13 Episode results for "vendex"

Episode #135: ggCircuit & LAN Centers, Netflix Gaming Subscription, VALORANT Popularity

The Business of Esports

1:17:11 hr | Last month

Episode #135: ggCircuit & LAN Centers, Netflix Gaming Subscription, VALORANT Popularity

"The business of sports podcast is sponsored by east sports. Entertainment group a leading east sports and online gambling company for more information. Go check them out. At e sports. Entertainment group dot com. Welcome to the business of east sports. Podcast the official podcast eastport. We explore the intersection of business. And eastbourne's one of the fastest growing industries in the world. And the future of fine please. Welcome your host. William the eastward professor call us and paul the east sports profit della leaving the business of these sports. Podcast begins now from the keyboard to the boardroom. This is the business of sports. Podcast i am joined today by my friend. And co host william us for those of you who are new to the podcast. Welcome to the official podcast of sports. What we do here is we. Cover the most pressing gaming and east sports topics and news of the week. But we look at all of it through a business c. Suite lens we dissect. We analyze the business implications of everything happening in the industry for our regular listeners. Thank you guys for tuning in every week. Thank you for all the five star ratings and reviews. Thank you for all the love. You give the podcast. If you haven't already go by williams book. The book of e sports lever review on amazon. Talamo much. you loved it. It would mean a lot to us also make sure guys and i know because i know some of you have already bought a bunch of merge but if you haven't already go by. Some business of sports socks hoodies or shirts. it's a great way to support the podcast. And the merge i promise is very cool very fun you can still get a professor t shirts and you can still get profit t shirts if that's what you like but the sox are my recommendation socks hoodies. I think are always the safe. Bet william. how's it going. How's your week super super great paul as always you know. It's an absolute pleasure to be here until after my hiatus last week. I think that's the first time i ever didn't do a business of e sports podcast in like a year and a half or something we missed. Do we missed you. wrote it. wasn't it wasn't episode. But yeah i mean it would have been better if i'd been there. Is that my allowed. I dunno great job in your shoes. I will say but we missed you. I know if i could have moved that. Here's the storm tournament. Fr- anything you know like i would. That was your big shot. And i and i had to be there. They said we rely on. You is the vala carey. And you know what i said. I said get on my back because we're going to the championship. That's you already have the jersey on you were ready. You've been ready for the last five years. Yeah for five and maybe we did lose unwound run and maybe you know we won the whole thing. Who's to say who's to really know you know we need to discuss. That is played up by by the way all joke. There was no here the storm tournament. I was playing i but there should have been but if we have their side note there is. Here's the storm news this week. Believe it or not. We probably won't get to it on the podcast help but we may get to it on the livestream and and actually had some people. Some fans watch the livestream. Remind me to plug it. Because i think a lot of the podcast listeners. Maybe don't know. Or sometimes i forget to plug it guys after we do the podcast when we recorded on wednesdays eight thirty pm eastern time on wednesdays we do a livestream. We cover all the topics that didn't fit into the podcast. And it's a lot of fun. It's interactive we get to do it with you guys so if you're listening to the podcast come check out the livestream and i encourage everyone to participate. I really just a shameless plug guys. Have you listened to this at all. Like just stop by the even for five minutes. I promise you'll enjoy it. Drops something into chat. It's really interactive. Like if you're if you're playing this on you know whatever your apple or your pocket casts or whatever right now like you bothering enough to listen to the podcast. Like it's worth it stopped by. Trust me it's like a great time and it feels. It makes the show that i think feels very i guess insightful but abstract it makes it really real like it shows that we're real people and it's a fun time and again we do lots of great bonus topics it's a little more casual little sillier but still the same level of analysis and commitment so stop by. It's awesome and i will say william part of me obviously doesn't want to talk about here is the storm but we will get it on the livestream. The reason we don't have time on the podcast. Today's we have an amazing guest. None other than zach johnson the g. g. circuit and and fellow sort of compatriot with you william in this latest this latest acquisition by sports. Entertainment group exact. Welcome to the business of sports podcast. Thank you for having me and For those listening to can't see the video. I ordered up a batch of indiana sunshine to blaze into my face as we talk on camera together so special for you to that is only the people who watch us on video. We're gonna get that. And unfortunately i mean i don't know why it could be i william and i are both such you know models. I don't understand why the audio version gets like a thousand times the audience of the audio version of the video version. But probably because there's just so jealous of all of our good looks i guess But zac look incredible business you having gdp circuit for those of you. Who are listening. That maybe don't know like for our audience that maybe doesn't hurt of gdp circuit hasn't of zach johnson. Could you give them a bit of the background on you. How you got into gaming What you're focused on now you know what. Gdp circuits businesses. all about. What you're excited about going forward things like that. Just some of the background story. Yeah i'm tempted to give you the so for season. Two of shark tank. I was selected as one of the forty five finalists to fly out to l. a. and film side on whether they're going to have cuban or foxworthy on the panel. This was after their first pilot season. That was successful. And so i had a really good elevator pitch and this was in two thousand and ten and so when you asked me to introduce everything could i give that. But it's still the same a little bit. The same as you know is a collegiate athlete. Here in indiana guess. What i play you guessed it basketball and i loved competition and after i finished at the collegiate level. I wasn't good enough to go. Pro and video games gave me some of that feeling of getting a bracket and going to a weekend tournament and this is many years ago We'll just leave that many many years ago so we started running video game tournaments as youth pastors in our church in the basement would have all these folks bring in the original xbox. We'd land them together for halo. And then all of these really good halo players started showing up at our church. And i'm like this is kinda cool. We should do this more often. And i'm also tired of carrying crt tv's in and out of the church basement every weekend Does the twenty five inch twenty seven inch. Tv crtv not light so we opened up a little and back then. We called it a land cafe or an internet cafe or cybercafe cafe and that story has been opened since two thousand and four. So we've been holding tournaments than for anybody. That's old an old and old like we used to have the ogre twin show up for tournaments that our store back in the day you know we were the the midwest spot for all the folks in ohio indiana michigan and illinois and kentucky to find a land tournament where we paid out a whopping thousand dollars you know for payouts in all these folks who come in and big brackets and just awesome and it really grew to the point. We started We built a second store. Had some folks interested in helping his franchise and just got to the point. We needed automated. And you know like we realized to make these things scale and to run these things. I can't be everywhere at once. And so we needed software to really control the whole thing. And that's really when i got met up with my partner in gd circuit crispy. He was running a chain at land centers in ireland called game the world they had seventeen of we had four of them in indiana and we just started combining to write software. Their their team wrote it. And i managed for everybody in the us. The two thousand eight hit on his business was hit hard in ireland and we took a year or two and just ran our stores and came back together in two thousand and twelve is started to pick up again and thought. Let's start doing it again. And this time was really right operating system that runs all of this and not just a a web portal that integrates databases together online. Let's really make a cloud based system from the ground up to all this so that's when some of our software was born and that's what. gd circuit does. The industry is our tagline over the industry leader of software services and support for sports venues specifically venues. That's what we care about so you know be able to control the screen for the player for the business owner and automate as much as possible. That's our bread and butter very interesting. Back and look. I love anyone. Who's listened to the podcast. Long enough knows how much. I love these kinds of infrastructure. Plays around gaming much more than you know some of the flashier sort of pieces of the ecosystem. This is sort of the nuts and bolts and people. Maybe call this boring but to me. These are the really interesting businesses. Because they're the ones that tend to make money. And and i'm just curious like where do you see that land center business going because your business is tied to that right. At what point did you decide. We don't wanna open more of our own we just want to be operating system but And sort of the the the may be asking this questions questioned the wrong way but in some ways i'm trying to figure out you decided at some point you wanted to be the operating system which means you believed that land centers. We're gonna explode probably right and you were going to get many more of them at any point that you think we should be in that business as well or or. How did that decision to stay. Just the infrastructure play happen. Yeah so honestly like for me as a good old mid west boy again as as a son of a preacher. Like i care about people and one of my problems was as we ran all these tournaments in two thousand seven eight nine ten with all these land centers connecting together for you know just illegal legends tournament towards the end of that decade or before. Then it was console games and a lot of counterstrike probably source. It was one point. Six in the beginning but then was source. Most of the busier years. you know we. We just saw our friends that would open up stores. Everywhere may get a few years and then they would just disappear. Couldn't keep the lights on. And that bothered me. Because i know that this business is successful and i know it can be successful and i knew it was a matter of scale but it was not a matter of scale of any one company building five hundred locations as much as academy. Get all these folks to work together in a different way. So that as a group we could go to the publishers. Work on deal together and remind me i'll share a story of how that ties into my relationship with the folks at epic at our nine tournaments. We ran back in the early days. But you know like how do we take our big giant group and say. Listen mr activision or mr ea. Or why. don't ask mr. But mrs four-night or mrs epic you know we can provide you access to thousands of locations with millions of gamers if you work with us right. So that's really what it wasn't that i saw that. Land centers are going to be awesome. I just saw a lot of land centers open and that's why we really got into a lot of services as well as they would. It would come to us and say how did you make it five years. Or how'd you make it three years or how'd you make ten years and now seventeen plus years later. Have you made it that long. And you know we just share simple things with them like if you only have seventy five dollars on your credit card and you wanna open a gaming center. I always say like just go take out like thirty thousand and bring it to my house will burn it. And then you'll save the other thirty five thousand and you'll only have burned thirty thousand right like you have no business opening one of these for seventy five thousand because it's it has to scale it has to have forty. Plus stations are on friday night. A group of five friends show up and it doesn't matter if you have five stations. There's not five next to each other. Going to stay in your venue for friday night right like you have to have enough seats that you can move folks around on the busiest times so i- movie theaters have three hundred seats and they have what eight twelve screens for star wars opening weekend right like it's not because the tuesday night that you go there you like. This is a waste of money. I have almost the whole theater myself. It's because they can pack that baby on opening night for a lot of their big shows. And that's where you really you. Don't pick up the revenue so a lot of it was just my passion for the industry that the people that are starting these things in trying to make them successful. We say sometimes inspired themselves. Just because they just didn't have the wherewithal to plan ahead to okay. I can make enough money to keep the lights on for three years. But then i gotta put new graphics cards in p. c.'s. Do that in three years like well. Guess what you gotta make more than keeping the lights on for three years so you can buy the graphic cards. To put back your. Pc's season in three years. So that's kind of some of that but the insight that you have from the digi circuit software right. Did that not embolden you in some way to maybe say. Hey we have five or four successful centers in indiana. Why don't we go open. Forty more right like why. Why did you why you consciously never went down that path. So that the one thing that we've still yet to figure out and you know my accepts a friend of mine. That's starting up vendex. We've talked about this many times in a lot of folks out there you know like i know john five and what nurseries do on like again people matter people are the biggest secret ingredient in all of this. And there's a there's a shortage of folks out there that can step up and run these with the passion that you really need because it takes a unique individual right now and somebody with a little bit of experience and they're just not that many opportunities to build that pool of of personnel right so the biggest thing for me was we started doing franchising and that was. It was okay for a little bit. But i would find. Franchisees were passionate about gaming but not passionate about running the business. So you know like. I'll tell you a quick story. We had one of our first. Franchisees was a huge forget. The name was before league of legends. What was the doda. no the other one. That was o'hara's of earth. Here's a newark of newark player. The professor professor coming out here. Here's a newer actually big before launched. And here's a new earth was kind of like the. It was the pioneer for league but it charged twenty or thirty bucks to buy the game at league of legends came out. It was free to play so you. Unearth was big. He was a big years newark player and he would run tournaments at his store and he would play in now and we didn't find this out until here to later but like there were folks that got banned from the store when they were on a team that would knock him out of a tournament because you get angry at them and you know again that fine line between your passion for gaming in your passion for running a business you know like. That's that's a hard line to hold because you're caught up in the moment of competition. Not that he was wrong forgetting mad. Or whatever. but you can't kick people out of your store for being you turn. I dunno william you. You may open one right just for. Here's of the storm. I mean you're basically telling me. I can guarantee i win. If i open a store and kick people out who beat me. His bracket would be that. Well there's someone who got a bye to the finals. It's my team. Guess what how did that happen. Oh oh and there's a disqualification of my competitors. Oh dear happened every week for the past six months. What are the odds. Paul to that reminds me of what we're talking about we've always struggled with. We love competition. Love bracketed play but it was pretty early on that we discovered that. If you're pay out on your prizes in your rewards of the top three places in a tournament right like in this. We found this out with gears of war. When it came out we ran a bunch years award tournament's eventual tons of pros. Come through our thing and went on to win. Almost all the mld events right lake. But i'm hold these. These gears tournaments we had eighteen. Show up new. We'd have sixteen and then we have thirty two and then all of a sudden we started going back down again because the experience a team or a player that shows up and gives it everything. They've got an a finished fifth place in the first three places. Pay out money like unfortunately they feel like a loser right like they felt like they lost and i didn't like that part of it so that was one of the things. We really focused on with our software. Gd circuit is by. 'cause you play in our center we'll just detail to be but you aren't coins as you play like you would tickets at chucky cheese right like if you're terrible at ski ball paul shaking his head like i can tell he's terrible. Ski ball is my favorite part was was was collecting on those tickets and eventually to go get the spinning top. You know like everybody wins a prize in his corneas. That is that makes the event fund right. Like you didn't leave chucky cheese like off. I sucked at ski ball. They not really down day skibo. You're like a party. We had a good time. I really got to play some fun games. And i went on with a slap bracelet bikes. Sweet you felt like a winner and so we're trying to do that with some of our systems in that. Everybody has a chance to play late. I'll give you another thing. We haven't announced this yet. But for my land center we've been mining theory him Pre gd circuit crypto project. Right so like my the wallet with almost sixty theorem coins in it that we were not sure like our accounts. Like how do you get that in your. I have a better idea. We're going to let everybody in coins. And we have a thing called the wheel of win and we're going to spin the wheel and every month. We're going to give away into theory going to one lucky winner. Every earn is an injury in the drawing. Our software attracts all that So from july to december coming out of the pandemic at my store one winner will win any theory in coin every month and my council like alleluia doesn't have to pass through the checkbook and goes off surprise and they can deal with cashing it out and paying the taxes on it on the other wall so things like that to me all the way that i love to think of competitions in ways for folks to play that doesn't necessarily mean one person wins. One of the best person wins right. Like i just want to dive a bit deeper on this because a lot of the questions. At least i get from people who listened to the podcast or come on the livestream. I find there's a lot of people interested in this land center market right. Anyone who wants to be sort of an e sports entrepreneur going and opening a land center feels like one of the easiest ways to get in. And so i see a lot of people interested in this space. My question to you is knowing what you know given. You know the seventeen years all the data and insights. You have from from the software. Is there anything you can point to that. Says this is the thing that makes land centers successful or the thing that makes land sensor land centers unsuccessful. Are there key things that you could point to. That are indicators of success or failure. Yeah there's there's we actually did a youtube series ten years ago. That still gets a lot of us because people search for ten biggest mistakes in the land set are something. I forget the title. I should know like. I'm a terrible Albany but we have a circuit youtube channel with all these helpful videos. We've recorded over on even know how many years we recorded at this stage so one of the biggest things i see is the battle with real estate and right now coming out of the pandemic i hate to be like a a a total optima has but it's a great time to start a gaming center right now he's sports venue lanson or whatever you wanna call it. Because i've seen a lot of folks even that have been in business. Renegotiating their leases now on like a percentage based lease or a lot better lease than they've had in the past so your three biggest costs land center is the capitalization of all equipment. Are you gonna pay for that right. Lake can't just write a check and then it's going to go away like you need to depreciated or save up enough money in three to five years. You can buy it again. That's one second when his payroll so you needed to be as automated as possible. You don't wanna have fifteen like technical gurus running around like auto. Try to write scripts for you not a log like you just need to software to work and the other piece of it is the rent. That's the three biggest things to running a gaming center right like my rent and my little four thousand square foot stores fifty one hundred dollars a month like it's brutal like it's a giant check to write every month so right now you know. It's a great time. We've negotiated are least down to twenty eight hundred a month with our landlord because code. And you know there's no indication that we have to raise that back up in the near future and so we'll probably go to them and say how a percentage base rent now where there's a base fee and then you get a percentage of our gross sales because we're very cyclical seventeen years worth of e bash draft. I could put him on top of each other and it's like the ways of the ocean every year like everyone goes back to school. September is always the lowest month like everyone's going to get straight as in their kids are not allowed to go back to the land. They spend all their money on new shoes. And like every year. It's down Creeps up game releases. Come out october november. And then in indiana everybody's inside in the winter because it's cold december january and february baller. Then it gets warm out and everybody goes back in and it goes down a little bit so you know we know that kind of cyclical thing. So it'd be great if our lease kind of flowed with that that cashflow interesting and do you think as a consequence of sort of that lease piece of that ran piece being that much more affordable because of the pandemic you think we will see explosion of land centers is that you know something that people can expect what we see. And what number would you put on that. Are we going to see a thousand open in the us in the next twelve or twenty four months. Two thousand five thousand. Like what is the number you think that where it becomes saturated and there's just no more opportunity to open more centers here. Yes it's funny but like we talk about land centers in general there's a lot more moorland centers than people realize right. Like so the depends on what you call a land center gaming center so you know we have gaming stations inside at best. Buy stores in the us. Nobody would have any idea. Ailing work kiosks and seven hundred. Best buy stores. You can test out project cars on the systems. That's running our software. You can actually play project. Cars connect to the internet. That's our software running stations and we're talking with other folks about game into leaderboards and giving away hardware inside of a best buy store. So is that a gaming center actually not to retail store right but that's an install of ours we power lot of universities now is schools are building dedicated spaces inside of those another whole market right. But you'd be surprised. How many folks like laser tag arena have like twenty gaming stations in a corner or you know like they've got a magic hard shop right but they've also got like twenty. Pc's in in the room next to them that they do little and parties in and they run our software. So i think there's going to be a lot of those i don't know we. We signed up thirty dimos last week. And that's that's the highest number we've ever had in our history for a single week. Those are folks that like they have to talk to us. We set up demo server. They log into the demo serve. They start testing the software. So as we talk about sales funnels we get about a hundred seven leads a week thirty dimos startups a lot like we've added a huge coup version. We've added eleven hundred screens in the last four weeks to our network like part of it. Is people opening back up. But a lot of them are brand new centers coming on board and again the combination of he likes ganji and careful. I don't boost. Wins confidence too much here because his face if you close a little more than the gt circuit. He likes ganji. Combo of the crypto project. We're finding ways to deliver revenue to these stores. They didn't have before their costs. Don't change much right so for little more. Like trinity while you're gamers are not logged in. We use distributed computing. We call it. Dd fuse which happens to be mining theory right now and it's generating land center in chicago. Get a five thousand dollar check from s for the first two weeks so it's ten thousand dollars a month. They're going to get from us by allowing us to use their pc's for processing which right now is minding cerium and we wrote a fifty four hundred dollar check for the first two weeks and i love it because you know what we're doing. We're helping those business owners generate revenue from their machines when there is not a game or sitting there it solves that like like keeping seats occupied problem right. Which is the crux of the business model for the centers. The they need to maintain some eighty percent or seventy percent capacity for however many days You know however they've model it. I assume this completely flipped that around. And now those numbers come way down costs right like so payroll doesn't go up ray doesn't go up and the capitalization doesn't go up right. Like utilities are as scared as everybody is. And i know that the cost of electric different around the world but to give you an idea of gaming centers. Electricity is a thousand a month before we started doing crypto and now it's like thirteen hundred emma like nothing. It's nothing addition to what i was art. I was already heating and cooling space. Like i don't know if you know this but a heated max between paul william and heroes of the storm generates sombody heat right a lot of trash talking and so the air conditioning's got cool that down a little bit. Just the same as it. Cools down mining. Some crypto when you're not sitting in the chair so it's surprisingly not that much different interesting. Very interesting william. I don't know if you had any questions. It's tough for me. Because you know zach nyerere effectively coworkers each other for a long time very familiar with the and i'm an amer- by the business i think what zach built is just absolutely incredible. I will just say just. Like i don't know is it. Is it useful. Maybes act to say like what are the way like i. I still get the sense that. I think you did a good job of displaying. But there's this misconception about land centers as sort of these like businesses that have like we had them in the ninety s when like vr was first thing and you go in and it was like pixellated and like that was like before people there were really the home. Console market really heated out. Like there's that meant and i just think it's helpful like used describe for people like because you've seen so many. I mean literally thousands of gaming centers. You know all around the world right like can you say more about like. I guess like the modern experience across his customer. A i want people to kind of understand like this is really a new thing. You know what i mean. It's like this is this is actually. This isn't some people. Trying to make a throwback trend work this is actually a real pivotal that many gamers engage in e sports engaging more broadly. Yeah a lot of times when we're starting with clients in You know it's strange as they come to us like whether it's a person that's opening up fifty stations in a strip mall where in somebody like east. Sports arena in vegas or fortress data australia or these giant centers. Were working with them if they don't already have this one of the first things we do with them as like what is your purpose. What is the theme of your center in your space like so back. In the day people didn't have high speed it home so they went to a gaming center to have lower paying right. Like like i see a lot of folks that are like you know what our land centers purpose. We're going to have the fastest. Pc's out there and immediately. I'm like hold on like that. Sounds awesome. they'll let me tell you why that's not gonna work 'cause you know what happens in three months or six months they're gonna come in and you no longer have the fastest you're not gonna want to buy all pc's and six months to keep saying that rightly so be careful like making the purpose of your center trying to be the latest and greatest technology. It's got gotta have a different theme or purpose so i love battling ruin atlanta right. Like they've been around as long as we have like fifteen plus years and there's really like this cool lake nerdy geeky bar atmosphere with really unique food. That's named after a bunch of gaming stuff. They have a full kitchen like their way more restaurant bar than they are gaming center. But they've got. I don't even know like forty stations in there. They've got couch stations to play console on and then they've got like a bunch of pc stations to play league or university of the storm. If you want to seattle what. Everyone is playing. There's probably we all know that but again you even have to look at this point any center the number one game. Yeah anyone who just picking this show up. It's going to be so confused. If they just hear some of this. I know they just come in there now and we're like wow that really made a comeback. We saw eight new downloads. From all right no kidding. So there's always these other centers that have good ideas but then there's the ones that just think it's not field of dreams right like if you build it. They will come up like you have to run it like you run a normal business. If you open a subway franchise. There is some brain recognition of someone driving down the road seeing the sign to come there but every franchisee is required by the franchise or to have a marketing budget and put a bunch of commercials on tv radio social media wherever they can put it to let them know. Go to the new subway open right like make sure you go to our store. And that's what we tell folks like you still have to market it. You have to go to all of the the events in chamber of commerce or the events at high schools and try to sponsor events where you show up and run a little mini smash tournament in hand out. Free one hour cards for your store. Like you've always got to be out there hustling for your business. And that's i just unfortunately see a lot of these folks start up. They just think people need a place to raid world of warcraft. And i'm going to build that for them. And i might cool now. Are you gonna find all those people in their basements rating world of warcraft. To come to your store right like just doesn't magically appear because they're probably playing with folks in another state. Don't even talk about your store so you gotta go out and get him and bring him into your store and give them a recent come in there. So team has always a big for me. Can i ask you questions about how you guys position yourself in the market. Like i love this idea of the operating system for land centers right and i just kinda love that as a tagline and and if i'm thinking about operating systems for the most part other than you know more specific use cases windows has dominated the market right for the last ten years. At least right. And do you see this. Infrastructure layer this operating system for land centers as somewhat of a winner. Take all kind of market or do you see you know. Four competitors to g g circuit thriving in the next. You know ten years or twenty years or whatever it is like is is there is. There are there advantages to being in every center for the centers. Also right because they they learn maybe from the others. You guys collect all this data or so. Is it a winner. Take all market in your mind. Yeah i'll use this as an example with william again because so we have a few clients that are concerned using us because of the fear that data rules. All right like so. There's this fear that the data is valuable which it is all right like the date is extremely valuable. But we're not in william knows this because even our sister company and now as our part like we're all want family like still very very protective of everyone of our customers data right like to the point. Universities that use our system we have as associated with a university users just token us three p. is to get authenticated we asked for an answer they say yes. We don't know who they are what they're doing or anything else and like we. We'll track statistics for that. You you id generic idea throw it back to them and they can throw it on a leaderboard in the university and no one has any idea that flare is and it's more for robust trouble-shooting of bug tracking and everything else for us than than the value of the data. We don't sell panels on to sponsors for anything like everyone immediately jumped into that like. Oh my gosh. You've got tens of thousands of screens through a coca cola ad on there. You can make all of your stores. A bunch of money like so. That is a problem for us is that there are good friends of mine. That run chains of lan centers. That do not use our software because they want to make sure that they're very conscious of their data and their players in their their platform and for me platform is a terrible word. I hate when people use it because to me. It's the purpose right late platform to me. Means what gear games do. Because like i can build an app or i can build a website. I can build software like everybody loves the use the word platform but like what you mean like. What's your business idea. And how you keep your players interacting with your brand and your business idea. That's what you mean by platform right and we're one hundred percent transparent all of these folks. I try to convince them like we're not but again it's a very very like they've gone to their investors and raised money on their model of. We're going to build out five hundred stores. We're going to control all of our stores and we don't want to control their stores at all. We just wanna make it where instead of building twenty stores this year you can build fifty and instead of controlling fifty stores with five people you control fifty stores one person right like we're trying to make it scale an automated so let me nerdy for a little bit if i can right. So you're one of the things that were the most proud of is very very old fashioned thought of the fact that in our land centers we have a product called. Gd rock okay. So what did you rock is that it's a server that is located on that local network and it contains an image that all of the gaming. Pc's in that network and booed off up so into bio says it boots up. It says do. I have a hard drive and we say no. We take our drive out. We said no. Here's your hard drive and we send them to that server on the network. That servers like cool. I know you are by your mac address. Money give you an ip go ahead and buddha and it boots on an image. That's the same image. That pc two three four and five boot up with right. So we love that product and there's nobody in the world that should not use that product it literally has nothing player dated nothing when anything else like. Everybody should use that product but not everybody does because the fear is i always take it. Back to my is p. days like if you know more than mere. I don't quite understand how it works. I don't trust you. And i hate that because like i'm like guys like i don't know how to be more transparent than like literally we'll put the code on your servants show you how to code works and teach you how to use it and you can use it right like and you can go install it in another center of yours and just make your life so much easier. I don't know paul. We used to boot up. Two hundred and fifty p. c.'s. For gencon every year in the east room right like we were gurus at writing images and copying images to all the hard drives like and there's a ton of smart people out there today that will go build a bunch of land centers like image hearts. It super awesome. And now i'm like no. You have a pixie. Boot server boots all two hundred fifty of those. Pc's off of one inch right like if there's a four update the night before the show opens your like just update the image and then they all turn them on and they all boot for. I don't detroit's for anything to them. They don't have hard drives in them and it's not. It doesn't affect gaming at all because it still uses all the machines hardware for gaming and loads the game in the local ram it uses the graphics card that uses all of the stuff on the p. c. like it's not a thin client or vm. Ware right like a gaming. Pc that just has a virtual hard drive on a server. it's brilliant. It is absolutely brilliant. My team is amazing at this product. And why in the world is not everybody using that there are. There are chains that have twenty locations inside of retail big box stores. That try this out. Didn't quite understand. Were scared because they didn't know how it worked. And they said no thank you. And they use deep freeze to freeze the image of all their. pc's and twenty locations and it's a miserable nightmare for them to maintain those images interesting. I come back to my questions. Act though then do you think do you think this is winner. Take all i'm offended. Then everybody doesn't use our stuff because it is usually bill. There's no reason to not use it. Our gee-gee league software sixty million hours of usage sixty million hours of usage and every single day every day. Something is found that needs to be tweet every day. It's never be finished and anybody that can build something and thanks. This is easy all build. It will never be finished. was activision blizzard. This week updated their launcher and updated a few things inside in their their screens. We had to go in and fix for that right like and it's no big deal for us because we have awesome team of developers and we fix it within less than a day. We have a patch out in everybody's good like do you want to run a software company mr eastward center owner or you want to run the next greatest sportscenter business right like. That's why i think everybody should use it. I don't there are other folks that build software for internet cafes that are located in other parts of the world and some of our competitors use those because it's their only option to not use us so they have reigned that we're gonna take their data. I that's it. That's the only thing is fear of us stealing their data. For some reason. I every day. I try to figure out a way around that question. I mean it sounds like there's still an education gap as with most things in east sports. I mean it's the you know. Even people who are building land centers are not necessarily the most sophisticated technology people or gaming people I think this is a common theme. We see over and over which is every piece of the industry there is still an education gap doesn't matter where you're looking So it's interesting though. I personally think it's probably a winner. Take all market that especially with the moat. You guys have currently it's hard. It's hard to consider anything else if you're opening a center so yeah there's big retail chains that we have contracts with that again are the same way of life. They have their way smarter than than any of us on our team. Right like really really smart people and you know so for them. It's almost like czechoslovakia. They want us to spend up another. Aws instance that. They've got the keys to that will just give them the assurance that we're not gonna get hit by a bus or something almost right lake so again. Our merger with ecg as publicly faced company and a much bigger more powerful publicly facing company than we were as a private company. As as a whole. I hope we'll be more assurances for some of those folks that like. We're not going anywhere. Like i wasn't going anywhere anyway but be a privately held company. It's a little harder to convince folks right lake. I don't really wanna give chase bank account log information. But now i can point into gm b. l. Right like a little different than it was before. So yeah william. Do you have any questions before we move onto some news here now. I think sag did an awesome job. I think it's time to to talk about some news and get zacks perspective because we had a really busy week for news. Yeah there's a few big stories here that i hope we're gonna get to all of them here in the interest of time. So let's let's let's start with this guy. This was a big story and it was a report that came from reuters and the headline here is net flicks planning to enter the gaming industry with subscription based gaming service. So we had talked on previous podcasts about net flicks showing interest in the gaming market wanting to potentially get into the gaming market. Obviously they've done gaming shows now it seems to be all but confirmed at least the rumor seemed to come from a very legitimate source here that they will have an unlimited essentially games offering for a monthly fee as with you know the typical netflix subscription and And the only thing else out there really. That looks and feels like that today guys. Correct me if i'm wrong is like an xbox game pass But this is. I found really interesting. Zach i know you had as we were talking before before we started recording the podcast. I know you guys have had some interesting thinking around games like all you can eat game. Subscriptions so curious to get your thoughts on. Netflix is getting into this. Potentially and how it fits with gee-gee circuit. Yeah so the other one that i think landowners has asked us about a lot is the ubisoft has also as like a a a past that you can buy it gets a lot of their titles if not all of them under one subscription so a lot of senators will say came by that for all the. Pc's right in that. Have that for each of the. Ps you know the one key that i see in all of this. Is that a lot of these. It's going to be like hurting cats for netflix. Right like we all know what it's like to try to track down someone at valve or steam to work with them on something right like and some of the publishers are easier to work with than others but money talks right lane where the money funnels into the system and that that number the dollar number that funnels in a lot of times is what's gonna probably move the needle some of those publishers. So you know. My thought is connect. Let's get. I don't what price point will be. But ten or fifteen or twenty bucks can be much more than that right if somebody put your credit card and we all know we've got those subscriptions for all the streaming services eight of them. They're all like between five and twelve dollars. But let's magic point. Can you take that from a million or five million or ten million gamers to start and get somebody like activision blizzard who were extremely close to chest with their ip extremely hard to work with for bigger projects. Like this. like you gotta sign one of those publishers. The hardest ones. I write and go to market with those. That's the biggest thing for us. We've also done like we done stuff in our network where we've made battlefield available on licenses with working with the a to oliver lane centers in the network where they didn't have to buy the game the players at the by the game and they just went to a land center and launched the game play they would be like g circuit one. Oh to be there player name right and then the next time they log in to get a different one in. Somebody's sold their armor. Whatever in like eventually they get frustrating they by the game. That's the whole purpose right. So we done that before. It's technologically not a problem. We dreamed of the day of being able to do that. But we've always into problems at the publisher always like and we've got great contacts and great friends there and they're like there's no way we're getting this fire attorneys. That's always horgan stuck. I mean it makes so much sense for you guys to bundle with your software right like an all. You can eat subscription so that the centers don't have to worry about that. I guess william my question for you is to point. Is there a price point at which you think. Netflix will be able to get all these publishers on board. Because we've seen this happen with music and movies and the first ones to do it. Like apple was notorious. Steve jobs i think had practically begged and plead to get all these music publishers sort of onboard with apple music originally and it was not easy especially being the first. What do you think. Netflix will hit a reasonable price point here. And do you think they'll be able to get all the publishers one roof. I i have so many thoughts about this. It could fill a podcast by itself. So i gotta be focused on a couple. I think i. I wanna talk up. I'm not superb. Bullish on this working for netflix. And that is that's a hot take. It is not because i am not bullish on a game subscription model. It's not because of that. I'm extremely bullish on. I'm not saying athletes can't make it work. But i wanna do the pros and cons column for them. The pros are pretty simple. Basically everybody in the daming gaming demographic in most countries already subscribe to net flicks like. I'm guessing if you're eighteen to thirty years old. You have a netflix subscription. right now. that's why they're making the witcher. Tv show for netflix. Because they know you. They know their audience. You're there right so they have a massive instantaneous ability to put this offering in front of people and convert and because they're gonna get great scale. I'm pretty confident they can get a great price point for this right. 'cause they're gonna be able to rely on a lot of user signed up in the beginning and if they've been able to if they have the scale to negotiate a good price point for movies and tv right the probably be able to get a good price point games. I don't think we're talking. I mean i don't respect it on. Pricing by pricing will be competitive. Whatever it is so. I think that's massive pros massive pros. So why then. William would you say. Well you're not you're not super bullish on this. You're not like oh my god. This is a home run because two things one is. i think. Net everyone assumes netflix will win in their new markets because net flicks was first in this in the in the the movie market. tv market. right netflix's not. I hear right lake and in particular. I think gain pass as a competitor cannot be underrated. Here cannot be underrated because once you have one subscription feature for this. I dispute that. This is like movies and tv. We're going to end up selling it for four or five subscription service gonna have one based on. You're going to cherry pick the other titles in games because that still the offering. That's based on here. So i have real concerns about the entrenchment our competitors but i have a bigger concern here and the big concern. I have is for me to go. Oh my gosh. you're going to of the park. This announcement would have to be paired with net flicks opening game studio because flicks has shown us that the secret to their sustained subscription model is owned content. Right that's why they spend literally billions of dollars developing content every year. And i find it difficult to believe. I find it difficult to believe that after say microsoft is just bought bethesda right and walked all that stuff exclusively as a carrot to their platform. They're all these other publishers. Were thinking about their own platforms and what they might do might let the crown jewels fence for subscription service. And i think you see what's happening with net flicks. Right now with like disney clawing back. Ip to build disney plus. I think the gaming space is more advanced and there's much more friction for them here today realized and without their own individual offerings to anchor. I think they'll have a really great head out of the gate. probably some expensive highly paid marketing. Titles but i think the ability to sustain is really questioned. I also started. I want to go one other place. That i'm gonna go ahead. Yeah i also want to connect this. The person who should be most terrified by this announcement. And i think an unusual draw but bear with me. I think if i'm a company that is most scared about this. It's epic and why. Because i think epic just invested tons of money and is planning to continue to invest tons of money in a store model right and my concern is if this is at the moment where we now have a net flicks coming in. We have game pass that maybe the store model is really going away that the subscription model is the new model for games in game services and the biggest people who are at risk. Here are the new store models. They're going to have all the difficulty of building the store business but they're going to be on last generation's monetization approach right lake. I think maybe seeing s epic games might wish we should have been we should have liked the game streaming service or had streaming elements integrated into it. What if we think about this. I love that point. Because here's what. I think secretly behind the scenes k. This is your data play right like somebody like valve with steam or something like epic with their store. They have all this data. they know notice. I would argue that. Epic already has a subscription model all right. You know where i'm going with this. Because they already know they can sell a few games right they sell a few games during your. They know you're logging and they know what you will buy but they also have been giving away games the whole time and i don't see any sign of that stopping so essentially like what they're doing is saying okay right now. William buys like a couple of games a year divided by twelve months. We give away about your free games along the way we pay all those game. Companies for those games essentially. I wonder if under the hood. That's what their model is. They're just monetize ing it in a will give you some free games along the way to keep you in our store all the time you buy a few games essentially. That's what you're doing right as long as you're logging into the epic store and spending some money every now and then i see the point. Just the concern. Is you know the positioning here. Is like if like netflix. Entering this market because they have so much market power for exposure to customers right like literally anyone who games like i think we've all heard subscription service for games before because i remember when has been around for a long time. People are gonna do. I remember when there was like. Was it like game fly or whatever you'd literally get like you know so like i think we view it as a i think net flicks can bring a lot of attention and reinvigorate that model and show that that model makes sense today and my concern is if you're steam your find your the entrenched ownership store you lock danube more ties or casa longtime ago. But if you're epic and you've just spent literally hundreds of millions of dollars building a store model lake. Imagine if. I were trying to convince you that like i should be doing an online. Dvd online video purchase website. Today you'd say to me no there's amazon. They rule that market if you want fixed on content and everyone else is on streaming right. And i'm taking that thought a little bit and a plan to the games market. Where no they're steam. They own the main market for people on ownership there's the entrenched clashes in there and everyone else is going to go to streaming and i really do think streaming is coming or not streaming subscription models are coming in a big way because of the success of game pass. I just think the industry is awake to it. They recognize how impactful it is for microsoft and lake. It's difficult to get going and it's difficult to get right. But i really believe that. It's not just netflix of power. More to the point net. Doing this is going to scare other people into doing this. Right all using your mode analogy. Is it also a problem that a generation or two we've lived in steam right like our games exist in steam. And that's why epic is started their store to compete with steam. That like i don't wanna ever lose my steam account. Because like what happens to all the games that i have in my steam account and five thousand unplayed what about world of goo. I've been looking right like that's still there for me to play if i want so you can't leave too. That's a classic. I've always said that the more of these stores that pop up or services or and it's no different in video if anything it's worse for the consumer worse for the game right it just like i now have to check but because i have so many subscriptions just for games even i have game pass. I have three hundred thing state titles on steam. I have all the freebies. I got on epic game store. So like when if i have a friend that says hey let's go play Left for dead. I'm like hold on. Do i own that. Did i get it for free. Isn't on game pass. I have to do a whole search. And i'm i'm the origin i pay for the origin. Premier whatever and the ea play in the rain so like between all these services. It's just a mess. And i think it's nonsense that it's such a mess but i just want to push back on williams point for a second. Which is i think. Epic would be able to pivot to and all you can eat service because of their relationship with the developers. I think that's the crux of those all your own unreal and i waited. Ut circuit too unreal for folks in examples like like you know. Listen like underneath the hood. Publishers use the unreal engine right. So is that arthur secret sauce. And where i think. I pushed back even harder. William is on on the net flicks doing original content. Because i think you're right. That's the obvious one right. Netflix does original content for movies. It's very successful. They do it for tv. Shows it's very successful. They spend more than a billion dollars now a year producing original content. I just think if they wanted to roll their own all you can eat game service and and the we all agree. The hardest part of this is convincing the developers to come on board with their games if in the same breadth says and by the way. We're buying this studio and we're going to spend three billion dollars a year making her own games if i'm activision blizzard going. Whoa whoa hold on. You wanna put you know you wanna put overwatch to next to and call of duty next to whatever game. You're spending a billion dollars on no way right. And so like. I feel like if anything netflix's staying out of the original content space might allow them to bring this to market more successfully now not to say two years from now or three years from now they then can't roll their own content. That are dependent that argument. Paul i think is dead argument and i hear you but i think like that's the argument. Like if that argument were true. Then why did net flicks go into original content. Right if they didn't do it day one no they didn't they didn't do but my point and neither did apple. Neither did apple. I here because you don't want to be seen as a threat to ease your way in your the friendly guy consolidating everything we all work together koumba and then three years in once you have all the eyeballs. Then you roll your own. See the differences and i take the point right. You're basically saying you know. I take the planes thing. Is i think the fundamental problem here. The fundamental problem is all the like in that market beforehand right the market that you describe beforehand like all the individual tv studios all the individual video movie studios weren't really trying as a core piece of their strategy to do their own distribution right but look it now every publisher you decide about. Tell me all the services you subscribe to tell me like. It's the publishers. Recognize that the distribution here. Because it's a much more fundamental core digital product right like then. They never went through the like they've recognized like the industry had an awakening before traditional media. Where they shed the pain of having to go to a game. Stop to go by physical. I'm sorry game. Stop shed the pain of having to go to retailer to like online. They got there earlier and they recognize control that distribution is powerful. That's exactly why now you have the publisher's going full on it and trying to distribute other people's games like epic. So i just think like role play the conversation with me lake your net flicks i have buyers i fall out five or whatever it is convinced me to put fall out five on your service brag but here i'm gonna i'm gonna shoot you both down because i'll give you ahead the other night i really wanted to watch indiana jones and just had a hankering to watch it again rate movie which one which one i was going to start the beginning stars like i'm assuming i'm assuming they're all online right so i do what everybody does all right and follow me out here. I opened a netflix. So then i'm like screw. There's not going through every went. So i get my google ad i google it and i'm like oh it used to be this used to be. This used to be this this now. it's on paramount. Plus well guess what exactly do not subscribe to paramount much yet. So my point is i think. Netflix can launch this and be successful without all of the publishers. Because in the end like there's not a one fix all video streamer out there today anyway like we also scrag to at least three or four or five different services because the ip spread around. I don't know of a day. Where all the ip exists under one thing because that's called a monopoly and so like. I don't know that that is a good thing. Anyway so me make this argument. 'cause i'm strong. I think i think there's a good point which is like the risk here is like think of your steam library again right and then give like i. I'm for everyone right. Like it's like three percent of your team library like ninety nine percent of your time played right because you know you're like you play the big marquis games you by others you try and not really you know. I'm not really feeling crayon physics this time. You know maybe an right like the point. I'm making as the risk. I don't doubt net. flicks can get gaming content. But if they're getting all the games you don't wanna play really they don't have a great service and my fear is differently. Our industry is recognized the power of exclusively for decades starting with consoles. Right like that's what defined like there's this notion inherent in the industry of exclusivity and platform control and again in less. They're able to get the biggest games. You're not gonna wanna subscribe to the service this. I don't believe this is like the movie your tv marquette where there's a massive amount of long tail content and tons of people want to go back to nineties thousands tens i think for subscription games to work most people pretty much wanna play the most recent games. And that's the difference here right. That's the stuff that gets carved out to other studios in the media. Model in william data from our system is that we have games like we have two thousand titles our library across our network right like there are centers that have loaded libraries of all the classic games. You could wanna play. And they don't get played and we all know that right like y'all like let's go together that new retro bar down the street. They've got original nintendo. We can blow on the thing. It'll be so cool and we'll sit down and like it's really cool for a night like the other night. We pulled out goldeneye and we just really wanted to play on the sixty four and like it was in a great experience. We might have a few adult beverages and like but like i didn't have the urge to pick it up again the next it's all remote mines which is only like you know golden gun and all of those are great and we all love thinking about that about playing it like i was frustrated. I was like this is not playing. Like i play fortnite right like like i wish i could be crouch and build and do some other stuff. The new games can so. I think that a great point in the fact that where are they going to get the content. Because you can't rely on the nobody like you can't rely on the long tail content the same way you can with traditional movies and film. You just like everybody. I bet if. I told you wanna watch the best picture. Like i bet. There's a big market for the last ten years. The best pictures. I don't think there's anybody really in gaming who wants to go back and play like or like fall out to even though it was a really game at his time there on fallout for and the market for to is very small. Guess what it was all right. Good old games right. And i think it's a good business toy such a good point using you look music's the same thing must either movies right. What what. What did netflix apple tips are with. Its start like the big thing was getting the beatles and that's like fifty sixty years old you know but again you badge. Well i'm going. I'm going thumbs down on netflix streaming. I don't think we have oregon trail like guys. We got oregon trail like that would be the equivalent right. You know what i mean and like everyone's like oh trailer. i remember. That was his plan for hours in your hour to furnace style. Not the long content games on the same. It's the big new content anchor services and that's the stuff the publishers protect. And that's my concern that when they have a big marketing budget out of the gate. They'll get a partner though by a couple of big things right but the ability to sustain this is going to be a struggle. it's gonna be a real struggle. And i think gables and i think they can get awareness for this market. I think subscription games will be more important category going forward now. I think this might galvanize the category. But i have real concerns about the ability to do it. I really don't i again. I'm not saying they won't do it there. They have the advantage ever which is literally every single person who is a gamer will know about this day one. Because the logging their netflix account at night and see an offer for it is netflix. has that demos. that's a huge advantage but content is king in these industries. And i think the content here is not a one to one parallel with movies and tv guys. I want to move on. I wanna get to one other story here Before i do. I just wanna say for for our listeners for viewers. I would love to get comments from you guys a on what you think. The price point for this netflix service will be and be they will be able to get the triple a titles the latest and greatest and if if that is something that you would need to see to subscribe to the service i would love our listeners views on on those live streaming vote team net flicks team not flex like. I'm really curious Guys let's get to this last story here. we have to. We have to mention this because it's a another big story this week and this is valerie mobile being announced and in conjunction the pc version hitting fourteen million monthly players huge numbers from val rent and valerie mobile coming out. I mean everyone knows how big fan. I am of mobile games zach. Let me start with you. Just two questions here one. How much does the mobile space in some ways. Hurt you if you if you see it like that at all and to where is based on the data you have from the centers like where's valerie into this. Hierarchy of popularity in terms of what people are playing. Yes so interesting. Fact is is that in south east asia. A lot of our centers run pudgy mobile in an emulator in their p. c.'s where the players can using border mouse. And like it's like a pretty popular title there at in our overall network. It's not very high but like it's strange to know that players will like. Can you imagine it upscaled. Mobile graphic it. Just it's sort of cheating also playing rest easy because they have different rights. So that's interesting so the mobile market to us like we have seen that when you talk about land centers like what are you go there for. What's the purpose right. If the player just wants to beat up with their friends and play a certain title like pudgy. Mobile has taken some players out of land centers especially in southeast asia in the market for us because lot of them have cellphones. Now they don't have a pc have high speed at home. But pudgy mobile's pretty good. So i expect valerie mobile to be very popular and again we pulled this up before we talked. You know when you going to cover this subject but you know it's very interesting to me. League of legends is always been a a mainstay in evergreen title land centers for years and years and years. You know people push it up a little push down a bit. It'll pop back up again but you know for last month for us. Number one played was four night number two counter strike number. Three call of duty and then fourth was valor in its bunked called liga legends. Down the number five. It's it's a pretty big deal for us that you know riots. Second title is vaulted above its original gangster. So you know like i. I'm excited for it. it's competitive. It's fun to watch. You know like they're doing a good job of pulling those players in from other titles like cs. Overwatch enjoy that game a lot so it doesn't surprise me at all. I anticipate to keep climbing. I hope they feed it like they feed their their legal legends games with enough content and activities. Like they've done. So i will william. I'm curious like specifically free. Because we've been over this mobile conversation a million times a do you think the mobile version here potentially hurts. Cannibalize is the main game and be like what's the what's the riots secret here in your mind right like the fact that zacks point here it's already passed league of legends in across all these centers like what is their secret sauce here. They seem to have fallen on like the ability to create competitive games in a way. No one else can and drive real success in player. I mean i want to say two things. One is i love. Love love love that. They're doing mobile. I just think accessibility is the most important thing. I think people who are scared that mobile cannibalize places. I think it's against customers. You otherwise couldn't get and it's an on ramp for customers you otherwise wouldn't have riot. I think it's wonderful. I think i think high quality mobile offerings for very good games should exist because many people can't play very good games. You know on peace right because they just don't have access right. So i think like i think it's smart and if you think of valent as something maybe more than a game sort of how riot seems to be thinking about league of legends with music and things like well. This is better. Get your brand in front of more customers. You know why not come on. So i think it's absolutely like an effect that following it. This fast tells me they had this in development for a long ride. Did just start this when valor. You have a mobile like they've been doing this for what that smart strategy they've recognized it needed to work from the gecko right or at least from much earlier in the development cycle. So i love that Yeah i think the bigger concern for riot here. A little bit is where users coming from right. Because what's freaking me out in the stats. That zach shared is. I would think valerie would knock out. Cs i would think valerie would knock out call of duty. What was the thing that dropped on the slots league of legends. Right and it's anecdotal. We're talking about senator data. That zach is chosen. Share this and things. But that's a little concerning to me if i'm riot because riots will approach has been. Oh we're going to get competitive games in every different competitive gamers in every different genre. What if they're just getting competitive gamers and they were just going to the competitive titles. So you're in the worst pace possibly hours aller and i'm not saying this is the case but it's got to be in a magazine because obviously there's incremental consumption going on here but like you're actually just pulling your users out of one title into another. You had people who love competition who probably would have preferred shooter. But we're doing mobiles in now so like that is the thing that really is. You know making me prick my ears up. When zack sharing those numbers is like this is weird. Because i think that the titles this is aimed against. It's not knocking down. It's not he now owned home title and that yet. That's a goes to a bigger concerns. So you're talking about. How great is ride that they can do this. Let's not understand their achievement. This is incredible for anyone to launch a shooter like this and have it get to this level of popularity this fast. That is like i mean only a to triple a publisher could do it right particularly with the new. Ip this is absolutely unbelievable achievement but it may not be all roses and wine here. Because i wonder if it has you know that's the point. Essentially you know. I wanted to bring up sort of an anecdotal point. That zach has sort of disproven. But my i had this theory. Which was we pick a game. And this is my own personal experience. Right when i when i have time to play something and i get in my discord server. The way we decide what game we're gonna play is not based on which game we wanna play. It's based on okay. There's five people online. Let's play valerie or there's three people online. Let's play apex or there's ten people online okay. We'll play five five dollar like and so a lot of it's driven by just like the numbers you have because these are social activities now but the fact that you know a five five game replaced or at least surpassed a five five game. Like maybe my maybe. My theory here is disproven to williams point. Valerien should have replaced. Cs go who knows. I mean it's it's a tricky one. But i love the theory and i. I do think it's important to think that maybe and this is a little bit assumption but maybe were so quick to categorize games by genre right but like you don't really categorize film in movies the same way like you're not a romantic like you might prefer rom coms but no one says like oh. I only on only romcom watcher railing. If there's oh. I'm never like are you kidding me. I would never watch best. Ninja says. he's only a documentary consume media. Much more broadly. And you know. And yeah you might have preferences like of course you prefer rom coms like harry met. Sally come on stream it up. You know but like the point. I'm making here is like yeah. Maybe maybe what's going on. Here is a deeper customer segmentation of users than where actually than than the cursory approach were taking here and it's a little bit concerning to me. You know maybe there are just right. Style users and riot can reach them and they seem to have reach more with ballard but then what does that mean for the next title his. There's only so much more there's only so much of that type of consumer out there but this is to me where like being gee-gee circuits kinda so cool right because you could probably figure out if there's any truth to my theory here right like you could figure out when groups of x number of people come in. What game do they play most right and and and is there any correlation between size of the group and game preference. The fun part. Paul about ours is in our network besides like a best. Buy kiosk where they're playing for their limited. Fifteen minutes there where it's free everybody's paying to play. So people are precious with their gaming time. If they're paying three five eight dollars an hour depending on where in the world to be in these centers so our date is so peter. Because i'm not gonna mess around with a game. I don't feel like looking if i'm paying five dollars an hour to play with my buddies right so yeah it's very interesting to look at our data and get a lot of that and again not to poor salt in an open wound. Because i know you guys have talked about this in the past but it makes me sad because i feel like a real loser in all of this may be over watch you know like and i hate that because we really. We really changed the way. The world views sports with what the overwatch leak did bring in like big names again underneath the hood like a lot of a lot of the details on. It doesn't matter what the details are for someone who's been doing this since two thousand and four like the world looked at our business differently when i went into beatings and talked about gaming east forts after the overwatch. League added. folks. Like the kraft group. You know into talks so i just hate it but it also proves a point. That manner game gamers fickle right like you could put together whenever you think will be long term but next thing you know there might be afford night out. That just makes your overwatch saying yeah. You are right. The saddest agile realty in all of this is arguably the most and i would agree with you. I would actually go so far day. I think the most important game for the evolution of our industry is over watch. It is sad to not see that in your top five zack. it's sad you know who you're right. Eight colony black ops is seven. There's to call of duty games in my top ten. Wow yeah interesting yeah interesting. Let's hope we don't know this. Because we i mean we kind of know it in the lancet industry but all of us has gamers and we have a united states or america view of things. And we don't see around the world is what titles are popular right. Like i always used ota as an example like it is massive and other parts of the world especially south america and it is not very popular in lane centers in the united states right like but the massive worldwide title. You know so we just. I don't know it is. It is sad. But i'm excited for valerie right like i'm excited. That a new game is creeping up into the top five and sustaining. And i hope they feed it right like. That's the biggest news. I hope they keep feeding guys. That wraps up this week's podcast zach. Thank you for being an amazing guest for talking about jiji's circuit. Congratulations again by the way. And if if any of our listeners viewers wanna find you or find g. circuit or find your centers. Like who can they follow. who can they. Where can they follow you or working. They follow your businesses. I guess luckily we're very easy to find because there's not many other circuits out in the world. The hardest part is just got to figure out how to spell circuit. I you know i. It's my company forever. And i can't remember out of scout circuit so we're on social media everywhere youtube and things you can find you reach out to me. My name is my email is actually a c k at circuit dot com. Feel free to shoot me an email. You got any questions. I love like we love the talk shop. And it's what we did is what we've done every day for seventeen years so Very very cool. And such such amazing insight william. Thank you as always great to have you back this week and and for our listeners. Don't forget go go by the book of sports on amazon. Go go give it a great five star review on amazon. Also if you've read it if you've bought it you've read it you've loved it. Show william love there. Make sure to go buy some business of sports merch. Don't forget also are livestream every wednesday evening. Eight thirty pm eastern time every wednesday eight thirty. Pm eastern time and go follow us everywhere. Subscribe to us on youtube. The business of sports and we have an instagram. A tiktok where we're going to be doing a lot more content twitter. It's all at busy sports and there's always guys we will see you next week. Thanks for listening. To the business of e sports podcasts. Check us out at the business of sports dot com and on twitter at biz sports.

