3 Episode results for "twenty five cup"
Chef David Chang
"This message comes from. npr sponsor. Ibm when deciding how and when to safely return to the workplace. You need to be informed. That's why ibm watson helps you. Prioritize employee safety with watson works visit. Ibm dot com slash. Watson works to learn more from whyy in philadelphia. I'm terry gross with fresh air today. David chang who has won james beard awards as a chef and restaurant tour. His first and best known restaurant is momofuku. The food was influenced by the food. He grew up with who they used to embarrass him. His parents are from north korea. He's opened restaurants in new york. La vegas toronto and australia. He's had to close a couple because of the pandemic he's had bipolar disorder for many years and credits cooking and his restaurants with saving his life later will listen back to my nineteen eighty nine interview with travel writer memoir east and historian jan morris. She died last friday. She was ninety four when she started writing. She was known as james mars. She completed transition surgery in nineteen seventy-two and wrote about it in nineteen seventy four memoir conundrum. My guest david. Chang is one of the most celebrated chefs restaurant tours in america because of the pandemic he's had to shut down some of his restaurants and rethink the others. His first restaurant momofuku was named the most important restaurant in america by bone. Apetite in two thousand thirteen. It opened in two thousand and four and a small storefront in manhattan is and became known for rama noodles pork bones and it's casual atmosphere since. Then chang open more than a dozen restaurants in new york. La vegas. toronto and australia is one five. James beard awards including best new restaurant and outstanding chef. He hosts the netflix series ugly delicious which focuses on foods and the cultures or mix of cultures that they derive from he's also written a memoir called. Edp each as you'd expect. The book is filled with insights about food and restaurants but he also shares his insights about himself. His parents emigrated from north korea. When china was growing up he was embarrassed by the foods. They ate and how their kitchen small different from the kitchens of his friends families he has. Bipolar disorder has frequently dealt with suicidal thoughts and credits cooking and his restaurants with saving his life. Thank you again. David for being here. So david you have so many restaurants. How many have you had to close because of covid and how many are open. Well first of all terry. It's a real honor to be part of your show and It's a hopefully people learn something about the restaurant business for myself but in terms of the restaurants that we've had to close we've closed to in one in washington. Dc one in new york city. And we've had to temporarily relocate another so all in sort of three and hopefully that number doesn't increase. How are the ones that you're keeping open managing to stay open. Because i think what you have to say we'll be indicative of what other lot of other restauranteurs would say. Well it's a little bit difficult right now Because it's weather dependent as winter is hitting most of the east coast and outdoor dining was a a great boon to everyone but as winter approaches. It's a little bit hard. You're talked a lot appears. Sales have gone down quite a bit and at the beginning of the pandemic Those that were doing delivery and pivoted to delivery focused menu really did well but when everybody pivoted to that cell sorta decrease so We're all in this together and we're all trying to figure it out and our restaurants do the same. We're we're doing anything and everything To to stay afloat and to keep as many jobs as possible but we've had the advantage of having consumer product goods over the past few months. We've been selling salt and spices and soy sauce that we've developed over the past decade plus so we had that plan in place but not everyone is fortunate to have that are you doing. We're like delivery. And how does it feel to be doing. What would you like. what don't you like about it. i I've always wanted to do delivery. You try to deliver your failed. They did they did. Maybe the timing wasn't right. I think it would have been a a great opportunity now but i. I'm fascinated with delivery because it's another way for restaurants to sort of have a revenue stream. And i feel very strongly seven eight years ago that if we didn't diversify restaurants in general didn't diversify. We were too dependent on the income of the four walls. The happening in restaurants so as much as i don't always want to have restaurants that deliver food. We all have to embrace it. I think it's here to stay and it was going to happen. A lot of what's happening right now with restaurants we're going to happen was going to happen over. Attended fifteen year period. But we wouldn't have notice all this seismic shifts with restaurants closing and restaurants. Moving to delivery or take away would have happened so gradually. You wouldn't have noticed but delivery and food logistics with your smartphone. That's here to stay. And we have to find a better way because right now a lot of restaurants. You've been making money doing that. Because of the delivery fees from the the people that do the delivery services aren't taking big cut when you started in the restaurant business Well you studied at the french culinary institute you worked at cafe glued is fine dining authentic french cuisine kind of fancy restaurant in new york. And you decided that you weren't cooking the kind of food that you eat and so you decided to give up on that kind of fine dining What was the turning point for you in deciding that that wasn't few because a lot of chefs aspire to that kind of fine dining And you you headed in the other direction. We'll tell you. I was just so lost. I didn't know what i was doing. And i think if i was better at cooking and compared to my peer group especially the restaurants i was in. Maybe i would have only cook french food. But so much of how. I've wound up today was because i didn't sort of fit in and i've had to find my way and get some kind of expertise that no one else had and one of the reasons i wanted to get out of french. Dining was or a fine dining in general was traveling abroad and for me the piff any was. Oh my gosh. In asia in japan in a city like tokyo so expensive. I i never would have thought that people of all sort of whether you're poor or rich everyone can eat really well in china. When i was in china you could eat literally on seventy five cents very well. But you couldn't do that in america and i. I thought to myself if you wanted to enjoy food in america in the late nineties early arts if you told anybody i like to go out to dine that was seen as elitist and snob est. And that wasn't the case outside of the world. And that's when i tried to imagine what's the delta here in america right wise food only accessible or delicious for the people that can afford it. Why don't we have a little bit more accessible. So what was the secret to figuring out what kind of food you can cook. That would be delicious and very affordable well again in japan two different times live there Rahman was something that i. I've always grown up eating noodles. But rahman was something that was the providence of college students and twenty five cup of noodles. And when i i was so lucky with timing and so many things in my life i saw japan. Even this renaissance of robin where it was as the fervor voronin was like pizza and barbecue and hamburgers combine. And i was like wait i tasted. It's like nothing i've ever had before people queuing up for two to three hours of certain spots but why this doesn't exist in america and i was like well. I bet you this would be popular in america too. That's why i was like okay. Let me just try to do something. That doesn't really exist quite yet in america and i didn't know if it's going to work you had to make the rahm special cylinder do i didn't make it. Japanese use only american ingredients. Because i too much respect for japanese ingredients and also i couldn't afford it either. The very best stuff in japan is going to be very expensive. So i wanted a tailor. It so is a little bit more of an american palate. So we used bacon from tennessee. Madisonville tennessee alan. Benton was our analogy for analogous ingredient to say katsuyoshi the central ingredient to dashi in japanese cuisine. So we just tried to mix and match and find things that were comparable and also not skimping on quality. We were getting the very best bacon and making a profit out of that so it was. It was trial and error. I say some interesting things about authenticity. You know like you're not you're not into authenticity. And i want you to explain why you're talking about borrowing from asian food but making it american and not calling it fusion. Well everything is sort of fusion anyways. But i just. That was a word that i've sort of had as a burden to sort of carry now. Embraced it because everything is fusion and It is the polar opposite of what authenticity is in food and i find authenticity to be very stifling. Very it's about preserving one idea one way of deliciousness. And i think that can be a very dangerous thing. You know what is acceptable. And what isn't and who gets to decide. That is scared to me. And that's not to say that authenticity can't be delicious but the but the only way you can make a certain food that is problematic to me and the only time i find authenticity to be good is when you have to preserve a culture you have to preserve stories that are helping immigrated from another culture those are things that need to be cherished and we need that kind of authenticity. But what i love about. Food is diversity. I love change and anything that you eat that was quote unquote. Authentic wasn't before it was an amalgamation of different stories in different immigrant stories. Like that's what's beautiful about food. It can be anything and everything. And i love the new. And that's what makes american cuisine. So wonderful it can be anything. And i wanted to try to do something new so a lot of your food has a korean influence even though it's not like authentic korean food But when you were growing up. I think korean food was real source of embarrassment to you. You were embarrassed by by your kitchen. Smelled kids used to make fun of you for. How did your kitchen smell on. What made it smell that way. Man growing up. My kitchen smelled a lot lot of different things. I remember tripe if you've ever cooked tripe at home and kills. Oh man my mom. My mom used to make trump all the time. And that's just not something you anybody's going to want to like smell or taste explain. Explain what type is a kind is a stomach lining their several stomachs account. It's it's a basically the stomach of a cow stomach lining of a cow and it has a very peculiar smell and it can be made very delicious. But you know it wasn't just try it for the most part it was something like kimchi or all the fermented goodness in korean cuisine. And even something. Now that people love today is keen the korean seaweed snack that you can even buy at your convenience store or pharmacy. I see being sold. I remembering that to school for lunch because i loved it. I snack on my entire life but as a kid you open up your lunch box and you bring out something that looks like that seaweed. Imagine in one thousand nine hundred eighty four kids. What is that. And you say it seaweed. They're like ooh that's gross. That's the nice version of people making fun of your food. Wait till they smell. Kimchi dang john or any of these from minted. Goodness things that people would make fun of me and they said every possible. And it's not just korean food terry. It's a story that anyone. That's an immigrant to america can share right. It's all the foods that most people have no idea but now in twenty twenty everybody finds delicious so it's just funny how it all plays out. So both of your parents are from north korea and they. I mean they're family. Lived before the north and the south became separate entities. And i think your grandfather was alive when japan invaded korea on basically tried to make korea into a satellite of japan. Have everybody assimilated into japanese culture. You thought you were eating. Korean food was japanese food or korean food or some mix of the two. It was a mix but my grandfather came from a wealthy family. My father came for like nothing. My mother came from a very prominent family and like many. Well do young men. He was educated to be japanese. He didn't like korean food. You went to college in higher education. All in japan and you know japan colonized korea like systematically tried to program anything that was like from the language on up to the food that you make or eat so my did not like korean food at all. He didn't he never ate kimchi. He never ate that things so he always had japanese things made for him. I was introduced to japanese food at a very early age. Threw him and i think it's a main why. I have such an affinity for japanese food because my grandfather was basically you know. He's korean. spokesman had korean friends but like in his heart think is more japanese than he was korean. And when i came back from japan and japan was much better back then. He was so proud that he could talk. Speak japanese to be so happy when your parents emigrated from north korea. What was the state of north korea. And where they lived. What did they have. What did they lack. When came here so my father was born on. What is now. The border. North korea and china. My mother was born a little bit closer to what is now. The thirty eighth parallel town called kiss on and you know they had to. They like most people fled to the south and they lost everything and korea is remarkable. How people think about created today but that progress and the success. They've had i think people forget. Just how poverty stricken korea was they lost everything and i forget even myself that my parents were refugies. The you know for a long time. They they lost everything and they. My dad emigrated to new york in nineteen sixty three to work as a dishwasher because life was so hard better opportunity was going to be in america. And that's how it all happened. And he came back and he married my mother and my i think my mom came back to america in sixty eight or sixty seven. So do you think often about the distance between the lives that they had because they they live through the korean war right. Yes they did. Yeah so do. Do you think often about the distance between the lives. They had in north in north korea and then south korea when they lost everything and live through war. What it was like raising you in in suburbs. You know now that. I'm a father i think about it in a completely different way than i was growing up and when i was a kid i was just so angry at why they couldn't raise us like normal. You know white. America and if it wasn't even then i remember my my my dad's mother staying with us for short period of time and how how mean she was and how frugal she lived and how i just was not just embarrassed about food embarrassed by how they were raised. And i didn't want to be like that. And i'm remorseful of not trying to understand that as at a younger age and what they lived experiences. They had just a cultural difference. They had to overcome like my parents wound up in northern virginia. You know in the early seventies i. I'd imagine what that was like or even from my dad who lived in new york. My dad hated new york city. You visit me occasionally. But he hated it. Because of the trauma he had living there as a as a kid in his early twenties. That didn't speak english in the sixty early sixties. I can't imagine how hard that must have been so the older. I've gotten the more i'm moved by all. They had to sacrifice a win through to to to give the family everything they need it but to put some perspective on your anger you tell a story in your memoir about how in new you're playing in a go kart and I guess it overturned your leg was really injured and for five days. You're saying it hurt. It hurt your crying and your father said just walk. And he'd put creamer ointment on it and five days later when your parents finally took it to the hospital you had a badly broken femur which was while you're in so much pain and you know you were so angry at the way you're paying was not taken seriously and that nothing was being done when your leg was in serious jeopardy so i guess that's just one example of why you grow up with so much anger towards your father It's hard for kids to understand the kind of perspective that you were just talking about but it is just like that anger really stuck with you though for for forever for. Unfortunately it did and i. I mean i'm trying not to be me. That's that's my mantra. Don't be me and so much of. It was an excuse to be angry in the past. And i'm trying to have a better understanding not as a an excuse for anything but i've really thought about. That's one story right. I broke my leg. My dad would not let me go to the hospital over a few days and with my i mean. Ics psychiatrists and that's a lot to unpack. Because now that. I'm a father. I can't imagine letting my son not see a doctor. If he broke his leg or got sick so it caused me to evaluate like that my love his love for me was conditional right that i did something wrong but when i think about it more as terrible as that sounds at twenty twenty and it is terrible. My father was just trying to teach me how to be tough and how to survive. And when i think about it in relation to his mother right who stayed with us she she. This is a funny story. She would wash dishes. My brother and i would like go. Check out crazy grandma. Is she's washing dishes. By spew spitting water out like watching like this because she had no running water before and it was about conserving water and that was the easiest way for her to wash dishes and every time she'd make rice every colonel would be dried on the deck. And we'd be like what are we doing. And she'd make us eat it later but she was just trying to teach us how to survive. And when you're little kid you can't understand that. And if that's how she's we're. I imagine how she raised my father. And you know it takes a lot of empathy that i've tried to have a bigger reserve of to pre shit and to understand all the things i never understood about my father and i'm still going through it so in some ways i'm more angry than ever and my dad in some ways i've forgiven him and it's gonna be process. I should mention. He died in june. I'm sorry and i hope you got to like work. Some of those things out with him. we did. We did and he lived a full life. My guest is david. Chang chef restaurant tour and host of the netflix series ugly delicious. His new memoir is called. Edp each we'll talk more in the second half of the show and will listen back to my nineteen eighty-nine interview with travel writer and memoirs jan morris. Her nineteen seventy four memoir. Conundrum was about transitioning to female. I'm terry gross and this is fresh air. this message comes from. Npr sponsor capital one. Welcome to banking reimagined capital. One checking and savings accounts have no fees or minimums and a top rated banking app. That lets you manage your money anytime anywhere. Check on the account. Balance deposit checks pay bills and transfer money on the go. This is banking reimagined. What's in your wallet capital one. Na member fdic. Let's get back to my interview with david chang. He's james james beard award. Winning chef and restaurant tour is most famous. Restaurant is called momofuku. He also hosts the netflix