19 Episode results for "programmer"

Trailer - The Creative's Journey

The Creative's Journey

00:58 sec | 7 months ago

Trailer - The Creative's Journey

"Aw Hey guys I'm your host. I'm an entrepreneur musician programmer and all around maker each week I'll be interviewing creatives about the tools processes in life events that drive their work as well as monologue regarding creative practices. And how you can improve your own at the end of every episode. I simply review the main points from the podcast and give you actual advice to take to work out your creative muscles if you're looking to learn from other creatives spark your journey. There's love stories about people in life describing rate on apple podcast spotify or wherever you consumer media. Thanks and happy greeting.

programmer apple spotify
Welcome To You Did What Now?

You Did What Now?

02:26 min | 1 year ago

Welcome To You Did What Now?

"Hello and welcome to you did what now a podcast where we discussed stories and sci tech that make us exactly that and your host ethnic former biology teacher in science aficionado and Michael Programmer and tech guy this first episode just a filler episode to prime feed so to speak so he can get the R._S._S. up and running. Make sure it's going to facebook twitter workout the bugs we've got a couple episodes or a record or ready recorded. Don't get self driving cars biohacking and a whole lot more so stay tuned for. That Stephanie what what sort of things you thinking about regarding yeah so of course as a teacher I love all science. I love to follow what scientists are doing. I like to be able to communicate that to students and to my friends sometimes they <hes> <hes> sometimes they don't WanNa hear everything that's going on in the world of science because it can frankly be quite frightening <hes> but I think it's important to keep yourself in the loop know what's going on know what to expect <hes> so. So that's kind of what I'm hoping to do just talk about what are some things going on right now that people should be aware of for the next upcoming years it was a lot of there's a lot of crazy science stuff going out there for shore noticing yeah yeah in biology chemistry but also yeah in the world of technology and I'm glad that <hes> you know partnering up with you. I think is going to be really great so we can kind of cover both fields that I'm not interested science as well but I as. has a programmer. I'm always dealing with the tech in all sorts of drones and all the crazy crazy. Things people are trying to develop these days A._I.. Artificial intelligence self driving cars. I'm very interested in self driving cars. I haven't feeling that will be a theme automation self-driving cars flying cars. I've got a been have my flying car article that we might talk about next week. We frost not next week in the podcast necessarily sure US really.

US facebook Michael Programmer programmer Stephanie
TechStuff Classic: Was Ada Lovelace the first computer programmer?

TechStuff

33:43 min | 1 year ago

TechStuff Classic: Was Ada Lovelace the first computer programmer?

"I wanna thank the Microsoft surface team for sponsoring this show. Now, you might remember from a few episodes ago when I talked about the surface go well now, you can meet the newest member of the Microsoft surface family, the brand new surface pro six, and this sucker has got more of everything you want. It has more power and has more speed and a ton more fun. You can get a peripheral keyboard, and it will snap right on to the Microsoft surface. Pro six and you can type on it. Like, it's a laptop you can could detach. It just as easily and then draw on your Microsoft surface. Pro six as a new eighth generation Intel core processor powering the thing that's incredibly powerful. It gives you up to thirteen and a half hours of battery life on a single charge. You can work where you want. How you want for as long as you want? So check it out the Microsoft surface. Pro six. Get in touch with technology with tech stuff from how stuff works dot com. He in welcome to tech stuff. I'm your host Jonathan Strickland. I'm an executive producer with how stuff works in iheartradio. And I love all things tech and his time for another classic episode of tech stuff. This episode originally published on may twenty fourth two thousand ten and I wanted to publish it today on March eighth two thousand nineteen is win the republication date is because it's International Women's Day. And I thought what more appropriate way to celebrate International Women's Day. Then by celebrating one of the most remarkable women in tech history. Ada lovelace. So this episode has the title was eight a Lovelace the first computer programmer, which is particularly fascinating because she lived at a time before computers, Chris pilot, and I talk about. Ada, and you can hear how much we fell in love with her as we did our research. I hope you enjoy this classic episode. We got two requests in the space of a week. Which is not a big surprise considering the subject of this. This podcast. It's a listener meal rock law. Yes, this comes from Bridget and Adam. So I'll read Bridget's I Bridget is from Australia, but I'm not going to try and do an Australian accent. Because whenever I do I sound like a New Zealander who suffered massive head trauma. So here is Bridget's Email, Chris Jonathan I've been spending some time lately, looking to inspirational people in hope of finding a suitable name for my soon to be born child such searching brought me to eight a Lovelace otherwise known as the mother of coding, I've done a little research data and found that there is some discussion as to whether she deserves this moniker was eight a lovely the first computer programmer, and therefore a worthy namesake for my future daughter. Let me know what you think. Cheers, Bridget and Adams was I recently learned a little about eight a Lovelace the first woman to write an algorithm that would be read by a computer and thought it would make a great podcast. I love the show keep up the amazing work. Can you? Also, do a show on the L H C, please cheers insert bear clink found here. All right, Bridget. And adam. This is our podcast about ADA, not about the Jonathan b we can't do this podcast. What do you mean? We can't do this podcast with already been done. I mean stuff you missed in history class. What's already done a whole podcast? There's a vicarious cut stuff you missed in history class. There is it's wonderful that the one with Katie, and Sarah it is indeed. And they talked about eight Lovelace already. They did. And they did really well, you know, what we should do with that. What you just have their bike as play. Okay. And we'll sign off. All right. We'll just insert their podcast here. And then no we can't we can't do that. We can't do that. Besides they specifically mentioned us in that podcast. Well, maybe what we should do then is talk specifically about her computer programming expertise and how she managed to do that considering she lived in the eighteen hundreds. Yeah, you would think she'd lived before computers. How could she have written? A computer programmer program rather grant, you wrote a programmer. A long week. Well, we're chain. Clearly, not we're going to tell you how she wrote a computer program. First of all, Richard. I'm going to get this out of the way first of all congratulations on your child. Oh, absolutely. And also ADA is more than worthy. I would say. In fact, I kind of fell in love with this lady the more I read about her. He actually her first name wasn't ADA. No, it was a Gusta Augusta. Ada Byron Augusta. Ada Byron daughter of Lord. Byron the poet. Yes. She was born December tenth eighteen fifteen. The daughter of Lord, George, Gordon, Byron and Annabella Millbank Byron. Actually, your parents married on the second of January eighteen fifteen but we're separated by January sixteenth eighteen sixteen. Yeah. So the marriage lasted a full year and a week and a half just long enough to to have the first computer programmer born to them, right? So yes, there their marriage was not a happy one her parents. And in fact, young ADA was never to meet her father. No was separated. She lived with her mom and her mom had decided that ADA did not really need to have the distractions of poetry. She thought that Byron's rather unpredictable personality. Let's call it that show was due to his romanticism and his obsession with poetry. Yeah. Let's just Annabella. The the mother felt that the the such qualities were not really admirable. She didn't want her daughter to have the same sort of personality and and and want to lifestyle as the father. Did had so so she's thought well, what's the least poetic thing? I can push my daughter into I happen to be an amateur mathematician. Let's push into mathematics. Actually, as a matter of fact, I found out that Lord Byron had referred to his very brief married, married. Wife. He called Annabelle the Princess of parallelogram 's that was a lot. Poetic, it was not meant to be a compliment nonetheless. But it does illustrate that she had a mathematical bent herself. And what I find interesting is that not only were Lord Byron's poetical jeans evident later in Asia's life. But is actually she ended up being sort of a blend of both of her parents as is appropriate for this case and ADA herself received a a wonderful wonderful title given to her by by Charles Babich. And we'll we'll discuss at length and a little bit the enchants of numbers. Yeah. Which I think is an amazing amazing phrase and very fitting as well. So eighty grows up. With some of the best tutors in that you can imagine during this time. She studies mathematics, and has absolutely fascinated with them, the the subject of mathematics, and is incredibly adept an amazing student, in fact, the more we research data the more I realized anyway that she was phenomenally more intelligent. I mean, I can't even really compare. She was able to to understand algorithms that that completely baffled me. And was able to to really study them in a way that she found fascinating. I find them perplexing and maddening. She found it as. Having its own kind of poetry. And then a way you think about it. Well, this kind of makes sense, you know, we we when you really look at algorithms. We're talking about things like number theory, and how the universe sort of works like hell things kind of fit together. And we express this more often than not through mathematical equations and algorithms and things of that nature, and she was able to see that kind of stuff I under I can understand the underlying concept. But when you get beyond that, it just I feel like I'm a fish out of water. Yeah. I understand. Well, let's see. Somebody else who is fascinated with her would be William king. Yes. He was so fascinated with he married her. Yeah. Well, the first William king who was who was her. I find that. I found this interesting. Find the two different way in king. Well, no, actually, I did mean I did meet her future husband. But it was really funny because I it confused me for a second. I was doing the research said William king was her tutor. And then as it turns out there was a William king, not the one she married as her tutor who was apparently immediately feeling out of his depth as he talked to her. He realized that she had a much more innate grasp of mathematics than he did. Right. So he he actually bowed out very quickly. He was one of the many many but less than a year later, apparently he eight married the other William king who. Was the eighth baron king and wasn't Earl made in early in one thousand nine hundred thirty eight. So that's when she became eighteen thirty eight eighteen thirty eight did I say nineteen thirty dude. Sorry. All right. So yes, he was made Earl in eighteen thirty eight. And that's when she became the Countess of Lovelace. Yes. So he usually just refer to her as eight a Lovelace now. Ada continued her her almost obsession with mathematics throughout her life. Unfortunately was tragically short. Yes. Ada passed away from after contracting cancer. I think she was thirty seven eighteen fifty two and she died November twenty seventh eighteen eighteen fifty two right? So but during that her life, she ended up encountering lots of remarkable people absolutely including the author Charles Dickens who became a close friend one of her other friends was Charles badge. Yes. She met. She meant Babich who was the Lou Kassian professor of mathematics at Cambridge. Ryan of she met him when he was just seventeen. Which is pretty interesting eighteen thirty three was around when that happened, Chris. And I have more to say about eight Lovelace just a moment. But first, let's take a quick break. This episode of tech stuff is sponsored by ADT. This is real protection on this show. I talk a lot about smart, technology, and home automation. Those advances have really transformed home security and real protection from ADT provides the tools and services to make the most out of that tech. And to make sure your home is secure. Real protection means having access to tools like video doorbells. Surveillance cameras smart locks lights smoke and carbon monoxide detectors in a customized system for your home. You can control your smart home with the ADT app, or even with the sound of your voice, and it includes professionals who can monitor your home security. So you don't have to eighteen thousand employees safeguarding you that's real protection. Visit ADT dot com slash podcast to learn more about how ADT can design and install a secure smart home. Just for you. Can we get into the the the time when she was talking at a party with Babich about this new machine? Eighteen thirty four he had come up with this thing the analytical engine. Yes. All right. Well, let's let's backtrack. Just a touch before. We get the analytical engine that was not the first machine the Babich had proposed. No, no, not at all. As a matter of fact, we brought it up before. Yeah. From the past, right? That was a fun podcast. But yes, this was a more recent one. And as we talked about on that podcast Babich was having difficulty getting funding for these amazing machines because people just didn't get it that much was able to get some funding for his first machine, which is called the difference engine. Now, it's different from the other one. All right. It was a little more simplistic then his idea for the analytical engine right now the difference engine. He managed to get some money to fund it. But his the process of building. It was a very long laborious process. Yeah, they had to actually machine these parts by hand. And and try and put it all together. And he kinda run out of money before we round machine the machine was not done yet. And it was in the process of this whole construction phase that he got the idea for the analytical machine, which was even more ambitious than the difference. Yes, engine, right? The analytical engine was going to be more complex and be able to do more than the the difference. Which you could kind of say was essentially a giant calculator, right? The analytical engine was more like a very primitive, computer. Yeah. And as a matter of fact, that that time that whole time thing the fact that it was taking a long time to build did not help him when he was seeking funding for the analytical engine, right? There were two things that bud that kind of plagued him when he was trying to get some money. One was that he had not finished the difference agenda, and that was kind of what he was being paid for in the first place. Yes. So his funders were saying until you build this other machine you promised us several years ago, we ain't giving you no more money. Yeah. And then the other part of they probably did say like that. Now, they've priced that with an English accent since probably till you go fish dad today. We ain't giving you no more money. Probably. Fairly played by Dick Van Dyke. So anyway at any rate so tight spot, but he comes up with this idea of the analytical engine, and of course, he's very passionate about it. So he's blabbering on and on about it. Yes. Then you have young eight a Lovelace who over hears such talk. He has this sounds absolutely fascinating NATO and not only does she think it's interesting. She immediately sees the potential to use such a device far beyond even badges concepts Babbit just thinking, well, this would allow you to create an engine that would be able to generate the numbers that you would find in a log arrhythmic table. Yes. Because until I point you bring much had to be able to come up with those figures by doing the calculations all yourself, and these calculations were pretty complex, and it was easy to make a mistake along the way. Which would of course, affect all of your figures from that point on and he he just he was sitting down one day. And he was thinking what if I could what if they're a machine some steam powered machine that could generate these numbers. So I wouldn't have to. And then I could I could generate them as far out as I wanted to. I wouldn't have to worry about error because the machine would just be following the same algorithm over and over and over again. Yes. Well, ADA thought of that. And she even went further she said that you could potentially use mathematics to represent other things like text or images or even music. Yup. She had foreseen computers. Yes. This remarkable woman was able to look at this machine that really was meant to be able to run algorithms. So that you could generate more mathematical figures, mainly in the in the pursuit of mathematics and self and things like number theory, and she was able to see even grander uses. Which to me is it's it's one of those discoveries that I just think before that time, no one had ever. Really, even considered this. And then she just comes up with it. Just by looking at the thing and seeing its potential. Yes. It's that's where I'm like. Okay. This woman was way above and beyond smarter than I am. All right. Stop speaking out for a second. Okay. I'm sorry. I will I will give you a quote from her as a matter of fact, she she compared to to Jack ours loom, if you will remember we've mentioned that machine couple times on the podcast. I believe this was a loom that was invented by mushoo is card and basically made a lot of people unhappy because it used punch cards to automate parts of the weaving process you can put in a pattern card for a pattern in the loom would be able to weave that pattern into the fabric. While she said, we may say most aptly the analytical engine, we've algebraic patterns just as jacquard loom, weaves, flowers and leaves. So it's either you go there's that whole poetry thing. She. Know, it's just in there. Well, and and like I said, even if you even if you ignore the language and ADA was very gifted with with words because she was with mathematics, the fact that she could see the poetry in in math is again, very phenomenal to me. Why meant that she was making connections between something that was completely completely? But and a wide wide way. It was it was not very related directly to this analytical engine. Also, you might notice she's sort of foresaw the use of punch cards used for programs. So she's already thinking in a programmatic sense. Yeah. Actually, a baggage himself talked a little bit about punchcards when he wrote about his political engine. And and his sense. He was talking about the the use for punch cards for two purposes. And we've talked about this bandage. Also, we shouldn't we shouldn't know he's leave him out of this amazing innovation as well. Bambridge was also amazing in his ability to foresee the future as far as computers are concerned. Now granted his devices were all mechanical as of to electrical. Yes. But they the the principles of electronic computing are based very firmly on badges discoveries. Badge foresaw. The use of punch cards using two different kinds of punch cards. One would be a set of instructions, and the other would be would represent the constants or variables of whatever formula. You're plugging in one is the program and the other is the information that you plug into the program to get a result. Exactly. Same sort of thing that we see in microprocessors today. What baggage was doing was was the the precursor to the microprocessor. It's just his was a macro processor because it was enormous in weighed tons and tons if he had ever managed to actually build it size of that silicon wafer. Yeah, he never he never did build the analytical engine. He did he realized during his lifetime that it was not going to happen. And I'm sure it was a massive disappointment to them, but they have been made sense. Yes. There was one created almost like an art project. Yeah. In the early nineties and fun. I think it's a museum now. Right. Yeah. Actually think I think there may be too. Oh to be honest. I think it's one of the things that I ran across a mention of as I was looking specifically for information about eight a lovely. So I didn't follow it. But yeah, I think I think I saw that there were two in existence. Now that have been created just because you can and Babich actually wrote that the political engine would eventually contain an apparatus for printing on paper, or if required up to two copies printed out on paper. It ahead of the ipad. I'm kidding. Their software for that. And it would have a means for producing a stereotype mold of the tables or results it computes, and it would have a mechanism for punching on blank paste board cards or metal plates, the new miracle results of any of its computations. So in other words, you would read it by looking at a punch card. You would find the results of whatever it was that you're trying to calculate the his his method of designating? Punch card was actually pretty simple. The each punch-card had. Had several columns of holes or or columns where you could punch a hole and ten rows. And if you punch the top hole that would be a one if you punch the top two that would be a two if you punch the top three that'd be three. So this isn't binary. You see what I'm saying? Yes. So it was a very simple way. You would look at the the punch card, and you would say all right? Well, the first number is a three because the first three holes are punched that kind of thing that made it pretty easy to read. Yes. But again beverage was just thinking in terms of numbers Lovelace was the one who was thinking in terms of graphics music. A thing. That's true. We have a bit more to say about the enchants of numbers. But before we get into that. Let's take another quick break. Let's consider the secret life of the innermost nesting doll living, most of her life in the dock inside the other nesting Dole's. He has plenty of time to think if we could sadly, she has no brain, however, when an in a most nesting dole, his gyco not only saves people money, but also has been providing great service for over seventy five years. She thinks it's obvious. You should switch because. Yes. Switching to Geico is a no brainer pity the innermost nesting Dollond her lot in life, April Callahan, and Cassidy's Zachary, we are fashion historians and together, we host dressed the history of fashion a podcasts. Are we explore? The who what why we wear this season we travel throughout history and around the world to bring you more of the fascinating stories from behind the clothes. We all wear we traveled a central Asia. To learn all about the resist dyeing technique known as e Kat and to Paris to learn all about the legacy of Christian your from curator, Florence Mula. In addition to going behind the scenes on the most high. Highly anticipated fashion exhibitions of the year, we will export the histories of a whole host of topics from gender bending to plus size, fashion and clothing choices of colts. Yep. You'll just have to tune in every Tuesday and Thursday to learn all about why what we wear matters for listening. Subscribe at apple podcasts or am. I heart radio app or wherever you listen to podcasts. Lovelace comes up with a. Kind of a test. She she writes out a program essentially based on badges. Design for the analytical engine. Now this engine again did not physically existed this point. In fact, it never existed during his life. Yeah. And and Lovelace predeceased average so Lovelace looks at this design, and she says, you know, what let's just take one. One mathematical algorithm, and I will design a program for this engine that would fulfill this algorithm. So she decides to create a program that would generate Bernini numbers. Yes. I would like to explain to you what burn newly number is. Honestly, I would like to. But I'm an English major. No seriously. I looked at Bir newly numbers I looked up five or six different explanations. And really it's just a it's it's a level of mathematics with which I am not comfortable. So I cannot even explain. They're generated through the through a simple algorithm, relatively simple algorithm and Lovelace was able to create a program that would have generated Bermuda numbers through the analytic engine. Had it ever been built. So I would say that. Yes. You can call her the first computer, programmer, definitely so. I met it's been a long time since since I took calculus to more than twenty years now. But yeah, the br- newly numbers were named for Yakult Brunelli who published actually the work was published after his death. It was published in seventeen thirteen and based on the in that was. Our hope I probably am not pronouncing this right ours. Konjic Thandi or anyway. Anyway, he it was published by Mr. Berlet he was one of several in his family to work with math. But the newly numbers are very very important because they can be used in a lot of different ways related to number theory and triggered the metric functions as well. But yes number theory. I mean, we're talking about a lot of pure mathematics here. Yeah. It's basically deal with consecutive injures. And the way the sums of powers are calculated. Yeah, I read that and. Sure. Also, I should also point out before anyone writes in. He was not the first he was not the only person to discover this principle. Well, I mean, this is the time of people who are discovering things at the same time at the same time. There was different. I want to say it was a Japanese scholar who discovered it and also his work was published after he passed away, and it was published in seventeen twelve. Wow one year before. So they probably discovered it around the same time. Yeah. Because this was actually almost ten years, I think after Bruno's death. So it would have been concurrently simultaneous concurrently. That would have been redundant. Well, I it's hard to say he was first. But right. They were around the same time. Just as you know in the immediately preceding years, we have the calculus being conceived of it's fast. It must have been a really heavy time for mathematicians. Oh, sure. And so, yeah, I mean, the fact that that Lovelace was able to you know, she she knew, of course, about this the rhythm to generate Brunelli numbers and was able to program a, you know, this this is all more or less a thought experiment because again nothing existed with which on upon which she could run this program, which was able to create a program that would have generated Bernini numbers based upon the way that the analytical engine would have worked. So the fact that one she understood this which all by itself is pretty amazing to me because I mean in the sense that I find it completely incomprehensible to she was able to write a probe. For something that only existed in fury. I mean, and she had a lot of influence with Babich the two of them together really kind of shaped then a local engine and they would find errors in each other's work. So it wasn't like beverage would make mistakes because he's human and Lovelace would find them and sometimes Lovelace would make mistakes. And baggage would find them they had a very long history of correspondence. And also a web comic. Yes, we have to mention that the Lovelace and Babich web comic. Oh, yeah. Oh, this guys do a search on on the web for the Lovelace and Babich web comic because it is phenomenal. I think it's a it's a very playful tongue in cheek tribute to these two individuals. But I think it's also you can tell it's it's made out of love. Yeah. I mean that kind of effort to go into and and it's great art. It's great writing. It kind of picks up on the presumption of Lovelace and Babich becoming kind of like crimefighters using computational in the analytical engine to to defeat crime and solve mysteries. And with those sort of found like the like, it should be a Hanna Barbera show or something kind of the arts better. So yeah, no. It's really great stuff. I definitely recommend it. And you know, you know, why we got these these emails so close together. Right. Why is that because of a lovely day? Now, the very first eight a lovely day was held on the March twenty four th of two thousand nine and they had another one this year again March twenty fourth and you can find information about a lovely stay on Facebook on on the web in general. There's a Twitter feed for a called finding ADA an eight is ADA. So it's all one word finding ADA, and they try and get people to sign a pledge to blog about eight a Lovelace and kind of increased public awareness of who this woman was and what she accomplished and how really amazing, you know, she was and. There. If you look at contemporary records of Lovelace. It's it's a little for me. It's a little discomforting because it's it's almost dismissive. It's like, she's amazing. Despite the fact that she's a woman, right, which is of course, indicative of the the general philosophy of the era. Right. But I mean, it's you know, you I know that because this woman was just phenomenal period. Yeah. Absolutely brilliant. Yeah. And I should point out too. That that's not the only time she's been honored. You know in recognized for her work, the as a matter of fact, oddly enough, the United States Department of defense honored her with her own program own programming language. Call eight eight in nineteen seventy nine. So she's I think she's fascinating enough that she just sort of keeps popping up in history from time to time people get fascinated in one to learn more about our and every reason to absolutely brilliantly. Anyone anyone who has a computer science background? Yeah. Heard of her. Oh, yeah. Just from their their studies, but I can't help but feel that had she not had cancer had she been able to to live on and continue her work that possibly the air of computers would have come a little faster. Now, it's the main thing that would have had to have happened was that the combination of Lovelace and badges work would together would have to convince people to invest in completing the analytical engine because of course, they didn't have the the resources. Disposal to create an electrical, computer, right? There would still it would still have been a mechanical instrument, and who knows how sophisticated it ultimately would have been it may be that her vision of of mathematics, representing music and graphics, and that sort of thing would take longer and possibly a totally different form factor than the analytical engine, but we might compute completely differently than we do now. Yeah. Who knows it could have been a very steam punk kind of kind of future. Right. Well, I hope we did Justice to eight a Lovelace again. And if you want to know more about her as a person definitely check out the stuffy missing history class. Yes, they do. Job. Yeah. We I listened to it before we did this podcast. And and and Katie and Sarah really do a great job and giving an idea of what her life was like, and especially her relationship with her mother, which was a very complex relationship and sometimes combative. But it's a it's an interesting story kind of tragic ultimately, but definitely helped shape the way the the history of computers and that wraps up. This classic episode of tech stuff. I hope you enjoyed it. If you really liked the story of a Lovelace, you gotta check out our store over at t public dot com slash tech stuff. We have the code like a girl t shirt that has a Lovelace on the shirt has a illustration of eight Lovelace. It's one of my favorite shirts. I own a couple of them. In fact, I bought them. In fact, I loved it so much. I went ahead and purchased. It didn't tell anyone. And then everyone said, hey, we could have sent you a a version of that you wanted. But no, I I really felt like that was something important, and I love that particular shirt, you should go. Check out even if you don't buy one go at least take a look at because I'm really proud of that particular product if you guys have any suggestions for future episodes of tech stuff. Send me an Email. The address is tech stuff at how stuff works dot com. Don't forget the visit our website. That's over at tech stuff podcast dot com. Can find us on social media over there as well? And I'll talk to you again releasing. For more on this and bathrooms of other topics. Visit how stuff works out com. My name is Danny Shapiro. The host of family secrets three years ago. I took DNA test and this test meant to be a fun exploration of my family history turned up a massive family secret. I wasn't who I thought I was join me, and my guests in the journey family secrets wasn't a family secrets on apple podcasts the iheartradio app or ever you get your podcasts. And if you want to read about my family secret, my new memoir. Inheritance is available. Wherever books are sold.

Ada lovelace Ada Charles Babich Lovelace Microsoft Lord Byron Countess of Lovelace Bridget William king Intel Earl ADT Katie Ada Byron Augusta programmer apple Jonathan Strickland Australia ADA
The Pragmatic Programmer celebrates 20 years with Dave Thomas and Andy Hunt

