17 Burst results for "professor Goodman"
"professor goodman" Discussed on Latino USA
"We're back and we've been speaking with Professor Adam Goodman. He's the author of the recently released book, the Deportation Machine America's long history of expelling immigrants rejoined that conversation now and professor Goodman is going to walk us through how the machine is still firing on all cylinders today. It is pretty hard to ignore the role that race and EUGENICS and white supremacy play here in your book, you outline the success of something called in. It's a slur here operation wetback. This was a coordinated effort to expel tens of thousands of Mexican laborers from the country in the nineteen fifties. And you know even that name, it really shows how comfortable the government and officials have been. With, not only racist language but racist tactics. And that was pretty recent history. So when you analyze it through this lens. How does racism and white supremacy keep the deportation machine running one of the things that I realized and researching the book. Is. That the disproportionate targeting of Mexicans? Wasn't just in response to. Anti Mexican racism, but it actually played a formative role in furthering and redefine solidifying anti Mexican racism. So after the breast Sarah Program, the temporary migrant labor poem that brought four, hundred thousand or so Mexican migrant laborers to the United States on short term contracts from nineteen, forty to nineteen, sixty four. That ended after the nineteen sixty, five immigration act passed for the first time ever a cap on the number of migrants that could enter from the western hemisphere in other words, Mexicans people from the Caribbean and elsewhere. After the program ended in after the nineteen, sixty, five immigration law went into effect the country still needed to Labour's. And Mexicans continued to pry that Labor now they were considered undocumented was that change in state policy the created our problem of undocumented immigration I. Think it's entirely solvable fixable problem. Legislatively, the might not be the political will to do so but what happened in the decades ahead.
"professor goodman" Discussed on Latino USA
"Machine. America's long history of expelling immigrants through the book. Professor Goodman, explores how the machine actually works. The deportation of immigrants has been enabled and enforced by Republican and Democratic administrations alike for well over a century but it's not just a policy issue persistent fear campaigns social exclusion and threats of violence and incarceration have forced tens of millions of people out of the United States most of it through unofficial means. Goodman's research also confirmed that the vast majority of deported immigrants throughout US history have been Mexican. During the twentieth century. US. Businesses became dependent on cheap labor from Mexican immigrants and actively recruited them into the country which by the way is still happening today. In the years since the concept of an undocumented immigrant was codified through a series of federal policies. Anti. Mexican. Racism was often used to justify harsher and more punitive deportation efforts. and. It's a trend explicitly continued by the current trump administration. On. This episode of Latino USA Professor Goodman gives us a crash course on the history of migrant exploitation and expulsion from this country, and he lays out how the deportation machine is still alive and well, and running today. Professor Adam Goodman. Welcome to let you know USA.
"professor goodman" Discussed on WNYC 93.9 FM
"Of Latino Yusa, Professor Goodman gives us a crash course on the history of migrant exploitation and expulsion. From this country, and he lays out how the deportation machine is still alive and well and running today. Professor Adam Goodman. Welcome to letyou know Yusa. Thank you so much for having me Maria. So I've been reporting on deportation since the very first days of my career, and that's many decades ago. So it's kind of been my life's work to understand deportation. You're basically saying it's not just a deportation has existed. It's that there's a machinery that there's a kind of even ideology around deportation. And you basically argue that deportation has always been at the heart. Of the history of the United States, whether it's from the economy to law enforcement to stereotypes in the media, So let's kind of break that if you could, because that's a big idea. Some people are just like, wait. What are you talking about? You know We learned about the Statue of Liberty. We didn't learn that people were being deported for years over 100 years. So how has the deportation of immigrants been central to the narrative of this country? I mean, on the one hand, deportation has been used strategically to maintain an exploitable Myron Labor force. The need for migrant labor is certainly not new, and we could think back to the Irish for the mid 19th century, the Chinese and Japanese early 19th tournament, 20th Century's southern and Eastern Europeans. In that same period, And then for much of the last century Mexican migrants as all those other groups were excluded by U. S laws and policies, employers and the federal government and consumers. All of us, in other words, came to depend in large part on Mexican labor. And Mexicans were welcomed into the country as laborers, but they're not. Historically at least welcomed as full members of society. Or as citizens. The United States has deported 57 million people. Since the 18 eighties. No. Close to nine out of 10 of those 57 million deportations have been of Mexicans and that disproportionate targeting of a single group. Has also, I think had a really impact in shaping ideas of politicians and of the media, and perhaps many people in the general public as well about who is and who is not. American, so it's the bureaucratic processes as well as the need for the exploitable migrant labor force. That has drawn these real clear dividing lines. You have to kind of look at who's writing the history who's right in the The books that kids are being taught, and and then you understand the prism through which Deportation is or is not being talked about. And in fact that's one of the things that you bring up in your book, which is And this is where it gets really sinister because you talk about How hard it was to get information about deportations. And so you say, quote it was designed to leave No paper trail so well. How hard was it, in fact, to discover this information? And is that in fact part of the plan It was extraordinarily difficult, and that's part of the reason. It took me a decade to research and write this book, you know, but slowly, but surely the pieces came together. And I was able to to put together this broader history of the deportation machine. How and why was constructed and how it's operated how it's changed during the last century and a half. But your question also brings up an important point. And that's that The vast majority of deportations throughout U. S history have happened without due process. The United States Deportation machine depends on extraordinary discretionary power. It's instilled in low level agents, the state border Patrol agents minus an immigration investigators. That have the power to decide whether or not to apprehend someone and in many cases, whether or not to expel them. And we certainly have seen how and why is problematic, too, and still extraordinary power in low level officials, whether that's the police on our city streets or border Patrol agents and immigration investigators. But the deportation machine is operated based on the unilateral power of low level officials within historically racist institution. So we hear a lot about He's essentially formal deportations. These are deportations that happened after like an immigration hearing or a judicial order, But in your book, you also talk about other kinds of deportation. There's this term, you know, self deportation, which is basically when people just there like exhausted they're fed up. And so they leave the country. So can you talk a little bit more about these other kinds of expulsions? Well, we hear about most in the news or the form of deportations. These were the 400,000 deportations a year under the Obama administration that made the news so often. But these are but a small sliver off the total number of explosions from the United States. Now they carry with them harsher consequences sometimes extended or indefinite periods in the tension. As well. Lifetime bans are multi year upto lifetime bans on returning to the U. S. And what immigration officials have done is leveraged. These harsh penalties that are associated with formal deportations to coerce people into voluntary departure now put voluntary departure in quotes because there's nothing voluntary about them. These are administrative expulsions. They operate in a similar way as plea bargains in the criminal justice system by threatening people with formal deportation and forcing or coercing them to agree to leave the country supposedly on their own. But as I show in the book It's under coercive circumstances. It's also these broad based fear campaigns. Immigration rates from a propagation of the fear through the media, as well as restrictive immigration laws of the local and state levels. The threat of violence. In which is very real, and I think people understand that that combine to make people's lives miserable until they say that they're going to pick up and leave. No, rather than think about this is immigrants is rational decision makers decided to leave on their own. I think we need to understand that as part of the government and sometimes ordinary Americans strategy to push people out. Coming up on that. You know, Yusa, The deportation machine is still alive and well in 2020. We hear more about what makes it tick How it operates today and efforts to break it down for good. Stay with us. Nothing. Yes. I'm goalie, chef Islami, president and CEO of New York Public Radio. WNYC was made for moments like these. We're here for you, and we need you to be here for us. Listener support makes everything you hear on WNYC possible and gives our newsroom the ability to meet this moment.
"professor goodman" Discussed on Mike Church Presents-The Red Pill Diaries Podcast
"Presidential election in the primary season, and we're talking a little bit about how degraded the process by which the president is chosen has become. Now before we leave this subject here, Kevin just two things come to my mind I was reading something today Winston Elliott, imaginative, conservative website that was on this subject of federal versus national and the The Alexander psalter is the author of this particular piece and he was lamenting the fact that we were intended to have and the result of the revolution was most certainly a federal system and that. There there is. There's nothing in the original He's and John Taylor Carolina also sites US I it in his book new views on the Constitution of the United States. Salter is echoing Taylor when he says, there's nothing in the original three documents around the time of the American revolution. Now would be the declaration of independence. The articles of confederation and then the US Constitution or Taylor goes even further and said, they ask nothing in any of the state constitutions either but salter limits his to the three federal documents and Salter cited something that very few people that I read. That I've ever seen cited, and that is that the selection for the president is most certainly based upon one of the most ancient methods of selecting someone like a president and he alluded to that you could say that the College of Cardinals is basically all the same federal makeup and then you have to give a group of people together who has through some acts of their life have. been elevated or certain position, and that's how you would Dan select a leader of all. What do you think about all of that? Well President isn't supposed to be the leader of all leaders. Just drew. Has To be a chief executive of Federal Republic and by definition of Federal Republic is one with limited cognizance. So There's certainly well. They're supposed to be a federal system and not a national one is an idea you and I have talked about many many times before And I think the federal principle has more or less disappeared from the system There's in I think the latest issue of National Review. There's an article by Richard Epstein about scully as justice, Scalia's opinion the prince case and basically It makes much of the importance of the prince decision as a vindication of this federal principle but the problem is, of course that. The prints decision doesn't really stand for much essentially, it stands for. That right now the federal government can't conscripts. State. Authorities into helping enforce federal policies well, if that's all federalism means. Not much to it I, you know the point of that was supposed to be that. essentially that the central government would have very few. Areas of authority and. there's really almost nothing today in the Supreme Court's work that says that the federal government will have limited. areas of authorities essentially, it can do whatever it wants under the current constitutional. dispensations so It's. It's very unfortunate that the main principle has come to be the the vanished principle nowadays. Yeah I knew there was something that I wanted to to add to this week constitution. Our I even told my friend WHO DISCUSSES WITH ME I'M GONNA ask Professor Goodman about this. And that is we spent last week or two episodes ago we spend nearly the entire episode, Kevin Talk about the legacy of Justice Antonin Scalia, and that's a significant body of work and he he had a significant impact obviously on supreme. Court and on the Federal Judiciary, one of the things that Scalia was found bringing up and it was as fond of quoting is principle called starring decisive, right? Yeah. Well, that just means That in general. Where the court has kind of fifty, fifty choice, it will. Air On the side of precedent right? What I was going to bring up, always going to talk to you about who's GonNa ask you about my friend. Who is an attorney by trade or shall I say well, he calls himself Kevin Recovering attorney so. Kind of like you're you're you're recovering attorney as well as historian, right? That's right. Well. My friend who is recovering attorney did some of the final semester of his study. He's fortunate enough to go leave studied law in Scotland at of the Law Schools Edinburgh or one of those, and he attended a class lecture by a Scottish law professor and who was asked a question about what he thought about the American use starring decisive and discounters law professor just laughed and said, well, you guys got it. All wrong. Starring decisive to US means that it's it. What we were base a president upon as to what the is what the legislature had done. Not What did judiciary had interpreted the legislature to have done I thought you would get a kick out of the. Well. No Scottish. That sounds like a more reasonable principle than the one that our federal courts have adopted. So. To them shooting. Shouldn't we? Shouldn't accord base things if they need to rule against something or they take an act of the legislature or say, well, this is what the legislature said, and this is what the legislature had said previously. So then obviously the legislature must have must of man or the legislation must mean that. That makes. That makes too much sensory. Okay. That'll never work. In America, anymore America's exceptional. Well speaking of exceptional, we'll continue our exceptional conversation here on the constitution our and when we come back from this subject. Or from this break, we will ask the question and kind of tease his last week. Why is no one addressed the constitutionality of Donald Trump's wall with Mexico. So that's coming up next here on the constitution our professor Doctor Kevin Goodman. Don't touch that iphone or ANDROID APP. We'll be right back with much more right after this Veritas? Radio Networks Crusade Channel the professor is in send your questions for Professor Kevin Gutman to Constitution at Veritas. Radio. Network Dot Com..
