20 Episode results for "nathan"

Nathan Lane: 'The Birdcage'

It Happened In Hollywood

1:11:57 hr | 10 months ago

Nathan Lane: 'The Birdcage'

"The one's Seth Abramovitch here from the Hollywood reporter and chip Pope of the Pope family but the one pope the one the young pope now the new the new pope so welcome back and this week's guest is who I consider Mr her show Biz Nathan Lane. Yeah I didn't get to be here for the record that I was in Texas over the winter break during some standup but listening back to this. I wish I would have been there because it's such a fun interview. Oh my God we had so much fun together. Me and Nathan and chip is GonNa Listen along with you all of you and give his impressions and I consider him to be one of the most talented hilarious sort of iconic performers of his generation. Although I don't even know what his generation in is he's so timeless I feel like yes. He could have been a huge star in like the talking. Wani's yeah in the Twenties and Thirties in the fifties he just just has this timeless nature to him and it was a real treat to have him here and We'll get more into it right after the theme song on it happened in Hollywood Yeah that's me. What do you think of Nathan Lane? What besides how you mentioned trans-generational Yeah? That's pretty cool. That's pretty cool right off the bat. I really like a Nathan Lane a lot. Some in the producers users with Martin Short was fantastic back by this is probably like two thousand two or three at the pantages. Oh okay here in L. A. Edge. Yeah Yeah and it was a lot of fun. They were great team. Yeah he always really impressed me I think I I took notice of him when he was the lead Nathan Detroit in and Guys guys and dolls on Broadway. He Got Tony for that. Oh in fact. His real name is not Nathan. He took the name Nathan from the character. Nathan in Detroit. While it seems like he's secret at a lot of his life in a way that's you'll find out it's actually Joseph Lean. Joe Lane key is like Broadway legend. It's all kind of dislike mixed together. But he has a few iconic roles one you already mentioned the producers and the one. We're going to talk about today. Modern family oh no but he is on that he is on the no. No no no. We're going to do the birdcage. Yes the birdcage which is Mike Nichols adaptation from nineteen ninety six of La Casual. Full the French movie farce uh-huh which before becoming the Americanized version with Nathan Lane and Robin Williams. Liam says the GAY couple at the center of it became a Broadway musical called Kasha fall right but I think ever since he saw the original Mike Nichols wanted to make his version of this movie and this was his realization of that and a reunion with. Elaine may as old comedy Improv partner. They haven't falling out and this was their big re collaboration and it was a huge hit for both of them so a fun one to delve into. But since I had Nathan here you now I had a feeling he had a really interesting sort of origin story. So we're going to go a little bit backwards. WE'RE NOT GONNA go right into the movie I'd like for you to hear Nathan talk about. That's what is childhood was like growing up in Jersey City right across the river from Manhattan as a kid. I was given a lot of books by my the oldest brother Dan who eventually became a teacher and because my father died when I was eleven so I think he felt he had to fulfill that role in in some way and both he and an uncle of mine would give me books. As a young child so I was a voracious reader and I was fascinated by the Algonquin roundtable that group of witty writers and journalists who would gather at the Concord Hotel drink and make witty remarks and they were all desperately depressed tragic in some way in and yet they live this well at least from that perspective. Glamorous life in New York City so a New York City seemed very far away and exotic to me and reading about Also reading it was my brother my oldest brother Dan who also got me interested in the theater. He took me to the theater. He actually volunteered my services as as an actor as a kid college play that his friends were putting on so. I don't quite know why he decided that I would be involved in the theater. They may have been because then you know when I was around ten or eleven my both brothers. I have another brother and another older brother and middle brother Bob and they took me out and to throw a football around and then after about ten minutes I call them over and I said listen. I am not a sportsman. I said you know ten or eleven. So perhaps he thought he thought. Well these sportsmen perhaps he wants to go into show business so yes. It all seemed very glamorous when you when you would you I would watch the Tony Awards and and And that seemed very very glamorous and I was very enamored of all those actors as Robert Preston Zero mastel and so I started reading plays as well. I joined a play of the month club. In fact called the fireside I'd theater owned the first play they sent me was the odd couple by Neil Simon and it was very exciting getting that I remember looking at the Black and White Martha swope photographs. Art Carney and Walter Matthau and reading it and reading it in geography class of you know I had this. I stuck the play inside a book and was reading the Odd couple and you know burst out laughing and sister Liam Neeson's Jason Grabby said what's so funny. I said you know the the international dateline is imaginary Mary. She beat me senseless but certainly that was an influence on me. Neil Simon Eugene. O'Neill you know I. I just read a lot of plays and about the history of the theater and then eventually was doing I was doing plays in school and you know as as far as you know my home life when it was it was difficult. I M my father was an alcoholic who drank himself to death. When I was eleven and my mother not long after he died she was going through what what was then described as manic depression? But now we would call bipolar. But it wasn't diagnosed as such for several years and she was in and out of mental hospitals and and I had to grow up very fast so I'm sure it was also an escape. You know I was very interested in in in comedy as well in all you know they used to show on television old Laurel and hardy films or Abbott and Costello Jackie gleason and the honeymooners You know I was. I loved ABC gleason as a kid and I was sort of a student of all that I wanted to read about. All you know the old silent comedians and I want to know all about got it and I'm sure it was an escape and comedy was certainly was used as a defense mechanism. I was a little chubby little kid and before anyone would would make fun of me. I would make fun of myself and sort of Classic Defense mechanisms did you that Seth did you. Make Fun of yourself for What what was your defense mechanism? No I made fun of other people he said I young prepubescent gay child and we still make fun of each other all the time on this show. We're working our yes. We're working out our but it was like authority figures and stuff like that. It wasn't like other kids. It was the teachers who I used to. I think make lives miserable. Yeah so it's sweet. When you know the ones when you hear people making fun of themselves I before somebody else can get to it? You know you hear about that. Yeah just to hear from Nathan you know. He had the classic upbringing of you know that there was a lot of pain. There are a lot of sadness and sounds like he also didn't fit in and And so he turns to comedy and drama and fantasy this sort of find some happiness there and right. His family was Catholic. Bright trip even though yeah I really thought he was Jewish because he does like Jewish. has that sense of humor. The borscht belt delivery right but has done so many things in Jewish parts. So I guess you know Max. Biaggi stock seems Jewish to me. Maybe it's just Mel Brooks. Everything seemed Jewish. He's Honorary Ju Yeah Okay. So Nathan is enamored with feeder and He starts getting involved in in smaller caller productions and theatre companies. Doing some stand up he finds a partner and they have a little like Nichols and may ask comedy routine and what Yeah. I thought that was wild. Opening for Eddie Rabbit and air supply crazy to think of Nathan Lane doing that and one recurring fien. You'll see in his story. Is that a lot of the people that he aspired to or just was a huge fan of he ended up collaborating with. So you know he had that Neil Simon play that he hid in his workbook at Catholic school. While he later ended up. Being in that. Play on Broadway and Elaine. May he wanted to be like Elaine. May Mike Nichols well. He he just happens to star in the show so there is this well. How did you put secret at it? Secret secret right He. He made it happen for himself. It's funny I tried to write down on time. And it just says secreted so you gotta be like Secret Secret Dash. Ed like he secret. Because it's imprinted doesn't it work. He secreted himself into the lives of these legends. But one interesting stop on the way to fame He got a good shot at a TV. Show with Dana. Carvey of all people and the story tells about this. I just thought was amazing. We gotta let you hear this one. I got got an audition and I got a job doing this. Situation Comedy for NBC. With Mickey Rooney and Dana Carvey called one of the boys along we did like thirteen episodes and not a very good show was a strange experience. I mean Dana was brilliant but He had some sort of deal with NBC. So he was he was attached to this thing and originally it was a show that was written for Jack Albertson but he died go. They got Mickey Rooney. Who is riding high again because of the black stallion and sugar babies and he was in New York doing sugar babies and thought in his spare time time he was that he was going to milk? This for all it was worth he would do. A Sitcom During the day doing eight shows a week remarkable remarkable and but this shop here in New York City. Got Me back to. You have been living here for about a year and then went back to New York to do this Sitcom Tom. We did thirteen episodes. So that's probably your big break would be the Sitcom though with Mickey Rooney deal. You would think but now they really wasn't Rawson very good. It wasn't And it was just a fascinating thing to be a part of because you had new show Business Dana Carvey and you had old show-business Mickey Rooney and he you know I just remember. Mickey didn't understand Dana. He liked me because I seem old school right comedy and it was something. He couldn't quite pinpoint did he. Tell good stories about judy or he was. You know just a a you could see what it is. The the emotional scars having to grow up in the studio system at MGM for in having been he would always please tell you he was the biggest star in the world and then it all went away so he was an immensely talented person and what he put his mind to it. He was a really good actor. And you know when you see him as a kid in some of these things with the movies with Spencer Tracy boy's town or or the the musicals Judy Garland. He was unbelievably talented but he was at that point he was revelling. I think in his this renaissance but also there was a tremendous tremendous amount of bitterness. Even though he had used to tell us that you know he had found God he was sort of a born again Christian but he was angry. The very angry guy and you know and he had reason to be you know. He went through a long time of wandering in the wilderness of show business in. Nobody wanted him anymore and he I think he you know there was a lot of drinking and a lot of dinner theater at that. He'd put behind him. And you know this story. I tell there's a story there. There were many Mickey Rooney Stories that we do ninety minutes. I'm Mickey Rooney but I don't think you want that but we had to film a little fifteen minute pilot presentation for the network to decide if we all had. Chemistry was all going to work. The saddle premise. Dana Dana played a college student who rescued his grandfather from a nursing. Home brought up to live with with him and his college roommate in a little apartment off campus and hijinks ensued. So you're the I was. I was the cranky Anki roommate uptight roommate and so we a terrible. It's a terrible show. Anyhow we were waiting to shoot with this little pilot in front of a studio audience and we were sitting in a in a little green room with Mickey and he was very quiet and then he turned turn to us and he said. Let me tell you something. This is going to be the most successful show in the history of television and so Dana. And I were looking like you gotta be. You're kidding. This thing is chiefly last thirteen episodes the greatest success in the history of television. He said we're going to be rich. We're GONNA make a lot of money. I mean a a lot of money or could it be so wealthy and then on our hiatus will will do a stage version of the TV show and we'll make even more money for for that. He's just because let me tell you something. And he's getting louder. Angrier I. Tina Turner made eight ZILLION dollars last year and Judy Garland died. A pumper offer so by now. We're back against all frightened in. There's a knock on the door. They say we'll be ready in five minutes fellas. He's okay thanks very much. He was just getting warmed up for the show but he was a complicated. Wow Complicated Matt okay. Now this is why you want Nathan Lane on your podcast. Mickey Rooney Stories McKee his head and spinning off thinking about all the money that he hasn't earned. Yeah I mean it's like it's just been sitting around for thirty years waiting. I come back to. He's GonNa milk every second of it. Well I think it was a bit of a cautionary tale for Nathan at that. Point is just on the verge of stardom what he didn't want to end up being even though he so admired this guy. Okay so you know. He paid his dues. Dot Show was not the launching pad. He thought it would be but he. You know he paid his dues doing off-broadway and then finally working himself up to Broadway. And his big breakthrough part was in this. Neil Simon play laughter on the twenty the third floor which was sort of inspired by Simon's Experience as a writer on your show of shows with Sid Caesar right with all those great riders that were on their Mel Brooks. Yeah I mean every covering classic Golden Age of TV comedy writer on that thing and it was just you know the the biggest show on TV. I guess Saturday night live would be comparison but it was bigger than that but anyway he ended up getting the part of Sid Caesar part which was totally casting against types. Caesar was six foot. Two two hundred and fifty pounds and Nathan is a lot smaller than that but he was so talented is his talent. was that a huge force that they kind of re conceived the part and give it to him. Wow and so he was the star of this thing he was the star of the show within the show and he was distorted show and one night someone very important came him to see it with his very famous wife. Kanye and Kim. No no Kanye and Kim. I was doing this play. And and Mike Nichols it came to see it i. I've been filming doing a film during the day and I sort of got there a little late. I didn't go on until a half an hour or so into the play and and and And I I actually you know I sort of looked out in the audience and I saw them I saw Mike Nichols Diane Sawyer and the audience and I had met let him briefly once before introduced by someone. And you know it's he's he was like a god-like figure and I knew he had seen me and other things but then I was very surprised. He came back afterwards. He'd never done that and he was very gracious And said I'd like to talk to you about a film and so I said sure and so I called him the next day and he he said I want to do this remake of Lakota fall. And a would write the screenplay and Robin Williams would play opposite opposite you and I said well which. which part are we talking about? Is this the drag queen. And he said yes I said over. That's that's a very good part. He said yes. That is very good part and so that's how it began. It's a long complicated story. Because initially they were going to make this film with Steve Martin Martin playing the Armand Character and Robin was GonNa play the character that I eventually played and then Steve couldn't do it couldn't get out of hand another commitment and couldn't get out of and then Robin decided he had been dragging. Mrs doubtfire would prefer to play the more restrained role and not getting address and then that part opened up and somehow he thought of me but I you know. Do you know the history of Lakota. Phone you the play paying French film. was these two guys and interestingly accommodate team Jean Poiret and Michelle Sorrell and they were very successful comedy team. Who Did television and then John Puri wrote this farce this French farce and they did it on stage for like eighteen hundred performances and then made this film and something I was reading was I? I find this really interesting when they made. They made the film and courageous. Wrote Co wrote the screenplay with Francis Vapor and the producer. But I think it was Francis Vaber who included these two rather T- scenes scenes in the movie. 'cause when I saw the movie in the in the late seventies in New York it was sort of I thought it was just so subversive what they dot because it was just it looks. Looks like a French farce. But you know the the gay people were the heroes and the straight people were the villains and I thought this was you know it was just and it was also hilarious but they added these two scenes in it that I thought were crucial. Which one was the The seen it in. I think it's at a train station or a bus stop. And then the bird cages at a bus stop. I think where he's GonNa go off to the cemetery to die and he stops him and he follows him. Instances sits down with Eh. You can't I can't I'll I'll have to be buried there too because I I can't live without you and then there's another scene where what he comes out in a plain suit and this is I just want to help you know. And he's tried to be all just aware this dark suit and these were still wearing pink sock in the same exact same seed in in the original French Phil and apparently the Michelle's zero who was so brilliant in the original who. I stole anything. I could from him because he played you know for years onstage was. He was slightly miffed about this. had been strictly a farce was a little annoyed by having to humanize these this Flamboyant character and yet they're two of his greatest scenes and it and it also just adds so much indeed indeed and watching the birdcage birdcage and probably twenty years. That's the thing about those scenes that do make the film a little deeper. 'cause I recently recently watched the film and that team that's running. I bet this is like right halfway into the movie and sure enough it is time wise. It's like sixty minutes into a two hour movies. The Classic mid point of movie The tone of it is a little bit different than everything else and it really deepens the movie but it illustrates what Mike Nichols was so great. What about and Elaine May in comedies that they do they would play it for laughs but it would always be grounded in a in a real reality so it never got two out of control to where it seemed unbelievable? You know they just have a good sense of walking that line between the farce and keeping keeping it real that you still believe in the characters. Yeah and you know to his credit. He left both those scenes in pretty much exactly as they were in the original film because he knew how at work yeah you do get very invested in their very real relationship. And that's what makes the movie work just moving along. So he gets offered the part but he had committed mid to be in another big broadway. Production of a funny thing happened on the way to the forum which was to be produced by Scott Rudin. Who's produced many films and Broadway Rodway shows and He thought he couldn't get out of it so he turned the part down but Mike Nichols was determined to have him and he finally just said Mike. Why don't you go talk to Scott? Rudin you're kind of a big deal. I'm not quite a big deal yet. And he did and they agreed to do the show and a year later which helped to show it did really well and Broadway because at that point he was now a movie star because of the birdcage. So all well that ends well but he did have hesitations because this was a very it. Openly gay unapologetic drag Queen. Part and Nathan was out I think from the age of twenty one. He was out to his family but as a professional actor actor he wasn't and the idea of now being a movie star internationally recognized movie star whose out made him a little jittery. I abandoned in and movies but I only in small supporting roles or so. Yeah I mean I did think oh well. I'm going to be an address. It's it's such a great part and you're working with legendary. Nicholson May to me. Were you know they just as a team that was one thing so the notion of them having this reunion she had helped him out They'd been estranged for a long time and then she had helped him out on this movie wolf. which wasn't going so well was an unhappy experience? And so they kinda really totally reunited the United on this. They had always wanted to do this. They loved the plot one of the great comedy plots of all time. And so I think Mike frankly just yes. He wanted a big fat commercial hit and he had a one point. You know there was the musical the Jerry Herman musical had been very successful and at one point he tried to do. There was a version of Lucretia fall that they were going to do that. Mike was going to direct which was was a totally different. I think it was. I'm I want to say it was Maury Yeston wrote a score and we sat in New Orleans and was called the queen of Basin Street and and then that did workout workout. And then Jerry Herman did it was huge success so this always sort of been on his radar and so to work with them. You Know Elaine Elaine. May He's just one of the most extraordinary talents ever and and Robin. Who was you no so incredibly generous and and one of the sweetest most sensitive souls and just a perfect collaborator Braider and partner and I was a very very lucky to have had that and everybody was one you know my always used to say Nathan? I only want nice people on this. Okay seems like a good idea. I- Nice people are Nice. People are good. That's helpful. Okay so I guess not everyone knows what Nichols and may is so for. Our uninitiated chip are resident Comedy Librarian wound. Can you can you get on the rundown on Nichols and may pretty much the Nichols and may in the early sixties were the toast of Broadway. They did improvisations which was new and interesting stain. Exciting you know Chicago Chicago idea and a would turn these improvisations into stage. Show so they would come. Mm Up with the sketches a Lotta Times improvisation and then turn them into full on two persons sketches and so they did a lot of these sketches on TV shows on like Jack Parr show show and stuff like that where they would just go and do like a seven minute sketch and it was that kind of humor. It was revolutionary at the time because it was character based it was not as broad had very dry d comedy had been so it was more in that kind of like Bob Newhart cerebral low key. Yeah there was some amazing very very subtle humor happening in the early sixties. Mike Nichols and Elaine may welcome to long all help you. I'm interested in the sixty five dollars funeral. It was that for yourself for another. May I ask where did when you catch that Ad. TV and then they had a falling falling out. I'm not sure if he went off to direct movies after the falling out at this got to be that way right well Nathan knows about the falling out so we'll let him tell a little bit more about that but I he's GonNa talk about his first time meeting. Elaine may who was just this giant towering figure in his life until that moment and this is their meeting I was holding this screenplay and my hands because I read it. I thought it was great. She looked to be sort of mock exasperation. And said I did the best dyke could. I said well I think you did better than that. I think it's great that you know. It is wonderful to see them together. Mike and Elaine and how protective he was of her and and not that she needed protection. But you know she's a brilliant woman but it was great seeing them together. I remember when we had dinner once where I had brought. My Nicholson may record and ask them to sign it. I think people forget that they had had a falling out. Yes yes I mean I think they I think they would talk. Maybe on the phone. You know it's too had such a bond was to do the way they exploded when they first came to New York after Chicago took Broadway by Storman the records and TV appearances and the yen and they changed the face of comedy. They were so original but Yes they had done a play. She'd written a play that he started in and and then it was. It was a disaster and then he had a clause where he could get out of it or something and it was that that sort of led to falling out. Eventually she did that that play again and then renamed it was called Taller than a dwarf. Can I think Matthew Broderick starred in it and it didn't go well that time it's poison. Whatever brilliant she was this thing didn't work so yeah they had a bit of a falling out and you know what I think? They both had to find their ways. You know he would have happily gone on as part of the comedy team. And she didn't want to do the same thing over and over. She wanted to explore an improvising revising. He likes polishing it and presenting it. And you know what's so bad. It's and they're loving it so but alleged. It's sort of what that the break-up that you'll also led to him directing having this tremendous careers director in her own directing and writing so they broke up in nineteen sixty one which is crazy because they had just started getting really popular nineteen sixty. Wow and then That's like compare that to a rock band. It's like the Beatles broke up in one thousand nine hundred sixty two but anyway he. He wanted to direct shows and he went out to be a director and of course you know. He turned his Directing Broadway shows into movies movies. Who's afraid of Virginia? Woolf his first movie the graduate cash wanting to carnal knowledge angels in America is in America which fantastic. He's he's really. He's one of the best directors that this Loeser with Portman. Closer great movie underrated movie but he is you know not from this country but yet he's one of the top American directors of all time but anyway they broke up until the birdcage which is what sixty one thirty five years later her. That's that's kind of crazy that they didn't work together for thirty five years. Yup the main brought them back together filming the birdcage. Now in Miami and I think on sets sets in Hollywood and quick rundown this plot it's basically They they run a crossdressing. Drag Club like rupaul drag race to our younger listeners and The husband is the owner. He's the more masculine of the to you you know. It's kind of old old-fashioned takes on gay couples where one is the man and one is the woman so they're married they have a long beautiful relationship. The Drag Queen half of the couple full. Who is sort of the the emcee star of this drag review very dramatic and take into fainting couches and very diva kind of behavior savior and then hype that does exist in reality trying to ruin me? Don't look at me hideous hideous fat too hideous so I hate my life. Patout cuts all I am to you. Isn't it a meal ticket. Never mind about my feelings. Things never mind about my suffering. It's just about your show not even our show your show. Well I WANNA palimony agreement and I want one now oh. I don't palimony agreement on me right now tomorrow ranked. Don't use that tone to me. That sarcastic contemptuous tone. That means you know everything. Because you're a man then I know nothing because I'm a woman. Not a woman she bested. The husband is trying to keep everything going at the club and they're very popular. They have a beautiful life and they have a son. The Robin Williams care the Robin William's character has a son from a previous little affair with Sergio Christine. Christine Brandy remember their names either. A very eighty maternal person who happened to give birth to this son the son reappears he. He has a fiancee and he's asking the parents the fiance's parents are very conservative. He's asking can we tone it down. Maybe even pretend like oh you're straight yes and it leads to this big comedy of manners a farcical dinner scene where the drag queen character comes out in drag drag. And they think it's a woman. hijinks and hilarity ensues. Mom is much more sophisticated than I am but then he comes from such good stock just like these two youngsters. Don't you agree I'll show you. That's okay that's okay. I like mother home and show me. Oh my dear. I'm not I'm only going to the bathroom asteroid willow go crazy together. All of us. I yeah but as we mentioned before the real heart of the movie is the relationship of these these two guys who really love each other and when it came out in the seventies and the French inch version and even in the nineties in this version. there was something kind of quietly radical about seeing two men love each other on screen. Yes now if you've been listening the season you you know we did the making love episode with Harry Hamlin and the world was not ready for a gay Serious drama dealing you know not poking fun and laughing at the idea have gay but birdcage was a farce. And so it did kind of play well in the Midwest people were it was very easy for them to laugh at these ridiculous characters in their dresses and their fainting fits. And all that kind of fit you know what people thought of as gay stereotypes and that Vattimo Rub some gay people the wrong way but one interesting case study is actually One of the characters in it who was played by Anka's area. Why don't we? I let Nathan Nathan explain a little bit about how hank got cast in the part of the houseboy. In this movie the initially it was based on the original play and filled. It was supposed to be an African American in the as the made and then suddenly when they had the read through everyone got a little uncomfortable. Won't even though it was. You know he was just this big screaming Queen and he was supposed to be funny. There was something about it. The make people uncomfortable and Hank Hank was doing like a number of different roles Mike was a fan of his from he had done. The Robert Redford film about A quiz show and he loved him in that so he had him read several different parts and one of them was the stage manager at the nightclub and for that you know because he's so brilliant dialects wchs invoices and. He talked in that accent that what became known as the Guatemalan and everything he said was funny so so they said. I don't think this is working so well. But the notion we're in we're in South beach and they have this Guatemalan Guatemalan servants. Made whatever you WANNA call. So that's how he wound up playing Aga- doors sparks spurred spirt. Hey Way and he was so yes. Hank was just brilliant. Everything every single thing he said to be was hilarious. Hilariously really funny. He also got himself all buffed up. I don't think he's ever been so buff. He had a run around in those little tiny Jean shorts and tank tops tops. He was great just great and that year. That was certainly a movie. That kind of really helped put him on the map to for them money money for them bad three me right. That's right so what did you think of the the good doors Spartak his character. You know what it's very broad against the I remember the first time I saw it. I thought that guy's hot and that was the extent of my cultural Appraisal of it which is not not proud of that but I guess viewed under today's light. You Know Hanke zero. He's gotten in hot water for just playing other ethnicities is that he's not and sexual persuasions in this case but yeah he's obviously very talented. Very funny is really great at voices and accents accents tons of them on the simpsons. But Yeah in recent years his Abu Character on the simpsons has come under heat for being Both a racial stereotype and inappropriate for white person to be doing and You know there I understand phasing. The character out right this is similarly. He's blinking a very flaming gay airhead Guatemalan houseboy. And I don't know if it would really work anymore now wasn't wasn't quite as Hilarious to me as I think the first time I'd seen it. No there'd be like an uproar for good reason because say you are a gay Guatemalan watching something watching this. You'd be like wait. What was the guy from New Jersey or something from and what's so funny about being a flaming Guatemalan? Yeah I mean. I don't find it funny. But that's we're in the identity politics era now right. We're making fun of someone's with Mississippi and or sexuality is not Kosher Kosher but in the nineties it was still okay where he could be Guatemalan. And you think it's hilarious. I mean this this thing about life like we always go well. What about that but you know the person that is supposed to be portraying go? I love that. I think that's my favorite thing. So this is why times are always so confusing personally. I thought Hank as areas was amusing but A little bit grading after a while I preferred Nathan Lane's performance. The part of that is because Nathan Lane is maybe authentically a gay man. Yes but he wasn't out at the time of the movie coming out and he actually didn't come come out till nineteen ninety nine visually and he was very open about talking about His thinking as to why he came out at that time and how he came came out. And here's here's him on the subject of coming out as a celebrity you know I came out when I was twenty one to my mother and my family everyone knew and certainly everyone in New York new but yes this notion of coming out publicly is if I was a public figure because I didn't feel like a public figure but the no one really been that interested in my sex life up until then this film happened in I was faced with You know suddenly I had a publicist and they had to say well. What do you want to do? You're about to walk you walk into a room filled with journalists and this is GonNa come up and I just said. I don't know if I'm ready me to have to start discussing this and I don't know whether I wanna be that. This is finally get a nice role in the movie and I wanted to be the about the acting and not coming out story and right or wrong. That was my decision but you know especially at that time. You've you know it's okay now for people especially straight people say. I don't like I don't want to discuss my personal life but then you might as well have said and by the way I like cock so it was useless. It was a useless thing then I was asked people forget this then I was asked by US magazine. Are you gay and I said I'm forty single and I work a lot in the musical theater. You do the math. What do you need flash cards? I thought I had come out but apparently I didn't. That wasn't enough. Finally I said okay. We'll do the advocate interview and and and then people were just annoyed that I came out. You know yeah we already knew fuck you. We're yeah so there was no winning now. In retrospect yes yes I I. Should've I should've gone with it but it was also intimidating and I honestly I was terrified and it was not you know people accused me of always going back into the closet. which certainly was or that you know? What does he think? He's going to become a leading man in movies and I wasn't that at all I was just the notion should've going into a room full of strangers and discussing. This was terrifying to me I had to go. I went on the Oprah with Robin and he and we discussed this before and I said I'm not ready to discuss. Whether I'm gay or not with Oprah I just I'm just not I can't. I can barely deal L.. With meeting Oprah let alone telling her I'm gay and If you ever see this thing it's she says to me something like a Oh you're so good at that girly stuff. Whatever it was and he robbed obviously sense that she might be going towards the sexuality questioned and he immediately swoops in and diverts the the interview away from that To protect me me which is so sweet. Yes but was it like when you realize that you had the role where you looking forward to the trip every day absolutely every day I asked my nichols I still have his rolled on. I really and it was a extraordinary to work with people that I starting with Mike Nichols who is sort of his legendary taking that role in being typecast when people forever saying are you are. You not changed just just in the middle of that sentence. I'm telling you out there. It was so what was the question. It's quite honestly I wasn't ready. I wasn't ready for any of it and and you know it's funny. There's there's a the only sort of uncomfortable moment moment in the making of it was the use of the Word Fag in the movie and and it was sort of a I said something about Alexander. The great was a fag or something like that. I said I think Robin said at once And I couldn't figure out why they wouldn't lie. Mike and Elaine wouldn't let go all of this because I said to them I said to Mike not not to Elaine but I said you know as the only gay person in the scene. I feel a little uncomfortable saying being this. I don't know why the character would be using that term and I don't know whether it was because it was from the original play or screenplay or whether it was they came up in a generation where fag was a viable punchline. I don't know but as I as I said I felt lucky just to be invited to the party. So it was very hard for me to to question him at all and this was a very sensitive thing and he said that we tried many different versions of the line and then and then he and then he did. The classic teacher said just do one for me in the original Lineman of course. That's what I was naive. I was just like it's my nickles. What am I you know? I'm just lucky to be here. And then and then of course then when it if it shown on television they have to bleep it and then the movie and come out and I was sitting in a cab and traffic in Manhattan. And there's a guy in a truck and I was just starting next to me and I was just starting to deal with L.. I seem people are recognizing me. I'm you know this is not happened before or you know occasionally you know people recognize you from the theater in New York That had happened but the fame thing was beginning to happen and there was a man and a truck and he looked at me and he smiled and he started pointing at me and he started to scream. Hey faggot he just kept saying Faggot like several times and I was like humiliated. Millie aided and I thought I wish I wish Mike was here for this It you know and it was sort of the other side of fame. Oh ooh that sounds horrific. Yeah it was awful with the happening a lot or now at at that. But I'll always remember that appleton. This is after the either. You know the movies come out. And it's successful and and this guy and you would you thought he was smiling and was just gonNA wave or stays up nights. And he's kept saying hey faggot. Well Yeah just pisses me off. Yeah it's like he makes big. He's like a movie star and he has to endure this kind of demeaning disgusting behavior from just some jackass in a car truck. Screw you whoever you are right okay. Well maybe they were covering up or something. And they and they learned the error of their ways later because people evolved. But it's a harsh word. It's a harsh word. Even if you've earned the right to use the word that's the problem word. He was the only one objecting to using it in in the script. And it's funny. I pulled up the Hollywood reporter review of the breakage and the word makes an appearance there although in his element and having no trouble making his portrayal of quote middle aged fag. Arnold Arnold into a memorable screen character headliner. Robin Williams is relatively subdued as the common responsible nightclub owner of a gay couple. So it's kind of like the movie is giving the media the right to use it and just kind of perpetuates itself like. Oh Yeah. That's okay to see out of east at it. I mean that's one thing that straight people don't always understand as good as their intentions. Are that when you you know the. There's always the thing with like well. Why can't and I say that you can say that but I also made the point to to Nathan that you know it? It did a lot of good for you know to open people's eyes to to gay relationships and he was mentioning before the scene in front of the boat at the bus stop was A very touching scene that I think move people and made them see. We seem sex couples as as as legitimate as opposite sex couples. Yes and it's also coded when you have Robin Williams doing it too. 'cause you go well. Oh He's not gay in other certain things that whether they work on an unconscious level or a conscious level but as the that review actually does point out. This is a good segue. Robin Williams did play against type in this movie and he played the more sedate. Straight man to. Nathan's you know over the top screaming. dragway tag we which was a change of pace for him because you knew what was inside that he was not letting out right and there are still a few Robin Williams type moments is that people expect. Yeah Actually Nathan tells a great story about working with Mike Nichols and probably the most famous single moment in the movie almost didn't make kit because Mike Nichols didn't think it was in character but Well we'll let them tell the story. When Mike was one of those people who as director he it was like you who entered into a love affair with him he loved the actors? He was so supportive and literally would sit in the video village watching and they'd have to put a blanket over for him because he would be laughing so hard scenes to keep them. Keep it quiet and you know. He's he was a a formidable intellect and wit. You you know there was also the part of that made you a little nervous. This was when we did the scene where I'm singing? The song of rehearsing the Song Brabin has written written. That's actually Steve. Sondheim road I'm seeing to this sort of beautiful guy in one of the dancers and he's chewing chewing gum and I'm upset by it so we were supposed to do this in a folder was going to be a sat in that I was going to be in full drag some interesting costume costume by an Roth and and that very morning Mike Suddenly said this is all wrong and he threw it all out so people were scrambling to come up with the costume and you know and so they put me in sort of flash dance rehearsal tolerance and and and that's where we gotta do the only real sort of in we rehearsed it like a play and so there were Robin had come up with this. You do an eclectic celebration of the dance. This famous Davis moment. where he he runs through different choreographers might like a kid? Martha Graham Martha Graham Madonna Madonna on Donna. But there was no ending to it. He just had this list of choreographers and then he was just going to walk away from it and then that morning Mike said he was whatever mood. This was which made him throw everything out and start from scratch. Maybe it was his improv background. He needed to do that. He was suddenly he. He seemed to be toying with the idea of cutting that that little Improv that it was out of character for for Robin's For Armand and so so he because it didn't have an ending and we stood there and it was very tense and we all were kind of trying to come up with something align joke and I said and then I finally said to Mike you know a director once said to me. I love what you're doing. But keep it all inside and he said yes they say that brought. So that's how we ended was. Yeah but you keep it all inside so you you save that bit which is an iconic bit. That's amazing with it. Hard for Robinson. Not do his his crazy Improv. We have we had a dinner After it was all over and he said it was very hard for him to watch me carry on in that way and you have to be the more restrained character but it I thought it brought out a wonderful things in him as an actor and he was very moving and very you know and he's he's he's he was incredible. What about me? What do I do just like an object? No you ECLECTIC celebration of events. You do Fussy Fussy Fussy. You do muscle Graham Graham Graham or twilight twilight twilight or Michael Kidd Michael. Kid Michael Kit Michael Madonna Madonna Madonna. but You keep it all inside very underrated up to that point as a dramatic actor because You look at something like world according to Garp. He's fantastic in Amancio grounded in but the flash. Your part was John Lithgow you know. Got The award and that one and so it would take audiences awhile to except problem Williams. AM says a serious actor and then the next movie after birdcage. Was Seth goodwill hunting. Yes Oh which he Wanted Academy workforce so but he had done good morning Vietnam which was kind of dramatic. That's true definitely like the last part. Good Morning Vietnam has very Dramatic he always walked that line where he can be just absolutely ridiculous hysterical but also make you cry at the drop of a hat. Oh we miss you Robin Nathan Nathan obviously had very close relationship with him working on this film and at feels very warmly towards him and He talked about their relationship after the filament home and also what he didn't realise was going to be there last time ever seen each other was shortly before a Robin's death on On a lot while they're both filming their respective TV shows. So here's Nathan talking about Robin Williams. Did you stay in touch with Robin after the film. Yes a little bit Yeah yes we would. I mean talk from time to time he was young he was always lovely and yeah I mean. I can't say that we became close friends. I mean he was was certainly a lovely working relationship and and he couldn't have been kinder to me I mean certainly he could have asked for anyway. I mean he could have said you know. We're GONNA make this big gay movie. Let's I need another movie star opposite me and he didn't you know he and I don't think he was that familiar with me I was really Mike's recommendation than I play. This part and he you know and then after I I read through he was just he. You know it was always incredibly supportive of me. And he was a very special person person But no we didn't keep in touch in that way you know. From time to time we talk on the phone But uh the last time I saw him. Actually I was I was doing. I did an episode of modern family and he was on the lot doing this. He did a Sitcom Sitcom For CBS Brad. Garret was in it and I so I dropped by and I saw him. We chatted they briefly he was in the middle of filming. So we couldn't really talk but we just said Hi and And there have been talk there was is there was always talk about doing a sequel. Someone was always suggesting this. It never happened because the original French film had to two two sequels with the second. One isn't so good. I mean the premises are kind of funny. The second one is literally like a spy thing they get involved with inspiring or something they put a you know a piece of microfilm in his. You know what it is crazy but there are some very amusing inset pieces in it and the two of them will go on Yahtzee Italian actor star and Michelle Cerro again Or hilarious a Senate and then the third one is. The premise is so good but the film isn't so great he did. He has to marry history a woman in order to inherit right all this money and they had the reading of the will and they say that he just faints more. So there was there was talk of doing a a sequel. But it never materialized and there was always some rights thing and then around that time There was talk about trying to because net flicks had started and there was a talk of doing. Could we do like a series of about you know using those characters listen and revisiting it now that they're older and and you know the kids have grown up and they have now they have grandchildren. And it's you know and gay marriage. It was the notion of. Could we do a movie about gay marriage with these two guys. We've been together so long and then it leads to them finally getting married and then but that that it never happened. Because of Robin's passing. So do you remember what you talked about on Moloch that day. Did you discuss those projects or all. Just you know it. Just I was just happy to see him and that I was I was a it. Seemed like the show was going. I'm very well. It had debuted to very good ratings. And I was just congratulating him and it was not you know he was literally in the middle of filming. They were like shooting scenes so he couldn't talk for what we while a little break he. We chatted in and so little. Could you ever know that it'd be the last. It's time you ever saw. Yeah Yeah Yeah yeah well and just the whole you know this this. What what he was going through this Lewy body not dementia? And and you know and I think Bobcat Goldthwait. Who is his best friend has talked about it? What do you know people? I don't think realized that he he was going through this. He had Parkinson's like symptoms and but that his brain was disintegrating. And it was. He was You know going through all this knowing where it was headed You know you just hate thinking about that. I mean it's hard to even talk about him in in the past tense. You know he was someone who was so alive and you know brilliant. I mean this extraordinary mind and his incredible. His soul is just is such a sensitive and almost too sensitive for this world. You know I I can remember. I can remember when when we there was a number that we filmed for the birdcage. Another Sondheim Song. I sang a song called. Can that Boy Foxtrot and the day I filmed it. We did the whole thing and with an audience and and he had the day often but he came in that day. 'cause he said he wanted to be there for me Per I for moral support. And so he was backstage. You're listening and he would be very encouraging and he you know he was awesome a great great human being and one of the greatest talents. Whoever lived sad yeah? It's very sad very sad that he's not here anymore. I can't believe it but he has left. You know tremendous legacy of great work brilliantly. Funny and wonderful acting. That's a great loss but you know it was really touching to hear how he showed up for his to see his song at. Yeah Yeah Shot. Even though he wasn't needed that day I mean that kind of is a great example of the kind of data. Yeah nobody does that Robin Williams did it. Those those are the kinds of stories that you can only get from these people that were there that you know it's amazing getting a little misty eyed but so the movie came out it was a big hit. I think it was like number one for five weeks or something. One hundred seventy million dollars crazy In today's money or nineteen nineteen ninety-six. Money that's definitely even ninety ninety six money. Wow that's really impressive for someone pull out the inflation calculator but Yeah I know it was. It was a big one and obviously sleet teed him up perfectly to become a major movie star. Everything was in place right. I mean he he totally killed it in his review review for the Hollywood reporter they said Nathan Lane is a triumph in the plum role of Albert. And just pretty because up to that point he had not had any big league Leading roles in movies and there is just holding his own with Gene Hackman. Diane Wise But Robin Williams of course it wasn't wasn't to be at least it's not according to him. It didn't turn out quite as he expected when it came to Nathan lanes movie career it. It didn't really lead to You know a kind of film career that I thought I might have afterwards. Just because you've got so much attention and I remember that afterwards I mean look. I've had a great career I am. It's still going very well but it was. There was a notion. Oh well perhaps this will lead to more film stuff and and I you know I did films but it never. It didn't really take off in that way Do you think that was homophobia. I'm sure a little bit. I'm sure it was a little bit of that. I was asked do the two I was. I was offered the two films after the birdcage. Because everyone sort of assumed that Oh you must be getting tons of offers. You're just sitting at home on a sheds going through scripts eating bon-bons and so no I got to offer was film called mousehunt which eventually made eight Korver Pinski Gaurav. Bensky's first film with wonderfully Evans and Chris Wilken which is a great film. It's fun it's a fun. Little God cult children's movie bizarre. He he made like a Cohen Brothers Moretti for children and I was offered Mr Magoo Okay and so I was supposed to meet with his director and they said I said well. What would I be you know? Would you shave my head in. Ib I be squinting. And he's a little old man you know it's all I remember is the the cartoon character. Jim backus. Are you George that bumping into things or other goods he was so that's right near side garbage. I would've loved all of that and I he said so it. It's that that's what you would have me. Do you put like a lot of prosthetics in me bumping into furniture and they kept saying no no no and no no. He's not nearsighted. It's just there's a whole new Mister Magoo and I said that's all Mr Magoo is. He's an old man who's bald and nearsighted did like Jim Backus and and so I said that doesn't make any sense to me at all. There's no character if you take all of that away. Hey what is he that. He's just called Mr Magoo put in what that doesn't make any sense but they offered me. There was a ton of money. It was the most money ever offered to make a movie so there was a you know there was a part of me that was maybe this work the amount of money I can make twenty twenty vision anywhere but he has twenty twenty vision and hair Anyway so I opted to do the only the only other option was mousehunt and because he seemed like a really interesting Guy Gore for been skiing very smart and talented. And you know. But he's only at that. Point is only his big claim to fame was he directed the Budweiser frogs commercials. Why didn't know what it would be? You know when they explained it to me. You know it's it's two guys. He's in a house and try to kill for two hours so really. He's the choice Mr Magoo. Who's not really Lee? Mr Magoo who can really see and and two guys chasing Tom and Jerry cartoon I don't know but yeah but I did it. I did mousehunt and then the I as an agent at the time who and I went and I said to him. He's now deceased. I said you know not much has happened after the you know the birdcage was. I thought maybe gonNA elite stuff and he said to me. Maybe if he weren't so open about your sexuality and And I said really you you know he was gay. He was an old much an older gay. Man was he your agent or H. He was might my my agent and names Jeff Hunter He. He was a shaved head mustache old queen and he said well. Maybe if you're too open about your sexuality you might have gotten more offers is I. Well yeah thanks a lot and I left and went to see a that was a mistake. We're fun goes to die so anyway. That's what happened after the catch that. Laugh after the Robin Yeah Yeah and he delivered my God he is ca where fun goes to die Nathan Lane God but yeah. It's still like a lot of pain under their like his trusted agent who's supposed to guide his career and be his right hand man and also so is gay. You were to open in WANNA come out. They force them out Oprah fourth time out. Maybe if you weren't so open about your sexuality yeah well that's the problem okay. Category Palm Springs Time. You you you know. Hollywood is like this. You imagine you here but to hear from the Horse's mouth like been lane sitting here are telling us yeah he told me I don't know it's pretty mind blowing to me. Yeah it's like you said you can't you couldn't win because even at that time. Remember when they're trying to make Rupert Everett into like a handsome leading man and like that. That didn't work out. You know and he was like as non-threatening as you could get and still be like he's a honky movie star. So Oh wow well Nathan to the theater. where he felt comfortable and Broadway embraced him big time and he's done amazing work there and he's also oh done some great work on the big screen and small screen? You mentioned Modern families had recurring role on that and He has something exciting coming up. Oh yeah he gave you a bit right well. Two things. Well the reason he was even available to do this podcast is he's he's been in l.. A. Shooting a new show which I am so excited about legitimately. It's it's the penny dreadful. Remember the showtime show. That was sort of mixed together. All the Victorian monsters. They're going in a different direction with a spin off series. Let talk about it. It really sounds right up my alley. This is set in La in nineteen thirty eight and it's and loosely based on. There's some real historical things that were going on the Nazi infiltration of Los Angeles at the time which Mike Character is investigating as well as ism essential sort of murder that has to be solved but There's young a wonderful young actor named Daniels Vodka who Blah I'm partners with on the LAPD I partner with him he's the first Latino detective on the LAPD and no one will partner with him. And I do. And and so. There's a lot about his family and many different worlds going on in the in the show. And you know it's all about the persecution of the Latino community and and There are many parallels to what things that are going on right now but it's a fantastic yarn that John Logan has created and with how these stories intersect and the world of the Pacheco's you know that whole era of zoot suitors and the rise of the The American button all these and then sort of Nazi organizations nations in La. This is all stuff. That's CATNIP for me. I love all this. La History as well as Chinatown Noir. murder mystery in the center of that. We're trying to solve this. Very wealthy family has been murdered and left in the La River. This kind of ritualistic murder covered with the the paint of the Santa Morte. You know There it's sort of gruesome murder and and So they're trying to solve that as well and it all leads to many many different things. Rock can't wait. Yeah Yeah me me too. It's it's been going well and it's really really well written anything else on Broadway coming up. Well I'm not you know yeah I yes. I'm scheduled in and if all the dates workout because now this this show always I've been told we're probably doing a second season of the shown Rozelle But in spring of twenty twenty one. I'm supposed to be doing death at the salesman on Broadway with Laurie metcalf and Jomon tallow is GONNA drag. WHOA been announced Scott Rudin is producing no so it is not been announced? Oh my God but it works for a very long time and you heard it here first so So I yeah something. We've been working on for a long time. Oh my God. That's like lear. And Willy Loman is a few parts. Every actor wants to play. Yeah Yeah No. It's it's certainly one of the greats of the twentieth century and Yeah I I really look forward to that. Oh my God. I didn't have to see that you heard it here. First Spring Two thousand twenty one on Barada Wag Nathan Lane playing Willy Loman death of a salesman and before that he's going to be the in showtime's Penny Dreadful City of angels so definitely check that out Nathan. Thank you you you are one of my heroes so just to spend time with. You was really a very important and exciting moment in my life and you were awesome. And I'm sorry. That guy in the truck was screaming. Epithets that you. You don't deserve that you you deserve every accolade. Yeah all right well. Another amazing episode and season to you has a great job seth Well my pleasure everyone. Don't Oh forget that. If you like us you can give us. You know good reviews on I tunes so we can always use them. And if you don't please don't but you probably wouldn't have listened bright long if you really hated us. Keep it to yourself in this new climate where everybody just thinks they I rattle on about everything. Yeah please we love a hearing from you so and we set up this wonderful email address I h I h HR DOT com. And that's about it right. Yeah next week where we're going to have someone equally amazing. It's Andrew Stanton. Wow Andrew Stanton from Pixar. He hardly ever does interview. This is a super rare interviewing. And he's he's GonNa do. Wally and I just acted like I didn't know that we had interviewed him the other every time that we interviewed every time I hear his name. I'm like what we got Andrew. It it really is surreal. I was like well. Yeah we've got that guy but yeah we got Andrew Stanton and until next week will see you in Hollywood.

Robin Nathan Nathan Mike Nichols New York City Mike Robin Williams Nathan Lane Robin Elaine Elaine Mickey Rooney Neil Simon Hollywood Seth Abramovitch partner Dana Dana Nathan Nathan Detroit Dana Carvey Scott Rudin Bob Newhart Mel Brooks
Harold Jim Nicholson Pt. 2

Espionage

34:09 min | 9 months ago

Harold Jim Nicholson Pt. 2

"November two thousand six a dimly lit visiting room at the Federal Correctional Institution in Sheridan Oregon. A security guard looked on as his prisoner. Cia agent turned Russian spy. Jim Nicholson greeted a visitor. His twenty two year old son Nathan. This Saturday visit seemed routine Nathan ever. The loyal and dutiful son made his way over to the vending machines. They were positioned behind thick red line on the floor and out of bounds zone for prisoners. Jim Watched as Nathan bought his father's favorites. The JALAPENO cheeseburger Coca Cola. And a package of twix. He shot a glance at the unsuspecting guard and stifled a rush of excitement. And Not just about the candy on his way back. Nathan stopped to grab a stack of Napkins from a dispenser Nathan. Set the tray of snacks on the table and they ate and drank has Nathan Phil Jim. In on the most recent details of his life at a glance the visit appeared entirely harmless. Then Jim slipped few napkins into the pocket of his Khakis. This was no ordinary lunch. This was a business meeting and these flimsy Napkins were precious cargo. They were the canvas on which Jim would respond to his Russian contacts. Most pressing questions and Nathan wasn't just to visit his dad. He was there to smuggle out the answers. This is espionage. The par cast original exploring the missions behind the world's most incredible spies and what brought their covert operations into the public eye now throughout this show. We'll explore real world spy tactics required to impersonate exploit end. Infiltrate the most confidential places in the world. I'm Carter Roy. You can find all episodes of espionage and all other park has two originals for free on spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts to stream espionage for free on spotify. Just open the APP and type espionage in the search bar at par cast. We are grateful for you our listeners. You allow us to do what we love. Let us know how we're doing reach out on facebook and Instagram at podcast and twitter at podcast network? This is our second and final episode on Jim. Nicholson one of the top ranking agents. Who became a Russian informant in the nineteen nineties? Last week we explored how Jim went from being a promising and driven. Cia operative to turncoat and traitor. This week will learn how Jim managed to continue feeding. Us secrets to the Russians from the confines of his jail cell in July nineteen ninety seven forty six year old. Jim Nicholson was admitted to the Federal Correctional Institution in Sheridan one week before his youngest son Nathan turned thirteen. Despite Nathan's young age he frequently went to see his dad in one visit. Jim Sorrowfully admitted to a teenage Nathan. That he sold. Us Intel to the Russians. But he did it to help out his kids. Nathan took Jim at his word. He was convinced his dad couldn't possibly be a bad person. But gyms desire to work with the Russians was far from over even from behind bars. Jim was looking for ways to reach his contacts in the Russian foreign intelligence service or SB are without interference. One such plan included asking fellow to pass a document to the Russian consulate via a paralegal friend the paralegal realizing what? Jim was up to phone the FBI and the feds started keeping a closer eye on their prisoners. Correspondents Unaware of all this Nathan. Nicholson still idolized. His father hoping to follow in his footsteps Nathan had his heart set on a military career. Jim Wanted Nathan to enroll at Oregon State University and take rotc courses like he had done. But when Nathan turned eighteen two thousand two he decided to go straight into the army. Jim was disappointed but remained supportive. Nathan hope to become an army ranger his dad then just a year after he enlisted. He fractured his spine. In a parachuting accident. His dream was dead. He fell into a deep seemingly insurmountable depression one night in two thousand four seven years into his prison sentence. Jim called to check on Nathan Intel. His son he loved him. The words of encouragement literally saved. Nathan's life unbeknownst to Jim. His son had been contemplating suicide minutes before the call but filled with a new resolve. Nathan hung up the phone and got in touch with a mental health counselor. Later that year Nathan was honorably discharged from the army. He flew home and tried to find a new rhythm in his life despite his ongoing battle with depression it was Jim Support. That kept him going. Nathan drove to share it into see his father every other Saturday during these visits Nathan shared updates on his life and Jim shared his Christian faith. The father and son found a new connection through prayer. This was their routine month after month year after year. One Saturday in two thousand six. Jim Waited in the visiting room as usual when Nathan arrived. He embraced him with a big bear hug but he could immediately tell that something was off Nathan now. Twenty two was obviously troubled. Jim Preston for details until he relented. The problem was money. Nathan explained that his older brother Jeremy was twenty five thousand dollars in debt. His Sister Star had accumulated fifty thousand dollars in student loans and her car was constantly in the shop. Nathan himself had to maxed out credit cards in an eight thousand dollar car loan. He couldn't seem to get ahead gyms heartbroken at seeing his son so stressed he couldn't bear the thought that there was nothing he could do. Jim earn a small wage through the prisons Labor program but even with overtime could only pull in four hundred dollars a month. He wished he could turn back the clock to a time when he was able to help his kids before he was stripped of his assets and his Russian money then he had an idea how he hunched over in whispered he knew away that Nathan could alleviate the burden Jim asked Nathan to locate the nearest Russian consulate. His old friends and Moscow were holding an account open in his name and they might be able to make some early withdrawals despite the dubious legality Nathan agreed. He had finally followed in his father's footsteps not as decorated soldier but as a Russian asset. Jim knew just what to do to prepare Nathan for the task ahead. During each of their visits he spent a few minutes training. Nathan in basic surveillance detection. He taught him to be on the lookout for any people or cars. He came across to frequently repeat encounters could indicate he was being followed. Jim also warned him. That has slowed. Computer might indicate surveillance and that credit cards left paper trails. Jim felt his son was ready. He sent him on his first mission in early October. Two thousand six Nathan made his way to the Russian consulate in San Francisco. It was time to rekindle his father's connections armed with nothing. More than gyms basic training and fierce determination. Nathan made his way through a heavy wooden door into a small waiting room inside the consulate. He approached a woman behind glass window and let her know he was there. To see the chief of security he reached into his pocket and took out a folded note. It was from Jim Agreeing for his old Russian friends and an introduction for Nathan. The woman glanced at the letter and asked Nathan to take a seat an hour later. A middle aged man with dark moustache finally came to fetch him from the lobby once again. Nathan produce the note as well as a picture of him and his father. The Russian was skeptical. He asked how could be certain. That Nathan wasn't an FBI provocateur. Nathan offered to submit to a search but after a rigorous examination and a mountain of paperwork. The Russians still weren't convinced they sent Nathan away telling him to come back in two weeks. Nathan related the news to Jim. He told us on not to give up. These things took time. He encouraged Nathan to try again. The meeting in two weeks Nathan rose to the challenge. He returned to San Francisco on October. Twenty seventh this time the Russian man whose name was Gabow embraced him. He apologized for his initial scepticism. The Russians had vetted Nathan Story and realized he had been telling the truth and now they were happy to have. Nathan's help the Russians. Wanted to understand how and why Jim had been discovered and where they were vulnerable. Because of this sensitive issue Gorgona felt that the United States was no longer a safe place to meet their next meeting would take place at the Russian Embassy in Mexico City on December thirteenth Nathan left San Francisco with a five thousand dollar payment and a new assignment. He couldn't believe his fortune when Jim called the next day. Nathan reported that everything went well. Nathan chose his words carefully in case anyone was monitoring the conversation. He let Jim know that he'd gotten a sale for about five K. He also mentioned that he was considering taking the trip to Mexico. Visits leading up to the Mexico meeting Nathan had to find creative ways to communicate the Russians questions to his father on one occasion. Nathan wrote the questions on his forearm. Jim Quickly memorized them and sent him to the bathroom to wash off the evidence after that they changed tactics. Jim would smuggle Nathan a Napkin. Full of his responses Nathan would pretend to wipe his nose and stuff the Napkin in his pocket. The high wire act invigorated. Both of them Jim was back in the game and Nathan felt a real sense of worth on December thirteenth Nathan travel to the Russian Embassy in Mexico City carrying Napkins covered with state secrets. When he arrived he asked to see the chief of security. A short unfamiliar Russian man guided the way warning him not to say a word the CIA and FBI often kept tabs on the Mexico City and the sea. It was a hot spot for generations of American spies. Another Russian man introduced himself as George. His real name was BASILEA for he was a master spy and former. Kgb General he would be Nathan's handler. Nathan gave George the Napkins with all of Jim's answers to their questions. George studied them. After a moment he began rattling off more questions which Nathan scribbled furiously in notebook. George wanted to know why Jim had fallen under suspicion in Malaysia in the nineteen nineties. He wanted to know if jim believe someone in that region had outed him to the FBI. He wanted to know if there was a mole in their ranks. George told Nathan. They needed a secure way to signal their next meeting. He didn't want to leave a paper trail. Nathan knew exactly what to do. They created an email account that would be shared between the two of them to confirm or cancel meeting. They would log into the account and leave the other message in the draft folder. They would never hit send. As we've covered in previous episodes. The shared email account is a tried and true espionage tactic that's been used by. Cia agents and Al Qaeda operatives alike and it proved just as reliable for Nathan and his Russian handler. The assigned each other codenames. The Russians would be Nancy and Nathan would be Dick. Before Nathan left. George paid him ten thousand dollars. They agreed to meet again in seven months on July tenth. Two thousand seven Nathan couldn't wait to share his most recent success with his father. He returned to Sheridan correctional as soon as he could just as he hoped. Jim Lavished Him with praise. They went back to work. Nathan shared the new questions from the Russians and Jim coached him on necessary precautions like how to securely store the cash. Jim also concocted a web of lies to explain the sudden influx of money to their family. The cover story was that Nathan had finally found success as an insurance salesman in June. Two thousand seven just a few weeks before his next scheduled visit with the Russians Nathan. Call Jim in a moment of sloppiness. He asked how many more times he'd be able to visit Jim before that thing. Jim winced the phrase. That thing was exactly the of comment that would arouse suspicion. Nathan might have just put their entire operation in jeopardy coming up the CIA and FBI launch a probe into the Nicholson case podcast listeners. We realized that there are a lot of par- cash shows to choose from each day and sometimes not enough time to sort through them. All in our new feed par cast daily. We filtered through all of your favorite podcast series to highlight the most timely and relevant episode premiering. Each day every Monday through Friday. Discover a new and captivating episode curated specifically for you. That's one new episode from our slate of content handpicked with you in mind. Time is precious. And we've got you covered follow. Par cast daily free on spotify. Or wherever you get your podcasts you can check out more. Par Cash shows and a full library of episodes in spotify by searching for park cast in the spotify search bar or by going to spotify dot com slash. Podcast now back to the story by August of two thousand seven twenty-three-year-old Nathan Nicholson had made three lucrative drops between his father. Jim and the Russians Russian intelligence was desperate to know if there was a mole within their ranks while the Nicholson's did their best to communicate and code. They weren't clever enough to hide the true meaning other conversations the FBI and CIA had never fully lost their suspicion of but a recent string of phone calls and letters between Jim and Nathan had renewed their concern in one particular Leonard. Jim wrote if you get the chance. I'd recommend hopping down to South America to check it out. Brazil Argentina Chile or Peru could be great places to visit. Peru would be the cheapest although Brazil might not be too bad either. I'd steer clear of Columbia and those countries along the top. Cia analysts suspected that Jim was encouraging Nathan to fly to cities where Russia held strong diplomatic ties within twenty four hours. A top secret investigation team was assembled. And they got to work unraveling the newest. Nicholson scheme. The FBI intercepted gyms outgoing mail. Photocopied it to share with. Cia analysts and then sent the originals to their intended recipients. So Jim wouldn't catch on. They were granted approval by the foreign intelligence surveillance. Court eavesdrop on the Nicholson's eventually bugging Nathan Cell Phone and computer and placing a GPS tracker in his car. The US was determined not to fall prey to the Nicholson's a second time on December tenth. Two thousand seven Nathan boarded a plane to Lima Peru for another meeting with his handler. George agents scrambled to search home while he was away down in Peru. George admonished Nathan for failing to follow his meeting. Instructions Nathan had never confirmed the meeting in their shared yahoo email account. He had misunderstood. He thought he was only supposed to use it to cancel a meeting. Embarrassed determined not to make the same mistake twice. Nathan wrote the newest sediments sections in his notebook to leave no room for error. He opted not to write it in code. Their next meeting would be in Cyprus when he returned to the US on December thirteenth Nathan made his way through customs and Border Patrol eager to get home with his ten thousand dollar payday but before he could get through he was stopped by a security agent the officer redirected Nathan to a secondary screening won the FBI had set up especially for him. Nathan stifled his fears agents dug through his belongings. One of them took. His notebook disappeared into an office behind a one way mirror. The notebook held one hundred sixty pages of notes about his family. Their codenames and questions posed by the Russians about his father's espionage activities behind the glass agents scramble to make copies of the pages. The minutes dragged by well Nathan stood there waiting panicking then abruptly. His notebook was returned. Nathan was free to go on December fifteenth. He made his way to the prison. When Jim took his seat across from him in the visitors room he could tell his son was plagued with anxiety. Nathan was certain he'd blown their cover. Jim Tried to reassure him that he'd handled the situation. Well if necessary Nathan could always back out of the next meeting. Despite his festering worries Nathan couldn't bear to disappoint his father or to take away. The one thing that had reinvigorated gyms Dole Life in jail. He assured himself that the meeting in Cyprus would proceed as planned and with no mistakes on May twenty first. Two thousand eight Nathan went to an Internet cafe logged into the shared yahoo account and drafted an email. The subject line read Ola Nancy in the body of the email he wrote. Hello Sweetie how are you? I'm good sorry for taking so long to write you. You know how workers and all it looks like. I will still be able to go on that vacation. He saved as draft a few weeks later. He logged back in the email had been deleted. This was a sign that his message had been received. A on December tenth Nathan made his way down a dark street in Nicosia. Cyprus he pulled a camel colored cap over ended his best remained calm as he approached a TGI Fridays for a moment he thought he heard a rustling nearby. He scan the area. There was nothing in sight. He must be imagining things he needed to stay the course and make his dad proud but Nathan should have heated his instincts the FBI knew about the time and date of the meeting from Nathan's purloined notebook. They'd set up a video camera to catch him connecting with his handler camera captured Nathan and George exchanging their parole or password. George asked if he knew the way to the post office Nathan easily replied that it should be around here somewhere. The meeting had been initiated but the camera lost track of the pair when they docked into a waiting sedan which took off down the street at the end of the meeting. George told Nathan they would meet again a year later outside of a subway station in Slovakia Nathan had completed the drop. It was time to head home when he arrived back at. Jfk Nathan made his way through customs. Again he noticed a familiar tall man and did a double take and he seen him before was he being followed when Nathan was pulled aside for another secondary search nearly panicked but he told himself his father would surely have warned him if there was anything to be concerned about although they let him go. Nathan was right to be worried the FBI was ready to move him on the Nicholson's coming up the CIA and FBI shutdown. The Nicholson operation for the second time. Now back to the story in two thousand eight the FBI acquired footage of Nathan. Nicholson meeting with a Russian agent. Us officials acted quickly. They refused to allow his father. Jim Nicholson to do any further damage to national security on December fifteenth. Two thousand eight just five days after his meeting and Cypress Nathan awoke to pounding on his apartment door when he opened his worst fears were realised. Fbi agents John Cooney Jared garth flash their credentials. They calmly informed him that they were looking for. Help with an investigation stifling. His panic Nathan invited them in and offered them something to drink. The agents took their seats and told him he was under no obligation to speak to them laying his cards close to his chest. Nathan said he was glad to help. Cooney asked him about his life story from the very beginning. Nathan detailed his birth early years with his parents. His Dad's arrest his military ambitions in the parachuting accident. That destroyed them then. Kunis questions became more specific. He asked Nathan to detail. His foreign travels Nathan mentioned his trips to Mexico City in Cyprus but lied about their true purposes. He told them that in Cyprus kid only connected with a few friends from the army but Cooney gently prodded Nathan. Asking him to make sure he was sharing the entire story. He reminded Nathan that it was against the law to lie to federal agents. Nathan nervously continued to share half truths about his international vacations. Finally Kuni asked him point blank. If you'd come contact with Foreign Officials Nathan's heart pounded. He replied one last time that no he hadn't had contact with Foreign Officials. Kuni decided to tip his hand. He said he knew that. Nathan's travels entailed more than he led on. If he helped them they would help him. He gave Nathan one more chance to tell the truth. Nathan couldn't take it and he longer. The dam broke the months of pent up. Anxiety had gotten the best of him for the next several hours. He recounted the events of the last few years the a the meetings with the Russians smuggled notes all event eight hours after the agents arrived. They were on their way out with a full written confession around the same time in December. Two Thousand Eight. Jim Walked into a private room next to the prison. Visitation CENTER TO FBI agents. Were waiting for him question. Jim About the peculiarities in some of his letters and phone calls. Jim Refused to. Take the bait. The agents were uninterested in playing games so they laid out what they knew. Jim was still communicating with the Russians and using. His son is a courier. The agents assured him that they had more than enough evidence to file felony charges including video footage of Nathan in Cyprus. Jim refused to cooperate and demanded lawyer. When the agents turned him back over to his corrections officers he was taken to solitary confinement from now on he would spend twenty three hours a day in the whole a federal grand jury convened for the next several weeks to discuss the evidence at hand. They concluded that Jim was the mastermind behind the operation and Nathan was a gullible instrument manipulated by his father on January. Twenty Eighth Two Thousand Nine. Nathan heard another knock on his door once again it was. Fbi agent. Jared garth the day before a grand jury had handed up an indictment against the Nicholson's for laundering money and acting as agents of the Russian Federation Nathan Faced Felony Charges. That could land him in prison for a long long time. The agents read Nathan. His Miranda rights handcuffed him and confiscated his personal belongings. He would appear before a US. Magistrate Judge the following day on their way to jail agent. Garth couldn't help but point out to Nathan that his father had orchestrated all of this at the expense of his son. Jim had so easily manipulated him into selling out. His country. Nathan was twenty five years old. It was time for him to be his own. The charges Nathan was facing meant. He was probably going away for decades. His legal team tried to bargain for more lenient deal but to do that he would have to help the government to build a case against his father. The decision took a toll on Nathan. He spent the summer of two thousand nine considering his options the judge had released him on bail to prepare for trial but he was saddled with an ankle bracelet to track his whereabouts on August fourth Nathan went to the US Attorney's office and met with government lawyers who would prosecute him FBI agents garth and Cooney were also present. Nathan looked each one in the eye and let them know he was ready to do right by them. He would give them everything he knew about. Jim's work with the Russians for a chance at a lighter sentence on August twenty seventh. Two thousand nine Nathan pleaded guilty to the charges against him at the same time. He agreed to testify if he was called during his father's trial. The judge would withhold sentencing Nathan until after Jim's court proceedings to make sure that he made good on his promise to cooperate by the summer of two thousand ten Jim. It spent more than twenty months in solitary confinement. He'd grown bitter about his immense fall from grace hit gone from a top ranking government official to a convicted spy who was fed through a slot and a steel door for awhile. It seemed like Jim wouldn't crack the F. B. I. Offered him the chance to admit his wrongdoings to save Nathan but he wouldn't take the bait gyms defense team held that he wasn't guilty of espionage he had simply asked a foreign government for financial assistance however the US government was prepared to submit the extensive evidence they had collected over the last few years. This included the phone calls between Jim and his kids the piles of correspondence. Nathan's travel records and the surveillance videos but the arguments would never reached the courtroom on the second Thursday in November. Two thousand ten. Jim Pleaded guilty though he had initially wanted to face the charges head on he ultimately couldn't stand the thought of Nathan being forced to testify against his own father. Jim Nicholson was sentenced to an additional eight years in prison. Nathan who was seen as no more than on naive puppet in the operation was sentenced to five years of probation and one hundred hours of service to the Veterans Administration to this day. Jim Nicholson is the highest ranking official ever convicted of espionage he put countless endanger including his own sons. He's scheduled for release from Sheridan Correctional in two thousand twenty four when he'll be seventy four years old and hopefully when he finally walks free he'll stay far away from the Russian Embassy. Thank you for listening to espionage. We'll be back Friday with a new episode for more information on. Jim Nicholson amongst them. Many sources we used we found the spies son by Bryan. Denson extremely helpful. You can find more episodes of espionage and all other park has two originals for free on spotify. Well not only to spotify already. Have all your favorite music but now spotify is making it easier for you to enjoy all of your favorite podcast originals like espionage for free from your phone desktop or smart speaker to stream espionage on spotify. Just open the APP and type espionage in the search bar and don't forget to follow us on facebook and Instagram at Park in twitter at podcast network. We'll be back next week with another deep dive into the world of clandestine. Operation espionage was created by Max Cutler into Depar- cast studios original executive producers include maximum Ron Cutler sound design by Kenny. Hobbs with production assistance by Ron Shapiro. Carleen Madden Aaron Larson. This episode of espionage was written by Natalie McCarron with writing assistance by Kate. Gallagher I'm Carter Roy.