series. Ugly delicious in his new memoir. Eat a peach. He writes about food restaurants his childhood. His parents are from north korea. Any writes about his inner life. So you mentioned that. You're you're troubled You you were diagnosed with bipolar disorder. And of course you had it before you were diagnosed with it so you didn't know you didn't really have an understanding. I suppose of what you were dealing with and you you went through a very long depression you write about like you're suicidal thinking during that period when we didn't really understand what you were dealing with and you had like months of depression and you're thinking Thinking about suicide. You didn't want to hurt your parents by actually doing it but like how. How serious were you in in your thinking. Is that too personal to ask. Is that no. I mean to ask. It's not an appropriate and in part of the reason why i want to talk about. This is so we can talk about these serious subjects. That people never want to talk about and it's hard to find You know stories that people can relate to and it's my story and i'm always careful talking about depression because it never want to see it as prescriptive for anybody else but for me. I reached a point in my life. Where i just couldn't find meaning in anything. Was this before you were cooking. Or after when i was in japan that was my first serious manic bats but when i came back as a cook when i was working at a balloon that was probably the lowest point i've ever experienced and it's hard to explain to anybody that would question. Why would you feel so bad. Like come on. Just step outside. I can talk about it now. In a way that i never was able to talk about when experiencing it. Because i know it's it's not my fault. It's a chemical reaction my brain or a lack of certain things that are working in my brain and there are certainly other factors involved culturally. There's things happened my life with my father my upbringing and it's hard to want to live as crazy as that sounds right and you just think about all the different ways you can end it and the craziest thing about depression to me after all these years is when you're in a state of serious depression all you do is think about yourself. That distorts things are so sensitive to hurt in your self. Confidence is at all time. Low self esteem at an all time low. But you're simultaneously thinking that everything you think is the right thing weirdly. You're convicted convinced enough that anything you think is right in true. And it's this weird paradox. And i went through all of it and i. That's why i try. I tried to hurt myself in ways. That didn't look like suicide. And i reached a point in my life where i had no reason or experience to open up a restaurant but it reached a point where i literally was like life or death is like a scenario like the worst thing is death and the second thing is hurting other people along that road. The other thing is like everything else. Okay right and for me. It was okay. If i what's the worst thing. What's the worst thing i can do. Okay that okay. Let's think about that. Before i choose to do that. Let's try to do things that i would never do once restaurants kind of saved your life. Then you felt like you'd become addicted to work that you were like working constantly And What does it feel like in your life. Do you feel like work has become an addiction. What did it feel like you know it felt. it's i. I'm still working through it and i had a conversation with my wife last night. And she's like gotta stop. You gotta stop. You know. All i wanna do is provide for my family and that's ultimately what my father wanted in the last thing i wanna do is raise my family and my child the way i did my father but i could still get the same result if all i do is work and i'm trying to break these habits. It's really hard and you know in the book. I say the weird thing about work is that the last socially acceptable addiction and the bottoming out in work addiction. Is that the peak of your career. You know it's it's the craziest was so perceptive when you wrote that because usually like an in memoirs or people talk about their lives and they talk about bottoming out with an addiction. It's the lowest point of their life. They're not functional anymore. But like you say if you're dictate to work the peak of your career is when you're most addicted. It's it's it's a it's a it didn't really hit me until i would say a few years back. Probably like ten years into running momofuku. My my mom and dad was like they wanted to screw me up in the ad before. They really did a good job at this moment when they said you have to stop working so much and i was like what. That's what i was like. This is this tracy. If they're telling me. I'm working too much like i have reached a new level and the hardest part tarry too and this memoir and my work addiction is. It's my perspective. And i think along the way i can rationalize anything in my addiction to work and proving people wrong and getting to my goals and reaching the metaphorical mountain top and as a culture. I feel like we've put such a premium on doing that. And the sacrifices worth it right. And now i see that i heard a lot of people along the way and my book only represented some of those stories. Some of those people have reached out to over the years former employees family members friends. When you're on the single-minded track to get to where you wanna go you know it's borderline sociopathic to be like. Yeah it's worth it. I'm gonna do this even though you know what i mean. I'm gonna keep on going. Keep on going and we sort of celebrate that at least i internalize it as that. It's worth it. You gotta get there. You gotta do it and you get there and you realize what the hell was i doing. And that's where i'm at right now. Is i hope. I've done more good than bad and and i think that i have what i ask for forgiveness for the people i've wrong i have to earn you know. Let me say that in book. You say that at some point you hired like an executive coach who is going to give you feedback about how to be a better executive and your restaurants better and the i i think the first thing. The coach said to you It's amazing how long people have worked with you in your restaurants because they hate you. I'm thinking you've probably paid a lot of money to hear that but that must have really hurt to hear about. How did you change after after hearing that. And why were they feeling. So discontent with you. Because i was a horrible boss and i ruled with fear and commands and like your father brought you up. That's the hardest thing is. I spent my entire life making sure i would never be like my dad and i wound up being exactly like my dad to so many people and i just couldn't see it and a lot of the book is about perspective and seeing these things and facing that and realizing that just because i understand. That now doesn't mean that you know i. It doesn't rationalize anything. I have a different perspective. And i have to change that and and that was hard to know that everything i did for a long period was if it's good for me it's good for the restaurant and it's good for the people that work for me and i have that line and then you realize that was. That was just the i could convince myself of anything and again that can be very powerful thing for good and for bad. So you were. We were talking earlier about You know suicidal thinking you your friends your friends with anthony bourdain and he died of suicide the day before your wife found out that she was pregnant. And you'd been trying very hard to get pregnant I have to say. There's so many examples that i've seen in my life. Were a beloved person dies and the wedding is right afterwards or you know some celebration is supposed to come right. Afterwards or child is born right afterwards. And i don't understand exactly why i mean. Obviously i don't understand why it often is that way but it just seems to often be that way but i mean. Did you an ordained talk about suicidal thinking that something you shared with each other. yeah Tell me it is but it's important to talk about and Tony was a big brother to me and You know it was crazy thing when we found out when gray scott actually when we were when the when the pregnancy actually took place. I couldn't believe the timing of it. All it was just so crazy because we have been trying so so long and Tony thought that. I would have been you know. I mean like he would. He was always worried that i was going to hurt myself. And that's the problem. Is i always thought that tony. Tony was a strong one. Tony was invincible and know a lot of people are coastal. Maybe feel the same way that that we should've asked him how he was doing. A little bit more and actually there are always signs. If you think about it. And i feel a lot of guilt. Because i want to tony to be in service of me. And it wasn't exactly the you know reciprocated. And he was always worried about how troubled i was and i never once thought that i know but tony white knuckled everything i mean he was. Who's tony dane. And tell he wasn't. And i think if anything it's a it's a reminder to anyone that just because someone is doing well and has a has everything going for them right the job. The the family the looks the fame. Whatever doesn't mean that they're not going through something. I should mention here in the first episode of the second and most recent season of ugly delicious. It's all about children. Having children feeding children And we see in that episode. You and your wife telling your parents the news that that she was pregnant. And there's just this explosion of joy from your parents your mother system tears and So i if. I want to call our listeners and viewers at attention to that. It's a. It's a beautiful moment but i didn't realize i mean you know what what a lot to go through in the course of twenty four hours euro. Terry that kind of emotion was one of the purest things i've ever experienced and i was so happy whenever told me that telling someone else that your partner is expecting would bring kind of emotion. And that's when. I knew that there was more to life to live right. There's more emotions to seek out. And i was so glad to give that to my parents. My guest is chef and restaurant tour. David chang his new memoir is called edith. Peach will continue our conversation after a break. And let me also mention this. If you've been dealing with serious depression that has led to thoughts of suicide or know someone who is there are people you can contact for help at the national suicide prevention lifeline. You can call them at eight hundred two seven three talk. That's eight hundred two seven three talk or eight hundred two seven three eight two five five. This is fresh air support for this podcast and the following message come from e-trade trading isn't for everyone but each rate is whether it's saving for a rainy day or your retirement you trade. Has you covered. They can help you check your financial goals off your list and with a team of professionals giving you support when you need it. You can be confident that your money is working hard for you. Get more than just trading with each raid. To get started today visit eatright dot com slash. Npr for more information each rate securities llc. Member finra sipc. Let's get back to my interview with james beard award winning chef and restaurant tour david chang. His new memoir is called. Eat up each. i'm thinking about how much your life has changed in the past year. Your son was born a little over a year ago and then not long after he was born the pandemic starts and you know new yorkers shutdown. La shutdown your closing restaurants. You're working lot from home at the same time you're a new parent your cooking. More at home So i don't know in in in some ways has the pandemic enabled you because you're not flying around to your restaurants and sydney or toronto or new york and your home so much of time enabled you to spend more time with your son at a time when you might not have been able to. I wrestle with a lot because this year has been so hard. And i've been so blessed and privilege and i need to understand all of the goodness that i have in my life and it's terrible things have been. I'm weirdly strangely. Grateful because i don't think any other juncture or any other scenario i would have been able to spend this much time with my family and It's made me reevaluate so many things you know. And i want to be present in. And i've been telling myself so much this year that winning is losing and i wanna find ways where you know just yesterday for example. You know there's stuff going on at work. And i was having dinner and i immediately had to like immediately jumped in work mode and i talked to my wife later. And she's like. I understand why you have to do this. But you still always care more about work than your own family. And i want that emotion to be equal to my family. And it's not there. And i'm mad at myself for that. That work can come in and i'm so dedicated to work. I'm i'm so grateful for the team. We have momofuku. With marguerite allan the whole team that i wanna make sure that they're not let down and i'm helping them out and their family too but this is an opportunity for me to be the best version of myself for my family and that's the most important job. I can have an tell myself that. So i i read and i couldn't believe that this is true the until the pandemic you hardly cooked at home. Could that possibly be true. Oh man a lot of professional chefs. Never ever i mean for me and a lot of people. i know. it's just the last thing you wanna do when you come home or on your day off cook when you order out pizza all the time or any. Yeah yeah. I just never cooked in my first apartment. I always actually unplugged the oven. I turned off the gas just with storage because and even on plates until literally when my wife moved in with me. I had to buy plates. And i'll be in ridiculous. What do you cook for yourself and your family. I love cooking for my son and it's the best way to this day still and that's the one thing why food was so important in my family. One thing where we always could agree on. You know even with our differences of trying to eat something delicious. So i cook breakfast for my son. I cook lunch. I cook dinner. And i took a lot of He likes eggs and rice and rice. He doesn't like any vegetables. He doesn't even like meat. And i'm currently at a place where i'm trying to figure out how to incorporate vegetables like every other parent and i am supremely frustrated at my to out what he wants to eat. But it's a lot of rice and but you know just cooking food or anything like i'm cooking just like anybody else. It's not like how. I cook in restaurants but i i tell you cooking at home and actually cooking for my wife while she was expecting hugo like when she was you know he was in the womb. That's when i realized like oh this is cooking and i had never been in a position where i'm trying to generally feed someone else with love and i just want to nurture them and cooking for my wife was the best and then cooking while she was nursing had new meaning. Now it's feeding hugo and the strangest thing has happened. I now have learned a different way. Of course that i never thought that i never would. It's now changed. How i wanna cook in general. I care more about serving a bowl of soup. That looks like you know just plain old soup but made with love its shares. That is just food with love versus food. That's trying to impress david. I can't tell you what a pleasure it's been to talk with you. Thank you so much and thank you so much for being so open. I really appreciate it. I think it's valuable to hear what you have to say. Thank you so much my interview with david. Chang's recorded last thursday at zoom event produced for. Whyy by emily. Kim slow jiang's new memoir is called. Edp each after we take a short break. We remember travel writer. Historian and memoir. Est jan morris. She died last week at the age of ninety four. Her first memoir published in nineteen seventy four was about transitioning to female. We listen back to our nineteen eighty nine interview. This is fresh air support for this podcast and the following message come from master class. A new year is around the corner for a lot of people that means dusting off a creative goal. Whether it's writing a book starting a garden or trying a new recipe one night a week. Maybe you just wanna take twenty minutes a day for yourself to relax and listen to someone you find inspiring with masterclass you can get intimate access and insight from some of the world's most diverse thinkers with easy stream classes. Listen to writers like david sedaris. Learn from athletes like serena williams or watch shifts like yotam. Ot with an annual membership you get unlimited access to more than ninety masterclass instructors from any device so you can watch at home or listen while you're out for a walk. Whatever your creative goals. There's a class that can help you get inspired this holiday when you buy an annual masterclass membership you get another annual membership free go to master class dot com slash fresh air. We're going to remember travel writer memoir ist and historian jan marris. She died friday in her home country of wales at the age of ninety four until nineteen seventy-two. She was known as james morris. She changed her name to jan at the age of forty six after transitioning to female and having gender confirmation surgery two years later in nineteen seventy four. She wrote about gender in her memoir conundrum. She wrote. I spent half my life travelling in foreign places. I have only lately come to see that incessant wandering as an outer expression of my inner journey. When i spoke with her in one thousand nine hundred eighty nine just published. A book called pleasures of tangled life in the prologue she wrote. There was a time when new to womanhood. She tried to forget that she'd ever lived as a man. But it had grown on her over the years that this was not only intellectually dishonest but rather dull pleasures of tangled life focused on the pleasures that had sustained her over the years. One of those pleasures was indra. Johnny i asked her to explain well androgen. He means to me that. I have shared if not in the president at least in the past a lot of the emotions and the experiences of both genders. And why i say the beginning of the book chief do to make you smile that i Highly recommend the advantages and tragedy. Last says it was that in my experience if you share both the emotions of both sexes. Neither sex is frightened of you. Both sexes are willing to confide in. Nobody thinks your threat and since it seems to me that life in my life anyway has been urged. Consta- surged towards reconciliation and unity. That does seem to me an enormous advantage on in. Life's quest. When you were still writing as james morris you were best known for Being the reporter who climbed mount everest with edmund hillary. You were there with edmund hillary when he scaled to the top. And you're the first person to report it to the press What was the experience like when you got to the top there when you say soda famous you got it right. It was andy warhol's famous fifteen minutes of it but in fact it changed my life. You know I was young and having a even as a sort of Specious success of that kind orders. One holes at choosen attitudes to oneself I was only there similar to write about it. You know And the excitement for me was not so much actually. They're getting this double the mountain as the excitement of getting a scoop as we used in those days to call it anyone ever had you've traveled and written about travel for much of your life. And