20 Episode results for "sequoia"

A Sequoia Success

The Good News Podcast

03:51 min | 9 months ago

A Sequoia Success

"Hi I'm calling your host for the good news podcast and I'm neil the other host the good news. Podcast is your source for Good News Fun Stories Auditory Delight and Sonic Joy. We're bringing you all of this goodness from beautiful downtown Chicago Katie. Kyw I have some good news for you that I want to share with you and I wanNA share with you specifically is I think this is something you legitimately really care about him I. I am waiting with baited breath. I'd like to tell you about a grove of sequoia trees called Alder Creek. Love our ready. It was previously. The largest Grove of privately owned sequoia trees in the world and recently a conservation group closed a deal for fifteen point. Six five million dollars to buy it and turn it into a nature preserve. Wow so it went from being a privately. Owned Grove Sequoia trees to now being a conservation group on it is surrounded by the giant Sequoia National Monument. So it's a small grove ringed by a bigger or bigger national monument. I love that and I think this is important to you. Is You love those trip. I love enormous Tree Sequoias. Redwoods that is my spirit. Animal people talk about spirit. Animals is a tray big giant tree. And what do you think it is about those giant trees that brings you so much joy. They're just so magical and they're so old and knowing that those trees have seen hundreds of years of time. And here's something I learned this Alder CREEK GROVE IS INTERESTING. Because there's a wide range of ages so young trees in old trees and for a long time. The Grove wasn't doing as well like trees want replenishing and it was because people were trying to stop forest fires thinking they were helping the for us but as it turns out sequoia are naturally suited to withstand enough car forest fires and they need them to clear out the undergrowth so but younger trees congrats. Right yes let the people do with their what they know how to do so now by people. You mean the trace now that it's we have a better understanding of the trees conservation group attached to it and it's part of this bigger surrounding area. We should take a trip whereas in California. You really thanks for listening. Do you have good news? Incredible or maybe. WanNa tell us a joke idea. Excellent email us at hello at the good news podcasts. Dot FM or lease voicemail at seven seven. Three two one seven zero one five six. You can also tweet us at the Good News Pot and follow us on instagram too. And if you love the good news podcasts. Think about supporting us on our patriotic page. Must of our music is by Paddington bear

Alder CREEK GROVE Grove Sequoia Sequoia National Monument Alder Creek Paddington Chicago instagram Dot FM California Six five million dollars
Sequoia Capital Part II (with Doug Leone)

Acquired

1:01:19 hr | 10 months ago

Sequoia Capital Part II (with Doug Leone)

"Hey acquired listeners. Instead of cold opener we want to use this space to dedicate today's episode to the late. Don Valentine who passed last year we are excited to be working with sequoia today to bring you something really special for part two and with that onto the show. Welcome TO SEASON SIX EPISODE. Two of acquired the podcast about great technology companies and the stories behind them. I'm Ben Gilbert. I'm David Rosenthal. And we are your hosts. Today we tell part. Two of the Sequoia Capital Story. We are going to pick up where we left off in nineteen ninety six when sequoias legendary founder. Don Valentine turned the firm over to Sir Michael Merits and Doug Leoni in this. Modern era of sequoia since Nineteen ninety-six Sequoia has been the investing partner behind an absurd number of the industry defining companies of the last twenty-five years including Yahu Google Pay Pal Lincoln Youtube Red at twenty. Three and me hub spot. What's APP DROPBOX AIRBNB? Docker stripe INSTA- Cart Path. Jordache and Robin Hood. Woo No kidding. And Well David. An ice belong to depart one of sequoias history on our own. We have the very best person in the world with us today to help us do part two right. Doug Leoni now David who is Doug? Doug is the global managing partner of Sequoia capital in charge of overseeing the firm's many diverse businesses. Which will get into from seed to global growth investing across the US? India and China Doug? I joined sequoia in nineteen eighty after famously cold calling Don Valentine and was the champion sequoias expansion from a single hundred and fifty million dollar early stage fund to the multi billion dollar global powerhouse. It is today. Welcome Doug and thanks for joining us. Thank you very much for having me. It's my honor to be here. Great Abbey Alright listeners. Before we dive in I'd like to welcome our sponsor for all of season six Silicon Valley Bank whether you're at the seed stage scaling to series or beyond as phoebe has the insights and experienced help. You hit your next milestone. I spoke this week with Jennifer Frail Goldstein. Who Runs Business Development at as Phoebe now Jennifer? Today we're covering part two of the sequoia story which picks up in the nineties. Can you give us a sense of how different venture is today than it was back them absolutely venture has changed pretty significantly from back. Then just to give you some statistics. We finished off two thousand nineteen roughly just below the record high levels of two thousand eighteen in terms of total dollars employed. I came in just under one hundred and forty billion dollars in the exponential scale of what we're talking about now is so much bigger than what we were at in the eighties and nineties and even the early two thousands and that also includes roughly fifty billion. I think the number exactly is forty six billion dollars by our count. Fresh capital raised in twenty nineteen. Which will need to get deploy over the next couple of years and that really is focused on traditional capital when you start to add in things like corporate venture and family offices and all these diverse sources of capital that are really focused on the innovation? Economy we're talking about a very different industry from the cottage industry. The started out as many years ago. Great will thank you Jennifer Listeners. You can visit. Feb Dot com slash next to learn more and now over to David. Take us into sequoia with Doug. We're GONNA talk a lot about sequoia during your time and its evolution. But before we do we want to ask you to tell your story a little bit. Your family immigrated from Italy to New York when you were eleven years old. What brought your family here. So we had a bit of a World War Two heritage where my dad's sister got married to a lieutenant and that up in America had a child call mom and so now we had grandma for me and in America and we were the Italian family with the American Ben. My first name was Douglas. But in the church you cannot be call Douglas for the simple reason that you need to have a name from one of the three hundred sixty five saints so in Italy. I was model. Douglas Leoni or do glass as my mom call me and my dad call me and in school. I was model when I came here. Just flipped the two names but a long story short. My Dad saw an opportunity maybe his career. It was not going so great in Italy so an opportunity to come to America. He came here It took me about two years of my mom to come here when two years without seeing my dad And then we finally came here in August first. Nineteen sixty eight. What what did you dad do a New York in New York? He was a service engineer for a Marine Equipment Company and the most the ever made I remember was twenty five thousand dollars. Wow that's amazing so when you arrive finally nineteen sixty eight in America in nineteen sixty eight by boat with vitamin Michaelangelo past the Statue of Liberty to the west side of Manhattan. Do you remember the first time you saw this? I remember being outside. I remember crying day one day to just being in a fog for the next five days when we did the crossing. Wow that's amazing. So American nineteen sixty eight must've been pretty different than the world you left in Italy and how was adjusting and high school so it was really interesting because it is What I am here today is really a product of those times. I was an only child with aunts and uncles with no children so I was over. Loved Very Warm. Very warm upbringing. Lots of trust lots of love and I came here and it was a shock to my system and it was abusive in Highschool. Imagine you know. It's not like being school. Where right now everybody preaches. You have to be good to your fellow kid and all these wonderful things there you get the crap beaten out of you emotionally physically and so on and talked with yon in what's APP. Same deals any graded in high school at the same experience. And so that makes up the two sides of me which is the very warm side very big hard and the super tough side. Where where I just don't give an inch. You've talked about In other given that we listen to that you do. The Myers Briggs test. Here's how do those combine into what year Myers Briggs type is? I'm not sure. Those effect Myers Briggs. But this is how I tested early on and how it changed people think of me as an extrovert for the simple reason that if I have to turn that on can especially as I get older. I went from insufferable to charming. It's amazing what happens But what I really am. I'm halfway between an introvert. Extrovert exactly halfway in between and and early on I was tested as a process driven person. Meaning my whole mind is a tree structured. There's a lot of logic to it and so on and twenty twelve when Mike Moore. It's step down in their relationship with Mike. He was intuitive one. He was really the leader. A SEQUOIA I was one a I was the oh if it helps I understood. That would not be a winning formula. I always thought that great CEELO's would make lousy. Ceo's now I'm not decio year but you get the point and so I took myself completely out of the comfort zone and understood. I had a relying intuition. And when I was tested in Mayes break by a lady that tested me. She was shocked by the transformation. And she said you and Michael Dell. The only two people have attested that have made that change and when I hear people can't change I chuckle a little bit because I felt like I changed. I felt like I had to rely on my God and I can have all the answers in tree structure prior to you know letting people create. I can manage every inch of a hat to let terrific. People do their thing. Yeah well I can totally imagine you know the things that we're gonNA talk about the champion here at Sequoia doing that is. I think what led to a large part of your success so you finish highschool you must have been a pretty good student you go to Cornell and Columbia to study engineering right so I was a great student until I grew up. I went to Cornell I got thrown out of Cornell after my first year my might my first to Sima. That's not in your bio my first semester grades where one three four and one to two which is not easy to do. I did not see half of my professors because I just never went to class Behind that and I'll mention a second. What was behind that? After being abused in Highschool never abused. When I was in Italy I was a smart kid who was flooding in Highschool. Oh my God. That was rough. I Cornell I became normal again because when I went to cornell could speak English and all of a sudden I was one of the very accepted kids and I kind of lost my mind in some ways I lost the opportunity to learn but became normally again now for a fall term. I went to a two year school to make up a couple of classes where I got US. Mainly math and physics which are my strongest classes. I mean I love math physics and I also was working part time doing the deliveries talking truck drivers and it just showed me a range of life of what life could become nothing wrong with truck. Drivers don't get me wrong was awry for me. Probably not so a little bit of the carrot and the stick I impact to Cornell. I did fine. I graduated and I went to work and I decided that I needed to do something. And that something you end up in. Sales was prime computer. Your I know that the first job was selling computers for Hewlett Packard. I remember there were three people. There were two people in a room. Age Forty five to fifty and they said quote kid. Don't worry we'll split Manhattan into thirds and I didn't know anything so I trusted him. Sir Got all the Wall Street one from Wall Street to ninety sixth street midtown and I got by the way. This is nine hundred. Seventy nine where? It wasn't safe to walk north of Seventy Ninth Street and now territory that my was north of Ninety six street. This is pre Giuliani and Bloomberg. Y'All yeah Well pre the fact that we became urban and so on Burned out buildings and so on but that was a lucky break because one thing that's up. There is Columbia and I remember. There was a dean of the School of Engineering Dr Trao but still remember his name. The came from Cmu and explained to me what the ARPANET was a knee. Explain to me with open systems. Were and yes. I went to prime for a year and a half because I wanted to sell computers on Wall Street. Because I knew that's where the money was. But that was with a shorter money was was their prestige associated with that or was it just the selling money. A Wall Street was was money. It wasn't procedure. It was money and prime was the second youngest company to be invited in York Stock Exchange. It was a Gogo Company. I chosen well but I realized there was only a sales career and I was beginning to crave for something more. I want to quote. Make it what does that mean. I remember walking on Sixth Avenue and and seeing all these buildings has. How do people become successful? Clearly there must be more and so I said probably I want more risk so I co- call Vinod Khosla well actually it was owen-brown which was the CEO at Sun at that time. I got a job About Sun because you're GONNA systems. I went back to Colombia. Open system. Call some Microsoft employees number. I don't know fifty sixty. I can't remember I people in the first person in five states and I started doing volumes of business so much so that the board wanted to know who this kid was vinod Khosla wanted to know Scott McNealy wanted to a good sign and I had an idea to open Wall Street and the reason I did that. I learned of a machine called CONVEX. Which back then was on processing math processing tapping machine and I read in BusinessWeek the dropping out of Yale going to bear stearns and Wall Street. What does that mean man? And I don't know if you WANNA hear the story but the story was I got a call from bear. Stearns they said can we get a budgetary quota? Budgetary QUOTE IS SOMEBODY. Who have imagined wants to know how much. I gave 'em my quota was two million. I gave someone a budgetary quote I had met for two point eight million and went on vacation for two weeks. I came back and there was a purchase order. My desk for two point eight million I said truly holy Noli cow that is the definition of product market fit right there exactly and so what I did is I put all my time on Wall Street so much that my office was a depot because son could not support the system so my office. My desk was a Prince Dan. That had a hole in it for the paper with messages. All around it. I HAD COMPUTER. That were missing out of. Sun All around me because if you were down I brought you back up in an hour and a half I just drove to Wall Street with him and Scott Mcnealy Support Engineering Zunino this volume. I go what's going on in. The Sky came to see my office. He was impressed and horrified at the same time. This is sun microsystems and we just need lots of business and long story short. I met Vinod KHOSLA venture capitalists. What the heck is that? And I want to be one of those Boy One three four one two two. How do you get into business school? So I went to get a master's at Columbia I got in. Luckily I did extremely well which patted the resume a little bit so I can get into business school and I went to business school. And then I co- call my way Into the venture industry. Yeah from what I could read you. You sent an called eighty different firms. So the was back then. There was a big green book called. Pratt's guy to venture capitals sources. La Somebody to publicize it again today. And I took all the venture firms in three states connecticut. None of four Connecticut New York Massachusetts California. And I just actually wrote letters because you wrote letters during those days in California. I would say things like I'm going to be in California. Of course California. Follow up as if as if it was coming to California. How many entrepreneurs do that to sequoia now too. Well I'll be down in the bay area in case it happens to well. I pushed a little and in the case of sequoia there was an assistant. A Spicy New York person called Barbara Russell. That worked for dawn did the distribution may have been a reception. And you know it was at a time with somebody that at all. And so I- sweet talk my way with Barbara. And she tells me she's become a very good friend she's no longer here. She's retired up in Seattle. She said she went into Don's office and she said this kid may have something you may want to spend some time with them on a five o'clock on a Monday. I was interviewed by done. What did he ask you one question? What's important and I talked with. Three minutes and silence didn't bother done. He could just be. We could be quite for an hour. It'd be okay with him and he waited. Twenty thirty seconds would seem like an attorney terrifying and then he said what else I laughed. I said what did he what else I just told you everything but you know he liked my how genuine I was. I think he loved the sales approach. Because great company has product from the inside out and sales from the customer from the outside and and he read correctly. That I'd be a hustler. But not in the word hustling that. I would hustle. That I was smart. I was human and he knew the question was. Can we reprogram him? Can we break them down to pieces? And Willie build himself up. Doug what do you think? In retrospect are the differences between what has made you an amazing technology investor versus what you thought would make an amazing technology investor at that point in time It's a difficult question for me to answer because I don't think I thought I didn't know anything about. Why WOULD MAKE TECHNOLOGY INVESTOR? What as led to my success. Is I hustle the lot. This people like Jim Guests. Who can product manager with a founder product? There are people like Mike Morris who have incredible intuition. Guess what I did. I bet you can guess I may thousands of cocoas. I get in front of everybody. I am not kidding when I said I went from being insufferable to suffer -able overtime charming was maybe the last five years Dirty and so exactly was complete journey and so I just worked and build knowledge and I develop a network and some luck. There's always some luck lots of hustle. Some brain some skill I was able to generate some of their ideal flow and had a very lucky. Good start. My first reinvestments were. Ipo's which was good but it also build the false sense of confidence. Because after that I thought I knew something and I woke up one day in two thousand and one I looked at my ten boards and I said Oh my God there's not a winner there and so it was an early success go through the abyss and I see investors here go through the abyss and when someone goes to the abyss you gotta let them pull themselves out if they come out the other side. They're terrific and so I went through the abyss and then I went. What were those first three that there was arbor software which is a darling software company that went public and then merge with period okay when it went public it was the largest wind sequoia ever had a company called I. N. S? Which was a service company built on the notion that companies cannot swallow routers as fast as the like to swallow routers. And therefore we could have a services company a company. We took public in Seoul for seven billion dollars to two lucent. Seven billion in nine hundred. Ninety eight was a lot of money and a company called Renaissance Software which was a Wall Street trading system which was which was really my strong point. I understood what I was looking there. I did not know that was acquainted and a funny story in the case of Arbor software. If you want to know the real story I was here for three years. Almost got thrown out. People want me out. Don is the one that saved me. Give quote give the kid more time kind of attitude and I needed to get something done. The founders of Arbor where two weeks from bankruptcy personal bankruptcy that neither came to my house. I said you gotta get a deal done. I got a good deal. I think you're investable. We created the presentation. Wow that PR- that got presented the next day to sequoia and the inside I had Don Valentine held for that day undestood. The problem the end consultant. They understood the domain of the pain and they just did not articulated in a fundraising pitch and so we created a pitch and we got the company. I say we because even though we got to company find it. The partners trusted me so much that one partner and I want to tell you the only reason why I did. It is because there was a credible co investor in his mind. Nothing to do with what I knew said but we get the deal done and we have the investment made just starting to people not a line of code a seat if you will back then although he was a series eight two million and we made it so we ended part one of our sequoia history with Don in Nineteen ninety-six calling you and Michael into a conference room and passing the firmer to what was that day like for you to these. Three companies had become winners and I could imagine the conversation too. We should made dug a partner. I'm sure it was an easy one. In in one case I had a track record in the other case. Remember the insufferable part and the conversation must've gone around. What is he going to be like if he's a partners even to turn into a monster kind of conversation which I did? Obviously it's not as black and white as don turned it over to my parents and me. I actually went back and looked at carrier location. Not because I want to carry gut. I wanted to see if my memory serves me right. It turned out that Mike and I had more carry than the other folks. It wasn't though black and white. It's yours we were from Syria. Were the ones with the track right. Well I got promoted to GP. I had one you know one tenth of the carrier. Don Valentine of sequoia six and a year into the fun Don said we are changing the carrier make us all equal understood that he needed to make sure the young people were. Maga- act like Like associates even though. Yeah with partners and sleep. Flatten the partnership and in Sequoia six and. Now it's sequoias seven. It was more Mike and I were the the more aggressive ones. The ones that have been a track record. I remember Dan set with Mike in. I didn't say you're the leaders did not anoint us but he had a conversation just with two of us and Dan had a green sheet of paper with all the things that investor does and check marks next to what he's willing to do and he pushed a paper as he always would and said you figure out if you want me around and this is what I'm willing to do. He wanted a. We offered carry in that fun we gave. Kerry don the next phone which turned out to be Google Fund. We actually took good care. Oh Dan we gave car some carry not GP Kerry of a couple more funds never aggressively Ashford. I remember when you walk into. Don's office and tell him no more. Carry refunds later any chuckled. He said what took you so long and but Mike and I were were. Were the two if you will more senior. We rotated the Partners Meeting. Who would write down the companies who was the leader of the partners meaning for a year or two until my stepped up and said this is not gonNa work. He offered to be the one doing it. We all agreed he did it. And so it became that Mike was really one and I was one eight just to. I don't want to rewrite history. One A we. We had similar. We EXACT COM. Mike was the CEO if you will. I was a coo aware partnership and that's how we ran sequoia Until Twenty twelve When my step down for health reasons and Doug as a point of clarification when you say sequoia sequoia seven q explain a little bit. Sorry there the funds. The successive funds voice sick was a six fun. I see where I became. A general partner was the last really true partnership with Don was full full time. Six seven Don was anginal partner. He had less You know and and the partnership was run by five or six other partners yet. And then Mike Morris took the lead and I became one a and get a sense of what early stage fund number. Are we on now? We are in seventeen. Got It okay. So rate rate when this happens in the transition to sequoia fund seven the whole world is changing rate league because sequoia originally Don came from the semiconductor industry and then there was the P. C. Software wave but now the Internet is here. Yeah well not yet. The is actually a few parts and part was first of all sequeira. Five was sixty seven million because a truly lack of ability to raise more money. We're raise the growth fund for one hundred sixty five million that we didn't know what to do. With in fact we invested the growth fund and the average check size and that fund was two million dollars turned out to be a four point five x net funds which is a terrific performance because we invested like venture fund When we race. Ah Koy a six which turned out to be the out the Yahoo Fund. The returns from five were not yet visible when Mike and I went off on reasons. Sequoia seven the limited partners said who the heck are you guys. And we lost some declines. We lost some big LYLES and sequoia five turn out to be a fabulous fund sequoia six and incredible fund sequoia seven is spectacular fund sequoia the Google Fund an Amazing Fund soul. Mike and I and the other partners got an incredible start and then nineteen ninety. Nine two thousand happened. We did not know the meaning of the word clawback for you listeners. Were clawback means is when your funds are doing so poorly that now you are a lot of money back to your limited partners and we had war-room meetings here. It's a quiet in two thousand where we owed more than our net worth. And how do we get ourselves out of that? And is that of the fees that you've already taken US compensations and carry. Maybe we had an early win and we to carry in the rest of the Fund is attorney and we not only because you when when you have early wins you assume the funds being you carry but let me make things more difficult and that early win. You're giving shares that you hold and zero. Oh so you didn't even have that so you hold the shares in your coun- because it's nineteen ninety nine. Those non-real companies shares zero so we had warm conversations and we choice to me and the choice to make to borrow a line from golf and I don't play Golf Coal Mulligan. Most of the venture industry considered the funds in that period. Cold The mulligans. Yeah they are they're crappy. They lost money. But you know it's a do over. We took the opposite approach. No one was GONNA lose money at capital so we took funds were point three x meaning if one hundred million dollars. That foam was worth thirty in. That case was three hundred or five. Hundred is worth thirty percent of that and we brought them up to close to x just by giving up fees not collecting them and reinvesting money. Every time we had a game we reinvested reinvested because we wanted to have the pride of never losing money and so those were formative time for been so easy for you guys and most other firms did say. Call mugging we're GONNA take the loss on this. We'll start a new fund that we get fees on think about it sequoia for is the Cisco Fund. Don Valentine Sequoia five younger team. Older TEAM TO RIFFA SEQUOIA SIX. Yahu and many others than video. Many other sequoia seven many companies sequoia aid Google. It would have been so easy for us to call it and we just refused to and we just refuse to do doug. It reminds me a lot of the two thousand eight story where Ford refused to take the federal government bailout and say yeah. Yeah it would be easy for us to do this. But REPUTATIONAL. It's important to us and all of our customers or your clients for the next decades to come that we don't do this absolutely and while. I tell clients those times won't be chapter one in Sequoia Book. They'll be a chapter. There should be a big shopper. That's devoted. It is may be our proudest moment at sequoia capital. It is not when we've had you know had funds close to twenty x it is not does twenty x fund. The most proud time is when we decided. No one's GONNA lose money at sequoia capital and we're going to go to work and we went to work for ten years to make sure that the other aspect you know listeners think this is just about reallocating fees are not. It's that you you had a lot of work to do with those companies because you still had those investments. It would have been easy to say. Yeah these are Zeros were just GonNa do whatever but you roll up your sleeves and say no. We're GONNA turn these into returning capital at a minimum so Mike Moore. It's is a bread. Strategic Mana few words things fourteen. Step ahead on my gregarious Italian and I'll tell you it hasn't always been easy. Mike would say the same thing by. We made a work for twenty years. And I'll tell you. During those times we thought exactly alike. You can burn a cigarettes and our arm and we're not GonNa Flinch. We're going to bring these funds home and it was amazing how two different cats with two different backgrounds with two different styles who get along a lot and and really argued some as you would imagine which is terrific because that means we pour two different views and issues. That is a strength during those times. There was no question where we're GONNA do. Yeah I don't think we ever have the conversation. I don't think we even such we do this. I just think we had to. Yeah that's a special thing to be able to to get in that lockstep with another person. Do you feel like that sort of that rare thing. That happens once or twice in a person's life. And how do you attribute sequoia success to you to being lockstep like that on that issue? Yeah look it happens and sports teams. It happens when people go to war. They never again feel. Why do people keep on going to Afghanistan? A reason they do that they missed that sense of career. I don't know if you study situations that that was wartime. Make no mistake Mike. And we weren't it wasn't our lives. I don't for a second. I I love and respect to people that serve country. The things they do are far more important far more courageous than Mike and I did. I want to make that crystal clear. We should be grateful to them but it was a similar sense of computering business. Lives it no nothing to do with business lies it was. It was the fact. Each one of our cells in our body could not do that. Nothing to do. We gotta save our career our money none of that. It had to do with being a bad ass and doing what nobody else would do. That's what has to do with do the right thing when it's inconvenient to you. Yeah yeah that's 'cause it yeah it would have been so many. Other firms did during the talent at the Mulligan. Their business lives were fine. We're talking about this era right around Google's founding and we're we're talking about your partner Michael. There's a quote that I I've heard you mentioned the past Reith. It's something along the lines of Michael telling you a few months after making the Google investment. We've we've never paid so much for so little. I think is what John Door told. Mike. Morris We did know what Google did. For a long time We knew we had smart founders. When you're aimed at Dea net and we just knew we have to be patient sometime patients. Sit on your hands You know I had a similar but a small story in Milwaukee. Smart found is couldn't figure out which way to go. And if you talk them what what this acquired demos they left the salon and let us figure it out. We hear that from so many founders on this show that have partnered with you guys that that's one of the biggest differentiating factors lead us. Let in the driver's seat let us figure it out. It fits creation time. The founders create. Now that could be execution time where they don't execute as well in which case you help them but in the thing I tell founders you get to do product mark over you should do. Product Market Fit. We can help you there. If you got product market fit. We can help you with everything else. And so when founders meandering they're away early on and focusing on something that's going to work later on you just let them create their the creators. I think this is actually a perfect transition to want to make sure we dive deep into what you in presumably. You and Michael created here at sequoia in your time and stewardship here. Which is you know. Sequoia was I think the phrase The Don at least two US was you invested in companies. That were a bicycle. Ride away from headquarters here. The decision to expand not just D- graphically but also product wise in terms of investment products. You offer how did how did that initiative happen so the first thing I I don't like the notion of you and Michael it is. We're all standing on each other's shoulders. Michael stood on Dan shoulders. I'm standing on my shoulders and Jim gets his shoulder and rule of shoulder so it is really we. It is really a we effort and the other thing when confused. There's only one curve. I look at for the decisions I have to make is the exponential curve of accelerated change. It's not linear it increases through time. Which means if you believe in that which means doing nothing is the worst thing can do. It's the riskiest thing you can do. And then we also know that in the early days of the curve. Y- over forecasts because you're linear thinker in the later days of the curve when the Kurdish deep you on the forecast so I'm not that smart a person but I know these simple principles and I and I know that doing do stuff takes a shot and we'll talk more about what that means but turned to claw back to Two thousand three two thousand four's Mike and I are both immigrants. This other immigrants here found as we look at our immigrants. More and more founders. And so I I started wondering what happens if the world becomes globalize. They're GONNA go home. And I thought of any as offices with posters from India companies in India and the US. Founder coming here and we don't have those posters. I thought Oh my God defense but Defense alone should make you do things and ran you. Think of the world. That's more globalized. The world is flat Blah Blah Blah. And I thought maybe we should go there. I learned that other firms were doing flyover going there and flying and flying and maintaining or making investment dual brand. And so you know I a few brain cells said if we're going to do something where are the large and growing economies that brought us to India? This are China and India. It then as I say then bring us to Vietnam because it grows but at small didn't bring us a year because it's big by growing so those were the two. Go so we started making trips in China. Meet teams trying to figure out how to get there. Investing teams our founding to investing founding investing team. And I'm very mindful of a line from an old sitcom from a scene there. The Sitcom is Hogan's heroes. Oh Yeltsin's here's your Colonel Klink is the commander of POW camp and you know he's a Putz obviously in the show. And Colonel Hogan is the American was very smart and Hogan and cling have a safe. And if you turn the handle one way you open a safe and there's money if you turn the handle the other way it blows it blows up and Hogan looks a clink clink. Which way and Clint goes left an organ pulls it right in and it opens and clint goes. How did you know and Hogan says I wasn't sure whether I'd get a right but I was sure that you would get a wrong and believe it or not? That scene is the scene that caused me to say. I know for sure Mike Morris and I if we make investments in China Williams arena. We didn't know if the team we found would get a right but we thought that was the lease riskiest thing to do. And so we're shopping for teams and we came across. It's funny I may twenty ships to China and then the team were introduced what was introduced to us by a founder of billpoint which is which was a predecessor to pay pal soul to Ebay She introduced us to two Chinese nationals. That grew up in China. Had Gone to school here. Which is exactly a WanNa have moved back to China at serve on the on the board of the same company focused media one was an investor. A. D. F. j. One was the founder Co founder of a company called CAE trip. We met them on a Tuesday. We met up again on Thursday and on a Friday morning and a conference in Koya. We did a handshake deal. No contract no anything. They're going to another venture firm in the afternoon. They cancel that meeting by Monday morning. Mike Morris God bless him had a PPM product placement for Sequoia China Wan and gave it to them with the notion that you want to delight your partners when people do a deal after deals done. You always find out. It wasn't as good as you thought we love doing the opposite when when people it'd be blown away holy cow well culture and of course the second person there was Neilson Neilson. There were two founders. One of them was the ocean and so we went fundraising. We'd still didn't have a signed contract and we raised one hundred sixty million dollars fun. We were ridiculed by limited partners. We held the annual meeting in Beijing. And a brand new hotel where the broke Everybody's freezing were slightly abuse that that has turned out to be a spectacular fund and the rest is history. Yeah what are some of the companies that Sequoia China has invested in Pin Dodo? Alibaba may Thuan Bite Dan. Santa Dot Dot dot without somewhere near fifty sixty. Ipo's and so. I had the idea a one page sheet. But if I tell you that that would leave you with a wrong impression at critical times where we needed. This is Kinda funny when we needed operationalize move. It was Mike that had the insight that we needed to make. Those movie was might and made the move so I never told Mike this. I was incredibly grateful that Mr Intuitive as I had him slotted in my brain became operational I ki- times even better than I was If truth be told and so it wasn't me it wasn't Mike. It was also quite because a wizz as we're doing this other people were carrying the load in America. You know And so it was a team it was truly a team effort so while you were an UN micro championing. Hey Hey we should be doing this because we think that the rest of the world's GonNa hit this inflection point or at least these areas. Did you have this? This is sort of a Bazo. Says them that's more recent but was there this sort of disagree and commit mentality for anybody who is here that knew that they had to hold down the fort even if they weren't pounding the table like you were? How did that go look for many years? There was sniping in the troops. Why are we doing this? Why wasting time because keep in mind that this is not about money. No one's making any more money because we all contribute the same amount China contributes. We contribute. You know it is not and we're talking about my mid-2000s when you know tencent and Alibaba exist but like it's not clear that they're going to be the China's GonNa be what it is. It's about building a dominant world class global powerhouse that at the same time connect very local because the foundation of our business is seeds. He few loose seed and venture. You become as I say private equity firm because later on all you have to compete on price and so how do you at the same time? Go global while not losing an inch on the local side and some of ABC's were made during those days and so we somehow managed to pull that off. Drop by isolated. Well the thing. I initially became the global person. Nobody else to do that somewhere. Along the line Mike and I reverse roles were he was Mr International. I spend more time in the US and in two thousand twelve. When Mike step down due to health reasons we've thought about shit three of us run it you know and we made the decision that I should run it by. We should have second in command and the logical was was summoned from the US. Jim Gets that time in Nielsen. The mix the incredible story. And thank you for sharing all this. At the same time that you're expanding geographically you're also expanding the suite of funds in each geography right in terms of adding the growth funds then ultimately the Global Growth Fund. How did you? How did you think about that? Decision and doing that. A separate funds versus one fund together. And obviously the company needs were evolving. Stay private longer and everything so the most important thing as I said is to be the first one hundred thousand dollars to help that founder. So whatever we did we understood. That is the strategic part of the House. We've always done seeds but we thought both for clarity. A thaw marketing. We should see fun because we're starting to have a lot of C- programs such as a Scout Fund and a whole bunch of others. We don't really talk about then. The world continued to change. And while it's never been cheaper to start a company and by the way I think the world change with Netscape. At least it had a major change which meant that. We went from being deep technology. Investors were we really only invested in technology pre netscape to being application layer investing across many market segment. Travel shopping iphone Internet. Being part of the reasons so I think started to happen. It's never been cheaper to start a company. I seat investing when when you're doing deep tech investing there's no need for seeds. It takes a little bit product now. If in be seed was six hundred thousand a dropbox was one point two million but that's because an APP can be built in a month at the same time though it's never been more expensive to launch a company. Why you've got businesses that of the words you in the economics. The O'Toole online to offline Uber Doordashan's Card and so on and then if you don't have those businesses turn the clock back. Twenty years ago we used to launch the US. Let's say in B. Two B. We used to be profitable five years later. We used to go to Europe. You can't do that anymore because he got sick and you have to buy. You can't do that you a launch the US six months later you launch your because if you wait by the time we get to Europe they'll be twenty competitors half a witch when it comes to the US so you've gotta run fast which means you have to spend a lot of money which means it's bigger and bigger rounds so we were seat in venture when we understood the companies need are more money and keep in mind. We're we're the folks carrying the suitcases. Where they're from. They won we. We're carrying the the luggage and we thought to ourselves. Yes we want partners by. Why are we letting other people come in and dictate terms to our companies? We were vulnerable and weak. So we got deeper into the growth business we vertically integrated and then when when rounds became even been larger and we have this incredible portfolio. Today maybe five. Six seven hundred companies. We launched a global growth in the global growth is a global vehicle to double and triple down in the best company in the Sequoia Portfolio and. Yes we partner with other firms and so on but we're able to enjoy the full ride. I view those being more tactical product versus e being more strategic. That's the most important one. And then we all sat a hedge fund because we realize that it's way tougher to go from zero to hundred million in revenues from zero to five billion market cap them from five to twenty five. And this is something we talked about this a lot in part one of Of this SARS equate history. The vast majority of the magnitude of gains of Returns Happen Late Post Post IPO. And so we you know. We learned to distribute shares to our clients carefully not the week after the IPO or or the week after the lockup we learned that a public investment vehicle would help us many ways including how to look at these companies retrospectively. If you're in a hedge fund you look back to two youth and you explain how you can grow up most of us that investment seen in venture look up we you know we look from zero to something. The Hedge Fund guys looked from a lot to something so we were able to have deeper conversations about companies and what companies could become dare to dream of what companies could become and so we found that to be quite useful and then we launch the heritage business. Which is to make it easier to family office endowment style and the reason for that and we have founders and friends of sequoia who had done quite well and wouldn't that be a terrific way to maintain a relationship or another thirty years. And so that's why we did it. These would just to try to build a global powerhouse which is what we want where we consider founders from idea to IPO and beyond to personal needs. I'll go I'll go so far beyond when they have the personal needs so we can have these relationships that will last a lifetime we'll take a equal percentage of our prophets. The Venture Group is is walnuts that China is peanuts. The heritage fun is cashews. We blend them and then we redistribute them so that we all get a share a mixed nuts but no one but no one gets more. Nuts is just different kinds of nuts. Yeah that financially into twine us. I see but nobody makes more money but we are all have bought in that. We'RE PART OF THIS TEAM. This global team where we help one another while doing the very right things for the founders because it is all about two founders founders come first by far limited partners most of ours nonprofits come second and we come third and it's not because we're altruistic because that's if we achieve that then it's the way to run the business for the next one hundred years and interesting takeaway here is as it became more and more expensive to get to your IPO. Were to get to be a scale global company. Because you have to do things exactly like you're talking about launch new GEOS. Faster grow more quickly to get ahead of your competition in these winner. Take all markets you know a major takeaway is a lot of firms took the specialization route. Where they say were purely series and they stay smaller or word dedicated seed. This new asset class were precede. Were growth or you know these. These Large Public Equity Institutions. Come private. And just stay growth capital but what sequoia said was. Look we're just going to grow with the company. The entire life cycle and take a very different approach rather than specialization. Exactly what you're saying to follow them and have the right products for that belong their entire growth curve. It's just a very different approach than a lot of people took and certainly there are other people doing something similar today but it feels five ten years later than than when you did it at Sequoia I'll make two points. The first thing is I will add. I agree with everything you said and to get their earliest possible doing the dollar second if we said we're an only in a firm what happens when and no company has a linear trajectory member. Your Google. They all have a little bump. What happens when the company is a little bump and you have to invest in their questionable? Round if you're only quote a firm only seat firm and you own twenty percent was your capital to show to the new investor that you believe and so because it's never linear because it's never a slam dunk from day one by being there. You can support the the company's at times were. There are dark clouds in the sky which helps attracts other investors to then get to the sunny skies. This is the perfect time since I know. We're running out of time to whichever to playbook. I think two questions. I really want to ask you in playbook If for Listeners Doug Playbook is we talk about let's abstract out some of the themes from this conversation to what's applicable to entrepreneurs running their businesses to us as we think about parting with companies. The first one is. It's destruct us in doing part one of the square history would actually like at. The core makes sequoia successful as some pretty simple things. Its focus on the market founders. Come I listen to what entrepreneurs tell you you know. Don't run your mouth be a business partner. Not An investor. How have you guys? You thought about staying disciplined on those core things as you've grown so much. I've imagined that takes a lot of active focus and effort. Yes there many answers. I think our little secret is our culture and when I was young and business I used to hear seals talk about culture. I thought it was a talking point. Hand to the CEO by Marketing. Nothing could be more incorrect And the culture sequoia if I can spend ten seconds on it please. His finding these quirky individuals who had shocked to their systems with something to prove. Who is. I say we're not quarterback of the football team in high school and you know what I mean by that. They were the shun ones if anything may be a couple. Iq points higher something approve. Maybe something happened. Family put him in an environment of teamwork and trust where relatively flat sequoia. So we've taken comp off the table letting them know it's okay to make mistakes and instilling instilling a culture that we're looking for the truth not your truth. Now my truth the truth in the middle of the table that helps the founder. A number of times I sat in a partners meeting after proclaiming a point I hear one of our young partners making a point. I Say. Hold on a second. I didn't think that his point is better than my point. I changed my mind and so an applying to everything that we do and realizing that we've done nothing realizing our worst enemy is a success. We had realizing that by virtue of market position because people hate us. Because who else are you going to attack number? Not The number fourteen for a number three firm issues more fun to attack the number one firm. It's what I would do. You Know I. It's just more sport Nolan. Bushnell told sometimes or no was trip. Hawkins sometimes. You don't want to be number one because then there's people sniping at you from behind into I actually argued that don used to say that Don Valentine say let's let somebody else be one It's better to be too. And so how do that is making sure we have a mindset that we've done nothing where mind said that we are here from going out of business. If you're Amazon you've got customers. You've got billions. You've got relationship if you're sequoia you have twenty chickens walking in the back that's all you have twenty chickens and our reputation so I tell people take the darn shot everybody's acquire with. No We'd rather go to business in the week. That in five years for sure And so it just have the mindset of take no prisoners. Do the right thing when it's painful to do so. Help founders recognize when there's no product mark? It's not always helped. It sounds so wonderful. At some point there's no product market fit the market spoken Nineteen Times. Then you have different conversation when the founders of five piece come see you and they say it's either him or her all of us those tough times but that happens once out of twenty times some firms do the calculus at says. Oh we don't WanNa ruin a reputation. Lead BYGONES BE BYGONES. We can't do that. It just goes against remember the nine hundred ninety nine a it goes against everybody. Everybody you have to help as much as you can. It's interesting that you you talk about how. It's a negative all the previous success. And I've heard you talked before about how you'd pull down the posters on the walls here of all these. Ipo's Red Baron. The Post is in. This room is very true. Still very lovely but it is lovely. Some would argue that the way that the venture model works affirmed like sequoia has massive benefit from this momentum of you've made great investments which then in hindsight make you sort of look like a kingmaker and so then you get all the best deal flow now because everybody wants to be a part of this aura. That you've created. Do you think there's truth to that or you think. That's a modicum shoe for that but success is a drug You know and you can't fall prey to that you know we've had investors here that have been successful made some money and then work hard you know. We have ten tenets sequoia number one is performance the other non important. But you're missing one the other nine. Dome matter. You could have clarity. Assad you have teamwork but you're not performing you're not here and I tell people we are not a family. Make no mistake. Where a team? If you don't like teams we are ashore. Production maybe the investors are the actors by you know the actors. Don't look so good without a script without the lighting person without a director and so everybody matters our team especially people that make us lunch and breakfast. They are the ones we have to treat with the most Hannah Dignity. They are our team members. The other ones that make this place run. And that's how Sequoia Works Internally Michael Road One of my favorite books of the last ten years Called leading Sir Alex Ferguson about his career. And you know obviously all that applies to go as well but but yeah it's a it's an organization that you're building. It's not family. That's been tastic all right now before we get into grading here. I'd like to thank Wilson. Seaney the official legal sponsor of season six of acquired Wilson. Sensini is the premier legal adviser to technology life sciences and growth enterprises worldwide as well as the venture firms private equity firms and investment banks. That financed them. Thank you to Wilson Sensini on degrading all right so doug on the show when we made an acquisition that you know we big company Buys Little Company facebook buy instagram and that we grade How how good of a use of capital that was in that instance as you're well aware is one of our foreign away a plus of a pluses and we thought about. How do we do grading on an episode like this and the way that we wanted to pose it to you are? What are some of the things as you reflect back you know in your stewardship and all your time at the firm where you would say? That was an a plus and some things where You SWUNG MISSED. Or You watch one go by and you say actually you know that's a CD or F- And you know we made up for it in this way but this is a way to be critical of of a previous decision. First of all I'll tell you the overall great I'd give us and then I'll drill down greater somewhere between being a B plus. That is what I would give us. I've given selves an for the War Room Times of nineteen ninety nine. Those were best days. I'd give a cell phone for the times when we had those fifty one forty nine conversation were will leaned the right way and then it gives us a lot of fs in things that came to this conference room and we just got him wrong and we tend to get them wrong for the most often reason is that we over think things. Sometimes we see revenue growth even early on and we over think. Well what can this company B. Y? You know we. And at some point revenue growth speaks for itself. I give a self fairly high grade and how we treat people how we wrap everybody. In Sequoia I give grades. We bring everybody in in this teamwork approach when we have an IPO. A Big One will send an internal note about how many people touch a company. You would be shocked to see how many names are attached to success. I'd give us grades on how we embrace failure our failure. It's always us I'd give us a much less. Agreed on a missus. Give us fs because a lot of them came through here so my blended grade. If I'm in a Mike Maritz mood I'll give ourselves be Doug Leoni mood. I'll give myself. I'd give ourselves a B. Plus it thank you for that. I mean it truly is hard to imagine a company at some point not coming through the the halls here. I'd be remiss not to ask you. Can you tell us the facebook story? This has been a frigging Hollywood film at this point. Had that actually go down so my daughter from Cornell toll us about facebook very very early on Kristen. Georges now product manager at instagram. And I told the to rule off and for number of reasons. Some good some bad some justified some not. We were never able to get in and we knew about facebook for a very long time which culminated in that presentation. Sequoia where Zach Mistakenly. Any sense said that obviously you know. We've all grown. We don't hold it against suck came to sequoia. I wasn't in that meeting because I was in China looking for teams but then we had another shot of facebook. We had a shot of facebook early on at a very high price and then we were asleep at the switch when all those eight nine. Ten billion dollar rounds were done completely asleep at the switch I'd give us lower than enough. I don't know what slow give us a G. Well you did have what's APPS. Oh Yeah it's Let's say that we got some facebook shares. Fantastic thank you so much doug for joining us. This has been really special Last question how can people and especially entrepreneurs get in touch with you and get in touch with sequoia? Send US an email. I remember I was on a panel. Once and about ten years ago and that same question they asked to three venture person and the venture person next to me said well. We like to go through law firms intermediaries to screen. It was my turn. I said eight five four three nine two seven which was a phone number. Does that still work still works. That was down in the night. We get a lot of calls but it's an e mails and make it a thoughtful email if you send an email to fourteen of us. No one's going to answer senescent email. That's I don't say spend a month on it by well thought out you know I'm there. I was This I want to start a company. Would you be interested in meeting something like that? They're semi meals. I just don't respond. There's no chance that you know there's no chance we're GONNA do that and is too many but if you send an email anywhere kneeled the viability that somebody may one in ten thousand chances. Ever make an investment. You'll get a response the aggressive antastic. Who all right. Well Doug thank you so much Listeners feel free to email doug and with that listeners. If you aren't subscribed and you like what you hear you should were available in any podcast player of your choice. If you want to become a limited partner subscribing gets you access to our bonus show where we go deeper into the nitty gritty of building companies. In real time to listen you can click the link in the show notes or go to glow dot FM slash acquired and all new listeners. Get a seven day free trial with that. Thanks again to Silicon Valley Bank and Wilson. Seaney and we will see you next time.

sequoia capital partner sequoia Mike US Founder Google Don Valentine Doug Mike Morris Kerry don Ipo Ceo China Sir Michael Merits sequoia fund Manhattan Italy Jim Guests Don Valentine Sequoia
Sequoia Capital (Part 1)

Acquired

1:45:54 hr | 1 year ago

Sequoia Capital (Part 1)

