3 Episode results for "mycotoxin Mycotoxin"
#02 Is Cannabis Safe? Part Two: Contaminants in Cannabis
"You're listening to the curious about cannabis podcast now and the ongoing vaping crisis as the CDC reports at least eighteen deaths now connected to vaping aping related illnesses lawmakers across the country weighing whether to put restrictions on it or ban. It altogether. Everybody this is Jason Wilson with a curious about cannabis podcast podcast. Thanks so much for tuning in once again now. This episode is part. Two of a three part series exploring cannabis safety and harm reduction. He hasn't listened to the first part of the series. A I really recommend stopping this episode and going back to listen to the series from the beginning now. Previously we explored some of the main chemicals that are found in cannabis and what the associated toxicity profiles are. We looked at the adverse health risks associated with cannabis and how cannabis can interact with medications. Today we're going. That'd be focusing on a critical topic that has a huge impact on the safety of cannabis products. And that's cannabis contaminants and so far everything we've explored about about the health risks of cannabis civic ignored a really critical element in that's contaminants so far. We've been assuming that if you're using cannabis that cannabis abyss must be clean. But unfortunately that's not always the case the cannabis contaminants that were looking at Anthony. Smith is a biochemist. Oh chemist that has spent the last five years analyzing cannabis products for potency purity in labs all across the United States and Canada. Ten minutes we're looking for are pesticides hides solvents heavy metals micro-toxins and then also microbiological contaminants eat holy and or s attack which is a Shiga Toxin E. Coli Salmonella Djilas a total mold or total. Aerobic plate counts Katrina nonspecific bacteria the most common contaminants that we find are definitely pesticides. I I would say four or five years ago. It was like a rampant rampant thing Where you know at times in Oregon's some times of of the year we were seeing pesticide-product failure rates at twenty percent or more I think the industry got a little bit of a black guy but honestly flee those rates today in Oregon Also in California for pesticide fails or in the two to four percent. Wow range it's fairly low and I mean back again back in the day I mean. A lot of those pesticide fails were products. That were consciously sprayed on the material. Either they didn't know that those materials were persist into the product or didn't care or didn't consult the list of things I don't know but today mostly when we talk to clients that have pesticide fails it it. Now it it's It's either a mistake or something that it was overlooked or sometimes unlisted unlisted product or just kind of a lack of control You Know An- An- not properly trained wind. Farm technician found something maybe in the farmhouse garage instead of in the sort of validated growing area and used it by accident or yeah whatever Sometimes agricultural over spray from Either neighboring cannabis farms or Gosh in Florida. A lot of products is coming up with Malathion. But there's parts of Florida where helicopters appears fly over neighborhoods spraying malathion swampy areas. So you're not paying attention to that and your greenhouses. He's just sucking it in and blowing it before we continue. Let's talk a little bit more about pesticides now. Many pesticides are designed to disrupt corrupt the nervous systems or hormone signaling in insects. The effect this has is basically excites the insect so much that it becomes paralyzed and eventually dies now. The problem is that the same effect can happen in humans. If someone is exposed to enough of a certain pesticide for long enough periods of time and you might be thinking what's the big deal about pesticides and cannabis specifically are we already exposed. Pesticides are food. Well technically that's true unfortunately but the problem relates to the way in which cannabis is consumed. You see when you eat something if if it has pesticides in it your liver goes to work to try to metabolize those products and get them excreted out of the body. It helps keep you safe and helps limit the amount of pesticides that actually reach your bloodstream. And get distributed throughout your entire body. Ever when you smoke something. You're bypassing that metabolic process. You're not allowing things to go through the normal route and get Go through what's called First Pass metabolism and allow the liver to break down some of these do things before it reaches your blood in your lungs. You've got these little sex called Alveoli that are basically the sites of gas and blood exchange so when you breathe in oxygen this is where the oxygen passes through the lungs and into the blood. Well when you he smoked cannabis in you inhale that cannabis smoke if it has pesticides in it. Those pesticides will actually pass through that barrier and reach your blood and then get distributed throughout your body without your liver ever having a chance to help you out. So that's really the main difference why smoking things with pesticides in them is such a bigger. Your problem than eating things have pesticides in them. Additionally some pesticides like Michael Butte nil which is a common fund aside often often used by cannabis cultivators can actually degrade into toxic compounds. Like hydrogen cyanide when they're heated. It's also really important point out that many pesticides as well as micro-toxins can become concentrated in cannabis extracts the whole process of making a cannabis concentrate concentrate can elevate contaminants like pesticides as much as five to ten times. The concentration that they were found in the cannabis flower. That was used to make them. This means if you're consuming cannabis concentrate your potentially being exposed to much greater doses of contaminants than if you're consuming the cannabis flower that was used to produce. That concentrate. Concentrate also WANNA point out that it's not enough to simply test or cannabis flower contaminants prior to making a concentrate. It's totally possible for there to be very trace amounts of pesticides or other contaminants present on that cannabis flower. That are not gonNA show up on any testing but once once you make that cannabis concentrate in those contaminants get concentrated. All of a sudden. You'll start to see them on tests at dangerous levels now. Let's go back to our conversation with Dr Smith Microbial contaminants At least on the Salmonella E-coli N.. Honestly we don't really see any significant it failure rates With modern shelf cannabis. That stuff is all pretty clean. Those are contaminants generally come from manure or UH At hand washing and so In California occasionally. We do see some problems with that in manufactured or infused products Because they're you know I didn't wash their hands making the cakes or whatever again that's though. Yeah and not not really a cannabis thing We do detect ASPERGILLUS We use PCR polymerase chain reaction Shen as a as a screening tool So this is a way to look for the genetic signature of a bunch of different microbes rapidly in a reaction and then if when we do get positive hits Those are always confirmed by direct culture. Plates So aspergillus is still still kind of a thing. this is why a lot of states require moisture moisture content measurement and or water activity measurements. What is this is a means of benchmarking? How dry your materials are in that? They're you're cured to a certain level so you don't have to worry about moulder a Growing out yeah absolutely Also you know while we're talking about mold and Fudgy ASPERGILLUS and other dark-colored molds produce their own sort of form of pesticides called mycotoxin. There are a number of micro-toxins is that are required to be tested for again. Not yet in Oregon I would. I would imagine that to the chemists. They look much like pesticides with respect to their chemistry and analyze them. SPEC in California Rupe has a specific requirement for mycotoxin testing. And so I would say the failure rate for those of you know about similar to the mold failure. Those are really the signature of mold down but they are persistent where you probably would only find mold in cannabis flower. Our time just like pesticides do occasionally be taxed micro-toxins in more finished products in raisins infused is products micro-toxins once produced or super super stable. They're very heat tolerant. Even under high pressure they seem to be able to survive those processes and unlike most pesticides like we know mycotoxin Mycotoxin hypoxia and and persistently or cumulatively they cause cumulative liver damage like your lifetime dose if you will matters a lot of pesticides e certainly. Don't want a lot of them in your bloodstream. They actually do from food but a lot of those are very well. Broken down by the liver and they're generally not that toxic pick below a certain level. That sounds funny to say but still yeah X.. The poison right. Yeah exactly mycotoxin is not so much. YEAH THEY THEY A. They do. Cause liver damage cumulatively. And so it's definitely not something that you want in your food. Yeah and they're They're pretty carcinogenic to from what I understand and It's something that When Oregon was developing the rules of surprised That might be toxins. Assume there was discussion about it early on and then it kind of fell out. But it's something that we you know some work trying to look at that and you know we were able to confirm like it's around for sure. Yeah it's it's fly around you know not super common but you know just in the context of public health and safety especially with how popular extracts are getting getting More and more in vape pens and dabbing and all this thing You know I have some pretty serious concerns about exposure to micro-toxins sins as well as pesticides and everything but pesticides seem to be one of the first contaminants. The state's catch onto that needs to be tested for. And so there's you know a lot more control over pesticides than there are micro-toxins and it's so common for Producers to take a Flower material that might be moldy or otherwise can't be sell sold his flour and to extract it turn it into Concentrate and then can sell that. So what about Heavy metals in cannabis products in twenty thirteen or twenty fourteen Jeff Roeber of the workshop published some paper where they were finding heavy metals in the vapor stream of low-quality VIP cartridges on. So we've been thinking about it for awhile and encouraging they tend manufacturers to when they buy these materials get several different samples and bring handfuls of until the lab and you know will wash them either with like acidic water or symptoms James. MCAT oily what might come through and a lot of indeed do leads a lot of lettuce and it's primarily lead yeah but also some mercury we do see. Some arsenic fails at times in cannabis. The story there that that had a manufacturer farm an indoor place And they were anticipating doing metals tests on their final stuff and so they didn't really want to wait until the end and see and so these guys were smart And when there are many plants were fairly immature just at the start of the budding stage stage like we went and collected much materials BISA basically immature buds and they were loaded with arsenic. Oh Wow so that prompted a a test of the soil and water and the media and everything that we could and turns out At the end of that story Lori was a bunch of nasty. Rock will Oh Wow so. It's Swiss growth medium. Yeah wow it was just off the charts With arsenic leaching of contaminants from cultivation processing or packaging equipment is an issue that people working in the natural products industry offended. Think about for quite some time over some cannabis. Companies are still learning about best practices when it comes to these sorts of things. This is ultimately putting consumers at risk spoke with Travis Simpson and herbal scientists. That spent the past several years working with him. In the cannabis industry knee shared some of his concerns regarding contaminants. It's for a manufacturing and packaging equipment. Chemical compatibility is an ongoing issue. I see within conventional thc and hemp processing using environments A lot of manufacturers or utilizing equipment that has not been thoroughly validated and tested and can in some circumstances be utilizing realizing solvents that might be denatured with other components in order to reduce cost manufacturing so one of the big areas that we see is as ethanol manufacturers using things like painting natured alcohol. And how that has an actual impact on some of the fluid transfer equipment president using the manufacturing process terrapins are one of the great chemical classes produced by the cannabis plant we in natural products world would refer to that whole mixture as just essential oils That can be derived from steam distillation sub critical co two extraction Some very cold hydrocarbon extraction such as propane based extracts yield a very turpin rich product that Unless handled with the appropriate chemically compatible material can cause considerable leaching that will bleed into the products without any test methods in place to identify those some other than organoleptic rubbery mm-hmm or acrid smell. That might come from some silicone products. Used for either in the world. Old Butane propane extraction on the pershing steps. are an area where chemical ability can become a very considerable issue but the essential oil market Some of these products can have as much as seven to ten percent on essential oil by mass without ever being packaged in a method that takes consideration the assault. That might have on say a silicone gasket For a jar LID starting to Encourage consumers to have compatibility conversations with their preferred manufacturer. I think is really really good. Way To bring that topic up in a non-confrontational way but at least provide the questions the manufacturer to enable them an opportunity you to express how they're addressing compatibility within their production system and those manufacturers that cannot provide forthcoming information on their compatibility strategies. Tragedies would be a red flag as a consumer choice. Yeah one of the really important things to note regarding most of these contaminants including things things like pesticides. Metals and Mike. Toxins in really particularly with metals. micro-toxins is that you're not necessarily going to have an immediate reaction when you're exposed opposed to these toxins. These things can build up in the body over time and you may not exhibit any symptoms for a long time before the body finally reaches a tipping point in. Then you're in trouble so just because you've consumed canvas product and you didn't notice any adverse effects that doesn't necessarily mean that you're not being exposed supposed harmful contaminants. This is why it's really important to verify that approx been tested for contaminants prior to using it. And they'll just take someone's word for it when they say that it's been quote unquote tested. What was tested for? He