20 Episode results for "muller"

The Muller Hearings

Part of the Problem

1:28:27 hr | 1 year ago

The Muller Hearings

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Let them know you're with us. Get that great discount trust me. You're GonNa thank me for this one all right. Let's start the show. We need to roll back the state we spy on all of our own citizens. Our prisons are flooded with non violent drug offenders. If you WANNA know who America's next enemy is look at we're refunding right now problems our government doing way too big what is up everybody what is going on. Welcome to a brand new episode of part of the problem I <hes> I think we got a good one in store for you today. It is Wednesday and I am continuing my extended Wednesday one on one interviews back by popular demand Robert Fire Bernstein because have you booked again out of contract too so it's it's particularly special yeah. No this is this is this is a completely different negotiation for these Wednesday episodes then for the normal. I'm I'm running out of stories to tell after three interviews now well today. We're going to tell a story about the news of the day so I was. I was actually debating putting out the episode that we that I recorded with Geoff Dyson the missus institute institute but that was kind of evergreen and of course today was the muller hearings so I figure we'll hold onto that one. We'll put that one out soon for you guys but I couldn't <hes> we couldn't not come in today and break down the <hes> the muller hearings he he he testified in front of two different congressional committees the that the House Judiciary Committee and the House Intelligence Committee and he went went for quite a long time. I think he did three and a half hours on the first one something like that. I think he might still be going now. I watched about four hours. Maybe that's why it was old and sleepy. He was just holding his energy. They can't because it's a six hour marathon. You don't WanNA come out hot. You're really sit back mumble. There's something really interesting about that. I think it's bullshit. I think he every other time you've seen him. He's kind of on the Hammers of justice sisters. You haven't really seen him. In this type of format I mean he plays the on the old and weak card. It's quite possible it's quite possible. We'll look that those are the two possibilities right it neither one particularly good. It's either that he's he's actually this old and <hes> discombobulated does not know the basics. The basic facts of his own report. I mean has less of a command of the knowledge of the report that I do like he was struggling going with names and fusion. G._P._S. seem to throw them for a loop. He wasn't sure what that was. He seemed to not know who Corey Lewandowski was at one point has it wasn't following what was going on seemed to have no command over his own report so that's a bad scenario and then the other scenario that you're saying that he's playing this up is actually even worse in terms of as a reflection of muller and those are as far as I can see the only two options that are there. You know this is really him or he's pretending this is him either one really bad and there's something about that that in itself is revealing no matter which one of those two scenarios it is like I remember you know and because I kind of you know I've done a you know these Cable News Gigs and I've talked to a lot of people. This is the thing when you the panels it's always different panels that you would you meet a lot of different people who are in the mainstream media world and I've. I can't tell you how many of them used to say like they'd Speak Week of these men with such reverence like the it was combing for a long time a whole bunch of people. It'd be like whatever you say about Komi. This is a man of the utmost integrity P. completely professional really trustworthy and and then when you actually start to see him he gets introduced to the nation. He's like this guy is the slimy EST shadiest guy you could imagine who's just trying to sell a book and get more face time on TV. Who is acting in this outrageously unprofessional? All manner leaking things intentionally to score political points and like you guys are the same with Muller Muller is just the this guy. Is You know border line American hero could nobody couldn't could question his integrity and then you actually see the guy and you're like wow well. He's either one of two things in old incompetent man or a complete fraud. There's just no getting around. Those are the only two options after watching today's hearings. There's Ah let me know if you see a third option in there. I don't see one that is all that is all that could possibly be from my from what my brain can think up man's a fraud. He got busted running some phony investigation allegation for two years on behalf of the deep state and the F._B._i.. Well that's right got pulled into a congressional hearing. He's got an answer for the fact that it was fabricated evidence that very early on he realized that the underlying collusion thing didn't exist and then the card from there was that they were just trying to get trump to come in for to actually give testimonies they catch them lying in his testimony and then even today on TV the big thing of the Democrats were how is it that he evaded coming in for testimony. It's clear an amazing and they were still saying the morality of that he wouldn't come in and give testimony and the idea that you give up on the underlying crime and still still be upset that somebody didn't come in and testify when you were going around getting getting everybody you could on Miss Remembering the truth or lying or whatever why he wouldn't WanNa go. I mean it's so the to ask the question is to answer the question itself. Why wouldn't he want to go into well of course not because he didn't commit the crime so he's got nothing and to gain and everything to lose I mean quite literally nothing to gain and everything his life and freedom to lose and and anyway there's look just for a little bit of backdrop and I wanNA try on this episode to not you know repeat things that we've said in the past although quite often I do repeat things that have been said another shows but that's just because if you ever find yourself going I think Dave already said this once? I think he's trying this well. There's that but also that it's that damn important yeah. You need to hear it again. There's my excuse probably Rob's answer was a little bit better but let's go with mine so I chain my this. Is that s display reaffirming affirming what we've just been kinda thrown out there which you could argue as quasi conspiracy conspiracy not ause. I take the clause I added there. It is straight up a conspiracy. I've we have both been saying spiracy for years now and it is a conspiracy but the way this was a conspiracy no matter what the story turned out to be right this was this is the biggest story of the last three years. It's one of the biggest stories in modern American history and it was going to be the biggest story whether it was C._N._N.. End was telling you or it was what we're telling you and either way. It was going to be a conspiracy if what C._N._N.. was telling US Tru. Donald Trump was involved in a conspiracy with the Russians to help him to interfere in the election to help him. <hes> you know beat Hillary Clinton in the rural types of deals els if the if the steele dossier was correct. That's a conspiracy that trump's involved in a conspiracy with the Russians or if we were correct then this is a conspiracy by the deep state to try to unseat an elected president either way either way. It's a conspiracy and either way it's one of the biggest stories in American history and it's it's it's amazing and as I've said before on this I'm not making this. We said this and nobody else that there were a lot of people who were right on this but it's amazing that we we started with this position quite a while ago while C._N._n.. Was All they could talk about was trump Russia collusion all day long every single day. That's changed a little bit all of a sudden. They're outraged about tweets and stuff like this and we've you know Oh my God he said go back to your country but you know no talk of this. What was the story for years and years and as more and more information has come out over those years the C._N._N.? Story of their conspiracy has been more and more disproven to the point that it's a joke. I mean really this was there. What what we saw today with? Muller testifying was the last thing that people could hang onto because remember for so long it was muller's going to bring him down. Even the head of the Adam Schiff chef the head of the House Intelligence Committee saying we have evidence of collusion and we're just waiting for Muller Muller is GonNa come bring him down. Muller was supposed to lead Donald trump out of the White House in handcuffs. The whole left wing of America would cheer would be this Great Day because they i. I don't know get to put Mike Pence into the White House. I'm not even sure why just for vengeance I think is the only reason they actually wanted this to happen and more and more and more that that narrative has been destroyed then and it was like well. Maybe we can get him on obstruction set that was destroyed by bar and Muller Subsequent <hes> press conference and now this was their last hope well. Maybe if we get Muller in front of Congress we we can really grill him. We can lay the grounds for impeachment or at least really damage Donald Trump you know he'll give us real dirt on him. <hes> going into the twenty twenty election so they're all of these stories have fallen apart. Today was was a humongous loss for the Democrats for the everybody who supported the Muller investigation everybody who bought into the C._N._N.. M._S._N._B._C. Conspiracy conversely from what we've been saying for the last few years as more and more information has come out. It's just our case has been built on more and more solid grounds before we get into that and what's really interesting. Is that strategically the people that were pushing for for this sit down were the Democrat and whatever they were looking to get out of it. They just they didn't so I don't really know and even trump was afraid of this thing he he didn't want her happen. Well it's interesting how poorly this played out for them. Yeah it is and also look you can understand why Donald Trump wouldn't want this to go on anymore because he wanted to. just be like I'm vindicated yeah. This is over. I don't WanNa keep people thinking about trump Russia collusion. I WANNA move on to what I WANNA. Talk about and <hes> and also you you understand that anybody who's been you know if you'd think like look if I just right now let's say brought my phone and did like a facebook live or like a twitter live periscope video or something and brought it into your apartment as going through all your stuff. You'd be nervous even if you were like. I have nothing to be nervous about here. I haven't done anything wrong. You'd be like what are you doing. You're going through all my stuff so I understand where somebody who went through your entire hire room metaphorically and is now going to testify. You'd be like I don't know I don't want you guys asking them. All types of questions about anything and also was very obvious from today's hearings was just how the other thing is as I was saying about Muller Zone credibility ability his own character is that it was obvious that this was like a hit job on trump. He was happy to speculate an answer questions about anything that would make trump look bad and anything that would make trump look good. It was always while I can't answer that. I'M NOT GONNA speak to that. Even when there were questions he could have answered so anyway. It's really it's something to to sit back and marinate on for a minute how much there was nothing there this whole whole time and I know look. I know that there's not going to be any headlines on C._N._N.. Or M._S._N._B._C. that read well. This was a really bad day for us. We got this all wrong. Everyone will cling to their own little narrative and they'll be little things that they hey hold onto. I already saw on C._N._N.. Dot Com I was looking at just see how they're spinning this as it goes and and it's like Muller Calls Out Donald Trump's tweet as reckless thing I mean they're grasping at straws. How's that like are so thin at this point? It's it's it's really quite amazing and I gotta say four. There's gotta be even amongst the trump haters. There's gotta be a little feeling in your soul when you go. I want actually pulled this up so I get the <hes> the headline that I'm looking at here correctly so when you go from Donald Trump was involved in a criminal conspiracy with the Russians to steal the presidency away. Eight from Hillary Clinton and he's even possibly a Russian of a Russian puppet or something like this and then you go to muller color. Here's the headline Muller condemns trump's wikileaks praise as the first headline on C._N._N.. Dot Com so muller didn't like that trump praised wikileaks saying okay who the fuck cares what Muller likes yeah. You're a prosecutor. Dude Care how you felt about a comment. Who Cares was it legal? Okay then shut the fuck up and go away. What did why didn't like that? You said that really what do you think about the anniversary present. I'm planning on getting from my wife. Oh wait. I don't care I don't care what your opinion is on a random comment. That's what they're holding onto. Although I will say that down if you keep scrolling down right it's like <hes> Muller condemned trump's wikileaks. Praise as problematic is an understatement. The former special counsel says about trump's praise of wikileaks ten key takeaways from molars testimony can trump be charged after leaving office. Oh God it's a little ridiculous election. Meddling Russians are interfering with elections as we sit here Muller says Muller on Russia. We expect interference in twenty twenty. This is what they've they've gotten down to now. Is I mean it's it's actually actually pathetic however right underneath that one there is an opinion muller. Testimony is a nightmare for Democrats so I will grant that even C._N._N.. Even they had to have one opinion opinion writer acknowledged that this went really really bad for and it was <hes> Alice Stewart so credit to Alice Stewart <hes> because I guess there was one person there who's living in reality. She probably won't be with the network for too much longer. I'd watch your job. You're not supposed to admit that <hes> but to see it all come down to this was really it was really something so let's I guess maybe we could we could talk about some key takeaways from today because there was some interesting new information that <hes> that came out <hes> all of it just disastrous Astra's for the Democrats and they can cling to all the stuff they want to but man it was it was bad and it was just bad to see that muller was so unimpressive so unimpressive of you know again like you said before. Maybe he's faking it. Maybe that's really him either way. That's not an impressive showing at a Congressional hearing so to me what the the biggest takeaway of the whole thing which was was actually something that that Muller was a little bit unclear about in the first testimony but then he cleared it up in the second one and he opened with it. He offered it himself so I think you now he may have had some advice from people rounded more like yeah you got to clear this up because you made the sounds bad but what he said that really should have been set a long time ago because he was fine to just let people speculate about this but that whole the the whole notion that has been literally the last you know the last thing that the Democrats and the mainstream media have been hanging onto I mean like as if you're you know you're in one of those like action movies where there's that like you're in a helicopter and the rope ladder that hangs down and you had to like hold a little girl in one hand and you're hanging on to that ladder with another hand as you fly through the skies of New York City the last thing the last thing they're hanging onto hanging onto desperately desperately was that Donald Trump did commit obstruction of justice now. I know I know we've been telling you he's a Russian puppet and he colluded with the Russians and none of that's true however into the investigation that he was innocent of she obstructed Justice Pastas and even though Muller didn't say he obstructed justice he did kind of say well. Here's ten instances where he might have and the only reason why he didn't conclude that trump obstructed justice was because there's this department his Justice Department legal opinion that says you can't charge a sitting president with the crime so <hes> you know he could be charged as soon as he leaves the White House and and this is where they get to the stuff where if you wasn't president didn't he'd be charged with obstruction of justice now as I pointed out on the show before this number one this is just really stupid because the idea that if trump wasn't president he could be charged with obstruction of justice like well if you weren't president and you fired the F._B._I.. B._I. Director what does that even mean. Only the president can fire the F._B._I.. Director so well if you weren't president but you thought about firing the special counsel what if so if I just fired a special counsel. I can't nobody except the president can do Ooh that's even to even put it into the context of not being president was stupid. However this was a death blow to that whole this was cutting the ladder and now you're falling with that little girl in your arms down into times square or or the Hudson River below you Muller said No? That's actually not right. He said he said that we said we couldn't come to a conclusion on whether or not to charge him with obstruction of justice and that is that's it. That's the end of it so in other words he wasn't being charged with obstruction of justice now. Everybody should have known this already because the even by the Department of Justice guideline that says you can't charge a sitting president which I find hard to believe that they would actually enforce it by the way that's not law. It's just something that the Legal Opinion Office of the Justice Department kind of came up with because are you telling me that if Donald Trump if they had uncovered evidence that he was a Russian puppet we'd still go. Well got to beat them at the ballot. Box can't charge present. You know what I mean. That seems crazy to me. However the the anyone should have known this because even though the guidelines says you can't charge a sitting president that doesn't mean that Muller couldn't right in his report he obstructed justice but we can't charge him because of this guideline he could have written that he could have said that also another pretty big blow to the obstruction of justice nonsense is that if Donald Trump had been guilty of obstructing justice? It's not like Donald Trump himself self would have physically obstructed justice right like even if Donald trump with he would have had people around him do it in which case you would have seen indictments of other people for obstruction of justice right so the fact that there were no other indictments of obstruction of justice. There were no indictments about a conspiracy with the Russians that is as that is in effect in exoneration on both counts by the way that word came up during the hearings that was so creepy when he's when when Muller went out of his way to point out that he couldn't exonerate Donald Trump and then one of the Congressmen to is credited jump on that and go exonerate like what the hell are you talking about. Prosecutors hitters don't exonerate people that is well outside the purview of a prosecutor. I don't even know who does exonerate people. MAYBE PRIESTS I. I don't know who can exonerate somebody. I suppose a defense attorney if they come up with D._N._A.. Evidence that conclusively proves that somebody else did the crime. I guess you could say you were exonerated in that sense but prosecutors don't exonerate people judges juries none of them exonerate people you find them not guilty Q.. Imagine imagine like it's just one word but it's so creepy how it flips the entire idea of innocent until proven guilty on its head well. We can't exonerate you so I guess. Can you prove that you didn't do it. I mean we don't have enough evidence to charge you but we can exonerate you okay so that was pretty fucking creepy based on what you saw today because the last time he got up and he was talking and all the double negatives you still had the media going you see the head prosecutor thinks that either this I should be impeached but he's just not allowed to actually do it. There was still speaking to him that clearly what he saw. was you know <hes> an undermining of his investigation and trump should have to be punished. There's because the other branches of government and the corruption that they're not doing what Mueller clearly as outlined as being a problem can be dropped from here like do they still have any of that to hold onto or I think just in the same way that the Russia collusion thing was dropped. This is going to be dropped now but they'll still I'll try to fight for scraps and you saw that with the Democrats today they've gone to this pathetic thing and like look. I'm sure it'll be effective on some percentage of the population but anyone paying attention. It's like man you are a dishonest piece of shit but they'll they're doing the thing where they're like and you investigated the the president is that correct that's correct and you found that Popadopoulos light yes that's correct Cohen lied Rosa and signs a lot and so and so and Roger Stone Line okay next question so they're just going you investigated the president and look at all these people who there's indictments against that they can fall back on even though obviously as as anyone paying attention knows it's like yeah but I were investigating the president for a conspiracy and no one was indicted sided with anything to do with that conspiracy and of course this. was you know this was a this has been known for quite a while so what ended up happening with the Muller Muller by the way did not wanNA testify if I made that pretty clear in his news conference and today I think we all saw why Muller did not WanNa testify the it was you know it did not reflect well on him well and to speak to that that and I think that this is one of the things that we should definitely talk about. <hes> in terms of his initial job is to establish whether or not <hes> the president colluded with the Russians and you would think you'd have to have a really good understanding of the initial evidence that opens up that kind of thing to start establishing whether or not that's a legitimate and nope. Oh I mean not only he won't even I think he's GonNa get pulled back because he's got to answer those questions well. I hope he would get pulled back after you know the bar investigation -Ation has done but basically what he was able to say which is bullshit. Oh it was the best bullshit I've ever seen. Anyone spew ever well because he said that because there's an ongoing investigation into the origins of the of the <hes> special counsel or or into the origins of the F._B._i.. Investigation which preceded the Robert Mueller special investigation because that's there's an ongoing investigation about that. I'm sorry I know this is confusing but because there's an investigation into the origins of the investigation instigation that led to the special prosecutor all right. That's what it is because of that. She can't talk about anything that has to do with the origins of the case however look I mean he was asked questions that you he absolutely could answer sir. I mean one person asked him at one point whether he had read the steele dossier and he said I can't answer that because there's an ongoing investigation. I said I'm just asking you if you read the dossier he doesn't. I can't answer that. He can't admit that he read ah or worse. Maybe he didn't because this was not what his Gig was about because he he was just a fucking cog in this deep state plot and the truth is that we know who was working around him in this investigation were people who despised Donald Trump heavily biased agents who despise don really good jobs all right guys. Let's take a quick second and thank our sponsor for today's show which is blinking in today's Day and age it can be hard to find time time to sit down and learn more. It's not easy with social media which can be so addictive and time consuming. You may think you don't have time to read a book or to develop yourself but now there's an APP which I highly recommend it's called blinking blinking. 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I'll tell you something else that I thought was really fucking interesting not having to do with the origins of that at all. He was asked at one point <hes> whether there he wrote his the statement that he said at that press conference and he wouldn't answer he wouldn't answer that so in other words he didn't write it so what the fuck was going on here. I mean like what there's something. It's like guys what is going on here. This is very very strange. You can't answer that why. Why wouldn't you answer that well if you could answer that with a yes I have to assume you would have answered answered? Yes I also don't even see it so bad about going. Oh me and my team put it together but he just doesn't want him the team yeah it came from whoever coordinates between the media and the deep state well I mean it. It's certainly it's is impossible to not speculate a little bit about that. He's saying he's telling you. He can't answer whether he wrote this himself and he was also asked again about how many people he actually interviewed. He would answer that he wouldn't answer how much of the report that he actually wrote himself so basically you're like oh so all of these people who are bragging we will stop Donald Trump and it's really funny that we said this thing. You know like years ago that this is a deep state move to try to you know like basically an attempted coup since then. There's been like the text messages that have come at it might as well have been like this is a state crew. They're like we will stop him. We have an insurance policy mccoo together. You want in doing the people you're still did. I go. I have this next tax from Peter Struck saying this is a deep state cu. You guys trying to Kootenai anyone down to coup totally gonNA coup the shit out of this president and they'd be like wow I mean he was just I being hyperbolic but you know you can always find a defense but come on when the obvious answer is staring you in the face like we we know what this was so there were just a few there. Were a few really interesting moments in in the hearing. Let's play play. Let's go we got a couple of clips pulled up so let's go to the one that <hes> that you pulled up. I rub which I think is an interesting one. Let's let's play this clip and we'll discuss a little bit good morning director if you'll let me quickly summarize is your opening statement this morning said in volume one on the issue of conspiracy the special counsel determined that the investigation did not establish that members of the trump campaign conspired or coordinated with the Russian government. It's election interference activities and in volume to and for reasons that you explain special counsel did not make a determination on whether there was an obstruction of justice crime committed by the president. Is that fair yes sir all right now in explaining this special counsel did not make what you call the traditional Prosecution or declaration decision the report on the bottom of page two volume two reads as follows the evidence we obtained about the president's actions and intent presents difficult issues that prevent us from conclusively determining that no criminal conduct occurred accordingly mainly while this report was not conclude that the President committed a crime it also does not exonerate him. Now I read that correctly. Yes all right now your report and today you've said at all times the special counsel team operated under was guided by and followed Justice Department policies and Principles so which D._O._J.. Policy or principle sets forth a legal standard that investigated person is not exonerated if their innocence from criminal conduct is not conclusively determined. Can you repeat the last part of that Question Yeah Which D._O._J.. Policy or principle set forth a legal standard that an investigated person is not exonerated if their innocence from criminal conduct is not conclusively determined or does that language come from director. Where's The D._O._J.? Policy that says that can you let me make it easier. Is there go ahead. Can you give me an example other than Donald trump or the justice department undetermined that an investigative person was not exonerated was not I mean this busted by the way he's seventy five. He comes off like he's ninety. Five in this thing like you almost like feel bad like their way you talk to like like my <hes> you say grandfather in law is that the correct term my wife's grandfather he's like ninety five and he's more together than the sky like he's like but you know like when you talk to a ninety five year old and so a sentence like that you'd be like Dick. Don't fuck in say this crazy complicated sentence and then every now and then you'll be like you'd be like the babies like rolling over now the baby's rolling over you know you just have to ninety five hearings not that good. You got to kind of it but it's like that with Muller like this. It's it's not that hard of a question to grasp and it's like dude. If you're struggling with this you should not be this person. You should not have this job and then of course which I actually tend to agree with you where you said before. It's quite possible that this is an act and he's just kind of playing up this like hopeless old you remember that Seinfeld and Leo would shoplift and then he'd go. Oh I don't know what's you know it's like. He's doing the Uncle Leo it's not ah it's partially that a lot of this is just the stall tactics are making them look a little bit dumb a lot when you saying hey can you repeat the question he stalling. He knows that it's adversarial and he wants to be able to answer as little questions as possible so because imagine putting into a an official report from an F._B._i.. Investigation while we could not find enough evidence to charge whoever we also couldn't exonerate him which we were Aegis thing to say and that is something that we've been paying for a while you're prosecutor if you don't have the evidence and that means the guys off the hook and then the media was trying to play the other way so finally and I was saying how is this not cleared up that seems like it's a yesterday and good and finally someone actually held them to in and said what exactly is the standard under that you're in. It sounds like you're inventing something here. Lets his his response conclusively determined I cannot but this is unique. You can't time short. I've got five minutes. Let's just leave it at you can't find find it because I'll tell you why it doesn't exist. The special counsel's job nowhere. Does it say that you were to conclusively determine Donald Trump's innocence or that the special counsel report should determine whether or not to exonerate him. It's not in any of the documents it's not in your appointment order. It's not in the special counsel regulations is not in the oil C- opinions it's not in the justice manual and it's not in the principles of federal prosecution nowhere to those words appear together because respectfully respectfully director it was not a special counsel's job to conclusively Early Determined Donald Trump's innocence or to exonerate him because the bedrock principle of our justice system is a presumption of innocence it exists for everyone. Everyone is entitled to it including sitting presidents and because there there is a presumption of innocence prosecutors never ever need to conclusively determine it now director special counsel applied this inverted burden of proof that I can't find and you said it doesn't exist anywhere in the department policies and used it to write a report and the very first line of your report the very first line of your report says as you read this morning at authorizes a special counsel to provide the attorney already general with a confidential report explaining the Prosecution or declaration decisions reached by the special counsel. That's the very first word of your report right correct. Here's the problem director. The special counsel didn't do that at volume one you did on volume two with respect to potential of obstruction of justice. The special counsel made neither a prosecution decision or a declaration decision. You made no decision you told oldest this morning and in your report that you made no determination so respectfully director you didn't follow the special counsel regulations. It clearly says write a confidential report about decisions reached nowhere in here. Does it say write write a report about decisions that weren't reached you wrote one hundred and eighty pages one hundred and eighty pages about decisions that weren't reached about potential crimes that weren't charged or decided and respectfully respectfully respectfully by doing that you manage to violate every principal and the most sacred of traditions about prosecutors not offering extra prosecutorial analysis about potential crimes that aren't charged so Americans need we know this as they listen to the Democrats and Socialists on the other side of the aisle as they do dramatic readings from this report that volume two of this report was not authorized under the law to be written. It was written to a legal legal standard that does not exist at the Justice Department and it was written in violation of Every D._O._J.. Principle about extra prosecutorial commentary I agree with the chairman this morning when he said Donald Trump is not above the law he's not but he damn sure shouldn't be below the law which is we're volume. Two of this report puts him okay so that was pretty great fair to say that held on to it. It's it's hard to argue with any of that and you know of course by the way also this whole the whole hearing format just sucks because you get like a few minutes every congressman kind of grandstands I mean I enjoyed that grandstanding but that's what it was. He wasn't really asking them. Questions is is really kind of like going off on a rant just saying wouldn't it be so much better and I'm not like there's a million people who'd be better than it at it than me but wouldn't it be so much better if muller just had to do my podcast for an hour and a half like wouldn't that be genuinely be a better thing where you could you not just make one little point slapdown a gavel we move onto the next guy he never even had to respond to any of that ranting but actually be grilled in a sustained way for an hour. You know what I mean like in it'd be better better and that's how bad governments that my podcast would do a better job than these fucking hearings but seriously I just even within the governmental frame. Wouldn't you prefer it's like Democrats. Pick one Guy Republicans. Pick one guy and you get to go at it with him. You'd actually expose a lot more. You'd be able to build arguments and not just you know kind of rant for a second. Get One little bullshit answer. You know it's like <hes> but there was I guess in the one little bullshit answer that Muller gave there. There was something kind of interesting because he said where's the legal precedent. Where's the Department of Justice President for you know this type of we couldn't exonerate him for comedy times it again in front of the media and say this is the standard? This is the law I'm upholding the law. You're supposed to be like one of fucking highest lawyers that exists out here standing for justice and you got up in front of Television Multiple Times with what you're clearly admitting here you never believe in was complete bullshit right that is collusion between you and the media trying fabricate a story it might as well against the president might is what it is no that's right and there was something by the way very revealing in the answer muller gave to it which he just all he was able to say well. This was a very different case. It's like yes. You're right. That's right. This was a very different case. This was not about actually searching for guilt or innocence this was you prosecuting a deep state co and that's why this is very different. That's right. We've never done anything like this before. This is very different. This is very different than that whole innocent until proven guilty presumption of innocent you know British common law crap this was bringing down Donald Trump and to your point I mean and this is one of by the way one of the biggest takeaways of the entire Muller investigation what you were just getting at which is that you stood up here knowing now someone asked him by the way directly and this is really what was infuriating with his refusal so basically what happened right like if you asked the and this is how full of Shit Muller was and how how bias he clearly was is if you asked him how how would you feel like when the Democrats came up and said the Donald Trump not you know say praised wikileaks and like you did and do and do you think that was the right thing. He'd be like. I think that was dangerous and wrong and that's where C._N._N.. Gets these these headlines from right like He. He had no problem talking about that but if he was asked any question that that was from the other point of view he just refused to answer so the one point somebody asked him. I forget who it was. One of the Congressmen asked him the so you so that you go so you said in the first book of this report the First Section of this report that there was there was insufficient evidence to to find you know anything of a conspiracy or coordination with the trump campaign and Russia and he goes. Yes that's correct because it says it right here in the report right. There is insufficient. Evidence of any conspiracy goes okay. When did you know that and he says I'm sorry I don't understand the old man thing for a while and he goes well? When did you determine when when did you determine that there was insufficient and he said I can't say instead? He just wouldn't say because that's a really important question. Isn't it yeah. That's a really important question like if you so. You've been doing this for two years. Did you know that a month ago did did you know that a year ago a year and a half ago. Did you know a year and ten months ago because this whole thing now the thing that makes it even more damning right and let's get real. He must have known that pretty early on I mean come on you must have been able to figure out or at least be pretty shore like pretty quickly. If there was some big conspiracy that was going on here some some coordination. You've got all of these people. I mean you've got some pretty pretty high level people in trump's administration who you're now going to send to jail over completely unrelated issues. You've got Michael Cohen flipping complete. You've got trump's right hand man completely flipping ready to sing. You've got all of these people people who are flipping and ready to talk. You must have known we there. There's nothing here we're not gonNA find anything now just to say when we were getting toward the end of this investigation and Michael Cohen was getting ready to come testify before Congress and those feed the you know the that reliable news source where you can find out like the ten sexiest flavors of ice cream this year or whatever whatever they reported remember this God it's just glorious they reported and then came on reliable sources because this is where you get the good information with our favorite little Peggy Brian stelter and they came on reliable sources and said. We've been shown evidence by people in the motor investigation that Michael Kohn was directed to lie to Congress obstruction of justice slam dunk. We've GOT DONALD DONALD TRUMP for this right and we've been shown the evidence. I can't tell you whether it was text messages or documents or other evidence. Remember this but we've seen the evidence okay. We know this for a fact and muller came out not himself but represents the representatives of the Mueller investigation came out and said Hey. That's not true to see you know that's not true because this was going to make the Muller investigation look very bad. You're claiming that people from the Muller Investigation came out and told you this but so we've got to say that's not true true. We have to let you know we can't just let the media run with this thing and I said at the fucking time what they were doing and it was obvious man. It's not like again. We were saying last episode. It's not that I'm fucking smart. I'm an idiot. It's tradition. I should've just obvious if all you have to do not suffer to this is the advantage is when I talk about libertarian superpowers. This is the advantage of not being like just a identify with this team versus this team like ninety percent probably notably more of the voting public. It's just team. Sports is just the same way that people love to get into a fucking stadium and go. I'm sharing the guys in the Red Jerseys and they go. I'm chairing the guys in the Blue Jerseys and the lose their fucking minds like this means in so much to me and you know it's meaningless. It's just getting a ball over a line and having some beers and then we go home it means nothing but we're just tribal. We're tribal creatures. We like to do that you know and most people and that's why you know like when people are so surprised that like Ronald Reagan could be like free trade is a pillar of conservatism and then donald trump should be like free trade is bullshit doesn't work for us and the same people will cheer for both of them. It's because that's their side. It's the same way that when Barack Obama take marriage should be between a man and a woman and now you know Kamala Harris will say if you think that you're a Nazi and they'll cheer for the same people. It's because they're just on that team. It doesn't matter they could say just about anything. They're still on that team but the beauty of being libertarian is that you hate all of them. I hate all of them so I'm not on a team so I'm not blinded by this dumb tribal bullshit and I can just tell you what's this is what's obviously going on so I could see when that buzzfeed then came out and muller came in and said he he was trying to control expectations. He's like look. We're wrapping up this so don't fuck in start thinking we've got this because Michael Collins about to testify and you're gonNA find out this is all bullshit and he did and we did however if Muller Muller was willing to have his people come out to the press when the reporting on a full story and go hold your horses don't get carried away with this. This is not accurate why hi would he never come out when the media was talking about trump being a Russian puppet something he knows to be He. He knows that nobody else should know like he has a more concrete like no. I know for a fact act. This guy's not only is this guy not puppet. There was no collusion or coordination or conspiracy with the Russians. This is all just bullshit yet. He let the media say that forever so the question. When did you know this is very important? So are you telling me for a fucking DOC in year. You sat on your hands. While the there was no rule against you coming out and saying something or having one of your people I mean clearly you did it about the buzzfeed story that's why he was there. Yeah exactly and that's that's what this this whole thing is so you absolutely just allowed this to all happen but will then come out and say I don't know about cone being told to lie as as as we wind this thing down that's but you never thought to yourself right like for whatever have a reason and this this would be like almost my question to him if I had him on my podcast well. Why did you need to correct the record for for the Michael Kohn story because we went into a midterm election where the Democrats took back the house? This is not a small all thing. This really had an effect on the direction of politics in America. The Democrats took back the house by the way the reason this is happening right now is because the Democrats took back the house okay. This is no small thing these are these are important. <hes> you know there's like small little elections like what Al Franken when when he was in the Senate he won by a very small margin and he was the sixtieth vote to get obamacare through yeah like these small little margin urgent sometimes really have a big impact on the direction of policy goes so while we were going into this midterm election and you had all of these Democrats talking about how trump is a is a puppet of Vladimir Putin and you knew this wasn't true. You didn't think it was necessary to maybe go. Hey you know what this is kind of. Interfering in an election probably far worse than taking out some facebook ads were but nothing didn't feel the need to say that yeah also I I mean you mentioned this briefly but it still is just so infuriating to me going into this the game was going to be hey. The Democrats are going to try and pry more information from him to say there are risks of the Russians being out there treating cheating for trump and that I donald trump hasn't been properly punished for the extent by which he tried to derail the investigation. That's what the team Democrats wanted to team. Republicans go what we we found out that the collusion thing never existed and it seems like all the evidence behind that was fabricated so we're going to grill him on why there was a two year investigation with based on fabricated evidence the then tried to build a false a false. What's the what's the word for the undermining the investigation allegation was the proper term obstruction obstruction of justice? You're trying to get the obstruction of justice. That's what that's what this whole game is right and then he shows up and goes all right guys I'm here. I'm happy to give testimony but when it comes to what the Republican side wants to speak about that's under investigation Asian we can't look into the evidence at all right and that they didn't hold them to that car. Of what are you talking about. That is the most important part of figuring out what the fuck you were doing for for the time that you were doing well as I said at one point someone asked him. If he had read the steele dossier he wouldn't even whether he because he's fucked on that either way you read it and then well did you realize how did you not realize it was false or he straight up didn't read it because why question the evidence. My job is just here to well as the prosecutor Peter. Do you have to understand the underlying evidence yeah because at some point he said well that wasn't my job. My job was just to run the investigation but if you're running the investigation to find out if the guy colluded isn't that part of whether or not he colluded is the initial evidence of ones and one would think one would think those two things would be related all right guys. Let's take a quick second. I want to tell you about our wonderful sponsor for today's show. Our longtime sponsor and that of course is infinite C._B._D.. Infinite C._B._D.. Offers the cleanest healthiest and purest form of C._B._D.. Available lable anywhere C._B._D.. Gives you all of the benefits of marijuana without getting you hi. This is for people who aren't trying to do a drug. They just want the medicinal uses of marijuana it C._B._D.. No T._H._c. involved just the medical stuff and I recommend infant it C._d.. 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Fifteen fifteen percent off all right. Let's get back into the show. There's this weird like trickery that goes on particularly in in the media yeah. We're like you know I I know a few different people have made fun of this but the the word if true would be the disclaimer for C._N._N.. All the time so there'd be some new report and they'd go if true this is a bombshell that means that Donald Donald Trump was a partner of Adolf Hitler so technically they said if true but they're still reporting on this fake news as if it's a really big deal and then when it gets proven wrong they're like we just said if true so turned out not to be true. Okay move along but why shouldn't you have to pay some price for this. I was on Kennedy last night and we were talking about this a little bit because there was that <hes> the which you actually brought up that we never got around to talking to on a talking about on the show but the The New Yorker Franken doc in peace and so we were talking about that briefly and just talking about you know the people who got kind of accused of these things and had very little due process and I was saying with the Cavanaugh thing because someone brought up the cabinet comparison and that was bring that up and you go so cabinet forget the Christine Ford woman for a second who came and testified there were two other rape accusations against cavenaugh that have both since been demonstrably disproven like one of them like recanted and was like this was all bullshit and the other one her story fell apart and she was just like completely lying to other rape accusations that were these accusations were repeated in those Senate judiciary uh hearings they were repeated in mainstream media all over the place and no one none of the biggest champions of this story ever have to deal with that they never have to look back at that and go like Oh. You know what we were. We were definitely wrong about those two it like we falsely accused a man of being a vicious rapist. I mean even if the Christine Ford story was true. You're saying a kid forty years ago in college through a woman down on a bed you know like there's there's not saying that's okay but there's a big line between that and being a vicious rapist okay and that's what we accused him of and we were wrong. We got that wrong. That's a horrible thing to do to a amount as a horrible thing to do to a man who got a wife and daughters and friends and families hasn't peers yeah yeah who just like beers you know who doesn't but you know what I mean like but no one ever has. There's no reckoning with that. No one ever asked to go like Oh. Wow you know we got you know like it's a weird like I feel like they'll be like a correction written if someone says like he was wearing like Tan pants and it turned out they were like black pants like the next day they'll get correction action. It was black pants but no one ever has run a huge correction. Oh yes we we accused of being a vicious monster like did everything we could to ruin his life and at we were wrong about that and nothing and and it's you know it's the same same with all of this shit. There's like no ever like are we. We gotta go back and there were people. Don't forget man there. Were people who straight up. I mean actually I think it might have been in the New Yorker is one of these publications it might. I might be wrong about but where there was. A Guy who wrote that Donald Trump had been a Russian asset going back to the eighties. I mean there were there. Were these wild accusations that were made against a against trump. All of them turned out to be bullshit and as I mentioned before the head of the Senate Intelligence Committee said publicly over and over again that we have the evidence of a conspiracy and we're just waiting for Muller to bring him down because we're putting the case together right now but we've seen the evidence is just is lying just lying through his teeth and he doesn't have to resign. He doesn't have to go anywhere that by the way about the Al Franken thing. That's what pisses me off more than anything about Al Franken is that that's what it takes like like that will make you have to leave Congress doing a Honky Boob joke picture. I feel however you feel about it. It's like that for all these people who say like like just come out and lie about this stuff you know you vote for wars based on lies you fucking bankrupt the country that doesn't make you leave but a Honky boob picture up all right you gotta go can't have that. You can't have you amongst the war criminals. You're a jerk. It's it's a fucking weird. It's a weird system to say the least all right. Let's let's play the other clip that I wanted to play because to me this was this was maybe one of my favorite moments of the thing and this was a detail that I think I may have read about this at one point but I actually forgot about this detail because there really are a lot of moving pieces in this in this whole saga but I will say this is a from Jim Jordan who look. I don't know a ton about Jim Jordan or like his voting record or anything like that. I'm sure there's lots of things that I would disagree with him on and on I I I'm sure he's not a particularly great congressman but my God this guy is a fucking shark like if you were ever lying about something in a court of law there is no one you you would fear more. GotTa have grilling you then this motherfucker and the contrast by the way you pay attention to what he's saying but right away notice the contrast between how sharp ears and how old mullah's it's just it's just unbelievable but I also think he's doing doing a lot of what Robbie was pointing to kind of stalling kind of playing it up but but because either way the big thing is you don't want to be caught on the record lying because then you end up in a lot of trouble if you evade questions it's uncomfortable for an hour you gotta the deal with people like us go hayes clearly lying but as long as you don't actually verbalize and get busted an ally and in the in between those two choices you're like well either way my credibility shot either way tarnishing my legacy. I might as well just look like an asshole stall at get out of here and go home to my fucking family but and then since you're still playing for the right team theoretically you can still get jobs and work and it doesn't really matter and people go he was he's also seventy five. I don't think he's really trying to get some future big job. I think this Muller's rollers last Hurrah fucking retire so I I agree it consulting work that you know he finally gets his real nice paychecks for all the shitty will or something like that like he's he'll be taken care of. He's playing for the right team so when you get a question like India read the steele dossier or what point did you know you. Just don't want to be on the like you don't want to say hey I I knew for sure but it was at year one year you know at the one year mark and then they find some document when the reviewing and they find out that actually knew at the two two month mark and now all of a sudden you can go to jail because you were lying. You're it's it's a great point and it actually <hes> leads very nicely into what he's saying does like as an example of what you're saying right like <hes> so I know I've used this example before but it's too perfect to not use more but so James Clapper will the they'll ask him is the N._S._A.. Involved in any you know mass bulk data collection of American of unwitting American citizens and they'll say no we don't do that. I mean that's what they were doing and he lied about what is in the legal spying apparatus the biggest spying apparatus ever created by man a really consequential important lie not miss remembering or getting something wrong. He didn't know the N._S._A.. was doing that of course he knew he was the director of intelligence he knew exactly what was going on <hes> but he lied but like you said he plays for the right team. Cohen on the other hand could be like oh we we called off the deal in Moscow in January and it turns out it was July and they go completely legal business deal. You got the wrong month which both started with Jay like could have been an honest mistake but whatever you're busted your fucking lying to the F._B._i.. Or whatever you know like you'll you'll get charged is about what team you're playing for because you were playing for team trump and that gets right into the point of what Jim Jordan was getting at here so let's play that video and watch the shark at work ninety three volume on Nipson denied Nipson also falsely stated in addition nips. It omitted three times. He lied to the F._B._I.. Yet you didn't charge him with the crime. Excuse me I'm sorry. Did you say one ninety three volume one one nine three. I'm I'm sorry. Did you say we're having lobster bisque. I ordered Split Pea hilarious where he's missing line skirt and you didn't charge him with the club. I'm sorry these questions complicate. I'm confused. I'm sorry I was told I could get a pair of dry socks before the hearing began yeah. It's just the contrast between the two of them is amazing all right. Let's let's keep playing times. You pointed out in the report. Why didn't you charge them with the crime I I can't get into <hes> internal deliberations with regard who would or would not be there already why why not why can't you see this is what fucking drives me crazy right so if you ask about something something so bar theoretically by the way don't hold your fucking breath? I hope I'm pleasantly surprised but bar is now investigating the origins of the Russia investigation right supposedly doing what we would want him to do but probably nothing. Nothing will come of that because he's a deep state tool himself so if you ask a question about the origins of the Russia investigation will I can't answer that because that's being investigated well. Your investigation is closed. It's not currently being investigated so let me ask you some questions about what happened in your investigation. I can't answer about deliberations behind the scene but you can't answer about how you feel about trump tweet but you can't answer about why you decided to charge one person why there was not an equal application of the law. You know what they need. This is what would change this whole thing TV production. You know maybe we'll take my notes. Maybe they they maybe they won't they never do but go ahead. Throw is good. I want the Supreme Court there right then and there when he said something like that you go all right pause yes or no does he have to answer it or not and then let's get a ruling. It doesn't really have to be the Supreme Court. Get your degree to WHO's going to be there so when they go hey I can't answer that you pause and go. Does he have to answer it. Yes he has to answer it. Because this game aim of all I can't answer who said he can't answer. We already know that you were lying when you said that like your judgment standard for the way prosecutions work you lied about that. You're lying about all sorts of you get into this. Why can't you say what the internal discussions discussions were about like who you were going to charge who you weren't because that's a very interesting detail? Yes someone else lied to you but he wasn't on team trump and so she fucking gets he gets a free pass all right. Let's let's play this because this is actually a really the interesting point that <hes> Jim Jordan ends up making allstate. Let's remember this. Let's remember this in two thousand sixteen the F._B._i.. Did something they probably have it done before they spied on to American citizens associated with the presidential campaign pain George Papadopoulos Carter page with Carter page they went to the Fisa court they use the now famous dossier as part of the reason they were able to get the warrant and spy on Carter Page for a better part of a year with Mr Papadopoulos. They didn't go to the court they use human sources all kinds of from about the moment happened joins the trump campaign. You got all these people all around the world starting to swirl around him names like Haufer Downer Smithson Thompson meeting in Rome London all kinds of places the F._B._i.. Even sent even sent a lady posing as somebody else went by the name as return even dispatched heard the London to spy on Mr Papadopoulos in one of these meetings Mr Papadopoulos talking to a foreign diplomat and he tells the diplomat Russians have dirt on Clinton that diplomat then contacts the F._b._i.. And the F._B._I.. Investigation based on that fact he point this out on page one of the report July Thirty First Twenty sixteen the open the investigation based on that piece of information diplomat tells Papadopoulos Russians have excuse me happen tells the diplomat Russians have dirt on Clinton written diplomat tells the F._b._i.. When I'm wondering is who told Papadopoulos Audi find out it can't get into the evidentiary issue 'cause you about it? You gave us the answer page one ninety two of the report you tell us who told him Joseph Nathan Josef Mifsud Guy who told Papadopoulos the mysterious professor who lives in Rome and London works to teach in two different universities. This is the guy who told Papadopoulos. He's the guy who starts at all and when the F._B._i.. Interviews him he lies three times and yet you don't charge him with a crime you charge Rick Gates for false statements you charge Paul Manafort for false statements you charge Michael Cullen with false statements. He charged charge Michael Flynn a three star general with false statements but the guy who puts the country. This whole saga starts at all for three years. We've lived this now. He lies and you guys don't charge you and I'm curious as to why can't get into it and and it's obvious. I think that we can't get into charging decisions when the F._B._i.. Interviewed him in February F._B._i.. Interviews him in February when the special counsel's office interviewed Nipson did he lie to you guys to can't get into the interview MIFID MIFID Western intelligence Russia's intelligence can't get into that lot of things you can't get into what's interesting you can charge thirteen Russians. No one's ever heard of no one's ever seen. No no one's ever going to hear him. No one's ever GONNA see him. You can charge them. You can charge all kinds of people who are around the president with false statements but the guy who launches every the guy who puts this whole story in motion. You can't charge him. I think that's amazing. I'm not sure I agree with your characterizations. I'm reading from your report. Mifsud Toll Papadopoulos Papadopoulos tells the diplomat. The diplomat tells the F._B._I.. The F._B._I.. Investigation July thirty first two thousand sixteen and here here we are three years later July twenty nine thousand nine the country's been put through this and the central figure who launches it all lies to us and you guys don't hunting down interview again and you don't charge him with the crime and here's the good news. Here's the good news. The president was falsely accused of conspiracy the F._B._I.. Does a ten month investigation James Comey when we deposed him a year ago told us at that point they had nothing you do a twenty two month investigation of that twenty two months you find no conspiracy I see and what's the Democrats want to do. They want to keep investigating. They want to keep going. Maybe a better course of action. Maybe a better course of action is to figure out how the false accusation started. Maybe go back and actually figure out Y Joseph nipson was lying to the F._B._i.. And here's the good news is that that's exactly what bar is doing was <hes> was his point where he was going but I mean look here's the thing right as I said at the beginning. There were two conspiracies to conspiracy theories if you will forget the negative association with that word but there's two conspiracy theories that were put out there. The first one was that trump is a Russian asset that trump conspired with the Russians. It's completely fallen apart and F._B._I.. Hi investigation a two year special counsel investigation. They got nothing on that. Nothing the other conspiracy is the one we put out that this was a deep state coup attempted co and the more you hear that I mean come on. Which one do you think happened here? It's one of the two it it. It's gotta be one of the two and you listen to what what Jordan was just putting out there. I mean look at this. Why wouldn't they want to go after this guy? Why wouldn't they want to figure out what actually led to this whole thing? Where the that we put the country through this mess as there's also something crazy that I mean I've fallen news? I really follow the news. That's the first I'm hearing Allen. Yeah all the news and follow this story specifically and I did. I did read about this a while ago but I never put too much weight and who told Popadopoulos that the the Russians had dirt on the more you look into it and I did say this <hes> I did say this at the time but I've been hearing more about it today during these hearings but that whole trump tower meeting was complete setup it was a setup they said they are this dirt on Hillary Clinton they went and met with them mm-hmm and then th- this was all setup though the woman involved was in communication with democratic operatives the whole time like this was all just a Falcon setup and they they essentially got what they wanted out of it but this is this is where we are with the whole thing. It's the trump Russia collusion narrative you he would think would have to be just officially put to bed. I think the obstruction of justice narrative has to be put to bed after this sorry guys this is what you came out with and I do to some degree empathize with people who just hate trump so much and they put so much hope in this Muller Guy and this is what they got for it. You almost have to feel bad for those people. This sad showing is what this is the final you know the report didn't give them what they wanted but then they go well we'll subpoena him and will make him testify and then we'll be able to ask them anything and we'll be able to get all the dirt well here you go. This is what you got. This is what you got hope. We see him again. I hope a bar runs this whole investigation and then they realize hey. We better talk to Mueller Yeah I. I wouldn't hold your breath on that. One but I agree with you that would be that would be nice. It would be interesting to see all of this. It's it is just insane and I know you can say well. They're investigating and now we'll see what happens but the idea that we don't get after going through all this that we don't get to know like Oh okay. I WANNA see the underlying evidence I want to see what was presented to the FIS accord. I mean it's all over now right like all this stuff's over. You spied on car repairs. You spied on Popadopoulos. There's GonNa be funny at the Pfizer. Court application is like stick figures. Oh I mean like literally just nothingness. I think it's actually less substantive than stick figures it was this is fucking bullshit <unk> a steele dossier. I mean it's it's but don't but after all of this once the guys vindicated exonerated you know I know they don't Wanna use that term but okay after there's no charges brought against him and because there's insufficient evidence to bring charges let alone get a conviction. Don't don't you get to go okay well. What happened here? How did we get this whole thing started? I mean even even Muller himself said well. This was unlike like any other investigation. There was no precedent for those like okay well. What started this investigation with no president how do we how do how do you not think that should be known and you know I don't? I don't think it's going to happen. I don't think we're ever GONNA figure figure it <unk> out but it was this kind of to me you know I because I don't have any hope that that's going to happen. I take this as almost like the finale of the whole trump Russia collusion thing that. That took up so much head space and media space and column inches and Cable News time for so long and to me. This is kind of the end. This is what it all came out to be this sad old man sputtering ordering nonsense just completely unsure of himself whether it's really whether he's really this incompetent quasi senile old man or whether he's just playing and buying time or acting something up as you suggested and I tend to agree with you but either way that's what was so that's what this whole thing. I only watched. I think I watched the first hour hour plus the first one so what was the format of the second one. Why was there what with what's the deal with that is is pretty much the same format but the first one was the House Judiciary Committee in the second one was the House Intelligence Committee the House Intelligence Committee run by different chairs and stuff different shares? There's Adam Schiff was running the intelligence committee. Oh what a freak show yeah even better than Adam Schiff and then what what's his name <hes> Devon Devon Nunez is like the CO chair so then he got to go give you know so they each give their little speech but Nunez did a pretty good job of tearing into the whole thing <hes> but a lot of people are on both on both committees so it shifts King Douchen this whole thing gets he's. The Guy said we had no shift in this one jiffy swallow where the worst but the the both of them said that they we had evidence that donald trump conspired with the Russians both of them said that to their I mean the the idea that there's no punishment for that. We start doing a bit on the show at the end of shows we could start calling their offices and ask him for the evidence there another this is all over. Can I see that <hes> <hes> that evidence yeah no but then they once they're called on it and once the thing came out I mean I remember Swale was on a Bill Maher. Show it was right before it was when it was like the night that Muller announced the the investigation was wrapping up and that there would be no further indictments and if you remember if you can put yourself back in that time space two days earlier. Maybe the former head of the C._I._A.. John Brennan Annan guilty of treason arming al-Qaeda. He said there were GonNa be more indictments that you were going to see Don Jr. go to jail. You'RE GONNA see trump's family. Get indicted. You're gonNA see trump indicted. They were so everybody so when it came out that there were no further indictments you hadn't hadn't yet heard you know no collusion or conspiracy or any of that but it was like Oh wait what this already doesn't sound right and so and Bill Maher said something like you know swallow who is one of the guys who was like saying we we we have the evidence of this he said did we put too much faith in Muller like what what do you mean no more indictments. I thought all of trump's family and I thought they were all going down and swallow goes well I. I don't need indictments to know what I've seen seen in plain sight. I've seen you know I all you need is a twitter account to know there was collusion and he falls right back onto this just bullshit talking point and it's like Oh okay I can see how much the public like that guy for. How long is presidential campaign last yeah he already? I had to drop out there is still seventy five people running for the Democratic nomination and he already had to bow. Here's the first one to drop right. I believe so I don't know I think so I think like when Marianne Williamson is still in there and her fucking budget plan John is more crystals in the White House. That's a you know you did a bad job and I'm not even familiar with that. She's like the new age hustling power crystals that give you strength. I don't know if they put them in the White House. They make better decisions. I'll honest is probably a better budget than the one that <hes> just past might not so I can't I I'm not completely against it. Bring better fives the White House with ice crystals hoops. I'll be honest. I'm almost sold. She almost has if tolsey drops out she might be. The Democrat uh-huh yeah woohoo crystal girl doesn't seem to have much of an opinion on war but <hes> you know she's better than the rest all right. I think we can leave the episode there. I wanted to come in to talk about this. This seem to me to be you know I. I know we've talked about this story a lot not <hes> but I think it's justified. I I really think this is like one of the biggest historical events that I've lived through in my life. I think almost like up there with nine. Eleven eleven the war in Iraq like just the big shit that I've lived through my life even Clinton being impeached. I mean Clinton being impeach was nothing compared to this. This was a clear attempted coup by deep upstate unelected bureaucrats and spies to get rid of a guy to unseat a duly elected president because quite simply. He wasn't one of the chosen ones. You know. That's what it's all about. It's that he wasn't one of the guys that we told you you could choose from. He was like so funny how you see right now. How a Beta rourke his campaign is completely tanked and he just sucks? He's home after that first debate he's pathetic and he's just just and he's weird. There's nothing nothing about him like he's a very strange person and petit remember back just a few months ago when the media just decided he was the Guy Oh my God is charisma. There's these funny like montages you can find on Youtube of the mainstream media just swooning over debatable Royale Mike this savior. He's your option and then like everyone's can no. We don't like this guy at all and they're like okay. Well Kamala Harris were Mayor Pete. These are your options. You like but stuff we gotta Mayor Pete Butts What about here and it's like this is how the system works. They give you who your options are and then you do get democracy within those options that we chose you but trump wasn't one of the options and we didn't choose him and since the American people chose him and he seems to be uncontrollable or at least they were were scared of them. They <hes> they they were like no we're going to we're going to correct that for you. The other part that I kind of goes unmentioned so fine they try and unseat the guy by saying he's guilty of collusion and then we can get rid of him but through the entire two year stretch you are eroding his political capital to actually now in your theoretical model of representative democracy which I don't agree with and I know doesn't exist but as a theoretical model people get to vote who they want to be in office and then they hope that they're going to go forward and actually do the things that they promised to get done. Things like building. Wall things like maybe not fighting. Wherever the fuck you claim you're going to go out and do you make your your grand claims now all of a sudden for two years the media's able to say hey? This guy is an agent of the Russians it really hinders your ability to try and get the votes. You need to move things forward. Yes so for two years you rob the American people of the president that they voted for and you didn't allow him to do any of the things that he might have been able to accomplish now. What if any of those things been good? I don't think so oh but I'm just saying in your theoretical model of representative democracy. It's pretty important that when a guy gets to office he can do his job not spend two years with some false fucking investigation that was completely built a nonsense yeah and you you know to your point and I think you make a really good point and to that point. It got brought up several times again the quote of Donald Trump's that was in the Mueller investigation which was that he said he said I'm fucked when when when he found out there was a special counsel yeah that was going to be investigating them and people you know people on the Democrats like to use this as evidence. I guess if you can assume this was evidence that why was he so scared. You know what what do you have to be afraid of. If you've got nothing to hide it's like well. I mean he clearly at this point you can see wasn't conspiring the Russian so it's crazy that you're still holding onto that goes no actually think there was a lot of wisdom which is <hes> the Donald Trump. That's that's a perfect microcosm of Donald Trump. He said something crass and simple and bold that turned out to have a lot of wisdom in it and he said No. I'm fucked and he was and and he was right and you know more important than his agenda and specifically when you're talking about his agenda at least what is stated agenda was and in my humble opinion what this whole thing was about. Is that what he ran on was. Hey you know that video of Wesley Clark where he's talking about all the wars. We're going to go fight and how we've already knocked a lot of them on the list. He was like I'm not for this. I don't like this plan. I don't WanNa keep fighting goes what if we were to work with Russia to defeat Isis in Syria and then get the hell out of there what if we weren't trying to knock off all of it you know every leader who's sympathetic to Russia to establish this this world order and further further strengthen our empire and spent trillions of dollars and thousands of American lives not to mention hundreds of thousands of not millions of of Muslim lives. Let's stop that. This is a bad deal. Let's work with Russia. That's what he ran on now whether he would ever done that or not but they boxed him into a corner where he couldn't do that. You couldn't really work with I mean even if you just had a summit with Putin and said a few nice things it was treason treasonous to quote wrote John Brennan so we couldn't do any he couldn't really work with Russia in a meaningful way because that would have been proof look at it and now he signs this deal with Russia so so that they did it and they won trump was right he was fucked and above that above trump's own agenda what I think this cost the country and honestly if he had followed through with that agenda that would have been the biggest thing of all but second to that what I think it costs the country is that when Donald Trump got elected. It should have been a moment for all of us for everybody who cares about this country who care who's in the space of commenting on politics fix for Democrats Republicans Independents Greens commies Nazis Libertarians. Whoever the fuck you are for everybody? It should have been a moment to go. Whoa what's going on here like let's have a reset what the fuck just happened? Okay the Republicans should have been like wow we were ignoring issues that are voting base really cared about. I mean we chose these two guys you know Marco Rubio and Jeb Bush to battle it out. No one even liked them and they love this guy. WHO's talking about completely different issues? Whoa we're not representing our people for the Democrats to go holy Shit? We Thought Hillary Clinton should win. Forty nine states against Donald Trump and she's lost cost. What are we missing? The mainstream media should have said holy crap. I mean these people are really angry at us but we're supposed to be championing them. Why why are we rightly should have been this whole reset where everybody evaluated everything and said hey what's going going on here? What what the Hell is going on your? Let's think this through and if Donald Trump is so dangerous and so bad well. Let's calibrate so that the country doesn't go off the cliff here with with craziness okay like there should have been this whole moment moment and instead everyone went Nah. They're racist and Putin did it and it it took away this moment that should have followed Donald Trump and the reason I say it is because I <hes> I think if you're worried about the direction the country's going in if you don't listen to the advice of the Donald trump correction believe me. The next guy is going to be a lot worse than trump you're going to get you're GONNA get another. You're you're going to get an actual extremist. You're going to get what you project onto Donald Trump. You might actually get that one day. You know it's like what I say. Within about Antifa all the time you talk about how there's this fascist you know like a white supremacist movement in the country and you're almost it's like well. We'll keep doing what you're doing and there might actually be one day and then when you see it you'll be like oh wow there really wasn't one before turns out. Charlottesville wasn't that big of a deal but it it could be in the future so this story on for for many different levels levels is is a really big deal and I I gotta say like it's even for me for somebody. Who if I do say so myself I gotTa say I think I've gotten the story pretty much right from the beginning most insistent motherfucking out well? That's that's a given the most consistent motherfucker you know <hes> please get my title proper <hes> but even for somebody who's gotten on this has been pretty accurate. I think on what I thought this whole thing was but it's amazing to see it. Turn into this you know to go from trump Russia collusion twenty four seven. He's a puppet of the Russians he's been what he's doing Putin's bidding and all these stories and to see it end with this pathetic showing by Muller just being grilled and refusing to answer questions and we all know why he's refusing to answer the questions because if he did did he would be an admission of itself. This is where we end. It's it's been an entertaining ride. It's been a hell of a story. It's it's interesting to live through moments like this where you're like this really is history story and when I say this historical in the same way that you know if I if I think like five to six just moments that have lived through in my life and my thirty six years on this planet I really do think this is up there as one of the biggest stories in modern American history. It's like nine eleven a huge won. The war in Iraq was a huge one. <hes> Barack Obama getting elected like you know there's like different things but this was a the deep state targeting a guy who is who was at the time riding his way toward the Republican nomination and deciding. We're going to spy on him. We're going to plant evidence. We're going to falsely accuse him of this and ultimately it became their insurance policy when he got in their words not mine. I'm not making up some conspiracy. This is what they've already told you you. All you have to do is listen to their words. Listen to the words of.