"I love it. You know the I'd been intending to upgrade and then when I was in New York. I'M GONNA go to the flagship Nike Store and get like the latest model. They don't make them anymore. They don't make the the flying that's anymore. Would they make finance but they don't make the free flight nets manic freefalling us so I think this might be the last bottle well to stock up yeah. Yeah I know what I'm doing this weekend. Welcome to season five episode four of acquired the podcast about great technology companies and the stories behind them. I'm Ben in Gilbert and I'm the CO founder of Pioneer Square labs a startup studio and early stage venture fund in Seattle and I'm David Rosenthal and I am a general partner at we've capital and early early stage venture fund focused on marketplace's based in San Francisco and we as you know are your hosts today. We are talking about the absolutely legendary in dairy sequoia capital and because it would be inappropriate to try to cover sequoias macular history in just one episode. This is only part one and typically. I try and throughout some stats in this section about why the company that we're covering on this episode is important today. I'm only gonNA throw out one. Since its founding in one thousand nine hundred seventy two the firm has helped to catalyze companies that now represent three point three trillion dollars of public market value and for context next the entire. Nasdaq is ten trillion dollars. It is frankly absolutely unbelievable that a single firm can be responsible for helping to create so much of our our modern economy. David this bananas yeah for Comparison Sake. What did we say next which is one of our a. Pluses we said generated needed a trillion dollars market cap value the next acquisition so here. We are talking about three point three trillion dollars. Obviously it's venture firm not a company but this is one of the reasons I've been so excited to dive into this new category here on acquired and can't wait to tell this history of square capital absolutely now before we dive in. I WANNA thank the sponsors of all of season five Silicon Valley Bank this wonderful paragraph that I have been given to draw from as inspiration starts out big ideas don't fit into standard packages but before we go on I want to dive into what that means in practice and and why does it make sense for entrepreneurs to bank Silicon Valley Bank startups aren't normal businesses at all. I mean what small one two three person company is going to somehow have millions dollars in their bank account but have little to no revenue for months if not years when you're running a startup you need a bank that understands the way startups work and is used to something that we all take for granted granted but it's actually a quite recent modern and specialized type of business right tangent over that's why Silicon Valley Bank has banking and financial solutions tailored for startups that help them reach their next milestones faster visit. SBA DOT com slash next any x t to learn more and thanks says always to Silicon Valley Bank so lastly are limited partner bonus show. This week was kind of fun flip for me. David interviewed me on what is a startup studio studio and how does it work and I dove our process here at Pioneer Square labs. If you WANNA listen and become a limited partner you can get started with a seven day free trial and listen right right here in the podcast player of your choice by clicking the link in the show notes are going to glow dot. FM Slash acquired. I promise it's very easy I like that. I like that. Yep All right David. It's time it's time let's do it so one thing that is often forgotten these days because it's just a name and is like you know reminds me of the quote about fishes in water where when you ask A. Fish Lake House the water water and that is that silicon valley is called Silicon Valley because of silicon even even though it is mostly software these days and the Internet so to set the stage for this episode we need to rewind back to the origin of Silicon Valley Alley and indeed silicon so we go back to nineteen fifty seven when this is really the moment I think you could argue when when Silicon Valley early as we know it both in terms of silicon and in terms of the concept was born and that was when he group of Eight employees leave a company called Shockley semiconductor actor Shockley Semiconductor Laboratory and start a new company that ends up being called Fairchild semi-conductor and this group of Eight and please goes on to be known as the traitorous eat and will link to in the show notes to this amazing photo willing to the wikipedia page of these individuals. It's just so great so nineteen fifty eighty seven in all the best ways. Why did these folks leave Shockley and start their own company and this was a radical thing to do at at the time well? Shockley semiconductor was started by Bill Shockley and bill was a genius he was the CO inventor of the transistor that that he and helped helped event when he was a bell labs and for that he won the nineteen fifty-six Nobel prize when he literally helped him vic computing but he did have a dark side and that dark side was that he was a terrible manager and people hated working for him and to help you can get the picture at this point point in time and then for kind of the rest of his life. He became a white supremacist and was a proponent of eugenics. So this is the sort of person we're talking about that would prompt people as brilliant as he was and has amazing the innovation that was happening at Shockley would be prompted to maybe leave and do something rash. So who are the trader seat well among them there some names you might recognize starting with Gordon Moore of Moore's law and Bob Noyce who of course the two of them would go on to found Intel although that's a story for another day and Eugene Kleiner who would go on to help found Kleiner Perkins which is another venture firm story for another day but what was interesting is when when they left they started fairchild. It wasn't actually a startup in the way that we think about it today. It wasn't an independent company. It ended up up a data really tough time getting it financed and so how it ended up being organized was as the West Coast Semiconductor Division of an East Coast Company called Fairchild Camera and Instrument Corporation so fairchild was located back on Long Island in New York and they owned the company so so funny. I always assumed that Fairchild was like one of the traitorous eight no not at all yeah. They didn't actually own the company. I believe it equity but no so how did this happen a man named Sherman Fairchild at this point in time who lived in Long Island was the largest shareholder in IBM because his father there had helped finance Tom Watson in forming IBM. many years been years earlier so when the traits eight were trying to get their new company off the ground they intersected intersected with a man named Arthur rock who's GONNA come up again in a minute here was one of the early Proto Venture Capitalists in California and he was a former investment banker and he was trying to to get financing it was really hard and so he ended up going to Sherman Fairchild because he knew Sharon was largest shareholder in IBM was interested in technology and Sherman agreed we to set this up as a division of his camera and Instrument Corporation. Wow creative yeah which is which is the way it happened. They loaned loaned one and a half million dollars to the company in return for which they get an option to buy all the stock of the company for three million dollars. Imagine if structured deals that way today with founders it wouldn't wouldn't quite set up the rate set of sales but you got to crawl before you can walk. Fairchild would lead to many many things including of course Intel and we'll we'll get into that a little bit later. I mentioned Arthur rock so what was the financing environment for quote unquote startups in California at this point in time knowing how markets work I think we can assume that there wasn't much of it given the terms of that other investors so as you might guess from. Somehow Fairchild was financed the quote unquote venture capital industry or the Proto Venture Capital Industry that existed in California at this time was pretty much. Nothing like like we know it today for one it was so small that the individuals who are doing it all of them in California they would meet for lunch once the month at the Mark Hopkins Hotel in San Francisco at like a table regular table and they would sit around and and talk about like the various companies that they were working on that was that was that was the entire tire industry and for to none of them actually came from a technology or a startup or company background so Arthur Rock uh we mentioned he was an investment banker and a few other folks that were kind of instrumental at this point in time Pitch Johnson and Bill Draper draper might ring a few bells for folks folks they had worked in the steel industry and come out to California and started financing companies. There was another gentleman named Tommy Davis. He was a real estate developer who developed an interest in this this sort of thing so that was that was really the state of things and you know as evidenced by Fairchild you know here you have eight of the most talented did scientists and engineers working in the highest growth industry in the world and it's literally impossible to finance them. They have to get essentially bought by an East Coast Company to even get their companies filed. It's interesting like a- venture capital falls under the broad asset class today of alternatively investments which always seems a little funny he given how much especially today with all the late stage money coming into startups how much money is really invested their silly to call it alternative now when you look at it in these days is very much you had to be a very alternative counterculture person to you believe that this was the best way to invest your money so it's right at this moment in time that a quite a maverick when might say individual digital comes on the scene and basically basically single handedly rates the playbook of what modern venture capital and alongside excited what a modern startup would look like and that man's name is. Don Valentine so don of course goes on and start sequoia capital and we're going to tell this story here. I cannot recommend highly enough. Anyone weather certainly if you work in interested in venture but even if not if you're just interested in technology algae startups go do two things one watch the youtube video of a talk the Dan gave at the DSP at Stanford in two thousand ten and to read this wonderful wonderful oral history that Berkeley did as part of the history department there with Don and you'll get a sense for what an amazing character. This guy is an and a lot of this is a lot of the history of this show is taken from those two documents and listeners the way to think about part one and part two of the sequoia story or you part one that we're going to focus on here. This is really don story yeah and it's really cool actually the talk that he gives at Stanford he holds up towards the beginning of it the resume resume of an individual who had just quit capital that week that individual is Alfred Lin of course friend of the show and former guest amazing he printed out Alfred resume and go to this talk that Alfred like had a resume at that point he was CEO and chairman Zappa's that just been acquired for over a billion dollars but always always hustling okay so who is done so he was born in Nineteen thirty three in Yonkers New York back on the east coast his father father was a teamster so delivery truck driver and a Union member if you can imagine it which Don took ends up taking a very very different path in in life his parents were completely uneducated both of them neither of them had finished grade school. dials out like not like hadn't gone to college. hadn't finished grade school. No literally like had not finished elementary school but in good Catholic fashion they do value education and especially Catholic religious education education and so don grows up in New York going to Catholic schools and then he does he ends up going to fordham university a Jesuit University graduates in the early early nineteen fifty s and promptly as most folks did back then at least most men gets drafted into the army this is I believe rape either daring right before when the Korean War is going on according to Dan he quote had a terrible attitude about the military he didn't like and doesn't like regimentation and this is is going to become very clear. Don does things his own way but one thing that he loves is electronics and technology and he ends up getting put in charge in the army of his words trying to teach senior officers to use modern technology instead of the way that they were inclined to fight wars which was with like Eh Horses and cavalry all that's the army don still don't really mix so he transfers to the navy and this is a major are major moment for him because he gets stationed in California he comes out to California and he steps off the boat and he's like I have reached the promised land. It doesn't snow here in the winter. I'm never going back to the east coast. I love this place. His goal is he wants to find employment at a West Coast Electronics Company so he gets out of the Navy it ends taking a little while he first gets a job at sylvania electric which was actually based in Pennsylvania. I believe he was working for them into your is that the vacuum cleaner company what's the vacuum. Tube company so this is how he gets into technology because this is still the semiconductor I believe had been invented by Shockley and others at this point most computing such as it was being done with vacuum tubes. Remember the any act like this is what we're talking about back in these. I guess I know Sylvania's senior lighting company. I think they make light bulbs logo around like home. Depot Eddie say make light bulbs now who knows what the corporate structure of the company is these days at the time they're making vacuum tubes and selling them as as competing components mostly to the Defense Department and of course down had come from the military so don ends up jumping ship to Raytheon and moving to Los Angeles so here he is. He's finally achieved his goal. He's living in. La Out in California California love and Life Surfing he was a big water polo player and he's working in what at the time was the high technology industry industry selling computing solutions to the Defense Department in the military he starts taking part time courses at the business school at Ucla focused on sales and marketing because we're really interested in of course sales which is his job but also the marketing component like who are we selling to and why and he has a great quote he says you ah where is the decision making process integrate company. The answer is it's in marketing in a well run company the Marketing Department in conjunction with the Science Department science being gene engineering. It's time decides based on what their capabilities are. What the problems they can solve what sequence they should solve them in and how much money they can spend they can spend on building that that product and how big is the market? Who's going to buy this stuff and all that happens within marketing in a primary position? This really becomes Don's life passionate. Hashing ethos ends up informing everything he does and everything. It's quite capitalist. We'll see so after a short stint at Raytheon he ends up getting recruited to move up to northern California and joined a fresh start up in a really hot semiconductor your company up there. Fairchild semi-conductor was was fairchild independent at this point or where they still a part of the the bigger umbrella no they were they were this was still very early. They were part of of of Cameron Instrument as C Don Joins. He's not part of the traders eight but he joins. He's like employee number forty or fifty. They're doing a couple million dollars in sales els but still really small and at first they put him in charge of of selling Fairchild Semiconductor's to defense firms back in southern California so they sent it back down to southern California and she's kind of funny. It's it's exactly what he's doing the army right. It's educating out modern technology to people who who had been doing things in older way and trying to basically do a very complex sale. I mean it's kind of amazing that like you know. Don's history from yonkers New York everything basically basically you know sets them on. It's like Steve jobs quote of like you can't connect the dots looking forward but looking back. Everything done prepares you for what you're doing now. Don Don basically knocks it out of the park selling selling to defense contractors down in L. A. He takes the company from at this couple million dollars in sales when he joins to over one hundred fifty million dollars in annual sales in just a couple years and and it's over that time he gets promoted ends up running all of sales and marketing for Fairchild and he starts using everything that he's learned his passion for marketing to tap into like hey eight. Maybe we should be selling to other markets. To which other markets should we be selling and are there things that we can do to customize the chips that were making to make the more applicable to these other applications records the quotas. Here's business was so good. I mean this was like to be at this moment. In time. It was like it was leaked to be there. In the mid mid nineties when the Internet was taking off for the Mid-2000s One web two was taking off and it was literally just like you could see the roadmap of what all the applications we're going to be and it was just like go build them first and best yeah not only did the semiconductor have perfect product market fit but it scaled horizontally across tons of industries. I mean everybody was going to need equipment that required semiconductors and and I think now we take it for granted who actually were in this phase where we're sort of moving forward from. It departments into you know companies that don't have it departments but this was the development of it. You know this was ever every company that was starting to embrace technology would use something with semiconductor products in it. Yeah I mean we're we're going to see this here in a minute with the personal computer and Apple but then with the Internet than with web two dotto then mobile like you have this tectonic shift and then it's like okay okay. We know what the applications are. Let's go build. The applications and John is really the first person in in technology recognize that these are this is the dynamic of how the broader our technology ecosystem works so he says business was so good that we had more opportunities than we had engineers and we devised a bit of an ad hoc technique for evaluating. Are you waiting different companies companies that fairchild could potentially work with and sell to before we commit our engineering resources to work on them on a specific project we had understand the nature of the application and understand the size of the market there a number of kind of highlight things that we did before we committed engineering and you could think about that and think about like gosh man that sounds a lot lake writing an investment memo for a venture capital firm. It's also what what an incredible privilege to to being a position where you get to pick your customers based on who you think is going to be the most successful with your product yeah yeah totally so remember though uh-huh. Don's working at Fairchild he's taken them from a couple million in revenue to over one hundred and fifty million in revenue and this is like the early nineteen nineteen late fifties early nineteen sixties so one hundred and fifty million wasn't just one hundred fifty million back then remember though Fairchild. It isn't an independent company. It's a subsidiary of this long long island-based East Coast you know conservative Cameron Instrument Corporation so every time that don is working on building you you know a new customization and application market that Fairchild wants to enter he asked to go to the board of the company and get their approval for what they're doing and concerts that goes well enough like incentives are line of course. Fairchild wants wants the company to grow and do well but don gets this idea. He's like you know week. He could really accelerate our market and our partners that we're working with a lot of these applications. Companies are new entities entities that are integrating our technology into a full solution for a given industry. They're getting off the ground. We really accelerate things if we invested in these companies and helped them help them build themselves because the the bigger that they get and the faster that they get bigger the more sales. They're going to have more sales. We're going to have right. It's this ecosystem assistant mindset. We help invest to build the ecosystem around our products totally so he thinks this is brilliant. He takes this idea to the board and the board his he's like absolutely not. That's a crazy idea who ever would want to do that so don in in typical down fashion he says well screw it. If the boards not going to do this. I'm just going to start doing this on my own with my own money when he would be working on the on the technology and marketing roadmaps for for Fairchild and working with startups to help build applications he would just start investing small amounts of money personally in these start ups that he knew that he was going to make them. I'm into big companies. The only problem though is like he's doing this personally. He doesn't have enough capital to really get these companies. All the way to work and you know it's so funny. How like we we don't care wave like you know. You're you're raising money for a new start up and they don't even today twenty Nineteen Lake the answer for how much capital title you need always comes back to like you know somewhere between one to three million to get off the ground and that was the case even back then is this is totally amazing. This is like my one of my biggest tech themes but it is crazy looking at their first five investments two of them were at two million and one of them was a two and a half million and it like it is today seed round and yet what they're doing is. They're building freaking you know semiconductor physical applications like they're using semi conductors to make another product physically manufacturer facture like it is the facturing like totally yes so even back in the sixties a couple million back then was a lot more in today's dollars. You had to do all this really hard stuff. Don Starts doing this fast forward to nineteen sixty seven and another company in the valley. that had been around for a longtime it was kind of foundering called national semiconductor and national makes a big play. They're already a public company. I believe they they poach a number of people from Fairchild including Charles spock who becomes the CEO of national and Pierre Lemonde from a AH name. That's GONNA come up again racy appeal from Fairchild who becomes the chief chip designer and head of Engineering there so Charlie spock CEO so he does a couple of really interesting things. I is so everybody in Silicon Valley at this point remember. It's called Silicon Valley because they're making silicon chips. They're making the chips. They're in northern California Fairchild producing them. They're all these companies that Don's investing in their doing manufacturing right there Charlie and national he off-shores ars chip production to Asia and he he reasons that like hey the intellectual property that we're building here. We can just do all the design and building here and we'll just just outsource. The actual production of these chips of the silicon is a commodity so that creates a huge price war in the industry and massively passively lowers the cost of silicon which then ends up in ebling all the things that comes shortly thereafter including the PC. We should also say that the incredible all growth in demand for silicon is fair child's fault because Fairchild was the one who pioneered the idea that silicon was actually the most effective material to US four semiconductors conductors. That wasn't the case before I believe before. Fairchild people were using GERMANIUM semiconductors which is a rare precious metal. Yep National would actually go on later to acquire Fairchild and then do you know who would ultimately become the of national semiconductor. This is this. This is like the beginning valley being a small place and all of these dynamics enabling the personal computer Gil Emilio. Oh what yes house apple fame yes future. CEO OF APPLE I I've laundering CEO of and I believe his first CEO Gig was taking over for Charlie as CEO National Yeah so all of this is going on. Fairchild is on the ropes in Nineteen Sixty Gordon Moore and Bob Noyce leave Fairchild Child. So Don Valentine still there and they start. Intel and Don sees the writing on the wall. He's like Oh man. Fairchild is cooked brain-drain. Yeah brain-drain just like Silicon Valley today. These things start happening like the the key leaders really smart people start leaving the writings on the wall he leaves. He moves over to national as head of sales and marketing national now. This is where serendipity completely strikes if John hadn't made this move I seriously doubt that there would be quiet capital and there may not be a modern venture capital industry as we know it today so Charlie is obviously Salihi brilliant and this move of outsourcing production of chips is revolutionary to the industry and oppression and quite present but there's one thing that he's absolutely terrible at and that is public speaking and that's one thing the Dow is not afraid of so remember nationals public company and they have to do earnings calls with Wall Street even back in nineteen sixty eight Charlie's terrified of this he doesn't WanNa do them and so as soon as don shows up he says Great Dan your head of sales and marketing you lead the earnings calls. Would you be unheard of today for I mean it's your CEO and your CFO without you know without without exception Yup Yup and you have other executives on there from time to time but Asher leading it dance tights leading the earnings calls through that he gets tim no a lot of the shareholders of national and it turns out that one of their largest investors is an enormous public investment fund based based in Los Angeles back and downs old stomping grounds called at the time called the American funds and that was part of this institution called Capital Group which I think a lot of people well don't know about but capital group still today is one of the largest mutual funds and pulls. A mutual funds money managers in the world. Am I believe they have well over a trillion dollars in capital under management across many many funds capital group they had been seeing what was starting to happen up in the new Proto Silicon Valley they'd seen the until IPO that had happened. which had was the first into was the first true venture venture backed company that had gone public and all the wealth that agreed and who originally backed Intel. I believe as Arthur Rock rock organized a syndicate correct. Intel with equity well. It was a convertible instrument. It was like convertible debt. I believe a story for another day so capital group. They'd seen this and they actually funded. Amd an amd also came out a fairchild which I didn't know research for this for this story so yeah both Intel telling amd both were fairchild alumni. I mean the really August back to the traitorous eight in this legacy of Lake hate leaving dying companies and and starting new ones out of them that propels Silicon Valley to its day to this day that is so much like all these other industries. We've talked about verizon. At and T. basically both coming out of the the original massive. At and T. Company feels like chip companies are not unique in this characteristic of both modern giants. It's coming from the same source yeah yeah so capital group. They've invested. They've privately funded. AMD they're big investor in national so so they're like you know especially as a public investment vehicle. They're at the forefront of being investing in Silicon Valley in its growth they get to know don on and they learn from done about all this private investing is doing and so they approached him with an offer howl about he do this fulltime leave national national and common start working with them at capital group. They'll give him you know certainly capital and they have more capital than probably just about anybody in the world at this point in time access to capital and take him from you know the couple thousand dollar personal checks these able to write great to finance these companies up to enough that he can actually support them to get to get to a public offering where they need to so don jumps at this chance. This is his true passion. He loves this and this is a chance to take all of these road maps and marketing and market analysis this skills that he's developed and just have this be his full time job. This is of course the birth of the illustrious name. We all know today capital L. Management Services Inc he well. It was part of apple groups. We'll get into the structure in a second. I want to throw in a few great quotes from from down here. He talks about why he had the courage to think that he could do this fulltime. This is crazy like nobody is investing fulltime in private technology knowledge companies at this point in time. It's it's you know a bunch of folks who made money in other industries having lunch at the Mark Hopkins Hotel. Remember and down is going to make this his full-time job so he said I had a sense sense that my system of selection would work far more than it wouldn't but I didn't have the resources personally to play Texas. HOLD EM and put up more chips the opportunity to have a large discretionary Mary Pool of money to continue to support the investment. Ideas was the difference in the environment. I was in and the environment I was interested in going to and after twelve or thirteen years in the semiconductor business I I had a very high profile reputation in this community and again he was already doing the investing privately so he says so people who are interested in starting companies often gravitated to me to help them start their companies from their point of view. I had some money I knew how markets worked and how to help them position their company in the market so I had a bit of an unfair advantage in those two respects back but the most unfair advantage I had was I knew what the future was and very few people knew what the future was. Nobody else nobody else in the venture capital industry at this point was from the semiconductor business. Nobody else knew marketing and nobody else knew the microprocessor. So it's kind of like Don has this as we've talked about rose three pretty valuable able things to be good at at this point in time exactly exactly so like if you think about what what he's saying so it maps pretty exactly to the core functions of a venture capital firm so on sourcing he has a network of super talented technical people scientists with the right experience to start technology companies. He's his name is don perfect. He's like the original Silicon Valley Mafia dot a that's one that's top of the funnel that sourcing but then he has this unique experience variance that he knows all the road maps of Fairchild and national and the whole semiconductor industry he knows what markets attack so he has like the selection judgment of which founders and ideas to invest in and then he has the ability to actually help them unlike anybody else in the industry at the time actually help them build their companies through through certainly recruiting management teams but also strategy and decisions in the early days because he's lived through it so we can help them build their companies and now finally through capital group he he has access to essentially an unlimited pool of capital which again nobody else in the industry had people were having to go back to the East Coast Fairchild to finance their companies so David. You're saying an unlimited pool of capital. How does that really breakdown and how much money from the capital group. Don really invest in startups exactly so this is nineteen seventy-two. Don Leaves he I started working with capital group and capital group sets up a new five million dollar fund for their clients who want to invest in this high risk high return startup in the semiconductor industry in in in northern California and Capital Group calls it the quote Unquote Sequoia and and this is the capital group came up with the sequoia and I don't know I don't know if capital group or don did but it is it is within capital group this nineteen seventy two five million only dollar fund is called Disquiet Fund and so don starts working on this on behalf of Catholic group in capital groups clients but you know again. Don's kind of like a maverick and he does things thinks his own way he really. He's not super interested in just working for capital forever. He really wants to do this himself. And capital group totally supports him in that so he he starts making investments on behalf of them but he also starts working in parallel on creating his own fund and own firm that he's GonNa Call Sokaia capital and raising an outside fund and you would think this would be easy. I mean Don. has this amazing track record. He has a brilliant strategy that nobody else can replicate kate. He knows what's going to work. He has the he has the Arno. LP's well who he has the stamp and Imprimatur of capital group you know one of the most storied money managers in the world at that point in time and Dan he learns a lesson that you know generations of people who start new firms have learned again and again we learned it wave which was that even with all that starting raising a first time fund is really freaking hard like Blake really freaking hard yeah what was doing was raising a first time fund for an asset class that didn't yet exist so for Dan. There weren't a group of investors who were used to putting the money in this risk return profile. It was going in convincing them. Hey like there's not really historical data on this but you should take a fly or not only on me but on this entire concept yet totally. I mean you gotta remember. This is pre you know for for listeners who know about David Swanson at Yale the Chief Investment Officer. Ah Yale he really pioneered this approach that large pools of capital especially tax exempt nonprofit pools of capital should should put a lot of their assets in alternative investments where they can get extremely high returns over a long time horizon and because their tax exempt they can compound those returns at a much higher rate than than ordinary folks. This concept didn't exist so most pools of Capital University endowments foundations family offices in the lake. You know all all of Catholic bonds treasury bills. It's fixed a little bit of stock yeah. They're investing in and these folks. They're targeting across their investments a ten percent. Irr which you know is a great and better than like the average market returns but it's nothing Lakewood. Don thinks he can generate and what the venture capital industry promises so he goes on. He makes this pitch about like hey. I think I can at least double ten percent. IRR and if you look at my personal track record like it's much more than that and indeed sequoias first few funds would be well well above ten percent irr many multiples above that reception option. He gets is like well. This doesn't sound like the investing business you know this isn't fixed income this and and downs like yeah. You're exactly right. This isn't the investment business. This is the company building business. I'm in the business of starting and helping build great companies and he so right. I mean that is what true early early stage venture is. It's not you know investing allocating money and seeing what happens it's really digging in and helping start from scratch. That's where to this day. You know the deep the the true outlier returns are but the l. p. community is just like they don't get so down tells us great story because to see Salomon Salomon brothers in New York story which I believe it was Solomon Brothers that was the subject of Liar's poker Michael Lewis facebook and and he sits down with the folks there. He gives them the pitch and they say I see that you didn't go to Harvard Business School and he says I didn't go to Harvard Business School. Well I went to Fairchild semi-conductor business and they didn't like laugh at all and they're like we're not going to invest with anybody who didn't go to Harvard Business School. so it ends up taking him almost three years while working with capital group to raise the first independent. Sequoia Fund but finally in nineteen seventy that that was like single digit like how big was that fund. I couldn't get the exact data well I saw a couple of conflicting sources but I believe it was was somewhere between three to five million so quite quite small and that's what three years of work on it thinking about the Tassie I mean most people would give up yeah totally think of sequoia capital title today and then think back to the early seventy s and one man Don Valentine scraping together for three years just because he believes so deeply in in this vision of the future to to put you know three to five million together and start investing lake it really dislike tells you a ton about you look at their ethos today today and this is where it comes from once you get started. He sets what he calls a few ground rules for investing so these are this is the original sequoia capital investing checklist. First one must be in a very big market. The potential investment too must be in northern California. That's two inch three must be in advanced technology for must have high gross margin ability that is also two inch and five must have the potential for sequoia. Eh One hundred million dollars on the investment. I mean that's incredible like a three to five million dollar. Fund still he's only aiming for shooting for the moon sequoia alone could make one hundred million dollars on these investments which is basically by today's standards saying it has to be a unicorn because in general an early stage call it a series A. INVESTOR IS GONNA get diluted to around ten percent ownership by the time. There's an exit sort of the finger in the air way. You would think about this stuff. Offs acquires had some examples where they've bought up more think dropbox and there's also examples that were about to go into where the terms were much different and and you didn't just by fifteen to twenty percent of company bought much more in these early days companies. Most of them weren't raising multiple rounds. So Sequoia was financing that was the only private capital they're raising and then they were going achieving profitability and going public but still you know you think about today. People talk about you know. Oh have you seen investment you. GotTa underrate underrate tax returns even from Day One don's underwriting to twenty x plus returns and if he doesn't see that and still to this day I mean I think one of the things sequoia is really known for is they will only attack markets that truly have the potential to be large like a billion dollar. Market is not enough for them. You need a multibillion dollar. ideally ten plus billion dollar market because again like they're aiming for each of their investments to make twenty x plus and in the final. I love this. The final item on the checklist for for downs criteria for investing is must be positively responsive to our active participation. You know which is great though at Aetna obviously Donna developed quite a reputation as we as we talked about with trip on the episode being very active and being not only governance but influencing management of the companies. This is really critical Lake Don. He has the credibility ability to be very active in these companies because he has helped build the previous generation of of defining companies that are setting the roadmap map for everything. That's going forward. The other thing that he develops is is is a methodology for assessing entrepreneurs David Book before diving into the entrepreneur side of things the thing that struck me on these ground rules as we've danced around a couple of times here don plays by his own roles and he sort of has this ethos of the this this early stage investment businesses of subjective business. It's not a highly analytical data driven business like it's a it's a feeling business and yet in these ground rules. It's interesting to see what hard and fast financial things jump out so even this high area of subjectivity in Gut feel must have high gross. Margin ability is in there as one of these precious few rules as an early stage investor. That's that's really ringing home to me and thinking about how important that is in the ability to to sort of of course scale company but generate outside returns the only number that you see here. Is that that hundred million. I'm the only thing that sort of close to resembles. A number is high gross margin ability. It's interesting to think about what makes the cut well at. This also leads into the his. This is method for assessing entrepreneurs but Don You know as so many other things in pioneering venture capital industry like I think he I don't think he would put it in these words but he recognized that this is a business that is both art and science and that is what is so incredibly incredibly awesome and fun and rewarding about working in this industry and in early stage venture capital but again if you think back to the folks that were doing this before it was all art you know and if you think to a lot of the entrepreneurs who are starting companies like the trader is aid it was all science like they weren't thinking about the art of like Oh. How do we make this until like a huge wealth generating vehicle for ourselves and for the ecosystem it was like we just want to go do science and let's like find some way to do. Science and I and Don is really the first person I think to bridge this gap the methodology for assessing companies not to preneurs he kind of goes back to and I assume he was doing in this one. He was working at companies to remember. He has this Jesuit Education and Baddiel Catholics upbringing background and he goes to he goes to the socratic method still to this day. I think this is a lot of how sequoia runs their interactions with entrepreneurs. They ask questions and then they just listen to the answers. There's this is such a key to being a great. VC One thing that I struggle with ton is like you can. The temptation is always to insert yourself into to what's going on. Don recognizes that like what you need to do is listen to what the entrepreneurs are saying you agree or disagree or like understand or not. I understand but like you need to understand how they think about things. Not How you think about things and it's it's not about their answers but wh y they're thinking that answer is the right answer and how they arrive there and what the thought processes and so eight. Oh Don talks a lot about if you watch the youtube video of of of him Stanford how formulating question he believes is the most important thing in his business and so he has a rule that questions can only be twenty words or less he would. He solicits questions from the audience at Stanford. He says twenty lesser. I'll kill you it's great but that's how he approaches things because he's really interested in the storytelling technique of of the entrepreneurs because he says it's about the building of the idea the size of the market that degree of technical risk to get this product finished who's going to care and explaining that in a very simple way we can tell that that person who can do that explain it in a very simple way somebody we want to be in business with people who are instead complex rambling all over the place. They're not you know. Donnas realized that the value the only competitive advantage that startups have is focus and speed and stealth and so if you're all over the place you're not not going to be able to execute on those things and that's still true today so David. How do you square all of this with Don's sort of of oft-stated principle that he invests in markets not founders yes. How does this assessment of founders fit into that notion. Well you know and I'm asking you as technology historian not yes obviously you're not in doubt. Don's exactly well I think of course they're interrelated related and lake all investing it is it is early stage investing. It is about both the market and the team but I think that's this is the key is like the market is the important thing thing but you need a team gets back to Don's last point on his checklist of must be receptive to our active participation. You need a team. That's going to be focused and and able to quickly get the right solution into the market and so he has this really great quote that I think encapsulates. This says so. Our view has always been preferably. Give us a big technical problem. Give us a big market when that technical problem is solved so we can sell lots and lots and lots of stuff. Do I like to do that with terrific like people sure are willing to invest in companies that don't have them sure you can augment management. You can help them with more people that are highly qualified. We we invest in the size and the dynamics of the market. I don't care if Gingas Kahn is running the company. We'll give Giga Council health and give me a giant market always Steve Jobs is GONNA come up in a minute here but I think you know his point about Gingas. Kahn is that Gingas Kahn maybe gingas Kahn but he was focused on on you know winning and speed and conquering and that's what they're looking for and that just beat the metaphor to death and that Genghis Khan also also has weaknesses and therefore must have a team that surrounds and compliments and I think don has some quote I don't have it exactly but about how the the most critical thing for an entrepreneur went sort of listening to these questions what are you listening for is is really this self awareness of what they're good at what they're not exactly a point number six how receptive captive. They're going to be two to being helped with those weaknesses. Yeah I mean again. Think back to this moment in time. The people that were starting these companies they were engineers. They were scientists by and large and Don's superpower was he was able to augment these companies in these teams with breath folks like himself who were able to sales and marketing and go to market and then sequoia could help argument augment with finance and Accounting and everything around that and and the outsourcing of all that what he couldn't have was folks who thought they knew everything so what actually did they end up investing in once they closed this the first Sequoia Capital Fund in Nineteen seventy five so it turns out. Don makes his first investment in indeed a quite giant market enabled by semiconductors but one a little off the beaten path and certainly different than the defense contractors that he started his career selling to and that was as Atari and we're GonNa talk much more about Atari later in the season ear on acquired but it was the very first independence equate capital investment don invests six hundred thousand dollars in the company in nineteen seventy five and the very next year the company ends up getting acquired by Warner Communications for twenty eight million dollars. He's at sequoia makes a quick for x return which is great great. IRR but does fall short of the twenty x that Don is hoping hoping to under a to did I find a different source on that. I thought it was a two million dollar initial investment or was it did he do a follow on for two million and I believe the initial investment was six hundred k. Now Atari had also already been around for quite why not Donna three years they had gone without before raising. Yep and Don had no no Nolan Bushnell the CEO for for many years so I have to assume this was one that he had kinda waiting in the wings until he closed the fun which venture capitalists should have went out raising their first fund is an investment. We did that too that we have. It's amazing. It's amazing how much the industry is still the same so then in nineteen seventy seven sequoia makes what could have been uh is their biggest and most important investment ever and unfortunately becomes perhaps their biggest most important lesson just to pile one more thing on on before the big reveal which everyone probably already knows is responsible for about a trillion of that three point three trillion number that I quoted of public market value today. Yeah Yeah Yeah well. It's a good thing they still have another two point three trillion that part of so in one thousand nine hundred ninety seven as aaa two on our episode Sequoia Royal Investment and other little company that was founded by an early former Atari employee that was Apple Computer Steve Jobs had worked for Nolan Bushnell Atari and Don had gotten to know a little bit then and they still jobs and was had started the company and they brought on Mike Scott as the first president the company now we should say de Doug to no jobs a little bit at that company but did not have the impression that this was a venture backup old guy at this in time. I believe his quote on. Steve Jobs was that he looked like Ot Min I so mike the the two steves had brought on the first president and it turns out Mike used to work for Don back at Fairchild and national and so don gets wind of the company company he meets with them and Don also knew a very important guy in apple's history. Mike Marla also used to work for dod back in the semi conductor. Today's and Dan Quote Unquote sends him to the company with the intention that Markel is going to replace. Mike Scott is the president run the company ultimately though the trip talked about mark makes brilliant decision says you know. I don't actually want to run this thing day today. I'm going to be the chairman and really help these guys but regardless with this in a perfect example of Don's company building at work and management team at recruiting on the back of this apple raises their first venture capital round of just over over half a million dollars interestingly the lion's share the capital comes not from sequoia but from Vin rock which does a little over two hundred fifty thousand dollars Donskoy. Let's go to one hundred and fifty thousand dollars. Arthur rock does the balance so apple is off to the races and they really you know as we've chronicled many times and will continue to chronicle in the future really invent the personal computer usher that wave of technology in two years later though this is this is the David side there comes. This is just so painful so painful and clearly has left its mark on on sequoia two years later. I couldn't find all of the circumstances around this but to the best of my understanding so the first Sequoia Fund did not have only tax exempt nonprofit. LP's in it it also had I believe feeding individuals and maybe corporations and Dot Salomon Brothers better there folks like and certainly capital group as a result of that those folks needed to pay taxes and apparently some of these LP's or encouraging aging don to make distribution of some of the gains in the fund so that they could pay their taxes on the gains and so apple had grown quite quite a lot. It's now nineteen seventy-nine and Dan before the IPO cells sequoia steak which they had invested one hundred fifty thousand dollars for six million dollars A to make this tax distribution to LP's. Now that's an enormous returns phenomenal phenomenal return but oh my goodness six million dollars compared to what apple you know would shortly become and then ultimately in the long term of course become and it's this lesson that drives Sequoia Sequoia in subsequent funds to take to take their capital only from nonprofit tax exempt sources which becomes really not certainly the norm across the industry but a goal in the lion's share of money that moves into venture capital is ends up. Being University Endowments Foundations folks that are Super Longterm impatient and aren't going to force BBC's to make this terrible decisions like this yeah another you can sort of check me on this. David it but my understanding is sequoia more so than your average venture firm all holds the stock in companies longer after they go public and and often sticks with the companies for very long time I think probably also inspired by this lesson this and and others that we're going to that we're. GonNa talk about here. in Short Order Order you know we're going to talk about the playbook in a little bit but one of the key lessons that they learned is like when things are going well go along you know like value creation creation in these companies that are building and creating enormous markets takes a long long long time. I mean just look at you know AIRBNB. Look look at Google. Look at it. Look at Apple. You can still be getting enormous. Enormous value creation a decade plus after these companies are founded regardless of whether they're private a bitter public yep so it's fascinating to think about you know the first couple of investments. I two out of a handful of investments being apple and Atari in total you returned a profit of about ten million dollars or a Max of ten million dollars is wild to think that that is the sum total of of of sequoias return on those two companies. I know I know but at the time I mean like even you know pulling it into context today lake if we within the two to three years of starting wave if we could be sitting onto X. cash distributed like I would feel great about that you know but the lesson here is like that's not the game where the business business were in or the game. We're playing the game. We're playing is like ten x plus cash distributed and to do that. You really need to be in it for the long haul especially when you're investing early yeah the other thing to know here and David as you as you foreshadow and you've been smiling a little bit we will get into this much more later this season but with Atari sorry the Atari boom that we all sort of know of in the eighties was after it had sold to Warner and so you know it's quite an even have an option in participating participating in that upside unless they were going to block the sale yeah yeah totally and that also leads to another part of this quad playbook which is like when things are going well really tryin. Brian convinced these companies to stay independent and not sell. I mean look at instagram rate. Selling instagram to facebook was a it was a terrible terrible mistake by the founders and the investors even though you know it netted them great returns at the moment and was interesting. Sequeira ended up investing right before before that deal happen that is a debatable topic but we can. You think that's debate. I think if it had gone a lot longer than facebook would have had to pay a lot more more like in the dozens of billions of dollars to acquire purely because there is a very very high user count social network that is a threat to them however do I think that instagram would develop the business that they have today that is billions of dollars of revenue flowing through them by advertisers. Maybe but that's not a sure thing thing I mean that's all because facebook had had done funneling all their existing advertiser there. I think that's true and certainly the helped accelerate it grow it more quickly me but at a minimum instagram should've waited you no longer in an had what's ask acquisition their bare minimum you ah it's so hard to it's easy to armchair quarterback this now and aren't to be sitting in the seat of Kevin Mike when they have a billion dollar offer in front of them uh but this is the value I mean sequoias learn these lessons over so many decades and seeing it time and time again so the other lesson that they take from apple is what Donald Square call an an aircraft carrier approach that they start taking to these big markets they realized on realizes that apple has created this pc market and it's not just going. GonNa be Apple. That's going to succeed in the PC market. They're going to usher in all of these other enabling companies that you need around the PC so like apple is the the aircraft carrier but you need all the destroyers and the you know the ship surrounded and like all the planes on the ships and all that stuff so they start financing component companies companies around the PC industry apple and Don helped start a company called Tandon Corporation. That makes describes they are. I investors in ten and Tannin goes public public after a couple of years really market cap of over one and a half billion dollars. This is in the early eighties company called print tonics that makes printers a company called PRIEM that makes disk disc drives company called Dyson that makes magnetic discs for the disk drives all told I believe sequoia ends up making about fifteen investments kind of in this aircraft-carrier strategy around apple and it drives much of their returns in these early funds some other notable investments that they make during the seventies and eighties in one thousand nine hundred one they invest in a company called LSI logic which makes it again around pc and computing storage networking products in nineteen in eighty three so just two years later. LSI Goes Public in the largest IPO on the Nasdaq history at that point raising one hundred fifty three million dollars in the IPO one hundred fifty three million dollars. That's like a solid. Softbank is around today. This is two years after sequoia invested in the company. Yeah inflation adjusted. That's in the sort of five hundred to a billion range hold on the way to think about how much they raised totally nine hundred eighty two as we chronicled old they invested in trip and electronic arts or amazing software in the beginning they also invest in three com in nineteen eighty two folks might remember three. COM which was made networking gear and eventually bought palm and the palm pilot three didn't realize came directly out of Xerox Parc so that's the other thing that sequoia kind of on the back of apple starts doing is they start reading Xerox Park and IBM's West Coast Division and all of these old school east coast companies that had been training these these technologists in developing advanced technology and they just commercializing them left right and center ninety-three they invest in Oracle and also Cypress I for semiconductor both of which become massive successes and then in nineteen eighty one one point. I WANNA make on Oracle before breezy because we of course we need to do an AH episode on Oracle Larry at some point but there's a crazy thing here that oracle went six years before raising money from from sequoia and I think they had bootstrap off of two thousand dollars and if you think about it like Oracle is really one of the first true software companies they were wildly capitol efficient fishing and Larry was very outspoken against you know pushing back against this rising venture capital industry and speaking all kinds of ill tongues of of the venture capitalist fearless and what they do and come in and try and control companies Ray than all these things and of course partnering with Sequoia Six years in but a very different start than a lot of these other companies. He's which required much more capital to get going yeah and the reason I didn't want to dive deep into it is that I might be speaking a bit out of school not having done the deep dive on Oracle and their history but to jump in and speculate a little bit. I think part of the museum that's it. I'm GONNA speculate wildly. I think part of the reason why Larry was so anti was was anti software anti-israeli. This was like didn't understand. Dan didn't understand software. You use a semiconductor guy all of these companies. We're talking about with the exception option of EA our hardware applications companies and so. I don't think Oracle could raise venture capital when they got started. They were the first real surreal software company. It's the highest gross margin of them. All you know I know fits that thesis so well but it wasn't you know the the venture world had woken up to that just yet they would they would go with to of course but but so much of the DNA comes from this hardware world the last kinda greet and it's certainly the greatest hardware investment that they make is in one thousand nine hundred seven. Don Invest two and a half million dollars in a little company called Cisco for thirty percent of the company started on the campus actually at the DSP at at Stanford started on the campus of Stanford Sandy and land where AH I can't remember which one of them was the it administrator for GSP one. I think was elsewhere on on the campus and networking was just becoming a thing and they were married. They're sending messages to one another and this is this amazing romantic story that they had had jerry rig the network to be able to send messages to each other and he's runs into Cisco and that turns into Cisco. I mean it just goes to show you these companies start and don having learned the lesson from apple of like you know hey will finance gingas. Kahn he he doesn't care like most would look at this team and be like we're not gonNA finance this team but he cares about the market and the application at the time there were no routers so networks like local networking it was just becoming a thing but networking networks was impossible and so- sandy and len developed the first router and to steal central square still uses this example well today of like the very very best most elegant expression simple expression of what company does it's three words for. CISCO WE WE NETWORK NETWORKS THAT turns out to be not just an enormous enormous market but really the enabling technology eighty four the Internet Cisco stock was the tracker for the Internet hype in the in the DOT COM era. I mean it was like if you wanted something that was emblematic of people's Apple's excitement about this new technology it was Cisco and so now we're in nineteen eighty seven where twelve years after the independent constitution of sequoia capital capital Donnas learned all these lessons. He's not letting this go so not only does he fully finance the company upfront with two and a half million dollars gets thirty percent of the company the company that goes public shortly thereafter I believe there is hundred sixty some odd million in the IPO downstairs on the board. Don doesn't distribute the shares. He remains chairman of the board. I think until the mid nineties and they ride Cisco up and make enormous enormous returns on this company and that is that really becomes the playbook for for quake apple going forward amazing run also just such a great example of like Sandy. Len were thinking about the Internet. Nobody was thinking about the Internet when they I started Cisco but things just kept the market kept evolving and kept getting bigger and expanding and don again being so focused on the market. They knew that like even though this company was public there were still enormous returns to be had because the market was nowhere near penetrated so alongside ride all these investments that they're making the funds kind of steadily grow in size from that first of three to five million it stabilizes at around one hundred and fifty million per fund in the nineteen ninety s that sequoias raising every three years or so and and having that be their investment period along the way of course to do that. You have to not only build these these companies but you have to build sequoia. You have to build the firm you can't do you can invest in all these companies and give them the time and attention that you need to do early. Stage Company Company building alone so Dan starts adding partners to sequoia and he talks about the process of doing this again. Remember back when they start lake the the number one requirement for being an investor quote unquote was going to Harvard Business School. not Fairchild semi-conductor business school to be clear investor in this sense was generally a public market investor or perhaps some other alternative investment but not investing in startups. I mean the Solomon Brothers folks probably looked at this more like gambling. Like what you're doing is an investing year not a person that looks like an investor. So what are we even talking about here. Irony of it all is. It's the exact opposite of gambling. It's building. BSO Sultanas as Greg Cody says adding new talent was and remains a continuous process. Conventional Conventional Education was never a high priority. You know plenty of folks have gone to Harvard Business School. You know who worked at an and work at sequoia but that's not what they look for. We look for people with functional experience in a startup I design and application engineering product marketing sales aspects of outsourcing manufacturing our investment decision making process requires very self confident people able to be challenged publicly. I look for people that are as far different as possible old than I am because we do things here on the basis of consent among the partners and I don't like having a modernized set of opinions. Don Wants people to be he says I want as much confrontation tation in different thinking as possible and he wants people that are going to be confident and comfortable enough to put their thoughts out there and debate as part of the group. One of these lessons that Don's learned is that sometimes times the most amazing companies like Apple Cisco. They look crazy and so you need somebody that's willing to see the potential behind the craziness and stand adopt them oftentimes. That's not folks who are coming from Harvard Business School. I believe the first partner ironically that joins town it's does come from the investing world in Nineteen Seventy Nine Gordon Russell joins Johnston he had worked with Don at Catholic so he comes from capital group comes in and joins sequoia and he builds sequoias healthcare and biotech investing practice so kind of in parallel even from the seventies beckons quiet. They're not only investing investing in technology and hardware semiconductors. They're also investing in healthcare biotech but of course it's it's technology that the firm finds it's it's true success in and and in nineteen eighty one we mentioned peer lemonde earlier. Dan Convinces peer already had an amazing storied career as a chip designer and architect at Fairchild and national to come in and join him at sequoia as a partner and Pierre has an amazing run. He stays as an active investing partner. It's Koya for almost thirty years and then this is incredible he moves to Khosla ventures and joins Vinod over Rick Khosla in the mid two thousand and then he goes and he joins formation and he's now after formation clips. He is still an active general partner making and leading investments today. He just turned eighty nine years old. This is incredible. He was born. I believe in nineteen thirty in France he he is a true true legend in the industry but that's the kind of folks that Don is looking for is people who are literally going to die in the seat because their their lifeblood is building technology companies and peer absolutely fits that to a T. so then in the late eighty s two very very important people joined sequoia from interesting backgrounds so in one thousand nine hundred eighty six a gentleman that you gentlemen by the name of Michael Moritz now Sir Michael Moritz who was from the UK and had come over to America and had become quite famous journalist for Time magazine. I believe he he wrote book on Apple while he was still a time right the little kingdom I think it was called sounds right and that's how he gets really interested in Silicon Valley and technology and sort of people behind apple and venture capital he leaves time and he starts at VC newsletter letter with the goal of he wants to break into the venture capital industry. I remember is new again. You know other than this newsletter companies never built a company worked technology at his life but remember Don's Licken for these mavericks and he has a soft spot for people. They kind of do things their own way. Don Decides to take a chance on Mike and invite him into sequoia and to join the Partnership and tab that ends up being just incredibly incredibly prescient decision that leads the two Yahu and Google and other companies count as how to hack your way into as the first example of starvation Jason Yeah that actually probably will work today. I think there's a quote about Moricz which is he had. The journalist instinct linked to go for the jugular and not hold back and a friend said that about him David. We've started a podcast and have a love for media but I have this sort of reverence for for really good journalists who not only are able to to really tell a great story but sort of get the truth out there. It's a special talent for someone to be able to cover IT industry street and yet have their respect in this way you know we talked about the socratic method of questioning the Dan hold so dear and I think this is what he saw and Mike like and we'll save a lot of this for part two of our sequoia journey here too but but that's what Mike was so great at as a journalist and don on actually says he says the two people that he's met in his life who are the best questioners are Mike and Steve Jobs High Company the other. You're very important. person who joined sequoia capital in the late eighties is a relatively young brash sales guy comes from Hewlett Packard and son that also is an Italian immigrant decides that he wants to work in venture capital is called up one day cold calls them and says hey I want to join sequoia and if you know anything about the person that we're talking about this is exactly in character and this gentleman is Doug. Leoni who today of course is runs all of sequoia in all their operations globally and I I believe we'll be the person that ultimately advocated for and took sequoia into becoming a global double firm. We're GONNA talk much more about both Mike and dig next time on part but just to wrap up part one to get his really the story of Don and yeah I mean you can't extricate Don Donald from sequoia but from venture capital and the whole industry in total in Nineteen ninety-six after it had become clear earlier that that Mike and Doug were amazing investors and not only amazing investors but had internalized all of these things that it meant to be sequoia foyer and then built on them themselves. Donde something pretty amazing he literally hands the keys of Sequoia over to Mike and Doug Doug talks about this in an interview with with Dan primarily axios. That's I don't have the exact quote here but he says don one day in Nineteen ninety-six. Wchs invited Mike and Doug into a conference room. He sat them down and he said I'm giving this firm to you and there are three things one. You're going to run the firm. I'm not going to run the firm anymore to you. Get to decide what I do. You can keep me around. I can continue making investments or I cannot. It's completely up to you and then and three if you do want me around here's the things willing to not willing to do but one of the things I'm not willing to do as run the firm so like you guys make all the decisions about what's going to happen from now on and that's dislike even today that so rare I mean this is the first very successful what not the first in the industry but the first successful generational transfer its Koya most venture firms and most founders venture firms. Don't have the ability to do this. and it's so hard. I mean don created all of this and he's willing to say you guys as of the future changes part of not only what we invested in but part of the venture industry to and like you guys are the people that are going to lead the change. It takes a lot to do something like that. It reminds me a lot of another great venture firm that we may also cover benchmark who has a very different way of doing this very different. Yes but you know equal partnership. There's a greet sort of interview with Andy Rackliff and Patrick o'shaughnessy on invest like the best where Andy talks about how at the peak peaking power the original partners handed us the keys and I think it's a while done very differently there. There's there's definitely common elements between both of these these great firms yet. If you look at the firms that have managed to survive generation after generation wave after wave of you know the technology industry and and venture capitals evolution all excited. It's the firms that do this well the firms that don't don't make the transition and Donna's agreed when sequoia was started the positioning fishing was to LP's was we're going to deliver vastly superior returns to anything else. You can get out there and that proved well. We'll talk about it in grading but I think that pre true true but the positioning of sequoia is now two things and he says this. It's this stability that comes with generational transfers. The stability is part of why we have had had the same limited partners for almost forty years went down saying this now almost fifty years stability and returns is how sequoias positioned for the type of LP's that they're trying to attract witter patient very very long term capital. You actually need both of those. Things returns isn't enough. You need the stability that accompanies those returns so that people will have have confidence that like hey you can get great returns but if the firm blows up then you're you're useless to me. Do we want to go into what would have happened otherwise yeah. Let's do it all right to listener is the way that we WANNA do this. Section on this unique episode is what would the world be without sequoia and there is a very sequoia centric view of the world which is all of the technology industry looks very different and without building this sort of aircraft carrier strategy around Apple and financing all of that in a very scarce capital environment like there was then we we may not have you know the apple that we have today. We may not have some of the other tech giants that we have today day. There is a alternative you that you could take to that that says look capital is capital and the the the ninety nine percent of the value or maybe maybe one hundred and ten percent percent of the value that comes from receiving investment from venture capital firm is the capital itself and everything else is either. Hullabaloo or valued attraction and capital will always expand spend fill all attractive opportunities exactly exactly that we despite some friction points we live in an efficient market and if it's truly a great opportunity than capital will flow tube up to go and fund that thing and so the world would look no different today if a if there was no sequeira. I think I fall slightly toward the former part of that scale that I'm not willing to say that we you know we wouldn't have some of these amazing technology innovations without sequoia but I do think in just pouring poring over the hours and hours of reading that you know that we found about don and really learning about the history of this firm. Don played a very active role in in building building a lot of the companies that they invested in and deserves credit for that well listeners. Let us know how you like this type of episode focusing on venture firms we of course I love it as as venture ourselves but we've been talking all about sequoia in this episode there is really along the exact same time line there is a perfect example of what would have happened otherwise and that is Clayton Perkins which over this time frame that we're talking about was equally if not arguably Ghibli more successful than sequoia but what's really interesting and we'll dive into when we ultimately do an episode on on Kleiner. Their philosophy was quite different aren't and was a lot more interested in the entrepreneurs and the backgrounds of the entrepreneurs then necessarily downs Koyo were so I think to my mind would have happened otherwise of course silicon valley what happened of course the modern technology modern venture capital industry in startup industry would have happened even even though don helped catalyze all of it somebody would have and certainly Kleiner would've did kind of did but I don't think there would would have been as many chances taken opportunities given to you know the quote unquote not men's out there that sequoia was willing to fund and you know it wasn't in just in those days. I mean look at Airbnb in their early days and sequoias extremely prescient early investment investment in you know the three airbnb founders they then look lake what you know a prototypical founder looks like at the time far fire from it you know I think it's sequoia and Don's. DNA coming from a true incredible marketing background and Markets Focus that you know maybe wouldn't have developed helped in the same way without sequoia yeah and one way to look at this as like if you're the Kleiner Perkins in nineteen seventy eight. You know you are backing backing founders and outsourcing a lot of your judgment to them and you're just saying you run. Obviously they weren't hands off but you run the company and the reason I'm investing in you is because I trust you to you know figure out how to run this company and what Don was looking at as you're really onto something in this killer market. Were going to go build this thing together and I'm going to help. I hope you do that and the the the downside of that we haven't painted yet if you're a founder that believes that you need to be the CEO of that thing forever and market that deserves a team to to really go and value maximize the the the way to tackle that opportunity like the terms of these investments especially at at this time were that often confirms would own thirty three fifty one percent of the company they would have the right to buy the rest from you they would have the right to replace you all these rights of course much of this still exist exists today the job of a board is to hire and fire the CEO but it was much more prevalent back then especially within. Don's view of the world is that I'm building in this company with you right now and like this company may outlast year leadership while the unspoken words in Duns. You know quote the recent earlier about management can be ignited is management of course can also be replaced now. There's upsides and downsides that right like if you're focused on if your focus is building a great company sometimes that's the right thing to do and you know sometimes of course. Donskoy get that wrong but sometimes it is the raping to thinking back to our conversation with trip and what attracted trip and a to Don was this knowledge that you were getting in what you saw with Don and he was going to force you to build a big company one way or the other you know with you or without you all right we are in tech themes now but to officially call it that and and and move through it here the thing that really jumped out at me and of course you know being in this industry knowing folks funded by Sequoia knowing folks at Sequoia you know some of this tangentially but it's worth taking a fresh look when preparing for these episodes to really ground yourself coffin in what assumptions on my making the thing that jumped out at me was sequoia and all of their copywriting at never says investment but rather partnership. It's not we led an investment. You know it's not it's it's we decided to partner with that company and they have a statement on their website called their ethos which says says we're serious about our work and carefully choose the words to describe it terms like deal or exit are forbidden and while we're sometimes called investors that is not our frame of mind we consider ourselves partners for the long term it immediately jumps out at me as David you so often say company builders. You know we are partners. The way that we do that is we've got this huge fund that we manage that of course we have a fiduciary responsibility to our LP's to maximize the value. The way that we decide to partner owner is through investing in you but you know we are your partners in this business five six seven years ago. I always thought that was when I heard we were so excited to partner with this venture firm. I'm on this thing. I was like. Oh God here it comes invested money and you just say it. I finally am seeing I think what firms like Sequoia Eh. You can't really say firms like so quick because there's no firms but what's sequoia means when they say partnership rather than investment is a very different frame of mind. It's not I'm looking being for opportunities to get a multiple my cash. This looks pretty good so I'm going to throw it in and hope that I get a multiple out of it. It's for some reason I believe that this is going to be a society diety defining company in the next coming decades and I'd like to be a part of that with you or it gets back to. I think I've talked about on the show before but when we were starting wait if one of the first people we talked to was Greg mcadoo who is a longtime partner. It's quiet and lead their investment and initial investment in in AIRBNB and and was on the board for many years and was a big part of the reason why my partner Riley joined AIRBNB and he said to us. Somebody will always stick with me. He said that doing venture extremely well. At the highest levels early stage venture. It's all about alignment and I think this is what you know through this history. We've told how Oh don and sequoia came to understand this alignment meant the alignment is around building long term big Greek companies and so if your the focus is that you need. LP's unlike the original said LP's he wanted a tax distribution force them to sell their stake apple need LP's who are willing to sign up for an essentially infinite infinite not incident but decades multiple decades long time horizon because when there's true opportunity the mass the the lion share of the value. Oh you gets built at the end you know think about the run that Amazons had or even apple's had in the last ten years in their market cap relatives of the first ten to twenty years of the company so that's the L. P. Aspect but then to this company building aspect lake. If you truly aligned around that you're optimizing for those outcomes which means you aren't just like sitting on the side and letting things like play out. You're helping make the decisions and build the company and build a culture that is going to enable a super long term a great company to be built like that and I think that really is their ethos now. That's that's not the only way to do investing winging. Will we've talked about and we'll talk about many more on this show but it's a really really unique one that I think has been cold doing this episode. See like exactly how this was developed upped all right. My second second tech theme is that it's called. Sequoia Not Valentine capital or Valentine and Co and on Valentine's winter exactly the way that sequoia thinks about themselves is that sequoia exists behind signed founder's. It's not about sequoia. It's about the founders or you know. It's it's it's more importantly about the companies and not the founder right. It's an and even more so it's not about the person but it's about sequoia so even when you pop up that one level it's not hi. I'm Don and you know I'm extremely public. Quicken loud and writing op eds all the time and doing all this. If you WANNA talk about the Investment Company let's talk about the Investment Company and that sequoia and I happen to be a part of that but you know it's it's not all about me all the time and it's interesting you talk to people and you say do you think sequoias low ego and people people would say no absolutely not like that is not the not the way that I would use to describe them but I think you talk to folks at Sequoia. You talk about companies that have been funded by sequoia and they do take that very very seriously where one of the best firms in the world but it's at this level. It's about the firm not the not the partners well. I think it all comes back to this super long term orientation lake. Does Sequeira have ego around that of course they do go look at their website like you know but it's all about long term. It's not about like look at this deal we just did it's about like look at this company that was built over decades that we were part of and look at all of these companies companies and look at sequoia itself which we're GonNa get into much more in in our next part of this of this series here so I tried to for the section Kenna Catalogue and crystallized what are the elements of if you had to distill the sequoia playbook from this history and from from Don's experience I think these are the these are the points that I would put in one first and foremost of course is focused on the market but the size of the market and whether the dynamics of the market it will lead to rapid adoption by a new entrant second is that change equals opportunity this also didn't make it as much into the history and facts but Donna's this Greek Greek quote about this so he says one of our theories is to seek out opportunities where there's major change going on a major dislocation in the way. Things are done wherever there's turmoil. There's indecision and wherever there's indecision there's opportunity when it becomes obvious to anyone who reads. Time magazine that it's useful to have drive on a computer than it's already too late in the cycle to invest in district so we look for the confusing fees win. The big companies are confused when the other venture groups are confused. That's the time to start companies. The opportunities are there. If if you're early and you've got ideas dislike us such a perfect way to frame it so hard to do in practice but a really perfect way to frame it next I think is when you find one of those opportunities. Don't get caught up in overly focusing on the team like of course you want the team to be great but like if the team doesn't look like traditional team that you had picked from central casting do this sleek. Don't worry about it. You better to pursue the opportunity and you can augment the team if they're receptive to working with you on it back to the next piece which is a company builder not an investor to really do this. At the early stages you gotta dedicate the time and effort you have to have a partnership with people made up of people who have actually built these companies whether that's in their career as investors or their careers operators but people who really know what they're doing and can help the companies make good decisions and recruit great management teams around them related to that you can only do that at the early stages like sequoia now of course and we'll talk about this much more invested all stages of a company's life cycle but this type of company building investing there. We're talking about you can really only do it at the outset once once the DNA has said and it's interesting I think sequoia it used to have one of these quotes on their website and their ethos section. I don't think it's there anymore. They believed that. DNA Company is set within the first ninety days of operation and after that it's really really really hard to change it and having lived through that and now you can the whole focus on my investing at that stage the market and Youtube and like I completely really agree with that just reflecting on how crazy it is that this asset class exists we all take for granted that there's early stage age fundraising that like in mass a couple million dollars are gonNA get deployed into ideas hundreds if not thousands of times per year and that there's a whole asset class of investors that are willing to do that and now it makes sense because we've I've seen this show the handful of those become so so valuable that you index the whole asset class and like sometimes it overperform sometimes at underperforms performs but like it it sort of tracks other asset classes in terms of risk adjusted return. It's a pretty special thing that it exists and this is this is probably an ethnocentric statement but that it exists in our country like if you think about the impact that it has had on GDP the access to early stage capital from a large group of people who it's their business to take a flyer and their business to underwrite a tremendous amount of risk by you you know having a twenty plus company portfolio. I think it's a really good thing that that this system got created and that this type of capital capital is is available today and surely it is not deployed in the best way that it could or certainly the most fair way that it could but the fact that it exists at all is his intensely value creative and we take it for granted that exist today and it's it kind of mind boggling how difficult it would have been to convince people people at this point in history that gay should plow money into it. I mean gas remember the Solomon Brothers meeting that we had you know one of the reasons. I was so excited to to do this. Episode is we deeply believe wave something and I think sequoia also believes in this history shows. which is you mentioned this asset class exists now and you know you can have an index on it and it works because like a few companies out of these many many seeds of small companies will get built into giant? Ansah coil like trees. That's true but I think there's a there's a a faulty logic conclusion. You can draw from that which is that we should have an index fund on this because what this this history illustrates is that that defeats the whole cycle like the reason that you know sequoia size trees get grown from seeds is is because of careful watering and feeding them from people who are experienced gardeners who really know what they're doing. You know I really want you to change your twitter. Bio Tubes takes card. I love it experienced keepers. Let's put it that way. You know that's part of you know a change that we and I think you guys to like like hope to be in the early stage. Ecosystem now is getting away from this lake watering a million seeds and into lake tending garden. Yeah Yeah I mean we thought long and hard about that with with PSL when we were first getting started and I think should we be doing sort of more companies. Should we'd be doing this in like an accelerator style way and Elliot I mean we talked about the studio model and the L. P. Show but I it's very different and it's it's much more concentrated bets and I think sequoia is a great example of especially in the era that we're talking about it of incredibly concentrated bets and a lot of work into them after the investment okay so my last two for this quiet playbook. Are you know one. Let your winners run everything. We've been talking about like if you if you've got something that's growing into a sequoia size tree lake. The most of the growth is going to become after decades plus into the company. Let your investment in them run and then the last one which is Dan did we ended history and facts on which is hand over the keys before you fall asleep at the wheel you know if you're running a venture firm so so much easier said than done to move on to value creation value capture yeah. Let's see what's the best way to do this one. Well one thing we talked about. Is We don't have have the exact data on the returns of sequoias early funds we have a general sense from a few sources that we can talk about but compare that to into how the Nasdaq performed over a similar point in time which is kind of the closest you could come to like approximating this type of investment as a AH investor at this point in time yeah and I guess what we're doing here is we're sort of rolling together value-creation value capture and grading to touch on what we do in the section with value creation. Chretien valley captured normally when we're covering a company we say you know. Hey CHIAPPA. Fi- enabled two hundred and fifty billion dollars of sales or something like that. I can't remember the number last year. How how how effective were they had actually capturing that value that they've sort of created I would say sequoia has been surgically surgically good at capturing value that they that they create in the world with I think few Mrs. I don't think John had any trouble capturing the value. He created in the world. Well I would say yes yes. Sir Certainly no one's today no but I think it took many years to learn you know how to do that right even don coming from the background and the personal investing did I mean you know the Apple. Decision was such a huge mistake. You know sequoia captured six million dollars of value. Are you from apple and lost out on dozens to hundreds of billions like so yes. I think they mistakes. If you mistake uh-huh one very costly one yeah. I think that's fair. The Real Testament here would be to ask the entrepreneurs that that sequoia worked it with delayed. Do they feel the what the successful ones that the value that's the Koya and they're limited partners captured from the value that was created at those companies today as entrepreneurs feel that it was worth what they got in return acquired. FM AT DOT com well. I think think we didn't ask trip that directly in the episode but I think he probably would have said yes right. Oh Yeah Yeah that was my that was definitely the sentiment I got from him. Good Point we were mixing greeting and and value captioned value creation so we move on yeah so I mean grading the way that we traditionally really do it for folks that are new to the show is big company. Buys Little Company and we have history as our guide. was that a good use of capital by big company to buy little company. Dave and I were talking before for the show on how to think about grading for this episode and I guess W- The way we sort of landed on it as opportunity cost for LP capital so what but you know if you had just put money into the Nasdaq to try and do some technology investing from nine hundred seventy five onwards sort of how how would that have looked interesting to know the Nasdaq between nineteen seventy five conveniently when it was created in nineteen ninety grew about six point five x Witha uh-huh a couple of hiccups in the middle where it lost thirty percent of its value and then took a long time to to creep back up so a stock market like any other and so that's sort of the basis this that that we decided to compare it to David. How do you think sequoia sort of stacks up against you know that that public market accessibility it's hard to compare exactly because we don't know the returns for any given fund let alone all the dollars in aggregate but I believe it based on some quotes from from Don Don in in some of our research and other data we have the sequoia was probably averaging fifty to sixty percent. IRR on their funds during this period so if I actually haven't done the math of what that would be over fifteen years but it's well well well above six point five x and so now if you assume sequoias taking as carried interest trysts probably in the early days twenty I believe now there at thirty percent carried interest that they take on their funds so taking that out of their returns. I still believe that ear performing well. I believe you're performing much much better than that and there's a great quote. There's a Forbes Profile that they did on Sequoia in twenty fourteen an and there's a great quote in there from the the CIO at Notre Dame which is a great l. p. One of the most sophisticated endowments out there and they say that sequoia is the single best performing manager that they have had in their entire portfolio for the last thirty thirty plus years and that is across all asset classes which is pretty incredible. Wow Okay so. How do we assign a letter grade. Well I mean clearly. It's an a lake I think the question is like. Is this an a plus. I think it has to be a plus right right like if we're looking at a a whole bunch of funds bundled together is like too difficult to like assign a single letter grade to you know. I think like we were we looking at one that had it was of significant size and had the highest. Irr of all time than we could go. That's an a plus but like it feels reasonable for me to say that like the first fifteen years of sequoias existence were a relative to other venture for. I mean yeah the reason I make a case for for an a plus is two fold one. How much done really was a part of inventing so many thinks about the way the whole not venture capital but startup ecosystem works today and to is is that quote from from Dame. Now you know maybe there are other great managers that Notre Dame has is not invested in but but man to be the single best performing manager over thirty plus years in Marquee Endowments Portfolio Lake. It's hard not too hard not to assign that all right. I'll go with you all right well with that. This has been a blast for US audience. Hopefully you guys have enjoyed it too. Certainly hit us up in the slack or acquired. FM Et mail dot com if you have stories to share thought Sir others you WanNa see us dig into especially on our continuing saga of telling the story of sequoia from Doug and Mike well they're generation when they were coming up then taking over and taking sequoia into the now twelve billion plus dollar global growth behemoth that it is today. Yep would love your feedback back. All right carve outs carve outs. Let's do it Yup. Mine is episode of the daily the podcast by the New York Times from a few weeks ago called what American CEO's are worried about. They report on an event that happened last month. Where nearly two hundred executives you've got together at something called the Business Roundtable which I didn't know it was a thing it's not governing body of any sort but it's like a two hundred of the Fortune One thousand. CEO's that get together and make proclamations and one such proclamation that they made this year was that they they are going to not just think about their stakeholders they're they're. They're only stakeholder as their shareholders but also their employees -ployees their customers their community a broader set of stakeholders and in my head the the thing that first occurred to me was well that feels like illegal in some way if feels like the purpose of corporation is to maximize shareholder value and I've just have taken that at face value comey capitalists but like that that is my understanding of I it's a relatively recent phenomenon yeah and I didn't realize and like it got me thinking because I've always thought like will you should do all these other things you know that's bending bending the rules of the company to potentially sacrifice shareholder value to go and and you know do things that you don't think long-term will accrue to shareholder value so obviously like you should be active in your community and you should take care of your employees but I always thought with this lens of like. Oh companies do that because it's going to accrue to shareholder value Oh you at some point and it's fascinating to the number one listen this proclamation and then they dive deep into exactly David. You were talking about the fact that it's it's a relatively the new phenomenon one that sort of grew up in the seventies and eighties in these sort of professionalism of Wall Street companies changing their bylaws to basically say say we exist to be publicly traded security and then we are at the mercy of that. It's this interesting if we actually drifted direction that they brought up it's much more return to sort of the the business as a pillar of the community from the early nineteen hundreds and I'll be very curious to see if this sort of comes of anything and if this stirs more more sort of sentiment yeah yes super interesting well definitely reflective of the times we live in in terms of corporations and the world at large I hope things go where in that direction. It's interesting to see. We have one of our portfolio companies. Unease is be corporation. Do you guys have any corporal awesome. We don't yet but we're super. Yeah supers Yeah Yeah. It's been really cool to see that emerge as away to institutionally some of the governance rules around this idea we invest in B corporations as in secret operations but no preference for necessarily for one or the other but we're we in many other. VC firms are super open to it and sport of okay. My curve out as listeners may know for some reason that I even I don't understand I use Amazon Music instead of apple music. I'm actually definitely GONNA. Did it. Change that 'cause Hamza. Anything's music is not one of them but one thing that popped up on the homepage famous music last week which maybe it's worth the whole thing is I had no idea last week was the twenty five year anniversary of notorious B. I album ready to die. select speaking of Mafia dons on this episode pen Biggie so good and and so Amazon did this cool thing where they have but two tracks from the album and then in between each track they have like a commentary from journalists and people that were there producers Puffy. You know everybody part of making making biggies first album just listening to it all again this man. I like it's so good like maybe some of that content and language haven't aged too well but but like he was so good like I've never heard anybody that can rhyme like big and just the music and the tracks and like what did he did producing lake it was it really cool to rediscover and and be listening to that over the past week. David I love the incredibly ECLECTIC collection of carve outs that you have. It's this like you know crazy place in France. It's this really hard to get through it. You know thousand page book that like I will never have a prayer of actually and then this really takes me back to when I was really into Biggie well while the secret is I. I keep the little note my apple notes of anytime strikes me. I just put it in there as a potential future car belt so no that's awesome the idea all right listeners. Thank thank you so much thanks to our sponsor. Silicon Valley Bank thanks to all the great sources that you can find in the show notes for helping US research and put together this episode and if you would like to either join the slack you can do that acquire data. FM or become a prestigious acquired limited partner you you can do that at glow dot FM slash acquired and it comes with a seven day free trial one quick note on the slack We've got a couple questions about this recently. the slack is awesome. You absolutely should join if you're not part of it yet the way to do it is go to our website acquired dot. FM and then on the home page age there's a little button on the left hand side of the homepage right below the main image quick that and you'll get an invitation to sign up and join us like our listeners see next time next time sir.