need to ask really pointed questions was tested for pesticides was tested for metals. was tested for micro-toxins you know for instance Currently at the time of this recording in the state of Oregon where I am Metals and micro-toxins are not required required to be tested for in cannabis products however in California. They are so depending on where you are when someone says that something's been tested community very very different things. It doesn't necessarily mean that canvas product is free from contaminants so the takeaway from some of these. Discussions is pretty clear to me. No the purity of your cannabis before consuming but this is easier said than done. There's still many places in the. US and abroad. That have not legalized legalized cannabis or establish. Strict testing requirements for campus for users. That are getting their cannabis from the black market. The really left at the mercy of their suppliers quality and unfortunately this can sometimes lead to tragic consequences. We've got a public health crisis out there right now now with additives in vape pen to Rousseau's referring to recent string of fatalities linked to lung infections or lung damage associated with vape pens. People are calling it a vape crisis. The latest tonight as the OPIOID epidemic hits Pennsylvania. Today the state reported its first vaping relabel. Deanna residents events have died from severe lung injuries. Leveraging from New York has become the youngest person to reportedly die from vaping. Yeah linked to a lung injury because vaping is as being reported here. Enron twenty deaths that have been linked to vaping related lung disease in the United States Department of Health. They're happened five. Cases of AP related lung disease in the state and so far and the textile department has confirmed a death in north Texas from lung injuries related. vaping have learned that a bronx teen was the first New Yorker worker to die from a vaping related illness today the CDC report of the number of cases in the US has reached almost thirteen hundred in forty nine states now and the ongoing vaping crisis lawmakers across the country weighing whether to put restrictions on it or ban it altogether at the time of this recording there have been twenty nine recorded deaths and over thirteen two hundred reported cases of lung infections or damaged linked to vape pens and these reports are growing at a rapid rate while the exact culprit responsible for for these illnesses and deaths has not been yet defied the CDC does not know the cost. There are all kinds of things circulating about what might have been the cause investigators. Investigators suspect it has something to do with additives or contaminants. That actually has nothing to do with cannabis. It has everything to do with additives. That are toxic that are put in these devices on so it can happen with nicotine. vape pens. It could happen with cannabis cannabis vape pens or whatever But I put the finger on the government. you wouldn't have the situation if we had had a legal Commerz Federally in cannabis and he had standards apply to Any of these products. The biggest one hundred percent preventable. If these things were available and regulated properly there'd be no need for kids to be going to a street corner to purchase black-market vape pens with dangerous ingredients. There's other evidence that contaminants in canvas have caused very serious problems for some people as well. which in rare cases has led to death? There are several case studies available of patients that contracted fatal lung infections. Such as a condition called ASPERGILLOSIS. ASPERGILLOSIS is a condition where the spores of certain species of aspergillus fungi. It nestled and small little scrapes grapes and crevices in the lungs where they begin to grow forming a fungal mass. Call Gymnast Purge Aloma. This ultimately starts to break down lung function and it can be fatal in some. Fatal cases reported contaminated cannabis was deemed to be a contributing factor. And possibly the sole cause. This is more common in immune compromise users than regular healthy users but that just highlights the tragedy. Here many people would serious. Health conditions are turning cannabis as a medicine in those patients. The ones that are most vulnerable to the adverse health effects consuming contaminated cannabis. Let's review what we've learned so far. There are a lot of different. contaminants that can appear in cannabis and cannabis products such as pesticides. Residual Solvents Metals micro-toxins molds bacteria medals. mullets tend to appear most frequently in cannabis flower however metals do sometimes show up in extracts due to leaching from incompatible packaging bacteria to new appear most frequently in cannabis infused is products pesticides solvents and micro-toxins or more common canopus extracts typically because the process of making a cannabis concentrate uh actually concentrates. These CONTAMI- contamination is not always direct. Sometimes contamination can come from contaminated soil will water drift from nearby farms or overhead spraying leaching for manufacturing equipment or leaching thrown the packaging metal products being held contaminants. Toxic additives had been responsible for fatalities associated with cannabis consumption users with compromised immune systems the most at risk. By now we seem to be getting a pretty good picture about the safety profile of cannabis. But we're not quite done yet. There's one more issue that we haven't discussed yet that's adolescent cannabis use. What unique risks might young cannabis users face find? Find Out in the third and final part of the series where we finish our curious quest to discover his cannabis safe. Thanks take it easy special. Thanks to our guests that were so gracious and spending time with me for interviews that helped construct not just this episode but other episodes throughout throughout the season to check out the citations for this episode. And there are plenty you can check out the show notes by visiting. CAC PODCAST DOT COM to learn more more about cannabis. You can check out the curious about this book available now on Amazon Dot Com and other online book retailers. You like what we're doing here and support the show at least considers hoarding us by liking sharing episode. With your friends and family can also choose to support us on patron at Patriot. Dot Com slash natural learning enterprises get access to the full link guest interviews behind the scenes content and a lot more can also connect with curious about cannabis on social media on Instagram facebook. Twitter and Youtube Hi relieved.
306: Dangers of Mold Exposure & How to Protect Yourself From Mold Toxicity With Ann Shippy MD
"Bobby podcast. This episode is sponsored by four Sigmatic. They are the reason that I am on shrooms. uh-huh the legal kind every single day. They make a wide variety of superfood mushroom infused products everything from coffee and teas to mushroom elixirs elixirs. And even an amazing chocolate. That is infused with. I believe ten types of mushrooms. I have a shelf. My pantry dedicated just to four sigmatic products. And I pretty much keep all of their products on pant some current favorites from our house. My kids love the ratio beauce cocoa and I love that it helps them sleep. I also personally really enjoy their ten mushroom blend which contains all of my favorites like Chagas Cordis apps ratio and even Mashima like an add this to to coffee coffee tea or just movies to get my daily dose of troops as a listener of this. podcast you can save fifteen percent on those and all four sigmatic products by going to forcing matic dot com or it slash wellness Mama and using the code wellness Mama. All one word and all lower case so again that's F. O. U. R. S. G. M. A. T. ICY dot com forward slash wellness. Mama I am so excited to finally be able to share a top secret project. Hit been working on for literally years. Because this episode is proudly sponsored by wellness a new company I co-founded to create safe natural and obsessively tested products for families. I'm sure you've heard that most of what you put on your body gets absorbed through your skin and enters into to your body. We turn this idea on. Its head creating products. That aren't just safe to put on your hair or on your skin or in your mouth but there are actually beneficial because they contain things that your body needs in a way that can get through the skin. We started with the toughest I creating the first of its kind natural toothpaste. That is free of fluoride and glycerine and that contains AIDS ingredients like green tea. NEEM hydroxy appetite to support the mouth. Our hair care. We have shampoo and conditioner for curly and straight hair and it's free of harmful ingredients but but also contains things like lavender Nedal to support healthy. That care I would love for you to be among the first to try it and you can check it out now by going to well S. dot com so that's wellness with an e. on the end W. E. L. L. E. S. SP DOT com. Hello and welcome to the Wellness Mama. podcast I'm Katie from almost DOT com. And I'm really excited to talk to today's guest because I really respect her work. I'm here with doctor and chippy. Who is a powerhouse on a very powerful mission to help people across the world live their healthiest lives? Using cutting edge science really specific the big research and genetic information to treat the root causes of disease she specializes in environmental texts toxicity preconception and reproductive health and mold exposure exposure and. She's designed life altering treatments and protocols for her patients using EPA genetic information which is the study of DNA expression and the bodies incredible ability to express or repress helpful or detrimental genes as well as prevent he'll and even reverse certain illnesses. She's a fascinating background. She was an IBM engineer for a decade decade and then her challenging experience traditional medicine motivated her to search for her own health answers. She left engineering to attend the University of Texas Medical School in his now board. Certified in internal medicine and a certified functional medicine physician with a practice in Austin Texas. If you live there I cannot recommend her highly enough. Gosh she's the author of two books in his currently working on her third. And I know that you're GonNa love this episode we go really deep on mold exposure micro-toxins and what you need to know to make sure that you don't have any underlying problems in your home that you're not aware of doctorship you welcome. Thanks for being here so excited to be here. I am so excited to chat with you. Because as you are an expert on many many things but I know that you both have personal experience and expertise in an area. I get a lot of questions about and I want to jump into today. which is mold mycotoxin mycotoxin exposure? And I know that you have a story a personal story and I would love to start there because I think this is a growing awareness about this and people are realizing they might have a problem. But but there's also probably a lot of us who don't even realize we have a problem but we might so. Can you start with a personal story. Yes I was Already practicing sync functional medicine. You know where you're where I'm looking for the root cause of illness and I had gone to a conference on micro-toxins about a year before but I didn't know what was happening to me so I was getting sicker and sicker. I had gotten to the point where I would draw a glass. If it was full of water is a a bright arm was so weak. I couldn't even grasp it fully. My hair was falling out all over the bathroom. I had so much pain in my body that I didn't want my kids to hug me hurt so badly and I I couldn't wear my heels anymore because my right foot hurt so much and and I was really getting scared I I was starting to wonder if I was going to be able to take care of my patients kids myself and and I had sought out experts. I've been to a neurologist. Immunologist Hands Specialists Internists. Ed reached out to my friends in the actual medicine community and was really getting stumped and then one day when a my patience was that I was treating for environmental toxicity issues during great but she just looked across the table at me and I thought I had it all kinda covered. But she's like doctorship he. I think you're really sick. I think I I know my intuition is telling me it's something that I had gone. Through which is toxic mold exposure to a specific mold called to him and she left me so much shave as insisting on coming to my house at the end of the day to go walk through and see if she got her mold symptoms and so sure enough that day she came to my a house walk through it and within in five to ten minutes she was really not feeling well and had to leave. And the this is what happens to me concerto medium. You should take very few of your belongings and leave and not ever spend another night here and I was so scared that I did exactly what she suggested justed. I went and took my kids and started staying at my parents house and really amped up my detoxification support and started to feel better and finally any Like a month later after doing several of the wrong kinds of mold tested the right one in the right place in the house and found that she you tell me well. That's amazing especially because I know like you as a functional medicine naturally like you already know all the stuff to do and I'm sure you were living very clean lifestyles also the fact that you're still sick. That's really like like points to some other kind of issue. Are there kind of walk us through. What some of the comments are when it comes to motor and I know that there's probably all the arranged but like both the ones you experienced other people might experience cats so a lot of times people will just feel like they're more tired? They don't have the energy to do the things that they need need to do. Or their brain will fill a little foggy or they'll be getting skin rashes or little bit digestive upset and then on the more severe side when we go looking for the root causes zip illnesses it can be things like what's triggering your autoimmune disorder. What caused cancer? What triggered the diabetes? So it often is the root caused illness but the early symptoms are just maybe feeling a little bit more tired or here might be falling out more readily as digestive zip symptoms headaches or even more like the allergy symptoms so I had to go through mold again a few years later and actually it was a brand new home that I I was living in. I just started developing worsening allergies and asthma. Gotch and I know that those are relatively common now as well so you mentioned. It took several rounds of testing before you were able to actually locate it and I have heard this experience from others as well who even a neighbor of ours got really sick. They did multiple tests and then finally were able to tight like find and identify the mold and then it was a long process to remediate What kind of testing did you finally worked? Are there different kinds of tests for different things. That's such a great question and I think it's a little overwhelming for for people to be