Nathan Phil Jim Cypress Nathan Nathan Nicholson FBI Nathan Story Nathan rose Jim Nicholson Nathan Intel CIA Us Nathan Cell Jim Watched George Jim Sorrowfully Jim Preston spotify Jim Support Jim Walked Russian consulate Nicholson
Nathan Matthews & Shauna Hoare Pt. 2

Crimes of Passion

45:24 min | 3 months ago

Nathan Matthews & Shauna Hoare Pt. 2

"Due to the graphic nature of these crimes. Listener discretion is advised. This episode includes discussions of violence, murder, pedophilia, and pornography that some people may find offensive. We advise extreme caution for children under the age of thirteen. On March Second Two Thousand Fifteen Bristol police knocked on the front door of the two storey red brick house at nine. Barton, court and were greeted by twenty nine year old Donovan Dimitrius. When the officers asked to search the residence Donovan obliged sweat gathering on his forehead. To his surprise the police walked straight through the house and out the back door directly to the garden shed. Donovan try to swallow his nerves essay, open the shed doors. In the dark back corner of the shed behind the lawnmower and some shovels. They found four suitcases stacked on top of one another just like they'd been told they would. One officer and ZIP the topmost case to reveal a thick sheet of crumpled up. Cling wrap. Beneath this were heavier items all wrapped in layer after layer of the same plastic material. The officer grabbed one bundle from the suitcase he pulled off what seem like an entire roll of cling wrap before the material was thin enough to be transparent. When he saw what was inside he handed the bundle to another officer and ran out of the shed. Sure. He was going to be sick. The other officers stared wide-eyed at the thinly veiled. His Palms. It was a human hand severed at the wrist. The fingernails were polished cherry red. I I'm leaning hops, and this is crimes of passion a podcast original in the legal definition. A crime of passion is a violent crime that occurs in the throes of extreme emotion leaving no time to reflect on the consequences. But in this show, we explore how passionate relationship sometimes lead us to criminal activity. How does the husband and wife killer and victim or killer and co-conspirator? If. There's an line between love and hate what manipulates our relationships into deadly results. You can find episodes of crimes of passion and all other podcast cast originals for free on spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts. To stream crimes of passion for free on spotify, just open the APP and type crimes of passion in the search. Last week, we discussed the relationships between sixteen year old becky watts, her stepbrother twenty-eight-year-old Nathan Matthews and his girlfriend twenty one year old Sean Hoare. In late two, thousand, fourteen Nathan started talking to Sean About Kidnapping teenage girls and Becky became his target. This week, we'll see how Nathan's violent obsessions culminated in Becky's murderer. Will follow police as they search for the truth and discuss how Nathan and Shana continually tried to escape responsibility for one of the most gruesome crimes in the history of Bristol United Kingdom. We have all that and more coming up stay with us. Cozy up to drinks and treats inspired by the season at. I'm already a huge fan of Dunkin's ultra-smooth cold brew, and now I can get milk in any of Dunkin's drinks that means oatmeal caught and ice Lawa's that really hit the spot. They're rich smooth and creamy without the dairy or Trey Dunkin Signature pumpkin spice Latte. Use the Dunkin APP for a contactless way to order. Then pay in pick up in the drive Thru Dunkin. Done easy. A Fifty year old Darren Goldsworthy came home from work around eleven pm on Tuesday February seventeenth two thousand fifteen. He made his sixteen year old daughter Becky Watts pizza before he headed to bed. The next day Becky hung out at a rugby club party, then stayed the night at her friend's house. She came home at approximately eight thirty am on Thursday. February nineteenth. That morning, she texted her boyfriend seventeen year old Luke Oberhof Handley and made plans to meet up with him that afternoon. Around Eleven thirty am twenty eight year old Nathan and twenty one year old Shawna along with their toddler daughter showed up to the house in Saint George. When they walked inside, they heard loud music coming from becky's bedroom. It's impossible to know exactly what transpired after the couple arrived. According to Nathan Shawna turned on a television show for their daughter to watch then went to the backyard to smoke a cigarette. With Shawna. Nathan saw his opportunity he ran to his car and grabbed the kidnapping kit. He put together a few months before. It included a stun gun handcuffs, duct tape, and a black ski mask. With the mask covering his face, Nathan barged into becky's bedroom and attacked her. But becky fought back despite being considerably smaller than stepbrother she was able to wrestle the mask office face. Nathan said without his disguise. He panicked when becky removed his mask, she upset the balance of power between them. She took away his control of the situation and Nathan reacted violently. Before I continue with Nathan Psychology please note I. Am not a licensed psychologist or psychiatrist, but I have done a lot of research for the show. In their article, the dominance behavioral system and psychopathology psychologists from the University of California Berkeley and the University of Bridgeport Connecticut analyst, the connection between dominance behavior and the quest for power. According to the article. People with high dominance motivation been found to demonstrate more emotional reactivity when faced with dominance challenges. Nathan history of violent behavior and pedophilia illustrates his drive for power over others. When he attacked Becky his mask gave him anonymity and that anonymity gave him the upper hand in tearing off his mask. Becky not only revealed his identity but also gained power in their altercation. Knowing who her attacker was meant, she could lead a report and identify him to police. Nathan reacted with fear and panic. To regain the dominance he lost he grabbed sixteen year old Becky bye-bye the throat in squeezed until she stopped moving. Then, he grabbed his stepsister phone tablet laptop and a pair of shoes in an attempt to make it look like she'd run away. He stuffed everything including Becky's body into the trunk of his car. According to Nathan it was all over before Shana had even finished her cigarette. When she came back inside, he told her becky had gone to hang out with her boyfriend. Becky stepmom Angie returned home at approximately twelve, forty, five PM. Nathan repeated the same story to her becky ham laughed about an hour before to go meet up with Lou. Meanwhile Luke himself wondered where Becky was they had made plans to meet up, but suddenly she stopped responding to his messages. At Twelve Oh, six pm he texted her to let her know he just left a dentist appointment, but she never answered. At. Twelve forty six, he followed up but to no avail. Another hour pass before he texted again. Luke was perplexed normally becky responded within minutes at three PM. He had to call her it went straight to voicemail. Worried at five PM, he drove to Darren an Angie's house. He answered the door and told him she had no idea or Becky was. Despite Luke's insistence that becky would never cancel plans without letting him know Shana shrugged it off. Becky came and went as she pleased, and it wasn't unusual for her to spend evenings out. Luke left the house trailed by a terrible feeling of dread. Nathan Shana stayed with Angie until around seven o'clock that evening they picked up Chinese takeout on the way back to their home on Barton. Hill. Then Watch television and played monopoly until they went to sleep. All in all Nathan reports having a boring night in. While his step sister's body sat in the trunk of his car. As. Shawna and Nathan slept in. Barton. Hill Angie Darren layaway in Saint George. VECCHI's lack of communication was. They allowed her to enjoy quite a bit of freedom but only because she always let them know where she was still Darren and Angie didn't jump to the conclusion that something bad had happened. The assumed becky was just being irresponsible typical for a sixteen year old. The next morning February Twentieth Darren left for work. Angie watched the clock hoping becky would knock on the door at any moment. By two thirty PM luke showed up again this time with three of Becky's closest friends alongside him. None of them had heard from her either. Angie strode tightened with panic she called deer and who rushed home from work and searched becky's room for clues. Although. Nathan. Thought he was being clever when he took becky's phone tablet and laptop, he forgot some items that were equally as important. Her purse, her toothbrush, and the charging cables for her electron ix had all been left behind. At that point Darren knew something wasn't right. He called the Bristol Police Department and reported becky missing. As, much as Darren try to convince the police that Becky's behavior was out of the ordinary they didn't rush over Bristol has a population of around half a million people and thousands of people go missing in the UK every year, most of whom are later found with friends or extended family. Police assumed. Becky's disappearance was another runaway. But Darren new better. while. He waited for officers to arrive. He called everyone who might have had information about becky. Nobody had seen his daughter. While dare meet Frantic Telephone Calls Nathan was scanning the aisles of a local hardware store. He purchased a circular saw gloves, goggles and a face mask. When he got home Nathan dismembered his step sister's body in the bathtub. In leader testimony, Nathan admitted. It was surreal but I just did it. He took the pieces of Becky's body and pack them in salt presumably in an attempt to prevent decomposition until he figured out what to do next. Corpses can start to smell as s twenty, four hours after death and bodily bloating begins within three to five days. Nathan likely wanted to keep me burst from smelling becky's body and keep the corpse from bloating so it would be easier to move. Still neighbors reported hearing, thumping and selling noises throughout the afternoon. And although it's clear that dismembering Becky's body was loud and took many hours. Shana. Maintains that at the time she had no idea what Nathan was doing and the bathroom. Around six PM Darren called Nathan Chana to let them know becky still hadn't come home. Is Frustration with the police was mounting. They'd yet to show up to the house. So he begged Nathan to come over and help them write a facebook post asking friends family and anyone living in Bristol to keep an eye out for becky. Nathan sat next to his stepfather on the couch. You Watch dare face as he spoke and took note of his titan lips his eyebrows drawn close together. Nathan tried to match these movements hoping he looked just as worried and confused as Darren did. His stepfather kept talking but Nathan hardly hurt his words. Every time he blinked he saw becky's body cut up and packed in. Salt. Darren handed Nathan his phone. So he could type out the facebook post when Nathan grab the device, he saw what looked like dried blood underneath his own fingernails. His stomach dropped. Nathan glanced at his stepfather, but Darren hadn't noticed anything. Nathan took a deep breath. He pulled his eyebrows close together feigning concern and typed. After a few drafts, Nathan endearing came up with the short plead a post on facebook. It's sad. Please share missing sixteen year old girl please private message if you have seen or know anything please let me know she is safe. Nathan pressed share releasing the message to the public he hoped people would scroll past the photo of his stepsister and assume she'd run away. If they did he just might be able to get away with murder. Next. Nathan trice discrepancy, the evidence of his crime. I- listeners have you heard parkas newest original series yet. It's called medical murders and it exposes dark and disturbing diagnosis that not every doctor wants to extend your. Life. Every Wednesday medical murders introduces you to the worst. The medical community has to offer men and women who took an oath to save lives, but instead use their expertise to develop more sinister specialties. Join my good friend host Alistair Murdoch as he examines the formative years and motives of history's most infamous killers dissecting their medical backgrounds with. Allison and professional insight provided by practicing MD Dr David Kipper. You'll investigate a wide range of heinous healthcare workers slake the general practitioner believed to be the most prolific serial killer in modern history. Dentists who led a double life as a Hitman or even the doctor and gang member who mixed deputy potions or unhappy housewives to use on their husbands. When it comes to these true crime stories, the only thing the doctor ordered is murder. Follow medical murders free on spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Whether. You're milk obsessed or experiencing it for the first time. You can now add milk in place of milk or cream to any drink at Dunkin. It's been a long year for all of us. The luckily fall is on the way I'm excited for the temperature to cool off. So I can sit on the back patio with dogs a book and Dunkin Signature Pumpkin Spice Latte Day, and now you can get old milk in place of milk or cream Dunkin's full lineup that includes hot iced frozen Coffee Espresso days and specialty beverages like Chai or Macho La as the flavors of fall are at Dunkin. Now. Back to the story. On the morning of February nineteenth two, thousand fifteen, twenty, eight, year old Nathan Matthews murdered his stepsister sixteen year old becky. Watts. The next day he dismembered her body while his young girlfriend claimed she was sitting nearby oblivious. He then left the pieces packed in salt while he went back to Saint George and helped his stepfather fifty year old Darren Goldsworthy right a facebook post looking for his missing daughter. When the police finally showed up at Darren Angie's home. The took statements from Darren Angie, Nelson and Shana then left quickly. Officers seem certain Becky was a runaway and would return sooner rather than later. But becky's parents weren't convinced after Nathan and Shawna went back Home Darren. Angie lay awake still under the assumption that Becky left the house to go see her boyfriend they thought she must have been kidnapped by a stranger on the way. By the next morning Saturday February. Twenty First Darren's facebook post had been shared over one hundred times and the Hashtag Find Becky was trending in the UK. With becky's disappearance gaining national attention, Bristol police began an official search into her assumed kidnapping. well-policed gathered evidence Nathan, went on more shopping trips this time with Shauna. On Saturday, the couple purchased rubber gloves, bleach, and three roles of cling wrap on. Sunday. They went back for reinforced trash bags, duct tape, various cleaning products, and a heavy duty sponge. By Monday February twenty third becky's body was packed in clean grab and stuffed into four suitcases at Nathan and China's house. Their Bathtub wants bloodied was scrubbed clean. The same day police held a press conference, Darren Angie appeal directly to their daughter, begging her to come home and reminding her how much they loved her. They held out hope that becky would be found alive. Afterward police trying to narrow down their list of possible suspects in Becky's disappearance. According to the National Center for Missing and exploited children less than one percent of missing children. Cases are result of non-family abductions. Although it was possible. Becky had been kidnapped by a stranger. It was highly unlikely. So police narrowed in on the last people who saw her alive. Nathan and Shawna When the police tried to schedule interviews with a couple, they were evasive. This struck investigators as a major red flag. Nathan and Shawna wanted to keep investigators as far away from their home as possible until the suitcases could be relocated. On, the evening of February twenty third Nathan contacted his friend Carl Dimitrius. According to Karl on Nathan said was that he needed some heavy items moved and he was willing to pay ten thousand pounds to get the job done. The proposition made carl nervous. so He approached his CO worker James Ireland to ask for advice. James saw it as an opportunity he said they could use a van from their work to move the items then split the money fifty fifty. Shortly after midnight Karlyn, James arrived at Nathan and China's house. Although Sean claim, she stayed home that night curl James said she actively participated in the following events. Over the course of about an hour, the group pack the suitcases into the back of the van. Karlyn James didn't ask what they contained. They assumed it was either drugs or stolen electronics that Nathan wanted to store before eventually selling. They knew they were doing something illegal, but they didn't know just how heinous Nathan's crime was. Surveillance footage showed the van driving from Nathan's house to Carl's. It was nearly one thirty am when the van pulled up to Carl's house. But Nathan was too paranoid to feel tired. The drive had been nerve wracking. Even. Though Karl drove under the speed limit Nathan was sure they'd get pulled over at any moment and the JIG would be up. Now that they were at the House Nathan couldn't wait to get the whole thing over with. SC Lug the heavy cases into the backyard he pushed away thoughts of what they contained. He assured himself they've done everything bright. The Bathtub was scrubbed clean. The evidence was hidden and his family didn't suspect a thing. Once the cases were packed inside the shed Nathan cracked a smile. It was going to be okay. It was over. Nobody, would ever find out what happened to becky wants. By Wednesday. February. Twenty fifth two, thousand, fifteen officers had virtually no solid evidence and public interest in Becky's case continued to mount. Civilian search parties combed through local parks and forests. Meanwhile Darin Angie where near constant contact with law enforcement. Although Nathan and Shaun Avoidance Look suspicious to police Darren and Angie believed in the couples innocence. wholeheartedly. Darren souther absence, not as an outgrowth of their guilt but as a symptom of their own confusion and pain following. BECKY's disappearance. Police however weren't convinced and Nathan and Shana it. On Friday February twenty seventh a full weeks in staring reported becky missing. Nathan and Shawna finally to be interviewed. The couple stories of what happened on the morning of February nineteenth matched perfectly a little too perfectly. In fact, most investigators know that even when people are telling the truth small inconsistencies in their memories are bound to arise. But Nathan and Shaun stories fit together. So neatly that Bristow police believed it indicated collusion. Nathan Shana lived in their own private world in which fantasies of violence and sexual experiences with young girls were normalized and even encouraged. It seems likely that Nathan was ultimately responsible for creating that world. According to Dr Store, Kirby a professor of policing and Criminal Investigation at the University of Central Lancashire Nathan was dominant person in the relationship and Shawna deferred to his fantasies. Because Nathan, spent years grooming Shauna when she was a minor he exercised substantial psychological influence over her. Text messages from a few months before Becky's murder shoulder discussing kidnapping a teenage girl. It's possible that Shawna became so desensitized to violence and pedophilia fantasies that she eventually became a participant in Nathan's plot. Officers were sure the couple was lying about what happened on the morning of February nineteenth, but they needed more than just suspicion to police Nathan and GonNa Arrest. They went back to Darren Angie's house the presumed scene of the crime to search for evidence of an abduction or struggle. It didn't take long to find what they needed on the door frame leading into becky's bedroom police found spatterings of blood one of which contained a fingerprint. Officers said the evidence to a lab and received the results the next day the blood on the door frame belonged to becky wants the fingerprint. To Nathan Matthews. With this evidence, Bristol, police place Nathan, and Shawna under arrest for kidnapping. When officers interrogated them separately, their carefully orchestrated stories fractured. Shauna told police Nathan found his step sister's disappearance very difficult. But Nathan openly admitted that he didn't particularly like Becky. Shana said Nathan Miss Becky yet. Nathan was adamant that he and his stepsister had never been close. According to him. They hadn't so much as texted one another nearly six months. Nathan's animosity towards Becky Ray suspicion further especially when juxtaposed with Sean his insistence that the. got. Along. While Nathan in Shawna remained in custody Darren Angie publicly stated that finding their daughter was still their highest priority. But privately Darren felt like Nathan and Shawna's arrest were absurd. Resented the fact that his stepson who he believed to be fundamentally good was being treated like a criminal. Defense thought police were wasting time looking into the family while Becky's kidnapper went free. Regardless. Of how Darren felt officers went to search Nathan and Shawna's home. Police couldn't have been prepared for what they found. The couple lived in squalor. The house was so cluttered that in most places, the floor wasn't visible at all of refrigerator and freezer block the front door from opening fully precarious stacks of dirty dishes. An empty takeout containers covered practically every surface. The house was so filthy and difficult to navigate that at first police didn't realize Nathan and Shana had an upstairs bathroom. When they walked in, they saw the space was practically unusable. The sink was full of dishes and a microwave sat on top of the toilet. The only area and the entire house that wasn't dirty was the upstairs bathtub. It looked freshly cleaned almost like Nathan and Shana had recently scrubbed away evidence. Police returned the next day to sift through more clutter. Then, covered to stun-guns and three receipts. Such showed Nathan and Shawna had purchased a circular saw and various cleaning products in the last week. With this officers had enough evidence to indict Nathan in China on suspicion of murder. Shawny continued to deny any involvement in the crime or cover up. So police set their sights on obtaining confession from Nathan. He wasn't tough to crack on March second soon after police told Nathan, his home had been forensically searched his lawyer provided officers with a written signed confession. It's sad. I Nathan Charles Mathews except that I am responsible for the death of Becky Watts. I wanted to kidnap her to scare her and teach her a lesson. The confession revealed that Becky's body was hidden in a garden shed at nine Barton Court. It also attempted to absolve Shauna of all responsibility. The, end of the statement read. Sean did not know anything about me causing the death of Rebecca or my attempt to dispose of and hide the body. Had she known, she would have reported me to the police. Many people took issue with Nathan statement although he confessed to Becky's murder, he maintained that it was an accident. Now Ever Angie Nathan's own mother said, she believed the murder was purposeful. Officers also doubted China's innocence. They said Nathan's attempts to absorb Shawna showed either that he was extraordinarily loyal. Control over him than both made out. When Police Ashoka why they should believe she wasn't involved she responded. You have no proof. At the time she was right there was nothing concrete to sean to the crime other than her going to the store with Nathan on the Saturday and Sunday after Becky's murder that was all about to change however when Bristol police searched the garden shed at nine Barton Court. Up Next police openness shed full of horror. This episode of crimes of passion is brought to you by simply safe. Everybody wants to feel safe in their home. The best way to get that sense of security is with Simplisafe, it was designed to be easy to use. So protecting your whole home twenty, four seven has never been simpler. You can order online with the click of a button once it arrives just open the box places sensors and plug it in. Now, your home is protected around the clock. As a new homeowner making sure my home is secured is of the utmost importance to me. So the fact that I could easily install safe myself and get such great protection was a big relief. Plus I don't have to worry about any outrageous monthly fees or to your contracts. In fact, simply safe's professional monitoring and emergency dispatch starts at just fifty cents a day. It's a great deal for what the US News and World Report called the Best Overall Home Security of twenty. Twenty. At to SIMPLISAFE DOT com slash passion and get a free HD camera that simplisafe dot com slash passion to make sure they know that our show sent you. You. All know that I love talking about true crime but did you know that I also love puzzles my favorite puzzle game is best beans and I play it on my smartphone. I can play my way through thousands of challenging puzzles. It's a casual game that anyone can play i. find myself playing best means a lot between podcast recordings sometimes curl up on the couch with my dogs bubba and squirt 'em play for twenty minutes to clear my head. Best, means updates the game every month with new levels and events. So it always feels fresh you don't need the Internet to play. So don't worry about Wifi access or using your cell phone data just download and start playing. It's so much fun. Engage your brain with fun puzzles and collect tons of cute characters. Trust me with over one hundred, million downloads. This five star rated mobile puzzle game is a must play download best beans free on the apple APP. Store or Google play. That's friends without the our best beans. Now back to the story. Since beginning their investigation into the disappearance of sixteen year old becky Watts Bristol police slowly closed in on twenty eight year old Nathan Matthews and twenty one year old Sean Hoare. On March second two, thousand, fifteen after learning his home had been searched. Nathan gave police a written confession. He maintained Becky's murderer was an accident and. That Shawna had no knowledge of the crime or cover up. Nathan statement also gave police the exact location of Becky's remains. Inside. The shed at nine in court police found four suitcases, each of which contained pieces of Becky's body. Near the suitcases were becky's missing phone, tablet laptop and clothing items. Police also uncovered at night and saw contaminated with blood and hair as well as a set of handcuffs and two pairs of goggles. Police and Becky's remains to a medical examiner. Over forty defensive wounds on her body. Although Nathan said he killed Becky by strangling her around the neck the examiner found that the likely cause of death was actually suffocation over the nose and mouth. With only two hands, it would have been difficult for Nathan to strangle and suffocate Becky at the same time especially while she was fighting back so. It seemed that Nathan was either lying about how she died or he had an accomplice in her murder. Perhaps most damaging to Nathan statement was the presence of fifteen post mortem stab wounds on Becky's abdomen. These injuries could not have been inflicted accidentally. Although Nathan maintains that the crime was not sexually motivated his pedophilia wasn't a secret and text messages from December two, thousand fourteen showed him in Sean discussing kidnapping teenager for sexual purposes. It's impossible to know why Nathan stabbed. Becky. But because she was already dead by that point, it couldn't have been to kill her. Instead, it may have been sexually motivated. Dr. Anthony Pezzo a former FBI forensic psychologist writes that postmortem stabbing in the upper torso is an example of a psychological perversion called Pekar SOM. PEKAR ISM is a form of sexual sadism in which a person gains gratification from stabbing or otherwise penetrating another person's skin. And the act of stabbing itself is sometimes viewed as psycho-sexual. According to FBI behavioral analyst Robert Hazelwood John Douglas Sexually motivated murderers rarely use firearms instead they utilize strangulation blunt force or appointed sharp instrument. The manner of Becky's death as well as the wounds inflicted on her post mortem are consistent with this. After completing becky's autopsy, the medical examiner had one more formality. Darren had to identify his daughter's body. Darren walked into the morgue. His legs week. His entire life had been stolen from him in a matter of weeks. He used to have a happy wife, a beautiful daughter and a stepson raising a child of his own. Now. Angie lived in a daze back was gone and Darren never wanted to look at neath and again. The morgue was cold, white and sterile. Darren was there identify Becky's body? But part of him hoped against all reason that the corpse wouldn't be hers. By some miracle becky would still be alive and the last three weeks would prove to be one long terrible dream. But no his hopes were shattered. There was his daughter on the table. Darren leaned over becky's body and cried. For her for himself end for their family. The medical examiner had tried to put her back together. But Darren could still see where Nathan decapitated her. The image of the stitches across his daughter's throat would never leave his mind. There was no punishment too severe for him. Bristol police were as disturbed by the grisly crime as Darren was, and they were determined to prosecute everyone involved. It seemed impossible that Shawna had nothing to do with the crime but officers needed evidence that she had a hand in Becky's murder. Police and the goggles and suitcases found at nine Barton court to a lab to be tested for DNA evidence. One pair of goggles came back with Nathan's DNA the other came back with Seanez. Her DNA was also found on one of the cases containing becky's remains indicating that she must have been involved dismemberment and disposal of Becky's body. On March fourth two, thousand, fifteen, it was announced that Nathan and Shana were charged with the murder of Becky. Watts. When this information was released, the public turned towards Nathan and Shawna with unmatched rage. People felt the pain that Darren and Angie were going through the horrible realization that their son had committed an act of unimaginable cruelty. While Nathan and Shawna awaited trial Darren and Angie plan their daughter's funeral people from all over the UK contributed to a crowdfunding campaign for her service. On April seventeenth two, thousand fifteen. So many mourners gathered at Saint Ambrose. The exceeded the buildings capacity and line the streets outside. The service was broadcast over a loudspeaker. So everyone in attendance could hear from that point forward becky became known as the angel of Bristol. Although the people of Bristol had taken steps towards honoring Becky's memory. They'd still yet to give her the justice she deserved. It would be another six months before Nathan and Shawna was before jury. Leading up to the trial, Shana and her lawyer argued that she shouldn't be charged as an equal participant in the crime. Although. It was clear that she assisted in the dismemberment and disposal of Becky's remains there wasn't enough evidence to prove she had anything to do with the murder. This along China's insistence that she too was victim of Nathan's manipulation and violence convinced the judge to lower her charge from murder to manslaughter. On October six, two, thousand, fifteen, Nathan and Shana entered the courtroom. They were greeted by a long line of people who wore blue ribbons and becky's honor. Nathan was described as emotional on the stand. He stuck to his previous story that Becky's murder was accidental and not sexually motivated. But. The prosecution showed Nathan purchases stun guns. He kept in his kidnapping Kit two months before the crime and bought batteries for them on the morning of the murder. Furthermore computer and cell phone records proved that nearly every day Nathan viewed age play pornography featuring women dressed like schoolgirls. He had over two hundred pornographic images saved on his laptop. Mere hours before murdering becky he watched a seventeen minute video to picking a teenage girl being sexually assaulted. Still, he pled not guilty to Becky's murder. SHAUNA also pled not guilty. She argued that the text about. A teenage girl with Nathan were sarcastic. She even tried to convince the jury that the only reason her DNA was found on objects in the garden shed was because they were once in her house. She described herself as unlucky and in the wrong place at the wrong time. The prosecution said Shawna's assertion of innocence was ridiculous and the people of Bristol agreed. On November eleventh two, thousand, Fifteen, the jury deliberated for just three and a half hours before reaching a verdict. They found both Nathan and Oth- guilty of all charges. The judge ruled that the murder was a sexually motivated plot organized by both parties with Shauna pandering to Nathan's fantasies and following his lead. On November Thirteenth Two Thousand Fifteen twenty nine year old Nathan. Matthews was sentenced to life in prison with a minimum sentence of thirty three years. Twenty two year old Shawna though cleared of murder charges was convicted of manslaughter and sentenced to a minimum of seventeen years. Nathan in Shana have both since attempted to appeal their convictions and been denied. And two thousand seventeen Nathan. was attacked by a fellow inmate who poured a jug of boiling butter over his face and neck. Shauna has also reportedly been the target of attacks. According to her close friend Shauna has been beaten so badly that she is needed to be resuscitated twice. Neither daring nor Angie has visited Nathan or Shana and prison. Even after everything they went through Darren Angie stay together and continued living in the home where becky was murdered. To this day, Darren keeps her bedroom locked and untouched. It is a permanent tribute to his daughter's life and memory. Tonya Watts becky's biological mother said. I feel Becky's presence all around me I know that she is up in heaven I know that she is at peace. The city of Bristol Honored Becky's memory by placing a lamp post in Saint George Park. Each time it lights up it serves as a reminder of her short but bright life. Angie says she wants to visit her son but only to make sure he understands the horror of what he did. Angie said. I want him to know I'll die brokenhearted and never forgive him for what he's done. I. Think I love him. But I'm not really sure. Thanks again for tuning into crimes of passion will be back Wednesday. With another episode, you can find more episodes of crimes of passion and all other podcast originals for free on spotify. Not only spotify already have all of your favorite music but now spotify making it easy for you to enjoy all of your favorite podcast originals like crimes of passion for free from your phone desktop or smart speaker. To stream crimes of passion on spotify just open the APP and type crimes of passion in the search bar. We'll see you next time when true love meets true crime. Crimes of passion was created by Max Cutler, his podcast studios, original executive producers, include Maxon, Ron Cutler sound design by Trent Williamson with production assistance by Ron, Shapiro, Carly Madden and Joshua Kern. This episode of Crimes Of Passion was written by Kerris Allen with writing assistance by Abigail Cannon I'm leaning Hobbs. Listeners don't forget to check out the gripping new podcast, original series medical murders from trauma surgeons to hospice staff. Medical professionals are trained to give exceptional care. But what about those? who used their skills not to heal but hurt? Every Wednesday meet the worst. The medical community has to offer men and women who took an oath to save lives but instead used their expertise to develop more sinister specialties follow medical murders free on spotify or wherever you get your podcasts.

Nathan Miss Becky Angie Nathan Nathan Shawna Nathan Shana Becky Nathan Matthews Darren souther Darren Angie Bristol Becky Watts murder Nathan Psychology kidnapping. Nathan Charles Mathews Nathan trice officer Sean Hoare Tonya Watts becky becky ham
Nathan Lane Finally Gets a Stunt Double!

Kickass News

45:19 min | 7 months ago

Nathan Lane Finally Gets a Stunt Double!

"This is kick ASS news. I'm Ben Mathis. My guest today needs no introduction from movies like the birdcage to animated classics. Like the lion king to Broadway shows like the producers. A funny thing happened on the way to the forum. In Angels In America Nathan Lane has been hailed as one of the great entertainers of our time now. He stars as a cynical detective in nineteen thirties. Los Angeles in the television series penny dreadful city of angels which premieres on Showtime this Sunday at ten P. M. Eastern and today. I'm thrilled to finally welcome. Nathan to the PODCAST. He talks about why his fans always thinks he's Jewish how his older brother inspired him to get into acting. And some of the roles. He's played on Broadway in shows like guys and dolls. The iceman cometh. And of course the producers then Nathan takes a call from Tony Award winning actor Director Joe. Montello on the podcast shares that he's finally close to realizing their dream of working together in a revival of death of a salesman and laments the lasting impact that the corona virus could have on Broadway theatre. He discusses starring in the return of showtime's hit series penny dreadful. How the new season transports the show from Victorian London to California on the cusp of world. War Two and what it's like to finally star in something where he gets an actual stunt double he reveals his own love for the noir. Detective fiction of Raymond Chandler. How Penny dreadful exposes the social tension simmering under the surface of Nineteen Thirties? La and how his character was partly inspired by a real attorney turned. Nazi hunter who was determined to stop. Hitler's nefarious. Plans for Los Angeles. Less Nathan remembers the late playwright terrence McNally George. C. Scott does no coward and the grueling experience of working with eighty S. TV magician. Doug Henning in the notorious Broadway musical flop Merlin coming up with Nathan Lane in just a moment folks. You know Nathan Lane from his many starring roles in film and Television including American crime story the people vs Oj Simpson Iron. We'd the birdcage. Frankie and Johnny mousehunt Jeffrey Nicholas Nickleby and the Lion King. All of that is to say nothing of an already legendary career on the Broadway stage which has earned him six Tony. Nominations and three Tony Wins for his performances. In the producers angels in America and a funny thing happened on the way to the forum indeed in two thousand ten. The New York Times described him as the greatest stage entertainer of the decade. But for my money he's probably the greatest stage entertainer of this or any other decade. Now he starring a hardboiled detective in Nineteen Thirties. Los Angeles in the new season of showtime's Penny Dreadful Penny dreadful city of angels premieres Sunday April Twenty-sixth at ten PM Eastern and Pacific Nathan Lane. Welcome well Ben Thank you. That is quite an introduction. I'm I'm impressed. I career anchor your kindness and generosity. Thank you very much. Well absolutely. I mean I've been a fan of yours for years and I've seen you on stage so many times but I have to say I just got the shock of my life just before this interview Nathan when I learned that you are not the Nice Jewish boy though. I always thought you were turns out your Nice Irish Catholic boy. Well I'm not anymore but I'm an atheist boy but yeah. I gave up Catholicism a long time ago yes I know Often I think because of the first name Nathan people do you think I'm Jewish or have at least in the past My real name is Joe Lane and I changed To Nathan Way Way back when many years ago when there was already a Joseph Lane in actors equity so they asked me to. Just choose another name which was In in the moment was traumatic and and I But I wound up picking the name of Nathan because I played Nathan Detroit in a non-equity Dinner theatre production of Bison dolls and That was the production that you're very well known for right that's right. It was a big hit in Cedar Grove New Jersey at the time and I was very young twenty one year old Nathan Detroit so I was very fond of that character in that show So I just said I'll be Nathan Lane and so yes many people have have. I think gotten the wrong idea that it actually changed my last name from Berkowitz delayed but I I'm sort of a yes I would like to say common unofficial honorary Jew when it at least when it comes to stage and screen appearance. Yeah I honestly in my personal interactions over the years. I don't think I've ever known Nathan. Who wasn't Jewish. No I I. I didn't really. I wasn't really thinking about any of that. I just liked the name and character so I didn't think of all of the Religious repercussions or that. Yes for years. I think people Thought I was Jewish. Which is at least it means. They believed who I was playing. They felt it was authentic. So I I I that that is very gratified. So it's not just me you get that a lot to do you get old. Jewish moms coming up and wanted to pinch cheeks or something Well yes sure. It's a big demographic for me You and Barbara. Yeah sure I you know I WANNA. I remember some of a lady after the after what I did. I did guys and dolls eventually on Broadway this nineteen ninety-two production. That was very celebrated. And I do remember coming out after show and there was a little little old Jewish lady who said to me you were wonderful and I will thank you very much you she said I saw. Sam Levine and I said Oh was that was better than Samuel that she said well. Come on Sam Levine. Yeah I didn't quite equal Samm Levine. But what he was one of the great they wrote that part for him then only only discovered afterwards. That damn couldn't sing at all. Which is why the Detroit doesn't have any songs in that show except for the duet of Sumi guys and dolls has strange history of actors. Who couldn't sing makes me think of The Br- The horrible Brando version. In the movie. All well that was. You know that story the famous story of They came to was at burroughs frank lesser and they said it was. I guess it was Sam Goldwyn who said I have very exciting news. We got Frank Sinatra to to be in the movie of guys and dolls and they said. Oh that's fantastic. He'll be wonderful as sky masterson and he said no no no no Marlon. Brando is going to be sky. Masterson Frank Sinatra is gonNA play Nathan Detroit and they said. Oh well you know Sam we you know it was written for Samm Levine. And we really hoped he could recreate his role in the film. And he said Samm Levine. No Jewish can't believe the conversation a centering around being Jewish. Here WE ARE A. We're we're in quarantine exactly can talk about anything we want you find it now because of this. There's a kind of. I don't know what you would call it a pandemic candor sort of in India. The world's one. What do I give a crap anymore? I'm going to say whatever I feel somewhere hovering between suicidal and homicidal you'll just say anything ordinarily we wouldn't be talking fashion Vita we we have all turned into Donald trump in his pajamas. Or No. No no no no no. It's not it's not that bad okay. What you mentioned. Frank lesser the composer of guys and dolls. And I'm curious when you did guys and dolls. Did you ever meet the widow? Joe Lesser? She was wasn't she wound. She was well she you know she is. She was very kind to me. He was a he was a lovely lady and she was I mean I yeah. I'm sure she was tough when it came to people asking for the rights to things and because she was very protective of frank relegates and of course she had starred in Most Happy Fella. Yeah that's how they met. the What's the trying to think of? Are you trying to think of the quote I forget? You know the story of his first wife. Who was ever. I guess who actually was rather difficult. Personnel really has the evil of two lessons. Oh Okay yes I was that quote. But that's what that's what Came to mind but no Joe Lesser I I was very fond of and she was a very sweet to me and she I I know how much she loved that That revival well I tell you Nathan I feel like I am a committed Nathan Lane Fan going way back and I don't think I even realize it till I started thinking about it today. Just how many times I've seen you on the stage. Probably even more than in your TV and films which saying a lot. I have such great memories of you and Forum laughter on the twenty third floor The odd couple angels. In America the Ice Man Cometh of course the producers. I mean all the great Broadway shows that you were in. What was the happiest that you've ever been on stage? That's well thank you. Thank you very much for having gone to see all those shows That's hard to say because there's is You know I love being on stage. You know there are different. They're different kinds of moments that you remember In things like the producers or funny thing happened on the way to the forum when people are are just roaring with laughter and you're riding the waves of laughter and and you know it's thrilling When you have a great material like that and then you remember the you know the moments of silence in in certainly in the in the plays of the terrence. Mcnally your in in iceman comments where you can feel the audience so intently listening feeling whatever is happening and there's a kind of silence that you can only here in the theater and you're all connected and you feel when you're really in its and those those times that don't it doesn't happen every night every night is not magical but there are those moments when it all comes together. And it's the reason why he going back to the scene of heap experiencing that and that and that connection with an audience. You know why. It's so difficult now with everything closed down and the fear of people gathering again is. That's a scary moment. 'cause we don't know what the ending of this move is that's been another victim of the corona virus the fact that Broadway theaters They've been dark for. I think over a month now. A lot of actors musicians and crew out of work producers must be hemorrhaging money. I don't know if insurance covers something like this. Do you think Broadway recover from this. Nobody knows that's that's what's so scary about all of this. The unknown we don't know and you know there. I try to be optimistic and then I also think somehow I don't think it's everything is going to be quite the same after this At least until there's a vaccine and people feel confident again who gathering a large group And you know it's not just theater. Obviously it's opera. Ballet classical used concerts Any performances escorts. It's difficult. The audience is a team art of the events. They are the other In a sense another actor in in in the in the evening and so Yeah it's it's it's devastating saying in at obviously financially people you know are struggling you just hope the government will will help continue to help in these situations with the people in the arts thought of last and regarding especially in those days. Yeah and you want to. Obviously you know. Help the people who really need it. The most but It's this is devastating to so many. The horrifying part is is. We don't know what's going to happen but you know we're I. I hope that we can all come out of this For the better in then something about this is going to bring people together that we have to. We all have to work together to help each other to protect each other in a situation like this and maybe you know at a time when we were famous famously. So divided in people. Don't listen to one another. Maybe maybe something like this will shake things up in an giang lighter note. I loved you. And the producers I was actually there The last preview before opening night times have you played a role originated by zero mastel Just I that that one For anything happened. Funny thing happened on the way to the forum and Was there another one I you know? In my mind's eye it's the weirdest thing I was thinking about this earlier. I swear that I saw you in a production of Rhinoceros. I don't think but now that I think I don't think you were ever in that production. What I'm thinking. I love that play but it would be an interesting thing to revive. I don't know whether either some I was asked. I was asked to do fiddler ones. I think I think I was asked They did a production that Alfred Molina or star starting originated and then when he left they asked me. If I would take over and I said now that I just thought I think that's where I draw the line in terms of zero mastel roles and you know the the the Jewish equation and I just thought now. I think I'm going to leave that alone. I mean obviously. It's a great part but yeah own. Look I'm getting a call of this is exciting. Who CALLING IN BANJA? I answer it. Sure why not. Hello Joe. I'm in the middle of a podcast with Ben. Mathis you have you heard of bad mathis. You've not well are. You're in for a treat. Is He's a delight and he's a big theater fan. So I this is Joe Montello Brexit Joe Lesser Known. She's no longer with us folk. Let me I will call you back when I'm done all right. Thanks Joe Go said by okay. Well that's very nice Have to ask you have played so many iconic roles on stage is there a role in the Pantheon of Broadway classics? That you're still dying to play on stage at some point. Willie Lohman and I'm where it's been. That's been in the works for while while trying to work out schedules and and And Joe Mental. I bring this up. Joe Mantell and I talked about this for years going back to when we did Love Valor compassion together. We were just children and he said to me one day while we were rehearsing someday you and I are the death of a salesman and now finally Scott Rudin whose would be producing is We've been it's there have been many issues because of scheduling and and possible Writers strikes and actress in a television series schedules. And now of course because of this everything is has changed and is up in the air but That would be great. I would love to see you in that. Yes Joe and I have been talking about this for years so it's I so I think it could happen if show-business ever opens. Yeah I think I would like to see you in the king and I. Kenya I it's puzzlement. The Jewish king exactly so the king of of what of visiting reproduce Jude Dory? That's the Yes well ban I I. I don't even know what to say to that. No I think there would be an uproar. Play THAT GAME. I did play. Yes the king of Broadway and it was a spectacular. I'M WE'RE GONNA take a quick break and then I'll be back with more when we come back in just a minute. This ad is a warning. Our democracy is under attack from the US Supreme Court in the middle of a deadly global pandemic people across Wisconsin. Were Planning on voting absentee to keep themselves and their families safe but the night before the election five Republican justices on the Supreme Court told thousands of people they would have to choose between risking their lives and forfeiting their right to vote. This supreme court favouring Republican interests over our democracy is nothing new. They gutted the Voting Rights Act. They invited billionaires and corporations to spend unlimited amounts trying to influence elections. They gave a green light to gerrymandering voter. Id Laws and voter rope urges now. A progressive movement is rising up to fight back. Because it's quite possible. The Wisconsin case won't be the last twenty twenty showdown over voting rights to be settled in the courts. And we simply can't trust this court to put aside partisan views and protect people's right to vote. Our courts are becoming too political. It's time to say enough. Learn more about how you can join the fight. By visiting demand justice DOT ORG slash kick. That's demand justice dot org slash kick. How did you first get into the theater from what I can recall? You didn't exactly come from big theater family. Did you know no-one no-one in in my life was involved in show business at all We were from Jersey City I had two older brothers Bob and Dan and my oldest brother. Dan is the one who really introduced me. to the theater He certainly encouraged me to read a great deal and then also took me to the theater. Took me to see plays in New York Broadway and off Broadway He volunteered my services for a play. That friends of his were doing in college Because they needed a child in one scene and so he that that was my first time. Stepping onto a stage was in this college production of a play by Frank. Gilroy who'll save the plow boy not a great title. This man who wrote the subject was roses but he wrote was a play he wrote cold. Who'll save the plows boy and I and I was They needed a child in somewhere in the second act. The first time I was brought on stage so it was really my brother who encouraged that and and and you know my my father had died when I was when I was eleven and my brother. Danny I think about you know he needed to be a father figure mentor in that way and so he he certainly was a big part of encouraging my love of reading and in of the Cedar. And what was your first? Big break was at present laughter. Or what well on Broadway? Yes that was that was my Broadway debut with George. The Great George C. Scott Young in nineteen eighty two. I believe in circle in the square. Theatre. Yeah I had done a television series with Mickey Rooney and Dana. Carvey cold one of the boys. I been in Los Angeles and then I came back to New York to do the series and then I and I knew it was not going to last very long. And then we did thirteen episodes and finished. And then I auditioned for this revival of the Noel. Coward play present laughter. The George C Scott surprisingly was not that he was. It wasn't surprising that he was directing but that he was starring in it as well in the in the Noel Coward role so that was unusual adding but he was a brilliant of comic actor as well as a dramatic actor and It was a and it was a big surprise. Hit for me. That was a huge huge thing. I'm trying to picture him in that role. That's interesting war in along the lines of John. Barrymore than as sort of aging Noel Coward Matinee Idol. It was more in the Jog Barry family but I'm but he wonderful in it I mean really Larionov and very touching two at time. I'm trying to remember what the line was from the from that show no prayer. No bribe no threat. No power will induce me to go to Africa with Bro. Willard and no Goddamn son of a bitch ever went to war by dying for his country. I immediately go into patent anytime. Try To picture George C. Scott and the role while he was the only person I know who could make the word. Darling sound like a command direct ahead and say darling and you would sort of jump to attention now Nathan before we talk about Penny Dreadful. I have to bring up. Perhaps a penny and I have to worry important. Yes yes I have to bring up your role in one of the all-time Great Broadway shows I would say it's right up there with Oklahoma. My Fair Lady West side story all the classics. You were in the legendary Musical Merlin starring of all People Doug Henning hundred gaining met. Remember Doug Henning. Yes yes well. You have a good memory yes. He was a very popular magician or is he likes to be called an illusionist. It's an illusion. He was very popular and in the seventies and Previously had done a musical. The magic show written by Stephen Schwartz. That was a big head right. I forgot about that. So someone in their infinite wisdom decided he should be in a real book musical. Where there was a. He played a character and in this case is he was playing young. Merlin and then it was written by the gentleman who wrote like Colombo. Lebanon Levinson Richard Levinson and bill link. Perfect talented they had done a lot of successful television but he had never written the book to a musical before and then it was and it was directed by a gentleman from the SE. Frank Dunlop a British director. Who eventually left everyone eventually? And yes Merlin. It was billed as Merlin the magical musical the entire family and Chita Rivera the grades legendary Chita Rivera played. She had no name. She was just called the Evil Queen. Anne I played her idiot. Son Prince Fergus. And she wanted me to become King of England and she was going to do anything to stop. Merlin from helping Arthur Young Arthur's and the throne. I I think that was vaguely the plot while although you know dog who was a Yes he was a very talented magician. was not really an actor right singer or a dancer but here he was starring in the middle of this big very expensive especially for the time Broadway musical. And he couldn't for example he couldn't do an English accent. He was from Canada so we that they said well. Since Doug can do an accident you should do an accident so it seems to be taking place somewhere outside of Ottawa and But we had all sorts of There were animals and from His Majesty Guy. They tried to build the show around all of these magic tricks and and also tried to create a real book musical and And didn't really work and I was sort of the comic relief and But you know my memory is just a joy of getting to work with Chita Rivera and I do remember. Deng haning this was. He told me a story once. He was a lovely man and he said he told me the story of opening night. He had an opening night in Vegas and there were many many scars there that night then the the end of his acts the finish to his big act. He and his wife. Debbie worked together and he would turn his wife Debbie into a white Bengal tiger. That was the big finish. And so they were. Debbie have disappeared and there's a pedestal and there's a white Bengal tiger sitting on it and the audiences cheering and he's taking a bow and he looks over and he sees the chain that is usually attached to the pedestal is swinging back and forth underneath the Tigers mouth and he looks at the tiger and this all happened in a manner of seconds like thirty seconds and the tiger is looking at the audience and like a buffet and starts to walk off the pedestal and head towards the audience and the audience starts to panic in screen and Doug who about ninety eight pounds soaking wet ran and grabbed the the chain started to try to pull the tiger and the tiger It was surprised by this. Turn and swatted him with his paw and Doug fell back and the next thing he knew he said the tiger was on top of him and was licking his entire face up to its hair life and he realized this isn't affection. He's cleaning his cray because he then took his entire head a little head and took his entire head into his mouth and he said I felt is teeth going into my neck and he said luckily I passed out and because I fainted. He said my body went limp. The Tiger opened his mouth to look what happened and by that time the trainer had gotten to him and pulled him off and he said the next thing. I knew I woke up in the dressing room. I was on a bad. He's an I looked up. And Bob Hope of all people with standing over me and he said that's the greatest finish. I've ever seen show business story while I mean you got animals. You've got a score written by film composer Elmer Bernstein. Don't for such musical romps Cape Fear. He was a lovely man. You had earned stain Don Black Don. Who wrote born free what to go out of me award winner. What could go wrong at the wrong? We in previews for months longer than any other show in the tree of Broadway but we opened people's Oughta was a revival. It's pretty much. The PLOT TO THE PRODUCERS. I think I wonder if some various machinations in the background with the producers of the show that it was an attack loss for something exactly well. Let's talk about penny dreadful this interesting role for you you actually play an lapd detective. Who is and I'm Jewish CA. Can you tell us about him? Well you know. This came about because the brilliant writer John Logan sent me an email and said I wrote this part for you and I hope you'll do it. He sent me the first episode and I was just knocked out in thrilled and gratified That he would think of me for this because I thought not many people in Hollywood would cast me in this particular role by John Who I know a bid from New York theatre had. He said he had he had seen me in. The iceman cometh and thought this is who I think should play this point So He's a Louis Michener is a is yes Is a grizzled old Jewish detective on the LAPD in one thousand nine hundred thirty eight? We've seen it all very. It's very much your classic hardboiled detective. But he's a complicated fella and he has partnered with this young Mexican. Who is the first Mexican detective on the Force Character Tiago Vega played by antastic young actor named Danny Zumbado and He has partnered with him really because no one else would would partner with him and I think he also understands what it is to be an outsider the ING Jew and he's becomes his sort of father figure and mentor. He's he's estranged from his own children as his wife has has died so I think he hopes to get it right with this young man that he he could hopefully be a better father to him that he wants to his own children and so it creates a real bond between them especially as as the episodes go on and it gets more and more complex but he's It's a wonderful characters. Certainly the most interesting in in an emotionally complex character that I ever played a really ill mortality. Yeah because people know you comedies a lot of times but you know it must have been fun to play someone who isn't a laugh riot. I mean you kind of had some gallows humor to him but he he also has a dark cynical view. Oh yes he kind of. Sardonic were yeah. He's one of the few serious show. He's one of the few people who does have a very dark sense of humor. But that's sort of the Raymond Chandler Tradition Yeah and look yes for people who if you only know me from something like modern family? Yes this this will be a revelation if you if you if like you you and you very kindly have followed a lot of my work in the theater then it will. It will be as quite a revelation. But it's it's a it's certainly is a. It's very exciting for me. Look I have I had a stunt double. It was so exciting. Or was that a. I go absolutely and you know I've pistol whipping kids dragging them to the edge of a cliff and then stepping on their faces. It was. I had the time of my life. yeah it was. It's great fun and a really terrific and challenging the aerial. It's an interesting through line from this new season to the original seasons because penny dreadful city of angels has this heavy influence from Pope Crime and detective novels of Thirties and forties which are in a way the natural successor of the old Victorian era. Penny dreadful CZ. Are you a fan of all the old Raymond Chandler Dashiell Hammett gumshoes and La Noir? Films like big sleep. Chinatown L. A. confidential those things. Oh Yeah I mean I you know it's funny. I went back to the to read the big sleep when when when I was in. La Filming this. And I just just marvel at Chandler's language and humor and You know that that there's a whole story in his life that is fascinating and He lived all over Los Angeles. I mean he. I mean really how we know Los Angeles a lot of that comes from Raymond Chandler. The the whole feel and his. The writing is just spectacular. It's it's you know he was such an original. So let's just say this has nothing to do with the old penny we have. We have a great deal of respect for the old penny dreadful and and it had it had a very ratisbonne fan base that loved it loved Eva Green. This has nothing to do with it. Add and this is not a continuation in any way. We must think of penny dreadful as a an anthology title. Not Unlike American Crime Story or American harvest. Right this is. This is Raymond Chandler meets Rod Sterling. There are there are there is a supernatural element to it that is tied into Mexican folklore. But it it is not They has nothing to do with taking characters from gothic literature. And mixing the mall right for for what it's worth Nathan. I was a fan of the original show and I really like where you guys are going with this new version this new anthology series that you've created here so while yeah I mean it's John this is all John logie he and he's it's more of a this is kind of you know. I I I hate to turn it into something political but it is. He did write it in in response and he's talked about this Publicly at the. Tc A rest day in. He said you know this was a reaction to what was going on right now in the country so there are those sociopolitical elements to it and yet it is. It is a thrilling yarn. He is created. And in this case the monsters that you met people my remember fondly from the original. The it's about the monsters inside all of us and and how How easy it is for people to get in touch with dark side and It's so it's really more about the human story. I think than than the kind of thing that happened. The first time around and It's a really look. I think it's a it's a really great and compelling story and and normally tapestry. There's so many different worlds It takes you know it takes a few episodes for you to start to see how all of that Inter Inter intertwines and I think people will find an injury and elements of the show are inspired by real events in La during that time as a New York. Did you know much about the dark history of l. a? In that era I did not I I was sort of aware of the Nazi infiltration of La but not to the degree that I realized when I started doing research and reading all these books about what was happening at the time because my character Lewis Michener is aside from the the central murder mystery that he and his partner trying to solve there is a he is working on this this the fact that there's all of these Nazi groups in La and Investigating them in one particular Guy Who's play by a wonderful wonderful German actor? Thomas Cashman so that all of that is you just can't believe what was going on and how how prevalent it was and there were just your is huge plays called the Deutscher House where they were meetings and rallies and there was a camp into Pango where they will are. They starting a militia group. There was the silver shirts were who were an offshoot of the Brown shirts. There was obviously there was the Ku Klux Klan. A Bud You know this was hard of the storyline was inspired by this brilliant Jewish. Royer Leon Lewis. Who formed a aspiring to investigate these organization really and foiled countless assassinations and killings and bombings and A. He was a true American hero and without him. I you know we. We could easily all be speaking German. It is unbelievable what he was able to put an end to. But and without the help really of The local police. Who told him you know? They were interested in and the government. Who said you know? We're not worried about Nazis Communists. And so eventually he went to all of the studio heads who were Jewish and gathered them at the hill. Crest Country Club and said listen. My Law Firm is is failing. Because I'm spending all this time running this network and here's all this information and I need some financial assistance to keep this going because you know the these people are liable to come to your neighborhood and you know you foil and be. They wanted to kill it. I you know many famous people that were on a list it just it was. It's extraordinary when you start to see the extent of it. That's incredible. I never knew that story. Oh Yeah so So that is a part of the story line and Wow and it gets more and more complex as as it goes on and a couple while. I I guess I shouldn't revealed to let let's leave some mystery here. And but the show does assert that Hitler had big designs on l. a. Some kind of sun drenched not to Utopia. And I do understand that. There may have been some basis for that. Our that's absolutely true e. absolutely wanted it for as a base of operations and mainly because of the film community because he wanted access all of that. Yeah total each of the show is just terrific. Nathan Before WE GO I. I know that you had a long friendship and working relationship with the late. Great Playwright Terrence McNally. Who just died a run a virus complications? I think three weeks ago Do you want to say a few words about him before we go? Look he was the Thea- worlds The world in general lost. A you know a giant major playwright and and a groundbreaker in terrance and and for myself personally. I lost one of my closest dearest friends and someone who certainly champions me very early in my career and the the WHO really gave me some of the best and most important roles in the theater and I certainly I. I would not have had a career without him and giving me those opportunities in wanting to collaborate that way and and I have been in New York for eleven years at that point but it was really when I did The first play I did his call the Lisbon. Traviata was the thing that really kind of put me on the map and changed everything So it was a collaboration of really close to of over thirty years. But the last thing we did was a revival of the play of his called. It's only a play on Broadway which was a great success in Was He was a a monumental part of my life and and And certainly of monumental part of the gay community and he was writing about gay issues way before other people Starting with his Broadway debut with the play cold and things that go bump in the night he was and he was just a just wonderful wonderful friend and and yeah it was a devastating loss talent and he will definitely be missed. What a loss. Well again on the lighter side I loved you and producers. It's more I appreciate that. I appreciate your kindness and generosity absolutely wants more look for Nathan Lane in Penny dreadful city of angels premiering Sunday April Twenty-sixth at ten P. M. Eastern Pacific only on showtime Nathan Lane. It was a total delight. Thank you name here. Ben Thank you take care of. Stay safe and healthy you too. Thanks again to Nathan Lane coming on the show. Look for Nathan in Penny dreadful city of angels premiering Sunday April Twenty-sixth at ten P. M. Eastern Pacific on showtime for more information visit Showtime Dot Com. If you enjoyed today's podcast and sure to subscribe to us on Apple podcasts. And rate and review US while you're there five star ratings detailed reviews or one of the best ways for new listeners to discover the show you can also follow us on facebook or on twitter at kick ASS news pod. Recommend us to your friends on your social media. Remorse Funds Duff visit kick-ass News Dot Com. And I welcome your comments questions and suggestions at comments at kick ASS news dot com for now. I'm Ben Mathis and for listening to kick ASS news.