Hanselminutes

38:52 min | 1 year ago

The Pragmatic Programmer celebrates 20 years with Dave Thomas and Andy Hunt

"This episode is sponsored by data dog with three hundred and fifty plus integration as well as metrics logs traces and a._p._m. Data dog enables your team to quickly find and fix issues before they escalate visualize your micro services architecture with the service map spot unusual trends with a log patterns view and and monitor the availability of your services with synthetics start a free fourteen day trial of data dog today and receive a complimentary t-shirt by visiting bitterly dot com slash data dog shirt. That's bitterly dot com slash data dog shirt <music> and this is scott hanson another episode hansel minutes today. I'm chatting with andrew hunt and dave thomas authors of the pragmatic programmer from tournament a master now in its twentieth year. How are you gentlemen. We're thanks for having us. I notice and you get an andrew and i just gotta dave. I mean you know what's funny is that that's that's one of the other combinations because when we first wrote the book it was andrew and david because you know we were young trying to make a name for ourselves and then all the books we've written since then have been david andy or andy and dave and <hes> so we still kind of random permutations nations is their preferred one. I don't know i guess my dad is dave so i'm afraid i got a little sloppy there. No that's what i go bye. Okay andy david and this is twenty years old which feels impossible. I mean i it. It feels fresh. Russia reads fresh. Did you know when you were writing it that it was going to be a seminal work. Do you sit down and say you know. Let's write a book but let's make it's a seminal work or did you just slap the keyboard and it turned out that way. I the only person in history who said i'm going to write. A bestseller was jeffrey auditor and he won't because he was bankrupt and he needed the money. I think otherwise it's just i mean you write the book you write and you you see what happens i mean. I think both of us were stunned. When it took off because for us it was an exercise in really as much as anything else is trying to clarify our own thoughts and put down what was to us kind of like common sense that our clients at the time weren't really seeing is commonsense so it was almost like a crystallization of set of notes when we wrote it so you're writing it down to explain it yourself. Make sure that what you think you know is what you know yeah and to our clients. I mean we we kinda got. We went through a period where we're going into on site and just about everybody we went to. I mean typically consultant. You don't get brought in with things a wonderful anyway but the people that we were brought into all had the same kind of problems <hes> their builds weren't consistent. There were shipping code hadn't tested. They were designing things things in such a way. It was impossible to change them and so we thought well let's save ourselves at a time in heartache by just jotting down notes we can give to them and that turned into the pragmatic programmer. The i mean the original thought was we didn't even seek out to do a book to begin with. We're just going to write a white paper. You know literally just just some notes notes just to save us a little time going into the next client and you know projects grow in scope right so you know the little white paper became more of a full-fledged book but you know that was that was our intent we didn't we had no notion that this would be a popular at all or any kind of bestseller we just kind of we're like wow we we can actually get this printed and published. You know that's that's really cool it. We figured our moms would buy a copy and you know maybe a few friends but not much more than that. It sounds like you're you're trying not to repeat yourself in this case. You'd being dry because you're like you know. People keep asking us this. We should probably just make fac and then we can handle that the client the welcome. You've just hired us. Here's the here's how we were basically basically and then as dave said as we started looking at that that level of project like well okay we we have a chance to make this this fact this white paper water the most important things that we could say. We don't want to waste time talking about well. You know you should informat your code this way or it here to the one true brace style or or you know that that level of stuff so it's like well. What do you want to say and what is the most important and how can we. How can we say that we convey that in a way that people will will remember it and understand it and really rocket because as much as as i'd love to you can't go in and tell people you have to brush your teeth and eat your broccoli and and you know that that kind of advice it's like yes that's true but people tune out but they won't they won't necessarily and if nothing else eager to eat your broccoli and then brush your teeth otherwise it's no point water is important absolutely uh and i i think the other thing that was really beneficial to us was that <hes> at that time we were working with a really wide variety of clients in a whole bunch of different industries different languages different operating systems and so the walls no one-size-fits-all <hes> so we were kind of forced to go go back a level and look at it from the kind of the meta level if you like of what are the underlying concepts as opposed to one of the tools and i think that's probably possibly one of the reasons that we <hes> we were lucky with the book is that we didn't make specific or too specific to one set when you're working in software uh and especially or object oriented software your people are always saying if you can name it you can claim it. People will spend days trying to name the right class. Just get the they say the name right then they'll understand it in the design. We'll just fall out from it. How important was it to call it pragmatic when you discover that word pragmatic. You didn't call it the dogmatic programmer you needed the pragmatic programmer when you nailed that word was that the word that you needed or was that just a word we wanted because and i'd i'd almost forgotten this until i saw a some interview from back in the day but at the time like with twitter today were read it there was a lot of discussion on a usenet on comp dot com object and some of these other newsgroups and there was a long running arguments lashed discussion about whether programming was craft or not and and and you know all kinds of the follow on arguments well if it's not is it art is it science engineering is that and the answer is yes. You know it's it's it's all these things in measure but in particular there was a strain of thought at the time which kind of virulent persists to this day that is very dogmatic that says you must abide by this principle and you must do this and you must do this this way and we looked at these and they're like well yeah no it. It doesn't work like that. Really i mean yes a lot of the time. This principle can be helpful. This practice can be helpful this <hes> you know this paradigm it can be useful but not always and you need to know the difference so we very much pushed deliberately against the the what we perceived as the dogmatic matic approach an approach is being pushed at the time said no you gotta you gotta look at things in context you've got to be able to apply these lessons where and when they make sense and i think a lot of that we tried to capture in the book of trying to give that sense of you know. This is what you need to look at to evaluate. Is this the right thing to do here in this context. You can't just blindly say. I'm gonna use ohio. I'm gonna use functional programming or i'm gonna use scrum or i'm gonna use khloe. Whatever whatever it is <hes> it has to fit the situation yeah. That's absolutely true. I mean i think one thing i like to put up on slides as zony won't universal so rule and that is that there are no universal rules <hes> and i think that's that's very very true and i think one of the things that we try to be is an it's powder on our readers because what we're doing with pushing back on the we're trying not to say do this. We're trying to say here the options here all things other people will do now. Go work at what works view because there are no to develop doing the same thing at the same time in the same environment etc your shutter so it's pretty much much guaranteed that there's no such thing as a best practice we've been we've been talking at <hes> at my job about how to interview people especially now that new fresh generation ratio of developers coming in and a lot of people have been pushing back on white boarding interviews and pushing back on how we interview people because they feel that it is asking a bunch of trivia and one of one of the bosses proposed that were less interested in people who have the answers more interested in people who know the right question to absolutely. That's a really good way. <hes> from my personal experience is some of the best developers of hired couldn't program at the time you know i mean nowadays you can get productive in a couple of months up to a level. Where you're you know you're paying back your salary so i think you're looking at the personality absolutely i'd i had i had the very the very same experience one of the one of the best see programmers i ever met had an advanced degree in botany and he used to go on literally like expeditions into the amazon to collect. Some you know tell me he was looking for bugs annoys plants. I'm sure talk pugs involved but yeah but no it's yeah it's absolutely it's it's the it's your <hes> part of personality but your outlook you know that that kind of insatiable insatiable curiosity about the world and if you're willing to go traipse into the farthest jungle with head hunters actual head hunters who liked like cannibals not the scary kind who you know try to get you jobs and stuff but if you're willing to traipse out into the jungle to look for plants just because it's cool you know yeah you willing to read a few man pages. Look up a few things on the web figure out how stuff works <hes> but it's at that driving curiosity. Hey this is neat. How does this work what what's behind hines where this come from. Can i use this. You know that's really the driving force i think. Will you bring up an interesting point here because we're we're. We're hearing a podcast with with with with all due respect to all of us bunch of older programmers. We probably got one hundred years of programming experience between us and dave just said we know you can get up to speed and a couple of weeks and you know start paying back. You're you're studying. <hes> it's interesting. It's one of those things where it's like the game of go right where it's a minute to learn and lifetime to master. I'm not hearing from either of you any kind of what they call these days 'gate-keeping where it's like well you know you need a software engineering degree a master's thesis before you can start writing that h._t._m._l. Tim l. i'm hearing an enthusiasm for people to start programming right away and just start asking the right questions so i let you into a little secret. I <hes> <hes> i'm teaching. 'em teaching two classes <hes> undergraduate level at s._m._u. <hes> just to <hes> well well for two reasons one of them is i want to corrupt the youth so i'm teaching them things that you know like functional programming that they wouldn't get otherwise but the other reason in his i have this nagging feeling that <hes> particularly computer science education is really poorly serving <hes> both the industry and on the student in that these people are coming out of university with tens. Maybe hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt and yet in terms of the <hes> value to the industry as a whole. They're really not that much different. People that go through an eight week or whatever boot camp eight months like i said is boot camp <hes> in that they they aren't being shown the real world <hes> and what they're being shown is like you know various ideas on how to do certain things in c. Plus plus or whatever it might be and i mean for example. I teach <hes> <hes> people in the third fourth year and the master students and pretty much universally not a single one of them has ever been shown any any form of testing so far in their kohl's <hes> so it's <hes> yeah you you're never gonna get me saying oh yeah you need a degree in this <hes> you know i would much rather hire somebody who had their eye attitude and who i liked who is smart aw and who could talk to people and then show them how to code. I agree one hundred percent in fact i think it seems to me and both you know so. Here's a reveal both david. I have have a kids in and just about to be out of college <hes> studying these areas and looking at the various this degree programs and the content what they teach i get the strong feeling that most computer science programs are there to teach you to become a professor a a teacher of computer science you know and not practically actually get out in the world in a software developer to be a problem solver. <hes> and that's really kind of disappointing disappointing. <hes> i know the when my my son went to college the they had the attitude in the introductory courses that here you were. Are you know coming into college for the first time you want your declaring your major to be a computer science and they start with the assumption. You'd basically had never seen a computer before and here's here's the keyboard and he you know this this level of instruction it's like they missed the fact that this generation has been playing on their ipod ipad since they were <hes> you know toddlers or whatever you know. They're very comfortable in the digital as these people have had these kids have had some jobs programming in python or p._h._p. Or or what have you they're coming in with a certain base level of knowledge and the regular programs are like you've never seen one of these magic devices before you know starting from there and you know again for years with everything else. They're trying to teach yeah. They don't cover testing. They don't cover working effectively in a team. They don't cover. Do things like version control that are just you know hygiene really. I'm it's back to brushing your teeth. I mean this is just how you do things and that's often not not not part of their experience fundamentally. I don't think they teach programming <hes> in in the broader sense they teach how how to code in certain languages and typically that is motivated by una teach you data structures or i'm going to teach you know <hes> algorithms speed or something like that but in general good things to do when programming that never gets told and that's a that's a big shame that reflects the overall problem right in you. You hit the nail there in the head. It's like people still identify themselves as i'm a java programmer. I'm a c. Plus plus program or you know. I wanna go to school to learn programming. No as you said you know you can learn that in a couple of weeks a couple months at boot camp. What you need to learn is is problem solving. How do i attack and solve this problem using technology using computer languages using algorithm it constructs using and development paradigm. How do i solve these classes problems. What tools joy us. That's really the heart of the matter. That's that's the first peng then the that after you get more experience in the second part is being able to recognize the problems now and that's that's never tool. I've been teaching. I i now teenager some of the fundamentals of hygiene. The thing that came up yesterday was the importance of deodorant <hes> and <hes>. I was trying to explain to this <hes> this young person how important this was and then. I realized that you know if you don't have a person to do that. You're just going to smell and how how would you know how could you have discovered that and i think that we we assume so much that this this or that is discoverable and and that's asking a lot of someone to discover that when we can simply show them hey there's a way to do this. That's understood and maybe you could do it this way. Hey friends summers longer days and slower pace. Invite us to pick up a book. Follow our questions and try our hand at something new. The work of modern software developers eloquence is evolving in ways that are both challenging and rewarding as a developer. It's essentially you cultivate a security mindset and to help we've put together a collection of information nations security books podcasts blogs and hands on exercises recommended by vera coders across our development security and product teams from just first published page turner to classic frac articles. There's something here for everyone who is interested in becoming more security minded so dip your toes entertain a deep dive visit visit w._w._w. Dot vera code. That's v. e. R. a. code dot com slash reading. That's vera code dot dot com slash reading. I noticed that <hes> the chapter three of the of the book you have a whole section called basic tools and you go right off the bat and you say look the power a plain text but i don't remember learning how to edit text in college <hes>. I was told how to use punch cards so that's almost the same but again again. It's it's so his his an interest. Andy talked about his boy who went through effectively. It was basically like it was the cybernetics computer science one of those kind of engineering you kind of things my son <hes> my oldest son and took a liberal arts degree is relatively fluent in ancient greek some latin some french <hes> he can og you philosophers until you're is dropout and because i was in tha programming he was vehemently not into programming make <hes> for a long time and he got out of college and discovered that there aren't that many openings for liberal <unk> autists out there in the job market <hes> and was basically hanging around looking for stuff to do and got involved programming being <hes> an all duino to <hes> he was trying to sense muscle tension so he could produce like an artificial hand <hes> and and kind of got into programming that way and decided he liked it wouldn't did <hes> a really fantastic colts out of boot camp <hes> he's now pro. I mean he's been basically he's probably paid more than twice. The next the students that graduated in his class <hes> totally enjoying himself and getting back to editing texts <hes> <hes> he was taught using visual studio coat <hes> and he has gone through this conversion to the dockside and he is now. You know the teaching me up because i use v._s. Code he sang oh no no you should be using vim and t- mucks and blah blah blah you know and this is someone who had really never we've seen an editor until a year ago so that side of things is is. I think there's lots also different levels. You know and i think that that sort of thing. The edge tech stuff is absolutely fundamental but what we're trying to get to in that chapter after is not so much the this text but it's how the fact that if you have stuff in text than accessible to all of your tools worse if instead you have tool specific data then you're limited to what you can do by what the tool can do so that's that's kind of an underlying <hes> principle if you will that that runs through the whole book are the subtle little things that you might not think about but about that if you do them correctly they help keep your options open in the future because as a species we were terrible at fortune telling. We think we're decent fanatic. We think we can we know oh. This is how you know. This class will be extended in the future. I'm gonna build it to be maintainable and extensible and nonsense right. None of us know what's going to happen six months twelve months eighteen months from now so anyway we can. We try to do whatever we can to be as flexible rexel. Keep our options open keeping things in plain tex well. We can use it any number of ways in the future. We don't need to know what those ways are but we're ready for it. It's been funny now that i've got so many years doing this to watch people go back and forth between name equals value to x._m._l. All to jason and now yam. Oh and i try not to be the older programmer and go. You know that's just adorable. As i watched people reinvent those things as we all come back eventually to just name value pairs or you know files as they say exactly exactly but it doesn't just apply to into things like in configuration so for example we wrote the first edition of the book using lotta <hes> which is x. Files house right and <hes> the publisher was was aghast at this they wanted us to use word and then they will take the word and back then they were going to import it into frame maker and make a book out of that of course they were and we said okay but if you do that then how do we make changes kissed and they were they were like what we make changes. That's the part they wanted to make the framework of the authoritative taste source and then throw away your original source but his his his the real cool thing so skip forward twenty years and we're gonna do it again. We had exactly the in compensation where the publisher and in the end we are entrenched intransigent enough to win <hes> but now we're faced with the fact that we'd produced this incredibly incredibly complex lower tax system and we in the meantime developer and publishing company and we actually had a pretty kick ass to maroon and obviously we didn't accept attack but it was in plain text so a couple of ruby scripts later allow tech actually quite happily fed into our plain text based <hes> production system for the news the new stuff and that's the benefit of plain text. You don't have to think about the future because you know ask is asking is always going to be healthy. You know it's funny that you mentioned that i was working with an apache spark system recently and it was many many hundreds of terabytes of data but it was all c._s._v. files and some of the some of the more what they thought of as being more pragmatic people people were having trouble understanding the scope and reconciling the size hundreds of you know terabytes with with their c._s._v. fouls like i can't open them in them but they are giant and but there's a benefit for that because when it's all done and it's one hundred years from now it's the c._s._v. files. How's that going to save us all absolutely c._s._v. It's it's incredible to me that i mean when did excel i come out like early. Eighteen mid eighties or something c._s._v. is still the only lingua franca of business in the united states or in the world and you know all this talk about edna and everything else up people just email spreadsheets so okay so is this a truth because we are old or is this a truth and we need to teach everyone on this trip because it's the pragmatic truth. I think i think it actually it's it is a pragmatic truth if we went the other way and said okay. This is a truth because we're old. That's where we'd like. Well bash scripts forever baby. I've got shell scripts that are thirty years old that still work perfectly fine and i got code and some it does and those working. Did you have bugs in but the well done i actually i wouldn't call him a truth. <hes> i would call them. It's an observation because a truth implies that it's my way or the highway and you know. I don't believe that <hes>. I think that there are likely to be also different. Opportunities doing different things in different ways for us to date plain. Intex has been all savior which is great because it gets back to the original route of the conversation which is about pragmatism where you might feel something is a truth and someone it comes up with a better truth. You go okay well. That's the truth now but in this case here it is a proven thing because it is just like scientific method. It's a theory that has been proven time and time and time again to be a useful thing exactly this. This is what works and that's really. I mean that really probably should have been the tagline to the book. This is what works but i think also not no it's not this is what works it's. This is what worked in the past tense i for you. You could even say this is what worked in the past tense for us. Yeah on these projects at this time and then here we are over specifying the specification and now the name of the book is the pragmatic programmer. This is what worked in the past tense for us at these specific times of these projects. We hope that you have similar success exactly dot com. You made the funny joke about about bash scripts and dave said of those working and that brings me to the the chapter on software entropy this idea of software rot. I am personally right now. Actively trying to get a fifteen year old blogging system that uses x._m._l. For its back end up and running cross-platform on all new software and i'm just trying to get the thing to build and like nothing's really changed <unk> except basically everything has changed yeah. It's it's it's insidious because i actually had an opportunity to pull a an old. It was either an iphone or an ipod touch some old bit of gear out of the drawer. That was maybe seven eight nine ten years old and <hes>. I couldn't even connect to any websites on oh certificates because certificates because the s._s._l. Protocols have changed because the novel little bits of the plumbing who changed that. Oh that's all it's insecure. You can't even load <hes> you know modern websites on an older bit of gear and you would think thank well okay got its h._d._p. H._t._m._l. Nothing has changed. Well think again you know enough has changed that. You can't get there from here. Jimmy coming back to your your your x._l. Thing i think the other thing is we tend to have this rosy view of life with simpler back then and so you could say wall he worked in the past as if it was a no-brainer back then why isn't it working now but we all tend to forget that getting it to work in the past also involved downloading seventeen different versions of liebeck's mellon so you found the one that was compatible with whatever software using and then it will always incompatible with this version the read line and therefore going to change this and so i don't know about you but <hes> one of the reasons i switched from links to a mac was i just got so sick sick of spending at least half of my day dependency managing the whole time so you know it's it's if you imagine you have one of those systems back then that you had just managed to get working. You go all dependencies right and i said to you. Hey scott stop doing that for a month. It goes spare on me because at the under the months right three things to be out of date and fifteen years forget it. I mean you know just rewrite it may well so there is a ruby script buried carried in the thing that apparently tidied up and did some cleaning of my x._m._l. Files and it was using like ruby two point one point four and i was trying to go an app to get that version of ruby and it's not available so then it's like. I don't know what the semantic version rules are ruby. If i could just go to two point one point three or six or seven and i ended up shaving being the ac for about three hours trying to figure out which had to get a ruby script to work because of version because of rot because of <hes> and of course we've all had had the experience where a repository disappears off the internet entirely. It's offer can't even be downloaded but then the children the kids today will tell you that it's all about containers and i should be doing everything as a container -tainer and having my build system live of you know basically in amber just freeze dry it in amber like a bug amber and have my whole build system there which which is fine until you have to interface with the rest of the world like with the phone and the draw and then the rest of the world has moved on and it doesn't matter what you've got an amber. You're still gonna run into the problems okay so what's the pragmatic thing to do. The primary thing to do is to say that software rot is a real thing yeah. If you don't touch a piece of software it will gradually stopped working which is really counterintuitive but it's absolutely true so if there is software that you suspect suspect that you want to be using for a long time you're going to have to put some effort into it in the same way that you know if you live somewhere you going to do it a maintenance every now and then otherwise just gonna fall apart same thing with software and part of that maintenance is the code but to me the most important part of that maintenance is thinking about the data <hes> and joy backups. Do i have backups in a format that can use if i lose the original and you know all these kind of questions are things that you're always asking yourself as part of the ongoing maintenance issues so i think the pragmatic approach is simply. Don't do it. Don't just leave the software for an come back to it and hope it's a work because it won't well see now. You feel like i need to go. Get my zip disks and make sure that they still work. I think my job was drivers here so yeah those backups on v._h._s. tape yeah that's yeah no i actually had a whole set of backups on some incredibly expensive debt storage i bought right and i had like i don't know like a fifteen hundred dollar debt drive and i had about twenty thirty backup tapes and when i moved house i looked at those threw away. 'cause i just thought okay. This is like never ever ever going to work for start at a scuzzy interface ice on it. <hes> this is never gonna work. What's the point. I've never actually gone to these types. Throw them away and i think that's that's kind of like to some some extent. One of the things that we do roman software. Is we tend to revere it too much a lot of the stress of that software if you consider it to be disposable the <hes> some bits of software like if you were writing software for pacemaker. It probably pays to get it right but a lot of software really yeah. You don't have to worry that much much at if you have to throw it away to throw it away and start again not mine and so i think if he could bring the cost of experimentation down on the cost of replacing in down then a lot of those stresses go away yeah. That's one of the points we make in the book is that you know it might be better to think about writing software where knowing that you're going to replace it rather than trying to invest in fortune telling that will how how might this be extended in the future. How could this be more maintainable. Forget forget that because you have no idea you know what's going to happen but you know worst case scenario whatever does happen. You're gonna have to rip this thing out so okay. How can i make it easy. Terrip this piece out when it's no longer functioning now. You've got better coupling cohesion apple pie all those things right <hes> <hes> yeah just figure. It's going to change in such a way that you're not going to be able to fix it great so let's toss it out. Throw it out right so in the context of my blogging system mm-hmm what i need is the twenty years of x. files and and graphics. I need the blog whether it's wordpress goes or whatever i don't really care if i correctly the same thing as you did and had x._m._l. Than it turned into <hes> what was it textile and then it turned back into x. smell for a while while and then it went down you know and the most important thing has to be rid retain enough semantic information in the data right i can reconstructed and ultimately all i care about in this context of my new migration is my u._r._l.'s because up often and so long as i don't change that and i've got the same data hopefully flee. It'll be a it'll be a good experience and hopefully i will be able to have the pragmatic programmer twentieth anniversary edition updated. How how updated is this become much. Did you change. There's lots changed in twenty years. We changed a lot a lot of different levels so you're on the one hand we probably made at its it leased several edits to every single page. I escaped <hes> and some of that was just the the low level obvious stuff right so where we'd been talking about cora and are am i and exciting new languages like tom and interesting languages like eiffel and right and the what odd never heard of these things <hes> yeah so there's a lot of technology obviously that didn't <hes> survive the passage of time and there were a lot of tips tips where the tip is still spot on like like the dry principle or or not broken windows or whatever but we have found better ways to express it better ways to talk about it. We've discovered people taking the advice the wrong way. Maybe we expanded on the dry. Principle apple a bit because that's come to mean to a lot of people don't copy and paste and it's not about that. It's about duplicating knowledge so you may have a literal copy of something to different places and that's fine because it serving different purposes. It's in a different context like we were saying before. That's not a dry violation. <hes> we had some advice in the first book of saying like well. You should use meta data to push decisions out out of the code so you don't have to re compile and redeploy. If you just need to change some bit of configuration right great advice we had <hes> some people take that to the extreme and their application had forty thousand configuration variables in it but you told me to andy. It's your right exactly actly so there was there was things like that were we'd gotten feedback years and and figure okay well. This is something we should clarify. We should tell tell the story we should mention you know a a drop will cure you. If you drink the whole bottle. You're gonna die. Yes we went through input skull-and-crossbones on quite a few things so we did that kind of <hes> housekeeping <hes> and his andy said that was pretty pervasive. Basically we also took out <hes> fair few tips and instead of some new ones <hes> partly because the world has changed so for example the first edition kind of touched on currency but back then <hes> the idear having sixteen kohl's in a laptop was like star trek so <hes> the world has changed and so we beefed up we have a whole new chapter now on currency and and also the world has changed in terms of <hes> socially that the <hes> the ethics of programming is becoming becoming more important <hes> the ethics of personal interactions become more important and so we've added <hes> content to try to address both of those things <hes> and in general you know every now and then there's a tip that i just really really really wanted to write you know over the <unk> <unk> of the intervening twenty years all. I wish i'd have put that one in and so now we have the opportunity to put them in so probably about or about a third. Andy is brand new probably about that and yes some some topics warned even a concern back then so we have a whole new section on security <hes> because back in the day we would just struggling to get the stuff to run right. We we didn't have to worry about you. Know deliberate attacks from bad actors <hes> locally or around around the world <hes> or what might be so you know. That's a whole new landscape that i'm sure twenty years from now when we do the fortieth anniversary edition will we'll have a lot more to say with a whole section on a and making sure you don't make skynet exactly the pleased. It'll be a whole section on how not to upset skynet right right right off switch. You need a big offs tastic. Well thank you so much andy hunt and dave <unk> thomas for chatting with me today always a pleasure. Thanks for having us. The book is the pragmatic programmer from journeyman to master. It is now in its twentieth anniversary updated version. They'll be <hes> links and the show notes. You can pick this up. It is great for everyone whether you've been in software for twenty years or twenty minutes. I encourage you to check it out. This has been another episode of hansel minutes minutes and we'll see you again next week <music>.

programmer dave thomas david andy developer andy david scott hanson andrew hunt jeffrey auditor Russia consultant andy hunt ohio skynet twitter united states
EP41 - 5 Tips on Landing an Entry Level Programming Job

How to Program with Java

15:50 min | 1 year ago

EP41 - 5 Tips on Landing an Entry Level Programming Job

"And the coders campus podcast where you'll learn how to code from one of the best teachers in the industry whether you're an absolute beginner or a seasoned pro the coders campus podcast will teach you what you need to know to master the art of program and now your host Trevor Page Ladies and Gentlemen and my fellow coders welcome back to the podcast so for those of you who've been following along with me in real time welcome back. I've been gone for quite a while so what the heck has been going on for those of you who have been recently just listening than this just seems like any other episode but really it's been over a year now. Since I've published my last podcasts so for that I sincerely apologize but I do have a few good excuses as one of which was I had to get a fulltime job. You know business is not as easy as it used to be so I had to get a job that the good stuff that have come has come from that is I've been reinjected back into all aspects of professional coding and I've I've got a lot of takeaways that I'm going to be able to share with you in upcoming episodes as well as a bunch of interview processes that I've gone through and that sort of what I want to focus in on for the upcoming lessons episodes whatever you WanNa call them for the next probably month or so I wanNA talk shop about a career related stuff tough which is not something that we have done on the podcast yet now what I've actually done is I recorded myself talking about this stuff in a video format and I've pulled the the audio out of that video shoot and place it into this podcast so that's what you are about to listen to but no worries. You're not missing anything other than me sitting on a couch talking if you don't watch video and all you're doing is listening to the audio. There's nothing other than like. I said me you're not missing anything so don't worry about that so we'll get into that very very soon but I I want to say that the reason why I'm finally back other than you know just the long hiatus and I should be back anyway is because this podcast is finally getting a sponsor. I should say about what is the sponsor. I shouldn't say finally getting a sponsor because this sponsor is one that you guys are familiar with and that is obviously my own business sponsoring this podcast series so what that means is. I have a an upcoming bootcamp that I'm running. This is the first time I'm ever running a real boot camp. It'll be a part-time boot camps for those of you who already have full-time jobs can still attend those of you who don't have fulltime jobs. It's still still a good fit because you'll be able to have time to do this evenings and weekends that kind of thing now there's more details about the podcast coming up at the end of this episode so I won't give away too much but yeah it's coming up fairly soon and I'm very excited about it obviously and if your goal is is to get a job or transition into a programming career specifically in the Java field then listen up. This is going to be good stuff off for you. You might be very very interested especially around the guarantee that I'm providing in this boot camp so there's your sponsored by message now without further ado you. Let's get into the good stuff so in this particular video I want to talk about the specifics around the interview process sort of before four we get to the interview itself so tips and tricks around how to essentially land your very first interview or maybe your tenth interview when it comes to getting a job as a coder now one very common mistake that I see when it comes to the students that I train on the Java programming language in full Stack Java and really any programming language at all is they often try to seek certifications. They put a lot of weight and effort in a certifications particularly particularly those that did not pursue a post secondary education. Perhaps they didn't go to university or college or whatever and got a degree or a diploma in the field field of programming in general so they try to make up for that by adding a bunch of certifications to their resume. I can totally see why you would wanNA do that but I've actually interviewed. HR professionals hiring managers recruiters on this specific topic and to my utter surprise. I'm not even kidding about this. I was really surprised by this. That's actually a negative one. They see that on your resume. They see a bunch of certifications. They actually see see that as a negative meaning that you place more effort into trying to get a certification and less effort on real world stuff because let's face it. Certifications and exams are don't really necessarily reflect real world scenarios so that's why they really don't play a lot of merit to a certification. Does it mean that having one certification is going to hurt you. I don't think so it doesn't hurt to have one certification. Just don't try to have a whole bunch now. This leads me to my second point which is instead of leaning on certifications build projects. Okay have a get hub repository or a bit bucket repository. Whatever report that you want to use have a repository of projects that you personally have built from scratch and hopefully delete these APPs that you build our real world okay. They don't have to be real world but at least they have to apply to the field that you're trying to get into okay so if you're trying to be a game programmer you know you probably don't want to build Web APPs. You probably want to build games and put them in your portfolio and vice versa if you're an enterprise web application developer which is the stuff that I focus on. You know doing game. Programming is probably not going to help your case out okay but what you want to show here. Is You WANNA show that you are a self starter. You're able to get projects done on your own and it also shows that you have a passion for programming because if you're willing to do this in your spare time you must like the stuff okay so that's what HR professionals recruiters. I hiring manders. That's what they want to see on your resume. If you don't have any real world experience okay so you don't have any real world experience. I highly highly recommend end projects projects projects. Get Him in there. get them on your hub depository. Eh put that on your resume so this leads me to my third point which is unfortunately the way. The world works is most of the jobs are in the big cities so if you live seven hours away from the nearest big city the the chances of landing a job are going to be very difficult. I know I was in this position myself so I had to move closer to a big city. Now that's not to say that there aren't any remote opportunities turns out there where you can work as remote employees and maybe go into the office only once every other week or once a month or once every six months. What have you those jobs exist but they are very very much. there the rarity there the rare the exception to the rule at the moment definitely organizations are going more towards remote work environments but we're not there yet where that's the majority k. That's definitely the minority currently in two thousand nineteen so that's just the way the cookie crumbles with that one so if you don't live near a big city I'm sorry you're probably going to have to consider going to live up your entire life. I know it's difficult but it's the reality of the situation when it comes to programming the other option is you can be a freelancer k. Freelancers generally aren't required to be in an office. Okay so you can go to a website website like up work dot com and you can sign up to be a programmer there and you can offer your services as a freelancer but again potential clients freelance his clients are going to want to see examples of other work that you've done so that goes back to my second point projects projects projects okay point number. Four four is around working smart when it comes to applying for jobs when I first got out of university and I tried to get a job my first first job I tried to apply to. I think it was like ten day or something I would apply to go through at the time that I graduate. I think it was like I was at work. Hop Palace or monster dot com or something like that was the job website that I used these days is more like indeed or something like that but I would apply to ten a day twenty a day going just for for straight volume of firing my resume out everywhere in praying. It's the spraying and praying method. If you're familiar with that that's not working smart okay so the smarter way to work is to use recruiters. Okay head hunters. Fine recruiters are head hunters on length in make sure that you have a good linked in profile highlight as much as you can about yourself in your own. Lincoln profile put those projects from point number for two into your linked in profile and then try to reach out to head hunters in your area and say hey. I am Java Programmer. I'm a PHP program Maroma python programming whatever the case may be let them know what your skill set is and say what is it. You're looking for Cam looking for full stack web application opportunities. I'm looking for back end looking for front end. I'm looking to be a database administrator. Whatever the case may be reach out to instead of individual jobs reach out to individual recruiters because that is a one to many potential relationship that your building because those recruiters now are incentivized to find you a job and they're going to go and they're going to do the spray and in pray for you on your behalf k. My first job is essentially got through a recruiter. Okay that is actually that's. That's not entirely true. The person found around me on a job website and reach out to me my second job. I got because of a recruiter so in both instances all of my individual applications that I sent out on on the job sites. None of them not a single one lead to a single interview. Okay the only interviews that I got from people who organically found me on these websites website so make sure your resume is publicly available somewhere and everywhere and the other one was to recruiter okay so none of hard effort with you know the the process of spraying and praying never worked out for me at any point in my career so highly recommend going recruiters now this leads me to my fifth and final final point here and this is a little bit of a trick that some of you might not love it might not be a very popular opinion but this is kind of the real world getting an entry level position then in almost any field outside of even programming is pretty tough because most employers want to see that you already have that experience so again go back to point number two projects projects projects next have those in your on your resume and in your hub profiles. That's definitely can help but in the situation where you just can't find any me. Jobs are just not getting any call backs. Here's what I would recommend tried to get into a company that does the development in the language that you want wants to do it in so for example if you're a java programmer or aspiring Java programmer find a company that does have a Java programming department but apply to a QA position in that company or applied to a position that you don't still interest you instill has some sort of correlation with the programming ending world the world of tech the world of it but not necessarily as a programmer okay so actually my first job wasn't being a Java programmer. My first job was a form analyst and what that meant was. I worked for an insurance company where I helped them put together. The insurance documents that got mailed mailed out to their clients and there was only a tiny fraction of my job that required me to know anything about programming. I'm saying three percent five percent of the job. Bob was programming ninety. Five percent of job was using some proprietary software that they use to mix and match forms together. It was very boring. It was arduous. It was not inspiring work but they had a Java programming department in that same company and within one year of showing them. I was a good employee I did good work and I said that I was interested in being a Java programmer and I kept saying I would love to move to the Java development team. That's where my passion was and I think that'd be a great employee as a programmer within a year I was moved to that team and that's where my career's been ever since so there. Is something thing to be said about paying your dues when it comes to getting a job that might not directly programming related at first but it's going to get you your foot in the door in a a company that hopefully like I said you already know has some sort of a programming department that you can then move into okay so this is a great way to get an entry level position. lot more reliably okay so there's a lot there's a lot less skills required to be A. QA person no offense anyway people. That may be looking at watching this video. There's a a certain set of skills. That doesn't require necessarily a programming skill set to be a QA person and you don't necessarily need a university degree to be a QA person. You just need to have a mind of tester. which if you're a programmer you're? GonNa have that anyway so those to correlate very well. Let's very common career trajectory that I see is started as A. QA person and then move into becoming a programmer programmer or even an automated tester so someone who writes code to create test cases that run automatically also a very lucrative and potentially rewarding rewarding career if you like that kind of thing so now all these five points are to say getting your first job is tough and you know getting the help you need to get that first. Job is obviously going to be very beneficial. And why am I saying that while I've got a new boot camp that I'm teasing this video. It's coming soon. I'm not releasing the exact date just yet because I'm still working out the details but essentially this boot camp is going to be around the Java programming language teaching you everything you need to know to get a job in in the field of Java programming and I'm actually going so far as to say that for this first run. I'm going to guarantee that. Every single person in this boot camp is going to get a job job at at the end of this boot Camp Okay and what I'm doing is if you do not get a job by the boot camp the boot camp again and I'm GonNa keep on trying to find you the job. I'M GONNA to keep on networking for you doing everything I can to get you that job. That is my guarantee that I'm doing. This boot camp so that's exciting to you. That's exactly what you want. Then then pay attention to these youtube and podcast series that I'm putting out here because more information is coming about this boot camp. I'm very excited. Hopefully you are too and I can't wait to see you on the inside so until next time happy learning take care of yourself. Thanks for listening to this episode of the coders campus podcast but before you go trevor has a favorite ask you in order to keep these episodes free. He'd love for you to leave a rating and review the podcast on items just go to coders campus dot com mm slash review to leave your own rating and review of the show so if you have thirty seconds to spare right now please help out by leaving rating and review the coders campus dot com slash. Rubio Review It will ensure that you continue to get these awesome free podcast episodes each and every week so if you like free swag head on over to coders campus dot com slash trivial happy learning.

programmer Programmer Trevor Page youtube Hop Palace developer Rubio Lincoln Cam administrator analyst Bob
S5E21: The End of Season 5

Learn to Code with Me

03:26 min | 1 year ago

S5E21: The End of Season 5

"Hey listeners. Thank you so much for tuning into season five of the learn to code podcast. I hope you join this season. We've looked at which gills you should be learning different career options in routes into tack and getting past obstacles like a lack of time or experience or motivation posture syndrome in really difficult times. I hope I covered topics that you found useful and interviewed guests that you found inspiring above all I hope that what you learned. Here has helped you move forward in your own learn to co journey I'd also like to thank our partners for the season. Because without then the show would it be possible. So thank you. Joe Joe full stack academy flat iron school back. Blaze skill crush, the check mean ride home podcast interview, Kate and the learn to code with me patrons season five may be over. But you won't have to wait long for the next episode. My special bonus episode is going to be dropping in just two weeks. Make sure your subscribed to hear me open up about my journey detect starting learn to code with me in more seasoned six is already in the works. I've record handful of interviews with lots more lined up. The next season is going to start in April. And you can look forward to hearing from a podcast listener who was inspired by the show in went on to land a job as a fulltime junior. Developer a totally blind. Programmer who talks all about excessively attack, the founder of moms can code in a lot more guests if you're curious to get behind the scenes look at upcoming episodes, or if you wanna have your say on the guests and topics that cover please consider becoming a patron of the show, you can do that for as little as a few dollars every month over at learn to code with dot me for slash pledge during the short break between seasons. I'm going to be working on a couple of big projects that really excited about the first minutes heard about if you signed up to get emails from me. And that's a course. I've been building on landing your first technical side gag I've been taking an amazing group of pilot students through the program getting their feedback on it and making it as useful as possibly can be. I'm going to release that later this year. So if you'd like to start making money from your tech skills, keep an eye out for that coming up, and that's not all I've also been working hard on a secret surprise coming your way this spring. There's so much hard work going into it. And I can't wait to tell you about it to make sure that you hear what all of these things are going out make sure signed up on my Email list. You can do that by heading to learn to code with dot me and entering your Email address. You'll also get my ten free tips for learning how to code when he do that. When he signed up for the Email list out send you occasional emails about one off discounts resources that recommend in my latest blog posts. Plus, sometimes there are projects that only ever tell might Email us about I never shared them on the podcast or on social media. So it's definitely the best way to stay in the loop. Thank you again for tuning in this season. As always I'd love to hear any feedback that you have in your views are always appreciated have great view weeks in see you in season six.

