20 Episode results for "word museum"

58. Joe Galliano Fills In The UKs Family Tree At The Queer Britain Museum

Museum Archipelago

13:45 min | 2 years ago

58. Joe Galliano Fills In The UKs Family Tree At The Queer Britain Museum

"Welcome to museum archipelago. I'm there. Museum archipelago guides you through the rocky landscape of museums. Each episode is never longer than fifteen minutes. So let's get started sons out the in order to launch museum. It's a long way too expensive process. Who knew this is Joe Galliano, one of the co founders of the queer Britain museum. Heller, Joe Kelley on on the co founder and CEO of quit Britain, the national LGBT key, plus museum of the UK Galliani came up with the idea for a national LGBTQ, plus museum in two thousand seventeen during the fiftieth anniversary of the partial decriminalization of homosexual acts in the UK an anniversary commemorated by cultural heritage institutions across the country. I felt slightly conflicted is none of us, ry was thrones man. None of us route was focused around criminality victim host some sort of Fe familiar, tropes, that we got rolled out. And we start talking about when we saw. Okay. Man lost via missile site itself. Harry tradition where we will we live in a world thankfully, whether it's a rich a wildly diverse says sexualities and gender identities on the left me slightly sad, and also the fact that it was very much hug him on a verse rate of annoyed didn't want did white another fifty years before it was FANG major happening again mobile spatial, we built something momentum of being gathered around that anniversary and that it didn't just fizzled away lost value. The emphasis on the anniversary of legislation could have come from the context of a long history of formal legal repression of male homosexuality in the UK going all the way back to the buggery act of fifteen thirty three. So we had the buggery act, which was introduced on the ice. On behalf of the ice, which was very much around male sexuality, mile same sex attraction police, invest and this'll kind of tight on the books in various fools until onto sixty seven Radi wedding was partially that was that was partially from allies Asian partially from allies, Asian the age of consent was set twenty one where was sixteen for everybody else that points as well prosecutions, absolutely rocketed. So as soon as that in some allowance for people who behave naturally, it was it becomes a big estate, be people with two legislation only focused on male homosexuality, which is, of course, telling it's interesting that those laws were always about men, women would same sex, desire or less rendered invisible in public life of the law. I think there's also if we're talking about muscle of legislation, I think there has been a. Prejudice, which is actually a lot of bounce patriarchy about mayo views of sexuality, and service to who has an active sexuality who has a passive sexuality, and thanks through a lot of portion of history women's sexuality was seen as inservice to male sexuality. And so what would you legislate against them, though? So some stories that when some of the late bills roles to quit Victoria, that they were too embarrassed to actually talk about as being as or anything like that how much truth there is, of course, the focus of queer Britain won't be legislation. But as Galliano's says the laws previously on the books and the increasing number of violent, homophobic, transphobic, attacks in the today have distorted, the country's understanding of itself, and tie directly into the mission of the museum. We've talked about a central. Hubs of be visible globally and within the mainstream will give a message that here is a here's a catalytic space. The will collect stories of his, his, his way of helping grasp on the standing of itself by giving quiz stories that route full place. So got means rice in place books within the culture and also a rightful place place can be there. The word queer has a complicated history. It was synonymous with strange or weird, and was a common slur from that LGBT people activists in the nineteen eighties. We the word and used it as an umbrella term for wide range of sexual orientations and gender identities today, queers and increasingly popular way to identify within the community, but as historical traumas persist, and as the word can still be found in hostile environments. It's important to note that not everyone's in agreement Gagliano, and the queer Britain museum, use the term. I'm as proud self identifier. And as an intentional move away from using the word gay and male homosexuality in general as standing for all identities. The plan is for queer Britain to have a physical space in London opening sometime in the next few years. Although the U K is full of museums. Some of which have queer artifacts and queer stories Gagliano is conscious of how backsliding can happen in legislation and culture, the laws and norms of today, can't guarantee that the future will look the same institutions like museums are part of maintaining today's momentum and can give people who have had their stories told by others a chance to narrate their own history. It was fun. It was fun movements within the museum communities mouth to quit. Spice has made sure of they all kind of announcement stories and say, how can we them three the main, the main of collections Ave, the yet note some places have got further than others? Some obdurate anything. But, but that's really, really good. What are some of the web site, volunteer life, down vote have via night Hughes convincing really good. Museums, LGBT, museums who is as a great, volunteer activists. I think possible fair is the multiple movement forward. Who's being the relies on activists curator's really excited volunteers in it. It doesn't take too many people to leave sites. Elza move somewhere else in the now that's loss. The other thing I think's really Paul is the, the such of Richard. Wildly diverse Sattar stories to tell that those museums never going to be able to tell those stories whereas what we have the ability to do is to create a catalytic, but what we call stories in. We can keep telling different stories which and change the exhibitions will and that'll DT he people convenient control of stories, as well. Whereas actor history, so often, it's been all the people who've told us stories and Galliano is acutely aware that stories are being lost every day about end as well. We also have a digital filled aural history project, which recalling, especially announced about making sure that we, we've got the story of people who with us now he can add into the archives become Paul that. That. H important really that we gather the story is now. Well, well, people can actually talk to us. So that's a really strong focus of the moment. Now in south of understanding where we're going to be headed with the archives. Always is this. We are designing a national survey of museums around the country today. This is the national archives. What we readings through this kind of a proper sentences. What is the nation's HOGAN material that we would think over's LGBT focused so that will mean then the it'll stairs? Where important gaps had we fill gaps. And that's gonna concave is a census wet. See what foes collecting activity when the museum is still an idea what the word museum means is still flexible, in addition to educational exhibits about queer history and culture. The proposed museum is also a place for people to upload their own stories and the whole project serves as an antidote to the psychological damage of transphobic and homophobic, attacks and depression. But museum interesting words net because it comes also. Pitch. And actually, we're talking about something very much broader than just a museum in official sense. They and currently show what a culture values and every good way of being able to understand where we all now on the somehow we go there, and then take them standard and use them to imagine a best of all possible futures new barrels questions who always haven't we get tweeted? We want to be retired should be different every time you come to new van when, when the physical space itself opened water will be looking at a series of Skype characters an awe rolling series of gastritis so that each each Tommy, bring somebody in like you know, what is the story that you need to tell what is the story that hasn't been told material that fit unexplored in other museums archives where able to shine a light phone. Sometimes it'll be about the abstract condition won't that position is going to be bringing line around the block. We can conditions of turning community stories that have been told, for example. So it could be everything from an I'm talking off the top of my head. Right. That's my, but that could be everything from what is Ellen Jones stage, costumes through to what is the quick Bangladeshi experience of bumming in the nineteen fifties, creating a new museum is no small task. But Galliano is ready for the challenge as he goes through the processes collecting and fundraising. He's also focused on building partnerships, his route to creating a robust institution begins with acknowledging that is a bigger project than just one person or one identity many challenges. If you want to look, they're all fascinating and exciting to step up to how do you carry the responsibility to make sure that something that there's such a, an needful? I'm such a desire. Sunny within the LGBT plus communities. How do you carry the weight of the responsibility of having said that you're going to do this, and making sure that you've delivered for those people, you know, or want to create an organization? But if I sat away from it, and the, we've got the right you know, the, there's another person that will be able to take over them, mantle. And so the, the organization isn't about one person but we've created a robust organization that will be able to deliver fabulously. It's my exciting thing I've ever worked till because it's the thing on most. I've never I've never worked for something. I feel so passionately is is important. I've never picked off a project which is. Brilliantly challenging, is this in it scale in the Skype in the scope of all the different stakeholders, the, we need to make sure sort of role close and doing the right things, and, and that we also keep a laser focus on the strategy to make sure that. This episode of museum archipelago is brought to you by the museum studies graduate program at the Corcoran, school of the arts and design at the George Washington University with a graduate degree in museum studies. You'll be quipped to respond to the evolving museum profession by engaging in hands on training in the heart of the nation's museum capital established in nineteen seventy six the program combines academic excellence with access to some of the most celebrated institutions in the world. Thanks to an exceptional faculty of practicing professionals this pioneering program is ranked among the top museum studies programs in the country. The programs affiliations with more than sixty museums and cultural organizations. Enable students to immerse themselves in world class venues as they learn from some of the nation's leading museum professionals students can concentrate in three areas. Collections management, audiences and interpretation or museum management to learn more. Visit go dot GW dot EDU Ford slash museum studies. This has been museum archipelago. You can find show notes and a full transcript of this episode at museum, archipelago dot com. If you liked this episode you can support the show and get some fun benefits like logo stickers and bonus podcast feed by joining club archipelago on patriarch special, thanks to club, archipelagos, newest member and host of the excellent museums in strange places podcast Hannah. Hetman thanks for listening and next time. Bring a friend.

Joe Galliano queer Britain museum museum archipelago Britain UK word museum Paul Joe Kelley UK Galliani Gagliano Heller Harry Gagliano London gastritis Victoria Sattar co founder Hetman
Invention Playlist 4: The Museum

Stuff To Blow Your Mind

1:10:48 hr | 1 year ago

Invention Playlist 4: The Museum

"Today's episode is brought to you by IBM. SMART is open open is smart. IBM's combining their industry expertise with open source leadership of Red Hat. Let's unlock the world's potential. Let's put smart to work. Learn more at IBM dot. com slash red hat. Guys? It's bobby bones I host the bobby bones show and I'm pretty much always sleep because I wake up with three o'clock in the morning a couple of hours later I. Get all my friends together, and we get into a room and we do a radio show. Wish you're alive. We tell our stories. We try to find as much in the world. Possibly can, and we looked through the news of the day that you'll care about also your favorite country artists are always stopping by to hang out and share their lives and music, too. So wake up with a bunch of my friends on ninety eight point seven W. MC in Washington DC or wherever the rotates you on the iheartradio, APP. Welcome to invention a production of iheartradio. Hey you welcome to invention. My name is Robert. Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick. Humans are are aware of history that's one of our key attributes, not always though well to varying degrees of history where we have awareness of of of what we think history to be. And not just our own personal history, but history across generations across decades centuries millennia. Even we're aware of what came before via oral traditions, and the evidence of the world around us, even as we continually change in anticipation of the future, and then of course we have recorded history as well, and we have a concept of history that goes beyond concern for literal accuracy about what happened in the past. I think about everything from ancient mythologies, in which people tried to construct a nut, not literally existent version of their past, but something to sort explain the present right all the way to the kinds of mythical histories that people still like to engage in today, ancient aliens. Aliens, and all you know, half the stuff on the history shows on TV. Oh, yeah, inevitably history ends up Melding with myth, and you really don't have to go too far back in history for that to take place for for the historical to become a legendary at least but one thing that makes clear I think is that we have a kind of craving for something that we think of as history that is not always exactly. The same thing is knowing what's actually true about what happened X. number of years ago right right so establishing from the get go that the human of contemplation of history is in itself. kind of a complex thing narrative. Becomes an essential part of it, but also a complicating aspect of it. Yeah, and then there are additional concerns were going to get into now. When we think about history, I mean one of the things about human use of history. Is that We're able to pass information on in a way. That doesn't depend on our genetics, so a big part of it is of course, just recorded history literature about the past but then. There are the artifacts of the past There are the artifacts of the the distant past the the the the relatively recent past artifacts of the present, and all these things find their way into museums. I mean think about what your feeling about ancient Egypt. Could only have read about it, and you never could have seen any of its artifacts, any of its art work never seen images of the pyramids, never seen the the ancient figurines, or the the sarcophagi or anything like that, there would be a necessary texture that would be lacking your understanding of what ancient Egypt was. Yeah, and of course today we have so many tools at our disposal to to say understand ancient to Egypt one thing we just. We have a better understanding than ever before There's still a lot of things we don't know. But we but you know we're at the The bleeding edge of our understanding, right. And and on top of that we have of photography. We have the motion picture. We have a computer imagery. We have a whole host of of inventions that have made it Ba- first of all made it easier for us to understand what agent Egypt was like animated easier for people around the world to get a grasp of it. You know you no longer have to travel to ancient Egypt. As certainly even the Romans did the ancient Romans. Concern in their contemplation of the even more ancient Egyptians in than likewise you don't even have to be able to travel to a museum that has artifacts that have been transported from Egypt. Obviously, you can go to websites. You can go to to books to films etcetera, but the museum is still important. Yeah, that's exactly right and it's important in multiple ways I mean I. I think about the two main ways. It's important number. One of course is just the preservation and display of artifacts to show you what they looked like D- give you the the physical representation, but then I think equally is important. Is the The contextualising literature of museum the? Material, because you know, this is often pointed out by archaeologists and historians that if we only form our picture of a civilization by looking at its physical artifacts, there is a necessary sort of filtering mechanism there. That's time you don't see. All the aspects of the civilization that are prone to that are biodegradable, or that are prone to erosion breaking down over time so I mean th. There's sort of this joke about like you know if you only look at. At the artifacts in you don't read about things or see sort of artists representations of what the other things surrounding these artifacts have been. You could assume that everyone in ancient Egypt Blake walked around in stone close. Yeah, yeah, or the on all the the art though the sculpture in ancient Rome was unpainted, and STOIC and grey I mean it's it's essentially, and this is since the the archaeological in the anthropological are very much like paleontology It's one thing to look at the even the reassembled and The reasonable fossils of prehistoric creature, but then there are all things that did not survive that we have to piece together. To get a full understanding of what this creature was or might have been the the skin across time that can all be represented in the interpretive. Materials of museums, those are I think equally as important as just like having an artifact in preserving it from being destroyed by the elements. Oh Yeah I. Think of the really great museums I've been to, and I've been fortunate enough to get to go to you know a number of them were fortunate enough to live in a city. That has some very nice museums as well. But but there's you know there's a journey you go on. There's there's a story that you involve yourself in when you're when you're in a really good museum or really good exhibit. And I think no part of that, too is appeals to spatial learning for instance free plug for the firm. Bank museum here in Atlanta. they have a section called the George Walk through time and It's something that you know kids that grew up in the Atlanta area. have been going to for a long time and they. They probably end up taking it for granted, but you know there's this spatial journey you do. Walk through time you get to Go through these exhibits. Get kind of a you know a walkthrough of geologic history and. I think that's important. Likewise with with fossils and and reproductions or even a taxidermy, animals, there is something about being in the physical presence of either this creature or representation of this creature that that just gives you a an understanding of it that you don't necessarily get from a book or description or a film, even some sort of You know a virtual reality. Reality Simulation Yeah. That's right, and it's later in the episode. We are going to discuss some of the the potential drawbacks and other considerations to have about museum culture, but there is certainly a thing that is great about museum culture like the the tendency to want to preserve history and explain it right, and to, and also can confusion an emotional connection like I believe it was The Field Museum I believe we were there together because we had work, thing up there, and they had a an exhibit about where they had an artistic recreation of slave ship, and you walk through the hold of it and it's. Just a really emotional experience you're just brings You know I. Remember brought tears to my eyes. You know and it was like that's an example where you know you. You have this positive. Emotional. Manipulation to a certain extent by the by the museum to give you this emotional connection with the topic and I think that's easy to overlook when we think of museums because you can think of them as as just a like a Stewart presentation of artifacts that are perhaps lacking in context or acquire a great deal of reading fine print but I think they could also help you feel the pain and passion of people who have been long dead. Dead Right the Civil Rights Museum here in Atlanta also does a tremendous job through all sorts of multimedia of the being able to like there's one exhibit where you sit at a lunch counter new wear headphones to give you the experience of of me being a protester during the civil rights movement in America and You know it's a little things like that often with with some technological bells and whistles, which if used wisely. Can just really enhance what the museum is able to do. from an educational perspective. That's exactly right and that that's a good point about how you know. Museums today are much more than just. The storage and display of physical artifacts. I mean That's the sort of Classic Museum tradition like you have an object of some kind of significance. It's a work of art or an artifact found through archaeology or something, or you know it's natural history. Maybe it's a mineral or a bone or something like that and that's on display, but yeah, meet. Museums are bigger. Bigger than that now they're. They're in many ways. A sort of just like place you can go to engage with some former other of history right, and it's in or even celebrate it. you know such as when I think of some of our our better science and technology museums. It's like a a space where we're. Science is celebrated and there will be various. Activities going on to aid in that celebration from say a science themed play room for very small children to say a lecture series for. For for older individuals who you know who need something more substantial so I guess the question is. How did human start doing this? Like? When did the museum tradition begin? When did we I? Get the idea that you would that? You would put objects on display or have some kind of a place where you go to interact with educational materials like this right and I think the important thing were kind of skipping over, and all this is that Is, that a museum ideally and in generally the better examples that we tend to focus on are going to be open for everyone, so it's it's not just a matter of oh well. This university has a store room of artifacts or this This institution or this family has some wonderful pieces set aside. You'd love it if you could see it. No Museum is ideally a place that is open to the people, and the and and everyone is allowed to venture in and engage with the materials in. Right, so just the kings of treasure room of like artifacts collected from the you know from the cities he has conquered is not necessarily a museum because that's just his treasurer. Right and you're probably not invited, and it's probably better if you're not invited, right. 'cause it sounds like a dangerous place to venture into. When I started thinking you just sort of casually at first you know about the history museums I started thinking okay well. What are what are some of the museums I've been to? And how old are they and if everyone else does his exercises well I think you'll know that most the museums that come to mind are products of fairly recent history. And, obviously this holds true for the various American museums I visited, and even the British Natural History Museum the product of colonial expansion. It wasn't founded to the nineteenth century. Spinoff from a private collection and in India and we still see that that kind of movement going on to this day. You know you'll have large private collections that are either. Donated to a museum or spun off into a museum of some sort, but the oldest museum in the UK for instance the Royal Armouries in the Tower of London only goes back to fifteen ninety, two with public access emerging in sixteen sixty. Now generally at this point in the podcast. You know we talk about what came before the invention. What was the world leading up to that? Yeah, and I think probably the best exercise here is to is to not to try and think of like a world without museums, but think of the various things in history, bitter sort of like a museum, but not quite. Okay so first of all. We already mentioned like the King's treasurer. Right you know you have conquered many cities in many great lands, and maybe you. You took artifacts that were sacred to them, and then you brought it back to your treasure room and you kept. It locked up for yourself right? Yeah, it's a it's it's. It's certainly kind of like a museum, but not a museum and we should note that many museums. I mean one of the the sort of like counterpoint to the good things about a museum. Is that lots of great museums around the world today do represent a kind of colonial plunder. Plunder yeah, I mean there there are cases. Where is their objects? You know in British museums that are of great historical significance, but that you know were taken from other peoples around the world by colonial invaders from Britain, exactly so the the king's horde of treasures is It's it's not a museum, but at the same time it does have a lot in common I think that's going to be the case with all of these not quite museum examples. We're going to touch on. It's also worth pointing out that you know. It's been long fashionable in in human culture to steal treasures art from defeated adversary. And stuff to blow your mind. We had a couple of episodes about the Ark of the Covenant and of course, the stories of the Ark of the covenant involved. It's It's captured by the Philistines. And later it's captured and possible destruction by the Babylonians and the Philistines were said to have displayed captured arc in their own temple of day on the of course. We don't what extent this you know. There's reality behind this, or if it's just a myth etcetera, but still it. It drives home that like this is. This is the sort of thing. People did. Yeah, they've. They were to crush or defeat an enemy sack. Their cities will, they would take their their treasured back with them right now. Another case from from history that that kind of lines up with a with a lot of the Roman triumphs in which the treasures our wealth into armies of defeated enemies were marched through the city as a spectacle. Along with captives, some to be executed or displayed further so sort of a you know an even more intense example of sort of the more brutal aspects of museum like enterprises seem to recall. There's a scene of this in Titus andronicus. I think like yeah. There's a parade of the enemies, yeah! They defeated some. Tribe or something right in the their their. Famous accounts of that you know, and it's kind of like this awful Roman circus of of Red Rather uncomfortable to contemplate in so we don't want that to be our museums, but then again like the shadow of that is cast over even our modern museums. And of course in the even just in the last century we we've seen museums rated looted or destroy. Do Military action so? You know it's sad. Like continues to be the case when when groups of people go to war with each other treasures, artifacts items of historical recall importance, often targeted. Now the. Rooms full of artifacts are not only created. When say you know a conquering power, colonial power or something goes and takes from one culture and brings back home. People also create rooms full of artifacts from their own culture. I mean a common way you find. This is in tombs, the ancient exactly yeah, I mean unstoppable your mind. Especially we've discussed the tombs of ancient Egypt, the tombs of ancient China in these are these are examples where generally it has to do. Do with some contemplation of the afterlife or the release the idea that if if there is not a world for the ruler to pass into, and presumably take their things, then there is still some continuation of identity in the body is preserved in there for the the items, the wealth, all the material possessions, or some form of them need to be preserved there as well. Yeah, so it's kind of like a museum, but for the most part you were not invited. To enter into. Generally it's it's looked down upon. Yeah, it's not designed to serve in educational purpose, and it doesn't have interpretive materials. These are these are just I'm taking all my loot to the next world. Right and I might put a crossbow trapped in there, just in case you try and enter. Now another we've. We touched a little bit. On, this already s bringing up day gone, but a temple is another example of something that's kind of like a museum, a place where valuable and important artifacts may will be displayed for lots of people, if not everybody, at least for a key demographic to view and admire, and in many cases, the works are instructional in nature, they no means of seeing the form of a god or Goddesses or visually contemplating complex theological concepts like one sees particularly in a Tibetan art. I mean I think about the relics in. The ways that many Catholic basilicas will preserve the remains of sainted person. Yeah, yeah, and then yeah, so we kind of have a dash of the tomb there as well right There's something kind of museum me about that is an object from the past. It's on display for people. Come look at Yeah Yeah. And then there's also the shrine which you know can be something like a tomb and something like temple, but of course they are secular versions of this as well throughout the world I. Mean You go to Washington DC? And you have all the you go to these monuments, these essentially shrines, and these often about celebrating something that is tied to cultural or national heritage, large-scale statues, as well public statues, gently a good example of this as well right now speaking of shrine, this actually brings us to the the word museum itself. So museum derives from the Latin. What is it to motion, which means precisely this shrine to the muses the news is of course where the Greek goddesses of creativity and inspiration Yeah, so so we got a shrine to the muses as the museum, and then that becomes the idea of the Museum I. Guess that Word is coined probably much later to refer to what we think of museums right for instance if we go back to the third century B C, we have the Museum of Alexandria to consider which included the famed library of Alexandria. It was founded by Ptolemy. I soter, and for being WHO's noted for being the traveling companion and Chronicler of Alexander the Great. However, the museum in this case was was not a display of collected art, but a center of learning that ultimately has more in common with a university that we might think of today. In, this was seemingly destroyed in the the late third century see! But yeah, more more like a university, a place of learning a place where learned individuals would gather and celebrate knowledge, so you've got a lot of stuff kind of like this in the ancient world, but nothing that is quite like we think of as a modern museum right? Yeah, I mean you can, you can make a case. Specific museums are museums in general. Reflect these attitudes to this day, but yeah none of these. You can't look at any of these like Oh, well, that was a museum. No, no, it was a treasure hoard. It was really more of a temple so indeed museums are. Would seem to be more of a modern venture right largely rooted in the private wonder rooms or cabinets of curiosities that individuals and families had, and then the more modern museums tend to emerge of these traditions. In fact, you know if you look around for some of the example, the oldest examples of things that are museums you know few that often pop to that often pop up our The the capitoline museums, the oldest public collections, the oldest public section of our in the world This is in Rome dates back to fourteen seventy, one and pope sixty four donation of art to the people of Rome. The Vatican museums have their origin as a public in public display in fifteen o six under Pope Julius Second. But and. We might be tempted to stop there and say oh well. Okay, well there you go this. These are some of the earliest examples but. There is a much older example we're going to get to in this episode. That certainly predates anything that happened with the Catholic Church. Yeah, and this one also I guess is a matter of interpretation because what you define as museum is going to be a matter of interpretation, but this is going to be the earliest known museum, according to Great British archaeologist Charles Leonard Woolley. So, we don't know for sure win. The first museum was created but I think there's a really reasonable chance that the earliest museum we know about was actually the first one in history so let's journey ancient Mesopotamia Oh. Yes, let's do art, so we're going to go to the city of or. Or was once one of the great power centers of Ancient Mesopotamia. and if you see photos of the sand covered ruins of the city in this partially restored Great Ziggurat today, it might be hard to imagine that this was once like a really thriving lush fertile settlement in the ancient world today it's situated in the desert of southern Iraq about sixteen kilometers, or about ten miles from the Euphrates River and and this is a rough measurement that calculated through Google maps. It's about two hundred and fifty kilometers, or about one hundred and fifty miles. From the coast of the Persian Gulf and I've read in some sources that in ancient times or was considered more like a coastal city that I guess the Persian Gulf stretched farther up in into where you would now have southern Mesopotamia now, but in ancient times the Euphrates river it took a different course, and it ran much closer to the city, making it this. This lush fertile place that was was a great place for a city, and it's a place considered the scale of history because archaeologists believe that it was founded. Founded sometime in the fourth Millennium B, C, e so that going to be many thousands of years old us in the early dynastic period of the ancient Sumerian kings, or became the capital of southern Mesopotamia, and this would have been around the fifth century BC so to do a history exercise. We've son sometimes done stuff to blow your mind before just reminding you like how much time elapsed through the part of the world history that we think of is ancient imagine you're Julius Caesar in your living in the first century B C e? To you as Julius Caesar, the Old Kingdom of Egypt, which was like two, thousand, five, hundred to twenty, one hundred BC and the ancient dynasties of Mesopotamia, which would have been roughly the same time those time periods were more ancient to you as Julius Caesar in the Roman Republic than the Roman Empire is to us, while ancient Rome is significantly more recent to us than those ancient civilizations were to the ancient Romans more time pass between Sargon of Cod, and Julius, Caesar, then between Julius, Caesar and US. That's the scale of the history of civilization. And when you think about all that time, all the relics, and remains all those thousands of years coming and going it, it's hard not to realize that the people who are ancient from our point of view, also had to contend with history and the idea of its memory, its preservation and its destruction, and so sometimes history, and even nostalgia can kind of feel like recently invented concept's. They're absolutely not and great. Example is a neo Babylonian king who lived in the city of so this is a man named Nab Anita's. Who was the last real king of Babylon for the city of Moore declined in power in the. The late sixth century BC in was subsequently abandoned over the following decades so Benito's seemed to have a great sense of historical consciousness. He wanted to revive elements of past civilizations from Mesopotamia. One of the things we were reading for. This episode is an article by a professor of languages and literature of Ancient Israel from Macquarie University named Louise's Pryke and one thing that she pointed out. Is that the the saints you king now Benitez is often referred to as sort of like ancient archaeologist king. You sort of like you know one of the first star Kiala. It's sort of an ancient Indiana Jones type here. With sort of except he's a king, so he's got all this power to command with the belongs in a museum mentality. Yes, so Yeah, so so this ancient sort of archaeologist king Apparently he conducted excavations to retrieve lost written records from past civilizations of the area it later in life he attempted to restore the ruins of the Great Sumerian Ziggurat of you're that had decayed significantly by his time. You may have seen representations. Their pictures of the CIGARROA in in what we're seeing is a restoration of NAB Anita says restoration of the Ziggurat, so it's been through several. It's got a few different coats of paint on it. And that alone brings up the question of You know the authenticity with artifacts. Like which one is the real Ziggurat I mean they're all the real Ziggurat, but but but then you know. We have to take into account like how much time has passed to, and then to what extent does that get in our way of understanding the past? Yeah, yeah, it's a weird question. to to think about if something was restored in the ancient world after having decayed for hundreds of years. Is that just as original to us? Basically I mean. I don't know it's it makes you question the concept of what an original artifact is. What is archaeological authenticity? And maybe it's some degree. to some degree undermines the concept of originality which might be a good thing and we'll talk about that later again, But yeah, so he attempted to restore the ruins of the Great Sumerian Ziggurat. If you're he and he was also, he was religious revivalist, bringing back coal traditions that had long fallen by the wayside, specifically, he revived the cult of the Moon God seen also known, and that's spelled like sin like s i. n Brown seen. Also, known to the ancient Sumerians as the God Nana now the city of or has a lot of cool stuff about it over over these you know thousands of years, but one of them is that it has some of the most awesome high priestesses in history. I know she's come up on stuff to blow your mind before, but one of my favorite ancient Mesopotamia figures is the earliest known named author of a work of poetry, so not necessarily the first poet ever, but the first poet in history whose name is recorded and known to us and this. This is the ancient Sumerian poet, princess and high priestess in head to WanNa Oh yes, yeah, in head-on lived in or long before Neb Anita she lived in. You're when it was an ancient Sumerian city stayed in the twenty third century, B C e under the rule of her father, Sargon of cod and in hidden WANNA was appointed by Sargon as the high priestess of the goddess in China and the Moon God Nana I. Know that might become a confusing the goddess in Nana and the Moon God is just Nana and then of course later became seen. So technically her title is in e, N, which is a position of religious and political significance, she refers to herself as the radiant in of Nana and one of her great works of poetry known to us is known to us. Today's the Exaltation of Nana, the Goddess which is amazing poem to look up. You should especially look a Trans Translation of the Exaltation of in Ana. If you're ever trying to like work, a real sense of defiance and righteous anger. Best stuff, Robert Wood. You indulge me to read a few lines a certainly okay. From the exultation of Nana. This is from the translation and the James, purchase tradition and nineteen seventy five. You have filled this land with venom like dragon vegetation ceases when you thunder like Ishbel Moore you bring down the flood from the mountain supreme one who are the Anonima of Heaven, and Earth, who reigned flaming fire over the land, who have been given the me by on Queen, who rides the beast okay. I got a one from later. My Queen all the unknown. Ah, the great gods fled before you like fluttering. Bats could not stand before you're awesome. Face could not approach. You're awesome for head. Who can soothe your angry heart? These hymns are amazing, and they are definitely worth looking up, so you've got in head one. She's this fireball-hurling poet the High Priestess of the Moon God Nana in or in the twenty third century BC, and then a little less than two millennia later. You've got this neo Babylonian King Nab Anita's ruling over you're looking back into the past, and in looking back into the past one thing he decides to do is revive the worship of the Moon God Nana, who they now. Now called scene and like Sargon Nab. Anita's appoints his daughter, the priestess of the Moon God consulting ancient records to get details about what this moon priestess role would be like what the the duties would be what the rituals would be This is the point that that Pryke makes in her article. Is this like looking back into the records? For what the priestesses role would be because he he's you know in a way? He's sort of trying to be the next Sargon. So who is the priestess? The daughter of NAB Anita's? who gets this role while her name is INA Goldie Nano also known as Belshaw. And unfortunately we know far too little about who a Goldie Nana was, but we do know that. In addition to a religious role inequality, Nana is recorded as having been the administrator of a school for young priestesses but so inequality Nana was more than just an educator. She was more than just princess more than just a high priestess of the moon. It's here that we come to the first museum known history, because it appears that a Goldie Nano was its curator, and this is This is fascinating to behold because we have not only you know. The the case for the museum, but for a strong case for you know why it was created what purpose it served the ruler of the day. Yeah, exactly so maybe we should take a break, and then we come back. We can have a look at this museum. This episode is brought to you by IBM Today. The world looks pretty different, but all ready new problems are being with new thinking. Researchers are using supercomputers to discover treatments faster. Retailers are turning to the cloud to restock shelves more quickly. Teachers are working with ai to rethink the classroom. It's not everything, but it's a start. Let's put smart to work. See how IBM is helping at IBM dot com slash comedy nineteen that when Lexus opened stores, one of the first dealers made an important observation. Lexus wasn't in the car business. They were in the people, business. Above all they needed to be helpful, respectful and compassionate. To treat people like guests. It's what they agreed to do from the start. And rededicate themselves to every take. Today how we all interact with each other is changing, but who we are isn't in a time of uncertainty. We are all looking for new ways to be human to connect to reach out. To respond. Now when we need each other, most lexus will continue to do what they've always done. Take care of people first then the rest will follow. visit. LEXUS DOT com slash people I to find out what Lexus is doing for their guest, their employees and for our communities. Are Back we're discussing the history of the museum as we know and understand today, and we're looking at what may well be the earliest example of something that we can reasonably call a museum. Yeah, and so we should look again at what would be the criteria that right. How would we know if we'd found the first museum in History because as we've discussed before just having a treasure room. Next isn't really museum writing so museum as understood, today has two main parts right. He's got preservation and interpretation. You've got objects or artifacts that are preserved and kept on display. This preservation aspect, and those objects are explained in contextualized by educational interpretation materials. You know like the little written placards you find next to objects at a museum exhibit today, and I think it's also important that it must be cleared that this institution has some sort of public educational purpose, right? It can't just be like a private thing this just for you, right? It's about it's about sharing this information with the world and we see that in our. Our best examples of museums. Say like a really good science and Technology Museum is about. Sharing the the passing on the torch of of of of scientific inquiry, and and celebrating what it can do, for human civilization, and then on the other hand you have say Hey creationist museum, which takes a different approach but he's ultimately trying to do the same thing right it is it is it is using? Artifacts were supposed artifacts. I mean sometimes choosing actual the. Remnants of the past, but then using it to push in a different narrative I guess that's true, like even if we judge the educational purpose of a museum to be misguided and leading to incorrect conclusions I. Mean I guess still if the goal of it is, is educational, according to the people who made it. Even if that education is, you know, maybe look, make making your king look good or something right? You could consider that a form of a museum right I mean, and certainly even are better. Museums have had to evolve with the Times right to had to change the way that they present particularly things from a cultural even historical standpoint to. To either keep up with with changing norms to correct past. Errors and then you know, and also to to take into account new information about the the the cultures and time periods that are presented well. Yeah, that's exactly right. I mean one great thing about modern museums is. They can often be away. to see into other cultures that you might not encounter firsthand, but you know a lot of these exhibits. The museum has been around a long time. They may have initially been established for the kind of condescending colonialist attitude or That sort of shows other cultures in a way that might not be accurate. Maybe that looks down on them. That doesn't regard them as equally valid cultures. Right I mean I. It's important to note that like the the the basic idea, the museum. You know it can be skewed for different purposes, I mean there's a difference between the new museum in Philadelphia and say a you know a circus sideshow you know just like a display of preserved human remains with either no contact or faulty context regarding what those jars contain. There's a difference between an actual museum about say human evolution and the bigfoot museum that we have in north Georgia. which is a wonderful museum but it? It has a definite agenda different narrative that it's pushing, and hopefully a lot of people that go there are engaging with sort of tongue in cheek, or people are able to suspend disbelief enjoyable, but but yeah, it's it's a slightly different extra exercise or any roadside attraction from decades past where where something may be on display. That is You know, maybe you. You know lacking in terms of its scientific or historical believability. Right so I. Guess I'm going to try to say is. We can often think of a museum as a medium as opposed to like message right? Okay so to get back to INA Goldie. Nana throughout the Nineteen Twenties Thirties. There was a British archaeologist named Sir Charles. Leonard Woolley who worked on. On the excavation of the ancient city, of Moore and in nineteen twenty, five Willie and his colleagues were excavating a Babylonian Palace within the ancient city, and they began to uncover a very strange clustering of artifacts within this palace were artifacts from different geographical locations in different periods of ancient history, all neatly arranged together in this one building, and it appears that this collection was created. Created sometime around the year five thirty B C, E and now the earliest artifacts found, went back almost to the time of Sargon and in head, WanNa they went back about twenty, one hundred BC, e and again I was trying to find a point of comparison for historical scale, so if these people living in the sixth century BC had artifacts from twenty one hundred, BC. Like us today, having artifacts from the personal effects of Attila the Hun who invading the western Roman Empire in the middle of the fifth century CE. That's the the approximate time difference us. What was among this collection of things? Willy discovered here in this in this ancient site. One thing was the partially restored remains of a statue of the Great King Shoghi of Moore, who ruled in the first century BC and you might remember Shoghi came up in are upset about walls, actually because Shoghi is credited with creating one of the first known defensive boundary walls in history, the wall he built was known as the wall of the land or the emirate wall, or the keeper at Bay of the nomads is a little on the nose. it. It was it was designed to defend Sumer against tax from no nomadic called the rights who lived to the north of them, and she'll wall is thought to have been more than one hundred miles long stretching between the Tigris and the Euphrates River and in this this other episode. I quoted from an ancient Sumerian home, which mentioned it by recalling with Nostalgia Jay. How quote, the wall of Inaugu extended out over the desert like a bird net. Comparing it to this thing, they used to actually catch birds, and so in this poem, the Speaker is lamenting how you know. There were better days back when their civilization had been more powerful and more glorious, and it was the time of Shoghi in this wall. Bit in reality, of course, these walls did not accomplish the goal of protecting soumare, which fell to invasions from the emerites the MITES. It was not an effective strategy and And in his own autobiographical writings on the excavation of you're Charles Leonard. Woolley notes something interesting about the statue of Shoghi, so he describes it quote as a fragment of Dea, right statue, a bit of the arm of a human figure, on which was an inscription, and the fragment had been carefully trimmed so as to make it look neat and preserve the writing. So there appears to be evidence here of an ancient preservation work to keep the carvings on the statue from being damaged to keep them legible. also among the things found here was an ancient cast site boundary stone, a type of artifact known as a Khuda ru now Kuta ru or stone boundary markers used in ancient Mesopotamia and these things are pretty cool. It's kind of like if you could have a stone pillar with a written copy of the DVD, or House, noting how you got the land, and which notaries witnessed the sale of the property, and also possibly containing carvings of gods, celestial objects and monsters and definitely curses. Full of curses, the cooter in in Goldie non as museum, is from around fourteen hundred BC. Willie noted that it contained an awesome curse against anybody who displaced her destroyed the stone. So what are these curses like right? I was looking at an example of a Kuru excavated from. Tell Abu Haba so it's not the same couture, but it's curse warning. tells about what you cannot do or face the curse. So it, says win so ever in days to come among future men, an agent or a governor, or a ruler or anyone, or the son of anyone at all who shall rise up, and in respective that field shell make a claim or cause a claim to be made, or she'll say this field was not presented, or she'll change that stone from its place or show cast it into the water, or into the fire, or shall break it with stone, or because of these curses shall fear, and she'll cause a fool or a deaf man or a blind man to take it up, and said it in a place where it cannot be seen. Seen that man shall take away the field may on new the father of the gods curse him as a foe. This covers so much I'm about to get into exactly what the curse is and the second, but I love this. It's like okay. You cannot erase the record of WHO owns this field. You can't throw it in the water. He can't throw it in the fire. You can't get a blind person who can't read these mornings to pick it up for you and do it for you now. One wonders if they were say this, was simply you. They were just thinking of potential loopholes or had been a loophole that was employed right. There was there was a blind individual who often employed to muck around with people's property rights. Right? Okay, so here's what happens. If you violate this this boundary marker you, you try to move it or something Here's a little bit of the cursed play The the first line has some illusions, so it's it's mad. The Lord of the crops. been worn off, but after that it gets going may never gall in his destruction, not spare. His offspring may shoot a Muna and shoe. Maleeha pronounce evil against him male, the Gods whose names are mentioned on the stone, curse him with a curse that cannot be loosened. May they command that he not live a single day may not let him, nor his name, nor his seed endure days of drought years of famine. May they assign for his lot before God King Lord and Prince May his whining tenuous, and may he come to an evil end? That's a pretty stiff curse. Yeah, okay May as whining. Be Continuous so to. To quote from Charles Leonard, Willy's own account of the other objects they discovered apart from these two just explained a quote, then came a clay foundation cone of Lorsa king about seventeen hundred, BC, then a few clay tablets of about the same date, and a large votive stonemasons head, which was Unin inscribed, but may well have been more ancient by five hundred years. What rethink here were half a dozen diverse objects found lying on an unbroken brick pavement of the sixth century BC yet. The newest was seven hundred years older than the pavement, and the earliest, perhaps sixteen hundred, and a woolly writes that the evidence made it pretty clear. That it was impossible that all these different artifacts would have ended up arranged together like this by accident. And he notes again the trimming of the inscription on the Shoghi statue, which seems like a deliberate act of preservation. And then finally came the answer of what what they were looking for. A woolly writes quote. Then we found the key a little way apart last small drum shaped clay object, which were four columns of writing the first three columns were in the old Sumerian language, and the contents of one at least were familiar to us, for we had founded on bricks of bore sin, King of or in two two zero BC, and the other two were fairly similar. The fourth column was in late Semitic speech. These it said are copies of bricks found in the remains. Remains of you're the work of bore seen King of you're which, while searching for the ground plan of the Temple of the governor of or found, and I saw an road out for the marvel of the holders and Willy notes that the scribe who wrote this inscription overestimated the accuracy of the copies of these bricks, but nevertheless willie recognize the significance of this find quote. The Room was a museum of local antiquities maintained by the Princess Belle Shelton, and our which remember is another name for inequality Nana who took after her father a keen Kiala? And in the collection was this clay drum? The earliest museum label known drawn up one hundred years before, and kept presumably together with the original bricks as a record of the first scientific excavations, at Moore, that's incredible to to just you know, imagine these truly ancient people you know someone walking into this room, seeing a curious old object, and then potentially reading an inscription to see what it was now it factors into their own history. Yeah, yeah, it's amazing and the fact I think it's interesting that they've got. They've got copies also notes about copies of things which would be like the way that many museums today have not necessarily earn original artifact, but a reproduction or say cast of a fossil that might be the original thing the of course you know the funny irony is that many fossils are not even the original bones. Essentially geologic castings created by you know without the aid of human intervention. Yeah, and and I think that's an interesting thing. You know that we feel like we need to make this distinction. Of course it's like well. You could have the real thing here. You can have a reproduction of it, and somehow there's this sense among many people I think and I I admit that I sometimes feel this probably shouldn't, but I feel like the reproduction is not as good. Wouldn't it be better if the real original thing were there and I? I WanNa break myself this thinking by the end of the episode. Yeah. 'cause I found myself caught myself thinking a similar thing about restored works before you know like if you see. You know pictures of what the Sistine Chapel looked like before and after restoration one might be tempted to say well, it was. It looked better before they restored it. which is kind of a silly thing to to to think or to say Attached to like the sort of the historical wear and tear on a thing. We get attracted to you know to the ruins, and then we have at least mixed feelings about restoration efforts I. Mean we've we've talked about before. believably about the Parthenon the Parthenon is a great example of this, because with the original Parthenon, you have various waves of destruction. addition and then considered reconstruction and their voices on different sides. You know should, we should restore the actual parthenon to its former glory. And then if we do restored to a former glory, which former glory! And then likewise we have the Parthenon, in Nashville Tennessee, which is a restoration in a model, essentially a scale model of the Parthenon. The you could walk into and and look around. I think that's the right model. I don't I don't think they need to go messing around with the ruins of the Parthenon, but I like the idea of just like building other. Parthenon's elsewhere right but. But then also, there's simply the the effort in preserving your because all, so you don't want to say if you have say the ruined remains of some some old building that is important, you also don't want it to continue to erode, or should you be open for the to continue to erode? I mean it's it's a tough western. Yeah, yeah, and there's a we were. Were talking about this before we came in on the episode, but you know I think in a way there's almost kind of a a tacit belief in sympathetic magic that makes us like the idea of the original artifact whatever it was. We like the idea that like you know. The actual artist touched this yeah, or the actual person in history war, this and a reproduction feels. Feels less powerful to us because we buy into some strange form of sympathetic magic, where it just doesn't have that magic spark if it wasn't the real thing from the time that somebody actually touched yogi WANNA. Touch it sometimes you, WanNa Lick it and and you're not allowed to, but there's no reason that you have a lot of the besuited individuals standing around ready to. Start pointing a little too close to a particular work of art or posing for yourself, just a little bit too close to it because we we do want to interact with you know we don't always. We WanNA stand in its presence, but yeah, we also kind of want to actually physically make. With it, yeah, so concerning in a golden on as Museum of course as we know, we've been talking about, this would not be the only place where powerful people in the ancient world had collected relics of days past you know many kings of the ancient world would have understood old relics and artifacts to be a sort of John, Rav. Treasured collected display your wealth and power, but what makes these artifacts in in a golden on as museum really seem like exhibits in the museum is is what Willie notes that they were accompanied by carvings that bore interpretive data explanations of what you were looking at, and the fact that it was associated with INA Goldie. Nana School for Young priestesses. That, this building was a museum that was likely created with an educational purpose. The students who'd go in and look at this stuff and read about what it was. Yeah, and say like this is our history. This is our heritage. Look at these objects and learn just another passage I came across. There's another book where Willie discussed in a golden on his museum and commented quote that there should be collection altogether in accordance with the antiquarian piety of the age, and especially of the ruler Nab Anita's who, with whose daughter this building is probably to be associated so he's he's saying that in this age in ancient Mesopotamia the in the city of or and this would go along with everything we know about NAB Anita's trying to restore the Ziggurat and doing archaeological excavations, and all this that there was this spirit of nostalgia. You know that they were sort of unusually obsessed with the past for for people of their time in place and I wonder what what triggers that you know what causes a civilisation to suddenly take intense interest in preserving in reconstructing the past like Nab Anita send inequality Nana why I wonder if a lot of does come down to sort of like a spatial understanding of things, a need to be in the environment of the past. You know to fully comprehend it on on almost animal level. I mean part a one thing I think that's attempting. Historical interpretation is that we know that the dynasty that created the museum wouldn't last leg as I mentioned so. This museum was created around the year five thirty B. C E and the city of you're went into decline after the reign of NAB Anita's and was abandoned. Almost completely you know sometime in the following decades or centuries this is probably because of local climate change where the you frady's river The bed shifted and moved farther away from the city, and that combined with drought to basically turn this once. Fertile Power Center? Center into this abandoned desert, ghosts city, and so it's tempting I. Think for us to look at that and say Oh, you know. This was the end of a long civilization in this area Maybe maybe they since they were at the end, and this is what made them. You know so nostalgic for the past and WANNA create this first museum by this greatest hits album right, but I you know I don't know if that really makes sense because I don't know if they thought they were living toward the end of their dynasty. You know that's right. I mean I'm a museum doesn't? We can easily fall into the line of thinking that a museum of his place of dead things a things you know things. That are no longer around. That are important only historically, but we have plenty of museums today that are about you know celebrating things that are alive so rating movements that are still happening in are still unfinished. We of works of art that you know. We talked about this stuff to blame you. Blow your mind that are that are have been left unfinished either. Through the accident, accidents of human life or intentionally to make some statement about about the nature of human progress. So I think it's. It's reasonable to think that some of those elements would very much have been in play in ancient times. You know to to realize that like the I mean because we talked about it. Being uses an educational space, so it would have been you know not. Have, a would have had a spirit of. Of Renewal to it I would imagine an educational place in place of religious significance, so was part of a school. It was part of a golden on as school for priestesses right so yea, it makes you wonder about the interplay of the religious impulse, also with the desire to preserve and display elements of history. Yeah, all right well on that note. We're GONNA. Take a quick break. And when we come back, we will discuss the legacy of the museum and in some of the some current ideas about where we stand in regards to the museum. This episode is brought to you by IBM Today the world looks pretty different, but already new problems are being met with new thinking. Researchers are using supercomputers to discover treatments faster. Retailers are turning to the cloud to restock shelves more quickly. Teachers are working with a I to rethink the classroom. It's not everything, but it's a start. Let's put smart to work. See how IBM is helping at IBM dot com slash covid nineteen. iheartradio and state farm know that the graduation stages the first of many and while grads may not be walking across one this year. They can get the send off. They've always dreamed of with our new podcast commencement, featuring inspiring speeches from the biggest names like John Legend. I'm honored to have the chance to speak to to share in this special moment Katie couric. You'll need some very important life skills to move forward. Perhaps the most important one is resilience. Chelsea handler to do things that scare you if you can embrace the unknown. Unknown fully jump into what life has to offer you. 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Stuff like that right into. Do do what needs to be done to honor. Say you know living thriving cultures that their artifacts represent. Yeah, so they're important questions to ask about what museums represent today in how you know what role they play for us culturally, and maybe how they could be made better. Yeah, and it a lot of it comes down to questions of ownership, not only who owns a particular item you know. Does this piece of this is painting belong to a certain family, or does it belong to this museum now? Does it belong to the nation in which the museum? Is housed like he goes beyond that it gets into considerations like who owns the past and who owns the story of the past. so we were looking at a an excellent D. magazine essay on the subject titled Who Really Owns The past by American archaeologist. Michael Press and I I. Recommend Everyone. Check this out, but some of the the key points that Michael makes are really. Worth thinking about here, he points out that are currently thinking about heritage begin to take shape in the nineteenth century, both in the West, and in the Middle East We Westerners were pretty quick to disregard local emerging laws, concerning artifacts you know considering them an attempt by wrote local rulers to Lord over the dead and interfere with what they seem. To, see as this sort of natural migration of artifacts to Europe, this interpretation of. On one side of the locals might be saying well. We need some laws in place to keep these artifacts from wandering outside of our borders, and then the colonial impulse was more. Oh, no, these belong to the world where so this is everybody's heritage for the world happens to be in London the world's back in London. We're going to take right back there and also antique laws as we know them today. It really emerged out of the Post. World War. Two periods so international agreements such as the nineteen fifty four. Hey, convention and the nineteen, Seventy nine hundred seventy two UNESCO conventions. It all placed a new emphasis on national sovereignty in our national heritage, but still the question remains who owns the artifacts of the past in who owns the story of the past. Because again you can think of the museum as a medium for a story. You know there's in we. We often forget this when we really place a lot of trust in say. The met or the Natural History Museum. You know I think generally trust these institutions for good reason. To present the best interpretation of the history or the science or the or the artistry that is on display. And we see again. Various museums make an effort to change their displays to honor an evolving understanding of the past or to honor living cultures. They depict etcetera. But press points out that when nations and nationwide nation states themselves only artifacts own the past. They can use these treasures to push a nationalistic agenda. So Michael Press writes quote. Governments increasingly looked to remains of the distant past to bolster national identities and a sense of greatness, or to marginalize disfavored groups Saddam Hussein used the ruins of Babylon to spread ideas of Iraq's greatness as well as his own, even portraying himself as a modern nebuchadnezzar, China's leadership has used archaeology project national greatness onto the distance semi-legendary past today. India's prime minister. Narendra Modi's Hindu nationalist government has worked use archaeology to prove that modern Hindus. Hindus can trace their descent from the earliest inhabitants of India. So you put this sort of thing in place, and you know you, he says you actually invite looting. You actually invite that damage. Because history is made to serve the engines of nationalism, or or have you, alluding becomes a potential active resistance and we've actually seen this. He points out. In example one example would be the destruction of monuments in Syria and Iraq by ISIS. And then on the other side of the equation, you know the whole colonial movement was steeped in arguments that these were items of global heritage, and and this is used to justify removing artifacts from native Lance. Yes, so I mean I. I like the idea that there are things that are the common heritage of humankind for history. But what does that actually mean in practice Ryan you say okay in. In practice, it's the common heritage of humankind's let means we'll take it somewhere in Europe, or the United States right because yes, when you, when you look at the the movements of culture when you look at the even the early migrations of human beings, you can make a case to say well the artifacts of the part of my culture as well. They're part of my heritage as well but. It's another thing to say that means that they need to be relocated to to your city. You know your country or that you know your nation has can lay claim to it, but then again is points out in this article. It gets. This is still a very complicated scenario you bring in. You know the fact that you have you know in our day and age you have people from various nations that are spread over the world, and and so it's not always as simple as this cultural group stole this cultural groups belongings. Though sometimes it is well. Yeah, I mean it's weird because it's hard to say who owns the past, but then again something definitely feels wrong. About just say colonial power taking artifacts from one country, and then taking them back to the homeboy -absolutely. Another side of the city points out that I hadn't really thought about is that in some cases you have designated UNESCO World Heritage sites that you know these are places where the it is a place of of and very important historical significance the needs to be preserved, but then also ends up being kind of thing. People want to visit, and that can actually impact local communities, forcing the removal of people, either to you know to to allow the study of this location, or to make way for development associated with the sites new historical significance, so yeah and And then you throw various other. Political factors into the mix, and it gets even more complicated points out that in the case of Syria multiple parties have used heritage as a weapon of war, obviously Isis but also. Brings up Russia and even the United States using Celebrations of of archaeological materials as being sort of part of the overall messaging associated with whatever side of the political scenario the player happens to be on. He does drive home that it is. It's messy. All these different factors playing into the. Past and these artifacts of the past, but he points out that cultural heritage experts proposed several ideas for a better future of museums, so just to to run through them really quickly. the three main points are number one give more control to local communities, not national interests, the sort of on the ground with people rather than with national governments right the second one is to reduce the importance of the original which we talked about a little earlier. This this one is a tricky one to to think about and one of the reasons is that he points out that you know in There's this high western priority placed on the original item, the original work of art original carvings et Cetera, but he says we you know we have long seen a different approach in eastern cultures, which were more about just you know preserving and recreating the thing itself the work itself like it was more about the the message in the work. But it, but it it. It is someone who loves museums. You know it is hard to get past that. There is something really awesome about standing in the presence of the actual work or the you know? The actual remains that have been transported here but then when you take into account all these other factors we've been discussing you do have to ask yourself well. Would it really make it? You know any less impressive if it was just a really a fantastic recreation of a particular work or a particular carving I. Mean certainly when you get into sculptures, it's a it's a lot easier guy. I can easily see that being the case like do I. Really need the actual. Let's say it's The statue of David Do I need that transported over here to look at or what if it was just a? A perfect copy I think I would be happy with that and if I'm happy with that wouldn't that apply to various other museum artifacts as well especially, if the context is really good, if the narrative is really good, yeah, I mean I. think that is something that you know people who are the audiences for museums should try to adapt themselves to be more. More satisfied with high quality re-creations and you know casts, and you know it. All kinds of things don't necessarily involve having the physical original there yeah, especially now when you can have all this additional information, you can have pictures of the original videos of the original additional technological interactions with with media about the original piece, but then you also have this physical. Recreation you can enjoy as well. Yeah exactly Oh. The third point that he makes though is that we should rethink the idea of heritage as property at all that we should have something along the lines of access heritage again in a very interesting, but also. Challenging Way to think about it. Like forces us to turn some of our experiences with museums on their head. But but I could. I could see that working though. Because certainly some of the the trickier parts of all of this is just the treating heritage as something that is, that is property and their property rights tied up with it and say a museum just cannot return particular artifact to the the the culture it came from because of some sort of a property issue. Oh, I hadn't even thought about that, but yes I guess sometimes things are probably on loan to museums from people who supposedly own them right, but like. Why does that person own them? It might be because you know somebody way down the line stole it and then left Yahoo. Them gave it to you know yeah, or they just acquired it, if not through like like outright obvious. Military or colonial treachery than perhaps through. Economic pressures that would not have been there. Had it not been for the colonial influence to begin with? Yeah, this is a difficult issue. The definitely worth giving thought to especially if you're a person who frequents museum and really we only, we only scratched the surface here. On this issue because they're also additional layers to consider with. With the archaeological artifacts such as What Lynn Mesko calls negative heritage. What do you do about a an? Historical artifact that's tied up with. You know a lot of negative aspects of society you know. Maybe it's tied to say you know. Racist ideologies are something. What do you do with those artifacts? How do you treat them? I think one possible answer there is that you you have you make sure that the context of the museum that is presenting them is taking all that into account. But anyway as as as Michael Dry something like this is still another complicated area whom we We try to to got exactly where the museum is headed in the future. All Right? No, we're going to close this one out, but obviously we'd love to hear from everybody we know y'all have favorite museums. You would like to mention on the two to. Perhaps we've been to them as well or maybe you'll point out some new smaller museum that we've never even heard of it and we'll be able to put that on our radar for a future travels. As always if you want to support the show, the best thing you can do is rate and review us. Wherever you have the power to do, so make sure you have subscribed to invention as well and this. Tell your friends about it the next time somebody's asking around. Hey, what are some good podcast? Listen to throw her name into the mix. Ultimately it's that it's that word of mouth that really makes all the difference huge. Thanks as always to are excellent audio, producer, Tory Harrison and our guest producer today Maya Coal. If you'd like to get in touch with us with feedback on this episode or any other suggested topic for the future to let us know about your favorite museum, or just to say hi, you can email us that contact at invention pod dot com. Invention is production of iheartradio for more podcasts from my heart. Radio is iheartradio APP apple, podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Classic Twenty Twenty. We know things have been kind of out of the ordinary lately. You're not going to get a graduation ceremony. So iheartradio found some people to write commencement speeches just for John Legend. He's Hillary. Clinton then to over twenty of your favorites from Dj. College to coach K. Abby Wambach to halls listen to iheartradio new podcast commencement speeches dropped may fifteenth, iheartradio and Sunday may seventeenth across all IHEART radio stations. Draw to you buy Doritos taking the class of twenty twenty Valedictorians to another.

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Working at MoMA: How Does a Collection Specialist Do His Job?

Slate's Working

44:36 min | 2 years ago

Working at MoMA: How Does a Collection Specialist Do His Job?