Nathan Nathan Lane Los Angeles Director Joe Doug Henning Raymond Chandler New York Ben Mathis showtime terrence McNally George C. Scott Samm Levine Frank Nineteen Thirties America Hitler Pacific Nathan Lane salesman Joe Lesser Nathan Detroit
Nathan Matthews & Shauna Hoare Pt. 1

Crimes of Passion

44:06 min | 3 months ago

Nathan Matthews & Shauna Hoare Pt. 1

"Due to the graphic nature of these crimes. Listener discretion is advised. This episode includes discussions of violence, eating disorders, statutory rape, and pornography that some people may find offensive. We advise extreme caution for children under the age of thirteen. becky watts shifted in her seat avoiding contact with her psychologist. The dark haired woman sat in a cushion chair a few feet away and watched her client carefully. She could tell Becky's eating disorder had an improved just by looking at her the twelve year olds. Collar bones protruded beneath the straps of her tank top her cheeks were hollow her. Sharp. Instead of asking about food, however, therapist steer the conversation towards school. Becky hated, school. Her voice cracked when she talked about the bullies who pushed her tour pages out of her books and stole her coat they called her ugly and fat. She told her psychologists that all she wanted was to be skinny. Then maybe the bullies would leave her alone and she would be safe. After that Becky fell silent. She slowly raised her gaze and method dark-haired woman kind is. Her therapist abyss asked if there was anywhere, she did feel safe. Becky thought for a moment. She felt good at home, but only if her step wasn't there. She definitely didn't feel safe around Nathan, Matthews. I I'm leaning Hobbs, and this is crimes of passion a podcast original. In the legal definition, a crime of passion is a violent crime that occurs in the throes extreme motion leaving no time to reflect on the consequences. But in this show, we explore how passionate relationships sometimes lead us to criminal activity. How does a husband and wife become killer and victim or killer and co-conspirator? If there's a thin line between love and hate what manipulates our relationships into deadly results You can find episodes of crimes of passion and all other podcasts originals for free on spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts to stream crimes of passion for free on spotify just open the APP type crimes of passion in the search bar. This week we'll discuss becky watts relationship with her stepbrother Nathan Matthews and his girlfriend Sean Hoare. We'll explore the fraught history of their blended family and the conflicts that led to disturbing crimes which shock the city of Bristol England. Next week, we'll discuss the tumultuous investigation that followed and the widely publicized trial that transform the lives of everyone involved. We have all that and more coming up stay with us. In. December of Nineteen Ninety, eight, thirty, four year old daring goals worthy. Fell in love for the second time. He had recently split with his longtime girlfriend Tanya the mother of his two children. He wasn't looking for new romance, but he couldn't stop himself from blushes when he ran into thirty two year old Angie Matthews in one of Bristol's sprawling parks. Darren she had I met two years prior because they were each relationships at the time they had kept their distance from one another. But that chilly day they were both single and seeing Darren filled Angie stomach with butterflies. She knew she had talked to him their meeting felt like fate and their ensuing relationship was the easiest most natural connection either had ever experienced. Besides their chemistry, they shared similar circumstances. Angie had one child twelve-year-old Nathan and Darren had to six month old becky and her older brother. Danny, who was nearing four. For the children's sake. Angie. endearing took things slow instead of moving in together right away like they were itching to do the ease Nathan Danny and becky into their new relationship. For Ferdinand and Angie there was never any doubt that they would be a family according to Angie. We were always meant to be together I always knew it would be Darren and me. In two thousand after about a year and a half the couple decided it was finally time to move in together. Soon. The couple bought a house in East Bristol but had to work long hours to keep up with expenses. During the workweek Nathan stayed with his grandmother in the village of warmly while Danny and Becky stayed with their mother Tanya. Darren Angie spent their time at work daydreaming about the weekends when they had all three of their children in the house everything seemed perfect. They planned picnics, bike rides and camping trips to make the most of the small amount of time they had with Nathan, Danny and Becky. Still. Things weren't all ways ideal. Even, after two years, Darren had yet to gain the trust of Angie's fourteen year old son, Nathan. Nathan. Had never known his biological father that spot on his birth certificate was left blank and Angie refused to talk about him. Although? Nathan like Darren. He didn't want to get attached. His mother had deeded other men before and none of them stuck around. But Darren's children five year old Danny and two year old becky loved Angie as if she were their biological mother. When Sunday evening rolled around and it was time to go back to Tanya's house Danny pouted and becky sobbed. At first Darren thought Danny and Becky were just anxious about being separated from him Angie. However. He soon started to wonder if something more was going on. Becky seemed chronically nervous and withdrawn. She hardly made annoys all weekend then when it was time to go to Tanya as she balled and screamed until she made herself sick. Worried. For his daughter Safety Darren reached out to Tanya. Missed his concerns. She accused Aaron of trying to tell her how to parent her own children and brushed him aside. Unfortunately Darren's worst fears would soon be confirmed though it's not known exactly what Danny and Becky endured. Atanas. Tanya's home they were being neglected. Three years old becky was especially vulnerable and would be impacted by these experiences for the rest of her life. Before I continue with. becky psychology. Please note I am not a licensed psychologist or psychiatrist, but I have done a lot of research for the show. In a study of children, aged six months to three years psychologist from the University of Toronto found that victims of neglect had delays and cognitive function, motor development, and language. Becky had yet to say her first word by the age of three. Although Darren chucked her silence up to shyness at first. It's possible. Becky speech delays were a symptom of neglect she experienced at Tanya's. According to Dr Nathan, Fox, a child development specialist at the University of Maryland. Neglect teaches babies that their cries will not be responded to thus neglected children can become quiet and socially withdrawn even if they eventually receive better care. In September of two thousand, one Darren got a surprise call from social services letting him know that Becky and Danny had been taken into foster care. Darren's heart raced. He knew Tanya wasn't the most attentive parent, but he had no idea. The situation was so bad. Darren offered to pick up his children immediately, but the representative said that was out of the question now that Danny and Becky were in state custody, he would have to go through the courts to get his children back and battled Tanya for custody. For deer and the NGO. The next six months were a nightmare of paperwork endless court dates and desperate pining for their children. They were allowed to visit six year old Danny and three year old becky at their foster home but it broke their hearts to see their children. So confused. Darren promised they would be back home soon. In March two, thousand two after proving he and Angie worth it. Parents Darren was awarded full custody of Becky and Danny. Is Happiness bordered on delirium. Knee and Angie by the children s lieu of new toys hoping to give them a perfect welcome back home. Darren watched becky play with her dolls. was struck by how gently she handled them. When Danny was young, he made his Gi joes fight to the death. Becky on the other hand held her baby is as if they were real albeit tiny people. Darren, loved his daughters tenderness but wondered if it had been caused in part by the neglect she suffered. He knew Tanya didn't take proper care of her and he worried the foster home was even worse. The thought of Becky never being able to stand up for herself made his stomach drop. But he couldn't know for sure because Becky now nearing four years old had yet to say a single word. After laying her dolls on the floor becky ran over and gave her father a hug. Darren squeezed tight, promising himself that he'd never let anything bad happen to his daughter again. During in the G. believe that because Becky was so young, she had been traumatized by the neglect more than her older brother had. Unlike sister Danny seemed well adjusted. As a result Darren Angie focused more of their attention on becky desperately hoping that she would be. All right. One Friday evening essay stopped to pick fifteen year old Nathan out from his grandmother's house. Becky squirmed in her car seat. When she saw her stepbrother emerged from the small home, she reached her arm out to touch the window and said Nathan. deirim laughed with a mixture of relief and incredulity. Angie spun around to look at her stepdaughter. She couldn't believe what she'd heard. She tried to get back to repeat what she had said. becky smiles back but as much as angie coaxed, she couldn't get the girl to say anything else. Before she even said, Dad Becky knew her stepbrother's name. That Darren thought Nathan and Becky were destined to be close. It was clear. The three year old adored her big brother. Nathan would make it clear. However, the affection wasn't mutual. When we return Nathan and Becky grow up and grow apart. Listeners have you heard parkas newest original series yet it's called medical murderers and it exposes dark disturbing diagnosis that not every doctor wants to extend your life. Every Wednesday medical murders introduces you to the worst. The medical community has to offer men and women who took an oath to save lives, but instead use their expertise to develop more sinister specialties. Join my good friend host Alistair Murdoch as he examines the formative years and motives of history's most infamous killers, dissecting their medical backgrounds with expert analysis and professional insight provided by practicing. MD Dr David. Kipper. You'll investigate a wide range of heinous healthcare workers like the general practitioner believed to be the most prolific serial killer in modern history. Or the dentists who led a double life as a Hitman or even the doctor and gang member who mixed deadly potions for unhappy housewives to use on their husbands. When it comes to these true crime stories, the only thing the doctor ordered is murder. Follow medical murders free on spotify or wherever you get your podcast. This episode of crimes of passion is brought to you by simply safe. Everybody, wants to feel safe in their home. The best way to get that sense of security is with Simplisafe, it was designed to be easy to use. So protecting your whole home twenty, four seven has never been simpler. You can order online with a click of a button once it arrives just opened the box places sensors and plug it in. Now, your home is protected around the clock. As a new homeowner making sure my home security is of the utmost importance to me. So the fact that I could easily install simplisafe myself and get such great protection was of big relief. Plus I don't have to worry about any outrageous monthly fees or to your contracts. In fact, simplisafe's professional monitoring and emergency dispatch starts at just fifty cents a day. It's a great deal for what the US News and World Report called the Best Overall Home Security of twenty twenty at simplisafe dot com slash passion and get a free HD camera that simplisafe dot com slash passion to make sure they know that our show sent you. Now back to the story. Although she was just nearing for years old becky watts had already been through considerable trauma due to her mother's neglect she was quiet and withdrawn. Things started to look up win just before her fourth birthday in two thousand, two becky finally said her first word. The whole family gasped when the little girl pointed to her stepbrother and said his name Nathan. Becky, saying her stepbrother's name was a huge moment and came at a time when her father Darren was just starting to get closer to nate then. Slowly. But surely, Darren became the father figure. Nathan had wanted for so long and the two families merged together though not without some growing pains along the way. For becky's fourth birthday Darren built her a place at in their backyard. Anxious to break in the new toy, but she didn't want to do so alone. Now. That the ordeal would social services was over becky was coming out of her Shell and spoke quite frequently. She followed her brother seven-year-old Danny and fifteen year old Nathan around the house begging them to play with her. Danny. Little sister. But Nathan refused to acknowledge her he found becky noxious elected better when she was in foster care and he could have the house to himself on the weekends. Nathan was even more annoyed when his mother Angie told him that he would no longer be spending the weekdays at his grandmother's house. Now Danny and Becky were staying with them full-time daring. The Angie decided Nathan should to. The imagine loads of fun family bonding with the following year ended up being one long exercise and conflict management. In the fall of two, thousand, three, five year old becky was enrolled at summerhill primary where Danny was already a student. She came home crying nearly every day. Her teachers were concerned about her lack of engagement in the classroom and her in the. To converse with her peers. To try to offer her stepdaughter support and took a position as a teacher's assistant and Becky's class which made Nathan feel ignored by his mother. Well Becky was struggling to adjust to school sixteen year. Old Nathan was trying to figure out what he would do after graduation. He had never been an outstanding student and didn't have many strong interests. Nathan reminded dear of himself at sixteen. Me suggested Nathan follow in his footsteps and become a part time member of the army cadets. Me then followed his stepfather's advice and to his own surprise thrived in basic training. Darren Angie were so pleased with his success that as a present for completing his training, they bought him a brand new moped. Soon afterward, Nathan started training to be an electrician at the city of Bristol College be set his sights on buying a car. So he got an evening job at Domino's delivering pizza on his moped. On. Weekends when he wasn't working in the reserves, he took shifts at Sainsbury's a large chain grocery store. Nathan proved himself to be hardworking dedicated and responsible. Darren couldn't have been more proud of stepson. But just a few months later tragedy struck Nathan was hit by a car while riding down the highway. Deer in Angie rushed to the emergency room where they found him dazed suffering from shock and a broken wrist. His prized moped was found off the side of the road completely crushed. Soon afterward, Nathan soon faced another hit at just seventeen years old. He was diagnosed with Fibromyalgia a disease that causes muscular skeletal pain as well as issues with sleep mood and memory. According to Nathan, his illness left him wracked with pain chronically depressed and anxious. Following the diagnosis Nathan worked fewer hours and withdrew from his family. He spent most of his time locked in his bedroom choosing the eat his meals there rather than at the table. Nine year old Danny was the only one Nathan seemed to have any patience for. Despite their age difference, the two spent long hours playing video games together in their free time. As her brothers grew closer six year old becky felt increasingly alone. All through primary school. Becky felt like a misfit, her classmates Easter about her clothing and her wait while tests and assignments made her anxious. Nathan too was having behavioral issues. The whole family notice that Nathan was exhibiting questionable behavior around children in his late teens and early twenties. In two, thousand, seven when he was nineteen, he pulled up to Darren an Angie's house with four young girls in his car. The girls couldn't have been more than Twelve Darren, was horrified and pulled his stepson. Aside, he demanded to know what Nathan was thinking. Nathan. Claim that the girls just wanted to go for a ride. Shocked and confused Darren ordered Nathan to drive the girls back home. Nathan did as he was told but stayed at his grandmother's for nearly a week before showing his face at Darren Angie's again. Two years later, twenty one year old Nathan brought home a girl named shot whore who he introduced to Darren an angie as his girlfriend. Deer and could tell right away that Shana was a child. Unable to control himself daring blurted out. Are you trying to get yourself arrested? Nathan shot his stepfather and acid glare. He insisted that Chana was nineteen but Darren didn't believe it for a second. He told me to come back with a birth certificate or an idea proving no wasn't a minor. Until then he wouldn't allow her in the house Nathan left and a fury. Darren and Angie's dream of building an idyllic family never came to fruition. After Nathan's concerning behavior Darren didn't trust him around Becky. He wanted to confront Nathan but worried about pushing his stepson away. Since being diagnosed with fiber Myalgia, Nathan had become withdrawn. Darren Oh that his stepson would grow up and realize his mistake soon. Besides. Darren already had his hands full with Becky. Now eleven years old her social development was clearly stunted. had been able to keep her stepdaughter company as a teacher's assistant. But now that Becky was approaching secondary school, she needed to become more independent. becky still hadn't made any good friends and was so shy. She could hardly stand to go to the grocery store even with her parents there to hold her hand. becky's shyness was undoubtably made more severe by the bullying she continued to endure. According to Becky her classmates teased her relentlessly calling her ugly and fat. She begged Aaron and Angie to homeschool her, but they couldn't afford to take enough time off work to teach becky themselves. With her confidence crushed by bullies eleven year old becky trying to lose weight hoping that being thinner would make her less of a target. She asked Angie to buy her low calorie frozen meals and begged Darren to take her to the gym. Although Darren an angie trying to encourage their daughter to lose weight in a healthy way. becky skipped meals and exercised until she was dizzy and faint. Becky felt her heartbeat rapidly with her eyes fixed on the punching bag hanging in front of her she reeled her arm back in swung with all her might. Despite her? The bag hardly moved. Her face grew hot though weather from embarrassment or exhaustion, she didn't know. All she knew was that she could feel her father watching from across the gym. She could sense his worry his constant overbearing worry. She passed out while exercising once and ever since then he wouldn't let her come to the gym on her own. Becky knew her father thought she was too skinny but she didn't agree when she looked in the mirror she saw a distorted version of herself. She saw what all the bullies at school told her she was. No matter how she became she couldn't stop seeing it. She kept throwing punches trying harder and harder to make the bag budge. Her breasts were rapid and her stomach was empty. She continued to swing even while her vision blurred around the edges. Her ears rang her father sprinted to her side and caught her as she fainted. By the time she was twelve years old becky's weight had dropped just seventy three pounds. Her menstrual periods which had begun a year earlier stopped entirely. Terrified for his daughter's Health Darren brought her to a doctor who diagnosed her with Anorexia and severe social anxiety. When twenty, three year old Nathan heard the news he accused Becky of faking her eating disorder for attention. Anorexia. NERVOSA is a highly complicated disorder that can be influenced by social conditioning, peer pressure, and personal psychology. In becky's case, her strongest motivation seemed to be to escape the scrutiny of her peers not to get more attention. Her eating disorder was also likely spurred on by other less conscious motivations. In. Their Essay Hungry to be noticed young women, Anorexia and schooling psychologist. Emma Rich Rachel Holroyd and John Evans described disordered eating as a reaction to feeling powerless or out of control. Becky knew what it was like to be powerless her early childhood neglect and her inability to protect herself from Nathan's advances could have caused her to feel helpless. According to Rich Holroyd, and Evans compulsive exercise in self starvation can be a way to demonstrate autonomy and symbolic control. In other words if someone with Anorexia, Nervosa can control their body they may feel less anxiety about their lack of control over other things. To help becky confront these feelings and recover from her eating disorder. She spent two hours each week meeting with a child psychologist. It was during one of these meetings that she told her therapist she felt unsafe around her stepbrother. In February two, thousand ten shortly after Becky's confession twenty-three-year-old Nathan brought his underage girlfriend Shauna back to Darren? Angie's house. Here, and couldn't believe the couple was still together before he brought Shana inside Nathan showed his stepfather, her birth certificate which showed she had just recently turned sixteen. Darren was shocked. Then meant when twenty one year old Nathan brought Shana over two years prior she had been around fourteen years old. Darren was disgusted by the age gap between Nathan Shawna but he was also still worried about pushing his stepson away. It had taken years to gain Nathan's trust. Accusing him of being troublingly interested in adolescence might destroy their relationship forever and Darren wasn't ready to take that risk. Ultimately, he agreed to let Shana inside although it may during an easy to watch the couple cuddling on the couch. Angie seem to think that Shawna could be good Nathan ever since his fibromyalgia diagnosis he'd been depressed and reclusive, but Sean brought him out of his shell. As much as Darren and Angie wanted to convince themselves. There was good in Nathan's relationship. It was toxic from the start. Nathan's attraction to Shana was predatory. Defined as sexual activity with a child, he groomed her into thinking their relationship was healthy. Darren an angie might have seen a brighter more at version of their son when Sean was around. She and Nathan were alone. He turned into something much worse. Up Next Nathan becomes a monster. If you've got an old uncomfortable mattress keeping you awake at night we need to look into Casper it's asleep company with outrageously comfortable products at not. So outrageous prices casper has everything you need to build a bed of your dreams award winning mattresses, bedding, bed frames, and even a dog bed. Casper's original mattress provides a support in cooling you need with the comfort you love it's designed with four layers of premium foam to relieve pressure for all night comfort and now you can. Experience the Casper Comfort with a brand new mattress. Now, featuring zone support with softer foam around the shoulders and firmer foam under the hips laced end lower back, you can sleep with proper spinal alignment experienced casper entrance form. The way you sleep once news at a time, go to CASPER DOT COM and use code passion for one hundred dollars off your mattress order. That's Code Passion for one hundred dollars off your mattress order terms and conditions apply. See. CASPER DOT com slash terms. Now back to the story. In February of two thousand, ten things were tough for during an angie goals worthy. Darren's daughter twelve year old becky had been diagnosed with Anorexia. But was seeing a child psychologist and showing signs of recovery. Meanwhile, Angie Son twenty-three-year-old Nathan was in a relationship with a sixteen year old girl named Shana. Although, it may Darren an Angie uneasy. They were afraid to come down too hard on Nathan who had been depressed and was diagnosed with chronic pain conditions six years prior. Instead of confronting Nathan, they allow the relationship to continue. That summer becky celebrated her thirteenth birthday. She was back up to a normal weight and even eight a full slice of chocolate cake. Because, bullying at school contributed to her disordered eating, becky started ninth grade the following year with the Bristol Hospital Education Service. Within a few weeks, she made two close friends and even took a position mentoring sixth and seventh graders. Although she remained shy she gained more confidence every day. Not everyone in the household could bear the tension however. It's unclear exactly why but in two thousand eleven sixteen year old Danny decided to move back with his mother Tanya. He came to visit Darren and Angie every so often, but they saw less and less of him as the years went on. After he left things got even more complicated. In September two thousand eleven, Angie woke up unable to see. After a few days, her vision returned, but the experience was terrifying. It took nine months of tests before doctors concluded, Angie had developed multiple sclerosis condition that affects the nerves in the brain and spinal cord leading to problems with muscle movement, balance, and vision. After his mother's diagnosis twenty, five year old Nathan who was still living at home took his stressing grief out on fourteen year. Old becky. When becky left her things lying around the house Nathan accused her of trying to trip Angie. In. Nathan's mind Becky was thoughtless selfish and out to hurt his mother. Becky may have been careless occasionally, but according to both of her parents, she didn't have a malicious bone in her body. She was gentle quiet and eager to be liked as Nathan continue to bring eighteen year old sean over becky tried to form a friendship with a girl who was closer to her age San, her stepbrother's. In her early teens, becky started to experiment with fashion and makeup, but was too shy to go to shops and did all of our shopping online. Because she couldn't try anything on before she bought it. She ended up with plenty of ill-fitting clothing. Instead of returning the items as her father wanted her to. Becky. Gave Shauna heckert close. Shona. Always took what becky offered according to. Darren. However, she was dismissive becky and never properly thanked her for the gifts. When Darren aspect why she continued to give Sean a presence becky responded. I want her to be my friend. The overly generous behavior becky displayed towards Shawna might have been an example of what psychologists term, indiscriminate friendliness or a lack of inhibition with strangers. Researchers from the Oregon Social Learning Center have found that children who experienced early neglect or spent time in foster care were more likely to exhibit risky behavior like indiscriminate friendliness. They also hypothesized that neglectful and abusive parenting is linked to the formation of insecure attachments. An insecure attachment style is one dominated and motivated by fear and is distinct but related to indiscriminate friendliness. As survivor of childhood neglect, Becky craves stability and love, but didn't always know where to look for those things. To becky Shawna seem like a potential friend even if the eighteen year old had no interest in her. Sean and Becky had more in common than I of them realized. For the first thirteen years of her life, she bounced from foster home to foster home living with six different families before her mother finally got custody of her. However, her mother also had seven other children and couldn't keep a close eye on Shana. Less than a year after moving in with her biological family fourteen year old Sean and twenty one year old Nathan. Nathan. Groom Shana into thinking their relationship was normal and healthy. While it seemed to Darren Angie that she brought out the brighter side of their son's personality things were far different in private. Nathan was manipulative, controlling and sexually aggressive. By the time Shauna was eighteen. Nathan was keeping tabs on her at all times constantly paranoid that she was trying to see other men. In stark contrast to the feverish work ethic of his Teenage Years Twenty five year old Nathan quit working altogether. He said the pain from his fiber Myalgia was too much to bear but Darren suspected it had more to do with his stepson wanting to control Shana. In later, Statements Sean have reported that Nathan handled her money. So she had to go through him to get food or cigarettes. Even, forced her to drop out of college because he feared she was getting too close to other men. Shauna said that during one argument Nathan threw her on the bed and strangled her until she almost blacked out. When she tried to break up with him, he allegedly scratched his face and stabbed himself with dinner fork. Darren Angie had no idea how abuse of the relationship was. Angie struggles with multiple sclerosis distracted her endearing from Nathan's transformation. Only. Shannon knew what he was truly capable of. Sean fell trapped but soon, she became even more dependent on Nathan. In mid two thousand thirteen twenty-six-year-old. Nathan. Announced such Shauna was pregnant at the age of nineteen. With Darren Angie's help, the couple moved into state subsidized housing in East Bristol. They gathered essentials and welcomed a baby girl into the world and early two thousand fourteen. Fifteen. Year old becky was ecstatic to be an aunt beneath told her. She wasn't allowed anywhere near the baby. Darren Angie couldn't understand why Nathan was so cruel to his stepsister. As becky's confidence grew Nathan seemed intent on destroying it. Although he and Shana now have their own house they visited. Darren. Angie's often. Neither me to habit of hiding behind corners and jumping out to scare becky according to Shana. He thought the look of fear on Becky's face was hilarious. As becky turned the corner into the kitchen she screamed and jumped backwards. Nathan had been waiting there ready to pounce the moment he saw her. Now, he stood before her laughing hysterically. Becky ben forward hands on her knees and steadied her breathing. Her face grew pink. She hated how easily he got under her skin. For years, he'd been making her life miserable. She'd never been anything but nice to him. She couldn't understand why he hated her. Becky wanted to run to her room and hide but that would mean Nathan had one. She had to stand her ground. He couldn't know how afraid he made her she knew Nathan liked making her uncomfortable. That's what scared her the most. Becky wasn't the only one who feared Nathan. To had good reason to be scared. Recently she'd become a registered care for. On top of taking care of the new baby, the job kept Shana stressed and busy she little time to devote to Nathan who became frustrated at the lack of physical affection between them. He had always been sexually demanding even though Shauna was nearing twenty one and Nathan was almost twenty eight. He still had a fixation on children. According to later investigations of his computer history Nathan viewed pornography at least once a day. The vast majority of the videos he watched featured age play and women dressed as schoolgirls. Shawna's speculated that Nathan's obsession with pornography developed shortly after he was diagnosed with FIBROMYALGIA. He spent weeks alone in his room which gave him ample opportunity to download and watch explicit videos. His inappropriate attraction to teenage girls was something that Shauna felt complicit in as she was a minor when she and Nathan I got together. She had always hoped he saw her as mature as older than she really was. But now she understood that her age hadn't been something. Nathan. Ignored all those years ago. It was something he liked the selling point of their whole relationship. And now Nathan wasn't satisfied. SHAUNA was too old for him. It embarrassed Shana. But after enduring pressure from, Nathan, she agreed to a threesome with another unnamed girl. Still it wasn't. Enough. Nathan would lead a report that his fibromyalgia made him feel inadequate and useless. Perhaps combat these feelings he sought to control those who were younger than him. In December two, thousand, fourteen with. At Home Twenty eight year old Nathan started talking to Shauna about kidnapping a teenager. At first, it seemed like a creepy joke but when they were out in public Nathan started pointing at young girls and singling them out as potential victims. He wanted Shana to help him lure a teenager to their home. A series of text messages later revealed that Shawna played along though whether she was serious or just too afraid to contradict Nathan is unclear. In. One message from December two, thousand, Fourteen Shana said. Just went into cost cutter and saw a pretty petite girl almost knocked her out to bring Your Home L. O. L. Excell excell. Nathan responded. Don't you almost me now do it. Shawna maintained that she never believed Nathan was serious about committing kidnapping. According to her she thought it was all a fantasy even after he bought stun-guns, handcuffs and duct tape. Meanwhile. Darin Angie remained oblivious to Nathan's perversion. They were still focused on managing Angie's MS and fostering becky self confidence because she had been so socially withdrawn during primary, school, Darren Angie rarely refused her request to hang out with friends. On the night of Tuesday February seventeenth two, thousand, fifteen, sixteen year old becky met up with her boyfriend four months. Seventeen year old fluke. Oprah Hensley. Darren Love Luke because he brought out an outgoing but outside of Becky's personality that he'd never seen before. That night, the young couple play video games together in Becky's bedroom until luke left late in the evening. He would later report that becky seemed imperfect spirits and nothing was out of the ordinary. When Darren came home from work around eleven o'clock that night becky asked him to make her a pizza although he was exhausted Darren would never refuse his daughter Emile. After everything they went through with her anorexia. He was just happy to see her eating. He threw together a pizza for her and told her good night before heading to bed. He had no idea. It would be the last time. He saw his daughter alive. Thanks. Again for tuning into crimes of passion, we'll be back Wednesday with part two of Nathan, Mbeki Story. You can find more episodes of crimes of passion and all other park asked originals for free on spotify. Not. Only to spotify already have all of your favorite. Banal spotify is making it easy for you to enjoy all of your favorite podcast originals. Crimes of passion for free from your phone desktop or smart speaker. To stream crimes of passion on spotify, just open the APP and type crimes of passion in the search bar. We'll see you next time when true love means true. Crime. Crimes of passion was created by Max Cutler, and there's a park cast studios. Original Executive Producers Include Maxon Ron Cutler sound designed by Trent Williamson with production assistance by Ron Shapiro Carly, Madden, and Larson. This episode of Crimes Of Passion was written vicarious Alan with writing assistance by Abigail Cannon I'm Laney Hobbs. Listeners don't forget to check out the gripping new podcast, original series medical murders from trauma surgeons to hospice staff medical professionals are trained to give exceptional care. But what about those? WHO use their skills not to heal but hurt? Every, Wednesday meet the worst. The medical community has to offer men and women who took an oath to save lives, but instead use their expertise to develop more sinister specialties follow medical murders free on spotify wherever you get your podcasts.

Becky Dr Nathan Darren Angie Darren Nathan Danny Nathan Shawna becky watts Shana Nathan Matthews Angie becky Shawna Tanya Becky ben spotify Fibromyalgia Angie Matthews Nathan I Anorexia Darren Oh
Ep # 358: Making A Successful Career Change with Nathan Seaward

The Daily Grind Business Podcast

31:48 min | 1 year ago

Ep # 358: Making A Successful Career Change with Nathan Seaward

"Uh. I'm callin Morgan and you're listening to episode three fifty eight on the daily grind. So, as you know, I decided to rebuild my website, using wicks after years of frustration with just putting up with what I had I decided to start with a blank slate and design my website, the way. I wanted it, and that's why I chose wicks. I was able to choose from over five hundred amazing templates to get the exact feel and look that I was wanting, I was able to customize my site easily and add and move things where I wanted to ultimately optimize, the experience for the visitor. The state has actually been completed for some time now, I'm just doing some final touch ups and adding three hundred and fifty plus episodes, which as you can imagine, take some time, but what would have cost me thousands of dollars and months of time I have completed super inexpensive Lii in only a few short weeks. Furthermore. Six is actually designed for any device desktop and mobile, which, as you can imagine being in twenty nine thousand nine hundred is super important, and valuable along with it, the amazing SEO capabilities, that wicks present saves me, a whole bunch of time and money and SEO, as, you know, when it comes to blogging podcasts, video is super important for growth in viewership, ultimately, what I've learned is that building a website doesn't have to be painful. It doesn't have to cost thousands of dollars and it doesn't have to waste a whole bunch of your time. It can actually be really cheap inexpensive and enjoyable using wicks to get started with which yourself today for fifteen percent off and build the site optimized for you and your business and your customers. Go to wicks dot com forward slash podcast. Again, that is w x dot com forward slash podcast. Before we jump into today's episode everyone I wanted to tell you about a. Cool little thing that I'm doing this year will be taking part in the Niagara, golf marathon and support of some amazing great local charities myself, along with my team and others will be playing a hundred holes of golf in one day as you heard that, right? One hundred holes Argos a team is to raise ten thousand dollars which will support some amazing local charities, including past oh, mental health. Which is super super important to me. All donations of twenty five dollars or more will receive a tax receipt. All I'm asking is if you enjoy the show and you're wanting to give back his living is giving everyone, please, please, please go the description in this podcast, click the link donate whatever amount you feel fit, and what you're comfortable with all proceeds go to an amazing 'cause and I would really really appreciate your support without further ado, everyone. Let's get into today's episode. Welcome back to the podcast everyone. On today's episode we sit down with Nathan seaward Nathan enjoyed a successful sixteen year career as an airline pie. Before becoming a personal coach and host of the Nathan seaward show. He believes through the process of self discovery and self mastery. Entrepreneurs can change the world wheels creating extraordinarily lies for themselves and their families. He supports entrepreneurs to create game changing businesses that help people and the planet in new and innovative ways from being a successful entrepreneur in the food industry to leaving at the height of his piloting career to serve others. He's always lived at the edge of his comfort zone taking on new and challenging things in service of being his best self and serving the world to Dan, the show. Nathan shares his amazing entrepreneurial journey with us. So as always everyone be sure you have a pen piece of paper, sit back and really enjoy today's episode with Nathan seaward will Nathan seaward, welcome to the daily grind. How are you today? I'm great. Yeah. Thanks for having made through a pleasure. Yeah. Of course, Nathan Nathan, if you wouldn't mind say, for some people. They're listening to this being first introduced to you disappointing a little bit more, who you are. And what it is that you do. Yes show us I have this funny accent. So I'm from New Zealand's grow up in Christ. You it just small City New Zealand and fame, obsessed with aviation in aeroplanes my whole life. Okay. And to the point, where as a kid, I would cut the port just lying the needs. So the run wife, Alice that was at the time when everyone else is going into the mole. I was at the foot. And so I followed that all the way through. I got my flowing license when I was seventeen lift school became a flying instructor joined the airlines when I was twenty two and then hit a really great live near career as Nealon pilot Lewin. Pull around Australia, New Zealand the Pacific islands and then lived in Japan for the last four years of my career, and flew all around Asia, and it was a childhood dream, you know, that was. I just knew I wanted to do that on his relentless the suing in it was kind of obsessed with it, my whole life and right through my twenties and underlying that I always also had this feeling that it was something more, okay? And that was kind of made to make a difference of some kind is just something that was always the as. Had this patient for flying. That was my patient. But also this Nagin thing that, you know, the something bigger. So I tried a bunch of different businesses. My fist business was washing cows, when it was about ten years old, and my brother, and I started a restaurant in, when I was in my early twenties and rental side my Korean. So I was always trying different businesses and just sort of seeing. You know what, what's this other thing that I wanted to pursue? And then I had a, a really bad break up. Which is I think we all good story sought. Through that I hired a coach to kind of help me make sense. It was the fist time it hit a really big challenge in my life. And fell in love with coaching fell in love with the priciest. It got me. Oh clear on what I wanted to do. And what I was missing and so much more than just a relationships. And so. I came to the roads I should have. I think this is the thing. I think this is the indecision of helping people creating a business making a difference. So agree my coaching business for a few years, alongside flying in the came to a very difficult point in my Ginny. Which is choosing to leave my career at the age of thirty four type issue coaching Soltan. So I've been a full-time coach now for the last two years. Wow. Well, congratulations. It's, it's interesting. How you knew what you wanted from such an early age and you were lent list to pursuing it. Do you feel like you sort of overtime? I if they lost the passion, but felt like there was more for you, as you in your own words and decided that although you may love flying and being a pilot in order to pursue this inner thing inside. I need to take a different path to get there. Yeah. And it took me a long time to have that realization. I knew I wanted to I knew flying was number one at that point. So I knew I wanted to goes far as I could and they career and yeah, just, I guess, I, I, I didn't know, when that time would come I probably thought sort of in the back of my head, maybe other slides forty. So I knew I probably wasn't gonna go, you know, into until my sixties. Yeah. But nothing really prepares you to give up the career you love. I think stroll the drivers to to do something else. That's very challenging moment yet. I mean take us take us into that. I think it's really interesting because a lot of people listening, they are in a job that they probably don't like, and they're trying to do what you did and break out of that, but you were in something that you love. And it was your childhood dream, walk us through like the time it took for you to, to finally make that decision to realize that, you know what I'm going to move into coaching. This is something that I really wanna do is my this is my is my new passion. Yeah. I try sit back to, we'll as I see I was already trying site. This is so this, this whole thing was don't completely foreign, but I was working in the corporate side of the fifty alone. I worked with and that was the path. I thought might be my pasta making a difference was the coming know chief pilot old becoming pilot miniature something like that. And as I go more into the corporate side I was like, wow, this is so aligned with who I am. And so that point I had to change direction. So I took this job in Japan because the schedule was two weeks on two weeks off. Okay. Okay. This is probably going to be my entry into ending more time to create something to create a business, create something you. So that was in two thousand and live. And I made that decision. Took me another few years to get the experience joined that company in twenty fourteen and then started the business ran twenty fifth Dane and lift my job in twenty seventeen so probably the seeds were planted in twenty eleven and then took another six years to understand it. Find the right. Business train up really make sure it was a viable option to get to the point. I knew it was it was time to leave. Why coaching for you? Like why was that? For you the path that you wanted to go down you you'd started restaurants, obviously, you know, being in the restaurant business. My father in, I grew up in the restaurant, but it's, it's probably the most difficult business to be successful on. And you probably learned from that, for sure. Why, why coaching for you? Well, again, it's, it's easy for me to take like this now. But at the time it was a real slow process of discovery just to, to carry out that, but what I realize is I was looking for three things one I wanted to make a difference. And I wasn't feeling that in my flying career. I feel like I was having a ton of fun, and it was a great job. And I got to say the world and light bigger planes, and it was great. But I didn't feel like I was making the kind of, impact that I knew I wanted to make so whatever I did hit to make an impact head to make a difference. And seek thing is I wanted to travel, so I had this dream of living in medic minimalist lifestyle. And that really resonated with me. And so I've got the minimalist pot down. When I lived in Japan by the faith the gift to live in a small apartment, when you live in Japan, I was admittedly minimalist ended, the pot was missing was while I wanna be out to go and live in. John, Tina, I want to go and live in billon for three months. I want to do that. So that was the second requirement and one was I hate to make a ton of money. So I wanted to be wealthy. One of the weird things about being flying Korea as you can see your celery. So you all the rest of your career, you know exactly what you're gonna make you saw. And it was really troubling to me, whereas in businesses, you know it's, it's an unlimited sailing and seeks Benichou. So those are the three things and coaching when I looked at it was like, well, if I started the coaching business, I'd be at to make a difference. It'd be helping people every day I can do it for me anyway, of my coach was living in Bali at the time. And this potential to make a lotta money. There are other people that make a little money in this career. So I know I can do it, and when you decided to make that, like, who at the beginning stages, did you want to help coach was at people who were in a similar position to you or were you focused on. Maybe some people who are more advanced. Well, the Toronto's everyone at anyone who was willing to be coached anyone is willing to pay. But what, what resonated with me because I'd Bain through this break up and realized a lot of mean were struggling in the same ways I with I was really drawn to help me. So that was the first couple years was was doing a little means weak and. Particularly in New Zealand. We have one of the highest suicide rates in the developed world, really. And which is shocking to people because it's a beautiful country. It's a wealthy country were very friendly people. And yet we kill ourselves, one of the highest rates in the developed world. And that really troubled me, and I saw that seventy five scene would mean in. As I dove into that topic around suicide. I saw so many Cullman three, it's about just mean that went free to be themselves or didn't know how to express themselves or didn't know how to express emotion or with tripton relationships and, and didn't know how to make difficult choices to get out of them. So that was the initial patient was created a podcast around, that I interviewed fifty mean on my podcasts of psychologists, therapists mean, the, the front line of that Beddoe in New Zealand, and dive into that. So that was the fist group of people helped. Yeah. How how long from the, the moment you decided that you were going to start coaching? How long did it take you, you know, for you to get comfortable with while this is really starting to work? I'm starting to generate leads starting generate revenue, the way I want to like how long did that take? I think if I look back the first couple years was. It was just amazing. That someone would pay me at all. That was, I think a lot of people have that experience when they sat at business as well. You know, I created a thing, and then somebody paid me for this is amazing. And I joined a really high end mastermind. That was full of six Stephen coaches. I'm interested of told my way into okay. And from there, they told me all here's how you make twenty thousand proposals in this type of client, you want to be working with, and they might business just skyrocketed because I was surrounded by those types of people, and it was at about the three got you. So it's what I said of making hundred twenty thousand plus, she'll for people who are listening to this who understand coaching, but are unfamiliar with maybe sending a twenty thousand dollar proposal and working with people like that. And working with someone on a one on one basis for someone who may feel like they have something to give and may feel like coaching his for them, like, what's big piece of advice. What's something that you feel like would help accelerate their process? Yeah, good Christian. I think. We get into the coaching business because we want to help people will make a difference. And I think it's important to understand what coaching isn't because of so many misconceptions out, the so when I became a coach, a lot of people sort of see also why you had to how you qualified to tell you how to live their life and I was found that an interesting thing, and I think it sort of troubled me for a little bit like oh yeah. You know the impulsive syndrome came up to them my. Yeah. Then I realized that it's got nothing to do with my life. The people that come to me, only interested in, if I can help them not they don't they don't go through my life of the fine. Tune con fi fine-tooth crime and kind of say while while you qualify doubt me. They go they get into conversation with me, and then they say to themselves can this help me not, so it's realizing that you don't have to have the perfect life because you're not going to be sitting on the phone, telling people how to live your life. That's completely the opposite Athos of what a great coaches to what we do is get really curious in really dive date into that person's life and help them being or of themselves and help them understand the in selves they life and the mission being a so I think the biggest bit of advice, I would say is don't be shy consumed with her you in what you will bringing be really concerned about being curious about other people. Yeah. I think that's super important in early stages for you. How were you able to reach out to people let them know what you do in how you're going to help them, like, like for those first few clients that you had like walk us through? How did you how were you able to secure those first few clients? Well, you know, way more people than you think you do. So the advice is always when you're starting in businesses just reach out to people, you don't need a funnel. You don't need to be marketing. You don't need to be doing Facebook. It's just start reaching out the people and offering to help. Carries on for my last point is don't try and create a sense. The business that looks like a business with a marketing plan and everything to stop talking to people in offering to help them. And this goes for any business. This is not just the coaching start seeing what problems people have and how you might be out of Seoul's them. Yeah. And if you start like I'm a big believer in that to start with what problems are out there. And I think it's, it's realizing to what you can help solve at the beginning as well. I think maybe a lot of people look at what are other people struggling with? And then forget to look at, like, what can actually help someone with right? Yeah, yeah, that's right. Is the framework uses the Iki KYW Japanese framework, which is what do I love doing? What am I good at? What does the will need and what can I get paid for? And you have to constantly look at that book that those four quadrants you're looking to find your business. If you might love. Ironing clothes, but does the world Nathan. But I close east will people pay for it's kind of, but not really this snow, not a high high ticket business. Yeah. So it doesn't fit into old, the so you constantly looking at what I love. So I don't know if it's the same to you. But when I looked at what I love, I love deep conversations. I love conversations like this. And so I felt we'll where else can I do that in podcasting was very natural slow on, so that it's a way that I could grow my business people would I would be paid for it. Tenjin gingerly. And I think the would native the type of conversations that you and I are bringing to the world I love to do it. I love to be in conversations individually I became good at it. And so that became the Knicks teams has had away trick people why looked at will I put it through that same Sota. So I realized okay I can do this. I love podcasting. And it's going to actually support my business. A hundred percent. How can someone out there who's listening to this find would it is that they're passionate about and what, you know, sort of their mission is so to speak because that's something that you've uniquely done is you've gone from something that you really love to do is being a pilot in defining, what seems to me like what you were really meant to do. I think a lot of people struggle with that. If you could kinda give or, or talk a little bit of, on that topic of how somebody out there who may want something different for their life, but are able to sort of think through what they should be doing what they're passionate about how they can sort of find that that energize in mission themselves. Yeah. There's a couple of ways to look at it. So I'm the professional trained that like all I really know have does train up things in the know after them that sort of how I've run my life. And so it's kind of weird for me. So the way I do it is, if people come to me inside. I know what my mission is my tip is what I'm going to be doing one of the fifth things I'll say, is what he not want to do. I like that. And, and so that, that list is long normally in so because people were getting so stuck with trying to find this thing. They sometimes can't see the woods for the trees by looking at the opposite end gun. What don't I wanna do you like oh, actually I don't want to drive a rubbish truck that I want to what do these different things. So then they'll say, well, look, you actually have a lot, more clarity than you think. You do. So true. It's funny. You say that because that's how I when I was younger. I didn't know really what I wanted mrS after my golf cream whatnot. I didn't know what I wanted, but it's funny 'cause I had a clear understanding of what I didn't want. And I think knowing what you don't want for me. Drove me to finding like what can I do differently? Like, why are the people succeeding, like how do I do things differently from my knee? Neighbors who go to work every day. And you start to realize educate yourself on what they're doing. And then just like I want to do the opposite of that. So who's doing the opposite of that? And then you learn from that. Yeah. And. You don't have to figure out exactly what it is at the start. Like, I think that's a great process that you went through what done. I wanted to figure out what's the opposite. The kinda going. Okay like you. You hit me talk about my journey. I know exactly my mission and exactly the business plan and how I was going to make money out of it. I kinda wait hall. Hey, I think I wanna make a difference cooled is the fifth seat is the fifth seat of something. So if I follow that will. How would you wanna make a difference? I don't know. And then. Maybe it's helping people. Okay, well, how do you help people will? Maybe it's conversations. Like I will have can you help people to accommodations will they call it therapy, or coaching a couple of different avenues. So it's starting to narrow it down. And you just follow the whispers. So I think one of the challenges kinda sitting at home on the couch going. What's my mission will what's my fifth issue and just trying to think it out. I don't think it's going to look like that for anyone. It's gonna look like you having an inkling about something, and then pulling omits freed in trying stuff and talking to people, experimenting in joining groups and masterminds and doing a cool. That's how you're gonna find it. Yeah. And it's just the wording to. I find really interesting like when people sit back in there like I'm trying to find what I'm passionate about in often times when they're trying to find what they're passionate about. They sit back and they don't do anything, and they think it's gonna come to them, but finding something is really like you have to pursue what that is. You're trying to find treasure. You can't sit down. You have to actively go looking for it. You have to find clues you need to learn, you need to make mistakes, and it's no different. Whether you're trying to find treasure trying to find what you're passionate, but you have to be out actively looking for it. Yeah. And I found that really challenging it is the beginning of mind scenes. Yeah, they call it is being willing to suck fail. Not find the answer struggle. And I think we with so used to fool in out of the habit of being begins when we were kids, we just sucked at everything, but we just keep trying. We didn't have this opinion about failing and now what kind of comfortable with specie I can speak coming from Korea that was highly paid, and, you know, high status and looked good. This is very comfortable. So the idea of the in going and doing something really am. They give us and trying to kind of finally away to figuring it out. It's challenging so you have to get back into that mindset of this is this is the process. The perseus is unclear and wind -i. How challenging was it for you in those early days? Say like social pressure. Right. 'cause you go from job that truly secure into the outside world. It's like, wow, you're making decent money. You have a great lifestyle now, you want to give that up and be a coach and at the beginning stages, like you know, there's a lot of people who although want the best for you question what you're doing because they just can't comprehend that. How difficult was it for you with those stages to kind of talk to your friends or talk with your family about what you were going to now do? Really difficult. And I think it's still a challenge, because I didn't really I like I said being a pilot since I was like sixteen seventeen. So I didn't really even know. That that carried a white to it. It just it just was my reality. And so, like, if you go to a potty, someone's his what do you, do you say pilot like oh, that's interesting. And then they started compensation and if you say, oh, I'm a coach. They go like a soccer coach or what sort of confusing conversation. Weird. Look, I get it. Yeah. It's a weird look. So that was one of the hottest things when I fist lift flying was like, oh, okay. I kinda hit this, this job that spoke for me in a way ED's. Now, I kind of have to justify what I took so that was really challenging. And then to your other point, about friends and family. They really want to put you in a box. Not in a bad way not a negative way. But maybe sometimes, but generally, they just want to they want things to stay the same. So they, they want to that. Don't want the relationship with you to change that they that want you to change. Yeah. They also don't want, you know, I was going after what I loved, and what I was passionate about. And then that I was very honest about not fully enjoying my job anymore. And a lot of my friends that were in that job that becomes very confronting. So the course so, you know, every reaction under the sun, but kind of understanding that. That's the thing, not yours. This is -ssarily. Yeah. That's, that's their own insecurities coming out when you're talking about what you're not passionate about they get defensive being like, would you meet? Yeah. And I think for me like I say joining that masterminds, and so getting around the highest most successful group of people in my industry that I could get to. And the surrounding them by the that was huge for me. That was huge who may. So literally going out and paying to buying a new community. Many huge difference I didn't feel like this one we had pilot that was becoming a life coach. I was a successful coach that used to be a pilot. I like the way you put that Nathan if you could go back in time and have the chance to sit down with twenty year old version of yourself and not change anything. But for yourself a piece of advice, or piece of guidance, I'm wondering for you. What that would be? You know, one of my biggest values as old intensity, and I'm gay it took me about ten years to come out of the calls. Upside, I came out when I was twenty two and so twenty is old. That was something I was really struggling with you was a deep insecurity about being gay. And I think just deepened security about who I was like a lot of. And. You know, I think if I could go back in and speak to him, I would just say. Come out feels into come out of the closer in, in whatever way that is the and the right people will come to you. Hundred percent. I love that. Nathan for people out there who want to reach out connect with you. Learn more about what you do. Where's the best place? They can go. Credit spatial sites you guys. So as tonight, Nathan c would dot com slash Cullen. You'd be able to find just a ten minute training talking about exactly what we talk about my mission now is to help a thousand people get into impactful businesses. And so the same as my Jimmy, what I've realized is I'm gonna help people transition out of the career. And then figure out exactly the type of mission based business they want to create and how to get some suit and t- around that creation process. So there's a free training that just takes through some of the elements that you need to consider to make that transition amazing everyone. That is Nathan seaward dot com forward slash Colin can also get the link in the show notes to make it super simple to visit that site. Now Nathan the way we end the show here on the daily grind is we're going to give you the floor and you have the opportunity today to share with our audience the thought of the day. So one thing or one thought that we can all go home with today. Chrysler, the thought, I'll leave you with is the hottest thing that we can do in life is the SOL's. So whatever encourage you to do is if you've listened to this, or you just, just take a few minutes after you listen to this and just get really honest with yourself. It doesn't mean you have to take any action do anything about it. But just take him to cheek in it'd be really honest with yourself. Honest about how you feeling honest with, with your happy in your job, or your career on us about your relationships and just allow yourself the gift of truce. Just first few minutes after the show, even if you do nothing about the honest with yourself for one minute today love that. And as you can see from this interview ever won six s is driven by passion, hunger today learning to be offensively. You everyone has to overcome obstacles. Everyone has a story start building yours today. Again, today, we the chance to speak with the amazing Nathan seaward Nathan, I wanna thank you so much for taking time out of your schedule and coming on the show here with us today. Please call us a I thank you've having of course, the pleasure is all ours everyone. If you enjoyed today's episode be sure your subscribe to the podcast, drop us a comment. Let us know what you liked also share this out with a friend until next time call him Morgan signing off, and always remember to keep on grinding.

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#936  Jesus is Our Judge (1 Corinthians 4:3)

Pray the Word with David Platt

04:17 min | 9 months ago

#936 Jesus is Our Judge (1 Corinthians 4:3)

"Pre the WORD WITH DAVID. Platt is AVI source from radical dot. Net prescriptions. Chapter four verse three but with me. It is a very small thing that I should be judged by you or by any human court in fact I do not even judge myself says a powerful little verse. In First Corinthians Chapter Four. That really goes on in the verses after this to elaborate on on judgment and how to think about judgment in the future particularly before. God but I love the way Paul puts this. He says listen. I'm not going to be judged by you or any human court. This is so good to know. Isn't it like I think about times? Where in my own life I have been criticized even for for something that I believe was right and I've been criticized for it. Spent a good reminder that moment that might critics are not my judge. No other human is my judge. No human court is going to judge. Meaning God is going to judge me. Obviously. There is reason for trembling at that thought. Apart from Jesus in Jesus have reason to be very glad that God is our judge and I love what Paul goes on to say he says in fact. I don't even Judge Myself I. How huge is that going back to thinking about? When I have received criticism I like start justifying myself and so trying to defend myself even if not publicly like internally just in my own thoughts to say why I'm right and why my critics are wrong or this or that. But that's where I remember. I'm not my judge either so just because I justify myself or I convince myself what I've done is is right. That's that's not what matters either but that's where the world would say okay just like self esteem as long as you are okay with what you did as long as you approve of what you did and you feel good about what you did like bosses. No I only even judge myself because on on the day of judgement salary me. Who's judging me? I looked to Jesus as my judge and so we don't look to others. We don't look to ourselves now regardless of whether or not. We're being criticized. I hope this an encouragement to you and really challenge to us all that. We don't live for others approval. We don't live even for our own approval. We live for the approval of one our judge and his name is Jesus so we pray help us God to keep our eyes fixed on you to have the right perspective. Help us not to get caught up in whether it's the criticism of others or desiring acclaim or applause from others or even just thinking about being consumed others think or thinking about being consumed what we think like help us to be consumed with to think all the time about what you think. You are judge. No Human Court Nathan not even ourselves so we pray God help us to live with a single minded focus on Jesus as our judge. Live to live to please you alone. May It be so today. Help us to live to please you alone above all in Jesus name we pray Amen.