Don Don Sherman Fairchild fairchild sequoia Capital Group don Don Valentine Fairchild semi-conductor Silicon Valley California CEO New York Intel David Apple Shockley Semiconductor Laborat Bill Shockley
Rare California Condors Seen In Sequoia National Park

Environment: NPR

02:21 min | 5 months ago

Rare California Condors Seen In Sequoia National Park

"The big news out of Sequoia National Park condors are back. This is also just stunning to me. John Nielsen is author of Condor to the brink and back the life and times of one giant bird. The condor is the largest living flying thing in America and it sounds like this. That recording courtesy of Cornell University's lab of ornithology and the news some have been spotted in California's Sequoia National Park for the first time in fifty years is welcome. Because condors were so close to extinction, there was a time when there were none in the wild. They were all in captive breeding programs ensues. The National Park Service broke the news about the birds. We appearance yesterday saying they were seen back in. In May the park waited a couple of months to tell us to confirm the sighting when their numbers drop to just twenty two, the wild birds were rounded up at first they didn't breed, but eventually they did and were released back into the wild. If you haven't seen a condor and you've only heard it described, or you've only seen it in the zoo. One of the first impressions Really Ugly Bird. Meet it eats dad things. Out Pees on the walls of the caves at lives in stuff like that, but when it flies, it's unbelievable and John Nelson says there is nothing like a sighting in the wild win kind of roars through their. Feathers because they don't sneak up on stuff aid stuff when it's dead, this condor flew down to the base of the cliff that I was standing at the top, and caught the wind currents and flew straight up right past me like ten feet away, this gigantic bird, nine and f foot wingspan, and it was. Like? Well John Nielsen says the news of Condor. Citing is great, he warns the preservation effort does not end still have huge challenges ahead. The biggest one is probably lead shot in their environment. That's because when hunter shoot animals and leave the bodies behind condors eat the animals and the ammunition which can be fatal to the condor, so keep a lookout for the three hundred plus wild condors thought to be at large in California and nearby states.

Sequoia National Park John Nielsen National Park Service California John Nelson Cornell University America hunter fifty years ten feet
The New School returns next Monday!

The New School with Christine Hong

01:18 min | 7 months ago

The New School returns next Monday!

"Hey guys it's Christine and we're coming back on. Monday may fourth the next season of the new school. That's right we're back and better than ever. Here's A. P. Con upcoming. Guess we have a Emmy Award? Winning foreign workers respondent. I'm going to be a war correspondent to cover war but the only way that cover wars to make the decision to actively step outside his wires and follow him and be with them every morning. I have to decide. Am I going to do that too? Is that worth dying? We got the former CMO of sequoia capital one of the top venture capital firms. I advise people say. Will you regret not trying this next job? If you work hard and have done a good job you can typically go back to your job or employer. You can always go backwards that the only way to go forward is to leave. We got the culinary director designed the entire food menu for the chain Gen Z. Kitchen I remember going back to bed and so may or may not have offered a job. I'm not really sure in three months later. The first restaurant is open and I'm cooking there. Oh Yeah it's going to be a good season. This season will be releasing a new episode every Monday so hit that. Subscribe to stay tuned.

sequoia capital Emmy Award Christine director three months
20VC: Sequoia's Ravi Gupta on His Lessons From The Hyper-Growth of Instacart, The Key Question To Ask When Building or Evaluating Teams & The Importance of Investing In and Detecting Slopes Rather Than Intercepts

The Twenty Minute VC

41:20 min | 2 months ago

20VC: Sequoia's Ravi Gupta on His Lessons From The Hyper-Growth of Instacart, The Key Question To Ask When Building or Evaluating Teams & The Importance of Investing In and Detecting Slopes Rather Than Intercepts

"This is the twenty minute. Visa Harry stubbings state. We have a very special one for me. It really exemplifies why I love what I do so much with the show I'm madness guess maybe six months ago we spent a lot of time chatting becoming friends and really is such a joy stu this with him today someone who respects in March much as I do therefore without doing enough of the soapy stuff I'm thrilled to welcome Ravi Gupta Partners Sequoia capital. One of the world's leading venture firms, the portfolio including Abbey, and be Stripe Ui Paul, Zoom, the list really does go on for Raby Product Way. He spent four years as CEO and CFO INSTA- to call it playing an integral. Role in that hyper growth journey before that Ravi spent ten years as director Ktar and I say huge sign hugh to pack Grady Might Marines will break my till Colon and psycho sandy some amazing questions, gestures, today realty method hair on the schedule. But before we move into the show stay, I wanNA take a moment to mention the sign a great example of a company that found success in building product focused on user experience Palo signs an effortless e-signature solution used by millions to security send an requests legally valid digital signatures agreements. They raised a total of sixteen million dollars in funding and recently got acquired by dropbox an impressive two, hundred and thirty million dollars checkout hallowed signed dot com forward slash. Vc to join the thousands of companies and the founders Vanni Fast Secure and simple ease Ignatz shoots fan I do have to mention another incredible product century business digits. Did you suspend the last two years building this incredibly powerful financial engines for businesses now that ready show you what they can do with it back in April, they announced a real time dashboard to help you manage your company's expenses for free and recently little buddy told me. They have some incredible amounts coming up they've raised a wins thirty, three million dollars from benchmark. And the behind digits is just epic personally, I, think it's one step towards year and the next. But by no means, least has anyone tried to send business payment recently. God, it was easier to get into college. You have reviews you have this never ending back and forth between collies which slow the process down. It's a lot of work continues to pile up as your business payment scale, and that's where rutabagas steps in all South Russillo policies not only is focused on digital business payments. By the time, it saves on both the accounting on the operation sides. Did I mention the Roussel automatically updates your accounting records make your finance teams lives so much easier. Request a fifteen minute demo install managing you beat be payments electronically. At rusefel, dot com forward slash to`serve. For free is no transaction fees. No seat fees for one full month join Roussel and building the best platform for businesses to manage that workflows and send and receive money digits League Rusefel Dot com slash two zero vc enough of me there in time for the show I'm very excited to welcome. Ravi Gupta Paul Sequoia capital. You have now arrived at your destination. Ravi. This is to Joyce Di Day city audience. He met a couple of months ago. I just love discussions and conversations and that many winding tons so much joining me stay Robbie I'm so happy to marrying honored to be here. I mean, that is kind of you may the burnouts blossom but I do don't stay I'm pretends to be blissfully ignorant on how you while the fetch some combs is how did you make your way into the world of? Venture and comes partners acquits say well, I wish to story was as interesting as starting podcast when I was eighteen, but we can't all be Harry stubbings. So I joined to last year after four and a half years INSTA-, car you know in two thousand, fifteen I met a poor and he shared the vision for what he wanted to be with me in. Honestly Harry is captivated I was inspired and so it was just a team I wanted to join. The company I wanted to help build and I was lucky to be this Yoho and CFO there that four years is a crazy time for the car. We went through hyper growth. We had all the fun that came along with that and we also saw the issues that came along with that. I got to know sequoia because sequoias. been. Armitage the guard since the earliest days and I really liked their style and how they partnered with us and so when. I decided to get back to investing and really work with the next generation of founders. Sequoia was kind enough to let me join the team I mean it isn't incredible team as you said that that Johnny Lyn Scott it's been incredible ship that I am really intrigued is embarrassed me but I I whenever I go of schedule in this in the I'm just going to put downs being friends, and so I can but you mentioned the vision elements and the. The day and I told you about the Saudi. Team this when anyone criticised Nevada but I tweet. About the dangers of vision his Ashi you can Austin ways exceed division and can always limit mental constraints around what you China cheap. Would you agree with that and how do you think about the pros and cons of vision how you evaluate it? It's interesting. I. Actually I would tell you I agree with part of it and I don't agree with the part of it. But I if we go through a deeply will end up in the same place, which is I think thet vision is really important. But I think that you can't be locked to it, which means you need vision to. Get people excited about joining your company. You need a vision to get investors excited. You need to be able to tell the story of wire company matters, but you also need to be able to adapt to things change and you can't be locked that when the environment changes around you and so when I say that I am captivated inspired by vision, it's not that that's the only way that the company can be built. It's that that story in that big picture resonates with me it's a world that I wanna live it and I think that the part of the Vision, for instance that gave. That resonated in the US doesn't it seem crazy to you that we shop for groceries the same way we shop for them eighty years ago. Don't you want to live in a world where the store changes every time you quote unquote walk into that it's bill just for you that it knows what you want that recommends different things don't you wanna live in a row where you could spend all this time with your kids I have three sons as you know where you spend all this time with your kids rather than spending time at the store and that the only time you go. Is when it's fun that vision is nonspecific to we're going to do this. Then we're going to do this this. So I thought the part of your tweet I loved was the you gotTa just keep going you don't WanNa be locked into it, but I do think having some vision is important I think you'll MC right I think it's more like it doesn't have to be the GRANDMAS Division Day one, and then we'll sit it's appreciating the transient nature rhythm being plastic to chain. So I totally agreed that we would end up in the right place. I'm so glad James into be telling me. On the team as you mentioned a private iron, you brought to cross incredible teams from take aol to instigate, and now inside the best inventions sequoia an probably at killed saying me best in one of the best. Now to tell me when thinking about team, what's the most important questions you Robbie? This because I think deeply about this topic and I'm passionate about it and I been so lucky for the people have been able to work with in my career and I do think that there is one question that I find more important than anything else and it's quite simple. I think the question you gotta ask if you're building evaluating your team is would. You enthusiastically rehire this person. If given the chance everything you know and I think the word enthusiastically is so important here because it removes this ability to be wishy washy or unclear if the answer to that question is anything other than absolutely than your answer is no and I think that people underestimate what the possibilities are. The answer is Yes to yes, I win. Rehire this team because now, all of a sudden you're constantly surrounded by these. People who can do incredible things together and I think the possibilities are actually hard to describe. It's also so much more fun and so I, think it's a mistake that many people make that they don't think deeply enough about their team and they don't hold it to a high standard together by asking the simple question. Would you do it again if you could, if you were starting from scratch can on. Did, you think one needs to be self reflective is it continuously way you need to continuously be the different people in your team and guiding would I enthusiastically? Rehavam is it kind of like annually? How do you think bout impulsive that checking rush in terms of cadence I don't know that I have a prescribed. On exactly. But I guess my instinct would be at six or twelve months. I think in startups monster like years but I guess I'd say this I think the incident that you feel like something is not moving as fast as you like in a startup I think speed is so important I think the incident you feel like something is not right I. Think you gotTa be reflective as to what's happening. That's making that not right and what am I doing fix it and I think that Russia is a very bad reason to keep doing something. We'll Gabri before the show he mentioned in terms of talent in town assessments and I'm GonNa. Put this on him so than it doesn't sound that he's coming for me. He said in a nice way you're a talented snow. In terms of acquisition it's the Thomas Labor market intact we've seen. So I'm really interested when you think about the self fighting Russian they're Ashi applying that to acquiring the most capacity talent. How do you think bonds good from? The bastable Best Harry, ought to talk about the way he said that, but we'll truly is one of the most talented people never met and he's also one of my best friends and so I'm glad you talked to him I do think it is critically important to seek out the very best when you're building your organization I. Think it's important to make sure your surrounding yourself with people that make you and the team better mark. Zuckerberg talks. How he only wants to hire people who were the world different that he would work for and I think that's totally right because you gotta find people who elevate your organization they should be better than you had something, and so you asked about how do you determine the very good from the great I don't think that's a static thing. I. Think it's about are they great for your work which to me means do their superpowers compliment your orbs weaknesses are somebody that you and the team can learn from and I think the reason I'm so passionate about this is because. This really compounds over time I think about something my partner correlation boxes and it's so simple but it's so true which is as higher as and BS higher seats, and so I think it is critically important and I try very hard to be surrounded by as all the time I have one question. It's just in terms of timelines associated you hiring right maps often is will push back and say absolutely I know I need to hire the best, but I also just need to school to bluntly I don't have the time lines in place to May. Not Happen How. Do you think by the bonds between filling sees but also maintaining course he barn something inviting stripes on. So what in terms of keeping up just the velocity but also keeping up the quality I think that strike is absolutely inspirational on this topic and I personally think they've done it the right way which I think they are willing to deal with the pain of not filling a spot because they respect that spot so much that they're only going to put somebody great in and I think that's the right approach. I personally think that trying to hit targets over hiring. Modeste team I think it's a real mistake and I think short term thinking that doesn't scale and it's very normal. I've done it. I've made that mistake but the lesson you learn if you're trying to build something enduring in great I, think you really do have to focus on getting the right team and I think that that comment from earlier on a compounding is really important here because the instant you put somebody in the seat who's not that great for your work I. think that you all of a sudden have a real risk that who are they going to go? Higher and I don't think it's something that's easy to go on to fix. So I ended up being somebody who pushes pretty hard on why is this person going to elevate your? Why is this person going to be somebody who we can learn from? Wise is somebody that we would be delighted to introduce that it all ends and proud to talk about them coming in joining our company I case we find that incredible Cam allow from that. We're proud to be part of our team in terms of Achi. Night Acquisition, how do you think about winning the very best in? Winning the most contrasted and sold off the town in the cardinal, his flipping the switch into sound bite. I don't switch I would say I focus on trying to get to know it's really important them from the I mean and I think that is an important part of it, which is you gotTa really get to know somebody you spent a lot of time at work. I mean, my family is deeply important to me and I spent a lot of time with my family but I also spend even more time than that at work during the week and I think about. That for you Harry the same thing and so the first thing is I really try to get to know the person throughout the conversation and then by doing that by becoming somebody who they trust I think that I earned the right to hopefully be a thought partner to them as they're making that decision and the one thing I do try to do is make sure that the mission of the company resonates with them because when those tough time com, which they certainly will that endurance tied to the mission is going to be the thing that makes them excited to keep. On working and keep on building the company. But I do think can I think this is the most important thing I try to do when talking to someone is I tried to remember that as important as this decision is to me is a leader it's more important to them because it's their career end. So I really try to make sure that they make the right decision for them, and obviously if it's close, it'd be great if they came and joined the company but I think that I try to remember that it's more important for them than it is for me. And this his schedule I'm intrigued because when I spoke to Sarah will and thinking about all conversations e create this environment where you feel very comfortable. Have some of the topics discussions. things, bagels do what do you think it is that allows you to create that environment. Often I think about hades inclined of show my vulnerability than beyond the past move feel safe available sounds. What do you think you do to create a safe space themselves trudy to the table to the extent. That's true I think comments from my parents I'd looked at the relationships that they built in the friendships that they built over fifty years now. I love that I love that some of my parents friends were like family and what I observed. My parents was really just this idea of you should be helpful to people. You should try to listen more. You talk you should be there for them and you should actually care and that's why that point that we talked earlier about trying to remember that a career choice for somebody is really stressful. I do think it's important to remember that it's more. Important to them than it is to you and I think that on this point of building relationships I, think people crave real human authentic interactions and I think people want to trust people and so I think it's really just about being helpful and genuine with them along the way and I think that the outcomes that come along with that and the relationships that you can build a really was that really can last a lifetime I. totally agree subsidies longstanding. Relationships and they're not being made the Johnny Sandwich Merge as Giannini. We have mentioned will a couple of times from stripe cassette, healer on Jordan's equipped how impressed you've been with the team in so many different pause I really wanted to kind of dig on this times of the sequoias. He might guess a couple of different elements but I, what have you been most impressed with? Let's start with that yes. So I mentioned mission earlier and the most. Thing to be about sequoia is this single minded devotion to mission which as far as I know it's been pretty identical since one, thousand, nine, hundred, seventy, two, which is we help the daring build legendary companies from idea to IPO, and beyond inheriting everything is built around this. The culture is so purposeful it's in the behavior that's rewarded. It's in the stories that are told, and then this devotion to the mission leads to things like partnering with Patrick and John and will and Clare but man the time Patrick John Stripe when all they had was an idea, not a single line. Of Code because they were remarkable and they were daring and sequoia believed that they were. GonNa Build something of consequence and we had to partner with, and so that's the piece that's been most impressive to me que question there's always surprising sport. Have you found surprising? Yeah. I. Knew this coming in but I definitely still been pleasantly surprised by it, which is the level of collaboration. SEQUOIA WINS A team loses a team sports analogy I think a lot of places do talk about being a team, a lot of venture firms but my observations, they seem a bit more like a golf team. Thing and then you add up the scores at the end and hope that you win sequoias more like a basketball team. Your strength through your superpower is added to a team with the sole focus of making sure that companies went, and the only thing that matters is the team's success. This is reinforced by things that seem like they are. But they're not they're critical. This is reinforced by things like unanimous decision making, which means we all need to be bought in when we decided to partner with a company and its reinforced entrepreneurs asked somebody as. Hey. If I work with sequoia who am I board member and the answer is always the same, which is whoever you want. You get to choose. We just want to support you no matter who you choose you're GONNA get all of sequoia no matter what that means that if you need help with go to market, we're going to have Karl Talk to you who scaled vm work from forty million in revenue to six billion if you need help. With engineering, we're going to have Bill Korn Talk to you who ran most of engineering google and I am so passionate about teams and it's such an important part of what I think helps companies win and I really think it's the best way to achieve emission but I will tell you that it still has been pleasantly surprising as a relatively new member of the team, and then something that makes me really happy that I get to the apartment. Of, every team has ALITA and every great company has to have a great leader as we said, is to go a he's. In Scott now, and he said that when it comes to leadership, you'll see apparel above with others is your ability to prioritize ruthlessly I'm interested in a double clicking on is how do you think the importance of saying? No is a founder amita fundamentally, it's a lesson that comes from experience witches you start out it feels so good to say, yes somebody wants to do something. Yeah. Let's do that too but the problem is that that. Feeling is fleeting because nothing gets done when you have seven priorities, ten priorities and it's on a google sheet because nobody knows what's actually important and so I remember this time, it's the car where we had six company priorities in a quarter and a month into the quarter or into the quarter weren't moving nearly as fast as we wanted on any of them, and so I just sat down in a room and said if we can. Only get one thing done the rest of the quarter, what would it be and the answer was so obvious and we were like well, let's just do that. Let's not get that done because we wanted to say we're going to work on more things and so we literally had all hands the next day we rallied everyone around that one goal and that's all it took to get us moving again and so I think that focus is. Dramatically underrated and I think that it's one of those things that it is a little bit more painful upfront to say no to hit the one thing. But I think the outcomes that you get are so much better and I think over time you can make that one too but I think people sometimes think that you're gonNA go from eight to ten and in my experience I've seen that to be a bit of a Mirage say this. Show is George mystique basically Berlin people's brains a free learn from it, and so I have to make you right hair and it's like I. Totally agree the saying I'm sure miss got many emails but time for coups off whatever it is and I say, yes, the ball too many and I need to stay notable. The question is what is the right way to say no without losing elegance grace and without leaving a bond impression do you how do you do it? Well, that's interesting because I think that there's different things than what I would tell you I actually think it's harder for you to say no to those than it was for a leader to say no to a team member. On the goal and the reason is in a company I think that a leader saying no to a team member on not wanting to work on something I think it's actually easier because you can at least get to here's what we want to accomplish in the long term, and I believe that the best way to get there is to work on. This thing because it's the most important one and so you can kind of have alignment on a shared goal. I think that the hard part when someone asks you to meet up or APP coffee or chat with them is you might not actually have a shared goal right and that they want you to do something you don't have the time and so. I think that I would tell you that I think it's important that people know that you need to do an excellent job for twenty and he'd you an excellent job for stride in that those are the priorities for you and so it's not that you can't do it ever as that. You can't do it right now and I think authenticity and the response I think people will respect. Yeah. Now I agree I agree I think that's the right approach. Of Secondary rushing cheated on the prostration element is off before the show at in Scott and he said about your exceptional examine skills, which I have to say did make me by happy is. The inside his exactly Maya domain of come when you critic Mac registered. So But anyway questions you is like it is horrible role is operatives on the best. But my question is, how do you think about what to delegate verses own control and how do you think that decision to be clear? I would imagine for the audience here that they know Assad being deeply sarcastic talked about my exceptional excel bombing skills. But I think the mistake I've seen people make is needing to do it all themselves maybe at the beginning when it's you and your co founder, maybe it's possible to do it all. But certainly when you have one hundred people or thousand people that approached, US does not scale I. think this ties back to that point about building a team that is better than you and that elevates your work and my philosophy on this is pretty simple, which is you should hire people who you can trust to deliver. I think that as the leader as your company scales, your job is to set the goal or set the strategy. Here's what we want to get done. But then you gotta give team the freedom to execute and so that to me means that you ended delegating a lot but you don't delegate the pures when we gotta go get done. Here's the kind of company that we want to be in. Here's the values but I do think that you delegate a lot of how are we going to do that? The delegation I'm totally with you I very much agree that my question is who is on accountability mechanisms while you're lightweight teams hey, this is your project to iron. Go make it happen go run with it within these parameters and you want them to be as aggressive and to be on vicious as possible but you also don't want tablets fear of failure and. Not, hitting targets, how do you think about kind of having the accountability, but also not constraining ambition when delegating that's tough I. Think the first thing for me is the most ambitious people they want the hardest problem they want to have the ball they want to be accountable for something, and so I try to look for people that really want to have that role. And then what I found to be hopeful is to let them drive the interaction with leadership on the topic, which is to say look I want to check in with you once a week but you tell me what you need. We gotta get this done over this time. You're if you tell me, you want to go off and do it. That's my normal way. Of doing it as like this, but you tell me what is the awful and I think that one of the things for me that I think you have to do is build that relationship of trust where they know you have their back. I think one of the things your team needs to know is you desperately want them to succeed. This is not a test. You know it's funny. People think about this in interviews when you're GONNA go interview somewhere. Generally you're nervous because you're thinking that the person wants to find a way to stump you and Harry. You know this when you're building your team. When you're interviewing somebody, you desperately want them to be great. All you want them to do is to blow you away you don't. Want to stop them and so interestingly, I think for accountability mechanisms I think it's important for the team and for the people who are accountable to no, I want you to succeed not here for you and I'm going to be here to support you. You tell me what you need and I. Can tell you what I've seen work in the past I. Totally agree. You and I think that's it. Right? Tommy mental transition I think the candidates going into interviews that actually the leader wants to see the best of meeting and so I think the big thing to remember I do want to ask you about challenges or lack of skills around more length, the main shaky Matt, and it's quite a big insecurity snow so much. Anymore Ashi but it has been a lost year especially as I've been developing invention I ask my questions you is on the theme of leadership and strongly to share that's also insecurity within everyone. Do you think about insecurities in media share been some of your lessons through I guess the ends to John and then also now seeing it on the other side of BC Harry, one of the things I respect the most about you is your willingness to talk about those things I mean, I, think that that makes a big difference to people hear somebody that they've you to be successful and someone like you who absolutely has done these amazing things talking about things that are not great at that they're insecure about and for me I think it comes down to I don't think people expect their leaders to have all the answers but I do think that they expect their leaders. To be honest with them and I think that is absolutely reasonable and good expectation and so when I was an instant car guy needs to share mistakes that I make with the company in audience because we wanted to have a culture where people would try things and the best way for meet a model that was the tell people sometimes we're lucky. Hey, we messed up on this at sequoia this not exactly what you asked me, but it is the thing I thought of at Sequoia one of our. Partners late last year shared their three sixty feedback with all of us army and then asked, can you help me get better on these I? Mean I thought that joke just incredible strength and it made me gain even more respect for the person and so I think on these kinds of things. I think people respond to authenticity I. Think they crave these real human interactions in their leaders because they want to follow somebody who they respect in the trust and I think sharing that kind of stuff. Can create even deeper bonds with your team, and so I'm a big believer that kind of honesty inauthentic is quite helpful failures I tony. Gradients Alison the in super helpful within the boardroom kind of building that environment of trust and splashy between the founder and the wool number, and that's another thing that eventually wanted to ask you for a long time. But anyhow sought shit fascinating purview having seen the right best of Boorda perations at instagram in particular, and then now also again on the table which sequoia. So a couple of different questions between one by one is like, I you've seen the best of the best. How would you advise me on what may truly special member Oh, I? Love that question Harry. The first thing is you already are on boards and you are going to be sure you are great. I would tell you I. Think the way I would articulate the goal for you is you should seek out to build enough trust from the very beginning with founder where you are there I call. When things are good or when things are bad and so to me when I think about how you can do that I, think there's probably three things that come to mind. The first one is I think you've got to remember what this means to the found one of our values INSTA- cart was this is your baby and I think that that is especially true for the founder of the company is not numbers on a page it's not the board deck an analogy that I think would be good. For you to think about is this company to the founder is as important as your mom is too and I think that that will help you empathize wave founder. The second thing for me is quality is just so much more important than quantity. One of my partner is Michael Abramson. He often done to say a whole lot in a board meeting but when he does talk, everyone's leaning forward in their seat because each comment is incisive and insightful and it just gets right to the point of. Oh. My Gosh, we've got to think about that and I think the last thing is in terms of trust I think if you remember that the founder almost certainly wants to find somebody they can trust. It's like interview point we were making earlier, and so I think they're looking for people that they can trust I. think if you show up consistently just show that you care which, of course you do. Then they're gonNA start confiding in your new absolutely will be the first call now I I tried to. Cut The combination three recreates branch sake bombed Saddam is found the so I, love Bruins is that you can invoice me off to the advice. Intensify insecurities in vulnerabilities that Austin Navy Caesar insecure concerned nervous about ethanol steel. It's bike on thing I've shines David before he's specifically Austin WanNa take you'll s and his question was. Approved us at Sequoia. Will you nervous what that mindset in processor the it's a great question which I actually think and I don't know what it would be like anywhere else I think Sequeira helps on this nerves point in sort of counterintuitive way because the expectation is that you go all in on the investments that you do and speculation you get to be super selective on the company's with whom you partner because people view it as a tender fifteen or twenty year partnership, and so you're allowed to keep the bar encouraged to keep the bars super high. We actually partnered with them I at the seed and then just Consistently. Blown US away I think that when we talk about the people we like to invest in us. We talk about investing in slope rather than intersect and I think severe and ruining slope is so incredible that it actually made it quite an easy decision for me of. Yeah. Absolutely. We WanNa go all in on this and and so I would say I think sequoias approach to go all in keep the bar is combined with getting beat smear runic and just believing in them made for me a lot easier that could be I have to on. Sorry to inch by this. What do you mean by slave lines dolls? How do you think about from an investment perspective? Yes. So I think it's not about where the person is today it's about where we think they can be in five years or ten years or fifteen years, and so when Samir who are very young. I think we made our survey investment when they were both nineteen years old they're clock speed their speed of learning their speed of generating insights how much better they are today than they were six months ago and how much better they will continue to be in six months when they're already rate that's the kind of stuff that makes us excited. It's about this how steep their? Slope. Is is what we get excited about it because it's such a long term thing. So it matters a lot less with the businesses today about what the business can be in the future and I think when you have founders who blow you away, you're almost giddy because it's very far to think about what it could be but all boss abilities are good. Yeah. No I totally agree I think the right of development is probably the most important but under undiscussed topics do you want one more important crashing before we move into five which as you know I love but it's kind of the final outcome and in terms of. Before you sets me before you actually both demanding and supportive, and they kind of seem at odds anything about mornings posted. So is it possible to be base and why is it important in your mind to? This concept of demanding and supportive is something that I did not make up at all. It was actually the author Adam Grant wrote give and take I. Don't know if you've read if you haven't or originals. Yeah. Love it I love it. I love it and I was lucky enough to get to have dinner without him with mutual friend a couple years ago and he was the. One, talked about this idea of people think of demanding and supportive as spectrum you can either be demanding and push people or to be supportive and help them and he said it's all wrong. It's not a spectrum. The whole point is you gotta be able to do both, and that's the best parents due to the best investors do those board members the best leaders do that just. Resume me so much. So not only do anything is possible I think it's important and so let me give you an example Michael Moore is on our border incident cart and he uses this and so the example on pushing us when we were losing twenty dollars on every order at Insta- cart, which we were at the beginning, we had some more meetings that really weren't terribly fun. Airy but Michael Thought we can do better and he respected US enough and had enough pride and what we could accomplish to tell us the truth that look this business can do much better than we're doing right now and we're all living up to our potential and that wasn't always easy to hear but it made a big difference and I think that was an example of pushing. US But he was also really supportive at the right times and so when Amazon bought whole foods I mean that was a crazy time for instance, and it's easy to think of instant art is just always having been so obvious successful like it is now but I mean that morning when Amazon bar whole foods I had two hundred, sixty, three text messages and I'm not you area. That's not a normal occurrence and so one of those text messages from my mom asking are you okay and I think the conventional wisdom at that point was that we were dead and some of those texts and calls from investors of ours asking what does it mean for my investment and that's not what Michael did Michael. Came to our office that morning and he drafted our response. To the prices literally sitting as computer and he's typing, and then after he left, he texted me his address and so we did the audience where we talked to the company about what this meant, which was the most important thing to go and do. But then the two of US spend the rest of the day Michael's house, and you can imagine this is a pretty intense day. For us but he was there and he was there for us when we needed it and I'll never forget that and that's the reason that I talk about this idea of being both pushing companies and being demanding but also being supportive because that's the kind of partner Michael is was to us and Mexican, counterpart in I aspire to be the companies with whom I work I mean. Matt Mike and they must have been some ten. Meetings feel I would be terrified. You WanNa ask one final thing I'm sorry keep on going but it's just tuning you're such a family oriented person and arm will said this. How. Did having children? Do you think change your operating mindset and change you and something that I think Bob Lot despite seeping hope to see single for the rest of my life it is still something I. Think about how do you think it changed your mindset I love that you ask that question because my wife and my kids are the most important thing in the world to me until we have three sons, they are seven, seven and six. I'm shocked that on this podcast that you have not heard them yet but I think in terms of how it's changed me I think it's really helped. ME. Focus. On what's important rather than urgent I read this book called how will you measure your life by Clay Christiansen and it's just this is my favorite book because it helps make sure that you think about this question that so simple. But I don't think most of US asking enough when I think about how all measure my wife the vast majority of the ways that will matter will be the relationship and impact. I have with my family and with my friends encloses people in my life I think kids as helped me make sure that I focus on the things that are important rather than. The urgent. There's always a reason that you should stay late and work on something because the impact that you'll make it work will be more visible for that next hour than the impact make at home by the things you do with your kids and it's more visible and tangible but over a long period of time I think it's deeply important to spend that time with my family and so I think they've helped me a time maintaining an even keel. They've helped me a ton on remembering important. They also are just so fun that I almost can't believe. I get to spend the time with the. Telling you, it's always roses but I am telling you that like the four we had kids I don't think I understood what the term you are my pride enjoyment but kids end up being that for you, which is your pride anger joy and I think they help you see work for what it is, which is this incredible thing and it helps you realize that your job at work is to help serve others rather than just get to an outcome right away. I'm so glad I, asked that question sometimes I'm like, why should I ask it? Should I ask it and then you get bits of magic. I mean a amazing but thank you for that Robbie I'm I'm really pleased Austin actually have clay's books. I'M GONNA add that list and you Olga. Fuss quick firefighters shoot. So while down for knocking out the puck ahead of time the fries. Documents. Issued Issue Statement Are you ready to rock and roll my friends I'm ready. I can't say this is often what people political Let's we not political onset most memorable past the most memorable boardman. You served on board with them. Why didn't technically serve on the board with them, but it's not even close. I mean it's Michael Horowitz. He's so insightful but he's also extraordinarily he is not even close. Definitely. Love it i. wish everyone was like. Being a laboring, tell me the biggest strength and the biggest weakness fear new ours I guess one thing for me shores once we figured out what the answer is, I really liked to get third just as quickly as humanly possible and I really do I get frustrated by processes that feel like they're slowing down and I think that the reason that I bring that up is. Processes are important as you get bigger, but I probably overly resistant to putting them in rather than the way I should be on the strength side. I think I help people cut through the noise and get to the root of R- really matters. So I think we get to the. So what quickly tell me what would you like to change about the world of Bench Robbie? Touched on him and it's not true for everyone. But I think that some people in our industry treat founders and companies like deals, and I've been on the other end when people call you or email you tell you they're passing on your company and I think that's fine. But I think sometimes they feel the need to convince you that your business was back so that they can feel like they're right and I think. It misses the whole point of companies are non numbers on a page. There are groups of people devoting their careers emission, and after I get off the phone with you as an investor. If I'm working in a company, I gotTa go back to my desk and go to work I. GotTa go to an all hands and talk about why what we're doing is great and so I think that investors would be best served. To, remember that companies do not exist for their pleasure companies exists for people to do their life's work and when you do decide it's not for you that it's not about proving that you're right. You got a genuinely hope that this thing does great because the people are still working there. Even if you're not gonNA invest in now this is probably the hardest one of if you're a cocktail which calls have would be Harry I actually no I. have no idea because I don't really drink very much and so I have no idea what the answer to that question but I would love the no way you think or what you'd answer that for you I mean answer for you I think you're an Espresso Martini because you've got this kind of full on the Tom, which has wonderfully in a peaceful appearance. But then underneath that, it's like real dat and real meat and it's surprising and it's kind of sometimes heavy but actually farmers while I think you're Martini. Will tell you Mr Saudis nobody has ever said that to me before and so I appreciate it and I'm going take it as a compliment. Well, listen when you actually do get into profile you can now put out in your by. But Listen Ravi House away like a tour days. This has been so much fun. I. Really I'm so thrilled that we goes through this and I can't thank you enough for joining me. Stay. Thank you I really appreciate it, and I can't wait to do many things together in the future. I mean what a fantastic and I just love doing that show as you can tell from the phone, we had there I. Think you really see Raviolis true side when he was about his family and that was incredibly special hair. As I said, I just have so many wonderful things said about him if you'd like to see more from us though behind the scenes you can on instagram and h stabbings nineteen, ninety-six, T. B.'s I was loved see that but before we leave each day. I WANNA to take a moment to mention hello sign a great example of a company that found success in building product focused on user experience. Hello sign is an effortless e-signature solution used by millions to security send an requests legally valid digital signatures agreements. They raised a total of sixteen million dollars in funding and recently got acquired by dropbox for an impressive two, hundred, thirty, million dollars check out Hallo signed dot com forward slash chooser visa to join the thousands of companies and the founders. I said and Simple Ease Ignatius fan I do have to mention another incredible brought century business digits. Did you suspend the last two years building this incredibly powerful finance engine businesses now that ready show you what they can do back in. April. They announced a real time dashboard to help you manage your company's expenses for free and recently, and little buddy told me. They have incredible amounts minutes coming up they've raised a wins thirty, three million dollars from benchmarking. And the team behind digits is just epic. Personally I think it's one startup towards this year and the next and laws but my no means least has anyone tried to send a business payment recently. Oh. My God it was easier to get into college. You have reviews you have this never ending back and forth between which is slow. The process down it's a lot of work continues to pile up as your business payment scale, and that's where route steps in all searchable apart policies not only. As focus on digital business payments by the time, it saves on both the accounting and the operation sides did I mention the Roussel automatically updates your accounting records may he announced teams lives? So much easier request a fifteen minute demo install managing. You'll be to be payments electronically at RUSEFEL DOT COM forward slash two zero C for free. That's no transaction fees no seat fees for one full month join Roussel and building the best platform for businesses to manage their workflows and send and receive money digitally. Dot Com slash two zero. As always I appreciate all your support and I call them way to bring a fantastic episode this coming Friday?