you think you read in a different style than many american travel writers. Do yes i do and i think the historical reasons for it as a matter of fact yeah. Will you write that. You had to learn to see africa in non-colonial terms what were some of the things you are up against because of your own upbringing that you you had to unlearn when traveling certainly i think the imperial aspect of it because people of my age. I'm sixty three this year. People of my age were brought up in britain to think of the world as ours really added to that is the old english culture rather than our current insular culture which led people back in the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries to go abroad in spirit absolutely of of of slightly arrogant independence and so one went abroad and a spirit of Of of unfair and illicit privilege i remember alan moorehead writing about British offices in cairo joined the war and he said that all of them seem to think they came from very rich privileged backgrounds. Of course they didn't at all the the richness and the privilege came from history and from the empire and we were all it was true of all and that is something that i did gradually like all the rest i when i was young. I went abroad in that spirit. Not exactly of jingoism said if overweening confidence i think it was at the end of conundrum you rode. I've lived the life of a man. I live now. The life of a woman. One day. Perhaps i shall transcend both. Are you still interested in transcending both. And what do you mean by that. I think it's conceivable that i have transcended both as a matter of fact I feel myself to be part of each under both and that seems to be not unhappy situation. Do they happy or unhappy. Not unhappy in between the two rather like these double negative. Why why would you prefer transcending both sexes. Rather than being part of because as i said before it seems to me purpose of of my life anyways is a quest for unity and reconciliation. And that's the beginning isn't it okay. Well i thank you very much for talking with us. Thank you very much indeed. My interview with jan marris was recorded in nineteen eighty nine. She died last friday at the age of ninety four tomorrow on fresh air. We celebrate thanksgiving in good company with conan o'brien last week he announced he'll be ending his. Tbs late night show in june. After twenty eight years of hosting late night shows will lessen back to the interview. We recorded in october. Two thousand nine hundred. I hope you'll join us for fresh. Air's executive producer is danny miller. Our technical director and engineer is audrey. Bentham our interviews and reviews produced in edited by. Phyllis myers roberta shorrock sam brigger lauren crandall had on enron denardo theresa madden. They had challenor and kayla. Lattimore our associate producer of digital media. Is molly seavy nesper. Seth kelly directed today show. We wish you a happy thanksgiving. We know many of you will be unable to celebrate with family and friends because of covid precautions. Please do what you need to do to stay safe and protect the people you love. I'm terry gross. This message comes from. Npr sponsor three m who continues to expand production of the respirators frontline workers need globally and is on track to supply two billion by the end of twenty twenty more at three m dot com slash. Cove three m science applied to life.
"You're listening to the fear film studios podcast network. All Right Ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to another horror vein. The whore. Host city. I'm Dan Fisher. This week we're talking about the one thousand nine hundred sixty Alfred Hitchcock movie. So like Oh. Yes, but before we do that. Like a radio announcer voice to. Look to that came from holy. Like a show host. Stop on a wheel of fortune. GOING CRAZY HERE A. Right turn to come up with new things every week. You know it's kind of hard to do album. Well My, that was loud. Oh! Windows out dude. Neighbors like with the folks going on over there. To Call Belco. Call now. Oh saw what's going on in the world of horror. I don't know if you saw this thing or even if you are a comic book. Do you books I don't think. This question. Not so much anymore I mean I used to really the nano that I like I like to the comic book themed movies. The comic book you know movies and everything and. That pool and okay now. Like like, went out and bought no got it and not in years, years and years. When, you're younger, yeah, Oh, yeah, who's used to read? Conan, the barbarian really wow I did. Yeah and then uh, Spiderman. Can't can't spider. I got Star Wars. Star Wars Yeah yeah a bunch of different ones. You still have any still. Comic Books Or. Really. Yes. I think you should probably send me some pictures because they may be worth money. I thought about that, and I did a little research and I thought the star. Wars would be worth something, but I don't know I can tell you because I'm an expert on that. Okay. I collect. Thirty five cent one and they said Oh. That's a big deal. Then they went back to thirty, but I don't know that it's. You have to send me pitchers. Okay, I'll do that now. Take a look at them and I'll let you okay okay. But anyway. Just. Tied McFarland who is the creator of spawn? He to draw spider-man for a little bit I actually his art, artistry. Really brought Spiderman up to next to the next level. I mean he's just incredible artists, dunedoo joker and Batman and all that to the Dark Knight, and all that no, he. He he just did spider man and then. He got sick a dealing with big corporations and started his own company, which was image comics. And that's where you know. Robert Kirkman did walking dead and. A lot of Big Comic Books Come Out of there, but spawn was like. Huge when it first came out, they sold like one point five million copies of the first issue. Wow, those crazy so anyway. He I guess they Scifi, channel did a documentary about you know him in his life and. All the stuff that he went through. So called. Todd McFarlane like hell I won't. Is the name of the documentary is going to be on Scifi ahead. Channel I guess. And part of. A COMIC CON. This year is going to be online. Not going to have the event, so I guess he's doing a panel. And I guess I'm going to be showing the documentary either. At the panel or before some are but. It's going to be an SCIFIS YouTube channel. I guess July. Twenty Five Cup Yeah. Yes. So kind of excited about that, so the trailers. Vein if you go to our website on their. Check out the trailers prequel. So if you're tabbing farmland fan or a fan of spawn really good comic book but. Wow, his artwork is amazing. It's amazing how it is. It really is yeah. I know who he is absolutely. Not. Many people don't know is just amazing and. That didn't toy industry as well. As a major. Twisted Christmas I. Think so Yeah I. Think you're right, yeah! It with a different. Different type of Care Frost and the reindeer, and all that all twit, they're all jacked up a nal evil, looking okay I thought. That was him Jack. Yeah. They're hard to find now I. Guess they're really. Stuff is I mean his. Anything, he does. Man Turns to gold because he's just yeah an amazing artist. He really push. In I have a lot of his his comic book so I. Just Love His work. I can't get nose I e still by collect some comics. Some no, I do a lot. I, that's like a big thing in my life right now. It's coming books, okay? Yeah I'm a big collector so. I look. More towards a collector stance and so I I. Been doing a lot of research and an an expert, but I know a lot I can tell. You know I can let you know what comic books are worth money and ones which are not and. So. That's why I said. If you have any, let me take a look at them and I can let you know. Okay. It's worth that much crap. Cool all right. That sounds good. Just might have some conflicts that are probably worthless or Probably. A little each I'm sure I. Don't know, but. You never know a lot of people that don't know anything about comic books. They just got this coming in and finding leaders ten thousand dollars. You know just crazy. File. Okay. Look at the look, good Batman number one when it first came out in I, guess in the thirties. that that book is worth like one point five million dollars. Yeah. I mean based on condition to you have to based on condition. It's hard to find in really good condition, but. Yeah, like the first appearance of spider man, and all that stuff, so first appearance of Superman, all the books worth millions of dollars. On Rail. Because they're. Hard to find. And again we got to tear. We're not talking about horror films, but now we're talking about comic book, but this is this is a horror comic and or with no that spawn and yeah. There's supposedly topic Furlan. Going to be doing another spawn movie, and we don't know what's going on with that, but did you like them with? They only made one right. Yeah, they only made one and then HBO did a series on spawn an animated series, which was pretty good so bad you like. I saw the spahn movie. Did you like it or Not Really I, I. There are some aspects that I liked some I did not like Yeah, because I. Big Fan of the Comic Book So. I thought it was just okay. I met a guy at a convention that was born. He was pretty cool. I can't remember his name, but he was pretty cool. Oh okay, Pretty Nice. He's a nice. Guy Cool. So. What else is going on down anything? Diana and I saw the book of ally. That's a good movie I liked. You liked it. That's with Denzel Washington and Gary Oldman liked it. Yeah, yeah. She's like I was just it was on cable like I. Don't know a little while ago and I was flipping through, and I landed on that channel and stay down there for a little while Oh. That looks good. You know like in the middle or something is said well. But we'll watch the whole thing one day, so you know over the weekend. Was that one movie or you know Oh yeah, okay and founded on Amazon. Prime you know video and. We watched it. Yeah. I liked it I mean I knew nothing about it and I. Love those two actors so It's kind of a sci-fi dystopia in this dope. Ian I think right. Yeah. Me Kunas. She's in to. It's been a while so that seen it, but I know I. Remember being a good movie. I liked it. Yeah, it was it was. It was all about the book and everything obviously and. Yeah, so you don't really know all what's going on until the very end and. And then yeah, so I don't want to give anything away, people. It's a good movie, yeah? And, it's not necessarily horror movie, but it's the action thriller Type So. Yeah. So other than that. Just. Because, they didn't like. Don't breathe so. Your Voice. I'm like Oh my God Diana. You're not gonNA believe this. Rabkin like she's like. I know. That it was happened to happen and it happened tonight. Oh my God, are you? She's going to be okay. I just give you a minute. I'll be. Going to be weeks before dying. Forgive me for not like Brio. That's funny. We laughter later at first you know like gearing headlights like just like what? Are you okay, you don't see yourself. You're devastated. I could tell and I was. Just trying to tell the wind right out of my sails just. On like. You know like I'm in the middle of the ocean and got motor on and I'm just like there's no wind it was. Dead Calm. was going to happen when these days I mean I did I. Did I knew you know and that's what makes it interesting. It's going to happen again because I'LL BE A. Great and you'd. It'll probably have lives was just about to say a happen in reverse. Absolutely and I'm like rob, but really. I don't. Keep Pushing Lala land and I know you saw and we're GONNA YOU'RE GONNA. Eventually see it I, like it, but I can't be sure I'll like that. That movie I watched it again. I can't get enough of this serious. I. Is just like the perfect movie. I've never seen a movie. That was so well done in a long time was. Good classic it is that good? It deserved all the awards it again. I know I keep bringing. Guys I know that it's not. How many times have you seen it now? I think I've watched five times in the last couple weeks it's. Mike. Oh my God and it's like in. An Emma Stone. She's so good movie and has it's kind of like now I have like a big crush on her because she is just amazing film. WHO's The guy in it? It's Josh. Heart. Heart. Brian guys'll gosling. That's causing. And he does good to he's. Okay didn't know he could sing and dance. And she does, too. She does she's amazing. Great Voice, Wow! Wow Wow. All right all right I know you keep plugging it and keep pushing die. I'm sure she'd like it so. Check it out like I wanted only do a film festival have rebel thought because in land, and that would just be so mater. Absolutely Yeah. So No, I Okay switching off I'm done. La La Land Shit and counting books, and all this other shit. I know I know, but we still love you. We know you're GONNA. Come back. You can't absolutely. Could you come back? You gotTa love. Ice. Absolutely So. What's the deal with relic I know I keep every week relic. Is it out can watch it. Is it only on a certain channel? Streaming Specific Stream I. I almost rented it because it it went down and priced, but it's still like seven dollars to rent. But see just. TV or I? Don't know if that's just apple I don't know you know what the availability is. As, far as other stuff because I mean it's. Not distributed by IFC nights I'm assuming that you could probably get A. DVD of it, but you. Know if you WANNA, take the chance of buying the movie you haven't seen before. It looks good. That trailer looks good looks terrific, and then You haven't seen it. You should have left either. Left, Kevin, Bacon. Have not seen that. No, okay. I haven't seen it either. Okay but I've heard I've heard. Yeah I know I love Kevin Bacon I do too as I really disappointed neighbor, watch and Wait like Oh man. I probably said this before when we first talked about it but I. AM! Bus. Ie Anna keeps. She keeps me on us. She's like. Don't listen to. Don't listen to what other people say. No surrounding tomatoes. You WanNa Watch it if you want to see it if you think it's going to be good if you like Kevin Bacon just watch the damn movie I'm like. You know I'm I'm like everybody else. It's like. NFL enough people are saying that it's bad. It's probably not that good, but. Then you go well, do I wanNA spend the money. If it's not that good I can wait. And you know maybe eventually come on Netflix or Hulu or something like that. which brings. No No, no, no, no, it just it just it. It brings it. How. Do I say this? It begs the question them. Has In your memory in your recent memory. Has There been a movie? We put a lot hurt a lot of negative reviews. Fantastic and like all my God. What the hell were these people thinking that I can't. I can't think of a movie off hand, but that has happened before. US is terrible terrible. And you go out. Walking anything right. You're like well I. think that's part of it and I. Think we've kind of discussed this a little bit. Is that is the hype? It's. A lot of people movies agent. You expect so much when you go to see it because of the hype that. You can't enjoy the film because you're expecting to be blown away. And of course that doesn't happen because everyone's blown out of proportion. And then the movies that everyone's like. So you go in there, expecting it the sock and not expecting much in you're like. Oh, it's a bad. So I think it has to do with the mental state. You're in when you're watching certain movies. There's. Other movies where they're just fucking fantastic, no matter what. Right. You know it's all on people's tastes, but then I think I think the hype really does kill some movies. Especially, if they have some flaws to it, and they really come out more. you know so. I agree that's my two cents on that and I know I totally agree I do you know? Had they not built this up so much what I have? You know. Felt this way I maybe liked it a little bit more. You know possibly. You know. The, fact that they just hype the Hell I mean obviously Blair which comes to mind, but. Even if they hadn't hype that one I just shoot. And I just simpler, which was just bad movie was just bad. But there were other movies that they did that with two and. Movies like that and a lot of movies lately. Where everyone's on the bandwagon going? Oh, yeah, this is great, and then people don't want to say that. It's bad because they don't want to get. You know people threat trashing them on right. You. Hate this movie you saw we're. Just, didn't like it also respect my you know. My taste and let me not like it because that's the. Way It. Is You know? But, but I'd be curious to see you know maybe next time maybe next week if you can think of. where? People realized man that was terrible rob. Don't even waste your time and you're like. In on maybe watched it, you know. Whatever apple TV you know not in the theater, or maybe it's the theater to who knows later. You watched it. You're like what the hell were they thinking? You know that's happened to me to. Where I go see a movie in the theater and I've seen it with a large crowd and everyone was. Cheering and having a great time, so it's like wow. I, they movie, and then you watch it when you get you know goes home video and don't have that crowd response and you're Kinda like. Movies, not as good. Yeah, so that affects to. Absolutely and that's why I've still you know I mean we need theaters. We nude. In on I know they're hurting right now and I know that. I didn't even when they do. Come back. It's going to be tough because there's not really anything new I think the new law obviously. They pushed Place to? Push quiet place to in a pushed Dammit I, just a Senate tip of my tongue. I was like. Damn anyway. I know they're doing that so that well now when they start to open, it's like people aren't going to be you know. Here's the thing is like a lot of the Hollywood movies have been pushed or have been pushed indefinitely and now they're saying that this is a big opportunity for independent films to really shine because. They're sitting there going. Hey, you got an opening. We'll take it. And we'll show this now. Some movies where you normally wouldn't see in the theater. Wouldn't that be something you're like? Wow, you know I I guarantee you that. If we're open, relic would have been in it, and that would have had no choice they would. They would never been theaters. So. It's kind of like these independents that are just sitting there. Going never would have seen the big screen light of day, because the because the Hollywood is keeping movies because you're like well. If we can't release it now it's it's almost the end of the summer. And I was GONNA come out anyway, so we're GONNA. Keep it to Christmas. Or Nick Simmer. Wow, but then they got to push their whole lineup back so i. don't know it's kind of weird. It's going to be interested. They decide whether or not they're going to put it in the theaters. They might release on straight to on demand. Movies! On the move the money. Doesn't make the money now. Wow. So. Yeah, it's it's going to be definitely interesting. How this whole theater experience is GonNa to work out? Doesn't kill the industry. 