"professor goodman" Discussed on 860AM The Answer
"See a podcast on Spotify and iTunes as well also falls on social media at the improv show both on Facebook and Twitter at proft Dan on Instagram and I wanted to talk a little bit about the you know the modeling the revised range of projected deaths from corona virus that was discussed in some detail Sir they the top line coming out of Tuesday night's Copa task force briefing and how doctors Berks and felt she dealt with it and just honestly the stunning ignorance of the DC press corps I mean has anybody in the press corps taken a basic econometrics class a basic science class where you run across having to manipulate and analyze and think about models it's remarkable and it's remarkable how obtuse they are that it takes about an hour longer than it should to understand what these individuals are saying the doctors to break it down and pretty straightforward layman's terms that judge give the average commonsense realist in your neighborhood can readily understand at the the anthropomorphic cessation the answer more visitation of of of models too by the press corps as bogeymen is just remarkable so here's how that proceeded as a refresher doctor Burks on the death estimate so course this is a projection it's a projection based on using very much what's happened in Italy and then looking at all the models and so as you saw on that slide that was our real number that a hundred thousand to two hundred thousand and we think that that is the range we really believe in hope every day that we can do a lot better than that because that's not assuming a hundred percent of every American does everything that they're supposed to be doing but I think that's possible over the next two weeks as he said the next two weeks you can be very painful as the both of us going to happen over the next hello so as mortality the fatalities to this disease will increase and then it will come back down and I'll come back down slower than the rate at which it went off Dr Fauci following up the modeling that doctor Berg showed predicts that number that you saw we don't accept that number that that's what's going to be we're gonna be doing everything we can to get it even significantly below that so you know I I don't want to be a mixed message this is the thing that we need to anticipate but that doesn't mean that that's what we're going to accept and then five G. as questions persisted just doing a little little bit of a modeling one on one tutorial if this is for my to get medication and it's a hundred thousand why my stand he is saying I want to make it better because that's what the model tells you it's going to do what we do is that every time we get more data you feed it back in and re look at the model is the model really telling you what's actually going on and again I know my modeling colleagues and not be happy with me but models are as good as the assumptions you put into them and as we get more data then you put it in and that might change so even though it says according to the model which is a good model that we're dealing with this is full mitigation as we get more data as the weeks go by that could be modified so suggestions are that mitigation is working here as it has working to some extent on Britain certainly to bring the projections down by a massive factors I mean again that imperial college London a study down from five hundred thousand Brits to not to exceed twenty thousand you know actor of of twenty five acts a massive one point five or one one to two point two million Americans now we're talking about rough numbers a hundred thousand to a thousand I hate talking about this because I don't in this way and I want to sound callous but when you're talking about this this from a macro numerical perspective it's hard not to so just start from the premise that that every life is precious and nobody wants to be cavalier about anybody other else's life and you want to minimize the loss of life as much as is humanly possible but as humanly possible in a world of trade offs is the portion of the conversation if you want to have in this was the point of Dan Hannan former MEP from the Runnymede in England and then hand writing a Washington examiner Washington or dot com it's so when one set of lives against another you know that you can't put a value on human life that's a at a time a wonderful sentiment but it's a banality that doesn't really play out in practice we make trade offs between life and quality of life all the time sure we do I'm by the way the people that suggest we don't the sentimental us they're the same people who support abortion and euthanasia generally speaking so I mean you know don't lecture me a pro lifer about respect for life from conception to natural death why don't you we obviously should do everything possible but it can't be without context four we've talked about this before what we know about suicides and this stress bringing on illnesses and heart attacks during here is where people are racked economically in Britain Philip Thomas is a professor of risk management at Bristol university he put a figure on the balancing the lives of those who will get sick and die versus the lives of those who will I mean from the virus this is a life of those who will get sick and die because of economic devastation and all that's attended to that he he argues a Phil Thomas does one arguing that once the containment measures because the economy to shrink by more than six and a half percent they will have cost more lives than the virus itself now he qualifies his estimate in a way that I wish more of these public health modelers would qualify there's the bet that they have inadequate data to make such assumptions are set to to make such projections within I a strict confidence interval but that's sort of the case with the a lot of this modeling where we still don't have a reliable denominator not from the perspective of epidemiologists including the professor Goodman at Stanford talked about yesterday the the point is simply that we need to be running the cost benefit analysis all the time that's the point that Hannah makes updating as new evidence comes in ready the lifted the restriction lifted restrictions the moment we can there's lithology there's a lot of Aliquippa to the restrictions to yeah and that's not really being discussed I don't know if people find it unseemly more as I said Callas but it's real and the when people are saying just give deliver the truth to us on things like supply chain that that's as supplies of personal protective equipment versus the need ventilators at this level with us results we can take it what we have to be able to take this to into that there's the scene in the on scene the virus is the scene because everybody's in the DC press corps to take our watcher and that's the source of their material on the basis for any question they can come up with that these briefings it would seem and of course a lot of people are glued to this and this is feeding the frenzy and then you have the stories in the announcement of the death toll on a daily basis and anecdotes about the the people who have died in that terrible stories they're terrible stories but what if we did stories of all the people who die from heart disease each day and each year by state and county or car accidents or cancer what if we decided that we wanted to save thousands of lives every year by improving the effective rate of the flu vaccine I mean we countenance without any discussion really in the public arena of particular note the seasonal flu in twenty seventeen twenty eighteen eighty thousand Americans died from influenza the average number of deaths due to influenza between twenty fourteen to twenty eighteen has been forty three thousand forty three thousand we're at the four thousand with respect the coronavirus at present I know the number's gonna go up that was the point of Tuesday's briefing and that's sad forty three thousand what what if the if the flu vaccine is forty five to fifty five percent effective which is sort of the the the sweet spot in terms of an effective vaccine that's highly recommended that level of effectiveness as Tony Fauci has mentioned about it before actual well he said that's not good enough for us if we get to sixty five percent or seventy five percent were literally saving thousands of lives you're working off the ball average the last four years forty three thousand improve the vaccine by ten percent twenty percent thirty percent over the course of the next three years for saving thousands of lives each year saving lives can't put a cost on a human life should should be shut down the economy until we get there any successive year until we have that there are incremental goals over the course of a an annualized over the course of three years or on an annualized basis these are the difficult questions that policymakers have to me but again the.
"professor goodman" Discussed on 860AM The Answer
"Welcome back to the camp when a pastor in Florida is arrested for holding math when the Chicago police break up a funeral at a church in Pulaski park when the DC mayor threatens jail time for anyone who violates her shelter in place order is it right test questions to offer some healthy skepticism some consideration of costs and benefits or are you a denier it hardly you question the accuracy of models or the premises that underlie them are you a denier or are you somebody with asking relevant questions about statistical models additionally providing historical context as we've done here that report by public health specialists four years after the H. one N. one virus where they reviewed all the studies that came out in the first nine months of that pandemic that lasted from April of two thousand nine to April two thousand ten in those nine months six dozen studies that had Eliphalet he rate range of one hundred thousand to ten thousand and a hundred thousand about that range in the real time but yet we're supposed to run headlong into shutting our lives down in canceling the month of April because of models that those with a much more statistical knowledge than I have both epidemiologists as well as a condiment Christians suggest there's no denominator that we're flying blind with the data that we have to this point professor Goodman from Stanford University for example remember World War two when Germany kept the church is open during the bombing of Dresden schools were open at all by the way I mean you know other countries are doing it somewhat differently I mean and and this is not faith based obviously because I'm gonna mention Sweden in addition to how different states are responding there are you know ten states out west that don't have any shelter in place orders the politicians in places like a dog seniors are taking heat for it because we're been excoriated by the press and by the left to have their message amplified by the beltway press that there's no such thing as an overreaction and that you should enthusiastically give up your liberties in exchange for whatever security we're supposed to believe politicians are going to provide us yeah I think this is the time for being very realistic about this real threat this real public health crisis this real pandemic while also recognizing that I don't think it's going to be the politicians or the infectious disease experts that alert us to rapture how about that for more on the topic we're pleased to be joined by David divvy L. he's a senior contributor at the imaginative conservative he's also the editor of logos the journal of Catholic thought and culture and visiting professor at the university of St Thomas in Minnesota David thanks for joining us appreciate it thanks for having me down you wrote a little bit about healthy skepticism and a piece in the imaginative conservative the imaginative conservative the imaginative conservative dot org conservative skepticism in a pandemic in you started out by sort of exploring the question are are those who identify as conservatives philosophically ideologically more inclined to be skeptical than those who identify themselves as men and women of the left and you sort of conclude yes and then try to answer the question why yeah well I think part of it is that conservatives have I have a healthy sense of history that you know I heard you before talking about the H. one N. one and I I mentioned a number of these other sort of apocalypse is that were announced I remember Y. two K. anthrax cellphone radiation and so we have a a sort of a longer sense of what happened and just yesterday we also have a sort of understanding that much of the the media reporting gets politicized in a way that meant you know many liberals still don't think that they think that if it's on you know the New York Times side sort of comes from a purely objective point of view and we understand that there's a lot of politics wrapped up and above and beyond that we know that that that the questions of modeling and the questions of who's already had the virus are out there there are some models in Oxford team did a study that thought that over half of Britain already had in contact with the the corona virus and I I have a belief that probably a lot of Americans that my my in laws live in Snohomish county Washington where the first outbreak was and they had a they had a mystery illness that was very similar but but milder if that's the case then the possibility for this exponential growth of everybody getting at you know may have already run run dry in point of fact there's this a study then none of this is in dispute but it's not like we're conjuring this up out of whole cloth there's a study published in the scientific journal nature medicine after team of experts analyze the pandemic Dr Francis Collins who happens to be the director of the National Institute for health in this country said as a result of gradual evolutionary changes over years or perhaps decades the virus eventually gained the ability to spread from human to human and cause serious often life threatening disease they're suggesting that this virus cove in nineteen has been with us perhaps for years perhaps decades as it evolved until the tended to into the threat that it poses today yeah I thank you and I think that's quite possible there I've seen similar pieces identically gets all the nature medicine one but but yeah this is been around for a for a good while and it's mutated in the end one way and now it's causing problems the question is we really don't know there's a couple of doctors at Stanford Erin Ben David and I forget the other doctors name to put her published several pieces one of the Wall Street journal doing doing modeling that seems to suggest that even in Italy they they're not they don't have the room for exponential growth either because it's been around and most people are are are they don't get any symptoms from from this thing and if that's the case then this is gonna this is gonna be a different situation in the U. S. many of my friends say well we're going to be just like Italy but we don't have the same age structure of Italy we don't have the same smoking rates we don't live in the same way so why are mortality rates would be be be different it's pretty obvious to me but many people are saying oh it's going to be just like Italy well it could be like Sweden something that Leo the thirteenth probably of the thirteenth wrote during his tenure as pope back at the end of the nineteenth century man proceeds the state and possesses prior to the formation of any state the right of providing for the substance of his body and it seems to me that a lot of the foundation of the sort of different world views are a lot of the basis of of the different world views as you describe it comes from you know the formative thought behind it that's right I think a lot of people what this is you know this is entered into the political debate and many people are saying you know the that Rick representative James Clyburn of course I quoted him in my PC in a supposedly saying well this is a great opportunity to restructure everything according to our view well that view is one that the state takes the the sort of the lead and we're you know maybe we're not cogs in it but we're certainly secondary whereas as a you know a more traditional Catholic you and Christian view is that that individuals and even more so the family take precedence for the state this you know the state is there to protect us were not there to serve that what I fear is in this over reaction and saying well we'll just knock off all those this capacity for people to provide for their but don't worry we'll provide more unemployment benefits and maybe universal healthcare I think you know I fear that much of the political reaction to this is going in a direction that we may regret especially if that that apocalyptic scenarios don't play out his David to be a senior Confederate imaginative conservative editor of logos journal capa thought culture visiting professor.