founder Sequoia partner Harry stubbings US Robbie Roussel Ravi Gupta Partners Sequoia Johnny Lyn Scott Ravi Gupta Paul Sequoia Patrick John Stripe Austin CEO and CFO INSTA INSTA Joyce Di Day
Better diversity in venture capital investing might mean putting it in the contract

Marketplace Tech with Molly Wood

06:28 min | 3 months ago

Better diversity in venture capital investing might mean putting it in the contract

"Hey, it's molly would hear one of the most uncomfortable things to talk about with your kids is money especially now. We've got you covered though with a new podcast for kids and their families million Brazilian for marketplace helping dollars make more sense subscribed wherever you get your pod tests. Bringing diversity into venture capital investing might mean you got to put it in the contract from American public media. This is marketplace tech I'm Ali would. This week, a group of venture capital firms announced that they're planning to make diversity a core part of their deals with startup founders. The ten firms committed to including new standard language in the contracts called term sheets that they make with startup founders. It's a diversity writer that says that the company and lead investor will make every attempt to include a member of an underrepresented group as a CO investor. It's not. Binding language but the idea is that it will create opportunity for underrepresented investors to participate in deals and also attract founders who prioritize a commitment to equity. The initiative was started by Alejandro Guerrero, a venture capitalist based in Los Angeles with the firm act one ventures I wanted funds to feel because, yes, this is important and everybody out here is talking about it and all the founders are trying to see more. That we're the ones signing up for it. We're actually going to be the ones that have the competitive advantage because founders are looking to work with individuals that are trying to do more. It doesn't have the teeth to see it is enforceable, but that wasn't the point. Right the point here is that all of us know what this is about all of us are making a commitment it's going to it's GonNa. Take some effort it's GonNa. Take a bit word particularly if you know maybe you didn't have the diverse network of potential investors to bring in but now it's reason to do that right it. It's a reason to go out and build more networks meet individuals that you know that you can invite and you'll get to know more, and then hopefully when you build that trust, you'll start seeing incredible new deal flow. I mean I guess I wonder why wouldn't affirm WANNA have diversity rider like this I can't speak to why they wouldn't want to do right. Every fund is different. The way that they're structured their make up their cash, their LP's I don't know. What will success look like I'm hopeful that yeah within. A few years year to that, we see this in the majority of venture funds, and hopefully we'll take it to further and say what you embed this in my term sheet. Yeah. Best case could you see a scenario where as this conversation becomes more prevalent? The push from founders right. The competition could incentivize firms to bring on more underrepresented partners. Yeah. Exactly. That's where I hope this is all GonNa go right like the matter what we do it's not enough right hire more people write more checks do the writer create officer programs, cohorts, all of it like not enough the gap is so wide right diversity is forever, and if we start thinking about it in that regard, then it won't become part of our. Normal behavior when we're out building networks when we're looking for companies when we're out doing deals, how we structure them, you know how advise our our founders to think about building their executive ranks their boards, all of it. Right. We'll give them off to a more equitable than just roll and that's the world that I wanna live in I'm an optimist and I'm hopeful that that's where we're going to see ourselves in and some in the coming years here. Alejandro Guerrero is the principal with the firm act. One ventures. And now for some related links as we mentioned in the interview, there are some notable absences from the diversity writer program big Silicon Valley names like sequoia Andriessen, Horowitz client of Perkins we asked all three if they had plans to join this totally non-binding voluntary inclusion of language and their term sheets with the goal of starting a conversation about diversity at all stages of the investing life cycle. Andriessen Horwitz pointed us to its cultural leadership fund and eighteen million dollars. So Fund made up of one hundred percent black limited partners whose primary investor is also black with one goal being to quote enable more. Young African. Americans to enter the technology industry. I should note that the LP's who've put money into the Cultural Leadership Fund are pretty much all celebrities, corporate executives and some athletes. So not the scrappy would be investors who guerrero says he's hoping we'll get a foot in the door with something like the diversity writer. And teepee insights piece from last month notes that the Cultural Leadership Fund has invested in sixty five companies and of those just three have at least one black founder and eleven have at least one female founder. To saying maybe more conversations wouldn't hurt. Cleaner and sequoia didn't get back to us in time for air. And here's what else we're watching in tech on Tiktok watch apparently, maybe you Walmart and Microsoft might team up to buy it and then Walmart would pivot Tiktok towards a more full on ECOMMERCE shopping experience. So creators and influencers could just. Sell you things which listen again privacy and data collecting are real concerns with Tiktok may be no more so than with facebook instagram. Google or Amazon, but considering the awesome and fun and diverse breadth of content on talk and the true love that people have for it. You ve kind of couldn't even engineer sadder fate. tiktok CEO Kevin Meyer who just took over a few months ago saw that Pale horse coming and promptly quit the announced the move Thursday Stephanie who produces marketplace? Tech. Alvarado our assistant producer Michael Lipkin our senior editor Becca Wineman, and Robin Edgar our engineers I'm Ali. Would that's marketplace tech. This is a PM.

writer Alejandro Guerrero Cultural Leadership Fund Tiktok Ali Walmart Los Angeles Andriessen Horwitz sequoia facebook founder Google sequoia Andriessen executive Alvarado Amazon Kevin Meyer
Believe It Or Not, Forests Migrate  But Not Fast Enough For Climate Change

Environment: NPR

04:25 min | 4 months ago

Believe It Or Not, Forests Migrate But Not Fast Enough For Climate Change

"We're all familiar with migration. Will Beasts Gallop across Africa Monarch Butterflies Flit across the Americas. What if I told you that? Forests migrate to hear Science Writer Zach Saint George Reading from his new book. The journeys of trees individual trees as will be apparent to most people who've encountered one. Don't have to move around. Once a tree is rooted in one spot. It's rare for it to wind up in another forest, though a restless things anytime tree dies or sprouts, the forest is a part of has shifted a little. The migration of afforest is just many trees sprouting in the same direction. Through the fossils that ancient forests left behind scientists contract their movements over the eons they shuffled back and forth across continents, sometimes following the same route more than once. Or Whales Zach Saint. George told me it's an agonizingly slow migration. As forced creep inch by inch to more hospitable places, they produce a seed, and that seed arrives. Somewhere new maybe a little bit beyond the edges of the species current range, so the migration of a forest is a communal. It's constant is accomplished over many generations, so if we imagine a forest, it's not that it is sending all of the seeds to the north. It's that it's sending seeds in every direction, but the ones that go to the north thrive a little more than the ones. The went to the south, and so over time the forced marches steadily northwards. Is that right? Yeah. That's right, so it's a question of. The species succeeding more in one part of its range, becoming more abundant in one part of its range and less abundant in another part of its range. This has happened over Millennia and climate change tends to be the driving force pushing and pulling force around the globe of course today, climate change is speeding up and trees can't keep up with the pace. Take California it's getting hotter and drier and scientists estimate that before too long Joshua. Tree National Park may not be able to sustain Joshua Trees Zach Saint George describes a similar threat to Sequoia National Park during California's epic drought a few years back. The sciences there had never seen anything like it. They worried that maybe. Sequoia National Park would no longer be the place for giant quiz and I think at some point we will lose these ancient trees, and we will have to think about what. We do with the places in. DO WE PLANT NEW GROVES? Somewhere else this is known as assisted migration humans, planting trees and other places where they're more likely to thrive, but that carries risks, people can accidentally introduce insects and diseases to new places where they may wipe out entire populations of native plants and animals, so Saint George Rights. There is a debate among conservationists and foresters today. Should humans help the trees escape? I think there are going to be instances where people are probably going to step in and. Help species moved to places there. They'll be more suitable in the future so far there are no huge movements of citizen groups moving trees North or upslope, but that's kind of one vision of the future that the people I interview hope to see. Did you end the process of writing this book more or less optimistic than when you started. I think I ended more optimistic. Climate change is going to have these really dramatic effects on forests. Forest, we're going to see species rearranged. We'll probably see more fires and droughts and millions of dead trees, but The book is very much about trees, but it's also very much about people and I met a lot of people in the process. who sort of see these changes coming? And have mourned what has been lost and what will be lost? And are still continuing to try and do good and try and try and. Work Towards a better future you can see these vast changes in the future, and you can be worried about them, but you can still continue to do good and work in the moment for small things. That Zach Saint George author of the journeys of trees of story about forests, people and the future. Thank you for talking with us today. Thanks so much for having me.

Zach Saint George Sequoia National Park Zach Saint California Africa Writer Tree National Park upslope
Self-Driving for Dollars

The Information's 411

23:53 min | 10 months ago

Self-Driving for Dollars

"Ba Friday. Everybody welcome to the information. Four one one. That your weekly podcast from the information dot com a new site that covers the tech industry. My name is Tom Dotan. I am a reporter at the information to segments in today's episode. I I'm talking to a mere a Friday. Who wrote a story about a data point one of our fame data points about Self driving cars and the amount invested did in that technology over the last decade. It's a lot Sixteen billion dollars more than that actually in the mirror and I break down all the different Investors the big companies that have spent the most trying to bring this technology to the real world. Why we are still so far away from it really being a a thing that you and I could use in our daily lives and why we did not include Tesla in that chart big point of controversy on twitter So Amir gives his explanation for the world to hear why twitter was not included in our self driving investment technology chirp. And then. I'm talking to Kate Clark. Who wrote a story about Sequoia and how the that fun it has expanded? It's number of partners who do seed investing and it gives us an opportunity to look into. Why seed investments as a category has gotten so so competitive? Why the big funds like Sequoia WanNa spend more in it and what it means for the smaller funds that were seed a seed focused? Do WanNa make one quick plug here before we start the show as as a reminder we have our upcoming. WTO Woman Summit in New York on May Twelfth. You can find more information and a link to purchase tickets at the information dot com slash events. So so I want to thank our inaugural sponsor. Rb See the Royal Bank of Canada for Supporting this year long program which includes a quarterly newsletter cocktail. The party's membership groups and more all right. Let's get to my talk with you. Have the story that is a data point one of our data intensive charts but so much more right and the reason it was more more than just a data point is it was truly an opportunity to dig into the state of self driving car technology right now and where the top companies that are financing financing it where they are kind of. What's the how much progress have? They made how realistic is it. And he'll however many years into this whole thing and so I mean to give the article headline headline a bit of time. You chartered out. How much has been spent on self driving car technology years and the number? UK arrived at with Sixteen Billion Elian at a minimum at at least sixteen billion right and this is investment in a fully self driving car like a robot. Taxi like automated taxis. It's like no driver not driverless. Taxi basically right and that's the promise right. That's what Waymo that's what Uber that's what crews and so the seems like there's a bit of a ninety nine percent are the rest but there's the one percent it's really just the top. Three control like a huge percentage or spend array responsible for a huge percentage that spent. So that's a waymo that's crews tuber. Yeah and these are these are pretty substantial organizations cruises like seventeen hundred employees way. Mo's like fourteen hundred employees like thousand engineers who crews probably has more than thousand engineers. This is a these are huge cost centers and they are going to operating on the assumption that they'll be able to create a business out of technology that doesn't exist yet and it's you know it's a gamble I'm glad somebody's taking it Lord knows. We need more auto auto safety but but the modern car is getting a lot safer already. You have automatic emergency breaking other collision warnings blindspot about warnings things like that that are making drivers a lot. Safer making them better and what we're going to have to do is measure he fully self-driving driving technology against that new standard. And it's going to make it a lot harder to prove that you know these efforts weather from Waymo cruiser Uber any of the others Working on Zouk or are we have a long list. There that they're actually safer than human driver. So I think progress is being made we know that it is Internally these companies are reporting reporting progress. They're certainly not reporting it externally. And there's a big debate now about how how to measure safety. How these companies should publicly report safety? And it's a discussion we're going to have to have because there's no There's no great answer right now. we've written a lot about this topic especially relates to cruise But really the thing that actually came out of this story was What what is the state of the art driving right right? And that's why I thought the top three companies that you have listed there which have invested the most in it were a good place to start because each each have different incentives for wanting to have self driving technology exists in the world Uber's I understand. We'll get to them in a bit but Waymo has been at this for for longer than anyone right. Why is it of interest to alphabet to invest more than anybody or it's important that they are willing to invest more than anyone to make this his work well alphabet house like infinity cash so you know chump change for them to spend three or four billion dollars over a decade on on something like this but now waymo is a like billion dollar? A year cost center almost so it's it's going to be Needing to show some progress or they are gonNA have to make some changes in the near future They tried to get some outside investors to start shouldering some of the costs but because of the valuation they were asking four least last year. They weren't able to get that waymo Larry Page Sergey Brin when they were still when they were still around and they were very passionate and they're still involved still alive still around the company they they were very very interesting this topic. Because it's it's a topic anyone can get around like who who doesn't know somebody who's been in a car wreck right If you haven't been in major one yourself and and so when you can show that like a good percentage of the time you know the vehicle can like see more around it human. Can you know you just sort would've star to believe this idea that I it is possible possible so well-meaning reasons for for doing this and they also think it's GonNa be gigantic business sure if investment so the thing that You know they've done a lot of marketing WAYMO has around its state state of the art prototypes and everyone agrees that do have the quote unquote best or safest or most advanced technology analogy. But there's still. This is a a really huge cost to operate this because even the most advanced prototypes. That waymo has which these driverless vans with. Nobody in the car for the passenger when there is a passenger. It still costs a lot because you have to have a a individual human sitting in an office monitoring from afar every move that each of these vehicles is making and they don't do that many any driverless right ride today. It's like you know several. They want to wrap it up and then on the other side on the ground they actually have a chase Van van right. This is kind of following behind this driverless. Van In case it gets stuck and the person who's monitoring it from the office can't help help so this is a really really huge cost to do this and they're they're doing this out of an abundance of caution they don't WanNa make a mistake or we've seen what happens when things go uber. Uber's there's a good example of that so the the other thing that we mentioned the story is about apple which is the most mysterious of all of the entrance. Yeah they they. I'm sure they still have ambitions to design a car from the ground up that is incredibly ambitious undertaking And and for a while they worked very hard on it trying to trying to do just that and also to develop their own sensors and very expensive things in the hardware world that the they know how to do who for other consumer electronics cars are much more complex so they. They scaled that down However they do have a vehicle engineering a very experienced vehicle engineering person? Earning Doug Field. who was at Tesla previously? They have Jamie Wayto. Who came from WAYMO is a systems engineering leader who sort of tries to pull the hardware and software together learn decide you know When it can go out onto the street and they have been doing demos for years right for the executives at Apple Bull showing where they are to prove that they should still merit the investment? That apple would need to make yearly. Here's my question. If apple knocking to be the leader in the space in terms of the amount investment awesome and clearly technology. Why bother with them? I mean they're not going to strike gold by doing this in tenth place or whatever it is on your list I mean why for them. Do they think it's worth continuing to make Even any level of investment for technology that they're just not going to be able to to achieve. Why why I think Probably a few reasons for that one is that you know apple has no no problems being second or third third or fourth to something as long as they do it better than anyone else or more simply than anyone else Certainly in the phone space And I I think that this is important enough category with enough investment happening globally. That they just they wanna have kind of a stake in it In case it becomes a really big deal and the third thing is is that you know. We're talking about a lot of applied machine learning that's happening to various parts of the software stock. And you know when you have people who are machine learning practitioners. If it doesn't work out you can throw them at different problems. There are other ways use people who work on computer vision challenges and I think that You have all these technical minds in this organization They can then go on and do other things for apple and in fact they have already they actually redistributed some of the head count for this project tightened group to other parts of Apple Another name we haven't talked about his apt which is a car parts supplier That actually has a pretty substantial investment in this space. There are all kinds of players here. carmakers. Car Parts Right. Yeah so that's I mean is there. Is there any advantage that so number two on your on your chart was cruise. which is mostly owned by John? Dan Retire early owned by. GM not entirely but mostly yeah Is there any advantage that a GM lead project would have over a tech companies just given they are. Yeah yes the there is. I think there's an argument to be made that there's a better path to scaling. The manufacturing of driverless ever Lewis Vehicle. Kind of a purpose built special driverless vehicle with no searing wheel That's made to do just this sort of Robo taxi and and However the software needs to be good for that matter right And I think everyone sort of waiting for the software to get their One Company we haven't talked about it. We should is Tesla. Yeah I was saving them to the end because they're just a treat a little little delicate little Turkish delight one end. Yeah okay so Tesla is not on your chart this enraged me. I felt like I should have tweeted at you. Five Thousand Times from all my different body counts to ensure that you knew Tesla was a major oversight here so what were were you thinking. Why did you not include Tuzla while we reference Tesla in this piece and we actually gave estimated figure For their spending in this in this space with their relatively lean team which we've written about in detail In the past few even see their org chart from like a year or so ago for the entire autopilot group information dot dot com. Yes so they are first and foremost developing a driver assistance system. It is you you know. Automated George C.. Breaking it is like assisting you in like driving correctly on the freeway it keeps you in keeps you in your lane Sometimes drives for you as long as you keep your finger on the wheel or don't leave your finger finger on the. Yeah keep your hands on the wheel and Ilan has is create ambitions. He's talked a lot about full self driving capabilities and that that's that functionality is going to be available starting as soon as this year. But he's never really specific about what he means by that but even if a driveway to driveway. Yeah well with a parking lot even if he you know the thing about autopilot Ilit and Tesla is this is an imperfect system. It's a system that makes mistakes and then the human is is required to make those mistakes and Mike Not Steer into a concrete wall for instance or not steer into the back of a cruiser patrol. Cruiser that stopped in the middle of the highway. Away which sometimes happens happens more than think. So this is what's known as a level two system. It's a system. That's a driver assistance system but the drivers responsible they have always been developing a system where the driver is ultimately responsible for the safety of the vehicle for them to really be in the same category as these other developers. I these other developers are doing things in a different way. They're saying we're not GonNa let the passenger her of this vehicle. Be Responsible for the safety. We are going to be responsible for the safety. Just like Uber. Uber is responsible for your safety or lift as responsible for your safety when you get in one of those things with Tesla. I don't know that there's really any indication Xinyuan can talk all he wants and it's fine. He leaves great great things. But don't it's out his by. It's a huge stretch for him to just take responsibility. Ability for this system that we know is imperfect and his out there So we'RE GONNA WE'RE GONNA seeing is he's GonNa kind of unleash autopilot for city streets. Let's try to like recognize stop signs and stoplights and maybe take turns on automatically things like that when you put in a Panthera address that you want to get a two and I'm really really curious to see how that goes. It's been a very difficult road. No Pun intended for them to adapt autopilot which is made for free ways to a city street system. But they're working on it and they have this sort of you know even people on the autopilot team the they buy into this vision but they they usually have different timelines and he does so. They'll say okay. Yeah in the future. Maybe we'll have like a giant neural network. That can figure out how to get us from any point. Eight any a B and write its own software and and really be the kind of a we wanted to be but right now we're just trying to figure out some some basic stuff and I don't see any you reason given that autopilot already very successful in marketing Tesla vehicles and selling vehicles. There's no reason for Tesla to suddenly take h which enormous liability of saying. Okay when you turn on autopilot. It's on US right. It's not on you it's on us. That's such a such a leap. And and so you know. It's fine. Get hazed on twitter for this. Even among subscribers who are tesla shareholders tesla enthusiasts or just supporters of of the argument is that death initially what they're doing is something different and you can argue for its merits and whatever he's achieved but when you're talking about self driving technology as it relates to other companies. It's just something else it's different. Yeah Yeah Anyway. Yeah No. There's all interesting stuff and I think we'll see how the city streets thing does cause kazaa sounds cool but it also sounds something different. Keep your hands on the wheel matter. What Alan says? Keep her hands on the wheel off one thing. All right thank you. Thank you The story was about sequoia and their expansion of their seat investing team but the story also gave a broader look at the competitiveness of seed investing these days and this sort of dichotomy between dedicated seed funds and mega funds that have arms and growth arms. But let's start off with sequoia so what. What is it that you uncovered or what is it? The news that you broke your about sequoia team. Yeah so sequoias hired four new partners for its C team which brings the total. I think it's to fourteen Yeah so it was a it was a big jump Venture capital capital firms. Don't typically higher for partners once It's a little confusing and squares case because actually call their investors partners. Some of them are more like general partners which means they get the more carry in the fund and some are more like principles associates. Okay and these ones that they hired here which are they. I think it's combination again. They won't tell you anything so it's really difficult to know what just given the experience these people have. I think it's about fifty fifty split between higher level partners in some lower level. Yeah okay so I think think of Sequoia as a company that does a lot of things certainly gross stage. I mean they have a lot of fun can run down for me. What their funds are eight billion dollar Global Growth Fund which I think is the one that got the most press and has gotten the most attention just because it was one of the largest funds ever I think only maybe below Softbank and Obviously Vision Fund is its own is in a class of its own own but it a soft sequoias? Abe Billion Dollar Fund is massive. They also have. I think it's a billion dollar venture fund they have an even larger US growth fund. They have one hundred and eighty million dollar seed fund which which is kind of what I was focusing on in this story right and that seems to be an area of increasing focus for them. I mean why do they feel like they needed to bulk up their seed team. Yeah so quayle. I will say that this isn't an area of increasing focus but if you look at the pace of their deals and the fact that they fired for new partners. I think you've been kind of infer that they are doubling down a bit on the seed stage. I think that's because when you look at growth deals or even like series bs or even series around they're getting a lot more competitive which means it's really difficult for even the best venture capital funds to you. Get in the deals so a lot of y though. I mean I would think if you're sequoia. The brand name is sterling right. Couldn't they get access to any. CDL They wanted so yes when it comes to see he deals they absolutely can get access and I think they probably wipe out pretty much all other competing funds With the exception of some of these other ones that have amazing branch mercer right right but when it comes to later stage it's harder to get in so sequoia and score is not the only fund with a strategy. But I think if you go really early you can get in you get steaks early. They're they're they're they're worth a lot of course later on if you're successful and you're able to bypass competition that comes at the later stage right right. And do you think sequoia felt that they were being crowded out on the later Teijin. They needed to have more boots on the ground for the early. I don't know I think I think what sequoias focusing on is is the fact. Yes more boots on the ground early because seeds date has gotten so much more competitive. There's a lot more capital in the market right now than there has really been in any other year and that you see the impacts of that at all stages There's a lot of new funds to keep cropping up. The seed stage at the series and I think sequoia is looking at the market and realizing if we prepare by expanding our team getting more boots on the ground we can stay on top. I don't think sequoia is threatened. I don't think their brand is through. It'd be it'd be hard to believe so from outside just sequoia what's going on with the seat stage environment right now like you had these companies you have these companies start funds like a cowboy ventures and other smaller assists dedicated seed funds. That I would imagine. There's some competitive issues for them. Given that you have. These mega funds like sequoia crowding crowding in as much as they can on that on that. I think a couple of things are happening. One With Sequoia and other large funds getting in on C. dill's the size of C.. Dill's has expanded a lot since maybe two thousand seventeen I think dill's largest like six million when historically there were less than a million and as a result of growing seed deals you see a new class of investing come come up which is preceded so now there's actual dedicated precede venture capital funds that will invest. Maybe a million dollars. Maybe five hundred thousand dollars. Maybe even two million dollars and the company will go on to raise a seed round which is actually a lot more like a series. So what you're seeing a shift Sir across the board. Yeah Yeah what is really behind that though is just there's so much money in the markets that if you're a company why not ask for more I think two things and I think yes mostly. I think it's the the fact that there are so much capital in the markets but some people will say it's because companies are actually raising money later and there is some data that shows that companies are actually more like three years old went before they raised their first I industry around and that's because of aws and other things that have allowed companies to build entire companies with very little money. Because it's actually a lot cheaper to get a company off the ground with these new services. So what do you think happens. Though to the smaller funds that were dedicated at sea ones. I think that they have to do a few things I think. They have to specialize. They need to be like okay. We're going to invest in the future of work only like you. I've seen new funds come up That are focused on verticals. Like that. Oriole see we're GonNa do the specific Slice of enterprise SAS. You'RE GONNA see less anything we already are seeing less generalists at that stage because you have to show the start up that if you if you partner with me I will offer you more than sequoia. Because I'm an expert at what you're doing and I can give you that so I think there's that and there's also the expansion of resources to quayle will mostly wipe out others When it comes to resources they have similar to injuries and Horowitz? They have a full-time staff of people who can essentially be used as fun operation. Yes exactly so. I think you'll see maybe seat once trying to do that. I think it's going to be difficult. They obviously have less to work with some of these. Smaller funds are kind of like startups in themselves right in in the likelihood that they could kind of pull a reverse sequoia sequoia or something and say actually let's raise money and be a growth fund as well. Is that an option. I think. No No. It's not an option. I mean maybe a handful of funds who could raise larger you. High have seen handful of funds raised two hundred million dollar funds because they're going to follow on with their best companies. They're going to keep investing and that's one strategy of of of making sure that you're you're keeping up your stake in your best bets but overall no. I don't really think it's much of an option to go the other direction unless you are a sequoia which you know right right and there's only one Aric thanks uh.

Sequoia Tesla Sequoia WanNa apple partner twitter US WTO Kate Clark Royal Bank of Canada quayle New York Tom Dotan reporter Waymo Sergey Brin Waymo UK Tuzla
Voice in Canada - Alexa Connectivity for Toyota 2020

Voice in Canada

01:37 min | 1 year ago

Voice in Canada - Alexa Connectivity for Toyota 2020

"Skills all right. Are you in the market for a new car. Do you like toyota would've vehicles well then. You may be very interested in this little bit of news. Just recently announced was the news about more connectivity connectivity options for toyota and lexus vehicles for twenty twenty so the models they've mentioned that these connectivity options are going to be included included in our the toyota sequoia tundra four runner as well as the tacoma and the entire lexus rx are ex range so why is this relevant to us well they are allowing these cars or they're setting up these cars to have connectivity options where you can actually control control multiple things locking and unlocking doors starting and stopping the engine checking the status of windows and sunroofs checking the fuel level locating your vehicle and even monitoring guests drivers drivers and of course relevant to us this can be controlled by lexi so it will allow drivers to perform remote vehicle commands and by using an amazon echo device at home so it seems like almost every day there's another car company that is adding lexi to their cars so if you're interested in this and you are thinking about maybe getting a car and you love using lexi to control things then you might wanna look into the twenty twenty models which will be coming up very soon all all right have a great day talk to you tomorrow brief cast dot f._m.

toyota toyota sequoia lexus rx lexus tacoma amazon tundra twenty twenty
Bill Coughran:  Bell Labs researcher, Google executive, Sequoia Capital VC

Behind The Tech with Kevin Scott

1:07:08 hr | 1 year ago

Bill Coughran: Bell Labs researcher, Google executive, Sequoia Capital VC

"<music> I've always done in the last many years is I will give you my advice as a leader inside a company but then I also give you my advice as an individual digital and I think to me that's den. One of the things that I think has bonded people to be over the years. Hi everyone welcome to behind the tech. I'm your host Kevin Scott Chief Technology Officer for Microsoft in this podcast. We're going to get behind the tack. We'll talk with some of the people who made our modern tech world possible and understand what motivated them to create what they did so so join me to learn a little bit about the history of computing and get a few behind the scenes insights into what's happening today. Stick around hello and welcome to behind the tech. I'm Christina Warren's senior club advocate at Microsoft and I'm Kevin Scott Today. We're going to be talking to a person that I have long admire Bill Coren I met bill when I was <hes> young engineer Google and he was one of the executives running all of the very the important bits they're ultimately bill went on to run search infrastructure security maps local <hes> said this huge <hes> swath of all of the big complicated important things eh Google in a prior life he'd been entrepreneur. He helped run a networking company <hes> and before that he had been <hes> computer science professor and <hes> and was <hes> at bell labs abs running the competing sciences research division during the period where they invented things like the C. Plus plus programming language <hes> so <hes> I still to this day <hes> slightly in awe of bill and <hes> he is the engineering executive. I would like to be when I grow up. I don't blame you so I'm curious <hes> Christina <hes> just like everyone else that is on the show including <hes> including me. You've had not necessarily a straightforward path into technology. I was just sort of wondering like <hes> you know. Can you tell us a little bit about what that path has been which mentors you've had to help guy you as you sorta figured out your journey yeah definitely so before between Microsoft I worked in media for a decade and I was a journalist in an analyst and <hes> reported mostly on technology and business stuff so I did have tech and I've always had an interest in tact but we always different perspective and what's kind of great when you ask about mentors. I think my probably my biggest mentor would be a man. His name is Jim Roberts. He was my editor in chief at at Nashville for a time and he previously was the deputy managing editor the New York Times and he's now currently the editor in chief and she'd contin officer at Cheddar and <hes> just he's got like this great longstanding like old school journalism career but what I love about Jim is a we used to vital time so he really kind of pushed right like we we used to all the time but be he saw what was happening to the media landscape and he decided that he wasn't just going to sit back and not evolve. You know he was early on twitter. He was early on embracing social social and digital platforms and really push to get the New York Times online and to make to bring the two divisions they used to be separate like to bring the the print in the online part together and so when I switched careers <hes> he he was somebody that I kind of looks at because he even though he didn't switch careers was willing to evolve and wasn't just going to stand back and and hope that things continued to the way it always been and so even though we always fight like I learned so much from him and I continue to learn so much from him yeah the thing that really always amazes me and inspires me about people who are willing to spend their time mentoring others is that these the people have extraordinary generosity and sort of <hes> taking the time and then sort of sharing their perspective and like to be a good mentor. I mean it sounds like because you guys were fighting. All the time like that requires a a lot of energy like that means that he cared enough about you and your success and what you were doing that he was willing to like fully engage with you in push which is not an easy thing to do not at all and I have to say the most gratifying thing is that in recent years he's he's actually reached out to me for my inputs on different things which is just felt amazing. <hes> and I know that I can do the same with him so yeah yeah. I bet that is <hes>. That's really awesome in in one of the things that <hes> that we're GONNA here in my conversation with bill is like bill was one of the most influential <hes> mentors in <hes> shaping my career path <hes> like there were many many moments where the advice that bill gave gave me <hes> was perhaps the pivotal thing and like these very pivotal decisions that had these sort of long long term repercussions for for my life in my family and the the people that I worked worked with and he was incredibly busy at the time and like he was incredibly senior relative to me he somehow or another decided to take the time like I will. I will always be grateful for him and like I've sort of had the same thing with bill that <hes> you know it sounds like you've had with your mentor where I will try to return <hes> return the favourite a bill and like help him out with some things that he's working on but like maybe the you know sort of the biggest reciprocity there is that I was so moved and so appreciative by what bill was willing to do for me that like I try to do the same thing for other folks he's really informed Like my philosophy on coaching and how I give advice to the people and like he's one of the reasons why more often than I will say you know yes when someone asked me for like a little tiny slice of time for for advice I love that I love that so much and I can't wait to meet bill. That's awesome so let's go ahead and chat with bill so next up. We'll meet with Bill Corum bills one of my engineering heroes. He's a researcher teacher entrepreneur and business executive whose career includes big jobs like head of the Computing Science Research Division at Bell labs the birthplace of UNIX the C._n._C. Plus plus programming languages and other technologies that are foundations of modern tech world and bill was s V._p.. Of Search infrastructure maps and local at Google bill is now partner at sequoia where he invest in advises and coaches tech entrepreneurs the thing that I think everybody will tell you about bill is <hes> he is just by temperament and <hes> sort of depth of knowledge like one of the best people in the world to work with <hes> as an engineer like everybody who's ever worked worked for bill wants to continue to work for bill as long as they possibly can so I'm. I'm thrilled that you are here with us today. I've I've I've been hesitant to ask you to come armed because <hes> like we've had lots and lots of people on the show you in some ways is are the most intimidating winemakers because I'm are you so much. You're very kind Kevin thank you for the invitation at I also as I think you and some of the audience probably knows. I don't spend a lot of time doing public public things but <hes> with the kind of tation. I'm I'm very pleased to be. We're delighted so I I really want to <hes>. I really want to get into your story so you you got your P._H._d.. In Computer Peter Science from Stanford and no I finished my p._H._d.. And then I went to bell labs I I did do work as a commercial programmer while I was a caltech but that was a side job <hes> but I went to bell labs and I did a lot of work in <hes> fluid modeling and <hes> semiconductor modeling early on and then became interested in what today would be called distributed computing and Kinda shifted to that and then I was asked at some point to become the leader of a group and and then I ended up I stepped up a few steps in and ended up as the head of the competing science research center. How did that transition go for you? I mean I've I've always been interested in in this because I think the people who have worked for you and with you admire both if your ability is <hes> like a technical leader as well as your technical ability and those two things don't always go hand in hand. Some people think they're inversely proportional the <hes> I it's interesting I I've always tried to read and explorer different technology areas my senses Kevin near the same <hes> and <hes> so I I try to stay converse percents. I also tried to develop relationships with people that I work with WHO I believe our experts in the areas the they understand more deeply than I do and I just tried to synthesize as much as I can but over over the years I've also learned like it's silly of meat descend into the code in a major PRODUC projects because I can't contribute that in that way anymore but I can think about how does it fit in and and what are the constraints since operating under <hes> you know there are often big choices about what to do in terms of the basic algorithm ick approach and so forth and I try to stay current with that <hes> but over the years I it's funny I shifted away from the numerical modeling stuff even though it's sort of come back and a form of machine learning and became much more deep on the distributed <hes> system side <hes> but you can learn new things one of the things always amused me when I ended up at Google was I had never worked on a web service before I joined Google and early two thousand three and and yet somehow over fairly short period of time I became responsible for the Mary associated with Google Dot Com so you know you appears. Dogs can occasionally learn new trucks. I think you're being <hes> you being very very modest but you've done all this work and distributed computing and like you had founded a network company <hes> like if you had tons of very relevant experience that had a bill like high high scale systems well so what happened to me I so I started life at bell labs very much in the research mold <hes> so success was was writing papers and giving talks and what was a very academic style success metric over the years at bell labs. I felt like I was going to conferences and seeing the same subset the three to five hundred people over and over again and I I got a little bit frustrated with the my ability impact things and so I guess somewhere along in during my run at bell labs. I decided to get more commercial so I I took over as general manager of a business that we started as well as a computer science research center and I tried to start to think more about what's involved with actually building products and doing sales and so forth and so we decided added put try to put a bell labs in Silicon Valley near near Stanford and so I came out to do that in late nineteen ninety eight or nine hundred ninety nine and what I ran into I think is a little bit of what we see today. In the valley which was it was just a very frothy time it was before the dot com bubble burst and you know people were funding stuff that probably didn't make a lot of sense but there was a lot of money chasing thing after ideas eyeballs at that time and and I was trying to establish this sort of more traditional research lab and after trying to do it for a year and a half or so I threw in the towel and went off with a colleague I found a small startup in the area that was doing telecommunication system projects and I was the C._E._O.. He was the C._T._O.. And we built that company from the two of us about one hundred forty people and then I we brought in a C._e._o.. To do the GO-TO market side I left <hes> and was going to start another company and then some old bell labs colleagues called me and said we needed adult adult supervision at Google and that's kind of how I ended up at Google. So how did you get interested in technology in the first place so I'm <hes> old enough that we I think we call ourselves baby boomers now but at least when I was a kid that we were part of the what was then known as the sputnik generation which were people who you know the U._S. was responding to the space race with then Soviet Union and there was a lot of interest in science yes and so from a very early age I was interested in science mathematics where your parents engineers or technical folks. No one in my family were technologists. It was just something I was attracted to and and I <hes> <hes> I was reasonably good at an and so I went down that path where did you. I'm just curious. Where did you even find <hes> knowledge back then about how to program? Did you have mentors where they're people helping you were were are you able to find books in library. I mostly found books in libraries and then <hes> when I when I got access when I was in high school I got access to the local universities sixteen twenty machine I got to speak and and spend some time with some of the people actually doing programming and and so they acted as mentors to help me yeah I mean it's one of the things that I think it's easy for all of us to take for granted. Now is how not just sophisticated our programming systems are and how much power is the disposal of your average programmer but how much of the information about how to learn how to do software development how to how much computer science is all out on the Internet publicly available there like all sorts of useful videos explaining it from yes so to elementary like super super high level <hes> sort of perspectives all all the way down to like the the deep nitty gritty research. No I agree. I think the other thing that's changed over the years is access to computing equipment. When I I got access with the first two or three machines they were machines that <hes> you know today would would cost the equivalent of one hundreds of thousands of dollars and they weren't the Sheen's that were in every elementary school every high school every home and so there's just a your exposure availability to compute both learning materials but also just the mechanical machinery the actual computing devices is much easier? Although one thing I have noticed over the years having been a leader in different groups. Over the years the I think the knowledge of the actual computing devices has gotten weaker and weaker and it's interesting in the last few years people have become interested in machine learning and high performance computing again people are rediscovering all the nitty gritties of limited memory cash lines a lot of a lot of the very low level stuff that I think the early developers for instance of people who created UNIX thought ought about how do you fit lots of capability into a very small footprint both both memory wise and computing wise and and we've lost a lot of that where rediscovering it yeah and like one of the things that I've always noticed is yeah we operate on all of these <hes> high level abstractions to do our jobs and the engineers that I found who are sometimes able to do the most extraordinary things or ones who sort of disrespect the or able able to disrespect the abstraction boundaries where they can sort of say okay. This is not working. I don't understand what's going on. I'm not getting the performance I want out of this like there's some weird bug and they just sorta punch through to lower and lower layers. Someone like one of my theories about Jeff Dean like he was a <hes> compiler guy right <hes> by <hes> by his P._H._d.. Work and compiler folks very good at <hes> you know just getting this into 'em view of computer systems and being able to ring extrordinary ordinary performance out of things even though they're not actually writing the optimize bits of the compiler anymore. No I completely agree with that. I having worked with Jeff and his colleagues Sunday they. They both I think we're willing to go very deep into the technology and bypass layers and some of the people I've known for years worked with before like Ken Thomson. Were definitely that ilk as well. I think one of the things that modern software suffers from is I think people sometimes do not spend enough time thinking about what the right abstractions are and how to make them very simple. I think one of the things I've admired about UNIX which you can see in Lenox. Today is a lot of the very low level system calls that were introduced the UNIX have stood the test of now multiple decades because they were very thoughtful about what should be here which shouldn't and they didn't Atalanta complexity or cross cross functional capabilities they they're all pretty clean <hes> interfaces at something a lot of modern software designers don't take the time and thought to do it right and how much of that do you think were the the individuals and their taste and how much of it was just the constraints they were operating under. I mean obviously like a lot of people at the time we're operating under the same constraints and not all of them invented <hes> invented UNIX <hes> but the constraints have to be useful right the constraints are useful but it is true that we live in much more complicated world now and in I think in the period where some of these early time sharing systems were built in a lot of the mini computer work then led to the the personal computer work people will people had glass Tele Types there were twenty four by eighty character fixed with kind of devices for output and very simple input and now everybody expects a lot of graphics a lot of visuals roles. I think just the human computer interface stuff that we do as much more complicated and you're you're right. I think the best systems designers know how to think about simplicity and scale ability but the our world has continued new to get more complicated yeah. It's it's like one of the most interesting tensions I think we have in modern software engineer agree with them so you <hes> you get access to this <hes> machine and local university <hes> like you continue. I need to get better and better program and you go to college you majoring computer science well. I think like many entering freshman at Caltech at least in those days I I wanted to be a physicist. I think probably about ninety percent of the incoming coming class at that time wanted to be at the time was there. That's good motivator and I I had the opportunity meet with him a few times in the years I was there an amazing person but the although his his books books are much easier to read than it is to take the exams associated with the <hes> but I think like many of the entering freshman I discovered. I wasn't smart enough to be a physicist so that got me into math my <hes> I <hes> published paper in a referee Journal has actually when I was a freshman it was a computational chemistry paper that I did with post doc and a one of the faculty members and I had the opportunity to do things like that during that for years the paper was about there. There's an approximation to quantum chemistry for all of them. That's called the heart trie sorry faulk equations and so this was a simulation on at that time a very large i._B._M.. Three seventy or three sixty something or other that we that we ran overnight and and uncalculated a bunch of ground states have different small molecules super cool and some time ago now but super cool <hes> again like we'll get back to this later you already mentioned that <hes> we have this sorta resurgence and <hes> like all of the things that <hes> people were interested in heart forms computing back in the seventies eighties nineties with all of the like large scale machine learning stuff that we're doing right now but <hes> you know I think that the things that you were doing back then are probably like largely transferable to like things that people are doing now. The train machine learning models yeah it's interesting. When I went to Stanford my primary work as a as a graduate student was in numerical modeling I <hes> I my thesis was on <hes> <hes> numerical techniques for partial differential equations food flow and things like that <hes> did a lot of work with linear Algebra and so forth but it was all early high performance computing work and in those days you you know there were control data machines around and create one was starting appear and so forth and so there was a lot of interest in different ways to do abstractions and early high performance computing work and and and it's interesting all that linear Algebra things that I got familiar with then have been rediscovered of course as part of the machine learning revolution that we're having today yeah but I mean it's really really fascinating like like as a as a bunch of my time trying to figure out like what the infrastructure needs to look like to support trading very large scale models and like I a very small way had been you know doing work when I was in Kratz school and Heart performs computing and I it's just remarkable to me like I thought you know funny enough when I took my job at Google in two thousand and three the all of the stuff that I've done in graduate school was like gone forever and like I would never <hes> I'd never see the day where it was useful again and then I'm sitting here twenty nine hundred and surprise surprise relevant no it's true and of course the high-performance computing developed hybrid machines Newmar architectures all kinds of things that are reappearing now machine learning context yeah well you know sort of interesting right <hes> and I love to get your take on this <hes> where at this moment now where there are certain flavors of machine machine learning so this simulation base reinforcement learning stuff that you know is <hes> achieve some fairly spectacular <hes> results that had been publicly disclosed over the past few years like mostly gameplay and then there's reasons stuff and natural language processing on unsupervised learning and in both of these cases like the workloads are just because you have gotten human supervision out of the direct training loop like you don't have to produce a bunch of labeled training data like you're you're sort of reinforcement learning? You're gathering all of your your data to train the model inside of a simulation environment in the unsupervised learning like you just have a large like Internet Corpus data that you're training on and you're trying to <hes> like induced some structure out of it <hes> so they're like absolutely insatiable. In terms of their compute appetite I mean just it's just my boggling and like and at least with the unsupervised models and I think the same thing is true with <hes> with these reinforcement learning <hes> models the more compute that you can throw at them like the better the results you get and so like there's just this real tangible incentive to throw the more compute and and it's happening at exactly the same time where Moore's law is running out of steam and it's not Moore's law. That's the problem is sort of Denard scaling this problem like we can put tens of billions of transistors on a on a die now <hes> we just can't power them all and so like you've like we're we're really are having to like revisit computer architecture and like how do you cool these things like. How do you design their networks like? What does it memory hierarchy? I mean it's just crazy that all of this is relevant again. No I agree and and we're having a obviously a revolution again and computer architecture for all the reasons you point out and you know the John Hennessy Z. and and Patterson just one the Turing Award for basically having thought about computer architectures in different ways than risk written their book and kind of I think they reopened the door or as part of their Turing Award speech and some of the speeches they've given since suggesting it's time the rethink computer architecture now I completely agree with them. The other thing that's been interesting with the insatiable appetite for computing computing and it worries me a little bit. I still believe that universities are the best training ground for people doing computer science work <hes> <hes> you know maybe not everybody should take the time to go get a P._H._d.. But I think having a rigorous program with lots of mathematics and theory and so forth and is not it's more than just programming but I think one of the challenges with the rise this time of machine learning is is I think universities are at a disadvantage because you know the the big platform companies which of course would include Microsoft's facebook Google Amazon and others are the best place to get your hands on lots and lots of computing resources. I think it's very hard for M._I._T.. Or Caltech or you know Stanford to compete with those capabilities and so I think it does call into question. Listen what's the right partnership between universities and these large companies as because I think otherwise we're going to have a lot of people who are deficient in their training as they as they enter the workforce and and try to do novel things I completely agree and it's become a specially obvious I think over the past year where some of this stuff on the very frontier I like the computations become so so large and it's so expensive that like we we even have to think carefully about it inside of like these big tech companies like you just can't you can't have five thousand people <hes> all you know like doing each ten million dollar computation to train their model like you have to sort of think about <hes> like how you WanNa focus these efforts in ways where you can wait where you can get leverage out of your compute infrastructure and I think it's especially art for these universities. I've <hes> joined the advisory board of the Stanford Human Saturday eye institute <hes> and thinking general about like how we can form these partnerships where we can make resources available. I think it's beyond just training though you also really need <hes> sort of dispassionate third parties <hes> you know pushing in interesting new directions like one of the things I really really worry about with the state that we're in a machine. Learning right now is that we have made a bunch of <hes> subjective decisions about how these computations should be performed by virtue of the frameworks that we've built I and so like it's it's sort of like Ma- produce right back in the day <hes> so as soon as you have map reduce its like such a powerful abstraction mechanism that it solves <hes> like a ton of different problems like <hes> <hes> abstracts way like all of this tedium for you know how to massively distributed fashion run run these workloads and the the tool is simple enough and powerful enough where all of a sudden everybody what he wants to try to bend their computation around where it's like a map reduce job and I think we have a little bit of that right now. I mean so like you look at these deep learning algorithms like whether it's tensor flow or Pie torch or like the numerical kernel of all of these things is still cast at great descent and and like because you've chosen <hes> s G._d.. Is the way that you're going to <hes> like do the fitting for the models it just sort of excludes a whole bunch of the things that you might want to do and so like we're we we in a real sense of been pushing people down to this like what has to be a local <hes> like a local OPTIMA <hes> and eat I I I would love to have like just a much much larger pool of people sort of pushing it those assumptions but in order to do it in to compete to show that the new thing is is effective as the whole thing like they have to have the compute resources agree and and I think the other thing which of course is happened more and more with machine learning is not only constrained by the frameworks for all so I think even in the unlabeled case the case where you're not pre labeling data and you're you're doing on surp- unsupervised learning. I thank you have the the risks that if you feed at the wrong sets data you can generate biopsies various kinds nine without even realizing it and it's tricky. There've been a number of publish results on stuff but it's kind of insidious yes so let's go back so tell me a little bit more about this. This experience was starting a company company because that is a very unique thing it is not at all like managing researchers. It's not like you know. Even though Google hadn't on public <hes> when you got there like it was already a reasonably yeah it was four hundred people zero zero. Two hundred forty is like that is a that's something else well you you you learn to tell stories to venture capitalists and now that I'm doing that as fulltime job you get to play the other side of that that drama but you have to think think about. What's the product you WANNA build? What kind of team do you need? How much funding do you need? You have to think about everything and starting as you save from zero. You've got the challenge of you know. You're the you're the janitor when day one starts right and so you have to think about everything you laugh. I did the payroll and the bookkeeping for the first few I think first few months <hes> not that I'm particularly good at that but I can do a little bit of accounting math. Breath well and and they must have been good preparation for what you ultimately had to do do it Google because at some point you were you weren't just an engineering director of like a group of people. You were sort of like the C._E._O.. Of <hes> like an army engineering people in H._R.. Issues You ed finance things you have facilities things I mean I I remember I remember walking into your office. <hes> at one point where you were sort of looking particularly particularly exhausted and I was like what's going on and like you had this spreadsheet in front of you like where you were trying to figure out where everybody was going to sit who was being hired in the next unit of time just probably very far away from writing papers about you know ground state simulations of quantum chemistry. No it's true I well so I I think the role I fell into Goule was I would. I was willing to take on stuff that not not everybody else who's willing to take on so there was a small executive committee that ran Google which I was apart for few year number of years and I I <hes> for a while. We're at a lot about things like facilities and H._R.. Are and and you have to do this young company have to do what you need to do to make successful and part of the challenge and and you saw this google. I'm sure you also saw it in your experience Lincoln. It sounds very hard to go from zero to one hundred forty. It's also very hard to go from a few hundred this several thousand the scaling trying to figure out what works you want to introduce more process and structure that if you introduced too much at it Kinda kills all the <hes> energy and excitement and the team and so forth and so finding a pass through of heavy growth phase of a company is pretty tricky and I I did a lot of that for Google in there earlier. What do you think was the most <hes> challenging thing that you are our problem that you had to solve in those early years? I'd enjoy Google until early two thousand three but I think from when the DOT com bubble burst probably two thousand four or five recruiting was hard but it wasn't crazy like it is is today because there weren't enough kind of growing powerful new companies <hes> forming because of the sort of downdraft that happened because of the DOT com burst. I think today one of the challenges I see what the companies I work work with is just figuring out where crew what to do. One of the things you see from more and more companies is looking at doing engineering away from Silicon Valley and then I think one of the biggest challenges I saw in the early days as ago goal was it it was still very much startup even when I joined it ahead a few hundred employees and there were key areas inside the search product for example where only one or two people actually knew some some of the key things to get things done and so one of the challenges that I found particularly hard was figuring out a way to not disempower and take responsibility away from the people who'd been standing in the in the breach so to speak but building team around them so that you could you could actually have turnover and have organizational stability but she's sort of transitioned from a few kind of superhero type people that know all all these key things to teams that actually own things and that's an enormous cultural change <hes> which which we went through I think we managed to preserve a lot of what was good about the original culture as hard yeah another. I mean just sorta outside looking in like one of the things that you always seem to have a real talent for was <hes> managing the very senior like very most capable engineers and like figuring out how to <hes> can you know let give them the space to do their best work without like sort of having the crush of like all of the outside world and you know sort of friction they can sort of land on you as an engineer. I mean like at one point you had <hes> like almost all of our maybe all of the principal distinguished engineers and fellows reporting into you <hes> and like they're not an easy group of folks to manage. I mean I yeah I know many. I love them like they're. They're fantastic human beings but they're smart they they they have strong opinions they yeah they're they're sometimes their interactions. <hes> you know with one another or are are like with other engineers or sort of like interesting and but somehow or another like you built us environment where all of these folks could like really flourish because at some point like they. I just don't they don't have to have to work for you. They don't have to work at Google. They can do anything that they WANNA do so I think what I tried to do and and I think I was successful. More often I wasn't that was fine. Areas that were important in the company. The different individuals were interested in that's how we you know we <hes> we find a project called Borg internally to do cluster management. There were a group of people I if you look at the work that was done. They're very good. It was very deep. It was ahead of its time but it also was rediscovering <hes> mainframe time sharing but on a cluster brand so was some of it was recycling ideas that were prevalent in the sixties and in the early seventies but finding the right set of people that were interested in that problem motivated by prominent putting together so finding things that were interesting thing we had the challenge of managing walking and global namespace stuff and that was an area that Mike Boroughs was particularly attracted to and did a terrific job with and and I think so it's just picking picking individuals but it didn't take the one is sorta genius like sort of saying like here's this person who can work on these problems and like we're going to go build infrastructure that everybody the else can use those are some of the hardest problems in software engineering like proving that Passos's implemented correctly <hes> in like one of these locking systems <hes> and like Mike is mmh. Maybe the best person in the world like one of the best persons in the world. No I agree and Google heads. It's still has people that are absolutely world class and strong a the the your rights some of them don't mix well together. You have to figure out the right problems and it didn't always work the other thing I often tell young companies that I work with now is Goule also could cheat and and I don't mean that in Ferris Way with the advent of Edwards it started to become you know lots of positive cash flow lots of it gave flexibility the fact that the business was so strong gave us access to resources and capabilities abilities we wouldn't have had and one of the things I always find amusing is when I am working with the very uncomfortable they WanNa talk about creating twenty percent time and I and I often we'll tell them when you have a massively profitable business when you come back and ask me about twenty percent times so I think people need to be more realistic about what constraints you're operating under an at Google. One of the things I did is like we started storage projects. We weren't absolutely sure we would need gene. 'cause we had the flexibility in another company. Wouldn't you wouldn't do that. Most the most of those bets turned out to be good bets but not all well. It's sort of interesting like even twenty percent time <hes> like their things like that that take on these he's <hes> mythological proportions and like I don't ever remember using twenty percent time and it wasn't because I didn't think it was available. It wasn't because my manager wouldn't have supported it was because I was so interested in the work. That was my hundred percent time that I didn't WanNa stop doing that. <hes> go do this other thing I mean it was nice to know that I had it if I wanted to use it but I think a whole lot of people most people did not use it yeah and and and not everybody had an exciting new project. They wanted to start on their own so the thing that I really enjoyed out of Google as it was growing as as fast as it was I was there like I joined. <hes> I guess a few months after you did and two thousand three and then I left the first time in the middle two thousand and seven and the thing that was that there was just extraordinary for me <hes> over that period of time is like because we we were growing so fast and we were solving so many problems for ourselves the first time you got to be this sort of participant and the unfolding of like this really interesting great business in this really interesting great technology allergies stack and you SORTA got to see okay this work. This didn't work and like in a very quick period of time like I felt like I got exposed to like whole bunch of things that I never would have been able to get exposure to if I had been it someplace place. It wasn't growing that fast. I think that's right when I when I left to go do <hes> do add mob to which was already a company. I joined in two thousand seven to run the engineering team when it was like the whole company was about twenty five people I think and like I felt just because I've been able to raise my hand and say oh yeah like I'll go help with the mentorship program. I'll go help set up a faculty summit. I will go <hes> like you need. Someone wanted go due diligence on like an M._a.. Thing that we're doing like none of which I was qualified to do when I raise my hand but because else was there who was raising their end to do it like I got all of this experience and when I went to add mob it was like okay like I'm like there's still a whole bunch of stuff. I need to learn but at least I'm confident in like a big enough. Settle things where I can. You know I can have some Modicum of comfort that I'm not going to screw everything you can learn a lot and you get a lot of <hes> advancement and opportunities to do different things right especial time in many companies so so you were at Google for how long you left him twenty eleven evans you were there are eight and a half years okay yeah and so how what was the biggest team that you had so you were up to five six thousand people <hes> yes probably a little bit north is six thousand it <hes> Google <hes> broken up into division product divisions they call product areas and I think at one point I had a masked what her today for five of their product areas so let's talk about the transition to venture capital so you've been doing this for. I guess almost eight years now close eight years <hes> and so what what made you you could have done anything you could've stayed at Google. You could've <hes> like gone to another company and Donna similar everything you could have started a company. You've you retire you could've you could basically whatever yeah I think when I look back at my career so I thought one one of the challenges of the role all that I had at Google is I was unsure what I could do. In another company that would wouldn't feel like a step down and and it's not that I'm in love with a particular title or particular role but it there aren't a lot of Google's growth phase out there I think they're probably you know small number but they're very few and far between and so I didn't see how to repeat that <hes> and and I think one of the things have gotten better at over the last ten or fifteen years is mentoring and spending time with people and helping them think through their problems and you know their challenges and so forth and it felt like like I could do that as a board member as a mentor to a bunch of young companies and and so for me some of its would people I think called giving back but some you know some of it is I think at this stage of my career. I'm probably better as a coach than as a player yeah I mean I remember some of the best <hes> advice I've ever received has been from. You and I remember just vividly this <hes> one sort of critical moment in my own career so this is when I was thinking about leaving Google to go to add mob I chatted with a few companies <hes> like I had chatted with Omar. Who's I guess now one of your partners that Sequoia Koya <hes> who is the founder and C._E._o.? Of Asthma and <hes> I remember I asked You for meeting which <hes> you were always <hes> generous enough to take when you much much busier easier than I was. I remember coming into the room and I <hes> I was like <hes> very reluctantly admitting <hes> that it's like oh I've been out talking to these companies and like I'm thinking about leaving and you already already knew because somebody had <hes> his name I will not name. I think I know who yes like like a background check. I'm guessing and so but you gave me the best advice. You were like. Okay like here's the vice I'm GONNA give you with my google hat on <hes>. which is you know what whatever that was <hes> and then here's you know the advice that I'm GonNa give you with <hes> without the Google hat on which was <hes> like just super are helpful to have both of those perspectives and making that decision which would really hard got a hard time leaving <hes> because it was really it was a great company and I I had so many friends there and I felt but <hes> so grateful for the opportunity that I'd gotten which I was I you know I think a lot of it was lucked? There's no way that there's a lot of luck in many outcomes in life as a lilac just extraordinary ordinary amounts of it <hes> but you know I like that advice you game. He was like one of the is and it was certainly like a pivotal moment like the whole my experience with Atma like without that I wouldn't have been able to get the role that I battling Dan without the role that linked in. I wouldn't be sitting ears C._T._O.. Microsoft and so you know I you know I'm glad that you're out there. <hes> like giving other people <hes> this really good advice <hes> so what made you decide that like this is sort of thing. That's worth your time because you were doing it even before it was like officially your job is <hes> like a venture capitalists. You didn't have to take at that meeting that day or like any other times you know because I I was I was way below you in the in the in the Org <hes> and and you weren't just doing it for me. You were doing it for a bunch other people so and maybe this is one of the things I've I've tried to do as a leader I <hes> I think most you know when you're employed by a company. You're employed by Google goal now. I'm employed by sequoia capital. You have to have a loyalty to your employer but I also think as a as a leader inside of any organization you also have to be authentic and when you have to <hes> if if somebody asks you for advice they don't want <hes> the company line they they want real advice and so what I what I've always done. The last many years design will give you my advice as a leader inside a company but then I will also give you my advice as an individual and I think to me that's been one of the things that I think uh has bonded people to be over the years because they feel like they're not getting a bunch of Political Mumbo jumbo <hes> which unfortunately I think particularly folks in large corporations. I've known a number they they can only we talk in the party line mode and they never get out of it and I it makes them <hes> appear even if it's not true as as phony and so I think part of it's just being genuine authentic. When you talk to people it's it's sorta scared to do because when I was running <hes> running engineering and operations linked in which grew over the course of you know the six years that I was doing the job from a couple hundred people to about three thousand I took this key from you that I was going to try to be authentic as possible when someone came to me like they were struggling with a problem and <hes> like trying to figure out what the next step was for them and like I would do almost exactly the same thing that you did for me and like if they were contemplating job offer it's like here all the many reasons why <hes> I would like you to stay because we really need you here and you know we walk through the whole thing and then I would <hes> and then I would give them you know oh my unsolicited advice and sometimes it would be like hey? I don't think that this is like based on what I know about you and what you told me about your aspirations. I don't think that this is a good move for you and sometimes I would tell people's like this isn't a bad option and like you are you are now faced with a tough choice like I think it's a you've you've got a good option here. You've got a good option there and and the thing that I found though like even like this horrifying thing like when you are are leading <hes> you know a group people and like you and in a very <hes> sort of very concrete way or dependent on them to be able to achieve all of the things that you know you're trying to get your company to achieve but I found like having those conversations like I think because people believe that I had a genuine interest than like in their success and their happiness <hes> like I wound up being able to hold onto a bunch of people like way longer than I would have otherwise that's right right but it was hard to do <hes> because it feels very scary yes risky. It feels risky. I I understand I I think the other thing which I saw it Aghoul and I suspect you've seen in your ear arc to is Goule hired a lot of very bright kind of new grads or there was there first or second job and it was fairly common for people after a few years to Kinda wonder what the world looks like outside of you know the particular confines a mountain view at the time and that's not irrational for a young person <hes> and and on the other hand Google wanted to retain those people and that there were some difficult challenges that yeah so what's what are the most interesting things that you're seeing in venture now so like it's it is an exciting time <hes> right now because there's a lot of venture capital all out there. It's never been easier to start a technology company because you have open source you have all this cloud infrastructure. You have like an increasingly powerful set of capabilities small teams accomplish big things and like you're at sequoia which is like one of the top venture capital firms in the in the world so like what's what's interesting right now well. There's clearly a lot of interest in <hes> software around machine learning YEP. I think that there there's a bunch of companies trying to create tooling or do vertical applications. I think there aren't many companies proposing to do platforms because you've got ten pie torch and other things in them in the market from companies that have obviously much larger resources than you can mount from startup but the sort of machine learning software and getting machine learning that's usable indigestible by a broad community is very hard to do and I think there there's some interesting ideas and companies around that there's a lot of interest in <hes> processor technology both for machine learning but also starting to see some companies that are talking about rethinking moored server processors more generally and so forth and so I think there's a lot of that that those are harder companies. I think for venture capital just because it requires hundreds and millions of dollars estimate rather than you know tens of millions of dollars investment so I think but I see interest in that area <hes> there's a one of interest in quantum computing. which is you know people will debate whether it's about to go commercial or whether it's still going to be researched for a few more years? It feels to me like we're on the cusp of a bunch of things right now. In that area those are those are very interesting and then they're interesting companies in storage networking and so forth but I think the big things have been processors machine learning and and then quantum are areas that I think are particularly interesting and the processor trend friend aside from the <hes> machine learning stuff like we're seeing with distributed systems right now that like architecturally like one way to compose these things now is <hes> is streams and stream processors <hes> which are going to have different compete requirements than normal sorts of processors. There's also like this interesting thing where you should reach your sort of power saturation point with <hes> with transistors sisters for logic but you haven't yet for memory cells yeah. I think there's trade offs now that people are rethinking about between actual logic type processing versus memory. What kind of embedded memory do you want? What kind of memory structures there's obviously new kinds of memory coming into the market that don't require de Ram refreshes voter faster that that's another area that may be interesting? I think the other thing thing which strikes me as a big challenge people think about processors themselves as you know there's been some fascinating were kind of security side and very scary people did not think through all the risks with speculative execution and on the other hand. If you throw speculative execution out <hes> you hurt performance a lot and so I think there are people trying to think about how do you think more from first principles about with the security risks are are in processor design so that because when you when you admit security weaknesses at the very bottom layer of the hardware it's pretty hard to defend against and <hes> it's scary in new ways right and so I think there there are a lot of interesting things happening in and around that area yeah are you. Are you seeing stuff with the <hes> in the IOT space because I the processors they're like still have a couple of generations of real Moore's law left in on them so we're we're saying a bunch of companies around <hes> there are a lot of people looking at processors for the edge where they can do some inference. Maybe a little bit of training I think and and Dan very low cost kind of microcontroller level designs and so forth. There's a number of interesting new ideas and companies in that area. I'm when I've looked at Iot. I've mostly looked at things related industrial iot because because the I think consumer Iot has been tricky for variety of reasons one is often driven by brand and consumer reach which I think advantages companies like apple and others <hes> and I think the other the thing is is smartphones or two good doing a lot of different things and so the killer APPs for the consumer. Not I think has been pretty limited so far personal opinion but there you go yeah I mean we we can certainly see that the Industrial Iot I._T.'s stuff like the applications. They're like rich and like there's an enormous amount of opportunity there <hes> I I think we sort of see the world and in similar ways yeah no it's consumer consumer Iot the I think more and more devices are connected and have some ability to respond to command and so forth and we'll see a proliferation of that but special use cases I think are they aren't enough interesting use cases as I talked to people that have Alexa devices or you know the Goule home devices and so forth and they use them to set alarms and timers and play certain kinds of music and so forth and then they rapidly seem to run out of the things things I can do with them. The thing that I think is a little bit interesting though is that the capability in these devices already <hes> like in both hardware and the software is much higher than what we're using it for absolutely so just just today <hes> proof of concept thing like I'm. I'm building a A._I.. Coffee Machine Right now <hes> which probably sounds weirder hitter than it actually is but like the ideas. Can you build a consumer appliance from scratch like as an individual although like one with slightly more resources than average individual <hes> but like can you build. Can you build a device that has like a modern A._i.. Power user experience in it is like this thing we'll have no buttons no displays and it will have a camera speaker in a microphone and so like when you walk up to it and like it knows that you're paying attention to it using very straightforward computer vision models it will say to you. Can I make you a cup of coffee and it will be able to recognize who you are and remember Knbr your preferences and <hes> no that's an entirely you know entirely doable mode of like building building a user interface on consumer device right now and it's it's going to be not too terribly expensive in the in the not-too-distant future like I'm going to be able to do this with thirty bucks worth of <hes> worth of electronics and like the price of that's going down to two over the next few years. I would imagine I think I think you'll see that in a lot of consumer devices but they'll be very limited narrow use case so <hes> I just I'm. I'm just super precise about about what's possible. There's I want to get people inspired. The do more I think human interfaces that our voice driven Kevin and and have some aspect computer vision is clearly where things are going yeah. It's awesome well. Thank you so much for taking the time to talk with US Today Bill. It's been a pleasure. It's been my pleasure to be here. Thank you for again for the invitation awesome <music> well. We hope you enjoyed Kevin's interview with Bill Coren so Kevin one of the really interesting things that you in but we're talking about is kind of how the woods you know what was all this kind of new again and how the tech that was the problems that we were trying to solve in the seventies and eighties and even the nineties are now kind of coming back in vogue again. Why do you you think that it is that those problems are still relevant and we're still going back and kind of revisiting some of those ideas yeah? It's amazing to me. How cyclical technology is a business like I've I've been coating since I'm twelve? I'm forty-seven now so you know thirty five years ish of <hes> like paying very close attention to what's happening in computing and like just inside of like that thirty five years like there have been multiple cycles where you'll have this intense enthusiasm for thing and then it will sort of fall a bit out of fashion and then the next thing comes in and you'll sort of forget temporarily all about the <hes> the old stuff. I think these older older older technologies that pop back up. It's almost a puzzle y. They went out of fashion in the first place. It's like you look at high-performance Computing <hes> for instance we were building in the seventies. Eighties nineties is like these very sort of idiosyncratic supercomputers and very high performance machines that all were different in <hes> in little ways so like they had a good idea about how to do the memory hierarchy Turkey are good idea about how to do networking or good idea about how to split the computation across a bunch of different processors and the thing that caused them to go out of fashion is like there was this sort of catalyst <hes> ah driven by the rapid growth of the Internet to sort of standardize your computer architectures on commodity abused commodity memory commodity networks like commodity everything and so like you just sort of created did it massive scale like large large amounts of compute where all of the like individual units compute looked exactly the same and we're built as cheaply as possible and like that works really well for <hes> you know sort of the problems that we have for the first twenty years or so so <hes> like the commercial explosion of the Internet what we're seeing right now is like the problems are different again but like different in the same way that they were <hes> like a bunch of years ago and so like now we are <hes> we're digging back up all of that good work that folks did <hes> a few decades ago and are realizing like how valuable it still is in these new contacts <hes> it's really fine because I I spent a bunch of the early parts of my career thinking about these things like I did an internship at the National Center for supercomputing applications like where we <hes> like when I was there we had just taken delivery of this machine called the <hes> see 'em fi from a company call thinking machines founded they buy a famous <hes> computer scientists Danny Hillis who <hes> like. I hope we will get to come on this. Show at some point like Danny's like super awesome human being like just like maybe the the most brilliant mad scientists. I've <hes> I've ever met <hes> loved to any but anyway this machine was just ethically big <hes> and like ethically cool in and just sort of it was a challenge to program this thing but like when you could harness all of its power it could do miraculous things and I never in my life would have thought that all of the stuff that I did back in the nineties was going to be relevant again one day <hes> so it's really <hes> I'm glad that technology has these cycles <hes> because it's almost like I get to do two things at once sort of be nostalgic about <hes> like all of this cool old stuff and like I get a set of techniques to solve of a set of problems that are very relevant today I love it. No that's so cool to be able to revisit the past but also use the advantages that we have now in solving this problems that's great and the the cycles are like can be really long like the other thing thing to like. I think is we're thinking about a I right now and some of the disruptive effects that it can potentially have like we're learning lessons <hes> even from the industrial revolution which is like a couple of decades decades ago. It's like centuries ago. No that so Shula hadn't even thought about but you're right. I mean these cycles can be really long and we can learn lessons from them or hopefully we can right yeah so the the message for the young ones is like pay attention to history of very very important.