listening and taking notes so we do have a mauled handout. That we can have you put in your. Yeah no it's. It's just an chippy. MD DOT com slash mold so A lot at even inspectors that are out there are still not up upon the latest technology so a negative mall test means nothing the a Lotta. The inspectors are doing air testing and a lot of these. He's really toxic. Mold don't put enough mold spores into the air. They're big heavy and they just kinda dropped down to where they're close to where they're growing. So Ah it misses him so if you do an air sampling Dustin. It's positive for any of the the more toxic molds really pay attention to that so like ecstatic bosterous and she told me him Things like Whoa Alenia Okra toxin penicillin if those show up. Pay Attention But what I really like to do or samples on the dust so getting as much dust from the building. Whether it's an officer home or a school get as much dust and then do the DNA testing rather than just doing the visual inspections or the culture said the Sometimes they're called an army Task but the army is just really a calculation of what DNA was there of the mold and then find somebody. That's really good. It being the house. Detectives I think about myself as being the good body. Detective like figuring out. What's going on find somebody? Who's who takes mold seriously that they ed protect themselves with the Respirator and the Clothing that will protect them so they really know that mold can be a problem and then have them. You know pull out the the refrigerator and sometimes even have to go into the wall. Cavities and with a Camera to look to see what's going on. They climb up in the attic and they look to see if things are sealed properly to not leave any stone unturned. Because because you don't want to have had the wrong result and have a hidden problem. which is what often happens? The inspectors come in and say oh no everything everything looks good and then you've really miss the big problem to explain a little bit more on why to test the dust because I know from research but you know does can be a source of the home of many things but why are test the dust versus test the home itself because that gives you the best collection so what I like to do is to take the dust and sense. Send it for both looking for the mold. DNA and then also for the toxins so were so still so early the in the detection technology for the mold. So we want to use the most advance ways so that we don't miss it so we can test for about four families of the micro-toxins echo toxins in the dust and then about thirty six of the different mold DNA and they're you know hundreds to thousands of different types of mold old and many many more of the chemicals that the mold is making so if we can at least get an idea of. What's there the tip of the iceberg mark? But it can then when we find those things than we can can. Noel may be. We really do need to open up walls and and that kind of thing where where it's hidden rather than to saying okay. Everything's Okay not outside so for example when I was going through my mold thing that thing that had happened is the flashing on the chimney he had failed and so there was a little bit of moisture running down the wall between my son's room and my bedroom and then the ceiling of a Living Room but it wasn't enough moisture to to show through the paint but it was enough to really grow a lot of Malt. Wow No that's that's relatively common right that mold can be in the walls or in a place you may not see but still causing symptoms very much in house exactly so a lot of times. It'll be maybe a shower. Pianists failed and it's enough to be growing mauled in any of the drywall around the shower but not enough that the wallace getting wet or even behind toilets. Refrigerators dishwashers and then. Sometimes it's even Behind the Washer and Dryer got to and I I know. There's some controversies around the idea of mold remediation and how it needs to be done correctly and and I've even seen a couple sources argue that once you found mold it's really never possible possible to completely remediate it. I'm curious the approach you took and if you feel it is possible and what the best process is to remediate. If someone does find old in their home she has so I think it is depending on. What type of mold is there? I rarely had people that. Have the type of mold that made me so sick. Be Able to remediate that. She told Tomey 'em because it has little hooks into grows into things and it's so hard to remove it all and we get so sensitive to that particular type of but a lot of the other types of mauled. It really you can remediate if you get somebody really good doing the actual remediation. It's so important to set up containment men one of the mistakes. I think that some people make as that they let the when they're doing the deconstruction the mold spores really an the talks. Oxen spread all over the the building so using plastic walls and really good filtration devices to make sure that her containing all of the toxins that are being released as freely really helpful to making it. More likely that you're going to be able to do the the adequate cleaning so that the people can get better and some of it depends on how the building's construction constructed so basements can be really tricky. Tricky buildings that are built into the sides of hills are it can be hard to control the moisture enough in the future not to keep it from growing back so kind of picking and choosing whether it's better to move on move forward or to invent make the investments into the building to to try to make it better and also depends on how sick the person is like I was so sick I just had it to move and not take much with me to get it to be able to get better if you're if you're not to that point where you're really in survival survival mode it's probably worth it to to try to remediate So it's really really situational and it can depend on how good of a team you have. I've I've seen a big disparity and the ability to remediate remediate depending on how much the people get it. That are doing the work work on what they're dealing with if they're not thinking about this as being something super toxic and mirror not protecting themselves. Then that's a real warning sign that they don't understand what they need to do to help to get you about her. That makes sense. Is there good. Like general practices for like We bought a house a couple couple years ago in an area. That's prone to mold in hindsight wished to had tested for mold ahead of time. Is there any kind of home tests that people can buy and test. If they're thinking about about moving we're GONNA move into a new home. Yes and that's On the handout that we put out so There's a website called black mold. SKIN DOT COM. I think it is no. I'm forgetting exactly what it is but is on the website that you can order the kids yourself or a company called real time lab They do the testing in humans as well as doing the testing and the environment and you can order kits from them and do both the DNA part of it as well as the Mike. Oh Park toxin part of it. So yeah if you're buying a home or even potentially leasing something for period of time. I really really recommend testing before. Are you move all your belongings in there and potentially contaminate yourself and your belongings if you're in some of these areas like urine Florida Ray. I am yeah so definitely like mall central every are yes so some of these places that have had all these hurricanes. It really is difficult to find the safe place to live like a so. Many of my patients have come from Houston and they thought that they had you know that their home was okay because they didn't have obvious water. Damage meant but because of the blowing driving winds if there's any issue with the building envelope not being sealed for almost perfectly. Ah that the the backside of the drywall ended up with big fake problems and and even the air conditioning systems can be so compromised with those those high winds and driving rains. Yeah absolutely I think. There's also some misconceptions when it comes to mold of like you know if there's mold the house it should smell must eerie. You can kind of tell smelling it is that can you talk about mold. Person musty smell. Do they go together. Or is that misconception. Oh that's perfect question question because I had so many people that say oh I can't smell it so it must not be there. That's the end. EOC's that some molds make at so that's a little different the type of chemical than the micro-toxins that are also produced and both can be dangerous. But definitely if you smell Miss Eunice. You know it's something needs to be done or avoid it but a lot of the micro-toxins you can't smell so you don't even know it's there so so you just the only way to know for sure is to either test you or test the environment. Okay so mold doesn't always necessarily go along with a musty smell. What about mildew because I feel like those words get used interchangeably as do the same thing as old or different and if it's different is it dangerous? It's like Malta's than overall Oh category of organisms and then mildew is kind of a slang term but a lot of times the things that we thinker the harmless mildew kind of thing really aren't and if somebody says to you. Oh that's not a problem. It just looks like mildew run because you can't can't tell what a mold type of mold something is by looking at it it really has to be looked at under a microscope. kilter D- or tested I the DNA because mall changes colors at changes appearance depending on what kind of surface screwing on and what other kinds of moulder presents present. So they you you know one like a mold growing on once since might be white and black on another so and pink on another so you really have to test it to know for sure. Gotcha okay. That's good to know. Oh and you mentioned a few of them are there areas of the homeware. Mold is more likely laundry room like anywhere where could leaking through the roof. But if someone's having kind of unexplained symptoms how we're today even start looking. I know you have a resource. That you've mentioned we'll make sure that's in the show notes that Hamid Gutter listening definitely check that out too. Yeah you know. It's funny just even walking into into hotel rooms now like if I if I walk in and it's a little musty I'm GonNa go and change right away but just looking even at air conditioning events if you've got something that looks like dust or dirt on the A C. That's highly suspicious that that's mold if you go kind of look in your pet. Three him in any the cocking is broken. Or there's any discoloration in the in the drywall. If you've got wallpaper in a in a bathroom that's highly likely that there's GonNa be some some old behind there And then you can even just walk around the outside of your house if there's any place that the the landscaping comes up above where they foundation is that it. That's another highly likely source of entry and then anything anything that you see what paint peeling or anything around doorways entry doorways. A lot of times like you'll see a little bit where the the The caulking isn't quite right so you might be surprised if you just walk around and look in your house or anything is disrupted and in in windows to like if you have window sills. That are buckling her not just pristine. I would be very suspicious. That there's an issue with the with the windows. Good to know what about the word Murdoch's because that's also used interchangeably with mold. Sometimes some curious if you could define what that is and if it differs from from older what to know about micro-toxins yes Omega toxins are just the little chemicals that the mold is making that are toxin toxic for for us or our our animals. You know every type of organism is making byproducts and their physiological process of surviving. And so it's just things that they make as part of their survival and what's really interesting is people who study these kinds of things. It's kind of how they were against each other so usually there's not just just one type of mold growing when there's moisture it's a whole community kind of microbiome of the that surface and they use it to try to ward ward off the other molds from taking them over and unfortunately we get caught in the crossfire. Gotcha okay that makes sense And I feel like now like a pretty good understanding of what foreign how to know. If you might have any of these issues going on your home I love to switch gears and really talk about what to do for your health if you do find it because like I said I know this is an issue. It's a huge where I live And honestly some of the symptoms that you mentioned sound like the response to like I mean he does. He's or Had several guests on to talk about breast implant illness and how the bodies like mounting in the Munich response so I'm curious to understand on a physiological level like what is is happening in the body when we have mold exposure. Oh that's a great question so the micro-toxins can do so many different things in our bodies they can directly damage Tana they can influence our DNA behaves they can damage the The so members on the Mitochondria and then they can really injure or liver and Kidney And then also affect your immune system they suppress immune system to be able to keep our own microbiome in check doc and to fight off infection and even affect how well our bodies keep cancer at bay since we all have abnormal cells is that were producing all the time so depending on the particular mycotoxin it can do so many different negative things my opinion now. Now that I've seen more and more of this mycotoxin illnesses that the ideal thing would be that it be part of a screening that we do on a regular basis because we can and check the micro-toxins in our our urine three two different companies realtime lab in Great Plains so if we have an uptick in the amount of Mycotoxin then we go look for the source as that in our car is at her home is in our office or school or is it in the food that we're eating so that we can make those adjustments before we get sick. I really do think it's one of the big biggest health crisis that we're facing today so for me. The prevention is ideal but given that A lot of times we don't and have the opportunity or the idea that we even need to be looking for these things until we're sick or having some type of symptoms and a lot of times. The mycotoxin Texan test isn't covered by insurance. Then we've got to take the actions to how to help to get it out of our body. One of the things that I love is that we can help our detoxification pathways work much better. Just by eating a different diet eating a lot of Christopher's vegetables Broccoli Cauliflower Cabbage Kale and then the the onions and garlic and spices that also support our lever and detoxification and then there are adventures supplements that we can take that also augment how well our bodies detoxify NEC the Soma Glutathione and then they're a bunch of finders like Klay and terkel and modified citrus. Isn't it really helped. pull the all the toxins out and based on what I'm seeing in my patients and so the patients that are just super motivated to to Do Prevention as well as the