Kate Joe Joe Programmer Developer founder two weeks
Three Co-Worker Anti-Patterns

Developer Tea

15:42 min | 2 years ago

Three Co-Worker Anti-Patterns

"The. For much of your career, you're going to be focused on the aspects of being a programmer that's produce code. The ideas of Dopp tting a language or framework, or ninety elegy or enacting some kind of best practice as developer often are discussed in terms of the product that we create, and while the shouldn't be ignored, we can think further we can think beyond just the things that we make and more specifically we can think about the people that we make them. With today's episode, we're discussing anti patterns. Specifically, we're going to discuss three anti patterns that you are probably either experiencing or participating in with your co workers. My name's Jonathan Cottrell and you're listening to develop not my goal in the show is to help driven developers like you connect to your career purpose. See you can do better work and have a positive influence on the people around you. And that's exactly what this episode. Owed is about having a positive influence on the people around you, not a negative one. And so we often develop habits either because we've learned them throughout our earlier life experiences. We've observed them. Maybe we've emulated the people around us, and maybe we have developed them because of some kind of since of protection. There's all sorts of reasons that humans act the way that they do. In today's episode, we're gonna talk about specific behaviors the you can avoid to improve the relationship that you have with your co workers. And before we get started, we don't have a sponsor for today's episode, but in lieu of us not having a sponsor, I encourage you while you're listening to this episode before it's over and by the way will be over pretty quickly because our episodes of pretty short on the show. Oh, and courage to pull out your phone or whatever device you're listening to this podcast on and subscribe. This is the best way to make sure you don't miss out on future episodes like this one. Okay. Let's jump straight in to these three anti patterns of co worker relationships. Number one labeling. This is something that we haven't really talked much about on the show. We have talked about the pitfalls of stereotyping and why it's so important to avoid stereotyping as developers. But I wanna talk about this other behavior and it's called labeling. It's very simple. It is the idea that you can reduce person to single dimension and then give that dimension some kind of signifier some label. Oh, it's not always as simple as you know, giving somebody a single word label like nerd, for example, this is obviously a bad idea and hopefully we've come past this in our in our culture, collective kind of conscience as a culture, but it goes beyond that. It goes beyond that to even labeling people, things that we think are good. We may label somebody the UI expert on the team misses the way that we described them, and it may feel like a way of providing a sense of deference a positive label for someone else. Now, here's the problem. Of course, I, it is exacerbated when that label denote something negative, but people are not when dimensional developers are not one dimensional, even your skill sets. In fact, perhaps even mostly your skill sets are. Not when dimensional. Furthermore, as we grow in our careers, most people have aspirations and those aspirations tend to be relatively complex. Their interests tend to be relatively complex. And so when you apply a single dimension label to another person, you've essentially created a relationship that is limited. In other words, that person is not going to see you has their advocate. They're going to see you as someone who will use them in a very specific narrow role. Of course, this has to be balanced. If you have a title in your job, or if you do have a specific role in your job, then it's reasonable to expect some level of specificity, but in normal conversation, especially when you're not formalizing these disc-. Russians, you know, for example, if you're formalizing it in a pitch where you're showing everybody's titles instead, if this is just over lunch, for example, and you reduce somebody's identity down to this single dimension, even if it's a good thing in your mind, even if they're incredibly skilled. And even if they like that thing and they accept that label, this is still limiting the complexity and the multidimensional reality that is that person's experience as a human being. Now, this isn't to say that you have to go and apply all of those labels to that person. You don't have to know everything about a person. You'll have to understand all of their skill sets. You don't have to understand all of their interests, but what you do need to do, and this is backed up by research, a healthy perspec-. Live on co. Workers begins with the perspective that that person's personality is not fixed. Their interests are not fixed. Their skill sets are not fixed. That person's experiences are changing all the time. Their perspectives are changing all of the time. And so this other person that you encounter on a regular basis is a complex human being and developing a healthy respect for the complexity of all of your co. Workers is a baseline for creating better relationships, so that is anti pattern. Number one in it's a big one labeling. When you do the opposite of labeling. The kind of antidote for the anti pattern of labeling is instead to ask questions, ask the person that you otherwise would be labeling to introduce themselves to tell you what they're interested. It in. If you give up the floor and instead of making this an opportunity for you to improve your insight into that person, instead give them the floor, allow the other person to speak for themselves, says powerful implications in this doesn't necessarily mean that you have to put them on the spot. That's not the point here. Instead, the idea here is to provide the respect of believing that someone else has a complex personality that can't be reduced to a single dimension. Okay, let's move onto anti pattern. Number two. That is something I'm calling iceberg criticisms. This is a very simple concept and most of us have probably experienced this. If you are a developer, especially, and you've gotten into conversations with people about various types of technology, then you've probably experienced this this kind of weird phenomenon. Where developer will disagree and then not tell you the reasons they disagree this iceberg criticism. I'm calling ice for criticism because it's like you seen only a very small part of why that person has an issue. Let's say, with a particular practice pattern that someone's using a way of going about the process of programming and they share only enough for you to know that they disagree that they're kind of on the opposite side of the fence. But in the name of for example, avoiding an argument. Often people won't detail why it is that they disagree. The problem with this is not that you have disagreements. Disagreements are healthy, they're important and it's important to work through them. The problem is that if you begin down this road of having these iceberg criticisms and people are. Are going to see you as generally contrarian. And on top of that, you're not providing a better way. So the first problem of being generally contrarians that very few people are going to seek out your advice. In fact, they will likely start to avoid you if you have only criticism and no alternative advice. Of course, a better way here is to provide reasonable criticism when you have good reasons to back it up when you have experiences for example, but also to recognize that those criticisms that you're bringing to the table are your opinions. If you come to the table and you have entirely disagreed with other people and you won't tell them why verses coming to the table and saying, I have a different opinion than you. Here's what I've experienced. This is a much more open conversation. People are much more likely to engage with you and you're much more likely to be able to affect positive change. Now, the absolutely most important piece of advice I can give you when dealing with criticisms and sharing criticisms is that you must be open to hearing other people's opinions, not only open to hearing their opinions, but also considering whether their way could be better than your way most of the time. The answer in these kinds of arguments is that neither one of you is necessarily right or wrong? There's just different approaches, different ways of getting things. Done and more specifically different ways of doing things given different contexts. We've talked about this a lot on this show and trying to create black and white arguments. This is something that is criticisms. Does it says that I see this issue as black. This issue that you're saying is mostly white. I see it as black, but I don't want to discuss it. I don't wanna get into this comes across his era that comes across as if you're not really open to discussing your opinions and you're certainly not open to changing your opinions. This is a very bad habit to get into as we've already discussed. So I'm curt you to instead approach with openness and a willingness. If you're going to share your criticisms, your disagreements, a willingness to provide an alternative. Okay. Let's move onto number three. The in the. Third anti pattern when dealing with co workers. In today's episode, we're gonna talk about a third anti pattern called the protagonist of session. They protagonist obsession. The idea of this anti pattern is that in every conversation you make yourself the protagonist, if you're not familiar with the term, the protagonist is the person at the center of the story, the hero in the story. We've all experienced this person and we all know what if feels like to have a conversation with this person. Anytime you make a comment or tell a story, this person doesn't chime in too. Comment on your experience instead they turn around and they tell a story that is somehow related to yours, but about themselves very often. This person is also guilty of another kind of bonus anti pattern for today's episode, and that is one ping telling a story that is equally or even more unbelievable or interesting or impressive than your story. Now, this anti pattern is very easy to fall into because it seems like you're participating in conversation. It seems like you're being social. It feels like you're actually interacting with your co workers. The problem is that you've turned the spotlight on yourself an every opportunity that you have the antidote to this anti pattern is to ask questions. Surprisingly, if you have no. Noticed the all three of these inti patterns have been about making everything about yourself about your own beliefs about your own stories. When instead you turn your interest from yourself to someone else, this fulfills a fundamental need for human connection and that is that you're actually interested in the people around you instead of only being self interested, you're interested in the well being of your co workers, you're interested in understanding them as people. Ultimately, these anti patterns can be very difficult to avoid and we all will fail from time to time. It's important to remind ourselves on a regular basis that the people around us have their own experiences. They have their own designs, their complex human beings, and we can't reduce. Use them to a single dimension. We have to recognize that other people's beliefs and experiences are valid, Mike, our own. And we have to remember that our story is not the only story that matters. So I encourage you to take a moment and think about your co workers. Each time that you inter-active with your co workers try to learn something about them. Instead of approaching every day as if your co workers are just extras in the movie that you're starring in, imagine what it would be like if you were the supporting character. Thank you so much for listening to today's episode and I encourage you once again to subscribe. If you've enjoyed this episode, you will probably like more episodes and we do three of these of week, so it's easy to get behind. It's easy to forget to subscribe, go into whatever podcasting you're using right now then subscribed. Thank you so much for listening and until next time enjoy your team.

developer Jonathan Cottrell programmer Mike
#1162 - Programmer Automates Profit With Birthday Reminders

Side Hustle School

08:07 min | 9 months ago

#1162 - Programmer Automates Profit With Birthday Reminders

"What's up readings and welcome is Priscilla Priscilla School episode. Eleven sixty two. There's episode is going out on seven. Th of March twenty twenty which means that. It is thirty days to go until the money tree is out. I'm so excited about. My new book is going to be doing forty cities. You can now visit money tree book dot Com to see those tour dates and cities in most cases the events free. We just ask that you buy a book to support the book store or venue. It's a chance to meet lots of like minded people who are all trying to start hustle or grow hustle or otherwise to something to invest in themselves and also have an all new presentation. There might be cupcakes a good time. We'll be had by all etc once again at money. Tree Book Dot Com. All right in today's story. They software developer celebrates when he's automatic birthday greeting software gives him the ultimate present. What is that president will? Of course it is extra monthly income. It's also an ideal illustration of working with constraints which will talk about a little bit. Because sometimes people see their limitations as a weakness. They say oh. I only have X. amount of time to work on my project so I am at a disadvantage compared to somebody else. Or maybe there's some other limitation or constraint. But I think in reality these constraints can be very helpful in giving you focus because there's so many different things you could do if you have a constraint. You're like okay well. I can only do one of these things have to fit everything. Within these parameters the story is called programmer. Automates profit with birthday. Reminders Doc in twenty fourteen. Stephen Braverman was fresh out of college and starting a new career as a software developer company. He worked for had an interesting culture in encourage failure and all their employees their unofficial mantra was failing. Then you're not trying hard enough. Stephen embraced this way of thinking both working outside it. He spent much of his extracurricular time working on improving his skills. You decided the best way to do that was to think of a problem. Then apply a new technology in creating a solution for it. He added some self imposed constraints. Those were that it had to solve a problem. He himself had and he would spend at most two weeks bringing it to life. It was a Sunday afternoon when he first gave birth to the idea of creating automatic birthday. Greetings service this was something he wished existed because he was always forgetting to wishes friends and family. Happy Birthday the idea both of his criteria. It was a simple project he could do it in a short amount of time and it was a problem. We had so. He poured himself a cup of coffee. Let the birthday candles and began the exploratory work. It wasn't long before he had reason to celebrate what came up with was a lightweight. Coated script worked like this. When he opened up his web browser and logged into facebook it would check and see if any of his friends had birthdays that day. And if so the SCRIP would automatically publish a message to that friends. Facebook wall over the next few days he converted the script to a Google Chrome Extension. Basically small pieces of software. That you can add to your browser. He named the extension birthday buddy. Not put it to the chrome store. To his surprise. People began downloading using it and those initial users gave him some helpful feedback. Stephen Feedback added some requested features. First stop was an ability to create multiple birthday messages and randomized between them. So that your post didn't look can't second was adding reporting so users could see how many messages were sent and to whom these features were helpful and the users love them but Stevens Balloon had burst. You didn't touch the extension again for two years. He just got distracted and started doing other stuff completely checked out at birthday buddies first birthday party but fast forward to two thousand seventeen and a discussion with a friend led him to check his download numbers. He noticed that the extension had matured quite a bit and hit nearly five thousand users. This little tool he'd made was growing up. It was growing up so fast. And of course he didn't want to be an absent parent so he committed to spending a little more time on it and fix a few bucks. It was during that process but he had a revelation. The one thing he disliked about birthday buddy that you had to be logged into facebook for it to work if you didn't log in one day the system wouldn't know who had birthdays and wouldn't send the greetings a big problem and once even thought he could solve with a bit more coding so he pulled out. The keyboard got to work once more eventually. Finding a way to solve that problem a user could create an account link their facebook profile. And then birthday buddy would automatically send greetings even if you weren't locked in up until now the only money Stephen had made from the project was via donations. A few of his users had requested bug fixes and offered to send him a few dollars for the help. It made him wonder if this was something more people would pay for to test it out. He launched the new version as a separate standalone product and built in a subscription layer. You would charge five dollars per month to have all their birthday. Greetings sent automatically by the time he got everything. Set up it was approaching the end of two thousand eighteen. There was no birthday party. No big show instead. Stephen silently launched birthday buddy to the world and like the perfect birthday gift. He got exactly what he wanted over the next few weeks. He began receiving paid subscribers. One at first then a few more and if more after that over the course of the next year more users signed by the end of twenty nineteen he was making around one thousand dollars a month in subscription income. Money has earned him enough to more comfortably. Spend on things. He likes including two laptops software and dining out built on that problem we had and that initial constraint of spending only two weeks on the project. It's a level of success worth celebrating earlier this week in the classroom episode. We talked about giving people what they want. This is a really easy simple project especially for someone who has those kind of coding skills and for consumers. It is cheap way to remember. Your friend's birthdays. Pretty low cost commitment five dollars a month. Of course you can cancel anytime but if you're actively using that service you're gonNA keep paying for it and perhaps that will lead to Stevens recurring income increasing but even if it doesn't He's still earning a thousand dollars. A month from a simple project built on those constraints so my encouragement to use to allow yourself to see constraints and limitations as something that can help you focus as opposed to something that holds you back now. Here's a weird math birthday fun. Fact close out the episode. This is also known as the birthday paradox. You had a group of just twenty three people. There is a fifty fifty chance of at least two people having the same birthday and a group of seventy five. There is a ninety nine point. Nine percent chance of at least two people matching. If you don't believe me. Go Google it. It's called the birthday paradox. Weird and wonderful statistic seventy five people. You have ninety nine percent ninety nine point nine percent chance of at least two people having the same birthday in a smaller group. Twenty three people fifty fifty chance. How is that possible when there are three hundred sixty five days in the year but perhaps Google will tell you? Thank you so much friends and listeners. Inspiration is good but inspiration with action is better. Today's show no it's alright SOTTILE SCHOOL DOT com slash. Levin at sixty two. I'll be back tomorrow. We work toward that date. April seventh book launch. But of course much more coming up it is the year of interaction new episodes every day. And I'm so glad to know you're out there once again. This is your host Chris. Gayle about for side-hustle school from the onward project.

Stephen facebook software developer Google Priscilla Priscilla School Stephen Braverman Stephen Feedback Stevens Balloon president programmer SCRIP Levin Gayle Chris Stevens five dollars two weeks three hundred sixty five days
You Don't Have to Be a Slave to Self-Improvement

Developer Tea

12:48 min | 10 months ago

You Don't Have to Be a Slave to Self-Improvement

"Why do you think you need to be great if this question caught your attention? It's likely because you like so many other people have this implicit goal as built in drive something informing you that you need to be improving the need to continue working becoming coming better at your craft becoming faster or somehow improving all the time towards some endless goal. Where did this come from? And how does it function and our lives or perhaps more importantly. How does it make our lives dysfunctional? Well that's what I'm talking about in today's episode of Developer T. My name is Jonathan Cottrell and go on the show itself. Driven developers like you find clarity perspective and purpose in their careers when we allow our surrounding culture to set our goals for us we. We will adopt the goals of the average person in that culture. Think about this. It's a simple concept when we you don't set your own goals instead we will fall to the systems that we've created around us particularly most most likely. We will set goals that the people that were close to set. We will mirror our social situations or our work situations very often. Those are marrying some kind of larger culture that they're part of and right. Now it is very common Particularly in American culture or American influenced culture to adopt this goal of always improving with the mindset that there is never going to be a point where I am satisfied. And here's the reality. They WanNa make a distinction here because this episode this show wouldn't exist if we didn't believe leave. That developers have good reason for improving in fact the whole purpose of the SPEC network is to help nope designers and developers level up in their careers. But here's what I want to make very clear about the network about this show if you come to the table table without any of your own goals in mind if you're just trying to become a better designer or a better developer without knowing why you want to become a better designer or developer then I encourage you to pause this podcast and ask yourself that that question and I want you to think about this as if you are in that category of people who are just kind of blindly trying to improve because because somehow somewhere you learned you found out that it would be good for you to become a better designer good for you to become a better developer faster developer or to add to your skill set and wants you to view this question as a turning wing point in your career what exactly not abstract not generally but what exactly would becoming better give to you and I want you to be brutally honest about your intentions here. It's okay by the wave. The answer to be would allow me to make more money than I would like to make more money. It's also okay to say that you would feel better about about yourself if you were a little bit more competent as a developer. Perhaps you have a common a common goal all that a lot of people share being able to build really interesting and impactful products. But I want you to get very clear with yourself about y. What is your exact real motivation? Now we don't have to set lifelong goals with this little exercise. And I'm asking you to do this isn't about you know trying to figure out what your whole identity is but instead what should have you this as a determining your source motivation ovation your original motivation and even if the answer is that you don't know that's the kind of thing that I want you to you bring up. Don't try to create a new motivation that didn't exist before. Be Honest with yourself. Where did your desire to become better? Come from we're GONNA take a quick sponsor break but after we come back we're GONNA talk about why it's easy to get caught in the trap of perpetually. Are you trying to improve in one area. Maybe your energy is spent better in a different way. Today's episode is sponsored by Oxy Labs. oxy He labs a top provider of innovative web data gathering services. Like they're real time. crawler their web scraper and the residential and data center proxies oxy oxy labs is now introducing next generation residential proxies. This is eight significantly improved data-gathering solution because here's the reality. Scraping data is really tough if your Ip gets blacklisted for example you no longer get that data and it's hard hard to get blacklisted. That's why oxy labs provides a stable and fast proxy pool of over thirty million global. Ip addresses it's resource-efficient with proxy management user agents Ip rotation. All of this is done on the oxy lab side and with oxy labs. You're going to get block free scraping you can get through things like capture and by the way oxy labs. This is what they do. They have have a deep understanding and knowledge on how to acquire web data. They have a dedicated account manager for every client. And it's already trusted by over five hundred companies for sales intelligence market research. Seo Monitoring and plenty more visit oxy labs dot io slash developer t to find out more about the services and apply for a free trial of their next generation residential proxies. Thanks again oxy labs for sponsoring today's episode of Developer T. At first. I may seem like a silly question that we've asked in this episode. Why do you want to improve? It seems very core to our humanity. Hannity that we want to always get better than we have a desire to learn and adjust and become more effective at what we're trying to do but here's what ends up happening instead very often. We take this idea of wanting to constantly become better to evolve and we compress it. We compress it into one specific way to to become better. We compress all of our goals and our ideals and our results into individual actions or individual all measurements. You can imagine this concept as taking this this broad idea of self-improvement or self bettering getting better over time and we shove it into the small Nehru frame of becoming a better programmer and the assumption is that by becoming a better programmer. We might be able to do more have more control over our lives or perhaps perhaps have a better job. We might be able to create better work better products. We might be able to gain more notoriety amongst our peers amongst a broader culture of programmers. And by doing all these things that somehow while we create more of a foothold to improve more broadly in our lives. We might feel more satisfied if we're creating better better products for example or perhaps we are just going after better economic situations making more money with their jobs very often developers fall into the trap of thinking that the results that they're looking for or are simply accomplished by becoming ed better programmer. Instead I want you to think about this journey of self improvement as abroad an open concept and that perhaps your version of improving and constantly becoming better doesn't necessarily mean the you have an endless path for improving as a programmer. Let me say that one more time because I think this is really critical for a lot of developers to here. It's very possible that I ask a certain point in your career the learning and refinement. The you do to your skill sets has diminishing returns based on your goals. It's an odd thing to say on a developer podcast because seems so ingrained into our heads that we should always be becoming better at our craft but the truth is if we become slaves leaves to our craft then the whole reason that we were trying to become better at our craft in the first place becomes null and void and if the marginal benefits of investing in becoming better are smaller than benefits. We would get if we spend our time in a different way. Then why should we force ourselves to stay on the constant treadmill of a very narrow and specific way of improving. Perhaps the most important thing you can do to improve today his spend your time and a totally different the way because our time is limited we can never improve in every area to a maximum expertise ace because our time is limited. We invest a scarce resource. And perhaps your improvement isn't just about investing that resource into programming. If one of your ultimate goals in life is to end up satisfied happy be enjoying the time that you're spending on a day to day basis the perhaps one of the ways the you can invest that time instead instead of always trying to be better programmer is to stop for a moment to actually take that time then you have and enjoy it. Spend it with friends or doing something that you already love doing. If you're like many programmers this means means that you might spend your time programming but not because you want to learn a new technique that you can use at work but instead because because you do enjoy it that's why a lot of US got into this line of work in the first place not because it was a path to becoming a billionaire but instead it was a path to make things that we enjoyed making. Take time to understand why you want to improve. Y You went to invest your time into becoming a better programmer. You might find that the most important thing you can do to improve is to set down your computer a little more often. Thank you so much for listening to today's episode of developer t inquiry into oxy labs for sponsoring today's episode head over to oxy LABS DOT CO Slash Developer T. To get started. This episode was produced by Sarah Jackson. My name is Jonathan Cottrell until the next time. Enjoy your tea.

developer oxy labs programmer Oxy Labs. oxy Jonathan Cottrell Sarah Jackson US account manager Hannity Nehru
Index Your Big Data With Pilosa For Faster Analytics - Episode 77