"The. You're listening to working the show about what people do all day. I'm your host, Jordan Weisman. And I am very excited to welcome you to a brand new season for the next ten episodes. We're going inside the museum of modern art, New York City. Now, I love museums. I only museum nut when I'm on vacation. I'll spend hours and hours and hours dragging my wife through museums wherever we are in the world, but the same time they are also sort of scariest institutions to me. I mean, how does a one hundred million dollar piece of canvas up on wall? So that bunch of people can just come by take selfies with every day. I I don't know. I don't know how that he's canvas ends up there, or at least I didn't really have an idea until I started doing these interviews with the folks at MoMA the museum very generously set me up with curator's exhibition designers and a security guard. So I could get a sense of how the ones and just how it all. Comes together. This is going to be a series for people who like are who'd like museums who you know, you go to the metropolitan near you. Go to Leuven, you're on vacation, Paris, you go to MoMA to go look at starry night, but aren't necessarily an obsessive or an expert. You're not reading art forum checking out auction results. This is a series for people who like looking at paintings and photography some of the people we talked to like, I said are going to have jobs. They you definitely think of when you hear the word museum like ureter or a security guard, and some of them are going to be people with jobs you've never ever heard of like Paul Galloway who I am talking. To today's episode all is a collection specialist at MoMA. What is it collection specialist? I'm not gonna spend too much time explaining that. I'm gonna let him explain that. But for now just sort of think of him as the nerve center as department we're going to go from there. I hope you enjoy. What's your name? And what do you do? My name is Paul Galloway. I'm the collection specialist for the department of architecture and design at MoMA. So before I ask you describe that a little bit more detail. What that actually means? I just want to tell listeners that polish shown up here with a long list of talking points. What's involved in his job? Which is actually the first time. I've ever seen a guest do this before is ever walked in. Just like, okay. I've got seven points about how I'm going to describe my work, which tells me either something about your personality or something about the job you do. So what exactly is a collection specialist? Right. So in my defense. It's also just sort of when people ask me what my job is. I often go a little glassy eyed and try to remember what do I do because it's can feel like really opposite things happening one minute after the other, but a collection specialist at MoMA. Very broadly. Speaking is the knowledge keeper they access point the kind of overall steward of the knowledge and information about the collection. So in architecture, and design my responsibility includes everything from acquisitions conservation cataloguing support exhibition research, framing loans research lecture, I serve on juries. And so it can it can really feel like those duties are really all over the place. Which is why I have to write them down. Working is brought to you by American Express. If you wanna business funding is essential. American Express offers eligible card members, flexible funding solutions business loans, the powerful backing of American Express don't do business without it. Visit American Express dot com slash business or details. We have a favorite ass. Our partner is conducting a survey and would be grateful for your help in answering a few questions, it will take less than ten minutes of your time and participation helps support our advertisers. Please go to slate. Listening dot com to complete the survey. Now, thank you. So I feel like a lot of this episode might turn into me trying to find a metaphor to kind of wrap all that together even possible. But so what you're describing their sounds a little bit like a little bit of like a database like human database sort of. And also, you're like end, you're the caretaker you're the gardener for the for this collection to think of myself as a shaman a shaman. Okay. I'll get a little bit of a shaman. Okay. So I think in order to understand job. I have to know what this collection is right. You know, most museums don't have an architecture and design department. So what is that? Yeah. There's there's only a handful in the United States that have them. Ours is the largest of these collections, and it's pretty broad so architecture is a broad field and design is an extremely broad field. So we have everything from drawings architecture for architecture. We have everything but the building itself, right? So we have drawings photographs models digital files. Cad drawings for design. It gets even more kind of all over the place. We have a helicopter. We have cars. We have an ice cream cone where you have graphic design posters printed. Ephemera? We've got software works video games. We've got the original doklam oh emoji. We've even got performance work to works performance architecture performance architecture. Yeah. There were multiple points in that list where I was like, wait what? Ice cream cone. We have an ice cream cone in storage. Just like it is we smushed one a few years ago. So I had to go and replace it. Luckily, Ben and Jerry's at Rockfeller center makes a really good ice cone. So I went down there and I purchased one. And I really wanted to change the credit line for the work gift of Paul Galloway because I spent fifty cents on this is fun fact, if you go to Ben and Jerry's you can ask for just the ice cream cone, and they will sell it to you for fifty cents important information. If you're starting if you or if you just are really into the cone and not the ice cream. Okay. So you've got everything from digital files to models of buildings to said emoji. Yeah. Including the original emoji that were released in nineteen ninety nine in Japan. And that's that a digital file is that like drying? What is that? It's digital files essentially, the image files that were used on the the cell phones at the time interesting. And so when you're storing that as a museum, you're not storing the only copy of those files. In the world, you're storing or are you we're storing a copy it's the same way if you have a photo collection. Odds are you don't have the only copy of a photo by Man Ray, or there's other copies of but you're storing your copy in your committing to taking care of that copy, everybody else's copies could get blown up. And then you are the source of record for these things. And then you, but then you're also storing cars as well in your cars, motorcycles, bicycles surfboards. We're does all this storage happen for like is there just a giant warehouse somewhere where where do you keep it all and is it altogether? Yeah. It's all together. The museum has storage onsite at the museum of modern, art and Manhattan. We also have a facility out in Long Island city slash Sunnyside, depending on where you draw the border that's called MoMA queens during the expansion in the early two thousand relocated the museum while they were expanding ten Gucci expansion. So that facility was MoMA for a couple of years and that. It has now been re purposed as exclusively storage and research facility. And I guess this is kind of the context that anybody would need to understand this. But you know, what you see them using? It's a little bit of an iceberg. Right. You're only seeing a little piece of the collection. That's there. Yes. And the rest of it is in these storage centers. And that's where you have to be. That's where you come in. Yeah. It's what you see on the wall is what we can have the space available to share with the public at that. Any anyone time? But that should always be seen as a story that it's being told by the curator's at that moment, there's thousands of stories that can be told with what's in in storage behind. So it's it's interesting that we're limited as to how much we can have out at any one moment, but we're still caretakers of everything else. And they're still that potential for stories and MoMA has also has a very active outgoing loan program. We've loan lend hundreds and hundreds of works every year to other museums partner with other museums to do stuff with our collection. So. Even though quite a lot is in storage that still a pretty active amount that stuff has a life, and it's used so to some extent, you're an archivist is another way if they in one way in one way to again to try and simplify, but didn't you said you also play a role and actually acquiring this stuff. Yeah. So did you play a role in Quiring the emoji? I did. Okay. That seems like a good example. So take me through where how did you acquire the emoji? So the project started with Michelle Miller Fisher and Pella Pella is our senior curator of design trying to think of some more humble masterpieces politic very influential show in the early two thousand called humble masterpieces that tried to look at some of the greatest example of design that happened in a very simple manner like that little pencil that you have gone on the classic yellow wouldn't pencils or the post it note, which seems like just a piece of paper, but actually three him engineering that kind of sticky stuff that releases was a real feat of engineering so this exhibition she did. Was meant to call attention to objects that we often take for granted. But actually have a very rich design process behind them. So they Michelle and Palo were trying to rethink this process and came up with one of them being the emoji. So I started working with them on this process, and we figured out where emoji came from. It was a really interesting thing to research and learn so they were originally released by a company called NT DOCOMO, which is kind of the Verizon wireless of Japan, gigantic telecom. So the process is I send an Email into the ether saying, hey, we want your stuff and then weeks go by and then I say, hey, hey, people, and they finally get a response from PR personnel. Like, what are you talking about? When when you sent an Email saying, I'm from MoMA, and I wanna add your piece or your work to my collection. Do you usually get a response? We usually get a response, thankfully, being a pretty well known museum does open some doors, but. When you're talking, and this is the same thing that we encountered when we acquired video games, you Email, Nintendo, or Sony and say you want to do this and their first response or doklam. Oh, the first response is always what do you wanna do what? They're that's confusion. Yeah. I I guess the question why do you want? What do you wanna copy of our game? Why do you want a copy of our of our emoji, especially when something is vastly obsolete? Right. You're talking about emoji from nineteen ninety nine. Nobody's using these things anymore. They have no monetary value to the company or what the same could be said of Sony when we're trying to choir a game from the late nineties that has no monetary value anymore. So you're talking you're trying to help them think of something as having cultural value that they're only used to framing a monetary sense. Right. So it it it often takes a while to sort of twist their brains around your essentially convincing them to take their own work. Seriously, these things especially in the digital world. These things have a life. Dan, they put them out. And then they're already onto the next thing. Right. The thing is and as long as it's still making the money, they're going to pay attention to it. But the moment is no longer making money. It's forgotten. Well, let me ask the philosophical question. Why doesn't matter? Why should they why doesn't matter? If MoMA has a copy of the file in their warehouse on their servers, the burry storing a digital fires a thumb drive somewhere. It's a digital file. Yeah. So why does it matter? If Mullah has file why does it matter if we have any our work? The point of a museum is to highlight certain cultural products that are worthy of great attention. Right. So it's our job to say look at this Cezanne or look at this work by Frank Lloyd Wright, these are really great monuments and chievements and human history, and we should be aware of the creativity. That's going on around us part of the mission of an architecture and design department is to bring forward things that we really take for granted things we use chair. Bears buildings are the most invisible of all we just use them. We don't stop actually look at them. So that takes even more work to make people focus on and look at and we found that the story of how emoji which are now. So embedded in our lives had a really fascinating origin story that we just felt the world should note. So they they can kind of think more critically about these things. And I guess to a large extent putting that file on your server or putting that ice cream cone in your house is making the statement. That's that's real. It's the action of doing it. That's you're saying it's your area. You guys are say, okay. This is an that that you're you're putting your stamp of approval or whatnot. Yeah. It's it's really try by using our loud megaphone because we we do have a loud voice and a very prominent voice. We can call attention to things that say, a smaller nonprofit or smaller institution. Just couldn't get as much attention on these things as we can. So you send the mail. I need you get a baffled response. And then you start trying to expose. To them. What you just explained to me? What do you do next how how did the process on fold? Well, so it was both talking to doklam and also talking to the original creator. She could talk could eat to who was the designer working at DOCOMO in the nineties when they were trying to create the system called I'm owed, which was really the first mobile internet on a cell phone in the late nineties in Japan. They were way ahead of us in terms of cell phone says sure, you know, so she could taco was helpful people. Don't komo. We're actually once we finally got them to think about what we were trying to do they were really on board. And then it just became a question of what does it mean for moment to own these things right, and which gets into some really interesting legal entanglements. And what does it mean to own digital file or intellectual property and international law? Applies to that all gets really fascinating for anybody. Who's interested in law and for everybody else, they'd probably eyes glazing over. Well, no, I can I I don't know if it's possible to give a elevator pitch. But what does it mean for moment to own that, vile? It means we have the right to use the file within the walls of the museum. We can show it. However, we choose and we can print it. We can blow it up. We can show it on screens. We can use the works as the curator's decide. Right. So there's no real restrictions on how these things are used and most crucially they can never be taken away from us. So in the same way that you do if there's a prewar painting from Germany, you're going to do very clear provenance research to make sure there's no like questionable ownership history because you can't bring something into the museum. If there's a chance that it could be taken away the same holds true with digital artifacts. So if it's a video game made by Sony, or if it's these emoji they need to come in. And we need to know that they can never be taken away. And it's what's interesting is that you could make a fair use claim right under US copyright law to do a lot of these things. But if you get into copyright law long enough, you'll quickly find out that the United States system is really idiot and not well Tae. Tailored to digital ownership of things. Right. So by creating kind of one to one arrangement with these companies, you get very clear what the museum can do with it. And it doesn't matter what copyright law does copyright law can change it can get better. It can get worse, but all of that's relevant because we have a very clear arrangement an agreement with these companies. So when the museum and the company are working out, this kind of arrangement what's your role on all at that point? What are you doing? I'm trying to make lawyers happy, which is I'm trying to make the MoMA lawyers happy, and I'm trying to make the IP lawyers at a big tech companies happy to at this point. I could have a second career in making lawyers feel warm and fuzzy about what they do. So are you sort of acting as almost negotiator is that going back and forth between and it's really both trying to understand the legal concerns of parties, both our side and the other side, but also trying to keep the discussion on the kind of what? Museum is trying to do with these things and to continue to frame the debate and negotiations of an around that will give the museum the most latitude and the most freedom and will really give us the best tools to honor the creators of these things to tell the story. Well, do you have any kind of a law background or I have zero law background? Okay. Because that's interesting because it seems like a lot of what you're doing is negotiating over legal rights. It's fun to learn on the job. Can is what was your background? Did you get into this? My background is actually in fine, art and drawing and painting art history. I had no background at all in architecture or design or contract negotiation or contract, negotiate. Is that common is that how people usually end up in collection specialist role. It's it really varies. So there's a collection specialist for each department at the museum and our roles. Do vary quite a lot and that has to do with the nature of our collection. My colleague and photography tasha is dealing with photographic prints and digital files and things like that as well. That's a very different kind of set of responsibilities and needs than say, I have or the colleague in film. Ashley. So it's really there is no like one clear are is the half to this is the is your colleague deals of photographic prints. Thinking more about like storage issues, and preventing it from the prints from yellowing kind of thing. There's there's conservation issues. There's acquisition this you loans and exhibitions we're called in as support for exhibitions and research. So it's I mean tasha is a walking dictionary for all things photography at the museum. This up sort of working is made possible by Comcast business. Business has always been driven by innovators entrepreneurs and disrupters people who've embrace change, but it can only happen with the right partners. That's why Comcast built the nation's largest gig speed network the network powering innovation, but you need more than speed. So Comcast businesses moving beyond beyond connecting business. Helping you provide better experience or customers and employees beyond network complexity zero touch one boss network solutions beyond the best for your money to the best for your business at an even greater value. The company that delivers unrelenting speed is also the company with smart technologies and advanced application beyond what any other provider provides Comcast business beyond fast. Take your business beyond at Comcast business dot com. That's Comcast business dot com today. Now, we're talking about you dealing with the emoji. Let's come back to the ice cream cone does that have all the same legal rigamarole. No cone and put that in the that's the nice thing about physical objects. When you have it you have it. So when we acquire things I often love it when we get a drawing because then it's like, okay, I've got this piece of paper. Here's a drawing done. Right. The session number on the back put it in storage. And that's simplifying. There are actually a lot of concerns for those things. So with the ice cream cone, this was part of the humble masterpieces show, and it included as I said post, it notes bandaids Eminem's sugar cubes and the ice cream cone, which is as you can imagine you take an ice cream cone and stick in storage for a few years, it's going to get brittle. So we went to go check on the storage because we periodically check on these things, and it had been smushed inside. It's very carefully packed topic and tissue paper. And but as I scream cones will do when they get seven years old it got smooshed. So we needed a replacement. How did you pick the specific cone what kind of comb was sugar cone or waffle waffle cone? Because all right. So the idea is that the waffle cone is actually one of those design objects whose history is kind of invisible we all sort of accept it is an innovation by Sergio much Uni in the I think it's the late nineteenth century, the kind of famous story runs out of cups and bowls for his ice cream. There's a waffle Dutch waffle maker nearby takes probably mangle in the story, by the way. He takes one twisted into corn like in an emergency. Dammit. I'll just screaming this thing Tada turns into a brilliant invention. So we've found in our research that the closest equivalent currently being made too much ice cream cone is that made by Bennie Jerry's. Oh, interesting. Eric keeping the traditional they're keeping the traditional. It's an extremely close to the original idea. And so your job is to make sure that you can go you can get it put it in sergeant that I mean, I guess most you can you can re I did a little beauty pageant thing. So we. Laid out like ten cones the people behind me in line Lima real thrilled with this. And I was like I don't know co number a 'cause it's got a little bit of malformed bottom. I go at Combe number. See did you explain this to the people in line? Yeah. They thought it was hilarious. This is the Ben and Jerry's people thought this was really fun. So yeah. I mean, I it's better than another scoop. I guess or it's more interesting. So you've got this really vast and varied collection that you're overseeing that you're shining. So I guess you also have to be an expert on actually how to store this stuff. Right. Yeah. We I work with a preparer name, Pamela, pope's, who's her duties ten more toward dealing with the physical nature of the things. How to store them properly how to handle them? I tend to be more than knowledge and thoughts shaman, and she's Oga. So she's actually you've got someone whose job is just to make sure that the car is not scratched that the ice is not smoke. That the that the designs for the building all, you know, kept in perpetuity, and then your jobs to know how I guess that's all being handled. What's going on and how to get it? Yeah. So we really kind of work in tandem on those kind of collection care needs. So you've got the collection care stuff, which you work with partner on you've got the acquisition stuff. And then like, what's the what are the other big buckets again loans? So we have a very rich outgoing loan program. Both exhibitions generated by other museums that they want to borrow something from us and also exhibitions generated in partnership with MoMA weeded to very large ones in the last year and a half or so we did one in Australia last year and also wanna fundation Louis Vitton and Paris, both of which took very large amounts of MoMA art works to these places. And in some cases, involved really complex projects like in Paris at the Louis Vuitton foundation. We for the first time installed a artwork that we acquired twenty fifteen which was a very large chunk. Of their original facade curtain wall of the UN secretary at building. Okay. So thirteen feet high and twelve feet wide massive the original like, aluminum and steel and glass skin of the building because they had to completely replace the curtain wall on the secretary. And we had it. You've just had that sitting in your warehouse since two thousand fifteen. Yeah. So it's like, how do you? How do you keep that thing very carefully because some of the classes very fragile? But the the bigger question was not so much. How do we keep it? It's how to show it because this thing is the skin of a building. But it doesn't stand up on its own. It's the skin it hangs onto a building. So we had to essentially create a kind of structure that can hang this things. So that people could see it and that involved working with architects and engineers trying to figure this out. So that was so when I say something like an outgoing loan. That's not just here's this drawing. It's often. All right here. We have these pieces of the United Nations building. How do we show them? And so it can be even. Alone can still be a very involved process. So again, tell me like when you were figuring that out what were you personally doing where you going back and forth between an architect to is. You know, coming up with the designs, or what was what was your role? My role was the kind of project manager. So I was working with our curator's. Our chief creator Martino steely, and Sean Anderson and other curator Barry bergdahl, former chief curator, and the engineering firm that we did the curtain wall, which is Heinsohn associates, very big curtain wall engineering firm in New York to kind of frame the debate as to how what is it? We want this object to tell this a piece of a building. How do we want to show this to people that will give them the clearest understanding of what it meant to be a Colonel the UN secretary, by the way, it was the first curtain wall building skyscraper in the United States. So it's really kind of sitting in between all of these different parties. Metal fabricators engineers architects curator's to kind of. Bring the project to fruition to to end that best speaks to and represents the ideas behind it when you are loaning artwork. Is it typically another institution comes to you and says, we know you have this in your collection. We would love to show it ourselves or this. There's some travelling show, or is it you proposing something to them so MoMA generally is the recipient of these things. Some museums are in the business of putting together big shows and kind of selling them to other institutions doesn't really do that so much which museums sort of do that or the Victorian Albert museum in London has a long history putting together incredible exhibitions that are meant to be toured and go around feature design museum, which is in Germany, there's and then other museums pay for the rights to to show that vision. So you're you're typically getting requests from other institutions, we're getting requests, the the two exhibitions we did recently in Australia and in Paris were kind of jointly organized between us than these borrowing institution. And so that was a little bit in between the two it's not exactly them coming to us. And it's on exactly generating it. It was sort of done together with these institutions and sume you're the one who's fielding a lot of those requests, I'm feeling all of your fielding all of their quests. So what typically are other institutions asking for from your guys? Well, it's interesting because you can imagine if you're talk to my colleague, Lilli, Goldberg and painting and sculpture, she probably gets a request for a demo day Avignon or starry night. Like every five minutes is that request ever. Get granted. No. Although I think starring I did go out because we organize co organized a Van Gogh show maybe ten years ago with the Van Gogh museum. Okay. And so they gave us a lot of their great stuff to do a show here. And in return, we had to give them some great stuff to do the show there. That's the only time I can think of lily would know if there's other times things ever walked out the door. But there's definitely a lot of works. Like, absolutely no way. And oftentimes because of conservation concerns, if we're really concerned if this thing gets moved, and when you travel in artwork, it's a lot of danger. But go down as there's not much. There's nothing you can do at that point. It's it's a fiery wreck that you can get another ice cream common. They can get that's that not another starry night. But for your collection, the the architecture and design what typically are other institutions asking for. So it's it tends to be things that are unique to us one of the things in a design collection as you have things that there's other copies of those objects. Right. There's several things that are very unique to moments collection. And the two biggest ones the archives that we are in charge of. So we have the archive Frank Lloyd Wright, which we co own and co care for with the Avery architectural library at Columbia University. So we get a lot of requests for Frank Lloyd Wright's stuff, and we also have the archive of Meese Vandross, the great German American architect. So those two get probably the bulk of all of our loan requests. Because if you wanna do show on me spend or Frank Lloyd Wright, there's nowhere else to go, but to MoMA so how to US or questrom institution. What are you looking for when they're asking about it? Well, we're looking for or is this a serious exhibition is this one that actually does something for the kind of our mission is to support scholarship and a public understanding of these architects and to celebrate critical thinking of them. So is this exhibition furthering that aim or is it just some puff piece that somebody wants to put inside their hotel or something like that? So is it a serious exhibition with series scholarship is it going to get a good amount of viewership. Probably not. Gonna win to a museum very rural environment that nobody's going to go to is this going to actually get some traction. And then also there are works safe to travel, and it's not to say that we only have big famous museums. We did a great alone to amaze exhibition this past spring at the McCormick art museum. Elmhurst Illinois, not a huge well-known museum, but they did a fantastic exhibition. So it was one we wanted to support. So it's really trying to gauge the quality of the exhibition the quality request quest the quality of the institution is a safe place. Or are they just like a shed somewhere in Long Island city? Is it gonna burn down? Is it going to burn down as a professional staff? There's many many factors that go into it. Are you the one making that decision on your own or you working with other people on staff to make that call? So it's I'm again, the kind of node that everything comes so I- liaise with colleagues registrar's department colleagues and the conservation department our chief curator, our senior curator, it's really all of these voices come together to make this decision. And so you all you huddle outside. Yeah. And then you you have to send the back, then I'm the one that either gets to give the happy news or break some hearts. That's that's really interesting to me though. So you're the person who a lot of the smaller museums around America are basically coming to and asking we would really like to show this. Yeah. And you have to be your responsible for getting everyone together to make that decision and being a little bit the gatekeeper. Yeah. Okay. Another shaman gatekeeper archivist. Yeah. I mean, it's it's really a collection specialist is kind of the person behind the scenes. Yeah. The the creators are the public face of the department. They're the ones creating zek submissions proposing works fact positions, and we're the ones making it actually happen. So you weren't designed person when you came into this role. What dreams in the first place? I've always been interested in art. I used to be an artist myself of been fascinated by art since I was a little kid grew up mostly in Oklahoma, and Texas, and when I was I think ten years old we moved to Fort Worth which has a jewel box of museum called the Kimbler museum, which happens to also be an architectural masterpiece. It's Louis Kahn's udub beautiful building. And it's kind of like the Frick. So you know, how the Frick has of small collection, but it has just one incredible artwork? After the other like, a really great Goya, a really great whole bind and over and over and the Kimble's election is kind of like that too. It's small, but really chockablock with fantastic stuff for for people who've enough million Frick aller in in New York has also in this beautiful old robber, baron mentioned pretty much the only good thing. This man didn't his life was leave this mansion mind to turn into a fabulous museum. And he rated. Europe for some amazing artworks. Well, well done. He also he survived being shot by socialists at one point just to give you a sense of how awful Robert baron. He was but anyway, we've forgotten all that great museum. So so you had kind of a collection like that. And that was kind of inspired you your younger. Yeah. And I think it was and I was always interested in architecture because of that building and it sat across a garden from Philip Johnson building as well. The aim and Carter so architecture was always a really big part of seeing these artworks if you ever go to the Kimball you'll very clearly see what I'm talking about. The galleries are very specifically designed with these kind of raised barrel vault roofs with this beautiful light diffusing system that comes down. So you you are very aware of the architecture while at the same time, they are architecture kind of disappears of virtually really beautiful way. It's truly one of the great buildings in the United States. So I I think that sort of continued my interest in art, I studied art and college and also in graduate school. And my first job in an art museum was at the museum of fine arts in Houston, actually, so which is a Meese Vandross building. So I've it's like this is fate. It's fate. And at every point I was more interested in the fine arts. Yeah. But architecture rearing its head again. And again, every place that I went to so how would you say that doing this job has kind of changed your view of the arts, and museums like, what has it changed the way think about them? It has because as an artist or an art history teacher, you are really sort of on one side of the the big industry of cultural production. Right. So you are an say a painter trying to get your painting sold or seen at a gallery or you're an art history teacher, and you're teaching students who may have no background in art. So you're kind of out there in the world, whereas a museum it's very much about taking are in and putting it in the storage facility or putting it on the wall. And so it's this kind of opposite end of it. And so in a way, it's you're getting to see how the sausage is made. Right. You're you're very aware of how exhibitions or put together that it's not some mysterious process that there's actually a lot of intellectual rigor that goes behind that why some are works quired, and others are not that there's a lot of complicated reasons for these things. So it's it's been fascinating to really see it from this institution. Perspective. As opposed to a more on the ground perspective. As of being a practicing artist or practicing art teacher, your the institution of museums. Y'all been dimissed because you're you're the one making it all work. Yeah. I think you see where institutions can be really great. And where we have a really positive and compelling impact on the world. And also how museums can become unfortunately, a little disconnected from the world. And the one of my own personal aims is to continue to force museum to try to re-engage in my own small way. Right. And how how can I continue this outreach to get the museum to engage with the world and engage with communities that it may not be engaging with as much as it should be is that because you're the person acting as sort of the face, or you're you're acting as inet gatekeeper role because of that and also partly because there are certain fields that I've taken a particular interest in video games is one. Now, I've I've lectured and. San francisco. I games calm in Cologne. Kind of talking about how art museums want to move into kind of cultural realm of video games. And really fascinating work. That's being done in that field. So since you ever see this part of the collection, you sort of have it sounds like you have a desire to evangelize it to say that. Yeah, I do. And it's this is again something that started with palace. She's like the fearless kind of blazer of trails, and it's one that I've been happy to sort of pick up and help with because it's it's one that I believe could be getting more attention and more focus. At Merrill, Lynch. It all starts with you. The you've always the last leave the U who hopes to be I retire. No matter what your priorities are your dedicated adviser provides one on one advice and guidance to help you live the life. You want subscribe to the Merrill Lynch perspectives podcast. Get a better understanding our changing world and how get impact your financial future. Listen as head of global research, Candace Browning chief investment strategist, Michael Hartnett and chief investment officer. Chris his e dive into fascinating subjects like why? Smaller American cities, driving economic growth and the good and bad affects of artificial intelligence subscribed today to the Merrill, Lynch perspectives podcasts. Investing in securities involve risks Merrill. Lynch makes available products and services offered by Merrill. Lynch Pierce Fenner and Smith, inC, vay, Merrill, Lynch. Global research is research produced by via the am L Inc. And or one of more of its billions genitive is registered broker dealer. And. Vestment advisor members essay IPC and wholly owned subsidiaries of Bank Corporation investment products, are not at the I c insured are not guaranteed and may lose value. You clearly have a love of architecture at this point. Again. I I don't think architectures the first thing that comes to mind when people typically think about art museum. So like, what goes into an architecture collection? Like, we talked about sort of like designs prints, but like what actually makes that up? I'll start with an anecdote which was the greatest question anybody's ever asked me at the museum because you'll be walking through the halls and somebody you've got your badge on and somebody will just ask you a question, whereas the bathrooms where do I get tickets for the films, and we try to be good customer service providers and try to help them even if you're busy in rushing to a meeting, but a lady stopped me and briefly was talking and she asked me 'cause she's all my badge architecture and design just said where do you keep the architecture, and that sort of blew my mind from it, and I thought wow. Where do we keep the architecture because she's right? We don't have architectures buildings that one curtain wall. We have that one with pieces of buildings have many pieces of buildings, but we don't have the things themselves. Right. So what we have is representations of buildings. Right. So the drawings that were made, and I would say I would wager more than half of architecture collection is a things that were never built. Maybe even things that were never even meant to be built. Right. It's sort of conceptual pieces or visionary pieces. So really if you're trying to make a representation of an idea. Right. That's ultimately, whether it's a drawing or photograph or a computer rendering or something it's really a representation of an idea. Right. And it's it's about helping the viewer kind of envisioned this place that exists in time and space and movement in in a field in a material whether that's a drawing or photograph or a model that is necessarily. More limiting than the actual thing. Do you ever have ideas for things that you would like to see collection and like go to the curator light try to put like, I guess you obviously think about it all day long. So I imagine there has has two point like, well, I running this added at this thing, and I do all the time. And sometimes they say, oh, that's pretty good. Visit I would get out of here. As they should. I mean, that's what that's what their job is. And I feel really fortunate to have worked with so many fantastic people at the museum. I mean, I often joke that I came to this position. I I wasn't hired as a collection specialist. I was hired as a catalog, but I wanted to catalog the catalog or is that your job is basically just to take this print and get who's the artist was the very basic cataloging information exhibition history provenance history in that kind of database stuff. So it's interesting that kind of like an entry level job at museum. It's an entry level job in say a curatorial department. Okay. But it was one that I was thrilled to get and it was really happy. But I came in with very little background in architecture and design, but I was really fortunate that my teachers in this world were Perry. Burg dollar chief curator at the time and Pella and Tonelli's to the greatest curator's of this field in the world. Right. So I have had the great privilege of having all these amazing people to work with. And I think that's really kind of led me to where I am now. Now where I feel comfortable actually going to them. And they encourage this kind of give and take all of our current chief caters Martinez dearly. And he loves this kind of give and take ideas. What do you think about this? What do you think about that? So we really all of bash these ideas around. So now that we think we've started to get our arms around what your job actually is. Maybe maybe begun begun to. I know there's I definitely haven't hit the docking. Yeah. I can see the list, but I'm just I'll put it away. But the I mean, how would you say you spend most of your time? What is what's taking up the majority of your day? I'm sure you are familiar with the scourge of Email. Yes, it's which the buckets are emailing about all day. Well, often my buckets our time zone based right because we do a lot of things with partners in Europe. So when I get in the first thing in the morning, it's who in Europe. Do I need to work 'cause I want to try to get something on their day. Right. So it's knockout anything tapping their with Europe. And then that's often the very first thing, I do when I get is knocked those out, and then so if there's like a loan exhibition there, you're dealing with Paris. Or what I'm yeah. I I've I want to try to get that done on the soon side. So that I stay on top of those things. And then as soon as that's off my plate, then I'll get into the more kind of brain intensive things. I'm I'm a morning person. So if I need to write something because I write for catalogs or things that go online. I like to do that in the morning because then I can close my internet browser put on headphones and opened Microsoft Word and just right and try to get that done. And then after noon than it just becomes a endless potpourri of meetings. And as you're being that node or you're talking about whatever those varies parts. Yeah. I think if the morning is my most productive time. What is your favorite peace at MoMA? What's your piece of art architecture? Whatever that's really hard question. I think this is slightly biased. But it's part of the building itself because we have to the the building of the museum of modern art has kind of evolved. And when might say metastasized over the years from its originally it was in a townhouse. And then it was the purpose built building in nineteen thirty nine, and then it expanded the fifties and sixties, and it's like we slowly mushroom out and keep growing into these different buildings. But since the fifties there. There's been this kind of access behind the museum that I think is one of the most precious spots in New York City, and that's the sculpture garden, which was designed by Philip Johnson and pulls in influences from all over the place. But is I think maybe the place I returned to again. And again as a place to call my brain down to just walk through to inhabit. Yes, I would say the sculpture that is also my mother's favourite. She's she lived in the city for twenty or forty years and every time she comes back. Now, she insists that we go to sculpture garden to see because it a she goat. She's a very popular lady wants to go and say, hi, friend. It's an it's, you know, the building itself or the garden itself might not seem like something in the collection, but we are still stewards of this place. It's incumbent on us to take care of it to we've got colleagues that are really passionate about the kind of plants that go in there the trees that are in. There got sick a few years ago, and I was really concerned about the trees, but they they. Recovered and they're doing great again. So it's it's I would probably say the sculpture garden. All right, ma'am. This has been a lot fun. Thanks so much. Sure. That's it for this week's episode of working. I hope you enjoyed the show. However, before I leave you tag on a little correction, you may have noticed that during our chat polish with the invention of the ice cream cone to Sergio Marchi owning a few days after we talked however emailed me very upset that he had misspoken and the actual inventor was Hello Archie Oni Sergio former CEO of the and pull them up because he's been working on a car related project. Recently, these things happened in any event if you show, please leave us a review at apple podcasts. And if you have any questions suggestions, Email me at working at slate dot com might producer. I'm working is the absolute indispensable jesmyn, Molly, and as a special thank you to Justin de right for the ad music. Jordan, Weisman come back. Join me next time for more working.

MoMA United States museum of modern art partner Paris Japan Paul Galloway chief curator MoMA the museum Frank Lloyd Wright Europe New York City Comcast Sony Long Island Jordan Weisman American Express word museum Bennie Jerry Philip Johnson
The Human Experience in Objects: The Case for Museums in the 21st Century

The Tel Aviv Review

29:11 min | 2 years ago

The Human Experience in Objects: The Case for Museums in the 21st Century

"Hi, this is Scott Halpern before you. Tune into this week's episode of the Tel Aviv review. I'd like to invite you to a live recording of the podcast in New York City on Tuesday, the fifth of February two thousand and nineteen. I'll be interviewing professor, Michael Walter. They highly acclaimed political philosopher about his latest book a foreign policy for the left. Please. Join me for more details. Check out the Tel Aviv review podcasts Facebook page, all the v one website. This is is still be one. The Tel Aviv review. Hello and welcome to the Tel Aviv review. Brought to you by the Van Leer Jerusalem institute, which promotes humanistic democratic and liberal values can social discourse in Israel. I'm your host get happen. And I would like to start by making a special appeal if you like us, please show it we need your support. Please give to show by going to a homepage. That's still be one FM's instead of review scroll down to the bottom. And you see a big red button. That says patriots click and support us where counting on you. In return. My co-host stylish ending who is away this week's Hadley, and I will bring you every week discussions about books research and other things that have caught her attention. My guest today is an international adviser to the Humboldt forum. The soon to be opened museum of non-european cultures in Berlin and former director of the British Museum. He recently came to Israel to deliver the inaugural lecture of the Van Leer institute. Tom this one series on the role of ideas, and the responsibility. The intellectuals in contemporary society the McGregor. Hello and welcome to the show. And thank you for the invitation. Let's start with the obvious question. That is perhaps also the most complicated one. How would you define a museum because to my mind, it's almost an conundrum like a dog. Right. You can immediately tell when you see one. But you can't quite a term in what other prerequisites for to be a dog or museum. Right. What are the prerequisites exactly to the heart of the problem is just like a dog different Ziems are like different breeds of dogs? But the all share a couple of things in common. The first thing that shown common is that they're about things, and it's about the expiration of human experience through things looking at things examining things comparing things and using that to tell us something about who. We are why we are about the world around us. So. That's the it's all about what can things tell us about who we are. But it doesn't have to be concrete things right objects. I mean, everything is about things I think it has to be about things the distinction. Regina museum and museum is not a library. There's always good say what the thing is not is not a libraries not about books. It's not a picture gallery in the term that I'm talking about the moment, it's about things of three dimensional objects that tell us something about what is to be a human being and above all tell us how difficult it is to be human being orphanages and the different kinds of museums at the different kinds of dogs of the ones that get different aspects of why it's a great fan or she a hill to be a human being or whether it's about one set of human beings or all of us, and that that's what makes the difference. So the role of the museum starve is to make sense of it all how do. How do you even approach that momentous task depends on the connection you've got and the collection that I was responsible for the British Museum in London had a very clear idea of what the task was and how you're meant to do it. It's set up in the middle of the eighteenth century the first moment when it's possible to collect objects from all over the world because of shipping first Mundi human history, when you can think of putting the whole world together under one roof and thinking about it as one, and that's the task that museum and still percents persists today. First century inside everything that you might and Europe and Britain ever, gone through everything. So it's called the British Museum. Not because it's about the history Britain is it isn't at all is called the British Museum because it's not about it's not a Royal collection is a collection of the people and is about a citizen a citizen or Britain and under citizen of the world. So that's the different kind. Kind of dog different kinds of museum from other ones. That's that's there was those interesting thing there is how do you keep a museum like that up to date is always been about the world now, and you can only understand the world now through its history. But also, but what's happening now? And that's the great challenge of a museum. I think today is to explore the world as it changes around us in terms of history. But also in terms of the future. Can you give us like an example? Maybe a thematic answer to my question. How is the British Museum in the beginning of the twentieth century different from what it was in the late eighteenth century in some ways, it's not different at all. It still has the aim to collect objects that tell you something about society from all around the world because the point of collecting it was to ask one big question. And that is how can people? Live together without conflict in the middle of the Asian century in Europe when people for centuries have been killing each other for religion. The question is how do you have different ideas, different beliefs, different faiths, and yet lived together peacefully? It's made before the big expansion of empire that comes later, and that enriches it on a global scale, but is always of the same idea that you can really only understand what's happening in your own country. If you look at what's happening elsewhere. So if you're like, the British Museum has always been about Gulliver's travels, you set off to look at what's happening in China or Mexico, and you come back if he learned a bit about Mexico and a bit about China, but above all, you realize how odd your way of doing things, and that you can't do it in different ways. So the point of looking at the other cultures is to see how you can be different. And the words would you choose to be different? So there have been out of facts on display for more than two hundred and fifty years their on continually. Yes. But I'm assuming that the way. That the narrative is framed has changed. Yes. Absolute. Okay. So can you give us one example of this artifact that's been there for two to one hundred fifty years, and is is no display differently. Yes. And there's a there's one very obvious artifact when it's put together in the middle of aging century, one of the arguments, very strongly put forward is that all human beings are doing the same things just slide two different ways as a very humane humanistic enlightenment idea, and one of the things that they know is that everybody lets everybody plays music, every society, we know dances, sings whatever. So the one of the collectors asks ship's captains to bring back musical instruments around the world one of the audiences. A drum is bought in Virginia in the United States and before the United States. It's still a British colony in the seventeenth thirties and is put on show as an. American Indian as they call it drum and looked at and everything's how interesting day her drums, just like our drums, then later on much later when they start examining the would the discovered it's not an American drummer tall is actually a drum that comes from west Africa. And how did a drum mid west African wood? Carved, very elaborately carved in west Africa would get Virginia in the seventeenth thirties with his only one way, it's actually part of the slave trade. So from what is the illustration of music as worldwide phenomenon we have a document of the slavery. Now, we don't have many documents of the slave trade from the African side because the people who wrote the records were the whites. So it turns into a very important document because we know that drums were used on the ships to make the slaves dumps to keep them from despair to keep them fit insofar as it could be fit transported that and we also know that then used in the plantations often to call people to revolt so in that drum you have a story of exploitation transport bridge. You also. Have a story of resistance. And then further examination reveal that it's not any ill drum is actually from an African Royal orchestra. And that was makes it clear reminds you is the evidence that of course, the people who sold the slaves were the African rulers. So you have a much more complex story of the slave trade. And it's the first afro American is the oldest documented Afro-American musical instrument. We have so it's the head of everything to do with jars back spirituals everything it's all in that object. What essentially made way for the British Museum and such endeavors, whether we like it or not what British imperialism right at the British empire that brought enabled people to bring artifacts from all over the world. And. Not just imperialism. That's what's what makes it possible is British shipping. And transportation lot of that is trade. Sure. But there is a certain power relations that allow the British to take off the from. Sometimes it's trade. Sometimes it's exchange. I'm sometimes it's about power. Of course, it is. But this is more complicated, just imperial all. Right. Fair enough. So say that British global dominance for a big chunk of that period. Was the thing that enable it and take you for the correction, but still how do you? I mean the. The image of British dominance. Of the seas has changed over time. How do you dissociate your endeavor from? The memory the not so happy memory of that period in British history because they say about when you go to Egypt or to grease or to Mesopotamia they tell you that to finish that that trip. You have to go to the British Museum. Right. How how do you answer that? I don't dissociates you can't dissociate it. And the thing is not to dissociate. The drum is a good example, the because the objects change and the thinking changes, the drum is one story of slavery. But is very important that at the end of the eighteenth century. It was very much part of the work that came out of the research and the Bush Bish museum and the lower there that formed an opposed slavery, and the abolition of slavery and the narrative of the objects and what happens to them later is critical part of working with the countries. The people. Above all, the countries the communities from which the came. So you don't associate it. What you do when you present? For instance, aboriginal Australians material. Now, there's a real example of imperial power. Europeans arriving Australia. Dispossessing the people who largely died we have very significant in the Richmond. The British Museum has very significant aboriginal collections. Their research now with communities of aboriginals, you write the history again because every generation is to write its history new. But you're right it now with the aboriginal 's. But you're right it in the context of the world, which produced the vents, and that seems to be a very very interesting exciting thing to do because the original community with whom we worked. They have no written documents, of course, from their these are part of their history documents they worked with the colleagues. We have the curator in the Brazilian isn't aboriginal. So she is telling the story of her people to the world in the context of the world through that collection. That's the way you do it. You don't dissociates at all. And part of the. Debate of any collection with it's the Louvre with as the Berlin museums. The metropolitan New York part of the critical story, the central story is how did those objects come and how those relations changed? Yeah. Because the power relations is not only the world for Britain. It's also what it means inside Britain British society because going back to our dog its defining more than museum is is very hard. But defining what British is even harder. And the fact that as you said, you're not a Royal collection. You not you. But at at the end of the day, you are one the one British institution. You are the British Museum the on several British museums that you compete with how do you account for the amorphous nece and the range of critical voices coming from within British society to claim their part in British society. That's what the museum can do. The the museum is the perfect place for that debate to take place because what is very I think very striking is that for almost every part of the British Museum with you're doing about the African collections the Asian collections. The Greek collections there is now a British population. For whom that's their history as well. If you look at London nearly three hundred mother tongues spoken, huge African population huge Indian Pakistani population their histories in the British Museum. They have come to Britain just as the objects came to Britain, they are part of the same process. How they see that process how they are now part of British society that debate takes place in the museum, and it can only there because the museum is free to everybody. Because one of the great founding documents of the museum in seventeen. Fifties was that it must be free of charge to everybody native and forum. So it's always been seen as a resorts for the world to study to us. But in Britain today, it's an extraordinary place where the melting pot of our society, the great enrichment and extension of our society is reflected in the collections, but zooming because the melting pot of British society and multiculturalism is such a hot debate. Eight and everyone has a take on it that some of them pursue more violently or more racially than others. Do you get? I mean for what you what you say. Now, it sounds as if it's like a harmonious process that everyone lives together. I mean, do you get a lot of pushback and a lot of pressure from some groups perhaps from? From I wouldn't say the government, but you know, people of power how how do you how do you manage that living together as never Mona's processes anybody who's ever had part of been part of a family living because it's not about harmony is about how you how you handle dissent, and how you live together with different views. That's where the museum is. I think very important public space and part of the purpose of the museum is the debate. I mean, it's got to be a place where disagreement happens in public, and it doesn't happen. All the Tony is the hotel and part of the duty of the museum is to organize those debates. If you take something like, the very rich collection in the British Museum of objects from Bengal because that was the part of India with which the British engage. I and is always most deeply there's also a very big Bengali population in London. Both Hindu and Muslim and the model for debates then is that you take objects events festivals whatever and you have them presented by that say a. A British scholar who's not Indian, but you also involve the diaspora population in London the British Indian population, and you work with people from mingle. So you have a triangular discussion all of those people have very different hues of the project. Some of them would be economically researched. Others are more emotional response. What the story is that they see in them, which are their stories would scholars would know which important part of the of the object in the narrative, and then you have to have the debate there, and how do you convey to the public to the visitor when they come in and see been goalie object, how do you incorporate the very different views that does in many ways incompatible into one narrative, you is very difficult to label. The the great to great things have happened in the last twenty thirty years really the first in this regard, the first is that. You can of course, use sound guides with much greater depth. So on a sound guide. You can present different views at length and complexity would you can't on a label? The podcast is a perfect example of this. You have debates discussions. They're downstream podcast and there forever. So that's one way of doing it. The other big ways through exhibitions and public events which you run with either a broadcaster or with the newspaper. And then, of course, the other very important thing is you lend the objects the great change in the last thirty years is that because of the technology of transport you can lend the Chinese objects to Africa, you can lead the African objects to China and to take out. There's really interesting question the regime, you China and Africa is changing every day is one of the big, geopolitical shifts. There is nothing in the Chinese museum. Collects. To tell the story of Africa. That's something the British Museum can do you can lend those objects and equally the other way round. There are a great museums in Africa, but they've African things so that brings me to my next question. I mean, it's segue. So perfectly into my next question. Which is is your conception of what a museum is a western idea or do you draw inspiration from the way different museums were? This kind of endeavour was done around the world. The museum is most of us know, it is a western idea. It really starts in the form. We know it's in the way we use the word in Europe in the eighteenth century seventeenth eighteenth century, but it has been taken up around the world, and there are earlier models in the in the eighteenth century, the Chinese emperor. Puts together. What is in fact, a great museum and many critics? They wouldn't have used the word museum. But when African kings in west Africa, conquer their neighbors. They bring the objects from those other tribes other cultures of the peoples together. So the idea of bringing together collections of objects from other cultures are the by conquest treasury exchange is of universal one with you museum is a different thing as the purpose. If the purposes for study than museum, and of course, we've been very influenced in the British Museum and everywhere, by the way, the museums idea there was developed elsewhere, particularly in countries like China in Japan where that idea has been taken up very very strongly and plays a similar kind of role. How do you deal with Klein of interest in this kind of low tech activity? I mean, there's no decline of interest is are rising steady to an all time high. No, quite the reverse. I think as podcast this one and people like you have more and more impact on on the world. People more will want to look at the thing. The real thing to see the thing to compare the thing now because I tell you why many years ago interviewed someone from the imperial medium in London who told me that the main problem is that they deal with the three least popular words in the English language, Imperial War and museum. So you're saying that even young people who who are so. I Giles with technology Arkin to discover the real things that three dimensional of the British Museum visitor figures are now somewhere around seven million a year over forty percent of those are under thirty and the most the fastest growing part of our visitor group the thirties. So there's absolutely no question that, and I think it's because precisely because you technology allows different kind of engagement with things because you can look too closely and listen to comment debates discussions, different views, different interpretations at the same time. I think that's one reason why this is so popular about the political independence of the British Museum. I'm assuming that in a country like the UK, whereas there's a clear guidelines on what civil society is. And the -cational purpose of such places this much less of a debate. But what do you see from other places in the world that too that you worked with and worked vis-a-vis in terms of governments and political power trying to dictate what the narrative in museums should be the political autonomy of the museum is the key thing. Very interestingly. And maybe as you'd expect in the in the enlightenment, it's the founding debate about the British Museum. The key point was this would not be the Royal connection. The key point was that the government must not be able to control. This parliament sets up a collection buys a collection for the citizen, and it is good. British Museum is it's where everybody and the key question is. We by the collection. We put it in the middle of London. We open it free of charge. But how do we make sure that does not controlled by the government? So parliament is working against the government. But that's part of what it's supposed to do. Which was precisely what is supposed to do. And they decide the only way to ensure that this institution which has to be funded by the state is independent of the state is to have trustees. So the invent the trustees system this is the first trustee museum in the world. And the point of the trustees is to protect the intellectual life of museum from the political control of the government while depending on the financial funding of parliament. So is the the British Museum honored only to the trustees not to the minister and the trustees answered not to the government, but to parliament as a whole it sounds rather technical, but it was a brilliant way of taking the collection out of political control. But when you lend exhibitions to China or Africa and places where the rule of law is not as strong as. Developed as it is in Britain. How do you? I mean, do you even try to prevent a situation whereby political power would interfere? Can I come back? The point of that freedom means that only Britain underbush museum. British collections were really free to lend to Tehran in large measure. This was a very important question. The British Museum had put on an exhibition on the history of Iran because we thought it was extremely important. If you want to understand the world today to understand what the world look like from Tehran. If you grow up Iranian if you grow up with the knowledge that your country was the great imperial power for thousands of years in the in the region, if you know, the this great humane tradition of Cyrus, how'd you feel about the world? That's what museum is about. How do other people think about the world? The question out. So there were very generous in lending to us. It was I think it very important exhibition in allowing a debate about Iran, then Iran now how Iran thinks about its history they asked in return, if we would lend to Iran, the great Cyrus cylinder, the document which shows that Cyrus having conquered Babylon allows the Jews to return to Jerusalem and rebuild the temple. Our government. I think would not have allowed that nor with the French governments nor with the US government the British Museum. Trustees were independent they felt that the Iranians had been very generous in lending to the museum for particular kind of public debate outside political control and the British Museum trust is lent to Tehran. And the object went and came back without any problem. But then you come to the question of how is it talked about there? And that is I think the fundamental rule. The most difficult rule is that you hold the object. But other people must be allowed to talk about it as they choose. There are many different readings. And if you the central point of the museum is not restrict within the limits of of intolerable, racism, or whatever. So when you lend the object the British Museum is the greatest lender of objects in the world. You also recognize that it is for other people to decide how they interpret it. You have to accept that. It's really an inclination of the classic liberal paradox. Right as liberal Kenya. Dictate for Illit, can you allow illiberal people to voice, their Elizabeth opinion. Right. And you we all know that you have to do that up to a certain point of the questions where does the limited come. But I think your question is that. I I I believe very firmly that if you lend to museums you're part of a network of colleagues who will look after it. So the security is usually not the big problem. And you have to believe that debate about the object will change, ultimately the way people think will open up new ideas, new possibilities, and that you're stimulating change. Right. No mcgregor. An international adviser to the Humboldt forum and the former director of the British Museum. Thank you very much for coming on the show. Thank you. And also big thanks to give them off the mirror of sound engineer and three Thai Shalom, our producer and the Van Leer institute for the generous support, and I would like to ask you this many or most of you listen to us on the apple podcasts app, and please please consider writing review you support us by going to our website. That's tailby. One daughter fem nice Tel Aviv review and subscribing onto a patron campaign. We've got gifts for you. Out a arrive with almost five hundred interviews if you like what we do here. You can also like us on Facebook page is called the Tel Aviv review, podcast ideas from Israel and follow me on Twitter. Join us again next week for another edition of the Tel Aviv review. And until then good. Good.

British Museum Regina museum and museum London government Britain Imperial War and museum Chinese museum Tel Aviv Europe Bush Bish museum Britain underbush museum word museum British institution China Israel Africa Van Leer Jerusalem institute Humboldt forum west Africa Berlin
Planet Word Museum - Ann Friedman, Founder, CEO, Creator

Green Connections Radio - Insights on Innovation, Sustainability, Clean Energy, Leadership, Entrepreneurship, and Careers w Top Leaders, Women

29:38 min | 5 months ago

Planet Word Museum - Ann Friedman, Founder, CEO, Creator

"Today we're having an adventure. I'm going to take you on a tour of a new museum. That is called planet. Word combining two of my favorite topics on earth language and the planet. And before we do the tour. I have the privilege of talking to an friedman who is the ceo. founder chief. cook and bottle washer. She made this happen. It's her vision. And she is a former first grade teacher. And i'm really to hear about this so here we are green connections. Radio is bringing you to planet word. We haven't taken a tour yet. So i will learn a lot as we go welcomed reconnections connections radio where we bring you insights from remarkable women. Innovators in energy sustainability at corporate responsibility and diversity on john michaelson. I'm just gonna launch right in right now actually. 'cause i'm just so excited to be here. So welcome and welcome to green actions radio and thank you for hosting us your brand spanking new facility. My pleasure thank you for talking to me and being interested of course so first. Let's go to the origin story if you will. How did this idea come to you. You've been a teacher reading and writing your obviously married to journalists censure that has an influence so talk about how you came up with this idea and how you made it happen so i retired from teaching in two thousand eleven. But i wasn't ready to leave literacy or education. That was really important to me and so i tried a few different volunteer opportunities and nothing was quite right and then i read an article in the new york times about the launching of a new museum of mathematics in new york city. Monmouth and it used technology to bring his abstract concepts of math to life. And when i read that. I said that's it. That's what i could do or should do because what was really bothering me was all the trends going the wrong way in literacy and people not reading for pleasure and newspapers folding and so i was trying to think what could you do to reverse those trends and and i thought well maybe a museums informal approach to education and learning could do the trick and so that was the story. I went up to new york. I became friendly with the founders of moma and talk to them. What should i do. What should i not do. I gotta museum consultant. Who did a feasibility study in the washington area of weather. This idea of a museum words language would fly and It was very positive. And i kept getting positive feedback from the people that we talked to himself. There was no turning back. I just kept working on it. L. that's cool so. I'm so glad you talked about newspapers folding because especially right now in the face of a pandemic in all of the crises we have going on in the united states and globally. I guess i could say people are realizing how much local news matters. i keep reading obviously. I'm an audio and radio. And i read about a lot of radio. Stations that are of rescuing their communities and integrating reporters who've been laid off from local newspapers et cetera. Now now you're just launching but have you found that your even coming up with this idea and forwarding and bring it to. Life has helped any of the the struggling literacy initiatives. Because you said you wanted to contribute to literacy even just in having discussions about it. Do you think that people kinda rallied and said what a great way to save literacy tremendous positive response from teachers especially people who said finally museum interactive museum about the humanities in particular a lot of groups bring eighth graders to washington especially during the summer during the spring and they can go to aaron space. They can go to science museums history museums. But there really anything like planet word and so many teachers were just ecstatic. Now we'll have a chance to go to a museum where language and words and reading in books come to life so they're very excited about that but chancer your question where all ready partnering with a couple of different literacy organizations in the metro dc area. Because i want to get books into the hands of children and so we're we're doing some book distribution partnerships and once. Covid is over or less of a threat. We have all sorts of proposals ideas about how to work with the community and enhance literacy. I'm also working with the group. That's really the park. That's directly opposite planet word and making sure that they incorporate some words and language into the park plans especially the children's playground which is directly opposite. Planet word oh that's a great idea. How did you come up with the name. Well i had about fifty names. That i played with and i would check. Is that name taken you know. Is there something already called the in such. And then i had focus groups and so i tried out my top two choices for names on them and they did not go over very well. I won't even tell you what they so. My next choice was planet word and the reason being because we say that language is what makes us human. and here's our planet. The planet we know about with people on it so planet word and the reaction of the kids who were in one of the focus groups was so excited. Yes of course you know. Words are universal. They're everywhere and so that's how we're came to be that the name of the museum. I love that and that's your target audience anyway right yet. Our target audience is ten to twelve year olds and so what we did focus groups. We had a focus group of ten to twelve year old boys. Ten to twelve year. Old girls. I was advised that they should be separated so the girls wouldn't be intimidated from speaking up. And then we had two groups were their parents of ten to twelve year olds and a so. We had four focus groups altogether. Oh i love that you know. It's interesting when i was coming to mind decide. I'm sure you know doctrines sto fan. I interviewed she's the head of aaron space and she's the first woman to have that museum and she's an amazing story. She raised children herself and she has told me that. Ten to twelve year olds were their primary audience to that. They're the one the main wants to come to l. the space museums. And so they they do the same thing in the sense of the design their exhibits with that as the anchor. And then obviously you want to appeal to adults etc. And of course they're going through a massive renovation. I i really call it a transformation. It's way beyond renovation at this point but other museum. Ceo's i've talked to was well the science museum in minnesota cetera. While you guys are from minnesota so that rings a bell but they target eight to ten to twelve year olds too. So i'm really interested in obviously helping girls learn languages and right and not depend on auto correct right because it sometimes wrong by the way but how did you go about deciding what exhibits to put here. Because from what. I saw in comparing this. You've got a lot of high tech as you said interactive things in walls that jump out and kind of be words things. How did you decide what to include. Well i made a list when i had this idea. I started listing concepts. That i felt had to be in a museum about words language and so that started with early childhood language acquisition. That has to be here. And then where two words come from you know and and there. I focused on words in english in there. So many ways that words enter our lexicon and some of them are really fun and interesting and and that makes up our Talking wall exhibit all the old iphone. Georgia's this yes. It said words. That right sam as a da da in men women have justice school. Then i wanted to show the diversity of the world's spoken languages so that's our major gallery have thirty language ambassadors and includes to sign language users. And so that's the first floor. It's sort of about where words come from. And what do we use all over the world but then you go down to our second floor and it's all about what we can do with words what you can create with words so songwriting. Humor joke writing Oratory literature poetry. That's on our second floor. And those were you know natural ideas for what would be a museum of words and language and then on our lower floor because you start at the third floor and you work your way down. It's all about the power of words so we have advertising copywriting and words used to sell causes or to sell products and then we have our less gallery that's called words matter and it's real people telling the stories about how words and language had an impact in their lives and we have a recording booth in the middle of that gallery so we think that visitor will be so inspired and motivated by the experience of the museum to want to tell their own story about words in their life and so they can go in and record their story. Oh i love that. It's funny people say to me. By the way. I taught communications to journalism at columbia. Union college forbid and i took my students. If i was still there i would take them here. But i took my students to the national archives and library of congress and we're just in maryland and they had never been here and they were just amazed and they're looking at all these books in there you know. I had them play speeches. Because obviously it's communications class and had them play speeches and then get tips for their own presentations and you can see their faces. Just light up. I mean so of course declaration of independence the bill of rights etc people. Ask me how. I got into this business. And i joke that i've been reading and writing copy since pre birth because my dad had an ad agency when i was a kid in new york city. And i'm the youngest of four so he would poke copy out of the typewriter at the time and handed to the closest warm body. And say we this out loud to me. That's fun so. I'm convinced that i probably read. His copy is the first thing. I read out loud. And my mom. Who just recently passed supported my contention that she read. Copy out loud while i was in the womb. So it's very funny. So i've been on all sides of communication coins so when i saw this i was like yes. So what happens at planet word in our copywriting gallery are oratory gallery. Our songwriting gallery. Which is like a karaoke lounge is that you learn the techniques that make that song or that speech or that ad really effective and persuasive and so in our were tar gallery. We have a choice of eight speeches. Everything from fossa from the lion king to John f kennedy's inaugural address. And you know more historic speeches like that even during our darkest nights so all the girls watching here now to know. But i've been you know we've only been open three days. But i've been struck by how popular that exhibit is and people young and old are so excited to use a teleprompter and give one of those speeches and we we show the techniques people can actually read as if they're barack obama giving his speech or whatever and we have barack obama giving His two thousand four nominating speech at the democratic national convention. I was actually there for that. So you know how moving it was. There's no black americans. There is no white america. There's no red or blue it's purple. Yeah some of my journalistic colleagues. Who's people you would now. And i looked at each other when oh my god what did we just say yeah. I'm sure we'll all of his oratory in his race speech was really powerful to An fdr's of you know day that will live in infamy. Did you take any effort to make sure that you had women's speeches and women's writings particularly how did you go about choosing that. The hong museum is well our one of our core values inclusivity so everything in every gallery. We i can't say that we said okay. There's you know twenty five men so there will be twenty five women you know reading writing poetry or whatever but We have a lens through which we vetted every single Gallery and experience in the museum and that is really gender neutrality diversity of all types subject matter author speaker so it was always at the top of our list of what. Check off you know. Is this going to make it in the museum or get left on the cutting room floor. The proverbial cutting room floor. Up why i would love to be there for that conversation. It was months and months. I'm sure and it was probably really difficult. Because there's so much great material. I'm you've got maya angelou. From obama's inauguration all the way to malala yussef cetera and every age. I wish we were doing some video. Her face is just so. You're so lighting up. I mean you're you're just start your passion is just glorious and it's really fun to see people doing work that they have such passion for. I just had to say that it's true erie ear so talk about the ways that people can come here and get an appreciation. Maybe for their own ability to use language. Well there's nothing that would say that's right or wrong. We just want you to try different things and you know there are interactive videos that you interact with through your voice So they're seventeen of those videos in our galleries in there will be many more. We have two that are being written right now. And they're on important subjects about words and language that people should know about if they come to planet word but they didn't make it into a big huge immersive experience but so we have interactive video screens. That ask questions about dialects and implicit bias and forensic linguistics. Can you use language to solve crimes. Do animals have language and so they're quite topical and sometimes controversial subjects. But in every instance you are using your voice and talking back to the interactive screen and choosing your answers and then the narrator will tell you you know not that it's right or wrong but actually this is you know the the answer and this is why so we have some really fun interactive's especially about humor Teaching a robot. How to tell a joke. What's funny what is it joke made up of you know punchline and tag in a different things like that lead up and timing exactly the elements of a good joke telling. Oh that's great. It's also coming to mind. Is i several years ago. I lived in la for many years. In fact i worked at sixty minutes. They are and i did. A tour of would take people to the museum of tolerance. And i was friends with a gentleman who became the chief of police in la and they're boys had their own issues of course and i was telling him about this museum and i persuaded him to visit and they integrated into their training for diversity and inclusion and part of the reason was there's this extraordinary component of that museum where you walk through and they're holograms yell. Epithets you and you have an experience of what it feels like to receive this ugliness and it's transformative so as as you're talking about experiencing language and what it how it moves people that also comes to mind for me. We have in our gallery cupboards matter one of the storytellers talks about being bullied and Starting at a young age and being asked do you want to die and so really powerful stories like that about how hurtful language words can be and someone asks me. You know where idea came from and one of the things that happened in my life that led to this museum sort of roundabout is that we were living in jerusalem after almost five years in beirut where i you know traveled all over the middle east learned arabic and now we're in jerusalem and someone yelled at me because i looked like you know jewish non palestinian person and i just thought to myself. You don't know me you don't know what my values are where i just spent five years of my life. You didn't take any chance to talk to me or get to know me just looked at you know what i looked like and so i vowed then that when we moved back to the united states that i would do something to build community and that's when i started to teach. Oh that's a great story. That's a wonderful story. I love that that channeling that anger in that ugliness into something so positive. This is so beautiful. So before. I let you go. I know that from from knowing you previous to this. That environmentalism is a big issue for you. And i've both you and your husband with earth day network stuff in things in general and thomas written a great deal about. I noticed this big to both of you. So have you taken pains to integrate any sustainable features into the way you did the museum. You're reading a building that exists so you didn't build a new museum. That's one thing for sure you know. Because it's a national historic landmark and there are restrictions on what we can do on the interiors and total restrictions on the exterior that dc requires buildings and developers to achieve leed silver status. It's very difficult on building of the sort where you're restricted in what you can do. But we are We've exceeded as far as we know the point total for silver. You know that's not the greatest by the way to give people perspective. I saw assumes referring choice how the plaque outside that this is where alexander. Graham bell said the first message in eighteen eighty s. I recall his first wireless message. He used light waves. So wireless was born in this building you know. besides it's it's a national historic landmark. Two times over the first reason is because of its architecture was innovative school when it was built in eighteen. Sixty nine you can see the tall ceilings and all the light that flows into the building and that was very innovative and it's also has a lot of embellishments in cast iron beautiful work that would was unusual for a public school in sixty nine. Especially right in. That's reconstruction reeler and that's because the architect adolf clues believe that poor children. All children should learn in a beautiful environment. Not just rich kids. Oh i love. That isn't that. I have an interesting connection to the light part which i'll tell you kind. Blow your mind a little bit. But tell us about the message. Sending the wireless message sending so in eighteen eighty alexander. Graham bell sent a message using light to an associate a couple blocks away and that was successful and he called that invention the photo phone. It never really became anything. But it is considered the first example of a wireless communication and he said at the time was so prescient. This invention is more important than the telephone. He knew that wireless would be that important right. It's transformed our lives ago. Did he send wers and morse code. What did he actually send. How was that message constructive. That i can't tell you exactly but it was words so Just to put a kind of fun exclamation mark on that story. Physicists enjoy my last name because my great great uncle was the first american scientists to win the nobel prize and he did because he measured drummer. Plays the speed of light. Wow he is literally the c. n. equals mc squared. Well so you kind of have a little connection to alexander graham bell experiment here you know. He probably had to use some of that background. And in fact it was the the measurement was just around the same time albert graduated the naval academy. He went to nail academy and he was if not he may have been the first jewish person by the way to go to the naval academy which was part of his whole story there but he graduated. I believe in eighteen seventy three and then he did a lot of this work at university of chicago and it case western and he won the nobel in nineteen seven. He was the first scientist from america to win the nobel prize. Congratulations what a legacy. I even feel more kinship to this building. It's like light words planet. I'm i'm all in and you also asked about other things that we've done so we have a green roof in serve along the perimeter of the terraces. So what does that mean grass. No it's plants. You know different plants that See them you know the usual green roof plants. But they're very pretty and we have beautiful carpet up there and you know we have a very advanced. Hvac system within the restrictions of what you could do to to the bill there now restrictions on on that you know everyone knew that we had to bring this building up to present-day standards especially fire safety ones but we have new systems everywhere. I'm seeing obviously there's a lot of light use. led lights and things like that everywhere Terrific do you have any kind of a food facility here. I realize it's you know in the midst of the pandemic. You might not have a cafe open. We did just sign a lease with immigrant food so that restaurant should open mood. What a great name i love. It's an existing restaurant near the white house. And they'll open their second three inch at planet word in spring. Oh how fabulous and so. It's a perfect alignment of missions of. That's great so in closing. You're saying that we start if you will at the top and work our way down. And what do you want people to leave the planet word with what's your what's your ideal experienced takeaway so interestingly that you start on the third floor and you end on the first floor that's ground level. I want you to go out on the streets of washington and be more empathetic to what you hear around you to be more careful with the words that you yourself use and to be part of a community so is really you know symbolic that you start on the third floor and you exit into our present day world. Where how you use. Words can make a big difference bryant. And that's a perfect way to close because words matter. thank you. And it's the story of my life. That's for sure accu so much. And friedman ceo visionary founder developer of planet word. Here in dc. And i encourage everyone to visit Excited for us. Walk around and do our own tour have fun. Thank you i will. I will so thank you so much for joining us. On green connections radio i'm joan michaelson. See you next time in please. Everybody stay safe and take care of each other. This message of empathy is important. See you next time.

twelve year john michaelson museum of mathematics aaron space new york city washington minnesota barack obama america hong museum Monmouth friedman malala the new york times Union college John f kennedy dc maya angelou new york Graham bell
59. Faith Displayed As Science: How Creationists Co-opted Museums with Julie Garcia

Museum Archipelago

14:01 min | 2 years ago

59. Faith Displayed As Science: How Creationists Co-opted Museums with Julie Garcia

"Welcome to museum archipelago. I'm UNLV dinner. Museum archipelago guides you through the rocky landscape of museums. Each episode is never longer than fifteen minutes. So let's get started. There's a new tool in younger with creationist quest for scientific legitimacy, the museum over the past twenty five years, dozens of so called creation, museums have been built most of them in the US, barring the style of natural history, museums, and science centers, these public display spaces use the form and rhetoric of mainstream science to support a belief in the literal truth of the bible, including the creation of the universe in six days, about six thousand years ago on museum. Let's creationist speak directly to the people in unfiltered and unchallenged way, just by being able to put all this inside something that's called museum and use the sort of trappings of science, it really gives creationism that additional feel of legitimacy and credibility that it might not otherwise have this is Julie Garcia and her interest in both evolution and the people who vehemently deny. It led her to explore. Why museums are particularly well suited medium for creationist ideas. My name is Julie Garcia. I was formerly known as Julie Duncan at the time that I wrote my senior thesis which was called faith displayed as science, the role of the creation, museum in the modern American creationist movement Garcia grew up in Kentucky, and as an undergrad at Harvard. She decided to become a history and science, major at other colleges, that's known as history and philosophy of science, which is basically just the study of what science is, and why we trusted and what are different ways of knowing the world for me, part of the reason I had gone into it because I had always had a fascination with evolution. And I had also had a corresponding fascination with wise Sony people so vehemently, didn't like Evelyn. And why so many people? To the point of thirty forty sometimes fifty percent in certain holes believe in creationism. I was prompted to write this thesis when in probably two thousand six or so I heard that in my backyard in Boone county, Kentucky answers in Genesis, a creationist organization was going to be building the largest creation museum in the world known as the answers in Genesis, creation, museum, a twenty seven million dollar facility over many acres about ten minutes from my house to answers in Genesis, creation, museum, also known as just the creation museum opened in two thousand seven in its first year. It reported four hundred thousand visitors I eventually decided coming into the summer of two thousand eight before my senior year that I would spend that summer traveling to back home to Kentucky to visit the creation museum there and three other creation museums around the. S the creation evidence museum in Glen, rose, Texas dinosaur adventure land, and the related creation, museum in Pensacola, Florida and the institute for creation research, which is near San Diego, California. So that's kind of how it all started. And, and I spent the summer two thousand eight visiting those and talking to people and, and learning about the four different idioms Garcia chose these four museums for their stylistic differences, and for their geographical diversity and each one, she viewed the exhibits and talk to the founders and staff, then analyzed highlighted the messages in methods common to all of the museums, there was some trepidation before I went because I was worried that by disclosing that I was not a creationist that they would assume that I was out to write a smear piece on their museums, which, honestly, when I read my thesis, now I think there are certain things that I would now phrase differently that came off snark. Earlier than I think I would write them now but everyone was very kind to me and they were all very eager to show me everything that they had built. And they were very proud of it. I came away from it thinking, you know, these, these are very, nice people with whom I just disagree. But that's the thing that kind of stuck in my mind. The most is that everyone. I talked to was very nice, and obviously very faithful and believe completely in what was being shown in the museum's too. I did feel uncomfortable seeing all the children there. It's one thing I've Asli for adults to decide what they believe and do whatever they want with those beliefs and feel very strongly about them and, and teach them to others. It was just a little troubling to MIR disheartening to see young children. Very impressionable learning things that I personally consider to be contrary to science undoubtedly contrary to. Established mainstream science. But of course, that's kind of the purpose of these museums amphora for museums, heavily featured dinosaurs either in audio neutron ick form or as fossils, this is not just because of the time, compression of geological ages present in young earth creationism, it is also because dinosaurs, attract the public, particularly children to these museums. The founder of the answers in Genesis, creation, museum, Ken ham calls dinosaurs. Missionary lizards for their attention getting power. Yes, I did feel some discomfort seeing kids being kind of explicitly told. Hey, these dinosaurs were alive, six thousand years ago. And people were riding them like an answers in Genesis. They actually have a triceratops toward the end of the Newseum with addle on it, and you can sit on it, and take a picture, and it's, it's not a joke. It is a representation of what the museum says, you know, would've been a typical. Pre-flood diorama, where humans were living together with dinosaurs. All of them basically said in different ways Dr Hoven from guidance sword. Bench Linden, Florida and an ham from answers in Genesis both. Very explicitly said, the, the purpose of using things like dinosaurs is to attract the children to bring them in, you know, then again with distance now I can acknowledge that that is true of secular museums, too. That's why we're all fighting over who's going to buy for several million dollars. The best specimen of T, Rex and so on, because we all know dinosaurs cell. But at the same time, given the counter narrative being told at these museums about dinosaurs and humans living together. Yes, I did feel some discomfort to why build a museum Garcia argues that there are three significant and interrelated reasons. The first museums are seen as credible. Museums really have a long. History in the US ads places of scientific research and public education in the twentieth, century. They were sometimes referred to as cathedrals of science this idea that they were buildings where we set for, you know, the best of human knowledge, and human endeavor, and everything that, that the collective knowledge of our species was placed in these, these buildings for everyone to see and to learn from so simply by attaching that phrase that word museum it just automatically gives what's inside the building a sheen in Fred ability, that otherwise wouldn't have if it were called a theme park or a bible center or something like that. The second reason also relates to the focus on dinosaurs. Museums are more entertaining than school, bible study, or bible school. It's kind of entertaining that a lot of teachers. Are going to like a lot of parents and teachers, they want an educational experience for kids. And so a lot of parents who might not want to spend the money to take kids to what they feel. It is kind of a frivolous day. The theme park can get behind the idea of taking them to a museum where they're going to be learning about science, and they're going to be learning wholesome things, and kind of bettering themselves now going along with that. The entertainment value is a decent amount of money. At least that's the time that I was writing my thesis. I know that evangelical were the primary audience for a market of about four billion dollars a year in the religious entertainment industry. The final reason going directly to the people number three. I think honestly might even be the most important of them, which is that a museum let's creationist speak directly to the people in. Unfiltered and kind of unchallenged way. And I think this is a large part of a larger movement away from what creationist had been doing, which was bringing these challenges in the court system. They in the sixties. Seventies eighties had suffered a string of kind of stinging defeats the court when things go right? A legal proceeding designed to get to the truth, and part of getting to the truth is subjecting, subjecting assertions to rigorous cross-examination and you have someone sitting up there, the judge who makes rulings about what is a good argument and what's not, and can keep certain evidence out and can rule on who qualifies as an expert. And those were things that weren't going well for. Creationist you know, after they lost a number of these cases, they started moving more toward this museum model. And I think that is because there is no cross examination in a museum in fact, there is no opposite point of view. If you don't want to give it, there's no requirement that you describe, how other people see evidence or that you respond to criticisms of the way that you are presenting your point of view, being able to go directly to your audience without a middleman is one of the main ways the media landscape more broadly has changed. There's now more space for viewpoints that used to be far outside the mainstream to directly attract their own audience, and it doesn't have to be on the level of a single institution. Either Garcia talks about guides to scientifically informed museums zoos and aquariums for sale in the creation, museum's gift shop. Meant to be used at these other institutions for alternative Biblically, correct interpretations of their displays. I know that in addition to those printouts that you can purchase through enters in Genesis in other sources. There are also some organizations that provide these tours such as a group called Biblically correct tours that does tours of natural history, museums. And my understanding of how these were is that essentially, it's an offshoot of this idea of the two model approach, which is the idea that evolution and creationism are two competing philosophies, and that they essentially look at the same evidence, but they just draw different conclusions. And so, by having a sort of Biblically, correct tour of the museum dis organizations, explain how creationism is not opposed to SCI this in their view. You because they know that Americans for the most part like science, nobody wants to be anti science. So if anybody disagrees about things like climate change, or Evelyn, h-, usually, the way that it is phrase is not. Well, I don't like science and I just reject science. It's more. Well, I take a different view of the science and, you know, there are two sides to the story and I follow this interpretation, and so on. It's not just that museum goers, like science Garcia points out that audiences tend to trust information more if it's presented in a high tech style. In her conclusion, there see a rights that it seems probable that in the years to come. We will see the construction of more museums, most likely in the high tech style of the answers in Genesis creation museum, which has proven to be quite lucrative now. It's easier for people through media like Twitter and through buildings like their own. Creation, museums to kind of claim the same sort of authority and have an impact that they otherwise might not have, you know, in the past, where they wouldn't they wouldn't have had that ability to get their message out this has been museum archipelago. You can find show notes and a full transcript of this episode at museum, archipelago dot com. If you liked this episode you can support the show and get some fun benefits like logo stickers and the bonus podcast feed by joining club archipelago on patriarch special, thanks to club, archipelagos, newest member and host of the excellent museums in strange places podcast. Hannah half man. Thanks for listening and next time. Bring a friend.

Julie Garcia creation museum Genesis creation museum US UNLV Kentucky Florida Evelyn Julie Duncan Twitter Ken ham Boone county Texas Harvard Sony founder Pensacola MIR San Diego Dr Hoven
The higher ed wealth gap

Marketplace Morning Report with David Brancaccio

08:40 min | 2 years ago

The higher ed wealth gap

"This marketplace podcast is brought to you by. Indeed, are you hiring with? Indeed, you can post a job in minutes set up screener questions than zero in on your shortlist of qualified candidates using an online dashboard get started today at indeed dot com slash marketplace. That's indeed dot com slash marketplace. And by Sunpro from Pitney Bowes, Sunpro online software makes it easy to save time and money print shipping, labels and stamps, right? From your desk and access discounted rates. Tried for free for thirty days and get a free ten pound scale when you visit PBA dot com slash morning. That's PB dot com slash morning. The gap between rich and poor college edition. I'm David Brancaccio in New York. A study out today finds US universities and colleges brought in record charitable donations in the last accounting year, but the contributions are not spread evenly. There were clustered within a small select group of schools. Marketplace's Nancy Marshall genzer is following this anti let me guess which schools are getting all the money the most elite colleges and universities, of course. And David this is according to a survey from the council for advancement and support of education. Harvard leads the list, it raked in most one and a half billion dollars Stanford and Columbia were right behind Harvard. In fact, according to the Wall Street Journal eighteen percent of all the donations last year went to less than one percent of US colleges and universities just ten schools. What's feeding donation inequality? Then well these donors get to decide where there money. Will go many times they went to these elite schools, but one of the surveys directors is quoted as saying that these top schools are multifaceted. They may have research facilities hospitals, or even museums that people wanna give money to and let's face it many of these donors like the idea of having their name on a hospital the word museum wing what about the other schools? Well, community colleges are not top targets for these donors. They educate a much bigger slice of the population. Though. Some of these donors are specifying that their money be used to help low income students enrolled in these elite universities. That's what Michael Bloomberg is doing with his one point eight billion dollar gift to Johns Hopkins University, but they're still just helping us small number of students. Nancy? Thank you. Now. Remember the space race, call it. The a I raised today. President Trump's expected to sign an executive order telling federal agencies to prioritize artificial intelligence research fellowships apprentice. Ships computer, science education could be parts of this with other countries, including China working hard in this area. Congress would have to come up with the money. Let's check the markets. The one hundred share index in London is up five tenths percent. Dow SNP NASDAQ futures are each up about three tenths percent construction companies are set to keep hiring in two thousand nineteen amid still growing demand. That's according to a recent survey by the associated general contractors of America, but there are plans, and then there's reality that same study finds about eighty percent of those companies are having a hard time finding workers from the marketplace hub at W CPN idea stream Adrian Ma reports from Cleveland. The temperature is below freezing. At a construction site in downtown Cleveland where workers from a company called Don lease or helping to build a new apartment tower. CEO MAC Donelly knows that when the weather finally turns warm, there will be even more construction projects. So he has a team fulltime recruiters looking to hire for jobs, like Labour's cement, Masons, and carpenters, you need to stay in front of it at this point. You cannot be we act over your competitions going to go right by in this tight labor market contractors around the country are paying more to attract skilled tradesmen and women the average salary for a pipe welder has increased more than ten percent since two thousand fifteen and for sheet metal worker's pay is up more than eighteen percent. That's according to surveys by the nonprofit National Center for construction education and research still even if a company is willing to pay for the best it often as the settle for what it can get. And that's why the industry is spending much more now on training, Ken Simonson is. Chief economist for the associated general contractors of America. He says companies are investing more in less experienced workers because there is growing backlog of demand for construction of both public buildings private buildings infrastructure and apartments when deep demand meets shallow labor pool. You have to get creative. Arthur Lindros heads the firm Bolton Pratt. There were times. Last year, we hired carpenters from other companies to work on the weekends just to keep up with our workload. He says he's even Lord workers out of retirement to help finish the job not ideal. But an example of how personal connections can make a difference on that score Irian Patrick says she likes to send birthday cards to current and former employees of her company aka team, you believe the response, and how many people appreciate that. They're they're like I've worked with a company for ten years or twenty nobody ever acknowledged me like that. And when they need a job she says, hopefully, they'll acknowledge her. Her by signing up for work in Cleveland. I'm Adrienne Ma for marketplace. This. Marketplace podcast is brought to you by Kronos, FMLA F, L essay ACA, see it's harder than ever for businesses to keep up with today's evolving eleborate soup of regulations. What's a company to do? Kronos. With Cronos you can minimize compliance risk and track HR policies making sure they're applied consistently and fairly HR payroll talent and time keeping in one unified system all with a proven implementation approach and simplified transparent pricing. Learn more at Kronos dot com slash compliance. Kronos, workforce innovation that works. Now to lives saved by breast cancer, screening and treatment appear reviewed study of mortality data and the journal cancer today finds that since nineteen eighty nine between three hundred thousand five hundred thousand lives were saved. But researchers say it's possible to do better marketplaces. Jack Stewart reports research has pulled the numbers on breast cancer survival all the way back to nineteen thousand nine to see the impact improved screening and treatment is having Jay bak- is the chief of breast imaging juke University Medical Center. He's one of the co authors of the reports it's only now that we're really realizing that what seems like dry numbers really translates into an incredibly large population of women the figures show as many as six hundred fourteen thousand lives have been saved screening mammography has also been shown to have other benefits beyond saving lives because the cancer is cold before it can spread metastasized the low of the need for annex. Expensive treatments. But over a quarter of a million women still get breast cancer every year, Dr Deborah roads. At the mayo clinic is working to develop more advanced imaging most of the research now is focusing on treating metastatic disease, and I feel that that's putting the cart and the horse in the wrong order. She says the with a screening we still haven't reached the limits of how many lives can be saved on Jack's Jew for marketplace. According to Russia's business news channel that country's gonna briefly, unplug. The internet in Russia's sometime between now and the first of April a Russian law requires authorities to be able to separate the internet in Russia from the rest of the world in case of cyber attack or other situations. This test would be if that works the US publications ZD net which spotted the Russian report says the system is set up to allow Russian authorities to inspect all content to see if it's domestic New York. I'm David Brancaccio with the marketplace morning report. From APM American public media. This marketplace podcast is brought to you by Sunpro by Pitney Bowes, Sunpro online software makes it easy to save time and money, no matter what you ship or mail print shipping, labels and stamps, right? From your desk and access discounted rates. Try it for free for thirty days and get a free ten pound scale when you visit PBA dot com slash morning. That's PB dot com slash morning.

