9 Episode results for "university of Kentucky press"

History of the Kentucky Civil War Roundtable

Tales of American History

46:39 min | 2 years ago

History of the Kentucky Civil War Roundtable

"Welcome to the witnessing history education foundation podcast educating Americans to understand the history of their country and of other countries. So that they will appreciate the value of America's unique free institutions become an American hero. Who participates in our mission by joining us at witnessing history dot ORG. Download our documentaries and free teacher education materials that conform to grade level education standards at PBS learning media dot ORG, follow witnessing history on Facebook, Twitter and linked in today. Our guest is witnessing history education foundation's president can't master sim Brown. He is here to provide us with the story behind the country's second oldest and the largest civil war roundtable the Kentucky. So. Civil war. Roundtable Ken is the current president of the Kentucky civil around table, which meets five times per year over dinner with guest speakers who travel from all over the country to appear before are the membership of about three hundred eighty people. The meetings are held at the embassy suites on Newtown pike for more information, go to the website at Kyi, civil war, roundtable dot ORG. Now, let's listen to a short excerpt of the recording from the October nineteen fifty to address of attorney in Lincoln scholar. William H Townsend of Lexington Kentucky appearing before the Chicago, civil war roundtable, discussing Kentucky legend caches Marcellus lay. Have to pray shun had one, Sean. Brutus clay who you know, rose fell and such. I'm at a curry enough for one time when I was writing drive down over visit deal. And as he stood framed in the doorway arm or gray Jaakko. Away. The myself that the old line would never be dead knowledge. His son. And I had a very pleasant time with it. Too many pictures air e-even book, I assure you that I wanted all controversial question. I continue to do that matter of fact until one time. Morning 'cause Hamburg and. Share with adverse? Leks? Are they coming to Lexington? Car called me up to be at the day out. I feel sure that he needed this from Kentucky tavern. What I was at. Then all sad that now are you going to write the light of cases invade? If you don't go to write it. And. What are we going to name going to call it? They Magnussen bladder sky. That. General got any sudden in? But he's got a daughter is lower. Live in that she retaliated heavily on that. Live with regret big woman trapped ya'll and one time in a democratic state convention. I heard her make us beach at made the delegates tab that go ahead. The lie. I did was I haven't either over the register. I've alleged ties together you live together. Make in that. I can't protect the writer, and I got time to do it. Let me all right. Tell Nick Lara when I see. So I went up Steve as I am to do that before. Spoke back quickly advantage. He had nobody. But a Kentucky. Good, dan. My father. And I'm all right for me to write alive. General quite. I did you have to go into great mundane that were controversial during his life and unpleasant the families that just record ball and his wife Mary ship. All right. He acted a cheating a good sport about that. And chart at that. She died other things intervene into life day is not yet. Delighting to remember that after the civil war clay has put Visteon prepped, you tell us something he had. Birth. Glam vision beginning when he got back from the AM strange enough. How did it? But he won two straight terms and the state out. You'd have told you our goal in the sixty rather than the United States Senate. Then of course, he wanted to take a day of war in Lincoln's cabinet. Got across to Petersburg. He bested Lincoln about getting into the war on dill Lincoln, finally eight him come back about teams to made a major. You a couple of battle. But he found out that the night at work. In our interest and went back to Russia. Where are you? Tonight. He lives I think a candidate for governor. I remember directly later on in his life. Whatever political admissions, he had I think he surely must have known that. He could hardly realize them matter principle and much as he such that only say, but they just. I want to seem the letters that he sent to Charles Dane suggestion himself to the president. I very sure that he cable. Will come Kent. Good beer. Is good to talk about the Kentucky civil around table. It's a great institution that is a great institution now. So let's talk about William towns in for a minute. Who is he Bill as we I knew Bill, and he he was born in Anderson county Kentucky, and that's lawrenceburg, and there's even a historical marker it is birth site. Bill was raised there. He is the only person I've ever known in my life who turned to me and told me of the Mexican war veterans. He knew growing up. That takes it back pretty far. He was born about eighteen ninety. And he died in nineteen sixty four, but he knew just a lot of people who not only Mexican war veterans, but particularly civil war veterans, and he became enamored with history as a young boy, he went to the university of Kentucky. And then the university of Kentucky law school. And began practicing law here in Lexington and practice practice it under a firm called stall Muir, Townsend and park, and they were in the old first national building on main street and upper and he took his interest in history to some significant links one he became a namrd with ABRAHAM LINCOLN. And I think what got him into Lincoln was his friendship with William Barton. William Barton was one of the great Lincoln scholars in the nineteen thirties and forties. He wrote a biography wrote a two volume biography from Kentucky. No, but Barton befriended Townsend, and he introduced house into a lot of people like Carl Sandberg, who of course, ROY. A multi volume biography of ABRAHAM LINCOLN towns than wound up writing a book called Lincoln in his in his wife's hometown, which show is a study of Lincoln's connection with Lexington. And that became a book the university of Kentucky press. Now, the university press of Kentucky published as Lincoln and the bluegrass in the nineteen fifties. And it was a very popular book. When I was a boy. And so those were his major books, but then he also produced all sorts of other side things like a book called hundred proof which were stories of the Salt River. These are stories he grew up with well now, he's from the town that that houses the wild Turkey still. As as the as the as his talk that we've just heard the fragment. He laced everything with references to bourbon whiskey refers to it in their is Kentucky tavern. I think Carl Sandberg would like a little Kentucky tavern of. But Bill became the first president. He's really the organizing a person behind the Kentucky civil war roundtable and was its first president until he died nineteen sixty four. So that's Bill. Yes. And now he had some other connections with ABRAHAM LINCOLN. Will he he was a collector? Yes, linked Konia. He collected all sorts of Lincoln documents Lincoln legals Lincoln signatures. He also befriended as a young lawyer here in Lexington. The the son of Benjamin Hardin helm, the confederate Brigadier General who was. Killed at chick Amata and his his son Ben Hardin helm junior lived south of Lexington in a place still called the helm place was brought up there by his mother who was the widow of general helm, Emily and two sisters. Well, let's talk about Emily for a minute. She has a very important connection to ham Lincoln. She has a huge connection of as do all. These are Emily is one of the children of the second marriage of Robert Todd who was married Todd Lincoln's father her mother died relatively young and Todd remarried, married, Elizabeth Humphreys and from that second marriage. He had multiple children one of whom was Emily. So Emily is the half sister of Mary Todd Lincoln, and she's the one who married Ben Hardin helm, the confederate Brigadier General, one of those interesting things about all this, frankly is who in Robert Todd's, the children of his first marriage all became fundamentally pro union during the civil war is daughter Mary Todd, married, the president of the United States, but the children from his second marriage all of Mary Todd, Lincoln's half siblings. All all the boys became confederate officers or confederate soldiers. All the girls married confederate officers. Two of them even lived in Selma, Alabama in the war broke out stitch together. The battle flag of the magnolia graze from a company of infantry from Selma and both of them attended Jefferson, Davis's inaugural. Imagine that all this kind of stuff in Namur Billtown. He loved this stuff. And it's so much of what he did. Form the platform on which so much. Other work has been done on Lincoln his relationship with Lexington. Which is probably the third most important town in his life. Well, and Phil ends up. Marrying the beautiful daughter of his friend, Ben Hardin, helm junior and ends up living, no less than in the home place. He didn't marry the daughter. Okay. I've been Hardin how junior he befriended. Ben. Okay. Then was a bachelor. Okay. And Ben lived out there. Now, what happened was that built Howson's daughter? Mary Genevieve, Mary Joe Murphy and those two lived in the hell place. I see that works. Okay. I had that MC Steph a little bit. Okay. He Bill basically took care of been helm junior. And Ben apparently turned to Bill and said look at a it's all years if you take care of me, and you know without pensions and without. All sorts of nursing care, and those days, it was nice to have someone agree to help you and it was worth a lot. And for Ben hell, that's what he did. And Bill took care of him. And at the end Bill got the house gave it to his daughter and been out there. Many many times with Bill daughter and her husband, so lovely place. It's beautiful a lovely place. A Greek revival mansion building out eighteen fifty two beautiful place. So that's built towns, and what are some of the artifacts he collected? And where could we see them today? We'll. Some of the Lincoln artifacts. Let me give you a story. I like story. My first introduction with Bill. Townsend was in November nineteen fifty nine. Now, I would have been ten going on eleven and I went to the Kentucky civil war roundtable when it was it was being held in the gold room of the Lafayette hotel. Which is now the government building down on mainstream. Then it was a beautiful hotel Laureus ballrooms, and and the round table met in this the gold room, which is absolutely gorgeous. Anyway, my host who was also my the family doctor William team accent asked me would you like to go up and meet Mr. Townsend, and I said I'd love to. 'cause I'd heard about him. And so I went up there and up they're going up there with us was Dr maxim son film action who was a young chum of mine growing up and has been a friend of mine ever since is to this day and like his father. He's a loyal member the Kentucky civil war around table. So I went up to see this fellow in here is this this fellow with the three piece suit seated in the chair behind the speaker stand, and he sees us come up, and he turns in the chair. And he Wight white hair as he says shock of white hair. And he's got this three piece suit with his watch fob. And and he turns into goes, how are you young fellow? And I said, I'm fine. He says I'm Bill Townsend, and I said, well, I'm can't Brown. And this is my friend, Phil Maxon. And towns and shook Phil's hand. And he goes to me do you like a Lincoln? And I said, oh, yes. Mr. towns than I really do like ABRAHAM LINCOLN. Now, get this, folks. He then reaches into his pocket and pulls out a pocket watch. And he says to you know, who's watch this is and I go, no. And he turns it over and it has on the back a Lincoln. And he said, it's Abraham Lincoln's. And he says you see this crease up by the stem. And I said, yes, he says Tina how that crease got there. I said, no. And he says when Lincoln was shot in Ford's better. He said he slumped in the chair and major Rathbone who is his bodyguard ran over and tried to pull him out of the chair and the watch got caught. Now, can you imagine the effect of this on a ten year old kid? My eyes were just popping out of my head. I know we probably would have left head off after this little little deal with me. But he was wearing Lincoln's pocket watch. And then he said, do you know, who's cufflinks these are on? I said they Lincoln's to he says, they are they were he said he wore them the night. He was assassinated see Ben helm gave him those and Ben got him. Because I mean, he he was a. He lived a long time and in that family. The only other living member was raw. It was Abraham Lincoln's oldest son, Robert Robert Todd Lincoln, and Robert Todd would have had them and probably given them Ben Ben helm because there was no one else to take them. So the proven ons of them was darn good those were like artifacts. And those items today as I understand are in the Kentucky. Historical sino. The I have seen the watch at the condition. Historical. Yeah. It's actually in Frankfurt. Yeah. Cufflinks? We don't know. I don't know. And are the famous Lincoln collector of whose name escapes me. It'll come to me but out west actually, I think bought. A lot of the Lincoln artifacts from Mary Genevieve well after Bill passed away she had no way of knowing what to do with all of that. And it was extensive not only Lincoln, but all kinds of things related to cash. Clay, Kentucky, Anna Kentucky history. Bill is a huge collector. Yeah. So so when you met Mr. Townsend as a young boy. Yeah, he was the president was the president the Kentucky civil roundtable. So let's talk about what are these roundtables that you're referencing? What what how did these get going? The the God going frankly with the Chicago civil war roundtable this Chicago, civil war roundtable, the organization that Bill gave that famous speech to fragment which you just heard. He gave out in nineteen fifty two October of nineteen fifty two Chicago civil around table began not too far before then, and it's whole mission was simply to have meetings than like, Chicago roundtable were meeting monthly, but having meetings where they could invite notable speakers and then discuss the American civil war and give people an opportunity to to do that. And that roundtable was put together much like this one by people who had an academic interest in the civil war were academics. But also people who simply had an avocation interest in the civil war some people who had a commercial interest in the civil war like the the owner of the ABRAHAM LINCOLN bookshop in Chicago in Chicago, which is still being operated. A Ralph Newman was his name. And these people had huge interest in not just to sell things, but an interest themselves. That's what got them into the business of of running a bookshop like that. So all those kind of people came together in Chicago, they referred to it as a table because that was kind of the the vision of this something like king Arthur's of famous crew that sat around round table in Britain. And these were the select, and that's kind of the thought behind it. And once the Chicago civil war roundtable began going in earnest you saw some other start to spring up. The second one though was the Kentucky civil war roundtable. And what happened was Bill went up there and gave that speech, and he was so well. Saved. I mean, it was a tremendous. And he went up there with his old friend j Winston Cullman who is another really close friend of mine for years. We were great buddies other two of them went up there. Townsend and Coleman were inseparable, and he gave that talk and came back so fired up about the idea of an organization had just had speakers on the civil war that he decided why don't we form one? And so in October nineteen sixty nineteen fifty three. Bill Townsend called an informal group to his law office on main street and to discuss forming forming around table and by the way by nineteen October nineteen fifty three. That speech. He gave had already been put on thirty three and a third RPM records, and we're sold all over the country. Civil around him. Benefit of ABRAHAM LINCOLN books you. Yes. Yes. No man was recording. This unbeknownst Bill towns. And here's a funny story about that Bill. I mean, people were asking if you got the record that you of your of your of your speech, Bill goes, hell, no, hell, no. Like this. No one ever told me he was being recorded. He really got mad about it. And he threatened to sue Ralph Newman for for doing that. But then one day he gets a letter in the mail that up on the upper left of the envelope. Breeds the White House. And and he opened this envelope up and unfolds the letter, and it says, dear Mr. Townsend Mamie, and I have listened to your recording on caches, Marcellus clay, and we found it. The most entertaining speech we ever heard signed to David Eisenhower and with that he gave up all thoughts of suing round. Win viral viral viral in nineteen fifty three and it went viral thirty three and a third. By the way, their people to this day will come up to me at the roundtable or the places they do you have a copy of that speech. Bill towns, if you don't got one I can give you. I mean, it's just you can't imagine the number of people that don't copies of that to me. Unbelievable. So ours was founded in started in nineteen fifty three and let me let me tell you some of the people who are with him who. These are the founding spirits around hip, of course, Bill Townsend. He's he's holding forth in his own law. Herman Lee Donovan who was president of the university of Kentucky. I didn't know Dr Donovan, but he had a marvelous reputation in this town. Then eighty kirwin kirwin. I knew kirwin ABC kirwin was the was a historian did some extraordinarily fine work on John J Crittenden and then Johnny green of the orphan brigade. He's the one who originally edited that fine book kirwin came from Louisville. He played football at the university of Kentucky and became during World War Two the football coach, and you can imagine in the middle of World War Two. What Kentucky's football team was like not much. It wasn't much throughout my young life. But it must've been really at a low ebb during Curran's coaching tenure there and he became president of the university Kentucky. So he was there a great historian. But also, a an early administrator of the university of Kentucky a home in Hamilton was their home and became a very, dear dear friend of mine, and and. And Homan Homan came from Fort, Wayne, Indiana, he went to Williams College, and then got into journalism and was a a newspaper man for the Fort Wayne news, and while he was a newspaper man, he wrote the two volume biography of saccharine Taylor. And he was he's like Bill Townsend he had a profession, but he was so interested in history that he writes two volumes. The only Barbara Fay's Baga fee of Zachary Taylor ever done. I mean, far as I'm concerned, and then he decided in midlife I'm going to go I'm gonna get up. So he gets up at the university of Kentucky, and then becomes a professor. So he's attending this meeting as a fellow who is in his final years. It is getting his PHD. In history, and he became one of the most popular historians and professors ever at the university of Kentucky. And if you knew him, you'd know why he's was the perfect gentleman. A- terrific human being also present was another old friend for whom I worked for many years Hamilton tap. Dr tap came from Springfield Kentucky. Went to center. College was a graduate of the class of nineteen twenty two. And he was there for the famous football was there during nineteen twenty one the famous football game with Harvard, and I asked him once if he went he said, no I didn't go the game. But we went down to the Western Union office and listen for it. And they would they would announce as the cables came across. They would go out on the front straight announce Senator just gained two yards. Bobick Mellon took the ball to the right and his tackled around the thirty six yard line of. As close as you got. But. Ham as we all called him became a professor at the university of a longtime educator and became a professor at the university. But more than that, he became the head of the Kentucky life museum, which is now wave land state park out off the Hague mill pike, and I used to work for him out there. But he was he was president j Winston Cullman engineered developer and a amateur history. Really not amateurs were isn't words overused. He was a serious historian wrote a lot of pamphlets a lot of good books and was a great photographer. And so he wrote a lot of photographic works on Kentucky's history. Willard rouse Gylfason, the state geologist who I mean, he's one of the great historians of Kentucky's frontier. Period. Living in Frankfurt. He was a terrific character. A so these were the types that formed the Kentucky around nitsa talented group. A group to say I feel like the leadership still maintains a lot of talent a lot of connections with the university of Kentucky. There's a high level of academic excellence represented there and the roundtables able to draw speakers of just the highest caliber from all over the country. It's an amazing organization. What happened after that initial meeting? They had a second one in Herman Donovan's office at the university. And they're the same group elected the temporary officers and then in November of nineteen fifty three before forty five charter members they conducted their first meeting at the UK student union, and they voted to make those temporary officers permanent. And that was built Townsend as the as the president of the roundtable. And then Hamilton tap as the secretary. He was the secretary for twenty plus years, maybe say nineteen fifty three. Oh, I guess twenty two years. I mean, he was forever. The secretary around able he had a great way with words, which I'll read to you shortly. But. So Edward Dabney who is a banker here in town. The old First National Bank became the treasurer. And they were in the same building is built housing and then the head an executive committee. They put together and get these names Thomas Dyonisis Clark, Tom Clarke, the great story published. Multiple works on Kentucky history. An terrific. Character was one of the he was one of the founding executive committee members of it. Jay Winston, Cullman, Herman dodd-frank Frank rose who is president of Transylvania university. Even Philip Davidson who is president of the university of Louisville, and then Charles farms Lee, who was mayor of Louisville on the executive Willard rouse Gelson that was the crowd that was on the executive committee around any now even today at the meetings are members from Louisville Frankfort long every lurk Sinti, Anna Wease released on the tug fork. So the tradition of traveling to the to the meetings is still from across Kentucky is still it's still it's still mid still maintained. There was there's been something you could tell it as a ten year old attending a meeting downtown. Everyone in. There was one dressed up a number two. They all imbibed before the the meal, which was almost a tradition. It's a ceremoniously imbibed and then sat down for dinner, and we're waited on. They liked to have sit down dinner, and you could tell by just as young kid that these people were one seriously interested in the civil war. They may not know a lot about it. But they're serious interested in learning and they're gentlemen, it was all men then and they were kind to one another. They enjoyed one another's company and that camaraderie. Has been evident throughout the entire life of this organization. Yeah. And it's today persist today, we have men and lots of women who come. Yes. There's still a sense of there's a sense of formality as well as a sense of camaraderie, and it is a great occasion five times a year when people still do that. And like from the very beginning. We do only five meetings a year. This has been a tradition from the very beginning. And we made on in September November January March and may. So if nothing overburdened no-one a Monday night a Monday night. Yeah. And it always to you always depart and a timely way. Never it. It always ends round eight thirty after the speaker and the QNA after the dinners been served speaker gets up. It really is a great occasion move. Yeah. You know, Bill Bill towns died on July twenty fifth nineteen sixty four. Okay. And. The gentleman who became by acclimation, the president of the roundtable on his death was home in Hamilton. And one thing I'll always loved about. This roundtable was the. How well versed in the language all these characters were they really were. You've you heard Bill Townsend. But home in Hamilton was a spectacular rider, a spectacular master of the English language as was Hamilton tap. And the things they wrote about one another about events there. We're we're classic. But this is what Holman Hamilton said at the first meeting of the roundtable after in September after Bill passed away. And he said he said this. Tonight. I would not say a word about the career of William H Townsend or about the charming books. He wrote or the professional triumphs. He scored these are in this fear of common knowledge now appreciation of them has appropriately passed into the public domain and posterity will be earth. Ultimate judge permit me instead to voice for you. What any of you his sincere friends would surely say let it be underscored here. And now that Bill Townsend in this organization built a solid community of spirit and s spray a delightful appreciation of man for man, a brotherliness a rare achievement of. Affection without the slightest sign of affection. This do we not agree is the best in Kentucky. This is friendship. Others might use the very words he used, but those same words would fall lifeless and dull he had a sense of timing a significant pause and awareness of contrast and a flare of drama if Kentucky inns have long combined in an amazingly attractive way characteristics of the earthly and genteel. Here was a man who above all others represented the quintessence of the combination. How rich the heritage how pervasive the influence? How meaningful the tradition? Even we cannot finally say, but who would deny that the colors in the tapestries have Kentucky's historic past seem less likely to fade because a Bill Townsend color, charm, imaginative excursions, tantalizing anecdotes and the zest for reporte. We experienced them all at first hand because we knew it. Ours is a treasure of cultural comradeship with a premium far beyond material calculation, and that salty son of Anderson county is that catalyst to whom we are all indebted like Mark Twain, whom in many ways Bill Townsend so strongly resembles may we not paraphrase the lines of the Australian, poet, Robert Richardson. Warm summer sun shine kindly here. Warm Sud southern wind blow softly here. Green sod above li-, light light good night. Dear friend, goodnight. Goodnight. That's an example, just how incredible. I'm people each list with how beautiful eulogy the most beautiful I ever read ever heard. But that's what he said in that night. The. The the the speaker for the roundtable was the the great historian bell Irvin. Wiley bell. Was a graduate of as berry and got his PHD at Yale. And. Taught it Louisiana state university. And. Then taught at Emory and people like Charlie Roland like Otis single, Terry. Who is president of the university of Kentucky, bud Robertson? They were all students Abell Wiley bell. Wiley was the dean literally the dean of American civil war history. And he wrote not only great books himself. Johnny Ravin, Billy yank to volumes. But he wrote two he edited tons of memoirs and diaries of mostly confederate soldiers because he came from Tennessee and bell was the speaker the night that home and gave that talk and bell got up and before he began his talk. He said built Townsend. Represents to me more of what I love about Kentucky than any human being. I've ever know. What attribute? So. That's a remarkable tribute from Bill. Yeah. Yeah. Wonderful and we've gone through a whole crowd of great presidents. I mean home, and of course, became the president for a significant period of time. I think more than ten years and after Hohmann iae buddy Thompson became president. He is an auction near here in town and real character total character and after him Charlie Roland became president of the roundtable. And of course, we know Charlie Charlie's hundred one year years old this month. He was president from nineteen eighty four until nineteen ninety four and Charlie like Bill Wylie came from east, Tennessee, bell Wiley, love Charlie roll out. He middle issue. But Charlie got his PHD at LSU after getting a master's degree at Vanderbilt, but. Charlie taught at Tulane university. And then became professor of history at the university of Kentucky, and he was above the last of a group of historians at the university all of whom were connected with around table who were among the greatest southern historians in America, one of one of the greatest departments of southern history and in the country and Charlie held forth at the roundtable for for ten years, and Charlie is still is a character. But he carried that torch on through until nineteen ninety four and then James clutter became president. And when he left Jack Cunningham longtime treasure the roundtable took over a lawyer here in town, and then I took over in nineteen two thousand thirteen that's the genealogy. The roundtable the roundtable. Mr. Townsend was something of a poet as well. Your film bourbon in Kentucky begins with a poem. He wrote. That I hope our listeners will look into the film is called bourbon, Kentucky bourbon in Kentucky history distilled. Right. Yeah. And you can see it off and on Kentucky educational television. Yes. And through other forms. I think it's probably. On prime on prime it is. But if you gins with you before portrait of William towns in the old helm place, right reciting, a poem. He wrote about bourbon, right? Yeah. It's a it's a it's a poem. He he wrote about his friend. Jay Winston Cullman. Okay. And without going through all the poem. Yeah. What it is. Talks about how the two of them sit down in front of a fire and talk about Daniel Boone Zachary Taylor, and how they sip are corn. That we'll end this episode the witnessing history education foundation podcast. Thank you. Become an American hero. Who participates in our mission by joining us at witnessing history dot ORG. Download our documentaries and free teacher education materials that conform to grade level education standards at PBS, learning dot ORG follow witnessing history on Facebook, Twitter and linked in.

Bill Bill towns Kentucky Bill Townsend president university of Kentucky Mary Todd Lincoln William H Townsend Lincoln Kentucky tavern Abraham Lincoln Chicago university of Kentucky press Ben Ben helm Lexington Ben Hardin Holman Hamilton Lexington Kentucky university of Kentucky law sch
Part 2: Royal Ascot: Jaime Nicolson, Seth Merrow

At The Races With Steve Byk

1:31:29 hr | Last month

Part 2: Royal Ascot: Jaime Nicolson, Seth Merrow

"Or who will steve. We're back second-half on this wednesday. And i mentioned as we were heading out to the break that There's gonna be a a news release Right about now at this hour. Alex waldrop after a very successful tenure at the n. t. r. a. is announcing his retirement at the end of the year. He's been at anterior fifteen years and of course You know the the best The best achievement And one of the really important things that has been accomplished over the last few years was the you know the change to the withholding gambling winnings and as a centerpiece for his tenure. Dra worked tirelessly to make it happen. And it's been you know we haven't thought much about it because it's now part of the really part of the firmament But alex has enjoyed a really interesting and varied. I will look forward to talking to him about this. He's had an interesting and varied career. I i in fact I don't know people everybody recalls. Or he's aware that he was president. Churchill for a period and the courses got a lawyer by trade and has extensive experience and understanding Of all the working parts around the game around the industry I had so many conversations over really to say had his tenure overlaps how long the show has been on. And we've we've had that at least one visit with alex annually at least the usually more Because there's certainly been so many different areas where anti array is because tried to help the industry and we'll see if there's We'll see there's another role for him They're certainly i think we'll be some speculation about something else for him to do you know given the landscape That more looking at Some very nice. I'm just reading. The press release is now gone out. And here's a nice Some very nice things Have alex Was the right person at the right time. To lead the anterior stabilize the organization refocus its fission core functions and produce results. That have it will continue to benefit our industry in the future. This from alan foreman. Of course alan alan's on the he's one of the directors as well drew. Fleming and and josh rubenstein quartered as well. You're talking about things like You know there's really if you think about it. There really have been any number of initiatives the the safety and integrity Alliance which i know. Some people don't really don't really know what's involved but you know the accreditation program That was put together Steve cook a big big part of that effort and creating a set of standards and working parameters for racetracks and things that are so behind the scenes The safety rails and and the the alarm systems. They're just you know there's there's so many things about it. Is that a the complexity of running a business and and sport and that's a that was an excellent response to an industry challenge the safety integrity alliance. the sierra advantage. I just kind of skimming along year. That program again. The some of this behind the scenes that players and fans might not be aware of or you understand the benefits. but yeah that's been a big hit of course we know which has grown exponentially as well. We look forward to talking to alex. And we'll see I i know that the they'll be Speculation about whether. There's a role for for alex. The play at At isa you would imagine and we'll see also What direction interior takes i mean certainly gonna keep shambling essentially as the general manager On a day to day basis and does a tremendous job too. So we'll see we'll see where this This goes but Alex waldrop after fifteen years Retiring from from antioch Let's use these next couple of minutes to look ahead to the third. Were four minutes to post at at ascot. The duke of cambridge and then We'll visit with jamie. Nicholson afterward now. Let's see what we're looking at here and queen. Power your favorite Sir michael with semester. Desouza this is the king. Power racing shammar doll mayor and very close second choice. Double or bubble five to one a. With james doyle and lady both or up lady both or she was tucked up underneath. There didn't see five to two favorite actually five to two favorite and for cavalier He respects lady both or lavender's blue He thinks might might take to the fast ground in particular lavender's blue and you're looking at fourteen two once we got a thirty dollar player here for cav and also he's in posted Who lavender blue is. The nine and posted has also about the same price. Thirteen to one. This is richard hannon william buick and this is also a spot. This was the play that vance hansen had interest in. valeria mess. Alina as well right. That was that was his day to Interest the thirteen There was a scratch here. So there's there's You had a fifteen to one shot. bounce the blues you can scratch the five but shops thirteen to one. The one from st shida lady both or five to two karen. Show mark for william jarvis queen power as mentioned four to one second choice now agincourt She's been around six years old David amirah with danny hope. Sixteen to one the six bubble five to one four wrought the dubai we philly roger varian twenty three to one indy angel shirley park gosden the franko eight to one. You'd think that that might be a little On those connections a little bit value. Dark angel philly the ni- lavender's blue cavs price. Play fourteen to one onassis irish-bred to buy for charlie fellows kelly turner aboard nineteen to one parents prayer. The eleven archie watson and highly doyle. Ten to one there's posted cavs other price. Play fourteen to one and valeria mess selena. Which was the idea of the hanson. let's take a look and see how close they are. They're doing some warm ups so we can watch for that and I appreciate Our friend freddy that Reminds me thanks for this freddie cj murkowski undergoing surgery and of course Known to you as time for forum. Us figs and best wishes to c. J. he's Under the knife as we speak so Besta to cj so many so many of you know and that appreciate Jamie nicholson after the race. And let me see what else i can tell you about this group. The duca cambridge interesting. This this also just looking at winners notes. Also got kind of a varied horses kind of coming from many different avenues and And actually not even necessarily coming out of wins this race. We're going to go a mile on the straight so speed. I think that's probably the idea that kev had here with this lavender's blue He also mentions that she's She's got a first time cheek pieces and that would be a fun discussion about What the what the furry cheek pieces what they do for ores when they wear them that that i'm going to make a note of that. That's a fun. That's a fun Equipment no cheek pieces. We don't we don't get we don't get that you see horses wearing them in the us but not the it's not a. It's not a prominent goto equipment. Change all right. They are getting ready to load. Had no real change the pricing. Let me get this. Some of this out of my way also do wanna give you some of yesterday's other racing including canterbury and hannah the pick. Fives just crazy. Just paying two and three times a parlay every single day and i typically just gotta sniff out one or two horses in them. It's consistent consistent value. All right come on. They're they're they're they're running shockingly late mrs not usually a not usually a venue that that runs behind but They're actually milling. And i wonder if there's an issue here because they are looks like somebody's gonna get a blindfold they're gonna put the hood. They're gonna put the hood on one here. Looks like the five No can't be the five because the five scratch. that's the worst scratched. Who is that that they put the hood on. Here's the three Actually queen power. Wow all right. They got they. Put the blindfold. Then they got the blanket. That's the other one you know the putting the blanket on the hindquarters. That's another Stunt yeah to get them go all right. Now we're loading up the duke of cambridge's straight mild. Then good luck to everybody in here here. We go halfway through the loading says and champions elise the next to leave a false ago parents prayer and posted lady both all india angel on the for that are out of line. Posted parents had likewise the last two india. Job there in sets and they're off and a slow start from agean core in the of cambridge sakes group sue over the straight ma install seen well parents tre on the right near side farside posted on the bureau with double bubble terra. Cotta jacket lady thorpe away. Okay the mainly purple jacket. Just in midfield valeria miss elina. The nearside fulla shampoos elise. The black and yellow stripes over on the far side thoroughfare along with lavender's blue the grey and black checks queen power india angel agean core the back three and just in front of those highly turner last year. Sandringham winner as it is parents crab and posted the disputants here is the field have completed their first three furlongs headings award. Halfway parents prayer attempting to make with posted on the far side lady both care schumacher in third place. Just ahead of valeria selena. Double o bubble has just drawbacks. Ob fifth but still close up fully by the strong traveling onassis and then shampoos and ben cowan queen power. Just getting to work now to sues or asking us to get a bit closer that blue and white with thorough lavender's blue in the angel and coal. Last year's runner-up still back three as they run down towards the two and now lady both office asked to try mound challenge onassis going well following by parents packing out of double o bobbly trying very hard lavender's blue the far side getting into it in the angel the nearside running on strongly story up for grabs lady both all india angel insurers elise the nearside india angel the nearside over the center is lady both aw is least chasing with queen. Power is in the angel and frankie in front and india. Angel has chunk of cambridge's over second queen power at lady both thought then champions elise and lavender's blue ahead all forearms. Well i'm not gonna. I'm not gonna break my arm patting myself on the back but how do you have you not take an interest in chevrolet park john gosden and frankie dettori at eight to one. They said if you're looking for value just on connections had a right that that was just that was just obvious. Wow unbelievable. I'm telling you you didn't have to be christian and i'll tell you what in the angel floated up a little bit ended up thirteen to one. Didn't get any late money and wins clear. Here wins i in the near side versus the far side. Eight two three one lady. Both or the two one favorite second in here and queen. Power third shoppers. Elysee fourth eight two three one. And i got to tell you the most interesting part of that Call to me was a a word that i've never heard used in in the way in which it was used Disputants an attack. Got to tell you i may. I may not move fast enough to get to the jockey club. The online names book but for hundred dollars. Disputants is a l- good horse name right. Yeah how about that dispute. I like that. The students india lady both or queen power. Shoppers lease eight. Two three one in the duke of cambridge and If you're connections player you know one of the great one of the great owner breeders in the sport chevrolet park one of the greatest trainers in the game's history john gosden and one of the great writers in World thoroughbred racing history. Frankie frankie dettori thirteen to one this. This is like when this is like when Clark or peter brant and chad and and iran win at at you know as the fourth or fifth choice. This was this one was I dunno i hope some people Punched it up there. You go all right. Let's pause that and we'll look ahead to some today's group one feature the prince of wales which is a breeders cup win. And you're in and we. None of none of none of the ideas from from mark is came through in this In this spot So we'll look ahead to the basically the more or less the second half Including the two year old windsor castle. Which goes off at twelve. Thirty five The royal hunt cup Which is a big fund field as well at noon. And the kensington palace A stake handicap as the nightcap. We're going to visit with jamie. Nicholson and i owed. I o jamie two calls so you're going to get. You're going to get two books for the price one With this visit and it is summer reading season. So we're going to have a few conversations and last year jamie sent me a book. You just to be nice Essentially which was his nineteen sixty eight a pivotal moment in american sports and set with a note and said there's really not a lot of racing in here but I thought you might enjoy it. And then on its heels. Came racing for america the horse race of the century and the redemption of a sport. It's always a pleasure to get a visit with jamie. Nicholson and jamie. How are you. I'm great steve. Thanks for having me on. Not at all and i i you know the book the book is it. It's a it's smaller. In fact both of them both of them are a really fun size and they remind me they remind me of Books i had as a kid the the punt pass and kick library. You know those great running backs to the nfl. Remember those. I do i'm my my parents Folks shells yeah housley. They're readable signed. Exactly exactly it. It you know you can. You can cradle. You can cradle it easily in in one hand. Which i you know i i like to have i. Sometimes in a big bulky big oversize hard bound is is a handful This is this is actually a terrific story. Let's start with the more recent racing for america. First because i it's it's an obscure match race. That i i think as a topic is going to be noodle water readerswe. It is that sort of surprise me in doing the research. At how big of a deal. It was at the time compared to how quickly it just it. Just kinda vanished from from People's memories in kind of the history of the sport it just It is kind of obscure now but at the time it was. It wasn't as big of a deal as type this as anything in the in the nineteen twenties in terms of you know that golden age scored. Well we're talking about zev and papyrus and first of all what what even attracted you to this race. You know i was. I was into a a another figur- in In horse racing at sems who pops up as a as a minor character. And i just kept coming back to his his contemporary claire who Was was running under the rank coca stables share And i he just seemed like a fascinating character that i want to know more about an kind of stumbled into into them. You know kind of through the side door But but but i was. I was so that was interesting enough for us but does this event Match race between nineteen twenty-three kentucky derby when there and that year's derby winner the pirates What is what is this. And i it. It rang a bell i was. I was vaguely aware of the this existed. But i didn't didn't realize how how. How important was how how much attention to eat machine in the newspapers. You know the not just the not just the the racing publications but sports pages really across the country at a time when men had Had had been an equine celebrity As well but but this was a time when when when racing was still kind of returning to to mainstream status and racing down outlawed in most day of the decade or two before and so this is a deal how it and of course i mean just the fact that you got a darby winner versus the derby winner. I mean that that part of it is fun and kind of a natural but how how did the to power they brought together. Who was the catalyst. August belmont Seized on the the the opportunity to pretty a spectacle of a big race. Now i think the the opportunity arose because the the papyrus zone of engineering irish an englishman was was while hardly poor was was not Not necessarily welcome. Their embraced in aristocratic racing circles in england and whereas some contemporaries would have and did kind of look at look down their nose at american racing american horses. He was He was intrigued by Hundred thousand dollars purse. That was dangled at twenty thousand loser and he received some some film was most most owners would have would have scoffed at at the idea of putting their garbage on a boat to to run in the in the dirt and in this case what turned out to be the soupy mess That's film on this. This owner was was intrigued with some rope in by bag august belmont and his associates from that standpoint. Having you know having a you know a darby winner come over. And i know the fact that you fold in the match race scenarios which you know which go back into the eighteen. Hundreds i mean the the the whole the whole basis of the sport came from match racing. And these were on until you know until the end of match racing For obvious reasons with roughing in and when these would come about as they did seem to come out. You know a lot of times. Organically i mean. Obviously you know the war. Admiral seabiscuit match race in continues to have like a A magical hold on the lore of of match race history right. They're they're they're interesting as idea 'cause on the one hand right it's it's it's kind of the in some sense. The essence of horse racing. My my horse is faster than your horse and on the other hand. It's it's it's something different when when A race the fulfilled has forces with with different styles and different preferences and and to have just a just the to horsfield it It's removes that that element. It's it's easy easier to market You know it like a like a boxing match and the the international aspect of this race was what made it unique at the time. This was the united states versus great britain. It was in the wake of world. war wine. i am going to that in the book is that it will complicated but The the temptation for people writing about six race of american hunters pursued shooter was to say. Here's the Here's the american horse. We're gonna we're gonna be those those snobby grits and or really take it and the tried to put zev in the in the underdog framed with a little a little bit awkward He he was very accomplished and and there was also the the the reality with his own was was hardly an underdog he gotten Extremely wealthy oil and was his name was starting to appear in newspaper headlines for what became the one of the biggest corruption scam vocal cones scandals twentieth century. The teapot dome scandal It was it was a took a bit of torsion to to try to frame them in a way that would be easily embraced violent. But but that's that's what happened on the other hand. That's probably why he fairly soon after ceased to be a household name american sports culture. And that i mean that is is kind of the the back. End of this The you know the not the epilogue but it. It does go a long way. Because the sinclair ended up serving time right he ends up in jail. He managed to beat the criminal charges but but ended up serving time for contempt of the senate and contempt of court Jury tampering and stuff Associated with with with the trial so he soon thereafter faded out of racing and he just Whereas you could imagine a different words that would be remembered alongside The big names of of The the nineteen twenties but I i suspect that that's just not what anybody wanted to hold up as As as an icon of The race itself and you kinda hinted at it the the backdrop that the twenties represents and you mentioned you know in the teens. And i've i've made reference to this too that you go back to one thousand nine hundred nineteen o nine nineteen ten th the the sport essentially ground to a halt in this country with only two jurisdictions you know through the gambling blackout Only kentucky and maryland had any continuity in racing and then after you know after the in the aftermath of of the blackout racing was trying to reestablish and and you know it should be noted this is only you know ten eleven twelve years later and so when you when you subtitle this the horse race at the century and the redemption of a sport. It kind of comes with that. And then you also you you reference the golden age of sport the twenties which you know between between babe ruth and bobby jones and jack dempsey and and man a war. I mean you had a parade of Just glittering sports stars so the twenties the roaring twenties a big part of this and nineteen twenty-three a perfect a perfect harmony to you know to have an event like this was and it was It was a economically. It was the the country was was booming. Culturally it was. It was bracing professional sports spectator sports. Sports journalism was was becoming big business. So here's an opportunity for Horse racing to to join that Joined that culture. But the problem was that for much of the proposed to catch every still a stigma associated with with racing with With gambling. it'd it had been paying as as a just a a something be a radical during the during the progressive and amid there's reform movement so that was that was why this event was i think so so important it didn't cause a a resurgents But it certainly celebrated and it made all the this was. This was weeks of of positive exposure for the sport during the during the league as as his papers across the country or or picking up these Reports of how the horse training and biographical sketches of john and the trainers and And so i think it helped heads. Groups in in various states tried to Get racing to Return and fighting in in the state legislatures over over how they had to worth a lot of a lot of these Proponents of embracing would say we're gonna we're gonna have a high class sport here in Don't don't worry about that Other stuff in in the past. We're going to have horses right. Like they have been and you remember that brace and it's going to be like that so that's about and it helped I think it's acilitator but he The re rebirth of grazing storms and thirties. When it came to when it came to the actual race you mentioned that you know we end up not having ideal conditions mean talk. I don't know if we want to There's a lot of people that may have heard of zevon papyrus and the match race but they might not know the outcome. I don't know for we taking the drama out of it if we if we tell them who won or how. The race unfolded well. I i don't think so. It's kind of The ultimately the race itself was rather any. The significance is is the drama. Is betting happens. And and how it How it came to be but no it was had a lot of wings In the day or two before the the race and it was the track was when sam was very sloppy of a british observer. said it resembled french mustard. And so it's that that made a difficult task for papyrus you even harder and there was some question that whether papyrus trainer sort of should've used more appropriate shoes didn't it didn't matter that that became the the the the popular explanation. He lost out on chance because he was using smooth shoes but The the the he ended up losing nine and a half apartments loses by by five lengths and really wasn't wasn't very expensive at at any point but it had attracted A big a big crowd estimates ranged wildly but Fifty thousand kind of been in the middle of those and more importantly the crown included a lot of influential Society types Fashionable people And the the coverage of newspaper coverage of the of the makeup of the of of the crowd was was helpful because the the Issued that reformers at painted of of of race track racetrack characters was was what's been flattering And and this helped convince people that but maybe racing isn't so bad it was good respectable folk that the can can enjoy a horse ranch too so you might not spoiling the end to say that. The the american horse prevailed and Everybody was made headlines across the country the british prasad covered it but covered in a in a way that basically to say. Can you believe these people care about this. We don't care about it at all. But some reports from london suggested that is racing fans care or than they would right. Fold in you know we gotta we gotta fold into the terms of the connections Beyond harry sinclair and rank. Focus and sam hildreth trainer legend in his own. Right and and earl sandy A handy handy guy As a as he's known and The the papyrus side of this is is is a little bit lesser certainly lesser known now and And i admit to not knowing you know very much either. what There is about benjamin irish and it donahue out donahue was was was a big name Back then and he was. He was british whereas fans. By as i. I mean like magic or michael He he was just stand there and Papyrus basil jarvis came from a of trainers and i. I believe that that that family is still who still active on the on the british turf and connections you had it. They were sandy was was coming into his owners as the top young rider. Got kind of a budding Celebrity athletes zone right and And build ritz was was certainly well known I mean these are big names that that helped add to Both the significance of the race and made it easier to to to hype and the fact that As you referenced in the zev dozen necessarily hold the same same historic Gravitas as well certainly as a war or even some of the other. Some of the other era gallant fox and and I suppose the obviously the triple crown winners of the era But he he was he was terrific and who had had a real real terrific career as a two three and four year old. he did He he won the kentucky. Derby won the belmont he preakness was how before the derby That year in and he was kicked at the starting line and And kind of that. He was subsequently kind of dismissed by By bettors in the derby because he's been doing in the previous but he he was he was fast and could carry the speed he was. He was a serious source. I don't know if he he didn't He he didn't reproduce His class as a stud and save that. Maybe that hurt him in people's historical memory. I don't know he For those that don't know the record you know he's all famer. We should mention For those that don't that don't realize that we're talking about a hall of famer and zeph and He was by the finn. He went twenty three for forty three in his career. And as a two year. Old people will get a kick out of this with saratoga now within within eyeshot He ran seven times as a two year old at saratoga which is just nuts and the weather was dreadful that summer boy because he was on heavy going all except for well there was one good and one fast but otherwise five starts over the heavy going so it was a rainy summer and it took him to starts at saratoga. Break his maiden he he had been unable to break his maiden downstate In june july he was over. four breaks his maiden in his second. Start with earl sandy Then he wins a couple of allowances then he wins the grand union hotel. The all any he was third in the hopeful and then back downstate for the future then is two year old year. He ended up second But you win the albany and the and the grand union at that time was a big race and The grand union hotel stakes was big two year old steak so Not as big as the helpful but That's a nice win. And then is three-year-old mentioned Went on a strong run. I mean after that preakness he wins the rainbow. The derby the withers the belmont the queen's county on allowance. Then he wins the lawrence realization which was a big race. He wins the match race. He wins the championship and empire city and then a couple of things near the end of the year and then has another match race which is even more obscure the The you mentioned it was. He thinks he was weighing in the as a two year old and people dismiss him value just to just the model just screener. But i keep saying that. There is three year old year and finally went the the dominant ones the realization. And it was the the the match rates at the end of the year is interesting kind of sad. Story that He he wins the race of the century against the pirates and somebody was saying well. Okay so he's won the but what about What about an old grayson's course. My own He he he's still needs to needs to win the american championship. Been some controversy over over whether it should be zev as the american entrance into the The international that's assigned story. But so they're gonna soto american through year old championship honours at the tonia after the race and a local horse named in memoriam that and then have another match race between zaza immemorial to to settle american three or camping on that was at churchill. Down some some journalists had audacity to call that to the race of the century just weeks after the last one the fact the fact that they needed that they needed to create that race to decide the three year old championship. After the season the zev ad is a little. It's a little silly. it seems. I mean i that i don't get i i think it's it's an illustration of how tracks could seeking any opportunity to to post in and promote a big event and it does Yeah it was. It was silly but but at the time and i i suppose people covering the sport You know the controversy sounds. Newspapers and showdowns brings people to the race track from from the perspective of a hundred years. Later you're not come back saying well. This this is. This is silly. How could anybody Take the sears about but they did You know and it's funny in in memoriam ends up matching up with zev but the clamor actually was for the horse that might have had there been an issue in the international match. If there had been any issue with zev my own was was going to would've substituted and there were people that wanted to see a match race between zevon my own on. That's that was basically. Okay we'll we'll we'll We'll we'll settle this. That was the the the race at latonya and my Was well beaten. So they said okay When how he's he's clearly not the Ah the the right. That was the right horse to to to face the miami then my own But but now with settle Now really settle the The championship but my own was was part of the Part of the story in the The international race because he was he was selected much of the frustration of his own admiral. Cary grayson the first alternate and a couple of days before the race august belmont sent a telegram said quick sent Semi on north he was in ulanbatur zealand. I might have a problem with A he has a rash and this got picked up on all the news. The wires and And it's cynics said this was just to create more drama and more drama And so he he sent his horse up and they said okay. Well never mind that. They didn't grace and said that that he wasn't he wasn't notified that the his source would actually be running and so he was on the on the train and guts the got to the track with with his guests to include president wilson's widow right hand and they were disappointed so it was a it was a circus but that was that was kind of part of the point. Kind of part of the benefit of of this event was it was a lot of a lot of ink was devoted to to story jamie nicholson's with us and Jamie let's listen in. We're going to pick up They've just Sprung latch the prince. Wales they're going to go a mile and a quarter. And i can tell everybody. Love the aidan. O'brien galileo philly for coolmore. Course is heavy favored. Want to hear here. A- doria who of course coming out of breeders cup Nine to to Third choice because armory the other aiden. O'brien with is seven two two and Sangari us who There's a little bit of affection for in quarters looking for a price sixteen to one. Let's pick up the saint james or shoes me the prince of wales. Today's group one the high end that his stable companion and desert encounter in the hood is still last of the sex. They run past the half mile. Walk in here about six. Or seven months. I alas and love has the lead to my overall in second sangomas or doria still in fourth. No move yet from armory. In fifth place in desert encounter just pushed along lost of the sixers. Love leads them. Inside the three at the turn for home love in front sangari or doria announcing a challenge on the outside ryan mortgage love a squeeze asks to stretch sangari as old doria tucked behind. Jari love with the advantage. She's going to have to fight hard. She does respond or doria in second place laying down a big challenge arbery to the outside then my son korea since wilted loving ferry. Tonight dario work give in the love. Finding plenty for rival offer is in love is coming up to the line. She sends us head over heels. A special phileas woah. Love makes all very tough in the world is stakes daria terrific rates between the two of them arbery next to then might over on desert encounter sanger harris. Well there was there was Midstretch there was a little bit of a of a question whether a diarrhea mike In fact collar love but With every with every to challenge with any Any time that atari of seemed to be drawing even ryan more able to extract the a little bit more out of love and the galileo philly Takes down the prince of wales in very nice There's your action seven six one four in a form full addition of the group. One prince of wales. Jamie nicholson's weather's we're talking about his latest book for america. The horse race of the century and the redemption of a sport the story of the zev populace match race at belmont and An international really international sensation. And i i've got to read one little thing not jamie i. I'm sure jamie would love to have read written this. But it it's famously attributed to damon runyon and i mentioned earlier about earl sandy Being a handy guy well the poem for those the couplet. If you've ever heard it why do you ask who won it. Zev had sandy up and sandy can ride for money or marbles are golden cups. Stay kassir selling player. Say when i want to win give me a handy guy like sandy booting them horses and and it doesn't get better than that When you when you wanna have a writer give you a monica for the rest of your career. A handy guy and there. It is really fun. Jamie in addition to racing for america. And i wanted to also include and put up the link For people to order it directly from university of kentucky press. And it's going to be a busy summer. Because of course we had the lenny The last couple of weeks and lenny's book Face to face his conversations a collection of conversations also coming out from university of kentucky press but in addition to this book. Jamie talk a little bit about nineteen sixty eight A pivotal moment in american sports and This is a little bit older. We didn't get a chance to talk about it when it came out the previous year. Well yeah i that that was There is a little bit of Horse racing in. There's specifically the the Dancer's image kentucky derby But it it. It's more of a look at the american sports scene More broadly how. How the the discord of the late sixties in in america was was playing out on on on on single to play in the In the major major sports events of the year you had A disqualification in the masters in the in the kentucky derby had Controversy is at the world series An unusual condition of the other national anthem. It's right this was this was when muhammad ali was Appealing his suspension and as He was. He was out of the sport for for the draft situation. It was and i. It's a couple of years old. But i am. I was interested in. We're kind of seeing Some similar things in present day in terms of how sports are being put us. I was i was curious to see how it of a i guess what. A pivotal moment in american sports in american society and politics. How how all that was was playing out. Dander it even if you just the chapters. It's it's broken out into five chapters but the the illustrations listing. It just gives you a snapshot of you know. Just just what a tumultuous year was. And the way in fact you've got you've got this laid out where there. There's the sporting event and then intermixed with the societal unrest And and the unrest just just kept coming And the it's funny. I it starts with it. Starts with the ice bowl and Then the war and george wallace and university of alabama the civil rights act Listen You mentioned the masters roberta diva senzo with the with the scorecard Then came the derby bobby. Kennedy's assassination just unbelievable The chicago and the dnc and everything that went on. I just amazing. I mean when when you think about the layer upon layer of of storylines feliciano i think that gets lost in in in everything I until you until you brought it up Not even something. I would have associated A tommie smith and john carlos And the olympic podium and the black power salute some believable. I mean this was curt flood. Joe nemeth i mean it. It's aptly named jamie A pivotal moment in american sports nineteen sixty eight And i i hope it. I hope that we alert some people to it Because it's it's amazing what you wove together here. Thank you when when you miss them all together it is. It is remarkable that that was that was one one year in history. I going up. I kind of. I've back at reading about their listening to music of other sixties and i. I was like Interesting times the one that would be like to live in interesting times that we i know what It's it's like to an interesting and maybe it's Maybe it's more fun to read about than to than to experience. I i really did enjoy That that right in my book and and doing the research how how old how how old. I think you're younger. Nineteen seventy eight in september. All right well Having having been old enough i was eight going on nine Just old enough to remember. Virtually all of this Including our neighbor lend cedar who was Had been with. Bobby kennedy On the campaign ad it it it's just For those that you know that here these things and they see in a mostly black and white images you. You really wouldn't be really wouldn't have believed that it's just an amazing you know and thing things like the sporting news or sports illustrated Coming every week and reading about the these events and we didn't have you know we we. We certainly didn't have the kinds of accessibility that you have now. I mean it yet. Three channels television. And you know maybe a grainy fourth on uhf and You know the the way in which all of this was delivered and to you you nightly news everybody you know basically watching Whether it was huntley huntley brinkley or or walter cronkite. I mean it was just It was a much different focus. I it's I think. I think this book deserves Order obviously folks ordered them together. Is well what i'm trying to tell you Nineteen sixty eight by James nicholson jamie. Nicholson and racing for america. What's next by the way for you. What are you working on now. I i started to look at old rosebud one on the kentucky derby and the early twenty th century and was injured in his next raises turned out for two and a half years and maternal top older horse in america. That sort of seems like it. It wouldn't mind itself to a book. But i haven't quite figured out how to make the pieces fit so we we shall see we. You know it old rosebud Is a great another. It's amazing that you're attracted to these kinds of stories. Actually because he also was you know was was heralded and and Was a big story and we also you know. We don't for whatever reason we stopped. We stopped calling horses. Things like this. Like you know nobody. Nobody names a horse these you know old lotrowska. We don't we. Don't get that same and we don't get enough in america anyway. We don't get enough. Horses named the something i i liked that i i'd like. When horses horses use Those pointing plenty cutler. Got there but that though the one come yesteryear Some special well it jamie. Whatever whatever you've worked on over the years I've i've always found Engaging and i did not want to be too far away from the release of of racing for america to be an who didn't want it to get too far away Wanted to get you on. And i appreciate you sending it and the invite people anybody that has got a summer reading list Put it on. And while you're bordering nine hundred sixty eight pivotal moment in american sports as well and and lenny's book to face the face. We'll talk the lenny probably next week before we go on vacation Let he's going to come in and talk about his book so water all them together. Yes we really appreciate your having me on. And you're supportive of authors and books in general. It's some people some people history doesn't matter but for some people it's part of part of the essence. The sport i i. I really hit you support. Not at all and You know to me. The university press of kentucky a big part of this story because their willingness to support particularly equine titles and support in a authors. That are that are addressing. The not just not just sport not just sports in general but All kinds of titles for those that have never been to the website Absolute you'll you're gonna end up if you like to order books if you like that books in the house You'll you'll end up ordering because it's kentucky press dot com by the way and go through their cadillac. Go through there. I every i dunno six months or so or year. I'll go through the The clearance ven and find three or four things to order It's funny how many topics university press. How many titles. They send out that i that i love and of course equine being i Very big with hollywood. They've there's lots of hollywood and and filmmaking storylines And then food the tremendous amount of food and then things. You didn't really know Stories you can never even heard of i'll give you. I'll give you an example When i was going through this must have been. I don't know six or eight months ago. The marion miley story. I had never i. I'm a golf fan. I fascinated the sports history. I had never heard of marion miley and it is unbelievable. That and this is a my wrong or is this a story that i that has not gotten nearly the attention that it probably should either a movie or a documentary. Maybe there is that. I'm just not familiar but There was a book by beverly bell. The murder of marian miley who was as big a female golf star in the late thirties and early forties. I mean the likes of of bath's harris and louise suggs. And she was murdered at the country club where She and her mother lived in lexington. I it. It's a huge story at the time and nobody knows about it. Well not not even really around here. I was familiar with the people would sort of mumble. Yeah that's where That that lady was killed but not but the stories remarkable. It ought to be a movie and she was. She was a huge talent It it's while you're at why you're university press ordered the murder of mary and miley beverly bowel so by by the time you're done here you're you're going to need you're going to need to build bookshelves by the time i'm through with you It's jamie this was great. Thanks so much. Thanksgiving always always a pleasure. James nicholson and his latest We've got seth mero standing by listening in. I think seth now case. Pick up on. Seth clean on. Oh you lost them okay. We lost that all right. He's going to get set back Both of these books. Nineteen sixty eight and racing for america I would get it on your your summer reading list now. I think. I hear seth merrin introduce me to line with that about that. Maybe that's maybe that's a hint. Not at all are you are you. Are you banging at royal ascot. I'm watching. I'm watching Certainly you have to i. It's become fun over the last few years with with You know. Wesley ward going over john blasco as being over there. That makes it more fun. I mean it was always a is there more of a quality meat in the world that packed in the five days like that. So it's always gone to watch certain well We're about Eighteen minutes to the fifth race and Quick glance here for folks. We're gonna send you off into the afternoon. I've got to run to bennington So i will be watching and wagering on the phone But the on this is weird. I got the six. And i've got the seventh. Where did the fifth go. And i will remind people that In the six. That's the windsor castle at twelve. Thirty five and you've got the to wesley Wesley will try to get One and probably one of his best chances of the week. Ruthin the twenty eight in the windsor castle with the dettori. And johnny aboard. Golden bell The macho uno philly saw twenty six. We got another chance but a terrific for for aaron wellman and the the team from eclipse thoroughbred to this is a. They must've absolutely had this in mind. I'll probably get ready. Get aaron on tomorrow To celebrate but They must have. The idea must have been to campaign a two year old in europe. The for this opportunity. Look at the size of these fields. Both next who racist these are absolute cavalry charges. So you are betting into royal ascot's these these are the kind of make your mouth water because he had some opportunities. Its upcoming fit the the two little bit interesting hit queen queen a guessing perhaps gossiping a horse. Maybe a little bit of a price. I don't have the live out in front of me. Seven to one on the morning line but i thought that one might be a little bit interesting. Well i can tell you exactly what's going on on front and a kick we Which is Right at a glance have to be chadwell horse and and it is Gosden crowley thirteen to one At actually that's twice the the morning line price This is a group. The royal hunt cup. They're going to go a mile and you're looking at a field of thirty. So yeah thirty. Thirty of them in here and cavalry charge indeed. Let me give you cavs opinion. He's interested in. He's got four horses that he that he is going to give you some attention. The sixteen finest sound the nine grow ferry the twenty-seven wrench and the three bauer men. Those are those are the portions in in a big bulky field that Cav is interested in and let's get you some pricing Sixteen nine twenty seven and three. So we'll give it to you in numerical order Bowel movement is fifty nine to one a art. Seven-year-old grow ferry eighteen to one for andrew balding who of course one yesterday. The this They david propert takes the call. Eighteen to one on this acceleration for your old then out to find sound thirteen to one simon christopher for a maktoum family charge and exceed and excel for your old thirteen to one and then out to the twenty-seven ravage sixty five to one richard spencer and hayley turner. So if you can if you can swinger these together Them together something or just better. Meech way you've got some nice numbers here. And the royal coming up at noon. And speaking a witch seth we w- why why can't we get the swinger bet Here in north. America gotta get that. Yeah that's a good idea. I mean i would think there's no reason why other than the powers that be are reluctant to do it for one reason or another but if it's available one place it certainly technologically is doable. Well naira got naira reached for approvals And to the at the time to the racing and wagering board and we thought you know we thought it was going to happen to me it's a very effective introductory bet for people that get frustrated. They don't understand you know if they go bed and exact than their new better. I i learned all this from tina As a as a mutual clark and she said people would come up with a ticket and they they see their number on the board and particularly if they have a winner and then another horse finished third and they don't understand what didn't i hit the exact. We'll know you needed to be first and second. Well the swinger would be a also known as an omni would be such a painless way for new players to get introduced to multi horse wagers and they can get parcel out the new players because when you were in the game long up we lose that perspective because every summer last summer but almost every summer i'll bring a few new people to the track and it it is i opening to see how excited they are win. Three dollars and twenty cents and you have to like readjust and that's how people get excited about the game. So you you know you point these newbies in different directions. And it's also fun to realize. I mean i don't really play anymore every once in a while. Look to see how it compares with an exact. But i don't play the cornell anymore but that might be a bet that that more tracks they want to look at it a little bit to bring new people in that game too because at that point you know you eager number either way. You're you're to goes over the new folks that may be a little bit easier to understand well and Speaking of new players coming to saratoga potentially this summer dave Greenwich in the last half hour Reporting saratoga will be open at one hundred percent capacity and nice news there and Also good news on the belmont side and in fact i was waiting to get some information. So good to see this because Somebody wrote to me with this question. Belmont park general. Admission walkup five dollars resumes. June twenty fourth so no more special arrangements To get in and all that five dollar general admission walkup sales starts on the twenty fourth. Next thursday could see it common. I mean the last week. The governor kind of hinted at it when he said we're shooting for seventy percent and when we get there will be ease the restrictions and that's essentially what happened yesterday so it pretty much. Every place has gone. Yeah you still. I know bouncing around there was in a restaurant yesterday. That still had a mask sign up. I was in the post office. And they have something that says you know. We have federal rules. So please wear your masks. So there are still those locations but the state in general has kind of taken the restrictions office. We hit the seventy percent vaccine mark yesterday. Well that was. That was what we were looking for right. That was the magic number absolutely. Yeah which i think. Is you know the scientific kind of herd immunity Type of a thing and they pointed various zip codes around the state. That haven't quite got quite gotten there yet. But i think upstate has been doing pretty well vaccine wise rate along and south that plays into saratoga. Certainly well this. This is This is in a funny. It's come to hand you know we. We kept saying moving in the right direction. Moving in there and now all of a sudden you know it's nice to get out of the car go to the grocery store and not realize three steps away from the car. The forgot my mask psa. It's like it's like you have to relearn there's there's there's all these habits and practices that you know that have been adjusted right and and your lifestyle and now now you don't have to. You don't have to think them through like you were. You are absolutely right. I've heard that from a bunch of people who are like man. I gotta get used to not wearing the mets pretty easy. I did not like the mask at all. So i was right into that. But it's funny you talk about the supermarket. I laughed the other day. I'm walking down the aisle. And i'm looking for the aero mike going the right way in the lane. But they've done away with the the one way streets in the supermarket. That's a good point. I i wasn't good with that either. I i i looked down in the lane. I go the wrong way. Well see. i'm one of these shoppers. I will park by card at the end cap. And particularly if i know what i'm going in the aisle four is in. Let's say the first twenty percent maybe thirty percent of the aisle on either side. And so i parked the cart up against the end cap and i just dashed down. Grab what i want and go back and and and resume my my shopping but I'm i'm notorious cart barker. I'm the guy that the car people the car sitting there and you're like what asshole did this to me to me The person everybody's point. That well i don't know if you saw my i don't know if you saw my tweet the other day i pointed at somebody else. How about the people who are these people. do a little jerry. Pretty good thank you. The i took a picture. I put this up on twitter with a snapshot from shot where somebody had taken a cart and they a shopping cart and literally the first spot in the parking lot. Seth closest to the store. And there's the berm where they've got shrubbery and there's the berm and right across the. There's there's the grocery store. They had taken their shopping cart and put the front wheels on the berm. I mean you you're so lazy you're you can't take that cart and put it up on with the other carts that was literally literally twenty two feet away instead. You laughed a metal obstacle in the way of drivers because you couldn't push the cart. I i it. Nothing makes me crazier than that. Don't get me started on the supermarket. Supermarket as my nemesis for my. My brother used to call them the oblivion people who are just a bolivia to everybody else and supermarkets seem to attract them. Well now see now. Casey's making me feel bad saying made. What if they were handicapped. All right sorry jeeze. I i dunno i put up i put up. I put up the picture of denny What i forget i forget. What's the what's the goal damon slapshot denney What he's on. He's on he's on the show with with And he says You know you go. You go to the box by yourself. You know two minutes. You feel shame. That's five foot. I put that picture up with with the with the cart. I i. I'm gonna say casey that these are not handicap people. Because i see the one thing. I guess that is close to the handicapped spaces. Well listen this is this is a whole nother segment. I mean that we do a segment on this. I mean the the my favorite my favorite of the people to pull into the handicapped slot. They reach down to their their their glove box. And they they hang tag and they jump out of the car and walk in. It's like wow wait a minute wait a minute. One of my best oblivion story was five deep in the selves in the the service desk line at the supermarket and the woman at the desk. The person handling the desk is facing the other way. She's at a counter in the back. Not looking at the people in line. And like i say i'm by deep and so at one point. I leaned forward and to address the four people ahead of me and said is she waiting england any of you and they all as typical get a little bit upset. Oh somebody's emmett and then it dawns on them. Oh this guy's going to say so like no no no and they all stand there and wait for me to fit guy in line. They all they would have been there for the rest of the day. I had to say his me the up by people here waiting. Great bird a turnaround and realize there were people waiting. The other people would have done nothing. But even when i said something it will be more than happy to go so bad a believable. Well because they are they're going into the gate But you you when you mentioned A movie and we have royal ascot's. I will tell people so they haven't watched. I had people tell people to count to me for months now. Checkout ted lasso. A it last week if folks haven't seen it yet who he thumbs up. It's it's definitely. It's it's a very frank. Capra esque kind of for the twenty first century Feel good and it's the first season Ten episodes i think the second season with. It's very very good. Ted lasso apple. Tv well this is. The jason is As a as a football coach who gets hired to coach a soccer team in the uk right. That's the right right right. I was tying it into what little boy. Alaska you mentioned. Rubies up the perfect timing. But yeah you got it you nailed it. I we should watch it. My problem is i tina. Tina tina wrote me into re watching every season of the mental est. We literally watched seven seasons of the mental list and liked but I sorta surprised that we just spent ten days or whatever. It was every time i walk in. She's watching an old episode of the medallists. Simon baker simon baker. Isn't he a breeders cup. Breeders cup embassador. i don't think he is. I think he is. Yes yes he is. He plays the cat also in in The wonderful oh my god with the the send up of vogel of delaware's product as well South we've run out of time talking about nothing which another seinfeld referenced. The as only you. And i can not only you and i can do. I've i've been doing it for fifteen years. What did you play into that. You've got one horse today. Somewhere also won a delaware just gasline holds up and with the sixers. Feel that i'm not sure. But the ninth at delaware today. Six has a name is six to one The favorite is going to be because they said. But i think hope has. The name has a little edge so race number nine. Tell delaware number. Six hope has an eight six one on the morning line. We'll be a whole santomero. everybody. I like it. Hope has a name. That's a that's a good name in and of itself Six you get charlie marquez. With you mcmahon. Thank you seth mero today. Hey now south merrill folks were omitted from post. And then i gotta run to bennington. And i wanna thank seth and jamie. Nicholson really nice. Conversation with jamie about seven papyrus Claudia ribs theme with The big day forty yesterday said fernando. Cy watch refocused brought to you by damn and pete as well thanks. Everybody good luck today. Talk the morning apple with on sirius. Xm radio by in the past decade has been a real equine become the premier equine supplement company in the industry because we spend millions in research and development before we ever put out a product.