Data Engineering Podcast

43:41 min | 1 year ago

Index Your Big Data With Pilosa For Faster Analytics - Episode 77

"The. Hello and welcome to the data engineering podcast the show about modern data management when you're ready to build your next pipeline or want to test out the project to hear about on the show, you'll need somewhere to deploy it. So check out our friends at Leno with two hundred gigabit private networking, scalable, shared, block storage, and forty gigabit public network. You get everything you need to run a fast, reliable and bulletproof data platform, if you need global distribution they've got that covered two with worldwide data centers, including new ones in Toronto and Mumbai and for your machine learning workloads. They just announced dedicated CPU instances good, a data engineering podcast dot com slash lynyrd. That's L. I N OD today to get a twenty dollar credit and launch a new server and under a minute. Alexia was an open source distributed. Data orchestration layer that makes it easier to scale your compute and your storage independently by transparently pulling data from underlying silos Alexio unlocks the value of your data and allows for modern computation intensive workloads to become truly elastic cloud with Alexio companies like Barclays, JD dot com. Ten cent and two sigma can manage data efficiently. Accelerate business and Olympics. And ease the adoption of any cloud. Good a date engineering podcast dot com slash Alexio. That's a l l you X today to learn more and them for their support. And understanding how your customers are using your product is critical for businesses of any size to make it easier. For startups to focus on delivering useful. Features segment offers, a flexible and reliable data infrastructure for your customer analytics custom events, you only need to maintain one integration to instrument your code and get a future proof way to send data to over two hundred fifty services with the flip of a switch. Not only does it free up your engineers time. Let's your business users decide what day do they want wear. Good date engineering podcast dot com slash segment. I o today to sign up for their start up plan and get twenty five thousand dollars and segment credits and one million dollars in free software for marketing and analytics companies like AWS, Google intercom on top of that. You'll get access to analyze six academy for the educational resources. You need to become an expert in data analytics for measuring product market fit. And you listen to this show to learn and stay up to date with what's happening in databases streaming platforms big data and everything else you need to know about modern data management. For even more opportunities to meet listen and learn from your peers, you don't want to miss out on this year's conference season. We have partnered with organizations such as Riley media data versity into the open data science conference. Go to date engineering, podcast dot com slash conferences to learn more. And to take advantage of our partner discounts when you register and good at date engineering podcast dot com. Subscribe to the show sign up for the mailing list. Read the show notes and get in touch, and please help other people find the show by relieving review on I tunes and telling your, friends and coworkers your host is Tobias Macy. And today, I'm interviewing cbs' about Peluso an open source distributed bit map index so cbs'. Could you start by introducing yourself? Seems a type guy have a rod in weird background of what we call it generalists. But I'm particularly interested in performance stuff and high got to blows evil. So I've been doing mostly back end internals. And do you. Remember, how you first get involved in the area of data management loosely through close the I've done some database things on off. But when I started working with close, I'd group that there was this data all this data stuff going on hadn't thought about it. All that more that was what got me involved. And so can you give a bit of an overview about what the Pelosi project is? And any context that you have about the history of the project and how it's gotten to where it is today. Lysa might description of would be essentially it is the index database without arrest of the data storage. It's used as merrily as sort of a dedicated specialized index who leaves it was originally spun off from my company called unbel- was exports marketing related, and you might not expect that when you find a genuinely novel idea in database, designed the origin would be e sports. Money. But think that sometimes the outside perspective is where you get one saying, well, it'd be really nice if we can do this and going and building it because they didn't come from Akron where they'd all been told that isn't what we do. That's why it's a slightly surprising in different project. So it's basically a dedicated index the ideas that Anna traditional database. We often have bid map indexes. And if you have a query hitting two of those indexes, we grabbed it naps from women intersected maps, and so on and but close basically does is store those bit maps and have who already to go and have some optimizations for making those operations faster, which helps a lot. Once you start having very large cardinals in your data's us. I think in a lot of cases with Oprah's. I had a query once which took about forty seven seconds to run. And I add index. It went down about ten milliseconds. And I thought well, there's another part of this query. I add an index for that. And it went back up to five hundred milliseconds because the combining bit map stage was inefficient. And the ideas. Basically, we're doing that part of things and storing result the partial results and that Laos fairly Faust operations. As I was reading through the data model is starting to get a little confused of Howdy, really represent the data here. And then started to realize what the actual use case was as you mentioned being able to operate on high card analogy data where you're working with information that might be, you know, multi dimensional, and you wanna be able to just do fast aggregates on the data without necessarily pulling out individual values like you would with traditional database and so wondering if you can talk a bit more about where Pelosi fits in the overall data ecosystem, and how might integrate into an existing data stack that somebody's using if they're running on something like do or using S three data lake or something along those lines. So I I'm not totally sure what will sorry I've seen some of them. But. What we tend to do is people have an existing database and they have some specific kind of queries. That's being a problem. That's not performing well, which can be reduced in some way to some number of. Yes. Or no questions about entries in their data. And you move that into close sort of flip which are the rose in which are the columns, which is I think one of the surprising arts, and which definitely confused me when I was first reading the documentation because Rosenthal seemed to backwards. So the idea is in normal database, your standard relational database each row is one of your entities. And each column is fact about that an Arsim each column isn't entity and each row is a fact about that into the in you might say, well, why not just call them kala? Rose the other order them. But what homes rose action referred to is these physical structure of the data that at some level that houses are grouped in a traditional as Mel database will typically have the items all the data for a row bundled up. And then each row will be on the love. And when you do a query McCollum, you're selecting part of each of those rows. And when we switch things to having the rose be the facts about a thing what that means is that we have a bit map of. Yes. Or no answers to some question about data, and that one bit map is that question in any of the other questions, which allows us to very rapidly combine them, so so you have questions about people like, you know, is an active member or something like that. And we have a row, which is just the zeroes in one's foot. Where one is, you know, house an active account, for instance. And then we can mask that we can do unions or intersections or whatever to get answers to compound questions about people very quickly. That's what it's useful. For nick. We have a blog post example of using this to do genome comparisons, which are good example, and in the documentation about the data model. It also mentions that you're able to represent a set number of different data types as well. And I'm curious how that manifests in terms of the overall storage system Pelosi, and how that maps into that bit map index of being able to go back and forth of trying to aggregate on a particular set of attributes, but also being being able to identify what those attributes are beyond just in an dimensional matrix. So we. Have a couple of the data types. We've got the default. One is what we call a set, which is just there's rows and columns, and you can have any number of bits set. Then there's a Mutek which is similar to a set. But we only allow one row to be set at a time for a given column, and that's not actually different data representation. That's just different logic that when we set a bit we look for other bits and clear them. There's also some top. There's some caches that get put on top of this like a cache of which columns have the largest number of rows at which was one of the original query with terms that made this seem like us feature and the other representation, we have is it fairly weird one. Which is we represent numbers in this really strange as a series of bits. And that actually doesn't sound nearly revolutionary when you describe it like that the idea is we have all these rows. And if you want a number with range of zero to sixteen we have four rows in the bottom row is one's next rose to and this is not especially officiant because we do need then read all those rows. But we can sort of do this in parallel. And this is used in cases, where you really need a way to represent something like a range, and it's not as blindingly fast as the rest of things we can do, but it's still pretty fast compared to a more traditional structure for. And in terms of the way that you would query a Pelosi database. It's not necessarily the same way that you would think about it with sequel or even being able to retrieve a record from a document database. So what does the query language look like, and what are some of the types of use cases that Pelosi's uniquely well-suited for being able to solve given the way that the data is represented and stored so clear language right now, we have a light with peak L, which I think is just a query language, which is. A very simple query languages typical examples would be something like cotton the exact spelling, but you write things like, you know, ro equals five and that selects everything that has row five sad. And then we have unions, and intersects and exclusive or in and common represent common interactions like that available. I got some work going on for mapping some SQL queries into corresponding queries. Just because there's a lot of us who L around the kind of thing that I think this tends to get used for is cases where you have. Fairly large volumes of data, and you have you know in advance. What questions you're likely to ask? So, you know, things like has an active account, or, you know, signed up since nineteen ninety six or signed up in a given year or has purchased this particular product, and you want to do combinations of these. And you know, if you look at something like the has purchased this particular product in typical database, that's probably joins and you're probably looking into or three tables and the use case with Pelosi the way my approach that is you call product ID's rose, and you store a bit with the column it to you know, user ideas, the column and the row product is the row, and you store that bid. And then if you want to check users who have purchased. This product. You've just ask about that row. And you get back all the homes the match it. And of course, this is MRs verse farce representation, typically, his you might have many hollow or many rose in which only a few bits are set, but we aren't storing the zeros effectively for most of that were only storing of ERI small number of bits. So we can actually do that reasonably efficient and one of the other contexts where I've often heard the term bit map used is with images particularly static images. Either PNG's J pegs, and I'm wondering if there is any use case where it would make sense for loading image data into Pelosi to be able to do some sort of image analysis. Algorithm on the bit map as it's represented in Pelosi being translated from one of those static images. I I'm not sure it wouldn't seem as I don't think that would probably be a great fit. Because typically though, we talk about bit map images. They're almost always multiple bits per pixel of there is an interesting historical reference there. There's a computer Kobe Amiga nineties that actually used a similar representation in memory that if you had a forbidden image. You didn't have four consecutive bits for a pixel you have four bit planes in each bit plane was just one of those forbids for all the pixels at once. And this was a similar structure, and it had some performance advantages in some performance disadvantages overall. I think it is not great for visual data, just because you're much more likely want to know, which what the pixel value of pig. Is than look at the high red bit of all the pixels be nice for sticking and as far as the actual data storage in Pelosi. I know that in the documentation it mentions that it's not necessarily built to be a primary source of record. And that you would usually low data into Pelosi from either another data source in bulk or consume from a streaming engine such as Kafka where you have the data being split into two streams where one is going to your primary storage layer and one is going into Pelosi for further analysis, someone if you can just talk about further through what a typical workflow is for being able to obtain analyze data in Pelosi, and what the overall life cycle of that information would would tend to be I think those are the basic forms. If obviously the other really common one is that you combine those that you already have some data. So you want to read in all that data and add data has comes in. So for imports, we have somewhat different logic. Because if you're when you're screaming in new biz generally want to have nice, high reliability data rights, you want laws of every bit as it's written. So the get out of saying, whereas when you're importing few billion hits if you do the full flesh to destroy every bit will not succeed important ball. It will never happen. So we have somewhat some support for faster Hoke imports of large locks data. And we're always looking at that for possible performance enhancements because that is absolutely one of the slowest parts of the process of getting spun up think is just if you have many gigabytes data getting it migrated can be slowish this led to one of my favorite small side projects here, which is built a tool called mansion, which is used to create fake databases. The. Etymology of the name is imagine you have database with a billion users. So I want mates where I write up a description of a database with a billion users and a third of the bits are set in these rose, or whatever and pointed a server and have a database. This is somewhat useful for benchmarking. The ingest process is also useful for setting demos, and as far as being able to model the data as it's coming from a either a relational source or some sort of structured flat files, what is the interface look like, and how would you go about structuring the data model in Pelosi to ensure that you're able to perform the types of analysis that you're looking to do on the data as it's coming in. So the the major thing is figuring out what rose should be plan. What your calls should be? You know, it's is easy to say. Well, calls the users or something like that. But. When you're recording recording data, close tends to favour things that can be expressed as yes or no question. The more something like eight range values, the less likely is that this this will work as well. So we do support ranges for his weather necessary. But as one example, I think we had a case where the likely default format that just came to mind and out how a field where the rove Allieu the only row that would be set would be the same as that. How long values who's sort of the diagonal row line ones? And that that was fairly inefficient because you know, for a billion records that do not have a billion separate source files each with one bid, and that's not the most efficient usage. And that case you it's possible just not score the data. So the kind of thing you want to look. For is what are the actual questions to ask? Because you know, if you like say say, you have you know, you're looking at package database, and you're looking for number of packages that import package and that that's a number. So you might record it as a range in store, this range of values the highest might be a few thousand. So you need ten or twenty bits of storage per package to represent the number of packages referred to. Well, let's see look at your actual workflow only senior ever checking his weather the number of packages greater zero. Or will you don't need score the number you need to store. The is it greater zero. If you do that, then you're in one of the cases where Pelosi will perform well. Because that's the kind of. Yes, no question that the the next is good for and another when I was looking at the documents. Station. It mentioned that you need to construct the index sets up front, and that they can't be modified after the fact so I'm wondering how that would play into your decision making of doing the upfront modeling. And if there are any other types of decisions that need to be made early on in the process that could have ramifications later on as far as what types of analysis, you can perform I feel like you, of course, changes just the changing require you to do a lot of Rian jesting or facing one thing. I would tend to recommend his help. Maybe Billy sample set with a subset of the data. So it doesn't take too long, and he'll some of the sample varies just walking through the process and seeing what happens and whether you are able to express the right queries. The his just because the data structure is unfamiliar. It isn't quite life, the relational databases tend to work is easy to be unsure of what will work out. Well, or what you're going to be gaining from it. I think there's a tendency for people coming from structure databases to think more in terms of named columns, and or and even if you switch Collin rose thinking in terms of named things and values for them rather than yes. Or no questions out. Of course, there's the downs the danger that if you go too far with that. And you just in code the question you have right now, if you have a new question later, you may not have a way to answer it so thinking. About why you want store today to what need to know about it? And that's which is always the thing gate maces, but Hasley more. So when you reducing things to yes, no questions, and are there any additional complexities or considerations that need to go into handling highly dimensional data, and how that's represented and stored or any difficulties of finding appropriately high dimensional data in structured file sort of in the wild. Imagine that things like HD five that would lead to some of these highly dimensional data types that is definitely going to be hard. We've got is essentially the ability to have yields with rose, and they can have a lot of rose. I would say in some cases might make sense to just Vert higher dimensions to call numbers. Roll numbers. Treat them as you know, if you have a thousand five thousand five thousand thing. It's just, you know, have the first layer use columns want zero thousand rose zero through thousand and then the next slice would get one through earth thousand one from two thousand and so on, but that will not scale up to very large mentions at which point I think you want to try to find something underlying this that describes what looking at in different terms lake. I relate with we've got the genome example, that's not highly dimensional case where you're replacing these very large strings of ACT g with a yes, or no has this gene cresent, western so Iro's or columns ending the ten questions. Asking would be numbered known genes. That we are tracking the presence out of and is it possible for a bit map in Pelosi to have a reference to another bit map to be able to possibly construct some of these dimensional matrices sort of it's not there is not currently regrets support for it. You can have arbitrary values in the field. And they could for instance, be column numbers from another thing hurt. We don't have frequent tools for directly making queries lake that. But if you if you get back data from one query, you can use it to build another. And that is the thing we are looking at and we have some we have some experimental things that we done in the tree as an experiment to not yet merged or committee. His quite what we want? But it is to make it easier to do queries. The do that thing. And yet that is a way to approach. The dimensionality and also simplifies some queries the currently would require a fair amount of back and forth traffic and as far as your experience of working on the palooza project. What are some of the most interesting or challenging aspects or lessons learned that you have encountered in the process? I think my favorite is probably going to have to be time message now. I bet I could make faster. I mentioned I think factor one speed up in the code really pleased with that until I realized that what I'd done was suppressed the operation lawn. Right. So basically, I was being passed because I wasn't actually writing the data to disk. So that that was a good reminder of how easy it is to be overconfident in performance tuning. I think that in general I've been doing a lot of focus on benchmarking performance tuning is that's a personal interest. And it's been very interesting because there are frequently very unexpected opportunities for performance improvements that don't always seem like they're going to be significant. And it's this great example of the general performance rule that you really need to profile things to know what what you're doing. Or what you want to do? And where to focus your time. It's been very interesting code work on and you know, as with any high performance code. There's a lot of interesting special cases, for instance, if you're comparing contents of two arrays, and they're both sorted raising. Just wanna see how many items they have in common. It turns out that it matters quite a bit. Whether you are interesting over the longer array and than the shorter one or the shorter one of the longer one. And what are some of the other overall strategies that Pelosi uses to be able to achieve the types of performance that it is aiming for and what are some of the current bottlenecks trying to work through? I think large part of it is we are pretty focused on what you can actually have in memory. So once the system is up it will out the day that memory, it doesn't currently support picking things off the disk in that acquires a fair amount of work on making the in memory representation efficient. We use a modified variant of the roaring bit nap format. The distinction being that ours handle sixty four bit ranges instead of just their into ranges. But that lets us fit many many gigabytes of theoretical gigabytes zeros and ones into much smaller amounts of meme. Mary. So the biggest issue is trying to make sure the data fits, and that's one of the reasons that we have support for Scharping in clustering, he's on because at some point you just plain have more data than you have memory the other end the other bottlenecks. I think are mostly at the level of just performance of specific cases where access patterns are inefficient. And you if you're when you're. When you're injecting values the access patterns to make factor of ten difference in speed. So being able to arrange to produce the data in a sorted order. For instance, can make a huge difference in how quickly gets written, and we're working on some improvements to that. Because we found places where I think there's there's some good opportunities for making it faster. And we were having an issue that if you had a very sparse state of you have a lot of it. We were having memory issues, and we've been working on reducing memory usage in that case Prec, currently, and I know that the primary language actually, I think the only language of implementation for Pelosi is actually in go. So I don't know if you have any thoughts as to the benefits and trade offs that that provides of having that be the implementation target, and I know that you said that you're still fairly recent too. The project, but given the context of the do have if there are any architectural decisions that you think that you would make differently if he were to start the whole project over today doesn't question goes reasonable good choice. I think I'm sure we get several percent faster. Maybe a a fair bit faster working see. But I also don't think it'd be done yet. I'm a reasonably experienced see programmer, and I find it useful. Sometimes to not have to do quite as much of that. But we are definitely seeing some cost to the garbage collector and the allocation so a lot of the performance optimization opportunities are basically finding the cases where it really is worth the extra time to outsmart goes garbage collector of it and bypass some of what it would otherwise do for allegations. And that that can make a very large difference in performance overall. It's been. A fairly good fit. It's it's expressive. But it does allow you to get down to the bit level right code that. Where you have a pretty good idea. Exactly. What will happen? We don't have any in line. We don't have any assembly code in there yet. But we might some day for a few of the particularly expensive loops or whatever. But must time the primary expenses are just the sheer amount of data there is work on and at that point. It's not a bad fit at all the language. Architecturally? I think I'm pretty happy with it. It it basically makes sense. And as far as any experience that you have of working with end users of Pelosi. What have you found to be some of the common points of confusion or difficulty that they encounter when trying to get something up and running and start using it for their own purposes or also any sort of common feedback that you hear on the open source repository as far as issues that people encounter with either trying to use or contribute to the source. I would say that holiday Collins versus rose thing is the issue. Not sure anything else. Even I feel like if we had a chart of how many of them we get that might be over fifty percent of all us Jains, certainly was who ain't contagious me. The next most common thing, I has blasting out is just performance at that's just because the first thing you do with the. System is trying to get all your data into it. And then you have to experiment with the injust options, and there's relatively straightforward things that work by our sincere, V files or whatever. But which don't always get the s performance much dating. How that can be worth. It can be worth of time is if you're an issue related injustice, take six hours run as you can spend three hours making it faster. Maybe a good use of time. And as far as that overall ingestion workflow, do you have any sense as to the relation of the source on disk size versus the representation in Pelosi after it's been converted to that that map format that will depend a lot on the specific data. Just because it depends on how much data you're pressing out of it. If you're starting with something where the source has a column. The contains the first paragraph of people savoring awful and the representation closest to have a row set for is their favorite album movie. Dick, you're gonna be saving a lot of is space, actually, possibly not. I think the first sense of Monday's Risher. But if you're if you've gone data, that's basically like already, and you're converting it into Pelosi, you generally, see some some effective, compression because the roaring at format is very efficient for a whole lot of the likeliest cases. I don't have exact numbers. But I know that when I was doing tests databases. I was putting gigabytes and gigabytes data into tables, and it was not taking gigabytes space on this. It's quite efficient for a lot of cases. It's not quite accurate that you can sort of approximate by pretending this just story the ones. And as far as that ingestion does Pelosi actually store the ingested data on disk, or does it just par it? Well, it's flowing in and then just cap the rest of it to Deb knoll after it's translated the representation into the bit map format that you're storing in Palo just yeah. We're just doing the nap form of whatever we're asked to store. So if there's other data going into determining it me. We'll see see that so Frincis if you've got it say the fairly typical row in Holland haste, where you're setting each gets a role in home tells you wearing to quit the one bit. We get in a stream of hairs of sixty four bit numbers and producing Bigalow bits from them. So it's it's a lot. You know, if you sent in a series of payers like zero zero one zero two zero it's a sixty five thirty five zero you send in that. To sixteenth set of pairs. And what we actually store on. This is a run container holding the values from zero to sixty five thirty five and that's thirty two bits of data. Plus a little over since it's small, and what are some of the types of use cases that Pelosi is not well suited for where you would recommend alternative to where you'd recommend an on where you would recommend an alternative tool or architecture sprays. Strings with not be strong. I think strings are now strong owned heavily relation joint. Heavy things have typical relational database are likely to be a perfect about in some cases. It's it. It close. It will be good at a case where you're looking up a fact about one table, it's something out of another because that's nothing easily represents bit. If you want to actually combine the data from the tables and Bill results that is something where lows doesn't even really have a starting point for it. And that something where that's probably half the want to use a database for below strength. That would be you use it to get a list of the ID's in your first table that we're going to doing all these squares on and it can be really good for that. But then for the actual relational database workload. It's not really for useful. It's it is just the index face. And is there a sort of general guideline as far as the relative scale of data that you would want to be at before you would bother looking to Pelosi. For exceleron some of your analysis on it or do you find that? It's even useful at the you know, tens or dozens of gigabytes scale, I would say in terms of timing. If determination of what your daily you want to look at is taking more than a few milliseconds is hospital. That is starts being useful to have a specialized in this. It's so I'm not sure how much data that is. It does depend on. What your existing is like your this base? His doing if you haven't put indexes on regulating base. I at least try their indexes. I just just in case that already salsa problem. With those indexes are not fast enough worth you to things like combining those next few slow. That's where we start having a really Tilleke offer in making those Aries faster and the other and also some kinds of. Aggregation of ADA or is said in right? Which entries in this health? Most bits were whatever with the, you know, projects that import other projects which projects are imported by the most other projects is something that something like Pelosi will handle very well in general, and a lot of databases to do that they're going to be doing, you know, count group by and all these aggregate operations, and they're actually going to be reading every row in the table or hitting the next fifty times or something. And who knows who will probably up responded me. So that's that stuff ministry and before I ask the last question. I'm curious if you know where the name choice came from. Oh, yeah. So well, as you know, slots are famous for being fast closes scientific name for sloth. That's why our Twitter handles. And if you look the logo is actually the stylized sloth it took me allows pot. Facet that we really think that's law when I was googling about it a little bit. I came to the Wikipedia entry about the scientific term for Pelosi rather amused. We try to how since humor about things, and I just I really liked the slot as everyone else Lhasa. They're actually quite good swimmer. Surprisingly, I did not know that. And so what do you have planned for the future of Pelosi in terms of performance improvements or feature additions or maybe a type of planned integration with other storage systems to maybe automatically be able to create these indices as the data's being ingested into the primary storage layer forms improvements. The most media thing is I have salute Hawaii is about the way we'd just of the value range things the representing injuries as serious bit naps. I have some ideas on that. We just did a performance improvement that reduce memory usage cases with sparse data. I think for one of the workless relooking at went from about seventy gigabytes of memory to about thirty two bytes memory or thereabouts, which I was pretty pleased with for the injust thing. I mean, we definitely have this eight difficulties that people on into how do you figure out what he ingests how you integrate with other systems and the plan as amber standing is to start working on building a managed service for that kind of thing because this sign where the expertise developed from working on to solving that problem for one case really translates well to the next pace. So if everyone wants to do it house to do all that running from scratch, and the next person was long they have to do it. All this a lot of people spending a lot of times doubling. Might more efficient to have some expertise being shared and where certain building a front end on that to help achieve some. And are there any other aspects of Pelosi or bit map into seas? Or the types of analyses that you support that we did discuss yet. You think we should cover before we close out the show? I can't say of any neatly, but the guts really cool blog posts with interesting pictures of and, you know, graphs of things that we worked on an are really religious Lapatin. My favorite is congenial Haas in one probably well for anybody who wants to get in touch with you or follow along with the work that you're doing Peluso will have you had your preferred contact information to the show notes. And as a final question, I'd just like to get your perspective on what you see is being the biggest gap in the tooling or technology. That's available for data management today. That has really I think there's so much data in so many ways to store data, and we all have databases, but I think just about every programmer, I know has at least once implemented a flat filed a sore because overhead of warning to use SQL was high and they were hurry. And I really feel like we need to be. Better at telling people that data storage is a thing that we have good tools for this that I meet so many fellers who don't know about database indexes, and I've seen people develop, you know, to hashing layers on top of something because they didn't know they put an index on a honesty well database, and I think I feel like there's a lot of opportunities for education here because it turns out all computers due process data, and knowing what you can do with Dana in that you can do things at all with data would I think help all of us a lot. I can definitely second that sentiment of wanting to ensure that developers have a good handle on what's available to them for being able to maintain the data that they're working within their applications. Well, thank you very much for taking the time today to join me and discuss the work the been doing with Pelosi stuff, very interesting project and a little bit of a different mind model little bit of a different. Mental model for being able to think about storing and analyzing data. So I appreciate your insights. And I appreciate the work that you're doing on Pelosi. And I hope you enjoy the rest of your day. It was very interesting.

Pelosi Barclays Peluso cbs programmer Leno Alexia Tobias Macy Riley media partner Laos Toronto
Azu Prince Onicha talks Willian Leaving Chelsea, Prilo appointed manager of Juventus

Breakfast Connect

01:30 min | 4 months ago

Azu Prince Onicha talks Willian Leaving Chelsea, Prilo appointed manager of Juventus

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Waterfall Method, If It Ain't Broke, Don't Fix It and Junior Developers - Part 4 - 101

Membership Sites & Online Courses, Create, Sell & Deliver Digital Content from SubscribeMe.fm

21:51 min | Last month

Waterfall Method, If It Ain't Broke, Don't Fix It and Junior Developers - Part 4 - 101

"Waterfall, method it ain't broke don't fix it and junior programmer the last and final part four of the series seventeen things, entrepreneurs and digital creators like you can learn from a programmer. Who and welcome to subscribe me Dot FM where I talk about how to create sell and deliver digital content creating membership sites and online courses. Subscription based products building an audience digital marketing. What press creating audio video reports, kindle books, and podcasts and tools, tactics, and tips that you can use to create a long-term profitable online business. I'm Debbie Jacob I'm the CO founder and co-developer off digital access pass dot com fondly known as Depp the very best membership platform. For purpose, I'm also a fulltime entrepreneur business coach seven time author Speaker podcast Sir Digital Marketer, and an amateur ventriloquist. Junior programmer mentality calling somebody at junior programmer is almost like an insult like calling somebody a Newbie or a new job or a rookie not exactly glowing praise. I can say that because I was once a junior programmer myself in my. Previous life as a programmer It's basically saying, yeah, of course I know you're new to the stuff and that's why you're making these dumb mistakes right and one of the mistakes junior programmer snake. Is that as soon as they've been given a project or task, they're so eager to get started and even more eager to tell their boss that they're done that they end up taking a whole bunch of guts that they are not supposed to take. They'll not think through the process they will not think about the design how they're code could affect or influence other parts of their system. The database going to look like is. That a front end and how does it work with the back in what technologies you need to use? Is it a web APP or is it like a back and web service or is it a mobile APP and how that affects the user interface and so on and they will basically rushed to say, I'm done because they want to impress the boss because they're of course, a junior programmer they haven't done this before much. So that means they probably didn't test it correctly and they probably didn't tested with enough. Use cases are test scenarios, right? Like on a website. If you're feeling are the long farm, you have to test for cases like what happens if somebody forgets to enter their physical address mailing address in the form what happens if they're a four number, they enter only five digits are what if they enter alphabets for phone or for sex solutions acuity and so on you have to test for a large number of cases and in the. Tech World, we also call a dummy proofing because if you're able to break it then unique, you can fix it right you have to test for a whole bunch of scenarios. So the same way when you're trying to launch a new course, it could be something as simple as you know, adding a new module to an existing course are trying to figure out chapters for your book, which could then turn into course and maybe that turns into. An audiobook and maybe kindle book, and maybe that leads to lead magnet to build your list. It really helps to think through the entire process I before starting anything. So you can actually start by writing down some bullet points right I. Call it start with the last thing i. so you could try to create a sales pitch for whatever product you're creating. There's a suffer product or plug in or a book or a course because what that. Does is it makes you think about all the benefits and features what would the sails copy? How would I convince somebody to buy what? What are the pluses what, what would I highlight here and what the pricing table water be the offer, and in pricing table will you have multiple columns? Will you have like silver gold platinum like multiple memberships there'd be different versions of the same thing. So you'd be Book Plus Digital or Book Plus Digital. Plus Free Call. So whatever the soup just putting everything down and looking at it from a sales perspective doesn't you don't have to create an actual sale speech who have to use a designer plug in like try architect, which is what I recommend. You can just to create a sales pitch in word or word processing program us what will the line items for each of those memberships say what will gold have? That is more than. Silver and waddled platinum have more off than gold. So you just need to be able to look ahead and think had ten steps and you may not be able to see all the steps but you have to start there. Right you you have to try. It's almost like a game of chess. You can just blindly play the move that's that the first move you see in right in front of you. So you have to think about what? Is the end goal here what is the funnel? What are you trying to achieve? Who is the target audience for distinct right and is this thing even monetize -able just because you know you just woke up and had an idea doesn't mean it's monetize. -able. So you have to think about WHO's audience is it monitors able a hall monitor as well as if you are you going to make like fifty bucks a month or do you want. To make I on off like hundred thousand dollars a year and quit your day job. What does the end goal? Is there an audience for this and will they pay for it because there might be an audience for a lot of things but it doesn't mean they're going to part with their money have talked about this on previous episodes of my podcast twenty years I created a e book for about baby names, Indian baby names, and the. Way To had off, it's time and people didn't even have credit cards back then in India and you two dollars I was charging to ninety nine dollars ninety nine cents at one point and even that when translated to Indian rupee see was a lot of money back then and people were not gonNa pay that much for me book they'll. Go to the store and buy a like a physical book for was selling for much cheaper sandy where you have to think through all those things you have an audience and are they passionate about it? How much will they pay for it? Will they pay for it? Is there a product market fit and most importantly if there's an audience, do know how to reach the audience and do can you re stem repeatedly? Referred can just restored once then is not a good proposition, right? You have to be able to repeat and you have to build a list, and so you have to think to the funnel so many questions to ask, and I actually talk about all of this in my course one thousand and one true fans small audience big impact, how to become a respected trusted and beloved expert and build your tribe of one thousand fans. Even, if you're starting with an audience of zero followers, zero fans zero list, zero customers yes. I'm the master at long titles and you can check it out at one zero zero one true fans dot com that's one thousand and one true fans dot com that is a play on the concept created by Kevin Kelly of one thousand, two fence and he doesn't go into you know it was a many years ago he doesn't. Really talk about how to do it. So I talk about the implementation aspect and I have adapted it for today's age of social media on different platforms and how you can. Do multiplatform marketing repurposing, and all that stuff. So basically, you need to be able to brainstorm ideas and come up with the bland before you write the first line of code or the first chapter of your book or the first. Line of your podcast or video whatever it is, and I. wholeheartedly believe that a mind map is the single greatest brainstorming tool ever created guess what I have a course about that too, and it's called brainstorming bad as the APP. So freaking lutely fastest way to brainstorm and churn out ideas for the next thirty, three years and both these courses are part of my digital creators Academy at Subscribe, Me Dart FM Slash Academy. So check it out when you get a chance. So the takeaway is look ahead and think it through and brainstorm and. Make land before diving right in obviously you don't want to get hung up too much and a analysis paralysis all the stuff on I'm a big proponent of speed and execution on all that. But you can still do the planning in pieces and phases. You don't have to map holding out, but you can at least start and you don't just blindly start executing the first line of code writing the first chapter without any idea what your end goal is. So don't start writing code five minutes after you're given a programming task like a junior programmer. Next the waterfall method I can't even begin to tell you how many top-shelf marketers and entrepreneurs take three months, six months year or even more creating a massive bital product like a plug in our a SASS product. SAZ means software as a service are some others as a service product and they do a big grand announcement that it's ready and there are no takers for it and they cannot sell diss against you and monstrosity that have created. You know obviously, these guys have lots of guys and girls. Have, lots of audience lots of people on their email and social media platforms. So yes, they do make a bunch of sales, but it's almost never enough to break even on their initial development initial investment in their developers and programmers, project managers and servers and technology and leave alone making a profit to paid themselves are to keep paying their team and I have seen a lot of marketers and small startups go out of business within one to two years because they used a strategy called the waterfall method. Here's how the waterfall method works in the world of technology just to introduction are at least here's how it used to our because not many people use it anymore because it sucks. So I some person are a team of people comes up with a bunch of random ideas on what they need done for their business and this person is usually refer to this person or. Group, is an effort to as a client and then a bunch of other people come in and translate that into actual technological requirements, and then a bunch of programmers or developers are are assigned to it, and then they go off and work for weeks or even months together at a time occasionally touching base with the quote Unquote Klein, a bunch of time later come. Back and they show a demo this I mean this is exactly how we used to work back when I worked in the corporate world back in early two thousands they come back and they'll give the client a demo and you'll see a lot of red faces in that meeting because usually by the time is to lit late for feedback and you the amount of progress. They have made, which may not be you know more than twenty, five percent or fifty percent because a lot of the basic stuff in the infrastructure is already set in stone because you can't change you can't say, I'm GONNA develop all this on say Google cloud and then six months later never mind we'll just switched straight over his it's not that simple right it's not Flipping a switch or if you develop in. HP You can't just switch to Java. You literally have to read every single line of code. So a lot of decisions are probably too hard to backup and redoing any part of it means hundreds away sorta ourself development and testing. So usually those things cascade out of control, and all of this is usually because the client gets feedback only after initial development stage because everything in the waterfall meant that everything is divided into rigid phases. So one phase doesn't overlap the other. The requirement phase has just requirement and development is development testing testing, and then feedback. Like too rigid and without regular quick feedback, it's really hard to manage any project even the smaller ones. The same thing applies to you as digital marketer and content creator as well. You cannot create a long sequence of steps that are to be candid, alternate, rigid, and Donna sequence for long duration of time without quick and regular feedback from the stakeholders and that could be your applied. It could be your podcast listeners are your peer spark podcasters, other marketers in your niche somebody from your inner circle and a typical example of how waterfall method is. Used in the real world is when somebody launch us a new podcast this is so typical of a lot of new podcast that are launched because there's a lot of bad advice out there when it comes to starting a podcast and one of the most typical bad advice that one usually gets in launching a pot gas is they'll tell you you should start you should launch your podcast with eight or ten or fifteen episodes right out of the gate eight is usually the number that's most popular for whatever reason. Now obviously, it sounds very logical if. You listen to it because if you launch a podcast with one episode and hundred people download it, that means you're getting a hundred downloads, which is like the magical currency of podcasting. It's all about the downloads and logic would say launch a podcast with eight episodes and hundred people download dose episodes. Now getting eight hundred downloads. So eight times the downloads on the day of the launch, right that means you'll, you'll go to the top of the charts and this, and that I won't go into all the details, all the different myths and nonsense surrounding podcasting. Bad Advice but actually that it doesn't work like that if you have ever subscribed to a podcast that has a hundred episodes, then guess what only the latest episode will get downloaded. It doesn't matter. The podcast already has hundred or five hundred or five thousand episodes already published or even if it's just to only the latest episode getting downloaded because the default setting off almost every single podcast APP there's Out there. So usually when somebody subscribes to your podcast by default latest one gets downloaded, which means you could have eight episodes at launch still only one download when somebody subscribes it, and if they listen to it and if they like it and if they want to keep listening, then they'll subscribe and then they have to physically go to their podcast APP and say download the the back Cadillac they don't. Do that even if this subscribe are even the list one episode, you're still getting new on download and here's the problem with this waterfall method because a lot of people made the mistake of hoarding a lot of these recordings and they're waiting for them to rating to blast them all out on the day of the launch like some net flicks, the what had really happened sis by the time they. Release it all of them together and somebody gets to listen to it and offer them feedback. Somebody Mitt tell you that some parts of the audio is bad. Maybe choice too loud or harsh are totally relevant. Maybe the audio levels are not good it that it should be mono in sort of stereo because they don't want to hear you in one year and the guest in another year. That's very very. Annoying you find out that there are a lot of things you could have done better. But guess what you already have finished your according for eight episodes on your everything is launched the artwork everything being blasted out into social media whatever you have set up, and now if you realize that this a bunch of things that need to be fixed, you can't because now you. have to Redo all episodes if you're already launched them to pull them out, you have to take them out of your feet and which means anybody who has subscribed if they. If you release them again, they'll get a whole bunch of new episodes. So the bottom line is you have to follow what is called as the agile model, which is opposite of the waterfall method. Which is quick feedback at the very minimum. That's what I'll say right you do things you get feedback you a feedback loop is shorter. You take the feedback, improve it, and you trust it and tweak and make it better and get some feedback with the the whole feedback loop is much shorter than before and when it comes podcast so things you could do Charles launching. With eight episodes is I commend lunching with one episode and even then I don't recommend launching it right away. As soon as you finish the recording, listen back to it and then see how it sounds mixture. The sound is okay. Senator a couple of people on asked him about the sound not about the content right because the podcasts are so many review your podcast. May Not have any knowledge in your niche and don't go into a bunch of podcasting groups and start blasting your episode because that's the fastest way to get kicked out of a group because you don't want to spam. So you ask for some feedback message a bunch of people on social people you know, hey, let me know what it sounds like. What do you think about the content aboard the structure you can. Ask feedback from different groups will give you different feedback about different parts of your episode so that all those things are a gile computing and that's one of the things you take away from this. Don't do waterfall be agile. So my my friend Dave Jackson from the School of Gassing says, podcasting is not a statue but a recipe. So here's what I would add to that. If I were learning to make chicken fried rice for the first time, DJ actually happened like a couple of years ago to me. Would you just straight away Kamaruddin out and cook like a massive amount of chicken fried rice enough for ten people to last for like three days of course, not you're GONNA make a small amount in the beginning maybe for one or two people that way if screw up, then all of that food is not going to go to waste. So the first time you cook a new dish, you just make a small serving see how it comes out. You taste it, you tweak it and you make a list of everything. You missed and things that you could have done better than the next time you make a little bit more of it, and then you apply all the previous learnings and make a better dish and you try to get better each time. The same thing applies to everything in life brothers for creating podcasts or cooking or creating a course. You don't try to. You can't run a marathon by taking off like it's a sprint and that is why you cannot use the waterfall method for creating anything because the model sucks because there. There's such a long sequence long phases with our feedback built in and proper testing and tweaking and changing built in, and you end up with a massively bloated inferior product because you did not get feedback along the way and you didn't improve things along the way. Finally. A couple of more quick things if it ain't broke, don't fix it. Has Don't modify something that's currently working for the sake of just changing something because that's how you introduce new bugs sp I'm talking from a programming perspective, right? If you simply touch something that didn't have an issue, then are just trying to make something better instead of focusing on the main problems. Then that's how introduce more bugs and you create too many moving parts and you've. Tried to fix one thing at a time and you don't try to create too many moving parts at the same time, and so all of those are concepts that you can apply in digital marketing and digital content creating creation as well. Right. So when you're states testing your sales pitch conversions, you don't try to change too many things at once that makes it hard to know. which change worked or didn't work so you're I guess something like the headline right and then you'd run some traffic then. Figure out which one worked and keep that one, and then you change something else one thing and subheading. Then separately on a different time, you change the sales copy. Then you just different offers. Multiple offers try split test to offers and then take one and use that as the model, and then you change the pricing. So if you end up changing too many things at the same time, there's no. Way To know was the headline change that made it better or worse or was it the pricing you never know? So I also have another one to add to this list a don't touch. It's Friday but I talked about this already on my other podcast at cut to the Chase Dot FM business marketing and Takacs for entrepreneurs and digital creators. So check out that podcast cut to the CHASE START FM OUR Search for the word cut to the chase DOT FM in your favorite podcast APP and before you go, I just wanted to quickly let you know that I have recently opened up my royalty based coaching program where you don't pay me to coach You you get unlimited free coaching from me but you pay me a royalty from your prophets once I help you grow your business obviously, I cannot accept everybody. Into this into this program because it's a huge investment off my time that to without getting paid up front signed only taking on a very few clients right now, if you're interested, send me an email to Ravi at subscribe me Dot FM that's are a victor I at subscribe me Dot f. m. and I'll send you more details. That's it for today. Thank you so much for listening jurors and toxin.