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The Third Corey - 183

The How-To Heretic

1:37:39 hr | 4 months ago

The Third Corey - 183

"Fred stood out you heretic. I'm dan i'm doug and this is your users guide to life on the outside yes sir. Leaving religion is the first step into a larger better world of abuts. it can also be a scary world things differently. Now never fear. That's why we're here. We're your audio and with help from good friends and experts all sorts of fields. We're gonna share the stories and seek the knowledge to build a great life after all. You only get the one that we know so you better making gentlemen. Hello hello hello. How are you hope. I'll just just so so good. Good i i am reaching out to you from my 'isolation my solitary in tower in toronto in it's wonderful by that's right i look at this. I can actually leave the room that i'm in. I unlike you cannot under under federal mandates soon enough soon enough anyway. What a show despite us being a divided by border we are not divided by anything else. I don't know what that means. But today i am going to talk about some very scary geometry. I however am going to talk about a cool guy in a really really stupid book. The accidental hero of a book. Right exactly yeah. And then i am going to take on the anti vaccine movement a they exist so quick note. We realized that we all had so much great information this week. We're running really long so to any patrons who jumped in this past week and i know we have. We haven't i know we have to. We want to beg your indulgence to push that off till next week and we will give you all the love then but we just wanna keep the show under twelve hours today. So yeah if everybody's cool with that. Let's do it uncle dan. Well hello You know when. I when i was younger and i was in elementary school. Think maybe junior high school. I read the quote by lincoln about better angles of our of our character and i never heard it spoken out loud so for several years i was left trying to figure out what exactly that meant. You got the wind. You got the one under your arm and then the elbow one just assume that whatever angle you have you wanna make sure it's a right one. Yeah he was very into ninety degrees. But i think oncle marquez. Some something to talk about the not so great angles. He's are not the great angles. These are not the better angels of our nature. Let me tell you so you know we try to have some fun on this. Show guys we. We try to laugh at the absurd and silly every chance we get. That's great but sometimes when you sit out to make a podcast about the comedic side of cults and craziness the colts and craziness outweighs the comedy just a little bit and while there is some funny stuff about today's very peculiar subject. There is some very very not funny stuff about it as well. So let's laugh and then let's talk for a while Content warning there are references to sexual violence and sexual violence against children in this segment. Help me if this is another anthill thing. I am leaving the podcast. It feels like it's gonna go that way but it doesn't go all the way there. So hey yeah so. It's not graphic descriptions like it was with the hill kids just a mention of it so but it's kind of impossible to tell the story without it so be warned so we've talked before on the show about the satanic panic that not really over nationwide hysteria of the nineteen eighties and nineties. That drove this city at country. Well that one. I'm not there at the moment. I'm in canada. Out of its uptight. Mind and saw masses of false accusations arrests imprisonments and other assorted bullshit for a primer on. Please refer back to episode twenty three well sort of satanists that actually rape kidnap and murder people at random that were the shadowy villains for this decades long long. Cultural nightmare didn't really exist but a pin that for just a minute. The sweetness that were around were mostly adherence and imitators of the church of satan. The brainchild of the hard to take seriously anton levay the church of saint was really instill as just another expression of sixties counterculture and Rejection of the stuffy conservative stifling american culture that preceded it The church of satan is mostly a hedonistic movement of pure individuality inspired by among others. The works of ayn rand you can listen to doug segment on her. What a wonderful person. She wasn't episode ninety and while many accused them of being kind sexist and pricks online. They aren't kidnapping anyone's babies for human sacrifices in the forest. That's not who they are right and more recently. Of course most people will be familiar with the satanic temple featured in last year's wonderful documentary hail satan and co founded by lucian greaves whom we spoke to an episode sixteen loosen in the satanic temple are the farthest thing from the murderous cannibals haunting the long dark american night of the nineteen eighty s. They are in fact. Merry pranksters and first amendment heroes haunting southern and square state legislatures with their truck mounted bathroom at statue trying to fend off the worst accesses of creeping christian nationalism child-murdering bad guys. They are certainly not that we know about that. We lucian. you've been served your on blast. Keep it tight lucien. they They they've used our -rageous religion prison religious presumptions in this country as an act of judo. Against those who ceaselessly abuse it so well played the satanic temple. Well remember when. I said those be movies satanic warlocks who kill and rape at random didn't exist. Well it turns out they kind of do and just to give the devils lily. Aren't madly violent. Nazis isn't that fun guys get. You had me at ardent madly violent nazi. So today we pay a visit to the satanic that could cause that should cause some panics. The order of nine angles or the oh nine a. If you're nasty. The order of nine angles is a pretty weird little outfit for a variety of reasons. The semi mysterious people that have authored. It's literatures literature and occasionally spoken for it have purposely surrounded it in loads of mystery and autobiographical legend alleged to have been founded in the late sixties by an unnamed woman in the west of england when she brought together three separate satanic temples and covens in the early seventies. a man who called himself anton long joined and in short order had risen through. Its ranks. those being neophyte initiate external adapt internal adept master grandmaster and immortal to become its master longhand wrote thousands of pages laying out the philosophy and magical with a k. practices defining the order as a highly secretive left hand path practice to reach the gods of the a causal room. It's a morpheus anarchistic and totally decentralized they follow what's called the path matthaus the path of suffering to come to know themselves to become masters of the causal realm and eventually masters of the aac causal realm as. Well i shall explain below. It wasn't really until the nineteen eighties. The oh nine. A really even made itself known by publishing articles in already existing occultist. And far right nationalist magazines it also began distributing its founding scriptures most notably the black book of satan and its own magazine ferrier named for the fierce wolf of norse mythology much of the literature was written by anton long and an artist and musician who went by christos beast but has been identified as richard moult. I should also also note that. Most scholars and journalists who studied nine a far more than i have identify anton long as very fascinating and peculiar man whose real name is david miot some disagree including my it himself who vehemently denies any association with the oh nine a going so far as to challenge journalist who said he was to a duel with the nazi dagger. Sound like something someone from the. Oh nine eight i mean. That's just he protested to little but the preponderance of evidence seems to support. It is in fact my it. But we'll call him anton long for for the most part in here Unlike the church of satan or the satanic temple the order of nine angles very much believe in the theistic evil satan and with him pantheon of so-called dark dodds including a sinisterly female version of baffled. Matt who in their version looks very much like the hindu god of destruction kali Who will bring about a violent revolution that allows for a new system of racially superior tribal warlord governments called the imperium and that golden age of hellish violence and total destruction of the former magin nazarene as they call it basically their term for judeo-christian of the magic nazarene order that has enfeebled and poisoned the natural violence of the human spirit preventing ascendancy to uber manche. And then in this mad max. Version of the future will set out to conquer and colonize. The galaxy led by the dark lord. The dark. god vindicates into a neo-pagan hitlerian interstellar satanic eternity. You had vendex. Where do i sign. That was a that was quite a sentence. A lot Yeah i was trying to distill it down to the the essence. And i think i got there so i think so. I didn't understand any of what you said. But i think you nailed it so the oneida believes there have been five aons of men each one lasting around two thousand years the primal the hyper boren for some more. Wholesome nazi content. Check out our segment on hyper-area episode one forty eight the sumerian the hellenistic and the current one. The western each ends and a few hundred years of increased authoritarianism and militarism and this a owns period of dictatorship they predict will begin sometime between nineteen ninety and two thousand eleven and will ask them tell twenty three ninety so any minute ten years ago now right at that point will You know up until this year. It seems like they kind of had a guy you know he figures very very prominently with a lot of these neo nazi satanic people like trump really. They saw as the guy which should come as no surprise. So at that point we'll we'll commence the sixth grade age. The a on a fire their own new satanic timescale begins in the year eighteen eighty nine. The birth year of middling watercolor colorist turned eager. European real estate tycoon adolf hitler. They have praised hitler's reich. As quote a practical expression of satanic spirit. a burst of lusa therrien lights obssessed in power in an otherwise nazarene pacified. Boring world. boy. I never thought i would hear the word zesty applied to the third reich. Yeah citrusy also nazarene being used like i'd or whatever is an interesting phrasing nazarene bay just weakened us it made us all feeble and weirdly for jew hyper violent racists. They are adamant in their holocaust. Denial saying it was a myth constructed by the magin nazarene world order to denigrate the nazis and therefore discredit them. It's so weird to me. How some of the most rabid neo nazis who foment for another holocaust feel the need to deny the actual one. Yeah no it's so crazy. So people in occult circles used to joke about the The order of nine angles of night angles as the order of no members Which is funny and true because they may be had a dozen members for a decade or more. Some people think as few as five but this gets to part of what is so different about them. They weren't really looking for any not in the normal cult since they flew almost entirely under the radar other than then my it slash anton long. They really have no leader pretty much. All their literature is available for free. They don't want money they don't want to meet you. They may be the most uncut like called. I've ever study so remember when we had my friend former Undercover fbi agent. Greg rogers on the show in episode one fifty four when dan talked to him about operation underground railroad and all the bullshit around human trafficking myths. We remember our secret. Asian man well in his career at the bureau. One of his beats was taken down. American neo nazis and he took down a lot of them And i asked him how he could keep doing it again. And again and they never got wise to it. He said it was because a they were fucking stupid and be. They were so preoccupied with taking power over whatever small group they were in so bitterly hateful of all the other groups and so consumed with infighting. They never thought to make a website where they could post all the pictures of the fed's that we're taking them down right right. i just. I couldn't believe they weren't comparing notes. Said they hate each other. The order the order of nine angles seems totally immune to any of that. There's no leadership to usurp. There's no money to embezzle. there's no power to be had by taking control called death. Ribs are just boring not boring. that's for sure cold. Expert steve. Hassen says the motivation behind cults is always some combination of money sex and power right but none of that really exists here it. It's really kind of a free open source radical ideology concocted by true believers and just left out on the dusky edge of society's view for anyone to find fucking hiep's according to china's own faq page on their ancient wordpress website. I i did promise a little bit of comedy her when when when one finds their literature one should do what they want with it if they want to become a member. They don't really have membership so they wanna become associated grape That's what they call them. People who are connected to them are just associates right right It's like gig satanism. But you're you're free to interpret it your own way or even start your own temple. Notice nexen on or not. It's up to you right and when you do that. There's no fees there's that you don't have to buy anything. It's very strange. So should you decide to actually live by the groups of what they call sevenfold. Who initiates you. Well you do dummy. And it's rather fucking tents one of the easiest. Initiation rituals is finding a secluded wild spot and laying there for an entire night without sleeping or even moving okay. Most people could probably do that. Another is to live into wilderness with zero contact with anyone with anyone else for six months the ritual of the. Yeah i have the rich. We've all seen the show alone. I don't think it's going to happen for most people at right. The ritual of the abyss has one living totally alone again this time in the depths of a cave for a month another. You're finding these caves i. There's they're they're they're here about Another is to walk alone over rough terrain covering three hundred miles in just fifteen days twenty miles a day. Which is that's dirty substantial for two weeks all this. Do you get your nazi merit badge. Well here's the other thing that's really fascinating about it. It's nobody checks funds. They have this dedication to this radical self honesty. And you've if you didn't if you didn't do it you know you failed and that's enough right. It's really fascinating. So this is some next level commitment and all you have to do to become a moment. This have the bad luck of turning eight and casserole country right right so it gets. It gets even more intense. Once you've passed those hermetic mind breaking tests. You're ready for what they call an insight role that means doing something so outside any experience you've ever had or joining a group never would have considered for at least six and up to eighteen months. It could be joining the police or the military traveling around the world on foot without dollar begging and stealing to do it joining isis seriously. You know normal gap here kind of things. Yeah this sounds. A lot. Like batman begins like a little bit does. It's like this evil kind of samurai coda right this. It's it's very. It's highly disciplined also not learning to make a lot of sense that they had no members that that part starting to make way more sense to me very few people can can pass these crucibles right or would want to or want to but some do so getting comfortable with violence and weapons training ceteris pretty normal neo nazi fair but specifically for the order of nine angles it serves a purpose called calling specifically calling of offers which is the german word for victims part of the rite of passage in self development for someone following the nine oneida paths is ritually ridding the species of unworthy garbage. This is literally part of their doctrine as laid out in several publications including a guide to human sacrifice calling a guide to sacrifice part to and victims a sinister expose and guidelines for testing of offers. You see these guys aren't just nihilist. Say what you will about the tenants of national socialism dude. At least it's an ethos right an opt for must quote self. Select what they don't. They don't know that they're being tested. But they are being watched and when an up for is called not only. Is the species less filthy but it meant like in many cannibal cultures. The murderer inherits the life force of the victim bringing them closer to being the adila uber match. The uber rich. This is not okay. Nothing nothing that's happening is is okay. No and it doesn't get better and more than a few targeted uppers have indeed been cold meaning fucking murdered by order of nine angles. Initiates more on that tick in preparation for the segment. I read many articles than one very interesting one just on neo-fascist generally in the online journal belling cat dot com by robert evans. He as an excellent quote here that could apply to so many of the segments. We do about this stuff. I should note that one of the more frustrating elements about covering the fastest right. Is that much of what they say. Sounds ridiculous and makes them appear less than serious. This is why it is important to remember that these groups have a body count and represent a real threat. There absurdity does not negate their danger and there is some silly shit about the order of nine angles. Like the fact they can't or won't get their story straight about how they got their name or that one of their most important rituals is a board game called the game of stars. They they think of it as something like the lament cube from hellraiser like a puzzle that opens up the membrane between the causal world and the acosta world Where the dark gods live. But you laugh if you see it. Because it's exactly spock's multilevel chessboard from the old star trek series right silly but these people are deadly fucking serious bright. The goal of china is chaos. Pandemonium rape murder criminality and the total implosion of the magin nazarene order to bring about the anna fire to quote from an official oh nine. Publication to acts of assault are most commonly recommended lynching and sexual assault. Jesus they ardently encourage rape as terrorism. They are also one hundred percent pro. Violent pedophilia again as a vehicle. Not only for terror and chaos but in assertion of the superior will of nine a associate to dominate the weak and the useless god. Yeah we can the useless meaning children children. Of course they are. I mean they are weak and useless in another publication. It says children must never be cold. So they they have guys ethics. They don't know they just believe they can be raped will Week so the founder of the main us us order of nine angles. next a called. The temple of blood of his lovie is a guy. Guy named joshua caleb sutter who was a real peach in addition to fashioning himself as a hyper pro north korean propagandist among a few other daffyd he was actually contacted by north korean intelligence and they were working with him and at some point they decided his just fucked in the head tweet. The north koreans are like nope can't do business with this guy among a few other daffy things he wrote a bit of ona a nine hundred nazi fanfest called iron gates. It's horrific both in envision and grammar suffices suffice it to say it paints a sloppy but nightmarish. John mcnaughton style portrait of the future. The order of nine angles wishes to foment mass murder of the intervention and endless days of child rape and torture in service of the triumph of mediocre white men. This salacious future has become an inspiration to the violent neo. Fascist paramilitary the atom waffen division whose rallying cry is iron gates. Now right so that's the future. They want horrific of course stupid without question but it has ignited the passions of more than a few hyper-violent motherfuckers everywhere. Here in america we have a lot of violent neo nazi movements. Most like my friend. Greg said are fucking idiots. Who are more likely to blow their own brains out by mistake than they are to hurt anyone else but some are not just. Here's your some of the crimes and on long's ona. Eight nine tax inspired david david copeland to play several nail bombs around the areas in london frequented by gay and immigrant communities in nineteen ninety. Nine nailbombs killed three people and injured a hundred and forty others. The british anti fast fascist group hope not hate records at least six oneida associates being prosecuted for terrorism. Twenty twenty alone here in toronto and associate of the order quote cold to south asian men who had nothing to do with anything by stabbing them in the throats in the states. Order devotee jared. William smith and army specialist was charged with leaking classified material on high explosives and weapons of mass destruction in order to kill federal agents for quote the glory of his neck religion another. Us soldier ethan. Meltzer stationed at. Us based in italy passed on information to help oneida members and an affiliated group called the rape waffen division. Who are exactly as they sound. God to ambush and kill as many of his fellow soldiers as possible. Luckily the plow stopped. He's facing life in prison of his arrest. Exposed other order associates within the military including one station in kuwait and one of the national guard who intended to use his presence at the george floyd protests last summer to start a satanic racial holy war by crazy piece of luck. He was apprehended before he can start shooting. He was also a member of the Oneida affiliated rape waffen division. That i mentioned a terror group hell bent on using rape as a weapon there. Several more known cases of murder and attempt and attempted murder and terrorism connected to the order of nine angles and groups. They have major influence over like the atom waffen division national action the sonnen craig division and the nordic resistance movement now as the order is declared not only pro human sacrifice pro rape and pro sexual violence directed at children. You may have correctly surmised that when one of the oh nine a is run to ground by the authorities. They are very likely to be in possession of a lot of images of child pornography and child rape no need to dwell any further on that but it seems to be standard equipment for apprehended associates including a teenager. Who is the youngest person ever charged with terrorism in the uk. I think he was fifteen. So what of their semi leadership. Richard moult aka christos beast went underground for several years and seems to have denounced the group. He was living as a catholic. In a rural part of england. And it wasn't until he resurfaced as a fairly prominent of folk musician. His past was rediscovered by his bandmates. Who kicked him to the curb. Although having sworn off his past he seems once again to be active in the order. And what about david. Miot aka anton long very likely the actual originator of the order as i mentioned at the top. He's a fascinating figure. In addition to kicking the lid off this nightmare. He's a classical. Greek scholar has lived all over. the world. lived for a time as both a christian and buddhist monk And in the two thousands converted to islam moved to the middle east and in fluent arabic became the west most ardent spokesperson for an advocate of osama bin laden and called for total jihad against the decadent magin nazarene order of the west. He's lived a hell of life guys. I was gonna say that. Sounds like three lifetime three completely mistrial lifetimes. But he's a horrible human being but he's also incredibly fascinating He spent ten years doing this before. Renouncing islam and moving home to rural england as well where he apparently still lives and perhaps still quietly guides the order of nine angles from his keyboard. Many people think his time in islam was just another of his many insight roles infiltrate infiltrating a group in order to raise one's awareness and possibly destroyed from within. This may also have been the motivation for richard mulched renunciation of the order his conversion to catholicism and his time in the folksy but in either case these men seem to be still at large now in their later years and despite having unleashed a methodology for very disturbed disordered minds everywhere to become the worst versions of themselves. They seem unbel- unmolested by the police which is baffling to me. Well except that the what four members there are are all in the police. Now they well. That's the thing is. They think that there's different levels of association with the order. And you kind of choose and they see they have names. There's artists who can be associated with it. There's street gangs there's Individual black black magicians can have different associations with it and they are. There's a lot of worry about how infiltrated they are into the military and police forces in the united states canada germany. Least so they're the best estimates that these anti fascist groups make is. There might be two thousand of them in the world but that seems like a couple thousand too many. Yeah most definitely so. It's a really fascinating horrible. Evil truly truly evil but very fascinating group of people right and i've never heard of them. Never got all all american law enforcement has only recently become even aware of them while they stay have managed to keep themselves in the shadow so successfully and and you know what what one of the journalists i read was talking about is they. Don't you if you come across an order of nine angles member. He's not gonna tell you right. It's a secret orders rule of fight club. Not the sloppy s. Stupid skinheads right there. There are a whole different level of discipline does not proud boys so really fascinating. But how about that raged. I'll i'm gonna sleep. Great tonight fantastic. Thanks for that. And let's move on doc if well you're a little younger than me but if you're like me you know kid kid of the child of the eighties right. I grew up with. I'd grew up with the the youth pop culture. What i was allowed to see as a young mormon which wasn't a lot like the goebbert's and he sh- he man you know yeah. Gi joe but you know what was a huge. What was a huge thing in in movies and culture at the time was the corey's right You had corey haim corey feldman they. They were writer died together. Right those two little cuties and they were just the lost boys and probably other movies. Yeah i can't remember but it was all about the corey's i remember corey wasn't in the goonies sure was that was sean asks to no no. I think they're the same person. Okay all right fair enough. Four heyman shan weiss ganz edges the same person. Yeah so anyway. I don't know if did did you enjoy the corey's daniela. Well not as much as you did. But i probably i mean you know. Only one of them made it this far and we're and the truth is while one of them did die. I don't know which one of them actually made it this far. I don't know if corey feldman who who lived. I don't know if he's the one that we can say made it because he's distance. Yeah anyway look. I am going to talk about a corey To but before we get there I wanted to talk a little bit about something. I i recently watched and i think i think you guys may have watched at least some of this too I watched as much as i was able to stomach of a debate. It took place a few weeks ago on zoom and pitted friend of the show and full attorney andrew seidel against christian gas bag and kim adventure movie bad guy. Tom trento closing statement which was beautiful extraordinary job with that. Yeah throughout the whole thing. Andrew was clear and incisive and fair in his treatment of the subject where trento unfortunately league couldn't even see or hear andrew And instead was having a totally different debate with the ender shaped straw man that he had set up next to his webcam which is that he completely ignored the reality of the person. He was debating and just plowed forward with a plan. He had crafted ahead of time. That plan had nothing to do with the extendable topic of the debate nor did he address or even acknowledge anything that the good mr seidel had said after a while the whole thing descended into chaos with trento trying desperately to trap andrew with multiple choice questions that didn't include the correct answers and throwing tantrums when he wouldn't just choose one of the options and shut up. Well how is it going to win a debate right. Exactly i wouldn't bother watching the whole thing If i were any of you though as uncle mark says andrews opening and closing speeches both knock it out of the park. So he's so he's so brilliant and and decent. Yeah and and easy on the eyes to a handsome music if you like those clean cut types. The reason i bring this up is because it is the latest for me in a very long line of moments where a believer has decided that the atheist that they've constructed in their mind is obviously far more honest and real than anything an actual atheist might say so they just ignore the real people that are right in front of them and valiantly goes to battle against the straw man army of their imaginations. They applaud each other as they bravely. Scare as bravely sleighs scarecrow after scarecrow never bothering themselves with the distant sounds of real honest arguments. Meanwhile we nonbelievers sit on our park benches watching the whole live action role play as they stabbed their dull prop swords into dummies with our name scrawled on them and then they go off to regale their churches with the noble story of their righteous victory over the savage heathens. It's a tales oldest time. And today i'm gonna prove that. I'm going to talk about an og straw man that goes back more than two thousand years. But only if you actually believe what. Mormons believe otherwise it goes back two hundred years. Because that's why. And joseph smith fabricated a pretend ancient record of jews in the americas for today's lesson. We're going to talk about one of the great characters in the book of mormon not that there's much competition corridor so core hor comes to us and leaves us in a single chapter of the book of alma for anyone stupid enough to have attempted to have read the book of mormon all the way through. You know that alma which is book. Nine of fifteen is the one where you finally lose the will to live completely Coming in at sixty three chapters. It's almost twice as long as any of the other books are boy. Horror comes in Joins the party in chapter thirty. So it's it's a brutal brutal book log i. I often encouraged our listeners. To like go ahead and go to the source material and learn stuff for yourself. Obviously but like. Don't don't read this book. not this book. yeah believe me. read this book. We're we're doing it so you don't have exactly so chapter thirty starts. In the land of zahra hemlock which was one of our favorite ones with the neophytes who are gods good white and delight some little boys and girls burying their dead after a huge with the layman knights who are gods dark skinned baddies. The surviving laminates are kicked out. The fights have some of their have some days of fasting and morning in prayer and then since they got rid of all the dark people quote there began to be continual peace throughout the land. God not racist at all. No no shut up Literally everybody was good and kept all the commandments. and shit. it's it's it's weird. That cliven bundy loves this book. Isn't it. I just had that right. Yeah strange will. And it's such a trope in throughout the book of mormon Especially in the book of alma bit but throughout that entire populations just all act as one character. You know individual no individuality or there's no fax percent. yeah there's no factions. There's no nuance opinion. Yeah the richest people were evil. The people were evil. The people are righteous fucking well and that's exactly it. This is a classic joseph smith. Move here you fix all of the problems literally make everything perfect for years then realize that you have that you have to have conflict to have a story and little they turn their hearts away from god again again right which does make me wonder how many angry frustrated grumbles martin harris heard from behind the curtain as joseph was dictating. I i imagine it to be something like this. Joseph says does the people did have no disturbance in all the sixteenth year of the reign of the judges over the people of knee fi and it came to pass in the commencement of the seventeenth. Year of the reign of the judges. There was continual piece. So it's amazing. It's amazing how long you can. You can stretch out. Nothing happened right. Exactly or martin harris is probably like hey joseph is going to pick up anytime soon right. Oh yeah yeah sure. sure sure. Let's take lunch and then we'll come back and Pick it up so anyway when they did get back from lunch. Joseph introduces the story of cora. Hor and it's a hell of an introduction comes out swinging at this guy quote. There came a man into the land of zahra hamila and he was anti christ for he began to preach unto the people against the prophecies which had been spoken by the prophets concerning the coming of christ boom. That's what passes for character building this. Yep he's new in down and he's anti christ that says bad guy yeah exactly and he literally might be one of the most nuanced characters in the book of mormon. It's to that in that moment. That joseph smith didn't invent a pre pre columbian railroad for him to tie a woman to one hundred percent. Yes exactly now. He's not the anti christ mind you. he's just anti christ. Yeah later he is. He's handed la- leader. He's an anti christ. So lots of ways to use that phrase. I guess anyway. The point is that we're supposed to hate him and that's all we know about him for a minute. Then the ebook answers the question. We're all asking which is if he's preaching against the prophecies. Why isn't he getting his ass kicked. Well now. now we get to several versus. About the hemlock criminal justice system it turns out that in ancient mesoamerica you were legally allowed to believe or not believe. Isn't that nice. And there are several versus justifying this position. Because old joseph was clearly deeply ambivalent about whether heathens should be allowed to speak or not right but the knee of hemlock landed on yes you can be a disgusting evil satan worshipping shit bag atheist if you want to perv and the good book gives a series of reasons why god wants it that way. God wants an open society where people are free to believe what they want and they have the legal right to talk about their beliefs freely. Put a pin in that anyway. Seven versus later. We're back to this anti christ. Which in this book is hyphenated with. Both words capitalized. By the way he finally gets a name the name corridor and even though we just had an entire opening arguments episode about alternative religious views in fight law. It is once again emphasized that he's legally allowed to do this. No matter how mad that makes you anyway. Core is preaching. There will be no christ remember. This takes place before. Jesus this is like bbc. Seventy five or something like that. So there's still waiting for this messiah and that there's no god and that there's no evidence that the prophecies are true. He says quote. Oh ye that are bound down under a foolish and vain. Hope whitey. yoke yourselves with such foolish things. Why do you look for christ for. No man can know anything which is to come. Behold these things which ye call prophecies which you say are handed down by holy prophets behold. They are foolish. Traditions of your father's so i like this guy feels pretty right. I'm with you great. And here's what's interesting about this chapter. Joseph smith like all the screenwriters of all of the best godawful movie episodes has to thread a needle here if you want the character to be at all believable which you know. It's a book of mormon. Why start now but whatever he has to try to make him make some sense but it can't make too much sense or you know readers might realize that he's actually you know the one who's right. So joseph smith throws in classic the classic the a straw man which is people who leave the church. Just want to sin now. This one's ubiquitous in the modern era. If you google why do people come become atheists or why do people leave the church and you find a christian websites answer. I guarantee you somewhere on that page. You'll find this. They just want us in. yeah now. Nobody that i've ever met or even heard of became an atheist because they wanted to sit no way and religious people have no problem sending they do it all the time to church on sunday. It's not fucking biggie. Right considering a source of this material reading right now exactly yeah totally. Now i will say this. There are some folks who eventually noticed that. God's rules about sex were stupid and that led them to realize that god might not be real and then they went on to have a delightful and less fettered sex life. But that's not leaving because you want to sin that's leaving because you realize that you were lied to and then sending well. Inside the central contradiction. There is that if i'm not into religion those religious religiously mandated since or not since right. It's just having a drink or get though. They often though they they will often say. I've heard many a believer. Say well you still believe you just want to send so you pretend like you don't believe also put a pin in that anyway. Oh quarterhorse horse said quote. There could be no atonement made for the sins of men but every man fared in this life according to the management of the creature. I guess meeting were all just animals. Therefore every man prospered according to his genius and and that every man conquered according to his strength and whatsoever. A man did was no crime right. Yeah what atheists believe is that you can do whatever you want. And since there's no god to tell you what's right or wrong there's no such thing as crime and everything is god. Damn free parole. Yeah yup that's added wildlife entirely. It's what we're all about. It's why they're the prisons are packed with atheists positively overflowing Now regardless of that stupidity apparently a guy talking mostly reasonably about the logical problems of magic. Daddy's in the sky and wizards predicting the future was a welcome diversion in perfect step. Fortunes are a hamlet and a bunch of people started listening and liking what they were hearing and women and men immediately turned to quote committing horde. Them that's what worry orden's yeah exactly. Ooh his own. He should get a t shirt. Well that's his podcast. Exactly yeah any who core a horror did didn't stay in zor He took a show on the road. You went to the land of jerry sean. To preach to the people of ammon who used to be lamen nights They're the evil dark skinned ones remember. But here's a twist. These guys were more wise than the knee fights. It literally says that and they immediately bound core whore and dragged him in front of ammon who was the high priest who him to be quote carried out of the land. Didn't we spend an oddly. Long amount of time talking about how it was good and god or deigned. The people be free to preach whatever they want. Shut up is it really. It's a different time now idiot. Exactly literally. I guess i just love the place where they are. More wise is the place where they're going against. God's idea of how the law is supposed to go but anyway the idea that martin harris was probably from behind the curtain going. Hey you know you wrote that stuff about really no freedom of speech. Does she want to set up a theocracy. Shit it's literally this. This chapter goes back and forth on that issue a dozen times. It's it's your head starts to spin anyway. Then cora hor tried his shtick in the land of gideon and they bound him and took him to the high priest and the chief judge of the land named good dona. Now i'm i'm not. I'm going to read a pretty big section of this because it's the first time we actually hear what cohorts says and well. It's pretty fucking compelling so this is him talking to godot the high-priced you say this people is a free people. Behold i say they are in bondage. You say that those ancient prophecies are true. Behold i say you don't know that they are true you say that these people This is a guilty and fallen people because of the transgression of apparent hold. I say that a child is not guilty because of his parents and he also say that christ show come but behold i say he do not know the that you didn't do not know that there she'll be a christ and you also say that he shall be slain for the sins of the world. And thus you lead the people you lead away this people after the foolish traditions of your fathers and according to your own desires and you keep them down even as they were in bondage that they might glut. Oh the might glut yourselves. With the labors of their hands and they durst not look look up with boldness and they durst not enjoy their rights and privileges. They not make use of that which is their own less they should be less should offend their priests who do yoke them according to their desires and have brought them to believe by their traditions and their dreams and their whims and their and their visions and their pretend mysteries that they should if they did not do according to their words of offend some unknown being who they say is god a being who has never. Who's who is who never has been seen or known who never was nor ever will be to me. That is a pretty shocking slam. Dunk corey i wanna come on the show. Yeah excellent work. Yeah reading from an outsider's perspective. That is some hard hitting skepticism. Yeah anyway very reasonable totally reasonable. Yeah anyway the high priest did what all believers do. When they hear a skeptic challenge their beliefs he told horror that his heart was hard and shipped back to our hemlock. Because that's good writing. Why did we leave anyway. Where if we're just going back to stand before the big boss alma skunk done done now almaz guy who's going to set things right. He's the great wise high priest who has the apologetic to put cohort hitchens in his place. First he tackles the claim that the priests make money off the labor of the people and for this. He uses the classic apologetic do not. He literally takes several paragraphs to say. I make my own money so shut up. Then they say they get to the real stuff all my ass core if he believes in god and in christ core horse says a new. Hasn't he clear although rates. Yeah exactly almost says almost starts to do the classic logical fallacy and says what evidence have you that there is no god or that christ cometh not i say unto you that you have none save it is your word only thereby demonstrating that not only does he not understand who has the burden of proof but that he doesn't recognize that his own arguments can be turned back to him because guess who's word only is also the only evidence for the other side. Then he makes his big proof that god does indeed exist things. You know all the things that's literally as argument. He's shocked the coral can't see it. Frankly yeah so does the final gambit he asks for evidence that god is real. Show me a sign. He says i'll believe now in real life that is a one hundred percent reasonable thing to ask but almaz like but the things look at all the things that's your goddamn sign so core just refuses to acknowledge the things and and says that's not a very good argument. He's such a stubborn. It's acquaintances five ways. Right right a look. There's a world someone made the stars move. Someone makes it's like okay. That's pretty deep. Just the same argument over and over again. Obviously yeah where did it alone from. Yeah so this is the point in the story where it takes a tarantino pivot where we take one moment in this godforsaken book that feels slightly realistic and we plunge into adolescent doofus style. Magic reality revenge stupidity alma. Says you wanna sign. I'll show you assign since you won't shut up and stop ruining god for everybody. God will shut you up. And with that corps is struck dumb permanently and with that corridor like a good and consistent skeptic that he has always been admits in writing that he was wrong and that god must exist. because he can't speak anymore do you think he was carrying his own. Gold-plate jot that down on or do they provide you with one in the courts. What's really funny. And i didn't write this. But what's really funny. Is that when they ask him believing in god now somebody writes it to him as though so such a dumb as just ask him. It's far anyway anyway. yes there's another popular believers straw man right there because about how he always they throw the throw the in this a straw man about how he always secretly believed deep down and that satan tricked him by coming to him like an angel to tell him that there was no god because as we all know god right. Yeah non-belief so often starts with an angelic visitation skepticism. A supernatural right here. Exactly but honestly really. Who's the bad guy here. Cora horror has conflicting beliefs based on lack of evidence and once he gets good evidence even though it fucks him up for life he acknowledges it but that's not the takeaway that we're supposed to get no cora. Hor is pronounced wicked and ends up going door to door begging for food because apparently mute people can't work and everyone who has believed him reverts back to being a good little good little church mouse and eventually core horror was viciously trampled to death. Oh my god and lest you think that i'm skewing. How the book presents this fate you with the actual final verse of the chapter which has a rare moral of the story style ending and thus we see the end of him who perverted the ways of the lord thus we see that the devil will not support his children at the last day but deaths speedily drag them down to hell and the name of jesus christ amen. Yeah so he's he should stand as a shining example of the power of the gospel right and he should be like what you know. That's what they were teaching missionaries and the mtc is cory horwitz convinced. It took striking mute and then there were some scribblings in the courtroom yada yada but but the hardest of hearts can be changed and and according to their own belief system. Harp became a good guy. The am i wrong. Yeah oh yeah. But i think the takeaway from this story at least from their perspective is don't ask questions yeah right. It's meant to chill to put a chill into the spine of anyone who would dare ask for a sign or ask for evidence or ask for any kind of reality based reason to believe this. Well i don't know dan if you're gonna if you're gonna go go here but i do know a lot of people who had a faith crisis because of the story. Oh really in the same way that. I know of some people who had faith crises because of the story of jesus in the fig tree because if says in that story it wasn't fixed season just went up to the victory didn't have figs so fucked up. Yeah yeah in. This story like corridor is making valid points. He has questions you wants to know and god strikes him dumb right and he says i believe and it ends up being a poor beggar and and getting trampled today. Yeah what's the what's the point of changing your mind. You know like what value is there. Yeah and if you read the story and you're like okay. Here's the problem. I'm having the lesson of the story is not supposed to ask questions. But the story has caused me to have questions fucking. We're supposed to do with that. Yeah it's a mess it's a it's a fun little thing and again. Every time we do a story in the book of mormon. It's just a lesson in why we don't why we edit why we don't claim that our book was directly translating from another book that's directly from god and the and thus make it so that we can't actually like you know edit the other stuck with this garbage mess a story forever it's an albatross around their necks but there you go there you go The third corey. Yep go get out there and have a have a corey horror of time and let's move on. Hey uncle mark yes sir. I know that you you recently crossed a border that is that is somewhat impenetrable right now. Because you know we're still in the middle of a pandemic. I managed to slide through into a closed country. The largest undefended border in the world. Which is quite something. You just got a loop up a lot got you gotta make a run for it anyway. The one of the things that you did before you went there was to get yourself A shot in the arm. I sure did. And i'm glad i did. Yeah and i've got my appointment. I finally got an appointment. Because i finally utah in utah. I'm in an age group. That's going to get them. So i in a in a week and a half. I'm going to be getting my first. Shot they the oh. That's good so they finally lowered it to uncles exactly. It's now well yeah exactly like mark old people style but like you know as young spry uncles can get them to now here teenagers. Well that's right but the question is do i really want it. I think there's a lot to unpack their no it just venting. This disease is not a good idea for some reason. I'm not sure why. But i'm pretty sure that uncle doug you can tell me. Well i'm gonna do my best to convince you otherwise okay Yeah like uncle. Dan just referenced uncle mark and i have both been vaccinated. I'm so happy to hear about that down. He didn't know that that you're getting your vaccine in a in short order. Yeah that's great news and once the government has managed to get all podcasters vaccinated. They can move onto doctors nurses teachers and the general public so essential workers. That's right right so hopefully many of you out there have either received your first vaccination or getting close to being able to something tells me joe rogan's not going to be getting one but that's a subject for another needle would break trying to penetrate is fuck and skin. It's crazy that it's basically been one year since this all started depending on obviously where you are and so it's it's hard not to take stock of what we've all been through in these last twelve interminable months but as the experts keep telling us we are not through this yet and whether we actually get out of this depends on the vast majority of doing the right things. We still need to wash our hands. Practice proper social distancing stay away from parties sporting events and concerts wear masks diligently and get the fucking vaccine as soon as we all can. There is still a real possibility that this virus could mutate into something that makes all the sacrifice effort for nothing so the subject of my segments could not be more timely today. I wanna talk about anti vaccine and the anti vaccine movement like on this show. We've talked about every form and fashion of out. There of wu there. An anti vaccine is definitely a woo. But most moves are basically harmless. If you wanna get your palm read go for it. If you don't want to leave the house until you've read your daily horoscope cares if you want to try and communicate with your dead relatives via a ouija board. I light the candles for you if you want to stick ajay up your recently steamed gene. Cram the fucker up there. Just don't do it during allergy season. Jade is hypoallergenic. Of course these was. These lose can be harmful if say by following some fortune cookie prediction. You make bad decisions. And there are wounds that are that are inherently harmful like trepidation or reputation trepidation grimace conjuring. Being being reluctant is not a woo. Yeah but there is only one wou that is on the world health organization's top ten list of global health threats. And that's antitax or as they put it vaccine hesitancy want to know what else is on that list. Well covid nineteen obviously poor third world third world health. Care you bulla. Dang gay fever. Hiv and climate change. That's right guy fieri. You're that's right. The world health organization sees anti vacs as dangerous as aids and climate change. Jesus there is no real way to know how many people die every year due to anti vaccine damage it causes but the. Who believes that. At least one point five million people a year could be saved if vaccine distribution was marginally improved and one of the biggest impediments to that. Marginal improvement is the anti vaccine movement. So yeah i see you know the the numbers get big real fast As we'll discuss the anti vaccine movement could actually derail our defeat. Derail our efforts to defeat cove in nineteen plunging. His back into the pit where we we were all a year ago and killing millions more people unlike the viruses of the body this movement seeks to protect anti vaccine viruses of the mind and as such might be one of the deadliest viruses in history underlying all of this is the fact that anti vaccine stupid belligerent anti-science often racist and easily disapproval. Not only that. But it's also inconsistently applied illogical to its core and poorly thought out if any of its adherents think about it all. Oh they think they think hard they have developed many many vo ciprusov ways of defending their positions. So well if you say so. But we're not saying good or smartwatch. Just many many ways. Let's agree on loud. Okay unlike other words this one has to be confronted and defeated or were doomed. I would never tell you to slap the tarot cards out of the hands of the yoga instructor. You're trying to have sex with but if you know any anti vaccine you should really talk to them and try and change their mind. If this virus of the mind is not confronted and treated it could kill us all. So let's dig in shall we As early as the tenth century in china someone noticed that those who had previously had a mild case of a deadly disease where less susceptible to that disease later this led to a practice called variation wherein poss- or scabs from an infected person are blown up the nasal passages rubbed on scratches on the skin of an uninfected individual. I know this just sexy as it said. I know this sounds disgusting but honestly it was probably the least disgusting thing to have happened to you. On any given day in the tenth century why this practice worked in would would would remain a mystery for centuries but by the sixteenth and seventeenth century. It was in fairly wide use in china india and turkey before making its way to england in the eighteenth century. Now here's the thing. Eighteenth century england was certainly somewhat enlightened Certainly somewhat enlightened place for the world back then but that doesn't mean it wasn't still barbaric. Yeah so some of the first True scientific experiments of vaccines were carried out on children prisoners and slaves. None of who are you going to do it. On good like grown up white people essentially aldrin. This would pretty disposable. Then the children's a bad show for kids man doubt this would unfortunately be a part of the development and experimentation to vaccines for well over one hundred years as we'll see these evil practices would become a bit a small bit of the fodder that would become the anti vaccine movement But before we get to that let's talk about. How what what a game. Changing development vaccine science was for the human race prior to their development. When a disease crossover from some animal to humanity. All we can really do is just wait for it to run. Its course outbreaks of cholera influenza. And of course ends long. That's known as the trump plan. That's exactly right exactly so yeah. Outbreaks of cholera influenza and of course bubonic plague would kill millions of people per outbreak. The version of the botanic plague known as the black death killed between seventy five and two hundred million people between thirteen forty-six and thirteen fifty three. Jeez yeah bad guys. They were just week from. Hiv aids is still a global pandemic has killed more than thirty six million people. Since nineteen eighty-one of course there is not a vaccine yet for this disease but the therapeutics are incredible. If expensive and hiv aids is very preventable. The reasons that it has and continues to spread basically racism and religious are very much a part of the anti vaccine movement as we'll discuss but yeah i mean that you know. We were all alive during the aids crisis in the eighties. Although you know pretty young and pretty dumb but that was a terribly preventable disease. That was treated as a gay disease. A black disease on african disease and was able to spread. So that's good stuff and and and when people died of it it was horrid. It was absolutely horrible. Fact that these therapeutics are now exist when and guys that caught it in the original wave are dying of old age is incredible. It's incredible bears mentioning. We'll get back to this. That's not happening everywhere that aids problem but of course it's right exactly so in the eighteen eighties. Louis pasteur brought. What was a pretty chaotic and unorganized field of science into the modern age when he developed microbial fermentation and pasteurization. Since then we have developed vaccines for pure peer parl. Fever rabies anthrax cholera polio measles. Tetanus smallpox chickenpox influenza. hpv. Hepatitis lime disease. Rubella whooping cough wrote rotavirus mumps diptheria dang game malaria tuberculosis among others so It's you know it's been a game changing development for the human species. This of course brings us to today and the emergence of covid nineteen as we have all become acutely aware. This disease is incredibly contagious. Having spread from wuhan china to every corner of the globe in a matter of months as of the time of this record covid nineteen has killed two point six nine million people worldwide with the us accounting for five hundred thirty nine thousand of those deaths. So where number. One and because of the incumbent national governments the selfishness of far too many and the vast amounts of disinformation ready in the psychological bloodstream. From the anti vaccine movement this disease was poised to simply just wash around the globe over and over until mcnew and more resistant and more deadly strains evolved and let's not be too optimistic. This could still happen. We are in desperate. Yeah yeah we're we're in a desperate foot race against these variants as we speak the only way we can beat this virus back and stop the carnage let alone get back to some sort of normalcy is for enough of us in our fellow humans all over the world not just in our own countries to get the vaccines that are now available to reach her immunity. Now we've all heard that term. It is of course the critical mass of humans that have to have immunity such that the the the disease cannot spread with impunity. Excuse me the former president called it herd mentality suggests wrong in the most apt freudian slip in history once herd immunity is reached. The reproduction number reaches zero. This is called are not right or rs. Zero right now covid. Nineteen is between our two and our three meaning that each person who gets it can infect two to three other people in order to return immunity or not with covid nineteen fifty and sixty seven percent of the population needs the vaccine in america. This means one hundred and sixty four million two hundred twenty four million people need to be vaccinated but but more would be better always better. This is the baseline just to stop the the you know the the spread on but remember this is a global pandemic and the longer this disease persists anywhere. The higher the chance of chances that dangerous variants can evolve. Defeat the vaccines so to win this fifty to sixty seven percent of the populations of england china iraq togo and benin needs to be vaccinated worldwide. That is three point. Eight to five point. One billion people need to get vaccinated and fast as of now. Seventy seven or so million americans have received at least their first dose of the vaccine which is a good start but globally only four hundred ten million people have been vaccinated so far. That's bad that's only eight to eleven percent of where we need to be We are not through this yet and there is no time to spare and there is certainly not time for the disinformation campaign by the anti vaccine movement and its erstwhile allies The mere fact that we have these vaccines at all is truly incredible. And i've heard you know including us have referred to it is miraculously because that word by its very definition is meant to apply to events that defy explanation or explanation explanation or expectations. But this was not a miracle this was the achievement of scientists and the body of work. They have all contributed to. So let's talk about these vaccines for a second because it will. It will inform where we end up while the covid nineteen virus was new to humanity hence the term novel there was a robust body of knowledge of corona viruses out there due to the previous corona vices. Like sars and mers right. This data was shared globally in an open source initiative. Call g sad or id which shares genomic data on influenza viruses with anybody that wants it because of that body of knowledge we were not starting out from zero but even still Not only had to take years to develop vaccines in the past. There was not any vaccine in existence for any kind of corona virus so the challenge was extreme as the pandemic enveloped the globe in there in early. Two thousand twenty scientists were able to isolate covid. Nineteen genetic sequence on january eleventh twenty twenty which in itself is incredible next. there was. Yeah that's really quick. Super super quick next. There was an unprecedented collaborative Undertaken by national governments drug companies and research universities to find a vaccine. The main vehicles for this effort were the. Who an initiative by the g. twenty called access to covid nineteen tools. Accelerator so these are the two main bodies that kind of tried to coordinate all this research. I think you mean president. Trump's warp speed initiative. Well i'll i'll get to that for so k. and yes that's the w. h. o. That said donald trump pulled us from in may of twenty twenty because he needed to blame someone for his failures and this is true because they refuse to call it. The china virus which is something that would have no evil consequences at all right. Yeah that hasn't turned into anything even shittier nope no. It's been great so ankle. Dan mentioned warp speed in. May trump announced operation warp speed which was an effort to fast track. Funding clinical trials approval and distribution of potential vaccines. It was named operation warp speed because donald trump is a child. Yeah but the the the thing is also you think he ever watched star trek like he. The i'm guessing that was a that was a jared kushner name or don jr. something yeah i know like he doesn't seem to watch something like that in glean anything from it. He's just too fucking self is was the fact that it wasn't operation. Trump speed is pretty surprising. So the thing is it's not a bad idea to do this. But trump ran it early like he's run everything else in his life Into the ground basically. So although moderna moderna and johnson and johnson did take funding from warp speed to develop vaccines pfizer did not not wanting to infect pun intended their research with the trump administration's incompetence as for the distribution phase of warp speed. Trump did basically nothing right. God only knows how this would append out. Had he won the election point of order. He didn't do nothing. he took full credit for. That's exactly right it's true that's not nothing. That's what's so funny. Not only you know. He's claiming credit to this day for the vaccines. I think should give him some. You know some credit and respect because we all remember how much credit and respect trump gave the previous administration for the economy right exactly so trump is claiming credit for this to this day which sets up one of the many contradictions in the story. The foot soldiers in trump's army are by and large q. on believing anti vaccine and here we have trump winking at them while demanding credit for the vaccines yeah and very typically encouraging people to get vaccinated but keeping his own vaccination secret. This will not. It's but but you we know that the cue brain is incredibly incoherency is it's not a problem truly and i'm i remain convinced that trump didn't show a picture of getting the vaccine because he didn't want to see him in short sleeved shirt with his shirt pulled up. I believe right well. None of us wanted to see. That's i think him for it. That's fair so with all that context. Let's get to the anti vaccine. Since the first vaccinations there have been anti vaccine. There's there were those who objected to having scabs blown up their nostrils because it was gross and it was weird and no one understood why it worked or in many cases because religious leaders railed against these religious arguments ran the gamut from scientists devil worship to viruses were created by god to punish the wicked and any attempt to stop them was fighting against the will of god all right. It's it's the same reason that when ben franklin put a lightning rod on wherever it was town hall and philadelphia or whatever and all the churches inveighed against as as yup subverting god's will and then two years later they all had lightning round exactly. Yeah so in the nineteenth century there were anti vaccination leagues that sprung up in the us and the uk that slowed down the vaccination campaigns against smallpox and led to untold numbers of unnecessary deaths. Similar leagues appeared. All around the world. is that campaign continued. Most of these leagues focused on. What would become the main fear of all anti vaccine harm to children. Most current anti vaccine fall into two buckets with one being far larger and more nefarious than the other. The biggest grin. We just keep them in the bucket. Really we could seal it then. That would be great. the biggest group or those. That believe they are. There is some conspiracy or several conspiracies behind vaccines. And we'll get to that he's ranged from the profit motive of the pharmaceutical and medical industry all the way to alien experimentation of course whatever their particular belief is it's based on a belief in dark forces with no regard regard for public health. The second much smaller bucket are those that simply. Don't care enough to get vaccinated. They're part of the problem. So don't feel any need to be part of the solution so while the latter is certainly a cause for concern. It's the former group that is a global crisis and there are different kinds of anti vaccine. There's some who to completely deny an issue any kind of accent. There are some that want to spread out. Vaccinations over time. Only get this one or that one so the kind of run the gamut but they pretty much all believe the same things. they're all looking at the same materials and so we're going to keep them in a single group for the purpose of this discussion. Because whatever you're doing if you're slowing down vaccines or you're not getting him. You're the effect is the same right. Modern yeah the modern iteration of this insanity has its roots in the campaign to vaccinate against it. Fury tetanus pertussis hope. I said that right process. I think in the nineteen seventies conflicting and spurious reports appeared in the uk press that there was significant neurological after effects from this vaccine in children. Not true but in the history of followed a film called vaccination roulette and a book called a shot in the dark hit the market. These two works described. Dark conspiracies joins stuck what this was in the nineteen seventies late nineteen seventies early august. Okay this you know what we call the anti vaccine movement isn't that old you know and i thought actually well it didn't get get it's real. We'll get to early where it kinda got so it's injection so to speak right But the so both these films were films. Booker complete hui. But they're still around today. There's still in circulation then came the inciting incident of the modern anti vaccine movement in nineteen ninety eight a british physician named andrew wakefield released a paper in the lancet called iliad lymphoid najah hyperplasia nonspecific colitis and pervasive developmental disorder. In children. try saying that three times or just once The paper claimed a link between vaccinations for measles. Mumps rubella and autism in children right given the wakefield was a doctor at the time. He's not anymore right and the paper sounded scientific. It caused a major stir one that we are still feeling today. I don't want to spend too much time on wakefield because he is truly one of the world's greatest monsters and quite literally may have as much blood on his hands. As any of history's greatest villains. Yeah he's essentially a baby murderer. Yeah yeah Except to say that it turns out that he was paid by various organizations to produce the paper and the paper itself was so completely spurious. That lancet retracted wakefield with stripped of his medical license. That hasn't stopped him though he was behind. The you know quote unquote documentary faxed. That came out in the in the two thousands with the tagline. The movie they don't want you to see gotta love that. That's a that all conspiracy theories that's catnap right exactly and it's basically the citizen kane of the anti vaccine movement. Glenn watch the trailer for this monster. Snipe nightmare if you're up to it. And if you're not filled with boiling hate for wakefield. I don't wanna know you. It's necessary it's manipulative. It's grotesque it's shocking. The godawful movies guys did it right. Yeah i think they pound a nail. It's horrible and not for nothing but because you know autism is tragic and it's very difficult for families of autistic people to you know to raise autistic children and And again i'm. I'm not trying to shame her or anyone out. There is offended by. I don't mean that. By any stretch. I i would i would. I would ask to modify tragic. I think it's just simply a a different way of being that yes can be more challenging. Yeah of course and but to try and manipulate people with autistic children autistic family members and use that video to manipulate others. I think his tragic up and completely missing from the conversation is the fact that autism is way better than most of the diseases. Which vaccines present promote google fucking picture of smallpox. So in the in the research or polio polio. And the research for this. I saw a lot of. What's so fucked up. Is i saw a lot of photos about this stuff. From recent like not pictures of people with smallpox in eighteen ninety smallpox is as it recurred it. The smallpox hasn't but polio has had some outbreaks and stuff like that. Because of this fucking shit so the sequel to this piece of shit vacs movie faxed to the people's truth. Electric google was released in november of two thousand nineteen mere months before the covid pandemic and. I don't want to wish ill on people. So i'm gonna stop talking about wakefield right now But this this fear that these vaccines caused autism was based on the fact Pounded in these documentaries that these vaccines contain traced can contained trace amounts of mercury in the form of a chemical called mirasol which contains forty nine percent methylmercury ever so little mirasol was used in these vaccines that it came nowhere near a dose that could potentially cause harm and in fact in two thousand three danish researchers conducted a study involving thousands of children who who received vaccines containing and thousands who receive vaccines that contain none and they found that the instances of autism was exactly the same in both groups. This these vaccines the mirasol. A methylmercury are not causing autism but the mirasol has been removed from almost every major vaccine simply due to the public perception. Yeah so The unfortunate truth though is this fear vaccines and medical science. Being less than forthright and ethical is not entirely without cause. I mentioned earlier. That the first vaccination experiments were carried out on slaves children and prisoners. Not good then. I don't want slaves and prisoners to get it but i'm just wondering why the children are thrown in there. I think it is i think. No i think it's because a lot of these diseases struck children's childhood okay. So they're they're like oh we'll just use children to experiment with ren of course there were. There were the tuskegee. Experiments carried out by the public. Health service tuskegee university. And the cdc in which african american men were told. They were being given free healthcare to treat their syphilis when in reality they were not and for forty years. They were observed to see what long term syphilis would do to the human body. Yeah this led to the painful and miserable death of one hundred twenty eight of the men. It is one of the darkest chapters in american medical history and has been a consistent reason for mistrust of the us government particularly by african americans. Ever since for good reason yeah there are. There are some people that are that. I think are justified in their hesitancy. Yep but it's not fucking jenny mccarthy and you know her fucking social set of white upper class liberals in hollywood bowl right. Yeah and we'll definitely we'll we'll dig into that and hate on some people here in a minute But the tuskegee experiments diddley disa- major reforms in the us health industry that remain today including the creation of the office for human research protections within the health and human health and human services administration so these exist specifically to prevent anything like that from ever happening again. The body of law that exists because of to gigi is significant but if your natural inclination is to mistrust the government will the tuskegee experiment. Certainly don't help yeah Another tenant of the anti vaccine movement is something called vaccine overload. This is not a medical term by the way but essentially means that too much vaccine or vaccines administered in two rapid a succession will weaken the immune system and lead to adverse affects again. This is hogwash. Not only have so. This is a really interesting fact. Not only a vaccine become so efficacious over the last several decades such that the immune immunological components in the fourteen. Vaccines administered to children. Today is less than ten percent of what it was in the seven. Vaccines administered in nineteen eighty hour. Yeah it's the vaccine. Science has has come a long way and not for nothing but many vaccines must be administered on a specific timeline. In order to work yet right yeah vaccine overload. Unfortunately it's still a common try amongst Anti vaxxers ironically the success of many vaccines one of the main driving forces behind behind the anti vaccine trump actually brought that up at one of the debates for he was president. Yeah it just saying well. Why don't we just space it out more exactly. Yep so the success of many vaccines ironically working against them. You know quote. Nobody has measles or polio anymore. So why do they keep injecting us with. It is like a common trope of anti vaccine so while the answer to this seems so obvious as to be mind-blowing it's very common Because of this. Ironically antibac- sentiment has caused outbreaks of cholera whooping cough measles mumps into brick yellow says in the united states in the last several years I'm all of which were basically eliminated up exactly. I mentioned before that there is inherent racism to anti vaccine movement because there is the firstly the anti vaccine movement is heavily involved in all things conspiratorial including and on which are inherently racist. Nobody wants to be called a racist especially racist. Most anti actors don't even wanna called bat preferring the moniker vaccine risk aware and you know anti vaccine is by no means only a white phenomenon however the communities often hit first and hit hardest by disease outbreaks or black and brown communities one of the best ways to combat and curb the spread of of viral diseases is to get them where they start which is oftentimes poorer countries so back in two thousand fourteen. We went to west african. We the us went to west africa to help prevent the spread of a bola and successfully managed to keep this terrible disease from spreading out of control. Guess what anti vaccine are often against funding for efforts in these poor often black and brown countries. We're seeing this in real time now with covid. Nineteen the reasons that black and brown communities are medically disadvantaged are many and systemic but they are undeniable. Yeah so i'm sorry. If you're unsubstantiated ridiculous and easily just provable. Beliefs lead to bad outcomes in primarily black and brown communities. I don't know what else to that racist. Anti vaccine just stinks of white privilege front. Yes it does for sure yet it unfortunately. This movement has garnered some famous kind of and powerful adherents for minor. Celebrities like jessica biel jim carey jenny. Mccarthy leashes still re silverstone gentleman juliette lewis. Charlie sheen rob Danny masterson selma blair and to a certain extent bill. Maher up to god. help me robert deniro. I know that. Oh that one hurts. Yeah yeah really why. Well i mean. I guess i still want my money back for bad grandpa but expect good actor but i never thought of is an idiot. Yeah exactly yeah well and then not to mention like you said. Uncle mark the forty fifth president of the united states donald j trump among many tweets and outbursts on the subject. He tweeted in two thousand fourteen quote healthy young child goes to doctor gets pumped with massive shot of many vaccines doesn't feel good and changes autism. Many such doesn't feel good and changes was. It was a good tweet though. We gotta give him credit for that. That's a solid there. So yeah the man. In charge of project warp speed the government initiative to generate and distribute a vaccine from may of twenty twenty two january of two thousand twenty. One was an anti vaccine and then of course the overwhelming scientific consensus is that vaccines are widely safe in effect ineffective. There aren't many things that have such a consensus if four out of five. Dentists recommend a toothbrush. You're going to go buy it yet. That's nothing compared to the consensus on vaccines right and not for nothing. We've harped on this before. The scientific method that led to vaccines is the same method. That has led to air travel smartphones. Gps viagra the germ theory of disease. Chris larynx jar jar. Binks electricity the internet and grimace conjuring. You don't get to pick and choose here you believe in reputable science or you don't and if you don't that's fine but pleased to be handing your car keys and laptop. You can be skeptical about it but once the once you examine the evidence right. There's nothing to support the anti vaccine position exactly well except that they've got their own evidence and a they've got a whole cadre of their own doctors and their own scientists to save the opposite things and go ahead go ahead. I was going to say and you're going to mention this but the catholic church of course just came out and said cat. Catholic shouldn't get the johnson and johnson vaccine because fetal tissue was part of the research. I didn't even know that. Yep i'm gonna. I'm gonna go punch a hole in my television real quick. Yeah so this brings us to our current crisis throughout the covert bent pandemic anti vaccines have been howling that this was a hoax or that it was a bio weapon that the chinese either released on purpose lost control of and now that the vaccines are untested and dangerous. This was all spelled out in yet another quote unquote documentary released in two thousand twenty called. Plan democ oh yeah. This piece of propaganda push push the conspiracy. That covid was manmade. The doctors and hospitals use the pandemic as a money making venture. That masks actually caused disease and that hydroxychloroquine is active in stopping cove. It absolutely none of this is true and his counterproductive dangerous. But if you know any anti vaccine is you can bet money. They've seen it. So the filmmakers have been discredited the whole thing is a piece of shit But it's out there and the final piece of the puzzle to talk about is the speed with which the covid vaccines were developed. Rather than with develop. Because that's a big trope of anti vaccine is this came out too fast Rather than seeing this as a towering achievement of medical science anti factors point to it as proof that it's all rigged their point being that the government had them all along or they weren't tested rigorously enough and we don't know what's in them or both or both legs to believe all the things that can believe all the things regardless of what it whether it makes any sense to the first point i can only say that if donald trump had been hiding the vaccine this whole time and the early release would have guaranteed victory. Is there any personal life. That thinks he would not have blurted it out at some point tolerate to the second point we do know what's in these vaccines you can look it up online. The thing is if you're not a medical or virological expert or can speak english like me. You're probably not going to fully understand the you know what's in the stuff but again i don't fully understand how the internal combustion engine works but i don't think it's a government conspiracy to get me to work on time in your car. People know it's fucking pizza when they order. That's exactly what i find it. Hard to stomach the argument that we should refuse to put something in her body unless we fully understand what it's what it's from. What's in it from the people who celebrate the return of the mcrib right right Yeah i mean think about that. The next time you cram doritos in your mouth and wash it. Down with vodka tonic so anyway And they were rigorous rigorously tested. No steps were skipped in stroke of genius. Many of the steps necessary to create and test vaccine were run concurrently rather than in sequence and insert and some of the funding for this process. Came from you guessed. It operation warp speed so through the teeth. If you must you can tell your antitax friends. That trump deserves some credit here although with five hundred thirty nine thousand caveats. Yeah so we're getting a little long in the tooth here. I thought it was important to cover all this ground. So let's just sum up. Vaccines do not cause autism. In children there is no such thing as vaccine overload. We know exactly what's in the covid vaccines they were absolutely tested are very safe and you should not be taking your medical advice from charlie sheen adam right. Take it from us exactly. Take it from your doctor. So you know i hate to do this. But if there are any anti vaccine in your life it might be a worthwhile effort to engage with them and try if you can to convince them or enlighten them or move them because this thing is bad. It's real bad and we need everybody onboard. Unfortunately it's not just a matter of well they're only risking their own lives because they're not. There's there's no peeing section. The public pool is it. Is it so dangerous to them. They're willing to go through another fucking year of this right. You know four or five years because who knows if a variant pops up that's trickier. That's harder to make a vaccine for. Yeah we're all fucked so thank. God we've got a vaccine yup get it get. Let's get the herd immunity so that you were okay. We need to do this together. And and you know someone's going to have to talk to these people going to have to be us. It's gonna have to be us if if not now when if not who us. That's right all right okay. Well thanks uncle doug. I know there was a lot of work. Yeah all right. let's move on. Well friends that is it for this week's barn burner of show. Hey you hate vaccinations. We'd love to hear from you because we want to yell at you send us an email at how to and how to heretic dot com or if you're an anti galactic safeness some kind don't bother calling us about it at nine zero three eight eight to nine three hundred four six hundred six. I'm also twitter heretic and always thinks where patrons who we will get back with next week and thanks to our dark lord cody layton frenzy show and thanks to all of you friends for tuning in by friends.