'cause I know AMC theaters is really. Struggling I know they are just got some some new financing. The kind of whole out for a while so. That you've heard you've heard that all like when they when they start to reopen. It's not going to be like it was well. No, because he can't feel better, you know. Yeah, that's one thing. But yeah. Let me still a little hesitant ongoing, even with the social distancing, and then you're not gonNa have all these new film until the. Vaccine. It's not going to be normal. It'll be different it'll. Be Different so they're trying to make it work now, but. Change until they get a vaccine for the for the virus. It's not going to be like this. And on that note, we're going to take your take. Okay, so we'll take a break, and then we'll be back and talk about. Coming up right after this break all right, we'll be right back. WHO Fear Film, Studios! PODCAST network. Sh. Kids at your favorite cloud and old world free goethe clown. With brand new show goes funhouse with my good bestest. World Pinky the clown Salo picky. Picky, little showers be careful. We get wild and crazy. We talk about all kinds of things on house, so if you WanNa have a good laugh. But if you're easily offended I wouldn't listen. Anyway! Joining us here on your favorite podcast APP and listen to free. Coast House. Crazy and clowning around all the time. Oh. Spun. With all you freaky kids out there. Shoe. Dog May. You With more horror vein, wholesome horror, your host city I'm Dan Fisher? and. We are going to be talking about. Classic Movie Psycho? Yes we are. In another one of those movies where the soundtrack. Makes the film. All My god Bernard Ride Soundtrack. I. Studied this movie in College when I was in film school? is just an amazing film but. They hitchcock. It said that he had shown a cut of the film to producers. without the soundtrack and everyone hated. Then when they put the soundtrack on it, they weren't fucking ballistic. They went holy fuck. It's amazing. And it's and it's one of the few films. Where you're following, the main character in the main character is. And then you get switched off to another character. Yes. He did that in to live and Dine La. They did that the main character. To the next year there, but. The amazing thing about it is the films the night from nineteen sixty. And it still holds up to today I mean. It's a little slow in parts now and I can see why you know some people would be like it's not as good because of. What people are so used to with kind of a slasher film? But this was like the beginning of slasher films and. I, it was funny because the other day I was talking to my mother. And she was telling me a story. She went on a date with a guy. And the guy took her to see psycho, and she so freaked out by the film. Absolutely you betcha hand. A lot of people talk to when they first saw the film. They have problems taking showers for a long time. It is day. They like still looking over their shoulder to shower, but well before we go any further. I have a confession to me. You don't like it. No I didn't say that. You've ever seen. Well I'm sure. I! Wonder I did. It was a very very long time ago. Okay. So long ago did I didn't remember a lot of it. But you did watch it I watched it Yeah. I watched it last week. So you like watch with kind of fresh is if you have with fresh, is absolutely I I knew about shower seeing. I knew about his mother. And I knew that he wore the WIG and everything. But there were a lot of pieces that just didn't remember. I didn't remember her stealing the money. I didn't remember what happened after he kills her in the shower. I didn't remember the investigator. There's a lot of things the boy the boyfriend I mean I just. I just didn't remember. And you know it had been so long and I just was like. Wow, it's almost like watching this for the first time. I'm not kidding and it was. Just, it's and I'm like wow, this is nineteen sixty. And and the end the. As you just said the soundtrack. It's suspenseful. I mean there's a reason why it's stood the test of time because it is just it keeps. You engaged I. Mean you're Edgy Edgy your seat at least I was I mean I. Really I mean. You know like I said it's. It was like watching it for the first time I mean I. I like all right here comes the shower scene I knew that. I can about that I can imagine. People watching this film because the scour seeing comes out of nowhere you. Could not predict. She gets. Not only murdered in that shower Nokia. He's like he was being very nice to her being very cordial. Our like your house to the mother, but you're not introduced to mother, says you here, right voice and right. Think there's nothing telling you that this mother is potentially dangerous or he is. Right. You think that they're having this, you know. She hears them from the from her cabin. Arguing right and you think that that's you know the mothers. Actually you know browbeating her son and being nasty mean to him and and bullying bullying him, and you have no clue that he's twisted as he is with the Dan. Has This bipolar thing going on? And you get a little bit of it while they're sitting in the in the parlor and she's eat while she's eating. Yeah, he gets a little weird. We stuff in the animals and all that. she she. She makes us suggestion that. He should. Her mother in institution a home so eight-game like get on with it. He changes, and you see a hint of his mother. Come up! Yes! Yes, you're right. Erin, then he us back. See it. It's just real subtle. Yeah and you can see the look on her face like Oh wait. I didn't mean to offend you. Expression on her face is fantastic. It's like yeah. Fuck just happened. Heroes L. Nice and give me a sandwich now is little. Mama's boy that you thought could hurt a fly which they do at the end. Yeah. All of a sudden turns into your you could see. In his eyes that wow! Something's wrong. She could kill you any circuit. Absolutely just back like nothing happened. Again I just kind of suggested myself. You know, we feel a little mad sometimes. yeah. Used it and scream of course. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah you, don't you? Don't see it common. I! Mean obviously I knew everybody knows this hour's everyone's concentrated on the her stealing the money. Absolutely inaccurate to you're like. What he did in the money I know in a whole scene was she's in the room? She left. You think she's going to the bank and the next thing she's in in the and the camera goes right to the money. Doesn't say anything you see the money and the camera turns and shows the suitcase. Didn't have to say a word that's now. Classic filmmaking. Yeah. And in even on her way, you know. She stopped at a stoplight. I Just And then. And then they don't do a flashback. They're just doing. Stuff in her head. That absolutely line that like what was transpiring while sheet all that was fantastic. Fantastic yeah. The flashback it was like she was thinking it and it all. My Hariri actions as she's driving. Law My god fantastic. And then it starts raining. Yeah and then. Bates Motel Bates. Motel Yeah I just my God. What a great movie! It's! You know and then I like I said I didn't know anything I forgot about the investigator and. And? You know how he frames up. All the bad people in the film is. Like or people that are. You know like the the the guy that's buying the house for his daughter. Everyone's Frayn's really close. Claustrophobic feel the same Berlin. She wakes up in the police officers, their claustrophobic shot of the full. Yeah, yeah, yeah, in the same thing when the investigator gets introduced close up shot and he walks into the camera. Terrific. Even her sister is great. L. She's freaking out trying to find you know. Yeah. Oh Yeah I, mean, and then confronts the boyfriend. And then you got it all on your miles. Man, she's like. You look at her and she's really cute and like attractive, and then she starts getting real bitch and you're like. Oh, I. DON'T WANNA deal with that. She's. Starts things like? that. I know. Oh my God holy craff and then Alfred Hitchcock. Cameo love that. Yep Yep I saw him. When he was making these films, he was at at the top of his game psycho. Rear Window Vertigo in the birds, yeah, birds, yeah, okay, amazing, and of course north by northwest, which is I mean that's how removing to. Sign a horror film though horror film, but. As more of a spy movie, really good action movie, but but psycho he could. Hear the opportunity to shoot the movie in color, and he decided to shoot in black and white I think. At that time with great idea to. Do. And I did a when I was in school. I did a paper on the shower scene. And it took them. Three and a half weeks to shoot that. Three weeks. And and if you look at the film. If you look at the shower scene the film the the knife never enters the body not once now it doesn't. Its all implied. Oh, yeah, in the ninety mm it comes in comes across her stomach, and its all implied sound effects and. Trying to find the actual, how many cuts are in hat sequence? It's a lot. But that's why it took so long they had to. They built its own set, so they could get all the different camera angles, and what's really amazing if you really watch the film in that sequence? The cameras you know it. It starts on one side. And she's in the shower should take an in. With the cuts it ends up on the other side where the wall would be. And that. Is when. You see the door open. He kind of her. She the girl in the shower. Goes off to the side where she's gone from the shot. And then you just see the curtain, and that must have scared the crap out of audiences. I bet it did because you can't see the face, but when the shower curtain opens. Is See. The is just kinda like crazy. And then you have the. Oh Yeah. Wow And even before that he's a little creeper. He's looking through the whole new law. Good Yeah! Like. That was all I mean. You know the taboo and films was one absolutely. Audiences are going not because. You got. What's her name? It's gently in Abroa-. Kellyanne Lebron's beginning then they show a toilet which I'd Never Shawna toilet before. and. And then that's shower scene. And not bloody at all compared to today's standards. Now it's not. which has been blown everywhere in a regular would've film and you don't need it. Did it. Bother you that maybe she would've. There would have been more blood. Would have been more blood, but was it necessary? No. Still, you still get the same impact. And that's the beauty about black and white film. Yeah, the blood doesn't really come out and it's not. It's not something. People focus on the blood. But. It makes you focus on the horrific act. Yeah that's true I think it works better that way, and that's just my opinion, but that's true. The that's the genius of Hitchcock. He's just. An amazing amazing film then. Of course after she gets killed, where's the camera? Go right to the money. That's I know sitting right there and he has no idea. He puts it in the car. The car and it's like okay. There's a there's forty thousand dollars. Right into the swamp. Thousand House with a lot of money. It was pep bought. I bought a house. probably a nice one. You know you spend that house for this I. Never never carry as much as I can lose forty thousand. I know right can. You. My God. She's like yeah. We're GONNA take his money book. This gay I just I'd forgotten all of fat. The beginning and everything, and then you know when they got to the hotel in the shower. Yes, but yeah I just. So good. Oh my gosh. I know Anthony Perkins to You know almost perfect for the raw i. can't see anyone else playing it. He's got the look he's sprayed. Just the way he. Does the part It really is really fantastic performance by him. and. He didn't really do anything much. After that. I can't remember any other mood identity disner sequels. Yeah, he did oh. Yeah, and that was funny because I watched psycho. And then, I watched like two. Good I love cycle to. It's not as good as psycho obviously but. For a sequel. As an actually really good story I liked and he's and he's in it. He's in it and it takes place twenty years later. From what happened in psycho, so he's just getting out of the institution. At the beginning of sector saying yeah, okay, so it's like A. It's a direct sequel as like what would happen if. He got Lou got released. And that's what happened and what's great is they have bureau miles in psycho to as well? And she's. She's the one in the courtroom when she's when he's getting released going. Why are you releasing? He's a murderer. Kill you. Kill my sister, all not no way. Really good movie. If you ever get a chance to see, I would recommend, and then they make a third one, and he made a third one that Anthony Perkins was in, and he directed. is at an anchor. It's okay it's just more of A. Just like a slasher movie. Takings at the hotel. Bad, but there's nothing really too much to it. And, then that's it. And I think that's it I mean they remade. They did. It was in color got when that came out. And in had Vince Vaughn as anything perkins. Part really, it was the first movie. Was it. Any good I didn't see it because why the fuck would you WanNa, make a direct sequel. I mean it's actually a remake is remake and its shot for shot. All it is the original, but with different characters and it's. Modernized in. No really not going to doing the color. Fact that they wanted to Redo those showers with all the blood. Gotcha? Okay! Yeah. Okay, well I'll check out the sequels then so. Yeah definitely check out at least psycho to. Like I said it's got an interesting twist at the end of story. Because pretty much Vera Miles. Character is trying to get revenge on. Norman on Norman is the boyfriend you know that the other guy is he n? No, just be okay. Tilles in it. Tilley, Jennifer Tilly sister. Okay. I rolls you really young and. So what year would this Ben when it came out? Would you say psycho to? Eighties! Eighties Okay Yeah, so it was twenty years later, so it was one thousand, nine, hundred eighty. Two was actually twenty years later. From the original movie from the original tea was in in prison for twenty years and. All that he's. He's real. He's you know he's not sick anymore. The psychiatrist you know dinners job. Never thing okay, and he's actually you know. Not Crazy anymore. Interesting, yeah? and. They're trying to make them crazy again because they want back in jail. So it's really good movie oh wow. It's written by Tom Holland. The guy that did. Friday. Okay all right. I have to check it out. Okay? Definitely had a movie. Surprise me when I saw. This, but then heard a lot about it. All right and I saw it in the theaters. I was like blown away. I was like oh I mean it's not like I said. Not as good as the first one, but it's good, but it's good okay where it's at least. Worth watching. Okay so. No I just I again. It was so just so exciting to wash it. Watch it with fresh eyes, and you know like I. I knew you're like what? What I told you I was like well. I gotTa tell them and. I just. The Music Yeah van it just. And I just love that you know the era and you know the payphones and you know. Just it was such a different time fan. Just I love that nostalgia feel the cars and the way they dressed and everything and just the register at the hotel. You know the signing in I. Think some hotels still do that navy? The older ones you know, not a chain or anything may be but. You know just all that just the feel of the film. I just loved that like the consistency throughout the film of how. People get caught in lies throughout the entire film. Rob Hall I log within the investigator and he caught him, and all those yeah, wasn't they? Let me look it's there. It's like well. You know Janet Lee when she gets pulled over by police officer. You know she's lying through teeth been. Knows it and she goes in. Her. Yes, she goes the by the new car. And the the salesman's gone. What the Hell's wrong with this? Yeah. Right yeah, exactly for A. Customer pressure the salesman sales I loved that Satan and she almost drives off without her bags in that much of a hurry. He has to bring over to, and that tension is throughout the film absolutely, and then you get it to where you have seen it before, so when Noren start doing it, you can relate to him. You know what I'm saying so when investigators going. Seen! This is no. Added off, never seen her. Always. Oh yeah, now I remember. It's tension-filled absolutely. Yeah, I mean it just doesn't stop in the in the. It's a simple thing, but the movie. Everyone's focused on that forty thousand dollars throughout the entire film. They are and Norman has no clue about it. No? No. And that's what the whole thing is is everyone is so concerned? The investigator wouldn't be. They're not really looking for. Janet, lease character really want to have forty thousand dollars. I mean you know this? Is You know if she just turns herself? She just returns the money. You know we'll be fine. You know we just need to find you know find her, and then we'll go ahead and have her. Give the money back and you know as soon as you something and do something wrong. You're already written off. It's not oh. We should find out what happened to her. No, we were trying to find out what happened that forty thousand. Norman, his uncle. What are you talking about forty thousand dollars? I just love it because. Like, she would never do that. Yeah, and then the end, so what happened to the money? Exactly? Thiessen crimes of of this was about money was crimes of passion. Yeah, I was like. I think even even says it's in the swamp. Yeah? I think he might think he mentioned. No I mean even from the opening scene with them. You know fooling around in the. Hotel Room and you know. It's. Like. Oh, my Gosh! Yeah, and then the creepy guy that fi in the house for his daughter and. And then she. You know back in the day when you trust your employees with. The manager even says that you know she's worked for me for ten years or whatever I trusted Chugai. Try when I think any differently you know, and so she just puts it in her purse and the. Team is money is evil. Yeah. Yeah. Really Mean Away out in a in a different life that she was going to see the boyfriend rights. You're GonNa see the that's what I thought. Yeah, and then you know. Hey, here's the money. And because I think he was down on his locker, something something going on, well, he yeah, he got divorced and she took him for his money and he's. He's paying alimony. And he's living at the store. They runs in the eight. That's right that's right, and that's where the sister finds him. Yes, the store Yeah Yeah It's just there's so many layers to it and so much tension and things going on. It's not you know what I mean. Just it's you through this. It's a very simple story, but then you get into the layers, and there's a lot of layers. Yeah, and it's not only what's happening with the the characters. It's all the stuff that then you get into Norman. Anna's mother. And all those layers. Yes Dick. Amy Even even the sheriff. I, mean all that's right when she gets to yeah. When the sister and the boyfriend, the Sheriff knows Norman. He knows all about his background and you're finding out all the stuff it. It's like no one's just put in there just to be put in. Everyone has to stick background and everything's intertwined and everything works. It's a IT'S A. One of the better screenplays that you could study if you were a filmmaker. If you wanted to study a screenplay, this is one of them and you said you did in school. I, did I? Yeah this movie. and it's like I I've seen it so many times, but I just watch it again. It was like I don't want. Even watch it again and it's. Still good movie it still gets you name that I mean. I could see how it could like I said I. mean this was kind of like my first quote, unquote viewing but. I I could totally watch it again. And again, because it's so good, and you know and it just. An hour how many years later it's sixty years sixty years later and Yeah, and that's why we chose to do what I think, too, so yeah. Yeah the sixties. Sixtieth anniversary of. Psycho catch doesn't even seem is coming out and. Blu Ray on a four K. version. And what are they doing that? I don't have dates on that, but We're still trying to find out if they're going to do the uncut version which I had, we had discussed all. Yeah, we discussed