"professor goodman" Discussed on 860AM The Answer
"Com on social media Facebook Twitter at the improv show as well as at the end profit and on Instagram at Providence United Ireland reversed it I said president trump if you were we're a consuming nothing but Netflix Amazon and Hulu content over the weekend you better pace yourself because of president trump of course announced at Sunday night's briefing the following we will be extending our guidelines to April thirtieth to slow the spread on Tuesday will be finalizing these plans and providing a summary of our findings supporting data and strategies to the American people and his aspirational date has moved to bed from Easter weekend to June one we can expect that by June first we will be well on our way to recovery we think by June first a lot of great things will be happening on the other big news with that that was I don't know if it was big news but it was treated as big news by the beltway press corps for obvious reasons these are checker watchers and and and and you know rhetorical arsonists the DC press corps so they took the range that Anthony Fauci offered up earlier in the day the projected range of deaths from a hundred thousand two hundred thousand Americans across millions of cases over the the life of the virus at least before where in the on the downside of the curve as it were took that and ran with it to do what they do which is from and hysteria to promote on recent so Tony Fauci at the task force briefing addressed the issue of the models and what they can tell us and what they can the number I gave out is you know based on modeling and I think it's entirely conceivable that if we do not mitigate to the extent that we're trying to do that you can reach that number yeah yeah yeah it's possible I mean you could make a big sound bite about it but the fact is it's and they will yeah what we're trying to do is not let that happen so instead of concentrating on the upper and the lower we're saying that we're trying to push all the way down but the second part of your question was yes we feel that the medication that we're doing right now is having an effect it's very difficult to quantitative because you have to dynamic things going on at the same time he got the virus going up and you have the mitigation trying to push it down but the decision to prolong not prolong but to extend this mitigation process until the end of April I think was a wise and prudent decision Dr Brooks and I spent a considerable amount of time going up all the data why we felt this was the best choice of us and the president accepted it so in direct answer to your question the idea that we may have these many cases played a role in our decision in trying to make sure that we don't do something prematurely and pull back when we should be pushing but we're still in this place has been discussing in this show with innumerable gas where we don't really have a handle on projections which is why they can swing I I handle on on the necessary data to make informed projections I should be more specific which is why they can swing as much as they have swung you can have a twenty five hundred percent correction by the author of the study of the imperial that that was promulgated by the imperial college London you can have Tony Fauci putting the number between one hundred and two hundred whereas there were models just of recent vintage that have the the potential death toll in the millions and interesting observations in a Bloomberg report over the weekend from a professor of epidemiology at Stanford saying is they missed eve Goodman saying that the confirm coronavirus cases that metric for the ticker watchers Anna is seen on CNN all day every day total cases and deaths globally total cases and deaths United States you know what that tells us not a fracking thing I mean it tells us the carnage numbers but it it is in no way a tool to elucidate anything important the numbers are almost meaningless as professor Goodman there's a huge reservoir of people who have mild cases and would likely not seek testing the rate of increase in positive results reflect a mixed up combination of increase testing rates and spread of the virus what we need is more complete data smarter data more coordinated data to communicate something meaningful about the extent of covert nineteen and how many people are likely to die which hospitals are like could be swamped with a drastic change in the way Americans little start to slow down the spread of the virus what we should be watching instead of what you've been force fed by most of the beltway press corps in the regional office I he suggests one possibility hospitalizations that the idea was also put four by statisticians at Berkeley they are good the rate of increase in hospitalizations could reflect the growth of the disease without being distorted by changes in the testing right measuring death rates can eventually tracked the speed with which cover nineteen is spreading as does represent a fraction the cases but there's a lack of some three weeks between infection and death generally speaking whereas hospitalizations give us an intermediate point that estimate they estimated the statisticians that it takes between eleven and fourteen days for someone to get sick enough to show up at a hospital a rates of increase in cove in nineteen patients admitted to the ICU can provide additional useful data all in and also the statistician says collecting this kind of data can help prevent what's happening from happening which is the possibility that hospitals are icy use will become overwhelmed start turning people away raise the threshold of how sick you have to be before being admitted if you can get good real time comprehensive data that provides better information about the decisions you make on resource allocation you know and even in a pandemic we live in a world of scarcity you gotta make resource allocation decisions president trump talked about that with respect to all of the they did the engines of production that are a churning at present to produce ventilators and masks and face shields and the like if we behave a I could excuse me once you have a rate rate handle on the rate of new cover nineteen patients in the hospitals I see use you can start to forecast how many more will arrive in coming days according to the statisticians right now we're floundering in a sea of ignorance about who is infected and the fate of people who are affected but he is hopeful is Stanford's epidemiology professor Goodman data scientists will get to the right data now that we have a handle on the data that's needed he also says despite the efforts to apply death rates at present in particular states a particular countries across the larger population he says that he's skeptical anyone knows the death rate this disease since we don't know the true rates of infection and this is where the issue of all of the people who are a symptomatic may have the virus comes in the lethality rate whether it's a few percentage points in one state or under a percentage point in other states and other countries until you get through those layers of testing where we talked about before the layers of those presenting symptoms the contact tracing to then find the people that they've been in contact with and make an assessment of those individuals than frontline health care workers and then representative samples of the population a larger population so that you can do some modeling that's informed and get those sort of media statistics which can which can can influence the decision making that's sort of the progression and we're not there yet but with what president trump announced about Abbott labs a test coming online and with the trajectory of tests that are being deployed being done being process generally speaking well we're north of seven hundred thousand test completed at as of Sunday night's briefing per vice president pence yeah we're hopeful that were we're getting there and then we can get on that road map to re opening that tough former FDA director Dr Scott Gottlieb a talked about in both piece in the Wall Street journal as well as a more extensive report that he issued to the American enterprise institute breaking the road to re opening in four phases phase one being slowing the spread we're still in phase one and the the triggers of to get from phase one to phase two which is the beginning of the re opening yes mail reopening sustained reduction in cases for at least fourteen days reports got leave advocates got liberally hospitals in the state are safely able to retreat all patients requiring hospitalization without returning crisis standards of care the state is able to test all people with covert nineteen symptoms and end the state is able to conduct active monitoring of confirmed cases and their contacts so those first two layers and the knowledge and monitoring of active confirmed cases as well as the contact tracing.