US David Brancaccio Cleveland Kronos PBA Nancy Marshall genzer Russia America Sunpro Pitney Bowes Kronos dot Wall Street Journal Jack Stewart Pitney Bowes Michael Bloomberg Harvard cancer New York Johns Hopkins University Columbia
64. Kennedy Space Center's Space Shuttle Atlantis Experience Is Part Museum, Part Themed Attraction

Museum Archipelago

13:33 min | 2 years ago

64. Kennedy Space Center's Space Shuttle Atlantis Experience Is Part Museum, Part Themed Attraction

"Welcome to museum. Archipelago. I'm Ian Elsner. Museum archipelago guides you through the rocky landscape of museums. Each episode is never longer than fifteen minutes. So let's get started. We're going to start today's episode with a thought experiment. Think of a museum, the first museum, you think what does it look like hold that thought now think of theme park. How different do they look from each other. My guess is pretty different. But the Kennedy Space Center visitor complex in Cape Canaveral. Florida has aspects of both on the one hand it's a museum galleries, featuring spacecraft historic launch pads and the complete Saturn five rocket laid out in an enormous room. But on the other hand, it's a themed attraction, a destination featuring ride like simulators fiend concession stands, and the new space, shuttle Atlantis experience. It's as if the complex only a short drive away from Orlando Florida is competing for visitors against one of the Globes, most effective themed attractions, Walt DisneyWorld as it. Turns out not everyone mentally separates museums, and the parks. So discreetly avenue view about the relationship between entertainment and education. This is Tom Owen, a vice president of PGA, destinations who worked on that. New space, shuttle, Atlantis experience at Kennedy Space Center. Oh, my name is Tom Owen. I'm a vice president with PJ destinations. My background is in theaters scenery and lighting design provider. And so I've been able to incorporate that the ethical thinking into my work with museums, and zoos and aquariums and theme parks early the entire time. I've been here. So that's that's been a lot of fun. It's not surprising that someone who works in both museums and theme parks, would see similarities between the two but I am surprised that Owen doesn't see the world divided between education and entertainment. I think that entertainment is a great way to educate people if it was just the dry, fax, people would get bored and leave. You know. So entertainment doesn't. Finnish education. In fact, I think it, it often times makes it more effective. We believe that you can actually learn quite a few things from theme parks and themed attractions if you can appeal to emotions or connect people with people, there's opportunity for learning in all types of attractions. This is Diane Lochner, who is also vice president at PG, and she also worked on the space, shuttle, Atlantis experience. Hello, my name's Diane. Lochner I'm a vice president at PJ, V destinations PJ, be works on designing destinations and attractions where people spend their leisure time. My background is actually an architecture. I'm a registered architect. And so might intrigue is the understanding of the built environment, but how that impacts visitors as they're working their way through attractions and museums and the space shuttle, Atlantis experience can be described as both a themed attraction. And as a museum the exhibit. Which opened in twenty thirteen features one of the three remaining shuttle orbiters, the white part of the US, spatial system that looks like a giant glider Lochner, and the rest of the design team use principles of famed attraction design to introduce visitors to the orbiter. So we made some conscious decisions about how to introduce people to the shuttle itself. It's a it's a very scripted linear experience prior to witnessing the shuttle, and that was intentional because we needed to emotionally prepare the visitors to accept the information that they were going to learn about the shuttle, and so before anybody actually sees the shuttle itself. There is a short pre show film that gave a little bit of information, mostly about the, the people that were involved in designing the shuttle, it's not heavy it's, it's not deep. It's not long. And then they move into another theater, that is got a very inspirational film again, about the shuttle, and the launch. On some of the sequence of the process of the shuttle, and then, and then finally, at the end of that film, the shuttle is reveal very dramatically this type of time control with required. Film reminds me of a more, recent example, George Washington's headquarters tent displayed at the museum of the American revolution in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. This tent is presented in its own feeder, with screens and projections. If the tent with simply set up in the gallery, without the focused attention, people would just walk right past it. But by making large production out of it with lights screens and sounds, the effect is a viscerally memorable experience. Now back to the spatial Lantis, the image on the screen actually sort of aligns with the space shuttle, beyond at the end of the film, the screen actually lifts up and the visitors are presented nose to nose. So to speak with space shuttle, Atlantis. It's really been an interesting thing to watch. Visitors by and cry as that screen lifts up and reveals the shuttle, we created that really important preparation so that people were ready to receive the information in sort of start to learn and start their experience at spatial Atlanta's after the screen dramatically lifts up revealing the orbiter visits pass through a hallway, the screen used to be, and enter the Atlantis display after which they are free to wander through the entire gallery. The main idea of the gallery is that the US spatial system with an innovative program designed to use spacecraft so that the frequency of going to space, could increase an astronaut's could get more work done in space. The main takeaway, about the space shuttle, Atlantis attraction was the idea that the individual orbiters the, the thing that looks like the airplane, that everybody thinks of as the shuttle was part of a system, and that whole purpose of that whole shuttle program was working in space. And so we depicted Atlantis. As a workhorse. In fact, the way that we chose to, to display, it was banked at a dramatic banking, and with the payload bay doors, open, telescopic, arm, deployed just as it would have been at the moment that it was selling away from the international space station. So that, that message of, of Atlantis at work was a powerful image that we wanted to in ingrained in the minds of people every exhibit that was designed had to be approved by Nastase stem education team. So there was a again, a very strong interest that people learn and, and that, but also that the project would inspire the next generation of space exploration, that the project wasn't designed for people that are already space enthusiasts are already knew a lot about space. It was really designed, for the most part for people that we wanted to inspire, so that they would become space enthusiasts and maybe take an interest in stem or maybe even take an interest in. Career in the space program. So here's that middle part of the ven diagram the intersection of themed attraction and museum, the shuttle, Atlantis experience is educational, and it deals with a set of historical events, but heavily relies on some of the principles of themed attraction design to get the point across fundamentally, I see themed attractions as engineer the to create a specific emotional response in visitors and through that they offering a scape from the real world. They are chance for us to enter a fictional world, frontier land on the old west themed land in the magic kingdom at DisneyWorld never actually existed. But the clever trick is to make it feel like a lift in space that has its own history while I'm in a fictional world. Even the smallest thing that reminds me of the real world takes me out of the Aleutian and hilariously sometimes a theme park will even go so far as to put fake historical markers, and even museums that describe. People and events that never happened. But nevertheless, led to what the environment looks like today, but when I'm learning about the real world. I'm not sure the same strategies always apply. The real world is messy and the study of history, for example, is not amusing in episode seventeen of museum archipelago. I covered the spectacular failure of a Disney theme park concept called Disney's America in the early nineties, Disney's misguided idea would have put a park, showcasing, quote, the sweep of American history, including the institution of slavery. And the civil war within the fun, fem- park environment just outside Washington. DC Cortlandt Milroy writing in a series of Washington Post editorial about the then plan, Disney's America around nineteen Ninety-three brought out the inherent contradiction of the project. Merging fund out with a view into American history. He writes against the backdrop of continuing distortion of African American history. Which includes awful, textbooks and self-induced 'em. Nesia about the legacy of slavery, a slave exhibit by Disney doesn't even sound right by contrast, the US space program happens to be an example of a much less problematic history that as a result, works displayed in the themed attraction setting and one on US government property, not at DisneyWorld being shuttle astronaut was extremely risky of the five shuttle orbiters that have gone into space, only three of them are still around to display in museums. But nobody became a shuttle astronaut by accident and since the failed Disney's America concept, the big parks, have stayed out of attractions, based on real life histories, or at least relatively recent real life histories, instead, they have blurred the lines between various destination types by switching modes both Owen and Lochner, seal world where competition for visitors leads museums to focus more on creating that specific emotional response. You. Find in famed attractions. Museums are beginning to investigate other attractions relative to relative to continuing to capture more visitors certainly the ones that were talking to in the most recent projects, they are really beginning to understand that they might have to do some things that are a little more out of their norm relative to, to appealing to visitors because they still wanna make sure that obviously, they are achieving their goals, relative educational standards and things like that, but, but certainly the competition for time has really increased. So I think I think in general museums are starting to think about different ways of, of curing the experience for individuals in really beginning to connect to, to visitors emotions in, in different ways. Even though the, the objective of busy of may not be for providers to come in and learn something or at least not. To, to be able to go down a list of facts that they learned about a certain topic, which, you know, somebody might say his is their objective. I think people learn things going to parks. For example, if a if a kid is at a certain age, where they're they've been fearful of roller coasters, but they did they get brave, and they decide to, to get on a roller coaster. They're learning something important important about themselves. And the fact that they're put into a an experienced, it's really special and over the top, and different from their everyday experience, it inspires them at an opens up their, their world of thinking when thinking about museums as a medium. It's useful to look at theme parks to he parks and themed attractions are an incredibly young medium. And I if wonderful look back at the recent big immersive theme park experiences like the Wisden world of Harry Potter and the new galaxies edge Star Wars land and see a golden age of themed attractions, like the golden. Ages of film, gone by what role museums plan all this remains to be seen, but it all comes down to what people think of when they hear the word museum at the beginning of this episode what did you think of museums will continue to resist categorization? But I wonder if the trend for the largest, most visited and best funded museums of the world will continue to be towards themed, attractions, the carefully choreographed visitor experience at the space shuttle, Atlantis might make its way to history, museums. And when that happens, you'll hear about it on museum archipelago. Club archipelago members get access to a bonus podcast feed this week, on club archipelago, a collection of thoughts about the role of trust between people sponsoring exhibits who are emotionally close to the topics and outside contractors who do the nuts and bolts. Join today at patriotair dot com slash museum. Archipelago. This has been museum are Pelivan. You'll find a full transcript of this episode belong with shown at museum, archipelago dot com. If this is your first show, don't forget to subscribe for free in your favorite podcast player. Thanks for listening and next time. Bring a friend.

Tom Owen US vice president Disney Kennedy Space Center Diane Lochner Ian Elsner slash museum America Cape Canaveral Florida Pelivan George Washington PG Orlando Florida PJ Philadelphia
SciFri Extra: Science Diction On The Word 'Meme'

Science Friday

13:42 min | 1 year ago

SciFri Extra: Science Diction On The Word 'Meme'

"I there today. We've got a little treat in store for all the word nerds out there. We're launching a special series called science fiction a bite sized podcasts about words and the science stories behind them he episode will feature a single word and how it came to be and the science. That happened along the way for example. Do you know where the word cell comes from. The scientists looked at a piece of cork under a microscope and up close. The Cork looked like a bunch of tiny boxes and they reminded him of where monks would sleep which were called sales. I just love that stuff. And that's the sort of thing you'll be hearing in science fiction and if you like what you hear today and you just can't wait till next week to get your hands on more stories like these subscribe to Science Fiction. You can listen to all four episodes of the first season right now. Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. So now I'm turning over the Mike to a resident word nerd here. It's science Friday Johanna Mayor. She'll be bringing you this series once a week for the next month so stay tuned for some wordy nerdy goodness. I think you're GONNA like it. The first word we're diving into is mean. Here's science-fiction if you've been on the Internet at all the past few years. This song is ingrained in your brain. The original Gangnam style video has been viewed over three billion times and it spawned endless parodies versions inspired by video games and former presidential candidates and even the more working farmer style since Gangnam Style's Heyday in twenty twelve. Approximately a gazillion. Memes have circulated the Internet and we think of memes as a phenomenon that's particularly born and bred online but it turns out the word meme didn't actually come from the Internet. It came from an evolutionary biologist from science Friday this science-fiction. I'm Johanna Mayor Today. We're talking about the word You've probably used the word mean to talk about all sorts of stuff that you see online but first let's clear something up what exactly is an Internet meme That's an interesting question. So I think of an Internet NEOM as a unit of Internet culture a piece of Internet culture that spreads through Internet people or people on the Internet making their own versions of it. That's Gretchen McCulloch. Ick She's an internet linguist coolest job ever and she wrote a really great book called because Internet so a meme spreads through people making other versions of it and people putting their own spin on it. You don't just copy the thing that's been sent like the original Gangnam style video you remake it to appeal to your particular subculture or to appeal to some other group of people or two mashed up with some other type of me. Like Super Mario Style or Romney's style. Last time you have to hear that I promise okay. So what is the connection to science? Here let's talk about that evolutionary biologist. I mentioned you've probably heard of Richard Dawkins he wrote a book called the God delusion. He's said some pretty controversial things about religion but before all that he worked on evolutionary theory and animal behavior so in the seventies he wrote a book called the selfish gene and we know how gene spread every time that a plant or animal or really any living thing reproduces it makes a copy of its genes the more reproduces the more copies of these genes. There are running around. That's the gist of evolution. But in the book Dawkins talks about how the principles of evolution could work for other things too. 'cause jeans aren't the only thing that spread and evolve ideas do to darkens was looking for an ideological counterpart to the idea of a gene. So he wanted to use the analogy of a gene spreading through sexual selection and physical reproductive fitness to apply this to the spread of Ideas. So when it comes to biology that thing that's spreading and reproducing and evolving and competing was called a gene but when it came to culture and ideas. There was an a word for that thing. So Richard Dawkins made one up. He borrowed the Greek word. Me Mama which means imitation and mashed together with our English word Gene Me Mama plus gene equals but when Richard Dawkins coined the word mean. He didn't quite mean what we mean when we talk about Internet today. I obviously didn't have to be on the Internet because the Internet didn't exist but also the original meam didn't have to go viral or get remixed for Dawkins a meme was simply an idea and ideas like genes can spread or they can die out the CA- mutate or they can stay the same so in the original idea. A whole lot of things could count as memes songs recipes. The custom of saying bless you when someone sneezes or the idea that the earth is flat even the idea of God. These are all memes swimming around and competing in what doctrines would call the mean pool. Obviously all these things existed before dachshunds came up with that word. One of my favorite examples starts in shipyard in Massachusetts with a guy named James J Kilroy there are tons of different versions of the story but generally the most agreed upon one begins during World War Two when Kilroy was working as a ship. Inspector when he finished inspecting a ship he would mark it with the words. Kilroy was here. You know to show that he was finished and those ships that in marked we get sent into battle and those words would go with them and then next to the words a cartoon Kilroy began popping up all over in various countries and it was more or less the same every time it was the doodle of a man with googly eyes and along. Dopey knows kind of a smattering of hairs on a bald head peeking over a fence always next to this cartoon dude where the words. Kilroy was here. Pretty much anywhere. The allied soldiers showed up. Kilroy did too. So memes existed way. Before Richard Dawkins hit the scene. He just gave them a name in the dock and sense. A mean is just an idea. It's not the strictly speaking Internet type of mean that we think of it now. So adoptions mean could be the idea that the earth revolves around the sun and that's not an internet me right. The the idea that the earth is very boring Internet. Meme NOT GONNA Redo. It doesn't mean like it doesn't come with a fun video. It doesn't come with a dance. It doesn't come with the cats. There are no cats. There's no like like weird. Photoshop taxed on top of an image. There's no sort of lake stylized thing. Okay so it's not the best Internet meme but the way that Dawkins originally meant mean just as an idea. Heliocentric definitely is a me and a very successful one at that so why do we associate that word with stuff that we do online for a long time? Me Just wasn't aware that a lot of people were using. It was a made up term in a book about evolution published in the seven days pre Internet pre twitter and selfish gene was popular book. But it was still a relatively specific group of people who were exposed to that word. What you see in a lot of meam histories is omitting this link. They go from dachshunds directly to the Internet memes sense and I've always kind of unsatisfying because it's like how did this concept in social science research suddenly become the name of an Internet cultural phenomenon? Like weird that how did crossover it crossed over. Thanks to a guy named Mike Godwin. He's a lawyer and writer who works on a lot of Internet issues. And in the ninety s he noticed this trend happening in conversations in various corners of the Internet people kept making really gratuitous comparisons to the Nazis. Select say the pizza's up. And it's like kind of cold and slimy and not very good and then someone would say we're being treated like concentration camp victims that kind of thing so Godwin wrote an article about this whole phenomenon. People Making Bad Nazi comparisons and he published in the Tech magazine wired and he called the phenomenon amine an idea that spread so this is a reminder that not all memes are good and funny and lighthearted bad ideas can be memes too so as far as we know. That's the first time that the word meme Kinda crossed into the Internet. Godwin plucked up this word museum. This tiny kernel from a more than three hundred page book about evolutionary biology. Any plotted into this entirely new ecosystem. The Internet I really wish that I could tell you the exact big bang moment for memes as we know them online. It's impossible to pinpoint the precise moment. But maybe this song rings a Bell. Remember the dancing baby. Cgi fall where another mother diaper grooving to Swedish rock song. The dancing baby sometimes does Baby Cha. Cha is widely cited as one of the first Internet. Memes to really make the rounds bugging its way into email inboxes everywhere m people started playing around with dancing baby. There is a drunk dancing baby. Dancing baby became a kind of recurring hallucination on the TV show alley mcbeal and someone even made version of the baby. That was dancing to Gangnam style. Don't worry not GonNa play that song again. Memes have changed a lot since the dancing baby but the Internet is still where we primarily. Use The word today usually to talk about pictures of cats cheeseburgers or distracted boyfriends and Internet. Memes are great. They are so fine. They provide an excellent distraction. When you're pretending to work but are actually just goofing around online but when we use that word team we're actually talking about something so much. Bigger names are ideas. There are culture and that makes them as fundamental to our humanity as our genes which might sound super weird to someone not familiar with the Richard Dawkins origin story and. Hey that is the best part of the story. How the word meam itself has spread and evolved over the decades since Dawkins coined debt in a recent anniversary edition of the selfish gene. Dawkins wrote about how the word itself seems to have caught on the word. Meme he wrote. Seems to be turning out to be a good meme. Science fiction is written and produced by me. Johanna mayor with production and editing help from fetter. Our senior editor is Christopher Intel. Yada and we had additional story editing from Nathan Toby. Our theme song most of our music or by Daniel Peterson and additional music. Credits are on our website. Fact checking help from Michelle Harrah's for more stories like these subscribed to science-fiction wherever you get your podcasts. Special thanks to Gretchen McCulloch IQ for more word nursery in your life. Checkout her book because Internet and our podcast length Uzi Azam. Thanks also to the entire science Friday staff. Thanks so much for listening and we'll see you next time with a new episode and a new word.

Richard Dawkins Mike Godwin Science Fiction James J Kilroy Gangnam Style Gretchen McCulloch Gangnam Cork Johanna mayor Uzi Azam Michelle Harrah Nathan Toby Daniel Peterson Massachusetts senior editor Romney Photoshop Cha
Bookmaking boom

Monocle 24: Section D

29:28 min | 1 year ago

Bookmaking boom

"<music> this is monaco on design. Monocle weekly show dedicated to the best in architecture industrial design graphics and fashion. I'm josh bennett coming up today and they identified or identified to them. A serious issue of pathogens is needing sunglasses. Ali strafford editor in chief of the lustrous design quarterly desert neo is in studio unpacking few design minded fines for the summer plus us too foamy. Those books remind me to experiment because to experiment to try things and even to make mistakes. I think that is crucial so if you want to developing dipping back into a discussion with a boom the dutch design maestro whose majestic work on the printed page is under the title the queen of books long may she reign that coming up right here on monocle design on monocle twenty four do stay tuned and a very warm welcome to on design. We're beginning today's program with a survey of some of the bigger design stories. Perhaps some you've missed this week a month. I'm delighted to say that i'm joined in studio by friend of the show scholar and editor in chief of that fabulous design quarterly design. You only holly stratford. Welcome back. Thanks much the warm welcome and you've prepared a rather peaceful series of stories to run us through some that people may be aware of. We talk about apple. Some the biggest companies in the world and some people may have missed and i wanted to start off because there's nothing i love more than an acronym takes longer to say than the actual name of a company eh. We're gonna talk about the merger of aisha khan and very good improper which apparently has said v._g._a. In p g e yeah. It's kind kind of fun to say the g._m. Pierce of pulse yeah it's quite a sweet story really somma tends to be a little bit of a downtime design industry not masses happen so not view view or not nervous for the wicked but this was the story which has just been announced his quite intriguing so ice accomplice to plywood furniture commanded factor and warm which has this very storied history so icicle grows out of jack pre charts icicle on furniture company which is found the first half of the twentieth century and they work with the loss of the sort of bowel house exiles when they come across to <hes> leafy north london from <hes> germany and they produced some really nice works. I think <hes> breueh doesn't pieces for them. For instance and then over the course of the twentieth century is a conservative and sort of <hes> favor fortune sorry go up and down a little bit until its reform tres is complex and they worked with some really significant contemporary designers so bob reynolds cabeza of the big ones and they have a nice product range but having always it goes in the attention of that heritage tich in history deserves so the partnership with very good improper should much more recent company founded in two thousand eight. Thank join me highs of the financial crash. Gosh they've done very well. All things considered well. I the thing i wanted to ask you is elvis. Mergers fraught with opportunities in that fraught with potential dangers. They're going to move if the production to <hes> the v._g._a. And p premises but i suppose this will give is a con a the capacity to make more spurs different equipment and access to to new resources which perhaps the company has lacked fee g._n._p. Have done a kitten our offices. Should i say facebook for google for bbc. There's a there's a difference is in scale. Which i suppose could be a good thing. I think they both benefit from it. So icicle absolutely feature m._p.'s network. I think will bring them to a much broader and chen <hes> particularly taking internationally in exchange icicle really really strong omay king. They have really great prototyping and sort of expertise within that company so i think v._j. V._j. Have worked with them on that basis for number of years and i suppose this is formalizing it a little bit so they came to position it as a sort of win win so i guess the take home from this says it's nothing to do with brexit apparently which is one thing that both companies have said and i suppose that we need to we need to keep an eye on icicle plus potentially moving more into the commercial world and g._m. Pe- perhaps you know shopping some of the products for maybe the domestic market who knows next up. I'd like to talk about apple an insurmountable big company about which i know almost nothing although i have many of their products surrounding me as we speak apple investing in augmented reality war on us. Are they doing such thing only well. I suppose it's brave new digital future and all the excitement virtual worlds. It's it's quite a nice initiative so apple launched at a trio of augmented reality programs in their stores. Some are based in stalls. Others are artists walks around the city's not so you experience an augmented version of hong kong paris london or whatever and they've partnered with the whitney museum so incorrect the new museum in new york to commission artists for that so that's a nice new program and i think ties into some broader shifts are apple so so apple of course recently losing johnny i've that long-term design had the sort of industrial designer at on the map and made it that kind of archetype of design zayn leads company. He's off to form his own consultancy. Love from that still go to work with apple has been lots of discussion about why he's leaving. I think first thing were to hang is no one knows for sure. It's all speculation but one of them will compelling arguments. I've heard is apple is no longer this kind of straight straight up purist technology company innovating new categories and putting out so the ipod the iphone apple watch and so on they become much more interested in in <hes> being a salvage company as well so they're launching a streaming service later in the year. They've just launched a credit card slightly bafflingly and i think this sort of augmented reality that ties as well. I think a lot of industries that getting more interested in experience and the provision of content and so maybe moving away from previous very product driven model they had a great insight. I <hes> i appreciate that and i suppose as sales slow and growth remains pretty sluggish and you have these big companies like alphabet investing in literally every aspect of our lives in the hope was speculation that may become important apple is kind of i suppose paying playing the stock market a little bit on its on its bets by wonder augmented reality <hes> what future season i'd love to sit in one of those board meetings and see the twenty five via plan for it because i don't think it is aren't works. No probably not i suppose this is more a way to get people involved with the technology and to open it up beyond just being a sort of tool or technology and make it into more of an experience i agree. I don't think it's going to be the future or anything like that but yeah i think it sort of sugaring the pill a little bit and getting people used to it and seeing what they can make ed in this kind of friendly open format and only it also like to talk about the new hires for heads of diversity at chanel and gucci yes <hes> sienna patched has joined chanel head of diversity and inclusion gucci has just made hi dissimilar appointment after scandals earlier this year so i think this is something you can see more of an in principle. I think it could be a very good idea like leaving aside. The specific people in those positions don't know them. I don't know that work so it wouldn't be familiar. Judge who so even-handed should host this in principle. It's it's not a bad thing for a company to signal that it takes these issues seriously by poten someone in that role the issue is it's very hard to know what that roll exactly is like you can't just look online and see the job description as to what they're doing so i've found at least reporting on it so far to be this very muddled and muddy the situation of well. Is this person responsible for policing the output of the design students coming in the collections of justice sort of last check check to make sure there's nothing racist in their nothing bigoted in any way or are they responsible also for hiring. Do they have a say diversity in the design team because that's the issue that comes up again and again and i think it's not that clear. I think there's also a little bit. Maybe of an arms race of clearly companies have identified. There's an issue here and rightly so and it's good they're doing something about it but perhaps a little bit of competition to be seen as the company doing the most about it and using in itself maybe as a marketing tool. I don't need specific examples. If that's the case but in general i wouldn't be surprised and finally a topic about which i'm allowed to be a little flippant. I hope <hes> poppins need sunglasses lifesaver favorite project in the long time so the interaction research studio goldsmiths university and i think they're a little bit of an underappreciated gem in some mice. They go for a number of years and they do any number of fabulous projects. There's one my nature watch for instance where they've been making these kind of hacked cameras. You can make aac ovserv- often and you've got laying around the house to create little camera traps for birds and things like that and it's just a a sort of group of designers who play around a little bit they prototype very rapidly they find situations they can get involved in and they identified or it was identified to them. A serious issue of pathans thins needing sunglasses some serious issue. It's a very serious issues very important. They've got to look cool. It was actually for some scientific research so they they were looking into bioluminescence in puffins bakes. God knows why but i'm glad someone's doing it and as part of the testing you have to shine new light which is very damaging to to is if <hes> it shines directly on them so it is flippant and it is ridiculous but it's also lovely and has a serious side so they made these little salute really well put together sunglasses that pop onto the beak and the path is happy. Then really funny thing is that they're not allowed any photography of the pathogens because the scientists are worried. It's sort of diminishes the work a little bear and potentially if you put out images of your t. remaking patterns where sunglasses on twitter or the web that could deteriorate quickly as a situation. I think the great irony of that is that someone is not taking the best west marketing opportunity. I've ever heard to get to to get their work. Known so it you're right yeah very laudable and i would recommend people look them up. The interaction research watch studio at goldsmiths. They religion sappy less work and sadly that's all we have time for with ali. Thank you so much for coming in. You're listening to monaco on design in a moment. We'll be speaking to defeated dutch book designer irma boom. Don't go away now. Dutch designer irma boom has been rethinking thinking book design since the nineteen eighties and her work which sees her approach these structure and flow of a book with the scrupulous eye of architect goes well beyond the front cover due judge a book by its cover. She seems to say she's collaborated with artists such as a laugher eliason plus design and fashion brands numbering vitro and chanel l. o. n. She's won awards of course including the leipzig gutenberg prize for uncompromising experimental an artful creations in february two two thousand and nineteen. If you remember that monaco's business editor venetia rainy herself claims to be half dutch spoke to the designer during a visit to studio in amsterdam. I'm i'm a bookmaker in amsterdam. I have a small office with two assistance. Intern and dad work doc twenty four seven twenty four seven. What are you working on at the moment. What's the project taking up your time so i'm working on always on many any projects always think that i'm lazy so did i need a lot to do. I always keep plates in the air and that gives me a lot of adrenaline and you mentioned that you're working on something for the next museum. Can we talk about that yeah. So i work already. I think fifteen years for the museum even when they were so-called closed. This small part was opened and i started working for them and they reopened. I think six years ago five years ago and then they asked me to make the logo oh go and i always thought if to speak museum opens invited bec- designed office or agency to work on their new identity but they asked me so the tiny tiny office and as i read a logo for them with a space x space museum which people were not happy with it because does in holland rex museum one word but in the netherlands we have to so-called space police and the space police said is was wrongly at the national museum for sure to expel cakes museum right and it's as one word but i thought axis situ weird words words so i wanted to make it more as an image also we have to let i j which is a sound which only dutch people can pronounce and and then there were museum is generic so i saw two specific and generic and then we have to space. It's very special but anyway. It goes a lot of rumor more but in the end people said well. I didn't change the word museum. I made a logo so it's artistic freedom and professors from <hes> universities were all protecting me and giving arguments why it was good what i did but anyway i work for the museum and before i did small works with hedge museum but now i do all their books which is amazing and i also do design exhibitions and that's when we fantastic's how at the moment there are two new exhibitions in both we designed especially the older rembrandt exhibition which is amazing using that the museum shows all rembrandt's they have which is about four hundred works. The paintings are on a grey wall so it's a combination addition of blue and gray to blue walls are in sort of a harmonica so clearly you do stuff other than books which a lot of people not do you get sick of being known as the queen of books being sold like that over. I am the book person i think even if i make an exhibition s a book designer. I'm also an editor and in my little red book. I also say that you can compare to work. I'm doing like a film film director. It's all about giving direction like elements of architecture which i did with remco has i was also to say the director i made this sort of system how to read a book with two thousand five hundred pages so it's giving directions it's editing and <hes> helping people how to manage so much information. It's really yeah directing but to make an exhibition is exactly the same. It's also making direction and helping people how to get the best out of it. If they spend an hour two hours in a museum you need to help them how to look and where to look and what is interesting and that's directing but in a very seamless way if people go to the museum. It's a rembrandt exhibition. They hardly feel my design but it's definitely definitely there and it's the same way for example to edmonds of architecture book. It's sort of concept. It's an idea which i do without compromise and for me. Making an exhibition is making a book. A making a book is making an exhibition for me. The difference is not that big but i'm bookmaker. Making books is what i do ninety eight percent of my job. I'm really intrigued by something that i read that you said in another interview. He said said that you work is never never art but you do consider architecture. Where's that line few and why why is it never why does that the well i went to art school <hes> to become a painter and i saw that for me but it's really the reason if you're a painter in the best way like there was a an artists artists in the netherlands called. Dan holden which i admire hugely. He was his autonomous person who marketing you. You didn't even know the words. I died unfortunately a few years ago but he did whatever he wanted to do and he always had to necessity not from inside to make screen to make a painting to make a photograph us over him to medium doesn't matter it was the i which was made it data hold a peace and dan didn't produce that much work. He only did what he thought he should do so for me i had this enormous admiration and i didn't know what to do. When i was at article and studying painting i didn't know what to do. I really thought i need somebody to ask me something. Then i get to work so for me. There is a sort of difference that if you want to make something that it's like an artist it's comes from yourself. It's not not commission of course in the museum on from mir the old commission but they also were autonomous thinkers and makers and i had to feeling feeling that i needed to be commissioned and therefore we is the the line. Do you have a book that you're most proud of or perhaps a book that you feel didn't quite get to the place. He wanted it to get too well. It's interesting so if i give a lecture somewhere i always bring the real books. I never show a p._d._f. Semi books are not p._d._f.'s d-fs because i work with the book and how a book functions so it's turning the pages. There is a sequence stairs waits. There's ears smelled sized as a proportion so for me. That's really important so if i give a talk every suitcase <hes> <hes> looks always want suitcase because books are so heavy halley bucks. Can you not see it depends what i bring before always to two suitcases with twenty one books. I am daughtry into numerology. It always has to do something with three so to kosovo last week abroad twelve books because one and two is three so the books i always bring is the s. h. Fee thing book. I made started to make nine thousand nine hundred ninety which was a pivotal moment in bookmaking because then internet was new embassy became more democratic because it was of course chorus already there but then people started to use it and that was a jubilee book for <hes> multi-national based here in the netherlands and then. I thought well if you get a project project on which you can work five years. Let's do something special but then in the end it was so new to new media by the end after five years imagine if we would have made a c._d.-rom d._v._d. Didn't exist then you couldn't play it anymore. So that's why i decided to make a book but the book based on the idea of internet so that's a book. I always rain because i tell that story y. And it's progress two thousand one hundred thirty six pages is really important because because it gives a voyage like searching on the internet it's browsing through book. You find saints. You're not looking for neil array around so that book for me is really early in my career a moment then i've ring one set of old books. It's the socal postage-stamp books i made in ninety ninety eight thousand eight their books which even if i show is now. It looks if i made yesterday. They don't look dated at all. They're thirty one years. Old can believe it feel really old but those books are show because when i made those books i was working for the state for the government printing and publishing house but i was fearless i was young and i was totally fearless designer and i. I wish i was as fearless as then so for me. Does books remind me to experiment because to experiment to try things and even to make mistakes. I think that is crucial. If you want to develop an if you want to develop in for me in making then i bring the chanel book where i didn't use any english about chanel five and it was a book for an exhibition in the politico a few years ago and that book a show that that's for me the ultimate book where the book doesn't exist as a p._d._f. At all it only exists as deep impeach you have in your hands so book cannot be more a book acition albuque- embossed fatty read it. You need it so you can definitely read it. Nothing when there's no light but then you cannot read any book we're sitting in my studio here now so them with some sunlight's nights so it's a wide book only embossing text and image is embossed and i came up with that idea because i think this you smell. I have chanel anelle whereas since i'm fourteen chanel so it's very present but you don't see it and i wanted to make a book which basically don't see yet is very present and saw dan i thought how can i achieve it and then i thought well by embossing indeed bossing as it's a book which has a proportion of chanel a now bottle chanel five and it's five centimeters thick so i do a lot of counting when i'm designing. I'm always it's not oh. I do this or that. Everything has a reason and we because i consider myself as a designer to always have to find reasons why i'm doing things i'm curious. Areas is to what kind of books you read judge books by their cover when you're selecting them for your own pleasure well i think it is interesting when books are are well designed and thought of is not about good or bad actually but we're a good thought i became a book designer because of cover design and because of the contender tender in the sixties and seventies we had a wonderful famous author called young volkers and you worked with one of the greatest step worker purpose in the netherlands called young for america. If you see the cover and if you read the books it's extremely good fit and that's actually why i became book designer. I read the books and then the teacher told me why cover what's a good and because of that notion because i didn't look at it. I didn't even think about it. I realized that there is a profession called book design or graphic design. I didn't know but somebody tell me and if you see those book's content and form are one and they're extremely well-made. I have a library here above my studio and in the library of books from the sixties and from fourteen hundred and fifteen hundred and the books which are in my library. I'm rereading because i really want to know oh yeah. I read him years ago. But what were they about. I'm rereading my own library. I spent last year five months studying at the vatican library library and they're also realized if you make books you make books for the future because what i studied there were books from five five hundred after christ seven hundred fifty after christ and then up to fourteen hundred fifteen hundred because after that the book becomes very standardized as we know is so i see books as part of culture and for me a book container thought and because it's it's not changeable. It's fixed information and you have to turn the pages. I think that notion makes the book extremely valuable so even maybe again again elements of architecture because it's recent book room collazo and harvard g._s._t. There we worked for six years on collecting or making also no more an encyclopedic on the floor on the wall on the window on the ceiling fifteen elements to collect knowledge or thought in edited. It's form which for me is the book and print it in the book. The book becomes a reference to is really the container of thought and and if you compare it to internet where you can change anytime any seconds you never can create that one thought that reference and i think cadet sense the book is crucial to freeze a moment in time that book is that one idea and if you print something you have to think patty you can just print something to think about it because it's there will not disappear and it will be there for a long time so it is important what you do. We've internet of course you have the same because if you put a thought on the internet in one second it's all over the world but you can also take it away and that's i think the interesting the thing thing about making books that you're that it's this yet is this this frozen moment is justice. You will to set set still for for a moment and i think that's crucial. That's why i want to make books. Would you ever consider working on digital digital books. Something that is frozen but is very flat. Does that appeal to you as well <hes> yeah but i think the whole idea of a book dakota x. existence existence four hundred after christ before we had to pyros etcetera and for me. A book is really the if i think of a book it's a paper book and i think that you read or kindle is something else. Of course it's text and it's inflammation and i'm really interested to you to work on it. Nobody ever asked me and i wonder why a really i think it would be super interesting to do. Is your chance e reader. Commissioners says abbas wasting yes. Come come. Come come but it's the same with the whole idea websites. I do work on on the idea of website because i think it's crucial crucial and i also think that we are talking you today. Because i'm the book designer in the time of digital h. and i could articulate. It must more than than maybe if there was no internet so i'm i'm very aware of of what a book is so. I take your late it. I made a book for victorian ralph which also here it's a book. I don't carry because it's too big so don't show it on lectures. I i always wanted to go if people if i do a lecture somewhere would they have so that they bring them so i don't have to carry them at anyway this book with only cover so i really try try to to find a significance of what still a book is and so for me to develop the whole idea. Overbook is is important because the victorian roth book could never be a p._d._f. It's it's the object. It's the thing by turning the pages in different ways race. You can turn pages to the right turn pages to two left. It's a book with only it's called cover cover which only exists of covers. I made covers because they are our fashion designers. They work with layering. I read a book with we've sixty layers so it's like their work. It's a sculpture and and so there are many reasons to still make a book designer <hes> boom speaking to monaco's venetia rainy back in february twenty nine teen. Sadly that's all we have time for on today's show forget. If you'd like to hear more design stories you can subscribe to this show off our sister show monocle on design extra. How do we come up with these names. It's it's available each thursday. You could also head till local newsstand and see color copy of monaco's summer weekly newspaper an issue of the monthly magazine or if you'll i think the monaco drinking and dining directory which have now monaco on design was produced by tom hold. It was edited by may evans. I'm josh bennett. Thank you very much for listening snake goodbye.

apple netherlands chanel apple josh bennett Ali strafford Dan holden monaco editor in chief germany aisha khan holly stratford bob reynolds irma boom Pierce whitney museum twitter
Cootie Shot (Rebroadcast) - 6 July 2020

A Way with Words: language, linguistics, and callers from all over

51:30 min | 10 months ago

Cootie Shot (Rebroadcast) - 6 July 2020

"PODCAST listeners around the world like you make it possible to produce to show like this herd millions of times a year. Give it wayward dot org slash donate to show your support. Thanks. You're listening to a way with words, the show about language and how we use it. I'm grant Ferret, and Burnett. I have a set of terms here from around the country for a particular thing and I would love it if you try to guess what it is. Okay. Okay. Belly stickler. dipsy doodle. Johnny lately. Duck in dip. How do you? tickle. Bump. Yes ma'am. Caro Caro who coty spell that either way C. H. O. T.. O.. Ringing some bells isn't I want to say that it's Horse tail weeds are Queens lays Sir something like that right? That's the tickle Part I. Love Your Brain Walking through it. That's not. No, but it's interesting that you got a jolt from the word coat. which is French for jolt. Colas or cow always this all electric shock. No. This is according to the dictionary of American regional English. This is an abrupt dip or bump in a road or path either naturally occurring especially in ice or snow or deliberately made especially to divert runoff or more recently to slow automobile traffic. Okay what'd you call him bumped something? But the names that I like for it our dipsy doodle because if you're going to bump and and yes ma'am because you nod your head as if you're saying, yes, man. The whole. Okay. Cool. Yeah. You can call it. Thank you, ma'am. When I've heard why did I not connect that? Left it out. But sometimes they're called a kiss me quick because you're writing in the in the wagon with your sweetie in the olden. Day. Bumps the two of you together in a real way. Opportunity and it's also sometimes called particularly in south Western. Pennsylvania is called a Yankee bump. Why is that I? Don't know the reason for Yankee, bump but people talk about piling snow and packing it down on a route where you slept. So that so that you get that kind of airborne. Always. That was that was the that was the holy grail as a kid and wintertime. Hit to catch air when you're when you're leading to catch. Yeah but all those terms for a bump in the road dipsy doodle. That's nice. Eight, seven, seven, nine, hundred, nine, nine, six, seven, three, or singer dipsy doodles two words we would radio DOT ORG or chats up on twitter at W. A. Y.? W. O. R. D. Hello you have a way with words cry this is Nice McGrath calling from Bellingham Washington welcome to the show. What can we do for you? I was listening to your podcast day when I was on a road trip on the Olympic peninsula. I saw a sign that said congested area and which was obviously meant to let us know that even though it looked quite wooded and beautiful but there were a lot of people living nearby and it reminded me of education that I talk to found Massachusetts in two thousand ten with a bunch of friends where we saw a sign that we thought was hilarious that said thickly settled. which took us a while to figure out the exact same thing. So my boyfriend sector and I'd that we're on the road trip. He said, Oh, you should call them and kind of on a dare I called you ask about this about these. These. Signs and how they get worded and how they're sort of affected by local vernacular I mean thickly settled. It it sounds so like a Massachusetts can almost hear about accent right that. Yeah I'm picturing pilgrims or something. Yeah. Almost felt like, yes. Something that a person from old rather than New England would. Right. Yeah that's a really interesting observation yet thickly settled was a term in Massachusetts law as far back as the eighteen thirties meaning someplace that has a lot of structures either a business district or houses that were within two hundred feet of each other extending for a quarter of a mile it was it was a legal term. So the signs on both of these cases are about warning you that you need to slow down because you're coming across businesses and homes and cars and people. Right and we thought it was in both instances in the car with my friends and my boyfriend we were like. Why don't they just say slow I mean many different ways to do this. You know. There's you can change that you can change what the speed limit is. It just felt like a quaint quirks of this community, but you're saying that these kinds of signs would maybe be found all over Massachusetts. I. Am I right there seemed to be exclusive to Massachusetts I think. So I mean it seems like seems like a road sign that Emily Dickinson with. Settled and. I thought about you guys in particular because that word stick. You know it just it's not how congested is how we on the West Coast. Would talk about you know a lot of something that you know stick. It seems like a very old fashioned way of expressing You know a large population or as you're saying like a lot of buildings in one place. Yes. Indeed, and the word sickly has has dropped I think in terms of its usage just just in general we don't say thickly so much and thickly settled. Is is pretty specific to Massachusetts as far as I know I was just up in Oregon myself and I remember seeing a road sign that either set. I. Think it just said congested which. I just wanted to take a picture of myself in front of. The T.. Area here's my faith right now. Because if you were there during the fires the. Fires you absolutely have been congested probably time and I WanNa go back to something that you hinted at their I. Don't think that there's a regional difference except that their regional laws are different that At the people are saying congested more in the northwest and they are in Massachusetts, but one of the things that I think you're hearing that we haven't really zeroed in on is that congested is a Latin word and thick and thickly are old English words and I think you're hearing this kind of this. We can kind of unconsciously classified these words by their origins in our minds. The Latin romance words tend to feel a little more high Falutin. They tend to feel a little more. A little more educated and. The Anglo Saxons last dramatic slash old norse old English word. So forth, they tend to feel a little closer to the earth a little more historic a little more a little more. Central to the language they feel like the parts of the language that you build the rest of the language upon. So. It really reflects. How. Kind of the culture of both places or at least you know? It's funny because in the Seattle area. Were often sort of called alita or snobby or learn it or you know a book loving. You are fans in. Massachusetts most there's so many universities and small colleges up there. They are readers they are I tell you what? I would love. The. Reading. Battle between Washington. State. Message. Something trying to start beef. In in particular on Cape, cod hat and Cape Cod in general such a exactly what you're saying like an earthy you down like all fashioned sort of feel and I love that as a visitor as a regular visitor to Massachusetts. I. Love that amount going there i. think it's really great and in fact when we were. When we were there my friends and I we found MOXY I. Don't know if you've heard of this it says asprilla and is really common out there that my grandfather used to love and we actually invented we were like we have to come up with some mock scales, some cocktails. Marks. And we? We invented one called thickly settled, which was a combination. And Bourbon. Other cocktail recipe for your listeners today. Thank you need one cranberry in their. settled. After that. Like a little mini cranberry bogs. Little wreak. Oh my gosh somebody who's listening please make us and take a picture of it. You. Know when you started your question, what we were going to break open. You're welcome. And thank you very much for your call. Call us again sometime. Okay. Thanks so much. Here's what have you seen. You've been out there on the road something caught your eye. You wrote it down. You took a picture now it's time to share it with US Eight, seven, seven, nine, two, nine, nine, six, seven, three. Hello welcome to a away with words. This is Pam Service on in Eureka California? Welcome to the show, my mother and grandmother when they earn would go into a dark room or bazaar dark at night they would say it was as dark as inside of goat. And that struck me as rather odd because lean neither lady had ever been inside a goat. I I just consider well, maybe it's just some little family. weirded he. But then I read a story novel sitting Orlands and like the early nineteen th century and there was a character in the story that said something was as dark as the inside of a cow. And I thought well, this is really weird where these people coming with this idea of inside of large ruminants there should be in darkness I wondered about it for years and finally decided well, you're the guys that would know. So I just give you a call and see what you say. You know what pin neither of us has been inside of a ruminant. You we know. Marks quote do you know that one? No, which one outside of a dog a book as a man's best friend inside of a dog, it's too dark to read, right? Yeah you right. Inside Goto So you were saying that you read the dark is the inside of a cow raise in. A book from the early nineteenth century well, no, it was. It was historic novel set in the early nineteenth century in New Orleans and some character says this about you know an inside account. That's really really like what mom and grandma used to say yeah we'll. It goes back even farther than that. Dark is the inside of a cow's been around since at least Mark Twain. Really Yeah. He used that freezing roughing it. Teen, SEVENTY-ONE INNOCENCE ABROAD Yeah and you can. Sort of infer what the idea is I mean if you were in there with no light bulbs, it's getting. Dark right and there are lots of different variations of it. I haven't heard the inside of a goat one. Before have you grant know but I've heard there are lots of other ways. Inside of a whale inside of a cat inside a black cat. A sack inside of a needle Joyce Carey wrote about. As dark as the inside of a cabinet minister which I really. Don't want to be in their. Magicians hats, coal scuttle the devils waistcoat pocket. Wow. But go have you you haven't heard No. So that may be a family where T I like that. We're. Family we're not as well I'm not sure. was there any kind of a regional thing about us I know that my mother's Tommy some of it came from the South I don't know my genealogy very well. Being regional across all of the English speaking world, you'll find it popping up in a anywhere English is spoken over the last two hundred plus years varieties of dark as the inside of an ex. Maybe my my relatives couldn't afford cows so they just say go. Go to great. I like owed. Paying. Thank you for sharing this family phrase. I'll keep my eyes open and see if what other animals of had their interiors invaded. You let us know if you hear of any more. Okay. Okay. By Eight, seven, seven, nine, two, nine, nine, six, seven, three. Teachers around the world at every grade level US away with words in classrooms as a launching pad for discussion learners of all kinds, use it to sharpen their skills in yet another language help us help them by giving it wayward radio dot org slash donate today. Thank you. You're listening to a way with words, the show about language and how we use it. I'm Martha Barnette Greenberg, and we're joined by Jim Eski Quiz Guy John Grant Hi Martha. You know guys when I do pub trivia every once in a while we have to do with sports question and everybody most people complain but some people like sports questions. So every once in a while, you gotta do them now as far as sports and words go I'm a fan of particularly well chosen team name now to my mind, the name has to fill several needs. It has to inspire or intimidate or should denote strength or power like the Saint Louis Rams or the Colorado. ROCKIES IT could speak to local pride like the New York. Knickerbockers of the Houston Texans could also have a clever connection to the city or the state like the Minnesota twins or the New England revolution right so I'll grab the providence of an actual sports team name that I find interesting or unusual and see if you can figure out the name of the team for example, the only team whose games I regularly attend may seem to be named for a large scale weather event but in actuality, this minor league baseball team is located near a legendary rollercoaster and that's where they got their name to happen to know which one it is the heat Miami. Heat. Funder. There's a thunder somewhere. This is this is actually a team that I clones yes Brooklyn site. The cyclone rollercoaster. That's right now it sounds great. It's perfect. You know it's a cyclone is very impressive and it's connected to the to the coney island's great. They are the minor league affiliate of the new. York Metropolitans. Let's sports knowledge when it comes a nomenclature. This NFL team may select their named for a dark avian associated with Halloween but more specifically or rather more literally their name references a famous poem written by a famous resident of their city Baltimore. Baltimore Ravens. Right This NBA franchise founded in one thousand, nine, hundred, five alludes to the most popular tourist attraction in its state and the kingdom that resides within it. The most popular tourist attraction in the state and it seemed resides and it right California no is it Florida it is in Florida. Yes. But it's not a Florida has a city name. So I'm going to say Landau Tinkerbell. Closed. Orlando Magic. Yes. Since one, thousand, nine, hundred, seventy, this major league baseball team has been named in honor of its cities iconic industry and it may sound like they make coffee, but it's another very popular drink the brewers. That's right. Right handers what this major. League baseball team had seven players get married in its first year. So they were nicknamed the bridegroom's intimidating I. Know they were later given a name that referenced local mass transit the then moved to a city that doesn't have trolleys kept the last half of that name. What are they? Brooklyn dodgers right? Well, they were the Brooklyn dodgers are the dodge. The Brooklyn Bridegrooms? Right. They still had the tail end of the Charlie car system and the dodgers showed up right Aaron commitment he did. Marriage. Finally this major league soccer clubs name pays tribute to the men. Their city is named for and all the men who worked for him specifically on a series of voyages about five hundred years ago. Five hundred years ago. So Columbus. And Major League Soccer Club. Is the Columbus it's of course it's always important that your team name is alliterative. Columbus was in charge of Columbus means money well. Columbus end is men, Columbus, and his sailors of kind class. Ship what's that? Who who men's ship? What Group of real? Yes. The Columbus crew. sock soccer. That's Very good. You guys did fantastic. Very Good Sports. John did superbly affect facto. Perfecto. John. Thanks so much. Thank you. Talk to you next time, and if you'd like to talk with US call, US Eight, seven, seven, nine, two, nine, nine, six, seven three or send your emails, two words, Wayward Radio Dot Org, or you can find us on twitter at wayward. Hello you have a way with words. Hi there. This is Karen Galvin from Santa Barbara we'll. Hello care and welcome. To the show what's up one day my husband and I were driving along, and of course, it got me thinking about different words and I love how you guys dig through everything and there was a word. I've always been curious about the word I wanted to know about it. It's retire and retirement. Because I. Think of you know people retiring after thirty years. They've been dedicated hardworking five day week job. And I think they're gonNA have time to relax and. Go on indulge in hobbies and travel and just slow down a little bit. But the word retire to me SORTA says his tire all over again. Relaxing. Curious about that. Yeah you know when my dad retired he said I'm not retiring retreading for the journey ahead which. Thousand Miles. I was talking to my husband and we had another thought this morning. You know you usually at retirement age you raised your children but grandchildren come along and they retire you over again. Good. Home right that's the good thing. I I don't have any yet but when the day com fingers. Yeah. All right. So here's the here's the thing. English is a tricky ladies. She's got aces up her sleeves. An English is weird and one of the things that she does is she likes to throw words at us. They look exactly alike, but they're etymologically completely unrelated and so I R E in retire has nothing whatsoever etymologically to do with the tires to be tired or to to need to sleep it also etymological has nothing to do with the tire as the tire on the card cars three I'd just go looking parts of words that are unrelated. So that explains a lot of it right there. Right. So when you talk about retiring, we got it from French ultimately from Latin independent means to take back or to withdraw, and if you think for example about old fashioned meal experience, maybe you saw Downton Abbey and what happens after the meal they withdraw to another room they retire to that room, right? Maybe. The end they retired to their bedroom. So they were withdrawing from company and removing themselves from the regular situation to do something else and so when you were retiring from a career or an industry or a job, you are withdrawing yourself from that environment. Make sense at way there's a Lotta other languages use a form that were in Spanish and Portuguese the word for I believe the word for a withdrawal or with withdrawal is they tito something like not I are oh My. Husband meant he's fairly fluent in Spanish and he said there's the word terrar- to throw and he thought the same thing you're going to like throw a new spin on life and Over. K Kinda. Yeah we've done. And did he talk about the Spanish word? WHO'D BE LESEAN? No but I think you would feel that with retirement. Relation. Word for retirement. Yes. That's wonderful. Well I appreciate it. That's great. You guys I appreciate the the breakdown we appreciate your calling. Karen, thank you so much. Enjoy to care. Thanks. Bye Bye bye. Thank you, bye-bye. If you've got a different word for what it means to leave the working world and go to the volunteer world or the charity world or the grandkids world. Let us know eight, seven, seven, nine, hundred, nine, nine, six, seven, three or email words at radio dot org. Determine the other day step in repeat. Do you know what this step and repeat of it? You do the same place Yeah. It's the visual thing behind people who take photographs, Galas and special events that has all the logos that are repeated. Yeah. There's a long sheet of paper or foam core board or whatever behind the curtain. Yeah. It's called a step and repeat or a step and repeat wall or press wall, and it's one of those publicity backdrops that has all those logos behind the celebrities or whomever is getting photographed. What's really interesting to me is that step and repeat is an older term that has to do with photographic printing involving or. Pertaining to a procedure where you do something where it's a mechanism where you do one step and then another step, and then you do the same first step again like like when you're printing stamps or printing background checks. So I thought that was really fascinating when I learned that it was transferred to this backdrop. So interesting but still printing printing, it's a kind of printing but there's also the idea there of you have the celebrity standing there and you bring one person up to have a photograph with them and then the other personnel. Yeah so The name comes it, comes But I think it's reinforced by that idea, a step and repeat. Eight seven, seven, nine, hundred, nine, nine, six, seven, three. Hello you have a way with words. Hello. This is Ron from northeastern Wisconsin heireann going to the show around. Well. I. Am curious about the use of alternate words maybe and perhaps. I grew up with maybe I still use maybe. People that I talked to also do. But I've noticed that for quite a while now that. If I read the the word it's. Tends to be perhaps and if I certainly if I see it on TV whether news or a television show, it's perhaps So. Am I behind times or is this a regional thing or perhaps indeed a better word maybe more elite. I am not sure. Let me give you another option for that Ron as that they're both correct for the occasions in which they're being used. So it sounds like you're using maybe in everyday conversation, which is basically informal, right? Yes and you're seeing perhaps in print slightly more formal than spoken language and you're seeing on television is definitely more formal than just everyday conversation and that actually is the distinction between the two. There's almost no semantic difference. It really depends on the company that those two words keep what other words appear near them, what the sentences and paragraphs look. But they are generally sems the only difference is the register of the language perhaps tends to appear in slightly more elevated language and maybe tends to appear ends basically everyday language. I wouldn't even say informal language just like the run of the mill language that we speak with our friends and our family. Sure. Okay. Through throughout the it's not a regional issue. The formality or the formality of the. Of Discussion Lens it to perhaps or maybe, and perhaps it's not like it's this rarefied legal term or anything like that. It's it's just like. A little bit up. You know it's kind of like the assistant manager whereas maybe is just the the regular employee you know what I'm saying. Yeah. Okay. Okay. That makes sense I'll probably continue to use maybe but to. Understand. The differences that says it's good for me to know that we'll run. Thank you for your call. We really appreciate it. Thank you. All right. So by by you know I'm reminded of that old tasters choice commercial. Dear remember that one with only the hands in the clever voices. Well, it's it's. Like a man and a woman in the doorway. Okay and and at the end of one of them One of them says, look I'm in the middle of something right now. But perhaps and. Perhaps. Just a really, really sexy way. With maybe it wouldn't have been no. Works about that. I bet they discussed this for ages. And that AD agency. That roof that copy what works is that discrepancy between the register of the language and the letter intimacy the moment. You'll find a lot of humor. Particularly the better writers falls into that category this real discrepancy of register on occasion and for some reason that tickles your fancy almost every time. Yeah. Yeah. If you haven't seen that commercial, you need to look it up on the Internet eight, seven, seven, nine, hundred, nine, nine, six, seven, three. Hi there you have a way with words. Hi, this is Hopkins calling in from Suffolk Virginia. Will. Hello. Elizabeth Welcome. What do for having me? Sure. What we do for you I just became familiar with your program a few weeks ago. I was happening to listening to it while I was in the car and remember the situation that I was in when I was a kid of where I was. had moved from Hawaii to Indiana, and a rhyme had one word variant in a Hawaii to in Indiana and pretty much the only made a fool of myself but I was already an outsider moving from. A very diverse culture to not so diverse culture and and this one worked variant I. It was shocking in as a ten year old. It was pretty much expelled me from the in crowd. Yeah I got over it quickly, but it was it was awkward at the moment. So the saying, I believe in most the continental United States is circle circle dot dot. Now you have I, have my shot you have your could he shot so Someone who would be? ooh, would all of a sudden be accepted because you gave them the inauguration which is just circling and tapping the palm the back of the hand. Well. Children's rhyme well in Hawaii it was circle circle dot dot. Now you have your Yukos shot glitch means little bugs. Thank you I don't know how it was spelled I with you know nine or ten years old but I remember my mom explaining the word to me when I learned that she goes it means little like ukulele means little Qatar. So with a derivative from that. Interesting I love this. Okay. So you're on the playground and and you circle somebody and you you touch your finger to their. Magazine back of the. So you draw two circles in the back of the hand and then your tap it. circled. Dot Dot. And what's really funny I'm in a business networking and I had a a coffee with somebody after heard your program and I brought this up and he was moved from Hawaii here to Virginia and he finished the children's rhyme with me. With Lucas shot and we're both you know that you know I was thirty five years ago when I did this. We're both back back and Yeah and he was familiar. I was like okay I'm not remembering this wrong. It's not made up in my mind this is this really did happen so. Must have felt good. Yeah. Yeah. Confirmation. Five years played hurt right. When we can pile on more confirmation at least for the larger notion of Cudi shots the Hawaiian variant by the way is one that I haven't heard before and I'm delighted to get it because a lot of folklore is been done on the idea of Kuti's and things like cooties around the world because this whole game where somebody catches a thing on the playground and has to be inoculated. You can find you can find it in the last seventy years and Italy Germany UK Australia and whole bunch of other places, and it has a bunch of different names the. OBI's this husband and wife folklore team. They found twenty six different diseases that children could catch me. On the playgrounds of the United Kingdom is quoting conflict allergic. So are you saying, ooh, who Uku? Coup. Interest right yeah. Ukulele does come from Hawaiian words that mean jumping flea. Okay. Jumping Laos because of the way your fingers move on Ukulele when you're playing. I remember that now. Yeah. Yeah you're. In you cou you cou cou shot Okay I. Love. That better than cooties actually. I did you adopt? Adopt a the Cudi shot instead yes. Very quickly but and you know everything was fine. But I just remember later on it became a teacher and I just remember like you said languages so powerful and how includes your exclude you and that was the circumstance that. Excluded me at one moment Well, this has been wonderful. You've shared so much of your history in your story and we really appreciate it. Thank you for having me on the air will hopefully think of some more. Transitions with moves. Thanks. All right. Thank you bye-bye. Kim across a bit of railroad slang, bake a cake. Do you know what it means to bake a cake? Turn on all your lights I don't know what it means to build up steam locomotive. Stoking the Fire Yeah you're stoking the fire. In fact, another term from railroad slang for firemen is a bake hid a bake it. Eight, seven, seven, nine, two, nine, nine, six, seven, three. Support for a way with words comes from Jack and Caroline. Raymond Proud Sponsors of Wayward Inc the nonprofit that produces and distributes this program. You're listening to a way with words, the show about language and how we use it. I'm grant Barrett in Martha Barnett if you care about writing well, and of course you do because you're listening to our show I, want you to high yourself to the nearest bookstore or library and pick up a copy of a new book by Joe. Moran it's called I. You write a sentence, the elements of reading writing and life and Joe Moran is a professor of English and cultural history at. Liverpool John Moores. University in. England and the reason that I'm so excited about getting this book which I don't have yet but I know I'm GonNa love it is that I read an essay that he wrote in The Guardian it may be adapted from the book I'm not sure but just a taste of this pros made me want to get this book immediately he's talking in the essay about how to write the perfect sentence and it's it's really pretty close to a perfect essay. Let me just share a little bit of it. He says. A good sentence imposes a logic on the world's weirdness. It gets its power from the tension between the ease of its phrasing and the shock of its thought slid cleanly into the mind. A sentence as it proceeds is a paring away of options. Each added word because of the English language is dependence on word order reduces the writers alternatives in narrows the reader's expectations but even up to the last word, the writer has choices and can throw in a curveball. A sentence can begin in one place and end in another galaxy without breaking a single tactic rule. The poet Wayne cast inbound calls, it organizing lava this pleasure to be got from pushing a sentence in the wrong direction without altering its sweet grammatical composure. A love it isn't it gorgeous Composure. That book again is I, you write a sentence, the elements of reading writing and life by Joe Moran. If you've got a book, you'd like to share with US something. You think we should all read. Let us know eight, seven, seven, nine, two, nine, nine, six, seven, three, email us at words it wayward radio, dot org or talk to us on twitter at W. A. Y. W., O. R. D. High. You have a way with words. Hi, My Name's Darren I used I'm pronouncing I'm calling from Washington DC Hot Darren show what can we do for you So I have one of those classic I didn't realize. I. Was saying this weirdly until I moved into another place questions. I am originally from small town in southeastern Massachusetts. And I moved down to DC recently where we have all the Smithsonian's and all of that, and all my friends and giving me a really hard time about the way that I say the word. Museum. So I'm wondering. if you guys have a rebuttal for me of some variety on maybe why I might say museum the way that I stay museum. Do they want you to say. They want me to say museum with really enunciating that Um. I definitely remember being a kid and understanding how to spell the word museum getting stuck. I'm not all the time because in my head, it sounds like Z. a. m. but that's not how It's a quote unquote supposed to be pronounced. The second syllable rhymes with game. It's more like shes them. Maybe it's more like GAM- or Out. Okay Okay because what I'm hearing here is what I'm hearing is like a long a vowel it sounds more like a game to me the the vowel in game to me. But if you are doing if you if you are trying to do the the. Pam Lamb Cram vowel. Then you would be in line with the way that a fair number of people in the northeast do say that word now it's not that common. But I have seen enough anecdotal evidence of people in New York. Connecticut New England even as far south as Pennsylvania reporting that they say it is two syllables not three. They don't say museum but they say Museum. Like. Fat. So. To my ear that's a little different than what you're saying. But I think I think that there's room to suggest that because you're vowels even though you're vows a little different it's still Part and parcel of that same two syllable pronunciation of the word. Yeah I. Definitely agree that it sounds like it should be two syllables today. So my rebuttal would be is that you aren't alone. In pronouncing the word differently than most people pronounce it it doesn't necessarily make you wrong but it does make you different and so that's your task your task Taryn. Is How long can you stand up under the pressure of living in a big museum town like DC and constantly find yourself having this battle? I think I can hold my own. Okay. All right down the New England five. Give a sense of whether there might be other words but have that like e you am that could be pronounced as just one syllable with them. There aren't many anglicised native is. A words, the end with Seo the only one I can think of C. O L. E. M. How would you say that? That Coliseum Coliseum right? So you would you would you pronounce the end like most people say museum? Okay interesting. You know there's another word I WANNA toss at you which is idiot lacked idiolect is the language that you yourself speak and each one of us no matter who we are how we grew up aren't even for a twin or triplet and grew up our whole lives with close contact just a handful of people we each speak just a little differently than anyone else in the world and it says company Yeah Yeah. Yeah so it sounds like it. Yeah. I might have some other people speaking about part of my my language and maybe my own variations as well. Linguistic, tribe. That's awesome. Thanks for calling. We really appreciate it. Thank you so much. Take care to give by by Terence experience with having a word that they say differently isn't a rare one. We know that you've had this to call us and tell us about it. We'll explore it will figure it out together eight, seven, seven, nine, two, nine, nine, six, seven, three or email us words. Radio DOT ORG. We got an email from Johann bogue who lives in using Michigan and she was writing about a childhood confusion that she had. She said that when she was growing up, one of her neighbors was named Elden and one day she was playing nearby while her parents had a conversation with Ellen and at one point Johanna piped up with a comment she writes I addressed him as Elton my dad quickly shushed me and said not call him that from that point on I thought the name Eldon was a dirty word. I couldn't understand why someone would name their child and naughty words. It was much later that I realized that my dad me because I should have called him Mr. Begley. Not referred to by his first name and I love that story because it reminds me of that kind of limited period when you're a kid in your learning words and learning language but there are a few that are just out of reach They don't quite come in the packaging would tell you exactly when and where. And so all that time she thought it. Oh, you know he's he's passed away now but I had an uncle bud whose name was elden and he does not like being called eldest also that's. Going to. He was but he was a rascal and a character truck driver and he would have loved that story. Well thanks John. We love getting your stories about language. So send them two words it wayward radio DOT ORG or call us eight, seven, seven, nine, hundred, nine, nine, six, seven, three. Hello. You have a way with words. Hello. Hi this is written Malone instead Antonio. Welcome look at me do for you I had a quandary with a friend who is a musical person she teaches piano her father was a jazz musician and the forties and fifties. And somebody had. told her that they were going to the beach and they should bring her axe. She said to reach shopping would. And I thought well, that's really funny for her to say that her father that was a jazz musician. But I I've called my horn when I played was my axe. And I started thinking well, we're we're just term come from. What was your? What kind of instrument did your friend have? She plays piano the people that told her that they played various instruments, guitars and basis and stuff like that I play the saxophone. And you're looking for a background on ax to refer somebody. Musical Instrument. And I when I was growing up in the bands played and it didn't matter what you played. Your Horn was your acts. That conforms to what I know as well. So let me get straight people are asking her to bring her piano to the beach. Joke than anything? Bringing a Keytar or something like that yeah. Well, it's got a long history. A lot of people listening are probably going to be surprised that that an axe originally did mean a brass instrument and not a guitar because these days these days most at least casual musicians would probably think of a guitar I and the earliest that I've seen is nineteen forty forty-six in Billboard magazine but I would not be surprised if it's than that. So. Yeah. You can find people referring to trombone saxophone later even by the nineteen sixties and seventies people start to refer to things like their typewriter is their acts. or or even in the eighties nineties referring to their computer, whatever you use primarily as your means of getting money whatever your primary intimate is as it doesn't even have to look like an accent anymore. Now, the origin story is really interesting as far as I understand it. The best theory out there is that it comes from the term. No, this one would shedding. Do you get? Thought of that and you know. Well it's it's from intense practice by yourself usually, right By yourself are not in public in any case. Would shedding because it refers to kind of going out to the woodshed to practice your instrument and dates to the nineteen twenties, and so it's decades earlier than acts referring to the musical instrument. So it is believed that there's two things continuing your one. The idea is, what would you take out to the woodshed? Well, if you're really chopping wood, you'd bring acts. Up there to keep your your squawking in your noise away from everyone else you're bringing your music answer. But the second thing is a guitar and many other instruments have this long wooden handle that looks kind of like an axe handle right? Interesting I was familiar with the term would shedding and then I thought about big band musician Woody Herman. And one of his signature tunes was wood. Choppers Ball. That you know Oh, I don't know. Mid deletes Forty sometime in. The forties yeah. Yeah. So you have heard chopping as well and wood chopping to prefer to really shredding on Guitar. For brass instruments shredding. Yes. I'm familiar with particularly with modern rock guitarists but. I've never heard it used with any other instruments but you know I haven't played in thirty or forty years. It's been a while. Okay. Well, Rick I got to tell you this is a this is a great question. I was happy to come up with an answer for you just. Think. Calls again sometime. All right. I will I will take. We know you've got hobbies or weird profession or something needs to do in your spare time. You don't call hobby. It's actually the hobby and it's got words. It's gotTa Lingo. It's got a glossary lexicon. We want that eight, seven, seven, nine, two, nine, nine, six, seven, three emails at words would radio DOT ORG or talk to us on twitter at W.. A. W. O. R. D.. Get an email from David Spencer in Portland Oregon who writes in Super? Green Sustainable Renewable Portland I've been observing a new behavior that needs a name. Many cafeterias and fast food establishments request that you sort your refugees into one of several containers, including items destined for landfill recycling or composting. Often there's charter a diagram explaining which items go where there's a characteristic pause and look of befuddle moment people hold their discards and try to figure out which been to use that look of puzzlement needs a name. I know that feeling. Sorting your own rubbish between two different kinds of recycling and the trash yes. into the bottles go here is the paper go there or what I just had this this very experienced in Portland Anyway David suggests that these individuals look discount posted to compose posted so like discombobulated but combining compost. That disgusted in their myself I know that feeling particularly when you still have liquid left in something and like your Paper Cup, I can cycle it, but there's no place for me to pour the liquid. So support on top the trash and then recycled the cup. How does that work? That's a good question like if you're in the coffee shop and they don't give enough room for cream. them off the top right and there's no basis to cut you. Know trae or there's a garbage bag that somebody's got an empty. Yes. Poked. Right. Reminds me of the way. They would empty the trash cans in the subway Newark City where they just drag down the platform and you can see that smear for week. What are you thinking about in terms of language call US Eight, seven, seven, nine, hundred, nine, nine, six, seven, three. Hello. You have a way with words. Hello. This is at Bromley and I'm calling from Florence South Carolina but I'm here on business and I live in Lawrenceville Illinois but I have a question concerning the word ish. It's a word that I heard often when I was stationed in grand forks? Air Force Base North. Dakota. It was a word that kind of. What I understand, it was kind of a a gross or nasty I hear going on the radio. Would say today's going to be an issue day. The first time I heard that I thought did he say? No it's it's Yes. I S H I know a lot of my friends with a soda. They had the way of speaking to and You know if it was something that they just getting like they would say initially I is this is this a foreign word from another country? Just. To The is absolutely. Yeah. So you've you've nailed like whole big parts of the story of each of used mainly in North Dakota Minnesota Wisconsin a few other places and it comes from the Scandinavian heritage. They're probably from the Swedish and Norwegian settlers and both of those languages and possibly Danish they have. An. Interjection. Utterance that's kind of each that you use to express disgust or horror or revulsion or just dissatisfaction, and it was borrowed directly into English from those languages. So that is a foreign word that's commonly used in Scandinavia. Well yeah, exactly. It's commonly used in in Sweden and Norway, and now it's been anglicized. It is fully in English English word in in that part of the United States now it's may be. Of the. Travel around the country and I don't hear anywhere else. It's just definitely North Dakota? And they definitely have A. Different language another common thing Josh. Yeah, sure you bet. Yeah Minnesota Wisconsin I've heard it described as the word ish described as the sound you make when you step bare foot on a Banana Peel Bananas it's. I mean I can see why it has some staying power because it sort of sounds like a combination of squishy. Nikki yeah but yes. and Scandinavian route, and some word historians have theorized that the IC in English is related back in the of time to this very word Scandinavian languages. Fantastic I say it's amazing. I'm sixty years old and I've traveled all over the country and I've never heard anywhere else there and like I say for it to be commonly used even on the radio I thought that was pretty amazing. We're one country. We speak a lot of different English is that we? Truly truly cost against time with another report from the road. Much Call us with your language Question Eight, seven, seven, ninety, nine, nine, six, seven, three or send your emails. Two words it wayward radio DOT ORG and you can find us on twitter are handle is wayward. What more way with words listen to years of past episodes at wayward radio dot org or find the show in any PODCAST APP or on I tunes our toll free line is always open Selena's a message at eight, seven, seven, ninety-nine, nine, six, seven, three, and we'll take a listen. We love to get your messages at words, wayward radio DOT ORG for hit us up on twitter at W. A. Y. W. O. R., D., and look for us on facebook. This program would not be possible. Without you GRANTON I out that change the way we listen and think about language and your making it happen. Thanks also to senior producer Stephanie Levin Director and Editor Tim Ferriss Director Calling Tedeschi and production assistant, Emma Kelman in San Diego in New York. We Quiz Guy Johnson Eski and that master of keeping it real Paul reuest Argo Studios. A Way with words is an independent production of wayward INC from the Recording Arts Center Studio West in San Diego I'm Martha Barnett I'm grant Ferret Celena bye-bye.