that yeah. So when I watched the film I was like this is the cut version. Okay! Okay. Like you said. It's not a lot, but. It doesn't it doesn't take anything away from the film? Just little tiny things, but yeah. Well, that's nice to match to know. I think you'd mentioned it, but yeah the release on Four K. blu-ray. That'll be us if you get to watch movie again. At the very end. If, you really look. When Norman goes I wouldn't even hurt. A fly is looking up. And it starts the search the fade. You see the mother's face over his face the skeleton. Very quick. But it gives you that creepy. Creepy feeling from it. Very subtle, but you can see it. Next dairy and they're pulling the car out of Yup. Yeah. Okay! Yeah I remember that. Crazy. Little Hint wraps up and I last I just loved it again because he's talking as his mother. And? He's just given the facial expressions. And then when he looks up, says I wouldn't even her fly. Yeah the look. Great. So well written, and like you said it's not that complex of the story, but it doesn't have to be if you do it right, you know it's all about the layers. It's all about. The characters seemed full. They don't seem contrived or just. Put their for just any reason. Everything seems to work and everything. Everyone has their own agenda. Everyone. I mean it's so. It looked so easy like you look at it and go. Oh Man, anybody can write that it's not. It is. Well written screenplay and performed and masked fleet directed by by Alfred Hitchcock. I mean. He took his time. He did it right didn't skimp on anything especially to take three weeks to shoot US killing. Does like why would you do that, but? At the scene so important because it's a pivotal moment where the film goes from one character to another. It's true. So. You have to make a devastating. To the people go? And, that's I don't think that was. That wasn't done all that often in film was it I, didn't think so, and and it's funny because the ending to. where? And I love that scene of your miles is in the is in the basement and she thinks that the mothers there because she's in the back and. Hits the Shoulder. Just slowly turns the skeleton and scream, and the norman comes out dressed up as his mother. Just freaked out. Even say like. When you're talking about what happened and the guy goes transvestite. He's like Oh. Yeah, no, he's not. Seen It. Did that great how he just? Puts it all out there and. They really didn't need to have that scene they didn't really need to. Have A guy. Go over everything that happened. I liked it, but it was there because audiences were just so freaked out. It gave them time to calm down so. Like okay, let's recap everything so you. So you guys can come down. And, that's exactly why it's there. Yeah Very well done. And it gives you more insight of what was happening because it is a subject matter that. Isn't really done in filled. The guy's got a split personality in dress up as his mother and having conversations with himself with each other themselves. Yeah, exactly right and sometimes acting as Norman sometimes acting as his mother. He could be booth personalities. FOR STATIONS! Crazy just crazy. Yeah, I was just. So then you kind you go over the film and you're going. Wow, that's freaky because the scenes. Where you're hearing a mother him. So! You're going over everything while he's talking about. You're like oh Jesus. You because it was so good that you thought it was the conversation between two people him. Your latest knock on. The skeleton, or whatever yeah. Were devastated of what happened in the. Oh my God. Really Yeah really seriously. This guy's talking to himself. He sounds like his mother. Don't put began a fruit seller. On my God. Carries her down there and the scene. where the investigators going up the stairs. So, well done, it's all quiet and he's going up. And he shouldn't and you know. And this is the kind of thing you see it in psycho to as well. Everyone just comes walking in the house. They don't knock. They don't. Fall. Right in, so he comes in, and you know he shouldn't be there, but. You're with it and. The, the music's not there, and then he's walking up the stairs, and then it cuts to the door slowly opening. Here like want build up of tension. So you have that overhead shot so when Norman comes out of the door, it's a shock and I remember. Watching that part when when I was in film school. And These kids and every single person in the room jumped clear out of their seats. I've never seen anything like it in my wife. I Bet I is so well done attention so well built. I was like that's one of the guys master. Wow! Wow! And? That's why it's still you know. Why US Bengal and scary today I mean they now, and in such a good film that you know it's stood the test of time and. It's still very, you know. I mean I it shows what you could do with hormone. Yeah! And it's not like. Any other horror film that you've seen before. It's not like blatantly okay. Norman Bates his mother. Is You know Pretty Krueger? Right, but you know you could of made her into that, but he doesn't. He keeps it real. But he finds creative ways to build tension any sticks to. Building character. And keeping each each segment of the film as a piece, and all the cases come together. and. To where you've actually been through this roller coaster ride. Of. STORY IN A in. Wow. I can't say enough about the film I mean. Like I said, it's a perfect example of great. screenwriting. And Direction? Yep! Just amazing. This is like how you feel about this Chelm. How I feel about night I think. So yeah, I mean. I mean. I, you know nine. Dad's another great movie and it goes. It goes along with. There's a lot of really good movies. And when you see him. They're far and few between, but when you do see one, you can really appreciate it being not only a fan, but. As a filmmaker, clearly you go, wow! You're like how did that happen? How does this guy figure this out why? How how did that just come about you know? Where you go, okay, there's a scene in the script words. Lady gets killed in shower. I'm going to spend three and a half weeks. To shoot it, and he only Alfred Hitchcock could get away with that. No other filmmaker they'd be like. What are you talking about? We spent three and a half weeks on a shower killing. She should take. Only a data shoe at afternoon or something. Yeah, okay. BOOM BOOM BOOM! Did she gets? Done why? Trust me. And whole thing was. Is that even the studio? was going. What the hell are you doing Elford? We love you, but. Seriously And then like I said they showed the cut without the music and they're like. What is this? And then Bernard Hermann comes in with his. Credible, soundtrack of wow. Unreal how could? Again. It's that combination of visuals. Great acting good screenplay and music. All the aspects of filmmaking come together showing how it can work together. and Boom. You gotTA classic. Absolutely. Couldn't agree more. Yeah I just. It's. I don't know again when a movie like sixty years old. And we're. Excited about talking about it. And we're dissecting it. You know I. Mean That says a lot and I mean. Alfred Hitchcock is huge. He's iconic. We all know that, but again you know. I mean how many films can you talk about? Like this that are sixty years old. How many I mean not many. Stood the test of time where I can watch it, and you've watched it thousands of times, and you watched it recently and you still like all that Stugotz me or that Oh. My Gosh, you know I felt the seat. Still feel the same way about this scene. You know I, it's it's that. The definition of classic. As a filmmaker I'm going I'll this really gives me go? I WANNA. Make our now. I s the reason why I make `rational. It's very reasonable that the I mean that's just another feather in its cap. You know what I mean just. Yeah I, like I want to make something that is as exciting as this film. Right, how do you do that? It's not something you could be taught to do. It's like here. Here's a here's an artist that was inherently has this in his blood kind of like with other great filmmakers like Spielberg and. I mean it's just. John Carpenter and Ohio. And then here's the challenge. How do you do it with so much has been done. Well. I mean with every genre. you know the horror genre. They've done the okay. I've seen this before I've seen. And hoti make it fresh. How do you make it new and exciting hitchcock film? Absolutely you know it's. It's not easy because I mean if you look like it like I said. If you look at the screenplay, there is no nothing in the screenplay is going to say okay. The knife's coming in this way in the in the knife hitting the. Killed in the shower, right, yeah! Story. Right! Right. So, how do you make that? You know well? And you're exactly right terrifying so here here you go. Here's Alfred Hitchcock taking a slasher movie in doing something different with it. You know it's not your typical slasher movie. I wouldn't even call us last year man. To be honest, I really wouldn't and. I? Don't see it that way, but it is but then. It's in its. In its heart, it is a horror film in its heart. It is a slasher film, but it's so much more because he tried to make something different and he had a lot. A lot of good things were going for with a screenplay. You know and it took his tail to go. You know the scene. Is a pivotal scene and I need to make a statement, so that's why an spent three and a half weeks shooting it and I just found how many cuts there were in that sequence there seventy eight cuts in forty five seconds. Wow. Oh my God and They had a scene is only how many seconds forty five seconds. That's how long the scene S. three and a half weeks for forty five seconds film. And, they had a like a double for Janet Lee. For the new scenes of course then show anything, but and showing right right right, but it was a double. Her head on the floor looking that's her head, but there's a couple of scenes where a couple of scenes in the. Shower where we see her back, and she kneeling down at one point trying to fight her. That's not her okay. When she first gets into the shower and goes and gets turn the shower on. That's not her. That's it's a double. Wearing. She's not nude, but wearing a like A. Like A. I don't know something over her. That skin tight. That looks like skin, but it's. Wow. Might. Be Way off on this, but I. Don't think I am. That's Jamie Lee Curtis his mom. Okay good. I hope I was hoping I didn't blow that all right which he actually got. The you know, be act with her mother in the fog. Gotcha generals in that with. Her daughter. Is that carpenter. Second movie yeah. Okay Gotcha, then they redo it. Didn't they redo it? They did a remake again why? So that was bad. Okay because. Y great fantastic. Leave it alone. Kerber is best. Totally. I yeah absolutely yeah. But she when she's laying on the ground with her head. Cameras in her eyes. She has she had the whole. Open if you really look Kinda, see here iris over I kind of moving twitch and a little bit. Like. A hell, he's supposed to do that. You know how. Three and a half weeks. Forty five seconds of film. Cats insane. Wow. I just. So many different shots. And had set everything up. 'cause you know back then. the cameras are huge. That's true you know they had. Container Over the film camera the keep the sound. The sound. Can't those cameras were so loud? It had it had a thing built over it to muffle the sound, so we're near record shooting the film, it would be silent. For the sound recording. Gotcha. So they had to build the set of the shower and be able to be able to move the walls, and so he could get all the different camera angles that he wanted. And Yeah. There's like seventy eight different shots in their. STEPS INCREDIBLE WOW! That's wow. And the main thing about hitchcock. Is that. His? Way He made a film was. What he enjoyed doing was the preparation of the film like putting the Story Board together and can everything when he was actually filming. It was kind of an afterthought to him. But he enjoyed planning. and. You know making sure that everything's right and all the shots and then it was like. To me to the film's over. We were just shooting it. Yeah, so you could see that he. He meticulous was like plan that. Each shot seventy eight different shots on the story board going okay and try to sell that. To a producer. What are you doing? was his his I. Know You. Hitchcock was making movies since the winnings. Okay. But. He was at the top of his game and universal. Like. Everyone, he was like Spielberg. Okay here's making so much money for them like well. It's hitchcock. It's GonNa be good. Okay. and. They were Kinda. Lilia fee until they heard. Bernard Hermann Soundtrack and then he went. Oh, my God. What a great movie! Didn't. Didn't and then. and. Then on that and then. Right. Yeah, it's so simple, but. It pulls you into the film right at the beginning of the opening credits. Like This, yeah absolutely. Just like little subtle the. As we've talked about some of the simplest scores. In the connection between him, stuffing birds. In the knife, looking like a beak and the screeching of birds during the shower scene. L.! That was all implied, so you have the scene between them and. There's a shot where gently stands up, and there's a bird in the background with the beak, and it looks like a knife going into her. Own foreshadowing there. And then you see the. The scene with a knife coming in, and it looks like a beak, and the screeching of the a sounds like a bird screech Scou- okay Gotcha Yeah It's the little things. The little nuances that really. And layers. Yeah and make a great. Show all done. So I'm glad glad you saw with kind of fresh eyes. That's. I really did I really did yeah I I was. Trying to remember. When I saw with fresh eyes and I couldn't remember. I when I saw I already knew about. The shower scene and all this other stuff, so it was kind of. It didn't have the impact, so I said it Mike. Guy Would have been great to see the film and that know anything about it. It will really blown you away. That's true. That's true. That's our shower scene because they just committee even still even still great still. And File. Definitely have to check out the sequel to. Go to and maybe even the third. We'll see that Third, but again it's not. Do you all now. All three only own the first to. The first two, okay? So. Very cool and that no I guess we'll wrap it up here. All right and then we'll have to decide what we're GONNA. Talk about next week will make it a surprise or well I think it's your turn pick so. We're GONNA ALTERNATE SO boy? I now. God here we go. He's GonNa hate it. Don't breathe to. Direct committee all, but it's awesome Rod. Trust me Good, it's no. You've got to trust me on this. You do so She gets to California and then I won't tell you anything after that, but Grove. She loved the airport. Let's see it in the car and go. A. Turkey baster looking for you. The Guy. With the. Rent he rents a car toys out there with a Turkey baster. My God. Oh the Tesla, so address itself so it works. Never has to recharge his. You know four days. His is or anything like that. No, not at all. Not at all. I think about that, but you're right now. It just takes him right out there. Oh. Oh boy. Through? Turkey baster. Oh my God. Google. That's a break and joke. That's an eighties joke. You guys didn't know if he didn't find that out. You know so. Anyway No not really I don't know. Up trying. But I will start thinking of something. Of a movie for next week. And I, love it. And I know you're GONNA like it. Oh. Good Graces Rob I. Think I've. Fallen out of the. Carnival souls man we're. Carnival souls, and if I know that, do i. that's an old. Black and white. Okay. I. Don't think I think about. Money man done. Fisher will come up. Right. Do, do do. That I I love them. Well, what's left of them, but anyway? I know. So until next week, thanks guys for listening free shade it. horror vein DOT COM. You're listening to us on Apple podcast. Leave us a review or some stars. It helps us out a lot. And! Again, we have a store. You can get t shirts. We're GONNA. Be Add more stuff. I know it keeps saying that. We are. But. Yeah, it's really cool. took it out. It helps us out. And again our listeners from New, York that keep just piling on man I love that straight, so we had more and more from New York. Yes, we are! They love us. Awesome, sweet! Who Your new! York. Thank you big apple. Chicago Pizza Oh. We just lost. that. They're all gone. If. They haven't left already. They're definitely gone now. So that's all right anyway. Thanks for listening. We'll catch you next week. Horror Vein. Take care. Have a good week. Dude world is. 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Ep. 130 | B.J. McLeod
"Hey everyone welcome to the racing writers podcast I'm your host Kelly crandall. Thank you for tuning in this week. For what is going to be a fantastic conversation with bj McLeod. If you don't know much about bj which I did not before talking to him, this is the interview for you because Bj not only shares how he got to mass car, but the success. Success, he had a long way along with how he approaches his career, and all the while showing off a great personality. I love this conversation because I learned so much and again it was an opportunity to get to know a driver who I had not interacted much with some confident. You're going to walk away from this episode as entertaining enlightened as I did. One really insightful part of the conversation is on the topic of lap traffic and I made it a point to ask the day about this because I've come to hear how he's one of the most respectful drivers on the track. How did that happen? What exactly does be due to keep himself out of the news? Of course there have been plenty of unflattering headlines over the last year or so about drivers in underfunded equipment, being the target of criticism, so it's interesting to hear bj's take, and then he also shares a great never before told story of being his own spotter and crew chief during an explicity series race a couple years ago. bj McLeod is from Shula Florida. He has competed in fourteen of nineteen. Cup Series races this year driving for his own team. Rick ware racing and spire motor. Sports in the extended series BJ has run all seventeen races this year for Johnny. Davis and his twentieth in the standings, plus he also fields multiple cars in the community series, and has had the likes of Josh Colicky Vinny Miller Matt. Mills and others compete for him. Enjoy, this great conversation with bj Macleod here on the racing writers podcast, which is supported by the award winning sound of JBL JBL dot com offers a wide variety of products for all. Your sound needs head over to J. P.. L. Dot com to find headphones for you or your kids. Gaming headphones for IRA seeing or whatever digital world you escape into as well as their many. Many different speakers JBL has everything from portable speakers to Home Speakers Party speakers and smart speakers and JBL can also help you improve the sound in your car. jbl Dot Com is always offering deals on their products, and there's no better time to find what you need to enjoy this summer visit jbl dot, com today to see for yourself once again. That's J. B. L. DOT com. Again I appreciate the time I hate that it's taken this long to really get to interact with you, but I'm gonNA. Throw a bunch of stuff your way. Let me kind of break. The ice with this I've heard your name pronounced like seventeen different ways. How many different ways? Have! You heard it butchered over the years. I would say at least five or six. It's weird because it's spelled with an e O, so most people want to say McCloy eat or They wonder where the Bj come from, and you know there's always a lot of different