ones that are sick as that we've really all need to be focusing on this is because were being exposed to really bombarded with toxins everyday in our cleaning materials in our food. Preparation our mattresses mattresses that. We need to be pro proactive in preventing it. So you mentioned that even certain foods can be a source of mycotoxin ECHO toxins. What are some foods to watch for they are and how do we know? We're getting foods that are safe. That's a very good crushing has. It's really not regulated. Very well in our country other countries are actually better at this than we are but often grains have high levels of micro-toxins in them so we barley rice belt and especially corn. Like I I won't even touch corn now because it's pretty much all all moldy And then things like coffee. The Nice thing about that is that there are companies like bulletproof that screen for it and and make sure that we're not getting it in our her coffee and then also also nut so things like peanuts say. I love peanuts but I will wear lever letham because it's very difficult to grow them without having some aflatoxin growing on them and then pistachios you can see it so obviously and then the other nuts that I that I eat. I make sure that I keep it in the refrigerator or freezer to reduce the amount of growth. That's that's going to happen. And then if there's an obvious problem of avoid at late sometimes cashiers will have that dark area in them so those are the big ones to either watch out for void obviously the fermented things like Wine and Kombucha and Kavita advisor things. It's a little bit unpredictable but can definitely have some mycotoxin them good to know And I think like the detox stuff you mentioned. I'd love to go a little deeper on that because I know you work with people on this and it's also helpful for other things besides just more. Is that correct. Like people can have other issues as well that this is helpful for it is and a lot of times. Mold is just the tipping point. People have had UNISOM pesticides that glyphosate at the sites and that kind of thing from their food and Some heavy metals from eating Fisher tuna or having amalgam fillings. All of the PAWSOX. And that kind of thing for more food packaging so those. Things just gradually accumulating in their body and then they get an exposure of mold and that tips over so a lot of these supplements and the food's really help us to eliminate all a lot of those things from her body. So especially my favorite thing and I I don't leave home without it is like Zome Aug. by own so that's a form of Glutathione that gets absorbed in the right form rather than digested and actually gets is into the cells where we need them to to process the toxins and then get them out of her body and then things like a Mida conrail support so that might career at the Little Organiz inside the cell that helped to produce the energy to do all the work in our body so a lot of times just assisting those mccown Andrea with the vitamins and magnesium and Co Q.. Ten life poetic acid and things that helped to repair our cell membranes. Like Hospital Choline. 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That is free of fluoride and glycerine and that contains ingredients green tea name. Hydroxy appetite to support port the mouth. Our hair care shampoo and conditioner for curly and straight hair and it's free of harmful ingredients but also contains things like lavender and Nedal to support court. Elsie thick hair. I would love for you to be among the first to try it and you can check it out now by going to wellness dot com. So that's wellness with an e. at the end W. E. L. L. E. S. S. E. DOT COM. So are there other any other ways that people can not keep the bodies detox mechanisms in really shape and and also along the same line as that. What do we need to know about detoxification? Because I feel like there are so many like cleanses and detox says and all these things out there that make all these promises My thought has always been the body has built in mechanisms. We just need to support with the body naturally does but what do people need to know in general all about kind of the natural detoxification mechanisms of the body so some of us have genetic predispositions where we just don't detoxify great. We're the ones that are the canaries that are are GonNa let the illness is going to show up at NAS. I so but the thing. That's so exciting. Is that there there. Are things now available to really help us to level the playing field and and help our bodies to keep up very very naturally so one of the things that concerns concerns me about a lot of the information. That's out there on detoxing is that they make it sound like it's normal to have detox symptoms like if you're detoxing saying you're gonNA feel bad but that's not good. That's a sign that you're not detoxifying in the right order so I think about detoxification as has being a series of dams and if you open up one damn too much you're gonNA flood the the dams below so you really have to be opening up the dam's altogether in the right order so that they don't have the detox in DM so it's it's really not more is better or having symptoms as a as a sign that you're doing something good. It's actually a sign that you might be hurting yourself so if you you WANNA be kind of careful in how you detoxify because you don't want to be taking toxin at the bodies work to sequester in like in fat cells and free it up and then have it move around to the brain cells rate so I I really believe in doing things very gently and and kind of methodically so that you're collaborating collaborating with these different systems. In the body to all you know essentially get it out safely. That's really know like to clarify on that. Because I've heard people say you. It's just a reaction or like it's because the detoxing and so you're saying that's that's not something that needs to happen and in fact actually be good for that to happen right so it for example with patients if they start to have symptoms. I WanNa know right away because that means that we might need to work more on you know the gut microbiome because the the the microbiome and the gut really is important to be healthy for for getting the toxins out or we might need to do. Do things like Add in a A detox bath so that their skin can help them were or we might need to go back and work more on a a process called methylation a little bit more so we it. It's If they do start having any symptoms than we know okay. There are other things that we need to go. Look at. Maybe we need to really work on their gablers. Were or So that they're making an a file than to carry out through the toxins out through their gut. So it's such an intricate system and so many things to look at with that if you're if you're deciding to do some type of detox than you don't feel wii on it then you really need to step back and and think about how else to help your support. Your body's some were in that process. Are there common. Starkly says or like universal things that are typically good for everyone because I default to the body's natural mechanisms so I always start with things like just making sure well hydrated hydrated and then I'm eating enough Greens and fiber and things like I love using the Sauna. I'm curious those are beneficial for detox. Are there good general starting points. I loved that because we are so aligned. Yes you've got to get the Diet nailed and I your your body's gotTa have the vital nutrients to run the biochemistry. Physiology physiology up detoxification. So that's foundational number one thing and then I do love the Saunas but I really you want people to go slow with that as well like thinking. Okay I signed up for this infrared sonnen. I've got thirty minutes. I'M GONNA get every second of it out if really gotTA listen to your body and if you're if you get in the sauna and you have this kind of impulse to get out in five minutes you're done and then so then just gradually actually build up to wear your body's sweating and feeling good for the entire time that that you're in there and every once in a while you might have set back to where you've you've been doing a thirty minute Sauna Anna and feeling good and then all the sudden you have one. We're in ten minutes. You're like oh my body's really telling me to get out go ahead and get out because that means that's all your body can do for the day and then exactly the hydration is so important you need your kidneys being adequately flushed. I every day so that they can do their job optimally and especially if you add in something like saunas making sure that you have plenty of minerals to sustain your into vascular volume but then these minerals are so important for the detoxification enzymes to work optimally so making ensure that you're getting plenty of minerals either through a good mineral supplement or If you've got feared that probably grown in the farmers market where there's we're still minerals in the soil that get into the food is super helpful. Oh and then one of the most important things is. You've got to be going to the bathroom room. You have to be having bowel movements at least once a day two or three times a day to can because so many of the toxins also go out through the gut that makes perfect sense like disappointing like we talked about. All those natural detoxification mechanisms that we're born with urinating and going to bathroom like you said and I love sweating as well to try to make sure I'm sweating in some way every day whether it's exercise or sauna or both that's really important definitely helps my skin feel better way to that too and it really does make a huge huge difference when when I see patients especially honestly when their bodies are super broken down. They'll be like well. I don't even have the energy to exercise but when we can get them to the point where they can do the Saunas and do the an exercise whether sweating it's amazing at keeping some buffer in Deir barrels so that third not filling up so I love that. So you're really helping people to know these foundational things and hopefully prevent them from even getting sick. What about I'm just curious to give take on different forms of fasting fasting and how they can support detoxification and if they should be user should not be used in a detox situation because personally I love some days just not eating until later in the day? I feel better to doing that. And then occasionally I'll do like a longer water fast and I feel like it just really helps my mental clarity. But I'm curious. Does that have a place in. When someone's dealing with an acute issue like like this or should it be avoided until they kind of address the problem? I do think that there's a place for it with some people if they feel up to it. Definitely the intermittent fasting It doesn't have to be the long long hours but like fourteen hours where they're not having any nutrient France. Oh like if they started eating at seven in the morning and then finish around five some people do feel better if they skip the morning but for most people. It's better if they do something for breakfast and then finished eating around five and then don't eat or drink anything other than maybe some water. Some herbal tea until the next morning can be very very helpful at stimulating. The body to start to dump some of the cells that are working marginally as well as Just is kind of giving the digestion a break and then I I not a fan of the water fasting but I do think that the fasting mimicking checking So there's a product called pro lawn and there's a lot of data around not reducing your calories completely but minimizing them. I'm so that you get the benefits of what a water fast with do Without the detrimental parts of it is trustful to not have any calories at all and then you can lose bone and muscle and find it hard to replace that. So having a very small number of calories where you're still getting some of those nutrients to Kinda stabilize blood sugar and run the basic mechanisms of the day. It ends up being like five hundred to eight hundred calories. He's but just for five days at a time is amazing for free setting the immune system helping to detoxify and really dump those cells. That are they're kind of dragging down the rest of your body so that then you get a new product. Increased production at stem cells going to making new tissues. News can be dramatically helpful. If you do that once a month I love that and I have. I've done water fasting. I definitely agree with your point on that that it can be really stressful on the body and I have also done both pro on kind of like a homemade version of prolonged. That was just a lot of vegetables and about those ratios. I'm sure you've also read the work of after Vaulter Longo and his burn the mazing Autry put in the show. It's a great book to read. But that's a great point that people can do fasting mimicking diet now and there's so much research to support that without the stress of a full water fast fast. So that's why it's it's so exciting because some of their data coming out is showing that it's As good as some types of chemotherapy Komo therapy for some cancer. I'm not advocating for that. As you know as people's position but a lot of the drug companies doing chemotherapy or asking them to do collaborate at studies where they're combining fasting mimicking with the chemotherapy. And they're even saying Moore dramatic effects with helping thing to treat cancer so just make sense to. It's probably one of the best things so that we can do to prevent. Cancer is to have those five days once a month and I like like you look. Can I do to figure out how to do this. Because I don't love the Pat the the quality that they're using the prolong although they've just just got a new kit. That's come out. That's an improvement in flavor but passage is getting lots of vegetables and in a little bit of protein for the for those five days. I think is a good alternative for sure and yet to echo what you said. I've seen some of that. Initial data coming out about cancer rates and also in in conjunction with conventional cancer treatment. And just much less people are getting sick and how much quicker they're recovering think Things like this. I'm so excited when there's that kind of research that can mark with conventional medicine if that's what someone wants to do and also can show data that it's going to help avoid certain types of cancers. I think we're in a really exciting time for that kind of research and to circle back to the mold and the detox stuff real quick. I know a lot of people listening. I'm going to get some questions. Related to kids the elderly. What about if I'm pregnant or nursing so I'd love to talk a little bit in detail about out? What if someone finds mold in their home and they also have children because it's hard to give kids a lot of supplements or to have kids in a sauna for time How can someone address that? If they've got kids also been exposed. I yeah so I'm I'm an internist and I take care of adults but then of course I have my patients that want me to see their kids so I do have some experience with with kids especially in that have been in moldy environments and affected so kids are so much more susceptible