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#53 I Retaillessen met Theo Koomen, Managing Director Lucardi | De RetailTrends Podcast

De RetailTrends Podcast

54:21 min | Last week

#53 I Retaillessen met Theo Koomen, Managing Director Lucardi | De RetailTrends Podcast

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POW! Prasad Rayala, Samsung DeX

POW! Samsung Developer Program

30:12 min | 11 months ago

POW! Prasad Rayala, Samsung DeX

"Hey I'm Toni Moreland and this is POW podcasts of wisdom from the Simpson developed program but we talk about the latest tech trends and get insight into all of the opportunities available for developers looking to create for. Samsung. On today show I'm view facade, Roya Product. Manager for debts the Simpson Technology that allows users to extend their galaxy mobile device into a desktop computing experience. Not only do we talk about the advantages for developers? Their. APPS for decks. But how he traveled to Australia just before covid nineteen hit and with the borders closed, you can't come back. Enjoy. William Super excited to have with me presided. On the PODCAST I need to I, ask who is Prasada. Hey, thanks for having me I'm a product manager Samsung Electronics. I Kohler. Mobile enrollment than Knox man is products on recently epic. The deck says will and. In. My role I woke with the original teams to enable them. With the what's new with these products, how they can be offered customers? What challenges customers are facing in implementing these solutions on the other side, I work with our auditor James to enhance these solutions based on feedback we received from our customers partners. So how long have you been? Samsung for. A total of six years. Three years with the Samsung America in three years. Absent Dubai I. Didn't realize that she worked in Dubai. Two years and then I moved to something else did you study tech when you're in college? I am an engineer but I studied civil engineering. To considerable exemplary just. Dive Mutu. It I started my career with the as a program on the metering systems es foreign read doing the Y2k era I then moved to Jolla programming languages and I've been working hoax in company in India. For older decade while I was with them was posted to Dubai. A demand is the customer relationships there. while I was in, Dubai came across an opportunity to join Samsung to man is. A large-scale smart learning project where about forty classrooms across the country. Needs to be digitized with the large. Displays in the classrooms and also provide devices was students to consume the content. That was in two thousand thirteen and after completing the project I moved to the mobility side and knocks was just launched the time and I was constituted spread awareness of Knox work with partners. Believe was system just take it to the market and I continued in that role for about three years in twenty sixteen, I moved to the US enjoined a global knock solution engineering team. On since then I've done different roles like Solution Engineering Partner Management Project Management, and now product management. You know recently did a podcast interview with the Knox partner. program. Yes. Excellent. Yeah. I mean it's a great How do partners BELISCE Aleutians get supple than Actually, work with the same thing in promoting solutions it's a nice platform. So you mentioned that you eventually made it to the US tell me where you based out of right now. I work out of our mountain view office. In the bay area we also have The knocked America are US became also operates majority knocks. On auditees engineering the productivity work out of that offices. In is that where you're at right at this moment as of this moment, I'm in Melbourne Australia. My family lives here and I came to visit them mid of margin since then I'm stuck here because of the closures on both sides says continued to work remotely raising, go all the technical capabilities commpany variety index. I can't imagine what that must be. Glad to know that you and your family are safe and that you're able to continue working. Hopefully in the voters will open and you'll be able to come home but I'm just not sure when that's going to be. Let's talk a bit more about decks. Now, what exactly is decks? So Samson becks is a software platform that. Or smartphone or tablet into a desktop computing experience, it is built into many of the latest Samsung smartphones and tablets. It's free. You don't have the by anything all of you to get started using decks just a monitor hits, GMI ADAPTER END keyboard mouse, and with Dr Latest Galaxy Note Twenty you can use decks wirelessly on most of your TV's support meter cast. Of the best part is why you are running backs on the Monitor. You can continue to use your device at the same time. So you're attending video conference on the big screen, but he can also take notes are bras to your emails on your delays at the same time. So I know my first experience with decks was a little a year ago and back then actually had to stick it into a cradle. So you're saying now it's it's made a cast ESPN larger display to MIRA cast wide leslie vendex was launched with Galaxy S. eight. Yes. There were a couple of hardware accessories like a cradle was quite boo Pluggedin v graduated from there wireless activity now there are. Certain limitations, any number of APPS can run a while you're connected wirelessly. But you have the option of just going into a meeting room connecting to a display, AD Leslie and running your presentation software full. So can you tell me where did the name decks come from? What does that mean? Yeah, anything ending with exit? Catchy. Right. But decks is a shot version of a desktop audience. When you activate it by connecting your phone or tablet or monitor you'll get the familiar looking fellow for desktop around meant with features and functions you're used to multiple and recyclable windows, keyboard shortcuts, and dragon draw extra do users to install any special apps or using special API is to enable Samson decks on their devices. No, no special applications required it's pre ability on the device founder You don't have to install anything It just need to devise to a monitor with cable index will launch automatically an IT, administrator around other side can control of the decks experience like allowing this alluring enabling becks and choosing which applications can run index mode. Okay. Can Be done using their preferred em. So definitely for security, that's a an important aspect is decks only compatible with android or is it compatible beyond the android less? So decks can be used in three different variations the to meet various needs i. you can use it by connecting your Samsung android device to monitor all, you can run it in a standalone mode on the tablet screen without connecting to monitor or you can use your pc or Mac by installing an application on the MAC or PC. Do is through USB cable and run decks on your. Laptop or Mac, but the experience itself is powered by the software. In both on Samson smartphones tablets. So what applications can use a index mode pretty much any android application running on your devices can be run index mode all your favorite business applications like Microsoft, office mobile suite of Adobe, APPs for creative professionals videoconferencing APPs like Microsoft teams were exude Bluejeans, etc while okay. Yes and if you're to laying on legacy windows applications that do not how mobilized web versions you can use a desktop applications like vm six. We didn't decks attracts windows stop from your phone and it's not just all work. It can have some fun. Do you complete your favorite games on a big screen and? Use Your keyboard mouse giving keyboard most to play to control the the game experience bigger screen. Wow I didn't know that. That's that's that's definitely a great advantage. So, let's talk a bit about developing for deck. So if I'm a developer, why should I optimize my APP for decks? Have you based on some market research? We found the majority of it workers use two or more devices for work a full laptop. Tablet laptop desktop. To. Van multitasking between these days productivity is lost due to incompatibility between the operating systems and Applications Thompson decks minimises bringing pc like experience to your mobile devices. Applications optimized for decks can take advantage of androids, multi window features where users can open multiple APPS in the same session to work, connect and interact seamlessly together. On because these applications will be running on larger screen index mode. You can use additional features like drag and drop files between windows copy paste between multiple applications and. Navigate between APPs with your familiar keyboard shortcuts. We talked a little bit about covid how you're in Australia at the moment because of the borders you know pretty much the country's working from home. So talk a bit about the benefits of developers optimizing their APPs considering that people are now working at home more. Yeah I mean the. Scene Shift in many thinks that we're. Doing. Say working from home for an hour is different from working from home for six months. Teaching kids for a couple of hours from home is different from remote learning toward today. So enabling secure and product to work from home setup is one of the use cases of X.. Imagine. You're about to jump onto video conference call with your team on your laptop and decides to go through the noise of this. Right, at that moment. All you get a blue. You don't have reschedule your call. You can just kind of do reform to the Monitor and fight up your accent joined the call You can continue checking your emails, take notes or even collaborated with your team by sharing your screen while you're on the video conferencing. toolbox. If you need access to window snyder applications. Yes. You can fight up video solution like citric severe wear and if you haven't application running in education space to say of strings will be able to utilize a large screen, drax your solution and use the pen on the tablets to take notes session. That's great with this whole distance learning any sort of tools that we can offer to our students to to help is definitely a huge benefit. The my son school is using gooby classroom and the day share a lot of material for kids to work on some Matt Worksheet et Cetera. He's been printing them when the writing on them, when scanning and the shading with their teachers. Told Them. Why don't you use your expensive? No, he's converting it to pdf he's editing writing on the tablet itself just saving it locally and sharing with A. using lot of. Printing toll. Some. Definitely definitely. That's great. So what has Samsung decks drive awareness for developers? Since. Launch Deck Samson is what closely with developer community in? Business applications take advantage of the benefits offered by DEX every year assumption deliver conference. There are dedicated top tracks and Hanson laps but offered a lot of articles and videos sexes enabling sudden use cases in verticals like public safety, healthcare and education. These are published on a Samsung insights. Portal end is dedicated a section on the developer website for Samson to help developers start the journey and optimizing their APPs for becks. That's excellent any chance that there's. Some sample code out there for developers who want to take a look at it and understand a little bit more absolutely There are Hanson videos on the developer dot, Sampson dot com, how to optimize applications, and there is some sample code explaining each optimization. They can do these videos great just pause them make changes to our APP and their instructions on how to test your application running on decks except a lot of resources on developer. Dot Com. That's that's great. So we talked a little bit about your experience with Knox. So let's talk about what his decks done related to security. Decks doesn't really interfere with security it fully. Applies with the policies set by administrator tool that Yemen. Say you want to attach a picture you took on your full intuit email. and. If your administrator has blocked access to the polls on your laptop for security reasons. Huddle you send your picture later emitted yourself our platoon party of cloud stories, but or not to offend not secure enough. Soviet. The decks you'll have that seamless access of your local files on your device, which you can just drag and drop these files onto your email client running on your device itself. So no more emailing it yourself. Applauding to third party? File. Shedding system. You can also leave raise your biometrics to set up Samsung Pass on on on your device to access your online without having to type in your password every time on the personal side if you are using. This secure Florida where you might have installed since two applications like banking are you still the information you can continue to use? It won't interfere with the. Successful dirt. So. So. I had mentioned earlier that the version of decks that I had with where I put my device into a cradle. So I I know the decks has evolved. So talk a little bit about where decks originated from and what what's become. then. So the mobile devices is not designed to run multiple locations at the same time right to. So yes, there can be background or petitions ending, but US typically in France with one application at the time, there's no multi window, but as decks enables the multi taping does feature. Devices can heat up pretty quickly. So do I worship of day it was introduced on Galaxy. Say there was a docking accessibility station or expired was required star desktop experience on put for us. So these accessory that had a little finding sites keep the. Pool and ports to connect your keyboard mouse. It's the. Cure monitored. Of It's not nine, the need for these docking at societies will it was eliminator by introducing? Decks hits deal my adopter are simple cable are among tabled adopter. If you need to connect to prepare for us in two thousand, nineteen, the launch of a not ten decks floor P. C. was introduced I talked before rare you can install an application on your pc Mac and access decks right from your computer with Notre Dame don't need any way any cable you can just connect your full endure miracle has supported this TVs wirelessly. So you've mentioned a little bit about multi window. Are there any other specific types of optimizations? Can Be done. Yeah. Minimum tax optimized application should suppled multi window keyboard most saint books and handle runtime conflation changes. Generally if an APP follows best practices of android programming, it'll successfully run index mode without any cold changes. That are no. Samsung specific is dedicated integrate Arabia's to call mugged window support bols minimizing maximizing resizing application windows. Only the manifest file needs to be updated to support this feature to enable keyboard and mouse support. You just do not explicitly declared pets clean supporting your manifest and keep in mind that when application switches between mobile and desktop mode random configurations change. This is similar to an orientation change from portrait to landscape these runtime confrontation changes May. Result in forcing the PK to restart when switching between mobile index month, you don't want a Webex session that you joined from phone to restart. When you launch decks mode to award this just follow andrex guideline on handling conflagration changes on Best Practices for building a sponsor design that seems pretty straightforward. What about some new decks features like finger gestures or or Dragon? Yeah. So dragon drop copy paste these features have been there from the beginning. The finger gestures your mentioning is how you use your device screen as a touch pad. When you are index mode by Kinko is to the Monitor. If you do not have him ause, you can convert your device green as a touchback to interact with the decks Enron. Just, like traditional touch on a laptop as single tap on your phone screen is same as your mouth left kick at double tap is like a right click. You can pinch your fingers to zoom etc. so what types of APPs thin developers optimizing for decks? So any application used in a workplace sitting Reiko applications videoconferencing are specific oracle focused applications like a healthcare or education. These are all applications that can be optimized. Any obligation that can benefit from a stop expedience running on large screen. He's a candidate for optimization. I it's not just limited to again woke apps you can optimism of your game says will if you will of the Games can be. Educational might my daughter's learning how to count by twos tease force she just started a modification and there are a lot of. Lessons or their rich are gamified. Instrument for watching those on a seven inch screen outer ten inch laptop by I'm letting her watch those things. So on my assumption TV. On larger screen then she's happy with it. Oh, that's that's excellent. So let's talk about some of the challenges has decks had to face challenges that you can share. Yes. So Day so our goal is to close the gap between desktop and mobile computing experiences. It won't happen overnight. We need to build an ecosystem index to support different use cases. We are pretty confident about meeting the mobile workers sneeze but we know we have some work to do in other words goals. Are Investing heavily in enhancing the core capabilities of the device itself to support different vertical use cases along with leveraging capable of our partners. There are some exacting some the roadmap. So watch the space through this year the early next year. Excellent. So let's talk about some of the areas of success. Then what can you share that that you're proud of the the decks has accomplished? So you've seen decks on updating almost all industries saying. Their patient experiences improved to seamless continuity from doctors, workstation to patient rooms and back again. associated can use a single device to browse through in wintry check prizes are assist customers of the checkout all with a single do is. In public safety officer can use his mobile phone while in the field are inside the lake outer station save in a endurance or construction space. You can consolidate your hardware. So you have access to everything you need while in the field without having to go back and forth between devices. So v we continue to work with our partners and customers. To, identify different of use cases in retail bank branches denies use case where the bank associate to can interact with the customer to a dual screen kind of more where associated will be accessing Presenting different, loan options, critical options to the customer and the customer will be using tablet fill in his or her personal information both sharing the same device assault. They're nice use cases we are discovering. Our customers are help improving the product with the the use cases they have in their specific articles businesses. Yeah and I can totally see where you know we're in the middle of this pandemic with Cova, in it's pretty obvious that even when we get beyond this pandemic, I think our society is going to be making a shift towards how we're conducting a lot of our. day-to-day business. So just your example there of how working with bank institutions and being able to share screens, but yet stay within your device I think is is very, very contagious. So what advice do you have for developers looking to get started modifying their APPS for decks? So you've never experienced their necks you don't know how your. Application looks and fields on a large screen just thought simple enable multi window keyboard shortcuts, and just connect your do is. Launch Application and just see the magic. These changes do not require any change, your core, and just a manifest could just make some changes many. Once you see Runs. On a larger device with three sizable windows, dragon etc. then little you to think outside the seven inch screen Europe is designed to run on. Are you can Dan gone explore more android unique creatures Alexei contractual men are using their most veal to zoom in say you have a map solution notification you can use your the most will zoom in and out of the affects occur. That's great. So for developer that wants to get started what's the best way for them to learn more visit our website that they can go to? Yeah to understand what specific solutions are best optimized for Decca Checkout Samson decks, dot com it gives an overview of the solution itself how it runs Houghton relate what was run on execrable. nyu to decks for business section to understand how it's used in different verticals. May Be operating in a specific industry. It'll help understand how dexin is in use cases in that industry. and. There are a lot of videos on youtube on just decks books from Samson team and independent. Analysts. Users of their who try decks of for different use cases, and finally when you ready to start up missing your application, Goto developer Dot Samsung Dot. Com and go to the deck section at follow the instructions stock symbol just start up his your. That's that's great. That sounds actually pretty darn pretty darn easy. So are there any news or any events coming up that We can get excited about from decks. So as much as we wanted to be frontier for customers and partners. The So we are going as much as possible of the headed to. What experience event in July where industry experts advise? How businesses can adjust to the new novel. V of also launched a series of online events called Samson together where we host a one hour session without partners to introduce neutral nations bringing together to help our customers navigate this difficult situations, meka Codex in detail in the last episode though handsome demonstrations. Of use, cases discussed exit Russell Checkout Samson together, this series of one hour sessions and the last session covered Dexin data. That's great. That's great. Thank you for that and I will be linking to all of this in the show notes for this episode. So make it easy for for our listeners to find those pages if people want to contact you or the decks team, what is the best way for them to do that? So the? Instructions are local Dot Samson. Dot Com are pretty self explanatory with a lot of videos and sample code, etc. But if you still need help by sending a request with your question inside the portal, there is dedicated team round the clock to help you the track vacations but it will reward in the world reserve team in your time zone of ponting, you would have questions of make use of the contact form on the Samsung Dot Com. Excellent. So a couple of last questions for you. So I I want to ask is when you're not working, what do you do for fun? So can you really say when you're not working that your total? You're always hoped onto the. There's no. There's no distinction between Your at-work at home you're always. Okay. So when you're outside and you're unplugged. Mostly, I spend my time with my family outside my work might Keep me busy helping them with this remote learning or not just keeping them busy even when they're not learning. But if I can. Sneak out some time while mostly exploding my neighborhood King I. Love to go on slow long walks probably some hikes. So the last question, you had mentioned that you were studying as a civil engineer and then you actually got to spend time in Dubai. What was that like with the I'm sure you're amazed with all of the the buildings that you saw there. So. Divide goes to the cycles of real estate boom-and-bust straight win. It's booming. You could see toes of these cranes setup did go work. Because, they need to make use of the limited space that have spread out. So they go vertical minimum you'll see like thirty fifty floor's. The Samsung. Office. was on a fifty first fifty second floor and could sound from there. The Palm Jumeirah daily. There lot of genetic model picture of the and rotating tower submissive competing to need new unique designs of their challenging working Rodman right at the temperatures constantly Abo- one, hundred forty sometimes it's very challenging sometimes. This fun. you taking the time to join me on the PODCAST. Thank you very much. Thanks. Tony. Thanks for having me. Looking to start creating for Samson, download the latest tools to Code your next APP or get software for designing APPS without coding it. All sell your APPs to the world on the Samsung. Galaxy. STORE CHECK OUT DEVELOPER UP SAMSUNG DOT com today and start your journey with Samson. The podcast brought to you by the Simpson developer program and produced, by Toni Moreland.

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Swarfcast Ep. 52  Harry Eighmy of ATP on Running High Volume Work Successfully

Swarfcast

33:34 min | 2 years ago

Swarfcast Ep. 52 Harry Eighmy of ATP on Running High Volume Work Successfully

"Hey everybody thank you for listening to swap cast before we start. We have a quick favourite. Ask you if you love the show. Please rated and write eight or review on your podcast app or tell somebody about it. It really makes a difference for us and we'd appreciate it okay on with the show typically newer equipment that is anywhere from a half a million to <hes> million and a half or two million dollars. You want to run that machine. You know minimum one hundred hours a week. This is suave of cast. I'm noah graph today. We're discussing how to run a profitable high volume machining business. Our guest is harry amy co owner and c._e._o. Oh of american turn products in erie pennsylvania harry and his brother scott believe it's important to invest heavily in high end turning equipment such as index multi spindles bengals and hydrogen transfer machines for large volumes. They also make sure to balance their high volume work with smaller jobs using c._n._c. swiss and turning centers today's podcast is brought to you by graph pinker looking for a screw machine rotary transfer machine or seeing seem sheen graph pinker guy covered word when you're buying any used machine. You're taking a risk so it's important to buy from someone who knows their stuff and who was going to give you straight information about what you're buying. Graf pinker is a family owned firm. That's been dedicated to selling great machine tools to the turnpike arts industry for seventy five years. It specializes in the top multi spindle brands including index shota gildemeister tore knows c._p._s. acme whitman they also sell a variety of other types of used equipment such as c. swiss c._n._c. Turning centers and parts washers machine tools are complicated. If you're going to buy one you should go to people who are knowledgeable and committed to the industry learn more at w._w._w. Dot graph pinker dot com that's w._w._w. Dot g. r. a. the f. f. p. i. n. k. e. r. t. dot com. We are thrilled to have harry very amy of american turn products in erie pennsylvania on the show. Today i've been asking harry to beyond the show for a little while gal and finally he has agreed to as one of <hes> our best customers <hes> often <hes> you know working working with him to sell equipment as well as <hes> buy equipment and <hes> just really happy to have you on the show. Thank you so oh okay. Let's let's just get started with the basics. What is american products a._t._p. What are you what are you guys focus on and then in <hes> gimme a little history of the company we've focused on primarily complex machining in and and we like higher volume machining <hes> that's kind of really where our sweet spot is now. I say ira volume. You know it could mean a component <unk> owning you know a lot of times we might ship anywhere from you know three hundred thousand pieces a week on something but we will also do the smaller volume volume stuff we do prototypes for people we recognize in <hes> in our business and in the <hes> the markets that we serve that it's important to be able to do a good job with prototypes because that's a lot of times how he ended up getting the high volume stuff interesting has the has the low volume stuff grown in recent times well the the low vote. We've always done some low volume stuff low-volume <unk> i think probably you know maybe that smallest order we might do might be one hundred pieces or or something like that but <hes> we do do smaller volume orders and <hes> you know again we we have the ability to do those prototypes if necessary to what would it be a prototype for four for an automotive <unk> it could be automotive it could be <hes> agricultural mining could be any of those particular chicken market so anytime that you want to get in a race at the starting line of a lot of the stuff that we do it that starts with the prototypes types and then it moves into a little bit bigger of an order in then you know once you get over those hurdles. The last couple of hurdles is getting getting that award awards for those higher volume orders i see so that is generally the way that the suppliers compete <hes> to get to get the work work right typically. It is yes now. You asked me a little bit of history on the <hes> on our business our company back in the nineteen fifties my grandfather a father who was harry amy started the business and it was a small company at that time no more than three to five. I people and what year what year are we talking. I'm thinking it was around the nineteen fifty four nineteen fifty five range and and <hes> and then my father went to work for his father. What kind of machines were running. They were running brown sharps at that time okay and a a- and then they moved into acting grizzlies <hes> you know both bar chucker machines and a variety of secondary operations. Who were they making parts for automotive as well now they weren't they were they were doing thing they hydraulic components for customers and primarily in the youngstown cleveland canaria in dan <hes> when my father came to work for his father. My dad was more visionary person he a really saw the need to expand into other markets and so i wanna say more of like the mid mid seventies he's <hes> we started doing some higher volume stuff for general electric home in laundry and then we moved into <hes> automotive parts arts for t._r._w. And you know that but any time that we we don't have typically a lot of customers but what we do a great job with once we get in and doing stewart for someone we expand with them and so we actually you know mine. You know we we mind with that. Particular customer almost like a mining type approach with them where we we started doing a lot of different things for and that was true then and it's true now the same by believe it is yeah. Does that make you nervous well. I say you know we don't have any particular customer customer or market that represents more than twenty five percent of what we do so we're not you know held hostage by anybody which is is a good thing yeah and you know you typically. When you get into those situations it can get very scary. You know it's always enticing to do do the larger volume high volume components but when you get into them than the really waited your business gets geared around that and then something bad happens with that and and i've seen it in our in our industry so but anyway <hes> back in the fifties sixties seventies eighties we were the known as the amy inc in nineteen eighty-four we started american turned products in erie pennsylvania and <hes> we closed the corporation down nineteen eighteen ninety two in also in that timeframe. We started a plant in el paso texas in nineteen ninety. I lived there for five years. There's a lot of motive what we did down in el paso. How old were you when you went to el. Paso i was twenty six twenty six <music> all right so a little you <hes> see you went to <hes>. Where did you go ohio state. I went to the ohio state university went. There came <hes> came back. When i went down to el paso in nineteen ninety the i came back to irie as our quality manager and in nineteen ninety nine and went to case western reserve in cleveland and got my m._b._a. A in your program which was very rewarding. Did you start the shop in el paso i did start to shop up el paso but we already had business and we already had the business to hold on davenport machines <hes> and so so i was recently married at the time and <hes> you know came home and told my <hes> my wife at the time. We hadn't been married gary yet but i told her i said we've got this opportunity. In el paso texas inc she goes oh great. I love how i said you know. I is a taoist is about a fourteen hour drive from el paso. It's a really big steak though anyway we we decided to do that in it was a very good decision. I grew so much from it but just even the startup of hiring people training the people putting the systems in place so so you you basically built it from the ground up. There really wasn't there wasn't anything there yet. There was nothing there wow nothing at that time we were doing elena seatbelt pens for seatbelt components today respectful shaft and we were shipping on the shafts roughly closed about four hundred thousand of them a week and <hes> we we're doing them for a variety of seatbelt manufacturers who had plans set up in <hes> in mexico and at that time they recall bikila dora's rose rather which is another term for twin plants so they would they would receive things in our customers would in the u._s. Ship up to their assembly plants assemble them into a seat belt system in ancient back dan <hes> the parts were heavy so that's they wanted a satellite plant a manufacturer in that location down there and there really wasn't any manufacturers meet a machining companies that could do we did down in el paso at that time so how did it had something like this happened. Was your father was talking to somebody and irritate your customers and then they said we do we need this and then then you guys put your heads together and you were like why don't we start a shop. Paso at that time <hes> our business with some of these players wasn't as big as what it would we would have wanted and <hes> we we're making these all on davenport multi spindle machines one of the fastest machines around it is it's quick and so <hes> i did a crash source on davenport's <hes> for about four to six months with the some of our folks up here we did it outstanding job training me and <hes> we went down there and we started with <hes> with two machines and we actually sold the business in two thousand six in at that time i think we had about thirty five davenport so we grew pretty rapidly over the period. Who did you sell it to. I i sold it. We sold the company to <hes> to john aby all right also former interviewee so what did it feel like as a twenty six year old going i mean you'd lived in ohio and pennsylvania all your life and <hes> going to texas to start shop all on your own. That must have been a bit scary. <hes> must have must have been really exciting. I think at at the time i was you know you're young and you're fresh out of college and everybody that you so you know is in college is is very hungry and that time i was hungry and i i was someone that didn't take no for an an answer then so you know there was a lot of long days and nights working on getting jobs to run into run right and working with people i i got very fortunate. We found some folks in el paso <hes> that had run davenport's arts believe it or not in some of these there was a small davenport shop in el paso that was not doing automotive and they decided to to come to work for us a couple love him and we started with two employees and then as we started to grow there was people that were running davenport's guys from el paso so that moved to los angeles that her that there was a you know what i would call a progressive davenport shop out pass and then they move back and they moved back intro. Were these <unk> most of the mexican. They were all hispanic. Okay some of the <hes> the folks that <hes> that we hired or are working for companies out in l._a. And they were p._m. Members which were very active in the precision machine parts association and and so we <hes> some work for member companies in <hes> alter manufacturing we hired. I think three or four guys from there air but again we have really fortunate. I was very fortunate. Were some great. People in the honda chemistry was there in the company was very successful. There okay so then. How many years were you down there <hes> while the plant was there for sixteen years i lived lived there for about five years. Okay listeners. Do you have an idea for a future episode of swath cast or is your company interested in advertising on the swerve cast podcast. If so please send us an email at swath cast podcast at g mail dot dot com that's swath cast podcast at g mail dot com and then what made you wanna move move back. You were just you were just tired of texas now. Actually <hes> i loved the area. <hes> you know the older i get i i i don't you know erie is <hes> is the snow belt capital of the world so i enjoy the the nice warm weather down there air but <hes> take a step back and looking at my future with our business in where things were going. The plant was setup his though it was a department down there so a lot of our sourcing decisions. Those type of things were being made. You know up in hearings so lazy to learn more about the business in a variety of everything that we do. I thought it was good for my development it to come back. I see okay and your brother. He also works in the business. So did he go into the business. Before you wake came into the the business i came into this a little bit earlier than what scott did but about the same time okay but he's older than you. Scott is three years older older than me and <hes> kiki is more on the sales side of things in the company and i'm more on the operation side of things and and what was it like working with your dad. I got to spend a little bit of time with him. Just a couple of times and i always thought he was really smart. <hes> then funding funding guy what was it like my dad was <hes> was the great visionary of the business and he was always always thinking ahead on things that that we should be doing and he wasn't afraid to try those things and <hes> you know from <hes> facilities to people development email being progressive being a leader in the industry he he was so involved with the p. M. p. a. n. D. relationships it that he made there and being able to collaborate with people in benchmark with people in the association was very important for him. You know a lot of times i would it. Be a saturday or sunday. I would call all my parents home and my mom would say while he's at work and i'd say oh i touch base with him and he would be spending all day going through do the p._m. P._a. benchmarking report that just came out today. It's an annual report man manner we in trouble come monday it anyway but he he was a very visionary guy was he. The one that took you guys out of the acme business away was in fact <hes> interesting story about that. I remember we held an auction in ohio at our we had a building there that was empty. When was this this was believe in about two thousand two and so we we were running at one time we add about thirty acnes and we had a variety of them. I mean we had nine sixteenths to a three quarter. <unk> core machines ancient five eight aglietta cheese. We add a two inch two and five eight tweet chuckers walkers. It might even been more thirty. I don't remember the exact up but for the where we were going in the markets that we were serving the machines couldn't do what with the technology was out there at that time and things we saw how things were evolving with you know index multi spindle machines shooters gildemeister euro turns etc so in the big deal with with the axes back then was getting parts. You know so i'm sure you can you can relate to this so thank thank god thank god that that's not our business getting parts for acmes another big piece of that is you know those machines were based on using to and even though you could serve drives drives on them and and try to do c._n._c. Things it was nowhere near what the technology is today or would. It was even back then so we my dad decided. We're going to get rid of all of our acquis. We're going to have it on. What did you and your brothers say. The way kinda scratched our head at it we were. We didn't know that was the right. I just saved. It seemed like sort of snap judgment. It wasn't kinda like gradual like i wanna say in fact two thousand three might i think it was more more of like in ninety seven ninety eight timeframe it oh this is going back twenty years ago but anyway <hes> we thought it was is a little bit snap judgment but in you know in it heavily your head already heavily capitalized organization as it is now. We're going to get rid of everything that's fully depreciated and we're gonna go out. We're going to have to spend more money so a lot of money. We decided to do the auction and and <hes> i remember the day of the arch and i could not attend it. I was actually down l. Paso at our plant down there and i remember getting a call from one of our employees employees who was a long-time acme setup maintenance guy who went to the office and he called me up and he went harry. Your dad just gave those machines away in. I wanna say game away. I think the lowest he got for the cheapest twenty so it was. I think for twenty five thousand dollars no your dad your your dad was shrewd to sell them then he probably. You probably got a hundred grand for some of them. Oh yeah in iran some that went even for more than that. I mean they were in very good condition so so you know if you would turn the clock back when we did that five years in advance people weren't getting you know five thousand for you couldn't couldn't give them away. They al so in hindsight we kind of thought at the time that we were doing the the sale of those in the auction action that it was a it was a terrible decision. We didn't get any money for him. That's what you scott thought. That's what we thought but at now that i look back on it. It was a very good decision asia and it just it. You know again going back to the asked me about him. You know he was quite the visionary guy he saw the future of the industry where you're going and made a tough decision that he was going to you know this is what he was gonna do and so that's that's what we did yeah which basically transformed everything so so then right after that did you you just called up vendex while at that time <hes> we were predominantly you know we add index machines but we also had shoot us euro turn gildemeister all multi spindle seniors. You already had that back then to we did yes shoots a p._c. <hes> thirty two machines and <hes> you know so we were kind of working with all those folks on who we we were gonna partner with long term and so we yeah we've always still kept the door open with all those folks <hes> but were pry. I primarily a <hes> an index multi spindle skirmishing company full c._n._c. Yeah and we run you know single spindle index machines so yeah so that brings us up to two now you know i obviously you have a respect for some of the other builders but <hes> urine index wchs place why why index well i think <hes> and it's not just index <hes> hydra matt is very very big supplier machine rushing tool owner would we are guidemap machines and <hes> and we also are a swiss machines tore no citizen <hes> but yeah you know all of those folks we want to be able to have our equipment service properly in north america and that's very important to us and and you know as you know machine tools have issues and you need to have someone close by that can help you and continue to work with your people training people now. We'll say we sent our people have been overseas to both index hydra matt and tornadoes and receive receive maintenance training program training set up training etc but still have a player in your backyard thin you know if you've ever been to some of their companies here in north america <hes> they're speaking as soon as you walk in you know if they can serve shared <hes> uh-huh and you've always it seems most the time you guys have had the philosophy of only buying new yeah now we by used equipment you know but we typically were when we get into doing a <hes> you know high volume program program and in a complex component doing it with older technology. That's not reliable can get you into into a world of hurt and you know when you're dancing with with some of the customers that we do you just wanna make sure you're going to do a great the job for brian. I mean what kind of job requires an index like. How much do maybe you can't tell me this. I don't know i like how much how much does a an index user have to get for a piece to to just finance machine like that you you know it. Just it depends a lot of times. What you can do is is you look at what your current book of businesses and maybe you've got a new component your your <hes> your clothing and <hes> you look at what the capacity of that of that asset could be by. Maybe maybe you run some of your current work on it and some of that new work and you wanna flow fully utilize machine typically newer equipment that is you know anywhere from half a million to a million and a half or two million dollars. If you wanna run that shaw minimum one hundred hours a week yeah right otherwise you're not going to get your money's worth it will get. We're not you know we've. We've noticed someone in the united states. I mean yeah obviously people are still buying multi spindles but it seems like sort of swiss <hes> uh-huh turning centers. This become more popular to some extent is it. Is it harder to get get the right. Multi spindle jobs <hes> for a u._s. Company than it was a few years ago. I mean you. You're buying some new indexes but you've also i a- you've you've bought some of the turning centers as well lately right correct you know typically you wanna invest in the multi spindle or the hydra matt with a higher volume complex component and a lot of times. When you take a step back you know some of those components can be made on either machine and he apps take another step back and say okay well which which one's going to be more parts at the end of the day and what is going to be able to hold these tolerances that we need to hold and typically with exotic materials so that's that's kind of how you your your decision now. We do service those markets where we add those mid range orders of you know. I've mentioned this earlier. Whether it's prototype type one hundred pieces you know two hundred and fifty five hundred thousand pieces you know those type orders you know were removed into multi axis swiss machine or a way i also like what kind of work are you have. Some see to hundreds what what kind kind of work would that be the index index laser that is that for the prototypes it can be <hes> you know it's it's more for those mid-range orders that we want to produce in you know another thing about those machines is typically. Were able to set them up. Anywhere from two hours did no more than eight to ten hours on a job and that's the beauty of long's it take to setup <hes> m._s. machine well. It depends upon what you're setting. You know what you were running and what you're going to you know typically. The multi spindle index machine at a minimum is is probably gonna be ten hours and you know there's some cases where we can do it faster again. It just depends upon what you're going to but if you get a semi mike complex part. You're probably ten fifteen hours setup time in hyder. Matt is totally different. The game when it comes to setups so you know certainly the index machines are much more flexible to hyderabad's are and do you think that you're going to smaller diameters now than larger ones or is it just kind of cyclical it l. We typically run the smallest diameters. We might runner. Maybe two hundred thousands of <hes> of an inch in diameter is the smallest we go to <hes> and we all the way up to maybe some in some cases up to three inches in diameter so it is is like kind of a wide range but go ahead is like under an inch inch is that are under twenty kilometers is that these days like what the most parts are done on or i think it's probably more hovers around that twenty to thirty to thirty two you know at thirty two millimeter machine is still very popular machine in our industry yeah right in that range. You can do a lot of stuff absolutely a few other questions. <hes> what what is your favorite thing about the machining business working in it and still always amazed about taking it you know piece of raw material real putting it in a machine in being able to have it make something so close collins in and to be able to to spend something out in five to ten seconds is always amazed and also just the collaboration aberration in the industry is phenomenal. <hes> you know it's interesting it so exciting to get up come to work every day. It's very energizing ising <unk>. You're you're very lucky i am. I'm very fortunate. Absolutely what are you. What are you most trying to and to improve upon both professionally with the company personally well. I think with our organization we always have to have that vision of where we're going and <hes> you know strategically. Were we added the female from here. That's always gotta be out there. You know we always got to keep an eye of overdoing and where we're going and you know something. That's ultra important in this business. Who oh you do the work for you know there's always i've always heard so many horror stories about. You know who you're doing your work for so. I think that's very very important to us. Having that strategic plan in personally <hes> you know my philosophy is is getting people around me the tools that they need to be effective in their jobs which as a result is gonna make our company great <hes> enact does from training to good machine tools to good facilities <hes> all those things and then have you been able to find good people easily. You know it's it's always a challenge you know. Is it hard to find people in erie pennsylvania sure. It's hard to find people wherever you're going sure sure sure in north america. I mean especially in this business. <hes> you know there's things that we're doing <hes> with <hes> <hes> collaborating with other manufacturers in training people the basic things blueprint reading you know the gauge metrology to you know basic machining skills so were for doing those things <hes> and there's a potential for a community college which we don't have one here neary county were a lot of other locations do so you know that's let's say a negative but an opportunity for improvement for erie county fantastic. Thank you so much okay now. Thank you have a good day <music> breath.

el paso erie pennsylvania harry amy scott ohio north america Paso el paso texas davenport texas Graf pinker ohio state university amy inc youngstown cleveland stewart erie gary united states
Blair Enns  Pricing Creativity Applied to Products