DONALD DONALD TRUMP Muller Muller muller special counsel president prosecutor Muller Muller Russia justice department America Muller Muller Director Robert Mueller trump Muller Subsequent Muller Zone Hillary Clinton facebook Muller Investigation
#298 Michael Muller

First Class Fatherhood

26:50 min | 8 months ago

#298 Michael Muller

"Now the lace welcome to first glass fatherhood. Welcome everybody to ninety eight of the PODCAST. I am happy as always to be here with you stopping by if this is your first time. Listening to the PODCAST. Please get over there. In Baghdad subscribe button. You do not want to miss all the action. That's coming your way right here on. I last fatherhood all right as I've got the Great Gatsby you guys today. He is a first class father and a world class photographer. Michael Muller joins me today and he has photographed all of the biggest Hollywood celebrities. He is one of the top key art photographers in the industry. He's worked on such films as the avengers captain. America iron man spider man and so many others but it is his pictures of sharks. That are most impressive oppressive. Nobody Photograph Sharks Michael Muller. He has got a phenomenal book available dedicated to his short photos. I will include a link description of today's podcast episode. If you'd like to check it out Michael Muller will be here with me in just a few minutes. Please stick around at the view and just as the rest of the world. I was shocked to learn of the death of Kobe. Bryant who died in a helicopter crash over the weekend alongside his thirteen year old daughter. I reached out several times to try to get Kobe Bryant on the podcast here. He was a first-class father. All the way my thoughts and prayers are with the Bryant family and now the NFL has invited me back the super bowl media data interview the players and coaches of super bowl fifty four between the Kansas City chiefs and the San Francisco Forty niners. I'm curious curious to see what the tone is going to be down there in Miami amongst the players on the heels of this devastating tragedy in the sports world make sure you follow me on Instagram at Alec Underscore Laser on Facebook Book Alec Lace. I will be live streaming from the field as I asked the players about fatherhood and family life last year. I had the honor of interviewing Tom. Brady and Bill Belichick. It's so many others. It was an incredible experience for me and it really helped boost the popularity of the podcast. Here I will be releasing my Super Bowl Media Day special edition episode on Friday so you can hear all the soundbites before the big game on Super Bowl Sunday. Joining me on the PODCAST. Wednesday will be built Klein who along with his wife. Jennifer Arnold have just crushed the world of reality. TV with their shoulder with a little couple on TLC. Don't miss out on that and later this week on instagram. I will be revealing the guests from my three hundredth episode of I last fatherhood. So make sure you lock it into my instagram Graham account at Alex as for that special announcement and please help me spread the word about this podcast. Every father in your neighborhood or in your contact list let them know about the show that celebrates fatherhood family life fatherhood rocks family values rule and every day is father's Day right here with me and I'm going to be right back with world class photographer. Michael Muller I'm Alex Lace and you're listening to First-class Fatherhood nothing beats an American flag maiden USA right well how about an American flag made in the USA by veterans out of duty warned fatigues from all branches in the military that is exactly what you get with combat flags combat flags are handcrafted from duty wore fatigues and offer a tangible piece of freedom. To the American people each flag is accompanied by professionally designed and printed card that tells the story of service nervous of a soldier marine airmen sailor Costa wore fatigues. Used to make the flag they are the real deal dad. So what are you waiting for. VISIT COMBAT FLAGS DOT com and use the Promo code hold. Father and I love his father who listeners. We'll save ten percent off. Their purchase veteran owned American made combat flags dot Com Promo Code. Father all right so joining me now first class father. Michael Muller Welcome to first-class Glass. Fatherhood thank you nice to meet you out. I'll let's start right here. How many kids you have? And how old are they. I have three daughters The oldest is fifteen and a half and I know the half is getting drivers Irvine which is and then I have twin girls that are twelve and a half the three daughters what type of boss sports activities that are girls into really really active. They do a volleyball. big-time arena. Either a drought relief so volleyball junior lifeguards during the summer soccer Dri Surfing into gymnastics. So much anymore but in a Now okay wow that's very cool all right if you could just please take a minute here. Hit My listeners with a little bit about your background what you do you know I am A. I'm a professional photographer. Taking photos for thirty five years now started fifty shooting snowboarding rock and roll all with somebody. I started other shit like fifty Muthu away when it was sort of turned my lynch towards fashion celebrities celebrities But I have shot at all last thirty five years. Sports petitions will charkes Hannibal's the UN global advocate. What lot of charity work children's hospitals refugee work with in I started directing maybe seven eight years ago in your arm for years ago to virtual reality about to ooh released It's the blueprint. VR TEN PERC series. That water break. What do you think yeah very cool? Yeah very impressive career Michael. About how old are you when you first became a dad and had to becoming a father kind of change your perspective on life. I arosa about thirty five years old. I had Clara You know we would have to relents a couple years years older than me. It sort of pretty quick to start. It's both knew each other soulmate. That's where I you know I'd like my hurt by gears recruits. Happy my sister when they were in their twenties Abraham. It was a good father if I had kids twenties Atkins in their twenties any experience Leith richer sure a lot of work myself graduating have kids which works contributor with kids but yeah started invited us to actually push Clara spoiler. Look people say literally hund- each it's got lent insurer itself surgically perception actually changed. It's amazing yeah very cool and you know photography obviously major part of your world and that's one thing that has changed so drastically from when I was a kid my mother other with the obviously she would always make the phone. Rabat's my father had the camera as if he was on the sideline at the Super Bowl. That thing was huge now today. We're all we're we. I gotta be honest says a parent you know as a dad. We love to take a lot of pictures. Minor so disorganized. Everything's in the cloud you as a professional photographer. How do you go about as a dad taking pictures and storing them yourself? Yeah You know one of the things I do is for sure. Were have a lot of these Hard drives have all of my photos backed up on actually triplets I have a set here in my office than I have another set off site because this house would've burned down all those are organized But since I have a backup. That's offsite that's how you say or on a cloud say happier images of cloud. Deputy have it started to places. You know I try not to use my phone with. I actually tried to use a camera when taking pictures. Look look at guilty as charged taking photos of my kids. My family with the phones as far as photo albums go my wife literally puts together at the most amazing hardcover books at believe with apple us. We just did it for Christmas. Each of the girls like their whole lives photos and it was like this thick hardcover in. It's not much leaving eighty bucks or some pages really cool way of making photo albums really great gift idea for your wife. Surly wanders out there. Listening is putting together like a or cover booklet. Allow him for your wife for her birthday or Christmas is those are the gifts Heart mark took the time to do much more than a piece of jewelry. Here watchers. Yeah I love that Mike and you know what that is one of the things we used to. I used to carry photos in my wallet. I mean people used to show people the photo albums when they came over and that stuff. I missed that kind of stuff when it does come to the actual photography because it seems like we never really sharp pictures except on social media now and you know one of the Su photography as a career. Many many dads have kids out. There were parents of kids out. Yeah there are interested in photography. What would you suggest for? Them is the best route to pursue in order to get a career in photography. Today I think like any art form. Photography's incredibly challenging highly competitive Especially when we started you had to shoot you yourself you will be directly on wall of filming each each image costs about two three dollars to dare to Viterbo food unit process. It really took the time when you took a photo because it costs money might today like chicken chicken Chiu which is unfortunate. I mean it's great that but people who take time really great Way Hopefully get lucky. I personally did not go to I went to Otis Parsons listens. Forwards Lispier Guy Advanced placement is of Ray snowboarded pitchers and Internet Junior In in that one semester this guy asked what a blade structures. What do I need a diploma for to show this to do album cover? And they were like no. Leave that if you teach so I said okay well at the time she three or four roles today. Would you have to pay for and I started testing models. Got Paint them as they were fifty a roll one hundred walled train out and filled learning as I got paid to learn considered Adrien in. I've had numerous numerous students. Leaving Saturdays. Art Colleges could be the DESISTI. They're like we were working with you to three. Didn't four years college Taylor's three hundred thousand dollars in student loans so you know but now on with digital unite watched last year's these young kids that'd be jobs for you know which is rape for them but safety experienced so hard workers you know they crumble fresh what I tell students the chew chew chew chew shooting every day she you know she loved escape. What each it's Edmund? If getting ready to horses to document he really got to be the stinky the actual photos. There's so much that goes into a network Beaten glades Chilean. Were getting your flip the war and taking taking it. Have you work closely at the security at the job. Yeah very well said in of course as father's others as parents we try to get these family pictures and usually we always have the one child that never Cooperates during the photo you. You've got so much experience shooting. Both of you know kids people as well as animals which which one is harder or which one do you prefer how. What is the big difference? He's shooting animals and then shooting people. This is my kids. Still the Tarver's rural a careless. Eight so I feel all all of your listeners out. There doesn't work either so I would definitely say kids in south With that said I love should be the animals I loved. You know I always do personal projects curve. It's actually how short started because completes there's no votive in me Sort of wanting to raise the bar try to raise the bar cheapens raised. There haven't been done before before. I do not spend any time online looking another photography one because of time about working to create. Don't don't be spied rain creativity. So that's what I do that but I love to thirty five WTMA. I've ever woken up. I gotta go to work today. Is Priced priced instance. Welker jobs and that its life is short. Life is so short so really lead. Follow your treats. Don't fall dollars Find Join your spirits here. This is short sleep. Yeah great advice right there Mike Glenn and breath why is first class fatherhood. Climbing to the top of the podcasting watch listened to a dance President Dana White legendary New York City radio host. Greg teat the Navy Seal David Robinson have to say about the podcast. What a cool? PODCAST is one of the coolest ones I've ever did in Grad seriously. I mean what a cool podcast concept up and I I love it good for you. Man continued success. Dude I love this podcast. You're questions are phenomenal growth to normal. I'm really happy and I can tell you. Honestly a proud of your part of thanks for having me on thank you out and God bless you and what you're doing keep up I think the Compiling this many fathers and this much great information is going to be Invaluable in so many ways so I wish alabaster. So let's go. We are not babysitters we have fathers. And we're not just fathers. We are first class fathers subscribed to first-class Fatherhood today. All right guys many of you have hit me up saying that you would like to start your own podcast than I am telling you right now. Anchor is the easiest easiest way to get this done number one. It's free. I have never paid a dime to publish any of my podcasts. And their creation tools. Allow you to record and edit right from your phone or your computer anchored those all the distribution as well so it can be heard on spotify apple podcasts and many more also you can make money with no minimum listenership. It's everything you I need to make a podcast in one place. What are you waiting for? Download the free anchor APP today or go to anchor dot. FM to get started also to let me rain back into you is a data you for a second. What type of disciplinarian are you as a father you I know? Do you have three girls. I mean I'm definitely a little different when it comes to my my youngest daughter than I am with my three boys so what's happening disciplinary you. When it comes to being a dad spanker timeout guy? Out You yeah you know. There's a total different thing comedy. David listening don't have but I know there's different fathers their sons and fathers their daughters. What I hear there are a lot harder of their sons? Their daughters daughters. Give us rapper. Their fingers so to speak. I hear You know read take little. I came up with the speak. Either the paddles belts acura world BE GROWING UP. I do not take that approach to disciplinary I disciplined my kids with especially nowadays the phone. Because there's not a lot of leverage to have Rickett my kids but you take away. Their Tonics United gets leveraged. So that is a great tool. It's almost like we gave the votes so that we could take the way literally I I actually do hate the push. Turn it off. I would think it's closer together as a people we think it's actually separated. People go out and see people looking at each other concerts there foods. anyways that's another topic but When I do what I did do we try to control your kid? Or the more I try to tourniquet rebuil- the more they're going to want to push their will so I was like if I'm like that with daughter she's going to be outside excited with the quarterback. Do what I don't want her to be doing. So I do not shave or yell. Kids throughout throughout their They've done something he's with a fact that is probably as powerful and they can say debris daughters could Crushes that crushes wasn't duty spank you. I spent a lot of time with my kids. Had to two heads of studios. Toby claims six months. They were their second marriage with their starting. Their new lease they said make went missing work. It wasn't their kids who don't make that same mistake high in I really. That really wasn't aided with eat. So for a eight with rejab travel. Hope take my kids to score tickets. I pretty much every AIDS take take my daughter's sharp expeditions. Where just be girls and I talked with him today? Is that right fifteen and a half old written in tweets talking about which they hit that thirteen fourteen inch Brooke. They'd be completely different people socializing in the play it all that what I don't get they don't get the door shutter actually talk with Faith tricky. Things things that are really white on a lot of kids to their parents about hundred tells me a lot of fritter away because it appears to be friends will look beaches like oh not not extreme disciplinarian. That's what I WANNA be outside. The middle daughter's redact the same time but one happy a trustee relationship with communication is key. So we know what's going on with life is not the worst. You'll put that time in the beginning. It's difficult older relationship and it's very important. You say one of the things I talk about a lot on my show is is the fatherless crisis that we have going on in our country far too many kids are growing up without a father in their life and I think we see. The results of that are just devastating. All over our community so I I love what you say. They're about being involved in being president. We wanted to ask you. How since being that? Have you taken on any less dangerous roles as far as shooting shooting with the sharks or getting in there. And do you do you. Have you changed the way that you go about your job to be done. I mean no but yeah little I mean I. I don't in fact daughters would be clarence. Four great white experience started two years old indicates watching the out of the cage with great whites. It said were ever I. I don't think you against increase scarce that don like okay. This is no matter what you see the happens outside the kids. Don't worry we got it under control which we did. But I don't with with that said because light to be much. Were like the lead in view of the PAN attacked by. I don't take unnecessary. Risks the opposite of the dairy Gig Risk Assessment Guy Like I've never I never parachute sort of wanted to but not like I don't want to joke out of a good way to Europe. Only only not working I'm GONNA slap in the grounded twenty-six this last twenty seconds it's really So I have a bungee jumped off bridges. I don't risk up to you it. It's extremely risky. Sharks away it to me. It's not a lot of food. Sweet like Laird Hamilton Servicing tweets like Do what he does yet. Jimmy clients on the free clips. The he has not willing forty but I appreciate what they do. There's fields lights. Thousands Hours Pass Swamp Suchart. So it's this to do what I do. Which is why do you have to hurt? It hurt like anything just like the job. Experience is very cool speaking. What about doing it? What what can we just hit the New Year a lot of people which involve resolutions and goals plans? What kind of goals or plans to help yourself here for the year future new decade? Ah I have a really good theory to my gut. which is what I always feel by twenty twenty reason year so far? It has a big believer investigating people recipe once you visualize what you issue reality. If you think that's GonNa be that year. Yeah you have a bad bad year Willie seed manifested positive. You're going to have positive things is just. It's a powerful tool we have. I think we Abreu's don't appreciate the power of might perception so I take twenty twenty. I don't fully make resolutions every day. We wake up Choice to how we live our lives. you know what one thing I've done recently. Is I stopped eating. Meat is a really livestock is causing Thirty six forty percent of the climate. You're prices. We have radios due to ice hockey may saw that movie gave Chaves or the move to try it for. I have less Ensure enough ideas like so. That was what they really started to ninety. What planet to rear so things like that? which is something we all do like Australia with? What is this we need to as people really start making huge changes his rear facing serious problems right gnaws limitless theses casings? So we all need to speak. Jesus were if our kids. Their kids are going to have. Yeah I said there's a two because it's like before we can go about changing the world. We gotTA change ourselves first. We got a lead ourselves because some people want to change the planet and they got their whole life is in disorder. So it's like really leading yourself first before we start making those changes kate. Yeah well that's how you change created by changing. That's how we all right last thing. I WanNa hit you with here. I love to ask all the data. Get on the PODCAST. What type of advice do you have in the new dad or for that about to be father? WHO's out there listening? You know the first thing I would say is savor every Because you'll hear it goes way. It goes so fast like you late. If you're like what we got kids tent. It goes really fast. Don't miss other people's Experiences like oh the twos are going to be horrible. You're going to have your own experience and so enjoy every moment of it because it goes fast. Just try to be as president. You give your kid. If not an photo hotel him they watch what we do not always say they don't miss a beat. The kids look around watching all so if you teach your kids are sick without will debut on your lap. Be With that kid. Connect with that. It's the most amazing experience of your life. I in your neck. It's is the lady so just recognized. Add why does that is a big thing response to the game. Yeah very well said I love. The message has been an honor for me. I'm Michael Muller you are in first place father all the way and thank you so much for giving me a few minutes of your time on First-class Fatherhood thank you. Atika could happy to your to your all your listeners out out there breakdowns. Uh Back to wrap things up here. Firstly fatherhood I gotta give a special thank you once against Michael Muller for giving me a few minutes of his time here. That was so cool. Please let me up on twitter. Guys that on instagram. Let me know what you're talking about. Today's episode always loved to read the feedback. Make sure you are locking into to my instagram or my facebook account Alex Underscore Lace or just Alec Lace on facebook. I will be live streaming from the field media. Day Down in Miami for Super Bowl. Fifty fifty four interviewing the players and the coaches about fatherhood and family life for the podcast. You're don't miss out on that it's going to be special. That's got you guys right now on Alex. Thank you for listening to the first place. Please remember guys. We're not babysitters we our fathers. And we're not just fathers we are I last fathers so sir. I opened my eyes.

Michael Muller president Kobe Bryant facebook sharks Miami Alex Lace Alec Lace Mike Glenn avengers David Robinson apple Baghdad TLC Tom Kansas City chiefs America NFL
AEE 1243: Less Flashy But More Useful English Vocabulary to Spark Connection

All Ears English Podcast | Real English Vocabulary | Conversation | American Culture

16:40 min | 1 year ago

AEE 1243: Less Flashy But More Useful English Vocabulary to Spark Connection

"This is an English podcast episode one thousand two hundred forty three less flashy but more useful English vocabulary to spark connection welcome to the all ears English podcast download more than one hundred thirty million times we believe in connection sure here we go so this is from Muller Muller six says I was wondering if you could possibly discuss the phrase singlish dot com slash subscribe today we bring you two very short and similar sounding uses but you'll quickly see how different they are but how useful they can be when it comes to commenting and connecting in English a good chocolate chip cookie in front of you it's hard to resist for me that's ice cream over the weekend I had a little bit of Ben and Jerry's chocolate with chocolate Brownie which was under guys if you haven't yet you need to hit subscribe on your podcast player right because if you don't hit subscribe you might Miss Hey Lindsay how's it going Yeah Michelle things are good I'm thankful to be on the microphone as always and it's a sunny day one tiny word changes the entire meaning of an expression rate so we're going to go over one really good example today because we have a listener question subscribe on your podcast player if you are a regular listener or you want to become one awesome yeah definitely definitely okay Lindsey so could you read this question for us food and I loved it because I love chocolate chip cookies they're my favorite but you know so much careening healthy I mean so much for that but hey when you get we I was awesome you and you just either an guys you wouldn't have known about that if you weren't subscribe to the podcast so make sure you hit from Los Angeles and New York City U S A and to get weekly transcripts delivered to your email inbox go to all one yeah I'm glad that our listeners here is really listening to English so closely to hear these two different phrases and just just little things little changes that are made that we do need to start involves this short little as so much for so we're going to do that in just a second yeah I'm excited for this one this is a really really good question I had a lot of fun with this through more than one okay whatever his guys so sometimes so much for I always get confused by its meaning like this one that I saw on a TV show and this one so much ass attention to I mean this is great guys right right yeah for sure okay so we're GONNA get into the listener email it listener question just a second but before that we have a quick reminder really good episodes right Lindsay yeah exactly or special announcements right any special things were doing last month we did a fun web class right okay the the one from the TV show I think it's the one down it says help seemed like it was coming question still in La that's good oh my gosh though I just the best chocolate chip cookie though it was huge I can't always be around if you so much as breathe my name who I will come for you or something like that right okay so those were just everybody back to camp are packed so much for my gps and my satellite phone or what's the other one lindsay okay or number two I will never been in you and even though it can be confusing but guys we're going to clear up for today and I mean I think that these are both really useful little phrases I never thought about that good and yeah so much for that healthy waistline but who cares street it's one desert yeah yeah yeah for me just one samples that this listener wrote in that she was here she was confused about the use of what are the phrases again Michelle so much and so much as yeah because they are fairly similar right there really similar so you might think oh well they're the same right or you know they're probably roughly the same 'cause sometimes you know you never know sometimes ah yeah yeah I guess it was listed below or something on messed up but that's okay so like it's just like help it seemed like it was coming from around here didn't it everybody went back to they were similar or not because I don't think about the words I don't think so much for so much as I think about the overall meaning right as a chunk so until now would just be that they're pretty much the same thing you guys will write in and it's like Oh yeah they're the same and then with this one is just one tiny word and we're going to tell you it's different right so tags that it makes sense as a native speaker that you wouldn't think about them being similar Michelle so that's where we want you guys to start moving towards is using things in context and Learning Kayak so they don't say we're not getting things confused yet it's just the difference of a few prepositions but they're very different right right right so let's go over them so let's start with so much for okay so there are a couple of definitions on wine but the best way that I can explain it is that it means well I guess that's over or well I guess that's not happening I like that yeah so like in the beginning of the episode I said that eight a huge chocolate chip cookie I wouldn't have even placed them in the same category but they are because they both use the same to first words right Lindsay so much blank yeah they're using such different then I said so much for eating healthy so I'm basically saying here I guess I'm done with eating healthy it's it has a sense of giving up on something but not right thing from around here did everybody back to camp are packs so much for my gps in my satellite phone. Okay yeah so I don't know where the where this is Hersher so here's one guys I thought we were meeting on Tuesday but he said he can't so much for trying to make plans with him he always cancels laws India's sense of like giving up on something I love that and in the transcript example for our listeners they pointed out this phrase help it seemed like it was early in a sad way it's just kind of making a statement it can be often used to make fun of yourself right you're making fun of yourself logo so much for my deep throwing up your arms it's not happening right I love it I love it so is this always used in kind of a humorous I would say ah yes right right and you know it might not be it might not work in every context to just replace even so much as right but we're on some of the the TV show where where yeah but but yeah I can't tell white what's going on here because I don't know what we're listening to or the context but it seems here that me right there's so much for my gps on my satellite phone right right right exactly so Lindsey do we have a couple of other examples we can use yes then I'm sure Michelle do you think we've done any episodes on the word even I suppose we probably have right away you probably have guys you have to put that into the search bar yeah I didn't I didn't right this must be from some TV show or movie or something that our listener had a transcript four so that is for that is from another show but yeah that's a good example in context they give up right I give them making plans with him it's kind of like the feeling of throwing up your arms right so much for this here's to a completely different meaning different phrase which is so much as so much I okay so dictionaries define this as even the word even the one up specifically but we must have yeah go over guys to all yours English dot com forward slash episodes and type that into the search bar see if you can find an episode on that to make sure be quiet if I hear so much as a peep from you you will not get any dessert oh that's so mean a peep that's fun you even though I can't always be around if you so much as breathe my name dot right so here you could replace the words the replaced so much right I love that one oh man did your parents discipline you that way they held back desert no did yours no I don't taste of an olive on pizza I get upset right right right that's actually a completely true statement from you hit all of Oh who hates all no word I think that's a good bonus word what Pete it's a good bonus word yeah pete me a sound like a tiny sound like a sound that house would make a squeak right right Eh you're giving instructions on the first day of class and you are very strict Lindsey oh my gosh I can't imagine it I can't imagine it all right there will be new his way and I like to keep it a little bit focused for today so we're going to stick with that Lindsay what was the next phrase that we're GonNa talk about okay so guys now we're going to switch talking when I'm writing on the board if I hear so much as one word you will be sent to the principal's office okay I understand can we talk I and I just said you know five chocolate chip cookies right right exactly so it can be used in kind of a fun way but yeah it is that sense of I like how you put yeah that's a that's a funny image and so true Yep throwing up your arms or another one you could say oh my gosh I can't believe it's already three. Am I have to get up at seven so much the packs were gone and they contained the GPS and the satellite phone so maybe the person was saying oh I guess we don't have those anymore like I'm giving up we don't have it funny kind of way not find funny if she heard Yeah I love that and again we said throwing up our arms and giving up on something so perfect those are great examples I love it as in like a lightweight a lot of the time a lot I mean yeah I'm not GonNa say it's always Doosan humorous or sarcastic way but I mean that's kind of the way that here so much as again we said earlier Michelle that this can be replaced with even right yeah if I even hear one word for I yeah exactly it would be now exactly so let's do a role play Machel's who can show our listeners and context here so they can start using this all right let's do it so

Muller Muller Hersher Michelle Machel
The Mueller Report - Pt. 9

Mueller, She Wrote

1:09:39 hr | 1 year ago

The Mueller Report - Pt. 9

"Thanks to Ziprecruiter for Supporting Muller. She wrote hiring is challenging but there's one place you can go or hiring a simple fast and smart a place where growing businesses connect to qualified candidates that place is ziprecruiter dot com slash A._G.. So to be clear Mr Trump has financial relationships with any Russian oligarchs. That's that's obviously with positions. I'm not aware all any of those activities are have been called a surrogate at the time material and that campaign and I didn't have I have communications at the lodge or do I have to get involved with Putin for have nothing to do with never spoken to him. I don't know anything about him other than he will respect me Russia. If you're listening I hope you're able to find the thirty thousand emails that are missing so it is political your Communist. I know Mr Green. Communism is just a red herring like all members of the oldest profession. I'm a capitalist hello and welcome to Miller she wrote and our ongoing special coverage of the redacted Muller Report Court today we are covering volume one section five prosecution and declaration decisions pages one hundred seventy four through one ninety nine and today with me <hes> to help me out here is ju- Lisa Johnson Hello. Hey guys. How's it going? It's getting inbetween sicknesses but I feel just well enough to be here. This is perfect so you might have noticed. There's probably a little bit of a difference between the way we sound right now and that's because we are in Philadelphia. We just finished our live show last night. Were getting ready for meet-and-greet tonight. All kinds of crazy news is breaking today but we wanted to get this part of the park nine. This is the final part of volume one of the Muller report because next week on Wednesday muller testifies and then we start volume volume to all about obstruction. I'm so excited for that. The timing is uncanny yeah. It's great so if you hear echo or we don't sound like we're in a a soundproofed studio. It's because we're not so I just wanted to let you know that that's what's going on today but we felt it very important to get this part out to you before he testified so we can start the obstruction volume <hes> the day after he testifies because I think most of it's going to be people specifically. Ask Him about specific instances of obstruction of justice and to break them down and you know because I think that's the only way we can get him to talk absolutely yeah. It should like lineup pretty closely. It should be fun well. I don't know funds the right word. Well you know fun. Considering this is what we do and we're comedian so it's like we're trying to just liberty by slash fun for us. With all things considered we'd rather he not be president and all these things but here we if all the things that could go down should go down. It's this and so we hope for us in the apocalypse. I think we'll find a way to have fun with with it. I think you're right. I think you're right. We'll have just make cockroach jokes or something right. It'll be there so yes we're today. We're one page one seventy four through one ninety nine Muller explains here that he's was authorized to prosecute federal federal crimes and in deciding whether to exercise it's prosecutorial authority the Office Muller was guided by the principles of Federal Prosecution set forth and the Justice Manual so here's basically muller saying at a very fancy way here's the laws and if I want to use the laws I have to follow the laws so thank you <hes> as discussed earlier in the report that means they would need evidence sufficient to obtain and sustain a conviction and if they had that they considered whether it would serve a substantial a substantial federal interest or whether the individuals were subject to effective prosecution in other jurisdictions <hes> and if there was an adequate non-criminal alternative to prosecution ladder requirements. They're EH impeachment yeah. There's a lot of rules for rules. Yes he then summarized that based on those rules they charged two sets of Russian nationals and then a redaction for harm arm to an ongoing matter involving the Russian hacks which is probably Roger Stone or Julian assange both <hes> and they also determined that the contacts between trump and Russia did not involve the Commission of a crime and where it was criminal as in the case ace of campaign finance commissions they did not have sufficient evidence to obtain sustain a criminal conviction so he right there says there was some criminal activity here but I just did not have sufficient evidence to obtain and sustain he probably could have obtained a criminal conviction but may not have been able to sustain it on appeal. That's fair yeah. He's thinking about the whole process and I hate that we have to almost give these people credit for climbing well enough right or dumb enough enough or they have the right lawyer lawyer who knew the law yeah exactly so <hes> Finally Muller concludes that the rules supporting charging certain individuals with lying or otherwise obstructing the investigation or parallel congressional investigations so yes so he he was able to charge hard some people for lying and obstructing and do other stuff yeah <hes> and then that's the summary But then he gets into the juice the details and the weeds and it's broken down into three sections A._B._C. where as the social media active measure stuff be is the hacking and dumping stuff and see is the Russian outreach and contact stuff and <hes> this is a basic overview of what we learned in the last eight episodes so <hes> I'm going to sum it up and you you know you can go back and look at the relevant parts that we went through or that are in the report art earlier to see if you know to see all the details spelled out for you because this is kind of a conclusion and his decisions on what he prosecuted in what he did not there's no new information in here Jason Analysis on the tells us here conclusions it tells us who prosecuted and why he region in collusion ladies and Jelly spoons and who he did not and why he did not charge them and there's some interesting ones in here so I guess there is some new information in that light so for the active measures section on page seventy four Miller says he charged thirteen Russian nationals and three Russian entities including the Internet Research Agency and Concord Management. That's promotions joint <hes> with violating criminal laws by interfering in our election. Those charges are conspiracy to defraud the United States wire fraud bank fraud aggravated identity theft and conspiracy and the defendants remain at large except for concord management which is still working its way through our courts and in this case is when they hired the American lawyers and fired filed all kinds of weird court filings word for it they were quoting cartoons like todd I taw PUTTY TAT and dropping F- bombs and ultimately forged Inane court documents released and released amusing on anonymous twitter account saying look we act Muller so they tried to pretend like they hacked muller who is so stupid that they would even pretend they hacked molar these guys I guess so <hes> I don't get it on. I don't know if the American lawyers representing concord management were part of that if so they should be sanctioned but it might not be they might just unwitting like we'll represent. You got money do that sometimes so he goes on just say that Oh sorry so. Let's get them forty five three two so he then goes on to say that even though the Internet research agency had reached out and made contact with U._S.. Persons he did not charge the U._S. persons because they did not know they were talking to Russian nationals channels and and this is true in most cases they did charge one U._S. national for supplying false bank account numbers <hes> that allowed the I._R._A.. Internet research agency to Access U._S. online payment systems and that was Richard Panetta. We've talked about I am quite a bit. He pleaded guilty <hes> but even he did not know that these were Russians. Yeah he wishes cramming for you know other reasons. He was like need a fake I._D.. Cou I'm your boy so he wants to six months in prison <hes> and then we have the Russian hacking and Dumping Operation Section and the bulk of this is redacted as it relates to the hacking followed by the Guja for DC leagues and wikileaks dissemination and although we have three full pages of reductions here starting on page seventy six this is the longest redacted part. I've seen so far in the report <hes> we see one unredacted footnote and it's important it says Muller considered but ruled out charges that the dissemination of the hacked material constituted trafficking of stolen property under the national all stolen property act because the law covers tangible goods and even though the hacking code was stored on tangible items there is precedent showing that the content is not subject to the law. WOW information is not subject to the Law Congress has cited this precedent as a reason for amending the law to include hacked materials but as of now it does not section to on page one seventy nine covers the computer intrusion by redacted and I think this might be wikileaks or Roger Stone and Mueller chose not charge wjr them because the computer of redacted. I'm guessing Asandra stone likely qualifies as protected under law which reaches all computers with Internet access what so if you have Internet access you can't crime in his in this law during on that's scary I know that's weird militias. He did not charge here because he had to consider the nature and seriousness of the offense the person's culpability in the probable sentence that would be imposed so whoever this is muller telling us that because none of those three things or a combination of them <hes> or because one of those three things or a combination of them and he didn't charge based on that but these reductions could also be someone we never heard of sure you know ran does pop up every now and then but it makes a lot of sense that it would be one of these guys that have to information mation and wow what a mind fuck that third hacker guy that he alluded to that has was never charged that eventually got was the first person to get into the Hillary <hes> stuff remember his name again. Do you know no they haven't haven't been charged with anything and they they don't even they haven't even admitted he existed but basically what they said. Is You know how somebody when he said. If you find the thirty thousand emails in her missing and within our somebody hacked into Hillary's that the guy that was it could somebody else okay but yeah but this is the guy that they I guess in news articles they've referred to him but didn't say his name or in the Muller we have. We heard to him. Oh so I'm trying to figure out his identity. We don't know it yet but we don't even know if it's a separate guy by the way Muller said in his report God is he muller was like and no one's ever tried to do this before and we don't know how they found out about this but it sounded like there could be an outstanding Russian indictment. That was still an ongoing matter. Okay that makes sense now yeah but we don't we simply don't know that's interesting beans. Though yeah I think it's probably stone yeah and or assange and this could be when you know he's talking about the dissemination thing you know how we were had all the discussions about assange shouldn't be charged with the dissemination of hacked materials because he because that's first amendment and that would infringe on journalists rights to publish disseminate stolen materialize and that's more on tricky argument and now you have this law where it says it has to be tangible. That's crazy too. Well not law is there because it doesn't want because if it's if it's intangible if it's thoughts feelings or words like insightful property again it could be infringing on someone's First Amendment Rights bomber which is good though it's good that we have that because then that allowed allowed like the Pentagon papers to be published in The Washington Post Oh nice yeah about the dossier not so much though this dossier those are some great examples than <hes> but in this case fuck they abuse that loophole and I don't think the dossier was stolen no but the Pentagon papers sure were yeah they were really and Washington Post that we're going to publish them and that is legally no different than assange publishing the hacked materials from Russia be about like morality database it other R._V. Rallies. They're very judges have to interpret it and somebody might not like the way you look and decide that what you did is not moral and what somebody else did up. Human person has to make the application and that's always danger. You're very right yeah. <hes> there we take people's beliefs out of it the the better off we are yeah yeah but God damn there some evil in this I know so the dissemination is the problem <hes> it's because you start infringing on First Amendment when you start trying to prosecute that and that's why when this department of Justice under bar decided to do seventeen charges I think of espionage against Assange for dissemination of hackers stolen materials stats dangerous because now if that it goes through I don't think it will but if that goes through trying to charge the Washington Post with espionage oh just based on the law right with already exists or or the president of the course reading of the law if they prosecuted executed assange successfully for espionage for everything so immature have the right away so to speak. You'd have a precedent yeah you'd have you did over here and this is the first time it's been charged that way and so it would be the first case and there's a couple ah things in here in the declaration. That Miller said he didn't charge because no one's ever done that he didn't want to be the first he's being honest. Though I appreciate that we'll because he was afraid of unintended consequences that you could have on First Amendment rights and we'll get to that <hes> but just it's very fascinating stuff because I'm sitting over here like posey charge them but it's more complicated than that but you gotta think about you know like people who back in the day thought you know you Pussy Platt past the crime bill because we gotta get these these gang gang members behind bars these dangerous people behind bars and it was a didn't dot to think about the unintended consequences of that for sure this is this is the kind of the Morose <hes> purposeful deliberately Chrissy deliberateness. I guess of Muller where he he he doesn't just think about yeah this is wrong and fucked up but how could that infringe on other people's rights in the future if the cases decided in my favor or even against what I say it could set a precedent that has unintended consequences and he's very careful about doing that and I think that's why he so conservative about his prosecutorial decisions. That's why Muller Muller that's why Molars Muller and that's why we our own muller's when it comes to wanting to save save ourselves from this crazy wreck because right really all muller ended up being here was just a note taker and a law-abiding citizen yeah he just ended up being like I'm GONNA get everybody's evidence while it's still fresh and everything I'm GonNa put all together and Y'all fuck with it and we're we're just picking up the pieces now yeah yeah so he was just really a gatherer and presenter of what Went Down Nice well. It was still fresh in people's heads and I want people to understand that before he testifies on Thursday because I don't think he's going to give you anything that you haven't unhurt all right then onto page one eighty and the Russian government outreach and contacts and this was the long part right this was the long cold winter of our discontent and we know no one was charged here he really he reiterates that he uncovered evidence in numerous links between the trump on campaign and Russia evidence of numerous links between get that collusion but he did not pursue charges with the exception of <hes> Faira Violations Against Manafort and Gates <hes> and for not ref for not registering as foreign lobbyists for Ukraine <hes> but one of the interactions the June ninth twenty sixteen meeting implicates <hes> an an additional body of law the campaign the campaign finance statutes but before I get to this it just occurred to me. I haven't seen vendors wants name in here. Yeah maybe that's intentional and he was charged. Yes he with jail for like a hot five minute thirty days I think deported and for not for failing to register foreign agents. Do you think he may be cooperating. He did did cooperate and maybe gave all could so in this case where easy now he's in wherever he came from Switzerland Sweden something like that yeah yeah. So why do your way what do you think he might have not been included any ideas no <hes> but curious yeah just dawned on me said you you know this is the declaration and <hes> and prosecution conclusions and so why is he not in here because here we have manafort and gates with Faira Yeah and there was a charge for vendors one because he he conspired with Manafort and Gates <hes> with <hes> Skadden arps right to write that whitewash report <hes> justifying the imprisonment of Timoshenko which is Yanukovich's opposition in Ukraine and so he was part of that whole thing he failed to register foreign agent but he's not mentioned in here very interesting maybe he maybe muller will bring them up on Wednesday at the testimony I. Hey maybe he just wasn't important. I E you know put him in jail. He had his own episode Buscher Yeah and they you know they mentioned Panero and he was you know yeah very interesting. I'm really hoping that when Miller says he won't go beyond his report people finish one will still be within that you know Speier because he was arrested and not many people were so that seems significant. Okay looking it up. He's he's mentioned one time way back in the report. We mentioned him earlier when we were talking about Kalinic Manafort Hawker and Vander Swan <hes> and the d. m. i.. They worked on the report for the Ukrainian Ministry of Foreign Affairs Right Yeah and that at and but he's not mentioned in the conclusion yeah the definition of prosecution only one hundred forty characters didn't get it all in their maybe long name maybe just thought he wasn't important enough or something very interested. They specifically say the charges as we pursued here in the Russian government outreach and contacts were fair violations against Manafort and gates for not registering as lobbyists for Ukraine which has been Vander Swan would fit nicely right in that exactly yeah. He's he's not lying. He's emitting and I'm not sure why or maybe it's not important. He thought he's just kind of aside. Dude yes little side piece but he did give a lot of information on gates yeah and he's got that you know slick hair memorable. He's very tall and Yan lanky Norwegian looking. He's not talk glass of water. What would he be like? Dry Ice is getting free nitrous oxide anyway one of the interactions the June ninth two thousand sixteen meeting implicates an additional body of law and that's campaign paint finance statutes schemes quote`schemes involving the solicitation or receive assistance from foreign sources raise difficult statutory and constitutional questions as explained below the office evaluated these questions in connection with June ninth meeting and redacted for harm to an ongoing matter <hes> molar ultimately concluded that even if molar could win on the principle of the legal questions of prosecution would encounter difficulties proving the campaign officials or individuals connected to the campaign willfully violated the law so this is the part about junior being too stupid to know right <hes> and while we have heard that ignorance of the laws no excuse to violate campaign finance laws you do need to know your violating the law and you have to be able to prove it yeah. This is where I think those those lawyers come back into play. You know I think they are dumb but I think the lawyer is like kind of help. Guided them like someone smarter has to be responsible for them coincidental how they know yeah hitting the right law with the right. Excuse well more actually explains in here why he thinks things. It's not just on the surface that he thinks trump junior is stupid. He actually has reasons that he thinks that trump junior didn't think he was breaking the law. Okay what reason I'll tell you it's interesting <hes> but it has to do with the fact that they didn't try real hard to hide it until a year later that's hair onto the middle of the page. One eighty where molar addresses the potential coordination conspiracy and collusion here Mullah reiterates again he didn't examine <hes> the Russian contacts with the trump campaign under the rubric of collusion but rather through the lens of criminal conspiracy and not only that he now acknowledges the word collude appears in Rosenstein August second memo outlining the scope of Muller's charge at Muller's scope basically it's the Rosenstein said you can look at Manafort for crimes of collusion and we all went oh so collusion's crime yeah that's confusing and collusion's also he muller says it appeared in a lot of public reporting <hes> as well as in some antitrust law and <hes> we're going to get into that we got into that with an offshoot Ranga during our live show Philadelphia last that and so and you've you know if you listen to the episode that comes out Sunday you'll get to hear that so we discussed the use of the words crimes of collusion in that memo and we concluded early on when that memo came out that if the when the public got a hold of it a redacted version of it that the Attorney General was using it if he was it must mean collusion to crime somehow but after MOS report was released we learned about communications between Rosenstein and trump where Rosenstein assured trump he could land this plane in reference reference to the Muller Investigation and in that light. I personally have to question Rosenstein motives here. <hes> using confusing language is a well known widely used Russian active measure called reflexive control <hes> Seth Abramson addresses this vehemently in his curative reporting according and as have we saw Charan Gaba as I mentioned and this concerns me immensely and as far as the usage antitrust law I'm assuming that that's in reference to price-fixing antitrust laws about limiting monopolies and price-fixing with an industry so for example if all the airlines got together and said nobody charge less than five hundred dollars and we can all charge what we want. That's collusion exactly but in finance you know it's the only place where it has teeth really. It seems like they knew they were like kind of like <hes> Hansel August leading them into the crime they wanted them to investigate yeah and Muller has said there's no art in of of collusion in the art of Lar- here's the term art and I love that I'm like that's very already of you for such a straight ahead guy but <HES> <HES> it does show up the worship antitrust laws and muller brings that up he says even trust is even know trump says all time even know Rosenstein set it all the time. There's no such thing guys to stop yeah and he's very adamant about it so because he knows I think that it's being utilized sized planted. Perhaps in an active measures type way yeah yeah so Mola's despite the word being used in those antitrust laws by the Media Administration Rosenstein collusion is not a specific offensive theory or theory of liability ability nor is it a term of art. That's what he says term of art and Federal Criminal Law. I WanNA painting of that. I want to make a song or an album with that title so for those reasons Muller set out to determine if the numerous contacts between the Russians and the trump campaign could trigger liability ready for the crime of conspiracy way harder to prove so here's the official declaration language the investigation did not establish that contacts described in volume one section four super amounted to an agreement to commit any substantial violation Schmidt Federal Criminal Law including Foreign Influence and campaign finance laws both of which to discuss further below the office therefore did not charge any individual associated with the trump campaign with conspiracy to commit a federal offense arising from Russia contacts either under a specific statute or under section three hundred seventy ones offense clause so that's the language from the report nice and I hope Muller doesn't read that because it's boring shit be there so he might. I don't think the American public news the're no not at all but although I just made you listen to voice is actually pretty entertaining though that way but it's an important piece to understand why he didn't do this and then he goes onto detail similar didn't charge anyone with section three seventy one defraud clause meaning he didn't charge anyone with obstructing interfering with a lawful function of a government agency and finally Millerton identify evidence that any campaign official knowingly willfully conspired to defraud the United States based on the Russia related contacts so basically he's just saying they were all bunch of dumb. fucks didn't realize what was happening or they lied. You know with yes or I didn't. I wasn't able to establish enough key pieces of evidence because they lied or destroyed the evidence or used encryption or messaging. You're the president you can get your story straight. Before anything happens you can pause the Muller Report and get your yeah encryption or encrypted messaging. They're all shitting section to on page. One Eighty one covers the fair considerations. He then defines the law which says you can't act as an agent of a foreign government without telling the attorney general says without telling A._G.. With that you have to tell me you have to report to me and then the act doesn't have to be espionage it can be any type of act like writing an op Ed for Turkey or whitewashing a report about an imprison Ukrainian opposition candidate <music> both of which happened the first by Flynn and the second by manafort vendors one Rick Gates and Greg Craig. He also doesn't manage. I think he mentioned earlier in the port but not in it could be one of the harm to the ongoing matters thing because I think he handed off okay okay vendors win might have been handed off to maybe that's why he's not in the report but he mentioned earlier yeah on the bottom of age wanting to two more says metaphor engage engaged in extensive work for the government of Ukraine specifically Yanukovych appro resin a pro Russian separatist <hes> muller than mentions he found evidence Vince Flynn acted as an agent of Turkey without registering and he admitted it as part of his cooperation agreement and a lot of shit has happened since then including a public reporting that Flynn sent direct twitter messages to Matt Gaetz Congressman from Florida and once the gates basically went on Fox News and trashed Muller and then Flynn was like good job. Keep up the good work bro and then the second time he messaged him direct message. Jimmy sent gates a flag jif in an Eagle Jif and that was on the day bill bar was appointed. Oh my gosh all right after he's cooperating. That's really weird so judge. Sullivan the Judge Influence case warned Flynn during a sentencing hearing last December six months five months before the no four months before the mole report came out <hes> that it would not be who've him to be sentenced that day go forth and keep cooperating because even though Muller Recommended Zero Jail Time for Flynn Sullivan Ass Muller's prosecutors if they'd consider charging him with trees and then they didn't seem like he was GonNa let him off the hook right. I was sitting there do it charging and put them in jail but he's like go tribe cooperate more get out of my sight. Basically I didn't want to talk to you. Yeah go to your room. You can't sit with us. You can sit with us. You can't sit with us. Sullivan would would later order the release of voicemail that trump's lawyer John Dowd who we call one tale <hes> left for Flynn's lawyers he left this dowd leftist voicemail for Flynn's lawyer threatening him not to cooperate. Let me put this starker terms for you <hes> not to cooperate with Muller and then dangled a pardon like you know everybody loves you. Bro It was pretty obvious <hes> and Sullivan then also ordered the transcripts of Flynn's conversations with Kislyak released but the government intervened as if to say you can't release those uh-huh and so Sullivan conceded <hes> it makes me wonder about that one harm to an ongoing matter reduction in Muller's report and more recently Flynn fired his attorneys and is now no longer co op a cooperating witness in the trial of his business his partner who was charged with violations for the lobbying that he inflicted on behalf of Turkey <hes> they wrote the Anti Golan op Ed. Oh Yeah you had a lot of Turkey shenanigans going on with Al Qaeda uptaken the other guy in the case and he was supposed we the star witness but the prosecution says they can no longer trust Flynn and since he's no longer credible witness he's been pulled from testifying in the case and he's been dubbed a CO conspirator instead of a cooperating witness wow and note that Flynn's new lawyers and outspoken Anti Muller conspiracy theorist she runs the creeps on a mission website about the Mueller investigation and has publicly called for Flynn to withdraw his guilty plea and for trump to pardon him so so then we have a very deliberate statement for Muller on the bottom of page one eighty three that says in particular the office did not find evidence likely to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that campaign officials such as Paul Manafort George Popadopoulos and Carter Page acted as the agents of the Russian government or at its direction or control or at its requests during the relevant time period so did not find evidence likely to prove beyond a reasonable doubt. I mean there's evidence so you can send this statement to anyone who says there's zero evidence of we know for a fact that in order to have probable cause even open an investigation. You have to have like a two percent night. It's like milk Yep and then for a preponderance of the evidence. It's fifty point one percent more likely than not reasonable. Doubt is like ninety nine percent yeah Angie these out in my thing yes so it's mathematically correct that there is was evidence of members of the trump campaign acting as agents of Russia and I think Miller was conservative here and that's a shame I mean he is Republican music. He's just a conservative Doodo around is through and through. I respect it. Finally deadly Muller Muller says he looked into whether popadopoulos acted doesn't is agent of Israel but did not have evidence beyond a reasonable doubt to charge him. This is the first time we've heard of that so there's some evidence that popped up was an agent of Israel weird. I know what the hell that'd be boy in Israel everything about that guy great coffee on their due to <hes> then the ongoing matter in the footnote is likely to be Yankee Ann McKee multi case. I mentioned earlier. It's the only ongoing thing that's going on right now that I can think of <hes> the other footnote is about Carter Pages Faisal Warrant and I think Muller puts this in here because pages surveillance is one of the cruxes of the argument that is you know the deep state <hes> you know Anti Miller guys and the investigation was illegitimate because the Fisk <hes> used Christopher steele dossier as part of one of their four applications for a FIS a warrant which were signed by Rosenstein and in recent reports the inspector general question steel as part of trump's investigation into the oranges of the investigation which is origins. It's that's trump joke. If you're listening to this forty years from now trump mispronounces words all the time one of them is origins. He's tried to say it like twice and he kept saying oranges. They don't have oranges anymore. Global warming picking like what's an orange after two years from now what does even an orange. I don't even know what that is. I'm GONNA have to Google at what's the origins of everything so anyway. That's why we say into the we usually replaced origins with oranges and of course anonymous amount so anyway that trump whole thing right trump and trumpers jumpers and bar we have to look at the investigate the investigators and steals a dirty dossier well anyway the inspector general question him grilled him for sixteen hour steel and found him to be highly credible page ages unknown Russian stooge. He was caught up rush inspiring twice before my goodness Muller states that the Pfizer warrants have to meet the probably probable cause standard which is much lower than reasonable doubt just even if he seems like a creep on a mission <hes> we're gonNA turn the tables. I mean it's just more fitting for him. It really is it's the hat anyway that's the standard and as if to defend he's Miller seems like he's defending legitimacy of the surveillance which occurred by the way after page page left the trump campaign so there's campaign just just paranoid now. Jake is hat. Why are taking away hats all right guys? We'll be right back after this quick word. Moshi wrote is brought to you by Ziprecruiter and as a business owner. I'm here to tell you hiring process can be overwhelming sometimes stacks and stacks of resumes from tons of different job sites you have to sort through them all trying to determine if any of the meet your minimum qualifications that can be really daunting but there's an easy way and you can get it all done in one place by heading to Ziprecruiter dot com slash A._G.. 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We're onto the bottom of page one eighty three in the campaign finance violation considerations so muller looked into two instances where the Russians offered dirt on Hillary to help trump and that's the June ninth trump tower meeting and some other redacted instance and it's redacted for harm to an ongoing matter and I wonder if this Zamel the CY group that offer from the August third trump tower meeting or if it's the stone wikileaks matter or if it's the inaugural trump victory pack n._R._A.. Matter the WHO it is. I feel like the victory pack in the N._R._A.. And the inaugural hand were handed off and I know they're still the stone was handed off to DC after hurt. His report was concluded so I don't this could be group or stone and then wanted the other one was just handed off to somebody else but weird right yeah. There's so many options and he only has one redacted thing but. There is a Bendix D.. which has I think it was fifteen or sixteen? Ongoing invest like handed off investigations. Two of which we know about the rest are just totally the crap shoot their twelve. I finger covered up <hes> muller than defines all the pertinent laws about how L. campaigns can't take anything of value from foreign government and limits the contributions to campaigns <hes> he's specifically quotes the law that a violation must be knowing and willful and that's important for what's about to come and on page one hundred five we get to the application of the law to the trump tower meeting and Muller says says they considered charging campaign members but because of the significant burden of proof in campaign finance law which requires both knowing and willful intent coupled with establishing value of the offered information modern feel he could obtain and sustained conviction fiction here so yeah just didn't have it or you know I mean we know what happened but in order to be charged with it. It's quite a bit yeah. I just think of all the lawyers who made their money just by taking advantage of this fact and just like hey I can get you off. 'cause we can just make it seem like like this wasn't there. It just seems to easy you know yeah yeah but we also have to give our love to defense attorneys. That's true. I am suspicious when it comes to the letters but you're right. They're great people Hashtag Donald Defense. You're absolutely right. I I was thinking about the sketchy people because when we talk about these crimes I'm like they were definitely crime ing but they were so clever that someone was helping them avoid one that could have just been legal advisors. You know just been like secular pupae yeah flood not necessarily or yet criminal defense lawyers enough legal advisers point so muller considered whether to offer a muller considered whether the offer of dirt from Goldstone to junior established a conspiracy to violate at the foreign contribution span. He says there are reasonable arguments that what was offered was a thing of value <hes> but the office did not obtain admissible evidence that junior acted knowingly willfully with general knowledge of the illegality beyond a reasonable doubt and the government would have had a hard time establishing the value of what was offered would exceed the threshold for criminal violation and on page one eighty six muller try to explain this and starts out by saying that the law is pretty broad when it talks about things EVALU- doesn't have to be money so he said out to figure if dirt on Hillary in the form of documents and information would constitute a prohibited campaign contribution so he argues for over a page here using case law for similar situations to dirt on Hillary or opposition research and he's trying to find out if it's a thing of value but then he turns on us because it looks like he's going one way because he's like well. This is kind of like dirt on Hillary and they said it was a thing value and this is kind of like opposition research and they said that was up and then he goes but at the end of the page he's he's says there's never been a judicial decision about voluntary provision of uncompensated opposition research <hes> a first time decision could have negative implications <hes> by either imposing limits on campaign contributions or infringing on First Amendment Right and this is muller saying this. I get it Yep so he didn't want to be the first. I just think that was passing the buck. You know someone has to do it clearly but he's like. I won't be the Guy Yeah if you're not the guy in this isn't the time what is exactly t shirts for that Shit Right. I you know he just very conscientious about infringing on somebody's First Amendment right get it comes from a good place that whole war thing yeah I I wish you were more of a martyr. You know just following the Sword Muller Kimmy a lot of responsibility it is and you know you don't WanNa look back or have it known this one tiny decision you made took the country on a left turn into infringement on fly effect yeah for for sure <hes> then the section wilfulness on page one eighty-seven where Miller says even if the government could prove that the dirt was a thing evalu- Muller could not provide admissible evidence that would prove the defendant had an understanding that what he was doing was illegal legal for for these campaign finance violations. The law requires proof that defendants has knowledge of the law so ignorance law is an excuse in this case in junior apparently ignorant of the law okay. Let's get a t shirt of that and some muller would need evidence is to prove beyond a reasonable doubt the the trump folks knew they were breaking the law. You'd have to have that evidence that they knew it and apparently and this is what we're I was alluding to earlier. They didn't try hard enough to cover it up cover. The meeting right Muller said I know they tried to cover it up a year later a lot but that only proves they didn't negative political consequences and it does not establish that they knew what they were doing at the time was illegal so you'll see the term. Scientists used here a lot in the report and that just means knowledge of wrongness. Oh not like a scientist and that's a weird concept when you're dealing with privileged or sociopathic people who never think they're doing anything wrong or that. The law doesn't apply to them. So how'd you prove somebody knows that they're breaking the law if they're their stay think so highly of themselves they the above the law like are they ever capable of cramming in that case right like super privilege guys don't think the law applies to them. So how could they ever possibly have a corrupt intent. I think this is how they've been getting away with it. I mean got to the bottom bottom of privilege we we've figured it out. You write a book privilege in law why it happened why it is what do this but I hope when all this is set. We fixed the laws Fisher. I don't know how to do that without infringing on people's rights. This is gonNA break some eggs. You know maybe put a threshold if you if you more than if you're worth more than ten million dollars they should applies to you. Yes yes why not let's try that like you. Don't have to have knowledge of the law if you're super rich in order for me to charge you with a law because you probably don't think laws apply to you anyway yeah yeah. We need to address privilege with these laws. I don't think we do enough. It's weird indigent one eighty eight and the explanation I know I probably violated ten things of the Constitution. Don't think being like it. I just thought is a philosophical point. I think you're so effing special that the law does not apply to literally then how can you ever be proven beyond a reasonable doubt to have willful knowledge of criminal intent. I mean that's the big question of what we're dealing with here. Because our president is that person strange <hes> onto page one eighty eight in the explanation of why it was difficult to assign value to the dirt on Hillary so the value thresholds for the Larr two thousand dollars for a criminal violation and it has to be over twenty five thousand dollars worth of whatever for Felony Miller also says <hes> here that although dirt on Hillary certainly has value they never got the dirt and while value in conspiracy may well be measured by what the expected to receive Goldstone's description of what it was wasn't specific enough and and the uncertainty of what was to be delivered is reflected in juniors response if it's what you say I love it so for all the I don't know he's too stupid super. All these reasons muller did not charge anyone in connection with the June ninth the twenty sixteen trump tower meeting okay okay I give that his hands tied once again <hes> we had to do something about this though because Goldstone could be a sketchy motherfucker to it's just weird right bottom a page one eighty eight we get to the application of this law <hes> to something redacted for harm to an ongoing matter and I assume this is where Muller's applying the campaign finance laws governing foreign contributions maybe to Roger Stone me but Zamel <hes> maybe the hacked emails maybe cy group Israel and maybe that's why they've looked into populism Asia. I don't know I'm guessing just throwing stuff out there. <hes> Matt might be what's under the redaction bars Miller explains why stone was not charged with a felony because he to <hes> is too dumb to know he was breaking the law <hes> and if it is stone because on page one ninety under wilfulness for this redacted guy or people or lady <hes> under the wilfulness section Muller says that given what's noted in the redacted boxes above <hes> he would have muller would have a substantial barrier to prosecution and I'm sure <hes> this isn't what he means but it sounds like he's saying stone is substantially stupid another bumper sticker for the way I just can't help it gets so angry thinking that any other case where this is support person committing a crime they can't be too stupid. I've never heard of that working out for a poor person or just someone who's not privileged. I think there's different kinds of crimes like white collar versus blue collar and that's the problem it's already segregated you set it up for the the the Muller the mole report then touches on the First Amendment considerations in regards to the case and that may be about the distribution of stolen materials and how that's the First Amendment right. We've talked about this like I said Muller may have decided here are and I'm guessing because it's all redacted and it might not have even be about stone and wikileaks but muller may have decided not to indict Asandra wikileaks or stone <hes> so he wouldn't imperil the First Amendment Rights of legit media outlets because the law here doesn't put the burden of of proving your legitimacy as a meeting media outlets so there's no definition of assange is not a legit media wikileaks is not a Washington Post is all new to the law. I get that too yeah. This makes a lot of since the way similar spelled it out. I also think that since like as far as white collar crime and goes <hes> it seems like with Andrew McCabe book we got away from that because of terrorism right prosecuting it but now it seems like white-collar crimes and terrorism or like overlapping I wonder if that'd be a the reason for them to kind of Lou back around and address it more heavily. Maybe I definitely think we'll have to have a new attorney. General <hes> Yeah I have come loses the election. I say she'd be Genius A._G.. She'd be great should be certainly great. She was great the Aga California so good cop on page one ninety I mean she made some mistakes with all made mistakes true. We've had discussions about this A._G.. Has Not made mistakes league. I certainly have not attorney general though just as as myself it just human met you know she went into a corrupt system to try to fix it and there you can't just walk in and have the corruption end with you. There's going to be lap. Overlap corruption. Holy Obama had the same problem and you're going to get hit with so right. Sometimes people are like Oh but they should get it. They you should be pure because they know it's like no human-to-human. You can't just stop these things because you don't like them anymore. Because it the butterfly effect it affects ninety six different things Yup and then you could start a war with Norway and you didn't even realize it. I'd have no idea what it's like to be an A._G.. Except when I am or or the president but every decision has a thousand down his ballot Kodaly consequences a laser beam doesn't care about them. <hes> this is a again this is I think this is just muller looking forward about not wanting to have unintended consequences negatively impacting the first amendment demand media outlets for sure what we consider it'd be legitimate me outlets because the law doesn't recognize what is in is not interesting <hes> onto page one ninety-one about who lied and who obstructed did and as in the previous section he begins with the governing law <hes> which people refer to as a one thousand one violation that's lying. He also defines Perjury Section sixteen twenty three in the main differences whether or not you're under oath. Yes sorry that one thousand and violations just reminds me like Dalmatian domination hundred one thousand one violations like a movie poster. Somebody Please Austin rank up on a big spotted fur coats. Oh I love it with the white and black hair really pull that off it'd be great and obstruction of justice is the third thing here and he lays out that there's three elements of obstruction of justice which include you have to have an obstructive act then you have to some sort of nexus between the acted official preceding nexus meaning a connection between what you've done in official proceeding and then criminal intent and that it'll become really important in volume two because even though that intent is really hard to prove I think eight out of the ten instances of obstruction of justice in volume to he was able to clearly establish intent and he and Muller even laid out the three things yeah whether or not each of those things rose to the level of criminals. What are the pros to trump being investigated after being president? He's always on camera. There is so much evidence obstructing but behind the scenes during the campaign there was less I mean there was attention but I wasn't paying attention to him and if you keep obstructing past <hes> January Twentieth Twenty Twenty <hes> I think record well then if he's reelected he the statute of limitations doesn't do that clock doesn't start ticking until you're done crime ing oh so he would have to stop obstructing justice meaning stop stonewalling the investigations by Congress this January in order to let the in order to have the five year statute of limitation laps until he's out of office and could be charged with it. He must be thinking about that. Someone had to have told if I thought of it. He should know it is an idiot in many ways but that he's got a lot of lawyers around totally <hes> <hes> anyway that it's that whole obstruction thing and intent is going to be really important in volume two. It's going to be really important. During the more testimony next Wednesday's yes so keep an eye out for those three things <hes> when you watch that testimony and and again those are an obstructive act and then some sort native connection between the accident official proceeding and criminal intent or corrupt intent then we get to the application of the laws <hes> and Muller starts with pop up okay he lied lied about meeting with <hes> Mifsud and pollen sky and Timothy you've and he lied about the extent and Import Chats Mifsud and he lied about saying that he met Poland Sky before he joined the campaign and when he met her after any minimize the extent of their communications more says these lies impeded his investigation by hindering the investigator's ability you to challenge Mifsud when he lied to them so he was charged he pleaded guilty he went to jail for fourteen days. He paid a ninety five hundred dollar fine yeah yeah that was that Yep then on to the next guy who was redacted for privacy and the information is redacted for grand jury material. I don't yeah I don't know who the person is but they have a very short name. Oh Okay yes shorter shorter than Michael Flynn shorter than Jeff sessions the redaction bars. We'll take a malaria crossword right yeah fill in the boy. I love it <hes> so that's redacted then there's Michael Flynn. He made to false statements to the F._B._i.. I about his chats with Kislyak about sanctions and the response to Russian sanctions and second about his call to Russia about the U._N.. Council vote on Israeli settlements specifically. He said he only asked how the countries were voting. He wasn't trying to get him to change their vote. So Muller charged him he pleaded guilty and admitted to falsifying his fair documents and he's awaiting sentencing of course we know he's no longer cooperating witness. He's opened himself up to being charged with fair violations if the government thinks it's worth pursuing <hes> Judge Sullivan has issued another order in this case this week because Flynn's new anti muller lawyers remember the crazy lady power <hes> <hes> <hes>. She says she's not getting the documents they need fast enough from Flynn's former our attorneys the covering the Covington Burlington guys are Covington burling <hes>. I don't know Burlington factories Burlington coat factory lawyers so judge Sullivan is making all the lawyers come into the next hearing and he's getting a legal professional. Oh ethics person from the District of Columbia Bar Association how to Lecture Flynn's lawyers on what it means to be a professional lawyer. It's like really subtle very passive aggressive right like do what he says all right. You're not going to get your documents documents. Soon enough apparently go back to law school and he's bringing in person to basically so funny and I think we learned recently that the head of the D._C.. Bar Association might actually be a former COVINGTON BURLINGTON coat factory three lawyer which would be funny because he'd be lecturing Bob Hasty and it's great to Michael Cohen is we know Coen testified to the hips in the Sissy. That's the short terms for the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence Tipsy and Senate Select Committee on Intelligence Sissy and this is one of the great arguments as to why it's Jif and not give everybody says it has to be a hard G. because g stands for graphics but we don't base are pronunciation of acronyms on the underlying words Damn dropping knowledge hippy and Sissy okay. There's definitely hard season there for committee I could be defined by both those things hip see Sissy <hes> so anyway before he appeared Coen. Send a letter to to them with say here's what I'm going to testify to and they had three big problems I he said trump tower project ended January twenty seventeen lie then he said he never agreed to travel to Russia's part of the project lie and then he said he did not recall any Russian contacts about the project lie so his testimony was consistent with those statements that bullshit statements he made and he also told Muller's office the same lies so mueller charged him and he pleaded guilty to a single count and Muller recommended zero jail time but the southern district of New York it was handling. Handling the hush money payments case in the campaign finance violation case was not so lenient and they were pretty angry at him and sentenced him to three years and he's in jail right now serving time for crimes that he committed at the direction of individual one which is trump and just today okay the judge in the southern district or New York that was looking into the trump organizations involvement in the cover up released eight hundred ninety five pages of unredacted Cohen Warrant Materials and we didn't learn or there was a lot of it was stuff if we knew because they were only kind of redacted but there was a nineteen page chunk that was redacted in those warrants when they were released last yeah and we can see them now we saw him today. ooh and basically we learned that trump pecker from the enquirer Dylan Howard the legal counsel from the enquirer Michael Cohen and Keith Davidson the lawyer for care McDougal and stormy not P._d.. We're all in constant communicate. It'd be fun if he was the one guy walks like a fucking <hes> and they were all in constant communication about the stormy Daniels and Karen McDougal Hush money payments those flurry of communications activities after the <hes> that <hes> pussy tape came out the billy Bush thing <hes> access Hollywood yeah the Access Hollywood tape tape is better <hes> we also learned that we were right when we guest that in April of Twenty Eighteen Keith Davidson and Michael Cohen were in cahoots on these hush money payment scheme payoff things because there's nuance documents show that it was <hes> the guys from the enquirer introduced the two and said Hey. I got a business opportunity for you to Keith Davidson alternative over to Cohen and so they work together to get these to get this hush money payments crazy <hes>. I'm now hoping hoping New York Attorney General picks up this case since the Fed seem to be done with it though the investigation ended in what I consider to be strange circumstances as Robert Khuzami the prosecutor who led the cone investigation step down right after bar was confirmed and although there were several leads that they were exploring that came out of the more recent Coen testimony where he spilled the beans. They just stopped investigating after bar got their five months ago. It went dark. <hes> I think this pissed off the judge this federal judge today and that's why he felt it necessarily release all this previously redacted cone warrant information and I really hope his james picks it up and prosecutes it. She can't prosecute campaign finance federal campaign finance laws because there's a federal but you can certainly <hes> you know <hes> prosecute the trump organization for falsifying their business records by saying they were Reimbursing Cohen for legal services for his illegal campaign. She totally needs to alleyoop this she and her cord it is come on get it. You've got to be other crimes involved in there that that need to be pursued looked out within the trump weren't caserta tissue wrote to she really gets serious about it because she is so many things she could do. Yes absolutely <hes> and there's another redacted person with harm to an ongoing matter who also has a short name. Maybe it's Roger Stone and then on the bottom of one page one hundred seven is Jeff sessions turn and this is where Muller decided he didn't have sufficient evidence that sessions knowingly lied because session said he would his understanding of all the time he was asked if he had contact with Russians he thought the questioner was asking if he met with Russians to exchange campaign hey information I still think that's bullshit but if Muller says he can't obtain and sustained a conviction he's smarter than me so I defer onto the final section about other folks interviewed and this is kind of a weird vague section. He says he says says we interviewed other. People thought about their lives and their omissions but we didn't charge anyone else other than the folks listed here sometimes because of evidentiary hurdles other times because they didn't lie at all <hes> but then there appear to be a list of three people they thought what about charging with lying but ultimately didn't but they're all redacted for personal privacy. I was thinking might be junior but we have no evidence that more interviewed junior like when you have to interview him to determine that he was too stupid to know that the trump tower meeting was against the law maybe or just like watch him totally. Did you just keep an eye on here. The words that yeah yeah so yeah just that's how you know and because we know we lied to Congress about the time line of the trump tower Moscow but there's no mention of it that we can see perhaps one day we'll find out or maybe junior did speak with muller and we don't know and that's what this grand jury. Redaction is <hes> in fact my beans I think are on trump junior having testified to the grand jury but plead the fifth <hes> because Muller mentioned in the beginning that it wasn't just encrypted APPs and encrypted emails and lies that made it hard for him to establish evidence but he mentioned people pleading the fifth and we don't have a list of who all did it so yeah their game because that's all grand jury material you plead the fifth the grand jury okay. This makes a lot more sense now so and that's what's under one of those redacted considerations on page one eighty nine. I think maybe it says junior plead the fifth so we were unable to charge them with lying. <hes> I still no no he wasn't charged with line to Congress. I suppose it Congress would have to charge him right yeah. They'd have to make a criminal referral to the Department of Justice and we know who works there. We know who's it just. It seems like obstruction which we'll get into extensively offensively in volume two which starts next Thursday and that's the day after Muller testifies to the public but the day before we traveled to Chicago for our live show there and the same way same week we premier daily beans. That's our new Daily News Pod for your morning commute. Yes very a busy so guys that is the declarations and the criminal prosecutions section yes of the report. I appreciate the way heated. I always appreciate the way more rights but that was a really good conclusion little summary there yeah there's a couple of things I disagree with but like fair yeah like I said I'm a little probably less conservative but I I would probably be less careful with the law yeah. That's probably what it boils down to is that why your podcast it can be radical self right make conjecture without hurting people speech much this way we have a podcast instead of the country exactly I love this universe reverse that were in yeah well aside from the obvious but yeah Melissa was stuck watching like stone in a hard place and it's just like he can't do anything he is. He's tells us what it is. It's really here's what I could do. Here's why couldn't do yeah you're just it's like you said through the Mike to Congress Yep go and they need to pick that shit up yeah trying but there's so much infighting in the now this stuff with a senator Mac like it's just there distracted and Pelosi trying to keep mud track and it's I hope they don't fuck up questioning. Listening necessarily are really really hope so I think trump is hoping that all of us will throw them off. He thanked anger will take over them or something yeah and right now again. If you're listening to this in the future to give you a little bit of what's going on right now this weekend <hes> trump tweeted some racist racist tweets about four congresswoman of color and that blew up in his face and then he double down on it <hes> and said they should go back where they come from and <hes> and then in his rally alley last night while we were on stage fifty-six <hes> one to one or two he got it and add has rally last night while we were performing <hes> in Philly he he was talking about Hano Mar and the crowd started chanting send her backpack not home note that then her back Yep and <hes> that was really surreal to see even as we're living through it and can't imagine how I atmosphere for her but yeah it all seems like he's trying to distract from the countless things that are coming up for him. The more testimony the Epstein case yes. He just upside today was refused bail. He's probably GonNa die in jail now. Yes he should be in jail until fillers trial and then he will probably be convicted faces up to forty five years. See that happening. That's way overdue so I had a history teacher in high school. Who always told me that you know you follow these things linearly but it's important to mention what's going on at the time and I just WanNa Kinda painted a pin tiny picture about some of the things that are going on in the face of Miller's testimony next week? It's a big big week for our country. I mean I know it's weird to say like as we're living in an today. Trump comes on T._v. and tried to distance themselves from his crowd saying I didn't chant with them right and then he said well. If you heard I cut him off I immediately started talking and the actual official count of the chant was he let him champ for fifteen seconds until until they stopped while they died down and then he continued yeah at the clip I washed. She didn't seem like he was trying to shut anybody up so he was looking around but that look on his faking it in masking in it <hes> hatred and the trolls are out and the races are out they have been but now he really got him roundup so scary times but I will say <hes> my my final thought and everything on this week. Is that that face APP. I don't know if you've noticed a lot of people have these old rush old rushing old spoiler alert the Russians Day yeah so there's just APP circulating right now where people are uploading selfies and it makes them look old and it's really realistic and yeah the Russians apparently are behind it yeah and not just the Russians vessel burke. Oh didn't know that Yeah Okay and vessel. Berg is the Guy I who donated five hundred thousand dollars to essential consulting <hes> the slogan is it's fucking essential special slogan wins Slush Money Fund for paying to buy access to president the trump A._t.. And T. put money in their <hes>. Some China Arrows T. E. and so a lot of a lot of different companies <hes> through money into that pharmaceutical company did but I don't savings e._T._a.. Did Oh these had a separate I it was a South Korean aerospace. Okay okay but yeah they got access at differently <hes> probably through Vonda but any earth Kushner because he was trying to buddy up with Hong Bank it to get them building so anyway that the that was. That's the vessel Berg he's. He's that guy interesting. It's it's very strange to see them still actively infiltrating our country and like this was an APP that I saw every single friend of mine's like page like just they're. They're getting to us in ways that we're not expecting for. Some people misunderstand to they go. Oh so they've got my picture big deal. No they have every single thing in your facebook profile back a lot of going being by going back to when you started having facebook and every APP that's ever connected to facebook where you've signed in with facebook yeah. They have all that those data. That's very good point. Also pictures have a lot of data in them so they can see from your picture where you took it where you were like all these information the mayor location like it's very scary how much it can be in a photograph yeah just in the photograph like if you don't open a brushing email pictures like don't even look at the picture the ring yeah but but no I mean seriously think about every every time you've continued with facebook or signed with facebook or took a quiz or anything they know where you are to the little dots Amerasinghe they connect you yeah. They can see where you're within. A five minute span. It's creepy. Mifsud won't have to get that those fifty million a user data profile information from facebook which facebook just got fined by the Federal Trade Commission five billion dollars but no rules that they have to follow trying to make their own money now so I think trying to figure out a way around that it's crazy call it the the libra I think the with her currency Weird Shit we're times but anyways yeah just I would say if you did make you download the APP <hes> in delete it but also just be mindful of what they would use it for like when you see these post come around campaign season targeted at you. Yes I just think about it more than you probably normally would probably are trying to brainwash US yeah. They have your data. They have your information. They know what your likes and dislikes are and they know what you're passionate about and that's the big thing and that's why they use these wedge issues like guns and L._G._B._T._Q.. Rights and black lives matter and I do yeah because they an immigration because they know that these are where people's fears passions really exist. These are the wedge issues and they'll find you and they'll say oh. This person gets really riled up. When can you mentioned you know something negative about transgender people or something negative about immigrants and so I'm going to do this and I'm going to connect with a candidate so that they do the same thing where feed you lies about something that you're passionate about in your so passionate that you have what are they call it a confirmation by it absolutely so just be aware of that up? That's going around. You know something else. That's happening Zeitgeist. That's right <hes> so now that we filled you in a little bit on what's been going down. <hes> and we've finished finished volume one of the report <hes> and we Miss Jordan today. She's out <hes> doing a thing but <hes> we we'll. We'll have her back. Yes yes doing very important quality time Steph yes so she'll be back. We import on today or tomorrow doing thing I don't know maybe I mean. Just feel it out. I'm going to see if I can get us some extra time at the hotels. We're having this job or leave until I should. This is private stuff. Yeah maybe just while I don't mind sharing. y'All don't need to hear <hes> but you know maybe we'll try to put that mount tomorrow after he warned them to be more careful about their security flight leaves this terminal this airport and <hes> yeah so no but in any case <hes> you know we did I on the daily beans. We did mention that we probably wouldn't be putting out daily updates for our patrons on what Tuesday Wednesday Thursday yes so Fridays and maybe but we'll be back for the daily beans for officially yeah Mondays daily beans officially premiered on Monday. It's worth a late if it has to be. We'll see what we can do. Yeah and that's just that's also for patrons. If you want to become a patron you can become a patron of more she wrote and the daily beans all with one monthly payment. You don't have to sign up for two patron or patriots or whatever just head to Patriot dot com slash muller she wrote or Patriotic Dot com slash the deal beans and that will take you all of the same place and you pledge and you are then a patron for both bushes. You are one of us you get all kinds of cool secret meet and greet stuff and we're doing one tonight with our Patriots episode right after this yeah I'm going to this baby and then we're gonNA head to a place that no one knows but the patron and yeah we just do all sorts of like little. Ask Me anything you can come close facebook facebook group which is really awesome tight knit community definitely like minded people that were super helpful with one another and we took great networking opportunity to because there's a lot of just really cool business owners and creators and stuff where you figure out if you need help with something there's going to be somebody in in that community resistor that also has that <hes> what what you know whatever the services you're looking for care man like I'm facebook. It's hard to find like I think real connections and we we have one pretty lucky yeah and there's t shirts yes connections and t-shirts. That's how it matters. And what else do we have a pre sale for for shows and add free daily beans episodes as long as we're independent we could get bought out by network and they might do that anymore. have to give warning yeah. It's just a really cool community and do his three bucks a month and it pays for our our staffs health prepare healthcare basically Oh yeah that's what it helps us. Get our healthcare so yeah and I'm saying so I need that she yeah yeah. Although I know you're feeling better. You don't sound like you just I know that leftover do but I promise way better I missed pretty much. All of pride I went to the parade which was great and then I couldn't stay for the festival and I paid for it and I was like I've never been that sick in a y. You couldn't stay undo something that was a bummer. Resting is nice to it felt good. Just kind of like just blackout. It is nice. Sleep is nice in fact. We're going to do that after our meet-and-greet tonight's definitely guys thank you so much for listening. I know the PRY <hes> it was at the end so you didn't have to listen to it if you didn't feel like there's a lot of personal stuff but anyway we really appreciate you guys listening to this. It's important that everybody understand what what's in the mole report and that's why we're doing this so you know anybody who maybe doesn't have time to read them all report right but wants to listen to it when they're on the treadmill or listen to it when they're walking the dog <hes> I it's gosh we have nine episodes. It's we've done probably thirteen hours and that's just the first volume yeah but it's all a hefty stuff that's really important yeah and and we also kind of provide sort of context for it so it's just not a super dry exactly because it is it's a legal document but it does read a little bit like a spy novel. It's just not but anyway just let people know and thank you so much for listening. Take care of yourselves and take care of each other I've been A._G.. I've been to Lisa Johnson and this is muller. She wrote more. She wrote is producing reducing engineered by A._G.. With editing logo designed by Lisa Johnson our marketing consultant and social media manager is Sara Lee Steiner and our subscriber and communications director is Jordan Coburn fact checking and research by A._G.. And Research Assistance Budget Lisa Johnson and Jordan Coburn are.