you know they have a heart higher higher respiratory rates. So they're gonNa you know their dose that they get into through their lungs and then they have bought a smaller body mass so a lot of times. Kids are the canaries rate and get their systems are in some ways are so much more robust but then they're also more fragile on the same way so I do end up having induced a. We have a detox bath. That kids Kinda like 'cause it's at Scott It's like doing dirt. They get to get in the dirt and Kinda play So I think using their skin is also really helpful and and then we don't sometimes I will use the life is Emma Glutathione in very small doses. But we also have a topical colluded. That seems to work pretty well for them. And then getting adding onto eat the good healthy foods you know lots of a lot of times you can change their taste buds very quickly and and find lots of vegetables that the leapt eat or or even top hide it in soups and Spaghetti sauces and all that kind of thing can make a really really big difference and then especially if a child is very sick. I'd like the data like I want to know what they're neutral nutrients data says I wanNA know what their gene pathways are. That might it'd caused them to be most compromised than that. We can do the work arounds by really looking at their methylation and that kind of thing but just starting out with the bath the the Little Bit of the Topical Glutathione and then Some really good based nutrients to support their body really good probiotic I've really good multivitamin making sure they have adequate amounts of magnesium that. They're going to the bathroom or the day that they're cleaning drinking clean water and then get them out at the mall figure out a way while the problem is being fixed and not be in that environment any more of its going and staying with friends or family. We've had a lot of problems with the school systems here for in central Texas getting moldy whether it's the air conditioning systems being turned down over the summer and and getting moldy they were Issues with leaks or flooding. And sometimes I've had to have kids changed schools. Wow yeah that's good to know that he to hear that that's a problem problem because that's means it's affecting all of those kids What about pregnancy and nursing? Because I know that's probably one of the most common questions across the board and relation to every topic I've written about it. What what about if you're pregnant or nursing and I know obviously those are times you do have to be really careful about deduct? Whoa what if some mold in there in that phase? That's really really challenging. I mean I liked to help. People get their bodies ready to be robust during pregnancy and to get the toxins out. So they're not passing them through the Placenta or through the breast breast-milk. You cannot Detox Fai when you're you do additional detox while you're pregnant or nursing because the more you free up in your body the more you're going to pass acid on to the to the to the child so the best thing that you can do that is just not exposed. It's hard to have these conversations Christians when it's not a one on one like look the person and I and see because I don't want to create a lot of fear but these micro-toxins are. There're there're Terada Japan's they can cause birth defects. They can cause cancer. And you WANNA be protecting your children's so the best thing you could do is if you're already pregnant or nursing minimize your exposure is like. I don't think that nursing women should eat corn or peanuts because we know that most of those have some level of micro-toxins in Do your best with white. You're eating the coffee that if you are drinking coffee coffee while you're nursing than you know Make sure that it's that it doesn't have the Mycotoxin at you're probably not if you're pregnant. And then just they keep eating. You know for yourself. Keep eating the most healthy foods that you can so that your body is Eliminating a number. Don't do any active form of detoxification with with the detox supplements got it. I know that you have a lot more resources for this. Both our website and in the piece that you mentioned I'll make sure that we have links to both of those in the show notes. A couple of questions. I love to ask a little bit unrelated but toward the end of interviews. If there there is a book or number of books that have really impacted your life if so what are they and why I bought that question so As a child I think one of the most impactful books was actually the serious series by Madeleine Lingo but the when when my most favorite book of hers was a Wrinkle in Tyne fine I remember reading that around fourth grader. Fifth Grade and just made me realize how much I've loved science like I that it. It just peaked. My interest in really figuring out out things worked and made me very curious and then as an adult one of the most inspiring books was actually an autobiography Called Tales of wonder by Heston's math. He's he's one of the first people who really started exploring different world religions and this book so inspired me because he was so curious yes and about how what connects us all but also what makes us different and really celebrating our differences. And you know I think that's one of the biggest things facing us today is that we're all on this planet together and we need to be Solving some of these problems together rather than being divided and and I think he was one of the first people to really start doing not such a positive way. I just I'd and lift his his life with such Grayson and care. I think anybody who reads it would disrepair be inspired about what we can do together. I love that. That's a new recommendation as well. Make sure it's linked in the show notes I am such a huge fan of your work. I and all the people that you help if someone wants to work with you or find out more about your work where can they find you. We are doing a lot on facebook and instagram. To get skews sucessful information out every day. So it's just an chippy. MD and then the website were putting out blogs and useful information on. And I'm trying to get myself to get more in the mode of making some videos too. Not just the written word but we'll have a lot more videos news coming as well for for people on the website and should be. MD DOT COM awesome. Thank you so much for your time for sharing your work around this like I said I'm a huge fan of your work and and so excited to get to chat with you today. Yes it's great to get to catch up with you. Thanks for having me and thanks as always to all of you for listening and sharing one of your most valuable resources forces your time with both of us. Were so grateful that you did. And I hope that you will join me again on the next episode of the Wellness Mama podcast. If you're enjoying these interviews I would you please take two minutes to leave a rating or review on itunes for me. Doing this helps more people to find the podcast which means even more moms and families can benefit from the information. I really appreciate your time and thanks as always for listening.
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But the subtitle is living is nature intended, a customized nutritional approach for optimal health, energy and vitality and the whole book is kind of around. This idea of the fact that a lot of diet trends offer, a one-size-fits-all approach, and they're not really designed for our unique bodies, and and health histories, but then it kinda takes the next level and kind of ties it into almost like this wild waves eating, which I'll let my guest who is you've probably guessed wrote the book explain, and my guess is Teri rain Terry is nutritional counselor. She's got a bachelor of science from the university of Florida, and she practices everything. From herb, Allah, g to cranial sacred therapy to nutrition counseling, and she works with with a lot of folks over in Washington DC, actually, she's an internal counselor to Olympic athletes all the way. Way to to ballerinas and swimmers so later on today show, I actually do want to delve with -tarian to some of the ways that she maximizes athletic exercise performance at some of the folks that she works with or I want to start is this whole idea of a wild -tarian diet that that name doesn't quite slip off the tongue. Terry. Well, you know, I wanted to go wild with a new way of thinking about what foods are doing to our body. So the wild -tarian diet was born from actually a patient zero as I call him at n stage cancer and had this rare form of cancer by the name of amyloidosis and amyloidosis is of based on truncated protein structures in we know about the amyloid that people are talking about the beta amyloid, the brain. But we re about how amyloid can really affect our entire body in this case is name is Glenys public about his work with me. Those amyloid had really a created in stage cancer scenario for him. And so I try to figure out started figuring out what the heck are amyloid. It's a rare to rare from cancer in when we figured out that these amyloid were coming from the food supply of chicken, poor beef and. Turkey, and if you know with cancer a lot of people are told after chemo, go high protein, and so with him Glenn case goes to the opinion things that occur during chemo. Yes. Exactly. Exactly. And so because of that they were saying protein load afterwards and his protein loading was actually a creating more abberant cells and two rounds of chemo had sent him into congestive heart and kidney failure Glenn was very ill. And had been given his last rites when he came to see me, and we found that our food supply believe it or not contain amyloid. And so through my research I worked with genetics researcher. She was on my staff for several years, we've been hurting out doing a lot of clinical findings of in also just making bridges between academia, and my the clinical outcomes that I see my practice. So we're constantly being iterative in how we look at the. The body in health and disease, and when we figured out that wild game in the form of bison versus beef Cornish Han versus chicken of wild salmon versus farm raised on so on and so forth. And we we took those away and we gave him took away the pork beef chicken and Turkey and started him down. This wild -tarian diet protocol in initially his kidneys were so really overwhelmed that he was a plant base while -tarian, and this is what I love about the wild Tyrian diet. It's diet for everyone and diet that specifically suited for the individual in equal opportunity. While deterrence, you can be plant based you can be as you can be lamps. You can be combo platter based in it's really based on your genetic blueprint in your current state of health. I don't understand exactly why it is that say like wild Turkey one around. My backyard would have a low would have a lower number of amyloid proteins in it. And then say like a farmer chicken is that the idea. Yeah. That's a really good question. So what we found in through the research out of Cambridge and Japan is that the crowding conditions that we we impart on these animals create. These amyloid within their tissue in amyloid truncated structures that are in digestible. And when our bodies can't digest them the bodies, the body doesn't know what to do with it. So it can it can accumulate in specific tissue or it can be it can be static. So real results almost auto immune type of issue when the Lord's build up. Exactly amyloid believe it or not are. Now, we now have linked to reweighting viruses because the amyloid speed the viral of population in our in our bodies and I call viruses puppet masters because most of us have been exposed to multiple viruses throughout our lifetime. In a lot of us have been vaccinated against them. But what we found was that for example, especially in the case of hushing motos where that's a not immune thyroid condition that Epstein Barr is responsible for over eighty percent of Hashi motos in FCA borrow. So the mono virus is puppet. Mastering the? Thyroid. It may not be mono, but it's puppet mastering the thyroid to to have this auto immune response in what we found is when we stopped feeding the body protein in the form of these domesticated animal products switched to to wild game in shellfish and seafood. We've had a lot of resolution of Hashimoto's. On the note. No, just just back up a second with this amyloidosis can you test for that? Because I know like protein area you can test for excess proteins in the urine. And and some of those can be Emily proteins both that beheld actually diagnose or determine whether or not your diet is is causing excess 'em Lloyd's. Good question. So there's multiple ways to test for will really protein in your urine. That's a big, you know, you're not digesting the protein, but light chains in the form of cancer test for amyloidosis. So you can you can test for those light chains a way to kind of know, I'm really into body talk. We say I've said that I speak multiple languages, including body. And the body has a lot of information that it gives us if we have trouble building protein a muscle rather because we're not raking down those amino acids, recombining them to Bill tissue than that could be a potential issue with protein absorption, if you burp after you're eating that means you're not you don't have sufficient headed chlorine acid to help support that protein digestion. So really, the the the back to your original question of why while -tarian it was Glenn my patient zero that we figured out when we moved him to a wild type diet his his light chains which was the marker for Joseph. Within three months where stabilized and then he was able to continue his chemo. And he's he's riding his bike to work almost seven years later when he was watching. So a light chain is a marker for we're how many of the concentration of amyloid in your blood. For the orb amyloidosis form of cancer. Okay. That'd be more accurate test though than than say like protein tests in the urine. Yes, that's specific to cancer. But that would be the most accurate way to test. Okay. Gotcha. Yeah. The the only time I've really come across like like dietary management of something like reduction of amyloid proteins. This is all related to Alzheimer's and dementia. Was I believe I was talking with Dominique de AST win a podcast, and he was discussing how Kita genyk diet can reduce some of the build up of the Emily beta proteins in neural tissue. And then I had come across one of the research study that got into polyphenyls and the ability of polyphenyls to be able to to to bind 'em Lloyd's. But what what your actually implementing is basically a reduction of non wild proteins exactly because I call food the often the omega and we can get everything else. Right. The suppleme-. Tation with news polyphenyls we can do used. I just events times, but truly if we are feeding the beast than we are, you know, it's a really it's a really upstream battle in amyloid, not only for amyloid sake, but amyloid feed virus viral loads in than the amyloid structures actually make biofilm in biofilm is so critical in line disease is critical in strap in Candida, the spy film, which I call it the Donut, you know, it's a little fat structure around these