Google engineer Microsoft bill Caltech bell labs Kevin Scott sequoia Bill Corum twitter Bill Coren New York Times Stanford executive
S2E2: How I Became CMO of Sequoia Capital with Blair Shane

The New School with Christine Hong

36:20 min | 7 months ago

S2E2: How I Became CMO of Sequoia Capital with Blair Shane

"I advise people to say well. You regret not trying this next job. If you work hard and have done a good job you can typically go back to your old job or employer. You can always go backwards that the only way to go forward is too weak new school. This is the new school with your host Christine Welcome to new kinds of school where we talk about career paths. You don't normally get to hear about in the classroom every episode. I talked to someone with an interesting life path and learn about how they got to where they are today. Hey guys happy Monday. I'm your host Christine Hong in gun. Amazing guests for you today. I'm so honored. She agreed to be on our show. Blair Shane has been the CMO of sequoia capital want a top venture capital firms. Sandra Business School and Cal Academy of Science. I've always wondered what it's like to be on top of the career ladder a C. Suite executive a large successful company and today she explains what that's like episode Blair goes over. What you think's a good her path to becoming a CMO and gives advice on how to grow brands for we start. I just wanted to drop a note at his interview was recorded before the outbreak of nineteen in the US and does reflect pre quarantine conditions Blair. Thank you so much for being on the show. I really appreciate you taking the time today. It's an honor. I think that this podcast team will be so helpful to so many people. I guess I am interested in how you even got into marketing. A career what about appeal to when you started you know. It's a really good question. And to be honest. I was just drawn to running and growing businesses. My first marketing job after graduate school was in package goods. I was actually trained at General Mills. That's the place that does all of the kids cereals so I was. I put on the team running total cereal and then I moved to developing a Yo play yogurt products and then I actually help. Start our vending and convenience store business or things like checks Maksim bugles and fruit snacks and marketing. General Mills was defined as running a fifty million dollar business or brand like total and so my core responsibilities included everything from advertising to packaging to product development even nutrition and then forecasting and pricing and so given that start. I think of marketing as go to market. Not just with I think a lot of people think of as just branding or PR or even demand. Gen in the valley. How did you end up at General Mills where you just looking for a marketing position at the time? You know. It's really a question I wasn't I was looking to run a business. So when I was at Stanford Business School I thought about leaving to start my own business. I interviewed there before I graduated and what I loved about it. Is You had the ability to run a business within with the safety net of a big company it literally just happened that at general mills running. Business was quintessential marketing. That's how I ended up doing marketing. Oh okay in. That became your focus. It did exactly. Why did you leave? General How did you decide what to do next as a really good question so my husband and I went to different graduate schools and so we ended up in Minneapolis. Which is what General Mills is. He's also from the East Coast and I'm from the West Coast and we wanted to start our lives together and kind of a neutral place but about three years. Rick Who's an investment banker? He was working at a company called Piper. Jaffray got a great opportunity to do banking and research and San Francisco and my family is from San Francisco and Rick's families from Hartford Connecticut. And Talk to tell you the truth. There's just a lot more opportunity in the bay area for dual career couple and we do that at some point. We wanted to have kids and it would be really nice if we were both working to have family nearby help out that makes a Lotta said. Why did you decide to stay in marketing? Instead of doing your own business at the time I have to admit I was just risk averse. I actually regret it's the one thing my business career that I regret. Not Training for kids was starting my own business. I just decided to stay because after running those brands I got so much great opportunities to when I came back to the Valley I was able to get great very big marketing jobs at a couple of startups and then from there I was able to get a great job at Charles Schwab so it just fed on each other and I think maybe you know at the point where I wanted to become a mom being co founder and a new mom at the same time as just a heavy left. What do you think makes a good marketer? So at the end of the day marketing is it a go to market. It's about how you acquire customers and then build loyalty so a few things can really help. Make you a good marketer. I think the first and most important thing is understanding the customer Mitt sound so basic but market research and really honing in to that customer. Pain point the first thing that every marketer should understand the second thing is building a product that meets that customer pain and believe in it with all your soul. Go to the ends of the Earth to improve your product. So listening and empathy skills and then have a balance of creative and analytical skills to both improve that product for organic growth and then when you market meaning you promote or you share messaging to try to attract new customers. It's important that you both try novel methods at the creative skill but then you also analyze the results so that you can hone that strategy and put more dollars towards the things that are working. I'm the last thing I'll say for any rules. Being really good manager and leader so the end of the day marketing like every other business function as about leading teams and helping to set direction and then recruiting and hiring. The best people are also critical skulls. Yet find the work are skills. Needed differ for different types of businesses. Or is it pretty similar? I think it does different. Some people believe that you use the same playbook over again. I believe the best marketers are passionate about connecting the product or service with their target audience and every product conservatives in every target audience differ. So I believe that that playbook should vary you know there's a few skills that span both B. to B. and B. Two C. You like brand and positioning NPR. But the weight of the other things should various differ B2b requires better content marketing and analysts relation skills or things like account based marketing. Where if you're running a consumer business or product you're gonNA heavy up on brand and social. The list of the levers is I would probably say seventy percent the same but depending on where you are in the stage of Your Business and what your audience is. You may play them up or down. I'm actually kind of curious. So based on these things you look. You have certain interview questions you prefer. It's so funny. I actually didn't article about this. I acquire so I always like to ask someone. They failed and what they did about it. Or you know. What's Your Development Area? What's your biggest weakness mostly because everybody's human has a strength. I think the other thing is what you WANNA do. And five or ten years and seeing how people answer that I think is really compelling as well just to see what the job you're offering is aligned. In some way to helping them achieve their dream I always ask the question of. What do you need from a manager to help make you successful? What do you look for and then I just asked him to describe something. They're most proud of and why? Yeah those are really good questions. Was there any answers over to the best? Interviewees are those who are willing to share with the person hiring them what they most want in the world's what could help them get there and maybe what they're afraid of because we spend eighty percent of our days at the office with our co workers and trying to achieve really big meaningful work and so getting to that level is pretty important if you choose to have a lean team of star is all working together to achieve a common goal will lose the path the Cmo like you always think you would become chief exact one day you know. I never really if people ask me what I would want to do in my life. It's still the same three things it's to be a CEO or actually to be a peace negotiator so CMO is not anymore there but CMO is a way to achieve actually all three of those things so in many of my roles in involved significant amount of influence management. Both with the people that I worked with and the various targeted audiences that I was trying to approach. You're always teaching as a manager or the best managers teach and like I said my approach to marketing is the more traditional product price promotion placement ones. It's just how you run a business. But in general I followed my passion and my husband gave me some of the best work advice about you know my career. Probably about fifteen years ago when he was saying you're gonNA regret not trying and so basically now. I advise people to say. Will you regret not trying this next job if you work hard and have done a good job can typically go back to your old job or employer right? Rarely will they not hire you in so just never regret not trying because typically if you've done a good job you can always go backwards but the only way to go forward is to leak? I was wondering if to jump to chief executives if you own any different than a normal promotion. It didn't because I think I've always been driven to Kinda change the world and make it better. I mean even my essays to Business School were actually about reforming the Department of Education. I just thought I'd always work my way up for a for profit company and then lateral over. I tried to do the best job that I could. I mean I think as you progress in your career you should always listen more. It's kind of counter intuitive. But listen more coach more. Tell people less what to do and really inspire greatness within your team. I think those were the biggest things and I think the other things that really matters is chief EXAC helping your team set a clear vision and then focus to achieve it cool next year kind of like to dive into like the peculiar brands. You've built from scratch or rebooted. How did you figure out the strategy for these brands? So it's interesting in the last fifteen years or so of my career. I've spent my time helping great brands. Not Rest on their laurels and to modernize them. So somehow I've been identified as a change agent who could help move the California Academy of Sciences which is the Museum of Natural History in San Francisco or Stanford or even sequoia push forward so the number one thing to do in those rules is to really understand what is essential to the culture to the brand the business that you must hold onto for dear life and protected. The second thing is to figure out what you need to cut off. What is no longer serving business or brand? Well and really be clear about what those things are literally cut it off like you would appendage and then the third part of that is being super creative and brainstorm what you need to do a modernized the brand and then add that to it. So it's really a three prong process of holding on for dear life to what matters letting go of what doesn't serve you and then make the leap to try some new things to modernize brand early in my career when I worked on New Products Like Yo Pay Yogurt. Key Lime Pie flavor or the fruit snacks variation. It was more of traditional. Identifying customer needs building the product and then building advertising and marketing to support it and each case different each and every time like I said earlier on. There's not one playbook. Yeah that's what I figured. Surely curious about when you join cowed Kademi Science. Yeah I'll did you decide what to do when you join. So I joined about fourteen months before the relaunch and we didn't have anything in place and so lot had to do with building the basics of the brand and the way finding and the pricing and things of that nature and then the number one kind of innovative thing that we did as a lot of people said Oh people will just come and I took the approach is saying no the first moment the first day that first year of this new museum needs to signal that it's new and also need to signal that there's more demand than supply because then that will create a halo so that people will want to come to the museum for years after the opening so I think the biggest innovation was looking at the opening like a true commercial product launch and served the museum really. Well it was hard to manage the crowds but it definitely helps drive membership and utilization of museum for a very long time which was great. We held on to things like the penguins are the steinhardt aquarium but we also really reinforce new features like the rainforest or instead of doing fixed pricing we did variable pricing for the first time for museum and created things like nightlife which was the program for people. Twenty one to thirty who typically are museums target but it was able to cultivate the next generation. I museum goers yeah I really wanted to talk to you about nightlife. Actually how did you think of? It are designed it was really a business metric. Most of the is business was from membership which was typically parents with kids. And that's great and all but you really need to cultivate those people well before their parents with children and so also nightlife was a way to leverage the museums footprints and capital in the evening which typically wasn't used and so we just created a model and a product operating that would attract people to come with their friends every Thursday night. And the Nice thing is that now. That's been in place for well over ten years now. All of this folks at that age are now parents with kids. Do now are coming. So it's a nice full life cycle at the museum now offers yeah. I'm honestly so impressed by that. Because I remember interning in San Francisco in two thousand fourteen and it was like the ultimate date spot on Aga ever thought of to go and be like Oh chicken night live. The new seemed like kind of lake sophisticated. Twenty-one close and there's alcohol the brand that we worked on there we were combining the words hip and intellect. There weren't really anything in the city. Where if you were kind of a doric like me. You could go and have fun. We called it this hip intellect and it worked which is nice. Yeah so my friends were twenty at the time so we really literally talking about using fake. Id's to get into nightlife another. GonNa work though. But anyways how did you approach when you join Stanford Business School when you're seem what was your Shijie there? I'm curious you know it's really not that different Stanford's brand a school is to change lives. Change organizations changed the world and what we were doing things. That's actually pretty modern and novel for our business school but the manifestation of it was sometimes old kind of Fuddy duddy so we updated the brand and actually we had the opportunity to launch. They'll night had given money to launch. The new buildings called the Knight Management Center and much like the Academy we use that opening launch to also launched the brand and in doing so that actually became the trigger to do things like update the alumni magazine and launched new entrepreneurial offerings and other markets. How do you decide how to split the budget? Or what the focus on like what will make the most impact you know. I would say in every great marketing strategy. You have to be able to really measure. Are you getting new customers? I think that's the first thing. So how do you measure your customer acquisition? And before that it's how do you measure your awareness? And so certainly having a keen understanding of what you are based awareness. Metric is and then how it's evolving. I think secondly. How do you acquire new customers? But then thirdly is there turn in your customer base in your experience your product experiences service experience. Are you able to keep them? And then I think for man. It's how do you drive loyalty? So you may have heard of things like net promoter score because in general you WanNa Leverage your customer base to drive new customers to refer them and I think the last two things that I would look at our reputation management because that will be your baseline awareness inbetween product news and the last thing that people rarely think of is. Do people want to come work for you? A lot of companies don't think of marketing to their employees or marketing to prospective employees in the world of technology. The number one competitive advantage advantages that people who work for you and it also helps lead to speed to market and so if you don't have a strong employer brand it ends up being very hard to have a strong customer rant. Yeah that makes sense because you wanNA future employees in the PR right. I mean there's so much competition for talent. You need to find a way to distinctively attract talent who want to help build your business were. They'll just go somewhere else. I guess for Cal Academy of Science. You can see initiatives bring in people buying tickets I imagine for Stanford Business School you can save. Initiative gets more people apply to business school there yet. How did you measure success for Sequoia capital? It's a quietly probably only make about thirty investments a year but at the end of the day we don't want to miss looking at a single founder or new company and so the key there was twofold. I think I at least for me. My focus was on our existing founders. How do I make them? And their companies most successful and the reason for that. Is there the best referral source? So that's an example. Where taking care of your customers is still important. Because at the end of the day you know from the work you do. If you're going to look for funding for your New Business. Who are you going to ask for their advice? Fellow founders so. I really focused on products and programming. That would help our founders in their succeed and in doing so at that would lead to new business. Russ I think the second thing is making sure to modernize the brand and the messaging of sequoia so that we would get a chance to look at every new company. I feel like I would fail if there was a great new company aware. Our investors didn't get chance to talk to the founders. So making us feel approachable and also helpful to really. Early stage founders. 'cause sequoia prides itself of always being in what we call the pre seed and seed business. And then working with those super. Early Company is all the way through IPO and beyond so we measured it on the number of seed stage companies that wanted to talk to us even before they may be even needed funding. How did you achieve goal once making sure? The existing founders were supported. I mean it was actually two very different ways. One is in what I would call the spoke help. How could me or the investors helped them and their companies with individual problem solving or growth opportunities. So that could be helping them with. Launched helping them in a crisis situation helping them higher. That was first and that's obviously very specialized to each and company and then the other way was how am I eighteen? Much more scalable ways that had to do with connecting founders with founders and building community. There's a few as sequoias done that. One is through events so we have an event called base camp where we take all of our founders camping or it really gives founders and opportunity to reflect in connect with each other and certainly we bring in great speakers and deliver great content and then from there. We started what I would call founder boot camps. A program called aunt with stands for amplify mobilize and propel it's like a ten week intensive where our founders really young companies that seed and series as companies come together and they meet every Thursday for four hours in the evening going through critical business building concept and then they get to connect with each other at the end of the day. Most founders have the skills that need they just need the support of a great network to help them solve problems in the moment to those were a couple of ways that we built loyalty either very specific or building community interesting. Is that how you try to stand out from other brands? Those are two ways that we really do. Try to stand out. I think the other way is just. We have a very small dedicated team. That's all in we think of ourselves partner versus an investor and will stand by you through each stage of the journey and we also have expertise at each stage of the journey as it really does vary depending on where you're at for goal to. You're saying you want to make sure no companies that were awesome like didn't apply to quite. You're like one atop the companies. Do you actually have trouble with? I would say we have trouble in that. People may not want to come meet with us before they feel like. They're ready because they really in many cases. May WanNa work with US. But they feel like they want to be perfect and that in fact is the worst thing because we can actually be most helpful when companies are still rough around the edges. And I don't think it had anything to do with us. Sides the fact that a founder sees brands like airbnb or dropbox or Google. And they think Oh. I'm not done yet. But those companies. Were you know two or three people in our offices when they first started so. I think it's telling those stories that it's never too soon to start with sequoia and then also being helpful to them even prior to going into business with those companies that makes sense. I don't think I would even think of talking to sequoia unless I had at least a million users or something and that's detrimental to our business to because we don't want you to wait that long because we can probably help you get to those million users. So when's a good time? So what stage? I think. Obviously it depends. You don't have to have product market fit yet. You have to have a compelling market size and a great team ambition and so that's all important but know that we can help with product market fit and know that we can help with early scaling. Well my podcast is a very new breads any marketing advice for me. That's such a good question. I think the first thing that I was noticing his get all your guests to promote their episodes. I think that that's a really important thing. Because if you think of the podcast world there's so many right it's competing and so I would make a specific ask of your guests to share it with the people who would find the new school valuable and I think the last thing is I would just get on the list. So when I google best podcast for creative elements or college students or up and comers so I would identify the managers of some of those lists and get on them and then just make sure that you're not shy about asking those of us who want you to be successful to to sing. Your praises does such a great idea. I would just make sure that people know you exist. And that they're advocating for you back to being CMO you've been a three companies now. We're curious days. You know what I love about. Marketing is every day is so different in varied -ness of it is the thing that makes it so fun. At Sequoia it could have been the beginning of the day I could be working with founders. At Our boot Camp I could be advising them on go to market or I could be working with coil limited partner or a member of my team helping them with their career so no day was the same but I think every day tied to our business schools whether it was attracting the next generation of founders helping them be most successful serving our limited partners or growing our employees so I think every executive should take a look at how they're spending their time and it should somehow be tied to the primary business objectives built specially if something like marketing. It's pretty subjective and unpredictable. What will work some time? So how do you evaluate what you want to go with yeah? I think you're reinforcing that marketing planning you have to approach in a disciplined way. And if you do it makes these choices pretty easy. It works the majority of the time. I think the key is one to be clear on what your business objectives are to focus on a few things that matter and then three making sure that at least this is gonNA sound counterintuitive. That twenty percent of Your Plan. Initiatives and dollars are net new ideas. Which means that you actually have to cut twenty percent out of the existing because you can't make a hundred twenty so eighty percent can be things that are tried and true that are working but twenty to thirty percent half to be net new ideas and then you can measure each one of them. I think people fail when they have too many objectives and doing too many things. I love that when I read that I forget which article but you're saying every year yesterday team mate twenty percent of their budget and project on your own or were the come from. I don't know where it came up with that I must've learned it from a mentor. Along the way I think you know it may have been in my days at Charles Schwab. We had to do some cost cutting and there was just a forced cost cutting of twenty percent or thirty percent and carry that forward to the good years where it wasn't forced and I thought Oh this would be a really good exercise to just trim even things that are working well but they're not working as well as the other things to make room for new ideas. Otherwise you're just piling new ideas on top of old lines and people don't have infinite bandwidth so I think it probably came from just pure cost cutting and I figured out a way to turn it in to create new ideas. Could you kind of walk? Through example of a business call and then the eighty percent you kept may be that was working at twenty percent you added. That was new. The immediate one that comes to mind is the academy went from fixed pricing variable pricing. A little bit less of what you're asking for but I think it was a big monumental mindshift for museum to go to variable pricing based on just changing prices. That's maybe more scary. One versus the eighty twenty was the goal increase revenue. The goal was increased revenue and to make sure we were capturing the right price the right time for the customer versus having this set price for all the same people on the same day in time at the museum it makes sense right. The reason why no ticket pricing work so well or you have different prices for movies at different times. I mean I love Dr Plans in every organization that I mentioned that you just aren't pushing organization forward. If you don't allow the team to dream on what could be better. I was wondering what's like managing a team like that. Because you have all these people are using new ideas at you. And how do you even pick which creative strategy to go visit instinct? And how do you make the people who are like Kinda rejected? Feel better. Yeah I mean I think it's two different questions in terms of like how you manage the entire team. That's easier question from a creative strategy standpoint. It always has to start with your objective. Does it tie to it? And then is the message. Relevant but even more than relevant isn't compelling in the last thing is is it different? Is it differentiated and I learned these three things awhile back from. There's a really good firm called Astro partners that works in the Consumer Space. But the different one is really important. When you evaluate at creative strategy again does it tied at the business objective and is it relevant compelling and then different and then to answer your question about what's a strategy for managing entire team? I would say the first thing is you have to spend time on hiring well recruiting and hiring takes time. The second thing is having really clear roles and responsibilities so that people can and drive for impact without stepping on each other on the last thing is just providing clear direction but then that coaching versus micromanaging is also super important. Very separate roles. I've been there where the roles were not define clearly nothing. You just WANNA do both. If it's the fine for you backley. Anybody who's ambitious working but it's not always the best thing for the team. I never the best thing for the team. There aren't clear roles and responsibilities established unique particularly advice for others who wanted to become a CMO. One day we'll just in general even if you don't want to be a CMO but even founding your own business just don't ever regret not trying that's the first one you can tell that core precept the second thing related to becoming CMO have fun with it. You Know Flex your creativity Andrew Analytical skills you can do both and then. The third thing is do your homework and be disciplined. I think that is important because the chief marketing officer is meant to drive revenue than so that disciplined approach is really important in the last thing I would say is. Make sure it's what you want. And how do you do that by inviting a few people like me a coffee and I would say that's with any job that you do especially for the new school podcast? I would say the number one thing for your listeners is known also should ever regret inviting someone with job that they may want some day out for coffee. What's next for you now that you just a quick? Yeah you know. That is very very good question in general. I want a big job. That makes a difference so probably a big operator job. I don't know exactly what yet but it will somehow be tied to being a CEO. Being teacher being a peace negotiator being job making a difference. What's the most difficult decision? You had to make to fulfill your destiny. Oh probably delaying being with wreck my husband for two years so we decided to go to business. School part wasn't the original plan but it worked out in the end. Oh then you both had a chance to go to business school okay. Yeah didn't end up going where he was. Because I decided to go to Stanford that was a really really hard choice but I was really young and didn't feel like as much as I loved. Rick I could just move for him at twenty four so it was a hard decision but we figured it out and he believes in me a ton I believe in him. We're a good team so it all worked out. Did you find business? Hopeful to find your Makino from me. I did because I was a history major and I had worked in finance after and I also kind of fueled my entrepreneurial spirit by starting a nonprofit but business. School did a couple things for me. It gave me all the base skills that I didn't. Have you know the operations the financial analysis even the marketing skills but also is to so many other career possibilities much like your podcast does folks so it was definitely worth it for. Me Is their biggest mistake. You feel like you've made in your career actually would think I would learn from my mistakes that I've made it a couple of times. It may sound general. But I'm sure many of you can relate to it which is my biggest mistake is taking too much accountability for an interpersonal dynamic at work and then not being political off to fix it if that makes sense so my number one advice for folks who are political situation is similar to the clear roles and responsibilities certainly be self aware and be accountable for European but also be mindful of the other dynamics at play. So do you wish your lesson moment or more? I think I wish that I realized that it was not mind. Solve that. In difficult work dynamics it requires all the people involved to be accountable to help solve and sometimes that's just tough. Yes harder they both report to you. Yeah or you know. If peers aren't working out many of us who are solvers problem solvers when you face it interpersonal situation. That is a struggle to resolve. Sometimes we feel like we can work harder to solve it but sometimes working harder isn't the answer so when I've learned from that as to step back and be creative about how to either work around or to invite others into help jointly solve it versus taking it on yourself. What do you think is the best thing you did for your so number one thing which is sometimes hard for all of us just being myself anytime? I was the beat myself and come to work. As my whole self I totally thrived sometimes at hard to be yourself. That would be my first thing and I think the second thing is taking risks to do. What's right for the business or from me versus what the market or friends like bought? I should deal to taking those smart risks that I knew in my core where the right thing to do for the business and probably I was thinking about this in preparation. My first job was at a place called Swan waster depot. I don't know if you've ever been to it is in San Francisco and it's very old fashioned fish market. It's literally one marble counter and you go in and you get the best cracked crab and chuck wasters and you can also get fresh fish to take home and Cook for dinner. And I started working there when I was fourteen because I was trying to save money to buy a car and that actually is probably the best thing I ever did for my career because it taught me. I mean everybody sits at that counter from you know a garbage man to the richest people in San Francisco and so it taught me to treat everybody as equals. It taught me that high quality product comes. I just the power of working really hard day so yeah. I'm very grateful for that first job. Also I guess we're at the end so I was wondering if there's any you wanNA sell pitch Okay so I have a few things so the first one is. I have a good friend named Diana cap who just wrote a book called girls who run the world. Okay is great story as female. Ceo Journeys and. It's a kids book so my first thing is go out and buy girls who run the world for every third through eighth grade girl you know it will completely inspire them. The second one is pay it forward no matter how junior you are in your career. Pay It forward to a new colleague. Go volunteer to just pay it forward. And the my last one which is so pertinent today is get out in boat. Don't leave our democracy up to anyone else so go out and vote. Hey Guts I hope you enjoy our interview with the mazing. Wise Blair Shane. I personally think she gave some of the best people management advice. I've heard from anyone definitely tips. I'll be taking for lear down the road also personally. Just find her voice very soothing. Stick around to the end to hear a sneak peek of next week's episode. You can find more information about. Blair's Shane on our website. The new school podcasts dot com to stay up day on content. Make sure to follow us on instagram and facebook. At the new school podcasts please rate review and subscribe wherever you guys get. Your podcast will be really appreciated if you do. You could find your review on a future. The new school episode. If you or anyone else you know thank. You haven't amazing guests beyond our show definitely no contact us in reach out on our website. The new school podcasts Dot com new school of Christine. Hong is produced by shoshee. Beyond Jenny. Snyder and Keefer negree adding by Sydney Sulk John. Simpson and video editing by Josh Stanley special. Thanks to our marketing team. Who Help US spread our mission and get the new school name out there so stressful shutout Katya Sake Amer borgerding. Giovanni Cortez Cynthia Xiao Dina Che and Marissa Will Shammar next week. Look out for an interview with one of the men who started John Z kitchen which has been dubbed by vogue as the sweet green of Chinese. Louison who was featured on Forbes. Thirty under thirty last year is Giannis head. Culinary director chef end designs during tire menu. I remember just going back to bed and I may or may not have been offered a job. Not really sure. In three months later the first restaurant is open end. I'm cooking their come back next Monday to hear how Lucas Cut Star in food how he started multiple restaurants and look at a snapshot. What a day to day is like as a culinary director right. Have a great day guys. Try something new.

founder Business School Stanford Business School San Francisco sequoia capital General Mills sequoia Blair Shane CEO US New Business Christine Hong Rick Who Sandra Business School Cal Academy of Science Maksim Charles Schwab executive Christine Welcome
20VC: Sequoia's Roelof Botha on His Biggest Lessons Working Alongside Don Valentine, Mike Moritz and Doug Leone, Leading Sequoia's US Business and What Sequoia Do To Retain Their Edge at the Top & The Crucible Moments That Define Startup Success

The Twenty Minute VC

40:41 min | Last month

20VC: Sequoia's Roelof Botha on His Biggest Lessons Working Alongside Don Valentine, Mike Moritz and Doug Leone, Leading Sequoia's US Business and What Sequoia Do To Retain Their Edge at the Top & The Crucible Moments That Define Startup Success