"professor goodman" Discussed on We The People
"I'm Jeffrey Rosen. President and CEO of the National Constitution Center and welcome to we the people a weekly show of constitutional national debate. The National Constitution Center is a nonpartisan nonprofit chartered by Congress to increase awareness and understanding of the constitution among the American people twitter announced. Recently that it would stop all political advertising twitter's new policy declares. Twitter globally prohibits the promotion of political content. We've made this decision. Based on our belief that political message to reach should be earned and not bought around the same time facebook. This book announced that it will continue to run political ads and a few weeks ago facebook. CEO Mark Zuckerberg gave a speech about these books free expression policy to compare the political ads policy facebook and twitter and discuss free speech online more. Generally I'm joined by two of America's leading experts on Digital Speech Ellen Goodman is professor of law at Rutgers Law School and Co Director and Co founder of the Rutgers Institute for Information Policy and law she blogs for the the institute's website and at medium dot com Professor Goodman is also senior fellow at the Digital Innovation and Democracy Institute at the German Marshall Fund and she previously obviously served as distinguished visiting scholar at the Federal Communications Commission. Ellen it is wonderful to have you on the show thank you so much Jeff. Really happy to be. Yeah and Eugene Volokh is Gary t Schwartz distinguished professor of law at Ucla Law. School he is author of the First Amendment and related statutes among many other works six and founder and Co author of the Volokh conspiracy a leading legal blog professor. Bollock also just launched the project free speech rules a website featuring doing videos and explain the laws of free speech and I encourage the people listeners to check it out at free speech rules dot Org. Eugene it's wonderful to have you back on the show it always a great pleasure all right. Let's begin with the facts. I just read from the preamble to twitter's new political speech policy and in describing who is subject to the policy twitter goes on to say we define political content as content that references a candidate political party elected or appointed government official election shen referendum ballot measure legislation regulation directive or judicial outcomes after that there are some exceptions Ellen. Can you begin by describing a little more detail what twitter's political ads policy is why twitter adopted it and why facebook has made a different choice. So I think Mark Zuckerberg was first out of the gate saying that That facebook would not apply. Its usual policies on disinformation too political critical ads and that The reason was because He said because they believed in free speech. And then Jack Dorsey from twitter In a kind of patrolling comment responded to that by saying that was irresponsible because of course platforms make decisions all the time on what content to host but in specifically in this context what content to promote and what content to monetize so that twitter was gonna come up with a policy about out political ads and I think the first iteration of the first announcement of twitter's policy was that it would not take either political advertising or issue Advertising and and we can talk about those terms because they have sort of a pedigree in communications law. But then I think when the after fielding some criticism awesome for that in the final policy that twitter announced They have distinguished between those two and they will take issue ads but interestingly They they will not micro target. And that's another thing we can talk about not micro target The the those ads To Very Small Mall Niche audiences. Eugene what was your first reaction to the twitter policy obviously. We can't speak as a matter of formal First Amendment Law because because the First Amendment doesn't bind twitter but broadly do you agree with twitter's decision to ban political ads and micro targeting while allowing advocacy ads and do you agree with its insistence. That ad should reach audiences based on interest rather than money. You know. It's an interesting question. I don't have an answer for it in part because I think it's an experiment In a year or two we'll see do does it look like that consequences sequence of Of that kind of policy is to make political advertising even more expensive and require even more fundraising for example for four political candidates. I mean the more expensive You make a political campaigns. The more The more concerns people have about campaign finance for example or on the other hand. Is it something which helps twitter. Avoid a lot of controversies and may even make the environment more pleasant for twitter users. The one of the advantages of having this be done by private entities even very very large and influential private entities is that we can experiment we get to to see What things are like Under the new regime and It it may be that ultimately even just from a from a bottom line perspective twitter will conclude. Oh this is something that is losing US valuable advertising. Although apparently at such advertising is a very modest source of income for for twitter the political advertising conversely maybe facebook will say allowing this advertising causes so much controversy and so many complaints that we have to deal with. We're better off following the twitter model perfectly Any of them is perfectly plausible. Any of these possible outcomes perfectly plausible and this is an experiment. The lowest to see what happens ellen. Is Eugene says twitter gets little money from political advertising less than three million out of a total revenue. Three billion by contrast facebook facebook gets a far larger portion of its revenue from political ads. You've written critically about aspects of twitter's policy saying it doesn't go far enough in some aspect and it goes too who far in others Could you share some more of your thoughts about whether or not twitter's new decision not to run. Political ads is a good thing. I think Twitter should it'd be commended for his. Eugene says for for taking on this experiment one thing we know for sure is that they're going to be unintended effects and it's going to take a lot of heat for those effects I mean some of them one of them might be that straight for example. Some people's pointed out Exxon will be able to advertise for fossil fossil fuels because that is not an issue ad and Climate Change activists will not be able to advertise for a carbon tax because that will be a specific legislative proposal And so you know undoubtedly twitter's going to take a lot of heat for this I can say that Two things that I think would improve improve this policy and this is really in the spirit of what Eugene said was you know assessing this as an experiment In order to do that we will need a lot. If transparency it's not clear how much transparency there's going to be about this so for example. What kinds of ads is twitter? Not taking how does it respond bond. When it gets one of the complaints that it will surely get that Something at deemed political is not political or that something it lead on because it it it you not thinking it was political actually is political. How much transparency will be get into these decisions and what How much access will we get to the data? One other thing that I I really like about twitter's twitter did and Again we need a lot more data about this and I think this particular aspect of the policy could be expanded did what it did on micro targeting so I and other people have really been harping on this micro targeting as really being the evil here in in some of these some surveillance ad networks and so I would like to see more action taken on micro targeting Eugene what are your thoughts about micro targeting and about twitter's twitter's idea that the reach of ad should depend on interest in them not how much people pay for them and what do you think about twitter's efforts to distinguish between political ads in other words as it included appeals for votes solicitations for financial support and advocacy for or against political issues from paid advocacy ads. which they'll still permit well? So I think that it's important to Stress that these are private institutions agents here And it's true. They're private institutions with a lot of power and a lot of influence over public debate and there are plausible arguments for regulating. Then we're trying to pressure them socially to allow more speech. But I do think that's one of the things that makes it legitimate to To have them experiment with these kinds of things if the government were to totally ban micro targeting Said if you want if you want to advertise your political message. Whether it's a candidate did a message or an issue message you've got to do it Millions of people are not at all. I think that'd be clearly unconstitutional. Among other things can personal conversations nations are the are a form of micro targeting when when parties for example encourage their members to talk to each other or a or bring in particular particular people who will go to a small group gathering and talk with an eye towards what that group thinks whether I group is interested in say go to homeowners association creation and talk about one set of things and talk to and then go to a church group and talk about another set of things that's clearly fully protected speech at the same time and if twitter thinks that that's not a good use of its platform it doesn't want to allow its platform to be used for that because it thinks that that's ultimately worse for our democracy than better I think at the very least they ought to be given a chance to try this out and see what happens and then again in a year or two. We'll see If if we have a lot of stories about people who implausibly say look this loses us a good opportunity to convey them messages we need to convey to the particular groups we need need to reach in a way that's likely to reach them actively maybe that will lead a lead twitter to Chita Change. It's mind especially their specific specific examples. But I I do think this this to the micro targeting also something that. I don't think can be categorically condemned or categorically praised. It's the sort of thing where it makes sense that there would be some experimentation nation with likewise more generally about political advertising of The First Amendment fully protect political advertising it recognizes Nice is an important use of free speech or freedom of the press actually think about it. Freedom of the press historically has been How the framers and later generations referred to the mass communications so that is that is clearly protected against the government but at the same time it may make sense for twitter to say look we want for political purposes? Our platform to be used for people expressing their views because they believe in them and not because they've been paid to war war getting views because somebody has has paid for that obviously when it comes to commercial advertising. That's exactly what twitter does is. It allows a commercial UH enterprises to promote their products because Because the enterprises being twitter for that but I mean again. That's something if you want to have twitter you have to have some funding source for it. It's going to be free to everybody then. It needs to be supported by advertising so again these are arguments that I would not accept from the government imposing using regulations but it makes sense to see to see how they work out and we've seen twitter policy and facebook policy change over the years in the passed in response to some of these experiments and I guess we'll see in the next several years. How how much of this survives? But I don't think we should view any. Yeah this is sort of set in stone. This is the way things are going to be going forward indefinitely And I think a lot depends on what the outcomes of look like they are after after this destroyed ellen in a piece you wrote with Karen Kornbluh in the La Times called the more outrageous the lie the better. It is for facebook's bottom line you said that twitter's definition of political ads might create problems you wrote in the weeks since twitter ban political ads. We've seen that the slack definition and uneven enforcement. Maybe as bad as facebook's do nothing approach if twitter continues to define political to include ads on controversial topics versus electioneering adds that advocate for the election or defeat of a candidate in a political campaign. The resulting morass will be predictable. Critics predict ads. Promoting fossil fossil fuel will not be considered issue ads but those promoting.
"professor goodman" Discussed on KQED Radio
"Dot org comments on our Facebook page or tweet us at one Hey this maybe a hard question to start with because for those who love this genre it's almost kind of vestigial it's it's it's close to use your finger prints but I would love to know from each of you how you got into this genre if there was one particular artist or group who hooks you and made you know that R. and B. was something that was meaningful to you nine a Cochran what about you let me start with you I grew up in it my uncle was a session player for the Commodore as my father was a tenor saxophone player and my mother was a and my mother and stepfather were both audio files so we just had the music in the house all the time and I was I I am a Gen X. there and I was in high school in the early nineties and basically you play the radio all day once we got home mom this is before streaming and before you know even CD's so that's what you did you play the radio you watched videos and we all went to sleep with the quiet storm and you know with arm the music and that was just what we live with it was the sound track I can't remember an entree point it just was always there Tom what about you for me arm be was a John I gravitate to just because it made me feel something I remember going up listen to hot ninety seven and BLS here in New York and the music the lyrics it spoke for me it it said but I want to say in each song whenever I heard songs in the nineties and really made me feel a certain way and that's why I like to get our music so for me that's why I gravitate to arm be the most professor Goodman well I I had them to have vested interests in it one is that I grew up listening to it certainly listening to Aretha Franklin and James Brown and later Shaka Kahn and then I wound up working with Chaka Khan writing a hit for her entitled you can make the story right also I grew up listening to Roberta Flack sang background for her for ten years because I listen to their music Shaka and Roberta and so many of the other people I've worked with before was professor I I knew their music backwards and forwards because I had listened to it was so in love with it when I was growing up so therefore when I got to to the Shaka Kahn rehearsal there was a song that was to be the that the that the next single on our CD which I had co written because you can make the story right and I started singing along and I knew every every this is just a rehearsal I wasn't conscious to saying or anything and and I knew every lyric to every song and socks as well what do you do it tomorrow yeah could you could you be all at a gig tomorrow and it's a little late you know I have to be with Roberta Flack the day after but yes I can do your gig and then so we went back and forth but what I'm trying to get to is that I was such a love their music and it had been played around our house hold for so long and a final for so long that was at an education money yeah nine what is the R. and B. landscape look like these days how would you describe where abouts I think we're at the top of a renaissance era farm beat for about the past decade our NBC has almost been a bad word in urban music and and black music has been a bad word has been out of forbidden phrase for as long as there's been black music but in quote unquote urban music people have wanted to brand themselves as alternative soul or email sold or basically anything except arm be it's it's just been a discarded genre but now with artists like her in day you'll Caesar and are you listening to you just played and late summer Walker just marking the highest one week debut for a brand new R. and B. artist female artist I think that we're seeing a turn to come back to a place of appreciation and respect for the genre what was the name of that made it such a bad word what what what was the that was the problem honestly I blame radio it's always been a problem like radio is actually who dictates in my opinion how we boxed these formats up and every since the conglomeration of our my radio between separating urban adult and urban main urban main being like the hot ninety sevens like the temp file a younger listening audience urban adult being the place where Luther Vandross and Anita Baker and you know now you know prime night Mary J. Blige go being the place for like bigger voices and and ballads and slower tempo there's been like a kind of if you're too mainstream arm be your old folks music or what they might now call on scene I'm going USAAC and that's a slower moving chart if this is a slower selling chart and so labels want music that's going to go to the format that's gonna sell records so people have hesitated to call themselves aren't the labels have hesitated to want to embrace our MP because aren't be in their mind doesn't sell records what about you are you hearing a particular sound dominating the charts right now yeah for R. and B. it's more of a vibe be sound to where you know beats is is more the focal point where vocals are really kind of on the back burner just some you can buy it too and I think it's although to speak about the landscape we've gotten to this point you know aren't be is more strong than it has been in the mainstream and in years you know for so many years I grew up R. and B. was a dominant genre of hip hop and then at some point hipaat became the dominant John run we had our be trying to catch that so yet arm be influenced by hip hop in the sounds were kind of a lot different than we were used to going up but I think we know some of the artists coming out now are finally getting back the influences of the greats of years past which is great to see I'm a still is a sound like exactly what when I was you know listen to growing up at least we're getting some of that back so I think are in B. as in a stronger place that's been in the past decade and Tom could you help draw some of those lines in terms of as you see it what distinguishes R. and B. from hip hop or pop or other genres like how do you know which one you're listening to really it's the lines are blurred and they have been for some time because you had hip hop artists singing and they would call that aren't be you had any black artist who would choose a saying they would call the arm be even if it wasn't you know an artist like Khalid I don't necessarily call an army artistique goes in many different genres but they just box them into our and be so I think we're finally starting to see some some of the the lines get less blurred some of the artists are are claiming that aren't be crowned you know her and and and Ella Mae and he even in our second go a lot there it's sticking more to that more soulful sound that was prominent in years past we're starting to see it separate a bit so it's good to see right now yeah was LMA came up with several of you in terms of the artists that you like Renaldo tweeted my current arm be play list includes Anderson pack Eric Robertson LMA at a constant flow of eighties and nineties hits got to have some guy and Keith sweat in the mix for those of you who are not familiar with her let's play a piece of one of her tracks this is boot up by element stay close on the next morning edition what does the US trade war with China have to do with gold fish marble eyes all sorts of money a little also in new books women who worked for the CIA talk about fighting the war on terror sometimes I would have to travel in the trunks of cars just because that was the way that it was listen for all kinds of stories on the next morning edition from NPR news and morning edition is on the air.