jamie Alex waldrop Zev alex india cambridge john gosden valeria earl sandy America Nicholson Jamie nicholson kentucky doria onassis alan foreman alan alan josh rubenstein safety and integrity Alliance safety integrity alliance
Part 2: Sid Fernando, Bill Downes,Lenny Shulman, Seth Merrow

Thoroughbred Racing Radio Network

1:34:17 hr | Last month

Part 2: Sid Fernando, Bill Downes,Lenny Shulman, Seth Merrow

"Of course who will see. We're back i. We're going to join us here and i just things more more internet commentary. I tell you another. I'll tell you another business story and other ripped from my life experiences There's this new york times article That has created I guess there was a controversy. Even ahead of the times piece is subway selling real tuna and i. I i guess this involves something a class action suit in california. I i will tell you an amazing story about my own experience with subway and and My friends i called on on them Sort of a separate entity of subway Janna brands jna. And i can't remember what. I what i was even calling on them. I i think actually not. I'm thinking about it. I think i've represented them when i was. Yeah when i was selling price club. I think i represented janna with with their serie me with the with the crab meat sticks. You know the the pollock. It's formed into full year thinking you're having crab doesn't does a good job too but this is gonna be late eighties so i'm in their office in boston. And i see these big what looked like aluminum foil. Aluminum foil pouches. They were flat though. They're very flat. And i. And i remember asking. I said what what what is this. What is that they said. Oh that's the tuna for the shops said. Really said wow. This is pretty cool. I forget what the wait was a might have been like three pounds of of tuna but it had been in a squished of all the liquid. All the all the tuna water you know that when you open a can and so all the the shops apparently did was tear. Open the pouch. Put it into a bowl. Ads the celery and whatever else in mayonnaise and mix it up and that that was their tuna. So i you know without explaining you know much more about what i one of my when my real role for years as as a food broker was was creating food items a mostly for the club stores and i talked to them. In fact i remember the sales guy. terrific i allen. Poppy and i said to allen said can you do this can you. Can you manufacture this in a in a the size of a tuna can six ounces. Three ounces said well no it's industrialists for food service. I so well this would be great. This would be great on the retail shelf instead of buying a can of tuna where you have to open it and then squeeze out the liquid liquid and they said now. Nobody's going to do that. And then of course. I had to wait and watch years later as as it. It's now all over the place. I said that was what i see. You know. Subway with the. Yes for my own personal experience yes they. They are selling the tuna. But that that. That's that's a true story. I said i'm sorry i didn't mean to bore you with With my food service tales of Yesteryear good morning case. We got said mike that as it were they've been telling me i should be reading this and that and All sorts of stuff taking place in the business. I'm going to have to interview you. I i've been all over the place. I i I i get like this as we get toward vacation I get you know. Go off on tangents. I am i am. I will freely admit that. I'm looking forward to getting the thick of the week off. Yeah great you deserve it. The we just were getting ready. We just had pat mckenna. I wanted pat to shepherd people through saratoga. What what's your summer. I haven't even discussed this with you. What's your summer agenda. I'm sure around sales time. We're gonna see you. Yeah i've been Down in florida for us Several months and know went to yoga sale And not going to be. Yeah probably probably my next Shit kentucky is Probably came in september sale Other than that you know we start to start to get kind of busy in the summer with the failty coming up agree. We have a lot of people that are yearling buyers and You know it's threats the the really starts in the summer and and you know we get a little pre by january february and then again. that's our cycle. Well i i I hope i see you this summer. And we we talked short. Yeah i although. I you know what i haven't looked at the well. It's it's late it'll be late in the season More ready and i'm well. No we're actually crazily We're going west. We've got the nhc in vegas But before that I thought to my self Why not why not take advantage of proximity and go to del mar for a few days. So we're going to do that As well and let's see the sale. The new york bred sale is the fifteenth and sixteenth. And of course the big sale as we discussed yesterday with browning the ninth and the tenth. I think we're leaving. We're leaving travers week essentially and. yeah so. I guess we just looking here on. I gotta figure then. I guess we're leaving. Maybe the eighteenth. So we'll leave right after. Yeah we'll leave right after the new york sale looks like on wednesday the eighteenth. We had out after the show. And then we're gone. I'm gone through the next weekend back for for closing week. Different different I mean look to the year that were trying to get normalized quote unquote. So there's so many different things taking place there well The the conversation. Yesterday with boyd browning and we're going to you know we'll see what today brings i. It's not a big sale today. Said obviously at santa anita There's there's few dozen cow breads In their That you would imagine you know sell well and overall i mean i i wanted. I wanted boyd's distillation of of of the the sale season as the two year olds wrapped up and it really end up there. There was nothing but positives To to come away with it. Seems i mean from from the boutique. Florida's sale through the deep ob sales. I mean this this. This was a good season and at those are great. Healing sale curveball. Ready made some profit and they're you know they drive except the marketing part also because they re invest in yearlings and today that creates competition with the end user buyer and Yeah the signs are pretty. Good that Feel should you know do well based on the these indicators and i haven't i haven't thought yet to to look ahead But marquee wise said who were the who who's hitting the market Among first crop this fall and summer you know go back and take a look. Convenient blur. yeah exactly I just thinking because they would've. I'm still trying to get a grasp of all the first crop right. Exactly exactly. that'd get started. Once we start to do the art sales analysis later this month for the then i get a better grasp of Who the who the freshman stallion at first is the sales will be. I mean obviously the big one. Everybody knows about his justify. You know it's gonna be it's maker to lose type of thing he you know you've got mendelssohn at the same firm as truth call more You know you got a bunch of what's coming up But it's always interesting to me are the the a surprise courses that we're going to start to see that surprised rack. Year was first weaned. What city of life. He's been retired to lane then and his wing chef a sold through roof. You know thirty forty whatever you know but very very There's big anticipation that fears mendelssohn to gamble. But but if you really look at you kind of out so then mental and so You know underneath to justify you've got some interesting horses That that are going to have their first yearling. And he's definitely one of them. And i'm i'm also i kind of thumbing through my my stack of of sales dotes There was just a piece actually Td on monday that i Printed accelerate and tapper and tapper. Tha- tha- that piece was last week but the accelerate Just the other day. And here's the thing you know you're talking about six that fee for justify then you're talking about know mental thing and City of like we both like around thirty thirty five. I think when you start getting attacked with your you're getting into You know the the twelve thousand dollars level or whatever and accelerate starter off at twenty so the the really interesting thing is just like buying stocks you know or value baseball talent is are you gonna are you gonna somebody Lesser price horses. You want to see what what they're feeling is like Because you get down to it and you really look at stallions and success. Some of the best long-term successful downing to come in that ten to twenty thousand. nine range. You know when you when you look at Hoists like intimacy chips. Warfront happened Blues the quality You know these are the horses where really sharp you doing buyers Fine for lack of better term it is valued really value because they tend to come from that range so like when we're analyzing First year stallions times. We've looked at you know we. We know this historical phenomenon that they comfortably ten to twenty five now range so we really. We really hone in on some of these standards. And that's why. I can give you a better reading of that as we start to look at it more. But i guarantee you ten to twenty thousand range but can't be ride. He was ten thousand two. There's another one right They come in that range and the worsens that tend to be higher. It's very difficult for them to succeed. Vis-a-vis the stud fee because they're the highest sheets possibly go right and so anything. Anything less is always a little down. You know what. I mean So any type of the now is always gonna look for beat upside and that's where that ten to twenty thousand range comes at munnings another one like that You know so. There's there's so much opportunity in that range and you expect the figure horses. You know you gotta do. Well you've got you know you're you're twenty to fifty thousand nine horse of course range in to those. I just mentioned mendelssohn city of right but again History has shown you know that that tend to twenty is very very fertile land and it just occurred to me because i thought of what John secure had to say last week with with us Said and now. He mentioned that the that comes to mind. Because we were talking about mclean's music and cloud computing right is going to have his plan horse five hundred. That's right. yeah that's right and so you know you've got something horses in their attempts but you know we've actually done internal i don't wanna give away trade secrets but we have programs where every year we look at that crappy down and we we. We categorize them sub ten ten to twenty twenty to forty. And then you know forty forty two to ninety and then figuring and what you do every year get a basis you take all your take some ten horses and you get a ratio of how many of these sub ten horses six and we only use conducted by the way just to keep the kind of consistent. How many of these sub ten horses are outperforming. You know it's very difficult to make us down to begin with so there's waited. But how many of sub ten horses outperforming their contemporaries. Then you go to kansas twenty. This group is outperforming temporary. And you come up with a ratio and we found again that ten to twenty is your big performing range so you say you you. You're doing a baseball draft right and you have your number one round as giving the millions those years six figures down here a ratio of where. You don't have to pay that kind of money. It's almost like money ball. Is there an area where people are finding say round five to ten horses seems to be really the ones that are ending up in the major leagues at a higher rate with let cost well. That's what we're trying to do. What round are producing the best results. Lease the money so this is why we can some sometimes recommend worsens. Can you wait ranges that you know people might be surprised about right particularly the first class. Because that's what we're talking about here and we discussed this before. But i crap forces tend to have your best books and said it to to kind of crystallize it. Just the reasons why it's so difficult. for horses to you know to make it As as stallions in in a crowded field. I mean i. It occurred to me to pull up the the july catalog. We came up yesterday with with boyd. And here are the names. And this is scrolling through Pretty quickly but here's the kind of stallions who are going to be introduced in july and august at phase ache And that sort of written them all over the place We just mentioned cloud computing. How 'bout bolt doro how 'bout l'armee mule that John always dreaming. we already mentioned accelerate. You mentioned justify mccracken but shero you mentioned city of light. How 'bout motown eurlings get introduced. They've already been well-received as Short yearlings and and his weanlings more spirits that you can do. that's right. that's right and colt is gorgeous. garvan gervin s- Eurlings are showing up sharp azteca hopper tune ity good samaritan at another a bill mott long-on value and we mentioned accelerate collected. There you go so to four o. B. jersey your be jersey. What one two. Three four tapper. There's another one five six seven eight. We say always dreaming nine. There's like fifteen right there. And i you know when when those get introduced some of the ones that you know that are in that category from the previous year or two. They get lost in the shuffle. And that's why when you explain a third. The third crop is the is the you know the maker break You can understand because the buyers. I mean look at this. I july cadillac. At how stacked that is going to be when people open. The cadillac. hasn't been made yet. I don't believe it's only online so you're going to be confronted with all of these. You know new faces and It drowns out right at shoulders. It shunts the you know the the not struggling but the you know the ones that got increasingly less covers In their second and third seasons Why the field gets you know so crowded why. It's so difficult exactly. And you know the third fourth your heart and off tend to get their worst marriage in those years to The the the other part of the in general quality of manners at first couple of times best which is one of the reasons why they do the back and so regardless of stuff feel at that level they ten they tend to get the back man so You know marriage. A group at the american group are so pivotal to the fan and If you can just conceptualize that in the first book you get you know good mare. Second crop lesser married. Third crop lesser for wasser. You could then he wise. You know linear progression of increase performance and then in the fifth year. If that and has done well saying with his first two year olds two year old. His mind run when he's serving. His fourth book bans so any this year you can have route and you know an upward swing again. And let's use a horse you've been talking about the core point using the visit. When first crop is came off and he got cloud computing was classic winner in his third crop is complexity which kept his name alive. So by the time breeders now were breathing in fifth year. Okay this is now that up year because had early success. Look at the results from fifty years there to grade one winners. jackie's warrior and drain the clock our product and mcclain's music year done when he got the upswing mares right now i can only i can only think about the and i bring this up whatever whatever this discussion rolls around i bring up the John nehru Axiom that you cannot make a definitive call. On a stallions results and progeny until they've had seven crops that that was that was neighborhoods rule law. Yeah and of course. I've tell i've always given you a corollary to that. Every time being that out and he was talking about an era. When you get forty fifteen books right that they've fifty fifty seven three hundred and fifty foles right. Essentially you gotta look at that and he told me well you know right now you could have three hundred fifty two i three crowds and and so this is why. And that's just it's just a result of during his your high commercialization and opening books It's why there's so much at stake in those crops now will work versus when he was talking about it. Where you know you have the sheer numbers so you you have to wait for the numbers to cook in before you get actually definitively say for various getting you know one hundred fifty foals in his first crop and another under twenty seconds crops and you know suddenly You know you can see why people are quicker now to write off. Its down because you know he's had the opportunity you know. Every time i talk about this stuff the number of baseball two very similar to baseball You know want to see you know you gotta give a guy at certain number of plate appearances before you can tell you know you know. Guy with a hundred plate appearances and baddie. Two hundred is different game from a guy. That's been the minors thousand play a pnt. And he's adding two hundred. You know the guy was a thousand. He's established himself. This guy's at two hundred. Where's the guy with the hundred you know. In his next hundred you know he could. He could four hundred and raises his average three hundred. So i mean you know and just giving you round numbers years so it points exactly were you saying but with news did say. Which is you. Need a certain number of in this case quote on quote plate appearances to really make much of the san. Juan went to or the ball. Fair eight hundred thousand minor league appearances and he's only two hundred you know he's going to get relief. You've got to keep going blind Unfortunately the fickleness of fashion and commercialization as into is not only baseball but Racing to and so league days now You know a young player may not have the luxury of even getting thousand freight appearances in baseball. You may get run out of the game with three hundred play the be because he has produced immediately and basically. That's what your point. What's happening in various what's happening with ballplayers players is what's happening. You now really everywhere. Everybody's got to produce right away or you're sent away shunted to decide that. So much pressure to purdue now we're now society and and time is no longer something anybody willing to get anybody and if you look at twitter chatter it's always a reflection of about to somebody does something and guys hejlsberg got bad. Crowd jumps in and boom. You're dawn right so our patience. Some of the some of the values that we've always society kind of value really have been corrupted to do what we become sub so often said and our conversations. We find a way to equate You know equate other walks of life. and and other arenas with you know with our business another example exactly right well said i appreciate it. I didn't have really a firm set The topic but we managed to find one pretty readily. It's always interesting of you and you know one of the hallmarks of your show being able to utilize other parts of society that explained in in in yours in my case usa today and reading reading related matters. I i always find that you can get a better grasp of anything if you compare it to other things that bell you know and you understand and and to be able to talk about matters whether it's bleeding indicates with greatest daito she's or other sports I think it helps understand Sport you're talking about and and and getting back to you. I think we do a great job of that. And you certainly allow me to talk it out here during the segment that you give birth fully appreciated as well. It's always just topical. And and i imagine that the certain segment. It's something i know. A certain segment looks forward to it. Every you know every week and Whatever whatever the the current topic is and and you know it is funny that today you know. Here's the final day of two year old. In training sale season the last of those go through and when we get back Two weeks from from today will. We'll be just a few days away from that july sale so this was actually a this was actually a perfect Perfect introduction to the second half of the you know the sale season and Said i have a good couple of weeks. And i look forward to talk the second half of the year. We'll talk to you got it. Sit fernando everybody. Sire watch pedigree focused brought to you by hillen dale consultants and by. Now you've got a real feel for what your mayors produced and how happy are with with their looks and then their action already running around front around the fields and For the for the next go around get ahold of said and roger five one four nine hundred eleven. Eleven will stay here speaking of eleven. It's eleven and Bill downs join us. Do a segment with bill looking at Those two stakes at indiana grand. Today we had a little half Segment with him on monday. Because of the carryover. And in fact i went over with yesterday. the carryover Results so Won't well we'll touch on it actually with bill because i'm curious how he did And we'll see what he's got for today but it it really a nice companion parrot. Companion cards The between indiana. I and canterbury later so there you go. There's bill and what did i You know this thing. Somebody i told you people i i don't i don't know if it's coming from. I looked to see if it was coming from my second computer. I've got I've got the second the older laptops which i had refurbished. I figured why not right. It was like three hundred dollars three sixty three ad. I think they they charged apple To refurbish the old one which was shot but You know as a backup right. And it's it's here in the office I'm thinking maybe. That's where that i because i can't. I cannot no matter. How many times i i'm you this. You know my main laptop. I can't find it and it's not the phone. That's that's beeping. It's so strange where it's coming from anyway. Bill down joining us next. And then leonard. Here we go. That's what i was looking for. The there's bill down. good morning. Good morning steve. Bell before we talk about the two stakes today. And i had marcus hersh earlier and got marcus's opinions but It was exactly. I thought it came off exactly like we suggested that if people were narrowed up and you know basically zeroed in on the obvious contenders including you know the potential to single rock paper scissor and even choctaw bingo that they could have played a three dollars. Four dollar five dollar pick five and they got back one hundred and twenty five dollars for every fifty cents. Yep i it was one of those days and even though it wasn't a dave to you know Put money into your retirement fund. That was certainly profitable. Dave you found the right singler singled and Just you know found a way not to make a mistake in that sequence well and those were the ones that you talked about and and i think we pretty much put everybody. I mean the one horse. That was somewhat tricky. Even though he ended up being the second choice truculent was the one the one horse that you may have had to have either stretched or or gone a little further than you know than the first pass but everything else was there. We said fifty five strong and show far in the nightcap. You said people could single rock paper with with confidence Jump right in was was readily apparent in that second leg and choctaw bingo choctaw. Bingo may have been even more impressive. Frankly than rock paper scissors was yeah. They're gonna have to find A little bit saltier spot. I think choctaw bingo. All three of those raises rather easily be better than the market indicates and last rates was a much bigger margin granted. So i think they'll they'll they'll figure out something where to where to put Choctaw next three wins in a row and still going great well. And before we jump into the stakes and the sequence. What did we miss yesterday. i have to run to to pennsylvania pennsylvania to was from mont bennington. Oh i don't know we didn't. It wasn't I was more gearing up for the for the car. Today we got a couple of stakes races and whatnot I'm just Pulling it up real quick as you can tell just remind myself you know doing the more line. I'm like six days ahead. I got call raises and getting ready for today's races but You know it was was more. Mike lower mike lara one. Another race He's had like six wins in the last Six race dates here at indiana grant and then I guess the most You know interesting horse. That one was traveling justice in indiana red. Who went first time on the turf and had a little bit of trouble on the turn still won by a length and a half or aaron west to is one with quite a few first-time starters I wanna say if i just thumb nailing i'd say he's about thirty percent with first time starter. The meat He he does a little bit of everything runs a meeting special way. Then they'll run some meeting you know he'll he'll run the gambit maiden special weights and made in clamours all over the place. And he's a he's an interesting guy does study you're handicapper and want to try get beat on on what which ones are live because certainly throws out enough live first. Time starters at indiana grant. You mentioned the mentioned that the trouble justice and sammy bermudez aboard thirteen to one they twenty eight sixty and notably was the only first time starter in the group. Yep yep i like csv going on the race and he just never ran a. You never ran a step in that and that spot Shows some promise. Last year was second best but Yeah troubled dust is is Certainly you know. It's whatever the to make sure what how old he is he is three are also be Like the snack stakes. I think something like that Those three year old stakes rates is on the tour. I think yeah he might be finding his way into one of those because that was pretty good one well and the other the other. Tricky ores in the sequence was thirty three eighty four. The mike lower winter been there done that. And those that got through this Sequence were well rewarded twenty seven hundred fifteen dollars for five for five and Let's see at a pool of sixty seven thousand so take ten thousand off. Gets it down to fifty seven thousand so You had about twenty tickets Twenty you know. Twenty fifty cents worth Some variation there of Winners that Because the price of the other ones were all the pretty you know pretty clear gemstone was was a takeover over three two two had the one to two winter For ravelli smoking richie so Other than those two prices It was it was obvious. Pretty out pretty clear. So congratulations anybody that it. Let's see if we can't help again today. Bill and Talk about the two stakes before we do anything else all right. Well the switch my pages over geared but the race in the eighth race are the stakes. rates is the who's your breeders sophomore stakes for phillies as ray six and the colts and geldings in race eight The eighth race is one That there's a lot of speed in the race so And a lot of question marks about whether or not those colts and geldings will go to turns in the race is probably a little bit more chalky with the contenders least in my opinion the The one that Marcus focused on diamond solitaire. Who he actually made His best bet he. He thinks that philly continues to ascend and i. I know it was only three quarters but the race that Very emilia in fact. We talked about her. I think Bell around that time when when she One that allowance For for duran and that was a terrific effort. And i don't know if she can stretch out successfully But that's the that's the key in here. Very amelia But marcus made a strong case. Diamond solitaire yeah. I would make the same strong case. I'm when they added blinkers. She turned out to be Even a better philly than once she has been in the past. I mean that was not very fast paced at all on may thirteenth mean. They went fifty one and four fifths. The have i mean they were casual is With a capital. C is the description for that early pace and diamond. Solitaire was not stats far behind. But just in golf. The the leaders at the top of the stretch and it was by by time at at that point. That's solitaire just Was to me was a A performance of of the week type of of race from her. So yeah. she's my my with my optic and she's potentially a single for me as well Very amelia is interesting You know. I had to give her support in the morning. Line and at seven to two based off just that the number that she got but it wasn't dirt sprint. I thought she was doing her best. She's a hard trying. Billy i thought she was doing her. Best bright up until the sixteenth ball. And then sandra kind of You know eased up a little bit honor still kinda showed the the crop of the last sixteen but she said to route rates is granted one on a wet track and one on the turbine. Both races have not been the best in the world You know they added blinkers to starts ago You know she's going to have to prove it to me I like her but i. I don't like her at at a mile. Sixty and going up against diamond solitaire Others in here timeless glory finished second diamond styles here last time. I always thought she had talent. She seems to be getting better. Here's the third race off layoff. She had a lot of. She showed a lot of ability last year. And if she's going to be able to win at this level. I think this would be at route raised. I think this would be the day that she's gonna show at pearl tiara. Lost hungarian princess to starts going swiftly side steaks with a huge favourite delivered as the favourite show. One route race But she had the rail and that was a very strong rates from top to bottom last year and it was at the end of last year. So she she has built an excuses for that that bad performance in november seventeenth. I surprised she runs A decent as well but My top pick is Is diamond solitaire. I in that six race. What are your thoughts on the voice. Well there's a lot of question marks. I got comments may have distance questions. And i got speed aplenty. I mean look at this race you got. Nobody listened to won his last. Two and is is a very very fast gelding. And he's trying to turn for the first time and he has sprinter breeding and he's got the inside and you know he's gonna get bad but you know i i. I have my question. I question with with his first. Raising d- winners asset that this is a whole different test because you got speed like sky judge on the outside a few too many who are also Orces with questions going around two turns a few too many has tried route raising the past. The indiana futurity didn't do that great But it's come back as run. Both races have been pretty darn good In in dirt sprints the one i can make a case for that is now going around race for the first time in two thousand and twenty one is sudden shift a son of unbridled express. We talk about ad nauseam on the show. Steve likes turf but also going to turn go back to its racist. Last year he broke the mate and when he stretched out the first time. Yeah it was just a maiden race but he went by twelve legs then. They put him in the indian. If you already in the early pace was not fastnet. Race at all in the indian november seventeenth and he finished. He finished a decent second. Now he's gonna get all sorts of speed in the race. Nobody listens few too many skyjacked. Anybody else who wants to go out there and crackheads and i think sudden shift at fifteen two one is Certainly one that needs to be used for sure In your in your pick five tickets. Yeah i'm poking around. There's just too many. There is a few too many with michelle elliott but no the There's just too many horses that are stretching out that and when you get that mean just horses that are naturally that are just naturally fast in stride. Even horse sudden shift who as a sprinter is usually a couple of links off of it. Well you know a couple of links office forty six and change The horse that that appeals is attis back to me at fifteen two one from looking for a price. And i've any chance i get to bet noble's promise The the kennedy mcpeek wonderful. Wonderful noble's promise and willie martinez nobles provice But i thought that he's backed might be the right price to play around with your certainly won his maiden race and the right way. It was just a field five. I'm just looking at the horses. Beat he didn't really beat very much buddy slowly but surely getting better You know he's somebody i might. You might be able to convince me to throw them in underneath the try. I don't know these ready to win this type of race. But he is getting slowly. But surely you know. I for me a sudden shifts Live at long shot than daddy's back But you know. I didn't put an extra room but just put it that way. Yeah i get sudden shift has got an i talked. I talked sudden shift up earlier to with Marcus love dr gorham and barker sticks and This is horse. Marcus pointed out. And you mentioned got got much better when stretching out last fall so sudden shift that fifteen two one and if you're looking for more than one big price that he's back the five As well my you know sit very comfortably right behind the speeds and might get Actually might be might pair up with sudden shift in that regard I think sudden shift is very a very much more of a tractable Type horse Those are the two stakes they go at five and six zero to any any thing that jumps off the page for your bill that wraps around the stakes. Oh thumbing through everything once again here. i mean. I think it's a okay. Let's talk seven indiana bread Philly mayor Allowance race going mile on the turf. And i think this race is is wide open ahead to make a very tepid savored shan. Danna the the one horse The favourite but She's taking on the turf for the first time in a row for the first time. So she's got all sorts of of question marks about her and there is a Philly that is making her turf debut. Try to try to be in a turf race in her last couple of races and they've been taken off the turf due to rain and that's the seminar bumble of love. A daughter hampton another vitrenko mayor who has produced three turf winners. So there's interpreting up and down for especially for an indiana bread and you know she's finished issues in this race as well last raises But they were both on dirt. I always wanted to see her on turf. And i get the I get the chance today because looks like it's going to be pretty Dry weather in the fumble of love at eight to one i thought was Another Horse that you need to throw in in your in your pick. Five ticket. Very nice and A terrific sequence and again to close out the week We look ahead tomorrow's card Nice big bulky fields so a terrific stakes day indiana and then later Into the early evening and into the full fledged evening At canterbury as well build nothing tomorrow because nothing next week. I should say because we're on vacation but Um certainly getting excited and looking forward to indiana derby week In two weeks two weeks from today. July seven thirty. You know you hear name and you know whether or not they show up or not. That's another thing. But i've heard basis for greg for foley and I heard about mr wireless as well for calhoun so Those are just a couple of names. I don't know. I haven't seen anything that's Told me otherwise. They're going anywhere else but those those dame's will start to get Narrowed down of that As we as we get closer. I know entries. I think nominations closed the day. Nominations closed at least get a list and then we can kind of start crossing off horses and and get a better fine tune that list. Well we'll see if we'll see if everybody. i'm not sure if everybody that's Entered at The ohio derby if they're all gonna go sometimes When we when we start to get the regional derbies rolling in. We'll we'll see some cross entry fact. Yesterday i had I had phil. D'amato and phil has got a horse entered in that Lady jacqueline and he said that he very well may not Run there and he might come for the general assembly. I'll be good bigly. I very good all right. You late breaking news well and we hope nobody's late breaking today out of the gate but bill will note it if they do bell enjoy the afternoon. We'll be watching later and benton and i'll to you in two weeks have happy fourth often. Thanks steve bill downs. Everybody build downs one on your twitter and in addition to do a great job on the mike Bills got a very good opinion. We've had a lot of fun in the last few years Going over these cards and the good racing today that then we'll take you into the evening at canterbury We'll stay right here and I think we've got lenny showman standing by and in my hands diane. I'm holding in my hand. They box of chocolate. Bunnies lenny shamans head to head there. A twin peaks reference for those of you that that are completely lost That's my my reference. Lenny awarded the ron jeremy reference anyway. But i'm tom may now. You know what this is your third opinion. I think third appearance in four weeks. Another couple of visit. You'll be joey bishop. I get like the cup like qinglin. Or how does that work. You get a dixie cup. Thank you me. A perfect The two cents plain Lenny the book came on saturday. And i was just. It was just delighted. Because i you know i. I knew you'd made certain references. The book is head to head conversations with a generation of horse racing legends and this also from university of kentucky press and last week. I referenced that when jamie nicholson was on with us and we were pushing Summer reading your your summer reading list With the to nicholson books. But this lemme you. You hinted about this. Maybe three years ago that you had the idea of collating these These interviews and these Conversations and talk about pulling them all together and and picking and choosing the ones that went into head-to-head. Yeah this is Yeah i it's a cross section of people who you end up talking to through the years and the there were just some really natural you know breakdowns and in the sections I i've let jockeys out of this. Because i i you know i have already done a jockey. Books so them aside It it just sit really nicely into into certain categories. I came to realize how you know. How many important And accomplished women i. I have interviewed through the years and it just struck me that horse race thing. You know it doesn't get the credit it's really the only sport where men and women compete together a on a level playing field. There's no separate league you know. There's no separate nation and I i've just been so fortunate to you. Know talk to people through the years like mary lou whitney and charlotte and barbara banke and trump the candy. Helen alexander josephine abercrombie. You know maggie mark Just so many people so that was a great section that came together and you know celebrities. I've been fortunate enough to to talk. To people. Like sam sheppard and both derek and david milton rick pitino and mike them periodically through the years. And you know this thing just kind of put itself together and it's not to any great writing feet of my own that i say this but but it's because of the interview subjects. It's just a lot of great and valuable information in here and great stories that all these people tell in their own words you know. I mean to hear. Bobby frankel talk about you. Know how he trains and how he changed the way people train. You know talk to tom. Derrick about bringing racing into the modern era from the way it used to be presented. Same with the great acog for tony leonard. How penny january. I was just so fortunate that she opened up to me about not only your feelings about her great horses but the mistake she made was with secretary through the years so they are just fantastic stories and information in here not not to my doing but but but drew these great people that i've been fortunate enough to talk to a couple of things lenny and just was it hadn't occurred to me until you until you mentioned Certain names but and i want to give people an idea of of some of the inclusions How many are are referenced that earlier absent friends and penny chinnery And bobby that you bring up tony leonard As well cot campbell The just just a a handful. Mary lou whitney That gives you an idea. And here's the veterinarian. Section dr copeland We just lost doctor levin what Six eight weeks ago. Yeah yeah Bob and beverly lewis. Yeah you know. There's a section on kentucky derby winners and and able to spend the day with with five lewis and you know and there's another section on on the great farm managers in a great farm owners in kentucky that i call kentucky hard boots but you know most solid these guys. Unfortunately we've lost and these these were the guys who plan the matings and raise the horses and you know the the these are the guys who really made history. People like bob court charlie nockles and and and henry wide and is are wet. The johnny jones. I mean you know thank thankfully some are still with us. Arthur hancock and governor jones and And and a couple of others. But you know you're you're right we've unfortunately lost so many of these folks and i think you know this book work not only as as a horse racing's books that it really works on a level of a history book you know as far as documenting really the last half of the twentieth century when a lot of these guys were in their prime Certainly they were with us through the first years of this century also but but it really is a historical documents. And and i just feel like it's so valuable to have you know talked to a guy like bob. Four million gotten his feelings on how to raise worse before they pass off the scene. Because you know the these guys were concentrated horsemen well in on that topic Most people i think from horse player From i guess worse player standpoint and a casual fan standpoint as opposed to stakeholders and and people who are directly involved there. You know there's going to be some of these reeds that People are very familiar with the the individuals involved in your mentioned some. But then you're going to get to some sections like in you know in the heart boot Chapters where somebody like ted car Is going to be a fascinating. I mean this to to put a parallel on on on the fact that book. You competed with You know better lucky than good that that was the beauty of of that book that that you you were introduced to people and you were provided perspectives and and a knowledge about the game and about the industry and the sport that you otherwise were you know you. You didn't know and Having you know having somebody like ted car Answer these questions and walk people through you. Know his his invaluable understanding and experience. I mean that that's an important thing to have recorded history. You may not know ted cars but you. You wouldn't have known cigars name if it wasn't thirteen car. And his son. Max who who saved them as a yearling when he ran through a fence and wanted to kill himself And of course orig- all of the great allen paulson horses Through the year. So so yeah the. These guys were absolutely crucial to this. End the see. But you're right on on the other level you know to you. Know to to read a guy. Like sam sheppard who i. I don't know if i've ever been more intimidated by meeting. Somebody that i that i was by sitting down with sam sheppard But but suck guys like kevin david milch just guys who are here as far as you know being you know just being a writer on any level and being able to sit down with guys like these and you know be able to talk for a guy like rick pitino. Just couldn't wait to talk of course is just so sick of talking about skin off that he loves sucking yours is. The imperial e is a humongous horse. Fan joe torry. These guys are like kids in a candy shop when you see him at the racetrack. so yeah it's It's a great cross section of people. And i'm just so so happy with the way it turned out that you know we read about all of these in under one roof and i and i hate to. I hate to make this reference but there are some inclusions here that You know obviously this is over the course of of your writing career. So there are some inclusions on very sadly probably couldn't have had these conversations you know recently or more presently so again have these they have these aura. But essentially it's an oral history. Yeah you're exactly right see. It's an oral history that i've taken off to cakes and you know. Put down on the page. But you're exactly right. These are these are not the articles either. Just the raw question. Answer interviews that i've preserved for this book so so you don't have to go through the filter of of my writing. It really is the interviews and the questions and answers in their original flora minor. Editing but I it's very unfiltered and You know a guy like david milch shoe more fascinating guy that you could talk to. I don't know who it could have been Because when you talk to a day the most there is no filter it's like he's taken sodium pentothal and there's nothing he's not going to talk out and there's nothing he's not going to be under percent on it out and Just as an example he almost got me fired like one year into my career You know david was an addictive addictive personality. Who unfortunately it's turnout lost millions gambling. But you know it was also addicted to heroin early. Earn his wife and Made the statement that you know a race going off half hour to him is like you know jabbing a needle into his arm every half hour while the president of togo at that time. I didn't much liked that reference and went to the publisher of the blood who has an asked from my scalp And now i be fired immediately and blessed. That was almost the end of my career before i've not heard that story before And who who beat the who. Who was the publisher. At the time i was i was gonna ask. And i'll tell you the jack ass was it if you want me to also but that's that's entirely up to you all right. I'll put the filter on his point. The it's funny. The the names and i just kind of looking at at the ones that then i that i've interviewed myself and that i treasure and From that you know. Obviously bobby top of that list. But but from the from the non Trainer side governor jones and jerry jones There isn't anybody. I respect more Just i mean i a real treasure and Of course has taken up the mantle that at airdrie for his father But you talked to him in two thousand and four You know so it. I suppose some of these. Some of these are going to be I imagine timestamped right. I mean there's there's going to be only the the experiences up. Some some are more historic like a penny january but others were their career zurve in full flight. Yeah thing you bring up rare jones and the thing i always take out vite interview with him was You know. I asked them how many massey have and he said something. Like one hundred seventy five unite said. I'd be bored to death. If i only had senator twelve mares and i said well who does the meeting because i did the meetings for all this is what's fun for me you know i i. I'll never listen to a bloodstock. Never two months and you think the itself mating one hundred and seventy five mares every year you know how how much you need to love this to to do that. And and and the guy comes up with three kentucky who enters so far you know It's remarkable how many there's thirty seven conversations here lenny. How many did you have to choose from actually Probably a hundred. I would say you know like i said. I've kind of taken the jockeys out. Because i did that already and i just i just wanted to present what i thought were the best stories Go in with preconceived categories. I just wanted to go back and re read all of these and really think to myself. You know who were the best interview subjects purely on on substance in what they told me and And these are them. And and i just I'm just so pleased with at all in going back. And reword rereading these and editing on then you know boiling down. There's just so much that you learn every time you get go through there and you know parts of them just give me chills to hear these guys in their own voices It's just knowledge. You can't get you just can't get it anywhere else. And i really think these people i there were just so were coming for the most part to me which. I can't thank each of them enough for because you know the things. They in florida just critical for anybody who loves this game and wants to further And there's you know the one name on here. Nobody is going to know and his name is. Es clark junior and his son of brought him to the blood horse one day he was not one of the original black jockeys who became grooms that he was the next generation of guys who hung around and eventually became a groom for Ben johnson and kelly and walked with citation on the walk over to the kentucky derby Rub ponder who win the following year's kentucky and was actually there when ben jones was giving the instructions. Eddie arcaro unless appear in about how to ride citation and called down in the derby that year which is become a a huge point of contention in history. You know in the annals of force racing and mr clock was there that day and His remembrances are here in this book. And i was just so on or did after. I got to interview him. I got to take them over. To cal- you met farm. Even though he had been working for directly for so many years you've never gotten to the farm and be able to walk around with him in the cemetery and listened to him emotionally talk about the horses that he had his hands on. And that's just you know. Forget i a lovely lenny and Looking at it here. Es clark junior. And i actually thought through just to see if there was a picture. But they're they're actually there isn't And that is something. I should mention the the photographs That were selected Th-the some care went into that too And the pictures are really nice. Compliment to to the conversations. Yeah i i. I wish we hit included more of but Yeah and i wanna thank If i could give a special shout out to my good friend wrote a ferrara yearly departed library. Not that she's not with us anymore but she's not at keeneland anymore where she used to be the librarian And is so if you talk to jamie he he would say the same thing if you talked to. Anybody has written a book about arts raising in the last ten or fifteen years. So i'll tell you what an enormous health road. is because in researching and getting these photographs out so that they can be used in these books and she just couldn't have been any kind or in helping put together some big shout out the road well and for instance the picture Some of them. Are you go further back. Obviously than the conversation but There's a wonderful picture of helen alexander next to the king ranch pickup truck which is really cool. That's great yeah that that that is the werner. That's a great shot. Yeah one of the things about about the book two when it comes to those families like You know like a helen. Alexander and the names that the people see whether their historic or or current and helen alexander is both You you'll you'll get some insights into some of the histories As well so. There's there's just there's so many aspects of this from the business side to the as you mentioned the insights and the breeding ted bassett's Inclusion here certainly appropriate and There's no i there's really no piece of this that is not going to engage people You know you've got Mrs weber so enjoy and maggie mawson here. I mentioned mary lou. it it's It's just gonna be. I think One of those things that people can sit down and they're gonna read right through this and in short order. It's a perfect summer reading addition to everybody's list. Yeah and charles. The who you know is on tv anymore. We kinda forget that is such a joy just has always been such a joy to talk to And who has such funny story to sell fish she. She was reluctant versus the to be picked to be on tv. But you know you you would know by by watching and listening to her because she seems such a natural that they had literally dragged her out. A frankly i sleep. The cat rights is You know she was. She would be good at it and it says that shoes. She was such a blessing. This industry for so many years now to head conversations with a generation of horse racing legends university of kentucky press and and as i said last week with jamie nicholson The uk press as is such a remarkable outlet in whatever arena. Whatever discipline that they you know. They green light books. I mean they they are. They are an author's friend To say the least letty and Was there was there any hesitation. How much pitching was necessary to to land To land a deal with this book. Yeah no hesitation at all That really embraced it from the get-go Just the choice to work with You know really let the they let their writers you know right in the fashion that they want to and now it's just great to work for you know i i try to get them to charge you for the book i sent out to the they wouldn't even take money such the kind of people they let's speaking of which in terms of ordering and in terms of Preorder and delivery where things stand. Yeah you can go right to kentucky press dot com and order it right from the publisher Amazon it's up there. hasn't been officially released. So it's an preorder phase. It will be shipped Sometime in july to you if you order it now But it is it avezzano as it kentucky press dot com will be barnes and noble and all that. Good stuff and Really i i i would. I would almost venture that to offer a money back guarantee. Because i'm on just that certain people will find so much enjoyable about this that i can't wait to get it out there because i i just enjoy i pick it up at any point in the book and i start reading and you know it's an hour later and i said okay i gotta go walk the dog but But yeah. I really have high hopes for this and i. I truly think anybody who loves to send. The street will enjoy that canada's well and when they're while they're there and ordering They can they can order all the other titles discography. Yeah and i right now tentatively I will be signing at nor shar books on broadway in saratoga august and One of the subjects Has agreed to sit with me Tom burke and is gonna do this signing with cool and unless he backed ad in which case i'll have to get a replacement but But tom is the as agreed to to do that with me. Which i'm just thrilled. Thrilled beyond belief that so August six Six o'clock David before the whitney come on out and get your copy there at north shire. And i'm very excited about that and you know tom. Tom can be mayor saratoga anytime he wishes to run. Obviously well i. You know hearing this now. I wish i could've gotten tom. Durkin to sign the as a witness on on our wills Ah ah skip fix facts. That is actually in the background and When you come to town obviously we will We will feature you on loose on the lead. Seth marrow are you with us. I am i am interview. We gotta have money on. When we're when we were up the sunday show syracuse alumni. Show very good. the cruel loves. You'll any the cruel loves you. They they're waiting for the lenny appearance every year. Now i have. An amazing appeals for guys can wear kilts for some kilt waiting A good well. And so the whitney. I if if you're doing this friday august sixth So let's pencil him. In for the eighth sunday we'll promo the science. Come on the get whether it well you know how long. How long are you going to be in town. I am not coming up early this year. I'm coming up in late july because my house is vacant. And i'm doing an extended visit. Oh that's tremendous while we've been waiting everybody's been waiting for you to you know to move into that house. You bought that house. What six seven years ago already. Twelve nicer unbelievable. All right so then. The sap is right on top of this and so We're gonna we're gonna look for yeah exactly Makes it yeah. Well what can i tell you so Hold on sunday august. First day sunday august. I think you'll see lenny on the show. And you know if you're gonna stay for august when i leave to go to del mar and debate you. Could you could jump in you. You could really be joey bishop. And here's your chance. I like that. Yeah yeah i'll be doc severinsen great. Yeah all right. Don't be don't be joan rivers though all of a sudden your over your over tv g competing with make i you know. I actually once sat with joan rivers and her dog in the sound booth. At bally's in las vegas are watching andrew dice clay perform so we joan and i have quite a history like the way i would have liked to have set next to joan rivers. Well andrew dice. Clay was before. I'm assuming she was a fan. She wants to fan. She wasn't fan out to yes. Yes yes So that that's the downriver sword. But you know i am very tight with melissa as well as the daughter so i can make that happen for that. That that Anything anything to take away from me is is is a winner with the with the fans. Bring melissa rivers and jon lovitz. Well we'll have a great show. Oh man yeah. Liar and jerry garcia's birthday august berg salsa. So are you did you. Are you going to go to deadandcompany before travers. You know i actually. I hard core You know Having seen the real thing. I i do not go to then company interesting. I'd yeah i'd without jerry. It is not Something that i would be afraid to go see quite honestly And without bill last year as well so now i don't do that but but i i certainly relish the seventy five shows. I did got say so. That's a nice good. that's three. I remember actually. Thank god for the tape so i know what happened and you know like you mentioned that you know you. Obviously you in and sat there are syracuse alums and colgate for me and the dead whenever they whenever they were marauding Across one part of the state to another or if they were heading for ohio or or you know heading for pennsylvania western pennsylvania they would they would make stops at cornell at syracuse at colgate very famous show. Actually the i know the colgate. Joe i saw them at cornell In that would have been what seventy nine was it. Yep yep was air The colgate show is phenomenal Seventy eight i want to say. Seventy seven seventy seven seventy seven hours. It was a blizzard Great show yes. They would hop the nate utica appleton syracuse rochester buffalo. I was working a lot of schoolwork going on those week. Well and and so the credit to the the the way the. What's amazing about this. Is that the you know. The student associations at at places like cornell colgate syracuse had. I'm sure a lot of schools or anybody went and they were in touch with booking agents and if if there was an open night in between you know a show at it albany at the knickerbocker and in in buffalo at the odd. They would get acts like this. And colgate had a famously a series of incredible shows including the dead and also Famously springsteen on on an off night and small venues yes arenas these were for like high school gym type of lices. Yeah well coal gates are colgate gates jim. The colorado court holds two thousand five hundred amazing little feet. We saw little feat not long before. George died and bob marley to the halloween. Show nineteen eighty which was unbelievable. Great stuff yeah funny funny and of course for those of you that the because i have to bring it up. Whenever we're all together like this i guess Eleni an i not far apart and we didn't know this until fairly recently we both worked at the united daily dispatch. I saw your quits recently. That you posted on social media phenomenal Yeah what. I just great memories right. I mean just a phenomenal marijuana. Great place to gain experience for a writing career on to persons sports desk and my added ours. The second guy and my editor couldn't write a lick but but was a great editor. Who taught me how to be an editor and you know is A a a skill that served me in great stead ever since and Man on night it was it was just a great place to start Really was that is crazy. Small world coincidence. If you're talking about small we're did you vote Cover little vernon downs. I did on the only one of the number one guy took a few days off because he would do that he loved doing that. But yeah we we would Make selections at vernon Every every day. That was running. Absolutely i did as well although i was not. The i was not the prime guy for for vernon downs. But i i put that feature up recently about harry hogan that That was the thing that lenny's referring to but my my beat was farm. The farm news of which there was no shortage and Religion news and of course tee shots. My golf column You know. Mrs mrs marian. Whiteley scored a per-. I hold one hundred and five yard. Par three thunderbird country club catastophe. This is what. I had a weekly column as well called the behind the bench called and i successfully pick the yankees to beat the dodgers and six games on the eve of the seventy seven world series. And i hit it right on ahead so i was. I was one for one in my world series nas and they are a daily i. There was no there was no experience. I been thrown out of school for a year and Rather than rather than go back to connecticut and face my parents. I taught john hubbard john. Hubbard got me John was a columnist for for the this batch and my good friend and and He got me he got me. The job there was opening and ended up being. You know a tremendous year and a half gig until i graduated from colgate I lived in. I lived right night. I lived in a little apartment. That rent i think was one hundred and ten dollars a month Which i remember. I remember it was just over a hundred bucks. It was It was a great community. So if you had the picture next to the teashops column. They recognized supermarket. Oh sure sure poor. Four the casino being up You know and there was a small town. And i'll tell you the one memory of vernon downs. It was the first race track. I was ever at a where i saw people. Three folding chairs to sit on the is looking at this i i. I've never heard of this before. It's pretty funny. Well that that. That was the topic earlier this earlier. This morning with pat mckenna. Joined us Head-to-head latest book. And he's got a million of conversations with a generation of horse racing legends. We just had a conversation with a generation of horse racing legends lynch marrow. Seth gets recognized all over the place every pictures on the wall. Hey now eight now. I if i don't talk to you talk in two weeks where i'm vacation next week. Okay next wednesday and look forward to come down the road and looking forward to august personnel and money sitting next to us up outstanding. Seth marrow len showman earlier. Bill downs and the action. Now this afternoon at indiana and marcus. Hearst joined us to talk about the terrific turf festival action this evening at canterbury. Good luck to them pat mckenna as well as we got everybody situated with their ticketing for the saratoga summer season and fernanda sire watch pedigree focused brought to you by hill and dale. Good luck today. Everybody talk to you in the morning. At the races here sirius. Xm summit the apple. God she does bryden down by the. There is a so z. Racing at the reasons. With steve on sirius. Xm radio horseplay. Here's the southern california. Daytime thoroughbred racing circuit is back at los alamos racecourse. Exciting summer meet. Day is friday. June twenty fifth. And we'll one through monday july fifth. I post once again. Pacific and has always exciting racing. Action is ahead are opening weekend features bertrando steaks on saturday. June twenty six followed by a great fourth of july weekend embracing on saturday. july third. the los alameda sturdy heads the marquee past winners of this race include eclipse award winners accelerate shared belief game winner and more on sunday. July fourth los alamitos will host a live money handicapping contests with two berths to the twenty twenty two. Nhc up for grabs and on closing day. Monday july fifth the racing action will be headed by the great lady m states force. Please remember the los alamitos features of traditional two dollars. Pick six with a seventy thirty split this summer. Citing daytime thoroughbred racing back at los alamitos race course for more visible alameda dot com.