pathogens which make the antibiotic therapy, very difficult if not impossible to to break into this into this bug. So the amyloid are it is a cascading situation in the body not just specific to amyloidosis on chromosome. So in your book, and I had this port highlighted actually, read it on kindle, you describe the wild her diet as the consumption of generally wild caught wild fed and sustainable animal. Based proteins of not been industrial raise process, genetically modified hormonally bacteria early supplemented or in any way, divergent from their whole natural form, including wild game meats foul bison venison, elk goat, lamb pheasant quail while coefficient shellfish ancient organic non chemically altered or treated, grains, organic non Maya toxic leggings, nuts seeds and produce and organic grass-fed non hormonally treated dairy products, which is pretty straightforward. I think that's spells it out pretty well. But when you're when you're working with somebody, how do you determine whether you are going to say them, you know, just say, whatever fish quail, pheasant, lamb versus introduction of grains versus inclusion of leggings nuts seeds and produce. And of course, this this question is important because so many people, you know, now with, you know, the popularity of books like plant paradox and the emergence of the the popular carnivore diet, you know? Many people just say don't plan grades at all. I think that's a great question. And I have a clinical practice here in the DC area. I have natural that works with me. And so our whole approaches were all different Riveria bio individual in so using genetics as the foundation in understanding why those genes were tripped will really lead you to what type of wild -tarian? Are you what wild type are you trusting walk me through that walk me through the kind of genetic testing, you do sure. So the genetic testing typically we have two forms of genetic testing. We look at twenty three and me, and then we'll run it through our own internal algorithm. Developed a way to look at jeans because you can never look at anything 'isolation because the body is such a complex highway of organized systems that speak to each other. But what I do is. I put the jeans I will bucket them into what I call red orange yellow and green zones, and so I look at where are your big. Eh call him the sharks versus the minnows. Right. So if you're in an orange zone of let's say, you have a gene called the CBS. Gee, this has to do with sulfate pathway mechanism. And if you haven't ostlund metabolism, gene than it could be a sous oxygen receive ES, gene that actually is a sulfur processing mechanism, gene. Also, have you have the MTA Chaffar gene mutation in their tool eels to that one is the seasick seven seven t which actually has to do with bio salt production, which would make you less efficient producer of boss, which makes you less efficient in breaking down fat. So in that case, if you can't genetic polymorphism along with the comp gene polymorphism, which has to do with fat metabolism catecholamines also than further looking at the VR in the APO, gene. Those are all fat metabolism. Genetic polymorphisms you taking on Kito genyk diet would not be your best of. So the before many people do not do well with fats. For those reasons backing up to the soul for issue. So so would you say then that you know, because a lot of foods that are that are rich in sulfur are reportedly superfoods like garlic and cruciferous vegetables, like kale, and broccoli and cauliflower and even egg yolks, or are there people that should be based on that genetic snip that you were talking about a avoiding those forms of sulphur. Yes. And I think that's also an excellent question. Ben in what's happened is in the past. So we've we've had our genetics have been here for Melania, right? End these nutritional diseases that we're seeing of crows in all sorts of colitis in this mental health epidemic that we're having mental ill-health epidemic that we're having this gluten intolerance of namic that we're having why is that? Well, not that our genes is changed. It's the EPA genetics of the food supply. That is tripping our genes, right? And so there's a whole new science of nutrigenomics, which is half loot influences jeans. And so we know in either leave on. Pioneer in this work related to solver along with Dr Stephanie sent out of 'em IT of o chemists is that guess what our round up is really dilatoriness to our bodies ability to process are sulfur. And so those of us myself included with genetic polymorphism of the CBS, gene, the h four the Suwalki, gene because round up what it does is roundup is really dirty little thing. Not only is it an herbicides that is poisonous to our fish and so forth. What it does is it stops the body's ability to convert solver foods to its end game, which is salt, which is what we need as athletes, and even just your typical average human for collagen matrix structure for -tendance for gut health for mental health for home production. And so this life estate interrupts are her endgame with sulfur in. So it becomes this in. Media. Metabolite intermediary metabolite in our gut not being able to be processed. And so now this garlic in egg yolk in and of broccoli cabbage cauliflower, and I call it killer, kale, actually, kale also has some oxidant properties. It is actually leaking our guide at it is tripping those genes in so those of us with impaired sulfur McCallum a mechanism handling what can happen is. We can we're more likely to get Krones or ulcer colitis or have some anxiety some depression. We can also be more likely to have a arthritis. Seventy three percent of rheumatoid. Arthritis has been linked to impaired a sulfur processing. That's a big deal. I work are as one of my one of my things in our threats in general, but are rheumatoid arthritis. People listening. Yes, it's the auto immune version of inflammatory arthritis. She came in. She was saying Tiriac can barely walk. I don't understand because I'm I'm making my juice. Every morning with kale in garlic and cabbage. Will that was kicking her? But it was inflaming her her her joints so dramatically. She walked in here. As follows. She's like I feel like a twenty year old. So this is this is a big deal our bodies, it's the foods of the past aren't the foods of the present. And so because of the way that our environment has shifted our own gut vile, for example, we no longer make the gut bacteria that helps us breakdown oxalates, and what are oscillating oxalates, really, healthy foods such as spinach in almonds in black beans coconut, and if we have one if we have that genetic polymorphism to if we have a susceptibility to Candida, then we're really screw Gould because Candida helps increase oxalate acid. We can't down ostlund acid because we don't have the gut bacteria Oxy. Acid can make us manic can make depress can make us self self-harm big deal. It's very big in the autism community. The inability of these kids to breakdown oxalates in a lot of moms have been told that your your child has candied don't feed them cow milk. Not that I'm a great. I'm not a I don't hate count. If we do a better be a two, but, you know, feed them almond milk instead or coconut milk and almond is a huge oxalate in. So these kids are actually it by eating healthily are doing anything, but helping their body. So this this sulfur metabolism. Gene. You mentioned CBS. That's a sister. Finding beta synthase that that will play a role in like you mentioned not just homocysteine metabolism. So you'd want to take into account your intake of of full of acid in full eight and perhaps prioritize things like mental Tetra hydrofoil late in a multivitamin. But you'd also want to limit sulfur groups, if you wound up having a version of that gene that would limit your ability to be able to metabolize sulfate, and you'd be one of those people who would want to especially mitigate consumption of like life, Assayed containing grains, or plants. Absolutely any one of the things that really helps that CVS gene is vitamin B six in the form of P five P. It helps up that genetic polymorphisms von more ply morphism. Also what we have to watch out for. It's not only are food. But there so many salsa based supplements out in the market. Place today that are touted as being amazing any oxidants. For example, glucose I on that's a self abased any oxidant insisting as you mentioned, right? So knack, which is is been tattered as such a liberty toxic fire back can really be problematic for those of us that can't convert the sulfur alpha lipoic acid, another sulfur based supplement. So again, it's it's really looking at how do we navigate that? In. To the to your audience in my saying, never eat a piece of broccoli again. No. But we have to do is. We have what I call Centre Lane clues in that we have our French foods. And once we heal and seal, our gut because we're eating to our genetic blueprint in our state of health than we can we can navigate in and out, and that's why feel like body talk. So important, you know, if you had rockabilly with, you know, some Cornish game handed in you did some wild rice. That's great. But if you had Rockley with flock which had raw garlic in there. And then you had eggs for breakfast that may have tipped you into sympa in into symptomology in. So it's really important that we take back in power ourselves to know, what our body is telling us because the body is constant communicator. But we've never been taught how to terp those body signals. I don't believe we've been taught sufficiently, and that's what I do in my practice. I'm not only a clinician, but I'm educator because I believed that then we it allows us to come from a place of. Informed decision in. Sometimes, you know, you're gonna say, well, I'm gonna go ahead have that that tequila tequila sulfur anyway. But I'm okay because you know, I'm gonna I'm gonna do something. I'll do my green juice the next day or all all mitigated in other ways. And so it or you're just gonna say I'm just gonna have that Saturday night in really deal with it because my guts pretty sealed. Show. Want to interrupt real quick? I wanted to tell you about this thing called the soa. So you have this. This sauce muscle that goes up either side of your gut, and when that thing is tight it can cause constipation it can keep your gluts from activating can cause back pain and a ton of people walk around with an extremely tight so ass. It's difficult muscle to massage or to target. But there's this device that I've been using. It's called a so right PS. Oh, right. Very simple device that you can you could travel with I keep mine in my living room and just kind of get on your stomach on this thing. And it allows you to release yourself within like fifteen seconds. It's like having your your own little plastic massage therapist right there on your living room floor or keep this thing. And if you have not yet released you're so ass or gotten into so as deep tissue muscle work. You probably are pretty bound up in your hip and your back in this thing does the trick. They're going to give anybody a ten percent discount on this thing. It's called the so right? And it's very simple to grab on you. Just go to Ben greenfield finished dot com slash feels. So right like SO feel so right and code is Ben 1-0. So it's Ben Greenville, fitness dot com slash feel. So right comes with all the instructions cool thing is us on your hips, you knees. Your attic Thor's your calves like us part of your body. But the the cell ass is it's the bee's knees. If you're able to to reach that muscle, and it's hard to reach. But this thing does it this podcast. Also brought to you by Birdwell beach britches. These are made in California amazing apparel their shorts are made from serfs rich four way stretch, micro, fiber, which gives you a ton of mobility. But then they also have durability. A lot of these these clothing companies that make. Clothing of all things that increases the durability. They just don't move. Well, but they've kinda cracked the code on how to make these birches move well last longtime so long. In fact, they have a lifetime guarantee, they fashion them. They're inspired by the sailboat sales from from boats off the coast of California. And so it's like this unbreakable they caused surf nil fabric and it's unbelievably flexible as well. Plus, they look really good doesn't look like you were in a space suit. I wear the shorts the beach to the pool. I love them a lovebird wells, and you get ten percent off your first Birdwell beach purchase purchase along with that lifetime guarantee and free shipping over ninety nine dollars for any order. You got gotta Birdwell dot com. B I R D W E L, L dot com and over Birdwell dot com. Just use discount code Ben g at checkout. So they have it. Now, another another question here kind of steering back away from from the deep science of Seoul for and back to some of the practicalities of this wild, Terry diet Hauer how are your clients and your patience, you know, especially those living in urban areas getting their hands on on a lot of these foods that are that are wild. That are not farmed that are non chemically altered. You know, that would be considered in many cases, just you know, game meat or wild plants. Yes. So we have were lucky that we have a lot of resources that provide us for that d'artagnan foods, which I use personally they shipped to fifty states overnight con. Con d'artagnan, and we get your listeners a link of after the show with like it. But really they have phenomenal bison wild boar venison, elk of lamb New Zealand lamb of dish that and then we have living in the metro DC area. There's a outlet called your Ganic pitcher. But also, you know, you'd be surprised the major grocers or carrying New Zealand lamb, they're carrying a bison a Harris teeter here in the in the mid Atlantic carries elk ground, elk. So it's becoming more and more available. Now in my book. We talk about that ever everybody goes wild. We start, you know, feed lot type farming methodologies for these wild game. They will no longer be wild. So part of the wild -tarian movement truly is that that we opt for sustainably raised approach to our animals of. But what I'm finding is. We've had who've. Animals on our planet for millennia. Why is it now that the methane is finally becoming an issue in what one of my considerations that I'm talking about in terms of why methane is such a problem? Now as it were feeding our feed lock cows in our our our hooved animals foods that they cannot digest. And so just like us if we can't digest the food we're gonna produce methane gas. If these animals can't digest the corn. They're gonna produce methane gas Erba wars what about vegetables, how are your clients giving their wild vegetables. So vegetables the vegetables, I call them wild -tarian, grains that sort of air quote while Tyrian. So we looked to as we look for small and medium chain farmer of medium size. Farmers local farmers that aren't necessarily organic we have to look at what our Ganic standards are because you are Ganic standards have been diluted, but the FDA has diluted the definition of whether Ganic is but what I. Call A while -tarian grain is or vegetable is those vegetables that are are suited