questions. Kind of funny I've heard all kinds of different ways. They said it, and also because I'm from. Florida heard Waku pronounced that, so it's definitely better training over the years. Listen to Kinda understand the McClellan, because it is spelled weird, but the people that know the Macleod name. They instantly pronounce it correctly and don't even pay attention to it. It's just funny that they've known that name or not. Definitely a lot of different things I've heard over the years driver deductions. I'm sure we'll be Jamie cloud. Happy to have you on the podcast. Let's just run through how this season has gone unique circumstances of course with the pandemic, but how things been for you, your teams? The teams that you've driven for kind of just an overview of how twenty twenty s gone. Yeah, I mean that's definitely a wide wide range question because I'm definitely unique in the scored as to where we three teams at the beginning of the year now we all three expanded teams and a cup team, posting image or off time let's say let's hope it soon to be pushed me, so you know we definitely have that going and then also drive for JD motorsports and I. I drive for Rick Ware as lanes on the Cup side, so we have a lot of different things that were mixed up in a lot of different storylines rolling all the time, but you know it's the start with my team. We've not had the year. We wanted five cars I go, but we have had to be. We wanted and been in a top fifteen several times just had some really weird things happened. That kept that car from being in the position and getting the finishes deserves, but we had a good finish Kentucky with it. We're moving forward for sure, and then you know pennies. Prize this all with I think he's a four or five top teams already, Mesa. Together on scuff tires that are just incredible, so we're extremely happy with how that's going and ninety nine done well, too. I mean Stephan was in. Eighth plays coming into the checkered Pocono. Had An issue and it's turn three wide, and got the wrong end of it ended up twenty first that Blakey was what top ten indie on the road course and got pushed out there with like five or six to go, so we've shown a lot of speed with the team this year, and that was our goal because five years ago when we started, we were shooting for the thirty fifth spot, honestly just trying to get a feel for the sport as far as Xfinity goes, and we actually ran around the thirtieth mark pretty much all year and we've increased at each year. And got better, but this year we've got a lot of equipment built now. We got fourteen turnkey cars. Eighteen with composite bodies on them. We have thirty four. Total Center so we have the equipment to be better and try a little bit harder. We were wanting to be faster this year. We've proven that we've definitely had the speed. So that's all been really positive and the coronavirus is horrible for the whole world I. Mean there's nobody that had a hard time from that, but I always just try to make the most. Most of everything, even no matter how bad it gets, and we just looked at it like okay, so we don't know how long enough when this whole thing started. We didn't know if it was a week three weeks a month or months like nobody had a time line. I mean we really were running a business with no ideas when we come back Grayson, so. Wife I just looked at everything and I got with people at work with us, and like. Let's get prepared. Just use this time to prepare the team in a way that has ever been before, so that's what we did. And that's what ultimately lane to start in the cup deal, because about two months into it from the march twelfth area, we already built everything. We had wise. Wise. We're maxed out on what we could really do. We had roku scars together. speedway cars together. We had eight downforce. Cars together like just in really good shape so I always wanted to own a cup car. Some point and we thought what better time to now to give it a shot, especially with the lower overhead as you know, practice and qualifying. So that's that were. Were then as far as JD motorsports. They were much like us. They use the time to practice and get better and I think you see that with the six car and I think throat zero for race or two after the break and I mean all of it. We've been running top fifteen every single week. Sometimes, we finished twentieth 'cause. We messed up a little bit on pit. Pit Road or you know have tired mess up or something like that, but we finish. This is eleventh at Bristol. We're really quick Darlington and Pocono and we were really fast. One of the Kentucky races, so you know we've had really good runs down there so I'd say overall that you know very happy with progress and Steph, we may with the especially with the coronavirus. Handicap and everybody the Cup Team I know as you've mentioned you'd want to do that for a while and again make the best of a bad situation with the pandemic. You also hit on something I think is really interesting. They're witches in a way, the overhead it kind of sounds like because with no practice and no qualifying. It's a little bit cheaper and easier to do. Do now to put the hammer down in a sense and make that happen. Absolutely like I say at twenty percent of the decision making because on top of that NASCAR silver going back race then we're not leaving more than two hours from the central hub here. We have a shop front central Florida, but we have a shop or they'll just to be located correctly logistics. Logistics for you know cost, fuel, and different things like that so with that being said I mean we're traveling those one hundred miles to the first couple of races. We ran four races inside one hundred mile radius, so that figure Dan would know practice no qualifying you save thousands like technically tens of thousands to get the start going and get the car rolling it with. With, that much cheaper, literally, because of knowing, we weren't traveling to California that loans, ten fifteen thousand dollar. Move Right there then on top of that you have less knowledge on engines less knowledge. The gears transmissions breaks the whole nine yards, and you don't need a backup, so we're able to one car. That was take deciding factor in starting to cut team when we did. You know it's been a dream since I was. I'd say is the dream to drive. Remember honestly. I mean that's that's my answer. Everybody 'cause I honestly don't remember live to that looking toward to go into race track. You know as far as realistically. Thinking might be an owner one day cup probably about ten years ago, I was dreaming about it and then five years ago I knew that one day I was going to make for the life. We just worked really hard together to achieve the goals we wanted to, and it was more of a dream to make sustainable, and there's still on that whether we do or not. We're going to keep working towards, but you know. It was definitely something I knew her and I ended up. And running at least one race just to say, we did it I just always wanted to do that. It's just something we wanted to achieve. Hit on all the different team owners that you're working with you've driven for Rick and Jd Motor Sports. That's a unique situation I. Think you used that term. It's a good term to use when you have your own team now and you've been fielding cars in the xfinity series. What is that relationship like where you are a car owner, but you're also driving for other car owners. What's your relationship with them? In terms of understanding how all that work? Definitely, a lot of funny things go on is what I would say like it's. With many I hang out with Matt paying a lot. We're friends on and off the track and. We went out wrong this week or you know we did this t land. We're always just talking about. Giving room or this or the next thing then Johnny has the trust me to drive his car to one hundred percent and not help my cars, which I've proven time and time again I actually I move any out of the way at Bristol with to go to get the Lebanon Spot, he twelve. And we were literally running over one another last two APP so you know that's like anybody that question well. Maybe just rides no I. Don't get my car is any break can tell you that right now like we raise hard for sure I. Don't treat them my I. Don't at all I. Karl on come to me and say man. He said a New Year. A little crazy in love, racing heart but I didn't know you'd knock your car. Wait for a spot and it was like you have Anna I don't really care who it is to me. Their card numbers once we hit the track. I wonder if that A. A long time ago as the driver, you can't pay attention to the drivers as they don't mess with your heads like I literally just look at card numbers and race, I don't think about situations i. just drive and raise the track and pay attention to the car numbers, and that's it so you know that was one at Mariazell. Come Up, told me the same thing. He's like dude. I can't believe I watched you get into. The seventy Acre wanted one. He's like man. That's just nuts you know, so you know I, i. it's like Johnny has the trust that I'm going to drive. This car is one hundred percent, but. Johnny's never questioned that and I. Think a lot of people don't know drove for Johnny in the early nineties and go-carts i. was the house driver for him I didn't drive carts out of his shop. We bought up and then he backed his. Because we want a lot with them and you know he helps out with different things. I was technically like a house car in Florida. And then we ran some southeast racist with that car, too I wanna his go-carts that never. Never got beaten at one over thirty races between regional and state national level, and you know we had that relationship early nineties, and then you know he's seen me willing to drive somebody else's car about two and a half years ago, lateral Harman's maybe three years ago, drink harman's Car Michigan and finished twentieth with at the first race Iran, and it had a phone call from Johnny I'm home after that race I. Mean I. Call it back. He's like you're willing to. To drive other people's cars. I was like yeah Ns. I'm up to whatever you know. Because I like building networks and to me, you're. You're only as strong as the people around you. Sir I just stay doing anything and Johnny me and he's like. If you'll drive somebody else. We drive my car next week. Absolutely and he started there and I think I've been all in it. All probably ten races since then, and that was has been going on three years ago. Ago So I guess it's unique situation once again where the owners have the trust, drive the cars driving hard as I can and not pay attention to the cars that I own which I do, but you have to be careful and treat them just like anybody else and make sure I do give him some room and and helped him out. That's the same thing I do. Semi Hill or Josh Williams, or whoever we raise hard together and do the best we can. Take care of one another to all right I want to kind of take a little journey here just to where you've come from and how you've gotten here and from everything that I've seen and come across. It doesn't look like racing was in your family. Correct me, I'm wrong. So how did your love of racing? Come about and I know you started at an early age. So how did all that happen? If again correct me if I'm wrong if it doesn't seem like racing, was in the family where you're correct. In the fact that my family was never into a track racing before I was born. My Dad was a street racer back in the mid sixties. and. He built his own motors told us all drag cars, and literally made money drag racing Mike quarter-mile grudge pets stuff like that. And he was always mechanically inclined, and he had a big passion going fast. It wasn't circle track drag strip. It matter where he just loved to go fast, so it was something where I think that was in him and when I was born. He had been drag racing and drag racing restart switch to brackets and he didn't understand. Why don't I win? If I'm the first one to the line? You know it just didn't make sense. He didn't like it so at two and a half years old. He started trying to me on an oval, so he wanted to switch to something that you know as long as. As you got line I you want. So I know that sounds kind of silly, but it's just that simple like he didn't like having to figure out how to stage. And you know couple of cents off your time to be able to win or go slower to win. He didn't like it, so you know basically when I was two and a half years old. Being on a flat dirt track on a gas powered. Ovilla the had a foot shifter that actually had to shift three years, and he trained me on that and Iran I green, chequered race, two and a half years old against you know two or three other TV's just like me. Run a thirty mile an hour, but it's still with green to check your grades, and under three years of age so I remember holding a trophy that I want when I was three I can remember taking pictures. I remember Brechin when I was three biting whole lip. I remember a couple of things like that, but the coolest thing about my life that i. like right now when I think about that. Stuff is I really can't remember not looking forward to going to the next race, and that's literally a lifetime like that like my memories because I'm GonNa start around, so it has three years old and I. Don't have lot of them, but it has some that I remember vividly, and it's just awesome. That I've had an entire life. I've had passion towards one thing in one goal and one mission and my parents got me started without Emma would have anything so you know it's just cool that I've been able to chase this literally for a lifetime, so it's it's something that I like and I want to keep working and trying to get more successful, so that's where I come from. That's you know that's how I ended up racing. My Mom and dad carried me to countless. Go Kart race one over three hundred go cart races. My Dad recently showed the shop that I grew up at and we built race then and all that stuff. He sold it about six months ago. And we had to move all trophies to help, and I went down there and look they build a trophy room at my dad's house and put them all in there from when I was younger, and it's unreal. How many trophies? There's boxes of blacks with separate wins from center weekends on each black like. Let's say there's twenty wins on one plaque. And then there's a whole box full of plaques with those winds on there, so my parents put a lot of time into me developing me as a driver had thumped me enough experience, it was always a family. Thing me, mom and Dad grunted racetrack. You know since I was two and a half three years old so that they'll what I am now and you know I was always accessible until I reached a nascar as far as winning NASCAR I've got one. I've got one top fifteen and. To, of, EXPENDITURE And I don't even think. I've gotTA talk, I've got one fifteenth cop, fifteen and trucks, so that's been really difficult for me to not be a winner, not a really even top, and we can leak out or top fifteen rican week out. Just get their expenditure right now to where we can run around the fifteenth art, but I was just thankful to have parents that worked hard when. When I was younger to me and give me a lot of wins, and take me around the country, and and try to make me a better version of what I could be the euros fourteen. Iran eighty four souffle. Pol Races One, twenty, two, hundred finished in the top three fifty two times. That's a lot of dedication from the parents and helped on. Try to be good so. That's basically the groundwork. That got me to be able to do what I'm doing now. Well, you say that and you're talking about being two three years old. How in the world does a preschooler know what to do when it comes to racing? I think that's fascinating that you were able to go out and compete at such a young age looking back at it I agree with you. I have a niece she could have done. She was capable of it. I see some. Some kids to definitely think good or can, and you see kids ride motorcycles that h now and doing different things, not really cards, not that young, but you know close to it three four. Maybe five for sure, it's crazy. How young kids and the as and now you're looking at it, you're like. How did you ever get me to run an entire race to not just decided to drive off the track and start running around in the parking lot. You know like I? I don't understand it. Honestly I can remember being focused on it. You know in trying to be better. I remember my dad practice in Miami and the yard teaching me how to use that so shifter because it didn't have a clutch, it was just a You know. Push after down, but I can remember him practicing. Practice because it was standing start and I can remember him three to Ongo Green flag, or whatever he kept working with me and get me good to go back to the track better, and this is three years old. It's crazy. Good I mean that's just my life though and I. What's funny as the people asking you know? They asked me when I was fifteen. Do Your parents do this? They asked me when I was twenty. As your parents make you do this when third I mean they haven't asked me ten years probably, but it's like I'm just so thankful. My parents did that because looking back at it that stuff you can't replace now. You can't go back and build that into somebody like either. Have that or you don't so? I'm just glad that they made the decisions they made. That took me where I'm at because. My Life is awesome now. Now and I would have it without what they did. When I was a kid, I just wouldn't be there. Mentioned all those wins and racking up trophies, and all those laps in numbers, asa also did at one point you mentioned late models go karts a little bit of everything along the way so I guess it's safe to say. Racing just felt natural to you. Right from the beginning is once you started doing it. It was you knew what to do. You're comfortable doing it and really kind of found success early and often we did. We definitely had a lot of success. Parents had me on a really good road to hopefully be as successful championship driver deathly like I said three hundred go cart win by age twelve. I had my first win at age. Thirteen ran asap for the first time at age thirteen brand hooters Pro Cup for the first time at age fourteen, just really crazy records one I championship in a super late model at fourteen, and actually won four of them in the same year, hundred super late model wins by age, twenty six, and I had fifty super late model wins by age nineteen. They had me on that road and had me going that direction and it was definitely. An unbelievable life's to be able to do that. Stuff and focus on being a driver and like I enjoy I. Love what I do now like the the whole business dynamic and being able to own the teams race like I I really don't WanNa lose being an owner and the driver anytime soon because it's so fun driving my car and watching the cars that I own driving for the other teams and watching the cars that we that we own is just is just so entertaining to have this much in the mix every week, and like I said I mean I don't know life without looking forward to a race I. Really don't Mason, Hey. We stopped racing. What are you going to do like? I don't think I'll stop racing. Boss. Still have heartbeat. and. Let's go have ARPITA. Don't matter. I don't know how to navigate life without racing like I. Really I've never done it like I've I've had spells right didn't race for month or two like I've had that, but I've never not been working towards. Get back to the track in some fashion, so it's kind of crazy. People Asset I'm like I I don't ever plan on figuring it out either plan on racing trevor whether it's owner driver whatever plan on the Vix that makes me