Muller Muller Muller Miller Mr Trump Russia Muller Muller president Hillary Muller Report Court trump Julian assange government Roger Stone United States attorney Molars Muller Vince Flynn official
#28 Dr. Muller

Heavyweight

49:35 min | 11 months ago

#28 Dr. Muller

"In this episode of heavyweight is brought to you by Bonobos with more fits more sizes more colors and more styles than ever but oh bows makes clothes that help every guy look and feel their best self however you fed the Noboa's fits you Hello how come. You're French is so much better than mine. I think everybody's trying to and why is that because we listen you. Don't listen. I mean I was in French. Immersion all you guys. What you either daydream? While you're talking do you know what it sounds like. You're on all those French. Immersion teachers sides that I had throughout the years. That's what they used to say. Zhanna town Tetouan La Lune which means Your head in the client if found save la La la says do do of Wild Cancun to tackle. I'M GONNA. I'm GonNa you know you you know I'm getting close to the hang up. It could come in when you start getting. I mean they're right about now right right now from Gimblett media. I'm Jonathan Goldstein. Eighteen and this is heavyweight. Today's episode Dr Mueller. Uh growing up a single question dominated my thought what what was the use. What was the use of getting out of bed of combing your hair of breathing all that breathing? What was the use of anything? When all of life inevitably king grinding? To an end by seventeen I was waking up in the middle of the night seized by the meaninglessness justness of it all by eighteen. I started to lose my hair at nineteen. I dropped out of college and a twenty. I knew I had to do something and so he began seeing a therapist. Initially the idea felt romantic like something out of Jd. Salinger Hitchcock at our first. I appointment I might have even worn blazer minute. Therapists extended a hand and introduced herself as Dr Mueller and for the next six appears that was the only name by which she was known to me. Dr Mueller never referred to me by my first name either. Instead she called me Mr Goldstein allstate. which because she spoke with a heavy German accent? She pronounced Goldstein. The first and only time. I tried correcting her. She simply said it is Goldstein. Dr Mueller was rail thin appeared to be in her late sixties and wore her hair in a grayish bowl cut she favored turtlenecks and maccarone vests and sat behind signed an imposing desk empty except for a telephone and a neat stack of small note papers at the end of our first appointment. She asked me to write up a one page family history instead. I took a deep dive into my childhood. I wanted her to have all the source material. She'd need to get to the bottom of my morbid disposition -sition and so the following week. I proudly presented her with a book length memoir. Dr Mueller skimmed through it and then and silently stuck my thome in a drawer and never brought it back up so several sessions later I did. I am not very interested interested in the past. She said I'm more interested in the present. What are you going to do now? She asked what I I was going to do. Now I hoped was talk about my past. But Dr Mueller could care less a therapist uninterested in the past ran contrary to everything. I thought I knew about therapy. It was like a carpenter who refused to work with would more than that. It was like a carpenter who hated aided would and if you brought them would they throw it in a concrete drawer. Never mention it again wasn't excavating the past pretty much therapists whole job. Where else does one find answers? Dr Mueller's unwillingness to even acknowledge my past was confounding. But so were a lot of things about her sometimes she inexplicably show up wearing a neck. Brace other times. Chief spent frantic minutes buffing out an invisible scuff marks from a waiting room chair. Then there were the long anecdotes about car trouble a trip. She was planning stories that went. Nowhere and were illustrative straight of of nothing. I could fathom and all the while whole precious. Expensive minutes elapsed in which I could neither wine nor complain my way to mental health. It felt positively wasteful. The doctor Moore's office was in a large old echoey building downtown. Our appointments happened around dusk and in my memory. It's always the dusk of winter cold and Wet Montreal winter from behind her desk lit by a desk lamb. She spoke of giving birth to One's authentic. Self a self. There wasn't all tangled up regrets about the past or consumed by anxiety over the Future Aka. A self that didn't sound sound very Jonathan Goldstein. Any in every session. Dr Mueller repeated the same refrain. You must give birth to yourself. What could she possibly mean? I asked my girlfriend at the time. Barbara was working on her bachelor's in psychology and in my darker moments I felt certain in her relationship with me was a part of her fieldwork. It might be a gestalt thing. She said uncertainly. But I don't know that stall therapy is is even a thing anymore week after week. Dr Mueller and I sat in a dark room as I tried in vain to birth myself on a bad day. She would reprimand me for not doing as she instructed. On a good day she would say that I was very very close. My authentic self. Alf was crowning. Was this just her line. I wondered something. Dr Mueller told all her patients I grew increasingly frustrated straighted. I was still lost still waking up at noon still spending my days watching video rentals and smoking cigarettes in my parents. Basemen still showing up for appointments with Doctor Mueller for conversations that felt as pointless as life itself finally after being told for the teen time that the miracle of birth was Ni- I grew up set. It's hard to hear this year after year. I said I told her that we must be doing something wrong. It is not working. She said because view she spoke the words quietly but firmly I was taken aback. It had to be something more than just me if only slightly lately maybe a tiny bit because of her I mean she was sitting in the room as much as I was even in my insecure state. Her conclusion fell off and I said so it is because of you. She repeated was a therapist even allowed to say that at how could she refused to share in this failure. I think maybe this should be our last session. I said ending things with something I've been thinking of doing for a while but you have yet to find a philosophy. She said words to live by. That will ease self birth. Not everyone needs a philosophy sophy. I responded that is true. She said but you do at the end of the hour. Dr Mueller rose from behind Hind her desk and open the door for me. She smiled warmly sincerely. No edge at all the blame. She cast in combination with the simplicity. Ever ever goodbye was chilling. She shook my hand ending one of the most intense personal relationships. I'd had up until that point in my life And then just like that. I was back in that echoey hallway wondering what the Hell had just happened. It's a question I still don't have of an answer for when you're young because the world is small and new so many experiences confuse you but as you grow older under the odd things fall into place and you look back with something approaching clarity. But after thirty years my experience with Dr Mueller Somehow feels more mysterious mysterious more difficult to Parse than it did when I was twenty. You go to therapy to form a more coherent narrative out of your life yet. Paradoxically Doc Szekely. The chapter of my life with Dr Mueller remains one that I've never really been able to make sense of and so I still find myself asking. who was this person and she bad therapist or was I a bad patient? Although Dr Mueller died in two thousand three I recently realized there might still be away to find out. ooh In recent months I find myself moving away from traditional psychotherapy and towards a more improvisational mental health regimen. That he is I stay up late twelve drinking beer and watching old movies. It's wild watching at close range. A Sean Penn.. Christopher Walken DOC and film from the nineteen eighties that I realize I'd already seen it in a college class. And with this recollection I remember the professor who taught the class and the one time I'd seen him outside of his classroom. It was in Dr Mueller's waiting room. I'd seen him exiting in her office or at least I think I had. The moment was long ago so fleeting but if true this memory had the power to tear open the potential wormhole connecting me to my past as a kid in therapy for the first time I had no perspective on Dr Mueller but here was was a full fledged adult patient of hers. A professor no less. Who'd have the experience and insight to cast the decisive vote in the? Was it me. Or was it Mueller referendum. Was She just weirdly. Hung up on this notion of self birth or was I just too young to get it with the movie paused in the background. I pace the floor of my living room. A plan begins to take shape. All I have to do is break all the rules of therapy of polite light society and track down a now elderly professor who taught at a school I dropped out of to inquire fitted been him. I'd seen exiting my therapist's office thirty years ago. Yes I agree nodding my head to no one in particular three beers into a six pack of tall boys at two in the morning morning. This was an excellent idea. Fine the man who can supply context what was wrong with a little context The only problem was after thinking as hard as okay could. I could not remember the professor's name. How long has it been? It's been a while. Oh Man Yeah it has been a while. Aw a visit to. The schools website tells me nothing about my old professor but I do discover that the present chair of department is an old college friend. Dana Anna and I haven't spoken in close to twenty years. Our things with you. They're good. They're good yeah. Things are quiet. I've been here tells me how much he enjoys teaching English and and I tell her that I'd recently been guilty reading Madame Bovery a book on the required reading list back when we were in school that I never actually read and it must of started it because I found some of like my margin Nalia that makes me like hate myself when I was at a underlying this whole paragraph in the margin i. I wrote Espanol Dan. You'll ism question mark and what could even have possibly meant eventually. I explained the reason for my call how I'm in search of a professor from her department. Whose name I could not remember? But who may or may not have had a ringside seat to the development of my young psyche I proceed to describe the professor the Best I can The guy had kind of like black. earliest hair may be kind of balding. His first name might have been rob could have been Bob. I offer Dana all the detail I can. He seemed to enjoy joy chewing gum. Once during the warmer weather he might have taught while wearing a Panama hat. None of that is ringing. A bell with me After a while I just give well thank you. It was nice. It was nice talking to you no problem it was nice talking to you too. It's as we're about to get off the phone. One more small unhelpful detail pops into my head and immediately out of my mouth. It's a surprise. The price mustache at some point. Is it possible. His name was Maury Maury. That is the guy after the break. Professor Maury in this episode of heavyweight is brought to you by Bonobos but oh oh bose is a menswear company that wants to help every man find his fit that means embracing who you are and finding your own style this fall. bimbos is celebrating men across the country who found their fit in their own way visit. BONOBOS DOT COM that's B. O. N. B. O. S. dot com to read their stories. Then and start finding the clothes that will help you look and feel like your best self enter Promo Code heavyweight at checkout to get fifteen percent off your first order order with more fits more sizes more colors and more styles however you fed Bonobos fitzhugh this episode of heavyweight is brought to you by best buy best buy wants to help you shop for the latest technology this holiday season maybe be a looking for a new sound system to give the podcast lover in your life or maybe WanNa get something for yourself perhaps technology to turn your regular home into smart home. Whatever the case best buy has blueshirts ready to answer all of your tech related questions and help you find the right gift? And they're offering being deals all season long. You can talk to a blue shirt in store today or visit best buy dot com to shop online. Jonathan Hey maury through. Yeah they're me. Okay Yeah I can hear you where I am where I am the where Maury is is Jamaica sitting with his neighbors in the communal yard and after all these years he still professorial. Bob Song In women no crying you know Georgie. live-fire line in Tenement Yard and in change. You can't really understand what that means that you you actually been in one of them. Maury spends half the year in Jamaica and as soon as he got my message asking if we could speak he phoned right back every so often. He's interrupted by the neighbor's daughter. Alexi enter toddler. Sister Tessie Alexi Petiot take her into to the yard. Maury a Jew as been working on a documentary with Bob Marley's granddaughter arasa about the relationship between Jews News and rosters and their cultural overlaps like wet overland groups that are quite Orthodox. They don't eat pork while I do find the subject of Maurice Documentary semi interesting. The questions I'm asking are not in service to that semi interest but rather to staving off the moment I have to announce the invasive nature of my phone call blocks from the same biblical injunction due to consider Jews Warren Beard. The whole point of therapy is to have a sacred space separated from the rest of the world free from the judgment of others saw in here I was phoning up a stranger to ask mind if I poke around around your sacred space. A bit any heartaches on the therapist that John Crazy you or are you like still not maury would have every free right to banged down the phone on my face and so I keep deferring is the russify is a connected to the lost tribes There could be like it's not really we go back and forth for almost half an hour all the while Maury never ask a six way. I'm phoning on the loading Jonathan. Hi Tessie having exhausted every possible. Way To put off asking my question every digression every subject change every attempt to keep Maurice two two year old neighbor on the phone. I'm left with no recourse but to finally get to the point of my weird out of nowhere social call so I just dive in anyway So so yes should. I'll I'll tell you why I'm phoning So I I have a pretty pretty strange question and and I'm I'm just GonNa say that right out the gate basically the the reason I'm calling you who is because there was a moment where our lives crossed and just totally in a very coincidental way and I was reminded of what yeah crappy sets. Think about that just as I'm finally getting to it who arrived a tiny little Plastic caustic rap videos. We'd running out with it. I didn't know what you would do with it. She's not going to smoke it capital interact with. I have kept doing it. Yeah Luntz wants that Cheech and Chong Gas Shenanigans are behind us. I resume mealy mouthing my way through a procession of preambles. You know don't i. I don't WanNa make you uncomfortable or anything. I want you to be comfortable answering this. And if you don't want to totally fine I used to see this therapist and a half this memory and it might be an I might be missing remembering even is doing in the waiting room and seeing you leave her ause. It was a doctor Moore Maury so unfazed by my question. I'm inclined mind to wonder whether he's bogarted little tessies joint without any ado he just jumps right in telling me. He began seeing Dr Muller during a creative block and continued to see her for four years. I found her very interesting. I also found her very somewhat. I I don't remember exactly what age she was the kind of on the older side for Dixie diving and then there were the thing about the horses which I can't remember Marina Swap Memories. It's validating DACA Mueller. There was odd anybody where to glossman unless they alien with six arms is she just a USO. You know something. I've got that feeling. It should some sort of Alien Maury remembers how angry should get if he was even a few minutes late. How harsh she could be in her method? That always seems ah bit interesting to talk about what happened to six years old. You know it's like what are you going to do now. What is your next step? Yeah Yeah even really that interested in feeling it was more the you're there see that's the term that you constantly us. What is your concept? What is your concept of how you are going to do this? You'll have to formulate a concept. I haven't yet. I think she thought that I wasn't formulating of the concept. I tell Maury about the note that Dr Mueller and I had parted on. Has she'd been crossed because of my failure to birth myself when asked if of self birth with something they'd also talked about. He says no but I had the same feeling with her You know quite working the way it should and eventually she just just say. I don't think you need me anymore. She didn't say you know This is useless. We're not getting where she just she actually said. I think we've gone immune to where we want to get. I'm maybe she was right. I don't know you know. Well that sounds kind of like a nice way to end therapy as far as those things go. We're sure he wasn't handed a certificate with the word cured stamped on it getting to where you want to go as more dignified end to therapy. Be The night managed. Maybe it wasn't with honors at least Maury graduated rather than dropped out just as one of the strangest telephone calls of my life comes to an end Maury casually mentions that he just so happens is to be in touch with another of Dr Mueller's former patients and one who unlike the both of us wasn't confused by Dr Mueller. At all more encouraged. Fridges me to give them a call. I've seen a couple of therapists over the years. And she wasn't my favorite after after a breakup left him devastated. Michael went to Dr Muller for help. She wasn't crazy about listening so much I mean in fact she did did a lot of the talking and it got into a kind of WHO's talking now competition she's reprimanded me bridge. I thought was kind of strange. Michael's memories spark one of my own one day during a fit of coughing. I ask Doctor Mueller for water order. There was a sink in the corner of a room but no cop I needed a glass of water and she. She told you to go to the thing can use your hands Right Cup Jehan. Yeah how do you know 'cause she told me to do the same thing. hunching over the saying cupping my hands together to catch the flow of water from Dr Muller spout. I felt like someone from the Bible like a bear until now I've been alone with my bestial memories no more But when I bring up the business of giving birth to myself as in. How nutty was all that? I'm surprised by his response. Car member remember ever saying anything like that to me. Boom high tonic juice. It studiously judy. Okay Jerry. I'm Michael has put me in touch with yet. Another patient of Dr Mueller's the person who recommended he see her in the first place. Because unlike Michael Maurienne me which by the way sounds like a Jewish folk trio. Judy loved Dr Mueller so much so that she always refers to her as the fantastic. Dr Mueller Judy's a painter. who began seeing Dr Mueller in the mid seventies because Judy's lack of confidence in her own work mark was threatening to derail her career here? Yes I hear you know all right. How better is that better? Jonathan I think it is. I think it's yeah I think so. Judy says Dr Mueller's approach when beyond talk beyond even the confines of the office he went to my gallery to see my I work and the gallery dealer greet her and showed her. I work Sure Judy attacked in therapy about herself. Doubts as an artist. But you never would have anticipated anticipated. Dr Mueller actually going to see her work meanwhile I had gotten a phone call from the gallery. diener saying who would. Aw Cut people off. I mean it was like really I couldn't help. Wow Yeah. She had a very severe there but the point is judy says the doctor Muehler loved what she saw that day and hearing that at that particular moment in her life from someone. There's no nonsense as Dr. Mueller gave judy the confidence she was looking for. I just accepted her. I guess it is in crisies. VR Beehive She was one hundred percent in my court. She stepped in in moments that were difficult. The Judy experienced a different side of Dr Muller. When that I never could have even imagined and the more we talk walk the more I realized how different our experiences had been while my doctor? Mueller had been largely inscrutable. Judy's Dr Mueller loved the Beatles. Judy Judy got to know a doctor. Mueller who always wanted to be an actor who took vacations alone to go scuba diving and describe swimming alongside a man to ray as one of the most most meaningful encounters of her life. Judy's Dr Mueller was the type of person who blushed after making a slight joke. Who got a look of satisfaction when she hit on on something deep and this is why on the wall of Judah Art Studio side pictures of her friends her family and her dogs hangs a photograph of of the fantastic Dr Mueller Dr Moolah devised a treatment plan uniquely tailored to Judy Judy and needed confidence and reassurance? and Dr Mueller went out and gave it to her if she done that for Judy. Perhaps you'd also done the same for other patients with that in mind. Ask Judy if during the course of her therapy doctor. Mueller had ever mentioned giving birth to herself. But Judy has no idea what I'm talking king about after thirty years of obsessing it dawns on me the doctor Mueller might have tailored this notion of self birth specifically to me and my mother was a violent bipolar manic depressive. This is Judy's husband husband. Neil who also was very very intelligent brilliant. She's a painter. She was capable of a lot but she was also. You're very aggressive and unable to be a mother. Neal and Judy were newlyweds. Judy encouraged him to start. Start seeing Dr Mueller for the most part things in Neil's life we're going great. His career was taking off and he finally felt saddled who when it came to dealing with his mother. Neil says he had no control should phone at all hours sometimes even threatening suicide one night she phones saying she was about to jump off a balcony and so that very night neil rush to the airport to fly to her when he arrived at her home he expected to see her body on the ground outside but she was inside her apartment Hartman. She just wants to see him. What finally pushed him to the breaking point was the time he called her from his hotel while away on a business trip and Dan? She says you're having an affair and she gets into this vile bio about me having an affair and betraying my marriage. I'm going going to tell your wife. Neil wasn't worried that his wife would believe his mother. He was worried about the lanes. His mother was willing to go to to assert control. I told my wife I said. Don't worry I'm taking care of it. You know she's crazy again. She's leaving these messages. But I'm making it better. I'm taking care of it. Whatever I said and my wife began to cry? She said you'll never take care of it. This will never go. Neal was a full grown man with no idea how to deal with his mother desperate. He played Dr Muller the threatening voice voice messages his mother had left doctrine eulogised. She bowed her head and she just looked down and she said Oh. Wow she was like really like Oh. Wow Oh wow. And she gave me a script she said okay. Say this neal still has the original piece of paper upon which he dictated. Dr Muller's words. It's a little kind of yellowy. The two by four pieces of pavement It says here Dear mother what you've done has done damage to my life from here on you can sustain a relationship with me if you behave even positive constructive way but at the moment. It's better that we don't talk. I think that's kind of world I mean there's nothing really more kneel acknowledges that it wasn't much it really just a couple of lines but for him it was enough. It was the first time he'd ever dared talk to his mother. This way it was hard for me to read this. You Know I. I was scared after he read it. Meal says he and his Mother didn't speak for ten years which sounds insane for people who have normal parents. Some you know I mean I'm always measuring this but Chino is never gonNA come back until she started to behave better and so a decade passed and then one day hey my mother called me and she was totally cooled out she just said I'm really sorry. Wow I get it I understand. You were right. Please forgive me. Please forgive me at her voice. Had all of that in it wasn't she was really meant it. And from that day forward Lord if you can believe it we had a relationship after that a loving one she never lashed out or was aggressive. It was over And I had that relationship with up until my mother passed away a couple years ago. Whatever it was never would've had those those final few years with her? I have it because of the sessions with Dr Mueller. So so imagine. Excuse me so imagine that we think about Dr Miller alert Toward the end of Neal's therapy doctor. Mueller was diagnosed with cancer. It made her weak and in the last year she would disappear during their sessions for long stretches in the bathroom. The last it's time I saw her she. She shook my hand goodbye. I was very brave. Gracious dignified thing. The way she did it she said. Good luck I mean. She meant that she was like saying. Good luck with all of you. All of you kneel just good luck and she looked me in the eye and anyway so she shook my hand and forever's Lake burnt into my brain about a year after Neil stopped singer at the age of seventy seven. Dr Mueller died of cancer As with me Dr Muehler wasn't very interested in learning about Neal's past but unlike me from time to Time Neil did learn something about hers Bruce particularly towards the end as the bigger issues in his therapy receded and a sort of friendship emerged. They just talked sometimes a better better family life back in Germany. I think they were fairly wealthy. I think of right professional wealthy family. Her father was a doctor. They had a beautiful home. Tom Many stories and then The Nazis came and they absconded. They're in their home and used it for headquarters and her bitterness about the war. Is that as a German. She was regarded as the enemy. So I think that kind of smarted. She constantly constantly talked about Jews not the only victims and it was confusing her for her to work with Jews. I think she'd never said that. But I I think that you know his a lot of Jewish people in Montreal and the attitude toward sermon so I think that had to play back on her own wounds because she exposed her ones and I think I always thought that her we were. Also we're a part of her therapy Was Jewish clientele merely a coincidence. Or were we as Neil believed part of Dr Mueller's own therapy and if we were what was she trying to heal. was there some part of her past that. You couldn't simply stick in a desk drawer and never bring up again. Dr Mueller had never been very interested in my past asked. I was now quite interested in hers in. This episode of heavyweight is brought to you by squarespace Jonathan. I think it's time you went legit for. Hey Josh editor at Gimblett media with all due respect wet in the world are you talking about put my moonlighting side project and side-hustle have all been cleared by HR Jonathan. I'm talking about how you find. Old stuffed animals animals in the garbage dust them off stitch-up torn little ears and noses and south from the back of your mom station wagon blissed out Dum dums at major music festivals. That's not illegal. Is it legit businessmen but in that I pay my taxes. Jonathan Nothing legit unless it has a website does your quote unquote business. Business have a website. What's a website? Oh brother I've learned that a website is one way to legitimize your side hustle and squarespace makes it. It's easy to make one. They offer beautiful. Templates that you can customize to your liking to get started visit squarespace dot com slash heavyweight for a free trial when you're ready to launch us the offer code heavyweight to save ten percent off your first purchase of a website or domain that's where space dot com slash heavyweight offer offer code heavyweight to save ten percent. Dr Moore's Obituary mentions the son Bruno. Oh He's a retired computer systems consultant. He agreed to talk but didn't WanNa be recorded when asked about his mother's life during the war he tells me all he has has our snippets. The Past Bruno tells me didn't come up much as dinner. Conversation given his mother's feelings about the past it makes sense would he does know is this. She was born Anna Corolla Cooper and she was an athlete. She played tennis competitively and was a strong enough swimmer swimmer to attempt an escape during the allied invasion by swimming across the Rhine as she swam Bruno says snipers from the other side fired. Her Her Brennan tells me grandfather was the doctor who was eventually captured by the Russians and sent to a Soviet prison camp. These camps were notoriously brutal with hundreds of thousands of German captives dying from violence malnutrition or forced labor for years. Dr Muller didn't know whether her father author was alive or dead on the day of an allied bombing campaign that would devastate hometown. Doctor Family didn't have time to make it to the local bomb shelter. Turn which was fortunate because it was destroyed instead. The family hid in the garden. Shed which turned out to be the only part of the House that survived if the devastation. The bombing wasn't supposed to hit them. That hard annika is journalist who lives near Ephron were Dr Mueller grew up. They were actually aiming at the harbor in Cologne but they had the order not to return with all the weapons. Like get rid of all your your bombs before you get back home. Don't go round flying with all the bombs but just drop them somewhere and so unfortunately they were dropped on F oven. I commissioned Annika to find out anything she could about the Mueller's so she'd wandered the streets of Efren looking for traces of the family but most of the people who lived in Efren during the war are now gone. I ask if she was able to find out anything about Dr Mueller's father anything that might elaborate on his capture by the Russians. What I did come across and that kind of struck me was that he was a Nazi doctors? Union at the time so the doctors in this union their job was it to tell people From a medical perspective why one race would be superior to another now the race. eugenics exactly the mission of the National Social Esteban as the union was called was to make sure doctors were aligned with the Nazi spirit. We can't know for certain that Dr Mueller's father was enforced to join. But we do know that by the end of the war half of the ninety thousand doctors and Germany. Germany were not members of the astro went in other words. You didn't have to be in the union to practice medicine on top of that. There's this he wasn't just a member but he is listed as like the Kaiser Onsite which okay how do I translate. The rough translation is that Dr Mueller's father was an upper level manager in the Nazi physicians. League he oversaw district of two million people while it's impossible to know is private intentions and beliefs given the prestige of his position. It's unlikely he was a secret hero of the resistance. It's a leader of his rank let alone a medical leader would at the very least been aware of the systematic sterilization an and execution of those deemed undesirable among them. The so called mentally. Ill know under Dr Mueller might have felt compelled to leave the past asked where it was. What are your recollections of Herbert? And his wife no good people. I'm proud to know. I'm glad to be their friend once again again. I find myself speaking to a German psychiatrist and Montreal. His name is Dr Gert Morgenstern. And he was close to Dr Mueller and her husband Herbert both friends and colleagues. They would gather at Dr Morgan Stearns home in a quiet neighborhood in Montreal were Dr Mueller's husband. Herbert and he played music together. Herbert on the flu Dr Morgenstern on the Piano Dr Mueller would wander in and out listening to them play. She spent many hours in Dr Morgan Stearns Home Dr Morgenstern San Mark explained at the beginning of the conversation that his father might not have much to offer in recent years. His memory has begun onto falter and much of Dr Morgan's past has become loss to him. But since this might be the only chance I get to talk to someone who actually knew Dr Mueller who who can speak to her as a friend. We decided to give it a try. I asked Dr Morgenstern. If he remembers spending time with the Mueller's yes I think so. It was pleasant. We look forward to it. Mark says has his father's memory fails he's held onto the happy memories and allowed a lot out of the painful ones to go like the Mueller's Dr Morgenstern was a German who emigrated to Canada. But unlike the Mueller's he was a Jew he fled. Let Germany in one thousand nine hundred eighty seven a year before Kristallnacht. You both immigrated from Germany. was that a subject that came up. I don't remember life during the war. I don't remember any of that so she never talked with you about what she went through during the war. Not that I remember and we talked about was what we were doing and what we were planning to do. Dr Morgenstern says they never talked about the past that they didn't talk about their religions. Then even talk about psychology and they never discussed Germany. Mark says that after fleeing his father never spoken a word of German again so if they didn't talk about the past what did they do together make music and talk and what. What did you like to talk about wrote the music? We were playing because he was a fellow therapist as well as her friend. I asked him what he knows about. Dr After Mueller's practice her approach throughout our conversation. Dr Morgenstern Answers are brief a few words at most but when I asked him about Dr Dr Mueller's insistence on self birth and whether it was an idea that she tailored to my situation or some obscure therapeutic method Dr Morgenstern grows animated. Did she wasn't it wasn't doing a method. She invented what she said. It's a continual process had an attitude toward life in other words. You're you're actively producing your future in your present. You are decisions to make the have memories to select act and you're building your future. That way never actually finished giving berthier. So it Ed Never Completed Act. Well I take in my inability to give birth to myself as the failing of either myself for Dr Mueller. He wasn't really. Maybe Dr Mueller telling me over and over that birth was imminent was her way of saying there is no end point. It's just living and that's the point. Anna Corolla composed the daughter of a doctor who served a regime that treated the mentally ill as a blight upon humanity left Germany to become Anna Corolla Muehler who became not only a doctor but a psychiatrist and when who tended to Jews or anyone what else who needed her help you are not your past. You are not your father or your family or at least you do not have to be you. Were the thing that you make. which is a lesson Dr? Mueller must have had to learn for herself before she could pass it on to others before she could pass it on to me Even though I still don't have with Dr Muller Michael Affi I eventually came to see that. What's it's the US was never the right question? The most important things in life have no use. And maybe this is the closest. I've come to words to let's by And now that the turning to goodwill will now last month's rent they take this moment if we mansard if we felt around accidentally this episode of heavyweight was produced by me Jonathan Goldstein along with Stevie Lane. Ba Parker and Colella hold. The show is edited by Hor Hejaz. Special special thanks to Emily Khandan Tim. Howard Eneco Vissel Sir Richard Evans? Dr Robert Proctor. Alex Blumberg Lewis Back Emmanuel. Bury David Berman and Jackie Cohen Bob. Lord mixed the episode with original music by Christine Fellows John K Samson Blue Dot sessions and Bobby Lord additional music credits can be found founded on our website Gimblett media dot com slash heavyweight. Our theme song is by the weaker. Dan's courtesy of epitaph records and our ad music is by Shaw. Follow all of us on twitter at heavyweight or email us at heavyweight at Gimblett Media Dot Com. You can listen for free on spotify or wherever you get your

Doctor Mueller Dr Muller Dr Mueller Judy Dr Mueller Dr Mueller Dr Moolah Dr After Mueller Jonathan Goldstein Dr Gert Morgenstern Dr Moore Dr Morgenstern San Mark Mueller Judy Judy Jonathan Hey maury Germany Gimblett media Jonathan Dr Muehler Montreal Dr Morgenstern Dr Robert Proctor
Ep. 387 - Mueller Collapses On Capitol Hill

The Michael Knowles Show

46:47 min | 1 year ago

Ep. 387 - Mueller Collapses On Capitol Hill

"Democrats hopes were dashed as former counsel Robert Muller disintegrated in real time on Capitol Hill today we will examine what he said and more importantly what he didn't say then Gallup finds that Americans care about one issue above all all the others as we head into two thousand twenty will analyze what it means for president trump and for the Democrats running against him finally Colorado State University publishes an Orwellian inclusive language guide that reveals the truth about why the left loves political correctness all that and more on Michaels and this is the Michael Knowles show first of all. Let's get one thing absolutely clear. Nobody cares about Robert Muller. Nobody cares about the Mueller investigation. Nobody cares about the Russian collusion conspiracy. Nobody cares about any of that. Okay everyone has moved on other than people on twitter and partisan Democrats who were upset that they were able to impeach the president who were upset that the president wasn't a traitor who was working on behalf of Russia. That doesn't matter what does matter however is what Robert Muller's testimony today means for twenty twenty. The investigation itself is Old News. We've we've we've done it. It was old news before it even began but the testimony today actually does matter in the main takeaway is this was an absolutely devastating day for Democrats now. I couldn't have predicted that. I figured I figured what was going to happen. Is Muller releases report it exonerates trump on colluding with Russia. It refuses to exonerate trump on obstruction of justice so the D._O._J.. Finally had to come to that conclusion and say trump didn't obstruct justice. They weren't GonNa go after interim. Then Muller has his press conference. He writes his angry letter so the Democrats at this point think Muller's got some more fire left in him we maybe we can bring him out and fill in all the gaps that we weren't able to get out of the Muller report so I would have expected there. It would be something anything for the Democrats to grab here. What happens surprised a lot of people today which was that the guy just completely collapsed? He just fell apart. Okay there. Were there were two moments that the Democrats got today say that they're going to be playing over and over again on the left wing cable news channels. They're excited for exactly two moments. The first one is when Bob Muller says that you can indict a former president report did not conclude he did not commit obstruction of justice. Is that correct that is correct and what about total exoneration. Did you actually totally exonerate the president well now in fact you reports expressly states that it does not exonerate the president it does okay that that was actually the second moment but the first woman is they say that you can indict a former president as well Bob Muller admits can you. You can't go after the president while he's in office but you can't go you can go after the president after he's out of office. This is not a comment on trump. This is a comment on the the office of the president period. This is simply a procedural answer legal reality now <hes> okay. That's fine if Democrats wanted to hear that I guess it sort of sounds like Muller Ken go after trump or they're gonna go after trump once he leaves office. The only other thing that Democrats got was when Muller said he didn't exonerate president trump on obstruction which we already knew so this was the highlight for Democrats testimony today president trump walks away from this episode the Victor and here's why not even because certainly not nothing that president trump did but because caused Bob Muller looked weak and confused the high point as Muller says I didn't exonerate him entirely. Okay you got that we already knew that from the report but already from the Muller Report President Trump comes out looking pretty good loyd muller didn't totally exonerate him on obstruction which was bad for trump but it did exonerate him on collusion which is the actual question so pretty good today made president trump's victory cleaner because what it did for from I'm giving more fodder for partisan Democrats it actually cast doubt on the Russia investigation itself on the whole thing and frankly on Muller's role in the whole thing the biggest loser today probably was Bob Muller because the the Democrats had pinned all of their hopes on Muller and and therefore when he fell the Democrats got her to a Lesser Degree Democrats were the big losers from today Muller wouldn't even Grant Democrats their main talking point from their own report so Democrat Democrat representative Hakeem Jeffries leaped in there to say that there is clear evidence that Donald Trump obstructed justice after muller said. I didn't totally exonerate him. He comes in. He says that's right. He obstructed Justice Muller Actually Shut Him Down Investigation Asian found substantial evidence that when the president ordered Don mcgann to fire the special counsel and then lie about it Donald Trump one committed in obstructive AC two connected to an official preceding three did so with corrupt intent those are the elements of obstruction of justice. This is the United States of America. No one is above the law no one the president must be held accountable one one way or the other. Let me let me just say if I might. I don't subscribe necessarily to your way you analyze that I'm not saying it's out of the ballpark. I'm not supportive of that analytical charge. Thank you thank you thank you for saying that. What I said is complete B._S.? So it all went downhill from there for the Russia conspiracy theorists the Republicans jump in Republican Representative John Ratcliffe asked Bob Muller about this this issue of exonerating or not exonerating and he pointed out that Muller's language in this report is bizarre. It's bizarre to say I couldn't totally perfectly conclude that he didn't commit a crime so I don't exonerate him and what representative Ratcliffe asked is. Is there any other case that he can recall of the D._O._J.. Choosing not to exonerate because innocence was not conclusively determined example other than Donald Trump or the justice department determined airman than investigated person was not exonerated because their innocence was not conclusively determined I cannot but this is unique well. You can't time short. I've got five minutes. Let's just leave it at you can't find it because I'll tell you why it doesn't exist this of course not of course doesn't exist now. This is all just the setup because only now do things start to get really weird and it raises big questions about Bob Muller himself. We'll get to that in a second but I if you were not paying off your credit card bills every month. You were almost certainly paying hundreds if not thousands of dollars in interest every year let Linden club help you out with lending club you can consolidate your debt or pay off credit cards with one fixed monthly payments. Since two thousand seven lending club has helped millions of people regain control of their finances with affordable fixed rate personal loans. I can speak a little bit from experience. It's not even that I'm so terrible with money. You know I'm running up crazy debt. It's just that I like most dudes that I know oh are lazy when it comes to my finances and I put it on the credit card and I forget about it and I don't think about how much money I am wasting when you just use those high interest credit cards. Don't do it guys. 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S. all loans made by one bank member F._D._i._C. Equal Housing Lender so you've got muller saying I didn't totally exonerate trump but I'm not saying that he's guilty of committing obstruction is guilty of this crime then in things start to get weird so muller just starts stonewalling and this is particularly with regard to the infamous steele dossier that steele dossier you'll remember was the report that was uncorroborated. Uncorroborated never proven totally bogus in many cases report that this Intel X Intelligence Guy Christopher Steele made almost certainly with Russian intelligence services and he made it for fusion G._P._S. which is an opposition research firm that did worked for Clinton and the Democrats this is central to the whole Russia conspiracy hoax and Muller stonewalls on it here is representative Steve Shabby asking Muller about fusion and about about Christopher Steele when discussing the June two thousand sixteen trump tower meeting you reference quote the firm that produced steel reporting unquote the name of that firm was fusion. G._P._S. is correct and you're on page one zero three zero three. That's correct volume two when you talk about the the firm that produced the steel reporting the name of the firm that produced that was fusion G._P._S.. Yes is that correct. I'm not familiar with with that was it's not it's not a trick question. It was fusion G._P._S.. Now Fusion G._P._S. produced the opposition research document widened widely known as the steele dossier and the owner of Fusion G._P._S.. was someone named Glenn Simpson or are you familiar with outside of my purview. Okay outside of your purview. That's the whole investigation. The steele dossier on which the entire thing is predicated is outside of your purview. The steele dossier is the beginning of the Russia conspiracy. The steele dossier yea was the predicate for the spying took place the spying on members of the trump campaign that started this whole three year ordeal and Muller seems like he doesn't know he seems like he's ignorant of it. I mean you have that line from the Congressman Congressman says okay and this is all part of this was put together by Fusion G._P._S. is that right and Muller Looks bewildered dazed and confused he says well I I don't not totally and the congressman has to lean in and say it's not a trick question. It is fusion fusion G._P._S.. It's in your own report. Muller seems totally ignorant of it so then they go further they start asking muller not just about fusion G._p._S. which is the firm put it together but Christopher Steele himself the expert intelligence analyst who ooh put together the entire report muller doesn't seem to know very much about Christopher Steele either. Can you state with confidence that the steele dossier was not part of Russia's disinformation campaign as I said at the opening statement the that part of the building of the case predated me and by at least ten months Paul Manafort's alleged crimes regarding tax evasion predated no problem charging them and matter of fact this steele dossier predated the attorney general and he didn't have any problem answering the question when Senator Cornyn asked the Attorney General the exact question. I asked you director the Attorney General said and I'm quoting no I can't state that with confidence and that's one of the awesome reviewing unconcerned about it and I don't think it's entirely speculative steel steel Goo Christopher or I don't know your name doesn't ring any bell does it. This was a great question from Republican Congressman Matt Gates. Unfortunately Gates went on a little bit too long and his question he should have just gone in there and got in the clean hit of you because here's what he said he said. Let's talk about Christopher. Steele Muller says well that predates my experience in the investigation so I can't talk about it and Gates as that great follow up. He says well Manafort's tax problems predate your entrance into the investigation. You're willing to talk about that. Why is it you're willing to talk about things that make trump look bad but you're not willing to talk about things that make Democrats look bad and maybe make trump look pretty good? Why it's pretty selective about what you're willing to talk about and what you're not willing to talk about? It was a good hit. I don't mean to knock congressman gates too much but it should have been cleaner hit. He should have ended it right there and let Muller Stammer which is what he did for much of the rest of the the hearing the fact remains either way muller totally punted on steal. This is pretty weird behavior to central figures and organizations in this Russia Investigation Gatien Fusion G._P._S. put the dossier together took the Clintons money took the Democrats money and Christopher Steele the guy who actually wrote the thing that research they put together launches <music> the spying launches the investigation and Bob Muller the head investigator. The special counsel doesn't seem to know anything about either of them not even that he's unwilling to talk about it that he doesn't seem to oh steel who'd Fusion G._P._S. who yeah I never heard of her. This is difficult to believe it raises. The question is muller playing dumb or does Muller actually no not know what's going on in his own investigation. How much does Bob Muller know about his own investigation? I guess it could be either. He could be playing dumb because he doesn't want to put himself in at risk of committing perjury or he doesn't want to make himself look to nakedly political war because when you play dumb it generally enderle works to your advantage in politics. Bill Clinton has bragged about this George. Bush's bragged about this playing a little below. Your mark is very helpful but I don't know maybe he's not playing dumb. Maybe he actually doesn't really know about these things. If that is the case even if I'm willing to believe that this raises an a more troubling question if Bob Muller doesn't know what's going on in his investigation who does because this has been the argument the whole time is that this investigation is extremely partisan artisan. It's being staffed by never trumpers who hate the president's guts who who have been caught in leaked text messages saying that they want to undermine the two thousand sixteen election and prevent people from electing Donald Trump and all these guys have been caught as part of the Muller Investigation and the response the whole time was okay sure there are a couple of bad apples but Bob Muller is a man beyond reproach. He's a former marine. He's an F._B._i.. Director under Republicans you couldn't possibly impugn his motives or. His reputation or his competence why don't know if he doesn't know anything about his own investigation then I guess that kind of takes him off the table. Doesn't it if we don't if he doesn't know anything about his own investigation who does Peter Peter Struck Andy McCabe Lisa page who knows about it who was actually running it who actually wrote this thing if not muller or is muller playing dumb don't think this is some partisan attack. 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Get the special offer the way to do it is to text Knowles Canaan W. E. S. Two forty eight forty eight forty eight that is W.. L. E. S. Two forty eight forty eight forty eight Canada W l._E._S.. Two four eight four eight four eight message and data rates may apply so is Bob Muller playing dumb or does Bob Muller really have no idea what's going on in his investigation. If it's the latter than who ran the thing who wrote the thing who is behind this witch-hunt don't accuse accuse me of having some partisan attack year that I'm carrying water for Republicans or something people from both sides of the aisle were absolutely flummoxed by this performance today Mike Cerna Vich you know the right wing independent journalist he suggested that the hearing be adjourned because it constituted elder abuse against Bob Muller looking a little long in the tooth on the other side of the Aisle David Axelrod chief strategist for Barack Obama. He tweeted out simply quote. This is very very painful even tweeted out later. He said you know this is this is a very delicate subject but when Muller testified before Congress six years ago he was a lot sharper than he is today at one point. I kid you not at one point. Muller couldn't remember number which President appointed him attorney in Boston Director Muller. I'm disappointed that some have questioned your motives throughout this process and I wanna take a moment to remind the American people of who you are and your exemplary service to our country you are a marine you served in Vietnam and earned a bronze star and a purple heart correct which president appointed you to become the United States attorney for Massachusetts which senator which President which I think that was President Bush according to my notes it was President Ronald Reagan had the honor to do so under whose at my mistake Oh oh man this is genuinely you pity the guy I mean he evokes a lot of sympathy here even from the beginning he the question was which President appointed U._S. Attorney and he said which Senator Senators don't appoint you U._S.. Attorney presidents do that. There's no <hes> which President Bush no Reagan like. It's not a trick question the same thing with fusion G._P._S.. This isn't a trick question. We're just establishing your credibility. That was a friendly question from a Democrat really bizarre aw look he might be senile. He might have been off his meds or something or he might be playing dumb either way. The most revealing part of this testimony is that he punted on one question so you saw buildup. He punts Christopher Steele. He punts on Fusion G._P._S.. Oh I don't know little what what what what do I know but then he's asked a very pointed question on how the investigation got started and people aren't really covering this but this is the key to the testimony and it's a little bit complicated so bear with me. Bob Muller is asked why Joseph Myth sued who lied to the F._B._i.. Was Not charged with a crime. If that name Josef Mifsud sounds familiar her he matters because he's this Maltese academic. He's a professor is in London. He's in Paris. He's in Malta. He's in Rome and he's clearly got ties to intelligence agencies. Some people say he's tied to Russian intelligence. Some people say as tied to Western intelligence maybe he's tied to both and he is the academic who told the trump staffer George popadopoulos that the Russians had dirt on Clinton so this whole episode the whole question of whether this Russia investigation it was a setup from the very beginning comes down to this Guy Joseph Smith sued how did George Popadopoulos the trump staffer come to find out that or here rather whether it's true or not how did he come to hear that the Russians CNN's had dirt on Hillary Clinton and then had any come to pass that information along which was the trigger that started the investigation which allowed the Obama Administration to spy on the trump campaign. How did that happen? Joseph Smith sued is at the center of this and Muller Refuses to answer the F._B._i.. Interview Joseph have sued on February tenth twenty seventeen in that interview. Mr Mifsud lied you point this out on page. One ninety three volume on denied Middleton also falsely stated in addition nips. It omitted three times. He lied to the F._B._I.. Yet you didn't charge him with the crime. Here's what I'm sorry. Did you say one ninety-three volume on one ninety three. He lied three times. You pointed out in the report important. Why didn't you charge him with the crime I can't get into internal deliberations with regard who would or would not be a lot of other people for making false? Let's remember this that's right. He charged a lot of other people for making false statements statements but you see Muller just keeps going back to this. I can't talk about internal deliberations. I can't talk about why charge somebody but I didn't charge any other people well. It's a little weird Mr Muller because on the one hand you're charging Mike Flynn Flynn for lying. You're charging Popadopoulos. You're charging all of these guys associated with trump for in some cases very minor lies but then this guy this academic Josef Mifsud who lies on. Three occasions to the F._B._I.. He doesn't get charged with a crime. Why not the obvious implication is that he has worked with Western intelligence? The obvious implication is that he's got a long standing relationship with the F._B._i.. And the intelligence community and the question that is being raised is what was miss odes role in talking to popadopoulos Josef Mifsud this this cosmopolitan academic who just floats flits around around all over the world just happened to bump into George Popadopoulos just happened to say that the Russians had dirt on Hillary Clinton which just happened to prompt the events that led to the spying on the trump campaign was that just an accident or was there some collusion not between trump and the Russians but between the Obama Administration and guys like Josef Mifsud. That's the question and that's a key question that has not been answered the F._B._I.. Yeah I did the F._B._I.. Use Mifsud to prod Popadopoulos who was working on the trump campaign. That's a crucial question and Jim. Jordan thankfully does not let up so he sets up this whole scene then he asked the question point blank what is the relationship between the intelligence community and Professor Mattson Point this out on page one of the report July Thirty First Twenty sixteen the open. The investigation based on that piece of information diplomat tells else Papadopoulos Russians have excuse me Papadopoulos tells the diplomat Russians have dirt on Clinton diplomat tells the F._b._i.. When I'm wondering is who told Papadopoulos out he find out and can't get into the evidentiary evidentiary about it? You gave us the answer page one ninety two of the report you tell us who told Joseph Myths in Josef Mifsud Guy who told Papadopoulos the mysterious professor who lives in Rome in London works at two different universities. This is the guy who told Papadopoulos. He's the guy who starts at all and when the F._B._i.. Interviews him he lies three times and yet you don't charge him with a crime you charge Rick Gates for false statements. You charged Paul Manafort for false statements you charge Michael Cohen with false statements you charge Michael Flynn a three star general with false statements but the guy who puts the country through this whole saga starts at all for three years. We've lived this now. He lies and you guys don't charge you and I'm curious as to why absolutely stellar performance from Jim Jordan here and he nails him just look at Muller's reaction when he says I want to get down onto Mifsud I want. I want to know who told Popadopoulos on the trump campaign that the Russians had dirt on Hillary and you see Muller won't let them get the words out of his Mouth Muller Jumps in. I can't talk about that. I this is nothing that I can talk about and and Jordan's got him right where he wants him because he says of course you can talk about that you already. Did it's in your report or is it your report. It's in the mullahs report. I don't know who wrote it. Clearly you don't have much of a recollection of it but you already admitted that it was miffed sued who told him again raises the question does Muller know about his own report. Is he playing dumb. He clearly looks uncomfortable here. We clearly looks nervous. He's jumping and saying we can't talk about how this whole thing started the one common thread roll. This testimony is this guy will not talk about how this investigation got started. I wonder why then Jim Jordan goes in for the kill. We'll get to that in a second. We'll also get to the number one issue for Americans Kansas. We look down to two thousand twenty according to Gallup polling and the ORWELLIAN inclusive language guide from Colorado State University but I I've got to say goodbye to facebook and Youtube and I gotTa tell you guys today seven P._M.. Eastern four P._M.. Pacific our latest episode of the conversation we'll be featuring the great supreme Lord of the multi-diverse Andrew Klavan. You will be answering your questions live so make them good as always the episode is free to watch on Youtube Tube and facebook. Only subscribers can ask the questions subscribe today at the daily wire. Get your questions answered by Drew Clayton at Seven P._M.. Eastern four P._M.. Pacific and join the conversation. I also have to give a little plug to our buddy bill whittles podcast bill whittle. You know you've seen him before. He has an incredible podcast out on the Apollo Eleven mission the moon landing the other day. I put out a video talking to people about all the various theories of how we didn't actually actually go to the moon between six and twenty percent of Americans. Don't think we ever went to the moon because there's a lot of misinformation floating out there. Check out this podcast. It is informative. It is historical but it's also incredibly inspiring because this month marks the fiftieth anniversary since since we first put a man on the moon this new podcast by Esoteric Radio Theater is called Apollo eleven what we saw it shot immediately to number three on itunes apple podcasts at stayed there in the top ten for a week and it's getting great reviews is almost one million people have listened to the podcast or watched on Youtube. It's it's really just excellent. Don't tell bill that I was so kind about it but it is really really good and bill is he's an author. He's a pilot. He's a space enthusiast. He takes you on the journey of what it took to get to the moon. What happened when we got there and how we almost didn't get there at all? All four episodes are available right now. You can binge it head over to apple podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts subscribe today to Apollo Eleven what we saw while you're there. Please make sure that you subscribe gripe to our show. The Michael Knowles show really helps us out. When you subscribe so please do that then you'll never miss even one syllable one pearl of wisdom you can watch all of that you can also watch the podcast episodes of Apollo eleven all over Youtube at the Esoteric Radio Theatre Youtube Channel head over there right now head over to daily wire dot com? We'll be right back with a lot more so Jordan totally demolishes moller he he asked him the question Muller jumps he he doesn't want to answer the question. He says he can't talk about it. Jordan says of course you can talk about it. You wrote it in the report that you apparently didn't even read then Jordan goes in for the kill areas when the F. B.. I interviewed him in February F._B._i.. Interviews him in February when the special counsel's office interviewed Nipson did he lie to get into the interview Gibson get into this myths at Western intelligence. Russia's intelligence can't get into that lot of things you can't get into what's interesting you can charge thirteen Russians. No one's ever heard of no one's ever seen. No one's ever going to hear him. No one's ever going to see him. If you can charge them you can charge all kinds of people who are around the president with false statements but the guy who launches every the guy who puts this whole story in motion. You can't charge him. I think that's amazing. I'm I'm not certain I agree with your characterization. I'm reading from your report ouch. That's pretty bad. I'm not sure I agree with your characterizations. They're not my characterizations Mr Muller. They're yours. I'm reading from your report. This is brutal brutal for the Democrats on Capitol Hill who brought muller up to testify. It shows us something that I had suspected but I wouldn't put money on which is that the Democrats best shot here was to just. Run on the Miller report and keep Muller himself quiet just take the report you can spend the report however you want and just keep muller quiet but the Democrats couldn't do that because they were disappointed with the report because it more or less exonerated the president you know a a little bit on the edges or obstruction or tweety sent so they could have used that they could have taken those little bits and tried to say that trump was guilty of all these things instead they wanted more. They thought that they would get more by having muller testify and there were more unanswered questions nations then answers in the report namely. How did the investigation start that question reflects very poorly on Democrats and it undermines whatever political wind Democrats had the <hes> with the report they did have a little bit of a win? Trump did get dinged in this report. He was not fully exonerated by Bob Muller on obstruction. They could have had it but they got ridi now. With this testimony it it really is making the whole Russia report and the whole investigation seem illegitimate the only hope for Democrats and all of this is that no one cares about muller or Russia or collusion or any of it. They've all moved on the bad news for Democrats right now is one they've lost even even a minor talking point but to Gallup polling shows that more people than ever are concerned about illegal immigration which is a terrible issue for them and a great issue for Republicans and President Trump Gallup polling shows more Americans than ever ever before are concerned about illegal immigration and it's the top issue in the country twenty seven percent of Americans identify immigration as the most important U._S. problem. This surpasses the previous B._S.. High of twenty three percent in June to put that in perspective because it seems Kinda low number you think the top issue would have seventy five percent or eighty percent. No people are very fragmented about what issues they care about very few issues since two thousand one since they really started this polling have ever eclipsed twenty-seven percent so this is a top issue even historically now immigration is the biggest concern the next biggest problem is government slash leadership and this isn't just a problem for trump but it's not only a problem for trump. This has been the case since the second Obama term as well at that so you got twenty seven percent immigration twenty three percent government leadership the next highest issues are racism racism race relations at seven percent and healthcare at seven percent so way way below a quarter or a third what the number one and number two issues are now. This is a double edged sword for trump. This actually isn't just all good news for trump because because the good news is he owns the illegal immigration issue and this will help him because he owns it except he hasn't built a wall Fox News confirmed that C._B.. report the other day customs and Border Protection came out and said President trump has not built one one mile of new border wall since he was elected president and you heard some people pushing back the people who will defend the president regardless of what's actually happening. They were pushing back and saying no there is well there. There's new Wall Fox. News confirmed the report so unless they have information unless someone has information that I don't right now. It looks like he hasn't built any new border wall. Look I get that it's hard again. It's hard from an environmental perspective. It's hard for mazzone perspective. Obviously it's hard from a bureaucratic and a a Democrat obstruction perspective but if he hasn't built the wall he doesn't look right on that issue. It's also bad for president trump because he's the incumbent which now makes him the object of everybody's ire of you believe that the second the biggest issue according to Americans government and leadership so there is a simple fix for this. It'll help him on the top biggest issue and help him on the second biggest issue build the wall easy or if you can't feel the wall because it's too hard at least propose a plan to get the wall built a clear plan so that we don't need to just keep believing promises or if you can't do that because I understand very difficult to do that short of that start deporting criminal aliens extort really deporting we were told last week that the U._S. would be deporting millions of criminal aliens. Remember that on Sunday there were all these protests all over the country. No don't do it. There was a terrorist terrorist attack at a nice facility and do you know how many people we arrested. Eighteen not eighteen million not eighteen thousand eighteen people there were orders orders of magnitude more protesters protesting the alleged mass arrests and deportation then there were people who actually got arrested to be deported even forget president. Let's say you can't build a wall. Let's say you can't get a plan to build a wall. Even deporting lots and lots of criminal aliens publicly would help him on the subject of illegal immigration and on the subject of government and leadership it would show leadership it would show progress on the top issue. President trump had really good instincts in two thousand sixteen to focus on immigration wasn't just him a few other people got this actually daily Wire God King Jeremy Boring and our senior producer Jonathan. Hey he understood both of them understood that immigration is going to be the big issue back in two thousand fourteen. They made a movie of movie called the Arroyo all about illegal immigration because they saw coming down the pike. This was going to be a big problem. President trump saw that in two thousand fifteen when he came down that elevator at trump tower he made that in many ways the defining issue of his campaign good moves smart ever since then the issue has moved even more in trump's favor great all the better but you gotta show some leadership on it. Also I mean time's running out by the way what what is it and we're already in the end of July twenty nineteen presidential campaigns move fast there. There needs to be action on that. If president trump is going to capitalize on on this new Gallup polling also important to remember that people don't care about political issues they might not even primarily care about political issues. They also care about cultural issues when I ask people why they voted for president trump. Some of them will say immigration. I want to get rid of illegals. I want to border control. Some of them will say the economy. I want jobs. The Obama economy was awful. Many more people will say wasn't that that it was because they want to smash political correctness that they feel that political correctness is oppressive impressive. It's damaging them and they're done with it and we are now seeing political correctness to the extreme out of Colorado State University. This story was reported last October and now there's a final version of it coming out now Colorado State University has published something called an inclusive language guide. How orwellian is that? It was from the inclusive language committee or something. It's hosted on the women and gender collaborative website. I know you've got that in your book mark. So you know make sure make sure to go check it out. I read through this this guide. I counted one hundred thirty one words that you're not allowed to say in the original draft of this. Two of the words were American and America. This is a public state funded American University. They said America is offensive and American is. As offensive if they find it so offensive maybe they shouldn't take any taxpayer funding from America. Maybe they shouldn't take government subsidized and guaranteed loans from America now. They're not willing to do that now. Fortunately there was such a backlash into that in October. They took that out of the final version but there are a lot of other crazy things in this guy I mean obviously we don't have time for one hundred thirty one but here here's an example listen to this logic. They say the word colored to refer to black people is offensive fair enough. People haven't used that word in a while they say colored is a highly offensive racial slur that was often used during segregation to separate people of Color. Wait what color color color colored is bad. Add color is good and if you use anything else that's bad. I think that doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Does it but it's just a it's a euphemism cycle. You had colored that was the that was the term that everyone was supposed to use then that fell out of favor and it became black then it became African American went back to black again now. It's people of color which is exactly the same as saying colored people except if you say colored people you're a racial bigot and if you say people of Color your super woke for now. Obviously it's going to change another phrase that you're not allowed to say hip hip hooray. This is true is they said because hip hip hooray developed from the German HEP HEP which they right was a harmless adorable. Call Shepherds would use when hurting their sheep. It seems like there's no problem right now but they go on but during the Holocaust German citizens started using it as a rallying cry when they would hunt down Jewish citizens living in the ghettos so if you use the phrase hip hip hooray hip hip hooray views was that you or a Nazi according to Colorado State University they say you're not allowed to use the expression a long time no see because that's offensive to native Americans how I have no idea they say that you're not allowed to say no candu. Hey Michael. Can you help me out. No can't do that apparently gently as offensive to Chinese people again. Why couldn't possibly tell you what's wilder though all of this what you can say what you can't say the innocuous expressions that now I guess are are evil and bigoted? What's more we're interested in that is how woke expressions fall out of fashion and are quickly deemed hateful one example of this is they say you're no longer allowed to say homosexual? I I thought homosexual was the totally clinical P._C.. Term no they say you're not allowed to say homosexual but you can say what you should say is a gay okay lesbian okay bisexual all right Pan Sexual. Whatever or queer do you remember like five minutes ago when we were told the Queer is the new n word that queer is a horrible racial slur which is why that little twit Carlos Maza that little bigoted leftist at Vox dot com tried to get Steven crowder and a lot of other conservatives kicked off of Youtube? Do you remember that Queer because Queer is the N. Word I went on a television show and and when they use the word queer when it was used in a video they bleeped it out because we were now told Queer is the new n word except then we're told from Colorado state. Actually Queer is the right word and homosexual is the wrong word so if crowder had said homosexual in his podcast cast or on his show the go after him for that and then if he says square they're gonNA go after him for that and you're damned if you do and you're damned if you don't what it shows what all of this shows these language guides are not about helping an aggrieved class obviously really not they. They were talking about this yesterday on the show they the left moves past. They're aggrieved classes and ditches them as soon as it becomes politically useful they used to prattle on about women's rights and feminism now they ditch all those women for the transgender so-called community now they make force women out of business. If they won't wax the genitals of grown men wearing address now they won't let Girls Win High School Scholarships to college because they they force them to compete against men in women's sports so that's over. They always ditch those groups. It's also not about civility. It's not about making a nicer community. The the left is this vindictive and and scolding as as any when it comes to these words it's not about charity or civility. It's not even about the particular words because the words change angel time what it's about is shutting you up. What it's about is forcing you to check in with the committee? Check in with your overlords at Colorado state or twitter youtube wherever before you say anything anything because it's not about the words it's about the opinions that you're expressing. This was all summed up in Alice in Wonderland. Excuse me Allison Wonderland has the scene in it where Alice is talking to Humpty. Dumpty and Humpty dumpty says to Alice when I use a word word it means just what I choose it to me. Neither more nor less and Alice says the question is whether you can make words mean so many different things and Humpty dumpty knows better. He says the question is switches to be master that is all we've talked about it before and you see it again clear as day at of Colorado state the left would master or culture by constantly changing and perverting the meaning of words and the way that conservatives can master the culture is by using words correctly using words to mean what they mean when the left can't change the meaning of words they totally obfuscate. I don't know I couldn't say what does it mean. How do we know you saw Bob Muller doing it all day? Today we need to insist on using precise language. We need to insist on asking precise questions in the vague haziness of innuendo and emotion and smears and slander the left will win but in the precision of language in the precision of questions and the precision. What is the truth truth? That's conservatives path forward in the short run when we insist on that it hurts us we might get expelled from Colorado state. We might be have milkshakes thrown at us on the street we might get squirted by weird super soaker and Missouri and ruin my nice suit but in the long run that is the way that we will win all right. That's our show. I had a great time today speaking to Teepee U._S._A.. Here in Washington D._C.. I'm going to be doing a number of other media appearances so you can check them out while I'm here in D._C.. And then I was speaking for the young America's foundation next last week for their conference and then I'll finally be back in La La land in the meantime. Get Your Mail that questions and for tomorrow. I'm Michael Knowles. This is the Michael Knowles show. I'll see you then the Michael. Knowles show is produced by Rebecca Dob Koets and directed by Mike Joyner Executive Producer Jeremy Boring senior producer Jonathan. Hey our supervising producer is maths glover and our technical producer is Austin Stevens edited by Danny D'Amico audio uh-huh is mixed by Dylan case hair and makeup by Jessica Ovarian and our production assistant is Nick Sheehan. The Michael Knowles show is a daily wire production copyright daily Wire Twenty nineteen. Hey guys over on the show today as we all suffer through another Robert Muller News Cycle. I'd like to turn our attention back to the story of Eric Thomas. She claimed remember that she was verbally assaulted by a racist white man at the grocery store while the police report is out and it it's not good for her and I think when a race hoax is exposed.