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Part 1:Seth &  Steve Holiday book suggestions

Thoroughbred Racing Radio Network

1:05:02 hr | 8 months ago

Part 1:Seth & Steve Holiday book suggestions

"Percents raises with steve. Big raising handicapping interviews. This is who will do a very good tuesday. Grace fans series to nineteen xm to once more zone nine sixty four. If you're listening to siriusxm online and at our websites depict dot com and by the way if you're listening to sirius. xm online. Casey and i had some fun this morning. Because casey was having trouble getting to the to the serious online part and eddie said do you. Do you have the app. And i and i had the app and i'm i said this before. I i just never. For whatever reason i never really have a need to listen to the network on the phone. I just don't listen in car. And i i suppose sitting at the desk i. Should you know the those occasions although i am working at the desk i don't think i i don't know if i'm not somebody hammers somebody that loves having music on in the background that you know the either is ambient noise or you know just to enjoy something. I suppose this is a an individual pr- election if you like people like that for tv on in the background. I get that he said this before. Tina has to have the tv on going to bed. Which never. I've never done that. I might have fallen asleep here and there with the tv on but she has to have it on. And so now. I have to have an i guess But anyway so this morning we were poking around. And i it casey said in. Are you getting. Can you get the show on on the app store. And i said well let me let me go. Look at the app it. Because i never do so i i went. I opened it up. And i couldn't remember my logging for a minute but then i got it and i'm gonna use it more now that i've now that i've actually clicked through and Even though over the years they've moved us around a little bit I i did get a kick out of going to channel nine sixty four because on the on the app you gotta go to nine sixty four all the way you know th literally at the end of the dial. It's one of the play-by-play channels. It's always. I mean we've always been on a play by play channel for the most part over the years and it was just kinda thought i'd now i guess i'm i'll do it more often. And by the way speaking of which tina had gotten me for my birthday last month the tina got me a set of the beats headphones bluetooth. Off your off your phone around. I suppose off the computer at. It's very cool. Because she d- she says. I don't hear anything. And frankly after fifteen years of broadcasting and having the cans on your head case right. The you're hearing shot. I mean you you. You're mixing music too. So i'm sure it's not unusual but i get my hearing is not what it used to be. But she doesn't want me putting those the the earbuds so she got me. This the beats headset. And it's very cool. I like it a lot. So now that i've got the beats headphones. I think i am going to use the app more. Because if i play on the phone from the network it'll play in the i soon right. It'll play on the on the beaks. Yeah so i'm i'm. This was like a revelation this morning. Casey and i to all all of this by the way was was tripped by Sometimes on on The the hosting of the The replay and the pod is. Obviously you know. Obviously we're part of the network so we play music but the you know those those hosting services they. They've got a different situation when it comes to you know when it comes to licensed music so some of those occasions where things cut off. It's for that reason that things are being blocked. So if you don't let us know if you run into that so that's that's that's why casing were jumping through hoops this morning. And i and i realized that you know having having the subscription to to sirius. Xm that you get to use the the online to the app so this was. This was fun. it's morning that's that's that's all to say Speaking of fun yesterday John heard what what what a fun visit. And then after the show we talked to john and a seed was planted for kind of a specialty. Kind of a special show. I i don't know when we'll do. It will do it over the winter. we'll find. We'll find a quiet week and the vote. You know either. A show or a couple of hours to a topic came up. He is a huge sports collector and not only sports memorabilia and he's got a sent a couple of pictures an incredible collection and there's quite a few people that just off the top of my head. I i asked him. I said did you ever talk to to clock or john. John nichols and he knows you can. John has spent winters in in new orleans and of course from the contest. Seen john knows john but he didn't realize that john was an avid collector. And then i also mentioned greg foley who john had let me know. Greg foley was a big collector himself. Although greg says he's not as big a collector as as john nichols is anyway. We've never done this. I think maybe there's been a the occasion when a memorabilia racing memorabilia topic has bubbled up but we've never done specifically i as a topic collecting racing memorabilia and i i think it'd be great and obviously you know with broader i mean anybody that collects racing. Memorabilia has got other sports memorabilia. To how do you not. And i know i was collecting. And they say by the way i see the sports cards. Seen has has absolutely Taken off again after you know after a real law in in sports card pricing. I saw i saw that The oh peachy card that the other day with the gretzky. The gretzky your rookie card That that was one of only three that was viewed as you know mint. Perfect the forget what. The term is But went for one point four million most ever for a one point two million most ever for a for a hockey card and I i've got. I've got a handful. I used to god. I i had. I had lot of cards my mother. of course. everybody's mother through the mountain. But i've got a few but my my racing. Memorabilia has over the last twenty years that has gotten a lot of attention and i. It's fun about racing. Memorabilia is that it's it's esoteric there so Pretty different than i think than in a lot of a lot more physical than I mean although there is there there are you know gloves and uniforms. I suppose a yeah there you go. I guess You think about you know autographed pictures and wind pictures but saddle cloths. That's like uniforms halters halters. Obviously that's a unique. That's a unique again. That's something i guess. I guess that bats right bats and anyway It would definitely you're gonna we're definitely gonna do a sports memorabilia special and we'll get a couple of people that Are are into it on the racing side as well as racing people that have wider sports collections. At and i just heard from hurricane he he. The one thing he felt badly about and felt remiss from yesterday's visit was that he didn't plug the champ. Michael bay check. He didn't get a chance to put in the plug as as he does on many occasions champ for the hall of fame where is wet. Does the champ going to make the hall. So we'll put that plug in. And i guess they've started they've started. They've started a change dot org petition to get paycheck in the hall of fame is pretty funny so i am happy to put that plug in for john. He didn't get a chance but so he's going to be back again for a third time in less than six months because over the winter will do a sports collectible special all right. I've said this before. I've got i've got those saddle cloths i've got maybe maybe eight or nine And i've got got some funny things my friend. Cherokee steve beck b. c. k. Longtime van driver for brook ledge and he gave me a few things one summer. Some kits and some things that he gave me the the commemorative replica truck. The van that was made for cigar when he was taken to. We've talked about this with asking before when he was taken to madison square garden. The national horse show and paraded there. Steve is toll story about it. It's pretty pretty amazing but there was this. Put a picture up of it. I'll put picture of the box because it it's completely unopened. It's never even come out of the. It's in styrofoam in the box. It's never even been taken out of that. So i'm not gonna screw with it. It's one of those things. I like like like an action. Figure that right. It's in the boxes that yeah not now. I'm getting now getting a a a tweet and and a facebook message about briars does that does that. Count as memorabilia. The people to collect the you know the horse the horse figurines the all right. Yeah i guess. I guess i i don't want to. I don't want to exclude anybody. This is this'll be an inclusive conversation. Now i've got i've got. I've got some cool things. And as i mentioned the other day and in fact what a what a perfect segue. I was on with seth merrin on sunday on on racing across america. Although i maintain that. If i'm on with seth it technically it's loose on the lead but you know we always do our last minute christmas gift guide and i was gonna do it. Live at go through you know. Essentially the the list. That i went through with seth on sunday. But then i realized you know what we're just gonna play. It's about twenty minutes. Twenty five minutes would just gonna play the segment. That i did with seth and it goes through We got about a half dozen books and you know some most. We discussed at some point the last year and one in particular at the end when we go through this That i haven't had a chance to announce. Oh or you know. Follow through or follow up the awarding of the doctor. Tony ryan book award to better lucky. Than good the louisville story project anthology or collection of oral histories from the backstretch at churchill did win and it it it seemed to me. I'm sure i said it. At the time. It seemed to me. That i it was a slam dunk. Not not just hearing about it. But you know we're starting to read it and go through the amazing personal reflections about the game. I in better lucky than good. So congratulations to the team. At the louisville story project the that know has really done a service. I mean they say it's a. It's a wonderful collection of personal stories That reflect life on the racetrack specifically Churchill or in and around kentucky if you don't if you haven't gotten it yet absolutely have to get it so you're gonna hear this collection and i for those that missed the individual books When we had the live discussions there's actually two books on the list that we haven't had conversations about mark schreyer's biography of diane crump. I have not gotten my hands on this yet. And i've got to seek out mark schrager because we haven't had a chance to discuss the diane crump book and then a book that apparently is available at that has a publication date of january. But i i from what i can tell is can be ordered and and you can get your hands on richard. Asquith has written a book called unbreakable. That i talk about Which is an incredible story. That i think is widely unfamiliar at. Actually there was. There was some this summer. There had been some coverage or or some retrospective about. This can't call it an incident but this occasion in one thousand nine hundred thirty seven and it tells the story of lotta burn the sofa who was czechoslovakian born at the chuck's avakian Aristocracy but was the didn't grow up was born into it but didn't get to really participate or enjoy the the benefits of it But grew up in equestrian circles and won the nineteen thirty seven grand part of us the which is grand national of czechoslovakia and the part of us is the most demanding chase course in the world tougher apparently even than than aintree grand national. That's similar four miles for plus miles. And what's amazing about this story is but she's the only woman woman to ever win it but that's not even the best part. The best part is the. Nazis sent a group of their cavalry officers to win so it wasn't enough to be humiliated in the nineteen thirty six olympics in munich they they wanted to come back and get humiliated and jackals of akia. Thanks a lot of ron desilva. So this book looks absolutely. I cannot wait to get my hands on it on. Breakable richard. Asquith anyway ma'am basically going through this already but The the segue that i promised. That's the that's the law that segues longer than the tappan zee bridge. The i mentioned the making your own memorabilia in racing and you can do it by acquiring photographs and you know Adam cog lanese the colonies photo. Any picture you want from new york and florida as well because adam does sculpturing but all the great pictures of his father That his father took or the most historic pictures of the last half century. In new york. You can order those. The beauty is you can take those photos and seek out. When we get a chance to go back to the racetrack. You can make your own memorabilia by taking those photographs. I've got the picture. The picture of the savage from the tremont. The nineteen eighty tremont. I've got jorge velasquez. Signed it if fact. I've got two pictures that george side. I've got that. And i've got a picture that my late photographer. Friend john hubbard. John so happens that john took a picture of the one thousand nine seventy eight travers from the backside which is totally cool. It's a picture no one's ever seen. I'll put this up on twitter. You'll love it and John's got a. It's got to be a point in the incident. Occurred between affirmed and alydar. it has to be. I think i show. She should watch the video again. I think it's right bef- right ahead of the incident. The foul that resulted in in our doors being elevated. but anyway george signed that for me to and their their personal you can create your own personal the jockeys and trainers i've got. I mentioned a was that yesterday. I mentioned the. I mentioned on the i mentioned on this on this video. You're gonna listen to greg. Montgomery's artwork want the. You want to a quick christmas gift that can be in your hands. You know By the weekend plenty of time you know we got ten days ten days out order order gregg montgomery's at work and You know there's another gift that any horse player and race fan is going to enjoy so You're going to hear about jennifer kelly. Sir barton book the diane crump book. This unbreakable of course dave hill with the vapors Better lucky than good lou. Story project tony ryan award winner and also that travers. Coffee table book. The brian billion. Mike beach did and greg montgomery those are the the gift ideas that you're going to hear about so let's do that. Let's take about twenty minutes. Get your pen ready. and i'll do. I'll put up links to everything on twitter as well and when we come back when we come back after listening to this. I wanna talk about the got. The eclipse ballot from jimmy clarkson and Did my first task. And i do want to talk about that Before the top of the hour later steve. Anderson is gonna join us. And andy serwer. Todd pletcher and much more but i here. Is this twenty twenty last minute. Christmas gift guide for the horse lover on your list. First up the books are barton. Give us some thoughts on that one. Well the sir barton story. We talked about it for frankly for about eighteen months when it came to light that jennifer kelly Who is alabama based and just loves racing. She's a historian and writer by trade and she absolutely push every button in this book she. She's got a historic perspective about the life. And times of the era and the people involved commander rawson and Guy bedwell and then of course you know sir barton himself who is the most obscure of the triple crown winners who one of the more obscure. There's there's a couple of others that remain you know kind of less defined and and less written about but This book has more than just a horse story involving you know the the major principles it really talks about how the triple crown became the triple crown. And of course. When when sir barton broke his maiden in the in the derby and then wins the preakness and belmont. He didn't really nobody really celebrated it as anything other than you know. Nice wins by a three year old. It was only later on really with the gallon fox that it sort of became of errant that the there was something tying these three races together. So it it really. It's got a lot of depth to it beyond just the horse oriented and it also forced the rest of barton's career story which in itself is quite good including the famous match race the that he's involved in canada. There's a lot in here and has gotten a lot of notice. It was a dr. Tony ryan book award finalist and didn't win. We will talk about the winner in a minute but So barton in the making the triple brown jennifer kelly. She's got a new book that she's working on About belair and the woodward's and that's our next next book. This is from the university of kentucky are so terrific. They thank thank goodness. They weren't stripped of their funding By the previous complete complete completely renewed. Insane governor former governor of kentucky tried to take that money away and People rallied around the university of kentucky. Press so there's another book coming from her but she gets her barton's get you started. Yeah and speaking a history of folks who may be new to the game Diane crump certainly name worth paying attention to as well and so. There's a diane crump book on your list. Also a bio really one of the pioneers on the jockey side of the woman's jockey side of the game i'll admit freely. I have not read this yet and it was one of the books came out mid year and a kind of got lost in the shuffle. And it didn't it didn't seem to have the same You know advertising or marketing initiatives behind it that a lot of the other equine themed tomes did have and so mark schrager the writer. I'm going to get a hold of him and i i. This is a book that i want to read. And i would think that this would appeal to you. Know a lot of people that that don't know her story. You know she if it for whatever reason it's much of a pioneer she was among the female. Riders gets the recognition that she deserved. So the diane crump story i i. I'm very curious. And i'll get mark schrager on to talk about the book and as i say for you're on familiar we're taking a look at that. Part of the history of the game certainly was a pioneer there. i'm scrolling down to the next Photo and and. I'm glad you tossed this. I wouldn't have thought about this but certainly this is one that you can pass onto. Family racing family in france prince from greg. Montgomery we've had him on the show plenty of times and boy if you're saratoga fan but just a racing fan in general but the this stuffy does focused on the travers every year and whatnot if you're looking for a little artwork for home or the man cave or whatever. Greg montgomery does great work. Well we have greg on virtually every summer with a the introduction of the poster. Signings or the travers. It's really amazing story. And there's a book is a book in itself. Actually the the book that he did with exacerbate laid big ass. And that's the first twenty five years. Travers artwork greg the way this of bomb he. He was trained in new mexico and he has that sort of south western art aesthetic to his word. It started out if for those that aren't aware as you know. See that nice montage of his work. It started out where he literally would make the posters by cutting out. East of of kraft paper. You know art our level quality colored paper and he would make and basically you know put together. Assemble those posters and it's evolved from that into illustration and they're much more obviously the last fifteen years at least is much more detailed and more involved. I love the early ones. And they're all available. I mean he has now. Gregg has now reissued copies of the prince that basically a came out of circulation and go to the website. It's a it's a shop fi website easiest way to find his. You know his shop is online. Shop is just do a search for greg montgomery art and it's greg dash gumri dot my shop. Affi- it's it's kind of involved. But just do greg montgomery art and you'll be led to the online store for all of his prints and i i've got i've got fifteen of them and what i've done of late actually and this is something you can do next summer. You can take the poster of whatever. Favorite winner of travers. You've got and go have jimmy. Jerkins sign it or baffert when he comes to town for aggregate and you know all the different ones. I've got a show. god. I've got one that's signed by. I've got karl nap for and in wilkes signed the one with street cents and grasshopper. So your neighbor. Essentially your favourite travers winner is from the last thirty. Five years is is in. This are in greg's artwork plus there's more generic themes you know the the ladies and big hats look And so forth So i i greg montgomery you can never go wrong. Reasonably priced You don't necessarily have to get it frame. You know you frame up his stuff that ends up being three four hundred dollars by if you to give somebody a quick. You know quick gift. Give them a greg montgomery poster of saratoga no matter no matter if they're saratoga regulars or people that would are so looking forward to being able to come to saratoga either again or the first time greg montgomery is is the the artistic ambassador to the world really for saratoga. Yeah we had him on this summer via zoom and this summer you put himself into this summer sponsor did he did a. He did a hitchcock in a leaning on the rail coming up the up the shoot from the paddock track apron. It's pretty fun. I i got a kick out of him doing that. This curious about unbreakable at some titled the woman who defied the nazis in the world's most dangerous force rates top. A little bit about that one. This is this is amazing under told story that came to light with the release of this book. I think officially the book. I think the quote unquote release date is in january but the book has been available for several months. And it's a. It's a story. That until i read about it this year i was unfamiliar with a woman by a lotta brandy sova. Who was born in to czechoslovakian royalty but who was unable to enjoy that basically roll up in modest means but grew up with an equestrian background and equestrian training and in one thousand nine hundred twenty s or nineteen. Twenty seven seven. She was able to run in the part of this. You know which is essentially the grand national of eastern europe. It's czechoslovakia's grand national for all intensive purposes it's about a four mile Sequel jas event and it is a not just not just grueling in its own right as a four mile. Steeplechase is going to be. It's particularly difficult. Steeplechase course incredibly demanding with hills up and down. You know. it's almost like on a venting. Like going to the land rover to the four star event at the kentucky or spark when they do the cross tree quest inside is commanding course. This is my and lots of brandies over one it in nineteen thirty seven. She's the only woman to ever win. Ever went it and she did it against a handful of nazi cavalry officers that were sent to it to basically show off your the nazi superiority. So not only were. They humiliated in the olympics the year before they get pretty well humiliated in czechoslovakia as well as this has got a lot of history to in addition you not just the equine side. Richard asked with the author and unbreakable a really really compelling and i. I'll be surprised if this doesn't get option by somebody into a film. It's a natural. I'm gonna have to check that one out at the at the. I was intrigued by the subtitle to hear the story. There are eight. Let's move on to another one We had david hill on with us up at saratoga via zoom because he was talking about the vapors which was a lot of fun because it kind of it melts in with saratoga fans. Because he's talking about things that has a close relationship just theoretically with with togan the way things developed at saratoga with the gambling in casinos and the racetrack and whatnot. Then so as i say we thought hill about The vapors of this summer but remind people well. This is again. this is a book. I've been talking. Dave hill about the release of the vapors for close to five years and the story is remarkable in itself. It's you know it's it's a book that is not you can't call it fiction but it's not a nonfiction either. It's a novel It it's it's about six different things for those that the joy e. l. dr o Ragtime or the book that it's been most closely paralleled with is night in the garden of good and evil and which is tremendous. It's best selling the i think the bestselling nonfiction our best selling fiction book of all time. Perhaps david was brought up in hot springs. He's a native arkansan and arkansan and his family. is is rough and tumble. Let's put it that way. And david hill is captivated by the world of of kearney's and huckster 's and leaders. And you know ne'er do wells of of all size and shapes and what this book is is essentially a multi generational history of hot springs and its evolution from a gamble. Not just a gambling mecca. But really the las vegas of the first half of the century before las vegas. There was hot springs and for those that have been there. I mean it is as i don't want us a. Cd is not the right word. But it is as just sort of redolent of gangsters and of you know of canard's and and swindlers and it it just has a amazing atmosphere. And that's what the book is It it's basically a southern gothic tale with david using his family as the protagonists then he folds in all kinds of authentic Gamblers and and mafioso like going oni. Madden you know who came to hot springs from new york and basically set these up for capone and verb. You know the the the whole underworld of the era. It is it spectacular. I it's been up for numerous awards and david david actually was cheated by the pandemic because by all rights he he should have been on a a whirlwind s. Four book tour for signings and at at racetracks and hopefully that will be allowed next year. I mean certainly. I hope we'll get back to hot springs and do something at oaklawn if and when we can all you know attend places openly in person with post pandemic insight. I cannot recommend this enough. The vapors by david l. and i will also say just recently. David hill has announced He's got a podcast concentrating on gamblers. I have a chance to listen but that sounds like it's fun to it is every everything. He touches the racing the racing industry america's best racing and so forth they latched onto him. I don't even know how. I never even asked them how they found him but he started doing features for a while ago. And i don't know if that's how i found more maybe thoroughbred commentary ran a story of his and i had him on at the start of a season at oaklawn and then it became a regular thing. That's how i learned about him working on the book and after literally doing a draft of the book almost basically completing it he actually started again and redid the book and he's much happier with the way this turned out then his first goal round. But this is really a lifetime in the making and You you will literally reduce in two days three days It's that kind of a book. It's gonna just grab right away. And i i i think people will just love it if they're unfamiliar or if they've been hearing about all year that's an interesting story in itself because for an author that's has to be a huge decision all right this version out of fresh piece of paper and i prayed her. He's got there are so many. I i think there's at least one. Maybe two of our conversations earth the best of page at the races. I've had some of to me. Some of the most enjoyable visits with with dave ill. It'd be every time you talk to him. He's like an onion you find out all these layers of of things about him you know. He's he's been published in the new yorker and esquire and g. q. look for his work And and you'll just you instantly become a fan Eat stuff stuff comes out about him all the time. He told the story on twitter inadvertently. Somebody had asked for one of those. You know things you know. Tell us the story. You'd never about yourself. You'd never told anybody. And he he told this story about how when he was in high school. A buddy of his a buddy but a kid that he knew from school robbed a bank and the bank robber and the cohort are chase throughout hot springs. And somehow he ends up in dade inox on on dave's door. He had like a back door to his to his room and dave hit him in a closet as the police came looking for him. He told he told this story on twitter. It's like it's like every time i do anything with hill. There's like a something remarkable bubbles to the surface. He he did. He did a thing for a year. Where if any panhandler lives. He was living in brooklyn. And if any panhandler asked him for a handout he would give them whatever he had in his pocket. He said he was going to do this for a year. And it turned into an article in i think g. q. And it's unbelievable. It is really one of those people in life who is a is basically a a prison for for life and things flow basically threw him and he interprets it in the written word for people. He's a treasure hill. A like you. I've had him on well for me. A handful of times over the past few years but like you. I think i think i originally found his work over on. Apr that's what attracted me and had put him on. And as i say you and i had him on talking about vapors this summer via zoom at and going back again to a little earlier in the conversation. You mentioned the tony ryan book award. You mentioned you talk about this year's winner and it was better lucky than good. This is this is a book bad. Really you makes us unique. Is the word definitely. It defies. I mean it. It's it's essentially. it's an oral well first of all. Let's say what it is. It's the product of a group in louisville called the louisville story krajicek and what they're doing is they're creating written transcripts essentially of oral histories of various topics and what they've done here going to the backstretch at churchill and all to people in and around the game in its it's astounding and the count feel how many there are. I'm going to say there's twenty eight to thirty of these shorts and there's a lot of names and a lot of people telling their story that you'd be familiar with or named heard since butch lear longtime tracks super ensure joel and how how bat Neil huffman ben hopkins uncle something. Keep track wacky. There's there's more than you can shake a stick at neil huffman and greg who has a star-crossed story of some problematic inter light there's backstretch crystal trae. Oh and christina beta you'll be you'll be captivated by this there there's so many emotional Being told in here people's lives as related to and through the racetrack and more than anything better lucky than good helps your understand the value of the racetrack in society. In this era because the the racetrack is a safety net for people who don't fit in elsewhere in a lot of cases or people that were born into a scenario that that put them on the racetrack or you know on on stallion farms or a breeding farms. Whatever whatever form the jay-paul them on the road to be exercise riders etc. And if you frankly if you are one of these people that complain and who are constantly bullying the industry grow quote. I would recommend you read this book and it. It'll it'll change your perspective. There's nothing about it and there's nothing in it at specifically addresses. You know this sport as we know it and it as some people seem to be disappointed in at every turn the people and their dedication to the ass it will give you a better understanding of why the game exists and how invaluable it is and i it sober the of our adoration and our our dedication to it. This i knew. I knew when i read the first three or four chapters that this was was going to win the doctor. Tony ryan award as much as the other books. Like sir barton. I forgot to mention justify lenny shannon's book at all all the various other books that were in a very worthy sir. Barton was a finalist. This was this was going to win because it was the most important book about racing this year. I mean by a wide margin and not just in in recent memory. I if you want to buy yourself a present. I if you wanna give you know give a gift to somebody that you know will be really moved about the sport and the people that make it happen then. A lucky than good is number one. On your less yeah. I'm glad you mentioned it. Because i had written down Justify hundred eleven days to the triple crown to triple crown glory. Bileny shulman was one of the finalists to the award As well forget. Our friend lenny there and finally had on your list as well. The travers book that. Brian and mike beach collaborated this. You know this isn't new. I didn't bring it upstairs downstairs literally on the coffee table where a coffee table book belongs. It's a couple years old now. But this is a just an unbelievable labor of love by brian and my beach and absolute must have for anybody. You know that that loves this big race saratoga in premier race of course every summer and And one of the easily one of the five most important races in the sport every single year. it's just wonderful. It's one of those things you literally. You know you pick it up you put it in your lap and you read through your read. A read about a couple of different travers every so often and you know once you've once you've read You know the hundred and fifty of the then you go back and start again again this and this would make a wonderful president for anybody that That that has a fan of of the game in the travers on their list thought that Important include. Brian and mike space absolutely nuts tying back in a cover up by greg gumri so it all ties back in as well save. We'll let you go. We got to wrap things up. We appreciate the thoughts of the annual visit. I think there's some good ideas there again. Not only family and friends but as you kind of alluded pick some of these up for yourself as well. There certainly worthwhile taking a look at appreciate the visit Wish you antena happy holidays and oh late. Attractive parades going on in green you. You've got to cancel because damage aboard. I would have been it would been already almost a month ago. It was gonna be if it was gonna happen however for those that are driving around. If you happen to be coming out the washington county there are the kind of people you know the farmers and people that have access to trackers. They've got the trackers on their wants. So they're all they're also strategically placed around town a a the fairgrounds. Here's one over by the hand mellon the market and then there is a map. Actually if you go to the green which i guess beats the green witch facebook big. There's a map of where the light detractors off so you can drive around and and see the light detractors yourself and since we went down this road sat i'm gonna mention something is transpired in town. We've been waiting for a long time. Walis has been completely renovated. The entire building has been rebuilt and sometime very soon after the first of the year walis of green which is going to reopen and walis racetrack irs. Walis was an absolute meeting ground. Every jockey agent for decades would have dinner at walis every night and that. That's a tradition. That goes back to the forties and while he's fell on some rough times About ten years ago sat empty this whole period and has been beautifully renovated. So those of you that remember while he's agreeing witch There's gonna be a new walis and we're all eagerly awaiting it it'll it'll be the the centerpiece in town that it was for decades. Excellent excellent will afford that seat again. Appreciate the visit and as they say to both of you. Happy holidays best to you and all the viewers in capital district and beyond and thanks that catalog gb for another great year Enjoy the holiday. Stay safe for almost through this and look forward to a great twenty. Appreciate steve beck again. You get a sirius. Xm's at the races every weekday more into a great job of covering the game and of course summertime sitting next me loose on the lead as well and annually. We have the little gift guy. Hopefully give you some great ideas all right there. You go little you want me to let me. I've got about five six seven minutes later. The might as well fill it out there. You got your all set. And i'll put links up with all the with all the pictures that The show the books and actually quite a few of them for kelly responded to this with Her the blog entry. That has quite a few books. That were just mentioned. Actually i think the only ones that aren't That weren't there. She had I don't think she had better Lucky on there but Obviously her book diane crump book and vapors and the traverse coffee table book so and then and then she had a few others that There were there weren't necessarily all in the past year but Some that absolutely would be Other options all right. So there you go and And i i really will stress the photograph. I just put up pictures of the things. I talked about The phantom colonies photographs naira photographs and the pictures dad took famous legendary shots Secretariat and the savage the nineteen eighty three month and in a historic courses. Any anything that was run in new york and and also for florida from the last. I think adam took over. It's probably more than ten years now but You can reach out the collines photo and i'll put the links up actually am adams got a Facebook page as well For photographs bob collines photos dot photo shelter dot com and Collines cg la any se. Actually i mentioned. I think around saratoga atom also has guy painting three different designs of masks with over. Hopefully the masking her dwindle here. The need for them soon. Enough but I think he's got three different saratoga one. He's got an american pharaoh. One and a secretary three different mask photos which are pretty cool and And the greg montgomery art. So i put those pictures up of my own The one i put up the The great bird stone poster just one of my favorites with the storm bearing down on on the building. that's a classic Yeah and the the beauty greg. Montgomery work is that. There's there's virtually any color scheme that you've got a a room for wall. Whatever your whatever. The ambien. Philip walls and ceiling decor. There's a. there's a greg montgomery shop easily and quickly. I mentioned Dr all going to join us at the top of the hour by the way. I mentioned yesterday with that the genetics conversation and we'll let We'll but steve kinda riff on that topic. It's something we talked about years ago long time ago. But i'm going to revisit it given you know given the the white philly in japan and There's more white. There's more white thoroughbreds being brennan the us to But that piebald. I gotta find that picture the piebald from the other day So dr alday coming up top of the hour But i also had mentioned. We're going to got three days after today to talk a little bit about the eclipse Decisions and the voting think. The voting goes until january third fourth fifth in that range. And of course that's always recommended to wait till the end of the year. We still have a couple of great ones. The la brea and the malibu yet the to run but it does feel like most of the categories are very close to You know very close to being wrapped up Or if not already wrapped up but the ones that need examination and discussion. And we'll have some of these over the next couple of days owner breeder particularly owner-breeder and i. I'm going to tell you. I mentioned this before and this is a i. Suppose it's a pet project for me to some degree. Because i i always Seen distress and a certain owner That is very deserving of recognition. And the last several years i it. It felt really important to get seth klaren recognized and that happened last year. You know the frankly. The two previous years were equally Opportune to vote for seth clarkson as leading owner as an eclipse award owner One of the important things to do when it comes to these categories for specifically owner and breeder is to look beyond just the volume emmy for many years Voters it seemed with just a look at the top of the you know the the money earnings and just slap Those names up. Well i it. It's there's a lot more to it and you know particularly with some owners that you know that do participate in in partnerships. I don't mean in in you know the the large partnerships. I mean taking on partners on horses the the leading owner this year and to me last year gary barber it was. It was very hard last year after. Campaigning literally campaigning. I mean openly to get south carmen. The eclipse you know hat to certainly vote for last year. And i voted for gary barber. Second gary barber is the leading owner in the country. This year period. It's not even it. It doesn't even take a lot of imagination to you. Know to select him and and vote for him as you know your first choice standing alone even before the the two horses that he's that he's got partnership Interests in standing alone just with his name on the ownership line alone it. He won eight graded stakes and the two grade ones. A grade. Two and five or three. Excuse me three or five I just had it where to go. Yeah five is right. Five grade threes and so just alone. And then when you fold in the wins that he's had with partners like that and wachtel and company Janelle maker As well as the the juvenile. Filly as well with the quist where I think it's adam and yeah so it folded in those fold in those two partner horses. And there's another fourth grade once so gary barber standing alone or with his partners twelve graded snake winters. Sixth grade ones agreed to and five threes for over three point six million in earnings. So i gary barber this is the opportunity to recognize. And you have to do this. I mean when when the occasion arises that an individual owner you know his got the credentials it's important to show appreciation for their contribution the industry and It's gary barbara's year period. And i i i know i took there was a good three years of windmill. Tilting regarding clarkson before Before bricks and mortar seemingly made it that much easier for people to recognize south. But you know the the gary barber's and the and the charlotte weber's I mean they the engine on the train and when you have this chance. I mean some other names by the way that had Obviously we talked about costa ronan and Peter brant is is one of these years soon is is going to absolutely win one. Bob loath and back had a big year. The why costs three diamonds. Mike makers should be a finalist for trainer this year. So i'm just waiting into this Working on this this week and I quite happy to take on these. These kinds of causes because It's important. I know they're you know it's just a trophy that's going sit on a mantle but it then you know these these individuals there. They get tremendous enjoyment out of participating in the sport. And you know the reward on on the racetrack is is the most satisfying part of it for them. But when you have a chance to edge their name In in in this kind of manner it should be taken. Let's take top of the hour break. We'll come back. Dr steven all day horse l. Today brought to you by lubers reborn. We'll get steve's year end thoughts and we'll talk about some Equine genetics and why they look like they look why. Those colors Bubbled to the surface back after this hour to at the races with steve on sirius. Xm radio from early klein. The people that bring you ep. L. e. klein unlocking leader shield now.

greg montgomery diane crump Tony ryan sir barton saratoga jennifer kelly mark schrager john greg barton seth louisville Asquith greg foley Greg foley czechoslovakia arkansan John Cherokee steve beck Longtime van
Randall Hortonvs. the i