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The best of 2019

Monocle 24: Section D

29:04 min | 1 year ago

The best of 2019

"The masters with Tiffany and company on one twenty four takes you on a journey to meet. Pioneers from the fields of design aren't fashion sport. Music and mole. Masters like read Cracow. It's something that you can't learn to do in six months. It's something that a lot of the people that are doing it. If spent ten twenty thirty years doing this and it's a true craft masters of diverse fields fields with vast ranges of talents. What unites all these? Trailblazers is a mastery of craftsmanship of technique of Materials of innovation to drive what they do. Innovators like Scott Campbell. So the final product is just richer and deeper and more interesting when you really put in the hours of making it with your own own hands. Learn about their life and work and maybe to a sense of the philosophy has brought them here and might just inspire you in however small away to follow blue in there footsteps. The masters with Tiffany and company on monocle twenty four This is monocle designed molecules at weekly peak at the best architecture attack industrial design graphics and fashion to. I'm Josh Bennett coming up today. We're looking back. At the past twelve months of Monaco on design and reliving some of the most illuminating moments. We'll be hearing from American architect. Elizabeth diller this accessible. The high line is proof that people still want to come out into public space and do something as old fashioned as walking and sitting reflecting on how design can help tackle homelessness. How do you deinstitutionalise a space to ensure that Sense sense of home that you're not in the system just somewhere secure. You can rebuild your life and getting a Master class book designed from the Dutch designer boom in my little red book. I also say that you can compare the work I'm doing like Film director it's all about giving direction. That's all coming up right right here on multiple on design on monocle thirty four and a very warm welcome to Monaco design. We're dipping into some of our favorite moments from the show in twenty nine this week before heading into the new year as regular listeners will be well well aware. There's a lot to pick from including chats with architecture masters including Sir Terry Farrell and the Pritzker prize went up B v Doshi. There was even a delve into the world of Sri Lankan modernism modernism with authors Sharoni Pinto Plus Stephens Sag maestas advice on making an album cover. There's plenty more besides and do head to Monica Dot Com to catch up on our back catalogue fought sadly there are only so many minutes show and a year for that matter. So we've picked some moments that we think help embody what good design meant in two thousand. Nineteen we begin with. Architect Elizabeth Diller when we spoke to her in April two thousand nine hundred and she just unveiled the shed a cultural center and Performing Arts venue in New York. and part of the Hudson Jason yards development the shed follows diller's other celebrated projects including a role. On New York's Highland Park. She also worked on the Institute of Contemporary Art in Boston. With steamed practice diller skin video. RENFRO Monaco's America's editor at large. Ed Stalker met Villa in her studio and began by asking her. If she'd it always wanted to be an architect. No my parents are actually Holocaust survivors. We lived in Europe. I was born in Poland. And we immigrated graded here when I was a kid and I had a very middle class upbringing. My parents really started from scratch here as laborers and it's the immigrants story. They just wanted a better life for their kids. And my mom sort of had to career paths plotted out for me. One was was being an architect and the other one was dentistry and between those I actually just sort of put them together and identified architecture with root canal. And all the things that I hated you know around going to the dentist but I always had a passion for art and I wanted to be a filmmaker or multimedia artists and I went to reunion and studied there and really my whole life had been making things. So there's some point in my I career at Cooper Union. I decided to take a class in architecture. And it's sort of drew me and I don't know what it was but it wasn't necessarily about coming coming out of school to be a professional architect at all. It was about the discourse it was about a way of thinking so I was able to channel my serve creative energies into to thinking about space and program and conventions of the every day and then just one thing led to another and we had some opportunities opportunities to build ideas in physical space and some permanently and we just got drawn more into architecture UH realizing that is possible to actually construct ideas rather than what I had thought before which was intellectually bankrupt. That was the preconception I had. So I'm happy today as I sort of our career in our studio has been morphing all the time we're taking on bigger and bigger challenges all over the world but at the same time this independent work continues to happen. There are always two or three independent projects that are self generated that are going going on in the studio where we need to raise money. We need to convince people to do things sometimes by commission but very often by just the the desire to execute something in public space. I mean tell me about that. I feel the studio really does approach everything in such a multi disciplinary away and you very much effort in the arts world still uneven. You know you're working designing with prod. I mean that seems to be a lot going the on. Do you think you're different in a way in the fact that you still like to do all these things that aren't always profit making you're still interested in stuff that's just in a way for the greater good or for arts in general totally. I think that we are different. I think recognize especially as the founding partners in the studio are wired that way and we will always continue to do independent experiments. One of the most recent that came off is the my long opera on the high line. We decided after having worked on the highland for so many years and seeing the hugh transformation and some for the good and some. I'm not for the good. Lots of gentrification that we really wanted to make a kind of creative response post occupancy response to it so so we decided to do this performance piece it had to be an opera and it had to take on this operatic project and content which is is the transformation of the city and the misaligned rhythms of its inhabitants. That was the idea and so this piece was for one thousand singers us. That were dispersed all along the mile and a half of the high line with an audience that was basically wandering through promenading through from start to the end and leaning in to hear these individual voices with beautiful micro stories about how their lives have changed changed with the transformation rob transformation of the city. Not necessarily about that specific site but generally about gentrification central location of New York. I was there. It was incredible. I mean there were so many great little touches from even the lights in the caps that the singers will wearing sort of luminated their faces to people who were cleaning windows in the buildings as you walked along the Hi line. I mean. We've talked about the highland but we haven't really talked about the highlight because this is in many ways it sort of project that really catapulted the studio to international fame. All you surprise is looking back now. Just how many other cities around the globe sort of referenced it and wanted to copier and just really how much of a reaction reaction. It's had one totally surprised and to. I'm thrilled by it. You know in many cases I would feel like well. No that's like I would feel very possessive of a project and if I see it repeated everywhere I would feel somehow that is inappropriate but in this case I feel like we touched a nerve. Serve a global nerve if you will today in our culture. We're very fixed to our screens. And somehow imagine that public life you you know doesn't matter out in physical space but it does and the success of the high line in and of itself. The original highland is proof that people still want to come out into public space and do something as old fashioned as walking and sitting. Because after all you can't do much there you can't really ride ride a bike or you can't bring a dog. You can't throw a Frisbee you basically walk and sit and it's turned out to be such a hit because urbanites nights don't actually understand the notion of doing nothing you know and I think it's like an invention for them. Wow there's a place where I'm not working king or burning calories or you know being productive. It's a place to do nothing. And I think that that spurred has really really caught on on up kind of moment in parentheses away from everything seeing New York from a different perspective but where it really hit that nerve was the sort of desire to be in public space because of privatization of space public space is being eaten up all the time. And it's up to policymakers acres all over the world to protect public space. Really for the use of the public and even if it means rethinking spent infrastructure rather than destroying trying it so this is a very sustainable approach to city building. Elizabeth diller speaking to add stocker back in April as influential eventual and in demand as diller may be her fine cultural spaces and planning many of the challenges found in cities. Need to be tackled from the ground up one of the most pressing thing issues. We've been thinking about here in London. Is The troubling increase in homelessness all the more shocking considering the pockets of extraordinary wealth in the city in two thousand on seven Londoners Sheila Scott and Louis Salvo Ni decided to take matters into their own hands and opened a non government. Funded free homeless shelter. It's it's called shelter from the storm and do look up and after years in a temporary space in King's cross in two thousand nineteen. They officially opened a new home. Purposely designed by the architect attacks Holland Harvey in Archway North. London we invited Sheila Scott from shelter from the storm architect Richard Holland from Holland Harvey and term. It would from Insulin Clinton Council to discuss the issue in greater depth shelter. The storm is an emergency shelter. That means he's not home. It's not a hostile. It's a place where we look after homeless people we give them a badge gives them dinner. We give them breakfast. We try to address their needs. Try to help them find employment such live deal support for meagre shoes. Have we offer counseling we offer. So classes it's basically basically a holistic way of trying to help people move old up out of the streets term it. I'm GONNA come to you at this point anecdotally. We're told that London is an extraordinary prosperous interesting place to live but it would seem that we do have a problem with homelessness. How bad is that situation on the ground from where you're setting? The problem with homelessness across the capital is desperate. It's especially acute in London especially in the BIRLA. Ours is Lincoln we have just under fourteen thousand households on our housing register. That's fourteen thousand households that are either Desperately Overcrowded rided Sofa surfing and temporary accommodation. There's all kinds of ways you can be homeless at a desperate situation. We are building council homes as much as we possibly can as Lenton consular. Sales are building five. Hundred Fifty Costal homes between Ny on twenty twenty two and along with Housing Association partners. Were building a total of nine thousand. Nine hundred genuinely affordable homes across the border. But it's not enough. There is too much much red tape around. The building of console homes. Austerity has changed things beyond belief. The housing benefit cap makes it so difficult to Get somewhere to live in the private sector on. Of course most people in the private sector are not only with sky high rents there also faced with very very very uncertain tenures the biggest cause of homelessness in London right now is quite simply the end of an assured shorto tendency Anisi generally the twelve months long at the end of the contract attendance here in the UK has basically got no rights. The LONARD can say I'm very sorry but you've got to go and when thinking about the design of spaces specifically for people who are homeless to offer them legal advice to give them a nutritious meal and even a simple thing that other other people might take for granted such as a quiet night sleep where they felt safe with design preconceptions. Jonathan that you guys needed to question the need for instance for white clean surfaces everywhere restaurant environment that could could change every evening was who she lives expensive actually dealing with people and how they use. These spaces informative here. Oh massively it was Dermott center which is about kind of creating stable. Can warm homes is like the same goes for the design of a shelter. So it's at the heart of it. There is the kitchen. The kitchen is the kind of almost primal thing that we do together. And so I guess. Learning from seeing the the shelter was was achieving. The same way which is at the heart of it is a kitchen and around radiates these other functions say they eat together the one of the main function one of the main things things that happens every night in the shelters these community tables and they sit. Everyone's together so the idea that the volunteers are being the senator cooking and then together they eat and then from everything kind of goes guys from there. And then from there then start to have discussions as oppose Abou- Aesthetic and materials. And and I suppose the big question is how do you indeed `institutionalise space to ensure that sense of home that that your nor in a system. You're just somewhere secure way. You can rebuild your your life the radiated I into every kind of design decision that we made at the end of the day you show within a challenging shell was was very much a shell. There was nothing we had to create every aspect of it so it was an amazing opportunity to say. Well what if you create it from scratch. Uh Uh space a place that could rehabilitate these people. In the best way possible ultimately lead wolves we will need a floor. We need lives now. They don't need to be If we take that approach that we took to giving someone the most amazing experience in a hotel. Why couldn't you take that same principle and ultimately then spent time you spend a lot of time finding running really cost effective materials or just finding suppliers who are willing to do to do it for nothing in US have to speak to twenty different supplies about single tile? But you know that tile needs to have is that right feeling to create a space and if you don't find that out actually you won't how the guests in the way that they could you could enhance experience and therefore hopefully with a stable. They can build from from the from assaulted Sunday background so she led to bring you in here. Why is it taking so long for us to have a free free homeless shelter in London? And how easy is it to find the kind of space that you need to then give Jonathan the the the floor plan to say. Hey let let's get this thing going. Let's humanize the space. It was incredibly difficult to find the space we. This is the force shelter that we've had and hopefully it's going to be permanent home. People off frightened of the homeless big narrative around homelessness sort of media very negative media narrative about the homeless. I believe that is because it is. It's convenient to make people feel that the poor and the homeless a somehow culpable so If they were Daochi good working people than on his Jason Labor. They would be because a lot of people that we we all know however if they somehow different we wouldn't have. This problem are identified the use but I clearly uttering you can other people You can make it feel like they're somehow apart from us and therefore we really have to worry about them and they will won't classically they'll use stories about. It's all to do with drink drugs and substance misuse mental health. I'm sure you can everybody. Nobody can think of the arguments that we have a budget all experiences that and statistics bear. This is actually the horrendous ranges rents and the terrible tenancy arrangements in the private rented sector the lack of council housing that got sold off right left and center and there was never the facility there to replace it it. It's just not been replaced wages minimum wage which I refuse to call a living wage. Because it's not to. Living wage is not enough to live on these. Are the real issues around around housing and we have fought what. I can't tell you how hard it's been. It's probably this lost eighteen months trying to find somewhere even when when we managed to get amazing people that helped us we. We raise all the money ourselves. We managed to get a mortgage. We managed to do all of the stuff literally getting people to let uh spilled this beautiful place. It's been so difficult. There's been so much negative attitudes from people. I we a US still. I think we're getting there. We're willing hearts and minds. I call it trying to show people really this is it look. It's nothing to be frightened off. This is a beautiful place. This is a place where people can grow where they can we generate where they can be alive where they can be reintegrated into society. Not Really Sheila Scott. From shelter from the storm there architect Richard Holland and is linked counsels. Dermot Ward they were speaking to me back in July at twenty nine thousand nine. We'll we'll be listening back to our meeting with book. Designer Irma Boom. After this you're listening to monocle on design. Don't go anywhere and you'll back with Monica on design. I'm still Josh Bennett. With nearly at the end of the program and we're in the closing hours of two thousand nine hundred. Nineteen two will embark on. This show's final chapter with the Dutch book. Designer boom so boom has collaborated with artists. Such his laugher eliason plus design fashion brands numbering vitro and Chanel anti work which sees her examine the structure and flow of a book with the scrupulous. I have an architect macos well. Beyond judging one by its cover Monaco's business editor Venetia. Rainy met Irma boom the designers Amsterdam studio in February two thousand nineteen so I'm working long long always on many projects. elway's thing that I'm lazy so that I need to do. I always keep plates in the air and guess yes. We Love Drennan Lynn. You mentioned that you're working on something for the next museum. Can we talk about that. Yes so I work already. I think fifteen years for the museum. Even Wedneday were so-called record. Close this small part was opened and I started working for them and they reopened six years ago five years ago and then they asked. Yes we to make the logo and I always thought if two big museum ovens invited big designer office or agency to work on their new identity. Today's but they asked me so the tiny tiny office and as I read a logo for them with a space x Space Museum which people were not happy with it because in Holland Museum is one word but in the Netherlands. We have to so-called space. Police and space. Police said is was US wrong at the National Museum for sure Expel Museum rights. And that's as one word but I thought Access such a weird word so I wanted to make it more as an image house who we have to the letters. I J which is a sound which only early Dutch people can pronounce and then weren't museum is generic so I saw two specific generic and then we have to space. It's very special but anyway it's caused a a lot of rumor but in the end people said well I didn't change. The word. Museum made a logo artistic freedom and saw. Aw professors from universities all protecting me and giving arguments why it was good but anyway I work for the museum mm-hmm and before I did small works with Hedge Museum but now I do all their books which is amazing and I also do a design exhibitions. That's and that's when we fantastic's how at the moment there are two new exhibition in both. We designed as specially the older Rembrandt exhibition. Which Che's amazing that the museum shows all the rembrandts? They have which is about four hundred works. The paintings are on Great Wall. So it's a combination of blue and gray to blue walls are sort of a harmonica securely. You do stuff other than books which l. let people not do you get sick of being known as the Queen of books and being hold like pass over. I am the person I think even if I make an the exhibition as a book designer. I'm also an editor and my little red book. I also say that you can compare the work. I'm I'm doing like a film director. It's all about giving direction like elements of architecture. Which I did? We've REMCO has I was also to say the director. I made sort of system how to read a book with two thousand five hundred pages so it's giving directions. It's editing and helping the people how to Manage so much information it's really yeah. Directing but to make an exhibition is exactly the same. It's also making direction and helping people how to get the best out of it. If they spend an hour two hours in a museum you need to help them how to look and where to look and what is interesting. And that's directing. But in a very seamless way if people go to the museum it's see Rembrandt Exhibition. They hardly feel my I designed but it's definitely there and it's the same way for example Edmonds of architecture book. It's a sort of concept. It's an idea which I do without without compromise for me. Making an exhibition is making a book. A making a book is making an exhibition for me. The difference is not that big but I am making books is what I do. Ninety eight percent of my job. I'm really intrigued by something that I read that you said in another interview you said that you work never never art but you do consider architecture. Where's that line few? Why why is it never us? Why does that both the well? I went to art school to become a painter and I saw that for me But it's really the reason if your painter in the best way like there was a an artist in the Netherlands called Danda phone holden which I admire hugely. He was his autonomous person. Who who marketing didn't even out a word? I died unfortunately a few years ago but he did whatever he wanted to do. And he always had a necessity from insight to make Silkscreen to make a painting to make a photograph also for him medium. Didn't matter it was the I rich was made it down for hold apiece and then didn't produce that much work. He only did what he thought he should do. So for me. I had this enormous enormous admiration. But I didn't know what to do when I was at article and studying painting I didn't know what to do. I really thought I need took somebody to ask me something. Then I get to work so for me. There's this sort of difference that if you want to make something that it's like an artist it's comes from yourself. It's not commission of course in that Acts Museum from Mir the old commission but they also were autonomous thinkers and makers and. I had to feeling that I needed to be commissioned and there is the the line. Do you have a book that you're most proud. Go pats a book that you feel. Didn't quite get to the place. He wanted it to get too well. It's interesting so I if I give a lecture somewhere always bring the real books I never showy away. PDF's and my books are not PDF's. Because I work with the book. And how a book functions. So it's turning the pages there is a Sequenced stairs await stairs smelled size. There's proportion so for me that's really important. So if I give a talk doc every you suitcase works always one suitcase. Because books are so heavy. How many books can it depends what I bring before four hours to two suitcases? Twenty one books. I am daughtry into numerology. It always has to do something with three. So to Casa the fall last week abroad twelve oaks because one and two is three so the books I always bring is to s h fee thing book I made started just to make in one thousand nine hundred ninety which was a pivotal moment in bookmaking because then Internet was new yeah became more democratic critic because it was of course already there but then people started to use it and that was a jubilee book for Multinational Base here in the Netherlands and Dennis. Oh well if you get a project on which you can work five years. Let's do something special. But then in the end it was so new to new media everybody and after five years imagine if we would have made a CD-ROM DVD didn't exist. Then you couldn't play it anymore. So that's why I decided. Take a book by the book based on the idea of Internet and I was totally fearless designer and wish always that I was as fearless as then and so for me. Those books remind me to experiment because to experiment to try things and even to make mistakes. I think that is crucial. So if you want to develop and if you want to develop in for me in making boom that speaking to Monaco's very own Venetia rainy back in February. And that's all we have time for on today's show and for twenty nine thousand nine for that matter will be back next week in twenty twenty when we'll be joined by architect Cepeda Cook and design writer. I took kt triggered and to look ahead to the ideas shaping the year four more design stories. You can hit subscribe to this show. And you'll also get a mini mid week. podcast on design nine extra. And if you like the stories we tell you should also apply monocle magazine which is available on older self respecting newsstands now. MONOCLE on design was produced by Tom Hall and it was edited. Edited by May Evans. I'm Josh Fan at thank you very much for listening and fierce support into nineteen and for me and the team wishing you a very happy new year

London Elizabeth diller New York Sheila Scott the Netherlands director Josh Bennett Tiffany US Monica Dot Com RENFRO Monaco Richard Holland Jonathan editor Monaco design Pritzker prize Sir Terry Farrell Monaco
GSMC Social Media News Podcast Episode 179: Viral Cottage Cheese and Talking Like a Pirate

GSMC Social Media News Podcast

35:18 min | 1 year ago

GSMC Social Media News Podcast Episode 179: Viral Cottage Cheese and Talking Like a Pirate

"It's cutting into your exercise time it stabbing you in the back nine and it's attacking your peace of mind. It's pain and it's getting in between you and the life if you want to live CD medic target your pain added source it's fast acting relief with active. OTC ingredients plus the added benefits of THC free hemp oil get get back to your life with CBD medic available online and that CBS these statements have not been evaluated by the FDA. This product is not intended to diagnose treat cure or prevent any disease Kulin state media concepts social media podcast time to Hash to everything we talk about all the foreign crazy crazy stories on social media instagram facebook twitter to tumbler probably friendster join his each as we explored the Quirky Lisa of social media is the Golden State Media Concept Social Media podcast simple such as the the one that the one that used to do onstage brought to you by the GMC podcast. I am your host Sarah and we are. We are together again to talk about what is going on in the world of social media what is trending what is showing up on our news feeds all of that good stuff and our first story makes me feel all although I should have realized that that this was the case because it is the twenty-fifth anniversary of friends this fall and when I think about it I do realize has it has been twenty five years since it came out but it doesn't feel that long I remember starting to watch it but when I realized how old I was and where in the world I was when it started yeah. It has been twenty five years at any rate to celebrate liberate this twenty five year anniversary. There is a a Google doodle. I don't know if anybody talked about on your social media news today but it popped up on mind several times and this is about the Easter eggs that are pretty probably very well known to friends fans so if you are if you Google let's say friends Ross and then that comes up and there's a picture of a a couch next to it see quick on the couch and it changes the so it's straight in the angles up a little bit and and you hear pivot yes so you click it more than once and you'll and I keep saying pivot of course and pervert as he said if you clicked one too many times though you'll hear US say okay. I don't think it's going to pivot anymore more and I did not click it too many times so I did not know that that was a possibility if you do the Chandler search you get and it's so cute his armchair POPs up which isn't a coupon but then chicken duck come out and they just waddle all around the screen or back and forth across the screen. It's very adorable Rachel's I didn't think was that exciting. It was just a picture of her hair wasn't really interactive at took you to pictures of Jennifer Aniston with the Rachel which her hair became iconic for and so the other three you'll just have to go look because look for because they're cute if your friends fan than these will definitely make you smile because they are some of the some of the the the moments pivot many many memes have been made out of pivot which actually reminds signed me oh my gosh for fans who search for friends glossary. I did not know this part for friends. Glossary the search engines will pull definitions for unfluffy full Lange Flange hand twin and Mississippi Valley just in case you needed reminding and actually I had forgotten about a couple of those so I may have to go google friends glossary but also I learned something think rather interesting this week about memes and this again is where you're going to know that a Dork because I subscribe to the daily word from from Merriam Webster Webster Dictionary and they told me where the origin of the word meme came from and I've always wondered that frankly so since this is the social media podcast news podcast it seems logical that we should talk about memes and maybe you've wondered where that word came came from because it's kind of a dumb word I mean mean it doesn't make a lot of sense when we think of memes we usually think of you know pictures with captions or things that pop up on our social media fee feeds but the word museum isn't new it actually dates to evolutionary biologist Richard Dawkins nineteen seventy six book the selfish gene and again this is from Merriam webster where it functioned with a meaning other than its current most common one that says kind of pop pop culture sort of thing in dachshunds conception of the term it is a unit of cultural transmission. The cultural equivalent of a gene and his book is quoted as saying we didn't we need a name for the new replicator announced conveys. The idea of a unit of cultural transmission or unit of imitation. Mini name comes from a suitable Greek route but I want a mono syllable. That sounds a bit like Jean. I hope my closest friends will forgive me. If I abbreviate rebate. Sorry not many me am I m e m mean to me it is if it is any consolation it should it could alternate alternatively be thought of as being related to memory or to the French word men it should be pronounced to rhyme with cream team so it's not Mimi it's me and then he goes on to describe what it is actually intended to refer to examples of memes teams are tunes ideas catchphrases clothes fashions ways of making pots or of building arches just as jeans propagate themselves in the gene pool by leaping from body to body via sperm or eggs so memes propagate themselves in the mean pool by leaping from brain to brain via a process which in the broad sense can be called hold imitation so there you go so memes in in that I mean that's the way they were originally originally thought it's definitely different. I am not sure when Mr Dawkins wrote that book he had any idea of how it was going to evolve over time but I don't know would he be pleased with the current iteration of names. I don't really know the answer but I I'm so happy to have finally discovered the origin of the word and to figure out what the heck and now I'm less annoyed with it because it used to just seem dumb now. I know there's an actual story behind it. This next story makes my heart happy and it kept popping up on my news feed my facebook newsfeed from several people one friend said to me directly and then others posted about it and that is that little people there are now Yellow Submarine Little People Beatles Yellow Submarine First of all. I know you'll see the marine it's bright. It's colorful. It's crazy so most but there are so many figurines with yellow submarine and I would be fine with little people that weren't yellow submarine and Beatles little people that weren't yellow submarine but a when you look at them on the shopping page Fisher price says get ready to rock and roll with a little help from your friends John Lennon Paul McCartney George Harrison and Ringo Starr with the special edition celebrity little people's figure pack each member of the iconic band. The Beatles is brought down to little people twice is and they are addressed of course in their classic yellow submarine outfits and they're adorable and I would like them so I need to. If you have somebody who loves me by little people or a I love me. I love me. I could buy them for myself. That would be fine although well it's it's showing doing walmart out of stock target out of Stock Amazon Not Available Day so I don't know where to tell you to buy. Oh no recall alert. Click here for more information. Oh the Beatles have been recalled now. I'm so sad never mind. It was something completely different. I was sucked in. It was like Click Bait only important click bait about recalls but it's not the little people they have not been recalled. Everyone calm down. It's fine okay. Here's my little I think these were horrible. I would like to set but little people are not what they look like. When I was a little people when they now ah feet when I was little they just little round was a round bottoms which is not exactly conveying the correct yet so the the bottom portion of the little person was just around circle? They didn't have legs or feet and then all of the little people accessories just had little round holes holes and so they popped right in chair at a camper and the truck had little holes the school bus had little holes you just pop them in. We even had a toilet for the camper of curse and so yeah. I don't mean to again once again. Be telling you how old I am. I am sad that that the little people of my of my childhood would no longer go with the little people of current childhood. Oh well we can all coexist together together right. All little people knew little people my sesame street little people from when I was a child could hang out with my Beatles little people from my adulthood. I think it works at any rate. We are going to take our first break of the podcast and when we come back we'll be talking about boot snake doodles among other things so stay tuned you're listening to the GE MC Social Media News podcast and I'll be right back. Hey sports fans. Football season is here and the time has come for you and your friends to have some fun. mybookie dot net is the industry leading sports action website that offers Real Vegas odds on football the Baseball Basketball College and all your favorite sports events you can take aside total or try their in game live action go to mybookie dot net to open an account and use Promo co-champion into our amazing price pool. That's my bookie dot net Promo Code Champion kid in on the action today no deposit as necessary terms and conditions apply for entertainment purposes only Ford where prohibited right now at T. Mobile get an apostle iphone ten are on us when you bring your family over trade in your old device because whether you have mom dad or a friend on your mind it's a gift so bold and brilliant you WanNa keep it for yourself. Most importantly it's on us in six vibrant colors plus unlimited everything from t mobile. He possum iphone ten are we'll have everyone snapping streaming contrary to their hearts content all year long but don't wait. It's only for a limited time so visit a store or call one eight hundred t mobile to get iphone ten hour on us if congested customers using more than fifty gigs is per month may notice reduced speeds student prioritization video at forty P. B. At twenty four monthly bill credits for well qualified customers plus tax qualifying traded services and finance agreement required contact before canceling in her credit stopping remaining balance do sixty get zero down thirty one twenty five per month for twenty four months pre-credit price seven forty nine ninety nine zero percents. Apr One offer per account back. You want to be healthier yet. You just don't know what to do. All these shows telling you this and that but nothing seems CBS to work will listen close golden state media concepts has something great for you. The health and wellness podcast dedicated workout trends healthy eating habits Diane everything about healthy living join us in our banters as we help you not just live life to the fullest the limited to the healthiest welcome back to our this story is an animal story but thankfully not like youth animal story as we often get in the world of social media and the Internet and all of those good things but they'll this is and it's about snakes and I know everybody is a fan of snakes but snakes actually are pretty fascinating creatures and well you know the latest in the latest thing that seems to be happening is that people are either using sharpies on regular pictures or they are using probably probably not sharpies on regular pictures but they are using photoshop or whatever to make look lecture. He's on regular pictures and So oh according to this article which is from Poured Panda sometime ago a wise person decided to doodle hands on a cute picture of snaky found the result was so satisfying he shared it on the Internet and then the doodle war began sometime time ago we asked our readers take part in this war and we are so glad we did snakes don't always have the best reputation and are certainly not the cutest but it turns out that all they needed were some expressive arms and hands see all snakes need to be cute as just a little jazz. They just need jazz hands. Pour snakes were born without jazz hands. so these pictures are hilarious. I mean there's a snake that is the first one is the snake is this guy looks like an albino snake. First of all it is coiled and it looks like it's going to strike but then somebody gave an arms with finger guns and so so now instead of being the snake is going to bite you and kill you. It is it's doing a little you know hey kinda thing and it's pretty fabulous but according to National Geographic if you want a little more information there are more than three thousand species of snakes on the planet three one thousand species who they are found everywhere except Antarctica Iceland and Ireland Iceland. Excuse me Antarctica Iceland Flint Ireland Greenland and New Zealand about six hundred species are venomous and only about two hundred seven percent are able to kill or significantly wound a human actually. I didn't realize that there were so few the venomous side when I think of snakes that leaves twenty four hundred non on venomous species of snakes that's pretty impressive non venomous snakes which ran from harmless garter snakes to the not so harmless python okay they can still squeeze you to death dispatch their victims by swallowing them alive constricting them to death whether they killed by striking with venom or squeezing nearly all snakes excrete their food whole in sometimes astoundingly large portions. Thanks National Geographic actually that's that is interesting. Okay a snake on towel but somebody drew arms on it so it looks like it is leaning on its leaning. It's Chin on its hand looking kind of bored a snake the snake and says I need my morning coffee and when you draw arms and a cup of coffee the snake just looks completely disgruntled and like it's too early in the morning wing almost all snakes again according to National Geographic are covered in scales and as reptiles they're cold blooded and must regulate their body temperature externally scales serve several purposes they trap moisture in and in an era of climate sorry or not and in arid climates and reduce friction as snake moves there have been several species of snakes discovered that are mostly scales but even those have scales on their bellies snakes also have forked tongues which they flick in different directions to smell their surroundings. That's how they know. When danger or food is nearby? Why Oh my gosh this one is not only got arms on it but they did little sunglasses? It's Cobra little sunglasses saxophone. Okay you really should look at these because I'm not just going to keep describing them to you but they really are adorable. Who Knew Yeah you should definitely you should definitely go to board panda and find snakes with arms because yeah? I think you'll thank me. It's it's pretty entertaining but moving on from snakes with arms because someday you have to move on from snakes with arms sadly we are going to talk about Sean Bean Sean Bean is an actor if you aren't familiar with him and it turns out that Sean Bean Has Been Killed Twenty three three times it not Sean Bean Himself Sean Bean's characters have been killed twenty three times his most maybe well known roles where when he was killed he was born near and Lord of the Rings and he was killed in the first movie of the trilogy so he didn't even get to you know he didn't even get to continue that quest well. I mean you know boroughmuir dies in the first book to it wasn't just like it was shot because it was sean bean but he also played Ned stark in game of thrones and people thought oddball. It's Sean beanie well. Maybe people didn't think because they'd seen Sean bean rolls before but ned stark dead so many people on campus drones are Ted Though so Hello Sean Bean Twenty three twenty three times his character has been killed and he said that he started to rethink how he he accepts roles you know he doesn't want to continue to be killed because he says it's it's now. It's just predictable. People expect him to die and he made some comment about his character was supposed to die in a role well and he was like really no and they said well. Can you just be severely wounded. There's even a campaign Hashtag something like stop killing Sean on being. I think that's what it is. Stop Killing Sean Bean and there's a picture of Sean Bean wearing a shirt with the HASHTAG which I think is appropriate so this is just an example to me of weirdness that shows up on the Internet but still makes me smile. I mean that's the thing with the Internet anymore. Is You get you noticed something. Sean bean gets killed a lot in his roles that kind of stinks but then than you realize other people have noticed it too because they have made memes they have made you know things pop up online and that makes me laugh so I lost my my train of thought but it does make me laugh. Don't Kill Stop Killing Sean Bean. I agree I like him but this also makes me think of the vicar of Dibley which is a BBC show so if you've ever seen it it is about a female Anglican priests in the fictional town of Dibley. It's been it was a while ago that it was on. It's one of my favorite. BBC shows starring Dawn French and dawn French the picture changes in her in her home but she is the she is the the vicar the priest in this village and above her desk in her home she has picture of Jesus and next to it a picture of Sean Bean sometimes it's other actors but for a while she had a picture of Sean Bean and she often talks to Jesus and these liberty picture simultaneously simultaneously during the episodes ended always made me laugh so I have a soft spot in my heart for Sean Bean simply because of vicar of Dibley we're sure but hey you gotta you gotTa Find Your Fun. Where you can right okay we are going to take our second break break of podcast? When we come back we are going to talk about some viral cottage cheese which could go in many directions so so you're gonNA have to come back after the break to find out what is viral about this cottage cheese so stay tuned listening to the GMC Social Media News podcast and I'll we'll be right back? It's cutting into your exercise time it stabbing you in the back nine and attacking your peace of mind it's pain and getting in between you and the life you want to live CD medic targets your pain at its source. It's fast acting relief with active. OTC ingredients plus the added benefits of THC FREE HEMP oil get back to your life with CBD medic available online and at CBS these statements have not been evaluated by the FDA. This product is not intended to diagnose treat recur or prevent any disease. It's cutting into your exercise time. It's stabbing you in the back nine and it's attacking your peace of mind aw it's pain and it's getting in between you in the life you want to live. CBD Medic targets your pain at its source. It's fast acting relief with active. OTC ingredients plus plus the added benefits of THC FREE HEMP oil get back to your life with CBD medic available online at Cvs these statements have not been evaluated by the FDA. This product is not intended to diagnose treat cure or prevent any disease tired of searching the vast jungle of podcasts. Now listen close and here this out. There's a podcast network that covers just about everything that you've been searching the golden state media concepts podcast network our is here nothing less than a podcast list with endless hours of podcast cupboards from news sports music fashion looking Tabeth fantasy football so much more so stop lurking around and go straight out to the golden state media concepts podcast network guaranteed deep to build that podcast whatever it may be visit us at. WWW DOT JESUS MC podcast dot com follow us on facebook and twitter and download on itunes soundcloud and Google play the food in essence part so cottage cheese. Some people are fans. Some people are not we once had an intern at a place where I worked highschool intern nicest sweetest kid but he was just horrified by the thought of cottage cheese so one day when we were out to lunch he and another coworker ordered some cottage cheese just because neither of them had tried it so I commend them for trying hit I don't know if it's an acquired taste or if it is just something that you either love or hate but this is a cottage edged cheese tub that has gone viral not viral well. Actually it might be viral for one reason because it could be filled with okay so this bacteria virus but work with me here here but it went viral online because it was left in an office fridge for seven years. That's a health hazard people so so this is the you know we when when you think about office refrigerators you tend to think about things that get left that don't that are in there after past their expiration date you get the the snarky notes about don't steal my food than you get the people who steal the food a the office refrigerator as a place of much drama but this story story is from a Reddit user J. B. J. G. Bones also known as Julia from Philadelphia and she shared. I heard the office legend that is a tub of pineapple cottage cheese okay. Does it have chunks of pineapple in it. I would assume so I mean cottage cheese is often served with fruit but I didn't realize that they made pineapple cottage cheese. I don't get out much so this little tub of cheesy weirdness as survived in the Fridge for seven years. Now why okay anyway happy anniversary to this little tub of pineapple oh cottage cheese it has now survived seven years in our work fridge without being thrown out. I take a picture of it each year. Julia wrote and there is in fact fact picture of her with this each year so Julia said that her secret is that the cheese is indeed hers. She says I bought it back. In twenty twelve opened it tasted it hated it and threw it in the fridge so apparently it's low fat and has weird faked pineapple apple in it. Okay it managed to get pushed to the back. I forgot about it. No one touched it and then sure enough it managed to survive a whole year with no one touching it then it became a joke. No one wanted to throw it out. Have they open it recently other cheeses and a tub with the lid on the seal has been broken but it's never the perpetrator of any weird odors we moved offices earlier this year and now we have more room to fridges no smells and were happy family. Besides everyone respects the the cheese. It has been there a long time. I admire their commitment. Wow again. I'm just wondering do does. There's no smells clear. They're opening it. I'm thinking because it would definitely smell if you opened it. Julia is waiting for the right time to open up the cheese as or throw it away either when she leaves the job or it hits ten years residents in the fridge or maybe bestowed on another colleague. She adds the laugh. I I haven't opened it since I bought it so I wonder what it looks like inside. My boyfriend is incredibly against it staying in the fridge at home so it's got a bunch of post it notes saying don't toss and everyone here in the office knows not to touch it and there's a close up of the cottage cheese container with the expiration date which was September number seventeenth twenty twelve wow non-fat pineapple cream cheese or cottage cheese interesting. Oh the I comment makes me laugh. I'm depressed to think that a container of cottage cheese lasted longer to company I ever did oh sorry that is sad but but also kind of funny finally we shall talk about the fact that today is talk like a pirate day every year September nineteenth talk like a pirate day and I was never fully sure why it was was September nineteenth but it turns out that this was created by to Oregon two men from Oregon to Oregonians and they created it because they were playing a game of racquetball. The of course does not make sense so this is from Albany Oregon and the holiday which is known as talk like a pirate day was started during a game of racquetball between two friends. the quote is we started taunting each other with pirate phrases like our that be a fine cannon aid and you slap that one off the off off me missing being massed. Maybe can't even say that we had so much fun doing this game with pirate words that we decided there ought to be a day in every one day and every year here where every band woman and child is encouraged to talk like a pirate said Mark Mark Summers otherwise known as Cap'n sloppy of course there's a picture of the two of them in there pirate gear looking very festive and entertaining so he and his friend John Bauer Org Chum Bucket as he's otherwise known played the game on June sixth but new since it was d day that day was off limits so we settle on September nineteenth which was my ex wife's birthday. We weren't being mean. The date was just stuck in my head summers and it stuck for around for the first seven even years the holiday was observed by close friends. It was really simple. It was like about four or five friends all knew about it and we would call each other at work and talk like Caparo Day and go and hang up and that was the extent of talk like a Pirate Day back then seventy seven years later they pitched the idea to a columnist at the Miami Cami Herald after his column was printed the holiday took off pretty soon mark John or getting phone calls from all over summer said we're getting interviews for with media outlets from Australia to the BBC New Zealand Ireland Denmark South America. We were headed. We're hearing from everywhere from people who were just excited to be playing pirate. Never expecting it to become what it is. Today summer says he's happy to be a part of a somewhat cult holiday. We gave the pirate community Christmas. This is their holiday. It's been kind of fun to be the Santa to a whole new celebration that is awesome. I have never thought I mean I. I always think about how the holidays get started because as I've said before there are multiple holidays as on every day of the year if you ever go to one of those calendar sites and look at the holidays you will see that there are just a million holidays and so I always kind of wonder how they get started and it's fun to know the back story of this of this this son Pirate Day in conclusion inclusion. I will say that tomorrow is September twentieth because today is September nineteenth. Talk like a day and it's the day we're supposed to we. I don't mean me. I'm not going but the day that people are supposed to be storming area fifty one. You know that there will be reporting on what actually happened because there's there's going to be news stories. There's going to be stories who knows if anything will actually happen but there will will be stories regardless of people you know they'll they'll be there. They'll be looking out for people to Storm Area Fifty one. There will probably be food trucks or something. I don't even know I know they were. They were talking about doing a festival at one point. I'm not sure that that ever came about but hey as always I will. I will bring bring you that news next time on the next episode because we need we need to know what happened at Area Fifty one on September twentieth so so please do do join me for Monday's episode of the GMC Social Media News podcast in the meantime have a wonderful weekend and like I said join me on Monday so we can find out what's trending. You've been listening to the golden state media concepts social media podcast part of the Golden state media concept's CBS podcast network. You can find this show and others like it at. WWW DOT GS podcast dot com download our podcast broadcast on itunes stitcher soundcloud and Google play just type in Jess Mc to find all the shows from the golden state media concepts podcast network from movies to music from sports entertainment and even we are us you can also follow us on twitter and on facebook split. Thank you and we hope you have enjoyed today's program. It's cutting into your exercise time it stabbing you in the back nine and it's attacking your peace of mind. It's pain and it's getting in between you in the life you want to live. CBD Medic Targets Get your pain at its source. It's fast acting relief with active. OTC ingredients plus the added benefits of THC free boil get back to your life with CBD medic available billable online and at CBS these statements have not been evaluated by the FDA. This product is not intended to diagnose treat cure or prevent any disease right right now at T. mobile get an awesome iphone. Ten are on us when you bring your family over and trade in your old device. Whether you have mom dad or a friend on your mind it's a gift so bold and brilliant you WanNa keep it for yourself. Most importantly it's on us in six vibrant colors plus with unlimited everything from t mobile the Possum iphone ten will have everyone snapping streaming cheery to their hearts content all year long but don't wait. It's only for a limited time so visit a store or call one eight hundred t mobile to get iphone ten are on us if congested customers using more than fifty gigs per month may notice reduce speeds student prioritization organization video at Forty P. B. At twenty four monthly

Sean Bean Sean Bean CBS Google FDA cure facebook CBD Beatles Sean Bean Richard Dawkins National Geographic Julia Jennifer Aniston T. Mobile Mississippi Valley Sarah twitter
#285 - What Is Going On Here?

The Basement Yard

57:24 min | Last month

#285 - What Is Going On Here?

"Welcome back to the basement yard patriot. How you doing frank. Why did you start like that. I don't know i was full on ready for you. Two things one. Yes just farted to traveled up my my sweater and it smells like a pumpkin. Really impressive usually. I i would pay for that afar fletch. No one's ever paid people. Say for far fucking far. Forty pay paid parts. People pay for us. People definitely paver paying far definitely like an old italian woman how they make sauce and put it in the garage afar jars and put it in my garage. People be so fucking hype if you did that is sometimes far and it smells like a doctor's office another time in a rubber glove pumpkins and other times fucking poop. Yeah well that last one makes the most sense. Yeah that one is most of the time usually when i eat ice cream really do you get. Do they like hurt you do. They burn sometimes farts. Burn butts eleven. That was canceled screen. And that was yeah. Yeah yeah no i. It doesn't really hurt too much. Because i like to eat healthy now. Candle baby back in the day to drink a lot of milk. It'd be thirsty. And i'm just gonna drink a ton of milk it'd be farting and it'd be burning. My my rim. Sounds pretty good. One thing. I wanted to say before we start here today. This is that before when you were in the bathroom. I was in the kitchen and i was eating a banana. Oh yeah and as you as you were coming out of the bathroom i was like. Oh this'll be a funny joke. So i pretended to take the banana and shoved it at my ass and which is like came so i was just in my in my kitchen. And no one's looking at. You had a smirk on your. Yeah i was like what the fuck is he doing. Why is he laughing. I was doing job. Chevrolet banana my ass and no one was there to see it so it was kind of. I can't tell you how embarrassing how so many stories of things like that. Where like bekker's come home and pretended to be like face down ass up like but naked concept. She doesn't like doesn't like walk into the room for a while. Also have to just like get dressed in my own sorrow. Shame for your bottles for the win for no reason it was you know but hey i mean some of my funniest moments. No one has been around to see. That's a fact jack. But this episode. Joey is Something i came up with Because i was going through the archives. And i was looking at stuff and i was pulling up old pictures in the title of this episode is what's going on here y- thirteen fifteen thousand pictures on your laptop that date back to like two thousand ten i they do they certainly do for my old and there's a lot that are still like on you know what i mean like. There are some pictures that are just like gone to the time. This is a decade of memories. This is this is a decade and memories and some even older than that. yeah. And what. I what i did is i pulled up pictures that you really haven't seen right and we're going to go through and we're gonna talk about them and say like what's going on here. Yeah i can only see the first one right now and as a hit next. I'll see the others but yeah let's talk about this one. This is the first one. This is chosen five. To four is fifteen sixteen years ago to things right off the bat about uranium witch hat and those boots wouldn't fit you now. They would wearing tubes baby new yorker remember those. That's the first pair of jeans i've ever like. I owned like like cute kid jeans but like as long as you've had jeans no cute kid genes like kids and gene oshkosh. Yeah and they're like oh like crumpled near like the legs and the arms. This was your first carpenter pant. There are no arms on jeans. Those are the one. Didn't have one of those straps where you could like. Hold a hammer in there. I'm sure sure i'm sure deputies. I remember this was like do you remember back in the day. You would buy one outfit and you would try to make. You'd wear that one outfit like once every two weeks two weeks every six days. Yeah you're frequent but my outfit was those jeans and those timberland boots. Which i didn't ever tie. Yeah yeah i mean. Listen and that's also address. I don't think. I wore jeans until i was fourteen years old. You there was a point in time where people don't realize i was compared to you. A fucking giant. Yeah it was a small little bit south of fucking boy house. Little tiny matt look at look at the size of your head compared to my fist. Yeah you coulda knocked my block. That's why you always kept me around. Because he knew. I could physically kill you probably until now i'm fat. You got better looking. And i think from there it just went downhill for me. I think it went uphill for a while. Did it and there was a slide. Do you remember where these pictures were. This was this was jamie's basement. Yes in love with you. Were hard in love with from kindergarten to five grade. Why the fuck pass that joe. I think it was like seventh grade non once we once. We parted school. I remember the past man knows you choir's the king note passing ladies and gentlemen. If you didn't know this king the king the king i would pass now. All hail the king. Let me tell you you pass those two. I would say. I was the intermediary like i would not be re written by you giving me to give to somebody else. That's all baby. i was just fucking passenger. Yeah but then in middle school are slamming. Those was slamming but not just little notes. Because that's what we do the right now here. I used to write fun romantic novel. Easter eight letters and pretend my name is yet. Oh god i'll never get over that. But yeah i remember this day specifically because and i remember those pants for some reason i remember those pants but this was in jamie's basement and someone took this one of those cameras that we had. We had a friend. I don't know that she's still a friend. We just don't see her ever Chelsea who just like followed everyone with we have. We have chelsea to thank for a lot of our memories because she just had a cameras he was really into photography. And like this is back before phones or for anything. She would take pictures of all the time and it would just. It was like a thing like oh goal. Yeah my space and it exactly where it was on my say and do you remember like in this photo shoot. We also like put on wigs and pretend to cut off. Your weiner pretended to have black. Weiner was that it was like a whip. There are a little weird things going on genius. Pc is going on down there. This is the least of the issue. A witch hat and then there was like a. It wasn't a penis but it was something that resembled a harry payne fallas very phallic looking item. One hundred and you put it in your pants. Pretend and there was a wig that we pretend to where your pews that yes that which back in the day. You had some wild tubes. You always say that you did. I remember. i remember. You had fucking cubes for days going to have to change your mind. Eventually because i've been keeping up with that is not not here. Craze fifteen million patrons will do that. This is a good old. They look at the just just not a care in the world sitting nice friendly couple of friends hanging out. The only thing we cared about is where we were putting our fingers. Yeah now each other. Well yeah no well. No one even knows you can interpret that how you will. Because i don't even know the answer is true talking about pubic. Yep yep all kinds of stuff. Let's get to the next next one. You got to click on the click on that. Have frank joey joey. What's going on here. Arrive frankie I don't know. I feel like i thoroughly you. Look at me. This is this is kind of like the any angle you get it right in your soul and like you feel like you're disappointed me when i'm actually disappointed in youth. Well listen. i'm disappointed at myself. I remember. I was in my first year of grad school. And that was the most my facial hair could do like. I just want to say this before you know. Go into like a long as yours. Yeah i just quick quick thing. That's socks it was such an awesome time. It was such that. I will say this stash is actually pretty nice. Not bad yeah. It's just everything around it. I didn't i didn't earn like my face is allowed to have that mustache there. I was pretty heavy. Fattest year i think i would say you. Look nothing like that right. Thank god yes. I remember i was like in my mornings. It was a part of my routine to wax the end of my mustache as i was thinking wax. No like i would. I would get i. I bought moustache wax just to twirl the end of it. That's good and it was a pretty. I mean that's a pretty good twirl. We got going on their baby. Yeah yeah it's something but yeah you look like a now. This was post. Ra frank first year are d. Frank is this someone that you hold in your your heart fucking. Hey is really why. It is what i can't even look at it. I can't even look at it. Because it's so distracting. Should i do know if yeah you can do it now. Yeah you could. Just don't have that big of a face and the mustache and glasses don't help either. Like those are stylistically dead like there's no fucking a barren wasteland of any sort of style. Yeah yeah you also just look like someone made you take this picture. We kind of like yeah fine. I think i think this was a candidate taken by you. I don't remember where. Or when. But i'm pretty sure it was It was around end. Twenty fourteen beginning at twenty fifteen but an excellent year. it was It was a rough year. You're looking into the heart and soul of a man. That was heartbroken a lot of pain there. I could see that. I can convey the pain. Oh fuck this is great. I'm having a great time. Not all of these are of you. Some of them are like you were. You're there for them and their time in our lives next. Oh ooh now vis this is prime those gang signs and everything baby. So i don't. I'll be honest with you. At the time and i would say even. I don't really know what i'm doing weed. I'm pretty sure that's like albani. Ah i'm yeah i'm throwing up. W which is normally commonly associated with the west side west side. We live on the east coast. We live on the east coast. Although on the east side of town we could not be more east. We're not around the west side of our town. Yeah there's water right next to us and it's called the east river. yes so Is it yeah river. Oh i was saying like right next to laguardia. That's like the bay and the ocean. That i don't know different different but you're wearing my green astros hat that didn't fit me. It didn't fit me. You could have fit my whole self. In there i well. So that's not like tilted that was put on your head normal and it just fell right. I'm not going for a ti kind of know. Oh how does he do it. It's got to be some sort of tape. It's gotta be right away him. His wife got some crazy allegations right now. Wow what's going that. They were like they were having sex. And some of it wasn't consensual rugs and oh no. That's not good. Yeah that's probably why he's out of ant man. He was in ant man. Three he was man wanted to. Now he's out of ant man three happens tip. Don't call yourself tip by the way guys unless you wanna make fun of. But he has a lot of guns he has gone. He has money. He's got he's got money. Okay so that if you got guns and money you can call yourself. Whatever you want tip. Yeah lip still going to need some consent. Otherwise you're going to do with that jail. Oh yeah then you're going to be getting the tip in fucking jail right We thought we were like i fence go. We weren't like this like this was a joke. No to an extent like we weren't like throwing up gang signs. Were like when you would talk with us. We'd be like yo. It's up like normal but like when we were like it was like well come to dub dub black. Yeah yeah yeah. With the boys boys boys living with boys block on the block in decreed decribe bat. Cave was on my. That was my phone number and my my house phone number in my phone. Your house phone number was the vacuum not the bat cave dubbed bat cave. Gotcha the very important. So that would make you. D batman. Batman was i. You're probably robin. Yeah okay but yeah. I remember this picture because this again chelsea. Hawkin it up. Yeah i was wearing scarface boxers. That said the world is yours around the the elastic crazy part about that is that it wasn't just the world never was mine and it never will be baby. Did you have any of those. Like graphic boxers. I remember one of my first pair of boxers. I the switch from tidy lights. Two boxers. I thought i was so fucking cool and hindsight And they were just Four clovers and it's and it said feeling lucky. Oh yeah and. I wore them to the bone like i killed them. They had reps dude. I still have some boxers from when i was in fucking sixth grade. I still have my looney toon boxers. They're like they're in my drawer. I'll never get rid of them because bomb my issue obviously collectibles they are. I mean. think about the balls that dropped those eventually doubles dough balls onto block with two boys in decree toback cave honestly. Well yeah This was this. This was this was quite this quite time unreal. We like what was it like. Did you have any cause you wore like pretty much like just like fucking tommy hilfiger sweatshirts and just baggy sweats. Yeah i like i said. I don't think i wore jeans and fourteen. And then. When i started wearing jeans they were big old jeans. Baby jeans big jeans ever levin looking jeans yeah never warning chains like on my pants or where chains. Yeah well. I did go through a phase where i wore some would rosary beads. Did you for like a hot. We you were big fan of those fucking silicone bands. You know how fucking badly. I wanted my hands on one of those braces. They said iheart bubis. I had one and let me tell you they were just as stupid as you would know. They were will there about like breast cancer. Which that's cool. Yay not breast cancer is not cool but like warning and the it and research. That's the cool thing. Right and movies are cool bubis. Yeah pretty pretty critical. You had i remember. You had like lip strong one and then like a sleep. Walkers one had one that was wooden and had some like a religious figures. Yup yup. yup. I remember those. And i just i couldn't even tell you what i had the chains i had my girlfriend got me dog tags for our for my birthday right. Because you're you're. I'm a fucking a soldier. Yeah your soldier. I'm a soldier for her. Okay i think it was around that time that song. That doesn't child's came song came out. I need a soldier and she wanted you to be this old. I was the soldier for her. You know i think that's also a tip perish song. I believe there was little wayne where you got it. I'm the hottest around i think. That's i'm assuming that's what's the what's the lane one. I think he's alive or maybe i don't whatever yeah good good times next one so this. This is the first time. I grow my hair. That was a log that had been at that point in my life. How did it get so straight so straightened. It got it. You'd look like andrew chi that's we were like in third grade with. How did i remember last. I don't know but someone what has happened. They told me that. I looked like you ever see that picture of the cat with a hollowed out lime unattended. Fuck all i do know what. You're a very soft helmet. It was very surprisingly shocked because my hair naturally is very curly. This this just this feels british. This could see that just feels british like right before that picture. I was like deby's is coming like a psych ward. Like what are we. What are we in no. I was in a bathroom. Yeah i know that. It was my friends when i lived at college. I was in my gra- grad school again. Okay because yeah. That doesn't look like anywhere. That's a very poorly decorated bathroom. You could say that again. It did look like it was very white. I'll say that just as all scary things in this world arm white you there. There's one year where you begged for this for your birthday. I did i did. I did because i had. Frankie hit this picture from me for so long wall would do you blame me because it's a it's a relic and it needs to be in in a in a museum by the way. How do you say that word museum museum new museum. No you don't. I do i say museum. No you fucking. I'm just said museum did. Yeah i said it's you. Do you speak differently to other fucking people know purposely pronounced the correctly to you but i say like museum museum. Seattle say museum. How do you say the stuff you drink in the morning. What the fuck is that like. it's hot and you put coffee coffee coffee with the fucked zamudio on maybe okay. This is also very heartbroken person. You're seeing right here really because it looks like you're living it up. You know. I was pretty happy. Yeah it looks like you're really having a good and the saddest part is always very sober in this picture. Yeah you would you. You should grow your hair out. Yeah one second more combat would about it. What's that guy's name. There's a lot of the main guy in the movie king. Yeah i kind of if i was leukaemia crush it animality. It'd be fired. You don't know what i'm talking about. Don't even pretend you said animality. Yeah you don't know what that is. You're dumb bitch or is it bestiality. No that's something different. That's a fucking forces dogs. yeah not just. Dogs is any anything in the animal. Animal go ahead what the humans are in the animal kingdom. So ever tell you. I saw someone suck off dolphin. Once i have randomly on the dome was it was an asian woman. Oh that's i feel like. I wanna be like yeah tone. I don't wanna be racist or anything. But i just want to say the japanese. They do some stuff on the internet and one on one of them. One of them is sucking off dolphins. Because i did see. I didn't even know. Dolphins at penises up until that point i mean they're mammals got but i feel like they're hard to find and then also you have to get one point to a dolphins penis. Joey but what are you gonna. Do you gonna get the dolphin either way. The dolphin up point there it the dolphin pick up office. It's a big fish. It's it is a big fit and they're smart. They know what you do. Dale know if you've ever seen stop don't touch me there. This is my private square. Like they're they know to leave them alone. Did you just do stop. Did you learn that in college. Did nice all right next picture. Okay remember the time you remember this. I do remember. Frankie hit me up. And he's like yo. I'm going to be on tv. Do you wanna come. I thought i was going to be on tv. And i actively chose to wear suspenders for the occasion. Yeah so this is back. This might have been like our de frank disrupt. Yeah this was this was. Yeah yeah it was which would explain this suspension spenders. Yeah and the glosses. Yeah i you got the hair flip so close to still being a douche right. Don't look terrible there you good. I mean you're making me look tiny though. Because you're you're you're small boy. I don't think you realize like you look big and masculine and hot but next to me it shrinks you down you know but We went to so a friend of mine from college. She's like do you want be on the game show. It's not like you go. Mike get selected and you can win like shit. And i was like that was actually when i learned how they do the tv stuff. Do you remember all right. So it was called best time ever with neil patrick hair. It was a live show to very live first of all canceled. Yes gone after like four episodes got out baldwin and nicole ensures your She nicole alec baldwin was the host. Yeah no he was like the guest host the guest announcer or whatever n. p. h. was the. Npa was up there. Do you remember like be mean. He was like kind of mean inbetween takes. I don't remember that they would go to like commercial break and it would stop it. He'd be like ride. He didn't have a deep voice like that but like he would like bark orders at people. i get. it's a very hectic area. But one of the reasons that i like this show. Put me off to like hollywood and like so much. Do you remember when we were in that room and they were like everyone. Say something interesting about yourself dude. That was the best time at all. Let me just tell them my point of view so funny so they they take the people that are possibly going to be picked to be put on the show and they put them in a room beforehand. You can like an two hours before showtime and filming a story so it was easy for us right so we we went and they put all the guests so me and all the other people that were coming with the people who are actually gonna show on one side and then all the people who were possibly gonna be in the show on the other side and then going up and down the rows and being like stand up and say something about yourself mind you. They only put the most like bubbly and outgoing in on tv. And that's why when you watch. The price is right. You get someone up there on. Check this person's a psycho so everyone knows that going into this. I assume it seemed like he was like everyone at twenty tile. This everyone knew it but Exactly what the person that wanted to get picked win money and it was. It was so funny because they'd be like are tell something about yourself and one was like high agatha. I speak three languages and my husband is a mailman. And then all the people around know that they're being filmed and taped the whole time. So they're like. Oh who like. It was fucking insanely kept looking at each other. Like what the fuck. You're in the wrong place. What i don't even remember what my interesting fact was. I can tell you this okay. I know that there was a legitimate trend of people saying they speak certain languages and then you stood up and the first thing you said was hi. I'm frank i'm only speaking. I don't speak seven languages and then you said something else. I don't know what the fact was but it was just like whatever the fuck it was but it was at least high. Yeah betsy yeah it's like it's a stay at home wife. I had four. Yeah like the light of my life with driving me. Co-coping fucking grow. And this is. I remember saying to myself like damn that was visible. And someone said like yo. That's what every fucking waking minute is in hollywood like if you live in los angeles you'll be all right at a restaurant like can i get the caesar salad. Oh you want the caesar salad. Well let me tell you. There's no world. Caesar on a pantley take shit on that person. It was exhau-. And then at the taping i remember had like a like a fucking role of the pictures of people that were get picked for the and say and mine was the one right before they got picked off and the trivia. I would swept this shit because it was like named four members of the beatles and the person that there was like. 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We were miami. This was what twenty twelve yet. This was yet judah. Twenty right before i turned twenty one. Looks like a he was. Yeah the funds fons first of all he is. No i kid. You not like ninety pounds lighter here. He's he's like one hundred ten soaking wet here. he probably benched. I would say eighteen pounds in this picture. And then now benches. I think one hundred million pounds so like a mansion someone just like blew him up just took him and just. Hey and what are you doing. Do you not realize that this is the internet. And you can't just do that. do you. Not realize because it's going to be embarrassed anyway. He's gonna hit me up. He'd be like but do you remember what he was drinking what he was drinking. Do you remember. I remember this as clear as day because something specific. Yeah it was fucking disgusting. It was pink lemonade brunettes. Oh yeah yeah oh disgusting. There was a there was a There was a liquor store like a block away from this place of. You're staying out of miami and we would go to every single day and we would buy these things like this vodka per was if it was yeah vodka and we would just crush them every night. I don't know i no not me. I was drinking beer. And the only thing that i got that i wanted a drink was jamison and even what happened to that bottle jason. Eric tried to pop it. As if it was champagne he tr- put us the popped. It put his on shook it as if there was some sort of carbonation in there. It's just whiskey whisky so yeah but this is a good trip. It was a fun time a lot of memories from that. But hey josh stocks that maybe next look. Wow look at that so i look pretty good that you you fucking surprise. You look hot. Still pretty baggy jeans. Though they were big for out say until maybe five years ago. They pretty big. What's going on with danny as my cross danny and one or two got a couple. I can't tell you how many pictures i have of danny with that exact same face. Probably thousand He loved to face the saint francis. Prep football yeah. You're a football star baby now. I wasn't. I know i didn't want to say it. Also also how do you think we are in this picture. I can tell you exactly how old we are given context clues okay. Let's go with this. Cut out picture stickers of baseball players on your wall. What is this Drinking forties suggests we are. I wanna say this to bag in these days however old we were which wasn't twenty one. Nope i think every weekend we would go to your house and drink forties. Yeah and that's where the you know. The the bad habits star. Yeah so this con contrary to what you could see in the picture. This isn't a prison conjugal room my bedroom. That was my bedroom which was painted prison floor. Gray yes that is that is janitor. Closet gray janitor caused greg and Yeah those are That's two thousand and ten. I think it's like january or february. Two thousand ten. Oh so then. I was like freshly eighteen or nineteen. Yes so all those pictures. That thing that yankee thing was It was like a collectible thing that my mom got And it was like every newspaper clipping of the yankees world series and they had just won in two thousand nine also so as an you know a teenager. I had fat heads on my wall of the yankees because yes it was. You know And then we were crushing forties. Maybe that was beer. Tasted better in a forty. If you ask me yes especially when your hands are duct tape to it. Yes frankie wanted to play. Edward forty hands fund gain every week. Which if you don't know the rules you tape to forty to your hands so you don't have the ability to do anything with your hands but drink but drink and you're not allowed to be you have one hour to finish the beers and you win. How much is a forty two. And a half years ism well regular beers twelve. So it's three and a half or three and a quarter of beers like three in the third but yeah yeah so tons up to. That's over seven beers in an hour. Baby i think if i drank a forty straight up like in half hour my ass would just fuck. I couldn't do it now my ass. Which is what we should do it. Well we should do. Edward forty coming over on friday have forties there. I swear to god. I'm gonna die laughing. I'm first of all. I don't think they sell forty s in the state of new jersey walking forward if you bring forties. That'll be incredible. I'm not going to drink to forties duck tape into my hands. But i'll bigger you go home. Mom would bring a forty offering you meeting my daughter with just forty two. You're you're going to be holding the baby in the forties. It's going to be great. Yeah but this is what we used to do. Oh look see. That is a religious. So what i'm wearing around. My neck is is a rope a crucifix. That's made out of wood. Getting of the end. Where did you get that. And where is it gone. Got that in high school. They gave it to us for something. And i don't know where it is. But i remember really liking it at the time. You can't throw out religious stuff because that's when you go with the hell. I i can't tell you how many times i've done that but like because like i'm not really like when someone gives me a car like birthday card is very nice and as soon as you look away. Throw it away really really. What am i going hundreds of birthday cards. I the one thing i don't throw out is when you go to funerals and you get those cards like. Oh yeah. I have a bunch of those those i tell you the ordinate amount of those though. I'll take like seventeen and just just you know for a lot of days but this is a good time. So patch frank. Also very justice soul patch. That's not a soul patch. That's a that's just a beard like a dirt a look. I got dragged through a pile of shit. You still have that spiderman shirt. I know you don't. it's so fun. Fact got spiderman shirt from old navy was a and liked it bought. It forgot that it was a choice shirt. So that's a child double xl Guess what nowhere near fitting me now. That's a big child also. yeah well. that's go double x. right okay next. Wow look that. So that's four. Four boys fourteen boys and a kiddie pool. Yeah that's me. You ambient david. Yeah that's that's not the abomination from the hulk movies. That's david that's not the monster from fucking pan's labyrinth. I didn't know ribcages. Go all the way around yeah. I don't think your bones are supposed to be that out. God i love david. Haven't seen in a long. The i've surprised when you're able to fit in that poll i because david's body is basically like one of those toys where you press the bottom and it falls apart. I don't know toys like it's like a statue. it looks like. Oh yeah yeah yeah. Yeah yeah yeah yeah. My mom's patio. Yup that's a dog pool Very hot day so he just wanted to get in the pool and guess what you also had a pool. I did you pull that pretty sure. This was taken with a laptop as well was one hundred percents eight when a laptop. And i'll tell you. I remember because there's an accompanying video of me and david underneath the deck dancing to it's raining men. I remember that and then you pouring water on us. Yes yeah holy shit. How do you remember i. Because i have it. So they were below and pour the water from this pool and it was raining and it was like bad bang so we were always questionable. Well that's not what i was gonna say. I was going to say that we were always creating content. You know this to be funny. Manfried youtube joe. Yeah host forty eight hundred files so this right here is the dawn of a new day. It is it is it. Is you know you don't even realize it. You see those feet in the corner there my feet. Those are earning money nowadays. I don't know how maybe all right next up. So this isn't you obviously. Where is this This this is in a las vegas again. This isn't kind of have a acidic jewish haircut. Well it was had the long hair. Yeah and it. And it was in a pony tail and sideburn curl and it came out of the ponytail. Yeah yeah A set of fat cheeks behind you there too. I don't know. I honestly it looks like one of our. I can tell you exactly who that is in those blue. Those blue shorts wait. Where's this this is vegas was i at this one. Yes that's why i included you. Were there joey. Oh now is that boss in the all the way back in the old yeah But this is when we went to daylight pool party. Oh yeah you got the personal pool. Yeah so we went so fucking love. I can't go against the las vegas my body literally. I won't last time. My body was like dude. We really got there and you were instantly upset. Yeah i was. I was not good and i think this was the last time we went and joey. We went to a pool party. We still so. This is mid blink. I'm not like super drunk. Were fucked. I remember because you are fucked when i got there. I thought i was joking. I was afraid we so we went together and all of our friends are like now. We don't want to go. it was like me. You like four other people and then some people were like y'all. We're gonna stay. We're going to play roulette like some people are going to go to a poker tournament and then we get there and this guy comes up to. You is like joe. It was a thursday. It was pretty dead at the time. Well yeah he knew who i was like. Yo i know who you are. You make fucking awesome videos. They're funny here. Here's five free drink tickets. Yeah and we were like cool. You know that's great. And joey being the kind and courteous person was handed the out as the people that were there and then he goes joe. It's pretty dead today. Do you want a cabana and with a personal pool you just fucked up and we went and we got just bottles of their cheapest vodka through in like two bottles for free maybe as a day. This is vodka frank frank. Don't drink vodka as you can tell but it was a good time it was. That was a good day. I remember that was a day for you and then my day was the following day. Was the saturday her. You're another man different person. So i listened to what i go back to vegas. Yes but i wouldn't group. I wouldn't go with. We would like fucking seventeen people. I would just want to go with a group where there's at least two other people that enjoy rest because our friends know so i enjoy rest. You enjoy danny sergeant. Lieutenant sleep elite. Philip tenant danny wholesome to sleep police dude if he would come into your room if you if you linked to slow he could sleep. Sleep fall asleep him. Oh my god. It was so bad. But i would go. I would go back with you. I go back with josh. Josh is a good time. Yeah joshua's fun. Josh is a wild to just like you are. You guys are wildcard. No no sometimes josh day. There's times you josh off love. i'd go back. Yeah go back friends. Yeah yeah you'd be a good time but we'll see. I still got big four five. I went five times. Yeah so why wouldn't four booked five and then go ahead to just eat the things to a wedding But anyway next okay where the fuck oh you remember that. This legends legends bar. So you could see also directly into my nostrils. Yeah i can see your brain at this point. Yeah i'm pretty sure you could see later in life these fucking people so it was. It was lsu lsu bama game. I'm pretty sure seed in the background this. Lsu ma'am. it was saturday november eight asset. This was like twenty fourteen fifteen. Maybe i think it was two thousand fourteen. Yeah and do you remember that kid. No he was like joe. My dad like ransom department at fucking. Lsu come down and like he was in a fraternity or some shit and he was like like go down and spend a week in there. You remember that. And he is probably all over that to mean probably at the time but then also they were. Maybe not these two people other people in that bar day had dat. Oh there was a lot of cocaine coke was flying to coke was sniffling and you guys loved this fucking bar. I disliked going because like you would watch college football on saturdays. If there's an lsu game on people will go insane like they would have like horns going off all the shipping our semi ever heard of a bar being themed after like a team or also seen. I'd never heard about it before that. Dude there's tons. There's there's florida. Bar's there's pama bars and joe i had never known and i remember i. This is the only time. I'd went lot of debt on it. That place was huge and this was the night that member someone started a fake trend on twitter. That macaulay culkin died. And we all like bought beers. And we're like yeah. We got to pour it out from her colleague culkin though i think i have on my could somewhere. It was tagging picture on instagram and it was like r.i.p. Macaulay culkin and all of us was just beers. What fucking idiots. You were big time. Snapback guy to back then. I was snapping. sohar snapback. Surprised with the money that you still for me that you don't have more hats hat do you. Just you invested your money into putting your name on shirts that you make me wear. These people are doing well. I'd like to know that guy in with the is. Yeah i believe actually. That's chris martin of coldplay. So it's very him all right. Let's get to this next picture here. There's not many left to do you remember this. that's boss. maybe this was What was it called central bar. Oh in the lower east yes and we had a friend that was wild night. We had a friend. There was a party of like just a bunch of like super cool fucking asian guys that were there and one of our belly to their table. Oh yeah i remember that. And then had him on his back at one point and then i had to use no names here. Here's the thing right. Our friends there for the most part. They're good people but sometimes well not anymore because everyone's super tame now but back in the day these days we go to a bar and it was like this is too many people in this is going to get out of hand. If something's going to happen literally. I think in the first like nine minutes of us being at this bar. Our friend jumped on these guys table. This looking like why does he still eat flop bellyflop on their table like bang. Yeah no reason online. God it was. It was a fight almost broke out now but some other people i think and i remember this was one of our friends who at the time wasn't really a friend but it's come to be a better friend now had broken up with a longtime yes and then went fucking a wall at night and i had to pull them out physically at a lie. Them lied to them about our friend getting jumped to get them out of a strip club. Remember that i do. It was a good time is a good time. It was a good time. this is i've just. I've always liked this picture because that's pure happiness just to just two boys just real happy. Yeah honestly yeah it looks like your head's not really connected. That looks like as if it was my body photoshop. Photoshop your head on. Yeah yeah i mean doing something but that guy. I hope that guys doing really hope. He's having a great old time. Because you have this magic. Yeah exactly all right two more left. I think i got teabag. Why does this this. I was sick like in the head. Yes obviously but also physically. We're gonna talk about the chinstrap or we're going to ignore it. We have to. You can't ignore it. it's a little thick. It was as big as it could get at that point in my life. Yeah it does. Look a little dusty. It was my freshman year of college. So that's where you see the weight starting to come out well. There's not a whole lot of weight. I it was. It was a bruin. Yeah i'm sure it was There was a lot of calories being consumed by like a bathroom and throw in beers back. I used to get forties of this malt liquor called cobra cobra. It was fucking dangerous. Did it have debt in there. A might've done had it. Yeah four locos debt you. I put one of the four local pictures in here by. Didn't which one the one it's it's just the fireplace engulfing the in neighboring area gotcha. Yeah that was a night that seriously was there was also like. That's one of the drunk est. I've ever been but not fun drunk yet. That was like i was scared. Yeah because i had just fought josh on the dog Funny how full circle like our most dangerous drunk night. Was us three josh again. Maybe josh the phones he's here for this. Josh was on the phone on the dock. And i walked. Who you're talking to. And then he just socked me in the eye fucking toss them. You hired him years later. Just turn around and socked me in the face. And i was like the fuck so i started fighting josh and then after that was done you through a can or someone through into a fire and because frankie was super drunken he thought i could just pull this out of the fire so he stuck his hand into a fire and pulled out a can. That was probably at eight thousand degrees at that point police. At least twenty yeah and then you also threw cardboard on it which then caused a fire fire. Which then you remember how we put out. I pissed on repeat on it. I pissed on it. Yes yes yes. It was a good night and also spo two locos and then couldn't get out of his chair i. He sat there for four hours straight chair. Dudes that share you love. And this is pre recall for logo pre call. Yeah which there was a study that came out. That was like those four locos were the equivalent of their words. Small mountain of cocaine fire. Yeah i was like all right all right. Well now we know one time. I drank two four logos on a party bus. That had like those like lights like the green like the neon lights too. I thought it was like in spain like it was just like tariff. I thought is in space. Yeah pull over and let me just not fun but this was. This was around that time. And i don't know why. Put the tea bag in there. You're just a funny guy. You know honestly comes full circle because you're a big boy now. I love t yeah. Don't drink coffee boy. A big herbal tea right all kinds of a spot over here. Where there's on the queen's room. I don't know what it's called. There's one small spot like and they sell t it's not like i'm saying loose-leaf why do you say it like that. Loose leaf alec loosely. not loosely. Loose leaf do you buy loose-leaf i haven't wrote on loose leaf in how many how long years eight but yeah. They got a herbal tea spot over year. Spot even make money too. You don't realize a lot of people are fucking super entity you here. we go. joe is going to read about it and then get super not and tell me. Have you ever drank tea. I'm gonna come here and you're going to have a fucking cabinet ful. No no T the other day. But i think about this logically. Like a t. spot Right tease cheap. You how much does it. He you i mean. A cup of tea could be cheaper teasing. They're expensive oh. She assured like a cup of tea is like a dollar eighty nine so with the rents around here. How do you make enough money with this. T oh yeah. That's a good. That's i don't know how any business realistically survives around here. I mean foods. One thing you could make you by burger or something like twenty fucking box or something you're like okay and it costs like three dollars to make that but t i dunno. I dunno around here. It's crazy crazy all right last one. Yes dan that was a fucking good costume for you. I won a full on. Won a contest for a bar tab right so there's red in my face. It's not just black. All this looks bad. Didn't think about until right man. Yeah your face. And that was yeah. So that's that's not by sleep does not black. You could see the red on my cheek. Your were meant to look like to face a fucked up like it was red. And it was like supposedly. It's red and burgundy. But what the fuck are you so i actually remember this night clearly because you first of all. My arm is just small. What is that but push up. Will ya i remember. You are super psyched about your costumed. Because like i'm going to be to face in like whatever and you were like. Yeah let's go out to a bar. And i at that point had no plans. I think this was halloween night. Like legit pollyanna yes. It was going out on halloween halloween night. So then i was like damn. I need a costume. Because you were like. It's a costume thing. We might have been underage year. We definitely were underage. So that's how. I needed a costume off. I use a fake. We were definitely underage here. Also davino that was my fake. I would use his our use his fucking license. So i don't know how we both got in there but so i just had that gray wig from like youtube videos and i put on glasses in a wife beater and then i put on jeans and i was like. Yeah so this was my favorite bar closed down. I love that place. Those boneless buffalo bites penis. Tell me they're not they're good. Yeah but they had a costume contest. And i went in and it was like five hundred dollars like two hundred dollars bar. Tab was a two hundred dollars bar tab. So i went and ran up a bar tab. Yeah and fully prayed to fucking win this. Because i was broke. Yeah broke time. Yeah and and. I ended up winning. I remember keith was drunk. Keith was next to me so he was whispering in my ear and usually he likes to whisper into people's mouths strong when he was doing the math in real time. Next to me on how many shots could buy with this two hundred dollars bar tab guy toys. So shot is seventy dollars fifty cents. You can buy one to four twenty you can buy like twelve. No did more like he was like on more debt. He's doing math in my ear. But i pulled this up. Because i was like what the fuck is joey dressed as. Yeah i was just like a. I said i was going to be like a redneck or something. Yeah and dino obviously is a child predator right right right right right right. He was freddy krueger. But i remember this might man. Do you remember one time we were there and you ordered sliders. That had a ds on it and some drunk girl comes over. She goes I dick sucker. Don't remember that. Oh oh my god maybe not you. But y'all i remember specifically someone got sliders and there was like a ds. i remember. They burned games. I had i had ordered sliders from them many times because the places dittmar station. And you guys you guys size dick sucker. What i just say your dick sucker. She knew wasn't mine wasn't mine. So i was on her side. I was like oh yeah. He made that place was fucking awesome. One didn't card to we like made friends with the owners so like they would be like. These people freed drank like a lot there. Yeah and it. Was you know what it was. It was like a cool place because the music was never too loud but it was loud enough that you couldn't hear everyone else and it was like booths very comfortable to like joe. Just like have a beer. Yeah but their tv situation was great. Yeah i remember. That bathroom situation was also really cool but it was also very jurors. It was like two flights of stairs to get their time. danger baby. Yeah it was rough. It was rough. But that's it those good memories you need. You need to pull up some old ones for another one. I yeah i could find some. I'll find some good ones. I'm afraid yeah. I'm afraid to but that's it. Yeah these are. These are great. It's a video. What say recording because i was recording the screen. Oh we are we are. it's been some. it's been some time that was the last decade right there. Yeah i could find some pretty good ones should you. Should you should but before we go i do need to let people know about the movie. Trish motown let them know baby. You can go to youtube dot com slash schmo down. What's the movie theresa. Guess what is the premier the best the pinnacle of movie trivia league competitive. It's competitive too in the world and a lotta movie trivia and a flair got storylines. We got shit we got going on. It's like a little bit of wwe and their to baby and you're definitely gonna want to see because your boy. The animal frank hours competing and on march eleventh. I got my debut match. Debut match against brother loehmann's brother alone but you can't hide no more. No more keyboard warrior brother. You gotta face me on march eleventh. And i'm coming for you mike. I'm coming for you baby. You better bring the heat. Because i am. Wow that's it what's your socials o. F. how five on twitter and on twitter trump video games me be frank on instagram. Thanks for being patrons we love it. Yes shout out to the patrons patriot fan and go fall show at the baseman yard on tiktok on on instagram. And that is all lucy. You guys next time.