Bob Muller President trump president Robert Muller Muller Russia Steele Muller Christopher Steele Colorado State University Muller Ken Justice Muller Trump Gallup Muller Stammer Michael Knowles Muller Investigation America Barack Obama President Bush Bill Clinton Youtube
Trump: Releasing Mueller Report "wouldn't bother me at all", now concedes Mueller acted honorably during investigation; Feds arrest porn star's ex-attorney Michael Avenatti in cases alleging bank fraud, attempt to extort Nike; Trump says Mueller acted hon

The Situation Room with Wolf Blitzer

44:38 min | 1 year ago

Trump: Releasing Mueller Report "wouldn't bother me at all", now concedes Mueller acted honorably during investigation; Feds arrest porn star's ex-attorney Michael Avenatti in cases alleging bank fraud, attempt to extort Nike; Trump says Mueller acted hon

"The bad. This is here NCW March madness. Takes the courses the big, Dan. So miss a moment of the action on TBS CBS TNT and true TV and download the March madness live up to watch every game anywhere at anytime. Live. Happening now. Breaking news, releasing the report Democrats demand the release of the complete Muller report as President Trump in a celebratory mood says that wouldn't bother me at all. But while the president claims he was totally exonerated does. The full report tell a different story treasonous things. President Trump goes on offense accusing unnamed people have doing very evil things and treasonous things. But while he may still be thinking of the mother investigation as a witch hunt. He now says the special counsel acted honourably other matters. What had Robert Muller find that? He farmed out to different. Prosecutors could these so called other ongoing matters keep the attorney general from releasing the full Muller report, an avid naughty attorney Michael avenue who represented porn-star stormy Daniels in a suit against the president is arrested in charge with fraud and with trying to extort millions from Nike. I'm wolf Blitzer. You're in the situation room. This is CNN. Breaking new wreck. You news after months of slamming Robert Muller and his investigation. President Trump now concedes with special counsel acted honourably and says it wouldn't bother him. If Muller's report has made public, but while the president claims total exoneration the Muller reports does not exonerate him on the manner of obstruction journey general Bill bar run notes. The special counsel did not draw conclusion one way or the other but bar has made the determination that there's not enough evidence to establish obstruction of Justice. That's a key reason. Congressional Democrats insist the full Mullah report be released also breaking a key tag is the President Trump is in serious legal jeopardy. Turning Mike eleven ATI who represented porn star. Stormy Daniels in a suit against the president has been arrested and faces separate counts in two states of fraud and trying to extort millions of dollars from Nike and Israel retaliates for a rocket attack. By hitting key HAMAs targets in Gaza, sparking urgency's fire efforts off speak congressman Eric swallow, while of the intelligence and judiciary committees that our correspondents and analysts. They will have full coverage of the day's top stories. Let's begin with our chief White House correspondent Jim Acosta. Jim the president seems triumphant and angry at the same time. It is a range of emotions wolf the president is taking a victory lap after special counsel. Robert Muller concluded there was no collusion between the Trump campaign and the Russian government and 2016 with the White House is on the warpath tonight with the president accusing people of doing quote, very evil things and other top White House officials accusing Democrats and the media of lying to the public. Savoring what may be as big as political victory since his election? President Trump welcomes special counsel Robert Muller's findings of no collusion with the Kremlin. But he took some swipes at his critics. I wish you could have gone a lot sooner let quicker there are a lot of people out there that have done some very very evil things. Very bad things. I would say treasonous things against our country and. Hopefully that people that have done such harm to our country with gun through a period of really bad things happening. Those people will certainly be looked at the president sounded open to the idea of releasing the full Muller report to the public saying that's up to attorney general William bar, the attorney general, but it wouldn't bother me at all. And the president appeared to change his tune on the special counsel when asked about Muller's handling of the Russia probe. This which that's a departure from the president's cries of a witch on a talking point the Trump campaign turned into a coffee mug now Mr. Trump is attacking the investigation while praising its findings. This was an illegal takedown that fail. And hopefully somebody's going to be looking at the other side. So it's complete. Exoneration. No collusion. No obstruction. But that's not exactly true. As the attorney general summary of the mullahs report says the special counsel states that while this report does not conclude that the president committed a crime. It also does not exonerate him. White House is going one step further blaming the media for the Muller probe Democrats in the media perpetuated that lie day in and day out and breathlessly covered every single second of negative attention that they thought would be the one moment that would bring this president down. But it was President Trump who fired FBI director James Komi leading to the appointment of the special counsel. And in fact, when I decided to just do it. I said to myself, I said, you know, this rusher thing with Trump and Russia is a made up story. It's an excuse by the Democrats for having lost an election that they should have one. And there were other moments that raise suspicions from the firing of national security adviser Michael Flynn over his conversations with the Russian ambassador. Her the evolving eroding level of trust. As a result of this situation in a series of other questionable instances is what led the president to ask for general Flynn's resignation to Donald Trump JR. Junior's meeting with a Russian attorney offering dirt on Hillary Clinton from a practical standpoint, most people would have taken that meeting, which is why Democrats want to see the full Muller report. And what you notice is the attorney general in the four page letter office offers only partial quotes of very little evidence of what that evidence was all of that leads me to say we need to see the report it was a false narrative. One thing Mr. Trump's legal team is not willing to reveal the president's written answers to the special counsel for now. That's hands off. It's not as simple just wave your hand. And here we released the document. I think that would be very inappropriate. And the president of told reporters that he hasn't thought about whether to issue any pardons in the Russian investigation when the Muller fro was underway. Any talk of pardoning figures in the investigation was slammed by Democrats as potential obstruction. But now that the Muller probe is wrapped up it. Now seems to be once again a live option, though, a source close to the White House told me yesterday it is too early to talk about that. And wolf it should be noted that this is hardly the end of the president's legal troubles. He has been implicated in a case of alleged campaign finance violations in the southern district of New York and the democratic investigations up on Capitol Hill into whole array of allegations that also continues in wolf I should point on just the last couple of minutes. I heard from the White House official who confirmed that the White House the president's team as of this point has not yet viewed the entire Muller report will be interesting. All right. Thanks, very much Democrats at the White House. President Trump may be claiming vindication, but Democrats are demanding to see the full Muller report. Not just the synopsis by the attorney general. Let's bring in our political correspondent Sara Murray. So, Sarah, what is the latest a wealth? Of course. Democrats have spoken very highly of Robert Mueller the special counsel. But now they're saying it is time for him to show his work and making it very clear, they're not willing to settle for Bill bars summary. Tonight, the lingering questions from attorney general William bars summary of the mullahs report setting up a showdown with congress over what the special counsel found. And how the Justice department interpreted it at the center of -struction of Justice C N N has learned special counsel, Robert Muller, informed, bar and attorney general rod Rosenstein three weeks ago that he would not draw conclusion about whether the president obstructed Justice an unexpected outcome. A source tells C N N in his summary bar writes that Muller sets out evidence on both sides of the question and one of the few instances in his summary bar sites. This critical line from Muller's report while this report does not conclude that the president committed a crime it also does not exonerate him, but Barin Rosenstein made their own determination clearing, the president of criminal wrongdoing without Muller's involvement bar writing that Rosenstein, and I have concluded that the evidence developed during the special counsel's investigation is not sufficient to establish that the president committed obstruc. Of Justice offense, still there's no indication if Muller asked Barr to draw conclusion or intended to leave the question of whether the president obstructed Justice up to congress. President Trump's personal attorney Rudy Giuliani took issue with Muller's careful language which stopped short of fully clearing. The president mainstay. They feel capable of making the decision problem because they had to sent within their ranks the most important thing is they didn't make the decision that to bring a case, right or to conclude that a crime was committed they actually should stop there. This extra language about not exonerating. A lot of prosecutors called me this morning and said that very very unusual and very unethical as for the question of collusion with Russia bar quotes directly from a portion of a sentence in Muller's report, the investigation did not establish that members of the Trump campaign conspired or coordinated with the Russian government in its election interference activities. Democrats pounce dunbar's decision refusing to accept the attorney general's interpretation. Of the Muller report without seeing it in full on not going to accept Mr. bars summary of what Mr. Muller found over two year, period. Let's see that report the head of the House Judiciary committee saying on Sunday that he plans to call bar to testify before the committee whose conclusions raise more questions than the answer. Given the fact that Muller uncovered evidence that in his own words does not exonerate the president. We cannot simply rely on. What may be a hasty? Partisan interpretation of the facts Democrats ramp up calls to see Muller's full report and its underlying evidence. A Justice department official tells C N N that while DOJ has started the process of determining what in the report can be made public. There is no firm time line for its release now wolf there are still other loose ends in the Muller investigation. Remember that foreign-owned anonymous company that was fighting the subpoena from Muller's team. Well, let's bring court said they are not going to hear that appeal. But the case continues, we're learning the DC. The US attorney's office is now going to be involved in that case and Muller's prosecutors are handing off a number of other cases that are still open to the US attorney's office as they wind down their work will. Right now. Sarah, thanks for that report. Good work democratic leaders want to see the entire Muller report, even as they intend to continue their own investigations. Let's go to Capitol Hill right now. She has Ryan nobles is joining us Ryan to Democrats, though, run the risk of potentially overreaching. I think there's no doubt about that wolf. And that's why there's a degree of uncertainty air on Capitol Hill is to the next stage of this conversation related to the Muller report. And it's not just Democrats that are calling for the full Muller report to be released. There are many Republicans that believe that as much of it as possible should be made public as well. But their perspectives on this are much different Republicans believe that if the mullahs report comes out in some form, or fashion that will further vindicate. The president will Democrats are looking for information that Robert Muller may have found that could enhance their existing investigations into the president and his administration or perhaps Lou lead to new inquiries of that they could look into. But Republicans today were telling their democratic Cali. Leagues to be very cautious here that there was a real risk that they could overextend themselves, and perhaps pushed too far in that the American people would reject that move. In fact, they said it's time for Democrats just to move on and pushed this issue to the side. But at the same time wolf, there are some Republicans believed there are other investigations that need to take place. In fact, Lindsey Graham, the Senator from South Carolina, a defender of President Trump said today, he believes attorney general William should actually start a new special counsel to look into the roots of the Russia investigation. Take a listen when it comes to the Fiso warn the Clinton campaign. The counterintelligence investigation is pretty much been swept on the rug is it by few Republicans in the house. Those days are over. Going forward hopefully in about partisan fashion. We'll begin unpack the other side of the story. So Senator Graham hoping that a new special counsel, call for a new special counsel looking into the roots of the Russian investigation would be from a bipartisan perspective. But right now Democrats are saying that there are still a lot to look into as it relates to the president his ties to Russia, and perhaps obstruction of Justice. So wolf any thought that perhaps this end of the Muller report went end the partisan divisions? As it relates to this issue here on Capitol Hill seems to be just a fantasy. We'll just going to continue. There's no doubt about that. Ryan nobles up on Capitol Hill. Thank you. Joining us now democratic cons, but Eric swallow of California's a member of both the intelligence and the judiciary committee's congressman. Thanks so much for joining us. And I want to start by playing a little of what you've told me on the question of President Trump and collusion. Listen to this. You have to separate this from what you can prove beyond a reasonable doubt. That's Bob Muller's job and just general collusion, which is offensive and concerning. I've seen plenty of evidence of collusion. We have very good circumstantial evidence that the Trump team. Family. The businesses were eager to work, and we're working with the Russians while the Russians were helping them. And I think in the court of law that's enough. So as you know, the according to the special counsel Robert Muller, the investigation did not establish that members of the Trump campaign conspired or coordinated with the Russian government. Are you ready congressman to accept that conclusion from Robert Muller? Yes. As it relates to criminal charges. I think Mr. molar for his work on behalf of the country, and I accept that. But I think the clip you laid out explains that just because you are criminally a non Koluder doesn't mean that we don't want to know what evidence. Bob Muller found about efforts you and your team and your family and your business took to work with the Russians. We have a counterintelligence interest for national security reasons, but also just on the judiciary committee recognizing that. We have a constitutionally equal role to play to understand if that conduct is conduct that we want in a president. And so wolf that's just a long way of saying show us the Mola report, not the bar opinion the bar. Opinion is four pages long a chronicles a nearly two year investigation that had twenty eight hundred subpoenas five hundred search warrants and only used eighty four words from Bob Muller? We wanna see every single word. So are you suggesting congressman that while there might not be enough evidence to establish a crime on the part of the president or others in the campaign involving collusion? There might be enough. Evidence to suggest the your activity in the house of representatives beginning with impeachment. Well, I don't want to go there. I want to talk about counterintelligence issues I on the intelligence committee. We have to make sure any US person certainly all the way up to the president has not worked with an adversary in a way that could jeopardize our national security. We've seen the evidence of let me interrupt for a second. Don't you think Robert Muller and his team of lawyers enough B I agents, if they have that kind of evidence they would have presented it. They would have gone after those individuals. Oh, certainly that's why we want to we want to see it. And we want to know if they do have that kind of evidence and that. Evidence may not be reached the highest standard in the law proof beyond a reasonable doubt. But it's still evidence. We would wanna see because we have seen just in public light evidence of a person whose family took this meeting where the Russians offered dirt on his opponent a candidate who asked the Russians to continue hacking. So we know there was an intent to receive the help from the Russian. So let's know what Muller saw that we did not see and public light. The Trump campaign has included your name on a list of of individuals guests with what they call credibility problems on this issue, you replied by saying this, and I'll read what you said the only person who has been caught lying about Russia's Donald Trump. And if he thinks I've made a false statement, he consuming and I'll beat him in court. So what exactly did you mean by that? Well, the president certainly lied when he said he had no business dealings as a candidate with Russia. We have now learned through Michael Cohen and others that those dealings went all the way through the primary. Why was he so dishonest with the American people about having business dealings with Russia while he was a candidate for president? But I challenge him if he believes that I'm not being truthful, or that the other person's aren't being truthful, then suicide feel very comfortable that he would not win that case just as he has lost. Most of the cases he brings out to court Democrats have accused the attorney general of rushing to judgment on the question of obstruction of Justice. But CNN is learned that Robert Muller told Bill bar attorney, the attorney general some three weeks ago that he wouldn't draw conclusion on that specific obstruction issue. If the evidence didn't unequivocally convince Robert Muller that a crime had been committed it wishful thinking for Democrats to try and prove obstruction of Justice. Well, again, our standard is different than proof beyond a reasonable doubt. The president shouldn't be taken a victory lap that the best day of his presidency is that he was not charged with the crime. If he still committed offensive conduct that does not meet the conduct. We. Want for a president congress has a constitutionally equal role to play to hold him accountable. That's why I think we should just see the report, but we'll find we'll note what concerns me about the attorney general making this decision. Not the special counsel is the whole point of the special counsel was to act in a way that a conflicted political appointee. By a subject of the investigation. The president who is appointed bark could not. So the special counsel is supposed to make decisions that someone who has a conflict of interest could not. So I do want to learn more about why the special counsel would give this thirty to the attorney general. Well, you think Muller mentally that question of obstruction of Justice to the attorney general or was he simply leaving it to you members of congress the decide if he meant to leave it to us, then we should see it. And if the president is so confident that he has been exonerated, then he should release immediately. The full report. Senator Lindsey Graham issued this warning to Democrats today, I'll play the clip pursue. What you think is important to the public. But if you keep going after Muller spoke, people are gonna think you're just out to get him that there is no right answer other than Donald Trump must be removed from office in you'll proper probably probably suffer the same fate. We did as having gone too far. So if you pursue this, do you think a lot of Americans will think you are going to far do you risk? In other words, a backlash. But no. And again, I respect what. Bob Muller dead. I think congress and the American people should see it, and I'll just point out to Senator Graham that I reached out to him over two years ago when I wanted to have an independent commission to take all of this outside of congress and have experts in states persons look at this rather than have a politically charged Washington. Do it. He didn't take me up on that offer. I only got two Republic. Enes to sponsor my legislation. I've always thought that an independent commission is the best way to secure our ballot box and make sure that we're not attacked by the Russians. Again, you think that there's evidence that you would be able to members of congress to come up with Muller couldn't come up with an I'm looking now he had a twenty eight hundred subpoenas five hundred witness interviews five hundred search warrants two hundred and thirty orders for communication records, forty FBI agents, a whole bunch of intelligence analysts forensic accountants other staff nineteen lawyers. What makes you think that the staff your staff, either the judiciary committee or the intelligence committee could come up with? He clearly didn't come up, and I can't answer that question without seeing a who he interviewed and what he learned in right now, my position is we should know that for the sake of future elections that may be interfered with for the sake of knowing whether a president and his team worked with the Russians. Maybe not in a criminally chargeable way. But a way that is offensive. We should know all of that. And again, I call on the president. If you are so innocent, if you are so clear if you're so exonerated, then you should be so quick to put that report in the hands of congress and the American people all of us want to see that information as quickly as possible congressman Eric's. Well, well, thanks so much for joining pleasure. Are let's bring it on CNN crime Justice reporters Shimon Peres, our Justice reporter, Laura Jarrett as well as our chief national security correspondent, Jim Shudo, Laura. Let me read from the bar letter quoting Robert Mueller, the special counsel the investigation did not establish that members of the Trump campaign conspired or coordinated with the Russian government in selection interference activities. What what do you make an and you went to law school? You understand this you cover the Justice? The use the phrase wasn't that long the use of the phrase did not establish. It's a notable line that she cute in on here. I think it's important to remember Muller's looking at this not just as an investigator. He's looking at this as a prosecutor. And so these lines actually. Are kind of terms of art. So when he says did not establish to me, I read that is did not have sufficient evidence to prosecute beyond a reasonable doubt. That's a different standard than members of congress were being as congressmens while we'll just mentioned for his investigative purposes. It's it's a different issue. But what he's saying here is I looked at the case, and I couldn't get there, and you can see from footnote one he even assessed potential conspiracy charges. So it's not as if they didn't look at the waterfront here had all of the evidence in front of them. But they didn't see a case to be made. And it's also speaks to why it's going to be so important to see the full report because as you can see from the brackets there. We don't know what came before the first part of that cause. And so we have to see what did he say about all the evidence that he saw. But yet, nevertheless, he couldn't get the full report. All those words, clearly shibo bowlers team actually notified the attorney general Bill bar three weeks ago that he would not be able to reach a conclusion on whether or not the president. Obstructed justice. So what's the significance of them? So it's essentially it's it's to tell us that Bill bar. They didn't just make this decision on his own in the two days that he was reviewing this report. We it's essentially saying that the department of Justice Bill bar, the deputy attorney general rod Rosenstein, all knew this was coming. They knew this was going to be part of what Robert Muller was gonna put in their report. Certainly I think the issue that some folks did not expect him to not come to a conclusion on the obstruction issue could have been a little bit surprising. But I don't think ultimately they came into this over the weekend Bill bar and his team surprised at the outcome on this investigation. The hardest part for them. It would seem and Laura knows. It's better because she spent the entire weekend. There was figuring out. What to tell us how much do we do they tell us and they've told us a lot. And I think they're going to continue to try and do their best to get more information to us or they clearly have told us a lot. But we want a whole lot more. Jim shooter. What are the big unanswered questions from your perspective, and you've been covering this from day one as well that still surround the Muller investigation. Listen to Laura's point here. One thing. That's clear is Muller is not James combing, right because in that famous press conference regarding Hillary Clinton James Comey said something similar he said, these are not prosecutable crimes. They don't meet that standard. But look at all the reckless behavior. You remember that press conference very well Muller did not take that that next at least based on bars interpretation that report just established where he could not establish the crimes were committed both on the Kalou collusion issue. But but I think the bigger question on obstruction right because even bar mentions in his report that there was evidence that Muller established evidence of obstruction of Justice. So we'll we see the full report will congress call a Robert Muller testifies to why he did not quite get to that conclusion will they call Bill bar to testify to say why he made a judgment that. There was not evidence. Enough to support that while at the same time, including even his report keep in mind. This is an attorney general appointed by this president language saying that this report does not exonerate the president on that issue. That's a remarkable language to include in a report from the president's own appointee. And then this broader question, I talked to a lot of lawyers this morning. I know you have wolf today who made the point was Muller here effectively leaving this question up to congress as opposed to the prosecutor saying here's the evidence here. Ultimately, it is a political decision. And that may well be where we are. Of course, the other question is is there political capital is their political support and momentum here to continue that investigation beyond where it is. After these two years of the most of the Muller investigation. That's an open question. Jim Shimon guys. Thanks, very very much continuing to work your sources, we have a whole lot more coming up on the Muller report later, the attorney, Mike Levin who represented porn star. Stormy Daniels in. A suit against the president has just been arrested charged with fraud and with trying to extort millions of dollars from Nike s. Hiring is challenging, but there's one place you can go. We're hiring is simple, fast and smart that place ZipRecruiter with their powerful matching technology. Ziprecruiter scans thousands of resumes to find people with the right experience and invite them to apply to your job. Ziprecruiter is so affective that eighty percents of employers who post on ZipRecruiter get a quality candidate through the site within the first day and right now listeners can try ZipRecruiter for free at this exclusive web address ZipRecruiter dot com slash situation. That's ZipRecruiter dot com slash sl. Ziprecruiter this Martin way to hire. The White House official tells C N N President Trump's team still hasn't seen the full Muller report. The president says it wouldn't bother him. If the full report is released, but it's up to the attorney general he said, our political legal experts are here to discuss what comes next a lot will come next resume. Susan hennessy. The attorney general Bill bars letter states at the special counsel. Robert Muller lays up evidence on both sides, but Muller left conclusions up to the attorney general who of course, is a Trump political appointee. Did this process work the way, it was supposed to actually isn't as at all clear to me that Muller left conclusions up to the attorney general attorney general summary letter said that Muller Muller and his team declined to reach a traditional prosecutorial judgment. It didn't say that they felt that the attorney general was the person who is in the appropriate position to render that judgment. He Muller might have meant for for for Bill bar to make that decision. He also might have meant for congress to make that decision to have compiled a record. So these these present really really difficult. Questions of lawn fact, and so I'm essentially hinting it over to the body that actually is going to be in a position to adjudicate that so one of the big mysteries. Here's why Bill bar felt compelled to offer his sort of judgment on the matter at all importantly, it doesn't have any operative effect. Robert Muller has exclusive jurisdiction of the question. He declined to to seek prosecution essentially, and so Barr is pretty much just offering his opinion him putting that there was not an open question at the Justice department to resolve. And so the question is what does that accomplish for bar to do it? Now, obviously generates lots and lots of good headlines for the president. I don't think we should read a bad faith reason bar may assault that there was some independent duty as attorney general. But I do think that it's a plausible theory. The Muller intended for congress answer this question and not the attorney general this letter to congress said he consulted with not only the deputy attorney general rod Rosenstein, but also. Consulted with the office of legal counsel at the Justice department and other officials involved as well as a result of all those conversations he decided to issue his conclusion, it's possible that congress will ultimately agree with this conclusion anyone who sang that the shucks and charges against the president are a slam dunk, especially without seeing underlying report based on the public evidence. There are lots of really really difficult questions. Not surprising. The attorney general would want to consult with those other individuals not even necessarily inappropriate that the attorney general would wanna weigh in that said at the end of two year investigation. Robert Muller, basically said there are strong evidence on both sides there strong legal arguments on both sides. That sounds a lot like he's teeing up a question for congress to decide beyond some Democrats are citing Bill bars twenty eighteen memo some eight nine months ago as evidence that the attorney general was biased in this whole thing bar wrote in that memo unsolicited to the deputy attorney general the assistant attorney general he wrote that Muller's obstruction theory is fatally misconcep-. Saved and would have grave consequences far beyond the immediate confines of this case and would do lasting damage to the presidency. That's his strong argument that he's sticking by it. It is a strong argument in which is why one of the most interesting things we've heard today from Laura Jared when she said that the special counsel's office had reached out to bar and Rosenstein about three weeks ago and said that he would not be able to come to a conclusion with regards to obstruction, obviously knowing that Barr had written this memo last year feeling the way he did about that very issue. So if they went to him three weeks ago saying we were not able to come up with consensus. We're going to leave it to you or to congress. What have you at least knowing how he felt about this? I think is is an interesting part of this puzzle as well. It's not like he's been mum about it. It's very significant thing. Yeah. Look, if I think this is why the most of the report that we can see the better because to Susan's point if Muller doesn't make plane at some point, I think that he would like this to be in that report that this should be judicata, or at least looked at by congress. What's hard is? Then the leaving it to bar to make a decision to be honest points. Kind of you know, what that decision is going to be and not only that. But you've now given bar three weeks to sort of be ready when this comes out to make that case and say, well, you know, I looked at this is not like he got it looked at it. And then immediately bartered say, well, we talked about it. We looked at it, etc. Essentially, so that's the only thing I worry about if it's not in the lineage it, go ahead. Sorry, document Muller. Also made the decision to write that. The phrase this does not exonerate the president made the decision to quote it which was clearly purpose, Abby. Let me read what bar quoting the special counsel. Robert Muller say while this report does not conclude that the president committed a crime it also does not exonerate him. We're hearing very different line from the president who tweeted, no collusion. No, obstruction, complete and total exoneration. Well, here's the view from the White House. And I think Susan actually alluded to this. When she speaking a few minutes ago, they view it as Muller made a decision not to move forward on the obstruction part of this. And from their perspective, they view that alone as being an exoneration. Now a lot of people disagree with that. But that's their view of the situation for President Trump, and it allows them to go out there and say on the two main points that we've been attacked on for over two years collusion and later on obstruction. The president is not facing any charges, and he is. Essentially, Robert Muller saying, I can't I can't move forward on these two fronts. So I mean, the White House feels like this is a easy argument to make I think the more nuanced argument is one that they're not particularly interested in and and as far as twenty twenty is concerned, that's all that matters from their perspective. They're using this to this day already to rallied their troops to raise money and just to say this whole thing was a lie from the beginning or David you're a political director. So forget about the law right now for about all the league. To admit that this initial letter from the attorney general to congress represents a huge political win for the president. I can't think of a better scenario for the president. I mean, yes, maybe it could have been cleaner of this issue of obstruction of Justice. But we are so inside and reading the every headline across America today said what Donald Trump has been saying for two years the, but with Muller's stamp of approval on it. No collusion that is a fantastic political victory for the president. There's just no doubt about that. Now, it may be yesterday may have been v very best Abe politically for President Trump. If indeed the full report comes out, and it starts giving more information or you see the one side or the other that Miller presents, and there are things there that may diminish this moment for the president. But he already is having this golden moment that no matter what comes out in the report they're going to go back to do. He said, no collusion. He made no decision on obstruction. So they feel that they are in a very good place. Now to take this cloud over their head remove it and really now focused on the reelection campaign just hundred percent agree, politically and just add think of the alternative is that the only alternate. But think of the alternative that Bob Muller comes out and says, look it wasn't on Trump. But there was significant collusion here. And here x y and z and bar lacing out four it comes out in the Miller report, we would be talking about Donald Trump's presidency being imperil Democrats would be beating the impeachment drum, and I would say with some real not only political, but but sort of sense that that that was right way to go. Now, all of that is sheltering. It's now on Democrats who now politically speaking have to decide do we continue down this road. Do we continue on the trucks obstruction point Susan makes tweet pursue that? As Jerry Nadler another's have have advocated or do we retrench and make the argument broader about what downturn? Has done an office on immigration on on the economy on trade, etc. Does all speaks of the absolute criticality of seeing the full Muller report Bill bars summary is consistent with a report that absolutely clears the president vindicates him on every possible front or close to it. It is also entirely consistent with a report that is devastating to the president that has mountains of really incriminating evidence that falls just short of that standard of that high bar. The Democrats potentially could they go too far and have a backlash. Look, I think you're already seeing that question being asked especially among those who are running for president in twenty twenty. I asked Amy klobuchar today is this a question you're being asked out on the campaign, stump are you being asked by voters about the rush investigation or about a policy issues in domestic issues. And you know, I it is more of the latter though. Of course, she said there are still serious questions to be asked and remain unanswered thus far in the Russian investigation. I will just add one thing that could've avoided a lot of this confusion for bardo of included in this memo was that he had been asked specifically by the special counsel's office to be the arbiter to decide ultimately whether or not obstruction was committed that was not included in his four page memo. And one has to wonder why this is president couldn't have couldn't have wished for a better additional. That are everybody hold their thought. There's more news. We got to follow including this. The attorney Michael avenue who represented the porn star. Stormy Daniels is arrested and charged with trying to extort millions of dollars from Nike. I'm Biagio Messina, and I'm jokin seen. We're the producers behind HSEN television documentary series unmasking killer. Join us as we explore the identification capture and arrest of Joseph James, Di Angelo the alleged Golden State killer in a special ten part podcast series unmasking killer, all new episodes premiering Tuesday. February twelfth subscribe today at apple podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts. Breaking news coming into the situation room. Mike eleven ATI. The attorney who wants represented the points are stormy Daniels and considered running for president was arrested. Today's he faces federal charges and not one but two separate federal investigations, our national political correspondent MG Lee is joining us from New York where he was actually arrested MJ, what are you learning about this alleged extortion scheme? Well, we'll just a stunning turn of events for Michael avenue ninety he was arrested in Manhattan by the FBI earlier today and this eleven page criminal complaint. Basically details how avenue Addy tried to extort the company Nike for millions of dollars last week. It says that avenue d met with a number of Nike's, lawyers, and he essentially told them look, I have a client who has damaging information about your company and a less you pay me and my client millions of dollars. I'm going to hold a press conference and try to do damage to your. So you'd better pay up. Now. Fortunately for avenue Nike immediately went along enforcement. They contacted the southern district of New York and so subsequent conversations between avenue and Nike's lawyers ended up being reported both audio and video now throughout this complaint. Avenue is quoted frankly, saying some pretty thuggish things I just want to read one from that criminal complaint. I've Nadia's quoted saying I'll go take ten billion dollars off your clients is market cap. I am not effing around. And I'm not continuing to play games, you guys know enough now to know, you've got a serious problem. And it's worth more in exposure to me to just blow the lid on this thing. Now, the US attorney for why Jeff Berman just held a press conference here in Manhattan. Here's a little bite from that press conference. When the company's lawyers resisted paying all the ninety to conduct an internal investigation. Avocado told the company it could skip paying for an internal investigation. If instead it simply paid him twenty two point five million dollars. Then I've an ATI said he would quote ride off into the sunset avenue was not acting as an attorney a suit and tie doesn't mask. The fact that at its core. This was an old fashioned shakedown. Now, we are also told that the unnamed co conspirator in this criminal complaint celebrity lawyer, Mark Garrett goes I should note that he was a CNN contributor. But he no longer is. As of today. I should also mention that he has not been charged also facing charges in California. Tell us about that. That's right. Almost simultaneously. There were charges brought upon Michael avenue on the west coast in California federal prosecutors accusing him of both wire and Bank fraud. They say that he embezzled clients money to pay off his own loans and also that he defrauded a Bank by using phony tax returns to try to get millions of dollars in loans. Now, this is these are charges that could amount to a maximum sentence of fifty years, but I should stress that these are separate cases was separate sets of charges again in California and New York months ago, he was throwing out the idea of actually running for president of the United States things have changed pretty quickly. I'm Jay Lee. Thanks, very. Much for joining us coming up a very important point in what we know of the Muller reports conclusion Russians and Vladimir Putin's government didn't interfere in the 2016 US presidential election. Remember to create an ad like this one visit pure winning dot com slash CNN. Although attorney general bar summary of the Muller investigation leaves many unanswered questions. There's no doubt about one very important point Russia interfered in the two thousand sixteen election, which raises the question of whether the big winner is Putin C N N's Brian Todd has been checking with his sources, Brian. What are you hearing wolf our sources and outside? Analysts are telling us tonight that flat. Amir Putin has got to be just crowing inside the Kremlin. The former KGB officer accomplishes goals of wreaking havoc on America's elections. He's got an open slate ahead with President Trump, and it doesn't look like he's going to suffer any consequences. Bujan the one person most clearly implicated in crimes in Robert Muller's. Final report may also come away as one of its biggest winners Russian President, Vladimir Putin. Former intelligence officials and analysts say the report confirms what US intelligence always knew that Russia attempted to influence the election. They've certainly sown discord the Russians have caused more than they could've hope. For in terms of domestic political upheaval in the United States. The attorney general's brief summary of the Muller report released Sunday says the special counsel documents crimes committed by persons associated with the Russian government in connection with efforts to interfere in the two thousand sixteen election campaign the Russians deny mullahs reportedly says the Russians used to tactics to so chaos hacking e mails from Democrats in from Hillary Clinton's campaign, which were then released and running a disinformation campaign on social media Muller. Previously said that campaign not only tried to further divide Americans with angry click bait posts on race and guns, but even organized protests like this one against Hillary Clinton in Florida and these two four and against Muslims in Houston. Muller has charged Russian officials with those crimes, but it's unlikely any of them will ever see the inside of a US courtroom because Putin won't extradite them to the US another goal of Putin's government in the interference campaign. They didn't want to. They didn't want to Clinton presidency. They certainly got that. Instead, according to US intelligence Hooton pushed for candidate Donald Trump. He called me and genius. He said we're gonna win experts say that bet paid off since being elected Trump has strengthened his ties to Putin holding a one on one summit with Putin in Helsinki where he sided with the former KGB officer over US intelligence. I will tell you that President Putin was extremely strong and powerful in his denial today, but analysts say everything may not have worked out the way Putin wanted. They believe the Trump administration feeling constrained by the Russia probe has compensated by sanctioning Russia and more recently, keeping Putin at arm's length lay couldn't have a summit just a few months ago and Ueno salaries Putin want about meeting Putin apparently chased after Trump trying to talk to him us ours. And Trump didn't wanna talk to him. Now that Muller has turned in his report analysts say Trump Mayfield. He's got more freedom to pursue a closer relationship with the former KGB Lieutenant Colonel. Which experts warn is good for Putin. But dangerous for the US Russia is not a partner, it is not a friend. It is an adversary. This is not a country. We need another reset with this is not a country that shares any of our interest. In fact, US interests are completely opposed to what the Russians who want to see in the world, which is a decline in US power and Putin analysts say, we'll certainly try to attack America's elections again in two thousand twenty assuming that they're not blocked from doing so technologically by cybersecurity or buy new reforms to our electoral laws or other systemic changes. There's no particular reason that they wouldn't try again. What are the tools that flat? Amir Putin is operatives might use to cause political chaos in America in two thousand twenty analysts warn of cyberattacks more sophisticated disinformation campaigns and efforts to undermine any candidate who might be more hawkish toward Russia than Donald Trump is wolf Brian Todd reporting for us. Thanks for that report. Coming up breaking news or White House official says the Trump team still hasn't seen the full Miller report, and as Democrats demand the release the report to be released in its entirety. President Trump says that would bother him at all.

Robert Muller president President Trump Muller attorney Democrats special counsel Russia congress Muller Muller Russian government Bob Muller CNN Trump White House congressman congress President Putin prosecutor
Mueller breaks his silence to say only Congress can accuse POTUS of wrongdoing

The Beat with Ari Melber

49:03 min | 1 year ago

Mueller breaks his silence to say only Congress can accuse POTUS of wrongdoing

"The. May twenty nine twenty nineteen. This is the day that, Bob Muller broke his silence and resigned, his office as the most consequential special counsel in a generation, Melissa, speaking publicly for the first time today in more than two years after thirty seven indictments guilty, pleas from five Trump aids a four hundred forty eight page report, all against the backdrop of intense, obstruction of his probe and wider attacks on the Justice department, some of that obstruction was charged by Muller himself, some was referred out to other prosecutors in cases that we know are still open and tonight, I can tell you some of the potential obstruction was not charged at all because as Bob Muller, underscored in breaking his silence. Today, the Justice department rules prevented him from ever indicting a sitting president Millard delivering that pivotal point that the legal wall barricading Muller from ever doing anything with his evidence on President Trump other than writing down for congress. He delivered that today in his signature. Understated manner noted in his first remarks to the country here that he would basically not be able to give Donald Trump, the good news that there was no crime. In fact, that if he wanted to he would have given that good news if the evidence supported it, but, and this is important and some of this may get lost we're going to break it down for you right now. Bob Muller and his first ever remarks a special counsel. Made it clear the evidence he gathered in that exhaustive. Probe did not provide the confidence that President Trump clearly did not, quote commit a crime. As forth in the report after that investigation if we had had confidence that the president clearly did not commit a crime. We would have said. So if you remember nothing else from this historic day, it is historic data American history. No matter what else happens. Remember this Bob Mueller breaks his silence today and uses this singular appearance facing the country as the saying may go to stay the Muller, probes, lack of an indictment of President Trump is not a finding about Donald Trump's guilt or innocence. He is trusting you trust in the American public to actually slow down and thinking here this out because it's not altogether. Obvious Muller is explaining in these I ever remarks that no evidence would ever have allowed the DOJ not Muller not bar no-one at DOJ to indicted sitting president, that's obviously rebuttal the team Trump and to the impression left by attorney general bar. Muller didn't present this to be clear fair, as any kind of disagreement in public with bar today Muller was careful and he was courteous throughout. But we can also state the fact that the Muller report, which urges everyone to read today, it does disagree with bars famous depiction in fundamental ways. It notes that neither Muller nor bar could ever charge, the president wall. He is in office. We did not, however make determination as to whether the president did commit a crime, the introduction to the volume two of our report explains that decision. It explains that under long standing department policy a president, president cannot be charged with a federal crime while he is in office that is unconstitutional charging the president with a crime was therefore, not an option. We could consider that is the opposite final position. And we will not comment on any other conclusions or hypotheticals about the president. And if you remember nothing else, remember this, what I'm about to tell you a direct consequence of the first thing I mentioned, if the DOJ cannot indict the president, what happens with the evidence of any potential presidential crime is not a trick question presidents Johnson, Nixon and Clinton, they all know and anyone who has studied those areas, or live through them, they all faced congresses, which considered impeachment. Muller, did not say the I word I don't think anyone was bracing for that today. That's not how Bob Muller roles. But remember, the other thing he did today reiterating this key passage from the mullahs report, which states only congress accuses a sitting president of criminal conduct. The opinion says that the constitution requires a process other than the criminal Justice system to formally accuse a sitting president of wrongdoing Muller's entire address today was positioned within the rules he had to follow. I can tell you, I'm thrilled that in a few moments, we'll be joined by the man who wrote those very rules. Former Obama DOJ official Neil Cacho, but I want to begin with this panel Maya Wiley, former council, the mayor of New York City, and a former prosecutor in the southern district of New York, John Flannery form, a former counsel to three congressional investigations and Eugene Robinson Pulitzer prize winning columnist for the Washington Post. It is a historic night. I really appreciate each of you starting off our special coverage. John as a prosecutor versed in the interplay between the DOJ and the congress, what was Muller saying in your view about, what should be done with his report and evidence. I think he said you should treat. My report as my testimony and go forward Seneca, said that the fates lead you to your destiny or drag you to it. I think when he wasn't answering bars misstatement of his investigation he was saying to congress, I referred this to you and think about it. I mean, the House Judiciary committee, going to interview five hundred witnesses issue all those subpoenas. And they know the clock is running in one of the most obvious articles of impeachment is the refusal by the president to comply with requests for discovery for documents and witnesses, so they already have one point of five to ten and this is without considering other misconduct, by the White House. So I think what he's saying is it's time to do something. It's time to go to work. It's time to have if you will a probable cause hearing and decide what the articles of impeachment are, and then try with the five to twelve witnesses in the Senate. With Robert says the chief judge my he also spoke about the grave threat posed his view by obstruction of Justice. Take a look. It was critical for us to obtain full and accurate information from every person, we questioned when a subject of an investigation obstructs that investigation or lies to investigators. It strikes at the core of the government's effort to find the truth, and hold wrongdoers accountable. What was he doing there in your view and having covered so much of this story with us? What did you think watching Bob Mueller? Step out there today. I thought Bob Muller was doing exactly what Bob Muller does best. He is a subtle communicator around the fact that there is no exoneration on obstruction of Justice in this context with volume two of the report, you know, even in terms of all, you one when it comes to that Trump Tower meeting on June ninth, he, he says, in his report that one of the reasons they can't charge a campaign finance conspiracy as because of obstruction, so you also have to read the two volumes together. And I think what he's saying is exactly, as John said. It's like the evidence is there, I gave it to you do something with it do something and read it read it, gene Robinson listened to Bob Muller today. Imploring the public in. Again, this was really something imploring, the public to perhaps do more than many of our leaders ask than certainly people often feel like the level of discourse and here was a man who obviously feels that he's worked hard. He served his country. He does not want to be drawn into political sniping. He does not see his role as political, but he is asking us to do something. Take a look at his request. Beyond these few remarks. It is important that the offices ridden work speak for itself any testimony from this office would not go beyond our report. We chose those words carefully and the work speaks for itself. And the report is my testimony, I would not provide information beyond that which is already public in any appearance before congress chain. Well, a couple of things I, you know, let me let me start with the where he started basically, which was with the Russian interference, it was clear from the, the entire performance by molar today that he considers this an emergency. He considers this, a very serious effort by Russia to interfere with our election that had happened that it's going to happen again. You want people to pay attention to that second. The message to congress was was cleared. Now, I wish. He were a bit less subtle communicator, famous double negative, right? The evidence did not show that the president did not commit a crime any editor, Jean hundred with that same Pulitzer, gene. I'm not sure I don't know what you mean. Exactly, exactly. I'm not sure you don't know either any editor would slash out. Those two negatives and say the evidence shows the president committed a crime because that's what it shows the crime of obstruction of Justice. He lists all that evidence, much, much evidence in the report, any, any, any basically tells congress, it's update puny act. You can either act or you can say, never mind, whatever you do, though. Pay attention to the fact that our election was interfered with, and it's going to happen again. I want the whole panel hang with me as I bring on his promise Neil Kochav. Because when we talk about congress, you have at least forty members of the House Democratic caucus. And now, one Republican, we're on the record for at least impeachment proceedings. Then you have democratic leadership Pelosi Nadler, not on the record for even after today. Instead, they're saying, well what they really need next is Muller to testify, and he made it clear that's not where he's headed. Now I hope and expect this to be the only time that I will speak to you in this manner. I am making that decision myself. No one has told me whether I can or should testify or speak further about this matter. There has been discussion about an appearance before congress any testimony from this office would not go beyond our report. That's Muller's warning shot. You're not gonna get a lot more out of me if you make me testify in public, but in saying that no one's holding him back. He obviously is defending in effect his boss, Mr. bar in the Trump administration that has been accused in many people feel credibly accused of interfering with aspects of this probe and thus perhaps there was concerned they would interfere with Muller. That's not all on a narrow point. But an important one Muller goes out of his way to thank bar for his handling of all this. Torney general then concluded that it was appropriate to provide our report to congress and to the American people. At one point in time. I requested that certain portions of the report be released. The attorney general preferred make prefer to make the entire report public, all at once and we appreciate that. The attorney general made the report largely public and I certainly question the attorney general's good faith in that decision. Good faith on the release. The report as promise Neil Kochav, former acting solicitor, general, the United States who wrote those very rules that the special counsel continually cited and invoked as part of the restrictions and the authority that he exercised today. Neil always great to see you. Thank you for being with us on this night. Big picture. What do you think was important about what Muller said to the public today, given that large parts of it or familiar to you? And those who read the report. I think it's a pretty devastating day for President Trump. I think President Trump had hoped that attorney general bars up. This station of what Muller actually concluded would carry the day, people would kind of go home and forget, but there's been a drumbeat over the last weeks and leading up to Justin marshes. The Republican member of congress saying, hey, these are crimes in their impeachable offenses. And so all of that together, I think, has led Muller to come out today and say, you know, people are spending this, and all sorts of ways, and this is not what I said, in, so I disagree a little bit with what you just said before about how Muller gave bar kind of clean Bill of health and said it was okay. His conduct in general. Muller used words. He's just on the release just on the report, just just on the reports release and, you know, he didn't say anything about how bar got the obstruction of Justice stuff. Right. Or anything else, but he did not let me press you. Me press you on the deal today. Let me press you on that because this is something people at home, and I think around the country wondering I was talking to various sources people close to this today about it. There is a view that in the way Mr. bar released the information about the report and purported to issue, a ruling a judgment on whether or not to charge the president that, that is in direct contradiction with what Miller just said today, that the DOJ can't indict the president. And yet Muller. Also, I think what way out of his way I'm curious your view way out of his way to present some sort of comedy, some United front with bar. He never said, well, I respect him but we disagree about some of this. Now, it was like a thin ground of comedy. Only on one issue, which is the public release the document. And after all, remember Muller is the subordinate to attorney general bar. The very fact that he's even having a press conference. And talking about this suggests to me, something pretty serious is afoot. And I mean, really know this because Muller, did two things today he plucked out to parts of his report. And sure they were there before, but this is what he chose to emphasize number one. He said, I can't indict a sitting president, even if I wanted to the even if the president was guilty as sin, I couldn't do it. And number two, I can clear him. I could have if the evidence was there. And by the way, the evidence was not there. So those two things together to me suggest really kind of repudiation of what bar is doing certainly Muller saying, look, I can't indict the president. But I can you know you can write a report and you can read it for yourself since he what it says, I also can't indict bar. He's my boss, but you can read my report. And then compare it to what bar said and draw your own conclusions, and all of this is a setup to congress because Muller is writing this report against the backdrop of the Watergate in, whitewater investigations which were after all turned over to congress for their investigation. And that is what I think Muller is saying between the lines today. Neil as, as always lays it out, quite clearly, gene, as to the point about congress. Let me play a sitting member of congress who when pressed on this program says most of his colleagues, haven't read the report, take a look. Your question about that. Would you try to answer me, honestly, always be I swear to God. Well, sir, do you think the majority of members of congress have read the Miller report? No. I don't. Gene, you take Muller's aspirations or hopes. You take Neil's breakdown of the purpose of all this, and then you take a congress that allegedly according to some has not widely read the report and it handle the nuance that Muller was was resting his argument on today. Well, we'll see if they can handle the nuance if they would read the report. I mean. What, what do we pay them for right? We'd we do pay them to do their jobs. And it's their job to read the read this report, and they should read it. And then I think members of congress should ask themselves a question, and this isn't necessarily a legalistic question. But if you if you're not going to indict excuse me, if you're not going to start an impeachment and king into Donald Trump. Imagine tell me describe the president for whom you would start an impeachment inquiry. Right. I mean, a president who abused power president who use the instruments state to go after his political enemies, the president who lied to the American people all the time, maybe ITO described this hypothetical president, who, who does something that Donald Trump doesn't do all the time. I'll let that breathe for a second on a big night. A moment of reflection. Because you, you put it you put it down genius say this report, which Muller was really just going through the biggest takeaways from this in about nine minutes. Neil more dramatic person, and we've seen some more talkative loquacious types in law enforcement before could have done a lot more with it. He aired completely on the side of cairn reticence. But to genes point is he saying to congress, what more do you want me to do? And what greater conduct of use of power in that the laws be faithfully executed. Would you want if you ever, we're going to get to this point against the sitting president? Exactly are, and I think there's one key tell which is Muller's emphasis on, I can't a sitting president because it'd be unconscionable, every scholar who's taken that view in the Justice department when they did in those two opinions said the remedy to make sure that the president is above. The law is one thing impeachment. And so when you invoke the I can't indict a sitting president, you are invoking, suite of Thorndike's that says the remedy is a simple one, it is impeachment. I don't mean to say it's a simple process. That's the remedy that our founders had in mind and I take jeans point. Exactly. I mean, what are you there for, if not to stand up for the rule of law for a president who doesn't break the law, and intimidate witnesses offer pardons and all the other stuff? That's outlined in the report. There are now a thousand federal prosecutors former prosecutors who said, if I'm really I've read the report, and I would indict all of these. Things. Green with all. That was say, I just think we have to add one more point here, which is for Robert Muller after writing this report after doing the two years of investigation after bringing all these indictments after writing a report in which he explicitly says that there's this other path that and now today makes very clear we were never going to consider this from prosecutorial lens. We were only going to look at this as preservation of evidence and is essentially giving congress allowing the other process to go forward as it relates to Trump in a footnote. He explicitly says, by the way, congress also has in addition to impeachment the question of whether it wants to tighten up these laws. So for Bob Muller to actually say I'm done here. I don't wanna testify, you know, the book by Muller is the only testimony, you get is actually, to ignore the very. Thing he lays out and footnote, one thousand nine hundred eighty one which is congress actually has two jobs to do here. Consider impeachment and also consider, whether or not it has to consider legislation to make clearer how we have appropriate oversight if a president possibly committed crimes. You heard a digging in the crates. Have you ever heard of that? It means to look up old records Flannery and ten ninety one thank you. My ten ninety one says a possible remedy through impeachment for abuses of power would not substitute for criminal liability after a president leaves office, Maya Wiley digging into the footnotes to remind us that Bob Muller. If you read the report, which he asked you to do today uses the I-word, and post-presidential criminal indictment is both things that need to be considered. But as, as you say, my, the questions whether congress will make him have more this conversation in public than he wants their Coequal branch, they can make calls that he might disagree with got to fit in a break. Neil Cacho and mile Wiley. Thank you both so much. John gene will be back later in the hour coming up. I'm going to do a special breakdown on what this means for Congress's approach to potential impeachment. After Miller's message today and new questions tonight about Muller and bar, and the apparent daylight between them, even as we point out Muller was very careful not. To make that a focus of his remarks later in the hour. And this is important. When you look at a day like today, what molar didn't say legal experts are going to break down, why that's so important. And a key warning about the ongoing threat from bladder, MIR Putin. I'm Ari Melber. You're watching a special edition of the beat on MSNBC. Hi, it's Katy Tur want to keep up with MSNBC while you're on the go. Subscribe to the MSN be daily newsletter. You'll get the best of what you've missed or in this unprecedented era of news, text MSNBC two six six eight six six to subscribe. Bob Muller breaking his silence today to resign and hand off any further work to congress. The opinion says that the constitution requires a process other than the criminal Justice system to formally accuse a sitting president of wrongdoing. Muller flatly suggesting this is now only Congress's job, not the prosecutors or the press or the voters, but congress to decide if and whether high crimes committed by Donald Trump, so you could Pelosi not breaking any new ground today in response, while the chairman, who would oversee any impeachment probe Jerry Nadler stepped out here to respond. We do spec to impeachment question at this point. All options are on the table and nothing should be ruled out what special counsel. Mother said loud and clear today for the American people is that President Trump is lying when he says, no collusion. No obstruction, and that he was exonerated and that the constitution points to congress to take action to hold the president accountable, that's exactly what we will do. What is accountability Muller says that's for congress to decide not to outsource those judgments back to him? Or ask him go any further. Then he didn't his written report and Miller used this new rare speech today to basically warn the House, Democrats. They won't get an ounce. More from him if they subpoena testimony. I hope and expect this to be the only time that I will speak to you in this manner. There has been discussion about an appearance before congress any testimony from this office would not go beyond our report. Now, we're expects for itself. And the report is my testimony. The work speaks for itself. That's vintage Mullah right there. And he's echoing a classic legal concept that some things speak for themselves lawyers often, quote, this point in Latin recipes that local or to stress, how some evidence is so clear, you don't need to talk over Shakespeare, even famously invoked, the same idea to stress the limits of rhetoric one character proclaiming. What shall I say more than I have inferred? And this idea may be a rarity in our politics and society Muller, arguing today, his work does not require more words or inferences, the work exists. It speaks and Miller saying the only question left is what to do about it. Any testimony from this office would not go beyond our report? Now, we're expects for itself, and the report is my testimony. Former federal prosecutor Seth Waxman is here, along with Eugene Robinson. Seth what does that mean to you, why think Mr Miller has said that he's made his findings? He's laid down the gauntlet essentially in front of congress and is looking to congress to do its thing now, congress will bring in witnesses, and hopefully look at these documents this isn't being done in a vacuum right now. We have Mr. Trump thumbing, his nose at congress, saying, you're not going to get these documents, you're not going to get these witnesses. So what's congress to do? Are they going to abdicate responsibility? And essentially confirm, what Trump's always believed that he could walk out onto Fifth Avenue suits, someone and there'd be no consequence. If this impeachment were to take place, and he were to be charged because at the end of the day, that's what impeachment is charging document, then you look to the Senate as to whether there's a possibility of him, getting removed, but. Let me let me focus you on, on the core molar claim here, which is, you know, his legal. I'm sure you've heard that expression before. Right. I have. And there is a rebuttal to that. Here. I'm going to not present, you know, just Trump folks who attack Muller, either which way, but a credible rebuttal by Michael to Maskey a very talented writer who on the left, and he says Muller wants the evidence to speak for itself. The evidence, however was not allowed to speak for itself as he knows the attorney general spoke for it is, Bob Muller still playing by old rules on an imaginary neutral playing field when it's actually distorted an uphill from Bill bar and left to their own devices that leaves him sliding underground why think Mr. Moore thought today was evening that playing field where he came out made some very specific directed targeted comments to essentially say, look, the evidence is there just read it and do your job. So I think he may have leveled that playing field. I would, frankly, like to see Mr. MO. To a degree. I mean, bring in Jeanne because you're the careful prosecutor gene is the careful chronicler of Washington, gene. There are other prosecutors who also operated under these rules has similar rules who've come out and spoken more directly listed off. You know he didn't even mention today and again it's his call. I'm not second guessing, but I'm asking you if what we're to believe is that this is the last time he ever wants to speak than gene. Why didn't he say? By the way, we busted up a crime spree by Trump aids. The president's campaign chair and lawyer, and national security adviser are all convicted felons. Now Roger stone was hiding allegedly contacts related to stolen emails that were involved in, in tipping the election. And that's the destruction and we don't know what else we didn't get. He didn't do any of that y gene, or Jim would love to have been rubber Mola's editor. I would have had plenty of suggestions for how he might have done this. Nonetheless, I do agree that, that this, this was his way, I believe of, of leveling the playing field. He realized that his work had been distorted had been misrepresented, and that people hadn't read the report and, and by selecting the points to highlight that he highlighted, I think he did go considerable, way toward sort of getting the discussion back where he wanted it where he thinks it should be, you know, that said could he have done it in a punchier way? Absolutely. There's no question about them and substantively there were things. He just didn't get into Warner. The Senator is pushing pass what Muller said and saying, look, it's not his call. He may have to testify take a look. When it becomes a private citizen. There will be those in congress probably led by the house. That words him, but testify, and I think he'll have a responsibility to do something. Your view. Seth I entirely agree with that. Bob Muller by reputation by experiences his a renowned and well respected individual, but no one's above responding to a subpoena. And there are countless questions that are left on answer. You know why didn't Don junior testify. Why didn't the president testified those parts of the reporter redacted was it because they plead the fifth or told they were going to be pled. The plead the fifth. I mean impeachment is a political process. It does not have to arise to criminal conduct to constitute impeachment grounds. So if the American people, and congress were to here, for example, that the president of the United States was invoking, the fifth that, that could be something that could be considered many other questions. So having Mr. Moore, speak today was obviously very telling and it raises a lot of questions and, and gives the American people feel for what happened, but testify under oath in front of congress would be that much more eliminating, I think it's owed to the American people. And congress, gene Robinson said wax. Thank you both up ahead. Democrats calling for this testimony win a look at what Muller didn't say. And why that could matter so much also are definitive breakdown of despite Muller's careful and polite presentation, we have the receipts in the facts of the way he rebutted, Mr. bar, and the Trump DOJ when we're back in thirty seconds. In his first ever public remark to special counsel today. Bob Muller addressed why there was no conclusion about whether Donald Trump actually committed the crime of obstruction and in the process, he went forward in ways that would suggest contradictions of his boss, which is someone who's worked with for decades. Of course. Now attorney general Bill bar Muller saying the Justice department has rules that prevent the charging of a sitting president with a crime, no matter what evidence they find mirrors what Muller, of course, wrote in the report, but it also differs in the takeaway if not in the careful lawyer ease of what bar told everyone in April emphasizing that Muller bar said didn't find a crime at all. And that was there for up to bar and bar loan to then make some sort of charging decision. And then, of course, as you know, he concluded that he says there was no reason to charge Donald Trump Muller today makes it clear he decided early on. He wouldn't even go down the road of that type of question. We specifically asked him about the O L C opinion. And whether or not he was taking the position that he would have found a crime, but for the existence of the O L C opinion, and he made it very clear. Several times that that was not his position. So that was just a department policy. Those were the principles under which we operated and from them, we concluded that we would would not reach a determination one way or the other about whether the president committed a crime a mullah's report, he also suggested this is all too congress. We concluded. He writes the congress has the authority to prohibit presidents corrupt use of it. Thority Melissa striking. A similar note today in comments that appeared to break with bar. Especially council Muller did not indicate that his purpose was to leave the decision to congress. I am told that his reaction to that was that it was my, my prerogative as attorney general to make that decision. The opinion says that the constitution requires a process other than the criminal Justice system to formally accuse a sitting president of wrongdoing, I am joined now by Matt Miller, who has set up exactly the kind of press conference as you just saw there, the Justice department and former prosecutor, John Flannery, Matt, what was Muller getting at in the careful way that he laid out his arguments while stressing to the extent that it came up that he was not. He says questioning Mr. bar. Well, you know, he I think he was making clear when he said that about he didn't wasn't questioning Bill bars. Good faith. He was really confining that those remarks to a very specific thing to Bill. Bars not exercising good faith in. The way he released the report. But I do think his by choosing to use the words, he did he set a lot of things about his report today, he chose to make these various specific remarks about why he didn't make a determination. I think that was pretty clearly to correct the public record in the same way that he thought the initial letter that Bill bar sent to congress had left of mis impression with the American public, we know that because he wrote a letter complaining, I think he today, wanted to set the record straight, because Bill bars press conference and subsequent testimony to congress and his interviews with Fox News had left misimpression with the American poet. Now, anyone that has read the Muller report would have known that, what Bill bar said and those clips, you just showed was misleading but a lot of people have the report misleading, and that's, that's what I am. This is not that thing when I'm just asking questions really genuinely trying to understand this that because I'm gonna play for you. Some of the things Mr. bar said that even if technically arguably defensible, they left people, and the public and plenty of experts. With the impression that bar was saying Muller, didn't find enough criminal evidence. And that's not what Muller said, take a look. He reiterated several times in a in a group meeting that the he was not saying that, but for the opinion he would have found obstruction if the special console found facts sufficient to constitute obstruction of Justice. Would he have stated that finding? If he had found that then I think he would stay at. Yes, that yes or no on may. I did bar have reason to know that, that statement was not accurate. Yeah. Of course, he did look bar Muller had said in the report that it would be unfair for me to accuse the president of a crime even. And that's what you know what bars saying there that, you know, he doesn't think Muller would would would have said that, well, he, he specifically said, not only not charge a president, but because I can't charge a president. It's unfair for me to accuse him because there's no way for him to clear his name in court. So I hated. Hey to draw you out mad on potentially breaking with the your esteemed colleagues at the Justice department, but several outlets including MSNBC has reported today, that the molar Justice department officials have said, no, they were releasing material to show. There was no conflict on that very point between bar and Muller. What do you say to that? You know, there's a lot of internal politics that goes on inside the Justice department. I don't know how that statement came to be. I don't know who asked to put it out. I wouldn't want to speculate. But if you just look at the facts. You don't think it flies? I don't think it flies. Let me in. Yeah, there's no way you can look at what he said, Kamila Miller says it doesn't fly, it's my job. The report, what we're hearing. So when we hear from someone from the molar side, that they were trying to demonstrate unity, I'm going to report that we're hearing that I'm also going to report, the receipts Flannery, which look like that's really hard to square because I just showed you the attorney general United States under oath to the congress acting like had there been more evidence molar could have and would have said, oh, the president committed a crime, which is the opposite of the report it is the opposite of the report. And like you said, it's only witches that fly, I suppose, I mean you have to deny what your eyes see years here from bar in contradiction to Muller Muller. Maybe a half speed to elegant and his argument in the sense that he contradicted the four-page misleading letter than it is March twenty seven th letter. He said, you've misrepresented my, my investigation, and today, he set the record straight. And on the one hand we had bar- trying to. Delay the world knowing what the report was really about both by that four page letter. And by the slow release of the report that does not the find objection in in Muller. And then you have ironically enough, you have the congress leadership sort of assuming the, the mantra, if you will have car pay Montana. And if anything is true about today's pronouncement by Muller, it is get moving is there. It is has it for you. Carpeting Montana is impressed. And instead of carpet, diem got. I got. I figured, you got it, but, you know, some people in the Justice department don't understand what Muller said. So maybe sometimes we have to explain I work. One piece at a time I go, slowly. But that I mean this, this really gets to the heart of it, right? Because at the end of the day. Bob Muller was authorized to look at a lot of stuff. But the highest profile most pivotal, call related to the potential criminal evidence against the president that, yeah, that's right. And it also the can thing is what ought to be done about that. And that's why what Bill bar said was so important. Bill bar, basically said the case was closed. And when he was asked at that press conference if Muller didn't make this determination, because he thought it ought to be left to congress. He said, well, I would hope that would not be his opinion because that's not our job is prosecutors our job is to make determinations and Muller was saying in his report and saying very clear today in this one special instance, when the president, not anyone else that one person who can't be indicted it is our job. The constitution says, and the oil, seep Pinon says that we are supposed to leave that to congress. And that is so important because it means the case is not closed the cases open for congress to pick up and run with it. They want to and so given the nuances of this kind of communication, because the job you how this is different from most other agencies that are secrecy rules Muller operated with. Menace secrecy. He worked off site from the DOJ, and all the rest and the end is your view that Bob Muller, could not necessarily match the communication skills and challenges of this particular environment with all of the tremendous legal skills, and unquestioned integrity, he had during the investigation because the result of what you're saying is that bar at a practical level was effective in part of what you described as duplicity look, I think Muller his team were acted appropriately but maybe of eventually a little bit naive. I wish that they would have come out and the special counsel would have made the statement he made today on the day that he transmitted his report to the attorney Joe now in his defense, it, you shouldn't expect eternal general to act in bad faith in the way that Bill bar did. So I I suspect they never expected him to act that way. So I don't really blame them for what they did. But it would have been the better course of action to pain control. This story from the get go to make sure no one. Else could take ownership of it. Well, the, the constraint on Muller, though, is he abides by the law, and we had an attorney general who is nothing more than a spokesperson for the defendant or subject of the investigation. And I think that facts are stubborn thing to go back to John Adams, and that these facts, stubbornly, persists, the question that we have to face, we don't need a tree. We need a triage that is we shouldn't be chasing Muller to have him testify, when he's what he's going to do that sphere, and we covered that on the testimony earlier in the show. John, let you go. Let me press you on that your arguing that molar is Batman and bar is the joker, and you have a fight between someone who follows the rules and someone who does not in your extended analogy. You have the joker saying, well that's the rule. You're going to have to break, but your argument does cut against what Muller painstakingly did today, which was to the extent. He addressed it at all. He. Presented unity with bar, not a joker like battle. Well, every hero has his faults the tragedy. But this can yet the classic comedy in the sense that we can overcome the tyrant that sits in the west wing using the facts that he found elsewhere. In his report does every hero live long enough to become a villain. Not all heroes become villains. But we all have character flaws. All right. Let me just quickly say, I'm not asking wouldn't ask Bob Muller to go the full, Jim Komi. But Batman, also knew when to kind of stretch the rules a little bit. We'll leave it there mad at John. Thank you so much. I'm gonna finish quick break. But when we come back, there's some big questions at of the left open. Why? And why is that the key to understanding where we go next? We have all of that coming up. Bob Muller ju- line today, saying he doesn't intend to go beyond his written report in any public testimony. But somehow Democrats say tough, and there's a lot they may want to ask him about consider that Muller, didn't mention the thirty plus indictments is office issued in today's remarks. He didn't mention the six Trump aides from the campaign chair to Donald Trump's personal lawyer and Trump mortgage executive, who's sitting in prison right now, we're also did not address Donald Trump's attacks on the probe including not only the efforts to remove molar, which are in the report, but a lot of other public comments and attempts to obstruct, he also didn't address Bill bars conclusion that Muller's evidence failed to establish Trump committed obstruction. Think about what a big deal that is because we've been talking and reporting tonight about the space between bar and Muller Muller didn't even come it on the way that bar. Did that implying that it was his call to say there was nothing to be charged and also the Miller did not? Not really address most of the elements of this Pacific accident. He investigated about obstruction. Muller also said only congress can formally accused the sitting president of wrongdoing. Today he never used the I-word in his remarks. Although as eagle-eyed Maya Wiley, and others appointed out even just on this broadcast. It's something he did discuss at least in the footnotes of his report, so given all those open questions, we want to dig into what's left, unsaid. I am joined by NBC's, Julia Ainsley, who has decamped from her post at the Justice department to our Washington bureau, and we're thankful for the part of our coverage. And former federal prosecutor, Glenn Kirshner who worked directly for Bob Muller and the district of Columbia, US attorney's office, Glenn, you obviously have come on here before and praised Bob Muller and many people understand that what even you I would have to admit there were things that he chose not to address today that could have been useful. Ari I'm going to make the case controversial though, it may be that, Bob Muller, does not need to testify before congress. And here's why first of all, prosecutors don't testify about what witnesses said in courtrooms around the country every day. Judges instruct juries that the words of a prosecutor in the words of a defense attorney are not evidence. The evidence are the words that come from the mouths of the witnesses. That's point number one. We don't need Bob Muller to say. Oh, Don Mcgann told us that the president told him to fire special counsel. And when he refused, the president told him to lie we need. Don, Mcgann to say that to the American people into congress, number two, I suspect that a congressional appearance by Bob Muller would turn into a circus. The Democrats would probably want to ask him about. Oh, I don't know Hillary Clinton's emails and the Democrats. And the democrat twenty one point number one is important because as. You say, we're not looking to do a lot of hearsay and redo point. Number two, I'm gonna call you on. That's a fine argument against congressional hearings for now. And for a long, while the way they go before it turns to Julia, I want you address the issue in today's remarks, he did choose to speak about certain things. He downplayed any issues with Donald Trump's handpicked AG, do you think it would have been more constructive to meet them head on? I mean I would love to have a beer with Bob Muller and for twelve hours here everything that he thinks about the pro but that, that great intro that you did with all of those questions are there. All interesting. They're all things we want to know the answer to, but none of them go to the core of whether this president committed impeachable offenses, and to get to that, and to call away everything else, we need the witnesses. Julia. You've had a front row seat. You have been dealing with a lot of the primary, folks close to this. What is your view of those unanswered questions? And as we reflect on this day, what's, what's your view of what we've learned? Well, I think we've learned that Robert Muller, did leave the door wide open to congress to come in and answer some of these questions because you're right. He didn't get into the I-word. He really hasn't answered the fundamental question that he was charged with was, which was did the president commit a crime. Now he went back today and said that he was appointed to find out if there was conspiracy between the Russian government and the Trump campaign. And so it was worthwhile to look at all of these things, even if you couldn't indicted sitting president because there are people around the president who need to be investigated, and it's important to memorialize the evidence of sue haven't, and not wait until this president is out of office. And of course, he wanted to explain what he wanted to look at obstruction because that is at the heart of our Justice system. But the, the key, quote that we all jotted down in real time as quickly as we could is that he said, the criminal Justice system is not the place to write the, you know, this part of the criminal Justice system. Is not the place where you take the wrongdoings of a president. So he's leaving that door wide open. Again, to be clear is not the impression that bar left when he said, oh, it's a jump ball, I gotta deal with it. So, so important, I want to play one more part of Muller since it was him. Speaking out his Glenn. Do you know the expression word is bond? Word is bond. Sure, Bob Muller gave his version of that here. And I think it bears repeating we touched on this earlier in our coverage. But for viewers around the country, watching he is saying very clearly. My word is my bond. My report is my testimony. And as as you've been arguing Glenn, it's now time for congress to put up or maybe shut up take a look. No, I hope and expect this to be the only time that I will speak to you in this manner. There has been discussion about an appearance before congress any testimony from this office would not go beyond our report. No work speaks for itself. And the report is my testimony, Glenn your bottom line. His his word is his bond has reported his testimony. And now we can spend lots of time over the coming weeks, debating whether Bob Muller, Willer won't testify will it be public behind closed doors or a hybrid. Or we can focus on why the White House is trying to prevent people from coming before congress and testifying when frankly, they have no right to stomp down on those witnesses that I think, is what people should be focusing on at this point. And julia. I'm over on time, but in a sentence, or to do you think this is the last time we'll hear from Bob Muller on this issue it appeared to be so that the last thing I would say that to glens point? When the president says congresses having a do over it's clear from Robert Muller that it's not a do over intact. It might be the necessary course of action Glennon. Julia, thank you so much. And we'll be right back. We one more thing. Russian intelligence officers who are part of the Russian military launched a concerted attack on our political system. The releases were designed and timed to interfere with our election and to damage a presidential candidate. Bob Muller gets the final word. They're speaking to the stakes of his investigation in Russian meddling that he indicted that does it for a special coverage new from meet the press that Chuck Todd cast. It's an insider's take on politics, the twenty twenty election and more candid conversations with some of my favorite reporters about things we usually discuss off camera. Listen for free wherever you get your podcast.