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48:39 min | 9 months ago

Randall Hortonvs. the i

"She's my twin sister that I met in Detroit Mall for any joy and they're my twin sister that I met at American summer camps to this. And you're listening versus the podcast or poets confront the ideas that moved to. And also their secret twins? What the hell was up at the nineties, people were just biding twin. Yeah I of thought that was going to happen to me one day. Be like this is the year you know I finally get my twin. Are you twin makes sense of me. You know young right here. Right and now now there's only just like my only twin is like the Franny Choi that lives on the Internet that people interact with. Like she's my long lost twin that I will forever be a contentious. Which is like not as fun like fewer secret handshakes at a lot more just like identity crises so Thanks a lot. Ninety S no. Twin parties just a lot of crying about the boxes that people put you in right? Right what is What do you think is the most significant difference between the Dennis Smith, the brand, the poet, the lifestyle guru. Oh, the brand is very much like bright Saturday morning cartoon and actuality is like dark Saturday night like like depressed adult swim cartoon you know. Very different you know like. You're a cartoon in both scenarios though I'm a cartoon above scenarios you know like, yeah, like it's very much like What's that one with the hamburger and the fries? Able, growing up. So I never knew and also the scared me I was like, Oh, these cartoons are swearing I don't WanNa Watch. Were was like you know like I'm like a very like you know like, sad, sad man who goes to work every day and then voices elmo. Yeah that's it. I think I'm like does like jolly maybe I am in some ways but I think like I have like you know been like you know maybe a little bit of the billy porter of poetry like Jolly Queer Well the billy. Temperature that'll be my next there the intro for you. Yeah. Well. It sounds racist coming from me. which is it does I like racism you know I feel about this. How about you? Though WHO's the? Who's the any that that that people think they know but they have no idea I think that it's similarly like, Oh, here's like the fun older older student. That's GONNA be the like racism. Workshop. Know. What I mean like and like it's because at some point I was literally the older student that was going to lead the fun racism workshop in your dorm. You know I was like the first way I knew how to like. Be Up in front of a room of people talking talking about something and so I think I've continued. Continued that brand. But yeah, I don't know I think that one has to kind of like seem like chipper to be like, invite me to your school and I am Chipper I am chipper but I also. Am Very. Sour about a Lotta things. Yeah, and pretty pretty. Pretty. Unhappy. Generally Oh. That's sorry. Ought to laugh at that so loud. Unhappy. Avenue. Quite unhappy. I wish we could just walk through the world and say that, yeah, it's true and also I think we both also have talked about being boxed into being like slam poets and stuff you know, yeah. Any aspects of your identity or your experience that you are comfortable like sort of peering out from in order to like would do something like write a poem by people are also willing to like limit you to that. Lind's to and our guest today Randall Horton who talks about. Being boxed into being particular kind of poet especially somebody who has had the experience of being incarcerated and what it's been like to come for the first time to writing about that experience in poetry in his new book, which just came out, which is called number two, eight, nine, Dash, one, two eight, which is referenced to the number that he was given a while in prison. So we are really excited to get to share with you all. This conversation that we had, with Randall where he talks about what it means to resist that experience of being boxed in Rondo horde and is the recipient of the books poetry award the Baggins Solace Poetry Award the Great Lakes College Association, New Writers Award for creative non fiction for Hook, a memoir published by Aubrey Books, and the National Endowment for the Arts Fellowship in literature he currently sits on the advisory board for pen. America's pen prison writing program in two. Thousand Eighteen in two, thousand, nineteen randomly was selected as poet residents for the Civil Rights Corpse in Washington DC, which is a nonprofit organization dedicated to challenging systematic injustice in the legal system. Dr. Randall Horton is currently the only tenured full professor in the United States of America at a university or college with seven felony convictions. He is a member of the experimental performance group heroes. Our Gang leaders was recently received two, thousand, Eighteen American Book Award, Oral Literature and. Their latest project, the Baraka sessions was named best vocal jazz album by NPR, in two thousand Nineteen randoms latest collection two, eight, nine, one to eight was published by the University of Kentucky Press in Fall Two thousand twenty Dr Houghton is a professor of English at the University of new haven. His next memoir deadweight is latest to be published in two thousand, twenty one. Let's get into this amazing interview with Ran Award and who will start us off with poem. Two, eight, nine, one, two, eight, subway chronicles one. Flashback to the sale. The last stop is also a beginning point on the C. At one, sixty, eight fortress heart catches my eye before we depart against the reflecting the unsigned as where tiles parochial last in a box from sale we alone the man in our of no significance until he exits the grinding wheels pull away from one fifty fifth, a ghost compartment. Now analogous to time spitting solitary I occupied the same newt hush when white boy made his living shadow in a split second on the cold concrete bringing to view faces pressed inside between glass the after sound resonate loud year after year whiteboard die from you pursue. Dear John Appearing went to. A person is reading the essential Etheridge Knight on the train today no one reads and we continue swab in noise. What a great launch into that chronicle series. Thank some. Kind of figure out a way, and I'm always interested in train travel subway in train is very interesting modes of meditation creatively. No it just something about that that always enjoyed and I used to commute from from Harlison to new haven. So one of the things would that was sort of occupy my time a little bit less what a guy used to that but but any in now, of course in New York is always something you know the train slowed means by right you know that became sort of some of the impetus because some of these most of these were sued thought out about in some kind of way on the subway Congratulations also on your The fashion that I wanna ask it's like, hi, how are you feeling about being in the world? Well, I feel good about it I think my last book was twenty thirteen in. So some time between poetry projects ahead of memoir between there and some other things obviously but I'm. Excited for this project for a couple of years now in today anticipation of coming out and then having the book the book launch last night with the Brooklyn Historical Society in to have it. Situated. The panel in a suit of action to discuss the things that I'm trying to amplify terms of the criminal justice system and the prison industrial complex and the. Language that we use around that and other things it was it was great and so I feel good about it and happy for debris in the world, and we do what we do as poets, and so that's part of the thing of I wrote the book those phones right or I like to see in the world. Now it's time to get busy. You got what's next. So well, we like to ask all of our guests to kind of situated by telling us what is moving you as a writer as a poet in the world or as a person in the world I mean. Just perhaps complicated in a way I think I'm always move by different things try to keep must have gone in different areas most recently like I said, I've been into the music thing in a section of of jazz experimental music, Garden have. You WanNa, put that which is can be complicated win self but working with especially jazz musicians in the way that the sort of always looking for another way to of tell the narrative of the sound. Has Really. I, think impacted my work in a lot of ways. So that's been moved me in obviously social climate was happening nationally. When I say move me is the people getting out there sort of actively you know. Saying how they feel? In and all of that you know that's sort of been. Something I've been secretly wanting to see for a long time so I'm you know good mocks so much of a negative is happening so That's moving me also moved by pros more. So now like I'm interested in you know fiction writers in sorted constructor novels as someone who wrote works in the area creed enough fiction attend the lean toward fiction is. more. So than deny fiction although I do fiction writers tend to move me. Pass them. Presents. What is the drowsy more toward fiction and nonfiction? The sort of the images mythical nature in in how can one recreate that but then non fiction which is sorta interesting to me. So a lot of Tony Morrison, actually because she's a huge influence on how I approach not fiction is sort of magical realist aspect in Israel or is that think blends into prove nonfiction in terms of poetry the influence of an Rogerson probably H- usual workers well. We'll put some always feeling whatever is right. I ask you more about the jazz and music projects that you've been involved with what is what kind of work is I? What does that? What does that look like? Part of a larger project called Heroes Gang leaders in Phnom take on name from a short story by Ameer Baraka, which was heroes a gang leaders on. But what D- The next group is when we attack try to do is like blend literary text with with with with music and and so we see America Book Award for Literature Was it two years ago for one about our projects, and then we've had a chance to sort of. In Europe, we did Berlin Netherlands. Poland. End. So s the part to me this in the morning anything on this. Interesting. When we get a chance to travel and we're able to sort of reach audiences that we probably never could reach. Is that Baldwin thing right I mean you kind of go over there. You realize the reach of the words right? Because I think so much wouldn't get caught in our own context as far as what worrying about. Yeah. Just American context of like being a writer is and you go over there like it is transformative. As, to the the aspect of even being an American Americanism shows immediately the Because you don't realize it. I didn't know I was. Somewhere else I just thought I was black. I is it comes out and so like all coming from this America privilege I've really don't even have. So that becomes interesting way in which the slow reflection of our own expectations but it was it was thing to me. I think it was really experienced but that's sort of the next for me has been very inspirational in terms of the creative stuff until when I come to the page because they hate to do the same thing twice the other in the in the. Azman. Musicians. In, either one of their whole. Way Base they hold you know professional career is like the experimentation. So it forces me step outside of myself sometimes in really think about what it is I'm trying to do creatively Mo work. Yeah. I was GonNa say it seems like you identify with that. This I kinda constant search for how can I sound original when I used to it. Yeah and I think part of it originates from even when I was coming into trying to be a writer and think about what that needs. Always, understood, do in some ways that people will try to put me in the context of being this guy from prison, right? Have always understood that in survive always tried to what I know of a writer I I happen to have been concentrated been in done something. You cannot escape the history of us. You know decimation quote, black five roots in. So the whole reason I got into to riding with idea to be able to explore different things and I think this is only part of that whole journey. It has to be the journey that I enjoy being on if I'M GONNA be on that jury, and so because my other life taught me that I was in that journey for other things of his self gratification in in a way that was fulfilling, it was more monetary trying to be part of the capitalist machine this little support. In terms of their, we have to slaughter by for that money in in our league in an eleven and existence and I got caught up and all that. When you say that you're a writer, I, can you say a little more about what you mean? Well, I guess I mean a writer artists creative minds being I because. When I chose to sort of explore this I decide that's that's what I was Gonna put I in my life that's what I mean by that This way doesn't really make says if you look at it because how you gonna eat are you going what are you GonNa do I when I chose this life, I've been to prison in asset values I don't know how will you live my life and I'm will be Created man of you can out. So I had to be all in I wasn't going to be in it. I mean, I guess I'm trying to cheat you late life for me in life I did a lot of things in the search they're trying to make money in China live trying to be part of whatever it is, and all of those things did make me happy. This. Made me happy. So I'm going to be there first. Whatever is so whatever happens after you know like I tell people all the time for. Action is not a prison. So I'm always I'm playing with house money. You know like I'm glad to be. I'm always thankful for whatever you know. I'm able to slow to get out into the wilderness even sort of make happen because eighteen years going to start this journey you told me that I was going to be able to write books you know have something published in. All of this kind of things I didn't know that was possible. But now all of these things that see in new shoot are possible. So the black he just wanted to that was the testimony brother. Was So tired and you know you gotta testify. But you know it's sort of something of us to talk about in It's the whole idea of it. I. Don't know Seo. imports was Let's say killing the I in prison. I understand the idea being one coming from that existence in having disordered produced the image so people can understand that. Okay. Yes. You could do this with other part of me is that part of meals like but that's not who I am really in. So for the sake of that, sometimes you know we have to make the decision decisions. I if I'M GONNA be advocate in this I got to say this because it's not a whole lot of walking around in this in this arena doing kind of thing, and so that is important. So I get that. When you say like the thing that you have to do in order to do this work D-? Mean like narrating your time in prison or talk talk you. You're going to go to juvenile detention centers detention centers, talking to you young accused and people about you know my experiences. That's what I mean by that I mean not it's you know from going to talk until like two hundred kids in Juvie. I got some fellows in they the exciting I give them my life to 'cause I thing you'd is you have to have trust. And if they don't trust you, then they're going to you up and so they can smell that and so I, have to give them a little bit of that passed. So I can always really mean understand that this is consequence based here that there you will face consequences in ways in which you you didn't think in trying to get out of that system is a nightmare. But there is hope and that's what I mean by that Phnom and I knew for me you know when I was on inside the bills who had who will come in had that experience and has used something with those tuned in more because identified with them in the identified with me in the way that that's experienced base, you can't simulate that So you embrace these you have to talk about these things. You also rider like also resistant boxed in. By, this label of prison poet or at. We fight are labels. We are boxing select in order to be ourselves, and like represent our people but also not be the admitted by that. You know. Yeah. Because that question also enters the work right? The I is sort of all kinds of bottles. Right? We got the iron brackets. We got the lower case we've got the cell phone brackets. We number the title but right like like it seems like you answered that frustration with craft. So I guess I'm wondering when did that extreme tussle with the Self or I? Guess it not even tussle it's like blurring denial acceptance. There's a lot of things going on with the Self in this collection and I guess winded that. How did it manifest in this way? How did we get here to these like six? Five six representations of who I like what are you doing with the I and the self in this book obviously is not. Exactly No No. No I mean, well, first of all, I, I've been using lower case is says my second book and then anytime I'm probably used the large case bracket is probably a collective I is so if I'm using lower case is me in this collection I don't use it that much. So is really a collective is in there's a collective us which could be conceived as the collective prison experience, the collective black experience, the tins on the context of the poem in the bracket itself. Even. Though it's in brackets. individualize this thing this always searching for yourself. So that's sort of why bring attention to that and then the periods important to meet to between the owners and the butts in next stop and start that influenced comes from the poet Stephen Jonas to Boston poet who's effort thing is probably one of the most fascinating poets I love Knack Way, he has these sort of. Issues for the air on and just all sound in its composition that to me is almost like Janse. So right there you go. Exactly a math a little bit of that in our standard of the show. So there's a lot winner. Yeah. Oh, there's this line that I wrote down the other about where you say. Does Not that poem nor either poet told Your hand and I was curious about what it means to hold the reader's hander or what it means to reject that. Will. Actually I meant you know to be a smile because I figure I just got his question last night really okay. It's not. It's not intended even demeaning thing that I think sometimes won't. If you notice the porn star south with this whole images. You know flowery thing in about Oh we're going to talk about prison in this beautiful way. You can just feel good about yourself and that's going to be this poem. No, this is not the Paul and I'm not going be the because I'm GonNa, give it to you. So that's my accent. So, like I'm you know we're not playing around with none of this stuff and you know I can do all that. But then this is what we add with this too. So it's almost the idea of I hate to use this analogy because. She would probably kill me. She was still alive with if you look at Willingham Brooks's To how she sort of like goes through this whole aesthetic journey just to show Western established, he can do it and then Fu. Time. But no but that's really sort of trying to do with that. And I think sometimes we get sort of caught up in. Be Somewhere. We're talking about hard truths and people want to you the sort of sugar coat them in a certain way in which is easier for them to sue the digest and you know just like I said one of those plumes about okay. He slit his wrist meanest little slugging risen. There are no allegories have behind. That's what I'm getting at with that in the easing is sometimes of how we have to have narrative something that he's gotta get it You gotta get. Just like nationally retired talking, we gotta get it. We don't want to like all of this language and stuff we want action one in now you know. So as trying to do both of those things that same time. Yeah. The reminds me of the other line that I wrote down I think it's the beginning of another poem where you say nothing symbolic. Okay. Dark stark cages cage which is such a like bold move for a poet. To say nothing symbolic like the. Myself for, even get started. But I think I was the only interest. Wait until the poll. Up I'm looking at original constructions of the problem. I, don't think that was the beginning line to be honest that was the best way to come into that. So as the poet thinking about crab part of it yet, you have to give yourself. Some Canalis to go down the road that I went down in the form. So it's interesting to hear you talk about that as the poke as the reader right and as a reader who has never been incarcerated and. To me what those choices did I think you do have to sometimes create like an inescapable condition for your reader right I. Think I think that's what you're talking about these topics right were like you can't allow your reader to escape into the softness of metaphor right? That's what you're saying. Right? There is no sort of like imaginative route to sort of like protect yourself. And I think that's what the poems has to do these problems especially in that First Section, those first two sections specially like. We're talking about like poems like that are like embracing the smell of Shit in the air we're talking about poems where like shit is happening in the it can't like I. Felt my own poems got like you'd always I hey. The. Mother trees right now. I. Always say going back to when I was at the Gwendolyn Brooks Conference one year nothing Ameer Baraka was there and he was like Oh no this was. The second furious flower James Madison Than Him with something he was like it said something about could be right now. About by my hand melon. With people I had done. Something like that. So I've always kept at heart in terms of when one has to see what what has to say sometimes, you know those are the things. And I think as a poet to you have to do the work yourself into that courage to go down that road a little bit because I think we sometimes you no doubt some of the things that we do what they end up being. Okay. So that's I. Think it's a good day. Oh Man but is it is it really does metaphor hallways get in the way? No I don't think it does I I and I think there's a metaphor in here obviously Michelle So I think sometimes we Get to say a plane now think about it. I'm probably even more reacting to some of the work that I do. in other areas within you know incarceration in that thing right in sometimes having to make it plain and making have to. Talk about some difficult troops or some difficult things especially with students on the classes I teach and all that counts stuff doing advocacy work people want to do advocacy in the Nice Neat Way And sometimes you you gotta get your hands dirty little bit and you have to not saying both can't talk to each other. Both Gay Dude is you know work together that's not what I'm saying I'm just saying sometimes you have to go down that road. And maybe this is the fourth book feel. Confident go down the road in their way that thinks something like I say go back to the competence of the writer in what they're doing This is your fourth book of poems is that True Your fourth? Election Fifth. Book of Y'All. Yeah. Right. Yeah as as. Writers. We always go back to the same kind of topics or stories are like things that drive our work overall. But are there were the new things that you learned about those old stories in this in the process of writing this book well to be honest with you these. New. Stories. Counter in 'cause I didn't necessarily write about incarceration him upon my first look is really about is persona. Is. Historical look and my family between Nineteen, twelve and nineteen, seventy two. In the second one is more. So my time on in the streets to DC this is never section in Lingua Franca on prison, but that was it, and then pitch dark wasn't anything about incarceration. So I addressed a lot of that in my memoir Hook in. So coming out of Hook, I felt more confident about talking about that experience reporting. So it was it was only until I. Did memoir that I really really was like I understood that I got to go back to this and really address it. I felt ready now. I I you know I felt like I could do experience justice. What was it about the pros that made that possible? I think it was part of the the father. Forgive me section which talks about. You know my sentence. I was you know I was sentenced to like a bunch of time ten Maryland and five backup in Virginia? I go to back to Montgomery County Maryland where I was originally sentenced. I had most of reconsideration hearing and My dad show Biz, my only character witness and after the DA probably by the thirty minute summation about how terrible I was a person and how I had no chance and rehabilitation or and had never made any positive contribution to society. He just like we see no reason why Mr Horn should. Be Louder prison. He should go back to Hagerstown in out a sentence. And so my father was a character witness in. So he got up and held in talk before the court many hail court for like another thirty minutes. And, he wanted him guys from Birmingham Alabama born in Nineteen thirty two been in he proud guy. He's educator Utah School Parker Has Birmingham for like. Thirty some years, and so he's a proud guy and you know he he only asking about it for nothing. You know that just how you roll. But he got up and he talked about me from the time was born man I've talked about all of the promise that I had all of the things that I could do and I had a foundation. He said that you know family behind me but this wasn't who I was and if you just give me this one chance and then he started knees start crime a right. and. So I'm crying I'm gone. Malaria cries she done nothing but she cried. Everybody in the back in the gallery crying other words even the Black Disney hail swipe right. Journey because why not face? A see grandma she led me on prisoner day to man in. So the bailiff brought me back in the back and he was like man I've been sitting in with that. Jeff. Thirty years she's never given anybody a break you lucky hail I've never seen it considered as a blessing to not combat back. In. So I went down to some dad man, and then after we have craft were Miller customer from making cry. And So. What I'm getting at that was sort of like the nexus of my journey I made the choices myself. I can't blame nobody but myself like you know we can. We can bring systemic stuff in there. But I'm saying is I needed to know that it wasn't them. In so I could write about that until I addressed it in Hook and that just opened up. Once I figured that out the way for me to go forward and talk about things a little bit more. I couldn't write about until did justice. To adequately explain like what happened that day 'cause it was magic. And you talk about the magical realism minutes of this is is as is a scene there where you I'm trying to like you know close my ears and I keep hearing the sound and his leg all goes back to the whole Sunday Blues, thing Emma in inside his banging on the piano vowed, and then all the sound of creative you know James Baldwin Sonny's Blues Right. So they SORTA gives you insight into how love to sort of bring in there but getting back to the narrative. SORTA Mason came together. So I just took the time to work on that. This book is coming out what twenty years removed from your time. In prison I mean. It seems like a good reminder to anybody who feels like Oh why can't I write about the thing that happened to me last year or like the thing that happened that's on right now you know that sometimes it takes time. No. And and I wanted to explore other things. Going journey, limitless cast my wide in that just go to obvious route NAM. That would have been obvious route for me I. Guess I've always been that way. You know my mom a preemie. So I I could never wait on anything with no for me Kinda mother says it seems like also to me maybe that the sort of getting it out in in what was like your first nonfiction piece right it out there allowed you may be with this collection to come back to it and do what you do upon which is a little bit more removed from the self may be right in the space of persona and sort of like exploring bike. Collective histories and stuff like those like right like you said, get it out. Do It justice right? You're right now I'm free to play with IT SORTA way. Yeah I came. Know thank you. Appreciate. That makes sense and that really is the intent of it. You know like when you free yourself of that and you really do get it out it gives you like this sort of freedom working those constructions and be confident about okay. I'm good way. So if you can't write about it yet y'all make memoir I. Bet You go. About it All about five years you. We have reached the point and I show it is time to play some. Game First game is called Bass Punch or way. What's the other name sort of game for any or bag speed bag or some other shit? We need to have a few less names so this game, but we're going to do. Is We are going to give you ten categories of which you can decide to give us the best or the worst of these categories and you are going to answer for us. So it'd be like stuff like you know like it won't be this past best Disney character you know or. Hottest Stanza. Ever. That's a hard one. What's the Best Stanza in poetry? Really really hard question for later are you ready to play this game star? Well No, but I'm ready. We're GONNA figure out. Do you want to say the best of things or the worst of things I don't know my wife says most black clouds. Let's go worse. Okay. I. have. Let's. Let's start off with this outside us off for any first off out of the done a worse yet. So I'm so excited I worst word to use in a poem. worst sandwich. Tomato. I'm sorry I forgot that. I'M GONNA, sound manning's tomato soup. And I hate him I hate I do to. Alert Grandma why this is the one that summer ever Over God I love his. Worst. Animal. Worst. Thing about Derek hough. His difference. Farrah's. Worst Character Toni Morrison novel. Oh. Maybe, a moral question. WHO The worst care. And the Tony Morrison Noble. Man. Slave owner for the guys who own brothers in Ohio and beloved. was his name. I know what you're talking about I can't think of his name right now but he was particularly evil out of all the white demand and. I can't remember his name. So I give you the book in its in the location. So you're. Worth Pasta Sharp. Kinney. Oh. I feel tender about that. This is favorite so I. Just need. We never got I never understood the shape of that 'cause I I didn't grow up with that so. Love it. Worse place to read a book. Place read a book is times where that's is the worst place to be. Worst worst jazz musician worked better when I was best but worst jazz musician. Debussy Handy. Okay. I don't know who that is but. The Lao shots. So He The movement a little bit. So I'm GonNA, throw him. I'M GONNA put him on the bus. Although he he was you know he has some. Last few questions come in worst president. Donald Trump. Yeah, okay, and then the last one will be worst thing you ever saw on the subway. Okay. Nikki. Man. A bottle. Of Water. Giving them. A bad Oh. I know. I. Like signed me up there I mean, the the the silver lining us that he did have a concept of how to try to get clean. So I mean I have to leave him props. Andre we go, but it still was not a good vision. Chicer-. That sounds like a VIP subway experienced. Pay Extra. Only. Rains and no one was reading a book that day. Thank you for playing. Games. Thank you. That was great. That was great. I was learned Timothy. Group so Perfect. Should we play for one more. Okay. Coup mortgage warmer go. Okay. So now we're going to play a game called this versus that where we put two things in competition with each other. And make them get into physical brawl and then you tell us which one will win in a fight. So for this edition of this versus that we have poetry verses Jazz if poetry and Jazz. We're GONNA fight who would win. A. Thank you to be a toe to toe knockdown thrilling. Miller would have to go fifteen rounds because in one corner you're GonNa have jazz and you're gonna be influenced by some degrees like Davis art blatantly in the jazz messages and so they wanna be trying to. Vary this sound and sort of beat you up with different narrative. Then you're going to have the arsenal to pull going to be off with narrative experimental and understand live breaking hit you in the head with stands that sorta ring with a little region derived in the end I, got to give it to people in a corner poetry for their dedication and resistance the beach you down with the message and the jazz people are GonNa have to take the whooping if only I and this do this thing together. Wow. I promise you that straight up I wouldn't drink in anything. Oh Man. I saw was like an audio book. So, when you say the two million, we say our the new house wanted the juxtaposed. Phone that we go. Crazy well. Mad though. was. Amazing. Now. Right for team jazz I gotTa say has as as Abu Disagree with this fight I think jazz got cheated at the cost. Played it till the skills, their way and if I was. Yeah. So you know I'm I'm a friendly poet sometimes. Actually always your hand if I have to. Thank you so much aspect you all this you appreciate it so much. Frantic. Stanton. Thank you. Thank you in. Great. Would you do the honor of closing us out with one more poem? A. Two Eight, nine, one to eight poet in New York as in. To a nine, one, two, eight, two protagonists. Exiting darkness begins the process by which, of course, I dissolve them opaque and a train was sling by the last one to starboard against played glass bottle the cheek then oblique as in press ever-so-slightly dumbed the night vibrant up townfolk trapped in a maze of boundaries in books. The soul of black folk a so think our protagonists no matter total would recuse himself from living it begins dream is manifest destiny. There is departure arrival trapped in a possible construct. So the construct walks up right in search of freedom everywhere a historical fallacy willing the body say skin construction is black deepening the scenes projection this call to eight nine, one to eight human. I'm so grateful for that I'm on that and also I would say for the does Sam see and Randa without a hat usually a great hat on. Leslie he delivered. hatless vulnerable it amazing I. Love. The put on though was like You know I think the dissonance in the conversation right between like trying to resist this label of like being the prison poet right but also like this is first time writing about that in poetry right and what also an amazing you mentioned an interview Friday. But what an amazing grace that like it can take forever and we do. It when it's the right time to get to something that maybe feels like we're supposed to write about you know it arrives sue US whenever it's supposed to yeah I mean we've talked before on the show about the kind of impetus put on poets to respond to things that are happening like right away like especially kind of like big shared national crises, global crises. And how sometimes that's possible and it's just like it takes so much longer than you know the span of a new cycle to really be able to understand you know let alone like years of healing from things whether personal or bigger than that. There's something does this conversation brings to mind for you like things that you will be able to write about like in a few years but not right now or like something that took a really long time to get to. I mean I guess in the immediate feel like what's happened in Minneapolis the year it was easier to write about it in pros and I don't think poems about it will really happen for awhile So interesting I've rattled that way. I mean that's why I propose that to him was because I think for me there's so many things to like balance in a poem that I want to pay attention to that link in order to just kind caracal what's happening and how like that sort of getting it right that he was talking about I think for me sometimes what's difficult that happens in pros and I Think to like my like lifelong thing. I. Think to talk about like my parents and like a meaningful and truthful and like flush that way I think is going GonNa take time and I think maybe to might might require some like pros which I think is maybe familiar because reminded of like the diary of the compassion all that before I get to the poems about it the beautiful thing about being a writers at the more I live the more I realized that like their stuff in my past waiting for me now that that wasn't waiting for me before that I've only now arrived at those tools you know. Well, how about for you? What are you? What do you see yourself getting maybe day you know? The first answer that came to mind was was this break up like heartbreak following the end of a relationship that was like a six year relationship There's like the right between like writing lots of poems when something happens and unlike writing poems that. Will. Ever be shared with anybody. You know the there's. Also, like when you were talking, it reminded me of them. The ways that my siblings don't really show very much my poems like I. Love My siblings very very dearly, and I think that I have exactly ever known up to this point at least like how to write about them and our relationships while still being able to kind of protect them. You know I feel like a little bit too protective of my siblings to write about them in poems, and so actually I think for me I don't know if I will be able to ever do it in pros actually because I think that feels like even more exposing because it's like so purse like a personal. Relationship in like somebody else's life at stake whereas yet. But maybe maybe it's true that once that happens then I'll be able to get to the deeper at the bone of the thing thing when it comes to talking about our relationship. But yeah, I don't know for now just like I feel too protective of them to write about them. Yeah. I think I in in a work that can sometimes as she to be so vulnerable in a way that sometimes can like snowball intellect nothing being sacred or off Gassing Syndrome right? that. Sort of ability and I think it took me a while to learn that that like it was okay for stuff to be off-limits. Yeah. Right. Right because then you get into the thing of like we this is like a thing that is deeply moving me like this is like the core of my being that like up like. So why am I am I like not reaching deep enough and like sometimes you just can't. It's okay to not go to like to the thing that is like most driving you right now you know. Life Long. You know there will be years or if as long. Let's get back to our ears folks and get out of here. Flat. Hey let's get back to twenty twenty. The cheerios way to end exit. Let's do it. Why not only good thing about twenty twenty is like you know there's less of it ahead of us than there is bond everyday less there's less twenty twenty. For and who this week Okay Yeah I, WanNa thank like astrologists in general you know what I mean. But like specifically is her name Susan Something Susan Mill Miller okay. There's a Susan there's a Susan out there. who does like really intense ones that are like don't sign a contract on the twelfth like do go on a date on the thirteenth like on the fourteenth you might have like short distance travel or whatever, and I just I just a shout out to the rigor in the thoroughness. That's why I, I, think. I am going to thank my mom four pressuring me she use my Hulu walkout and so she's been nagging me for a while to get stars because she wants to watch power. But because in because I finally gave in, I got to watch valley. That was a pretty good show. Thanks Mom got. Up. Out. So I could watch a really good show go watch valley. It's an amazing show. Everybody steals someone who'll watch just all the things that you have. Thank your mom for on this show. This is like a really particularly good one very specific. I love the specificity is very, very specific and I was so annoyed I was like this one mckee's on asking me like I don't WanNa pay eight extra dollars so she could watch power but then I was like, Ooh what's the show about strippers? God close the door or whatever Okay. We also. Shelby Noriega. From the Poetry Foundation. Thank you to our producer Daniel Kiplinger. To Pulse loudness and thank you to you offer continuing to listen to our little little guests. Wherever you're listening to our little low podcast. Make sure you like. Rate Subscribe, share. Tell Your Mama to. Your friend to the boss and make sure you follow us on twitter at the s the podcasts if you on the twitter's if you're on Instagram, don't follow standards there's nothing else you have no idea what we look like and with that y'all we are going to get on Outta. y'All stay stay stay blast make good risks. Make good donations have write good poems and don't be afraid to unlock certain things on your Hulu counts you never know where it may lead. By

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Part 2: Tony Black, Steve Haskin