"This is the twenty minute visa with me. Harry stabbing my word what our show we have in store few stay for many years growing up in the industry. I've hugely respected mind this incredible guest Haege, welcome burnoff both a partner at sequoia capital. One of the world's leading venture firms with the portfolio including the likes of Abeam be caught stripe. Ui Paul Zoom List really does go on as for an office KOI lead rounds in the likes of Youtube instagram event bright. Squad Mongo DB twenty three and me unity technologies just to name a few again and before joining the world venture runoff. WHO's the CFO pay pal play a key role in the hyper growth from two, thousand, two, thousand and three by say he signed Pan Grady Ravi, Gupta Angelina pendulum as well as Julia and Kevin hosted of umbreit. Some amazing questions, suggestions, today, I, really did appreciate that. But before we move into the show stay I'm sure you've heard about it but. My word. I love a product. Cool Carter. Carter simplifies how startups and investors manage accuracy chart count tables, and get Bonnie Way Shins Carter Dot com slash two zero visa temps and off more than eight hundred thousand employees and shareholders used to manage hundreds of billions of dollars and accuracy and Carter now offers fund administration. So you can see real time data in the Carter. Platform With Causes Team Burn Fund Accountants Coach you call Dot Com slash two zero visa to get. Ten percent off and if you've been listening to our show, you've probably heard of Bryce the first corporate card for startups with no personal guarantee or credit check up to twenty times high credit limits and traditional cards plus rewards like three manageable apple products and seven points on Tuesday Zoom in slack helped thousands of companies scale fostered to reach that potential this month there is standing there special to our listeners apply for the Bryce car by November thirtieth with the code. Twenty. All spelled out to receive a five hundred dollar credit. After spending a thousand dollars even better. You can also apply for Bryce cash a ban Hambleton with unlimited free wire and ach transfers with no minimum balance required to create an account, you can apply for an account stay bradstock comb and lost by no means least if call term bryce really changed the game in terms of fund odd men and finance amplitude is that for product amplitude helps the top project grow teams pay companies like pay, Pal Institute Palette on my favorite lassie properties, furnaces that convert and retain customers with that. Product Intelligence, platform you and your team will really be able to better understand us a behavior ship great experiences foster and retain more customers. They've become the gold standard Ninoy seeks for teams asking what is happening that digital products why uses conversing and what do we build next see for yourself how companies like twitter door dash and Cisco built for growth using amplitude and visit amplitude dot com slash to`serve discounted scholarship plans are available for qualifying startups. You have to check them out, but that's quite enough for Mason. I'm very, very excited handover to royal both their partner at Sequoia capital. You have now arrived at your destination road offices such a joy to do I've wanted it for a very long time. Now say thank you so much for joining me stay. Speakers, who that is very kind of you, but I'm going to pretend to be blissfully ignorant. I haven't read Misinter- everything you've done before but in vain. You the world venture and comes via ponderous accord. Stay luck. Came to the US one, thousand, nine, hundred eight to go to Stanford Business School candidly I've never heard of capital until I got here obviously got exposure to tech in silicon valley being in Stanford in the Maelstrom of Dot Com bubble and ended up learning about venture capital joint papal straight on school. We can talk about that a little bit later by the Pasta Venture capital was quite accidental at a time paypal acquired by Ebay in two thousand and two I wasn't quite sure what I would do next make Whitman offer to remain a cfo of the company and Mike Mertz Accord asked with our interview. Which is kind of strange because they were looking for a computer science, major product management and Enterprise Software Company. I was actually running finance at a financial services company and I left every interview thinking it was my lost eventually they made me an offer to my surprise and I guess they still haven't figured out a good match. What an incredible couple of decades that has been. Kind take criminal educated guesses like growing up in south. Africa really inch many growing up in inside impact your mindset in I. Guess the person eat become stay a little bit I. Think I think it's more to do with individuals around you than necessarily just being in a particular country decided to study actuarial science finished High School Nineteen Ninety, which was the. And Awesome Angela was released and so that has had the most peaceful transition that any of us could have imagined but as a young person I wanted to share my future and so I decided to study Acura science expert a British qualified actuary and the reason was that it give me a passport to travel internationally internationally recognized professional accreditation and that was a big motivation for me and I Wanted to compete on the world stage or maybe there's a little bit of being in a small comparatively small country. Maybe sometimes feeling like Europe, big fish fishing Swedish pond into gun, conquer the world and test yourself against the best that's out there and I mean there's no better than scores test yourself I do WANNA loss because ice by before the show and he sat in particular whether you. Pay Pal from. NBA, intense. He's in specifically all sorts of how did that happen what we biggest takeaways from not Papon. Experience had joined in two thousand mosh of two thousand and it was the third offer to join the company but Mitt Elon in nineteen thousand nine and he made me off to join but I couldn't have student visa work permit in the US made him again later that year again, I couldn't leave and in March of two thousand I don't have money necessity being the mother of invention. So people remember nine hundred. Ninety eight there was emerging markets currency crisis and the rand had lost forty percent of its value on the eve of my departure for America and my savings had dried up because of a decrease in the value of the dollar value, my savings and two out of necessity took the job at paypal in March and work part time and studied time until I graduated in June as a way to make a bit of money and pay rent. Now, obviously I love the company done research in the company and I. was really number with the potential for this viral growing payments network but that's how I ended up at the company and when I was there as an intern I helped the company pulled this financial company raised one, hundred, million at five, hundred pre at the height of the bubble we literally close the financing rather beginning of two thousand, I think fifteen sixteen days before the Nasdaq started to slide. So it was incredibly lucky of us to have done that but we didn't have great business model at the time so. I started about the company's financial models. One of the things that clued me into the risk we ran with fraud because I started to see some of the early warning signs of what forces was starting to do to us. So that enabled us to move very quickly in the summer of two thousand to build a bunch of really powerful tools that enable us to survive in many of our competitors completely failed to that fold risk to became a VP financial risk management at the end of two thousand when Peter. He promoted me into that role and then in the summer of two thousand and one, we're about to fall to go public and we didn't have CFO to take public and I raised my hand and asked for the opportunity and proven myself as being part of the team. But I was twenty seven years old and while we had a great culture and could you amongst the management team I clearly had done it before the board was supporter of and Mike and Roots in particular was very supportive of backing the unknown underdog youngster we continue to interview other quote unquote more experienced candidates. Given opportunity and screwed up enough actually since I was able to be the CFO take public movement out in February two thousand. People have ultimate stated before about kind of spending happened to Papon attempts the high button in terms of same fast hat. How did seeing bath ton impact how you think about the GROSSETO. Calls Fussy capital efficiency mindsets day when investing, it was staggering actually raised hundred billion around that are referenced in March, and then by June we had seven months of runway lift burning over ten million, a month and Mike. MIRATEC actually was the one that really rang the alarm bells for us and got us to focus on runways. First thing that every meeting runway runway runway and I remember going through a cost cutting exercise as one of the finance people back then and literally going through every single line. Item of our piano trying to figure out where we're spending money and it was shocking some sense to see some of the things that we did. It was silly because when you have the money, it sort of brings a whole new pocket and I saw firsthand what that meant and I also I end to deal with the consequences and so that informs the council I provided founders today and I think I can really speak with empathy and experience that I've seen it and I can relate to the challenge that comes from it's double edged sword though because in some sense, the companies that can't succeed if they don't have this boost of capital, there are many businesses that bootstrap they way all. The Way along makes this joke obviously about spacex don't drink your way into space you need a certain amount of rocket fuel and if you want to do great things sometimes and so that creates a tension obviously between twenty you raise and being wasteful or not, and it's a tough one to generalize. But counting here on the show that startups have indigestion not of starvation. I often kind of on the country, Ashi in many cases. But how do you think would you agree with that commonly held suggestion entirely agree with that suggestion but I do often see. So I think the biggest challenge for companies startups is finding product market fit that's the first challenge many fail at really nailing that. Problem, and that leads to starvation. Obviously, if you don't actually find a good market for your product, once you do and the great companies once they do usually have too many choices and it becomes a prioritization problem. Hence, the indigestion comment, it's a little bit like being spectacular buffet and you run the risk of reading because it just so many choices and this is also we companies then can get into trouble when they spread themselves too thin and take on too much into much money and it may be better for them to prioritize and sequence some of the decisions and product bill. Every single visa says on the show when I asked him, what's the biggest challenge you face state? We'll say. I completely understand that challenge when you think about time management, how do you think that way you allocate and prioritize your time and she was thinking around not prioritization of what to do versus what not to do. That is such a difficult question and I feel like I'm trying to get better at that every single day as I try to juggle things, the first party has to be to partners at least it's really play team sports and one of my partner's needs my opinion on the company like me to listen to a company, this afternoon or one of them has an investment member or give. You a concrete example last night at ten pm one apartments published an investment memo because we have a short fuse investment decision that we're making later this morning, and so I've listened twelve hours from the time that was published to digest think about it and get ready for important decision meeting, and so it means that I got up this morning and that I read it because to my Partner to be prepared to help us as a team make the best possible invasive decision we can. So you make sacrifices I. Think you have to think about your team I. Probably next is thinking about companies that you serve and being there for your founders especially doomed the Cova crisis. I would get a call at ten thirty PM on a Sunday night from one of my founders who Was really worried about the survival of the business I'll pick up the phone and I'll speak to them and I'll try to help them through a sticky wicket use a temp grow cricket at some point, and then you also look at new investment opportunities but I'd say that would be the rank order of prioritization. I'd so nice to have someone on the show he understands cricket analogy so. I say you mentioned that amendment coming in last night deal getting done stay deals again, false map of the velocity is the right that I haven't seen before in order cases due to the proliferation of capital. Market status like you agree that the market is as crazy as everyone says, and I guess you multiple vintages now that Jehovah's it can Patrick private ships free. It's crazy in the sense that the pace accelerated, but also I wonder if that's just what's happening to so many other industries and venture is not immune. If you go back thirty forty years invasive Komo's arrived via the mail and people would leisurely read them and call people back. There was no email at the outset the time span for an investment decision was small and technology and communication technology particular really accelerated some industries including ours, and so we actually track for investments. We make the time between the first introduction when we had A. Full, partner meeting really make a decision and over the last twelve months, we've compressed our average time by more than a week from initial meeting to final investment decision and I think it's popular reaction to the environment where investments are happening very quickly and people need to respond I think it's a function of many investors doing a good job. Honestly, some invasive decisions presumably are all swapping and people are just making gunslinging decisions. But what I see more often is prepared mind and we do a lot of that. It's a special covert. We've developed numerous landscapes where we think about a category to go write a short investment internally not about a company, but about a sector and unless the companies then. Secular, we try to meet all them and we have thought piece on it and it's not new in some sense. We did this back in two thousand and four weeks of Sidon. We talked about Oprah's going to happen when broadband reached critical mass in the US we've talked about what was happening with rich browser applications. We talked about the trains in user generated content and all of those were in the new and when we met Youtube as a team former colleagues of mind from paypal, those were three key ingredients that made the time perfect for Youtube to succeed. So in some sense, we made a very fast decision to invest in the company, but in some sense, it wasn't because we had. Months to think about key trends and how uniquely enabled that company at that time. So I see some of that happening today as well eternally from the domestic perspective in terms of being totally informed coming into the deal itself. In terms of the Pasta relationship-building, I'm very much found relationship just ensuring the best kind of fit as politics for the long term I guess my concern is with the compression fundraising timelines. How do you think about building that relationship of trust anticipate when they also compressed? That's the biggest challenge I think you're spot on one of the challenges is that in an online era I don't know if you can truly replicate the trust you built through in person meetings and in. Just getting to know somebody whether it's the subtleties of facial expressions that are lost given the fidelity of online video and obviously all the other body language that you miss. Entirely I worry that trust level shallow it today it'll come back obviously once over in variable to meet people in person again but that is a big concern. The basically we've tried to remedy that is to be more thorough with personal references probably than. We have been in a Pre Co. Vera as a substitute for some of that trust polling, can I ask I'm sorry, this is scheduled but I how do you determine the references to ingest any sachin really wrong with versus those to knock the ultimate people may reference particularly if they also inherently found a oriented themselves and they have strong opinions and views of the world that made him a brilliant found a tablet we. Do I know whether to accept it. He's reject the reference. So when I joined Sequoia Dont Allenton still in office and he took me aside totally in the first month and he said drain off visit two by two Matrix people invest in on the one access. It's not exceptional unexceptional and the other axis. It's easy to get along with and not easy to get along with your job. Today's to figure out in which quadrant normally make money. It was a very nice way for him to remind me that founders are different. These people who just accept the status quo they want to challenge the status quo these people who unlike most of us most people confront the problem and they just accommodate or void founders embraced that challenge they look at a problem and they want to take on the world and change it for the better and so you want to lean into that characteristic. So you've gotta be careful with the references and things around in. The things that bright lines obviously. But around people that want to shake things up I love those kinds of references treat those puzzle to data point not an ignorant point I. Love that in terms of the advice you give him back and building that relationship before the way that I'm seeing a lot of people have not hijack I'd be the wrong word but kind of get ahead speak disturbing Bryant preemptive rounds helping you think about the prolific rate of around the bay it's a mixed blessing in some sense it's a good thing that investors have to work very hard sort of the other extreme view. I. Think it'd be good for founders of invasive. Saturday offices and waited for opportunities to cross the threshold that'd be too lazy and passive. Some sense if an investor has an intuition for space, if they've done the landscaping work to have a thesis on a particular category and then a belief that this particular company is the winning company and want to approach the company with an offer and insights to help them succeed. That sounds like a fabric. The doubt obviously is if it's mostly mimetic behaviour, the saints that this is a quote hot company, and so I should rush over with a term sheet without even due diligence, and unfortunately we do see some of that we've seen a couple of instances where references a shallow diligence is shallow, and so I do think there will be casualties along the way and then. Other danger overseas the money burning a hole in the pocket problem that companies over capitalized as it ended up diluting the company's focus on what matters most is it a challenge for you because whatever sequoia does deal shown signaling around it when it's announced a series b. you instantly GonNa have the next subsequent rounded Bastos jumping will not be deal is that a challenge feet of manage that fund raise not found a perspective around future fundraising when suddenly they helped on inbound, it is a bit of a challenge coming. What can you do about it? It is what it is level but I think the biggest drain is that it distracts the team from focusing on the business. If. You've just closed the financing. You've probably spent the last couple of weeks fundraising and having had to lot of fundraising when I was at paypal I can tell you every time we were done. I was so relieved because I just wanted to get back to actually building the company and managing my team and making progress into my fear is that as soon as you through a fundraising process, you yet distracted and you're taking coughing meetings you sticking to too many other investors and heavy focus on building the business. So that's a bit of a dilemma that is post for these founders. Can really do about it I guess. It's also a good problem to have in terms of the signaling being. So strong I, do you WanNa to court self-doubt is fun KRISTA fifty s nascent since last week was one of their special reasons the unity snowflake. Sumo. Nor Jacob piped food is equally as exciting. Honest. But like many days Hubris, from such incredible positions in the special opportunities when I upon as I was consistent consistently told as we have the mindset, you only as good as your. tell me more about his mindset. How does retain it when you have such success some of that comes down to recruit the culture in the firm how you provide feedback along the way. It's not something that we take for granted. Some of it stems from the way that don set up the partnership originally and he didn't call it Valentine capital at a time in the nineteen seventies moments every single professional services firm with the Ritz, an accounting firm law firm venture firm, the names of the. Founders on the door don didn't and it was a very deliberate decision and it was no accident that he chose the name Sequeira and for those listeners that unfamiliar with the tree that are sequoia trees native to California, and it's the longest lived three maybe in the world. But in North America grows to be thousands of years old and the reason don chose that name he wanted to build a partnership that lost and would outlive him and it also was a signal for companies that he. Wanted to invest in he wanted to invest in companies that would stand the test of time I think that part of it's been distinctive about sequoias history is certainly of the companies we've backed over the decades still household names. So the reason this is important as don start to recruit people to join him at Sequoia, he was recruiting people to take over people to succeed him not people work for him and that was the sense that I got an join to was. Yes, I was an associated. Apprenticeship. Model where I was learning from the senior partners but there's a real sense of ownership where knew that if I did well, ultimately, I would have to table to help manage the partnership and then similarly today when I recruit team members to join us, they're not coming to work for me. They're coming to work with me and they have an opportunity in term to inherit a partnership and we all have this accountability to leave the partnership in a better position than we found it. So it's very subtle but it cascades those initial conditions decisions that don't May. Lead to this cascade of who you recruit, how you retain them, how you compensate them at all feeds into what's made success such a special firm for so long it's incredible to have eventually accounts essentially with accounts minutes he comes on C. Extreme responsibility and Ravi before the show she before my show with him, he's like what kind of Gordon intense pressure that he she felt before he made his first investments. Howdy you have that accountability Glue Paralyze people with the fear of responsibility. It's a very tricky balance and just like investing is about the balance between. Fear and greed in a partnership you've got the same balance. You've got a dream with an entrepreneur has to be willing to take risk to be able to swing for the fences to get these exceptional returns. Some that be have it's one hundred or two, hundred, zero, Michele investment, and with that comes the risk that sometimes it doesn't work out and Rene I, interview. Don Actually told me one of his biggest fears to me. It was that I hadn't seen in my life by the time I joined sequoia because even at Sequoia thirty, thirty, five percent of the. Investments that I've left for us have ended up losing money. Sometimes we've Lost Alami and it takes enormous to resilience to cope with losing money to have an investment and lost all of it. I remember the first time it happened in Supplement I. teared up in Apopka meeting I felt so shamed than investment I recommended lead to a complete loss, but you've got to accept that as part of the business you're to learn from those experiences, but you have to be willing to go back out the next day and look for new opportunity advice as I've made a number. Of investments in the timeframe. Then luckily, none of them have gone on the Yes. Hits advice would you give to me in terms of how to deal with it when the first one does happen and how to move on and be as productive efficient as possible given it's so cool to what we date. Actually there's a great question. I've spent time thinking about this earlier in my career because it is a business that takes you one of my partners used to say the name early. So if anything you're likely to see failure before success, which is another. Thing that eats it yourself conference, but it is a game of confidence to the things I've tried to do, and it's not only for the investments you make that fail, but it's also the ones you said, no to that end up succeeding both of those have valuable learning opportunities for you, and so you've got to think about the false positive and false negative decisions you make and what can you learn from them and I often try to go back to what it was at the time anti. What did I miss because obviously exposed you can select on the dependent. Variable and realize that it would have been a good investment but the circumstances when I looked at it, what are the facts? What did I miss? Did I fail to recognize the market opportunity the team and their ability to integrate the way in which the product zig and Zag when I first met twitter in two thousand seven it was a small exist and it wasn't it's a mishap and your phone with buzz the whole time with people telling you that they haven't got Pacino somewhere in but it was nothing like what the services today and maybe it's the. Right decision not to invest with what the facts were at the time but Kelly exposed I should have leaned in this man and I've often thought about that experience and could have imagined what if we come later? So the thing I find most often by the way, Harry is failure of imagination on my part that has been the big source of my failures and it's less invasive lead didn't work out but the ones that I said, no to those are the ones that won't be the most highly get you in terms as being Lonzo hone you in terms of. The other Bait van that I have is that I'll have one the can out and then my mind will be predisposed to automatically degrading any option team the same space say healthcare opportunity you see that she the incredibly challenging healthcare sales cycles that actually the company doesn't work out and all healthcare investments in your mind in the future completely humped sales cycle county you keep refresh mindset when you have a failure, the space opened a plastic enough to exact. New. York. Giants. That's hard. Very hard because you also want to learn from some of these things sometimes, you learn appropriately about the rest of investing and healthcare or maybe the challenge of being hard business where you can't get trade as quickly as you can as with the software business. But if you read line neighborhood, then that's also dangerous and you need to retain an element of naievety. SORTA childlike innocence willingness to dream and imagine as you look to your opportunity. So the especially since I'm trading naturally think about the woman probabilistic terms and so try to think of those experiences is just shifting the probability distribution but not making it binary it's. Not Extremes. It just slightly shift sue perception exception and your assessment of companies an opportunity he's I like that in terms of the distribution, do you have to ask him gain by scores? The Thumb? The industry is so seismically from even a data guy seen rising capitalist rights, microphones, rise of mega farmers with so many different iterations, mock it. How do you think in how to sequoia thing about ensuring the fund keeps the competitive edge that has now and what do you think is coach not the quarter that is to think about the customer I mean to steal a line from Basil's you WanNa be competitor aware but customer. Obsessed. That's the key. So we obviously take note of what our competitors doing. We have an offsite next week I'm sure that we'll spend maybe a quarter of the time thinking about our competitors and trying to figure out if they're clever things that they're doing that we can learn from but I, think we've led the industry more than followed in coming up with new innovations, and that comes from being customer obsessed and so more than a decade ago we came up with this idea of scouts as a way of getting role startups connected with Tintri founders who could help them get off the ground in a way that no. Venture capitalists could the thing launch three years ago and it took more than a year in the making to get it off the ground as a program we initially called amp. It's now called company designed program and idea was to go from just providing what I call bespoke services at our businesses really spoke to this one on one. You join a board you work with the founder that team that company to help provide advice, and yes, we leverage the rest of the sequoia team, but it's really a very individual touch service. Could we do this a little bit more batch oriented where we can share learnings and also on? With some of the tools and techniques they need before they run into those challenges and need to ask for it. So we designed this. Initially. It was aimed at what call series, eight companies. So post product market fit and be hosted a couple of years in a row for about twenty companies at a time, and it was transformational it part because we're able to arm these companies with this knowledge in part because we established the community with founders got to know each other and they started to support each other and they could call on each other just had an example of one of these founders who was in that program was going through a fundraising and truest able to call on two three of the peers that she'd made in. That program to ask for some of their advice, not only mine to help her giving community to help each other. Since then we've addressed program and it's been announced recently that we've added a seed or precede element to that for companies that are pre product market fit I've actually invested in companies pieces been trees it preceding the Seton they said it was transformational. So I'm really pleased to hear. That's Great I. I'm in should they you send about the boutique he elements and I completely agree with he's one of the things. I love so much about one way in which not so much the case. Old memberships in particular I'm really donald some of the Mexican of Transformational Company Boards of the Nas fifteen years when you think about your own membership, how would you describe your own stock bem ships day guess has it changed over the years I'm sure it's changed over the years, but it's one of these things. It's probably quite regil. So I be as where it might be good. Ask somebody like Kevin Hearts because I was on these board fifteen years ago in a previous company zoom and currently is bordered event. You might be able to see the change over time. It's really important. To understand that you're invited guests at some little as a board member and the responsibility of management lies was management not with the board, and even if you're very steeped in a particular industry, the team that's on the ground working eighty hours a day inside the building off so much closer to the details than you are, and so you're going to be very careful with being prescriptive and I think much more about taking socratic approach to being on the board asking questions and questions not asking questions that are really suggestions truly asking questions because even if you think the company should turn. Right rather than left you don't have all the nuance details of what they deal with on a day to day basis, and so it's really useful to us the board interactions as a way to lift teams focused from the short short-range immediate, precious that they feel inside the business to think a little bit long-term and to challenge thinking one of the phrases I've come up with his that board members also meant shock absorbers not amplifiers. So when the team is in the doldrums a little bit depressed or that Mr Product deadline or the Patterson back, be there to rally them and when. Things are going well challenge them challenge them to go even further. One of the most important things that board member can do is think about the time horizon that the team is focused on because it's very easy to be a management team to think about what are the Matrix to deliver this month was the product that shipping six weeks time how we're GONNA do this quarter and at Boardman distinctively help the company think going to be through five years, and if that's the company we WANNA be a we making all the right decisions today the traders to achieve our ultimate long-term objective. And so I think that's an Arab members consistent venue. Can I ask you think about the way to view lots? This is kind of see more of a thought every time with the incredible success you've seen, but you have such white boys with found is on on the members. Do you ever worry that they can be way too much in terms of you'll lending a question or an idea and found has changed that perspectives or changed that is based on that question expected from you and you have to kind of caveat it how do you think about the ways if you was? That is a great question. It applies in my leadership roles to where I think you're going to be very careful with what you say even an offensive comment, maybe a joke can be misinterpreted and take on former meaning that you intended. So try to be circumspect about what you say and try to counter woods appropriately. So I'll often caution and said, listen I don't know as much as you do about this particular aspect of this particular decision I'm trying to ask a question in the spurred of being devil's advocate or try to set up the question in a way that makes it. Clear that I'm not surreptitiously trying to guide to particular outcome but I truly am asking a question. So I tried to get out of my way to do that I think it's important and that's really I mean I would on the show for the first time recommended him. You told me that he who is he didn't speak. So long in any internal missing which I remember my question to you is like when you think about developing genius and rising team members and especially those that are on boards, what would you advise this is actually a what would you advise me and? Others joining US times when it comes to really being the best poems found this that they can be earlier in that career to things. Listen is one of the great things I took away from Don Valentine as well as he's listening gene Mike Enrich, the same way when I saw him as a member paper and then when I joined sequoia and I shouted at Him, many boards was listening and thinking as opposed to talking for the sake of hearing your voice being willing to ask questions and you'd understand it so much worse to pretend that you know it's so much easier to just. Hey I don't quite understand. Why are we doing this? Can you explain this product that rebuilding again, what does this acronym mean don't be shy about questions I think it's the people who feign that they know and then get caught out that so much worse and then finding good mentors wonderful to learn and absorb from others who've acquired some of these skills of the year. So a lot of Dacoven you join us you to shadow several different partners on some of their boards which gives you. Exposure to the unique styles, but also give exposure to a variety of industries these when I joined I remember going to Semiconductor Company Board Enterprise Software Company border with a variety of company in industries that never seen before, and I started to see the different styles of the difference equipment board members, and I would be able to pick and choose and steal a little bit of some of great attributes to melted into my own unique style. Final thing before we dive into the Great. Fire speaking. He was such an incredible Johnny isolates Pat for emergency is ups and downs with every company in those ups and downs Venus East. Had him about the unity johnny it's seat but an incredible town investment since ask him about that and how he thinks about not stay on refresh. So there's a phrase we deployed. So crucible moments and ideas that many decisions every day that gets to make that are somewhat tactical in nature and often the reversible decision so that it matters much in the sense that it's better to try something and if it doesn't work a couple of weeks later you. Could Roll back the decision and try something different but there's probably one to three crucible decisions. Accompany faces every year that truly truly effect ultimate outcome and the challenge for management is identifying those critical moments first and second, how'd you surround yourself with the based advisers and information to make sure that you make the best possible decision in that moment and I think unity we it's a quiz team have been able to deliver on that for the company. So one of the first decisions was to go change the business model of the company because company bootstrapped until that we were the series investor. In the company in two, thousand nine, they'd never had outside capital. They didn't have a board into voice charged for the software that meant that originally small developer footprint and we had a thesis again back to the landscaping and prepare mind this thesis about the rise of the developer and the importance of developers long-term there about twenty, five, million people in the planet that right software for living and yet they build these products, the billions of us depend on every day. So anything that serves those developers makes more productive was important and we thought that unity would have ceded table with the. Giants, If that a much larger footprint of developers and so we encouraged them to opt free members and small, and we spent months iterating with them thinking through that and thinking through the nuances of what seems like a one line decision, but it's actually much more complex to unpack. So that was one example of truly important crucible decision was the transition from being a perpetual license business to being a subscription business model. It was the decision with the help and guidance of David the founder to take one of the board members, Patillo and make him the CEO David is the founder himself in. The CEO felt as John would be the better long-term person to run the company that was a crucible decision moments with the company and thinking through these really important decisions saying no to attempting acquisition offer early in the life of the company that is a fraction of what the company's worth today that was another crucible moment decision. So take a lot of jobs about helping the company identifying the navigate through these phony decisions that have big bearing. On ultimate outcome I love that labeling as crucible decisions. If we find one final question, very passionate about bringing move under the seats in the ecosystem as a whole, I recently tweets actually about suffering. Meeting soldiers in the positive people say shots at I actually kind of cannoning like that in that I actually struggled with the children. I think kind of the facade or the presentation of self in public, and then actually happen seeds very different in terms of vulnerability and dcfs to personal anita, we can scratch completely how do you think about your released today? It's a great question We spent time thinking about that as a team by the way. So when we have our get togethers is an investment team. We start off with something check ins, which is something that micron all brought to us something that the team had done at facebook. And idea of these chickens is to just share a little bit about what's going on in your life and it's both personal and work typically, and the expectation is that you really share what matters to you and so people talk about illness in the family relationship challenges they're having people talk about fears about the performance companies of these that are struggling. They might talk about how been investment in a while and they're worried about whether they're in the best tributaries for interesting new deal flow and we sit around and we have this conversation. It's uncomfortable was very uncomfortable in the first few times we did it but by showing of vulnerability you. Really believe almost trust uncomfortable as that is for us as a team. It means that we're all a lot more relatable and we trust each other very differently, and so when we get to make investment decisions I, think we make them as impersonal as possible. Make them as rationalists possible for the sake of making investment decisions and people don't hold back worried about interpersonal repercussions because we had that vulnerability moment as a team, and so I think it's something that management teams should do more in general I think it's a a possible thing more cohesion management team and it will you'll better performance in general I really like the idea of checking. Systematic process around sharing Santana terabytes about it really appreciate that I would love to meet the quickfire on their to say statement and you give me your immediate the westbound sixty seconds pylon. Does that sound that kate sure. So what's your favorite booker wine? My favorite book has Viktor Frankl's man's search for meaning there's a phrase in there. He says those who have to. Live can bear almost any how to book I read recently as an adult only radio four five years ago, and it had a big impact on me because it showed the importance of purpose meaning as a higher calling than ego or material wealth all hedonistic pleasure, and I think about the greatest companies we invest in the founders of driven by higher quality a higher purpose. And we planted square to because we pick our is being nonprofits, endowments, and foundations, and gives meaning to our work to know that the prophets we help generate, go to these great causes that help with Medical Research Education Poverty Alleviation. He's the most memorable member that you served on with them why I'd say Tom Killilea. He's a former executive from Amazon who was the CEO, and then he was one of the executives aws to build what is obviously phenomenal business. Today I worked with him outside board member at Zoom International Money Remittance, service, and since then I recruited him to the board at Mongo DB and he's an incredible manager. He's an incredible technologist. He's unflappable. He's Irish so I have good debates about rugby, which is a nice bonus. But he's got an incredible combination of technical prowess and management skill. Absolutely love that and new Mia Hamm people shy away from that question. So I really appreciate. All right. What are your partners mean when they say pocket Roloff? I was in the Kitchen Wedneday, giving some advice to somebody one of my partners jokes. You know what? I'm going to write an APP and I'm going to call it pocketknife and whenever you need advice or sometimes maybe just a joke, you'd pull up this APP and you'd asked Pogorelov to dispense. Words. Unfortunately I didn't think it seems to be shooting up the APP rankings. I would love to see someone did not on the back of this episode by the way, but I would love to ask you biggest strength and biggest weakness Fiji on the street side I I've been described as an intellectual Omnivore, a love, the challenge of being involved with different industries. So I'm on the board of Mongo, which is an enterprise infrastructure software company in a terror, which is a bioinformatics company square, which is a financial services company in the Pasta let investments in Instagram Youtube, which was social media companies. And so I love the challenge of solving problems in a variety of different industries and the witness. Coincidentally I reflected on my three sixty review from two years ago and reading that recently just sort of trying to figure out actually kept to the resolutions the feedback I got was that I don't dispense praise as much as I could or should that I'm quick to critique but not quick to praise, and so that's something I'm continue to work on. That's important. Tell me what would you change about the world of venture? Posturing I. Find It misplaced when investors crow about the success of a company as though they were the ones who are in the trenches every day I think invasive can have a big influence sometimes for the better outcome of a company. But there's a reason we have this raises equate that with entrepreneurs behind the entrepreneurs and our job is to support the founder and the founders and the management teams and the people in the building. They're the people doing the hard work and I feel that way from my work. At paypal merits was a fantastic board member influence the bunch of our key decisions, but he also wasn't there on Saturday mornings when we had our management team meetings every single week, and so understanding your place is really important and shining the light on the entrepreneur and the management team. That's the change I'd like to see, and then the final one was the most recent publicly announced investment and why did she say yes, and get so excited. So who doing a video podcast show you, we invested in a company called. which is spelled m. h. m.. Love this Brian is such a give branding play by the way. That name because it's a Pailin Room and secondly it is a name. You can't pronounce your mouth full of food, which is a nice coincidence, but it's a company born of the covert era in timers we're spending so much time on video in little rectangle boxes how do you actively communicate and so the company this capability for everyone to be able to broadcast themselves to have tools at your disposal to communicate better with that's giving a presentation or making light of something injecting humor being direct and personable, and so I use the APP every single day I, absolutely love it and. Every time I show it to people they immediately ask them where they can get it. So I think it has incredible viral potential we got involved before the company technically had been formed. It wasn't an idea stage. So we let the seed investment and we just double down on the series and I absolutely love remember having a woman showing teaching about while the fostering. So I think that's incredible entrepreneur incredible exciting opportunity as I that I to see us one for many many years they thank you so much for doing this and I'm absolutely loves having you on the show. Thank you. My world would here and just so much fun diverted for Michelle there if you'd like to see more from us behind the scenes you count on Instagram at age stubbings nine, hundred, ninety, six with T.. B.'s I always loved to see that before we leave each day I'm sure you've heard about it but my word I love a product called Carter. Carter simplifies how startups investors manage accuracy chart count tables, and get away shins you call two dot com forward slash to`serve E. C. to get ten percent off more than eight hundred thousand employees and shareholders us, Carter to manage hundreds of billions of dollars. And Carter now offers fund administration. So you can see real time data in the car to platform with causes team, Experience Fund, Accountants Goto Dot Com slash Tuesday zero visa to get ten percent off and if you've been listening to our show, you've probably heard of breaks the first corporate card for startups with no personal guarantee or credit check up to twenty times high credit limits and traditional cards plus reward like three manageable apple products and seven is points on tools. I. Zoom in slack has helped thousands of companies scale foster to reach that potential this expanding their special offer to our listeners apply for the bryce called by November thirtieth with the twenty. All spelled out to receive a five hundred dollar credit off spending a thousand dollars even better. You can also apply for Bryce cash a bank Channel Tunnel TIFF with unlimited free wire and ach transfers with no minimum balance required to create an account you can apply for account stay at Brax, dot com, and lost by no means least if Carter Bryce really changed the game in terms of Fund Dobbin and finance amplitude is not for product. amplitude helps atop project growth themes, companies like pay pal instant Palette on my favorite last seen go polities furnaces that convert and retain customers with that product. Intelligence Platform. You and your team will really be able to better understand US behavior ship great experiences false to retain more customers. They've become the gold standard in analytics for teams asking what is happening in that digital products. Why uses conversing and what do we build next see for yourself how companies like twitter door dash and Cisco built for growth using latitude and busy amplitude dot com slash to`serve discounted scholarship plans are available for qualifying startups. You have to check them out as always I. SO appreciate it. We was Michael means bringing a fantastic episode David how awesome Founder Unity this coming Friday?

founder sequoia capital US partner paypal Cool Carter Carter Bryce Youtube CFO Harry twitter Giants Pan Grady Ravi apple Mongo DB Kevin Hearts indigestion
9/21/2020 Marketing News - TikTok Ban Update

Talketer Podcast

00:51 sec | 2 months ago

9/21/2020 Marketing News - TikTok Ban Update

"Over the weekend President Trump gave his Blessing to a deal that will give Oracle and Walmart a combined 20% stake in a new company called Tik Tok Global which will be headquartered in the United States and operate the bow out. If you count u.s. Venture Capital firms such as Sequoia General Atlantic and tiger management than about 53% of tic tacs Global shares will be held by either American investors home or to American companies or called in Walmart. Additionally Americans will hold four out of the five seats on Tik-Tok Global board with bite dances CEO holding the fifth seat of the Chinese government will still have to approve the deal. Thanks to the country's update to its technology export bands that would require bytedance to obtain a license from China before can sell Tik Tok song Rhythm in AI technology to a US company.

Tik Tok Global Walmart Tik-Tok Global United States Trump President Sequoia Oracle Chinese government China CEO 20% 53%
7 Brilliant Founders and CEOs We're Studying in 2020 | Ep. #1434

Marketing School

08:00 min | 5 months ago

7 Brilliant Founders and CEOs We're Studying in 2020 | Ep. #1434

"Welcome to marketing school, the only podcast that provides daily top level marketing tips and strategies from entrepreneurs that practice what they preach and live what they teach. Let's start leveling up your marketing knowledge with your instructors. Neil, Patel and Eric Su. Hey Margie school listeners I have an interesting stat for you. Did you know that Walmart improved their conversion rate by two percent for every second that the improve their low time in other words, website speed helps with conversions in addition to that google uses it to determine where your site ranks in their index. The faster website loads the higher. You'll rink for that reason I want to talk to. To you today about a company called dream. House Dream Hose, powers the web with fast websites and superior customer service brought to you by team of Web, experts or super committed to your success online. We've worked with them to a special offer. Just remarking school listeners, all you have to do is go to dream host dot com slash marking school to learn more and get your website online today. Welcome to another episode of Marketing School I'm Eric Su, and I'm Neil Patel and today we're GonNa talk about six brilliant founders and CEO's that were studying in twenty twenty, and Neil and I wanted to share this with you, because we're always trying to learn from great leaders in the world and really integrate whatever lessons they have, and hopefully up carried down to you, so start with number one. I actually like Patrick. Collison from stripe because he is a deep learner meaning that the things that he's reading on philosophy on could be on. Politics could be on Joe political situations, and also like companies to everything he's doing. It's very thought through, and it just seems like when you look at how built stripe as a company, so he's a CO founder of stripe all the things that they're doing as a company. They have the ability for you to make your own credit cards. They have striped capital. I was talking with a friend. It could be very possible that straight up. Just could be this massive financial institution, but great user experience a lot of people using it, and you're just getting bigger and bigger as a company and they have you know some of the best investors in the world backing them so really like Patrick Collison. One CEO that I've been really falling recently is radio. I bought his book principles over a year ago and even though I got into an I just didn't really focus on all the concepts within his book. He also has a lot of free stuff from free books, free video lessons and the way he manages bridgewater, which is one of the largest hedge funds is just mind boggling for the way he optimized performance the way he puts together teams. I think there's a lot valuable insights that you can take that and apply to other industries. Ya I'M GONNA go with Bill Gates. I know a lot of people. This is amazing how you know. Social media can be manipulated by a lot of people. Don't like him right now. Because of the vaccines, so he's to help with, but I I like how Bill Gates has been consistent with how, but he dominates the world with Microsoft, and then now he's just going to give all the money away by dominating still in his own unique way, but really helping the world in in a scalable fashion, so I'm looking at what he's talking about. I'm reading his annual letters. I'm looking. Looking at the books that he's recommending. It's almost auto. Add to cart once. I'll take a look at the book and I'll I'll add them, but yeah the way he thinks he positionings. It's very simple especially after watching his netflix documentary it. Just you see all problems. He's trying to solve how he thinks there's just not Cut a time in a day for him. And he realized that he just wants more time to solve more problems. And you realize he went from this Super Competitive Guy to justice guy constantly think about. How can we at-bats? Humanity and I really admire that. Another person that I've been looking at really closely lately. Is Phil. Knight from Nike. I think branding is more important than ever the way people connect with the brand the way it resembles itself. You know when people are wearing your talking about your product in the future. When you look at algorithm updates how people convert day they relate to brand. They know it. The just numbers are through the roof and. And Nike has built one of those brands at no matter where you are in that world. People what that switch sinus. I had my nephew. You know a while back. Say Mommy Mommy I. Want Nike Shoes for Christmas in my mom. My sister at the time was like why he's like. It'll make you run faster right and Yes, don't really make you run faster in theory. They shouldn't but the. Power of that brand, even on someone who's a young kid. That's just amazing. Number five for me is in the ball ravikant just the way he thinks he's the east founded a company company's. He's got. Angeles invests in a budget companies. If you look at how he tweets, it's very. There's so much wisdom. Packed into just a couple of tweets every time, right? He's easy releases. This podcast series on how to get wealthy and he knew that that's a title that would really attract a lot of people, but there's a lot of wisdom in. There's just very practical advice on. Hey, you should be building audience. You should be building products or services that allied make money while you sleep. You should be building leverage you should be. Be Not engaging with these things like? Here's the things you need to do to be happy and they're all very practical and I just like when you got someone. That's successful that still willingly sharing all this information. When just kind of paying Ford. There's really no incentive for him to do it other than the fact that he wants to do it and he doesn't really well, so the vall follow him highly recommended. Another person that I've been looking at Israel who ends up running sequoia US years and years ago. I'm talking about ten twenty years ago. It was either ten or twenty years ago is one of the other. Sequoia had a all hands meeting and they were all wearing blazers talking about China at the time. An Indian places like that, so sequoia is big on seeing trends before they really happen. Ross does a ton of interviews, Nepali butchering his name, but he does a ton of interviews on TV Youtube on his talks, and he talks about future trends what they're going into what the looking to invest in Sukhoi's one of the most successful venture firms out there. I think created more. Companies than any other VC out there so looking at what they're doing what they're looking for the trends that's very important because that will guide us as entrepreneurs on what we should be doing and looking for to in the future. Yeah, number seven actually number seven tomato Collie Hypoxia, so he is the CEO of social capital. He's also on the board of Virgin. Galactic really made his. Billionaire. Health facebook get to where it is today? Just super smart all around guide on CNBC all the time, and he's pretty hilarious guy. He's like yeah, you know. All these companies should should go bust all these people. Is just funny. Saying people should get wiped out, but he's also very thoughtful. Right like the way he'd kill. Take shots, and he is when people talk about. You have to be contrarian. He certainly contrary the way he makes his bets, and I like the one thing I'll say about him as He is who he is, and he's very transparent and the other thing I'll say is. He started writing his annual letter, so there's a social capital annual letter and typically I mean at least I. Think speaking for Neil as well. We like reading annual letters from people that we follow so it could be like Jeff. bezos Warren Buffett Tomasz all these people because you're just a lot of wisdom, Neil anything else. That's it makes me go to marketing school dot is slash live. We do something in person virtual soon and if you want to attend, go there to apply, and we'll be in touch in all right. See you later. We appreciate you joining us for this session of Marketing School be sure to rate review and subscribe to the show and visit marketing school dot io for more resources based on today's topic as well as access to more episodes that will help you find tree, marketing, success, tax marketing, school dot io until next time class dismissed.

Neil Patel Marketing School CEO Patrick Collison Bill Gates Nike Eric Su Walmart Sequoia stripe google netflix CNBC Jeff. bezos Warren Buffett Microsoft bridgewater Phil
Saving the Ozone Layer Slowed Climate Change, the Largest Lifeforms on Earth, and Tips for Avoiding Distractions at Work

Curiosity Daily

11:49 min | 11 months ago

Saving the Ozone Layer Slowed Climate Change, the Largest Lifeforms on Earth, and Tips for Avoiding Distractions at Work

"Hi you're about to get smarter just a few minutes with curiosity daily from curiosity dot com. I'm cody golf and I'm actually Hamer today. You'll learn about how an international treaty really from the eighties global warming where you can find the biggest lifeforms on the planet and some expert advice for avoiding distractions at work. What satisfy some curiosity curiosity news about? Climate change is often doom and gloom but recently researchers from the University of New South Wales had some good news to share. They announced that the nineteen eighty-seven Montreal Protocol is the first international treaty to slow the rate of global warming. So why is this news if the treaty was from nineteen eighty-seven because we've just figured out that it did that like it. Did it by accident rate because remember from the eighties. The whole thing everybody was worried about was the ozone layer right right so that was why it was signed but it actually ended up helping global warming at the same time. Wow Yeah so like I said. The Montreal Protocol aimed to save the Ozone Layer. which is that zone in the stratosphere that protects the earth from Harmful U. V. Radiation and protocols set out to do this by reducing the production and use of ozone-depleting substances instances that includes a lot of things but the most prevalent and harmful are chlorofluorocarbons or CFC's CFC's have commonly been used as aerosol propellants silence and cleaning solvents and you might also find them in plastic foam packaging insulation and refrigeration and air conditioning? Nearly two hundred countries have signed the agreement to ban their use use and the protocol is already considered the most successful international environmental treaty in history. Ninety nine percent of these harmful substances have now been phased Out and the ozone layer is set to completely recover by twenty fifty but like I said the Montreal Protocol wasn't really designed to help the climate. It just turns the CFC's are also greenhouse gases ones that are thousands of times more potent than carbon dioxide. Thanks to their removal. The earth will be on average a full all degrees Celsius Cooler by twenty fifty than it would have been without the agreement in place. The effects are even greater in key areas like the Arctic temperatures. There will be cooler by as as much as three to four degrees Celsius and these cooler temperatures have a ripple effect cooler temps mean that Arctic ice hasn't melted as fast which is kept sea levels down the researchers noted that the Montreal Protocol has been fighting global warming behind the scenes for three decades without a lot of fanfare. So let's all take this moment to appreciate it. Thanks Montreal Montreal Protocol when the world comes together amazing things can happen if you wanna find the biggest life forms on the planet. You'll need to journey into an ocean. Seven of trees. Oh twists the deeper you walk into it. The taller trees grow until their trunks. Measure hundreds of feet around and their canopy sway. Twenty five stories above your head. Clearly I'm not talking about blue whales. No I'm talking about sequoia the National Park in California and its giant sequoias which are the world's biggest life forms. Now I WANNA say Sequoia National Park is not where I'm from. But but Redwood National Park is at the other end of the state and it has tons of massive sequoias and I grew up with Sequoia in my front yard so I just need to point that out. Thank you for pointing that out and this acquaint national park. I'm talking about is much further south. It's actually just west of Death Valley National Park Pretty Much due west of Las Vegas actually and these giant sequoias are about two hundred fifty feet tall or seventy six meters and it takes a long time for a tree to get to be that big most estimates place these trees in around two thousand two twenty five hundred years old just one tree of Biblical proportions is enough to give you a new perspective on your place in the world. But sequoias don't come Solo. They grow into giants groves. Some of which can contain tens of thousands of trees and and the King of the forest is the General Sherman Tree. It's not only the largest surviving sequoia but the largest surviving tree in the world take at its base. The trunk is more than thirty meters around. That means it would take more than seventeen average adults holding hands to surround the circumference in two thousand six. The tree lost its largest branch in a storm and that branch alone it was larger than most trees at a length of one hundred feet or more more than thirty meters. And it's I am eter of just under six feet. One point eight meters. Don't worry though that lost branch doesn't mean the treason trouble. Researchers believed that breaking breaking off branches is a natural survival mechanism to prevent the tree from breaking and powerful winds. I mean it's been around for a couple of Millennia right. So maybe it's learned a thing or two and the general wasn't always the biggest tree in the world up until eighteen fifty four. That honor belongs to the mother of the forest tree which grew in what is now calaveras. Big Trees State Park but some overeager tree fans stripped that giant of all its Barak then shaped that bark back into new a tree and sent it on a world tour. It was a great way to give people in England sense of how big the tree was but did result in the trees death. Fortunately the death breath of the mother of the forest tree sparked such strong emotions that it led to the modern conservation movement. A greener future is better for all of US sequoias included. did I wonder if the mother of the forest was. One of the ant wives could've been cody would have been I investigate. Today's episode is sponsored by skill skill. Share make twenty thousand a year where you explore new skills deepen existing passions and get lost and creativity with skill shares online classes. What you find just might surprise the prize and inspire you? I'll be honest. I don't know anything about graphic design. I mean I know what looks good looks bad but I couldn't tell you why and since I've been working on some graphic stuff lately that's why I'm taking a class called graphic design basics core principles for visual design it happens to be taught by the CO directors of the graphic design. MFA Program at Maryland Institute College of Art so these are real educators with real experience. That means I know I'll be learning some quality lessons skill. Share is is a proud sponsor of curiosity. Daily explore your creativity. It skills shared dot com slash curiosity and get two free months of premium membership. It's two whole months of unlimited. Did access to thousands of classes for free get started in join today by heading. The skill show dot com slash curiosity one more time. That skill share dot com slash curiosity. It's hard to stay focused especially at work. Most employees are interrupted from their work fifty to sixty times per day. And let's be honest most most of these interruptions very important. This coffee is really good. Cody I'm trying to read something. How what were you saying? Felt like I was there but a recent article in Harvard Business Review reminds us all how we can cut down on time socks in distractions. When we're trying to work? How can we ignore those push notifications indications and slack vibrations to stay less stressed and be more productive? So we're going to break down the most important tip so you can actually go to work and well get some work done and the first step is to practice. Something called a synchronous communication so in other words you don't have to respond to every email within five minutes of receiving it. It's better for everyone. If you decide I'm going to think about this email and get to a later that leads into the next tip batch check everything. Don't just quickly check check through things all day long that kind of quick check of email social media and text messages can put you off task for more than twenty minutes even if the act itself just took a moment instead schedule. A time to batch check your email chat messages and social media accounts another tip. That'll make it easy to do that. Turn off your push notifications agents bats. Checking doesn't work. If your computer screen is always blowing up with push notifications. Just turn them off. Most everything can wait until your scheduled time to be checked and people might even respect that scheduled time when you put this three word tip into practice. Do not disturb this one's easy even if you're in an open plan plan office put on a pair of headphones and get in the zone. That kind of signal will quietly. Tell your colleagues that you're doing something important. That shouldn't be disturbed. Another game. Changer is to avoid playing calendar Tetris. Blackout time on your calendar for meeting free work time that way even if your colleagues have the ability to book time time in your calendar you can control when and how and stay focused on what you need to get done and finally stop using reply. All it's good to be held accountable able but it's also important to respect other people's inboxes and help them reduce unnecessary chatter. Only email people who need to be in on the message it will run through all these tips again again at the end of this episode. But I have to note at this point that just before we started doing this story. Ashes like hold on. Wait a minute I just got a notification like oh I gotta responded. It's one of those emails the middle of an episode. That's okay I forgive you for that unnecessary interruption. Now let me tell you. I'm a coffee. So what we learned today learned that the one thousand nine hundred seven Montreal Protocol set out to protect the ozone layer but ended up slowing climate. Change Yeah and I'm just so happy that more people now know the the giant sequoias the largest lifeforms on earth there are many that are two hundred and fifty feet tall and two thousand years old. And if you've never seen one you need to make a trip to California in. Hey if you wanNA focus better at work. Here's a couple of tips practice as synchronous communication. Meaning don't reply to everything right away. Batch check everything turn off your push notifications set aside some do not disturb time block off time. I knew calendar actually get stuff done and stop using reply all do we all really need all those emails. I love the stories of huge multinational companies where somebody accidentally sends an email to literally hundreds of people and then everyone starts applying all in seventy percent of those messages. I just made that number up and being please remove me from this right you know came from flying anyway so good. I actually have a friend that works for a huge company and there was an email chain with literally hundreds of people on it and I told them. Here's what you should do. It was right after the last avengers movie came out and I said you you should reply all but removed half of the recipients and just reply with an image of Fano smiling from the end of the movie. I was like you you will be the most popular human being ever I I was he. He didn't do it okay. That's that's probably for the best. He didn't do it because he not thought he would get in trouble. But I thought that was the most brilliant thing I've ever come up with. Because then it was his entire thing and the avengers movie as he wants to basically eliminate half of the life in the universe verse but like most people. Don't look at who the addresses like most people. Don't look at the address list. So would everybody get it. If they had gotten it it would have been the funniest Easter egg inside joke. hilarious thing ever. Maybe it would have been the best I stand by that and yes listener. You're allowed how to use that but it's not my fault. If you get into trouble just to you know creative thought to these stories were written by Steffi Drucker Ruben Westmis- and healthy dunk and edited by Ashley Hammer. WHO's the managing editor for curiosity daily? scriptwriting was by Cody Gov and Sonya hodgin curiosity daily produced and edited by Cody. Gov Join US again tomorrow to learn learned something new in just a few minutes and until then stay curious on the Westwood. One podcast network.