Donald Trump Muller president congress President Trump congress Bob Muller Muller Bill bar Muller Muller Robert Muller prosecutor special counsel attorney Justice department Trump Muller gene Robinson John Bob Mueller
Nancy's Plan

The Daily Beans

51:34 min | 1 year ago

Nancy's Plan

"<music> hello and welcome to the daily beans for Thursday July Twenty Fifth Twenty nineteen brought to you by Wednesday today. We're going to cover the Muller testimony <hes> the pros and cons the overall view. were seeing what Pelosi in the committee chairs had to say about impeachment each man. I'm your host A._G.. And with me today Arja Lisa Johnson hello and Jordan Coburn Hello. How's it going guys rate big day for five this morning right yup up to listen to the opening statements off to a bunch of new shows and interviews and things and now we're here <hes> we've been checking in on twitter and you know and that's not going to say that we can understand like everyone's in in America's thoughts by what we see on twitter from our followers but it's a nice sample it is it's a good sampling and it's I think the important part is that its intelligent people that follow us and you guys and fortunately yeah some smart fan? I think we've cultivated <hes> <music>. <hes> some people call it. A bubble is as surrounding yourself with amazing people but I think we can maybe get sort of a general overview of how the feelings are today. I've watched a couple of different mainstream news networks to see what they think and kind of what the word on the street is quote unquote. I don't think we're gonNA feel the impact of this probably for another day or two right. My body feels it but yeah I think the country probably won't feel it for a couple of days right like I just had an intense love affair but I was thinking very quickly yeah and and you're like did I hate it or did I like it yeah. I can't tell lots of process to miss him. Say No more to me say no. He definitely answered like he was on a lie detector. Though yeah total true Yep track nope true yeah I just I kept thinking the whole time about that quote from McCabe spoke about how they just want to get out alive right. Molar dazzling looked like he was just trying to survive minimize your exposure and get out alive. I think is how is how he put it and <hes> yeah. I think you were saying something every time he was sitting back in his chair. <hes> I kept thinking about that description in McCain's book about him sitting back in his chair like <hes> and then like you'd scratches Chin and then like maybe he'd go <hes> and that would mean he was like upset about something. I was just remembering that description action from from McCabe and I did see what Dave some of our friends in the past show guests have <hes> you know at least emotional but maybe not for the daily beans have said about his testimony including David Priests and Andrew McCabe <hes> some folks like that pre Berrara for a lot of people have weighed in Chuck Rosenberg and so we'll touch on all that so I'm excited to <hes> to get going into discuss this. It's it's going to be all muller wall-to-wall Miller for the entire episode so buckle up. We'll do it right now with hot notes hot notes. I'm just going to bring up things that I noticed you. Guys can feel free to bring up things you noticed but I wanna Kinda hit hit the hot notes basically what we're here for and we'll just discuss what we think about him so the first thing that I walked away with was that Muller confirmed in my is that the president's actions in volume two met the criteria to charge a person with obstruction of justice yeah he went very out of his way to make sure he didn't explicitly say that or say anything that could even potentially be explicitly deduced as that having been what was said but I agree I think for him and how he talks and how he communicates that definitely is what was going on. Yeah it's important to understand Muller language like you're saying and I think most people won't pick up on that immediately but yeah that's definitely a takeaway that I got as well as you yeah me too and I think that that was important for the American people to learn so chalk one up and the pros call them. I think sadly important I mean if you're interpreting that way or have a friend that can explain to you that that's what that means. That's kind of the double edged sword of that speech. I guess is you could hear that and be like okay so he's saying they didn't find any conclusive evidence <hes> on on this one thing and then on the other thing <hes> he's not GonNa do anything about it because he can't unless you truly understand why he can't then that kind of scares me. I'M GONNA be honest yeah so that he can't like the memo <music>. I'm afraid some people will listen to that and take it way too at face value just the language of he cannot indict Donald Trump and he chose not to okay and I am not understanding each opinion in exactly and he was also getting grilled golden hounded for <hes> have to remember exactly what Republican was grilling him l._l._c. his interpretation of the L._l._C. opinion exactly <hes> there were there were quite a few too because I noticed and we'll get more into the into that Oh l._l._c. and when we say l._l._c. l._l._c. we mean the Department of Justice Office of Legal Counsel Opinion Longstanding opinion that says you cannot indict a sitting president because he's too busy basically he wouldn't be able to fulfill his constitutional duties it could it could impede on the constitutional duties which is which would violate the checks the balance of power in a lot of people brought up as far as talking heads great points about challenging that memo because it's not in the constitution and if the argument is that the President is too busy and trump goes on the record at his rallies saying I've got all night. You know it's like well in this case we might be able to to do that yeah. It's just an opinion and they wrote it during Watergate <hes> within the agnew timeframe I think when that whole bag man that podcast you know if you listen to that if you haven't it's amazing you should listen to it now when that whole situation went down because they're like what do we do and right well. We have to come up with some sort of opinion about whether or not you can indict a president or vice president so this just says President I think it also includes Vice V._p.'s veeps but <hes> I think think I think the takeaway from eldest is first point is that there were a couple of <hes> representatives had really good lines of questioning regarding the obstruction of justice and this is exactly what I tweeted at them <hes>. I think it was four days ago. I'm not saying that they read my tweet in like employed my ideas not literally but you put those good vibes out in the universe verse am I wasn't the only one a lot of people wanted him to do this. I'm sure and that was to outline <hes> the three criteria that you need to obtain and maintain attain a conviction for obstruction of justice go through the things that trump did ask if that meets the criteria and then say okay so then he meets the criteria for obstruction of justice Ted lieu had the strongest one of these and I think Hakeem Dean Jeffries and also Christian McCaffrey had a similar line of questioning and they in the beginning it was a little shaky I found but once they got their groove and each representative had their own obstructive act that they were going through and they went through. I think five or six of them in this way and that's exactly what how I wanted them to to tackle it just keep doing that until you run at a time absolutely <hes> and so Ted Lieu <hes> he actually had to have a correction made <hes> muller had to correct himself on what but Ted Lieu said because Ted lieu went through the three things and this is about the Lindau Psghetti obstructive act where trump affluent douse key to tell Jeff sessions that <hes> the special counsel can only investigate future elections not me and and <hes> so Lewandowski's like Nah no no not GonNa do that but <hes> you don't have to complete an obstructive act in order to be guilty of obstruction of justice right so basically Ted lieu after that said so the reason you didn't he he went through all the things and he said did you do that. Yes did you do that. Did you do that. Yes he met the three criteria yes and the reason you didn't indict Donald Trump is because of the oil C- opinion saying you can't indict a sitting president is that correct a muller said correct. That's a bombshell for a lot of people yeah because all it indicates that he was guilty of obstruction and I didn't indict him because the memo which breaks his own rule of saying someone's guilty of obstruction right which is why my question is did he just not think quickly enough to understand what asking for help or was that a Freudian slip. I feel like he got got M- honestly I really do. I think there were a couple of instances where he got got <hes> that being specifically one of them. He came back later but D._O._J.. Probably called up the office special counsel it was like. What the Fuck Bro so he came on and he said <hes> you did not charge the president because the oil C- opinion that's the wrong way to say that as we say on the report we did not reach a determination as to whether or not President committed a crime so I'm with you I think is I answer correct and he was he was just maybe not on guard or just answering it and then I don't know I don't know but that was the correction <hes> and actually trump came out after instead a bunch of stuff and trump somebody asked him about what you were talking about federalist which was Ken Buck Colorado Republican who said so wait? You're you're saying you can indict the president after he leaves office and he said Yep and he says you can indict the President United States for obstruction of justice after leaves office and he's like correct yeah I. I don't know why he asked that question. No I don't think he meant I think he was like shocked by the answer Yeah Yeah Yeah I can write and we've talked about says the memo but it's he was specifically talking about trump and obstruction of justice implying that trump obstructed obstructed justice and could be charged with crime once he leaves office because of what he did and so then trump was like some reporter asked about that. Are you scared you could be charged after you've and he started yelling you your fake news and that you know if you knew what you were doing your your terrible. You're untruthful. If you knew what you're doing you would know that he corrected that he came back and corrected the record on that and that is not true. He was conflicting that with Ted Lieu Correction Interesting. I'm glad you brought that up. I also saw another trump <hes> comment after the hearings where he said that Muller never had the right to exonerate him or the authority to exonerate him after he would chant total exoneration so it's another flip flop on trump's part yeah I was another line of questioning that the Republicans brought up that was one of their more stronger legal arguments though I think for sure probably planning these words like exoneration. It's like oh well. He never had the authority but I think trump really doesn't know but the fact what if Muller Muller truly the reason why I think it was a good line of questioning is because they got muller to establish wish that Bar does not have the authority to exonerate someone and then by the virtue of Muller being under bar he one hundred percent wouldn't have the authority to do that. So why would you even put that in the report especially since it's a huge sound bite right now so oh that's actually a good argument it's not I don't agree with right with what they're saying I don't I don't agree with why they're saying. Molar decided to say that in the report. I don't think that Muller was putting it in there trying to pull a fast one knowing he can't technically exonerate it. I think he was saying exonerate. More colloquially not not like <hes> which is becoming like a frigging buzzword but I appreciate that it definitely makes sense especially considering that bar is the one that really gets hurt by the argument as opposed to Muller who doesn't need to exonerate anyone to make a great point but if your argument is that you can't exonerate somebody then why are you mad that he also didn't have an opinion as to whether or not he was guilty because yeah because they just are attacking it from all angles because for that was oh well. That's just you being a bad prosecutor. Every prosecutor in general knows your job is to decide to charge someone or not and that's it and then like well. I'm not a fucking prosecutor. I'm a special counsel investigator. Yeah Guy from Wisconsin Contin kept asking him like why. Why did you do it that way and he you know because back? Here's what Ken started. This is what can start. It and he's like you realized that those I don't work under those regulations. We'll do you know what the regulation under Ken Starr said with this. He's like no. I was working under the current special counsel regulations. I don't know I haven't looked at nor why would I will let me tell you what yes yeah. That was the whole thing like yeah he could come out with a not a prosecutorial decision or prosecute like a like a judgment meant could make a judgement and and could ask for impeachment where he <hes> he didn't do that directly. He sort of implied it so I thought that was fancy. I think another point where they're logic fell through and I just remembered what I was thinking of the beginning of the show so one of the Republicans still remembers him. Why was I was saying so if you were going off of the O. L. C. Memo in L._L._C. opinion that allows <hes> basically they were saying if you knew that you could indict him? Why would you continue to investigate him right? What was the Wisconsin Guy yes and then and then Muller's answer which I feel like this went largely? Maybe not overlooked but at least not repeated when I feel like it should be repeated. Is that the O. L. C. opinion actually allows for the investigation to continue you even if the subject would not be indicted. That's explicitly lay down the O._C.. Opinion as molar stated it is and it's in his report and he's also said that the reason that they permit that investigation is that you can gather the evidence because the president can be indicted once he leaves office and you want to get all of the evidence and materials while they're still fresh in people's minds the testimony and the evidence before people destroy it or while it still available things disappear. This is the same argument I think for the impeachment create which is what you're talking about. Essentially in the same language you could apply both things because as we know that he won't be removed by the Senate but that's not a reason to not go through with a right. Don't open these inquiries to be like definitely I got you it's because someone committed a crime potentially and they need to investigate it. That's really all this so far. It's the same reason that the house is passing housing bills right now. It's their job. The Senate's not going to even bring them to vote. They're going to block every single one. They want them on the record as having blocked these bills they want them on the record as having not send aid to these places. That's the same for impeachment. It's your job. You don't do it whether or not you think it's going to pass the Senate. You don't write a bill otherwise there'd be no bills coming out of the House on top of that. If you apply to like a prosecutors whole practice they don't I guess they is in people's Society isn't like get one. Someone just makes charges. You know to get the indictment you know. It's like the idea. Is You want people to look at the entire case and you'll have some prosecutors who are known sketchy because they'll just have like a ninety percent indictment rate because all these sketchy loopholes or whatever's going for the win as opposed to the details so it's not even a good thing to say like you're a good prosecutor if you get the chargers that's not what it's about. It's about the process right Yep Yep <hes> I totally agree <hes> I think <hes> so we have to Awesomeness Mrs Right now. We've got that Ken Buck Republican saying he'd be charged for obstruction after leaves office and we've got that <hes> he committed obstruction of justice crimes generally. Did you see the mini conversation about tolling that happened. When they brought up the sash limitations and more was like I don't know yeah yeah because it doesn't toll that's what the questioners yet yeah and then he was like that Westerner <hes> yeah exactly? I don't know which is kind of one of those things where there were a few instances where it was like. I feel like you either. You do know this or like you just don't WanNa go on record saying it but usually he would say something else if he didn't WanNa go on record saying it. Yes I feel like that's something he would know yeah at that point like that's one of that's one of the main question. I'm not GonNa talk about that doc because he said that a lot I have no idea he said that a lot too so yeah yeah which sounds bad to kind of right. I have no idea like I understand more on. Actually I'm sure you have more of an idea than anyone else but he won't say anything that indicates bads even thinks it right sometimes saying that you you aren't going to discuss it could indicate that you are answering in the negative or the affirmative but one of the down sides for me today and and this this has its upsides. I just think that overall people are going to really wonder why <hes> he didn't subpoena the president and he said <hes> we had because it was a balancing act between do we have enough to prosecute without the interview and how long the interview take and you have to weigh those two options and he said if we subpoenaed the president because he was like I tried to get him to talk to me for a year and a half and that his answers were shit so I knew if I subpoenaed him. He was gonNA fight the subpoena. They even told me he was gonNA fight. The subpoena. If I succeed in I had the power participated the president but I chose not to because he would have fought it in court it would have gone on it could've gone on for a year or years to waste the time he's but I had enough evidence to not say that he obstructed justice or indict him of obstruction of justice but we had enough we had the evidence we needed and that also implies that he obstructed justice because you can't have enough evidence for something that doesn't exist yeah well and also just going back to the exoneration thing too. I really don't see why he would have put. That in there unless he was thinking that he could be indicted. Exactly I mean eight hundred clues to it. You just can't get him to directly. Admit it yeah he just he. I think he did his best to tell us in his own special way yeah <hes> but I do think people are going to be like <hes> and I know that <hes> McCabe answered this and and Rosenberg answered this <hes> while talked about it saying yeah it's it baffles me because he's so thorough why he didn't don't follow that through to it's likely conclusion and then the counter argument here is that he when he asked if he spoke to trump junior he said no comment and when he asked if he supported trump junior said no comment I think he subpoenaed subpoena trump junior. I I'm I'm almost one hundred percent sure because of some of the grand jury reductions in in the Miller report and that that he went before the grand jury and pleaded the fifth and even after that whole fight if he had subpoenaed trump trump would have come in and he would have pleaded the fifth breath and it would be nowhere else we would just be another two years out yeah was that swale well who is asking that I forget which person was without great when he was asking <hes> if he he asked about junior and then he wouldn't an answer and then he asked about trump then immediately answered yeah and that was yeah. That was a really good juxtaposition because it's like a liar Lee. There's something yeah I was thinking. My first thought was is there is he involved in some kind of ongoing matter maybe or is is there some reason why he wouldn't answer and I can't see it being. I don't want to go after the president's son. I can't minnow a civilised that there's two specific reasons first of all he's a grand jury witness and the grand jury materials have not been handed over the Congress and even if they were the public can't no grand jury secrecy so even whether or not he whatever pleaded the fifth or whatever we can't know that and then he also might not have done it because he said he would not speak about uncharged third parties for privacy MHM which is trump junior but we are talking about the president specifically so I think he was able to to say that <hes> even though he's an uncharged third party I don't think privacy applies to him in this specific instance particularly because he did not give testimony to the grand jury might have behooved him to done to do so interesting yeah yeah yeah. Maybe not though probably not anyway that was one. Maybe negative was that he didn't follow through with that getting getting the interview sure <hes> with trump. I think what was made extremely apparent today or yesterday <hes> when you're listening to this is that expeditious snus was of the utmost importance turns to him. He referenced that the reason why he hired this specific people was because they would get it done in the most expeditious manner and the right there he was weighing out. Is it going to be worth the time to try to get this testimony from the president so he he was like extremely dedicated to getting this done as quickly and as thoroughly as he could and I imagine one of the reasons he didn't take forever to just keep pushing and pushing and pushing his because he wasn't investigator knowing that he would essentially be passing this information off to other individuals in committees and parties to continue investigating anything about your legacy if you went through that whole shuffle with trump subpoena on obstruction and meanwhile <hes> you didn't get the information about the Russian interference in the election out prior to twenty twenty <hes> we already know it but I think Oh God yeah Tugela another timing issue for the F._B._i.. P._T._S._d. from Komi and all that for sure yeah <hes> he didn't want to be that kind of martyr and I wouldn't blame him job. There's no no obligation to go above and beyond that but yeah obviously as militia wrote you know as we are yeah we want that to happen and also in the context of all the other ways he wasn't gonna be able to obtain evidence that he needed outside of trump's testimony just because whatever what's at messages things that have been deleted and destroyed. It's like there's a whole web of ends. He's not gonna be able to see through because of frigging tampering yeah yeah exactly <hes> just uncooperative and the most transparent most cooperative now. You're not least racists yeah. He's the most genius merit attached to the brain most all the good things in the least all the bad thing yeah that that you'll ever see that the world has ever Yes yes. I read on the Internet. If you read the Internet. That's my lease on the Internet. If you read the Internet or Acute Democrats terribly terrible if anyone wants to see that muller is not the best public speaker just think about who he's you know compared to and that's another downside. I think that Moeller wasn't performing at his peak today. I don't know usually what he performs like but I did see David priests who used used to brief him on the daily <hes> as he when he was in the CIA who we've had on this show say that's not the Bob Mueller. I'm used to as not the Bob Baller I know but it is but he had every single answer and he was the the content of of what he said is what's important not the way he delivered it and it was devastating to the president. Totally Yeah Yeah Yeah. I felt that some of the G._O._P.. Leaders were incredibly disrespectful how they were reacting to how Muller Muller was reacting himself as well. Something I really pissed me off was <hes> when they would start a new person would start talking into the microphone and Miller would just be kind of looking around them and then they'd be like over here. It's like dude the P._A.. Hey goes to everyone you fucking idiot over a microphone doesn't help locate where you are in the Riach Stereo Sound Muller Polo Yeah exactly they were and then every every witness does that a two by the way young mark Zuckerberg can't locate who's talking to you and you have to and you have to do this weird like you're watching a tennis match like to the left and the top to the right scan the top to the bottom scandal thing and they're talking the whole time while they're referencing a page that they I want you to be on and then you're like okay. Can you repeat the question. There was a lot of that yeah seven hours of that. There'd be a little light or something like in front of there like yeah. I don't know like those bases. I think there there's I and that's another reason I don. I wanted the DEM's not to go. This wouldn't have helped with the Republicans but I really wanted like just one or two prosecutors in there and mostly to do follow up <hes> because and to be able to rebut what the Republicans were doing because you don't have time when you're doing your five minute thing to you know go back to something that somebody said that was incorrect completely false <hes> and for example Doug Collins who kept you know poking out him like you didn't even cross examine any of these witnesses. Did you cross examine any of them. Were innocent until proven guilty. They didn't even get do prostate and get cross examination and my answer would have been like the ones who were convicted and went to court were cross examined in front of a jury of their peers. We don't cross examine people role in investigation right. You don't correct me if I'm wrong anyone who knows this shit but I'm pretty sure you only cross examined at trial which is something come back comes. After a plea deal. We're after a shitty try but the average person does not know that I didn't even know that and I think a lot of people like the Republicans are betting on think about any cop show you watch and they bring them in and they sit him down in that room and they go. There's not somebody else there to besides the lawyer but yeah in that yeah that's my really cross trials like the main event right in most cases ideally can settle before it gets to that point in which case it's just GonNa be the the defendant or whatever and the judge and then they're council totally are due process takes takes place in the trial in and that's an but he's well you didn't even you didn't afford like he's talking to you like it was just so frustrating and then the next dem would just go straight into so let's talk about sharks new justice charges and you're like could you address what but then you're using your five minutes and then it pushes everybody else back and then maybe you don't get to as many of those outlying to three criteria for obstruction of justice pieces that you want to get to write those are actual distractions yeah but if you have one or two prosecutors who say we're GONNA ask all these questions but. We're also going to counter what these guys are saying yeah but I guess the I guess the gamble was that the Republicans are just so dumb that but they actually did well today. If you believe bullshit you know what I mean right yeah. I think that exoneration example is a good one because I'm sure that if I you know a Democrat that was already anticipating that point was going to be directly after that person they could address it very quickly. Explain away why that's not a you know why there's some fallacy in that argument which is what a lot of the Republicans had I think is complete pitfalls and arguments that sound good but there are some you know major point to their argument that is faulty in based on something. That's either not matching the case that is his existence as an investigator and not the prosecutor <hes> or something else. I feel like it was mostly that right but for their benefit those are the moments where muller seemed to drop the ball the most he seemed just as thrown off as we were about how disrespectful they were as much as you can prepare for Republican you know like like a attacking him like this like it's still seemed very weird and so he even had moments where he stumbled to respond and that's what they want. I would imagine like going for the emotion and the sound bites yeah for sure and <hes> something else I walked away with today is that there is evidence of a broader conspiracy between trump and Russia just not enough to convict so I thought that that was a really important point. I think that everything that they laid out laid out in the Intel Committee <hes> very much better <hes> situation and and I think they reverse them. I think the Intel should have been I and that obstruction should have been second talk about the crimes and then talk about the obstruction of the crimes because that's how muller laid it out in his report. I'm not sure why they did it the opposite way <hes> but whatever I'm GonNa to put that as a negative yes I mean I guess it wasn't explicitly laid out of there are only supposed to talk about you know volume one in one committee invited to in the next there was kind of questions that were crossing over between both so maybe they just didn't think about it like that. They were a little but those three people who have seen the fully unredacted Muller Report <hes> that go on both <hes> are not supposed to mix business with pleasure and they're not smack mix obstruction with counterintelligence or which one business which is business time yeah and they did mix in match and they did talk about obstruction the until committee and some did talk about Russia in the Judiciary Committee but their game plan seemed to be to keep them as separate as possible. I felt like they should have reversed out so that's like a half a negative but the evidence that there was a broader conspiracy between them <hes> because multiple congressional representatives spent a lot of time ensuring that collusion was not something that Muller investigated <hes> and then and that was another thing Doug Collins did that no one corrected him on he kept asking he's like but right here in your report you say that collusion conspiracy or colloquially to same thing <hes> or almost colloquial the same co colloquially the same thing over and over again and Muller's like you're taking that way out of context that's at the end of a sentence where I save for like nine times why we aren't going to use the word collusion that collusion has nothing to do with the law except in very explicit and few anti-trust cases and and no one counteracted that next dem just went on and <hes> colloquial to understand and that's his utilization nation of that word right there is a doctoral level utilization of the word colloquial because when you're writing a doctoral dissertation <hes> and they don't do this I think in Master's theses they might now but you're not supposed to use colloquial terms because they are non definitive and their wishy wishy washy an ambiguous and and they mean different things to different people and different groups for different reasons and that's what the colloquial apartment but he would just slide it in there hoping that trump supporters didn't know and I don't think a lot of people understand that utilization colloquial in that particular legal document and slid it right past him and Muller was like yeah they're the same you know and then we have the sound bite of Muller saying that collusion and conspiracy or the same thing when they're not they are colloquially really you know and it's just those tricks that somebody should have been able to follow up on it. I think an extra prosecutor would have been able to do that. Definitely Muller clarified that a person does not need to successfully obstruct justice to be guilty of of obstruction of justice. I thought that was big and makes complete sense. That's why attempted murder charge exactly. It's a little bit different because attempted. Murder is a different charge for murder so we don't have attempted obstruction and obstruction obstruction. He's like I mean just the analogy of trying to do something and being unsuccessful. I got that yeah but I don't have to successfully stop of the investigation in order to obstruct it or two attempt to obstruct it. That's what obstruction of justice is otherwise. We would never have to go to trial or anything because there would be if every investigation was successfully obstructed you wouldn't end up in court so as trump's perfect world that is blue collar white collar America right now that is maybe you can't obstruct two investigations and white collar America changed for a second for one of the underlying no fair state exactly yeah so I just thought that was really important and and wonderful that it got on the record clearly because trump has been saying. I couldn't obstruct justice because did I fire Mueller was Miller fired was did was your obstruct was your investigation impeded <hes> like you know by by my obstructive. <unk> acts no because Don mcgann Lindau ski in sessions. We're like we're not fucking doing that. Shit and Don mcgann actually threatened to resign and like all these different things happen. We'll get into like this. Those very specifics of the report on in our other show muller she wrote on Thursday Nights. We do a deep dive into the report and we're just starting volume two this week so check that out <hes> but yeah. I thought that that was a really important point that they got through <hes> also Russians attacked our elections in a sweeping and systematic fashion in the trump campaign gleefully welcomed it <hes>. I think that it was that was established today and I don't know a lot of Americans knew that oddly <hes> but it is true and I think that that was well established and not only that but in a hearing this week director of the F._B._i.. Chris Wray said Russia it was still a threat any also admitted that he hadn't read the full Muller Report <hes> and <hes> Muller revealed in the Line of questioning from <hes> Krisha three that the F. B. is currently investigating trump associates vulnerable to Russian blackmail interesting. That's another big headline that came out of this too. Where was the Intel? We found the Intel investigation happening. It's going on right now. Nice Miller also said that <hes> Russia's hacking or trying to interfere as we sit here you're like those were his words and that was really powerful Yep and he also said that not not nearly enough is being done about it yeah. I think it'd be a good idea to go back and rewatch. The seven hours is basically honestly phony yeah and <hes> Oh really examine every time he spoke more words than a sentence right 'cause that's that's when he was probably saying something. Important definitely expanded yeah. He said wikileaks trump's support of wikileaks <hes> to say it's problematic would be understatement. Yes another interesting stuff like that was a really good point that he drove home. <hes> so our final tally of pros and cons is we have four negative things which were that he waited to subpoena or he didn't subpoena trump <hes> his facilities might not have been all there whether it was because he was nervous or for whatever reason <hes> that <hes> the five minute rule instead of two prosecutors I thought would have been better than the fact that they put <hes> obstruction at the beginning of the day instead of at the end of the day but we have seven <hes> great things that came out of it so it's overall the pros get in a win yeah and just a couple last minute things that we can probably just <hes> go through here there. He was asked why miffed sued wasn't charged <hes> because there's some big spy gate deep state thing Mifsud works for Muller or something dumb like that works in a pizza basement and <hes> but Muller said himself that the text messages and communications that Popadopoulos lied to him about made it impossible for him him to corroborate Mifsud lies that could be reason he wasn't charged that lack of evidence also if he's a spy will he is a spy for the Russian government and more is not going to touch that shit in public testimony. He's not gonNA talk about counterintelligence. He's not going to interfere with those investigations. And those folks may be rolled. We don't even know it. I mean maybe Mifsud isn't missing. Maybe he's under arrest we he's not GonNa talk about Mifsud and it's not because they sent him out to entrap Popadopoulos of all stupid people like got a plan. We're going to frame oh Jay Wright this the dumbest thing that you could ever think of idiotic so that's that's I think what's going on with Mifsud and why he wouldn't touch it. He's a spy a Russian spy. Oh yeah clearly yeah. There's there's also this is a nice segue into the sad topic of conspiracy theories that were currently being peddled out today right by Nunez especially and <hes> like saying that what really needs to be investigated is the Russians ties to Democrats. He <unk> said in his opening statement. Wow how frigging nuts is that that in the number to the conspiracy theory essentially that Mifsud like you said is somehow more of a Western intelligence asset than he is for for other governments in and oligarchs it could be a triple agent. He could be doing everything but they're trying to now. Flip this. I was talking to my therapist today about this because obviously shits fucked up and you're mad and she was like this this truly so she's amazing 'cause she comes from Colt recovery so she uses a co two thousand six years and she got out of it now that's what she does and she helps people transition out of colts and cody China <hes> mostly the sad the white kid that headed to good. I'm devastated by real world problems just kidding everyone's got shit but but she was saying this reminds me of a Colt because it's basically to get to get out of it is it's so much they take everything that they're gaining accused of and offensively in your face flip it one eighty and put it back on you and that's part that goes into gas lighting that goes into just distraction. It's all it's all a tactic. It is truly the one hundred eighty degree flip of what we're saying to the president right now. If you leave the trump called who's going to welcome you in you know with open arms arms really repenting. I do want to say that if I mean if you're coming out and saying you know what I'm not a racist and I'm not okay with this raping stuff and I just I can't and I was like afraid to leave before because that treatment everything I thought was wrong and that's just a hard position to put yourself in. It's a very brave thing to do to be able to admit that what you thought so strongly was incorrect <hes> but if you if you I'm open arms if you if you're like I can't stand this racism and Misogyny and autocracy movement toward <hes> territory and I mean you don't have to use those exact words but you know what I mean like. I'm super sorry I'm not like this and I just I was just so hard for me to and then at some point. When is it too late you know like when have you <hes> rams eat it when you're when you're just like I'm just reek from where he's like? It's too late to turn back now. I'm just an Asshole to gay question. I personally think it's never too late but it's a very blanket statement who you I mean these people are doing a lot of damage so it depends yeah yeah. He burned two of the stark children which ended up not being them but his in his mind he did or he knew he didn't in any way too. Many people hated him and he did too many horrible things. It's too late to <hes> repent. I am now past the tipping point and fall on Asshole and you know it's just hard to get out of you know yeah yeah good point. Joe Walsh is twitter life. Though don't you live that life ever ever ever loves his she'll get Justin Amal. She's famous now. Yes of Joe Walsh's tweets right now. It's weird yes yeah even Gra Geraldo Rivera came out the other day and said this racist stuff against these four women is too far bridge too far right. Who the fuck are you Joe Scarborough to for Morning Joe? He said God. Please forgive me forever being a Republican and <hes> so if you if you're out there <hes> email US hello more. She wrote anonymously. If you want anything you need to say I don't know if anyone who would you're listening to this confessional former Republicans. Bring it bring it in. We'll hug it out <hes> yeah. I'm sure you're a great person down. You know sometimes we get caught up. Think of all the girls I've dated in my life. You know I had to get out of that. It doesn't make me an asshole you into thinking gaslight you yeah into thinking that you know you're very well. intentioned soul right <hes> should be propagating these things that wind up hurting people totally eh absolutely and some of their intention and they just suck vitamins ever just I agree. They're going to be the fine print at the product cannot salvage everyone so Pelosi came out and did little press conference after and she got real loosey Goosey on impeachment she started talking about how <hes> because before she would just say no. It's not it's on the table but I'm not talking about now. I just want to have a strong case end of story today. She explained leaned what she needs for a strong case and why she needs it. She said well right now. We've got you know four committees six in total before they're really going after all these investigations with <hes> you know going hard at all these investigations instigations with the President and Their Foundation Victory Fund and the organisation N._R._A.. All that stuff trump's taxes etc and they're already into the court most of them they have already some of them. Got Have Gone to the courts already and I want to wait to see what they come out with and then I know Jerry Nadler got up and said in the next day or two he's going to petition a court to get the grand jury materials and he's what you could do easier if there was an open impeachment inquiry <hes> but I think he should be able to get them anyway anyway. <hes> and he's going to try to get the court to order Don mcgann to testify and I think once they have mcgann's what Pelosi was sort of indicating but didn't say outright is once they have the mcgann testimony and a couple of other testimonies that they they want like maybe alluring douse gear whatever once they have the grand jury material that would be a solid case for her and at that point should be able to make the decision and she actually said and I hear from a lot of people saying impeachment is stupid because it'll never get through the Senate on it and we've always said hold the Senate accountable for not impeaching him impeach him and let them say no and Pelosi said that today she goes after we get all this all this evidence and build this case and if we impeach him and the Senate says no go ahead and let them try but that that is why I need to have the solid case now we all sit at the sitting at this table that you could more quickly build that solid case if you had an impeachment inquiry going but her argument is it's already through multiple committees and if you opened impeachment inquiry it would it would consolidate all the investigations into the Judiciary Committee and they don't want those other committees. Don't want to let go of this and I don't know if that's a rule he knows why won't they let it go as a pride or is it because they believe they can do with the best I think it's because they're already halfway through it but can they just passing information to the Judiciary Committee and let that just continue for the sake of you might have to refile the cases because you have different plaintiff okay that makes more central yeah. I Really WanNa find out what the rules are the glory because there might it might just be literally the paperwork could take longer than the investigations themselves and then we would be pushing it out further by opening an impeachment inquiry. I really honestly don't know but I hope she has a plan <hes> and she revealed a little bit more of it today. uh-huh that's progress clan when we're con to list it's a one of the it's more of a joke but <hes> one one of the House Democratic Reps in the Judiciary Committee calling mcgann McCain the whole time that's right Donald C sitting around to psych. That's brilliant. Yes very relevant yeah over and over and over again I was like dude. We need to sound like we know what we're talking right some sky but like in the weirdest way I've ever heard did but that almost sounded more right hard to begin with. Let's kick me a moment to know who he was referring to yeah yeah yeah but definitely sounded cool she. WanNa early on to. I can't remember her name. I understand grammar. Shaming is wonderful. She was just a little great like shaming. If it's wrong I mean we started out called him Mueller so that's true that's true but at this point come on this logs Omar Yeah and Rachel Maddow said Epstein Epstein. Actually I figure says Epstein I was going to say and I started to see Epstein so I'm like which one is it. At least the letters are there you go okay letters and I'm going off of photo of Epstein Stein from the Eighties where he's teaching school and he's written his name on the board and he spelled it E. P. S. T. I n.. E. And right that was to get people to say right yeah. I'm unless he can't spell his own fucking name. It's one of those things and then also I mean aside images being annoying to like hear someone saying the wrong name over and over again which is just more a measure my own intolerance in auditory. Let's very but it's also like these are legal documents and this is going into a record and considering so many of these people will pick as many words as they can. I just don't have any possible reason for them to give you don't give them a reason. <hes> another thing Pelosi that here's the quote from Pelosi about the Senate she says <hes> the the stronger our case the worse the Senate will look for letting him off the hook. I agree with that <hes> and then she also said look but if this cone of silence she kept calling it the stonewalling of the White House if it continues to happen if it keeps happening happening it could compel us to go forward with impeachment so now she's not saying. I'm not talking about right now. She's saying here's my plan. We'll see if it happens. We need a strong case and things could compel us towards impeachment so it's it's more of a possibility. It seems than it was before I mean it's always been the same name but we just didn't know about it. <hes> and I think that's all I've got except for <hes> molar there was one of the surprising thing Muller when he today when he called some of the trump aids outright liars and that they did impede his investigation and that was during demings <hes> questioning about whether or not trump lied in his answers so she goes through not only are you saying was he inaccurate and <hes> you know not cooperative in his answers but that also he was <hes> lying and he's a generally he was also under oath yeah he said Melissa under oath trump was under oath when he was answering those written questions and then of course the question comes up. We'll if trump lied in his written answers answers. Why isn't that an obstruction of justice charge because Clinton was charged with lying <hes> about you know I didn't have sexual relations with that woman but the double standard is so much deeper than that too? It's like well we also had different. <hes> office legal counsel a special counsel regulations <hes> and I think I think Clinton lied to Congress so here's what I think we need to. I think we need to have congress. We we need to get all this courtship done fast. Hopefully it'll be done by the time they get back from break. Then we need to <hes> open up an impeachment <hes> when we have all this evidence and part of that impeachment investigation is for the Congress to subpoena trump and then force that through the courts and see how it goes all all right yeah and that's a criminal lake if they if he's not gonNA show up basically right or like anticipation but when he refuses will that be a criminal court compels them to if you defies the Supreme Court order. I don't think the Republicans in the Senate will be able to do not remove and convict him okay. I personally think that will be so close to the election. I prefer that we vote them out because if we don't and we remove him and pence gets in penske pardon everybody that's so true so I'm like it's a matter of a couple of months. I'd rather watch him be voted out and then Oh. Let's wall what Pelosi's thinking about because she's an law nine percent yes. They're saying it's going to hurt us. In twenty twenty two bad wouldn't that affect her job specifically though if pence has promoted when that she's saying that this is her last cycle okay right. She said that's what she said Yeah. He said after the nicest way to say that so she said that's what she's done. That's what she when she took over the job she was because she knows that I think she made a deal with the the incoming freshmen are super wonderful diverse incoming freshmen saying I know you guys don't want to vote for me for speaker of the House. I know that we have a lot of problems but I I'll tell you what let me do this. While homestretch trump is president so I 'cause can I can whip everybody and also and then I promise I will step down as speaker after that yeah I agree with that. I stand by her. I think she's played it right. Yeah I think so I would have opened impeachment little same but I do appreciate the institutional knowledge and she's like one of the best whips the houses or best voter collector because she's not she's not like wait right yeah. is she the widow she's not that's that's what I was GONNA say. She has but she she's a with. She does whip yes yes but she's not urban at title okay. That's a different different job. God Schoolhouse Rock Person Sole Job is just to make sure everyone's on on same page the only time she's failed that I've ever seen her fail <hes> to get everybody in the you know. caucusing together was during the vote for the aid to the border yeah. That was the only time that the dems were split on anything ever yeah. That was good. I was kind of I was like Oh. Let's not yeah but they did it for the right reasons those that did you know not side with Pelosi. Even though I like closely they always do it for the right reasons but then it's bad for the party drew but it's like what are you gonNa do just like ignore it. They just made it passed anyway. Exactly hotels vote yeah but then if I know but politics doesn't look good politically speaking if you have a split caucus on something that's going to pass anyway. It's bad for the party but yes you have to also represent your constituents. Your constituents don't want you to vote on that. You have to kind of weigh that and you have to be like well. I'm going to yeah yeah. It's not and this is the new way not the old way and I think this is a good example of it's not always about the party. Even though party is important at least they they have these values that go beyond it's so much less important right now with all the shit going on that's fair I think personally and so I think that they should vote how their constituents want them to and they should vote the way that they you know that their conscience yeah guides them because really when somebody's you know when somebody insinuates that all Nancy Pelosi doesn't want to divide the party or divide the country divide the country like fuck you there is no shut up. Just shut up you're not you can't divide this country anymore than it's already divided right now. I think I don't WanNA frigging beetlejuice. That did all right guys well. Thank you so much for listening today. <hes> I really we really appreciate it and we had a really busy hectic but I think very very positive and awesome day and I think we just need to let this kind of settle in a bit. We will see you tomorrow. We'll be back with the regular. There's a lot of news that happened today but we wanted to reserve this for all <hes> talking about the testimony but you guys have any final thoughts <hes>. I'm just excited to see everyone's responses throughout the week by the time that you know the other pot is out but you know on Sunday. It'll be interesting to see like how his settles so yeah. We're just looking forward to that. I think assuming that they talked about the most consequential parts of the report today. Go back to the page numbers and read it for yourself because the Democrats are trying to spoon feed the shit to the citizens. Sorry I say Shit because I have a potty mouth <hes> it was very valuable and you just have to do the work and that's I think also kind of what Muller was saying to. I'm not going to sit here and paraphrase these things that I went through a whole very specific process. That is very legitimate just so I could come here and give you an easy answer that you want to hear because he won't just read the report. Yeah definitely read it. I think most of our listeners have read it <hes> so <hes> thanks again and tune in tomorrow night for the <hes> part ten of the special coverage of the mole report comes out on Thursday so you can find that by going to wherever you get your podcast searching for muller she wrote please subscribe and <hes> we will start. We will kick off <hes> part ten tomorrow with volume to the obstruction so thank you guys so much. Please take care of yourself. Take care of each other I've been A._G.. I've been to this Johnson. I've enjoyed coburn. Them's the beans. The daily beans is produced by A._G.. Featuring Lisa Johnson and Jordan Coburn and engineered and edited by Mackenzie Mozelle and Star Burns industries are marketing manager is thoroughly Steiner and our merchandising manager Sarah Her.