Impact Pricing

36:32 min | 2 years ago

Blair Enns Pricing Creativity Applied to Products

"I cannot think of a more valuable skill in all of business than the ability to conduct a value conversation which is essentially find out what the client or the customer want and what they would be willing to pay if you could help create that value closures on established my proposal sent in principle now. Let's see much goes Forni <music> welcome to impact pricing the podcast where we discussed pricing value and the hopefully very tight relationship between the two. I'm mark styling today. Our guest is Blair ends. Here are three things you wanted about Blair before we start I he wrote a true bestseller called the win without pitching manifesto second. He priced his newest book pricing Creativity Ativity a guide to pricing beyond the billable hour in an amazing way and we'll talk about that towards the end of our conversation today I hope and third he got his start the way most of US pricing experts do he has a master's degree in and marine biology and underwater welding welcome Blair. Thank you mark those first. Two points were true. The last one is not that's you pull that from my linked in profile and everybody falls for that <hes> oh no it's not true. It's not true at all if you look at the university the University of Dogar land and dog or land is the part of the world in the English Channel kind of going up towards the North Sea that when when a lot of the <music> ocean's waters are tied up in polar ice caps then that becomes farmland and that is known as dog land so I did my twenty three and me a few years ago and one of the things I learned as I hail from dog Orland headed look up where dog land and was and I immediately had this idea for selling dog Elon University T. shirts and I thought well if somebody attended the University of dog Orland what would they study they would study marine biology and perhaps underwater welding okay. I feel horrible. PODCAST is now over the person to fall for it or to introduce me that way ahead of a speech or podcast. That's great. That is great okay so let's find out seriously. How did you get get into pricing? I came at it through the sales world. You can come at it through the academic world you can come at it through probably the world of economics I came at through the sales world because I think selling pricing racing and negotiating are inextricably entwined and for you to be good at one. You have to be good at the others yeah. I think that's absolutely true now. Can you tell our audience what you actually do. Besides aside sitting on the beach cashing checks your best selling book and you know what do you. What do you really do yeah? I'm the founder and C._E._O.. Of A training company called win without pitching we do sales training for creative professionals so that is folks folks in the advertising and design professions typically and also some kind of adjacent professions or industries and so from the name of the business you can kind of infer my point of view on how selling should be done in the creative in the creative field secretive professions as I like to call them the way creative services are typically sold is they're giving away for free. You're invited to solve the client's problem as proof of your ability to solve their problem so I hi and my team we d program creative professional's of the need to give their thinking away for free as part of the sale then after doing that long enough I kind of stumbled into the pricing challenges that go along with selling anything. It seems to me that you say you do sales training but it seems to me like it really takes a business transformation to do what it is that you want companies to do. I think so and sales training thing isn't the right word the word sales isn't we. It's not even used in the markets that I serve. We don't use the S. Word it's referred to as business development or new business development and that's kind of code for sales and Marketing and networking working all of the things that you would do to kind of try dr a transaction or a new engagement so I embraced that word in part because nobody else uses it and I'm aware that it costs us. If I send an email with the S. word in the subject line fine the open rate plummets so I won't I've learned not to use it in the subject line but then I'll use it in the body of the email because I really believe in telling it like it is and I think a lot of folks in the crater profession. Maybe see themselves as marketers I they really recoil from that word of selling because they think selling is the active talking people into things and I fundamentally believe that's not what selling is at all so I'm. I'm kind of here to take back that work. I agree completely with that. Let's talk about what a creative firm is for second because what I'd like to go to do as generalize this more to my audience and my audience tends to be people who work for high tech companies software companies product people and and so if you were to say give us some examples of what you would think of as creative companies yes so in advertising agency company that's hired by a large brand like Nike or Ford Motor Company et Cetera to run ads on their behalf or for a design firm and I would say most of our clients are kind of in the design sector so you think of typical graphic design designing logos identities posters back in the day and over the last decade or so that has been increasingly digital. It'll you get to a digital design firm. That world is intersecting with technology and with consulting so there's a real hybrid. There's a lot of tech technology shops in our client base there some pure tech firms there are some pure consulting firms. There are some pure design firms. We even work with management consultancies. You know so I said we do sales training for creative professionals. That's really that's me stating our discipline and our market market in in the narrowest possible terms but I think you were kind of implying where leading to this that that's actually much narrower than what we really do we in addition to sales training. We do training on pricing. We do training on negotiating we do I._p.. Development we do some marketing work as well. If you look at our client base you would see consulting companies. He would see staffing companies. You'd see some accounting practices so I often say that the target should should be smaller than the market so you aim for the target and you're happy to hit the market so you carve out a narrow value proposition we do x for Y and then those in the adjacent cities who had who require adjacent disciplines the plans or are in adjacent markets may be attracted to you and ask hey do you would that be relevant us or do you also do these things and if you lead with everything that you do and everybody you do it for then you're just a in our case we would just be a training company trade on everybody you on everything so you really need to put a stake ground and I talked about this talked about this. In the first chapter of my first book we will specialize in the win without pitching manifesto. You really need to put a stake in the ground and the mistake that people make is that stake where that claim of expertise is too broad in terms of both the discipline on the market it should be narrow enough in a way that allows you to be compelling and meaningfully different and then you just accept the fact that you're probably going to do business outside of those narrow parameters. I am now standing and applauding because that was such an amazing answer everybody who's listening to this just rewind and listen to that again because here's what Blair just told us and and I have this conversation with so many different people. Can you focus what it is that you're going to market at. Can you focus what you're going to target and then if someone else comes in and says hey can you help me. You're allowed to say yes. It's okay but when then we can focus it gives us the ability to find the people we want. We build a level of expertise and people trust us more so I have those just an amazing answer. Thank you as a thank you for being a role model thank you it's you know I've been spouting these words for years and and as my business has grown I've been tempted many times to broaden out my business and a lot of people look at my first book the Win Without Pitching Manifesto which is graciously pointed out. It's still selling very well. We've just past thirty thousand copies and the annual sales volume has is increased every year over the last five years. It's been out for nine years so it's just building momentum and so people read this book and go you know the thinking in this book applies to not just creative services but all professional services services and many other businesses well you should rewrite this book for a broader audience and you should broaden out your practice for to a broader audience and as soon as I do that I kind of I watered down what makes it different. I invite vast vast hordes of competitors and when I start to compete against these other direct competitors I'm left with nothing that makes me kind of meaningfully different now. When I'm selling our core services to our core our target market I'm in a real position of strength and if people outside of those markets see relevance in what we do and they wanNA THEY WANNA hire us for training and coaching to we're open to having those conversations? I love that whole concept. Let's it's actually jump into talking about pricing a little bit and I'm going to give you the wide open softball question for you okay. What do you think is the most important lesson for creative firms if you are going to say this is the thing that you really need to get from what I can teach you? I would say if I could combine two things you've probably been systematically underpricing for a very long period of time point number one point number two the reasons are all in your head. Oh so I point number. One seems obvious to me because I run into so many people who don't Solo preneurs don't have the confidence other people are thinking. I can't leave that money on the table. I'm going to lose all this business. My competitors are competing on price but point number two. I'm fascinated about what's what's going on inside my head well. Is You know mark. There's anybody who works in the field of pricing. We like to have the conversation about. Is it art or science just pricing Ah do you what do you think do you think it's more do you think it's more science and my answer to that. Question is when you're pricing products and productized services a business that is built for scale pricing is mostly science dance and when you're pricing services customized services so my clients almost exclusively not entirely but almost entirely fall into the category of customized services and when you're a customer service service means you have a small number of clients at any one time every engagement should be a creative act every pricing or compensation plan every proposal should be a creative act so when you fall into that category customized services pricing is mostly art and the art is you have to understand some of the basic underpinnings in you don't even have to understand the science you have to understand some of the principles you know the subjectivity of value. To some of the ideas around anchoring and the power of options etc things that you would talk about regularly on the show you have to understand some of those basics but after that it's really just a sense of are you worth at. Can you help this client create create value and if you can help this client create the value that you've uncovered then your idea of fair compensation for yourself really needs to transcend the idea of your inputs or how long it's taken you to to to help create that value all of us that are in the world of pricing we use the words value based pricing a lot. Most people don't understand what we mean when we say that they just think that means all its charge a little bit more or something but in your your field. You're really teaching people how to figure out what that value is. If I'M GONNA go engage with this client. How much value can I deliver to that client and then can? I get some portion of that value. How do you do that yeah and again speaking king of the customer services firms I would put practice different because you know productized services firm? You're doing all the segmentation analysis and you're trying to figure out what groups value in a customized services business values entirely subjective. You cannot sit there and make a judgment of what the client values you have to get the client to tell you and this is why selling in pricing when it comes to customize services cannot be you cannot decouple these two things because you cannot be an effective priceor uh of customized services if you're not an effective salesperson and what I mean by that is somebody who's able to skillfully navigate a real proper two way conversation and at the heart of uncovering value is as as you know. Is this idea of the value conversation. You have to be able to have a good value conversation which I think I think the ability to to master of the value conversation is without exception. This is going to sound like an overstatement but truly believe this. I believe the ability to master the value conversation is the most valuable skill in all of business full stop. I cannot think of a more valuable skill in all of business than the ability to conduct a value. Oh you conversation which is essentially find out what the client or the customer wants how much value might be created and what they would be willing to pay. If you could help create that value there are so many things I want to bring up talk about now. I think that statement the full stop is spot on correct and yet so many people are clueless. Yes what I find. Fascinating is go to any company any business and ask them how much value creating how much do your customers via your product. They don't even know how to go about answering the question. Let let alone knowing about how to go find out the answer so it is just such a powerful concept and and it's the longest chapter in my book pricing creativity a guide to profit beyond the billable hour and it's the chapter I spent the most time on and I felt like I'm really going to kind of earn my money in this chapter and I look back at the chapter and I think okay. It's been out eighteen months or so. I think I'm pretty proud of it but what I say to all the audiences that I've spoken to since then is you're not going to learn this from reading it in a book. It's simple. It's a simple four step framework in most people's methodologies. It's a three three step framework identify the objectives or what the client wants identified the K._p._i.'s what are the measures of success identify the value that might be created and I had a four step set pricing guidance find out from the client what they would be willing to pay a broad range. That's that's it. It's really that simple. That's it's a simple framework but it's not easy to learn to do in the reason it's not easy is because almost everybody that I'm talking to and training. They are subject matter our experts and most people listening to this podcast would be a subject matter expert in something and as a subject matter expert you see patterns everywhere so you begin the value conversation by asking the client would is it that they want to be true in future and there's all kinds of nuance of but how you might handle these steps and I have my ways of doing it but you uncover what it is that the client wants to be true in the future and you get them talking about what they want and as soon as the client starts to talk you see the patterns and and you jump ahead immediately as subject matter expert you go. I've seen this before. I know what your problem is. I know what the solution is. I know what we typically charged for the solution so the hard thing the reason why this is such a difficult skill to master. Is You have to learn to let go of one form of expertise in that is subject matter expertise in this moment and you have to embrace this blank slate blank mind if the beginner replace subject matter expertise with process expertise and that's Canadian process expertise. We're in the process is the simple four step methodology where you the difficult thing to do is to quit thinking about what you would do. Quick thinking about solutions <unk> solutions quick thinking about price you want to get through the entire value conversation where the end of it you've set some pricing guidance you've you've uncovered from the client and you haven't thought deeply about solutions and you haven't brought your own ideas of price to the table. So that's the goal you get through that conversation and it's all about the client all about what they want all about what you will measure all about the value you might create for them or that. They're looking to be created and then even and what they would pay for that and you should get to the end of that conversation not having thought about solutions at all and that is the difficult thing to do and when you can overcome that hurdle man your world will change you truly will learn to master the value conversation. Station after a few dozen of these things get very good at it. Your world will change. How's The podcast going? Are you getting value research shows. The people don't really value what they get for free but I'm hoping you'll prove who've this research wrong. Please demonstrate to us and the entire world that you value this podcast. Would you please pause the podcast subscribe. If you haven't already done so rate the podcast and leave us a short review. You'd be doing a huge favor and research shows. If you invest this little bit of time. You'll probably like the podcast even more win win. Pause do it now will wait for you and so what I just heard you say is it doesn't matter what the solution is. It doesn't matter if we can solve the problem or not. The only thing that matters is that you have a problem and this is how much you would pay me if you could solve it. Yes and I see I talk about the four conversations in the sale. It's kind of our overarching model of how we think about the sale you think of the sale is just four conversation so the probative conversation ideally happens without Oh without you present through your agents of thought leadership and referrals and that's where you move from vendor expert the mind of the client then we have the qualifying conversation which you think of as a typical sales conversation. You're you're vetting the lead to see if there's an opportunity. Here's the really something here. Is there match between what the client needs and what we might do the third conversation is the value conversation where the goal is to uncover the value that you might create and then the fourth conversation is the closing conversation just like sounds you transition from the sale to the engagement so when you get to the end of the value conversation you're three quarters of the way through the sale and you should get to the end of that conversation without thinking about solutions and then I believe especially in a large customize engagement. There should be a gap between the value conversation in the closing conversation where you say okay. This has been a great conversation. I have all of these notes on what it is that you want what the K._p._i.'s of success are how much value we might create and the price range that you're willing to kind of invest in in possible solutions now. I'm going to go away and if you have a team I'm going to go and meet with my team and we're going to brainstorm on different ways that we can help you create this value. You deliver what you want hit. These metrics create this value and I'll come back with a few different ways that we can work together and if the client tries to pin you down solutions then in that in that moment in the middle of the value conversation or at the end of it you just don't go there. I I don't know part like part of how I work is in this moment. I don't want to think about what I what what I would do. I want to be solely focused on you and what you want. I WanNa take this information and then I wanna I wanNA give myself the freedom to think big AAC inexpensively about the many different ways that we can help you create this value and I'll come back with different ways that we can work together and some of those options from those different ways that we might work together. They might be radically different and I don't even know what they are yet. So that's is the place you want to get to three quarters of the way through the sale and you haven't thought deeply about solutions. That's scary sounds really scary. Actually why is that it feels like I have a product that I wanNA sell. I know what it is. I'm trying to sell and now here it is you're asking me to go out and just listen for problems. Just get the value and not yet at least know so. Am I gonNA be able to solve the problem. Is this in my bailiwick. Although you did kind of cover that in the qualification face yes and again making the distinction between customized services firms and productized services or product companies is where it's at scale as soon as you start talking. I have to match your challenge to the suite of products or services that I have available and I could probably put them together right at the end of that. Call right in the end of that conversation and and give you some options there because it's all fairly you know it's the pricing is standardized the delivery standardize and it's built that way for reasons of scale in a customized services firm again every engagement should be a creative act every compensation plan and proposal should be creative and so by thinking about trying to match solutions in the moment you really are going to limit yourself and we've all been in situations as buyers. If you're old enough where you've had a conversation with a potential the vendor or salesperson about helping you and your you're still describing the problem and they're nodding their head going yeah we can do. We can help you. We can help you and it's not a very good feeling as a buyer and we experienced that a lot and what's happening is as the salesperson is he's jumping ahead. Oh I've seen this before I can. You don't need to talk anymore. I know what all the patterns are and whether they're right or not. We don't feel like we're being heard. We don't have the sense of trust in that person. If you think of the value conversation conversation as I described it those four steps where you're not thinking about solutions just imagine what it feels like to be on the end of that conversation it feels like there's a person sitting across the table from you and they are focused completely on you who and what you are saying and what you want and what you want to be true and they're not interrupting you to tell you a story of Oh yeah. We did that for so and so we've got this pro. You'RE GONNA love this product. They're not thinking about what they're going to say next. They're not trying to sell you something. They're just completely wheatley focused on you and I like to say we all have a person like this in our personal lives right and I think a friend of mine when I tell the story I always think of her. I don't see her very often but at the end of every exchange I always think oh my God. I love her so much. She's so wonderful and then I'll say to my wife. Hey I ran into our friend and she'll say oh. How is she and I'll say she's I don't know how she is because she did it to me again and what she did in the brief exchanges that we have every few years or so? She's just completely focused on me how're you. How is the Family House the business have you been anywhere interesting lately and I feel like these are great conversations and had this incredible warmth and love for her but but she never reveals any? She's not telling me anything about herself and because our interactions are so short they're one sided. They don't feel that way. I feel like Oh my God. This is this person understands me so you take that take that skill that my a friend has and you transpose it into a business context that is the most valuable skill in all of business and the goal of value based pricing isn't to charge more. That's just a delightful consequence. The goal of value based pricing thing is to create an organization filled with people like that who are laser focused on the client and how they can help create value for the client you do that everything changes your organization organization will be unrecognizable if you could wave the magic wand and have every client facing person build that skill to mastery level overnight you would not recognize your business in three years and the reason you wouldn't is when these people start to come back back to the mother ship with the debrief of value conversation and you start brainstorming on how you can help. You're going to come up with things that you've never dreamt of before you're gonNA come back with budgets that are multiples of the largest budget that you've ever had before and you're going to have to get creative with how you would spend this money to help deliver this value and it's going to stretch the boundaries of your business model you will you will not recognize your business in three years. Now it's almost impossible the wave the magic wand rounded build these skills to mastery level overnight it takes time and it takes not just practice but guided practice because people listening to this podcast are thinking. Oh Yeah Yeah I get it. I can do this. I can learn to let go man. It's unless unless you have somebody kind of coaching watching unless you're going in with a buddy whose job is to watch you and to debrief with you afterwards. It's really hard to break the old habits I can. I can see that completely can and I ask you to <hes> I'm going to stress your boundaries just a little bit. If I may yeah and I want to ask if we there's two ways that I apply value conversations in the product world and I would love your critique feedback thoughts on what we do. One is if I'm talking to a sales team it is we have a product. We're not going to customize the product for them but if we have the value conversation absent thinking about the product I what we're doing is understanding the value oh you that our client has and then we can talk about what is it that our product is going to do for them and how they can help how we can help them. Does that seem right or would you change that. I think you're even if you're selling. Let's say you're working for a product company inning. You just have one product I think you're still better off having the value conversation and really putting yourself in the client's shoes and then having an honest conversation about where the value that they're seeking the value oh you the product delivers where it aligns and dozen align and I think you just you're gonNA build credibility by having that value conversation and then more credibility by being forthright about here's where you hear the things that you identified right and here's where I'm confident we're going to deliver that value and here's where in full disclosure. You're going to have to find ways to get the value met elsewhere. You're just GonNa have to accept that. You're not gonna get everything that you're looking for here. There's I mentioned the four conversations and the PROB- conversation in the conversation we're looking. It's where you prove your expertise and move from vendex part and the moment in time when that happens we call that the flip the moment when you go from vendor to expert in the mind of the client and and if if that hasn't happened by ideally it happens before the first exchange but it might not it. Maybe it'll happen in the qualifying conversation but maybe you got through the qualifying conversation and you're still treated like a vendor when you get through the end of a good value conversation conversation. It's likely that the flip has happened and the shields go down. You're no longer seen as just another vendor. You're seen as an expert practitioner so I think even if you just have one product to sell it's not a bad the thing to have the value conversation and then just at the end of that value conversation don't retreat like a suggested at the end of that value conversation do an honest kind of appraisal of where your product delivers on the client's needs when and where it doesn't excellent now every product manager who's listening is saying to themselves boy. I sure wish my sales people would go sell like that and now I'm going to put it back on the product people because we have to figure out what are the right segments to go. After what are the right products to build. How do we tweak our products and other right offers for the right segments and the only way we do that is by having value conversations with lots of potential buyers in customers so we can understand their value any advice for our product managers who are listening? I think that's a great insight and essentially you're saying use the value conversation to get that deep customer feedback on what what it is that they want so if you if you're keeping score at home and you're keeping track and you're you're coming back to. Let's say you're the product manager and you've got these sales. People coming back and debriefing the value conversation. You're seeing a repeated theme here. People are looking for this. Type of value in our product deliver it. That's an invitation for you to go there in the future and I would also say that you know there are a lot of product companies and productized services companies like ours ours productized services companies training company we we have various products or products and services that we can match to a specific situation so we don't sell everybody the same thing we have value conversation and then we try to you know we take the items that are essentially on our shelf and our stock and we customize the combination of those things to the client so if you're if you've got a portfolio of products or services than that's the approach that you would take your initial point that this is a great of a market feedback mechanism. I think that's great insight so just to be to be open. I wasn't thinking about product listening to sales people coming back. I was thinking about product people going out and having value conversations yeah but I I loved what you said too because if the sales team really is having conversations they're suddenly bringing back information. That's truly valuable to the product team yeah and I could see I mean again. I think it's the most valuable skill in all all of business and I've given you an example of how it's valuable in a personal context too. I don't when we do training for say. An AD agency were asked. How many people should you have in the room and the answer is like as many as you can free up for the day because it's a valuable skill to have even if you're not on the frontlines everyday awesome okay? I WanNa talk all day long but we are GonNa have to shut this down here. Just a minute I mentioned your new book briefly and I and I'm fascinated fascinated. When I first saw the price of your book I was shocked and I smiled and I loved Crisis Zoe? This book is priced. It may be the first pricing book in the World Price based on the principles and the book. Yes sir well so go ahead and tell us why you price it the way you did. If you don't mind yeah one of our company values that win without pitching his do as we say do what we say so what that means is we we sell the way that we advocate that others should sell and and when people are in conversations with us about training or coaching we use the principles that we teach in that we advocate and it's you know if we're as I was writing the book actually in the very early stages of thinking we'll go to a publisher shirt or a self publish. I thought well no I want to control the pricing and you know selfishly. Another reason is any book on pricing you go by book on pricing if you're a small business owner or if you're somebody who has authority to set price the value of that book is immense it makes a mockery of the price that you pay for the book I went to my first book which was self published. I charge a thousand dollars a copy for it and I just I realized I you know if you feel like something is valuable. Don't be bound by the constraints of the package and there's this thing around books that we think books are priced at a certain should be priced at a certain price point now having sold a book at a thousand or nine hundred ninety five dollars a copy previously I knew there was a market for this so I decided I was going to embrace what I talked about in the book so options a high anchor and some other things that don't talk in the book. I know you're very learned in the area of price endings so one of the middle option has a charm price and the anger prices three hundred twenty dollars. The middle option is one ninety nine and the cheap option is one hundred dollars so it's one hundred for an e book when when ninety nine for the book and Manual and three twenty for the book manual and a series of five videos most expensive e book I ever bought yeah and I look at that as well absolutely compared to what ninety nine or three twenty it's cheap and I think the thing that you you rightly I point out is the content in the book is amazingly. Valuable and people should get value a lot of authors myself included when we write our books we write the first one because we're trying to build a brand as opposed to trying to make money so hey free is okay. Okay all right. Let's let's get it out there but people know so my next book might be one hundred bucks and I used to play when I was thinking of this book. I was driving my kids to soccer games or hockey games than I would play this game all right. Let's how do you how do you earn a million dollars from a book and well you could sell my kids. You could sell a million copies at a dollar and then somebody would say well you could sell one copy for a million dollars and it just this really interesting creative exercise of how do you get to that number and there's just so many different ways to do it. All right. I end every session with the same question Blair so you probably have heard it already but what's one piece of pricing advice that you'd give our listeners that you think would have a big impact impact on their business and they can be something we've already talked about. If you want yeah I would say I'm going to sneak two answers into my answer options with a high inker just if you just always put forward options three options and lead with the most expensive one year average settled price will go up. I promise you Nice Nice all right Blair. Thank you so much for your time today if anybody wants to contact you how can they do that. Thanks mark. It's been my pleasure. You can reach me at win without pitching dot com you can reach the book find the bike book at Pricing Creativity Dot Com and I'm at Blair ends on twitter and linked in a right and Blair ends will be spelled obviously in the show notes even the show title Episode Twenty Seven One of our best at the same. My favorite part was watching. I have video so I could actually watch Blair. You're was watching Blair. Get excited when he talks about value conversations. It was amazing. So what was your favorite part. Let us know in the comments or wherever you downloaded and listened to the podcast and while you're there. Would you please give us a five.

Blair sales training product manager US K._p._i. North Sea founder Elon University softball University of Dogar sales and Marketing and networ University of dog Orland business owner professional services soccer twitter Nike Family House
Order of the Nine Angles Pt. 1

Secret Societies

43:22 min | 10 months ago

Order of the Nine Angles Pt. 1

"Due to the graphic nature of this secret societies rituals listener discretion is advised. This episode contains descriptions of Murder Abuse Racist Ideology and sexual acts that some people may find offensive. We advise extreme caution for children under thirteen something else to note all of the groups covered on this show operate in secret the details included in this episode are based on extensive research, but ultimately can never be one hundred percent verified except by society members themselves. In. Two thousand one journalist Nick Lulls walked into a pub in Shropshire. England, he was there to meet David Miot one of the country's most notorious neo Nazis. Looking around the pub lows spotted miot in a corner booth. It look more like a college professor than an armed right wing extremist he had a thick. Beard and wore John Lennon. Beneath a tweed newsboy cap. Without hesitation laws walked to my it's booth and sat down across from him. He had only one thing on his agenda for the meeting to get my it to admit that he was Anton. Long the mysterious leader of the satanist group, the order of nine angles however, despite lulls best efforts might adamantly denied it claiming he had no direct association with the Satanic Group. Finally, the journalists gathered his things to leave. But just as he stood up. It slid an envelope across the table. It had lows name typed across the front curious lows back down and opened it. Inside was a sheet of cream-colored stationery bearing a neatly typed note, the letter accused Lulls of spreading lies and at the very end miot challenged him to a duel. lulls looked up in shock to see that my it had opened his jacket inside was a silver dagger embossed with the insignia of the Nazi ss then. Leaned in and said in a quiet voice, I've been involved in two previous duels and one them both. Hi I'm Vanessa Richardson. I'm Greg Poulsen, and this is secret societies of spotify original from podcast. Every Thursday. We examine history's most exclusive organizations from around the world and try to shine a light on these mysterious groups from the aluminum to the order of nine angles will explore how much impact each secret society actually had on the world around them. This is our first episode on the order of Nine Angles a prominent occult group based in the United Kingdom Mixing Traditional Satanism with Neo, nazism and witchcraft. The group is rumored to have outposts in Europe North America and other continents. This week will look at the origins of the order of nine angles and explore their bizarre beliefs and practices will also investigate their leader a mysterious Anton Long. Next. Week will delve into the organizations legacy around the world will discuss some of the group's members who have been accused of planning terrorist activities and committing murders. Finally, we'll look at how the group has reinvented itself in the age of social media. We have all that and more coming up stay with us. The order of nine angles also called the Owen. A was founded in the nineteen sixties when three neo pagan covens combined in England. Little is known about these groups except that their members worshipped a malevolent goddess and answered to an enigmatic grand mistress. Then at some point in the early seventies, this mysterious woman left the area and moved to Australia paving the way for a new leader to emerge. However many the story surrounding these early days of the Owen a have the ring of mythology. In truth, it's possible. Maybe even likely that the grand mistress and her covens never existed as many sources don't even mention her. Instead researchers suggest that a man known as Anton Long may have actually started the order of nine angles. Some sources state that long fathered a child with the grand mistress of the order before she decamped to. Australia. Whether long founded the O A or was simply an early member by the nineteen seventies heat emerged as the group's leader. Unfortunately, that's where specific details about long Peter out is exact identity remains unknown. Some people believe that long was simply a pseudonym that was used by various Owen a leaders over the years. Others assert that he was the alter ego of well-known British Neo Nazi and occultist David Miot. Miot has steadfastly denied being Anton long even to the point of threatening violence but an analysis of his philosophy and an understanding of his history has led many academics to conclude that long and my it are one in the same for the purposes of this episode will assume that they're right. David Maya was born in one, thousand, nine, hundred fifty and grew up in the Modern Day African nation of Tanzania where his father was a civil servant. Miami also spent part of his Childhood in Singapore there he studied mysticism and martial arts in addition to these varied subjects might loved history especially stories about ancient Sparta. He liked learning about the civilizations, warriors and their regimented disciplined lives coming of age during the early years of manned spaceflight might also developed an interest in physics and astronomy. He came to believe that humanity's destiny lay in colonizing the stars. By his teenage years, Miot had begun to mix all of his various interests together. If there was any hope for humanity to establish the Galactic Empire he dreamed of, he believed that people had to return to the noble austere lifestyle of warriors like the ancient spartans he admired in other words, Miot thought that human beings needed to evolve beyond their present status as pampered weaklings. My, it wasn't done adding to his diverse brew of influences either in nineteen sixty seven, he travelled to England to finish his schooling. Their Maya developed an interest in Alchemy the occult finding them compatible with his ideas about strengthening human consciousness. In pursuit of this Maya join several secret groups that practiced ritual magic hoping this would teach him how to summon demons and other dark forces. It was during this time that might discover the writings of the nineteenth century German philosopher Friedrich. Nietzsche. Nietzsche was well known for his theory of the Uber Mench a superhuman state that he believed all people should aspire to among other things Nietzsche talk that an Uber Manche would move beyond the need for religion by finding meaning in the everyday world. In the nineteen thirties, his ideas were co opted by the Nazi party in Germany as a model for the ideal. Arianne. This racist interpretation of Nietzsche's Uber Mench drew my its interest the most. In nineteen, sixty nine, he witnessed a street fight between skinheads and left-wing protesters watching the violence play out my it immediately felt an affinity with the skinheads viewing them as Noble Nici and warriors fighting against powerful establishment enemies. Inspired Maya joined to Neo Nazi crew called the British Movement of this club. He would later state to me Adolf Hitler and his movement seemed to embody some of the ideals I believed. Magic should achieve. They seem to represent a satanic spirit in urge to conquer. Perhaps, in pursuit of this urge to conquer, it became more politically involved in the early seventies. He wrote treatises attended protests and gave political speeches on behalf of the British movement, and then for his own far right hate group the National Democratic Freedom Movement in addition he continued his exploration of Magic and the occult according to some scholars. This is how miot I stumbled across the order of nine angles. According to its own legends the Owen emerged in an area of western England, known as the Welsh marches in the prehistoric past it was populated by native Britons whose ancestors came to England during the Ice Age. In the intervening Millennia, however, several tribes carved out their own territories and set up altars to worship there many disparate God's. One of these deities was a violent and sinister goddess after Christianity began to replace the ancient pagan religions of the native Britons. A members believed that worship of this unnamed deity continued in secret with devotees passing her rituals down through the generations at some point in these years, the order of nine angles allegedly sprang out of this tradition. In nineteen seventy-three Miot met the woman who is leading Owen A and was initiated into the group soon, after might was writing for the order under the pseudonym Anton. Long. He might have chosen this monitor because of its similarity to the name of the most infamous satanist in the World Anton Louet. Anton Levay was an American who headed the Church of Satan his organization regarded the devil as a metaphor for anti-establishment behaviour as an atheist he dismissed theism all forms as well as any sort of afterlife instead levay promoted. Satanism. As a form of rational thought that focused on improving the self. However love as brand of satanism would soon take on more sinister associations in the wake of the nineteen sixty-nine Manson family murders many associated the violence with the Church of Satan Jay sebring who was killed alongside Sharon tate was said to have been a member of the group and one of the Manson family killers Susan Atkins had participated in a theatrical ritual with Llovei though Levine himself never claimed to be connected to the grisly murders. Outsiders found it easy to believe that his black magic infused religion inspired them. It's no surprise. Then that everyday people found Levin distressing my on the other hand seemed to find him both mainstream and shallow. He didn't accept the Bays metaphorical conception of Satanism, and he was dissatisfied with the other occult groups he had found. According to historian, Nicholas Good Rick Clark Miot was looking for something more exciting, dangerous, and truly evil. My also likely rejected LE`veon's brand of satanism because Levine was ethnically Jewish. Since my it was a neo Nazi, he would have naturally dismissed the group Levin founded as a Jewish absurdity. Then in his alter ego as Anton long might set about creating an alternative in his group Satan be some sort of metaphorical simple they would. Worship the dark lord as a Deity Miot believe that this would allow them to tap into the evil forces that promoted individual growth and strength. As the leader of the order of nine angles might also established a set of doctrines and training regiments for new recruits. He developed rituals, unpublished news books and pamphlets to draw in converts. It's unclear if he had success expanding the group's membership, some sources suggests that the order consisted mainly of Maya ten a few dedicated disciples until the nineteen nineties. Owen as magazines in the eighties and nineties had several hundred readers. Others argue that my it oversaw the establishment of several Owen, a temples throughout England during this period. What is certain however is that during these years, the Owen a functioned as the esoteric wing at the broader Neo Nazi movement in England. Miot knew that some people who were tracked into Magic and the occult were also sympathetic to radical political philosophies. So he likely used the Owen A to indoctrinate followers with his neo Nazi worldview. To that end much of the Owen as early literature and rituals centered around not system and the sanctification of out of Hitler. Wants a church service might devised called. The massive heresy even included an alter that contained swastikas a photograph of Hitler and a copy of his book Mein Calm. During the ceremony adherence chanted, we believe Adolf Hitler was sent by our Gods to guide us to greatness we believe in the inequality of the races and in the rights of the Arians to live according to the laws of the folk. This was only the beginning in combining Neo Nazi precepts with Satanism Maya created a religion of such evil that it went beyond the bizarre into the outright criminal. Coming up will witness the ONA's terrifying ceremony of recalling. Listeners I have a surprising new trick for you. You know you can find love and a bar or on an APP why not a podcast in blind dating the new spotify original from podcast we're expanding the places you can meet your match with a twist he'll never see coming. Every Wednesday youtuber and host Terry Michelle introduces one hopeful single to two strangers in a voice only call. Through a series of illuminating games in questions the trio finds all the sweet this and awkwardness of for state minus the distraction of appearances. But once are hopeful single chooses their match. The cameras are turned on and it's either butterflies or goodbye. Blind dating airs weekly with new episodes every Wednesday you can find and follow blind dating free on spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. This episode of secret societies brought to you by simply safe simply safe was designed to be easy to use while protecting your whole home twenty, four seven, order it online with the click of a button. When my box arrived, I was able to get started on it right away. I didn't have to wait around for a technician to install it or signing two year contracts I just had to place the sensors plugged in. And connected it to my Wifi. Then suddenly my home was protected, not only simply safe work, but the census looked great in my home. In fact, you can hardly tell they're there. They just blend right in and simply saints to four seven professional monitoring and emergency dispatch starts at only fifty cents a day. It makes perfect sense that US news and World Report called simply safe the best overall home security of twenty twenty. Head to SIMPLISAFE DOT COM slash secret to get a free HD camera that simply safe dot com slash secret to make sure they know that our show sent you. Now. Back to the story. In the late nineteen, sixty s or early nineteen seventies neo Nazi organizer David Miot founded the order of nine angles under the pseudonym Anton Long. Under my it stewardship, the group Combined Satanism with Neo Nazi ideologies, which might called National Socialism. Then they publish documents to attract more followers. These new members were taught. The ONA's core ideology that the world was divided between two distinct realms. The I was the causal realm or the natural world. We all inhabit where the laws of physics prevailed and reality could be observed and tested. The. Second World that might taught about was the causal realm as the name implied it was the dark opposite of the real world, a supernatural place where the laws of science were meaningless and sinister chaotic forces ruled. An. Practitioners goal was to become president in this a causal realm in order to harness its energy according to my it the a causal plane could then be used to effect change in the real world. This is where magic and sorcery came into play. A literature stated that there were three kinds of magic. The first external magic is what most people think of when they envisioned sorcery. It requires ceremonial rituals done by groups of magicians and include spells for specific purposes. The second form of magic was an internal version of the first, which could be performed alone or with one other practitioner as religious studies. Professor Connell Monette stated this form focused on the transformation of the sorcerer from something human to something alien. In other words, it allowed the practitioner to attain the Nichii an Uber, Manche ideal of self mastery and godlike wisdom and to become possessed by non-human for says. The final form of Owen, a magic called jahic magic attempted to use sorcery to create social change. This was a demonic version of societal disruption and transformation much like what the Nazis attempted, but with the addition of magic rituals, supposedly only the highest ranking members of the order were powerful enough practice this. Might combining magic with real world actions such as terrorism, assault, and political provocation. The ONA sought to disrupt society from within lay believe that this guerilla form of warfare would be much more difficult to stamp out. To that end beginner adherents were encouraged to commit crimes and wreak havoc as for Owen as advanced practitioners. They were busy trying to use dark magic to unleash the a causal realms sinister forces. It was this task that largely occupied David Miot he worked hard to develop a specific system to teach adherents how to harness the console realms power to bring about change in the natural world. My it called this method, the sevenfold sinister way. Owen a members at the first level were called neophytes. This stage was mostly about reading group materials and learning about the basics of Owen beliefs and practice. The second Owen a level was the stage of the initiate in addition to studying magic initiates were also required to complete a demanding physical task. One option involved walking thirty two miles in hilly terrain in less than seven hours. Lastly, in this year, it's required, find a partner, introduce them to the dark arts and then complete sexual rituals with them according to own a literature. The purpose of this stage was to awaken the darker sinister aspects of the psyche to increase a person's capacity for evil. The next level on the win a hierarchy involved becoming an external adept. At this point, the practitioner had to create a local chapter which the Owen a called a next John to recruit new members. In order to be considered legitimate, the external adept news after had to remain active for at least six months. In this time, they were required to perform regular rituals one of which was called the ceremony of recalling details about the specific gathering were written down in an Owen, a text known as the grim war of bath met. In the Early Fourteenth Century, the Knights Templar were accused of worshiping Batum at a dark. God. who was frequently depicted as a goat headed creature and thought to symbolize Satan. The Owen a however taught bathroom. It was a goddess both the mother and bride of Satan they described her as a violent entity to whom human sacrifices should be made. However in order to make a bloody offering, Tabatha Matt Owen a members I needed to summon the goddess into the every day causal realm. The best way they could do this was by performing the ceremony of the recalling. If, you were an a practitioner attending this ritual. It would be an experience you would never forget. You're standing at a small group of your brothers and sisters and a large wooded area. There are torches all around their light making up for the fating. Day. Ahead you can see a series of carefully placed stones. Wonder. At the significance of their strategic placement, you see people walking through the woods towards you and your brethren. Immediately that the first person is the Guardian. He wears the characteristic black robe of the role with a white mask covering his face in his ceremonial white robe the priest follows obediently behind him. The priestess rounds out the procession. She has on a red robe with a white sash across the middle. Suddenly she speeds up and you notice she has a blindfold in her hand as you watch the priestess carefully play-set around the priests is. With his vision restricted the priestess leads him to each congregation member for the ceremonial kiss. When it's your turn, you lean forward and peck the priest on each cheek noting how cold his skin is despite the warm evening error. Then you watch as the priestess leads the Priest into the circle of stones where the master and mistress of the temple are waiting. On being beckoned you and the rest of the Tannock congregation follow. You all slow down at the site of a large wooden altar. It sits at the head of the circle line by rows of red candles you watch as the black robed master moves to stand in front of the priest you're moved as you listened him chant several magical words repeating each invocation three times. At the conclusion of these incantations you in the congregation step forward to surround the blindfolded priest. Then you all walk slowly counterclockwise intoning the Latin words of the Diablo loose a black mass ritual chant. As your chanting escalates in volume the Guardian as the priests on the altar between the flickering red candles you watch the mistress carefully removes the priests garment then taking a flask filled with oil she pours it over his naked body anointing him when she's finished, she removes his blindfold. Now you and your fellow initiate step forward and chant the Diab loose again moving counterclockwise around the circle of stones you watch as the priests is shot and his breaths become slow and deep. As you continue walking around the circle, the mistress and the priestess, each removed their robes. Then the priestess begins performing oral sex on the priest when she finishes the Guardian List the priest and places him on his knees in front of the priestess. At the same time, the master kneels before the mistress. Then, the master and priests speak in tandem saying I, put my kisses at your feet and kneel before you who crushes your enemies. The mistress and the Priestess respond kiss me and I shall make you as an eagle to its prey touch me and I shall make you as a strong sword that severs stains my earth with blood. Moved by the power of the moment you and the rest of the congregation continued to circulate and chant all the While you watch as the priest, the priestess, the master, and the mistress begin having sex in front of the altar. With the ritual act is over the guarding approaches the priest and carefully places a hood over his head. Then he binds priests, ankles and wrists and lays on the altar once again. Though you're chanting and walking caught up in the moment you watch as the master takes the sacred knife then he waits for a signal from the mistress. When she gives it, you stare unflinching as the master presses the blade into the priests neck and slice it open with a swift practiced movement killing him. As the blood runs over the altar, her the master catches some of it. In the Empty Chalice, you know that he will save the priest blood for use in the sacred wheat cakes that the congregation will eat at the next new moon. For now you and the rest of the members gather in front of the altar watching as the Guardian drags the priest's body away. In his absence, the mistress picks up the sacred knife and pointed at the master saying so you have sown and from your seating gifts may come over. He the words I speak. Then she dips the end of the knife in the chalice and taps it against each congregants forehead. When the Blade touches your head, you feel the smear of the prese warm blood against your skin. After the anointing the mistress speaks again. I know you and all the thoughts within your hearts yet not one of you is as hateful or as loving as I with a glance, I can strike you dead. Then again, she goes to each member of the congregation and his them on the lips but this time she also removes their robes stripping them naked after she takes off your clothes she offers you the second chalice full of red wine. You feel a surge go through your body during the ritual slaying she channeled her deeply honed skill of sinister empathy. This allowed her to summon the dark goddess, and now by giving you the wine she is signifying that she is chosen you to be the vessel that will carry bathroom at spirit. You are honored to be the Chosen One. You take a sip of the wine and then hand it back to the mistress. She passes it around to each of the other members after one final invocation you and the mistress consummate the ceremony by having sex. When you finish the Guardian passes more wind around, and then finally the ceremony ends with an alcohol and marijuana. Ritual Orgy. Smaller chapters of the order of nine angles are said to have performed truncated version of this ceremony. Those abridged rituals didn't include a human sacrifice however according to Owen a documents the larger chapters ritualistically kill one of their willing members. Fortunately, this gruesome ceremony was only performed. Once every seventeen years, its purpose was to summon the power bath met with her might the believed could create chaos in the real world and even spark wars. The ceremony of recalling had one more disturbing feature. If an NA chapter after failed to find a member who was willing to be ritualistically sacrificed, they were encouraged to find an unwilling person from the general public to kill this sinister practice was called calling. Coming up, we'll explore this dark and disturbing tradition. This episode is brought to you by go daddy. As we reopen. 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The order of nine angles followed a theology that broke the world into two distinct planes, the causal realm of ordinary experience and the a causal realm of dark supernatural for says. The goal of the Owen, a was to harness the power of the a causal realm so that they could affect change in the real world. The Way to achieve that objective was to follow the sevenfold sinister way which included practicing acts of violence, endurance and ritual sacrifice. Beginning at the stage of external adept practitioners of Owen, a had to learn the art of sacrificial murder to that end they were tasked with choosing victims called offers from among the general population. In a treatise titled Concerning calling as an Art David Miot in his guys Anton Long wrote some humans by nature by character are rotten worthless and when this rotten character is revealed by their deeds, it is beneficial to remove them to call them. For, my a rotten person was a weakling who lacked honor, this was an overly broad definition meaning that lists politicians or even a member of another satanist organization could qualify as targets. However Owen a practitioners didn't call people at random instead the group's literature dictated to ways to choose victim. The first way involved masters and mistresses. Eating entire groups of people as being acceptable for calling their choice was usually discriminatory based on ethnic cultural racial or religious grounds. Once a group was given opera status. Any member of it could be murdered without further question of this Miot wrote it is legitimate and indeed a satanic duty to call an individual or many individuals from such a group. In. The case of choosing individual obverse weren't part of a condemned group. Owen a members had developed tests to determine if target was sufficiently rotten. Such trial involved sending a female member to flirt with a male target. If he succumbed to her advances and ask for a date, then she would suggest time and place to meet preferably in a relatively deserted area. At the appointed time, she would approach the man ensuring that he saw her coming. Then right before she got to him to male ONA members would jump out of a car and attack her pretending to be muggers rapists. The targets reaction would determine whether or not. He passed the test if he ran to her rescue physically intervening and showing his bravery than he was safe however, if he fled or didn't help her, he proved himself a coward. However, the Owen often gave the potential opt for a second test to verify if his weakness warranted calling. It was only if he failed the second trial that he was deemed suitable for human sacrifice. And that point own a members could make one of three choices. They could simply kill the opt for disguising his death as a run of the mill accident or they could perform a ceremony called the death ritual. In this right Oh na, members use magic to place a fatal curse on the offer thus eventually ending his life despite the unlikeliness of this scenario Owen, a writings claimed that a journalist who was cursed in the nineteen seventies developed a terminal illness and died. The last way uppers were called based on what we can assume from documents was my forcing them to participate in the ceremony of recalling in these situations that chosen victim would be kidnapped made to stand in for the priest and then be ritualistically sacrificed. Culling served at least two main purposes for the O. N. A. I. It was a vital part of the sevenfold sinister way helping members connect with and learn to harness the causal realms evil? Energy. Second served as an essential function in the real world my eliminating weaklings. The ultimate question though is whether the O. N. A. Actually followed through with any of these teachings. The groups, many writings if the ceremony of recalling took place, there's no evidence that any real sacrifice ever occurred. Of course that didn't mean it didn't happen people disappear all the time. It's entirely possible that a long forgotten missing person case could be explained by an Owen a calling. Still went scholar Connell Monette interviewed several members for his. Book Mysticism in the twenty first century all of them insisted that they never carried out a human sacrifice ritual. However in personal correspondence with Monette Miot writing his Anton long contradicted that stating some traditional next John's known to me do practice ritualized culling some only every seventeen years or so and others called victims in their own individual non ritualized manner. What my it called a non ritualized manner might have been a different and more terrifying form of sacrifice. According, to Monette some Owen members joined the police or the military to carry out legalized killings as a form of calling the unworthy. Whatever the real truth is mastering. The Art of culling was a requirement for third stage of the sevenfold sinister way once that was achieved, the external adept was ready to graduate to the next stage and become an. Adept This fourth level typically lasted anywhere from five to eleven years it involves more intensive study into sorcery and self mastery. In addition at this stage, more extreme physical demands were required pushing the Owen a practitioner towards maximum levels of fitness. The. Internal adept was also required to spend at least one season in total isolation honing their connection to the interior world and showing their independence from society. After completing all the tasks of the fourth stage the internal adept became a master or mistress moving onto the fifth stage. At this level a master or mistress had to lead a chapter of the Owen. A guiding members along the sevenfold, way. They also allegedly used sorcery especially eon magic to summon dark forces from the Causal Realm to bring about societal change. Few people ever reached the fifth stage and even fewer moved beyond it. For that reason n a literature claimed that only one or two people per century reached the sixth stage that of the grand master or grand mistress. Own Publications don't give information about expectations at this level. However, from what we understand about the Croup, we can surmise that grant masters or mistresses were likely in charge of the entire organization. David Miot in says Anton long was probably considered a grandmaster however, not even he reached the final level of the sevenfold way. The last stage was called the path of the immortal since it's unlikely. Anyone ever reached it information about this level is scarce. However, the name seems to suggest that ONA practitioners who achieved this stage would become gods. This was the end game the longed for motive behind all the as mystical feats practitioners hope that their rituals, ceremonies and adherence to the Sevenfold Bay would help them pursue their goal of Aryan supremacy. According to David Miot every human age destiny driven by a unique kind of a causal energy. He believed a nazi-inspired society was the future of Western civilization. However, my it taught that forces which he called Nazarene or Meiji and energies sought to halt the rise of this. Satanic. Rain. In short miot preached that Judeo Christian beliefs, democracy humanism man capitalism threatened the ultimate satanic destiny of Western civilization. For that reason, he argued that the rise of Fascism in the nineteen thirties was a good thing stating Nazi Germany was an expression of satanic spirit. It was a burst of Loucif fury in light of Zest and power. Though Fascism was ultimately defeated might believed it opened a gateway to the a causal world allowing for the emergence of Satanic Power. He taught his followers that practitioners of the sevenfold sinister way could harness that power and by performing their rituals and sorcery miot preach that ONA members could magically usher in a new version of Hitler's Third Reich. According to Owen Literature, it was at this point that a messiah like figure called vendex would appear on earth. After, his arrival ve index would usher in a series long period of Aryan rule power and prestige that he called the imperium at the end of this era of prosperity and progress he would lead humanity of planet earth and help them to colonize the solar system. For the members of the order of nine angles, intergalactic domination represented the final and dramatic triumph of Evil Satanic. Virtue. However, as they waited for indexes arrival miot encouraged. Initiates to prepare for this final era by committing grievous crimes judging by the violence instigated by Owen extremis over the last decade members are taking miot suggestion very seriously indeed. Thanks again for tuning into secret societies, we'll be back on Thursday with part two where we'll continue our investigation of the order of nine angles examined the way some of the group's members have attempted to put their violent philosophy into practice. You can find all episodes of secret societies and all other podcast originals for free on spotify. Not, only to spotify all ready have all of your favorite music. But now spotify is making it easy for you to enjoy all of your favorite podcast originals like secret societies for free from your phone desktop or smart speaker. To Stream secret societies on spotify, just open the APP and type secret societies in the. Search. Bar. We'll see you next time. Hey listeners get to follow blind dating for a fun twist on a classic Setup Youtuber and host Terry Michelle can't wait to help hopeful singles, meet their match search, blind dating, and follow free on spotify or wherever you get your podcasts.