Thoroughbred Racing Radio Network

1:42:39 hr | 1 year ago

Part 2: Tony Black, Steve Haskin

"I'm Tony Good Morning. That minus the belated Thanksgiving greetings. But yeah like you said we have the whole holiday and trying to a great time of year. I really enjoy Thanksgiving with the family. And you know I didn't go to the race track for I haven't been to the racetrack since of the twentieth. So I've been home one nineteen. I had a horse coming off the race track at the three quarter. Poke at Pula Wing Day and left me flat On my back and bruised some ribs and irritated some old break so I haven't gone to the tracks the not the twentieth the twentieth. But I'm in the healing process. We're doing good and it was gonNA get banged up. Might as well be doing holiday season and then you don't go to the track and enjoy the family even even more so and and you know what the Horse that through the wingding few days later ran and won. And it's it's funny. Yeah I landed on back not on my face with his name is dirt in my face. Just drop made but it should have been named dirt on my back. Because I landed on my back I got up. I knew I hurt my ribs. Pretty good and Danny Velazquez Randy Allen. What gracious individuals Danny gets me up off the ground and he says what the Hell you doing coming out in this weather and ran the allens brushing reopen? been pulling my pant leg down. I'm thinking man I've ever wrote for these guys and they have a tremendous amount of compassion and respect. But that's always crackers. Are they pick you up when in your when you fall down you know they might be your biggest competitors all throughout the year but when you hit the ground the first ones to pick you up so my my thoughts go out to Randy Allen and Danny last. I thought that was really nice. You guys really guys. Well that is nice and I I I'm hearing this for the first time that that you had a bit of a spill so Taking me by surprise I you know I've Jackson use go in the ground and we don't talk about it a whole lot and at times it becomes an embarrassment not not a a traumatic experience. Jesus son of a gun got me off coming out. The gap wasn't even the track coming out the gap. It needs to be done on the racetrack. Secretion coming out. The gap of Ain't no cushion the grounds of Barnes that he belongs to twenty five and he just brands back at the barn and look look back like as if to say a dummy. You didn't say what I am rather like a sharp pain in my side and and I'm thinking and broke some lives or even just as bad as a separate that soft tissue that hold together. That's what I did. They ran and got a cat scan and the doctor gave me the cat scan looked at me. He says multiple plates did we did it from the waist up is that you got multiple plates multiple screws and you've got Fractured Vertebrae rates. That have just looked like the irritated. -tated probably from this incident. I said that doesn't hurt. None of that stuff. Her to draw healed up. What hurts is my red? Says if that's that's all that hurts with all this metal in screws and you real good night backing the I came back to have you stay and look as fitted you look with all this medal and screws and all these old broken set fractures. I said that I take that for granted. That's what jocks do when they arrived all these years. That's what they do these things you know. We don't try to get them. They just kind of come along with the profession screws plates and busted bonds. You're like the Tin Man. It's not for me. I've been show. I missed it a few days. I think the last day I listened to it there was a they were talking about the cancellation from the jockeys. Yeah and and that's always a controversial situation of course when you're right in the Middle Annex states you know you wind up having to make these decisions No and sometimes of course trainers and course sometimes are really affected negatively by them. And sometimes you say to yourself well they might be affected negatively by this decision in today. And maybe it's a error on the side of caution but at least it was made in joppy's to do things like that at times. You know at times it's easier swallow that to than it is to go out there and have a mishap. Possibly that could have been avoided. But but you know and then you know we think about the situation that occurred in California with all the you know the the breakdowns uh-huh and everything like that. And I need adverse weather conditions that they have out there and you know when you think of it that way you think. Jeez I wonder I wonder if some of the riders out there if they would have gotten together they might have been able to avoid some of those mishaps and made these top decisions that data very controversial. They actually affect your business as a jockey in a negative way if your neighbor is one of the big mouth that that do this type of thing because you you make sometimes air on the side of caution and sometimes it's the right decision But sometimes it's an easier pill to swallow that I they said than it is to have something some inventiveness but you know the other things. I don't know when you're faced with adverse unusual weather conditions and your job that's been riding in California your whole career and and you've maybe maybe haven't been exposed to those conditions sometimes you you don't know what to do and you say we'll get through it. Will you right in the east coast mid Atlantic states. You're exposed to every weather condition every track condition. That is ever going to exist at any time so you become pretty Proficient proficient in making these decisions and you also become a person that understand the change whether you know tracking be bad in the morning. The Sun comes out it can change dramatically in the afternoon. You know and you'll also get coming aware of the conditions of the racetrack. where it's been sealed and sealed imploded? I it's not always gone with high compression plate you can flow the racetrack and it can be just flat. It can also be floated to where it's compressed and hard and you know. And maybe maybe the riders out there Ryan in California on you would have had a different opinion of the race if they had a lot of experience with that type of weather condition that they were dealt the accessible now no rain and everything and then everything else that that into that Thin Nita fiasco but you know you don't know you don't know what the jocks was like. Yeah you know I know Mike Smith. He's been out there quite a while and a lot of times you say well. He started when he goes. Yeah but you know. He wasn't here. The bulk of his career never other people that are out there that may be started on these close but they weren't here the bulk of their career and they may be didn't understand the different changes in racetracks because of adverse eric rather condition that they'd never been dealt with California that kind but it's a different it it the the equation the equation there Is is unusual unusual. Just because of potential underlying you know underlying elements and in terms of creating creating eating vulnerabilities or exploiting vulnerabilities in horses. I mean depending on what transpired with the ceiling the track and and how hard the track was underneath. So it's not as if it's not as if th riders going out there on a day to day basis. We're going to immediately say detracts. No good I mean there. There were people that were expressing were expressing concern about about the track and in and spots on the track. And you know that that's a that's nationwide that you know that that's wherever there's you know wherever there's any kind of drag doesn't even have to be limited to dirt dirt there's bad spots that That you get in on grass as well but I mean you do bring up Tony A point that that you can address and explain to people what goes on in that room and what are the conditions and even if you just limit this to the North Eastern track experience and winter track and even even during summers when we get heavy rains. And and guys'll come back and say you know the first turn is washing out. I mean explain what and you also did a nice job kind of hinting at about clubhouse house lawyers as they say in in baseball you know guys that are our problems In in terms of you know creating creating negatively negatively but it it talked about how those decisions are made and when guys come back you know after races when freezing rain is setting in or sleet and maybe the track Gastonia freeze and clump explain. How the discussion unfolds? Well Jacksonville mentalities have changed over the years because I remember when I was a kid growing up been raised on the east coast in the wintertime. And we raise the liberty bell drags out where you know. Do purpose tracks you know changed changed over from trotting tracks to to to Flat tracks and You were very reluctant in seventy sixty seventy eighty even cancel cuts the show. It was the only show was the live show. That wasn't other simulcasting. Of course Jackson's have changed because the live show isn't the only show and their simulcast and sports betting and everything else that goes on at racetracks casino. So the live show. Isn't the most important thing that generates revenue for racetrack anymore. But what happens in the jocks room is jobs. Don't get elected elected most of the time as being spokes Jackson. It's usually some guy got enough balls to stick his neck out and put safety above of his business and in the years over the years you know years ago. Always the elite riders when it was a Walter Blooms and Yeah the writers of that caliber. That were very well respected. Their opinion was respected. You know there's the the rider is that they want a lot of raises. They wrote a lot of races and the junction individuals in the Johnson. Really totally respected their opinion So they weren't elected as the JOCSON spokesman it was Kinda just something that they stood up and said You know what I'm GonNa. I'm going to be here. I ride the entire. I've seen this racetrack over the years. And and I'm going to express my opinion so you go rider. Arrays you ride a horse. That doesn't seem to handle the race track. You see some adverse conditions out that. There's some washout spots stop spot. You know or or track has been floated to the point where it's concrete you know and you might come back and try to say listen guys. What do you think of the racetrack? You know Did you see what the poll the the room washed out. Soft spot going into the first turn. It's like a paved road. So the first thing you wind up doing As a jockey rat you guys together you also inform the stores that were having a problem with the race right. But we're going to call the track superintendent in my day it was you know whoever was practising for ten Roy Smith Of course was one of the tracks superintendents that we had great communication with and he taught a lot of writers. You know communicate with me see if I can eliminate the situation or a live alleviate. The problem that you're citing he would he would actually say you know watching the track back from the or else watching it. From the maintenance shed is a lot different and I know. There's many writers up there with qualified opinions. You say a problem to me. Give me give me some time before you can't so you know another race. Give me some time to see if I go out there and address the issue and maybe changed the situation to where it's acceptable and that's where racetrack superintendent. Ann Anjar have to have an ongoing relationship a good communication because it you don't you jump to the conclusion man tracks bad he can't do nothin' open and screw it. We're canceling and once you get them all walking out the door you never get him walking back yet jockeys. Yeah so I it's a it's a process and it's a process that should be followed birth. Notify people that there is a problem with the racetrack. ignificant trainer that wrote for that particular race. They listen. Listen you know Joe Blow you know you. We went into the first turn this song. Unlike the fall on his head were at four washed out spot. They gotTa do something to act as as you because you can't keep running through this meth all day long or just plain and simple they better open this track up. It's like a pay grow when it comes this field race tracks. I can't say it enough out. It's not always compressed to sometimes it's just flat with the water or hit the surface and run off because it's flat and there's there's no Howard marks to keep the wood on the track and it runs off you know in a lot of times Do close track early in the morning when this weather starts to come on and flatten it out so the wood will run off but also you need a good crown of Good Bank of Racetrack. You need good drainage you know to take and handle that water but every retirement track is flat doesn't mean it compressed to to the point of being like a cement pay grown it can just be flat. Those plates that compressed the can and compress the race track or hydraulically operated to how much pressure they can put on them to cause of floated racetrack to become extremely only hard for just to become flat At the situation in California we had you know like I said it might have been jockeys inexperienced and didn't know what they were looking at. It could have been the Assistant the assistant track superintendent. Who took over Dennis? Moore's job the track superintendent who had been inaugu analysts but he wasn't there and assistant to go back maybe he was over doing the compression and the floating billion reasons. Why things like that transpire? And it's not always because oh you got an overall bed raise pragman no drainage or we need synthetic tracks the people that are behind synthetic crack raccoons. They all see. This doesn't happen on synthetic crack all be as if a highly stressful athletic event. You're going to have shopping around and you're GonNa get hurt and the best way. Yeah I can put it to anybody. It's not a pristine business of of a that doesn't Include highly stressful athletic athletic event. For Horse and jockey there's going to be injuries in any sport and I always hate these people that say well you make them run it. Don't make them run. You Never Watch these. He's towards the train idiot. These sources say you can't stop them from running. So who the hell are you to tell me. I make them run. I've been on hundreds of thousands of worth thirty thirty four thousand races and I'm on my pedestal right now and it and I know what makes horses run. Its cord instinct is bred into your. You're half the time trying to stop them from running off with you're not making them run and they say is don't have choice and people get hurt in a a human athletic events were. They don't have a choice. Either you get in a multi million dollar contract and you're not performing and you're going to have bill coming out your ass. You don't have avenue troy you better go out there and perform you better. Go Get your knee and Jack that you'd better go get your therapy figure out that you form as a human at the. Don't tell me. Human athletes have a choice their financial situation. They're kind of they're obligated. They're obligated yeah. There ain't no choice you know unless the guy just can't walk and he's absolutely busted up and just can't even perform to any level he's gone out there and warming it's not he's got a choice. The choice was made for him by track. I mean by team owners by his financial situation by his wife running up the credit card to help out with that heart assholes. Never tell me what a horse wants to do what I make them do so sick of it. Now you're no not at all I it. We're we're coming to the point where some people are are are and I called for this months ago in terms of just pushing back and instead of saying Oh we were doing every of course. We're doing everything we can. We've always done all weekend. And the the suggestions of otherwise just laughable and there comes a point where you say I I mean yes you've got You got certain people answer to given be given political climate and so forth but It it. It's a little. It's a little ridiculous to a certain degree You know people that have no idea what they're looking at are talking about Ah trying to dictate to an industry. It makes no sense You know you said something and and I got an immediate as part of the explanation the nation Tony about how these decisions get made and affecting Changes whether it whether it's auto race day or not. It doesn't doesn't have to be this. This is not limited just to race day deciding and the the communication part is essential and had there. There's a multi layered as there is with everything in this area the complexity but there's multi layers. He's here. There's the racing office there's the horsemen. There's the exercise riders in the afternoon riders everybody interacting together track management. And when you get vacuums anywhere along the way that you know between between all the layers and everything that that intertwines that's when you get the ball dropped and and that's where you you know a lot of times when they research spikes and incidents invariably you know there was. There was a lack of communication being effectively executed. And so that that part is really a point. Well made by you you. Yeah Yeah you know and and it was learned over the years. It didn't happen overnight at one race but I do take my hat off. Some Donovan drag superintendents. You know. There's so many of them were so qualified in this area. That's good racetrack superintendents in Jersey Pennsylvania. You you know in New York and these guys one of the things that I think helped them in doing. Their job was communication communication with of course horsemen close communication with jockeys. The communication with jockeys is little bit different than communication with horsemen. 'cause you know trainers watching sources train. He's got it all those he's got you know different people. He's trying to satisfy and at times training. You know they don't feel what you feel when you're on that track as has a jockey getting that horse around there and exercise people in the morning and good feedback between the exercise personnel. And of course you have to put people in a category. You know you you too if they this this guy says something you better you know. Take you and pay attention to what he's saying Ryan. It's an exercise boy. You know it's another jock and of course you're going to the chronic complainers bickers you know but also have have any kind of industry the guy that negative about everything you know it all know if they're saying oh good and then you got the guy you know. That goes out there with an honest honest effort every time to try it make the game go on and then he comes back in his listening is track is and it isn't because something's wrong yeah flattens wrong and Yeah Yeah. I've been on too many times. And it'll be the guy that you know is respected in the doctrine by his fellow riders it's like a fierce competitors but when it comes to say the we we tend to be on the same page time. It's and summarize. Listen I've left the jocks room and the next day I've come back you know and of course I tell any writer listening more blames about it. I'm we don't take the heat you know it's GonNa cost you business. 'cause I'm GonNa Point of Mike. This was over the years you know fifteen years ago twenty years. I'm a born in my business where I love the business and I'll recover from any negative situations you trying to get started. Just say black told US blocked oldest last. HOLD DOWN EH racetrack. We really you black. We could run these races and I would say a few choice words. You know that don't want to say on the air but it out you know and and I had some people that you know really held it against me but you know what if you're out there and you're expressing an honest opinion and isn't dictated by dollars and sense and my next horse that I'm going to ride or I wanNA ride this guy. And and they learned to understand you know what he expressed his opinion. It's honest it's never might be controversy. Oh but it's never self serving you know it's not a self serving opinion and he just happened to stay the business even after all this controversy or pinions that is expressed after all these days that we've lost and we've had winters where man we've lost tons of today's parks or different racetracks That I've read that and Well at least expressing it honest opinion. And maybe he's saving us the inevitable that you know. Maybe the an air on the side of caution. Or maybe saving us from from Carton one of these jocks off the race track that hit the ground or carton one of these off the racetrack. You know that shouldn't have broke down so get over it and No one likes people get on thinking business and I've been in it. You know like fifty years now wrote a lot of racist but Even before I started riding on a racetrack but What what eventually gets people over if you go out there and express an honest opinion and you show integrity Indian credibility and then you know really gets them over at your keep winning or you recover and win? You might go a little bit because they got a hard on for you but you recover and you're win and you're bounce back from the controversy. And then they learned to get respect. Well maybe he was right and if he wasn't he had everybody's well being horses and jockeys well being in mind. And that's what you have to key in one but I have one of those big mouths that got accused of being uh-huh cancel and Jock all the time I mean there's what one fifty nine eleven races. So maybe maybe save on kid from really hitting you absolutely absolutely And it certainly in this in this environment airing I mean not that it's airing but the the siding on the on the side of caution you know is gonNA is GonNa pay dividends long-term that that part You know you might you might rouse and then be be. I thought the other day from what I was hearing and I was not there so well. You know when you're not there you really can't say too much but it seemed like the conditions didn't you know didn't necessarily warrant Cancellation but the guys that are out there. You know it's there. It's there call Tony a couple of things before we wrap though I gotta ask you about a couple of horses and even though you haven't been out the last two weeks watching what's going on I see where Richie Vega is sending that that one horse down to Laurel Sir back in black and I. That's my stake there. They named that or a named me. They wanted to use my name and that name. I said you guys are kidding me. That's that's just something else they own us know. We wanted to put your name. Thanks a lot. And then the other Papas are is one that I got on every day and and He's training so good. I haven't been out there for two weeks. I'm GonNa tell you what he was one. You better get tight on when you coming on and off the racetrack play and feeling good. Couldn't ask for a horse to be more in good order. Then he was at least two weeks ago and I missed getting on certainly because college will girl. I love that you know even if you didn't fire well that time I don't know why but but And Papas or I liked that horse. In fact I even one on him. I guess the year before last I guess it was. I forget when I won but I want on him and I get on them every day. Right and that's what I miss now that I'm starting to heal up a little bit and feel better. I was ready to call Ritchie today and say I've been start coming out Monday and I lifted the weather is going to be like forty five. Fifty degrees Tuesday's compete forty five fifty. I might come out Monday night that pick but it is going to be like in thirty. I might not make it pop pop tomorrow. Actually Laurel runs tomorrow and then Sir back in black in the juvenile the Maryland juvenile on Saturday. I also WANNA ask and you mentioned Collegeville As it happens Carlisle Bell runs back tomorrow in similar similar spot state bred fillies and Mares Allowance and Ah Bell Bells Zip right by the COLLEGEVILLE. Even though even though Kendrick tried to try to I it was he was. He was trying to intimidate a little. Bit the top of the stretch when when when Veggie came by hi with Carlisle Watch the replay. He kind of Comes out to meet or a little bit and college bills got a couple of feet and and it's a little bigger than than Carlisle. Val but you know what what are your thoughts about spun to run Guerrero On Saturday you know what I remind hats off to you. Know he went to a controversial situation and and survived it and it turned find out to be not true situation that we even want to get in and talk about. But I'm so proud of him. He brought this horse around And the job he's done with this or is is in acquiring this force and train this worth you gotta root for you know it was considered just a claiming trainer. You know and Evacuees he was even out of the game or wasn't on track for a while and were recovery and and so deserving horse like this. I really liked that horse You you know a maximum security you gotta like that horse. I mean They're all hooking up. Weren't they in the Saturday. Yes that and I mean I route. It's hard for me to root for one guy and I think the world of a Carlos And I think the world of Jason Service you sound Saddled Adult Video Horse Mama's park when he was a valid in Jersey. You know in here. He's gotTa work like maximum security even though the controversial situation that came about with the With the Derby play 'em and broke my heart to get taken down but that source race in Yoga comment. It'll but when when when maximum security ran in Haskell I wasn't really impressed with him You know I want it but he he just didn't look like he really fired. Big Just beat horses. That weren't running as good as them and he wasn't running at that. So maybe he's GonNa come back really run in a little bit of time helps and and and he he put his A plus performance. But it's hard for me to pick a one over the other because I think the world both the guys that train them I think the world of both those sources sources and how can you fought spun to run after the last performance. I mean it's GonNa be a great race. Yeah what it's going to take of. What is a game to win that race? We'll see which ones on his Asia game looking forward Looking forward to Saturday it's It's terrific card at Akwa highlighted by the Mile Tony. This was tremendous great to catch up after several weeks off. And we'll make our way eight toward the end of the year and have some of those you know season ending kind of conversations over the next couple of weeks away. I`Ma we'll put the box away get on it and beat. You're you're but thanks for letting me back and I didn't even Like cut me off. I've never so the one and only Tony Black. Everybody can't be. Let's take a break bottom of the hour ninety ninety minutes in ninety two. Come Steve asking and we'll dive in to the PCP's on all these two year olds notably the rams and the futurity probably a little bit of the phillies too but WE'LL CATCH UP WITH STEVE ASKING and I've been saving the the final odds on the Derby Future Wager As well I've been keeping that over to the side of the desk 'cause I knew Steve might enjoy might incorporate some of those names In the conversation and I'm just wondering how many how many are running this week. Wrecking crew thousand words high-velocity and Oh door so four. Twenty percent of this field is running an annual door. Those that bought in you got him a thirty one. To one high velocity you got it. Forty Eighty two one thousand words at thirty five to one and wrecking crew eighty six to one. So the entire field of the futurity was in the future future wager and all of those prices are pretty attractive so somebody's going to have a futurity winner at no less than the thirty one to one. 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I know they'll be glad to see good old friends. Equine DOT ORG or call us at five to eight six three seventeen seventy now to the races with Steve Day on Sirius. XM radio once got CH wjr racist twenty minutes to the top of the hour. uh-huh Tony back was back after a timeout and He was he was on the muscle. Steve asking joining us. And this is always one of my favorite Favorite conversations on the calendar. Because I get to ask Steve how the tofurkey was recalled. He actually was Quite good cranberry sauce roll. Roll up slices a little bit. Can't beat it has has tofurkey TESCO further them gravy on put some uh ah some Turkey gravy on it has has it. Has It evolved has it. Has it improved over the years with with technology as these places like like other places actually have Turkey. Tofurkey I mean not flight they actually have you know a big hunk of it like you know like a Turkey. We have to slice it yourself. I haven't graduated to that yet. I'm contentious taking the slices in rolling them up and putting some gravy on it. But it's it's got some texture to it. You know I sort of an artificial texture. It's got that it. Does you do a Turkey. Would there you go. Does it make you sleepy with what I was. Just GONNA say without. You know you listen at happens you know. That's the price you have to pay for Turkey not that Turkey by the way I mean Turkey without grazing. Actually not that right interesting as now. I mean you dried out. It said you know this really neat. Something I mean you got to put gravy on it you you gotTa have it with. I don't mean you know. I don't mean homemade cranberry sauce. 'cause I ate cranberries I to me. It's it's way too bidder with sour or whatever but the ocean spray would taste. Nothing like cranberries which which is phenomenal. I can't I can't have stuffing Turkey. Ocean spray. I know you probably make you around but I it doesn't it doesn't thrill me people make but but no he jails and imbros and stuff. It's not that that doesn't faze me but Spray and gravy you need eight and stuffing you need to accompany Turkey if you cut yourself a piece to Turkey. I'm not talking about the drumstick drumstick I used to. When I was a kid? It was automatic. Steve gets the drumstick. Everybody knew that you know especially that skits crunchy and everything but the actual Turkey get Selva. BELVA sliced Turkey. Well sounded solid eating pepperoni. Thank you have you have to manage. You have to you have to get out in front of it and I it. There is because it is such a big it is such a big piece of of assorted meats. I mean I. It's what's fascinating about the Turkey Turkey as a as a meal and as an item to cook. I mean if you were if you got if you got the parts cut up. It's one thing like you can can get a chicken cut up but if you're cooking Turkey it it's it's a more involved process just because the things all heat up at at at different times and and so you know tenting it in certain spots and and covering sections with foil so that they don't over over Brown and burn the way the breast will have a tendency to dry out. If you're trying to you know you're trying to get that heat evenly through and get the you know. Get the whole bird to an internal temperature that you know that basically makes serval. So it's a bobby flay. Well I've been I been in the food business my whole life and that's quite a description of Turkey. Well it's all you have to prepare it properly and then you have to monitor it's cooking and the whether you brine whether you're going to dry brine or wet brine getting moisture in and a seasoning properly is instrumental. I mean. I do a thing with with a butter garlic schmear. You know you get in under the skin and your you know I also the the last couple of years I found it terrific Italian family recipe impeach With Bacon or Chetta that is that's where my son in Law West does when he you know like when they would come over for Thanksgiving. Oh you know make sure he would you know he would monitor the Turkey keys. He's a very good cook but he would wrap the entire Turkey with slag of Bacon. Sure absolutely absolutely. That's the fact you're doing for the fat and you can do it just as you know you can do that with butter as well and and olive oil but the getting under the skin and having like an internal people skin right now now now they love it they believe me people love it. 'cause they're th there is no. There is no greater satisfaction as a cook as a home. Cook then carrying off a Thanksgiving meal. I it it is an especially if you're if you're saddled with one oven and you know it's very tricky and making it all come together but it to me. It's my it's it's my favorite ever cooking enterprise of the year and I cook a lot finished by the way we you know your most Your most memorable accomplishment instrument in life is whether either doing the radio show or your Thanksgiving meals. I it is very to it is it is yes. I do go thanksgiving a year increase without a kitchen. Yes this year without a kitchen. You're not not not any shifts can say that that's a that's a fair point. This was this part of the funniest thing was how how. I don't know if you heard on Monday. But a remarkably we were shooting for three o'clock and we've always been sort of a mid afternoon family. You know three to four my mother you know no not much earlier than two thirty or three never later than four thirty I was. I was ready at one thirty somehow. How which shocked me on my i? Yeah I just maybe because I was so concerned that I was up against it from an execution acution standpoint somehow everything just sort of worked and that included you know I. I had a nice spread of appetizers. I made the mistake several years ago of of doing 'cause. My Dad loves deviled eggs so years ago when my father was able to come here I I started making a couple of things for him. deviled daggs and baked apples and my father is crazy for both so once I started making deviled eggs now. I'm obligated. Well thank God. Bless from the past from my childhood child because I couldn't stand the look of it that you know. It just looked like an apple that just I went bad exactly but I see people eating interesting when I was a kid. My mother used to make baked apples. And you know ah I it would it would. It would just turn me off looking at it. It just looked like an apple that's been sitting out for like three years. They do get a little shriveling and the little longer potch go but I gotta tell you it you. There's A. There's a reason. Baked apples aren't as popular now as they were. When when you when you and I were growing up because it's a major Paci I mean to prepare them is a pain and then to monitor you have to monitor them and they have to be basted On a regular you know you gotTa dip in with the Turkey baster and you gotta spit some with the juice and it becomes like a caramel sauce. I've got a great recipe with the Golden Baked apple with the California with with the golden raisins. You you've pack it with raisins and cinnamon and sugar. And then you do the rest of the baked apple stuff anyway. My father. I made it for him that one year and he was beside himself because he hadn't he hadn't hadn't had a baked apple probably since well before my mother died so he was thrilled. But the the thing that has become an institution now is the deviled eggs and now I've got piping one of those piping bags you know like like a cake. Decorator has so when I make the deviled eggs I got the little pattern on the you you know on the on the egg schmear it it you know. They're like a little work of art so I had to do as well on Thursday. Ah I always make way more because Tina you know. We're t tina could eat more more eggs than cool hand. Luke I I. I'm not kidding. Man can eat fifty eggs. No MANGONI fifty eggs Something for Thanksgiving that was even better than Turkey. Turkey a big grandson. Now they wouldn't Iowa they went back to Iowa for West is family field of dreams. All right okay. I I've been to field of dreams. We play unbelievable when when they when they When we visited went to visit his family in Iowa we we rented a field of dreams and it was exactly exactly the same? As was everything. Is there We and there was nobody there The owner the owner was out. You know manicuring field over there But West is nephew. Plays Little League happened to have his ball and his bat and gloves in in the car and we went out and we were playing born. I'm standing up there and I'm whacking them out. Tehran funds fight on the field of dreams. That's awesome what sells that's great. It's fantastic and the thing is you're driving but there's there's a list there's a little gift shop to buy souvenirs from the From the movie but a little grandstands is there That's great in the in the House. You know they actually shot it in the House that's on the field of dreams there but that was That was a blast. I've got a great photograph of Mandy. swing swinging away and hit hit. Hit the ball but It was great. I didn't hit a baseball in a long time. But that was yes It was great to stand up there and just Knocking them out to Out to the outfield didn't reach the Cornfield. Oh well now I'm I'm still. I'm still impressed. I thought when you said when you brought up I thought you you're going to say you had a picture of of of her petting Burt Lancaster. No I did not have that but as I was saying before by the way had something for Thanksgiving yeah go ahead was much better than Turkey. I had fish and I mean really good filter fish that who made the same person that That that that makes them when we go to Avi Roaders who uh Passover. They haven't catered some stuff in and whoever they get it from this was from Store there but it's like a walk you know it's not like little pieces along. It is so homemade is so good and she gave us a bunch to take home. And And oh God I I was. I didn't WANNA finish it. It was so good. I can't be real filter fish not getting the job. I mean that's what this was. So that's to highlight the highlight Thanksgiving was Was Goo Goo Celtics. That's pretty funny. I it's funny. You mentioned that like I had never seen that style until I lived in Montreal. And there's quite a few. There's quite quite a few places in Montreal that that that will prepare it that way and I had not that was unfamiliar to meet the big. The big you know like almost like a Yul log is is quite and there's something about cutting off it's like yeah slices you can cut off again slice and instead of individual texture is totally different. A friend put a big gigantic carrot in the top. That's exactly car. Who is so good that we had more well? Nobody made that they. Nobody made like My Grandmother Nobody homers. She would sit there with the with the grinder. Oh my God and believable. People grow up amazing Although I will when I get a chance I'll I'll teach you. I'll teach you how to take the jar and how to make it. Had Dr it up. My mother taught me how to take it and doctorate. And you can. You can add a step to it and cook it down further and you'll be shocked at how close it is homemade. Yes yeah yeah yeah yeah it. The key is that it's not in the jar. You're basically pasteurized. It's been cooked and pasteurized you. Then take it and add some broth add more add more broth you throw in you can throw in A. Ah Parsons and a little carrot as well to cook in with it for flavor but you then boil it down further and you'll see it'll it'll contract tighter the way the way your mother used to make and and then chill it and you'll be shocked at at the difference of what it was like when you took out of the jar and and then finished it. Trust me on this for you. No in the jar jar like like Jones Mandy by the way get I mean they ktar phone not bother me at all. It's brought us. It looks like Mucus. No it's it's just it's no different. I Made Turkey super that the Turkey soup after I chilled it. You know to skim off the fat. It looks the same way. That's just brought that they just put it in a pan and let the let it melt it down and it it'll be it'll be like a it's like chicken broth or Turkey Broth. Okay well we can just keep talking about this. Because I don't think there's anybody left listening. So no they believe me they they love it about the I've got I've got a bunch of stuff for you. Got The got the future wager. I want some thoughts and of course we got the four horses from Turkey that were in the future wager. We'll talk about the REVSON Simpson too. But and I know we've got two more weeks Steve However even though I knew I got the fateful call. Oh Tuesday about Lenny about Lenny's retirement pending retirement and we between we've got two more weeks and Lenny is going to I mean he's not GonNa completely fade from view but recently he chaz like he's going to be doing more work than he did when he was working so many key got so many gigs lined up You know and it looks like right now that he it might even be going into the office once a week. But he's GonNa be he's GonNa still do several features for the you know the blood who has she's going to you know he's going GonNa sign a contract to You know like I did to work on a freelance basis. He's got gigs lined up with the New York thoroughbred breeders with the Keeneland magazine with the thoroughbred Barbara California. He's working looking through a book you know he's got the University of Kentucky Press You know in his back pocket now we you know we have today's did Justify so he's got all these other ideas for books and it's GonNa be it's GonNa be He's going to be plenty busy but he will not be features editor how we will get him. We will get in a visit before or The before it's over and Lenny retires. He also said he's going to do some volunteering at at the dog shelter. Oh I didn't even realize that Yeah Yeah Yeah. He's he's already got how many he's got nominee owns. He's got like three three. Yeah which is usually a minimum. He you know he you know we get some thought. His dog from from Dell Hancock. He goes to claiborne farm to her house. And you know whenever she's got a litter or so and a a lot of time she'll go and it will pick out a dog from cadel Hancock. Of course the black glad. I thought you were about to say that. That that lenny gets his gift built a fish from Dell Hancock. Then uh-huh uh-huh picture is mixing all the white station everything exactly tackling sack Brin Nail Han so great so great. Well we we will get a lenny. Steve Retirement void. The shocker about this is that that that we thought you were Hanging the hanging up the typewriter and the Lenny ends up of technically efficient officially retiring. Before you that's true well you know the thing is well. We're well not really because we're you know we're in the same position you know. He retired from the blood -orse as I retired from the blood horse but technically we're both semi retired because we're still doing a lot of work. Yep still do ah listen you know. Good Dobie doesn't coming up. I'm going to be really. I'm busy every single day of the week with that. Absolutely that's something a lot of people look forward to that and You know it takes a lot of preparation and it's GonNa take even more preparation this year to come up with twelve forces possibilities what's abilities so totally spread out and wide open this year that You know I can just I can just picture I w dozen with a comment. You know what happened to this. Or how could you leave this sorts out. What happened in this you know? Oh you're oh you you don't have this short chain. You must be a hater. That's right I mean you know you know I mean people realize is that you know if you put out like a if you put out a list of like pop twenty five and your voice listed fourteen. Nobody says anything anything but the top twelve. That means they're like nowhere. I mean I try to convince them I said well right now you know. He's right knocking on the door. Like like maybe might be number thirteen or fourteen. But if they don't see that there then all of a sudden they means you know you hate the horse that okay. There's not a lot to come up with the you have especially this time of the year when you have so many of them and you get a you gotta gotTa Watch every single maiden race and you never know who's GonNa pop up and then you get some horse that made them by fifteen lengths and he said what do I do with him. Reno to so many courses right now that are accomplished in stakes races and this year has been just absolute crazy year. We'll see where they have you know when he started voting visit clip camping. Actually actually when you think about it by the way when you look at all the races coming this weekend the big winner already. We already have a big winner before all the races around and that stormed the court. You know wh when Tusa Log that beat Kentucky Jockey Club and eight rings withdrawn from the low sell thirty and there's no top. Two year olds going into Remington. There's really no no one else gives you clips award to you know I. I guess you could save. How is is Ano- door romps in the low sell through thirty Yeah you could. Maybe think of him but to me that would only make storm to court and breathing tube and a look look stronger to show you wrote a whole. I wrote a whole column on. I'm still on the court and to you know what an innate minutes horses and I've never seen this before where the opinions of him are so diverse and there are so many contradictions that people say I I have absolutely no clue what to make of this source. I mean the first few Kuwait comes out and Mike tackle you for some bizarre reason. Make some twelve to one. co-favorite with independence ended hall. This was that just one degrees juvenile at forty five to one by a neck in a race when none of the none of the favorites showed showed up. You're one of them literally in two of them figuratively. And you know people looking at the juvenile you know like some fluky race and twelve to one. CO-FAVOURITE I there was no way on. Earth is going to go off at twelve to one not only do not go off at twelve to one but the public it takes a completely the opposite direction and send some more preferred onto one which I which is even more than the call to one. I mean you had a bruised used up juvenile and you know good chance to be the two year old champion thirty one to one. I mean got the pedigree and you gotta remember number by the way is that after an adored it was gaps of like free and a half and four and a half the next. We don't know how strong the race that was. Just because you know eight rings I just stopped and you know like Trafford said he had he had lost weight after he after he won the American faeroe and he's giving him more time to put some weight back on track with extremely deep and he just didn't handle it And we you know we we what happens again this this moment at the start and he never showed up at all he just ran around. The racetrack didn't show up at all. You know he got hurt. So you're looking at somebody to win that race but but we don't know if it was a fluky race or he's that good he may maybe you know he's got the pedigree he he ran well enough in the American Pharaoh you know he's you know he's a great one winner and Greg One placed placed so we don't know how good the sources we don't have no Dano Dory's come you know he he. He was coming off the off the grants again. You look at two of the favorites in the two favorites Breeders Cup Juvenile Times you see two favorites reach juvenile both at because lost their rider in rice before that I mean how. How unusual is that everything is everything is unusual this year? We just we we. We really don't know what to what to make of it now. A up some peop-. Some people vote for eclipse award. They might. I'd say you know what they might. Just go out on a limb and and vote for independence all because his race was so totally spectacular. I mean I'm sure you saw this to a negative to when it's era graph I mean how many how many tweet roles get negative twos. I mean negative twos will win most Kentucky derbies already got a negative to on there So you know people might look at him people so I look at Maxwell field it makes it you know maybe he. He's the best you know if they don't WanNa vote the storm the court but it's going to be very very weird betting abetting I mean Voting voting for uh you know and I as you can see and depending Cheetah wage was with bedding leading to like even though Dory thirty one to one so people don't know what to do I don't think they have they have. They have no clue what to do with this crop foot. Two year olds and the crazy part is is that there's like six or seven of them who could be very special so it's going to be it's going to be very very unusual in the low south futurity. Let's let's talk to things they've as part of the futurity in Ano- door high-velocity thousand words and wrecking crew and also fold in you referenced. A referenced his the law getting upset and the Jockey Club Churchill on Saturday and nobody nobody I if you went around people be hard pressed to say who won silver prospector. We talked about. We talked about with Steve Asmussen the other day. Hey and it's funny. Because Darren Rogers Darren Rogers had had had said that that this was a it's over prospector was dangerous in there and and you know obviously a trip and and being bottled up for literally a mile takes its toll on on a horse. A young horse being asked to do something. You know a bunch of things for the first time and I I think that Being overly judgmental on Tis the law. I mean he he did still despite the getting beat and he still got that in the future wager went off at eleven to one one would that to me is. It's crazy. Code is offering eleven to one getting. Beat I'M NOT GONNA hold that loss against them. Sloppy track Even the best of trips you had bullets way through horses which was used to you know back down on the inside looked like at one point he was gonna get totally shut off but took it before spring finishers of the street sense. The first to finish in the street can't run completely up the track way up to track and the third place finishes wins so again. How do you figure it? I mean how how. How do you look at this crap for two year olds or you know just makes no sense? A lot of people thought that you know you can get the street sense that you know these choices you know look like like South Bend is going to be really nice horse and You know flying. CB Look Fighting CB. Looks like he was going to be nice. Oh Yeah I mean Nice yes I said Nice. That's the only thing so you just days. They did know running it all in the Jockey Club and the Horse and the horse that may be one up winning the race but right now the Kentucky Jockey Club but it's not you know one of the top racers law. I still think it's the best person there. But it certainly deserves another chance. You know against sloppy track and Barclay might be might be hoping right that not unhealthy but Waking he had He had kept them in New York in running the REMINGTON. 'cause renting really no standouts. You might you might get some emerged from there but there's no really big name horses Sir you want to my my my favorite thing with the bureau's is and I'm not gonNA go into it. Don't worry about it but I'm just saying we're learning that eight rings make your state deal in the sprint race. That's all I'll say right now. yeah a Derrick Watson. said that you'll love that you said Haskins GonNa love it That eight rings was Derek Consent. To somebody somebody I have some. I haven't written the column about it since Nyquist An exaggerated rain one two and so it might be time might be doing other One hundred get on my soapbox again in weight and wake people up to For word that a lot of people don't don't know anymore it's called history Let's gotTa Chase the points no you know and Churchill downs refuses to give sprint races. The fear that I already. I don't WanNa Sprinter in the Kentucky Derby. Yeah these prep races voices running in January February. They're not that doesn't mean sprinters. The of of the voices every single classic winner and every two and three year old champion in the Oh sixty seventies and eighties. Everyone of them started out in the sprint. So I'm getting myself started at upper ready to do EXAC- since since we're seem like we're on the verge of talking about the rams in and I haven't haven't really other than you. You know mentioning that. It had nice feel the nine. Let's let's take The REMINGTON first. And then we'll talk Low Sow and this group benign. It's a fairly accomplished group and everybody has made at least two starts and couple of already quite a few of already been to turns so from that standpoint or or at least a one turn Radha ground You know because New York you're you know so many of the routes our our one turn but it's a it's an interesting group and there's a horse that scratched The stay in this spot and stay on the east coast host. That shot ski of Jerry Wires that is really been moving forward nicely. He participated in that street street sense he was actually behind silver prospector. Whenever you're only two ranks exactly and he's blame out of a bluegrass cat bear? Adam walked. Oh and Gary Barber and some partners and I thought the shot ski I mean I. I didn't really think much of it when he scratched but when he turned up last night in the overnight kind of raise an eyebrow at at how progressive he is You've got Alpha sixty six for our friend. Paul POMPA and four hundred thousand dollar Liam's map that wanted I asking and Rian evenly in. The champagne didn't run badly. was fifth beaten mass than five How things with him? If you look at the comments it said the Shining Star. He didn't shy in at the start. Go Watch the race. The two K.. Miniature completely knocked him off stride. That's why he forgot that cliff. Once you've got about that you know he was like four lengths behind the next door stores and we really got shot after that like you said he ran evenly You know and listen because the laws is in there and green light go. I'm here nice in front of him so again. He was beaten less than five lengths to give him another shot. I don't you know Liam's map out of giant's causeway. I mean you know mile and as is again a tricky tricky distance. These are the horses that need to go back to sprint. You know 'cause when you run a mile on this early on like I said it just tends to down to the dull you 'cause you know what are they going to run the ramps and then what they usually the one fifty to one fifty three. You know it's always slow. Track is always slow. This time of the year But they I'll tell you interesting horse to To Watch in their shook source a man who I know I know he's only coming off a maiden win and the only guy that sixty He only got a sixty buyer. But if you watch that race he meeting long sustained run and he was just picking forces one by one and for young horse to start making this move on the backstretch and just keep coming in passing horses and he was very professional. Oh coming down the stretch. was didn't really abuse. He just has the look of a runner and again when you look at the time of one forty seven and one for monitoring things to slow you only got a sixty buyer but number one. That was a very very sloppy track. And that will lose it sloppy but what you have to do is look at the track variant thirty seven. I mean that's like one step away from from A mudhole. I mean that track had to be extremely deep and you know he he's been rating. Eating was only a sixty three but but in the old ways you would end the two up and sixty three thirty seven comes out to one hundred and that's always suspended. You look for anyone who who in the old days when you looked at the old one telegraph daily racial past performances. When when you add it up that was one of the handicapping tools heading up the crack variant and speed rating and if it ended up to like one hundred you knew that was a very legitimate race? Well his race ended up two hundred. And you don't see many thirty seven track very slow. That track was You know and it was just I would blinkers on and again I just liked the look of alkyl. Moana the medallion Dora Mayor. Yeah he's got to overcome the the nine nine hole but if he gets a good trip in here I don't know how good he is but we'll see I mean first grade He didn't break well now at all and it was a seven along then he finished six way way way way too far back in that lays So I think he improved a lot with the blinkers on so you throw out the foolish grace. These different ones with the blinkers on. Obviously a different horse going to turns red to go the Mylan our eighth for sure so I. I'm curious if this was runs an oppressor break here. He's got to be very serious horse. Sometimes you just look at a horse you can see that you know. Sorts is looks like a runner. I remember I remember. I remember looking at Catholic boy when he ran into ramps and seeing him in the paddock. That's wild it's this is a racehorse and Watching amends you know in the in the winter circle of that maiden race he just has a really the look of of a really nice horse. So I'm really curious to see what he does in here but like you said. Shot Ski is a horse to. That's got the credentials Alpha Sixty six. Yeah you can you look back to his maiden race you look at state. He won by a neck but the second who actually was eight lengths ahead of the third horse. which is something I always look to say And after his last start plus he's taking the blinkers off of him from. I'm expecting another big race from him. So you know any any one of those three horses that could emerge a horse. That was very impressed with when he broke his maiden is that actually carrying mclachlan scores for for Shad. Well you know. He broke his maiden going a mile and it was very. It was a solid mile and he grew grew off in that race. He was forced the Oro who came back and won. And there's also in the ramps and He was a bit disappointing in the in the breeze security he was he was in the back of the pack but Match field is just absolutely blew by him on the turn like he he he was just looked like he was standing. Still Matfield went by so fast and he plotted along and sit and was beaten a well beaten fourth in there. But I'm not giving up on him he suddenly Bradford this by curl out of a daughter. Mayor so I'm curious to see how you know how he bounces out of that race race so he he. He looks interesting in your voice on the radio. Talk Clutches Others Chase draco gets Gets blink his on a AH after he got creamed by Independence Hall. Which I'm not GonNa hold that against them but yeah he was? He was a Welby in third in there after. Uh you know after breaking his maiden principally parks plus you send parks and break his maiden and we can't bet anymore anymore every place you look now horse is coming from parks. They're all over the place you start looking at some of the other races over the weekend and you said you you. You've seen horses that you look at their past performances and parx racing there somewhere boxes you now. He's not is not quite like it. Used to be so I mean all in all like I said there's no standout in the Remington but you know there are several horses that could emerge words from this race and be You know and look like a legitimate derby horse but the horse is I'm looking at most of these Eh Alpha sixty six shots and maybe you know and also looking at mostly well the fact that you know. And plus the fact that that The Ron Anderson sticks with Karen and the Shadwell home bread and that that not that getting being Jose Ortiz is any kind of a of a comedown but clearly. Rosario you know chooses to ride. Is your wheat here. After having them out on on a men's in his first two starts those that the track that you know I will say this that before we talk about the dirty Steve Shug was with me Was it yesterday or Tuesday and we had a fun conversation as always and He sounded sky high about Calandra coming into the Moselle. He looks uh actually a good race. Really Yeah I thought taught. She ran a terrific race in the answer by these I mean he had a terrible start that ray he was absolutely nowhere. And the you know the fact that she got up preferred in that race. I thought it was very impressive. You know and again when he broke a maiden only one by half a length but this is the second filly was five lengths ahead of the third horse. And it's a again. It's something I always I always looked at and you look at her pedigree. You know she's going to go you know she's GonNa love the the Disney blame out out of an AP and the mayor. So I I could certainly see I can certainly see. Should be in being hiring on her she I think she's a very good phillies. It could develop into one or two pops series next year and he got remember to Broadway Hugo like I said you've broken by a half length at Saratoga. Choose a favorite the answer. These young men and eleven field. He goes over the two one favorite so obviously in. Yeah obviously people people had a lot of respect for her and much like what you referenced with Max Field Field His win similarly British idiom blue that race apart anyway so She's a little maybe a little dirty up in. They're all right. Let's turn our team that we've talked through by coming back exactly exactly well speaking of British idiom Of course in the starlet. We do have the the great the only grade one of the weekend and we do have done a Vallejo J. coming back and ran a whale of a race as fast and I and those to headline the starlet. And I know People Steve are are like losing their minds like they do about everything. They're losing their minds. Because there's four horses in the low south you thirty. I'd like to know exactly what other what other cannon fodder was necessary in here other than the second and third place finishers from the Breeders Cup and and two of Baffert's potentially best twenty twenty three year. Olds I I. I'm fine with this group. Oh yeah how'd you ain't listen. I'd love to see honor in here as well but looking at these four. It's it's GonNa be a jockey's race and it's going to be just really interesting. How the things work out and I'll tell you what the African you know? Sometimes when he talks up a horse when he talks about a horse a lot and you know a lot of people people looking at you know the the supposedly you know the hot horse. Is You know thousand words. Babar does not stop talking about high velocity and baffled long enough that when he starts with when when he keeps mentioning the same horse and it keeps telling you over and over again that this is a really good horse I I would take at the bank so you know thousand words might be the horse. That's going to get better but that the average talking up big time Ms is high-velocity even though if you look at like the if you look at At Kobe speed figures. Thousand Words got Got A one. Oh six WCHS and as I start you know. I've got one hundred when he won the Bob. Hope but you know those those things really don't mean that That much to me you. You're talking about Different race tracks and the thing is do we know how good and outdoors the one thing about animal. DOORNS last start if you watch One Who named it one in this. It's Kim seventeen times in that race. I count is over. He was hitting him under fraud. Turn so to me that AH in some ways that makes them the court. Look even better that this was could not catch him so it depends on how you WanNa look at it and you say well you gotta be hit seventeen times. That's an awful lot But because at the quarter pole looked like he was GonNa win the race and I yeah. I gave them a shot in here because again. It was unknown factor going in yellow rumps by eight lengths on the grass. And and and he's the horses bred for the dirt medallion. TAP IT Mayor He's BR certainly bread for the third clue how good this is so I I don't I don't know how much he's going to improve off of that. He's certainly. You certainly could improve off of it. And he should know wrecking crew. You know he's not GonNa blow you away but he's never run a bad race run. Four Times been added money these other horses run once or twice. He's got it you know he's he's got a lot more bottom under them. Speeds figures are good. He's only beaten three lengths Breeders Cup. He's going to be the fourth choice era. I would imagine so I mean you you know. Not only that. But he's he's not easy run four times he's placed into into great ones and and great too so you know I'm not gonna I'm certainly not going to not GonNa Count Him especially Peter. Peter Miller seems to win these kinda races. Pena Mela wins. He's racist when you don't expect it and the last few years Peter Miller it's Sent out a lot of good horses and I mean I it would. It wouldn't shock me if this is This worth ran big in here come on workouts. And he's never he's never run a bad race. It's been it's been every race race that you've got to win two seconds of third and running in grade one great dudes and he's you know he's he's placed in there so certainly can't can't discount him from here you know. He's and he's you know Rockingham ranch in the partnership of Rockingham ranch. David Berntsen They've had tremendous success over the last few years. Seems like those jokes are Are Everywhere now every time you every time you see those jokes they always into run a good raced So again it's going to be It's GonNa be a jockey's race here any it's not. It's not your typical group of Jockey you know you want Hernandez Abelson Drain Van Dyke and Flavian Pratt So it's GonNa it's GonNa be interesting to see how how it works out and who's GonNa go to the front and this race you would think high-velocity will but you know you just don't know no door from the from the inside so I I'm I'm fascinated by this race. I I'd love to see on Arabian here only because or because of how impressive aggressive he looks and you know the word was out on him before you even started so we'll have to wait on him but you know. Listen I'll take I'll take these four any day of the week and it's the same. It's the same thing with the start. I'll take the out out. I'll take that small field when you come come up with Woodward's phillies like Donald Team Bats. I mean vote coming up monster efforts and the stuff we've also got an addition you've also got a maiden race worth Watching after the star at the eighth these are boys going six. And you've got some debut as you got some horses coming back baffert Scott that cool more Warfront cold warpath you've got Hallowed Gift West Point and John Sadler. This was two hundred fifty thousand thousand dollars. April purchase baffert brings back the twirly canning Colt Rod that produced thousand words. Hundred thousand fanatical. Yes they did. Yes they did A MAC down random boots. He's GonNa prove off his last start. You know he was. You know he was fought but he's going to UH each gonna Improve Van Dyke time. He hadn't got a book on Him. But yeah I mean those are. There's a bunch of a bunch of a bunch of major races three on Saturday and you got this one You got this one here so again. If I say to you watch out you start looking at the stake race. They have the at acqueduct on Friday where you had a couple of main track only horses that are interruption including out but so it's Alpha six so when you start looking by the way you start looking at all these American Pharaohs running on the grass what I don't I don't care if these grass races or not all these horses you see running on the grass. Now they're going to go on a dirt soon enough. I mean I mean American. Farrow's what are you gonNA do. What are you GonNa do if you got a two year old run well on the grass? You know it's like structure instructor who Van American federal. But he's always everyone dirt but he's heading for the dirt all these grandparents. They're in the racist for them. You have a graduate aggressiveness. A lot of times train is putting me horses on the grass. He's young horses just to get a turn rations to them to get along race but again race race that fills if they're ready to run. This gets settled. Mean aggressors you get so many with Doug pedigrees now running on the grass so when you start looking at all these American faeroes. They're not. They're they're running well on grass. Yeah but believe me dinner organised orders dirt and they could be just as good on the dirt. There's no reason why they shouldn't be well Certainly coolmore is GonNa hope they're going to they're going to be as good on the on the dirt that that. Yeah that that-that needs to start happening so you L.. Listen American table could cook turned out to be a tremendous grassroots himself but when the triple crown and and if you look at his pedigree agree to sit still dirt happily running on grants. But I'm just saying they're all they're all GonNa go global at some point. They're going to get a chance. Yeah they're GONNA get point for the Transylvanian something. I mean here. You're gonNA give these horses chance we've got to give him a chance well among you mentioned Since we got the other two year old races raises out of the way there are two divisions of the maiden specials at acqueduct on Saturday We'll talk tomorrow with Dave Greg. And you've got the first and the theft theft so the start and the finish of the early pick five and one mile on the main track and among the participants the seven hundred twenty five thousand dollar Colt Out of Grace Hall orifice and Marquette for Don Adam Adam and there's quite a few quite a few others with experience cost basis is going to be the heavy favorite in that first this is an intimate jeff that ended up running a good second. Second Start when he stretched out in October at Element Element Belmont. You've got the historical lady tap it. Cold Tap page for Godolphin that faltered. Frankly going a mile and an eighth earlier in the month in here as well second time out for farming Farmington road eclipse and and The chrysalis people that bread this colts funny Quite a few may foles in this thing. That are jumping off the page in me. orifice preface is a Maafo first line for Orlando Noda is a May fol. How `Bout That quality road is a May Foale mischief afoot. A May Foale down quite the quality road. I'm I'm I'm talking about Farmington road. Yeah Yeah That's a nice horse. You know you know he's he he gets Castellano and again people look at random fifty eight five for first time out but he he he was so again so out of it. You gotTa Swing Really White. He I know he's part of an entry but but was wanted to when it's you know in his first start so again I know I know I know it was part of an entry but You know it's a it's a clips and it's going to be It's going to be interesting. I think he's GonNa show dramatic improvement with his first start. These were the Mile in plus the plus. You got a six foot long race on the same card. We could get some nice horses and there are a lot of first-time starters in there that that look interesting. mclachlan's got a private Bill Mosca first timer. Jeremy Engelhardt has got a timer. Jonathan Thomas for Mr Evans for Ralph Evans Quixotic a quality road colt. Three hundred thousand here by the way you gotta buy competitive edge distorted humor man dressed. I that Yeah that one for their magner. Yeah Cute Yeah. I'm not I'm not. I'm not familiar with the With that trainer I I don't know how good Eddie is but nice ways he's okay he's he's all right he's been with me. I got the first time by quality voting. Here I I had asked you sent on Tuesday and I I asked him. I think about just about the maiden winters that he'd had over over the weekend over the holiday and then there were another they're literally were another six or seven that I couldn't even get to. I mean it was Yeah and it's it's it's over prospect to it as well. Yeah absolutely breath and finite well Steve. This was tremendous ended up going ended up doing an hour unexpectedly. But always fabulous fabulous. We were we we divide our time. And that's the that's the lure you know Pe- you know people listening insane. Should I keep listening to talk about Turkey and fish and stuff as long as we have something to promise them in the second half at least get into stick around and listen to To talk about time but the second ACA leaving those see stones concert you gotta sit through the opening band. I exactly is. It was always a unexpected treat on the the early portion. We'd never nowhere. We never know where it's GONNA lead. We're going to the worst people gonNA learn something right. Exactly they're going to learn how to base to Turkey and learn how to go out and you know what to do with fish perfect. I'll I'll Gal said you note with that so you so you can you can benefit from my My mother my mother taught me that. So that's that's wasn't acceptable. You need your mother that's it. That's that's stop me qualifications you need from your mother exactly. I will Talk to you. I actually I'm going to be home. I won't I won't talk to you from Arizona. I'll be back from California Arizona. So yes so. You're doing some panel right. Yeah I got. Yeah about doing this. Show and and I'm doing the surface. Actually the racing surface panel which should be good. And I'll be at Lowe's Allen Saturday the most ubiquitous presence in the service. So let's say can't can't say ubiquitous without big talk. Talk to him next week. Steve asking everybody Oh my God. We'll talk a rich Yang after this. It was his birthday the other day. APPERANCES with Steve Vic on Sirius. Xm Radio UH home at the tracker on the go express bed is your way to play. The Racist Express Bet provides legal insecure online and mobile betting on more than three hundred of the world's top tracks and all the big events. And when you sign up for an express Ben Account Today with Promo Oh code vic that's B. Y. K.. You'll receive a one hundred twenty five dollar bonus once you've signed up you can take your wagering experience to the next level with XP Rewards Express Bets industry-leading Loyalty Program earn points for every bet. You can cash them in on everything from wagering credits to exclusive race track experiences. So what are you waiting for. Sign up for express bet today using Promo Code. BIC That's be y que to get your one hundred twenty five dollar bonus conditions supply must be eighteen hundred billion twenty one in certain states to open an account with expressman. LLC and reside in the state where such activities legal void where prohibited National Link Support Line. Eight hundred five to two forty seven hundred one forty five over ninety to one eighty over one hundred eighty two over one hundred and I had a heart attack and in cardiac arrest and then stroke your blood pressure. Numbers could change your life. A lot of people don't understand mm-hmm including myself I didn't now. I do the impact of having a show. My memory is shot when I woke up. Ah I can speak. If I would've followed a treatment plan I would not be in. This situation stuff'll journey lowering your high blood pressure could could save you from the heart attack or stroke if you stop your treatment plan restarted. Talk to your doctor about creating one that works better for you. Start taking the right steps at manager. BP Dot Org. I said I wanNA make it better. Comebacks skew doctor. Check your blood pressure. In the business of horses in the world's only accredited equine business program Ram the University of Louisville Equine Business Program. The University of Louisville has a legacy of excellence for more than twenty five years of equine business. Education classes are taught auto industry experts in state of the art facilities located in the heartland of America's Equine Industry the University of Louisville equine business program when it comes to horses as we mean business for more Information Visit Business Dot Louisville dot edu slash equine breaking down the biggest stories in the world's poorest racing this is with steep on Sirius Xm radio Barnabus Meta Girls Salad drinks this phone thing. This is really so some logging street on Friday. GotTa go badly no-doubt Holdout Puzzle League the mother we're back now and to non rich rich is taking a vacation so we will bother rich but we will say happy birthday. I don't want to. I don't want to miss an opportunity to extend those regards They're actually. I actually got some house cleaning here we can. Maybe we do and that includes from earlier this morning. I should've mentioned that New York was off the turf and that is is going to Unfortunately put a dent in today's tap-in stakes a One MTO very clever. The Dream Weaver George has got the daredevils Philly idear are you. George actually owns with Randy Hill and very clever of George to enter. MTO With this. I out winner. And that came at Belmont finch. She's actually worked nicely since her trick and fielding bread and it looks like a bargain the twenty five thousand Oh Bs April so you've got an MTO to deal with and the only other horse with with dirt. Experience is more glitter. The more than ready that micro Poli has with the todd and let's see they should actually the scratches and such should be up Because it is eleven forty in fact Probably Getting Ready to dive into depending on on. What the post time is a New York Post time changes every day? I never say I've never seen anything anything like it. It's crazy it's the craziest. Thank you literally have to check every day when the when the CIA chant when the racist start so let's see in the third who's come out of here and you can a scratch Nola gay that We talked to Shook knew we knew it was coming out should told us that And and it looks like looks like no. That's it really. That's it only in all the game so everybody is going to try their philly on on the main track and there is actually there is actually Semaine track form and or at least pedigree. They're going to do this at a mile by the way is the adjusted distance. Stretch stretch the story that Allen Kaci has with Herald Ventures Andy Beden Lube breeds. Nice Source New York bread and this is a look at lucky out of a Stephen got even mayor And plenty of plenty of reason for this horse is to take to. The main track also gets first lasix in the fourth career. Start interesting very interesting justin quality heat on the outside for Cassie and Gary Barbara so The tappin on on the main track. Today I'm just looking up and I think we got Richie Balkis the we.

Turkey TA California Steve writer Jackson Lenny apple baseball Ryan Tony Mike Smith Kentucky Danny Velazquez New York Pula Wing Day Barnes superintendent joppy
President-Elect Joe Biden