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Bonus: Ari Melber breaks down Mueller's historic testimony with Trump's personal lawyer

The Beat with Ari Melber

19:23 min | 1 year ago

Bonus: Ari Melber breaks down Mueller's historic testimony with Trump's personal lawyer

"Hey everyone listening to the podcast. This is Ari Melbourne and this is our podcast extra after quite a week Bob Muller swearing in and addressing Congress under oath and under subpoena I mentioned in terms of our reporting. I was in the room sitting in the back row with the reporters watching Mr Mueller do his thing it was fascinating and history will long remember what he did. It's not about even the first snap judgment so what you're gonNA hear. Next is some of our deep reporting on that I are breakdown of the crucial moment where we think there was the elements of a potential crime. We're going to walk through that in detail but pretty concisely after that you're GonNa hear my breakdown of several key moments along with someone who's been reporting the story from the inception in two thousand sixteen long before Donald Trump was president. That's David Corn and after that you'll hear my interview with a key insider to this whole probe someone who went toe to toe with Muller. That's trump lawyer J. Secolo well all of that in this special muller addition of our podcast the beat with Melber we now turn to the special report. I've been promising this was a historic hearing today and there were big issues teed up is president trump's conduct impeachable as we were just discussing say eh was trump wrong to welcome Russia's hacking yes. He testified was unpatriotic but is there evidence that trump committed obstruction of justice that is actually one of the most fascinating important exchanges occurred and I want you to see it in context this was under questioning by Democratic Congressman Jeffries and maybe it's not a coincidence that this is the topic we're Muller's very careful very loyally confirming troubling evidence against trump and saying the jeffries may be in the ballpark while stressing he won't co-sign the whole analysis Ossis. I don't subscribe necessarily to your way you analyze that I'm not seeing the ballpark. I'm not supportive of that analytical charge what got me speaking so carefully a damning coming section of the mold reporting off one of those counterproductive tweets donald trump ever said admitting he was under criminal investigation so now let's look at this morning's exchange in the news at the time President Trump tweeted on on June sixteenth two thousand seventeen quote. I am being investigated for firing the F._B._i.. Director by the man who told me to fire the F._B._i.. Director witch-hunt President of the United States now confirming include under investigation along with his son-in-law constitutes a public acknowledgment by president trump that he was under criminal investigation correct. I think generally correct muller confirms firms that trump was tweeting scared and was upset about the investigation which can make trump look guilty because it speaks to his motives when he tried to get motor fired which happened the very next day after the tweet Jeffries Ass Muller about that which was huge news when that broke on Saturday June seventeenth president trump called White House counsel Don mcgann at home and directed him to fire the special counsel true another damaging report linked to the Russia probe that Mr Trump gave an explicit order to have special counsel Robert Muller fired just a month after he was appointed. I believe to be true that was big trump's sprinting towards the kind of Saturday night massacre that led to the end of the Nixon presidency now today molar says under oath what is report documented ended the trump did try to take that potentially illegal act something trump would then reportedly tried to do even more than once and today Muller spoke to the checklist required to prove whether there is a crime of obstruction you have to say well is there a probe to obstruct in the first place. Check is there an obstructive act check and then the hardest to prove was their criminal intent in taking that act goes to that last box to check criminal intent showing the not only someone tried to obstruct but why something we've been discussing in our coverage tonight and this is when Jeffries highlights an important part of the Mola report there's no Watergate taping system but muller came somewhat close going into the inner sanctum the Oval Office trump saying when he learned to the special counsels appointment. Oh my God this is terrible. It's the end of my presidency. I'm EFT suggestion is that maybe his motive wasn't mellor's alleged conflicts but stopping the whole WPRO was a substantive moment by the time you had those different boxes checked. If Congress accepts representative Jeffries logic it would find the elements of this alleged crime and that's why I want you to see. See something one of the most iconic moments one day may not be an individual soundbite but this news photograph capturing each of those check boxes on obstruction regarding the effort to fire Muller with the committee's legal analysis right inside the room. You'll notice those check boxes are in Sharp Focus Muller position the way he actually prefers out of focus and ultimately you're looking at a snap portrait in the spirit of Muller because it focuses on the evidence that was uncovered leaves Muller and his investigators where he thinks they belong out of focus. Let's remember Muller's already said the evidence should speak for itself a classic maximum in law while hearing always is going to have these reactions to the witness and how he sounded for one moment tonight before I bring in another special guest it is worth reflecting on this substance from today when he subject of an investigation obstructs that investigation or lies to investigators it strikes at the core of the government's effort to find the truth and hold wrongdoers accountable now work speaks for itself and the report is my testimony. I'm back with mother Jones David Corn to dig into this day but I was sitting in the back of that hearing room at times it was slow and at times it was complex which means it's actually worth pulling out some of the big moments. Take take a look at this one with Congressman Jeffries. The crime of of justice has three elements true. Your investigation found evidence that president trump took steps to terminate the special counsel correct correct investigation found substantial evidence that when the president ordered Don mcgann to fire the special counsel and then lie about it Donald Trump one committed in obstructive AC two connected to an official preceding three did so with corrupt intent those are the elements of obstruction of justice is the onto something there well he is he was reciting from Muller Zone the report which gave us about ten instances of varying degrees of possible charges of obstruction of justice some were stronger. There are different elements as Hakeem Jeffries just went through and he picked one that really was like three for three right. There are several of those in the report and the lead to the questionable. Why didn't you indict and we know why because just as firm and said I couldn't but any definition that a prosecutor would use that's an indictable crime line that the person should be charged with <hes> then you have the fact that under the law it is legal to lie to most people yes you can lie to your friends? You can lie to you know you could lie to the ice cream counter person you lied to your Barista. It is illegal to lie to the government. which is why this moment stood out in fact there? Were many questions that you ask the president. Nettie simply didn't answer isn't that correct true and there were many answers that contradicted other evidence you had gathered during the investigation. Is that correct director Muller. Could you say direct Morello that the president was credible can't answer that question to write them early. Isn't it fair to say that the president has written answers not only inadequate and incomplete disaster show that he wasn't always being truthful. I would say generally David here. You have a Republican Republican former F._B._I.. Director saying that generally the President United States is not truthful is not credible and has any republican any elected Republican Republican leader said anything about that well the answer is no we have the Washington Post with over ten thousand documented cases of the president either lying and making a false statement. It just seems that on this particular issue the coat of trump has just turned up the hands and say we don't care but that is the type of thing that if perhaps presented <hes> appropriately with maybe a little bit of pizzazz is something that might resonate with voters out there who don't watch cable news every day but that and then you have what you just alluded to earlier on whether you can indict a president after they leave office take a look. Could you charge the president with a Trimbe after he left office yes you. You believe that he committed you could charge the president states with obstruction of justice after he left office. Yes no one's ever heard Bob Muller say that under oath in public at the conclusion of investigating Donald Trump with a report Hort sitting there that talks about conserving and preserving evidence for later potential prosecution that's pretty newsworthy and so we want to add to it with our own reporting here at the beat because on Muller night we had the president's lawyer Jaysekulow Secolo on I asked him directly about that. Take a look at his response with regard to future prosecutions. Let's not forget that the Department of Justice concluded. There was no obstructive intent so I don't buy any of that. I'm not concerned about that. I think this was a very very good. This was the democratic parties best case to put forward today. As many of your friends have said they did not move the needle. This was a good day for the president. What do you think of his answer? Well you know what the Noble laureate Bob Dylan said right right the the pump don't work because the vandals took the handle and we don't have a Justice Department that I think is an affair arbiter. We you know we can go on and on about bill bars letters others and pronouncements in which mischaracterized and miss contextualized Mos- report. It's too bad there was such a long time. Frame seems long between one that happened when Mullah got to speak for his own report as he did yesterday and what is a trump laurie gonna say but we don't care. We don't care we don't care. I mean the report. Is You know you've had many lawyers on the show said again and again again. This is unprecedented to produce this much evidence that it gets to the issue of the president committing a crime but also to the bigger issue that molar spoke to unfortunately in the afternoon after much of the day was set in stone in which he talked which Adam Schiff got him to talk about and shifts word word trump's disloyalty to the country how he went along and encouraged and benefited from an attack on the United States from afar an adversary that that's what we really should search still we talking about but it's hard to do that in a political context text when trump and the Republicans keep guests lighting the world and the nation by saying none of that stuff happened it doesn't matter and the real issue is why the F._B._I.. Began an investigation you brought up Dylan. You know what Dylan applies to the beginning of that Mullah Hairy you tell me one more cup of coffee before I go to the valley below to the valley below because it seemed like as the hours went on Muller Molar either got caffeinated or got warmed up like anyone sometimes you need a little time and you need an extra cup well you. He also could have sung this is the story of crossfire hurricane. Wow how hurricane though being a great dylan song about a false accusation. I don't think you would associate hurricane other than that. Pun that incredible Pun with Donald Trump. Why would say that what the Republicans are trying to do is to prevent justice from being done and that wasn't a dad joke? That was just you bring it home bringing it back home Dylan would say I guess stop. I know some guy could feel. I can't hear it but I can feel a thousand remotes changing channels. I love you WanNa do that. No no I love you David. I love you references and I love your longtime to this story. Our viewers will remember number. You were on this case during twenty six senior reporting things our people said is this even important. Is this real. You're ahead of this story. Which is why would come back to you? What a story? It's bad yeah and it shouldn't it was still there's still a lot here that the public needs to process David Core thank you now. I turned to as promised a special guests on this historic day. When a former special counsel testifies about a pro of the sitting president very newsworthy guest is the current council for that president? J Secolo represented president trump in the Miller WPRO hi Jay. Thanks for doing this sure my pleasure <hes> let's begin with something very relevant to your client. Here is muller fact checking trump. Today there was no collusion with Russia. There was no obstruction and none whatsoever and it was a complete and total exoneration. Did you actually totally exonerate the president no J. will you and the president. It now acknowledge Muller did not conclude a total exoneration. No I'm not going to acknowledge that because I've said on your program before and others that this exoneration standard is absurd. Prosecutors do not exonerate they determine whether there's culpability we move forward or not and what it Bob Mueller say today when he had a correct his testimony on the issue of the L._l._C. Opinion Congressman Lewis asked him earlier disarray committee hearing hey but for the oil see opinion what would have you gone with an indictment and he came back and said no that wasn't correct because we never made a legal determination on criminal culpability now. Here's what did happen. They did not make a determination that became clear and then it ultimately went to the Department of Justice the Department the Justice inside the Attorney General Deputy Attorney General and the Office of Legal Counsel Reviewed Bob Mothers Evidence through the Lens of Bob Muller and concluded there was no obstructive intent. That's true that bar did that but the president said Muller's report was a total exoneration honoration and Muller Today said under oath that's not true. You're not suggesting was lying today are you. I'm telling you what I'm thinking. I think Bob Muller has inflated and does not understand the burden of proof and you're a good lawyer Ari. You doesn't understand the league proof. He okay want to keep moving. That's really really quickly. Here's the issue you and I both know that the term exoneration is not a legal term of art that in a case any case we're there's criminal matter a prosecutor either moves forward the prosecution or declines and this in a sense became a declaration and certainly became a declaration with went to the Department of Justice but at your program your question I appreciate we WanNa get jargon -I it certainly in ways looked like a declaration with the president claimed it with a toll exoneration putting words in motors mouth. Today is the first time Americans have heard Muller under oath say the president was wrong about that so I wanted to response that let me also show you something. That's even I think more concerned for your client. You obviously never want to be in a situation Ryan. Where a prosecutor former prosecutor suggesting your client committed perjury? Take a look at this today tomorrow. Isn't it fair to say that the president's rate Nassar's were not only inadequate and incomplete asser show that he wasn't always being truthful Rufo. I would say generally generally untruthful. What's your response to molar suggesting that there may have been untrue statements made by the president has the potential violation of federal law aw well? There's only two groups that know what the correspondence was between the office of special counsel and the President's where my team on this and I will tell you this. The phrase untruthful never came up in that correspondence. I want to be very clear on so their issue I think again I'm not I'm not trying to say anything negative about Bob's performance today but I think that whole respond kind generally in the delay well because I think look look you said today earlier. You said it was not a good day. I heard you this morning after Judiciary Committee meeting so I think that's a consensus with everyone. Why wasn't a good day? has they say J. as they say this is. This is why you watch. I'm glad you're watching. I did call like I saw on on some of the issues in the hearing I think Bob Muller for my viewers understand is a season prosecutor who understand what burden of proof is the other thing that was really striking and I WANNA make sure to get you on the record on this was muller discussing the potential prosecution of ex-president. Take a look knowingly accepting foreign assistance during the presidential campaign is unethical thing to do at a crime we can agree that it's also unpatriotic crew boy. I love reading those wikileaks. Donald trump in any of those quotes disturb you problematic understatement. Could you charge the president with a after he left office. Yes you believe that he committed you. You could charge the president United States with obstruction of justice after he left office. Yes you get the final word on the tonight your view of Mr Muller using his testimony to say your client acted unpatriotic -ly and leaving leaving the door open to a potential prosecution of an exercise it look the unpatriotic comment. I thought was gratuitous an unnecessary with regard to future prosecutions. Let's not forget that the Department of Justice concluded. There was no obstructive intent so I don't buy any of that. I'm not concerned about that. I think this was a very good. This was the democratic parties best-case put forward today as many of your friends have said they did not move the needle. This was a good day for the president. Thanks for having me are always have spoken to the president about this today I.

president Donald Trump Bob Muller trump Robert Muller Muller Department of Justice special counsel Congressman Jeffries Jones David Corn prosecutor Sharp Focus Muller Muller Molar Director Bob Dylan Muller Zone Jaysekulow Secolo Russia Bob Mueller
The most difficult job Robert Mueller ever had

Retropod

06:11 min | 1 year ago

The most difficult job Robert Mueller ever had

"Hey history lovers. I'm Mike Rosen walled with retro pod. A show about the past rediscovered. Robert muller. Now, there's a mean you've probably been hearing a lot of special counsel. Robert Muller is a mystery man, perhaps the most private public figure in Washington to Justice department appointing former FBI director Robert Muller's, a special council to oversee their investigation into cost coordination between Russia and the Trump campaign. Washington is bracing for the release of special counsel Robert Muller's report on the Russia investigation. As lives in public service. Go Muller's has been what's the right word. Well, stressful during a four decade career in law enforcement Muller served in many key posts, including FBI director in the aftermath of the September eleventh terrorist attacks, and of course, he just served as special counsel investigating Russian interference in the two thousand sixteen election, one of the most high profile investigations in US history. Stressful right. Well, I think one of the things that's really important to think about and understand in how he has approached being special counsel is that from Muller's perspective. Probably this is no more than the third. Hardest job. He's ever had. That's Garrett Graff the author of two books about Muller, including a new script original e book called Muller's war. If the aftermath of nine eleven and investigating president were tough graph says those jobs weren't nearly as difficult or is life changing as Muller's adventures in the jungles of Vietnam following his graduation from Princeton University. He was a marine. Lieutenant Robert swan Muller third. Muller doesn't speak that much about the war. But he did in two thousand thirteen during a commencement address. William and Mary college as an undergraduate I had one of the finest role models. I could have asked for and an upper class woman by the name of David Hackett. He was on our nineteen sixty five lacrosse team. He was not necessarily the best on the team. But he was determined and a natural leader as Muller was preparing to graduate. He and his friends faced as he put it a decision about how they would respond to the war. We knew that David was in Vietnam serving as a platoon commander in the Marine Corps. And the spring of sixty seven he Bala cheered for a second tour of duty on April twenty ninth as he led his men against north yet to meet army contingent David was killed by a sniper's bullet, just south of the DMZ. The death of Hackett a popular role model to Muller and many other Princeton students did not make Muller angry about the war, nor did it make him or his friends want to avoid it. Muller? Did what he saw is the honorable thing. He enlisted to serve his country the war that he joined in nineteen sixty eight was very different than the one that he had enlisted in in nineteen sixty six thousand nine hundred sixty seven this was after the Ted offensive. This was at the height of the combat operations and Muller found himself plunged into some of the most severe and fierce fighting that the US ever faced in Vietnam. It wasn't long before Muller found himself leading platoon of men in brutal combat atop a hill called mutters rich a battle for which he'd be awarded. The bronze star for valor. His unit was rushed in to help rescue in ambushed platoon as they faced more than two hundred North Vietnamese army regulars and Muller's unit took withering fire atop. Mutters ridge. They lost several members of their platoon to fatally and Muller led his platoon to defend the hill for the better part of eight hours, and ultimately rescued two marines who had been wounded and brought them back to US lines Muller wanted to continue in the marines after the war, but his wife was opposed to that idea. He went to law school in then into law enforcement in interviewing those who serve with an under Lieutenant Muller. Graph says he heard the same assessment repeatedly. He was seen as a great leader and performed Horo. Ick literally under fire in Vietnam quiet, yet fiercely determined Muller never wanted to be the center of attention. In fact, some of the former marines who graph interviewed did not know what? Became of. He was just there. Lieutenant now he'll almost undoubtedly be remembered for decades to come as an important figure in American history. And if our current political climate endures he'll be remembered as a hero to some in enemy to others and the incoming fire for Lieutenant Muller. It never really ended as he says, no one knows how they will react to being under fire until they're under fire. I'm Mike Rosen walled. Thanks for listening for more forgotten stories from history. Visit Washington Post dot com slash retro pot.

Lieutenant Muller Robert swan Muller Muller Vietnam Mike Rosen David Hackett US Garrett Graff Washington FBI Washington Mutters ridge Russia Princeton University director army Justice department William Bala
Shorts: Four Principles for Reading the Mueller Report

The Lawfare Podcast

13:29 min | 1 year ago

Shorts: Four Principles for Reading the Mueller Report

"I'm Susan Hennessy. This is the law podcast. She watch this afternoon. I along with my colleagues. Michaela Fogel, Quinta Jurassic and Benjamin Witter's published four principles for reading the Muller report. It seems to be real this time if perhaps a bit late for the prediction by by former presidential lawyer tie Cobb in the summer of two thousand seventeen that Robert Muller's investigation would be over by thanksgiving of that year while Cobb was off by more than a year and a half. There are now clear signs at the special counsel's office really is close to concluding its work deputy attorney general rod Rosenstein has said a departure date of mid March after report surface that he would leave the Justice department only after Muller Muller finished, the probe as of February. Twentieth. CNN has reported that attorney general Bill bar may announce as early as next week that Muller has completed his investigation and that Barr plans to shortly thereafter, send confidential summary of the report to congress NBC's. Pete Williams likewise announced that a report from the special counsel's office may head to the Justice department as early as next week. And the Washington Post reported that the Justice department is preparing for Muller issue. A confidential report and the Trump administration officials are. -cerned that the report will contain information that is quote, politically damaging unquote, but fall short of alleging criminal conduct of course, no one outside the department of Justice knows for certain precisely when the investigation will conclude, but perhaps more importantly, no one outside. The department of Justice knows what the report will contain. No, one knows whom it will vindicate. No one knows whether it will conclude the President Trump was Russian agent or whether it will to quote, Trump himself, quote, totally clear the president, and quote, or whether it will find that he obstructed Justice or abused power or acted wholly within his legitimate article two powers, nobody knows whether it will describe conduct far worse than that. Which was so far come to light or whether it will debunk allegations that have unfairly haunted. The president all of which makes the present a good moment to articulate some principles for how folks should read the Muller findings when they do a March because the nation still remains behind what the philosopher John Rawls described as the. Availability. Terrence it is an excellent time to set some ground rules regarding how people should engage this material, regardless of their political affiliations or views of the Russia scandal and rouses theory, people should craft rules for how to fairly set up a society behind the veil when they don't know what societal advantages or disadvantages. They'll have under those rules when the veil is lifted a couple of caveats at the outset we assume here for purposes of argument that the mullahs report will be factually rich that it will both lay out detailed factual findings and analyze those factual findings under applicable law. That point we emphasize is actually no certainty the regulation under which Muller is operating. Does not say much about what sort of report he needs to file a several articles on law. Fair have noted the following analysis. Does not apply. If Muller's report is more skeletal and does not show its work. Moreover, the following assumes that the mother report actually becomes avai. Available in substantial part, and that people are thus able to assess it if the public or congress receives only a summary of mothers findings written by a different department of Justice official or by attorney general William bar that would raise an additional set of questions about how one should read the summary. But assuming the report gives a full accounting of the conduct at issue in the investigation, and assuming we actually get to see the material at issue the falling four principles towards reading it fairly offered without knowing whose political views the application of those principles will help or hurt. I in the absence of some glaring or obvious reason to reject them people should be prepared to accept Muller's prosecutorial judgments Muller and his team are not thirteen angry Democrats today, and they will not be thirteen corrupt Republicans tomorrow, they are professionals who have had access to the best factual record. Anyone is likely to see the determination of whether to charge or not to charge. A given person is an informed professional judgment entitled to the presumption of regularity. The indictments that the special counsel has brought to date or all cases in which other reasonable. Prosecutors. In mother shoes would have likewise pursued charges to the extent. The cases have been litigated Muller has prevailed. There is no indication that he is brought cases that were not substantially merited. That means if Muller declines prosecution as it relates to other prudential potential defendants onlooker should presume that those decisions also reflect responsible prosecutorial judgments declarations in a politically sensitive matter of this type may happen for a variety of reasons. The facts may not be adequate to support a given prosecution particularly with respect to the president. There are major legal impediments to prosecution both with respect to the application of specific statutes to the exercise of article two powers and with respect to the threshold question. Of whether the president is amenable to indictment while he remains an office at all, they're also prudential factors that may council against bringing a given case, for example, a witness who has some exposure to possible prosecution may provide essential cooperation and prosecutors may as a consequence for go charges all of these doctors are legitimate and people should be prepared to accept the legitimacy of outcomes that don't involve prosecutions. Second people should also accept the factual record as described in the report in the absence of specific reason to doubt, it this does not mean that Muller is some kind of deity whose word on factual matters is infallible. It is however a recognition that Muller has had the benefit of an elite staff of lawyers and investigators who've had access to an array of witnesses and documents and intelligence available to nobody else. This means quite simply that he knows more than everyone else does and is thus in a position to change the working factual record dramatically, whereas onlookers can only argue about the existing record. Or in the case of investigative reporters are congressional committees in shit forward at the margins as a consequence of this reality. If Muller concludes based on the evidence that he has collected that meeting took place, the working presumptions should be that the meeting took place if he says to individuals communicated with one another on a particular subject on a particular day. Let's take that as presumptively true. Unless and until it is rebutted this principle gets slightly trickier for stories that Muller is effectively debunking his report after all is very unlikely to offer conclusions in the negative. For example. The mother report likely will not say that Michael Cohen never traveled to Prague, but might conclude instead that the investigation had not turned up any evidence that Cohen had traveled to Prague in such a case, it might be tempting to seize on the distinction and conclude that because Muller didn't say that Cohen didn't travel to Prague the possibility that he did. So is still there resist. This temptation that way lies madness. If a matter has been thoroughly investigated and the special counsel has not found evidence to support an accusation. We should consider the matter closed unless and until new information arises to support it the basic principle in short is that people should take as the factual record though. Those facts the special counsel affirmatively fines and not supplant that record with with facts that they wish she had found only if he specifically leaves the question open as unresolved should it be treated as unresolved. Third and this point significantly qualifies the previous one the report only covers what it covers. There may be many lines of inquiry. The public feels are relevant to the left rue story or to ethical and legal questions about the president and his family more. Generally that are not within the scope of the mullahs report. The report itself will likely address a far narrower set of questions Muller after all has cleared jurisdictional limits. What countless news reports have contended that he is investigating this that or the other the investigation almost surely has behaved in a disciplined fashion that focuses on some things and leaves the rest for other actors. So while the mullahs report can be considered an authoritative record on those questions that it addresses that it does not address some particular issue cannot be taken as evidence that Muller has investigated that issue and found it without merit fourth a decision not to prosecute. Does not necessarily resolve questions of morality ethics or impeach ability. It might of course, if Muller concludes as a factual matter that there was no collusion or that. There was no evidence of any sort of collusion. People should be prepared to consider not merely. The criminal matter closed, but the moral mater closed as well. But conversely, if Muller finds a series of facts and concludes that that those facts either do not amount to a prosecutable crime or that some law bars bringing that case people are free to judge. Those facts fact patterns that Muller may choose not to prosecute or maybe barred from prosecuting may nonetheless warrant, the opprobrium of all decent people. They may warrant impeachment and removal from office the standards of impeachment being quite different from the standards of criminal law. They may warrant civil liability. Consider for example, the matter of obstruction of Justice since the dawn of the obstruction probe the problems of bringing a criminal case against the president have been apparent even without accepting the broad conception of article to authorities William bar advocated. There is no doubt that article two limits to some degree the application of the obstruction statutes to the president. Moreover, indicting the president would independently violate the Justice Department's view of his temporary immunity from criminal process. So nobody should be surprised. If Muller concludes that he cannot bring a criminal case such a finding that no cases plausible. However in no sense answers. The question of whether the president's conduct is acceptable. That is a judgment for other actors the body politic and the congress who gets to take Muller's factual findings and use them in their own assessments, which may legitimately proceed under altogether different standards in many ways. As the question of criminal prosecution is not the most important one before the public. The most important question is the president's fitness for office, both as a political matter that will be for voters once again in less than two years and in the interim as a potential matter of impeachment. These are not questioned the prosecutor should answer nor questions which are prosecutor is even capable of answering. So while people should accept Muller's prosecutorial, judgments, they should not transform declarations into character references or otherwise transformed prosecutorial judgments into political judgments of propriety. Over the past two years, President Trump and some of his allies have carried out a relentless public relations campaign against the Muller investigation calling it quote a witch hunt asserting it's run by angry Democrats, and that it's totally compromised and conflicted. This campaign seems to be aimed at ensuring that there is not a political will to act on the report. If it includes information that damages the president last year, the president's lawyer Rudy Giuliani stated as much saying that the efforts to paint the investigation as a witch hunt were quote for public opinion because eventually the decision here is going to be to impeach or not impeach members of congress, Democrats and Republicans are going to be informed a lot by their constituents. And so our jury as it should be is the American people, and quote, those who have insisted on the necessity and integrity of the investigation need to be careful of falling into a similar trap. If the Muller report. Anti-climactic or does not shed significant additional light on the conduct of the president. And his associates. It is the discipline of actually believing in a political law enforcement that if the report reveals no collusion or no evidence of collusion. Opponents of the president must be prepared to accept that result and not do as the president. And some of his supporters have done impune the integrity of the investigators at the same time. It is critical to remember that Muller is a prosecutor with a limited mandate that means there are a lot of questions. His report will not answer and judgments he will not render these questions his report may well t- up and the judgment will be left to others. The law. Fair podcast is brought to you in cooperation with the Brookings Institution. Please leave us a five star rating and review on the podcast service of your choice. Today's audio engineer for the podcast has been Michaela Fogel as always. Thanks for listening.

Robert Muller president Muller Muller Muller special counsel Justice department President Trump department of Justice prosecutor congress Michaela Fogel mullahs Susan Hennessy CNN Cobb attorney Washington Post Trump administration NBC
Interview with Glenn Kirschner

The Daily Beans

25:40 min | 9 months ago

Interview with Glenn Kirschner

"It's the holiday season and things are sucking. We're all pissed at each other but here comes might Christmas gift to you. The premiere of my I brand new. podcast starring me triumph. The insult comic dog. Yes it's going to be great. Think of it as Joe Rogan not done steroids. It's a live game show called. Let's make it. We're going to have great guests and also Anthony SCARAMUCCI. I'm partnering with my friend. Ended Star Burns audio and also team coco the people who brought you some not greatest shows ever cancelled by and best of all we are according to show live in Brooklyn Union temple so you can attend a taping and see for yourself what podcast magazine calls another fucking talking. Bout guest you'll hear brand new episodes in the New Year and can subscribe right now on apple podcasts. spotify stitcher Google or whatever so that we can count your automatic downloads for weeks after you had quit listening enjoy and since Hello and welcome to the daily beans for Friday December. Twenty seven two thousand nineteen I'm your host. Ag and today we we have MSNBC legal analyst Glenn Kirschner in an interview that aired on July seventh twenty nineteen and we speak with him about his insights into Muller in. This was just ahead out of Muller's public testimony to Congress which took place July twenty fourth. That's just one day before the infamous call between trump Alinsky for which the president has now been impeached when when he withheld aid and dangled a White House meeting in exchange for investigations into his political rival and of course the origins of the two thousand sixteen Russia investigation. So please enjoy this interview interview gun. Kirshner is wonderful with me. TODAY IS MSNBC legal analyst. He spent thirty years as a federal prosecutor with DC US Attorney's office and he spent a lot of time. I am working with Muller so please. Welcome Glen Kirschner Glen. Thanks for coming on muller she wrote. Thanks for having me appreciate it yeah. We're so happy to have you on because we want to get some expert insight Into Muller before his upcoming testimony to the House Judiciary Intelligence Committees. I think it's about ten days from the airing of this episode and Those of us who are keenly familiar with what's in his report and have been following this all along probably aren't going to learn anything new and might be slightly feeling disappointed. Had with his testimony. But that's not really. What makes this appearance so important? Is it no I mean. There's been so much disinformation put into the public square by trump by bar by all of their enablers that I think part of what we're part of the reason Bob Bob Muller's testimony is going to be so important it's it's not only to bring to the public's attention his findings Particularly with respect to the many felony obstruction of justice offenses trump committed. But it's GONNA be hopefully to rebut the epoch. Disinformation nations campaign. That trump and company have been waging against the American people with their with their very effective mantra no obstruction no collusion Aleutian. Hopefully Bob Muller will find some ways and hopefully congress will come up with some pointed precise questions to help Bob Muller find some ways to combat that information campaign. Yeah and that's all. Yeah thanks to Attorney any General William Bar who's Four page quote Unquote Summary of Muller's findings SORTA it totally misled led the public. We saw that woman in the Justin Amash Rally say. Gosh I had no idea there wasn't anything About trump that was negative or there was anything negative in the Miller report about about trump. So it's it's I think that that's kind of why this Testimony is so important and Muller has said that his report is his testimony and and he warned that he won't talk about anything that's not in his report but as you were just indicating do you think if if the questions are asked properly that he might answer some of the critical Outstanding banding questions we have like. was there actually no collusion or no obstruction. Or if president weren't the president. Would he be indicted. I I guess my inclination nation is when Bob Muller says my report is my testimony he means it but you know he is a by the Book Guy Law and order. He's a rule follower. So I actually think what you referenced. A minute ago. When Bill Bar issued his misleading summary of mothers report it really cut against against POB molars grain to issue a written rebuttal of that and say hey look bar you mischaracterized my findings and conclusions and your misleading? The public. CUT It out. That is unlike Bob Muller because he's sort of the king of circumspection but you know he's also a soldier and in the middle. I used to be an army Jag in the eighties. We are taught that you have to number one obey a lawful order but number two you have to disobey unlawful order and sometimes those two things bump up against one another but going back to your question I think if the questions are precise enough then muller will have to answer some things even if they are somewhat outside out of his report so for example one of the questions I would ask him is look Special Counsel Muller you've heard President trump say over and over again your investigation negation found no obstruction. Is that true or false. I think if he's answering even within the four corners of his forty eight four hundred forty eight page report port. The answer is that is false. Our investigation did not find no obstruction. Same question with respect to collusion so I think if crafted properly I hate to say some of this is an exercise in getting some usable soundbites from Bob Muller. But here's here's what I would do if you can get those sound bites where Muller says definitively no we did not find no obstruction. We did not find no collusion. I think it's on the media every time they broadcast trump or bar as they do a thousand times a day saying no obstruction no collusion collusion. They should be obliged to put up immediately after that. That is false. Says Bob Muller so I hate to say it's. It's an exercise in debunking disinformation but because the lies got a several week head start coming out of bars mouth. The truth has forever been playing catch up and has and has not been catching up all that effectively. Yeah totally and and you mention Muller writing that Scathing maybe not scathing to us but scathing to muller that letter to bar about in apparently it was one of a couple of letters he wrote before the before the report was released to Congress in the public How important is it because we read in the threat by Andy? McCabe that when somebody like Muller particularly you know Mr Circumspect goes to paper like that it means a lot more than someone else just I. You know sending a reply on twitter writing a letter. So how important is it. He went to paper on that and also made his ten minute public statement. I wasn't expecting either of those things from him. Yes writing a A rebuttal to the attorney general. Who technically at that moment was still Bob? Muller's boss was You know I'm GONNA say out of character for Muller I mean ordinarily what we would do under those circumstances. If we had a dispute in our chain of command we would go behind closed doors doors with our boss and we would say boss. I've got some real concerns here but I think Muller recognized how high the stakes were and he also recognized how how dangerous bars mischaracterization was and that it was done. I think with I'm you to say evil intent And Muller felt compelled to put in writing his rebuttal his correction of what Bar said so so I think for him. That was Difficult but necessary. And you know I appreciate that Muller said listen. I'm going to stay within the four corners of my report. The problem is once he raises his right hand and swears. To tell the truth he will have to answer questions. That are sort of proper questions in that. They don't violate grand jury secrecy rules so they wouldn't require him to disclose matters. There's that are before the grand jury Or compromise ongoing investigation. So I think those are two areas where he can decline to answer answer because those are legitimate reasons to decline to answer those questions beyond that if there are questions that are posed that require him to go beyond the four corners. The report you know. He's raised his hand. Sworn to tell the whole truth he's going to have to answer those questions As long as they are sort of properly phrased My concern is that you know the Republicans are going to want to ask him about dossiers and spying on the trump campaign as a distraction and the Democrats may want to push muller well beyond the report to a place. He's not comfortable going. You know like if the president accident where a private citizen wouldn't you have indicted him for obstruction of justice. I can tell you was a career prosecutor. The answer is hell. Yes and but I don't know the Muller caller will answer that question because of the way he has you know already signaled that listen. The criminal justice system is not the place to formally accuse a sitting president of crimes that places the Congress and you know basically Muller's report report was an impeachment referral plain and simple how congress hasn't gotten that or why they are declining to open impeachment. Hearings has as me scratching my big bald head every day us to believe me and you know something like the question of if he were a private citizen would you indict him. I'm I'm almost sure of and I haven't worked with Muller's at all but I I just imagine him saying I'm not GonNa answer any hypothetical questions. Hey Hey it's a g hear. This is the daily beans. I hope you're enjoying my interview with Glenn Kirschner. We have a lot more to discuss the stay with us. This helping of the daily beans is brought to you by ancestry. DNA Hannah ancestor. DNA is a truly meaningful gift with the power to connect families over the holidays. Every family has a story and ancestry Danny can reveal. 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You'll be glad you did and now back to our July seventh interview with Glenn Kirshner is anyone actually consulting the Democrats on how to ask Muller these questions because I think that's very important I assume so but I I don't know as as as a matter of fact I think you should I think you should and I think David priests should probably get in there and who briefed him on a daily basis. Be like all right. Here's how you ask Bob Muller Questions Events and here's what he won't answer I I'm hoping they have some good consultants in that in that vein but And you mentioned the Republicans and we know from public reporting already. The the Republicans are planning on attacking Muller How do you think I'm I'm very interested to see how he responds to questions or at least statements? That aren't questions. Do you know how they do that. That wasn't a question from folks like Jim Jordan Matt Gaetz and Devon Nunez and Louie Gohmert who. I don't consider to be very intelligent. I mean those most men are a little more than gum on the bottom of Bob Muller shoe he will be unflinching in the way he deals with their nonsense and Shenanigans. which which is all? It's going to be it. You know it so reminds me of when I was in basically trial court prosecutor for thirty years and I would have defense attorneys. Who who would cross examine my witnesses about everything other than the facts of what they saw? And that's what these Republicans are going to do. They're going to talk to Bob Muller about everything everything other than the fact that Bob Muller found extreme coordination between the trump campaign and the Russians in volume one and ten or eleven instances of obstruction of justice by the president of the United States in volume. Two I would bet that the Republicans gins are going to ask him a single question about those topics. Yeah no I doubt it myself And I imagined he just simply won't entertain Shenanigans as you said he doesn't seem like a Shenanigan entertainer so This is all congress. You know this is all the stuff that's going on in Congress and as you mentioned they still still have an open and impeachment inquiry which I think would benefit them and trying to get these materials and that they need and the testimonies. They need at least speeded up through the courts As Muller clearly clearly gave them a map to do but right now there's a potential for the trump administration to defy a supreme court decision. If they aren't already by by trying trying to add a citizenship question to the census and I was wondering what role you think the judiciary could potentially take in saving our asses versus Congress. Yeah well thank goodness. The state of our judiciary remains strong because it may be our last hope if Congress sort of remains as timid as Congress has been thus far. Now let me tell you before I move onto the SRI. I hope Congress has a plan. I hope Nancy Pelosi and company have a plan And you know I keep hoping for something good to happen and I keep being disappointed but I can't help but wonder what it is that was collected up as a result of the counterintelligence investigation. Maybe there is still something big coming that is going to make you know. Ten counts of obstruction -struction of justice by the president look like jaywalking fences. I don't know maybe there's something holding Pelosi and company back that is going to actually be so much bigger than the Muller report and that's why they are hesitating but be that as it may the courts have shown us over and over again that they are perhaps our our last best. Hope at making sure this is gonNA sound ridiculously hyperbolic but that our republic survives because every time a consequential issue hugh has now made its way into the courts whether it was the sort of lawfulness of congressional subpoenas issued for trump's banking making records and financial records. You know we saw Judge Mehta in DC Federal District Court. He's an old not hold these young but he's a former public defender in my backyard and the D. C. Courts and he's a very strong judge and a very strong lawyer in a very strong person. And you know he took the administration in a situation to task when trump's lawyers stood up and said yeah. The House has no right to issue these subpoenas for my records Judge May to knock that down at light speed so the courts are doing the right thing. They can do the right thing quickly. We saw that again with judge Ramos in New York and similar litigation Shen over the Subpoenas for financial records from Deutsche Bank and cap one for the president. The president's lawyers went down in flames very quickly in that one and I know they're appealing and it's still ongoing but the courts can move quickly and efficiently in the courts still cared deeply about the rule of law and most judges cared deeply about governmental governnmental misconduct. I was in the courtroom when Judge Sullivan whom I litigated. Before when I was a prosecutor in DC took Flynn's lawyers to task. I mean that was a the thing of beauty to watch and it gave me patriotic goosebumps. Because it's like the courts still care and I think they can move these things through the courts pretty quickly once the house starts. Filing you know actions to enforce these subpoenas for tax returns and what have you You know when we look back we you can see that. There is a precedent for the courts to move quickly. You know back during Watergate when GIA war Sqi issued a subpoena for Knicks six the Nixon tapes I think he issued it in April of seventy four and the Supreme Court got it. It worked its way up through the federal system and they resolved that in July of seventy seventy four unanimously against the president and in favor of the enforceability of subpoena. Now these are different times but I do think the courts know what's at stake and I think the courts can and will move these things through quickly once. Congress begins a steady stream of filing. You know actions to support these subpoenas enforce these subpoenas. Yeah exactly and you're right there so much that's unknown you know as I'm working my way or worked my way through reading the Muller report very carefully I know Muller said Upfront that hey there's a lot of evidence since we couldn't get because people I do us people destroyed evidence people used encrypted apps people you know et Cetera et Cetera. And I think he was mostly talking talking about seemingly Manafort at that point who breached his plea agreement and I'm wondering and I don't see any reductions for harm to an ongoing matter later in the manafort section in volume one. But what happens when you breach your plea agreement all those crimes that you would have been charged with. I would think you would be charged with breath after you reach your plea agreement and I don't see any of that all of his lies and You know any coordination or any you know I mean. He said that he didn't have evidence or couldn't establish evidence or find enough evidence to to charge these as grander conspiracy but like what happens to all of those charges. That manafort was forgiven. Ah because he was cooperating. After he stopped cooperating. And I I just don't I don't see it anywhere. Maybe it's in the counterintelligence stuff but it's it seems to be missing to me. Yes so ordinarily when a cooperator falls from grace and we withdraw from the plea agreement. We we are free to charge any crimes that we decided against charging were. We agreed not to charge in light of the cooperation. But there's a second issue that we always have to confront under those circumstances and it's the sort of the time and the resources and the energy that we would have to put into prosecuting somebody who is already been convicted. A couple of times over serving seven plus years years about to be prosecuted by the State of New York hopefully successfully and put another number of years on top of his head DO WE WANNA gear up for another the prosecution. That's going to take a whole team of FBI agents and prosecutors away from what they're doing which is hopefully going after other wrongdoers so it doesn't doesn't shock me that we didn't you know sort of launch into new charges against Manafort because he breached his. Play Agreement You know that's always IT'S A it's a challenging issue to confront when you know. I always said that we are the federal government. I was the federal government when I was a federal prosecutor but believe believe it or not we still had limited resources we had limited number of prosecutors. We had a limited amount of time to bring charges against a whole lot of criminals. So it's not always easy to bring every charge you would like to bring in a perfect world. He had no. It just seems like these are specifically unique circumstances to which I think the public's right to know about those crimes that could have included coordination or conspiracy Might have just been decided not to be prosecuted in favor of the fact that he's probably already going to jail for the rest of his life. You know what I mean. It's like yeah but it just seemed like unusual circumstances to me. I know it sure seems I was like you know I. I was very aggressive. Prosecutor also like to thank aggressively protected the rights of every defendant that I prosecuted by making sure that I was you you know abiding by the rules and the law and you know holding for example If there was police work that was inappropriate and that may have violated a defendant's rights while it was my job to to step in remedy at turn it over to the defense and dismissed the case if it was that dramatic violation of a defendant's rights. And I did that when I was chief of homicide in DC on a number of occasions But I I hesitate to say this because I you know Bob. Muller taught me how to be a federal slash homicide prosecutor when he was my chief at the US Attorney's office in DC. But it's hard for me to conceive of how there is no larger conspiracy charge for everything we learned about. What manafort did what gates did sharing polling data with Kalinic and and and rolling into that the trump tower meeting with the Russians and Don Juniors participation and all of the hundred and forty plus contacts that Bob Muller laid out in volume one? I understand if you're going to go after the king you got to kill the king but boy it sure looks like a conspiracy that many prosecutors could bring and many juries would convict on Again I don't want to second guess. Bob Muller Muller I always trusted his judgment before so you know we we have to live with the decisions he made he adds where at at least if we knew why. But I suppose saying well we were going to charge him with all these other crimes but we don't have the resources are we. He's already going to jail. That's going to taint any future jury. you can't just come out and say those kind of things but It would be irresponsible but yeah just like you were saying conversations and that August third meeting with manafort where he discussed the three. Are you specific states for specific states. Michigan Pennsylvania Wisconsin with Kalinic and gave him the polling data. And then it just so happens. Mr Trump won by eighty thousand votes in those three states to steal the electoral college. And and it just like what key piece of evidence is missing To table to tie those together I feel you on that so but it is interesting and I do trust Muller's judgment there has to be a reason I can't find it in the declamations but you know we'll see I mean maybe like you said more out there that we don't know about yet there are fourteen referrals. I think a couple of them are cases and the other pending investigations to several. US Attorney's offices offices now unfortunately they are still sort of at the whim of Bill Bar because they're at various US Attorney's offices but you know at least they are out there and hopefully they are moving forward award and as hard as it is for us to sit to take a wait and see approach given what we're experiencing every day by a runaway President We unfortunately are going to have to wait and see what those other fourteen matters. You know what what is produced by those. Yeah definitely and then. Hopefully we'll get some counter. Intelligence information from shifting the Intel Committee but it probably nothing of substance that we can look at as citizens but You know maybe in thirty or forty years they'll declassify all of it all right. Well thank you so much. A former former federal prosecutor. DC Chief of Homicide Army veteran. Thank you for your service and MSNBC legal analyst Glenn Kirschner Glen. Thanks for coming on Muller. She wrote thanks for having me appreciate it. The daily beans executive produced and directed by AG and Jordan Coburn and engineered edited by Mackenzie Mozelle and starbucks industries. Our Marketing Manager Executive Assistant Production Social Media Direction as Amanda Reader. Fact checking research by Jordan Coburn Amanda Reader. Our music is written and performed by. They might be giants. That's our web design and branding or Baio moxie design studios and our website is daily beans pod dot com.

Bob Bob Muller muller Congress president Bob Muller Muller Bob Muller President trump prosecutor DC trump Manafort Bill Bar US Attorney New York Glenn Kirschner MSNBC Glenn Kirshner MSNBC
The Liberal Losses Are Piling Up # 1031

The Dan Bongino Show

1:00:10 hr | 1 year ago

The Liberal Losses Are Piling Up # 1031

"Get ready to hear the truth about America on a show. That's not immune to the facts with your host. Dan Bongino Dbongino show producer Joe. How are you today? It's Friday so you know I'm doing is thank you to today. I will be on the five on the Fox News Channel Five o'clock Getting Ready to jump on a plane afterwards head up to New York head back into same day because I don't WanNa Miss Shows the studio studio China. Don't Miss It. You always make us look good with the ratings I will be there. I promise you there will be some fiery debates. We will still be addressing the Muller Apocalypse up on Capitol Hill that disaster the cosmic disaster the infinity wars like disaster. I got a little bit on today middle of the show. We kinda covered a lot of it but I've got some Ilan. Omar stuff to that is just going to blow your mind. It is just getting worse. Don't go anywhere stay tuned. I've as stack show. We're GONNA catch up with all the other stuff earlier in the week that we missed. 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G. dot com need more convincing. Go check out their YouTube. Channel YouTube Dot Com Slash Bravo company U._S._A.. All right let's get right doing nice okay story number one. I promise we'll get the Somali stuff. I've got some great video of G._O._P.. Reps Sean Duffy Absolutely filleting Bank Guy who turned into a social justice which is actually pretty cool so stay tuned for that but let's start off with this video hard to believe hat tip David Brody and C._B._S.. A C._B._s. news that discover this. This is a two thousand eighteen video that has surfaced of Ilhan Omar the discuss the the discussion. She's having here is disgusting. It's really awful. I say this because the reason I'm playing video. It's obviously racist what she says but to show you that the left standards are setting for us in this upcoming debate and twenty twenty conservatives trump's supporters racists xenophobes fobel phobic is to folks you guys they're really looking in the mirror and talking talking about themselves. Play this kind of Ilhan Omar talking about how we should all fear white guys and I want you to keep in mind while you're listening change out in your head the word white for literally anything else Black Hispanic Attic Asian Islamic anything else right and tell me how this cut is not evidence of pure unadulterated racism. Our country should be more fearful of white men across our country because they are actually causing <hes> most of the deaths within this country <hes> and so if fear was the driving force of policies to keep America safe American safe in sight side of this country we should be profiling monitoring and and creating policies to fight the radicalization of white men. You know I got to be honest with you. I got this a couple of days ago. Yeah and you know my show always cautious. Sometimes it bites us. We got a couple stories awhile back we didn't run with. I just wasn't sure I don't make any apologies. I don't have a staff of Twenty investigative journalists to run everything down and we get innumerable tips as Paul Joe can vouch for <hes> we do what we can and are focused largely been on spy gate because we've got a triage their needs so I got this a couple of days ago and I swear Joe. I thought Gosh she's just one of those stealth edited deep fake videos casseus. There's no way this is real folks. It's real that's an Aljazeera interview of Ilhan Omar. David Brody C._B._S. has it up on his twitter. Yes and more full length video too. That's not edited to be deceptive that is Ilhan Omar actually suggesting suggesting that if we're the profile we should profile white people if we want to stop basically crime and all this other stuff again. Please replace white with anything else not figurative literally anything else right women even black men Black Women Hispanic men Gay Hispanic Men Gay Hispanic women anything else and that is an unbelievably racist statement that would be condemned universally if anything other than Ilhan Omar Senate now folks before I even put up this treat by Paul Sperry. I'm not putting this up to justify or unjustified. The Stupidity Ilhan <music> Omar the stupidity of the statement and the racism embedded and imbued in that outrageous commentary. She just made speaks for itself. It's racist. That's enough. I'm trying to show you who the left is before twenty twenty when they call you this xenephobic misogynistic fogler phobic pistols this is them. They have a race problem not us. Oh Yeah not us you WANNA be welcomed. OUTTA Maga- rally go there as a Hispanic Man Hispanic like woman a black man of black one. I promise you you I promise you you will be welcomed with open arms. I will put my entire credibility my show on that. I promise you that because no one Outta Maga- rally cares that you're a black man or a black woman or Hispanic man or a Hispanic woman you know what they care about hugh share their values. That's all they care about but showing you. How Stupid Omar suggestion is that we we should profile white men for radicalization because they're they're put up? The SPERRY tweeted speaks for itself. Pulse Berry tweeted out yesterday some F._B._I.. Numbers there's the link at the bottom. It's U._C._R.. That F._B._I.. Dot Gov table forty-three eighty three if you want to check it out yourself and you're not watch it on the Youtube Pulse Berry and I quote Democrat Rep Omar claims most of the deaths in this country are caused by quote white men however the F._B._I.'s uniform crime reports suggest fifty three point one percent of all homicides are committed by blacks who make up just thirteen percent of the population compared with forty four point two percent for whites folks. I did not put this up to add fuel to a racial fire. Omar seems to liked to stoke. I'm suggesting to you that the profiling based on the Melanin component or lack thereof someone's skin is idiotic. It's idiotic before you even get to the data and it's inherently racist to do that. We should be profiling based on behaviors. That's what you do. Behaviors have nothing to do when you profiles. Listen everybody profiles when you're a police this officer it's two o'clock in the morning Schumer's broken window in front of a store. A Guy's got a cut on his hand that a hammer you are profiling a set of behaviors whether that person's a woman a man Black White Hispanic Green Blue who alien Asian Muslim-christian Ju- Doesn't matter I have arrested people have all colors and all races. I've made gun collars of what was what was that guy from the Greek white guy a black guy from Jamaica. It doesn't does it matter you don't profile based on race one. It's dumb and secondly it's immoral. You don't judge someone based on the Melanin content that their skin the whole essence of the Maga- movement the conservative revolution and this trump beer is everybody deserves to be treated equally regardless of these characteristics they can't control. I thought that was obvious apparently not Ilhan Omar oh my gosh now by the way just a quick follow big hat tip to nate madden over over at the blaze T._v. says video he's at Nate Madden on twitter this video this is him confronting Ilan Omar who still refuses by the way to answer questions about the allegations that she may have married her brother. The evidence is getting a little ridiculous and file the false tax return. Here's mad up on the hill asking questions which she won't answer congressman. Do you want to address the questions about tax. Immigration fraud related to your marriages they would you like to clear up any of the lingering confusion about the allegations of marriage tax related. Do your two marriages woman. Would you like to clear up any of the confusion or South record straight on the allegations of tax fraud or immigration fraud related to your two marriages. I don't understand why it's so hard to answer this question. It's not hard good sudden inappropriate question Joe Him. I WANNA put this out fairly because again. I'm not going to do the conspiracy theory stuff the left us with trump collusion. You have any evidence that no but it sounds good right by the way I get to that later to and former M._S._N._B._C. Host Crystal Ball coming out admitting hurled network loves conspiracy theories that was I got that a little later I get to it if not it's in our show notes but this is stack show today folks. There's abundant evidence out there that Ilhan Omar may have married or brother may just clear it up. If someone said to me Dan Bongino did you marry your stepsister and commit tax fraud no. I don't even know why you'd asked me I would. It'd be more than happy I don't get. It just didn't happen. I don't know why you'd even ask. Why is she? Ducking these questions why just to answer the question you could see my shows earlier in the week unless we were we cover this explosive mm-hmm story and by the way upset when I say covered fairly here's what I was going with this. There are mounds of evidence that there is at least some substance to this story Jell O.. Yeah believe me when I tell you far more evidence than there ever was of the collusion fairytale which there was none ever. It was a hoax from the star. You have photos you have a guy she appears in pictures with who she was married to holding these two babies of Omar sister saying look at my nieces. You have a hospital band with his date of birth and he says he's not the guy with that date of birth and it's there on the hospital. That was a great if it's not a brother just say it yeah if you didn't commit tax fraud just say it media doesn't care at all all right moving on on we do have a lot to get to the house yesterday passed the suspension of the debt ceiling. I just wanted to briefly cover this folks. I said to you this budget deals they disaster. I'm sorry I don't care what anybody's telling you. This is a three hundred twenty billion extra dollars of debt. It is a debt splurge. The House passed yesterday just so we're clearing what happened yesterday. Thursday past eight suspension of the debt ceiling that step one in the spending splurge that wasn't actually the budget they passed yesterday. I'm hoping the Senate stops this disaster. Mr Folks we cannot suspend the debt ceiling without proper spending concessions. Call your senators and email them do not suspend this debt ceiling without spending concessions from the Democrats. I'm begging you. We're going going bankrupt enough said I'm not I'm not forfeiting my principles for anyone anymore. We have got to get a lid on this spending problem or you and I see of reading and interest rates through the roof in the future because no one's GonNa lend US money. This can't continue okay before I get to some muller stuff. There's a couple of other tidbits. I WANNA tie up on our Friday show. I wanted to play video. It's a little over a minute so it's a little longer than we typically play but this is a very very good G._O._p.. Representative Sean Duffy. Why like allies Mary to colleague Fox News Rachel Compo Stuffy Sean addresses this growing phenomenon which I've told you is deeply disturbing? It's something ladies and gentlemen in our triage of needs spending problems economic growth healthcare fixes getting the bottom of spy gate. This should be near the top and what I'm talking about is D platforming folks the left after his figured out a very new strategy the squad the radical leftist the activists behind him a new strategy to combat conservative ideology Freedom Libertarians their political opponents frankly any Democrat that disagrees with them to huge. Oh Yeah they've the guys they Dave Rubin. Who was a democrat? He's a liberal. They don't like him either because he actually gives conservative voice on his show. Liberals can't win in a national election repeatedly. They can't and without winning repeatedly. The four or five terms in a row the presidency the house in the Senate they won't be able to enact their socialist agenda so I've covered this has been kind of an evergreen topic on my show Longitudinal when they don't win politically long-term what do they do. They go to the courts. I may use lawsuits to get acted what they can't enact by public opinion so a lot of the social issues have been done this way gay marriage and other things whether you agree or disagree there's no question that it was losing at the state level and it wound up winning in the courts parts. You're free to your own opinion. I'm suggesting you as a political strategy. The left said let's not take the state by state now. Let's fight it out. In the courts they eventually one in the Supreme Court. What's happening Joe Trump and Mitch McConnell by the way? Can you miss out a vicious been doing decent job on judges regardless of your feelings on other things but cocaine Mitch has been appoint. Excuse me they've been confirming. We've got to be precise confirming through the Senate. Trump appointed conservative judges dodges at a near record pace now they are now jamming them through there were about I think there were ten just the other day a like a lot of mergers ease filing cloture on them left and right. What's the problem Joe? Okay the left camp. Wait at the ballot box now now. The left can't win in the courts because the courts are being transformed back to their original function so what was strategy number three and they work together. I don't WanNa make them out to be sequential. Their symbiotic sometimes parasitic do do tells her. Although that sounds like opposites number three is the platforming they are now using twitter in social media to pressure public companies sometimes private companies the two D platform and get rid of conservatives or anyone that aligns with a conservative agenda now the D platforming on Youtube and twitter is obvious for your conservative. They like like they with us what Youtube where where they are the first twenty four hours a day monetize videos while all of you watch and twenty four hours eight and like okay you can make money on them now. Is They told you some people you guys are ladies are awesome. You're like well. Should we wait twenty. I you know don't wait twenty. I appreciate that I just I just WanNa get the content out there and the fact that we can use Youtube a liberal company to get conservative ideas out there is great. We love it. Don't worry about us in the money. Well we're fine. We'll figure it out. We have work. That's right. We've got planned be the don't worry that D platforming obvious but ladies and gentlemen. There's a lot of shadow D platforming going on out there with liberal social social justice words. That's just as damaging and one of the areas they're targeting is the banking industry they WANNA get conservatives. Anyone aligns with the conservative 'cause completely platform from the financial industry so not only can they not make money but even if they do they have no way to transfer that money in and out of accounts between accounts or to spend ended folks come on. Let's be honest who works who spends cash anymore probably less than ten percent of us. I don't know cast is dying. I wish it weren't but it is people use debit cards transaction could even e-bt t cards are cards now used to get food stamps. They were actual stamps like they look like checks. Yeah no more now you get an e B._T.. Card everything's electronic so the backstory is clip. I'm about to show you because this is. I'm telling you this should be at the top of your Totem Hall of issues right this D platforming is now gone into the immigration case. There is a bank that wants to merge these two executives are up on Capitol Hill in front of this congressional committee and Sean Duffy gets a hold of one of these executives who is now said his bank. He's not going to provide banking services to any company that assists the immigration effort at the border with these facilities basically. They said they're not going to provide services to these detention facilities being run by private companies which would do what you put them out of business. They I need a bank. GotTa move money. Here's Sean Duffy absolutely fillet in this guy and give him one of the best examples I've ever heard. Watch the guy. If you guys follow the law you work with the regulators and you work with the Department of Justice and you get approval. Do you think that this merger should go forward representative. I absolutely do Rogers D- Blue Representative I do so let's say that there's a few people America who are GonNA protest us and say this is a horrible merger. Bigger banks are bad. Smaller banks are better. The Congress needs to intervene and say this shouldn't take place. Even though you followed the law. Would that be fair to you Mr Rogers representative. I think we'll we'll follow the would that be fair. I don't think that would be fair because I I don't think so either. If you fall the law the Congress should intervene and say oh hello Mr Rogers Mr King to banks can't merch because what Mr Rogers you have policies in your bank that say if we have detention facilities that are caring for children or for detaining individuals who may not know who they are following American law. You say I'm not going to bank them. Is that fair we consider a variety of representative. We consider a variety of factors. Is it fair making those decisions Asians. Is it fair we do. Do you think that detention facilities are concentration camps. Yes or no representative. I've never character used that characteristic. How about Ice Ice Nazis representative? I've never the care so you have ice in. You have some of their contractors that are following American law and you will tell us. I want to keep American safe in the bank inside. We're not a risk to anybody but mister rogers that you like. No I WANNA open orders. I don't want us to detain anybody in America. I don't want us to fall the law open borders. Let everyone come in without any processes that your position at suntrust representative. We're not taking a social position. Fleas are taking a social position coffee by Nice that is core GIS beautiful. What a way to knocked this down now? I'm not suggesting they should vote against the merger. That should be done strictly. I don't bomb that I'm a libertarian even when it hurts us and I believe Duffy feels the same way of suntrust and I don't know who the other bank there was but mister Rogers there who who is apparently the head of suntrust wants to merge and needs some form of congressional approval. I wish they did but they do but Duffy brings up a good point well what if a couple of knuckleheads on twitter started protesting this merger. Should we stop stop the merger. Oh no you should stop well. Why not you know Y- apparently you're you a couple knuckleheads on twitter? Thank you should de bank detention facilities being run to save our immigration system. Why should we stop the merger then and cave cave like a bunch of social justice snowflakes like you did? Do you think that's fair <music>. The guy sounds like he's passing a kidney stuff. I'm asked you Mr Rogers ooh the laser procedure to break up those little crystals guys in the bathroom passenger stone. ooh sorry Mister Rogers you want to engage in social activism activism that I have no problem with with Duffy calling you out on it again. I I have a strong Libertarian Street. I mean no way suggesting the government should stop a merger if it meets the requirement so the regulations fine but I gotTa Tell You I have zero oh issue at all with Duffy making this guy looked like the clowney is you're not GonNa Bank a private company following the law helping our country enforce immigration law because a couple of dopes on twitter tweet at that you company suntrust how embarrassing <hes> good for you. I saw that I know that clip was a little long but that's worth every second of your time. That's how we fight back. We don't apologize Josh. There's no apologizing good for you. Representative Sean Duffy. Everybody should send them an email call his office. Send them a tweet. Say Nice job on that. I know that didn't get a lot of publicity out there but we have a piece up. We'll put up the show up on Gino Dot com about this. I think it's an J. J. Review. It'll be better show notes at Bongino Dot Com again you subscribe to my email this. They'll send you these articles but seriously if you're in his district you're in Wisconsin. Send him an email. It was office stuff like that makes a difference these CEOS what they have to know if you WANNA play ball and cave to the social justice warriors snowflake crowd they're going to be questioned and you're going to answer on Camera Knbr why exactly you don't WanNa help the United States of America but now you're in front of the citizens of the United States of America and their representatives asking for help frauds all right today show brought to you by buddies at Boll. Oh andbranch Bowl B. O.. L. L. Bollandbranch DOT COM listened. These are the best sheets out there. We sleep on them and I say even I don't sleep great because I may and I'm falling apart. When I sleep on anything other than Bollandbranch? It's awful I get a solid solid night with bollandbranch. She's I'm not kidding. I don't even like to travel anymore because I'm not on bollandbranch sheets. It's tough. I need that Nkhoma Comfort blanket I do or else I can't do it Boll and branch dotcom Promo Code Bongino. You'll you'll get fifty dollars off your first set. Everything bollandbranch makes from bedding to blankets listen to this is made from pure one hundred percent organic cotton which means they start out super soft and they get softer over time. It's like a fine wine after a year with these things you beat you forget and won't sleep anything else. You will not see mark my words Joseph. You'll be like what happened to the sheets. I don't want them. I need my boll branch. Everyone who tries Boll and branch sheets loves him. That's why they have thousands of five star Reviews Forbes Wall Street Journal and Fast Company or all talking about Boll and branch even three U._S.. Presence Sleep on Boll and branch sheets shipping is free. Try Them for thirty nights if you don't love him. Send them back for a refund. I doubt you want to send them back you. There's no risk no reason not to try. We Love them here in the Bongino household to get you started right now. My listeners get fifty dollars us off your first set of sheets at Bowl B.. O. L. L. Andbranch DOT COM Promo Code Bongino for fifty fifty dollars off fifty smackers go to Bollandbranch dot com fifty dollars off your first set of sheets. That's B. O.. L. Andbranch Dot Com Promo Code Bongino now. Check it out. These are seriously great sheets. You won't know the difference till you try them. You will never send these back to that good. Check them out. Okay Duffy. Was I going to cover nick. Oh great great great article in the hill. I know we beat the Muller thing up. There's still couple of loose ends to tie up because it's been such an apocalyptic disaster for them. You know it's it's Hilarious Joe. I don't know what's going to happen on a five later. I don't know who's in the liberal seat. Mancini wants back or Chess Tarloff Karloff was in today but if we get into Muller I'm telling you right. I'm not taking any cuff on this. I'm not I did this. Thing was an apocalyptic cosmic level infinity wars thunnus level destruction snap disaster for the dams. I am not going allow you to try to change it well. It was okay like I had Chris Hana's debate and Chris Han and the Ingram Ingram Angle Wednesday night at Hans say onset well. It was a mixed bag it was it was it was a mixed bag of rested lug nuts six-month-old the eggs left in the farthest Florida son and a horse manure. That's what was in the mix. It was not a mid span Chris. It was awful it was a disaster I could go on and on and on matter of fact just said something that he wasn't Ziva true say well Val demings Democrat Congressman when she crests when she questioned while it got him to admit that basically donald trump wasn't telling the shoot. That's not what happened. Muller stumbled through the whole thing said that an invalid demings acknowledges trump told the story on T._V.'s dealer so we lied he hit his answers and anyone talk about it on T._v.. The next day Debbie giddy sense. It's not though it doesn't make sense of course so there's still a couple of loose cents tie off on this. Here's this article by what's his name Kevin Brock who is very good Kevin Brock opinion contributor. The hill sat the show notes. It's worth your time now. Why does this guy's opinion matter? The by the way the title of the article the Hill is muller lost much of it must've our trust and that's a shame for him and for us and he's right it was the sad sad thing to watch it was brock was a senior executive in the F._B._i.. Joe This guy knows his stuff. This is not some random guy off the street. This guy knows Muller knows Muller's history. I believed work with them at one. The point is familiar with the F._B._i.. Internal mechanics this was a disaster was ashamed for everyone and just kind of reiterating my point folks. I've said to you repeatedly. I think it's a mistake now to personally go. After after Muller you can disagree the emails on this have been back and forth we have filleted his dishonorable investigation and his atrocious tactics for two years but folks as a matter of political strategically not jury winning matters new rules. Remember the new rules we win you lose. We are convinced our pocket the forty percent of America. It's voting for trump. No matter what folks give me a second before I get this because this is really important because I had a little bit of back and forth with a guy in gym today about this and I don't think he got what I was saying. What Oh yeah yeah I get it yeah? That was sorry yesterday. That's right that I tell you about that. Sorry Paul interrupted me. Yes thank you Paula. Thank you MS so adult background. I think he got what I was saying so as an Jimmy talking to this guy and he's like this is the time to pile on Muller folks works as a matter of political strategically. I'm telling you this is wrong. I'm trying to think of an appropriate analogy where I could put you in this shoes and flip it around and instance where the Republican Republican Party thought we had a win and we piled on and it wound up backfiring for US badly. I mean there are examples of this. I'm not saying what we were doing at times weren't wasn't right. I'm just suggesting as a matter of. Political Strategy there were times joe you have to take on the Chin and move onto a different fight knowing that the goal is to win. We have to win my point with Muller. Now is attack ruthlessly this investigation it was horrendous. It was a disgrace the humankind show have we been even mildly milked host on that no hell no no we have shredded Muller's credibility the point I was making to the guy in the Jim is muller piled on himself. I made this point zero to Laura. He destroyed himself yet folks. He's a seventy seven or somewhat seventy year old. It's always credibility is done on. It is time for us to let his Co.. Personally personally let his conduct there which was a trainwreck speak for itself. Now we pile on the investigation Weisman his own Chelsea mistakes. Thanks but personally going after at this point I think is a huge mistake now because we need these independents who are now starting to realize what happened. We need them to focus focus. Listen to me please. We need the focus now on the investigation how badly it was conducted. How it was a political witch hunt on trump and how we got a boomerang this back to the spying scandal and we can't do if we spend all of our time above molars an idiot? He's an idiot. It doesn't work that way. I'm getting so many emails on us. I feel like it's important to bring it up and the brock apiece gives you some ammunition going forward to attack this investigation for the disaster. It was from the article. Here are some bullet points. I need you to remember these are Friday takeaways ways. Here's what Muller was dealing with from the start and why this investigation should've never started all right so here's what we got here. Here's Brock's bullet takeaways for Friday. These are devastating number one. There was no the underlying crime in this case or properly predicated investigation to even obstruct. We need to hammer this over and over again to get these independents on our side ladies and gentlemen we have to win. We don't need a pyrrhic victory. What a pyrrhic victory? Three is it's one of the short term we feel better more jerk and it makes you feel good. The problem is the independence then don't focus on stuff that actually matters and we lose the election you one short-term. We lost long-term. Stay strategic. The left knows how to do this better than US focus on this point number one. This was an improperly predicated investigation because there is no crime. There is no underlying crime. I can't say this enough now. We're going back to top level high level stuff now. That Muller's completely discredited himself number two there may be no precedent for charging obstruction of a counterintelligence investigation folks a counter intelligence or see. I investigation the F._B._I.. Is Not designed for criminal prosecutions. You may say well why did Muller criminally prosecute people because Muller flip the script in the middle of the game game and switch from an investigation to a criminal when we discussed this spy gate the book I wrote with Denise and Mad Muller was supposed to be investigating and gathering information on Russian attempts to influence influence the election he turned it into a criminal case on taxi. medallions Michael Cohen for some bizarre reason none of us can figure out third the intertwined twine political motivations and overtones were an unsavory factor folks. We should never ever run away from the fact that the People Muller appointed to his team were unquestioned Hillary supporters and Die Hard Democrats and two of them had a legal affiliation with members of the Clinton team or the Clinton Foundation. Now here's going to be the liberal retort to that. The liberal retort to that is how Muller answered it Muller said and this was a mistake. I don't ask people their political Michael affiliations. You don't Bob so just by chance you interviewed all these people for your team and all thirteen of them were Democrats including two lawyers associated with the Clintons and people who donate it to the Clintons and showed up at the Clinton Party night. What does that say about you Mr Muller that should have been the question <hes> showed you follow that is yeah you liberal friends are going to say we don't ask political affiliation exactly league? That's the problem that when you interview these people you happen to just randomly dreaded air quotes pick thirteen diehard Democrat anti-trumpers. What does that say about you bob at says exactly what Kevin brought this F._B._i.? Official is kind of hinting at that Gosh how unsavory was this that even if Muller didn't consider as he said political affiliation his instinct was to go with thirteen not people who hate trump what that's not an answer the next point. What am I four four? It's difficult to argue that an innocent person can be culpable for resisting this thing efforts to punish yes. Yes yes folks we have to focus on the fact that although some of Donald Trump's actions were looked back looking looking back on it may not have been handled textbook after I wanted him to fire muller and now it should be you know what some guy asked me well Dan. Are you gonNA take the No. I thought he should've fired. Mullah from beginning muller was awful. I'm starting. I think that if we would have fired muller who've been done with this long time ago. The case was done horribly if anything I've been proven right not wrong investigation was awful. The Muller reports horrible should've fired him in the beginning got someone else John there. Would it cleaned this whole thing we could actually look to what the Russians did but ladies and gentlemen think about this point so you're suggesting to me liberals out there that we should object to donald trump being angry because he was being investigated for crime eaten. Commit let me read that one again. It's difficult to argue that an innocent person can be culpable for resisting efforts to punish so you wanted to punish trump for a crime. Everybody now knows he did not commit you wanted to punish Wattisham for it you that investigated ruthlessly his lawyer and all the people around him. You invent that a bunch of process crimes to put them in jail and you're upset that we're upset. It happened. Am I reading right brilliant point yeah next number for good number. Five most allegations were based on uncorroborated single witness statements. Yes folks read the Mullahs report. Look at the footnotes read this thing now twice portions of it three four and five times the Muller footnotes. You'll see a lot of the information he has the footnote goes back to watch. Oh goes back to a statement made by Jim. Call me you hated Donald Trump. That's why I object to the VAL demings testimony. Just tarloff was talking about on the five Val demings basically says to mother like at some points voiced donald trump's answers untruthful. They weren't untruthful. You don't know that all you know is that Donald Trump's statements conflicted. We call me. He's we know always Aligarh so why Jodi serum going this absolutely why are we assuming that Comey said this and trump said that and that Komi automatically was telling the truth and trump there for how to be lying. Why are we assuming that I'm not suggesting in every incidence statements by people on the trump team were accurate clearly they word? I'm simply suggested that assuming everything Jim Komi said based on his brock says in this piece a single subject to count assuming everything call me said was true is an absolute fool's errand. You are beclouding yourself so call me matters but trump's statements. Don't ask you liberal friends why oh trump's Aligarh Kobe's Aligarh Komi told trumpy wasn't under investigation and he was so you liberty. You need to penalty flag for him. Liberal Friends Joe yes see documented liar in this case is Komi. Yes he is Komi who used ooh and signed off on a dirty dossier. He told trump was unverified and then stamp verified on it. He told Donald Trump he wasn't under investigation when he knew he was Komi is a documented fraud and yet a single subject account by Jim Komi Footnote in Muller which supposed to take that as Gospel and if a statement conflicts what trump said automatically trump must be wrong what evidence the you have that the answer is none only call me who's already documented liar air. Here's the last one this is a good one. None I repeat none of the allegations actually impeded or obstructed the work of the special counsel folks go back back to our show on Wednesday where we played some early clips from the early morning session of the disastrous apocalyptic bad muller hearings Muller is asked repeatedly by multiple people was your investigation impeded or obstructed the answer. There's no Andrew McCabe deputy director the F._B._I.. was asked on Capitol Hill by Senator Marco Rubio was your investigation impeded. No Jim Komi was asked before he was fired. Was Your investigation allegation impeded no Jim Komi under oath where you were you was your investigative impeded. No Jim Komi at his departure ceremony. The president can fire me for whatever he wants. There is no obstruction case here. This is a fraud at this point is garbage. The guidelines had nothing to do with it. There are multiple witnesses who heard Bob Muller say it wasn't due to the guidelines. The reason there's no obstruction charge in the Mullahs Report Ladies and gentlemen has nothing to do with the L._l._c. and everything to do with the case stuck. There was no case they would have been laughed out of court. Can I just give you a hypothetical here for a moment brief moment yeah guys. Can you imagine Joe Prosecuting. This case against Donald Trump say leaves office. Now say doesn't get reelected the D._O._J.. indicts Donald Trump and instruction case or some of his intermediaries mediaries <hes> there on the stand with Andrew McCabe who opened up the obstruction case after call me was fired the first question Andrew McCabe. It's going to be what Mr McCabe on after Jim Komi was fired. I believe it was the week after in May of two thousand seventeen you are under oath right up on Capitol Hill. When you testify the Senator Rubio a Yes sir I was when you were asked by Senator Rubio if there was any effort to impede OBSTRUC your investigation? What was your answer of you Mr Mackay if you could say it loudly for the court please? He's my answer was no. There was no effort Mr. Can you say that again. I'm some of our jurists may not have heard you this gentleman over here. I see Kinda rubbing his ear out a little bit. I'm can you repeat that again. I said there was no effort to impede or oh you did and you open it obstruction investigation. Yes a day later we missing something here. Oh trying to connect. I'm not getting it. Bring Komi up asking the same question even better her. Bring Jim Komi up and say Mr Kobe weren't you. What were you in the President's office in January twenty seventh yes I was did you brief the president about the status of this Russia probe I did what if the president say to you? The president asked me if they've they were members of his administration that may have been in cahoots with Russia basically to investigate them though satellite to his Mr Komi you understand you here for an obstruction of justice investigation. It's the president correct yes sir I do so you're telling me on one Dan you believe the president obstructed justice and on the other hand you're telling me the president United States asked you to use the justice system to investigate people in that case you're alleging. He's obstructing yes sir. That's what I'm saying. Okay Okay Okay Rave cricket here. We go the Dave cricket which he sent this to more. The jury would be like this. We miss what might not getting this. What are we finally mock trial Bob Muller Stick Bob Muller up there Mr? I only have one question for you. Serve you could speak up again for the audience. Please speak into the microphone. Yes thank you poor guy over. There's a little bit hard of hearing I ask you to use your your outdoor booming invoice here <hes> Mr Mueller was there any effort whatsoever to impede or obstruct your investigation and if there was can you name it wasn't sir. Can you say that again please. Jani Beg donuts is having a rough these rubbing his ear again mccue hippies okay. We got where the WAX Rx. They didn't even pay to be on today's show. We gave them a box of wax Rx sprayer here. Hold on. Let's open the way we're going to do this standby folks we are opening to wax Rx because as we needed here we go about. There's a little spray your kid. There's a little bit there we go wax Rx played out his ears. He got the Alexa Mr Muller. Can you say that again. was there any effort whatsoever to impede your investigation investigation. Thank you Mr Muller and thank you wax Rx for cleaning Joey Bag donuts over there at his ears. He heard you loud and clear. There was no effort to obstruct anything now. I assume I'm on the five today. I don't know who's going to be sitting in the liberal argument well. He thought about it ladies and gentlemen. This is not minority report with Tom Cruise. We don't do thought-crimes here minority report they lock people up to the pre cogs before they commit. A bit of crime you sit in your house. She got hey what happened. I was thinking about attacking my neighbor. Did you know but I was thinking about ladies and gentlemen. We don't have three cogs. Bob Muller is not the pre cog. Remember the hat. This is the fat but they have the pre con cats they put them on with the little things and and they're coming out with the wires and stuff Bob Ma does not have the pre cog hat okay. He doesn't have it. He doesn't have pre cognition abilities. There are no thought crimes. Okay the fact that Donald Trump thought about firing muller which isn't even a crime not even close or fired. Komi is not a crime. There was no effort to obstruct the investigation. It's over yeah. I like. I time to get out of Dumb Ville. You would fake you think you would think all right. Finally today's show Talk Paula what you think of that. I heard you laugh out there. You like the WAX Rx. Maybe this is it is the kid comes in. It's great clean your whole ear out man case I got tons. I love it comes a little year conditioner to respond. They need it apparently people up on Capitol Hill. That's for sure I was good. I just has caught that okay the audience always whenever Joe says some it slips by the audience always know all right today's show brought to you by a great sponsor G. Code you carry a Firearm Ladies and gentlemen G. Code is the way to rock and roll the best holsters in the business. These are fantastic holsters. Their fee NAM in the waistband holster phenom is phenomenal. That was really horrible joke but it is phenomenal. This thing is a game changer. It is the best in the waistband holster you will ever find listen. I'm a firearm owner. I carry multiple weapons have o'clock forty three three sixty five. I gotta say full of Him Right for more than twenty years. G. Code has produced what many consider be the finest holsters in the industry me included they lead the pack. There are one hundred percent American made products all materials all components source right here in the great old U._S._A.. The owners of G. 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Matt put a lot of work into it so I wanna just highlight this a map Palumbo on my website on dot com put together. The five questions Muller refused to answer. I'M NOT GONNA DIG deeply into quickly. Go through it but I want you to read the piece. It's worth your time because there is still questions. We have open here in the case case one why was again. Joseph Mifsud not charged for lying if his muller documents in his report but she does miss lied to them. Everyone else was charged with lying to federal agents. Why Not Miss I think you know the reason because Masud was probably a western Intel asset and Muller's doing his best to not get to the Truth About Masud second no questions on the dossier? It's only the document that started the whole thing. You're not even remotely curious Bob now as my buddy to seven a nine cents to me in an email and I got your email sorry I didn't respond. He listens to the show so I can talk to them to have just been a crazy day. I just wanted my sources. He's terrific. He wrote Dan. Don't you find it interesting. That Muller did everything he could to not find Russian collusion in other words. He only did what they told him to do. Follow me folks. We think trump is a Russian agent. That's what I'll investigate if he's the Russian agent. Where'd you get that from? I don't know I see no evil. You get what I'm saying. You follow me. Oh Yeah I want you to investigative. Joe Rob the bank right well jody and robbed a bank. This was just a scam by his neighbor to get joa trouble. Don't say anything about the neighbor telling you just investigate. Instigate Joe robbed the bank. That wasn't rob. Okay whatevs there's a reason muller to investigate the dossier and didn't lock myth soon because Muller and Weisman did everything they could not get to the bottom of the spying scandal if you dig. He only investigated what the Rosenstein D._O._J.. Crew Fed him which was colossal bolt. This was an air die the investigation he would not answer if exoneration is a D._O._J.. Policy by the way liberals are completely completely missing the point why my second book on this which coming out September you pre-order it now if you want to check it out and Amazon Barnes and Noble Tamous Plug their the book is titled Exonerated Tip Specifically to Troll you idiots. Do you not get that. They can tweeting my book like Dan Bongino. It's putting out a book. Here's the link he say trump was exonerated. Don't do that lives don't tweet by book and the title Doda Stop it immediately. If you're watching Youtube right now you get this. Stop tweeting and insulting me on twitter with a Book Lake. Please write Paula stopped doing it. It's only been a bestseller and it's category for three months. Stop tweeting my book and insult Tabby who stand what's going on here. Joe Gets it gets everything. Paula certainly gets it because it was part of the plan and she's a part of all my plans. Every day my entire life stop tweeting about what my book especially with the book link and the insults it hurts my soul devastating. Please Stop Bob. Baller won't even answer why exotic you can't exonerate someone. Why did you titled On Your Book? Figure it out okay right there. Were twenty five plus leaks from the Muller special counsel none of them flattering to Donald Trump Bob Muller wouldn't answer the question. We didn't leak these great minimum. Oh you leaked Bob. The information came from the special counsel. He wouldn't answer that and another thing is what he wouldn't answer the vessel in the sky connection you that's in the piece by Palumbo police. CHECK IT OUT BONGINO DOT COM. It'll be in the show notes again today. Gosh it's fifty two minutes already finish. I'm having so much fun doing this. Show more peace. We have up in the show deb. DEB's are going to double down on stupid folks. Don't expect any of this to go away again another conversation I had in the gym yesterday with a friend Demos on the leg press machine. He's like hey man. I see you're going heavy today that I'm not kidding. It's true story at five plates on each side. I said No. This is the warm-up I do that for. Maybe like monster quads quads dominoes. I'm not kidding and I said not. I put two more on this is the warm up but I was talking the whole time at his my upper body shredded but my legs are still good. Thank God that's not using the Lord's name I mean literally. Thank God for keeping my niece safe. You know the DEM's are going to double down on stupid guy came up to me as I was in the middle of send then he goes. Oh they're going to let this go on our folks. They're not going to let it go. They're not GonNa let it go why there's a reason this is from Reuters. She's up at J.. Democrats vowed to accelerate trump probe after muller victory. They're not going to stop folks. There's a reason and think about it. We are in primary season right now. The radical portion of the Democrat Party roughly twenty five thirty percent of the Democrats out there. Maybe more maybe up to forty now cannot stand this guy. I trump this. They viscerally hate the president. They can't stand him. They want pain induced. I don't mean physical pain. I mean they want the president emotionally in pain they want him taken out of office. Humiliated embarrassed some of certainly have made death threats and things which is legal by the way it wasn't a secret service agents. You know my former line of work on a case you were unaware that in addition to being entirely immoral unethical but that's a whole other point but many of them want this guy to suffer. Do you understand that when you have to understand the new rules this battlefield mentality now. They want you to suffer these people. They are not going to let their congressional representatives. Let this go ninety. Five Democrats voted for impeachment. That's that's insane for a crime. That never happened. I told this guy in gym. He's let it go. They are not going to let it go. I don't tell you this to disappoint you on a Friday. I tell you this so you understand that we there's a fight ahead had I told them to take the L.. I warned them before Muller. Got Up here to take the L. Right. I think it's going to damage them politically. I think they're going to lose the presidency if they stick with this but they will not let this go and I don't want to you have any expectations that that's going to happen if anything they'll double down now Jerry Nadler was utterly and completely humiliated up on Congress up on the hill humiliated and that's sleazebag Adam Schiff small well and all the other conspiracy theorists yeah they will not stop okay. What was my last one all right? I wanted to get this. This is a good story for Friday just to show you how much of a hypocrite Bernie Sanders so you know Bernie Sanders we of course we love Bernie the only imitation I can do you know Bernie said we need minimum wage twenty dollars an hour for everyone thirty five. Let's make it one hundred pretty wage Bernie Sanders a fraud Bernie Sanders has always been a fraud. He's as a lazy fraud. I'm really sorry people out there the birth Bernie Bros.. Who believe in this guy? He's a total fake at all like the millionaires you notice. He stopped saying what he says now. I'm not messing. He's not a joke the listening to him now. He goes like the billionaires. Why why do you stop say that? Is he billionaire. That's right. I'm a millionaire. I forgot so when he becomes a billionaire. He's going to Idaho like the trillionaires I can't had standards. This guy is the biggest fraud and Congress fifteen dollars a fight for fifteen o gives like the Communists I. Let's go. This guy's a fraud. He's a fake. He's got like that the hammer and sickle thing going. He's a phony except he doesn't WanNa pay any of his employees on his campaign fifteen dollars an hour now. We covered that story earlier in the week. It'll cover stories twice but I don't have to. What's the update? This is hysterical. We gotta treat workers fairly bloomberglaw Bernie Bernie Sanders White escapade labor complete peace ever piece. This greatest peace ever Birdie said there's paid as been hit with a National National May Labor Relations Board K. play by unnamed individuals in Indiana staffers this tension between Sanders and his staff is boiled over publicly. This is amazing. Listen to the allegations Birdie says Bernie Sanders. I love the workers. His campaign has been accused of illegal employees interrogation and retaliation against staffers folks. This guy is a colossal tedious level six tries to highest level of trump derangement syndrome infection fraud. He's a phony not only did he not give his employees to fifteen dollars an hour minimum wage right then when they complained retaliated started interrogating him because I loved a police state I am the party's not front Birdie is a bright show Bernie's communist communist would do next. He'll be here here. We go. I love this is one of my favorite books next to Gulag will become in the best book ever the Gulag Archipelago next thing you know Bernie. You'll be setting up the KULAKS. He's that should be his answer. I am not a fraud. I am a communist and what do we do. We beat the snot out of our employees in interrogation. What is what we do hammer in style? That is how it's done. Didn't you idiots pay attention to history. I call me anything but I am the real McCoy we put them in a room with the heat. headlamps red sparrows style. You see that movie Red Sparrow we put the heavy metal on and that's what we did. What is the NAPLE relations board complaining about this communism at its fighters? I take all of that bags. Bernie is not a fraud. He is a legit communist they lie they cheat they steal and they never have any accountability at all and when people complain they interrogate them Birdie is legit. This guy is the real McCoy Ladies and gentlemen. They're throwing the flag on myself under the Hood for review Dan Bongino we are reversing the play on the field Bernie Sanders. There's is not a fraud. He is legit Communist. We just provided the evidence the red flag of course we want to the hood for review. We are reversing the play on the you feel. The play is reversed. Birdie is the real McCoy all right. We gotta get out of your. Hey Watch me on the five later. I promise it'll be if I am not putting up with any collusion nonsense today. Don't miss this show and don't miss the Tucker explosion the news explosion. I do like eight fifty eastern time. I'm going to hang around up in New York to do that before I had back tomorrow. It's going to be a tomorrow Saturday tomorrow.