Tabatha Matt Owen Nine Angles David Miot Anton Long England spotify ONA Owen Anton John Lennon Adolf Hitler Guardian Rick Clark Miot US Monette Miot murder Anton Levay Professor Connell Monette Owen Literature Terry Michelle
Accion's Michael Schlein on Financial Inclusion, Fintech & Impact Investment Sceptics

African Tech Roundup

39:32 min | 1 year ago

Accion's Michael Schlein on Financial Inclusion, Fintech & Impact Investment Sceptics

"Hi there my name. Is Clifford Matching iphone associate producer with African. Take Roundup in today's episode. We speak with Michael Shlein. CEO OF ACCION A global nonprofit organization committed to creating financially inclusive world. This this episode was taped on the sidelines of Afra Bites New York and we're excited to be apart of Africa's again in two thousand twenty happening in Paris on the ninth of June At Station F. We're really hoping to meet you there as we have the world's most diverse innovation ecosystem all under one roof. My first question basically is how you frame the notion of inclusion within the context of what you do let me start with what inclusion looks like and then talk about the absence of inclusion. I live in New York. City like many global capitals of the world we. We take for granted financial inclusion. So I have credit cards debit cards. I HAVE ATM's on every quarter. I have access to appropriate appropriate insurance for my health for emergencies for a variety of of of things and I have places where hi can save and invest my buddy and I have officiant payments easy cheap digital payments and for for example. My bills come in on a monthly basis and my income comes in on a monthly basis and all of that is enormously convenient. And I'd take all of it for granted granted as as your listeners do as well But for three billion people they live in poverty they lived near poverty they they live without access to or they have really poor access to the global financial system and their lives are so much harder because of that so a a typical woman living in poverty gets paid once a year at the time of the harvest and she has to make that money work all year and and yet she lacks a safe place to save. Just even that phrase a safe place to save we take that for granted she may have to travel hours just to make a single payment in cash to keep the lights on and those are ours that she's not getting compensated because she works on a farm and no one's paying in her time and she's not producing. She cannot get appropriate insurance even though she lives in an area where there baby droughts or there may be floods No one will lend to her to build her business and perhaps worst of all she lives completely in a cash world which means she is invisible to the global financial system and the global financial system is invisible to her and so even she's making regular Taylor payments to keep the lights on or to pay for school. She is not GonNa get credit for that. She's not building any credit history so she's doomed to stay invisible to the global system as long as she's living in a cash world and again all of that makes life much harder and all of that we can change and we must change and if if we can change we can make the whole system stronger and better and more more inclusive for all. That is our vision a financially inclusive of world where everyone has all those tools they need to make it easier to. My mind is a distinction between inclusion and access in. It appears to me. See that most of the efforts that claim the notion of inclusion would probably be better described as access plays as opposed to inclusion plays. Do you see that distinction. I think you are completely right. People talk about financial inclusion often. They measure it in terms of access. And and I think that misses the point. In fact the global Fedex produced by the World Bank funded by the gates foundation is an invaluable tool every three years. They they produce a new version of the global vendex and it is the scorecard by which we measure progress but it is very focused on accents so for example The new new data showed that one point. Seven billion people remain completely excluded when I talk about three billion also talking about people who are poorly served but the people that are completely excluded Are One point seven billion and we made some progress from twenty fourteen twenty seventeen more than then half a billion people gained access to an account. And to your point that's access access is not our vision access is only the first step towards our vision in fact when you dig a little bit deeper hundreds of billions of the people who have gained some form of access turn turn out to have dormant accounts accounts that are not used in more than a year. And if you think about that in your own life You use your financial nanteuil accounts in many cases daily. If you haven't used an account in more than a year you barely know it even exists and what it really means is generally speaking it. Means a government or an employer made a payment to you through in the counts and you withdrew it and now your you just cashed cashed it out and you never going back to that account so you don't even think of that account as as anything worthwhile Access is an important first extended. His only a first step are real. Vision is to help people save how people get appropriate insurance how people get appropriate appropriate credit and and US financial services to manage their day-to-day and of course seize opportunities when they when they get them. I'm that is far far more than excess I I actually. Inner question isn't even more important point. I think sometimes we get lost in the conversation. Conversation around access US and the real prize is making sure people use and benefit from that access. It's not access loaned is a friend of mine COMP- said measuring access is like measuring. I've gym memberships when you're trying to talk about you know personal health. Gym memberships is not the weight of measure an individual's health. I thought that was a powerful analogy. That is that that's one I haven't heard before and it's a good good when I should. I read into the fact that you you know prior to becoming president. CEO Affection you. You're civil servants at awesome would say some of the highest levels attainable within within America chief of staff of the US Securities Exchange Commission For example and then of course you were a senior executive for Citi Group. Would I be right in reading into the fact that you now head up. What's essentially a nonprofit in in saying the rhetoric you've sort of shed so fought doesn't seem top of mind enough at the state level or sort of the government level in most countries and it certainly only become topical for banks or the the the financial fraternity now being that they're being disrupted by by various issues? Shoes is only onset to look to to nonprofits doing impact investment. So there's much in your question of personally. I started out in investment banking. And you're right. I spent a dozen years in public service working both in New York City government and then And the federal government at the Securities and Exchange Commission and then I spent a dozen years working on Wall Street working at Citigroup where I I had a great opportunity to are run a variety of corporate functions. And when you're working in public service you're trying to make the world a better place when you're working you know at a dog. Do you're trying to help. You're trying to make people happy and get other people elected some would argue. Well no I mean for me. I was very much motivated. I I the public service the chance to serve and an inch and try to improve the world and and And I think most people who go into government have that to have that desire and then I have a dozen years at at city where I had the chance to learn about the world and see the the importance of financial services but largely for rich people and large corporations. That's the banking sector serves. And so for me. The chance to work at axiom is the combination of the best of both worlds I e every day I get to try to make the world a better place by bringing financial services to people who really need the and and Again you know I I I I come back to what I started with. We take a lot of this for granted as we should. But for three billion people the global financial system is a complete failure. It's failure to them and for the first time in human history. We have new tools at can really change that. And that's that's that's what excites me. Every day I suppose My questions really. One about incentive incentive right and. I don't want you to perceive it as a low blow to to sort of beat distrustful of of civil civil servants. But I I suppose supposed issue for me or my question to you is really. What did you learn to bought incentives misplaced incentives perhaps poorly framed framed incentives totally out of touch incentives that basically constitute governance in many countries? And then of course the deep unfortunate Incentives you know often hard nosed capitalist incentives that assets within sort of global financial. You no giants and I suppose given given you've been an old threes sort of scenarios now in a nonprofit sort of impact investment role. What have you learned about the importance of of incentives? Or perhaps when they're poorly sets what the consequences can be. It's actually a great question. I I have now. Travelled to nearly ninety countries around the world and I have spent a lot of time and and I do appreciate that a many governments do attract people for the wrong motives and so there are many people that that See the chance work in government as a chance to benefit. Personally I have not had that experience I worked again at pretty high levels. In in your city government doing economic development and then at the Securities and Exchange Commission and. I have many friends who worked in in high levels in the US government. And I am a a big believer in public service and I think there's it's a noble calling and I think you can have a great impact and I think most of the people I've met who have chosen that to suspend some or all of their life in public service are choosing it for the reason so I am i. Am I blind to people who go into government for the wrong reasons. Absolutely not But I do think my experiences most of the people Who who take on roles in public service are are motivated to do the right thing and then I submitted my question is more on the systemic issues the observed? Now I and I I was going to get to the other set of questions is I did spent spend a dozen years working in a large bank and I do think. Large corporations have enormous power and impact And they are organized around maximizing profits and all the incentives are aimed at that and I think I think that's a powerful and I think you can harness that. I very much enjoyed my time and learned a great deal but I did. I did and then have the opportunity and took the opportunity to work in a global nonprofit that for me personally combines. The Best of both worlds where you've got the pub- a public purpose of trying to make the world a better place and you've got the double bottom line. We're trying to not only have a great social impact but show you. You can do it in a sustainable and a scalable and therefore a profitable way to maximum by saying you have a bitter incentive regime for our mission absolutely absolutely but don't get me wrong We do a lot of work with big financial institutions and you have to appreciate eight that our goal our vision of naturally inclusive world is. We're trying to change the world for three billion people We are a nonprofit if it we we are supported by very generous philanthropy but to change the world for three billion people all the philanthropy in the world is insufficient mission to that task so very much a part of ex-cons mission is to work with banks and global companies to get them interested trysted in meeting the financial needs of the poor. So I appreciate your line of questioning is very interesting about incentives. I think I think part of excellence mission. Shen is to show you can have a huge social impact and also a healthy roads return and that is how we will attract investment vestment and that is how will we will attract innovation and that is how we we will attract partners who will begin to see those three billion people as has a big market opportunity. And so we're trying to harness the capital's earth not criticize it disrupt it. Well well no disrupted is a a whole different thing. I think much of the innovation we're seeing is highly highly disruptive but it is still leveraging investment and leveraging changing the corporate world. I don't see any other way to have a sustainable and scalable impact in the world without partisan business. Gotcha look I'm a pragmatist. I happen to agree with you. I just thought it's always interesting to us. Especially someone like your resists given how you've you'll you'll career so far has spanned three very interesting but very different and frankly very differently incentivized LOCALS OF POW how within global finance you know so it was quite interesting for me to hear your take on that but perhaps for people who on familial action. Here's your opportunity to sort of breakdown group structure I have in front of me a couple of PDF's that's quite impressively put on three or four pages everything you you guys have. Invested in and essentially give an idea of what your focus is in terms of growing portfolio and also engineering during the future quotes inclusion as you define it so let me take a little step back first before I talk about what we're doing today day to just give you a little bit of history. Exit exit started in nineteen sixty one again. A note a global nonprofit Our work began in Venezuela even though we were at a US based organization and we largely were a private sector Peace Corps which was quite extraordinary. 'cause nine hundred sixty. The Peace Corps did not exist in fact our founder went on to run the Peace Corps. I later on. And we spent a dozen years in Venezuela and then in several other Latin American countries basically doing community development and in the very early nineteen seventies. We said our clients need more than community Hyundai Development. They need capital so we started experimenting with making very small loans to the poor and we found that they could repay in loans ninety seven percents of time a statistic that has held up over several decades since then We were doing it. Latin America Dr Dr Mohammed. Yunus was doing it in Bangladesh. Others were doing it in Southeast Asia and we were part of and helped to build the global micro Finance microcredit microlending. Movement's and axion built a string of nonprofits in almost every Latin American country to make very small loans to the poor and we spent you know many years helping them grow and raise money and work on their methodology and and get gets a greater scale and nineteen ninety-two in what was a controversial event. Then and sort of a obvious now and seminal preventing our industry. The nineteen ninety-two accident created the world's first for profit bank for the poor Benko Soul in Brazil in Bolivia Livia and Benko Soul as a nonprofit had been doing very well but in nineteen ninety two as a for profit structure all of a sudden it could access the debt markets. It's all of a sudden could access. The equity markets could hire talent in a new way was regulated in a different way later on take deposits and Benko soul which had been doing very well as a nonprofit basically took off and and catapulted to a completely different should trajectory. We then went back. To all of those nonprofits we had created and recreated Anez four prophets so we became an early equity investor in and then helped to build build some of the truly great microfinance institutions in the world including BECO- Soland. Bolivia Me Banco in Peru Car Thomas in Mexico and then and later on comfort Thomas. We had the world's first IPO four a microfinance bank which was very successful again controversial reversal in the day But that allowed us to expand through ten countries in Africa India China the Philippines and most recently Myanmar and so we over many decades now have been working towards creating financially inclusive world by building institutions Russians that are focused on bringing financial services to the poor. That's our that's our background in the last decade or so we like everyone listening. You're listening to this. Our our our lives have been changed by technology and Accidents work has been changed by technology. And so we over. The last decade have become a Fintech venture capital investor in some of the very disruptive technologies that are rewriting the rules. Of How okay you can meet the financial needs of the poor We are probably the leader in seed stage investing in Fintech back for inclusion. I say that very carefully because there's a lot of money in seed stage investing. There's a a a lot of money in Fintech and there's a good amount of money in inclusion but if you draw if you draw those circles together and you see the overlap of the three We're you're among the only organizations that are exclusively focused on seed Fintech and inclusion and we now have looked at thousands of companies to make investments in about forty companies That are some of the most disruptive in the world and I mean on the continent That includes the likes of Lydia yes of Nigeria. Obviously Yoko. South Africa's Oona all life also South Africa Yup so again in having seen thousands of companies in that space what what stood out in those those particular examples or just give me a sense of giants up. Give me a sense of sorry before I do that. Just let me briefly say so. In addition to our work with see early stage companies we also oh are an investor at the early growth stage companies which are much larger investments in much larger companies. We also continue to invest in a banks microfinance institutions. All trying to meet the needs of the poor we also have a group called Global Advisory Solutions which are consultants. They're sort of of Accenture Bane McKinsey consultants. That go in and Vaughn and advise financial service providers on how to leverage new technologies to reach people that haven't been reached before and the last part of our work is We've created the Center for Financial Inclusion which is global think tank which works works in consumer protection and high quality research on the challenges the obstacles and the opportunities to create a financially inclusive world. So I I I do think for example. We have worked hard over many years to find the most innovative companies using new technologies to solve these issues. And now I think it's coming around the other way where they find us so it's a combination of chicken in an egg You have to work at it. But ultimately we are at again at the seed level. We are most often the first investor in the first institutional investor in these companies after friends and family. And so I think we've developed a reputation for willing a willingness willingness to invest earlier than anyone and also we go in and we bring high-quality what we call portfolio engagement which is against services and consulting services services that that Help these companies have greater impact. Do you end up finding startup culture. Bending to to sort of meet your molds or do you genuinely find people trying to solve local problems that just happened to be representative of your ethos. Well there's you there is a lot of innovation happening all around the world. Where exclusively focused on Fintech innovation again because our mission Asian is to create a financial inclusive world? So we're so A it's a combination of both we find them and they find us but we do in the courtship and in the due diligence process. Make sure that we're very very aligned. And these companies truly are double bottom line that is they are not only trying. I too have a big social mission. But they're also trying to be scalable and sustainable and profitable. That is how they will grow. I should say that we're particularly focused on these early. Stage companies not just see but also early and growth stage companies Because of the A world in which we're living today We are living in a world where digital technologies are allowing us to re imagine the world and start ups are faster and more capable at embracing the new technologies than existing institutions. Let me give you a little feel for what I mean. Used to be when you spoke about financial services for the poor. It used to be that. Yeah distances. Were seen to be insurmountable today. Day with technology there's no distance in the world that is insurmountable. It used to be that transaction sizes were too small to be commercially. Shauwie Bible today. New Technology is no transaction size. That's too small to be commercially. Viable it used to be very hard to figure out how to know your client when you're talking about The poor and the base of the pyramid and today data and data analytics are allowing us to know our clients in new new ways. And so whether it's data data analytics the Internet of things machine to machine technology. Global Satellite Imagery blockchain psycho psycho. Metrics biometrics the level of innovation is extraordinary and that changes all of our lives but has particular relevance events for how we can solve. Some of society's You know Muslim during problems. That's what we're trying to do. That's why we're focused on on early. STAGE COMPANIES COMEDIES. I'd like to factor in on a concern I have Around startups on the continents are not not all of them. Homegrown home grown certainly all of them africa-focused which seemed to be glossing over the fact that as they sort of promote their. They're sort of inclusion luge in rhetoric. They are in some ways undermining the rights of the people they serve by sort of scraping data from people who who don't know any better and certainly onto not in a position to articulate. Never mind protect their long-term well-being given everything we know is coming as part of this fourth industrial revolution. So I won't name any names. I'm glad to see that giving a quick quiz at your investment portfolio. Some some of the people we regularly site as culprits of this trend On on here but I do think you probably privy to debates that happened in this realm back in the day when you know sort of microfinance was the new buzzword and I think today we're looking at the whole micro-loan thing enabled by technology as being the new wave of of what could potentially be a problematic issue for the African continent. I think your question is a is a great question. It may even be the central policy issue that we as a society really need to grapple with and the end it is about without data and data privacy and the trade offs for society. So I can tell you scores of the companies that we we invest in are leveraging data and data analytics in incredibly creative ways and using that to again solve problems for people and provide financial opportunity The the problem is when people don't realize the trade offs and they don't understand What they're giving up? I I do think that people should have be able to make informed choices and say I'm willing to give you my data but I want something in return. I think some of the companies we've we've invested in our built on exactly that premise. That they're trying to empower people to see the value of their personal data There there are two companies it is in particular One is called the Staka made which were works in Latin America in Chile eggs and another one called Credit Montre that works in India. The premise there there is you have data. That can help. Tell your story think about it. This way. You shape your image on facebook facebook for example you would never let someone else put your profile together. You get to control that. Well how come we let people with the credit bureaus. You have. No influence in. This is a very important description of your financial capability capability. And you're on. It's a black box. So what what these companies are doing a saying just like facebook. You should be able to put your best foot forward. You should be able to shape how you come across. And and if you have additional data that would change of financial institutions view of you. That's valuable and so sure enough to Staka may for example if you're making regular red payments but durin cash or utility payments or you have other support the bolster your case to stock. Meg can analyze that. And then can you get a stock of May score that a bank can use to land and so again it comes back to your question. It people should be empowered by by their own data They should not just give it up and lose control of and it's very very important societal. Issue Yeah I mean I can appreciate how a company like Libya India for example providing SME e invoicing and sort of afford financing. I understand how if you're in that sort of markets You can fully expect people can understand what the value of what you're giving vessels what they're getting you know it's just becomes a little more of an issue for me when I see companies companies in the name of say lighting Africa. Something Employ these You know very aggressive data harvesting Regimes and it's not watches them. It's potentially smartphone manufacturers. It's it's a lot of people I just. I just imagined that You and your team and your executive team have to walk a fine line around looking into the future to see the benefits of allowing certain things that might upfront appear to be invasive and unfair exchanges of of value occur upfront. I I wonder how you frame that for yourself. The key is making sure people are making informed choices. So if I say to you I'll give you a two hundred dollar loan. If you give me all of your data on your phone you know in perpetuity you may say I'm not GonNa make that you know. My my data is more valuable than two hundred dollars now on the other side. If you're talking about a family in rural Kenya that has no access to financial services services and that two hundred dollars could really change their life in a good way they might make that choice differently so so it. It's all about informed choices and Making sure people understand the choices and I do think the the the thing that we all have to guard against is the hidden choices the uninformed choices things that you don't know you're agreeing to but I do think people can make informed choices to trade and I hope that the whole world starts to appreciate that data is incredibly valuable and you should only give access when when you're getting something in in return I suppose my sense of things. If I'm honest is just that. A lot of the rhetoric around financial inclusion and access isn't accompanied with enough resources and an intent around sort of solving the financial literacy problem that we have in places like the African continent attendance because there are people clicking yes to two requests all the time all over the continent in technically that takes sort of found is off the hook in terms of well we awesome. Ask Them for permission than they said. Sure or they bought into our notion of we're creating value and and they're sort of paying for it with data except I think one one out of maybe twenty don't even know what the implications are long-term of of decisions of that nature and I suppose that's that's that's one of my that's one of my biggest bug best knowing the and you're not alone. I think this goes way beyond national inclusion and poverty and even beyond the the continent continent. I do think you know. Europe has been leading the way in terms of new privacy regulations. And I think You know China is starting to use data And data analytics for social scoring which is very troubling in many ways I think these are the central issues of of society today today In all context I think really understanding privacy and the trade offs data privacy and who has access to your data and again. The goal is to make informed choices. I think these are huge. Huge issues for all of us to wrestle went but I do think you're right in your questioning and and I think we have a special obligation to make sure that their choices are informed. Absolutely I do a lot of work with our clients and I and our clients clients are extraordinarily sophisticated. They may not have financial resources. But they're they're very sophisticated and I think they are quite capable of making well informed. I'm so glad you didn't say that you work with your clients and they don't give a flying horse shoe because I would have believed you and But Yeah I do. I'm not so cynical to believe that everybody's out for themselves and doesn't care about these issues and I I know enough found is in the space to to know that there are no simple answers question and of course I'm not so backwards to believe that we have to sort of wait until every sort of potential conflict of interest is settled before we actually try things in and move forward but I do think we need more people making more noise about some of these issues so at last few questions for your really easy no no let let let me I I I just want to I know that a ten day the entrepreneurs before and he's one of the great entrepreneurs that I think Lydia is an extraordinary company that is helping to find new ways of meeting the financial needs of small mom and pop businesses in Nigeria. But let me just describe some some of the innovation that we're seeing particularly focus on a trend that we're seeing more recently in providing insurance to people who have been left out and again here. Here people sometimes misused the loan product because they don't have insurance so if you have a fire or you may borrow to rebuild bill but what you really should have had insurance but if insurance is not available you may take out alone but when we're now seeing is new ways of again using digital technologies choose for insured tech what they call it so I'll give you a few examples. I'm Pula is a company in Kenya. That is using the data breath from satellite imagery to help meet the needs of smallholder farmers. Single family one acre farms. Which of course is a big portion and of the three billion people? Sixty percent of Africans of Africa's population are involved in farming and from the data from satellite imagery imagery. They can help assess if a farm has been flooded. If there's a drought if the seeds are are working well so so you can provide insurance and plus especially in the context of Kenya you can do it with An pesos so people can pay for the insurance and also get paid back. When there's a claim through a digital currency and it's it's really pretty amazing that that's one example? Another example is Lim Connie in South Africa where in a small informal village. A fire can not only hurt one home but can hurt the entire village village and so but Lincoln does. Is they use the Internet of things and they use devices that are both heat sensors and fire sensors. And if there's a fire or heat heat in one unit the entire community gets notified in real time and that can that can save lives that can save homes uh-huh and that can make an entire community that was uninsurable can all of a sudden BP insured and the last one. I'll mention is a great company. Also so in South Africa called all life which is the first company in the world to provide insurance for people with HIV. And now they're also working with people with Diabetes Abe's and that's unfortunately a very large percent of the population and today if you have the right cocktail of antiretroviral medications as you can live for decades as long as you stay on your meds and so they use digital technologies to make sure that you're staying on the correct regime and as long as you do that you have insurance and especially in the South Africa context. You cannot own a home unless you have life insurance. So we're we're talking about a significantly financially excluded population that all of a sudden can be included so those are just a couple of examples of some new technologies. They are finding finding new ways to solve old well. I'm grateful to you because I was my last question. Well one of my last questions was going to be Do you have any favorites I know you the you've you've you've you've already alluded to some and I think in fairness I want you to be to to rest easy in the knowledge that I'm I'm not a cynic looking at your portfolio at at a glance right. You mentioned all life. I know people personally who who wouldn't have life insurance except for that company and and of course now that's a trend that's caught on in other insurance companies have started to offer while not all certainly but others insurance companies have come online and started to quote unquote. Do the right thing thing. I do definitely have first hand experience of how tools of this nature innovation of this nature in the financial services. Space can trudy changed lives. I suppose my burden is that people like you guys have a sense of just how profound the wave of sort of rhetoric and and policy he making potential that you starts will create you know that you guys have a really grounded sense of the implications of what that means for people like us on the ground and to that end up you. You don't want to close with this question. which is when was the last time you hit in the face with like Direct impact of of the work. You do I'll stick to Kajiya and Lydia in one day. I was visiting not long ago and I have a chance to meet with several of his clients and just for your listeners. But Lillian does is they work with small mom and pop shops and they provide a digital invoice tool for free and that helps oops a small business go from cash to digital records and then off of that data Lydia can begins to lend and see precisely What this small stores small enterprise Can't afford word in credit and and I was with his clients and literally his clients. Were saying you know. Linda knows more about the finances of these small auto shops than the than the entrepreneurs themselves and it's incredible because banks don't know how to lend to these companies and intimidate is again harnessing technology to find new ways of doing things that the banking system has failed out for a very very long time and that is tremendously exciting. So yeah it's hits you in the face and it's great. It's it's why I do the work that I feel Michael Snyder. Thank you so much for being on the African take around up. It is my pleasure. Glad to talk to you thank you.

Access Securities and Exchange Commis Lydia US Peace Corps CEO South Africa Africa Kenya Africa Venezuela New York World Bank Fedex ACCION Michael Shlein Nigeria
Order of the Nine Angles Pt. 2

Secret Societies

42:09 min | 10 months ago

Order of the Nine Angles Pt. 2

"Due to the graphic nature of the secret societies actions. Listener discretion is advised. This episode contains descriptions of Murder Abuse, racist ideology, and sexual assault that some people may find offensive. We advise extreme caution for children under thirteen something to note all of the groups covered on this show operate in secret the details included in this episode or based on extensive research, but ultimately can never be one hundred percent verified except by society members themselves. At Nine Thirty PM in May Twenty Twenty, the barracks were quiet most of the other US army grunts route enjoying a pleasant evening and Vicenza Italy but twenty two year old private Ethan Meltzer sat in his bunk, his laptop open before him. He pulled a documents stored in a hidden folder on his I cloud titled Harvest of the soldiers just having it on his computer could land him in prison after all it was a terrorist handbook for attacking American Army units distributed by Isis meltzer clicked on another file. This one had a series of satellite graph showing a military base in Turkey, MELTZER's units next assignment certain the documents were in order meltzer logged into an encrypted chat APP that he used to communicate with other members of the order of nine angles. As planned his own contact was waiting meltzer eagerly typed I, have the documents and I now know the date when my unit is transferring to Turkey. His contact replied, that's good. When it all goes down, this will be a full blown Heidi attack with mass casualties. You know there won't be any guarantee for your own safety. MELTZER. Responded then I would have died successfully causing another ten year war in the middle. East. Will definitely leave a mark on the world. Hi I'm Vanessa Richardson, on Greg Poulsen and this is secret societies spotify original from podcast. Every Thursday we examined history's most exclusive organizations from around the world and try to shine a light on these mysterious groups from the aluminum body to the order of nine angles we'll explore. Impact each secret society actually had on the world around them. This is our second episode on the order of nine angles a prominence satanist group based in the United Kingdom. Last week, we discussed how neo Nazi David Miot used his writings to shape the on a into a ritualistic murderous cult. This week will look at how my local organization evolved into a worldwide network with affiliate cells across Europe and north. America will also explore how members acted out the Owen as violent teachings in real life. We'll have all that and more coming up. Stay with us. This episode is brought to you by bio life plasma services. Your plasma is desperately needed to help treat those who are most risk right now, and when you donate plasma at via life, you can earn up to six hundred dollars in your first month become a donor at bio life visit via life plasma dot com to schedule an appointment. This episode is brought to you by bull and branch incredibly soft sheets crafted with organic cotton. So comfortable, even three former US presidents have slept on them only at B. O., l., l., andbranch, dot com. This episode is brought to you by loan depot today with interest rates remaining near historic lows. There's never been a better time to talk with loan depot about purchasing a home or refinancing your current mortgage rates terms and availability of programs are subject to change without notice Loan Depot Dot COM LLC NMLS I one, seven, four, four, five, seven in MLS consumer access dot Org Loan Depot Dot COM LLC two, six, six, four, two, town centre drive Foothill Ranch California nine, two, six, one, zero, equal housing opportunity lender. The. Order of nine angles emerged in the early nineteen seventies in England it quickly joined the Neo Nazi movement that was growing in the UK at the time. Writing under the pseudonym Anton Long right wing activists, David Miot. Spent the nineteen eighties and nineteen ninety s as the as primary voice blending his Nazi sympathies with his interest in magic and the occult He created a comprehensive set of violent religious practices core among them was the art of calling a ritualized form of human sacrifice that targeted the Owen as enemies. During this time my it also worked with right-wing paramilitary organizations. It was a way for him to put his theoretical teachings on violence into practical action. Before long association with these groups as well as with the O. N. A. got him into trouble in Nineteen eighty-four might was suspected of committing a ritual. Listrik. In. March that year a seventy, eight year old woman named Hilda Merle disappeared from her home in Shropshire police found her car abandoned on the road near her house and feared foul play a manhunt ensued. Three days later and investigators searched a wooded area near where authorities had found Merle's car. He was preparing to leave when he notices something lying in the brush up ahead it was a shoe nearby, lay a piece of tattered clothing. as he approached the items, the officer caught a glimpse of something narrow and white hidden beneath a large vine covered Bush. It was a human leg. Merle was naked from the waist down she'd been beaten and stabbed multiple times. The coroner determined that she had still been alive when her attacker tossed her into the underbrush left to the elements Merle died of hypothermia. Following her murder numerous conspiracy theories arose in the press moral had campaigned for nuclear disarmament and criticized the UK's support of nuclear power as a result. Many people believed that government agents had killed her to silence her. Her nephew, a retired Royal Navy intelligence officer named Robert Greene investigated. The case Green believed that the British counter intelligence service M I five was involved with his answer murder, but according to him, they hadn't acted alone. Instead, Green believed there was an occult element to the crimes. The killer had etched strange symbols on Merle's driveway. They'd also abducted her on the Spring Equinox March twenty first, and they'd left her body near an ancient lay line. laylines thought to be invisible links between important ancient sites and landmarks. Some people believe that these lines represent esoteric sources of energy. Some Pagans. Took this theory one step further asserting that Ley lines held the key to arcane knowledge that modern humans had lost. Green didn't think it was a coincidence that Merle was lying on a Ley line instead since the lines were part of a pagan belief system, he proposed that M I five had hired Satanists to kill his aunt. while. It sounded like an outlandish claim Greens accusation wasn't all that bizarre. In the mid nineteen, eighty s fear of satanic cults was at an all time. High people often attributed anything that hinted at the cult to devil worshippers. Green suggested that M I five agents had taken advantage of this fear to disguise their role in murals assassination. Perhaps, they'd hired Satanists to ritualistically murder mural at the sort of red herring if the public believed a cult was to blame, it would deflect attention away from the government. It's not clear of Greens. Investigations Cause Police to suspect Owen a founder David Maya to being the culprit but lived in the area and was a well known leader of a satanic cult and in the Owen. As Black Book of Satan volume three adherence are told his celebrate spring equinox with the ritual calling. According to some sources, the police eventually interviewed about the crime, but they could not prove that he had any involvement in the case though Miot walked free the Hilda Merle incident may have marked the first time the Owen a came onto the polices radar miot feared it wouldn't be the last. After his brush with law enforcement in Nineteen eighty-four might became paranoid not long after his interview he said to have disbanded the ONA chapters he led in England. Deciding more decentralized approach was safer. He began reworking his teachings encouraging practitioners to focus on studying the ways of the Owen A in isolation. In addition my it continued to write prolifically publishing new works about the O., N., A., and Neo Nazi philosophy. Perhaps worries about law enforcement also convinced him to quit the country for whatever the reason miot allegedly left England for some time to study Arabic and travel across Africa in search. Of New Tarik Knowledge in his absence, a new figure emerged as the Public Voice of the O. N. A.. Richard, moult was a musical composer and longtime member of the organization using the bombastic pin name Christos beast mold put his own unique stamp on the group through his writings. He quickly became the Owen as new spokesman calling himself the outer representative. As, for my head, he continued to advise the group and even returned to England though it's not known exactly when. He began focusing not on the society he'd founded but on Neo Nazi activities outside the Owen a for him, the sevenfold way was primarily lifestyle of violence and he intended to embody it. In Nineteen ninety-three Maya joined the violent Neo Nazi group called combat eighteen. The organization began as the security wing of the British National Party of Far Right Political Club. Combat Eighteen purpose was to protect members from anti-fascist protesters, but the group quickly took on a life of its own and split from the British National Party in Nineteen ninety-three shortly after my joined. With his ONA experience my, it quickly distinguished himself among combat eighteen members speaking at meetings and helping to develop the group's ideology. He spent the next few years writing literature for the organization including instructions on building homemade bombs. In the mid nineteen, ninety s might Penta pamphlet called a practical guide to Aaron Revolution. It was a handbook instructing readers on how to plot terrorist attacks. It became one of his first writings to be posted on the Internet with that the genie was out of the bottle and the violent instruction manual spread rapidly. Simultaneously, with Miot, releasing this powder keg combat eighteen was in the midst of a crisis. The head of the organization Charlie Sargent was sentenced to life in prison after he and a friend stabbed a member of a rival Neo Nazi faction to death. My it had been a loyal follower of sergeants. So after sergeants arrest might left combat eighteen and formed his own group called the National Socialist Movement, he immediately set about recruiting new members. However, it wouldn't be long before the law came for him to. According to one online source in Nineteen Ninety, eight detectives from Scotland Yard arrested my it. They claimed his online publications including a practical guide to area and revolution incited murder and racial hatred. Though the authorities eventually released my it, a massive cross-departmental investigation is said to have begun. Might appeared on the cover of the Anti Fascist magazine searchlight, but the caption, the most evil Nazi in Britain. This second major criminal inquiry must have scared him after being questioned in the Hilda Merle murder case he reportedly disbanded his ONA chapters this time my it resigned from his own group the National Socialist Movement after nearly a decade on the Neo Nazi movements frontlines, he decided it was time to return to his esoteric studies. But then in September of Nineteen Ninety Eight, he did something that no one saw coming. He converted to Islam. Coming. Up We'll explore miot sudden change of faith and how his violent writings encouraged three murders. podcasters you know the world can be chaotic and unpredictable. But how far would you go to turn the tides of favor and your direction? At the newest spotify original from podcast, we're taking a closer look at bad omens, good luck charms and age-old traditions that just might have the power to change our fates. Each episode of superstitions presents a new drama that unpack different belief. Can Holding your breath while passing a cemetery save your life will carrying a rabbit's foot. Bring you luck. How can you go through life always avoiding the number thirteen and why should you try? They may seem mystical unusual completely illogical. But one thing is certain. You ignore them at your own risk. You can find and follow superstitions free on spotify. Over ever you get your podcasts to hear more podcast search podcast network in spotify search and find a growing slate of thrilling new series to enjoy. This episode is brought to you. By bollandbranch, bollandbranch offers some of the softest sheets in the world. They have thousands of five-star reviews including from three former. US presidents bollandbranch cotton is rain Fed pesticide-free and carries the highest organic certification. That's why it's so soft their thousand dollar quality but start at just one hundred and sixty dollars plus you can sleep on them for a month. risk-free restrictions may apply see bollandbranch dot com for details. That's B. O. L. L. Andbranch DOT COM. Now back to the story. In the early nineteen nineties David Miot stepped back from his leadership of the Owen a to practice what he preached. He joined and launched several Neo Nazi political organizations becoming one of the most prominent British far right figures. Then in nineteen ninety, eight miot shocked the world by converting to Islam. This action must have confused a lot of at the time but some think my it was trying to rehabilitate his reputation. Islam has often been called the religion of peace. It's very name comes from the Arabic form of that word optimists that my it's change in faith was his way of rejecting his previous dedication to violence. But my it's true intentions quickly became apparent when he began writing track supporting Osama bin Laden in his terrorist crusade against the capitalist West. Despite, viewing Muslims as ethnically and racially inferior might saw radical Islam as a vehicle to reach his alternate pock Elliptic Vision for the future. He wanted Aryan superhumans to dominate the world and then colonize the galaxy. But before that could happen western capitalism had to be defeated. In practical terms might likely saw groups like the Taliban and Al Qaeda as natural allies against his greatest enemy a capitalist Judeo Christian society. But even as he worked to create a new image for himself as a radical Muslim, my it's past writings on Aryan ism continued to haunt him. He had already been investigated for inciting racial hatred but in nineteen, ninety nine, he became entangled in yet another murder case. Over several weeks in April three, nail bombs exploded across London the blasts injured one, hundred, thirty, nine people and killed three including a pregnant woman. The first device detonated in a predominantly black neighborhood. The second went off in an area where many Asians lived and the third targeted London's Gay community. Police eventually arrested a twenty two year old named David Copeland for the Crime Copeland was a member of the National Socialist Movement. The group Maya had started in nineteen ninety seven on being questioned. He said his goal had been to start a race war. Investigators noticed immediately that Copeland's actions seemed to be directly inspired by the National Socialist Movement which was based on my it's philosophies on one of their web pages. They wrote that really war means creating tension and terror with an ethnic communities and damaging or destroying their property and their homes by firebombs and or explosive devices. Part of this involves attacking individuals and killing some of them. These incriminating words led police right to Maya door. He was questioned extensively during the investigation but my it denied knowing copeland or having anything to do with his bombing spree and ultimately police were unable to prove. He had any involvement in the attacks but that didn't stop a lot of people from believing he'd both known and Mentor D- Copeland. By this point my it was free to continue his pursuit of radical Islam and to start writing a new for the a though this remained a secret in the two thousands both Maya, and the Owen as. Roman Richard moult continued to be influential in the organization using the Internet to spread their work. The two could reach more potential members than they ever had before. In addition to recruiting people through the Internet, the ONA started for members among different subsets of society. One group, the a targeted were the so called below biens. This is what they termed artists, musicians and writers who they believed shared the O. N. AS SINISTER EGO. For example, many satanic death metal bands and their fans were below biens and thus ripe for recruiting. Owen a also targeted gang members might believe that like below begins these groups followed an ideology similar to the Owen as the society even went as far as claiming that a biker gang in Florida and a Hispanic group in New York, follow their teachings. The group's final allies were what they called the niners. These were individuals that followed the immoral teachings of the Owen and lived what they called an adversarial life. It's unclear if niners followed the magical aspects of the O. N. a. a similar group of recruits is called the drax who presumably obeyed Richard Molds Personal Drek in philosophy. In two, thousand, nine mult published a booklet called the directly. In Way it elaborated on existing Owen a beliefs and sought to prepare for Labor is, for quote, the return of the dark gods through image word and music. In addition to this artistic focus, the in way lighted the practical teachings of the organization including the art of calling it also focused on using violence antisocial behaviour to undermine Western society. The book was apparently a success as it turned out. The way was precisely what the Owen a needed to reach a whole new class of potential converts. Anyone who wanted to become a drek simply had to participate in a pledge ceremony either with others or alone at these events the new member stated I accept there is no law, no authority, no justice except the Drek and that calling is unnecessary act of life I believe in one guide are directly in law and in our right to rule mundane 's. After that the new initiate cut his thumb with a hunting knife and let the blood drip onto a piece of white paper. He then burned the piece of paper and said, I swear on my. Honor as DRAC that from this day forth, I will never surrender I will die fighting rather than submit to anyone and will always uphold the directly in code. Afterwards the DREK had to carry the hunting knife used in the ceremony at all times. Once they were officially initiated into the decks. Members were encouraged to create chaos terrorize people and defy public laws in the DREK way mult wrote we are sinister. We are a moral we are feral. We are a new sinister species, a new type of human being. In the book mold described anyone who is not drag as a mundane and encouraged violence against them he wrote that directs should treat Mondays as enemies disobey their laws and police and steal their wealth and resources. mult claimed that the worst type of mundane was a group. He called Homo Hubris because Owen a literature is vague and often contradictory in nature. It's not clear precisely who the Homo Hubris or supposed to be, but considering the ONA's ties to neo, Nazi, philosophy and Satanism, the word may refer to Jewish or Christian people. Multi argues that these people are responsible for everything that is wrong with the world directs are encouraged to use manipulate and is them. Molds teachings on the directly in way attracted new converts to Owen a philosophy by removing some of the black magic and satanic rituals from his hateful philosophy. He was able to reach extremists who might otherwise have dismissed the group as being too. Esoteric. In the last ten years numerous far right. Paramilitary groups have used Owen A and drek in literature to inspire their violent actions. One such group was a British Association called national. Action founded in two thousand thirteen. It only took three years for the government outlawed as a terrorist organization. Despite that national action remained active underground. That's how a far-right provocateur named Garin helm found. The group helm had gained notoriety in the British press after the assassination of liberal British politician Joe Cox. Cox had been an outspoken advocate for immigration and antifascism and was murdered by far right extremist in two thousand sixteen. In an undercover video, Helms stated that Cox a traitor to Jerez and deserve to be killed. This wasn't the first time helmed got in trouble for hate speech in two thousand fourteen after he threatened a different female politician with anti Semitic language on twitter investigators searched Helms home there they discovered his connection to national action and the Owen A. Helm had a photo of Hitler hanging above his fireplace. But below that on the mantle, he had another picture. It was a complex starlike figure with seven points and nine lines representing the sevenfold sinister way. In other words, it was the logo of the Owen A. According to hope not hate a British anti-racist group helm wasn't the only Owen a supporter among national actions, leaders, Ryan Fleming the head of a chapter in Yorkshire, was also a top figure in the Neo Nazi group. He'd made headlines in two thousand seventeen for raping a minor, his second sexual assault conviction in just six years. But the Owen as influence on national action was only the tip of the Neo Nazi iceberg. The society has also significantly influenced to other far right groups the Atom Waffen Division based in Florida and its British counterpart, the Sonnen Creek Division. According to hope not hate these groups published some of the most disturbing propagandists scene from the far right. In several decades the zone and creek is known for promoting rape torture and pedophilia through their documents and videos. And if that's not bad enough, these two off-shoot troops have also been implicated in multiple murders. Coming up, we'll explore how the ONA inspired a terrorist plot against the US military. This episode of secret societies is brought to you by. Safe simply safe was designed to be easy to use while protecting your whole home twenty, four seven, order it online with the click of a button when my box arrived, I was able to get started on it right away. I didn't have to wait around for a technician to install it or signing two year contracts. I just had to place the sensors plugged in and connected it to my. Wifi. Then suddenly my home was protected, not only just simply safe work with the census look great in my home. In fact, you can hardly tell they're there. They just blend right in and simply saints twenty, four, seven, professional monitoring and emergency dispatch starts at only fifty cents a day. It makes perfect sense that US news and World Report called simply safe the best overall home security of twenty twenty. Head to SIMPLISAFE DOT COM slash secret to get a free HD camera that simply safe dot com slash secret to make sure they know that are sent you. This episode is brought to you by bio life plasma services. Now, more than ever people want to know if there's anything they can do to help and the answer is, yes have bio life plasma services. Your plasma is desperately needed to create life changing medicines to help treat people with immune deficiencies. Those who are most risk right now and when you donate plasma bio life, you can earn up to six hundred dollars in your first month as a token of appreciation for your time. So please become a donor at bio life visit vile life plasma dot com to schedule an appointment. Now back to the story. In the early August the Owen a increased, its worldwide membership using the Internet and social media to reach and recruit initiates the total number of members remains unknown. Since then to Neo Nazi terrorist groups who were influenced by the a called the Atom Waffen Division and the zone and Creek Division have come to the attention of local authorities in both the US and the UK. The Atom Waffen Division was founded in Florida in two thousand fifteen. It was a fascist terrorist organization that wanted to destroy civilization and bring about racial cleansing by ending Western capitalist. Society. In addition to these Neo Nazi aims the atom often division followed satanic teachings of the Owen A. This wasn't surprising as according to the Southern Poverty Law Center. The atom often division was steeped in the history of the American White Power Movement and Esoteric religions. The group published material with a small press that was run by one of its members. A man named Joshua Sutter Sutter also led the temple of blood which was a chapter of the Owen A. All these ties to the society meant that it didn't take long before the Atom Waffen division began following the ONA's as most deadly practice calling. In January two thousand eighteen authorities found a gay Jewish teenager named blazed Bernstein murdered in California with more than twenty stab wounds. Officers arrested a former classmate of Bernstein's named Samuel Woodward, and charged him with homicide. Investigators soon, discovered that Woodward was a member of a California chapter of the Atom Waffen Division. They believed that Owen A and Adam. Often teachings on antisemitism and calling drove Woodward to murder. Bernstein as a result authorities charged him with a hate crime in addition to murder. As up now the case is still pending, but it wasn't an isolated incident. Police have arrested numerous other members of the atom often division for various violent crimes. These transgressions ranged from weapon and drug charges to possession of child pornography, terrorist threats, and several murders. The group also inspired a sister society of violent extremists across the sea. By late two, thousand, eighteen, the atom Waffen divisions. Owen. A inspired brand of Neo Nazism spawned an English chapter called the zone and Creek. Division. The founders of the sonnen creek identified with the panic undercurrents in the Adam Kaufman and Owen Eighth LAFI. The also valued the violent teachings of draconian way which claimed that laws were inventions of the mundane 's therefore, practitioners were encouraged to be lawless. To that End Design Creek Division embraced crimes like Pedophilia and rape using encrypted APPs, and the dark web to spread their ideas. However, it wasn't these grievous crimes that pushed the group into the national consciousness. Instead Design Creek Division made headlines at England when they suggested that someone should assassinate Prince Harry. The group accused him of race mixing when he married Meghan Markle a biracial woman. Then they posted a photograph online showing Prince Harry with a gun to his head the caption read seal later race traitor. Unfortunately, this is fairly tame compared to the group's other publications. In the past the Zaanun Creek Division has also produced a video in which an apparently willing female participant was tortured and cut with a knife. In other posts, members have asserted that all police officers should be raped and killed. The Anti Fascist Group hope not hate stated some members of the Zone Creek Division have also carried out satanic fantasies allegations of rape and imprisonment against their own members are circulating. In two, thousand, nineteen, two teenage members of the group Michael Shoot Chuck and Oscar done Hausky were convicted of encouraging terrorism though he wasn't charged for shoe chuck also maintained a blog where he discussed child rape. For his part done Khoza rouse stated that it would be better to decapitate a child. Then let it become a liberal politician. He also said quote terror is the best political weapon because nothing drives people harder than a fear of sudden death. For All these reasons in February twenty twenty, the group became the Second Neo Nazi organization after national action that authorities banned in the UK. In addition to these groups, Lone Wolf individuals have also found inspiration in Owen writings in two thousand, nineteen, an unnamed sixteen year old Owen. A practitioner became the youngest person convicted for planning a terror attack in the UK. He used to journal to charters progress as he studied the Owen as teachings on personal transformation. His goal was to eliminate empathy for others and become in his words like the living dead. He plotted to attack places around his hometown and wanted to set fire to synagogues. He also sought bomb-making materials and professed admiration for Hitler. Thankfully police arrested the teenager for his online activities before he had a chance to carry out Anita's plans, he was convicted in early twenty twenty for his actions and sentenced to nearly seven years in prison. Similarly, in the spring of two, thousand, twenty, twenty, two year old US army private. Ethan Meltzer also attempted to put the ONA's teachings into practice. MELTZER. I became affiliated with the O. A in two thousand nineteen though exactly how he got involved is unknown. Besides consuming the group's literature, he also obtained an instruction manual produced by the terrorist group Isis called harvest of the soldiers. The booklet described how to perpetrate terror attacks against US military personnel. In April two thousand, twenty Meltzer learned that the army was transferring his unit from Italy to a base in Turkey, it was around that time that he began to plan an ambush on his own fellow soldiers. In numerous encrypted online discussions with a members meltzer laid out a plan to create a mass casualty incident against his own unit. He provided satellite maps of their base and Turkey with each building clearly labeled he also gave details about other soldiers, strength surveillance, and defensive capabilities. The plan involved the Owen A. Middleman meltzer provided the details to his contacts with the group and those people promised to pass it onto owen a affiliated jihadi extremists in the area meltzer also supposedly exchanged messages with a member of Al Qaeda. He intended to ensure that its contacts in the O. N. a understood how deadly serious he was. He acknowledged that he was willing to die but that he didn't WanNa throw his life away for nothing. He told them that he was expecting results. The case is still pending. So we don't know the full details of what happened, but we do know authorities closed in on Meltzer and arrested him in. June. Two Thousand Twenty once in custody he admitted to everything and proudly stated that was a traitor to the United States. He declared he had wanted to kill as many of his fellow soldiers as possible. His ultimate goal had been to start a war in the region like the A and the atom Waffen Division meltzer claimed he wanted to bring about social change through terrible violence. As we've seen in many of these horrible acts the ultimate goal of Owen, a followers to hasten the collapse of Western civilization and capitalism. They believed that the best way to do this is by spreading chaos and destruction. Once, the downfall of society has been achieved Owen practitioners then want to establish a white supremacist dominion. In their more esoteric teachings they profess that the West is under political and financial domination by the May genes, which is their code word for Jewish people. Once the O. A ended allies can overcome these forces as we covered last week. Then they believe in new leader called VENDEX will emerge. According to Owen a writings this messiah like figure will lead the renewed West to colonize the solar system and establish an Arian Bill. Lactic, empire. It makes for a disturbing picture of the future, but it's one that David Maya and the O. N. A. have been obsessed with bringing about. In the present through the terrible crimes of Neo Nazi groups and right wing extremists the O. N. A. and the directly in way have spread across the world and taken on a sinister life of their own. However while the Owen, a seems to enjoy more popularity than ever before it's founder David Miot has distanced himself of the group. He renounced his conversion to Islam around two thousand ten and publicly rejected all forms of extremism condemning his past writings and actions. He now spends his retirement following a personal philosophy called the newness way an alternative to the sevenfold sinister it preaches peace tolerance and compassion. But Journalists Nick Lulls of hope not hate cast doubt on my it's one hundred, eighty degree turn. He insisted that all of my its actions including conversion to Islam and his creation of the numerous way have all been part of a larger plan. lulls and others who have studied the Owen a pointed out that practitioners of the sevenfold way were encouraged to perform something called an insight as part of their personal transformation. Journey Lowell stated insight roles are a deliberate ploy to infiltrate, explore, and subvert other organizations and religions. He noted that Richard Moult also started to distance himself from the Owen A and started practicing Catholicism. But like my and his Islamic faith multiple renounced his conversion and began writing for the Owen a again. Religion Scholar Jacob see sent hold seconded Lowell Skepticism sent hold stated that while Anton Long David. Miot suspected alter ego claimed to have retired from the Owen. A long has continued to publish documents on various Owen a websites in recent years if it is Anton long as most experts suspect, then he clearly hasn't given up his role in the organization at all. Instead, his retirement and alleged change of heart might have been just another charade a part of a larger diabolical plan that has been emotion motion for over fifty years. Manipulation. Of others is a core philosophy of the Owen A to achieve this members are encouraged to lie Maya's longtime insistence that he is not Anton. Long is an example of this. So it's not hard to imagine that while he publicly as spouses piece, he's still working behind the scenes planning for the downfall of the West Meanwhile across the globe far right extremism is on the rise social upheavals and political showdowns have shaken society when religious studies, Professor Connell, Monette interviewed Owen a members Mo- net found them hopeful about the group's future. Thanks again, for tuning into secret societies will be back on Thursday with a new episode. You can find all episodes of secret societies and all of the podcast originals for free on spotify. We'll see you next time. Hang a horseshoe above your door, keep a rabbit's foot in your pocket and follow superstitions freons modifying listen every Wednesday for the surprising backstories to our most curious beliefs and thrilling tales that illuminate the mystical Irina some of our favorite superstitions.

Owen ONA murder US Owen A. David Miot United Kingdom Atom Waffen Division Hilda Merle spotify Owen A. Middleman meltzer Miot National Socialist Movement Isis meltzer England Roman Richard moult rape Turkey Ethan Meltzer May Twenty Twenty
After Show: Gordon Poppins