Paul Platt dot Nathan
Deadly Valentine

Dateline NBC

1:26:49 hr | 10 months ago

Deadly Valentine

"Hbo's new series the outsider based on the bestselling novel by Stephen King starts with the seemingly open and shut investigation. But when the case takes a turn into the unexplainable season detective Ralph Anderson played by Ben Mendelsohn partners with an unorthodox investigator played by Cynthia Areso together. They reconsider everything they know to uncover the terrifying truth executive produced by Jason Bateman and adapted by Richard Price. The outsider airs. Sundays at nine PM on. Hbo She hadn't answered her phone call. She hadn't answered text messages. I guess the window panes. Broken the glasses on the ground a Valentine's Day that started with roses and did a different sheet of read. Everything stopped. That was just in shock. We knew that there was somebody out there doing something. She was a wife. A mother a missionary. Denise sounds like a saint but something had been happening behind closed doors. There's nothing more important to me than this relationship was with love. This was his Valentine's Day present to or hate one shot. What was the motive for Valentine's Day murder? We had a note that she had written. She was speaking from the grave and away. I mean that was powerful. It happened on the least likely day imaginable. A day devoted to love and affection Valentine's Day and it happened to the last people on Earth. You would expect a religious family dedicated to God and making the world a better place breaking going. On right now don't tell the garage doors via the backdoor. Somebody broke my world had just been shattered their perfect world broken by an act so evil tour of family apart the worst day of my life and put an entire town on edge. Be Extra cautious. Laki doors lock your windows. Pay attention strangers in your area. They devoted their lives to others. Who would ever want to hurt them? Just absolutely despicable act for a day that ended so tragically. It began in a happy way with flowers and expressions of love Nathan. Denise Luth old had met thirty years earlier back in the eighties when they were both students at a small Baptist School in Central Illinois. Even at that Young Age Nathan knew there was something to this sparkling little girl. I was in third grade and she was in fourth grade at the time and I doubt she even knew existed but even then I thought she was the cutest girl in the school. What was it that you liked about her? So much was the currently hair in the BOUNCY CURLS. Just the happy go. Lucky smile junior high the beginning to see her character and some kind of person she was that way it was in high school. Bet- Nathan and Denise got to know each other better though they didn't date as most teens do because they both came from. Religious families are parents. They really believe in dating so we were just good friends and I went to her church activities and she came to mind and saw other at school. And that's how it all started. She was my first girlfriend and girlfriend. Normal Rick Junior. Got To know Nathan and Denise well when his wife taught at their high school Nathan was a basketball player. Then denise a cheerleader. They were inseparable. They would just goof around with each other. You know just a loving in. Oh maybe puppy love fish way And it just grew into some special between the two of them and we knew they'd be together. What's more Nathan admired denise parents and was inspired by what he saw as a perfect marriage looked at denise mom at the time when I saw what she was as a woman as a wife mother and I saw the denise really favored her mother and so I said that's what I want for Denise Says Mom Diane Newton. The feeling was mutual. We'll see over all the time. Yes yeah he practically lived at her house. When Denise went off to college in Minnesota Nathan a year younger soon followed. To No one's surprise the couple got engaged a year later. Diane knew was coming. I wasn't surprised when he was first one that she dated and they ended up getting married. That was in July nineteen ninety-five. I was always very happy being a wife a mother so I was. I was happy for her that she had found someone to love and to share her life with before. We did. Our vows denise had Prepared a song talking about everything that she wanted was in me and that our marriage is gonna be the kind that she had always hoped for and dreamed for as little child and the wonderful after the young couple settled in their hometown of Peoria Illinois. Denise went to work at an insurance company while Nathan started a career in sales but he could shake a higher calling for several years he dreamed of becoming a Baptist missionary in one thousand nine hundred eighty eight. He finally seized the opportunity when another young couple at their church began their own missionary work in Lithuania and so approached the felon and said you know. What would you think about denise and I coming in helping you guys is? That'd be great? They moved in with us for six months. Sold their possessions Tried to save up money. We didn't know any Lithuanian. At the time we didn't know the language we were studying it trying our best but it was definitely a shock. They returned home after a year and soon welcomed a son. Seth and a daughter Julia in two thousand and two family went back to Lithuania which became their second home on and off for the next eight years. That's a big undertaking to right. I think it was very hard for denise to leave her family to leave everything she'd known and to go over to a strange country with a toddler. Anna and a baby was a traumatic experience for her. I think this is because really Nathan wanted to do it right. She was supporting him. It was wasn't really her calling. I mean she was. She was basically being a wife and a mother but denise also became very devoted to the church there denise was very musical and she played the piano for the children and taught them songs and taught the little girls especially Bible stories. They grew particularly close to some of the children and their families. We had helped Women who had been in abusive relationships we had brought several Lithuanians to United States over the years for cultural reasons for musical purposes for sports their generosity extended to a young Lithuanian. They'd gotten to know well. I know Aa who eventually came to the. Us As a college student she even lived with them for a while. In Peoria Nathan has a very big heart for people he just loves to help people out and just wants to do the Lord's work by the fall of two thousand ten Nathan Denise. Were living back in the states. By then they had a third child Janelle their days were filled with shuttling kids to school and Daycare and raising funds for their next overseas mission. Life with three young kids was busy hectic normal but then came Valentine's Day two thousand thirteen when Nathan pulled into their driveway mid afternoon and discovered something terribly wrong. I can see that the window payments broken the glasses on the ground at that point I begin to put things together and someone had broken into the home and then that point I called the police call nine one one. Where's the emergency brake? A daring burglary in the middle of the day. That would rob this family of everything. There'd be no more cards candy or flowers. This Valentine's Day no one can find a niece. Shed mansard her phone call. She hadn't answered text messages at what police do find is terrifying. Everything stopped looking at my daughter. My world just been shattered and I have to tell her at some point after many years of working overseas as missionaries the Luth old family had returned to Peoria Illinois Denise Nathan and their three Kids Seth Twelve Julia ten engine l four. Were living with Denise Parents Nathan says it felt good to be home we had tremendous friends and family here in the states. And that's always what we miss. The most being back in the states also gave Nathan an opportunity to travel to churches where he reported on his Indonesia's missionary work and raise more funds so they could soon return to Lithuania in the US. They also celebrate holidays American style as they did on Valentine's Day two thousand thirteen as tradition on holidays whether it's Easter Christmas or birthdays or Valentine's for the children we started off right off the bat first thing in the morning and so the children had their Valentine sacks that the Nissan prepared sitting there on the table for them and for his wife my gift to her with roses in the car that I bought the night before and had placed on the table after the early morning celebration. The family was back to their usual routine taking the kids to school. Shopping running errands. Denise parents were at work but that day something happened. That was completely out of character for Denise. She failed to pick up Julia from school. My parents called me. You want us to pick her up and I saw the nation be there any minute. She must have been late. Turns out no one had been able to reach denise for awhile including Nathan. She hadn't answered her phone call. She unanswered text messages. I said Just wait a few more minutes. Let me get John Daycare. And then I'll let you know and I finally got on a daycare. They said she still hasn't come. She hasn't called. I said well I'm right by the House. I run by the House and see if she's there and as soon as I got pulled into the driveway. The garage door was open. It's not very there's no car in the garage but the garage door is open but then as I got about halfway into the garage I can see that the windowpane was broken the glasses on the ground at that point. I begin to understand that someone had broken into the home. Did you fear that the person could still be in the house? I need with his young daughter in the car. Nathan backed into the neighbor's driveway across the street so he could watch the house as he called nine one one problem We had a break in going on right now. I don't know I last from the back door was somebody on the house yet to Nathan waited with his daughter at the neighbor's house repeatedly calling family members to see if anyone had heard from denise then the police arrived detective Jason Lee and Sean Curry were among the first on the scene. By time we guy here officer for starting to Rove everything off securing the inside the house. They didn't find an intruder. Instead a found something far worse while searching the house they are discovered a female down that was obviously deceased and the house. Thirty nine year old Denise Luther old lying in a pool of blood had barely made it inside the house. Her Code was still on the other side of the doors where we found her land down just right in the front door here. They quickly determine she had been killed by a single gunshot to the head. She didn't even have time to take her coat off her gloves. Anything so she entered. That door met showers media and the weapon appear to be a forty caliber handgun. But no sign of the gun. Did it seem like denise possibly startled a burglar get when we got there looked like? She interrupted a burglary that she came home. The houseman ransacked like somebody broke in through the back door. Start going through the house and then maybe startled the burglar when she came in through the front door while investigators combed the crime scene. Nathan anxiously watched the police activity from the House across the street. How did they tell you what they had found? The police were not the first people to tell me unfortunately I found out about it from my father. I was calling my dad and dad said well. I'm on my way I just heard on the radio. The local news media just put it on the radio that at your house. Somebody was shot. Nathan realized had to have been denise when you came to that realization. Going through your mind. Everything stopped looking at my four year. Old Daughter who is the image of her mother curly hair in the bouncy step and and I just kept looking at my daughter. I wanted to hug her. I wanted to I wanted just let out to all the pain associated with no there. She was standing style staring at me. My world had just been shattered and I have to tell her at some point. Denise says mom had no idea what happened but she rushed home when Nathan told her. There'd been a break in and drove up there and the roads were all black. Is that a sick feeling when you say all those police and you know it. Yeah I'm thinking well I didn't know what to think. I tried to run up there and to go into the house and they were like no. You can't go in and I'm like well I just WanNa just WanNa know what happened to my daughter. She in there where she eventually took me down town and then one of the policemen came in and told me that she had been shot. The were stay of my life now. She had to tell her husband. Dennis's father fell apart and cried and I guess it's every parent's worst nightmare to have child taken from them as Denise family really from their unimaginable. Loss this quiet central Illinois community was just starting to grapple with the fallout of a murder on Valentine's Day. Did you feel like we have mystery on our hands? We got to solve this. Yeah we knew we had something bad and we knew that it was going to take a lot of work to to the point. Where Renew Donna? A possible clue Nathan. Remember seeing a suspicious car near his house not long before the murder. This is Kinda weird phone in the driveway. I mainly go through into the into the front door and the outside lights on card leaves was the killer in that car. It was hard to believe Denise Luth old mother of three young children have been found shot to death in her home in Peoria Illinois. The LUTH old friend normal. Rick couldn't comprehend the news who could do something like this to a a great young woman family of three children and a great husband. Nathan said when he lost a niece he lost his foundation. My wife my best friend from Third Grade. The mother of the three most important children in the world to me. How do I function now without her with the House now? A Crime Scene Nathan went with detectives to the police station where they asked him. If he could think of any reason his family would be targeted. Do you have any personal property by? Does your wife was there anything of extreme value. You else in your own particular. I've had two washes hundred. Dr Wash doesn't own. No a laptop digital camera and jewellery had been stolen to guns also been taken including a forty caliber glock. The same caliber used to kill denise had the intruder used that weapon to shoot her. If you buy one breaking. I've been trying to ask the same question since they first four driveway. Nathan gave detectives Aclu though when he said he remembered seeing a suspicious car in the neighborhood late at night a couple of weeks before the murder Dr driving without the hits on our was they were on the road when they turn turn them off and you know this is kind of weird pulled in the driveway. I really go through into the into the front door and put the outside lights on card leaves then a few days before the murder. He said it happened again similar situation but this time. The neighbors vaguely that time Nathan called police and spoke with an officer said they probably were people. That were autists. His phrase was casing the Neighborhood People in Peoria Illinois were spooked could a brazen burglar willing to kill beyond the loose it caused loss stressing neighborhoods. I mean Dave the local school down the street. They locked down that day. This stuff doesn't happen in this if you come down here during the day. The kids are out ride their bikes in the side. Streets people in the park walking around snow like A high crime area where there's gunshots all the time things like that so you know it was enough to scare everybody. It was a big story in town. Be Extra cautious. Lock your doors. Lock your windows. Pay attention strangers in your area. What was the mood of the neighborhood? It was very eerie Bo. Eboni reporter for NBC W. E. in Peoria. A lot of people in the community really wanted to know what happened. I mean they're they're going to sleep every night. Not really sure who killed their neighbor. One neighbor says with two small kids at home. She is feeling panicked and even a little paranoid. Tips started coming in right away. Diane parish who lives just a few houses down from Nathan and Denise remembered seeing a strange man on her street right around the time of the murder so describe the man you saw walking along this road. He had a black hoodie sweatshirt on with the hood pulled up and his hands were in the pocket and I will never forget the look on that man space. What was so odd about the look on his face. He was very agitated. I knew immediately. Something was wrong with him. Neighbors were anxious and detectives were puzzled. Dennis's neighborhood was normally very quiet. Not the type of place. You'd expect a burglary even if she had accidentally stumbled upon an intruder how had turned so vicious so quickly. Why would somebody WANNA coming to this particular house? It's not typical as far as a burglary results in a murder. Maybe it wasn't a burglary at all. If it wasn't a burglary what was it was. Nathan's life also endanger. Nathan's parents told me that Nathan and three children had been moved to safe house just to protect them. It looked like a burglary. Gone Bad Denise Luth old mother and missionary brutally shot and killed in her parents home. Where she and her family had been living. Typical scenario robberies happening in Peoria. This one just happens to be a lot worse. It's not typical as far as A burglary that results in a murder. That doesn't happen very often. This was an odd one. Detectives needed to know more about Denise and began questioning her family including Nathan her husband of seventeen years. You talking to us. In cooperating with us is the is the best information that we can get. We WanNa talk to the people closest to her. I try to figure out what makes take worse. What's a routine like? Did you start to think that someone may have targeted denise? Well you know we did no. I mean You know Nathan. He's going to be our best. What's you know you're living with this lady been married for a long time? You know her routine. Did you think maybe someone had a reason to be in that house outside of just a random burglary? We didn't know we didn't know but we needed to lock down at that point. Initially we just wouldn't make sure we locked out what she planned on doing that day and they started at the very beginning she woke up about six forty. Five okay. Shaving were the kids already up. She's six forty five Nathan told police. He took the two older children to school and went on a series of errands that day including going to a day SPA to buy gift certificate for Denise Mussa massage. Police learned denise spent the morning at home with four year old anelle until she drove her to daycare just afternoon. Nathan said Denise had her own list of things to do that day. She didn't coaching them all and she has another run and try and get video of term. Maybe we'll see something we don't know you know what I mean. That's why we gotta figure out where she was at. Petco try to place the last time we can see her narrow window down its TV. This way we appreciate you cooperate and living by mid afternoon when denise should have been done shopping and on our way to pick Julia Nathan. Said he tried reaching her but couldn't at. I wasn't concerned so called. She didn't answer him. No big deal. She driving so soon text message. We'll get there but he became worried once he got home and saw. Denisa car wasn't in the driveway and it looked like the house had been broken into back. She's not into my phone call. She's not answered. My Mom's phone calls. She didn't go to the school. She didn't call where she added. She's lead if she broke down the fat tire she would've called resentful. I will always hollered one options in my head detective than asked Nathan the uncomfortable questions. They ask anyone whose spouse has been. Murdered personal flushing and take no fence. We have to cover every base. Anytime has your wife ever done anything behind your back. Have you had any issues Any boyfriends anything like that. Okay what about you? Did he describe a good marriage? I'm he described Denise the backbone of family for wasn't for her he will be able to do his work that she does everything for the kids. She's the main one the hold it over again. She did everything that made the kids. Life Span Denise. Sounds like a saint. She probably was everyone. We talked to had nothing but good things to say about her. Must have really perked your attention that this woman is considered to be this amazing mom and does this religious work. And why would she have any enemies? I mean nothing was coming to the forefront. Nathan said. He was doing his best to hold it together so we can help them catch the killer but he was anxious to be with his children. We appreciate it. Walk Ration- and You know as much information than we can get better. That's GonNa help us in Kids Nice. I can't leave. Nathan finally did leave the police station late that night. Hours after his wife had been killed he went to his sister's home whereas children. We're sound asleep. I was exhausted. I was emotionally spent. I spent the next several hours with my mother and my sister. At some point I fell asleep. My sister just trying to comfort me the next day Nathan said. He was struggling with the fact that his wife was gone and now had to explain that to his kids. How did you tell the children that their mother had been killed? Mom went home to be with God. We know that she loves us. We know that we loved her. At that point I reached out for them and we just hugged quiet. My tears soak their faces and their tears. Soak my face and then we prayed and we thank God for the most wonderful mother and wife ever been on this earth later. Nathan took the children and went to stay at a church mission house in a nearby town. Nathan's parents told me that Nathan and three children had been moved to a safe house Just to protect them because they didn't know if they were being targeted for anything. His friend norm often brought them home. Cooked meals. Nathan was very quiet almost in a state of shock. Maybe I noticed him when him and I were in the living room alone together. And it was just complete silence. It felt a little awkward but I just see him just staring into space. Almost in the meantime denise parents made the difficult choice to return to their home the scene of the crime and a few days later they asked Nathan and the kids to come over to be with family. How was he with you the first time you saw him? After Denise was killed he seemed very emotional he originally said that he didn't WanNa come back in the House that the kids were afraid to come in. It was a lot to take in. Denise was dead. Three young children were without a mother and Nathan said he'd lost the love of his life. Detectives worked around the clock to solve the crime and as they did they began to get the idea that not everything was as it seemed. This is strange. Denisa just gotten home when she was killed. So why was her car someplace else? This is the propaganda. She Been Shot House. I need to figure out how that car got wraps in the weeks. After niece's death Nathan and his children stayed at a church mission house when his friend norm visited he said Nathan seemed quiet STOIC. I've never seen Nathan emotional state as far as crying or in panic or anything like that. I just took it as he was just really stressed out. And what's happening to my family right now. Why did this happen as Denise? His parents were wondering the same thing. They also begin to ask other questions and we kept kind of going over the robbery. Like how it would've happened and just it didn't really make sense. What was suspicious about what was taken? I worked at a store that sold high Def. Tv's and we had a lot of small ones that they could just picked up taking away. You Know Electronics Blu ray players. None of those things were touched and only had probably three rings that were of any value but those three rings were taken. Why would a burglar know that those were the only three that were valuable? Some things seemed off to police as well. The more we start looking at the house it just didn't seem like a a a real burglary. There was a junk drawer. That was perfectly laying on the floor. Why would a burger even go through a junk drawer with pans thing? Threats as irs and then lay it they also analyze things. Nathan had told them during his interview at the police station the night of the murder like the fact that he owned three guns shot. Man You know what twelve twenty two silver with Pearl little tremor Glock model not forty. There were a lot of things about Nathan's guns that didn't add up for police starting with the fact that he happened to own the same type of gun used in denise murder. How did he explain that he could? He just think he was trying to the fact that the burglar must have Guy Muslim to it and taking it. Yeah Nathan also told police. He kept that gun in a plastic case. You got it locked. Harwood somebody would you need like a chrome ours something but there was no broken case at the house at said a lot the detectives and then I ask them why in the box. He didn't know but Tried to insinuate. Burr took it well earlier. Snack taken busted lock box with him. After he kills someone th- they're going to leave Nathan told them he'd last fired that gun in Oklahoma to go but you know nothing here lately and there was something else troubling police even though denise had been killed in her home her car was found in a nearby park. The police figured whoever drove it. There must have been involved in denise murder this problem. I guess she sheepish Okay I need to figure out how that car gets wrapped into a key to. That car was found tangled. Indonesia's hair under her head so clearly. That key wasn't used to move the car. There had to be another one. I'm just trying. How many sets keyser out there? Trying to find a set of keys. I know. There's one Siddiqui's whenever I've borrowed Marlon the Reverend Carter go get something fixed on will change to whatnot. I just ask you for the keys. And she gives me the keys or he says linked. None of that made any sense to the detectives. There had to be a second key somewhere visible in the house in order for an intruder to easily find it and drive the car to the park. There was no other way. They said say denise interrupted burglary. Any shooter that Guy's getting the hell out of town he he's not. GonNa wait to try and find a spare set of keys in the house. He's leaving questions about Denise car led to questions about Nathan's car and something. He said caught the detectives attention vehicle specifically ever at rods and bartender. Medical was inverted. I guess for this purpose more narrowly but would have been before before. I came back to the house. What was it down there for? I pulled and think of home call so it turns out on the day of the murder. Nathan was at the same park where denise his car was later found and that's when one of the detectives got frustrated with. Nathan's whole story on confronted him. Snow incidence that were missing four caliber. Glock Handgun and. There's evidence that leads us to believe that your wife would probably show Callahan okay. And then furthermore to have her car down the street the park right where you fail to tell us that you were there prior to going home earlier. That day was a short. But the thing is we're talking about things that that once you start piecing together. We're trying to figure things out. I understand okay so if you're at the park the exact same park. Your wife's car was it. I need to figure out how wise car out there. I don't have the answer. You'll have a key grit. It wasn't just that Nathan stopped to take a short phone call. It was who was on the other end of the line that Pique their interest and he said he'd received a phone call from a Lithuanian exchange. Dude that's how she came on your radar. She was twenty year old on Adobe Tae the young exchange student who had been close to the family for years she babysat for them in Lithuania and they were sponsoring her as a student in the US. Just what was that? Call about? And it just kind of snowballed from there. We figured we had to go up and track her down. A missionary's unusually close relationship with a young exchange student. Did you outright ask where you having a sexual relationship with Nathan police found unease? Luther called thirty nine year old mother of three shot to death in her home. At first it looked like a possible burglary gone bad that after questioning her husband's Nathan and combing the crime scene detective started to see things differently. Thanks for Nadan up. We're not accountants but we know when it doesn't add up. Police now wanted to look more closely at the Lithuanian student. Nathan had spoken to on the phone. The day of the murder in denise had met her on their first missionary trip in nineteen ninety eight. There was a church that was there that was already established and that church really took us in and and did their best to communicate with. Us and helped us out and there was a particular Women in the Church we worked with. That was IRA's mother. I kn- ADOBE. Light was just a child at the time and as she grew up her relationship with the family grew as well teenager. It was very clear that she had given her life to the Lord and wanted to serve him. She was always the one volunteering Helping at Church right alongside of her mother and she was very gifted in music. And then as we started branching out in the ministry. I was the one that took care of the music. When she was sixteen she became a babysitter. For Nathan Indonesia's three children was the one that was always helping with children at Church and it was just natural for Denise to want to hire her and we just trusted her one hundred percent with them and That's how she came to be a part of our family and then you ended up bringing her over to America we sponsors here in the US. She came here for education. Her desire from the very beginning was to go back to help her own country and the churches there How to use music for lower that sponsorship started in the fall of two thousand ten when I know came to the US to study at a Christian College in Florida where Nathan would occasionally visit her? What to Denise think about that? I asked her more than one time. Aren't you tell us that he's traveling around with this young girl and she was like no? She wasn't jealous at all. This is a girl that they'd want to help exactly and and she. She trusted Nathan. During school. Vacations I know would stay in Peoria with the whole family. She was really good with the kids. She seemed like she was a sweet girl. And if your daughter liked her. She was a friend of our daughters and son-in-law's. I mean we accepted her to our home then. In December two thousand eleven I know left that Florida school she was so close with Duluth old family. She moved in with Nathan Denise Anisa's parents while she attended a community college in Peoria. There wasn't the first time we've done that so. I was one of many that we had worked with so it was very natural. They had sponsored other Lithuanian students before to come here so it didn't really seem strange to us that that's what they were doing. They were really making a difference in this young girl's life. Yes they were giving her a chance to come here and get a college education here. Six months before Dennis's death Aina had transferred to a Christian College in Chicago. One hundred sixty miles from Peoria. So police drove there to talk to her. While we first started the interview it was disallowed background information and it was We were coming across Texas. We're concerned for denise lived with them for X. Mining Years you've known the family and she was fine as we started the rampant questioning. Get more direct about her. Relationship with Nathan is then all of a sudden perfectly. Speaking English girl starts saying I have I. I don't understand that or I'm not going to answer that question. And then it turned into a more of a just a cold stare and no emotion whatsoever. You describe it almost like a staring contest. We throughout their crime scene pictures of the knees lane did autopsy pictures to get a reaction and she had no emotion and I I called her out on it. I said these people took you into your home brought you back from Lithuania. You lived with that. Don't bother you and she just looked at me stone cold and said I cried enough over the weekend but then detectives aster about something. They learned as they trace. Nathan's movements the day of the murder. Remember one of the places he said he visited. Was This Day spot where he bought a Valentine's Day gift certificate for Denise but when Detective Stop there they discovered that Nathan had been bringing another woman to the SPA and it was none other than I know. It had happened so often the owner said. She thought they were a couple. He's taking this woman in her early. Twenty s an exchange student to the SPA massages and to get her waxed up. My stuff will be in the front yard if my wife found out. That House backs a twenty year old and it just didn't make no sense and they and I kept on her about explain it and then I even asked her. What exactly is he waxing up. And She just would glare. I ain't answered them. They also asked her about the bill. Which Nathan paid. She framed it up. As IT'S HIS MONEY. Instances money too. So if he's spending the money she should be all right with it. Did you outright ask her? Where you having a sexual relationship with Nathan? And what was her response? She she denied it then. I mentioned something that sparked their curiosity. She had studied music her whole life and had gone to college in Florida to play the piano but she told detectives she'd left the school because of problems with their hands. So I think it was officially titled Like Academic Withdrawal. Or something so they subpoenaed highness school records. Day records we got said it. Her dismissal had some stuff to do with inappropriate relationships with our sponsor including staying off campus overnight. Were just them to that. Sponsor of course was Nathan. Police learn more about their relationship when they pulled Nathan and his phone records. What did you find on her phone? Just they communicated a lot more than Nathan lead on. It didn't look like a typical sponsor sponsor relationship. There are multiple Texan calls every day. She's denying sexual relationship with the text messages suggesting otherwise there was one mention. I think she was done at the gym and he asked her if she was wet. I didn't find it appropriate for the relationship. They relieving on the biggest thing was just the sheer volume of contact that they had. You're saying you're just checking on her and making sure she's doing good in school. It was just ahead to appear dating type relationship more more questions. Four and about Nathan my husband while he's a missionary he wouldn't kill anybody. Mental health is so so important. I know it can be tough to talk about. But we're not doing anyone any favors by keeping the stigma alive. That's why I feel so strongly about therapy and the work that better help is doing. It's not a crisis line. It's not self help. It's professional counseling done securely online better helpful. Assess your needs and match you with your licensed professional therapist. You can start communicating with them in under twenty four hours and the service is available worldwide. You'll get timely and thoughtful responses plus you can schedule weekly video or phone sessions. It's more affordable than traditional off line. Counseling and financial aid is available. If you need it visit better help dot com slash de L. NBC. That's better help. H. E. L. P. dot com slash de L. NBC and joined the over seven hundred thousand people taking charge of their mental health with the help of an experienced professional as a listener of the show. You get ten percent off your first month by going to better help. Dot Com Slash de L. NBC. Hey Guys Willie geist here. This week on the Sunday. Sit down. Podcast I get together with Golden Globe winning actor Ewan McGregor to talk about a prolific career. That includes his latest role in the Superhero Film. Birds of prey get that conversation now for free. Wherever you download your podcasts. Denise Luther Been Killed by an intruder heart of a burglary gone wrong or had someone close to her been involved. Denise parents believe their daughter had been killed by a stranger until their minister came to visit one day. Ask US well. Do you have any suspicions that your son in law was about and we both answered no but as soon as I said. No I'm like well wait a minute. You know. Then of course started having suspicions. My husband was kind of shocked that because he just thought while he's in missionary he wouldn't kill anybody but investigators weren't so sure they began to take a hard look at Nathan's whereabouts that day. They collected surveillance video from the places. He said he'd been and while he was at those places. Chase Bank starbucks the day spa a car wash. There was a problem. We were able to account for him up to about eleven thirty in the morning and then there was a gap between him leaving starbucks around eleven thirty and then he shows backup but same starbucks around twelve forty five PM in between. Mary could not account for him anywhere. That gap was crucial because it was during that timeframe that police believed the murder happened. The detective even traced a route. They thought Nathan might have taken that day from the starbucks to the park. A quick walk to his house then back to the starbucks to see if he could have done it in time. Six minutes fifty five seconds not only possible. They said but probable more likely they figured than a stranger breaking into the House during the roughly twenty minutes. Denise was out it's unconceivable to thank. Somebody breaks into the House. Exact same time. Rans rooms is through. The House finds a Glock prised. Open loads it up hides behind the door to execute her. It just can't happen something else. That didn't make sense. They said was that denise is car was not in her driveway. After the murder they found her silver four here in this nearby Park Nathan had told police he only knew of one key. The key that was found at the crime scene but now police had a second key that they found in this trash can in the park. They believe Nathan was lying to them and that he had used that key to move the car. Another suspicious finding a black hooded sweatshirt on the floor of Nathan Indonesia's bedroom investigators said it seemed to match the one. A strange man was seen wearing in the neighborhood. That day dust at somebody was in hurry. Took it off through doubt but there was something else. That was even more troubling. Police had ordered an extensive analysis of Nathan's laptop and a couple of weeks. After the murder they received a report. The computer expert explain that is browser was set to delete anything. He looked up but as we found out. Just because you delete something doesn't mean it's gone and what they found floored them in it. Range from hottest silence a forty caliber handgun clock specifically which is a gun. He owns he owns and she was shot with how to silence. That um how to overdose somebody on insulin after rounding bad touch acution in the bathtub. Things like this. This goes back several months before the murderously. He's potentially thinking of all these different ways to kill his wife. Well you know. I think I honestly think he planned it out. Did you straight up ask him? Did you have anything to do with your wife's death and tonight you said no not only did. He deny killing his wife. Nathan told us there was a perfectly reasonable explanation for all those Internet searches police uncovered electrocution in the bathtub. How to silence a gun? We had started a foundation In overseas called hope for tomorrow to combat suicide and we were doing research and looking at blog sites where young people were. Desperate people were giving information about what they were thinking. Maybe you want still. It was obvious from Nathan's interview video. That detectives had questions about his story. Early on I. I would love to think that you're a god fearing man and you would never do that. But but you preconceived idea no no no I. Don't I know trust me? I do not have a preconceived idea but when I'm painting the picture and I'm trying to put the pieces together. Okay as a homicide investigator I have to either rule you in a row you out and you want to rule me and based upon. No no no no no no. I'd rather rule you also I want. I don't delay based on be rude you. I want to roll Yup. I hope you didn't do it. Between learning about China and all the evidence they collected the lease had enough to arrest Nathan. Three weeks after denise had been killed they pulled her husband over he just dropped his kids off at school. The handcuff me. They put me in their car. And that point. I didn't know where we're going and finally I asked him. I said where are we? Going? What's going on? We're taking you to jail for the murder of your wife. Seem scare key seems surprised disbelief that he's been arrested. It was a shock. Nathan Luth old missionary and father of three. A native son of Peoria was now on his way to jail to await trial for the murder of his wife. His Friend Normal. Rick who had known the couple for decades was stunned. There's no doubt in my mind that Nathan was arrested. They needed somebody in jail. There's no way that I could ever fathom Nathan doing this to his wife. Hard to imagine anyone doing something this evil they. It's true. This was his Valentine's Day present to China and the AD is despicable. Three weeks after Denise luth old was shot to death. Her husband Nathan was arrested for her murder at first denise. His mother couldn't quite grasp it. He was part of our family for seventeen years and he was like a son to us and to think that he could actually just shooter in the head and this is a man who devoted his life to being a good person. Exactly but by the time Nathan went on trial she had changed her mind. He had been leading a double. Life was assist the bedroom. That wouldn't end right. It just kept going on and on and on and this just won't end until exactly as county courthouse. The trial was big news in town. After all the defendant was a missionary accused of killing his wife in their home in an upscale neighborhood. Things like that just don't happen in Peoria Nathan pleaded not guilty. He insisted he would have never done anything to harm his beloved wife. Every time there was a difficulty in life the first person I would talk to. We'll be denise and there were several times in the first few days after her death trying to figure what to do with the children next. I wanted to just grab the phone call her. She was my support but denise was not there to support Nathan because the state argued. He killed her. You'll have I in pation. Da Gunshot residue motive and the whole point to one person. We sit right across from you. Nathan's trial began on July fourteenth. Exactly seventeen months after the murder reporter Bo. Ebeneezer covered the trial for. Nbc's W. E. K-tvhe in Peoria. Where a lot of people anxious for this trial to start. I think a lot of people are anxious especially the family The family wanted to find out what really happened. What happened said prosecutors. Jody who said Jerry Brady was a Cold Blooded Execution Ladies and gentlemen burgers commit burglaries killers execute in style consistent with what the defendant did hiding that cubicle to kill her the moment she walked through the door. The state's theory Nathan. Put his plan into action when Denise left the House to take their daughter to daycare I. He drove his car to the park down. The street parked his car in Robinson Park somewhere. Close to Twelve fifteen to twelve twenty walked up to the House went into the house The burglary probably was already staged. If not he he want ahead and then he knew that denise would becoming back stood in the doorway and as soon as the door opened denise tried to take her coat off and he shot in the back of the head. Nathan then drove Denise Carta that same park prosecutors said and hop back in his own car and drove to starbucks arriving at twelve forty five forty five to twelve fifty five minutes long but long enough beyond that camera and long enough. They said for Nathan to wash his hands to get the gunshot residue off then leave to start his afternoon errands. Before picking up Janelle from daycare about three o'clock. The defendant returns home. Wants you to believe that he sees the door open and glass. That's the extent of his knowledge but with that he calls. The police knew full. Well what when he called the police what they're gonNA find from our perspective. That's what makes this case so disturbing the cold calculated manner in which he did this one of the first officers to testify for the state described the scene at the house. Just after Nathan called nine one one that day I observed some kitchen cabinets open and some kitchen drawers on the floor in my experiences. A police officer and investigator WANNA burglary occurs. The kitchen is not a commonplace that a burglar would look for items and a Burghley also items are scattered about drawers dumped on the floor. I felt that this was not an ordinary burglary and I expressed that to my partner. Well he found the crime scene odd for a burglary. It was Nathan's behavior that struck the officer. Even more describes demeanor is. I'm speaking to him. The he never showed any sort of emotion or asked any questions of me as to what was going on prosecutors said Nathan also showed no emotion during his police interview even when a detective told him. Denise was dead. You can't tell me things about her Fulton. You can't do things about her. She's dead. He told that prosecutors played the interview for the jurors hoping they would see what they saw when the police. I gave us the case. I watched his video tape statement. Five minutes into it. I knew he did it. I knew he was guilty. His demeanor his attitude. He tried to take over the conversation. Not a single tear was shed. They presented evidence that the bullet casings found at the scene was from a glock. Forty the kind of gun Nathan owned the only firearm that could generate those marks would be glock and are you able to say that within a reasonable degree of scientific certainty. Yes but police never did find the murder weapon. Did you worry that you weren't able to find the gun was that a factor Neil's concern? I think anytime in a murder case when you don't have the handgun or the weapon. Whatever it was. It's an uphill battle because that's what the jury wants. They want the smoking gun and we didn't have it still prosecutors. Thought they had more than enough evidence to prove their case. Remember Diane Parish. Who said she saw a man in a black hooded sweatshirt? Walking towards Denise House on the day of the murder she was the closest thing. Police had to an eyewitness. The whole thing struck me as wrong. I thought I told my husband a slowdown. I wanted to get a good look at him and I was worried that he saw US pulling out of our driveway and if he knew we were gone he'd rob us. She didn't recognize the man that day but later when she looked at a police photo lineup she quickly pointed to this man and it turned out to be. Nathan Luther called. Did you think it was possible when you're looking at this photo lineup? Maybe seen Nathan in the neighborhood and sub consciously. You were choosing that photo because you'd already seen him before now. Why were you so sure? Because the look on his face I knew I didn't make a mistake and I was very careful when I looked at the photos so I would not make a mistake. When she testified you could hear pen drop in that courtroom I mean everybody was glued to her testimony. I don't think there is a person in that courtroom that disbelieved what she was saying prosecutors said it must have been Nathan. The neighbor saw that day because police found a black hooded sweatshirt on his bedroom floor. What's more an expert? Testified at had gunshot residue on the right cough Nathan so that he had been at the gun. Range is that feasible that if he was a shooting off his gun. There'd be residue what's important about that too is. He said that it was in Oklahoma two weeks prior. There's no way there would have been gunshot residue on that sweatshirt. Still on the stand another neighbor. Who did not want to be videotaped testified? She heard a gunshot that day. Between Twelve thirty and twelve forty in the timeframe detectives thought. Denise was killed. Prosecutors said that gave Nathan the opportunity to kill Denise now they had to explain why he did it so they called this man to the stand who said he could answer that precise question because Nathan told him everything you say your name. David Smith David Smith was a fellow inmate of Nathan's at the county jail. He said Nathan told him. He researched ways to kill denise on his laptop. He talks about how he was planning to kill his wife Denise I. He told me that he was thinking about some poisoning. Would some type were incident of potassium? Something like that. According to the inmate Nathan said he ran a lot of errands on the day of the murder to create an alibi and he told me that he had presented some gifts some Valentine's Day gifts and stuff to his wife and so did everything look fine. How important was David Smith that jailhouse snitch? David Smith said that Nathan was worried that a lady might have seen him while he was walking. Obviously nobody knows that. Except Nathan and it's consistent with our evidence. What's more the inmate also testified? Why Nathan wanted denise out of his life will. He said that you said that she was overbearing. And that he had got to the point where he had wanted to move on with his life and he had met someone else and stuff like that. Did he tell you the name of that? Someone else somebody some student name and online or something like that but it was what the inmate told prosecutors about the timing of the murder that they found particularly chilling. Smith testified that Nathan told him he planned the murder specifically for Valentine's Day. It was supposed to be some type of present to To the I think you referred to as Anna and there it was Nathan's motive. Prosecutors said he killed his wife so he could be with his true love I. This was his Valentine's Day present to China And that that is despicable. I know who prosecutors said was Nathan's motive for the murder was about to take the stand the star witness at the biggest trial in town. Please state your name. And Nathan's note to China. There's nothing more important to me than you in this relationship. And not him from the woman he's accused of murdering she was speaking from the grave and away absolutely and that note was powerful Nathan luth old was on trial for murdering his wife on Valentine's Day. Two thousand thirteen a scenario impossible to have predicted for a man devoted to God who appeared to have been happily married to his high school sweetheart for seventeen years. Make him commit such a crime. The state argued. He was in love with another woman promoted. This Real Valentine twenty year old Lithuanian sponsor student. I double light day his motive for murder. I think it was a big bombshell testified in both English and in Lithuanian through a translator Nathan. Luth hold visited you in hotels off campus on at least five occasions correct cut them. I remember how many times during those visits you went to a hotel with Nathan and just the two of you were present. Part of the time cracked this case than massacre Tabun beer media. I'm not sure every time we were at the hotel we were together. Did you spend the night with Mr Luther called? I was called as a witness for the prosecution which granted her immunity to encourage her to talk but her testimony made it clear. She was not eager to help the state when Mr lose hold visited you in Chicago in two thousand twelve did he by your presence. Your close not cut revenue despite having studied in the states for four years seemed incapable of understanding English at times which frustrated the prosecutors. And in fact you are proficient in both written and spoken. English. Isn't that correct. Yes still the prosecution. Thought she was an important witness. I think it was significant for the jury to see Aina. We could get in the text messages we can get in the e mails. We could get in the phone calls. Jerry is going to hear all that. The state showed the jury tax between Nathan and I know from the of the murder. They started at seven thirty six. Am with mutual hollows at eight thirty seven. Am Nathan texted. I know I know there is a lot to do today. I pray that there is enough time to do. Everything have good lectures and meeting. Take care of yourself then. After Nathan arrived home mid afternoon I texted him and he replied. I can't now police checked. It looks like the house was robbed. I never responded interesting followed by a Smiley face. You would respond with all my what happened concern for the family and I suspect based on that response that in all likelihood she had some knowledge to what was maybe going to take place. Prosecutors accused Nathan of coaching Aina during jailhouse phone calls on how to cover up their relationship. Those calls were in Lithuanian for the trial. English translations of what Nathan said were read aloud. I am your spiritual adviser or your clergy here in America because there is nobody else who speaks Lithuanian. This may be important in the future because just as all your communication with the attorneys private communication with your clergy as also private but prosecutors said there was no covering up ladders. Nathan had sent Aina including this one read by an interpreter during deposition. I love you because you understand me better than anybody else because I am a better person with you next to me. My life hasn't deeper meaning and purpose. Because you are my world and my everything and that will never change with words like that. Prosecutors didn't believe China's denials of an affair with Nathan. They made her read aloud. Another refuse of note that Nathan Center just a month before the murder and let you down and I'm sorry. I'm not going to make excuses. That would not be fair to you. You deserve someone who respects you was their relationship. I and from now on. I want to do all that I can that I can be that person. There's nothing more important to me than you in this relationship. I'm so blessed to have you in my life in a know it? She presented herself for what you wash is in relationship with and I think she tried to minimize the relationship Nathan and making eye contact quite a bit throughout the trial. Sometimes when she would answer a question or she said something he didn't like he kind of laughed and threw his hands up in the air and disappointment and prosecutors had another piece of evidence they said proved an affair a secret that shook the courtroom. It challenged the very core of. Nathan's defense that Denise was at the center of his life and he would never hurt her. It was a gut wrenching note written by Denise discovered tucked in her day planner in a murder case. You don't have the victim. You never get to hear the victim's story that person's dead and here. We had a note that she had written. That laid the whole thing out. The highly personal very painful note was obviously aimed at Nathan police. Investigator read the note in court. I have tried to please you for seventeen years and never succeeded. I've never been good enough. Never done enough. I know that you want me dead. I'm not stupid. Denise seemed to confirm that she believed her husband was having an affair while she didn't name Mina. She mentioned a much younger woman. You want to humiliate me by running around with a twenty year old fine. I won't grovel if I haven't pleased you in seventeen years. Nothing I do now will please you. How long are you going to do this to me? Oh yeah until I break. That's what you said. Isn't it happy waiting? It was very devastating. I was I was shocked that it had gone that far so she really was jealous. Even though she said that she wasn't she was speaking from the grave and away absolutely absolutely to the jury to everybody her story. I mean that was powerful powerful powerful but not proof said Nelson's attorney in fact. He argued that there was no evidence. That Nathan had done anything wrong at all to judgment. This all happened because he was having an affair and I would submit as they started off with you. There's not a Scintilla of evidence that that was because was there less to this relationship than meets the eye. He was the only person whom I quit. Would talking though it was a friend. They've never lovers if the prosecution couldn't prove that could prove Nathan murdered his wife. You WANNA BE President. I've watched many candidates for their party's nomination but only a few knew how to get it. Microphone my podcast is about what it takes to get the nomination. Six episodes six timeless themes that separate the few winners from the mini losers. The hope still lives and the dream shall never die. So you WANNA be President with Chris Matthews and MSNBC PODCASTS search. Now wherever you're listening and subscribe episode four available now Nathan. Luther had spent a week listening to prosecutors. Paint him as a monster who had planned the execution of his wife. Now it was time for the defense to fight back to say that I killed my wife goes beyond what I ever fathomed hearing from anyone and to say that I had an affair is absurd. I think Nathan was being tested by God. Faith I just thought you know Nathan you gotta be strong and we'll get through. This Nathan lawyer was Hugh Toner. A former prosecutor turned defense attorney. Who argued that? The investigation was faulty. That there were certain preconceived notions of who did it for lack of a better term. That never went anywhere. And for that reason. I'm going to ask you to find Nathan not guilty. Toner insisted the cops zeroed in on Nathan right from the start never pursued any other leads. This was an incomplete and this to Gatien that while the spouse they and in this case would have been the logical place to start. The problem with that is if you follow that gut feeling that's GonNa Cause you very likely to miss other. Things are in this case simply. Not Look for at all for instance. What ABOUT THOSE CARS? Nathan said he had seen in the neighborhood which he thought were suspicious. Not Too long before the murder. His attorney called a neighbor to the stand who'd also seen strange activity. I observed a vehicle part With Ted Lights. On for some extended period of time Five ten minutes at least which I considered to be somewhat unusual and I felt with the direction of the headlights that whoever was in the vehicle could probably see me and my residents a little bit uncomfortable and when he cross examined Diane Parish who identified Nathan as the man in the sweatshirt the day of the murder. She admitted her husband. Had A different recollection. Did you and your husband and had a discussion about the race of the person who was walking along the side of the road cracked and your your husband. Dr Perry's thought that it was a black man. That's another problem with the investigation. The defense pointed out. Was that while the state made a big deal about the gunshot residue on Nathan Sweatshirt. They never tested his enhance for the substance. Why Matt cuts to the Chase and take tests from Nathan Toner? Said there's also an issue with the state's timeline based on court testimony. The murder occurred at around twelve thirty PM after that prosecutors said Nathan would have had to drive Denise Carter the park get in his own car and drive to starbucks where he was seen on surveillance video at twelve. Forty five PM asked him. He would have had to have done all that without Leaving any blood smears getting any blood on him. It was all coming down to that. Crucial fifteen minute window. We decided to see for ourselves. How long that drive would take? We retraced. What investigator said were Nathan steps. That day I've just left a and Nathan's house and appending Robinson Park which is just a few blocks away. I am now arriving at Robinson Park. It took me one minute and fifteen seconds. This is where police say. The cars were switched. So now we're going to switch cars. Take another drive in the second car. We're GONNA drive to starbucks. Let's see how long that takes Red Lights and a little bit of time now at four and a half minutes going just about the speed limit ride on which is forty five miles per hour pulling into the starbucks parking lot we are looking at a travel time of seven minutes and fifty five seconds. You know it added up to nine minutes and ten seconds of driving. That would have left him just under six minutes to ransack the house and shoot denise. His lawyer Hugh Toner says that would have been nearly impossible. The timing just really gets to the point where it's almost not realistic. And what about the state's witness who claimed that Nathan had confessed the whole prime to him? The defense argue. David Smith was a jailhouse snitch. A convicted felon who had gotten a deal for his testimony. He was not even worth cross examining to. You really believe David Smith is the type of person that Nathan is going to confide in and then seek counsel from but according to the defense the main weakness with the state's case was motive. An affair with Aina toner argued. There was absolutely no evidence to support the theory. That Nathan killed his wife so that he could be with twenty year old no matter who asked her I know insisted. Her relationship with Nathan was platonic. Which relationship between you Nathan? He is my sponsor I worked for him. I did a lot of translating weaken helping with organizing Christian conference in Lithuania and he is also was kind of like my mentor and And here in America he was. The only person who Mike with talking with. Helene load was a friend. The defense attorney said the state was making more of those spa visits than was really. There would Mr. Luther will be there with you when you were having away axing he was there to drive me in to pay for it but he wasn't there when that was the procedure was being where you and Nathan ever lovers. That's been asked many times. Correct police ask you about that. Correct and the answer is never changed. Says it? His bottom line was this. The state never even came close to proving a sexual relationship. Not even with the hundreds of hours of taped phone calls. Nathan made from jail over is sixteen months there. Seventeen hundred hours of recorded telephone conversations involving Nathan. Do the math it forty hours a week. You're approaching darn close to almost an entire work year listening to telephone conversations involving days. Where in any one of those things do you have any indication at all the Nathan and Aina per lovers in fact for all the searches there? Nathan's and China's cellphones toner discovered. Something he says is especially telling how many people particularly young people are going to have a relationship with a significant other and not have the picture of their significant other. Did they find any photos? Anything where it would indicate that Nathan and I now were involved in that way. No without a motive and without hard evidence Nathan pulled the trigger. Toner said all the prosecution had were lies. Misinterpretations and omissions guilty. That's what is that would suggestion you respectfully. That's I'd ask the verdict return though Nathan. Luther did not take the stand. He would have plenty to say about the evidence and his innocence. Particularly that schilling note left behind by his wife. She essentially spoke from the grave saying that you wanted to kill her that you were humiliating her with with a twenty year old. Nathan's answer and the jury's verdict. I was like nine percent sure that they had to come back with the guilty verdict with their sat. One Percent Nathan Luth olds murder. Trial was nearing its end. When he had to decide whether to testify at the last minute he chose not to understand the did not something. You'll be take. Why did you decide not to take the stand during the trial? I had chosen to testify prior to trial but as the state continued to take things out of context and continue to throw as much mud as they could on the wall hoping that some of it would stick they had moved me on what I felt with the facts of the case. I wasn't gonNA give them anymore fewer anymore fodder to us or to misconstrue but he wanted to set the record straight with OSS insisting. He's innocent. He also wanted to say that the police never looked past him to catch the real intruder in. What was a real burglary? The police believe it was staged that it just looked to kind of perfect the way that everything was placed and what was taken with things were stolen. Insurance claims verified. They were stolen in. Pay The claim on those items. It was a burglary. Did it look like normal burglary? I'm not sure what enormity looks like but what really upset Nathan was how the state depicted his relationship with Aina someone he had known since she was a little girl someone he had mentored. You can see how it would look that going to the SPA. Getting waxing treatments. The text messages that went back and forth. It seems like there was something going on. I not had no driver's license at the time she had no way of getting around. I was a translator. Take her four. Waxing treatments is not as if I'm in there watching or or whatever else so you check the records. The waxing treatment was the same day. I'm getting a haircut at the same place. Take things out of context. You can say whatever want to make them say like text the day of the murder. Why did I say after the robbery interesting Smiley face? You're asking me what somebody else meant. I just assumed I hit the wrong. Prompt one of the harshest accusations that has come out of all of this is that you killed your wife. And it was Valentine's Day gift for the harshest statement has been killed my wife. It doesn't matter what day it was. I intentionally did it on Valentine's as a gift. I'm not sure what takes a sticker person. The person to actually do that or the person's suggests that and what about those haunting words written by Denise in that note found in her day planner clearly aimed at Nathan. How would he answer that? She essentially smoke from the grave saying that you wanted to kill her that you were humiliating her with with a twenty year old departure referring to says. I know you want me dead. I'm not stupid now to say that. That implies that she felt in danger seems to go against the facts. She never shared that with her best friend. Her super close sister her mother her father. She never called police. She never called counseling hotline. She never did any domestic battery any restraining order anything because there was nothing. Did you want her dad? No why would I want her to be with Aina to groom Aina as your new wife? That is the accusation. That is the accusation. By those who from day one wanted to portray something that fits. Modern Society fits the culture. We live in fits the cheaters lifestyle the Jerry Springer show mindset. It fits those things of making things. Look the jurors of course never heard any of that because Nathan never took the stand. How nervous were you when the jury went to deliberate from a purely selfish perspective? It's my life my future my freedom. It means that I could go back to being the father. Do the children children will be wrapped up. Just one parent. Not of both one was stolen away by someone who was seeking gang and a guilty verdict would steal from the children there. Other part for Dennis's family. That was exactly what they were hoping for for the man they known since he was a young boy who lived with them and now they believe lied to them. When they went into deliberations I was like ninety nine percent sure that they had to come back with the guilty verdict with thirty one percent. And you're thinking. Oh what if someone you know? I really wasn't sure what the jury was. GonNa come back with. There was a lot of evidence provided by the prosecution. I think they did a great job but at the same time. It was a lot of circumstantial evidence. There was no evidence Actually point into somebody seeing Nathan. Do the crime so. I think it was a very hard to tell what the jury was going to do. It was a highly circumstantial case. No hard proof. Nathan Killed Denise and no clear cut evidence Nathan and I know were lovers but whatever it was jurors heard and saw in that courtroom. It was enough in a mere ninety minutes. They reached a verdict. We the jury find the defendant neath loophole not of first degree murder. What went through your mind when you heard that one word guilty close to the same feeling. I had when I heard that my wife had been shot. I just remember hearing that the loss just got that much greater the judge sentenced Nathan to eighty years in prison saying how shameful it was. That Nathan had killed denise in her own home place with such undefined out That you will find your life in a very different type of lease cordray isolated for the state. It was a satisfying ending to a case they had to painstakingly stitch together. I think he tried to portray this image of this wonderful person when in reality you know he was nothing more than a cold blooded killer as for Dennis's parents they're still hurting from such a sudden loss but at least they have her children close as they are now raising them. How did you tell them that? Their father killed their mother. They knew that that he had been a trial for murdering their mother and that a jury had convicted him and the older boy said well. Everybody makes mistakes and my husband Said No. Your Dad made bad choices. Everyone has choices in life and he made some really bad choices. Bad CHOICES LEFT. Anisa's parents coming to terms with the notion that everything they knew to be. True wasn't I felt bad for my husband because he told someone that he always thought that we had the perfect family the perfect life. And you just really don't expect something like that to happen to you when in reality you know bad. Things happen to good people all the time. The made the press. Chuck Todd Cast. It's an insider's take on politics. The twenty twenty election and more candid conversations with some of my favorite reporters about things. We usually discuss off camera. Listen for free wherever you get your podcast.

Denise Nathan Nathan Denise Denise murder burglary Denise Luth Nathan Denise Luther Peoria Nathan Denise Anisa Nathan Indonesia Denise House Lithuania United States Nathan Luther Valentine Diane parish Nathan Luth
The Entrepreneurs - Eureka 135: Beaumont Nathan

Monocle 24: The Entrepreneurs

09:51 min | 1 year ago

The Entrepreneurs - Eureka 135: Beaumont Nathan

"Rica monocle twenty four brought to you by the team behind. The entrepreneurs are collection is massive and growing global market valued at more than sixty billion dollars annually, but it can be a stuffy world as well where the auction houses have long done things their way. And while they adapt and innovate. There are also a number of upstart companies breathing new life into the world of art improving the experience for both buyers and sellers while making deals much more transparent. One of them is London. Consultancy Beaumont Nathan the firm was founded in twenty thirteen by two veterans of the art gallery world, Hugo Nathan and Wentworth Beaumont both worked for Christie's before moving to the Dickinson Roundell gallery in New York and both are experts in the old masters. Having helped to facilitate numerous high-profile acquisitions for some of the world's great museums. After a few years in business Hugo and Wendy brought Tom may on. Board. Now, the firm's director of operations with a career in growing small businesses at a management consultancy Thomas trained to understand value growth and market dynamics, adding analytical and commercial thinking to the extensive industry knowledge of his partners. Here's Tom now on disrupting the world of art dealing through entrepreneurial thinking and the story of Beaumont Nathan. Nathan is trying to become the first professionalized independent auto visory company in the world. And we'll that means is we're trying to give advice that is separate from the pitches that people who previously give you advice setting. So it would totally unconvicted. We don't own any pictures, which selling advice, unlike guitarist or an auction house here the people who typically provide advice in this marketplace. So which want to bring ideas from different industries into the world. And to disrupt it in whichever way we can. Joining the wealth. I was a management consultants. I trained in sort of commercial environments, and I was hired specifically the days to help plan the growth of the company help strategize and help a scale. But to do that I was bringing ideas from the professional services industry. And that's what we try to do with reporting on the level of jillions that we doing on these ultimate very very expensive auto sets. We can spending on Bohol Faulk lines several million dollars to forty fifty million dollars. These extraordinarily knowledge acquisitions than these professional advice like you would get buying a house oil company. And that's why we. O NC they are industry veterans. They knew something missing. From the way the market was operating. It's quite a sort of old fashioned oddity quite lazy industry that's been resting on his laurels sometime, and there's not really a huge amount of commercial expertise anywhere. Really? So I think they had a specific idea to complement what they knew about the history and the sort of the street dynamics of the market with some more intellectual analytical thinking, which they can find anywhere else in the industry. So they looked elsewhere. That's when they found me, and we kind of have been learning we've gone ready. But now we use data we use slightly more laid thinking than perhaps others to do in the marketplace and all clients like that. The dates to me was extremely Wellman odd being assessing regulated structured markets in my previous job, and then arrived day one in the Paik unregulated market the market, you can believe what I was seeing. This is fundamentally market that doesn't have any regulation. You can't trade on the nation. You find which was leading to some quite Showtime, practices and very bad outcomes. Full collectors who blonde setting. So my initial reaction was one of Schulkin and Hora than sort of surprised when I realized it was the standard, and it was legal which was prize. But then I guess I saw the opportunity, and it was really to build a slightly more long term thinking culture based around some slightly more longtime is principles and set a cells apart from the rest saying that about ethics at the heart of the market. But it's simply that when human nature is exposed to conditions where they can do what they like. Held to account for it. People tend to fish the margins, and that's what happens in multiple time. And because all such difficult. I said to comprehend in terms of its quality and its value people get away with imprecision that's kind of the the line that which on a treadmill, Kathy. On behalf lines and deliver value on. One finds dot traditional technological disruption has impacted the market as much as this moments. And so it's still kind of stuck in the in the dark ages at least at the very top end. Whether it has been a lot of disruption as being the lower end of the market, low value transactions happening online ocean houses, apps, though, Instagram, all the usual things, but beyond this point. It is still very interpersonal industry. So we've really found all disruption as being more one of principle and value in process than necessary technology. I think the blow Chiang question is of the big one. I think the potentials for that technology unknown as yet, but they're certainly potential application of blockchain in the question of providence with the market who's owned waltz piece of all before you d tracing back to the moment of creation. That's very powerful statement of authenticity. And if it can be applied in that environment than I think someone will make the technological disruption perhaps that we haven't had today in the Malkin. So that's something to keep an eye on. I think as a company who sees himself as progressive in a relatively regressive market. I think we as a an advisory family to be live to everything this available to us and to be early adopters as and when is the ten on ready and cannot value all role is to keep an eye on these things and bequeathed that when they when they can add to. We see this story simply matching customer demand with supply and two thousand is responsible for managing the clients on a day-to-day basis and for sourcing the material that second bid is harder than it sounds. There is a limit to the volume of high quality works most pieces out there and finding them in. What is very privates discrete? Well, this quite difficult. So they spent almost all that time in that stay on my slides same fully operational strategic role. But we find alongside starkly segment for the all works considering clients that they want to hear about questions valley. They want to understand questions around investments, and they want to know that when they put this money in a picture that it was going to go down in value that they know that before hands or if it's gonna go up they ended up to. And so over time applied my skills from the commercial arena into that kind of conversation. So spending increasing amounts of time. Owning that. Of the puzzle. We are at a an interesting stage of development where we developed a position in which is one of the two greats markets in the world as this moment. New York is the other one and Hong Kong is catching up very quickly. The rise of Asia is a big feature that's impacting the market right now. But so for us for am bishops company that wants to be the best that we can be. We've gotta move into those markets. So the next twelve months is an expansion, and hopefully we will be in New York this time next year and really in the home of the market amok is bigger faster better as most things are in New York, and we need to be there. So that's all plan. About the entrepeneurship journey. And I think a big part of that is looking back at what you're doing a month ago three months ago a year ago in sort of cringe with embarrassment at how simple things were and how added to it. But I think it's unrecognizable in terms of the quality of the advice. Not having anyone to copy has been a big challenge of the business. We got to learn it as we've gone and really learn what was applicable from the legal environment, accounting environment, the banking environment. These traditional professional service environments for what is high valley fundamentally different assets. So we've been learning a lot as we've gone we've discarded things we've added things and things much surer product now and hope you much more value out. But we were doing a lot of things at the beginning that we don't do now, and that's part of the business life cycle. Thanks for sharing the story of Beaumont Nathan the show was mixed and edited by Alex Felix, I'm Daniel beach. Thank you so much for listening and goodbye.

New York Beaumont Nathan Hugo Nathan Beaumont Nathan Tom Beaumont Nathan Wentworth Beaumont Christie London Bohol Faulk Dickinson Roundell gallery Instagram director of operations Asia professional services Wellman Kathy Thomas
Episode 1072 - Nathan Lane