programmer kindle India Debbie Jacob DOT FM Depp CO founder Google HP Silver Kevin Kelly Slash Academy Unquote Klein Takacs content creator Ravi
17 Things Entrepreneurs Like You Can learn from a Programmer - Part 1 - 98

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21:23 min | 4 months ago

17 Things Entrepreneurs Like You Can learn from a Programmer - Part 1 - 98

"Seventeen things entrepreneurs like you can learn from a programmer episode ninety. Eight Hello and welcome to subscribe me Fem where I talk about how to create sal and Delaware digital content, creek, membership sites and online courses subscription based products building an audience digital marketing, what press creating audio video reports kindle books and podcasts and tools, tactics and tips that you can use to create a long-term profitable online business I'm Ravi Jacob. Paul I'm the CO founder and Court of Labor of digital access past dot com fondly known as Depp. Depp the very best membership platform for what press I'm a business coach, seven-time Author Speaker Podcasts are entrepreneur, digital marketer, and also an amateur wrench. Look West. This is kind of a crossover episode where I have taken some of the greatest programming practices that are used to develop software and systems and I'm going to show you how you can apply them to. Your Own Business has an entrepreneur and digital creator. Now I have oversimplified a lot. Lot of the things lot of the programming concepts just for the sake of keeping it simple, so that I don't turn this into a complicated programmers manual because I'm not teaching program I'm just trying to bring some of those concepts of her, and show you how you can use it as a business person, so if you're a hardcore geek and a programmer like me, just know that this is not meant to teach you how to Code. Code are fully explain every single practice in terms of programming all right. Let's get right in number. One in Seventeen thinks every entrepreneur and digital creator can learn from a programmer just in time. Jit Jit is a Japanese management philosophy which forced came into existence in the early nineteen seventies in many of the Japanese manufacturing organizations, so it was first developed, and later perfected by a man called Daiichi Ohno from Toyota. I hope I didn't which that? The. Idea was to manufacture cars with minimum delays, so let me give you a very highly generalized example, if you are a car company and you're going to be manufacturing cars then if you're going to manufacture a thousand cars in a year, then you need thousand times. All of those carparks right now. Are you going to manufacturer all thousand together? Probably not. You're going to manufacture. Say about eighty cars a month right thousand by twelve. Which means you would only need enough parts to manufacture eighty three cars for the first thirty days. And by the time you approached week four of the first month, the next setup parts the Knicks. Eighty cars should start arriving, and hopefully be ready in your factory for the beginning of the next month, and then if you look at the of actual factory, arranging physical factory itself, the various machines and automation parts and everything else in such a way for maximum efficiency, so you keep related items close by so that those are working on the sparks. Don't have to move around too much waste time and energy and effort in walking from one. One location to other they have all the right tools right next to them, so the idea of minimizing waste and basically wastage of movement time material resources energy et Cetera so doing what you absolutely need to do when it absolutely needs to be done, that's just in time. Loosely defined of course now take this an apply this to other parts of Your Business. So one thing you can do is called just in time learning learning only what you need, only when you need it, so remember I said learning walk. You need knock, you want. So when you have a need, it should take higher priority over a want. Yes, I want to learn how to play the piano I want to watch the latest number one rated show on Netflix I want to read a lot of books I want to learn Harpsichord in on and learn CSS and so many other hobbies I have a lot of warrants, but you have to constantly prioritize and balance your needs over your warrants if you WanNa get anything done because we all have only twenty four hours a day and the people that usually get a lot of things done are those who prioritize their needs over there wants so the same thing applies to learning as well. Just in time, learning will help you stay focused when it comes to entrepreneurs and digital creators building your website or your online course are learning how to promote your product or services. So that means not signing up for whatever new awesome course being promoted by your favorite Guru, and their army off affiliates that means not getting distracted by learning about something that looks new and shiny and focusing only on what needs to be learned. If you need to create your online course, you should be focused on learning just the things you need to learn in order to get the things done that need to get done right now. Everything else can wait just in time learning or just in time, implementation also helps you fight SOS or Shiny Object Syndrome, which is one of the biggest things that affect the productivity of a digital creator, and that's why I started with the this item I next. Number two in things on trapeze. Creator can learn from a programmer. Beta release are like the English would say beata release. One of the things that stops a lot of us. Marketers from launching new stuff is the need to try and get everything perfectly done. Right from the get go. So in the programmers world in the ward off developing software and creating systems and SAS products. There's this concept off Beta releases, and in fact, tech companies take it even further back with Alpha releases, which is one step further away from the live version so I. You released Alpha origin, and you basically release it to your internal team, your employees and staff and your internal testing team. Then you find and fix a bunch of bugs. Then you release the Beta version and this in turn helps you get quicker. Quicker feedback by getting real users to use it, which means you find more bugs and usability issues, because one thing that real users will do a guaranteed is that they will use your product in a way that you could never imagined as a creator, so there will always be a use case that you didn't think of that. Come up during a real world testing, and then they'll also tell you what else missing. What else could be done better? What other features they may want now. Obviously, you don't implement everything. You're users you? Because sometimes they will want everything from the beginning, but as A. Somebody. WHO's creating products and services? You can't have everything right from day one, so you have to put all those things on a list. You had to prioritize items. We just important right now. which are priority one priority to and so on, and you continue the process and keep developing it, and then after it has gone to a bit of casting in the real world by real users. That's when you launch it to the world. Now imagine doing the same thing for your podcast or your online course are kindle book. People get too hung up about releasing an imperfect product I have seen podcasts hoarding three or five or eight episodes like there have been misled so many times by fake Gurus online before they have even launched their podcast, so imagine sitting on eight ten episodes, and never having released your podcast and getting anybody's feedback, and just biding your time so now imagine you record ten episodes of your podcast before you under losing one and then you finally. Finally make your podcast live with Alton episodes and quickly your listeners tell you that the sound is bad or some some editing could be done better or something to sounding weird, and even if you don't hear that from your listeners if you get reviewed by your peers, but if you do it after you have already the card, ten episodes than any flawed, they find out which is going to be a dealbreaker. No, you have basically nine Florida episodes. Sitting on your hard drive, all of which had the same issue, and now it's going to take your whole lot more work to go back in regard, those nine other episodes because the first one. was found to have a bunch of different issues that could be annoying to your listeners now instead imagine if you're just recorded and released one episode, and made it live immediately, and had it reviewed by your peers and people in your audience, just putting it out into the world getting feedback putting it on social media, linking to it from everywhere sending an email your list, Hey! I just a released my first episode podcast told me already think not imagine getting feedback right away right after one episode. Then now you can take that and cut it. Any potential issues in your next episode that you haven't yet recorded, but you are going to be recording shortly and then take the feedback from that and use that to improve your. Episode and so on, and that's how you build on the feedback little by little by releasing little by little, not by hoarding everything and doing a huge dump off your product or service without any feedback, you cannot get feedback if you keep waiting forever to make it perfect. And you can't make perfect. Are you try to make it better? We talked I getting feedback. So always remember Beta release better done than perfect. Perfect really imperfect, flawed but published. Next number three in things, every entrepreneur and digital creator can learn from a programmer. Minimum viable product MVP so MVP is a product creation technique in which a new product or service is created with just enough bare minimal features that will be instantly usable and useful to your core niche. Basically you're early adopters. Getting people to use something new is so hard that It's okay if if you actually have to pay them to use your software and and. Tested and he was some feedback. In fact, there's a website called user testing dot com which my son uses. He has signed up as a tester. My son Ron is seventeen and he. makes a bar fifty to eighty dollars a week doing taking a whole bunch of tests and these are large companies that have hired user testing dot com to get them real world, feedback and use of destiny dot com interns hires customers like my son and they pay ten dollars per test usually takes five to ten minutes per test, so he works for like. Like ten minutes ten bucks perfect pocket change to get pizza and buy shoes, or whatever choice wants, so people do actually pay people to test for them, but that's the topic of the day so getting feedback from your early adopters also helps in the future creation and development of the product because they're giving you valuable feedback that you can use to to actually. Cut Out any unnecessary features are bad, you I right from the get go instead of waiting for six months or one year and developing something that people can't use now. There's a slight overlap off this concept with the Beta release. IDEA, but Beta release is more about leasing something imperfect, but what minimum viable product is is not about releasing something that's imperfect and not waiting for him perfection, but it's more about minimalistic minimalism, basically to release something. That's minimally ready to have an immediate. Immediate impact on your court users back in two thousand and eight. When we launched digital access pass dot com. It was a MVP product. Now it was a pretty mature MVP. Product and I'm sure we have released it even earlier with fewer features, but there were some features that I was absolutely insistent on that we had to have the time of launch, and it probably delayed it by a couple of months. If I could go back and do it. Redo. It are probably. Launch earlier than have a few extra features for launch so initially when we launched, the basic features were being able to protect content. Drip content by the way you probably notice if you've been following me for a while, but I actually invented content trumping. The concept of creating content ahead of time and shipping it little by little over time. Basically scheduled content. and not scheduling emails, which will already existence our auto responders existed, but does nothing like that for content for blockposts at for wordpress, and that's why I created, and I called my invention a content responder, so we had continent tipping content production and one of the things we went a little overboard on was having an affiliate model built in where somebody using our software to sell stuff right from day one start recruiting their own affiliates, basically turned their own members and buyers into affliates. Who could then stock promoting the product our book? Book are course that they'd just block themselves so right in the welcome email itself you could insert a little shark code are march stack so that when somebody just bought you a course, or are you pedia for audiobook or whatever it is than the welcome. You could say something like hey I name. Thank you for purchasing discourse Yoursel you log in. Here's the laying blah blah blah, and then by the way, here's your personalized affiliate link. That has your personal affiliate code already embedded in it, and you can start using this right. Right away to promote the scores, and we are offering thirty percent commissions, or whatever you commission, you said it to so basically, if somebody signed up for a membership, Oughta one time product could ride away. Start promoting it, and if it's a subscription than even before their second month, subscription fees hit the credit card. They could actually earn commissions to make all of their future payments free, because if it's twenty five percent commissions than that means they have to rougher just four people, and if it's thirty three percent than they have to. To offer three people, and that pays for their own membership right, so that's why it's critical that you recruit affiliates from one of launching your own course or kindle, book or Sass Product, whatever it is, and I've talked about this in great detail on this podcast and here know the episodes episode twenty title was Binge Marketing and be list Stupa Stars how to find marketing partners and affiliates episode forty four, why you should start an affiliate program and recruit your own affiliates to promote your products and services, though spark one. Forty, five, forty, six, forty, seven. They all talk about athletes stuff, so MVP minimum why about product the concept can be extended to a lot of different things and I call it minimum viable everything, and that is one of my favorite self made Montross minimum viable audience? That's where you realize that you don't necessarily need. Millions of fans or followers Kevin Kelly's concept of one thousand two fans. Are Good enough to earn you a nice living. And I actually have an insanely course about that, too at one thousand and one to fans dot com. You don't wait till you have the following one hundred thousand people you start with zero people in the audience, and you start promoting it and you start telling people aboard people in your email as people on your social media following you start telling people about. About it and getting and giving it to people for free and getting feedback right from day one, so that's minimum liable audience than minimum viable podcast like I said earlier. You don't have to launch with eight episodes regardless of who told you that is complete BS, just one published episode, and maybe a couple in the bag. In in case you know you WANNA release one every week and you don't want to. If something suddenly comes up or you? You don't feel good enough, then you don't want to miss an episode. That's fine couple of accidents awaiting so the car tree published one, and then just go and don't wait for five thousand downloads to find a sponsor. You can find sponsor from day one. And you are your best sponsor. Promote your own products and services, and there are so many better ways to monetize your show than just donations and sponsors. I've talked about that as well in this podcast for just crawled through the past episodes and find them minimum viable channel. You don't have to wait. For One thousand subscribers are ten thousand downloads to stock modernizing again. You don't have to depend on ads for monetization. Launcher on products and services minimum viable book. An epic kindle book with thirty pages. APP helps the reader accomplish. One thing quickly is way more powerful than a fluffy three hundred page book, so this concept of minimum viable everything you can see it's heavy influence in everything I practice, preach teach especially in my course one thousand and want to fans dot, com, small audience, big impact how to become a respected trusted and beloved expert, and Build Your tribe of one thousand true fans, even if you're starting with an audience of zero followers, zero fans, zero list and zero customers, I still have a bunch of awesome concepts to color which I will do over the next couple of episodes and before you go. Did you know that I'm a business coach? I have been selling online since nineteen, ninety seven, and I have created and sold a wide range of products and services like information products, desktop software, wordpress plug INS membership sites online courses, e-books, real books kindle ebooks, audiobooks, premium podcasts, shirts, agency services. You name it a- probably sold it and wherever you are in your business johnny I can help you. Take it to the next level. Every entrepreneur and digital creators needs help. It doesn't matter. Matter if you're getting started in your journey just now, or you're well on your way. Are you feel like you're the end? And maybe you haven't reached your destination yet? And you're struggling to get to the next level. There's something some hurdle in your way, and you're able to get past it. So in spite of all the challenges that Humps, Bernard digital creator can face creating running an island business is probably among the last few. Career choice in world where people believe that they can just wing it. You know what some youtube videos listen to a few podcasts John a few facebook. Groups are online communities boom. You should be able to figure it out by yourself, right. Unfortunately that is not true. Crowd sourcing business advice is probably among the worst decisions you can make, because not only can it end up confusing you with all the different choices and answers that you're pierce may throw at you, but it can also lead you down the wrong path, making you take wrong turns which littler wrong decisions, and what's worse is, that may hurt your growth. Growth progress a lot more. He tries to backtrack and revisit your decisions and Redo. Your choices only will not be able to reverse some decisions, but you'll be forced to stick with the wrong ones, because you're way too far down the rabbit hole, so every profession needs a teacher, a guide and mentor a coach. You cannot treat it like a hobby and then expect results. Results like it's a business, and that's where a teacher trainer coach mentor like me and help so if you want to quickly, get to where you want to get to I, can help check out my coaching program by visiting subscribe. Me Dot FM Slash coaching. If you have any questions, common suspicions Dan. Send me an email to Ravi at subscribe me. Dot FM. That's are. are a Victor I at subscribe me Dot FM and please subscribe to this podcast. The shows available on Apple podcasts. Stitcher, spotify, overcast iheartradio wherever you get your podcast, just search for subscribe me DOT FM as one word in your favorite podcast APP or go to subscribe Dot FM, and on the homepage links for the different podcast APPS, and platforms, including spotify sheriffs and topsoil.

programmer MVP Ravi Jacob Depp spotify Toyota Daiichi Ohno Knicks Netflix kindle Paul Court of Labor CO founder youtube Florida facebook Alton
Episode 11 Laying Out For CRISPR

You Did What Now?

24:02 min | 1 year ago

Episode 11 Laying Out For CRISPR

"In young scientists was so preoccupied with whether or not they can start to think should be full you I do ten fingers ten toes that's all that used to not now now only seconds old the exact time 'cause of my debt already and so yes he definitely has had a job where he works at night and he is now petitioning in offering his nine anytime he had some exposure so what client what classifies it as malignant. I'm not I mean I have all sorts of freckly type moles that you no no he is an in he he experiences malignant melanoma basically every time he goes out in the certainly not malignant but what makes them what makes them malignant versus just hey this is something that happens to my skin in the sun right so if you're the malignant melanoma then the Oh my goal if you if you were had some sort of issue where every time you went in the sun you would take the risks problem is that it can eventually miss metastasized and spread to the rest of the body and so every day he basically has to look at his entire body and check himself you go outside you get a Thun Bern and within a few days you develop them and malignant melanoma developing on your skin the I I would start sleeping during the day he's where he has extreme sunlight sensitivity so that anytime he goes out in the sun he he developed mold on his body that can eventually become cancerous working tonight yeah that's exactly what this man in California has done. He suffers from an extremely rare disease the educator in scientific and not do not my goal Programmer Tech Guy Interested in science guy on fines these days well so this isn't this isn't a seventy he's not going out in Suntan in you know baby oil and going out in the sun and getting crisper that that's not what you're talking about ready to be Chris Byrd the name of science oh he's he's doing what now exactly so he's offering himself up to be Chris Byrd by way we more likely at the beach juicy people ladies in huge hats China protect themselves from the sun from all the damage that it causes but I don't know think about what would you do more yeah well people used to go to the beach and just cover themselves in baby oil so they could be getting good hand but I feel like those days are mostly gone when he came of age of nineteen he eventually got graveyard shift as a waiter denny's just so that you wouldn't have to expose themselves to any any sunlight if you know we got it we went to the pool we do all that stuff I- I tand pretty well so I'm not going to be outside for twenty minutes I don't worry about it I did get one sunburn this year so maybe I should have done it cure for eight besides just avoiding the sun at all costs and so so he has started petitioning scientists to ask him to see if they you got burned that summer did you kanter no but did I raise my chance of getting cancer you're talking about like I would have burst into like cancerous immediately it's GonNa be is this has he got cancer no he hasn't I don't think so but he feels like at some point at he's getting older I think I think he's in genetic disease it's something that he inherited it inherited it is not really a name for this disease it's so rare and there's no no l. for mold that could develop because of any sort of UV exposure and as soon as he notices them to go and get them removed now okay thirty now in key fields like it's getting worse and worse than he feels like eventually he's going to miss something and that he will get cancer yes so he has up developing cancer I mean isn't that what we're replying with sun damage this bill basically that a any any real sun exposure gives you cancer I mean that's that's within in a while now that are a little older I feel like between becoming an adult did you know working nine to five with the sun's out of them young kids but now nowadays a US to alter it can be used to take out small amounts of of DNA sequences to basically turn off a gene which we sentiment supercomputer welcome to you now a podcast where we discussed stories and science and tech they make us ask exactly that everyone thanks for listening on your host. Stephanie talked a few weeks ago about the scientists in Russia who is trying to crisper the the babies who are likely to be born death right and so in and Michael Are you a person who always on sunscreen when you go outside no no no I got I don't get it I you know this summer I got out editing the genes in human eggs yeah sure let's let's be exciting yeah so he doesn't necessarily have approval to you start to to start the experiment to actually implant thanks but he's going ahead and editing them in just in case he does get McKay The scientist is actually just deleting the this sequence that has the mutation so that the gene that causes that the problem is is basically turned off which by the way I update you days ago that that scientists is going ahead with the plan he's actually started they can Christopher his buddy if they can care it retroactively remove via yes but that's not really how it works right I mean he is however millions of cells with rain down on me it's GonNa be the big chip on my in my arm is going to pop up cancer all of a sudden because I walked out in the sun for five minutes yeah yeah I mean you carry this thing so how can you give them all that now that's a really great question because that is not how Chris Bury were crisper is an amazing technology it can be conference and just injected a crisper cocktail in to his body supposedly it was a muscle boosting crisper cocktail to get two crispy in the sun so he's going to get Chris Byrd well yes so the guy in California he read in two thousand seventeen about the bio hacker designer so you've been dealing with it since he was nine years old and he started developing all of these moles off his body and Yep not quite sure how that works or if it's legit but it's definitely something that that he was interested in display acidic genetic mutation he doesn't know exactly which mutation he has I'm sure some scientists could eventually find that out but I guess the route that so he is trying to find someone who will basically crisper that gene into his body okay good plan right war correct have you ever seen these little little tiny indestructible things yeah yes so he found something and and one of those he's going to do if he found a gene in the water bear the okay a bear hang so yeah so the California he saw that that happened he said Hey I wanna be Chris Byrd so he started he took it upon himself to try and find a gene we'll participant the volunteer child and here's this guy this guy wants to be like hey let's let's push this forward throughout all this approval just hey come on cert- an entire gene so gene is composed of thousands and thousands of DNA nucleotides together so inserting a full genus eight legged water-bearers that it's a gene that protects them from the damaging effects of radiation which is one of the reasons why they have such a long little life fan uh-huh maybe I'll be really good at basketball and that's what the skills like yeah well maybe I should mention that is that this man is not a scientist he also did and that could save him and he found a gene that he would like to have Chris Byrd into his body media leaves a bit gene his diseases he's missing gene or what they don't know exactly what conduct his his I guess his yeah they did makes you not smarter or anything but he I don't know that this guy has the qualifications to even to even entertain us even say even even have the scientists say he also I guess to think about how currently crisper it can it can tweak a few DNA letters nucleus tied at a time they can't really his moles that Christopher guy that that's what worries about getting Chris Byrd he wants to be Chris Byrd because he's worried about getting Chris Byrd in exactly not something that Christopher can do yet although we did have a report yesterday of an of a crisper upgrade that might actually all right and this is what was basically the same thing as he needs to have a willing he's going to have to have a willing participant though in this case I guess it'll be a parental off before you're able to insert entire genes and not to mention I mean we don't know how what effect if you take some and a DNA sequence of forty four letters long and delete something as big as eighty letters long so it's still why it's a long way well okay you found is interested information I'll take that hypothesis to the next step I don't even think is Pappasito's is based on solid science so yeah I mean he I mean I I get I get the desire and shore you WanNa be the Guinea pig but this just seemed like snake oil on this thing and a writing app so you could just tell the gene find find X. replaced with y Yeah I got you the larger the secret or delete short DNA sequences so not gene yet but definitely an upgrade from what the original crisper the cath nine protein is able to do and so yeah so this is there actually one closer to the ideal form gene editing which would kind of work like a find and replace come in he failed in genetic engineering kit and is that the guy that just like just randomly starts putting stuff in his arm because when he was at a biotechnology then good amount of time in his twenty in prison for LSD shift distribution so that's a good way to stay out of the sun by the white prison have forty six chromosomes total and if you have forty seven chromosomes or if you have forty five chromosomes then you've got a pretty big issue lord of of gene that allows for that protect UV radiation from a tar grade water bear you insert that in would have from injecting yourself with this with gene anytime you have extra DNA it usually causes a problem right though we're supposed okay yeah so I'm I'm super skeptical skeptical than that if he has any not going to prison or selling a prerequisite into every cell of your body because I thought it would have to work at this point as a full human being you can't crisper an egg is he gonna cut himself off completely is going to like take vitamin D get around it like capsules or is he just is he gonNA kill himself because he can't get any her crisper him and see if they could they could cure his genetic disease right I wonder if you've even could from a legal standpoint sign away that she got the less you have to worry about false positives like loops I accidentally also edited the gene for my I guess there's a lot of similar sequences in there guys don't get communicated properly so this is definitely something that has to be studied but he's willing to find the paperwork though that anyone who wants to can crisper some sort of started right so you know just giving yourself extra DNA is always a good thing things they get crosswired messages Maria point like you can't sign away something don't understand the history some I mean he he he doesn't he stands that vollers that he knows that that this is that he would be taking a huge risk to basically I mean he he he feels like at some point this disease will gain Kinda I guess but then you know the concern going forward from there as we we need the Sun the sun is sort of important like without the sun there would be no human the nutrients that he needs from the sun now because objectives this if it were to work which you know yeah I mean we don't know what other we don't know what other ramifications essentially the role of the genetic dice will come up snake eyes and if I die he says he also believes that becoming a human guinea pig would advance science right you have to you have to have it propagated in some manner but I guess you talk and find replace it you'll loubet enough eventually what hit them all I'm not really sure what the deliver I mean you only have to target the come do what you want to me I'll be getting big well the guy in Russia here already has parental approval you're talking about the the guy that wants that right so so the house aside where he founded Jean that he doesn't have or well gee what does he turn on two hundred one off I I don't this is getting going to do to him he said I'm trying to think of a good analog and failing but like he he's not what he's requesting is not necessarily yeah the show this is great I love this plan this is a great plan is well thought out for sure he hasn't although he has all the information and he knows what the Da- I so basically giving his body over to science but before he passed away I guess I get it I'm like I said I'd still he still seems to expect wearing red shirts and he had he makes great he's always got these redshirts is regulated color red well that guy that guy's really good at basketball he wears the color red so if I were the color ride understanding the I think there's going to be a disconnect between what the signs will ultimately if they were to accept is deal would ultimately want to do that him to test crisper on this versus what he would expect like I feel like he's going into thinking that this is a one in a million shot but I'll give him up to him and it he will die from some sort of melanoma that that the sun causes to his body his quote was I just know that Eli I guess but the easy expecting something well his name is Mel car I'm butcher this emphathize Malcolm somebody's nobody said he just said it's going to I don't know the guy caught it does this if you have a professional athlete and you see this guy this guy really always the s right I don't know I mean he's it's his body but I guess I don't I don't think he's really and what they're going to do to him the understanding of what what he's asking for and what they would ultimately do to him like can you sign away just carp blondes do whatever you want to my body stop because there are scientists out there that will do and there are people out there that are like oh just injected into my arm my muscles are also go may and like we gotta figure this well just throw some jeans and my body what happens so yeah we need to come up where as a society rules guidelines regulations protocols you come up with a universal like United Nations protocol there are still a handful of nations that aren't in the United Nations and the steel scientists that will go to I can't even I feel I like he doesn't have an understanding of what he's asking so what he's what he's signing I mean I guess you could say I'm real English to my body to you but you can't that's basically talked about the death guy and crisper babies and there is this stuff is going to advance for this guy is hardly the only person that's going to be yeah I mean it's I get that at the noble cause but he wants to try to advance science and he's okay with using he thought he but I mean I think scientists and very right so at least not until we you know somebody overthrows that regime and makes it nicer been nicer yeah so in bow down a bit they therapy might actually kill him any of this understand there's understand the risks but I don't know that he's understands what we need to hold to some sort of ethical question of not doing any harm you're okay yeah so so we talked about this a little bit the body over to science for that one shot to to survive longer and the scientists thinking yeah you're GonNa die anyway we're going to do what we think advances crisper the best I know a nation that's not in the United Nations but North Korea I don't know yeah that that seems a little I mean yeah I guess scientists are going to do it right there's I think there are a lot of instruments biometric tattoos and that sort of thing like I wonder if you could tattoo something on your arm that detects a mole in an any scientist in other countries in the world are GonNa follow our rules and so this guy he's willing to go anywhere that will have him right and that's the even yes he he wants to get himself Chris Byrd is it possible no it's not could it be possible yet absolutely who knows where this has gone so that he doesn't have to search every crevice every time he looked out the window like old is a high level of whatever it is that it measures I mean I have i Berg are necessarily going to prioritize trying to block the sun from him there don't understand it and be able to tell the I have so many of those would I assume are you would call them all all over my body and like I am I got a new one I would not even notice well so you WanNa biometric test where's the scientists are GonNa look like you're crazy none of this is gonNa work but maybe if we try vis vis a mess they I don't think that a scientist given a body too Sort of Jean that would keep your hair color that would I think people would I think people would I think there's a certain crowd in United States that would jump on that the botox crowd and right yeah they'll come out glowing or something I don't know what would you creek breaking your own body Michael Well to keep it on the on topic a little bit still a little bit of a barrier to entry North Korea right I I'm not sure Dennis Rodman don't go to North Korea to get Chris Bury don't go to North Korea I'm a I'm a little bit of an introvert him like go outside at night and I was glowing a little bit more attention than I want I think no I think it'd be I think it'd be a penny aspect of it also the pig man whatever it is that's reflecting the wavelength of white it's makes your hair color the color it is just alter that crisper that changed that and then hook it up got basically they can do and guessing at some point so we'll yeah you're gonNA start with upgrading your muscles and the city of your Ucla and your arm so that you can be a major league pitcher and throw a hundred miles an hour without injury all that stuff all that good stuff well hey if if you have a great idea something we should crisper wouldn't happen I can change my hair color from my phone now even better okay yeah we need to we need to think big here we're starting out to small anything we can tweet at US why dwi underscore podcast or on our facebook group you did what now you have those crisper to the election Mike founder lifetime hair color nothing I mean that seems pretty easy like there's a gene that eventually you know eventually stopped working so could you add in Tabacum can I can I ask my metabolism that would that would do it I'm here with you bioluminescence skin cool if you could crisper the gene for that causes gray hair we'll get there that's probably I wouldn't be surprised if we get some that because they're going to do it anyway so at least we gotta move along with them and try to keep ahead of them well yeah and that's the big problem too we can try and figure this out for our own country but then give a story ideas give us feedback tell me how you like my new microphone all

metastasized California Thun Bern Programmer Russia Stephanie scientist Michael McKay twenty minutes five minutes nine years
Under the Radar 144: Concerns About the Future