Hacks on Tap with David Axelrod and Mike Murphy

1:01:40 hr | 9 months ago

President-Elect Joe Biden

"Looking for something new to watch choose from thousands of documentary films and factual series right at your fingertips with curiosity stream available wherever you stream videos for. Only twenty dollars a year. You'll have access to curiosity streams vast library with new films and series added every week. So whether you want to explore mars or travel back to ancient civilizations curiosity stream has the content that empowers you to dive. Deep into your favorite subjects and explore new territories to it's sure to entertain enlighten and inspire. Get yourself access to the best documentaries on the planet and award winning exclusives sign up and learn more at curiosity stream dot com. Hey pull up a chair. Attacks on tap with david axelrod robert gibbs and mike murphy and this campaign is over. What is the will of people. What is our mandate. I believe it's this america. Call upon us tomorrow. The force of decency the forces of fairness to marshal the science and the forces of hope the great battles of our time the banner control the virus the batmobile prosperity the battle. Secure your family's healthcare. The battle achieve racial justice and root out systemic racism in this country. So there you have it. We've got a new president. There's news forty six president of the united states. Yeah something happened way. What yet. I tried to tell you guys the pay attention. This was going to be a big week. Oh actually everybody's been. I don't know if you've been getting these These messages about where's hacks on tap. Why aren't you back and so on. It was my secret plan to make sure that we waited long enough that some of these states came in the way. they said. they said they were going to. So we didn't look like as big a bunch of idiots. We might have earlier in the week now. Your true. I actually two days ago. I'm going to reveal this now in a world exclusive to call my old friend. Senator vince famo- from south philadelphia zuma who a hundred thirty seven convictions. Yes he added printouts of The is said vance. Warm up the caddy. We may need you. Because i'm not gonna look like an idiot after ohio and florida pennsylvania so We put the machinery to work and now thank god. We have a new president. Now gibbs what happened in north carolina. i'm gonna try to help you wiggle out of that production. Do not let him do that to you. This is a classic debate. Say i think who predicted texas in ohio and i frequent. I didn't i predicted florida and ohio. Wrong wrong you are with me on florida you kind of lord me into that way. I didn't follow down in texas and the listeners need to understand that if you multiply the gap between trump and biden in north carolina eight. You probably still. Don't get the margin that Murphy was wrong in just ohio. And let's just not going to bring up florida. I florida one footnote. I got. I got a call from the world referee association trying to sort through and they have adjusted the dade county returns if obama biden hadn't opened communist cuba and it turns out. And we're in a ten thousand point race so gibbs it still on you and ex. When did you find that out. That obama had access. Yeah someone should have told you that before you got into it. Somebody's told biden. Anyway i am. I am glad that we waited long enough to make a few of our predictions right. We were thin on georgia georgia. I told you guys now we have actually. I don't think as we're speaking that arizona's been called but it will be it will be. Yeah yes it will be We didn't even talk about nevada. We didn't think it would be nevada. Sarah nevada last time in its close. You know. close again this too. We'll see where i think. He'll end up beating trump by more than hillary did yada to there so But but overall overall like a gazillion people voted a probably over. What over a hundred and fifty million. It will be when all at once california new york and all that may be close of man one sixty and and look let's be let's be clear about it. Donald trump Know joe biden will have gotten the most votes of any presidential candidate in american history. Donald trump will be second to none huge turn up almost two points better than he did for years ago. And i think you know despite won't even get into the polling quite yet. But i mean just the idea of after watching four years of this i i think one of the reasons democrats were so apoplectic about nine nine or nine thirty on election night was they couldn't figure out how in the world after four years this there were more trump supporters but in reality there were well. Here's my thing. Donald trump was a master at whipping up and galvanizing his base. And we saw that on on tuesday. It's just what we also saw that. He was a master whipping up and galvanizing the opposition and there were more of them and that's been his promise. Murphy you've been saying this for a year and a half You know it's based first base last base always and he ultimately he. He paid a price for it. You know i totally agree. There's also i mean you know. We all made the mistake of believing poles but the bottom line is the polarized countries. Here to stay biden's incredible lead will be partially driven by very blue places trump's by very red places but in the competitive states it was pretty competitive now kudos to biden for pulling it off but they're clearly a bunch of republicans who thought you know. I can't take trump anymore. Joe doesn't seem that bad But i'm gonna hang on to my my local are Just because i'm not sure where biden's going to land on an issue stuff so in that's the road looked biden is better equipped by temperament background relationships to navigate. This divided thing than anybody else and you know. He made three promises. The unite the country handle covid and get the economy going again in an all three of those. I think you can find some bipartisan support. At least in the voters even in the our world and definitely in the indie world. And that'll that'll that'll be a pressure that mcconnell hanging on depending on the georgia runoffs. We're talk about by a vote Half that caucus will feel it. The other half will be often new hampshire republic side yet. way trump. when you're up there yeah well. That's that's coming to yeah. Trump is gonna take. We've talked about this before. Trump is gonna take his show and move it down the street. You know and But he's not going away You know. I heard a lot of ego will you know. Will he concede will no. He's not going to concede he's going to maintain you saw you. He tweeted this morning. I won this election by a lot and then set went off to the golf course gonna file. Yeah murphy our twenty twenty four. They're already working on the logo. Let's get even but that said i you know we're have plenty to talk about down the road. I think that a fish out of the freezer for two weeks. I'm not sure he'll ever be what he was in the party. Got a lot of young guys doing the trump music that would like him to rot away so they can make their move. So we're seeing. It's going to be game of thrones and the republican party. So what do you make of the fact that in addition to being little off i mean i got. We'll see where the final race lands when the votes from california come in in What march How long did for a lucky Way we said we'll see when that comes in whether the How much he binds stretches the lead. Because you're right robert. he's i think what. what is he about three and a half up right now. Three app past five He could stretch it to five. Yeah i think. I think it will. I do think we have to be careful. There are a lot of generalizations about the first hour of election night. That aren't going to hold in a week or a month or half a year Ends i think that there's gonna be some very interesting stuff about all that that goes on the republican party other than trump and and and somewhat arguing. I mean might. You may be one of them that you can include this in this. The republican party itself had a really good night. Yeah no there ain't no coattails yeah it was like two different elections if there were co tells you know. They were trump's In that he whipped up a big turnout in these republican areas. The and you know there was there were at least half a half dozen state legislative chambers. That were thought to be in contention. Republicans retained all of them in a redistricting year. Republicans rebuffed a the democratic. What looked to be like a pretty good path to take the senate susan collins produced. She proved herself to be really really. Resilient hell yes. I pitch them a bumper sticker by the way for their supporters. Senator susan collins next time try. Kryptonite is amazing in maine what she pulled off. Yeah trump's that state by a lot and and she ended up winning by pretty good margin. Yep it's remarkable in this environment that you can have ticket splitters. It's it's really you know it which is kind of a good thing for politics. I'm for i. Didn't i thought we'd sort of seen the last of it and and she didn't. She didn't squeak by she. She was fairly convinced. I'll tell you she was someone who you know when you when you were in the as you know robert in the obama white house and you needed to try to find a republican you know you would be the first place is she's going to be even more important now because You could depending what happens in georgia. We ought to talk about that but You could have a fifty one. Forty nine senate and So she romney. I'm rakowski senators. Who are going to hold a lot of sway their for biden's program but my question to you guys is why why did why did republicans do as well as they did. Even as trump lost while mix one. Big turnout big turnout. Across the board and more you know more balanced her split states at that help. Both sides can cancel itself out and ours. Were not blown away too. I think people kinda put trump in escrow you know they thought all right we got got the trump reality show. We're going to pull the plug on. But i don't really know other than biden. Who seems somebody i can deal with. I don't know what the rest of these these are really for. So i'm not gonna kinda rush down the Rush down the thing here now. We all had the kind of smarty pants analysis and i fell fourteen. Two of well people are going to republish. Punish the republicans because they were too nice to trump and a now i think people kinda went to fundamentals. Trump's an asshole gotta make a change. Can't run covid but Other adam stand with my team and a lot of them were incumbents. And i'll tell you you know. Most incumbents win incumbents do have an advantage and the senate and comets lot of him switched to kind of a senator pothole campaign to close on counted a ton of that The kind of run like mini governors glue themselves to the states and That made it easy. And the iowa's and places where there was some of that messaging to the hang on. Yeah that big turnout. That that that i mean. Essentially that rising tide didn't get enough for trump because the campaign was singularly about him. But that rise really did take a lot of Seats that whether their house seats senate seats that the democrats thought they could either Protect or win and The just got swamped. And i i think a lot of places you'll see. Democrats got probably the vote that they thought they needed to get. They just didn't think that republicans would get nearly the vote that they got. And i think that in the end swamped a lot of people. What about the Idea murphy that Like i you know. I i like a more than like. I really admire nancy. Pelosi think she's brilliant brilliant and historic legislative leader But there was the back and forth on the stimulus that never happen. Yeah you can argue. The ds were a little too clever by half on that in the house thinking that they win the crash if it was a game of chicken and You know maybe not The other thing. I think i think i think you're under something there. I think the i didn't see enough media to know what the dem congressional message was other than we hate trump to. I don't think it was as clear as eighteen when it was a referendum on pre existing conditions and. I think that might have hurt him. A little bit too I think that's right. 'cause i think the truth is in a world of trump. You're never going to have a a. You're never gonna series of races that that devolve down to policy battles right. You're going to have it. It's it's it's almost singularly personality the You mentioned that he won Independence by fourteen He also won moderates by which is the largest cohort in the country By two to one where with liberals and conserve their more conservatives but liberals and conservatives went to each corner biden. We spent a lot of time here doubting him as a candidate in the primaries when he was staggering through Iowa new hampshire And it didn't look like he could finish this race and everybody always. You always look good when you win. You know. I always say you never smart. You look when you and you're never as dumb as you look you lose but But you know they had a message that was the right message and they had to endure the primaries but in general it worked You know the soul of america and the character contrast was really what powered this thing. He he understood or they understood. You know donald and the rest anzalone and Gentlemanly dylan they all deserve. A big needed done a salute. I think they knew. Ron clean and shetty That good campaigns are amplifiers of the right contrast you know and that amplify what's true and biden was the anti-trump as far as empathy. No drama back to normal No more chaos and they got the card they had and they played it every day. And i don't think there was a single day in the campaign. That biden was in real trouble of losing kind of the control of that And the fact they manage their cash well and could never get out muscled on advertising after the convention was great too so i i give them a big salute i think if they had a time machine looking at some of these states bet they wish they'd played middle class economics little harder because they let trump sells tickets there but other than that and you know dade county which tactical It's hard to find anything that i think. A big salute to those guys. I think they were calm and smart and they had a plant. He added any two things that i've said before but i'll say it again. I think one is. We've talked about a remarkable message discipline the ability to draw back from his announcement speech. I bet will be pretty heavy You know have that sort of message discipline And to get it right. And i think you know i've said this before as well used to say this a lot in obama that Particularly as we were thinking about running and and obama was thinking about running is y- you know you don't pick the moment the moment picks you and i think joe biden is just perfect for the moment. Yeah whether it is incredibly seventy forty seven years into his career cry and you and you know they're not going to finish well and it is one of those things you know you you. He he's probably looked at the calendar hundred times and thought they were better there. This was the moment for him to do something. This was the moment to run and in reality it was this time that his persona what he stood for his values what he talked about what carried the moment. And it's right for the moment and is is i. I think he he comes into office with more challenges than any president elect in nearly a century. Let me Bring us to one sidebar topic before we can abandon the rear view mirror and then start looking forward. Gazette latte to happen but i think one of the reasons that you guys were so horribly embarrassed by predictions was and you want okay and making me we. We believe polling. Because we've all been doing this. A long time and generally polling is pretty helpful but this time it it it it it was off and so what do we think about that. I'm going to start with one caveat to Dr david hill. The pollster who first brought the rolling stones to alabama and. I've worked with a lot one of the best. He an interesting note after the election. The rolling stones to alabama. Yeah as a young rock concert promoter grad student. He did he. Yeah he's got the most interesting background of any who wouldn't trust his numbers like that. But here's the thing When he's not moving apps he's all right all right. Let me get. The political science jokesters. His initiative polling was dead on his candidate. Polling wasn't and. I'll bet if you look around that's going to be true in a lot of places which indicates beyond sampling and trying to model turnout and all that all the challenges. There's something going on where the old compact Were people in. The pollster had an honest conversation in the trump era. Maybe not. it's a great question. I don't know the answer because it's interesting. If you look at some of the regional polling like some of the stuff in the upper midwest was pretty good. Some of the upset in the upper midwest was terrible. Right in minnesota was was was pretty good. You know let's not forget washington post. Abc good pollsters. Right ed wisconsin seventeen. Maybe maybe they maybe they thought they were watching. Badgers football game and not like a poll. But i don't know. But i think we've somebody's got to figure out what in the world's going on with it because quite frankly david when you read me these numbers in the exit poll. You might as well be reading me. Tomorrow's lottery numbers. I just don't have any real faith that we know. I think i don't have a good sense of this election for a few months until there's a lot more analysis done of kind of what really happened and who really voted. Because i just i'm not going to believe you know murphy. Got suckered into believe believing all that stuff He made and so you know. I don't wanna get gullible in these I do have tomorrow's lottery numbers here by the way. Let me get them to. This would be the cook county lottery. I would say to. I mean i hope that at some point you know. I mean look and you'll point this out. I'll get it before you do. I did send you a lot of polls when they came out but yeah but and we talked about a lot of polls on the phone every day but man. We've got to have a presidential election where it isn't just a coverage of the polls each day because it just agree you don't learn anything except we say that every four years. How about exit. Polls can we talk about those. Yeah but first altogether. hello iowa one-two-three apologies and is semi out. That night i was very sorry. Almost immediately Very few is right right on it in iowa. We we we were we were. We were wrong. And she's still. She's still gold standard of iowa polling and celtic. Got it right. That turned out to be not a close race. Did anybody pick of the three d. We none of us picked. I no no no no that i would have had a very very good record. But for following murphy. Yeah yeah yeah north carolina. Don't worry acts. i'm working florida it's in. We've we've overcome this obama problem in miami. Why are there So but north carolina that was a look the shockers were susan collins who defied everything of normalcy in in polling in st panel. That if you really close to your state and if you know especially small state. I relate outs matter. He was looking good there. And tell us at real trouble. But north carolina across the board. Kinda was another one where the data was wrong. In it it hiccup back the other way. Probably a huge role turn out. Yeah so just before you go too. Far down the road on it relates to the You know To the polling we We all expected a jain. Ormuz gender gap. There was a big gender gap but it was no bigger than four years ago. It was thirteen points. We didn't i didn't necessarily see men basically even which is what the exit poll had. Now let's think about this for a second. That can't be right if well if women were up. Thirteen men can't be even or biden. Would've won by there. Were more women voting than men. I think the thing to do is we got you know. Send some whiskey. Door friends at edison and who are who are listeners. By the way. Hi gang at edison And re wait the exit polls to reality and then we're going to know what happened. Yeah so ira Because on this polling on this polling issue before the election in white non college women were thirty nine percent for biden sixty for trump that is improvement over four years ago. when I think hillary got twenty seven. I it was a six point improvement but it wasn't the kind of gigantic improvement that some of the polls predicted so the the notion of a shy trump voter which is the term that pollsters have developed. People who were for trumpet. Didn't want tell poster they were for trump. Maybe there's some to it. Yeah i think so. Is that initiative. Delta's interesting to me. Yeah you know because you don't you don't get in a fight with anybody over where you aren't proposal j yeah. I was infuriated by proposal. Jay but into a fight over prop twenty eight the other day. Maybe we get rob farm in edison. After they've waited that might be a good conversation to have consists is an interesting electorate that gave us response. Well it interesting that after the polling mistakes of twenty sixteen and and all the thought that went into recalibrating them. It's likely you up four or five percent that we've got a pulling error at least equal to what we had in twenty sixteen if not slightly greater and so usually you can talk. You know you. that'd be a four four percent on both the national and the state. I mean at least last time the national stuff was pretty close and then the terribly bad state polling wasn't nearly as good. I think there's clearly a big problem that somebody's gotta figure out just to be clear. You know the the famed pollsters that were going to look at and find the trump voters. They didn't do too. well either. You know one other footnote on this polling thing. I think were move on to the future. At usc center for the political future. Check us out online. We did this big panel back poll and you know we had a ten points. My our friend. Bob shrum was you know couldn't have been happier. I thought oh. I've got this figured out. It's only seven points while we did an experimental thing where some scientists from europe or over at our institute. And i would name them but i would mangle their names but they did the social circle thing like what are your friends talking about. Who do you think. They're vote for blah blah. They had a four four and a half. The four point eight point race much tighter I think there's a future in some of that too. it's interesting we published it. All people can take a look murphy. How meeting listen to them. When you're making your predictions shrimp called me. All worked up and said you believe it. They just put out a press. Release four point. Some biden online too But now that we now we're looking at it at there. There may be some but you also don't know post trump if everything calms down a little if that problem will start to melt away. There's a lot of problems that are going to start to melt away now. He's got brother. Well let's talk about that. Let's talk about it because first of all incredible seen The race was called this morning. Just this outpouring of people into the streets and look. I think one of the things that happened in this race is that as trump became meaner and more dislike -able to a lot of folks biden became more likable. And i think there is you know. He ended up with a favourable rating from voters. They liked him him. And i have no doubt that the people went out Were you know. Basically people who really liked by boa brought them to. The streets wasn't biden. What brought them to. The streets was trump. Yeah the joy of goodbye like the you know. Ding dong the witch is dead. Kinda thing all over the country But now biden's the dog that caught the car and a big stack of problems ahead Though i'll tell you. I was hearing some of the cable. Hot air artists current. What a participated. One of those checkable. Yeah i was gonna say we're all union self hating bloviating. Well yeah but we're in. The sub local of the bloviating is eventually done. Something in politics like mobile haven't And it was interesting because all this talk about okay and we're getting to the who controls the senate. I think you know as conservatives got my concerns about the democratic policy agenda. I'm happy because the first thing biden can do all by himself and he's totally equipped to do it is restore the old bipartisan consensus and foreign policy fix the atlantic alliance. Play the trade things smart. No yahoo ism Punish putin for misbehavior and in that happens in a day and that is hugely important. So you know regardless of who runs the senate that that is going to happen and i think frankly the republicans are going to support him in about ninety percent of it. So that's one big win out of the box. But i was gonna ask you that question murphy. Which is i think. I don't disagree at all. That biden will do all those things. The question is will will will republicans on those issues revert. Back to the mean. Oh yeah you know privately the number one thing particularly the senate ours the house guys you know they think afghans cat You know if they went to college. It's a blanket the steeled arthur finkelstein joke but it in the senate guys. All privately been horrified by a lot of the the national security decision. Making when the president ignores everybody does so. I think that's i mean there will be differences but it'll be nothing like the train wreck we've had trump and that's good. I have to say. I agree with you. And i think it's important but We're in the middle of a pandemic their deep economic problems a by had a pretty robust economic plan He's gonna have to pass a stimulus. Because i doubt that anything will happen with With trump in the white house now and he's going to be measured he's gonna be measured on some of these. I mean i think he can get along way on sort of tone character and so but eventually he's going to be measured by some of these economic pro health care. childcare could raise the minimum wage. I guess if he could persuade the senate to do it but he's going to be measured on the things that touch people's lives and not having the senate is going to make it a more a more difficult assignment. Oh no. I don't disagree with that. I'm just finding the benefit right now for the country's interest politically yeah i. It's going to be tricky. Because of progressives very starving. And by. I wrote this thing for the bulwark. Tweeted they beckon august and i can argue from biden's point of view having a fifty fifty or even plus one republican senate puts him in the middle of the action in a way if it were schumer impulsive with majorities. You know there was a danger. I thought it'd be a little bypassed. So were see the republics and the good side will be a useful foil to some of the progressives or say absence not reality now we can't spend two trillion dollars on this and that on the other side. Can he find five. Six seven pragmatic republicans. The romney's murkowski's collins the play ball or are the repub go lockstep into complete opposition politics. I think this is going to be. This is going to be a really hard few years to go through exactly this. 'cause i mean let's be clear. We we talked about the stimulus as it related to pre election. I mean the group that was no on any big stimulus. Before the election wasn't the trump administration and it wasn't house or senate dams it was republicans in the senate. The an i look i. I don't think this is any wild prediction. But you're going to start the clock on how many senate dams star all the sudden. They're very concerned about our debts and our deficits there and really. This is the amapa. Roy seasonal seasonal debt deficit hawk. Do you think trump might make a stimulus move on the way out is kind of an f you to the senate ours. I think you will think about it. I think quite frankly. If you're mcconnell you'd love to clear this out with the the probably schumer to clear this out with the old Yeah senate and congress. I think you've got a lot better chance than to walk in there and try to do it The beginning of day one. And they're better deal. Yeah hopefully hopefully. I mean i. I think that will be interesting to see. Look i think we also have to acknowledge to that that the central thing that biden talked a lot about this healing the the country the repairing of the soul. The nation is is a harder task today than it was just even a few weeks ago. This country got more and more and more divided in a pitched way the closer we got to election day and the days between election day and now Haven't done anything to bring it apart in. My guess is that it's going to take quite some time for you. Know more than seventy million americans even to accept the result of this election so this job got along well especially if the president keeps telling him that it isn't reading the results were not what would they were given me. He tweeted out this morning. i won by a lot and then left for the golf course. And everybody's analyzing what he meant by. Betty didn't win by a lot. I mean it's but one of the biggest shocks to trumpy. He gets back and all of a sudden. The new rule newsrooms across america trump is now gone from page a one page as six in terms of his. Now they don't have to cover everything he says because he's not the president now he is he. You know biden's the president-elect right and it'll move away from it all this is going to move away this will be is really jarring him. All this is going to move away from him and with lightening quickness ri- all the sudden you know he's gonna not only lose the ratings war and lose the ratings war to somebody who who he thought was half asleep But to your point murphy. They're just not going to care as much about his banging and clanging and he'll do a lot of that on the way out every utterances no longer news but yeah there's going to be a whole apparatus that has to get set up to run this new government and that's going leave him Would nobody caring about his opinions. You live through transition robert. I lift pm transition. We're lucky because we had an bush someone who is willing to cooperate. They were revenge. They really were great and Now biden can expect that he can you know i don't think trump's going to sort of a corrode his band by You know what. I making making a By by all of a sudden becoming cooperative and think that's going to happen. I here's my question. Did the new incoming biden administration. Do they who. Who do they call to set up. Meetings achieve staff has covert. Yeah i know. I mean i mean it. You know when you know you when we went through our transition. It was hand in glove. Yeah i mean it was. I remember going to the white house that day. And you know you've got five four four four presidents or former presidents and one president-elect You know each of us met with the counterparts that we would be those jobs we would be doing in in this administration. They couldn't have been nicer. They couldn't have meant you remember. Issues like transition funding for the auto industry to give president obama time to figure out what to do about the auto industry the national security stuff that we won't talk about on this podcast that ri- was discussed now. Let's check out the podcast. We'll talk about that. Yes but deep secrets. They're sending of coronavirus task force of their own biden. And they're gonna announce it monday. Who they deal within the government are is going to be frilled free to deal with them. There is gonna be the fall of saigon. Okay they're burning file cabinet. Somebody's trying to rescue a cat. You know it's going to be nothing. Like bush thing. But let's really. There will be a ton of informal. Reach out the professional staff and the agencies. I think some of the cabinet secretaries will there won't be a plan. But i think i'll bet you see a lot of informal back-channeling to try to one reason. One one reason that up people may they may get cooperation because trump may fire a shit ton of people. You know in the aftermath. Talk that he's gonna fire. Dr fauci that he he he certainly apparently is gonna fire. Dr burks who was pretty outspoken. In a p. She wrote right before the election. Chris wray the fbi director Go on a rampage here but That would free those folks to spend more time with biden task force. I guess i mean the good news is for america that you know somebody was telling me like well. You know if he doesn't if trump doesn't come to the inauguration. I mean they don't have the the t. Before inauguration i said do you think joe biden needs a tour of the white house. Like he's been there. I know he knows you know that old adage of like well. I'm still trying to find the bathroom. They know where that is. They've yeah those eight years there so that's a good thing. I agree with you though. There is that concern of those. You know those cabinet people meeting together those task forces. I mean this. Was you know this was in the in the obama transition to trump. This was where the hand off of the pandemic playbook happened. And then the trump people i guess used it for like you know a doorstop or something But the the the the mechanism of trans The the mechanism of this is just is really important because as we all know somebody gets sworn in at noon on january twentieth they become in a matter of moments. The person that makes all those decisions there isn't like a period of ramp up and they're going to inherit as i said problems. No president-elect is inherited for almost a century and as you say i agree. It's going to be crazy. And clunky hoc jack channel but the guys were coming in have played that piano before they know where the keys are and i will bet dollars to donuts. We will never know until the the memoir. I did it. My way from the university of kentucky press. But i'll bet mcconnell and biden have been back channeling a lot in the last forty eight hours. We'll agree to suit that produces because that's the grab a mcconnell's mcconnell's cook conclusion when he got elected was that We can keep him from accomplishing a lot. at improves our chances of getting the senate back and if we make him solve these problems by himself it's true he read to the daschle. Blueprint i mean. That's the problem. The senate only become a campaign device. But we're see you know. Mitch is smart. He's gonna look at fifty fifty or fifty one. We're see His problem is going to be all his young bucks. Run for president against kamla harrison for years. And they're going to be hard to control and they're going to try to inch out the trump comeback by doing trump impersonate. She's got a tough Situation because already you. You know people on the left or saying she's our go-to person she's right and you know. First of all biden is is. You know we know this. He's he's not. He's not medicare for all persons who wants to expand the a. c. as nada. No he's not where they would like him to be on some issues with a republican senate. There are limits to what he's going to be able to do but In some ways that's the answer you're gives them an excuse to say no. That was my point earlier totally. But she's the one who's going to be held accountable. Yes you know they. The expectations have been set that she will influence policy. And she's the one who's she's the only one of them between the two of them is likely to be on a ballot and twenty twenty four. So how she navigates that going to be really really interesting and like any election of president. I've been watching with some amusement that any group that can claim they put fifty thousand votes together is now on in the news media saying well. We delivered the white house so we brought our list. You know at our vet. We have a very long list. Starts with the secretary of the navy you know. And because we clearly but every every group is is pawn navy blazer than her. I i have my uniform award from scientology but close. I'm gonna try to make a ladder. Amtrak to i know gibbs i know you're after it but i think if you'd want florida you probably have gotten. Oh so cruel. Miami you know The one place. We didn't think we had a lot of grip but we thought the yeah everybody else would fix it said before we get a little florida story that nobody cares about because he lost. Look at the pan handle. We put up a bunch of man on the street military people. He's trump's one seven points behind where he was last time in the military communities and the military vote. Well here's the thing. Trump got a huge turnout in the rural areas But the fact is the biden did as a percentage he did cut. Trump's vote among non college whites From you know trump won by whatever he got thirty five percent by got thirty five percent. I think hillary got twenty eight percent He did cut his margin in In some of these small towns and rural areas i mean. His big makeup was in the suburbs. That shifted seven points in the up in in biden's favor but you know. I think there is an argument. That biden may be the only guy who could have one of all the people who had run who you know given the strength. We saw of trump absolutely biden's ability to reach Into places other people couldn't And the fact that. I couldn't demonize him to the extent they did and and people are looking for restoration. They're not looking for some radical reform. There they want the norms repaired. But the point is right. Biden fit the anti-trump thing better than anybody. Yeah absolutely now one thing before we go all league of women voters and tell everybody what they have to do to know that. You're gonna leave when you start that here. Yeah we did that. Going down to find a few more boxes in south philly just to be sure that in their just you guys made you talk about it and it worked. No we've got to Two days after they swear in the new congress they're going to have to statewide elections in georgia. Two who runs the senate and can we. Tv station pula nickels and dimes. Right now yeah and look. I mean talk about a date that has seen some amazing electoral change in the last ten or fifteen years Georgia is going to be a fascinating place to To watch this experiment And you know they've got a history of these runoffs and quite frankly republicans have an all an undefeated record in these runoffs so But the question you know. Lots of questions You know are the republicans will they be. Depressed Will that turn out be depressed because there isn't a trump on the ballot will trump tried to get involved and make this a little bit more. tatum's bongo home for one pm or see it as a place to make himself more relevant. Can you know. Interestingly enough. One of the statistics that i saw an art was reading In the atlanta journal constitution is in the two thousands when sonny perdue was governor The electorate was seventy percent white. Now it's fifty three percent white it's demographically it's an it's an amazing thing and what's always been hard in these runoffs for democrats is can you get the. Can you get the base. Vote back out and you saw a huge bass vote. I think it's gonna be too fascinating elections with a lot on the line in an interesting and fascinating state. Well here's a question for you guys. Let's pretend you're back in the white house you know. Nobody will work for biden. So he's down to you. Guys and chuck schumer is online one saying we got to run offs to grab everything. We need biden down there. We need him in this campaign pound. We won't get the out without the other argument. Whoa whoa whoa. we don't want a referendum. On our new president we actually had this billion. Are you know at a time when we can't control it because somebody loses because they make a clown move down there now. Biden has no exotic. That's on his academies mr partisan now which is not what we sold the country. But you're going to get pushback by biden's going to own it internally in the party do you try to own it s only or do you play it cool and say here's help you raise some money. Don't lose. I mean that's a really good question. And my guess is that he solves it by a sending sending kamla there right. That's what i do. I will say this because we were in actually this exact same meeting in around a massachusetts senate race. The didn't turn out so well. But i mean interestingly one of the things murphy is They're going to have to play the expectations game. Smart because it doesn't matter if by could move to georgia or joe biden could never go to georgia. And you know what. He's going to get a hefty amount of blame If those races don't come together and he'll get a hefty amount of credit if they do and it won't really matter some of it won't even matter what right so you send kamla you work on cova and you hope for the best and do everything you think. That's the answer. I look the odds against democrats. They're going to be very very high. It's all the reason guy said. And i think they're higher because by biden one and Yeah the that may motivate republicans more than more than democrats but we Seems to see what trump does in this race is also a parade of flawed candidates. 'cause kelly leffler is no No superkid when it senator. Who won her primary right billionaires or finished second and got into. The runner wore nakas pretty impressive. But he can. If you look at the three boats chunk wasn't as big as i would have thought it was. You got perdue. The world were stand up comedian and john also who gave them a good fight probably as the best shot of the two of them. But it's gonna it's gonna be one hell of iran and of course the whole republican vange crazed machine is going to be heading down there to make a stand and there'd be a competition between all the republican presidential wannabes to go get credit well. I'm sitting here watching the As we tape this On the background. The florida football game. Let me just say. And i say this very lightly attention here given that. I'm from auburn. But like. I'm a big georgia fan. These days as opposed to florida andor but the thing is that Just absolutely just backing off a second and looking at this from a larger lands democrat democrat taking georgia democrat. I think taking arizona. Arizona wait for the final numbers. That pretty big you know because one of the things it's gonna i mean first of all it's just to put a pin in that for a second. The loss of the six fights over the legislative chambers means republicans are gonna still have an advantage in redistricting ryan They're going to be because of the census shift of seats to the sun belt The ability of democrats to compete in the sunbelt states. It there be that you know that that the the mid the mid western states had ride in one are going to become more difficult because they are not changing as rapidly. They have an older wider population. But they're shrink of diverse. Try exact larger sunbelt states. You know now. The texas thing didn't come in trump ended up winning by what set seven or something. Yeah thank god. We call that one right. We did fall out that one up. We did one out of twenty two pick. Texas no no. I didn't fall for that crap. No this is always the democrat heartbreaker. But i do think that i mean they got a huge number huge number of votes out I keep an eye on texas but but we know that to came across the line here. And that's that's a that's a historic thing. And if you look at some of those western states democrats hold those senate seats in a in a way. They haven't in in seventy years. Yeah arizona numale. Yeah and that's sort of interesting. Look i think when when we when we take a step back as you asked us to do over the course of the next few years window behind. I know i don't wanna fall out because then i won't be able to watch the football game The I think both parties are going to have to take long looks into the mirror. Democrats will have have won the presidency and that will be good. Republicans will say we did down about. That'll be good but in reality that they both have some genuine weak spots that this campaign. There's again good things like georgia near zone. But there's there's some weak spots for democrats they gotta look at and you know murphy you and i talked about this over the course of the week. They've been eight presidential campaigns. Since or including. Bob dole's starting in nineteen ninety six and republicans have won the national the popular vote exactly one time in the campaign. So there's i think there's some interesting pressure points for each of the parties to really examine In the go forward time between now and next to rectify all this before georgia but as we lead into now twenty twenty two. Yeah the question is will be long or short term in santa's next republican presidential primary or facing the demographic reality which is python around our neck. We do have this problem. That continues to knaw at the democracy. Which is the population. Drift is too large metropolitan areas. You've got sparsely populated rural states that leverage disproportionate power Power in the electoral college power. Now that will you know that that to some degree as affected by changing population patterns. But still leveraging a lot of Power through the electoral college and the senate and You know biden will probably win the presidential race by you know between five and seven million votes and But you know may have his program stymied by the senate And you know we have to figure out if one hopes that we can figure out how to kind of return to a situation where there are. There is the ability to get some things done or frustrations gonna well up and it's going to overwhelm Public confidence and we're going to be buffeted from election to election between enraged people and anyway gibbs wasn't sufficiently legal voters so i i was gonna say you're topping him now. He's infected me. I would add now that you've opened the legal vote now. I shouldn't have done it now. Nine. but this is the Look what we're going to have to figure out we we in two decidedly different countries. There's a group of people today looking at the outcome of this. And and one of saying i can't believe we didn't beat this guy by fifteen points were the other is saying. I can't believe we didn't win this about fifteen and these two islands coexist on inside this country and there's no connection right to the other island and and look i. I think some of those connections are going to be hard but we better figure out as a country how to connect some of it because we gotta understand some of the anxiety of each side. We've got gotta have some of those discussions co k That is true. And the guy can make and i think understands this is the president elect but it means nixon to china because he he owns the blue half the question is how he can find some connection so the shot totally and that's painful politically because the blue half would like yeah. We'd like to get along on our terms. I agree i mean it's gonna that's compromise sides. Everybody wants to get along on their own terms. And of course democracy Requires everybody giving a little and that you know and the you know the reason that people part of the reason people on the blue side say are resistant to to this whole notion of compromises. Because they feel like they've suffered a tyranny of the minority. Yeah and and and the the red side says while the other party is all about avenging the minority. So we're gonna get avenged on as the new minority. That's why i hate this group. Ism in america used to be about an idea not grievance ranking between groups. But we're get onto that and meanwhile you see how you wanted us to get out of that legal stuff back. Yeah i just wanted to cap it quickly. One of my rants against identity. He felt himself getting sucked into sort clear. My mother was the president of the local rumors to that. Explains this i'm shocked. You'd be okay all right hamilton. one in hamilton. Why don't we get to the fabulous. Okay but i hacker ruse. If you have a question for the hacks email it to us we like your questions. We're excellent app at gmail.com that his hacks on tap at dot com don't forget to rate us on spotify or apple podcasts. At roy helps get the word out about our little Little caper here. I what do we have gibbs. Oh i've got a question for you mike. It comes from ben he asks What do you think that did well. of what success is. Are you proudest. And what do you think you could have done better besides predicting. Oh ohio and florida Yeah our prediction department needs of fine tuning. I'm very proud of bill. Kristol sarah longwell. Tim miller and everybody at our vet and the more than nine hundred republicans who made videos about why. They can't support trump that we spread out on digital. I think we were the fourth biggest spender on digital communications facebook excetera in pennsylvania and arizona. We spent a lot wisconsin too. So we're very happy. With our targeted campaigns that kind of gave republicans permission to do the right thing regarding donald trump. where we came up short was florida. We spent about ten million bucks So i'm not bloomberg junior though we work closely with them and they were great. We did well in west florida. We flipped our number. One county divall but down in miami dade man you know the just the numbers but hillary won that county good democratic county by twenty nine points back obama by twenty four joe biden will get to about seven and a half maybe eight percent so that that was a fastball. That got the right over the plate. And i think everybody involved in the florida democratic seinfield's That oh that was tough. No doubt all right gives rich asks when voting next january the senate runoff elections. How which is january fifth. How do you how do you think. Maintaining a divided government will appeal to the typical georgia. Voter is there. A desire to flip control of the senate and open the door to be more to to progressive policies. Well i e. You're you're touching on this idea. Of how much will party try to nationalize these georgia runoff elections You you you start with. The divided government appeal that. I think republicans will will try to make because control the senate will be up And i think absolutely that that will be a divided. Government will be the primary Or one of the primary messages for the republican party to maintain a check and balance on the incoming democratic administration of Joe biden in comal hair so undoubtedly that will be a big Message i think in some ways democrats will nationalize part of it. I'm not sure that will work as well But i i. I do think republicans will absolutely make that one of their top messages. Oh yeah they're going to be doing. Aoc aoc insurance That'll you're going to hear a lot of that in georgia or dr axelrod. Mohammed has been listening to his radio. Los lose yvonne people Mohammed wants to know why has ohio. uh-huh become more reliably republican compared to other similar states like wisconsin michigan and pennsylvania. What say you you know. It's really an interesting question and murphy since you were so hot on ohio i'm gonna wanna ask for by one ask you as well. It used to be a bellwether. Stay it used to be almost impossible to win a national election without winning the state of ohio. I think before this election That john f. kennedy may have been the last person to do that and virtually impossible for a republican I mean i can tell you. Generally that the the nature of these states as as older Whiter states have made them more adrift more in the republican direction I think there are characteristics of eastern. Ohio in terms of the economic Components of that part of the state that have become more difficult for democrats used to be reliably democrat union. No longer That way but murphy. You've done a lot of work in ohio. What's your view of it. Well i think you are right. I think like the feckless young romantic fool i am. I was seduced by some beguiling republican polling data in october that put a panic into the columbus. Gop crowd because it showed biden doing very well of women and cutting into non college educated people in eastern and western ohio. Even some the real stuff than in places like gummy county looking pretty good and it turned out not to be true. It went back to the model. You talk about more white more rural little older in trump sound tickets with the his core voters. You look at stark county. Which you know didn't flip back the great Bellwether county in ohio. So it it stayed. Words started and there really wasn't a lot of difference and so that that polling like so much proved to be a bad indicator. If it makes you feel any better. Mike dewine right before the election was on tv. Predicting even a narrow trump win ended up winning by eight. So you're not. The only young feckless lists person who was fooled by polling the Seventy five or whatever is zero seventy three year. Old governor of ohio was fooled by it as well. I can tell you the ours. Were worried because everybody was looking at the polling. I'm talking about the good news for our listeners. Is we got the hook. Atta murphy's mouth after swallowed it on this prediction so Everything's okay as you can hear this from the king of north carolina. All right guys. I thought we would go out today. With the salute. The president elect joe biden in nineteen seventy six when joe biden was in his second year as a fiery young Reform senator from delaware. This was on the airwaves. During a time of kind of good feeling in america coming out of trouble so i thought we played the old gerry. Ford jingle feeling good about america is it change. that's gonna change. That's great to see houston and time. I really wish listeners could have seen watching you to jomo. Stance make mickey. I can't thank god. We're audio only. And a salute to bob gardner the great edmund a that. I can't believe that murphy could get up on the table and things like that. That was really moves. Honky table held him all right guy. I want to just say before we leave. Thank you to everybody that worked on a campaign and thank you to everybody that helped count the vote this week. that stuff. This democracy in our republic Is stronger because of what people did in volunteering their time And in those those folks that that man the polls and canada's votes it we were frustrated as always that it doesn't happen as fast as it did but thank you for what you did. Hallelujah amen amen had to go league of women voters on you at the on. That one gives i give you a pass. 'cause you're absolutely right. It's incredibly inspiring and you know People in their people for who their own purposes people. I'm not gonna mention people who live in the white house who impugned These folks At by suggesting that somehow the there was only on toured about the process. This was probably the most transparent election we've ever had because the attention that was paid to it and it wouldn't have come off but for people all across this country who are willing to give of themselves to make it happen and yeah. It was a proud time for the country. So i'm with you on that. You can go league of women voters on that for everybody. Who has that story. That murphy just played stuck in their head for the next two weeks like i am Also email him directly boys. I'm feeling good about america. We're see you hecker is next time all right. Thank you for listening. Good to see you guys. Thank you love.

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Part 2: Tony Black, Steve Haskin