"professor goodman" Discussed on KQED Radio
"And from listeners like you who donate to this NPR station this is one a former Ohio governor John case six as we need to focus more on what every American can do to make this country better and not just put it all on the president or the candidates his new book is called it's up to us ten little ways that we can bring about big change Erin emailed I applied for an alderman position in my town so that the people's voice may be hurt it is a small thing but I feel as though I have absolutely no say in what my country's government does I can only take care of my one small part of America K. tweeted in Crawfordsville Indiana a group of us came together after the synagogue shooting last year and formed a voices for peace erected peace hole and are committed to education and support for peace but I guess made in this just think about that I mean those those two examples I hope the the lady can be appointed to the older man and you know to serve and don't want to be there forever because then you get sucked into the vortex of I need to be in this job because it makes me important you know you go in for a while do your thing in terms of the peace poll think about that and and how great it is that people came together in their own way to make a statement I happen to think those things change the world I also happen to think that when you do things like that you feel really good about yourself and really good about the people that are around you but I'm not trying to be some preacher here okay if I was gonna be a preacher I'd go to seminary where column caller but I do believe that we are commanded to you know to live a life a little bigger than themselves I also believe that everybody Josh what is made special nobody's ever been like you and no one will ever be like you again and so therefore why are you here you know what is the purpose of your life and by the way case people don't know this life for all of us doesn't go on forever so I asked people to consider their eternal destiny and when you do that when you think about your eternal destiny it's actually freeing so you know what's so interesting Joshua here you got John case sick right you know big politician and all that stuff although I'm not anymore writing a book and most people would think all that's a book about politics it is not yeah I heard it in and I read that Sony Reds me this morning a newspaper article that says in the total number of pages in the book the Donald Trump is mentioned I think one time it was purposely designed to give people a manual as to how to get their power back Carmel tweeted little things that have a ripple effect in the sea where traffic is crazy and tempers are high always try to let someone in front of me in traffic when they're changing lanes often they seem surprised and I like to believe it lightens their day and perhaps they'll do the same Carmel for those of us who ride motorcycles we really really appreciate it and you know what that's just so cool so my one of my buddies is sitting outside the studio and he's always a little skeptical about these little things but think about this so the lady let somebody and instead of there being a fury then you go to work and say let it any yet cut me off you're blowing your horn and yeah it could and then you learn something from well let me let somebody else in this is not complicated this is America or you know let's go back to the civil rights movement all right when Rosa Parks decided I'm sitting where I want to set and I'm not I'm not moving I mean think about that I remember we now celebrate but at the time she was Rosa Parks nobody knew who Rosa Parks was so sometimes just by showing up just by sitting down just by taking the stand that being you know being being positive about it can dab salute to change the world I want to ask you a few questions about politics but but we do want to close the loop on this you know I I I wonder how well actually re two more comments that I want to close the loop on this one Saturn is tweeted my little thing to make big changes happen is to remind people that we're all in this together humanity is a team sport not an individual effort encourage empathy and collaboration not division and competition and Kevin emailed I do my best to make my community better I volunteer I donate to bail funds I recycle pick up trash and reduce my consumption none of it changes the institutional issues the changes that we make help the lives of those that we touch but until institutional changes are made the problems will continue to propagate to point you recently urged Republicans to in your words look in the mirror and figure out how they want to be remembered later and how they feel about themselves today with regards to changing things in changing the tone I wonder if people actually want that I mean there are a lot of Republican voters who say they don't like the tone but they like the transaction they like what they're getting out of the trump administration some Republican lawmakers say I don't like the tone but I got to get reelected and I think if we're honest some voters kind of like to scrap and screaming and yelling they like having a candidate who's punching the people in the face who they think are what's wrong with this country how since your do you think we are on our political sphere in saying we want a kinder gentler America I don't think you need to win an election by savaging somebody else that's why I didn't support Donald Trump but trump that it can be done well I know but look at where the country is more polarized more divided and that does not help us going forward and I don't I I want to just say it's just the it's just the right toward the trump people I mean Alan goes to a football game and get savage because she's sitting in the owners box with George Bush I mean that's just absurd just recently happened the cowboys game yeah and we we know that's not the way we ought to live so and the other thing is when you're in politics you're not there to feed the beast you're there to lead your other say to people no no no I don't think we ought to do that and if you can't lead I mean then you know you're not very strong and hopefully there's a leader around it can get you motivated in the right way but when you're in public office you're you're there for a short period of time you know I saw Willie Geist today he's a terrific guy works over there at NBC and he says he tells his wife you know today everything is good and the phone is ringing and tomorrow it may not be so I think when Willie looks at his life and his performance I think he thinks about what he's contributing that's the way the politicians ought to think about it okay I have a momentary time here in which you know a momentary time when we I can make a big difference and I ought to do it I ought not to have a momentary lapse of reason let me I think Floyd for those that is exactly let me ask you about presidential politics right before we let you go I know that you considered running lex next year but decided that that was not for you we've got a democratic debate coming up tonight well I haven't made any decision on anything yeah I options are still on the table is also considering a say I mean I'm not going to do this if I couldn't win and I'll have something to say in a relatively short period of time about all of that which way are you leaning you'll have to tune in I wonder what you are looking out for in the months and weeks to come particularly either for the democratic candidates or for other Republican challengers to Donald Trump for the nomination before right now I don't see any effective challenger to Donald Trump I don't see it because the party is sort of rallied around them and not just a party but the mechanics of the of the political operation I mean it can't sing primaries and things like that in the Democratic Party you know the real question is I believe the country is basically center right center left and if you go hard left I'm not sure you can win and the question I always have with the with the Democrats now is are you talking about the table issues are you talking about health care in a reasonable way I I just don't think saying I'm going to kill all private health insurance is going to work but there is a problem with healthcare there is a problem with that there is a there are so many issues that have to be faced it is a problem with wage stagnation there is a problem with are you going to have a are you gonna have security in your job in a world of A. I. N. and fast moving technology there's all things that need to be talked about and that's what people are waiting for Joshua for Ohio don't hear the music former Ohio governor John case in his new book is called it's up to us ten little ways to make a big difference of course the music means we got to let you go but governor we appreciate your time thanks for talking to us I enjoyed it thank you very much today's conversation was produced by station brown to learn more about our team visit the one eight dot for for the men blues better known as foreign B. has changed a lot over the years the registers are higher the production elements more prominent and other genres are starting to have a lot more influence from hip hop to alternative to electronic what's the current sound of R. and B. what we gain when the genre changes and what we lose joining us from NPR New York to discuss this is nine AM a Cochran she's a former music executive and currently is a music and culture writer I am a walking to one act thank you for having me also in P. R. New York is Tom Leo the co founder and CEO of you know I got soul website covering R. and B. Tom welcome thanks for having me glad to be here and in Boston Gabrielle Goodman is a professor of music in the voice department at the Berklee college of music professor Goodman glad to have you with us thank you for having me it's a pleasure to be here we welcome your questions and thoughts about the state of foreign be especially if you are an artist or an be artist or musician or producer share what you know about the industry.