to your wild type. Like, for example, you may do very well on on a spinach. I can't because I also have oxalate issue. But instead I'll look to a spiritual look to my my Japanese sweet potatoes were all look to my on artichoke of my my wonderful bib in Boston lettuce. So those are what I talk about. They don't necessarily have to be wild is just that they fall under the wild Tyrian umbrella because the big definition of wild Tyrian in that category is low mycotoxin mycotoxin is a fungal metabolite. That fire starts again, the biofilm biofilm amyloid in the virus on it's like this ping pong effect. So what we're looking to do as relooking to minimize those in the intake of those foods that are deemed to be air quote healthy, but are no longer being able to metabolize d- in our system appropriately. As nature intended. And it's doing multiple effect on the body. It's one it's a tripping genetic. So now, we've got symptomology, but it's also than feeding these bacteria Enviro, his column, viruses that coexist in our in our gut by on. We know that eight percent of our DNA is viral. We know that we are outnumbered by our bacteria by trillions and trillions and trillions of bacteria versus ourselves in. So trying to radically them is not working. We will completely be outnumbered. So we have to be what I call get them out of the becoming bullies in the sandbox by our food supply in have them be everyone have seat at the table. So that can be a diverse population. But when we're feeding the wrong things through Cornyn through Ps through peanuts. We can talk about that in a little bit hob the tilt dilatot, those things are those aren't the right types. Those are non while the -tarian legumes in grants knowing the book, you said that you drink salary. In cucumber juice every day. I know you mentioned you got the sulfur issue trying to avoid soul for intake. But, but when it comes to celery, and cucumber juice is that not an issue or oxygenates initial at all with those. So actually, I like the salon throw 'em cucumber, and then I had a little bit of celery salon. Troas is is a great liberty talks a fire celery. What I like about seller Sicilia has a little bit of sulphur sellers been known to break down oscillates. So I don't use it as often. But I do the cucumber by have to base juices cucumber because it's great for silica silica great for bone health. And for ligament health. It's Alkalis her. It's wonderful. It's really rich in the the minerals that through stress of we become demoralized because we Leach calcium are mineral or mineral balance gets a little bit out of whack and so in it's great liberty talks, salon tro, cucumber. Then I throw some celery in there. But so entre cucumbers, really I love it's my base. It's my base drink every day. Initial celery because I know some people I've I've heard bring up an issue with with lights and salary. I haven't done much research though. It was really interesting. So officer Ellery is is is considered a can be a high oxyde low. Excellent get depending on your genetic. So with me my celery, I'll do a like a four to one ratio. So all do one one stock of celery to four cucumber. So it's much more deluded, even then I dilute it with water, but I find that for for my gut, Viacom, that's a good. That's a good combo platter. Also salaries rich in minerals, so but everyone's different. I think that the the least of kind of most hypoallergenic is just the cucumber in than adding cilantro is wonderful because it's also a liberty talks fire unless you have the this launcher, gene that makes it tastes like soap for you. Okay. Now, you also mentioned peanuts. I think most people are aware that peanuts aren't really a leggings per se. And they they have some issues. But what specifically do you do take issue with for peanuts? So peanuts is aflatoxin. So I call it the devil on steroids. So Michael talk be ruining the experience of all this this popular peanut butter powder. That a lot of people are eating nowadays, you we'll get you some other powder that may be better for you. So as an aflatoxin, it is a carcinogen, it is a massive oxalate, and again because of our food supply, we no longer make the the diverse bacteria to really be able to break down Oslo's, but it's highly highly fungal, and so, you know, as we know that a fungus is a feeds cancer fungus feeds of Hindi defeats the strep. Again, I call that the major fire starter for a a despite gut very few people that I know of can actually consume peanut butter long-term. And I really that is one of like, my if somebody had to tell me or ask me, what is absolutely never on your plate. Peanut butter would be. Crock from up sent wa- switched to almond butter and then even almonds. What's like once? I kind of started to go a little bit more towards really taking into account the quality of the the seeds in the nuts that I ate I even found that almond butter, especially almond butter that's been blended with the skins is that that's also pretty high oxygen food. So I I do a little bit of walnut butter now and occasionally little bit of cashew butter. And some of these newer like coconut butter nut butter type of mixes that don't have a lot of almond butter enema a lot of them use macadamia nut butter and even almond butter. I'm kind of careful with nowadays. But but peanut butter is a much bigger issue in my opinion better. No way all better from because I have not seen since two Timothy especially since I went viral. I got very became very lighting months ago. A stress trips seven viruses in my body had encephalitis in the brain. I had liver damage. I had completely opposite. I was able to myself out of it. But, you know, talk about that's another component the while Teheran. We can talk about stress in the fat metabolism issue in how it really distressed intern on everything we've ever had reignited so post my post viral condition in I'm one hundred percent. Well, now, I'm very sensitive to excellent. So almond butter is not my friend, but I really love sunflower butter. I love the macadamia butter that you mentioned a lot of people though, lump sum flour butter with south lower oil and canola oil on things like that why would sunflower oil fall into that category. Safflower oil or sunflower oil sunflower oil. I think a lot of people consider that to be an oxidizing vegetable oil is not. Yes, it is some. But again, this is what I call the bodies higher of needs. And so if I'm going to be getting some really good mineral, in fact from that sell our butter. Then I'd rather get a little bit or assump- lower around get a little bit of that. And actually take a Khanal which is solver again. And it's not really it's manmade that over that. Ultimately, all for me is my best my best oil because even coconut has has moderate excellent properties. And so again getting back to that bio individuality, and so I say, I say, you have sharks and you have minnows in for me, personally, mice sharks are sulfur and oxygen protein a non non while protein, and the minnows I can deal with because it's it's again, where's the bodies tipping point on the variety of foods in it's really navigating that that food of on my plate, which I do very handily in I travel, I travel all the time. So this is very doable. For your audience thinking what the heck am I gonna eat extremely do? -able? Sunpro does come to depend to different types of sunflower oil, some are kind of low acid some are higher LIC acid. And and I guess the the idea is that with sunflower oil you'd wanna look for like a cold pressed unrefined version of it or like get a sunflower butter. That's got a cold press unrefined version of and I think that that's going to be a lot better from an oxidative standpoint. I know some of them are like, you know, non GMO speller pressed, and you'd also want to look for for high amounts of laic acid that means going to be lower in the the mega six polyunsaturated fatty acids, and those rules kinda go towards any any type of oil that's been extracted from a from a seed or from vegetable. Now, the other thing that you talk about is being preparation methods a lot of people beans, and it's been a while since I've talked about a properly prepare them, and you get into how beans are one of your go-to meals. But how do you actually ensure that the beans are in causing any type of digestive distress or got damaged or bloating? Life. Find that two things one pressure. Cooking a pressure cooker is one of my Staples in my kitchen might pressure cookers actually over forty years old. It was a donated by my mom, and I love it. It's driven base. I wish they still made them but pressure cooker helps to really break down the digestible what I call Exo skeletons of the beans that the hemicellulose in the acid that contains in also the beans contain some lichens so doing that. I also put up cider vinegar when I prepare my beans that helps to break down in allow digestive -bility. And then really interestingly enough what I have found personally is that when I at green pepper to the beans, especially I don't eat a lot of black beans anymore because those high knock slits, but that seems to break break them down a little bit as well in. I don't know if it's because we peppers have such a high vitamin c content that would help break. Down. But of that's what I'm finding usually the pressure cooker the apple cider vinegar and the the peppers and beans before in a pressure cooker. What's what's the actual recipe? How do you do it? It's so easy. I call it being wild in five reckon maker prep meal in five minutes or less. And so it's really it's really pretty easy. You're going do bag be you're gonna do, you know, a cups of water to that bag of beans of? And you're gonna put a little see salt and pepper or without the pepper. Just a little seesaw and the green pepper you can put in their quarter green pepper, and you Detroit closed the pressure cooker bring it up to to wear pressurize in put it on simmer. And you know, you can get you can get some beans done lentils. You can get them done in less than half the other ones that take a little bit more. But actually, the pressure cookers doing all the work for you. So you know, the other the other slow as you go route is to soak the beans in water overnight. Then you're. Cooking them for several hours on Stowe. But the pressure cooker, I believe it helps done that. I just ability speeds of the cooking process, and it's super easy. Okay. No, you mentioned stress and and the fat loss resistance with stress which is about talk about before. But you actually get into kind of an interesting component stress in the book epinephrine and uh specifically talk about something called ballerina syndrome. Can you describe what that is? And while you talk about in the book. Yes. Well, I work with Washington belly. Our with a lot of professional. Valerie knows rebel. I wasn't my but my daughter's p professional she attends. Yes, she she s with Princeton Bali for summer, and she's a Duke right now collegiate experience, but so what I found was that a lot of athletes, and I work with in. We'll get more into your the question about athletes in a minute. But I do a lot of illegality in different in different sports. And what I found was in particular with Valerie now is because of the rigorous dance schedules were there on out on the dance floor for hours at a time. They're pushing they're pushing their bodies of threw up Ephron to help manage that sugar regulation because as you know, the glycogen storage sugar in our muscles or any any long any elite athlete that uses endurance endurance for. You're gonna you're gonna deplete those sugar stores in. So the body is a natural as a natural response to let state vertical not pass out. Push-up Ephron an effort, I call it the cupcake because it is a fat in a sugar in so epinephrine that's over secreted over time. The reason I coined ballerina syndrome is that epinephrine has multiple dilatory effects on the body. Epinephrine is a stress hormone. It's is signaled by the to Terry in it is secreted by the adrenals, epinephrine neuro hormone. Meaning that it is it helps neurology pushes sugar. But it's also fat. It's a hormone. And so what we found is through clinical studies that we found also through our clinical outcomes in our practices that Efren opens the tight junctions of the gut effectively leaking your gut making you more fat moms or one to epinephrine these little bugs or super smart. It actually increases the pathogenicity meaning the strength of our Candida of our of our viruses of our streptococcus that reside in our gun. The little flip gel, which is like I call him. Doc little. Caterpillar antenna, they they come together, and they grouped together making them more robust in our system robust against our favor. And then the third thing is that. So we have a dysregulates insulin because as you push up an effort the body thinks that's why call another cupcakes. Oh my gosh. I just I just had sugar effectively. So the Ingles is Len in the we become hypoglycemic. And so the salary syndrome is over exertion of different over time as opposed to as our bodies were intended to from our whole prehistoric go fight or flight, go go fight that battle or flee from the mammoth willy mammoth that you can't win. So it's this the the stress response, and you don't have to be about arena to be a part of the ballerina syndrome any kind of any kind of event that makes push in secrete epinephrine over time will make Falun will lower Musa by increasing the pathogenicity of our of our bugs will increase the the the. Space between the junctions you're a tie tensions of the gut making got leaky. And also makes us the fat metabolism fat absorption goes to hormones as well. So then we can become hormones regulator Nicey a lot of women that or homeowners regulated in that case again back to Kito. That's not that wouldn't be great for them, especially than if you have back to the genetics. If you have any one of those polymorphism that don't make you and an optimal metabolize fats growing. Interesting. No, how how would you know, speaking of epinephrine and stress how it an athlete incorporate like a wild cheering Dieter because a lot of athletes, you know, they're still using things like supplements protein, powders energy bars, some some of these convenient package foods, just because it's difficulty quail while you're, you know, running a bicycle preparing for an iron man or difficult to put beans pressure cooker in rep those aluminum foil for Spartan race or something. So so how are you tackling that that aspect for people who do need to kind of kind of eat on the fly so to speak? Yes. So I got a great question. So what we do is we lease we work with again, many athletes enlists look look at Spartan race. Well, you can. Have that? You don't have an Oxford issue almond butter in the in the single packs. We've got we have them packing sweet potato rounds. Which is great because it's great for a quick sugar a sugar hit and also it helps with regulation of insulin. And we can do also we've got the epic bars which are vice jerky that you can do. I'm coming out with a a new supplement called wild lights, which is an electrolyte powder made of watermelons Alonzo sea salt incredible for managing that that electrolyte balance