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65: More Game of Thrones, Sentient Planets, and the Roswell McDonalds

Night Call

49:08 min | 2 years ago

65: More Game of Thrones, Sentient Planets, and the Roswell McDonalds

"You must love drag queens. Right. I mean, you're alive and breathing and it's twenty nineteen. So chances are pretty good. And if you love drag queens, you must really love rupaul drag race, the center of the drag universe and the best damn reality show on television. And if you really love repulse drag race, which we've already established you do then you're going to lose your freaking mind for race chaser with Alaska and William the smash hit podcast from forever dog hosted by two of the drag world's most iconic stars Alaska thunder fuck five thousand and William each week, Alaska and William come together to discuss dissect and disseminate classic and current episodes of rupaul drag race. It's a recap show shirt. But it's also so much more than that Alaska and William have unfettered access to all the contestants from the show's history. Special guest queens pop in and out of the studio, they call and text other queens to find out what really happened on the show, and they have an insider's point of view on. How the show is made each episode is packed with Intel Honey behind the scenes rumors can. Lecture gossip and more tea than you can handle Alaska and William bring their very own charisma, uniqueness nerve and talents to give you oral pleasure. Every Wednesday on race chaser. So subscribe now just search for race chaser with Alaska and William anywhere. You get your podcasts. It's eleven fifty seven PM in Irwindale, California the renaissance fair, and you're listening tonight. Call. Oh. Tonight. Call in podcast for your brand days and friendly nights. My name's Molly. And I'm here in Los Angeles with Tess Lynch and over a New York, we have as always a Malir Shida, Molly you make game thrones references without even meaning to there's a character called Ren Lee Barath, Ian in seasons one and two of game of thrones your super superfan. It's amazing friend of nightfall starlet kind kept telling me when we went to the run fair together with other friend of Nicole. Jane, Marie on star studied podcast team was like a real. That's like a a meet up of the ages. It's a convention an invention a coven of podcasters, we enjoyed a fried artichoke and baked potato many many festivities were had and like an old world. Just like olden times. It was great. But starry is a big game of thrones fan as we discussed last week. And this time she kept pointing at people and going. Oh, hey, do you like that? I'd be like, yeah. Yeah. That's cute. She then you like game of thrones. That's game of thrones. You like it. It's a compelling argument. It was great. She like pointed as like a girl who was probably like aria addresses our air or something. And she was like, hey like that outfit. I was. 'cause pay. Boom. You're huge game of thrones fan. She got me. I went to the Ren faire. You're halfway there. Do you love you love mediaeval times? Well, you know, like the like, the juxtaposition also of Calica and. Yeah, and stuff there's a lot of people just like wearing sublime shirts at the ran rare. Yeah. There's like a combo people so dressed up and people just wearing a raiders implem-. Like, they do every day. And that's what I love about it. It's beautiful to me. And casual and they have those coast casually. There's no dress code unfair. And they have those things where there's like a bubble that a kid can run around and the hamster ball type. On water could change the lake. Starry had an inquiry for Milady. Yes. We definitely wanna hear Starr Elise. Call and this night call and in general, we are going to take a bunch of night calls today because it's been a second. We know got a backlog of calls we to get to. So we're gonna have regular call this this week speaking of which if you would like to call please give us a call about all things night related at two zero four six night or at night, call podcast gmaiLcom because we're going to try to start taking more calls and emails, and we'd love to hear from you. And you should check out our brand new patriot. Oh, yes. Now exists we've launched today as of this recording. But it will be a week from today when you hear this, and we will have all ascended to the next plane. Thank you to everybody who has already subscribed. Just within the first twenty four hours here. It's moved us. All immensely were. So. Grateful to all of you if you'd like to check out our patriot support it is patriot dot com forward slash night. Call also, we we really have to think shea Serano grand alum shea Serano who boasted are patriots to the point of like, I almost cried and feel weird admitting that, but it was it was really it was so nice of him. And yeah, we're we're really touched by all the support. And we have some cool stuff at the tears to give you if you support our podcast, so please do including a book club. Yeah. And some mixed. And we put out a little video that you can see that. I'm Emily did a great job on amazing job. We would love forever to check it out. And check out our patriot. And now onto the night calls. All right. This is a night. Call from starlet, technically, it is a night recording a night field recording that we did in the car on the way home from the Ren faire. While we were still talking about game of thrones. Here it is. I have a question for night. Call her Emily since Molly doesn't watch game of thrones. Even though she'd love it. My question. Emily is who are you personally rooting? I think it's I assuming that you want both these people to die. But who do you want to die more, John donne, snow or Cleese? Cleese Emily who who are you rooting for to die? First of all, I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm gonna stall for second hair. Keep everybody in suspense. So and this is with with all of the love in my heart. I watched the last season of game of thrones with the one and only surly kind. I would bring over a bottle of wine to her apartment, and I feel like most of it would be drunk by the time the episode started, and it was really fun. And usually I watch the show by myself. So it was it was fun to have somebody to yell at the TV with then as the season was coming up. I went back, and I was you know, just trying to brush up like remember where we were. And I started to watch the last season before this which was really short. It was like seven episodes or something I did not remember most of the stuff that happened in that season all the rest of the seasons. I think I had watched the episodes at least twice because I was writing about them. So I'd have to go back and see what happened. But I do feel like I miss Darley this time around we became game of thrones buddies. So so I appreciate this question. In more ways than one thinks star Lee makes a strong argument just for watching game of thrones with star Lee. Yeah. Yeah. He's like the most opinionated person to watch the show with. It's it's real fun. She's got takes usually. Yes, she takes. And I like to argue with people whose opinions are like not mine we podcast, but my conversation is fun. So, hey, Donny love it. She's setting you up in some to. She know what you are going to answer. This question already. I don't think she does. But I mean, I don't know if the answer is what she thinks it's going to be. I mean, if I had to pick, and I don't think either of these people are going to die. But if one person is it's probably going to be drawn snow, and I wanted Rachel just looked at me in the most like incriminating. Well, let's just like how to be clear that he has already died and been out back. Yeah. It's a long way he ghosts. No. The Lord of light brought him back because it was foretold that he would, you know, necessarily to be funny host wins the game of thrones. He's not a go. If a ghost word win, the game of thrones doesn't count or do you get like a mulligan? He's not a goes movies Brokeback from the dead. He's Zambia case. Well, there are there are several people who have been brought back till I guess by the Lord of light. And they are kind of like. You're telling me people can die on the show and be brought back immediately. Rear favors, cool show. It's extremely like specific circumstances. Well, like Dan said last week, it's really rare for there to be this kind of magic. But it does happen. But when it happens, it's like to be jerked around by show into thinking that your beloved characters of died, and then a wizard goes, boop. And they're like, oh, they're alive again Harrington. So we meet a lesser character more minor character who's had this happened him before he meet, John snow. So it's not like, we didn't know this could happen. We just knew it was because it has been said I'm gonna answer. Like, I'm heard of you know, I'm here to answer star Elise. I'm going to answer. Charlie's question. I want all of them to die. Cool. Great. All men must die. Yeah. He loved game of thrones. I all the time. All men must die a good volume more Hulas. Yeah. In in the spirit of that. Like, I hope the Jon snow dies. I more than Khalidi. Yeah. I mean, I think it may. Less sense. Like, I don't think it would be very satisfying for Kalisa to die. I feel like the rug is going to be pulled out of her in some way or another. I don't know if that necessarily mean she's going to die. Maybe they're gonna pull that bad rug off her head finally can be like, wow, we have an expensive budget, but the Whigs on show or so bad and unbelievable. The roast master has arrived tasks you're also the row the game of. Warf the roasts more of the roasts neck. Oh would love to host euros. Please higher. I called. Oh. Yeah. Rose hosts where it'd be like the friendliest gentlest forget people have. We we just SU Vida. Warm back. Hus Molly ties, you're also a game of thrones fan. D you have a feeling about this. Who would I whom who would I prefer to die? Jon snow ordinary. Tar garin. Yes. I would prefer John snow to die. Because a he already has and be I. Yeah. I think that like I the only person who saw last night's episode which is now to in the past. If you're listening to this. I feel like I have not been wowed by John, snow's charisma. A while. I'm kind of over it never. I am a as we all know him deniro's fan last night. And this is not a spoiler. But let me just say that there's a scene where they're at a party and denarius is like sitting there looking at everyone. She super paranoid like everyone's gonna take me down. Everyone's talking about me really identified that need to keep her around for that reason. I know that feeling nearest like hit the Bong. And she's just like, I don't know seems like every Cates me here. Reasons. I saw that me about how Jon snow looks just like George Costanza. Yes. Cannot unsee a riveting joust a riveting joust. Indeed, I'm betting on brand brand. I mean, it's clear. You don't watch the show if you're bedding, but I watch veep. And I think veep is going to end with split being president, which is my dream. And I feel like you just always bet on like the person that nobody would bet on. Oh, you mean, you're betting on grand seems to know he's on the way out. Yeah. To win the game. I thought you were betting on. I was like what no third area. Unlike. Molly calls a game of thrones not even brand anymore. Molly. He he's a three eyed raven well brand here of the three eyed snake in nature. Let me know that bring was assigned three hundred gonna win the three eyed snake? Yeah. That is definitely the night. Call mascot of the month. We love it. Moving onto more creepy things. I believe we have an Email regarding Roswell. Yes, we have a somewhat belated but nonetheless, incredibly appreciated Email from Seneca who is a Roswell native while ago. We were asking if there is anybody that listen to our show who is Roswell resident or former resident or native, and yeah, we hear back from you Sonnia, and it was a great Email to get. So I'll just read it he night call pot. I am finally writing even though your first episode wrangled with its whatever time it was in Roswell New Mexico since then there's been a lot of Roswell chats. So I felt I had to write in as a native of the city sees town. I was born and grew up in Roswell and left when I went to college. But my family is still there. So I visit it really is such a small place fewer than fifty thousand people. So it was always really interesting to us. Has children when people come from all over to hang out with the aliens? I'm neither confirming nor denying that. They're still here. I remember our family took a trip to New York win, the Roswell show is at its peak and my sister, and I saw billboard of the show and just turned to each other and laughed the significance is only really hit me as I've lived outside for ten years. And it always starts cool conversations when people realize from their Roswell definitely caters to the tourism. There's a UFO McDonald's the lamp posts downtown alien heads and the main theater is called galaxy eight with a UFO esque front. There's also a UFO museum and people love taking picks of the Roswell city. Limit sign not to mention alien paraphernalia everywhere. And of course, the Afo crash site, which is a little north of the actual city though. I have to admit I've not visited it's a big deal. I appreciate it. And I'm sure Roswell New Mexico does to all send a postcard next time down there. Thank you so much any ah. This is great. I mean, this is sort of how I would imagine it like even the UFO McDonald's that like even the national and international chains will like catch Roswell fever, if they have an outpost there seems very appropriate. Had this made me wanna go to Roswell so bad a lot of things that made us want to go to your house. Well, to be honest, we send I called her else fall. I'm kind of jealous. I mean, I love LA. But like it could use that extra layer of like a weird event. That's not bad. Oh, we have too many weird events with. They're all about what about like a not a neutral weird event to add a layer. It's like a clarity of theme with Roswell. It's like, they're lots. Yes. Desperate LA, and it's all kind of competing for your attention. And you can like ride different wavelengths of of weird Ellie history to go down, and then places to get your picture taken or whatever. But like the fact that Roswell is just all about this one thing is. Yeah. Really pure. I feel. LA doesn't have a central theme or location. It. I feel like it does have like central seems there are few themes. I mean, we also we have some good ghosts ghosts very big fan of our goes, what if you're not what have you don't believe in Elliot's and you live in Roswell. I must be terrible. Not believe in lands. If you live in Roswell, but like, I don't know like not being the protagonist in your own life. No. I don't know just seize the opportunity, you don't think everybody just rebels against whatever town is serving them when they're young. No you yet to go along with it. Otherwise, you're you're out listeners if you live in Roswell New Mexico, and you don't feel like the protagonist of your own life night. Call what's you for? No matter where you live. If you don't feel like the protagonist idol feel like the protagonist. Much weirder starving. The protagonist in a long ties really unnerving when you start feeling. Bull cast the terrible, right? Nothing is better than a non samba movie. One of my theories about game of thrones. That I said to start that. I was like this is why I think game of thrones good is because I like any on samba show that tricks men into carrying about a bunch of female characters by ceding them with an equal number of male character. Which is I think all good on some shows the sopranos like every show, you're like ha you tricked men into like getting involved in the emotional lives of a teenage girl because they won't see what happens with dragons. Yeah. Yeah. So bully to you thrones. Yeah. Bullied. This does make me think about like like not be into the thing that your town or like where you grew up was about like, the feeling of Ilyushin that is very common for for growing up and even place. But when that's at like, if you grow up in a football town, for example, but you like hate football or you just really like, I don't know lacrosse and stuff. But like being being at odds with the thing that your your town is known for. I mean, the the UFO thing is such a strong idea like around that. But I do feel like probably a lot of LA kids grow up feeling really like alien aided from show business or or any of that probably as many kids who who grow up wanna just be actors directors or whatever to. But. Yeah, what about the people who live in Maine, but they're allergic to shellfish? That's terrible. That's worse that honestly because if you believe in Ilyas or not that doesn't affect your ability to appreciate like all the alien kids stuff that goes right in Roswell still better than being from Connecticut where the theme is repression freight get. Yeah. And if you can't do the thing like as I say so eloquently to have the good thing or it's good. Like, I like lobsters in Maine or something. If you can't do that that always feels like a bummer like if you're lactose intolerant. And you live in Wisconsin. For example, exactly. Exactly. Guys think we should take another night. Call this one I've been thinking about this one a lot. Okay. So this one comes from A, m hi Tess, Emily, and Molly, I'm listening tonight. Call sixty three the scary statistic. You cited about twenty two percent of companies using data on their employees movements reminded me that a temporary job. I had at Amena redact this in queens required me to submit biometric data at the start and end of every shift. Here's how it worked after signing my employment contract, a manager told me to stand against a wall in the store. I didn't know what was happening until she had me move my head up and down. And I realized a camera was reading my face we clocked in and out of shifts by putting our faces in front of a scanner and could only unlock slash log into our registers by touching a fingerprint scanner it didn't really matter that I hadn't given my permission to the store security slash surveillance team to collect data because I needed the job. But I still wish they'd offered me a chance to opt out. I'm certain it would never occur to the stores managers that this was a breach of privacy or that. There's any legitimate reason we wouldn't want our biometric information in a security database the scanner sometimes wouldn't work if I wore dark lipstick or took my coat and hat off. Do you? Remember seeing stories several years ago about makeup and hairstyles that could thwart facial recognition tech. I feel like I've been waiting for the anti-surveillance punk Luke to come in fashion since then obviously only temporary solution, but a fun one and wonder if it works. Thank you so much for this. Terrifying. Email I just want jump right in please say, but I just bought one of those face blocker things. Oh, what are they like a full face shade pictures of it? I worked to the run fare hike. It's like the visor that goes all the way down is like I did. I had no idea. What that was posted it visa Veon. Oh, Bianco Serlin. Yeah. Stress one. But they're also just pop. Yeah. It's like big like grandma look in LA like I'm into that will be is that your face is. Did you do it for fashion purposes, did it for sun purposes, those run fair, which isn't super sunny and also found when I've been thinking about getting one for a long time and then night, call friend Karina Longworth had one. And I was like, oh, I totally do on just do it. And then I was wearing it around. And it was like the most amazing feeling because people can't see your face. Yeah. It's incredible. You walk around seems implied. It's it's amazing so-so. Like if you're a woman, especially it's like, oh, men cannot see your face. They can't even see if you're smiling. Right. They like could see your body. But who cares? The kissy your face. It's amazing. I love it. But does does that inhibit your ability to like connect with people? Yes. That's what I point wearing it for a whole. Day kind of amazing because it's like you have this little like bubble around you. Yeah. Yeah. I was like vaping inside of it. I was very hot boxing your own head. But you sort of get a Darth Vader from talking under it voice. Yeah. Do you think it's healthy? Does it breathable? Like is there? Not your. Yeah. I mean, it's just a shade. So yeah. Geyser? It's not gonna key mask or like a or. Yeah. Like a fencing mask or something like that. Yeah. See mascot, also good look. No. And also Jane Marie was like some dudes might just be into that. That's true too horror just body, especially if I'm wearing it on like Star Wars day, and it's a little stormtrooper. But it is really fun do recommend it. If you're going to the beach or something check it out. I don't know how I feel walking around without my face in front of me. You know what? I mean. I I'm an over wear of sunglasses like I wear sunglasses on cloudy days. I started doing it because I squint in the sun, really badly and. It would like hurt my face all day. If I was like, I remember like on snowy days in Iowa. If I was like squinting all day than my face. You got a headache? Yeah. Yeah. So I started wearing sunglasses really obsessively like all the time. I can't leave the house without sunglasses, even if it's raining, and that I feel like affords enough freedom makes you look like an asshole which I also kind of like. I dunno. Nobody's going to really try to talk to you on the train. It's funny. I always I didn't wear sunglasses for like until I was like eighteen or something because I thought they were like pretentious. I have a really hard time wearing sunglasses because the difference between my peripheral vision and my forward vision gives me like a little bit of a vertigo. Imagine a shield that covers your whole face with my problem as Molly knows from hanging out for a longtime at random like corners. I really I liked talking to strangers. It's like it gives me my juice. Not always. I mean, definitely not always. But I've I've kind of like it's become part of the texture of my life that I wouldn't wanna get. I'd be like sad. If people if I couldn't connect with people's faces, but at the same time like this, you know, the sunglasses issue. Well, it's interesting to think about this a facial recognition technology blocker. That's true. I wonder if it work because I love that idea. And also that whole story about getting the biometrics of people at a company super we're not just crazy in clock in it, you stand against a wall. And like the scan your face for you to clock in. It's like what they they're just. It seems like it's all a front and I- redacted the name of the the store where she worked, but it was not like a national security for her. She's not working at Google like we exact much like it's not like huge high security like it feels very excessive. If the if the businesses kind of business at the name makes it sound like, yeah. Yeah. I feel like that all of that tech is really really easily compromised to like, I take a picture of like have a full color scan of your face, and like put it in front of your head and walk in front of the scanner and probably like get away with it. You know? Somebody really wants to take your identity, and it's just your face. Like, I don't know. I like that that facial recognition technology will never be as good as like a crow is right recognizing human. Well. But I mean like we have to say like crows are extremely intelligent superintendent, really intelligent. Yeah. I just think like the idea of putting so much of your identity on your face. Feels like a really like slippery philosophical argument to not only because like everybody gets work done now and stuff, and that's like fairly common, especially very philosophically scary thing when you look on Instagram, and it's like every beautiful person has the exact same face very weird phenomenon. Yeah. What if everybody had no face at all? That would be worse. No think about it. The blink. No. That's like the stuff of nightmares like, wink, Feng cute. Well, this show this. This is my shadow person experience with this. No face. There's no face in dick, Tracy. Yeah. Turns out to be Madonna then spoiler for decreasing. Look it all comes together. We're just talking about dick Tracy last week. All one team. It is all one theme. Well, this this Email was amazing. Thank you so much for. Yes. It was awesome. I wanted to say real quick and kind of on the subject of of guests like future dystopia xtss. In the broad category. I went to Hudson yards today. Like, I wasn't planning on it at all. But I I went to a screening this morning, and I happened to run into a buddy there, and we ended up writing bikes like Iran, I got a city bike, and like I've never biked in New York before because it scares me a lot. But I we biked up to Hudson yards. And for those of you who don't live in New York. Don't know about this. Hudson yards is like this. Terrifying development that now exists basically over the Hudson yards the train yards for for Penn station, and it's really kind of in the middle of nowhere like super super west side midtown. And there wasn't much of anything there before except for the job at center. But now there's like five I think there are five currently hotels condo type, you know, mix use buildings and like a big stupid shopping centre with like a Cartier and a Lululemon in it. And that is what? The Hudson yards is it's the most charmless public space I've ever seen. There's actually a really really good just complete burn of it in the New York Times that came out about the I think the day that it opened just about how like anti-human the spaces. How it's it seems so counter to like the needs of a city like the funny thing is is that the high the high line you near the Highline? Yeah. So it goes up all the way to Hudson yards now. Oh, basically like runs into this wall of steel and glass that just like you one right into the giant skyscraper. And it's funny because I think of the highlight is being something that like is actually pretty humanistic. And like a nice space, even though it's a total people's zoo. Like, it's a nice like thing that they decided to put money into but purpose? The Hudson yards is like totally from this like post human dystopia. It's like. Very there's there's this big thing in the middle of called the vessel. Yeah. That's what people have been concentrating on. That is like it's like an art installation in the middle. And it's literally a staircase to nowhere. Apparently. Really? Yes. So the vessel the crazy thing about this. And this is I'm looking now at this article on curbed, New York the vessels basically made to be a Instagram trap. Because it's so crazy looking it looks like a big like producer Rachel is calling the showroom. I think that's like the nickname that they're working on for people are trying to make that one stick. Because it does look like a meat tornado. But people take these pictures of it, and there are like terms and conditions. If you visit the vessel, which means that you agree that if you go into the structure, okay, when you attentive readers notice that hidden within the cels visitor, terms and conditions which ticket holders agree to. When signing up to climb the structure, there's a clause that more or less gave Hudson yards the right to photos audio recording video footage depicting or relating to vessel for any purpose whatsoever in any and all media in either case now known or developed later. So like, basically if you it a trap. Yeah. You to use? That's why you said it's a sliver. Yeah. Yeah. It's like this. It's a staircase to nowhere that everybody gets like Instagram photos in. I think I read somewhere else that there's photo recognition for it. Like the structure because it's such a unique structure. So that like there's some kind of algorithm that can tell when somebody is taken a photo of of the the vessel and then can use that to use that photo for promotional purposes or whatever they want like the confined photos of it. Just automatically on. So it's super skinny also if the stuff with even at all charming or kind of fun to look at it would be one thing. But it's so ugly all of it. It's so in like everybody goes there because they know that they have to get a picture taken there because it's like the Instagram thing now to get your picture taken there. But like, what do you do like, what is inside nothing? It's just stares. It's literally stairs to nowhere. Honey comb thing of stairs. That's like a kind of half. Like a basket, basically. So you can call their exits. It's a great question. I think so. Yeah. That's my main question about it seems like a death trap. Yeah. I don't think there's an elevator anything in it. Like it's all stairs. So it's not accessible like a water slide that got grounded. You know, it's just like really like it and the super skinny towers in New York that like appear overnight that like oligarchs park their money in right? Are like really really great visual metaphors for. Yeah. We have those too. And like we have way too many of now that you guys also have a lot of New York or those pop up museums than are museum's opening one down the street from where we record here called the museum of fruit that we were getting mad about because it's like the space that used to be an art store, and then it was like recently a Halloween store, and then they're turning it into the museum of fruit, which is like an Instagram thing with different rooms in each room is like a fruit that you take photos in front of it. It's like we need housing so bad leak. This is insane. And then I was in the Beverley center, which is another kind of staircase to nowhere of its own. It's been under construction. For like ten years now like the finished it. But it hasn't like they didn't change anything. It's hilarious. They like just put this kind of Frank Airey great on the outside. And they're like I thought that was part of the construction though, it's on the top floor. It's also like does a weird labyrinth thing to my brain. Because it's the took out the movie theater in the food court. So when I go to the top, and that's not there anymore like we now. Yeah. One thing and it's like being in a video game where you like go down the wrong way. Because you're like, I know something here, but it's not anymore. And when they put in its place is nothing. But then there's like a playboy pop up right now. That's like I didn't pay because I wouldn't pay for a pop up. But it's like the playboy museum like go in the room. That's the fake playboy club and take your photo in front of some stuff for fifteen dollars. We're like the the word museum is becoming completely. Yes. Like we. We a road freight, and it's interesting because obviously the way museums or program did start to cater to Instagram like Caesar. Yeah. Like when it which was smart to be like, you can take photos in front of the art. Yeah. You know? I mean, I went into the Hilma f clip show. Like, I I did my part I didn't post the photos there. But like, you know, it's not the appeal of that for mainly. Nobody saw a lot of people posting about that one. I thought it was funny because I just kept being like Hilma. Clint af totally. Well, so she's cool. So no, it was it was a cool show. It's just like, but and I really really genuinely enjoyed it. But I, you know, there were people who are just going through and taking a photo of everyone and not even looking at taking a moment to look at the art with their own eyes. Which is you know, just kind of rate experience Konomi has gotten so weird also gonna call it. Now, not that I'm going to stop using it. But in a way think like Instagram might be the most insidious social media platform in what way go on. Well, I just feel like talking about facial recognition and having these kind of Instagram traps like it takes more legwork to kind of draw a person to a physical location, and then expect to for them to give you exposure. If it's in a written piece versus just a picture. I mean, it's obviously Cross's language barriers. That's like easily interpreted by anyone and there's a lot of data that. You can collect from that. Without the person really understanding how they're interacting with the platform. I say conversely tick tock, which is the new vine yet. I think might be good and save us all. It's old town road came from. Yeah. Right. It's it's we're town road came from and then J kings been posting all these amazing. He's got. Good stream. And it's literally a stream called of stream cooking. It's like foraging in a stream and the cooking in the stream. And it's the most relaxing, great cooking in the stream. Yeah, you have to and a street. I almost don't want to like spoil the one that he posted because it's linked. Okay. I almost screamed when I saw what happened at the end of it. I was like so delighted. That's all right. In the show notes. So everyone can see low internet will return is so slow internet. The other thing I think of when it comes to Instagram about, you know, maybe being secretly the most insidious is just the way that certain visual things are normalized in it or patterns and behaviors or just repeated over and over and over again until they become reality. And for some reason like there's obviously the linguistic version of that. But then there's the like visual version of that. There was an article recently in the Atlantic about how the current batch of new Instagram influencers are like abandoning what we think of as the Instagram aesthetic, like they're not doing the super bright colors and food arranged just so and that they're like it's blurry out a focus. Yeah. Yeah. They're like, you know deal with it grunge Instagram. But I still thought that was interesting at least like 'cause he sent tend to think of these things like the. Of influences as being like this big lake just one big movement. But the idea that there are some people who are I don't know. I also feel like it must be so weird for like like if you're a kid who knows people that are making a living as influencers. Yeah. Yeah. That must shift your perception of like, if you're like bad is what's valuable and like nobody thinks about like when will this end, right? Like, both also like if no career is sustainable, why not go for the career that everybody knows is not sustainable, but like burns the brightest. And at least you you're prepared going into it. Yeah. I also just say that the other thing that I think is kind of unsettling about Instagram is the story. Well, first of all, it's it's the the platform that I think is most kind of explicitly expecting you to document in real time, you know, and I think that the stories feature also gives this weird like you're able to really track a person's movements. Not that. I would. But the irregularly you could like a. Looking at Molly stories. I was like, okay, she's moving through the renaissance fair. And now she's here. Like, I can almost do like a map of where Molly goes, right? And then I could pin it to my bedroom wall and. Seeing real time. I tomorrow interfered steps and look for. We know people are posting in real time. But I feel like sometimes they're not. But I think across the board most people do it's something that you do without thinking. And it's also it seems to be like less incriminating. You're not really expressing opinions as I'm gonna go ahead and say, I do think about it. And I generally post after I'm not at that place anymore stare. It'd be so like here's where I am. Right. This second. But it's also like with Twitter, I think after the justina on the plane thing went I mean after everyone realized that like a bad tweak and kind of ruin your day month year, career, whatever there's there's nothing an Instagram. I mean, you've gotta terrible Instagram couch in, but for the most part most people I follow are not writing like little mini as as very often harder to get cancelled from Instagram. Yeah. It's harder to get cancelled from Instagram. And as a result, you can thoughtlessly document things without I mean with Twitter, I think now everyone gives like a little more pause before they express something chat. Rubicon exactly. No, I remember like seeing David show had Snapchat. And I would not he brought it to Disneyland. I was like why would you document like every five seconds of things that are happening like who wants that? And then that just became how everyone does everything do I like don't I think it's too much the amount of energy that it takes for me is like not worth it. I it's not actually thought was me to post a selfie like I have so many selfie. That's because you're such a director the directors. But I'm just like oh like. On the on the top nine photos on my Instagram. If if any more than three of them are selfish, and I start to get really self conscious that the everybody thinks I'm just an idiot who post selfies I don't think you post too many self Emily. And I tell you I think also once you're past a certain age like it doesn't feel self conscious anymore. Yeah. Kind of like here's my face. It's what I was part of my body. Saw got I think it took me a long time to be like to not feel like it was just really vain to post selfish to be like it's fine to just be like, right, right, documenting that I exist that sort of the funny thing about launching the patriot on this week as like photos of ourselves video out there. And like it's not that we're don't have photos of herself out there. We're just like not primarily I would say like visually represented people. And there was somebody who responded to one of them be like it's so weird to see like sound coming out of their mouths at the same. Like, I always thought bunch of people. Maybe. Yeah. It was like maybe we've hidden our faces like to well, people don't realize that all of the whole video is CGI Emily had to computer generate. I mean, that's why I was saying a lot of work because she accidentally really. Yeah. Yeah. So much wire work. He goes before we wrap up. Can we take one last night? Call. Yeah. Lutely, can it be the abject cosmic horror one okeydokey? This Email comes from Christian. He night Khali says still of the podcast lot, whatever crazy days and lonely nights are in store for us all in the last ups owed you asked about listeners reactions to the black hole images, and I can tell you abject cosmic horror. Why the online community is celebrating this image of a giant piece of nothingness is beyond me. I have always had mainly fear of the vast -ness of space, usually bigger than any sense of wonder or off. However, this brings me to a question to you connected to the sense of cosmic a few nights ago, my girlfriend, and I were sitting on my terrace drinking white wine and looking at the stars one particularly bright and blinking. One particularly bright and blinking star. Caught. Our I in my girlfriend's night sky app. Told us it was Arcturus of red giant thirty six light years away. One hundred ten times brighter than our sun. We both shuttered at that thought then I remembered reading about pan psych ISM, the idea that the entire universe and everything in it, not just us. But every tree in rock has a consciousness one piece of evidence for pancake ISM is that stars movements in the galaxy. Seems to be explicable only if we assume their own volition, the idea that Arcturus might have some sort of incomprehensible consciousness scared my girlfriend, even more, but I got a weird sense of constellation from it that there is this being there instead of just a cloud of very hot gas, which would you prefer in which scares me more. Christa? Oh such a good night climbing. I know the answer mmediately are need the lack of consciousness is so much more scary like I mean, yes, that's a very quick way to feel okay about the vast -ness of space is that like some somebody up there, you guys know in Griffith observatory in the museum part, the there's sort of that downstairs area where there's like a huge mural on the side of the IRS, and it's supposed to be if you hold up your finger, and you're looking at the night sky like your index finger like kind of close to your face, the amount of the the night sky that fits into your finger is approximately what that part of the wall represents which is about three stories high. And I don't know it cannot be over overstated how big spaces. Yeah. I think the thing that's upsetting about that. Is the fact that there's not anything they're like the as far as we know or that there's not anything comparable to what we understand as being consciousness or life or sentence out there. I think that's immensely more. Than the stars having consciousness. Well, I just wanted to say that the Griffith park observatory has been closed for the last week. Oh, no. And we are start. No, it's fine. They remain. Well, it supposedly to install LED lights along the path. But at night, call we are starting the rumor here you heard it first that it's because they found an alien. Oh, good one. Right. Totally disseminate that great Molly referred if think of planets as being sentient or just objects. I'm gonna tell you I like make everything sentient whether it wants to be or not I was a kid. I was really into like giving numbers personalities. Nice. I know. Exactly. Yeah. Sign that. I would not be good at math because at world building. We went to a camp and laments called Astro camp. Oh, yeah. That was like a sleep way camp for couple nights Idyllwild where it's like space themed. But it was like you're supposed to go on this night hike. And there's this whole thing was like the big thing is the night hike and the new like shoe winter in lifesavers in the dark to mix parks and look at the stars through. Tony. You can't. But it was too foggy to see the star. So instead, they showed us powers of ten. By the eases. And I'd never seen it before. And it's scared the living daylights out of me because it's just like here's space, and then it just goes here and further away and further away and like it just never ends. And we don't know where it ends. And there's no end the end the beginning of contact. Yeah. But I think I think now I find it weirdly consoling I like that. There's no order to things. Maybe I'm a anarchist. You definitely are an anarchist. I've been told that if you and I'm like, but I like order to some things right? You're a Virgo anarchists. Yeah. Yeah. Like a. An uncluttered chaos. Yeah. Definitely felt bad for the planet. Pluto in my life. Oh, for sure I mean, Pluto was also always kind of like an emotionally accessible planet. I think I like also that when you see things, and it's like, we don't know why the moon exists. Oh, hey, speaking of which I just wanted to spend a moon minute with you guys really briefly to let you know that a new study that was conducted by American Japanese researchers hypothesized that the moon was formed when a proto planet crashed into earth way back in the day. When earth was just like a ton of it was covered with like a sea of magma and the magma splashed into outer space, and then it expanded. And then it like jell together and made the moon. Great theory flow of it. And they're like this theory is just as viable as all the other theories. None of which we know if they're true. Well, there were like problems with previous theories is the there were like gaping holes. And I didn't we didn't know why the mooning says, well, they didn't understand why it was its materials were so earth-like, but also not earth. Like, I looked at the moon through a real Parab Oculus recently that also made my brain explode. Yeah. It's like I really like. Yeah. But it also against comforting. You're like we matter so little it's great. Well with that without I think that does it for this week's night. Call thank you so much for all your night calls a night emails this week. And we're glad we had a chance to get some of them. If you have any thoughts or night calls. You wanna make yourself, please? Give us a call at one two four four six night or an Email at night, call podcast at g mail dot com. You can also follow us on Twitter at night. Call pod Instagram at night, call podcast. Cast and Facebook at night, call podcast and subscribe to our patriarch on. It's it's it's it's chugging along now weekend. So go to patriotic dot com slash night. Call and. Check out our newsletter or club all sorts of stuff. We have come in soon in the night. Call verse also watch the video Emily made. It is so amazing especially now that you know, it's all CG. I really appreciate I mean, I wanna be up for an Oscar this year. So yeah. Animated short. Yeah. We'd like to support the new season of an EMMY for Megan which yet not believe it's not an EMMY for me again. Give me an Amraam an EMMY. And then give. Yeah. Of innovation award, or let's just beautiful animated faces threat against them this year like time. Yeah. Every season. Your call. We'll see everybody next week. Thanks for listening. Bye.

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Sexual New Years Resolutions

Nighttime Conversations With Steve and Freja

1:03:59 hr | 3 months ago

Sexual New Years Resolutions

"Welcome to nightime conversations with steve and phraya where we take on the deeper subjects of relationships. Life love sex and personal happiness. I'm your host freia norden. And i'm here with steve cohen. Remember to like subscribe. Today is saturday january. Second two thousand twenty one part of the new and usually this time of year. People are making new year's resolutions. And i've been inspired with something that happened recently with me talking with fran yordan and she mentioned sexual new year's resolutions and what what so i asked her put on. Hold hang on for a sec. Let's save that for a podcast. Because i want to hear all about it. Let's talk about sexual year's resolutions freya take. It helps steve happy new year and up near to you. Tell me about this. What is this. What is this thought of sexual new year's resolutions. Yeah well okay. So everybody's making news resolutions for fitness and money and all these kinds of things. And i think that particularly with the last year and i and i hate saying the seaward. I'm going to say kovin here. And there but i think that there's a lot of people who are frustrated sexually and A lot of people have as their plan of action for sexual frustration. Look at more porn. Make passive aggressive comments complain about the lack of sex or complain about hus- sex's boring or even kind of get nasty about it and start making nasty comments and it doesn't actually go much further than that as far as you know when you're unhappy with sexual problems so i wanted to bring up the subject of like well. How about taking action. That feels good. And is empowering and effective. So are we talking in you. Start sort of thing i'm talking about. A new perspective will k. Versus a new start because there's a broad spectrum of people who may be frustrated sexually from People who've been married for a long time to people who are single and having maybe they're not having any at all. Maybe they're having trouble meeting people. I think that in any circumstance there can be a different approach to sexuality so that you feel like you are again on an empowered path versus that feeling the frustration and a feeling of disempowerment or victimhood. What you said earlier. I see a lot of that in at various discussion groups where there's a lot of complaint and and it's not intentional the nobody decides. I'm going to be grumpy and angry at my wife today. But the complaint is. I want more sex and it's not happening And there's there could be a torn of resentment a tone of. Do we make this happen. So you're the expert in this field. I'm going to lean on you and tell me. Where do we go from here. How do we start. What i what the first let's talk about the the whole complaining thing now. I know like when. I look back at my marriage which was a very long time ago. like us Almost twenty years ago. I did a lot of complaints there not being enough sex and then after a little wilder. It's not just that there wasn't enough sex but it was also like really boring. My husband wasn't seducing me or making me feel attractive and my way of dealing with that was to. I would bottle it up and then once a month and usually that was pms saying because i had less control over my emotions then it would all come out. And i would complain about it. I would bitch. I would be kind of passive aggressive. And then i bought a little up again and i managed to hold it all in for another month and this cycle that continued and it wasn't effective. Didn't work for me at all. Have you had any of those kinds of experience. Oh yeah oh yeah yeah. In previous lives with a number of partners. I always believed that the problem was her that that's what i believe to call. And now i know of course. It was a dilution but i always believe the problem is her because she won't give me sex when i wanted. Or what do i need to learn to turn you on. So i can flip that switch and make you haughty to wanna have sex with me. That's where my mind was at the time so i can relate to this. Oh yeah and it's something super esther parole said about this it pertains to what you said is that she said that Famous a relationship counsellor esa parole said that behind. Every complaint is a desire is a request. But we're not articulating it that way. We're not saying. I wish you would hold me. Where saying you're always busy with this and you're always doing that. We complain about something rather than asking for the thing we truly desire but sometimes even asking for something that you desire doesn't mean you're going to get it yup and that's one of the problems is when you ask for something and you don't get it then what and i would say. That's as much of a problem as the people who just say well. You never do anything romantic from anymore. Would you never you never really spent any time on four play. You don't give any blowjobs. That's very different than asking. Would i would like to spend an evening with you uninterrupted. You don't buy me any jewelry. Yeah but even if somebody asks for something. Because like i said asking is no guarantee that you're going to get from that person that you have made a decision to get everything from yeah which in itself can be problematic. So what can people do to feel better and to feel more empowered instead of feeling like a victim. Because i think that once you start feeling like you're trapped or like you are subject to the other person's moods winds and and they're in control you can start onto a downward cycle which only gets worse than it can only get worse. as long as you're in that mindset for our listening audience a victim mindset often has typically has a number of beliefs and that is i m injured. You have injured me. And i can't be better. I can't feel better. I can't heal unless you change. Those are typically the things that are part of the victimizing. Well when people talk about when therapists talk boats and counselors talk about giving away your power. I think that we're use to talking about women in that context. Oh you give away your power. And i don't think many people really know what that means and i'm going to say that men give away their power just as much as women do so this is this is any gender. This is not women's pacific. It's not specific. Anybody is soon as you put your personal wellbeing and your feelings of okinawa's in somebody else's hands you're giving away your power. That's huge and if we left the podcast at that it would be fine. Because that's a big thing to percolate. On and i think that Most people have a lot of ways where they hand their power over to somebody else even if they're handing their power over to let's say they have a very critical mother who normally they live a good life. They're happy they're happy. Go lucky things are good. They have a good and and then they go home to their moms for christmas and their mom just sort of criticizes them left right and center and even if they're among doesn't criticize maybe we should just comments you. Oh i see you cut your hair. And i see your hair short now in that comment. There's an implied criticism to which the person responds by feeling. Oh i look like oh. I feel like shit. My mom is criticizing me. You've just handed over your power to somebody who's not using it responsibly. Oh i can so relate to that go to the other scenario yup right now. Most people only go as far as to say oh. My mom is so difficult. All i feel so terrible every time but you have to go a little bit beyond that. It's not your mom is just being your mum. Yep you're the one that gave her the power to make you feel shit. So how do you change that. And that's what i want to talk about today. Because a lot of people have handed over all of their wellbeing an all of their sense of wellbeing an sexual happiness to somebody else who may or may not be using it responsibly. Man yeah sorry. Go ahead st in another way of saying that. I can't be happy unless you are ex. Or unless you are not ex- that belief means my happiness my wellbeing dependent on you behaving a certain way rather than i'm accountable for my happiness. So let's get into specifics. Because i want to really only be super practical with. I'm gonna let you go on this. Because i'm dying to hear what you've got to say about. Just want to remind you that. At some point i want to tell you the story the true story of of what you just said and how it relates to my mother. She's passed away now. But i had the exact same experience where all by mother she just. Oh she's so irritating. I can't stand it eventually. Change to make her less. Irritating wasn't her changing. It was me changing. So do your part. I what i want to hear. You tell what's going on first. And then then i'll share my story afterwards. Okay is actually. I have a. I have a group exercise that i wanna do listeners. And i think that your story would be the perfect conclusion after that exercise. It's funny because i wrote on tonight. Yeah so this has been you know. Two thousand twenty. It was a really hard year on relationships. Actually in the and coaches circles were talking about. Oh my god prepare yourself for the influx of divorces because it's been such a difficult year it you know it makes sense because it's a huge number of stress factors which can feel like Everything is out of your control for a lot of people. There's there's financial devastation. Being at home twenty. Four seven with people that you never designed to be in twenty four seven contact with like we're just not designed to be like to be like that And and what may have been a working relationship as long as the two of. You didn't have that much. Contact is no longer a working relationship. When you're together at all times and seemed with children children. Human beings were meant to be in a tribe in a community. Children were not meant to be isolated with a parent at all times zoda. So there's another stress like this is unnatural. And i think that the unnatural stress is leading to natural dissatisfaction. You gotta put that stress somewhere and we're putting that stress on each other. We're we're taking all of it and then we're projecting it on the easiest target and the easiest target is often the person that were with whether that's disposer the kids because we're talking sexual near sexual revolutions resolutions. I want to keep it to the spouse so all of this frustration. Fear and stress can lead to emotional states where you don't have access to the type of high level thinking loving and generosity of heart and spirit which is necessary for a loving happy dynamic and what i mean by. That is on the scale of emotions. I'm gonna put a link in the show notes to the scale of emotions the lower level feelings. Which are things like guilt. Shame fear anger frustrations the these are very destructive and and low level and they're unhealthy and they feel crummy to the that. Well that's how you know they're unhealthy because they feel bad. If something is a healthy emotion it feels good. Something is unhealthy emotion and destructive to your health to your wellbeing to your relationships and to to everything even even to your careers you know it because it feels bad that your body gives you an indicator which is how most people know. And if you steve you. And i were talking about abraham hicks earlier i've been a fan of abraham hicks for a long time but She talks about how your emotional guidance system you reach for the better feeling thought but that's a whole nother story so for many people. It's no longer possible because of covid because of the lockdowns because of what's happening in society Firms are are choosing to help people work from home. It's no longer possible to avoid problematic patterns of thinking and emotions so in the past when i talked about. This was a working relationship. As long as i didn't have to see that much of you now now that i'm seeing you all the time. It's no longer working. And people can no longer escape their patterns there because it's like a melting. It's like a pressure cooker right now. Everything is like all right there in the forefront. You can't escape it's too much. There's another added aspect to that and that is If we have the distraction of work and busy stuff then that keeps us on our mind occupied on something else rather than being alone with her thoughts and then really having to face stuff inside us. That doesn't feel comfortable so it's just much easier to be focused on work. That's a great distraction rather than who am my with my wife. Well there's a lot of ways to escape their work work work a way to escape socialization going and hanging out with your friends or hanging out at the bar. Marijuana is escaped now. Marijuana is an interesting in that if you are in despair in severe pain in grief in in basically the lowest level of feelings marijuana can be a positive step to feeling a little bit better but it's still not it's still not a high level way of thinking and being because you're no longer present so if you're in a terrible state if you're in the worst you can be marijuana can give you a little hand up but it can't actually get you into a healthy positive connected. Way of being an example that is chronic leg pain smokes marijuana. You can ease the pain. That's no longer hurting as much. Yeah or chronic emotional pain. I'm suffering from this. I'm feeling horribly lonely Some marijuana can temporarily ease that. And it eases the paint temporarily. But it's not the fixed to the actual problem so when people start when when people are addressing their sexual frustrations usually. There's a sense of. I want more sex. I'm not happy. I'm not going to be happy unless you give it to me or a lot of times. It in this sort of wanting sex we've addresses another podcast. It's not actually like they're horny right. It's not that they desire their partner but what they want is a feeling that they've associated with having sex right. It's not just the orgasmic. When a guy complaints. I'm not getting sex. It's not like. I don't get a chance to masturbate alone often enough. That's not the story. It's the story is so if that was really. The story masturbate easily fixed that the story is usually. I want more sex with my wife. And you're asking the question. What does it represent to you. What are you looking for. What feeling do you seek to get through that and economic but the thing is that's what's really interesting but he's like well. I want more sex with my wife but so so is it really that you want more sex with your wife or is it that you want the feelings and the connect connected this now and the love that making love with her. Generates they want validation important. They want to know they're important. Not just vaguely important to her. They want to know that they're desirable. They wanna feel like they're amand. They wanna feel like they're still alive. And yes often is a pleasure aspect to it like look at feels good to have somebody. Go down you usually. It's not about that. Yeah otherwise people would. Just go and hire an escort or hire somebody to like you know. Here's thirty bucks. Give me a blowjob or get a a really great feeling sex toy. It's not what they're looking for what they're looking for. They're looking for a feeling these. Imagine that is for guys. I'm speaking to guys now. Is imagine if your wife just lays down on the bench says do me. Is that what you're looking for. You've got availability to sex. Now go ahead do me. And that's not what the guys looking for. He's not looking for a woman who says go ahead and do me. It's i've got twenty minutes ahead. Do me what he's looking for. Is her her passionate interest in him. Her her excitement to be with him her a desire to want him. And you're right and that those are just symptoms of the phillies. He wants such as i am worthy. I am lovable undesired. I'm somebody not a worthless guy who's out of work right now. Who can't support his family. I am valued. I'm desire wanted. Yeah and just A as an aside. This is often the reason why people have affairs. They don't have affairs because their partner isn't good enough or because they don't have no they don't have affairs because they're horny. They have affairs because there's a feeling that they're looking for and they think that they can get it through this other person so my idea of a new year sexual resolution is to work on yourself and i know that there's there's going to be an immediate visceral response like fuck you. This is not going to get me the sex that i want. This is a useless new year's resolution. But if you do this and hear me out it will change your sexual life and currently were in a situation which is somewhat out of our control. I can't control what the government's doing i can't control the lockdown. I can't control the work environment or any of those kinds of things and ultimately i can't control anybody else around me to in what they give to me what they don't give to me. Your free will steps in. Yeah what i can. Control is how i feel and how connected i feel and how satisfied i feel and how fulfilled i feel regardless of what anybody else is doing and the interesting ironic thing is the better you feel in that regard the more good stuff like sex like sexual attention like sexual validation like people who just wanna make you feel good and do everything that you could possibly want sexually the more shows up. It's almost like you can't get there from here. You can't get more satisfying sex from an emotional place of frustration and resentment and as long as you're resenting that resentment is gonna hold you apart from the types of experiences that you want it. It's this might sound woo to some of our listeners. But i hear you entirely a idaho. You sound but it's not. I hear you completely what you're talking about. An i agree with you on one side. The ghetto i know that men who consider themselves sexually underprivileged amusing that word museum that god who consider themselves sexually underprivileged have a resentment towards men who have a way with women. It's not that day look good. It's not that they have big dicks. It's not that they have a lot of money. It's not that they have big muscles. What's appealing is really your underlying emotional vibration and i'm using that term vibe. Sorry i'm using it. That's okay but it's really true and it works that way within a relationship is well. Yeah so Coming back to the beginning of the podcast when we were saying like. If you complain about you know oh it's not like it's not like we do it anymore. We're basically in a sexless marriage. Oh it's not. It's not like you really want me anymore if you make if you complain and you're coming from that place you're basically the least attractive. You probably be. Oh yeah who goes through. Nothing more repulsive to u- who goes to a bar and says oh that guy complaining there. That's what i want never happens. Yeah no no. It doesn't happen and Passive aggressive comments. There's like hints. There is nothing less attractive than a hint or passive aggressive comment about sex. Nothing even with people who you love and find sexually attracted if behave in that manner and they're coming from that energy and from the space the person that you know i remember i had a lover and he look. I was so attracted to this love. I was so attracted to him in all the ways and one of the things i wasn't attracted to is. He has kind of entitled selfish attitude towards sex. Another good luck. He was very giving to me cause he liked my responses but he would make comments about blow jobs because i didn't give them all out his blow jobs and the reason i did is because he was a little bit entitled in sort of rubbed me the wrong way so he would make these through in these little hints about blow jobs and about erotic massage. Because he wanted that for me would it be an abacus. Snarky remark like. I'm a blowjob deficit this week or something like that. Those were the words but he he would just throw online and yeah and sometimes he would make comments about how in the past he would so so he would say. Oh yeah i was. I was driving. And i drove by this girl that he used to see and she would give him like an hour blowjob like a couple times a week and she. She noticed his card. She was smiling him and he would try to make me a little jealous like as if oceans giving him attention. I'm at risk somehow of him getting a blowjob from her. I was like. I don't give a shit like honestly that's the only thing that would inspire me to give him a generous. I mean generous. Blowjob would be. If i felt that he was coming at me with the same energy. Go and that would open up my heart and when my heart is open i will give anything so i just wanna shine a light on two things. One is to be self aware so that we can tell. Is this thing i'm saying. Is that a jab. That that is a backhanded jab. That i'm sending to my partner. Because i want something when i'm in critical so be be self aware and the other is if you're if your entire objective is to get i need to get sex. You'll be sending a different vibe than arly like you. I appreciate you. And i really like you and i appreciate you is pretty much the most compelling roddick vibration you can send out. I heard a female comedian just recently and this is on. Tv nodded person. And she said don't you just hate it when guys are just like nagging just to get sex. It's it's such a turnoff a sit. She says Recently met a guy he says. Hey we don't have to do sex. That's totally fine. She says what what what we don't have to do sex or now we have to. I know but that's how it works. That's really how it works and so what you said about you. Said if trump awareness the self awareness and when you make a comment so if you catch yourself making a comment or thinking of thought because of the same thing they have the same effect and actually you don't have to say a word if you're if you're thinking of thought and and having that feeling of resentful sexual complaint it comes out somehow so catch yourself and reframe it to okay. Here's this person that i want something from instead of thinking about the complaint. Imagine appreciating them aerobically which sounds very wu and it. Sounds like yeah. This is a bunch of new age. Bullshit stuff. But i can tell you it works if you appreciate somebody. Ironically it's like magic and that jake that appreciation has to be genuine appreciation rather than obscene this to get a yes. Yeah yeah that that energy of getting it doesn't work unfortunately it just doesn't work i. Unfortunately it's not that important. So what you describe as my life for for most of my life. I craved the attention of women. Believing i can only be happy if i find a partner. Who's going to give me abundance. Sex. who's always a haughty who's bisexual. I can only be happy. If i find that. And i really believe and i got virtually no sex ed. I was not happy. Guy continued to be not happy guy Eventually i worked on shifting. Who i am for me took me many years. But at the on the far side of the journey i eventually discovered that sex is really easy to get and it's no longer big deals norger thing. I'm aching four. What i really like his connection. And now i honestly i can beat a really attractive woman or just an average looking woman. I can connect with somebody and really like them. And somehow they sense this that i'm relaxing you and it. It leads to a closer and emotionally closer connection that might inspire somewhat might inspire onto a sensual erotic or sexual experience. It's not a guarantee but it might inspire them in that direction. Just that whole thing of ice authentically appreciate you. We don't need to get sexy. That's totally fine. I'm just like including being presence. I just like being around you. And here's why like it. That is a different kind of vibe. Then so are we going to play toy so practically speaking if you want to working on yourself versus working on getting working on yourself is is a sort of about way of having what you want sexually come to you naturally and some of the things. I'm going to recommend instead of saying. Give me more sex particularly in this like like. I called like a pressure cooker environment where we can't always control helmet stress. We have we can't control. How much stress is going on in the household with with kids or with work or this and that so pick some things this year that you were going to learn and master and enjoy to feel better about yourself and specific examples for are something that you can do with your partner or even if you're a single it doesn't matter there's a an app called. Omg yes have you heard steve. I have not actually heard the name. But i've never looked into it so it's not like it's like every second ad on my facebook is like Omg yes which tells you about targeting. So it's an app that has studied women cross the board and distilled their sexual responses into duplicate -able actions. I'm all ears keep on going. Yes and so everybody always says you. Women are mystery. Every woman is different. The technique is different this and that not really patterns and the only reason that women are mystery is because women have never been given the type of attention that men have in science so somebody actually put the attention onto women and into studying their erotic response and different ways that women were spawned sexually so if you care about learning see this is the thing like when people wanna learn about the opposite sex and and their sexual responses they think that somehow taking like a two hour course is going to teach them everything that they need to know about. sexual look. Look if you want to study the opposite sex. This is a lifelong study. It doesn't happen in a year. It doesn't happen in a day or a month or whatever so. Omg yes is one of those things which can improve. If you're a woman that can improve your self understanding if you're a man that can improve your understanding of women and so for example if the two of you get this. Oh my god. Yes or or Omg yes or one of you gets it. You can improve your understanding of women's sexual response. Okay so. I don't know anything about this app. But i'm guessing that it's not. How do i manipulate this woman at to give me the sex i want. What do i have to do in order to get no. It's it's understanding female sexual response. Yeah so i i. I'm just speculating that. It's likely the direction of if i can be a more generous person and take the pressure off of sex. If i can take the expectation of sex off the table and just be receptive to allowing it. Should it arise that increases the chances of it happening. Well it's like this. If you understand how okay so you wanna get fitter okay so you wanna get fitter you are either you can either understand physiology and how muscle grows and how okay this is. How muscle works. I have to feed the muscle. After work the muscle have to allow it proper Rest and it builds itself and there are other factors in place such as age hormones and all these kinds of things. If you understand that then you can pretty much design your own program as far as making your muscles grow or being fit or being fit in a certain way if you don't understand that you're at the whims of coaches or people who really don't know anything about fitness but they were lucky maybe to be blessed with good physique telling you how to be fit. So what do you like. I don't know. I guess maybe it's a person i want to know how things work and sexist very interesting to me so i care about how sex works and i wanna know how to how i have the benefit of because my work i i get bodies hands on. I get to experiment with bodies to see them. I get to feel them to see patterns over years and years and years and years. And years i get to see the patterns of how people sexually respond in a lot of different ways and firestone. Most people don't get that experience minor standing of your work is it's not just physical techniques it also includes understanding how mind works and understanding what turns on the mind and tapping into that. Yeah very much. So yeah so for so for example a new year's resolution maybe well instead of just seeing if i can get a few more blowjobs this month maybe the two of us can Sign up for the. Oh my god yes Another new year's resolution or another good opportunity would be There there's an app. I think it's called dipsy smith all erotic stories so for example the two of you can say hey. I'm going to read. It doesn't have to be dipsy. Can be anywhere but i'm gonna read erotic stories and we're gonna maybe we're gonna read one or two of them to each other at nighttime per month and either talk about will. What was it about that story that turns you on another one may be for example personal empowerment. So david snyder who somebody that i really really admire. He's taught me a lot. He talks about attraction and seduction. Those are buzzwords but really david snyder is about empowering yourself to be the best person that you can be an in that you will naturally attract the kinds of things that you want your life including sex so with david snyder's work. Maybe you're going to work on yourself. And i'm saying that if you want more and better sex stop looking at where you think or believe. The source of that satisfaction is coming from. Look in the mirror in start being the change that you want to see from other people the message from at least at least the way the the way my brain interprets. What you're saying is i. I'm seeing instead of thinking. I need sex. So i can feel better is adopt the perspective of allow myself figure out how to become a happier being figure out how to be more joyful and then that through my interactions with others that joy. I'm bringing to the table. That's what i'm contributed the happiness. The joy the wellbeing that then inspires wellbeing enjoyed with others and then that creates the opportunities for greater desire and possibly more socks. Yeah and another one So i'm going to put a list in the show notes of different resources for people who like to improve themselves sexually. Another one is betty. Martin dot org yeah. She's got a series of videos and information on the wheel of consent. And it's a sidestep to kane serve saying give me more sex and said you're learning about how each other works and what the dynamics of giving receiving doing this is a big thing if you understand more about your partner in yourself. You're going to naturally have better experiences. So i really wanted to before you told your mother story. Steve i wanted to give a practical example of what i'm talking about when i say have the experience like be the change that you want to see in the other person. I'm i'm all for that. You ready okay. I've been working on that for twelve years and making amazing progress. So i swear by that instead of trying to get whatever it is you seek is be the person that is the substance of that stuff. So this thing. I'm going to lead our listeners through a group experience and it's really important that you participate intellect listening and intellectual. Leising is not going to give you that. A ha moment of ohio. This is what it feels like to actually embody the experience of being okay. Okay so i'll play along. But do i need. A box of kleenex is by my side. I don't see okay. I don't think you will because there's not. It's not one of those like to go and he'll all your traumas it's more. I wanna give. An example of kleenex is just in case. But i wanna play along with you so go ahead do it all right. I want you to you can do this in real life or you can just mentally do it. List tattered twenty things that there are to complain about right. Now in the world The world at large global politics or your smaller world like your car breaking down the faucet leaking co that masks money racism and i want you to go on a mini internal rant about one of your favorite subjects to be pissed off about. Okay are you can go on wednesdays. I can do it. Do only max she talked about. Yeah go on one okay. Human caused global climate change. It like pisses me off that into. The signs are everywhere. We've been knowing about this for decades and yet there are millions of people in denial saying. No it's not happening. humans aren't causing it. Just keep on doing things as we are. I could go on that for hours. Yes i could. I and especially because you know why because money and i'm like how can you put. How can you put more billions like it's not like you need anything. Y- you don't need a thing how can put more billions over the earth really anyway so go on like for a minute okay. An keep on renting you can keep on ranting but really what i really want is for people to access that anger and access that that bitching that complaining that feeling of like plus steve. The thing that bugs me is. There's nothing i can do about it. Like i actually cannot do anything i can clean up my yard. I can pick up garbage. But i can't do anything about these big companies which poor so much pollution and chemicals into the ocean the plastics all that kind of stuff pollution as profitable so forget about the the cost less on making profit so make a fist with your left. Hand talking to everybody right. Now make this with your left hand doing an whole and hold that fist. While you do this. Continue that complaint. And i want you to think about somebody that you care about could be. A friend could be a lover. If you're in the sexual new year's resolutions thing it could be your spouse and continue complaining and list the most annoying things about this person that you care about and list times that they annoyed you recently. And they're annoying qualities should be pretty easy for a lot of people particularly if we're talking about their partners and i want you to pour all of that betrayal that disappointment that anger that disdain that sort of like lack of trust just pour all of these things into that left fist in and get into that zone of of when you're sitting there in your house and your so annoyed at the toilet seat up. They splashed piss on the floor. Okay so holding that space. After doing this steve. Did you get some complaints about somebody that you care about gaga about this woman and there's very few complaints but i do have some thoughts that that would like to change. Yes so How does it feel to be on that train. And masking this To the listeners. How does it feel to be on that train of criticism and thinking these bad thoughts about that person that you care about it can even be disappointment. It doesn't have to be hostile to console yet. It can be sadness it can be feeling let down by them and jeff can be betrayed when you're on that train when you're in that space do you like them very much. Are you ready to end that friendship or that relationship or do you feel like you're in that questioning period. Do i even want this relationship. Do i want this marriage and asking yourself. Why do i even bother. Are you in that space of you. Know what i'm going to give me give this misery and other five years and then maybe when the kids are grown up all aleve it just pay attention to that fist again with your left hand and really feel what it feels like to have. All of these thought patterns and feelings come flooding back into body. So if you can. Some people can't because of the way. They're headphones i or maybe they're driving or stuff like that. I want you to get up. Shake it off. Shake both your hands like as if you're shaking water off them so i can unclench my left fist clenched fist. Shake off okay. I'm doing i'm sitting. Yeah if you can stand up and shake your body and walk in a circle around the room do it take any breath. I am doing that. I'm actually hey. Yeah still got my headphones on. I got a good course. I'm walking around the room. Look at a boring spot on the wall. Recite your phone number out loud to me backwards. Backwards steve okay. Good the backwards thing. I just wanted to break state so it was good and happy. Find another boring spot on the wall. Not the same one a different one and or on the ceiling. If you're lying on your back listening to this and you can look at the ceiling. Just just find somewhere boring to focus on and the pay attention to your breath and start to breathe in slowly and exhaling just a little longer than your inhale focused on lengthening that exile. Just a little bit making your breath comfortable and allow your eyes to become unfocused now and blurry and pay attention. To the periphery of your vision instead of that focus spot. Pay attention to the very edges. Of the periphery and imagine expanding it back even further. Almost as if you could see kind of behind your head because there's a limit to our peripheral vision. Good need to breathe as you're focused. Your eyes unfocused. I should say him blurry we'd comfortably. Now close your eyes and notice. The weight of your body as it is supported beneath. You buy whatever it is that you're resting on notice the sensation of the soles of your feet. Maybe they're in socks and there's fabric against them or maybe the resting on the floor continuing to breathe nice and gentle notice your right hand and how the sensations in your right hand are different from the sensations on your left hand and all. We're doing his noticing without needing to make any changes. And what i'm gonna have you do is imagine that you're breathing in and out from the center of your chest and of course the air is literally moving in and out of your nose or your mouth and coming through your throat but imagine that the breath is coming from the chest and from the heart center and that as you breathe. You're actually breathing in light in and out of your body go ahead and relax your body all the way from head to toe that a warm blanket of comfort and relaxation. Wash from the top of your head. All the way to the tips of your toes and sink down even further relaxing completely. Now make a fist with your right hand. Not so hard that it hurts to hold it but just make fest and imagine something or someone that fills you with pure unadulterated love and joy. It doesn't matter who it is could be a puppy. It could be imagining holding a newborn baby or the first time that you made love. And you looked into your lover's eyes and health after you did it the first time or the best time. What matters is that you feel that love and feel it now and just hold an imaginary smile as you. Breathe that love in and out of your chest and let it flow down into your hands disassociate that that fist. Without feeling of beautiful. Love in your heart. Magin that feeling of love shining from the center of your chest like a son and if you could turn up the volume on it turn not love up from wherever it is all the way up to ten suffer from zero to ten. Turn up the volume. All the way so that it's brilliance overpowers everything in your completely engulfed in this light. Hold that light and hold your right fest. Feel that love. And now i want you to make a fist with your left hand and at the same time. Think of the person that you complained about just a few moments ago. And i want you to shine all of that light. All of that love onto them and send them all to love and appreciation. You have right now. Imagine looking at them with the light of love in your eyes and in your heart and intentionally with that love and without light. Imagine you could illuminate. All of the things. There are to notice about them. That can be appreciated. Go on a rampage in your own. Mind or out loud if you want you because sometimes it feels good to just say it out loud go on a rampage of what you love about them in your mind and notice how good it feels to be on that rampage of appreciation and sometimes the things are really silly. I love how your fuzzy gray beard feels against my neck when you kissed me. How soft it feels or when you're working on the sink your pets always slide down and there's this little plumber's crack and it's hilarious. But somehow it just sparks it. Sparks joy of laughter. In my heart. What you appreciate as a matter. Wouldn't the point is at your appreciating sh. You can relax your hands and open your eyes. My question is what's the difference between wanting to kill somebody that you're generally close to in wanting to love on them. Is it them are they. I say this in quotations driving you nuts or is it you and is it your thought patterns and the feelings that you have access to and i'll give you the answer it's you and ultimately if you're suffering due to your relationship the answers lie inside of you versus in controlling the other person's behavior and ironically once you shift what happens internally once you shift internally these feelings from criticism to appreciation you will see it is the law. You will see circumstances with your partner or with the world at large which are more satisfying and so last night. I listened to a livestream on youtube by A phenomenal teacher and coach and killer named david snyder. Who i'm going to link to in the show notes and somebody in the questions in the in this livestream asked him how to be happy and i liked his answer well enough to write it down because of course i i knew that stephen i we're gonna be doing a podcast and david snyder said to live a life that is in harmony with your values and that's the key to happiness because anything that and and that's the end of his quote and i'm saying anything that's outside of your values is gonna sort of chafe so when you know what your values are. You need to be living within those values. That's different than trying to get what you want to pursue lutely absolutely and i'm paraphrasing. But he went on to say you can't put responsibility for creating an optimal life on any other person. And he said that. So he's a real family guy and you can see that with his livestreams like his daughters are. They're always popping into his livestreams. He talks about his wife in glowing terms. He's really really about his family and he he said you know if his family were to disappear. He has built just like from one day to the next. If they were somehow disappear he has a life that would be happy and fulfilling outside of them. And that's the key. Everybody needs to build that. Everybody has to have a life that is happy fulfiling instead of expecting somebody else to provide it for them. And that's different than i don't care about you. I'm indifferent that's totally different. It's it's a totally different thing. What are you saying. What he's saying is contribute. What i bring to. The table is my joy. And my well being. And i share that with you and i appreciate you and i value in my life. He's all about what you bring to the table because what you bring you. Also get in return. Steve i'm going to conclude with this statement. But i want you to tell your story after the statement and then we're going to stop recording so my question to the audience is what three things can you do right now today tomorrow next week to take more responsibility for your sexual happiness so that you're not giving away that power to somebody else big one. That's a big so before we go on I just want to tell you that. I i have a hard time with google stuff but This exercise exercise. You did makes me think like you know the story that i'm going to tell you about my experience with my mother. It sounds really trivial compared to what we've just went through So i have my kleenex box beside. I'm drying up though motionless in my eyes. So yeah those. There's something to that. Oh i encourage people to rewind this podcast and and do this. Do this exercise. Possibly several times. Don't do it back to back but just do this exercise. The thing that phrase just walked us through do that rewind it and do it I encourage you. I found it. I went into its skeptical. Because i don't deal well with but yeah there's something to it so well technically speaking i do have to say now. I'm a i'm a very experienced. And also well trained hypnotherapist and neuro linguistic programmer. And i the effects that happen when you actually fully participate in this type of exercise are measured by science. So it's not a this. Exercise was not a woo hoo exercise. It was to prove the point. That how you feel is determined by what you focus on his. What you focus on is where energy goes an energy really is the ability to create work right so if your energy is on what you appreciate about people you're gonna get more of that if your energy is on what you hate about somebody. You're going to get more of that. It sounds simplistic but somehow we humans forget about it as we sit there in this critical commentary pattern and then we wonder why we're not attracted to our partners and if you want to elicit Sexual generosity from another person you cannot ever elicit sexual generosity willingness and attraction from somebody by criticizing them. You can only get there by appreciating them. Because i can tell you that when somebody appreciates you fully you blossom in their presence. And that is actually. I know that. I have met men who just love women. They appreciate them. That type of man feels really good to be around. That's different than i desire you for sex or desire your company. That's different the appreciation. Is i just like you. I like being around you. It's it's totally different. When you stop you can actually enjoy a person for who they are. It doesn't matter what their faults are because their faults are not the part of them that you want to interact with any way you want to interact with the best of them so focus on the best of them and you're going to get the best of them get whatever you focus on you amplify your experience exactly. Yeah says steve. I really want to hear story. It feels trivial compared to what it would just experience. So here's a story. My mother's passed away now but when she was alive she used to have this really weird quirk. Where if we had a wind storm. I would get a call from other steve. Are you okay to win this horrible. I just wanted to make sure you're okay and it would aggravate me here. I am an adult. I'm in at the time was in my forties late forties. Why is she like a kid. Just stop this. cut it out. I'm fine. I'll let you know if i crawl confine and it would irritate me and i believed she irradiates me. She's treating me like a kid. And years later. I realized why am i feeling this way. And that is because it's taken me back to being a kid. I'm feeling now the feelings. I would have as a small child who's trying to prove i've grown up. I'm not a five year old. I'm six now. You don't have to baby me anymore. That's what i'm feeling. And that's what i'm reacting to. So i chose to adopt different perspective and that is rather than my mom is tricky mulic kid and she's calling upon me to make that it truly mlk. I chose to adopt another perspective. That is my mother is just being the way she is has nothing to do with me. She's just being a mom concerned about her adult of grownup kids thinking that their kids that they need care she's just being a mom hoping for their wellbeing not that she can affect it or change it. She's just hoping for her wellbeing and these are the words that she is express it. That's all it is. It's not that you're a kid. It's not like she's treating your five. It's not like she thinks you're helpless. She's just hoping for your wellbeing and who is that actually a nice kind of thing where someone beautiful thing. 'cause she's she's loving you need someone cares about you. They're really hoping you're okay. Yeah so when. I could adopt that different perspective. It wasn't an aggravation anymore. It was just the was just mom. She's just hoping okay. Thank you thanks mama. Totally fine totally safe. No harm here. i'm fine how are you doing it. didn't it literally didn't bug me anymore. When i could make that shift. So when i was married my husband was an acts of service guy and he used to like looking back as an adult. Now he really did a lot of things and he did a lot of really good things and he used to take care of everything like you took care of all the details. I was like a child. I didn't pay attention to any details. He did it all he did. All the work. And i couldn't and i was sitting there selfishly. Criticizing him for not giving me the attention insects and love that. I thought that i wanted. And i was so busy being in this critical space of neediness that i couldn't see that he was actually loving me tremendously because you would not put that much work into somebody unless you loved them and he was he was working and he was working he was doing and he was showing me. He loved me in the only way that he knew how i was too wrapped up in my criticism to actually feel it. And if i had simply shifted just a little bit. I would have felt this. I wouldn't have felt alone. I wouldn't have felt abandoned. I wouldn't have felt like critical and an unwanted and frustrated and on attracted to him because he wasn't giving me the kinds of things that i wanted. I would have been blown away by the love that he was actually giving me that. I was unable to receive. It's because in your mind. Love looked a certain way. And i'm not getting that thing that the way that love looked so i'm not feeling loved. Yeah yeah yeah at to bring that back to sexual new year's resolutions is. It's not uncommon for people to feel. I'm not getting sex. I don't feel loved when in fact you are loved. You're just not having a lot of sex right now and a lot of time. Sex is a dynamic that is a completely different dynamic than than love. Yeah totally different thing. You can love someone dearly and just absolutely adore them and not have sex with them. Totally different thing. Yeah so i would love to continue this discussion In terms of eliciting more sex but out for today. yeah to our listeners. Rewind this podcast. Go back to that. Exercise at fred did I i'm skeptical of that stuff. But i felt. I felt a shift just within those few minutes if it can do something for a cerebral guy like me where i can feel a shift and i believe that it can do something for you. Just allow us to be there. Don't try to think through what just have the experience. That's exactly what my instructions were in the beginning. It was participate. Don't think about this. Don't sit there disconnected and disassociated analyzing it just participate in it. And i don't find. Is that if you do the same thing with life and you participate in life instead of simply observing. You're going to have a lot more fun.