Under the Radar

29:18 min | 2 years ago

Under the Radar 144: Concerns About the Future

"Welcome to under the radar a show, but independent app development. I'm Marco Arment and I'm David Smith under the radar is never longer than thirty minutes. So let's get started. So this is an interesting time of year for me. And I think in some ways for you because I've been realizing that I am coming up in just a couple of weeks on my ten year anniversary in the app store, which is kind of a remarkable and scary thing. And I believe you are anniversary actually was like a month ago if I remember right mine was in July July a couple of months ago. So you you, you're well past this. You've you've gone through all your nostalgia for me. I'm I'm in thick of minus Dalla as I kind of start thinking about coming up to this having had this job now, I guess for ten years and one of the things that is making me think about that is interesting. Like not necessarily negative or positive. It's just really interesting for me is the realization that I ten years ago. I had absolutely no expectation. That this is what I would still be doing in ten years. That while I enjoyed making apps back then and I know it was an exciting new opportunity. It was kind of really like it felt like it had a future and a growth it I would I would be would have been very surprised if someone had told me ten years from now, this is how you'll continue how you'd be making your living. And do you have in making your living this way for many years, and it just kinda makes me think about the future and maybe some worries that I have for the platform and hopes that it might have for the platform and kind of like what this might look like five, ten years from, you know, from now going forward because sometimes these things feel like they're just kind of like the last forever. It'll be this. This inevitable thing that I will continue to have a venue in a platform, and if I Bill viable place to make a living, you know forever or at least for my lifetime, which is really what I care about for the purposes of something like this. And, but at the same time, Mosser. Sort of aware that many, many platforms have come and gone in the over the course of history. And there are many people who have had to make changes and adapt to those changes as things go. And as someone who is very, very focused on essentially one platform, they the IRS. Even more specifically probably iphone platform, you know is my livelihood and it's something that I as a result have a strongly vested interest in its, you know, a in its future. And so I think it's just an interesting thing to think about some of the things that I worry about and then you know some of the things that give me hope. And I think the first place to start is even just a question of the iphone itself as a consumer platform that is desirable and active and has lots of users and like that is probably the area of all of these things that I have the least worries about that. It seems so ingrained in so many people's lives like even sometimes any problematic way like it is the iphone is so stuck into so many people's lives that that not happening that people turning away from the iphone, or I guess going to other platforms or other smartphones or things feel like a very far from now problem for me. It doesn't seem like the iphone is going to be like a. A have big issues like there were times over the last ten years where people were talking, oh, you know, cheap, Android phones are going to come in and they're going to undercut the iphone, and it's all going to Apple's going to fall apart or Android is going to catch up and get good, and that's going to happen or windows phone or something else is gonna come along or whatever. And it seems like the platform is largely just have has weathered all of those things. And Apple's growth may vary like some some years they may have have better run than others, but the overall just sort of like fundamental mechanics of theirs. Whatever a billion active IOS devices in the world doesn't seem like something that's going to be going anywhere anytime soon. Whenever anybody looks at technology and tries to make predictions about the president of the future, it's really tempting to go to one extreme or the other. It's really tempting to both. Not think anything will ever change from where it is now, what whatever conditions are now that is the right way to be in. That will be that way forever. Which as you know is never the case in technology, but it's also tempting to go the other way with frictions and say, well, everything always changes and things you know today are never going to within our lifetimes because actually like tech has has a large degree of of both extremes and a lot of things in the middle. You know, tech has a lot of things that are influx, especially when when markets and rolls and everything are young, you know, when when things aren't mature yet when things are still very much in flux like there could be a lot of change with new markets, emerging markets, things people haven't thought of yet. But once things, once things get a stab wished in tech, not everything sticks around for the long term, but a surprising. Of stuff does like, you know, we, if you look at long-term stuff, you know if you learned web programming in the late ninety s a lot of that. I mean, things have gotten more complex since then. But if you have been doing web programming, you know that entire time, it's it. You can keep up with it. And web programming is still here and doesn't appear to be going anywhere anytime soon. And that's that's been there for thirty years almost toward twenty years like its and I don't think web program makes is going to go away in the next ten to twenty years an impossible even longer than that. And so if you if you hit your self to the right boat or whatever the phrase. I'm not gonna phrases, you know, if you pick the right cart to sail on, then you can have most or all of a career doing one of those things that sticks around for a long term. It's hard to necessarily see those when they're emerging, like see what's going to be there long term. But there are things that are their long-term. If you are like a like a low level systems programmer, and you and you things and see, there's going to be jobs for you. There have been jobs for you for about fifty years, and there will be jobs for you for probably the next fifty years. Like even though there's other things that come along to try to replace it, they're all going to be either they're not going to be as popular as c. or they're not going to fully replace it or that or being a systems programmer, you'll be able to learn them and you'll be able to move to a different language and it's no big deal. Like there's going to be low level systems programming forever. There's gonna be web programming for a very long time. You know there and there has been, there's going to be mobile programming for a long time. Time the iphone is just one example of programming. You know what we have today, but like if another major mobile platform came along, you know, in a few years and severely disrupted the iphone, such that we would have to start using it for market reasons and start developing for it for market reasons. Then we would just transfer our skills like people can learn a new language. It's no big deal. Like our skills would transfer in the same way that like people who have web programming skills know about things like layout and page markup and on pigs logic, and back end logic and probably some stuff with databases and stuff that's all like that is regardless of the language that is being used and and some of the some of the platform details that are being used like you can have. You can be a web programmer, but that doesn't mean that you have to always use Java script or the you have to always UCSF so that you have to always those skills can transfer, you know, the vocabulary. You know what you're looking for. And you can easily pick up new things as they come. We'll just like us as mobile developers if we have to all of a sudden tomorrow switch to Android. And right now we're focused on IOS, you know, it's going to be disruptive for a little while, but it's not gonna like make that we don't have a career anymore. It would just be a new platform and alarmed, but we would already know about things like, well, we're going to have to have some way to display the UI and different screen sizes. We're going to have to have a certain concepts of buttons and switches, and navigation structure is, and we're going to have to deal with things like push notifications and background updates like those are things that are just kind of inherent to being a mobile app. And so our skills would just transfer. So on some level, you know, a lot of the stuff sticks around for a very long time and even a lot of that stuff like a lot of the mobile stuff came from desktops or came from, you know, web stuff. So you don't have to necessarily think you're going to be an iphone developer forever to think that you probably have a pretty good career for the foreseeable future being a mobile. Helper. Yeah. And I think what's interesting to me is the like, I think all that is absolutely right. And I think it's it's, it's the fascinating thing to of. It's kind of a scary realization that I now like if I ever needed to put a put a resume together again, I would say like I have ten years iphone expect like like mobile development for the iphone or for IOS like, and I remember early in my career having that sense of like when you'd see a job offer and it would be like, you know, looking for, you know, ten like ten plus years of experience with expert foreign and it's like, wait, that's me. Now I'm like that person. That that always seemed like so impossible to achieve that. Because when I was looking for jobs, I had like three to four years experience at most in anything. So. It was the idea of having like ten years, like man, those people are so old and that's us. Yeah. Now that's us and it's like, I guess it's it's a reassuring thing that ends like a. I think the what you're saying is right that in the sense that like broadly speaking like technology in the way in like the broad areas that we're working in, I think are fairly much established. Like mobile programming seems to be something that is here to stay for my lifetime. And then I think it's even more kind of comforting is that will probably be able to just continue to set up camp in in the apple ecosystem. Just stay here that like as much as I think I could transfer to go somewhere else like it seems like for from from my goals in terms of just being, you know, a a small independent software company. I finding a home here is is likely going to be something that I can continue to do. And I mean, I'm encouraged in many ways by the MAC, and while it's had a complicated history recently. There are many people. I know personally who have been making, you know, they, they're now on. They're like twenty thirty year MAC programmer developer. And you know, even as that platform maybe has you know, even doubt or or stagnated or whatever you want to say about the MAC. Like there's people still just steadily making making a good solid living there. And so I think as long as you as long as apple continues to want to have a developer ecosystem for for IOS it seems like something that should be viable for us. And I think in many ways with that makes me start to think about it, then it's like, what is apple going to do within this ecosystem? What are the things about that that you know of, give me pause or it can be hope. And you know, it's like I think about, for example, raffle recently has been having a massive push into on subscription. Pricing is something that they seemed like, you know, they have like there was that's I don't know. It's like secret, not secret. Meeting with a bunch of app developers in your you know services of general sense that that's the thing that they're pushing towards, which seems aligned with the general goal that apple has to increase their services revenue. And you know, having this having this broad base of recurring revenue is good for them is good for us like that's interesting. In terms of like, is that good for the platform? Is that good for me? Is that right now? I don't really. I make the majority of my income, not from subscription pricing, and so it's interesting to me. That's like, that's something that apple is going to want or to push towards or is this? Is there a point at which I could imagine that that's in that they require, or you know, it's interesting to think about how not that I think apple is going to try and be malicious in any of their choices. But if they're if they're pushing a direction that isn't something that I would necessarily wanted to be in or was in currently like they, they have a tremendous amount of control over me in that way. And that is like kind of worrying. So far as. It's never nice to feel like you're kind of obliged to do something, but it's the same time. You know, in the case of in this specific case, I say subscription pricing. It's like, okay, if that's something that they're emphasizing eventually, I'll probably just find a way to make that happen. And you know, like in my apps that have a tip jar, maybe they'll just end up having there'll be a subscription rather than a kind of a one time consume bullying at purchase and that maybe that is ultimately more fundamentally better. Maybe it's not, but you know, like there's ways to adapt to those kind of changes or pushes or emphasis that Apple's going to do. But at the same time, maybe subscription pricing is going to be the same kind of thing is like I add was where it's something that you know app I, it's been the platform is old enough that there have been things that were emphasised were areas of emphasis for apple that came and then weren't anymore. So it's it's hard to know. Apple has app, apple runs a tight ship and they, they have very strong opinions. It's, I don't know if I can if you can forgive. The kind of awkward and uncomfortable metaphor when you're training a puppy to walk on a leash. The puppy has a lot of opinions about what it wants to do and dogs do not take to leashes automatically. It isn't instinctual to them. You know, they will. I bite the leash and try to run it every different direction. It will be very upset about the leash and eventually they learn to walk on a leash and you you find, hopefully you find a kind of a happy medium. We're both of you are satisfied with the arrangement you have, but you are really the one in charge as the owner and the dog is kind of, you know, just kind of, you know, subject to that and kind of giving into that at some point put this is uncomfortable as as as a developer and it's all going, but. But that's kind of like apple holds the leash here on this entire industry. Like the inherent industry of IOS after helpers, like we fought and fought for a while to beginning, don't have app review whenever else, and we ultimately had no control and those we lost that battle. And now we kind of have to do you follow Apple's lead literally and like if they are, if they are directing us in a certain way, as developers, there are some degree of fighting we can do. There's some degree of non-compliance that that we can get away with. But in broad strokes, we still basically have to do what they want and subscription pricing is, you know? So some of those areas that are like that we can't fight are things like apper like, hey, you know what? We're stuck with f. review. We're stuck within that purchase rules and stuff like that. Like, that's that's fine. And then there are certain things that like we can disobey them or go a different way, but it's going to be difficult for us. So that's things like paid up front apps. Versus free within at purchase or something later like you can still have a paid up front app, but certain things will be harder for you if you do. And over time that ratchet just keeps getting tighter and tighter and tighter. Right? And I think subscription pricing is just one of those things. It's it's a kind of thing where like you can keep not doing that and you don't have to do specifically bracing, but over time I think they're gonna make it increasingly compelling to do that. They've already done in a large degree with lots of other factors of it, but like it's it's important, I think, broader picture then than just this one topic, broader picture. I think it's important to look at where apple seems to be directing us and try to find ways to minimize how you have to fight them on things like make decisions in what you build or how you build it, or how it looks, or how it works, or certain business decisions, how it makes money try to align most or all of those decisions. With what is apple making easy and encouraging today because it's so hard to fight them on really any front, very hard. And it's especially hard to fight them on multiple fronts. And so if you if you kind of read the tea leaves, which usually they make pretty clear. And try to figure out like, what do they want us to be doing? What are they promoting? What are they encouraging if you can make yourself and your apps fit into that, you're generally better off. We are brought to you this week by squarespace, make your next move with squarespace, squarespace, let's you easily create a website for your next idea with unique domain orbiting templates and much more and they can make all sorts of sites whether you want an online store or portfolio, or even host a podcast or something simpler, like a blog or a site for your business. Squarespace is an almond platform. Lets you do just that there's nothing to install no patches to worry about no upgrades needed. You don't have to worry about any of that stuff squarespace, has it all covered for you? And they have award winning twenty four, seven customer support if you need any help. Scribbles also lets you quickly and easily grab unique domain name and all those award-winning templates. They have our beautifully designed for you to show off your great ideas. Scarce base is so great. I highly suggest next time you to make a site. Try it there. You will be shocked how easy it is and how fast it is to get everything. You want their scripts plans start at just twelve dollars a month, and you can start a free trial with no credit card required to go to squarespace dot com slash radar when you sign up, make sure the offer code radar to get ten percent off your first purchase of a website or domain, and to show your support for under the radar. Once again, the discourse base dot com slash radar and code radar for ten percent off your first purchase. We thank squarespace for their support squarespace, make your next move. Make your next website. So now so think is interesting is what apple is like. There's things like subscription. Pricing are things that are more business in their emphasis. And then I also think about things that are Apple's interests that are more technical. Like I keep seeing like apple seems to care so much about a are any arc it. And it's this thing that I have. No, like I, I have not. I have no feelings for this platform like it doesn't really make sense to me when I use it is kind of like awkward and weird, and maybe this is the thing where it's like, oh, and you know, in two or three years -nology will be different and will make more sense. And this is just the early stages, but I will say it makes me all makes me feel weird when something is clearly an emphasis for for apple that they put a lot of time energy stage time, like they are bang on that aerodrome steadily and to not feel like I have any part of that really like I did. I've made like one toy project in our kit just to try it, but I've never gone. Anything farther than that. And that feels really weird and awkward and makes me kind of nervous. And especially when it contrasts with something that's like on the flip side where like health and fitness as a as a flip side where like that is also an emphasis and something that apple built an entire wealth did. I don't think they knew the nude at the time necessarily, but they built an entire device that's focused on health and fitness in the apple watch like that has whatever it's big, started its life as like that is primarily how it is marketed now that it is a health and fitness tool. It is able to a smart health guardian like it's doing a tremendous amount of stuff like doing work in some. You know, some of my apps being in the health and fitness area feel super comfortable feels like a really nice cosy place to have their and it just interesting how contrast so strongly with something like a arket where it's like, I got nothing like if this is what the the future is, then I'm I'm missing this boat because I don't get it. I mean, I think some degree of that. Kind of concern is always a healthy thing that have. I think to be a little bit worried that, like I, I wonder if I'm missing the next big thing because you know part of something I should have said earlier, but forgot to is like when you're looking at your your career and trying to figure out like Ken Ken this technology last year entire career, whether it's, you know, as I mentioned or like web programming or mobile programming or low level program or whatever else, whatever else it is. One thing to consider is the stage in your career that you are at and the stage in its life cycle that technology is at ideally, you align those things as much as possible. Ideally, when you are early in your career, you get it on something that is in its early stages, and then you kinda ride it as your career goes. So like today, if you're if you're like seventeen today is probably not a great time for you to invest heavily in web programming because even though I think it's going to be here. While that's going to be here awhile in more of like a boring way, more like a flat, like low growth way, if you want to both be relevant and be like a hot higher talent, and if you wanna maximize your chances of making a lot of money, you want to be something that is early in its stages because then as as as as it matures and as it grows and as its markets shaken out, you are right there writing that early wave as you are really in your career. And then as you're later in your career, you will be an expert in that thing. You will have been doing it for a long time as it starts leveling off and maturing and kind of cooling, and then you can decide whether you want to jump something else at that point, or you might decide when you're like, you know, when you're like in your forties, you might decide, you know what you don't want that much turbulence in your career. You're happy to be in that stable place and because maybe focus more on family and stuff, and you don't wanna be like super turbulent at work and you don't wanna have crazy long hours working at startups. Like that's this is a very common pattern. People take. Right? And so it is nice to align your career timing with the timing of whatever industry that you are trying to be in here. Anyway, all that being said was something like a are, and you know your comparison of having not much interest in a are, but a lot of interest in health and fitness and those being apples, you know, seeming interest right now, I would say like there's a whole lot of stuff that Apple's interested in that doesn't go anywhere that they try it and it kind of Peters out really early and it's fine. Health and fitness I think is is going to always be a baseline. It's going to be there for a very long time, and I think you're you're totally fine. They're a are is a huge question Mark right now it might be really big in the future, but it doesn't seem like that's a given. It seems like that's, that's a maybe and we, we just don't know yet. If a are does get really big in the future. We might decide to adopt it or we might decide, you know what? We're old, we're tired. We're not gonna. We're gonna just let that go and we're going to stick stick over here on ice. I safe areas that we know that will probably still be good, good size markets in themselves. And the other thing is like the world technology is so big, even even among the field of IOS like you mentioned health fitness as you're safe area, we'll right now. Audio is my safe area. Those are both like things that a lot of people use but are not like the hot thing anymore. Like maybe yours is at least more recent than mine. Mine was twenty years ago, but in neither case are we at the bleeding edge, but that's okay because the roads technology, especially if the road of like what Apple's doing and mobile is so big, you can't be super involved in all of it. Like there's tons of stuff that iphones can do that. Neither of us have ever. Well, maybe not you maybe maybe not me that that neither of us have have currently working on apps for like there's Hector is the whole world gains which is massive, and neither of us are entered at all right. And that's not going away anytime soon that, but we're not in it, but that's okay. Like, you know, it might turn out the AR does come out and maybe does get really big, but we don't necessarily have to do it because it's a big world can't do everything. So to some degree, you know, you have to look at look at something that is an incoming wave and kind of decide whether or try to ride it or not, and you don't. You can't catch them all. Yeah. No, I mean, and of course it's it's an industry and objects. It also makes reminds reminds me of Pokemon go, which was a big lie. Like this big flash, super exciting, and then it disappeared. I mean, it's still exists like, but it's not really thing. It's still bigger than anything you and I will probably ever work on, but it seems like it's disappeared like, yeah, like you. Definitely. It's good to have that that that that that might that you don't have to catch them all that. Like you're not gonna be able to do everything and it's okay to find something. I think as long as you like to to align those two points, Uber making is the. If you, if you can find something that isn't actively working against apple interests or your your, your your platform of choices, interests that if you are vaguely say, it's instantly butting up against edges, you're probably in a good place like it doesn't have to necessarily be maybe like the the new hotness. It can just be a something that is likely going to be a stable part of this thing. That'll be kind of boring in some ways. But honestly, in some ways, I kind of like the boringness in the sense that like. It's I remember the early days like ten years ago where it felt like I was in a constant race that I was actively racing against like these, unlike these, these, these unknown unnamed forces that like we're all just kind of like scrambling to find our place. And I'm sure in some ways, there's new like new new platforms, new interesting things that kind of, you know, whatever that goldrush, that land rush that competition is there. And in some ways, I kind of like that I'm working in a marketplace that's pretty saturated like I make a step counter, like it's it's not something that's particularly new or novel like people have been wearing them on their belts for years. And like my many competitors have come and gone. And in some ways, it's kind of nice to just like be part of that market saturation that like I have my little place my little niche and it seems like it's vaguely and I, it's not actively working against anything that apple wants to do. And. So it's kind of nice to have that comfort into Hannah. Have the sense that changes from here are likely going to be sort of slow more more likely than not will be slow and would be kind of like a slow decay over time rather than a sharp abrupt like fall off a cliff kind of thing that like some new, some new step counting technology appears, and someone comes in with a hot new step counter and it takes over the market like that seems pretty unlikely. I mean, in the same way that like podcasting, at this point, like there's enough players and they've been around for long enough and like there's differences in feature in capability and market share. But things are just sort of shifting back and forth. It's not. It's not revolutionary. It's just this progression over time. And in some ways I find that it's like it's always it's kind of like not good to be like intercepts rated market, but it's also kind of nice if you don't necessarily need your marketplace to grow. I'm not trying to ten x my revenue every year. Just like wanna stay like I am. So being in saturated market is actually kind of nice. Well, like nothing will ever stay the way it is forever, but you can choose like certain you can choose more or less turbulence, depending on what market you enter or what have -nology you place bets on or whatever else. And it isn't. It's nice to recognize just like, you know, there are different levels of that turbulence, depending on what you pick, and there will always be some possibility for turbulence, but but you can. You can very much choose like your class of Visentin applies like investing like there's so much so much about this world's like, you know, when you're young, you can take bigger risks and you might want to. But then as you get older as you get more tired or as you get more busy with other things, you might want to lower the risk of certain things. Like I, it's important to recognize that you have lots of options out there and that things will always change you will you will be able to deal with the change ultimately, and that's not a bad thing, but you do have some input about how much change that you are likely to face. And I think it's it's the reality is in. Summary, it seems like you know, ten years in, I'm still just as sort of positive about the platform broadly that this is. I think a good place to make a living that I'm, I enjoy making my living here and it'll be fascinating if in ten years you and I can have the the same conversation with another, you know, at that point, having twenty years of experience with with with this platform with development here. Yeah. And honestly, if I had to bet today, I bet that will happen. I bet we will still be doing this in ten years and we will be able to have that conversation. We'll just be older. Yeah, I'm more tired and more. Thanks for listening everybody and we'll talk to you next week. Bye.

Apple programmer squarespace developer Marco Arment Mosser Dalla IRS UCSF president David Smith Visentin Ken Ken
S9:E8 - Why you should read the new edition of the Pragmatic Programmer (Dave Thomas, Andy Hunt)

CodeNewbie

49:59 min | 1 year ago

S9:E8 - Why you should read the new edition of the Pragmatic Programmer (Dave Thomas, Andy Hunt)