in the body for these for these maintenance athletes, but we can navigate a from a while the -tarian perspective, people can have fish or lamb. If you're on the road of your overnight, if you will or you know, the worst case scenario, we say Turkey is the least of the worst options that you can have some free range trip because it doesn't seem to be as. Dilatoriness is chicken, I called chicken the dirty bird. It's got the highest amyloid count of all the animals that agree. What about because I have chickens. What about a backyard checking your talking about chickens raisin in traditional like, what do you call like like capable type of situation? Right. Yes, now, but what I have found then which is really interesting is that the aviary communicate by sonar. I haven't been able to prove the scientifically yet. But I hope to one day, I do know that genetics. Get transferred through sunflower sees a some flowers of you've seen that research. But they actually looked at one another genita- genetic transfer, and because the chickens particular communicate by sonar what we are finding is that there is a transference of DNA. And so that's why I call it. The dirty bird is that what we have found. I've tested in house even Polly face far chicken, which I love Jill solid on is incredible. And he he has created a utopian farm out in Virginia. But even there there's still something with chicken. So I would say chicken is. Lease best option. Of course, if you have a heritage breed chicken, but you're growing in your backyard. That's never been tampered with genetically than that might be. Okay. We find it heritage freeze or better. But what we've also found his through the clinical outcomes in my practice, even win our clients of say, what your, you know, your gut is better. Now, let's try you can try a little chicken. They try organic in pasture fed still feel as well. So the chickens the chickens are really. Nama? What do you mean when you say that communicate by sonar? Also, we know that birds, you know, when they fly, they communicate they tau that's Hobart's communicated in chicken being part of the aviary. And so just like a dislike the sunflowers where they actually communicate in an interesting way. My my hypothesis is that they are having some level of communication that is transferring DNA now, I haven't I haven't been able to prove that yet. But what I do know is genetically we have multiple generations of DNA that are transferred. So at a minimum. You don't know if that chicken was a feed lot chicken two generations ago or four generations ago. I wrote an article about that in logs one of my blogs about how the verse communicates are concerned that to you in my hypotheses of very interesting to see that. Yes. Okay. That's interesting. And what were you saying about the you talking about sunflower seeds? Yes. There's a study that showed that chancellor sunflowers. He's actually transferred United that when they go in turn towards one another. Spring transferring DNA properties, it's really fascinating. What do you mean the turn towards one another? So this the sunflower seeds not deceits excuse me, sunflowers using the sunflower seeds, pardon me, the sunflowers. No kale. Turn. Okay. I know what? Okay. I understand what you're saying. No. Yeah. Yeah. And I've I've seen some of this data on plant communication mechanisms on how you know, one one one tree, for example is being fed on somehow transmits. I didn't know if it was some some type of polyphenol or essential oil release or like communicating through the network. What's it called the the fungal network? The y blanking on the name, the fungal network blow the the plants that's the what's that? Yeah. Yeah. Through the word, isn't Reizo. It's it's a largest living organism on the planet earth. The Mike arise on that work. Like the rise on that worked at the Mike arrival network. I didn't know if it was communication be that or what? But other plants will up regulate their antioxidant mechanisms in general area or flowers will fold in upon themselves, or you know, these plants are somehow communicating but with sunflowers turning towards one another. So you're you're saying the sunflowers communicating and what does that have to do? Exactly what the chickens. Well, I'm just using that always would life whole must lose you're on constant nerd and trying to understand science. It hasn't yet been eliminated fully yet. And so if if sunflowers can communicate through some sort of mechanism sonar allows for some level of communication between the birds if they're communicating and transferring the NA is it possible, I'm not saying that it's proven. But would it be possible that these are also? Vice own are communicating some transference of DNA Oko interesting. You have it sounds like a lot of that type pop asus. But regardless I guess, the big picture here is that, you know, I guess this is kind of the big picture the wild cheering dieted as a whole is you need to take into some pretty serious account. What you're eating eight. Absolutely. Does raise the stress conditions under which was raised stress conditions how it was raised in. We know that when you know, the beyond the the amyloid when these animals are raised in stressful conditions releasing adrenalin into their tissues. So reflectively, you know, we're actively taking that in as well. So, you know, even this hypothesis, even if we put that hypothesis to completely on the black backburner into the side, we know that chickens for the most part also because her life stance fans are so fast. You know, so short rather that their DNA transference from one generation to to another. It's almost becoming you know, this this mutant DNA that keeps transferring generation beyond generation in. That's that's that's why I deemed the Jiechi dirty bird. What your take on supplements? Like, you know, the use of capsules and pills and things like that. Where would they fit into a while the turn diet? I believe that you know, it because our food supplies, you know, ninety percent of the top soil in the nutrients from tops in depleted. We just don't have. We don't have the nutrient value that we dinner soil as we used to. So ideally of it will eventually come from food, but we just don't have the nutrient nutrient rich food to to give us what we need from nutrient perspective. And so I believe that we supplement strategically if we have a deficiency than absolutely we need, we need supplementation. If we have genes that haven't been expert have been expressed. So for example, if you have that Kant, gene than coin inositol is gonna really be helpful in managing that that genetic polymorphism as I mentioned before the CVS, gene is very good for for sulfur processing. If you have the the metal the methylation, gene than some level of of fully may be helpful in some methylated form of b twelve. So I do believe that supplements are part of the pig. Scher in developed my own supplement of a few miles supplement lines based on the bio individuality because a lot of these supplements out in the marketplace today have have some certain certain constituents that can trip what I call the big needle movers genetics. You know, there's a lot of sulfur in there. If there is something that down regulates the SATA chrome p four fifty gene, I know turmeric has become very popular of late in. It's very good for many peoples in anti inflammatory. But if you have some of the pine morphism of the CYP for fifty gene in turmeric can be pro inflammatory for some people myself included. So again, it gets back to who are you. And how are you? Right. Who are you from genetic perspective? How are you presenting from a health perspective? And how do you navigate that? And people could go to your what your what your website, Terry, crane dot com. Yes. So people could go there if they wanted to have you like like like take their rod Twenty-three me results and run those through and see what type of diet, they should beating. Yes. Yes. What we've done for the consumer. That can't see us. A quiz on our website. That allows us allows you to figure out what kind of wild hearing, you are developed for wild types, the basic wild here, which is you know, we're just going to be better off eating wild game because middle acids are so much more digestible you've got the sulfur what low-sulphur while Tyrian fat Weller, tearing low-sulphur, low fat while interior, and then there's a little side of quiz conceive. You have an sensitivity, but you're eating to those basic wild types, ROY taking genetics. You're figuring out what you can and cannot handle from a nutritional standpoint. And then you are regardless of what the diet it turns out to be for you choosing any elements of those diet from his close a form the nature as possible. Exactly in the great thing about the wild -tarian diet as you can take the quiz over and over again. And because our lives are not static. We can't expect our bodies to be static. So for example, let's just a look at him on who's just had a baby will she's just done a bunch of hormone dumping for nine months. She may not have been a low fat while -tarian prior to getting pregnant, but now after the bait she may need after she's finished nursing. She may need to be low fat for a little bit because the dynamics of hormones of change. And so she's going to have to cut back on that sun butter for a little bitter cutback on that, you know, heavy heavy lamb, if so you go below that while the Tarrant for a little bit to let to let that fat be better assimilated in the body not dumping a lot of nutrient nutrient fat into the system. So this this is why love the wild -tarian diet because it's it's it is it is a diet that has momentum. And it is a diet that is not static. It can shift along with you in how your body shifts based on your life. Yeah. I do a lot of that similar approach of my clients. Typically, take the raw data and in all use a service like typically, permet theis or strategy to get my hands on some of the some of the more important so-called dirty jeans is Dr Ben Lynch develop that one calls them. And then that gives me, you know, along with their stool data their their blood data, which I specially used for filling in the gaps for for supplementation. And typically like like Genova diagnostics neutral to look at all the little things like the amino acids, and the fatty acids and everything and you can get a really good idea. I use a little bit more than genetics. Do a lot of the blood or the urine or stool testing as well. They do the comprehensive still digestive analysis from. Novo? I love your Ganic acid test. That's a really good looks at neurotransmitters. It really gets into the him. I love the sector cell intracellular test for what are your vitamins minerals, really doing inside your cells? We do a lot of that. I also in my practice. I use a flight to really help get really granular. And this is where I feel there's there's a beautiful science behind it. And I've developed my own form of applied kinesiology within that world. And so would it does is it helps us figure out is that individual. Let's say for example, you have that CBS gene in so clinically. You would need that P five P that form be six in the form of feet. However is that if that client is highly de Mylan ated, we work with a lot of MS my practice, then that be vitamin instead of a helper as I call it can be a buzzy b because B's tend to be enervating in that person is highly minded than. Through the muscle testing. We can see that supplement is not great for them yet. And so there's a very intentional process in protocol as to win supplements get started and the way that I work in my practice. Even when we say these are the right in this is the right combo platter of supplements for you. I don't start them all on the same day. And there is a process like, for example, if we're working on somebody with lime or with she motos that has an obscene bar under under layment a obscene bar than we're not going to try to manage that virus until we opened up the methylation in sulfate pathways until we opened up their liberty toxication pathways. We're not gonna try to you know, d- Neutralizer or kill something that has to be detected by the body if those photos of the talks vacation or not open. Makes sense interesting. Well, I thought the book was absolutely fantastic. I I got a lot out of it. And it just makes sense. And I think that if you put the right resources together and you shop at the farmer's Marquis. Join the local CSA even consider doing things like hunting, go into a meet up and learning things like plant foraging using some of these websites. You talked about that that the tannin. What's it called Dr tannin? Tanning website, or you know, like all all use US wellness meets a law for that type of thing in end. There's a way you can string all this together without necessarily going to Overton or Safeway or Costco. And I think it's a really good idea. And what I'm gonna do is. I'm gonna link not only to the book in the show notes for today's show, which are gonna be Ben greenfield finished dot com slash wild. -tarian? Just like it sounds. It's wild -tarian. So remember, it's spelled with an A like while the -tarian, but I will also linked to a lot of the things we talked about that quiz that you did. And then some of the studies if you wanna send me some studies you're talking about and I'll just put that all over Ben greenfield finished dot com slash wild. -tarian? There's there's a lot in the book in terms of like some of the practical nitty gritties that we didn't get into. So I think it's it's well worth going out and and buying this book. It's still available Amazon right at. Absolutely cool. Cool. Yeah. I just got the kindle version. But there's a there's a print copy to and check it out. It's it's well worth the read. So Terry, thanks for writing this book and for for making me aware of its existence and also for coming on the show, and and talking to this talk talking with us about this stuff. Pleasure. You know, it's it's ever learning. In science keeps evolving, and that's one of things that, you know, staying open to what might be out there that scientists yet not a uncovered. But our bodies are telling us, so. Yeah. Absolutely awesome. All right, folks. Well, it's going to be a Ben greenfield finished dot com slash wild -tarian. And until then I'm Ben greenfield along with Terry Cochran signing out from Ben greenfield, fitness dot com of an amazing week. Thanks for listening to today's show. You can grab all the show notes resources pretty much everything that I mentioned at Ben greenfield, fitness dot com, along with plenty of other goodies from me, including the highly helpful Ben recommends page which is a list of pretty much everything that I've ever recommended for hormone sleep digestion, fat loss performance, plenty more, please also know that all the links all the promo codes that I mentioned during this and every episode helped to make this podcast happen and to generate income that Nabil's me to keep bringing you this content every single week. So when you listen in be sure to use the links in the show notes, use the promo code the generate because that helps to float this thing and keep it coming to you each and every week.