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548 Champaign Aviation Museum

Airplane Geeks Podcast

1:32:46 hr | 2 years ago

548 Champaign Aviation Museum

"This is the airplane. Geeks podcast. Hurry, Mr. educate and inform. You explore and expand your passion for aviation and entertain you little along the way this episode. We look at the champagne aviation museum in Ohio their restoration work, the volunteers working on the aircraft. And how they see the role of an aviation museum in the news. We look at seven three seven safety cards that are confusing. Some passengers the scaled composites model for zero one flight attendant trip brokering while air ending operations and the 2018 eighteen Collier trophy winner. We also give some firsthand impressions of the twenty nineteen sun and fund fly in and expo. It's all coming up right now. Welcome to the airplane. Geeks podcast. This is episode five hundred forty eight of the show where we talk aviation. I Mex flight in joining me. I is max trescott. He's host of aviation. News talk podcast. He's the two thousand eight see if I of the year, he's an expert on the Cirrus aircraft mex- west where we're back from Sunan fund. Well, I'm not back. But you're back. You know, I was thinking you said that I was joining you, and I was thinking no that was last week. I spent all week with you. How could I mean, we're now thousands of miles apart again? As we are. But you're back home. And I'm on the way home indeed nice to be back here with you again. Yes. Absolutely. He and also with this is David Vanderhoek, our aviation historian who was not at sun fun this year. I david. That's right. I was not it's unin front. Looks like everybody had a great time. It was nice having a week off to be honest. So but looking forward to a good show tonight. Yeah. Now, I think you all listening may have heard the the last episode here what we did was when we were at sun and fun myself and max trescott and launchpad Missouri, and rob Mark got together, and we recorded a show on sun and Fun Radio. So of course, that was broadcast live on the sun and fund AM radio station as well as over it live ATC dot net. And so it is we took the the recording in just slapped an opening and closing on it put it up in the feed for you all to to listen to and max trescott, you you had a I thought an interesting observation after we did that which I agree. With concerning how it felt to have that group together. Boy, I don't remember the specific observation, but boy, it was great. Great fun. I really enjoyed you know, sitting across from you and Robin the launch pad, and it just what was the operation. I made. Yeah, you were saying about how especially with respect to arrive who we haven't had on the on the show in the same capacity for quite a while. And how it was just it was just like old times. Right. We just slid right into it. And felt like we never never been away for any length of time at all, right? In fact, the I saw rob less than a year ago. But I have not seen you for seven years. And yet, you know meeting up with you it was like, oh, yeah. It's Maxine we talk every week. And it didn't feel like we hadn't seen each other for seven years. Yes. Yes. So we'll we'll talk more about signed fund a little bit later in the in this show. He, and we have some other recordings and interviews and. Things that we will provide to you all listening in the future in the not too distant future. So you can you can look forward to that. But like, I say, we'll talk about side and finding a little bit more coming up but first introduce our guest, it's Amy brower from the champagne aviation museum in Urbana, Ohio. Amy is the well, she does public Amy you do public affairs donor relations education sounds like you're sort of person behind the scenes that does almost everything that would be. Yes, let me say thank you very much for inviting me to be part of your podcast now, I ran into the well, yes, I ran into Amy how long ago was that a month ago. Maybe something like that. After I had been at the air force museum in Dayton. And in looking for a place to. To grab some food that was more or less on the way home. What did I do? Well, we dipped into the eat at the airport the hut com. Site found Grimes field airport in that has the airport. Cafe and also notes the the museum right next door. So actually me when I ride even though I was hungry. The first thing I did was head right over to the museum. It's a it's a spectacular place. It's a it's a renovation factory as much as it is a museum. Yes, actually within the next month, or so it will change even more as the seventy two hundred square foot workshop will open so all of the tools and most of the active projects like the wings and the bigger things will move over there. So I actually will get to begin to start putting together more of a museum atmosphere in that larger building. Yes. Because that was under construction when. Here sounds like they moved along pretty quickly. Because I I guess I wasn't expecting it to come together that this quickly. But that's fantastic. That's great. Yes. They broke ground in early November of last year. And it's it's a basic hangar building. There are no frills that I also surprised at the speed because you mentioned the air force museum. It takes some fifteen years to build a new building. I guess that's the difference between, you know, civil engineer or you know, defense whatever you wanna call it and actually private contractors. Right. All right. Well, we're going to have a great conversation with Amy learn about how you how you build a b seventeen bomber in some other exciting projects that they have going on. But first we're going to talk a little bit about the aviation news from the past week, or at least some of it will probably go through this always say this sort of quickly. If for no other reason in the fact that I don't know if if max t is tired is I is exhausted. It is. I am. I don't know if we can talk too long about the news, but we'll give it a shot. So why don't we get started? With the news is everyone ready ready from the west ready in Philly. I ari. It comes from this is insider dot com. Passengers on Southwest Airlines thought they were flying on a Boeing seven three seven max after confusion about their on-board safety cards. Interesting interesting how how could on-board safety cards confused passengers enough to think that they might be flying on a grounded airplane. I can tell you because I flew southwest Florida in back, and I saw exactly the same thing on my way out there. And I had exactly the same reaction initially until I read a little further of some of these people didn't understand that. There's a different a difference between the seven three seven eight hundred and the seven three seven max eight and they both share a common a safety briefing car to the back pocket of every seat. And so when I first collapsed at it. I saw seven three seven max eight, and I thought what the what the what the heck and. I kept staring at open it looked around. Okay. It also says above that seven three seven eight hundred. I think a lot of people didn't notice that that that's going to do a listed and it caused a little bit of panic. A lot of tweets on Twitter and a lot of posts from concern. Passengers it seems like under more normal circumstances. More fortunate circumstances, I guess probably most passengers wouldn't have any idea. Well, that they're even on a seven three seven, let alone dash eight hundred versus max ater max nine, but the result of all this. Everybody's quite aware of of these airplane designations these days, but I don't know. I don't think that would be the case otherwise now, it's unfortunate. There's an interesting picture. That's also in this new story, and it's a shot from a helicopter or drone or whether appears that shot from a couple of hundred feet. And that shows grounded Southwest Airlines seven through seven max aircraft on the tarmac. What they call these southern California logistics airport in Victor, Cal, victorville, California, and I count twenty four southwest jets all park next to each other. My recollection is that they have the largest portion of the seven three seven Bax fleet that's out there. And I know it's on the order of a few dozen. So I don't know if it's, you know, twenty four thirty six or forty eight, but certainly this picture shows more than half of all south west grounded aircraft in one place. Yeah. I mean, besides the tragedy of the loss of life, which is in and of itself pretty pretty horrific. I don't know the the the pain the difficulty that Boeing and others are going through is I is really significant. And I mean, I I don't think anybody is clothing over the fact that Boeing is in such this difficult situation. I hope it doesn't last too long. But we seem to be saying more and more increases in the time at the fleet might be grounded. It's just I don't know. It's just it's just really unfortunate. Yes. There was a story today that American Airlines announced that they're extending their groundings out through the first week in June. I can't remember June fifth or something like that. So obviously, even the airlines that have all these planes. Don't know for sure when they'll get the final fix. From Boeing in southern just increasing, you know month by month, the the date when they're gonna bring these things back in the service. Yeah. Yeah. Amy de run across people that have concerns about flying commercially in in general or any kind of reactions at your picking up on I haven't I don't really move and those crowds. I guess so no the first mention I heard of it was today when I was meeting with the National Park Service. We were discussing the fact that I'm getting a presentation ready to go to Boeing to see if we can get some funds since we've got four Boeing aircraft in Champaign aviation museum, and the comment was made. Well, it's probably good time for them to be, you know, feeling more philanthropic. Yes. Yeah. How that's interesting. How receptive? Do you? Find companies, you know, the manufacturers in terms of supporting the museum. That has their products. I it must vary. A lot from one company to the next. Well, I know how generous they've been in the national museum the United States Air Force. The signs are all over the place to be honest champagne has not truly approached bowing to this point. And so they are top of my list. I like to go big or stay home. So again because the b seventeen is one of their icon ick aircraft aircraft in genders a lot of emotions, and it was called the flying fortress and appropriately that aircraft could take a lot of abuse and still bring most of its crew home as it did many many times during World War Two. Aircrafts that I know you don't have in the museum is a scaled composites model for zero one in. I wasn't terribly familiar with this. But I guess. Is ABC reports in secret airplane stops at F B O? This is aircraft made kind of a bit of a public appearance. I don't know if that was intended or not I love this story scaled composites for a one is a drone demonstrator max. Yeah. I it's got the shape of the Lambda weighing the v tail, but it's optionally manned if I flew in twenty seventeen and it's been I guess the best way to describe it as it's been conspicuously out in the open. But nobody really knows what's going on and it stopped the PO because it was on its way transiting to Pawtuxet river to I guess can't as it was described by somebody the petting zoo, kind of look and feel to it. But yeah, I can you can imagine. A stealth prototype. Pulling up to your local FBI say fill it kind of. We might be a little bit of JAMES BOND flying the Beatty. Five Jay up to the gas station to fill it up. So we don't really know what it's who owns it other than skills composite built it. But it's a demonstrator, but it's got technologies that we probably don't know about and it was done on cheap. Yeah. I thought wasn't part of our reportedly. One of the objectives of of this aircraft was to create a demonstrator that had a a low production cost. But it there's an article it's an older article from maybe from last year in in Defense News that it has some dimensions for this Makati. Saw that one. I did I've got it up right now. I was kind of intrigued by the similarities between it and the Cirrus type rated in it is a single engine aircraft. And of course, it's got a v tail so that the thrust doesn't burn off the vertical stabiliser, the traditional attell configuration of most airplanes. It's got a little more power than the Williams engine on the Cirrus jet. That's round oh, just under fifteen hundred pounds of thrust this over three thousand pounds of thrust from Pratt and Whitney engine, and it'll go mach point six point five, and I kind. Guess that it was single engine. When I I saw the note that said flight aware had tracked it at two hundred thirty nights. And I thought met doesn't sound like two engines yet surprisingly the wings fans only thirty eight feet, which means it with your radically fit into a standard t hangar. If someone wants to pick one of these things up they should be able to fit it in most any hanger airport. Yeah. Yeah. And you you might want to take a look at the show notes for this. Because there's some there's some photos in there. There are actually a couple of videos out there as well. And we'll have links to all that in the show notes. You want to get a look at this for a one scaled composites plane, and Mr. trescott, why is he engine intake on the top of the few slides and bled out through the tail? Let's see how military you think? I have no idea David go for it infrared signature. Yeah. Of course makes sense. If you go back to the F one seventeen the v tail of the one seventeen and the beaver tail were designed to reduce the infrared signature. For a slow moving drone or you a s like the avenger or any of the new unmanned combat air vehicles. They have intakes above the few slides to lower their infrared profile and the V tails, reduce the signature from the ground and protect. So it's not really era dynamics as more as far as the military is concerned. It's less about aerodynamics and more about infrared signatures to minimize raider across section makes total sense since all those greater a radar units on the ground looking up might as well put the the messy inlets on top of the airplane. All right moving on aero, news dot net. United warrants flight attendants against illicit trip. Brokering for some I read that I thought it said tip brokering, no is trip brokering in the airline has warned flight attendants that they need to stop the practice of trading or choosing flights that they'll work when there's some compensation involved, and I guess you United is serious about enforcing that prohibition. I guess I guess max. It's a prohibition in their policies. I think these kinds of trades have always happened to some extent. And I don't believe, you know, the airline has a problem. If to flight attendants decide, hey, I'm gonna swap my trip for your trip problem is that apparently flight attendants who have seniority are able to bid and get really nice trips. Those would be ones that allow you to pack your hours into his few days as possible. So that your home? More days out of the month. And since those are valuable commodities, apparently they've actually been selling these, you know, desirable trips to their less fortunate colleagues who have less than seniority, but with still like to be home, you know, more days out of the month. So yeah unite has kind of stepped up and said, let's not do that. I I'm sure this will shut that down. I guess for a period time or maybe drive. It deeper underground, I don't know. And some more news on. Wow. Air in in some ways are our favorite budget airline. Of course, we had schooling Mogensen on the on the show the CEO of. Wow. Air some time ago. Wow. Air has ceased operations that happened about ten days ago in lift a lot of stranded passengers though, some of the other airlines stepped up and really were very helpful by coming up with kind of emergency fe- special fares for people who were stuck at airports needed to get back home. And couldn't because they're who out tickets were now, essentially useless. So it's great that the airlines can help each other out with when things like that happen. I did notice just a day or so ago that school he was quoted as saying that he was looking to get while back up and running again. So we'll see how successfully is on that we've been watching this airline scaleback considerably. Over the last few months as they were starting to have cash flow problems. Of course, they weren't able to fix that soon enough. I'm guessing it would take a major cash infusion. And you know, I'm a little skeptical that having watched it fail under reasonably good management that somebody would might be willing to sail share. Let's roll the dice. Again. Here's you know, tens and twenties millions of dollars to to have ad again. So we'll see I mean, I think it just tells us that the long-haul discount airline models, you know, fraught with problems. Yeah. And also my perception of guys like school who start an airline is there. Not of the personality. Type that's likely to have a setback or failure. Then pack it up go home. And that's the end of it. And I'm sure we'll see him come back in some form or another whether it's Styler airline or something else in. Aviation. You know who knows? But I think I don't think he's done yet. You know, I think you're right. And it's probably premature me to kind of say, hey, it's not likely to work out. You're right. There are numerous as serial airline entrepreneurs. I was listening to podcast recently about David needle men who had started a jet blue. And is now off starting to get another airline. So yeah, I think when these people get airlines in their blood, they they have difficulty stopping they just want to keep doing it. Yes. Yes. All right, one one more story. We talked about the call your trophy, some episodes ago. This is of course, the Robert J Collier trophy. That is presented by the NA the National Aeronautics association each year. And what was it max, you you kind of characterize it as what the Nobel prize or something like that of aviation very much. So yeah, though, it's an American prize. Definitely. So it's only going to go. Typically to couple that's got some connection with aviation in America. But beyond that, the I think it's a good analogy a lot even even the folks at NASA will refer to it as the Nobel prize of aviation, and I think it's kind of interesting that you know, we we have had our picks in the past and at times a different host here airplane. Geeks have correctly picked who the winner was. I think we got a big goose egg on this one. I don't think any of our host to pick the winner. So go ahead. Tell folks who it is. That's right. This was the the auto g Cass system, the automatic ground collision avoidance system, and they said this team, quote, successfully completed a rapid design integration and flight test of critical life saving technology for the worldwide f thirty five fleet. So David auto G casts that that was something that like he'd Martin developed. I believe in conjunction with the US air force, the f thirty five jay-paul the joint program office as well as NASA and the defense safety oversight council kind of a team effort, and it started with the f sixteen program, the sixteen was the first moment the ground with the G caste system, and basically it. My brain just turned the mush co. It's like a collision avoidance system. Well, it it it's to prevent purpose flying into terrain. What's the proper term max trescott that I missing control flight is. Yeah. Control flayed into see fit. Yeah. What he said controlled flight into terrain. So I mean, it it. It's an alert system that the aircraft recovers earlier than normal pilots. Should they lose control of the aircraft in there might be a terrain thing? So it was very successful in the in the F sixteen program, and they quickly moved into the F thirty five program. I got to admit it's kind of nice that they picked the safety program as for the war, not just technology development. But in this case the safes live, and there is at least one I think maybe a couple of videos out there. It will put a Lincoln this show knows to one that's auto GECAS, say's unconscious f. Sixteen pilot, and this is some declassified US air force footage. It's kind of dramatic. I I don't it it show. You're looking at the at the, HUD. I think I guess that's what you're what you're looking at in this. You're looking through the HUD. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. And so I don't know what all that stuff is in the. Trescott probably understands fourteen times much of that as I do. But but in any event, I guess the pilot the sixteen pilot is is unconscious and for I don't know what reason, but and as apparently about to impact and the to the ground, and you can hear the voices of others on the radio become I think increasingly more concerned, and then I guess what we're seeing is system takes over and saves the pilot saves the plane. What's remarkable is if you look at the L Timet, which is in the right hand side, they were operating somewhere around fifteen thousand feet, and he went from fifteen thousand feet down to five thousand feet in literally just a handful of seconds. I mean, he was going down extremely rapidly. And I suspect that they had just performed some type of maneuver which pulled a lot of G's that caused the pilot to go on conscious, and he probably would have been. Dead had the system not kicked in and level the aircraft off and then started to climb it back up. So I think it's a excellent choice. And it's just an example of how some of the new software driven kinds of safety systems. We have out there are really enhancing safety in in aircraft. I see this all the time in the Cirrus aircraft that I fly fly with the envelope stability protection. Which for example, if you start to Bank over to forty five degrees. The stick will in movie back to about thirty degrees. Or if you pick up too, high it'll pull forward to prevent you from stall and things like that. And these are all new kinds of things as early generally Asian in the past seven or eight years, but you know, all these little things make a huge difference. And by the way, I just because I was go ahead. Say I dove tail off of that all of those little things make a huge difference. It's not a very far removal thing from avoiding flight into terrain as an aircraft avoiding a stall automatically. Yep. Yep. So I mean, I it's interesting that this is a very successful program. And then we have the Boeing max, which has got kind of the same intention to override the pilots, and that has catastrophic effects. So it goes both ways, I guess it's kind of interesting because somewhere acronyms camps and an m s I went in. I pulled up the list of collar trophy winners for the past ten years because I was thinking it's been a while since there's been a a military contractor who was wanted. Sure enough. I was right on that back. The last five six years it's been either things like the Cirrus division, which one last year blue origin, which is a space related thing before that was the NASA GPL dawn mission, which was the the one that I voted for when I was on the on the selection committee back in two thousand fifteen the Gulfstream prior to that and all the way back to twenty thirteen is when the David room of this one northbound Northrop Grumman. X forty seven b was the winner of the caller trophy. All right. Let's talk about the she got really airplanes the champagne aviation museum. Now, I'm so glad Amy was able to to join us when I walk into that museum. So there's a a lobby area. Let's call it there. And they're actually a few interesting things in there, including that. There's a the ball turret is in the in the lobby right? Amy. It isn't since you were there. The extra be seventeen engines now in the lobby is well, yes, I'm remodeling. It's going to have its engine note along with it. So that you can push the button and hear what it sounds like. Oh, I like that. I like that a lot. So there was nobody the lobby when you know when I was there. So I sort of pushed open the doors into the main hangar area and. It was amazing. I mean, you see a lot of aircraft there. Then we'll we'll talk about about some of those and you also see a b- seventeen which is in. Well, I guess two major sections right now, and you see many many people in their fabricating parts, the semblance components doing all kinds of restoration work. It's an active shop, so Amy tell us a little bit about if you could sort of the origins of the museum of what what it's beige your mission is give us sort of the background on the museum. Well, it's one man's dream. So in the summer of two thousand five Tom Riley, brought the b seventeen liberty bell up to Grimes field foreigner show, and was of course, selling rides and local businessmen and private pilot Jerry Schiffer purchased a ride and was just entrenched with the experience and was also struck by the enthusiastic support from the town. It was like the entire town of Bannon's rounding areas was out to experience this be seventeen historic World War Two aircraft up close. And as it turned out. Something went wrong, and I beg your pardon. I can't remember what it is. But the liberty bell ended up staying for a couple of weeks while repairs were made. And So Jerry shift forgot to have a lot of conversations with Tom Riley and the rest of the crew that accompanied the liberty though, so a little. Bit later on maybe a month or so Tom Riley called the airport manager grinds because he had another project another b seventeen g project that he purchased parts including the fuselage, and he asked the airport manager, if she happens to anyone who might be interested in purchasing this kit, basically to build this armor, and that's how it happened. It was you know, within two weeks they had signed the contract agreement. Now, the sad part to this story is that November twenty ninth of that very same year the first shipment parts Rives at Grimes field. And Jerry Schiffer has taken off on a ski trip to Montana in his Cessna four twenty five conquest, and he crashes near Belgrade Montana and is killed. So he doesn't ever see the completion of the beginning of the completion of his dream. And so. The widow and the family decide that that's going to be his legacy that they're going to see this project through. So the shipments continue to arrive, and they put them in a hangar there at Grimes field and the family business purchases the contract, I guess, you know, from some sort of follow through his from Jerry's will assume ING and then late in two thousand seven they decide they wanna create a flying seem around this be seventeen restoration project. So in two thousand eight granted that five one c three status by the IRS. And and also in two thousand eight was when the Schiffer family donates, the funds to purchase the b twenty five the champagne go, and so that becomes the seconds asset flying. Well, it's the only flying asset, but the second aircraft and to the museum inventory, and then two thousand ten they built the building that you walked into. And so it actually, you know, they move into their official home from the hangar over on the Grimes field. And now as I said earlier, they're going to be opening the seventeen hundred square foot workshop, which will be nice because I don't know if you call or not max, but the wings are hanging on the wall there on this. There are several new cells. I think they're four sales because we're building the sells for the liberty bell at the same time because she had the fire and her engine. It's quite the story for someone like me who's more interested in history. And of course, I specialized in World War Two history in the Cold War and my college career to follow this journey. How this this comes about? I mean, the volunteers in this museum are simply extrordinary the things that they're doing. And what happened was they found that they needed to buy all sorts of parts, you know, they've got these pieces, but they're missing a lot. So it's like this elaborate, jigsaw puzzle. That's missing many pieces and the parts are very expensive. They're costs prohibit. Give because no one's making them, or, you know, salvaging them, or, you know, going up to recover them from crash sites. So in new project manager joins the museum in two thousand eight just as they're thinking, they need to buy tools expensive tools to be able to make these parts, and he actually teaches and trains the volunteers. How to make the tools so that they can then make their own parts. So it starts with the fact that they found a radio room that they had pulled out of the water. So they take it completely parts. And while they're at it. They make two copies of it. So that then they can they're not technically permitted to retail these parts because they don't hold the patent American Airlines holds the patent for the Boeing B seventeen design. But they they're through donation made to the museum. So the the next clever step is they go to the Smithsonian and purchase the, Mike. Proficiency with the complete set of blueprints for the b seventeen g they pay to have them digitized of all on tier takes the burdensome project of completely cataloging every single one of these parts, and I've seen the book there's a lot of parts. So now, there's they're completely digitize. So they're on computers. He can look whatever part you need and print out the sketch for that. And then they end up selling complete sets these blueprints to other be seventeen owners. So they basically recoup the costs the initial cost of buying the microfiche and having to Gitai st- there's twenty five thousand plus of these drawings for these parts. As I was walking through in having some conversations with some of the volunteers who were fabricating as parts of Massembe's. I I asked that question. I said, how do you said, you don't have the original prints or anything, do you? And they said, oh, yes, let, you know, let us show you, and it it's it's just amazing to be able to have that available into look at prince of the originals that that give you all the specifications. And they actually they do when they make usually when they make one they'll make double or triple or quadruple because champion has now become the place for the other b seventeen owners to come for parts. And as there's currently ten of them still flying or was eleven, but again, the liberty bowsman grounded until she gets her noon sell finished and put on its champagne aviation regime is being very fair about the pricing and about the kind of donation that they ask because it's become this. Collaborative sort of effort to keep these bombers these icon ick aircraft flying and sharing them with the public. And as I said earlier, they are there's so much passion and motion that surrounds this particular point. I mean, I see a lot of that in the air force museum, but not to this degree. If that makes sense, tell us a little bit about the volunteers, the kinds of people who are they are the young or old or have backgrounds in manufacturing, or who are all these volunteers. They come from all over we have doctors dentists former FBI agents engineers, we actually have the son of a World War to combat that. We have a Holland native who was retired from the Royal Dutch airforce his connection to the aircraft was as a child operation manna child. How? Where the seventeens drops tons of food over Holland. He remembers that as young lad. So that's his connection course pilots employs pilots around, you know. Army air force marines navy because now we have the new C one. A that's the newest aquisition civil air patrol. We have teachers we have mother's. We have a a young mother with a homeschool loud. I think he's ten drives some Columbus. Now every Friday, and is he's working on the aircraft because you actually have to take a riveting test. You can't just walk up to this aircraft and start doing things because the project managers responsible for certifying every single part mean, he's the one news licensed by the FAA to do. So so it's a it's a very specific process. And I the first thing I made was a Gusset ring Gusset rid wing. I think I said that right? There's three words, and I always get the order they appear missed up. But I literally went to the computer printed out the sketch went in got the medal did all the cutting did all the sanding, you know. And now it's part of the wing, and that is really. I don't know. How to explain that feeling to tell you that? I am now part of that aircraft. Who'd you ever built or create anything like that before? Now, I made a joke I've not ever operated. Power tools other than the drill in my life. And I still have all ten of my fingers. Now, you've got parts on this be seventeen. It's well, she and she is a conglomeration of five other b seventeen right? There was a like a recovery from what was Alaska. Yes. I spoke to that gentleman today. He's a very interesting jonsman. Do you know how that came about? Well, there was a it was a crashed be seventeen in. Yes, right, Alaska. Well, and see you can find the particulars of what they got from the b seventeen. And when it looked like on the website the me being me. I'm like, how did you know? It was there who told you it was there. How did you know you wanted it? So this gentleman was in Alaska visiting his daughter and son-in-law, and he goes to Dorf air force base to get his haircut. And he's in the barbershop, and he sees this gentleman wearing a jacket with the heritage museum patch on it. And so they start talking about museums and Paul at this champagne aviation volunteers name. Tells him about the project they're working on it. And the Alaskan gentlemen says will you need to go out and get this airplane. That's here that's crashed. And so he immediate problem usually goes hires a helicopter, and they can't find it. They're trying to plot it on the mat the cannot find it. And of course, as the explains to me helicopters are very expensive. They're like two thousand dollars an hour. So he comes back and makes contact with a Bush pilot as he calls it and asks him if he's aware of this crash be seventeen in the Bush pilot replies. Sure, I fly over that every day. So they go out they go up. They go out they see the site. And then he goes back to the helicopter because literally it's in the swampy area. So you have to be dropped in. He said the helicopter couldn't land. They literally had to get as close as they could to the ground. And then hop out of the the heat. To hike to the site. And it's it's a really neat story because the entire community including the towel Keaton airport donated so much of their tooling and their time to recovery the helicopter pilots donated the cost of the fuel. So something that was estimated to cost two hundred and fifty thousand dollars actually ended up costing less than forty thousand. Because of the emotional connection that these bombers and gender. It's fabulous. It is fabulous. And so this that particular bomber did not see any combat in World War Two. It was a firefighter and apparently the engine blew up in the pilot managed to land it in Alaska, and I think they've only lost one crew members that was at story, but all of the other aircraft. There's a book called final cut about all the b seventeen and existence book. Surprise. You know, it doesn't surprise you. You know? But let's let's let's go as our friend launch pad would say KiKi, there's two aircraft that I really love. And that's incident in the Fairchild. If you talk about World War Two civil air patrol. The Fairchild is actually the Fairchild twenty four is probably one of the sexiest aircraft from the thirties ever. But the Stinson also are really important aircraft for the war at home. I'm glad you guys are working on preserving that aspect of it. Besides the piece of the bombers always get all the glory. But really cool stuff is things like stint sins. And of course, I'm a fan of see one I have one living in my backyard for all intents of purposes, but MS liberty what I have what I have one living within two and a half miles away from me really at the Delaware valley historic. Aircraft association will grow. They have C one trader. I call her the ugly girl between the two youthful eighties because she's not that attractive not not next to the twenty five in the seventeen. It's not her fault. You and I share the Fairchild I love that aircraft. I'm currently engaged in active argument with one of the chief pilots. He told me that they've already given me my first flying lesson, and they keep trying to get me to come pilot. 'cause there's so few women pilots. Right. And I said only if I get fly Fairchild, I absolutely adore that plane. It's gorgeous it's red and whites and do, you know who belong to our particular one? Mary Pickford and her husband who apparently has made was buddy. He was not very good at flying. It crashed it most of the time. So Tom told me that I would not be allowed to fly that until I had four hundred hours. I said, Tom I'll be dead by then. I told him I said, I won't get my pilot's license you unless you let me fly that aircraft. But at least have you gone up in it. No, not yet. They're working annuals right now. So you need to grovel and get at least get up in it. We have one that comes in. Mid-atlantic air museums World War Two weekend every year that it actually was an official search and rescue aircraft and actually. Drop bombs on a submarine off the coast jersey. So those are the Musee hairstyle did. Yep. They they did it for civil air patrol because our Stinson did our sensens- painted in the solar patrol colors, and it still has the attachment on its wing where it carry the bomb. Nope. The Fairchild also did it believe it or not that too. That's why you come on these shows. But no. But it's. I like. For all of those people out there. I'm gonna preach. I'm gonna lay it on the line. Like, I've told the gang down at this Massoni and every year there are more craft at the house e center than the SR seventy one. And the space shuttle discovery you need to look left you need to look right and spend some time dealing with the little stuff in the corners. Because that's the stuff that you're gonna find really interesting and really loving be seventeen or amazing b twenty five's or amazing H one thousand six is still my heart. But something like a Fairchild or Stinson that. Tells you a story more than probably a b seventeen is probably a good thing. And sounds like you getting quite a collection at or Bala. Well, I agree with you one hundred percents, and this is what I'm trying to. And I'm going to say, I feel like you. Remember the three stooges when he would knock all their heads together. And it would make that coconuts. This if you can imagine it, of course, I'm surrounded by pilots and most of the male, and so I- remind them that our new mission statement that I gave them as touching lives by restoring history. Not touching lies by restoring be seventeen. Yeah. She does. Thank you for saying. I'm gonna bring you with me next time, David. So that you can perhaps make that coconut sound with their pets. It's you know, to I have a background in your museum curation and a good museum has a focus. Unfortunately, aviator museums a lot of times, they don't have a focus and what they get is. Well, somebody shows up with an airplane, and they take it. And then they don't know what to do with it. And it doesn't do that aircraft Justice, and it doesn't help to museum. So all of that. I mean, a good coherent. Curated museum is is great. And what sounds great about? Your museum is to be able to go and watch them restore it. I was last month two months ago now hard to believe I'm out in Hawaii. And they have to be seventeenth swamp. Ghost which they've restored. But you can see the background. You can see the people working you can end young people can get really motivated to. Wow. What's it? Like like, you said, I mean, you popped rivets. That's an awesome experience and kids need to see the, you know, their stem. It's great. But there's also a lot of jobs out there that required a working with your hands and getting a little greasy, and you know, being agrees monkey and all of those kind of aspects that a lot of museums tend to gloss over, you know, nobody's going to restore like the air force museum. Nobody's gonna restore like. National airspace museum. But then again, you hardly get to see what they're doing is far as restoration in this case, you've got the ability to provide a hands on experience, or at least an up close and personal experience. Yeah. Okay. I'm getting off my high horse now. Sorry. No, no, no. You've got you've got receptive audience. Here. I assure you because you use the word museum, and I've told them some aircraft and a building don't make a museum. That's not what makes a museum. It's the story have to tell it's, you know, the education that you're going to provide it is all of those things that make the museum. I agree with you. One hundred percent asked me how many times at the air force museum. The guests come in and women over the fact that the air force museum did not get a real shuttle, and but the model that they have that you can get onto that's full scale. And appreciate the size of the orbiter and look inside. The crew compartment trainer and see all of the switches and the multibillion dollar hygiene station that's worth much more than a multibillion dollar paperweight. That's oh, maybe you, and I are good to have. So. I always talk about the fact that the air force museum was crushed that. They didn't get a real shuttle. But in all fairness there in the middle of nowhere. I as far as excessive -bility and NASA wanted as much punch as possible, and they weren't going to get their first choice because NASM got their first choice, but the shuttle simulator in the crew crew simulator. That's there is is an impressive addition to that hanger and supports the air force mission. You know, and it gives other opportunities for other places to come up with something. 'cause here force museum is the air force museum. It's never it's going to be that way for the till the end of time, it's designed to be a point of reference for all United States, Air Force military aircraft as for as far as air forces concerned since its inception. Plus the enemy aircraft at what? Again. So the shuttle sort of doesn't fall into that mission low, it doesn't you're absolutely right. And thank you for that. Because the air force exited the shuttle program in the late eighties. Yes. Because they weren't big enough to carry what they needed. They went back to the rockets, and but everybody that's one of those icons again, the people associate or recognize quickly. I guess is the word I'm looking. News. But I was actually just I I hate to off the subject max, but I was actually very privileged my first year as on tier there to entertain a lady from NASA who she never really told me what she did. But I do know that she attended every single shuttle launch and landing and still was well known with a NASA, and she would hear the gusts make this comment, and she she would give them an earful. And she actually had I had an amateur photographer take photos at her request of all of the research and development planes. You mentioned the x forty seven, and you know, the shuttle and she took those into NASA NASA was thrilled with our exhibit. And that's a big compliment in my mind. Yes. Well, he is I recall when I was there at the museum there are number of vents that the museum holds and participates in in other locations. I guess you can tell us a little bit about those airshows. Yeah. Yes. Well, the be twenty-five is participating in the living history flight experience, which is a special limited categories traffic at from the IRS which allows passengers and so we all have to go to ground school training in order to be crew three crew and seven passengers. And so basically, she gives that experience of being able to fly and the bomber and retain Lee, we let people on the museum got up into the cockpit or into the sea one eighty or whatever happens to be sitting on the floor at the time this seventeen, but she goes, we'll be going to Tennessee this year to New York. Illinois course, Grimes has its own air show the one place interestingly enough because you mentioned Oshkosh. She does not go is Dayton. She will not be going to Dayton because we're not permitted to let people ride her. So which is kind of disappointment. But but you will be up in in New York at Genesee. Oh, yes. Okay. I'm planning on being there to. Yes. Good. Good. Okay. And I'm hoping Randy's actually working on the annual right now for the c one a I'm actually looking forward to riding in that. 'cause she'll be able to carry a lot of the stuff that we need to bring along with us since most of the Bombay area and whatnot is meant for passengers in the b twenty five so I was kinda looking that's in need are craft actually got to sit sit backwards. I didn't expect that at first. Well, that's because keep in mind. That's what happens when you go down and catapult it also if you were sitting for if you were sitting forward on an aircraft and most boasts carrier onboard delivery aircraft do this the to currently does it the teach do face backwards because when you hit the carrier deck you go forward. You don't really wanna get slammed into the back seat as you hit the deck. So that's why they're always facing backwards. It makes sense. Thank you for explaining that that would make sense because he'd probably not be good for your neck. Would it not really? So it's really kind of exciting because of the the amount of hours. I mean, the volunteers over the last five years put in over one hundred fifteen thousand hours now, it's just since the executive director started having them log in. So that started in two thousand fourteen so who knows how many? Hours from two thousand six to two thousand fourteen were put into this aircraft. But she's the ladies to the point where it's now become fine. Piecework I guess for lack of a better word and without a hangar. We're going to get point. We can't go any further. There's no room to put her wings on. So that's our our our newest sort of challenge. I guess is. And that's why told you Boeing is at the top of my list because the c forty seven that's a Boeing now. They bought just went right on the head Douglas, Donald Douglas. They bought them, right? Yes. Unfortunately, a Boeing forty seven. Yes. Yes. And didn't they buy Mitchell as well? Or is that one of the other ones MO the b twenty five is also Boeing because the Boeing. Purchase North American. Well, North American got purchased and went through and then became part of Boeing so Boeing there are Boeing Mustangs in their Boeing B twenty five and yes, it it's not it's discouraging. Well, nice. Like you. I love the fact I've understand eight twenty six are rare. Is that true, David, they are and and. Really? Well, anybody eight twenty six is they're not really rare. But there as rare there's not as communists to be twenty-five, but they are fairly common as a war bird. And they were and the reason why interesting enough we just tell to your conversation about your seventeen parts be twenty five survived a lot because after the war because they were used as executive transports and trainers. So there were a lot of them that went surplus and then get cut up and scrapped H one thousand six is survived a fight in both World War, Two Korea. And then Vietnam special k which is a b twenty five b twenty six K that was just restored. And was I grant bleep ranch champion last year at Oshkosh fought in Vietnam. But those aircraft a lot of them went into the firebomb our world all you have to do is. Watch always the movie the lead aircraft that gets Mr. Dreyfuss into heaven is an H one eighty six invader that's painted a lot similar to your yellow one. So the firebombers saved the twenty six fleet. So there's there's a lot of those that became Warbirds and got restored. So anything to put Pratt and Whitney or are double wasp in right? Max, of course. Yes. But the I understand the engines for the b seventeen are are all done. They're all overhauled and ready for the wings. Is that right? They are then the cells are the ones that they're working to complete now. And like I said because to are one of them goes down south, so and then we have the extra engine, which I told you is now on the lobby I painted it's container. And we've got I actually came up the idea of rigging some wire around it. So people can actually still touch it. Because again that's mission. Statement. You know, it's about touching these things. So it's it's a pretty piece of equipment. I like it are need to plan a trip to a high. Oh, I think. Do I would love to have you. Because like I said, I need some of that coconut noise. These pilots. They just you know, it's it's about more than one aircraft. It's about all of the aircraft. It's about what they did. And we are so fortunate to have so many World War Two vets over the last several years. Of course, their health is deteriorating that we have one World War at that. Is there every Saturday? He's ninety five years old. He's a tail gunner he completed thirty five missions, he shot down three Germans one of them in ace, and he still drives his own car. He still lives by himself, and he comes in. And just watch him talk to you know, young people is just amazing. I mean, he's a walking talking relic, and it's his favorite thing to do. And my socio at Frank has just finished as of Friday, the tailgunner somebody. So it's all ready to go. It's finished. He was restoring that because his father was a tail gunner who was shot down in France and became. POW for a while said that was why he had been working on that particular project to that's this is kind of the flavor of this museum that I got when when I visited well that plus is it turned out. I was I was there around lunchtime. And everybody decided they were gonna hit off to that that airport diner that kind of drew me to the to Urbana in the first place, and they invited me over, and we all we all had a nice lunch together. But it's just this. There's this feeling of participation of sort of a communal passions something like that that that's what I found when I went to that museum. Just and just randomly started talking to people I ran across. I mean, including you, Amy and and others as well. It just has a completely different field from any other museum that I've walked into. I think that's a good way to put it. I mean, it does and the engine new Idi in there. For example, he treating is a very expensive process. I'm sure you're all aware of that. 'cause you're all airplane experts, and they were spending thousands of dollars on hey, treating while we have a heat treating oven, but it's only four foot oven. So if you're thinking about those long wing spars is at term. Okay. So one of the volunteers figured out. He takes and cuts the medal. He rolls it into roles. Almost like a cinnamon roll he heat treats, it they made molds, and they have forty five minutes to unroll it mullet, and saving thousands of dollars just that kind of ingenuity that you know, commitment that investment in this project. It's just amazing to me. But you know, what they think up, and they're actually he's shown me parts of the aircraft. That are actually made better than the original aircraft is on. I looked at him. I said you can do that. He's like, yes. He's like, yes. Because we'll be flying. We want it to be more sturdy. So where the two pieces of few slush come together. Max, you know, with their apart right now, there's an extra they put an extra metal like lip. I guess relaxed better word so that when they attached together it will be reinforced so where can our audience? Learn more about the museum. Well, come visit because that's the best part, and you might get to build something. Otherwise, it's it's the website champagne aviation museum thought org. So there's a YouTube. There's a live feed. Right. Yes. So and of course, donate because I much would like to have I call it her room because sorry, David. But you know, it's it's about time for those start thinking about those wings being put on her. And that that would let the eight twenty six come inside too. Which is also on my list. I hate to see them outside like that. So we would have room for the ADA come inside. And and get worked on. And also I was very excited that they let me convince them to start working on the forty seven. We can actually get her back in the air faster than we can get the b seventeen finished which is great cool. Very well, really interesting conversation. Amy brower. I'm I'm glad I related to the museum. I'm glad that that we met that I met you that you were able to to come on the show and kind of spread the message of what the champagne aviation museum is all about. So thanks so much for that. Thank you for vitamin. I appreciate meeting. You interesting. Gentlemen. Especially david. I think David is most interesting gentlemen among us. But what do you think? Trescott? I can't disagree. Okay. All right again. Amy, thanks so much. Thank you. All right. Well, the big I think the big topic on what's up with the geeks is her adventures at sun in fund max, trescott, you you've been a number of times before over the years for me. It was the first visit the sun and fund, and I have to say it was really a an amazing event. Got to meet the lots of folks, some of them new folks that I didn't know before some of them people that I knew but had never met before. And and I got David I went flying. I went flying in the pistol motor glider, which was really really exciting. An interesting experience. It's really something you know, when you. When you leave the earth under prop power get up to two tude in turn off, the motor Feser, the feathers, the prop and and just glide from there. It's kind of it's kind of a neat experience in Matthew up in that Pippa stroll after I did as well. I did. Yeah. That's really fascinating craft. It's the CENA's. And of course, Pippa stroll has just sold her thousandth the aircraft's doing fabulous there. And what's to me was moten? Most noteworthy about this aircraft was the exceptionally long wings. They're about a fifty foot wingspan, but you can pull off or you know, with a tool you can remove the outer five feet of each of the wings, which brings it down to something like thirty nine and a half feet, which would just barely put it into a standard forty foot hangar. So I thought that was kind of interesting design, which makes the aircraft a little bit more useful. For people. But what was amazing was with those long wings when you shut off the engine. It has twenty seven to one glide ratio compare that with a Cessna one seventy two which is about a seven to one CLYDE ratio. And boy, we came down really slowly one point. We were probably I don't know maybe six seven eight miles away from the lakeland airport that four thousand feet in the pilots. Oh, yeah. We'd have don't troll gliding to their, you know, typically, I'm used to look in a point that I can glide to it's probably, you know, somewhere with a forty five degree angle down from the aircraft in this case. It was practically on the horizon. So that was pretty remarkable. Yeah. Yeah. When when I was at the the pilot we did a a to g wing over and then he handed draws over over to me. And I I was the only the only fear. I had is that he was going to have me do a wing over like that. Like, no one was going to do that. I was not not ready to do that on my own. But but otherwise, you know, did some anew bringing glided around and in in did pretty well. So it was really really cool really wanna thank Pippa stroll for for giving us that opportunity. Another thing we got we got to meet Nikki now, if if you've only started listening to airplane geeks relatively recently last year to you may not know, but Nikki was a student pilot, and she sent us reports to sort of document her progress towards getting a her pilot's license. And so it was really fabulous to to meet to to meet Nikki, and she's continued her flying. She's she kind of lives for flying these days, she's active in the civil air patrol in doing all kinds of things. So she was volunteer as part of the civil air patrol presence. They have have cadets, and and others that. What would you that man, the runways or they provide, you know, safety for the aircraft coming and going in? I don't know if you knew this but son fund presented Nikki with a safety award because it turns out to last year. There was an incident where a guy was approaching a spinning propellor in apparently didn't realize what was happening and what was going to happen to him. And. Yeah. And and Nikki is sort of sprung into action. And she says the the people around that witnessed this say that this guy came within about three feet of the propeller, and if Nikki hadn't gotten there and done, which he did that, you know, he he'd he'd be dead. So they gave her an award for that. So that was pretty cool. Wow. That's. Remarkable story. I had not heard that. Yes. Yes. It was out towards the end of the the not the war. Yeah. I guess the Warburg area. But in fact, she showed me some some plastic fencing that they now have up there to provide a barrier just because of that incident. So the you know, they made that change, but it was great great being at the the the radio station. Lot of aviation podcasters a ton of aviation podcasters. Were there got to meet a lot of great great folks, the va Larry's, both both of the Larry's lots of other place, lots of other people Dave abbey, and this there's so many people that it was just a great experience. I had terrific time. You know, one thing that because he kept asking me because of my first time at sun and fun kind of what my big impression was and one of my characterizations. I think of. The experience overall is that I love attending weekend airshows and typically go both days, but still even over two days, you you feel kind of constrained by the schedule. You know, if there's something going on, you, you know, that you want to catch you've got to be there because that's it. That's the opportunity whereas with a week long show. It's it's a much more relaxed different kind of atmosphere with with the blue angels performing on four different days. If you're in the middle of, you know, a great conversation with somebody in miss the blue angels performance. It's it's not a big deal because they're flying again tomorrow, and you could just go then I thought that really changed the sort of the pace of the, you know, of the time there, and the the, you know, your Billy to do many, many different things and still be able to do everything. It's a really nice show. Oh, I think what one of the nice things about it is it's a little bit more compact than the larger show to the north which makes it a little bit easier to to get around. I found that I was carrying times a fairly large pack because I was giving presentations every day, and you had to get from the parking lot to where I was giving presentations, and it was pretty easy to hitch a ride almost every every leg of the way with either golf cart passing by or with the with the trams. And so I would say there's a little bit less walking than at the at the really big show. In fact, was one humorous incident. I know you recall the very first day that I was there you rob market, and I were going to meet for lunch at s in the sun and Fun Radio location. That was going to be around twelve fifteen and I was worried that I might be a few minutes late, and I saw golf car to go flying by me, which came to a stop because there was a cart blocking in front of it. So I'm behind the golf cart. And I said, hey, can I have a lift and the driver turns around and goes. Yeah. And then he did a double take and looked around Max's that you, of course, it was rob Mark. So we were both rushing to meet each other. But we ride at exactly the same time. Pretty funny. But you know, I I found it was fun running into people that are from California that I don't see accepted places like funded other large airshows. So that's pretty funny in it's kind of interesting that, you know, some of these people don't live more than twenty thirty miles from me. I never see him out here. I see them out there. So those are some of the connections. I enjoy making when I'm there I gave presentations every day one day to to seminars was my night flying safety seminar at the other one new one that I've put together called so you want to fly or bias Cirrus. And of course, I mentioned the news talk podcast at the beginning of the seminars had the seminar on Saturday for the Cirrus early on. I said and how many people have ever listened to the aviation news talk podcast more than half the hands went up. I thought I had never seen that before. He usually usually it's just barely half. The hands of heard what a podcast. Is. Thrill that a lot of my listeners came out for that, you know, particular podcasts. Yeah, it's kind of for that particular seminar. So it is kind of fun to run into listeners Lotte listeners, you know, sent me a text and emails and we met up with a few of them and it was quite enjoyable now. Speaking of highlights, there's one that I'm surprised you didn't mention where were you viewing the blue angels on Friday well on Friday for for that particular. Blue angels demonstration I was actually up on the balcony around the top of the airport tower. Oh, I had a command view of the blue angels demonstration. I it was really, you know, it's different. It's a different perspective when you're up high like that for for one thing, you can see farther to the figuratively to the right and left. So in other words after they make a pass over center field. Of course, they continue on and they have to form up or regroup, and you can see a lot more of what they're doing out in the distance out of your out of your your view. If you're down on the flight line watching. So that was pretty interesting. So and you almost out there. Why didn't make it up there? But I wasn't able to stay for very long. We have kind of a comedy of errors. I didn't know that you were headed there. And once I found that you were there I headed over there. And they let me through the gate because I said I wanted to join my podcast or front at the top there. I got up to the. Top. We're looked all over dude. And see you and they said, okay, let someone escort this gentleman back down. Again. I think my mistake was not saying that I was part of the media since we had our our media passes their lo and behold, I could see you because you're on the balcony outside. So it was only once I got back down and had left the gate area that I discovered through their phone call or text message that hey, I was within a couple of few. But the thing that really struck me about the view from up there is that the blue angels, look like they're substantially at eye level. Was that your experience? Yeah. Yes. And and you'll and and you'll quickly learn that the blue angels, don't necessarily look like what you're supposed to look like you're down on the ground. Yes. It is different. They a lot of the Thunderbirds in the blue angels. Okay. This is how dorky I am. And how many times I've seen them is from various other angles other than show center, the formations don't look anything like what UC? So the diamond pass in review they are in a formation that makes it look like the diamond pass in review at show center ground, if you're up high or farther down range or maybe in line with the end of the runway, you're going what am I seeing? You get a different perspective. The angle allusions the allusions that the blue angels and the third of birds play. Yes, I mean, not to take anything away from the, you know, the flying skills. No not. But but but they do do that. Yeah. And I think they do the same with the noise because the, you know, the sound patterns were in some cases, you know, a bit different. So I think that not only do they fly in patterns, and in ways that impacts this or the visual impression of it. But I think they do the same with the engine or another way to put maybe more simply and directly as I think they you know, they sort of throw the exhaust the crowd. So that you know, you get the the maximum affect of the sound of the engines. But yeah that was spectacular. And it looked to me like the towers actually, police location wise, you're probably I would guess at least a third of a mile from from show center. And yet there were many times when all the aircraft were passing each other right there next to the tower was homeless like some of The Moor's looks like they were being put on for the benefit of the traffic controllers. And by the way, kind of estimated that tower was roughly. One hundred twenty feet, so it's a pretty tall tower. And it was a great great, you know, vantage point. Yeah. So as I mentioned before we have some some great interviews I'm still exhausted from the week. And so I can't I won't be able to think of all of them. But few of them, we have the executive director who helps explain that sun and find this is this is a campus where a lot of activities take place throughout the year. This is not a situation where everybody comes in for one week for an air shows and everybody goes home and comes back again one year later, there are significant educational a variety of activities that take place throughout the year. So we we talk about that. I talked with a teenager who in order to fund his flight training created a company and sells related products. So. You look forward to hearing that. And this mother interesting interviews, I ran across a family. They have a family business of doing G A aircraft, primarily not exclusively actually, but primarily g aircraft interior restorations, and, you know, customer interiors, so they, you know, work with the pilot to pick fabrics and pick colors that complement the airplane and in the effect that the pilots trying to achieve and they pride themselves in the quality of their work. But also in being able to turn around quickly. So that the pilots not without playing for too long. So we had interesting conversation with them and a number of others as I said, we'll be bringing those to you in the coming weeks. So what do you think same time same time next year? Same time next year. No doubt about it. I also one of the thing. I know I could go on. I just so I'm still on the high from from this event. So the I drove from Connecticut to Atlanta and the and I spent Sunday night with dispatcher Mike's family. He's got three kids wonderful kids and in the plane would was to fly down from from Atlanta to lakeland Florida for sudden fund in his nineteen sixty three beach musketeer but Mike woke up Monday morning sick as dog he had a fever. And there was no way he was going to be able to to fly. He shouldn't be and be filing. So I said, well, I guess I'm gonna drive the rest of the way to Florida now we were going to camp out with his plane. He had the tent I'm on my way to Florida suddenly now, so I had to stop and buy tent, and I'm thinking you were you were in a in a in a hotel max. But you know. Yeah. My idea of camping. Is pull up the Hilton Eappen? Right up late. So I wasn't really. Terribly looking forward to sleeping on the ground. But you know, what that is a big part of the experience to is the the people you meet to the conversations that happen, the friendships that are created just by living in a campground with a bunch of other people. I it's so I'm not sure if I want to get a hotel next year or if I'm gonna camp next year, but Nevada I will be there. Next year also told the folks of the sun, Fun Radio who are amazing bunch by the way that I'm going to hopefully, become a volunteer next year to help them out and kind of contribute. You back. Some more. That was definitely a fun place to hang out that was really essentially, the main meeting place for for Maxon me when we were there as it was for a number of other podcasters in the volunteers there they've shall better and his team are just very warm welcoming. And we felt like we belong there. So that was it was it was nice. And of course, it's very central location. So it was a good place to to hang out and be in the shade a little bit and have some fun folks to talk with and a place to sit down and things like that. So yeah, it was it was definitely an awesome experience. One of the things that I heard, and I don't know all the details on this. And you probably got this from the director something I had known before. But apparently all of the profits from Sunan fund a plow directly into aerospace education. Yes. Kinds of activities. What what more do, you know about that? Yes. Actually, the the week long son infl- son in fun fly in and expo is the the major source of. Funding for all of these educational opportunities that they provide throughout the year. So it's that's that's how it's viewed. They actually have an you'll hear all this. But they've they actually won an award for the degree to which. And this is this is my terminology. You'll hear the proper terminology in the in the interview. But for the way, they leverage the fly in the air show, and the way they leverage all of the the educational opportunities that that they provide a meal, you'll hear about how many pilots have been created, you know, as a result of this, and, you know, the impact on students from the area, and and so forth. So they've got some recognition and other airshows around the country frequently come to, you know, benchmark son and fund to learn. Yeah. How do they use this great asset to educate? More create more pilots and do all these things that you want to accomplish. So I it really isn't amazing thing. That's that's a great interview coming up. There's one other aspect that things have changed. I hadn't been Sunan fund for probably about six years. And when I was last there presentations, give them by folks, like me work done intents. And I thought that's what it would be like again this year. And I was quite surprised to find that that all of our presentations were indoors most of them were at the place. I was not familiar with and that's the central Florida aerospace academy, and this is pretty remarkable. This is a centrally a high school with a focus on 'aeronautics in aviation. It's a rather large facility. Let's see I think it it was three stories tall lot of classrooms in it. And I was essentially teaching in a classroom how you felt like back to high school. With the, you know, the kinds of desk there in the bulletin boards and stuff like that. So that's a rather unique asset I'm not aware of any other school like this where in the world, but pretty amazing that for folks interested in aerospace, engineering, they can go to a high school. It's geared right toward them. Yes. Yeah. I instead of thinking of of of this as an airport or is a big campground or is lots of fields the way to think of it is it's a campus. It's a campus. It happens to have runways and control tower and schools and a museum, and you know, all of these things so fascinating stuff. The only negative. I would say is connectivity. In many cases, even text messages took you know, half an hour to go through that was kind of a problem. So I bet we have tons of great listener feedback at the geeks airplane, geeks dot com. But honestly, I haven't even looked at it. So for those of you who have written in. Hoping to to hear us respond to your to your emails. You'll have to have to be a little patient as we get kind of caught up with that and get more sleep than we've been having the last in the last week before we close out anything else. So we want to touch on. Well, can I do my what's going on with the geeks? You know, David would pale compares, no go. Go ahead. Good. Mike tweeted out the other day and Mike yet kept me up all night. No, Mike tweet. Well, he was he retweeted the fact that he didn't realize that a certain aircraft that he said someone near and dear to him would know that there was at least fifty seven variants of. And the person you're endeared him was me, and the the aircraft. They were referencing was the C one thirty so Mike I decided to give you a little research project since I was up all night thinking of all the variants. So as as of right now you need to do the following. Hopefully, you're ready to dictate this and writing this down. So these are variants of these are these are, okay. I'll be specific. They are non transport variants of the C one thirty and they are only United States Air Force or navy variants or Marine Corps. There are no foreign variants in this list. Okay. And what's in the list? Well, here's the list. Okay. Here's the variants for all you to research. Mike up the triple C the combat king the combat king to the combat shadow the combat solo combat spear combat. Talent one in two commanded to command solo compass. Call credible sport dragon spirit ghost rider gunship to harvest hawk H C one thirty eight crown Fulton pave pronto pave spectre ski birds spectre spooky stinger surprise package and last but not least fan Albert. Did. You create this list off the top of your head. I mean, you you didn't did you look these up or did, you know these? No, I knew most of them. Yes. Yeah. Double check my other ones. But I think I missed TAC TAC Immo too. So yeah, it's kinda like see see when thirties it's kind of like the same list that you know, name every aircraft Thunderbird, flew and name every aircraft a blue Angels' flow. Yeah. You know? So yeah, that's that's your that's your little research project. Mike, so. Very good. I have I have the thirty or forty books on the on the subject if you'd like to read them. All right. Okay. Well, I think that's that's going to do it for this episode. Maxine some are you going flying tomorrow? Max, oh, I've been flying already today. I had about six hours of flight training, by the way, I just pulled up a tweet that came through a day or so ago in it was kind of timely because I had been teaching about the Sears at sun and fund from at flight notes on Twitter. He tweeted out headed dream that I want a brand new series SR twenty two and max Truscott was helping me transition to it from the warrior. Also, the panel had a built in spread so machine the tag of coffee here someone else replied and said the best part of waking up as an SR twenty two in your Cup. Wonderful. All right. This wrap this up Amy Bauer from the champagne aviation museum. Amy, thanks so much for coming on the show. Why we look forward to seeing you are you going to be up in New York yourself. Good. Well, at least I'll see they're it's not that far for me. I know you all you all should come. And I'll see if I can't wrangle a ride for you. That'd be great. I became for. What you say there? Well, if you ask my axe who's met me he knows that. I can be quite persuasive. Yes. Yes. Yep. Yep. Yep. I've already made my hotel reservation sexually. Well, as I understand it. There's not that many places to stay. So I made sleeping in a tent on the field. Like you did in Florida. Yeah. Actually, I got a sweet or something and rented a floor that would have been great. So so thanks for coming on the show as always you can find us on the web at airplane. Geeks dot com show notes for this episode or there's well, but if you want to go straight to them they're at airplane. Geeks dot com slash five four eight when I was at the museum took a bunch of pictures. So we'll put a few of them in the in the show notes. If you want to send an Email that's the geeks airplane, geeks dot com, and you can find us the best thing to do is. Subscribe to the podcast that way, you won't miss any episodes, and you can do that almost anywhere any of the podcast apps I s or Android. We're we're in there. We're also in Pandora now growing Pandora population of listeners also Spotify as well Stitcher in tune in. He that's tell everybody where they can. Find us online is the C max trescott start with you can find me at the home of the aviation. News talk podcast, where we talk about everything generally, the Asian and that would be aviation news, talk dot com. Just click on contact at the top of the page. Or if you wanna leave a question that will answer on the show. Just click on listener questions. Great in David Vanderhoek. How about you? You can find me on Twitter at DM Venera. You can find me skulking around museums. You can also find me on our slack listener team. Which of course, we want you to join enjoying the party you can do that by sending an Email to the geeks at airplane. Geeks dot com, and you can also find me on the a digestive which we just sort of released a little late. So this checkout this episode? It's kind of interesting we had a very lovely replacement for max this week. So that's right. See you ABD. VDI just dot com. Great in Amy once again, the teller listeners website for the museum would be the champagne aviation museum dot org. Cool, and you can find me linked in just look from X flight also with David at the UAB digest dot com as he said he and with Mary Kirby at Pax X podcast dot com. Are outgrow is by Bruno Mus. Oh, so this is like the advanced notice for the those of you who have stuck with us the whole episode. So I made some interesting recordings of the the blue angels performance. So if you like engine sounds, and if this works, I might have something special coming up, so listen for that, maybe treat that his little teaser. But otherwise our outgrow is by Bruno MS sewn you can find more of his compositions incorporate aviation sounds at Bruno miss own dot com. So please join us again next week as we talk aviation on airplane geese podcast by everybody. Keep the blue side up. Thanks for listening. Fist. Right. A left. Wiegmann day. Mix me a pickup. He went to Derek. You said a kid some clays. Trying to do.