Thoroughbred Racing Radio Network

1:24:17 hr | 1 year ago

Part 2: Tony Black, Steve Haskin

"Braces with Steve. Big Horse racing handicapping interview. This is Steve. We're back our two at the raises and I promised Earlier earlier this week that we would get a an opportunity to get our last minute Christmas shopping suggestions in and and they did it on Sunday on television with Seth Mero and As the morning progresses Going to slip some come in and mention them all to you and of course Some visits during the the year and in fact in fairly recent most notably the Louisville story project. Better lucky than good CanNot virtually all of these cannot be recommended. More highly better lucky than good is so special and unique in this genre of equine literature as it were the stories from the back stretch of Churchill and young old riders and staff staff and horsemen and grooms and four men and the hot walkers every single. Walk a life on the back stretch. I is represented in this essentially an oral history not to be missed. Better lucky than good. Jennifer Kelly's book Sir Barton and the making of the triple crown. If you haven't gotten it yet should veep somewhat hard to believe because it's been been beating the drums. While while she was still doing research we were out in front of Sir. Barton has been really well received. And of course Jennifer unearthed information nations. Really had not made the press Previously and things about the early the early triple crown concept on Septa and the way it started a gain traction But it all started. In retrospect of course Sir Barton did commander Ross. They they didn't know they were winning the triple crown at the time But the Serb Barton and the making triple crown by Jennifer Kelly obviously obviously I'll also in this. I'm GONNA do these. You know. Every hour justify Lenny showman and the Lenny's Lenny's Lenny's official the end of his tenure at blood horse coming on really really thirty. I basically at the end of the year. But the Lenny's essential biography of of justify and Lenny. He was plugged into the justify story. Right from the start literally came into it after the maiden win because we were together actually out. It's Anthony when Baffert said to him. Do you want to come to the barn and the Derby winner whom he assumed was McKinsey. Kinsey was led to justify stall and from there Lennie Lennie was right on top of the story and and is relationship which got there as well as enters into it really It just a just just terrific. So there's the first three written suggestions and I'm also. I also occurred to me on Sunday with seth to direct everybody. Hey Buddy to greg. Montgomery's website the artist right because You want an easy quick present that so you know that doesn't take a tremendous amount of effort and you know is going to be very well received Well Greg Montgomery's art in most notably. You know the travers posters. That's what he's most famous for but there's other there's there's a few other pieces That you could consider but if there's a travers you've been to that you think I hadn't thought about previously to the year before the year after typically Montgomery's Montgomery's piece. The next year will reflect something about the previous travers in a lot of times. It's it's it'll be the finish I mean there's the the wonderful street sense let's grasshopper which is the two thousand and eight poster You know then there's some then some years it's something more Saratoga you know image But going all the way back to the beginning When when Montgomery when they first started to to have Greg Commission for this for this art It's wonderful. We've got I don't know I've got half a dozen And and I've taken to having them autographed by connections Nick Zito signed the bird stone. One which is one of my favorites the purple sky. And I had KARL NASCAR and in Wilkes sign the one I just mentioned street sense. And so that's an added. That's an added value to Gua drivers posters. Just Greg Montgomery do a greg. Montgomery search because he. He's kind of shop he's on like a shop. Affi- his website is sort of chiappa fi thing so that that's the easiest way and a lot of the gift shops at Saratoga. Oga have the correct Montgomery Art. So there's our first round and I'll give you a bunch more books and ideas for last minute. You can order them now today and you'll have them by Monday Tuesday and if you haven't finished your shopping needs emergency gifts. Tony Black standing by and Tony. The gift that keeps on giving I'm giving because can you And a segment that we did one day and I was talking about Jack. Van Berg Jack Greenberg got in touch with you and got my number and I gave him my address his book from Grit The glory and saw. That's because they use Steve because he heard me talking about Him Jack Guard me talking about him on the Radio One day and then he got in touch with you and he told me that's how he got the number to call me and I was so honored because you know Jack had a very positive impact on my business and he did send me the book and he signed it from the glory. The better luck even feeling good. What a title for A book that has anything to do with race track and and Racetrack experience One day when I was at the hall of Fame Amen Inductive for my Giulio standing right in front of a Bob Baffert you know what an interesting guy I mean. Not just 'cause he wins and he has great horses and done a great job with them but you listen to his interviews and you know he he puts it out there explaining can put it out there you know. He's benefited a lot from experience with quarter quarter horses. He's benefited when Learning how to Get worse is ready for racing and get them ready for some race prior to the one one that you're really aiming for you know you have them come over there and condition when it's the real deal one that you really want them to put it out there For you know in the prep race you get them ready and you don't want to absolutely you want him to win but not absolutely put everything out there so when they come over for the. Let's say the prep rep to the Derby and then the Derby you want him to be one hundred percent cranked and ready to perform optimally in the Derby. Something like that but I was. I was Looking at him and I'm thinking you know when there's so much strategy that people say Trainers having and a lot of what they do with their voices is strategy. So you know it's plans but in many occasion all the strategy goes by the wayside and better Lucky you then good explains a lot of that. I haven't read the book but the title explains a lot of that. You know There's a lot of things. Does that play into this business. That are unforeseen and not strategic planning and and it's luck. It's lucky it happened happen to work out You know and if you look back and say Oh yeah land that you know some of it is implanted isn't strategy it's locked but it's a great business and that's why we run these races because that's why sometimes pay the seventy dollars seventy dollars and some thank wait. You know you have to run the race to see who's the winner and sometimes the winner is the best for many gauge. And sometimes it's got the best correct so a lot of luck plays in business and it is a great business. Isn't it time you think you have it all figured out and then something happens to teach new give you AH yeah. That's for sure and speaking of of something happens. You got to address this Tony I got. I got two or three a fun conversation for you you you you saw this this. This whip exchange at gold fields else Khuttan and amador Kuptana had dropped his stick on the turn. And he's He's cruising by Silvio Silvio amador who is fading from contention and obviously says to. Can you give me give me your stick and amador does ah obviously doesn't think about it and handsome the stick and then the strange thing is who taught finishes finishes third finishes with interest but I didn't see couture Utah actually using the stick and so I don't know if he was if he was needing a chain of either wanted to tap him for a change or what he was doing but it's not like he you know was whacking them to get up in the final strides but obviously obviously. They shouldn't have done this and they get thirty days each. What did explain the people you guys are talking about and and I mean would you ever ask what you ever think ask a guy? Give me your whip. I wouldn't take desk but I had been in Added track where a similar incident occurred in early Seventies. And it was Nathan. Plotkin a buck doc. Boy and RJ Martin and RJ. Martin was just getting back on because John Mero the senior getting back on had been ruled off for several several years. Or I don't know if you know something to do with his writing and not writing them anyway. Just get back on. I don't know if you're familiar with. Rj Martin it. I want to leave riders in the country. I think the Guy Tony The guy the guy. I'm curious about though is they plotkin. I think I went to his Bar Mitzvah. Yeah well and we. I herewith appended ago. I don't think it was because I remember. I went down there after the garden state meeting. It was It was a laurel and I guess Nathan had dropped his stick and our jake offered him the use of his handed. It Over I don't know I don't I know they got Suspensions and fines similar to the one that was just handed out and stewards really frowned upon going. No place you know the done. The kid was the draft. You know it's a horrible feeling when you do your stick as a rider. I I didn't do it on several occasions but that was occasions where you came to lane or you're doing something you're switching sticks or you were doing something on your horse changing culture sure and that thing that thing leaves you. It's like your your heart drops out of your your mouth the L. You. It's it's a horrible feeling even if it's not a horse that is You know really responding terrifically to the use of the crop. But it's just a horrible feeling line right off the bat if you get be it's GonNa even if you think it caused you a lot of you know if it didn't cause yours it's much performance to drop it but you know that you're GonNa get accused of but it is a terrible feeling but You know what in l. something like this occurs. I it it it. You can't do it you know. It's just not something that happens every day and you can't do it. You can't have another judge but it does displace some sense of camaraderie lottery. You know that we're out there competing and we're trying to take each other's wins away from them and trying to you. Know in a highly spirited bearded manner Keep the other jockey and horse from beating your horse but when there comes a point at times where we have had the opportunity to help each other. We do try to help each other. And it's not so much to win. I've seen riders. Make an attempt to to help another writer because the rain was busted. You know and you know there was a hazardous dangerous situation drop. The stick is a dangerous situation but it does this place of Camaraderie. But it doesn't set well when it comes to the visibility of doing something like that to the public and of course there the official. Yeah can't do it. I can't say this and I'm going no place as you know what you can actually say you were going no place after you cross the wire and galloping out and you come back and you can tell the person if you want to be. The doctor knocked give the An owner or trainer some insight and how they're performing event. I came down the stretch. This was was empty. I couldn't get into you know Go on and do any more than what he was doing. But you can't come down the stretch you know come standing up on them and say well it's over. He's he's not doing anything he's done but it and it doesn't sell well to the public when they see you're giving up before the wire you have asked to ride to the wives to pass the wire. I always hate to see riders start to raise up five jumps wire and half the time. It doesn't not more than ninety nine percents. That doesn't make different but it doesn't sell well to the public you're out there. They're betting their money. And you're supposed to give optimum optimum one hundred percent hundred ten percent of whatever performance when you and get your most out of your horse you know but it's almost almost carbon go when these things do occur. They don't occur regularly. You know somebody handed the stick. But I'll never forget this Nathan Plotkin and the art art the Bug boy. Oy and the old rider coming back after Several years suspension Martin and that occurring and. I'm begging Jay was just being friendly. Do another job. So here's a young kid. I'm helping you know. I feel bad for him. I know that feeling robina stick. It's it's an empty feeling goes on take mine. I'm done. And that's the way they came back to the Jacksonville and you know when they came back to the Jackson nobody even I said anything That they thought there was a severe infraction until the stewards called down. They said you handed you know they. They looked at it. Viewed it several times on the rerun and and then they add movies the next day and I can remember standard at the movies. Listen and You know they they both were reprimanded and suspensions and fines. It's the only thing that is Only option that is left with the officials. They have to do that it is. It isn't a race fix scandal or scheme that was ongoing it was just a gesture of Camaraderie and he goes son on done. And that's what it was that day and I'm sure that's what it was recently. Now you can say would you watch the replay. The what they you know you see jockeys gotten very competitive You know and they come down stretch. I've also seen at parks. They were a couple apple rider. I couldn't think of the names right off the bat. They came down the stretch. And they're they're using their sticks but it isn't on the horse. Join each other it out. You know this is supposed to be used to help you an horse advance not to be used to strike another shot during the running. Now I'll tell you one day. There was a jock coming from waterpark. AH WE'RE RIGHT AT PIMLICO was really messy day. I'm coming down the stretch and I'm striking my horse. And he's right is worse. I I think he's been hurt. And I've been a second one. I came back to the jocks Ruben. I'm trying to think this boy's name was a big guy too and and I get a more space in the bucket of Diet and I get a tap on the shoulder I turn around and I get sucked when thinking. What's that that? I can't think jocks name. I mean he likes to knock me out big I choose gig reducing jock and I know his navy comfortably. It's not gonNA come to me right now and we know what the hell happened. Alex grabbed him. They grabbed me and the little skull when it was over. He's when you you come down to me not your horse and believe me you know what when you're coming down the stretch. There's a possibility it strikes somebody but it can be just strictly by accident. And he didn't know who I was and I wasn't that kind of a rider and I didn't know him and he was riding coming from Waterford. You know mountaineer whatever. What's what's at the time and I've been in the scuffles the most the time you know you did something wrong? That time didn't even know I did anything wrong. But you know what it's it's a very highly competitive physically physical support. Sometimes things happen that you did not plan on have happening. I didn't play on this guy. He took it personal in any showed me how personally crack man the side of the head almost knocked me out inch did you ever. We do see certainly seen incidents where guys grab a stick out of somebody's hand and when they have the chance to kind of yeah. I've seen that a couple of times You know you're going to see that would get overly competitive and maybe they still even have thirsty. But let's say they're coming down the stretch you're hitting left handed. He's hitting right handed. You're on the outside and You know you might even not I'd seen and I had it done to me and I've done it. We are sticks met and I you know. Knocked his stick out of his hand or stick out my hand the next time he brings it up you wanNA grabbed his stick because he just lost yours. You know when you're in close quarters like that You can lose a stick slickly by you're coming up to hit your horse and he's coming down to hit hit. What are you sometimes when the sticks and in tangle one of you or both losing maybe both your walters but good gents one of you're gonNA lose it when he was coming down the others coming up you know it's It happens things happened out there But the hand and the other stick to another job. I haven't done that but I have seen it a few times. Yeah I guess. Most of the time it's just a show some camaraderie. Look I'm going no place. He goes on from an aide to the student. Tony the the the other stick we discussed last week. Extensively about the rule. Changes being being considered and You Know Uh California settling on six a total of six Six taps and they gotta be underhanded. You can't raise above your shoulder. Is that enough. Do you think that that the that's going to be an adequate compromise And that it'll look better header to the casual public. Yeah look bad or is it going to serve the total purpose of what you have a stick in your hand for. You're not going to limit you. You know when you can't caucus stick it's hard to show to a horse when it's uncovered you know you can flip it forward but it's not the same as if you wave it and showing it to him and sometimes showing horses stick you know. Let them see it with your with it being caught We'll help you. Guide them even notice stickers and the steering device can assist you in Steering Orange Bowl or try to get in or get out The untapped and the you. Yeah you know I. I don't go really for that. I do say well if you WANNA limit the use How many times you can strike? Come and wait for a response before you can strike again. I can go for that when when I was in Indiana Grand Racetrack and casino. I was up in Stewart. Stand and I would We were there for jockeys jeans With Barry Harry Perl and few of us for benefit. This must have been two years ago. I guess The steelers were up there China and I'm watching him after the race and all the during and after the race on its official racers official. Yeah time and they're doing it before the race. The official two they were monitoring the use of the stick by each ride or any chores on each choice. And I 'cause I asked him I said what are you guys looking at. Now this is well monitoring monitoring the still use to see how many times they strike. I may times they strike before they go back to prompt in and then strike the horse again and they were very diligent in looking for you know proper use of the step and I thought you know what that's good I think at the time they just implemented the rule It might have been three times and then wait for before you can hit them again and I know what Oh you know what. That's that's good that's adequate but when things happen in California your Is doing things more or less underdo. Interesting under pressure believe me. That's the impression I get you know but it just my own personal opinion If you think stick us is going to relax. Lack of sticks is going to assist in some way to alleviate breakdown. You're lost in space. Got Nothing I'm very little to do with breakdown you know Jockeys Education and knowledge of how And and and Use of the state and maybe at times need to pool awards up. That's GonNa you know pulling up and getting they're I'm not traveling or something that's happened during the running of the race that it's giving them some discomfort for up. That's what you'd that'll help eliminate breakdown lasix then ain't gonNA help bill. And then they play Geico you know. It's not gonNA help eliminate breakdown. But if you have people up there monitoring like I said before monitoring the junkies and he uses you. Don't need special Ashley Wills. Now you can pull them up. That's the Stewart job. But if you do have special rules you know. Of course you WanNa make sure that they jockeys adhere to those special world and you know sometimes it's going to be Because of habit and because of rioting over the years on a particular style that you have you're going to have to really adjusted and you know what better adjusted I don't agree with not cocking a stick and I do agree. That could be a certain amount round of strikes or times you can use the stick you know so many times. You know you're gonNA hit three times. Wait for response before you can hit again something like that. I agree with that but not copying stick at that's BS. You Know Blind Bowl with me. There's two things I'm going to do if I can't use the bit and my strength to keep them straight. I'm going away his stick down to try to get them to come in. Let's say if he's trying to Paul and I'm GonNa tap him on his nose when the soft fleshy she part of the nose to see if I can change his mind and he's not going to go through the outside that I've had him go through the outside the inside bench and that was with the property. You know With the use of the stick it happens okay. Their house in pounds root for strength. And I'm one hundred ten pounds you know you've got got steel bit. You Got Rubber bits or you got all different kinds of equipment but you know what you can't change the equipment in the middle of the running of the race that something has to be properly the Put on or you know I've had situations where you you don't check things out you get out on the racetrack. You leave the gate and yeah you know and A nose was too close behind a bit and it takes away from the pressure. You put them but now that's not the groups or the trainers thought. That knife fought on the guy to join the worst. You'd make your. The equipment is in order and properly installed next courses head in his mouth but things happen you know. Oh you don't jerk every detail. Sometimes even though you're jockeying on your back on on their back and you should but I think they're overplaying this Stick Dick Use or misuse. And I think what you just need to do is have people monitoring the race that no you know the way it should be used and should be conversation between Stewart's jockeys every one of them down they don't you can strike them. Yeah I can go for that but that talk in the state so only finally I appreciate that finally D- I don't know if you heard if you were available on Monday or caught up with it later but I was really pleased I never had a visit with Reko Diq. Selva and Sunday was his last day in the irons and and really a fun visit at the celebrate is his fine career after he came to North America and here he is at forty four and he's doing wing it so that he can really be attentive of two young children and he's got a second career already started which is dealing with the athletes pro athletes and helping them maintain confidence and mental Strength Fascinating Guy and I a a lot of ways a little. I think a little under rated given what he accomplished and what fifteen seventeen years in North America was Read some articles that You know Talking and telling what he's doing what he's going to plan on doing and I really give them a lot of credit line. You know you decide your your family and your career. You know you're putting your family. Of course I all the time then you always should And then but you also need to have a livelihood or something that can create generate income. Because you WANNA do right by families. Sometimes it takes a little financial wellbeing to do right. And and you know what when it comes to mentoring athletes. Believe me being jockey. Even I know people don't look at us like we're You know generally speaking all the horses. Doing you're just up there. That's because they don't understand what a jockey's The physical part of what a job he does on his back is or tablet written that type of situation you know competitive race horses and races. No I've known people get a chance to do that. But a highly physical athletic events for horse and Jockey and jockeys at some of the athletes out there. And if you're doing ruin things right you're GonNa make sure that your In one hundred percent you know peak condition now when it comes to mentoring someone what it better as. We have mentoring a kid or young young athlete. You know when it comes to one thing that I learned You know through high school wrestling being in wrestling and then being one of the things that I really have to deal with and and it might take years or they don't even know that they have to to deal with it. If it's not pointed out anxiety is one of your one or any athletes biggest At times problem problem competitor drawback anxiety variety is something that you let it get the best view. It just takes away from your overall a physical ability to perform mental anxiety. Waste your physical frank. Raise your place your physical ability and until jockeys You know they learn that some of you learn being before you have OTA Horse. I learned it at the end of my wrestling career. And then being a jockey in a few years you know what a lot easier to do this if you're up there and you remember to do two things relax and breeze 'cause being jockey you don't use rilot when you're in your either your career starting out you don't get right one a day you know when you're riding by six races seven eight rates. I've had a day I can remember. I wrote sixteen races night and day. You know Keystone D'Amato you better better know. How do you yourself officially and effectively? You better learn and know how to control anxiety and waste of energy you better At each time that you're writing and performing an optimal level you remember one thing breeze you know fuel fuel that that you're you're breathing rate or like the like the old forty nine flat sex. It had a cigarette. Iro carburetor. Got Reiter wasn't a just said it would backfire and sputter wouldn't go no place so I have to learn how to do that now. But Jockey's learned out that as a jockey. He can certainly teach young a young athletes how to do that and make them perform. I don't care if it's baseball football basketball. Whatever sport wrestling teach them at a young age? You know and and they'll be better athletes mature into better athletes. We wish Rico the best In retirement and does an ex career and Tony wish you and Kylie and the kids and the family extended your mom and everybody I hope it's it's a wonderful Christmas. It's been a another great year Extend everybody our best wishes and the let the let the listeners Said said give them your best wishes along with first off. You know we're all you do and thank you. I WanNa thank you and I also WanNa wish you and your family that that's the policy. It's a great time of year brings families together. I also want to weigh the happy holidays. Could through who at great lists are great lesson of this program. You know it's It's a great program. I want to see people enjoy horse. I racing I WANNA see him. Enjoy of course a holiday and your family and the Bambi all year round. I WanNa see you enjoy it When it comes the horse racing want to see a enjoy the competition between riders and horses? Out there I want this list to pick a lot of winners. And if you've betting on them wow you're catching a lot of tickets but even if you just enjoying the view of a highly competitive athletic event horse racing Come to the tracks. See See what it's all about. Allow get up close and personal with the horses and jockeys scrape business. But Steve Thank you so much for all you do for the sport and positive that you put out there for people to enjoy about this squad you take care. It's always a pleasure and happy holidays to everyone. Why don't we love you and is going to make it a great twenty twenty and Tony's GONNA probably add his win total in a new decade. It'll be your resistible to have winners and yet another decade. I knew it. I know it was more winter. Fifty two thousand twelve. That would be nice round number and a couple of years. We're only a year to have from seventy. I'm sixty sixty nine seventy and I'd like to have one winner in the year. Twenty twenty one. I'll be seventy years old. Oh how about that. You're not putting it past you. Might you take care at the holiday. Great thank you to toby. Not at all the greatest Odi black everybody wanted to just that institution I mean it is. It is Thursday on at the races and the Thursday lineup has been unchanged. For fifteen years. Tony Black Steve Askin and rich. And we'll get the Steve Next Steve asking the rich and the follow and before we wrap up today good to talk to Doug Danner. We haven't talked to in forever. Unfortunately I my certainly a pleasure to be able to reach out to Doug. I think I think the last time we talked is probably free thinking when he had nice. EXPRE- thinking that and boy that's ten plus years ago and Doug Danner has got a mayor that he owns that is making her one hundred eighth start tonight at Turf Way Prom theme and I saw I mentioned the Oh wellings wellings yesterday. Well Hunter will welling. She noticed that and tweeted. And it immediately caught my eye and knowing that we haven't even spoken to dog in too long I reached out and Doug will join us right Near the end of the show and talk about the mayor that he claimed aimed for I think eight thousand and she is spent the next six years. I mean when you've got a horse in the barn for six years straight I it it special and she keeps winning and keeps that has. It's been remarkably competitive. She's going after win number twenty tonight She's a noble causeway G. You look at her record you look at her. PP's which print out out of three pages. We're GonNa Talk Doug Tuition Block tonight with Prom theme as well. Let's take a break. Haskins joins US next with his year. End Send off back after this. It's apple races with Steve on Sirius. XM radio what's going on. Mike and I'm GonNa tell you about had an offer for my good friends at express but let's be honest. We know you love playing the racist but you can't always make it to the track. Sometimes life just gets in the way of a good bet the what if I told you about a place where you're never miss a bed and you start with house money. It's am crazy right now not express your first one hundred twenty five bucks on on them. Sign up and express DOT COM Promo Code. BIC THAT'S B. Y. K.. And you'll get one hundred twenty five bucks when you wage a five hundred within your first I thirty days see what I mean house money just for playing the racist you were going to anyway check out express dot com for more information and don't forget to sign up using Promo Promo Code Bic B. Y. K.. To get that hundred and twenty five dollar bonus he gonNA love it. And that's something. mikey guarantee. Conditions apply must Wednesday's eighty seven. Kevin expressman ellison research activities void where prohibited National Gaming Support Line. Eight hundred five hundred forty seven hundred the business of horses in the world's only only accredited equine business program the University of Louisville Equine Business Program. The University of Louisville has a legacy of excellence for more than twenty five years of equine quite business education. Classes are taught by industry experts in state of the art facilities located in the heartland of America's Equine Industry the University of Louisville Equine and business program. When it comes to horses we mean business for More Information Visit Business Dot Louisville dot edu slash equine? The North American folk crop continued unused to decline but not here in Pennsylvania in two thousand and nineteen our number of mayors braid increased for the third year in a row this time by twelve and a half percent saying why are stallion roster continues to grow we have the best incentives and bonuses plus. There's the stability of Racehorse Development Fund. Why breed anywhere where else this is Brian? SAN FRATELLO GO TO PE DOT COM and see why Pennsylvania is the premier place to breed in race. And now back to at the races with Steve Vic on Sirius. XM radio in one more so when our fields we go laughing all the way avails on bobtail making spirits commits. Brian is to ride and sing singing songs tonight. Oh Jingle Bells Jingle Bells Jingle all the way Oh it is to ride at a one horse open sleigh Gene Goo Bells Jingle Bells Jingle all the way advanced it is to write on one horse open sleigh now ground is white Go at while you're young. Take the girls tonight. Saying this theme Song Bob Hill about forty areas. How's his speed day to crack? You'll take lied about that. Who knew who knew there was another it was a whole nother stanza lyrics the how about that Diana a crawl if I'm not mistaken and You could catch your Steve Haskins. Isn't that that you could see Haskins sort of in Vegas that I wasn't Vegas catskills. Here you go that was Nick Apollo Forte. I taught him that with the with the Mike from hand to hand back. Ah The jingle he was on the hit parade for ten minutes Repertoire Jingle Bells and think Oh my God yeah you know who contributes mutes. This conversation is the Dave Joseph Joseph and John Pirata if you put the two together you'll hear the entire script ripped of Broadway. Danny rose really unbelievable is hysterical. Every time I every time I see today you know I don't see you playing gin joints. I see you in colleges and universities folding balloons my favorites everything when he was windy with the The agent you know upper forty second street. They're trying to sell those act. Yes exactly my my one handed in by one arm one. I'm juggler exiling the blind designer phone player. What's her name that plays the the glasses My Hand to God not a lesson the next year Carnegie Hall. I mean the whole team in the in the stage stage Deli. Monica on Ika. What's his name was inside? He was in. He was in Seinfeld. He played the old crotchety. Actually the guy from Florida. Oh what was his name. Well they're all comics jazz. Yeah it was one one comic. I can't remember he was he was big at the time. When with young regular on Seinfeld is not Jackie Gayle The one that was in the one that was also in a dime it was in Ten men ten men he he had he had a brief part in in I take the mine goes to Jack. lemmon movie Jack Lemmon movie where everything goes wrong in New York City which well there's a couple actually. Well the the the serious or the comedy comedy. Oh excellent killing to oh well the and and I Jackie Gayle is one of the comics right and more Gandhi Gandhi. Well the the guy I'm thinking of. But he had a brief part he played the guy who tried to chase. Jack Lemmon out of the church. When he went into pray at the end of the movie it was really big at the time to? He's big back in nineteen right now. We're GONNA this is is going to be tough. We're going to have to well. We're going to have to go to the towners I've had towners. Yes yes yes. Yes and he was big at the time they gave a before coach. Jack Lemmon you gotta get out of the Church. If they were filming a commercial or something and I I. Haven't you know that that's a movie to go back and see you know when you first said when everything goes wrong I did you ever see Save the tiger. Oh yeah well that that that that was that was like his first dramatic role. I mean after all the comedy did was walked Matthau and odd couple and movies and all of a sudden he does save the Tiger hiker which was a downright depressed very very upsetting very upsetting film And and the heart just heartbreaking. Nobody nobody nobody had ever seen that side of the Czech Levin before the thing is you know getting back to Broadway. Danny rose wondering great scenes. I mean I mean it was a great thing but it was such a sad scene in a way Not only with not only with the with the character. Ah Danny Rose and all of his action everything but the whole the whole thing about about loneliness when they're treating living in Swanson's TV dinners as if the best Thanksgiving it's the best. It's almost it could as the real thing. Lloyd Loyd. Who's telling him in the car? She says he's talking about old boyfriend he says Got Shot in the blind right. uh-huh yes loo- wasn't positive was a shell station. Yes the greatest the absolute greatest movies that people don't really talk about much absolutely brilliant movies wanted Daniels and the other is the front. The front is one of my absolute favorite films of all time. Not which is our favorite. Woody where we you know that last line where you could see. He has no way out. He has absolutely no way out. So he's GonNa he's GonNa go out with a bang and he goes and any see any and he gets up tells everybody you know. Go to have fun to yourselves Alves. Yeah I mean I mean it's just it's so it was like a it came as such a surprise but I mean the the movie was so it was so inspired by by everybody who who started the movie and made the movie everything we're all blackballed Blacklist blacklisted the correct. Virtually Martin Ritt Martin Ritt who directed a zero mastel. Yeah Yeah that suicide scene was God unbelievable. Well they out the scene the scene the scene when you know when he's up in the catskills is the minimum amount of money and just yeah. I mean I've done some very very disturbing scenes. Yeah it was like it was by the way after after Annie Hall which you know this you know any holes coming after. Take the money and run and bananas and all these sleeper. And all these crazy movies I And then he goes on and then he wants doing interiors and you say what the Hell is this. I saw that movie I did. I saw one time and it is depressing. Waste well it Ah Comics comic moment. So the the front the front he only he only acted in I it it was not made I mean he he. He didn't write her direct right. I know he just acted But but I was was just had the one of the great HYPOCHONDRIAC saints where you know he's always imagining something and he's complaining to his secretary. Yeah well you know I I got a scare you know. I had this the spot and she goes on your shirt. All right I got I got. I have to pull us both up. Because we're we're as usual who are off nothing racing anyway. Well well. That's not true but the weekend coming up never answer me about my offer still stands by the way I and and you know what I got the email and then I forgot what what are what are what was the final. The final offer this Dallas Win Sunday which they will assured Judge Dinner Danny or maybe knows. Ao or invited okay. All right strange reason eagles win but if I win if I win the Bat which I'm sure I will. I'm giving you a big out. I'm giving you a double or nothing of where. If if you lose the bet I will then give you a double or nothing bets that the cowboys win the Super Bowl. The seven thirty two one right now and have been twelve playoff teams. They're ranked number nine in in the is in the is the ninth best arts. It's so it's up to you if you want if you want. If if the cowboys don't win the Super Bowl and then we're even if they do then it's dinner At Danny and no I'll I'll yeah Alex summer and I'll take that I'll extend I'll I'll extend myself awesome. Give me out chances. Are you know most people are gonNA say there's no way to cowboys. You'RE GONNA win the win the Super Bowl. But I'm giving you that out that says 'cause I this. I think they might shock people this year. So I'm getting I'm willing. I'm willing I'm willing to do that. It'll give you give me a chance to get out of your. Your initial loss. Legal should not win. They have no team left. And the cowboys are I mean. It was just so far superior it just keep talking Steve. You're GONNA talk yourself you're GonNa talk yourself right into a buzzsaw. Just keep keep keep go on keep talking keep talking keep talking Jerry Jones. Go ahead all right shoulder so I I. I was very pleased that the birds are in position to at least have a shot and They they could've sold out last-minute it wins against the giants and the Redskins and I say one thing by the way it's amazing by the way football he's number one draft picks and he's first round draft picks and all the stars coming from the practice squads coming from you know. This was a Boston. Scott and ward. I mean we're have these guys come from Greg Ward like Antonio Brown. There's a lot to be said and the same is true. Same's true to some degree with it. Could have this conversation about jocks. You know ah the separation between top level. Talent and production is pretty narrow. Ah Guys that are hungry and I mean the Greg Ward story is so inspiring that you can't say enough huge star at University University of Houston and and he's had a great many opportunities and he's come very close to making a a roster and you know Ah here it is. And it makes the most of the opportunity. He's got the physical gifts in the arena. Here's a great quarterback at us a tremendous quarterback and just say you know I'm always guys by the way they are in the seventh round draft choices around you. Know the unsigned practice squad yet only starts. I mean they come from anywhere. I mean that's why the draft is like so crazy. You know you. Taking a shot gotten a lot of exciting. You never hear of again. Well did you guys come up from from come from nowhere. Well did you listen yesterday. Did you hear the conversation with good good for him so all right well dave good friend who you know who's been binding years. He and he talked about mental toughness and about mental attitude. And what have you know. What a mammoth part of of success or failure? And you know if we've got enough examples of of of professional athletes that clearly have the talent and wash out and you got the flip side. which is guys that that may be a cut beneath in terms terms of physical gifts but they make up for it With with mental toughness. And you talk about draft went went to the draft the whole thing with with being drafted in being noticed it. It's some of. It is just happenstance Mike. Piazza Y- Mike. Piazza drafted as a favor to lasorda. And and look look at that career. I mean breaking Boston's got. What is he like? Five six Walid rallied. There's a there's a long history guys like him. And and you know whether it's whether it's a Darren sproles type or Yeah exactly actly. Those guys those guys work because they that was the one. That was the one smart thing that that Booger McFarland said. on on this is the one thing that made sense i. I had not really watched too many Monday night. Games this year I now. I understand why everybody nightly every Monday night sends out a volley of tweets. It's about crazy silly things that he says but he did say one thing. I thought Monday night was really quite accurate. About how guys like of Austin and Scott they they get obscured and the defense sometimes just loses track of. Oh sure Houston running back. They call the bowling ball. Can't can't remember his name but he was like he was really stocky but it was like five six. But you know we stock doc and nobody could find him Garcia Lineman until opening nickname game with the bowling bowl. Speaking of Dave good friend by the way I actually hired him wants to do a handicapped feature for the when. I was editing. The Breeders Cup Souvenir Magazine magazine. How long ago? This was I'M GONNA say like around two thousand. I was in one to somewhere in their early two thousands so it's quite a while ago but I mean I I I want I want to do a handicapping column about handicapping the Breeders Cup and Yeah Yeah and so. I hired him to brought to write it. Nice speaking of writing. Let let let me let me shift gears. And I've already given one round of of of the last minute at the races gift guides. These are for desperate people call for desperate measures and that means Jumping on Amazon and elsewhere Steve I've already mentioned in this first round. That Book from the Louisville Story Program. Better lucky than good. I mentioned Gen Kelly's books are Barton Lenny of course with justify and Greg Montgomery with his artwork. What books the you want me to include clued for people to be aware that they could get the last minute anything I would? I would include the Peter Leaves Book unspectacular spectacular bid and Of course like the one you mentioned if you haven't read them you know your history buff if you have to read Jennifer Kelly's books So Barton And of course if you know if you're more into modern racing Eleni did a great job would justify both of which I wrote the forward. So coincidentally coincidentally coincidentally And I have black and have it back. Cover blurb on the League's book on specs speed. So you had a busy. You had a busy year on other in front. Oh my more books than anybody but I know that you you really enjoyed The Caroline Rosner piece on stymie out of the clouds. Oh that's my thing that's one of the great Yeah I mean that's that was one of the great books and you know I'm on facebook. Linda Carroll a lot to I mean but they both did an incredible job with that book. Anybody who hasn't read that book. That's one of the best racing books you'll ever read and and I'm not just talking about if you're into racing history. I'm talking about it for the history. 'cause everybody's in that book and you know in in a very closely related way You know from some Damon Runyon to Al Capone into J. Edgar Hoover I all the people that were associated associated. Somehow with is he be as you'd be one of the great characters of all time Who is was like the quintessential Damon Runyon Character And how how close church was the Damon Runyon and what a sick was play. He was yeah I you know I mean he. He put his own name aim in in the American English vernacular you know when you talk about all their run. You Nets characters and you know some of the great Some of the great movies that have Data based on a Damon Runyon wanted a great joy. And go if you want to rent one horse racing movies that was based on it A Damon Runyon Story which is absolutely hysterical. Moving was Avenue Castillo in. It Ain't Hay story about the kidnapping horse named tea biscuit but there was some. There is some very tender moments in their Jerusalem Abacus stellar routines data data at a row. Just classic that it just absolutely hysterical but and then there's actually a a glimpse you can actually see the front of the Grand Union hotel in in the In the movie. But it's a fun fun movie and inspect your based on And you know on the Damon Runyon story as so a lot of amazing stories but Damon Runyon is a major part of out of the clouds. As you'd be it was just a tough hard nosed New York Street kids it was. It was a brawler. Yeah I remember him. You know in the later days it was an old guy. You know her her takers and is cheaper. They owned all the horse is owned all the horses together. You know under the door people but I never knew that he was such a roughneck beaten up. All these beat up all these mobsters All these tough guys and get into all street brawls to team up with with Hirsch Jacobs who is who who was who raised pigeons up on the rooftops in Brooklyn and you and use the whole theory of raising and racing pigeons to to Rachel insists that he at the beginning he knew nothing about but I mean and closer to end the story. J. Edgar Hoover Hoover and how closely was How J. Edgar Hoover and her check? It was so successful that they haven't done it together and her Jacob and Can't go with total cake. Just want you to know by the way that for like six months Most most most of your grooms Sir exercise riders. We had we infiltrated to your barn to investigate you and you came up completely clean. You know so I mean we know it's a gay guy who actually planted grooms and forming the I mean exercise riders and You know stable help to spot to the report back to him. But I mean fasting stuff like I said Al Capone is in. There are others. I'm forgetting about but it just so well told And the whole first part of books mostly about Jacob's Bieber and and all the characters in the second part of the book that's when stymied comes into it and if you don't notice story Stymie Johnny it's a classic star fifteen hundred dollars claim He was he was. He was strictly a claiming trainer and he was legally lead the country but each 'cause he wants him often but it was mostly claims and then it comes up with Would Stymie and he became the first train it to become you know not only two but probably the most influential runner most influence. The breed is in history. Two lines of You know of of choices you know from you know go through with Meiringen searching priceless gem and you know the whole line And all of great marriage that he's read over the years so I you know I I can say I don't even remember the tail end of of I jacobs you know before he died but Great great stuff I mean really was how does it allows you know he and his his son his son took over in the hurt. Jacobs died early in the year and and and his son John who nobody even knew anything about he basically took over that year and became one of the few trainers Very few trains even to this day. Who wants to triple crown races? With two different horses he win the preakness would personality. And the Belmont was. Hi Sean but it was. You know you contribute at the heritage. But John Jacobs was listed trainer for for both of those horses that was back in nineteen seventy And Brooke Nominal Phenomenal Book. It was really one of my favorite mentioned passing. You mentioned in passing two. That's that's out of the clouds. Caroline Rosner spectacular bid. You mentioned the the kidnapping theme with with tea biscuits. Well we should include Ludmila Toby's book taking sure are making sure I was just gonNA I. That was my that was the next one. I was going to mention which just won a big award. equis Brooke Awards WH- won for best Best towards book. Oh Nice and you know. It's funny because I know it's funny. You mentioned awards. The the Tony Ryan Award was that does anybody that hasn't come out yet. Okay basically would be probably Jennifer Kelly belly vs well. There's there's also the finalists. There's I think six in there including one one of the other books that I want to mention. I'm pretty sure that I know out of the clouds in there because I brought it up the other day with with set. That was year right. No I don't think so. I think that's an that's in this year's semifinal that's one of the semifinalists Tawny Only Ryan book or I thought it was or was that from last year book came out like two years ago was okay. I'll I'LL CHECK I. I'll let me let me see here if you if you if you know mill. Toby also wrote a By a biography on Kenya narrow a few years ago. So if you WANNA run if you want to read about one of the great stories in the history of voice racing one of the most amazing stories get his book Kenya Narrow. I wrote the forward to that book too two. That's a sideline you've got he baked he basically he based the book on a lot of my articles. I wrote so many articles told the story of Kenyan era when nobody ever told story at the research so he had read all my right column. Roll my stories on Kenya narrow so we went and and and did a book on but listen I remember bill probably goes way back back. Sylvia Sixty in the blood horse. Maybe maybe early seventies but I remember when Bill Toby wrote for the blood was way way package you know so. Oh He's been around for a long time absolutely One of the it for awhile and it came back and started writing books. Well He. He's got the image story about the whole dancers immature scandal. We and we've had him on for all these. Yeah the we've had him on each time uh with each of his anything. That's come out and we had a great conversation about the answers. Imagine and had Peter Fuller on as well but well he also Milt also Does the the equine law Books he's got a he's got he's got that as a kind of A. That's obviously dry material but Yeah in mill. Toby is he's he's a resource. I want to mention the Gilligan Book Around Kentucky with the Bug Patrick Patrick. You'll again and you know when when Jack came to the country and he was taking them around as a bug boy and he had copious notes and he put it into a book book around Kentucky with the Bug and that was a a Ryan Book. Award finalists yeah and and really fun. I'm only read excerpts. I haven't read the book But a lot of fun and I got no Jack. I got to know Jack Down in New Orleans this year and when he had his first first grade at stake win we had him on the show But the book Mighty entertaining Irish father and son That sounds great traveling. You know that I would. I would love. I decided to write a book but I would love to have a A tales from the triple crown to some you know Get that public because entails triple crown. The last chapter was was Barbro. So I mean that you know a lot of great stories you know behind all you know my you know personalized and Just behind the stories behind the scene stories of you know the triple Crown Going you know going all the way back to Jim French but you know the book book down by year and just a little behind the scenes back stories and stuff like that stood that most people don't know about you know to all my so am I writings but I've had a lot of stuff since but you know the blood was doesn't doesn't publish anymore. You carry now. I mean that's dead publishing everybody's book well and and now Quite the quite to the relief of a lot of people the the change in in the State House in Frankfurt we'll we'll assure the the ongoing viability The Psycho Oh who basically opened up prison doors and and just let out Willy Nilly Anybody it seems he. He was well on his way to try to shut her The University of Kentucky Press So that at least has been. Yeah but I'm Scott Brooks. I mean they're grow Lenny's actually got some ideas that that they're interested in so many now that he's going to be a semi aged I. It sounds like he's GonNa be working more semi retired and I know right Yeah but he's still he's still booked up books in mind and So Oh he's got an in now with the U. K. press I think they're interested in Yeah so I mean they're very open into publishing To publishing racing books they do a lot of stories. One of my favorite story. You you know the story of I guess. A lot of people know a lot of people. Don't know the whole story behind Muka Macho man and Kathy Rick Fo I. I mean that's convenient for all time favorite stories. Well actually won a I didn't submit somebody Eric Mitchell submitted for me by the run. It one the wondering those words or something but one of the reasons couple of awards for Best Breeders Cup Story. But I mean it's it's it's just an amazing story I just told it. Yeah The parallel the parallel stories between Muccio Macho Man. There basically being born dead that they thought and Cassie ridro basically being getting in giving up I mean she was practically dead herself And both of them you know metaphorically rose from the dead. You know and combine to wonder winning the breeze classic and Under story behind both of them so I that that would make a great book and itself to and the whole story about how Dean Reeves came to get that horse. Yeah they they were interested interested in another horse. Saddam Hussein guided tour. Somebody forgot got a guided tour. No it was a decent a decent. It was a decent Horse from that crop as it happens right and yeah and he was divorced that they were going to buy and any film. I finished second to and that was exactly but I mean Oh oh yes somebody somebody backstories and stuff and I had spoken to so many people to Kim Kim and Kathy's of kids spoke talk to them after the Breeders Cup you know what what she went through. I mean it's an amazing stupid moves. You couldn't breathe good move. Yes she she was basically given up for an and moved macho man I mean to be born dead and it was saying prayers over everybody was sobbing and he gave growth out in the field for new. Just laying there and then Carol Rio Brett the Horse Yep we are. Are we showing her dogs. At the time she came rushing back and they were crying as well and and he just not now not only do they get up. He jumped up. I started running across the field. Everybody was crying and sobbing. And you know that that that he was dead he was born dead and he's running across rushed the field. I'm always a great story and you know for him and Cassie report to find each other Because you know originally ten was the was the was the trainer Job Gulfstream and he recommended Kathy to take over the US training but by the way the horse what it is a good story that the big. What's keeping you get the work by the way the Horse the horse that they were going to buy who I I said I was a nice horse in his own right? Gourmet dinner gourmet started with a K.. Dinner Yeah they wanted to they wander breaking against each other later. Oh yeah and he. He won a million dollars Himself Gourmet Dinner. Well you know it was like an absolute giant people. Forget you almost wanted to bring this up. I tell you my Komo one of my favorite things ever in racing that I think I got most gratitude from an earning Munich was with me at the time and he shook his head I had come up with a statistic about Macho man and was going into the Breeders Cup and I wrote and I made sure that you know Gary Stevens knew about it. Is that Macho Macho man was fourteen when he did not have the lead at the eighth pole right. I remember this. I remember this and he was eight eight when he did deleted the eightfold. And I wrote and I wrote I said Gary Stevens is is reading. This is just make sure you get to leave the eighth pole. So they have to move. Camacho may WANNA classic and Gary. Gary gave the post race Interview when whenever he was finished he looked at me and he smiled and he says he says thank you. He says when we come into the quarter pole I actually thought of you and I said I've got to get the lead. I gotta get that lead at the expo and Did any anyone of winning but raised the calories do for thinking of me coming to the quarter pole and I respect the from that from that statistic which was an amazing statistic Sousse and of course the year before he could run could not get too forlorn it but he wouldn't let us get by him right. I believe at the eight fold Steve were passed. The we're we're at the sixteenth Paul and and I gotTa Chang and Doug Danner so some some final thoughts about twenty nineteen and your wishes for the audience for Twenty eight twenty. Well obviously you know talk about an up and down year. I'm you know. I think we're racing face. That's hard times and in a long time I'm Having overcome all the things that it did and I just hope for racing sake in in the future that the lesson learned from all this is basically how to defend yourself to the outside world to get to market yourself better and just let everybody know. people that aren't that familiar with racing. What the sport is all about and And love that people have horses and for the Sport Board and just to try and quiet. You know some of these Activist groups and especially Feta and some of these others. But you know it's the fans that standing up for it you know on facebook and forming all these organizations and and and standing outside the racetrack saying we love racing. But it's the sport itself self that has to do it So That's how I was obviously one aspect of the sport and you get to meet. The main aspect of the sport was crazy. The three year old triple crown season we had in the year of maximum security. I think that's what people are gonNA remember most about this year is the wild and wacky world of Of maximum security probably one of the most unusual campaigns Any horse has gone through. So we'll see what happens with the with the eclipse awards But you know we got some great news that enabled. We'll be back again next year. Hopefully that you know. We'll see her again at the Breeders Cup. I mean that's GonNa be that's GonNa be fantastic and MIDNIGHT BE SU So you know lots of quote too. I think we've got a great great Derby trail to look forward to I. I mean it's going to be a Chore Come Up With Twelve Horses People can easily come up with twenty five to two rank but it's now down to twelve To me very promising here for the Derby. It's all the top horses. All well bred they just they just looked like class you horses riches and I think it's going to be going to be a great Great Derby trail. So we'll be starting usual times. Probably mid January worry so everybody you know hop on board sippy override this year. Well Steve as always thanks so much for a great year. Best wishes you you too. Thank you everybody now. They were ready to. I don't know what I guess we're starting. We'll be at entering the seventeenth year. I don't know what it is sixteenth. Seventeenth Year walloping outright. Hard to believe but Hope it's a great Season season. And you're gonNA spend some time we spend with the kids and baby. We got coming New Year's Day New Year's Eve day I should say that coming coming Tuesday and that was saying the through the end of the week and so obviously the The trees got a ton of presence around it. So we're looking forward to that. We got a brand new minora in the window to so Nice excellent well happy and healthy and thank you and we will talk. What in two weeks simply? Latino you take care Steve asking everybody and thanks Steve also for Contributing to the last minute book ideas and the Gift Guide. I'll send out. I sent out the first set of links. I'll send out the next set and we'll come back with rich INC and rich hangs year end thoughts and as I mentioned dog. Dander to talk about his amazing mayor. that is ten years old and makes her hundred and ninth start tonight at Turf Way Prom theme looking for her twentieth win. Unbelievable just a mate I mean could you imagine come into the shed every day for six years six years and there there there she is. We'll find out we'll find out what kind of what kind of mayor she liked to be around I. I don't think you know you have one around for six years. I guess is that. She's the barn favorite and something special In this in this era nineteen wins. Twenty four seconds. Twelve thirds thirds pretty cool for two hundred thousand. Yeah she's been running in the same company Same Company essentially her her whole career. I mean she just just a horse but that just shows you how special they they become back after this though rich and joins US next apparatuses with Steve on Sirius. XM radio quest a million dollars is underway but there are still some great prizes is is to be one for those looking at home at the tracker on the go express bed. Is your way to play. The races express provides legal insecure online and mobile betting on more than three hundred of the world's top tracks all the events. And when you sign up for an express account account today with Promo Code Vic that's B. Y. K.. You'll receive a one hundred twenty five dollars bonus once you've signed up you can take your wagering experience to the next exc level with XP Rewards Express Bets industry-leading Loyalty program earn points for every bet. You can cash them in everything for wagering credits to exclusive race track experiences experiences. 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Episode 246 "From This Point Forward We Rise!"

Native Opinion Podcast an American Indian Perspective

2:13:52 hr | 1 year ago

Episode 246 "From This Point Forward We Rise!"