"professor goodman" Discussed on 90.3 KAZU
"To those of you who called out that particular track Andrew emailed I am a lifelong fan of the genre with the collection of almost three thousand albums classic and contemporary from a fan's perspective the past decade has been a golden age for this music contrast that with trolls who likes his music a little more virtual Charles emailed Spotify has a great current acoustic R. and B. play list professor I'd love to get your sense of how the genre has changed in terms of production we had a listener who called in to talk about the instrumentation of R. and B. these days here's what Marvin from Michigan left in our inbox I'm fifty two years old and I'm also a musician and one of the things that sure to be a musician what's the romanticism better fisted between musicians when they're playing all state if you look back at the Commodores Ohio players earth wind and fire does the chemistry between the musician that one listening I would pick up all and that's what drew you into the music Marvin thanks for sharing your thoughts with us professor Goodman how would you respond to that I mean are are in the artist's less inclined to play physical actual instruments these decks it depends on the artist I mean her is certainly playing the guitar and he's totally invested the end of playing an instrument and probably other instruments other than the guitar but it's really depends on the artist it really depends on their view of the music Ellen may I I think we cannot also over look Chris Brown who has produced LMA and who also harkens back to Michael Jackson when you listen to him you can clearly here the influence as these as the caller said there's a clear passion in the in the in the interests of the musicians to the music of R. and B. but that comes from gospel it comes from just a war interest in the music and not really sort of being so technical about it which is really having a strong feeling for the music and that is a part of the legacy of African American music and if we're thinking about instrumentation yes it it has changed over the years it's a lot more electronic LMAs music harkens back to the nineteen nineties but still a lot more electronic than than the music of the nineteen nineties actually realize you actually had guitar bass drum and synthesizer then which a lot of the music right now is more synthesized and I have to say that R. and B. music is being re named in some ways you know where we're looking at white artists who out very black if we wouldn't want to call it in the in that in those terms they sell if you if you hear them you it initially think that it's an African American artists so therefore there called when they're singing in that style they're called RB artists such as Justin Timberlake and Tory Callie and they're they're played on black radio they played a white radio the conundrum has been over the years that if you have a black artist a lot of times especially the historically they've been only been played on black radio so therefore they had to create songs that had a soda pop element that didn't sound as quote unquote black that could be played on white rope radio and that was where the conundrum came ends so we have all of these things that play all at the same time and as has been said before there is a blurring of the styles and genres at this time and radio plays a part in that record companies play a part in that because record companies want to have the music played on very stations so it's it's it's it's a collaboration of several things happening all at once with regards to the instrumentation Donnie emailed I'm a session and touring musician who's worked with Aretha Franklin Marvin Gaye Natalie Cole Curtis Mayfield and dozens of others technically productions have improved but production values have not kept pace the days of a Quincy Jones or Curtis Mayfield are behind us unfortunately that's probably why I get checks for music sampling every year my email with regards to this production aspect of it how do you see I mean this it really doesn't make a difference if the technical way in which the music is made is not the way it was made when Marvin Gaye's was in the studio I mean don't John Rhys have to adapt with their fan bases John was do have to adapt what their fan bases but what you've lost is the you're a dip the but the caller said was that the chemistry between musicians and artists they used to take place in the studio when you have session players in there together kind of playing off of each other are you had the producer in the studio with the artists working on the music together now the producer can email attract the artist can later vocals you know they program to music it all comes together in pieces and there is a lack like the song may still sound good but there is a kind of heart missing from it that you used to get from music back in the day the other thing is that advances in production have led to a decrease in instrumentation because if you can program all of those sounds why am I paying day rates for all of the session players to come into the studio for however many days right so and and labels don't necessarily want to lay out that budget what's a decline in physical sales when I lay out that budget to pay that kind of money to have artist on a roll with the full band or to put some players in the studio for live music etcetera so yeah even though you have to adapt the same as as with you know adaptation an industry leads to loss of jobs for actual physical people there is something human that's lost you referred him a number of musicians on this score and also on just the changing nature of the genre Jim tweeted in the sixties and seventies I played bass backing up great R. and B. acts in my hometown of Philly I feel like the more they produce auto tuned beat box over compressed tracks the more the lose the individuality of human beings behind the song I'm sticking with my old holdings timely I'd love you to respond to that because there was a time in which all the technology that went into R. and B. music was novel it was cool it was part of the sound you could have artists that use kind of auto tuned or vote coated music when you hear someone kind of spy speak singing in a high pitched electron X. sound where that was considered new it was the cutting edge was part and parcel Warren Beatty and now it's kind of a reason for some people to say all I'm going to stick with the oldies what what's that about did IT technology kind of jumped the shark at some point or is this just the generational way that parents always dislike their kids music well a lot of it has to do with the way that John or his change and attention spans have shortened I called the I tunes affect where you can listen to a thirty second snippet of a song and then make a decision if you like that song or not an R. and B. historically as a genre is not meant to be consumed that way so in in effect the John Rhys suffered and now we're getting songs either she very much shorter in length they do they no longer have bridges it doesn't make sense to bring in live instrumentation is just too costly and you know you can stream a song twice as many times if it's two and a half minutes compared to five minutes hi so it just makes more sense financially if you're if you're looking to get those streams just to make it you know the easiest way in the in the cheapest way possible so unfortunately I think that's part of what we're seeing the fallout from the way that attention spans of shortened and that's just where we're at now in army from where I see it name if I can ask you to chime in on something that the professor mentioned in terms of the racial composition of arm be today one listener tweeted don't forget about blue eyed soul like Alan stone and Sam Smith love love love those falsettos name it there's a tendency in some cases for black pop artists to be characterized as R. and B. singers like beyond say like Riana how do you see that that link between R. and B. black culture particularly when non black people make R. and B. music or music with labels aren't well I mean the first thing I want to say is that white people making so music is not new the last song was was coined in the sixties right and it and it's always been and it's also always been something that we can send it with since the days of you know talk very stand Elvis told us that his style there are some artists who respect the roots of of the of the soul music and those are like a Daryl hall I like the Tina Marie who never was a pop artist ever she always was always on the black music charts and then there are some artists like like a Justin who people feel like you know they took all the elements of black music but they don't actually like give appropriate you know honor and credit to to the artist at that they're emulating I do think that that I think Tom said this earlier if you are a black artist in you saying they just want to call you army and so what has happened is starting in the eighties black artist started working even harder to appeal to a pop audience Motown was pop music I mean it was sell music but Barry made a pop label and purpose he wanted the music to cross over and in doing so there's been some kind of removal of like the kind of great and underbelly of truth this and distilled soul music Beyonce I did start as R. and B. artist but now she is a pop artist I mean but the other thing is that in in terms of just like Namik later pop music Disney's popular music like technically right now rap music is pop music because it's the most popular largest selling format but we on it was never RB artist shoes always a pop artist you know or at best a dancehall artist slash pop artist I don't again I I think it's it's on us and on the way the industry has kinda conditioned us to want to label everybody asks something right where they said on the radio where do I find a mini music been what play list are they going to go on I tunes and that kind of forces people to classify folks somewhere I'm Joshua Johnson and you're listening to one a several of you talked about the meaning and the content of the music in terms of what you like or don't like Lamar tweeted the eighties and nineties were some of the best years they had real meanings today's armed B. is very complicated and Judith emailed focus is a beautiful song but I understood very few of the words this is how you lose some hip sixty six year olds professor good but what about that the meaning the lyricism of R. and B. today versus yesterday well I think the lyrics have changed I think part of that comes from hip hop we're still struggling with some of the language that is used that has been used in hip hop that has filtered into that is filtered into song RB music and hip hop also has R. and B. routes because almost all of the earlier hip hop and rap songs that came about in the.
"professor goodman" Discussed on 90.3 KAZU
"Dot org comment on our Facebook page or tweet us at one Hey this maybe a hard question to start with because for those who love this genre it's almost kind of vestigial it's it's as close to you is your finger prints but I would love to know from each of you how you got into this genre if there was one particular artist or group who hooks you and made you know that are in B. was something that was meaningful to you nine a Cochran what about you let me start with you I grew up in it my uncle was a session player for the Commodore as my father was a tenor saxophone player and my mother was that my mother and stepfather about audio files so we just had the music in the house all the time and I was I am a Gen X. there and I was in high school and early nineties and basically you play the radio all day once we got home mom this is before streaming and before you know even CD's so that's what you did you played the radio you watch the videos and we all went to sleep with the quiet storm and you know with arm be music and that was just what we live with it was the sound track I can't remember an entree point it just was always there Tom what about you for me army was a John I gravitate to just because it made me feel something I remember going up listen to hot ninety seven and BLS here in New York and the music the lyrics it spoke for me it it said but I want to say in each song whenever I heard songs in the nineties and really made me feel a certain way and that's why I like to get a music so for me that's why gratitude to arm be the most professor Goodman well I I have to vested interest in it one is that I grew up listening to it certainly listening to Aretha Franklin and James Brown and later Shaka Kahn and then I wound up working with Chaka Khan writing a hit for her entitled you can make the story right also I grew up listening to Roberta Flack sang background for her for ten years because I listen to their music Shaka and Roberta and so many of the other people I've worked with before was professor I I knew their music backwards and forwards because I had listened to it was so in love with it when I was growing up so therefore when I got to to the Shaka Kahn rehearsal there was a song that was to be the that the the next single on our CD which I had co written called you can make the story right and I started singing along and I knew every every this was just a rehearsal I wasn't conscious to saying or anything and and I knew every lyric to every song and socks as well what are you doing tomorrow yeah can you can you be on a gig tomorrow and I salute a hero had to be with Roberta Flack the day after but yes I can do your gig and then so we went back and forth but what I'm trying to get to is that I was such a love their music and it had been played around our house hold for so long and a final for so long that was at an education for me yeah nine what is the R. and B. landscape look like these days how would you describe it what about the I think we're at the top of a renaissance era farm be for about the past decade arm be has almost been a bad word in urban music and and black music has been a bad word has been up for bid in phrase for as long as there's been black music but in quote unquote urban music people have wanted to brand themselves as alternative soul or email soul or basically anything except arm be it's it's just been a discarded genre but now with artists like her in day you'll see there and are you listening so you just played and what summer Walker just marking the highest one week debut for a brand new R. and B. artist female artist I think that we're seeing a turn to come back to a place of appreciation and respect for the genre what was the name of that made it such a bad word what what what was the that was the problem honestly I blame radio it's always been a problem like radio is actually who dictates in my opinion how we boxed these formats up and every since the conglomeration of our medio between separating urban adult and urban main urban main being like the hot ninety sevens like the temp file a younger listening audience urban adult being the place where Luther Vandross and Anita Baker and you know now you know prime night Mary J. Blige go being the place for like bigger voices and and ballads and slower tempo there's been like a kind of if you're too mainstream arm be your old folks music or what they might now call auntie and uncle music and that's a slower moving chart it's a it's a slower selling chart and so labels want music that's going to go to the format that's gonna sell records so people have hesitated to call themselves R. and B. labels have hesitated to want to embrace our M. P. because aren't be in their mind doesn't sell records what about you are you hearing a particular sound dominating the charts right now yeah for R. and B. it's more of a vibe you sound a where you know beats is is more the focal point where vocals are really kind of on the back burner to some you can buy it too and I think it's although to speak about the landscape we've gotten to this point you know aren't be is more strong than it has been in the mainstream in in years you know for so many years I grew up R. and B. was a dominant genre of hip hop and then at some point hip hop became the dominant John when we had our be trying to catch that so we had our be influenced by hip hop in the sounds were kind of a lot different than we were used to going up but I think we can some of the artists coming out now are finally getting back to the influences of the greats of years past which is great to say I'm a still is a sound like exactly what when I was you know listen to growing up at least we're getting some of that back so I think are in B. as in a stronger place that's been in the past decade and Tom could you help draw some of those lines in terms of as you see it what distinguishes R. and B. from hip hop or pop or other genres like how do you know which one you're listening to really it's the lines are blurred and they have been for some time because you had hip hop artists singing and they would call that are and be you had any black artist who would choose a saying they would call the arm be even if it wasn't you know an artist like Khalid I don't necessarily call an RB artist he goes in many different genres but they just box them into our and be so I think we're finally starting to see some some of the the lines get less blurred some of the artists are are claiming that are and be crowned you know her in and and Ella may and he even in our second go a lot there it's sticking more to that more soulful sound that was prominent in years past we're starting to see it separate a bit so it's good to see right now yeah was LMA came up with several of you in terms of the artists that you like Renaldo tweeted my current arm be play list includes Anderson pack Eric Robertson LMA at a constant flow of eighties and nineties hits got to have some guy and Keith sweat in the mix for those of you who are not familiar with her let's play a piece of one of her tracks this is boot up by element okay so once you my air.