Boeing air force museum David Vanderhoek Amy NASA Cirrus aircraft champagne aviation museum scaled composites Grimes field max trescott Tom Riley Fairchild FBI United States Mr. trescott American Airlines Dayton United States Air Force
189: DROELOE

Back To Back

1:42:15 hr | 4 months ago

189: DROELOE

"This is back backbackers. This is willie joy. Welcome to the show. This is back to back. This is my podcast. How are you happy holidays. Happy almost new year. It's almost twenty twenty one new year on the horizon. I think a lot of us are going to be happy to say goodbye to the current year. And you know twenty twenty one It's going to have its own set of challenges. It's going to be something different. It's always something different but I'm looking forward to facing something new. I'm looking forward to seeing what our world is going to look like post pandemic. I'm looking forward to seeing the music. Industry get back on its feet at some point in the future. I'm not saying it's going to happen right away but it is going to happen and as always you know. I'm i'm working to put myself in place of gratitude. There's a lot of things about twenty twenty that That i am grateful for. We had to close out the year with a really special conversation. I think this is an appropriate one for the last episode of twenty twenty. I've got drew on the show. This week drew up until this point had been a duo vince and high and now drew lewis continuing on as the solo project of vince. But i got both of them on the line to talk about their whole career up until this point you know. They just released their matter of perspective anthology album. That's kind of this period on the end of the sentence that has been there joint project for the last five six years and it's a collection not only of their work up until this point but there's also new songs there's new versions of old songs Kind of interesting updates in new takes on some classics. There's and if you know drew. Lou you know one thing that makes the group special is that it is an audio visual collaboration. Vince was always the audio. Hind was the visual component. And in that spirit the matter of perspective anthology they've also created an online interactive art gallery through their discord. And i believe it's also available on youtube right now and it's it's so cool. I've never really seen anything like this. We talk about it in the conversation but it really is a deep dive into the art behind the project as well as narration from vince. About how the songs were made It's just really cool. You gotta go check it out. So there's going to be a link in the description of this episode where you can go grab the matter of perspective anthology. Go visit the virtual museum. They've created and follow drool-o because This is kind of the end of chapter one of drew and chapter two is just about to start next year and you don't want to mess it so go follow them. You can follow me as well. Add willie joy or add back to back pod on all social media. You can email me back to back. Potty gmail.com the email address but Speaking of discord. If you really want to connect the best way to get in touch with me is to come join the back to back discord and not only. Because i'm in there hanging out all the time and you can just come up and make fun of my haircut or you know whatever you're gonna do. I don't know why i'm jumping to the idea that you're just gonna come in and bully me but You know you could if you want. Because that's where i'm at but if you're not a bully if you're just a nice person we'd love to have you in there. It's an amazing community of people. If you're an artist if you're a musician come share what you're working on. Get some feedback. Connect with other like-minded people. Whatever it is it is all good The community's growing every day and we'd love to have you be a part of it so the link for that also in the description but today is all about drew closing out twenty twenty as they are closing out a chapter of their story as artists. It was really really interesting to get to talk to a duo that is in the process of separating You know when a group does part ways. It's pretty rare that they will sit down and still talk about their project talk about their history their future all that and do it together and yeah it was just beautiful conversation. It was unique. I don't think i've ever had an episode like this. Before hein was in vancouver. I believe somewhere in canada. I'm pretty sure it was vancouver Vince was home in the netherlands. And this is what i'm talking about. We would not have been able to do this episode In two thousand nineteen. Because i would not have wanted to do it not in person and i would have missed out on this awesome conversation and i wouldn't have been able to share with you guys so i'm grateful for all of that but even more so i'm grateful for all of you. The listeners out there the amazing community. That's been supporting the show. Not only through this year but all the years that i've been doing this podcast so anytime you tell a friend to check out the show anytime you put a tweet tags your stories. All of that It really does help us grow. It helps new listeners. find the show All of it. That's not only how we stay afloat. But that is how we grow. And we thrive. It's off of the strain of you the listener and look anytime i see us getting tagged anytime. I see people talking about us. Always going to be replying reposting and just generally saying what do you guys. Because i love to meet the listeners of this show and in that spirit. I hope you love this episode. I think you're going to I really did. I really enjoyed this. So let's get into it right now. This is me and drew back to back. Let's lesko have you guys been doing a bunch of a bunch of press and promo jointly sort of four for the matter of perspective fan theology. It has this been sort of a like one last campaign together pretty much. Well how is that been. I mean that's that's just such an interesting time to you. Know to to sort of say you put the the flag in the ground and say okay. This is our last joint project together Collecting all this work that we've done together over the years and then you sort of get this this little victory lap. I mean stuff like this where you know. You've already said it's done like we put it out. This is what it is and you can experience it. How does it feel sort of then. Go on and talk about it and still be connected in that way knowing that eventually you'll end up going on to your your respective networks steps had to me. It's it's exactly what you say is it feels kind of like a victory lab and one where where i think we both Y'all seek back a lot about how it all started and where What happened along the way. And it's it's it's almost some cases in some cases almost therapeutical but like other word. We've also had some interviews where they just pretty much asks about like. Hey algae's means what is the name. Basically basically asking us to oversight are bio but hey the game game so this is a very very Welcomes fresh breeze. It's also nice to just be able to finally talk about it in its entirety. And there's no secrets anymore. Or like he didn't things are stop. We have yet to announce or anything like that sets. Yes somebody's like. I don't wanna call it a post mortem but it's kind of like yeah. It's it's nice to look back on it and it's not like not asking ourselves. Can we talk about that yet. Right exactly yeah. Can we talk about it. And i've talked to other people about this where it's this funny thing a lot of times in in what we do you work for so long on a project whether it's an album or song or video. Whatever it is you put it out. And it's the culmination of all this work. And you know within twenty four hours is all anyone is interested in is also what you doing next. What's after this you know. And it's there's never time to sort of process the accomplishments to process the experiences that you have right and in some ways it must be interesting. It must be an interesting feeling yet is sort of be able to to step off the the hamster wheel for a second and just sort of take stock of everything. Yeah definitely it's We've we've been pushing ourselves Also like as soon as as something was done we were already thinking about the next thing most of the time. And yeah i i personally feel like little weird neither things. I have all this free time. And i don't really know fully wants to do with it yet right. I mean it's it's not like gogo go for like the last five years pretty much. I guess the question is do you guys like it that way. Does that fit with your personalities. Are you the kind of people where the segment something is don you. You're kinda like okay. What's next let's keep this moving or or it does that pace gang zaidi and you would rather you know. Be able to have sort of more of a measured pace of things. I think for me at least a little bit of both Definitely like the grind of it Most of the time. But yet there's there's been moments when his Aiming towards that we were both just released hired of those older traveling and ben That was the deadline angles of a new team was coming out or something and yet those moments were were little software that you can say. I regret you the same question to you. Man you know in those last five years this project. How does your brain process this kind of a an experience a career. Are you the kind of person who always needs a project to be working on. You need to know the next thing or is it. Nice to to have a little downtime now and then i. i don't know. I feel like i'm super schizophrenic. When it comes to that. Like i some. Whenever i'm in the middle of a project i always think like men after dissension some some time off and then when it gets the point where i could take time off. My mind is like no. You need to keep working where needs to be done but then the question because i have that too and i if i sit for too long i just get jumpy and anxious and and it's not great for me but then i i just i always wonder like. Is that something. That's just been programmed into me because that's you know everyone in the music world. Everyone whether they are not just from social media looking at what everyone's doing it seems like everybody's busy all the time right. Everybody's killing it one hundred percent of the time. Everybody's working their hardest and i think that builds in this expectation of pressure and i don't know i don't know where i fall on. Sometimes i think that's probably healthy healthy competition but then other times i think you know. Why are we all forcing ourselves to be miserable. A lot of the time. Yeah yeah definitely. I fully agree data. Actually it's also interesting to to see how The whole music industry has has grown into something that is so much about like showing signs of life constantly like every of posting. As much as you can also stuff outside of what you actually make in the more better. And i personally sometimes wonder if that is even beneficial to do what it is that the person maze. Yeah it's it's inter-. I remember like when we first started doing the project and kind of like. We're conditions to this thing where we had to just released one song every month I often kinda like look back on that and said cost you know what what changing the in the lake. Music industry has has caused for disting- where artists link. Especially if you're new release one song a month and the is crazy crunch on all the stuff that you need to do and yeah often also questioned. Does that take away from actually making something good in being so active on twitter or instagram. Or whatever like we didn't sign up social media we didn't sign up to be social media influencers. We're here to make stuff and shields accent diamonds. Super country do it. Yes i completely agree with that and especially for a project like what you guys do. Where there is you know. It's it's beyond music right. There's this strong visual component. There's sort of an all encompassing project that you can interact with on multiple levels and and even with all of that. They're still this expectation that no also we need to know about you. Know what you're eating for breakfast and and it is it. I don't know it's just such an odd thing. I don't know why i've been thinking about that lately. Got a more about it. The more on imagine if like isn't the time that frizzes jimi hendrix was alive than disagreements I really wonder what the were linked to the music world would look like in one. It's much harder. To have those towering figures like jimi hendrix in the social media edge right. Because there's something using him in his example you know. He's this sort of mysterious unknowable figure. And you cannot translate into a social media persona. I think that yeah. Yeah because he's the larger than life. And if you're just putting your day to day life out there. I think that's an impossible thing to achieve. I mean there's there's examples like You know someone like rl. grime. I mean he. He doesn't post anything the only time he posed is when he puts out something new basically and he's able to make that work she's be one of the rare i think that's also maybe like Not necessarily like a generational thing but like he. He was already big before the whole edm artists slash influence. Her game started. You know. I think the same would like justice for example are just awful time like those guys are completely off the grid when it comes to social media but such larger than life projects seemed like our grind. But i think that's just like they got to that point or instagram became so important. And i think if you get to that point if yes you got the That point in time dentist. It's not really needed to you. Know i post what you're eating breakfast. Yeah i think it would even be counter effective because that's not how you got known day got known and they would always take away from from what they've built up. I think yeah. I think that's true and i. It makes me wonder about about you guys when you first started off. You know you are in the wake of the edm. And i think because people like to try to categorize things you know a lot of people initially you know group do you in with With trap music or with bass music but then it sort of over. The years became apparent that you know you had aspirations. Well beyond that. And i'm curious you know for you guys. What was the experience like of of really trying to define your own sound define your own identity and carve that path especially at the start when people kinda just wanna put you into one group or another interesting. Yeah definitely. I think one thing that's always kind of from even apparent just with the whole akiem and especially like on the idiom inveighs. Music is that. I felt like we've always been much wrist into that environment because we've never actually like lifted ourselves. I think are like. Edm boom was more like old school. Depth step german-based in in in the badlands We didn't even live like that. That big no no. We didn't go through. That many clubs shows we didn't We were part of any social Environment where a lot of other people were also listening to that kind of music was just where where does the thought to even start the project. Come from then. If you're not sort of you know if you're not going out to the clubs every night or you're not sort of really immersed in that scene from the start you know. How do you come to that music. How do you. How do you land on that idea. Mr karma mr promise was the biggest reason that we decided like. Hey this this thing this weird eight away. A bob kind of beans stuff is actually pretty cool and stupid in a good way to destroy. Yeah yeah we just decided like. Hey let's see if we can get close to that sound released trial. Would what our version with light or sound like and just see happens when it was the big joke in the beginning. Which was i think. It was taken out by mr carmen. Gives you. Yeah check it up. Kick you such. I mean to us. It's such a classic. Oh yeah no. That's that's an amazing. I mean karnak. I think not that. He's under appreciated by. I think he is. He's more influential than a lot of people know especially in the artist community and he has carved out this real unique patented himself from what he's doing. These days is very inspiring disease. Well we so brass band and all that stuff is rate Man did you see. Did you get to catch any of those shows. He was doing with the full band. Mostly they were wild. May i got one of them and yeah it was. It was really interesting. I mean it was. It really just felt light. You are watching a a funk band. I it was like it was very it. Felt very separate from what he is known for which was really interesting. Because it's still the same crowd coming to see him. Does we an interesting experience seeing it like the same trap crowd come to a show like that must be an interesting juxtaposition. What was it. Yeah put the track. Private salve also evolving sensitive. These these kids who may be saw it as a joke Five years ago grew up with his wealth but still love the sound and and and so. I think that there is so much like like a like someone like jd. Back this drummer It's not really travel or anything that related. But i do think that a lot of Jazz influences get back into Trap and you. Bob and stuff and i love it. I don't really know where was go this. No that's all right. I mean. I can connect it back because the car show he. He was basically doing two shows a night so he do this show with the band and then he do a dj set after that so one two in a row. He was opening for himself. Basically and and it was really interesting because the same crowd the whole time everybody stays in the building and It to me. It sort of made the dj more meaningful. Because then you sort of see what's influencing it you know and it's And the crowd was cool. I don't think everyone knew what to make of the live band show but i think everybody enjoyed it. I mean even for you guys. You're live show has certainly evolved over the years. I mean talk a little bit about that. And and wanting to the idea of you know wanting to expand what you do give people different experiences you push your own boundaries while still connecting to whatever it was that people found about you appealed about you in the first place. Yeah it was. It was definitely the the reason for that was a combination of that. We wanted to show something. That was more interesting than Yeah just wishing some on a cbj and jumping around a little bit which is cool. You can make great party by doing that but also yeah we ourselves. Were got a little bored by that Also because For a long time the the sets were were pretty much the same because of the visual aspect of the new. There was on supposed to together ride so you can't deviate too much because you've set up this whole exactly. Yeah this whole choreographs thing none. If you do that like thirty times in a month that it just becomes kind of boring right right. Yeah no matter how much thought you put into it at the start yeah and it was also before we started using semsi technologies have a little bit more flexible so as well for the people who don't know talk a little bit about that. What is that technology. What did that allow you to do. So it's basically and i might actually be very wrong nation. Bear with me It's kind of an audio signal that is only like readable for computer and is linked to attract or to an idea or a track and then track down the is the bridge between track and the visual software for right. It's it's kind of like dj ing with a but the videos pretty. Yeah exactly yeah and before that. Yeah we just build it all out Everything and the visuals said was was more like a movie that just played alongside and at the start. Hi newer for years. You are touring as well or an handling all the visual aspects. Yeah i was handling all the vigil visual aspects like vincent. You didn't have stamped anything. Fancy back then so at my laptop in a little launch pat on to kind of correct the temple of the of the video if we count the leg of the last well that was prime point of our soundcheck doing the lag at the input lag. Compensation really funny. Which would yet it super jerry rig but it was. It was fun and i did a little bit of dj to Yeah we fun. But i think maybe going into like maybe your next question. Why why did i stop doing that. I think we kind of from that ledge. Vince wanted to do more exciting stuff on stage. I wanted to kind of take a step back in and have more macro image of what the show was going to be like united states. That just really works well together with me. Not being onstage sir. Yeah i mean for you. It's an interesting question. Right of like who. What what roles we end up wanting to fill and being comfortable in for you. Did you like being on stage or did it did not really make a difference to you. It was it was definitely fun. I mean like a there's some sort of adrenaline rush. Of course that comes being on stage and it was. That was cool. But if i like to look into baron thought about like hey where do want to still be on stage in five than iraq but yeah it was. It was a cool like teenage dream. You know to be a touring dj or a bit. But i think. I checked that box and it was kind of time to move on what sure that makes total sense. I mean it's. I've always liked the way you guys presented the project right because it was always presented as this this mesh of audio and visual experience everything sort of on the same level presented in the same way to make this sort of bigger world. Which i'm curious. I guess how you came to that at the start and how you decided to present it that way because there's plenty of Visual artists who have interesting sounds behind what they do. And there's plenty of of deejays and producers who have interesting visuals behind what they do. But i think it's very rarely presented as this sort of fifty fifty collaboration. You know put all of this together and it becomes bigger than just. It's parts kind of idea to that. I don't really know it's a good question. I mean like we. We started the project together even with three people back in the day. Get yours and this was at school when it started yet an art school and i yours like very early on figured out like hey this is not my latch calling i. I better stick to directing. He's phenomenal actor. And is that what he was doing for the project at the star. Yeah yeah and yet as also yeah like we were. We didn't have enough money to make actual big budget video clip so his role in that time as well was more on the sidelines than more hypothetical one for two futures while so that's also why he wanted to actually focus on doing the stuff that he was. Yeah because yours live together in vince over their house quite a bit and i think we started june like my final year of college. Same reorientation. I dropped right. I was already drugged out. Yes you dropped out that year or something like that of that. That probably that year i can make and i think as well to the point where we weren't like i graduated than yours graduated. I think it was kind of like a turning point for us. It's like well damn we now go to like find a job like will this surprise as a job for now and i think it was kind of hard for yours to justify for himself this hypothetic- in a couple of years might be something that could actually functions of job but maybe not directly Did it function as that for you. Guys how how is that at the start. Because i mean you know everybody starts somewhere. You gotta build it up if you're just getting out of school typically traditionally. That's a time when people don't have a ton of money you know. How did you make it work for those first couple of years. I had a job in aside side. i think you also it's a yeah i mean i. I used to just freelance for a bunch of his high studios. And that's what i. That's what i kinda dated in beginning work for we somewhere else in the network on the project for two weeks in work for weekend someplace else. You know we yeah. We basically just against verbally decided like. Hey we're gonna do this no matter. What if you have to do something else aside. Then that's fine for now What was your side job vince. I pushed We believe wheelchairs around from one location in a building so the other in a rehabilitation center as zone. I help them from there Living enslaving orders to places where they did their armies and they're all that kind of stuff and it was actually great because i got a lot of Interesting conversations out of as well and both low about life And they opened up to me interesting way. Because i wasn't a nurse. I wasn't a therapist. And i wasn't wasn't anything so There was no reason for them to hold the bag or be anxious about my response or anything so it was actually a great inspiring times. Well the and i got super superglued physique president because i was walking the whole day best is this man was getting steps in how did you. How did you land on that job. That seems such a random job center. Yes sure sure like a center. Yeah yeah. I guess that's interesting. I mean and you know. I think to tie it back into your guys project. I mean it is a very conceptual project. The you're talking about getting inspiration from talking to older people about life and that sort of thing and it makes me curious you know in the like audio visual collaboration. That is your guys project. Where does where does this song start. How does how does it new creation star does it start from an idea some inspiration from a conversation you had. Does it start from july idea that that you have high new is. Is there a typical way. Assam takes form. Most of inside is I work on a On on the idea musically that stems more from feeling and there's no concept attached to it whatsoever and most of the time halfway through when we decide yet. This could be intrigued that we want to finish and release that we start thinking about. What could the concept around this ceiling me so We'll start brainstorming and thinking Amplify those elements that are more storytelling within the music. But also also forcing the individual representation of it and that were like a same angle. Trans elvin stories as well as possible. It makes me wonder because. I think that's something you guys achieve very well and i think that's one of the reasons people are so drawn to what you do. But there's always this this weird thing. I talked about this a lot on this show. Where i i like to over. think things. And i like to analyze philosophize and apply that to what we do to music into art but then the best music and art is always the simplest in the purest right. And is that something you've struggled with or something you've sort of figured out any hacks for of how to only as well over thinking it who yeah. That's that is a paradox. in itself it has been a struggle from time to time. Definitely there. was this one period more than beginning. Bolger i think around the time that created a fumble josh. I made a lot of songs. Surrounded signed words way too complex. In wade's fool. And then i. I tried to the remind myself holocene. All trek legs easy was which i don't even remember making. Actually it was like done so quickly but that that was also for me. Where like a little bit of that. Magic was always tried to Find vats of making something so simple but still so Do tend to work quickly once you get started. Really reading the pens I work a lot in game phases so In the sense that i have. I'm brought now in a face that i don't make any music old since i've finished the of using her and before that i worked in a way that i use my notebook olds my my. I wrote down every single. Little thing. Anna phase before that by just created as many work in progress as good I always loved to try and find different ways to start music because it keeps me keeps fresh. Keeps me on my toes But there isn't. I haven't found a way of making news against that. He's actually is my way his sure. I mean it's interesting. You say you don't even remember making z. Which you know. I think a lot of people would look at his sort of your breakout track right. The track was the first thing people heard from you a lot of cases and may i mean maybe that's the secret is just some being able to put yourself so in the moment that when you're finished you sort of don't realize what just happened right. I think so. I think so. It is yeah never been able to do that since though maybe with one point again hissar about you on the visual side of things do you approach it. Do you think about the same way. Gag. kinda i think maybe into the comeback eliminating interesting where it's like then says like seized genius. Something that doesn't even remember making any more and i think that's maybe like the best form of creation where it just goes you so in a moment and it goes so fast but acting kind of like maybe kind bagging to the beginning of our conversation. Dot dot rare moment is something. That's so hard to fabricate that but you still have to do a release every month that i think that exactly exactly. Yeah that that. I think at some point you kind of start learning how to maybe forced that massaged at inspiration in the into something. You know And i think that's kind of like what i've trying to figure out there trying to figure out for myself. There's he survived. That i've made in thirty minutes of consumer you for example. I was doing minutes super simplistic at work. That's great you know the one of my favorites. Yeah it's just a it was being bombed bouma done on. But there's other pieces like i think for on like i can't wait. I've worked on like every day. And still when i look at it and say cats but i think i i think i could do more but the question is like do i have to do more argued Last making make it better. That data does. That's something that. I've been like struggling with in my head that duality between like do i. I think would in art. It's like you either rely on presentation or rely on fundamental. it's sometimes hard to rely on both the presentation and defensive end fundamentals and kind of finding that balance is tricky. But that's something that. I'm trying to work towards. I mean that's interesting right because especially at this point you know you're you're professionals quote unquote and you. You can rely on a certain skill level that you know you have in your back pocket. But that doesn't necessarily mean every time you sit down you're gonna be really inspired and know exactly what you wanna do and so the. Yeah it's it's such an interesting thing. Is i think everybody at every level still hits this where you can. You can know that you are an excellent artist and you can still sit down and make something terrible. Yes yes which has happened area often. If only people heard the stuff that we make not release the amount of the amount of i dunno files have on. My computer is insane. Well that's the thing write is there's this myth of these i mean even take it back to jimi hendrix i'm sure jimi hendrix had some terrible recordings that he would never want people to hear. There's this myth of this sort of you know the the Genius artist this Know whatever you wanna call it. The i don't really think exists. I mean there's definitely people who i've seen work and i say wow. I don't know how they did that. Or wow that's really impressive but at the end of the day i don't know i i still think it's just hard work instead of putting the time in at the end of the day i i do think there's definitely people that like train themselves very much to be as consistent as possible. Yeah insistent is a great way to put it. 'cause like i was watching a bunch of fingers and definitely gonna Mark i think. Oh yeah oh yeah. Yeah i may yet but that ridiculous literally you walk into the room. Grabs grabs a piano treads. Yeah every time. Yeah but. I think he's very i mean i. I found out that he does all these shows. Pretty much free which i think. He's just trying himself very much to be consistent as possible through also the. It's a similar like of freestyle rappers. Right away at some point have such a big for cab. Ury in bruel said that they can big from in their own mind. They just instantly of all these bits of of of a couple of bars right annexing for for guy like mark You come train themselves in a way that he has oldies like tricks and small things to keep the crowd invested in. Because he like. I've i've watched a whole jovian vegetating. Amsterdam yes yeah. Yeah yeah it's it's so good. It's it's amazing because he's not making music mold time he is. He is engaging with people like out of a conversation. A new thing strauss and it flows so organically that it has allowed from some sort of preconceived rules said that he has created by just an awful lot. That's amazing and also in the sense from the genius. I think no there might not be something like a genius but i do think that what we're talking about earlier how if you're like super in omen interesting tune with choices and and why you want to make the choices in our sensory of sense that that might be a genius inside of us because if if like that here now feeling maybe yeah. Yeah i mean maybe that. Maybe you're right. Maybe the genius part of it is being able to kind of like what hind said Being able to just more quickly put yourself in that open pure space and being open to whatever comes. It's not necessarily that. Your brain is working so hard you have such a giant brand that you can just create these things. no one else could think of. But it's that you're able to. It's almost the opposite. It's almost like you're able to turn your brain off faster than other people true. Oh yoda was his great quote from This book the the war of rs. Yeah someone got asked the question. when does do you like were inspired. Yes windows inspiration. Mostly maju every morning at nine nine. Am like that. That sense of just couldn't yourself doing additioning yourself. I mean yeah. Yeah and i mean you guys have both referenced you know that sort of one track a month mentality that you know you have to be on a you have to creativity on a schedule to a certain extent especially at the start to just sort of get out there and get your name none. Would you know in those early years like you put out. Z z and people. Start paying more attention to what you're doing over time you start You know playing some shows you put out some more music's more people see it. What what did that early time feel like. Did it feel like it was sort of an explosion and all the sudden. You're doing all these things you never imagined or was it. Did it feel more of kind of a slow burn that it was just another brick on top of another brick. Absolutely more leanings. Awards an explosion. At least one definitely. I think like wednesdays feed came out it was a relief for bid for the first one being make my day than ever even landed on on black. Dsp's or anything like that because it had a sample in cooled enough to release back in the day and yes easy came out odyssey. We didn't really know what to expect. And all of a sudden we got a text message from a mutual friend of us. Hey guys are viral. Top fifty at number five nuts. We were guesting. Viral top tasty is. What does that what happened now. Yeah yeah what does it. What does that mean like next. We know we got like all of these calls bunch of major labels in the netherlands. Bike name sign you guys for whatever the truck and that was a whole interesting. He'll i guess 'cause we took a bunch of meetings didn't have manage. I can like back then. So we didn't renew jackson about the music industry dealing with with a major label. I won't say big where dealing with a lot of interest for multiple major labels when you have no management that is a that is a crazy thing to think of that. Yeah and it's like back then it just constantly Wanted to sign us. Release easy with on it. That's kind of where every conversation anchor back back in the day where it's such a wanted. This thing that you guys did. That was organically successful than in jackson. Major label juice at that. Yeah yeah but it was. It was in the ad not bad While it was the weird of course but we weren't overwhelmed account right. Yeah yeah because we very much cabinet in mind that these like there were so many parties that like showed interest at once We fought again. That's just snippy. How was most wing. We don't have nothing to lose. We have all the time in the world. And i'm very glad that we didn't jump on anything sales in too much about it. I think that's also mainly because this whole project. Yeah what have we done. Type thing wasn't likely both had like the inspiration at like five years on. Wanna be a to entrap artists ever Yeah it was just something that happened in despair about ranting had the luck of being able to kind of see it from a mixed view and yeah interesting right that you may be because of sort of your the way you came together in the way you've founded the project the what you wanted out of it that you are maybe a little more immune to some of the things people could dangle in front of your face red because i think the major label deal there dangling that of you know being famous whatever artists they can turn you into x. person but if that was never your goal from the start that's that is kind of a lucky thing i guess i i don't wanna put words in your guy's house either. I mean when when you started it if that wasn't your goal. What was the goal. Great stuff that we thought ourselves. That was cool. I guess yeah if other people will go on to it that would be an added benefit. And that's actually still the mentality that we do everything with. That's that's great. And it's i think extremely lucky and just awesome that you are able to have that from the start because i think again you know no management major labels after that for a lot of artists. I think a dangerous position. Because you know you just wanna be for a lot of people you just want to be out of the struggle know all of us struggled at the start and the appeal of just not having to struggle for a little while seems great. Read at the start. Yes and you don't necessarily care how you get there at least or you don't even know you should care about that at the start of the struggling itself got more. It was later down the line actually than It will something bad. We were introduced with right away because before we started drew to struggle was mainly like how we finishing our schools. And how How do we live by ourselves in a house that has been. That's more barriers teaser. Day you'd have to be random oldest. Yeah so it wasn't even that these were problems. That were on our radar yet. I i think today much like why when everything was going to shows a ticket tours and stuff like that and shin crew. All of that. We couldn't really the number bruegel mentality just yet. You know paying rent paint groceries nasty. Now there are other people that need to get paid and production of you to get paid for and everything like that and i think that's kind of when the whole business thing hit us like a ton of bricks like. Hey this is running a business wise. Yeah we're running business now and cut the whole bunch of taxes and stuff like that in nike the insurance and all that all of those things I think that yeah. That was. That was kind of like when the win. Two guys that were just making music and art form or fund kind of transformed into a case shit running business that yeah and i have to imagine to. You also have to let people in on on the gang right like you have to let people into your circle which probably i have to assume. Felt weird if you know you. The collaboration what's special about is sort of what you guys are creating together these shared ideals and then all of a sudden. It's almost like you're being forced to include more people in that circle just because of how big it's gotten with. Was that sort of difficult to to let more people in to let other ideas then was definitely a difficult Delegate anything that was more creative which we all. Yeah we didn't do that often as well actually But we down the line. We got more interested in how we can be creative around the whole marketing conveyance That we do like the aren't works in the music And that was sometimes a little bit of a well. No not one not even actually did. The the team has been like really supportive in everything creatively. But it was it. We had more to communicate and therefore there had more. It was more that needed to be translated from our minds to other people and that the only thing that it was a little tired exhausting is not even is too much of a word of it but the ants definitely. It's definitely a skill man by now. Just delegating stuff especially creative or just communicating to multiple people who are gonna take care of some execution things on on that creative idea is it's a skill. It's a skill to communicate. Yeah i think that's absolutely right. And i mean maybe that's a good way to talk about The a matter of perspective and the project sort of culmination of all this. The i don't know what you guys you know. It's an anthology of work that you've done. There's also new material there's These re imaginings of old songs and there's this whole Museum this visual museum. That people can experience. I mean i for the people who don't know what i'm talking about it. Maybe just briefly if you wanna talk about what that is what the project is what. The museum is all about how people can check it out. We should probably we should probably mention that true true. Do you want me to talk a little bit about the museum or do you want to you. Can you can start cool. yes so we. We decided to do this. Virtual machine gun. Think like three to four physical or galleries surrounding. Ap's before of course twenty. Twenty sox can't do person anymore so that kind of a kind of the idea of like. Hey can we. Maybe this experience and applied and put it in a digital medium And we ended up going with gun with discord in creating this like audiovisual exchange. Where you're walking through this museum with the lovely narration. Vince telling you what the with the ideas behind the songs wherein and and of giving you a new perspective on on the bricks. I'm now on our discord. Most likely future will be as well numb because unfortunately just like our previous show. Our old shows this diver. Everything is super jerry rig. We we pretty much every morning after restart all of the all of the streams and and do everything and running off a computer. That's in the office at bitburg. We're not physically there. I mean. I'm in vancouver. Insulate call people at six in the morning. Joe are you at the office. You go to street now. The video in walk walk through it. That's actually makes me happy because that's sort of that. Sounds like where it all started right like. That's some art. School shit is true is just taking on an idea. That's maybe just a little bit too big and figuring out how to make it work. I mean that's very charming. But i think that's maybe a perfect way to to present the project right. Yeah def definitely like we had talks with discord woodley conceived the idea. They were super now no question. Unfortunately the technology that we were asking really in the pipeline yet There were we call the like. How can we just jerry rigged kind of person out of work. But i mean it's working for king man. I checked it out. Yeah can still run experiments. You gotta call somebody. Real quick can't is still alive. Nice it's it's it's a really interesting idea and something. I had never seen before which i think is that just being able to say that is so rare in what we do because i feel like most most ideas that we see even if somebody does something really cool or an interesting way it stephen evolution of of an idea. You've seen before and this. I didn't really have a of references for this. It was i think also We were pretty Say that taken aback by this idea as well a little bit at some point but it was it was really fun suits who come up with ideas like this with the concept of mattering speckles in mind because that opens so many different doors that It's something we just gave. Why don't we try. This is weird weird thing and and also in that perspective. We thought that it would be great to see if we can add another like fully different perspectives to the work Here in informed these little stories that are not even not even the concepts of the music in the art or sells more derived astronomy. And it's a different versions of translations of the same story in the end. Yeah that's that's useful to read. I mean that makes me think about sort of know. It's like liner notes. Or something where. It's it's not you know when i say the word museum. It's not like you're going there and it's just you reciting this song and this is what it means but it's made and right exactly. Yeah but it's it's context and it's it's a bigger world right and and just more a deeper experience for people. And i think that's really interesting. You mentioned You know bit birds and obviously you guys have have worked closely with them throughout the years and my understanding is that son hollow Was an early Influence early important person in your career. How did you guys meet up originally how did you. How'd you all link up and become aware of each other. So really funny. Star is a religious story. Yeah i think. I think it started with Vince did by somebody for a that person thought that he had a studio but yeah instill a run the okay i got hit up by an ex classmate of mine who said like hey i got asked to do this Studio session with his rapper. From switzerland and he wasn't going to make it. This was actually giro's vandal. Now yeah yeah that's crazy. He's amazing. he is amazing. He's really though. But yeah if me that opportunity Solely because he wasn't able make it. So then i win and i made an instagram video. That studio and then another guy on facebook days later. Hit me up was like yo. You have a studio. And this was a andy from moscow. I said i told him no. That wasn't my studio. But i do Study at the school where can rent studios. So maybe we can go there and and do your session. And i can just sit in the back so we did and in that studio session. It was lost code. Together with damian and damian show my music music what we had to that point. I think it was our zoo could be. I could be a stake. So yeah and then. I showed them. And then damian reposted our zoo on his soundcloud For while the kohner big bird found that showed it on hollow and zone. Low reached out on us to us on twitter. It was really funny. Is a song followed us and like this was told this story to a couple of people in like that. That's crazy or whatever 'cause we on followed as we didn't know who he was at. The related is doing dutch as fifty k. Follows sick people are always. That's crazy but it's like it's five years ago stuff son has grown multitudes would in five years Who back then. It wasn't really wasn't like diplomat reached out to us so the the it makes sense but yeah he did he. You follow us on twitter. And then he. He does Or southbound or something on the we met up with sawn or in budi who was san's manager at the time and later became our manager too. I think during amsterdam dance event at a yellow claw show. I think we're saw for yellow claw like amsterdam z. To really tiny loved like no green room or whatever so the only dipoto kind of blake secluded area slash quieter area. We get was slow the smoking area of the clock. And that's where we met sonnen tore and budi for the first time so we're still like screaming at each other because it was still hard to hear and Yeah it was. It was a great experience. I just love the idea of you know because from that point where everyone still like you said. San wasn't who he is now in his music. Didn't sound like what it sounds like now and the same could be said about your under the does the idea of all of you guys meeting over the blaring like soundtrack of yellow claw like going on this whole wholesome interaction as the yeah initiated from a landing over yellow motherfucking. That's so good. Shit what was i. Oh i know what i was gonna say. That's a much more interesting story than you know. Sort of what. I how my brain works because in my brand is just like oh. They're dutch all the dutch artist. They all know each other. You know must have just been that kind of thing. Because i think from an american perspective of especially a nerdy american like myself. Who really thinks about this sort of thing. There's i don't know if if this is true you tell me what you think but it seems like dutch people and electronic music. There's this weird you. i'm not saying you guys are necessarily just across the board better added but it's like it comes more naturally. There's this weird intuitive thing this spin that dutch people to just be able to put on it but And it's not you know from from anything from what you do to what saen does to you know super emmy people you know. Tesol whoever it's it's all across the map like i. I asked laidback luke. The same question and he was like i don't know but it is it. Is it something you've thought about or something you would have experienced yourself now. I actually thought about this. very recently. Yeah mean that's like we had an interview like last week or something like that. We kind of talked about it. My perspective on it is kind of like. I think the netherlands and electronic music. It's been very much embedded in in in the culture I think when both me and vince criminal chester was in his prime time in the netherlands. At least like to do like a national icon. If the netherlands went like night people for cultural achievements they definitely united chest. Okay back then and made it yet. I think it really simple for kids. Like uh uh-huh to be interested in music and floor gets to be like. Yeah i wanna be a dj handout would be like oh six. Wanna be like cesco. That's yeah yeah exactly. I i thought about this later to derive from that conversation that we had back then. I was wondering what is like like traditional dutch like music culture and there is not that much of a there is. There is some definitely but it's mostly like a carnival music which is very very heavy on accounts exit going on. I know what. I mean. Like how i do i do yes. Yeah and when you look into like the early stuff from just oh translator used to me. It's kind of. There are similarities there and i think that in the sense the dutch using Bischel dutch using styles didn't get that much attention. Because of how divided in culture like the above the river's and below two rivers are where below overstating they celebrate carnival every year like goldman hardcore hardcore and above above the rivers. They kind of push that all away. And as the beds trouble cuddly because of the different religions is gonzalez's and The the new store sober reformed versions of christianity. Bed were more as being above the river's. That's maybe dad gave this urge of trying them for like bush away. Everything did was traditional and really embracing the the the more progressive stuff and also look at the technology with Yeah dr seuss will soon be very beat. Cigna logical country. Of course so. I don't know it was thought it's maybe it's not even true but not that's interesting. I mean where you it makes me wonder were are either. You guys. Religious spirituality play a role in creativity for either of you in any way i personally. I have been baptized. But i've never. I've not really been Year really raised religiously. But i've always i think i'm more of a agnostics nas are there must be something and i actually a lot of comfort and also Or at least motivation from from the idea that there might be something bigger than myself but in more than that and not so much. It's not an active active thing. That i go braiding their creative person. How are you hiring me. Neither i mean i i in the netherlands. You have the staying with Like a baptized name. Basically like your parents have have a normal name for you which hainan mike but then they give you your official church names or whatever because you're almost While it's like yeah. They just grabbed lunch. Saints tro together into one day. And so i do have that but i think that's because my dad's side of the family was very religious Where my mom definitely has. Religious farwell thinks she didn't get baptized that that's kind of delaying goes benevolence everybody prior to our generation's. Just you get baptized. You hear commu community against union. Yeah yeah communion communion and everything. But i personally am not really that religion site mark with the idea that there might be something but some days. I'm like candy some days ago. But you know like the there is a recent But i don't necessarily really involves spirituality creativity that much but i do have to say i can't get very inspired religious pieces of art but maybe that's all such as beacons religions on such dominion on culture and but but yet i mean you know there is something really cool about a big giant crossing a beautiful catholic church which is really cool Visual signifier of that are are really cool. And the don answers the question absolutely. Yeah i mean the same thing for for music too. Right i mean. The religion had a stranglehold on art and on music for so so big of a part of human history right like the church had like all the bangers for hundred took all the second copy strike everyone did eighteen hundreds version of a dmca thing. Just a beheading. I asked inquisition. I guess down right now instead of ghosts producers. You're a heretic. Oh man but yeah mean. I'm the same as you guys. More or less i replace replaced. Baptism with circumcision. And that's about where i'm with. It is like after that blast. Yeah you know. i'm. I'm jewish but not really particularly and And it's an interesting thing. Because i take kind of like you said i take inspiration from the history of it. I mean certainly the people who came before me and the absolutely the art and the music and all that they created but to me. As i get older i think i flipped it in two. Instead of taking inspiration from spirituality. I think for me. i'd figured out. Creating is sort of my spirituality. And it's the only time where i really feel connected to whatever is bigger than me yet ever that is and you know i don't. I'll probably never know what that actually is. But it's something. I've become more comfortable with over the years. Because when i was younger i would. I was just more sceptical and less open. And just be like. That's all bullshit. Now i fully agree. I think it's maybe even the that they've never had been made something that you really. Whoa how did. I even make this. Oh yeah like that wonder of would the actual hell right or or like seeing something else that that surfaced stories so coherently religion is is the has the best visual storytelling out there. I think At least When looking like yesterday yeah. It's amazing. So i definitely can see what be that was another part of it too. I don't know why. I'm just like hayden old religion but it's like they. They also had all the money right so they could just hire the best artists and they you know they were the major label. Baker collect remarkable. Now you have capital atlantic back. Then you had christianity. Judaism islam islam. Islam controlled the whole middle east. Buddhism was a little bit more indie. And how was dislike southeast asian underground. They weren't concerned about making money. That were just. That's so funny. Imagined no way. What were you gonna say. Imagine having ticked off. But you know talking about about cultural differences. What was it like for you guys when you first started. Getting out of the netherlands and touring you. Know particularly the us Did that change your worldview. Did it change anything about the way you wrote music or thought about the presentation of your art for me. Definitely for me was Quite the culture shock to to be in america first because it was. I used to watch a lotta movies when i was younger. And most of these movies were american movies so to see these places and the sexually beating these phrases and see how experienced how different they feel than when you when i was looking at the movies that or trade them brought this whole new context to how flexible reality is If that makes sense. Because i'm sitting here in the netherlands in dark now over here and and go through lane and you end up in a different time zone and see like interact with people. Who have we realized. Seven total different background than where where you came from. It felt like a whole new reality. That definitely was inspired me to create Or come up with different concepts or stories as well. What was your idea of the us before you got there you like. What movies are we talking about. Who wants so many different movies. I think it was pretty idolized. Because of the movie was a definitely address. This big beautiful world merica where everything is happening and not not. That much seems to be wrong. Although you there also he's louise that. Were portraying less I i know what you mean though. It's the idea of the american dream riot. Is the you know you might be hard but you can make it and it's you know it's bigger and brighter than anything you've seen before Definitely definitely is bigger and brighter than than a lot of things. Just just cheer amplitude. That is definitely true. Yeah we know how to crank the volume here. Yeah that's i think. I think i think maybe that was one of my realizations america. In america things can go to eleven point. Was that you know talking about that. Idea was the people is it. The culture did it i mean. Do you notice a strong difference talking to you. Know somebody in the netherlands versus talking to somebody in the us. Yeah definitely Dutch people are way way way way more reserved than way more at least in some parts with a mentality. Like if i don't know you then. I don't really care and you have to do something really. Cool it from my perspective for your doing center. You just terrible but then again When we were in la for the first time for instance we noticed that like the total opposite of that coin. Wear it almost fall like to socially agnes. Yeah the air bust at up. Yeah and and ended turtles steer anymore. Sincerety got lost because of bad And that was a very interesting to feel for the first time to. Yeah i mean l. a famously insincere town now maybe more than anywhere else. I think. I think that's also something that's just very present in like playing show in la for him. feels in the netherlands in most of europe. Like you rich. It doesn't matter that you're up on that stage. You still approve. Yeah to all the people in the crowd that you're worth worth being there but what exactly once you get it then you really you know Which i think is something that we've noticed. I mean being dutch play a year every year. Like that's that's the comes with the territory and Yeah which eighty time. It's a big survival week but Yeah i think that's similar to for anyone who doesn't adm it's like you know Miami music weaker or south by south is something like that and yet i think every year we played it we won over the crowd a little bit more and then when we did our first number hampshire that was most energetic Shows that we've ever ever done because it felt like we really you know burnt as he shares earned it and we want these people over to to really really connect with us where sometimes shields in america. I don't care as long as you play a cor- yeah that's really funny. Well i mean in in america to. It's just it's so big and especially in the major cities. There's so many things all happening on top of each other and so i think it can. It can go both ways. It could either be. There's less pressure to sort of feel like this has to be the perfect thing the perfect presentation because you know the la keeps moving right so you know you go to la you put on a good show you keep moving but then also it can feel overwhelming in the sense of well. There's so much noise to cut through this noise. How do i stand out. Did you feel like was it hard to break into the. Us was that it or did that. Come with the territory. Once you started touring. I didn't really experienced as hard to be honest. No i think it's also because our music back in the day was just a lot more lives in america. Just johner was a lot more alive in america versus year. I think europe is now in the last year or two kind of get slowly getting it up where america was five years basically Which is acceptance of that type of music elektronik op and of you know like just electronic. I guess some design. I still felt in the netherlands that baghdad. You like take note for like hardcore out and trance like those three accepted signings. I'm a bit of drone base in. Yeah and yeah and north like thanks to bosnia and the noisy there was like this tiny shining beacon of light grabbed on sir like yeah life depended on it that you'd have to them early on. Yes oh yes. That's how we initially really do. I Yeah you knew about my music because you were looking for someone to project abandoned. Now we go. We go back again true but ovation that we had though we instantly bond because we were like what comes in the us two and both sick yet. it was. Yeah did you wanna make music like them. Was that ever a thought at the start. I thought i wasn't able to hide. It was their level was so high out that Longtime i mean why. Why even try. Yeah the no. I mean they. Are you know if we were talking about those genius. Artists they are. The ones are frequently still to this day. I'm like yeah. I don't have any idea how they did that. You know we've talked about a lot. But i guess i'm curious i'm sure you guys are getting asked a lot of you know what's the future look like. What are your next plans all of that and you know the how does it come to a close. How do you decide to separate and sort of leave. Your your flag planted all of that. I feel like that's out there. And i feel like unless you guys really have something. Burn you on to say it's like you know. People people grow as a project You grow as separate individuals and sometimes you. He ended up. You know go in different directions. But i am curious going from a duo partnership a collaboration to now going into whatever the next step is going to be it is theoretically a solo project for both of you and does that seem exciting. Does that seem scary. Does that seem a really anything you know. What are your thoughts on that Exciting in the sense that it leaves. It gives a lot of Opportunity because it is a Zhao was which there anything can happen. but at the same time yeah It's it's hard Because obviously the fact that we've been in the process of getting to this point for such a long time now doesn't mean that fans for his Signing as easy to think about it's getting into that direction Instabilities wells. I'm sometimes a little scared of in. In what way will fans still. Willie miss Mind when i am releasing new stuff. Funder for new hampshire drew Which is fully understandable as well. Of course the thing that i'm slightly scared of navy is that I really hope that doesn't take away from what we are. Both trying to do and that like hind doesn't get hit up with By people like hey really miss you worked for drew lou or with. Hey really missed. The artwork that high made or really is War of an slightly anxious thing. But i can also at the same time. Indiana doesn't matter because worst were still going to do. Whatever we fleeing is is the coolest do so with that knowledge we just have to keep going and if people like new and if they don't they don't yeah. I think that's maybe a great note for for anybody who appreciates what you do. Is that to you know if they like drew and they like this project than they like your ideas and your philosophy and if what you're saying is that this is the same thing we've always been doing is just doing what we thought was the coolest thing to do at the time that you can't really argue with that true. I think that's something that we're just gonna keep doing. Maybe not together anymore. You know but we're still just gonna make stuff that we like. Making we think is cool. And i think it's also Something that's hard for us. To maybe realized. Sometimes i this whole separation has been like a nine month long process from when we decided to do it too. We are now but for fans it's like a sudden think you Bradley kind of the changes everything and for us. It's not really a big jump but for fans of probably i mean i totally get that people would be slightly shocked by on taking back or whatever but i think there's just two things we're still going to keep doing what we like doing. And that's probably not really gonna change plus stuff that we did together is still there. It's gonna to go away. It's like rating the big old delete button still there. You know you can still enjoy it. I think i mean honestly from my personal perspective. There's only a few projects that i've been a very big fan enough for very extended periods time because stuff changes. That's naturally that's needed as well. Yeah i think they'll be yet. Even if i like. Iron can't really took an exclusive Radiohead or whatever. Even if i hate the radiohead new radiohead album. I still love the old radiohead album because it's still bear. You can still listen if you can still enjoy. I mean i. I've been doing lately. I've been making a spot of for myself every month which is new music. That comes out that one most of dejoy again. It's glistening to you what. I like this time. But you asking that galas Which i think gets it still. I can still exist. You know at something isn't not cool anymore because it's not right. Yeah and i mean and it's all tied to memories red and tied to nostalgia. You said you know the same way. The music is still going to be there. The arts still gonna be there. Were still going to have whatever memory people associate with your guys. Work up to this point. They're always going to have that to an end to take your radio had example. I mean even. If you don't like the new radiohead album you sort of trust them to be like well. This one isn't really my thing. I'm still gonna check out the next one. Because i like what they do. You know i appreciate that. Ms artis and i. I certainly think you guys have have earned that status over these years. I mean talking about as we kind of wrap it up talking about memory and nostalgia just just for fun. Do you guys have any any memories from the project. The just sort the you just think about a lot. Maybe like run on a loop in your head sometimes in the background. It doesn't have to be like you know a crazy tour story or anything like that but just just some some shared memory some experience that you just end up thinking about a lot. Yeah i i haven't. It's not like something that i keep something. I kind kinda came back to me years ago. Released binding was different this time. But we were on tour with sean in america. And both me vince. Kinda got a little a little under the weather a couple days. Anxiety janssen yego. Then we flew to san francisco and the body was a lot like pressure acknowledged. Human everything remember that she went to go grocery shopping. Really quick They called a dutch tiger crunch. Which kinda accurate. but we. I remember that we got that brand and it was just so good to finally have like some late dutch style bread again for some reason that i think i was thinking about that too because i saw it in dutch tiger crunched how bread into grocery store the other day. That buddy i remember i remember that woman. We were like joe sick. finally she. American wonder bread little touch of home or comfort that can be in so much definitely cheese everywhere. What we've found cheese Was slightly more like a dutch gouda or something else. Yeah it was a beacon beacon flight. I think we got this whole period of the second. Whenever had downtime in some city of finding a place they sold attended dutch soon. I think we got to manager at some point. Yeah it was really really nothing quite like it. I i love that. That's that's exactly what. I was hoping for out of that question anything. Come up for you. Bids yeah i think a lot of them. The times that was staying in like airbnb easing places that i have never been before but then for weeks and just by myself and those have been really I've learned a lot about myself because it it's it's so much spike throwing myself in the deep end of an environment that i'm totally unfamiliar with ends of make it work consensus ain't about. Hey how do. I want to be productive out. Y great regina the actually. It helps me to think back off on those moments. When i'm trying to read when in my Current life in jail burns and create a space. That i can call home because it was very much fighting with that. Guns of what is home for me. So that's that's something that i think about the live but probably also because i'm just Place in the netherlands beds. That's probably also why. I'm thinking a lot. Those moments tour. Of course i mean. That's you know that's another thing. We didn't really touch on that. The touring lifestyle. When it's really going strong your no mad right and it's hard. It's hard to feel rooted. It's hard to feel like you know anywhere is really euro and yeah definitely definitely. That's a very much thing that i've noticed and also for for a long time thrived on because i just had my yellow bag and i doubt my life wasn't there literally. My life was in there and the yellow back of definitely definitely. I've i never wanted to get a suitcase because I was always scared. The leave it somewhere. When i was on an airport with you when actively rabbits than i just wanted to have something. That was a part of me so i walked around like the juggernaut now. I think it's funny. I think we both never we. Never we add the the real back from the beginning. I my backpack in later suitcase. And that's never changed. We haven't gone one or whatever. It's that the yellow north face backpack. The what brandon is backpacking chiba suitcase. That's been that's been the setup. We added a couple of cases to for production later on. But that's always been the decor thing that hasn't changed. I live there. I think that's the in. This conversation is that you guys have managed to hold on to wear. It started in a way to sorta hold onto your your intentions about it from the beginning and to me. I think that that has to be one of the reasons why drilling has been successful as it has up to this point right. Is that sort of that certainty Of of a decision a commitment. I think that's an important thing man even down to something as little as a a yellow backpack i think those little those little reminders Subconsciously help a lot. Yes for sure. Yeah it's funny what you said about About feeling like thinking about the concept of home and enjoying not having a home for a while only. Because i had i had gone on the show months back. He said almost exactly the same thing and that he he like really revelled in sort of being a wanderer and not really having anywhere to hang his hat so to speak and then only this year of course because this changed a lot for a lot of people that he's sort of trying to see the appeal of of having a more permanent place. Yeah definitely definitely. I think that is also there was also a slightly different in in While i wouldn't call it mentality but more so future aspirations of exotic between me in hind where i was more. Yeah i didn't really care And and you didn't either of course but You maybe you wanted to get in touch with that idea of home earlier than i did. Our or because i'd like you said it. Also because of the cove is stuff more and more about why living situation as well as the on leaving in different ways right now. Which i love. So it's it's really interesting. Absolute man as has this conversation. It's been really fun. I hope you you guys had a good time before we definitely good good well before we get out of here. We covered a lot. But is there anything else you want to get out there anything else. That's on your mind anything else. We didn't talk about anything you want to get out there. Please feel free. We covered a lot. I mean we have no pitted marketing. Agendas saying yeah we. We dropped the march collection. Which we're really proud of. Go ahead if you don't. The net is fine. Louis sponsor money. That's yeah we we money. Yeah i'd rather pay rent than have kosher vinyl coming out which were really excited about That's the first time that doing any physical release. We obviously designing package ourselves and everything by love lada labor yet to hold it in in our hands ourselves assemble We're not nice. But i'm glad that we get the share that moment. But if you would would a bunch of fans who already bought the vinyl because the album's out coalition to it. If you wanted to again for people you know it's there's new stuff on it too right. I mean it's like that's what i liked about. The album is that it is a look back also new and it's an update of old things. It's it's what we were talking earlier with with vince. His narration in the digital museum. It's it's more context. It's a broader world right now. Great sweet we did it. Thank you guys man. I really appreciate this. This was super fun. Say this Best interviewed that we've had in a long time. Glad glad to hear that you didn't even do reliable Buncha people probably ask you guys about like. Why did you decide to split up. And everything. But i mean people change and people grow side the fact that you are not even going for that question with great or it's like we have that same fucking question for a million times. I figure people want to know the answer to that they can you. It's out there. You know you said that enough. Let just check the statement if you want like rate the full detail but yeah we grew apart be felt like it was really unhealthy situation anymore for both of us creatively so we decided to not do it anymore. Easy no but honestly this. This interview Even felt more like a great conversation so again thank you guys have a good rest of your day. Great talking to you you do all right. Take care guys all right. That's the show. Shut up drew. Thanks for coming on guys. That was great for everybody out there listening. I hope you enjoy that as much as i did. Don't forget a matter of perspective. The new anthology album from drew is our right now collecting. Not only their best works today but also new versions of old songs as well as some brand new material as well and if that's not enough if you can't get enough drew they've also got an online art gallery. That goes along with the end theology. It's on their discord. It's on their youtube It's a really interesting experience. You gotta go check it out. You can also follow me if you are so inclined. I'm at willie joy or at back to back pot on all social media or you can email me directly back to back odd at g mail dot com if you liked what you heard today if you'd like to hear some more of it if you would like to get more involved If you just wanna come say what up to me and hang out. We can do all of that over at the back to back. Discord the link for that is also in the description of this episode. coming out. it's a great group of people. Come share your arch. Share your music. Share your thoughts. Share your memes. All of that is at the back to back discord. That's it for this week. I hope you're doing well out there once again. Happy holidays happy almost new year by the time. You're listening to this. I it might be twenty twenty one. I don't know when you listen to these episodes. And if it is twenty twenty one and i'm sending you a message from the past right now man. I hope you're doing well. I hope you're happy and healthy. I hope the year is bringing you everything that you deserve and that you want. I'm very grateful all the listeners out there all the support you've given this show this year and i'm really looking forward to creating some memories with all of you out there in twenty twenty one so on that note Take care of yourself take care of the people around you be safe. I'm sending you lots of love and encouragement. I hope you accomplish whatever goals you're trying to work on right now. That's it for this week. I love you guys. i'll talk to you in the new year for back to back. This is willie joy peace.