Podcast 42

53:13 min | Last month

After Show: Gordon Poppins

"Now launching podcast simulation looting podcast hollow deck in three two one. It is the podcasts or two. After show of our episode where we picked up gordon ramsay and mary poppins on our way to planet punch out which we should get to at some point the end of the year. It's going about as quick as monday. Night football awesome. We'll have it ready in january. We have a special guest on the app. The after show. Gary laura hi hey look alike. But they don't know how no they don't. But i haven't got a reaction to throw it out there right away lee. You need to be nice to lower. Because she had her second a day. No you're not. She had her second shot and she's feeling very sleepy. Yeah let's you're fully vaccinated in two weeks that's when you get your superpowers. Yeah i'm waiting for him. Mine are going to be. Laser is so she's sleepy so it's a normal day but she's like even for extra sleepy than a normal day that possible or about to find out. Yes yes they would say. Well let's help with the sleepiness and let's open up the beer core Do it's the look is not all right. Gordon wanted to try this beer. What was it again. Some sweet beer. That came out of mary poppins. Beer cooler sweets cherry chocolate from mountain walking brewery. It's a bird liner vice. It's a sour. Yeah pretty much well montana. Let's start with lord case. She falls asleep during the episode So yeah i can keep going back to montana one. Let me preface. Was i not a fan of chocolate. And i'm not a fan of cherries. And that i sip was a chocolate cherry sip and the second sip was just as bad. So i'm gonna give it a one if i have to you. It's up to you get to choose now. I mean like. I would not drink this at all at all. If it was the only beer on earth. I would now be sober. Drink this. I did forget to mention base. Our ratings on a six pack one being the worst six being the best. This makes sense to everybody but well known canadian and kissimmee. I'm not gonna. I'm gonna go next. And i actually agree with you. I don't like chocolate chariot all if you'd like chocolate covered cherries and you might actually like this because it tastes exactly like chocolate covered cherry. Which in my opinion is disgusting. I didn't think it was super salary. Is that a word salary. Sour now sour full sour. Look a walking the source full of sourness. But i didn't enjoy it just because of the cherry chocolate combination. I'm also going to give it a one. Yeah let's not sabrina. I'm a fan of chocolate cherries. And i'm not a fan of the beer bouquet. The i. I didn't really get a whole lot of cherry. I got more chocolate and a lot of chocolate. Which is surprising because it's so pink. I don't think chocolate alcohol really mix well except for maybe like elise or something but like wine and beer doesn't go through this every time when we talk about stoute's and how we like chocolate stout down everybody but lauren. This room like chocolates doubts shoveling. Stoute's else chocolate like a coffee. Chocolate stout is like our ideal drink for a stout. Yeah i guess so. Now that we had the other day was really a bourbon barrel as one. I know we only had one more we could have shared with. Sabrina drank. it probably wouldn't have liked it anyway. Let's be honest. Probably not probably would have liked it about as much as i like this beer which is not so. It's probably wouldn't. Did you go secretly drink trying to be heard seriously. We don't have it anymore. Coconut cream pie. If you do good lord and get to try that one lors elsevier get on that one coconut did you give a rating before we got unattainable one. Okay beer master. He's swishing. it's okay. I've had a chocolate covered cherry sour and this not nearly as good as that one that i had before this one. It's it's not bad. It's got good flavor to it. You get the chocolate either cherry and there is the slight bit of nila in there. I feel like to balance them out. Overall. it's a smooth sour. It says 'berliner wife but it's total sour I'm going to give it a three because it's a balanced beer for what it is. It's not the greatest. It's not the best but it's not bad. Well you're in luck because between his glasses because nope but between these four glasses only two beers that means you're good to drink at all your just opened a high low debt doesn't count towards your three beers this one. It does not doesn't now. i can't have it. Laura could be sick nope she's not fully vaccinated for two weeks well while we're discussing that. Why don't we get into some gordon. Ramsay and mary poppins facts. Mary poppins fix to. Yeah but i have the right all right. I have to read the gordon ramsay facts. I mean i felt it was fitting. We divided it up well. I just handed him. Gordon ramsay facts. Because i thought that there was only one person that we were just going to alternate every other. What i listen dammit. He said mary. Poppins and gordon ramsay facts and i delivered when we start with some gordon. Ramsay facts. He was born in johnstown scotland and raised in stretford up. I've avon avon because avon's calling england. He founded his global restaurant group. Gordon ramsay restaurants. Wow that took a lot of thinking in one thousand nine hundred ninety seven. I know what i was doing. Ninety seven a yeah. You were a senior in high school. No jackass. I was eighth grader. Starting freshman year of high school high school. We're getting a gordon. Ramsay restaurant here in orlando. We are a quick service. Gets quick what i don't care. Fish and chips. I'll be there those a call kipper youth to call chip. Parise actually be chipper to work. There just never be in the restaurant since when they called chipper. He's i don't know it sounded good. I was going just went along with it. You still question does. Have we ever lied to you. Chris every day that's not true. Don't talk to you drunk. She's drunk on pfizer. Or as my daughter calls pa- pfizer. Madonna it with madonna during that you got there and he doesn't even know what she has no idea. I didn't see it either. I don't know really what they what they put in my arm and then there was a baby so the other gordon ramsay restaurant they know about in the united states is also quick service. It's burger joint. So i'm wondering if there's a like a full service ramsey restaurants somewhere here in the united states or a well. There's not to be this the u. Red rock yeah and nevada. Red rock nevada had one at that resort. la had one to new york had one And vegas has got hell's kitchen one. Yeah okay so the night searching the names of places at me yes. We show names places. We shouted locations louis. California new york can't places in a huey lewis saw trouble but i also think a bunch of them have also closed down to yeah because like he does not he no not even a covert like through some are but he just doesn't renew his lease. Okay it's like a pop up restaurant for the lease will the hell's kitchen one probably closed. Because they never made any money. 'cause they always shut it down in the middle service. I mean as make the risotto. I'd be really mad if they didn't shut it down in the middle of service. Actually this is coming from the guy who wants told me he was gonna make Cranberry chutney and then went to the store and both sauce. And it's the best cranberry salsa you've ever had isn't it no yes it is. It was too mild. He can't handle the spice stage. The heartburn publix makes the best thing. Cranberry chutney out there. I look forward to that every year. I just eat it out of the package. I know so did the rest of us because you didn't give us any silverware plates. Was that thanksgiving. I'll do we celebrate thanksgiving. This year i did. We liberated this year yet. This year i was thinking maybe a no over tall together. Yeah and celebrate maybe november. Who knows cova took away all the months. I don't know this could be november right now. I have no idea now. We did not skip halloween. I would know we skipped halloween and some of us kept one job to keep us on track and like having nineteen of them. Yeah and some of us just didn't get a job but are still too busy to show up for the show. in fact. Did you know that after rising. The fame on the british television series boiling point nine hundred ninety nine ramsey become one of the best known and most influential chefs in the uk by two thousand and four. I don't know show boiling point. Yeah boiling point. Wesley snipes hosted it in tipperary was living over there so he didn't have to pay taxes here. I take it. This is a cooking show. Sabrina are you familiar with it. Do you act like you. Were you acting like everyone to know the show. Yeah i mean it's gordon. Ramsay does boiling point. It was all pasta. He puts a bread on the side of a person's face and calls him an idiot sandwich. Donkey sandwich an idiot sandwich. Okay no he asks. They made pasta on this show. Water is boiling and all that. That's why make sure that's how they differ was boiling by how mad gordon ramsay got right. Next fact andrew. The perfect al dente pasta pilots face neck. No water needed on. Ramsay was appointed officer of the order of the british empire. The ob by queen elizabeth the second in the two thousand six new year honours list for services to the hospitality industry guy pierre. He got the following year. I only understood about. that's right. Play down here guy fieri a lot of crap. I like guy fieri just because you like burgers and cheese sticks. I do burs chan guy get the chicken right now. I'm not a big fan of his restaurant at disney springs but the sauces are really good. Are you upset because the chicken has better hair than you on the sign. There's not a lot of people that have better here than me. Ooh john is john stamos. And then it's me eugene. Levy above you know the difference between his hairline and his eyebrows here in gray and his eyebrows. Aren't i mean would have given you elvis and that's it Which was the last time chris changed. His hairstyle was when elvis died. If it works it works. Oh sure. John stamos changes hairstyle. Either he just cut. It shorter really good looking to compare in my face to john. I know perr. He's more dave cool. Who's gonna say moore's very upset very angry right now isn't it. Yeah so they can't go to the movie theater right next. Fact in two thousand and twenty four listed his earnings at seventy million for the previous twelve months and rate him the nineteenth celebrity in the world nineteenth only nineteen. Well yeah that's because the rock is number one since he does everything. Yeah i better here than the rock. The rock doesn't have hair. Yeah it looks better on more hair on your head than the rock. Does his entire body true story. You're welcome it's okay. It's okay welcome. He shaved because that's the best way you can smell with the rockets cooking. God he shaved because he was balding. And that's the best way to handle that. Some of us don't have to shave off our hair because we're not balding. Is that what you shave your face for so long shaved my face. Yeah because to hide the grey. Oh is that was that was. Was that supposed to be some sort of attack. That failed miserably. No no no ages of gordon ramsay fix. I didn't see you had to read them all. You don't have to read them all but listen experts. Start picking my own pick. Pick a good one. June fourteenth two thousand seventeen ramsey set a new guinness world record for the fastest time to fillet a ten pound fish. Achieving record in one minute and five seconds august sixteenth. Twenty seventeen ramsey set a guinness world record for the longest pasta sheet rolled in sixty seconds which measured one point. Four or five meters said. Pick a good one. It was an amazing chris. How long you like. How sort of time can you compound fish. I the play ten pound fish. But i have better hair than gordon. Ramsay the same air Would you fly all these insults gordon. Ramsay of he's sitting in this chair because he's awesome would never fly insulted. Gordon ramsay. I would hope to get a good meal. I would probably fly them. Just you know well. He can be scary so but if you put a beard on magana leagues eddie griffin doors and in may two thousand eight. He opened his first restaurant in the western. Us in the london west. Hollywood hotel formerly the bel age hotel on the sunset strip in los angeles. The contract expired in twenty-fifty closing the restaurant. Maybe courtesan renew the contract. He's like we're done. We know what the restaurant served or the name of it or of maybe. That's what keeps his restaurants exciting. Yeah you're like. Oh i've got to eat here before it closed. You put limited edition on anything. Everybody wants it. that's true. This is limited edition. I usually buy it. Yeah we know by the beer. No i just know that whenever says limited edition. That's why he's always in line for the mcrib. If it's if it's temporary thing on a menu probably gravitating towards that. God is true. I don't i don't spill blue plate specials but if chris's in my section did you know that ramsey voices the character bulletin gramercy and big hero six the series the character a chef with a fiery temper is loosely based on him. She let an original name for him. And what movie. No baking mixes. A series of there was a series clearly. Oh you didn't know as didn't know either. I don't know who's in it. Big hero six ira are they. Yeah yeah oh you. Hundred percent sure about Positive leaving got alan to come back and voiced the character allen tunic was big hero six He's like the john ratzenberger of the disney movies. Yeah yeah yeah. Do you think john ratzenberger could voice. Hey hey i think not i. I love all the dimensions he gave the. Hey hey it's his breakout break really. I liked him more as k. Two so rogue wine him is shade botched. Just throw the insults out there. The entire time talking about bringing firefly back but he's dead he's dead so i guess he can't come back but as a new show's awesome had our readers clean their spears powder. River's clean their spears. I don't remember. They put him through the wash. Is that a line from the show. Now that's a really in bad taste joke from this show. Okay but are you like a plastic bag filled with gasoline khalif unit. Watch the show. Yes all episodes where they're like fifteen. Yeah and then the movie. Yeah i have all of them at home. Yeah yeah i didn't take. The movie held up to the guy i didn't. I'm not having this argument as much as the show. Nathan fillion does no wrong. I like these in philly. I watch his new show. The rookie doesn't raw. Can't wait till we do. The nathan fillion episode. See you in four years right next. Gordon ramsay john's several other celebrity chefs in two thousand seven in the two thousand ten series. The big fish fight where he along with fellow chef jamie oliver and a few other spent time on a trawler to raise awareness about the discarding of hundreds of thousands of sea fish. I didn't see that it was probably fox. Got cancelled after a week. Sounds stinky one. More gordon ramsay take us out with a bang away. A nice juicy unfished related gordon ramsay. In two thousand eight ramsey was in iceland's westman islands. Filming a puffins huntin segment. When he lost his footing and fell during a descent often eighty five foot. Cliff landed in the icy water below. He said a thought. I was gonna. He reached the surface of the water by removing his heavy. Boots and waterproof clothing is still crew who rescued ramsey by throwing him. A rope reported that he was submerged for at least forty. Five seconds during the ordeal here remembers how he felt. I was panicking in my lungs with dealing with water. When i got to the top after getting my boots off. I was dazed in. My head was totally massive. Why chris ego on the fact. She was on a hunting addition. Yes that's why read it because it's punching segment. Yeah the bird. It looks like a cross between a toucan and a penguin. Yeah yeah aren't those what the porguese had a cover up. Yes he's opening a new cookery. School called the gordon ramsay academy and it's expected to win in early twenty twenty one. People hunt puffiness. Obviously there are loosely to the eat. Puffins ans why not. The bird probably tastes just like a pork or chicken. Which you guys are guests. And you don't have the actual facts on that backs on it. No should i have. Fax probably type out. These fishbowl facts. We were only looking for facts about gordon. Ramsay and mary poppins all right. We'll keep it up and we're having puffing for thanksgiving this year. That's fine you're going to have to buy a lot of them. They're like as big as a cornishman. Yep i can't imagine they're very hard to hunt twice. Why do they fly and swim. Puffiness fly yeah. 'cause ping was don't fly. No elephants fly never seen in fly. I've seen that. I've heard a rubber band. We are not going into that racist segment gumbo right now. Because i've no no trouble so Polka-dot railroad tie all right. Let's do some. Mary poppins facts. She was an evil. Which i like me. You didn't like those really good. I don't like julie andrews she's overrated abbott. Dick van dyke dick van dyke has played the same character for seventy years in Even diagnosis murder was him on the dick van dyke show and it's amazing but a lot of actors are like that lee tom cruise alone. If you find something you're good at stick to it. Okay i mean yeah. It's like acdc making music and once again. I will still go and buy the record deal. Sound just like the last day. Cdc record showed more growth than acdc. I'm fine with acdc songs. Like i'm thrilled. When i have no idea which one is playing for the first three minutes until they started singing that i realized it was seeing. That's why you like this show so much. No jokes over and over you think. Kevin hart has range when he's with the rock because he has to yell up to them to everybody with iraq. Kevin hart has range because he has to play the straight man in comedy. The rock is the slapstick guy. The one you can laugh at. Have you watched central intelligence. I've seen central intelligence office knocking on kevin hart. Because i like kevin hart. But i'm saying a lot of actors do the same thing in every movie and it works the rock. How much rain do you think the rock house infinite amount of range and that's just what his eyebrows that's exactly right. He tells a story with the eyebrow his eyebrows to win the academy award for greatest eyebrow ever. I also liked the rock me rock movie. But he's the rock and every movie every movie he's the rock One movie he was now exactly was just rock with a hook. They animated rock yes. Lapatin layer. He looked like a massive. I don't know the all the hair. I let's go back a bit. How about jimmy. Stewart stewart married change jimmy stewart every movie frank sinatra sinatra in every movie frank sinatra was amazing as frank sinatra in every movie. Yeah doesn't matter frank. Sinatra's amazing okay. I'm just saying right barry. Pop krista vase is the same in every episode. I in the same area. Sometimes these horse. Why play it like every horse. You've ever heard all right. So does he push back to production of mary. Poppins julie andrews could play the leading role the extra swizz pregnant when disney offered her the role but he andrews to play. Mary poppins so badly that it spawned filming for her. Yeah good choice. Even though jail hates the movie. that's fine. They're all about movie. That's all right. I was gonna say let's see Originally considered angela. Lansbury mary martin and bette davis for the role of mary. Poppins knobs and broomsticks. Oh i love. Angela lansbury sticks. That's a good movie age of not believing. I think it's better than mary. Poppins do you really overrated. I haven't seen in a long time. Both of them equally. Sorry i was in my head. I was playing through the. What is the one song at the end where she makes all of the clothes. Get up and dance move. Oh yes the chant You don't have to kid's bedrooms and broomsticks. Aren't they the same kids in bed and was in broomsticks like the same actors as mary poppins now now. The two that were in. Mary poppins in the nine lives of thomas sina and no mobile every british kid in that time. Look the same yeah They all had the round face and they all all wanted more porridge. How the pudding until the meat Please saw me. I have some. I worked on the uk now The word super. Calo reggie listrik. Expeditious was added to the oxford english dictionary with the definition. Extraordinarily good wonderful. Can you spell it backwards. I can't because i'm looking at it. Spike you is you can act selects a spell it backwards and she will well. That was a fun fact. That's my mary poppins. Fan andrews had an accident while filming a flying sequence. Andrews said that she almost got hurt filming her final flying scene in. Mary poppins according to the actress. She was up in a harness after filming. The stunt where she felt a rope slipped before she plummeted to the stage. She wasn't hurt during the fall. Unless you're gone which case he feels it would have been better if she would have just gotten her knowing visual ever following. That was kind of funny so so that fact was that she almost fell but she didn't know she foul but she didn't get hurt. Okay yeah unlike me who falls constantly is constantly getting hurt. Yes by and that's never said. Why are we doing pretty back rush. But you weren't filming a flying seat when you fell. I was just everyday yeah He felt getting the mail the other day true. You know that scene in the dick van dyke show where he trips over the footstool. Yeah that's kris with no footstool with no foot. I'm chevy chase plane. Chevy support speaking of people. That are funny fletcher's funny Mary poppins was andrew's first film that was released in theaters. Although she had appeared in tv movies and on shows she voiced a character as an animated film. mary poppins was andrew's first. Major live action movie. What's the golf movie. And we're back to chevy chase. That was funny shadow. 'cause bill murray guess because the bill murray and the dancing gopher bill murray's funnier than chevy chase but chevy chase was funny in that movie. Could you picture chevy chase in. What about bob. No no of course not chevy chase in zombie land. No woody harrelson would not have been excited to meet chevy chase. You're preaching to the choir here depth to the bus. You took my agreement with you and then you try to go and prove me wrong. No no i'm not. I'm not i'm just pointing out facts. I want up you in the whole series of community. Chevy chase's only funny in one episode. So there you go now. I'm gonna have to try and figure out what episode. We're talking about one where they played. Dnd oh yeah. He has no idea what you're talking about. No i do. I do watch that whole show. But he has no idea right now. What you see is because that's because that's one of the more famous episodes of community and donald glover's great. It's a great show until donald glover leaves. When dog lover leaves. It goes way down hill but watch it up until Bed in the morning. Mary poppins disney originally put in a bid. For film rance to travers. Trevor's novel. Mary poppins in the early nineteen forties but it took twenty years for the company to convince the author to accept according to smithsonian magazine. Because they had to bring in. Tom hanks to finally carousel. Travers has been open about our issues with disney. A deputation of mary poppins being part of several meetings with disney creators. Trevor said she never approved of the final version of the mary poppins film although disney followed her request not to make the movie entirely animated try later also said she wanted the animation sequence in the film to be removed but that she was told it was too late to do so according to the new yorker trevor's cried while watching the premiere of the movie. Unfortunately they weren't tears of joy. How can that be. I don't understand that. She does story. The dancing penguin does not have dancing penguins in the book. No don't you aren't wasn't even in the book. No and the pressure said that mary poppins was mean. Yeah yeah because he was. Yeah well. I got that. From the movie. Mary poppins was actually if you've ever seen Oh what is the name of the other net nanny. Mcphee that tell. Mary poppins was she like. She was closer to that like she was not not by the same actress. No it's not danny mcphee and mary and P l travers. yesterday's yes satis. okay. I thought you mary poppins. What are you talking about any music in it. Shit my any singing in the in the movie. Although those original. Mary poppins just her and the two kids is that all. It's in the book. No well the funny thing is is that she turns into sugar on some at the end. Yes exactly The the broadway. Mary poppins was actually closer to the books. And how that went and before. Her death in nineteen ninety-six travers allowed the creation of the mary poppins stage production produced by sir cameron mackintosh. Mary poppins ran on broadway. Yep same one. He tastes delicious. Mary poppins on broadway from two thousand and four to two thousand and six and it was nominated for seven tony awards. It ended up taking home the award for best scenic design of a musical but the broadway musical is actually closer related to how the books went. I'm never interested in the disney musicals. Yet they all win awards and all do really well last for a long time not frozen well and not tarzan either. Yeah coming in the like we saw lion king the musical we saw off so you went to a high school for radiation. We sell it here. Yeah we sold in vegas and they usually. It was incredible. Yeah but it was. His exact same story has seen a thousand times. So you went to vegas and went and watched the lion king on stage was at least the cirque du soleil version. Now i mean it was wasn't a true vegas show there was. There's no naked woman in it. It was worth seeing because like the puppetry was incredible and wilder be seen Was amazing but they didn't bring anything new to the table. Much like one neighbor did in the movie have at the the table. They brought seth rogan to be more inappropriate as bloomberg. Yeah i mean. it's the same. When they read they read in the movie. It's the same thing. Yeah that's the rematch. Wasn't even worth watching. Whoa dow glover was simba going. That movie was not the only thing going for that movie was donald. Glover could save that. That's why i went to see. It was just as you how donald glover would do as simple. I like to latin. I'm broadway. yep i never saw that on broadway should have. It was really good. I thought that one with a good smith version was good. I liked the will smith version. That i thought he did a really good job. That's really big shoes to fill. Yeah and he. But i liked that. He's just like i'm going to do the opposite of robin williams and because he's he knew i can't. That's the smart way to do it. Like if he would have attempted to to redo robin williams wouldn't've worked out so now know. I thought he did really good. I was i re. That's one of the live action ones. I do live from disney. Yeah so david tomlinson who played mr banks was also. The voice of mary poppins talking umbrella. I thought they sounded similar. Yeah he's also the voice of my talking umbrella you have one i know. Doesn't everybody umbrella. I want my umbrella collection. Who has has an umbrella collection. You know what else she clicks. She collects backpacks. I need backpack tiny backpacks yes to stick like a cell phone have to wear it on your back and she collects tumblers. Do i have an obsession with tumbler. I'm just laughing at the tiny backpack out of visual product of the nineties. I mean so. It should be hanging from her hip for offer Belt loop strange fact. She can't stick one of her tumblers in our tiny backpack the tumblers or too big. Oh i know. I've seen our lockers at work. She has to have like her own locker for her. Tumbler be other locker. She has for the tiny backpack and the gummy bears. These damn lounge flies. I'll tell you there. Some of them are really cool looking but people get obsessed. I saw tiktok today where the lady sold all of her lounge flies wide money. You can get for those. I know i have. I have a couple in my possession that they no longer make. That are going for a pretty penny while. She's in protest of disney. For so. I don't know why i don't remember why. She probably the tattoos. I but she was like instead of cancelling or call into cancel disney. I'm just so my personal disney stuff. So i'm canceling it for myself. I don't expect you guys to cancel it. Well that's cool. yeah. I mean that's what you should do crank but i mean in all fairness i feel that is a very corporate way of dealing with things. Because she's making money off of them right. Yeah but lounge fly does do other properties besides disney. So there's no tell them what she sold but what is. I wasn't really paying attention to it until she said lounge flies. I sold all my lounge flies. Laura i'll sell all my lounge flies when you sell your pops who they could buy another house with that at her. I don't think you should have to sell your lounge flies. I just as a collectible. It's just an unusual collectible much like the tumblers because neither one of those who are useful. Like your pops. I know my the things. I collect keeps me dry in. The rain allows me to have beverages any time of day and it keeps them cold for twenty four hours just because now like eight or for eighty cool. Don't put my tumblers. But that's a yeti wear two at the most at the at a time. Okay you wear to on the front. Why would i need aware to. That's ridiculous They're tiny lesson i have. I have a lounge fly for every occasion. She does and i'm trying to figure out a way to display them because they are display. -able like this is not like a backpack. It's a really cool looking backpack. There's a lot of shells and here. We put him on notice not their full out like i said. There's a lot of shelves here. We can put the money next. Mary poppins at the beginning of the film some of the nannies waiting in line to apply for the nanny position. We're actually stuntman and drag. Oh i knew that back back. To where like shakespearian days were only men could play our parts. No no no no female stunt men like when the wind comes in and they get blown away and You know they kill the nannies dump man right so i had guys who got blown away because they were properly trained how to roll talking roll. We'll lose female stuntman now. Okay laura navy stunt women stump persons you don't know the pronouns but their female stunt women are stuntman than they would be not limited could be day stunt persons or them start person so you need to be more sensitive and click myself anyways next back to julie. Andrews agreed to make the film after she was rejected. For the role of eliza doolittle in the film version of my fair lady to its she had played on broadway and created the role on broadway and both the west end in london. Hthe like frank welker getting told he wasn't the right voice for matron in transformers when he originated the voice. Yep it's exactly like that. Just like that and think that julie anders would have been the caliber of. I don't have to audition. well remember. Mary poppins was her like that. In the sixties that came out for sound of music. Yeah she had filmed. Mary poppins before sending music because while she was on the set for santa music she actually used to sing the songs from mary. Poppins to the kids ochre. I don't know i don't know the time line. I mean clearly. We're like back to back years. It was like sixty one and sixty two came out before. Sobe yeah get. That was a joke urine sob. I saw clinton early andries meeting the actual von trapp leading. Oh yeah maria maria yes and she was like so how did i do. And she's like well you don't know how to yodel ha so she had to teach julie andrews having yodel. Oh i love it. Love it The same that was used for mary poppins was the same set and princess diaries and it was re it was later. Renamed the julie andrews except renamed away. At least she knew where she was going on the set while she was in the movie no It took the took. The sherman brothers robert and richard sherman It took them two and a half years to write the music for the film But they were also writing and they were completely unaware that the studio did not actually have the rights to the book so they were writing the music and they thought everything was cool and then they found out later than just kidding. We didn't even have the rights but we totally had you do it because we had faith well in saving. Mr banks only took two hours right. The music yeah. They added that portion. Yeah oh the step in time dance sequence was originally stated to be nine minutes long but the director tried to cut it down to To to after fearing it was too long. When walt disney found out he actually decided to add more elements to the sequence and extended fourteen minutes. Now it's fourteen minutes in move. It's fourteen minutes movie. Yeah i remember it being really long the member for fifteen minutes to wash them do one second time step time. It's amazing you can go to the bathroom during that ed comeback at. It's just right where you left off. That's true that's true now that i think about it. Yeah it's still not as long as two chitty bang bang. The walking stick dances sin. Chitty chitty bang bang where they had the guy that like kids. Yes yeah the creepy dude Creepy pedophile dude. Yep that's the one okay. I remember liking it as a kid and then like a couple of years ago. I like joslin. Sit down my youngest. Sit down and watch t chitty bang bang. It's an old movie really good and it's not good not a good movie. I think they changed it. I thoroughly injuries. And you weren't high anymore. Whatever it's like movies on movie nothing happens. It has an intermission. That's not true. They make it has an intermission. It has an intermission. They make toot sweets. They should not have an intermission in a movie like that. This isn't the ten commandments. This isn't titanic or gone with the wind. Now it's chitty chitty bang bang and trust me. You need the intermission. can you believe the child catcher. Hotak kid oh. I need to go movie chitty. Chitty i love you. It's a michael scott film. Dick vendex notorious. Cockney accent was partially to blame on his irish vocal coach. Pat o'malley who according to him didn't do an accent. Any better than i did. So i could play you pretty much know. By the time of the film's star. Studded premiere relations between peeled travers and walt disney studios. Were so frosty that. She wasn't even invited. She had to ask disney per for permission to attend. It sounds like she's just real difficult to work with. However travis is a state granted disney the rights to produce the mary poppins sequel under the stipulation that they treat them material carefully and he female author. That has two letters. First name is difficult to work with. Jk that's a fast fact. Now right excellent. Dean koontz wouldn't be this difficult to deal with. He's not a female author. He just be happy that somebody's finally making one of his movies books into a movie. He's had he's always like apply cutler he's had a couple books into movies Do you remember any of them. Yeah they was. Yeah exactly. there was mr murder. I had stephen. Baldwin you can just stop there. And there was one with nick cage. I can't remember. Of course he remembers nucleus in early work by negating. Who's the better over actor. Nicolas cage or william shatner nicholas cage. Kiana reason there were. Oh jeez the biggest under actor. I love though there's another one that doesn't have much range but would watch kiana reeves movie. Yeah yeah every john wick. Movie has been the same. You know who's made the same movie for the past like ten fifteen years samuel jackson liam neeson. Yeah that's not true. All yet is he played a sensitive dad. Yeah and lord. That was twenty years ago. She's been playing. What was the movie with this. Set of skills taking he ever since taken. He's the same character attacking on a train or taken in a plane or taken in a snow bank. It's it's all taken all over and over again and yet somehow i'm still going to see all these movies still watch. You know who makes great movies. Jason statham he did the coen brothers movie and that was different jason state them no liam nielsen. I watched to movie ballot of something. Buster scruggs. yeah he wasn't. That didn't watch that one. One was a kids movie. That was love actually. Now with jason's jason was love. Actually now he should've been food. All the ladies were left with him. Jason nathanson actual professional diver. Yeah i saw the meg no like he like olympic style diving. You wanna get jail really mad. Tell how bad the may not a bad move everything you expect it to be. He just had high expectations. I don't know why you would have high expectations for a movie. Called the meg. Well here's they're making a sequel to wait. Here's my problem with the meg. Every single problem every single one. It was up to jason statham to solve. Even though rainn wilson came in as an expert but only an expert. He was a millionaire. He just turned money at it. I thought he was like some sort of expert. Now remember but it was. It was exactly why it was an expert on water. It was jason statesman diving into the water for fifteen minutes and swimming around getting out and then diving back in and then getting out and diving back in and getting out. That's all the movie yet to address the problem with this hobson show. How's shaw's a great movie. It actually stars three of my favorite people in it. Jason stefa the rock and address elba my youngest daughter mo away from it being the greatest movie ever made of my youngest daughter loves. She does not. Oh my goodness now. If they made a sequel odds. And i'd go see that we went on a cruise and laura got sick. Did you want to know. Listen to this war got sick so she was in the room. Most of the time. I remember this cruise that december yes and movies number two thousand and eighteen. They showed hobson. Shaw like four times every day. And it's what we would do. We'd go see hobson shawl and my youngest daughter loved every single and then we go back to the room on the tv. Guess what was playing. I tell you in the room. They rotate between hobson shah and allowed live action. I would fall asleep during principally and wake up during a car chase scene. It was really amazing. I have no idea what's happening. Maybe that's why. I don't like the aladdin live-action maybe it makes no sense. Where did these cars come from. Ladan stole them duh. He's a thief. I will tell you. Hobson shawl takes the fast and furious and kind of tweaks. It kind of gets you off. I mean just gets me on that again. They have the ridiculous car stuff. But it's it's different and it will get you off so often gets you off the path of fast and furious the fast and furious or just gets you off. Whatever you if you're into the first three but it's because that's all it takes six. That's a fact. I can't wait to watch the new horror version of fast and furious. What's that the new one. That's coming out. did you not see the villain. No oh yeah you can't see him. Jay really femi. Os john cena. Yeah jail told me that. John cena was actually an every fast and the furious movie just couldn't see him. I'm going to stand by this if they don't do a montage of how he was in the background. Overseeing everything like manipulating everything. That's happened over the past nine movies. They truly missed out because they'd be like oh you didn't see me. There really do do is that would get you off. No no but i will sit there and laugh hysterically the entire time he'd probably would. Yeah now jason momoa oliver watching shawn well on that note. Join us as we hopefully reach planet punch out next time that we'll talk about to. Yeah see see the first one. Yeah i saw the first one rs waiting for your seat. Knowing that. I was going to be like i watched that with you totally. Watch our that. You're not missing any. Don't you talk about black panther under the sea that way chris. Don't talk about jason. Momoa that way spectacle man to jump into the water and do stuff. Every fifteen minutes over jason tatum. So jason tatum. Jason stay goodness well. Christopher devos a beer. Jas jason tatum. And i'm laura by stay fresh cheese bags catch on the gun. That's about as much range as he has to podcasts. Forty two is performed by christopher devos jail. Tros lord vaas and sabrina pierre. All celebrity voices are impersonated poorly in this particular episode. All information given or may not be true. Sound design by forty two inc and is reported in the podcast forty two studios logo by q. Handa find coupon on facebook for commissions dis fact frame oh by more music by ramo on craigslist dot net. Podcast forty two is a proud member of the pod. Smith this has been a transmission of the pod fixed network for more about this show and other great podvig programs go to fix network dot com greetings. I am soft chagrin podcast guru and president of the fixed network since revealing myself as the puppeteer podvig. I felt the need to be more hands on with the day to day operations therefore it every thursday i will be opening the podvig archives an absolute museum for your ears and best of all it is curated by none other than myself saw chagrin and no one else will be blowing the dust off my personally. Hand pressed vinyl. Copies of original airings of classic pod fixed network episodes uploading them to the satellites and then rebroadcasting them to the masses. Sure it's a lot of extra work but one thing i've learned over the years is that digital media converted. 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LADS#209 - NEW YEAR NEW LADS

Loud Americans Discussing Soccer

53:24 min | 1 year ago

LADS#209 - NEW YEAR NEW LADS

"You know you this thing of a Competitor Morten Frazier and we are allowed. Americans Americans discussing soccer better known as labs ads. Today is Wednesday January eighth twenty twenty mar are in happy New Year Buddy first podcast at the new year new me baby ancient proverbs. We made it baby. Oh man who who would think who would have thought we would have made it this far doing this show not me Paul. Rudd not me So Martin I you know we have carol bow and FA Cup to talk about. But I really don't give a shit and I guess you really don't because what happened to Manchester United today but I really could not give a shit about talking about the Caravelle Cup besides is like Everton losing to an under twelve side that Liverpool put out everything cannot be Everton. What's everything can't be Liverpool for Shit? No matter what side is put out there and honestly I just don't i. Is it like it used to be like the arsenal. Fa Cup trophy and it used to mean a little bit the past couple of years but even like I feel like the last time mattered was when Arsenal beat Chelsea against Antonio Conte when it felt like they had no shot of winning it. Do these do you even care about these competitions anymore. We've said this for years Care About Cup is is quite genuinely worthless like imagine just a you should competition engineered to give more TV time depression and there you go. It's it's the Care Belco. I mean there is really zero reason to the have a third Competitive tournament in the program. Right now it just doesn't make sense. I know every single other the league does it. But it's it's really stupid and for all these coaches I mean clopping Marino especially complaining about Just the insane schedule that Soccer soccer players have especially over the Christmas break I have a great idea instead of having a little winter break for the soccer players instead of Shortening the season. Just get rid of the Caravelle Cup. Nobody gives a fuck about it. the FA Cup. Yeah I mean I mean FA Cup. Yeah cool I guess it has some history but the fact of the matter is no one really gives a shit about the FA company more. I mean Silverware silverware but since arsenal has just dominated aided that that competition in recent history and like you said that Arsenal Chelsea game and we watched that in a bar in Philly I mean that was bad ass and then since then you feel like I've been on a slide I just have cared less unless unless about Method especially with the likes of city city just winning all both years. So Oh it's all you know. Once again a wordless competition so Kept I think we said it before we started podcasting. Don't really WanNa talk about it. It's not exciting exciting I. It's not that fun Martin. US talking about it is about is about as much of a waste of time as them playing it. I feel as though that you know the NFL's trying to fix overtime. Rules were fixing the long premier league season right. Now get rid of the League Cup. It's doesn't matter anymore. There's not not going to be some Cinderella Story. Just how top heavy the Premier League is. Can we just can we just get rid of it. I'm just you know it's just not entertaining. Meaning I mean KLOPP literally put out. I think that was for the FA Cup right against Everton under was that care about. I don't even know I don't care I don't care. They're always he's mid week while I'm working. I can't watch them. And when I do catch the highlights on my sick I got to watch that new What's it called the new Asian Guy that Liverpool God Min the momentum? I don't know his name. I already sick I watched this highlights. He was sick I it's like some players some really six starts I really I don't I don't care I don't I don't and I think you're exactly right. No winter breaks. Just give us what we want. Get rid of that and like to less international breaks and I think we fixed world soccer especially in Premier Li Kevin. We can fix everything like if we put our minds to it and submit this shit too fica. Any smart person would just accept these changes and be like Yo. These two drunk idiots are right. We don't need another worthless competition. Let's get rid of. It's the same with V. A. R. if there was a smart person in that room and they just look at the evidence locale shouted as a smart person would just get rid of it but there's no smart people in footballing organizations apparent but I will say About the whole long seasons and coming up with some ideas is to shorten the season in short the fatigue for the players. I I really don't give a shit about their fatigue. I want to watch as much soccer as possible. So has had the longer seasons. You know just just keep it a year round thing. That's all I care about. Let me watch as much soccer as possible and I know these competitions. Fa Cup and and the League Cup which is now known as the Care About Cup or Pretty Shite Are Starting to get more worthless. But soccer's falcons soccer. So so I'M GONNA turn it on. I watch my mind lose. I'm GonNa Watch my team draw so I'm okay with not talking about it but still watching Martin. Let me propose something to you and this has. It's been bothering me for some time. Okay so two weeks No this is actually. I've never brought this up to you but this has been something sitting just nestling in the back of my mind and I say simmering simmering. This might be a heartache. But I hate the thirty eight game season because I hate that. It's a weird even like I wish it was forty like you know why it's it's thirty eight. I know Sikwan eighteen and you can't play each other. You can't play yourselves twice. You'd be sick if you good player reserve team. And they're they're goes forty games this season but you know maths. Let's just double the season and seeing the way all right listen to me. I don't give a shit about math. What I'm saying? Is We make the season thirty eight. Plus thirty eight seventy six okay. So we make the season seventy six and just get rid of the FA Cup up Caravel Cup and just replace it with more premier league. I'm yeah I'm one hundred percent down with that or or make forty and you just put your major arrival twice or one one more game at home in a way or you bring in twenty one teams and there you go. You're at forty teens or forty games. I- auctions options to fix that. I'm you know I'm just brainstorming. Here I might be an idiot which I am but I'm coming up with ideas. I don't want I wanNA smarty idiot Joe Joe Schmo homes the guy if you come up with something okay anyway so that was talking. Fa Cup and Care About Cup They happened they're going to continue to happen And Yeah I mean is there any major highlights from them. I know Man City men you played today. There's there's the whole stat that Bernardo Silva has more goals than Jesse lingered in the past two seasons then combined or something at Old Trafford. Now there's some saccone around more Jesse lingard which I'm sure you're absolutely loving about misselling guard and the only other major story I saw was the Liverpool Everton game everything else. I our Arsenal beat Leeds. Sick Nice Nice Nelson cool I I really like in our data are sick. That's been nice yet. Dude ARTETA's sick. I mean like we I Kinda Talk Shit on him on the spot on is saying that it's just another ex. Explain going back. He if he thinks he learned something from Pepa. Let's push us But the game against Manchester United I think the or so Manchester United Yala Bond And absolutely destroyed that Manchester United team in our data Shirley seems to have soaked in some Pet Guardiola Gordy older tactics through his beautiful head of hair So I'm just waiting for him to shave his head and become the next pet fraud ULA So big up Stewart Arteta for doing this type of turnaround for Arsenal and yet it's been real quick so let's not jump to conclusions but God damn it's a whole lot better than Aw emory's first couple games in charge and then on the flip side of things The really only coup Thing that I saw about the FA Cup this past weekend is Port Vale versus Manchester City. some Dude on Port Vale. Oh Tom talk should about yeah. Yeah fucking Pope Talk Shit about Johnstone said basically I know on the Fourth League Claire. I I know this but if I played Johnstone's ever we cannot bag forty goals this season and then he goes out and scores on Manchester City. The FA Cup carrying the baggage. They'd be the bag. The kids say yes. He talked shit and he backed it up. And one final thing a cheng-kuo during the Imbaba Sally after a deflected goal against Fourth Fourth League side. fucking super cool Weirdo sick you you showed them i. It's my God I can't Ah Legs in Janko but I just I don't get it sometimes like I prefer you. Just get back get the ball. It's let's move on Anyway there Worst some things. I've been meaning this week A big one that I loved Martin was World War Three memes and soccer. So I really don't I I don't know I'm not a smart man and I don't keep up with the news but something's going on in the Middle East and there were some great soccer memes news about US going to world war three Some of them included mean the boys check and Vr to see who got the kill a couple of others included someone tweeting back in two thousand sixteen. When trump got elected that you know it would only make sense if trump started world war three right before for Liverpool is going to win the league and it seems i? Is this man nostradamus. But I feel as though Gary Lineker also added tweet saying that he figured out a way for to stop Liverpool for winning the League it only be Donald trump or something like that. I don't know that much about what's going on but World War. Three names are pretty funny And that's what's the hot ticket going on right now Martin do you have anything to add to this. I I for a whole day of just twitter just being just filled with this and I mean just kind of half laughing knowing what's going on. Yeah I was Unusual Martin Fascist getting more and more pissed more award. Four three means I saw going on and I was posting them. Essentially I mean they're funniest shit my fav- was of of course the Dawn Versus Liverpool's season winning campaign. Like if that happens like odd vote for trump if trump can stop Liverpool from winning winning the League he has my vote. That's that's factor there But I I was just getting pissed off like you were about to. Maybe go into war. Three and overdoing is making means and laughing. Imagine Shit one or more like you. Bunch of fucking Weirdo. I damaged in real life. I think it's like nervous laughing. If we're being honest my cat is trying to jump on my laptop. Get Down Theodore okay. We're good And you know yeah. I think we're just making light of a very serious situation. It's the only way it's a coping. It's it's a coping mechanism for something. I don't really understand. So that's you know. Oh and I post them just trying to be like you know Like forrest Gump. Like things are happening around me and their events and I don't know what's really happening but I'm I'm there I am the forrest. Gump of posting memes Another major headline that hit the news. was was you Martin. I don't know if you heard about this Roma teenager Niccolo Zaino low. I don't know pronouncing that right Nola. Yeah I remember braehead that really sick strike in the Champions League. I think he had a really sick like individual goal but apparently he's been urging his mom to stop posting sexy sexy instagram sell fees. So yikes poor guy did. I can't think of a worse thing to happen to you if you're famous if your mom just jumps on that that fame train and instead of Sullen like cosmetics or or whatever famous MOMS do. I don't know she just posts sexy pictures on instagram. Like if vowed that my mom would be stripped of all technology and sent to a barren wasteland in the desert if I ever played for Roma and my mom started posing sets of pictures on on on instagram. She doesn't even have an instrument thankfully but holy Shit Whore Guy Absolute Fox but Iraq. It Sir you a rock. I know it's so funny because after I like Talked about this and posted this online. So many people are like oh definitely followed. Like they're not currently googling Zia Nola mom yes like one of the top Google searches right now. Poor guy just totally backfired for sure. uh-huh quit soccer. Just become more clues you had a good thing and you've lost it speaking world war three. You just gotTa go zero dark thirty on this and just stays stay out of the social media world for quite some bit Maybe just like spam your mom of bots like make a bunch of fake accounts in like spam and and like trying to get her account blocked. I'm trying to do I'm trying to be. Pr Team for Niccolo right now. what do you. What do you do your mom like Can you not as but there's also weird because he's saying his mom's hot right. ooh Yikes Yikes Yikes I. I mean it's it's real catch twenty two more marriage it is an and the worst thing like this guy is fucking twenty years old so he just must be absolutely mortified. Also my goodness I. Finally they just found some images of her Yeah you post away girl Girl Holy Crap. Honestly I think it's rather sexist of his son not not to you know I encourage all women to do what you know. I very body positive so I think it's actually kind of wrong with him. It's actually not very twenty. Twenty of VIM fucking. He's twenty years old and he ain't even following the rules of twenty twenty. I think them all for yeah so that that was a thing thing God I'm just really like there's not much soccer to talk about until we get to our previews for the weekend which will include the big match? which which is Liverpool Tottenham which? I'm very excited about But let me see what else is going on. Oh how about this Headline so entering into the stadium Cristiano Renaldo had was wearing an ipod shuffle. which didn't know would be news? But Hey ease wearing ten-year-old technology and then went on to score Hatrick Antrix so he's one of the few I posted a memo about this but he's not the only player but he's one of very few players who've scored a hat trick and the premier. Your League La Liga in Syria. I guess Alexis Sanchez is one. I think is Latin as well. What I posted was he was the only player but I was very wrong? Maybe whatever and I was like I'm not taking this down. I don't Shit but Yes but he is one of few players who have scored hat tricks in the Premier League La Liga in Syria. I'm sure he scored a hat trick in the Portuguese league. I don't know though I mean let's let's just take a flashback. Like he's he's. He's wearing an ipod. Shuffle which came out in two thousand nine. I think Rinaldo was peak Rinaldo in two thousand nine. He's just transforming back to the best of the best and You don't get much better than being one of very few To score and the three top leagues in the world. I think we can pretty comfortably say that Syria lally gun the Prim or the top leagues in the world. So fucking huge fucking shout to Ronnie for doing this shit at thirty four years old He's more machine than man at this point. I don't know what he's eating maybe children but he certainly has themselves Martinus and the I don't know man Rinaldo. I'm not as Dr. Yeah God. He's got like a Alex. Guerrero type doctor giving them like crazy Tom Exit. That's it honestly I have. We seen Alex Guerrero. Lately is seen him since the bust up with. Tom Embraced in. You saw what happened in Tom Brady this weekend so I think he's jumped ship. Maybe he's working his magic somewhere else. I don't know why we're another goat. Yeah but oh and show the money. He won the African player of the year. which is the biggest no Duh of all time I guess you said Salah or Maar. RS Bomb Yang. But I mean I feel like Monty Kinda ran away with that reward. Yeah I think that Montas is just. There's a reason that Real Madrid pushing hard to get his his signature in the in the past year. especially in this season that he's clearly been the best on All on Liverpool and one of the best in the primped primped itself. And if you go oh back for the previous three years of the African awards Mohammed Saleh Saudi-omani. NPR murky a bomb young and or Riyadh Moras appear on each one so It got they've got Nailed down to three players. and Luckily they're just God damn good so it's a toughie man it's tough and A huge congrats to him He's a he's just he's just like a force of nature. I'm into his on Real Madrid so I can start rooting for him right now. I am hoping for his demise but you know once he goes to Madrid. I'll be like this guy's pretty sick trade. We're does hazard moved to to dude hazard. Socks Madrid he does and also shuttle th. This is a weird aside. Benza is fucking still very good. I think no talking about Ben Right now. Ben Simmons on fucking terror we kind of like he kind of to get rid of. Yeah right it just needed to get rid of Rinaldo in and reclaim that spotlight and I mean he's he's pushed out their record signing Jovovich this summer. I'm Jovic is barely playing because cream just paying an Angola's left and right and You know for missing out on the World Cup squad in twenty six or twenty seventeen he's bang back with no Rinaldo no-one to really lead this team with exception of Sergio. Ramos Veron Cruz Luga module which Gareth Bale He's stepping stepping up. He's stepped in the fuck up so huge. Shout out to that Frenchie. Yeah Tony Cruz is looking better now. We're a league podcast. No but I just want to give like like just a quick shot out the cream. Benza is did Rinaldo handicap ends Did you hold him. Did did Rinaldo hold him back. Probably yeah probably yeah worth it Okay is there. Is there anything else I feel like this is going to be short show We got a lot more to talk about with our preview and bets for the weekend and I really didn't come prepared for the show so which which is fine But is there anything else that we may be missing Marin before I move into fan questions Yeah I mean I think that one of the kind of not on the pitch stories stories is a statue in Mammo. WHO team has been defaced multiple times since it was for like the Iraqi of time? Yeah Yeah and now. They've so they've cut off his nose. They've sprayed Spray paint on it. And now they've put a rope around it and and just like Saddam Hussein. I'm saying they literally pulled his statue three and again it never leaves us. It's not leaving any time soon. So that that that shit's crazy and If y'all go no the reason behind his childhood club fans protesting him. It's because he bought shares in their rival clump yet taught fucking the shit that goes on Wall Street and stuff. He did that Shit with a robber club. Now they're all for on a fit and you know what I'm on the fan side. You don't do that show. Yeah and he also joined AC Milan so welcome home. I guess I guess that's major news which is kind of a a similar? WanNa just doing desperate moves all over like they're just like they're just a mess and I feel so bad for our good friend Rui at the Red card report. WHO's a massive? He seemed Fan and other lawn fans you might be listening to the show you guys are just doing desperation shit at this point just I feel like just to hold off the fans This club seems to have no direction and I don't think buying a thirty six year olds. Latin is going to do much. I mean I I'd I I but I did not expect him to go to Milan at this point but that just seems to be the state of this club. Bob Yet did I I do think it's a desperation move and I do like the reason that slot and gave for joining as as long as he basically said I've won my trophies of. I've gotten plenty of money. What I want now is a real challenge and You know what he is certainly embedded himself open a Should House we have a situation. So it's going to be old ask a lot and can turn this around Well Martin Mike. My question to you is is Syria retirement league. I mean if we're Nado and he's old retired he's old but he just scored a Hattrick Rebury Florentina I I I always forget about him. I keep thinking he's retired. I keep thinking he's retired at with Aren Robin but I guess not Greenwich He's blinked Fiorentina's WHO gives a shit? Yeah I don't give him but uh with that being said out of the other two leagues that That we haven't mentioned a fucking goons Lita and the French Farmers League cereal all is number three on the list of the top six leagues in the world. So they're right in the middle. Half retirement have competitive the nice low spaghetti sauce of players. As if you will some knocking What new fucking Inaki? Yes are watching Sopranos for the third time. Okay okay Let's move on to fan questions before we do that. We did get a bunch of stickers and I know thirty people like over thirty different people from the facebook book. The instagram twitter The Discord Channel All reached out. gave me your addresses and stuff like that. Send them out. I have not send them out. I'm a piece of Shit Shit. I know that I'm going to do it by the end of this week. I was like. Oh Yeah I'll send them out today. Huge Liar. I'm sorry I just haven't found the time I really still don't know how how to send things by mail so I'm trying to I'm trying to learn. How does how stamps work and so once I figure that out I will send the mail well? Hopefully I'm doing stand up this week. I've to other podcast now. Not Not to Brag but I'm just saying I'm sorry this is my. This is my youtube apology. Logan Paul apology. I'm sorry Logan Paul. Yeah well yeah get into some questions dog. Yeah I I hope he fights Antonio Brown anyway. let's go to fan questions. I fan questions come from our instagram. At lads underscore podcast first question comes from John Seaman. Ninety two he says what's your New Year's resolution. Oh Martin do you have one on in. Do you believe in them. You wouldn't be. I feel like you don't give a fuck about New Year's resolutions no not really My family has a tradition where we eat mashed potatoes black eyed peas and SAUERKRAUT On New Year's so Lucien fucking Ukrainians been weird chip but go on. I don't care I don't care I didn't make a new year's resolution allusion amid myself a January Resolution kind of I I Am Doing Dry January on but stuck with that being said it's it's there's a little astro. There's a caveat there where it's not true dried January. I'm just not buying any liquor beer if it's somehow ends up with me then you know all's fair in Love War I'll drink the shit out of that like Underpin Gangland tonight and and The reason I'm drinking it is because I bought it for my youngest brother on when he was home from college and he forgot it at my house so it's now mine and So kind of doing a half dry January honestly this kind of what else you. It's a financially sound resolution. I guess I yeah. You're just a moot for a month I I I can get behind it My resolution is I think the resolution I came up with was to be less passive because I feel like a lot of people like I'm really like a people pleaser and I try and please everyone wants Johnson. I over plan and say oh I can do this. I'm like no I'm just GONNA chill ow. I'M GONNA go watch Something on netflix aches. No thank you you so I think that was my resolution to be less passive and a pushover and try and like you know. Make more time for me. That's it's GonNa be. That's my new year's resolution so I'm pretty pretty stoked on it but if Martin was like hey we need and this right now I probably yeah sure but Right now okay okay okay. That's that's best for you. Okay all right next question. See Beers. Seven says does Martin at K. Mart Marin Reply K. Mart K. Mart since are they around Shit Dude Avenue K. Mart since the Giraffe in the middle of the store and I used to buy Legos from what was the last time I was at Kmart. But don't work there. Okay no confirmed. I wish I did actually kind of sick because it'd be like kind of like a weird trashy pickup blind and then you'd be like what they still exist and then you're in that's all that's all that's all. He needs to rare job to have honesty like a specialty job. Yeah it's like What's it called the The white great white buffalo of jobs. So it's pretty pretty pretty good next one one Sam June pretty pretty pretty good Sam June two one. Seven says Fuck Paul. Paul GPA. Not a question but I feel like Martin would agree. Yeah man I mean if Y'all been longtime listeners of of the show depend defended Paulie His entire time Manchester United by about a month into the season. I'm just absolutely sick of him and You know he's he's got that whole injury. Excuse I mean let's fucking Grove set boy And he really doesn't offer that much to Manchester United. When he's on the pitch is featured six is times in total this year but he's perfectly fine? Go into Weddings he's perfectly fine dancing with babies and he's perfectly fine doing his bullshit social media Shit Shit so yeah paw-paw can go fucking self right to Real Madrid I think he's a plague to this club and Him and Neymar are the picture. Perfect representation Asian of how shit modern football so. Yeah I'm right there with you. Did Fuck Fuck fuck it. It's a man or gentlemen lad lad That's all we picked last people forget. We're we picked it because of the gender gender neutral that's why we picked it Next question comes from Sweeney Junior. He says one player. You liked each of your teams to buy this January Martin O.. Did I've been shouted dreaming. It saying saying it whispering it than anyone who listen If I had to choose wanted to be Jackie I absolutely love that boy. I mean with his short Shin Guards his fucking bad as hair and then not to mention. His style of play is so energetically creative and beautiful. He he just looked like he's floating with the ball. Always finds the right pass creates a ton of space for his teammates himself. the defenders. It doesn't matter if he's going up against city defenders Liverpool defenders or Shit Club like United Defenders. He's GonNa find a way to force that ball where he wanted to go any just scores. Some World Lose Jackie boy come to the United and my Second Choice Maya backup prom. Date is James Madison. He does everything that Jag Jag. Grilles does but is a touch more expensive but also a touch more proven. Oh and I don't think Jack Reliable ever leave Aston Villa which I respect to the bottom my heart. So those are my two wish-lists wish list players. What about you do? I would just like a centreback. Just one Hayes. Asia finally any type of defender I really love that bad ass. Turkish dude I can never pronounce his name on. Lester who looks like Lord Farquaad But he's a bad ass Cy Young to thank you. I was going to try and go for it but a nope wasn't gonNA go. But yeah he I don't think he's GonNa be leaving Leicester Anytime any time soon. But he he if I if I could pick one it'd probably be him because he's pretty pretty sick Next question Boyd M Riley says is one transfer for each of the traditional top six plus other interesting teams last year in Everton We did menu and Arsenal so we can just hop around quick big Liverpool. Pretty Sound Man City need better defenders Probably a new center defensive of mid would probably be nice They use like a cool Bali which will be really good for them. But I don't think they'd get him like the summer for you. Know like ninety million dollars or something Chelsea I feel like they need a striker. So who's the Guy Well yes what's his name just went to Dorfman the the really. What's it called? What's the guy from Dorfman who just All fucking Uh aw from Australian Oh early early in Holland I got. Yeah yeah he would have been really good like you would have been good for Chelsea. They need like a good striker. I'm trying to Marin you go ahead is are you in terms of the top teams. What do you think needs what Liverpool who doesn't need shit and they do need to stop complaining about their lack of debts because they have plenty of it Manchester City. Like you said. I think that they need a top-class. The defender on especially with the retirement of Vincent Company on the Injury Report and the realization that Johnstone's and ultimately you're pretty dog shit also Mendis Pretty Dog Defense Defense Defense. For Manchester City Cutler. Bali is obviously one of the best defenders in the League but I could also see them. Go for a just giant Lyndon aimed like a veron or Martinez Because those those guys are just out of this world good end. Manchester City regularly breaks the bank to do that. Shit so I think that is centered. Defender is definitely one of their targets on for Arsenal. I mean I think you hit the nail on the head you still need a defender For Chelsea I'm GonNa go opposite direction. I think that they're attack as bad as a love. Tammy Abraham as their a sole striker I love Their wingers they kind of do a little shuffled switch around each time the play whether it's Mason Mount Will I am Pedro Christian Pulisic. I think they're pretty settled up front. I think VINITA fucking goalkeeper because Kappa is dodge it. I'm all about that. Train and and Donham Tottenham I think I think needs a midfielder a better midfielder the option than Sasako I think that they really shit the bed. WHEN THEY LEFT LEAD MOUSSA DIM Bayliss Lee for China last year? I think he brought a whole lot to that team. In terms of the tenacity and skill in the midfield to suck of justice not assess Vigils linked up Toby Alta water water water water water water water with a law global Until two thousand twenty three John is obviously solid Davidson Sanchez You'd get what you get with him and They're wingbacks are pretty the damn good Gazzaniga I mean he's he's a decent backup who knows if he goes ever GONNA be the same. So I think Tottenham definitely focus on that midfield gender in their attackers obviously damn good Offend hit all the top six limoges throw in Leicester for shits and giggles I'd say they need a all Mansi Love Lester and I think all the players in that team in each position are so good but obviously There's improvement for each one. But I I think that chemistry so good between Peres Jamie Vardi James Madison Harvey FUCKING DOC in. What's that other school that I always think of Harvey Something Harvey Barnes Benca while your retailers? I think this is a bad as team Amo so I guess you would just go for improvement in a certain position and this is just because this is the worst player on the pitch in my opinion Johnny Johny Evans are getting better defender. Yeah I think I think it was all around pretty good. That was a pretty loaded question. So yeah where do you go Martin. I'm you know now thanks to Doodoo. I'm next question Sped Lucas says too hard. Can I just like come up to Boston. Get up here soon. All right Sped Lucas says Is Veron underrated World Cup winner. four-time Champions League winner in Virgil van. Dyke is considered sittard. A goat defender Muslims it's a mix of underrated versus overrated and Braun has has Obviously proven himself in leagues in international play and in our club international play while Virgil vendex on his second season of being great. I'm so I I guess you can call them. Underrated Seeing as he is literally two months younger than me and a four year younger than Virgil Van Dyke and yet he's been performing coming at the top level since he was eighteen years old he benched pepe at eighteen for that. For God's Sakes so yeah Rafael Verona's criminally underrated. I Know Kevin and I said for quite some time. And we've come up with our lists of best defenders in a world of Ron has been on it so yeah I think he's. It's it's a a mix of underrated versus recency bias. I mean if one person does great in front of your eyes and you watch him every week and he does great we just you. You laugh all the praise on that man while ignoring this proven superstar that is ron so yeah he's damn good doesn't get the respect that he deserves. Yeah I it definitely agree. I feel like we have so much of a Premier League bias especially US and we're not seeing Bertel Dyke is. I believe the best defender in the world. I feel as though variety and gets you know not as much shy because you know we're Real Madrid face Real Madrid for so long was Renaldo. The face of Liverpool is really Virgil Van Dyke which is weird for it to be a defender so yeah I think Veron is underrated And he shouldn't be because all the things that we've already spoken about so it was kind of a shame but I feel like they were very different players but he made he kept Rama's under control which is a feat. That should be also another accurate for itself. So I feel so. He Made Rama's who is definitely in the Klein He covered his ass quite a bit. So next question goes to J.. He says twenty twenty team of the year predictions breakout players. Have a gray season. ooh So I feel as though team of the year twenty twenty. We'll have some of the suspects. Maybe a few different. I feel like some locks will be messy Mugabe I feel like the front three lake. Monte is well with the left wing like that will still be very consistent And then in terms of midfield midfield I feel like that's where it gets midfield and defence might get a little tricky I've you'd have to have Virgil Van Dyke and Veron that we spoke about And and then you can do the left and right wing back Liverpool. I'm pretty much re saying the twenty one thousand nine so marinas are any. What bring up players? Can you think of the top of your head that will really come through. I think erling Holland will be You know probably candidate as well. Yeah I mean I. It's it's kind of a loaded question because we kind of already know so who the fuck is going to be on the twenty twenty year Because it's it's usually the same people every single year So literally just going through breakout stars. I think James Madison is certainly on that list in the midfield and like I'm I'm not saying that James Medicine is anywhere close to being as good as as as the players who would normally dominate a team of the season. So I'm literally just going for breakout stars Early Holland definitely The guy that fucking Liverpool ever pull just bought I I can't pronounce Werner Werner Thou good one team Warner for sure for sure And I leave this another other. Criminally underrated defender Joshua Cambridge is going at once again for Byron Munich And then so you don't you. I'd put him on. My underrated. Underrated breakout player of the of the season. And then kind of moving into a la Liga Martineau to guard and yes real socio associated dad killing the likes of Yemen fucking road off for three years and he's having a great season so I'd love to see him on. That breakout two of the year. And then you know our I think Dean Henderson on Sheffield United has just really made a name for himself. Same with a guy on On a Crystal Palace Both goalkeepers have really made a name for themselves as as solid number ones for their team. So I think there's a whole bunch of them and it's the seventh day of twenty twenty. So can we put off our predictions for the twenty twenty team of the year for just uh just a little bit longer guys. Seven days in we don't have to predict yes. I just need to breathe. God I'm already like just you know over the ethics halfway through the season. Let's just wait till we hit seventy percent. Yeah let's then I can be like okay. I feel more comfortable answering this question. Russian all right. Let's do some lightning questions. Jason Levin Seventeen says toss a coin to your witcher with a question mark. I I would just say Emmy Martin have texted about this. The witcher's fucking awesome Henry. Cavill fucks that man fucks like like literally too. I mean he fucks in the show. But it's it's a spoiler but the witcher's amazing so when I texted you about this curve A week ago have you seen the witcher I forgot. I texted you that because I think I was drunk. And you responded yes so good and I hated it at first I absolutely hated it and I kept saying it was like it's only cut scenes. All it is is cut scenes a no action. It's all dialogue. I was really being little snoot about it and You know since then I've watched for episodes of it and let me just say say It's it's bomb it's bad ass. It's really cool. But the most impressive thing to me is Henry. cavill sounds just exactly like Gerald barreled into video games like the voice acting his his impression of Jarrell is bought fucking on terrifies me and I think that's even his build like how he's built. Yeah and I just finished the witcher three and actually just did a podcast. Lower the games talking about the creatures of a good check it out on nineteenth quick plug Anyway yeah I after spending eighty plus hours on wild hunt and I haven't read any books but I thoroughly enjoyed Loyd the witcher. I finished it Sunday night. And it's it's awesome it literally a a kind of jumps around in time line and stuff like that but I feel like it rewards you for paying attention and then it kind of wraps up really really nicely. So that that's that's all I'll say any who were moving on the twitter at lads ads underscore podcast. First question comes from the soccer. Knew he says are you guys really back or is an odd fever dream. No were very back Surprise predictions for twenty twenty season. This is the same He has three questions. So we'll just do this Any surprise predictions for this. You're Marne even though you said you don't want to predict anything for twenty twenty not yet No I am refusing to partake in twenty twenty the predictions in the seventh day. Twenty Twenty No. I will not partake name or goes back to Barcelona. That's my. That's my one thing ooh hazard gets kicked out of Real Madrid. I don't know I I could see it. I see I see facts. Facts only podcasts. Gas in his last questions are odds of Houston and or Orlando getting relegated. MLS teams can't get. Oh Down with Dan with teams from cities built on swamps. I wait what I don't am I stupid. Do not understand the question slowly Kevin. Okay okay odds of Houston and or Orlando getting relegated. Down with teams from cities built on swamps. What hold on? Okay let me think about this. Hold on I put up twitter. I'm reading this okay. ODDS ODDS OF HOUSTON and or Orlando getting relegated. Down with teams from cities built on swamps. Am I we're we're my. Are we both stupid eleven. I what he wants. I know I want. I want to give you one soccer new view essay but I got it. I got him and and I didn't even think Emma's teams got relegated. So first off. Zero I guess. And for swamps boost swamps. I I do not know this but Shrek yes I mean Fuck Orlando. I have been always a big or Florida. Hater from my my ex and could give fuck about Orlando but All right next question at Maj.. Will Six At Matt Wilson says. Who Do you see the top? Six as the seasons and will spurs united to be able to hold out and wolves will spurs find any consistency under Josie. Or do they need a couple of transfer windows and an off season to regroup Top six at the end of the season do that first and then kind of answer the question Dan I of Liverpool city I'm going to say Chelsea Tottenham Arsenal Manchester United. You want me to answer. Then you WANNA address the second part of the question or or do you wanNA address that way. Now I change it. 'cause no I doubt I'M GONNA go Liverpool Man City Leicester Her Chelsea Spurs United Yep that's that's doing it. I second forgot about Lester. And how good they're doing. I don't know why it is totally just blacked out for a second that'd be that'd be my top six our minds it's unfortunately Liverpool Fool Liverpool City Leicester United Chelsea Tottenham at. That's my top six uh-huh someone someone write that down. Yeah tell us what our and yeah come the end of the season. Let us know what we said back back on the seventh day of Twenty twenty. Because I'M GONNA keep saying that it sounds like a medieval. Tom's J. of twenty twenty it was written in the mountains on the seventh day. It sounds very biblical. I kind of like it Wall Spurs and united to hold out Sheffield and Wolves Charlotte Sheffield and wolves. Because I I love that both these teams go up against every top sixteen not giving a fuck they literally go. They like like other teams Who usually be these mid table team? Struggling being in would try and be all defensive. These seems go balls out I love Sheffield I love walls. And what they're doing and Spurs Josie. We'll be able to get them under control. I definitely think they're going to need to transfer window to get a have any chance of like being like a true consistent top four contender not title contender. But yeah that's obsessive shit. What fucking Shit? Iranian air force taking off from its base based on word taking off from bases in The Arab Emirates and Shit books. I it should looks fucking scary man. Oh three Dr Soccer Laura. We're we're three back to okay shit man so many good memes. That are going to be coming from this. I can't wait but Yeah what do you think I I think that there are three teams Three you know like I guess you could call them. Mid Table teams that really take it to the top six teams each time they play and Sheffield Wolves at Manchester United do that three midtable teams taking it to the top and if only they could find some consistent consistency I do not think Manchester United knows knows what consistency means main one week. We'll be good. One Week will be beating Manchester City on the next will be absolutely dominated by ARTETA's TATA's arsenal And if you look at you know their stats win win. Loss loss loss win loss. Draw and there. There just ain't no consistency. I do think that if they're not able to break into the top four at the end of the season that is exactly. Why do they have shown the talent to be gable to compete in the top four but there is no consistency incent talent for the wolves and and Sheffield? You know it's it's the question as old it's time you know candies teams keep it up And and we ask or so aims of research. Can I keep it up. It's it's a question that goes farther than just football it does it does Iraq's my brain I you know just like me. I think that I think that wolves can keep it up and also just like me I do not thin Sheffield can keep it up. Look they're having a yeah. It's on off days. We've been there on day. We've all been there. We've all been there kinda few drinks and just nothing you do. Yeah aw aw the fucking worse I was GonNa say Best I just past the fuck out now. Actually I'm getting to the next Yeah that sorry sorry. I'm old now all I do. I want there's not that I just shake my head I'm like it's it's not gonNA happen. Life's life man. Tricky agents or last question is rum brock. BIARD sexy sexy K. is from our discord channel. which is our channel where you can come hang out and a big chat room with other a lot of cool people to talk some soccer drinking life save video games movies all sorts of everyone? WHO's like fans of the show and got to meet a lot of cool people to channel a lot of awesome people? Brock says what Footballer Footballer. Would you want to see as the next bachelor and as a big bachelor fan now. Oh my God I just do it for the for the clout Martin. I just do it for the cloud. Girls are into word means more end. I just watch it because girls are into it. No and is why gone to astrology and now it's is tricked me and now I'm actually a fan so fuck you and astrology to God. I hate twenty twenty now. Oh God you're you're such a Leo actually. Can I just add to that. I would say the premise of I think we gotta pick the best hair and I think gets Jack Relish ejaculation. Perfect Bachelor. ooh He would or or or the British or the British Love Island he be great great. Emma violent I do follow that because I follow Lad Bible are I. Don't follow it but I know what love is because I followed Lad Bible on Instagram. And they do this really fucking funny thing where the list. All the contestants and put like random short bio and it cracks me up every single fucking time so go watch love island. Oh It's absolutely hysterical. I've never seen something so just mind-numbingly awful for my brain and absolutely love it. If you need to shut off your brain for a few hours I go I love island. It's fucking phenomenal. But okay. That's our show guys. Thanks for hanging out with us. I thought it was going to be a short show but we love to fucking ramble and talk soccer so hey happy new year and we'll see you Friday with our weekend bets by some go ahead. They soon house Oh boy.

soccer Emmy Martin Liverpool Liverpool Arsenal Manchester United FA Real Madrid League Manchester twitter Manchester City Ramos Veron Cruz Twenty Twenty League Cup Donald trump US
The 9 Angles: Does Satan have a military?