WTF with Marc Maron Podcast

1:43:11 hr | 1 year ago

Episode 1072 - Nathan Lane

"Hey folks can't get enough of. HBO's watchmen now. You can go deeper inside. The critically acclaimed new series. With the official watchmen. podcast hosted by watchmen executive producer and writer Damon. Lindelof and Craig Mazin. The creator of the new podcast explores narrative choices uncovers offers Easter eggs and examines. The show's connection to the groundbreaking. Graphic novel stream watchmen now and catch new episodes Sundays at nine PM. Only when we on. Hbo Wow what a bounce in this room what where Sir all right. Let's do this. How are you what the fuck is what the fuck buddies? What what the fuck? And here's what the Fuck Knicks. What's happening how's it going? I'm mark mayor and this is my podcast. I'm not recording at home as you can tell by the sound quality or the sound that it's because it sounds different because I'm in Ireland. I'm in Ireland. Still it's been amazing trip. We are having a great time here. Yes you can go see a bunch of pictures on instagram. If you don't follow me on Instagram I think Marc Maron one word at Marc Marc. Maron I think yes I did get a little bit of a cold but I'm not letting it stop me. I'm not leading it. Hold me back I ruined been fucking amazing but let's do some business takes place in America real quickly because our oldest sponsor going back with us before we even started. WTI Back to the break room. Live days is just is coffee. Dot Co op. There are fair. Trade Organic Coffee Company based in Madison Wisconsin and they're great people in addition to having great coffee and I want to let you know that they I have a thirty percent off coffee sale going on now through December. Eighteenth if you get the W. T. F. Blend we get a little kick back on that one. Yup We still do go go to just coffee. Dot Co op that C o p just coffee dot co OP. Okay you get it we all right all right. Look Nathan Lane. Nathan Wayne is on my show today and I don't even think he's here for a particular reason I think he was just around. I mean he's got. He's always doing things but we wanted to get him for a while and then he just decided to come by. So that's going to happen. Sorry about my cold and I'm sorry about the sound quality bouncing around in this place. It's been amazing here in Ireland. I really feel at home here. I don't know much about the history of the place nor do I know yeah I don't I don't know much about it at all but I just feel very connected to it. I don't know why I think it's something to we do with the The nature of the people and the nature of the land itself. I started to think about it on a deeper level this entire island. It's in Ireland right and it's so it's just a tangle of roots and rocks. The entire thing is living organism that is lived for eons for centuries for thousands of years you can feel the life of the land beneath you in a very organic way. But it's finite and unique and it's just the way it engages with the with the atmosphere up here and the way the people are so connected to it they seem to just be natural extensions of the actual life life of the Rock and Moss and Pete and roots and had their and stuff. Yeah it's all connected man and see why poetry comes from here because there's a direct connection to the entanglements of organic matter that connect the entire world slowly slowly. That's all going away. It will die. Did that not end. Well did that end in an Irish way I would say it ended in an Irish way so we left Dublin drove up to Donegal. I don't want to pronounce it wrong. I don't know if I'm pronouncing it. Wrong County Donegal okay. Which is pretty pretty intense up there? The weather was intense. It changed every few minutes. It was windy. It was raining it was cold it was sunny but always green and beautiful everywhere everywhere. You look here green and beautiful and scenic. There's the clouds the gray. The colors had happened when the sun comes out. It's fucking insane insane everywhere you look. We're driving we're like oh should we pull over in do this at arrest area. Because we shouldn't do this while we're driving. Everything is beautiful up here and it's fucking amazing but you know what else I noticed. It's amazing no sign age. No billboards no garbage along the streets but also no no street lamps makes it tricky to drive and I might add. I am now the Hickey regularly ambidextrous. I did it pretty fucking weird man and I thought she was going to have to do it all because I was a coward and she had been here once before and she was like. I don't have any problem with driving on the wrong side of the road and I said Yeah I could probably do it but in my heart I was like. That's that's fucking crazy. How do you do that and took a while but I stepped up and did it and I think I mastered it? I think I've mastered it. There is an issue when you drive on the left side of the road where you tend to want to run the car into a wall or whatever's on the left side of the road. I don't know why that happens. drita very narrow here the highways and see another car coming. And you think you're right in the lane but then all of a sudden you hear the car hitting shrubbery or about to go off the other side and and you think like why the fuck is happening. I know these roads are just enough. They're just wide enough for a car. I shouldn't be afraid and eventually start to work against your instinct to drift to the left. He just kind of you just hold on and when you when the car comes by you on the right you just go. I know him. Okay I can see the line and it goes by you but you still flinch but after a while you get used to it and then you start to actually think I fucked them there on the other side let them move and I don't know if that's me being an American and not very polite but so I can do that now I can drive on both sides confidently without even Understanding Street signs here folks. Don't interrupt your workday or fight traffic to get to the post office anything you can do at the post office you can do it. STAMPS DOT com whether you're a small office ending invoices or even a warehouse sending sending thousands of packages a day simply use your computer to print official. US postage twenty four seven for any letter any package any class of male anywhere. You want to send once your mail is ready just handed to your mail carrier or drop it in the mailbox with stamps dot com. You also get five cents off every first class stamp stamp and up to forty percents off priority mail not dimension. It's a fraction of the cost of those expensive postage meters. Don't spend a minute of your holiday season at the post office this year sign up for stamps. Dot Com with Promo Code W F get a special offer that includes a four week trial plus free postage and a digital scale. No long term commitments are contracts. JUST STAMPS DOT COM. Click on the microphone at the top of the homepage and type in W. T. F. that stamps dot com enter. WPF STAMPS DOT COM. Never go to the post office again. I'm sitting in a large living room almost most in the ocean with a wood burning stove. But it's not wood-burning it's not a wood burning stove. It's I went out and unbought bricks of Pete. Pete breaks that they dig out of the ground. They they make fuel that you burn in a oven or a stove to heat your house from the ground from the living organism awesome. This is how it all feeds itself. This is how it all comes together. This is an island almost entirely made of rock and Mulch bag roots decomposing organic matter. I went out and bought like two dozen bricks of it for five dollars. And I'm burning right now pete. It's a brown. Deposit resembling soil formed by the partial decomposition of vegetable batter in the wet acidic conditions of bogs and fens. It's and it's often cut out and dried for use as fuel and also in gardening. That came right from my memory. Yeah I just remembered that I didn't read that from the wikipedia page fucking spectacular breathtaking cliffs to the point where I almost lost the woman. I'm with over the cliff. Because she was so excited she went right to the testing me. Testing me to see if I would step out and save her from herself and I said hey what the fuck you doing. It's Wendy appeared. Don't be stupid and she wandered around like a child breath and then she went back out there. What the fuck dude come back in and I think that was concerned but also just the hassle of dealing with a corpse in another country is not something I wanted to deal with not on my vacation I mean you gotta wait there? They gotta go getter the bottom of the thing thing airlifter out phone calls made and we haven't even told some of our family that we're together so I don't want to be in the position. Where am I back? I know you didn't know about us. There's a bigger problem. She fell off a cliff in Ireland. And and I'm sorry but can. Can I leave this package here. That didn't happen. We went to giant's causeway which is something I always wanted to fuck and see just from the pictures. Those goddamn octagon rocks is Ami sides. They have their their geometrically shaped their octagon rocks. Yes and you see pictures of him. And I'm like where's that I've been saying that for fucking eight years about Ireland and about giant's causeway and we saw that and then some pointed out to me that's the cover of the House of the holy record which I didn't know those are those rocks. I was there but those strange Elfin children were not climbing on the rocks yesterday. We did what. What did we do yesterday? Nothing I read the script for a movie. I'm going to be in. Yeah it's been announced. I'm going to be in a movie called respect. It's a bio pic of Ruth Franklin up to a point and I I play Jerry Wexler so I read that script and I studied it a bit anyways. We took one day. 'cause I got a cold and it was the day to do that so today we went to Galway. Had Time had a tour guide friend of a friend in Collin took US around. I'm going to hike up the mountain across the way I'm pointing now folks to a religious mountain that's is right across from where I'm staying tomorrow morning whether I'm sick or not whether it's raining or not hiking up to the top because I because it feels mystical to me. I I need to do it so I had a really old old old Christian Shit here like old. I'm not thinking about you. Know I'm just saying bordering on primitive anyway hit the Christian mountain Sunday. We go to Spain for the film festival. which which is why we came with sort of trust? We're taking the film to Guerrero G. I J O and is a film festival there and sort of trust is going to be playing there so we're taking the film there. All right. Detectives can smell the peat fire. Can you smell the bog bricks burning fucking love. This is country. Hey folks listen to me just listen to me. Hiring can be a slow process and it can be like that for everyone. 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Merrin that's ZIPRECRUITER DOT com slash Merrin to try it for free right Ziprecruiter. The the smartest way to hire Nathan Wayne came to my house. Lovely man extremely talented. Ma'am all I know is so how he will. He went on twitter any cracked the code. It's not that hard to crack. But it's a real thing and I just want to say for him and for you that this was a great talk and you understand why. I'm putting emphasis on that. It's for Nathan Really. And he's still. He's currently a recurring character. A modern family now in its final season. ABC after ten years. And he's currently shooting being the penny dreadful spinoff series city of angels which is shooting now and will air on showtime. But most of this. But not. It's sort of like the Lili Taylor situation. This was another chat that we've been trying to do for a long time. He was in La and had the time on his schedule and he came over to talk and it was a great. Take Talk Nathan. I'm saying that to you. I'm saying that to the people and I will post that on twitter. This is me talking to Nathan Lane. I'm in Ireland. This happened back in California me Nathan and Incense. It's insensitive. I never burn. I think that's a telling sign. I'm afraid that it's going to set off the alarm. I there's a nice smell linear and I was surprised because you have cats but that's what people have said. You're the second person that said that recently. I don't understand how you can have cats and you're you're all house doesn't smell like capi or shit. I don't know how I don't know why that is I you probably. I'm wearing Pachulia that that might be it Yeah in the seventies or sure all of all of a sudden chewy does yeah. Were you really though. Yeah sure I know before he leaves Yuli and they uh-huh coming down. I smell a chilly. Yeah and so. You've never been to Glendale but you've been to bourbon anonymous sex. Yes there's a well well not so much here and it's not an anonymous. Glendale is not a big anonymous sex. Stop I don't think well not yet any places though now with the apps you you know what I mean and now we're just two old Jews an apartment babs. How many do you have on on the phone? I worked my phone my my my grandson put one on. I don't know what is I open it. I don't know what it is which he told me. I don't know I did a lot of research for this. Yeah yeah so I you know I'm familiar with your stand-up I'm a fan of. Oh you did research on me. Yeah Oh boy what did you come up with. So here's here's what I saw. Are we recording yet. Sure we've been recording so And I noticed on your twitter account. I'm very I'm not doing that a lot. But but but you have a picture of your guests. You feel people in who they are what they've done the top and then at the end it says good talk guitar but in some Tom Mix as great talk and I thought now that he's given some thought to that and I saw because I have I'm emotionally fragile. I'll be looking. I'll be looking to see if I got good talk or great. No if you gave me a great fucking talk I would be thrilled. I could I to get by for the next week. No one is ever called me on that. But you're you're you're right in in assuming that there is a you know Danny got a great talk quoting warning Harrelson. Good Talk. Good good. Didn't change my life. I never cried. It was good I can tell is nice no good it was good. You know there there. There's something sometimes you connect and I think we already did 'cause I I don't and why you're just one of those people. I knew I would connect with you immediately because maybe I don't know I you're needy. You know we're both Jersey. City natives won't born in Jersey City. So there's a connection Margaret Hague Margaret Hague hospital. Yup Yeah I was born. I'm a little older than you. My father grew up there. I was just born born there. I don't know why maybe it was the only hospital he knew but my father went to the only hospital there. But I mean. I don't think on for Margaret Hague. Right I don't think they might might. He wasn't living there then. I don't know why exactly but he grew up. He went to Snyder high school. Oh sure sure yeah. She grew up in Jersey City Jersey City and my mother other was your full journey called manic depressive. Yes full unfold. We have full jersey. Wow yeah that's great. She was MAC depressive. Yes and my father was an alcoholic. All right so are we done. Great talk is a great time to understand the way here. I passed forest lawn and Mount. Sinai cemetery yes I'm thinking about mortality. I thought mortality would be the topic with you will tell me it. Hit me as I was going by a great well very kind. Thank you to. You don't seem you seem well so now okay do you have. Do you have brothers and sisters too. I have two older brothers and Bob. Are they both around both around. So that's great. You're doing good doing all right there in their seventies and they're not in show business no no. Although my oldest brother Dan Mira introduced me to the theater he took me to the theater early on Gabe Geico box and took me to the Theater Jersey City like back then because I knew there was a period like when my father grew up there was a thriving beautiful place and at some point I remember. He wanted to go back and visit where he grew up in. It was a very dangerous city. We still like a nice place to have a family when you were growing up. Yes I think it was but you know we were poor but dad do or what was the around. Well he was a truck driver and regional vocal Cross country yes cross country or so. He's away and yes then at a certain point. His eyesight started to go and Bruce. Now wow didn't drink. He was not a drinker at all. Then and then someone. I don't know who got him a job as they He was a court clerk so He had apparently would they used to tell me you will. Because he had more time his hands and he wasn't driving trucks anymore. It started drinking. Yeah how old were you Well I was around eleven when he died so I was A mistake I was. You know it was one of those. My mother had me when she was four Catholic mistake they went to a wedding a little too much Schlitz and and the next thing you know it happened so your dad. He passed away. When you're eleven yes so? That's a big absence. How'd how did he die? He drank himself to death. Yeah my mother. She had You know for years she she would get them into into Aa. From time to time I would go. And then he would fall off the wagon and then finally she left him. She moved out and took and we. We went to to Clendenin here so that was one after she left and then out six months he died about six months later he drank himself to death very a tragic and he was. He was totally blind now but he was. You know I was psoriasis of the liberal was was but without someone to take care of me just just wanted to win. Yeah and you. Didn't you didn't end up with that. With what the alcoholism. Oh well good for you. I certainly had my moments for decades. Yeah Yeah Yeah sure. I mean But it no. It didn't go quite as far as alcoholism but but certainly I was a long period. You gringo it Oh yeah oh yeah yeah so your mom was. When was she diagnosed with bipolar? Well that was a long process and at first. It was diagnosed as an overactive thyroid. Oh yeah then It was you know. They just kept saying she was having being a breakdown. This was after a my her mother. My grandmother had died and who was a big part of our family and really helped to raise me. GRANDMA WHO Marianne her name is Maryann. She celerion Donnelly Rezala then Marianne Finnerty. She was solid. She was yes yeah she was a great lady and she would go to her house for lunch you know from I was going to Catholic school. He out when she Irish full-on yes. Yes from Ireland. Yeah Yeah Yeah yes she yes she well yeah she was the accent and everything oh always she was a great cook and so she had died and my mother kind of fell apart and this was and he she had died and then he had died. And then that's when it started to go south and she and her brother who was a Jesuit priest who was a priest. Yeah Yeah Yeah. And then he was the one. Everyone went to for advice. Even though he was an alcoholic to he was he was drinking a dry. Rob Roy telling everyone what to do with their lives in their marriages robe. Yeah so she was in and out of mental hospitals. Oh wow how old were you young allows you know eleven or twelve and then she stayed with your grandma no oh she had she was dead by this right so this is starting to get to Kenzi and but my brother's still at home at that point but she would be she was is in and out of hospitals and they would you know I can remember her being in in one place That was not I want to say it was and Trenton state and it was really bad doing like electroshock and stuff. They didn't do that but she was. You know I guess they were giving your medication and so forth but she would. I remember her saying to me. Please get me out of here. I'm I'm not that bad. Oh man just terrifying. Yeah and then so she was in and out and that she was going through these different stages of manic depression which would be paranoid and thirty love it or depressed attempted suicide or this is a great way to start. This interview is better than ending it. This way. No way speaking he can give suicide. Yeah so like how did she live long enough to get level with the medicine or what. Yes that's really. Yeah she we we were. My brother Danny moved us to Rutherford is after I finished high school here thinking change of scenery might help there and she was In a really bad place and would come and she caused She went to the local church. Yeah and caused the scene. In what way well she she was a hold of. This is a really podcasts. She she had thing halfway podcast. It was it was a priest here at one time in her life and she imagined that he he was around and that he was on the altar and she you know. showed up at a nightgown in a raincoat and lit up a cigarette. Walk down the aisle during like a high mass or something. Oh yelling winging priests on the altar thinking he was this priesthood at one time been in her life. And I think this is gonNA sound Out like Fatty Hurst's novel but when my father was away during World War Two yes She had A. I don't know whether it was a full out affair. But she fell in love with his young priest guy who was studying for the priesthood. This happens I think his name was Lloyd. lacomb it's you know the name. Yeah 'cause because she used to talk about him Oh wow so she made does yes and so she thought he was Lloyd the Communist screaming at him and then this made the local paper and then they took her to this hospital. There was a manic break. Kind of deal. Yeah I mean it was just I mean an episode. Yes yes and she was very mannequin. And finally she It was diagnosed as manic depression and they put her on lithium and then that kind of knocked it down. Well it it you know. She received leveled it leveled off. So they were things than better with you guys Yes yes yes it was. It was better. I mean she was always How long did she difficult person to make happy? Yeah well that's it sounds familiar. Yeah Yeah but but not as dramatic. I found that my parents my dad was a bit on the bipolar side. My mom was pretty self absorbed orb was it was never making them happy. I just knew that it wasn't quite enough. It wasn't like that. Actually that's true with my my father. My mother used to say to me like why would you go upstairs and make them laugh. You the only one who can long. Oh that's pressure and that pressure to sure very moving but it's horrible and then I ended up in comedy. Of course yes. Moore's I ended up in making people laugh and resenting them for laughing laughing come on. That's that sort of you know the people don't you love the audience. I ever I definitely I have a love. Hate relationship with audiences always have so. When did she was she able to see your success? How would you pass I I? She was eighty four so she had seen a few things. Yes and that's great. Yes absolutely no is. It was wonderful all that she got to see that. And that that you think you were good then she would always say she you know she would say things like it. Would it would be some big Broadway. Opening night would say it was very cold in the theater. Ah She would say she always used to say to me. I'm not saying this because I'm your mother on saying it because it's true you were the best. What's what's the best one you would the best one That's nice so your parents. Your brothers are like a decade eight older. You're you're you're next oldest brother like that much older. Yes Oh yeah yeah so they. It was the mistake that they were. But you were able to at least see we some way of getting older through them. You know what I mean like they. They were grown. When you were young like I mean but when you were fifteen brothers This twenty-five yes. Yeah they were. You know. I think my brother Danny in particular he was the oldest I think he he felt a responsibility in some way to be the father. Fear and to look out for me and but which is I think partly why he for for summary. You might have been this I whenever I was about ten or eleven had guests and they took me out to throw a football around. I think there are many things at play on this day. And so they're throwing me the football and I'm tr- you know and I'm catching it and you know it's it's but it's is not going well and then finally a pound my brother Bobby always tells me this story he always brings it up. Yeah says and you call us over and you very seriously salie handed us the football season. Listen I'm not a sportsman Nossa Salad Ted. Who says says sportsman less? You're like in Victorian Times. Anyway that's what I said. That was so. That's what you said when you came out I am not as uh-huh yeah I know and it still wasn't enough. How how do I have to be? They were all upset. That I I. Yeah I was interviewed once and I said the by a bastion of Integrity AAs magazine. If I was gay I said at the time I said I'm forty single and I work a lot in the musical theater. You do the math. What are you need flash cards and of? It still wasn't enough. They they wanted a word. So Yes my brother was my brother. Danny who really sort of who took me to theater in New York and when when you were younger though we're were you interested in it or were you like doing it in high school or uncomfortable. I I just uncomfortable No I I was veracious reader and I Because of this being being exposed to theater I joined a play of the month club called the fireside theater. These descend me plays and Remember the first play I got was the odd couple by Neil Simon when you were in high school Yeah so even younger. The actual wasn't even before high school I was reading. Plays blaze bike from French. Is the actual play scripts now with this. Was The you know the sort of published. Okay wasn't the sort of that yet. The Samuel French stuff. Yeah until that came later but one of the first ones you remember reading was the odd couple the odd couple and Eugene O'Neill so you know the iceman cometh and so this is stuff you read when you were a kid and you end up being in year. There's a prophesy yeah really Simon Gray Simon. I'm in great play Butley. Yeah a lot of these things. He took me Dan. My brother Daddy took me to see Alan Bates in Butler on Broadway and it was good. It was it was a classic Simon Grade play and it was very funny. I don't know enough about theater. Yeah he's a British wonderfully I think under appreciated gated British writer. Play quarter means terms which was a big success and I did a play of his eventually called the common pursuit off Broadway like British comedy in general too. I like British comedy in general. I like a all kinds of comedy. I really like British comedy. Yeah because because there's right well there's this specific tone like you know like if you do the producers you do the odd couple you do The forum report classically Jewish written stuff. There's a role sure. Yes doesn't that have their. I mean you've done you've done two things that I think Eczema Stelle started yes. That's right. Isn't that right sure. Yeah but But like there's a piece to it that there's a and you can do it like you know you can do it as is good as a Jew I that is high praise indeed. Well I think it must be the Jersey thing or I don't know what yeah. Yeah now I know. It's I played many Jewish character and people because I changed my name to Nathan. They they thought they just assume they assume that I'm Jewish. So he had to deal with that your entire theatrical careers old Jewish women coming up to you. You're very good. You're a real Manche. We are something you WanNa be my daughter Rachel. Oh sure I do remember a woman. Say that after guys and dolls dolls saying you were very good and And as you know and I could tell she was so thinking about her I just said Oh. Yeah I as she said An. I saw Sam levied and I said Oh I wasn't better than Sam Levine. And she said no come on. That was Samm Levine. Very Good Sabal. Don't get don't get ahead of yourself. That's right I'll get too so big the bridges so you're going to theater when your kid 'cause you brothers Takin. He gave her to apparently yeah. Or was he just trying China. You somehow say this kid's going to be an actor. He's got something. Nobody was friends of his. Were putting on a play in in college and he volunteered. My services was the first time I acted because they were they. Were doing this play where they needed a a a kid to show up in the second act and do words words of short scene and so he said My my brother will do it and he came home and told me that I would be doing this so I was in I was in. This is play was a frank. Gilroy play cold who'll save the plow boy and you were the plow boy no But I had to. I was brought on and it was in Jersey a Jersey a Jersey City state college and I heard you do you came on. Well I I got some laughs. Yeah and then I was drunk with power and then and I just remember. They had an opening night party but I was they. I was too young to go. I was sent home a mere. I was really upset about that then. I could go the opening night party because I was a part of the cat. How old are you? I was very indignant. I duNno nine ten. Why can't I I have no idea about already with the adult? That's right But so do you think that's where you got the bug to do it. Sure really yeah. And also reading about you know I was fascinated by The Algonquin roundtable. You know waiting alcoholics and yet in New York just across the river seem so exotic. That's known wild to be in in Jersey City. No that was just over there so close and yet so far right yeah. Do you ever think about that. Like you only made it across the river and then when I would go to New York to see plays in New York as a kid I would. I would think I could never live here. It's terrify so you leave Jersey easy city where you where do you. How do you start acting plays in high school and then I was going to go to Saint Joseph's College in Philadelphia I had I had for college? We had no money so I got a drama scholarship and my brother Daddy drove me there and I was you know I had a government loan student loan and And then they told me that I owed them more money and I was going to have to take out another loan or something and this was very upsetting to me and my brother said well look you know if you're that upset you said you could take a year and and work and make money and you'll have have to go to college right now and I don't think he was expected to be to say okay. I said okay. I'm not going to go. We went back could gut the bags out of the room and I went back to Jersey City and again whoever somebody somewhere someone got me a job as A. Ah a bail interviewer Anyone who was arrested in Jersey City was brought to me and I would have to fill out the paperwork for the court clerk to see if he would determine whether they be released on their own recognizance really. Yes that was it. I did this for about three weeks job. There was John. It was a Bale Bale interviewer at the seventh precinct. And Jerseys they remember your dad or something. I don't know but it it was I. I don't even remember how this this came about but yes people will be brought in screen making company Blood D- Own any real estate was was terrible. Must have been scary barrels scary. Yeah three weeks you lasted lasted. I lasted three weeks. I had worked with a theater company. Cold the half penny playhouse. Where's that it was it was in? It was a theater in residence at upsala college in East Orange. You New Jersey. And they had a little theater there and I had done some shows with them with like like a radical theater. Not at all like the late sixties now. Not Not no no no cafe La Mama. This was This was they were doing musicals physicals and plays musicals then I did a few musicals and then they were doing a musical revue about the history tree of New Jersey. Call Jers J. E. R. Z.. When is that we wore gold sweatshirt so they had said Jay? You need to do a production of this now end this Nathan. Let's revived yours tour schools because the tunnel was coming up seventy so yes this is in seventy ever need in seventy six so they were booked and that was sort of the beginning. I so I didn't i. I left the the seventh precinct started this musical revue shares. It was Music or if I did it for quite a while you did yes. I did a lot of things for that. I did a musical about for minute. Seemed like we were going to go metric. We did get a musical revue called one for good measure. That's how I got my equity card card. That's how I got my union card. We doing this for kids. Yeah Okay Okay Yeah so can you imagine a two drink minimum with one one for good measure. So you're trying to teach people the Metrics Metric System Ladies and gentlemen how you got your equity card. That was how I got my equity card. Yes Oh These were great days really no budgets the beginnings so you didn't have any acting training. I know for a long time. I didn't then I took. I went to the Stella Adler Studio throughway. Okay so you moved to New York after one for for good measure drew. I come on a rise. Yes I gotten yes I was living in New York by then. Yes we're midtown is now the upper west side. Yeah but then I was in the union but then was difficult again a job. I was a struggling New York. Have you joined the Union. Just join us. Pay Your dues nearing well. The the the the musical about the metric system was an equity Shell. Ok p Hartley kind of like you do an equity show. Then you gotta Pay Your. Do I love a good Taft Hartley reference. I don't even know what it means but I know that's what it means. I can be on movie. They if you're not a union member then they they taft Hartley you whatever that means he and get the first one free and then you gotta pay us. What neighborhood you're in you're out here? I've gotTA tapped Hartley. That happens a lot around here. There's a lot of that going on around here Nathan. But you're in the union. You're not working. I got in the Union. Yes and so I would. I did a lot of struggling actor the job of selling things by phone and doing Harris poll surveys and singing telegrams. And where do you go to sell ad were in to the thing I went. I took a summer summer. I thought I better. I should learn what what this is all about here so I took a three courses at a summer session. And what you have out yet one for good measure under your belt and lots of dinner theater and summer stock and those where you regional like you go on to. Oh Yeah H. O. H.. Shows eight weeks over the summer. Yeah I did all of that bike. Where like in Ohio? And all that Shit in Chatham New York Yeah at a theater called the Mac Hayden which was in a barn literally a barn that they cleaned out. This was like the way a lot of people got started. I talked else. It got started like this doing John Goodman. Yeah like did that. That kind of theater in Ohio. I work with John Goodman at Equity Library Theatre in nineteen seventy seven seventy eight. We did midsummer tonight stream together with him having you I have done a lot of plays with him yeah. I just talked to him last week. He's the greatest. He's doing pretty good. He's doing very very well. Yeah Yeah Yeah. No wonderful and brilliant actor. It's fun to work with. He's the nicest so such as sweetheart. Yeah Yeah and he so you know. He's very hard on himself he but he's brilliant brilliant actor. Yeah we've done. Yeah we did waiting waiting for Gado. We had the front page together. Oh yeah that was based on the movie based on the movie fuck one now now I know why they call it. What the fuck what the fuck wait? The movie was based on they move the okay okay. Now it's Ben Heck Charles Macarthur play from nineteen twentieth guys. There were a few young version. Right I'm sorry I just didn't. Wasn't that the one you're not the one that Didn't Woody Allen Act in front page now and what am I thinking. I don't know about the. It was a blacklisted director. Who was a great movie the front or the front there? You go class not not a bad mistake to make Martin was Martin. Ritt was Walter Zero was in zero mastel performance. All right so I love that movie. So you doing all this summer stock and you're doing these like the dinner theater things you working with John Goodman. You're both young. Were you drinking at that place. He used to drink what what places that I don't know he said there was a couple of bars you went to with other actors would hang out. We went to different kinds of parts but yeah we were both drinking heavily. I'll towel put it. Let's put it that way. How is that life in the seventies? What the other wife Gay gay life seventies on right? I was just talking about this. The the day was called the long. Hello we we said here Chad. But why don't we go home and fuck. That seemed like a good idea at the hi enough of this talking. What's your name? Never this chick mad or left to their own devices they do. It's what they do. You know I if everyone's on the same page and you understand what's going on a good time three to four people in night or at the same time. Why not sure I did it all anyway? I did it all. It's unbelievable survive. Yes yeah well well. It's certainly a different New York now. Isn't it oh. Yeah Oh my God I mean obviously not just that part of it but all all of it. Well now you walk through Times Square and it's a it's a mall it's it is small but do you ever get the feeling though sometimes. Where were you looking like? It is a mall but the spectacle of lights. I think is exactly what it was supposed to be like. I think that before you know the seventies whatever it was supposed to be initially in terms of going the Times Square right it definitely was some equivalent to what it is now right. I think you'd miss just a little dessert and the fill. The scene is sure porn. Yeah sure I remember. I saw Haider's I remember when I was in college. I went into a live sex show in Times Square. Yeah where you walk in you go into a booth you put token in a window comes up and there are two people fucking on a rotating table. Brian feel awkward. I was up for that you. Yeah the physical. Yeah wow well sure no no I look it's certainly it's better it's better. It's just overcrowded. In and it's annoying having to make your way through all of that I think Jen I think like sort of romanticised I eased. CD is been eradicated from all parts of the culture really. That's depressing but do you. Do you know what I'm saying. I don't think I've ever really thought of VIP then was clean. Everything up. Yeah there was a time like in the seventies even like all culture was just goes back to the barely guardia. Wanted to clean up New York before the world's fairs so we got rid of all the burlesque houses. Yeah I guess so but like now it's just moved indoors. Now it's like because porn is so available you know like you don't get to see it out in the world anymore. It's a long to leave their house now. I know. That's now your satellite Martin. Scorsese they do y what people aren't going out to the theaters anymore. Exactly what to watch it on Netflix. They can have their drugs. Delivered got porn in the house. Really you never have to leave the house back then. You could see the Weirdos going out and doing what they had to do to get what they need it not as much anymore. Yeah so what was the first big show where you like. I'm doing it this is it. I'm a Broadway actor home because you're done. A television series of short lived television series with Dana Carvey and Mickey Rooney called one of the boys. NBC Yeah Thirteen Glorious Glorious Episodes and then I had Heike Rooney and Old Mickey Rooney. How's that Oh th- again another podcast? it would take too long but he was difficult he No not with major He he liked me near I think he. I thought I was old school. I don't think he understood. Dana Dana was very funny. Obviously Even then he you know he was hilarious. Mickey didn't Understand I. I think making you used to annoy because I think Mickey thought he was. Gay and Dana would say what do you tell them. You're gay and I would say well. Why why why am I gonNA do? MGM starred ruined his day telling him something like that. It's only going to be thirteen episodes. And he likes me and he likes me. I don't want to upset them. Fight no he was. He was I I remember that we had to shoot a fifteen minute presentation. Pilot the network to see if there was I guess. Chemistry sucks the three of us. Yeah and you know he was riding eating high because of Sugar babies and the black stallion and so his career had turned around because of this. He thought in his spare time during the day. I'll fill television television. Show for NBC right so it was not a good show wasn't a good fit. Yeah show the developer Jack Albertson but he died success number. What you know? He was alive next at Bat. Yeah so we we're GONNA shoot this presentation and we're in a room alone waiting to you know they're bringing in an audience in and we know him very well. Yes new Z.. Z. Mickey Rooney and sell these tiny. We're seeing yes were sitting in this room. And he he He turns to WHO MAINTAIN IT and he says. Let me tell you something fellas. This show is going to be the most successful show in the history of television now. Dana and I are looking at each other like. We'll be lucky if we do all thirteen. Could this hokey premise. And he's going to be rich. I'm I'm telling you we're going to be rich. You hear me to hear what I'm saying and we're going to be so successful that eventually we'll put together a stage version of TV levy show and we'll tour with it will make even more money because let me tell you something Fallas. Tina Turner made eight ZILLION dollars last year. But but Judy Garland died a pauper so Dana and I are now backed against the wall in terror and they come in they say Mr Rooney were. We're ready we'll be ready for you in five minutes. I'll great thanks a lot and it was just sort of him revving himself up for the show realizing we thinking you know please skull security. That was that was in the beginning. Yeah and he was also a born again really. Yeah Did he stay that way. stink born again. He was born against would talk about you know he was visited by an angel. A real job yet. But meanwhile he beyond on the phone you know meowing he was always at the race track. He was hilarious. Oh what a character. Yes so that. How did that get you to the theater? How big Bro? I had come out here. This was in nineteen eighty. This is So you're in a couple of years in your ogling actor and it but this is this part we skipped over. which was that? I was in the world of standup comedy because I'd done a show with another actor named Patrick Stack and people liked us together. Thought we were funny together and you play. We'd done a musical musical revue. Okay out of those and I did a lot of stuff so We eventually we wrote wrote for some people. And then we put an act together and then You know we're in clubs. And and and we were signed by an agent at William Morris and and in one thousand nine hundred eighty we came here to la. You're doing stand up. Catch a rising star and stuff at at the IMPROV and a couple of Improv Improv. Forty and yeah and the next thing. We're we're here in LA. I'm at the back of the comedy store and the David Letterman is onstage. Yeah neither one of US actors. Neither one of us were thinking you know stand up. Comedy was goal but we thought of what might lead to serving and we were doing just we were doing. Sketch Meteorite And so it was. I mean I have. I have the utmost respect for standup comedians. And and just so I but I never thought of myself as standard. It didn't produce a show I presented by Mike bigly. Oh that's different. I presume you well. No the money didn't change hands. I you know he asked me. We have become friends when he was putting the show together. He and and they were going to debut off Broadway and he was talking about another one person show that was being presented by Meryl Streep God and He. He was annoyed. How did she get Meryl Streep to presenter so so And then he looked at me and he said which would you present me and I said sure I'll present you I do. I have to write a check and he said No. I said I'll definitely talk present. You I'll present the hell out of you so suddenly it said and I said if you think it'll help and he said well in in terms of the theater yes so it would say negatively presents Mike particularly in sleepwalk with me in which is the first time that I saw you as an actor in the movie here. How Yeah Yeah because I thought you were so terrific in this little seen thank you I know you were playing a world weary? Comedian is in your wheelhouse. But I. Aw Oh you're he's a real actor. We'll thank you very much you were very. You're not only authentic and believable. But it was. It was also very funny but I I appreciate that the the first time I saw you as an actor. Thank you it was. It was one of the first times I did it. I think is that right. I haven't done that much. You know as before I did anything's before I did Nehemiah Nehemiah show or glow or anything so yeah it was only the second or third time. I've been on screen in that capacity. Yeah Nice of Mike to ask me well. It was it was is a really great little scene and I had no idea you were presenting me not the movie. The last one I presented presented that I didn't now only presented sleepwalk with me. Oh wait why didn't you present this one He he didn't ask that's weird. I know because he has somebody else. Now Brad big time producers. Now he doesn't need me anymore. He's a big head. Can we get back to this because now I'm curious. So what do you few I can use it over. No not at all you kidding. I hope you're my new best friends and your Yeah you can stay here at the house if you want So you're out doing stand up. Yeah and this leads to what well so we come out here and and We made a debut at the comedy. Hamady store sure and then then we We were when did the MERV Griffin show. Oh my God and Merv said Oh they just blew the roof off the comedy store. Then we went out and tanked tanked tanked on Merle just before Elke sommer was discussing her artwork. That was the warm Emma so wasn't quite ready for the hijinks of stack and lane. You know and then we open for rock acts Eddie Rabbit in Petaluma did that we open for Algebra. Oh Nice Tempe Arizona. You were doing those. What fifteen twenty minutes spots? That's right ahead of the Rock Doc. Acting GIG in the world. They don't bill. You know they just they just before Eddie. Rabbit here's the comedy stylings of Stacking Lane and people are booing home my growing things. It was a Petaluma the either the home of the wrist wrestling champ. Sure Yeah and there was a sea of cowboy and all you know you. Just they'd already ravaged show. I'm their drugs for Rabbit. And now now these clowns and he literally were yelling and screaming through the whole act and then the the local deejay who is sort of emceeing or hosting this concert here came out and yelled them. Scolded them these guys. This came all the way from New York fucking city and you better shut up and listen to them. He went off and then it was dead silence for the rest of the APP suicidal. So did you like that point where you get on the Westwood Comedy Store and I remember in the middle of a sketch. A Guy came him up and said to me from the audience he was drunk and he said. If you don't stop this I'm going to kill you needed. Nobody that was the time of you. Know Sir Drug Humor and you know it was not you know people didn't want to hear and now we take you to a bar somewhere in Manhattan. WanNa see you fucking sketch. They wanted and lewd jokes. Stop this I'm going to kill you. Don't stop this. I'm GONNA kill you. And he was the owner of the club laying the So yes I did all. I did that for like a year or so and then got this auditioned for the Mickey Rooney Sitcom but it was shooting in New York City. And that's what got me back here. And then after that I did my first Broadway show which was A revival speaking of British comedy of Noel Coward's present laughter starring. George C. I Scott Oh my God who directed and starring George C Scott directed that was my Broadway debut. And that's that was a moment where I thought. Oh I remember remember he was. There was the opening night. And we were in the circle in the square theatre on Broadway in there. Yeah there yeah and he was. He was leading Louis Tirade against my character. He was the no coward character. And he's reading me the riot act and and out of the corner of my eye. I could see Tony Randall. Sitting across watching us and he looked delighted by the scene and I was like man Dan. I think I've really made it George. C. Scott is ripping me a new asshole and Tony. Randall is watching. It happened a baby. This is is it this is it. What was George C Scott like man? He was a complicated located tortured. Soul who If you read anything about him but he was very kind to me very very kind. And he sort of eighty-two so he's coming into the later part of the life yes and it was a surprise that he was playing this part and doing no coward he was. He was brilliantly. Funny Actor when you know in comedy and you know he was obviously obviously you look You know he was many different things but he was. He loved me and he was very fatherly. And kind to me. And this was a huge opportunity and the great part and But you know I remember when we did the very first read through. This is different time. You must realize we have. I read through a play and we finished and he said out loud to somebody. You know what I like about this. Cast no fags off so I look at this older character who I know is I'm thinking should we tell him again. Like Mickey Rudy. I don't WanNa ruin his day. Dana Ivey actress who is sitting next to be leaned over and said I'm sure he meant that in a nice way. There's the CO dependency of the theater community. But then he he couldn't and you know and this was by again. It was a play by Noel Coward and he said this but then he was incredibly incredibly generous and sweet to me. And you know I you know to be on stage with him. He was he for all of his faults. offstage stage he was electric on state is one of the great great actors and and so it was a joy to work with him. That's a great baptism into Broadway. Certainly yes and you know and then I I worked with him again. Nine years later we did play called on borrowed time. And how was the old and up Ari not so good. Not could you know we did this. He was a boozy all the way. Through Right Oh oh yeah well. He said in some interview with New York Times when we were doing the play. He's said I'm a functioning alcoholic. Yeah Yeah so so I'll be must have that experience a lot throughout your career where you're working with because I've never talked to somebody who is essentially a you know It probably the most successful Broadway actor working. I mean you've done amazing shows and evil constantly. kept working on Broadway. I don't I know people that have done stage but you are stage guy and is that something that you're happy with I. Ah yes I mean I have. You know I've done other thing. Of course time has gone on. Yeah you know I've I've I've tried to change what what is sort of there was sort of a perception about me by doing more serious thing. I think I like. I am just now when you walked up Mike. That's that's not the same Nathan Lane I grew to know. I thought that you were different. So the change worked. Oh did it. Y- AH maybe it's just Glendale. No I act a little different Glendale but you know the the inner is not a steppingstone it is. Ah You know you never thought it's the greatest right for me. It's not only home right. It's the greatest venue for an actor because you're in control. No one is yelling. Kat and no one is right editing your performance you go from the beginning to the end and and in the theater. I've been allowed to to do things that I've never been allowed to do in film or television right. Rhino Roy Cohn angels in America. You just did that. Righty a a couple of years ago. Yeah I I don't think like early on when you sort of showed up on everybody's radar I. I don't know if it was. I think it was before the I mean. When was the producers was it was probably the birdcage? Don't you think sure. Yeah where everybody's sort of like the lion king the original line right but yes but like as a the birdcage absolutely and that kind of it was. It was an interesting timing for that was sort of an important bit of business that that the movie and yeah I mean look if I had I remember did when I saw it on the upper east side when the the French film. Yeah Look Jeff All all right and and and thinking this is. It's so brilliant. Because it's so subversive in the you know the straight people are the villains the gay people are the heros. Yeah Yeah and and just loved it and Mike Nichols and Elaine may had always wanted to do it and so it was sort of a reunion for them. Look it has had an effect act did have an effect on people and and it was positive for the most part here but it's very mainstream and in many ways it's much less aversive versus than the French film. Sure but Because I think Mike wanted a commercial success but also like to create you know less sympathetic characters for for a judgmental Middle America. Yeah we're deal when you so you. I mean the the scene. The scene at the on the bench when he's run run away from home and Robin shows up and says here would sign this thing. This palimony agreement that you want in a sense he saying my life is yours and your life is my were you is is like a little marriage and and that to me is always the most is my favorite scene in the film because it's And also because it's robin it just brings back so many fond memories but That must've been so fun youtube working together. Well he's just You know such such a a wonderful actor and comic genius and and incredibly sweet generous and kind and and you know could've easily originally originally was supposed to be Steve Martin was supposed to play the part. That Robin play. I can't imagine robin was supposed to play the part I play. Oh really and and then Steve couldn't get out of something and he couldn't do it and then Robin decided he had done Mrs Doubtfire and didn't want to be address again. And he wanted to play the other part. And and then somehow Mike Nichols thought of me. But someone in his Co. Robbins position you would think would have said you know you have to get another movie star right because says you were going out on a limb you want some insurance in that way and So the fact that he was so generous and and One of the great experiences in a sort of an certainly life-changing one in terms of career. And Yeah I. It's so funny because I was just sort of looking the credits a little bit and and I saw iron. We'd and I'm like what was he was one of the ghosts. Yes that's right I got I remember your face Guy Jack. Jack Nicholson threw a rock at my head. Right killed me. Yeah then I had to appear as a ghost with rock sticking out of my head right but I remember your face I actually was and I have my memory so shitty shitty and I'm talking to my producer and I said he was an iron we'd and he's like I don't remember what and I'm like. Oh my God. He was in the ghost. Because I can see you in that part. Oh Wow. Isn't that weird. That is weird because I can't remember a lot of things but I remember you out. Well thank you. I just held the screen there with rock in your head Ah Yeah it's not easy to. That's probably a better movie than I think it is. I remember being a good move. It's not a good movie. 'cause it's it that book is it's all in his head so it doesn't really work so much as a film. The protests over the yeah. The book is Great William Kennedy Book but I they're they're really good but it's really Meryl Streep's performance is is rather remarkable. In that I was it was there that day when she She did that thing in the car in the club where she's She gets up and sings. And you see how it's going ahead and she's singing well and then I sit in cuts back and you see. This is horrible and it was just. It was just heartbreaking. So it's interesting losing to me that like you do have a lot of rain like you just did well. I WanNa talk about angels but you also did F Lee Bailey in the People vs. OJ Yeah which go great. I mean but that no one sees you like that. No I'm yes I mean that's but is that a challenge for you say like this is going to be difficult for me and I wanted to raise the rise to the occasion. What happened? I was doing a musical called the atoms musical revue now. Not a musical revue. This is a real old old blown musical the addams okay and it was reviled by the critics but the audience wanted to see it. Yeah so I was in it for a year and a one point Charles Isherwood who is still then at the New York Times. wrote a piece about me about sort of my whole career and it was a very very flattering complementary piece Basically said I was the last of the great entertainers painter's is how he put it now. That he's not a good actor but this is the whatever he's whatever it is he's been doing for these last thirty years. It was very nice and I was very flattered but there was a part of me that said is you know Peggy. Lee's that older is. Is that what you think all that. That's all I am. It's just an entertainer here and I felt like I. I have more to offer and I. I was also feeling at that point in my life. You know at a bit of a crossroads I could use. I can just do this. I just entertain people. Sure the for the rest of my life and do things that are say on Broadway. This is not that long ago. You're in two thousand ten. The thousand nine to ten right and so I said I wonder if I can change people's perception and so I went off and I did. The ICEMAN Cometh in Chicago with with with Rob Bob Falls. The director and Brian. dennehy is an old friend of mine played the character. Mary Slade yes he is. He's eighty years old and I love and he's available. Yes I remember. When he didn't see that production it must have been pretty weighty? I mean he's like Heaven Denny's heavy yeah actor. Great and he had he had played Hickey years before nine hundred ninety and so he was playing this other character and and and the and I played Hickey. Nikki you know the part robards played way back. Here yeah That sort of established his career. It's a it's a it's like a it's one of those mountains you climb a three we our thing and it was like a five hour. Oh yeah so. It's what separates the men from the boys. And so you so. I went to Chicago when I did this. Play and Yeah and it's it's one of the ultimate challenges this part and I wanted to be scared and I wanted that experience and it was the best thing I could have done for myself. As as an actor. Now how do you prepare for something like that giving that you're one of the great entertainers like what what what is the process. Louis along I had a long period before knowing when I was going to do it. So not only doing research about the play and other productions and and Because the first thing you have to do is shake off the ghost of Jason Robards Brian. Because you can see a minute. There's a video of the nineteen sixty television production that Sydney lamented. So you can actually see him do it. Yeah so if ever seen him do it. It's hard to get that out of your head right. And then I worked for the first time I worked with a coach. You did a great eight coach. Called Larry Moss. 'cause I just couldn't You I needed to talk to someone about it because it's so complex. And what is that. What is that? What's that experience with a coach? which were they tell you? Well it's first. You're asking me Larry Moss is. He's a brilliant acting coach. But it's it's about text analysis and then it's it's also he's you know he's part psychotherapist and cheerleader and also specifically you know discussing the things about the character and where it has to go in and and helping you get there and find it and and your version and so it that was tremendously helpful and and also I was sort of like it was. It'd been a long time since I've been in that position with working with coach Ryan and discussing guessing that way they're going to a different partier emotional thing Yeah I mean certainly I had done plays over the years of the plays of various McNally or ah John Robin Bates and and so forth with plays that. Are you know that have humor but there are. There are there serious roles but this was taking on on. This was like going to you know taking on lear or something it's it's It's a very demanding part when I when I was doing angels and Denzel Denzel Washington was doing it on Broadway playing Hickey. Yeah and he came up to me And he was very sweet and he said He just looked at me and he said you know what I'm going through boat. I sure do was so sweet. Because you're it's part of your part of a small group of men who have played that part It 'cause it's nothing you'll ever be asked in once you've done that everything else seems easy. Wow and then we did it again at at Brooklyn Academy of Music so so is it. It was the beginning of slightly changing people's perception about me because basically I said Oh you think that longer I'm GonNa go over here. I'm going to do this then enough enough things. Fortunately came my way like the two seasons on the good wife and you know Athletes Bailey versus OJ. And then and stuff like that. Play called the Nance and other things that I think eventually led to doing Roy Cohn and angels in America. We did it at the National Theatre in London and then brought it to Broadway so by then. It was I I had I and it's the difficult thing to do because people want you to stay. I was reading an interview with yours. People want you to stay in the box. Whatever box they see you cranky underdog so for example? The thing the reason I'm in La is because I'm doing this new iteration a penny dreadful. It's called City of Angels Angels. John Logan Great Writer Creator of this show wrote this part For me sent me the script out of the blue. I wrote this for you and you're I'm playing this grizzled old Jewish lapd detective who's investigating a murder and also investigating Nazi infiltration of L. A.. And nine hundred takes place in one thousand nine hundred a mini series. This is a a series ten episode series right for showtime cell. He wrote this tremendous part whereof emotional complexity and darkness in and and and I was like no one in Hollywood would ever have given me this point and I said said to him. Why why? Why why me I was very grateful but I I'm curious and he said well I saw you in the iceman cometh and I saw you and angels in America I. Yeah I thought it was time you you did something like this on television. So you know I feel very very grateful and lucky and and it's it's it's been thrilling. Well that's great because like I'm thinking about it as you're telling me as an actor as someone who's known as a stage actor which is a good thing you know for you to sort of like you know. Use Your chops differently as an actor who's so established and respected. It's different than if you were stuck on a series for eight years and then had to do it right. Do you know what I know. Yeah sure I remember when Kelsey grammer came to New York and he did The Scottish play did Macbeth. Yeah and I just after doing frazier for so long. And he's a wonderful actor but I thought you need to transition transition been frazier for so long then it's going to be hard and it didn't go so well and I thought you know. Gosh Yeah so you have to sort of you know. And that's really the gift though of of being Mike of like having such a full life in the stage that you know somehow or another. You're fortunate not only being graded that but not making the decision to get stuck on a series for a fucking decade. Well I mean look. There were certainly times when I would happily happily have been here doing series. I came in and did them but they never lasted well in a way. Yeah Yeah Way. Thank God yeah you know But because I was the theater just allows you to. Also the wealth of material happening happening keeps going and I. Unfortunately it's the only place where I have a lil little bitter clout to say. Would you like to do this. I have an idea about doing this or that or you might get some people that exactly. Have you done that with things. Sure let's do. Let's well you know. Like Scott Rudin is is is a very old friend and so we've done a few things together or you did that. The tightest thing write the sequel to titus. Yeah that's a whole other. podcast is is not learned. We did For example we did the front page He said what do you WANNA do. The that's the show that just embarrassed myself out. There was a the the show that based on the movie. Yeah sure yeah the front page. The show vase movie that it is now it used to now. It is shows based on move who've movies based on show. Yes but that was you in Ruben. Yes and he said what do you want to do. And I said the in the front page which was sort of daring. Because it's like twenty twenty five I people and why that play you know your guy with cloud. It's one of the greatest plays ever written. Okay now I now I would tell you. It's it is the the classic American comedy but it's there was nothing before it are after the that's ever been like it right and it's it's hard to do well and it's in the character Walter. Burns is one of the greatest parts I've written and has it. Has Maybe the greatest last line to a play Britain. which is there's a long set up but the last line it doesn't matter there's a long sat up and you think it's going one way you think he's done something really sweet? He's the most horrible arable human being you could imagine. I love playing those guys and he picks up the phone and he he's calling the police pick up hillary the reporter and stop them from getting he married a and then and and 'cause he's given him his watch as a sentimental gesture and so and he's very touched by they leave then he calls up and tells the guy to call the police because the last line is the son of a bitch stole my watch. Yep Big laugh at horrible sad huge huge last year oh it was the thrill real was audiences who remembered fondly or knew it was coming or people who didn't know it was coming in were shocked at like roared roar of laughter that that line gets that at this this piece of machinery that they built. Yeah you know. And this character was based on the this their real life editor there that Charles the MacArthur worked for who famously fell. He slipped and fell on a spike and lost it. I had a glass off and and Charles Macarthur said you could tell which was the glass I because it was the warmer. Yeah so anyway. It's just one of my favorite replacing an hadn't been done in a very long time. They had been done like in the eighties. Jerry zaks directed a very successful year. Five John Lithgow and Richard Thomas and so lied. I just wanted to play that part. I wanted to be the guy who on stage. You've got to say the son of a bitch stole my watch and I did and it was it was. I can't tell you how thrilling when when you got to it. That was the big John. Goodman the Great John Goodman was in it John slattery. I wish I was like I think if I lived in New York I would see more place show you what would make you. Yeah I would have to. Yeah I 'cause I do like to go but I don't go here. Well it's the great. It's the go and I go to New York Times route. and He sends me to place Bruton. Yeah you're you're oh you're friends with him now. I don't know if we're friends but like he's taken a liking to me and he cooks my show sometimes. Oh any Baker. I think the first time you were pitched was probably ruin. Oh Yeah Yeah. Because he'll write us and be like endure. Do you know any baker stuff. I'm like I don't and like all of a sudden I'm going Andy Baker show because he him. I talked to George Wolf Stephen Karam. Wow all of them because Scott was like you should talk to these people and that sort of been my eventually. You'll do what man Xiao he'll do. I wanted to interview him but it just hasn't. It hasn't happened. Oh Oh he's he's got some stories. Tell and vice versa. Yeah but so. The producers in the producers was like in my memory. Only because I'm not so locked in that changed Broadway. Well I don't know about that. The producers was revitalize is it make it through the producers was like a Zeitgeist hit the producers came along at just the right time after many years of depressing British this musical lay medicine and Miss Saigon and it was all the emphasis was on comedy. Musical Comedy Yeah and and Ah you know it was. Also tied into the revival of Mel Brooks's career was sort of out of favor for a long time and then he put this thing thing together and and and and it works. It was it was just one of those times when all the right people came together which which has to happen in a musical Michael Right because there are so many people involved at all has to seem like it's coming from the one voice one original voice certainly mel and the fact that everyone did did a working at the top of their game and we went to Chicago and opened it and it was like from the first performance. It was ridiculous how much they liked it like Matthew said they even like the bad stuff they wanna stay for another hour and he and I I said but this is like cult film. Lovers here loved the movie and wanted to see. I said a won't be like this tomorrow and then it was exactly like that really it even more. It was like they were so hungry for that kind of madness and and that it was all about the comedy yes so much about the common. Yeah the Museum of Comedy Right. Yeah yeah so it was also a was matthew and I who had known each other. We've done voices in the original Lion King and And he and but we he had this is really our first time working together and and so we and that's really how we became friends. Yeah well he's done a lot of stage work. Yeah sure yeah and so we you know that that became a part of the show really that sort of the friendship and love of these two guys. Is You know one sort of looking. After the other and right you know taking him under his corrupt wing but so all of that combined it was it was. I've I've never called. Everyone should have that experience. I've never experienced anything where they couldn't get enough of it. Hey everybody loved it and then eventually of course. There's a backlash it wasn't that good but was did that happen. Sure that always happens if something. Is that popular eventually. Actually turn on me thinking. What will we wake up or you know? And they have to pay the hooker. What's happening? This was not I was so in love earlier but yeah it seems to change things somehow revitalize the musical. I don't know what I'm sure that it an up ticket prices and and That was one thing. And then it's you know I think it it led certainly lead to Some other shows like slab lot or yeah. Yeah Yeah right but that. What kind of comedies? You have fun working with Mel. How much does he spend time? I interviewed him years ago and it was the greatest thing. Yes in great thing that was I can only imagine now always the most entertaining human being in the world and and know to get to work with him that closely and getting to know him and and and an Bancroft. And you know those times together and I'll always remember and and yet to have lived through that and the whole experience. It was very bonding experience. And he was You know we had we just so many laps. And then he tried with young Frankenstein. Consigned to yes. Then there was young Frankenstein network. It didn't work as well and also it's hard to follow something like the produce. Sure but I just wondering if it if it did work at all it. It didn't it didn't and it was very expensive. Do and but he then recently. When I was in London doing angels in America he came and they did a new version of young Frankenstein? Sort of a streamlined blinds version. Where they cuddle away a lot of the fat and he wrote like two or three new numbers and was huge success in the West? End or worth. Yeah because I think it always bothered him that it. It didn't do so well on Broadway but it was a big hit in London. So tell me about taking on angels because I think I saw the original cast of that and and what's his name who played Cohen in the wrong lead meal. Even like I just remember was almost spraying spit. It was like a wild dying animal right. How'd you do it awesome? Wow this is like a conversation of Thanksgiving with an aunt. Can't how does your little just doing little to give me a little ride calling You know it's look it's it's one of the the greatest his plays of the twentieth century and one of the greatest parts of written. It's a it's a gift. Yeah it's a real gift. So how'd you approach. I guess maybe I was just being too well. I don't usually ask questions like that but again I didn't get to see you see you in it right and like he's a real here it it's on. We did audio recording of it. Yeah Andrew Garfield the whole cast. Did it it's How do you approach it? Well you know it's a lot of research because it's a real a person right and you know you try to talk to some people who knew him. I tried to talk to you Madam No but you you you know. Oh It's easy to find people who hated him. Most people hated and But I I talked to a few people who were friends who who were very loyal L. to him and loved him and wanted to hear about that. There's there's only one real visit you know. He wrote an autobiography which is hilarious. But there's a the the only real book is This biography citizen Cohn and the first chapter is literally about the two last years of his life. which is when the play is happening when and he's gotten the AIDS diagnosis and there was a lot of interesting stuff in that especially like hospital reports about his behavior in the hospital and his what he was going going through physically and I thought they were especially in in Perestroika which is when he's in the hospital and his his disintegration? I felt there was a a more interesting way of showing that of seeing him. You know this guy fighting for his life we are very end and seeing him slowly falling apart so that in some of it was informed by some of what I had read which was like there was a tremor he had a he developed a tremor and he used his hold his hand to keep but from shaking because he wanted to control everything but it kept coming back and sometimes you being the other hand so that was something I used. It was affecting his voice so so I thought so at a certain point My voice I changed my voice. A bit you saw there was weakening and And then you and you know then he would have these full body tremors which really awful to watch and and So that was a part of it you know. Essentially you know those guys when you play those kinds of monsters you know. Obviously they don't think of themselves that way thing he he thinks he's doing the right thing and he believes fully what he's doing but it's just it's ultimately. It's Tony's play the language of that play. You you Eddie actor worth assault you you would rise to the occasion because it takes you places. You never thought you'd go. And it's it so brilliantly written it's inspiring they mean every when we would have do these You know the one play is three and a half hours. The other is four hours here. So when you working like that. And it's beautifully The architecture of that part is you do get plenty of breaks as opposed to Andrew Garfield who was like on for most of the time But you you know you always you. Couldn't I couldn't wait to do it again too. Because the you know the scene in the doctor's office when he tells him he's not you know he he couldn't possibly they have AIDS because he's not gay and the extraordinary piece of writing. What are the greatest teens ever written here? You know you just couldn't wait to get to do it again. Right eight and find something else. Who Do it another way try? I would Jesus that scene. You know it was always the most I. It was an interestingly. I always thought it was the most challenging ultimately you you have to play the human being played the guy who was little Jewish prince who was told he was the most important person in the world and and who realized is two things that he could never be allow himself to be vulnerable or to be seen as different from a very early age. He had an uncle who went to jail. Uncle Bernie Ernie was was went to jail and then just the notion of being different of being gay. No one could ever know that. What was your experience with that? That is a kid. When did you know when did I know yeah? My mother took me to see a movie called the Yellow Rolls Rolls Royce. How are you good? I feel like all I ever say. I was eleven nine nine. Let's say nine. How all night? And this was one of those big blue movies with an international cast. It was written by Terence Rattigan and it was directed by Anthony. Asquith Rex Harrison. Jeanne Moreau and Shirley Louis mclane George C.. Scott was playing a gangster. Yeah it was a stretch and all these great actors Ingrid Bergman Omar Sharif. He always dropped by an international cast corey. So but in this Vignette it was it was was an you know one of those movies. There was like three vignettes is all around this yellow Rolls Royces on and then they would tell a different story So Shirley maclaine left in Italy with art. Carney George C Scott's henchman and he has to go back to Chicago and kill somebody so oh she's there for a few days in Italy and there's a an Italian photographer played by Elaine Dolan. The French who is at his most most beautiful At one point they he takes Shirley maclaine to a there's a cove and there's you know there's water and they they go swimming and he's he's in a little bathing soden in. It's all very sexy. And then they get in the back of the Rolls Royce and neo. She pulls down a shade and Art. Carney realizes stuff is going on. Yeah and I just remember feeling getting weird feeling in my stomach when I saw L. A.. Delong he was all wet. Yeah Yeah and there was something about out. He was so beautiful that he was so wet that he was in this little speedo and I was like why am I feeling like that. Ah Shirley Maclean I love Shirley maclaine. I'm so comfortable with Shirley but he's making very nervous. This guy by French guy. Maybe it's French. People make me nervous. That was so that was sort of a sign that I different from the other boy. It was always remember and then there was. You know I sort of a struggle though. They laughed all when I now now now now I had a very early abandoned Catholicism was I didn't interest me you know is a religion based on fear hypocrisy and you know and and child-molestation ter- Centuries of it. Yeah Yeah so No it was I. I was living home my mother I was doing a little better. I was twenty one. I was GONNA move to New York. This in seventy seven I had met someone and relationship developed in. I was good move in New York also so to be closer to him here. Maybe we were to live together. Some so I and I had she I hadn't dated I. I hadn't taken it in high school and I had. I didn't really date. I dated a couple of days with women and it just didn't work out and so I remember one woman woman stood me up and they might remember my brother. My brother felt so sad and I was like Oh this is just not going my way right. Maybe there's maybe it's another gender so So they didn't so no no no no no. They didn't know so. Then I I I had never had we my mother and I because of all the things. We've been through together with because of her illness. I never lied to her. And I told for that I she knew I was seeing someone in New York and I and and I told her it was a A girl because I didn't want her to be upset and then but before right left the night before I left I sat down and I said I have to understand Jesus little she's been through a lot he's little Irish Catholic lady very conservative. Yeah right yeah. Her life is not gone so well and she I said I know you think I've been seeing girl. I've been I've been seeing a guy back and she she was sitting on. The Guy can still see her sitting on a couch in her. You know she. She went Pale and she said you mean you're homosexual sexual and I said I myself had really thought about it. I said Yeah I guess so and she said ahead oh I I would rather you were dead and I and I said I. I knew you'd understand so so. Of course that was always you know that was the worst of it you know she never. It wasn't like she was some no of course Choi warm up to it. Well Yeah I mean sure I think you know really shy. She always would have preferred right. I was straight and married but she certainly met Any of the major relationships I had she met those people you know and and She was Nice yes she was our Yeah no there was one in particular. I remember her I was getting in the portrait. Sardis road reactors right aft passenger here you know and I was dating at the time A modern dancer Rather handsome fellow and and I introduced him into her there the first time she met and she he went to get a drink. She looked at me and she said I believe good. Hey look look at the progress. We've made Ed. Yeah but now you've even you you're married now married yes. Is that exciting. That good sure after bill. Yes it's a great great best decision I ever made. How long have you been with? Well we've been together a very right time like twenty years but we've been married three years three years and what was it that made you decide to get married curiosity. 'cause I've been married twice and I don't think I'm going to do it again. Okay I have no kids so I understand. Okay I understand. Yeah I think neither one of us you know it was all for yes. Yes if they WANNA get married get married for it will go to the rally but I you know in either one of his head any interest in getting married right honestly and and then a few years ago it we were talking about it. And and then We fell like yeah. I would like to marry you. And then it was but but we don't want one of those big weddings and exchanging vows and all of that you know gay shit. I don't WanNa get all gay about it. I just want to marry you you right so we so we went to City Hall. You know the the irony is that we were the witnesses at Mike and Jen's wedding at City Hall Mike Per bigly or yeah he He called us like at home and said The two people who are supposed to show up. He's two friends. He always has their exotic names like taller. May and you know that was like Ptolemy was one of the Ptolemaic and plutarch couldn't make it can you come and so we were like yeah sure and it was like in July. Of course we're gay so we put on suits we get all dressed up and down there and they are in shorts and a tee shirt you know and it's it's really hot and so we get on a line you know there's a long line to get get get set up to go to the chapel and chapel something like it didn't work and they'll you and so we remember Mike saying oh I you know I said well maybe the ladies will recognize me and he said I don't want any special treatment I said that's all I want is special treatment. The only reason I live is that maybe I'll get some special treatment freak so she did recognize we they went right in and then we laughed and they went out and had pizza went to see a movie so so we asked them to be art art witnesses and then we got in there and they end and you know if from a cynical old soul you know i. Ah You started. Say these words that you know you've heard in a million movies and TV shows and and Do you take that business. Well what which. which word take this man? Well the whole thing yeah you know and and it just to say it and then suddenly it was I just fell apart. You know I just I could barely speak it was so emotional and And and my husband is you know he's he. He tends to keep that all inside so he it was just sort of smiling at me. Yeah but it was incredibly moving and meaningful and then it's just a little. It's not like anything drastically changes changes but it's it just it's it's it's certainly you feel that you know just saying husband or yeah you know it. Just it is it's incredibly meaningful and so it was. It was great that we were able to do it. And and that and and what it's meant well. That's that's beautiful. Congratulations thank you very much is great talking to you. It was great talking to you yet are really great rate. Talk Career Todd. Well it was. I had a great time. Yeah I got a little maddening. 'CAUSE I didn't know enough about theater AM I. I get mad at anyone who doesn't know enough. I'M GONNA try educate myself I'm GonNa maybe that's this is You know the attention moment is they. I think that now that my time is loosened up. Maybe I have a little money. If there's some good shot down by your ticket I'll I'm saying I'll fly in. Yeah all see. Some theater will be one of those guys. I'm going to do death of a salesman. You know you are in two thousand twenty one. I would see I saw the Arthur Miller play recently with Tracy Letts 'cause I I know all my son's yeah. Yeah yeah yeah terrific. I thought that was a good play. A It was his first big success. I didn't know the place didn't know that's what's great about being this dumb. Is that like I can go watch all my sons and I don't know what's going to happen at the end that's right that is great. Come see you and death of a salesman all right all right thanks for talking. Thank you great talk. I was so happy. Nathan came by truly good guy and don't forget folks if you can't get enough of. HBO's be as watchman you can go deeper inside the critically. Acclaimed new series. With the official watchmen. podcast hosted by watchmen executive producer and writer Damon Lindelof and impre Mazen the creator of Noble. The new podcast explores narrative choices uncovers Easter eggs and examined these shows connection to the groundbreaking in graphic novel. Stream watchmen now and catch new episodes Sundays at nine pm only on. Hbo All Right. So I'll keep you in the loop and I'm not I don't have any music. I do have a guitar but it would be tricky. I borrowed a guitar that you have to return to the guy. A friend of mine books comedy gear at Lincoln w went news will guitar. You have to go on guitar for a couple of weeks and now got figure out how to get back to him. But I think we've got a plan who's going to the drop guitar. Drop in the way. The dubliner okay. boomer lives

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FIRE EYED DEMONS & SHADOW MEN! - LISTENER STORIES!!

We Need To Talk About Ghosts

30:46 min | 1 year ago

FIRE EYED DEMONS & SHADOW MEN! - LISTENER STORIES!!

"<music> from a girl talk about goals with governors <music>. Hello hello and the saturday yes. What's a strange day well. It's not strange day. Just not the usual sunday but that's okay. It's a weekend so that schools are are. It's it's like ninety. Something degrees here on the paul and all the windows open and just in a pair of short woodward and it's bacon hot. I do hope you're all well you all will. Oh please shout in unison now. Ooh that was a good noise yet. It's too hot to even think so. I'm not gonna you're gonna sit here and <hes> yeah you know thoughts just heat now. I'm joking of course. We've got so much to get through on this podcast a plethora of stories. If this podcast were a sandwich it would be a mighty club sandwich or something. I don't know someone just well enough to make judgments on but just imagine like a scooby doo some which would be the and i am a ghost dressed. I'm secretly ababba but i'm dressed as a ghost and you will uncover me. Stop talking. Bollocks can anyway here. We go so loads to go through and thank you so much for all the stories that you've sent in to talk about bucko hotmail dot com they have been billiant and i will read them all out. Yes i will 'cause. That's the point of the show kevin yes it is you can also get us on twitter. Also send your stories into that email dress sock about costa hotmail dot com. You can focus on the twitter at talk about ghosts. You can get on instagram. <hes> all the usual places go and join the facebook group. That's growing daily which is a lovely thing think lots of nice community. There's a nice community in the sharing load little pictures and stories. It's very cold very lovely very spooky so what's going on in our lives where oh oh we've had loads going on this week. <hes> i don the flower show last week. That was fun. You can read into might let me see we can see that most custody thought was fun now and if you go to for bekker's grandma which was very very sad but very lovely as well 'cause he looks at the ripe old age of ninety eight and he was a great man. Yes enough on that so i do hope that everything's going swimmingly for you. I also recorded the amazing thing. I can't yet diversity information about on monday. Let me just say i spoke to one of the biggest pastors in the world and that should hopefully become out soon and it was a great shot on the role of the bloke more details on that later <hes> anyway. We need to just get right into this because we've got a lot to go over and don't forget this time this very time. I'm going to try and do thing mentioned last week where we make the end story very rarely rarely rarely scary of everyone that submitted so will your story chosen. Let's see oh what a joy for your is so yeah without further ado colette crack right in with the stories now offense story. Today is coming from nathan roche. I think rose you might be russia or russia and he sent in two stories which we're going to read out. Interestingly also sent me an email today asking specifically if i can read them out in his home town accent yes clearly lily a sucker for punishment because glutton for punishment even because he's from birmingham all hello yes. Yes eh becker everyone. I've got story for you gone. I'll be really yeah. Ah okay so you'll like this. It's like a parent only story love so into the show so today the stations it just like a normal. I check on the woman who is doing it. She's just like a bit like mother earth a long skirt yeah yeah yeah exactly am unless she's doing. She's looking at me like a bit weird throw right. I don't think he'll like why she can't really thought i'm like checking out birth and still like what what she um anyway. She's estimate that and she said listen people. Take this in different ways so you know i hope you don't mind me saying chappel. You're gonna stop in premonitions in a couple of months and i was like right. Just enough stations and tom and she said she said bill betray you can you can rely on them. It will often and she said bought it will only be the case for a year and you lose it after year and i was like right anyway. Sends out with twenty twenty vision was not sucked. I i oh my yeah yeah. That's flavor story year balanced. Give you that much not the harsh serious investigation is the power normally and you'll bouncing him with the truck engines myself that you make that education all week. You really need to get useful mates only tell you this haven't ho alitalia battery of your wash suspicions. Where was this new in the opticians in town specific. There's twelve of them. Well thank you for completely ribbon the star of the show with a bully joke. I've got a paranormal tale a right 'cause yeah. I don't really know why you weren't just onto instantly. Remind me to do something equal for you. One time it'll come in with your work and just fart all. That's the equivalent lynch all that makes us. Both the fault open the car. You never know i'll wait till we go. Well okay yeah yeah. It is quite gross. Well thank you for that fact. While you hear yeah actually pay me for the godawful joke. Pay me frankly for entertainment. I will tell you this is your payments. I got go story story here and you know you go story well. <hes> this gentleman has emailed his name's nathan nathan roche or russia a- and he's actually said he sent me an email. You sent it in last week but is any melon today and he's asked if i can do the accent and he's from birmingham. We want me to read it in an accents coming home you booming birmingham. This is actually better than right. Okay then you can read it. We've never had this before on the podcast. He's what is your observations. Yes okay. I'll go yeah so i just i like you. You drunk now. I think i knew i think you think you could do accent very well. Right okay. Fair enough won't be really good. I think it'd be better than nothing to scottish trying to do. It's going being nightmare for those americans. Listen to birmingham is in west midlands of england under so look do anything you couldn't point to the emma i could google mattress banning points right on. That's the story start with a story one in fact now. We'll do a little bit of an intro you can do. Let me see right. Okay you can read the top paragraph outage well in birmingham so this is nathan official voice. Everyone sorry nathan. I'm sorry about this season. Holy cow have recently started listening to your forecast when you it's all right but i'm gonna fall in on this is a scary story this hoax and of cour- within a few days of two stories if you wouldn't mind reading reading them cheers nathan doesn't sound that dense julius knifing put more on on dial choose knife on <music>. I'm sorry i didn't specify the level of intelligence i should be the opposite should be when you start at this age. I only know one yokel embedding alexa. I've got a repertoire birmingham. Oxen's name the streets over russia but i want to give this story <hes> <hes> the prestige and respect it deserves story one but this is a personal story for me of something experienced experienced and colin seems to explain exactly what happened. It happened at my old workplace which is a fish warehouse. There were three of his work in those day. Operatives in georgia was was cleaning and stock rotation job stock rotation. Yes okay so we gotta crack on on saturday. There would only be two was working stood stood with a friend only worked mendonca freud. I we started cleaning the whereas nova saas ideology always deep clean the food preparation room in which we had to turn off all electronics annex in the room wine styles radios etc when almost all jobs were done. It was more friends to answer leave. It was part time to work until two whereas on saturday to stay onto our finished. An all delivery door was what you like telling stories the only excellent tony that's build in the background granola job as i sat down to start the paperwork realize nationhood me though i was singing along to the music on the radio on all the time in the prep room except that's that's an important point because no radio saturday on saturdays when we were all electronic so i think in that more friend more put the radio radio back in the room or got out in the office and walks into the prep room to see what was going on as all go into the room there was complete silence whereas a minute ago arkady the radio jio clear as day award beco- the room and everything was still silent something i could never explain oh so what you make of that then in a number of accidents so i say not to doubt you nathan astle given the the lodge amount of specifics that we heard earlier with you. Friends friends working shift patterns and the <unk> three kids and whatnot. I'm surprised that you didn't mention what song you could hear on the radio. I'm that's what you pick an yes. That's pathetic. Well you right now. You sent a second story in and i'm going to read this and then you can send so. You can listen intently like i did with you. Think of this story and i'll do it. Does we requested so we can see which who's got the best accent malia worry now because i'm telling you well. I think the boat's going to be offensive. Okay so story to a sorry story. Have this isn't gonna moyo soot was told to me a few years ago my dad where my age and when he was malaya age twenty two he worked as a not poor to renew restaurant having to clean and lockup all when all jobs but finished alive worries. I'm finding a month into this job. He still inexperienced in strange. Cocoons is such he turned off the lights to leave the lights would turn themselves back on the old on let me read that properly such as he turned off off the lights to leave and the lighter timber com which became a normal thing that we continue to happen for a few weeks but then one time was different as when he began to lock up and switch. It's the lights off. There was a massive crashing noise. Coming from the main dining hall switched on the lloyd's to find all the tables and chairs had been knocked over. We cutlery three all over the floor. After this shift more data come into work the next day with questions about what happened he has management and they intended to make sugar. He ath- management explained that most of the night of that they had employed had the same thing. A former naipaul had the job to lock up concern the former food ahead job to larkhall. She was a middle aged female woman wisconsin clean after the bena party though that night she came into the main hold where she found a group of men still drinking she told the men that yet to clean up and the men should leave as it was closed in time the mango extremely aggressive towards the woman and ended up raping and killing. I can't do that winning winning culinary. No no. I don't mean a car. It's not it's not acceptable to do anyway. So oh the managing buddy al nathan the managing went on to say their her spirit goes onto haunt the restaurants and takes an exceptional disliking to men and we'll tend to get extremely stream the aggressive surrey if this is a bit long winded but i hope you like the story of the police cars keep it up is email. Today says hi kevin again just a quick one as well come from the black county or black country which is what they call midland's home of the mighty british strong strong style who has a trio of restless in the u._k. Or bloody amazing was just wondering if you could tell my story and a burmese slash black country accent because i think it'd be good to hear scouser attempt to burma accent so there you go with the exception of rape and murder part. That was all pretty good. Yes sorry about the accident nathan. I don't think that went as well as you hoped it would know didn't and i do hope listeners are able to extrapolate the actual scariness of the story aside from these two austin wali's story. Sadly i mean it was all well and good and mike jacobson banter eight panzer just japes and stuff and scary scary scary and then throws no random reaper murderer. No one needs that the thomas anyway you know this isn't a co hosts a podcast as to so fuck off. I'm joking. I'm sure you have many things. What are you doing right now making salt deficits salt and pepper sausage roll specialty. I'm why are you doing them. We're going to we're going to your sister's barbecue and people like them and they haven't tried them yet but they do usually get quite a good response so much so that we've started referred to them as has crook roles yes which completely just like is a schneider comment to anyone who's actually suffering with addiction to drugs but yet they are addictive as crack. Your advised insensitive honestly blame you. I'm confined. I wasn't even going to really think it's offensive and i think you should apologise. I think you should apologise. Be yours right i. I'm gonna leave it then consider being over shipping all l. apologize properly later. That sounds rude. Apologize rapley late at all right okay. Thank you okay well. Thank you for your contribution to the. I'm sure nathan really appreciate that. You login accent look next time. You won't be scorned the podcast after that i'll be an interesting conversation it wouldn't be that's a good point. Okay please come back not some sometime soon not in the next. Few episodes think we've had enough. I have maybe except october will combat in october by thanks becca bekka. They're helping us out with story email even number one that was scary. It wasn't both in attempt of impressions and in content. Thank you nathan don't forget if you've got a story like nathan's. It doesn't have to be read out in the accent and as you can tell by that it's probably best if it's not you can email it over to talk about ghosts at hotmail dot com and i will put your it to death. How does that sound appealing good. Okay well that went on longer than than expected youtube. Miss rebecca's intervention so i think it's time for amid points hurrah <hes> disappointing. I didn't make yourself. This is a genuine solomon youtube punk janice potty. Yeah eh this. We like to party. Yes he war orest party pants now. I don't think you can get any better than that. Boaz pardon blessed midpoint. Well is just getting worse and worse and but i love it. I've got a fascination with german party zone. Yeah i do yeah anyway. It's the midpoint rob. I do hope that you've enjoyed those. I know i have yet. Don't get cindy. Stories talk about ghosts at hotmail dot com get us on the twitter at talk about ghosts and indeed we need to let let we need to let the dog wolf off. We need to speak to some patrons now. Yes we've had some patrons sign up. I'm gonna sing lendings out as we like to do in the mid point. If you wanna become a patron and get your song you'll get your your name sunguard by more than over the patriot dot com forward slash. We need to talk about ghosts and there you can sign up and join all the other guys that are already over there. Enjoying bonus shows free content and all that other jazz so yeah just refinished gordon patriotic episode number two skin walkers and hers a little look at what you'll be missing out if you don't sign on the lift your feet while i hoover because they're a cockney uh-huh every body it's me again david bowie with my modern ghosts bell okay. Let's crack on with our askin war car people investigation type thing. We were overcome with a strange feeling of wanting to help inevitably feel like i want to help. What a strange feeling feeling. What this altruism you say interesting a wolf and evan go. Yes you do believe your wealth which is in the u._k. But don't they go and i'll just turn into k. Order the more like <hes>. That's makeup by so there you go. That's a sort of nonsense you can expect. If you go to page on dot com slash we need talk about ghosts and joey. Yes join join people such as though one defoe the gay like full josh cau- aw up shooting that say let's name her a oh yes josh konta as sign up luigi aboard the second moore of the very exclusive we saw <music> that means he'll get his name out and also because as a producer of patriots tai-bo patriot producer usa just they you go josh that's for you. One of our new patron produces yes josh carter member of the region about you can go over to pitch on dot com folks. We need to talk about gordon. I will put your name by the media off. Song has <music> become so now it's time for the scary point of the show and even though maybe in the one thousand nine hundred degrees outside and it's a bloody bloody heart day jesus tonight it's hot. We are still going to get scared so pose this and listen to her at night. 'cause i four stories only little but i think that adds to the authenticity sentence by the beautifully named curtis circles and they're not they're anything but subtle. I tell you now into these. These are scary so it's open gambit says hey curve left the podcast. I've got a few stories from from my family for you. If you'd like to use them yes i would bear with me because i soak it writing in a mostly going to paste a few stories from toll from grandma slash grandpa and uncle the pretty short short but feel free to clean them up if you wish no mostly related by my aunt since my grandma's socks at typing a computers. This is all very authentic. I really like this so prepared to be scared her. We gun story one and they're short but listen. It's the listening aspect which makes it all the more scary. I believe number one so number one. He says i've said that land. He saw a lady in white in the pine trees out behind our house. He wins out. That's it's look for him with a flashlight but couldn't find her. The next day we were all leaving to go somewhere into town and we're getting in the car and missy my my mom looked back up to the house and said look at the curtin moving. She's up there in the attic chopin sweet story number two when mom and dad in brackets my grandma and grandpa because remember this is right in this i got married they we're staying with grandma and grandpa as in his great grandma and grandpa in kentucky and they had a dog tied up outback and they hit him yelping embarking then they isolate out their mom got to look out the window and the three figures were dressed in white to black and their eyeballs with made of fire now he leaves that short and sweet jesus where that's terrifying. Oh my god curtis unions consulates. Get your anti on the phone and say hello in other words users say under fire moving on no. We need more detail afraid but i was scary. These i compete to that very well. It's probably my brilliant narration. I just number three one night moment that again brackets grandma and grandpa had a guest stay over over and the next morning at breakfast. He asked what sorts of cat they had an where it was we said moment that don't have a cat he said you most because it claude me good last night or they're in the attic and he pulled the chateau and sure enough. He was scratched all over the same house one day. There was a little boy riding. A bicycle came to the house to sell cookies a moment in the back to get cash from kitchen bacon grease count and she had the little boy scream and run out the front door. She ran after him and he said the same thing that a cat must've attacked him because he had scratches and blood all over for his legs but again. They never had a cat. Grandpa hated cuts. This is an old house on rue fifty in albany ohio. Oh oh hi that's bloody horrible and we continue with this fourth and final terrifying story. The one where my uncle donald was driving for waste management and he said he had to empty at he adds he had to empty a big trash container and right up by hardee's which is a fast food place and we don't have it in the u._k. Before we got to the highway there was a woman standing out on the side of the road how the old wrestling and she was holding flowers when he drove by he looked in the review and she turned her whole head around on her body but never turned her body around and i'm what stem until he got out of sight. Donald was so scared he didn't wanna get out to dump the trash container sorry. They're a little bit fragmented but i certainly got the chills listening to these. I bet you did use them. If you want. I just have just wanted to share with you. Hope athens well with you back. After this from becker except for as buttoning butchering regional accents kansas those stories are absolutely phenomenal now and can you send us in more detail if they're from your onsite anti saito at all. We need more than camman. Don't just say the is made of fire anyway on with the dishes known we need more than a few stories as good as the scariest stories this send them in to talk about goes hotmail dot com you know the address by now cinema nova okay. We've got a few more emails and we've had one in get onto into this. This email comes in from a d. baretta now. It's actually barbara's sister. You remember barbara. Goodall barbara stabbing ears well well. She says you remember from the spooky apartment stories which featured the easter bunny yes we do that was terrifying. I also want to share some stories with you about her creepy apartment armament. Yes i believe she and i are spook magnets law. She says that's not long. That's rubbish that terrifying for life. You need to run away. Get a breach. Go young prescheduled priest east okay. She says i have had a lot capitals of spooky. Things happen to me. Every time i visited there the very first time i stepped into her apartment. Something felt off. I rationalized. It was a very old building. She and i were going to explore some shops on the boulevard so we locked up the windows facing the street. This was the living room she says among about our business upon we found the windows were all open could have been the wind. We said another time. I was staying overnight. I was sitting on the sofa the living room that evening when out of the corner of my eye i thought i saw something. Bob wasn't in the room so i thought it was returning to the living room at snacks. I turned my ahead and to my surprise so the shadowy form of a woman she appeared to be of victorian era and she was wearing a huge hat and now you're probably wondering how i did use this so i i will tell you that i studied fashion history in college so they're having she didn't say though so that the ghost became known as the matriarch that is an amazingly terrify name for any ghost you will hear more about in the future she says now. I hope that's not a threat but i have asked to come back to me with more stories on this major aquaman because that's certifying. She goes listen to say there were other spooks as well like the little boo hoo look through the dining room window to be honest. I never actually saw him but his presence was definitely felt like someone. Who's peering straight at. You are practically quickly run through the room through that room at night. I hated a dining room because see to have the most activity. I'm not setting how many spirits still reside in that building. There were several that i know of two of my stories are truly terrifying. I kid you not. I just wanted to give you a taste of my experiences. In this letter i hope the scripture out deborah baretta writer but a name daba dab on it but anyway these two stories that you allude to debra if you'd be so kind as to send them on and i will gladly put at the end of the show where all spooky stories go. I'll go today them. Thank you deborah. We've also had some great stories sent an email sent in by beck's andrew. Do one of our patrons and someone called anonima. We'll get to them next week. So thank you for sending them in but we thought we'd end whether he's saying we it's just me and the residents spirits we thought we'd end with a nice little terrifying story but just come in from ashland now avon it's from island and she absolutely hates my accents and we'll go onto that in a minute stories bloody amazing so this is able to email it might be eileen as well sorry in her name's ames an irish name e h l l i n now we've actually in the family with the same name we pronounce some alien but some people do call riley so it could be either but we'll go with avon enabling says dear kevin i can. I say that your podcast is the capital letters. Best effing wants weather podcast podcast ever capitals. You absolutely rock so she's gonna put me estimation already second. I'm not entirely sure my stories paranormal but want to see what you think that seat seat as a child. I saw the terrible recurring nightmares one in particular. I had the most in my dream. I wake up and need the lou i would lie in bed. Being terrified defied as i knew what was about to happen. I get up and walk to the bathroom door. As i open the door and look out of the frosted window i can see a black figure standing outside the window looking in. I just picked that sarah fine. I'm so scared at this point. I decide to forget about golden toilet and instead walked down the hall towards a sitting room living room or whatever again i'm really scared as i know what's about to happen. I get to the door and opened it. Slowly as i look in the light is on so i can see the room perfectly on the sofa. There's a person sitting looking at me but it's a shadow man. His body is so black and swear it almost looks like a void than i wake up that is one of the most terrifying descriptions of shadow monarch kevin is ever heard this kevin saying this now that is horrible borough chevron and ninety degrees nice nicer evelyn but here's the thing i always thought that was a dream until about seven years ago when they discovered paranormal podcasts and started hearing stories about shadow people i couldn't believe or the people were seeing the same thing from my dream in real life so i wonder was it just a dream or memory that turned into a might nightmare who knows i yeah i know and it's the devil. I don't know that for sure. Thanks for all that. You didn't feel free to sing my song about my name. I do that for patrons. I'll do a raptiors avon. That's as far as got to get to ride the more points. If you get the pronunciation right well i say all island. She says p._s. Your irish accents his shite plays improve and then there's a few laughs and day i mean he said some nice things about the podcast so that you're right up there and then you say that we've got terreblanche closure accent. Oh my god i'm offended. I shouldn't have only found the ability irish and we're just not that rare live bill. I grant you be sure i do. I'm not good with accents. What can i say so that kind of wraps us up for this week. Thank you to everyone stories in. If you have story be it's a nice little regaling or something bloody bone shaking lee terrifying than send it over to talk about goes at hotmail dot com it will get right out of receiving. It makes my day when i get a little ping. I don't have the sound don't so that's why when i got a little feeling phone vibrates in a look at it says i'm gonna go story for you. Curve it bloody makes molly die so on make my day punk make my day email it to talk about ghosts at hotmail dot com. We'll get it right out. Don't forget if you want your name song as opposed to rapped then get over to patron dot com slash we need to talk about ghosts and and this has been wonderful about a lovely time to in this as always. I think we can all agree. The bride looks wonderful and yes so i'll see you next week for emotionality guns and more terrible accents okay then tell next time coty by <music>.

nathan nathan roche birmingham kevin i russia twitter facebook nathan astle nathan roche bekker alitalia paul larkhall youtube josh carter wrestling wisconsin burma gordon
Roundabout Roundup: Nathan for You, SkinnyPop Gingerbread Cookie Kettle Corn, Olive Garden to Go

Parenting Roundabout

08:02 min | 1 year ago

Roundabout Roundup: Nathan for You, SkinnyPop Gingerbread Cookie Kettle Corn, Olive Garden to Go

"Around five of the parenting about podcasts. For the week of December second polarity. And I'm here with Catherine. Let go hello hello today. We're taking a break from talking complaining obsessing and instead shouting out things other people are doing that. We think you'll find useful full enjoyable as we do this. Call our roundabout roundup. And I'll just get started with mine if that works for you yet after My son I have been binge watching a series on net flicks recently. And it's called Nathan Kim for you and is kind of like a reality show but there's obviously a lot of scripting in it too But the main person the the show centers around this Guiding Nathan fielder who is Canadian and He's a business advisor and he goes into businesses says and helps them revived their business. But he doesn't do it in a traditional way. He kind of does it in ways. That are a little little bit. AVANGARD risky So it in in some instances you're like how are they falling for this. If you know like for example in one episode. He was trying to help a real estate agent pickup her business in the busy market market of La wasn't getting a lot of business so he was trying to help her set. Vito Brad herself and so his suggestion was. Why did you become A real estate agent for houses that are haunted and so then they came up with this scheme to you know go into these houses us and sell them as haunted houses jammed. I'm so it's just it. Just it's stuff that an in order to convince people that they were haunted. You you know as people were walking through they would have a you know somebody doing exercises in a room and it was just really extreme and and it's very it's a very he's got a very dry sardonic whit to him like he's you know a lot of the it's it's meant to be kind of funny it's a spoof and nobody's harmed but anyway it's called me in for you and it's it's it's funny makes me a lot. That's on Netflix. Eight Catherine what have you got. Well I was at the grocery store the other day and I I happened upon a skinny pop flavor. That is obviously a special holiday edition. It is gingerbread cookie kettle corn popcorn. That's adding to me is really good pop. Its skinny pop so you could just go ahead and eat the White House how we eat a lot of popcorn in our house like a law of growth. Unlike we've we've by pre popped we pop it ourselves We buy a lot of the skinny pop. Whenever it's my turn to provide snacks to my daughter's team? She always wants popcorn. And I just by the individual bags of skinny So anyway when I saw this on the end cap at the store I was like this. This guy that's going right in my end is very tasty. It's just it's it's kettle corn so sweet and it has a gingerbread cookie. Okay flavor but it's not like caramel. Corn got that right coding. Yeah of stuff on it it's Much later Like it's still quite sweet but it doesn't have that sticky stuff all over it now so I Have you terry what have you got. Well we've been talking about traditions this week and one of my family traditions. Is that every Saturday. We order out for dinner winner And we have our list of neighborhood places that we go to in order and bring it home and we'd be sort of been looking around for new ones lately and I saw that the olive garden had to go as so many of these restaurants. Now do they've added that to their thing. So I looked at olive garden online. You could order online and go pick it up. And I found stuff that was relatively affordable pizano. Sometimes when we go out to olive garden some of the stuff is pricey so I said to the kids. So you can have this. This you can have a customize your own possible you pick capacity. Pick a sauce. That's what we're getting so each got one of those and they were like nine ninety nine and it came in a really nice bag with individual servings of Salad Salad. They have their debt. Were huge. It was like two servings of salad in a package and then to breadsticks free person and then our entree. It was a ton of food. I could really just have the salad and breadsticks sticks which is sort of the case when you go there to the restaurant also but I was really really impressed. It was really a good value for our You know order out dollar much much better than some of the local places and We definitely would do it again. I was very impressed by it. So if you're looking for something to order in on a on a weekend again night and just go to olive garden dot com. You can water find your local establishment to you can order online. Go pick it up I recommend it was I. Would I would be specific with your family. As to which things they're allowed to order. But if you do that and I will add that. I've have done their catering before you know my unpaid job of catering food for all children's activities and they have have a thing where you can order kind of like what you said like you. You get a couple kinds of pasta in a couple of different sauces and the big salad and breadsticks and then you can get like we balls and grilled chicken and whatever. Yeah I ordered comes comes in like a group of twenty so mortared you order this one thing. It's supposed to be for twenty people. I easily easily fed over forty while I was a lot. It really was and they can't you know they delivered it. They sending men in all At the little stor no things and Everything like they've been brought tablecloths for uh-huh paper ones but you know I was setting it up at the Ymca so it was nice to have. They literally brought every single thing. And and you don't have to return anything ice in like the trays in the the stern knows in whatever you can keep on our throwaway whatever you you don't have to go take him back to the store so that's already been so to recommendations in their small group or large and and that is it for another week of parenting roundabout if you missed any of our earlier episodes this week. Look them up on Speaker Apple podcasts. Or wherever you get your podcasts dear what we have. I'd say about holiday gifts traditions and obligations you can also find our episodes at parenting roundabout dot Com and talk back in the comments there on our facebook page or on twitter twitter real. Find us at roundabout chat and please visit our Amazon shop at www dot amazon dot com slash shop slash Josh Mahmoud where you can find links to a lot of things we talk about here. Have a great weekend at sea back here on Monday.