Montreal Cody Gov CFC California Sequoia University of New South Wales Sequoia National Park General Sherman Tree Hamer Trees State Park Harvard Business Review Death Valley National Park US Redwood National Park Steffi Drucker Ruben Westmis
Adapting Episode 2:Sequoias Black Swan Memo (with Roelof Botha)

Acquired

36:55 min | 8 months ago

Adapting Episode 2:Sequoias Black Swan Memo (with Roelof Botha)

"It was pretty good. It was yes it was pretty good. Don't doubt your vibe for not being as full-time GIG. It was pretty good. Emoji records thrown back. Welcome to episode two of adapting by acquired. Now you got it. Yeah well I rehearsed or for those keeping track at home season six episode five. We are continuing our series to bring you the stories of great companies and great leaders who are adapting to a world. That's changing in real time. Today we are covering the story behind the memo read around the World Sequoia Capital's Black Swan Memo Amazingly published only twenty days ago as we record. This man feels like twenty lifetimes ago. I know I know well. We are joined by the best person in the world to tell us about it. Longtime SEQUOIA PARTNER RULE OFF BOTA. Today's episode is different than last week's episode with canvas. We're going much closer to acquired bread and and butter of technology and venture capital. This conversation is particularly interesting. Not just to hear the story behind the Black Swan memo but also to get a real time. Look at how sequoia themselves are thinking about adapting during this time along with their portfolio companies. Before we jump in. If you haven't already we WANNA strongly encourage you to join the acquired slack community. I honestly think at this point. It's probably the best community on the Internet for people focused on building and investing ingred companies. We really mean that. And that's a testament to you all in the quality of people that listen to this show. That's been pretty awesome especially over the last week or so just seeing our all supporting each other in there and helping everybody get through this time so you can find the link on our website to get it in by. You should definitely sign up. The other thing we want to tell you about is as we announced on the last episode where adding something big to the limited partner program. That were really excited about. We're going to be hosting monthly calls on zoom for all LP's which we're calling appropriately enough L. P. calls signed David. Yes we're big into branding haired acquired so when you sign up for the limited partner program you get both all our l. p. episodes which go deeper on nitty-gritty Company building topics and access to the monthly LP calls with both of us You can sign up by clicking the Lincoln the show notes or going to glow dot FM slash quired and as always we want to thank our sponsor for all of season six and adapting Silicon Valley. Bank innovation happens when the status quote won't do and as the world fights cove in Nineteen Silicon Valley Bank pays tribute to all of the innovators healthcare providers and scientists social workers. Takeout chefs policymakers and philanthropists generous driven individuals. Working around the clock to keep people alive. Find a cure and help the world cope with the unimaginable. As phoebe supports innovative companies and their investors and have more than thirty five years it knows that innovation requires adaptability flexibility and unrelenting passion for finding solutions today more than ever as VP salutes innovators. Everywhere you can learn more at S V B dot com slash next. So thanks to and with that David. We will dive into our interview with rule off. We are super lucky to have rule off with us today. Rule off has been a partner at sequoia since two thousand three and lead early investments in some of the most important companies that we've covered on this show companies like instagram Youtube and square He currently leads the firm's. Us business one of sequoias three stewards along with Doug Leoni and Neil. Sheehan and prior to joining sequoia rule off was the CFO of pay pal which is particularly relevant to our conversation today. having helps navigate them through the DOT COM crash their subsequent IPO and ultimately sailed Ebay for one and a half billion dollars. Welcome Relief and thanks for joining us in these interesting times. Thank you wishes. Circumstances were different. But I'm glad to be here as to when we're glad to have you. Let's jump right into it on March fifth. You guys did something now. Seems obvious in hindsight but definitely did not seem obvious on. March fifth was which was yeah. I think March fifth two years ago at this point in cool rate of that people have been saying about some some decades. Nothing happens and some weeks decades happen. It's been about two decades. You guys released publicly. Both simultaneously emailed all your portfolio's and posted on medium What you call the Black Swan memo I'm sure most of our listeners. Fred Probably Multiple Times at this point. I just want to one highly one kind of quote from it that again. Probably everyone's read. But it's such a stark difference between what you guys said. And what so? Many other investors and people were saying at the moment he say having weathered every business downturn for nearly fifty years we've learned an important lesson. Nobody ever regrets making fast. And decisive adjustments to changing circumstances in downturns revenue and cash levels always fall faster than expenses in some ways business mirrors biology as Darwin surmised those who survive are not the strongest or the most intelligent but the most adaptable to change. Can you walk us through as you were writing this and getting ready to hit publish like what were you feeling? Internally Defensive Novus not so that the world wasn't really paying attention to the relative that we were facing we have the benefit of being a global partnership so we were seeing what was happening in China with with business and with our partners and what it was like to be under lockdown. We've been through many business cycles. Took waving around for forty eight years. We've been through so many of these cycles and we've seen this movie before and our saints was that people hadn't quite realized what was about to happen. It was like watching. An accident happened in slow motion. You can just you just see it and we felt the duty and obligation to do something about it. Well let's set the stage for folks. This was six days before the NBA announcement came out so it was sort of a week before the general American consciousness woke up and said Oh my God. This is a huge deal. Did you worry at all that you were jumping the gun? And and as a related question I mean sequoia is such a force in our ecosystem. Did you think about the risk of Gosh? Do we do. We incite something by by releasing something like this. We do which is why we do this very infrequently. The last time we did something comparable was at the end of two thousand eight with the rest in peace times memo which wasn't intended to be published. It was really intended. Just for our founders. Because we wanted them to understand what was happening and comes at a risk. I mean even the I heard from people back in two thousand and eight that we were the reason the crash happened like as if we had that kind of power. People complain you know. We're being alarmist and things like that but we really felt a duty that maybe people who are going to be uncomfortable with us saying these sort of things but we haven't obligation to tell people what we see coming around the corner. Someone challenged me and said well. What if it doesn't turn out to be that bad and I said if that's the case I'd be so thankful I'd be so thankful and I will eat humble pie having publish? This is so much more important for us to to put the word of warning out often. When you're in the trenches as a company you know you got a slightly different perspective on things especially if you haven't been through previous cycles and I remember when I was at paypal in joined in two thousand. The Nasdaq sought it. Slide in April and I remember being at a board meeting with Mike Mertz from sequoia in June and. He told us he wanted us. Focus on runway because the financing environment has changed forever and I think honestly all of us. Is You know first timers if you're willing to company. We didn't quite fathom that. We thought that we'd Experience. The loss two years would continue and he really rung the bell and we paid attention and that month when we really started to sharpen pencils to make sure that we had enough runway to make it to the other side. I'm super curious. Talked about this a bunch and and obviously a CFO. You were right there at the helm doing this. What were the things you did? I mean you were. I believe the first technology company to go public after the crash then had this wonderful exit. What were the actual things that you did to to save the company and to stay on a growth trajectory even through all this carnage especially. It's obviously a teammate. For driving I was one of many people of the company that rally together and I think that's one of the things that you see in this unfortunate humanitarian crisis. May I think the thing that's different about this? By the way as it's a house crisis in addition to an economic crisis at a global scale I mean that makes it so different from any of these other incidents we've seen and it's awful on many levels but I do think it's. It's very different from what we had back. Then but we rallied as a team and we looked through the piano man. I remember literally going through line by line on every single thing on which we were spending money to figure out what was truly essential helping us build a successful business on the expense. Line the things that you can control. We feverishly to raise more money to extend runway and we got religion about business model up until I think June Tannoudji twenty two thousand people in charge for its service and at that point. We realized we want to keep going to figure out a business model and make it make it a great business model. And that's exactly the kind of focus that we got because the external environment changed so dramatically constraints enable you to come up with creative new solutions. And so I think you're GONNA you're gonNA find an incredible array of entrepreneurs coming up with wonderful solutions in the midst of this terrible prices to go back for a SEC to the Black Swan memo. Can you talk a little bit about what it was over the preceding weeks before March? Fifth that you are seeing in in China and obviously through your unique perspective that can give you confidence that hey this this is a lot more serious than people are realizing in the US and elsewhere. I think we still how team in China immediately had to go into a full lockdown. Just sort of a dramatic change at a at a national level with over a billion people just not just in the province that was affected but everywhere that they were taking it seriously so clearly the the people at the frontlines had seen at this was a virus unlike others that was spreading lots foster and had higher mortality rate than a typical seasonal flu. So that just felt very very different and I think it was pretty obvious by then. They were cases showing up in the US. Even though there was a travel ban at one point it was just too porous. People could have come from China. That could've gone to other parts of the world and coming into the US and so it was quite likely but there's a bigger problem today in the US than we realize. And this is the unfortunate thing about the absence of tasting infrastructure right now in the country. Now I have a friend in New York who had it for eleven days before. He was confident positive. Last week. My brother in San Francisco. I think has its base. Conchita tested illiterate on contested. Because he's not a high risk group so I think we just had a sense of the problem is actually a lot bigger. You know there's the parable of the of the. We told the rice and the chessboard. You know the person wants to get compensated one to four etc. That's a great thing for people who study computer science but you know to to the power in becomes a very large numbers in gross and things financially. We just understand something that looked trivial twelve days ago but as doubling every six days looks dramatically different. Just two weeks until I think we we sold at this at the cusp of happening in America and so we rebelled this obligation to make sure that people paid attention and acted now. It's a great lead into something that David and I talk about a lot and David. I don't think I have shared this with you but I look up to you a lot in in the way that you think about playing defense and playing offense and being very careful about when is a time for defense in one is a time for our offense doing both at the same time you have to be careful what actions are for which thing and rule off. I want to dive in on defense right now. You guys have been putting out a reasonable amount of of content compared to sort of sequoia of old And one of the pieces. You've published rancher. Preneurs is this decision Matrix and I. I would sort of think about this as defense how. How should entrepreneurs use that? And then I'm curious to ask you some questions about offense so I wanNA give credit to one of CFO's in the portfolio. He doesn't WANNA be singled out to name but he developed this for a photo company where I happen to be on the board for Sequoia and I thought it was an incredible structure in that case. The company had sort of seven main scenarios with a couple of sub scenarios. And it's just wonderful framework to address the challenge you face because we don't know the state of the world or there's so much uncertainty right now but you know. I'll be actually going to reopen three weeks full weeks. Ten weeks isn't going to be taken wave I'm going to be. Are they going to be five? Waves the wilderness We don't know so thought it was a wonderful way to think about one of the various scenarios that may play out what strategies you could pursue and what does it do for you resulting cash balance at some future date. That is important and your end is as good as any. I guess at this point because companies need to survive cash is the most important thing companies have to focus on right now because if you don't survive obviously there's no trump suitable than enduring business. And so that's the reason I thought is fabulous framework and again. We felt we wanted to share it with as many people as possible and we did actually on Friday we had a QA station with over one hundred portfolio companies Civil partners hosted this coal and we shared with US companies and we just felt them that we wanted to show everybody now to ask the question offense this time is incredibly challenging for a lot of people and we should inouye gloss over that. I'm sure it's challenging for you. It's challenging for me yet. You can sort of squint and find ways to actually turn it into something positive and find perhaps a dislocation in a market or an opportunity. That's emerged that was never a need from people before and I just love to get your perspective on. How CAN PEOPLE BE PROACTIVE? And turn this into a positive. A couple of companies benefit from having to work from home and and things like that so the product we're using zoom is obviously benefitting to companies like loom in photo that are benefiting. The delivery companies are an essential service in my mind to make sure that we get food and get delivery of basic necessities companies. That are benefiting. You may not be one of this company so that doesn't really help you. The thing that I think really everybody can focus on in this time is product development keep on investing in your product sales mocked by definition are going to be challenged the next few months because people are going to shift their consumption. Behave your face to face selling. If you're an enterprise company is going to be hampered marketing channels maybe a flooded by the things and it may seem insensitive candidate for you to piddle types of products right now and it. Just not the right time. Hunker down and focus on product development. Build that truly differentiated products that if you can survive gives you a huge advantage junior. Come out the other side because part of what happens here. Use the analogy of of us. Namesake sickly tree next forest. Fires have been a part of the landscape in the US for a long time. And it'll often clear. The brush and the sequoia trees that survive interrupt thriving disproportionately wants to fire his cared mind. Because it's more sunlight and there's more space for those that survive and so you know you've got to wait your time out and make sure that you can pound with a truly differentiated product. Because the the competitive landscape is going to be here for you. After that I think the other thing to do just Was to look a community. So you know it's a lot of what we've been doing trying to get our founders together not only with this little retake older we doing now but getting founded to found a communities together so much ingenuity and so much good advice and tips that they can share with each other and also just kindred spirits. Can Shave suffering candidly. That's happening right now. So Dean into community. Lean into your product. I know you guys have done some innovative things creating spaces right now for portfolio companies. How are you doing that? And how are you interacting with them and then with each other? What at an individual level obviously board members and contact that they companies as we try to shave practices in addition to the Matrix which we should publicly a couple of other things that we've prepared for companies for unfortunate company that may need to go through a reduction enforced for example. We've actually prepared some spices that we've seen so can shape people on just help on them for some of the challenges that lie ahead we've created the CUNA with us as a group to get one hundred over one hundred companies get together with sequoia partners and we have a few prepared remarks things we've seeing and we open it up for questions. We were arranging founder to founder stations. Nossa quiet person prisons were. They can just industries that are relevant with practices. We're also doing that for. Cfo's could think a lot of the CFO's across the portfolio deal with similar challenges. But are they do about potential rent? Abatement what do they do to renegotiate it? What happened to that financing? That was supposed to close things like that where they can also get together and help each other if anything. This is also accelerated on desire to build even more digital products around our community. We've prided ourselves on this'll community things. We do activities like basecamp and amp and other programs. We have obviously those halted right now. And what can we do to to recreate as much as possible online as something we're working on? Can we circle back real quick before we get off playing offense for portfolio companies? I want to come back to your time. People had struck me that like. I didn't realize that people didn't have a business model or at least a viable business model until after the crash as I think about like the hierarchy of impacts of change you can have as a start up you know they're sorta like at. The bottom is like sales and marketing and then nothing sales marketing and then at the mid level is is product but actually the highest level. I always think is is changing a businessman. Now is kind of a really good opportunity to do that. How did you think about there was the necessity of okay? You need to make revenue now. But how did you? How did you figure out that business model so quickly during that time? A pay pal. Necessity is the mother of invention about dental to figure out that as a payments company they were so many precedents of charging transaction based fees. I think there was some other nuances where we figured out how to get bank accounts funding so that we have much gross margin than traditional critic. Con Processors did so some other things we did was had to figure out solutions to online fraud. Which took down. Many of our competitors was very expensive thing for us as well. We lost millions of dollars in two thousand two scalable online fraud. Part of what we talked about it. The company was at the end of the day. If we can't keep the company alive because people are willing to pay for the service we provide. We don't really have a reason to exist but we need to deliver enough value so that whatever we charge nieves enough of a gap of value captured to the customer with are happy to pay for the service we have and I think many companies may face that type of a crucible moment of the next six months if they've been free services ORB business model hasn't really been planned property but it's clarifying at some little. Yeah where you're really forced to show up in a way that says Hey I am delivering value here to charge for it. What's the quote about Warren Buffett quote? You know who has their their shorts on when the tide goes out. Man Trading is it. Okay give you another one that reused actually this week in a partnership which is calm seas never made a good sailor. Yeah and we've had a long period of calm seas. We have and this is going to be a time where I think you're gonNA see people differentiate themselves on how they deal with the crisis in a WHO steps up who provides leadership who reminds a company of the mission of the company the purpose that they have beyond just you know delivering a product. Those are the companies that I can really excel in a time of crisis. WanNa move US along to a section here that we're doing in adapting called adapting and really talk about sequoia itself and how you're adapting and I remember when we interviewed Doug he spoke of the war room days of managing the nine hundred ninety nine fund After the DOT COM crash. What is the Sequoia War Room of March Twenty twenty? Look like especially as you literally can't be in a virtual horror another thing which is challenging. We have our a biennial. Lp meeting next week just for context. It was originally supposed to be in India and then in January. We started to worry given what we were. Seeing in China's we actually moved in January from India to California. 'cause we thought they were going to be issues in this early. April late March. Climb Trimbe. I mean just concretely took action and then obviously having it in California started to not look feasible. So we've moved into a virtual Alpine meeting in the midst of preparing for a very important event for us. I mean our customers and we WANNA do going to have a great show for them in some saints and provide candid feedback reporting on our funds. The same time running around like crazy looking off trump would photo companies. The most important thing focused lost two weeks is all companies. Sequoia as a business. We've been around almost five decades. We're not in a in a dust. Fortunately but some companies really do face challenges and so we really aren't everything towards what is based companies with both a bunch of online tools so we have resources we can look at things. We have daily stand ups using zooms already can stay in touch understand what the participation is using a partnership within the partnership has so that as a team since we you know. What do you do to mimic the effect being an office together so that we just stay in touch a little bit more frequently and we've created these online resources and probably the most important thing we've done is to do a very thorough analysis as a portfolio health so literally company by company across every company in the US? We've gone down to figure out okay at your end. In December was the expected runway based on cash and Boone. Then what do we think it has now given the change? The circumstances in which of the two three dozen companies? We really need to spend most of our attention. Some companies only stage six people product development. I mean in some sense their unaffected. They're just building the product and hope to launch next year there are other companies that are really affected significantly as a team. We tried to figure out how to rally around them. And how do we bring resources to bear to help them navigate through this tricky period as you sort of frame that up around the portfolio companies? You know it sounds obvious that of course he would spend time with your portfolio companies. What are the things that you're not doing as much of that you would normally be spending your your days doing? And how has this time forced you to change? That seems like we're doing more of everything. No less of that too. I mean interviews. A slow going on we just doing the Mola's vigilant abuse. I do think there are probably wanted to hire somewhere way. You'RE GONNA wait to meet the person in person before you make a formal final hiring decision but for us. We'd on voting people remotely. We did this on Monday. We had a person who joined who you know. First visual on voting for us as patroller companies are doing. I was on a call today with a company on voter twenty. One people on Monday remotely and people are gonNA keep hiring and they're gonNA keep building products so I a lot of those things stay. The same will continue to make investments. We formally approved two new series in basements last week. And those meetings will virtual meetings business continues. Has Something changed in what you look for in companies compared to call it to three months ago? Something's not instantly not at the series a stage because I think the you know those companies. They're at such an early stage. Product needs to be so differentiated and really solve the problem that would transcend the current market. Obviously if the US is shut down indefinitely that's a different situation but you know these companies will have the sound value proposition and wants. Things are a little bit more normal even if the economy goes through a recession we believe in these businesses because really solving really important problems and so we have confidence in them. We have asked people how they plan to respond to a change in circumstance. Little bit of a taste on whether they are number of a flexible or they just tone deaf to the reality of the world. Where right now? So that clearly is a question we're asking that's different and then we're also spending time thinking about what new categories may be unfairly favored sort of post chronopoulos in. Do you end up with digital health companies online education. A bunch of things may change and always forced into a behavior change through this environment wherein out that sticks. I think is a really interesting question. A lot of people are thinking about this. I think it's a really interesting thing to try to conjecture that's the perfect transition to the topic. We wanted to wrap up with you on. I was thinking about it when you mentioned your your LP meeting next week. Which meant I feel for you? I know how important those are having done. Them attended them and everything and it was interesting. Just yesterday I attended one. Virtually and it was amazing that it was actually better You know these tend to be pretty dry affairs. This is a small example but other through the L. P. meeting or or more. Broadly have you started to think about what can permanent changes to sequoia? Might come out of this. But we're going to be. We don't really see the way. Companies have becoming more distributed partly because of the cost of living in the bay area is so high and the cost of firing engineers are just so high. We've we've already seen a trend where companies are willing to tolerate remote work by individuals own multiple remote development offices. I think that trend is going to gather steam. I think you're going to run this experiment. That's actually measurable on how people perform in this kind of an environment. So I think that just objectively is going to change the debate. Because I think it's so easy as humans. We resist behavior change whenever weekend. And this is forcing heavy chain. So I think tolerating businesses that a distributor. I'm learning how to work effectively with distributed teams. I think we're likely to see people start. Companies in many more places and again. That's a train that had already started. You know Silicon Valley doesn't have a monopoly on idea generation and I think many more people will start companies elsewhere. me to be more willing to fly If not fly given a health issues do online assessments of company so I think. Those clipper mentioned Euler organized. At least happened to this point geographically for a company and I think are going to be a lot more of these like Zappia right lake. We had weighed on the show. They have no office. How are you going to think about a company like that in the future is that a? Us investment is that a global investment. Well you know. Honestly we've run into a couple of conflicts like this but I don't actually think of them conflicts. Our Team in India is invested in a fabulous company called fresh works most of Frisch works customers on the developed world including the US so my guess is majority of their revenue comes from the US but it was name basement out of our India office. Because that's with a company based in the presence in the US too but we help them. We're one partnership globally. We've some really clever things behind the scenes to make sure that we feel like a single partnership in how we share knowledge and share compensation and things like that in a way that makes it feel good and I'd rather have more of those I mean. That's a great problem to have honestly. There's a lot of folks talking about the sheer amount of dry powder that has been committed to venture firms in this climate. So they're saying you know the funding won't slow down because Oh my gosh. There's this just billions and billions and billions it's been promised to venture firms so therefore deployment should continue at the exact same pace. How do you think about that and probably too early to tell but have you thought about? Should we slow deployment? Should we change when we WANNA RAISE CERTAIN FUNDS? Should we change the mix of Initial capital deployment versus follow. On's does a climate affect something like that for you guys so the two questions they. I think the one is one of the what's the LP behavior and the other ones. What's our behavior and so the interesting thing in two thousand and eight? Maybe not because we have a crystal just because we felt things with a little frothy our investment pace had slowed down the first off of two thousand eight before. Leeman happened and then we accelerated in two thousand nine. So I'd know if you've ever done a driving course but I went to one once in a formula one racing track and the thing that they told me. Is you break hard as you can. While the cars going straight before you get to the corner and then you have to figure out how to accelerate at the right point at the apex out of the corner so that you can sprint ahead and this is exactly the analogy that we won't apply for our companies and for ourselves. You know we slow down and twenty nineteen not because we had some crystal ball or game that this was going to happen. Things didn't quite feel right if anything. I want to accelerate out of this. I think it'd be fabulous investment opportunities and great companies to be built. So so that's what we plan to do for appease outlined so almost exclusively these endowments foundations nonprofits. We're really proud of the the great causes represented appease We actually got an email this week. That about ten of our people like Cleveland Clinic Johns Hopkins University the Wellcome Trust Stanford. Mit All working on. I the Bitter Diagnostics. A potential treatments. Vaccines Full Corona virus. So we love the fact that our clients are doing these things when regenerate prophets it helps them do these sort of things I think our clients are relatively well protected but if you talk about the industry at large I suspect some. Lp's are going to end up with cash flow issues just like there are many other businesses. They'RE GONNA end up with cash flow issues and that may the margin in lower. The amount of capital ring deployed over the next year or two. But that's total speculation. I duNNO L. Peace had already allocations to venture and private companies. Bradley had already gone up so much for. Lp's just with the ball run. Evaluations on the private markets and lack of liquidity over the last ten years now with public markets dropping. So much you can get into a situation as an LP where you aim to have say fifteen percent of your assets in private markets total and now you have forty percent of your assets in private markets and that can be a scary position that LP's May say Castro issues on their right so part of what we saw in two thousand and two thousand nine or some Alpay's have ongoing commitments also commitments. If you're an endowment to the university you probably represent more than half the expenditure at the university and it may be that donations. Dry Up rights philanthropy shrinks in an environment. Like this and so. They're even more dependent on the nominees being able to continue to pay for teachers and keeping the school hospital going and things like that. So so the rush of Castro issues that may also drive people to pull back from venture capital. But it's still early to tell me that you know. Look at the gyrations every day and the stock market and like flip. A coin is it plus and minus injured. I I'd figure out a way. Things were recording this. It's only been twenty days since he wrote the memo get it feels like twenty years all right now before we finish our conversation with rule off. We'd like to think Wilson Sensini the official legal sponsor of season. Six of acquired Wilson. Seaney is the premier legal adviser Technology Life Sciences and growth enterprises worldwide as well as the venture firms private equity firms and investment banks. That finance them. So thank you to Wilson Seaney. We'll rule off I know this is adapting and not acquired but we have one bonus question that that you know we. We decided if we ever had you on the show after doing our deep dive on on square doing the square. Ipo We had to ask you. What was it like navigating the challenging square? Ipo and the months afterwards sort of knowing what what what a predictable and good business it was but just seeing what happened in the public markets after IPO. This was like a key moment in history. We we can look back and kind of to the pre square. Ipo episode and the Post Square veto episode because it was just such a stark story to us of a company that was a great company that had just even in the bull market run that we were in when they went. Public was so misjudged. It was really difficult. And I you know in the run-up to the IPO. Because you have this quiet period. We couldn't really respond and I felt as often happens with these. Ipo is that now people just keep on on this negative vicious cycle of negative press and so it was a re painful to deal with that and then you see the IPO price at nine dollars. And I was arguing the night before that we should price a little bit hired Lee so we have more in the balance sheet and then to see the way that pop up to a statement still not a great outcome even at the close price at the first day but I found that we left so much money on the table so the way to react in my mind was to rally the team and to talk about just you know Recon Controller Stock Price. Would we can control is our execution and I think the management team did an incredible job of saying it is what it is we got through it. Let's hunker down malicious build a great business and they did that. And then what we did as an investor. Is We patient? So we didn't distribute a single square share until four years after lie. Pr Four years. And so that that we distributed and we haven't distributed by the way. Because I have so much faith in this company. It's still on the board correct. I'm still on the board. I love working with the team working with Jack. I love the mission of the company around financial empowerment. And the fact that we're able to do that now not only for small businesses but also for consumers square cash shop. I think is it's fabulous company From emission point of view and actual financial results and my partner was and myself. We would just really patient than so the fact that it was nine dollars. Shit. Ipo didn't matter because we distributed shares when he got to eighty and so at the end of the day we made a much better return for our limited partners by patient. And I think the team also appreciate it us as patient baster. It's great thank you for sharing and that's a good note to end on with this moment in time to rate like For for companies. They're going to survive. They're going to hunker down and now is not the time liquidate your shares on the London. So real problems on that note rule off. Where can our listeners get? In touch with you with sequoia my first name relief at Sequester Cap Dot Com great in. Are you on twitter? Yes afterlife signed up in two thousand seven now he's GonNa use it for a long time. Awesome well thank you for joining us. Listeners we hope you enjoyed the Sepulvado of adapting please send US feedback acquired FM at gmail.com or join our slack. And we'd love to talk to you. They're rule off. Thanks again. Thank you thank you David.

US SEQUOIA CFO partner sequoia China David Black Swan product development World Sequoia Capital founder India Silicon Valley Emoji VP
A Story about Forests, People, and the Future

Inquiring Minds

42:47 min | 4 months ago

A Story about Forests, People, and the Future

"James Alta. HR is a Weirdo and I I don't exactly know what his whole deal is but his podcast James Alter show has guests like Richard Branson tyra banks, Andrew. Yang Coolio Danika Patrick and six hundred others. He asks them weird questions and even though they tell him the secrets of their success and I want to point out that he approved this. Even though they tell them the secrets of their success. He seems like a complete loser anyway, check out the James Ultra show that's eight L. T. U. C. H. E. R., James Ultra show, and again he approved this copy if you like Bachelorette crazy. Set to take place during a global crisis November's vote will have far reaching consequences and not just at home but around the world. The Financial Times are journalists are examining the impact of the election on America's response to the health and economic emergencies at faces What will this mean for business? Steer from crisis to recovery with the Financial Times Read More F. T. dot com slash new agenda who am betty at banana season bills and Joes and Janes will find in the Study of science a richer more rewarding life. Hey welcome to inquiring minds I'm Andreas contests. This is a podcast that explores the space science and society. Collide. We Wanna find out what's true. What's left to discover and why it matters. Probably like many of you join this pandemic, I've spent more time reading fiction than I normally do it's a way of escaping the reality of our current world and one of my favorite books that I just finished was by Richard Powers it's called over story and I'm not the only one that thinks it's great. It won the Pulitzer back in twenty nineteen and was shortlisted for the man Booker Prize. It essentially tells the story of a number of different tree activists but also about the trees that they're trying to save, I can't do it justice. I'm very bad at describing fiction and why it's wonderful. But this story really made me think differently about the trees that surround us. Mostly it me think differently about timescale. About how a tree can live hundreds of years if not thousands of years and so the things that it experiences are out of very different rate compared to how we humans perceive time. And that got me wondering about climate change. Normally. What I think about the biggest threat to trees I think of logging deforestation essentially humans using the trees for their own purposes I don't really think directly about climate change although I know I've heard about different kinds of fungi and Beatles and other ways in which trees have been affected by the climate. But it got me thinking about the science of how trees are affected by climate change and luckily for me across my desk had just come a book by a writer named Zach Saint George called the journeys of trees. In this book he talks about the trees themselves, the people who love them are trying to save them and the future. Zach Saint George Welcome to enquiring minds as expert. So at the moment, I'm looking at my office window as we are building a deck and by we I mean people that I hired because I can't do that but we have this big pine tree, which is in the middle of our yard and it's amazing to watch them try to navigate the root systems and all the things for this tree. which we love but this tree really is the dominant character in this whole part of our block, which is kind of. Its roots are going everywhere. It provides all kinds of shade and yet here we are spending all kinds of money to avoid cutting a town which seems like the thing to do. Right. This tree is older than than we are. And yet so much of trees are getting cut down and blighted, and the way that we look at our world there's a huge difference even from one hundred years ago of how much of the earth is populated by forests. So can you tell us a little bit about your interest in trees because it doesn't sound to me from your bio that you came added from us sort of strictly conservationist perspective. Yes right I mean am excited to hear that you're you're preserving your pine tree I think that's a good move but the yeah, you're absolutely right. I kind of a previously a pretty fair weather tree fan. You know nothing really specific in my life that that made me super interested or aware of trees I think like most people saw them as you know sort of part of the background. My interest in a specific way and grew with this book and began with this trip to Sequoia National Park in the fall of twenty fourteen. California's you're probably aware was in a major drought and the trees were losing their needles. And the scientists at the park never seen anything like it. So I wouldn't talk to them and. They were kind of for the first time considering a future where maybe these iconic trees weren't going to be able to survive in the park. And just thought that was really interesting and it got me interested in the future of forests and. The idea of trees as sort of more mobile and dynamic characters than we usually imagine. Yeah I mean unless you're a fan of the aunts and the rings, we really tend to think of trees as being rooted to the spot. In fact, a lot of the metaphors in which we use trees are about staying still. And yet your book and also a reason Pulitzer. Prize winning book by Richard Powers called the over story really talks about the migration of trees and I thought it was really interesting that you start your book which is called the journey of trees and you start with the biggest trees in the world sequoias which presumably haven't traveled very far at least in the last thousand years as they are. So let's start with describing the sequoias and how even these very old massive trees are essentially migrating. Yes the sequoias. They are the biggest trees in the world for people who haven't seen them there they. Really look like they're carved out of rock like they're they're just giant and monumental. They're just as as thick as a school bus tipped on its side and they really just give the impression of permanence and. The park itself is named after the giants or Sequoia National Park they were kind of one of the Drivers of early conservation movement in this country, which of course was about preserving them. So yeah, they really just give this really. Permanent impression this. Geographic of defining, have this way to them. But you know they're they're individual creatures and. A tree once it's rooted, it is pretty much permanent until it dies. There are some exceptions, but it tends to be pretty expensive once people decide to move trees around it has been done. But as species is collections of individuals. Even the sequoias are mobile. You know every time one of their sees lands in a new place. The species has shifted a little bit. And so. You know even if the generation is thousand years long, it's still a a mobile dynamic collection of individuals. And you can see that over time and you can see that in the fossil record. Species like sequoias move all the time and what causes them to move in the case of trees is changing conditions changing climate. And that is less describe a little bit of a but some of the mechanisms about how this is possible I mean you know trees have different ways of dispersing their seeds. So let let's talk. Maybe we'll take can take us a Koi as as as an example how is it that the next generation of trees a fines more favourable environment? Trees are. An example plants in general I mean trees are kind of the shape of plants that most people care about. So seeds have all kinds of different mechanisms some of them like coconuts floating around you have maple leaves which are helicopters to get a little bit away from their parents. You have oaks with ACORNS that may be squirrels or something carries around at other others are wind blown. So there's all kinds of different ways that the seeds can get away from their parents which is. Desirable because you want a space of your own, you don't WanNa be trying to grow up in the shade of your parent plant necessarily. So? Yeah. I mean the. Plants have evolved all number of different ways of dispersing. From a an observer's perspective, it seems that that dispersion is relatively random and yet in your book, you talk about how that there's a kind of intention. To it I don't. I'm not saying that the that the seed has a brain and legs in it like you know finds his perfect location. But like tell us a little bit about how what are the forces of natural selection that kind of or of nature I should say that make it more likely that the seed will then grow in an in an area that is. At least in that moment better for that tree. Sure. So one way that science has kind of have laid out the three basic reasons that. Species even individuals to some degree are where they are and not where they're not. So the first being. A biotic conditions. So he in cold and moisture and. Sunlight and things like that. The second would be biotic conditions. So what else is living there? What what do species? What other species are present in the neither maybe eating? Each other or out competing each other in the third is a movement so Basically the ability of the species to arrive in a suitable place. And so. Basically you think about a species lake, the giant sequoias, and so the places where they're at currently. Reflects a place that where conditions were suitable and they also manage to arrive. And so you're right it is. Seed by seed just just falling to the earth is very random. Why you have sort of the average location. will stay the same over time if the conditions stay the same but as conditions change, you have kind of the the spaces, the places where seeds survive or don't survive changes, and so over time the distribution of the species changes and it moves. And sometimes in our efforts to conserve trees, we actually make it more difficult for them to stay alive. So in the case of the sequoias, describe how preserving and actually putting out fires was doing actually a lot of damage to the trees. You tell us about that. Yeah. So that's kind of the classic story of Biology, which is Kinda, the story of unintended consequences. So yeah, the sequoias European Americans encountered them in eighteen fifties the native peoples in the Sierra Nevada had, of course known about them for many thousands of years. But these European Americans arrived and pretty quickly said, wow, these are really huge trees that would be great to cut these things down chop them up and. You know that would be fantastic use of these huge ancient trees so that started to happen and pretty quickly. You had kind of early conservationists trying to prevent that from happening. So one of the earliest national parks in this country was Sequoia National Park and then what became Kings Canyon National Bark it's sister park but the problem was Kinda it was good to separate these trees from the loggers that was good but then kind of the people in charge of the parks also. Tried to prevent fires burning through and it turned out pretty quickly that that was maybe not the right thing to do because fires have kind of kept the ground open and actually opened up the cones of the giant sequoias and be back their competitors. There had kind of always been fires whether it was started by lightning or lit by native Americans in the area, and so pretty quickly the groves became overgrown stops getting young sequoias. And by the nineteen fifties, it was pretty clear the. Conservation has had made big mistake by trying to preserve the trees and protect them from both the and from fire and surreally over the last sixty years. Now, fifty years maybe people have have spent a ton of time and money and effort trying to reintroduce fire to the groves to kind of restore them to their pre your European state it's been quite difficult. The thing that always kind of makes I think boggles my mind and makes it hard to even conceive of of how to save these trees and how to or you know how to live with them in harmony is that we we live on such different timescales Sequoias average lifespan is what thousand years. Is that about right or You know that's not necessarily. A might be stepping out a little bit to answer that. But certainly, I mean they they can get up to three thousand years so. Yeah and so and If you think about where humans were thousand years ago, life was very different. So it's hard for us to even conceive of that kind of slow growing and yet the trees provide so much richness to our species in terms of like there are so many chemicals that we get from trees that you know. We haven't even discovered all of the possibilities of that could potentially be used to ward off different bacteria or are. You know other illnesses Then there's just the whole oxygen thing which is great Shade. There's just so much that trees give us. So tell us a little bit about sort of the. The ways in which harvesting a tree especially one like the sequoia for would probably the least useful thing to do. I have to agree with you I think the early conservationists. Who worked to preserve the giant sequoia as were absolutely making the right move I don't think cutting them down was probably the thing to do particularly we know now we're very focused. We liked trees as Carbon Carbon sinks you know they'd take up carbon in the process of photosynthesis and And that's great because we currently have probably more carbon dioxide in the atmosphere than we think is good. So old trees do a really good job of of removing carbon dioxide and so for all these different reasons, cultural amenities just. Conservation. There's all these good reasons not to go down old growth forest. That said I mean I think one of the things that were confronting that's that's really difficult. Right now is the realization that these are individuals and Vase sprouted let's say thousand years ago at this point that was quite a different world, the conditions where they're living quite different and it seems like the conditions are going to change and continue to change. So we're kind of beginning to confront the reality that these old conic trees, not just sequoias but old iconic trees around the world are eventually not going to be able to survive where they're at. So then the question is what comes next. You Start Your book with is really interesting story about a tree in Florida that got stuck. It was a really great metaphor because or great image at least for me 'cause like I, think of all the trees that are suck I think of the Pine Tree. In my yard that is stuck, you know and yet that was problem even though it was, it had all kinds of blight thrown at it phone fungi and everything else would tell us that story. So yeah. There is a street in Florida called the Florida Theresa or Toria depending upon who you ask. and. So it lives on the in a small patch of the Florida panhandle overlooking the APPALACHIA coal. River. Ended been. Quite. Local confined to you know some dozen square miles a pretty small area but it was locally common. And then in the nineteen fifties, it all the trees the Tarez started dying. And when it seemed to be was fungus. So various scientists and conservationists, state and federal agencies kind of. Looked at it and said, shoot, it has this fungus. Feeds to of preserve it in botanical gardens and SORTA studied the fungus but really didn't make a lot of progress in saving the street. It was it was kind of in a steady decline in Florida. And then this woman named Connie Barlow came along in the early two thousands and she was a a science writer that plan she she now. I don't know what what she calls herself now but at that point she was Evangelos. Evolutionary evangelist. And she thought the problem was not actually the fungus and she thought the problem. was actually the tree had gotten stuck in. Florida. In the species she thought should have migrated north at the end of the Pleistocene at the end of the last ice age eleven thousand years ago, and for whatever reason, it hadn't been able to go back north and so two gotten stuck and. She thought that it was out of step with the climate that it would like. and. So the fungus was actually a symptom that she thought it like polar bears zoos will sometimes get algae on there for turn green. and. So she thought the sentence the solution is pretty simple which was to move this tree north, and so she got a group of volunteers together and started sending them seeds. All across the eastern united. States. And that sounds like a great idea until you talk to an ecologist and they tell you about the dangers of introducing a non native species. Right. So again, one of the favourite stories in biology is the story of unintended consequences. And when you start Talking about trees especially in the eastern united. States, really the the the story that you keep hearing over and over is of people moving species around and low behold the species gets away does terrible damage. So we've had in the eastern United States American. Chestnut trees were killed off by blights that was introduced from. Eastern Asia. We've had a American elm trees killed off also by A. Fungus from eastern Asia. Right now, we're having ash trees killed off all over the Midwest and east and Um Spreading West. And so the lesson has really been yeah. We should kind of keep things more or less as they are. We should keep ecosystems basically as they are if we can when we're trying to restore go systems, we want to restore back to some baseline. Basically, the way things looked at a certain point in time, which tends to be you know before the arrival of Europeans. and. So this idea of of moving a species to save it basically release into the wild somewhere north or upslope really flew directly in the face of that. Nowadays managing. Your mental health is essentially a fulltime job from one wellness trend another. It's hard to know what to do or even where to start, which is why San Velo has rethought how you manage your mental health no more waiting rooms no more switching between. APPS and no more having to go at it alone. Sandra has therapy coaching meditations, peer support goal tracking, and step by step guided journeys based on cognitive behavioral therapy all in one place and most importantly San Velo is totally customizable to you San Velo checks in with how you're feeling so. You can track your emotions and progress over time and learn what works for you and what doesn't you can think of San Velo as a place to feel better anytime anywhere plus it's covered by insurance for thirty seven, million Americans and growing you can get free access to San Velo premium and coaching for two weeks by visiting San Velo dot com slash minds get the support you deserve on your mental health journey that Sand Velo S.. A. N. V. E. L., L. O. Dot, com slash M. I. N. D. S. San Velo a place to feel better. Today's episode is sponsored by masterclass with masterclass, you can learn from the world's best minds anytime anywhere at your own pace. You can learn about skateboarding from Tony Hawk, or you can learn about creative writing from Margaret Atwood with over eighty five classes from of truly world class instructors. The thing that you've always wanted to do is closer than you think masterclass hooked us up with an accountant to try out and I've already signed up for like twelve courses. In the last week I've gone from deciding that my calling is film scoring after watching Hans Zimmer's class that I should probably be a writer after watching Margaret Atwood's class that I'm definitely meant to be Gardner after watching Ron Finley's class. It's so good. There's so many different classes from people that are actually interesting to listen to and I think you should check it out. The way it works is accessible on your phone, the internet or your SMART TV an annual membership to access. All of that is one hundred and eighty dollars a year and I actually do think most enquiring minds listeners would be into this I have loved it so far you can get unlimited access to every masterclass and as an enquiring minds listener, you also get fifteen percent off an annual membership. You just have to go to masterclass dot com slash minds. That's M. I N. D. S.? So it's masterclass dot com slash minds for fifteen percent off masterclass. So one of the really surprising facts about trees that I recently learned about is this idea that they can communicate. We can think of the the tree is essentially having. A nervous system, the way we think of it in in animals, but there is a way in which they can send off signals and and then those signals can be received and I, I wonder if you could talk a little bit about that and the sense that maybe in a kind of very slow scale one that we have a hard time conceptualizing because it's so different from our lifespan, you know trees have their own. Way of talking to each other and. A potentially protecting each other or protecting the forest. Wrote I. Think Trees Certainly have some kind of awareness. I didn't delve too deeply into the so-called would wide web, which is how many people have termed this. Yeah. I. Think Tree certainly have some kind of awareness. I think it's easier strange anthropomorphic. When you're trying to explain what that is but yeah, they share nutrients between the routes through. Michael, Rizal now work. So those are symbiotic fungi, the either coating tree roots or embedded within tree roots even. I have to confess. This book is is really a lot about. A lot about people and I get less into trees themselves as being I don't. Delve too deeply into the experience of the tree with a couple exceptions in one of those was. In Quebec I went to a plot in the forest that scientists had laid out a with a forester and he showed me device that was pretty cool. It was called the Dent Drama Theatre and what it was basically a piston that was attached to the side of the tree in it. Recorded basically. When the trunks swelled and shrank and what you could see it. Kind of looked like a like a heart rate monitor and basically the tree swelled at night when it was cool and funny moisture in its trunk kind of shrink during the day. When it was hotter, there is less moisture available and so did have this kind of dynamic day by day experience that really. Surprises me was kind of the first experience I had had. Of a tree as kind of a a being that experiences life by day because Yeah. You do tend to think of trees as kind of. Almost geological. You know they can live for thousand years or five thousand years in some cases so you don't really think of them. kind of having a intimate experience with each one of those days. So. Let's talk a bit about the people in your book because I agree with you you know. The trees are interesting and you know the people maybe because we're all narcissists deep down are even more interesting. So you know, we have already kind of stereotypical notion of the tree hugger and this idea of a of a person who puts the life of trees above and beyond industry above and beyond the needs of of human beings and and there's a lot of reasons now, which we can see why why that actually might be better for our species, not just as species of trees, but it certainly does seem to be a particular type of communities I. Wonder if you could talk a little bit about how true is that stereotype and what were the surprising things about the people that you met in this journey? I think the the archetype of the tree hugger do exist certainly, and I met a few of them. I met one gentleman in particular in New Zealand heat unfortunately just for kind of narrative reasons didn't make it into the book but you know he he he didn't wear shoes and was bearded. Had Hawaiian shirt hidden was certainly the closest to Laura Acts I've ever met in person so you know there is kind of. The architecture goal tree hugger and I, certainly experienced them. But I think the thing about trees is the kind of everyone is familiar with them and everyone kind of loves trees. So I met all kinds of people and. Everybody. had a favorite tree. People would always take me to see their favourite tree in. You know I have a bunch of pictures of people with their favorite trees. So I think. Sort of a broad swath of humanity really likes trees. It's kind of like you're almost like bird people can be a little obsessed. The other commonality that I found between people that I interviewed in the book. You know these people are confronting a lot of changes. I mean I had talked about the idea that that perhaps giant sequoias redwoods or any of these these old iconic trees. The, realization of climate change is the realization that at some point, these trees won't be able to survive where they are and you know it's not clear when. The point is you are looking at a future where things are. Really. Different from how they are now different in some kind of painful ways. So I met a lot of people who were sort of looking at that future and really morning it but at the same time, kind of continuing to try to do good and try to. Work on some. Small task, the DOT could be helpful in the future. Sometimes even not worrying too much about the results to sort of you know this is how I can be useful in this case, it often involved trees. So I think that was another commonality I found. So. One thing that stands out in your book, you start you book with it. You end with that person you almost end with it and she features all the way through his one that we've already talked about it was Connie. Barlow. You describe how you know you would you would wake up too many emails from her and the kind of passion with which she she worked on this problem I wonder if you could talk a little bit about whether Connie was just really a singular character amongst the ones that you met or whether there's something about this this this this idea that we need to conserve trees that that really engages a lot of passion and people and why that might be. Yeah Karn Connie. Barlow is a very interesting person. I. I met her will by email i. think in I was just looking I think October two thousand fourteen or excuse me maybe twenty fifteen. But anyway she she's the one who decided to move this Florida Theresa North Dakota. She's kind of at the center of this controversy over the idea of people moving trees north. And? I would say that yeah. I. I think if the if that wasn't. How she decided to change the world she she would've been doing something else I think she's very much an activist spirit and I was interested in her as kind of A. someone to learn more about and kind of as a as A. Central character my. Book. Because of that activism, of course, because of the controversy that attracted. But also because she, she really embodied what I was just talking about kind of that spirit of acceptance and sort. Of. Trying to do good despite long odds and Despite kind of the awareness that maybe you as an individual can't do too much to. Leave the world a better place in. Seeing that and trying to do something anyway. So I think that's what interested me in Connie Barlow. So I just WanNa remind our listeners that Zach Saint George's book, the journey of trees, a story about forests, and the future is now available at booksellers everywhere. So let's talk about the future and I think you know I want to start at the place where the future seems to be coming more quickly than elsewhere. Where change is happening every single year, there are new record set and that is a close to the Arctic where we're seeing such strong effects of climate change. Can you tell us a little bit about black spruce and the other trees that are being affected in Alaska in other parts of the world that are close to the Arctic? Circle. The boreal forest is one of the biggest biomass on earth that stretches across. Canada and Alaska, and across Siberia into Scandinavia and It's kind of characterized by. Of course, harsh conditions, cold temperatures long summer days long winter nights much of it was glaciated during the ice ages. You tend to have kind of poor soil conditions in a lot of the end. So I focused on black spruce, which is is kind of one of the. Really. Dominant species of tree. In North America stretching all the way from. Newfoundland, to Alaska. It was a tree I. really familiar with wrong up in Alaska there. Really scraggly Kinda. Dusty, dirty looking treaties they tend to grow in wet ground there. The famous trees of the drunken forests they're the one, the trees that tip over. When permafrost thaws look really disheveled, and so the reason I was interested in black spruce is because they were a good example of how rapidly and dramatically forests can change with slight changes in conditions. So the black spruce forest like I say, it stretches all the way across Canada from Newfoundland to Alaska. Is You've spent any time driving through Canada or Alaska. It just seems to go on forever. What the fossil record shows us is that actually it's pretty new it's only been around for about five thousand years in Alaska in its current state. And before that, you had a pretty different forest. Of. White spruce. which is a relative, and then before that you had a forest is mostly deciduous. So Birch and cottonwood trees. Just these these three really dramatically different forests. that. Have lived in Alaska since the last ice age. and. They've shifted one to the other you know in a matter of centuries. So pretty dramatically over this huge area to have a completely new source of your. And really, what did it was these small shifts in climate that we had during the the Holocene bought in each of these shifts I it was warmer than today and drier, and then it got a little wetter and then you had a little cooler and wetter and it became like today the climate became like it is today that's when you had the modern forest appear. So it was just it's a good example of how quickly. And dramatically, for can change in response to small amounts of climate change even smaller than what we're expecting. We often hear about the effect that melting ice will have on our ocean levels and so forth. But we don't often hear about sort of how just trees dying out because of climate conditions, sort of what the negative effects will be there other than fewer trees and and potentially than an accelerated warming. there. Any other kind of surprising things that you learn about as now the the conditions are changing much more quickly than the trees can adapt to. I think actually the the sea level rise is a is a great, almost a a a metaphor or counterpart for Um what's going to happen to for US I? Think we're all fairly familiar with the idea that you know as oceans rise due to thermal expansion actually warm up, and then also the addition of melted ice from our polar ice caps in Greenland? We're familiar with the idea that sees will rise a little bit little bit each year. And you know that's that's something that's fairly subtle. You goes up I don't know how much each year but kind of day to day you wouldn't really notice that. But then also there's these big effects like we have. Acidification of the oceans and these bigger storm surges and more powerful hurricanes. So we kind of have like a quiet side allowed side to sea level rise and I think of the same thing applies to. The changes that we can expect from in forests and so the quiet side is that you have species ranges shifting northrop slow towards the polls. If you're in southern hemisphere, you have some species becoming more common others becoming less common. But then you have this kind allowed side, which is tons of trees died during a drought and a whole landscape suddenly goes brown or you have this huge fire we've seen in California and. In all over really. As smokey and just kind of horrible. So there's there's kind of this quiet side that we may or may not notice and then also the catastrophic side. And you describe another one of those which was that the category five hurricane that destroyed a lot of the Florida trees that we started talking about. Yeah that was just kind of an example of. Why rare species species that are rare in isolated are in greater danger not just because one gonNA small accident or natural disaster can do a lot of damage to the entire species. So yeah kind of at the end of. My reporting I went to actually visit the flirted Tarez there on the panhandle and just a couple of months before I visited Hurricane Michael had swept across the panhandle and really flattened area. So I actually even able to see any Florida trays in the wild because. The quark before the storm had been a a tolerant forest, the all these huge trees, and the Florida Ray was kind of an under story tree. But. When I went all the big trees were down and it was just a tangle, it was a big mess. So the the Rangers at the park, one of them drove me down. To the spot where he thought we might be able to see one but it was too. There's too many down trees and So that just wasn't even possible. I mean the way you describe it it really does sound like the botanical garden is now the zoo of trees where you know might be the last place where you can see certain species. Then it's just it's to me it's really interesting to hear. Start to think about and talk about trees as a set of species that we need to protect and preserve in ways that are quite similar to a lot of animals that we know more obvious to us what their what their pro plays. Right well, you know. I was. Really concerned with this question of should people move species north Or really anywhere we think will do better as a method of conservation and the reason was is because it is a controversy flies in the face of how we've done conservation for a century. reporters, I'm drawn to controversy but I do want to say that you know the botanical gardens and arboretums are doing really important work. They're doing what zoos have done, which is collect seeds and. Whole plants all over the world just to have backups. And and so I think the idea of assisted migration moving species around is really interesting and I think it will probably become more prevalent over coming years but I do think just. having the possibility. Of the species existing in the wild. As represented by these seed banks and Living collections in botanical gardens and arboretums. Important. Well as we spend more time in our home, staring out our windows I hope everyone of our listeners has a tree somewhere in their view that they can gaze upon Zach. Do you have a tree that you can look at? Trees here in Baltimore. There's none in my yard, but I've got plenty around me so. Well Zach Saint George thank you so much for being on enquiring minds anything so much. Well. Certainly won't be cutting down our pine tree anytime soon, and as I gaze out onto it, I appreciate its lifespan would it adds to us the shaded gives us and I'm a little bit less annoyed about all the pine needles that continue to fall. So that's it for another episode. Thanks for listening and if you want to hear more, don't forget to subscribe if you'd like to get an ad free version of the show, consider supporting us at Patriot dot com slash inquiring lines and especially thank David Noel Herring Chang Shawn Johnson Jordan Miller Kyle Rae Hala Michael Gow, Goule Eric Clark, She Lynn Clark, Lindgren Joel Stephan Meyer, a walled Charles. Inquiring minds produced by Atom Isaac, and I'm your host indre this contest. You can find me on twitter at injury this next week.

Florida Pine Tree Zach Saint George Alaska Connie Barlow writer Richard Powers Sequoia National Park sequoia San Velo Financial Times California Danika Patrick Tarez Canada James Alta Booker Prize James Alter Richard Branson
164 - VENEZUELAN ELECTION SYSTEM - Here in the US?

Republic Keeper - with Brian O'Kelly

56:31 min | 2 weeks ago

164 - VENEZUELAN ELECTION SYSTEM - Here in the US?