"People. Off. Sure. How do you would introduce them to this genocide on slavery? To these things. there. Was a quite every. Week an equation. When everybody how's it going? You have reached native opinion. We are an indigenous information, education, radio show and podcast every week we talk about current affairs related to and from our own native American perspectives. My name is Mike kicking bear and the guy on the other end of this thing of course, coming in from Florida that has now has power. I'll good morning all. Jointly apologize for being late part of this is my fault. That's your fault when the power goes out and you have no control over that that that is true but. The other reason we're running a little late I usually do my research and curation. And compilation of the rundown. Earlier in the week that made, week. While I was in the hospital this week. So that kind of prevented me from doing such. I had developed. A severe lower intestinal lead. The they're not sure if it's Kobe related or not. But. Again I apologize for. US being a late this morning. We were putting the the rundown together literally at the last minute. No brother completely under understandable. You know it's like we we have to stop these hospital trips. It's just as simple as that. You know myself included is. Just getting out of hand for both of us so. But. I'm glad you're here. Glad you're fine in. Especially in day of Covid, right? WanNa, welcome Bobby Sandra, and CIA. Already think guys very much and it's my fault for not a announcing that we were running a little bit behind you guys so. you know here doing show live on Saturdays and so. again, we all for that so But All right. Let's see. Oh, what's moves into our our morning chores of house claiming so If, you guys want to reach us here in the show. It's very easy. You can email US hosts with an S. hosts that NATIVE OPINION DOT COM if you want to join us here and chat on Saturdays if you go to our website, which is native opinion, Dot Com, there are instructions right there on the homepage on how to use the player and how to connect to the chat room from that player pretty pretty cool and and we will see your messages as as they come in live, which is pretty pretty cool. You can also leave messages out on twitter. It's at native opinion out there. You can also visit our facebook page. It's facebook dot com forward slash native opinion podcast and leave US messages there. also, you can leave us a voicemail at eight, six, zero, eight, hundred, five, five, nine, five, eight, zero, eight, hundred, five, nine, five, good for voice or text. And this is also a podcast at the conclusion of every broadcast. We we have the audio go out to our our assess address for podcast feed so you can simply subscribe in any of your. Favorite podcast directory. So please please check that out. Thank you. Hopefully. We'll have a new. Not. A new listener. She's been a listener for a while but I have an aunt that said she may join us on the chat room this morning if she can figure out how how? They will. There you go. She'll message you and ask. But yeah, we try to make that as as painless as possible on on the homepage. There's not very obvious. So you know we try to work with our. Our provider and I think they are looking into that a little bit but make a little clearer to understand. But anyway but that's how you do it. Go native opinion dot. com. And and look at the instructions there. So. Hopefully. We'll see her. Well as you know we. Have the show twice a week Wednesday. Is A podcast now and Saturday we? Are. Live. And we do thank you for listening and we want each and every one of you to know how much we truly appreciate every bit of the support we gave you. That we get from the excuse me no matter what that support is or what form it's in. The financial support we received goes directly to our cost expenses associated with producing the show. and. We're greatly appreciate that support as well. And those some of those expenses, our website and podcast hosting music licensing, content development, and curation the. Daily business, operations, marketing advertisement, and more. There've been lots and lots of wonderful folks who have contributed to the show by becoming a patron police, join those folks and doing so. It would be great. And how you can do that. You can find those details on our website at native opinion dot com forward slash support. and. On our face like to call it facebook but facebook page. Just click on the learn more button. And another great way to help is just by telling people about the show. And many many of you have done. So and we we appreciate you doing that it. It does help in my opinion word of mouth is the best advertisement there is. And we again thank you all for listening to show. It really does help us grow and you're listening to episode two, four, six from this point. Forward we rise. Excellent excellent. Yeah, and We also have an advertiser that we have on the show. They're gonNA stay with indefinitely, which we appreciate and that's the Mohegan trading post dotcom. And, and again, we just want to let you guys know too that they're taking cova very seriously and are creating cloth masks of all kinds of design. So if you visit Mohegan trading post dotcom You'll see those they're. They're very, very cool I have a couple myself and as do I. They're they're great. They're great mask. Really comfortable. Dan and and also the washable, which is which is very, very cool. I don't think enough people realize that you can do that and and still provide safety you know so to those mass also can be a washed and reused. So that's that's a that's a good thing to have. So again, it's Mohegan trading post dot com just look for the section on masks we appreciate that. Thank you. Oh thank is under center says she added We can trading post to fancy excellent on. Good they saw other stuff there too it. It of you know know all kinds of jewelry. So we appreciate that ever so much. So, another busy week in the news front if you will. So I thought we could touch on a couple of years really quick brother. So sure the. Posts. Douche bag general waste the joy. Or however, the people call him the postmaster for the United States. Of America. Had To go before a Senate committee through test of of testimony yesterday to talk about why he is Basically a crippling, the United States Postal Service. And And so we'll have an article in the show notes from CNN but they published something called six takeaways from the postmaster general's a hearing which took place yesterday and and federal douchebag also has to face the house As well on Monday which they will pose much harder questions than what he got because basically, he was standing in front of a bunch of friends quite frankly in the Senate. Yesterday. So I. Don't know if you were falling into into this brother. I have been What what really boggles my mind is. He's GonNa get a pass on this. Already is I think yeah and he's going to get a pass because of his title. and. It claim clearly states plainly states in in the federal federal laws that anyone. It doesn't say with the exception of it says anyone. Who Tampers. Or stalls or interferes with the process of the US mail. Has Committed a felony I'm paraphrasing. But that's basically what it says. It says anyone he doesn't give exceptions. So, this guy should get no pass, but he's going to. And it's He's he's doing this on a for two reasons to enrich himself at some point. And to. This, I am. People. Can throw stones at me in send me hate mail I don't care. Here's the address host at at native opinion dot com host with an S. this is a continual quid pro quo. He donated heavily to the full campaign the full rewarded him. By giving him this job, he is saying, thank you for this job by doing his bidding by slowing down the mail and literally dismantling the postal. Service. And the enrichment part. Is. Going to be at on behalf of the. The the the the joy jerk. Who is in direct opposition to? The Post. Office. And Business Sense. So he's competition for post offers. So that's that's how this whole thing is a dog and pony show times ten. Well, the only was yesterday I mean again, you know the houses weighed heavily in in republican favor and of course, the guys Republican and he's supporting Donald Trump. I watched some of the testimony you know much stomach, which is about thirty minutes and you know I heard One of the things that jumped out at me was he said while the dismantling of the sorting machines and the removal of some of the post office boxes around the country he says is absolutely routine. he had made mention that you know the these are cost cutting measures after you know. Immense of studies and things like that, and let me read from the CNN article here briefly So it opens by saying joy different distanced himself in some of the changes that the postal services made saying for instance study was not aware of plant closures to post offices and suspended them until after the election So that's That's what people have to understand is that these? The suspensions that people reporting on our so superficial? Okay. going on here says, but acknowledged that the operational changes that he did put in place such as limiting additional truck routes has led to delays in the mail quoting him he says, we all feel bad about. The dip in our service love Awa-. Try this again, we all feel bad about what the dippenaar service level has been. Detroit told. GOP Senator Rob Portman of Ohio did joy later told Homeland Security Chairman Ron Johnson that quote a substantial portion of the delays were due to the covid nineteen pandemic while saying that the United States Postal Service was working feverishly to a race the slowdowns quoting again, the only change that I made Ma'am was the trucks leaving on time theoretically, everyone should have gotten their mail faster. Close quote did joy told democratic, senator, Jackie Rosen of Nevada while acknowledging that there hasn't been that that hasn't been the case. So you know. If if if he's confronted by Democrat, it's excuse excuse excuse and you know borderline I guess we could call it insubordination right? And then if it's if it's a senator skinny Republican senator then it's like a buddy of doing the best. I can you know? I've only been in the job. So many months Blah Blah Blah out nearly thing last thing I'll mention in watching that is he has absolutely no intention whatsoever of of stopping the dismantling of the sorting machines which are critical in moving mail anybody who? Has worked for the Postal Service knows this many postal service workers have big concerns about that and he has no intention of restoring those machines either getting them rebuilt in prepared for. The influx of mail that is clearly going to happen as the you know depending on which state are going to be adopting. More. Mail in balloting processing. So big problem. It is a big problem night and I have worked in the postal services mail handler. And he's he's right on one point. One point. The removal of boxes and sorting machines is routine because when one breaks it's removed and replaced it. S. Not always. Positioned over go no I. I absolutely understand the. Second part about replacing it. With a cost cutting measure, we don't need the machines I'm not putting them back. He basically told them. That's exactly what he said. So you know he's he's stretching the truth. He's telling a white lie. He's given a half truth. He's telling people what you know is routine, but he's not telling people what the damages that he's creating and by removing six hundred plus sweating machines. That slows down significant amount of mail. And those machines are capable of moving. Millions of pieces of mail per hour. It. Here's the other way to look at this two guys if it's a so routine removing boxes and you know the sorting machines and all that Gee. Where were the Republicans voices and concerns of any democratic get yo you had eight eight years of Obama. I didn't hear any Republicans crying about. you know this kind of stuff. During those periods of of voting. Of presidential elections. But you know. But now that it's being brought up by Democrats now suddenly there's all this resistance and you know, oh, it's perfectly fine. Perfectly natural. So you know I it it's a bunch of crap in. It is is a bunch of crap but here's here's the thing that people aren't really looking at. Of, boating. Has Taken Center stage and and it should share the stage. But what is lurking behind the curtain Is the fact that. People's medications are being slowed down at to significantly. And people people are dying because of that Yep. That's which takes center stage. A couple of the senators mentioned that as well but You know th they convey they just don't care. You can sit there and say that well, you know know if their. Actions or their their attitudes rather excuse me not their actions but their attitude's appear to make it look like they don't care They're simply talking about it from the vein they they tried to spin it and say it's not that we don't care. But you know this has been blown out of proportion is what the other thing that I had heard time and time again during that Dan hearing so. Beth right before you came in I had mentioned that as well. Beth and chat said Monday I, think they have to appear before the House Committee and that won't be as easy of a walk. Yes. She's absolutely right and that's that's what I had conveyed because again, the Senate is full of friends with the sky, right? So so Yeah. So we'll see we'll see what takes place. On Monday. Senator also and chat said, let Michael. Open the. And Standard, in the postal service aim postal service. United. States then go in call all all the people and address their as listeners. And here's a letter from trump supporter it's. anyways here? It's just crazy and the other thing in the news this week. Had to do with the arrest of Steve Bannon. Steve Bannon is charged with fraud in a scheme called build the wall campaign I'm sure you've heard about this as well. Brother. I did hear about that. I I kind of laughed. For those historians out there that that. Really. Love to follow history. And organized crime back in the AL capone days. Go back and research. How they got Al. Capone. And you'll see some similarities going on here and their pursuit of the fool in the White House. And this is what made me laugh when I read this about Bannon because They went after key people. That anything to. DO WITH CAPONE They started picking them up one by one and arresting them. And it was it was done to make alcohol swit- that's what it was done. And I think this. I see similarities to this this arrest of abandoned. but I am glad they arrested him. And I I'm thinking they're gonNA stretch this out until after the election. So if they they did knighted him if they convict him, he's GonNa go to jail because by then the fool can't pardon him. Yeah let's say So I've got in this'll be again in the show notes the New York Times article on this and they've chosen us a photo of they took a picture of him as he came out of the courthouse. holding mask waving to the crowds because this is the problem with the era of social media and it's all about you know being famous by so many people I I have. Just because we do a show doesn't mean at least speaking for me producer. Sure. Feels May to. I know I have no intention of being coming famous or any love with it. And it's like this guy, this guy is just because of his connection or ownership I guess of Breitbart? News. That's really where he got his fame from you know an online news from right leaning conspiracy. You know. Paddling Organization right it's very similar. to Guys name The Info Wars Guy. Jones. Yeah. Yeah. But it's Tampered if you will to some degree and his very politically driven but anyway, that's Breitbart News that's where this guy. has a crawl out of. and. So there's a picture him walking out of the courthouse, his mask. Obviously, you know clear defiance in alignment still with the president who fired him by the way. You know people seem to forget that as well. his one of. At. Least Thirty two cabinet people this point that have come and gone in the. Relatively, four short years of this insanity called the trump administration by many. Um But the headline here. So Steve Bannon charged with fraud and we build the wall campaign Mr Bannon and three others are accused in a scheme to use funds raised for construction to pay for personal expenses. So this article by Alan Fewer William K, bomb, and Maggie Haberman wrote this you know jointly Maggie Maggie. Haberman. Wow. She's A. She's been known to be. From time to time a right leaning type of reporter. I don't. Work I again I don't dig into the I don't dig into the authors so much from mainstream but. just real briefly they wrote here. Okay. BANNON president trump's former advisor. And I and I said I use the keyword because the article. former advisor and an architect of two thousand sixteen general elections. Campaign was charged on Thursday with defrauding donors to a private fund raising effort called, we build the wall which was intended to bolster the The that guy is signature initiative along with the Mexican border Mr Bannon working with a wounded Air Force veteran and a Florida venture capitalist Oh. There's Florida connection. There you go. In Your state brother conspired to cheat hundreds of thousands of donors by falsely promising that their money had been set aside for new sanctions of a wall according to federal indictments unsealed on in Manhattan. and also just jumping ahead. Apparently they found this Guy Bannon on A. Very well to do yacht owned by a China Chinese businessmen from what has been reported. So. So I guess I guess if they need to find him again that's that's where he'll be. If you just want to find Steve Bannon, he flipped on a yacht. Waited for him to Dr whether they flew federal chop resent. Pluck him off the Yeah I. Don't know but But you know he he's cut from the same cloth of scumbags like your stone okay. So you know, there's just a nest of these. scumbags that are all tied. To Donald. J, trump. All right. So why don't we move ahead into a listener feedback brother Through okay. So. Good read came in from Dave in Japan. Earlier this morning. So I wanted to share that with you guys. because it's going to set off a chain of events here, which are which are fantastic. We love the feedback and we we're getting worried because we've kind of felt like. Gotten. Any any feedback from anybody right? And and So when you guys came back into big way and we appreciate it. So Dave wrote here, Good Morning Gentlemen. I wanted to touch base on your recent discussion about the impact of white supremacy on Christianity in the United States. I read the article you cited an brought to mind this great piece, which is a bit long. From about the origins of the religious right that had become a powerful force behind the Republican Party in the last forty years. Here's a quote he is. Quoting here, the myth of origins is oft repeated by the movement's leaders. In his two thousand and five book Jerry Falwell the burn the firebrand fundamentalist preacher recounts his distress upon reading about the ruling in the January twenty third nineteen seventy-three edition of the Lynchburg news quote. This is quoting Falwell. I sat there. Staring at the ROE versus Wade story follow rights quitting him again. Growing, more and more fearful of the consequences of the Supreme Court's. And wondering why so few voices had been raised against it close quote. So, Dave right even General Kohl's. He decided needed to organize some of these anti row curse Kerr through Seder's even went so far as to call themselves quote new abolitionists invoking their antebellum predecessors who had fought to eradicate slavery. But the abortion myth quickly collapses under. A historical scrutiny. In fact, it wasn't until nineteen seventy, nine, a full six years after Roe that evangelical leaders at the behest of conservative activists. Paul wasatch seized on abortion not for moral reasons. But as a rallying cry to deny President Jimmy Carter a second term why? Because the antiabortion crusade was more palatable than the religious rights real motive protecting segregated schools. So much for the new A. And that's a close. Quite I'm sorry. So he was continuing to quote the article. So now, Dave Dave comes back and he says this. I may have cut on this in the past, but I was brought up in an evangelical church. As a child on Sundays I remember singing quote. Jesus loves the little children close quote particularly the following line or verse quote Red and Yellow Black and white they are all precious in his sight close quote. However as I grew older and heard some of the ways in which people in the Church would talk about people of Color. I began to question whether we were really being taught to honor the words of that song. I also began to notice seemingly double standards and one morning as a teenager I called out my youth pastor in a Sunday school discussion. He was talking about how Christians needed to set themselves apart from quote the world close quote. Such by not smoking drinking and doing other things which defile our bodies which are the Temple of Christ. But that's Struck me as odd. For drinking carbonated beverages and eating lots of donuts was also bad for one's health leading to problems later on in life. What made smoking drinking so bad. I raised my voice and asked. What makes drinking alcohol wrong. David writes about wine and alcohol in Psalms, and Christ's first miracle was to change water into wine at a wedding which implies that people were drinking a lot. Why would he do that? If drinking alcohol is supposedly wrong, this seems to be a doable standard to me close quote. He seems surprised that I questioned what he was saying and tried to brush it off saying quote. Well, the wind wasn't that strong back then and was safer than water close quote. That didn't quell my suspicion and I replied. Quote again but they didn't know about microorganisms back then nor does it change the fact that they were drinking alcohol I would like to know why this is not a double standard close quote. Frustratingly told me to simply hold my tongue in stop playing devil's advocate which in that instance I think he. which in that instance I think he meant. That incident marked the start of my walk away from Evangelical Thinking in hearing Michael's own experience I couldn't help but be brought back to this incident. Thank you for sharing I. Hope the article I share contributes to that discussion white supremacy in United States Christianity. So So. Dave provided an article as he mentioned in the title at article is the real origins of the religious, right this has authored by Randall bomber. It was released in May of twenty fourteen. So I was actually before the before trump took office. So I pulled an excerpt from the article because as you said, it is quite long link will be in the show notes. In. So there's a there's a subtitle heading here says. So what then were the real origins of the religious, right? It turns out that the movement can trace its political roots back to a court ruling, but not roe versus Wade. In May of nineteen, sixty, nine, a group of African, American parents in Holmes County. Mississippi sued the Treasury Department to prevent three new white. Only K twelve private academies from securing full tax exempt status arguing that they're discriminatory practices prevented them from being considered quote charitable institutions. The schools had been founded in the mid nineteen sixties in response to the desegregation of public schools set in motion by Brown versus board of Education decision of nineteen fifty four. In nineteen sixty, nine, the first year of desegregation. The number of white students enroll in public schools in Holmes. County dropped from seven, hundred, seventy, one to twenty eight. The following year that number fell to zero. In Green versus Kennedy David Kennedy was secretary of Treasury at the time. Decided in January of one, thousand, nine, hundred seventy, the plaintiffs won a preliminary injunction which denied the quote Segregation Academies Close Quote Tax Exempt Status until further review. In the meantime, the government was solidifying its position on such schools. Later, that year President Richard Nixon ordered the Internal Revenue Service to enact a new policy denying tax exemptions to all segregated schools in the United States. Under the provisions of titles, six of the Civil Rights Act which forbade racial segregation and discrimination discriminatory schools were not by definition quote, charitable education organizations, and therefore they had no claims to tax exempt status in similarly donations to such organizations would no longer qualify as tax deductible contributions. Lastly here on June thirtieth of nineteen seventy, one, the United States district. Court for the District of Columbia issued its ruling in the case green versus Connolly as John Connolly replaced David Kennedy as a secretary of Treasury. The decision upheld the new irs policy quote under the Internal Revenue. Code properly construed recently discriminatory private schools are not entitled to the Federal Tax Exemption provided for charitable educational institutions and persons making to such school are not entitled untitled to the deductions provided in case of gifts to charitable educational institutions. We. Thank you David for sharing that article, and again we'll. We'll have the full. The full article will be in the show notes. Thoughts around that brother. Well I am inclined to to agree that. The. Evangelical Supremacist. Movement to Indoctrinate Christianity. Did Not. Begin. With Roe versus Wade. Did begin a lot sooner than that. And I would. Venture to say it went back even further than nineteen sixty-nine. I would say it went back to the point if not further. Of the reconstruction era. When The country was being rebuilt after the civil war. And the beginnings, of Jim, Crow. That's where I believe. The white supremacy. Theft. Of Christianity took place. As we know it today. So, well, the fact that they defend such schools. Engage in that practice. I'm glad to see there was at least some action to prevent the support of such schools by allowing them to continue with a tax exempt status. you know throw in other words they could claim. Don't that tax exempt status when their practices are to be against any people of Color, let alone allowing them to attend their precious schools if there were actually well to do. People of Color Parents Right. So So that, you know that on the surface of the good thing, but it also shows. You know the foundation in in many ways of you know white supremacy and trying to justify their belief systems under. God. For being against people color. And they can disguise it anyway they want to. but it's a very real. Problem In those organizations including including the churches. Will know how they got around that that title six. And the Policy New irs policy in seventy one. They created Christian schools. I'll be talking about that in a moment but. That that's how they got around that. And they made it. A point. They made it. They possession in I'll use the word position they position the schools. In a way that. If, the church was predominantly white and they created a Christian school that school fell under the tax exemption umbrella of that church. And if it was a predominantly white. Congregation. And there are no people of Color in that congregation. Anyway. Them that school was in theory, a segregated school not by action, but by behavior. So that's how they got around that ruling. And Seventy one by the District Court, they created Christian schools. Or they may this the tuition so expensive That some people of color couldn't afford to go limp. So. They'll just waves they got around that and people aren't. Aren't Astute enough to to realize that or if they are they don't care. You know I love critical. Thanks Dave was a critical thinker back in his teen years and that's great. And that just tells me he's raising his children to be critical thinkers and I applaud you for that Sir. Absolutely. Actually Beth commented on that here in chat she's a good job Dave with this feedback with challenging the youth director she she says I did the same thing. It's a you know. It's it's is important for a long time When I was a kid, I used to wear this purple hat. Cap Really. And and Sorry. No it wasn't a cap. It was a hat and on the front of it it said. Calendar thirty. And my parents tried for years to get a stop wearing in public. Because you know. They they didn't want to have to deal with backlash that they wouldn't, but you know. Am My parents didn't raise me necessarily to just follow? The norm right but you know. But the they're their lesson was white Y. Y. Encourage. You. The problem right and the words. The attacks that ultimately or or the or the looks that teachers would. Cause I would try to wear that to school. But Anyway, I was trying to laugh. Was it was interesting So so yeah, IT'S A. His funny how they think but budding I, WanNa bring in some voicemail because we had some good voicemail about that particular episode as well and so it. So this will this will continue in. So got a message here from Badger, love here from Badger also, while thing about voicemails somebody, we haven't heard from in a while and just I'm just worried about his health Paul. So Paul. If you are still listening if you could let us know either email us again hosts with an S. hosts that native opinion dot com or send us another voice message just let us know you're doing. All right he was. Thinking about the other day we would. We would appreciate that I was glad to hear from Badger to good or kind of went went. Mission quiet. But but here's what he had to say. Low My brothers. Hey I love your show as always and I have a couple of thoughts. On the White folks sitting around the table tone that jokes and the American Christian Church. Okay. This segment is called. One. White truckers opinion. Okay. Now the. AMERICAN CHRISTIAN CHURCH That subject has bothered me for quite a while since I I don't know what point I realized that there were pulled denominations of black churches and white churches. It just doesn't make any sense. It's not what the Bible teaches. Theology is taught. So how did that happen? Well I've been studying the Christian Church and I'm not up to the. Founding of this country. But I am up to the Middle Ages. And there's a lot of bad stuff. I mean most people know this already but you know some people are. A little later to the. Table than the others? Anyway. The people in power use the People's guilt and their devotion. Or for their own personal greed and power. So. It doesn't take too much to imagine that that's what happened in this in this country also. And Now how does that relate to the first story? Well You Those. People sitting around and not saying anything. I was one of those people for a long time and there. You don't like it. You would never tell a joke like that. And you're uncomfortable. But you don't say anything well that is wrong. And no one knows the secure for that is. Courage. Her edge is. Maybe not the. The most talked about virtue but it might be the most necessary virtue because without courage you may not display the other virtues. You may think you're kind and just person. For without courage, you won't stand up and say, Hey, put a stop to this. But without doing that. You may think that. You would not stand around and watch someone put a knee. On another person until they can't reason they died, I would never stand for that. Well, you don't have the courage to stop the bad jokes how you're going to have the courage to stop something like that. You have to start somewhere. And for all of you. Or anybody who. is not able to to stop a bad joke. Well, you better grow some cojones. He's. GotTa Start. Somewhere. And Anyway. You guys know. Little, little baby steps. That's how we get there. Keep up the good work, my brother's truth. And love and a shot of courage. Badgers good to hear from me brother. We missed here from you I'm glad you got back in touch with us and you're absolutely correct everything you said is spot on absolutely correct. and. I applaud you for taking that step to realize that. Hey, this is not right. I'm not gonNA participated in participate in it anymore. Thank you. Thank you from the depths of my my hiding I'm sure my brother's heart for you know realizing that and you know moving forward and again you're absolutely correct about. Religion. Being used as a tool by the powerful. That that's for another episode but. You're absolutely correct. Thank you. Thank you for that. Agree absolutely in. Pulled a page right out of. Current affairs, right so Though we we we definitely appreciate that and. others in chat agree with you as well Badger and. Aurora wrote earlier actually which we also shares at our prayers are out for the folks in California they're dealing with wildfires yet again that I. Believe I read. was started by. Not so much arson but irresponsibility I'm not sure if you read that or not brother. I read they were started by lightning strikes. Oh. Okay. That's right. Okay I'm I'm not sure I. Thought I. I thought I heard that somebody else to was involved but anyway but needless to say again once again, widespread damage and. You know I I just couldn't imagine losing losing a home to fire that way when it was completely out of control. Also, Aurora wrote here my Momma said that I was not qualified to be a good Catholic because it was part of my nature to protest way too much. I immediately argued. My disagreement with her and she just gave me the MOM I. One. Without having to say another word Yeah my father is that way. My father would look at me. Other ways is described as being the guy that's exactly what I was thinking. When you get the stink I'm run. Shut the mouth the. Same. Way. Let's say Oh yes. Okay. Railroad. There was an arsonist arrested for one of the smaller fires. Okay. Yeah. I thought I thought I read something like that. So yeah. Bad enough that lightning is setting off but now you've got a guy running around who thinks it's just dandy. For people, lose their lives and property. People. Like that should not come ever come out of jail. Thank. God. No doubt. All. Right. We also heard from Anne who left us a longer a voicemail GonNa play the whole thing 'cause it's really really good and again we appreciate the feedback you guys always always always. So here's what anti had to say. Hi, Michael and And David. It's Anne just reaching out to you guys. I've sent a couple emails and stuff and I think. one into view a voicemail and say, hello see how you guys are doing and just let you know that I've been. Enjoying. The show as always And finally caught up this just finish this past Saturday's PODCAST. The fifteenth. of August. So a couple of things that I found so interesting Was the your discussion about Christian. Christianity in America and I just wanted to give A little bit of perspective on that. GROWING UP IN A CHRISTIAN CHURCH AND Wow. So I. Went through a couple of denominations myself but I just wanted to add something to that your discussion and do with it what you will, but and to add to it that Christianity for many hundreds of years. Has. Been in the wrong hands in my opinion and used. as political For political gain as governmental Power and Oppress many people throughout the world. and. I think what you guys are referring to as Evangelical Christians. Are What My Circle of American Christian friends referred to as fundamentalist. The Christians who cut and paste they take pieces of the Bible and stick them with other pieces of the Bible essentially altering the meaning of the scripture. To, suit their needs. And reinforce their beliefs. Outside of the church, which of course, includes racism and white supremacy and. All of that. So I just kind wanted to add those little extra tidbits and certainly. Agree that Christianity is a sword that's will then Has. been. Wielded throughout history to control others and instill fear in others than control, the masses so to speak and and But there is there is and I know you guys believe this to there are good Christians out there. So that's that little piece Then I actually wrote or response about the gentleman The little piece that you guys played about the gentleman who was talking about his white colleagues. and how silence what I gathered from that piece that segment was that silence can do more damage than speaking out But. I just wanted to share if I could. So. listening to this past Saturday's podcast and listening to the piece about that White Gentlemen calling it his white colleagues or racially insensitive. For me this is a teaching moment that was a that is a real teaching on the white race and non natives like myself. We strive to be culturally competent, which by the way I believe cultural competence is a constant improvement of character. Expansion, of knowledge and broadening broadening of intellect, which are all utilized for self disciplined behavior. Both in speech and action. I digress. The teaching moment is this. There's a fine line between advocating for collective respective anyone who is different from oneself and this case anyone who's different from a white person. And the other end of that line, which is maintaining an awareness that culture should be autonomous and self determined within their cultures. And feel and feel experiences as members of their race and Culture Simply, putting non natives or white people such as myself. Who are driven to advocate for people of cultures whose historic who historically suffer? Stomach persecution ostracism racism must keep in mind that empowering our brothers and sisters. To advocate for themselves, a policy integrity and the value of culture and the people whereas stepping in front of a historically victimized culture with intensive support. In my opinion diminishes the value of that culture and the people but more importantly, it takes the voice away from the people who have the right to change the world's perspective of them and have the right push against the persecution racism and ostracism. That their culture has suffered. And if you're following this Just to let you know that I recognized that as a new monster and lol, intentions are good in most cases I challenge people to take a step back and put genuine effort into listening to the history. and. That I of other cultures and the people those cultures as. They people who contribute present-day people who contribute not not the Not Native indigenous. People as. No longer here but presence. So I'm going to repeat that I ask white people to put genuine effort into listening to the history. Yes. Of course. And recognizing the value of other cultures in the people of those cultures as present day people who contribute already contribute to the predominantly white societies of this world. and. I mean come on we're It's not. And what I mean by that is. Doesn't it? White site. Like people seem to dominate all societies and countries throughout the world is basically what I'm saying and their every country in this world. Is Multicultural and. Those people of other cultures and colors, Brown and. Black people who live side by side with white people. The white people that run the countries. when so many other cultures contribute to those countries I. think that's what I was saying. So I, just wanted to comment on that piece and This is very long but. Just, to finish up by saying all of the other little segments you've been adding and how. your people have been bringing awareness and reclaiming. Their. Their themselves and through history and combining that was present day. It's just really I. Really. Enjoy those segments. So thank you brings awareness educates And it reminds people the those who are listening. You are here and in the now and in the present and in the future. And play for for. The rest of the human. Braces. Existence for however long that's going to be. That's it. You guys are wonderful. Thank you so much. flair for your podcast and I will continue to listen. Kick ice take care bye bye. Thank you for that very, very much. Thank you. one resource I want to give you guys that that. Does help in in the areas that An anti was referring to, and so I would point you to quickly googling I just don't have the actual Lincoln Front of me but included in the show notes of the study is put out by reclaiming native truth and maybe reclaiming native. Truth. Dot Org. but please. Please look for that in our show notes and because it provides. ways to support indigenous action that are initiated by indigenous people. we want the allies for sure as an ally as excuse me as anti pointed out But. There's a there's a write in a wrong way of of. Helping US get our message out there without taking over our our messaging and go any kind of touched on that a little bit We like I said, we want the support when it comes to. Changing these narratives that are so damaging. To our communities out there and so reclaiming. The truth is is a great resource. Please my own means check that out. Thank you ever so much badger. Thank you ever so much. We enjoy listening from each and every one of you please continue to. Give a shit thoughts and ideas and comments. All right and just to sort of wrap up the discussion around White Evangelical 's racism and and to a certain degree, the church got. Some advice for budding evangelical. Just because your dad was famous. Doesn't mean that that you are too. Does I'm going to play something real quick here. In my opinion Donald, trump lives the life of loving the helping others as Jesus taught in the great commandment. He cannot be bought. He's not a puppet on a string like many other candidates. That was. That was Jerry Falwell, junior from speech that he gave supporting Donald J, trump for president. And that was in twenty, sixteen foul is the son of late Jerry Falwell senior longtime leader in Christian Right Evangelical He was quoted in Listener Dave's article earlier that we shared with you guys. Fall. Son Jerry. Has Been the President of Liberty University. it's a private evangelical Christian University in Lynchburg Virginia. So this kind of goes to what you were talking about a few minutes ago brother about how some of these organizations got around some of that stuff. But. Now, after four years of giving his endorsement of trump had seems that son Jerry has gotten himself into some trouble take a listen. Jerry Falwell junior the President of Liberty University is now on an indefinite leave of absence from the institution, his father helped create. This comes after a series of actions from Falwell that left many asking for his resignation, the latest controversy this picture that went viral since been deleted from Jerry, Falwell Junior's instagram page in it. It shows his pants zipped and his arms around a woman who also has her pants zipped the university didn't give A. Specific. Reason for their requests but new tonight at eleven Jerry Provo, the chairman of the Liberty University Board of Trustees issued a written statement saying in part today, my colleagues I on the Liberty University Board of trustees and Jerry, mutually agreed that it would be good for him to take an indefinite leave of absence. This was a decision that was not made lightly in which factor the interests and concerns of everyone in the L. U. Community. Ten reporter Shane Wire is alive tonight at liberty's campus Shane I. Where does the university go from here and then now who's in charge? Britney two great questions. We don't know the answer either of those tonight there has been no announcement about who will be named an interim president or if an interim president will be named. But again, this comes amid mounting controversy people putting pressure on the university. All we've heard from the university today was that very brief statement saying that Jerry Falwell Junior would step down right around five o'clock this evening and ended the part that you just read from the letter from the board of trustees that gave a little bit more detail but still leaves. A lot to the imagination at this point again, all coming as lots of pressure was put on. Liberty University to make a change day for the Liberty University history books as the Board of Trustees tells president. Jerry, will junior they need a break full well is now on an indefinite leave of absence surprising in saddening to allow Merrick Herald one of the thirty five African. American alumni who pen the letter condemning him following his governor north and black face mask tweet you keep seeing. Okay, I. Did this I'm sorry I won't do it again if. You did this. I'm sorry I won't do it again. Then it's done again or something it's tweeted was something. I think that people just get to that point where they're like, okay. Enough is enough in this now deleted instagram photo that went viral Falwell's Panzer unzipped with his arms around a friend, the party, just the latest in a series of Shivers Forum star black athletes had begun liberty citing racial insensitivity earlier this year he tweeted the mask with North black-faced photo on it which contributed to a riot posted a sarcastic photo of roadkill with a dead from covid nineteen sign next to it on instagram and was chastised for allowing students back on campus at the beginning of the pandemic it all had many including Carol questioning if Falwell Junior was untouchable. Thought Okay does anybody care anybody paying attention to any of this? I mean I, had more facebook. Debates going back and forth and what I care to even think about nowadays. But that will change with this announcement and has many asking where does the university go from here Carol says this is a first step, but it hardly fixes the problem right now I can tell you there's probably At. least from what I, what I know of this elite, seven groups of people from Liberty University that are just ready to raise cain over all of this stuff that's gone on and how people have been treated. Carroll. Says he hopes this ends the bad news for the Liberty Name and despite confusion he never called for Falwell's resignation. He just wants him to reconcile with his faith. But at the end of the day I'm trusting that the board of trustees is GonNa look at this and say how to restore. Whatever that looks like whether that's restoring him back to the president of the school or not. That's up to the board of trustees and Jerry Junior. Now despite all this Liberty University life will go on in two weeks from now, students are set to return to campus. It's unclear at this point how this change at the top major shakeup will have any impact if any at all on when students come back and what that looks like live in Lynchburg Shire ten news working for you. So. Bad Day follow. I'd say. What is? What is going on with? White and yacht. Any other way to put it. Know. It's Part of the percents. I'm rich. And I'm GONNA flaunt it. There was a different clip I was to pull of another evangelical This hit the news the quite quite some time ago, but it was. Said Foul I can't remember. What was the name of that person? Can't think of it right now. But. There was a there was a news media organization that That caught him coming out of a Very nice looking limousine. And She proceeded to ask him questions about. You know how he was. In essence spending church members money. Private. Jets here and there to the various different appearances at he was making. And this this individual has had countless plastic surgeries done to his face and. Today he he looks horrible. it's this is a guy. Why can I not think of his name is driving me crazy. I know what you're talking about this now now that I'm talking in circles here. I'm not sure why can't find this but I, apologize you guys Oh. Yes. Kenneth Copeland is referring to. And Actually I'll play a taste of this for you guys. We just like to ask you about why you don't want to fly commercial. Why have you said that you won't Fly Commercial? You said that it's like getting into a tube with a bunch of demons why do you think that? Listen to me? To. Sing. Not The people. The main reason. is because of the need. It if I flew commercial. I'd have to stop sixty five percent. That's really to me. Isn't it true that you wanna fly commercial so that you can fly in luxury how much money did you pay for? Tyler Perry's Gulfstream jet for example, will, for example, that's really none of your business but. This is. So. So there's a lot more that was produced by inside edition and Let's see just so I can credit properly here. Lisa Guerrero was a woman asking the questions and so this went on and on about. You know his lifestyle. Okay. And So You know this guy is. Very much. It was confirmed. You know that yeah he flies private jets to and from these different appearances you know Limousines the whole nine Your Work Falwell course. Supposedly the leader of this particular Evangelical University. Okay Is Party ended up on. Yachts. Is just it's it's endless. The end it and it's in everybody's face and I think that people do need to say stuff. Particularly if you know if it's church money that's being spent when. You're intent of giving or tithing I. Think it's the proper eternally silly citizen. Southern Baptist. Church. Church circles tithing Eh tend the Bible. All right. has a particular intent behind it. and so. These folks. Are Problem. And you would think these churches were would denounce them, and then of course, there's the political connections as well. So but anyway, I just wanted to close on that this stuff goes on all the time all we back to member Tammy Faye Bakker. And Jim Jim Baker Yup Jim, and Tammy. Problems same kind of thing. And unfortunately, long after you and I are gone brother there will be others. Less somehow this stuff gets put in check but. I don't think. I met quite a number of folks like this. Experiences down south. So loved gives lungs you have people like Falwell and Copland and crow dollar or whatever his name meant. Long, you have those folks going around it's it's. Going to happen. Know you guys you know if you WANNA. Do all you're listening to Google Kenneth Copeland C. O. P. L. A. N.. D. And in look for recent photos of this gentleman in, it's just like a scary man scary looking individual. So. I don't know. All. Right and real real quick. Before we move on the run down I just want to point this out Aurora wrote in chat brother regarding the fires in California. she wrote California's notorious for wildfires north South East and west. We don't usually get much rain in the lower elevations from May until October with the dry assed mount months. Excuse me being July and August. We have mountains in the north, South East, and West, and some in between the mountains will get a little rain now then and even in the summers but not usually much a very much and the valleys in between the mountains get very very dry and some of the those valleys are huge. Of course there is death valley in the far south next to the Mojave desert. But remember the TV show big valley lots of excuse me but my make. Lots. Of Grass Grassland Valleys all up and down the state he east and West when I was a kid and lightning would strike and start a fire near the near the coast. the nighttime fog from the ocean would dampen it. And if it was near a mountain, it would get a little rain from the the higher clouds. So fires in those days didn't last very long. they didn't usually get here in burn for weeks, but the forestry industry took over remember smokey. The. Bear. And and did not let these small fires burn themselves out naturally, the forestry industry want to put the fires out immediately because. Every tree is dollars to them. So now, the dead branches and the brushes in the forest gets overgrown and create a huge mountain ranges of tinder boxes and a little rain. Scroll down here. Sorry and a little rain or fog does not put the these huge fires out historically. The indigenous people here native Americans would periodically start small fires. When they saw the rain clouds coming, it created a rich farming plots four them. Both the grass grassy valleys, and in the in the woods by the way, the sequoia trees don't burn very well, they just keep growing taller archaeologists can see how the indigenous people here have been doing successfully controlled. Burns, for many centuries. That is very true. Currently there are a few hundred fire still burning today several dozens are large and out of control. if you have been a burning for three weeks or more. and. That's just you know. Horrible. But but it is true from. from A. Control. Burn point of view that that. That's very, very true. It is it is true it sad. We we have a lot of controlled burns here. But we have to we have to have those controlled Burns because the the under story gets so thick. That it's hard for. Rain to put them out. If we're in our dry season. So. I can fully understand what she was writing in post. And thank you for that. Appreciate you. Commenting on the on the. The evangelical stories and stuff we've been writing she. She goes. It's hard to understand how people seem to to not is hard to understand how people seem to not understand that pictures will get out at some point. Do. Very rarely. Figured that they're not going to be held accountable. So well, in this case, it's Falwell shooting him on his his own self in the foot. He posted pictures. I'm just having a great old China. All right. All right. All right. You know. When when you stick your foot out there and go bending that kind of stupidity catches pretty real quick. Very quick shoot already. We'll move on here so. News of news you were up brother. Thank you. Thank you this this. Article. Carries a lot of way to kind of. Goes right in tune with the the Title of this episode from this point forward. We. Rise. and. I was glad to see this come about. I'm kind of sad that it wasn't included in the. Democratic. Show I'll call it. The convention. But. It came to light anyway. A. Native Caucus, sorry. Show. Is a great way to get. No, I won't I won't. I won't go there. Go, there because I didn't disagreed with. A lot of within the convention, but anyway, go ahead. Sorry that's. The title is female leaders, Headline Democratic, Native Caucus, and this comes to us by way of India country today DOT com. The author is. Walk Lean, Eustis, and Jordan Bennett Gay. For? Indian country today. And the native American caucus seems to be growing and I'm glad to know that and see that happening because. If it continues on the path that it's on. I believe we will see more. Native faces. In both bodies of Congress. For a long time to come. That's what I believe. This article it's kind of long. So I'm just going to read a couple of comments from each of the. The headliners from the Democratic Native Caucus. and. One of the bylines from one of the authors is and I quote relatives. This clearly is the most important election of our time and quoting that wants him by misuse and and. And Jordan Gay. The first native American caucus meeting of this year's democratic. National Convention kicked off online. Tuesday. With land acknowledgement here here. And a string of high ranking female speakers here here again. US Representatives Damn Holland. She reached Davis and Minnesota Ten governor Peggy Flanagan with the first in a series of native leaders who rallied viewers to get out the vote to elect. The nominees for the Democratic Party Joe Biden and Kamala Harris quoting relatives. This is clearly the most important election of our time said Flanagan that was a quote from waiters. The personality woman elected to executive office. She noted that in Minnesota, the women's caucus in the State House, was able to get legislation passed. Good. With help from the governor's office on issues such as missing, that's not an issue problem. Missing and murdered Indigenous Women Child Welfare funding and government to government council continents are. Consultation. Word I know all through well. Tell. tation consultation consultation consultation consultation. To federal term unfortunately. But unfortunately, and quoting again that work has allowed us to respond to the Kobe nineteen pandemic truly as partners to protect our people. But we know that we have still tremendous work to do and quote. Holland. Laguna. And Jimenez Pueblo and Davis David's I'm sorry. Ho Chunk the first two native women to serve in Congress Holland. Noted the nation is facing several crisis. More than one hundred and sixty thousand people have died from covid nineteen quoting following that. Economic collapse has decimated the livelihoods of millions and immoral back hume has left our country reeling from the effects of systemic, racism said Holland of Mexico. She's absolutely correct. We in Indian country quoting again have been among the hardest hit. Native. Americans. died at a rate twice that of quite Americans. Native owned businesses have struggled to access the financial support that was supposed to be available to everyone. And Native Americans have been content have continued. Excuse me to face the bigoted beliefs policies. They have been confronted sense. Well, the late fourteen hundreds probably in quote. David's. Of Kansas said having to native women in Congress changes the conversation just by having them in the room. Absolutely. With their background in Indian law experience working on reservations with tribal communities quoting we have the ability to educate our colleagues influence decision making. Quoting. Again, it makes a huge difference being able to educate our colleagues as peers. And that's an important statement. You may ask peers. And it's one of the reasons that I'm so excited that we have I record breaking number of native folks running for office across the country in quote. Quoting again I feel like we're at the beginning of something pretty phenomenal. Of Native people really taking the reins of our state legislatures and the Federal Government End Quote Davis. And I agree wholeheartedly with that sentiment excuse me one second. Win Whistling. Little. No probably. Another speaker US candidate. Paula Jordan. My friend just horrible. Elaine I'll just say the last that coordinates Cordier. Lean. Thank you, You Frenchman you. Watch many dunes. Sometimes. is asked why are there so few natives in elected office quoting I would say that in large part it's because we were late to the game. Later earned the right S. citizens with the right to vote. And, we're still having to overcome voter suppression today. and quote. She is encouraged however by organ light By the organizing, she seeing and what she calls the spirit of awakening quoting again when our spirit goes through this process of awakening, we started hearing to our purpose and really truly acting in light of our spiritual connection line of our ancestry. In quote Jordan says. Let's say. This goes on. There's another young lady. That I will mention. Shannon how Holes Halsey President of the Stockbridge Muncie community band of the Mohican Mohican Matt Mohegan Mohican Indians of Wisconsin delivered land acknowledgement at the beginning of the discussion. She said. And digits people are one of the most vulnerable communities when it comes to climate change effects quoting mother earth is being threatened by global warming and climate change. Quoting again it is vital honoring protect her excuse me with. Active Stewardship and by educating ourselves about the significant impact of this. She says issue, but I say problem not only in our community, but within the land that we have learn and live in quote. Keep Keith Harper. One of the many trail blazers in Indian country led a discussion with tribal leaders from across country across the country excuse me focused on the. Mental issues at St. Mr Harper. It's just been a vocal spokesperson. He's US ambassador to the Cherokee nation in Oklahoma. Let's see. O. A Dave archambault Hush Bill, the second I was wondering what happened to him from the Standing Rock Sioux tribe in North Dakota join the conversation as well. And he says, how do we change move from the protests to FA-? From protest excuse me to real fundamental change. That's a quote from. Mister archambault In reference to a question from Mr Oppor. archambault said it's about having different approaches or strategies. Of course, there is lobbying to Congress members, state legislators, and other politicians and other strategists native youth building. The. Noise. which is what happened with standing rocky says Moore. That's true. They did make a lot of noise. Good noise. While the noise is building activism came into the picture in a sense of togetherness pile on top of that an advocate was the last strategy. He said quoting an advocate someone who wants something better for the community and as activist as an activist excuse me as somebody who sees something wrong. And we have to build awareness about that. The advocate is the political permission. Quote Historic Bill said. So the rest of this article will be in the show notes it glad will I was glad and it was good to. Know that this caucus was. Given the spotlight that it was even though it was an online presentation. So I'm hoping that. It continues to grow. And continue to move forward at light speed. That yeah. No I agree with everything that you just said My only suggestion and a preface by saying I don't know. or haven't been able to find so far the complete list that made up the caucus. But with that said the article in and of itself does not show any east coast native leadership. NC This goes along with what I said on Wednesday show. which has to do with representation of that you know we're talking about the DNC now K.. So. And also, quite quite quite frankly. American politics in general. squeaky wheel gets the grease right. In. So the larger tribes SQUEAK LOUDER THAN US smaller tribes. and. Then they're still unfortunately They're still some contingency out there. That doesn't believe that tribes of with the exception of perhaps the one nation. That don't believe that We have tried here north of the Ohio River Valley? And and so when I don't see well known at least up in our circles here, well-known east coast, tribal leadership especially from want pornography. Let's for God's sake right? on a caucus of this nature in this size. were that. and. So this this this makes me start to have skepticism towards. How these caucuses were formed. who was in charge of making the decisions was the outreach actually done because I could be wrong right? Maybe maybe we had people that just couldn't make it. But. When I look at it through a historical lens over the past ten to fifteen years. Some names are missing? And so you know I only encourage future caucuses and future leadership that put such caucuses together, and I know that one of the promises that the Biden Administration is making is is that they will restore. some very much needed strategical meetings that the Obama Administration put in place with our with our indigenous leadership in this country to please make sure that the outreach is done to our our northeast of native leadership because we would like to be involved. So that's my only small critique based on the article itself If I, am incorrect in that there was in fact representation from east. coast. A native leaders than than I will make that correction at such time but right now I don't see it. And so That's it. Really. Beyond that, I'm in full support of What everybody Has Already stated and the importance of you know in in that type of thing. But the only thing I also will add is that if there is a change in leadership the same voices that are represented here in this in this article I would like them to be equally proactive in making sure that the promises that have been held by the would be incoming administration that we hold them their feet to the fire. And make those problems start to eventually go away like missing emerged indigenous women. So. Thank you. That's why I was saying I. Hope this caucus continues to grow. and. You know we have to. We've said many many times. Has To represent all of native America. To mark? Charles. This this is a crucial time for native America. And all of native, America. And it's a crucial time to make a difference in our lives and the lives of generations to come. Native representatives in the nation's lawmaking body paved the way for those possibilities. Can I. Let me let me let me on that point. Let me tease. Discussion. Sure. And? I hope that I communicate this correctly. we hear references often about America being a melting pot. It's or then get away and put it in his true. Multicultural. K.. But understand that that multiculturalism is a a result of immigration. We, are not immigrants here. From from indigenous. country. And so. The education process relevant to. Our indigenous peoples is an ongoing effort. and. This is one of the reasons that I position it that way. It is not that I'm anti immigrant. But the news media focuses on when they can reach millions and millions and millions of people on a daily basis. By the hour. When they fail to? include. Certain, indigenous positioning statements such as simply were still here. Excuse my brother, I have to step away from the micro moment. Yep No problem. You know then. Regardless of who into state or federal offices in obviously that's going to include people who've that have you know Immigrant backgrounds. Be It even if they are born here in the United States and they're American citizens certainly. You know but parents and. Family ties can inevitably go back to outside what is. Understood to recognize as the borders of the United States so in education process because Has To continuously happen out of our communities and I think that's what is representative of having more of our people in office. You know I'm avoiding the subject of you know whether or not I consider myself in American or not in other indigenous people that consider themselves Americans are not it's it's a separate discussion. I feel because. Were were ignored by by enlarge either deliberately or not deliberately, and the only way to correct that is to have our voices known in one way to do that of course, is to get indigenous people elected into offices and so you know I recognize I recognize that. So that'll be for you know again a future discussion. because I think it's it's important to. Continue to convey that That we we need these. these these histories and this knowledge to be Very much at the forefront of many many of these discussions a moving forward. That's why I laugh hysterically every time the Republicans bring up immigration reform because it's it's a it's a joke talking point quite frankly. So. Okay next article. is by Annette so nuke claps. CLAP SADDLE In this appeared in. Yes magazine. And the title reads this Native Tribes Response to Covid nineteen is working and addressing another community problem. So the article goes on to say. A few weeks ago I found myself tearing up at my kitchen table as I listened to a healthcare official from eastern band of Cherokee, Indians explained to me. The intricate in bold steps might tribe is taken to combat covid nineteen on the Kuala boundary specifically. Cherokee. North Carolina. We had enacted policy and consolidated resources completely separate from the state or federal aid and mandate. This was the third conversation on the topic I had had with a tribal official the third time I teared up out of pride. As of July twelfth, even after the summer holiday surges. The eastern band of Cherokee Indians or the E E C I. As administered five thousand six, hundred and twenty covid nineteen tests with eighty six positive test result sixty one of those have fully recovered. These are exit exemplary rates compared to our neighbors and surrounding communities. Counties excuse me such as Henderson and Mikan or making excuse me and in mid-may when I began speaking with tribal officials are numbers were even more remarkable. But just as I was celebrating our assertion of sovereignty amid a global pandemic, the story took a complex turn. I was about to tear up over a different statistic. The. ABC has reacted to Kogo nineteen with an abundance of caution that exceeded much of Indian countries and certainly our home states response. In Partnership With the nonprofit Dogwood. Healthtrust a nonprofit health organization based in Asheville. We began providing access to free community wide testing. Even for eysenck thematic people. Long before North Carolina, recommended it. We set up roadblocks and allowed only residents or ABC I enrolled members to excess to access the boundary. We closed non essential businesses, including Harris Cherokee. Casino, and our government offices. We employed a sophisticated and comprehensive contact tracing system that has been credited with identifying eight. Excuse me again contracting. Contact tracing system that has been credited with identifying a symptomatic carriers before they unknowingly transmitted the virus. However, one week before the removal of roadblocks, my facebook feed was inundated with local memorial postings. At this point no enrolled members of the BBC I had succumbed. To the virus yet seven residents of the Kuala boundary. Out of a population of about twenty, one hundred had died within a couple of days of each other. While, we focused on slowing covid curve experienced experienced an explosion of drug overdose deaths. Additionally. The total number of overdoses including those not resulting in death was incalculable. During statewide lockdowns non-essential tribal employees continued to be paid though now at home. A per capita loan fund provided ready cash for those not willing or able to wait until June first. DIS- DIS-. DIS-. Of Gaming Revenue. Food assistance programs continue to run and emergency services ramped up for their care for elders and the needy. Tractor trailer even brought in a full load of free frozen chicken to the boundary providing ten pounds to each. Ten pounds each to anyone who showed up excuse me. These were all tremendous examples of community caring for the collective and stabilizing an economy but it also meant that we became one of the few communities in far western North Carolina who still had the means to be paying customers especially in the especially in the illegal trade. Ready access to cash stiffened across the remainder of the western North Carolina but the boundary continued to provide a fluid market for dealers. The blockades provided a challenge for traffic durr's. How to move product across barriers when passage required drivers to either be enrolled ABC members or prove boundary residency. They needed to move larger quantities fewer times. What resulted was an inflow of Fenton all laced heroin. Each. Dealers construct their product and meet the demands of all customers. In a timely manner quote the narcotics industry followed a customer service model. It's it's a sophisticated business close quote principal chief Richard Snead said they were going to meet demand. They weighed their risk, a risk reward ratio a scariest Halloween there. But members of the community who struggled with Substance Abuse Disorders, who are accustomed to a typical dose were caught off guard by this production adjustment, the a the addition of Fenton, all synthetic opioid that is fifty, two, hundred times stronger than morphine seven died. Others turned to can for a lifeline. Vicky. Bradley. Secretary of Health and Human Services for the ABC AI argues that we have a dearth of consistent overdosed drug usage data that can show clusters of overdoses and deaths in almost real time. Quote, but it relies on ems and healthcare facilities to code a death as an overdose in some providers are reluctant to do. So because of stigma for the family close quote she explained quitting her again, they may code They may coated as a heart attack or other similar event instead close quote. Yes. So that shows potential weakness in data accuracy, right? You know. Because if you're going to share if that data were, for example, be shared with you know Indian Health Service and and try to justify. Of course, you know funding levels the better the data is You know the better that justification becomes, but if those types of actions such as misquoting. Situations I can instantly see how that can can become a problem right there. So going on here in the article says the ABC's overdose map where the collected data is housed for analysis also does not account for instances when Narcan. An overdose reversing medication was used to revive a patient. When we have more covid nineteen contact tracers than North Carolina's goal. We don't have a consistent philosophy close quote for tracking overdoses. Bradley said. She notes that the takeaway from our Kovic response is at the effectiveness of a multi user platform to capture data and her programs are in the early stages of expanding just such a platform. The chief of the eastern band of Cherokee Indians alcohol law enforcement, Agent Josh Taylor, who was tasked with expanding. Excuse me expanded responsibilities during the shutdown believes the covid nineteen precautionary measures highlight one important truth in the fight against the drug epidemic in the boundary. Exceed beyond the boundary. Quote. It was one of the few instances when we got to take outsiders out of the equation. It was a sad reality that our people were working so hard. Excuse. Me He says it was a sad reality that our own people were working so hard to bring drugs into our community. Maybe, they were now having a tra- Having to traffic the drugs more themselves or maybe they just always have been. He said. The most difficult to judge. The most difficult adjustment for Taylor was realizing quote that dope was killing more of our people than this pandemic close quote. With Cova Nineteen proliferation in the drug community. Contact tracing simply won't be as effective people abusing are misusing drugs rarely obey stay at home orders even if they test positive, that's very, very true. Overdoses seemed to diminish with removal blockades and officers were no longer needed for border control. Issuing and arrests became the news. The newest trend traffic acting intelligence was gathered not only from police surveillance efforts, but also from community services that were making more home visits as a result of covid nineteen. Unfortunately this led to. The next challenge. The next challenges for the ABC I fourteen law enforcement officers were exposed to in nineteen while on drug-related calls and needed to quarantine for two weeks sidelining them from their duties. Of course, means less officers. To date state and federal aid has gone little to assisted Let me actually comic back on that too. So if you have less officers available, you know to respond to calls. You don't have a way to replace them, and then of course, when we're talking about federal responsibilities to travel nations and that funding just doesn't appear or actually goes down which is more of the historic norm where those people gonNA come from. But that doesn't you know that doesn't stop the The influence of increased overdoses. Within our communities so And that's that's a great reason why we have to fight harder with the federal government to get the funding that they should have been providing all along law enforcement in the reasons around this, and you know that still falls within the realm of the areas that I would consider health and human services so. Going on here, the close out the article says, this is one reason that their stories are so emotional for me. They don't censor their words because they know the importance of being honest with ourselves. Now of learning from this seemingly temporary academic an epidemic, how we might begin to combat a much more longstanding one. Because sovereignty is not only protection from the outside, its responsibility to derive power from the inside. And again, just a little bit about the author and that is an enrolled member of again the eastern band of Cherokee Indians residing in Kuala North Carolina her debut. Even. As we breathe, is scheduled to release in September of two, thousand, twenty by the University of Kentucky Press. So. Yeah that So glad she posted this because you know. You don't think about that relevant to Cova you're you're hearing you know everything else from lack of P. to you know the other you know lack of employment and those types of things. But do you know I? I haven't even heard mainstream let alone at being out of any country I haven't heard any any stories a relevant to you know people that have drug problems that are. Finding it more difficult to you know to get their fix if you will and and what desperate measures are taking. This is a pretty extreme case and you know But we you know today exist in one we we have to assume it exists elsewhere in in. So that's. That's pretty that's pretty sad and that we need. Some attention to this for sure. So All right Day You back with US I don't think he is because I can't hear is Mike. But but I'm. GonNa. Go ahead in move forward in the program until. Such time he comes back. So, it is. This time. Debut Back Oh. Yes, he is. You know time is. Probably back like. Blaring. Yeah I laughed at this. Title or to go brother this morning. Woke me right. You can't make this stuff up. Well here goes. Virginia mayor urged to resign. Now the urged him to resign. After saying Biden picked. And I quote and Jemima as VP The the sloth. Goes. On. To say. And I'm quoting I, understand what I posted on social media was wrong. Offensive in unbecoming. In quotas combing. Worry Mayor Berry. Press Graves said Monday. Now he understands what he posted. Wrong. Then in there. Okay. We talked about this all morning it is not related you know to church or Evangelical, but just the flagrant of these people. The flagrant of it I understand what I posted it on social media. Did it a deliberately? Me To say I'm sorry. Right Here we go. This article was written by. Germinal. General Griffith. For believe it or not NBC. News. Dot Com. Virginia mayor is facing calls for his resignation. FACEBOOK post my word. and which he said that Joe Biden a quote just announced it and Jemima. As his running mate. Lou Ray. That's his name I mispronounced ray mayor. Berry press graves posted the comment about two weeks ago Blue Radi you, sir. On his facebook page my word. This comment was condemned by members of the Lou Ray town council and other residents before he took it down that sound like a vacuum cleaner to me. Get your. blue-grey Rachel. Ray. So. He had no intentions of taking it down had the other town council members state silent and? Just didn't challenge immoderate like the gentleman said in the video clip that we played on. Wednesday. Lure is a town of less than five thousand people. Here we go. Ready Drum Roll. A majority of them white. According to the most recent census data four percent, four percent of the population is black. The town is about ninety miles west of Washington DC ninety miles. I talk about. Population in this in in terms of. And that kind of thing see this guy and the people that surround him know this all too. Well, there's only four percent of them. They can't affect any change. Obviously, whatever I want. You. Think that trust me. That's exactly the mindset. Absolutely. Absolutely. A number of black women were on. Biden's running mate shortlist including representative Bowel demings, California representative. Karen. Bass who leads the Kirk Congressional Black Caucus mayor. Kisha Lance Bottoms and Susan. Rice. The former national security advisor to President Barack Obama. Press Graves. Apologized in a town council meeting on Monday night. There's a picture of him with a normal set it up a poop eating grant on his face. Very Press Grades Mayor of Blu Ray for Jana town of blu-ray. That's what it's under the heading. The caption on the poop eating grand. Photo. And quotes I want to make this very clear to app to everyone with absolutely no qualifications breast grave says I understand what I post it on social media was wrong offensive and unbecoming. He goes on to lie. My words. Press grave seventy seven added that it does not reflect what is in his heart. He he says, and I quote I want to make a direct apology to all people of Color and women. Passing off demeaning and worn out racial stereotypes of humor isn't funny. He says, and that quote. Quoting again I now. I have to play this I'm sorry. Bullshit. Goes on to say quoting I now fully I now fully understand how hurtful it is and I can't, and we'll do better and we can all do better we must. He conclude. Good timing. From the bottom of my heart, he's quoting I am sorry and humbly ask for Your forgiveness and your grace in quote. He's only apologizing because he got caught. Here's here's his here's his telling statement. I now fully understand how hurtful it is. You're freaking seventy seven years, old plots earning Joe to pray for me. Seventy seven years old and he now fully understands seventy seven year old. You've been calling people the were at all your life you've been you've been making racial jokes are alive and what was the epiphany that finally caused your light to come on Somebody slapping you down and saying what you said was wrong. That's what the epitome was. I now fully understand how hurtful it is. please. Barbara Vinnie sixty nine Liu resident addressed. A press graves directly at the meeting. Quoting I've been here all my life almost seventy years and today I'm hurt. and. Quote she says. Then, he told press grades she was not there to tear him down or to speak ill him. But that she had to stand for what is right good for you lady no matter what your ethnic category is now about to find out though then he said her father was black and white and her mother was Indian in black and that she was not taught to be racist she said she was taught. What comes out of the mouth hurt you. Can. Hurt. I'm sorry and you have to be careful what you speak because words to her in quote. Quoting again, we need somebody with positive thinking. That will shape this community dividing. Quoting again, in order for us to move on I'm asking you today Mr Mayor you need to step down in love because I love you man man. Those my quote. Do the right thing quote gamma lead this where it is. It's it's sad that he was. He was not say a word about he thought was funny. He thought you know people are going to laugh and the probably the one woman of Color on the board will just going to sit back and stay quiet. That's what he thought. Well, let's see since it's not the end of the year yet. I reserve this for this gentleman do. He's the Jewish. Folks painted ground. Of the. DOUCHEBAG. Looking. Back. Do. Back. Okay. Use Yeah you're do. You definitely. Need to go. Tell you the rest of this pitiful article in the show notes yes. Thank you, brother. Appreciate that. Appreciate that. And exist. They do exist they exist. Unfortunately. All right let's see. Article here, as we approach, would we approach ing too to our mark our mark for? Run a longer episode awhile brother. All. Right. Title is SORTA. Oh, you're up in. Sorry. I'm starting to steal your thunder. That's okay. This article is. And I'M GONNA preface this article by this. Can't for the life of me? Understand. Why any native? I. Don't care who you are. Way, any native would support the fool in the White House. Granted everybody's entitled to their opinion. Everybody's entitled to vote who they want to vote for everyone is entitled to what they want to believe. But when you've seen. What rolls out of his whole. His behaviors and his lack of empathy. His lack humanity, his lack of just being a person. And you still want support this put. I don't know what to tell you. I just I don't know what to tell you other than you. You Might WanNa go reexamined. Your beliefs. And Really take a look at. What's going on around you? Read the definition of narcissism. THAT'LL HELP The title of this article who are Navajos for the fool in the White, house my words that trump. By Cindy Earth from Navajo Times that. There is no doubt novel. Republicans exist. They comment on the Times facebook page we know some personally they say. But are there any actual Navajos Republicans behind the massive? NAVAJOS FOR TRUMP? AD. Campaign that hit the nomination last week. It's so. If. So They're not exactly front and center. A group called rally forged. Limited liability company. took out half page ad in the Navajo. Times last week and also a banner ad on the Navajo Times website. With the words Navajos for trump prominently displayed. According to its corporate filing documents Rally Ford is run by Jake Hoffman out of Queen Creek Arizona. CNBC describe rally forge as an obscure media advisory firm. which is more than its website reveals it's hard to determine from the website. Exactly. What Rally for its does although it does volunteer quoting we only build movements kind of movements, bowel movements. That will help restore a nation to its. Rightful place. Okay its rightful place. As the shining city atop the hill in quote, he has a bowel movements. That's what they they build. According to the CNBC. Story. According to the story. Raleigh funded by a by rally pack. Conservative political action, committee, run by J Hoffman. Rally packs website is even less informative, one page long and extensively. not updated since two thousand, sixteen year since it features two posters that state and I quote. I checked it to you have to check it server side but. To figure out the data last. Update. Bedding glad. Quoting I heart my country out supposed to be and I love my country I'm ashamed of my government. In quote. That's a twenty sixteen quote. So you know he's probably talking about the Obama Administration. Although rally forged paid for the ads they say in small print. They were paid for by turning point action. You also can't tell from its website, but turning point action is a five. Oh One Ford C. C four excuse me political nonprofit connected with turning point media. which targets college students in those. College students and who stated mission is identifying educate. Educating and. Are GonNA avoid have mercy I'll start over. turning-point media which. College students and those. Whose stated mission is, identifying education. Edge it. Okay I'm going on. Point Media and. Action or both founded by young pro-trump Activists Charlie Charlie Kirk. Correct, Charlie Kirk of course is an I'm sorry for interrupting, but I just add some context Charlie Kirk. Has Been. Long. Blocked from giving college speeches because everybody kind of knows the game you know if you follow the young Turks, they follow a lot of what turning point media does and what Kirks action does in this this type of thing and of course, you know the minute he's banned from speaking at a college you know he's starts crying First Amendment. Violation Blah Blah Blah. Blah. So that that's the guy we're talking about. That's Charlie. Charlie Kirk who from his pictures does not appear to be novel. I guess they're. Stating Traditional Navajo whether traditional Loker, whatever whatever. We suspect Hoffman is in either and employees who answered the phone at the nominations. Vital records office said, they can't deny or by tribal membership over the phone and their office remains closed to the public as of Monday. So so in the people who paid for the ad and people who developed the campaign, Arnama? Hope where the NAVAJOS for trump referenced in the hands. Was We are they. The rest of this will be in the show notes. You have to know that things like this are being targeted at people's of caller claiming to be trump supporters to. To try to. The bide that's what it's meant to do. And it's pretty sad. And then. Later, conquer by the way is. Other words some guests get them fighting over. Who should. Be President DEMOC. Indigenous Democrats versus indigenous Republicans get them fighting against each other and then when we re ruined the presidency meaning that in pro of trump camp, we're gonNA turn right around and we're going to continue doing what we're doing such as lowering regulations at the federal level so that they can't fight back that the can't fight for their sacred A. As a sacred sites and other types of things we're going to continue to increase. Production Fossil fuel on their lands, and we're GONNA continue to make it harder and harder for them to Portland into trust. We're going to continue to make it harder and harder for them to do businesses. We're GONNA take a hard look at the Indian Gaming Casino Industry and Blah Blah Blah Blah tall coming you. All coming. Juries. The. Best. If you don't agree with me and you're out of any country and I know that drives that are drilling on their own lands, I understand that. Okay. But it's coming. It will allow you to continue to drill if you play ball with them. That's the key you gotta play. Ball. By by-in-large. Lack you or us. You got play ball or stay. GotTa stop drilling and then they're gonNA take it. That's the key. All right we've been on. Tireless article is Bryan Brown Brian Lightfoot Brown. Excuse me oldest recorded Powell in North America. Meet covid nineteen. Of course, it was written by Brian Life what Brown who's from the Narragansett or as I come to understand through pronounced Indian nation out of Rhode. Island. Ryan was on our show once a while back. In. The article here reasons is pretty sad? This year has been unusual to say the least. As twenty twenty has moved on with the worldwide pandemic native Americans are among the groups who have been the most ravaged and most overlooked. Cultural and Social gatherings have been forced into cancellations in social distancing variations. Tribes struggled to protect their communities and at risk members of those communities. Even annual powwows are being canceled or at least done in virtual online manner. Attending, powwows time may seem trivial, but they are the biggest chance to bring as many tribal citizens together. Such is the case for the Narragansett tribe of Rhode Island. This August eighth and ninth twenty twenty was slated to be the three hundred and forty fifth annual green. Annual fest of Green Corn or their August meeting powwow. Miss Going August meeting the oldest recorded powwow in north. America. Held in Charleston Rhode Island on the tribes reservation by the oldest excuse gives me by the old and air against Indian church. This Paulo used to be closed off to the general public until the nineteen fifties unless invited as a special guest. The actual word quote Powell comes from an English alteration of the NARRAGANSETT WORD PA or PA. Wa which meant. A spiritual leader. Europeans may have interpreted the word to mean a form of gathering as it's known today. Anyway. The NARRAGANSETT have held this August meeting one of thirteen Thanksgiving celebrations they honor throughout the year. On the second weekend of August and have done. So since pre contact. In twenty twenty tribal leaders have decided to cancel the Powell dishonesty precautions and to prevent large gatherings. This saddens many Narragansett people but health concerns are at an all time. High admits the coronavirus. The NARRAGANSETT or a group who are at risk, but often find themselves swept under the rug or put on a back-burner and forgotten about by the outside world. So, twenty twenty will not see Narragansett people coming home this weekend to spend time at the Powell. However, the idea of virtual event online could be one way. To still connect for this power. Several of the tribes and indigenous organizations. Have done this and have been successful. Anyone who would want to still dance Regalia or drum and sing can still record themselves doing. So in sharing it to the PAO event page on facebook. It's not the same. But it is one option to maintain this annual tradition at least in some form. Anyone interested can go to a link and I won't read it but the link will be in the show notes for you guys to visit in the incur to please please do. So. That's that. It is but again, it's just another example of how covid nineteen is disrupted every aspect of everyone's life. And and I. Hope I. Hope the virtual event at least happens because. I in my book. It would it would continue the Continua. Even though it's not In the form of that, we would like. You know already canceled our commits and Powell, and you know we have no plans of doing anything like that online but It doesn't have. That legacy that That August meeting does and again, it's just pretty sad so. It is. It is. Well I don't have anything else for today brother. Knowing, do I bag is empty bag is all right Just, glancing back through chat we really appreciate you guys so much great feedback of in this episode today from everybody if we appreciate it, we we would. We love to see more of that. If possible we we completely understand Sometimes people might be. Afraid to comment on something you know we we understand that to The other thing we would like to mention it is is that if you wanna comment on something but not want us to share it publicly please let us know in the email and So. We do have a few people that have done that and we definitely respect that in and do comply with that. So same goes for audio as well if you if you leave a voicemail. Lettuce at. Some point in the audio that you don't want that shared and we won't talk. But at least we'll know how you feel so So please keep that in mind as well. we. Do. Respect. Everybody's position on that and so. All right I'M GONNA go ahead and plus out here. So. again, the ways that you can reach us here in the show hosts with an S. host at native opinion dot com, you can reach us out at twitter at native opinion out there are facebook page it's facebook dot com forward slash native opinion podcast and our website of course native opinion dot. com. My Name is Michael Kicking Bear I am a citizen of the Mashantucket Pequot Tribal Nation here in Connecticut The Guy. Down South for me he is. David Gray Al Citizen of the O. Cherokee tribe of Alabama thank you so much for your time your patronage and your love blessings. We appreciate each and every one of them and each and every one of you. Definitely again, thank you to everybody in chat for participating. Thank Badger and anti for your voicemails that we played today and like I said, give them coming. Let us know how you would like them conveyed and we'll be sure to comply and do that. So. Again thanks everybody have a great rest of the weekend and. Look for another episode for most on Wednesday of next week. Take care. Bye Bye. Bye B. Well Donna dot go honey.

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