Catherine Nathan fielder Netflix Amazon Nathan Kim Vito Brad La Corn business advisor White House facebook twitter Josh Mahmoud
New season starts on Monday

FT Tech Tonic

00:50 sec | 1 year ago

New season starts on Monday

"Tectonic a podcast that looks at the way technology is changing. Our lives is returning for new season starting next week. We'll be talking to topple the US cardiologists about the ways in which the work of doctors can be enhanced by Nathan Juergens on social media, and the selfie and John Brown form ahead of BP on engineering, the future of civilization. So look out for tectonics starting on Monday. The seventeenth of June. You can subscribe on all the usual podcast platforms.

Nathan Juergens BP John Brown US
Oregon officials explain why they didn't warn people about coming wildfires

KUOW Newsroom

01:07 min | 2 months ago

Oregon officials explain why they didn't warn people about coming wildfires

"Now to southern Oregon where county officials are trying to explain why they didn't send out emergency alerts as deadly wildfires approach to towns. The Alameda fire killed four people and destroyed hundreds of homes April. Ehrlich reports many residents say they never got evacuation notices on their phones from the county's opt in alert system called ever bridge. The county could have instead used an emergency alert system to interrupt broadcasts on local TV channels and radio stations. But it didn't at a press conference sheriff Nathan Stickler says a countywide alert could have caused too many people. To evacuate at the same time, those roads would have blocked anymore. We can't say what could have occurred, but it could have been tragic. We had a hard enough time fair. The roads get people out as it was most people who didn't evacuate in time ended up having law enforcement or firefighters banging on their doors giving them just minutes to flee the fast moving flames emergency officials say it's too soon to evaluate what went wrong with the alert system. But when things calmed down, they'll reevaluate and potentially make improvements I mean pro ehrlich reporting.

Ehrlich Nathan Stickler Alameda Oregon
Manufacturing Made Simple with Nathan Resnick, CEO of Sourcify

Mission Daily

37:48 min | 1 year ago

Manufacturing Made Simple with Nathan Resnick, CEO of Sourcify

"Welcome to mission daily on Today's episode. We have Nathan Resnick C._E._O.. Of Source Affi- a platform that manages in organizes the entire higher production process to make manufacturing easy as source of five Nathan partners with over a thousand factories worldwide to help streamline their production he has also successfully ran three ecommerce companies and has been a part of projects on kickstarter racing over seven figures figures in this episode China Nathan Discuss his strategies for focusing on work and accomplishing his goals how he founded source defy through his work building ecommerce companies and how he is continuing to build source. If I into the future Nathan Good morning welcome to show thanks so much for having me excited. It'd be here same so <hes>. I'm talking to you from Beautiful Sunny Palo Alto California the clouds reporting it stopped raining winning the sun's out. It's really nice here. What's going on in San Diego? Everything's good here you know San Diego's a beautiful place to be among the road about two weeks every month so really enjoy something back here. I mean it's great. You have a home base year traveling two weeks out of the month is pretty tough. I've been in doing about two to three days. I'm getting rent out to traveling halftime so what tips yeah for me because <hes> traveling half the time it's pretty I go. I go international almost once a month. I mean typically every other month right. Now I mean last year. I was in China nine times. I was through Vietnam I and the Philippines as well. I think you just have to prepare your mind that you're in the time zone that you're going to already even before you take off and then you know really just leap into the Times on that I'm flying into already when you're thinking about getting active and building the business and expanding and going into other markets or traveling internationally that mindset I think is pretty unique. Do you think that you're born with that or do. You think that it's something that you developed and if so where'd you get started where that mindset come from a great great question I mean I think for me growing up. I was always entrepreneurial. I mean one of my first businesses was when every kid was hyped on these live strong bracelets and so I'd Maya Bunch of live strong type of bracelets different colors different sayings on the bracelets and resell them to my middle school classmates. It's at margin and I mean I don't know how much making it was definitely an entrepreneurial venture and then continue to have much better than selling them sugar by the way. Let's let's just point out the other type of fundraisers that are competing for market share and attention at the time and it's you chose wisely. Basically you can look back and be proud what about what you sold which not everybody can do and just for me was always having that entrepreneurial mindset. I don't know if I learned from anyone necessarily but a book or kind of just turning pointer information and resource that I had was honestly the four hour workweek. I read that book in I think my senior year of high school it was just an eye opener honesty. I was like wow you know we can optimize automate doesn't seem that hard to start a business and at the time I was working a summer internship as a as a sales intern making like one one hundred cold calls a day it was real went into this internship thinking that would actually be like ten sporting events that was actually cold calling retailers around the country. L. Are sporting equipment and I didn't necessarily enjoy the culture at their company. I realize as you know what if this founder and C._E._O.. Can Start this company. Why can't I and then read the four hour workweek and I was like wow you know? This is really not that hard even before that I had lived in China for a year in high school and had started importing products and reselling them on Ebay Amazon is on shop. A fine had some success in e-commerce world but you're never made like an official business and then I realized while you know it's not that it's not that hard necessary to incorporate a company. It's not that hard to handle taxes with tools like quickbooks turbotax the tax stuff like that so when you just dive in and realize that you know not everything has to be so complex H it a lot easier than for me. I always math things out like I'm very process driven in some sense. Do you feel better as you bill. The process fiscally refine it one hundred percent. I mean you know I spent a lot of my time kind of firefighting. If you will in terms of solving problems and just things come up during the day but in the earlier days I used to list out ten or twenty tasks that I wanted to accomplish that day and that's where I'd focus my time I'm on it could have been anything so I think being processed when is extremely important and also like blocking time understanding what you're going to be doing when every single day of the week you know hey I'm. I'm GonNa go mountain biking on Saturday morning. I'm GonNa go surfing on Saturday morning. What tips you have for someone? That's just getting started making less and starting to think about prioritization because there's always a competing number of things to do and prioritization is really really hard. <hes> is there any <hes> tip or strategy us for focus or <hes>. How are you thinking about better prioritizing your tasks and your time number one? I'll touch on focus because there are so many distractions in today's world like it is it is ridiculous. I mean the social media I actually used to be kind of wrapped up in the social media world Iran like travel instagram page page back in two thousand fifteen sixteen traveled Europe for six months basically for free vertical working out influence or deals as you want or what was the economics of what I would reach out to a hotel and I had like five thousand likes on some of my photos. I mean I would reach out. I'll just say hey I'm in town for two or three days. Wondering if you'd want me to know showcase your hotel or facility or whatever may be on my instagram page in honestly the majority would say yes that'd be awesome and they put me up for a night or two and it was amazing for for six months when I graduated university but after traveling for six months I got tired I wanted to do more with my life. I felt social media was I don't want to say it's necessarily fake but you highlight very positive or like cool parts of your life and so now I I think social media like it can be a great market. It definitely is an important part of today's society but honestly right now during the week usually Monday through Friday I delete instagram off of my phone and that's just you know key part of Focus. I think in so you know if if you're trying to accomplish goals and really you know move forward with a given process I think number one is okay well. What are your base attractions right now? I mean you know iphones got this feature now. You can screen time seeing how much time you're looking at. Your phone is insane. I think number one if you're trying to like set goals and especially if you're working you know even a fulltime job right now and you're trying to be more entrepreneurial number. One is limit distractions. I mean and then realize like look. You've got twenty four hours a day. I typically operate on six hours of sleep. I am fine. I mean I can slip from midnight to six A._M.. Operate completely great the next day and so I think when you come to then making process to hit your goals. It's a matter of nothing out you know what do you have to do from you know no step one to ten to actually get to a you wanna be and everything can have a process from starting a company to lifting heavyweight in the gym to running a marathon. I mean everything can have a process and it's just a matter of consistency in sticking to issue that yeah definitely I. I think that being forgiving yourself when you're getting started or when you're like starting to make listen to tackle things and hold yourself accountable is important because I can remember some early days in business and when I I got started making money and then paying rent and then having enough money leftover whereas like while I made all this this is in the bank I feel so great about myself those type of feelings. I feel like they are impossible to get unless you give yourself some permission to be really bad in the beginning so if you're to the extent you're willing to talk about it. I would love to go back to the beginning and some of your earliest business ideas or you mentioned a couple examples but what was it like in the beginning because I can look back at some of my early businesses and I I cringe at all of them. However I I never would be here if I didn't embarrass myself and look like a fool <hes> for so long and business so when I got started what was what was the origins of that and what type of early rejections do you still remember to this day so the whole reason I got into you know what I did today which is running sore? SIFY is about ten years ago. I used to live in China China's foreign exchange student in high school so I was living with a host family that didn't speak English attending a local Chinese high school and just became so immersed in the culture and environment of China's so I speak fluent mandarin now but I remember the early days I could barely speak manner and when I went over there I had a dictionary by the dinner table. You know like okay. You know what I want to talk about over dinner tonight. It was really just an eye opening experience for me. I was so captivated and fascinated by China and then also became I'm very fascinated by how products are produced and so that year in two thousand nine hundred thousand ten we started importing products from China and reselling them on Ebay Amazon and then launch her own private labels on Chop Affi- and so I just became so captivated by the import process and how Protestant manufactured because if you look at a product there's actually so many details at GONNA producing product. I mean you look at you know the vest. I'm wearing right now someone to figure out the fabric to cut the trim the Zipper the fabric way I mean so many little details that go into a simple vest on that had to be you know laid out and designed by someone so I just became so excited by that process and then also how factories operate. Operate and so in China I started going to a few factories started producing my own products and definitely made mistakes. I mean one of the first importation of sunglasses that I had. I didn't realize that sunglasses were technically a medical device. Vice factory has have an F._D._A.. Certificate to import those products on my sunglasses. My first runoff sunglasses like ten years ago got stuck at customs because I didn't have that F._D._a.. Clearance from factory and so really learn learn quickly like wow you know you can't just brand products in America you actually have to have you know the rules and regulations checked up to make sure that what you're importing can cross through customs so I mean for me starting in China and then you know when I was nineteen I launched a ecommerce brand that you know it over six figures and revenue and this was when I was in called I went to school at the University of San Diego and I was just having a ton of fun and it was a great brand to run through university. I mean we used to host events with <unk> Hard Rock Hotel downtown. I used to be nineteen years old going into these pool parties. They'd have on Saturdays and I'd go in with like friends that were years older over twenty one it would like you know get us a great deal and like a table with bottles and we'd be drinking and selling sunglasses in like Saturday and Sunday during the three months of the summer like you know may through August we would do like you know three to six thousand dollars a weekend just like cell classes too drunk people at this pool party and it was awesome and we had a ton of fun so Tommy about sales taught me about you know getting in front of people and really how to just build relationships. I think really if I think about sales that's what it's about building relationships with people and so that's a key dynamic and so I was just it's always more excited by the production side you know how to produce products more effectively. I realized was number. One that everyone struggles you know how to find the right factory and number two managing production right now is all done over non excel spreadsheets dated industry in the world and so if you ask someone how they're gonNa cost the times or quality defect rates are fluctuating. They really have no clue necessarily <hes> they don't have that data readily available to them and to two years ago started source defy which has become the fastest growing manufacturing platform we help hundreds of companies produce products across Asia <hes> we've got five offices to members in China Vietnam India as well as San Diego in Las Vegas and so it's really just been a amazing process process of starting but to your point I mean if I look at like one key characteristic that got me through the early days. It was just being self driven and self aware I mean source suffice started two years ago with myself and my living room doing everything from every customer support email to every product that we were sourcing. I mean saying it was a lot of work would be an understatement. I mean it was a ton a ton of work and we just continue to grow you know we got to a point where we're making enough money where I could hire one or two people ought to support the business but there was definitely times like the first day it's you know I had a co founder and he was traveling Europe as we are starting and so I get a message from him on what's APP APP saying hey have had family emergency. I'm not going to be able to commit to starting source a fight with you and I'll just like wow like crap and this was like this morning it was I still remember June nine two thousand seventeen and this was the good morning we were supposed to go into this nonprofit incubator here in San Diego called Yvo nexus which is one of the most well known you know accelerator incubator programs in San Diego so I get this text. My co-founder who I got in you know invited to this program with saying hey you know he's quitting and something and myself wow. What am I going to do? Like what am I gonNa tell you nexus and then Louis an hour later I get a call from my dad said I know my grandma had passed away and it was just like such a blow. I mean you know it was it was really hard. Honestly I mean I was like laying on the floor. Just thinking okay like what do I want to do with my life and I really thought like okay. What does my would my grandma want me to do? I mean you know she passed away. Peacefully was of old age but it was really we just just a hard moment for me to think like okay. Do I wanNA walk into this accelerated Perga- myself. They're gonNA ask me whereas my co-founder and I've got a fly out later that week to attend my grandma's funeral long story short I quoc in an accelerator program like Hey. It's just me they were really supportive. They're like you know. This is a blessing in disguise. You'RE GONNA be able to really take ownership and if someone quiz just because you know some little thing thank him up I mean there's no way he would have made it through your only that we've had the past two years so now looking back on it was definitely a blessing skies and so you know when I look back on our journey and how he's gotten to where today show spent about being being aware and persistent and also you know right now at our staged about the team you know the teen Alves incredible and that's honestly I think one of the biggest or actually the biggest challenge of growth is is hiring and growing a team that you love working with and that's the biggest challenger at least one to two. Maybe the third biggest challenge of just about every C._E._o.. Every executive that's listening to this is how do I find recruit retain the best talent and do you think that the <hes> media or the tech industry is a whole has anything insightful to say about this. I haven't heard really anything that's interesting. I hear a last about building culture but I don't see a lot of team building in practice. If that makes sense I just hear a lot of people talking about culture <hes> which what's your take on it you know right now. We're at a stage where we always try to hire through our network or through friends. I mean I have people that I mean we of course I've job postings up and stuff but it's very rare that we as a growing organization organization just feel complete trust and a person that we don't have mutual friends with or no someone similar with we've made miss hires in the past and you can tell you know pretty much right away. I mean at least within a month if someone's not gonNA work out or not and then when you replace as that person with someone that does work out. It's like complete night and day I mean literally you know actually our C._T._o.. We had a informer C._T._O.. That didn't work out and you know we made a transition and broadened someone else that I've known actually for five years and you know our new seats <unk> absolutely crushes it. I mean it's amazing to see the difference in your business that having the right people can can cause. It's incredible so I don't know if a having like exact pointers but I think honestly probably one of the reasons why I investors are more willing to invest in founders that have a few more years of experience or at least successful exit is because their networks for hiring probably stronger. That's just so crucial to growth. I take such a long time to Utah to hire and have context and have shared history with someone so when did those conversations I start or when did those people I get on your radar. <hes> are there any stories about early employees or team members or co-founders <hes> that you like to tell to create corporate mythology because this is something that I'm fascinated with so yeah. Are there any like stories from the early days of just examples of excellence. Maybe our first employees in China I met in through one of our partner factories. He came on board is was just him in China and in him and I I would stay up to like two A._M.. Working with him though just time difference you know now we're going to be close to fifteen people in China pretty soon and we started you know our operation there with a growth mindset you know were crowing extremely fast and really trying to enable everyone to have more transparent invisible supply chain and so with this one team member in particular I mean just seeing him. Take ownership and grow as a leader is awesome and he's been able to become our team leader China director if you will and you know he's not an old guy. Necessarily I mean he's late twenties or so but at the same time just to see the ownership and responsibility that he's taking our team there is incredible and and you know to see him grow from an individual contributor to a manager is awesome. That's one and then number two in terms of like our currency. I mean we've known each other for five years in college. We worked on a pretty fun like mobile APP before and you know when we first started chatting pry took like three or four months. Actually you know get him fully committed. He was out of pretty comfortable. You know senior development job at a fortune five hundred and kind of aligning our visions was awesome. I mean right now. We know love love working together and it's really been incredible to grow together and when it comes to the rest of the team and expanding and everything what markets are you most excited about entering now and I guess I already should've asked this but when people who don't know that are not familiar with the industry mystery your company or why see ask what store sify is and what you do <hes>. How do you respond source affi- helps companies produce products around the world? Our goal is to help companies save money in their supply chain. We typically save anywhere from ten to forty percent of unit costs or lead times and you know that's basically our goal. We typically work with mid market companies doing one to fifty million dollars in revenue. Would you work with some fortune five hundred <hes> as well as some high growth startup ECOMMERCE brands so. It's been a pretty incredible journey. Go from one person sourcing company to really a software driven sourcing platform. We've got over a thousand partner factory's pretty much every country in Asia last year we ran production in every country in Asia besides size Japan and Korea South America as well so without some suppliers in Columbia that we're starting to work with and so you know for us. That's what we do and it's been really just a matter of iteration from going to just like a source and company into now like a software driven company and for me. I'm not technology driven. I don't I don't know software really at all. I mean now. I know a bit but I don't know how to write any code and so it's been a huge huge learning curve that I've loved to really understand John. Okay you know when you are asking for a new feature. You know you're considering development time and how long that's GonNa take what the impact that's GonNa have on your business. I think one thing that we do across all of our team. Members is align our nor star you know what is the one goal that we're all shooting for and having that one goal is so crucial to aligning everyone's time and really just that way that we conduct our business with source defy and growth and your investors and everything that's like that's very exciting. What are you thinking about in terms of like long-term goals and what are you open to sharing like what's a one year vision for source of by? What's a five year vision and then you? Do you have anything beyond that. How do you think about the future screw question I mean I really think this business can outlive myself? I mean are nor star that our whole team shoots it's for is handling a billion dollars in production in the next five years in that's what we're aligning everything towards and really kind of the cooler part of that is we know we have the data behind how much it costs and howling takes and <hes> where every product product the world should be produced so I go into a retail store go on ECOMMERCE website. I know how much all these products cost. Manufacturing Hall Alan took so that data is extremely valuable not only to create new tools around but also doc to potentially vertically integrate. I mean we really want to have an impact on the world and we've already done so in some sense. I mean there was a factor. We started working within the Philippines in when they started working with us around thirty employees right now they're around. Eighty employees is just through the production opportunities have gotten through source Afyon. This factory is the best in their region. It's pretty remote region of the Philippines Zimbawe in the far south and most companies just like wouldn't go go there and so for us like it's a matter of having global impact and really working with partners that WanNa grow. I mean that's really a key is really aligning ourselves with <hes> facilities at WanNa grow because we've also I've been to a factory that was producing shoes for fortune in one hundred companies and they had ten thousand employees very stable business in very amazing facility. I mean ten thousand factory works. If you can imagine that is just I opening to see they have cleaned dorms. They have have a great cafeteria. I there it was it was good food but it's just like why this this factory already worked for so many so many big customers and they've already kind of their add a very large scale and so for us a lot out of what we do is really empower Kinda midmarket factories to grow even more. What's <hes> an example of why amid market factory? Thanks you basically for paying you money. <hes> because I I love the customer success stories and those are the stories that because I think as any entrepreneur you're always wondering about the price of your product right like is it is it priced correctly to where people use it. They pay money and then afterwards they thanked me for it. So what's a customer success story where you knew you were getting like pricing zing and value creation like when did you start to know that you were approaching product market fit and really serving customers for US argos every customers to save anywhere from ten to forty percent other unit costs one great example of that. I mean just happen this morning. It will in happened but over the past five months. Basically we started working with this. <HES> ECOMMERCE company called store your board. They're like one of the largest sellers of ski rocks and State Board Racks Online. They previously had most production handled in China and with these new tariffs these trade tariffs they needed to transition production so we moved production to Vietnam they save ten percent alone on their duty in tariff and they also save you know about twelve plus percent of their unit costs awesome across a lot of different categories and so it's I mean it's company that spends mid seven figures on production. You're talking about you know hundreds of thousands of dollars and their supply chain while the also giving them more visibility and transparency in production and for us I mean we basically basically make a small margin anywhere from three to five percent on those production dollars in the reason factories lovers too is because we connect them directly to buyers and they work online through our systems have better manage productions. They can really track and understand what's going on is the the future of source of Fi B._b.. Or is it to be and then be to see or is it a three-sided marketplace's at a two sided. How are you thinking about this? And how are you a structuring the business to be defensive yeah yeah. It's a really good question. I mean right now. Our main focus is be to the the scenario feature where we integrate on the university rate on the on the costumer side potentially but right now we're really focused on helping our customers and making the best production experience possible when I think of the growth of accompanying Brian how they've no transition I always look at Amazon going from selling books online to everything doing on their marketplace right. Now in A._W._S.. Is just incredible sending when you get to that level you can definitely open up lines of business but I think for us at our stage. Having a laser focus is such a key to success what entrepreneurs are most inspiring to you and why so you mentioned Bezos but what about basis Amazon journey outside of the obvious part like he's the richest man in Earth in Amazon's incredible company. Are there any specifics or examples holes from his journey that you're particularly inspired by or other entrepreneurs. The entrepreneur that I've met and actually most look up to is is definitely Tim Ferriss. I mean I think in his early days content was incredible. You know the business that he was running in terms of that supplement company was very well optimized and maintained. It was more of a lifestyle business but you know when I when I looked at high growth companies I I always think of flex port one of our partners you know the fastest growing freight forwarder in the world they went from basically to do people in two thousand fourteen this year Lobi at over one thousand five hundred employees so you know six years in a thousand people later they're just crushing and it's been so amazing to see how they've grown and you know their first employees are artificial adviser and it's just amazing share notes and look at that journey and just look at you know how far they've come and I think that's a great example because that's an industry where Ryan had so much domain experience experienced before he even started the company because oftentimes we look at this company or any type of big success from the outside and say like Oh well the company started here when they went to y c but actually started you know ten twenty thirty years ago sometimes for different entrepreneurs so do you have any advice advice for entrepreneurs because I feel like it's very confusing if you were to just glance at the media's interpretation of entrepreneurial success because it's a decade's long game it takes forever. It's super super soul-crushing in the beginning <hes> so so what advice you have for entrepreneurs and especially for folks that might be in the first decade of their learnings or something like that these large large companies don't come together overnight. I mean even you looked at like airbnb they. I thought they were gonNA make money like literally selling air our mattresses to departments of its journey for sure like you're saying success doesn't come overnight like one of my favorite stories here in San Diego is actually the founder of Gofundme me you know the crowdfunding platform that processes tens of billions of dollars in a nonprofit fundraising every single year and the founder is early investments source of five as an incredible entrepreneur and founder and it started with two people that a seven year journey and so you know they sold for not billion dollars but you know very high you know nine figures it was just an incredible journey for them to go through. ITERATIONS didn't raise much funding. I mean they raised less than two million dollars. Total in I think in in today's world just mentioning kind of the hype of Tech Coverage. A lot of the coverage is around who can raise the most amount of money and I mean there's tons of cases where accompany the better-funded competitor stories don't don't get brought up nearly enough. Everybody forgets about them. Let's just put those under the rug. Totally I mean a classic example in our industry is a company that we're partnered with called Shit Bob they handle like third party logistics and they had a competitor called ship and I don't know exactly how line and business but that was a hyper growth. Take off too because I can remember everybody talking. I was one of my friends. Kamal was actually WHO's trying to get to join in two thousand twelve. When I left the military I kick myself looking back and I was very very I'd foam oh and it was like just went through a month? Period of like I was stupid for not taking that and then I watched you know what happened and I was like. I think there's a quote that says something like the full sees things and says it's locker like the Blah Blah Blah but the wise man just looks at everything and says nothing and I'm starting to realize it like saying nothing is usually the appropriate appropriate response and just realizing like you just never know what's going on at these companies from the outside so even when a company gets a hundred million dollars from Softbank or a billion dollars from Softbank like nobody might know what's what's going on except that people with information right so I think any type of judgement or assumptions in this space is usually a toxic. So how are you thinking about. Maybe like updating your mental models or learning more or becoming a better C._E._o.. Is there any thought process there. Where maybe you're working with a coach? Maybe if you're talking to your board or maybe you're just you know what you need to do and you're doing it. What's that process for you? Yeah I mean it's great question. I think for me like people have asked me you know like how do you learn at your stage. In Aussie. I read books. I talked to other entrepreneurs or founders and say hey a workbook got you through this problem this challenge they recommend it and I spend you know Saturday Sunday reading it and taking notes I mean so crucial to to my growth is just reading and it's funny because I used to not read it all like elementary middle and high school. I didn't read at all like like I just wasn't a reader. You know especially I don't. I don't read fiction at all. It's all like nonfiction which is such a great reminder because a lot of people would have had a similar experience just say well. I'm not a reader instead of I haven't read yet like you can always start you can always start stuff. I think dad's been a key and then also surrounding yourself with other driven people. I mean most my friends now that I hang out with a lot here in San Diego other founders other entrepreneurs not all running you know venture back startups run you know lifestyle all businesses in terms of <hes> ECOMMERCE brands or a coaching businesses but at the same time just you know other people that are driven and want to have an impact on this world. I think that's so important so yeah. That's that's kind of what gets me going in terms of like a board. It's so interesting because I think aboard can be great for some things but when it comes to direction I think you know it's great to have a group of people that you can get inside from but at the end of the day like no one should should or will know as much about your business as you do. I just don't know anyone that knows more about sourcing manufacturing than I do and so you know aboard in you know group of people is fantastic to kind of brainstorm with and see what direction we take but at the end of the day like it should and I think it always should be like the C._e._O.'s decision. The person that you know really started the businesses <hes> decision yeah if you don't have a vision and if you're looking to other people or your board for the vision I think you're going to run into a lot of pain and struggle. What is a vision of source affi- that you can share with us on days where you don't feel like waking up and jumping out about it in the morning? Why do you do it? You know in a sentence is bringing transparency and visibility to supply chains around the world. We want everyone to know where their products came from. One of the notes he made earlier was about price visibility like how do you know as a company. What you're paying is actually competitive because here's the thing if you know person A._M.? Person Be went to the same factory. Try to resist same product <hes> at the same shame quantities they will get back different pricing and there's very little visibility so for us. We bring that visibility the table and then you know what gets me up in the morning I mean besides my alarm but sometimes honestly I wake up before my alarm wishes funny. I mean it's just kind of been this par- In our a business right now. We're I'm excited so I mean what gets me up. Honestly is just wanting to have an impact and religious believe in becoming cited by what we're doing. I mean there's definitely been times where it's been really challenging bar business in a lot of that stemmed from having some of the wrong when people on our team in the past or just having you know the wrong business model in the past and you know I think it's just a matter of continuing to have consistency like we're talking about just being persistent and having consistency around what you want to accomplish so there's a lot of <hes> really technical folks who have worked in technology a lot a lot of them way longer than I have their executives there <hes> talented people who live in the bay area and they're they're passionate about stuff. They care about like they listen to us. They care about mission driven companies. They they WANNA find on mission driven work. What positions do you have right now that you're most excited about whether it's like open positions or maybe you're looking for chief of staff that has like a really niche specific background or something like that? Who are you looking for? And who do you like talking talking to because I think as a founder and C._E._o.. Like we're not always recruiting. Were always just looking for what work looks like for other people like we wanna like we want to help other people or connect them with people in our network. So who were you looking to connect with. When you get a cold email oh from someone that is technical? What signals or characteristics do you look for? When do you get excited about getting a cold email from someone that says I want joined the team or I know somebody? That would be a good fit like what are what are you looking for. When that cold email comes in if you to reach our coal that's fine if it's a great email our respond but I feel like what's even better in especially like if you're trying to join our sales team find a way to get a warm introduction to me? I mean to make it easy for you to say let me listen. Let me be fully present if they can you get a warm introduction from a friend of a frantic okay. This person knows how to work in account. That's so key and that's for any position honesty. It's like look like at the end of the day. If you're on our supply chain you're building relationships in working with factories. If you're on our you know operations operations or account management in or sales team like you're still building relationships so I think that's like such a key I would say just find a way to get <hes> introduction in dive in you know I think that's just so important. Do the test assignments before you get the test assignments type thing we're hiring across our sales team account management in and all of our offices in Asia but we hire you know locally overseas but we're in San Diego. We're in Las Vegas will open up l.. A. Probably Pretty soon <hes> in potential New York City as well so definitely reach out. What is the top or like what are the top to our top three prospects that you have where you would like love to work with that company like where you WanNa partner with them because you have so many ideas to basically save the money and it would be like such a good fit? I draw on right now that I'd be super confident in us. If we worked with them is away suitcases like if you look at a ways journey you know they're just raised like a hundred million dollars at a one point four billion dollar valuation. It's incredible credible luggage startup in company in the product fantastic absolutely love them. I've heard you know Gen. The founder speech is Great Speaker really a visionary e-commerce world and when I look at that brand and hear their story I mean I listened into them on on a podcast and you know they started. They launched with travel books because they had problems with the times when they were first starting production because you know the founders in the team doesn't come from a sourcing or product background. Necessarily I mean they're marketings incredible credible and just completely in awe love what they're doing from a marketing standpoint but look at their team in you know what they're hiring for right now. They're based you hiring like sourcing team members and products you members. I mean we could make their lives so so much easier to optimize their supply supply chain. I mean I know they run on excel spreadsheets and email so if you're listening in from O._A._C. cases shoot me an email. I love it somebody listening to make that intro because that's the helpful thing we can make your life one hundred times easier and here's the thing to that I'll make a note on real quick. Quick Harry's are all birds you know they have had so much success because they vertically integrated your supply chain Harry's the first thing that did was by a razor factory all birds there vertically integrated with two Korean shoe factories. I mean that is the way that you own. A category is university in Bay on your supply chain and that's what we enable companies do outsource FAI yeah and oftentimes. It's easier to buy revenue than it is to build that revenue yourself. I think that's what's so smart about Harry's is like there. They raised a large investment rounded by the factory and that's like you can still do that and I think a lot of investors prefer a entrepreneur C._e._o.. WHO's thinking much bigger like that? WHO's ready to start making acquisitions then one who doesn't so Nathan this has been so awesome man? Thank you for joining us. Thank you for being generous with your time. Is there any final thought or maybe call to action that you would leave everyone with WHO's listening to that. Yeah I mean for me my favorite quote and a lot of people notice from the office as Wayne Gretzky. You missed one hundred percent of the shots you don't take. I have have that hanging on my wallet. Have it in our office. I absolutely love that quote. It's you know guided me in so many ways in my life and hope that has an impact on everyone else's as well I love it Nathan you and Source Affi- crushing it and I can't wait to see I don't mean that in the <hes> lame Silicon Valley way that you've heard it so many times while you're doing really well as a business and <hes> yeah hats off to you and thank you so much for joining us mission daily and all of our podcasts are created with love by our team at mission dot org we own an operate a network of podcast and brand story studio designed to accelerate learning our clients include companies like salesforce their Customer Times Five Twi- Leo and Cabrera who worked with us because we produce results to learn more and get our case studies checkout mission dot org slash studios if you're tired of media news that promotes fear uncertainty doubt and if you want an antidote to all that gas you're at the right place subscribe here into our daily newsletter at mission dot org each morning you'll.

China San Diego founder Asia Nathan Resnick partner SIFY co-founder Ebay Amazon Philippines Vietnam Europe Las Vegas executive China Nathan Beautiful Sunny Palo Alto Cali intern Chinese high school
Nathan Parker: Disappointed but not surprised

The Good Problem

43:33 min | 5 months ago

Nathan Parker: Disappointed but not surprised

"The! Good problem formerly normand's do-gooder is podcast series unpacking sticky art doing good Yulia Me Leigh Matthews getting curious about the ethics of doing good the dangers of doing good and how to do better at doing good. I've been working doing good sector for the last fifteen years in that time up an engine, Cambodia on a whole bunch of awards, burt-out had two children learned a lot of lessons set up a consulting company. Founded the rethink, orphanages network traveled the world written a book and spoken to audiences globally. You can find me at www dot Lee matthews dot com. I've been thinking a lot about failure and learning recently especially when it comes to doing good. We're in the midst of a global disaster that has taken the lives of hundreds of thousands of people and has impacted this. All this is not the first is also the world has lived through the nineteen, nineteen pandemic took at least fifty million lives. In fact, we regularly face disasters in the form of cyclones, canes, floods, earthquakes as well as humanitarian disasters, resulting from conflict and other issues. America raising crisis with over two point five million cases in title over some say the actual number is much higher and daily increases in the tens of thousands. We've seen endless media stories of shortages of medical supplies especially in the early days where doctors and healthcare workers had insufficient supplies of basic personal protective equipment. I've been wondering why. When there are many previous disasters to learn from when people are highly trained to respond to humanitarian disaster, and when the US self, since human financial and physical resources in response to disaster. Why haven't we learned? WHY DO AL systems fail us in a time of crisis. TO HELP ME UNPACK! This I've invited Nathan Poker on the shy. Nathan is a problem Selva. He has worked in a diverse of places and spaces. He's been a primary care provider startup founder lead lodge scale, interactive art installations and worked to bring the global maker movement into a coherent self sustaining ecosystem. His run workshops around the world on open source, mutual aid, disaster, resilience and organized global summits on open source hardware and distributed manufacturing. As the COVID nineteen crisis reveals the fragility of global supply chain communities of makers, engineers, designers, and healthcare providers have come together to make the world's needs for medical supplies. However, this response has suffered from a lack of coordination and interoperability. In support of this work has been developing and distributed digital infrastructure to enable by the better coordinated response during the crisis. And Greater Resilience Nice to come welcome to the good problem podcast Nathan, like you've readily festival Nathan I WANNA ask you a question I asked all my guests. What does the idea of doing good mean to you personally? To give context to this I mean I'm nearly forty I spent the first half of my life. I would say in a very very serious depression. I was in my early twenty s when I I had a a moment ride. Oh, I think this is what people are talking when they stated he'll happy and a lot of. The sort of bizarre circuitous career arc that I followed, since then has really felt like. I, don't know. Do you know to doubt on his es Satay following something that's sort of occasionally like kicks in you in a direction you GonNa, do it here is but I was just falling, whatever seemed to be the thing that would leave me out of this darkness, and an e universally has been helping people in some way I got medical training is why I've been. been drawn to this is after work. Also seek myself personally, and then maybe generalize, but I haven't followed it because it's like Oh, ego, pets for being the the good boy. It's more like you know. Depressions isolation in many ways, especially chronic depression, and it is connection is the sense of shared purpose of usefulness within something larger, and that's kind of what I've been chasing most. What was that fest thing that made you think? Oh, this is what people mean when they say they feel happy so back in two thousand I was studying computer engineering 'cause. I had no idea what else to do, but a friend of mine convinced me to take A. Bodywork class. It was all a bunch of us who never laid hands on another person before sitting there kind of awkwardly. Doing something might. Seem to know where to go mike every time it was like the magnets Find the place in. Much better. It's touched a person in health. Weird. That's great, I should do more of that. Yeah, right, and do you feel that doing good is something that you express throughout your daily live, or is it something that you kind of siler? d- to the side? It's been that I i. wish I was able to express more in my daily life at its root. There's just kindness. Just trying to act with kindness in care for the people around me at in my community, I don't know if that that qualifies doing good with a Capital G., but if if you have a moment, there's something like to share with you. That kind of sums up a lot of how look at all this beautiful poem Ninety. She had Ni- ridden. Ridden before you know what kindness really is, you must lose. Things feel the future to solve in a moment like salt, and we can broth what you held in your hand. What you counted in carefully saved all this must go see you know how desolate landscape can be between the regions of kindness, Harry, Reid, and Reid thinking the bus will never stop. Passengers eating, maize and chicken will stare out the window forever. Before you learn the tender, gravity of kindness must travel where the Indian in a white Oncho lies dead by the side of the road. You must see how this could be you. How to with someone who journeyed through the night with plans? Simple breath kept him alive. Before you know, kindness does the deepest stay inside you must know sorrow as the other deepest thing you must wake up with sorrow. You must speak till it to your voice catches the threat of all sorrows, and you see the size of the cloth. than it is only kindness that make sense anymore, only kindness ties. Your shoes sends you out into the day to purchase bread. Letters only kind of raises its head from the crowd, the world to say if you have been looking for, and then it goes with you everywhere like a shot or a friend. Beautiful thank you. Think that. That desire for you to come out of that depressive place is what drives you to want to help this now. Always there something tape something earlier. That was what started me on this, but I have to be honest. The depression that marks the first half of my life has been. Largely absent in recent years, and not for lack of good reason to be depressed the. Look at the world. Recently I find what I need to keep going in the community. Build doing the things that seem to need doing you know we're talking about like the psychological aspect of of doing good i. think especially in America. Certainly, we're very much sold on this individualisation mental mental health I take a much more mutual aid approach. It makes me think Doing good can often be a way alleviate our discomfort. Speech is usually a way to alleviate. Are INTAS comfort whether that's? Out! Discomfort in watching someone else suffer or our own internal discomfort, which can be supported by doing things that make us feel good absolute Nathan. Lot of very interesting things, but today I want to specifically focus on talking about your current project where you're working at the intersection of Arkansas. Hardware disaster resilience, and the COVID nineteen response in the US. Can you tell us a little bit about the project? And what's actually trying to achieve or All set up some context so starting in early March as things are just starting to get Harry here. Some friends of mine started up a project consorts medical supplies. That was trying to respond to the challenge of the ratio of signal to noise was very poor, the number of people in the engineering and make her community all over the US particularly all over the world. who were desperate to help feel useful, led to enormous amount of untested unwanted designs, being shared around and big made being delivered in doctors. Being like this is GonNa kill someone. Please never do this again. And so SMS started up trying to be kind of a funnel for all these bad designs filter out the ones that weren't needed document and make more usable the good ones. They don't really good work. Check out open source medical supplies that were. been involved with them, but within that first month I couldn't shake the feeling that there is a piece and zoomed out. A level is a mess is really just concerned with information hygiene that all that's their remit, and what? What is inflammation hygiene? All the Arab information wars now and with whether information is an intentional accidental. The level of disinformation causes huge problems especially when you're dealing with. You know you have thousand isolated workshops around the country, and all of them have three D. printers and laser cutters, and they want to be helpful in the. They WanNa do a thing. They want to chip in, but the only way they have to find a design is just like Google or go on tours. The chances of finding a design that is made if we review that is safe. That is going to actually do the thing it's supposed to do is very low right. Okay, so their main focuses that, but the community that's built up around. It has shipped I like twelve million units at PP in the last. Four months or something like that. It's and how much of that is useful. It's definitely getting better. Most of that is face shields which are helpful for doctors in their super lightweight. The little of that is like ventilators or anything that complicated, but it made a dent. However said they know this is all about setting context for what I've been working on. What I see is this this is really work. This is people turning out hundreds or thousands of like masks, shields and stuff from the airline shots here and there a is barely moving. The needle is orders of magnitude off from the actual scale of the problem, and the difficulty of this problem only goes up from here. This is gonNA. Come back to like. Like the bigger picture conversation about why it's so difficult to do good in disasters of this is a big part of it in a disaster, regardless of what type of disaster it is, the the two things that usually breakdown i. if it's really disaster, depletion infrastructure, the capital s supply chain when you talk about the supply chain, the of the global distributed manufacturing system that makes the stuff magically appear in our stores is pretty centrally controlled Very optimized and with it's truly impressive, but you can only. You can't optimize for everything at once. If you optimize for efficiency, you lose resilience during qualities at either end of the spectrum. If you optimize for profit, you cannot also optimize for human wellbeing and the supply chain treats. Critical life-saving goods and luxury goods the same you know if you look at what's happening with climate change whether destruction and days out of fossil fuels while our entire supply chain relies on diesel. If you look at the you know? Increasing global geopolitical instability, the massive global recession not suggest starting the many waves of Cova. Get to comment whatever other pandemic coming out of the permafrost etcetera. Etcetera like this is these are the good old days, and the conversations were having around what to do for Koga conversations. We're having six years ago with a bullet. You know we haven't learned anything because it requires a systemic change need essentially a new supply chain that exists in parallel to the old one that is localized and decentralized and focused on critical life-saving goods based on open source designs at cost, rather than luxury goods produced wherever labor laws are, the are the weakest and shipped around the world and so building. That system is a non trivial lift as they say. And so that's what you're working on to try to build a localized system. Yes, Assad here, watching everyone, running around like chickens with their head, cut off. You know myself included for. It felt like all tactics and no strategy in terms of what we need for this supply chain. I think in terms of five layers didn't set out to make another nation does work out that way, so you have designed documentation demand aggregation. Distributed manufacturing and delivery logistics pretty much what it does. I had many conversations with leadership level people at a companies and organizations across all of these layers. None of them knew what the other one was doing. Many were trying to reinvent the entire system from scratch because they didn't have visibility into what people were doing. attempting to just ignore layers entirely in hope for the best, and for while I was trying to build a whole piece of software that would do all of this and I realized I really didn't need to like all of the pieces exists. They just don't talk to each other and so rather than trying to build yet. Another platform which the world is not interesting. Rather than try to get into their APP, I don't need to compete with the people who are doing part of that. Well I just need to get them talking to each other, and so the system has been more about like an interoperability framework based on open source hardware. That will allow you to for example say you're engineering you you. You know someone to hospitals lead a thing that does this. And you know in our third factory in China is not getting to another. How long the publisher design automatically flags to the documentation team. They pushed into the system. Run it through a medical check into. Okay. Yeah, this passes signed goes into the queue. Now it shows up automatically for the demand aggregation. Those are all like mutual aid. Organizations get PTA DOT ORG is a great example mask, force, or things like that and these are mostly run on spreadsheets in air tables where it's just local communities like all right who needs it? Who's got it or going to figure this? This out there, otherwise totally disconnected from the process, the only designer that you had to choose from are the ones that have to this process documented in review now you say alright, new or two thousand these goes into distributed manufacturing system. Which again is already there? Companies like three Xm is on free have like four thousand locations around the world, and you just feed them a file and they deliver it. Like that model exists. There's no reason to to try to do it again. fictive author three houses. It doesn't the company's doing this and the idea is making model where any company that does that can plug in where you can make a new one pud. You don't have to build a whole thing from scratch. Most of those district manufacturing have their own logistics partnerships, but also volunteer based ones that can plug into this PD. Logistics Dot. Org is the great project that's helping. So, all the pieces are there. It's literally just a can't talk to each other, and they don't visibility into each other's process, so been slowly tried to build that framework. Get to come to the table and say yes okay. We understand that this is the problem. This is how we're going to solve it and do away. That doesn't step on anyone's toes, but I think it's the working. What's the reception like people wanting to engage in a platform like this or tool likeness? So the the folks that I've talked to buy large had been really receptive. I think you know so. There's there's been a number of like. He's a virtual conferences until in efforts like this. Get talked about you know I. can tell you how many presentations I've seen, or someone's like Oh. Yeah, this is maker space. We ended up like prototyping a design for this thing to out thousand community. We also get about it. And you know people. I think psychologically really need the little wins. I don't regret anyone, but I tend to be. The one comes into. Okay, so the reality is Doug. That's great, but that is several orders of magnitude away from what is needed, and you need a unit system to be more efficient than you ten the on your own. And when I kind of name, the problem or the discrepancy name the discrepancy between what we've done what we need to be doing. Pretty much just nodding around room. They everyone's like. Yeah, you know so generally. The conversation goes all right, so here's that we're not even moving the needle. What we're almost there like we could, we can do this. We just have to coordinate better. This is not an engineering. Problem is a coordination problem. A lot of this is building on the work of. Many colleagues of mine in previous eras on open source hardware Vasteras Lienz. Field Ready Dot Org worked with a number of times in their. That's been their their wheelhouse for many years. Also I should mention. My colleagues compromise. Consulting Company for. It NGOs and so Internet help people suck less doing good I'm the one here talking to you about it, but I it's it's all possible. Because of a lot of people a lot of moving parts. What is the biggest challenge to making this actually happen and making function in a way that it needs to. Do on technical level because we're not building a platform because we're just building. This framework really is not the most challenging part. Honestly, the most challenging part is the funding sources you know to do this right would take a a pretty small team. A few months working closely with the tech teams other established companies that have their own in house budget. But we just need a small team to like Ford new full-time. And I've gone through probably twenty volunteers who have been in okay need to look for work. Okay, found work. I gotta go in general impression from the last several years of trying to do stuff like this and talking to folks have been doing much longer. Is that people will want. Easy fix problems that they can point to especially if they're investing. They WANNA be able to say okay. Well I give this company X. Many dollars and they made an APP. That ship did these things or whatever? The low hanging fruit is easy to point to. It's easy to fund. It's really hard to find people who have another ahead for systems that you can clean them why this is a systems engineering approach just struggled to find the resources to do full-time. It's hard right now. I mean it makes me one you know with the scale of this disaster and the devastation that's being caused by not having a system is functioning properly. Why on people scrambling to fund it. I honestly don't know. We've applied to five or six different big grants that have gone out and nothing infrastructure is not sexy. Really what we're trying to build is a distributed infrastructure in much the same way that allows the the infrastructure that makes the possible is self very not sexy. This is setting up the TCP IP protocol for open source hardware if we were really. America centric if we were really like we want to solve this problem for Silicon Valley I'm sure we would have had people throw money at us, but from where I stand that this this isn't a success, if it's not just as useful to people running a clinic in refugee camp, as it is to someone, you know, New York general, there's refugee camps of a millions of people that are just getting hammered right now. There's no publicity. Publicity in these are people who are literally sifting through garbage dumps to cut coke bottles open to make feels so they can go back to treating people in a tent is our way that perhaps the the members of the supply chain so that companies can pot of funding it given that it's benefit to them. I think it's possible. Certainly from the conversations, I've been having the last several months, and all the work done so far. At this point, I can kind of bring together at the. Company leadership from. At least one organization at each of those layers described. And it used to get into okay. This is what we need for. Proof of concept is what we'd like. The stretch goals what we want to try to do whatever we need to get out of. This is looking everyone. Put on the table and just just figuring out definitely, and it seems a bit of a no brainer in the sense that it's it's kind of creating shed, value, network, or that shed value environment where by participating in a network like this, you're increasing urine productivity, our new iron effectiveness in your own impact. It will likely require air those people going to their investors or taking out a small business loan against their current business. Donald I don't think groups have like you know. Slush funds like my bad. Yeah, sorry Nathan I. Guess this kind of makes me wonder. Why is the system? Sorry dysfunctional, currently you know if you look at it from an ideological perspective, you know it's a great way to direct yourself crazy because nothing makes sense. But if you look at it from the perspective of incentive structures, people generally do exactly what they're incentivized. Do you know a great example? Is that nobody invented? Las Vegas because they wanted to optimize humanity for hedonism Las Vegas exists because. Even structure in a regulatory environment and Nash Equilibria, in Games of chance, a rational central planner with God's, you might have thought you know. There's a quirk in dopaminergic reward circuits where activities with a slightly negative risk-benefit at the same emotional valence, says activities, the positive there senator ratio should educate people to be where he starts in the same way we have. We have incentive structures where people look at sort of the things ahead of them, regardless of how those things were intended to be used or risk of. The artifacts in clay. People follow their lives. And the incentives that they have are to move Labor to wherever the labor laws are weakest and to. Pull whatever strings they can to keep those laws week. Same with environmental regulations, etc, to assume that a fossil fuel driven shipping economy will remain steady in stable and profitable, and to spend billions of dollars every year creating needs so that when you produce things that economy of scale and great millions more than any actually one you find ways to make people by. visit the incentives of the global supply chain at Nova point anywhere in there. Is it incentivize to get people what they need to survive at no point anywhere is it incentivize to prepare for disasters at have more than you need on hand? So coordinated action is the only way that we have to get out of this building systems of. Decentralized, mutual building systems of re localized fabrication, the means of production in in the very special sense of that word is use used know the means of production have been attenuated end and. Sent far far away very deliberately at it is. Turn the. Place where people either make things. They can't afford to buy or buy things they don't automate so. Does this mean that you know what we call the Fed sector helping sector the? Social impact space how we want to make it known as does this mean that those spaces are? Essentially fighting a losing battle without that extra piece of coordination that you're talking about I would say so, I mean Lord knows. Billions of dollars have been allocated towards aid nonprofits, and we seem to be heading further down the toilet here, so untrue would be worse without it, but not necessarily she read books like dead aid, but the the tens of billions of dollars aid had gone. Africa have absolutely made things worse across the board. There's a lot in the model itself. That's broken. Look at the history of like environmental protection nonprofits, especially in the US from like the seventies on and easy the same thing you variety regulatory capture end compromise principles. Now there's like. Forget which one it is, but they. Wildlife Refuge run by a very successful environmental defense fund kind of entity in Texas. That has an oil well On. It the animals. Where we're successful, we've partnered with Exxon and we're you know we're cutting remorse or whatever? There's a lot of ways that the helping sector. Is. Morally vulnerable to the people writing the checks lately back in. The seventies when? All of what ended up leading to the EPA, the creation of the pregnancy that can on the end of A. Long string of really intense lawsuits, really aggressive stance towards corporations at the super effective originally. We're really happy about it, and so they've started being well if you were with the. Money everyone's already to say ONA we should be. We should be friends with them, and that hasn't worked clearly. I mean it's the it's the problem we're seeing on every level. around the world is as more and more money concentrates fewer and fewer hands. The decision making power about what is actually possible in who can do it becomes. Increasingly concentrated in. It's pretty well documented at this point. Money pushes you to the right. Ideologically absolutely and I mean it makes me think of situations where corporations are. offered. Board positions for the. Not for profits that they donate to, therefore they have veto power for the project. The kind of projects that this nonprofit is able to fund, and when you look at it like that, it seems absolutely mad. Base its reputation laundry absolutely and you look at the shed value model, which says that corporations should contribute to social issues in society as a way to also look increasing their productivity, and also increasing their profits while solving social challenges, and that reputational laundering that you just you just say eloquently. Actually fits perfectly into that model. It does but you still have things like fiduciary responsibility? For those familiar. Look it up. It's it explains a lot, but basically the short version is that the CEO of of any for profit company has a responsibility to shareholders to maximize their profits above literally anything else. If that CEO is like well, I shaved a few percent off of our prophet, so that I could do this thing to support our workers or raise wages, or whatever that CEO Cannon Barry frequently is fired immediately for breach of fiduciary responsibility and replaced with someone who do that. And I guess that's why this idea of social enterprise and be corpse has come out is to challenge that model where I am. I mean we're we are in the beginning of a time of great change, and no one really knows what's coming next the times of greatest change in chaos at the times our greatest leverage. I think for anyone trying to do right now. The deck is pretty heavily stacked against us, but it's also a very real opportunity to have an effect much bigger than we have in the past. Even just look at what the George Floyd protests have been doing accomplish more in the last four weeks than any major civil rights action. I can think of there's. Like ten times more. Individual, protests going on then after an okay was assassinated, he think technology has a huge role to play in all of this. The George Floyd protests the covid response. Makes me wonder this isn't the first large scale disaster we've had, and it's certainly not the first where we've had technology available to help us. Solve it or respond to it, quicko. Why don't we learn by Goto Line? Here is is a a quote from George Bernard Shaw says that that we do not learn much from the lessons of history itself a greatest lessons of history. Rape I mean. Think about what would be required to You it would require. Investment in infrastructure long term thinking it would require allocating public resources towards things with no obvious immediate benefit so that you can be ready for. And we have a little economic system which is inextricably married to each other, but are not incentivized to do that. The system that we've created the politicians have to exist in incentivizes then to whatever it takes to get elected into. Say whatever it takes to get away with not doing it because they'll be out before any. It is a systemic little problem. And I I'm not really optimistic about reform or Tweaking knobs here and there. And it makes me think of you know social welfare systems that a set up essentially to respond to the symptoms of a problem rather than the problem itself and a refusal to invest in preventive mechanisms, because the scale of seeing results of that is too long. And also kind of going back to what you just said about political systems, and how they're set up I mean obviously the fact that government term here in straight areas social in the US it for years. It doesn't really give you a lot of time to implement long-term plans without the consent that the next government or the opposition is going to come in and change them. It's exacerbated by the voting system by sort of winner-take-all approach, which is created a two party system unlike what is found most functional democracies. In which the founding fathers explicitly were terrified of happening. And it leads to greater polarization in greater partisanship etcetera On Patriot Act check it out, but with ranked choice voting. You wouldn't have this problem like burning a strengthening right away. Because he'll never win. You can still support people, and you can form coalitions, and you can create congressional in terms, civility but winner take all is again. incentivizes people know. What's happening in the states is extraordinary right now, probably the understatement of the century. But externally kind of looking at what is happening and the misinformation and the propaganda and you know obviously you're leading up to an election. They're so. Things are only going to kind of increase on that front. How does that impact response in this space for what you're doing God? It's been such a cluster, fuck. So for example. This part. Party economic one of the things that we found in trying to distribute open-source medical supplies. especially in the early months, whenever was really desperate Seeing nurses, wearing trash bags, instead of gowns and things like that doctors who would publicly on their private twitter, whatever announced that they needed p. e., or solicit donations or anything like that. We're using fired on the spot and the company would have to like make some statement denying even if it was entirely a hundred percent true that they were all out of Ian Doctors driving like reuse their mass for a week or whatever. So a lot of that had turned into you know. Shipping it to a doctor's private residents in bringing in their personal stash quote unquote. Again Hospitals Systems incentivize to make a profit at if people aren't feeling the emergency rooms with normal injuries at all, they're giving covid Ovid. That's less profit to. They're serving fire nurses and tell the comeback volunteers without cheating. They want in some places. This is motivated by the political partisanship. That has indulge this whole thing. In some places, it's just point economics. It is amazing to me. To live in a country that has managed to turn. Whether or not, you should observe basic safety pandemic into partisan political issue trying to fill rally stadiums. New Rally stadiums with people without masks, and it's just one going to watch the lead up to that and to watch. Go ahead it is. It's mind blowing you heartening to say that it was not full. Big, thanks to teenagers on TIKTOK. But. Yeah, it is it's it's mind boggling as well to understand why Alita push that. I mean as someone who grew up kind of expecting a bullion. Gibson future I feel like the future that we have is is constantly both stranger and more disappointing than I ever imagined. So I i. want to ask you what we do to make sure we capture the lessons now. A lot of what spurred this project is looking at the duplication of effort looking remission wheels, looking at people spinning organizations to solve one problem, which as soon as they run out of funding or go back to work or burn out. The volunteers will disappear all that data will be lost in the silo. That website will go down the now. Everyone the next time. We have to solve this problem again somewhere else in the same place from trash. thinking a lot about this because we don't have time to do this again, some of it just comes down to data standards, so for example in the the open source hardware world, there is a product dental working on a number of folks for the last couple of years called open. Know How it is essentially a Universal Open Harbor Brigade Standard. All of the information that you would need. To create an object should be contained within this file that you can just send someone and like okay. Great this this actually contains everything. The CADFAEL to bill materials the assembly instructions. You know photo of what you did. What did you look like how it works out? There have been a number of attempts, and there are a number of different frameworks for. It instead of impact, work or social work. There's the UN's develop goals framework in the irs framework printed it, but those don't really capture. Process their distant impact metrics? There are projects like the stera project. S. P. H. E. R. A. Dot. World relief would attempt to create a of a modular. Pick your different pieces and put them together. However, your NGO works in like describe your process with, but it's never really got off the ground. I don't know what the tool is might might be one that we have to make. It might be nearly as building on what it's already there, but bulleting said we need at the very least a place that can just start capturing what worked. What didn't from all these groups and archive dot org of Google Docs to? You know whatever it is saying like all right? This was our entity. We split up. You know for this disaster. We did these things. These work teams didn't even Catherine. Stations, it's something to really do this. You would need groups that had actually been doing the work on the ground. Even get a get a half dozen together and say okay. Can we all document what we were doing? What we learned in this same format work for inside. You can get pretty far doing that. You don't need a lot of resources to do it, but if you can get it to where those interventions or machinery credible. Then you can start doing things like you can call them into meaningful database. Okay Nathan I want to bring it back to you a little bit more now. What is it about the work that you do? The U. N. naturally drawn to. And what is it that challenges you the mice to find the mice challenging? I feel like I was always that kid staring off into space in a building castles. In my mind, all of this came from looking at the systems modeling, my head and playing out what it was going to do saying well, that's not gonNA work. It's just how my brain works I didn't really think that what I'm doing. Now was a career I didn't know that it existed as an option when I was younger. I. Don't know that Britney called a career now it's. It might be one eventually. That pays me, but it's thing that I am passionate about ten, doing the low hanging fruit is easy in sexy, and and it's it. It gets funded than people make an opera do a thing, and it feels good and drugging wrong of these things do help. People absolutely helped people I. Don't think them help on the scale that's needed and anything in a way that that could never scale to what is needed and as a systems thinker for me to poor energy into one of these low hanging fruit, said abandoned solutions feels disingenuous. It's incredibly challenging to do good in the world in a way that is persistent. How is your concept of doing good evolved over the years. I had very limited exposure to people in general when I was younger and a lot of my work in my. Thirties in particular has really been. Becoming aware of you know. Racism, that by inherited growing up becoming aware of these biasi, becoming aware of. The White Savior Complex, and all these things like. How to talk less listen more learning the. A good question is worth fifty answers. Learning to slow down and understand things with greater depth before jumping in and trying to solve the surface problem because you're using is making it worse. Is this someone that's Phoenix big influence on you in doing good? I have been lucky enough. In the last handful of years to have a few people that kind of started off as heroes become Peter's friends. There's folks like Dr Dots for example is one of the one of the founders of field ready. Checkout Ted Talk. She's doing really good stuff now. In different projects in also Andrew Lamb still with them and call the get on compromise metal. has been working in this. Systems, design end? Maker Movement distributed manufacturing for many many years more than me at is absolutely brilliant and getting to to work with her and be. Her friend has been a surprisingly wonderful thing in Los Angeles here's evened out Britain from S. Electronic Frontier Foundation is incredible inspiration over work that she does protecting journalists and dissidents around the world from. Surveillance getting to have these people in close circles has been a huge inspiration accent will We'll try to put is in share nights as well. Nathan, this is a philosophical question. It drawn from the work of combing Pyeho. And asks. What do you think the greatest social challenge of our time is something that future generations would look back on and wonder what on earth we were thinking given. The existential threat posed to you know our species in most of life on this planet climate change, which is driven by capitalism, I, think capitalism itself is is the greatest that needs to dissolve. You cannot have infinite growth on a finite. Use can't we knew about those limits to growth? Thirty forty fifty years ago. but you know the incentives to get people to stop for there are. They weren't powerfulness if we can't solve that if we can't solve. The profit motive, outweighing life and happiness. You're not even. Just life on this planet. If we can't figure out how to solve that, there is no society to have social problems. The good news is that the time to do is now. It's also the news Nathan. If you could tell the world, something in every single person would hear it. What would it be? I will I will share the the words of someone wiser than myself with you. Something I come back to a lot. Today, I wish! I didn't have to explain to people. He'll need dream worth having instagram that you will live while you're alive. I only when you are dead. To love to be loved to never forget your own insignificance to never get used to the unspeakable violence in vulgar disparity away around you. To seek joy in the saddest places to pursue beauty to its layer. Never simplify what is complicated or complicate, but is simple. To respect strength, never power, and above all to watch to try and understand, it's never look away and never never forget. Beautiful. And that by? Roy Beautiful Nathan. Is there someone you can think of? Who you think has led well through this crisis. Someone. WHO's doing a lot of good right now? One of the groups that I've. been involved with Bene- a partner in building this. Universal the open standards mentioned. A group called Bookie, factory and Chris. A rebel is one of their founders. and. They said A. Collaborative open source system or sharing improving on designs for covid response call dining barrel response that I owe but like ever since this began. We've been. We've been talking pretty regularly. They have just been all in on trying to solve this and they've actually managed to. Get further or not like building real collaborative system that will actually captured this information these learnings for next time. Better than anyone else that I've seen and was not a lot of resources. Wicky victories great. awesome, let's. First President, complaint. Nathan. Where's your favorite place on f? I spend a Lotta time in southeast. Asia I really might markets. I, I lived in a militant Taipei for about six or seven months. And like everyone knows about Thailand Thailand. Thailand is the place everyone goes Taiwan. Surprisingly historic plays a lot of people do is the friendliest people the best food. It's gorgeous. That's how much of the island is still undeveloped. But there are big cities where everything is happening, and you can have it all one little place, but out of all the places in the world that had been which is on the twenty twenty-something countries. I felt like the the friendliness was so genuine there as as differentiated from politeness. A genuine warps. We have some technical issues with the last part of our recording. So unfortunately we don't have Nathan. He had to wrap it all up. However I can share that. Nathan is currently writing. A book called the peripheral by William Gibson, and he's listening to a podcast on history called the dollop. If you want to find out more about Nathan and he's work, you can contact him through linked in or twitter. That's Nathan PARCO and check out his work with an amazing organization called on compromise. Also, when now producing resource sheets for each episode, containing links to the books, websites, podcasts, papers, poetry and philosophy mentioned in each episode. Thanks for listening to the good problem podcasts. Do you WanNa lend more about doing better doing good. I work with leaders from business, nonprofit and philanthropic sectors to achieve aligned ethical and sustainable impact, I also offer coaching and mentoring to individuals and small business owners on how to integrate purpose and create positive impact to find out more. Follow me on, instagram at underscore, Leigh Matthews or check out my website at www dot, leigh matthews dot Com. Don't forget to subscribe and share.