"<music> hey cubeys. We wanna make sure this show is helping you on your journey do that. We need your feedback. We put together a little survey. We would love for you to fill it out the first one hundred people who do so we'll get free cody be stickers and we'll also randomly like five people and raffle off code navy the monks. The deadline is submitted september. First link is in your show nuts. Whether you're a true code newbie or a veteran developer consider zither using your skills to create tech for good be a part of code in response a program started by ibm to bring forward open technology solutions that that can help communities in need of critical aid learn more and get involved at ibm dot biz b. is e slash code and response <music> welcomed cast but we ought to be on their coding journey in those developing you on yours. I'm your host iran and today we're talking to dave. Thomas and andy hunt the authors of the prolific book on coating the pragmatic programmer. That's kind of montauk. Ktar point is too so seats sent them young. You know a lot of this stuff is medicine. Three drops will cure you but if you chug the whole bottle you're going to die. The book is now are being reissued for its twentieth anniversary and we dive into the books then packed what's change in the new edition and what remains the same along with things they've learned over the past twenty years after this you might ardi heard us talking about boot camps on the show and they've been changing careers and their lives will flatter school is one of the best the education you received in skills you gain in the community. You'll have will prepare you for the rapidly growing tech field but a finance google dot com slash koby door more. That's flattering school. Dot com slash code newbie actualize online live is an online bootcamp created and taught by expert educators. It's one hundred percent live and can be taken the comfort of your home. They use video conferencing so you get to actually see and talk to your instructors and classmates in real time that means you have live interaction and feedback back now just during instruction but during all your exercises and projects as well learn more at dot co slash code newbie. That's actualized dot co slash blatko newbie whether you're building at for millions of users or small personal project mongo d._b. Is the most popular non relational database and now with mongo d._b. Atlas you can take advantage of mungo. D._b.'s flexible document data model as a fully automated cloud service drive mongo d._b. Atlas today at mongo db dot com slash cloud metro being here for asher so let's start with some personal background day. Let's start with you. Tell me a bit about what you're up to in a little bit more about your background started coding own on an aso thirty three teletype in nineteen seventy something writing and basic did it because i had run out of things to do at at the end of term at school and so they sent me across the road to participate in a kind of experiment on teaching programming and i i just fell in love at that point. I changed my ideas. Who are i want to go to college and what i wanted to do at college and basically i've been programming ever since that's what i'm doing. Now is a kind of semi retired from the bookshelf. I've got a lot more time to play which is both a blessing and a curse blessing thing is i've got more time to play and the curve is i keep doing too many things and not getting anything done. You're also a professor right. I'm i'm an adjunct professor donna to southern methodist in dallas at the time it was <hes> one of the only <hes> graduate level course in in lecture. It's it's actually through. It is really interesting. It's interesting to watch. I mean universities still teach people some pretty boring languages sie plus plus and java and javascript morals and is really interesting watching people for the first couple of weeks totally struggling ogling and then suddenly when they get it. They just explode into this kind of productivity that they've never had before. It's wild yeah the times when you struggle can be canary uncomfortable born to get it feel so wonderful yeah and a lot of now complain about having to go back to the sleepless blessing the driver. That's spoil. That's what it was well yeah. He's kinda. My entire dr point is to sow seeds of dissent among the young. He's out like a great professor so andy. What about you. Tell me about your coding background well so when and i started programming it was a little bit later. We did not have dinosaurs grazing at the window quite as much we were still chiseling on stone tablets. Though so it was little primitive <hes> i did my first commercial program roundabout nineteen eighty two and little guess a couple of years before that i i was trolling through a radio shack back when they had such things and they had this little book on the sort of coming microprocessor revolution and i'm. I'm reading this as an impressionable kid going. This is really cool stuff. I could make a living out of this. The sounds really interesting so i started. I i think my first language was sixty. Five assembler followed closely by whatever flavor of c. basic or such that was around so i started off with their work worked for some fortune. One hundred companies small startups more recently besides running the bookshelf <hes>. I've written a couple science fiction books. I regularly play in local local bands. I record some music. Just started again re giving workshops for people of how to get better at programming both individually and as an organization you know what you can do to you know sort of learn and improve your skills so we are here to talk about the pragmatic program which is a book you all rhode twenty years years ago congrats on the twenty year anniversary so let's start at the original pragmatic programmer. What was the impetus for you all getting together to write that book david i they were off consulting at the time and <hes> this mutual friend that we knew got us together on this project and it was one of these sort of impossible projects projects that there was not nearly enough time and there was no way could be done so our friend called the two people that he trusted get this done. He called dave and myself self and that was the first time we met so we met on this project and realized that we had very similar. The same ideas of this is how software software should be done. These are the things that you should do. These are the right things. These are the common pitfalls you should avoid so we started doing some consulting together and we we realized after some number of clients that it was all the same people were making the same mistakes over and over again and we were telling the same little stories. He's and you know trying to get them to do the same kind of thing so we thought okay just to save ourselves. A little bit of time and effort will write a little white paper justin a little. You'll throw down some thoughts of some simple principles some of the basics from computer science that maybe people had not been exposed to or had forgotten some of the things that we encountered in our experience that were sort of common and you know a better way to do things and it was just going to be a little white paper to give our clients and unlike every software project ever it grew in scope a little bit and it became the pragmatic programmer book. How long was that initial white paper. We go to to about a hundred and twenty pages for remember rightly and now one of our wives. I think it was actually mine suggested you know this should be a book. You know we had no no experience or confidence to be with you in that <hes> so we thought okay how can we get some advice on turning this random collection of words into a book and so he has this really devious master plan that we would send our <unk> hundred pages off to the best publisher in the computer era that we knew and they would rejected but when they rejected it they give us a really nice letter saying what was wrong with it and then we'd be able to use that to fix it and nice yeah well. The evil publishing company ruined the entire plan because it didn't reject the book and so it kind of ended up we android the contractor rushdie right the full that was starting in the end ninety-seven it took about two years. Were you surprised that it ended up being so long when you thought about i'll just put together our thoughts on white paper put into the white paper and then we'll see how it goes then. You ended up with over three hundred pages. Take that actually the opposite. I i was pleasantly surprised. It was so short i mean with both of us. You put a nickel and we can talk all day and one of the things with the pregnant pro. That was very very difficult for both of us. I think was to limit what we said. That's actually i think that's heart art of its kind of its secret sauce kind of the secret to its success because we had i don't know some number of tips and chapters and things that we kind of toyed with your. Let's put this in you know. Let's think about this and had to decide no and really distill it down so instead of laboring on on on any one of these points we try to get down to a really pithy little soundbite almost like a tip so we have these tips scattered throughout to help you remember for them but also to condense as much as we could into a very concise sort of explanation my personal kind of target it was we wouldn't write any section that you couldn't read during a bathroom break. Okay i wanna talk about what actually made it into the book. What are some a key parts. I mean some parts that you're most proud of well. There's a few things we did which actually have become industry standard terms which is kind of like it shocks me to this day. You'll see people all over the web talking about dry inches. Don't repeat yourself tip which is probably probably also the most misunderstood tip in restore book so it's kind of unfortunate but that kind of fills me with some pride this quite a few things like that where people talk analogy which we did invent the term but i think we popularized it and what does that term mean to directions are also is if you move along one of them. You're not changing position on the other one so if you think about like an x y gruff if you walk on the x axis you'll saying at the same location on the y axis or she will anywhere parallel to the axis right so the idea there. Is that you to write software where the components since are orthogonal so that if you make changes to one you're not gonna break. Everything else sounds like a really important principle. I think it is all of our principles. Cels of designs cut interesting 'cause back. Louis wrote the original. We didn't really we haven't really expressed in words before as so it's only when we came came back to read it the second time round realize that most about design points all come back to this idea of making software easy to change and also analogy is definitely one of the key concepts or the other terms we came up with was the idea of programming by coincidence which again people will bandy about like oh your program by coincidence or oh no i caught myself programming by coincidence and that was just something we made up to try to explain that idea here where hack some code together and it kinda but yeah but you don't know why and then it breaks and you don't know why either because you don't know how it worked in the first place so there are there are quite a number of things like that and again from our our early days of consulting in telling the little stories in the little anecdotes anecdotes. There's quite a few of those have made it into the sort of popular consciousness in fact there was a really funny tweet the other day when we we're talking about the new edition in coming out. There's a story in the original about stone soup and boiled frogs and the boiled frog part of that is talking about situational awareness. Where are you know you can become very inured very blinded to slow changes in your environment like the apocryphal story if you take a cold hold pan of water and put a frog in it and turn it up slowly. The frog won't notice and we'll get boiled but if you throw a frog in boiling water jumps right out. I have no idea if that's it's true and we are very careful. Note in the book. We have not tried this imperiously just just no but so someone on the other day on twitter said oh the second edition is out. I can't wait to see if the frog makes it this time so that actually really really warmed my heart because so many <hes> computer science taxes programming books out there so many presentations and conferences are so oh dead dull serious and boring that you know you're you're sitting there reading and literally you'd rather know your arm off than finish it and so we made a real point to inject a little bit. You know it's not a comedy book. It's not humorous but there's a fair bit of snark l. little sarcasm here and there just because this should be fun. What were you hoping that people would get out of it. You mentioned that you wrote it as a result of your consulting work having to say a lot of the same things over and over again. What were you hoping what happened when you publish the book so we had no idea what was going to happen. I mean we'd never done this before to be honest with you. I still have no idea why it took off the way it did but it did take off and it became became apparent pretty quickly. We actually hit number. I think is the seven or nine remember on the amazon all book list. Wow that's pretty again especially for your first yeah but i think what i was personally hoping for <hes> for two things first of all i learned a lot in the process of of actually thinking about the stuff in the book and so that was really satisfying just having worked out in my own head. I was personally hoping that what what we would do. Is i guess empower people which sounds a little bit kind of new agey but what i was hoping would happen is that people will get the confidence to make their own decisions and not just received wisdom from other people. We tried to talk to people about how it was their responsibility and how now it was up to them to learn stuff and up to them to do what they should do and in fact we've actually amplified that quite a bit in the second edition in addition to that we really tried to push the idea of continuous learning and figuring stuff out right so we used a word or explain. Some concept that you hadn't seen before weren't familiar with the ideas. You're going to go off and look that up in back. When we wrote the book it's like oh you'd go search for this on alta vista the the what google of the day you know and whatever it's going to be twenty years from now but you know you go find it somewhere a lot of the tips and a lot of the things had these as little teasers almost little gangly bits of you know. Here's this interesting thing. Maybe you haven't heard of before or here's this reference to classic literature or something. That's you know maybe uncommon or you know what was the definition of the word deadline. Wh what was this etymology. Where did that come from. It's actually kind of interesting so we'd we'd have these little tidbits things just to help kind of foster. The sense of curiosity which i think is really one of the most critical goal aspects of being a good developer is to be curious about everything like oh. I didn't know that that's cool. Let me find out more about that. Let me go dig into that that a little bit not obsessively but just well. That's kind of neat. Let's let me take a look at that or i hadn't heard of this technique or that language or that approach or whatever what was the response. Did you get some cool stories from folks who said the book help them. Oh my for twenty years straight. We've actually had had quite a few people. This is thing i get it quite often. Every time i hear it. My heart stops little bit where people would say original book or a sawyer talk and i quit my job kinda like that's a little scary their way really yeah yeah. I mean if they didn't say i took up the priesthood then i know i've done <hes> most of them would be like a read that and it said that i'm responsible for for my own life and you're right so i've quit his boring job and i've gone and done something interesting for me. That's that's really rewarding. <music> tone swat iron is a global school with immersive and online courses designed compassionate people who are ready to change their lives just flat on schools free seventy five hour bootcamp prep will you are not as coding languages like javascript and ruby but but also had a job interview by the way. Did you know that they're now part of we work which means they now offer classes at a growing number of we work locations around the world. A bolt change begins with a single step day. Yours go to school dot com slash code newbie and learn more. That's school dot com. Slash code newbie actualize actualise online live is not only a super convenient way to receive a top notch bootcamp instruction from the comfort of your home. They also have not tools to help. Learn everything from new code in concepts to syntax the even produce a free weekly video called think what the software engineer which teaches you things like how to debunk code how how to research problems and how to teach yourself new languages learning the mindset of a software engineer is the key to getting past the hurdles that can bog you down as you coat check out the series at actualized dot co slash code newbie. That's actualize dot co slash coat newbie. Y released the book now because i know it started the twentieth anniversary but you could have done a tenth year anniversary. You could fifteenth year anniversary so what's special about now well. It's twenty twenty and it's the twentieth anniversary it's like to- cousy was meant to it's twenty way down yeah yeah yeah. That's what he said must be what he said yeah. I think to be honest with you. A lot of what happened in the intervening twenty two years was a kind of very slow information gathering process we wrote the book and then we kind of lifted for twenty years and during that time <hes> i think we both absorbed feedback on stuff that was good stuff that was bad and we also tried explaining ideas and book to people. You know we did workshops. We have conference stokes for just over beer somewhere. We got to the point where i think we both happened to have enough confidence that we will be able to make worthwhile changes. I think ten years ago ma yeah. I think we were still in that gathering face. I'm a very big believer for in waiting until your brain says it's okay and for me. I was just waiting for that moment and also kind of interesting and remarkable considering kind of our different where we've been in the last couple of years. It's been pretty different. We both started off with a list of all right. What are the sort of new things we want to cover. What are the the important things that have changed that you know we sort of want to talk about and we came up with with separate lists and then compared them and they were what eighty percent at the same time it was like okay so what kind of on the same page which was a good sign. It's like okay well. You know neither one of us is completely often the weeds oh we both are it could go either way really again. That was one of those good feelings. We might be on onto something here because we we we we're in agreement. We're headed in the same direction here. What are some things that are different about this addition. I know you said that there are twenty years. Worth of lessons learned that you're now incorporating into this. What are some of those thanks thanks. There's a lot of little changes obviously because you know all the tips had examples using the technology of the time or the fashions of the time and when you go back and read something about cora an arm i it's like what who or eiffel is a language. It's like wow you you know. No one knows these things so at one level there was that sort of stuff that needed to be updated and refreshed more modern sensibilities and things that have become become popular that we'd advocated back then like unit testing and <hes> you know automated deployment and that sort of thing but i thought one of the more interesting bits when we wrote the book it was ninety seven ninety eight that was before the agile movement starting and as you recall dave and i were were two of the gang that wrote the agile manifesto and sort of kicked off the agile movement and it's interesting to see a lot of the things in the original book that sort sort of predated that and you'll certainly pointed toward that and lead the way toward it but it wasn't really that yet you know we had to make some the pretty good changes towards the end of the book to sort of you'll come up to date with more modern sensibilities tying not in what we had started maybe back then but now here's what it is now well partly that but also partly in those twenty years the ideas behind the manifesto have have been mutated some would say corrupted but okay yeah and so one of the things that we tried to do in this new edition is to get back to the basics there and so the brand new section which is the essence of agility various observations that things things like you cannot buy an agile project management system off the shelf and why and then what you do about it and how how you handle that so so and he's right. There were a lot of small changes but there were also some pretty massive changes. This probably outguess. Oh maybe twenty to thirty not brand new sessions partly because technology trench so there's a whole bunch on currency partly because the world changed so there's actually new sections at the beginning meaning and the end about responsibility <hes> personal ethics and how to judge where the what you're doing is his <unk> g good or bad in this more complicated world and we also the original example was not intentionally a piece of patriotic sexist crab but him in there this kind of stuff so that we went through edged in fact we have to change the subtitle book because the subtitle of the book was from journeyman to master both are perfectly good words a how there could be some some debate about that so that changed again. These are the things that have changed over the last twenty years. We had nothing in the original book book about security because you know security and programming really wasn't an issue back then maybe it wasn't. We didn't know it but you know it certainly early not today's game so you know there's there's <hes> we added a whole whole tip on that but there was a lot of little bits here and there where maybe we advocated advocated some common practice or didn't mention something where it's like. Oh no you wouldn't do that in today's world because it's not the same anymore and you've got to be careful out there that led to my favorite chip in the new book where we're talking about ethics and the fact that as programmers we all blessed and cursed with the fact that we are creating the new world the world is now formed largely in code and that's incredible responsibility possibility and obviously is being misused so my favorite tip in the new book is a kind of warning about that and it's simply if you enable scumbag you are a scumbag. Oh i like that. I also was idea of personal responsibility because i don't think we talk enough about ethics when it comes to cutting in our job as coaches i think we get so wrapped up in the code itself. When we get so excited about what we're building. We don't always stop to think. Should i built this and what what are the ramifications of me building. This and you know who's gonna use it and how they're gonna use that. I think there are a lot of questions that we just don't stop to to ask ourselves. You know what in the the old days. The coat that we wrote biolog- was pretty boring. It was cold. It was let them lines stores in this kind of stuff right but as we move towards a world where you'll toaster a processor in it. The codes were writing now. A days is life or death. We can literally if if our code misbehaves or if we leave security holes opened another people can appropriate devices. We literally kill people with our code and we're really not. We're not prepared for that. We don't talk about it. I've never heard anybody talk about that. We're really not equipped to deal with the hard questions like that. I mean we still have long debates on how to name things and we even have talk about that right because it's it's hard and all of a sudden go from gee gee. What should we call this too. I have become the destroyer of worlds i mean. That's a bit of a jump there but that's you know that's that's what we're up against and ah we said you know even in the first book. We said this is a hard thing that we're trying to do. You know software development programming. It's hard. It's probably one of the hardest hardest things you could do but it was hard back then because it was technical now it's still technical but also it's ethical as well. It's everything i mean. That's the you you know. The side effects of the globally interconnected society is you're not just writing code. You're effectively writing. You know the defacto facto part of some law some social interactions some social hierarchy. I mean it's like it's tied into everything and that's really a remarkable the opportunity and certainly quite daunting. I bet you the guys who twitter never thought that they could actually toppled regime yeah a- and also never thought that they could drive people to suicide and yet they are so when it comes to ethics. What does the book say. Hey how do you deal with these ethical dilemmas. The book itself has a couple of sessions festival the beginning it says you are responsible for what you do. <music> not just in terms of the actual code right but also some of the path that you take through life you would do not allow your employer or society the order to dictate a path for you because you only get one chance take control of it and so the whole book is written with that kind of assumption that the people reading are responsible and actively involved in their own lives so then the end we talk about the ethics of it and we talk about about the fact that we all created the world's and i mean there's no pat answer to how to deal with that. We don't have a framework for that kind of discussion but as start we said that whenever you do something you should ask yourself two questions about every piece of code that you're right. The first question is have. I done everything i can possibly think of to protect the user and that's an interesting question because when you think about that in the kind of bigger context cheques you suddenly start seeing all kinds of ways your coat interacts with the physical world code that would seem to be pretty benign suddenly starts taking on a bigger context and then the second question is kind of in a way related is also come like the golden rule. It's if i finish this software. Would i be comfortable using it all. I like that yeah so what are some things that stayed the same in this book. What are some parts that were not changed so the technology obviously changed but you know what hasn't changed for hundreds. Thousands of years is people. It's still still us. You know we still have the same cognitive biases we still have the same problems learning where the same issues working with each other working in groups you you know all the sort of ironically named soft skills because they're not soft skills. They're mart. They're difficult and they are absolutely necessary. You cannot succeed in development or in any kind of organization if you take the position of while. I'm just gonna be technical. I'm i'm just gonna to learn this one language or framework really well and i'm just a coder and i don't want to talk to people or work with people you can't do that. You know it's not how the world works you. You've got to deal with these pesky humans such as they are so really a lot of the philosophical tips in the sort of approach is is that kind of dealt with teams and people issues the anything along. Those lines pretty much stayed word for word because that hasn't changed a lot of the other changes were lodge aww changes. The idea is still the same. We just found <hes> maybe better early different ways of expressing it so for example. We always talked about dry. Don't repeat yourself and over the years people have kind of come to misunderstand that to say don't cut and paste code so we career wrote that section just to try to explain a bit better what we actually meant by what were other things that confuse people or needed clarification in this edition. What are the section. I think that we've clarified a lot. The whole <hes> what is cold bend or break which is about flexibility is a chapter with like five or six topics topics in it and fundamental to that is his idea of change and we talk a lot about decoupling and you know how to deal with data structures in such a way that works makes it easy to change code etc etc. It's not new concepts from the first edition but it's totally rewritten because over the period of twenty years. I think we come up with some better ways of expressing what we're trying to do. I i don't know i guarantee you that there will be the whole bunch of stuff that we could have done better in this book as well and maybe we'll do a fortieth addition where if nurse lets me in that section. Dave was just talking about in the in the bender break section in the original version of the book we had a whole section we called meta programming where where we talked about the idea of moving configuring things out of the code base and just putting them in configuration data somewhere you know in a database configure file something like that which is a reasonable approach to take and we we describe it slightly differently in the new one but some number of years after the book came out we were out consulting at some group and they had taken that advice to an extreme level so they had something like forty forty four thousand configuration variables for their application and it was it was killing them because to add any little thing to their app was now like a six month process because you had to add it to the u. I you had to address the database. You had to put an admin screening for it was became a very big deal and we we actually mentioned that in the book. Now it's like you know. A lot of this stuff is medicine. Three drops will carry you but if you chunk the whole bottle you're gonna die coming up next david andy talk about their favorite parts of the new edition of the pragmatic programmer and what kind of impact half the hoop it might have after this <hes> mongo d._b. Is the most popular non relational database for a reason it super intuitive and easy for developers to use. It's and chances are as a software engineer. You've crossed paths that before now with mongo d._b. Atlas you get it's flexible document data model as a fully automated cloud service it handles all the costly database operations admiral tasks like security high availability in dinner recovery so you don't have to you'd try mongo d._b. Atlas today at mongo d._b. Dot com slash cloud tribe dot com online rose original podcast red hat that i host is back for season three and it's all about programming languages and this episode three we chat with trawl severance a professor at the university of michigan school of information about burnett ike the man who aided java scrip- in ten days and how he created it like a trojan horse when java scrip- was released along with netscape navigator two point oh on november thirtieth nineteen ninety five all that magic was housed into a powerful little seed of a language twenty eight companies including america online an a._t. And t. agree to use it as an open standard language when it was released there were some old pros looking down their noses at java script. They thought it was just a language for newbies. They missed its revolutionary. Potential brendan decided he would sneak in all these super super advanced concepts from languages that are not well known that were very like advanced object oriented languages and so so javascript is almost like a trojan horse. It's sort of sneaked into our collective consciousness with the idea that it was silly and fun easy and lightweight but then built in from almost the very beginning was a powerful deeply thought well thought out programming language. That's capable of doing literally almost anything in computer science. You can find it. Wherever you get your podcasts and make sure to check the show dot com slash command line. I'm i'm wondering what are your favorite parts of the book the new book the end finishing it no no i i personally like the very first in the very reload chips the your responsible and you have to be ethical tips then there's a whole bunch of new stuff the i really quite like and he has a really cool tip cool. Don't run your headlights. Where does that mean so. The general idea is that as as human beings as a species we suck at making predictions but we don't know that we think he we think that we're really good at it and and if you look at most of the sort of endemic failures in software it some variation on you took too big a chunk. You tried to do too much at once. So this idea of trying to take small steps always take a small step. Get feedback and act on it us unit tests. All these kinds ends of ideas are trying to take small steps and get feedback because if you don't it's like the thing in the car where you can literally outrun your headlights headlights in other words. You're going fast enough that they are on a curve that you don't illuminate where you're headed in time enough to actually react to it and you go flying off the curve again probably not the best metaphor but it's visual. It's visceral trying not to look too far ahead 'cause because that's what gets us into trouble whether it's estimates or just trying to think well. How can i make this maintainable five years from now you can't you have no the idea what the world's gonna be five years from now and whatever you guess you're gonna be wrong so that's sort of the it's kinda the wrong path to go down to say what can i do to make this maintainable. I think it's better to say well. What can i do to make it replaceable because and admit i don't know what the landscapes can look. Look like you know this many years from now so i very much like the idea of trying to tell people to avoid fortune telling yeah so i'm wondering for folks who are you're new to coding new to programming. Maybe haven't started coating quite yet. People who are non programmers. Would you feel like they can get from this book or is above the recommend to folks folks who haven't quite gotten started yet. Surprisingly we've gotten a lot of comments and a lot of feedback from people who aren't developers who aren't coders who have gotten quite a lot out of it in fact when one of our employees at the bookshelf who who runs all production who's not a coder read through it and said. Did you know this kind of makes me want to me so yeah. It can certainly be be inspirational. It doesn't actually have to be coating either because i i would say that. I don't know just top my head eighty percent of the tips. Even the ones with code in them are actually applicable outside area of conan you. You just have to kind of like you know. Change will y- occurrences of programming language into scripting like writing a script or just some other activity because fundamentally fundamentally what we're talking about throughout the whole book is mechanisms for gathering feedback making sure you're on track. How do you communicate with other people how to communicate with yourself. How do you solve problems. You know i guess we could probably take the book and check out all the programming stuff and out a few cartoons. Antony hinted into one of those airports airports walk yeah so with this release. What are you hoping happens kind of result kind kind of impact. Are you hoping comes from this book. I think i'm certainly hoping that it puts it into a place where it can continue to be helpful to people because is i you know certainly i think one of the concerns was as the years go by and it gets further and further out of date and harder for people to understand what we're talking about because because the examples don't make any sense you know you've got people who've who've never seen you know <hes> dial phone a rotary phone you know for example or but these things persistent our language right so we say roll down the car window or dial. The phone ain't been dials for you know a fair while now but at some point that kind of stuff falls away okay and then you just read it and it's like it's like reading a foreign language. It's like i don't understand this anymore. So the there's enough semantic drift over time that it would eventually not be helpful to anyone so i'm certainly hoping that by bringing this up to date now this gives it at least another twenty years where people can read it it and understand the lessons from it and it can be helpful to them and you know as they've told us. Previously this launched my career. This changed my career. I quit my job over this. I got the new job over this. I want them to keep having those experiences and still having this be useful to them. I think i i would hope among other things. The book sparks discussion. I think that there are areas that are not necessarily technical that we really don't talk about and and i know a lot of people have like clubs where they read the book. I'm really hoping that those discussions look at areas like ethics and responsibility responsibility as a very serious thing because i think in a way the last twenty years have been the twenty years of agility. I a hope in a way the next twenty is when we kinda grow up a bit and you know we start taking responsibility for what we're doing. My biggest i hope to be honest is didn't screw it up because it's really okay. This is gonna sound somewhat immodest right but when you write a book that so well received received doing a second version the only place you can go down. I would rather not go too far down so yeah well. I know people are very excited about. I remember seeing via the tweet i think from you dave and retweets god replies at god aww people are very excited about this new release for sure now at the end of every episode we ask ask our guest to fill in the blanks three very important questions. Are you ready to fill in the blanks. You go first any all right. I'll i'll go first. What what are your. What's your favorite color now number. One worst advice i've ever received is i think the worst professional fashionable advice i was. I was young and dumb and it was my second third job something like that and at the time it was customary to go through a head hunter her and the head hunter found this position and i was i was waffling on it because it kind of looked good from a distance but there were things things that just you couldn't put your finger on but kinda getting a little red flag little <hes>. I'm not so sure about that so i asked the guy as an earnest ernest young impressionable lad and he said oh it's a good salary. I'd take it and i did and it turned out that was that was not a good move. <hes> it was a disastrous position the entire division from the v._p. On down got laid off within a year. After after i started they closed the whole place down and there was there were other horror stories some of which have made it out into various anecdotes but i did not trust that little the inner instinct that said <hes> you might wanna look a little harder at this and i kind of took you know took it face value so yeah listen to your intuition kids well yeah but the the real more of that story is higher andrew hunt and your company goes out of business guaranteed dave. What about you. I guess mine is actually kinda similar but different because we were in the hungry as we took on every single project we could find wind and so i got to play with so many different technologies and problem domains and everything because they said yes to everything so that was great and they grew and grew grew and they go to a certain size and i kind of got a bit yeah. <hes> it's kind of like i could do something different so i went and i left that company adjoins another one from the wall and the original company said hey you know what you're getting into a certain age where people can't be technical anymore four and so we want you to come back as manager they made up some bogus position for me and i came back as a quote manager because because i was too old to be technical and i hated every minute of it people generalize and then give advice based on generalization rotation always bad number two my first coding project was about why i professional paid for real coating project had had to do with manufacturing and specifically inventory inventory management and that was significant because all of a sudden you get at that real real world shock right so you're in the pristine elegance of your code where you get this much in you. Get this much out everything balances. It's all all clean. It's beautiful. It's nice and then you get to the real world where that little number in your program doesn't match what's in the warehouse <hes> why well at dozen reasons you know shrinkage. They call it. Somebody made off with it. Somebody counted wrong. Somebody put it in the wrong bin. Somebody called the wrong wrong thing. It's in the wrong warehouse. It's all the sort of of human error that would creep in and suddenly you're very pristine. Pluses else's in minuses in math. Don't matter that's that's not the real world so yeah that was that was an early experience of <hes> <hes> the differences between the world is we would like it to be from the view of our code versus the <hes> sometimes ugly realities that are out there david diane my very first big programming job walls in basic wasn't actually a paid job. It was a project we were using a mainframe in computer to run our code and each person was given a total of five files they could store computer and that was clearly not enough so i wrote this is so many scary words in his one phrase a self modifying basic program <hes> actually stored files inside his own source code so that was like it later became century and it's now he's third child but that's number three one thing. I wish i knew when i first started to code. Is i kinda. Wish in hindsight that something had been popular at the time that would have been maybe turbo lisp for instance you know something that would expose you to higher level constructs earlier and i think that's still kind of a a bit of a problem if you look at curricula and how we teach programming i'm not convinced we're doing it particularly well. I think this might beetroot industries you kind of mirror how the industry progressed well you start with this then you add that then you add this other things well. That's how we got here. That's not not necessarily the best place to start these days so i definitely wish i started off that i had been exposed to higher level concepts. It's sort of earlier on or maybe even first and then from there gone down and learned more of the basics of how that magic came to be when my first started out. I was a bit of a tumbleweed in that. I would go whatever way the wind was blowing and i had a blast doing it like i said that first the company i was cutting so many different things in so many different systems and it was just really really good fun us exciting. There was also a bit of a rush and i was getting rewarded by all short-term hits you know of hey look networks now. Let's go do something totally different over here and as a result i kind of never really sat down and thought about what do i wanna. Do i just did it. I don't know what that would change. I notice a few decisions. I made it would definitely have changed. Had i verbalize the kind of things that i wanted to do and knowing that you would never actually actually do them. Necessarily i mean i would never have said hey. I want to write a book but the idea of at least taking some control early on i think would have been gene beneficial. Well thank you both so much for being on the show and talking about your book and your re-release. I hope it goes really well. Thank you so much for having us. I mean we we love getting out and talking about this and and you know try to explain where we came from and why we think this is important and why people like it and you you know. I hope they keep liking. This episode sewed was edited and mixed by levi sharp. You can reach out to us on twitter at co newbies or send me an email. Hello code newbie dot org join us for our weekly twitter chats. We've got a wednesday wednesday chapter nine kim eastern time and weekly coating check in every sunday at two pm eastern time on the podcast took w._w._w. Dot co dot org slash podcast things listening to see you next week.

Dave twitter programmer professor software engineer developer asher iran dallas ibm ibm dot rhode cody montauk
Episode 106  Pragmatic Progs Andy Hunt & Dave Thomas