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The Museum

Invention

1:09:12 hr | 1 year ago

The Museum

"Hey everybody throughout history people have been denouncing demonize for descending from the majority but that didn't stop them from speaking up unpopular is about resistors in pariahs rebels and revolutionaries people like sitting bull fool me layover in some kooky galileo in the mirror ball sisters took a chance on what they believed in and inspired real change every week host eve tells the story of someone who challenges the status quo connecting the dots between their history in the history where making today listen and subscribe but apple podcasts or on the iheartradio app or wherever you listen to podcasts see welcome to mention production at i heart radio hey welcome to invention my name is robert lamb and i'm joe mccormick you know humans are aware of history it's it's one of are key attributes not always though well to varying degrees were aware of history or we have awareness of of of what we think history debate a in a in not just their own personal history but a history across generations across decades centuries millennia even we're aware of what came before vio oral traditions andy evidence to the world around us even as we continually change things in anticipation of the future and then of course we have recorded history as well and we have any concept of history that goes beyond the concern for literal accuracy about what happened in the past i think about everything from ancient mythology is in which people tried to construct day you know not not literally existent a version of their past this something just sort of explain the present ride a all the way to the kinds of mystical histories the people still like to engage in today you know ancient aliens and all you you know half the stuff on the the history shows on tv oh yeah inevitably 'em history ends up melding with smith and you really don't have to go too far back in history for that to take place for for the historical become a the legendary at least but one thing that makes clear i think is that we have a kind of craving for something that we think of as history that is not always exactly the same thing is knowing what's actually true about what happened x number of years ago right right so establishing just from the getgo that the human contemplation of history is in in of itself a kind of a complex thing a narrative a becomes a central part of it but also way complicating aspect stop it yeah and then they're additional concerns were going to get into a now when we when we think about history i mean one of the things about human use of history is that we're able to pass information on in a way that doesn't depend on are genetics so a big part of of course just recorded histories literature about the past but then a they're already artifacts of the past a rarity artifacts of the the distant past the dvd the relatively recent past artifacts of the present and all of these things find their way into museums yeah i mean think about what your feeling about ancient egypt be if you could only have read about it never could have seen any of its artifacts any it's art work you've never seen images of the pyramids never seen the the ancient figurines or the the circus guy or anything like that there would be an unnecessary texture would be lacking dear understanding of what ancient egypt was yeah and of course the today we have so many tools their disposal to say understand ancient egypt and the one thing we just we have a better understanding then ever before other still a lot of things we don't know but we but you know we're at a a the bleeding edge of our understanding right in and on top of that we have of photography we have a the motion picture a we have a computer imagery we have a whole host of other inventions that have made it at first of all made easier for us to understand what agent egypt who's like antigens made it easier for people all around the world to get a grasp of it like you you no longer have to travel to ancient egypt a as certainly even as the romans did these ancient romans out consider in their contemplation of we even more ancient egyptians and likewise you don't even have to be able to travel to aim museum that has artifacts it have been transported from egypt obviously and got a website you can go to a two books to films at cetera but the museum is still important yeah that's exactly right and it's important in multiple ways i mean i i think about the two main ways it's important number one of course is just thee preservation display of artifacts right the show you what they look like you know do give you the the physical representation but then i think equally as important is d a the contextualized literature of museum herbert of material because you you know this is often pointed out by archaeologist and historians that if we only former picture of a a pass civilization by looking at its physical artifacts there's any necessary sort of a filtering mechanism there that's time you don't see all aspects of the civilization that are prone to deter biodegradable or that are prone to erosion breaking down over time a so i mean there's there's sort of this joke about like you know if you only look at these artifacts and you don't reid about other things were see sort of artists a representation of what these other things surrounding these artifacts might have been you could assume that everyone in each in egypt like walked around in stone enclose yeah yeah or you know there are all these are all the sculpture churn ancient rome was unpainted and you know stoic and gray i mean it's it's essentially incense v a marquee logical and anthropological are very much like a paleontology a you know it's it's one thing to look at these even be reassembled fumbled end in the reasonable fossils of prehistoric creature not but then there are all the things that did not survive a did we have to a piece together a to get a full understanding of what this creature was or might have been yeah the the skin across time a that could all be represented in interpretive materials were museum so those were i think equally as important as just like having an artifact in preserving it from being destroyed by the elements oh yeah like i think of like the really great museums i've been to and i and i've been fortunate enough to get the go to you know a number of them were fortunate enough to living a city that has some very nice museums is well but but there's a there's a journey you go on there is there is a story that you involve yourself fan when you're when you when you're in a really good museum or really good exhibit a in i think part of that too is like it appeals to spatial learning per instance free plug for the firm bank a museum here in atlanta a you know they have a section called the like the george walk through time and a it's it's something that you know kids grew up in the inland areas and going to for a long time and they they probably end up taking it for granted but you know there's this is like a spatial journey you do walk through time you get to a you know go through these exhibits and get kind of a you know walk through of geologic history enda in and i think that's important likewise with the with fossils and reproductions or even a taxi jeremy animals there is something about being in the physical presence of either this creature or representation of this creature that just gives you an understanding of it they don't necessarily get from a book or description or film even some sort of a a virtual to a reality simulation yeah that's right and so later in the episode we're gonna discuss some of the potential drawbacks and other considerations have about museum culture but there is certainly a thing that is great about museum culture like these these tendency in see to want to preserve history and explain it right into and also kim kun forcing emotional connection like i believe it was on the field museum i believe we we we were there together 'cause we had a a a work thing they're in a they had a un exhibit about where they hadn't artistic recreation of slave ship like walk through the hold off it ended up you know it's just a really emotional experience and just brings a you know i remember you know brian here's my eyes you know like that's an example where you know you you have this positive a emotional manipulation to a certain extent by the by the museum he'll give you this emotional connection with the topic and i think that's easy to overlook when we think of museums because you can think of them as is just a like a stoic presentation artifacts that are perhaps lacking in context or acquire a great deal of leading the fine print a but they could also help you feel the pain and passionate people who have been long dead right the civil rights museum here in atlanta also does a tremendous job through all sorts of like multimedia of of of you know being able to like this one exhibit where you sit at a lunch counter and you wear headphones they give you the experience of a of being a protester a daring a of the civil rights movement in america in a you know it's the little things like that often with with you know some technological bells and whistles which you've you've used wisely you can just really in in hance what the museum is able to do a from educational perspective that's exactly right and that's that's a good point about how you know museums today are much more than just a the storage and display of physical artifact mean that's the sort of classic museum tradition is like you have an object of some kind of significance it's a work of art or and artifacts found through archaeology something or you know it's a natural history maybe in the mineral or a bone or something like that and that's on display but yeah meet museums are bigger than that now they're they're in many ways is sort of just like place you can go to engage with some former other of history right and it's in or even celebrated a you know such as you know when i think of some of are are better you know science and technology museums it's hey hey space where where where science is celebrated yeah end there'll be various activities going on to eight in that celebration from say science themed play room for very small children to say a lecture series for a of forever older individuals who you know who need something more substantial so i guess the question is how did human start doing this like winded the museum tradition began when did we first get he idea that you would you would put objects on display or have some kind of a place where do you go to interact with educational materials like this right and i think the important thing there were were kind of skipping over and all of this is that is a museum ideally in in in generally the better examples that we tend to focus on are going to be open for everyone so it's it's not just a matter of oh well this university has a store room of artifacts or this up this institution this family has some wonderful piece is set aside a loop you'd you'd love if you could see it now a museum is ideally a place that is open to the people in the end in and everyone is allowed to do venture in engage with the materials and right so just the kings a treasure room of like artifacts collected from the you know from the city's he has conquered is not necessarily a museum because that's just his treasure right and you're probably not invited and it's probably better if you're not invite right there that just sounds like like a dangerous place to venture into a you know when i started thinking you just sort of casually at first you know about the history museums that sort of thing okay well what are what are some of the museums and i've been to and how old are they end if everyone else does this exercise says well i think you'll know they you know most of the museums come to mind are products of fairly recent history and obviously this holds true for the various american museums i visited and even the british natural history museum is a product of colonial expansionary wasn't found in the nineteenth century 'em spun off from a private collection in in the end we still see that that kind of movement going on to this day you know we have large private collections that are either a convicted donated to a museum or spun off into a museum of some sort but the oldest museum in the uk for instance the armories and the tower of london only goes back to fifteen ninety two with the public access emerging in sixteen sixty sixty now generally at this point in the podcast you know we talk about what came before they invention what was the world leading up to that yeah and i think probably the best exercise here is to is to and not to try and think of like a world without museums but think of the various things in history that are sort of like a museum but not quite okay so first of all we already mentioned like the kings treasurer right a you know you have conquered many cities and many great lands and maybe you you took artifacts that were sacred to them and then you brought it back to your treasure room and you kept it locked up yourself right yeah it's it's it's it's certainly kind of like a museum but not a museum and we should note i mean the mini museums i mean one of the the sort of like counter points to the good things about a museum is the lots of great museums around the world today do represent a kind of colonial wonder yeah i mean there there are cases where is their objects you know in british museums that are of great historical significance but the you know were were taken from other people around the world by colonial invaders from great britain exactly so yeah they're the kings horde of treasure is is a it's it's not a museum but at the same time it does have a lot in common and i think that's gonna be the case with all these not quite museum examples are gonna touch on you know it's also worth pointing out that you know it's been a long fashionable in in human culture just steal treasures in art from undefeated adversary unstoppable you're mind we had a couple of episodes about the ark of the covenant and of course the stories of the ark of the covenant involve it's a it's captured by the philistines and later it's capturing the in possible destruction by the babylonians and the philistines were said to have displayed the capture dark and their own temple day gone a lot of course you know this we don't know to what extent this you know there's reality behind the surface just missed it cetera but still it it it drives home the like this is this is the sort of thing people did yeah they've they were crusher defeat in enemy sack their cities will they would take a their of their treasured items back with them right now another case from a from history that that's kind of lines up with a with a lot of this or the roman triumphs in which the treasures are wealthy and armies of defeated enemies were marched through the city is a spectacle a you know along with captives a something to be executed or displayed further so sort of you know and even more intense example of sort of the the more brutal aspects of museum like enterprises seemed recalled there's a scene in this titas center onic us i think there's like there's like a parade of enemies yeah yeah like they defeated some germanic driver some right and yeah they're they're the famous accounts of that you know and it's kind of like this awful roman circus of a of a hit the thread rather they're uncomfortable to contemplate and so we we don't want that to be museums but then again like the the shadow of that is cast over even a modern museums and of course in even in just in the last century we we've seen museums rated polluted or destroyed do the military action so you know it's that continues to be the case when when groups of people go to war with each other a treasure is a artifacts items of a historical rickel troll importance a are often targeted now d a room full of artifacts were not only created win say you know a conquering power colonial power something goes and takes from one culture and brings back home people also create rooms full of artifacts from their own culture i mean a common way you find this is in tombs vhs exactly yeah i mean unstoppable remind especially we've discussed the teams of ancient egypt the terms of ancient china a these are these are examples where generally it has to do with the some contemplation of the afterlife or they or at least be idea that if if there is not a world for the ruler to pass into and presumably take their things then there is still some continuation simulation of identity in the body is preserved and therefore worthy be items the wealth all the material possessions some form of them need to be preserved there as well yeah so it's kind of like a museum but for the most part you were not invited to enter into generally it's it's looked down upon yeah it's not designed to serve and educational purpose senate doesn't have interpreted materials these these you're just i'm taking all my luke to the next world right and i might put a crossbow trapped in there just in case you try enter now another we we touched a little bit on on this already us bringing up day gone but a a temple is another example of something that's kind of like a museum a place where valuable and important artifacts may will be displayed for lots of people and if not everybody then at least for a key demographic to view ended meyer and in many cases the works ahrends instructional in nature a means of seeing the form of a god or goddesses or visually contemplating complex theological concepts steps like one sees a particular way in tibet in art i mean i think about these these relics and a bread the ways the many a catholic basilicas will say preserve the remains of a saint did person yeah yeah yeah so we kind of have like a dash of the tomb there as well right but there's something kind of museum me about that is an object from the past it's on display for people come look at yeah yeah and then there's also the shrine which you know give me something like tune in something like a temple but of course they are secular versions of this is well throughout the world i mean you go to washington dc and you have all these you gotta these monuments these essentially shrines in these oftener about celebrating something that is tied to cultural or national heritage large scale statues is well public statues generally a good example of this as well right now speaking of shrine this actually brings us to the word museum itself so a museum derives from the latin a what is it a most ian which means precisely this a shrine to the muse is the news is of course with the greek goddess of creativity in inspiration oh yeah so so so we got a shrine does amuses is the museum and then that becomes the idea of the museum i guess that that word coin probably much later to refer to what we think of this museum right for instance if we go back to the third century bc we have the museum of alexandria consider which included the famed library of alexandria and he was founded by telling me the first soldier and a neutral being who is notre dame of traveling companion in chronicler of alexander the great however the museum in this case was was not a display of collected art buddy center of learning that ultimately has more in common with the university a you know the we might think of today in a this was a seemingly destroyed in the late third century see 'em but yeah more more like a university a place of learning a place where a learn it individuals would gather and celebrate knowledge so you got a lot of stuff kind of like this in ancient world but nothing that is quite like we think of as a modern museum right yeah i mean you can you can make a case that specific museums there museums in general reflect these general attitudes to this day but yeah none of these you can't look at any of these go like oh that wasn't museum and it's like no no is a treasure horder was really more of a temple so indeed museums are serious which seemed to be more of a modern venture right largely rooted in the private wonder rooms are cabinet of curiosities individuals and families had and then the more modern museums tend to emerge out of these traditions in fact if you look around for some of these example they oldest examples of things that are museums a few they're often pop to they're often pop up are they had the capital line museums the oldest public a collection of collection of are in the world a this is in rome dates back to fourteen seventy one end up poked a six just the force donation of art to the people of rome you have the vatican museums have their origin is a public in public display in fifteen o six under poke the julius second but a then we might be tempted to stop there right and say oh well okay well there you go this these somebody earliest examples but a there is much older example oregon to end this episode that a certainly predates anything that happened with the catholic church yeah and this one also i guess is a matter of interpretation because what you define this museum is going to be a matter of interpretation but this is going to be a the earliest known museum according to a the great british archaeologist charles leonard woolley so we don't know for sure win the first museums created but i think there's a really reasonable chance the earliest museum we know about was actually the first one in history a so let's take a journey danged mesopotamia oh yes let's do all right so we're going to go to the city or or was once one of the great power power centers of ancient mesopotamia and if you see photos of the santa covered ruins of the city in this partially restored great vigor out today it might be hard to imagine that this was once like i really thriving lush fertile settlement moment in the ancient world today at situated in the desert of southern iraq about sixteen kilometers or about ten miles from the euphrates river and a and this is a rough measurement calculated through google maps it's about two hundred and fifty kilometers were about hundred and fifty miles of from the coast of the persian gulf and i've read in some sources that in ancient times a or was considered more like a coastal city that i guess the persian gulf stretched farther up a in into where you would now have southern mesopotamia abbott in ancient times euphrates river it took a different course and it ran much closer to the city making it this this lush fertile place that was a this is a great place versity andy it's a place considered the scale of history street because archaeologists believe it was found at some time in the fourth millennium bc so that that's gonna be many thousands of years old the us in their early dynastic period of the ancient sumerian kings or became the capital of soda mesopotamia this would have been around the twenty fifth century bc so to do a history exercise we've some sometimes done stuff to blow your mind before just reminding you like how much time elapsed through the part of the world history that we think of is ancient imagine you're julius caesar and you're living in the first century bc to you as julius caesar these old kingdom of egypt which is like you know twenty five hundred to twenty one hundred bc in the ancient dynasties of mesopotamia hey me i wish you would have been you know roughly the same time those time periods were more ancient to you as julius caesar in the roman republic dan the roman empire is the us while ancient rome is significantly more recent recent us then those ancient civilizations worthy ancient romans more time passed between sar gone of a cod and julius caesar then between julius caesar in us that's the scale of the history of civilization in when you think about all the time all the relics and remains of all those thousands of years coming going it it's hard not to realize the the people who are ancient from our point of view also had to contend with history and the idea of its memory memory it's preservation in its destruction so sometimes history and even the soldier in kind of feel like recently invented concepts they're absolutely not in a great example is emile babylonian king who lives in the city or so this is a man named never need us who is the last real king of babylon before the city of or declined in power in the late sixth century bc in subsequently abandoned over the following decades a so never need us seem to have a great sense of historical consciousness he wanted to revive elements of past civilizations from mesopotamia one of the things we're eating for this episode is an article by a professor of languages and literature of ancient israel's firm acquire university named luis prank an one thing that she pointed out is it a the saint jean king now the neatest is often referred to is sort of like an ancient archaeologist king you sort of like you know one of the first archaeologist just sort of a an ancient indiana jones type here sort of except he's a king so he's got all this power to command with the belongs in a museum mentality 'em so yeah so so this ancient sort of archaeologist king apparently he conducted excavations to retrieve lost written record's from past civilizations of the area a it later in life he attempted to restore the ruins of the great sumerians eager out of order that had cade significantly forget only by his time you may have seen representation their pictures of the cigarette a in in what we're seeing is they restoration of nab anita's restoration of the cigarettes in through several it's got a few different coats of paint on it and that alone you know brings up the question of you know the authenticity with artifacts you know like right like which one is the real ziggurat i mean they're all the garage but but the but the but then you know we you know we have to take into account like how much time has passed to and then when the what the extent that get in our way of understanding the past yeah yeah it's a weird question a to just think about if something was restored in the ancient world after having decades for hundreds of years is that just as original the us basically i mean i dunno it's it's it makes you question the concept of what in original artifact is what is archaeological authenticity and maybe it's some degree a it to some degree undermines the concept of originality which might be a good thing will talk about that later again 'em but yeah so he he attempted to restore the ruins of the great sumerians a garage door he he was also she was a religious revivalists bringing back cult traditions they had long fallen by the wayside specifically he revived the cult of the moon god scene also known and that's spelled like sin like esi in this round scene also known to the ancient sumerians ends is the god non now the city of or has a lot of cool stuff about it over over these you know thousands of years but one of them is that it has some of the most awesome hype priestesses in history i know she's come up on stuff to blow your mind before one of my favorite ancient mesopotamia figures is the earliest known named author of a work of poetry so not necessarily the first poet ever but the first poet in history whose name is recorded unknown to us in this is these ancient agent sumerian poet princess in high priestess in had you wanna oh yes yeah in edwin outlived in or long before never need as she lived in or when it was an ancient sumerian city stayed in the twenty third century bc see under the rule of her father sargon of cod in in tijuana was appointed by sar gone is the high priestess of the goddess in on a in the moon god nona under that might be kind of confusing the goddess is in on in the moon god is just nona and then of course later became scene so technically her title is in in which is they position of religious in politicals significant she refers to herself as the radiant in of non in one of her great works of poetry known to us is known to us today is exultation of in on the goddess which is this amazing poll and the look up a you should especially look up a trans translation of exultation of donna if you're ever trying trying to like work up a real sense of defiance and righteous anger the best stuff a robber would you indulge meter reader few lines certainly okay from the exhortation of donna this is from the translation in the james pritchard addition in nineteen ten seventy five you have filled this land with them like a dragon vegetation ceases when you thunder like you sure you bring down the flood from the mountain supreme one who are being on of heaven and earth who rain flaming fire over the land who have been given the me by on queen who rides the beast okay i got one from later my queen all the great god's flood fled before you like fluttering bats could not stand before you're awesome face could not approach you're awesome forehead who consumed you're angry heart these him zor amazing and they are definitely worth looking up so you've got in head wanna she's the fireball hurling poet of the high priestess of the moon god not in or in the twenty third century bc and then a little less than two millennia later you've got this neo babylonian king nab anita's ruling over or who's looking back into the past an in looking back into the past one thing he decides to do is revive the worship of the moon god not who they now called scene and lights are gone now the neatest appoints his daughter the priestess this of the moon god consulting ancient record's to get details about what this moon priestess role would be like what the the duties would be what the rituals would be a this is a point the price makes in her article is this like looking back into the record's for what the priestesses role would be because he's in a way sort of trying to be the next are gone so who is the the the priest is the daughter of nab anita's who gets this role well her name is in goldie nano also known as bell show teen and unfortunately we know far too little about who in goldie nano was but we do know that in addition to her religious role in goldie nona is record as having been administrator of a school for young priestesses a but so inequality non it was more than just an educator shoe is more than just a princess more than just a high priestess of the moon it's here that we come to the first museum known history because it appears the inequality non out was it's curator and this is a this is fascinating to behold because we have not only you know the you know the the case for the museum but for a strong case for you know why it was created what purpose it served a the ruler of the day yeah exactly so maybe we take a break when we come back we can have a look at the museum today's episode is brought to you by sent 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right we're back were discussing the history of the museum as we know and understand it today and were looking at what may well be earliest example of something that we can reasonably call a museum yeah and and so we should look again at what would be the criteria that right how would we know if we found the first museum in history a because we've discussed before just having a treasure room of artifacts isn't really a museum amine so a museum as understood today has two main parts right and he's got preservation an interpretation you've got objects artifacts litter preserved served and kept on display this preservation aspect and those objects or explained in contextualized by educational interpretation materials you know like the little written placards you find next objects at a museum exhibit today and i think it's also important that it must be cleared the this institution has some sort of public educational purpose right it can't just be like a private thing this just for you right it's about it's about sharing this information with the world and we see that in are you know are are are best examples of museums you know say like a really good science and technology museum is about you know sharing the a passing the torch of of of of scientific inquiry in the end been celebrating what it can do for human civilization and then on the other hand you have say a gay creationist museum which takes a different approach a new buddies ultimately trying to do the same thing right it is it is it is using artifacts facts are supposed artifacts i mean sometimes it's using actual of remnants of the past but then using it to push in a different narrative i guess that's true like even if we judge educational purpose of a museum to be misguided guided and leading the incorrect conclusions i mean i guess build if the goal of it is a is educational according to the people who made it even if that education is you know maybe a look make making your king look good or something right you could consider that form of a museum right i mean certainly even better museums have had to evolve with the times and the great to have you changed the way they represent a particular things from a cultural up even historical standpoint to a you know did either a you know keep up with the with changing norms to correct past errors and then you know and also to to take into account new information about a a these cultures and the time periods they're presenting well yeah that's exactly right i mean one great thing sing about modern museums is you know they can often be a way to see in other cultures that you might not encounter first hand but you know a lot of these exhibits if the museums been around a long time they may have initially been established with the kind of condescending colonialist attitude tutors right that that's sort of shows other cultures but in a way that might not be accurate maybe the looks down on them the doesn't regard them as you know equally valid cultures right i mean it's important to note there like the the basic ideas museum a you know it could be skewed for different purposes i mean there's a difference between the new museum in philadelphia and say hey you know eight circus sideshow a you know just like a display of a reserve a human remains with either no context or faulty contact regarding what a those jars contain there's a difference between an actual museum about say human evolution anta the big foot museum do we have the north georgia mountains right which is a wonderful museum but if it has it has a definite agenda detriment narrative but it's pushing and hopefully a lot of people go there are engaging with the sort of tongue in cheek or people were able to suspend disbelief you know and enjoy but but yeah it's it's a slightly different excerpt of exercise or any roadside attraction of you know from decades past where where something maybe on display that is a you know there's maybe a you know lacking in terms of a it's a you know scientific or historical you know believability right so i guess i'm trying to say is we often think of a museum is a medium as opposed to like message right okay so to get back to end the goldie nona a throughout the nineteen twenties and thirties there british archaeologist named search charles leonard willie who worked on the excavation of these ancient city of or andy nineteen twentyfive willie in his colleagues were excavating abe babylonian palace within ancient city and began to uncover very strange clustering of artifacts within this palace were artifacts from different geographical locations in different periods of ancient history only we arranged together in this one building ended appears this collection is created sometime around the year five thirty bc now the earliest artifacts they found went back almost to the time of sark on and then had to wanna they they went back to about twenty one one hundred bc e a n again i was trying to find a point of comparison ver historical scale so if these people living in the sixth century bc had artifacts from twenty one hundred bc that's like us today having artifacts from the personal effects facts of attila the hun new well invading the western roman empire in the middle of the fifth century see that's the rub the approximate time difference a so what was among this collection of things that will they discovered here in this in this ancient site one thing was partially restored remains of a statue of the great king shoghi of or who ruled in the twenty first century bc an you might remember shoghi came up in our episode about walls actually because shoghi is credited did with the creating one of the first known defensive boundary walls in history the wall he built this known as the wall of the land dorthe am right wall or they keep her at bay of the nomads little on the nose how it was it was designed to defend sumer against tax from new nomadic people's filthy animal rights who lives to the north of them in shoghi while is thought to have been more than a hundred miles long stretching between the tigris in frady's river a end in this this other episode they quoted from an ancient sumerian home which you mentioned it by recalling witness told you how quote the wall of negi extended out over the desert like a bird net you know comparing it to this thing they used actually catch birds and so in this poll from the speaker tigers lamenting how you know there were better days back when they're civilization had been more powerful and more glorious and it was the time of shoghi in this wall but in reality of course these walls did not accomplish the goal of protecting sumer which fell to invasions from the am rights and the film i it's it was not an effective strategy in the end in his own auto biographical writings on the excavation of or charles leonard ruling know something interesting about this statue of shoghi so he describes it quote as a a fragment of deer right statue a bit of an arm of a human figure on which wasn't inscription in the fragment had been carefully trimmed so us to make it look neat in preserve the writing so there appears to be evidence events here of an ancient preservation work to keep the carvings on the statue from being damaged and they keep the logical a also among the things found here was an ancient kassai boundary stone type of artifacts known as cooter now cooter ru or stone boundary markers used in ancient mesopotamia in these things are pretty cool it's kind of like if you could have a stone pillar but they written copy of the deed dear house noting how you got the land in which notaries witness the sale of the property and also possibly containing carvings of god's celestial objects and monsters indefinitely curses full of curses the cooter in in goldie not as museum is from a around fourteen hundred bc and willie noted that it contained in awesome curse against anybody who displaced or destroyed stone so a water these curses lake right i was looking at an example of who drew excavated from tel aviv haba so it's not the same crew but it's curse warning a tells about what you cannot do or else space the curse so it says wins whoever in days become among future men an agent or governor or ruler or anyone or the son of anyone at all to show rise up and then respective that field show make a claim or kausar claimed to be made or she'll say this field was not presented or she'll changed that stone from its place or show casted into the water or into the fire or show break it with the stone or because of these curses show fear and she'll call is a fool or a deaf man or a blind man to take it up and said in a place where it cannot be seen that man shall take away the field may onto the father of the gods cursed him as a pro this covers so i'm about to get into exactly what the curses and the second but i love this it's like okay you cannot erase the wreckage of who owns this field you can't throw it in the water you can't throw it in the fire you can't get a blind person who can't reid these warnings to pick it up for you and do it for you know one one wonders if they were to say this is simply a you know they were just thinking of potential loopholes or if this had been a loophole there was employed fry a hit there was there was a blind individual who is often employed to muck around with people's property rights right okay so here's what happens if you violate this this boundary marker you you tried a movie theater something a here's a little bit of the curse play a the first line has some illusions so it's it's mad dog the lord of the crops do something it's been worn off but after that it gets going maynard goal and his destruction not despair his offspring may shoot mouna and shoe maly a pronounced evil against him mail the gods whose names are mentioned on the stone curson with a curse they cannot be loosened and maybe they commanded he not living single day may not let him know his name nor his seat in your days of drought years of famine made they assigned for his lot before god king lord in prince may his whining u s and may come to an evil and that's a pretty stiff curse yeah okay mayors whining be continuous so a quote from charles leonard willie's own account of the other objects they discovered apart from these two we just explained a quote then came a clay foundation cone alerts the king about seventeen hundred bc then a few clay tablets of about the same date and a large votive stone mace head which was on inscribed but may well been more ancient by five hundred years what rita think here were half a dozen diversity objects found lying on an unbroken brick pavement of the sixth century bc yet the newest of them was seven hundred years older and then the pavement and the earliest perhaps sixteen hundred and so will he writes the evidence made it pretty clear that it was impossible at all these different artifacts would have ended up arranged together like this by accident and he he notes again trimming of the inscription on the shoulder statue which seems like a deliberate act of preservation and then finally came they answer for what they were looking for a woolly writes quote then we found the key a little way apart list small drums shaped clay object and which were for columns of writing the first three columns were in the old sumerian language and the contents of one at least were familiar to us for we had found it on bricks of bore sin king of or or in a two two two zero bc andy other two were fairly similar the fourth column was in late semitic speech d's it said are copies of bricks found in the remains of or the work of burcin king of or which while searching for the ground plan of the temple of the governor or found and i saw in road out for the marvel of the beholder is an willie notes the scribe who wrote this inscription overestimated the accuracy of the copies of these bricks but nevertheless willie recognize the significance of this find quote the room was a museum of local antiquities maintained by the princess bell sheltie norwich remember is another name for inequality nona who took after her father a keen archaeologist in the collection was this clay drum the earliest museum label noon drawing up a hundred years before and kept presumably together with original tunnel bricks as a wrecker of the first scientific excavations at or that's incredible you know to to just a you know imagine these truly ancient people you know someone walking into this room seeing a curious old object and then potentially rating and inscription to see what it was yeah how it factors into their own history yeah yeah it's amazing in the fact i think it's interesting that they've got they've got copy is also notes about copies of things which would be like the way the mini museums today have not necessarily an original artifact reproduction or say a cast of a fossil the my ride easy original thing of course you know the the funny irony there is that many fossils they're not even be original journal bones they write their own they're actually logic castings created by you know without creative a human intervention yeah and i think that's an interesting thing you know we we feel like we need to make the distinction of course it's like well you could have the real thing here you you could ever reproduction of it in in somehow there's this sense among many people i think and i i admit i sometimes feel this i probably shouldn't but i feel like the reproduction is like not as good wouldn't it be better if they're real original thing were there and i i wanna break myself with this thinking by the end of the episode yeah i mean 'cause i found myself caught myself thinking a similar thing about restored works before you know like if you see 'em you know pictures of what the sistine chapel looked like before and after restoration one might be tempted to say well it was it look better before they restored it which is kind of a silly thing the the the thinker say 'em but we get kind of attached to like be the sort of the historical wear and tear on a thing yeah we we get attracted to you know to the ruins end in a we have a at least mixed feelings about restoration efforts i mean we we've talked about before leaving ceptable you write about the parthenon on a like the parthenon is a great example of this because would be original parthenon you have various waves of destruction 'em edition and then considered reconstruction in their voices on different sides and should richard restore the actual parthenon to its former glory of and then if we do have restored to former glory which former glory right now and then likewise we have the the parthenon in nashville tennessee which is i restoration in a model essentially a scale model model of the parthenon you could walk into and and look around i think that's the right model i i don't think they need to go messing around with the ruins of the parthenon but i like the idea of just like building other parthenon elsewhere right but then also there's just simply effort in in preserving right yeah because also you don't wanna just say you know if you have say the ruined remains of some some old building a that is important you also don't want it to continue to erode or should you be open for the to continue into a road i mean it's the question yeah yeah and there's a we were talking about this before we came in on the episode but you know i think in a way there's almost kind of eight eight eight tacit belief in sympathetic magic it makes us like the idea of the original artifact whatever it was we we likely ideas like you know actual artist touched this yeah in or actual person in history war this an reproduction feels less powerful full to us because we buy into some strange form of sympathetic magic right it just doesn't have that magic spark if it wasn't the real thing from the time that somebody actually touch yeah yeah you wanna touch it sometimes you wanna lick an and you're not allowed to put their highest and you have a lot of the suited individuals standing around a ready to intervene if you start pointing a little too close to a particular a work of art or posing yourself you're just a little bit too close to do it is because we we do want interact with it you know we don't wanna we wanna stand in its presence but yeah we also kinda wanna actually physically make contact with it yeah so concerning a in the goldie non as museum of course as we now we've been talking about this would not be the only place where powerful people in ancient world had collected relics of days past you know many kings of the ancient world would have understood old relics and artifacts to be sort of genre of treasured linked in display you're wealth wealth and power but what makes these artifacts in a in a goldie nanos museum really seem like exhibits in the museum is is what will he notes that they were accompanied by carvings the bore interpretive data explanations of what you were looking at end the fact that it was associated with in goldie non a school for young priestesses that sort of some inslee idea the this buildings they museum is likely created with an educational purpose the students we'd go in and look at this stuff in reid about what it was and say like this is their history this is are heritage look at these objects antler i just another passenger i came across there's another book where willie discussed a in a goldie not as museum in commented quote that there should be a collection is altogether in accordance with the antic wherein piety of the age and especially of the ruler never need us who with his daughter this building is probably to be associated it a so he's he's saying that in this age in ancient mesopotamia in the city or a and this would go along with everything we know about and avenue just trying to restore the cigarettes and doing archaeological excavations and all this that there was this spirit of nostalgia you know they were sort of unusually obsessed with the past four or people of their time in place and i wonder what what triggers that you know what clause is a civilization to suddenly take intense interest in preserving in reconstructing the past like napa need us in inequality nona well i wonder if a lot of does come down to sort of like the spatial understanding of things need to be you know in in environment of the past you know the fully comprehended on on on almost animal level yeah i guess so i mean part of one thing i think that's attempting historical interpretation is that we know the the dynasty they created the museum wouldn't last like as i mentioned so this museum is created around the year five thirty bc in the city of or went into declined after the reign of napa need us and was abandoned almost completely sometime in the following decades centuries a this is probably because of local climate change where these frady's river the bed shift is and moved farther away from the city in that combined with drought to basically turn this once fertile power center into this abandoned desert ghost city in so it's tempting i think for us to look at that and say oh you know this this is the end of a long civilization in this area of maybe maybe they since they were at dnd and this is what made them you know the soviet style gic the past and wanna create this first museum like they this is their greatest hits album right but i you know i don't know if that really makes sense because i don't know if they thought they were living toward the end of their dynasty you know that's right i mean a museum doesn't need to weaken easily falling to the line of thinking the museum is a is a place of dead things those things things it is that they're no longer around important only historically but we have plenty museums today there about a you know celebrating things that are alive so rating movements that are still happening in in in are still on finished a we'll be works of art that we talked about this susceptibility blow your mind that are that are had been left unfinished either a just suzy accident accidents of human life or intentionally make some statement about a about the nature trip human progress and so i think it's it's reasonable distinct it some of those elements would very much have been in play in ancient times you know to to realize it like the i mean because we talked about it being used as an educational space yeah so it would have been and you know not they would have had this it would have had a spirit of a of renewal to it i would imagine an educational place in place of religious significance so as part of the school is part of a inequality non us school for priestess right so yeah it makes you wonder about the interplay of the religious impulse also west they desire to preserve and display elements of history yeah all right well on that note we're gonna take a quick break and when we come back we will discuss the legacy of the museum in in some some current ideas about where we stand in regards to the music are you following your passion i'm carla murray the host upside hustlers i talked to people following their passion outside of their regular job everyone either has a side hustle or wants to create a side hustle get inspired to start your own business or just hear the story in hustle of every very sad hassler get motivated woodside hustlers listen and subscribe on the iheartradio app at apple podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts are back so one thing we sort of mentioned earlier is the you know i i love museums sam's i'm i'm a big fan of you know natural history museums and cultural history museums and they do a really wonderful thing 'em but also you know there are a lot of drawbacks to museums especially some you know how museums used to be i think a lot of museums are doing a lot of work in recent years to try to like a disentangled the nature of their educational exhibits from say you know colonial legacies and stuff like that right into you know do do what needs to be done to honor say you know living thriving cultures that they're artifacts represent yeah so they're important questions to ask about what museums represents today in how you know what role they play first culturally and maybe how they could be made better yeah a lot of it comes down to questions of ownership trip not only who owns a particular item you know this this is this piece of this painting belong to a certain family or no doesn't belong to this museum now does it belonged to the nation in which the museum is house like he goes beyond that it gives in considerations like who owns the past and and who owns the story of the past so we're looking at a an excellent magazine essay on the subject titled who really owns the pass by american archaeologist michael press andy i recommend everyone check this out but some of the key points that michael mixer really worth thinking about here he points out that are are crew way of thinking about heritage a beginning to take shape in the nineteenth century both in the west end in the middle east a the westerners were pretty quick to disregard local emerging laws concerning artifacts a you know considering the attempt by role local rulers lord over the dead and interfere with what they seem to just see is this sort natural migration of artifacts to europe yeah this interpretation of a you know says on one side you know the locals might be saying well we need some laws in place to keep these artifacts from wandering outside of our borders and then they the colonial impulse was more oh no these belong to the world where so this this everybody's heritages the world happens to be in london the world's back in london going to take right back there and also a anti claus is we know them today and really emerged out of the post world war two period so international agreements such as the nineteen nineteen fifty four hey convention in the nineteen seventy nineteen seventy two unesco conventions a place in new emphasis on national sovereignty and on national heritage but still the question remains who owns artifacts of the past in who owns the story if the past because again you can think of the museum as as as medium first story you know there's in in we we often forget this when we really place a lot of trust in say a the matt or the natural history museum you know i think we generally trust these institutions for good reason you know two percent the best interpretation of the history or the science or they or thee artistry is on display in wiessee again various museums make an effort to change their displays the honor and involving understanding of the past or to honor living cultures they depicted cetera but press points out the window nation nation nation states themselves only artifacts owned the pass they used these treasures to push nationalistic agenda so michael press writes quote governments increasingly looked to remains of the distant past bolstering national identities any sense of greatness or marginalized disfavored groups so dumb hussein used the ruins of babylon spread ideas of racks greatness as well as his own even portraying himself as a modern never condenser china's leadership has used archaeology project national national greatness onto the distance legendary past today india's prime minister narendra modi's hindu nationalist government has worked user archaeology approved the modern hindus can trace their dissent from the earliest inhabitants of india so you put this sort of thing in place and you know you he says you actually invite looting you actually invite to the damage because history is made the survey engines of nationalism or or what have you you know looting becomes a potential active resistance an we've actually seen this he points out an example you know one example would be the destruction of monuments in syria in iraq by isis and then on the other side of the equation you know the whole colonial movement was steeped in arguments of these were items of global heritage and and this is used to justify defy removing artifacts from native lands seattle i mean i i like the idea that there were things there you know the common heritages humankind for history but what does that actually mean in practice ryan you say okay in practice it's the common heritages humankind so that means will take it somewhere in europe or the united states right i mean 'cause yes when you when you look at the the movements of culture when you look at even they early migrations of human beings you could make a case to say well these artifacts endear part of my culture as well they're part of my heritage's well but it's another thing to say that means that they need to be relocated to a two year city you know right or country or that you know you're nation has accumulated claim to it but then again is is he wants it's on this article you know it gets this is still a very complicated a scenario you bring in a you know the fact that you have a day and age you have people from various nations spread all over the world and and so it's not always as simple as this cultural groups stole this cultural groups belongings sometimes it is well yeah i mean it it's weird because it's hard to say who owns the past but then again something definitely feels wrong about just say a colonial power taking artifacts from one country and then taking them back to the home right absolutely another side of the city points out that i hadn't really thought about is it in some cases you have a designated unesco world heritage sites that you know these places where it is a place of of very important historical significance of the needs to be preserved also ends up being kind of thing people wanna visit and that could actually impact local communities forcing the removal of people either to you know to to allow the study of this location or to make way for developments associated with the sites new historical significance oh yeah end in then then you throw a various other a political factors into the mix and it gets even more complicated points out that in the case of syria multiple parties have used heritage as a weapon of war a obviously isis but also brings up a a russia and even the united states using a you know celebrations of of of archaeological materials is being sort of part of the overall messaging associated with whatever side of the the politicals scenario the player happens to be on any d does drive home that it is it it's messy you know when you have all these different factors playing into the the past and these artifacts in the past but he points out the cultural heritage experts proposed several ideas for a better future of museums and i so just to to run through them really quickly the three main points are a number one give more control to local communities not national interests those sort of on the ground with people rather than with national governments writes the second one is to reduce the importance of original a which we talked about a little earlier oh yeah this this one is a tricky one to think about i'm one of the reasons is thirty points out the you know in in there's this high western priority placed on leave original item the original work of already original carvings etc but he we you know we have long sing a different approach and eastern cultures which were more about just you know preserving and recreating the thing itself the work itself legos more about the the messaging the work 'em but it but it it it is you know is is someone who loves museums you know it is hard to get past that like there is something really awesome about standing in the presence of be actual work or they you know they actual 'em remains that have been transported here a but then when you take into account all these other factors we've been discussing you you do have to ask yourself well would it really make it any less impressive if it was just a really fantastic a rick creation of a particular worker particular carving i mean certainly when you get into sculptures it's a it's a lot easier like i i can easily see that being the case like do i really need the actual let's say it's a statue of david a new do i need that transported over hit a look at her what if it was just a perfect copy i think i think i would be happy with that and if i'm happy with that a would not apply to various other a museum artifacts is well especially the context is really good if the narrative is really good yeah i mean i think that is something that you know people who are the audiences this is from museums should try to adapt themselves to be more satisfied with high quality rick creations and a you know a casts and you know it all kinds of things that don't necessarily involve having the physical fickle original there yeah especially now when you're gonna have all those additional information you have pictures of the original videos of the original additional a technological interactions with the media about the original piece but then you also have this physical up a recreation you can enjoy as well yeah exactly oh the third point that he makes though is that we should rethink v idea of heritages as property at all we should have something along the lines of open access heritage again in a very interesting but also potentially challenging way to think about it like forces the turn some of our experiences of museums on their head a and but but i could i could see that working though because certainly some of the the trickier parts of all of this is just the treating heritage as something that is a that is property in their property rights tied up with it and then say museum just cannot return a particular artifacts to the these the culture it came from because of some sort of a property property issue oh i thought about that but yes i guess sometimes things are probably on loan to museums from people who supposedly owned them right but like why does that person own them it might be because you you know somebody way down the line stole it and then left them or gave it to you know yeah or they just acquired if not through like like outright an obvious a military or colonial treachery then perhaps through you know an economic pressures that would not have been there had not been pretty colonial influence to begin with yeah this is a difficult issue it definitely worth giving thought to especially if you're a person who frequents museum yeah and really only only scratched the surface here on on this issue because they're also additional layers to consider with the with the you know archaeological artifacts such as a what a limb meskel calls negative heritages what do you do about a i'm a historical artifacts tied up with a you know a lot of negative aspects of society you know maybe it's tied to say you know racist ideology is there something what do you do with those artifacts how do you treat them i think one possible answer there is that you you have make sure that the context of the museum that is presenting them you know it's taking all that into account a but anyway as as as as michael dry something like this is still another complicated area when we we we try to figure out exactly where the museum is headed in the future yeah all right well on that note we're gonna have gotten close this one out but obviously we'd love to hear from everybody we know your favorite museums you would like to a a mentioned on the to to us perhaps we've been to them as well or maybe you point out some new smaller museum we've never even heard of them will be able to put that on our radar for a future travels as always if you wanna support the show the best thing you can do is rate and review us wherever you have the power to do so make sure you subscribe do invention is well it just tell your friends about it is the next time somebody asking around hey what if some good podcast listen to throw are named in the mix a you know alternately that that word of mouth that really makes all the difference huge thanks as always to are excellent audio producer tari harrison indoor gas producers day my coal if you'd like to get in touch with us with feedback on this episode or any other suggestions topic with the future let us know about your favorite museum or just to say hi you can email us at contact step invention pod dot com then genetic production i heart radio podcast i heart radio and the iheartradio app apple podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite shows everybody would really love a good cooking show around here now they're just so many wonderful coronary podcast returned to his well and the latest is through three sixty with mark murphy is a celebrity chef and

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#1917 Recession Proof: How to snap back from sudden financial loss

Mixergy

1:05:00 hr | 1 year ago

#1917 Recession Proof: How to snap back from sudden financial loss

"Freedom fighters my name is Andrew Warner. I I'm not GonNa do the whole I gotTa tell you. This is exactly what I was looking for when I put out a call on twitter saying. Is there anyone who's doing better now? We're doing well now post the CO Corona crisis Despite what's going on and the reason that I say that today's guests Michael lexuses perfectly exactly what I was looking for is because he is the inspiration that I think that we need just before this whole thing hit the guy. Bought Museum Hack a company that he was very closely affiliated with. And we'll understand what How within the scenario the whole idea behind museum hackers? It they take you take your loved ones. They take your co workers. They take you and other people into museums now number one you can get into museums right now number two. You can't get next to your loved ones. You can't get next to strangers. You can't get next to your co-workers. How does a guy who suddenly running his business deal with the situation? And as I'm saying this you guys can't see it. He's got a smile on his face because he's recognizing it but he also has a smile on his face because I feel like this whole situation has taken a deeper emotional toll on most of us than we realize. Despite that he found a way to turn things around anyone online he created us. I guess a spin off business second business. It's called team building dot com where they provide team building activities. That your people will love but it's done online and what we've found now is that there are a couple of things that Michael. I think. I'm understanding this. Business is two things number one. There are a lot of people like the the good people at my kid's schools who don't know how to do any remote anything right and now suddenly they have to figure out zoom and remote interaction and all that right so they come to team building DOT COM and they sign up for a program where they could. They could learn how to do remote work better and number two. There are people who are feeling disconnected from the people. They're working with even though they're on slack zoom with them and so those are some of the problems that team building dot com. It's all being and because he solving it instead of crashing into a wall and feeling defeated in blaming her own and really rightly rightfully so saying this crap happened. He's making things happen in keeping people in his company going anyway. Michael Lexin I have known each other for years. There's fair fair to say that they would not be revenue at Mixer. G Not real revenue mixture. Gee if not for him and I really appreciate him forgetting me going when I was starting. I'm hitting him for being here. I appreciate him for being here. Even though he has stuck on an island will talk about that. We'll do it all thanks to two phenomenal sponsors to I. If you WANNA get a sense of how your customers feel about Your Business and then understand why. They're feeling that way. You gotTA check out the lighted dot com slash mixer. And the second. If you're building your business. This is the time nearly to take care of your business. You're thinking about. How do I garden in the backyard and raise potatoes razor business to and I'll tell you why click onnell's is the tool to use to help you grow? Your Business. I Michael Good to see you. It's my pleasure to be here. I've been humbled by Indra. This was their minute when you freaked out because I see you smiling. Was there minute when you I freaked out. I wouldn't call it a head. I assume you're talking about what happened with but that's not the environment. Yeah was there period any anything that made you feel like. Oh Holy Crap. What's going on? Yeah we had a couple of interesting early warning systems are side one is said I have actively done business in China in the past and still have a lot of friends and relationships there We do this now and their businesses have effectively for at least three months and it's a little bit longer so we saw that coming then. I think I had a little bit more time to adjust to what might happen in the US. The second was that for us. Our clients were very quick to react. So companies like Google companies like facebook do our corporate team building events with our quitting internal travel Bam Early on and part of Bat was you know not going from office part of it. That's not holding group of that. So within a period of the three days all of our new business stuff coming in and almost all of the work has the next couple of months capital. I don't think that that in itself is unique story. I believe how to a lot of people I know. My my my. My there wasn't a freaked out moment but there was this very sober realization that we needed to make substantial changes quickly One of the things that we're gonNA talk about about all starts into now. Is We bid by museum? Hack last year We be my partner taste and I and part of a life part of that was but it was a seller finance transaction so there's significant amount of money from revenue and profit. It's still goes to work that perch it wasn't just an option for us to say okay. Well the market slow were GONNA do kind of a temporary hibernation mode be had to figure out how to fix the business which I think meant. There wasn't time so say like auto. What's going to happen to us? That would be maybe by ideal story to tell reality. There was one moment one moment that I've up to share so Here in the Canary Islands. Right now trying to repay super beautiful BIOS. We're actually care for a little bit but a day or two after all the way. She's happened when I climb this beautiful mountain just along the coast and Pay With decided that we weren't going to hike up a trail which ability twenty minutes We were going to stay on the mountain and we're talking about A slow climb or or crawl up at notch. Those three quarters of the way up I was exhausted. I was sweaty. I coul- I felt like I was gonNA fall off the side of the mountains and also started to have these Roommate ideas of what the company and it wasn't Hamid but it was. Oh if we can't fix it. The last five years of non stop work and Hustle after and investment that I've put into trying to build and grow our business and build and grow You know our our legacy and what I can do with my life might be wiped out so coming off that mountain there was wasn't that emotional like long in a lot but we felt empowered. We thought actually answer to do something about it. How do you snap back to being action oriented? I think two things happened one. I definitely is very optimistic. to Mexican go for three so one very optimistic to I've had financial lafi path and it's not that bad so my my cost of living is very very low. I enter you know. I looked at a ball back. Taxes is only shirt. I have one pair of short but I have a couple of other small thing but life is simple and my cost of living is very very very much so well. It's nice savings to have money in the bank. Losing some portion of it one time right I recovered. I'm actually on the more exciting things with the business that we're doing now so Very hopeful for the future and that way and then the third one was we started to seep through our marketing system this opportunity for virtual team building Barry early on And realize that well. Hey we're gonNA take very march. Hit taught revenue on a profit for if one month in the month of March. If we can make this work it may actually be bigger and may lead to a lot more work for us and for people and a lot more opportunity for what they've become a big one. I'm GONNA come back and ask you about the virtual options that you saw but what you mentioned about having financial trouble in the past is something that I noticed. Several other people who I interviewed who snap back from feeling bad for themselves have also had in the past like I think about Russell Brunson. He was in a bad economy about ten years ago. the founder of Gum Road Sawhill Lavinia. He just went to his own personal thing where he couldn't get his company to get back on track and so the investors turn their backs on him and when he recovered from that he got a sense of I could deal with other financial loss. Never as bad as I think it is I wonder for you. What was it that you go back to and remember? That was terrible. I survived it. Even if this is terrible things will be okay. Yeah let me tell you what I did. Investment Wipe So. I had long as I can remember being extremely frugal throughout school and even afterward I would say ninety percent or more of my income I would find little side Hustle Star and a little bit more to had what was eventually becoming a large emergency fund or something. We've actually had this money other than it was just like comforting to have more of it. I made a five years ago decision but I was GONNA take my entire life faded as the properties that I had all the money in the bank. I took out a loan. Them live a credit to get more access to Cashing Apple and somebody to tie the together business there and within the first few weeks I started to see money coming back about super cool so I said more about the restaurant business so I hope that you can try those restaurants so the best right now around Don pops money you saw some profit comeback you send even more than what happened And maybe maybe interesting to share number so as for me my life saving time with one hundred seventy thousand dollars. So this is the money in total that China and then it's slowed down not because business wasn't doing well but because I hadn't completely understood the agreement that I've gotten into with how cash flow is GonNa work. How capital is going to be retained in the business for later what was going to happen with. the landlord contracts in these malls powder at the restaurants were going into. It was due diligence that I should have done and understood better to understand what was going to to cash flow and so for back weight loss actually hadn't happened and frankly still hasn't happened. It's still kind of unknown. We'll go on but being there. I felt like I lost everything. I felt like my last Several years of just eighty never stay in go into restaurants and better like small ways. We find the money the housing decisions that I've made to say a few more dollars. I felt like they had been wiped out one decision to send money. It's it's kind of interesting how it's continued though the Going from having financial officer and being very slow to do whatever I wanted and North America meant that I went and tried to do freelance. My clean worth again I join. Ccm Hack as you know. A few years later ended up buying the company and buying the company just now so I kind of have when I think about healthy by an objective one. That would just say we'll see things are going. Well we'll see. Maybe maybe it's GonNa try to get if they're not going well we'll see maybe it will even investment in China like right now is when it really is still in a lot because so interesting kind of nuance but what's happening with the Chinese government. There's less financial or in what's happening in America I think that the US government has actually been very quick to act at least with the financial APP Man The recovery Federa not so the case in China landlords anybody's rights so the businesses are Bernie money very quickly. Okay and so. The reason that I had didn't even think of that but there are from what I understand coming back online faster right. They're getting closer to getting back online wasted three months but it's three months. I think they're still Auckland. Talks with time back in them. I my understanding. The report from Franson different partners is bad. They haven't seen that big debts. Not like people have gone from staying at home to flooding the restaurants in the model right right. Even if they're opening doors doesn't mean that people are going in right okay and so one of the things that I noticed in you in that period was you did. Pare your wardrobe down to as you described right now very very little. I think when we met here in San Francisco you had it all in your backpack and you turned me onto wool not being a smelly Material which I had no idea when I research I said is it possibly doesn't smell himself. Turns out you're right. I actually for my marathon in Chile and then the one in Antarctica. I did wear a wool. Like running shirt. It's the best running shirt I ever had in my life. Cost One hundred twenty bucks maybe Hundred seventy totally. Worth every intimate. But I have to say running. Those two marathons shirt did smell it. So let's say there's a limit on willow but it's a pretty high limit so I had the sense that you pair yourself down and you found that you didn't need as much as you thought you did or that you could be happy with less. Is that right kind of actually happened over the years just moving from place to place. I grew up in a small town near Toronto. I went to Vancouver for school. I moved to China Saddad. I moved to Austin afterward every time I moved. I got rid of furniture. I got rid of being. I got rid of the point where I just thought. I don't WanNa get me things. I WANNA get like one. Small bag of things Extend of all basically okay so then you also said there was a virtual customer reversal. That seemed like a glimmer of hope that you could then build on. How did that come about you? Guys do museum hack which is take people's museums and give them these radical experiences. Who came ask you for virtual experience from you can have a number of things the most Cup well-known invisible on site of public museum source. So Andrew. You in your apartment could go. We don't work at any adult over the age eighteen. You could go with friends won't be Whatever happens to the intake of anywhere between fifty dollars ninety nine dollars and a large part of the business is actually corporate. Teambuilding client flagpole. Mg like Johnson and many many others will have a group of their employees. May people many fifty fifty people go? Do and I said the idea that it's going to be a family. It's going to be relaxing. It's going to be a way to create bond between them so as part of that. The marketing system upset up. I'm fairly obsessed with Google search console and what's happening with traps volume. We'VE LYING TED. For EXAMPLE CERTAIN PARTS OF THE YEAR. You know why did why did we stop? While we can dig into local search for we can begin to other data platform to figure out what happened. Nobody nobody can do team. Christmas probably worth of July thing watching that. We saw this kind of rapid decline people searching for a team building in New York. City Chicago Corporate events in the bay area and similar searches. We ranked wildfire and. I wondered well. If those pictures are going down is anything going not from Google Search tonsil TRIM STUGGLE DOT com. And this is something I would recommend everybody Look as if your business is challenge right now and if you're trying to find a way to Medina search keywords related here and then three and see what Google bad. I noticed that when I put him where it's like team building New York City or even just the generic team building while those searches were considerably down from where they should be at this time of Year Baseball Team. Both in was three thousand percent. And it's probably more than that since then as more and more companies of Jerem. Oh so you know. The team building is one of the reasons why people come and look for you and then ended up signing up for a a museum experience you just typed in team building and you said what is going up. Let me try that right now. So I would go into to Google trends and type in team building. And that's what you did and if I do that what I see is kind of a slightly downtrend but I see the trend. Oh okay got it. Related Topics telecommuting breakout acts. Throwing for some reason that's up the virtual team topic three hundred percent Bingo for some reason. Three hundred percent wise axe again coming up two hundred fifty percent got it and then team building activities. Bay Area that Scott. It related searches. This is the type of thing that you're looking on virtual team building activities and so you started to based. Oh my God dude I just typed it. I just tapped the virtual team building activities. It's like hockey stick up. Okay so our console where you vote for the last two years. We've had to three thousand people per day. Click to us from Google and we thought that was good that kind of the to sell the carpet topic. I've got museum helping work of Art of what we did Now we're talking about like twenty thousand a day. So the trend purdis skyrocketing. Fortunately so are we in what we're seeing them sedan. Sorry let me ask you. What is Google search console? Console is a tool that will tell you the kind of high level about how people are finding your site on Google. So you can see an organized by a different pages posts on your site. You can see the search terms that they use to get there. You can see the position that Google place view for each of them for example if somebody starts with the Word Museum of course we come up number one right every single time. Somebody searches museum tours. I were page one as well. But we might be like positioned so google search has all of that data. I in a way that is a pretty clear easy to understand okay and so you starting to notice based on those tools that virtual team building activities is going up. What did you I do about that? How did you understand what they were looking for? How part of it I'd credit to an intuition comes from working in them. The St Five Years Right. We had an idea that if people had searched for team building in the past and search virtual team building is essentially the person they still want to get their people together to be some kind of event department and budgets advocates or so The intuition or the assumption was that they wanted a similar kind of experience. I Guess Twenty fifty people together in one place to do some kind of activity together. That would be fun. The actions than that came from that were a number one We started to rework all of our marketing channels marketing. And and where we're putting our time Very simple sample bad is the we cut off. I spend him on Yelp because Yeltsin certainly for local businesses doesn't pass we. We are adspend instead to go. Forward or search is raid the virtual team though remote seen building online government Federa We already had team building dot com hadn't used the site much. We were still working. Museum hacking another Smaller brand plates be has and I'd set up seen dot com with idea that we could start a building links to it and we might be able to like rise the ranks with all this little searches so that when we were ready to launch activities when we were ready to launch that France excessively would already be in a good so We went to calm. Put a virtual page that same day no matter a couple of hours and simultaneously or within that same day launch At least for products that would be very good at for the audience so for example we have one called online office game. I originally called online Olympic. Unfortunately Olympic is very very trick by turns out but it captures the event right if the theories small gains challenge to trivia mouth. It's like this really cool on Interactive Trivia. It wouldn't be name that tune it would be okay. Everybody has like fifteen seconds to go. Grab THEIR FAVORITE. Mug and then some stories to tell about the my point Another prompt for it might be. Hey you know like Andrew. How do you say I love you without using your voice and somebody might go? I know American sign language. I could do that. I get from my team. So Fun Trivia that. Let's move your body There's some other games in there that are about communication though. It's kind of a balanced the technology that there's kind of skills that people need to work with up to mine about one out of the and this was based on the experience you had with museum hack understanding what kind of games kind of experiences bring people together. Yeah with the very broad categories of being like another one that we launched at the same time. It's called tiny campfire. I it is It sounds pretty adorable. What we do is we send aid to all the attention before the event by BS with one hundred percent guarantee kind of semi virtual experience where Andrew a week before the event received Have all the ingredients to make smart as you? I can't fire. And then for the event itself we play other series of games but then the main portion of it. I isn't that half an hour. Where our former museums tour guides are now telling stories has fargo stories? So there's one example about A strong theory. That Abraham Lincoln Ghost hunting somebody. Who's driving and this is the kind of story. We thought around firewall. Everybody making more. So you tell the story and these you gotta see to actually really fully get it wants to go check it out. It's a team building dot com. It's like a little toothpick with a tiny marshmallow over a little tiny fire. That you send out to them. It's a it's a T. light and then they've got Graham cracker and chocolate equally small and they're just heating up there. Marshmallow ended listening to the story. While they're heating up the marshmallow. I imagine making there. There's more than holding it up for the camera now. They've got a shared experience even though they're not in the same room virtual kept fire. All right let me take a moment to talk about my first sponsor. It's a company called delighted. And then I want to come back and you a little bit. More about which one of these programs worked and And then what you did from there. So here's the thing about the lighted. They recognized that right now. Things are getting difficult and so if you have customers who are happy you WANNA understand why they're happy and bring that happiness that experience to other people who are happy and then if you have customers who are not happy. This is not a period where people are going to say. You know what who cares? Let's just keep it on the bill for months and months and months right everyone scrutinizing their bill very carefully and so what delighted said was Andrew. Were taking a shot on a mixture g add. Were just going to give your people this software for free. All they have to do is go to delighted dot com slash three to get it for free and what it'll do. Is it. Allow them task. Their audience asked their customers. Are you delighted with the experience and you can do the NPS test? Which is a net promoter. Score can't get a test. It's not a test. It's it's the feedback experience with a on a scale one to ten. Say How likely they are to share your site with With their friends and we know that that is a good insight into how well your business is doing. Here's the problem though. Michael and you might see this. You could put this form up using any software right type form when we have. I forget gravity forms. Whatever it is I said to them. Why would anyone use you right now if you could use these other? They said you ever use those forms. I said yes. So what'd you do? I said I felt overwhelmed. They said exactly. You don't know what's drawing what they said. We take a look using the data we in from your site and understand for example for your experience. Maybe it's the campfire experience that is actually a lower. Nps score nobody typed in. I didn't like the Campfire experience. Maybe it's people from Chicago are giving everything a low score you would know it because looking at the data and you're just seeing raw numbers we can look at it we can understand. Can I throw in the term machine learning here probably I? We don't get everything but in this case it's actually right that they are using intelligence software to understand to draw conclusions of people. Couldn't otherwise and tell you this time of day. This is what what's leading to happiness. Or maybe it's this city that's that's causing unhappiness or maybe it's this product or maybe it's shipping option. That is leading people to say that they're unhappy. They will draw those conclusions. Or listen if you want to get started go to delight dot com slash mixer. Let you try it for free. They are asking for a credit card. I said why ask for credit card. If it's free they said because we also do follow up e mail because we make sure that that you message people properly if they don't give you a high rating so you understand what to do with it and you do follow up with improperly for example maybe tournament testimonials if they did give you high rating all that stuff is automated is people can use it for spam. Were trying to keep this professional. We have a system that asks for credit cards anyway but trust US Andrew. We say it's free. It will be free and if you're listening to me and you want it for free. Go TO DELIGHTED DOT COM slash Delighted DOT COM slash. Victory is probably delighted by nose runny. Nose here it's not covert. I don't think it's cold but it's just me at naturally being Actually I always have a runny nose. But I can't hit the mute button. I mean like this weird situation Michael Ware. Nothing is exactly where I like it to be. The the whole equipment is off. I'm dealing with everyone in my house. Twenty four hours a day. We're all trying to get things done with everyone of us like in our faces. It's really really challenging Anyway so in this situation. Usually I have my whole news button if I have to do that without getting it on Mike. I hate them you button and I don't even have new button. This is this is a destroyer block going on I. I can help out of quote. Forgive you in pretty. Hey the two of us here we gotta talk a more. I don't think what delighted pay for when they said let's find out from you but they're always going to get real Andrew here. It is Delighted D. E. L. I. G. H. T. E. D. dot com slash mixer. G DELIGHTED DOT COM slash M. I. X. Y. Mixed Reggie goes to go try them for free by the way I keep wondering what the lighted paid for their domain. I WanNa ask you the same thing. You must pay a lot of money for team building dot Com. That's a functional domain. That super clear be happy to share more about that story so I joined museum hack high about five years ago. Two Thousand Fifteen Part Time. Freelance Mark Tap. I didn't know what was GONNA come a bit but Continued continued on me about that business. New This Corporate and team button with a bang also knew that we had I reached out to the owner team-building dot com in two thousand fifteen or two thousand sixteen. When we first started that this mess and at the time we couldn't afford it we didn't know how to negotiate. We didn't happen so Last year I sent her inaugural. It's a really Nice lady based in Illinois I believe and I was a little bit coy with how I reached out at Center for my g mail address. Not The museum might that? Hey you know. We're in the team building industry. Would you ever consider? I mean we're interested. I'd be happy to make you an offer and she said making an offer I Lo- Baltar afterwards and thousand dollars. I know that sounds like a lot of money to some people. It is a lot of money. It's a lot of money to me too. I'm but I knew from kind of evaluation price scene of strong keyword after the drop in the bucket I. It was very very hopeful On my heart that she might be wants to do it. Said No Much much Savvier as I tried to give her credit for and eventually counted. She said that she wanted to be within a certain range. That number was if niece excited. I. I didn't want mobile or second time. I thought that would be impulsive and I thought it would jeopardize the deal that we offered her one hundred twenty five thousand dollars Initially I'm I'm kind of a payment plan. That's what we might be able to pay for it over three or four years something like that And ultimately justified to cash feel under the transfers since because so perspective A Better Southerner. Eight years ago whenever I I registered Michael Alexis Dot Com. Maybe it was a little bit longer than that. I stressed over the seven ninety five but I paid the dream ninety five. I was one hundred percent sure that I would say about my collection. My love their my blog by go informatics and be willing to pay one hundred and twenty five grand cash upfront for domain is shift in mindset for me and how. I think about Domains HYPHEN ABOUT MARK. Clean about Doesn't scope investment etc? What did she do with her business? This is Karen Clarke Frederick. She she ran a team training leadership training business to did she. Close it up once you sold it to you so I think that I can tell you a little bit more about the stars so even with the cash offer. She wants them a hundred percent sure that she wanted to sell it and she mostly wants to know that it was going into good hand. Pushy shared a personal story. Where she that? Hey I added twenty years. She's the only person before I ever with obeyed. Seem DOT COM. She had massive difference in it. She was a pioneer in the industry. And a lot of really interesting things. A lot of Companies Son and was successful with it. I didn't ask about all the details. I got the perspective best. She's kind of nearing retirement. Or maybe hasn't been on a transition phase out and what in in a way to pass on that legacy not necessarily true actor business it could be sold. But at least kind of the brand name that she had helped and grown and builds up over the years It was a really touching from her and why it initially sent out. That coy like hi. We do this thing which accepts a little bit of money for it. I wrote a really personal back I was worried with doing so. I thought Hey I'm gonNA throw away all of my negotiation power hour like like we just this company. We don't have enough money. I WANNA give you medicine. Can you know this is how I grew up? This is what we're working on what we're trying to build. I was worried that she might see the go like. Oh this guy would pay like five hundred thousand dollars last name which I don. I didn't have we don't have limbs have been able to pay for it Instead she really good way she said you know. Thank you so much for sharing this like I feel a lot more comfortable in who you are knowing what you're gonNA do with it. Let's make it happen and a week later. His grace great domain worth the price. I thought the very first thing that you put up on on it was what was the how to work remotely program right. Maybe that's the first one that I happen to see as I was hunting through the site. It's the first one we put on the front page just because I was trying to get anything about virtual remote work on the front page and then create a virtual team building page. I wanted to make sure that At least with With our virtual team doesn't page wouldn't be competing at the homepage of the content when them school I'm less worried about that now. But that's why I don't work molding all right and so I see now on the site online office games tiny campfire verse coffee. You send people to tea and the the picture that they sent him to Kinda unique peas. Maybe a Turmeric Team. Maybe a avocado leaky as well as copies. Mushroom off the Some I don't remember the name copies talking together on a zoom call. And you do you give them a piece of paper that I see on the on the web page right now on team building dot com so that they could actually put it down like a flight the way that they would bar a paper that goes with it. So Art of savvy about these very. It was a little bit of smoking mirrors so that picture is from a trip that I had tasty that I did have some unique coffee last year and we had representing the fanatics. Because everything on your side is so frigging polished but on that one. I see there's like spilled tea on Obamacare so if you look carefully actually zoom in a little bit ideas online storytelling and how to work remotely. Which one of those did did the best? The two that are the most successful right now are online office in some tiny campfire Online office game so I think partly just because the first one on the list people and we end up having that conversation tiny campfires can be capturing the heart of the by today should the world very charming about by right. I like this thing thousand thing. For my child we went to family or with Fantasy sat around the campfire new sheriff stories from Just very strong metaphor for what people need right now An interesting shift in additional suggest going virtual for team building is the reasons why people are doing it and the benefits that they need to get from so When a company takes people to the museum or one about other bands though the Guacamole nation competition. It's like hey this is the Great Baucau I. It's like hey this is gonna be on thing. We're going to get people together. We're going to get some fun pictures with the team. Hopefully they'll tell the credit for that as well. They know what a cool company we are. A lot of reasons most with global shifts remote work so many people are working from home for the first time. And if they haven't yet they're going to stop it but it can be really really might if you're not intentional talking to other people in other people if you don't get to go to the office from say hi in the morning and have lunch with colleagues than something missing so I can't fire online office. Game are not just the way for people to have time together. It's the way they counter that kind of psychological toll of what it takes to work from home and reliable amble time. What about this? Don't I'm on zoom all day I? My wife is on zoom even more so we've got kid obligations the kids. Now have zoomed through for school. We're talking about a five year old and a three year old three year old can put up with the five old has to suffer through it. Isn't it a lot to ask team to get back on zoom and do another meeting except this one is not directly productive when they've got so much else going on in their lives? Nba Right every company. Every team out there every event has things going on. We heard some really nice feedback about the event. There was a couple of days ago where I ended at one of the guests afterwards. Like thank you so much that made me for just a few minutes. Forget everything that was going on in the world. So it's not another meeting about their business finances or what they're GONNA do next with marketing or how they're going like restructured a team or how long. Kobe it's GonNa last. It's let's get together and may be people time and do something cool all right. I get that the reason that I think that that I could relate to it was I. I saw a friend do a double date on zoom. This was Brian Harris. I saw Brian. That seems kind of lame. I wanted to spend time with my wife on the couch at the end of the day and then I thought about and I said I'm going to surprise you. I'm GONNA set up something for us for Saturday night and I invited not just one couple by the two couples. They loved it. We were done. I said we're just GONNA have wine with you guys and give you space to go like live. Your lives couples. I didn't realize it. They stayed on till midnight. The other two couples talking it was that great and we followed up the following week and it is nice to just have a conversation with people where you don't have to care that much where you don't have to be on and they're just kind of there while you're doing something else aren't I get that. And then the advantage then of having you lead it is. It's not this accord. Everyone staring at each other trying to figure out what to say. There's a professional who knows how to lead things and keep things interesting working. There are focus or so damn good staff that are running them. Now are the same people who run the museum tours that we have tens of thousands of guests year for That run the guacamole making competition to do other stuff that we've done at other parts of the year many of them are they're not full-time tour. Guide FAIR PROFESSIONAL STAND UP. Comedian that the country their performance musicians the people and they just connect with audiences. So wow and read. Little little cues and engage people so part of that part of it is that they're great at it another part. Is it somebody different right? It's not the HR manager. The events planner that the separate meeting. It's hey we brought in somebody else and I just feel like it feels yeah. Pf feels like especial fan. Feels like you're doing something. Different people could go to the museum without people could certainly rather guacamole competition at Christmas. Gingerbread words gingerbread house making competition a lot of fun they do stuff like Dombi apocalypse Gingerbread houses or dinosaur attack or something like that. They're very very cool. You could run those without us but it feels good to bring in an outside company and also for the event organizer of pavement at two and interactive peers. Instead of the person doing. So you don't have to as the boss lead. You can just be a part of the of the fun with them. I want them to know about why you're the Canary Islands. Still is it safe there And then how businesses doing like if you're willing to share some dollars and cents. I'd love to know that and then also you talked a little bit about the. Some people are freaking out before we started. You said some people freaking out and there's emotional stuff going on and I think the tactics might help them get past it. WanNa come back and ask you about that too. We I tell people that my second sponsored you know do you know. Click funnels the second sponsor you do. Click funnels did is. They said your site kind of stinks. Because it's a brochure. What you need is a funnel. Which is people come in? And they have the first step in the second step in the third step and let's be honest. We need steps that will let people who we are because they're not going to buy necessarily right away and steps that lead to a sale and the fact that they were always focused on. How do we tell people who we are and get to sail meant that? They started building software to make that really easy and Michael. A lot of people signed up for Click funnels in the past and then just held onto the account do much orthogonal signing up and then what the founder Russell Brunson told me was in March as people were forced to stay home as sadly many people were laid off as suddenly people had time on their hands and anxiety. A large number of them started going to click funnels actually setting up their funnels or setting up an account for the first time playing with it seeing what they could do and actually got themselves up in business. I interviewed him about his business with doing well. And that's the big takeaway that I got the. I'm feeling crushed by having people around me so much but at the same time not getting the freedom to go out and see people in person wishes. It's painful for me. We're all feeling some of this but there are some people who are saying despite this. I'm going to get up and do something creative. I'm going to let myself have this artistic experience this entrepreneurial experience and see where it goes and see where it leads. And frankly me doing. These interviews is part of me saying. I'm not just going to sit back and deal with my frustration. How can I channel? This is something useful and frankly for me. It's useful to hear people do well. I come back after an interview feeling refreshed feeling like others possibility. What else could I be do? What else should I be adjusting and I get more productive? So if you're out there listening to me and you haven't taken that first step to feeling and to taking active feeling better taking action is going to get you there and I think the best way to get started right now is to go to click funnels dot com slash mixture G. When you do they're gonNa let you use their software for free for two weeks. Here's what you're GONNA do great landing pages and say okay. This actually looks good now. I urge you to stop their play around with their other tools. Even if you just get rid of that landing page get rid of this funnel. I urge you to play with the tool. That lets you slide over and collect a credit card and experiment with what you would charge for and then experiment with what the next step is. Michael Alexis helped me with years. Ago was our mutual friend. Noah Kagan said Andrew. We're trying to create something. Sal I said yeah it goes well. What's the big complaint? He said. Well a lot of people in my interviews. But they don't know what to do at the end of it. He goes okay great. Why don't you just create something that helps them? They take action afterwards. That's I don't know what you create what the easiest thing you can do it. I said I don't know he and I somehow I think came up with the idea of take transcript and turn it into an action guide as said okay. I think I could do it. Except I was a pretty crappy writer. Michael Alexa said. I think I can help you. And he made it sound really good and actually feel like an action guide. Anyway at first little thing that we put up a landing page for ended up selling and then I got some feedback and improved. Got More feedback and adjusted by improved. I mean I understood what people are really looking for and what we could create an ongoing basis and that we had a business all because that little experiment I urge you to go out and do a little experiment of your own by going to click funnels dot com slash. Mix it up as I said it clicked on. I'm like a covert nightmare. It's a good thing that nobody's around me. I get so worked up. I click funnels dot com slash mixer. G Don't worry I do have like a thing that I put up on my face. WanNa see the thing that I put up on my face until I get the OH great. Hang on a second wait. I'm going to show I tell you nobody. Nobody ever sees this. Because I'm not I'm not around people Hang on a second versus Dorky. Little Kid who always wanted to have an Ascott you know what an Ascott is. It's like a handkerchief thing that you tuck into your into your shirt pieces. See men with Ascot's they're so dignified. They look so distinguished. I would like one of those but I couldn't. I couldn't bring myself to do it. This is a buff. If you're going Antarctica before you get on the plane somebody will inspect your stuff to make sure that you could survive there. And so they gave me a list of things to buy an whatever I was missing. They made me go and buy from local store and Chile before I got on my five and a half hour flight Antarctica Thankfully one of the things that I got was this buff. You know it goes around your neck. Justice like circular thing goes around your neck. But it's long enough that you can put over your mouth and so you can keep your mouth. Warm could put it over. Your ears like earmarks. You could put it over your anyway. I wear around my neck like in case I need to wear a mask but really what I want is the feeling of an Ascott and I think this looks good. Right and cool. Yeah and now look if it will no. I didn't think I can. I get it in. Well almost definitely now look if. I put it over my my nose. Doesn't this looks pretty cool right like a bad bet. Yeah it's like abandoned exactly now. It's not the most protective thing. We did have a bunch of masks. Libya Got a mask for the fire and then she. I think gave him out She's too much of a do gooder so. I don't think we have NASA but other people who have so until I get a real massacre console. Something this is. This is my thing I look. I look good in the meantime you help. Protect THE COMMUNITY. Right from my overenthusiastic spitting self. No one's in here. Don't worry I'm not getting it on all right. Let's get into let's get into you being in the Canary Island. I thought Canary Islands. Where is it Canary Islands or Canary Island Island? There are several several. I thought they were off of of UK. A little bit south of there but no off of England not south of England. It's east of Morocco right now west of Morocco. Excuse me in the record eye. That's more than I knew. I two months ago we We did a cruise with our team that was starting to talk a bit about. What's going on the messaging income crews? Hey don't worry about it. Anybody to spend China is not allowed on the boat. I was like barely outside of the window. Open able to come back from China but we did that and at the end I thought. Hey we WANNA those somewhere. We're looking for somewhere new. We want somewhere with a good Internet connection that I'm going to be able to work. But otherwise not a lot of criteria. We didn't want to go directly back to Asia. We use the fate of no bad list or something best parameters on the Canary Islands. I had no idea where it was. Looked it up. Hey it's all the north west coast Africa and It's a bad place super temperate. Climate barely rains most of the people that come here to be deaf from the UK. Or an so I if they'll be a quiet relaxing place that I've kind of fallen. I really liked beautiful barbara incident. Pretty good that took up a while to figure out where we fade out Another current we called in a technician had affects. 'cause we have longer term rental. Now I kinda unique about being here though. Is that Roy Markdown. Not necessarily because there was a major threat here because the connections I mean that Spain the Canary Islands are controlled by and when they went on lockdown We're not allowed to go outside. There's like very few flights up here and also personally I don't think good to travel a second part. It's Kinda fascinating this that with With trump's travel ban on Europe which I very mixed ambiguous information about. I think it explains me probably back to the US. Even though we have an accurate business area either bill. I paid taxes in your country. I'm Canadian If you've got a friend but it's it's citizenship base. Not Used generally likes spending a lot of time at our country as so. I'm pretty sure I can come back. Ufc I walk through this my vc league wastefully the Canary Island. Who's got a couple of We've got a long term rental on AIRBNB got got Internet. We're fighting to save and grow the distance from here. And when you're there are you saying you're in lockdown you don't even get to go and experience it can go to the beach. Can you go out and see the sun now when we first started here we could? We're fortunate with fire. Place now coke. Generally I mentioned being frugal when we travel. We try to get places that are like a reasonable right. If it's like forty fifty sixty dollars tonight. Something like a high end hotel. That's okay with me and Kinda built being able to Kind of live and work remotely and make sure that we're avenue comfort with Kobe. Nobody's traveling now in a place that relies on tourism airbnb have become very very active so We're now stayed in a semi luxury gated community with extensive patio at a beautiful view of the ocean. So while we are locked it I think we can go on parks. How are you dealing with not being able to go out for Walks Andrew? I don't get out much. We kind of they hope at work anyways fell down the main believe different traffic as been used to go to the grocery store three times a week. Something like this the grocery store with excuse to do of course walk around and they'll get spend time away from the computer now. We go once a week. 'cause we're allowed to and we ended up bringing it back so much time outside but not stanchly different in the life that. I've been living for the last years and it's we who else is with you in there at me and my partner Patia okay. How long have you two been together? I two and a half years I and so Life partners all the partners. And so you're saying they you were they going to the emotional stuff. I wonder. I hope I'm not like spilling all my emotional challenges here and not Communicating that despite all I. I think I'm fairly happy even on challenged I think I'm fairly productive even though I'm not as productive as I was when I could go into the office whenever I wanted I'm just trying to be as open as possible because I think that most people aren't open enough about it. I look at my twitter stream and it's everybody having like the greatest work from home experience ever instead of acknowledging that things aren't great and so I wanna I wanNA give people permission by being like one of the first people to talk about it. I I just hope I'm not talking about it so much. That are making people feel like they need to come in. Like saved me from this Person I get to. I get to go off a run. San Francisco still allows it. I'M GONNA do my bike with that. We've got a nice backyard. I'll do a bike with a trainer in the backyard. If I can't go out for runs and that'll that'll help me But what is the emotional stuff that you're seeing that entrepreneurs are going through and then what's the what are the tactics that you've seen the helps them. I've noticed that people are happening kind of short term. We actually what's going on so for example dealing with the stress of. Hey do I need to laugh my staff my part time full time? How long should I do it for working? Through all of the documents of the financial The Lung Patch eligible. I it seems like people are trying to find ways to make the business work but in many cases aren't able to do so. Yeah so tactic wise. I shared TEN FUNCHAL DOT com. Like everybody get on there right away. a couple of things. I think are really important really helpful right now. One get crystal clear with your Masjun This is something I believe in general. I think clarity over clever in almost all cases is gonNA WORK BETTER FOR SMALL BUSINESSES. That are trying to sell a product urban anything there so that. I mean not an email like this poetic of art but Hey we saw X. Two this people because the benefit of et Cetera Not There's people that do fancy cooperated out there. It's incredible I'm not one of them but right now be buried very crystal clear messaging second thing that I'd recommend With email to fetter is I would consider the first rule of Colbert. Nineteen with marketing. Be Don't talk about covert nineteen or so saturated with mass dream about it every company you have ever done business with. Has You know through their plan on how they're dealing with it or what they're thinking about it. I every many websites that you go to. They've changed the front page To be information about it. There's nothing to stop the new stuff from the government from your friends or something. You're feeling like it's okay to not mentioned okay to just say. Hey We have this service available. Would you like to? Let's find a way to make the work for you Some probably would have been very effective for us. We have to Strafe in like. Hey we want to record up community right bow One thing that allows us to be a little bit touchable raciness. We're figuring it out with the other one with the making crafted investments where you see the opportunity to so three weeks ago around The beginning of three or four weeks ago around the beginning of March as I mentioned. I'M GONNA solve our business council so castle for March very very back. We were talking about going from Between two hundred to two hundred forty dollars for expected revenue for them. Because we do that most of them to pretty much nothing. We have a couple of consulting contracts that were likely to continue. That weren't contention five dollars a month to zero effectively. Probably somewhere like twenty thousand with a couple of consultant things going on Which is not enough to sustain a business that usually. That's a quarter million because you have to fulltime staff software. You have all this other stuff so some of the action items we took then I would recommend other businesses take now I can I can share so one. We started ruthlessly cutting wanting sample that is about ten thousand dollars a year. I don't actually like male champ. I found a clunky and hard to navigate. It's super slow and I feel like male is trying to trick me into billy me more somehow because it's the thing of audiences that less something. It's like very hard to leave their platform in my opinion. If you just like make the product grading some people wanted us to have to make with. 'cause I'm not here to trash male Chad. That's one example something that we've been thinking about leaving so it was very very easy to say. Hey let's come up that we moved to Basically South posted I m web search person that costs more like or dollars based on usage. And we end up. We did before so. Hey that's one way to say thousand bars Other kinds of actual like so i. I didn't show the thirty. But we did do a partial layoff partial short-term my op for our team. I in particular all associates that we saw that we have no work available one and believes that the best thing that we could do was make possible for them to apply for unemployment before a lot of other people were able to. I've seen other businesses hold off on that decision New People to kind of just a few shifts or having some kind of income in a way that I doesn't quite get them access to the front need So I think worth kind of making those big bowl decisions To be able to support your people another thing that we did was we created an emergency fund for the staff. This isn't that growing. The business is trying to take care of our people. We knew that not everybody would be able to access unemployment by the way not. Everybody has stadium everybody so we set aside a goal of where if they email and cranny reason right whether they have to pay their phone bill or at a card or medicine or food or something. Like this just. Hey here's some we have available to you Other action items. We started hiring again so we had actually with a slow down. The had the tour guides quite on leave and then a couple of members of our headquarters seem to also. I did temporary layoff with the intention. Bring them back as soon as we could. We actually ended up bringing them back two or three days later and hired other people before all this went down we had been in the final stages of hiring director of Hail with ideas that they were going to be able to help grow the business. We're kind of strategic about We told them very likely that. Hey you're our top choice but we can't right now all revenue just here. This is not necessarily make In the business a few days later as soon as we started to see up again we made that investment. We have cash in the bank. We want to invest in such late captures the opportunity best if bill now We I mentioned cut out spends on yelp before any of our competitors Keep an eye on visa with where with help with the cash flow earn. Well we take it with a new model would be and it seems like things are going well and still. I think at one point in the interview. You said that you needed to find a way to keep the company going. How revenue was about a quarter million a month before. Where is it now? Oh March came out at a little over a hundred thousand dollars. I think are a hundred and twenty thousand dollars. Something like that. For a couple of reasons one. We did capture something revenue before Abbas inside the capsule and in some cases in some cases the canceled decided to take it at the credit of future and said hey usually we have kind of sexual ethics my policy. Whatever you can have a for two years. So we're able to retain some of that money in EPA Sunday thirty sixty thousand dollars back whatever it was We had some other consulting avenue that was just in March. You know it wouldn't be coming in April and the new money coming in from virtual wealth though I think for the virtual team building the numbers than about forty thousand dollars for March expectation. It's going to be significant anymore because there is even as quickly as we acted. There's still a procurement process for all these large companies that takes them make vision. We close a light at the end of the month a lot. We close to forty thousand dollars. And that's my expected to be somewhere between eighty and two hundred I and if we continue to See the lead some interest then. We're building that better systems every day. So we actually have more interest in what we're doing right now than we ever have before museum half with. Walk off with some of the other brands. I'm like a normal day. We'd get between twenty and thirty qualified leads and could expect that about ten percent of them would turn into a business deals now. Instead of having a hundred fifty leads a week. We have one hundred fifty a day so the week of March ninth when it first started coming in. We couldn't handle that capacity right too much too. Full-time sales at another part time person but as the weeks has gone on we've hired more We have another. I think tree failed traps. We've got the director of sales on. We're figuring out pricing. We're figuring out what exactly people want. We're getting data to be able to convert a lot more so I just want should be healthy going to be healthy as well. I'm wondering this is an amazing turnaround for a company. That really could've just said we're going to go into hibernation for a little bit and had a lot of understanding from people. I'm wondering why you are a little hesitant to do the interview with me when I put that. Call out a handful of people said I don't WanNa do. I'm doing better Andrew but I don't WanNa talk about publicly and I totally understood People don't WANNA look like they're like dancing while others are dying you know so. I said okay. I'm not gonNA push push with anyone who had even the slightest bit of hesitation including you and then now that I'm hearing your story. I wonder why you had any hesitation. This feels like the the story to tell right now to just shows how you're able to keep your head on a way of turning things around a way of recognizing the challenge that people have in the world today. Which is this this online Transition is creating demand creating challenges creating frustration creating opportunities. You found it. You're helping out. Why was there any hesitation? That's a long winded way to ask why was a lot as he have a lot of competitors and. I love him confident yet in our lead so now a couple of weeks Kim. We acted faster than anybody else did. We update our website in in about a week. It was about a week before anybody else did substantial action and in that time yet we started to build the landing pages. We STARTED TO BUILD BRAND. My sites decided to put up ads. Starting new link building and that one week is a knock of a competitive advantage. That is going to be very very difficult for competitors to catch up so I'm happy to say like hey virtual bill big anybody else wants a piece of it like laughing at the head. Because it's GonNa that gap some of our competitors. They're super smart. They're super cyber. They're good at marketing. They're going to be a close. I don't think anybody who's going to be able to pass what we're doing. I get your site does look really. I feel like who's your designer. Did you ask me the little characters in the bottom right of team building dot com? I didn't drop it by hand vector images about the site. Everything is that takes in artistic sense of confidence because the characters have nothing to do with nothing. They're just like a nice design touch right. Let's overwhelm without feeling like it's four. Wow all right okay. The website is for anyone who's curious. Go CHECK OUT TEAM BUILDING DOT COM I do think it's really beautifully designed. I don't know what else I could say about this. I think this is these story to tell right now. I feel like every frigging newspaper in the world every other newspapers anymore. I think the media should be picking up on this. I think this is the feel good story for business. People a guy who's business should've been completely destroyed who instead says I'm going to recognize the problem and I'm going to go and help out. Go CHECK THEM OUT. At team building dot com on the two sponsors made. This interview happened the first. If you understand what's keeping your customers from continuing on with your business what's keeping them happy if you want to really get in their minds not just by asking them but by asking them and merging it with a mechanism artificial intelligence. I probably could say it. I think it probably is. I'M GONNA say with with certain smart software to help you pull all the data together and make sense of it. Go check out. The lighted really delighted DOT COM Slash Mixer G. They're giving you something. They're not giving other people which is free use their software for for life. I think it could this be for life. You know what go check it out just to confirm I. I just don't see them charging people at all they just want you to go in there and try and yes. If you want to upgrade they will charge you more if you charge if you start to go through the process but they just want you to go and try it right now. It's available limited time. They only bought like three ads with me. So once it's gone it's gone. Don't lose it. Go TO DELIGHTED DOT COM SLASH MC. Sergio be really grateful that you did number one and number two. I WANNA thank. Click funnels if you're creating any kind of web page online right now. Do One that will actually get you results. And that's the of clicks. They will turn your visitors into customers and make it so easy. Won't believe it all the things that we've been talking about you'll get to us just by using their software drag and drop it baby at click funnels dot com slash mixture. G. And some gone through this whole list of links right now Michael. I will also say that now that this podcast is over if you want more tactics for marketing go check out marketing secrets podcast and whatever APP. You're listening to marketing secrets. Thank you so much Michael. My thanks much to happen to you. It's a pleasure to share a little bit that we glared. I am I hope it will be released for people all right bye.

Andrew Warner Google Canary Islands US China Michael twitter Michael Good San Francisco partner Chile UK Chicago Michael lexuses Michael Alexis founder Russell Brunson Michael Lexin