Stuff They Don't Want You To Know Audio

1:01:23 hr | 2 years ago

The 9 Angles: Does Satan have a military?

"Wars. This episode of stuff they don't want you to know is brought to you by creature feature. A comedy podcast, all about exploring the hilarious wacky downright weird world of animal, and human behavior who said by Katie golden season, two of creature feature asking answers important questions. Like Ken dogs fill jealousy, how to animals adapt to living in human Centric areas, and more if you love could laugh and have a hunger for knowledge than you will fall head over tales for creature feature. Listen and subscribe at apple podcasts, the iheartradio app or wherever you find your favorite shows. UFO's to psychic powers and government conspiracies history is riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or learn the stuff they don't want you to know a production of iheartradio's, how stuff works. Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt. My name is called me. Ben, we're joined as always with our super producer, Paul mission control deck, and most importantly, you, are you. You are here and that makes this stuff they don't want you to know a quick check in as we want to do recently. How, how are you guys feeling feeling good? Did some traveling Noam backed good to be with you guys? Could it be with you, dude and sacred space? That is stuff. They don't want you to know. That's right. Hey, I got to know none of you will ever hear it, but I got to be on an episode of ridiculous history this weekend. That's right. That's right. The reason the no one will ever hear is because we forgot to record it. Who recorded a version of it while you were on adventures? Math will there we go? See, it was just an ephemeral moment that occurred, and I thoroughly enjoyed it. Hope you guys do to help you save the show. Okay. I don't accept to your what you say. But it was it was a lot of, let's paint a picture, real quick. Matt was the voice of the super producer figure in the scenario like much, like, super producer, Paul mission control deck, but he was producer, Matt the madman Frederick and he decided it would be fun and ended up being very fun. If he was off stage like the voice of God, like the man behind the curtain, and he'd shined in with great quotes, and did voices and sound effects, and it was just a delight marry. All of a sudden, we're words written by Mr Ben bolan will those were quotations from Richard Warren, Sears. Okay. Well, then big ups Richard, and he did some great reenactments. So we I hope you will be able to join us for a recorded. Facade of that show. One day, you also can we mentioned this on air? You're in New Orleans a. Yeah. Went to crime Khan and just hung out for a little bit met a wonderful couple of the last names, white and black. They were they were really awesome and did some monitoring of a panel. It was a lot of fun. We've been doing more and more of these panel things recently. No paul. I know I know that despite trying to cajole you into talking on the show and it's not really your bag. So maybe for a check in with you. We can get a thumb up or thumb down is this a thumbs up thumbs down day. Oh, that's a vigorous. Thumbs up as a specific. Follow up question, Paul. I saw you at movies the other day, going to see a film was at thumbs up or thumbs down film, double thumbs up. You got to remind me what it was called again. Demon Tino, and it seemed like a really kind of interesting twisty, not sci-fi, but kind of an interesting absurdist weird kind of ride. I'm looking forward to checking it out. All right. All right. Well, here we are, again, folks, and we hope that your check in with yourself has gone well, feel free to tell us about it. If you discovered something, especially strange you can. You don't have to wait. You can just pause, the episode and call us now because we have a call in number. That's right. We're one eight three three as CD, w I t k to sell all of a sudden, at once making more or less intelligible more. Yeah. As people like ritual, stands, Cipolla feels like a ritual was like we're summoning something we say that. And here we are, again, folks conspiracy realist longtime in first-time listeners. Thank you for tuning in. We have spent several recent episodes, diving into the true crime aspects of this show, proven can. Spiracy. Many horrifying or disquieting things that were acts of Monday in human beings. Just kinda crappy people who were self important and or had power wanted more of it. That's kind of how this stuff goes often. But don't worry we have never forgotten about the supernatural side of this show, the world of the occult the world of the hidden, the SO teric, the unknown today, we are delving into the controversial world of what is called theistic satanism, and the strange story of something called the order of nine angles angles not angels. What the heck is this thing? You might ask the best way to answer. This question is to begin laying down some ground work, I. So here are the facts. Most people are cartoonish Lee wrong about satanism. This is true. You know. Yeah, when you when you hear satanism you. You probably think about some of the imagery that I myself have placed into videos about satanism robed figures, Baff, Mets everywhere horns of goats. And certainly pentagram pentacle is all of those kinds of things the chanting yes, is definitely one. And oh always almost always black, like just black clothing with some hints of red. Or maybe all red with some black the head of goat certainly heads of black goat with a thousand. Yes. Sacrifices both animal in human. Right. Right. The idea here is there's a secretive group of humans and maybe some not quite humans opposed to the more publicly dominant narrative ideology, or religious movements of Christianity Judaism, Islam, the people of the book writing, and the people worship this monotheistic God, who has in this entities past had a conflict with an adversary, sometimes called Lucifer morals, scratch, the devil, El Diablo. What are other good devil names like the actual devil, not demons say, yes? That's what. Yeah. And that the MorningStar and the MorningStar favorite, right? God's number two, the light bringer. That's a really good one. So, yeah, it gets into that permission thing. Right. So the idea here is for for most people on. They think of stereotypical Satan, or devil worshippers there. Picturing. People who accept this sort of supernatural religious narrative. Right. That there is a God and God had an adversary of some sort, who had all is known by these names. This was once an angel I among the angels, and then it fell in rebellion and it took its fellow mutineers with it. And now these people who worship this fallen angel seek to spread this message and to transform this, the Monday and world into something closer to his infernal vision. They also they also seem to usually informally refer to Satan as dude. Yeah. Absolutely. It's almost. It's interesting. How it seen as and we, we actually talked to David I briefly about this, how, there are these two opposing forces a force of light and force of darkness, essentially, or corruption on the other side, who I creation and corruption is kind of duality bounces around. And in a lot of things, right? Yeah. And Nostitz system as well and Star Wars movie Star Wars movies, and some animistic beliefs. I don't really know where I'm going just to say, like that, that really is such an old vision of how the universe functions within these sects or within these groups. So how accurate are these images, the pop up when we hear the word, you know, satanism or seat? More sugars. Luckily, for us, they are not very accurate, had all their there are several ons column genres of satanism. Right. And there are multiple interpretations of things that could be called Satan in these John RAs or their people's interpretation of what this thing, called Satan, actually means or represents without getting too, into the weeds on old boys identity, we'd like to refer you to our earlier video episode, there's all about the origins of Satan in near eastern and western ideology, and we even have a show called are there. The real Satan worshippers or something. Oh, we do. We do have that as well. Yeah. And it does into almost all the questions you might have like at the beginning of this. We're skipping all of that. Yeah. So if you pause today's episode to call us and leave us a message telling us how you're doing which thank you. By the way, if you did. Phil free deposit again and watch those YouTube videos as long as you're not driving, or flying a plane or something like that. So. Let's assume you, I'm posit- now, you know, all about the origins of Satan, it, whether they're real Satan worshippers, as with any religion or religious movement satanism has numerous branches. It's more of a convenient umbrella term for some related beliefs rather than any specific dogma because they, they have vastly different opinions. But they do have some commonalities, right. They have they have a couple of things that they all generally agree on. Yeah. Largely an interest in magic that can be played out in several ways either, like some sort of psycho-drama, which to me is a ritualized kind of performance of kind of experience. Sure. Is there another way of looking at that? Well, it's yeah. It's, it's one in which the, you know, we get catharsis which is why people watch and participate in plays. So it's sort of an an empowerment of catharsis, or a leveraging of that. So now. Now, the person who the, the person psycho dramas everywhere. It's in Christianity. It's an innocuous version of psychodrama would be the reenactment of the birth of the Christ child. Got it which all the kids do in church. But in this stuff, they're like I in this role. Now, am whatever deity, I so really performance of ritual it's kind of a rival or there's another kind of ritual, which is maybe less performance. It would ascribe mystical events and much more of a magic magical power kind of to these acts, as opposed to the psychodrama which to me, maybe implies that your body ING, but it's more catharsis rather than some kind of like spell the first or the second psychodrama psycho drama, yet because the mystical event that would be not as bad, as more of a spell that is more of like saying, I am doing this to create this effect, you know, in real time, and we can, we can also explore an instance of that, but we would want people to know what's, what's going on. Yeah. So that's that's one thing. Yes. This interest in in magic and, and the ritualized performance or an action of magic, but that's not it right. There's other stuff. There's also a sense of community, the creation of a community that defines roles in a hierarchy relationship between members somewhere between people who share a Miskel pursuit to those who live, according to a set of religious belief doctrine, in generally when you're talking about a lot of this stuff and how they're forming their community. You're talking about people who really see this philosophy of a symbolic Lucifer or Satan, which is more about yourself, your own, like the single members nonconformity to society in almost everywhere, as many ways as are achievable, right philosophy, thriving, on the maybe instead of nonconformity. They might see something like the benefits. Of being true to oneself. Yes. And in that way, it's, it's a lot of times about breaking your chains from a lot of societal norms, depending on the type of Satan is okay. Okay. Right. 'cause, you know there can be conformity with there can be internal conformity, strictly enforced in groups that are externally non-conforming. You know what I mean? Yes, it's, it's a little bit of a securities way to put that point. But you're the into more of there's some that focus a lot on individual individuality others on, like the actual sect. And of course, last commonality, not a big spoiler some sort of reference to Satan, if that worship of a singular entity in there are, there are many, many satanist groups of the best known of which are today are probably the church of Satan. Anton Levin, right? And the spin off of that. The I was called it the sequel of set the temple of set. It's sort of, like how golden girls was a spin off of Maude, but with Satan, that's a for golden girls fans. So the church of Satan, and the temple of set had this sort of low level, hierarchical leadership and kind of loosely agreed upon thing, right? We, we agree these following things, and then do as they'll wilt. So. I want to be very careful not to seem disrespectful of anyone's personal religious beliefs. If you're listening to this odds are you're probably not in the church Satan, just because there are so many other religions with so many other adherents out there, but your personal beliefs are your own, as long as you're not inflicting them on anyone else in or harming someone. It's our opinion that you, you can do what you want, you know, absolutely agreed. So with that all in mind, here are some just a few different types of satanism. Right. There's one that I think you are, you're probably alluding to directly there, Matt rational. Satanism it's secularized. It comes about in the nineteen sixties. It's a theistic meaning that there's not really a God. There's not. They calling it satanism is sort of using Satan, as a stand in for something else. This was under the direction of the famous Anton Levin, an author and occultist based in the states, who you can find audio and video recordings of his voice sounds far less sinister than one would initially assume it really does. And I will never understand why he didn't begin going exclusively by Zander, lavar, the as his. I mean having S Z ender totally as a middle name. That's powerful thought he. Looked like Ming the merciless from the flash, Gordon movie. Okay. Wow. He really does interesting. Yeah. Okay. Less than society thing with bald or shaved head guys. And go t's very pointy, go t a particular type of goatee. It's like that's super angled kind of one. Yes. And in this gentleman, I'm just going to call them Zander. Yeah. Or Levy do as though will see that. That's the whole of the law. He created this attack bible, it still to this day remains available. You can find it. It's one of the most at least most available books that you can find about satanism or the satanic religion, any form of this thing known as the church of Satan, that we've already mentioned, it is by far, the most well known as the thing that is mentioned. Oh, what's the what is that show? Gosh, why can't I think of it? Dateline? Twenty twenty on H B O comedy about nerds. It's awesome. Thanks game of thrones. Deadwood. Of the what is it? What's it called Paul? It's the Silicon Valley. Jeez. Silicon Valley, you'll see mentioned or at least referenced heavily in Silicon Valley where there's a satanist character. He talks about the anthem Lavelle the time and again, as you said, it's, it's all about atheism. It's about the individual essentially being empowered, and it really does have this nice symbolic, Mirroring going on between, you know Satan rebelling against God or whatever the large God is. And then the satanist rebelling against mainstream culture or, or mainstream religion right, right? There is a nice symmetry to the structure of the philosophy. Right. And it's exactly as you said, according to LeVine, neither God, nor Satan are actual beings. And this is heretical too many people who believe, otherwise, even some sadness, people who consider themselves such the only God in this sort of satanism is the per. Person themselves, the individual so Satan, quote unquote, Satan is a symbol representing the qualities that satanist embrace. So it's kinda like they took a character that they thought was cool and didn't think was real like superman or something. And they said, that's it. Those are the those are the things you want to aspire to be so invoking. The name of Satan, another infernal names is a tool in their rituals to focus one's mind on, on the manifestation of those qualities, and those workings tip in the hat to Alastair early. Of course now right? Yeah. Yeah. He's still in play. You guys seen good omens yet. The new TV adaptation. I preferred it to the book, I found the book whimsical in a way that didn't really speak to me, but I know I'm gonna get me for that. I found that about the show, I couldn't make it through episode one. It was a little too key TSE in the CGI. Really call too much attention to itself. I'm gonna give it another shot though. But crawley. The name of the demon character, which is based on the self styled, most evil or wicked man in the world, Alister Crowley, famous famous sexual predator heroin addict and egomaniac. They go doing have at parties. Do you in rituals in the middle of the great pyramid with his wife? Well, okay, that's that's true. I am being I am being a bit flippant about that. Because I think that guy gets more credit than he deserves blots, but in some circles, he is considered a pioneer. I've never done that. No, no. I would be surprised if you had, I don't know. It's just we can do an episode on that maybe I need to be more fair and come to terms with it. So the problem the problem is that at certain points in Crowley's life. And this is a little bit of a soapbox for me at certain points in Crowley's life. He demonstrably functions more as a con artist than a true believer in someone's thing. No. If you're not if you're a true believer in something, and you're not hurting people. It doesn't matter what someone else believes about it. You know what I mean? It's your decision. But if you are an acting harm on people who you know, have not agreed to be in your shenanigans, or if you are pretending to believe something that you do not believe for the purposes of bilking, the credulous, then what are you, you're not? You're not a leader of people. You're not you're not a holy being. You're, you're the same as anybody. Crooked game of three card Monty and just for the record the mercilus out, they look exactly the same just want to put that take. So Knowles holding this yet. I've got comics being the mercilus them. That's, that's an Ming the merciless, right? After after being but several other ones. Yeah because there, there are other characters that appear in. Oh, what's that flash, Gordon, comics? Because remember flash Gordon comment at swimming, the merciless from. Okay. Yeah, but there's, there's a predecessor the maybe I'm thinking of someone else because I swear that his predecessor maybe encyclopedia of super villains. I'm talking about in the movie in with Queen soundtrack. Oh, massed out of a university now. Oh, yeah. A good stuff. So in comparison to earn contrast rather, to the church of Satan, it flossy. There are theistic satanist, these are what we think about right if we're the average person we're thinking about what satanist is two members of this branch Satan is not just some cymbal, nor some clever useful metaphor, instead, Satan, is a genuine actual entity. These are the ones that you could refer to as devil, worshippers chur. Yeah. They might. Worship associated demons as well. Yeah. Different groups of the eight nece may have different interpretations about the nature of this being, but they all agree. It's real. It's similar in a way to the process church of the final judgement. How they would have some Lucifer's, and then they would have some where they sets or Satan's, I can't remember but they some worship this sort of light bringer permitting, aspect, and others. Worship this punishment and fascist aspect. So examples of this include things like the temple of set the golden girls, to the Maud of church of Satan, and then something called the order of nine angles also known as Owen a or Oneida, a, in a lot of the a lot of these sorts of self-styled organizations, just like Scientology or just like federal government agencies. There's a huge emphasis placed on the on initial 'isms. And acronyms. Let's talk about how they were founded, but let's you that after a quick word from our sponsor. I can't believe it that Gerald is presenting the quarterly budget report with finger puppets. Look, here comes one point seven percent decrease in finished overhead. I know everybody. No. I can't believe how easy it was to save hundreds of dollars on car insurance guy. Go, you know, projected increase in organic, cute three revenue. Believe it. Geico could save you fifteen percent or more on car insurance. All right. We're back. Let's talk about the order of the nine angles. So according to, you know, one of the common story that you can see people in the order of the nine angles, which are we're gonna get into later. It's a bit hard as an outsider to discern. What is what as we'll find later in the episode within the order of nine angles, but of the things that are publicly facing in the virtual world. The common story is at the, the organization itself was founded sometime in the nineteen sixties. And then as it continued along. It started to gain more and more attention, especially in the nineteen eighties and a lot, a lot of it had to do with activism specifically Neo Nazi activism, which tied this group into its self described traditional satanism, right? At times, the order of the nine angles has been described as one of the world's most extremist and dangerous of. Botanic groups, and it's known for its support of far right? Militant movements overwhelmingly racially or religiously motivated, vice called it, the most secret of satanic groups as well, claiming that it advocates for animal sacrifice human sacrifice and reshaping the world higher to ones will. So what is the true story where does the order of nine angles come from, and how do the rumors stack up to the facts? Here's where it gets crazy. I version, according to their stories, very much like, like, like you said, Matt, I version, it's established in the nineteen sixties by this shady, lady, who's usually called, not an intentional rhyme. Usually called lady master, and she had previously, according to the story, the tale they spend been involved in a quote, secretive pre Christian tradition that survived in the Welsh marches of western England. So before the time or the rise of Christian ideology, there was this secret mystery religion and this, this person inherited the secrets passed down through through ritual through oral folklore through rights, and passages unbeknownst to the greater world and the owed nine A, or ONA believe that Satan is one of two aycock, casual beings, AAC, Hajjah will be a something. That is, is not dependent upon cause for to exist, something that sort of prefigures, the if then reality of human existence. These attornal beans are there, two of them going back to your thing about duality. Right. One is bath that was female in their mind. And one is Satan who has mail in their mind. And then in nineteen Seventy-three guy calling himself, Anton long was initiated into this group eventually attaining the title of grandmaster, and he really popularized. The group with other groups, because he was quite prolific. He was the Alexander Hamilton of his group. He he wrote wrote and wrote and wrote man, the kid is nonstop, etc. Other quotes from the Hamilton Broadway show because of this. You'll hear a lot of people say that he was really the de facto founder. It's suspected that the person. Was the original, they called her. The lady master eventually, had a child with a person calling themselves Anton long and relocated to Australia, at which point long began running the show. Hey, go. Yeah. You'll you'll find you'll find different versions of it one and this website called a cult dash study dot org. Talks about how it was Anton long who actually and again, this is probably likely from whoever's calling themselves like you said Ben into long from the on his own writings, essentially where he brought together three different groups essentially three different secret orders. The what is it knocked trillions, the temple of the sun in the Cam lad tradition that this guy, brought them all together in created this thing called, oh, nine a and, again, you'll find various versions of it throughout the internet rights, the, the expanded on the orders concepts and their ideas in all. All these publications which will get into, and they tied it into some. Oh, which we call it some, some contemporary politics of their time in nineteen eighty eight they made their journal, fin rear which was another was another sorta rung in the ladder of walking up to public prominence, which is what they always wanted with each publication this group sought to establish links with other Neo Nazi satanist groups, which are totally thing. And there, there are more than you might imagine. And by that, I mean, not just not just people who are being profiled, because are fans of metal but yeah, honestly, do consider themselves satanist. Yeah. And this is where we get into the full society and some Vigliotti strange occult, beliefs and actions of portions of the Nazi party, or at least some of the upper echelon of the Nazi part, I'm really glad that you. Mention that because the order at times has preferred to describe its ideology as Nazi occult, it's strange the way these things become a federal write. The names can be worn and discarded like a old jackets or reused in reshaped. And now in means, something completely different. Redefined, right. Yeah. Like you know that I mean that's also just a human thing. That's just a Monday and thing there is a magical power names for people who are adherents of, of those belief systems, but ticket to Neo liberal versus liberal, liberal means something, very different in the international sphere than it does here and the, the leading conservative party and Australia. For instance, Australia, just had an election as we're recording this, the leading conservative parties, the liberal party, I believe they go, I don't know names. What are they maybe they are all all jackets? So the order prefers describe itself. Well. Well, it's ideology rather, as Nazi occult. So that's promoting a supernatural system of thoughts that can Dem's liberal Judeo Judeo Christian society and longs for a new imperial age created by a sub niche in superman. Figure called the Vendex and that is not windex pronounced with a German accent. The index. The that's right. The that's true. Yeah, it is. And they Anton long to do that, right? Okay. S and ultimately, the idea is to expand to the stars and to bring this ideology outside of the terrestrial sphere. Yeah. I mean, that's it's an ambitious belief system. It sounds like they want to be stormtroopers. You know what I mean? Like full on the whatever the new order is in the new Star Wars systems if feels like that, to me when they also did some really disturbing stuff the way it's, it's tied up in, in this kind of love of fascism. And this, this again, I don't know how sincere it is this warship of characters like Adolf Hitler? So that's the first version, the second versions, a little different and dives into more mundane matters, according to observers and commentators, and you'll find a surprising amount of literature on this. There is no real Anton long. This is a pseudonym used by a British of former Neo Nazi David Miot. I think it's my it and why ATT who either use this organization to further his own ends, or created an elaborate hoax out of whole cloth. Yeah. He's known in Britain for being a hard line national socialists or Neo Nazi advocating national socialism as well as violence in the past. He's been implicated in physical beatings of people. And usually when these sorts of characters are implicated in violence, the attack in packs. You know what I mean? So like a group of people jumping, a single person, the Oneida grabbed national attention and the global war on terror when the organization was second, or even third hand associated with series of murders. So Venezuela wanted to, you know, move up get some more. Things like not really infiltrate just bring in other groups who to grow their own ranks. Right. So they attempted to infiltrate some of these non Tannock Nazi groups, or Neo Nazi movements such as there's one specifically mentioned in several publications called the atom Waffen division, which often the atom of whatever it is. Adam Kaufman division, and it's a US based organization and this group at least it's affiliates killed five people in two thousand seventeen and two thousand eighteen so this is recent. This is very recent. And it is a real group is just sounds, it sounds odd from the law enforcement side of things. The all this Assa Terek, an occult ritual, doesn't really matter anymore than, say, like a gang initiation or some kind of really heavy hazing. Yeah. Right. Exactly. Because they're not going to. It's useful in that it can identify members of an organization, but to them, you know, imagine if your job is the stop organized crime and gang killings, you want to learn about these groups so that you can to some degree predict and prevent particular behavior and prevent further criminal acts, but you're not, you know, odds are if you're if you're in the FBI or something, you're not going to stay up at night worrying that these people may curse you, you're more concerned about whether they have access to firearms and explosives. It's a, you know, it's, it's kind of more grounded or Monday and look at this, however, do have to say on the side. No, I did find to freedom of information act request to the FBI about this order of nine angles, and in both cases, the FBI responded by saying that they searched and they didn't have anything Ligo. So maybe they're. Not a victim. I don't know my it for for his own his own. Right. Has also. In addition to deny things like the holocaust denied that he ever went by the name Anton long. He also went through interational where he practiced as a Buddhist monk, and then he embraced radical Islam praising al-qaeda and attempting to unite Nazis and Islam ick terrorist. That's nightmare material. That's a odd couple, isn't it? Yeah. And seems strange. Right. But so, so we already see in the origins of this thing there, there is a bit of duplicity. The question is, whether it's purposeful or whether it's just kinda bungling you know what I mean. How much of this has meant to be taken seriously, how much of it is meant to be believed? I think we mentioned a little bit about their process. You mentioned vindicates what, what about the, the rest of their beliefs. What what's their plan? Yeah. So they believe that civilization. One has to be destroyed from within completely undermined, and disassembled dismantle, so the adherence are actually encouraged to be pretty awful people like as a, you know, part of their whole prescribed course of making this happen. So that includes things like committing crimes random acts of violence sexual assaults and even this whole like genocide kind of idea calling human victims. They also embrace magic. They do share that same commonality that we had mentioned at the top right of, but wh when we talk about their magic whoa. What are we? What are we talking about? I guess that's part of why they're called the order of the nine angles. All right. You ready for this? I got this from oh nine eight dot org and it's just a post to there and it's talking about what the nine angle is actually represents says, quote there, nine angles referred to the nine combinations of the three basic L chemical substances mercury sulphur, so. Salt and these nine angles slash combinations were first outlined in this text is nine hundred nineteen seventy four is called emanations of Ranya, Iranian Urania, who knows. And these nine combinations can be used to symbolize how the causal and a causal are manifest to us as, for instance, in our psyche the next, John of causal, a causal that we are via archetypes personality types, and it just goes on with stuff that I honestly, I'm struggling to understand, and a lot of this. A lot of writing in this fear whether's hawking left, hand path right him path stuff does tend to be a little bit up to the they also practice something that they call the sevenfold way. So the sevenfold way is a series of steps meant to make someone a, a practical master of all forms of sorcery physically mentally fit. In this way is divided into these seven stages. The stages are neophyte initiate external adept internal adept master of temple or mistress averse grand master or grand mistress. And of course, it, mortal sometimes initiates are described or called novices and adept cer- called presort priestess, it goes on. Mejias midgets drought. Also known as heb Hebdomadal, every does that our word for today, Matt dommage, ry, or the sevenfold way. How does it? How does it spelt? HEB DOM AD are y now. Right. Someone used that in a sentence, and call us. So strange. We look at this because what, what we're seeing quickly becomes a rabbit hole of a colts philosophy of working, again tied in very much like the whole society or Tuli society to these to these race based beliefs and. What, what we pointed out, however, should already be pretty disturbing than the purpose here for the members of the society by their own statements are to destroy what we know of as civilization up to an including human sacrifice, which they do talk about at length in which differentiates them from a lot of other satanic groups. Let's, let's pause for a moment for word from our sponsors. And then assuming that we have not been killed via magical means, let's explore a little bit more about the work. This episode is brought to you by Cox. With contour TV from Cox. You can find all your favorites. All in one place. Does it have the YouTube, you Bet El what about that? Netflix thing Netflix, too. And although superhero movies, contour has all the latest titles on demand. Oh my grandkids love that big green guy, though. I prefer the one with the hammer myself. Okay. I think we're done here now. Get all your favorite apps shows and movies, right? On contour TV from Cox. We made it we're still here. Yes, no one has gotten us by magical, psychic or more. Traditional means. So that's good. Let's check on Paul. Yep. He's there. He's intact. All right. Foof good. I don't know what is is turned all black. But, you know, it's, it's, it's, it's call the Monday. It's monday. More of a cosmetic thing. Yeah, yeah. These kids these days. So they're not this group is the order of nine angles is not known for subtlety especially, so they have a book called the black book of Satan comes in three volumes. These are considered so extreme that they're kept in a special section of the British library, or they're not available to the general public. You have to ask for them at a counter research, purposes. Kind of thing that's because these books repeatedly talked about the idea of, of calling committee acts of violence and destabilization up to an. Luding terrorism and with, with active culling. What's fascinating is one of the steps that they're, they're told to do is to groom someone to voluntarily submit to being sacrificed, that's the alternate the ultimate coup there. And they also have a an interesting work study program for lack of a better term that they send their members on. Would you believe it looked up the black book of say on Amazon, and there's one paperback available used for eight hundred sixty four dollars. Yeah, I would believe that I guess they're hard to get a hold of that happens with a lot of a cult books. Yeah. I mean I it may be too. This one has someone as either like bilking someone or they have multiple copies and they're just putting them out, one at a time I saw that before. I you know, I wonder if anybody does have a copy of the black book of Satan, I found a free download PDF on a called boards dot com. I'm sure it's the real deal. I don't know yet. Right. Getting a PDF of the black book of Satan, I laugh at the fair. So let's get into what is required of Owen a- members who were going along that sevenfold path trying to get into one of the noxius or whatever they're called that works study. I was mentioning exactly one of these one of these cells, essentially, so they, they want people to spend six months, either just traveling hitchhiking the way you would a traditional traveler along that path working as either a burglar, maybe working, even as a police officer or infiltrating some, some version of an extremist political group where you're just kind of roaming, and in working inside one of these other organizations to things that connect with this. This is very inspiring for any of us. Horror writers in the audience there used to be a television show. Maybe the nineties rarely two thousand that was sort of the scary Thalji show called the hitchhiker and remember that. And the, the hitchhiker, the frame was that someone picks up the hitchhiker and terrible stuff happens. Yeah. Which was, which was gold. But it makes me it makes you see how appealing this could be to people who are fearmongers in the nine hundred eighty nine hundred ninety Tanic panic scare here in the United States, we could say, Satan after all around, you there, low level criminals, there hitchhikers. They're living off the grid. You know, they're going to rainbow gatherings or, you know, they're hopping trains, voiding the spotlight of mainstream America. And with the fact that, you know, that seems like that seems like just some something people would say to sell headlines, right? Or get people to tune into. Sixty minutes or something. But here we have a real group say, yes, go do this for six months. Yeah. Yeah. It, especially what baffles me is thinking that at least on this list. Where was mentioned seeing a police officer would be a good route for this, and I guess, it's because you're, you're essentially practicing power over others. I guess they're reasons to that a police officer would be I think on on that list. Yeah. In one in one passage, they said, do something that is far outside your previous life experience. But working in law enforcement will give you a Liam Niessen, esque, certain set of skills, they go, you know, for physical altercation tactical thinking, or that yet, and that's something we kinda talked about before. And this will we're mentioning that sevenfold path that you go down to join this group, you, it is about the psychological. It's about the empowering that it's about empowering. You psychically. It's about empowering. You physically and all these things. So I guess a police officer would be a really good. Way to get there in from their literature. This has. This is where I want. You guys think of this. So from their literature. They attempt to quote undertake the role of extreme political activists and so- champion heretical views by becoming involved in extreme right-wing, activism. They demand this one of their introductory books. They say quote, the aim is to express fanaticism in action, ex and be seen by all right. Thinking people as extremists and dangerous. So they want to be the people who are, I don't know, if feels to me like they're talking about edginess for the sake of edginess, you know, like they're going to bust into an outright meeting, and someone's going to say, well, you know, I just I just don't think we should they're going to bust into a tea party meeting. Maybe let's make even more innocuous and they'll say I don't think we should pay taxes, and they're like, yeah, dishes, we should burn all the money. Yeah. Yeah. And everybody's like, oh, those guys are dangerous. So, so they're they've kinda got this idea of, again, very, very motivated by racism. They've kinda got this idea similar to joker in the dark night where they the heath ledger, joker the Goodwin where they want to just so chaos indiscriminately. But unlike the joker who is a it was a fictional character exists, only to spread chaos for the sake of chaos itself. This group seeks to spread chaos to make it easier to propagate their twisted world and cosmic view MO so we see that strange tragically not necessarily alien marriage of ideology here. The Nazis and the so-called Satan uniting to pursue goals that are at least non mutually exclusive. So for the Oneida fascism is actually seen as. A means to an end rather than an end in and of itself, particularly, this idea of a sinister dialect, that's the key to the Jahic evolution of human civilization into a higher form. But the Meiji in Nasreen, distortion, also known as the Christians, and the Jews is holding back western civilization, according to this doctrine from reaching its final step. Some sort of evolutionary step and must be overthrown. If humanity is to advance, so holy war or unholy war. Absolutely. The vision here goes to that thing that you mentioned earlier been. Vi-. Vindicates. Yes. Right. Being led by vindicates deep into the cosmos. Where were mentioned, though, establish a galactic Reich to champion and make known our unique human destiny of galactic exploration, and the colonization of outer space, this is from the drek and Wade. D. R. E. C C. I A N. We're not recommending that you check out these books. We're just letting you know that these are these are the. The tenants the goals and the aims as self described by this by this organization. Oh, yeah. And they, they really do want to, you know, it's, it's this concept at least of creating a sinister world. And, but here's the thing in order to have the world, be sinister. You gotta make the people that are living in that world or controlling running that world sinister. So they think this can happen through what they call the practice of genuine, modern heresies. I I like that. I don't need to poke fun out of it genuine modern Harrises. And this is, you know, again, taking yourself the individual person through all of these mental and physical trials that, you know, well, you're going through mental physical trials. And at the same time you're also practicing magic with a K so ritual ization things you're basically, I don't know. You're, you're honing. In your cell phone all possible fronts to become evil. I guess, in a way or maybe, maybe not the word evil is correct here, but to do the things that the group wants to do. Well, here's a question, do you think people that are adherence to this kind of belief system? Do they see themselves as evil? That's interesting in some in some cases, there would be people associating with this because they want to they want to be seen as evil. It don't they just think that the path of Satan is the better path. Many probably do. Yeah. Just wondering if even if good and evil even enters into it at this point, when, when it comes to your thinking behind getting behind something like this, I guess, that's why I was hesitant to use the term. I guess when I when I mean is adversarial to the status quo, and, or the, the ways in which society are set up and the institutions that hold that society up. I'm just getting all big picture about it. And my head is just inch. To think about the nature of good Nevil and his does true evil really see itself that way, or do they just believe that they're actually doing what's best? It's an interesting question because in many cases. Yeah. In many cases, all great villains are the heroes of their own stories. Right than say doing terrible things. But I'm doing it for greater reason. Right. And they're, you know, people have to die, but the world will be better etcetera etcetera, the, the thing. That's interesting about some the'stick satanism, and why it can be so attractive to people who are already involved in something that, that puts the bulk of its emphasis on violence in the short term is the there's not too much of a leap to go to something else, like this, and one thing, that's interesting about the question about regarding seem oneself as good or evil is that you can get a little bit of a sense, not a rely not one hundred percent reliable since you can get. A little bit of a sense of how someone sees themselves by what emphasis they place on things. Do they place the emphasis on their alternate end goal vision? Is that like seventy percent of this? You know, my most many religion spend seventy percent or so of their time talking about how to be a decent person now. Right. Or do they spend the majority of their time talking about the violent things? They will do to get a vaguely explain thing in the past, right? Or in sorry in the future. Yes. Yes. Yes. I mean that's to me. It's tough because it probably varies case by case. But I'm sure in satanism. There are a few people who think I am evil. I embrace it on the son of the beasts whatever and they probably really believe it. Maybe they misled whatever does it for you is what I say, like the beginning of the show, if you if you can use religion and maybe not realistically murder people. But if this does it for you, you know, being evil or the idea of? Being evil and you're not going to, you know, call an entire population than I say more power to you. But unfortunately, this particular idea involves a lot of these random acts of murder and rape, and violence stuff doing unto the innocent, some can't get behind the can't get behind the nine eight here, guys, sorry cannot throw my endorsement this, this order, which is weird because it was your pitch. And I think it was interesting because I, I had never heard of this. And this leads us to maybe one of our bigger questions, which we always have to ask with these sorts of groups is case of Seaton's military, satanic army, or is it a case, more of internet bravery? You know, the, the order has been referred to as Satan's military, but it seems more accurate to say that the order or the people who claim to be involved with it, because we can't verify a whole bunch of people seems accurate to say that they are maybe militant in attitude, more than organized and violent in person because of the crimes that can be reasonably traced Oneida affiliates. And partner organizations seem to be crimes that were sort of egged on by the group, but not enacted by the group directly and the oh nine. A was also wants dismissed by other occultist as the order of no members because this one guy David, my, and I think another guy they moult. Appeared to be the only visible figures within the organization. So how much of it is just them writing prolifically under different names note. I mean, the student aspect. I mean see at work here. But again, we didn't point this out already a little bit. But we have noticed and it's been documented their growth is I this Oneida growth has been right alongside other. I guess what we would call right wing extremist groups. Sure. Yeah. Yes. Premises organizations would be a big one neo-nazi organizations. And this is led to a couple of really strange conspiratorial thoughts, one being, there was actually some infighting between members of white supremacy groups and members of this Oneida eighth thing because there were people saying look guys up just here because I'm a white supremacist that, all like all this weird hocus pocus stuff. I'm we've lost. We've lost our way out of the game. And everyone's like, oh, well that guy doesn't get it. And then someone else said, you know, I feel like I also fall more on the. Supremacy now side and link the magic stuff's cool, like, don't get me wrong. Dude. I love metal or whatever I'm not I'm not knocking metal I am not getting racist, but I'm not knocking metal. It does make me feel a little bit sad for the people who joined up because they were all about that. Magic and all about the that stuff. And they realized this is a separatist group. Yeah. Right. There are other people who, who said, I thought we were just doing rituals. Yeah. I mean, I'm down for our vernal Lord and master. But I feel like our Lord master should be an equal opportunity employer. So I mean, we're, we're making a little bit of light of this. But it's, it's, it's a dangerous thing when we see this connection of ideologies, and these people are conspiring in secret. We don't know. We don't know how much of it is just a bluff. And bluster on the nine a part, we don't know how much of even to some degree is taken seriously, while the people. Is it an elaborate hoax? There's lot writing out there. But again, it's not as, if there is a center that you can visit, you know, there's not there's not a power structure that is readily apparent to a lot of people, and perhaps, that's just kept it internal we do know that at this point, the organization is still considered to be out there, but the views it has spouses, have of mainly caught the attention of law enforcement and governments because of the actions of its Phillies, white supremacist hard, right wing. Terror groups terrorist groups at a two thousand three UNESCO conference in Paris concerning the growth of anti-semitism in Europe and abroad. The stated David Maya the leading hardline Nazi intellectual Britain since the sixties who may be with what is it and Bon on long has converted to Islam. This was true at the time he praised bin Laden and al-qaeda. He called the nine eleven tax and active heroism here for the killing of all, like all Jewish people. And he also he used another name abilities. Iban miot. He supported suicide missions. He has one of the most thorough English language defenses of that he urged young Muslims to take up violent jihad, which is not any, any actual Muslim will tell you that the kind of thing he's calling jihad is not jihad observers warn that he's a dangerous, man. But since two thousand. Thousand ten he claims to have changed. He says, I've rejected his Lomb my extremist past and guys. It's all about love and each other. That's what he says now. But the extremism seems to carry on the question now is, whether it's legitimate, whether the people who claim to believe it online actually practice it in person or some of proposed as the entire thing a hoax. Is that a government front to monitor right wing groups? Let us know what you think that's the most promising for me, or the, the most silver lining answer for me. It's a front group of some sort of this trying to stop some of these other organizations, but people still got killed so they must not be doing that great of a job. Yeah. You know, you, you're probably right. So what do you guys think front or legitimate, like splinter group of real deal? Satanism let us know. You can hit us up on our Facebook group. We are called. Here's where it gets crazy. That's really the funnest way to interact with the show if you. Ask me a lot of members on their posting responses to every episode like message board style posting all kinds of memes and topics. It's just a good group of folks, and you could reach out and just give us. You know, if you've had any interaction with his group whatsoever. If you have any personal stories that, you are, are not the, you don't mind telling us. Yeah. Reach reach out to us for sure about that stuff. You can give us a call. Like we said at the top one eight three three as TD w y TK. It goes right into the hands of us particularly to my phone. So whenever you feel like calling it doesn't matter what time it is. It'll it won't ring. But it will say, hey you got a message, she's true. Yeah, you gotta set up like that. Yeah. Last night, I got a ton of messages came to set us can can everybody get notification? Yeah. If you guys download ringcentral line and use it don't want to burden just you it that we should we should share the wealth? We'll shoulder that for your time. I'm a bit behind. So need to. We had had so many Greek messages to actually texted, if people back and I thought that I listen to my office. It was a lot of fun. They're not gonna call in. I mean, there I was just an amer- listening to the messages. They're fantastic could've taken are left are, you know, commentary with the messages, which is great. Just as a quick story, we one person called in on Friday while I was in the hotel it was at night. And I was working on actually, I was looking over the ridiculous history outlined been that you sent and this person left four messages in a row and the fourth one that he sent was about monster energy and how, maybe there's out maybe some group out there is trying to control us with monster energy, and it was while I was finishing one and it really did give me the I don't know the field what is that? He gave me the spine tingling feeling. Maybe someone is trying to control that maybe as you. That would be monstrous. You can also find us on Instagram. You can also find us on Twitter. Hey, might be saying, hey, toe that social media stuff. It's twenty nineteen. I'm scared of phones. All I do is use Email them. Boy, have we got good news for you. You can Email us directly. We are conspiracy at iheartradio dot com. Stuff. They don't want you to know is a production of I heart radio. How stuff works for more podcasts from iheartradio. Visit the iheartradio app, apple podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. When we started this show I had read a lot of true crime. I thought I knew what I was getting into. But I wasn't prepared to stop sleeping. And for those all too real monsters. Visit me in my nightmares from iheartradio and ten or foot TV monster presents insomniac. Listen and subscribe to monster presents insomniac at apple podcasts on the iheartradio app or ever. You listen to podcasts.