"professor goodman" Discussed on 1A
"In our psychology I don't necessarily call an artist he goes in many different genres but they just box them into our and be so I think we're finally a father Aww the wrong song there's so much great R&B there's so much good music it just washes over you and sometimes you know it's my fault I hear on that was actually eh he's UK help make safer journeys for everyone verse starters all drivers are background checked before their first ride and screened on an ongoing basis and now or has introduced a brand new safety feature called ride check which can detect a trip goes unusually off course and check in to provide support to learn more about Uber's commitment to save not visit Uber Dot com slash safety here's some of what's at stake the next Democratic presidential debate Elizabeth Warren is on the Bryce but is she the new front runner Bernie Sanders makes his first major appearance since his recent heart attack Joe Biden is now at the center of the teaching story the NPR politics podcast will be there after the debate to break down all the moments that matter this is one A. I'm Joshua Johnson discussing the state of R&B Music With Naima Cochrane Tom Leo of the music site you know I got soul and Professor Gabriel Goodman from the Berkeley College of music we just heard focus by her glad to hear there's some of you are fans of her including Cynthia who emailed having grown up in a household where sounds of motown filled the air I have a great appreciation for the classics being Gen xer I loved the classics as well as artists from the nineties like Jodi S W v a new addition I must say that artists such as her are Lennox are keeping aren't alive and relevant as promised let's get back to that track that I mentioned earlier here is boot up by element it is in a when Moyer do some to me again yeah that's Buddha by thanks to those of you who called out that particular track Andrew emailed I'm a lifelong fan of genre with a collection of almost three thousand albums classic and contemporary from Fan's perspective the past decade has been a golden age for this music contrast that with Charles who like the music a little more virtual Charles emailed spotify has a great current acoustic R&B playlist professor. I'd love to get your sense of how the genre has changed in arms of production we had a listener called in to talk about the instrumentation of R&B these days. Here's what Marvin from Michigan left in our inbox I'm fifty two years old and I'm also fishing and one of the things that true me to be a musician romanticism that existed between musicians when they're playing on state if you look back at commodores Ohio player I earth wind and fire those chemistry between the musicians that one listening could pick up on and what drew you into the Music Naima with regards to this production aspect of it how does it really does it make a difference if the technical way in which the music is made is not the way it was made when Marvin Gaye was in the studio I mean don't genres has to adapt with their fan bases genres do have to adapt what their fan bases but what you've lost is on what you're what the caller said was like the chemistry between and musicians and artists they used to take place in a studio session players in there together kind of playing with each other or you had the producer in the studio width artists working on the music together now the producer can email attract artists can later vocals program to music it all comes together an pieces and there's a lack like the song may still sound good but there's a kind of heart missing from it I used to get from music back in the day the other thing is that advances in production have led to a decrease instrumentation because if you can program those sounds why am I paying day rates for all of these players to come into the studio for however many days right so and labels don't necessarily want to lay out that budget the decline in Physical Sales WanNa lay out that budget to pay that kind of money to have artists on a roll with the full band or put session players in the studio for Live Music etc so yeah even though you have to adapt the same as as you know adaptation and industry leads to loss of jobs for actual physical people there humanness loss you know we've heard from a number of musicians on this score and also on just the changing nature of the Genre Jim tweeted in the sixties and seventies I played bass backing upgrade R&B ax in my hometown of Philly. I feel like the more they produce auto tuned beat boxed over compressed tracks the more they lose the individuality of it human beings behind the song I'm sticking with my old oldies Tom Leo. I'd love you to respond to that because there was a time in which all the technology allergy that went into R&B Music was novel it was cool it was part of the sound you could have artists that use of auto tune and or vo coded music where you hear someone kind of speak singing in high pitched electronic sound were that was considered knew it was the cutting edge it was parcel foreign be and now it's kind of reason for some people to say I'm GonNa stick with the oldies what's that about the technology kind of jumped the shark at some point or is this just the generational way that parents always disliked their kids music well a lot of has to do with the way that genre has changed and attention span ends have shortened I call it the I tunes effect where you could listen to thirty second snippet of a song and then make a decision if you like that song or not an army historically as John is not meant to be consumed that way so in effect the genre suffered and now we're getting songs that are very much shorter in length they they no longer have bridges it doesn't make sense wants to bring in live instrumentation it's just too costly and you know you could stream song twice as many times if it's two and a half minutes compared to five minutes so it just makes more sense financially if you're if you're looking at those streams just to make it you know the easiest way in the in the cheapest way possible so unfortunately I think that's part of what we're seeing the fall now from the way that attention spans of shortened and that's just where we're at now in our MBA from Westwood one listener tweeted don't forget about blue eyed soul Allan Stone and Sam Smith Love Love Love those falsettoes ninety there's a tendency in some cases for black pop artists to be character arised as R&B singers like beyond say like how do you see that link between aren be- black culture particularly when non in the sixties right and it's always been and it's also always been something that we contend it with since the days of Chuck Berry Elvis his style there are some list who respect the roots of of of this old music genre like a Daryl Hall or like Tina Marie who never was a pop artist ever she always was always on the black music charts and then there are some artists like Justin who people feel like you know they took all the elements of black music but they don't actually like give appropriate you know honor and credit to artists that that they're emulating I do think that that I think Tom said this earlier if you're a black artist and you saying they wanNA call you are and be and so what has happened is starting in the eighties black artists started working even harder to appeal to a pop audience motown was pop music I mean it was so music but Berry needed a pop label on purpose He wanted the music to cross over and in doing so there's been some kind of removal of like the kind of grit unser belly of true under stilled soul music beyond say did start as an artist but she is a pop artist I mean but the other thing is that in in terms of just like pop music just popular music technically right now rap music is pop music because it's the most popular largest selling format but Riano was never rb artist she was always a pop artist you know or at best to dancehall artists slash pop artists I again I think it's it's on us and on the way the industry has kinda conditioned us to want to label everybody s something right where they sit on the radio where do I find them in the music Ben what playlist they're going to go on itunes and that kind of forces people to classify folks somewhere several of you talked about the meaning and the content of the music in terms of what you like or don't like Lamar tweeted the eighties and nineties where some of the best years they had real meanings today's R&B very complicated and Judith emailed focus is a beautiful song but I understood very few of the words this is how you lose some hip six eighty six year olds professor goodman what about that the meaning the lyricism of today versus yesterday when I think the lyrics had I think part of that comes from hip hop we're still struggling with some of the language that is used that has been used hip hop that has filtered into that is filtered into song rb music and hip hop also has to be roots because almost all the The earlier hip hop in rap songs that came about in the eighties for samples of James Brown so you cannot disconnect that they're the connection between the on Ras yes lyrics have been corrupted and that's that's the best way I can put it but not everyone is using corrupt lyrics as I said before or you know boot up is is is well it's it's it's a fun song you know it's fun Vibe so so-called Song but then there are other lyrics that there are other songs that contain lyrics such as let's sex by a trash can have a serious problem with why because you have young girls listening to that who may think and young boys by that what by that matter who think that that is okay and that is not okay at ten to DC Allieu and dehumanize people and if we have young and especially in the African American community who need to be fortified and built up there listening to something like this and they're in fact being torn down so we have all kinds of lyrics out there there are some that are okay some that very demeaning and demoralizing some of that again you know goes to the taste of the listeners some you know the record companies are pushing certain things and then of course they have to get it on the radio so we're pushing what's popular so to speak and so there's a big conundrum with all of those things that once talk more about radio play in just a minute but Tom I'd like to get your opinion on this as well I mean I understand the argument about lyricism about meaning on the the other hand I don't know anyone who hated the song untitled how does it feel by de Ngelo no one knows what he said no couldn't recite the lyrics to if I paid you thousand dollars you couldn't recite it without googling it I don't know one person who would say well that really doesn't count because of the lyrics I think Tom in addition to just the complaints or the critiques about the artistry they're the flexibility in terms of the definition has always evolved has always had outliers and now in retrospect it's easy to create a more chemical definition when we know we wouldn't it victory Angelo right exactly I mean the way I look at it you know the lyrics I it's like where's the love I mean I grew up when army was loved music can now it's kind of evolved to lyrics can't really relate to I never wanted to be that grumpy older guy who like all my generation's music is better than this current generation this is all trash that at all but but it's just evolved and it's you know I almost don't WanNa put you know these current day artists in the same categories at the Angeles just a different style of music yes it's mostly rooted in rb music but it's it's not the same thing to me so that's part of the challenge faced with when trying to classify you know different artists and what's what is you know it's it's it's just different to me in terms of the love theme Seraya wrote on Our facebook page the quiet storm was a part of my evening ritual at Temple University also in Philadelphia when the secret garden came on for your Promo while I was driving home I was taken back to an R&B was actually romance same themes mind you just a less course way to say what you need no imagination to say today the quiet storm is one of the most successful radio formats in broadcasting history it's one of the sign post one of the cornerstones of rb music we'll talk about that when we continue with.