laugh. At some point, do you start to maybe look at as you're going through all those years all that successor moving up from one thing to another. Do you start to look at maybe a blueprint or a checklist of had to get to NASCAR? At what point do you start looking at stock cars? Is there a list of things you want to accomplish along? Along the way, is there a blueprint of how you thought you could do it and get to stock cars well think looking back at it. Everything was done correctly, and I was definitely on the right path, and had two wins, and had experienced, and definitely had enough talent to at least get a shot. It was all correcting. Going right and I think around. Seventeen eighteen years old I was winning ten fifteen super late model races a year easy and I was extremely competitive whatever we did. And I think at that point I wasn't. Too I didn't know what you had to do to be able to make it. Okay. Number One and number two I was very for where I was at there wasn't enough drive to get to the next level. It wasn't because I didn't care about it or want it I was always the kind of person that was you know, have driving, and I have a ton of motivation and Bishen to be better, but I always try to look at where I'm at thankful to. Because life could always be worse right so. At that point, you know I'm eighteen nineteen years old. When is late? Models left and right grace's left and right. You know having fun and. They're just. What the drive to get to the next level that I should have had I should have pushed harder. When I was seventeen twenty four, if I knew now are do then what I know now on what kind of effort it took to me just where I am now since I figured that out and started trying. If I had done that seventeen, there's no doubt in the mind could have been a NASCAR winner and and had a championship. Some sort like we could have done that for sure, but. That's the things you learn throughout life, and honestly I, don't want to go back. Change it, not one second Dr Regret it because now I'm an owner now a successful business person and Still driver I'm still having a blast driving these cars, and maybe my eleventh place is a wins at Bristol. You know, maybe it's not a win, and everybody else is, but maybe we were lower budget. We have everything we needed, but we still finished eleven at the second highest stock car series in the world at one of the coolest tracks in the world, so there's still a lot of value and what we're doing right now. Now and I still have dreams of winning one race. At least you know like I want to do that like there's I'm gonNA dream and try whether it ever happens or not is what it is like. I'm never gonNA. Let anybody tell me I can't dream about it so I'm GonNa try to win a race and I think you know like I, said if you WANNA. Look at it with what I should have done different. The drive I had from twenty six and up finally figured out how to be successful what I wanted to do. If I'd had that in the younger age absolutely I'm racing in the top ten on Sunday every week. In my opinion, okay, but I'm also not right now. If you said Hey, you can change I. Don't want to I. have no interest in it like I'm glad my life took. Took turns that it did and and put me where I'm at because I have a great group of people around me, I. gets do what I love every single week and I get to do a part of it that I wouldn't have probably been able to do or went that direction. If I had done things differently from that seventeen to twenty four error, you know like eight like. Time of my life, I really am happy with where things turned out. You're also connected in a cool way to Jimmy. Johnson and I wanted to hear more about this. Because I only saw a brief little youtube clip where you were talking about it, so I wanted to ask you had said you actually tested the Herzog car that Jimmy was leaving. I believe when he was moving to cup so i. I just wanted to hear more about that. And if anything had developed from that and kind of that that time in your life of being connected to Jimmy Johnson, we actually I think he was running time the year that I made my first asa starch I'm not real sure you go back and check on it. Iran Kinley was my first asa race over I was thirteen and Jimmy was there and I. I actually met him. There talk to him a little bit. Don't remember much about that, but I just know I met and then in two thousand and one I went and did a a test, a concord for the Herzog's in a car, and we ended up getting the nod on that got to the next level, and I was gonNA end up racing. I guess then Busch series car for them. I was. Was GonNA, raise a couple of racist forums, different things like that and Jimmy before I went to that test Jimmy actually just randomly Siemian Concord Mills Mall and I remember somebody yelling. My name and I was like nobody. Does we up here so I just kept walking and it hurts me Elmo name again loud. The Mike turned around and it was Jimmy, and he's like Hey, man. He's like. Test, cars for her Zog's, and I was like yeah. He's like well said. Is there anything you can help me with and a spent? At least you know supposedly now, but at least five maybe ten minutes talking to me about different things to try and help me and try to help you be better. You know and it's like. I didn't talk to him not one time from that moment. Still, I think in two thousand, seventeen. One of the Cup races probably Michigan Somewhere netters about Mitch Year. I went up to them and told them I was so proud of everything done and It's still the same person he was in. He has not changed one bit personality wise, and he is one of the coolest people you'll ever talk to. That means the world may because somebody to successfully. Seven Championships in a series that you know only three people have made never happen again in history and sport. You don't know okay. He's won countless racist seventies eighties now somewhere in that area. He's done a lot in the sport. Just helping build a sport, but he's been extremely successful for itself and the sport. And I can tell you for a fact is the same Jimmy Johnson that I met twenty years ago and he has not let anything change who he is and I strongly believe that's why he's a as successful as he is is because he always looked at it. As how could he be better? That's what he always liked that and he kept focusing on that and the winds came in the championships can. Get better people could stop. It's just really cool that that I knew him before and I know of now, and I've talked to. You know a lot more since then, but it was just it was just cool to stop and talk to me, and and just be the same guy that he was and offered me help there, too. That's why I'm pretty sure. It was Michigan because asking him questions about about the race. Is just an unbelievable person. Honestly, that's cool. That's really cool to be connected to a seven time champion, so and then you come in you. Make your NASCAR national series, debut in two thousand and ten, and we covered Kinda where you are today in what's going on one of the things. I really wanted to pick your brain about bj is in your current situation. There is obviously a lot of talk about lapped cars and respect for the leaders and one of the things I have noticed is that? Your name never comes up in a negative way. Meaning I have never heard anybody say that guy is in the way or doesn't know what he's doing I've actually heard the opposite where spotters on door bumper clear I don't know if you've ever listened but Freddie craft and TJ maters and Brett Griffin have said a couple of months ago that you are the guy that. That they know when drivers race around you, you give space you know where you are on the race track and you just go about your day. Do your thing and don't mess up. Anybody's Day so I wanted to ask. How important is just situational awareness when you're in that unfortunate situation to where your equipment isn't going to be as fast as the guys running. Running up front. So how important is it for you to be on your toes and to have a really good spot that you guys won't get in the way the number one thing is like I said I feel dreamers trying to win a race one day, and be successful more successful each year every year, that unfortunate enough to be a nascar and to do that. That number one. You need to respect to the people on the track like you don't get that without that so right now I'm in that position where I have to pay attention to in and give room when needed because of the situation I'm in at this time, and the happens for everybody. Obviously I've been doing it for ten years now, so it's longer and. Go all the way back. My first truck start is longer than you wanna be doing that, but I i. don't focus on that. I focused on the things that have done to be better. And this all comes from my days and super late models, where I always trying to put responsibly myself. Whether is business relationship with my wife for my family driving a race car like to me. I try to look at everything like it's my fault. No matter good or bad. What did I wrong? How can I be better? And when racing super late models I didn't WANNA blame. You, know a spotter for making a mistake to me. I'm the one driving the spotters there to help. Yes, the spotters incredible Daytona in Talladega believe they should be winter circle instead of the driver like there's places where they're huge asset to the team and the driver, but I still don't feel like you can ever truly a spotter for something goes wrong the track, because in my opinion, whoever drives the car should take care of the car. So I actually raised a lot of super late model races without spotters. I've been very aware my car. Car knowing where everything is at when people are catching me and different things like that my whole life, so that's been the biggest thing to help me in this level of racing I actually no I have a mirror set. I know where people are around me. You know that's how I've been able to make sure that I'm not in a bad highlight reel. Okay, the reason why I know how important it is to give room to the leaders and make sure that we take care of 'em as well as run our own race, too. Too Is I. was a winner in everything I did before I come the NASCAR, and not just a one time winter. I'm talking about six zero seven in a row ten in a row like this is winning for for over a decade of being successful and having to deal with traffic so I know how bad it feels whenever a lap car offense and ruins your night when you're lead the race and I've always tried to do my best to make sure I. Don't 'cause that problem for NASCAR drivers in it because there's a big. Big Show going on I mean this thing's nation. Worldwide I mean this. It's a lot of people watching this different venues, and I want to make sure that I don't mess up the show while I'm learning and trying to make up better so being aware of my car knowing where I'm at and not racing with spotters for a long time develops me to be able to take care mound car, and then on top of that I have respect for leaders and what they need. Because I used to be one before I got the NASCAR. So I WANNA. Make sure we did take care of him. It's a fine line you walk because you know we have our own race going on in every single race, and by that I mean cup I may be racing my butt off for thirty third. Get thirty thirty fifth may help pay payroll next week. Okay like that's how serious it is. It's not like well two spots. Who really cares? It's thirty third versus thirty fifth that don't matter. We'll think about somebody not being able to eat next week because you also spots is not quite that dramatic now but at. At some points, it could have been that bad if we didn't get those winnings. So that's a serious race going on back there that affects people's lives, and you have to make sure that you don't give up too much on your side, but you have to remember the you're part of a bigger show that you're trying to get to that level, and you have to remember the have to give to be able to get there. So that's the best way I can explain how I try to handle everything and make sure it goes right and there's tracks like Darlington. It's it makes the hair. Stand up on the back of your neck coming off to when the leaders start laughing me. They're like it's unreal. How close you are to wrecking every time a leader comes by, and this is when you're just too odd. It's hard to do it and I've been fortunate enough to be there. Three thousand, five hundred and I'll have one incident with a tank car there ever, so we're just trying to make sure we take care of people edge, and still have respect, and we know where, and that I'm I'm wanting to work and be better. Is the driver and hopefully knock it laugh one day. That's that's overshoot. As? It's an excellent explanation and I think you kind of hit on it without saying it's a tough position to be in because I feel like drivers in the mid back of the pack, a bad rap because people say we'll equipment. It's bad drivers I. Don't believe that I think that's crap. It's a very tough situation to be in like you said. which is you all have something you're racing four as well and then you have to be aware of what's going on around you. It's just it's a very tough position for any driver to be in exactly, and that's why I don't put it on the spot. Situation where spotter says clear and I get trouble and getting a with leader. And you know whether it's his fault or not is still my choice to turn down. Or turn up I. Always drive my car like I don't have a spider. And I use the spotted helping be and I actually have some great spotters to spot for me and both series, but they think that they're responsible for the car I think I'm responsible for the car, and as well as we treat it that way I think we'll be fine. That's the way we both look at it I. Literally Run. YOU KNOW NASCAR auto. Don't like this, but I've ran a a whole race. The Daytona with no radio I couldn't hear crew spot fodder. Nothing is in two thousand sixteen and I couldn't quit because I. needed the points I couldn't say nothing because. Because I. You know you can't technically do it and I just did want to stop, so I literally did feel knowledge inside the car I come down that road with lap. When the crew she was expecting me anyway and then we put another radio in their cooking it up while I was going around the track under green, I got it in there, and got hooked up, and it was the harness that was bad, so there was nothing we could do, but it was a wild race, but we took care of it and nobody knows that this day until me telling you. Other than might seem so there's things where I believe you should be able to take care of your own car, and just always that guy. That's my opinion and sooner or later one day I will make a mistake. There's no doubt about it as much as I race and as much as I get laughed as Iran. Fifty four races last year's is a NASCAR driver. Okay? I own cars in ninety nine races last year and drove in fifty four. That's hard to pull off in one year. Year okay, so would that much time sooner or later I'm GonNa make a mistake, but I just try to keep it as minimize possible because I have a ton of respect for the leaders in the Fifteenth Place Guy The twentieth Guy I don't WanNa miss that nobody's race because we're all out there driving our butts off three or four hours trying to make something and I look at everybody. Does things so do my best to make sure? I don't cause any problems. Oh my gosh, that's. What a story! Oh my goodness! I know you're enjoying the conversation with PJ Macleod, but I need to take a timeout to tell you about the new t shirt offering from breaking t thanks to a snappy comeback in an interview from Kyle, Busch. After the race at Texas. You can now spore a K. F. B.. T. Shirt. KFB is the latest in the racing collection to go along with more road courses. More short tracks de-fund. de-fund racism and many more use the link breaking t dot com slash Kelly to find a sleek and comfortable. T shirt that works for you. Breaking T is here to capture great moments in sports, and they are growing the ration- collection with the help, of Kyle, Busch Chase Elliott and many more where the moment with breaking t again, the link you need is breaking. T DOT COM slash Kelly. Have, you gotten feedback from the garage. Like are their drivers. Who Ever said to you? Hey, man, appreciate what you do and because again. I thought it was interesting that TJ, Freddie and bright when they were talking about traffic that they made it a point to say. You're one of the guys that you just do your thing and our real good guy. Don't get anybody in anybody's way. Have you had feedback about? That has really first of all. All talk about EJ Friday breath mentioning that interest me when they said that on that show their incredible spotters and the level. They're at the things they've done and people, Hussein, and different things like that. It's like six for them to mention me in a positive way was really big for me and I appreciate it, and then definitely if I've had several drivers, tell me that they're very thankful for the way that I work with them and. Cow Bush actually the first one I think it was seventeen brickyard was my first brickyard. Once again it hurts my name turnaround looked kyle and walked up to me and said. Don't take this the wrong way, but you are literally the best driver out there. Making sure you race hard, but you don't affect elitist home. We catch you. Just WanNa let you know we appreciate the fact that you drive your car straight. That's what he said. I'm like man. I'm just you know just trying to do the best I can to get better each week. And I WANNA make sure that I don't mess up your show in any way shape or form, because that's not who I am so I've talked to him probably fifteen or twenty times since then at different races and ask them about corner, entry marks, or you know. Know different lines and just different things, and he always take two or three minutes to make sure he explains whatever I asked and I tried to make sure I ask the right form because I want to get information. I need to be better. 