The 6 Figure Developer Podcast

45:36 min | 1 year ago

Episode 106 Pragmatic Progs Andy Hunt & Dave Thomas

"Name hello and welcome to the six-figure developer podcast podcast where we talked about new and exciting Technologies Professional Development Clean Code career advancement and more. I'm John Calloway. I'm Clayton Hunt and I'm John Ash with us. Today is Andrew Hunt and David Thomas. Anti and Dave wrote the pragmatic programmer to help their clients create better software and rediscover the joy of coating. The Newly Revised Twentieth Anniversary Edition is now available on their our website Prog dot com welcome Indian. Dave well thank you. Thanks thanks for having US delighted to be here so before we get started into the the media things would you guys can give us a little bit of an introduction about yourself. Thousands and sort of like how you got started in development to begin with well I'm Dave Thomas and I have been programming now for. I have no idea how many years forty five years or something and I started Pergama simply because my school route things for me to do at the end of the year so they sent me across the road to local technical college and I kinda beat attested the I think it was the first year they had run a a level in computer science. which is kind of a-level is sort sort of national set of exams that you take age eighteen versity precursor and so. I was sitting in the Technical College programming in basic on off thirty three teletype punching paper tape and then once it was all punched. I connect at one hundred ten board to do the aboard. That's the people out there. That's about a zillion times slower than the slowest instant connection today it just literally ten characters the second so we would upload paper tape and run up basic programs up on a mainframe somewhere and I just totally fell in love changed my major from mathematics to computer science and really the rest is some form of history so I got started. I got got hooked in the mid to late seventies kind of timeframe a we had a teletype with with actual paper on it and everything no paper tape ape though came a little bit later so I I missed the paper tape experience but it was a teletype and I got hooked because there was there. Was this little a a little book out. I think radio shack the described large scale integration technology and integrated processor chips in how you know it was one of these future is GonNa be great kids kind of jetsons sort of sort of thing and I you know dumb young kid. I kind of fell for it as like well. This is this this is like star Trek Right. You know we can have ill computers that aren't the size of a house and you'd actually have access to and you can make do things now now. At the time all we really could do like print out pictures of Mr Spock on the teletype using asterisks which was pretty cool you know for for the Lunar Lander and you know the the sort of thing but you know the the the premise of it really hooked me. It's like okay. This is this this is. GonNa Happen this thing and I can get in on the ground floor. so that that really just attracted me you know right out of the gate and I started learning earning started playing with a I think sixty five to Assembler was the first program language dug into little see basic. Maybe you know than the the marvelous nece that was turbo row Pascal when that that came out you know because it had a built in ID with wordstar key map on it that was brilliant still faster than in this you know multi Giga dueled. CPA Quad core nonsense. I've got here by you know with all these stupid just give me a memory memory mapped video video and boom. You can just bang characters out. It was delightful at a half meg right. I mean the clock speed you. Could you could hand crank these things right. The clock speed was so low but yeah but that's how that's how I got started in. It's been a however many years as thirty five plus years for years in and I'm still trying to figure it out to a one of the one of these days. We'll learn how this actually works so speaking of figuring out what what are what are you could have these days. What what do you what really drives you from day to day so I'm still looking into the elixir programming language simply because I think the future there's definitely going to be both concurrent and functional and Elixir underlying just happened to be both I. It's it's fun it would be. I'm having fun with it also kind of thinking. This isn't quite where I want to be and but nowhere exists yet that I found this better her it's. It's got a really cool story but it's still tends towards creating larger applications than I would personally like. It's it's not it's not required to be that way but it kind of falls out that way and I would like to see something where a bit more like you know kind of Lambda cloud but you know with a bit more than just the ability to run code so I'm playing around with different ways of trying to do that and see boltholes out. That's really cool so I have a hopefully unique vantage point at least an unusual vantage point from running our pragmatic bookshelf publishing company. I'm sort of sitting at the headwaters. I get see what people are passionate about out. You know what we get. Proposals on people are what are they talking about at conferences. What's new. What's exciting. What's old what's boring. You know who's completely worn out by the latest latest javascript framework that just came out three hours ago that now everyone has to us. You know this this sort of thing so it's it's a cliche to say well. I've got my finger on the pulse also the industry You really can't do that anymore. Because the industry is like an octopus you'd you'd need one hundred arms to take all the pulses on all the limbs that are are going out every which way but we do manage to sort of stay ahead of what the leading edge people are thinking where they headed where they board board with. What's what's interesting. What's coming next and that's a that's a kind of a fun game to play okay. Why are there all these new javascript frameworks coming out in in such quick succession. Why does you know Hello World in react. Bring in whatever it is ten thousand modules or some some ridiculous number. These are clearly problems that as an industry we haven't solved yet. We're still searching. We're still experimenting so to me. That's that's the interesting part is sort of that you. Oh getting out there on the edge trying to figure out okay you know their stuff. We know how to do really well. We can make crops in. HP rails wherever okay we got that down awesome but there's more than that so what's next. How do we figure this out. How do we figure this out and do it in such a way that we don't blow our own toes off off in the process because we're really good at that right. You know it's it's. It's a simple joke about your C. Plus plus. It doesn't blow your your toe off. It gives you like a machine gun in something that something some elaborate setup but yeah I mean we've got phenomenally powerful tools compared to you know making pictures of Mr Spock on the Tele Typewriter you know we've graduated to phenomenal power with our tooling and and cloud-based builds and distribution and currency currency and Yada Yada but what are we doing with that. How many security holes are we leaving open. How many privacy violations we enabling. There's a lot more in writing on what we're doing these days and you know to me. That's that's all interesting because that that to me is what I full stack quote. Unquote developer really is concerned people like Oh. I'm full stack right. I can write Java script and I can write you know Rubio or something on the back end Java while k. That's Kinda Kinda the middle full stack goes down from Assembly Land Assembly language and gates up to GDP are an international treaties and and that's the that's the stack baby and the other thing is kind of interesting to me related to antigens said was that when I use current software so for this being developed by people today I'm kind of shocked at how the dependencies have become I mean fundamentally ridiculous and it's not just jobs. Kurt doing some some homes nation stuff at the moment and a couple of the frameworks that I'm using a written in python and the instructions for integrating something into them are it's just like the old days like to twenty years ago when compiling doing something for Lennox involved at least a three day expedition into downloading a wrong version compiling ope kernel patch required etc tricks every cetera make make install. It was easy but it's it's. We're back to that day with those days you know literally. I spend days playing around with various options and suddenly a person's life and I haven't got the faintest idea why the question I was going to ask is why why do you what do you. I think this is. I think it's because everybody for first of all people are told that they shouldn't write it if it already exists I and so if they needed a function to add two numbers they don't write April's be they go and find some adding library somewhere include that left S. pad cough cough. I mean that's a little bit facetious but I seriously see people including thousand line multiples into their code to do into lines worth of work. The trouble is when they do that what they're doing is buying just both themselves but everybody uses that code a whole bunch of heartache nick because in those things that you bring in that brings other things in and they bring other things in and eventually one of them won't work with language version one two three four whatever it might be and the whole house of cards comes tumbling down so. I think one of the issues that we need to address is to try to stop people will help people not create these dependency spider webs and instead to look at how to decouple code improperly to show why micro services hasn't become no services and why people out writing all the code that way but that would certainly be could stop. I've always founded a thing. You know you get excited about a new language and you dig in kind of at the language level and it's beautiful right. It's elegant. It's like this nice bath cold water of just refreshing logic and it's just so elegant and it's awesome and you know you're loving it and then you move out from sort of the sphere of influence of just the language itself into the tooling the environment the package manager. It's interactions with the os all your won't. Spaghetti testing framework testing frameworks and all of a sudden right or in deployment. Let's not forget deployment because everyone does you know you get to this point. Wait on this beautiful wonderful pristine experience. You're having is now not that at all. It's it's a mess and and you're sitting there. They were saying you're struggling to get this version to work with that version and OH. I'm doing this on a raspberry. Pi and that thing this particular Niculae chip or I don't have enough ram or somebody didn't anticipate this scenario so now I can't use the Bluetooth driver at the same time I need the you whatever frostbite thing and you know you that wonderful euphoria of a beautiful claim language is now back to the same old slog. Let's actually really a good point because I know I've I've been caught a few times now. Where I get like three days into something so frustrating say screw this is Jim Framework and you go back and this new framework yeah works but then eventually three days back to exactly the same point. You're in the first time around so it's it's like a little bit like like that stone soup chip we have you know it starts out nice and easy and then you don't notice the gradual changes in the how it gradually gets. Honda Hotter and hotter until you find yourself stationary. 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It seems to be that there's an expanding and contracting in technology in software in particular that we start with a particular set of languages that were comfortable with we discover those those new shiny bits and we go off in a different direction and find out all the wonderfulness that new technology has to offer and then and we we get to a roadblock miles down the road and then we kind of contract back to our our comfort zones in bring the the lessons that we've learned back to particular languages. That's why I think like the Java script fatigue in the number frameworks and libraries out there and and people do react and angular and view and and all these different things things in going separate ways but then now they're they're starting to communicate and share the lessons learned in that no maybe you shouldn't bring in sixty five thousand packages ages on a create react up an interesting point that you make their about comfort zones because I I think that's kind of the heart of the problem I mean we we used to say in the old days well for some definition of old days that you would get folks new to the industry who'd may be only had a few years experience agreeance who would actually never experienced a successful project. They only worked on a couple of these large enterprise death march quagmire kind of Zang's and didn't have anything really to compare that to to know that this could be better or this should be better that was that was normal to them right and we kinda see even the same something now. It's very easy to get pigeonholed in some particular job where you've only got a very narrow range of experience so all you yeah no is Java an it's things or PHP or whatever whatever the environment happens to be back in the first edition of pragmatic programmer we he made the bold suggestion you should go out and learn a new language every year to help. Keep your skills up. Look at different ways of solving problems different approaches and some some feedback we got was well. That's what you do after the first three years Martin Lawrence CCS plus. You know what else what else donald a curly really brace languages. I mean that was really funny but it's it's kind of a telling comment because there was a time when you could read something like Byte magazine or Dr Dobbs Journal and really get a handle on most of the breath of the whole industry and know that a look they're using small talk in banking on Wall Wall Street. They're using erling telecom. They're using what whatever somewhere else so. You had a a better grasp I think of the the actual breadth of industry and that's that's seems to be kind of gone now. You know it. It's so compartmentalized so balkanised people get into their little. Rut and right. They'll introduce themselves it. Was You know I'm a react developer. I used to make fun of people were saying Oh. I'm a Java developer. Whatever that's got an even worse now. We're down to like whatever you know popular framework of the day and that's become their identification. It's a yellow. I'm react now. You're not you're a problem solver. Sometimes I question that though I've I've seen blended developers who who they really are just react developer and they don't know they don't know anything outside of that scope if you were to show them a pattern that's forty years old but it's not something used in react. It's a blow their minds. You know not not just react but you know it just we've become so compartmentalized and the the life span of developers doesn't seem to be long enough to to actually like pass down lessons learned. I was reading some papers by Dykstra and I'm I'm reading the paper and it's like we're. We're dealing with the same thing now as like sixty seventy years later like why why haven't learned anything. It's funny you say that because I be doing doing exactly the same thing I'm putting together a coal some programming languages and I went back and I read a whole bunch of Dr original papers and his structured per his structured programming papers or essays order and you're absolutely right. I mean all of those early. People were solving the problems that we are still solving today so my question then to the three of you is. How do we fix that. How do we I mean we all the probably the only industry on creative industry. which is right only right? We never ever read anything else. We just go out there in encode. How how do we fix that you mentioned Dykstra. I mean one of my favourite papers of all time was the I think it was his Turing Award lecture where he talks about being the very humble programmer and you know not trusting yourself you know and doing things like we would do now with with unit testing and feedback to confirm from your decisions confirm your understanding of the problem which is absolutely critical and that's not what they teach in college university. They teach hey the compiler pilot accepted it or the interpreter accepted what route ship it. You're good. You're golden so we have a number of forces. I think that kind of breed this sort of false confidence offi- that hey I can issue a set of procedural instructions. It'll make the turtle go around or the compiler except I'm a programmer. I'm good I'm done I I you know I don't need to go learn anything else. I've got this and of course there's a little bit more than that. I think that's one of the reasons why the program advantage program was so we didn't plan this. It was wildly successful. We had no idea when we're putting together. We were just trying to help our clients out at the time but but it became very very successful very very seminal because we broach on some of these other topics and very much hit the idea that you're not as smart as you think you are. I know I'm not all right and and try to get around that sort of of false confidence that you know hey you can write a tactically correct line of code whoopie you know. Dave's mom can probably do that by now from reading the rails book. That's kind of a low bar. We got this all this other others. Excuse me talking about and I think I sure she writes delightful rails APPs but you know it's there's all this other stuff and you have to be distrustful of your own. Judgment Your own code. That's why we do U. Unit testing that's why we get feedback from the users from the customer because we're not certain so we need to get this level of feedback all the time and that's that's a major the theme I think it sort of runs through the book I'm in my twenty th year of professional software development and in the first three or four five maybe more years. I was essentially an employee I would show up in the morning. Hopefully on time I would do a fair amount of work and then leave at the end of the day and go about my life but it was around year three or four or five that someone introduced me to the pragmatic programmer and I have my rather warren coffee here and there are still issues. I'm comfortable solving problems in in a variety of different languages in a variety of different ways but it's finding out how to solve a particular problem or digging out what the problem that needs to be solved is and I happen to flip open the book to a well-worn page that I spent a lot all the time on it was the the requirements pit and a quote here saying don't gather requirements dig for them. I think getting requirements is still bill very difficult to do. Solving a particular problem is relatively easy but it's understanding what problem needs to be solved and one of the problems there there is there is an assumption that there is something called a requirement like out there somewhere. It may be hidden. There's a requirement and if I could just find it then I can deal with us us once but the reality is that doesn't exist because nobody whether your user or developer or whatever else actually knows one hundred percent what they want a user hasn't paid and they would like to see that go away and what happens is that we we develop as we press them saying you know I need something which is more contractual than that because you're going to sign off on it and then at the end all produce it and then you pay me and the customer typically basically will sign anything at that point because they really don't care. They don't understand the details. It doesn't matter to them what they really want is to get this problem solved along the way as you start to help them with that their understanding of the problem changes and so what they want to get done changes so there is no way that you can actually go out there and find requirements and then implement against them. It's just not possible and thus not computing thing I mean we had had a removal and the guy said well what size tiled you want. We were like Oh yeah and so he brought in different size tiles and putting down on the floor and we went oh that one but it's unless you see people are really really bad and he says you know we really really bad at predicting the future and that includes our own future often. We have to see it. We have to see examples and what will we were really really good at saying is. I don't like that and so you have to see being a lot of stuff like that. I don't like that until you find the goes. Oh yeah actually that might work and that that's that's a fundamental misconception I think I think that that you know you asked awhile back. Why is it we we have failed to learn from prior art. Why don't we up back reading DYKSTRA. Why aren't we you know learning from things. There's some real fundamental misunderstandings about the industry in about how software works and this is a big one because writing a writing software for writing a program is an act of CO creation with the user the sponsor. It's not here's requirements. Go off in type some stuff and send me the bill and you know a lot of times. You'll see folks. Well building softwares like it's like building a house. There's you know there's an architect and his plans and move in. I've had a house built. It don't work work like that right. We came on site. We came on site every day not to be jerks about it but just because it was kind of cool. Hey Watch the house get built and band oar. Look that staircase is backwards and you know the top of the stairs is going into a blank wall okay. That's that's not gonNa work for me. You know I mean we we. We found bugs errors and omissions. Whatever every single day when you when you see that stuck his news correct you may say is she looking at in the flesh yeah yeah way that's not the way I envisage it yeah exactly exactly and that that happened to us plot with the and I think this is a good analogy with with the flow of the house. It's like Oh you know. We thought we wanted that doorway there. It seemed to make sense on the plans but when you actually experience liens the three D. space and you're actually doing your workflow. You know through the environment. It's like oh now. That's not going to work. I'M GONNA keep banging into this closet the door or the lights which is in the wrong place or whatever you know something that you wouldn't realize until you're actually sort of walking through the space for real. It's like Oh that's not. That's not gonNA work and that's exactly what the requirements conversation needs to be. It's shared learning as you're exploring the space that you're building together. They're saying well. This sounded like a good idea but this is not going to work out for our for our workflow. This is not convenient or whatever it might be about workflow just reminded me. Have you seen seen that movie about Ray KROC and stocking McDonald's he buys his Burger joint and he realizes that it's really inefficient and everything else so he closes. It down takes the staff of two. I think it was like a basketball court and they draw and chalk on the ground. The equipment has to be used and they spend literally an entire week pretending to make burgers and then when it doesn't move the equipment around on the on the clydes and try again until they actually have a flow where basically it comes in one size abundance of meat and comes out the other side is a burger and it's just really impressive really instructive to watch and again. They have to do it for real. They couldn't just like planet. That's a really good point right. Because what were they doing right. They were prototyping it. They were getting feedback from a quick prototype and and we use words carelessly we say well. You should prototype your code. Debt doesn't always mean you're throwing something together in in Python or org or a demo and photoshop or something like that you know it could be posted notes on a whiteboard. It could be chalk outlines on the floor. I'm picturing sort of bodies when you said Chalk Outline. That'd be a different APP. I guess I interpreted dumps. Hey if it works works that's all that's the heart of pragmatism right. If it works for you you know go go in peace. You know roll with it. So how do you get the customer or the client enter the the the the user to buy into that that pragmatism two things first of all if you can explain that to them in a non-confrontational on on scary way quite often it just makes sense you can start telling stories that justified a business double. My favorite is that quite often. A customer is given one shot at a budget to create something and so they will throw everything they can think of love into this project because they can't come back and get more money for it later on and so you end up with these these Frankenstein projects that really will never work just because there's no cohesion to the Matsuo ever and if instead you to say to this guy listen we're not. GonNa spend all your budget. We're going to spend two weeks with the O. Budget and then another two weeks worth and another two weeks worth of whatever your period is and at the end of each of those we will deliver something that you can use quite often often what you find and you can tell us the customers and they understand maybe halfway through the plan time you have given them eighty percent of the value they wanted and that point they get to say you know what let's stop here and use the remaining time to get eighty percent on another project so from their point of view. It's a win the other way of doing it. was you kind of stone soup into the organization so I had a guy who was working at a very large company like tens the thousands of developers. He was a perfect lead and his particular team finished a project had been early and so they were on the bench because there are still waiting for the next one to come through and so he said to his boss. You know we're not just board. You've got to think interesting we can do just like off off the cuff and his boss said well as prejudice benign on. Oh novela two years and it was supposed to take eighteen months and right now is about five percent complete. You know it's just a disaster. Could you have a look at it so he took his team and stole a conference room and started attacking this project at the end of the month. They had something ridiculous like sixty eighty percent of it done and the boss said so. How did you do that and the Guy Said Oh. We were lucky and the guy said Oh. I don't believe that so he said to his boss will give us another one and see what happens opens and so he gave them another project and same thing happened so at this point the boss specially system okay you will tell me the secret here or else. You know I'm going to go kill US something okay well. We're not going to tell you secret as such but because it won't work if other people just do it but instead what we'll do is we'll take our twelve people and was split them into two and you will find twelve other people and will end up with two teams of twelve well where six them done this before and six of them have them and we will show them what we're doing and that what they were doing back then was x. p. and and it just worked for them and that spread. I mean basically it's it's a group. Palmas it exponentially I guess so it doubled every in whatever it was months and pretty soon. They had hundreds of people doing X. Pain management were begging them to do it more because it worked and I think that's the other key point. There's no point in trying to convince someone to do something if it doesn't help them but if it does help them it kinda convinces them automatically and this this is where you run into trouble with a lot of these sort of name branded big heavy processes consulting groups try to sell you know expensive. You need need a ton of consultants and it's this big giant package and as a developer. You're looking for the poster as well. You need a lot of wall for the poster and all all the figures and and looking at that going okay. I'm not seeing the value to myself here. This looks like you know pain with extra steps the why why would I why would I do this whereas something like like. XP which is focusing on small set of solid we'll established technical practices. You can actually get personal results from it does work if you do it. It's always frustrated me that that level of technical practice is not really taught in colleges or universities my my son's in college at the moment and when he when he first started and was showing me as freshman courses and even his sophomore courses and even into the beginning of junior year. It's like okay. This says where's the meat. Where's the worst stuff you actually need to know. idea of an advanced course a lot of the time is compiler design. It's a lovely thing you should know how to do that. That's sort of important but the world really doesn't need you to go out and build compilers. Might I would be nice is if you knew how to use get if you knew how to work on a team if you knew how to interview and talk with a user or sponsor to help understand their problem. There's some there's some core. People skills hard skills. Some people who call themselves the hearts you need that you you need the technology skills to be able to produce code. get it out the door. Get it running it. You know in a reliable manner. You know you kinda any need both sides of that and yes you do need you know theory you know finite state. AUTOMATA and whatever the sort of things data structures that you take take at school but you Kinda need all of this and I'm still disappointed that most not all but most UNDERGRAD programs are trying to turn out computer scientists not developers well. They're a university is an academic institution and what you're asking for more is like a England nickel a technical college trade school. I don't think that's demeaning at toll. I think that the world needs more trade. Schools in the world needs more ships. I think if what you want to do is become a developer than and you're learning a trade. It's a trade that has technical considerable technical parts to it but you'll learning a trade and I think maybe the time time has come to separate the two out. I mean to some extent the boot camps kind of do that and I am. I am increasingly impressed with the quality of the BOOT camps but there it still relies on the people participating doing a lot of background work on their own if they're going to be successful long term so the needs to be something just a a little bit beyond that to to round people out yeah and the other boot camps are filling a definite need because what you see at vo-tech schools trade. Schools is is more on networking. You know you know security issue SYS Admin. It's not really development per se but sort of the you know other tech check that you need to know to keep everything running so yeah. There's definite kind of a hole in the environment. They're the BOOT camps are coming in and starting to fill but what you know. I think it's a great idea. I love it but it's it's kind of baby. Step still we're not. We're not really quite there yet one of the things we wanted to ask you before we we let you guys go back to work. The pragmatic programmer came out twenty years ago and you are releasing new version of the book what is in the new version version of the book and why should even someone who has the older copy. Why should they get the new copy. It's completely different and I say that somewhat facetiously but it's all it is completely different. It's got maybe thirty percent completely new content but dave and I went through and figured. I don't think there's a single page. That doesn't have changes on it. you know we literally changed everything because it's been twenty years. That's you know no in internet years. That's that's like one of these aliens. Situat- you know civilization. That's twenty thousand years later in there. You know worshiping the floppy disk as yeah. It's been a long time. A lot has changed it and it was kind of fun. When we first started this project we went back and looked at reread. Read the book and some of our notes Kinda got back into that headset of nineteen ninety eight nine hundred ninety nine kind of timeframe. AOL was still carpet bombing people people with dial up internet. You know there was ads for Lycos saying you know this is the search engine you need us. Lycos get Lycos or get lost that was their There'a era and of course shaking their head who all took US vista versus Lycos right those were there was no google kids it wasn't there air and every time we would wax poetic about you could download new languages and experiment with this and that and you could try eiffel and Logitech and all this wonderful stuff and all the time we're capitalizing. Internet because that was the style in the day because it was the Internet right. It was big new exciting thing and right. That's little different today. You know yes. It's still a wonderful resource. You can go out and play with any language you want in a rebel in your browser. You don't need to go download all these packages and go through all this stuff you can push your coat and it's being built in the cloud in a pipeline and all the rest of that so that kind of stuff has changed the landscape of back then. Hey we gotta to work. Yay US now. It's we got it to work or the security implications occasions. What are the privacy implications. Could this be used against us. Could this be used against me. Would I willingly be a consumer of this product. I'm building in your is it something a little more nefarious than that isn't. GonNa Track every movement every time I scratch my head. Whatever that that kind of stuff? That's all different. It's a whole different world but by the same token there stuff that didn't change like us. It's it's kind of interesting that the the biggest changes in the book I think are also to do with the things that changed the least which are us developers. I mean honestly the the human side of this has been the same for thousands of years the differences that since we wrote the first edition we've both done affirmative affirmative research into the human stuff and learning models and series of conscious versus so conscious and non conscious or whatever that has worked its way into the book and so a lot of the book has kind of like just almost like incidentally a lot of suggestions to do with how to use your brain more effectively because if you look most of the best coders don't you think about coding that much. It's an so how'd you get to that state. What does it mean to be in that state. That's really important. I think because it's Kinda like teaching people how to drive by telling them. You know sort of well. Now cylinder goes up in that valve opens. People need to get to the point where they can drive without realizing the driving. That's what we tried to do. In the book awesome one of the things we ask everyone who comes on is to sort sort of speak to our listeners who are just getting started or trying to level up what what advice or words of wisdom would you kind of direct directly actually to to those people learn continuously. Don't just because you got your degree or you want through your boot camp or you. You've mastered whatever stack. You're using it work. That's nice. That's just the beginning you know if you've ever read interviews from Alon Mosque. This guy is a reading machine. He he tears through basically a book night on whatever topic is of interest. Maybe it's a maybe it's about lasers may be. It's about economic systems. Maybe it's it's about anthropology. Whatever tears through this kind of material and that's the kind of approach you need to take is just always always have that that curiosity that itch of I've always wondered. How does this work and you pull on that thread and you you figure it out? Oh I see oh wow this is a lot more complicated then I realized and you dig into that and and on and on but it's it's a continuous process right you never stop some folks you'll complain about the the rate of change and there was some the famous paperback when about how the amount of human knowledge used to double like once every century and then it got down to about once every twenty five years and the latest estimate. I think from IBM was that the amount of human knowledge in twenty twenty will double every twelve twelve to thirteen hours. Oh Well No. That's not the scary part scary part. Wait for it. The scary part is that as we're experiencing this right now this is the slowest rate of change will experience in our lifetimes. It's Montana increasing. It's just going to get faster so the the only solution to that the only cure is you have to keep learning. You've got to keep researching looking up stuff figuring things out and learning a we're very surprised going back and reading. A lot of the tips in the first edition of pragmatic programmer had a very object oriented oriented focused to them. I I wasn't even I don't think really conscious of that. At the time right you know the fish never sees the water swimming in it's just these are coating tips coating techniques. You can go back and look at it. It's like well. No it's not really generally applicable. That's a very oh flavored approach way of looking at it and there's more more to the world's in that right so that's kind of the thing you need to keep your mind open. Keep a beginner's mind. Look at other technologies look at other industries and realize that what you're doing now is just that it's what you're doing now. It's not what you're going to be doing two years from now or five years from now so what he said but I I mean I think that's really important but if I was talking to someone just new to the intra I think also tried to be a little bit less scary. Yeah I know I know where's the fun in that but I would basically say. Welcome what you are about to get into is it's probably the most rapidly changing endeavors that human beings ever been involved in but it is also possibly the most world changing ranging in the what you are doing increasingly. Is You ought designing the world. The world is a moving in the direction. Shen where developers are basically coming up with solutions quite often before the problems even realized and that is an incredible gift. It's also incredible responsibility but I like to think that the most people come develops 'cause I likes to create stuff and I like to to see people using their work and I think that what we are doing right now is we are having entire planet using our work and and it's up to us to make sure they're using it for the good to add one one comment to that you know there's there are some corners of our world that engage in at least some level of sort of gate keeping that. Oh you can't be a programmer because you don't have a degree or you know the programming language. You knew you know is inferior carrier. It's not a real programming language or this or that or you know from the north. You're from the South Way. It doesn't matter what some kind of `gate-keeping says you can't be a programmer that I find absolutely counterproductive because the reality is we need all the help we can get. I want everybody to learn at least the basics basics of how software works and how to write code. I don't want to exclude anyone from this experience because we need we need them. We need their input. We need their help. We need all hands to the pump as they say very cool If people wanted to follow you strictly twitter or social media Where would they be able to do that? This is Andy without the the the accent you can find me on this. You have a very strong American accent accent. My homepage is a tool shed dot com and I've got a now page there that explains whatever harebrained experiment or concoction action. I'm working on currently which could be anything from the Skeleton Chucker to couple of science fiction novels to an album of music to whatever whatever latest fun toys and on twitter you can find me at pragmatic. Andy and I am practive. Pr AG CD AP anywhere that I am and you can look more about me a Prac Dave Dot mi well. Well Dave Andy. Thanks so much for coming on this a lot of fun. Thanks so much for having US absolutely pleasure that was Andy Hunt Dave. Thomas and Ian Dave wrote the pragmatic programmer to help their clients create better software and rediscover the joy of coding. The Newly Revised Twentieth Anniversary Edition is now available in their website. Brag PROG DOT DOT COM. If you like this episode please rate and review on itunes find show notes blog posts and more at six figure dot com and be sure to follow us on twitter order at six hundred have this has been another episode of the six-figure developer podcast helping others reach our potential. I'm John Calloway. I'm Clayton Hunt

developer programmer Ian Dave US Mr Spock John Calloway Dave Thomas Clayton Hunt Technical College twitter Dave Andy Andrew Hunt
105: Conscious Millionaire Mindset: Escaping Drama

Conscious Millionaire Mindset ~ Want High Performer Secrets of Millionaires?

11:44 min | 11 months ago

105: Conscious Millionaire Mindset: Escaping Drama

"Welcome to the conscious millionaire mindset show episode number one. Oh five welcome to conscious millionaire. The number one might show show on the planet for conscious entrepreneurs and CEOS is time to turn up your financial thermostat so you can experience financial freedom join. JV Today as he coaches you'd you'd think act and achieve like a conscious millionaire. You're listening to the conscious millionaire network her by over twelve and listeners and one hundred ninety countries now join your host. GD Chrome the third. The conscious billionaire mentor master. In coach Speaker and author of the number one international bestseller conscious. Millionaire grow your business by making a difference. This is J. B. and I want to welcome you to the conscious millionaire mindset training because that's really what this is. It's a training for you to learn how to have the type of mindset that you're going to be able to grow Your Business and the fastest most profitable way by making the biggest impact. Because I really believe leave. That's what you WANNA do today. We're going to be talking about escaping. Drama is a very different topic than I've ever done before. But it hit me that this is so important because if you think about your business so many businesses and so many entrepreneurs on a daily basis experience experience a lot of drama and that drama is robbing you. It's robbing you time and energy and resources creativity innovation insights. That you could be having that would allow you to impact your clients and customers in a bigger way and allow view to turn that into bigger revenues into bigger net profits and bigger profits that you could be utilizing to both grow your business larger impact more our people make more profit and take that profit out of the business to provide for the life that you want for yourself for your family invest for a your future the trauma his literally driving you crazy if you're someone right now who is experiencing a lot of drama In Your Business I wanted especially speak to you. I want to help you work through that. In just the next few moments set up a plan I and realize what that's actually costing you in the benefit of getting out of it so the first key to escaping drama is is for you to define how is drama showing up in your business. Or How's it showing up for you in your life as an entrepreneur. Now that could include lewd your personal life. What I found is typically people who have drama one area of their life tend to have drama and other areas? Now I want you to define fine. What are the ways that that drama is showing up? What's happening is that fights that you have is it? Disagreements is it systems that don't really work correctly and then all of a sudden you have fires that you've got to be putting out rather than spending time and energy on building is it things feeling like they're disorganized. There's drama that comes from just feeling overwhelmed on a daily basis like there's too much work work there's not enough steps to tell you wind do what it all feels kind of disorganized and all that leads to a lot of stress so the first thing is list out these specific ways the drama is showing up in your business and showing up especially in your life as an entrepreneur enterpreneur. Now I want you to know and this. This may be a little bit hard to swallow. But I'm telling you the truth because I love you and I want you to hear this is that drama is a pattern if it's showing up over and over and over again. Then you have a drama pattern. Identify unify for yourself at this key is Your Business and life as an entrepreneur right now is that low drama is it medium drama or is everything falling apart and it's high drama now once you've done that next. I want you to have an honest appraisal today. What is that costing? Let's start with your health. What is it costing in terms of the amount of stress? You're putting on your body. What is it costing you maybe with your blood pressure what is it costing you in? Truthfully impacting the number of years. And days you're going to be on this planet because if you're living in drama you're stressing your body is really high and that literally shortening your life on a day-to-day basis. It's robbing you of your future. How is it? Impacting in terms of your temperament. Are you easy to snap it people because you have so much drama in your life. How's IT impacting your sleep? If you're living in drama while you're awake there's there's a good possibility that you're living drama when you sleep as well and that shows up by waking up frequently being restless tossing and turning not being able to get a full night of seven or eight hours with a sleep waking up and you feel tired and you've got another day of drama ahead of you now what's it costing you in terms of the money you're making your business if you're living drama the systems don't all work. You're feeling overwhelm. People are snapping each other. Maybe you're just not put returning phone calls because you didn't even WanNa talk to the people instead of being present you're living in the past and future. All those things are going on. How does that impact your sales? How does it impact how efficiently and effectively actively your businesses running? How does it impact your your bottom line? How does it impact the innovation creativity that you have to create a new program programmer to create a new product or just be consciously focused and taking the right actions to get to your result? How's IT impacting acting? You even being clear about your priorities because your mind is muddled and unclear and all of that impacts the financial end end of Your Business. How's IT impacting? And costing you in terms of your relationships relationships internally with the people you work with whether they're outsourcing their intimate contractors whether their employees. How's IT impacting? You in your relationship with your customers are you able to really. We be present to listen to them to pay attention to what matters to show them your total attention and respect respect. Are you able to do that. When you're living in drama the third key to this is looking at what you would gain if you made a new decision and that new decision was this drama has gotta go? This drama is costing too much wjr. This drama is pulling me down pulling me apart pulling me in too many directions. This drama is impacting impacting me mentally emotionally physically and spiritually. And I can't live this way anymore is that were. You are with the drama in your life whether it's low medium or high. What are the benefits? Aren't the the benefits in many ways. The opposite of the cost that your health you'll have less stress in your body which that stress is one of the number one reasons people die early. You can live longer you can live with maybe not having that heart attack you can live with lower blood pressure. You can live with attention on this in around you order noise journal destroying your health that I have a special obligation impact. The money matches smiliar are now we source your standard one on air media for accelerator citizens about if you're a six or seven programs to help you find up to arrive dollars. Lights Revenue Revenue Your Business in all those interested withdrawing everybody in Sunday so naive twenty also has less stressed against running and drawing air dot. US and entrepreneurs relax. But what happens when all of a sudden you're running in millionare's in air dot com forward slash millionaire make your team. If he gave the hosts producers of the show broadcast media make no claims the strategies. I say to them you represent those of the child illegal accounting or financial identify unify on your net vestments Ugly Rama at license how to focus on eliminating eliminated for twenty type shows now information provided needed for twenty four hours. And I know what I'd love to hear from you I'd Carino health just go to conscious millionaire mindset dot com and send me a voicemail or an email the links are at the top of the page. I'm the only anyone who receive that. Let me hear from you. Tell me how this changed your view about all that drama and what new decisions you made about how you're going to live this day. Ford renewing the drama and replacing it with piece this this is Jaycee Krumlov third the conscious in our mentor. And I look forward to hearing from you and connecting with you on the next conscious millionaire. This is an important question for entrepreneurs. Hello this is Jamie Chrome. The third founder of conscious millionaire is twenty twenty the year. You want to get on the fast track to making your first million. I made my first million at age twenty five and now I wanNA help ten select entrepreneurs get on the path to to achieving. There's to apply. Text me at my cell with your name and the words I million. That number is three zero. The three six four one zero four zero one again. Text me at three zero three six four one zero four zero one next listening to conscious million immediate podcast radio network. The host producer of the show distributors and broadcast media make claims that the tragedies and information discussing show result in profit tomatoes salt and losses. The opinions advice hosts guests do not necessarily represent those are the owner staff management spend or broadcasters of the show the legal counter financial or health advice is made in the show. You're advised to see a counselor related to your business. Financial investments or other legal matters from license advisors always. It's all your physician or licensed health advisor prior to making changes in Diet Exercise Program planning any health strategies or information discussing the shows now information provided baby suitable for your situation as always take full responsibility for the decisions and actions you take including responses that they create and your health.

J. B. US Ugly Rama millionare advisor programmer producer Jamie Chrome Ford Jaycee Krumlov founder twenty four hours eight hours
On working from anywhere

Mayo Clinic Employee Experiences

11:39 min | Last month

On working from anywhere

"I might not be there but the work that I'm doing matters, it still counts regardless of where I'm doing it. In this episode, you'll hear Nikki an IT analyst programmer and Brittany and an administrative assistant discuss some of the perks and challenges of working from anywhere. I am an administrative assistant for the Enterprise Office of Access Management I just started there in March. So I tell working one day after I started I was super excited to start telemarketing I've been telling working since two, thousand, thirteen and you know at the time when I started the big plus was, hey, I get three hours back to my day that I don't have to commute and for me specifically, it was great because. having been diagnosed in my early forties with arthritis in my ankles walking around unseen meant, which is most of the downtown campus in Rochester. Dow is hard. So not having to go through that. Every day was another big quality of life change with technology and being able to afford the flexibility. You know I've got friends who? Have Daycare that they have to kind of wrap into getting their kids to someplace, and that's enabled them the flexibility to meet those needs for their family. Last year, my dad passed away and so between the time that he was inpatient somewhere and then him passing I would not have been able to be there unless I was able to work from wherever I needed. To being able to have that kind of flexibility is is crucial. I'm definitely a proponent of it for some. It's a con right. I'm not physically around my teammates that has probably been one of my biggest challenges with teleworking I. Am a very like talk it out type person when it comes to different things. So having something come up and I'm like okay. I don't have any. I can't just turn to somebody and talk to them like I'm so used to. So it's like, okay well, now I have to find him on site where I have to wait for our email reply throughout my whole life I've always had. Close, Co workers, always right there with me. So this being able to communicate with them has been hard especially starting a new job right off the bat doing teleworking, learning, how to do my new job and trying to do screen share as who know what they're talking about. But when I was first sent home I didn't have the correct skype. So I had to upgrade skype and I don't have a phone other than my personal fallen to be able to talk with them. My experience over the years I used to be. Really. Really really really self conscious about. messing someone because I don't want to unless it's an emergency, I don't want to just come out of the blue I I have to admit that was more of a personal thing of I'm sorry I don't mean to be rude or interrupt when I was a part of an HR collaboration and activity workgroup. One of the biggest things that people brought up was all those hallway conversations. Even if you're able to turn around, you know there's still the people that you bump into in the hallway and you know even if it's just personal, you know finding out. Hey, how did your kid's soccer game this weekend? It seemed like were missing out on that I know for me what helped and this might sound more a tight but it was one of those things where I know this is important to do. I need to put a reminder out there reach out to somebody every week doesn't matter who it is doesn't matter how long you chat whether it's work really not I always put a reminder in that says reach out to somebody today and it was amazing. How much that seemed to help even the other person it's like, okay I'm not having that hallway conversation to find out how you're doing personally. But Hey, I wanna make the effort I wanna I wanNA reach out to someone just Chit Chat to help kind of keep that same team building piece in place tried not to do the same person every week it's making that that personal connection to say. I recognize you're there and you're on my team and you matter. So let's chat. Agreed agreed thing to do to I. Know what the Hallway conversations were a huge thing in my old area. So just lunch break can steph we would all sit together at a table and just chat about holidays go in and what we're GonNa do this weekend and all that and just not having that. It's definitely not the same talking to my twelve year old at home. He's like Okay Model I just WanNa go out and play the. You have to be more accountable for. What you communicate, how you communicate to whom you communicate, but it's doable. You know it just takes a little more effort on our part these days and you know, of course getting over that initial. I'm sorry. It is of those things too though that I missed if I'm working on something, I used to be like, Oh, I should ask justice. So I just run off and find jets night ask a question then. I'm back in. I'd had my answer rate than in there and get more steps in I guess say than I do at home. Because Now. Even skyping somebody. I always try and figure out if I can figure it out myself without bothering somebody else. You brought up something to you said that you would walk around like your office. Do you find yourself moving around more I am a little bit. Now I know when I first started I felt like I had to be glued to my computer like glued to my skype almost make sure I'm always available. Make sure that if anybody has a question or the I am talking to them within like five seconds. But it's just not true. I need to be able to take a fifteen minute break in the morning a fifteen minute break in the afternoon just to put it away. Calm down you know. Gotten to the point now, the I will just go stand docked and sit for a few minutes clock out for lunch every day just go for a walk that's kind of biggest thing since I'm not walking at all anymore I don't have to coordinate necessarily with anybody else's lunches now so I can just go when I need to. So that is kind of my says, well, than something. I've gotten used to now. A completely hear you on that because it's the same thing for me. It was funny because I. I feel like I was such a a bad unhealthy employees when I was working on campus because I would literally sit at my desk for a couple of hours in have anything that prompted me or triggered to get up walk around move around I had hard time at first when I started teleworking. Feeling like, okay. If I'm not here, my light is not green I'm going to upset somebody and like you said, it's just it's not the case I'm actually moving are more 'cause I can't just do heads down ignore the rest of the world. because. That's just not the way working remotely works definitely like that. There's those. Those more natural breaks you can step away from work. And you're literally stepping away versus remember being on Campus A. for to go get a sandwich with someone. I'm still on campus I'm still wearing the name tag. I'm still present there I don't have to. Pay Attention. So closely to the time because instead of it, taking me twenty minutes to walk across campus to get back to my desk, it takes me a minute. It just allowed those things to kind of relax. Yeah I. Definitely feel like I have gotten more productive at home. One thing that I find that's really helpful in that helps us all stay connected even though we're doing it remotely. Is Take yourself off mute. what I mean by that is if you're chatting with someone and they say something funny be willing to take yourself off mute and laugh you know if we were in person. I wouldn't hold back I'd be busting a gut it'd be laughing so hard the hearing laughter and hearing those little interactions to me is, what helps us stick together? 'cause it's not just hearing. You know one side of what somebody's saying. You're hearing all the reactions and I think people find it really easy not to let themselves be heard zero that mute button on and you might be laughing. But no one knows that you're having that kind of reaction. That's the human part of us and we just need to I think embrace that more often it's. All the little things that we can do to keep that can -cation authentic and keep it to way. That's what helps make working remote a lot easier when we can have those reactions. That's a great tip for sure I was kind of struggling the last couple of weeks just because I've missed my office I missed by opportunity to walk around the corner and get some coffee I took one day I went back on campus mask and all and. Just. Sat On my desk and worked in God my errands done and I felt so much better after that day. Sometimes, you know you just need to have a day back on campus to reconnect with the work part of it and I know that some people that are teleworking don't have a office space Obama to if a you know need to there's always dropped in spots. It felt good to get I mail campus for even a few hours just to feel connected to mail again and feel. That you're part of that bigger picture. It is nice. You know if you live close to a Mayo campus somewhere, it's nice to get that reminder of why we're doing what we're doing. One of the things that. I do. Regularly is pay attention to the articles that get sent out. I. Honestly don't Know How some people don't read the newsletters or. Don't read articles get posted on the Internet because all of those things those are the little things that we can do to stay connected to get the reminder. Oh my gosh. This kid was able to beat this disease and it's because of the people there I'm supporting the people that are there. Own. Whether you're new to working from anywhere or have done. So for years consider sharing your experiences and tips with your colleagues.

Enterprise Office of Access Ma Dow Rochester Nikki Mayo Brittany analyst Obama programmer fifteen minute one day twenty minutes five seconds three hours twelve year