Nathan US America Yulia Me Leigh Matthews twitter Cambodia Nathan Poker incentivizes William Gibson depression siler normand Ni mike
V1.02  Nathan Bedingfield (Mason Ramsey, Ryan Hurd, Mac Powell, Marc Martel)

The Tour Bus Podcast

1:24:12 hr | 8 months ago

V1.02 Nathan Bedingfield (Mason Ramsey, Ryan Hurd, Mac Powell, Marc Martel)

"And welcome to the tour bus. Podcast A platform bill by working musicians to help you get more auditions more. Gigs more. What I'm Jay Aka the tour bus driver and today my guest is Nathan Field Nathan plays for Mason Ramsey Just an incredible incredible young talent in the country music world the kid was selling out arenas at the age of twelve and my Buddy Nathan. Got The play forum and me and Nathan. Go Way back way back. I'm at Nathan. When he was just a young kid. His mom pride dropped him off at this guitar clinic. I sold a pedal felt bad for because I didn't want the pedal and this kid didn't need the pedal but he was willing to pay for the pedal so I sold it to and this is fifteen. Gosh fifteen twenty years ago and he was just a little kid. I was a barely older. That a little kid and just sparked a great friendship. And I've gotten to watch Nathan grow from this young annoying musician that used to change all his settings after soundcheck and whatever to Getting to play for some incredible bans some incredible stories from the road. Some credible lessons learned that. We're going to dig in together and hopefully That resonates with any Young musician at any point in your career. Whether you're just getting started as a musician or you've been doing paid gigs. For for a long time. You've been road dog for a long time. You'RE GONNA get a lot out Nathan story so pop on the bus. Grab a seat stay tuned and enjoy this conversation with Nathan battlefield. This was so much freaking fun. These songs are amazing. Thank you for letting me audition. Please call me to do this GIG. And they didn't ultimately it was the best thing. Ever this is Nashville touring. Really if they say. Your soundtrack is from four four fifteen. You don't roll up at four three. You know there was a lot I got wrong. I'll tell you that for sure. There is a lot like what like? Let's pick some artists work so much harder than you think. They do. Be Be one less thing they have to worry about. I gotTA call from his management one day and they're like hey you referred to us by four Georgia lines. It was like Beetle Mania. Man It was so Nathan Man. Thanks for being here. Absolutely right as you take a bite. No I took a took a Swig of Lacroix. Right as you said. Thanks for your. I can see your pinky in the air. No it was definitely in the air. Fancy yeah you are. You're actually during that grapefruit Lacroix and you're a watch guy too right though man so much. What's more than I wish I was. What's Your What's your favorite Watchi- up a couple of years ago Some friends of mine got together. Like twelve friends of mine. I should preface with this got together and got me a really great watch that they felt like represented me really well And they nailed it really hard and for anybody. Who's a watch nerd? You'll understand this anybody who's not you won't appreciate this at all. So I'm sorry in advance for that but they got me a An IWC mark eighteen pilots watch that Nice man it's like it's like me in a watch They nailed it. They did this totally behind my back. I remember inviting some friends over for dinner like a random January night a few years back and we were just hanging out having Chili and and being buddies you know just around the kitchen island and listening to music and and all of a sudden they they got together and we're like they gave me a card and then gave me a little box with this beautiful Watching it because I kind of like got some of my friends into watches again. Go ahead and give myself credit for that right. Yeah I mean you know it was me so some of my friends do pretty well in this music. Business and Started buying you know. Really great great timepieces. That meant something to them. And could you know be heirlooms for their kids one day right? I kinda got turned onto the watch thing when my grandfather passed away. My Grandmother gave me his watch which means it means a lot to me but it was just you know it was a cheap walmart. Watch but I wear every day. I would tell my friends about how much it meant to me and how I felt like we should all start moving into this this area when we're buying cool stuff like maybe we should. Maybe we should think about like passing stuff down to our sons and maybe we should think about passing stuff down to our son-in-law's if we're if we ever have them some day yeah just cool. Heirloom kind of factor. Right because a lot of folks. These days probably aren't thinking as much about that no I mean it in all intents and for all intents purposes rather like the watch the mechanical watches dead the the Apple Watch or all these smart watches do so much cooler stuff than what a Mechanical Watch does. But there's no soul in an apple watch you know what I mean? It is just a tool. There's no like you you don't know that a guy in Switzerland put this together with a monocle and like you know a loop and put all this stuff together over months at a time and created this incredibly accurate like things and put it out into the world and he's not gonNA UPDATE IT. He can't send it security updates or exactly. There's none of that coming down the line. It just has to work and what's great about like some of these old watches to me and I'm sorry. This is super not musical related in this nerdy. But but like there's a beauty and we can relate this to guitar in a way but like there's a beauty in the fact that a craftsman put this thing together And spent six months at a time doing this thing. That is incredibly beautiful. Incredibly functional and artistic and in a huge way. And there's a heart and soul in this thing that you know doesn't put in a lot of Modern good sure sure so anyway. My friends you know loved me well enough to understand that. This meant a lot to me and That I didn't make very much money At the time and so they all like to like I said ten or twelve got together and wrote a card for me and pitched in and they started a little go fund me and bought me this really great. Watch so yeah. That's that's like my favorite thing that I own is just this like beautiful time piece. That really represents how well I loved by my community of people. That's also that's also dude. Sent me a picture of it and I'll get it up on on the site when I post this. I absolutely will. Here's my favorite. Here's the watch we talked about. Yes my favorite thing. I absolutely will awesome man so man. I'll just I've been looking forward to this interview in talking kind of with all the guys you know the whole point is I know everybody that we're talking to on this season and have known you guys for a long time but you're one of the guys. Yeah you're one of the guys that I kind of really saw grow up because you were just a little kid. The first time we met it seems like there's no doubt you know and so so you're you and your brother. Sammon or probably my favorite stories to watch and tell about because I've gotten to really watch you guys go on to do just incredible things and it's awesome. Yeah yeah no absolutely in Super Proud of proud of you guys and so excited to talk to you about that journey today and let's talk through some of that so way back when I was teaching at some music conference and we were. We had the bright idea to sell our old pedals out in the lobby to the kids that paid good money to come be at this conference. And you're one of those kids and you ended up by a talk box off of me and I'd somehow convince I did that. You were going to use that in in praise and worship Church music a lot or something and I feel I feel terrible still about that but but then should you know and then you know I don't know five six years later I think we I was. I was with Chris at the time we were looking for guitar player and I was like. Let me get this kid Nathan He's got a super heart So what's your friends did for you. you absolutely deserve. That's no doubt no and so I want this kid. I WanNa see this kid grow. So let's let's bring them on and so and then man from there. You just went headstrong into the music career so I guess. Walk through like like walk me through. What gave you the bug and urge to move up in the Christian music world and then out of that. That's a great question first of all. Let me address the talk box thing. I was way into the talk box. Because and if you're a young guitar player and you don't know who Peter Frampton is you need. You need to know Frampton pause the look him up yet. Pause this look Peter Frampton and basically like the reason that I got. Hooked on guitar was because of Three different artists one of them was easy. Top hands down. If you can't play lagrange you need to learn how to play the grange. Just going to go ahead and put that out there. It's three chords. And then learn every solo in a minor pentatonic blues scale. Whatever like that second for sure was led Zeppelin and third was Peter. Frampton Frampton comes alive and there was a ton of talk box in that And I got. I bought that talk box from you at that table because I was like well Frampton Dope. I need to learn how to do that. And Jay's cool J's got it figured out he's on a stage. He's Playing Guitar. He's gotTa Talk Box. I should have talk box. I should have Jay's talk exactly turns out you don't eat a talk box to do this but you should learn some Peter Frampton licks because the guy knows what is up with rock and roll guitar especially if you play Les Paul which I do. And so yeah. That's why I bought your talk box from you and okay. It had a purpose and and we thankfully it sparked a friendship between you and me because you were weird enough to buy one and so was I. We do have that. We have that in common we have. We have talked boxes and cool guitars and common so yes fast forward a couple years and I'm I'm playing. I'm working at a big church in Atlanta and play in with some really incredible players and really the catalyst for me moving to Nashville was a talking to one of the germs that I played with weakened and week out and is named Scott meter and I feel talk to him or want to even mention his name. And you can cut this out if you want to but we might reach we might absolutely dot Scott. I know Scott no I mean Scott. I think Scott is one of the best drummers that I've ever heard much less gotten to play with the guys like me's incredible and he played on every major recording session in Atlanta in a really pivotal block a time when Atlanta had a really great recording and recording scene. Basically like there was there was a lot of time. There's a big block of time. Where a lot of records are getting made in. Atlanta and Scott played on most of them serving. Yeah and he played in thirty eight special which was super cool to me because I was like a big southern rock fan and anyway I'm playing with sky at Church one day. We're talking about kind of future stuff and and I don't even know if he remembers this what he was just like. Hey man you you're good you you should move to Nashville if you if you can Because you have what it takes and you know for whatever reason he was like dude man like your your age and your your age and your single and like what are you. What are you waiting for shot? Because I had been talking to him about Ma'am considering like is this. Something I should do is. Is this pond too big for me to jump into and he was just somebody that. I was looking up to at the time and any and still do and he said Do you're single. You're great you should do it. Like why not lose so I I was really comfortable and really happy living in Atlanta and love how I was making a living playing music in Through church stuff through playing with An amazing Christian artist Aaron Schuster and also with a guy. Mac Powell who was in a band called third day for. I don't know twenty five years and when he would do solo stuff. I would go play guitar for him and I was like man. I'm living the dream. This is awesome But I think having that conversation with Scott. Kind of like revealed to me how insulated my world maybe was Not In a terrible way at all like a very good way. But I wasn't really being pushed to be a better player And it just became very evident to me that I needed to get I needed to get into an uncomfortable place in that wasn't going to be in Atlanta. It was going to be in a new town. Full of Fulla guys. That were miles ahead of me. Sure as far as like sure how they how they approached the instrument that I had like more or less committed my life to understanding and finding myself a role for in the live and studio genre like I just wasn't getting pushed in Atlanta the way that I am. I didn't even know that I wasn't getting pushed until I kind of had that conversation with him and he was just very encouraging is like you can do this. You can jump into the bigger pond and do it so I came home to my roommate at the time who I was Had Been Roommates with for a long time and and I think you already interviewed him but Incursion me and Christian Pasco lived together for Gosh almost ten years Throughout our twenties and early thirties and I came home and I was sad to tell him I was like. Hey man like I really feel strongly like I need to move out and move out of this. Little Utopia that we've created ourself in Atlanta and moved to Nashville and jump in the in the bigger pond and He the fun part about that was he said man. I've been thinking the same thing. I just was kind of afraid to say it To to other people as well and he was in a position at the time with artists he was playing with that that that transition for him would have been very Lateral Lick it. Wouldn't have cost him very much right. He was like man. Let's do it. Let's go let's move together and and we called another one of our buddies who was Guitar checking for a lot of people at the time and he was living in Atlanta. And you know. He wasn't in love with being there he was. Kinda he had lived in Nashville before and was looking for a reason to move back and so we called them up and he was like man. Get a three bedroom house. I'm coming with you nice. So we packed up a u haul truck December. I'm sorry November of two thousand fifteen and just moved ourselves up here. So how long? After that initial conversation was that it wasn't long man. I think it was like four to six months like it was like we kinda got our our affairs in order and found the right house and I mean it was not a it was a it was a kind of a crappy house in in the artistic neighborhood of East Nashville but it was. You know it had everything that we needed at three bedrooms and a full basement so we didn't have to get storage unit and we ended up living next door ironically enough to the guys from cage the elephant which was Super Fun and educational in and of itself. Like yeah it was. It was really cool like everybody. And then the people on the other side of our house were all in Pr Music Management So. We had like these cool like not very many of them but like kind of like bonfire hangouts with our our neighbors that you know were really educational and fun and into kind of how into kind of how the the next level of the music business worked Yeah it was really really really close and fun. Yeah so no. Your roommate Christian was one thing. But what about television Mac or Erin or or some of the artists who were traveling with the time and kind of committed to and You know you were probably traveling a good bit at the time. And and how'd you? How'd you get into that role here in Atlanta first? Let's back up and talk about that. And then what about from the artist's perspective during the transition? Did you learn anything or was there anything that was challenging? Yeah no absolutely yeah so Before I played music fulltime I was working in a warehouse. I was working any job basically that I could. They would allow me to play guitar as much as possible with other people And so that kind of construction and You know cutting lawns or whatever you know and then that eventually led to a job working for a really great company with a really great boss that I should mention Interst interstate batteries of north. America is a great company. And I gotta say they were fully supportive of me going in on a Friday insane. Hey I'm sorry I can't. I can't come to work on Monday because I have a job going on tour and they were like awesome. You've been great. Come back anytime so. I'm still holding that to interstate batteries in Kennesaw Georgia. That I can come back at any time in case any of this doesn't work out. Yeah might be calling them up soon with with might become. Iras time to work in the warehouse in Stack batteries for car dealerships but No I remember working Living in Kennesaw Georgia. Which is if any of y'all know is look forty five minutes north of of Atlanta in the little community where I grew up in Had A great job in just didn't go to work every day Loving what I did. I love the people that I worked with but I knew that it wasn't what I was supposed to be doing with my life so thankfully I'd had a relationship with a an awesome guy a MAC towel who Was the lead singer of a band called Third Day for twenty five years and I'd done some recording sessions for Mac for some bands that he was producing on the side and artists that he was working with that he just needed players for and we had gone to church together and Just been been friendly with one another. He knew I play guitar and he knew I was like you know pretty decent at it at least and I and for a budget project I was the great call at at Nineteen twenty years old but I remember calling him and saying like Mac. I can't stand going to work every day doing something I hate Is there any chance that you could hire me to do anything involving music at all? And he went. I'll call you back. And he took like an hour to call me back but his credit he was really thinking about like. Hey Is there anything that I do for this kid and thankfully he goes man? It ain't much but there's a tour that I'm doing with A bunch of artists and we need a stage like tech like backline guy Somebody can help like do. Grocery store runs for the bus during the day. Basically like an assistant to the tour manager won't even call it assistant tour manager. Assistant to the tour manager That's what I was. I was dwight basically from the office. for this tour and I just Kinda did all the the heavy the heavy lifting like all this stuff. Nobody wanted to do And I was really happy to do it because I wasn't stacking battery car. Batteries pallets and shipping them off every day. And that on that tour. I met a an amazing worship artist named Aaron Schuss. Who at the time like had songs on the radio and and and was was doing the thing man? He was touring and he needed a guitar. Player really bad and MAC and another buddy of mine. Jason Hoard basically advocated for me in the short tour that I was on you know. Fill in the bus with ice and water and getting food and that kind of thing. They just advocated for me. It was like Hey. You should hire nate to come in and play guitar. He he'll he'll play it for you. He's hungry he's young he's ready to go And I did Erin. Sight unseen to his credit was like Gin. You WanNa come onto our with me. You're the guy and and I've been doing it ever since that was two thousand nine eleven so almost ten years I haven't had another job other than playing guitar. Wow yeah it's kinda crazy man like he. He totally took a chance on me. Based on some you know friends recommendations and you know I I would say. I've told mackin Jason this before but I'm I'm forever grateful to those guys for For sticking their neck out and and given me a shot to really step up to the platen and take a swing. You totally it and and we'll thanks. It would not have been hard to go off of those those dudes recommendation. Either not at all. I mean there's some of the best musicians and and and songwriters that I know so thankfully that led to about I think it was like five or six years with air and where I lived in Atlanta and in toured with Aaron. Pretty much nonstop and kind of got to learn the ropes of how to do how to do a tour. How how many how many dates per year maybe on average you know I'd say averaged out. It was probably eighty or ninety shows a year For for five or six years so it was. It was a lot and you know the cool thing that happens when you start playing with an artist. That's got songs on the radio. Is that other people. Start to take you seriously. Even though I wasn't really that much better of a player than I was before it was just like. Oh somehow there's like some validation now And you get to play on records and you get to play you know other stuff and it. Kinda like at least for in my experience. It gave me some enough like credibility to go. Do some stuff that I hadn't been able to do before or probably even thought about doing. Yeah totally like just maybe stuff. I'd thought about doing but stuff that people wouldn't have hired me before I had had the credential of like. Oh He's been on three or four different tours now and he he knows how this whole thing works I it's crazy how that lake that little door opening led to so much more and I'm eternally grateful to those guys. Yup Aaron Jason Mac for kind of helping me get into that next like that. Next year I guess of of Of touring which which doesn't negate like an should back up say like which doesn't negate the fact that like guys like you and Chris or in those guys gave me an entry level like into earn entry point into the level of doing it on kind of uneven. I won't even say a smaller level. Just a different level of work becoming acclimated with how to be on the road and how to play guitar and how to Rather how to play guitar when you're adapting to like just way different circumstances day to day different like different size stages where it's like. Hey today you got a great monitor setup and today you just GonNa have to roll with it. Can you remember when I turned that? Little Monitor on the Mike. Stand around to the sound guy because he was lying. Never Forget it was like I've got it. He's like there's nothing coming out of your monitor and as a as long as I live. I'll never forget it. I'll never forget that trip in my entire life has so many good stories too many worth mentioning actually anyway so so tobacco. We digress but one one you know. This is probably the fourth or fifth interview that I've conducted as part of this podcast endeavor and one theme that you're highlighting that I can go back to the previous interviews and call out so anybody this listen to them. We'll we'll remember. You were a Mac Powell and and Jason Hoard recommended you and that was fantastic. But you're the one that stuck your neck out and Khanna said Dude. Mack cannot do anything and I mean anything. So you took the initiative and you took the initiative and you're willing to do anything and that story is is is the same from our previous interviews right so I just WANNA call out to the folks listening that it's like you know that's good you know it's it's how a lot of these guys have made it and you have to be willing to do anything and sometimes you got to be willing to take the first step sure. Ten ten years ago you hung up the corporate life in the warehouse for a tour bus and haven't looked back. That was pretty consistent. So will you with Aaron Schuster when you decided to move to Nashville? Yeah I mean I I was kind of I would say I was kind of like a juggling a schedule where I was the I had been hired to be the music director at a church in Atlanta and kind of be responsible for musicians that were coming in and playing weekend and week out and playing with Aaron as as much as he wanted to be on tour which at the time he was. You Know He. He's a dad and wanted to be at home as much as possible. And and same with Mac like Mac was doing third day and also trying to do his own solo project and so it's kind of juggling like being the Church Music Director Which I really enjoyed in loved and and playing with Aaron and playing with Mac and I loved all of these things and I was really happy doing that. but I knew that like Aaron's priority was always GonNa be as family and I always really respected that and at the time and still to this day like. That's that's Aaron's emo is like. Hey I love you guys. Music Community But my family means more to me than any of this and that was my like I was. And that's what that's what. I'm loving about doing these interviews. Honestly as I'm getting to kind of live vicariously through you guys because I never really had the the dream to go live on tour bus for real or do the sure traveling music life like I do the corporate thing that's my Gig and then this is just fun because now just getting to to learn so much About that life that you guys but yeah so I can totally respect where errands coming from. And it's not for everybody and Kudos to anybody that can figure that out. Sooner rather than later I would say that I had the gift of being with frontman. Who had very a lot of clarity on what it is that they wanted and For Aaron it was it was his family and his Kiddos and his wife and he was just like a year. I'm GONNA do much touring as it makes sense. But my family makes more sense than touring does some focus. Way More on that in man. There's nothing I respect more in the world in that same you know. Same with MAC MAC. Has his his family is the priority and then he has music as this other thing that is a is a big part of his life but he had a band at the time that he was you know the front man of like like his band third day couldn't do shows without him and that that was where he was he was putting a lot of efforts and we were doing his solo stuff on the side when it made sense for him to do it and and there was no honestly none of us in. The band's had hard feelings about that. It was like we knew what we were getting into. So we we all had other jobs and for me. It was Other jobs on the side and for me it was working at a church and and I really enjoyed that that life but I knew I always knew that there was something more that I wanted to do. Creatively then. Not that there's anything wrong with with being a music director at Church and play in in that role. I really really loved and enjoyed that but I knew there was something more that I wanted to do and I didn't know what it was exactly but there was more like. I don't know if this is like I don't mean this in any other way than than say I don't mean this with any condescending tones it was just like I wanted something more creative and a little more challenging on my instrument for an and as you probably know full well like there is a. There's a beautiful amount of musicality that happens within worship music and and some really cool stuff that comes out of it a lot of stuff. I still learn a lot of stuff. I still learn from these guys do in it But there was no like dude. You're not playing like real guitar. Solos in worship music. Because that's not the point right exactly. Do you know what I mean and again. It's like you're playing stuff that fits the mood of of In the tone of what a church service needs But for me I was like man I wanna like walk out onto a catwalk and absolutely rip it and I think that's I think that's what God in heaven. Put me on earth to do absolutely still to like stand out there with a Les Paul and absolutely rip a Guitar Solo. And I'm not getting to do this thing that I feel like is in my soul to do in this genre and that's okay absolutely but you do have to if that's in your heart. I do think it's on. I think it's your responsibility to step out there and take a risk and go. I'm going to give up the safe thing and go do something that I feel like. My heart really desires so doubt. That was a big part of my like that was a big part of my shift towards the idea of Nashville and country music in particular which I'd grown up on That's where I started leaning towards it and it took you know those few like very crucial influential people to kind of push me over the cliff. Move No so so the cell phone I mean and and I work in the business world and end self-awareness in the business world is key to being confident. And what you're passionate about being confident what you're good at being confident what you're not good at so you know where not to waste your time. And so there's there's there's a lot of value in figuring that out and another thing that comes out of all these interviews. Is that you you need as much experience on the stage or in the studio doing your thing as you can to figure out which direction you need to go and and what your passion is musically so it's really about getting out there getting as many at bats as you hand absolutely and then being honest with yourself about where you WanNa go and going and seeking that out is what is what. I'm picking up at all these interviews but a thousand percent. Hey this is Jay the tour bus driver and it's time for a union break. So if you're a musician producer any kind of worker in the GIG ECONOMY. Then you're going to reach out to my friends. John and Kristy at element. Cpa See. John is a good friend of mine. In the business world recently found out that he started a new. Cpa firm that focuses on workers in the GIG economy and so people in film. Entertainment Music Uber Drivers. They all use the services element. Cpa You can read more on tour. Bus PODCAST DOT com slash element again. That's the tour bus. Podcast DOT com slash element? Here's a quick snippet from an interview I did with John Christie. That'll be coming out in a future. Podcast episode please check this out and give my friends John and Kristy College elements CPA. And then we'll get right back to our regularly. Scheduled program will element is a full service. Certified public accounting firm just happened to major in music film and entertainment and other Mike Minded Industries. We started out doing a lot of feature film more ten years ago and I would kind of branch out into other entertainment spaces and Atlanta New York. La and now Nashville in Miami sort of growing wherever entertainment happens preparation tax planning business management and consulting book keeping all of these services and these are services that we have tailored especially our clients in the entertainment industry. We're we're talking about two trillion dollars. They're trying to calm through different programs to get into people's pockets as fast as possible paycheck. Protection Program is a really confusing. Kroger right now for a lot of independent contractors. It may be better to be you know an independent contractor this drawing unemployment benefits and obviously every case is different. You need to really get some help and ask Which is going to be better than your particular situation. So hopefully this new we will bring some a little more news and a little more guidance on that for folks who need to really need those unemployment benefits flowing for them once again. That's my friends. John and Christine elements. Cpa can go to the two of us. Podcasts DOT com slash element to learn more. Let's get back on the bus and catch up with our guest. I toured with Aaron and Mac basically from about twenty two to twenty seven and kind of figured out. I love this thing. Got This this this lifestyle this road that I'm on like this like I really dug the being gone for a time and then being home for a time like that rhythm of life was very appealing to me and gave me a lot of joy in life so I yeah. I figured out that I was like nope. This is what I'm GONNA do. You Talk to Scott Utah to Christian right you Christian. Yeah Christian and I decided to make the move together And another friend of ours. Not One thing no like I Christian had kind of had the lateral move with. He was playing with David crowder at the time and he was like yeah. This is a lateral move for me. I'm good let's do it and I it for me. It was a little scarier because there wasn't really any thing to fall back on other than like a couple of friends that I had had in Nashville. That were interested. I guess in maybe having me audition for stuff you know and I was like What else what else am I going to do this? I have the steady gig. Let me let me just throw it out the window and go do some other stuff you know. It was it on paper. It didn't make sense at all and my friends in Atlanta. I didn't feel like I was making a wise decision but really Some of them. Yeah because I had a very steady thing going on your hand and and had been offered you know some some some really stable really stable job in Atlanta for more or less doing music In in the church world and and I was definitely open to it. But this This allure of what my what when I sat down and looked at what my goals were it was like I. WanNa tour at the highest level and. I'm never going to be able to do that with you. Know when I ten years from now. I'm twenty seven now. Now's the time to free can do it like let's go. Let's let's roll the dice. Let's put all the money on on black and let's go yup like and So so I did and I think I I don't necessarily think it takes that mentality but for me it sure did ALEC I. There was too much comfort in my world for me to not put it all on the line like I had to. Just go and trust that it was the right decision. Like God Almighty put it on my heart to move away from everything that had been comfortable for me and and go to something that was completely unknown. Like I had no idea what I was going to do. I just knew that I was going to call everybody. I knew and I was going to go out for every audition that came up matter what it was and I was like all right. I'm going to start over. Let's give it a shot. So so what all did you audition for you. Remember or do you have any good auditions stories for maybe the early. Yeah man I mean I like. I auditioned for a bunch of Christian artists. And I got some of those gigs and I went out and played shows with them for periods of time. And like you know I remember my friend When I was on tour with Aaron Schuster we we toured with a Christian band called down here. And which if y'all don't like the lead singer of down here is GonNa Marc Martel. The best singer that has ever lived earth. Did you do the? Did you do the camp with Chris and I in Tennessee? When down here played maybe so for whatever so real quick so many camps I know I know God So this was in Gatlinburg. I think pigeon forge sounder and add sounds right whatever. Whatever hotel we so we were the worship band and then down here was the opening band. I guess and the other and whatever the other guy in the band sings. They're big song at the time. I'd never heard of Marc Martel but the hotel we were staying in was like oh in went around Rotunda or something and that was the main meeting room so when they came into soundcheck after us. Like I'm taking a nap in my hotel room and I hear somebody sing in a Queen Song or something that wakes me up gets me out of my room to look out and see what's going on it turns out it's Martel and holy cow dude. Yeah everybody go look look go look it up right now. He seeing what? What did he sing for the Queen Audition So he if you look you look. Yeah if you look up. Mark M. A. R. C. Martell A. R. T. E. L. Queen Audition or something like that the guy sings somebody to love And Dare we say better. No I I would go. I would say yeah because mark doesn't smoker drink forty five beers a day like like Freddie Mercury did so his voice is just like insane like guy. It's he's he's one of the best thing that's ever lived and and not just the queen stuff. The Guy can sing opera concing like he's unbelievable and he's a great songwriter. And just fantastic human and I remember like he was putting together at the time like us a solo tour like apart from down here in thankfully he had asked me to go out with him and And so we rehearsed you. Know for a month and a half and we. We got this like really awesome band together with you know this guy named Tyler Warren. Who was on drums who actually is playing with. Queen now of all people. Yeah I mean just like this insane group dudes that were out there doing this and play in a who you know what you know. What do you mean a march connection to Queen and and That's how he got that GIG. If that's a networking. How much of that so so like Kinda? The reason that we had tyler playing drums and singing was because tyler had also auditioned for this. Okay let me back. Queen at the time was trying to put together a tribute band. Okay for themselves like that would tour the world and they were kind of officially sanctioned by Queen and Mark and Tyler both auditioned and both like slade it so that I guess that's kind of how they met in lived in In still lives in Nashville and in so when it came time for mark to put together a band it was like well. This other guy who lives here is amazing at this queen stuff. Let me and he can sing and he can play drums better than most in like. Yeah it was awesome like it was such a fun rock band to be a part of and the funny part is like it was. I listened through. I texted mark a month or two ago and it was just like man. I listen to our hersal recordings. We were freaking epic and we're playing to clubs of like thirty people on this tour like they were epic because mark was so epic. Anyway point being like that was like one of the first gigs that I got when the town was Margaret. Like can you please go on this tour with me and we did? We played a bunch of shows. And you know we. We rocked tens of people on that tour. And it's a shame because mark is seriously one of the best. He's one of the best that's ever ever been. And he's doing incredibly well now. Still kind of rocking the The Queen thing and actually that Bohemian. Rhapsody movie they used mark to do a lot of the vocal over dubs on. Because he's good I mean he is just like he's a freak of nature vocal Virtuoso and one of the best humans that I've ever met. I really love that guy so shout out to Marc Martel. Go look up all his music by it support him. He's amazing mark. If you're listening. I enjoyed that time at hotel. It's incredible you're the best buddy so yeah that kind of led to a season of living in like I don't know what's what's the next thing kind of after marks tour. I didn't know what the next deal was Randomly like my. My brother is a a bass player in a phenomenal win at that and had been playing with a young country artists at the time named Jordan. Reagan who is also incredible. And y'all will hear more from Jordan if you haven't already in the future but Jordan was getting ready to go on a radio tour. Which if you guys don't know is basically like you. If you're an artist you go on the road for three to four months at a time and Go to every radio station in the country and try to convince them play them songs and and convince them to put your songs on the radio and So Jordan needed a somebody to play Acoustic Guitar and CBGB's And go on this radio tour with them. And and the guy that he had lined up signed his own record deal in that means in. You know in that time and couldn't couldn't go with Jordan so I got the call and had to show up the next day knowing like four songs. Like Hey can you be? Can you be broken? Bow Records at two o'clock tomorrow and can you know these four songs in Singham and play him really well. And if you can like you're gonNA go on this radio tour and be ready to be gone for the next four or five months here life and So that's how HAP. What two questions? What what did you have to have prepared like in your psyche and in your ability as a player to be able to take that on like what gets you able to to take a GIG. The next day and the second question is how much pressure did you feel for Jordan to do well being that you know. This is obviously something. He's pushing hard for to to get you know the radio tour and he's trying to get a songs out you know you're what kind of pressure did you feel to help him. So that's a great question F first of all for me it was I think the ability to Chart Music Was huge like learning the number system and being able to kind of quickly remember at a glance looking down at a chart. What a song is without having fully absorbed it into your. I don't know I don't know the best way to say that. But like absorbed it into by Osmosis into your psyche. Like being able to the second teacher. You're you don't have you don't have time to memorize it. No I didn't I for sure did memorize it but I was able to read charts because that was the night before that they called me. They called me like nine o'clock at night and we're like beer too tomorrow. No I think it's funny. Yeah there's different ways people do an. I remember like one time posting that I was working on charts and I was using staff paper and I got a bunch of like I want you guys like busting my nuggets about like you staff paper nerd just use wide ruled like do. I need all that. I've got staff paper sitting on my desk right now. Because that's how I still like to chart my stuff out. You know what I do too. I like staff favor because it gives me so much space to make notes. It's the perfect off and on. I've totally agree. You got your lines that are close and then you got your lines. That aren't close. Collagen wide ruled mixed together. Well and it gives me like in. So don't let anybody give you crap about using staff paper if that's how you like to do it because it gives back favor. I am not as smart as like most musicians. I'll go ahead and admit that I've always admitted it. I am like totally like where can I find it advantage in? How do I capitalize on that So for me. Staff paper works best because it gives me so much space to write stuff out and if I want to know tate a specific line I can do it and I'm not even the best reader of music in the world and when I say not even the best I mean I'm pretty terrible at it but if I have to write notes out I have the space to do it and staff papers. So that's like and I think the varying is and again this is like a self awareness thing like write it out the way you wanna read it and exactly exactly on it. Always let it be in your handwriting. Always right just figure out what works for you and like I said we'll put some stuff on the site some examples and different different stroke. Yeah folks honestly I would say try to learn the way like the standard like especially if you're going to do like things professionally like learn at a standard as you can but also give yourself the space to go like cool. Thank you for the chart bandleader. I'M GONNA make my own chart so that I remember every little detail. Give yourself the grace enough to go like I. Even though some Stud bandleader gave you a chart your you may not be able to remember everything the way that you would. If you wrote it right you're used to seeing a B section right here not or whatever it just say notes are to help you remember hooks or author. You know different time subdivisions. Or whatever like give yourself all the advantages that you can to be able to execute whatever is in front of you as well as you possibly can. Yeah I would say that is crucial. Don't be too proud to make your own chart. Tiger Woods always says don't be afraid to t. One UP YEP YEP even on a par three like he's like don't be too proud to one up. Don't feel like you have to hit it off the deck meaning. Don't don't just play off what's given to you. Don't be afraid to make your own thing so that you can do the best when it comes to executing what you're doing absolutely yep net comes from self awareness and and being aware of what helps you in what hurts. What about what about the pressure? You felt What kind of pressure did you feel for Jordan? To make sure that he succeeded being that this was kind of his radio tour. And you're coming in very late notice like we're on you or you nervous anxious. Yeah it was heavy but it was also exciting because it was like man. This is what I asked for. Like you know in my kind of vision board of my life in like where ask asked for this amount of pressure so like you know my my brother in his wisdom and his young wisdom said main. Everybody deserves a chance to step up to the plate. And take a swing. Yup and and I was like man. He's you're so right. And at that point that was my that was kind of my opportunity to step up to the plate and take a swing on a. This is my first like who label Gig. You know what I mean like something with a lot of support behind it in every show that show. I say in air quotes like we're in conference rooms at at radio stations around the country but like but everything counted because it depended on us doing well so that the artists that I was playing with got the got the AD got his. His Song added to the radio. So that we could keep doing this thing. You know and So there was a lot of pressure but it was good pressure because I had asked for. It was like this is the challenge. I was looking for. This was the This is the fire was lit under me till like be as good as I could possibly be and I remember being like you know we'd have to get up super early to do some of these radio station things and I would get up an hour before normally would and I would do vocal warm up and I would drink tea and I would my fingers up and I would not have coffee before. We went to the radio station because it was like man. I WANNA make sure I'm singing. Great Sharon playing great. I want like I'm taking this very seriously because like this is this is my this. I own as much of this in my mind. As as Jordan does an even though Jordan's stakes way higher than mine like I took it. I took it really seriously Sometimes sometimes more seriously than people wanted me to. They're like man. Relax it's fine. I'm like no no no. It's not fine. I like. There's a lot riding on this and yeah that was a that was like my first introduction to like Nashville country label stuff was like this radio tour with this young country. Artists and You know Jordan blog D- a lot of miles together. You know what I mean in that in that short amount of time and that that kind of taught me how to be a good guy on the road Even though I had done the road for a long time it was just something outside of Christian music that I was doing. It was like me. And what does this guy need right now? He needs to go have a beer at buffalo wild wings. So we're going to go like he doesn't even know he needs it but he needs it so we're GONNA go or we're going to you know. Watch a baseball game somewhere together. Because it was a tough day or it. Yeah just kind of those like it's music plus the hang support. That support system is built in some way. It's big into the to a Christian You know in the Christian music world. That's Kinda built in absolutely where it's not as much if you break out of that. You know for his really bad that that's super accurate. And we he and I had a freaking blast hanging out for half a year ended up being us just being on the road four five days a week. We were taking good Lord. I don't know three four five flights every week just bouncing around all over the country in dude we we were road dogs for sure like we know each other really well and You know just spend all this time just going into radio stations in trying to do the best that we could Jordan Jordan's a He's Awesome. He's going to be one of the next class of like great young country artist in Psalm excited to see what ends up happening with him. But there was a there was a point in time. They're like in our story. That like the the label that he was part of kind of did a huge there was a big transition in country. Music where like at least on the business side where the label that he was part of got bought out by another bigger label and and sadly it led to him being like left out of that new agreement which sucks because he had great songs. And it's such a great artist and there's no doubt in my mind he's GonNa come back with like all the fire in the world so be on the lookout for that kid because he's awesome And in that time it transitioned into working with Skyteam Ryan. Heard who still in in my mind is like one of the best riders that country has in the game right now or maybe ever like the guys on believable but yeah I kinda got. He might be married to the second best writer. He's the best. Oh Yeah I mean. He's married to he's married to Marion. Morrison and like it's actually interesting. I auditioned for Marion and didn't get her GIG. But I think like there was enough like oh you were good. We just we're going to we. We just went with another guy but hey my you know my boyfriend at the time you're looking for a guy so like maybe we should. We should throw nate's Ryan. I don't I don't know how all that went down but I do know the protocol that probably a lot like maybe the same. The same bandleader was doing both Merrin and Ryan Gotcha And it's super interesting. Because I went and did the audition and was like this was so much freaking fun. These songs are amazing. Thank you for letting me audition by. Yeah please call me to do this. Gig. And they didn't and then like they were like. We're looking for a drummer and I was like. Hey y'all should call Christian because he's dope and he would slay this Yup Yup and think like I don't know if I was influential in that or not but like either way Christian for sure sin and a video addition and obviously it's going to be on site he sent He. He sent me the video. I've got it. Oh awesome good. Good Yeah I didn't. I didn't get the main thing which was a bummer. But ultimately was the best thing ever because they got again he Bennett Lewis. Whose infinitely better for that Gig than I would have ever been. I mean Bennett is unbelievable in if you can get him on this a thousand percent. He's incredible definitely do that. He's awesome but anyway. I did the Ryan thing and dude like that kind of really woke me up to That kind of really woke me up to how Nashville touring works. Because we were gone he would be on the radio tour at that point. Well yeah he was. He was doing radio tour like he was working with a major label. So Jordan was on an Indie label. Which was a big new label but like still operated a little differently than like major label. Stuff and Ryan was on on Sony Rca records is You know a imprint of Sony and just Ryan was doing record or I'm sorry radio to her while we were on tour with major artists. You know so I got I kinda got He was doing radio tour by himself. And then coming back to shows with right you know big country artists like Thomas Rhett and Florida Georgia line and all these guys and we're like wow like okay. This is what this is. What Nashville touring really is later. This is crazy like this is everything that I ever went and saw a high schooler now doing those steam stages you know. That's that's insane. Yeah and it all happened super-quick so the the education that I got touring with Ryan was like massive for me. You know like yeah just understand like there's just so many. Can you pick anything out that just sticks out as like being part of that time period couldn't have happened any other way man like? I don't know working with like this is the first time I worked with like a real stage manager and how like call times are super important. You know like if they say you're soundcheck is from four to four fifteen you don't roll up at four zero three. You know what I mean like. Yeah I I know that sounds super like easy and practical but like you show up three fifty and you wait until they say okay now you can make sound you know I i. It's just it's just so professional the way that these guys do it That you can't just be this happy. Go Lucky It's work on your own time Span Band Dude. Like it's worth your theory. It's a job it's it's a real job and it's really important that you treat it as such and man that was a that was a big education for me because You know I don't know I was just. It was just a whole new level of professionalism that I really appreciated in And had kinda always thought was there but hadn't seen up until that point right so I'm thankful that serious you to experience that and play some really fun killer shows with some of the best musicians I've ever gotten to play with and you know just just again. It's just a learning opportunity for somebody like me who for all intents and purposes kind of got into this professionally. A little later than a lot of my friends did it was It was very eye opening and and and really fun and I in a little intimidating at the same time like you know there was a lot. I got wrong. I'll tell you that for sure there is a lot I got round like. What like. Let's pick something let's don't. Let's don't tease arousal teasing. I think that what I got wrong was understanding Hey let's take another quick union break. This is Jay the tour bus driver and while Nathan thinks about that. I WanNa take a quick minute and tell you how you can connect with us here at the tour bus podcast. So go to the tour bus. Podcasts DOT COM. You can interact with our website. You can fill out some forms. Give us some contact info or reach out to you. Maybe ask you what other discussions will be. Valuable on the podcast. What questions you have those questions to our musician guests our producer guests. And we'll get a mansard for you to go to the website. Look around and go to the tour bus PODCAST DOT com slash tip jar Where you can give us tips comments questions CRTV outrage anything. You want to tell us. And we'll listen You can also connect with us on all the social media platforms. Facebook instagram twitter. Also don't forget to subscribe to the podcast wherever you gave podcasts. And let me know if it's not where you get your podcast and I'll make sure we get there. So let's get back with Nathan and see if he thought of anything I would. I would say that the being a band guy in in that role requires much more cooperation than opinion And as somebody who was a bandleader Before when I got on tour with with these bigger artists they weren't paying me for my opinion. They were playing. Pay Me for my ability right and what I brought to the table as a as as a player and as a hang and And I I probably gave my opinion which was not grounded in any sort of like expertise at that point even though I thought it might have been I mean I I was probably a little mistaken in how experienced I really was sure So if there's any advice that I give to like younger guys that want to move to Nashville and come and do this thing like come in and be a great player and be a great hang and maybe keep your opinions see yourself as far as how arrangements should go or mix or a really anything just being very pliable and kind of flexible in like because ultimately like there's an artist out there who you're going to end up auditioning for and if you get the audition and you get the GIG and you're playing for him like you may have a lot of opinions as to as to how their music should sound. But they've had opinions as to how their music should sound for ten years longer live and so like I would say that I would say that what Nashville has done for me as kind of like broken me of some of my Ignorance like Taipei kind of ways. You know what I mean like. I've always said like there's not a clear leader. I'm really good at like pushing through and being the leader yet. But that's not really the best approach I think in music because music is so is so so personal and especially when you're working with like a an artist that has a record deal like they've thought about this for they didn't just get a record. Deal Willy Nilly. That doesn't happen to get a record. Deal is a huge a huge feat these days it always has been but especially these days man is like it's a massive feet to do so the last thing they want is some like idiot guitar player coming in and going well. I think you should do this or I think you should do that. They want you to execute their vision. And like if you can think about it in terms of like you're in the service industry and your job is to serve that artist and really bring out. Whatever their vision is man you can. You can work for a long time and have a lot of fun doing this as a job. But if you come in there and try to bulldog like I you know I. I would say that early on I. I definitely had more opinions than more vocal opinions than I should have sure sure that was a mistake. I shouldn't have done that so I would say that. Like Ryan and I are are awesome like we're buddies if he calls me. I'm happy to. I'm happy to hear from him if I call him. He's probably happy to hear from me but like we didn't work well together because I was so freaking opinionated at the time it was definitely a valuable less. I don't know if there's a better way to like word that but like there was definitely like it was a fault on my part to go in and go like. Hey man you could be doing this better. You could be doing that better. You could be doing X Y and Z. And I was right there. There were things that we could have done better but man that was not my place as the guitar player in the band. The education was great like I learned like what it meant to live on a tour bus with some dudes varying degrees of expertise and I learned in personality personalities. I learned like man. There's just a certain level of like here's something I definitely want to put out there. Like artists work so much harder than you think that they do. You may not see it but like they don't ever get a chance to turn their thing off like when you go home for a couple of days. They're on and they're still dealing with external factors that you don't even understand. There's so much pressure in being a recording artists these days that The best thing that you can do as a live player is just to be a great easy fun. removal from all the pressure involved in being a recording artists. Because it's hard those guys are under a lot of pressure and do what you really what. I want to get across as like He. Yeah you just don't know what they face. We tour from Thursday to Sunday when we get home as players were Kinda done until Wednesday night when we get back on the bus and we go play shows from Thursday to Sunday and the artist. Man There were twenty. Four seven like nonstop. They get home Sunday. They may get that day off and then they're back in the studio Monday through Wednesday or in the writing room Monday through Wednesday and then if they've got relationships like if they're married or have kids or man they just don't get any time off so the best thing that you can be as a as a hired gun on the road is just just an easy could hang who plays the crap out of whatever you get to play right. You're there to not at the stress. No not at all. You can to reduce the artists. Absolutely your job is to be a great time on the road and to execute your your musicianship flawlessly like B B. Not something. That is a hard thing in those artists life because I just Yeah that's really the major point in all of this as like man just be served that artists. Because that's for sure that's what your job is is like. Serve them so where they can go man at the very least a don't have to worry about the live show because I know it's going to rock. 'cause my band is awesome like Mike Players Awesome my keys players awesome I bass player's cray trump drummers. Awesome like I don't have to worry about that. You have to worry about so be one less thing to worry about that is that is that is that is really like the most valuable thing. I think I learned from moving. Here is BP one less thing they have to worry about. There's just a lot that they have going through their brain Day In and day out man all. That is just an incredible stuff. What about How did how did the time go with Ryan? And and how did you get transition to playing with with Mason Ramsey? So I after after the tour that I did with Ryan There was a lot of time off in. I got a call. I'm kind of out of the blue. By management from Mason Ramsey. Who at the time was like viral gold? You know what I mean like. This was when his life totally different approach. If you don't being was little Hank Williams on instagram and twitter and all this stuff and He was like he was just like this viral sensation that happened and he did a cover of lovesick blues by Hank Williams Senior and it was on Ellen and it was remixed and it was on it was at Coachella and it was all this big stuff and I remember thinking like what. What in the world is this? This is hilarious and then I got a call. Yeah when you got the call what do you think? I got a call from his management one day. And they're like. Hey so you referred to us by Florida Georgia Line's people We think you might be a good fit for working with Mason Ramsey deal for from people. Yeah from their people because I had been on tour with Ryan. Oh they were with F. Gl yes and like their their management and and and people were you know it. Kinda met some of them just backstage and here. We are on tour with F. Gel for months at a time. You know so you get to know all the people that are on the road with and I guess they had kind of referred me to this this Mason Ramsey gig and He was looking for a guitar player. That was a little more steady at the time and And I was like man. I'm looking at an empty schedule. So like maybe I should. Maybe I should do this and I was like okay. Yeah Okay I'll go play these like week's worth of shows with you. Sure why not so I get I get the call and I go play like this really strange one off with him. That is a cracker barrel live sessions which. I'm sure you can find on the Internet. But it was just at the cracker barrel. Corporate offices were playing around a bunch a antiques. And we're playing these old Hank Williams songs and I met Mason that day like that morning and then we had to go film this thing an hour and a half later. It was bizarre like He. Can't he came in and was like? Hey I mason nice to meet you. Thank you for being here and I was like you know who's Alvin and the chipmunks voiced little kid like. This is so crazy that this is so crazy that we're doing this and me in our and the guy who got played who got hired to play drums was like we had no idea were walking into and We ended up being hired to be the band because he went on tour with Against Him Chris Slane who. Chris is like a phenomenal country artist and has had major hits on the radio so like a week after we did this little crazy cracker barrel live sessions thing. They're like hey. Do you want to go on tour? And we're like okay. What is going on tour? And so we're playing like you know like pretty big venues Open opening up for Chris because Chris is like killing it on country radio and we're just like how is this even real this? This is a crazy. What what was the show like at that point like like outside of the cracker barrel thing when you actually went out and did shows like what was the reception like and it was like beetle. Mania man it was nuts like there were shows that we did like so we got harder to the cracker barrel thing and then a week later they were like. Can you guys do this? Fly Date in Austin Texas. And we're like okay sure. Why not so we go do a fly date and we land in Austin and you know there's like a real tour manager who's become one of my good buddies and this guy's tour manage like train and boys like girls like you know big bands and he's like being super official and like handing US ITINERARIES. And here's how it's going to be in. Here's your car schedule. And here's you know when it's like wow I've never had tree like this before this. Kinda awesome and He you know we go play this thing. And it's at a Frat House in Austin Texas which shout out to those dudes. I don't remember the Frat I'm so sorry. But they through the biggest party ever for Texas Oklahoma or Texas USC game rather and they hired Mason to play it. But we had like you know like security like big scary dudes like help escorting him in and out of the building because it was like. Beatlemania like he stopped traffic on the street. Walking out of the car like people were freaking out. That's crazy yeah. It was absolutely nuts and we've had several occasions like that with him where it was just like. Oh my gosh. I can't believe the attention. This kid is getting but at the same time man. That's cool yeah more to you bro. Like that's and he's he's the best kid ever like he so awesome and he's a I think he I think he's a just so brilliant and smart and I'm so happy to be working with him. He's such a fast learner and teaching guitar. Yes so that's kind of became part of my job. Once we got on tour it was just like. Hey would you mind like teaching him guitar lessons because he wants to get better and you know to his credit like Mason really does practice and he wants to get better music and I think you're gonNA see him around for a long time I just? He's just he's a student of the whole thing and he's got a lot of really good influences in his life in this music business and you know the magic combination right there. Yeah it's it's really cool. He's got really cool guys like Kinda poured into him and You know when we show up in a city there. There's there's like pop culture people that show up to our shows which is crazy. I mean a third a twelve year old kid sold out some really big venues that most people can't sell out right so crazy to me And I'm just. I'm super proud of him so I it's been a little bit of a wild ride being with him but I'll backtrack and say like the first thing. Was that tour with with Chris and Mason. Kinda got to cut his teeth and learn. Oh here's how here's how to do meet and greets and here's how not to meet and greets and here's how to do shows and here's maybe not how to do shows and yeah it's bond into this thing that lead into him doing to sold out headlining tours in a row that's crazy that's And getting a play on TV and it was. It was wild man. Like we went from from touring with opening for Chris Lane to do in L. in today's show and Grand Ole opry and all the stuff And then after that it was just like all right. Bro- your headliner now. So right get out there and to headlining tour that he sold out as a as a twelve year old which is absolutely Volker Nominal. So right before so. We're doing this interview kind of in the midst of Corona virus lockdown. I think today was today in Georgia. Was I think at six? Pm was one of the law. You know lockout shirt or something like that. Yeah Nashville was last week or something anyways but before. All this weirdness happened what did What were you guys getting queued up for? What did you have going on in your life and what you have going on coming out of this. You think so. We were kind of getting geared up for some shows basically Nashville operates in like spring summer and fall and then the winter is essentially off. You know like eat. Onto tons December through February so march was US getting really geared up to do the stuff that we're going to do and we had some European stuff lined While it was it was looking really good It would just it just kind of all got put on. Hold obviously because of this thing which is bizarre But I you know as soon as I think. Hopefully as soon as it dies down you know we're just going to jump right back into it like we. We do have a great relationship with Grand Ole opry and oh probably do more stuff with them. Moving forward and Re Truth be told like the Kiddo. He he's thirteen so things are going to start changing for him as far as his voice and and that kind of thing and yet I think new music will sound different from him moving forward because obviously just. Because we're going to have Jane it will. Were all really excited about it at the music? Awesome that he's got right now and I'm excited to see where it goes. Oh Man I can't thank you enough for taking time with us. You've just glad to be here on packed a ton of useful information that I can't wait to dive into more in future conversations and hopefully In person when we can see each other again man. I'd love that. Thanks for listening to podcasts. Platform built by working musicians and producers to help you get more auditions mortgages and more of what you want. J. To a bus driver. Do you like what you hear. You can do a couple things you can. Subscribe to our podcast. Wherever you get your podcast you can find us online and like US wherever you do your social media comments or questions. You can go to the tour bus. Podcasts DOT com slash tip jar and leave us a comment or question or you can email tip jar at the two about podcasts. Dot Com theme music provided by the Rock Tonics and at Philly stacks music.

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Podcast #248 - Reading Scary /NoSleep Stories