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Kevin Rose on his product philosophy, Reddit & Diggs inverse journeys, Twitters recent innovations & more | E1185

This Week in Startups

1:23:56 hr | 4 months ago

Kevin Rose on his product philosophy, Reddit & Diggs inverse journeys, Twitters recent innovations & more | E1185

"This week in startups is brought to you by rippling rippling helps thousands of fast-growing startups automate. Their hr it from their team's payroll and benefits to devices and apps see how at rippling dot com slash twist squarespace. Turn your idea into a new website. Go to squarespace dot com slash twist for free trial. And when you're ready to launch use offer code twist to save ten percent off your first purchase of a website or domain. And zen desk listened to zen. Desks new podcast. Sit down start up to hear conversations with send desks leaders and the founders ceos and makers on how to start up even when the world goes topsy turvy download and subscribe on spotify apple. or wherever. You get your podcasts. Hey everybody welcome to another episode of this week in startups. I am really excited for one of my oldest friends and one of the original. Oh gee web two point. Oh gangsters In silicon valley notable individuals whatever creators. He's been on the pod. I think this'll be the fourth appearance. Kevin twenty eleven episode to eighteen twenty thirteen twenty seventeen and here. We are four years later. Welcome back to the program. Kevin rose stakes are meets. Could see again. It's good to see you brother. God we haven't seen any while it's gotta be close to two years right. 'cause i mean yeah it's been quite a while i got out of the bay you stayed. Your life came here you know. I was living in l. a. All that time. I've only done bay for five years. Why did you leave exactly where you're just burnt out. Run it well. There was a few reasons one. We having our first kid and we just realized like san francisco is not the place one raising a baby like it. Just an and we. We love portland. We came up here during the summertime. Multiple summers in a row fell in love with the city that farmers markets food seeing great beers the rivers. Here wild salmon is a lot to love and no state yard. No sales tax like the awesome. Yeah and we love the outdoors. We love the hiking trails and all that good stuff so Yeah ended up just building a house here by the time it was done. We had like a three month old and we moved to appear to our home. Fantastic and you start it. I mean. I know that you became a partner at your adventures. Is that a full time gig for you or you like venture parts a full-time gig full partner there. Oh wow. I didn't realize that how long you been doing that since two thousand seventeen you probably because i started off as a venture partner there. I didn't know if i wanted to go back and do more entrepreneurship than there was just like at some point. I was like you know what. I'm just not going to build anymore. Said rather have other people go. I know yet. Mike maser on the show while back. Who's running zero and You know mike's old colleague. I love the fact that he's like running things. I don't want to run things anymore. Especially with a couple of girls. Yeah so it's nice for me to build the just have one hat and just have be the investor. At what do you love about being an investor. Do you miss about being an entrepreneur. If i didn't well. I would say that rush. You get when you launch. A new product out is like you put something out there and you get you know all of a sudden one hundred thousand ten thousand a hundred thousand people using something and it's like super exciting like sure you know we have a There's nothing beats that that is like the the ultimate peak is a founder is to have people using something that you created that you dreamt up so that i do miss. I would say what i don't. Miss is managing people is making those initial hires. That are really hard to make finding finding the right engineering team fighting for talent. It's that stuff sucks but you know on the investing side. It's also fun to identify stuff early on like when you see something where you can close your eyes and say if this works three five years now this is going to be a multi billion dollar business like the feeling that in your gut it it just gets you all excited and it's hard to sleep all the good stuff that comes along with that. It's so nice being able to make the bet and be part of the team without having to do that. Heavy lifting you're talking about which is owned my lord. Just filling one position can take one hundred hours two hundred hours. The person gets poached by somebody else. Six months later and it's it's just like getting punched in the face over and over again. It's being a boxer. And you know i i. I think if you start as young as you did. And i did you know after a while your body just starts to erc from being in the rare and it's not even like you're getting knocked out you're just getting a bloody nose every single time and you kinda like fix up north. Okay i'm gonna. I'm gonna good. And then he go and it happens again and again and you're just like i'm done so strange facts on. Yeah waking up in the middle of the night in cold sweat. I'm i going to run out of money. Yeah that that. That's a another whole scary thing. is that next. Round of financing and then the amount of time that goes into fundraising it's just like The other thing that's people. I think don't understand is that it never ends. So you're like. Oh if only i could be exotic or you know the you know uber. Or if i got to tesla's level and it's like no it it just becomes bigger problems and more at stake and even those big companies right at any point in time they can go off the rails. Yeah yeah the question is like is it. In your dna you had that like mental and like fortitude to go and be one of those very elite few. And i realize that for me. I'm like really good at the kind of early stage. Like the genesis of the idea. Iterating brainstorming wire framing. You're stuff launching something getting something off the ground within just a couple of months like i love to do. I'm not so good. And i really don't enjoy the scaling piece of it like well after you get to fifty plus people. It's just like it does. That's a whole nother town. Yeah and the joy goes down. Because you didn't hire the fiftieth person great and you meet them. And you're kinda like i might not even like this person. I wouldn't have hired this person how this person wind up in my organization right. I mean everybody has that moment in their own company when they're like you go to work and you're like i don't like coming to work anymore did you. Did you have that at some point in your career. You'd have to say when or which company but did you have that moment where you're just dreaded having to go in and push the rock hill or did you get out before you got to that. No i've i've had that moment a few times and i think it's because just in full transparency so immature and didn't really understand how to ask for help and because of that. I just wasn't as well rounded as i should have been on whether it comes down to hiring or managing folks and so i've made a lot of bad bad decisions and realize that i'm curious. When did you come to that. And how did you. Because i think there's a lot of founders right now and we work with them who do they probably have that voice in the back of their head like. I don't know what to do here. But if i ask anybody or i tell anybody i i don't know what to do. They're gonna fire me. Or i'm gonna look stupid when in fact it's the exact opposite but we all as young entrepreneurs are nissan entrepreneurs. Have that moment yeah. When did you unpack it. Do you remember the moment when you realized on this. Yeah honestly it just has. It comes from watching other entrepreneurs in how curious they are like i remember. There was a time when when zuckerberg came over to my office and he sat down he. He's like e the time. Facebook was around the size of dig. Like it wasn't they hadn't had its full blow up moment yet and you know so. We were kind of peers and he sat down and he just asked so many questions like so many questions. Yup and they were just like and he was so curious and some of them. I remember just being like kind of shocked that he was being that vulnerable and and just be willing to be like a sponge and just ask like the silly question home. And i and i realize that is one of the things i feared was was was who leading like letting that side and opening up that side to my investors to my board members yet to others around me that i didn't understand these pieces of the business and and i i didn't know how to seek out the proper mentors you know so that was jd. Kevin rose right crazy casino from the outside. Everybody looks at you and says well. He's a visionary he sees things a couple years before everybody else and he executes. I mean i've always told you this. I think you know pound for pound as a product person. There's elite like there's ten people. I would say yourself. Yuan steve jobs. Alex from calm you know who just when they make a product just comes great. Like i just think you're that elite that's nice to say from your actually i you know i realized it over time because when i first met you when you were doing deg i just saw the product mouse like that things going to change. Everything was so clear to me. And i think everybody. Let's face it. This new world of remote work is here to stay. We all know that and so are all of the hr it headaches. That come with it like how you register your startup with dozens of state tax agency's right. You had some employees. They were living right near your office and then they decided you know what jolo. I'm gonna move somewhere else during the pandemic. Well you're going to need to have your startup register with dozens of state tax agency's now or you have to comply with a gazillion different local labor laws. Well rippling which i use for my fully remote team at inside can answer those questions for you. They make it super easy to manage all of your local and remote employees and contractors whether they work from hq or timbuktu. When you hire people in new states rippling can automatically register your startup with each state tax agency and keep you complying with all the different local labor laws. You know the stuff that no one likes to deal with all that headache. They're there for you rippling also let you onboard. Your new hires in literally ninety seconds. You can instantly set up their payroll benefits and of course apps like slack and get you could even ship them a work laptop with all the software insecurity. They need all installed relive love rippling because it takes a lot of complexity off our plate so the team can focus on important stuff like creating great newsletters which they do over there and now thanks to rippling snoop eeo option. Your employees can likely access better fortune. Five hundred level benefits for less than other platforms. So if you're looking for an easier way to run your startup remotely or just a better way to manage your hr it visit rippling dot com twist. That's rippling r.i.p dot com slash twist and then had that same moment. When i looked at zero fasting which your are all over and watching that prada come at us. I got the last time. I opened an app. And i saw something. This good might have been like calm. Or maybe like uber. To point out like when they the first one was kinda janke they really rushed it but maybe the second version. What do you think when you look at product. What is your product philosophy. Have you have you thought about it because this would be the book that yeah road. I mean there's the book you're born to write like is just how to approach product. What's your philosophy. Well i mean the one distraction that very creative people have. And i'm saying that the very creative person but i have some ari tippety the one problem that a lot of product people that i work with that are on the creative side tend to have. Is there just filled with ideas. They have a lot of ideas and because of that they have a massive laundry list of things that they wanna go built. And so you know for me. I'm kind of in that camp where i will say. Wouldn't it be cool. If these thirty things existed but the discipline you have to have is. How can you boil it down to go build the two or three things and a product that just absolutely must exist for that prior to get off the ground so rather than try and boil the ocean you say how can i do. These core couple of things really really really well and see if that works and that'll shorten your development timeline down to just a couple of months versus six months eight months however long it takes to launch something for most people and so it allows me to test the waters. Zero's a great example. You know i was like i was beginning. Our fat intermittent fasting. I loved the science. That was coming out from dr walter longo at usc there some great fantastic human placebo. Double blinded like the gold standard for for science data. That was coming out around. Tafa g and glue Improved glucose levels and a whole slew. Things around the chemotherapy and helping people go through therapy with a lot less side effects and it was just promising all around so did a little search in the app store. There was no nothing dedicated to fasting or whatever it is five six years ago maybe five years ago and there was nothing out there. I was like well. This is going to be something this is going to be a trend in. It's gonna blow up pretty quick so why not just create. Put your toe in the water. Getting get something out there. that is very basic. So i'm like okay delicious. Make a timer will. Why do you need time on. My phone has a timer. Okay but does it track historically how you've done on your fast. How many hours you're doing for each fast. And so it was a timer with a with a basically a calendar. So you could see. How have you done fast over time. Your average fast. Yeah you streaks things like that what you would have done in google sheet like when fasting started and i heard you and cavin a tim ferriss talking about it. I was like okay. And i just like opened up a google. She'd let me just put my starting in time and then i saw it. I got zero fasting. I pay for the subscription and my brother and my other friend. All of us were trying to lose weight. We all started doing it. We lost ten pounds who is believable in now the product. It's such it's so interesting. The dipping of your toe or the building me you know the simplest version of your vision that solves that one acute problem leads to a bunch of other opportunities opening up. What's the next piece to do. And how to have that restraint. Because i think what you're talking about here is restraint right right in execution and there was too if i if i can repeat it back to you to make sure i understand and for the audience. There are two components here. There's this essential ism of the functionality. Which makes it very clear. The user proposition. I would assume so people understand what you've belt but it also lets you get something into market quickly. Correct that's right. That's right and then i think the next series of features there's going to be two pieces. One is the the lawn who go back to your laundry list of things that you haven't yet built that you want to build and the second thing and even more important one is that your community is going to be like if you have traction you commute gonna start telling you what they want and so and you can tease that out of them. So one of the things that mike was really good at that we did. Is we like put together a potential features that we could introduce and then do surveys to one in one hundred users and just kind of like see if you'd had to stack rank them. What were the next features that people wanted to see in the project itself and we already knew that this is a list of stuff we want to build anyway. But let's let's let the community decided sort which features come next and so you know that was. That's a great way to kind of continue to introduce things. They're going to be excited. The commute get excited about and then it just to continue to snowball from there. And that's when. I realized this needs a dedicated team. Mazer took the the the asset off of me. You'll i kept some ownership just for for being along with it but let him go and run it day to day and go build it out. So yeah now rush rush without the scalp moment and it's doing fantastic because there was a very interesting feature which has your fingerprints on it as well and it is at the top when i first got it. It said like eight hundred people fasting with zero. Yeah i just opened it up now. And there's five hundred seventy thousand people fasting zero. Did you come up with that idea of actually putting in there how many people are using it or did you find that inspiration and what. What's the point of that sharing the consumption yet. I mean we've done that with all the stuff that i touch you. You're right. That was to point out. Because like i thought it was really important to have a live number of who how many people are using this and then we did the same thing on the medication that i build like the number of people. That are meditating right now. Are the number of people. They're doing breathing exercises right now just like you want to know that as a user coming into this it's like how can you build the. How can you create this idea of. I'm part of the community. And i'm doing this somewhat difficult thing like when you first start fasting for the first time i mean like anyone can do a twelve fast thirteen hours like it's actually tough for some people. He and then you go to sixteen hours and that some people will they just imagine a lose their minds going sixteen hours without food. But you know you when you're in there and you can tap on that and you can see. Oh there's twenty thousand or one hundred thousand other people doing a sixteen hour fast right now. I'm not alone like other people are doing this that you give some get. Some sense of other people are being successful. So can i in so anytime you can review a little bit of that in pepper that into prior to a good thing yes and for people who don't know the first time on the web that the like button existed was on a cycle dot com to educate people. Because now you. And i are so old kevin that people don't know the first projects we work on like. No you as a venture capitalist or maybe because zero. They don't know day they don't know weblogs inc or silicon alley reporter. They're just like oh. You're the uber guy or your this week in startups guy. It's kind of funny people. Honestly there was one time. I think it was We have this temp nanny. Come over and she's like. I looked up your name and i saw that you create zero. Oh my god. I i was like holy shit like like everybody's forgotten everything you've done except most reason thing you know and that be the thing that just i spoke to her which is great. I think it's very important for creators to understand this and it was actually a very interesting moment. Where you yourself still. Don't think that you are an elite creator or creative. You're like i guess. I'm sort of creative. I think you're at the height of product creativity. I don't think it gets any better kevin. I think you can admit that you're a creative. Now that i enjoy the aircra- other creator so much that you don't wanna put yourself in the group or well. It's like i'm trying to. I think that one of the things that i try to reinforce myself over and over again is that i want to get a big head about all this stuff you know whether it be on the investing side or on the creation side in like i feel like that's an important thing that you can let your ego get wrapped up on this stuff and i try. I tried to like just tell myself like you're you're just like everyone else like. Don't don't don't don't buy your own bullshit like don't dry and you know so i don't know i've made a lotta mistakes too so i i'm i think that if you try and fails many times i can. You will get some home runs this year number of times. You've had the up at bat right so you're probably a little better than that. But i think there's something to that because you can get high on your own supply. That's very quickly. And it's so random in our industry what clicks. What doesn't there is so much luck. involved. That's right i'm not sure. What your top investment is but what is your top investment. And then how did he go down. Because i'm sure there are some randomness to it. I mean if i can see in travis coming out of a party on the embark darrow and said yeah put me down for whatever new bor. It wouldn't happen to be out that night the round could've closed. I mean there's my life is filled with these stories like this is. This is the story of investors. Like i. i feel like there's the stuff that i really really sought out the which i would say like i put that in the i did a good job at getting this deal done like i. I went track down jack. I had him on my podcast. I convinced him to be an angel and square. Like that was a massive like congratulations. Wow but you know. It's like i think that that i'm proud of the stuff. That is the crazy stuff is that i've had cryptocurrency investments. Outpaced that return just because somebody was like. Hey do you wanna throw on some cash on this crazy new up and coming project and you put a little bit of money. In in all of a sudden it turns into a boatload and you're like holy crap like that's that's insane. This is a weird world that we live on living. You know it's just. Yeah so it's a little bit of everything that's a little bit of luck. It's a little bit of you get excited about a project. And then there's a law stuff that goes to zero as well like you know. Kevin from ship who i thought was fantastic. I mean he was just chat with him the other day and he's like it's crazy like ship. Everyone thought that was going to be the next duper like that. That was going to be massive. Felt like it had a forty million i remember. He had a forty million dollar valuation. I was like. I'm i'm really sorry. He wanted me as an investor is. I can't justify invested at uber at five million. Like this makes no sense to me. Like forty million dollars. You're further behind that. When i invested newborn that was a weakness on my part is that i was actually thinking that that i eight x made a difference. Right when it's still last eight x that actually makes the difference on these investments. Guys we see over and over again from websites and online stores to marketing tools and analytics. Where space is the all in one platform to build a beautiful online presence and run your business with squarespace you can. Blog were published content easily promote your business announced upcoming events or special project sell products and services of all kind. And more no matter. The problem squarespace is the answer because they have beautiful. Templates by world-class designers powerful e commerce functionality biltrite and and everything is optimized for mobile right out of the box you have built in seo free insecure hosting of course twenty four seven award winning customer support and back in twenty twenty when we were in the middle of the pandemic we decided to create remote demo day dot com for founders to pitch thousands of angel investors. And i said hey. Let's get a beautiful sight up immediately team immediately. Went to work with squarespace. And it's been a huge success for us. We found a number of amazing investments. And really just planting a flag and building a beautiful website and tweeting it and sharing it. That's what makes the magic happen people. Come they go. Wow this looks credible. This is beautiful. You know what it was. Just an idea fifteen minutes ago. And now it's a beautiful presence online so go to squarespace dot com slash twist for a free trial of course base dot com such west squarespace.com twist. And when you're ready to launch the offer code twist to save ten percent off your first purchase of a website. were demand go to squarespace dot com slash. Twist a free trial. I want to go back to creativity for a second. I've known you since you're on tv. What was that called. G take the after active merge with for that was two thousand two or three. That would have been two thousand. Well we met in two thousand and four. Because that's when i launched dig and so we met in la to sushi restaurant. Yup shortly after maybe like a couple months you saw dig really early man. We were like three months outfits. Three thousand dollars on a developer. Two thousand dollars on a developer too big build it. I was just watching the like inside of google analytics or the server logs and brian alvi was run. The server logs through some script. And then he'd send them to me and i'm just like studying it like a maniac where the traffic come from. And how do we get more. And i was like fuck is his big thing. And how is this thing. Go from nothing to every one of our stories. It's a number one source of traffic. I'll say this thing's to be bigger than us. We have to buy a quick consi- call. Mark cuban and i was like can have a million dollars for what i was like to buy deg. He's like okay great. I'll be right back. You you had the hottest properties on the internet does with the hottest sites you stick. Everything and i got very lucky. You know it's when you were talking about talent. The first thing that came to mind was. Peter rowe haas Because i you know. I'm a promoter and marketer more than a product builder. i mean. i'll get myself some modest credit as i can. Okay builder product. I think you're elite. I'm okay great by the way which one mahalo. I know i look back on it. I was like oh my god. I should've stayed focus. Because i got so many things right. I knew that search would change from ten blue links to what it is now comprehensive search. I came up with that name. Comprehensive search what if the images and the video and content were mixed with the search results to ask the right idea the per. There's like ten years to two soon. Yeah and that is that is so much. Ptsd to be that. I it was a beautiful design to everything about. It was great. I thought that was a fantastic product. Well i appreciate that. The way i got that was i i said to myself. What is the most beautiful. Now that i've been anointed by sequoia and they give me money and other investors have come in. I'm going to buy the best logo ever. And i said. I love the fire fox and the mozilla logos and the moise. What was their email. Thunderbird thunderbird with the bird on top of that yes. Yes and so i was like who designed the fire fox logo and look it up. I forgot that guy's name john hicks. And so. Because i had seen you do this with dig you fucking great logo and the dig. Nation logo was great at your. You understood that piece. To and i found john hicks was living in europe. And i said. I want you to do the logo from a hollow. I've got this name and he's a six month way. whatever. I say well how much you charge you said. Charge fifteen hundred. I said i'll give you three thousand if you do it for me. I and he said. I'm sorry i can't do it. I said five such a jason thing to do said silence and he goes okay. And i said five thousand. I'll send it to you in advance. No kill fear anything. I'll send you five thousand dollars today if you do it. And he said okay. Daikyo john because once. I had that logo and i put on everything people are like. That's a beautiful logo is beautiful. Yeah he he. Put the palmera from hawaii and i saw kevin you ever get that tinguely feeling when you get something right over sure. That was my tingling. Holy and then i built the answers product. I had done acuna product as part of it. I was like okay. We don't have the searchers. Let me ask a question. And then we'll let people answer. I bill core into it and then i said bill mahalo dollars because i heard about the money being made in china and virtual games as just let people get a dollar of mahalo dollars and then cash them in for logo based shirts and hats and it was all working and then i it just got taken away from me by the goddamn search engine. Panda that google did interesting because they they took traffic crazy. Ninety percent overnight. How myself wicky how. Google is no more. Seo were cutting off all the sites and we're gonna just redistribute wealth and he just. We went from a ten million dollar run rate on ed sense. We're literally making a couple of thousand dollars a day on it and then they just took it all away. Wow overnight how was like. I'm like i'm calling surrogate. I'm calling meghan smith. I'm calling everybody. I know marisa. I'm like please give me my traffic back. They're like yeah you know. That's that's a decision made by the search team like who are like we don't know you don't know they're like yeah. That's a blocks. We can't help you. jeez it was such a what. Ptsd you have the same with the big three point. Oh what was it called. It was our big redesign. Yeah i was about to say. That was your vietnam. But i don't think those kind analogies many more without being gets about that was you're unwinnable war. Let me say that way. Yeah that was that was Of a shift of our resources to become more commercial and it really was against everything that community stood for and was it was not the it was in the best interest of the folks that wanted an outcome. Meaning like if you're if you want us to prep for a sale or you know there was there was there was a lot of lot of forces at play around that redesign. But you get you were. How old were you at that time you late. Twenty s. yeah that's right. yes he. This was i think the unraveling for you from my perception. You tell me if i'm anywhere near. Close the pressure to build the next facebook. The next google from venture capitalists the world. Whatever was pushing you to do things that were unnatural unobtainable unsustainable and then read. It was because it had been sold and it was just like left alone. Neglected neglecting meant staying. The course right and change meant not staying. The course. no. You're exactly right when we looked at read it. We thought okay. Here's a community. That had anything they sold for ten million dollars or something like that for me to you. Yeah and when that happened you know. We looked at that. We were like well that was that was a failure in that it wasn't a fantastic outcome for premature. Anyone involved and we thought well in order to get larger outcome and you know when we met at board meetings and things like that it was like well we need to clean up our act when you do not get the stories that the community loves on the homepage. But we need to get more traditional news. On the homepage we need to put that at the forefront so we need to get publishers more tools to get their content elevated above whatever the committee was servicing. So and and to your point read it was like stay the course be true to who we are and open up sub reddit s- which allows the insanely long tail of content to flourish and that just. That was the unlocked for them. But you know what we take all of these mistakes forward with us you know. I'm sure alexis and his partner. Steve huffman They too soon. The classic mistake selling too soon yours was bowing to the pressure of venture. Capitals they put a professional. Ceo in charge of your company right or you did when in fact you know the right move is to let the cabin rose the the ilan mosk run the company. The soccer berg. Let them run the company. Don't replace with people. Forget that at that moment in time the entire concept was to replace the founder as quick as possible with professional management disaster. You know yeah. Total disaster a just completely changes. The culture change the prog decisions. It just like it was it was a mass and so you know after that an raveled i peeled off and i tried to buy back actually like a month ago. Well the guy from buy-sell ed's tie he won't sell to me. He won't i todd. I'll talk to him. That's so dumb. He should owning ten percent of kevin. Rose own dig. We'll be worth more than buy sell. Its owned dig ever has plans. I don't know what the deal is. He had some plans where he wanted to to kind of re reintroduce some dig like features in some way and he showed me a page looked at it was like i mean it seems like a nice guy but what i would i would. I would totally go back to the original vibe unfinished business with it. And you're busy. I that i would say. I have unfinished business. In the sense that i would have a lot of fun with it and i would restore it to a better version a more pure version of what it used to be and not with the with the ever. The hope that i'd ever overtake read it. It would be just out of the pure like let's get it back in amazing fund site in project easy to do kevin we just get detail dot com. And he's elda. I'm not kidding. Trust me i know how to do. These negotiations is very simple. I'll talk to todd. I'll say listen. Kevin's building d to. It's gonna come out anyway your focus on your business. You're putting five percent of your energy into dig. And he's going to do to you. You're gonna miss out. On the opportunity to ten percent of what kevin can build as opposed to five hundred percent of what you're spending five percent of your time on. It's it's a no brainer. Once you bill de to then what's the point of even owning day it's going to be worthless. Yeah it's just a domain name. It's definitely a lot of new new tech. That is really exciting in this space on the machine learning side and like the the news story aggregation and and also the cryptocurrency piece of it as well like allowing for microtransactions and empowering community to do the right thing for pieces of the actual entity itself is interesting stuff. It's a lot of interesting honest like it's a ton of work like we can also tunnel. I can see it in your eyes right now. The work you want to do and just thinking about it like so much has been built on your original vision and also slashed was part of that right infarct with those were the two that came before yes little absolutely. Yeah those were. They didn't have voting in any way or did have voting fifty. I don't think it just ranked based on comments or something. I can't remember it was. I don't know how far did it Each day it was just a collection in the beginning. It was like here's today's ten links twenty and there were some concepts on there that you wouldn't be able to do today. We've category called. Dyke some anatomy atom at a topical part of a person's body that you who that's right. Yeah like yeah yeah. I wonder if it's still they still doing that. They can't be it can't possibly be. I mean he looked up curtis on farc and for. Oh my god. It's the same design. It's the same design. That's the company category interesting groups face palm and then there used to be an animated gif of breasts and it would literally be like every ten story with these twelve year. Old boys posting stuff would be about a woman's breasts but have that they cleaned it up. They cleaned it out. Yeah i think that would get them gets pretty immediately these days but yeah that's a really interesting idea. You could create a crypto currency because there is that steam it is that the name of it or yes team it yes. Esteemed is basically like a did dig rettig clone with cryptocurrency built in but the owning of the coins and having d the d coins or the coins or the kiro coins. Oh my lord. Oh you should totally do it. Let me she. Learning exists to Then you could show people what they wanna see. Plus what's trending some amalgamation of that. Yeah i mean. I also you could do really fun. Things around a prediction market right. You could say. I believe this story will eventually have more sway in value in the ecosystem. So i'm gonna place early. Vote on it kind of like some of my currency in a way. Oh betting on a stock. Yeah it's great yet but individuals story level so you can kind of say. I believe this has enough the this should deserve more prominence in. So i'm going to play so my little wager here and and then if it becomes more popular within the ecosystem it gets rewarded more so i put a cave. I'm going to call the coins. Rose for kevin rose for shit that i put one k row on the story on the original poster on the oh pay and then you vote it next. You put in two k. rose and then it hits the homepage. We get paid off the other day. Rose that were voting it up or something right exactly so. This was one of the ideas i always had was. I wonder if you if curation could be a paid thing like if people curing stuff could be an actual job. it's turned. Maybe everybody knows that. 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That's what we've learned is not change in the design and that restraint as a way of succeeding. So what do you think of their new vision. You're going to be able to subscribe to people's profiles you're going to be able to charge you for seeing their tweets. Honestly in may get a lot of flack for this. But i think it's great. I think there's two. There's two pieces. I i liked it. They're trying to introduce new ways for people to monetize their content and keep it all direct twitter. And i also really like. I don't know if you've seen but they have a clubhouse competitor. Now i'm on it. I was the first big account. I begged them to be on it. And it's brilliant. it's brilliant. It's brilliant of right there. Were everyone already is right. Number one thing is when i wanted to know the clubhouse people are like i don't have it yet and i had to go to another app. Like people read your graph. Yeah that is that. Is the smartest product. Move from from jack and team go and and tackle that market right away to take on clubhouse right. Now now's the time you gotta roll that out as as possible. I think they got their android out already. And when you look at it. I think they're going to have more minutes listened because i watched a couple of key accounts like blue checkmark sal counts and when they started rooms kara swisher. I opened up our room. It was forty blue. Check marks And i was like. Oh my lord. She's had a thousand people on her podcasts on her state or maybe ten thousand over the decades the she's going to be able to pull all these top people with out them installing a new app right and then they were. You can share. If you're speaker you can share tweet and the tweet becomes an object on the stage. No i didn't see that okay. So this is the sick feature. We're all talking you. If you're a speaker you can pick any tweet. So we're talking and you're like oh yeah that reminds me of you know the time. Mark cuban said and then of boop we're all sitting in a theater and the powerpoint presentation is mark cuban. We're talking about it. Then when somebody else puts up its tax them and then puts the little dots on the bottom like a Cover flow or a gallery and you can swipe through the gallery brilliant tweets so when i was started talking somebody who is the speaker was listening to what i was saying was popping up the tweets that were related to it so people could then go down the rabbit hole on twitter to understand the topic more should they could make a more informed comment or contribution on the audio. It's crazy. it's it's really cool to see that twitter. I mean there's a thousand things that could have built. They took their time. They waited and these. These feel very core in native to twitter versus something forced. Would you agree with that. This is completely native to twitter's what you're saying. Yeah meaning that it feels like it's a nice product extension to what they already have perfect versus it being over and i have my thoughts. But i'm curious of why you think this is the the ultimate natural extension for them and feel so organic. What do you think the reason is. Well i feel like the we're as a ecosystem when you think about twitter one the things that was a big pain point over all of this stuff whether it be all the election drama or even before that with with with trump and all the run all the politics on their his been that it's very easy to say something that's really harsh And just walk away and let things explode and not really have a conversation around. Thanks and so. I love that. This is actually forcing people into a real dialogue and real audio real conversation. I think there's power in that to get people talking versus just like blurting out a tweet and walking away and so. That was the one thing that i saw from clubhouse from the very early days is it is it felt so much more intimate to have a real time conversation then just like a static tweet rises exactly what you literally. If i was going to say your answers are perfect. Line which is twitter and social media is a misunderstanding and a dunk. Fast and in the greatest weakness of twitter. Is that people talk through an over and under each other each other it turns into a flame war. It is the problem with texas. There's no tone and then you add the sophisticated tone to a platform that is already a cacophony of every argument and discussion going on in the world. And then you can use that as a funnel to an actually consider discussion. Great it's a funnel. It's like chaos and then understanding right. So i've seen this multiple times where people were talking to each other. And they said. Let's start a clubhouse room. So i think that you'll use taxed until such time as you feel misunderstood or the conversations devolves finley to which somebody says you know what you guys should just talk it out in a in a twitter space right. That's it and hunters strength. Yeah i would. That's exactly it. And i would love that to be the case. Let's hope it goes there. I feel like it is. I feel like it is. Did you get caught up in all that like trump derangement syndrome and all the toxicity of the last four years did it. Did it hurt you. You're such a. I wouldn't say you're sensitive but i think you're considered i wouldn't say i certainly i think you're sensitive about on the you're overly. Nc as an overly sensitive person. But i do see you as a very considered person. Has this like made you sad for me. I just you know. I certainly see. The impact of social media gone wrong. And it's a it's a really. It's a really sad thing. And i think we all know that the creators of all this stuff right and that wasn't the intention when they set out all this stuff quite the opposite is quite the opposite and so when you see that happen and you believe in the potential. You know. i'm. I'm just really excited to see some potential solutions to those issues At least on the roadmap so that's good in terms of politics i. My wife is insanely politically driven. And i get enough of it from her at the dinner table contact. I tend to tend to like not like for me. I can't read a political news every day. I'll just go crazy. It's a suit stressful for me. Like i'm like. I'd almost rather have in a newspaper. Format schools. sounds like give it to me. after it's been considered gimme a day or two later. The real time stuff of what was going on with everything else was just he was if i if i allowed myself it would really really be too much. Do too distracting. It is so distracting. I feel like i as a person who believes deeply and freedom of speech. I m pragmatically delighted. That trump is no longer in the town. Swear because just for the the silence and the space for other people to have a moment to contribute right like he was taking up so much of the dialogue with nonsense that i just felt like it was it was just got very boring to hear him. Say something outrageous for the left to fall for it for the right to control the laugh. There was like this is such a disgusting distraction. I don't want any part of it anymore. Yeah that would you. Were on the same page. I for me. It was I'm fine with debating and discussing and like a lot of my family. At the way i grew up was republican. That was like my. I come from mike. My father mother and everybody. They're all republicans. I counted if i yeah conservative. I i moved to san francisco and after a couple of years. I started kind of leaning a little bit more left in became a democrat. And now you know. I still share a dinner table. These people and i'm fine with entertaining those values because there's some fantastic values mixed in there. But i just can't take the lies like let's have an honest conversation about the make things. It's pretty crazy like just the level of derangement that's occurred on all sides and yes. There's so many big problems for society. That i feel like. We don't have time for this. You know you look at global warming you look at poverty look at education you look at china and the relationship there. There's so many big picture things we need to solve really. Don't have time to be at each other's throats about this when you when you were at or at True ventures were you involved in the peleton investment at all or just got to watch that. Am watch. i watched it. So i you know the truth back a couple of my companies previously known those folks for a long time and they invested in peleton. Very early on you know. It was just a fantastic story. Continues to be a fantastic story to watch that all unfold We still have a board seat. There john callahan's on the board. And so yeah. It's it's sean. Like he's brilliant. What's his superpower. Because you know. I invited him on the pot a couple times. He's kinda doesn't do a lot of press He doesn't do a ton of press. Yeah he's just as insanely thoughtful and someone that He spends a ton of time working on q. Like is very much driven person and is very good at reading the room and just bringing out the best in people and kinda like focusing the conversation towards that so fantastic leader in a very measured and thoughtful way so there's not a lotta drama like one of the lowest drama firms. I've ever been involved with. It's like it's the fantastic place for me. Because i don't. I am also someone that aspires to be like that so i think that he's just very early at spotting these big trends and taking in placing bets on companies that most people will have said no to. That's such an easy one to pass on peleton. Because you're like oh hardware yet. No right expensive hardware and a subscription people will never pay for that. I mean hardwares too. Hard consumer subscription to hard. This'll never work. And then you look at it. And i put my peleton treadmill bike riding because it hurts my knees after doing so many marathons but i do like you know just walking on my treadmill and watching tv. Show or listen to a podcast and playing chess. And i am just so in love with that product again on that product it feels like you know sliding into my tesla model y. Yes or you know unpacking a new iphone. Where do you get your design inspiration from. I'm curious like when you are looking to sort of fill your bucket with ideas and you know. I'm looking at your microphone in your headphones now you and obviously a designer in house and give known you watch you on your journey become more and more. Let's face it. You're obsessed with design. I think and culture. When did that start. And where is it now design. Well i would say that It's it's something where i've always been They ever. Since i was younger i starting to build products have always been like you when you were seeking out the best designer for the mahalla logo. I've always been Someone that would browse dribble and some of the design sites and just look at the mess design work out there and lose hours so whenever there's mockups for stuff i just love to think through that stuff and just when i'm wisely something creative. That hasn't been done before whether it be mostly on the kind of like you exide where someone figures out a clever way too high data that is still discoverable or just some some kind of just new thinking there. It's always got me excited. So i i became fans of these best of the top designers out there daniel burke of the world and just like johnny i right. He was johnny for sure. They i by he was like that cat up to now is he got his job or is he just counting his money. He must have done fabulous right. I hope so. Yeah he's he's done he with stuart before slack with slack and there were the game neverending. So yeah was he joined stewart. Butterfield over there was there for founding designer so had just a ton of ownership in slack. And yeah he's he's in the uk now living with his girlfriend and Working on health problems so he's always working at this massive a company that is trying to tackle healthcare and third world countries. So for him. He's going in designing mostly android applications to enable doctors on the ground in third world countries to build a diagnose and get compliance round medication use and to some really unsexy things but it has to be so dead simple for people that don't understand technology that he wants to go in and contribute that way. So he's like a of the earth type dude like canadian like the nicest guy in god. I'm on his web page right now. Simple dot org. I think is the name of it. According to his wikipedia. Page and guess. Tom freidan created this. And he's the ceo of resolved to save lives at two hundred twenty five million dollar five inch to prevent epidemics and cardiovascular disease. Yeah he's working with on hypertension right now. Amazing and you could see how simple the app is super basic but it has to be. It's back to what we set originally is to take out the ideas and then start with the one basic idea. Yeah i mean he. He spent a bunch of munson india in the middle of nowhere and he said that he was talking to me about the issues with getting people to just no one to show up for an appointment. How you can train someone to enter the right data. Meaning like when you're entering blood pressure information fasting sugar level like you have to make it just for someone that is new to technology and using android phone for the first time they're not gonna screw it up and so that's that's what he's focused on is just like fantastic mission. Tell me the designers. Cultures moments of italy design and product and services that inspire. You or have inspired you. Then we were talking about before we got on here and you know i watch you tony. Malik mellon wag. All of our circle become obsessed with japan. Right after we go. Why do people who do what we do immediately appreciate that culture and then just feel like that is the i almost feel like that's the society i want to aspire towards. Well i think. When i went to japan for the first time we'll know the first time but more recent trips i remember seeing someone who was waiting for an uber. How is standing outside on the street. First of all just the respect for the environment and the country and how clean everything is is just like unbelievable but aside from that i was sitting across the street from it. I have watched old man come out. This whole japanese man came out of his house and he had a cloth in his hand and he started polishing his own mailbox clearly like doing small little polishing the mailbox. And i just remembered the respect for your own things and just the simplicity of that that attention to detail in focus and when you go to japan and you meet these people that are building our have created anything for that matter if you're an artisan and you've created something japan you're the best at what you do. You get a ton of local respect and honor for being in. It doesn't matter what your position is meaning like you don't have to be a fortune five hundred. Ceo you could just be the best breed two in the world and like we were talking about this before. The show started like coffee masters out there that age coffee beans for thirty or forty years and it's one guy and you walk in and the seat six people and you know there are a rock star in that world because they have decided to hone their craft that one very specific thing and that's what their life's work is so just the fact that they go and find their lights work and be at the best of that like i have a lot of respect for that. It's a beautiful thing and it's a sad thing that we don't have that level of appreciation for craft here in the states. I guess in some cases we do but not as widespread as it is in japan. Yeah not at all. I mean i knew that there was something special going on there. My first trip. When i first went on the subway i was looking at the sign trying to figure out where from republi to wherever i was going. I don't it was i was going to go to the ski g fish market the next day i was just trying to figure out the map. And what time and i'm standing here looking up at the map and the time schedule and then there's somebody next to me and then another person next to me and then a third person and they all started speaking english very basically and trying to figure out what i was trying to accomplish and then they one of them walked me to my train and waited for me with the train. This is on the subway and they're all wearing white gloves and the place is spotless and they just wanted to make sure that somebody who was visiting the country clearly was not going to get lost or get off the wrong station right. I've had that happen to me. I've had the exact same story happening where someone walked up to me and tried to help me find my way. Would that ever happening unsolicited. Yeah exactly you would be very nervous if that happened. Exactly your friendship with tim. Ferriss you guys will do a random show once in a while and idea. I texted you both I try not to blob thames taxed. Because he is you know he's protective of his mind space. I guess is a way to say it wholesale. 'cause one time on a podcast he said you know there's so many people trying to get stuff for me. I don't know if it was talking to you or something. And he kind of got. Sometimes he gets honest and sometimes he's not happy about certain things you tend to i find. He's very honest with you. You're so good at getting him to talk about stuff that he doesn't wanna talk about. Yeah that he subsequently has to reedit the podcast it takes for sure he takes. He takes out because you always get it out of him. Not i need the meditates. I need the basement of those original discussions but he said at some point like people are texting me and they want stuff and you know. They're just texted. If i if i've ever done that. I'm sorry you know. Like i only tried to introduce you to people or tell you about things he goes. Oh anytime you text me or email me. It's great joy for me. you know. Our friendship means a lot to me. And that's not you. It's just other people and he really doesn't like to have. I think people constantly asking him because he likes to think about stuff. But you to just do this. Great random show randomly. You talk about life and it's just such a great friendship. I just thought what what's special about tim. Ferriss to you man so many things. I think that tim is just once you once. You can get him that inner circle of tam like you can break down that wall and you can get to know him on a on a personal level. He'll be like the best possible friend. You could have like always there for you anytime you you need them but he is very guarded and i think i honestly i think it's just like i. I met him before the four hour. Workweek launched or just as it was launching as a. He didn't have a lot of fame and we became friends just from guy just like appreciated his curiosity around so many different topics like he is just a lifelong learner to his core and is always trying out something new. I remember the first time we went to the movies together and this was like when back in the day like before this was even a thing but he had a continuous glucose monitoring his side and it was like it was like hardcore machinery back. Then this is before it was like a thing that even people would would have big super. Yeah they're super simple now but back in the day like it was a hardcore procedure even done and i remember just being like this guy is nuts like the fact that he does self experiments he was doing some crazy stuff back then so i've always been a kind of someone that likes to to dabble an experiment. Try new things and also love learning new things so we kinda hit it off on on that front. But honestly i think a timid just you know. He has been so successful in the last few years with his podcast just blowing up the way that it has credit. Everybody wants to get in front of tim. I can only imagine. You know. Jason like and i we have like small to medium shows and we get enough inbound as it is that by ten acts like everybody wants a line to him and so i think that he is. His guard has gone up quite a bit around that type of stuff. Which which. I can totally understand because who knows what people want. And why you know. Yeah he's just always been searching. And i i got to spend time with them with our mutual friends and we got to go on a vacation or two together like a group trip kind of thing and just really learn to love everything about tim ferriss and then you his recently talking about the trauma in his lives so brave and just so inspiring to see him be vulnerable like that and i always thought to myself like. There's something about tim you know like. I wish the best for him you now and i could tell he searching and i always say to them like what is tim. Ferriss searching for and who is there was like our internal joe gutters. Who is tim ferriss. I'm trying to figure out and he's been so brave about sharing. You know the great things. That have happened as i would also challenges. He's ad in the pain and suffering. And i just told them i was like i am so inspired by your brave nece. You know to talk about the things he's talked about. People can go listen to his podcast but you know his childhood was not ideal to say the least and it's just a thing i don't know if you knew that stuff before he talked about and apologize he had he had mentioned a couple of things to me in the past about some of the abuse stuff when i was at his house in new york one time he mentioned something along those lines but i don't think he was still unpacking a bunch of it because it wasn't he didn't discover the stuff until later in life when he kinda like these memories of these events that happened but yeah i mean the thing that i think is is just so most people most guys especially guys they have testosterone level. Tim does thank you. Don't you don't show your vulnerable side like that especially around our age. Like i think that you know it's. He's inspired so many people by doing that by coming out and saying it's okay to be vulnerable. It's okay to talk about our weaknesses. Because that's yes that's how we get over these things. That's how we grow stronger. You know what. I told him you know privately. I just said listen. I think everything you've done up in career right now is the is the lead into this moment where you're going to reduce suffering in the world more than a billion other people have tried. Just your work on psychedelics. Alone and helping people consider that possibility for their. Ptsd for their trauma which is wildly effective. According to all research that we've seen and for him to take a significant amount of his net worth and what he's earned his living and just pour it into research on psychedelics and reducing people suffering through the maps program. And then i the thing is. It's it's not bullshit either like the i dunno. I dunno if you get mad that i'd say this but like so i'm the i'm the secretary to his his nonprofit so we don't we haven't talked about that ever before but i see what he does and he he contributes massive amounts of no. I know how much he has. I mean he basically was like. Hey you wanna do this. I'm not quite at that point yet. I've got three kids. But i might. But it's a very significant amount of his net worth. It's not like. Oh yes. I have a lot of money. And which which. Obviously he does. But it's not like oh let me. Just do fifty k. Ever here's not talking millions of dollars billions of dollars to help other people suffering get reduced. It's amazing it's real. It's all real. It's a real. And you know what i kinda when i first met my goofed. Automobiles like four hour work week. That's ridiculous you've got to work like eighty hours a week if you're gonna make it. He's like. I don't think you understand what i wrote in the book. I was like get the fuck else is just missed to iran. I was like oh. He's talking about being efficient right. He's not talking about being a lame o but just missed out ahead. When i met him but shutout tim ferriss. Just great. Human and yeah. Somebody's like he. What is it going to have you on his show. And i was like he doesn't need to show we're friends he. He's had twenty investors on the show. Like i'm the he doesn't need to have the twenty-fifth investor on the pod like totally unnecessary. Like some kind of story. You want to come out and tell us that it could be. Yeah of course. If i i just it. Five emilio void would like to talk about touching of what happened on five abo but man that's becoming a thing in silicon valley of the toad venom and just. I'm intrigued hydros mushrooms. I haven't done high dose mushrooms but obviously yeah had mushrooms before in my life. It's the mega where they call it. A roic dose. Yeah you haven't done the guided tour type stuff down the mask on. Yes i did that one time. It was a fantastic experience. Two thousand milligrams or something i. It's five grams of mushrooms mushrooms. Which i don't know what that is still side than it is but it's enough to it's a lot it's a lot. You put a mask on sab for about five hours you you see like my father had passed away after i did it and i was able to resolve a lot of the unsaid things and emotions that i had wrapped up in that and it was just. It was fantastic. Arctic so many years of therapy packed into the that six seven hour session. Fantastic highly highly. Recommend it yeah. The passed on investing in that company. That was doing the synthetic silla sabin with an iv drip that peter thiel invested in. 'cause it was like five years ago or something that i met them in house. I don't know if i can publicly endorse this kind of stuff. That's not quite legal yet. And i just don't want to cause any problems for businesses. I'm associated with or whatever. But i to see this stigma starting to move from. Hey plant medicine. versus you. Know people taking opioids in these crazy pharmaceuticals like this is a whole different class of compounds. And what they do enlightened people and what the other thing does is destroy. Somebody's soul right. So we need to kind of classify these differently right fennel and oxycodone or whatever. The fuck people are taking vitamins. I don't know what oxy's i guess is the one that people were taking a whole bunch of like your arrow itself. These are totally different substances. Like can't put them in the same category. Yeah i mean there's nothing. I tell you you go through a five hour. Six hour journey hydros mushrooms. Nothing about you wants to do that the next day. He like italy drained for a while. And there's like you've worked through a lot so there's a lot of reintegration and processing that you need to do when you do it like that because it is very focused. This is not. Let's giggle and watch a movie mushrooms. Let's do work with a psychiatrist or a psychologist or whoever's administering the stuff and the cool thing is we have that being legal. Now in oregon. So they're making it legal. So it's it's pretty exciting times. This can help a lot of people. I mean just. Ptsd and i had ptsd after nine. Eleven because i was in new york when it happened and i didn't realize that untreated ptsd. But i just kept having What would i realise in hindsight panic attacks when i would hear an ambulance or i would or somebody would bring up nine. Eleven my entire body would physiologically change. Wow you know. Like i would hear an ambulance and i would think about nine eleven. Start crying and i didn't know us garden. Jay would say like are you crying and i'm like oh god i'm crying and i was just overwhelmed by any image of nine eleven and i actually went to therapy doing something called. Amd are. i don't know if you've heard of that. But you have those and you goggles on and it puts you like a fadeaway kind of situation and you just talk about the. I've never talked about this since we're going there. I did like five sessions of this. Where i just talked about my experience on nine. Eleven over and over again and the anxiety went from one hundred units of anxiety. Every time i talked about each time it went down. Twenty percent to which point i could say you know. I saw nine eleven. I saw people die. I saw the buildings come down. I don't physiologically. I feel sad. But i don't physiologically feel like i'm in that moment anymore. Yeah let alone. If you're in a humvee that gets blown up and you watch one of your brothers in arms get murdered or get cut in half. I mean or you have to take other people's lives like horrible thing. Can you imagine having to reconcile that is why soldiers are jumping off bridges. I mean it's this is this is somewhere. Where when you think about the impact that you can have later in life when you get into that third hacked and you deploy whatever capital you made in the first two axe. I'm just so inspired by watching. What bezos mackenzie bezos have done. Have you track that. Like no having he keep ten billion dollars to climate change she gave billions of. I mean they're giving away so much money. It is bonkers like a level of philanthropy. That has just we we have. In one case a level of wealth accumulation that's never existed because of a global market and products. Really be i mean if it wasn't for billions of iphones you couldn't have hundreds of billions of dollars in market capital. Thank right like should require that global audience but now people can write a ten billion dollar check for global warming that's never existed in the history of humanity that a billion dollars or ten billion dollars could be put towards something. I mean i think what we saw with. A pandemic is really opening in terms of solving problems. Do what do you think of sort of post pandemic and what is pandemic life than with you. And then i'll. I'll wrap this up because you've been nice enough to give us over an hour. Yeah no problem hi you. I'd say pandemic life for me has been challenging like it's been for everyone else. I mean i. I miss a lot of friends missing that having that real interaction with humans giving people hugs like things like that. All faced those types of challenges. So what. I did early on like like anybody that that tries to figure out the best optimal way to move forward is i made a list of things that i wanted to try and try them to see what would improve my mood. What would mean a better steed to get through this thing. So you know for me. That was walking outdoors it was heightens the training it was sauna usage. It was cold. Plunge it was meditation and there was one other thing. I remember what it was but i did a bunch of sushi. That's really fantastic. Great beers you know but it was. It was like okay. How i can't do all these every day. But which are the ones that are gonna have the biggest impact on my mood and kind kinda through this and and there were two that that ended up. Sticking saana usage is massive. Do you have that turned red lights on a thing that people are doing. I want went the traditional sauna route. So and la. The research around everything on terms of 'losing lowering all cause mortality to improving cardiovascular disease and helping with a reduced the dementia rates. Like it's all at one hundred seventy four degrees fahrenheit for about twenty minutes a day. that's the studies are at. So i put mine to one eighty and i do twenty minutes at least price days stays. Week is what it improves. Your mood and makes you feel better and there's some days i'm i've got a lot of stuff going on so i do in the evening and other days i can break away at around lunchtime or after lunch and go sit for twenty minutes. He get a shower afterwards. Obviously but that one has been huge and then Taking meditation seriously is a big one like that. What is your practice. If i may ask my practice. Is i try to do fifty five minutes a day which is broken into two twenty five minute sessions with a five minute. Walk meditation between but i'm practicing a very specific non app meditation. It's it's a lineage of called. Sambo zen which is so i actually have have worked with. There's a great zen center in santa fe new mexico mountain cloud as a in b. o. n. b. o. Sandbox wow yes so It's a it's kind of based the renzo which is more on collision training Which is the you've heard of cohen's before like they're they're basically these insolvable puzzles like the the sound of one hand clapping or you know. That's probably the famous one. Are you know. there's a bunch of them but they actually they actually have real meanings and they're actually something that can be used as Checking questions to figure out. How deep your practices. How many companies to invest. In a year. I'd say probably at shrew we've been doing a ton so the cryptocurrency stuff is just been insanely. We've we've probably do one a week. I would say to a week. It's been really which crypto company did you last invest in her become inspired by. Can you share one to get questioned. A of these are pre launch is. Nfc is that like a you believe. That's a big thing. I've i've i've been tr- track in the nfc stuff for a long time. I believe there's going to be a lot of garbage in the space when eh artists with photoshop can become an nfc master like that garbage. But there's a lot of really credible like very cool projects and reimagining of rights distribution and ownership like just the idea of token is to ownership where a creator of an object can see long-term wealth. And hold that object as it gets. Resold is fascinating. The artists can have rights to the second third fourth fifth sale of something and piece of it is is is beautiful and then the go really deep in music. You have all these stories of artists being taken advantage of in music. But if they said listen to cattle you always gonna own twenty percent of your catalog come hell or high water if they screwed you and you know the the beatles catalogue and then michael jackson bought it and and they flipped it and they flipped it every time they flip it. You get that twenty percent. It can't change without you get in that twenty percent and it's built into the smart contract. Have you seen euler beats. Do you know that at all. No oh so let me let me tell you about this one. So this is a new project. They came out a couple of weeks. Back blockchain based basically. What they did is they said. Okay what if we make a piece of math. Algorithm that will create these little mini songs. Okay so they're going to be dynamically generated miniature songs that oppressed the entire code and how to recreate the songs are pressed into the blockchain and saved nfc. Okay so that's one piece. They went and generated one thousand nineteen or twenty one of them different. Beats out there now if you buy the very first one then basically what happens. Is you get the rights to every copy that has ever generated so if someone wants to print another addition of that beat. So let's say you own a copy number one. If i wanna print the next version. I have to pay a price. That is higher than the last person paid is based on a bonding curve. And then you get paid eight percent anytime. Someone buys or sells cashes out one of the copies. So let's say i by the fifteenth copy and it's twenty eighth for one copy. I can then the instantly go and sell it and recoup ninety percent of what the last price old was because it's all locked the values locked into the blockchain and you'll get paid eight percent of the original rights holder every time so it's like an old but without you're actually getting some value right. Yeah but it's mlm in that you're not haranguing people to buy soap but people are people are buying because the there's only one hundred twenty one copies of each one or something like that and so they believe that there will be value in the very first in. Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying this is like the perfect amazing idea. Everyone should go out and buy one. I'm saying that it's an interesting use of blockchain technology and it's it's like a better one would be unit sox. Have you heard of unit socks at all. no so this is going down the rabbit hole. Okay let me one more. I think you'll think you'll like this. One see unisex is essentially what they said is. We are going to create a token called socks. Okay so you can buy. One of these tokens called socks. Gonna they're gonna make only so many of them so let's say i don't know the exact number. Let's say fifty for the of this argument. It's also based on a bonding curve. Slow the further you get into the maximum number so the first pair of socks may cost five dollars by the time you get two pair number forty five hundred thousand dollars for a pair right. They're very expensive. I if you went on right now you can tell me what the most recent cause for pill unisex is. I think there still a few available here. i'll tell you right now. We are five hundred initial sox. One hundred eighty five is unisex dot exchange Yet exchange so slash stats has the stats. So what's the current price for a pair of socks. They're the current price. It should tell you for one. One hundred twenty thousand dollars for one pair of socks okay. Pretty good socks so hold on so if you hold this token the socks token and you buy one of these right now for one hundred and twelve thousand dollars. Yes you can burn that token so you can see in. The upper right is his one hundred and eighty five redeemed. If you burn the token it destroys the socks token but they ship you a physical pair of socks and they ship you an nf t showing that you actually owned a pair of these unisex or you can keep an resell the token at any point in time so you can go in and resell it for right now for one hundred twelve thousand dollars and you get that money back out of the smart contract but now imagine this is silly because it sucks but imagine this is applied to the next pair of yeezy s. So you could go on here. The market can determine what the price of is in so as a goes up as more people buy them. The price increases no longer. Do i have to have a pair of yeezy shipped to me stored in a closet. Fake shakeout original location. Exactly and i can improve until then. Yes yes i could sell the easiest token to the next person they can choose whether they wanna hold it for speculation purposes or they wanted to sell it and get in claim their ease right then and there what i'm interested in is a digital asset that generates some amount of money from existing in the world by in the music example if i created or if i bought. You're a dj. You make some song. You have no money. I'm some guy who appreciates your music. I had this like. There's some artist on spotify found clem leak c. l. e. m. l. a. k. Have one of these like playlists called brain food or something where it's just all good music to listen to while you're working. I found this guy. Clem league it puts my mind like a great focus. So let's say he was starting crazy. I buy that track all by the track. I want fifty percent of the residuals from it and you keep fifty percent. But i'll give you a thousand dollars for it even though you took an hour to make. So you're just made a thousand dollars an hour and you get half the residual so every time it makes money on spotify you get half. I get half. This is coming one hundred percent gotta be the anti gun. Lock one hundred percent but imagine this as dt family on like some global exponential basis. Where you're just back. Any artists have participation but not destroy their careers by owning everything being predatory but also think about this imagine you. There's a platform for this in the future because there will be you go you log on you. Say i'm sprite. I'm a brand manager for sprite. I want to use this in a commercial. Yes click one. Click commercial rights by now you paid in. The artist gets paid instantly via cryptocurrency and that prisoners the rights to go and use it in that commercial project. If it happened with where is it should be. You should build it. This is your next start time. i have no time. But if there's somebody let's whoever wants to do a version of this. Kevin and i will give you one hundred grand right now type it. Let's see it's going to be start ups right. We're going to be selling tokens and all this stuff for our startups. Like this is going to be the cap table of companies in ten years. Jason your idea is a brilliant one. We cut it out of this and just cut it out with me pod. We could just put it beeps in. Yeah exactly exactly. i'll make hollow. Ice loved the domain. Well we'll make them hollowed speed project. Kevin rose and we just need to get a crypto developer critter developers out there. They're expensive hell man. They're in high demand now. Hybrid six months to figure out crypto. Go i mean talent is delimited thing. Not ideas all right. There's been a great hour. And a half a kevin rose One of the great human beings on our industry rate human being to know carried to see a brother. I got you rahman relay okay. There's a place called taisho in japan. T. i s h. Ok annonay do that superman ron. Which is the the buckwheat noodles that you dip in a really thick sauce may opened the first. Us version in san san mateo on the peninsula. So when you're up here i'll take you. It is transcendent. They boil the broth for two days. And the guy who runs it. Yoshihiro just happen to read my book and i met him and he was in our friends and he took me in the back. They make the noodles. They're boil like for two days. This broad never do sit down like eighty percent. It's on and i never was a ramming guy was a sushi guy in tempera guy fast. Now i see what you do exhaust those carbs but it is damn good. All right. ma'am continued success. Good to know your brother and we'll see you next time.

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