People Muller Donald Trump muller Donald Trump Bob Muller Paul Joe Sean Duffy US YouTube twitter America Aligarh Komi representative Democrats Trump Ilhan Omar fraud Paula Muller Apocalypse
Trump tries to spin Mueller hearings as a total victory despite Mueller testifying the president was not exonerated; Mueller defers or declines to answer lawmakers' questions 206 times, refers to report at least 43 times

Erin Burnett OutFront

51:47 min | 1 year ago

Trump tries to spin Mueller hearings as a total victory despite Mueller testifying the president was not exonerated; Mueller defers or declines to answer lawmakers' questions 206 times, refers to report at least 43 times

"Thanks for listening to this show and you can let us know what you think about it. At pod thoughts dot com that's pod thoughts dot com and thanks again for listening tired of spending hundreds of dollars for prescription glasses visits any today eggs any dot com slash C._N._N.. Breaking news good evening I'm Erin Burnett Affront tonight the breaking news president trump triumphant taking impromptu questions on his way to a fundraiser to declare victory after Robert Muller's historic testimony so this was very big day broad country. This was a very big day for the Republican Party as you could say it was a great day for me but I don't even like to say that it's great this was okay devastated gay muller appearing for seven hours in front of the House Judiciary Intelligence committees and he made several things extremely clear to the millions of Americans watching Robert Muller said this AW Director Muller the President has repeatedly claimed that your report found there was no obstruction and that it completely and totally exonerated him but that is not what you report said. Is it correct that there's not what the report said reported not conclude that he did not commit obstruction of justice. Is that correct that is correct and what about total exoneration. Did you actually totally exonerate the president now now in fact you reports expressly states that it does not exonerate the president does and your investigation actually found quote multiple acts by the president there were capable of exerting undue influence over law enforcement investigations nations including the Russian interference and obstruction investigations. Is that correct correct the president refused requests to be interviewed by you and your team Yes yes and is it true that you tried for more than a year to secure an interview with the president and is it true that you and your team advised the president's lawyer that quote an interview with the President is vital to our investigation close yes and is it true that you also stay quote stated that it is in the interest of the presidency residency in the public for an interview. Take place yes but the president's still refuse to sit for an interview by your your team true true that exchange was chilling president trump once he leaves office could go to prison for quote a lot of years they continue to discuss if convicted of some of the crimes laid out in the report after leaving office now tonight we again listen to the president of the United States dismissing the Russian investigation in his two most teams tropes but also tonight the first time we hear Robert Mueller respond to those tropes and say the president lies. There was no defense this ridiculous hoax this talk. That's been going on for a long time and when Donald Trump called your investigation a witch hunt that was also false was not like to thank so yes well. Your investigation is not a witch hunt which the president said the Russian interference was a hoax that was false wasn't true those were muller at his best short concise not going beyond a sentence declarative and those moments did not require Muller going beyond is written report but there were a few moments he did that matter like when he was presented with trump's tweets celebrating wikileaks a hostile intelligence force backed by Russia helping him if we can put up slide six this just came out wikileaks. I love wikileaks. Donald Trump October tenth twenty sixteenth. This wikileaks stuff is unbelievable. It tells tells you the inner heart you gotta read it. Donald Trump October twelfth two thousand sixteen. This wikileaks is like a treasure trove Donald Trump October thirty first twenty sixteen boy. I love reading those wikileaks. Donald Trump November fourth worth twenty sixteen woody. Those quotes DISTURB YOU MR director. I'm not sure I would say you react well. It's probably problematic is is an understatement and in terms of whether to play displays in terms of giving some. I don't know hope or some boost to what isn't should be illegal. Activity problematic is an understatement. He said it was wrong but then there was another side of Muller a witness who time and time again seemed to not be star tripping over himself on key findings which is exactly what Republicans were hoping for in in the context no public conduct collusion collusion and conspiracy or essentially synonymous terms correct in that page one eighty volume one of your report. It says this as defined illegal dictionaries collusion is largely synonymous with conspiracy as at crime is set forth in general conspiracy Statue Eighteen U._S._A.. Three seventy one now you said you chose your words carefully. Are you contradicting your report right now. Not when I read it so you change your answer yes then no the if you look at the language I'm reading your reports or it's a yes or no answer H.. One eighty page one eighty volume one this is from your report more wreck and I leave with the report so therefore says yes they are Saddam. Hopefully for finally out of your own report we can put to bed the collusion conspiracy okay that was not a great moment for Muller and it was questioning like that but as the president praising his fellow Republicans performance I very much appreciate those incredible warriors you watch today on television Republicans that defended something I defended something very powerful. Abby Philip is out front live outside the White House tonight and abby the president at least acting as if he is triumphant Johnson that's right Erin. The president started the day irritated by the prospect that Robert Muller would be making a comeback in his life appearing before the <hes> the congress testify but he ended it elated thinking that this testimony was actually sleep better for him than it was for Democrats the President Criticize Muller saying that he did a terrible job in the testimony and also as special counsel. He did a victory lap over what he said <hes> was was testimony that did not reveal real anything new about the investigation. The president dismissed Muller Muller Talk of the report not exonerating president trump is saying that muller had no no role in exonerating the president that's actually a ship for president trump who has spent months and months talking about how the report has completely and totally exonerated him but in highlights the way in which the president and his allies of you this testimony and they butte this way early on as not living up to the expectations one White House eight telling me that the Russia investigation was so over but as president trump answered questions today one question seemed to stick in his cross he was asked about the prospect that he might be potentially indicted if he left office because of that opinion opinion saying that the Justice Department candidates sitting president he lashed out at those reporters and seemed to be confused about that part of Muller's testimony but this afternoon the White House Press Secretary Stephanie Grisham reacted to all of this saying Muller wasn't just explaining that generally elite speaking of president can be charged after leaving office not addressing this case she said Muller D._O._J.. Have made it clear that no more indictments are coming from this investigation so direct response there from Stephanie Grisham the White House Press Secretary to something that seemed I do too particularly irritate president trump this afternoon when he was speaking to reporters again all right abby thank you very much and certainly would on many levels right. They went through that <hes> you know if convicted with some of the charges that could come from <hes> what this report lays out. He could be going to prison for many MM years if convicted after serving his time in the White House guys are terrible taking care of their health. Whether it's a knee injury bad back or something worse guys usually more comfortable rubbing some dirt on it than seeing a doctor. I'm guilty of it myself. The same is true for erectile dysfunction studies show seventy percent of guys who experience he don't get treated for it. Thankfully Roman created an easy way to chat with a doctor online with Roman. 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Democratic congresswoman foul demings a member of both the House judiciary an intelligence committee so she questioned Muller twice today and it had some pretty strong exchanges in both cases congresswoman. I appreciate your time so president. Trump came out you know you heard him on the White House lawn on his way to this fundraiser. He says it was a devastating day for you Democrats. He says says you have nothing and now he says I'm sorry you had nothing congresswoman and now you have less than nothing your response to the president well you know I almost feel that is probably a waste of time to respond to what the president and said look. What Special Counsel Muller did today was to confirm a lot of things that if you have the time and the opportunity to read the report you'll know is that Russia interfere with our election in a sweeping and systematic way that the President I tried his best to interfere with the investigation into Russia's interference that several people around the president have been indicted or pled guilty to lying during the investigation that the president tried tried to fire the special counsel directed the White House attorney to do so thank God the White House attorney refused to do that and that the report did not exonerate the president and you know it really sends me Errand to hear the president talk about the Democrats grads being unhappy disappointed? I can tell you right now. <hes> my colleagues are definitely not disappointed and isn't it interesting that the president wouldn't comment today about Russia interfering with the election you would think he would mention that it as opposed to Democrats being disappointed but to your point you know Bob. Muller said that they were doing that as he spoke. They were trying to interfere look. We just played some extensive portions of what went what happened today. <hes> you know there they were moments when Robert Muller was very strong and there were moments where he seemed to perhaps not be familiar with a report as many expected and the president seized upon that talking about Muller's performance here he is moons ago. I there's anybody who would say he did well. This was one of the worst performances in the history of our country. Do you think Muller did a good job today. I think a special counsel Muller did exactly what we needed him to do. Look we're talking about a man who has spent a lifetime and public service. We're talking about a two year long investigation over four hundred and forty eight pages of that investigation and asking him to start at the beginning today I believe that we ended up to exactly exactly where we hoped we would and that was special counsel Muller confirming the most critical parts of the report and adding that in many of the president's written responses he was not always truthful all right so that was very important moment in in your questioning congresswoman and let me start with something that you got him to say that frankly was shocking and to your point was not in the report. Let me play that exchange. Could you say director Merlo that the president was credible. I can't answer that question director umbrella isn't it fair to say that the president's written answers were not only inadequate and incomplete because he didn't answer many of your questions but where he did his answer show that he wasn't always being truthful. <hes> I would say <hes> generally so right there muller saying you know if you take his answer at face value right that there were times the president was not being truthful and his written answers which there's a stunning thing to say. It got the president extremely angry in fact it was the moment of his exchanges this afternoon and let me play what he said. When asked about your exchange with Mr Mueller Group would you are you a question? You're truthful truthful Wilson. I don't know if you've who had seen that yet congresswoman demings but you know pointing his finger pointing at a reporter know your untruthful for even asking that look clearly your exchange with muller through the president. <hes> Muller did not say the president. <hes> wasn't truthful in the report so you got him to say something that was not in the report were are you surprised he did it. What we do know is that <hes> special counsel's office tried for over a year to get the president to sit down and do an in person interview wished to President Refuse so the president chose do written asses which he had a lot of time with him and his legal team to decide what to say and still could not always find the truth in his written responses? I believe director Mullah was extremely clear that there were times in the president's written answers that he was not truthful and really Aaron that comes this no surprise to anybody well. I think we should point out my count was thirty five times. I believe in those written answers he said I don't recall and I don't remember and at the least it would seem that some of those times that is probably not the case ace. I WanNa play another big moment that you had with during the Judiciary Committee Congressman demings here you are did other witnesses lie to you can probably witnesses in terms of those who will not telling the truth and those are outright liars. Thank you very much outright liars. It is fair to say then that there were limits on what evidence was available to your investigation of both Russia election interference and obstruction of justice stas usually the case and that laws by trump campaign officials and administration officials impede it. Your investigation would generally agree with that congressman. The big question is trump direct those campaign and administration officials to outright lie in the words of Robert Muller. What does this answer? Tell you all his answer. No let's start here Erin. Remember this investigation Asia started as a counterintelligence investigation about Russia interfering with our election. Now you would think members of the campaign and members of the administration would want to cooperate fully with that investigation yet according to Director Mahler <hes> there were several members who lied during the investigation and so that tells me as as we indicate during the hearing that the investigation into Russian interference and obstruction was impeded by people around the resident president who have no relationship are not a continuous relationship with the truth our congressmen demings. Thank you very much. I appreciate your coming on the show thank you the newsworthy gives you all the day's news in less than ten minutes each weekday and and there are stories about politics tech trends business and entertainment but it's more convenient and less depressing than your typical news. I call it fast fair and fund so it's fast. It's less than ten minutes. It's fair and unbiased pull from a collection of news sources. You get many different perspectives perspective in one place. It's also fun high energy casual and upbeat quickly get informed and get on with your day with the newsworthy search for the news worthy or go to that newsworthy dot com and now former principal associated deputy attorney general at the Justice Department Robert Hurtling our senior justice correspondent Pres- they've had priests who briefed then F._B._I.. Director Morally Muller Daily as CIA intelligence officer former New Jersey Attorney General and milk German David Gergen who advise four presidents okay. Thanks very much <hes> to all of you so so let's let's start here as try to lay out on the answer there were some really strong moments and then there were some moments that weren't we're less so and I'm going to get to that but I just the Muller Strategy. There were two hundred six times that you counted that Muller did not answer questions and just to give people a sense of what that felt like here he is. I'd have to pass on that. I'm not going to speak to to that and not get into those matters to which you refer refer Democrats say. They knew they were GonNa get this but yeah. Did they really know they were going to get. I don't think they were quite aware of how much of this they were GonNa get and I think if you want to witness like Bob Muller to come with a and and have the Gravitas that he has to bring all of that <hes> I think you you you also hope that you know within the four corners of the work that Bob Muller has produced four hundred fifty page report that there are there is room for you to save some stuff for you to be able to to explain to the public and frankly has a responsibility I mean he's got thirty million of the American public money two years of time and I think he does have a responsibility to explain a little bit more about exactly what happened here he he did seem in the in the afternoon session to go into more depth. I think <hes> with regard to the to the Russian interference. I think that's probably closer to his heart. That's where he feels the strongest. I think <hes> and more comfort in talking about but it's not like he didn't he didn't make it abundantly undeclared he didn't want to do this and I think that's what you got. You got somebody who you know the obviously. He said he wasn't exonerating your president. There was a few moments like that but there was a lot of those answer right and you know in the afternoons when we got for example without demings when he said yeah you know we did untruthful the written responses which did go beyond the report and surprise many but David priests as I said they were multiple instances where it wasn't just didn't want to answer the questions. He seemed to struggle <hes> just to beat to be frank here two of them. Is it accurate to say your investigation. Gatien found no evidence that members of the trump campaign were involved in the theft or publication of the Clinton campaign related emails. I don't know I don't know what well on July twenty second through through wikileaks thousands of these emails that were that were stolen by the Russian government appeared Greg. That's on page six of the report. This is the wikileaks posting of those email. I can't find it quickly but please continue. I have to look at that in two ways Aaron. One way is that this is not the Bob Muller. I remember that was years ago and he hasn't been out there doing a lot of Q._N._A.. With Congress recently we saw him several weeks ago giving it prepared statement at the Department of Justice reading from a prepared statement is different than being in front of the committee answering questions trying to have immediate recall of things that you've worked on. I did not expect to see that side of Bob Muller today. That's a different man than I used to brief however this was the Bob Muller that we expected to see in terms of what he did with the substance. He promised us he was going to stay within the report as much as possible he said I don't want to testify. Read the report. Everything's in the report. If I testify it will be the report. This is my testimony and he generally stuck to that so while his delivery was halting and molly had some problems sometimes getting the right word with the actual yeah the written word to be honest what was on what page and what it concluded right and that prevented him at times from doing what I expect. He would have done back when he was F._B._I.. Director where he would give a no but this sometimes that pause led the member who is on a very tight hi time schedule to jump right in with the next question and it made him look even more hesitant to answer than perhaps he was and you were surprised that he didn't push back more at the beginning particularly at the beginning of the Judiciary Committee hearing I thought he was incredibly differential and there were a couple of moments events where and to be fair to him. There were times where someone went on a sort of long title exactly and then the time ended and he wasn't given the opportunity to to sort of push back but I thought after the first break in the judiciary hearing that changed a little and he started it to defend his investigation and his team Robert The thing is there were times where he stayed within the corners of the report as you're pointing out but then there were times example with vow demings where he went outside. It was a little unpredictable well. I think he thought he was always staying. Within the four corners of the the report <hes> I think that interchange with val damages a little peculiar. It's a little hard to understand exactly what he's saying when he just gives that one word answer generally <hes> but I think that inter I think that <hes> David is absolutely right. You have to distinguish between the words and the style. I thought it was interesting that President trump criticized muller's performance because his performance was not good but the substance of what he said I thought was devastating to the president and David so let's talk about the Republican response to that the president obviously jumping on this but republicans were seizing also on the sometimes halting you know performance or seeming lack of familiarity with the report itself. Here's Congressman Mark Meadows who of course is a major ally of president trump. Here's how he put it. Sadly I think a lot of members of Congress had a better understanding what was in the report than he did. Did Muller Help Republicans today right. It was a big moment a lot of people rather report. They're going to see more Republicans conservative for crying out now. This was a disaster for the Democrats <hes> D- Wasn't just muller's hesitancy but in fact the substance he wasn't there and they they came prepared to fight <hes> I had not expected that I mean they were much more coordinated. They presented presented a you know they presented things. Frankly we haven't talked about much on C._N._N.. Aspects of this that are on the right but we don't you know we haven't visited them because we don't put much stock in a lot of what they're arguing <hes> but nonetheless. I didn't think it was a disaster for all the shortcomings <hes> I thought the Democrats did a solid job especially the members working with Muller in effect telling the stories about obstruction this story a much more credible come to life kind of story that they had now about about the questions going rate straight to the heart of all of this was there deady interfere interfere the president interfere with the with the investigation trying into fire and going through him again to get that that was on that and let me just play an exchange because this was a case where it was very basic questioning right just without quoting this is what the report says here are two examples actually talking about this issue <hes> with Don mcgann and falsifying documents you investigation found that president trump directed White House counsel done again to fire you it net curric- true so it's fair to say the president. We tried to protect himself by asking staff to falsify records relevant to an ongoing investigation. I would say that's a summary those are two damning things and he was very declared incredibly damning and I think what you see is when Bob Mars asked us specific factual question he generally gave an answer and he generally was was was able to sort of work through it. There was a lot of ward salad in my view in some questions today and even I- who've read the report multiple times in a follow this I had to think through what was was happening and what I think you see with Bob. Mueller is that when he's GonNa he's going to respond on facts but he didn't want to agree to other people's conclusions whether it was the Republicans or Democrats facts but I'm not sure I agree where you're trying to be made into a sort of partisan for either side and so on the factual questions I think you saw the kind of damning things from the report that we just saw this and there was a moment in the morning with Congressman Tetlow Okay and when I heard it I said big moment you just big moment or big mistake and I I wasn't sure right and then we're all start talking talking about it okay. The bottom line was told Congressman Lou that he didn't indict president trump because of the O. L. C. Opinion Right so did he didn't indict him because of that so let me just play the exchange and then when he was forced to walk back here it is. I like to ask you the reason again that you did not indict. Donald trump is because of oil see opinion stating that you cannot die sitting president correct that is correct wanted to go back to one thing that was said this morning. by Mr Lou who said I quote you didn't charge the president because of the opinion that is not the correct way to say as we say in the report and I said at the opening we did not reach a determination as to whether the President committed a Crime Evan lose questions at I was extremely clear. His answer was shocking. It appeared to be a bombshell. It wasn't a minor non-answer no and as you said it was a very clear question and I can tell you right after that answer and certainly when they took a break there were a lot of phone calls being made between the special counsel team between Mothers Team and the Justice Department saying what the Hell just happen <hes> and decision was made that he needed to clean it up he needed to come back and fix it. Because the Justice Department certainly on March fifth there was this briefing Muller's team and Bill Bar who had just taken office and during that meeting Jim quarrels one of the deputies there said specifically that it wasn't a but for at least three times during that was but for no decision right it wasn't about four no charge different as a huge difference. Were you surprised that he didn't seem to understand that it's an easy question to Parson retrospect. I can understand looking at this now as I could understand time what how Muller interpreted that question and I think he actually went back later in the morning in response to questioning by another congressman and said it correctly. He didn't make a decision into indict because of the L._l._C. Opinion. That's absolutely clear I don't think he was. I don't think he intended to say anything different than that. In response to Congressman Lewis Question I think you with someone who so precise at something so core. I think it's a lot of people all right. Stay with me everyone out front next Robert Muller on the defensive. He answers why he did not subpoena president trump plus. A chilling warning about Russian interference in American elections wasn't a single attempt anti they're doing it as we sit here and they expected to it <hes> during the next campaign remember to create an ad like this one visit pure winning dot com slash C._N._n.. Breaking Tonight President trump saying he has no regrets about refusing to sit down for an interview under oath with Robert Mueller. I did the right thing I what he did to people how ruined people's lives because they didn't remember it date or something very minor and Muller had to explain today why he did not force the issue of an in-person under oath interview. Why didn't you subpoena the president caused quite obviously one of the things we anticipated wanting to accomplish that is getting having the interview of the president we negotiated from with him for a little over a year but finally <hes> when okay we were almost towards the end of our investigation and we'd had little success in pushing to get the interview of the President <hes> we decided that we did not want to exercises subpoena powers because of the necessity of Expedi- in the end of the investigation you did go with written questions after about nine months or right and at the president responded to those and you have some hard language for what taught those responses what did you think of the President's written responses Mr Miller certainly not as useful as the interview would be and of course we're called that he then told congresswoman demings <hes> that he agreed with are generally that they were untruthful truthful answers so at least not always being truthful so back with me my panel so David pre start with you? Why didn't Muller pursue that further when he wanted one he felt it would have been vital? He made that clear to the president that it would have been vital. It only said that again and again president wouldn't do it. He did not pursue that subpoena. This is one of the areas he actually explained fairly well in the hearing and a parallel but was in the report yeah talked about the balance here here. He talked a little bit more about it and he said we had to balance the added value of an in person interview you against the fact that this would delay the investigation at a minimum months possibly years with court battles and all of this. What additional information would we need now? What was unsaid? There is the fact that he felt he had damning enough evidence about what the president did did and why he did it that he didn't really need this but he didn't say it in that way in the report which leaves it to people in Congress to interpret. Was this really an impeachment referral or not and Bob Muller wasn't going to talk about bar gets in and makes his you know that he's not somebody's the waters David Gergen. This is a crucial point. Akasha Maloney made that point said well. Is it possible that you did not pursue that interview because you felt that you had enough damning evidence and you did not need his interview to prove that he may have felt that I think it was a mistake. He need re Democrats Sir. You're going to go after trump. If you really believe in your heart that you know that he's lied his way through this at he is culpable then sees me. You've got to play hardball game and the Republicans are playing harder ballgame than Democrats are Democrats are much more respectful of uh-huh procedures and rules and that sort of thing and the Republicans boom they're they're playing for power and they have the views this tactic delay delay delay and it's not only stretch it out where they could justify not asking president to come in but frankly the the today's hearing would've had been much more impactful had been to three months ago. You know there'd long stretch of time between when people forget the details when they're hazy when they move on intellectually I thought the Democrats from that point that it had a bunch steeper hill to climb time today than they would have if done this earlier evan there is that you know that sort of how you know when you read the President's written responses which of course we hadn't seen for so long right. You read all those I don't recall. I don't remember it does seem to be a joke and and yet it appears that he you know I don't know the right word but he's certainly got away with giving an interview like that which wasn't in full and wasn't even all the question right. I mean it turns out. If your president you can get away with a lot and that's the answer that we get from mother refusing fusing to go the route of of forcing <hes> to try to do to the president. I mean the one or the other these sort of left unsaid things here is generally the Justice Department has rule that if your target of Investigation <hes> the just doesn't try to force fourth prosecutes. Don't try to force you to sit down for an interview right. There's this you know there's a general rule there and so maybe that played into this but the muller clearly was not going to say something like that in in his testimony and you do have to wonder you know as far whereas the Democrats were concerned <hes> they were hoping he was going to be a star witness today and if you watch what he'd said today <hes> to David Point I think I if they had done this a couple months ago. I think maybe you would have to feel differently but it does feel Eli. It wasn't the star impeachment witness that they were looking for and it's because of answers like this right. I mean there's sort of doesn't really give you a satisfaction that you know more about what happens didn't put it. It didn't put it in black and white there were moments but overall. It didn't Robert they. We're moments where you know. He was passionate and confident okay. There weren't a lot of them where he just you felt fire. Okay and I'm not saying you should. I'm just saying there weren't a lot but I'm one topic there was he was defending his team against trump saying that they're a bunch of angry Democrats on a witch hunt Clinton donating all this money to Democrats. Here's that moment. Can I speak for a second to the hiring practices. We strove to hire those individuals. That could do the job okay. I've been in business serve almost twenty five years twenty five years. I have not had occasion wants to ask somebody about their political affiliation. It is not done what I care about is the capability of the individual do the job and do the job quickly and seriously and with integrity not that was the fire in the valley moment right. I think it's stunning that people would suggest that Muller had some sort of obligation to import political balance into the investigation and to inquire into did the political beliefs and activities of of his subordinates in fact I think that probably would have in violation of the Hatch Act if he'd done veer the idea that that these were a bunch of Democrats working for a person who was appointed by Republican Republican presidents and by all accounts probably a Republican himself <hes> Robert Mueller. This somehow affected their <hes> their inquiry. There's absolutely no evidence of that whatsoever. It's just a smear and dust. It's being thrown up there against these people in your belly you saw on other topics. I think default the nuances in the report were so important that if he were to get emotional were to try to bring out more by his style well I think he would he thinks it would have cheapened the impact of the report but in fact what the Democrats certainly we're looking for and hoping for just a few of those were him speaking passionately about the issues not only of Russian interference but about the president's obstruction of justice and the things that the president president did to attempt to block the investigation and a lot of this was about and look Democrats say it wasn't but it was this was their case to the American people who did not report to hear about the report from Robert Muller and decide whether impeachments going to happen or not Nancy Pelosi's made it clear. It's not a matter of principle it's a matter of politics and political whether it makes sense okay and on that front there was there were several key exchanges one of them. Was this one question this morning. You're asked I could that could a president be indicted. After their service correct. Yes and your answer was that they could the follow up question that should be concerning is what if a president serves beyond the statute of limitations. I don't know the answer that one and that was huge moment. He's reelected he would serve beyond the statute of limitations on some potential charges that it's not an insignificant question no that's completely true and and it's the officer the just just from an office of Legal Counsel Regulations doesn't address this question what happens if the statute has run the statute would run on obstruction of justice if the president ause while you're an off exactly and it's really important point and Congress's talked about taking it up as a legislative they have not but it is really important point that I think was worth making to does this move the needle. We're Democrats say okay. WE'RE GONNA move ahead on impeachment even though we can't get it through the Senate because of this issue I think even though the Democrats a solid job today presenting their case I think the likelihood of impeachment went down sharply today because the issue is not just what goes on Democratic Caucus and what goes into goes onto judiciary committee is what goes on the general public and didn't Nancy Pelosi and others others like her or waiting to see if the public rallies. I don't think this would galvanize galvanize public. We know that that the number of people who believe in impeachment according to the lawyers N._B._C. Wall Street Journal poll has gone down six percent. It's only twenty. One percent of the country wants associate impeachment proceedings. Do you think is flipped twenty thirty percent of battery. I don't think your star witness. You just saw the star witness today right to go back to the sort of the ornery. Almost you know the fire into belly type of <hes> muller that we saw just just glimpses of today you know as a reporter I've been on the receiving end of of of mother getting angry at a question but you didn't see any of that. Today I expected a lot more of that today and I expected. Perhaps a little bit more forceful defense of this investigation what the importance of it was <hes> you heard a little bit of it from him but you didn't hear enough of that. I think to to to flip that. I think for the public I think if you read the report support you see that this is a damning report as far as what the trump campaign did the way they reacted to offers of help from a foreign hostile power. We didn't see enough of that. I think today during this here let me challenge just one thing he set Aaron which is that this was the star witness in fact not the star witness is Don mcgann getting there and actually describing what the president asked him to do the star witness it might. Dan Coats the others in the White House. The prosecutor who did the investigation is not the star witness fact Bob Muller was essentially saying here. I'm done over to you. Do Your Job Congress. Don't subcontract out your investigation into the special counsel. Do this White House. Declares made extremely clear they. They will do everything to make sure a dengue never appears. Thank you very much next Robert Muller expressing fears over campaigns being offered help from Russia. I hope this is not the the <hes> but feared is but I fear it is congressman. Eric Swallow who questioned Muller is out front plus Water Democratic leaders telling their caucus now tonight after that about the possibility of impeachment in the right sheets can take your sleep and your style to the next level with Bollandbranch. The upgrade has never been more affordable every set is crafted from one hundred percent organic cotton they get softer and softer over time that's why they have thousands of five star reviews and even three U._S.. Presidents Have Boll and branch sheets. Try Them for thirty nights and if you don't love them send them back for a full refund. Go to Bollandbranch DOT com today for fifty dollars off your first set of sheets plus free shipping with Promo Code C._N._N.. To Spelled B. O. L. L. Andbranch DOT COM. That's Bollandbranch Dot Com Promo Code C._N._N.. To breaking tonight Robert Mueller with a clear warning and and this may be the most important thing he said today the Russians are attacking now. He told lawmakers that the United States may be at a point where candidates thanks to what just happened actually embrace support having foreign influence in American elections. I hope this is not the nor the new normal but I fear is that you find evidence suggests they'll try to do this again. All right wasn't the single attempt to they're doing it as we sit here and they expect to do it. During the next campaign now Democratic Congressman Eric Swale of California sits on both the House intelligence and Judiciary Committee so you Congressman Questioned Muller twice today one of those responses to you. I hope this is not the new normal but I fear it is and then to your colleague. Congressman heard they're doing it. As we sit here was your reaction to that. It's pretty hair-raising Aaron and whether you're Republican defending the president or Democrat wanting this president to be held accountable. We should all be worried that in future elections whether it's Russia other countries who have similar capabilities that this could create a mess of our democracy and I don't know how how many elections we can weather something like this. That's why I've tried to be a part of investigations but also have written legislation along the way to put a responsibility on candidates to tell the F._B._i.. If they're approached in the way the trump campaign has that legislation will get a vote very soon. It's called duty to report. That's why I wrote bipartisan legislation to have an independent commission. Make recommendations on what we can do just as we did after September eleventh I would like to see more Republicans join that because let's put aside what happened in the last election and just recognize future future elections are at stake so Muller's longtime deputy errands Abilene was sworn in alongside him today in your hearing and look as we all know congressman there were multiple times when <hes> Muller did not seem familiar with a report is et right he tried. I prefer questions to Zebra. He looked to him for help times like this volume two page one your report boldly states. We determine that to make a traditional prosecutorial prosecutorial judgment correct tried to find that citation so you see you know his hand and pen obviously you were there you saw okay. Seventy was the deputy special counsel had day-to-day oversight of the Investigation Muller wanted him to be sworn in and perhaps today we now know why right he is the one who knew this most intimately at the detail level. Did you all a make a mistake. I not asking questions directly. No I don't think so again. Bob Muller led this investigation. The American people deserve to hear from him today but this was act one act to will be all of the witnesses who were invoked today and I think Americans watching this at home who heard Bob Muller's voice for the first time ever in their life probably WanNa now here about Corey Lewandowski and orders that president trump gave him to tell sessions to really limit the investigation. They probably WanNa hear more about the polling data again a presidential campaign yeah in the United States sharing polling data with the Russians. They probably want to learn more about that. So now we gotta bring those witnesses said. Do you think there is an act to and I asked this because now you've had the person in charge and there was so much import put on this testimony and we know the White House is GonNa fight someone like Corey Lewandowski as much as they can but certainly Don mcgann who is crucial right Don mcgann told to do something that would be obstruction of justice by the president the president instructing him to falsify documents. This is according to what <hes> Muller said Don mcgann said Don mcgann is crucial here but the White House is never going to let you guys talk to him right. That's right and that's why I laid out today. How obstructive acts are a conscious of guilt and asked the director I said when people lie I when they tamper with witnesses when they have struck investigations can use that the show a guilty conscious and we are seeing obstruction in real time is the president is not allowing these witnesses to come forward and if you go back to the Nixon impeachment inquiry obstruction of Congress was one of the articles of impeachment and I believe that will be part of our impeachment inquiry when we get there is that he is in real time obstructing congress? Have you heard from any of your colleagues who did not support impeachment prior to today who actually have moved in the direction of impeachment since Miller spoke today yes Lorie trae Han from Massachusetts calls for impeachment <hes> while the hearing was going on in my prediction is that you're going to see more people not where people I don't think anyone's going to say you know what I think. Donald trump should get a Nobel peace prize. Take off the call for impeachment. No it's GonNa get worse for the president as more and more witnesses come in. It's not GonNa get better so let me ask you. Congressman President trump weighed in on muller's performance as you know righty celebrating and saying it was great for him. He also said S.. The Democrats had nothing and now they have less than nothing and I think they're gonNA lose twenty twenty election very big inputting congressional seats because of the path they chose Congressman asked this question to you because you are running for president until recently. You know what it's like on the trail you know that the American public at least to this point have not been as a whole receptive to impeachment proceedings. What what impact will today's hearing have yeah I was laughing because I don't know what less than nothing is? The president described but I did see on the trail that yes Americans care about healthcare Americans care about student alone debt and gun violence but a number of people told me you know what I hate. When Washington says that people outside Washington don't care about what the Russians did and that's Republicans and Democrats because it's about the sanctity of the ballot box and that whether you're Republican or Democrat on election night the result belongs to us because we went and voted and so I think as long as we make this about the future and not dwell too much on the past the American people will be with us consciousness while while thank you thank you and next House Democrats meeting behind enclosed doors with Speaker Pelosi what we're learning about what is being described as robust impeachment discussions? Hey Guys Kayla rooks. Are you a fan of the Yankees you Miss Mariano Rivera well then checkout exclusive Mariano Rivera World Tour Merchandise collection we commemorate the legendary closers hall of fame dear by him out of V._R.. World Tour Dot Com breaking news standing firm House Speaker Nancy Pelosi not budging from her position against impeachment after Robert Muller's testimony. My position has always been whatever decision we made in that regard what have to be done with our strongest possible hand and we still have some some outstanding matters in the courts. It's about the congress the Constitution and the ports and we are fighting the president on in the courts are that was speaker Pelosi and falling Muller's testimony as you heard congressman swallow. I'll say one house Democrat as moved over coming out publicly and support of an impeachment inquiry. That's just one those numbers could change it brings the total number two ninety three sullen Safadi is out front sunlen look. Today's testimony mattered a lot on this this issue <hes> what else did the speaker to say after Muller spoke well Speaker Pelosi Aaron was very clear at her press conference with the committee chairs <hes> she essentially saying look we are going to stay the course we are going to remain on the path that we there have been on of course that path being very deliberate very go take it slow strategy of going plot by plot through these courses of actions almost heard her there. You know argue why she's stain on this core. She said you know look. If we were to get there on impeachment again we need to go in with the strongest possible hand possible and that means she said right now essentially focusing on the next step the court battles ahead and that starts over the next I forty eight hours a restart. I should say tomorrow or Friday. She said that the Judiciary Committee will go to court to seek the grand jury material from the Mullahs report as well as to enforce a subpoena against Don mcgann now moments before she did meet with her entire Democratic or credit caucus and at least one member spoke to especially on the impeachment thing and that's equally as important as to what she did not say today <hes> one memory spoke to said she indicated some openness on impeachment but certainly remains officially unmoved unmoved in her position all right Lynn. Thank you very much. I want to go to our chief political correspondent Dana Bash shopfront now so Dan. Let's start with some new reporting. I know you have on this meeting right. What's going on inside that room? Yes I have along with Maharaja so someone just described what happened. At the press conference before she got to that press conference the Speaker had a an impromptu meeting with her caucus after the end of of the series of hearings today and my new and I are told that there was a robust discussion about impeaching with <hes> with impeachment with member after member pressing the leadership what next what are we going to do now and what was interesting. According to our sources is that although the speaker said we're not there yet she and the judiciary very chairman welcomed <hes> questions and talked in a more detailed way about the potential process going forward one example <hes> Jerry Nadler indicated that possibility would be after the core proceedings when and if they get to this point that all six committees investigating could come up with articles of impeachment the source cautions Tamahu though that that was just an idea. It's not actually being done now but another interesting thing Erin that I was told is that <hes> Nadler was asked by a member whether or not the whole house has to vote on starting the impeachment inquiry in the Judiciary Committee and he said No. He said he has the authority to do that. Why is that interesting because there are a lot of members in the Democratic Caucus? Who are you not so eager to take vote even to start an impeachment inquiry particularly the moderates who helped make the House majority and they could get around that they could potentially start impeachment proceedings is according to Adler in this private meeting without having members take vote so these are the discussions that went on and various sort of frenetic way as soon as these hearings were over today Erin and Dan one thing I want to ask you the speaker said everyone? I thought this was the big moment and and then let's be honest. This was the big moment had this been more clear definitive set of answers from Muller. We might be having a different conversation but her public answer was <hes>. I've got a few more things to look at before we decide. was that a punt or they're a few more specific things well. I think the answer is yes to both of those questions. It was a punt because <hes> it wasn't as clear cut as maybe they would have liked. They didn't really expected to be really clear cut but maybe not as murky as it was but they do have have plans to continue to pursue grand jury proceedings on the was talking about pushing to get Don mcgann the key witness to come before Congress and they don't have the answers to that that yet. They want to check that box before they decided to go forward all right Dana Bash. Thank you very much. Thanks so much to all of you for joining us for our breaking news coverage on this historic testimony day. Our coverage continues here on C._N._N.. With Anderson I am Bill Kristol feeling confused about politics. Who isn't that's right?

President Director Muller Congressman President trump president Democrats muller Robert Muller Bob Muller congress Robert Mueller congressman special counsel White House Russia Speaker Pelosi Aaron Muller Muller Judiciary Committee Director Justice Department
Jeffrey Toobin On The 'Tragedy' Of The Mueller Report