Jenna & Julien Podcast

1:01:32 hr | 1 year ago

Podcast #248 - Reading Scary /NoSleep Stories

"Outside oh scary welcome back to generally podcasts Spooky Bishen Law Thanks for joining US technically when this comes out right now some parts of the world all Australia Tralee ah for them Ozzy's out there who want a good spook welcome Australia or Roy scary season and season. It's exactly what they say and Australia is as good as the impression oil. That was scary mate one now that we everywhere from Australia. Let's continue. I'm Ali here man. This episode is brought to you by the skin because the skin is a newsletter newsletter completely free at seven million people have already signed up for you sign up with email and the skin. We'll send you a nice little compact easy to read convenient bite-size newsletter about what's going on in the world you don't have to sift through different things on the Internet to new sites to pay walls to twitter order skim makes it easy for us to the skin. The K. I. M. dot com slash Jillian and you also have a chance to win a two hundred fifty dollars visa gift card card so check it out quickly blow also get stitch fix if you love clothes. We don't love shopping. Stitch fix is here to help you. They are your online personal styling service. Chris that sends you close based on your style preferences and choices. They have a really awesome system where a personal stylist will handpick items for you and send it to your door right now. Go to stitch fix dot com slash and Julian. You'll get an extra twenty five percent off when you keep all items in your box. That's stitch fix dot com slash. energy-lean stitch fix dot comes less than A. Julian also guys when you're done being scared from this podcast take a breath with com- the APP that helps you relax meditate and and be mindful on a daily basis. com is a great APP that helps with sleep. mindfulness stress reduction anxiety. It's amazing. I use it all the time I did. The daily comments a really great thing so it's an APP that you can download right now and you go to calm CEO dot com slash tuna Jillian Okay and you get twenty five percents off a premium subscription ADT com. You'll like it. Try it out. I think he will really get it helps especially when you're on your time on the Internet all the time. Sometimes you need to just take because the back with com. Click below peggy sponsors. Thank you sponsors. anyways for people in the United United States is not quite October yet but it's basically a scary seasons hiree season last year on the podcast. I think for for the entire month of October did scary. Leonardus podcasts so we wanted to do the same thing. This year because quite frankly is a lot of fun yeah so we're giving you five scary podcasts. Five scary pod cash is this comes out on the thirtieth and then we have the seventh fourteenth twenty. I twenty five scary. PODCASTS aren't feeling that we can always do something in the middle there whenever who who cares that doesn't matter there's no rules while we figured we'd started out with some creepy pasta or or stories. I guess for those who don't know what that is basically creepy pasta. They are mostly fiction right generally fiction we did an episode couple episodes back where we read creepy pasta and they they were creepy yeah for sure legend. Zelda wants still is like with me and people keep tweeting videos of it at me and I've watched the videos and it's it's wild yeah for some reason like when you read the story it was X. amount of scary but then when you watch the videos you're like h hit so so much scarier hit difference so what I did was high I grabbed a couple of suggestions from you guys on twitter for your favorite Kirby Pasta and stories and there's a couple subs. There's like a creepy pasta cyber then there's like no sleep celebrated which we've we've done before which people basically post. I actually don't know if there's anything true or if it's against the rules or whatever but I think there's a mix of true and false. I think it's mostly fiction but I don't know I thought it was fiction. I think it is but I also I've been told different things so maybe it is all fiction. Let's just go with that so I have a couple of suggestions in down. I'm mighty. Are you ready to get spooky. Yeah I mean no but Yes for where we hear that scared of walking bobby bobby had to sit a pukes could be mumble. You scared Mumble Mumble Mumble as scared listening to me more more more. Will we wake up okay so this was called. rugrats theory okay linked the Red Grad. You like that yeah. I I do like the rugrats. You might hate this so Nelson. No don't be on the rugrats from you. Please in my God okay nothing rugrats theory written by anonymous original version. Is this AD popping coming up. Hey because they get paid. Let's spooky. I don't want an ad clicked on the ad or the rugrats really really were a figment of Angel- Angelica demonic and unimaginable unimaginable imagine feeling of read this. Have you not read this story but I've read the theory before. Chunky died in one thousand nine hundred six along with his mother. That's why Chaz nervous wreck all the time. We all Kinda once did. Did you watch the regrets here. Okay all right. Why would you make the calling your bluff face right there I didn't I was just when I clearly it's been probably twenty years since I've watched it okay. How long has it been since you wash episode of the rugrats not a whole episode but I feel like I've seen clips of it recently okay well. I mean I generally have idea what's going okay. Tommy was born in nineteen eighty eight but he was still born. That's why stew is constantly in the basement. Making toys for the son who never had a chance wants to live dark. I clicked on it. Hey this doesn't creepy pasta. Though what. What do you mean where it's just a theory. Do you not want me to read this one. I can move on now. You can go ahead okay. I'll go ahead. The develops had an abortion in one thousand nine. Hundred Angelica couldn't figure out whether it would be oh boy. I grow thus creating the twins. Yes theory but it's really dark. We can skip this one if you aren't. I won't count here story okay. Let's go to a story. That's fine okay well. This is one called. My dead girlfriend keeps messaging me on facebook from no sleep do you. You want talent okay. This sounds pretty gnarly. My dead girlfriend keeps messaging me on facebook doc. I've got screen shots. I don't know what to do. So here's some screen shots. We can visit those later tonight kind of catalyst for this post. I received another message just now and it's worse than any others. My girlfriend died on the seventh of August twenty twelve. This post was five years ago so it had already been two years. She was involved in a three-car collision driving home from work. When someone ran a red light. She passed away within minutes on the scene. We've been dating for five years at that point point. She wasn't big on the idea of marriage. If felt archaic she said gave her a weird vibe but if she had been I would have married her within three months of our relationship. She was vibrant. The kinda girl that would choose dare every time she was happiest when camping but a total techno file to a techno you don't file chill likes technology. She always smelled like cinnamon. That being said she wasn't perfect. She always said something along the lines of if I- carpet I what does that mean look if I die. I just don't just say good things about me. I'd never liked that if you don't pay me out you're doing doing me a disservice. I've got so many flaws. That's just part of me so this is for him the music. She said she liked the music. She actually liked. Were very different. Her idea of affection was aside hug. She had really long toes like chimpanzee. I know that's tangential tangential but I don't feel right discussing without you. Having an idea of what she was like onto onto the meet 'em had been dead for approaching thirteen months when she first message. Me September fourth twenty thirteen this is when it began. I left Emily's facebook account activated so I could see the occasional message post on her wall and go through her albums O. F. Forget. It's fiction. Sometimes I'm like what do you mean. You left turf facebook active control of her facebook. I think when someone passes they they can people can log in and deactivate things turn off twitter accounts and in such it felt to final two analogy to memorialize it. I share access with her mother. Susan Okay meeting eating. Her mother has her log in and Password and has spent a total of approximately three minutes on the website or on a computer total after little confusion I assumed it was her after a little confusion. I assumed it was her like the messages November sixteenth. I had received confirmation from Susan that she hadn't logged into facebook since the week of her death. M. Knew A lot. The people saw instantly assumed this is one of more tech savvy friends talking with me in the worst possible. I noticed pretty much. Friends is in quotation marks. I notice pretty much immediately that whoever who was chatting with me he was recycling old messages from 'em and my chat history the the wheels on the bus comment was from when we were discussing songs longs to play on the road trip that never been treated hello happened a million times around February fourteenth. Sorry around February twenty fourteen. Emily started tagging herself in my photos. I will get notifications for them but the tag would generally always be removed by the time I got to the first time I actually they caught one. It felt like someone had punched me in the gut she would tag herself in spaces where it was plausible are plausible for her to be or where she would usually hang out. I've got screen shots of two from April and June. These are the only ones I've caught so there are a little out of the timeline that I'm trying to write out a click on the screen shots okay so there's a picture of a guy with his face covered and then in the background three creepy dots that look like is in mouth and then a tag. Let's just like tagging the space next this space so in both pictures just one person and then there's the tag next to them around this period of time. I stopped being able to sleep. I was too angry to sleep. She would tag yourself in random photos every couple of weeks. The friend who noticed in settling thought I was fucked fucked up bug. It was a fucked up. I'm sorry I found out recently that there have been friends who have noticed and didn't say anything. Some of them removed me from their facebook friends list at this this point some of you may be wondering why they kill my facebook profile. I wish I had I did for a little while on days when I can't get out. Oh It's nice having my friends available to chat. It's nice visiting M.'s page when the little green circle isn't next to her name. What does that mean. She's like active for live for on whatever I already become socially reclusive. When M was alive her death turned me into something pretty close to were hermit and facebook and memos are slash were my real only social outlets march fifteenth? I sent what I assumed was. M.'s hacker acker a message on March twenty fifth. I received an answer. It wasn't until I was going over these logs a few months later that I noticed she was recycling tackling my own words as well. My response seems kind of lackluster here. How is intentionally providing him slash her with emotional bait. This is actually devastating thing to keep them interested in their game. I was working off the assumption that this the the kind of person that would do this would be the kind of person that would thrive on the distress uh others. I was posting in tech forms looking ways to track this person in contact facebook and needed to keep them around so I could gather evidence before anyone asks asks yes. I changed the Password and security of countless times sixteenth of April. I received this. This seems like Word Word Salad like all of our conversation so far. It's recycled from previous messages. She sent the message from Emily says. Why are you doing this. We should make our own Jim J. AFC Samantha. Nah Different no chance of passing how many garage side door side no chance the passing so. Let's just gibberish. I hadn't discovered Oh. I hadn't clicked on the answer that they got before okay so he says before he says the Emily Chang Hello Hello Hello five times and he says this is actually devastating. I don't know why you enjoy doing this and then emily says oh my God cinnamon scented candles and he says go to hell and then emily says why are you doing this so she's regurgitating his words same compensation twenty ninth Ebbrell. She writes baked beans on toast. I duNNo. I just say you'll ask Nathan Nathan Nathan Nathan the Nathan says I don't know what's happening. I don't know how you're still doing this. Please Stop Emily says please stop. I don't know what's happening. Nathan I don't know what's happening. That's so creepy fucked. on the twenty ninth of April. I hadn't discovered any leads facebook had told me the locations of her page and where it had been accessed from but since her death they're all places I can account for my home. My work her mom's house etc my response. Here wasn't Bait Yo ask. Nathan was an in joke too lame worth explaining but seeing her say it again was just absolutely crippling to me. My reaction real-life was much less pretty. I'm not expecting my bond back. Her last few messages has started to scare me but I wouldn't admit it at this point eight th of May. I really don't have words for this. Emily rights I- I- minus twelve minus fifteen by jumpers in the drier and it's really cold out really cold out cold cold. Nathan please stop cold freezing. I don't know what's happening. Cheeses freezing F. R. E. Space Easy. I N Space Gee is the first original word she's made. This is giving me nightmares that have only started to kickin recently. I keep dreaming that she's an in an ice cold car frozen blue and gray and I'm standing outside in the warmth screaming at her to open the door. She doesn't even realize I'm there. Sometimes their legs are outside outside with me. Jesus Twenty Fourth of May may I really I really miss you. I'm really drunk whoever's on this account. I don't give a fuck. I keep coming home from work and expecting to see you at the computer. Shouldn't I be used to that by now. Emily rights must let me walk like just without the J. I wasn't actually drunk. She wasn't an affectionate girl and it always embarrassed her to exchange. I Love I love us. Cuddle talk about how much we meant to each other. She was more comfortable with it. When I was boozed up. I got not fake drugs a lot. Her reply is what prompted me to finally memorialize her page thinking that might help curb this behavior. It might seem innocuous compared to her previous message. It's pasted from an old conversation where I was trying to convince her to let me drive her home from friends. In the collision that Dashboard had crashed rushed her. She was severed in the diagonal line from her right hip midway down to her left thigh. One of her legs was found tucked under the backseat. God going back in time seventh of August two thousand twelve Nathan Rights Grey Street somewhere. Hey you on your way home Only when you see this message please bring me straightaway. I rang and they said you left four. I'm starting to panic. I feel sick to my stomach. Please ring me emily. Emily answer your phone. These are the logs from the day she died. She was usually home from work by four thirty so this alongside a couple of voicemail messages as last time. I talked out to her under the assumption that she was still alive. You'll see why I'm showing you these soon yesterday. First of July two thousand fourteen emily rights. Hey you on your way home Emily Emily when you see this message. Please bring me straightaway. Please stop. I rang and they said you left at five. I'm starting to panic. Please stop cold old emily. Emily answer your phone. I don't know what's happening. Cold freezing. I'm memorialized her paged a couple of days as after I received the message about walking until today she'd been quiet. She hadn't even been tagging yourself photos. I don't know what to do anymore. Do I kill her memorial page. What it is her. I WANNA puke. I don't know what's happening. I heard facebook alert. I'm too afraid to check it and swap windows so that's the whole all story so disturbing. It's really disturbing and especially when you look at the screen shots because it's it's like facebook chat however fake it is is it still creepy to look at has so creepy yes uber creepy. I WANNA say that like one of the things I don't know unless you've known someone that has died died in the age of social media or whatever you don't really think about that sort of thing like when someone dies what happens their accounts and they get deleted and what if they start messing you know shit like that so this is absolutely you know close to home in creepy for sure and then someone in the comments road. There's an update ocean. We look at it and yeah. I checked the alert. I heard as I heard as I was ending the post. I heard it. This was the message what the fuck it's like a dark photo peering through like a a door window like the vertical window on top of some doors with a light on the inside. Oh it's like looking into the room. He's that's the computer screen right. That could be a desk. I have no. I can't really tell what that picture. That's my door. That's my computer. It's taken from outside. I got the message three hours ago but didn't check it until now. I'm on my tablet or my garage. Zen then for now going to drive to a friend's forgot to open the garage door in my panic so my building so building up the nerve to get out to do that now holy holy book so like someone took a picture of him while he was on his computer yeah so so he writes arm on my tablet in my garage. Zen for now right then comments after that and says maybe the top colleges has me paranoid but then for now equals frozen now Jesus rose IAN yards whatever you call it when you mix up the letters Zan for now can be said can be made to say frozen now to the whole frozen thing is really creepy. The dam was a lot. All of these are really good okay so it's just a good experience takes you. There really does so this one was recommended by a couple people actually and this is just a reddit post from no sleep that someone posted and the title is a search and rescue officer for the US Forest Service have some stories to tell and please someone is these are takes in please. No sleep like I need these to be fiction because it's a really difficult for me to sit with them. They're not yeah. Thank you all right so there's two parts of this. One will be the first one I I wasn't sure we'll have to post these stories so I figured I'd show them here. I've been an essay are officer for a few years now and along the way I've seen her to rescue sorry search and rescue officer and along the way I've seen some things that I think you guys will be interested in Oh. Does he know me though Oh he might no. I'm saying like I'm not that interested. I'm terrified frozen. Okay Julian. Don't I have a pretty good track record for finding missing people sounds like he's the real work most of the time they just wander off the path or slip down small cliff and they can't find their way back the majority. Give them have heard the old. Stay where you are thing and don't wander far but I've had two cases where that did not happen. Both bother me a lot and I use them as motivation to search even harder on the missing persons cases. I get called on the I was a little boy who was out berry picking with his parents. He and his sister were together and both of them weren't missing around on the same time. Their parents lost sight of them for a few seconds and in that time both kids apparently wandered off when their parents couldn't find them. They called us. We came out to search the area area. We found the daughter pretty quickly and when we asked where her brother was. She told us that he'd been taken away by the bear man gall if you don't she said he gave her berries and told her to stay quiet that he wanted to play with her brother for a while now the last she saw her brother he was riding on the shoulders of the Beerman seemed calm. Okay you know what of course our first thought was abduction but we never found found a trace of another human being in that area. The little girl was also insistent that he wasn't a normal man but he was tall and covered in hair like a bear that he had a weird face. We searched that area for weeks. It was one of the longest calls I've ever been on but we never found a single trace of that kid the other. That's that story. The other was a young woman who is out hiking with her mom and grandpa according to the mother her daughter had climbed up a tree to get a better view of the force and she'd never come back down. They waited at the base of the tree for hours calling her name before they call for help again. We searched everywhere and never found a a trace over have no idea where she could have possibly gone because neither her mother or grandma saw her. Come down a few times. I've been called out on my own searching with a canine and they've tried to lead me straight up. STRAIGHT UP CLIFFS NOT HILLS NOT even rock faces straight sheer cliffs with no possible handholds. It's always baffling so he's saying the dogs are trying to lead him up like up to cliff to the job. Do you work search and rescue it's always baffling and in those cases we usually find the person on the other side of the Clifford Miles away where the canine has from where the Canaan has led us. I'm sure there's an explanation but it's sort of strange one particularly sad case involve the recovery hovering a body a nine year old girl fell down embankment and gotten paid on a dead tree at the base. WHO's a complete freak accident but I'll never forget the sound and her mother made when we told her what had happened. She saw the body bag being loaded into the ambulance. She let out the most haunting heartbroken whale ever heard her whole life was crashing down around her and a part of her a died with her daughter. I heard from another search and rescue officer that she killed herself a few weeks. After it happened couldn't live with the loss of her daughter. I was he's teamed up with another search and rescue officer because we had received reports of bears in the area. We were looking for a guy who hadn't come home from a climbing trip when he was supposed to will be ended up having to do some serious climb to get where he we figured he'd be. We found him trapped under INA small crevasse with a broken leg. It was not pleasant. He'd been there for almost two days. His leg was very obviously infected. We're able to get into the chopper. I heard from one of the EMT's that the guy was absolutely inconsolable. Liberal he kept talking about how he been doing fine and when he got into the top man had been there he said the guy had no climbing equipment and he was just wearing a park on ski pants heads. He walked up to the guy. The guy turned around. He said he had no face. It was just blank. He freaked out and ended up trying to get off the mountain too fast which is why he had fallen and broken his leg. He said he could hear the guy all night. Climbing down the mountain and letting out these horrible muffled screams. That story bothered the hell out of me. God I wasn't one imagine climbing that alone where you like climbing somewhere were you need heavy equipment and the guy without equipment and he turns around and he's gone face no face and then you fall off break your leg and you hear him howling screaming screaming all night but he has no mouth and it's just muffled that is so disturbing for balance fucked fucked stupefy supertalk y'all his fucking me up that is bugging me up. The one of the scariest things I'd ever happened to me involved the search for young woman who had gotten separated from her hiking group. We were out until late at night by the way if you're listening to this at night. You're brave Toronto while you sleep if you have to. We were out until late at night because the dogs had picked up her scent. We found when we found her. She was curled up under a large rotted log. She was missing her shoes pack. She was clearly in shock. She didn't have any injuries and we were able to get her to walk. Walk with us back to the base right away along the way she kept looking behind us and asking why that big man with black eyes was following. US couldn't see anyone so we just wrote it off some weird symptom of shock but the closer we got to base the more agitated. This woman got. She kept asking me you to tell him to stop making faces at her. At one point she stopped turned around and started yelling into the forest saying that she want him to leave her alone long. She wasn't going to go with him. She said she would have to. She said it wouldn't give us to him. I don't know that means we finally got to keep moving but we started hearing these weird noises coming from around around us from all angles angles it was almost like coughing but it was more rhythmic and deeper it was almost insect like. I don't really know how to describe it. When we were then When we were within sight of base ops the woman turns to me her Eiser about as wide as I can imagine a human can open them. She touches my shoulder and says he likes to tell you to speed up. He doesn't like looking at the scar on your neck. I L- very small score on the base of my neck but it's mostly hidden under my caller. I have no idea this woman saw right after she says it I hear that weird coughing sound right in my ear and I just about jump Outta my skin. I hustled ops trying not to show how freaked I was but I have to say. I was really happy when we left the area that night that fucking sentences fucking me up this is fucking me up coughing go more rhythmic and deeper an insect like is like something that just went all the way down my spine that is so disgusting and a horrible full description of annoys. He says to tell you to speed up. Stop up my God. What does that sound like. I just like imagine you're in a building news. Here's something that's like like that. Fucking fucking freaks me out you know what is that no coughing but more rhythmic and insect like coughing nothing but more rhythmic. That's abandoned pretty convincing. Okay got one more hour. This is the last one I'll tell and it's probably the weirdest one I have. I don't know this is true in every search and rescue unit but in mind sort of of an unspoken regular thing we run into you can try even asking about it with other essay our officers but even but if they even know what you're talking about. They probably won't say anything about it. We've been told not to talk about a by our superiors and at this point we've all gotten so used to it. That doesn't even seem weird anymore. I'm just about every case. We're really far into the wilderness. I'm talking and thirty or forty miles at some point. We will find a staircase the middle of the woods. It's almost like if you took the stairs out of your house. Cut them out. Put them in the forest. I asked about it. The first time I saw some. The other officer told me not to worry about it that it was normal. Everyone I asked the same thing I wanted to go. Check them out but I was told very empathetical emphatically sorry that I should never go near any of them so I just sort of ignore it now when I run into them because it happens so frequently all right. This guy had a part two so this is the second can post made so there's just stares just told where that's for you to not know and for the search and rescue rescue team to all know and have an inside joke about why they're stairs in the forest that makes me think there's probably like inter dimensional things going on in the forest. You know some fun stuff couple of those really fucked me up fan so log back on and I was blown away by the staggering amount of interest the seems to have generated first off all address a few things that have been brought up or you could just not have an overwhelming amount of people mentioning the similarity between some of my stories and those of David Politis assure you. I'm not trying to rip him off in any way. They've got nothing for respect for the okay. there was a lot of feedback about the stairs so I'll touch on that briefly here. I'll also include a story. They come in a variety. Heidi of different shapes sizes styles and conditions. Some are pretty dilapidated. Just ruins but others are brand new. I saw one set that look they came from a lighthouse the house they were metal and spiral and almost old fashioned the stairs. Don't go up infinitely or further than I can see but some there's taller than others like I said before. Just imagine the stairs in your house as if someone cut and pasted them into the middle of nowhere. I don't have any pictures. It's never really occurred to me to try again after the first time time and I don't really feel like risking my job over it. I'll try again in the future but I can't really promise anything all right a few people express confusion about the guy who ran into the man with no face just to clarify when the climber ascended and reached the top of the peak he saw another man in Park Ski Pants. This was the man with no face. Sorry about confusing being with the wording of that story. Try to avoid that in the future so there's nothing really new there. Oh He's got at some juicy ones. These are long ready for the first one. Are you are you. Are you ready. Are you sure as far as missing persons guide say about half the calls I get are related to the others are rescue calls people who fall down cliffs and hurt themselves get injured by fire. You wouldn't believe how often often this happens. Mostly drunk kids getting bitten or stung by animals or insects were tight team and we have veterans who are excellent finding the signs of loss people. That's what makes these cases where we never find a trace of them so frustrating one in particular was upsetting for all of us because we did find a trace of them but it led to more questions than answers. An elder elderly man had been hiking alone on a well established trail but his he's text me and say. I'm scared. She texted me and said I'm scared. They've it's okay. It's okay. If you're you know don't worry Eh. Everything's GonNa be fine. Do you need to do the sponsors AH break you know. I was doing for you. Thank you for the segway. I appreciate it. Why don't you take a second in log onto the COM HAB. I really don't you take some guided meditation with the daily. COM- if you guys haven't heard of the daily Com is actually a really really great APP that I use quite often. It's super simple to use you downloaded and you have it on your phone or your tablet or computer like your devices and you put your headphones and you were just escape all all of this for just a quick moment each day. It's amazing. com is an amazing. APP that helps you become more mindful an intern reduce stress pigs and frustration. It's okay baby and if you're if you're getting scary stories read to you and you need to use the cop. That's an appropriate time as well. we all know important. A good night's sleep is and sometimes I struggle to sleep and doing the daily calm and doing exercises with the con have helped me immensely actually sort move remove me from the frame of mind of being in front of the screen all the time and thinking all the time and just kinda clearing my mind. It's really nice they have a whole library of programs designed to help you get the sleep your brain and body needs like soundscape voiceovers even with Jerome Jerome Home Flint from game of thrones and right now you get twenty five percent off aecom premium subscription when you go to calm dot com. CA L. DOT com slash Jillian so if you want to seize the day sleep the night with the help of Com dot com slash Jennifer Jillian check it out also guys the Skim helps you be educated and understand what's going on in the world without nonsense in your way makes it easy in the morning. When you're drinking your coffee or tea getting started for the day you pop open the skin? It's rain your inbox. You get right to the breaking news. There's no there's no nonsense news. 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Although bedtime story what is it one in particular was very upsetting because we did find a trace of them but it led to more questions questions than answers. An elderly man had been hiking along a well established trail but his wife called to say that he hasn't come back home when he should have apparently he had a history of seizures and she was worried that he hadn't taken his meds and suffered one out on the trail before you ask. I have no idea why he thought it was okay to go out alone or why she he didn't go with him. I didn't ask about that kind of thing because a past a certain point it really doesn't matter someone's missing and it's my job to find them. We went on on a standard search formation and it wasn't long before one of our vets found signs that the guy had gone off the trail. We grouped and followed him spreading out in a fan to make sure we're covering as much ground ground is possible. This is actually kind of interesting how they operate to know more about that. Suddenly a call comes over the radio telling us to head back to the vets location and we come right away because this usually means the missing person is injured and we need a full team to get them out safely. We meet back up and the guy is just standing at the base of the tree with his hands on the side of his head. I asked my buddy what's going on and he points up to the branches of the tree. How almost couldn't believe what I was seeing but there's a walking stick dangling from I'm a branch at least thirty feet off the ground. The little strap thing on the handle has been looped around the branch and it's just hanging there okay so it's a walking stick. not like the insect like an actual stick that people used to like a walking stick yeah hanging from the branch thirty thirty feet off the ground. the strapping on the handle has been looped around the branch and it's just hanging there. There's no way the guy could toss it up that high and we don't see any other signs ends they still in the area. We call up to the tree but obviously no one's in it. We're all just sort of left scratching our heads. Keep searching for the guy but we never find him. We even bring Tena has out but they lose his sent long before this tree eventually the search is called off because there are other calls we have to attend to and passes her and point. There's not much we can do. The guy's wife called us every day for months asking if we'd found her husband was heartbreaking to hear her getting more and more hopeless each time. I'm not sure why this one in particular so upsetting but I think it was just the the sheer improbability of it and that are all the questions that were raised. How the hell did this came. Get up so high in the tree. Someone Kilim lemon toss that thing up. There is a weird trophy. We did our best to find him but it was almost like taunt. We still talk about from downtown. I've questions about this one right so he just he just theorize that maybe someone killed him and threw it up there but he said the guy couldn't thrown out there is because he's holders because it's humanly impossible to throw it up their bowls probably and then also all these stories just keep alluding to something like grabbing these people and bringing them up high yeah yeah you know creepy the creepy the creepy thing about some of these is like when the canines don't smell anything yeah because human error you can miss something the canines when they're not smelling the especially near the cane or the walking stick for that means. His body was nowhere near that stick where they found it otherwise they would have smelled him. That's crazy because the dog can't smell it if something goes up in the air like them going up to sheer rock cliffs faces and them being like it's up there and the guy on top of the mountain and all of that grabbed up ooh stop scaring me know that there's me do it is him this purse. Excuse me stop fraud or go to the woods in general like the it's scary yeah that brings out that like primal level of fearing you of just like you're out there against the elements and go survive and if there's something something greasy in Nagla show alone I wouldn't be scared of a bear cougar. I'd be scared of a boogeyman. Oh I'd be scared if a pair scared scared of all for a pack of wolves fuck that Shit. We should watch that show again. That's so good okay. There's new never stopped watching it. He did know there's new episodes. You never really started dating when you start watching something at two thirty in the morning and I fall asleep ten minutes in that doesn't mean I didn't watch it because it's time to go to sleep. It's literally literally the definition of not watching if you're sleeping during the episode of but I started watching it and then I doubt days off to say okay but there's new episodes out uh-huh as we should watch him or you could watch all the old episodes that you didn't watch it. But why would I do that. I've seen them all. You have not seen any of them anyways. Let's keep he's going. Okay ready to get dark again. Everybody know okay. Missing kids are the most heartbreaking doesn't matter what circumstances they go missing under. It's never it easy. We always always read the ones refined deceased. It's not common but it does happen David Police the guy who he was is accused of ripping off. I guess talks a lot about kids search and rescue teams in places the finding kids places they shouldn't be or couldn't be I can honestly honestly say I've heard about this thing happening more than I've seen it but I'll share from one of the ones I think about a lot that I wouldn't personally a mother and her three kids route for a picnic in an area of the park. That has a small lake. One six one is five and the other is about three. That's handful for her to take go on a picnic Geez. She's watching. All all of them really closely according to her she never lets them out of sight anytime she never saw anyone else in the area either which is important. She packs her stuff up and they start to head back to the parking area now. This lake is only about two miles into the woods and it's on a very clearly established established true. It's almost impossible to get lost getting from the parking area to the lake unless you're deliberately walking off the path like an imbecile. Her kids are walking talking in front of her when she hears what sounds like someone coming up behind her on the path she turns around and in the four or so seconds. She's not looking her five-year-old son vanishes. Che's she figures he stepped off the trailer p. Two P. or something she asked other to where he went. They both tell her. A big man with a scary face came out the woods next to him. took the kids hand and let him into the trees. The two remaining kids don't seem upset in fact she says later. It seems like they've been drugged. They're sort of spacey and Fuzzy. So of course she freaks out she starts frantically looking around the area for the kid screaming his name and at one point she thinks she heard him answer now. Obviously she can't go blindly running into the woods. She got the two kids so she calls the police and they send us out immediately. We respond. We start searching for him. Over the course of the search which spans miles we never find a single trace of the kid canines can't pick up any scent. We don't find clothing clothing or broken bushes or literally anything that would signify a child being there of course there's suspicion about the mother for a while but it's pretty clear that she's completely destroyed by the whole thing we look for this kid for weeks with a lot of volunteer help but eventually the search peters out and we have to move on the volunteers keep searching no and one day we got a call on the radio letting US know that a body had been found and needs to be recovered they tell US location and none of us can believe here. We figure it has to be a different kid. Go out there about fifteen miles from the site where he vanished and sure enough we find the body of the kid who you've you've been looking for trying to figure out how this kid got wherever he did since we found him and I've never come up with the answer a volunteer just having to be in the area because he figured he might as well look in places. No one else would look on the off chance. The body been dumped. He comes to the base of tall rocky slope in halfway up. You see something. He looks through binoculars and sure enough. It's the body of a little boy stuffed in the opening of Iraq. He recognized the color of the kids shirt so he knows right right away that it's the missing boy that's when he calls it in and were dispatched. It took US almost an hour to get his body down. None of us could believe what we're seeing. Not only was this kid fifteen eighteen miles from where he'd started. There was no possible way he could got good gotten up there on his own. The slope is treacherous. It's hard even for us with with our climbing gear. A five year old boy had no way of getting up there. I'm certain of that and not only that the kid doesn't have a scratch on him. His shoes are gone but aren't damaged or dirty so it wasn't as if an animal dragged him up there and from what we can tell he hadn't been dead that wrong he'd been out out out there for over a month at that point and it looked like he had only been dead for most a day or two God. The whole thing was unbelievably. Strange and one of the most disconcerting calls ever been on. We found out later that the kerner determined that the kid died from overexposure. He frozen to death probably late late at night two days before we found him. There were no suspects no answers to date. It's one of the weirdest thing I've ever seen again with the no shoes news eat. It heated new okay. Oh how do you feel about forced. I background for this podcast. Moving on one of my I draw jobs. Dobbs as trainee was a search opt for a four year old kid that had gotten separated from his mom. This is one of those cases where we knew we were going to find him because the dogs were on a strong scent trail and we saw clear signs that he was in the area. We ended up finding him in a berry patch about a half mile from where even seen last kid wasn't even aware that he'd been wanted he had wanted that far. One of the vets brought him back which I was glad for because I'm really not good with kids as they find it hard to talk to them and keep them company as my trainer and iron headed back she decides take me on a tour to show me. One of the hotspots tend to find missing people. It's a natural dip in the land near a popular trail and people usually move downhill because it's easier we hike out. There is a few miles away and get their about in about an hour as we're walking around the area. She's pointing out places. She found people in the past. I see something in the distance. Since now this area we're talking about is about eight miles from the main parking area and though there's roads that you can take to get closer if you don't want to hike that far we're on state protected land which means there can't be any kind of commercial or residential development out here. The most you'll ever see is a fire tower or makeshift shelter that a homeless people think they can get away with building but I can see from here that whatever that thing is has straight edges and there's one thing that you learn quickly quickly. It's that nature rarely makes straight edges or lines. I pointed out she doesn't say anything. She just hangs back and let me wander over and check it out. I get within about twenty feet of it and all the hair on the back of my neck stands up a staircase the middle of the fucking woods in proper context it would literally be the most benign thing ever but it's just because it's just a normal staircase with base carpet about ten steps tall but instead of being in a house where it obviously you should be. It's out here in the middle of the woods. The sides aren't carpeted obviously and I can see the wood. It's made of it's. It's almost like a video game glitch where the House has failed to load completely in the stairs or the only thing visible visible. I stand there and it's like my brain is working overtime to try and make sense of what I'm looking at by trainer winter comes and stands next to me and she just stands there casually looking at it as if it's the least interesting thing in the world. I asked her what the fuck this thing is doing here. She chuckles get used to it rookie. You're going to see a lot of them. I start moving closer but she grabbed my arm hard. I wouldn't do that. She says her voice casual but her grip is tight. I I just stand there looking at her. She goes. You're going to see them all the time but don't go near them. Don't touch them. Don't go up to them. Just ignore them start to ask her about it but something in the way she's looking at me. Tells me it's best if I don't. We ended up moving on well. You need to keep asking question and the subject doesn't come up again for the rest of my training. She was right. I'd say about every fifth call I'd go on it ended up running across a set of stairs sometimes a relatively close to the path maybe within two or three miles sometimes twenty thirty miles out literally in the middle of nowhere and only find during the broadest searches or training any weekends. They're usually in good conditions but sometimes they look like they've been out there for for miles. All different kinds all different sizes the biggest I ever saw quickly came out of turn of the century mansion and we're at least ten feet wide with steps leading up about fifteen or twenty feet. I tried talking about with people but they give me the same response by Turner. Did it's normal. Don't worry about it. They're not a big deal. Don't go close to them more up to them. When trainees asked me about now I give them the same response. I don't know what else to say. I'm really really hoping some day. I get a better answer but it hasn't happened yet. What is that bullshit. What is that I don't know but to think the anyone in their job would just be like all right yeah cool yeah no problem. I won't go near him. Touch it rookie absolutely not don't look at it rookie yeah my response bonds would not be like all right sounds good well. You don't know until you're in that situation. I guess looking for some stairs may bobby bobby you love their. Mo- they need him. When things get scary last one you ready along Israeli. He's going to protect US my Patel Canine search and rescue and he can't he can't hear anything works at a renounced Barca every noise a lot of my less outdoorsy friends. WanNa know if I've ever seen the goat man while out on calls unfortunately or fortunately I'd never seen anything quite like that happened. I guess the closest to the whole black eyed man thing but I didn't. I didn't see anything however there was one call. We're had gotten something similar that happen but I'm not sure if I'm willing to chalk it up to the Goatman. We'd gotten a report that an older woman had fainted along one of the trails and we needed to assist. Actually we needed assistance getting back down to the area. We hike up to where she's at in her husband's. Just is beside himself. He runs well. I guess more jobs to US and tells us that he was a little ways off the trail looking at something when his wife starts screaming behind him he runs back to her. She's passed out on the trail. We get get her on the backboard and as soon as we're getting her down to the welcome center she comes to and starts screaming again. I calm her down and ask her. What happened can't remember verbatim what she said but essentially what happened. Was this she had been waiting for her husband. When she started hearing this really strange sound she said it sounded sort of like a cat but it was somehow off and she couldn't quite figure it out so okay with the sounds like this sounds from the Nether minecraft home. He's out there. She been waiting for her husband. She said it sounds sort of like cabinet was off. She couldn't quite figure out why she went a little ahead to try to hear here it better and it sounded like it was coming closer. She said the closer God the more uneasy she was until she finally figured out what was wrong. I do remember Amer this next part because it was so weird that I don't think I could ever forget if I tried. It wasn't a cat. It was a man saying the word meow over and over. Just throw up stop to a wasn't a man it couldn't have been because I've never heard of man make his voice buzz like that. I I thought my hearing was going on but it wasn't I adjusted it and it sounded all buzzy. There was awful. He's coming closer. Oh Sir but I couldn't see him and the closer. You got the more scared I was until the last thing I remember. Was this shape coming out of the trees. I guess that's why I fainted faulk off faulk off now. Obviously I'm a little more perplexed as to why a guy would be in the fucking woods chanting meow at people the once we get down the mountain. I tell my superior that I'm going to search the area to see if I could find anything. He gives me the go ahead. I grabbed the radio and hike back to where she fainted. I don't see anyone so I go about a mile more when ahead had and when I head back I go off the trail to see if I could figure out where she saw him coming from. It's almost sunset by this point and I don't have any desire are to be out at night alone so I just sort of write it off and make a mental note to check it out tomorrow. But has I'm headed back. I started to hear something in the distance. I Stop I call for for anyone in the immediate area to identify themselves the sound didn't come closer or get louder but it sounded exactly like a man saying meal and is really odd monotone as comical as it sounds it was almost like gone South Park with the Electro Larynx Ned off the trail in the direction. I think it's coming from but I never seem to get closer. It's almost like it's coming from all directions. Finally I just sort of it just sort of fades out and going back to the welcome center. I didn't get any further reports like that and even though I went back to that area. I never heard that exact sound again. I suppose it could have been some stupid kid other fucking with people. You'll have to admit it was pretty weird so creepy to employee stock. No no don't whatever you doing don't Stop Julian meow. Don't stop as so scary meow when that sentence came amount of your mouth is just like the most terrifying fucking thing ever meal. Yes that it wasn't a cat it was it was actually a men just saying the word meow that is terrifying fuck man. The worst is like like like obviously people who go who like you know. The stories of people dying getting murdered by people in the woods obviously just the most horrifying thing ever but the weirdest in the hardest. It's understandable is when people don't have an endgame of killing people. They're just there to torment people. You know what I mean. That's like to me is even crappier. because it's it's more hard to explain it's like why would someone even do that. Bizarre who've meow while the idea of someone just working search and rescue sometimes sometimes the scary enough to me as it is like all right. You have a call that there's this thing happening. Go check it out and like wow. Let's might worse fucking nightmare. Okay Yeah Day at the the people this guy like the search and rescue teams. They must fuck in really have some bravery that I don't know about about EMT's police officers like all of them. I mean yeah all the people are anyone who deals with that sort of thing seeing dead bodies regularly Orleans things like that or desensitize in in some way but still when you hear. This guy talked about how he's scared. Fuck yeah if you're scared. I'm seventy million times more scared. If you're scared I'm that women have already passed up from already on the ground in fear unconscious with fear meal Gillian don't. Why are you like this. I just that it scares me. So you stand up in meow louder. I those are really good good. Ones I lake the ones that are like stories and I appreciate that you said that was on our no sleep. Most of those were no sleep so they're fiction. We think we hope I think last. I I think a billion years ago we read something from no sleep on the podcast and I was like no real real and everyone in the commerce was like damn stupid. They're fiction so I'm pretty sure they're all fishing but I ah I saw I'm hoping that that's all fiction because that was completely terrifying but those written some very fun and brilliant spooky storytelling plausible brings you into it. Totally yeah really did who had a great time. I had a great time to thanks for doing this yeah so we'll do oh creepy things spooky things scary things for the month of October on the podcast in addition. I don't know why I'm doing this. Actually I do but I'm going to be playing some scary. VR Games because we gotta be are set up for our twitch stream. You brave your brain. I'm only doing it because every single time we go live now. I Gore yelling at me to do it. I promise Julian I will not physically scary while you're playing. That's not okay for security yeah. I really think that's like actually superfoods. You ever do a scary. Maybe our navy how scary it is so there's like a couple scared of your games or talking about we'll figure it out. So what am I pointing mentioning this. If you normally don't watch too extreme but if you don't if you want to see if you WANNA watch us if you just get scared out of our minds with VR headset on and not know what's going on. Maybe tune in this month onto the stream because we're going to be during that maybe also guys leaving the comments your ideas for other spooky podcasts because we don't have the whole month out so let us know what you guys want to see and we'll make it happen. You guys have a wonderful week. We'll see on twitch and we'll see on the next episode by Yeah.

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How to Be a Capitalist Without Any Capital with Nathan Latka

Entrepreneur on FIRE

33:10 min | 1 year ago

How to Be a Capitalist Without Any Capital with Nathan Latka

"Boom, shake the room fire nation jail D here with an audio masterclass. You aren't going to want to mess because we're gonna be talking about how to be a capitalist without any capital into do that. I am bringing Nathan lacquer on the Mike in he buys and sells software companies has a podcast called the top entrepreneurs and has a book coming out called how to be a capitalist without any capital and fire nation. We're gonna be talking about how to acquire a company without spending any money how to use your Instagram account to get a free hotel. Stay maybe multiple in the exact script to use to get bloggers to replace your competitors back link with years, which is critical and so much more fire nation, so we will dive in with Nathan when we get back from thinking, our sponsor one of the biggest challenges I face while growing. My business finding qualified candidates to hire. Luckily, Zip Recruiter makes it easy. You'll see exactly what I mean. If you visit Zip Recruiter dot com slash fire. Ziprecruiter's powerful technology scans thousands of resumes to identify people with the right skills and experience in actively invites them to apply to your job. So you get qualified candidates fast. And right now, you can try Zip Recruiter for free at Zip Recruiter dot com slash fire. That's Zip Recruiter dot com slash fire. Ziprecruiter, the smartest way to hire. Nathan say was up to fire nation and sure something interesting about yourself that most people don't know. Hello jail. The nope. You know this, but I've actually eaten basically the same formulas every day for the past three years woke can we hear them real quick? Yes. So in the morning, it is it's basically two eggs cut in half. So basically four halves on top of green salad and in the second one is spaghetti six meatballs on top of a kind of a bit of a spaghetti the third is lemon chicken. So it's again, lemon chicken on top of a nice pasta. And the fourth one is kind of like a beef stroke. Awesome mix beef bus potatoes in green beans, and it's been very efficient. It's six dollars and fifty cents per meal delivered I use my mind PK here in Austin, and it works really, well, I love that. And I can tell you it's working because fire nation Nathan's lean mean, and he's an entrepreneurial machine. No doubt something else that you might not know fire nation on all share is that back in two thousand and thirteen we went on a little mastermind retreat into the mountains of Colorado myself him about twelve other entrepreneurs where I almost died when ATV accidents not not really exaggerating that much agent did or not exaggerating at all it did roll it roll. I mean off a cliff like a large boulder still gives me chills. I haven't been on TV sans. But anyways, the mastermind was awesome. It was amazing. Of course. I did not go back day to ATV. Neither did Nathan. So we went hiking instead with a couple other people, and we really connected there. Which was awesome. Never since them. We both going to be keeping tabs on each. Others entre journey, and that's why we had to bring him back on here today because he's releasing a book how to be a capitalist without any capital. So we're wouldn't be doing an audio masterclass on this topic, which he is an expert in IT's you in the intro with a bunch of things we're going to be talking about. So I'm really fired up. But again, this is an audio masterclass that's going to be really focused in. We're gonna be expounding on some of the ideas that he talks in-depth about in his book how to be a capitalist without any capital. So let's just start off Nathan with you talking to us with us with fire nation of acquiring a company without spending any money. What I grew up on my cue and Warner Andrew Warner measuring all these sites, and I'm going, well, these pay a lot of money, especially people doing stuff to essentially build their list, and I'm going I'm in my dorm at the time. I have no money. How can I cheat this and build A-List quickly? So here's the process that I didn't have many companies using this process number one, you go the chrome web store. Right. So there's a search Google Chrome web store and. What you do is. I go on there. And I look for extensions that have more than one hundred more than ten thousand hundred thousand users, and then I look in the bottom, right, John. It will say the last time that extension was updated. And if the updated extension date is more than like, two or three months, it's a science that the developer isn't that interested in it. And it's kind of growing by accident. I reach out and say, hey, I see of an update of this three or four months. Would you consider selling it to me and long story short are this I've acquired three or four companies at this point is doing that same process right through the chrome web store. I love that process, especially fire nation when you build a niche when you build this vertical where you are in a thorny an influence of any kind in the now, you can do this process and shared chrome web store. Extensions. More than one hundred K users. The last time it was updated. Oh, more than three months. Maybe the developers not that interested. But what can you maybe brain that developers lacking? You can maybe bring influence authority focus traffic, all these key things to revitalize this which already by the way, he's had. Success with a hundred thousand plus users in you can take it to that next level. So I love that process. I love that part in what do you really want to make sure that people are kind of going through Nathan before they may be dive off the deep end and make this process happen. Boy, you have to get the script. Right. So this is great on page. One sixty five I put in the book a screen shot of the Email that works best for me. This subject line. You just say potentially acquiring the chrome extension name and the message short and sweet just says, hey, see us name. Would you be open to chat about me, potentially acquiring the company? And so I did this with a company my first one called mail to cloud and actually John in due-diligence after we start doing research. I realized I had a massive liability on the book. So this I tell this thing in the book, they actually ended up paying me fifteen thousand dollars to take that company over and now it's called the top inbox dot com and then later dot com, which does about oh, call at six seven grand a month is a side hustle. Doesn't take any time. This is what I love about Nathan fire nation is he gives you exact scripts. He's like, oh, yeah. This aerial broad vague thing. This is what you do. He's like this is the. Exact Email us use it word for word. Stop recreating the wheel make this happen. And I do the exact same thing with podcast Peres. My listen, I've crafted forty templates if you wanna reach out to sponsor you want to reach out to a potential gas. All these things just take these perfectly. Crafted emails brand them make them your own personnel. If you want and then use them, stop recreating the wheel or stop doing things wrong. Which is even worked out of the have you put out a book recently, not recently? No, I'll tell you the publishers eight this, and I'll tell you why they want timeless books you've got a lot of guests hits. They want books that will sell ten years from now they hate my book because they're over one hundred and sixty screen shots for my stripe. Accounts to really male templates to real negotiations to allies acquisitions offers I walked away from they hate it. Because it's in there. But I think that's what makes this book super super urgent. It's not timeless though, what I love about that Gary inch talked about this with jab jab jab right hook. He's like listen this book's great right now. So by it right now use it right now because honestly in two or three years a lot of these strategies that I'm teaching. Mm you exactly super relevant. So this is why you keep up the process finger on the pulse. Make these things happen. So one thing that you actually semi an Email about the other day, which is pretty funny. We gonna Chuck a lot of it was you know, you've been using Instagram various, effectively you've gotten a couple free hotel stay off as well. As you. Pretty sweet places. So doctors about that process and will jab a little bit about awhile. Here's the big thing about kind of Instagram in my opinion. Terms of just like getting free stuff. I'm a big believer that you can build your business. Two ways by growing, your income, right or by decreasing expenses, and no one ever things about decreasing expenses. So I said, you know, what I'm going on a forty five day trip in southeast Asia. Anyway, I was about the book hotels. I'm like, you know, what let me try to influence or marketing thing. Now, I didn't think myself as an influence there because I only had at the time like five thousand followers on Instagram, but I tried it. Anyway, I sent a few cold emails to some of these these places I wanted to stay. I'm basically said, hey, I'll post about you. If you let me stay there for free now most said, no, John, but eventually I hooked up with someone else. You recently had on that. I highly recommended him Zach Benson. And he basically said Nathan will change your pitch a little bit us this Email scripts. So again, I put this Moscow on page in the book, and it basically just rephrase is say we can do the following one crate one positive Instagram post. He said put in. The word positive that was a huge change crate one positive grandpa is not just positive as wise making that you might create a negative if they. There's horror stories of these hotels. They give away free nights. And then the reviews are positive. So you can't say commit to a five star of view without experiencing it, but you can say we'll find one thing positive and right about that one. Mazda so little it's you get this little copywriting things. So anyways, I ended up getting many free nights. And you see me here laying in the bed and posing by the pool Fuxing my six back as hard possibly can as a little thirst trip. There. You know, you don't have a pack yet. What is your problem, dude? I I'm not at your level yet not everybody is. But my point is John at put this in there because there's another script on how I got a Rolls Royce free for two days using Instagram as well. But like these it's not magic, it's just copywriting. And you don't have to have to do it. Okay. So beyond the scripts. I mean, there must be a couple of things that you did. And the Zach shared that really kind of allowed you to get to that next level because you have a pretty decent volume. It's twenty thousand plus and growing quickly. So by the time people listen to this is probably going to be close to one hundred thousand. I'm just guessing like what else can people do that? Maybe don't have massive fallings. Yeah. Well, this just to be clear this reply that I see from Owen resorts was January eighteenth twenty-seven team at four thirty two might time because I have the screens right here in the book, I'm reading from. So my. In my father was actually fairly probably ten thousand and now it's maybe twenty thousand but the extra things we added in we added in like instead of just Instagram. We said two times Snapchat, s-, basically, two snapshots also included. We added one trip advisor of you for business eight that was the hotel that I got a free stay at. So adding those two things in gave us extra leverage. And then there's one key thing that everyone everyone listening right now when you book these tells this way, you should ask for and it's called the media rate a lot of people don't know this. But every hotel has a media rate, and it's about one third the cost of retail. And that's basically reserve that for CA UTA booking agents at these major agencies were booking talent. But if you just ask for it, they sumino you're talking about and you typically can cut off two thirds of your hotel costs even luxury luxury hotels overseas using that keyword the media rate. God this is so good. And it's really pissing me off because Kate just booked a nine day. Stay in Moscow. We're doing that this. But you know, it's an Airbnb in like, I'm just like totally have. Done this with this whole process right here. And we could probably be staying in the red square or whatever they call the Kremlin, not even know for free. I mean, I'm going to go back to the drawing board here because this is gonna to Airbnb when you guys book when when she went in do you typically go on and just sort do you ever sort from most expensive to least just to see what the most luxurious thing is? Yeah, dude, I did that. And when I went to host a mastermind, San Francisco, and it was this Penthouse's three grand night. There's a actually have the Email back and forth. I took screened Airbnb where I got a discount on that penthouse down to five hundred bucks a night because I just told the the host that would invite him to the CEO mastermind each nights at his place. If it gave me the discount, and then I use the pictures of the penthouse to all the does there. So it's called elephant bump into each other and get discounts. I love this conversation's. It's tactical though, your audience likes so tactical. It's so tactical because they can just take what works in flippin use it. So one thing that I'm excited about with this next bullet point we're going to be chatting about is. I'm starting into completely brands in two thousand nineteen probably cue two maybe at the latest early Q three of twenty nineteen launching a new brand in different vertical than business. And I'm pretty excited about it. And one thing that I made on you can't tease. Nope. I'm just teasing. I will. I will give you a hint. Actually, it's in the self care slash health and wellness space because that's where all of my focus. Passion is digital physical interesting. Yeah. So because of all of that, I know that I need to have my website my copy my contents. Be ranking really really won't people are searching for specific things into do that. Obviously, you create great content. But there's a way you can really use bloggers who have a lot of authority in a lot of influence in. Niche to back link with your stuff and to make your content much more relevant and high-ranking on things like ghoul and all the other ones like being stuff. So let's talk about the script the used to get bloggers to replace your competitors back link with yours, and that's not just like to add yours. I love the word how you said replace your defensive. It's your tacking. And you're playing defense is true right back in. I think memories right back in two thousand eighty seven you had Tim on age. So that's what I start with I go there. This was in two thousand fourteen I used a h I put in my competitor short stack. They competed with me when I was building my company called HALE which was for Facebook apps. I saw that in the one of the number one traffic drivers to short stack was this place called guava gua- box dot com. So I sent an Email the guava box contact from the website that basically said, hey, guys, I saw you wrote this article on the Facebook contests space, then continued John said, I'm building tool in this space in two questions for you about a new design. We're about to roll out open to a call. So I can show you the private stuff. So notice I didn't ask right away like replaced my link I was going for that by teasing them with a new design. Can I show you the private stuff Andrew then wrote back about what is thirty hours later. Nathan thanks for reaching out. He's VP of inbound guava box. Happy to take a look at HALE and give any feedback. I can looks like a cool tool. Long story short. Is we go back and forth a bunch. And then I say, hey sense. You do like this. Would you be willing to put this tech? I at the top of this article, and it was an article they wrote on the top vice faith five Facebook at boaters which short stack and wildfire were at the top of. I didn't emailed him. What I wanted the header to be Heo free contest builder and the text, you know, hey was a drag on Facebook, his, blah, blah, blah with the link which was a referral link for him. He put it in John. And now right after literally right after that happened 'cause I knew that already ranked soil. We were getting thirteen we average about thirteen new customers per week just from doing that one thing. So over a year, you do the math, right? It works. There's so many things I love about this on a semi random side notes. I have to the math on this. But I think that this podcast episode is the most words per minute of any of all time because when you put yourself in me together, we like both elevate each other's energy and speed of words, so fire nation, if you're listening to this on double speed, God help you because we are ripping through this content. And we're seeing a lot of stuff. So I love this. This is specifically. To be using with my new brands coming out in twenty nineteen fire nation. So this is something that you can be saying okay right now. How can I do something this going to get me there and bring in potentially thirteen twenty five however, many new clients per week that stuff adds up. It makes a huge love this stuff. So anything else you wanna say about the whole bloggers competitors and back links just at times money, John? And once you get this back link in there, it stays there for sometimes years, and it works in the background while you sleep while you do nothing. So just spend a week just executing the strategy get five to ten of them. And let it grow for you fire nation time is money. And if you go anywhere right now, when we take our break to think our sponsors, you're going to be wasting both your time, and you were going to be losing potentially earned money in the future because the value bombs as it's going to be dropping. We'll be right back. As entrepreneurs we face a variety of challenges every single day. But one of the biggest challenges I hear from other entrepreneurs on a daily basis in one that I face while growing. My own business is finding the. The right candidates to hire. Luckily, Zip Recruiter makes it easy. You'll see exactly what I mean. If you. Visit Zip Recruiter dot com slash fire to start ZipRecruiter send your job to over one hundred of the web's leading job boards, which saves you a ton of time. But they don't stop there next. Ziprecruiter's powerful technology scans thousands of resumes to identify people with the right skills and experience in actively in vice them to apply to your job. So you get qualified candidates fast. Ziprecruiter is so effective that eighty percent of employers who post on ZipRecruiter get a quality candidate through the site within the first day and right now, you can try Zip Recruiter for free at ZipRecruiter dot com slash fire. That's ZipRecruiter dot com slash fire. Ziprecruiter dot com slash fire. Ziprecruiter, the smartest way to hire. So Nathan were back in something that you've done this pretty cool because a lot of people in fire nation don't have one hundred thousand dollars to invest or venture capital or all different things. Let's talk about. Launching a five thousand dollar side project. You have a great story behind this. Yeah. Well, look, the book is called how to be a capitalist without any capital. Not how to be a trust fund baby. Get a million dollar loan. Go do anything you want to do them right fail because fail still right? Yeah. So the trick with this and actually this side project for me was actually built off my podcast. Right. So long story short as I was interviewing and I still do right interview beat ABI sassy os software CEO's every single day for fifteen minutes, and it's really aggressive. I'm probably the most sued podcast because I get them to share revenue numbers caq Arpad churn equity valuations things like that. And then the Email you back to like, oh, we can't share that up to. You're like sorry, exactly. Because I do what you do. Which is they have to check Mark when they took that says, we are rice the audio file specifically for this reason. And the board will send me cease and desist. Like Nathan, you've got are you or real evaluation revenue numbers like take it down right now? And these are big company something about to go public. So I say, no. And I went every time, but I have a wall cease and desist long. I short I realized I could use Google speech API, and essentially pull out all these metrics from each episodes that people can compare all three thousand CEO's I've interviewed with each other. And so I don't know how to code or use a speech API. So I just did this manually for one hundred episodes. So I created a Google doc, which basically the CEO name their business and their revenue their growth, wait how much equity they own their number. How they got their first and customers all that stuff. And I just put an audio placement in my feet. It wasn't unique. It wasn't an episode, but Johnny published a Lipson individual audio files. I actually posted the file like the title was like new data side project. So that in the tunes feed people saw that it wasn't like built in a middle. And so from that, we got ten people buy that excel sheet for about four hundred and ninety seven dollars twenty one hundred bucks right there. It was just an excel sheet, a Google, doc, basically. And so since then I then use that money to hire developer off top Dell. And which is a site kind of like. A freelancing site development. The okay good. So what's your audience and check it out you fired com slash top tell. Yeah. So I use them every develop product do go through them. And then if I find someone I like, I didn't spend more money and build a team around them because it's cheap. So anyways, they take excel sheet they make it into get black dot com, which is live today. And now that side project has gone from kind of I've thousand bucks now doing basically a hundred thousand dollars per month selling to private equity firms VC firms all this company business data. Oh, man. I mean fire nation. This is inside the mind of Nathan lack. I now one thing that you hate doing Nathan that I hate doing are tasks that we hate doing. I mean, it's just there's just things that we don't like doing as human beings. As entrepreneurs as people who are trying to create in are trying to push our businesses forward or trying to balance all these different things. So where are six places that we can find super cheap labor. So that we can actually stop doing these tasks that are wasting our time that are wasting our ban with it or wasting our money. How can we do that Jonah quick? Do you have you shared your cost episode is to produce a show not I've never broken down while it was a mind used to be very expensive. And I would say it was like two hundred fifty bucks episode. But I had a system of what had to happen. Like, the inputs were guests traffic editors me, the outputs where the episode sponsor avenue and influence and the stock thing in the middle. I'll go or downloads. And so what I do. They basically said how like where am I spending in two hundred fifty bucks now? And then how can I decrease on my costs? So what I did is I took essentially. The one page process files, for example, like how to export from e Cam into dry file to put the file back with the audio file, right? And and what I did have a guy named Aaron running that four which was driving up the cost of to fifty bucks. I basically took that process dock and gave it to ten different audio editors on fiber. They all had different prices somewhere five bucks somewhere as much as one hundred bucks. Just one thing I paid them. Although because I want to see who would give it back to me, the quickest and the most accurately, and so what I did is I narrowed that ten down to to give another new audio file to process it, and then one and ultimately ended up hiring one person who now owns the system today. And so basically, I found those people through fiber, but there are other sites. I run that same process on top for developers you're on up work for other people, and I list three other places inside the book where you can essentially go in and find cheap talent, execute these processes that either your executing right now, and you want to save your time or you're paying someone else to. Right now to do it. Another one is W virtual assistance, you use those folks up in northern New Orleans Saints, but it's basically single moms at home, whoever Joe assistance that you can pay related to anything fire nation, these other processes that are already created by people like Nathan, so just take them implement them into your business your life. Yes. You make a little time investment a little financial investment. They're going to be walking away with the person you need to execute these things and over the course of a month year, it's going to pay for herself a hundred thousand times over so little spoiler alert fire nation, but you know, soon Nathan he may forget my name because he's going to be a big TV star. He has a CNBC deal. This coming out pretty soon, and he's been able to leverage getting that deal with some awesome copywriting tricks and actually allowed him to get one point two million people to watch his Facebook live video so breakdown those copywriting tricks, and then of course, we want to know all about that CNBC Dell. Yeah. John this is back in may of twenty seventeen I had some cash laying around from some of the businesses, and when I say cash about five thousand bucks, and I said, I wonder if there's that can invest this somehow in a small business, and I said, well, you know, what what they did it alive. And I'll be the first one to admit I was watching like the Thai Lopez these out and running random ten thousand dollar checks or like these people that do it live and love him or hate him from marketing perspective it gets eyeballs. Right. So I said let me try my own spin on this. I clicked record on Facebook live. I walked from third and brazos in downtown Austin over to rainy street where there are a lot of food trucks. And I basically told my audience guys, I have a pen. And here's my checkbook, I want to invest in one of these food drugs or by their whole company on the spot. And I'd point the camera around John say, which food should go after grilled cheese. The euro company or means yummy Thai food. That's the first tack to hear Facebook live videos. You wanna let the audience literally control, you physically like, tell me where to walk left or right which truck show, I walk up to this kind of open loop, and that drives. Your friend. Any Puerto field is great this even when she's sitting at her desk doing webinar training on Facebook live. She always has these open. Loops like, wait. Here's what's coming up next giveaway an Amazon gift card, if you leave comments things like that. So it works. And so that that view, basically, they said Nathan go check out yum, yummy food. I walked up to me Thai food, and basically said let me get the pad Thai. I got it. And I said Ming surprise for you look at my phone, and there were only Johnny know, how when you're live on Facebook. It will show you the workout. Yeah. So there was only maybe a thousand people watching. But over time it grew to one point two million like total us on the video. So that people watching we're saying Nathan like here's what you should do with Ming because I got to tell me like her meal volume her sales revenue all that by just making her comfortable and kind of charming her a bit and buying a bunch of our product. And then ultimately ended up writing a six thousand dollar cheque to invest in means business which allowed her to buy the food truck decrease or loan payment, and she pay me back seventy five cents per meal in till I'm paid back and twenty five cents. Per meal in perpetuity, and I have now since made for Ming, we'd not only not only made my money back. But I helped her gore business. We tripled her meal volume by moving from the front of the back of the parking lot to the front where there's more foot traffic, and I'm paid back nine and make more investments. So my point is I own Facebook live. I was very nervous doing it. I'm not a nervous guy. But I was very nervous because it was real money, and those kinds of psychological things or you let you feel your ability you give them power over control of what you're doing. And then you ask them what kind of deal, should I write Ming, and they're proposing actually right on your check in the comments. You're giving them real control. That's allow them to get engaged. It drives up. Your drink ranking on Facebook comments and shares go up, and that's like got one point two million views on that Facebook live video, and you're gonna tell us about the CNBC deal say lead into that now. So yeah, what what happened was that's on Facebook watch page, and what happened was when the book, I don't know if you know this John, but when you work so my books male with a portfolio Random House, and they all. When they buy a book title, they put it in. This really underground form that only TV executives and the publishing houses have access to and it basically allows the TV executives gone option rights to books, and so John, I know you hang out with people that I think Tim has done. Tim Ferriss has done this. I think with some of his content, but long story short is I got outreach when the book deal got launch a bunch of TV executives that said, hey, we'd love to consider, you know, meet you and think about this and linear version on cable and so- CNBC was one of them in the trick. Is here. I started producing these Facebook watch videos myself without anyone else an inch was getting a million a million views. So when I eventually got C a and UTA, and w me all the big talent agencies to compete to get me to sign with them. I sign with a and said, listen, just you understand. I don't need this deal with a major network because at my own show and CNBC might only get three hundred thousand people watching every night. I get one point two million. So I made sure they realize I didn't need the deal. So I have leverage and that leverage able my agent. To negotiated deal. CNBC that is larger than many of the deals to shark Sav on shark tank with their network. It's a huge it's fantastic deal. And the the show will go live later this year called million dollar listing on CNBC not a million dollar road trip. I'm not a real estate trip. Million dollar road trip. I love so much about this and fire nation. It goes back to something that Nathan did in. I wanna really bring a full circle around this which is let people control what you do. And what he means by that. Of course is on Facebook, you want to get people involved having to be engaged to feel like they're part of what you're next decisions going to be part of your life. Because then they're going to stay there. They're gonna come. And that's all going to help that Edry that he was talking about quick quick size during then have you ever heard or listen to the podcast business wars wondering produce them the red logo? Yes. It's amazing amazing podcast often raven other business podcasts on my show. But this is one that I will because it's so phenomenal. They just did one. Mcdonald's versus Burger King and Burger King. This is like back in the mid nineties, by the way, Burger King came out with this campaign, and essentially was control the chicken, and it was a guy dress up a chicken suit, and they brought him into this dark Dungy room. And they had him do about like a thousand or two thousand different actions like jump on one foot. Like waves raises hand and waved to all these things in a chicken suit a guy, and then they record all of that. And then that was dumb, but then they Rabl to make it happen. So that people again, this is back in the mid nineties. This stuff wasn't really that possible. People could go to the website, and they could typing commands, and then the chicken would do that. And the fact that people could control what the chicken was doing caused it to be viral sensation. And that's just like the two thousand nineteen version of what Nathan's doing right now. And he's going out. He's hey, where do I go left or right? Take me on the shoes your own adventure. Netflix doing it with a new movie Bander snatch like we love being in control. The choose your adventure stuff is critical. It's unbelievable. Nathan we've been wrapping now for a little while about all this awesome stuff. I want to turn all the focus now to your book to your book launch, which is how to be a capitalist without any capital break down for share with us y fire nation to read this book. Listen to this book via the audiobook version in work, we get this and. It's not right for everyone. This isn't a book that is kind of like based on a rule set you can quickly like follow one by one. What I did. I just put a ton of screen shots of things that helped me make money or got me leverage over the past two years and put it in air. So that the breakdown of the Booker such four rules that you've got a break if you want to build wealth and thirty six stories of how I've done that over the past call it year to two years and that ranges from on on side project to getting into your first realistic deal with no money down to getting free trips on Instagram like we spoke about, but anyways, you know, the first person that buys the book, essentially has the most leverage because these things won't work for everyone. That's the nature of building wealth, you the first person to market wins. So this won't be robot in a year. People wanna grab it right now. And John, I really appreciate you. Let me come on and share this with your audience neighbor way as much as possible for free. But if you if you want to go deeper and actually see the scripts CD other thirty three stories see, my income report, actually my tax returns. I put on page six of the book when I was twenty one of my dorm room. They can go to just go to capitalist book dot com or just search how to be a capitalist without any capital on Amazon love. This fire nation Nathan gives it all away. That's why he's done over thirteen hundred episode with the top. That's why he's just dropping value bombs all day every single day, again, these are the exact scripts these are the screen show us. This is the truth. You can just pick up in utilize and see if it works. And if it does great if it doesn't make a little tweak make little judgment, and then make it happen because fire nation, you're the average of the five people you spend the most time with and you've been hanging out in you've been hanging out with NFL and J L D today. So keep up the heat, and of course, head directly to capitalist book dotcom. Snag your copy of this again, this is not going to be relevant for long, which is a pretty cool. Little different twist and putting on here. It's weird. They hate it. We'll see. But it is so true. Nathan how you talk about first movers advantage because guess what Rosh my podcast back in two thousand twelve. I was not a good podcast. But I was the first mover. I was the first date on twenty twelve ever look back on my gosh, I've been doing this for like seven. That's crazy. Seven years, and I wasn't spot up by the way. Spotify Gimblett deal a good one or not. I think it's a good deal for Gimblett interesting. Okay. Yes. Two hundred million bucks by Spotify. Thought of you. When I saw the news. I said I'd have to ask John about this. Did you know that I was the first insect run investor? And that's why when I was looking at the crunch base profile that oh, this is why have to ask John about it? So I assume it's great for you. And anyone that was in early. Yeah. We got a pretty interesting investor update actually today as we talked because the news just became officials. You and I are wrapping right now. But this is going to be great for people that are Atkin. I believe in our part of the Gillan invested team, obviously Spotify man, that's a lot of money for content. Production business, you know here. I'm not talking about about game understand. That's a lot of money, but they also bought anchor which was interesting Spotify also anchor at the same time. So they're really going big on this. They believe they've out two by by entrepreneur. I can't talk about that. Right. And they're definitely not definitely not to invest in. You right now. How much are you? Right. Becky you by the way. So it's invest in each other. We're good. But if I r- nation, I want you to get over to capitalist book dot com because the first mover advantage is real. That's why I wanted podcasting. And that's why so many people have one and what they do knuckles. They're necessarily the best is because they were the first and they get exponential results from that capitalist book dotcom. Nathan thank you for sharing these value bombs the fire nation today for that brother, we salute you, and we'll catch you on the flip side, sir. Hey, fire nation. Today's value bombs were brought to you by Nathan lacquer. And if you're ready to rock your business. Well, then you need to check out free. Podcasts course dot com because that's how Nathan I grew a huge huge audience and how you can start building your audience's, well, free, podcasts course dot com. I will catch you there fire nation or I'll catch you on the flip side. Hiring is challenging, but there's one place. You can go were hiring is simple fast. And smart that place is Zip Recruiter dot com slash fire post your job with one click, then their powerful matching technology scans millions of resumes across his network of hundreds of job wars to find the right people for your job and actively invites him to apply. So you get qualified candidates fast in right now, you can try Zip Recruiter for free at ZipRecruiter dot com slash fire. That's Zip Recruiter dot com slash fire. Ziprecruiter, the smartest way to hire.

Nathan John Facebook Instagram Ziprecruiter developer CNBC Warner Andrew Warner Moscow Tim Ferriss CEO Colorado Airbnb Spotify southeast Asia Austin Nathan lacquer Amazon
Building a rental property management software with Nathan Miller

The Agile Entrepreneur Podcast

25:07 min | Last month

Building a rental property management software with Nathan Miller

"Dan. Welcome to one more episode of the Agile Entrepreneur podcast and video cast. So today I'm GonNa talk to a gentleman who in the real? Estate? Industry. Both from a technology side as well as investment developers. So Nathan Miller is the president and CEO of rented direct a popular property management software. That helps property managers and landlords. With their day to day tasks Nathan is also real estate investor and developer and. Proud husband and father so very eager to meet. Nate Hey Nitin. Nate. Nathan. Nathan is Great. Thank you. Fantastic. Nathan welcome to. Your podcast. Thanks for having me. Great. So I introduce unit but if you could tell in your own words, what is direct and what do you do with that? Yeah, well, rent direct is I it's a, it's a project that I started as a as more or less a hobby because I was and still am a landlord and needed technology to help me be more efficient. It started gaining properties and managing properties on my own. I realize there's there's a lot of stuff that goes into it. You have a lot of things to keep track of not just you know accounting records for taxes, but you've got maintenance and you got you know who late and you have tenant communication and all this stuff. Once I had five or six rentals I was managing became a little little excessive to took a lot of brain power and the time to. To to think about in that to maintain and I also had a full time job. So part of my background is software developer and self tie and I understand how technology can help people be more efficient. So I went out on a journey to make my landlord activities more efficient through software and created a application to to to to help me with all those tasks anything that could be automated I automated. and. and now was the beginning of direct. It was not necessarily intended to be a business or what it turned into today. But what that ended up morphing into is a a software application that now helps about fifteen thousand property managers and landlords, and we've added a lot of stuff in the last ten years to make the life of property managers easy and kind of cool because you know being a property managers risen sound that glamorous. But but we cannot provide them tools that make things better for their tenants and so tennis can pam lines they can select the best tenants, some anyways. In a nutshell we provide software to property managers I. It's you kind of think of it like where the quickbooks four, the property management industry, but we add in all the various special stuff that property managers need in order to excel in their market. Xm. Nathan. So now now that we have a very good bag on about your company so let's trace the journey of companies. So you were a landlord first and then at what point? Did, you actually take the fuster steps to right application. This is is probably about two thousand, seven when when I did this and. Let's see. I had I believe about five units I was managing and that's where It became too much work to do it on the side without help. So I had to at that point, make a decision. Do I focus less on this or focus more on and it was right at that point I decided you know what I'm going to I was actually very excited about the prospect of creating. An application and I decided I'm just going to set my alarm early and I'm going to wake up early and I'm GonNa work on this before work and and I got so excited about the prospects of what this could become and how much you could help me and a few other landlords that I didn't need the alarm anymore. My mind was racing it. You know three or four in the morning. I'd wake up wide eyed and it'd be racing so so excited to go do it. Yeah. So then you're billing application in the morning then in the evenings at how long did it take for? You do feel comfortable with application. I initially was just build. With myself in mind and so I didn't have very high expectations like what it's GonNa look like or how well it's going to function because I. Just I had these I had a few things I wanted it to do, and so I was really focused on those and my initial idea wasn't to create a company out of it but I did want to make the software available to any other landlord that was like me that could also use the help. And my plan was just give it away like anyone anyone can use it. It's GonNa take me a few months to make this and I'm just going to give it away. Let anyone else use it just just to help. So anyways that Let's see. I think I, forgot your question. Where we started with that along the, you do actually start using application. Okay. So probably six months before I got a true value out of it and was able to put my. My properties into properties in doing right and then so you or your first customer even though not paying SORTA. So. Then once you got it, then you are wanting to give it away and then did you give away to other property managers? Well just landlords at first. So it started out as an applications specifically for private landlords and I did. I I bought the domain rent direct DOT COM. And I went and found the template I think it was like a template from some German template, creator which. I thought looked. In retrospect it was hideous but. But I liked it. So So I just like us this template and put a little bit of information about the program up there and created a form. So anyone else could sign up and use it right away it. They didn't have to contact me or anything they just sign up and use it and get the value out of it that I did. So is a web application or is it something that they need to download onto computer? It's fully web based. So cloud hosted service. Okay. So now you gave it away at what point did it become? Like did you turn that into getting paying customers? Okay. So I gave it away and for almost two years and yeah, and and I kept improving because I needed more stuff and and I also was supporting it via email only at that point and I would have to be at night because I had a day job. So and I would take the the feedback that I get from folks that were using it, and if it made sense of where it helped me help everyone else you know using the software and and if I had the time to develop it, then out go ahead and do it and in right in there. So it was about two years of that time just supporting it via email adding little stuff nathan. If I can ask a question, how many people are you talking about in the two years? Timeframe is applied ten. Because it's an award supporting these people. It is and that's partly why we ended up creating a company out of it but not two year period we probably had about three or four hundred people using the software. No kidding. Blew me away. And then you will not even charging. Wow. Good. Please keep going well. So that's what that's what actually ended up creating a company is you know we had a few hundred people using the software they're using completely free and and they were wanting support. So even though you know you use a application on the Internet, you find Peoplesoft questions they need you know they want to get training, they want new features maybe they don't have an and these are some of these features might have been things that would do me or anyone else you know no. Good. So not something I could just jump on and do. For free. So at that point with the demand for support in the demand for additional features. Decided Hey. We've got a lot of people using the software. Let's go ahead. Let's go ahead and incorporate. Let's make a company out of this and I'm going to hire my first person because I still have a fulltime job and I need someone to be able to answer the phone. So it was at that point it was around two thousand, nine we hired first employees here today she's awesome and And then it was that got the ball rolling. Now we're an official corporation and we started charging a very small nominal amount for the software at that point. Okay. So now we talked about incorporating the business. I, mean, you get long time to incorporate your business. Unlike the other entrepreneurs I talked to all time. So then how did you come up with the pricing? I looked at what we needed to pay our employees and to add some additional development and then looked at what the market would bear what other software applications out there that might be similar to ours and priced it I would say we've generally remained however hokuapp remained twenty to thirty percent less than most other comparable software out there though. Okay. So then Afterwards did it organically grow our? Marketing efforts advertising and sales to really get new customers. I feel like we started off in the beginning with a lot of word of mouth. It was landlord telling landlord and buddy telling buddy like, Hey, I'm using the software. It's helped me out a lie go check it out and at the beginning it was free and then later on you know I, mean I feel like church like twenty or thirty cents a unit at the beginning So. It costs hardly nothing for a landmark with you know ten or twenty units to use the software. So tons word of mouth, and then actually branched into servicing property managers, and that's it's similar property managers very similar to a landlord with the exception that they're managing properties on behalf of others. So there's the whole trust accounting aspect. It's little more complex as far as the accounting stuff, but we kept getting by property managers say hey. You have this cool software. The owner I just signed is using and does it work for us and for you know a a while we? You know we said Noah. Sorry we don't have trust account in there but you know we got enough of those requests that we decided. Hey, let's Let's add on these features. The property managers need branched into adding property management support in there. Okay. So two thousand nine onwards is started. became a business. So if you could explain the growth how did it go to your ear How many more customers you're getting and was there a like hockey stick growth that happened at some point of time? We've actually had very steady growth. If I look at our our charts, we look at having about thirty percent. It's a very steady line looks almost exactly like that thirty percent year over year over year. Now, of course, each year that thirty percent gets a little bit harder because you're building on the previous year So we do more and more every year to keep maintaining that thirty percent but we're eleven years in continuing to do that same thirty percent and and I feel like we don't have that hockey stick that you see in some corporations because we didn't have that point where you're cruising along growing organically and then you get ten million dollars to like throw into a big. Giant marketing campaign we never accepted investors or anything. So we based on our organic growth I feel like it's much more steady incline for us. Excellent. So now you brought up another topic that I wanted to get into investors right so let's talk about the cost piece of it. So I two years it's your time afloat and then your anywhere landlords. So you're using it for your purpose. So you're getting benefit out of it and then but afterwards, you got the employees on the price up. So that that is some amount of profit for you did the costs keep going up as you kept building the business are you always had if you could talk a little bit of Kansai? Yeah. So with a were software as a service at SAS business and our cost, our initial cost of goods was servers got a you know I we provided our own. We quickly Greg that and started using like Amazon Google. Servers But as we scale the number of clients that we have the number of servers, the amount of resources we use A. thera scale however it's that's really easy. It's been very easy for us to maintain that because if you get one hundred clients, you know we have to have maybe ten percent more capacity and it's very easy to follow that and the tools that are available through those services these days make it real easy to either even automatically these days so Aside, from that, we've this with employees in our cost of employees have gone up and as we've added new products like a tenant screening products and stuff, we have a true cost of goods with everyone of those that we we sell. So those say all those expenses have risen. While our entire growth thirty percents all those arising ten to twenty percent on their own. I see. So did it ever happen where you thought you needed outside investment or whatever? I've never thought so okay and. Not that we haven't had offers I you know delete probably. Three to ten emails a day from various visas that you know want to want to get involved in the business It's just it's something I've never really been interested in for this business I feel like we've had a very very sustainable organic growth pattern and I'm really happy with that and also happy with the amount of market that's available to us and I feel like we can continue approaching that. A very steady steady method without without funding. Excellent. So this is this is very interesting student anthem that you'll have here with respect to how you agree a business. You almost I, mean I. Never, thought of getting into business, just using it for your own purposes, and then you saw the success of it, and then you made a business al-fayed our what are the next steps for the business? You know I'd like to say we're GONNA. We're GONNA keep doing what we're doing and You know what I mean by that is we're going to continue servicing our market really really well, there's you know if you look nationwide, which are you know the United States. Is Our primary market. We've got about three hundred, thousand potential clients out there. And we have fifteen thousand of them right now. So there, I, mean the sky's the limit we could. You know go crazy and help as many of those as we can. We also fairly limited Competition in the market. There's not most of our competitors are larger big funded companies and they're going after the big fish and we're going after you know what? They would call the small fish, which would be a landlord or a property manager with less than a thousand units You know they they waived those off and we're like Oh. Yes we love you come. We'd love to help you. So we have a market to go after. And we're, GONNA. Say, we're GONNA, stay laser focused on improving that market and making those property managers have the same cool technology maybe even better cooler technology than the big guys out there so they can excel and and grow. Great Nathan. That's good. So again, one of the things that is. Very passionately something on agile entrepreneurship, which is now don't wait for the perfection stop doing right away and keep doing something every day and then things fairly loan from it and then pick up from what you've learned and then keep building for the business. So from that concept of anything that comes. Across from Your Business. Concepts of entrepreneurship that you might have implemented. Well I I would say we take things day by day. No matter what we don't have a anyone behind us. Telling us. You know here's your here's the path you have to take. So we get to make those decisions and. Some of the things we've done over the years just to keep things lively around here and growing is is a lot of stuff for our employees and So this was A. You know a quick decision was made years and years ago. But we decided that this environment people spend eight hours a day here and we want. To, enjoy coming here because I want I enjoy them at work and I want all of our employees to enjoy into work. So so what we've done with that as we've, we've created a enjoyable. Environment for people to come to involves lots of games, lots of coffee lots of lots of fun lots of Camaraderie. Aside from that we we take a Lotta feature requests in from from our clients. They're you know everyday we probably get. Fifty you know like, Hey, can you make the softer schemic softer do that and we can track of every single one. Our clients may not recognize. We do that because it's so many and sometimes things can get lost but we do pay attention to every single one and when something amazing you know when something that sounds like it's going to help a lot of people comes through We do. We've got the flexibility to jump right on it and like an example of that in the property management industry is. property managers need to know how much their tenants make to make sure that they can afford the property renting. So when we were presented by a company up in Seattle to automate process and be able to instantly confirm the income of attendant we saw that as very valuable to our clients and it was less than two weeks after seeing that that we're able to deliver that to our clients. So that's pretty agile. So, Nathan if I could get into a little bit in this segment, the final segment, the operations of. Your Business Jan, what you can, and and things that you can share that confidential. A particular. So some of the things in the in the software development side of the world is a project management writer j you said, you keep taking lots of feature requests and fifty day and things like that. So are there any tools that that were very beneficial to you in this operational aspects with the project management and tracking of the bugs, attracting of the features and things like that? Well, we we love a program called get hub. It's it's a version management system, and they also have some project capabilities in a and bug tracking issue reporting capabilities. We use that out of that program and it keeps getting better all the time. So if you're and no matter what against hobbies, the one that's bought by Microsoft. Did. I think I remember hearing that yeah they did. Yeah. It wasn't too long ago. Right Yes so It's a terrific tool for any development language We used to use subversion prior to that and subversion has this many features and get hub has this many features. So we're really happy with that move. And then the other thing that I think has been. It's a very analog method of keeping track features but one thing we do is everyone on our team whether they're in our. Customer Service Department or ourselves department. If they hear something more than five times they need to report it and that's that's the trigger. If you hear the same thing, five times, get it in the system so and then we keep track of it. So once it's on someone's mind five times Then we keep track specifically how many times been requested And once we hit a certain threshold. That's when we go to work in start working on it. Hey, Nathan I, heard of other tools called us our Trello or slack some of those things that I'm hearing lot more. Do us any of them in your enterprise I've looked at a couple of project management tools and I find that they can be useful but. But we haven't executed on any of those we do slack doesn't everybody now this? But we use that for office communication and integrates get hub and a few other tools for years as well. Okay. So fantastic. So the last segment so Nathan if you could talk a little bit about yourself. What kind of person are you? I mean, you're definitely are investor. You really want to create a good environment and I think you're proud to say your trout husband and a father. So. Your personality come across from you. Talked about a little bit if you could say who you are and what drives you. Thanks will yeah like like you said, I. Am A. Husband. For Two, two boys, ten year old and a six month old they're amazing I love getting home to them. That's why we do all. This is to create a wonderful life for for them Let's see aside from that I really enjoy developing and I joke with my wife about are actually she jokes with me more often like what inventing today and you know because it's you know it's Just, like in the old days, you invent, you know a spyglass or you know a telescope or something these days a lot of inventions happened in code, and so I kind of like thinking about that way I get to be a little inventor when when I'm get to work on a project. So and then you know I I love what I do I'm I've been doing this for twelve years everyone else around here about ten and I still enjoy coming in and doing it. So I I enjoy an entrepreneur, I enjoy being an inventor, I enjoy Vienna father and a husband. So this fulltime now. It is. Yes. Yeah. So finally at what point did you quit? So I was involved in another business it was an Internet service and I. Slowly transitioned out of that kind of went to part time. And then zero time after about four years. So two, thousand eleven nine or something like that. Priority Yeah. Okay. Good. So the final segment. The Nathan based on your experience for aspiring entrepreneurs. What advice would you give and things that you wish you could have done differently in a combination of? In this final question is. Well First Baron entrepreneurs. I would say if you are going to create a company be excited about it, you have to love what you're doing. If you're creating something that sounds boring or monotonous, you're probably not going to be as successful if you're creating something that you're passionate about so. So, look for that, and then not what I like to remind people of the are interested in not you know in moving from their day job to accompany of their own is all these companies be it direct vehic? Google, be it You Know Microsoft is? All these companies, giant ones, and the small ones they all came from an idea an idea that someone had to create something that didn't exist or create improve something that does exist and as much as we like to think today like everything that's has been invented. You know everything's been invented. There's nothing left. Not True, there's tons of things there's new ideas around all the time. So if if you see something that doesn't exist that would benefit you very likely it's going to benefit other people you might be able to create a company out of it. Fantastic Nathan RENTA direct. Dot Com Nathan Miller is a see you on founder. So fantastic journey it's a very unusual journey to be entrepreneur in terms of so you started giving away on. Then that's how you got a lot out of it It's in my mind boggling to me that you have three, hundred, four hundred customers, and before you actually started charge. So so great story Nathan. Thank you very much for coming in Malta. Appreciate having me. Thank you.

Nathan property manager Nathan Miller Google Microsoft Nate president and CEO software developer Nathan I tennis hockey Peoplesoft developer United States Seattle official