"A jazz band the microphone bringing from the forest in washington. This is sick bro. Look for republican. You should find us. And let's kick off today like every other by thanking god for good health and the ability. Be you're sharing with you. Thank you for your time. Attention energy interest. And hello again. From wisconsin's ron christie current. So i'm from wisconsin. Originally christopher and thanks for joining the program is running born in milwaukee. Saint luke's hospital so You know raised on On i know words that no one else knows for wisconsin. You know what these things are. And i'm it's a test. I'm not gonna say it on the broadcast if i ever meet you. And you save from wisconsin. You're from wisconsin. I'll give you a little test and we'll see if you pass because there are certain vernacular that literally you. You don't know it if you're not from the state or the general area so anyway we all going on guys in. I'm if i wasn't reading this and seeing it with my own eyes my own intellect ability to sort through things here. I don't know if i would think this is a true story. It's it's so fantastic goal as to be in. Hollywood hasn't dreamed this crap of so. What am i talking about well. It appears that our election. The united states has been hacked and co opted by software actors from outside of the country. That's what appears and so. That's a big claim right. Let's see if we got anything to back this up a little bit history a little bit of background here because i think it matters and i think it will help you get some context for why i'm saying what i'm saying so in this goes back a little bit and today won't be as much audio clips. There's going to be a little bit of history lesson here a little bit of a history class. And i hope it's not boring to you and i hope that that this is the reason i i've studied history and i pay attention to things. Because eventually things come full circle and you can tie things together and relate them right so here is a little history lesson in nineteen eighties mid seventies late eighties. Venezuela was an unbelievably wealthy country especially in the mid seventy s. They had a as much oil as the middle east. They were part of opec and so when the opec oil embargo happened in the us. Remember and seventy three seventy four. So you guys aren't old enough but if you remember if you're old enough to remember gas lines and gas rationing and is an odd day or even day. Can i buy gas. Today is how we did it in. America because of the oil crisis forced on us by opec and venezuela was part of the opec group that forces also so for the us economy. It was rough but for the oil producing countries. It was it was happy days. Are here again. They were making tons of money. Okay and the saudis. Were getting fat. The emirati were getting fat. Even the russians were getting fat. And the venezuelans were all making tons of money. Now what happens when you have enough capital and opportunity flow into a system. The way they did in venezuela. Is you get corruption. you don't have to want it. You have to invite it. You're gonna get it you know have corruption is just part of the deal. There's a lot of money and their constitution. Unlike our's didn't have some of the same checks and balances. There were a lot of oligarchs for lack of a better way to say a lot of monopoly type of businesses that controlled many things and you could buy and sell a congressman that kind of thing in venezuela or whatever. Their national assembly thing was. There was a lot of corruption and corruption was had created a lot of what we have here. And this is what happens. Is you get to a low. Trust society right. We don't trust the courts. Don't trust the media. We don't trust the police re don't trust the banks we don't trust anything and the venezuelan society had moved into a place of a low trust society because of the corruption in the government. Well that low trust society created an environment where people thought about doing a coup. And who saw this was one of the guys who he was a Military colonel i believe. I don't think he was. Generally as a colonel doesn't matter military leader. In one thousand nine hundred two hugo chavez decided he was going to try and takeover venezuela with a military coup going to replace this corrupt government with what he saw as a righteous government and like most young ideologues. He probably probably thought he was doing. We tried to take over. The government tried to force a military coup in one thousand nine hundred two now. That didn't succeed. Nf standing on the on the steps of the capitol saying to people. i apologize. our efforts didn't make it. We're not in power here. We didn't succeed and as he was giving the speech pretty much right after he was arrested and put in prison two years later. One thousand nine hundred four candidates sympathetic to hugo chavez and the revolutionary idea gets elected a year later. Maybe years later thing was one thousand nine hundred six this same candidate who is elected releases hugo chavez and everybody else involved in the coo coo releases them from prison in clears their criminal records so now. They're he's out of prison and he's they've clearly criminal record while the corruption that he originally started the coo over wasn't any better in venezuela six years later you know so in one thousand nine hundred eighty eight hugo chavez announced that he was running for president of the country and in the first election the he was running against the the basically to corrupt power parties or empower. Everybody knew that they were both corrupt. It wasn't like there. There was no loyalty to these parties. They had kind of sprung. They've been there but the everybody they were corrupt and switched power back and forth. But it really was your people say. There's no difference between the republican. The democrats not true but in minnesota there really wasn't much difference between corrupt party. Want so he go. China's runs for the presidency and wins in one thousand. Nine hundred. eighty eight wins. Well what does he do. He does what every communist dictator does. He starts. Implementing socialism right. He nationalizes the oil companies nationalizes. The banks nationalizes everything. That is really important. He says these guys can't be trusted with this these companies. They're dirty rotten capitalist with the profit motive. They're going to hurt people. We need to take this over. Make this the people resource so they did. Well if you have a robust oil industry like they did and in any industry there are expenses to maintaining the industry and part of the expenses is having professionals on your team who understand how that industry works right and people who understand this stuff. Don't work for free right. They got to get paid and they don't get paid and just a little a lot right and so you have this oil company. That's got execs in it. Who understand global operations global distribution. They understand the infrastructure and capital requirements. That are going to be coming on the business and her. Stand all this stuff. What is covered. Do fires them. They're corrupt business. People there profiteers. They're making too much money. Let's get rid of all of them many looks at all the upgrades and things necessarily make the oil industry and he says that's too expensive. We need we need to do a better job with education food and basic housing. So we're not going to invest in the infrastructure here for oil industry that finals all thing and we're going to invest in this other stuff. Well the the quiz like you know your car needs an oil change and you say you know what i'm not gonna do the oil changes but i'll tell you what i gonna do. I'm gonna repulsive the backseat down the road. You got the nicest backseat of anybody. But you're run and this is what happened the venezuelan economy and it didn't take long time a matter of two three years. The venezuelan economy had completely collapsed. We saw fast the economy turnaround under president. Trump here it could turn around the other direction just as fast and the same happened in venezuela they put in place these Communistic laws communist are a communist right put in place these collective type of laws that remove incentive in the economy. And what happened. The economy tanked so comes around. They they were six year election cycles. Their five year presidencies to be in with job gets elected six months into the presidency. He votes to have the vote chains. A lot of making a six year term gives them an additional year. Okay fine two thousand four comes aroung. It's time for chavez to run for reelection right and by now Charges pretty unpopular in venezuela. Okay trump is not the guy anybody wants to know in venezuela he is. He's a problem. He's he's a big issue and he's not popular and internationally the international observers. Who were who were looking at the election. At that point said that that the polling they were doing inside of venezuela had hugo chavez pulling eight percent some as high as twelve percent but the vast majority of people didn't want to continue in power. So they have this election coming. You think my goodness if that's a fair free election this guy can't win right because eighty percent of the vote. How does that happen well. Same way that kim jong un gets ninety nine percent of the vote and the chinese premier. It's ninety nine percent of the vote and you know the castros always got nine percent about the same way. That's how he has got this big percent of the exact same way. They did it the same way. They've always done other cuban communist countries right. They stole the election now. Everybody knows everybody knows that. These kami You know banana republic countries at the elections aren't fair. Everybody knows this is not news to you. It's not news to me. It's not news to anybody right well. The way they did it in. Venezuela is the election that swept chavez into power in ninety eight. Was the first election anywhere in the entire world. That was done all by computer. Tabulated boat counting. I ever chavez one now. Maybe he didn't win fair and square. Maybe you did. The has became enamored with electronic voting. So by the time the two thousand four election came around. The cia visas in venezuela had formed a new company and a new electoral electoral process. Commission is what they called it. I believe i might be wrong. That does matter to an electoral board in the venezuelan government. We have three branches judiciary the legislative and the executive they formed the elections division as another branch of government that oversight over the others and the other side another check and balance. The election board was a separate part of the of the thing well in so doing. They established a company called smart maddock. Smart a us company. They used a company called smart matic and smart matic and sequoia systems became the company that was involved in running the voting system. Minnesota well this same company and so we go to the new york times. Now bring up to speed on this This is two thousand article from the new york times. So this is a you know. Fourteen years ago. This predates president trump. It predates joe biden predates the current controversy. This is back when people were concerned that the bush administration because of some relationships with debold or somebody else we're gonna agree cooking elections and so the left was concerned about this in america at that point. Here's what the article says from new york times. The federal government is investing the takeover last year leading american manufacturer eletronic voting systems by a small software company has been linked to leftist venezuelan president. government of president hugo chavez the is focusing on minutes waylon owners of the software company. The smart matic corporation and is trying to determine whether government caracas has any control or influence over the firm's operations. So it says the agree on the eve of the midterm elections being conducted by the committee on foreign investment in the united states or cfius. The committee's formal inquiry into smart matic and is subsidiary sequoia voting systems oakland. California was first reported. Saturday in the miami herald officials both smart matic. Venezuelan government strongly denied yesterday president chavez's administration. Which has been bitterly at odds with washington has any role in smart matic quote the government of venezuela doesn't have anything to do with the company aside from contracting it for our electoral process the venezuelan ambassador said so these guys are are owned in venezuela in part there have a subsidiary in oakland Sequoia voting systems a us company minutes venezuelan company. Okay so what. That's two thousand six fourteen years ago. Who cares who cares about some fourteen year old article from the new york times. Does that matter come on. Kelly give me some relevant two thousand twenty who on the trump election. Let's talk about that. Okay let's see well mcclatchy news services another pretty well respected news service article march twenty four th two thousand nine. It is Article most electronic. Voting isn't secure. Experts say experts. So here says the cia which is been monitoring foreign countries use of electronic voting systems again. This is march twenty fourth two thousand nine eleven years ago have reported apparent vote rigging schemes in venezuela macedonia ukraine and a raft of concerns about the machines vulnerability to tampering during last month before a us election. Assistance commission field. Hearing in orlando florida. A cia cybersecurity experts suggested the venezuelan president hugo chavez and his allies fixed a two thousand four election recount an assertion that could further royal us relations with the latin leader. The money still set. According to a transcript of his hour long presentation that mcclatchy obtained i follow the vote and wherever the vote becomes an electron and touches a computer. That's an opportunity for malicious actor. Potentially to make bad things happen. Two thousand nine. Cia says let's not use electronic voting systems so we come back from the break. I have some stuff to show you about how these electronic voting systems have been abused and misused and then will relate that directly to the way. They've been abused and misused in this current election to apparently steal the election from donald trump and a disturbing and back in an back. Welcome back to keeping again kelly. I am the program trying to look at the camera and anyone watching stuff to work on this company. We welcome to the show. Those renew the way. This works reporting soul. I ask people to help with three things and he told us no big swift production company behind this. Tom sold i'm on my own. And you're on your own with me. So i asked for listeners viewers new three things Number one pray for me. I need wisdom insight balanced and actually Got to tell you would my men's Bible study group last night. And what a blessing it is to have other men to pray for me. And i'll i'll tell you if you don't have that Or women you've done or on your team have your back Boy i'll tell you what you know. Find a good church because it's there's nothing like having people who have your back i think. Anyway that's a little side now The way i ask people to support the show is three simple things number one. Pray for me number two Subscribe hit the subscribe button and share. What you're what you're seeing hearing if you think it's valuable and lastly support the show financially in and buy a huge shoutout new fifty dollars a month Supporter last night. I'm not sure i'd have to check them. See if you want to be named. But i'd get shot by. I wanna make sure. That's okay before i do it. Regardless thank you and you know you are catch up with you later today so now this election system so what has been the result of that and is there anything that we should be. I mean should we be concerned about has have they hacked it anywhere else. I guess the question. I mean you know it's one thing to say that we think that the venezuelan company hacked venezuelan election. And all that. But you know this software. It's a software company right so they sell software and more than one place and we should probably be able to get some kind of an idea of whether or not they are Had difficulties in other areas right. Well turns out that in venezuela itself. The had a problem and here is them reporting on that. Let's see if this works. Hi everybody thank you very much For being here. I'd like to teach because provided election technology and support services in venezuela since two thousand and four evening moments of the political conflict and division. We have being satisfied that the voting process and the account has been completely accurate. It is therefore with the deepest regret that we have to report that. The turnout numbers on sunday. Thirtieth of july for the constituent assembly in venezuela were tampered with base on the robustness of our system. We know without any doubt that the turnout of the reason election for national constituent assembly was manipulated. It is important to highlight that similar. Manipulations are mating manual elections in many countries but they go undetected because of a lack of electronic security and auditing safeguards. So what happened. Why can't we stand by the results of breeze venezuelan elections where we cannot endorse the elections. Last sunday are ultimately election system is designed to make to make it when results or manipulated however there must be people. Auditing the system and watching for that evidence. During the national constituent assembly elections there were not auditors from the opposition parties as they did not want to participate through own came out with an audit would allow any everyone to know the exact participation. We estimate the difference between the actual participation and the one announce by the authorities is at least one million votes. It is important to point out that this would not have occurred if the auditors of all political parties have been present at every stage of the election. Reggie so boom boom. Let me him. Let me translate that again. I wanna make sure you understood what he said he said because of the use of electronic system they could catch the tampering in a way that they could have never caught it with paper ballots. Now that's partly true partly not true. You can catch you with paper ballots if you do a hand audit but in scale. There's no way to look at a room full of ballots and say well percents of were cast beyond these. You know after the deadline because there's electronic way to view all those you could hand hand view them all and then you would know but there's no no way to view them in mass. And so what he's saying is that their system provides a way to catch tampering. The system only works if somebody from each side is reviewing the process. If you don't have somebody from both sides reviewing the process then you have the potential for tampering. If a potential for the vote to be hacked and so That's what happened in minnesota and is with the other thing he said is is that they're reported count was off by a million. Now what's a million in our country would be a big deal. Were three hundred twenty nine million people. I don't know what the population of venezuela's but it's considerably smaller. So they're all by one million. That's you know whatever. I if there's a third of us it's the same as three million here right. There are a fifth of us is the same as five million here. These are large large numbers that the software is able to be Gamed into making the mistake on if you will whether that's intentional or unintentional doesn't matter the preventative from both sides. Inspection from both sides has been prevented all the way. So let's learn a little more. These software systems. Okay now again. This is all. Let's go back to go in order here so Re disa- mature at this right here on the last time. We heard about flipped votes for american. Last time heard a flip votes Was in venezuela's two thousand and four fraud plagued recall referendum. That's what we just played the video clip from right and says that computer scientists from stanford her stanford uc santa cruz. John hopkins and harvard. All found evidence of vote flipping statistically speaking besides their conclusions that it was just to school impossibility a well-known pollster penn shown in berlin taking exit polls at the time of the found that sixty percent were in favour of throwing chavez out forty percent wanted to keep him much to his surprise. The scorecared came out and almost the exact reverse fifty eight to forty two in the final election on exit polls. And so says. Here's what there's reasons the reason is because there are machines that flip-flop votes okay. Now sounds crazy right. sounds crazy. So here's what it says is unlikely to be hidden in a human readable language like java c pearl plus plus and they could read and point out. It's more likely that incipient season be hidden in a compiler perhaps to reassign operations that adjust by some fraction very few people in the industry wide open. Pandora's box to inspect the elements few would be qualified at cetera. This gets into a whole bunch of tech jargon that we don't want to get into here because it's gonna lose us in the weeds. But the upshot is that all of these Known electronic fraud things all of them all of them that are known about come back to the same companies software all the fraudulent elections around the world that we know about all the ones that that mathematicians and cia people in experts say. This can't be that result could not happen. You don't have a thirty five percent increase in voting. Turnout doesn't happen in a two year period. You don't have twenty five points swings in people's affection for an idea set mathematicians. Look at these things go. Yeah that's so. Far out of the statistical norm that it doesn't work and every time they can they can find that it's related to this company and the company is smart matic which is owned. Now by dominion was acquired by dominion software and so in in two thousand five sequoia was required by acquired by smart matic and now Dominion denies having anything to do with smart mattock but they own sequoia systems. That acquired smart matica so three years ago wall street journal had an article about this. And here's what the wall street journal had to say. Three years ago and says in venezuela says iras peres. Aw rigas travelled by canoe for three hours to deliver the paper receipts showing a total of two hundred twenty. Five votes cast for the state governor in his hamlet then he passed them to his aunt who drove a further hundred and fifty miles to the ball of our state capital when the official count was released just days after the october fifteenth election. However there were four hundred seventy one votes. The government's candidate it wasn't just mister peres. The opposition party election monitor. Who noticed the rule the ruling socialist. Party's own election supervisor now. Cassava realized that to this is illegal said luciana mendoza. The election supervisors who showed the wall street journal. Voting machine receipts to count it just a third as many votes from the hamlet as reported by the electoral authorities. They say bring justice but instead they commit fraud translation. Let me say it again. They the guy carried two hundred and twenty five votes from his town. That's how many there were there. Were two hundred and twenty-five not two hundred twenty six now. Two hundred twenty four. There were two hundred and twenty five votes from his town. The official count showed four hundred. Seventy one the over vote difference was for chavez. This is exactly more my words. This is exactly what happened in georgia. This is exactly what happened in pennsylvania. This is exactly what happened in wisconsin in georgia trump was leading. So what do they do they. They made up a phony. Our idea about a water main break. That never broke to shut down the voting so that they could bring in the additional ballots. That's what they did so now we we move on and this dominion voting systems is a canadian company. Headquartered in denver there one of three companies that are that are involved in our election security and implemented north carolina. Nevada georgia michigan pennsylvania. All the states. Where an issue dominion is there now. Here in the state of washington dominion is is used and we just had a reelection of jay. inslee that Frankly i expected jay inslee to win but the margin i found to be unbelievable and so it'll be interesting to see if an audit is done of the vote here or of the. It's done everywhere. I would assume that if we can determine fraud actually occurred with these systems that literally every place where they were used would have to. We'd have to be challenged at some level. I would think So i used in new mexico in two thousand thirteen used in nevada in two thousand seventeen. According to a penn wharton study. They reached seventy one million voters in sixteen hundred thirty five jurisdictions in the us in two thousand sixteen. Okay so now. The in two thousand ten and two thousand and thirteen dominion was sued and They lost litigation. We're smart matt. Glitches alleges the impact of the two thousand and ten thousand thirteen election mid-term elections in the philippines raising questions about for cheating and fraud and independent review of the source codes use. The machines found multiple problems which included the software inventory provided by. Smart matic is inadequate which brings into question. The software's companies reliability asked to provide evidence to investigators. Smart matic provides inadequate evidence. Now none of that means it's smart. Matic cheated this time. Does it none of that. Means that but apparently At least you know rudy seems to think that does mean now whether he's right or not. I guess we'll we'll determine but he seems to think that it does and part of the reason is because of things like this and this is a piece of video of the election official in milwaukee who's in charge of is heard about these one hundred thirty thousand votes that were transport transported midnight right or one hundred sixty thousand votes that were driven across town. So what happened is they were. They were coming to a collection center and then they were tabulated. And then the vote. The ballots and the tabulation was driven across town under armed guard. And they will say well. That's the way it's supposed to be well. Maybe except that the tabulation is supposed to be supervised and is supposed to be supervised by both parties. Here is some video of those hundred sixty thousand votes being run through the machine by one individual. The milwaukee ahead of elections ran those hundred and sixty thousand votes through the machine by herself with no observers next to her. The only people there are press observers filming from a distance. And you'll see that in the film serves a camera. Walking toward a woman is standing in the background. Those you on the podcast and saw audio stream in the bad at a terminal the terminal and she is looking at the screen and machine whatever that means operating the machine and she's reading out what's in there not real into nobody near her. So whatever's on that screen. No one can see sites you photographers. Back and forth talkers. Impress people kept backing under row. There's one woman back you're operating machine. And this is apparently the head of milwaukee elections operating the machine and this is the woman who after those roads tabulated hundred and sixty thousand votes. Were during across town. Atta the count. Well where's the republican observer whereas the democrat observer or is worse even another poor it's four. Am she's there by herself. She's been running these votes through the machine by herself and she drives him across town. There added the total. There's no observers. And so what did the guy say in venezuela our systems only work. If there's someone there to check to see that's the only way they work otherwise. Our systems are subject to fraud and fraud. Folks is exactly what's happened this time. Way back with more of that being stolen from us concealed him. Podcast question i've got on my mind is Cooking really congress not sell senate fifty four to forty four wouldn't says america lawyer role momentum and conservative country fundamentally four of wall molly four things like free and fair elections were four things like free speech even if the speeches bothersome to you. We're four that stuff we're not for any kind of way of doing it right for lack of a better thing to call him. He just call it the comedy thing because it's so so dismissive but the communist way the totalitarian -tarian way of thinking where government makes all your decisions about what you think what you believe what you do. I'm kinda personally not on for that in a big way and that's probably where to somebody but So they have tampered with the vote and a rudy says so some say well i think one of my friends said the other day i really saw crap. Okay well that's fine. You can think he's full crap but the question i have for his. Why why do you think res for crap. Do you know something about rudy. That i don't know. Is there some reason that route is not trustworthy. You know i don't. I other than association with president trump. Which people like. I don't know of a time. Where rudy wasn't truthful with people or or you know he hasn't been busted for crime. He hasn't been disbarred. There's been no acusations of fraud. The bora thing was obviously a setup. He's not even you're not even a hint of sexual impropriety about the guy that at least that i know of Doesn't mean there isn't. I just don't know about it but i. I don't understand why the hostility would be to rudy either way here. He is so mr mayor. One of the things that a lot of our viewers have asked about is particularly this diminutive voting software. This software that was used in michigan and in antrim county. They had joe biden up by thousands of votes. They claim there was a software. Glitch was discovered it was fixed and then it turned out. The president trump was actually up by thousands of votes. We know that you and your team have been investigating this at this at the present time. Do you have any whistle. Blowers inside dominion who. You're speaking with well. I wouldn't call whistle blowers we we have a. We have a person who's come forward with an affidavit inside of gaming in grad has said that the million observed the hundred thousand phony balanced abroad. Inner four o'clock in the morning on november says that we're all by balance that appeared by every measure would be phony balanced. Stay broaden backdoor. They went out of the property owners. Sticking out of the paper bags and cardboard and they were told that east war balanced renita to catch up and trump trump was too far ahead when they were counted. They were all counted shaver of biden. Woman who has given us an david working dominion shed that and she saw not a single trump vote there for four or five hour meeting to her to be a horrible corrupt. When she reported nothing was done about she was told wasn't business. So that's that's that's not a whistle blower on the record in our lawsuit in michigan which feel pretty good about the loss of a hundred thousand vote fraud. Do we have other witnesses to that somewhat. Reluctant to come forward right now. Yes we can probably corroborate that three or four times. So i think they've finished on that. I think that's something that actually happened. One hundred thousand votes in all biden votes was not even a vote for another democrat. Kay so one hundred thousand votes are all biden village. They weren't you know they're over another democrat so then another this runoff. Election here with jonathan. These guys in georgia. And i think that was he was talking about pennsylvania there but if they had really focus a little more they cooked the books on more elections is what rudy san because a lot of these Ballot or by only ballots. He has to be read too. But i live again. There's some really excellent reporting on this and it's in it's in written form and there there's no video or audio on it and i don't want to miss it because it's really. This is really good stuff and bear with because this gets a little technical but it's again it's the truth that sometimes is complicated and we can live in the jake tapper soundbite world if we want but i prefer not to enjoy giving example here on the screen here. Got jake tapper tweet yesterday. Fourteen hours ago Latest insanity from hill republicans house. Gop leaders timber. Carthy says about president elect joe biden. I don't know of healey president. I don't know he'll be. He'll be present january twentieth mccarthy says because he knows what's going on and so jake tapper puts it out that that's that's insanity apparently right and the democrats will do anything they can distract us from recounting and examining this vote in portland or find city to the south of seattle here. No way out on the left coast. Those the rest of the country mayor ted wheeler yesterday. Here's the priorities in portland. The language of documents that guide the city should reflect our community today. The council council authorized the city. Auditor removed feminine and masculine terms from the city charter. This important step will make our documents more inclusive of all gender identities so the mayor of portland is focused on inclusive gender identities. Well there's riots in streets there and these guys insane. So but i'm gonna you're gonna not be the person who thinks in terms of two second sound soundbites bear with me while we get into this dominion voting systems stuff because this is an argument. I want to make sure this is a podcast that you could share with people and the arguments are here so here. It is jeff carlson who is becoming fast one of my favorite reporters in the epoch times which is also becoming faster publication. I am respecting quite a bit. I haven't seen their reporting to be wrong yet. Sometimes a little hyperbolic but not wrong so jeff. Carlson says software equipment from dominion voting systems. Using this month's presidential election has been the source of ongoing controversy with one legal declaration made by plo observer georgia state wide primary earlier this year hall highlighting multiple problems. So when brad's ravensburger the secretary of state announced the hundred and six million dollar election systems purchase dominion last year in july. Critics contended that the new system was subject to some of the same security. Vulnerable does want. He was replacing. So he's putting this new election system and they're saying the reason we're doing this because our old election system isn't safe so people are saying well you're spending on one hundred six million dollars in this one. Has the same problems. Okay so in october. Eleventh order just prior weeks prior to the presidential election. Us district judge. Amy totenberg agreed with the concerns associated with the new dominion voting system. Love october eleventh. Just a few weeks ago month ago. Judge amy totenberg agreed with the especially new divinity voting system writing that the case presented serious security vulnerability and operational issues that may pay a place plaintiffs and other voters at risk of deprivation of their fundamental right to cast an effective vote. That has accurately counted folks. This is so important every illegal. Vote reduces the effectiveness of your illegal. It dilutes year legal. Vote every vote. That's phony a dead person that comes in late. It reduces the effectiveness of your legal. Vote the vote that you properly cast the vote that you took the time to agonize over pray about and all that that becomes less effective with every with every illegal vote right so despite the course misgivings totenberg ruled against replacing the system right before the election noting noting that the implementation of such a sudden systematic change under these circumstances cannot but cause motor confusion and some real measure of electoral disruption so three weeks before the election. Judge says. yeah that's systems. That's messed up but even more before you not to use so go ahead. In august twenty four th declaration from harry hurts her. St he's an expert in in electronic voting security according to paper here. And i trust the about times checked his background so i'll leave that here. Maybe he's wrong maliciously for the sake of discussion. That he's a good guy. Okay of her. Sti had been an authorized expert in inspecting observing another the coalition for good governance and so he summarizes finding those following. So here's what the guy says. The expert number one the scanner and tabulation software settings being employed to determine which votes count on hand mark. Paper ballots are likely causing intentioned votes. Be counted so the software is setting aside. Good vote number two. The voting systems being operated in fulton county in a manner that escalates the security risk to an extreme level fulton county is atlanta atlanta. Fulton cobb county. Atlanta voters are not reviewing the ballot marking device printed ballots which causes amd generator results beyond audible trustworthy audit trail during the observation of peachtree christian church in atlanta hersi noted that the scanner would vary in the amount of time it took to accept or reject a ballot her stated that a dedicated system should not experience variable delays and noted that we are always suspicious about unexpected variable delays as those are common telltale signs of many issues including a possibility of unauthorized code being executed hershey reserve varying process times at different locations further raising concerns as identical physical devices should not be a differently while performing the dental task of scanning a ballot. You translate that a little bit on a dedicated machine. That's not connected to the internet running the exact same process. The two machines should take the exact same amount of time. It's only the connection to the internet or some other kind of code. That's president one machine. That's not in the other machine that will cause a delay in other words. if they're getting differ result there is actually a different process in those machines her. She stated in his sworn statement against sworn statement affidavit deposition under penalty of perjury. I do solemnly swear sworn statement hershey's sworn statement that his presence was requested by two poll-watchers at the fan plex polling location are observing certain unexplained anomalies upon arriving hersi observed that for reasons unknown on multiple machines while voters were attempting to vote the ballot marking devices. Sometimes printed test ballots as her during the election day. The ballot marking device should not be processed or printing any ballot other than the one. The voters voting stated. This was indicative of a wrong configuration. Given to the ballot marking device. The issue also raises other questions as minds. Number one widen device print only test balance number. Two how can the device changes behavior in the middle of election day number three is incorrect configuration originating from the electronic poll book system number four. What are the implications for the reliability of the printed ballot and the qr code being counted during runoff elections on the night of august. Eleven so this is just in two months ago. Her she was president at the fulton. County electronic election preparations center to observe the quote upload of the memory devices coming in for the district's to the dominion election management system server during this observation. Her he noted that quote system problems were occurring and the dominion technicians operating system. We're struggling to the the upload process. This is two months ago on the exact same system that ran in that was used in georgia that a judge said a month three weeks ago a month ago. They probably shouldn't use because they had so many problems so he went down to the election system. They're having issues with uploading. He says that it appeared the dominion personnel. Were the only ones with knowledge of and access to the dominion server as hersi status declaration in my conversations of gilstrap another fulton county elections department. Abc personnel they profess to have limited knowledge of or control over the election management system server and its operations so the people running the elections said. Yeah we don't know how that works. That's a black box to us. We don't know how it works. It's just a they we hire them. They do it. We don't how it works provokes vote-counters notice the people who are the vote counters or pointing to the cyber saying well there the vote counters k. Her noted that this. Wholesale outsourcing of the operation of voting equipment of the vendors personnel was quote highly unusual in my experience and of grave concern from a security and conflict of interest perspective hearst for dominion onsite operation and acts as as an elevated risk factor. Her she also noted that the dell computers running the dominion cer- appeared not to have been hardened the process of securing a my reducing it software vulnerability her. She said he founded unacceptable her. An ems sir not to have been hardened prior to installation. So let me give you a little bit of translation on that. Everybody has a memory. Stick right we've all had memory sticks memory cards right. I think i got here this one right here. This is awesome this when the gift for my sister so little in. Usb up the camera shooting has usb stick. It looks like a guitar. Cool right. And i use it in a present for my sister and i use it sometimes to move things one computer to another or from one place to another Put a proposal on our presentation going into somebody else's place using their machine disease right. What happens when you stick a little. Usb thing what happens you will sound right little ding meaning whatever little sound and then the next thing is the window opens out for the for the the folder. Right your little drive now. What that's called in the computer terms is mounting drive. You have mounted a drive now. You can set your computer in such a way that when you put the memory drive in the computer will not mount it. You have to tell the computer to mount it now. Why would that be important. Why would it be important to have a the system. Not mount the drive. Well let's say. I take this little by little guitar. Usb thing here and it's got some militias code on it. Well if i put it in the computer and it mounts to drive the malicious code goes it's right. That's all these happened if the drive is mounted the code. Can't you pulled onto their right. And so what they found in looking at these is none of the dell computers had been set up in such a way to prevent external code and things to be from being executed by anybody and so Ms reed again finishes up voting system. This is hearst. He quote dominion voting. System is new to georgia than windows. Ten operating system of at least the main computer in the rack has not been updated for four years and carries a well known a range of well known and publicly disclosed vulnerabilities. Are you kidding me. You i mean if you don't have your machine set up to automatically update you're you're a moron because there's new vulnerabilities excuse. My french there's vulnerability is discovered with these things every day. Right and the responsible companies. And that's windows mac. The software vendors and most microsoft all the different care who you're us into it quickbooks. Whatever when they're vulnerable. He discovered their software. They released patches right because if they don't they've got huge liability so they released patches to fix them and what the what the guy saying. Is that the main computer running. The software in georgia hadn't been updated on the operating system for security vulnerabilities in four years. This is an unsecure system by anybody's measurement. Now let's just say for sake of discussion that it was an unsecure system but let's say the system is systems. Superstrong right got a must have all kinds of rolling encryption and difficult passwords and audit trails and all. That kind of stuff ought to be in it right. Well guess what guess what. Dominion software uses to count two private keys that would allow somebody to control their systems remotely and those two private keys are used in all of their systems in every location and because of that there's no audit trail. You can't tell who made a modification you can just tell that a modification was made. But you can't tell who. You can't tell where you can't tell when you can't tell anything so the question that i have on the table is now that we know this. And along with the fact that the courts of thrown out all the late ballots in some places. I don't know if we're going to have a new election but it kind of feels like maybe we should have a new election sauna. Just show you pull up the electoral map here. And i want to give you a sense of where we're at today Because here's what's going to happen. And i believe this with all my heart you can go ahead and correct me if i'm you know laugh at me later okay. Georgia is a trump state. North carolina is a trump state. Florida is a trump state and arizona is a trump state and iowa. Okay and ohio. None of these are really question. These are toss ups here on this map but this is how they're going to go. Post recount minimum. Okay now. I think that trump won michigan and i think trump one wisconsin. And i think it's the same three hundred and four one last time. I also think there's a possibility that we may find out. That trump flipped virginia. We'll see that one. I'll leave in the light blue column at this point but the reality is this is how i see the map. I see trump winning three hundred and four to biden's two hundred and three. And i think after the election after the the hand recounts and the fraud is all out of it. We're not only going to see. The trump won the two hundred seventy electoral votes. I think we're gonna see that. He won the general election and that the dominion software and Just plain old fashioned driving ballots in late and bringing ballots and after the deadline between all of that were to see the trump on the popular election. And we'll see. Maybe i'm wrong and and you can laugh at me shortly but i don't think so. I think this is exactly where it's going. The books had been cooked. And these are big claims made by big people and big people. Don't make these kind of big claims not at least in mass and there's really really smart people were saying the exact same thing so i'll leave you with a trump donald trump.

venezuela hugo chavez wisconsin opec us six year chavez smart matic sequoia voting systems matic sequoia systems national constituent assembly new york times cia ninety nine percent ron christie Saint luke's hospital milwaukee two three years five year
Home schooling and choices facing parents

The Current

26:18 min | 2 months ago

Home schooling and choices facing parents

"I'm Martin savage and is. And we're back with a brand new season of seat at the table, the podcast where we have in depth conversations with notable guests from media, sports, and pop culture. But this time we're capturing personal stories about the power of the black lives matter movement the urgency of this moment, and really what it will take to move forward seat at the table is available. Now CBC listen on spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. This is a CBC. PODCAST Last week. I spent some time with parents, students, teachers heading back to school at Bancroft elementary in downtown Montreal are documentary about the people we met aired on the program yesterday. If you missed it, you should check out our website or the podcast not everyone was packing school lunches or catching the bus that day though. Up a steep staircase off downtown Montreal street is the home of Alicia Inside Pala? We can come in. It is a welcoming modern loft style apartment, and when we get there, the three kids Leyla Sequoia and Noemi are getting their day started delicious workday has already begun as has her daily juggle chicken mateen. Fifteen. Eighteen work. You. Imagine. She's working while trying to feed three very active kids, kids'll. megachurches. Don't. Don't want. This juggle isn't going to get any easier now that it's September and that's because the kids aren't going back to public school for now, they will be home schooled, which will involve tutors classes at home and at a homeschooling center. It's not something that Alicia and PSI, it ever imagined they'd be doing but right now they feel like it's the only option we're not homeschool is by conviction is like we have to do something because the ministry the. School board nobody's really taking care of us in that sense. When you say you're not home schoolers conviction I mean before this people call this past the before times if somebody's home schooling like like, what did that? For me, it's. Typical but. White. Rich. Conservative. Basically. There's some dissatisfaction with houses. School system is going the liberals of the curriculum and so. That's what it's good for. What's different now about how you think about home schooling? I, still believe the first two is predominantly white predominantly upper middle class over income to be because it's not cheap. The last aspect. we're talking to the directive, a home schooling center recently, and she said an influx with parents who she called covert home schoolers in other words there home is. Because of the situation, nobody's taking care of their kids nobody's being honest about it. Always hide behind whatever bureaucratic language to hide behind. So you feel you have to do that. So we're definitely part of that. I mean we had concerns about the school system pre covert, but there are amplified to the Max by by Kofi. Looking for alternative school options for them since our oldest started school because of just a dissatisfaction with the things site had mentioned and just the. Lack of representation in the curriculum in the student body and everything, but we found. We didn't find anything in the alternative system that actually address those issues for us. and. So here we still are in the mainstream system not satisfied with it and then exploring homeschool really as a response to. The KOVIN situation. What was it because it's a big decision to not send the kids back knowing what school means in terms of socialization and the relationships that they have. If there's one thing that you can in terms of how the that tipping point what was that? The lack of information and being being forced to effectively make a decision for our kids in a vacuum vacuum like just no information I had zero clarity in terms of what was being planned, what the options were. Nothing and I didn't have a clear sense. Either of what the fallback plan was going to be for the school aside from just pull the plug and send them home. And for kids our age just sending them home and attending a couple of meetings on zoom with with teachers doesn't work. Layla could do it for a period of time, but there's the social aspect that's missing and for sequoia he just doesn't engage that way. He's an in person kind of person and he uses his hands and he learns on his feet so it wouldn't work for him. So so there we were in this vacuum and we had to try to piece something together. We are still trying to piece something together. We don't know what's GonNa look like one of the things about pub. Public School is that it's it's part of the comments, right? Like you are part of a larger society whole discussion where you have in the best case scenario people from all different strata who were there together learning together we're all in this together like it's a struggle for you I can see how how you wrap your head around. Around your at least temporarily out of that part of. It is one of the biggest sites that I think in terms of home schooling as it is today Oh. I have there is no answer that is something we're just gonNA. Have to say way that versus all the risks that come in and this is why I'm. A bitter at the school board at the city at the federal at all levels of government provincial federal because. They just. Typical bureaucrats it look at numbers they save one percent get sick or something happens. That's okay. You know they're not concerned with that for them is just pushing paper on a desk the end of the day for us being the ground talk kids, it's their. How the situation in a public context preparing them for the future it's not just about a dynamic for me at this age not too concerned about the grades I'm concerned about how do they interact with the larger public? From different backgrounds and So yeah, I'm pretty not happy with that but I, feel like I said forced to take this route in the interim, it's kind of like when somebody's bleeding and you just have to stop the bleeding for a while while you wait to go get help so this kind of situation I mean it may turn out. Differently who knows? But at this moment in time, my feeling is being dragged into this. And I don't like it but it's it's it's not good choice bad choice bad choice worse choice. We have to pick one Alicia how how do you reconcile and grapple with all of this? I think my I I think that my my focus is just really on like nuts and bolts of it, and really trying to make it work like I've been really the one taking the lead on trying to figure out. Okay. So what kind of resources and supports could we have which tutors could be lineup for which subjects like all of the nuts and bolts in the the nitty gritty of like a plan? and then but then when when we? Go back to the to the root feelings and the root issues here like it's pre- it's you can hear it in my voice it's emotional for me because these are kids. And you know we can figure out for them but there's a hell of a lot of kids for whom their parents can't and that's messed up. Can I ask you? You into this practically houses going to work you both work from home. Walk me through how this is going to work. The current draft. Plan. Current draft plan looks like sequoia has two and a half days of week of support. our youngest knowing a I think we're GONNA WE'RE GONNA start sending her back to the Galilee. She'll go three days a week maybe four days a week and Layla will have some individual tutoring support and then some after school clubs hangouts with a very small group of kids who sort of we've been interacting with all summer. Some of whom are going back to school in some of whom aren't, and we'll do that twice a week. And then. I typically work I do a bit of a rush in the morning in terms of my workload triaging, delegating that kind of thing, and then I pick it up again in the evening after the kids go to bed I, work again after their sleeping and so that's sort of been the rhythm for the last few months in how. For, how we're making it work and then he'd also has a lot of interruption in his days but he'll take some more focused time during the afternoon and I'll try to be out with the kids. So we can each have that space where we`re Really immersed in focused on the on the work that has to be done. So the the support in tutoring those are the media would you're hiring? Yeah, we're hiring. We're hiring people in paying fees so that so that we can give our kids what they need and fill in the gaps for where we can't what we can't provide for them. The argument from government and not certainly speaking for government that the argument that they has said is this is unprecedented. We're trying to figure this out as we move along. No one's ever been through something like this before and. We're doing the best. We can. When you hear that from government, you're shaking your head. And you side. Because sure. If this were having this conversation in February and March. Yes. This is an entire summer of this five months into the system. What was a known about reopenings? Sure. There's a lot of unknowns for sure but they're also plenty that we've known for a while. So I don't evaluate on the unknowns those unknowns I evalu- in given what you know or should have known how have you handled that and it's been abysmal. Scrambling at the last minute when you knew full, well that schools are reopening, this is the situation. So so my trust in the system's not just a particular one but in general different levels of government, it's pretty low school is about a lot of different things and it's about learning, but it's also about socialization. It's about we're talking about the idea of being part of the comments or what have you what are you most concerned about in terms of your kids not being in that environment the learning environment. Social interactions are really really important to them spending time with other kids on a daily basis Yeah. It's really important for their sense of self for their development for their identity for other kids at the interact with. So it's the social side of things. Yeah. You mentioned a little bit of just how. It's happening with work in terms of your working early in the morning, and then you ought to the kids go to bed maybe you're able to get some more work early days. It's only the beginning of September what are you most concerned about in terms of being able to to make all of that all those pieces fit yet I mean. So I've been doing this since since lockdown. So since mid-march um so it's not entirely new but I, mean honestly speaking. Is it easy? Of course it's not easy. No I'm tired everybody's tired. All parents are exhausted at this point and yet you still have to show up for your kids and you have to show up for your family and you have to show up for your community and for yourself it's damn hard but it's part of just the you just show up when especially when when the system isn't showing up with what you do, how have you explained that to the kids? We started out by saying sometimes well, we started out by talking about change in life and that life changes and. I. Mean Little by little where we're sharing little pieces of information with them, not to overwhelm them to help them participate in the decision as much as they can. There's been moments where they're open to it and moments where it's like hell no, we are not doing that. Definitely has. been clear that she would rather go back to. School and see her why would you do? Is it because he'd like to your friends? School is just so finding them really used to win. It's been so hard adapting to going to doing homeschool. What do you hope happens this year I WANNA try I'll see if I can try the homes going center and depending on my opinion of see if I can talk to my parents about going back to school or not going back. Do you do what they said they said we'll try the home school center for maybe two or three days, and then we'll see. What do you think? I don't go. It's a whole new thing after Vance of uncertainty and. No prep just one day everything changed. So we have to give them the space to have all of their feelings about that I think and that can include a flat out I. don't even want to try this I'm tired I wanna go back to normal and I think that's Really normal for a kid to express themselves that way. Alicia. Say Apollo live in Montreal. Hi I'm Elena Jones. Lyle and I'm Herman the Rodwell we're from the podcast inappropriate questions. It's a show about questions once that might be uncomfortable inappropriate get it. We've looked at everything from how old are you to have you lost weight to how did you get pregnant? That's right and we talked to guest an experts who have been off these questions do find more respectful ways to get curious. So check us out. You could find inappropriate questions on, CBC, listen or wherever you get your podcasts. High anesthesia abuses is two time. Olympic speedskater my whole life I been surrounded by athletes. Every one of them has a story that a scoreboard will never capture. Not An easy thing to be with an athlete that don't understand why they're making fun of me because I like to figure escape players on voices all about the person inside the performance one year. So in it I think perhaps where the people that understand at least subscribe now wherever you get your podcasts. Whether it's home schooling, learning pods or online courses. Thanks to Kovic many families are turning to alternative education methods. This year, what does that mean for public schooling in Canada in normal times over ninety percent of the Canadian population when it comes to kids are enrolled in that public system Ruben beating Fernandez as a professor in the curriculum pedagogy program. The University of Toronto Ontario Institute for Studies in Education Linda said, he is a professor of education at the University of British Columbia Okinawan Good morning to you both. Lynn. It's interesting hearing Alicia inside talk about how they feel almost forced into the situation that they're in now and comes to homeschooling. How do you see this pandemic changing the conversation about how educate our kids? This, pandemic came at a confluence I'll a whole bunch of fasters and I think that the world changed as that family suggested almost in a day. So I think that the biggest impact that depend it has had is that parents understand that they have a big responsibility in education of their children and that schooling has different. So. Part of the parents average consciousness about this kind of choice and responsibility that they have. So that's been a really affect I think it's going to really affect what schooling looks like in the future. So schooling always have that You know we all went to school. So it has kind of a certainty grounding in our lives, but just parents described That retain in the every day. This can look really different for different families because they're going to have choices of whether they're going to go to that public school or how they're gonNA accommodate their child's need Ruben what do you make of that? The idea of choice? What changes have we seen this year in the way that we're approaching education because we're in a different environment? Yeah. Well, I think the other the other events that have unfolded at the same time as the Democrat I think have really shaved the conversation that is taking place. In the US places is the fact that we're also seeing a resurgence of the importance of talking about inequality particularly in the context of the rights of the Black Lives Matter the responses to police, brutality, unbelieving violence, and of course, these are all links, right these are all because structural structural inequality and structural racism is expressed to the schooling system as well as to the through the police services and I think we're the conversation that we're having about how cool it is affecting schooling is happening in a context where where we being forced to contend with Structural racism and impact of structural racism unschooled. So I think I'm encouraged by that conversation because it means that we're talking about the choice of that parents have in the context of a larger conversation about inequality how privileged play into this there's a podcast that's been very popular in the United States Nice white parents, which is about Parents who have the best of intentions. But in trying to create better education public education for their kids, they end up in some ways destabilizing the system how does privilege play into the changes that we're seeing Ruben? Quite significantly I. Mean I think as we heard some the from the earlier interview, some of the choices that are that are become available for some parents choices that require not just economic resources but cultural resources, social resources and so that means that we are in a situation where not everybody has access to all the choices that are that are become available and that's been through all along right I mean, this is something we know from literature on. School choice is that not choices are available to all parents equally, and if anything Kovin has underscored that fact and has sort of illustrated for us that in in light of the situation choices become available our own equally distributed but want to bring Lynn back in a moment but just to that point, Ruben what does it mean than for those who can't make that choice and what does it mean for public schools if families who can't afford. Are pulling their kids out and their kids were left behind. Well what it means that we have to talk about resources right and I think we can't just simply talk about what all the choices that are available but we have to talk about what other resources that schools need in order to support parents and families that don't have those choices. Right how do we ensure that schools to stay small ensured that teachers stay teaching the classes that they're trained to teach so That, they can adjust better to the to the situation on for example, moving online you know. So so we can't just talk about alternatives and choices we have to talk about resources and about how we continue to provide the schools through their resources in order to do that properly when you talk about choice, how concerned are you about some kids getting left behind the shift more specialized schools because some parents? Can Afford to make that choice. I think that's that's the the nerve of the whole school choice movement and what's happening right now, and so I think that there's a huge responsibility of the state meaning government and Public School boards to ensure that there is equity and to meet those needs those left behind because we know that parents with resources you know can opt out they have they have the money to do that and the. Other thing that concerns me as parents off the public system, of course, if that kind of social cohesion that socializing function that schools play, and so we see in America just as rubens talking about with this kind of civil rights, movements that the new right is also rising up so that parents who don't want to have those conversations that feel the fear that kind of white fragility that's happening can Can decide to you know have learning pause and not a subject their children's to that kind of discourse but to your point I think it's really talking about that school boards have the obligations who really meets the needs of those that have to go to school that have no other alternatives. So they have to have the resources allocated to those parents and family. How has this played out in I think what's happening in? Alberta with charter schools that's really the only province where there are publicly funded charter schools in this country how is it playing out there? Well, you know charter schools So Albert has it has the moist most choice Alberta add onto the most choice in a public systems and the thing about charter schools that that I like because I is that the government. Has some rules or boundaries around charter school so they're publicly funded. Independent schools, but they have rules about They can't discriminate on admission for religious or or any kind of reasons, and so it provides like minded parents and educators to create alternative program that meets the needs to particular group. So it's a choice and they live and die by that charter. So they've got single gender schools. They've got a one screen digits students one four second language learners sign school. So. But once a game parents have to know how to navigate that system. They don't have to pay tuition, but they still have to get their kids to the school often have to wear uniform. but that actually. Is, a good alternative preparing because there's enough safety measures to ensure that they need to the children are met. It also protects children protect children's. Techs children because we don't want parents to socialize or educate children in. Ways that don't serve their their needs or best interests Ruben what do you make of that idea of greater choice whether it's a charter school or some of the alternative schools that exist for example on -Tario and elsewhere? Yeah. So in Ontario we don't have charter schools, but we do have likability in the school system for creating what are usually often call either alternative schools or specialized programs, and times. You know one of the biggest challenges we do schools and the ways in which they sort of contributes to inequality is through. Their selection of students. So you know -Tario especially, our store games can have can put in place admissions procedures, and as we know these admissions procedures are really ultimately exclusionary practices the majority of the time how the effect of creating highly genius school environment. So at least compared to the rest of the system so that so that's one of the one of the problems that comes up when we have sort of choice games is the problem of selection not just of how schools select, but also how parents self selects right so to. A regular matter what what kinds of parents, self, select particular kinds of curriculum and how of both selection on the part of the school, as well as tall selection on the part of the parents how creates a system that's separates and this is this is important because it's the way which soft power operate. So going back to going back to your to your reference to the wonderful podcast that has been gaining popularity. Nice. White parents affluent white parents use soft power user social and cultural capital to secure access to schooling environments that. That separated children from the rest of the system oftentimes in under the veil of all, we're just finding places that are good for our kids. We're just trying to attend to the special needs of our children, but let them behold what he'd results in Israel segregated system where affluent white parents end up constructing these spaces and and and putting practices in place that softly and gently end up producing a segregated. So what does that? What does that mean? Then for the health of the system as a whole if you have all these different alternatives? Ruben. Just briefly what does that mean to the health of the public system as a whole? Well, it it impacts your negativity right because if we believe that the reason why we have cooling basically because he's a common good on his part of building democracy and probability citizenship, we have to have a system that actually prepare students to participate in that in that in that Civic Society Right Civil Society, and we don't accomplish that by having segregated spaces having spent schooling's basis that don't look like the rest of. Society Right. So it hasn't negative impact on that and it also exacerbated equality right exacerbates inequality of access to higher education inequality of access to resources and constable paternity. So so in that sense I, think it has a belligerency fact. Lynn we just have a few seconds left were in this extraordinary moment in everything seems to be on the table and we're seeing parents exercise choice in ways that they haven't in past just very briefly how likely do think that what we're talking about will stick wants this pandemic is over. I'm I'm ninety percent sure that this will be the wave of the future that parents now known that they have choice and they have a responsibility to to provide for their children and I. think that in fairness to it Rueben saying that parents had how resources they do want to kind of colonize their child's future to increase their chances I think the bottom line for a system is. that. Yes. Some children will be better off but we WANNA sure that five kids leading no one's worth. So a game public school boards have to really attend to those that are left behind. This is fascinating and I can imagine we'll talk further about it as this unfolds the schools just at the very beginning in the meantime it's great to speak with you both this morning. Thank you you as well. Ruben Gust MVP, Fernandez professor of curriculum pedagogy at the University of Toronto's Ontario Institute for Studies in. Education Linda said he professor of education at the University of British Columbia. Turn it over to you parents your thoughts on this idea of choice. A good thing. Are you concerned when it comes to education? You can email us the current at CBC dot c. a Tweet, the current CBC or head to the website. CBC. DOT CA slash current click on the contact link for more CBC podcasts go to CBC DOT CA slash podcasts.

Public School Ruben CBC Alicia Montreal Lynn Layla sequoia professor of education Martin savage Linda Leyla Sequoia spotify Bancroft elementary professor home school center US Fernandez Civic Society Right Civil Soci Israel