'cause there. Certain tracks to Kyle's got things that I think he knows that other people don't. There's tracks. The Danny's got things he. He knows that other people don't the heartache you know. They all have some tracks that they stand out at and I. Try to pick their brains and the best form to try make myself better as a driver, but he's always taking the time to try to help me, and there's been several others that have reached out, said Hey, thanks for not messing up by race the. The main thing I get told is when you pick a line. We know where you're at. You know like that's the thing, and that's what I always try to do. If I'm going to be on outside I'm going to stay on the outside if the leader wants to outside that, I'm going to stay on the inside. That's the way we try to work back and forth. You Know Newman, actually it was the funniest one was definitely Ryan Newman. We had I guess it was over out of the cup race. At Dover probably seventeen I'm not sure maybe eighteen and it was just a weird mix up because the tires fall off. And he actually cooked clear me and I didn't want to run slower because I was raised in for the free pass behind me. Okay, so I was trying to let him go by and I gave them the bottle never blocked him, or nothing gave him the bottom and gave him plenty of room never crowded them, I make sure I never tried side leaders when they get i. always give them extra and let them be aggressive and try to get on by, but I couldn't lift because we racing for free pass on the. Race for free passes right pine, so Ryan was on older tires is on newer tires and he just couldn't clear me. It took him like four laps to clear. So he ended up shooting a bird forever. After the race income over, and he's like man. I'm sorry about that. He's like I was driving my butt off trying to get by, and he's like you gave me all room. You did everything right, but I couldn't clear your house mad about it and I. Just laughed because I have ton of respect. Ryan Newman one guy in the garage. It's actually my size. You know at least weightwise in. I've always liked him as a driver I've liked him. You know I was a fan of his before. I even had a chance of being a NASCAR, so it was just you know cool. Then he come up, explain to self, and we talked for a little bit and then After his Daytona wreck that wreck that night. Scared's the crap out of me. I was actually wrecked out. Five hundred early and I was down, I was at a restaurant on the beach, watching the end of the race, and I thought the worst. When I've seen is sliding upside down. There was fire out the back I was scared to death. That feels those catch on fire. You know. I was worried. He was going to get hurt or be hurt, and as even before I knew that he actually was. Going to the hospital and stuff, but scared me pretty bad and when he come back. After the break I walked up to Darlington and I told him I was like man. Make sure you slipped me off once least when you let me just for old time. Sake, he's like all right. I got Ya. Like me off, but did he did okay side and the thumbs up after that had those relationships with drivers like that means a lot me because I don't get the race with them, because I'm not better than they are right now, but at least they take time to try to help me. They talked to me. WanNa do stuff right and I'm trying to work to be better, and they know that and they were all there at one point eight. You know they've been. A lot of them were more successful quicker than I am. But they've all been where they were trying to make something of theirselves, and they know that I'm trying to do that now, so it's cool to have that relationship. That's awesome. I had a few more racing related questions, but I wanted to switch gears real quick about something else bj. You look like a bad ass. I'm just going to be honest and I I know that social media says that in a good way they love the look they love. your mask now. Currently under the pandemic where I think it's a little scholar something do. So you've got a great look, you're very unique again. All in a positive way. You don't look like the guy that is conforming to I. Guess What Sponsors Button Down and all that so again that something that people are I. Guess drawn to you because of you've got long hair and I read an interview or you said you've changed your hair color sometimes. So again a real unique look, and is that something again? That kind of draws people to you because you don't look like the classic Nascar driver and again. I mean that in a good way, right? Very, happy about the comment I feel like right now. If I could win some races, I would have also following because the only part missing is the successful side which is the biggest park because people love me like we have had fans in a couple of months, but they're always when I do autographs or things like that or walkout fit road I guarantee I hear at least twice that they love. My hair loved. Loved, way address or crazy shoes away or whatever I hear comments from fans about that stuff, and not the first year you know not two thousand and sixteen or fifteen or whatever, but as as started racing a lot more I started hearing that I know they liked the different look. You know it's just something. It's just the different different guy to pull for you know, but I gotta get more successful on the track match. Can, do weird stuff. You can't do your twentieth thirtieth every week, so. I gotta get a little bit better to make it all. Make sense, but this is the true me like I. The one advantage like I said I didn't want to go back and change it and try to be better than the where I've turned out, or what is the way it's turned out I am I'm happy that I do dress how I want to do my hair. How want to I have some freedoms that having success? Success sometimes keeps you from Avon so I, told everybody every sponsor I've talked to every person I've worked with I will cut my hair dress neat. Do whatever I have to do if I can be in the top ten, but I'm not going to dress away. Somebody wants me to to run twenty, so we're going to. We're going to stay true VJ and make sure I am I. Am and do that till I either get. Get an opportunity to be in the top ten, or if we get there on her own with their own bill, then I'll still be dressed in the same way, so we'll just see what happens I'm having a great time talking to you and it makes me think of something that I had talked to me hill about recently on the podcast witches and he's kind of in the same situation. Where believes he can get the job done? Done and wants to run well, but again doesn't necessarily have the equipment. And he said something that stood out. I wanted to ask you as well. Do you feel like there's a lot of stories and personalities that get overlooked in the garage? Because again I'm having a great time talking to you. I think fans are really going to enjoy this. In fact, it was fans who asked to have you on the podcast by the way cool. So. Do you think sometimes and say we? The media are NASCAR even that we don't do our jobs well. Sometimes, there's stories and personalities that get overlooked in the garage yameen. There's definitely personalities than stories stories that aren't getting told I on the other hand, understand why they're not because when you're racing in the highest stock car series in the world, okay and then also race in the. The second car series on the world people they want to know about the winters contenders, the people that are up front every week. You only have so much time from race to race, so you know there was a month and a half it between each race. I'm sure you'd interview Fifteenth Eight Twentieth Every Week know every race, but it's like when you guys. The media only has. Five days to turn around. You gotta catch the people that are up front in the main storyline, and that's not a bad thing. You know it's our job to work harder to get there, so you can talk about us. There is definitely you know the first one that comes to my mind deathly I love him to death I to respect for him. He's also driver. He could definitely be up front and the right equipment without a doubt, the first one other customised Josh Williams I like Josh like being have been ever. GonNa Wreck we've already talked about it. We're like because we raise too hard too much to not sooner or later. The domestic one another, but it's just fun. The competitiveness Mannheim on the track that never sees TV or rarely has because we're usually fifteenth to seventeenth to maybe thirteenth somewhere in that area, but there's a heck of a race goes on their between me and him and he's a good storyline. He's much like me and trying to make something for yourself and you know he's just. Just a hard worker, awesome racecar driver, good personality like he's a good story, and it's like there's many of those guys out there. You know the people that drive reminding. They're great stories. Janis guys like there's a lot of stories out there, but you only have so much time to tell them and I look at it like I need to do my job and get me. I'm working really hard to get the top ten right now expanding I think I really believe that six Kara finished in the top ten at least twice maybe three times the rest of the year. Then it's easier for people to reach out. Tell a story. It's our job to get there. We're going to keep working and making that happen so I think that it's good that we have that depth and NASCAR. It's not just two teams it's. Literally have thirty six and you know. Thorough is a thirty six to thirty six and expanding cup now each week that you have to talk about different different story lines, so I do what you can, and we appreciate it when you know people like you reach out talk to us because we definitely can bring more fans to attract and keep more fans entertained if we could get her stories. Stories out there one last thing on this before we wrap up with a few more racing questions just in let people know who is B.j away from the race. Track on your website lists. You like to do such as MMA and motor sports and different things like that, so who is Bj? What do you like to do away from the race track when you're not racing as much as? I'm actually quite boring. I would say I really think about racing pretty much all day long every day, and I'm always trying to figure out to be more successful with it I do have a passion for vehicle. I have probably I. Don't know nine of them right now. I, honestly don't count 'em all. 'cause I'll tell one a month. Maybe or two months I've messed around with cars lot of love, Love Street vehicles, so that's probably the only passionate that I. Really you know mess with a lot outside of racing is have a different streetcars, so there's that then I've gotten into the lake last couple of years. I really like because we got like Norman here in Mooresville. We just. Bought a Lake House in Florida it's. Definitely gotten into ripe. Jet Skis and I'm not a water sports. Pursing access up I've never really tried any of it, but definitely a probably leaning towards trying to serve one day we'll see. Then you know love training when the life she's been in bodybuilding and. Beneficier, competitor you know. She competed for over ten years and. He's really good with that stuff, so I love training with her. And she actually just got me into cross, so I'm kind of addicted to that right now and trying to get better at it so I'd say the main things are working out and. Play with street vehicles. deathly love studying. May I've never been a fighter? You know any of that, but definitely have a ton of respect to the sport and love seeing how hard people push bodies there and and trying to be better so just like watching that and keeping up with a little bit speaking of being better one of the things you do again. Circling back now to racing more questions for you. bj Is You have a driver development program. And again we talked about how you're feeling cars and the XFINITY series the last couple years. You're also trying. Trying to do what you can for your career. Why was having a quote? Unquote driver development program and helping out other folks like you mentioned. Matt or I think Tommy Joe as his driven for you. Why was that important to you to do which you can for others and not just focus on again, trying to be successful yourself I get a lot of satisfaction out of helping someone that has issues with certain problems in areas and racing, and and trying to help them make their selves better because they have a lot of talent or they. Lack, talent have everything else, and we can help build the talent or There's just a lot of different scenarios stories that go with and I like trying to help. People be the best version of what they could be and that's where it comes from I. I was actually a instructor finish line in school for over twelve years. And you know, we kept training these kids and sending them to other teams to go race and. Sometimes, they didn't get the attention they needed, and you would see not end up where they wanted to be. I just told Jessica. This is two thousand ten. I was like we need to do our own driver. Develop a team because I know we train these kids originally, and it worked with weekend and week out. We can help them be better. And it actually went so well that I only her head I, think you know a conciliate senity I've I've only had five or six drivers like literally the ones that come to be stuck with me for years didn't last week or month or anything like we literally work together five or six years, so you know that was the cool. Cool part that we got into these kids lives to where I feel like they're family now you know it's like Matt just one of okay Scott Hecker one of like they just paid really Scott's mom almost every weekend you know and it's like there's just relationships to got built there that it was one of the best decisions I ever made to be able to work with these people now where I really do feel feel like they're family. So you know when he hit that way with any Matt and different people that Intro for our team and inexpensively it's like. I'm I'll be hanging out with any Matt here and thirty minutes. You know it's like it's just it's cool. How close you end up getting and you can work with these guys than and here's the thing I've never been a winner in Nascar. Okay like I've never been successful weekend and week out in the top ten, but I believe I. Know the pieces to be there. It's just a matter of putting them all together and making it happen and I'm still working on that myself, but it doesn't mean that Matt. Matt might not do it quicker than me or that. He could do it quicker than me I. Just I want to work with them and share what I've learned from my experience and the people I've been able to be around and get that much more knowledgeable and see what they can do with what I know, so. That's the biggest thing that sparks driver developed program, and it was our way to get from being a super late model team to now literally on a cup series team so crazy to say. We literally went from one to the other. I'd say mid mid level super late to talk too late to trucks to you know like xfinity and we ransom cannon, and they're like you know now. We only cup team so. Definitely a crucial decision that made a big difference in for right now. What's fun about racing for you BJ? You said at the top of the show. You haven't known life without wanting to go to the race track or thinking about going to the race track. You've been in Nascar now for ten plus years. You've owning teams year finding success your own way. What is fun about being on that race track every weekend? Well, it's. The first is fun. Is I literally get to take a dream about this stuff every minute of the day you know there's no I'm not dreaming about trying to win. I'm thinking about how to go faster team and faster how to make Johnny scarf faster? Whatever it's literally I think about it all day and. Make gives me reason to live. And as far as like just picked one thing. That's phone on the track. I just like going fast like it's just like I if I didn't have Reysen I would never jump out of an airplane right now, but if you're ace, I'd probably be jumping out of airplanes I with probably get a squirrel suits jump up. I want to feel like wow I. don't know if I can handle that, and that's what keeps me driven to to get to the next weekend. And one thing I love about s cards like the tracks are so fast compared to what you do on a weekly basis where you run a quarter mile, track or Half tracking your your topping out. You know ninety mile an hour. Let's say you know these tracks like you know Indian, oak up configuration, but Iran, which you know is still not old by no means it was fifteen, but. I think seventeen, but you still run a two hundred and ten mile an hour in straightaway. I'm like that's fun by myself. Even if I do get laughed, still enjoying driving the car, so it's like that's the part I like is going fast, and I've really loved putting on a show for the fans. When I was in stipulates I was successful I. Loved Making Things Exciting. I haven't been able to do that now. Scar because it got close enough to the front to. To make happen, but if I could ever get into that top five. Put on a show for the fans that would be the other part I actually do really enjoy trying to put on a show for the fans that segues perfectly into my last question. Be Dale. Get you out of here on this one again. It's been fantastic, so you said earlier. You'RE GONNA. Raise forever, so given that what's the goal? WHAT IS THE LONG-TERM GOAL? Plan our hope for your career Nascar. It's hard to you know I'll be got to where I'm at now because I was taught to dream. Okay 'cause you know if you go back fifteen years like there's no way. Cup series team like just it's not going to happen, but I. It was okay to dream about it so I. Always try to put things in a in a dream form and I want to own a competitive cup team. Head. Competitive Team I mean twenty fifth or higher like Twenty Fifth Cup race is really capable of wealth on any given day, and if you're fifteen cup racer, capable of fifth, and if you're a cup racer, capable of winning I mean it's just there's competition close in that stack I would like to own a top twenty five cup team. You know for I. Don't Know How long I can, but as long as I can, and I would love to get my team to where we're running cop fifteen to top ten and then lookout get some wins as owners as the. The driver forum or or not driver elder form, and get that to where our team like I really believe this is realistic in my mind. I believe I can make my team a top ten team inside the next couple of years. Let's say three years somewhere in that area, and I believe we can win at least one race inside of three to five years somewhere in that area, and and I'm going to do my best to make that happen, and then you know back on the dream inside I would like to win a race as a NASCAR driver and. You know. I think you know one day. I can make that APP and I'm GonNa work towards it. And I I can make the happen. I can't make that. I gotta work pathetic, but it's GonNa take a lot of good people around. Fortunately. I have that so that's why I feel so confident. Saying that one day we might be able to win a race because I think I'm. GonNa keep working until that happens, so you know I would like be as the driver. Competitive in the NASCAR expanded series for several years and then just keep making myself better. Cup Series Is. Is really difficult to be good over there and I I know that but I wanNA prove that that I can drive you know with those guys on Sunday and be in the mix and just keep making progress, so that's what we're going to force so I guess an overall goal would be to be an owner driver in Nascar successful than I am. Am now if that makes sense makes sense to me. I can't wait to watch it happen again. I've said it a few times. I'll say it again. This has been awesome getting to chat getting to dig into who you are where you came from looking forward to following much more and again I apologize. It's taken this long for us. Interact or do anything. No time than a pandemic to. Happen so. We, we appreciate. It was the. It's good to talk to you. Hopefully we keep story. Go, and you'll be interviewing us again. I like the way you think bj thank you again for joining the podcast. Thanks again for the time and hopefully we will get interact face to face sometime in the near future. Thank you. As I, wrap things up this week I. can't extend a big enough. Thank you to Bj for the time and the engagement. What a great personality and approach to racing and I can't wait to see if he's able to make. Some of those goals happen because I. Think Bj is Ken be great for the sport of Nascar. So thank you again for the time and for sharing your story with all of us and what great stories we got in this week's podcast. I hope you enjoyed the conversation as much as I did you can leave a rating and review or feedback on social media to let me know my twitter handle is at Kelly Crandall, and you can also find me on facebook where I have a public page for all writing and podcast links, and please continue to spread the word about the podcast to your family and friends, as it is greatly appreciated, we're now one hundred and thirty episodes in and again. I can't express how grateful I am for everyone tuning in. 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