"professor goodman" Discussed on 1A
"This is one A. I'm Joshua Johnson in Washington don't adjust that dial depending on when you were born and what station you listen to this may be the typical sound you'd hear when you listen to music on the radio but if you're listening to a station geared toward a younger audience you may hear something different it takes the week way Ashmead us that's B. M. O. by Ari Lennox rhythm-and-blues better known as R&B has changed a lot over the years The registers are higher the production elements more prominent and other genres are starting to have a lot more influence from hip hop to alternative to `electronic what's the current sound of our and be what do we gain when the genre changes and what did we lose joining us from NPR and New York to discuss this is Naima Cochran she's a former music. active and currently is a music and culture writer Naima Welcome to one A. Thank you for having me also at Npr New York is Tom Leo the CO founder and CEO of you know I got soul uh-huh website covering R&B. Tom Welcome thanks for having me glad to be here and in Boston Gabrielle Goodman is a professor of music in the Voice Department at the Berkeley College music Professor Goodman glad to have you with us thank you for having me it's a pleasure to be here this may be a hard question to start with because for those who love this genre it's almost kind of vestigial it's this is close to you as your fingerprints but I would love to know from each of you how you got into this genre if there was one particular artist or group who hooked you and made you know that are in be was something that was meaningful to you name Cochran what about you let me start with you I grew up in my oncle was a session player for the commodores my father was a tenor saxophone player and my mother was a my mother and stepfather were both audio files we just had the music in the house all the time I can't remember an entree point it just was always there tom what about you for me RB was agenda I gravitated to just because it made me feel something I remember growing up listening to hot ninety seven and be a less here in New York and the music the lyrics it's spoke for I said what I wanted to say in each song whenever I heard songs in the nineties and really made me feel a certain way and that's to get music so for me that's why I gravitated that'd be the most Professor Goodman well I I have to vested interests in it one is that I grew up listening to it certainly listening to aretha Franklin and James Brown and later shock Akon and then I wound up working with shock con writing a hit for her entitled you can make the story we right also I grew up listening to Roberta flack sang background for her for ten years because I listen to their music shocker and Roberto right and so many of the other people I've worked with out before I was a professor I I knew their music backwards and forwards because I had listened to it. was so in love with it when I was growing up so therefore when I got to to the shock of Con- Rehearsal they there was a song that was too the the the the next single on CD which I had written called you can make the story right and I started singing along and I knew every every this was just to rehearse missile I wasn't a contract with the singer or anything and and I knew every lyric song and Chaka says well what are you doing tomorrow kid you can you be on take tomorrow and I absolutely you know have to be with Roberta flack the day after but yes I can do your Gig and then so we went back and forth but what I'm trying to get to is that I was such a fan of their music and it had been played around our household for so long and I sang for so long that was an education Russian yeah now what is the R&B landscape look like these days how would you describe it whereabouts I think we're at the top of the Azzawi era for our MB for about the past decade R&B has almost been a bad word an urban music and black music has been a bad word has been a forbidden phrase for as long as there's been black music but in quote unquote urban music people have wanted to ban them selves as alternative soul or Imo soul or basically anything except our mb it's just been discarded John but now with artists like her and Daniel Caesar and Ari Lennox who you just played and with Summer Walker just marking the highest one week debut for a brand new our MBA artists female artist. I think that we're seeing turn to back to a place of appreciation and respect for this armor what was it Niamey that made it such a bad word what would what was the what was the problem honestly blame radio it's always been a problem like radio is actually who dictates in my opinion how we box these formats up and every conglomeration of urban radio between separating urban adult an urban main urban main being like the hot ninety seven's like the tempo the younger listening Audience Urban Adult being the place where Luther Vandross in Nita Baker and you know now Bryant Nightmare J. Blige oh being the place for bigger voices and and ballots and slower tempo there's been like kind of if you're too mainstream rb your old folks music or what they might now call Auntie and uncle music and that's a slower moving chart it's a it's a slower selling chart and so- labels want music that's going to go to the format that's GonNa sell records so people have hesitated to call themselves are ambiguous labels have hesitated to want to embrace our mb because aren't in their mind doesn't sell records and Tom Could you help draw some of those lines in terms of as you see what distinguishes R. and B. From hip hop or pop or other genres like how do you know which one you're listening to really the lines are blurred and they have been for some time because you had hip hop artists singing and they would call that aren be you had you know any black artist who would choose a saying they would call that army even if it wasn't you know you start to see some some of the lines get less blurred some of the artists are are claiming that aren't be crowned you know her and Ella Mae and even in our second galant there sticking more to that more soulful sound that was prominent in years past and we're starting to see it separate a bit so it's good to see right now you know it was Ella Mae came up with several of you in terms of the artists that you like Rinaldo tweeted my current rb playlist includes Anderson Pack Eric Robertson Ella Mae and a constant flow of eighties and nineties hit it's got to have some guy and Keith sweat in the mix for those of you who are not familiar with her let's play a piece of one of her tracks this is boot up by element they can okay you focus and an assault talking my ear queued Focus by her we will play Ella Mae in just a minute when we continue our conversation with music and Culture Writer Naima Cochran Tom Leo the founder and CEO of you know I got soul and professor Gabriel Goodman of the Berkeley College of Music Glad to hear from some of you about the other artists that you enjoy Derek tweeted my Go-to for current VR Brittany Howard Jill Scott and Dangelo other than that I tend to live mostly in the glory days of the seventies soul or the earlier classics like Ray Charles roles and Aretha Franklin I'm Joshua Johnson and you are listening to the soulful sounds so one aid from w. a. m. and Teal may support for this podcast and the following message come from Uber Uber is committed to safety and to continuously raising the bar to.
"professor goodman" Discussed on MSNBC Rachel Maddow (audio)
"It was just very important that they not see that document. Instead he offered to you guessed. It summarize the principal conclusions of the document trust him. You don't need to see the real thing. He'll just tell you. What's in it? As law professor and former defense department special counsel, Ryan Goodman writes this week at just security, quote, when the oil c- opinion was finally made public long after bar left office. It was clear that bar summary had failed to fully disclose the opinions principal conclusions. It omitted some of the most consequential and incendiary conclusions from the actual opinion. There was evidently no justifiable reason for having withheld those parts from congress or the public. Joining us now is NYU law. Professor ryan. Good man, he did service special counsel to the defense department during the Obama administration. He's now co editor in chief at just security, professor Goodman. Thanks for being here. Thank you. So I'm working off your work here. I didn't know this story about this. Oh, all see memo until you wrote about it. But I was fascinated to get back into that history. Let me just I ask you if I screwed any that up and telling that story, you think you lead political context extremely wheels to so one of the things that we learn from you resurfacing this story from reason history is that William bars been doing this for a long time. And that he is. I mean, we knew he was an experience Washington official. This tells us something specifically about his experience. But it also raises the question as to whether or not he might ultimately feel constrained in putting out a summarized or redacted version of a document if he knows that the ultimate document, the original document is ultimately going to come out. How did you come away feeling about that looking at this issue? So I think that's one of the most important insights from the. History is that when he is withholding from congress. I e tries to withhold the opinion. Then he says, I'll give you my summary of it. He must know that eventually it will come out. So what's most worrisome is that he must know that it will tarnish his reputation when the opinion finally does see the light of day. But I think he has a mission and the mission is to protect the White House and protect the president. So he knows by the time that this opinion might come out and he guessed right or he strategized correctly. It's three years later. The whole political issue has changed and it's a new administration. So he's moved on out of that job. He's moved on to other jobs, and it's small enough issue in its history that it doesn't end up tarring for life. If anything might even think that it proves himself, it proves himself to another administration the Trump administration. This could be your guy like he can do this kind of work for you. Because he's willing to put himself on the line. And he's this is pretty artful. What he did it's strategic deception, and I would think that if they knew about this history where there's every reason to think that they might have in digging up his history and under. Standing him. This would be the person for them. Does it? How does it factor into that sort of calculus that sort of strategic deception the prospect that Robert Muller might testify? This doesn't have a lot of attention. But I have been surprised over the last couple of weeks to see the.
"professor goodman" Discussed on WDRC
"Is a real pleasure to welcome to the program the chair of the history department at western Connecticut state university he's a, lawyer he's also a, PHD he's also the author of four other. Books but his most reason is Thomas, Jefferson revolutionary a radical struggled to remake America professor Goodman thank you very, much for taking the time I'm very happy to be here LARs so why do you, call him a radical Well because. His program remaking Virginia in America and do Republicans society was radical so we'll give you two illustrations of. That fact I a very fine. Historian named Holly brewer discovered about twenty years ago and published in an academic history journal that win the revolution started, about, two-thirds. Of, land. In today's, Virginia, belong, to, about, eighty, five families in, other words each of those families, owned about on. Average three hundred square miles of that in my little. State of Connecticut means half of one of the eight counties. Was owned by. Each of these families. And Jefferson thought well this obviously is not, conducive to Republican government it might be consistent, with having a monarchy but it's not consistent. With Republican government and the reason why these. Concentrated landholdings were living on generation after. Generation is that they had feudal land tenures Primogeniture which, said, the oldest son inherited the estate and, then tale which meant that even if you were the current holder of, one of these gigantic landed estates you could. Not. Alienate any of it that is a few, inherited it you couldn't sell any of it so Jefferson in seventeen seventy six proposed that Virginia's legislature newly independent abolished primogeniture entail which it did and by the time. Jefferson died these, landholdings had all been broken up so the old landed aristocracy in Virginia no longer existed that I put a radical reform another very important radical reform and this is one that we actually usually associated with Jefferson, was, establishing the colonial church which was the church. Of England course Virginians when they declared independence, weren't realizing that that was going to. Entail a lot of other reforms to so for example they didn't realize well we have this state church and The head, of it is the king of England so we're going to declare independence from the king of England we're going to have to reconsider having him. Be the head, of our church, Jefferson,.
"professor goodman" Discussed on The Brookings Cafeteria
"It significantly different in one respect in that even in russia there can be sociological and economic change and of course there has been what has not changed however is that the russian people are still stuck with a terribly authoritarians system of government so that the little bit of freedom that khrushchev gave them and that gorbachev in the 1980s i also dropped who is a yet as the soviet union dirt yes and garbage of in fact called himself a child of the '60s and that phrase meant that he was part of the khruschev era and garbage have tried to put more freedom into the system and he failed putin is totally different he doesn't field his job is to add freedom to the system is job is to keep the system together and in that way he has introduced a very sophisticated form of authoritarianism perhaps even you could say accurately dictatorship and that was not what khrushchev wanted he wanted to go the other way but putin has gone back to a more traditional czarist system of government i would end as you end the book with you retailing your encounter with edward r murrow where professor goodman's epa that creates good it began with you not taken a phone call right well what happened is that when i finish this assignment in moscow in january of nineteen fifty seven i went back to cambridge went back to harvard continue my work on a phd in russian history.