Fresh Air

49:06 min | Last month

Jeffrey Toobin On The 'Tragedy' Of The Mueller Report

"From whyy in Philadelphia. I'm terry gross with fresh air today. How president trump his lawyers and attorney? General. William. Bar outmaneuvered Robert. Muller. We talk with Jeffrey toobin about his new book, True Crimes and misdemeanors. The investigation of Donald. Trump it's about how trump survived the muller investigation and impeachment. Tuban will explain why he thinks Muller failed at his two most important task and how that mind otherwise remarkable work included in the long list of people to been interviewed are members of Muller's team and trump's legal team. Cubans CNN's chief legal analyst and writes about legal issues for the New, Yorker that's coming up on fresh air. Remember the Muller Report. Seems like a long time ago. Doesn't it? How about the impeachment of President? Trump? The Senate trial ended just a few months ago February fifth. But that seems like a long time ago to so much has happened since then but the mullahs report and the House impeachment and Senate trial left us with so many unanswered questions questions. My Guest Jeffrey Toobin is still trying to answer to Ben's new book, True Crimes and misdemeanors. The investigation, of Donald, trump adds new twists and turns to the story of how trump survived the mother investigation and impeachment. The book is based in part on two bids interviews with members of Miller, staff, subjects of and witnesses. In Muller's investigation. Trump's league team, trump administration officials, members of Congress of both parties, Congressional staffers, and defense lawyers to been is a staff writer at the New Yorker and chief legal analyst at CNN. He's written previous books about the Supreme Court the Bill Clinton Monica Lewinsky Scandal and the trial of O. J. Simpson before becoming a journalist Tuban was a lawyer and in the eighties he served on the team of the Special Prosecutor Lawrence Walsh investigating the Reagan administration's Iran Contra arms for hostages affair. Jeffrey toobin. Welcome back to fresh air and congratulations on the book So you write in the book that Robert, Muller's caution and reticence let him to fail at his two most important tasks. Let's take them one at a time. The first is that you say he failed to get an interview with trump. Why would getting an interview with trump have been so important? Trump was the protagonist of this entire affair. He's also a pathological liar and. He is someone who's perspective. You want to call it. That was indispensable to resolving what really went on here, what trump was thinking what his intent was in a legal sense. So the failure to have his voice in the mullahs report, and in Mahler's determinations about what to do with the information he gathered left, I thought a massive hole in the investigation. So in the written questions, trump mostly answered that he didn't recall and he doesn't remember. Do you think it would have been any different? With, a face to face interview. Hugely different I mean the written questions were basically a joke i. mean they were as I. Describe in the book, they were essentially written by the lawyers of the and lawyers doing what lawyers do answered the questions in such ways that they could not be proven false. So there were an abundance of I don't knows I and and I don't remember I can't recalls and the lawyers also had matched up the questions to the record of of emails visits of so that trump couldn't be contradicted with actual known facts so. So the written questions were practically useless what would have been different in oral questions is that trump would have done what he always does, which is lie extravagantly and trump can't help himself. That's how he behaves and his narcissism in his incredible dishonesty when it comes to anything related to his things of importance to him would've come through and that's an indispensable part of the story and we know that because so much of what he said publicly about the Russia matter and later the Ukraine matter was so obviously falls. How to trump's legal team outmaneuver, Robert Miller, and his legal team. Well. This to me was was in many respects, the most interesting part of the of the story and a lot of it has to do. With delay that even though the the the the law doesn't change moment to moment you know high profile political investigations have a momentum or an absence of momentum that really has concrete effects and just to refresh people's Memory Muller became special counsel in May of two, thousand, seventeen. By the end of two, thousand seventeen, he was starting to put pressure on the trump legal team, which was then led by John Dowd a Washington lawyer and Jaysekulow and other Washington lawyer and conservative activist that he wanted an interview and trump in in characteristic. Characteristic fashion publicly had a lot of different things about an interview. It's like, yeah. I'll talk muller I have nothing to hide, but then he he went back on that but but there was it seemed a possibility that there was going to be an actual person to person interview between Mahler and trump even in January of two thousand eighteen. There was a sort of tentative dates set where there. There would be an interview in Camp David at the end of January, but there was never actually a final agreement on that and You know secolo endowed actually disagreed about this dowd was somewhat more confident at least the beginning that trump could handle these questions secular was against it from the beginning. But ultimately, dowd came to the view like a lot of people around trump. Thank. You. Know he lies all the time and you would never WANNA put. Someone who was in effect, a criminal suspect in front of questioners for whom a false statement is a crime. So the January date was canceled. Dowd said, he's he's not going to do it at that point trump who was restless and unhappy about this whole thing effectively fired doubt although doubts that he quit. That created this sort of gap where there was no leader of the defense team and secular. Who was the second in command said, will you give us some time to get organized? This was the time that if Muller really wanted to issue a subpoena, he could have done it because he he had been working for less than a year that case probably could have gotten to the Supreme Court by June, he really could have done it, but but muller who has. Has a certain deference and respect for authority. Especially, the president gave trump time and that allow trump to hire rudy Giuliani, and Giuliani didn't come on until March and he did meet with Muller April, and by that time Giuliani who despite his clownish appearance on television was actually fairly savvy in how he dealt with Mahler and deferred to his colleagues in dealing with Mahler kick. The can further down the road and ultimately by the fall of two thousand eighteen. Giuliani told Muller that trump would only answer written questions take leaving. And Muller ultimately. Took it. At that point. You know he'd been going for a year and a half almost and the momentum for a subpoena and along legal fight, it had dissipated even within the Muller Office. So it was a piece of good lawyering by the defense dowd and then Giuliani that kick. This can so far down the road that Muller felt the too much time had passed and he couldn't start a legal fight over a subpoena. So just to sum up had trump testified in person. Is suspect that he would have either gotten facts wrong or outright lied, and that would have been a crime and that would have changed the whole course. Of, the outcome of the investigation. To be sure and we would have had. More insight into what really happened here. What was he thinking? What did he think about his relationship with Russia? During the twenty sixteen campaign? What? What was he thinking when he was telling James Komi to ease up on the investigation of Michael Flynn or when he was trying to get? Muller fired the issue of trump state of mind. The legal question of what was his intent was central to this case and hearing from him about what his State of mind was. Even if he lied especially, if he lied was crucial and the fact that Muller didn't get, it was a huge hole in his investigation. You also think that this was a turning point for trump once trump won and being able to give written testimony only. It kind of empowered him. How did that change him? Well. There were really two things that went on here in the original defense team. Led from inside the White House by ty Cobb who was who was? A White House lawyer and John Dowd and Jaysekulow, there was an attitude of cooperation with Mahler and even more. So there was. Trump's relative silence about muller people. Forget that that for the first six months of the Mueller investigation or even more from May of two thousand, seventeen to march of two, thousand eighteen. Trump didn't attack muller, but Giuliani's insight was. Once, he took over in the spring of two, thousand eighteen was to turn muller into just another political opponent and trump joined in that effort that trump and Giuliani went after muller as if he were another Democrat in Congress and that energized trump, it energized his base and it gave him a the political confidence to know that this investigation was never going to end up with his departure from office, and that's what Giuliani did above all which was turned the muller investigation into a political matter instead of illegal matter. So you know, you say that Muller made two major mistakes. The first one was failing to get face face testimony from trump trump was able to keep it to written answers were prepared by lawyers. The. Second failure you say is that mother convinced himself wrongly that he had to write a final report that was nearly incomprehensible to ordinary citizens in its legal conclusions, and I'll just read the paragraph that as you point out, most people found very confusing. So here comes because we were determined not to make a traditional prosecutorial judgment. We did not draw ultimate conclusions about the president's conduct. The evidence we obtained about the president's actions and intent present difficult issues that would need to be resolved if we were making a traditional prosecutorial judgment at the same time, if we had confidence after a thorough investigation of the facts that the president clearly did not commit obstruction of justice, we would so state. Based on the facts and the ethical legal standards, we are unable to reach that judgment accordingly while this report does not conclude that the President committed a crime, it also does not exonerate him. To me, the most confusing line is. Where do you start? Confused. So confusing, but this part, especially, if we had confidence after a thorough investigation of the facts that the president clearly did not commit obstruction of justice, we would so state anyways. What did you learn about why? The summation was written in a way that you really have to parse his words and reconstruct sentences in order to understand what he's trying to say. Okay. Let let me just give you the important piece of background. The the there is a Justice Department policy. Many people are now familiar with it that. Began in the Nixon era was reaffirmed in two thousand where it says. Of Justice Policy, it is inappropriate and against our internal procedures for a sitting president to be indicted, he is simply too important to the constitutional system to be a criminal defendant while he is president and Muller who was an employee of the Department of Justice felt obligated to follow that policy, which I happen to think is a correct policy. So an indictment was off limits, he couldn't indict trump, but what muller concluded was because he couldn't indict trump. He also couldn't say trump committed a crime because trump would not have the opportunity to go to court and defend himself that it would be unfair to say he committed a crime because there could never be a trial to resolve the issue. I thought that was ridiculous reasoning I thought it gave trump kind of double benefit for this Justice Department policy, he can't be indicted and you can't even say whether he did he committed a crime and that's the the policy behind that. Nearly incomprehensible paragraph that you read is that we are not reaching a final judgment So we're not gonNA say whether he committed a crime. The tragedy of the Mueller investigation is they did this brilliant investigation proving that Donald? Trump repeatedly obstructed justice far worse than Richard Nixon did in Watergate far worse than Bill Clinton. Clinton did in the Lewinsky matter when when he told the FBI Director, not to investigate Michael Flynn when he tried to get his white, house counsel to fire Muller. When he told his White House canceled to lie about whether he tried to get him to fire Mueller. All of that was agreed, Gis, obstruction of justice. It's all laid out in the Muller report, but then he doesn't finish the job and say what is obvious to any plane leader of the of of the Muller reported who actually knows the law, which is that the President committed crimes repeatedly. What's the point of investigating whether trump committed a crime? If the special prosecutor is unwilling to say that the President committed a crime, if the special prosecutor actually finds that the President committed a crime. Terry. That's what's called a good question. I don't. I don't think there is a point to doing criminal investigation if you can't say what the where the evidence leads and those of us who have practiced criminal law, those of us who've who've had prosecuted obstruction of justice cases, we could read that evidence and see what a strong case it was, but you know who cares what? What a bunch of journalists and lawyers think the point was to know what Muller Thought and Muller pulled this punch. And it. It gave him. It gave the president. A free pass effectively on. The fact that he repeatedly committed obstruction of justice. What. Did Muller's team have to say about the way the final report was written? Well I think for good reason. They were very proud of the factual exposition in the mall report. You know it was A. Bestseller when the Washington Post published it as a book. My sense is. Like Stephen Hawking's a brief history of time. It was probably more purchase than read but. Because it is very dense and very. detailed. But God knows I read it repeatedly and and they should be proud of how they established the extent of the Russian effort to help trump during the two thousand sixteen campaign. You know the social media campaign out of Saint. Petersburg. The Russian military effort to hack the emails and give them the wikileaks distribution. It's remarkable piece of investigation that the smaller did I mean this? Also I think goes tamales character muller was. Deeply. Suspicious and afraid and. Found it deeply distasteful that he became a political figure. He did not want to be the case against trump from the democratic perspective. He didn't like that there were Robert Muller action figures, he didn't like. That there were muller time t shirts, and then he became, you know the the hope and dream of MSNBC. This was not how Muller saw himself and I think there was this institutional resistance which Mahler fostered of becoming a political figure and I think that contributed to his just the fact reports. And his reluctance to draw conclusions I think that was a flawed approach. But I, it comes out of Muller's background as someone who was deeply suspicious of the political process. In your opinion, the Miller report shows that trump committed obstruction of justice not once, but several times are there other crimes that you think muller could have charged trump with? Had it not been for the office of Legal Counsel ruling that you can't indict a sitting president? No. I don't think there are other crimes. I I now another thing muller did. And refrain from doing was investigating trump's background before the presidency, and before his campaign, you know one of the things that has been a source of mystery and curiosity. Throughout In ever since trump declared, his candidacy is why he has this incredible solicitude for Vladimir, Putin why he refuses to criticize Putin why he's so solicitous of Russia and. Many. People have speculated that relates to some sort of financial dealings that trump had or an has. With Russia Muller didn't go there. Muller didn't feel like that was within his jurisdiction. He didn't get trump's tax returns. He didn't explore trump's relationship with Deutsche Bank where he got his financing for his projects. So. I can't say that there is something there that some prosecutor might have found but. When it comes to the Russia relationship during the two thousand sixteen campaign. Know One thing I think we have to be fair about is to say that trump said, no collusion, there was no collusion I mean th, there was no explicit quid pro quo between the Russian government and the trump campaign when the candidate trump. Provided something to the Russians and the Russians provided something to him. What's evident is that trump probably would have done it if he'd had the opportunity, but he didn't, he was just a candidate. He had nothing to give Russia at that point. Had plenty to give him. They did the hacking of the emails. They did the social media campaign. There was the meeting and trump tower of June. Of Two, thousand sixteen. But in none of those cases could muller prove and I, don't think there is anything to prove that there was any sort of meeting of the minds between trump himself and the Russians. Will we need to take a short break here? Let me reintroduce you if you're just joining us. My guest is Jeffrey toobin chief legal analyst for CNN and a staff writer at the New Yorker. His new book is called true. Crimes and misdemeanors the investigation of Donald. Trump. We'll be right back after a short break I'm Terry Gross, and this is fresh air. Support for NPR and the following message come from our sponsor, the House of Role Who's Shaw's sinks have been handcrafted by artisans for over a century operations director, Andy Hamson hopes their sinks, bring something special to every kitchen. We won't talk. Oh, Smithfield, alot of cabin. Pride that we have analysis. You know that that odds-on has spent five years training to give you the best quality thing that he possibly can. It's unique, it has character going to. House next door and say, well, looks identical to my zing. A WON'T TO LEARN MORE VISIT HOUSE OF ROLE DOT COM. Let's get back to my interview with Jeffrey Toobin, a staff writer at the New Yorker and CNN's chief legal analyst, his new book, True Crimes and misdemeanors. The investigation of Donald Trump is about the Mueller investigation and trump's impeachment and how trump managed to survive, both the book is based in part on two bins interviews with members of Muller, staff, subjects of and witnesses in Muller's investigation. Trump's legal team, trump administration officials, members of Congress of both parties, Congressional staffers and defense lawyers do and has been writing about trump since the two thousand, sixteen campaign. One of the things you explore in your book is why Muller didn't get and didn't even ask for trump's financial records. Why didn't he ask for the financial records? It's important to remember that Robert Mueller was a special counsel and an employee of the Department of Justice, not an independent counsel Kenneth Starr and Lawrence Walsh who had an independent legal basis for their investigations. So Muller always had to worry about whether Rod, Rosenstein, who was his supervisor would allow him to expand his investigation and trump's. Financial records would have been outside. His original jurisdiction now could've asked, but he didn't and one reason. He didn't ask in addition to worrying about whether what what Rosenstein would say is that he felt he had enough basis to investigate trump's conduct in two, thousand sixteen. Without going back to the ultimate question of his motives for dealing with Russia. He felt like his desire to win the presidential election and interact with with Russia was enough. That's enough of a motive that trump had. Again, it's a questionable decision because the the ultimate reason for why trump has been. So solicitous of Russia remains somewhat of a mystery to this day and Muller very intentionally did not solve that mystery. I. Am somewhat more sympathetic to that decision than some of some of Muller's other decisions because. It is somewhat different. Is Pretty far from his original jurisdiction, and there was plenty to investigate about his conduct at trump's conduct in two, thousand, sixteen without the financial records. But it's another area where muller just didn't close the deal. You say is in part because Muller was focused on trump's intent more than his motive. I. Don't know that I really even understand the difference between the two That difference is significant legally well. Terry. That's that's a very legitimate question, and there is a difference, but I think it's it's somewhat arcane intent means simply the desire to complete a task you intend to. Rob a bank, and you don't really have to know why some you know someone really robs a bank. You don't need to know that they had an unhappy childhood that they needed money for. You know to to buy a house. Those are questions of motive. Intent is a more narrow concept, and that's all you need to prove in a criminal case. You just need to prove that someone intended to do something. Wrong. You don't need to know why they intended to do something. Wrong. You know most prosecutors liked to do both. They like to get motive and intent. But as a technical legal matter in terms of how a judge instructs the jury, all you need is intent you don't need motive and the Muller prosecutors fell that the issue of trump's finances was really about motive, it wasn't about intent. Where are you able to talk to? Robert. Muller for your book. No. I tried Terry I tried Terry. So did. Look. The last time he spoke publicly was his pretty disastrous testimony. Before. The two House committees and? You, know I think Robert Muller. Aged a lot in this investigation, the seventy two year, old Robert Mueller who was appointed was very different from the seventy four year old Robert Muller who completed this investigation and I think the public saw that in his testimony. So. Mullah Writers report then Attorney General William Bar gets the report before it's released to the press or to the public, and he declares that the report is a total exoneration of the president which it wasn't. I'd say that was very clear on the report. That's the really confusing paragraph. So it was, it was less than clear although. It was not a total exoneration bar offered. You write about this bar offer to share his statement with Muller before saying anything to the Public Muller declined to read it in advance. Why? You. Know it was such an interesting moment. They think. If. We read the statement. Bar? Will. Say. It's Muller, agrees. Muller agrees with what I'm saying. We don't want to be associated with bar statement bar statement is bar statement. It's not our statement. So they say we don't want to read it would they did not anticipate and their tragic failure was they didn't realize how far would distort their report and present it as a gift to Donald Trump, what they also did know. The bars report would be followed by weeks of of the report not being released. So all the public would know was bar statement. What Muller failed to recognize and again I think this was a bigger failure in this investigation is they didn't realize the political dynamics of what they were dealing with. They didn't realize that William Bar Muller had worked with in the George W Herbert Walker Bush administration in the justice. Department had turned into such a political hack someone who was so determined to help donald trump at every opportunity and was willing to distort Muller's words. In a t t to help the president, it didn't even occur muller that Bar was going to behave that way, and that's why he didn't read the statement. It was a tragic mistake. Again, perhaps, somewhat understandable, but not only did it mean that bar statement went out unrefuted? It meant that it went unrefuted for weeks because again, Muller assumed that the report or at least the summaries in the report would be released promptly. But Bar didn't release anything for weeks which allowed the conventional wisdom to harden that Muller found nothing. Okay, let's take another short break here, and then we'll talk some more. If you're just joining us, my guest is Jeffrey Toobin, his new book is called true. And Misdemeanors the investigation of Donald Trump will be right back. This is fresh air. This message comes from Western Governors University WGC. You was a nonprofit university committed to helping you reach your academic goals at an affordable price. They charge a flat rate tuition for every six month term meaning the more courses you complete each term, the more affordable. Your degree becomes offering online bachelors and master's degrees in business it education and nursing learn more about their. Their offerings at WG? You DOT EDU slash fresh air. The past is never passed and every headline has a history. I'M ROB teen. Bluey I'm Rhonda. Data and where the hosts through line NPR's history podcast each week we go back in time to better understand the present bringing lesser known stories and perspectives to surface subscribe and listened to through line from NPR. Let's get back to my interview. With Jeffrey, toobin his new book is called True Crimes and misdemeanors. The investigation of, Donald. Trump, it's about the Muller Investigation and the impeachment and how trump managed to survive both Tuban is a staff writer at the New Yorker and CNN's chief legal analyst. You've been continuing to write about trump and legal issues surrounding the trump administration, and you say that now attorney general bar is basically dismantling the Mueller investigation and you offer Roger Stone as an example and Michael Flynn. It's unprecedented. This has never happened. With, any attorney general in history where he keeps? Cherry. Picking individual cases that Mahler broad. asking. US ATTORNEYS TO CONDUCT SEPARATE REINVESTIGATION Z- of what Muller did, and then undercutting his work including most incredibly of all. Trying to overturn Michael Flynn's. Conviction. Even though Michael. Flynn. Pled guilty. I mean I searched in vain for an example of the Justice Department, undercutting a conviction where a defendant in their own core when their own prosecutors obtained a guilty plea from him. It's one thing to discover new evidence and say, Oh, well, it turns out the guys innocent. He pled guilty. And they still tried to overturn the conviction and they're still trying to. Now the DC circuit is looking at, it is looking at it again, and I thought there was a very revealing moment. When bar testified recently before the House Judiciary Committee where he talked about, Oh, I thought the sentence of of Roger. Stone was excessive. That's why I intervened in that case and overruled the trial prosecutors in the case and a couple of the members of the committee said, can you name any other case in the Justice Department where you intervened to get a lower sentence an in the two years or so that that Barr had been attorney general, he couldn't think of another case. So we intervenes in the only time. To to lower stone sentence, and he tries to get Flynn's guilty plea overturned plus he's he's had John Durham, the US attorney in Connecticut investigating the whole Russia investigation. With the clear instruction to find fault from the start and he he more or less said, he's going to try to release that before the election. I mean the politicization of the Justice Department is such an extraordinary tragedy and really unprecedented. I, mean, even jeff sessions who was hardly A politically neutral character wouldn't have done this Alberto Gonzales who was essentially forced out of office for undue polarization. He didn't do this. It's really grotesque. What would bar has done to that department and to just continue what you refer to with an election coming up. And people really worried about Russian interference in our election. This time around like they did in two, thousand, sixteen, and other. Countries interfering in our election instead of investigating that Boras Investigating the origins of the initial FBI investigation into the ties to trump's campaign and Russian interests. And I think the understanding is the bar is going to try to discredit the FBI to discredit the Muller Investigation and you said the report might be released before the election which would be An October surprise it could be released in a timely way. To. To work in trump's favor. That's a feature, not a bug. The whole focus of the trump administration. Tragically including the Justice Department has all been about getting him reelected. And that's true for this Durham report as well, and it's you know as someone I worked in the Justice Department at a low level I was an assistant us attorney. But I you know I grew up in that culture and there was a real culture in the Justice Department that, yes. The US Attorney's presidential appointees and yes, the attorney general is a presidential appointee, but there is a continuity and an apolitical nature to the work of much of the Justice Department, and that is just vanished a under bar and. It's just painful to watch. The trump administration is now suing some states who have mail in ballots and trump keeps talking about how mail in ballots lead to immense voting fraud. What is William Bars role in those lawsuits? There is a lot of experience in this country with mail in voting whether it's in Colorado or Washington, which has virtually all mail in voting or you know extensive mail in voting in other states, and obviously there is going to be a great deal of it in this election because people don't WanNA stand around a voting booth in the age of covert. Of trying to make that system work and giving states the resources to process, you know a greatly increased number of mail in ballots. They're trying to discredit the process and prevent states from allowing people to vote now. This is somewhat mysterious to me. Because Republicans traditionally have used mail in voting more more than. Democrats. So it may it may be counterproductive politically, but I don't think you have to have a great deal of psychological insight to see the trump is trying to set up a scenario where it appears that he loses, and in fact, may actually lose, but he's looking to either challenge the results or at least disparage the results and say. Even. If he loses that it was only because of fraud. I think a lot of what's going on here is trump trying to find an explanation for. The reason he's losing this election and bar tragically enabling this behavior. Let's take another break here, and then we'll talk some more. If you're just joining us, my guest is Jeffrey Toobin. He's the author of the new book, True Crimes and misdemeanors. The investigation of Donald Trump. We'll talk more after a short break. This is fresh air. This message comes from NPR sponsor Tele. Tele doc gives those dealing with stress anxiety personal or family issues access to licensed therapists by phone or video. Tele Doc is committed to quality confidential therapy from the comfort of your home available seven days a week matching members to therapists, counsellors, and psychiatrists. There is available through most insurance or employers don't lead the APP or visit Tele Doc. Dot Com slash a fresh air today to get started. We're only months away from election day and every week or even every few hours. There's a new twist that could affect who will win the White House to keep up with the latest tune into the NPR politics podcast every day to find out what happened and what it means for the election. Let's get back to my interview with Jeffrey Toobin. His book is called True Crimes and misdemeanors. The investigation of Donald Trump. It's about the Muller Investigation and the impeachment and how trump managed to survive both Dubin is a staff writer at the New Yorker and CNN's chief legal analyst. Jeff I can't let you go without asking you a question about the Supreme Court Ruth Bader. GINSBURG has been in and out of the hospital, she has a recurrence of cancer. What's happening behind the scenes on both sides, Democrats in a panic, and our is the trump administration already looking back to its lists in case she has to withdraw. From her position because of health problems or something even worse happens. Yes. Yes. Yes, there's panic and yes, there are plans to replace her up to the moment that trump leaves office. The date always to keep in mind as February thirteenth a two, thousand and sixteen. That was the day that. Antonin. Scalia died and that afternoon. Mitch McConnell the majority leader of the Senate said it's too late for Barack Obama to replace of Scalia, and we will not hold vote and they. In fact, didn't hold a vote. We are now in August of an election year and McConnell has said very explicitly, we are going to feel any Supreme Court vacancy that comes up up until the last possible minute and according to people I've spoken to if There is a vacancy, the Republicans if they are determined to jam it through could do it in six to eight weeks. So just working backwards. There are still several more months in which the. President trump could fill could fill a possible vacancy. I don't think he could go past January. Between, January January twentieth because they will be a new Senate after after the first of the year. But I think if you look at the determination that Mitch McConnell has put behind. Judicial confirmations of all kinds, but especially, Supreme Court confirmations, and if you look at how much trump believes cultivating his base, which cares deeply about the supreme court is the key to his reelection. They are going to push this It is at all. Feasible. So I think the the possibility of filling in a supreme. Court. Vacancy is is going to continue almost until election day. Has McConnell offered any justification for his apparent hypocrisy? Yes. He has said, well, what was different with Obama was that there was the Senate was controlled by the opposite political party. So that's why. They're there was a you know it's he wasn't allowed to fill the seat, but a Republican president could fill. A seat when there is a Republican majority in the Senate, that's the distinction he draws. Is that a meaningful distinction? Absolutely not? Ridiculous, but it is the analogy or the distinction he has drawn and you know what it really comes down to is. I have the power and I'm GONNA use it. McConnell says. And you know we will see. I mean he doesn't have a lot of room for error. There are only fifty three Republicans in the Senate. The hypocrisy is so agree GIS and so obvious that I don't think it's out of the question that some Republicans might get off the bus. But when you look at how the president has controlled the Republican Party, and if you look at the way McConnell senators in his in his conference have. Fallen into line I, certainly wouldn't bet against Mitch McConnell filling a vacancy in six to eight weeks. If he has the chance. So. Here's another supreme. COURT QUESTION DID Chief Justice John Roberts surprise you in some of his. Decisions at the end of this past term. Surprised the hell out of me. Totally I mean when when you look at Roberts record on abortion, when you at Roberts record on presidential power the the fact that he voted against the president. Position on the abortion cases in Louisiana on the DACA case is just astonishing to me I. I think something is going on with John Roberts I mean I you know. You can look at his background and figure out reasons why he might have voted these way this way in these cases, but I think it's something more profound. I think Roberts is looking at the trump presidency and recoiling at some level. He is not turning into a liberal. He is not turning into Sonia Sotomayor. By any means, but he is someone who I think is saying. The trump, Republican party has gone too far, and I'M NOT GONNA put up with it, and that's not going to apply in every case, and it may not apply if there's a Democratic president in in office next year. But the departures that Roberts has made whether it was the census case or row voting against the president on Daca, or especially, the abortion case strikes me as something more than a simple application of his prior jurisprudence. Jeff, you dedicate your new book. About the investigations of Donald Trump to quote my fellow journalists. I don't think you've done that before I think it's typically dedicated to somebody in particular. So tell us why you dedicated the book to your fellow journalists. Well I'm so glad you noticed that. Terry. That was meaningful for me. This has been a very tough time for journalists. For the most part, it's a difficult time. is in a business sense. There are a lot of newspapers that have struggled and gone out of business, a lot of layoffs. And I don't have a particular answer for that. But this has also been a time when people have not just criticized the results of journalism, but the very essence in motivations and and character of journalism and and yes. That starts with the president, but it's not only the president and I just wanted to be able to add my voice. To those who say journalism matters journalism. Is is a force for good in the world. Journalism is a is a flawed institution, but he's one that is indispensable to a healthy democracy and I'm proud to be a journalist and the dedication was one way of of. Trying to respond to a very difficult business and political climate in which my my. Momma journalists find themselves and certainly CNN where your legal analyst has been attacked repeatedly. By the president. And one thing. I I want to emphasize is In. Many respects, the trump presidency has been golden moment for journalism. I am so proud of my colleagues CNN and how have we have responded and not responded to what the president has done, and the the journalism that has come out in the New, York Times, and the. In? The Washington Post has been so terrific during this period, but there is also a sense of of of peril and sometimes physical peril I. Mean there. There is anger out there stoked by the president that has put a lot of us in physical jeopardy. A lot of us have had very ugly experiences. Relating to. This period in journalism, and that's you to say that's disturbing an understatement. And and my dedication is just a way of. Offering a small measure of moral support to. All of us who tried to do this for a living. Jeffrey Toobin, it has always a pleasure to talk with you. Thank you so much and I wish you and your family. Good health. Youtube Terry. Thanks. Jeffrey. Toobin 's new book is called True Crimes and misdemeanors, the investigation of Donald Trump. Tomorrow on fresh air, my guest will be Andy Crowe Rolling, stones Washington bureau chief. His latest article is about how the trump campaign is trying to suppress voters by blocking states, attempts to expand mail in ballots while also trying to invalidate. State, mail in voting policies, the trump campaign, and the Republican National Committee have filed lawsuits against dates, fighting the expansion of mural and voting crow has investigated who is funding these efforts. Hope you'll join us. Fresh. Air's executive producer is gaining Miller. I- Technical Director and engineer is Audrey Bentham. Our interviews and reviews are produced an edited by any Salad Phyllis Myers Roberta shorrock San brigger Lauren Crandell Heidi Simone, Theresa Madden, challenor. Andrew. Wolfram. Our associate producer of digital media is Molly Seavy Nesper Seth Kelly, directed today show. I'm Terry Gross.

Donald Trump William Bar Muller trump Muller Muller Investigation president Jeffrey toobin CNN Russia Robert Mueller Robert Muller chief legal analyst Terry Gross Mahler Muller Office Justice Department Senate staff writer White House
Which Volume of the Mueller Report are you?

Trumpcast

46:30 min | 1 year ago

Which Volume of the Mueller Report are you?

"Judiciary Committee will come to order molly. We are grateful that you were here to explain your investigation and findings having reviewed you work. I believe anyone else would engage in the conduct. Describing your report would have been criminally prosecuted. You work is vitally important to this committee and the American people because no one is above the law your report for those who've taken the time to study methodical and it is devastating hello and welcome to trump. I'm cast. I'm Virginia Heffernan. There will be a time when trump is not president. Imagine look some days. I'm okay going along trying to fight ash amongst good fight. Keep keep my head in the game and sometimes I feel like I walk into a manhole. I mean maintenance hole and I can't get out racist. Rapists trump is the president the rule of laws in shambles. No one gives us shit about trump's criminal syndicate or the Russians nuking democracy and I'm having nightmares about Gulfstream's and Jeffrey epsteins pedophile island yesterday half of the day was like that I spent the morning in that maintenance hall but then you know anything can give a personal reason to hope and a small crack and then a full ray of light came into my man who I mean maintenance hole yesterday and his name was Adam. Schiff shifts opening address to the House Intelligence Committee brought me to tears of hope. I'm going to try to deliver it to you now to relive some of its power so here's shift talking to Robert Muller Your report for those who've taken the time to study it is methodical and it is devastating for it tells the story of a foreign foreign adversaries sweeping and systematic intervention in a close U._S.. Political election that should be enough to deserve the attention of every American as you well point out but your report tells another story as well for the story of the twenty sixteen presidential the election is also a story about disloyalty to country about greed and about lies. Your investigation determined that the trump campaign including trump himself knew that a foreign power was intervening in our election and welcomed it built Russian meddling into their strategy and used it disloyalty to country those are strong words but how else are we going to describe a presidential campaign which did not inform the authorities of a foreign offer of dirt on their opponent which did not publicly shun it or turn it away but which instead invited it encouraged it and made full use of it that disloyalty may not have been criminal constrained by uncooperative witnesses the destruction of documents and the use of encrypted communications. Your team was not able able to establish each of the elements of the crime of conspiracy beyond a reasonable doubt so not approvable crime in any event but I think maybe something worse. A crime is the violation of a law written by Congress but disloyalty to country country violates the very obligation of citizenship our devotion to a core principle on which our nation was founded that we the people not some foreign power that wishes us ill will decide who shall govern us. That's not whole of Adam shifts speech and yeah you gotta listen to him actually do it to get the full effect. If you WANNA hear it we have put audio from yesterday's hearings with Robert Muller on the feed so tune in my guest today is my political running buddy body Jed sugarman. He's a professor at Fordham Law with a B._A.. J._D. and P._H._d.. In History from Yale His dissertation won a million awards to I didn't even know dissertations could win awards so that's fine for Jed. Maybe my dissertation Tation was just more specialized anyway. Welcome Jed. Thanks for having the deck. This is sort of the perfect day for us to get together. The producer of this show whom you know Melissa Kaplan sent me a prep doc which says Muller Muller Muller Muller Muller Muller something else as topics a through Z. Today so yesterday we heard the you know Sphinx Slake Elusive Robert Muller talk and I think that there were a lot of surprises surprises in the day I don't agree with people calling it a great disappointment or a disaster for Democrats but I think that there were a lot of things that surprised even you and me absolutely I really admire how forthright you've been about being critical Taylor critical of the Muller Report for having some legal errors in it and then we got to see him. Did that change how you thought about the report. I guess my first question Oh gosh that's a great question. I think there was certainly a buzz about the morning and then there was a very different buzz about the afternoon and I think you and I can probably talk about what some of the reasons why the morning in the afternoon just seemed so different I mean it was basically the morning was just so many people on social media and openly on TV worrying about Muller's health yeah and what was remarkable was that by the afternoon he had so much more energy and focus <hes> and command of the material and I I think that's just that's more than just a pep talk that happened between the morning in the afternoon. What I speculate now is that it's worth stepping back and recognizing just how broad and deep this inquiry went and it was too big for any anyone person under any conditions and now it just seems the obvious now is apparent? I mean we should have realized this before but muller focused on some things more than others and you and I is this. We talked about this immediately. After report went public back in late April that we both talked about how Muller was was writing this report as much as a counterintelligence report as it was a prosecutorial document others have made the same observation along the way before the report was ever issued. Yeah I mean Australian Gaba always emphasized this element of the investigation and now it just seems so obvious that that's what muller was more focused on as a veteran of the Cold War and of the Vietnam veteran and hero. He converted the F._B._I.. I from law enforcement to counter terrorism after nine eleven and that signature I mean that is a lot of mental heavy lifting I mean if we pause for a second on his cognitive processes. This is a man who simply has has managed a huge amount of not just detail but deep philosophical thought about the direction of the country the direction of law enforcement the direction of the Department of Justice and he's coming up against the limits of of what we all can understand which is expressed in the report with some confusion around the status of the president visa-free the law and also what he may be in his later daisies almost seventy five can manage and confusion. I just have to frankly say I did find very sad. We want someone to bring clarity and he didn't bring clarity yesterday. Let's put it that way. Yes I mean I would say that he was far clearer and had more command in the afternoon. I will say I have been very critical of the mullahs report. I've spent a lot of my summer writing about the errors and the legal errors enter the factual interpretation errors and I think doc was struck me. I mean exactly how you framed it. Watching in the morning I felt sad and I honestly felt a little bit guilty that I didn't recognize and that's not just about recognizing someone who may be having challenges ages with memory or such it was I think at that moment I also realized that Muller has his name on the report but it was a team effort and it's hard to say that the Muller report made errors when I'm sure at this point I now have to acknowledge gosh that there is the other people focused on other parts of the report in those errors but muller's name gets associated with all of them and given and frankly given how many significant shocking legal errors in this report port. I think it's unfortunate that Muller has to be the name associated with them. We don't know which people on the team made these major legal errors I wanna go to those errors right now to give listeners background because you have written astutely and I think courageously about the errors and in some ways even if Robert Muller turns out to be immortal man he's he's not an invincible God and you know we knew that but it was hard if he was going to speak week for the law on this and the potential with the Republican the balance I wanted him to be just solomonic just infallible and clearly he's a man but one of the things that that suggested to me anyway is that he's also not a conniving party hack who was in the pocket of Hillary Clinton. I mean all the things the Republicans were suggesting seemed ridiculous. There was not just a recessive part right to muller but there's a certain sweetness to you wanted to kind of protect him and he certainly didn't seem like he was out to do something twisted or evil. I mean it. Was this the Republicans nothing could stick to him. I mean if they he called out. Joseph Myth sued one more time. I you know I I was just going to say. Is that really all they have. I mean how many Americans know who Joseph miffed suit is four seven. I mean you know and then suddenly Natalia Holly Investments Guy out there were so many distractions and they ended up against his sweet and slightly daughter and way that lots of us can recognize from eighty year old seventy five year old relatives they looked I thought rabbit that that was very bad for their side. Yes the level of disrespect and animosity that just I just don't know how I would love to know how that played with anybody. In the middle on this I just I imagined imagine that that was all targeted to an audience of one <hes> you know I think these congressmen were when they were <hes> ripping into muller with such disrespect that was planning to trump who they knew he was watching. I think Adam Schiff said something like that that there's a guy down the road he started makes him seem like Java. The hot or smaller or sour on some combination of Java the Hutton Sal Ron seems exact seems to be it seems to be right on that point though Virginia. I do think it's at least worth noting and it's it's it's a valid question that now becomes I think a bigger concern that it that so much of Muller Stature Stature <hes> or so much of the validity of the of the mullahs report was a perception that muller had command over every piece of this team and over every piece of this investigation and so to the extent that there was a perception option that the team have had a variety of political leanings but that Muller would keep them all in line. I think there is a valid talking point or it has to be noted that that impression. And does not survive yesterday. He clearly delegated enormous pieces of the investigation of course he had but I do think it was a win. For the Republican talking points that the Muller team of the quote thirteen angry Democrats. That's never been a fair accusation but to the extent that people had said well but look at Muller the rocked the rock ribs conservative Republican Holden all in line. That image took a big hit it. This episode of trump cast is sponsored by luminary. Get your first two months of access to luminaries premium content for free when you sign up at luminary dot link slash trump cast okay everyone talking about the acts files with David axelrod not acts that awesome Manley Deodorant but David Axelrod the galaxy brain of the Democratic Party in this new podcast axelrod former senior adviser to no less spin president Barack Obama delivers a series of revealing interviews with key players in the political world and luminaries the only place where you can find new episodes of the x-files the luminary APP is free to download and you can use it to listen to thousands of podcasts including the ones you already love like trump cast. Get your first two months of access to luminaries premium content for free when you sign up at luminary dot link slash trump cast yeah. That's Luminary Dot L. I.. N. K. slash trump cast after that it seven ninety nine per month and that's nothing that's luminary dot link slash trump cast for two months a free access luminary <music> dot link slash trump cast cancel anytime terms apply so my buddy Karen Schwartz always says that the new question of are you a Raven Clar slither in person is are you a volume one person or volume two person and are you interested in the the counterintelligence and criminal conspiracy part of the report or the obstruction of justice part of the report so witcher you. I don't think I've ever truly known right. We may have talked about this or maybe I thought about this after we I talked in April. The report came out. I'm volume one person in part because volume one has so much in it in terms of the facts and it is the basis for why we should care about volume to politically I mean we also found out yesterday. Which Volume Person Muller is Muller obviously volume one person and I think also America is a volume one person right? That's interesting because I felt like pop. Culture was all about obstruction direction because you could follow the obstruction of justice case at home that you could see some of it on twitter. A lot of it was reported and the first volume has so many Russian names and also we couldn't do it ourselves the first one that's why I feel like the first part art the part about promotion the part about you know the part about the hack the details about goose for I mean that's the kind of thing that you say. I'm glad we have this investigative body. That stuff is so fascinating and and I'm sorry but as powerful as Franklin Flora David Corden whoever else are none of them could do that kind of reporting oh absolutely I mean also keep in mind volume to where we really shocked by what volume to found I mean we journalists had basically reported most of that that that trump had ordered don began to fire trump and how many times I mean just side note here. How many times did the Judiciary House Judiciary Democrats have to repeat that one allegation I mean it is bad but they went down that rabbit hole a six different times and I'm sorry it was already out in the public sphere before the report came out? No that is not going to move the needle partly because you're sitting there seeing Robert Muller at the table he never got fired. I mean if trump really really wanted to fire muller. He could have done it by tweet he could have done it by. I the trump's many Stephen Miller. You know I mean it. Basically I think America understands that trump has a temper. He is Irascible. He is impulsive and yet nevertheless L._S.. Mueller is sitting there having delivered as report it still criminal but it takes a lot of force out of the claim that this was obstruction of justice when it was so inept and ultimately failed to stop muller or really really inter- I mean I also want to say they're all these conspiracy theories about bar having somehow stopped muller or gotten to Muller and after yesterday I think we just have to say this is muller. Muller Muller wanted to defender report. He submitted he did the job and bar did lots of bad things but I think we need to set aside the conspiracy theories that somehow muller had to write what he did because of external threat I mean he was able to do other things but let me also explain explain why volume one is so important politically. Let me be clear. I think people realize this. You can obstruct justice even if there is no crime of course right obviously and I think volume one shows at least a lot of civil violations that one could also try to hide and cover up but ultimately politically the obstruction in volume to only captures the American imagination. If it's part of a deeper story of criminal conduct that didn't have to be just trump trump. I've argued volume one actually shows even if Muller failed to conclude it that the trump campaign committed crimes and other campaign violations and and that's why volume one I think is important to dig into that and frankly the Democrats just did not do a great job of trying to make volume one get to that stat get to that level and certainly I think it was a major era by the Judiciary Committee to to emphasize volume to obstruction especially given the timing of the day I mean wouldn't have made sense to do volume one and two in the morning in a talk about Russia and then obstruction of have one set up the other and they're let the intelligence committee digging on Russia and trump was a major air. Yes I totally agree with you. Accept that I should just you know get out of shifts face tattooed on me and be done with it but I'm a I'm a fan fan of his and I you know I even went so far as to just post tweet a thread of all of his opening remarks in the second hearing because there was a kind of Lincolnian rhetoric to it. I finally felt like I was able to sort of cry for the public and also for the return of hope that we might do something about it. You know it's interesting when Devon Nunez closed the house investigation into Russian interference that shift had been in charge jeff he wrote a letter that was also heartbreaking to me about it I mean I don't know if everyone feels this way but the reason to end on volume one is that that's what we're looking to the future about so twenty twenty election security I mean this is the nine eleven commission report style part of it right which is like you can object to trump ultimately. This is not political at least to me to some citizens to Adam Schiff. It's that we are under attack. We were under attack and now we HARENDRA attack and that's because we have an incredible whole blown open in our fortress that was blown open from the inside Donald Trump and it has a big red carpet on it but I think it's important first of all. That's not just Adam Schiff. That's Muller cared about Oh yes exactly when he said and all Americans should be concerned with this. I think that's why shift and Muller were so in sync I mean that was sort of a lovely duet when he questioned him in the five minutes and not to get into talking about it as theater because that's been soundly decried when todd and everyone did it. Yesterday I mean the substance of volume one is just jaw-dropping and we know it all happened and now trump I mean he he hasn't even made sounds about election security. Let's take a step back. There is someone else who has at fault for enabling all of the same conduct to recur in Twenty Twenty and that's Robert Muller and company. I mean these are the errors and Robert Mueller had an opportunity to indict Manafort and Gates on Felony Criminal Coordination and the failure to do so plus the report blows open a huge loophole all in campaign finance regulations on opposition research by saying basically it's all covered by the first amendment. Let's dig into this for a minute because if given that muller cares about election security and Russia and let's also say hey muller you and I might agree that one of the perhaps a bigger threat to America than Donald J trump is Vladimir Putin and and general election meddling because trump might lose an election and go away but Putin is going to be with us for who knows how long and this was a lost opportunity by law enforcement official team to lay down the law and the rule of law about campaign coordination and they failed. We've had people speculated Anthony Korean particular on this show that if muller was an indeed doing some kind of counterterrorism roll up or counter intelligence roll up that he really wanted those people really one of the Kremlin and that Manafort for some reason muller seems to be unable to confidently say that Kalim Nick is a spy that works for the Kremlin that promotion head the I._R._A.. Is So close to Putin as to be indistinguishable from the state and so as Darrow Pasta in particular. I think he said something like I am. The state one of the why Muller makes that distinction he was so careful we always says quote ties to Russian intelligence and the extension to that is at some point with manafort close to clinic. We heard about that that relationship yesterday at some point in the investigation I thought why aren't we just investigating the trump campaigns manafort ties because manafort himself represents the right wing part of the Ukraine and the Kremlin and is so close to this and he's on the payroll and he works with Kalinic so he himself seems like a Russian agent agent and you know and a Kremlin agent and why Muller is so reticent and overly cautious about making those connections I mean I don't know if anyone he even did it yesterday just making I we can't say Dera Pasta. Scott is a Kremlin agent. It was a straight up legal air. I mean if you're if you're investigating Paul Manafort and his frame of mind the report states that Rick Gates told Manafort I think Kalinic. Nick is a spy. Let me just take a step back. I mean it was a legal error about how muller failed to indict Manafort for. I think a legal reason and a factual reason the legal reason is the biggest error in volume one which is that and let me take step back when when Muller was appointed by the D._O._J.. The appointment letter explicitly tasked Muller with investigating quote coordination. It's a short letter I mean it was basically investigate. Coordination conspiracy with Russia Asia and then the Muller Report says that <hes> that coordination this is a direct quote here coordination does not have a settle definition in federal criminal law we understood coordination to require an agreement tacit or express and Virginia. That's just flat out wrong with Congress passed the two thousand two statute to regulate campaign finance and and to get rid of loopholes it actually continued the same aim rules from before from the Watergate era and clarified them right so it said the statute says that the campaign finance regulations quote shall not require agreement or formal collaboration to establish coordination Asian and then the Federal Election Commission then followed exactly that direct different congress and said quote coordination means made in cooperation consultation or concert or at the request suggestion of a candidate I e there is no requirement to show agreement so the and furthermore when the Supreme Court reviewed those rules and this is not that long ago two thousand three the Supreme Court first of all said this has been a longstanding outstanding rural from before two thousand two and it's significant because it's really important that expenditures quote made after a wink or not often will be as useful to the candidate as cash and so we have keep in mind this is the legislative branch the executive branch and the Judiciary Branch saying do not require explicit agreement because that allows loopholes and guess yes what Mueller just allowed Manafort and Rick Gates and Donald Trump to use that loophole to coordinate with Russia and with Manafort and gates that they should have been criminally indicted for a campaign crime and imagine if they had done that how volume two on obstruction by trump would have come across differently when he was covering up his campaigns felonies that is my head spinning and especially this expression Lincoln and nod which I think on twitter ah I said reminded me of Michael Cohen saying Mr Trump toxin code and I understand that code this was when he was talking about whether he'd been asked to lie right whether it's perjury had been suborned but let's just acknowledge that volume volume one shows is much more than code or winks or nods yeah. It is direct signals. It's how can we use to get whole manafort's idea that maybe he could have its debts waved if he was good to Derrick Oscar. If the campaign benefited right what's crazy about the mullahs report on that question is that they have manafort nailed on coordination and Manafort says no no no. I wasn't giving them the polling data coordinate I just thought the <hes> the Putin oligarch would wave my debts. Oh so you mean that's a quid pro. Quo sure then you know never mind wouldn't quite safe that that was another thing. He wouldn't quite say there are certainly some frustration that muller that he didn't sternly enough condemn the president's actions but also even the Russians that there was a there's sort of an absence of <hes> righteous indignation from from him that we needed. I don't mean fireworks for the show but just to kind of model for us what the reaction of a Patriot might be to the things they found in the report. Did that bug you look. I came into this with low expectations. Since I mean I've said repeatedly the Democrats were signaling so many times that they were taking a low risk very low reward strategy to have muller simply read the report and I just believe this was going to do nothing and then we then they show up and it turns out that they arranged a beforehand that muller would not be asked to even read the report so then instead of having muller dramatic reading now we have you know the member from the Fifth District of Pennsylvania doing the reading and then muller saying correct that was even worse. We talk about theater. I mean it is actually relevant to talk about how badly the House Judiciary Committee Democrats planned the theater and then executed it was it was really bad. You pointed out to me. They stepped on on each other questions and repeated each other's questions. Didn't they go back. What are they go back to you over and over again mcgann Don mcgann yeah I stopped counting at the six different member of Congress who spent significant amount of time talking about Don mcgann? Was that the plan as I said before you know it's not like Muller was actually fired. Why was done again said more in the morning session than Manafort or Roger Stone? It was a massive strategic error of fundamentally misunderstanding the report and what could have changed I mean I don't think a lot could've happened. That would have given what Muller's approach was given that they knew that approach is coming in. They should have taken a very different approach to highlight the crimes that they would identify part of what I think was affected about. The afternoon was one that Muller what showed much more stamina and focus in command that was I thought very important but also I think we had a new argument for impeachment that came out of the afternoon session. Let me also say I it was also relieved to see some number of Republicans on the House Intelligence Committee take Russia seriously so so let's let's let's just say Muller and and Republicans I think gave us a glimmer that this that that this is something that people on both sides of the I'll care about I but let's see what happens when <hes> when we see this interference in twenty twenty but look there's a there was a big moment in the second in the afternoon session where Congressman Quigley asked Muller Muller if the statue of limitations was going to be a problem because so let's be clear the obstruction of justice and the campaign finance questions those are all federal real crimes and not state crimes and and the statute of limitations is five years and so quickly said you know what happens if the statute of limitations runs and it doesn't run and Muller said I don't know and then against against that you know Muller then I think didn't show a tremendous amount of preparation on this major question <hes> and then quickly said it clearly runs and then he moved on but there are two points that come out of that one is it was was actually Muller's duty to speak more clearly in the report and in the testimony yesterday because of this problem it <hes> because a two-term president could run out the clock and never face prosecution. I mean everyone kept asking couldn't trump the indebted. Couldn't the president indicted after he left office. I'm sorry the answer for a two-term president is no not on these questions from the first campaign and early in the first term mm-hmm because dacha limitations right now runs out the made a massive error on this question it assumed that there's something called quote equitable tolling that allows a judge on his or her own to stop the clock out of fairness the O. L. C. cited no precedence for any judge actually doing that. There's a lot of dicta but as far as I can tell I've done research on this the O. L. C. has never found a precedent tobacco. This assumption and I can't find others have not found any precedent that allows a judge to stop the clock and there's a good reason for that. It's it's <hes> it's important in civil litigation when you have private plaintiffs with low resources to be given a second chance chance if there's been fraud or if there's been some kind of unfairness and they and they couldn't find out that you know this this tort or contract problem had happened. Judges can be generous to a private plaintiff <hes> with limited resources when the clock might might have started running but prosecutors have all the resources in the world. There's no excuse to just let me give prosecutors. <hes> you know an extension like on a on a paper cheaper when they had all the time to do it so when Muller declined to bring an indictment no judge should look at that as as a reason why trump as a defendant should be penalized for Muller and the D._O._J.. On their own having a policy that'd be one thing if they brought an indictment and challenge in court. This episode is sponsored by Stitch Vicks. Get started today at stitch fix dot com slash trump cast and get an extra twenty five percent off when you keep everything in your box if you can describe your look is it casual sophisticated playful mine is batty British pensioner and I am a true actual subscriber to stitch fix and they nail my style however address stitch fix has the expert personal stylus than can help you look your best and I can testify. I love the things that they send for me and somehow just get me get started today at stitch fix dot com slash trump cast fast and get an extra twenty five percent off when you keep everything in your box that stitch fix dot com slash trump cast stitch fix dot com slash trump cast are there other examples bulls. Might there be other examples where someone for whatever reason hadn't immunity from prosecution <hes> I don't know what it could be unfitness to stand trial or they were gonNA coma and so the clock stopped applying common law and not dicta to the the presidency or not regulations that the presidency is we just no precedents. There are examples of where the answer is. You bring an indictment but you delayed trial right so so let me give you two examples where where there it's something of some latitude on this one is sealed indictments right so so the courts allow prosecutor to bring a sealed indictment that maybe the defendant doesn't know that there's a sealed indictment but at least court says look at least they made that step step of coming forward ceiling indictment and usually what comes with that is is some real world awareness of the defendant that they were under investigation but the key thing there is a prosecutor actually went to court and filed a sealed indictment. There's. He's also something called a superseding indictment. So you file the first indictment you find out new charges. Later courts allow a superseding indictment but the key thing that Virginia is at least as a clear factual matter prosecutors went to court and did and here we have no attempt to even indict and it would be unlikely that you'd see any judge but I think very unlikely that you'd see a conservative judiciary invent event a new way to to make a president accountable for criminal conduct in office. I just that's not going to happen so the big picture is that this is a new argument for impeachment because the statue of limitations might need that not only will will a president not ever be indicted if they serve two terms but that muller couldn't even make criminal accusation in a report that means that the only opportunity perhaps for any official legal accusation against a sitting president might be impeachment and that means the Democrats also. Let's be clear if you want to avoid a two-term president running out the clock. One Remedy in the Constitution is impeaching and removing that president so that they can't run out the clock in office but just the act of impeachment or Virginia even just an impeachment inquiry that lays out those accusations and then has committee vote on moving forward on an on inquiry warehouse vote Justin an inquiry that pl- that is the only opportunity if trump serves two terms to ever make a league on a former legal accusation that trump broke the law and it's looking at a trending Hashtag last night impeachment inquiry now not exactly you know hell no we won't go rank and file Democrats and American citizens have been reduced three months after the Mullahs report detailing criminal conduct that federal prosecutors believe would end an ordinary landon ordinary citizen in handcuffs that everyone can see clear as day that there were you know unethical immoral unpatriotic acts in volume one and that there was criminal behavior in volume to that three months ago we didn't impeach. I've sat on the show before was Ben Franklin's alternative to assassination civilized people don't assassinate their leaders. They impeach them. They ask questions it's not it shouldn't be considered some terrifying way that we blow a hole in the constitution. This is the remedy impeachment but anyway not even that we didn't even go to impeachment gently removing the president from his sitting position so that he could be ask certain questions and could be ask questions and he might any he would make it through. It probably like Clinton did so it wasn't that was not a lot to ask and now three months later while all this has percolated with all the deception by bar and everything everything else. We're down to the point of asking for an inquiry. Let me take the other side there because I think first of all the peachable inquiry has enormous legal benefits for winning the litigation that comes next. I'll say award about that but let's also take a step back. I I've been critical of Pelosi but I think it's worthwhile I mean I think it is understandable that she is trying to balance the whole caucus and keep the the house I think she's over emphasizing the importance of keeping control of the house in twenty twenty but I do understand the anxiety about having a full impeachment vote nevertheless and impeachment inquiry in two thousand nineteen. That's a light year. I mean that's a you know that is an eon. If I can use a chronological term as opposed to a distance term it's an eon from November twenty twenty so just having a House vote on an impeachment inquiry would not subject the members of the house to the same kind of pressure. It's just opening up an inquiry but let me be clear about the legal stakes. I think there's a real risk that when the house tries to get tries to subpoena witnesses or tries is to get for example the grand jury information unredacted from the Muller report or tries to get the financial records of the tax returns they could lose all of those claims if they don't attach to some formal impeachment inquiry if we're talking about Raven claw and the other other houses. I don't think I'm a political person by nature and the idea that Democrats want to hold onto power really makes it seem like they put party over country like we've accused so many Republicans of doing so many sort of ordinary German Mitt Romney types of doing and I just don't know ever having never lived in Washington how it seizes your brain so much that you can't lose your seat that you delay on holding the president accountable I I mean I realized that the the people who have the luxury to talk this way or the atom shifts in very blue districts <hes> and you see someone like Katie Hill. I don't know if you saw her statement last night right. She thinks that trump committed crimes. I should say she's in a purple district leaning read that she thinks trump committed crimes but she really wants to wait till the argument is ironclad against him that they have a chance of getting it in the Senate and that sounded exactly like Pelosi and it's possible I think plus even use that word ironclad. It's possible that they really are building a slow but solid case for are you really make it look like finally like they've dotted every I and crossed every T- and when they're ready to go there really ready to go great guns also say I heard earlier today <hes> Jackie Speier and other California India Democrat to she was on M._S._N._B._C. and she said clearly. She said she thinks Pelosi has taken a big step towards an impeachment inquiry one big picture point about impeachment versus. The November. I mean is going to be much better for the country to maximize whatever chances are on November so I only be clear. I think it's really my view is that the politics dictate making the legal case stronger to get the tax returns to get the financial records. Here's here's the problem imagine. Let's just imagine that there is a party X.. Chair in charge of the House of Representatives and Party X. has a has a committee chair that says we want <music> all of of A._B._M._C.'s tax returns and it just so happens A._B._M._C.'s our presidential candidates for party y the opposite party. We would not simply say that any time a party is in control of the House of Representatives they should be able to selectively and in a highly partisan vindictive way release all the tax returns of just the people of the opposing party right so I think it's valid to say well. This is also in the wake so it's it's valid to say that before you before courts should be allowing politicians to get subpoenas they should require them to share their real real reasons for their investigations and so far this is the legal problem the litigation for the tax returns of voids talking about high crimes and misdemeanors. It's just about other things like oversight and keep been mind. Supreme Court just ruled in the census case roadshow right about the pretexts about the census citizenship questions versus the real reasons the Supreme Court just made eight a major move to require the executive branch to give real reasons and not pretexts now it turns out the real reason was racist right yes but that's not just a we have we have requirements are our Congress. People take an oath to faithfully execute and faithfully execute requires good faith. The president takes an oath to take care of the laws or faithfully execute. I think it's an enormous risk for the Democrats to go to court with subpoenas for Don mcgann or or for other witnesses and for financial records and for tax returns giving what are clearly pretextual reasons when there's also a political reason and so we want to get worried about officials using partisan motivations nations that they hide with pretexts and impeachment inquiry that is very very very shrewd and I hadn't thought of it that way and you're exactly right and one thing that's been interesting to see happen on the trump side has been. He may have been down to a C team team or D._T._M.. Backbenchers lawyers. We're always told he can't get anyone to work for him. And now he's gotta be down to some kind of W team in the form of this laughable what countersuit or something his team saying Amy yes taxes now and the reason they cite this crazy tautology that trump himself and trump bites and his surrogates and now his legal team uses is the fact that America Erica voted for trump never mind America didn't vote for trump but you know seventy thousand people and strategic counties voted for trump <hes> and got him in office on the through the electric college means that they they think it's fine but he didn't show his taxes because of the whims of the crazy the American people you know who are just like in a right wing frenzy right now and and or are not in fact represented hit by the relatively small margin that trump the small small margin that trump won the election by and also the fact that you vote for someone meaning that you approve of their every move and the fact that people wims ICAL watchers watchers of Reality T._v.. Approve of your moves doesn't mean that their legal so what's crazy is just political language used to back. I mean just everything being pretextual. I mean just come on. Can't they drag out some single. Oh thing saying you know justifying. They couldn't justify the Muslim ban. We all knew it's a Muslim ban but they could sammy pretend but that was a longtime ago now. But what I'm telling you is that there are smarter people who are out in the academy who are not just maybe trump's lawyers wrote a bad brief but there will be an amicus brief out there and it will be a valid argument in fact. I know I know the Conservatives and the rule of law people who will in good faith safe right the argument and they will be right that members of Congress should not go to court with bad faith arguments and win a you know what Virginia I might even sign that any brief my guest has been jed sugarman and he's a professor at Fordham law school. Thanks for joining me dead wonderful Dr Virginia. That's it for today's show. What did you think get them? Not Awkward redesigned new coq twitter and let us now. I'm at page eighty eight. The show is at real trump cast and while you're on a roll go over to slay dot com slash trump cast plus become as late plus member. Today is your day to do it. Plus members get all of slates podcasts AD free for only.

Robert Muller Muller Muller Muller Muller Mu Muller Donald J trump president Democrats trump Adam Schiff Virginia Muller Stature Stature America Jed sugarman Congress Don mcgann Russia mullahs Judiciary Committee Paul Manafort Virginia Heffernan
Mueller asks at last minute to have deputy testify at hearings; Trump is irritated & quizzing allies about expectations; House Judiciary Chair to Mueller hours before hearings: Ignore DOJ letter that testimony must be limited to report; Trump vents ahead

Erin Burnett OutFront

43:50 min | 1 year ago

Mueller asks at last minute to have deputy testify at hearings; Trump is irritated & quizzing allies about expectations; House Judiciary Chair to Mueller hours before hearings: Ignore DOJ letter that testimony must be limited to report; Trump vents ahead

"Thanks for listening to this show and you can let us know what you think about it. At pod thoughts dot com that's pod thoughts dot com and thanks again for listening tired of spending hundreds of dollars for prescription glasses visits any today at Xeni Dot com slash C._N._N.. Out Front next Robert Muller's last minute requests rejected by the House Judiciary Committee hours before his historic testimony what did Muller One plus President Trump on the offense personally attacking the special counsel as we learn new details about what trump's thinking tonight and the president reportedly coming to the age of an alleged Chinese spy. Why is it because of his ties to Mar-a-lago? Let's go good evening. I'm Erin Burnett out front tonight. Muller's his last minute move as we countdown to Robert Muller's testimony now just over thirteen hours away house Democrats are rejecting Muller's last minute request to have his longtime aid sworn into answer questions now look the move would have taken pressure off of Muller allowing him to punt questions frankly that he didn't want to answer to Aaron Sibley now. Erin is a man who oversaw the day to day Russia investigation for twenty two months according to a source with the House Judiciary Committee Zebedee will be allowed to you sit next to muller to advise him but not to answer questions that is muller shop and this last minute curveball requests from Muller is still under discussion at the Intelligence Committee which will also question Muller publicly for several hours tomorrow tomorrow. This drama comes as we're learning president. Trump is irritated. Muller is getting the Bullhorn tomorrow the President today slamming the former special counsel publicly returning to his favorite line of attack this whole which hunters going on shy talk about it for the Russian which went okay first of all it's very bad for our country goes on for years and years no collusion no obstruction they interviewed five hundred hundred people listen to this two thousand five hundred subpoenas. They did everything that collusion no collusion. They have no collusion okay. Let's be clear on really important thing. This was not a witch hunt. Muller's investigation has so far resulted in one hundred ninety nine criminal counts thirty. Seven people in entities have been charged to know most all of them are Russian. Five people have been sentenced to prison. Whatever you make the findings about trump? The Russia investigation was an investigation into an attack on America. It was no witch hunt and to say anything otherwise is wrong. It's wrong for the commander in chief to call it that Maharajas out front live on Capitol Hill and monitor. What were you learning tonight about? How these these two crucial committees are handling Muller's unexpected last minute request for that top aide to be sworn in tomorrow while they're rejecting their request House Judiciary Committee is and the House Intelligence Committee will allow the aid errands to sit alongside the special counsel same with the House Judiciary Committee? He'll be sitting there and Adam Schiff the chairman chairman thousand intelligence committee told US earlier that will be allowed to answer technical questions but he will not shifts view overshadow Bob Muller because after all it is Bob Muller Day but nevertheless Republicans pushed back also on this request underscoring the tensions ahead of tomorrow's very high stakes hearing now moments ago we had a chance to talk to the House Judiciary Committee chairman about his expectations ahead of tomorrow and he believes what Muller needs to do is layout what's in the report in undercut what the Attorney General and the president have been saying my hope for tomorrow so they said before Muller's investigation revealed a lot of conduct by the President <hes> which the American people should be aware of the president and the Attorney General of systematically light to the neck and people that always in that report no they've said no obstruction blues totally automated. All those three statements are not true. It's important that the American people understand what was in that report and then we'll go from there. What's the list of questions? Where do they go from there? Sure I asked the chairman of the committee whether or not he believes it could change the course of the House on impeachment I he said I don't know as we'll do. You Hope it changes the course on impeachment. He says I'm not going to comment and as you know Aaron privately the Judiciary Committee chairman has advocated opening up impeachment inquiry the House Speaker continues to resist that Democrats are still divided over that question so lot riding on tomorrow's hearing about how the House continues to pursue its investigation whether they will open of any formal proceedings against the president and the aftermath of this high states hearing all right monitor. Thank you very much and I wanna go to one of the congressman who will be questioning tomorrow Democrat Sean Patrick Maloney of the House Intelligence Committee. I appreciate your time congressman. So what what is the key question. You plan to ask tomorrow. You've got your few minutes. You've got your your your line of questioning. I'm sure completely set out <hes>. What can you tell me well? I'm going to be listening as well. I think it's very important that director Muller come up here and tell us already found in his own words and the answer the questions that are put to him. I understand he wants to reiterate. What's in the report? We're okay with that. I think that's top of our list to we want people to know what is in this report and we want him to hear it directly from Director Muller and there's a bunch of other questions but I'm going to be listening as well as just getting ready to talk so when when it comes to his top aide surprised by that request and it sounds like from what Maanu saying that <hes> your committee will allow him to answer technical questions and be sworn in Errands Abilene I'm referring to I'm going to defer to the chairman on that question. It's not for me to say but I'm interested in hearing from Director Muller. I think that's what the American people want. I think anything gets in the way of that. He's not going to be helpful all right so today. The Chairman of Your Committee Congressman Adam Schiff also also said this about Muller's testimony and let me play it for your congressman point. I don't know what the impact will of the hearing we'll be. I'm I think very realistic. In My expectations. <hes> people are pretty dug in on not just trump and Russia but they're just dug in on this president <hes> if that appalling display of racism over the last two weeks wasn't enough to move people. Is there anything that Bob Muller say that will is there anything Bob Muller can say tomorrow that would change anything in your view comes for money well respectfully. I'm not sure that's the point I think the point point is used to have the have the findings of this very important investigation set out in a clear concise ways for the American people and the truth we want the truth and we want it from the person who's most qualified to tell us what the evidence says is the truth. That's director spent two years on this. We've got a tremendous national investment on this needs to come up here and answer the questions put to him and I think those questions will reveal that there was very serious improper and unethical conduct by the President President and his campaign and there's a lot of concerns here about the security of our elections about about those issues going forward but the counter intelligence issues who may have been compromised even if they didn't commit crimes those kinds of things that we should be getting at if we're doing our jobs and I mean it. I'm not going to prejudge. The director says but I want him to answer the questions. Fully American public deserves to get the truth. I have to say though you know I've read the report. You've read the report. Even have I understand you could have him quote from the report and a lot of people would learn a a lot because the vast majority of people haven't read report. They have other things to do but even having read the report. I have a lot of questions that that that are not clear in the report. The Bob Muller would have a very strong opinion on that would not require him to violate classified information or executive privilege. Do you think he's going to answer any of them. Because I know you have those kinds of questions two and a lot of other people in the room with you will as well I think he hit the nail on the head. I think a lot of us will be very unsatisfied if all he thinks he's going to do is read from the port because there are read from the report. Excuse me because there are you're very important questions like why didn't the president have to give an in person interview under oath that's covered in the report but there's real questions about why the director let him get away with that well as he said in at thirty five times they wrote his lawyers wrote. I don't recall I don't remember on every single pertinent answer precisely and director himself talks about how those answers were insufficient and incomplete in inadequate. That's exactly the kind of thing we need to drill into because we need to understand whether the president was led off the hook on that and there's a bunch of other the things like that that won't be strictly speaking only what's in the report but that will elaborate or provide clarity for that allow us to make judgments about it. That's what needs to happen in a congressional hearing and that's what the American public needs by the way to be able to understand what their president did when he was running for office in since he's been president today congressman or the president was speaking and obviously he slammed Muller but he also <hes> referencing the whole Muller report and his his decision to do things I suppose including fire Jim Komi that he had the full right to do that. Here's what he said. I have an article to where have the right to do. Whatever I want is president? He's not a king. He's the president is he write about article to know he cannot. You're not commit crimes. He's not above the law. That's our whole constitutional system. The president doesn't understand that he doesn't understand America and whether he whether he thinks he can or not that thank God the framers and the people who wrote the Constitution understood that even when you had a president who felt that way we were going to have institutions and the rule of law that was going to make sure that the democracy was going to win out and in this moment the critical issue is whether people are above the law or not. The president needs to be held accountable for his actions. Director Director Muller needs to answer questions about the report. The American public needs to see it all it shouldn't be withheld it shouldn't be behind closed doors and they need to be given the truth so they can make the proper judgments and the number one judgment is whether this president who thinks himself above the law is fit to continue serving all right well. I appreciate your time Congress Maloney and we'll be curious to see how you come out on that tomorrow's I know you don't get formerly support informal impeachment proceedings. Thank you for your time and next Democrats message for Muller Ignore The justice. Justice Department's demand that he stick to his report does not have to comply with that letter doesn't work for them. He's right but we'll do it or not. Plus as the president grows more irritated over molars upcoming testimony money. We're learning new details about the White House plan for tomorrow and trump's F._B._i.. 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Letter doesn't work for them and that letter asks things that are beyond the the power of the of the agency to ask even. Have you still worked for them out right now. Former Nixon White House counsel John Dean he's testified before the House Judiciary Committee on the Muller Report Carried Cordeiro who also testified before the judiciary committee on the Mullahs report and as a former counsel to the U._S. Assistant Attorney General for National National Security and David priests who briefed then F._B._I.. Director Muller Daily as CIA intelligence officer thank you to all John. Let me start with you unless Bob Muller starts talking about classified information or grand jury information. Is there anything team trump can do if muller said you know what I'm GonNa Listen to Chairman Nadler. I'm a private citizen. I can't say whatever I want to say and I do not have to listen to the D._O._J.. Which says I have to just stay in the report well he certainly we have to stay away from grand jury testimony? That's not because of any department regulation that's Federal Court and federal law under the federal rules criminal procedure precludes from talking about that so there are some areas that even if you did want to go beyond it he can't <hes> as far as staying with report I think it is how artful and thoughtful they are in their questioning which <hes> which is what this is all gonna come down to. I mean because Kerry Look Look Muller was a reluctant witness. We know that he's only there because he was subpoenaed and he asked for this guidance from the Justice Department. You know so people are saying Oh you know they put it out there to put a Mug gag on well he he kinda wanted it. I mean is there any chance that he does more than read from the report <hes> or is he going to answer some of these key questions. I think he'll do more than read from the report. I don't think that every time he's asked a question he's GonNa turn to a page in the report and read a passage from it <hes> although he might certainly refer to particular sections in the report I think he'll answer the questions regarding what the facts are in the report and how the investigation was conducted what I don't think he'll answer is the question question of whether or not if he is an independent prosecutor looked at the facts that are described particularly in the obstruction part in volume two is in his judgment. Would that have been a prosecutable case right. That is an important question question. I think they'll ans- ask it. I don't think that he'll answer that question right. They have to ask it and essense. He can't answer it without going against his entire moral reason for not making a decision but there are many things he cancer which would perhaps be as damning although maybe within the parameters the report David because I guess this you know I know he didn't WanNa testify but but he owns this investigation he spent two years of his life on it. It's called the Muller Report <hes> he cares about it passionately. He complained to the attorney general when the attorney any general summarized it and Muller felt his findings were somehow misrepresented so I guess David my question to you as wouldn't he by that logic try to do as much as you could to answer questions to eliminate so many of the questions that are out there that don't require classified information to be honest about the logic actually goes the other way. He did not put his name on the report putting stamp on it saying this is my report the Muller report the letter that he wrote back to Attorney General Bar was because the findings findings of the report were being mischaracterized. It wasn't because Bob Muller wasn't the central figure in this so I don't think Muller is going to go out there trying to make a case trying to put out there more information in some kind of subtle way or even in and obviously but here I understand. He doesn't WanNa make it about him. I get I mean I'm just saying it is about him even though he doesn't like because it's called the Muller reports the number one bestseller but what I'm saying is what I'm saying is if he cares about it. If it's mischaracterize your misrepresented doesn't he owe it to himself and to us the American American people to explain why to represent it correctly absolutely and what I expect will happen is that the Democrats on the committee's will try to get him to say out loud the things in the report that are the most damning so that there is video of Robert Muller with his credibility credibility and integrity saying these things what I expect the Republicans on the committees to be doing is to be trying to challenge him into mischaracterize the findings of the report and on those issues. I expect Bob Muller to say no that it is not what the report says. I'll read it to you if you can't read it Mr Congressman because this is exactly what it says stop mischaracterizing my report. He may not use those words but I think the tone will be telling that he will want to make sure that the work that he represents from his whole office is actually presented with credibility and accurately to the American people so so John to that effect. You've got ahrends apple sitting next to Bob Muller tomorrow. This was this last minute request right. He was the deputy special counsel. He ran the day to day oversight of the Russia Investigation Gatien <hes> now we understand he won't be allowed to be sworn in by the Judiciary Committee but the Intelligence Committee will allow him according to the Chairman Shift to answer technical questions. Why do you think Muller wants him? There is it to elaborate and give more information or is it to sort of have about a Foia Shield from questions that he would prefer to not to answer himself. It's hard to speculate on precisely what he's got in mind. He may feel more comfortable with somebody who was much more granular in two billion the report and he was he was sort of a big picture guy and then probably made corrections <hes> but he he didn't work up the report in the same kind of detail that his chief aide did and can probably Louis either whispering his ear to refresh his recollection <hes> and I think if the committee is shrewd notwithstanding the fact he's not there as a witness Democrats could certainly ask him a question. <hes> there is no rule of prohibits that so we'll see how that all plays out there you know him are in that is how close is he with more so he has worked and been just a right hand to former director Muller for a number of years going. I'm back to when he was F._B._I.. Director <hes> Aaron himself is a former F._B._i.. Agent with extensive experience in complex worldwide global national security investigations so he is an extremely credible knowledgeable inexperienced person in his own right <hes> I think part of the reason perhaps if I'm gonNA speculate of why <hes> Dr Muller is having him with him is so that there is nothing that he has to take back so oftentimes when senior government officials els testify if they don't owe the answer to a detailed question they might say well. Let me take that back for the record and we'll get back to you congressman in this case. He doesn't want this to continue. He wants this hearing to be the end of it and so I suspect that then if there's a detailed question region <hes> errands Ebola can provide that to him in the moment so <hes> David. Let me let me ask you hear Muller has <hes> President Trump is obviously repeatedly said the Muller report does some things that doesn't do like no collusion no obstruction action and he's been very specific and some of the words he's used like this time special counsel completed its report and found no collusion and no obstruction total exoneration honoration complete vindication. I've been totally Donna rated no collusion Dropkin David. You don't need to go outside the report to just lay out the facts here. He says totally exonerated rated twice. The Mullahs Report says quote while this report does not conclude that the President committed a crime it does not exonerate him all right you only Bob Muller to say that but hearing him say that contrasted with the president the president's words are false ops. Could we have moments that tomorrow is that as far as go is to say okay what the president said he's not true that is a very legitimate question that some members should ask which is your report has been characterized by the attorney general or by the President or by other members as saying this is that in fact what you found in a case like total exoneration there is no way the Robert Muller's going to say yeah. I'll go along with that. He's going to go back to that language in the report listen. Most Americans still haven't read the report. We know that from polls we're trying l'affaire with the report a new cereal podcast to bring the report alive but having Bob Muller say these words and say no the president was not totally exonerated. Let me tell you exactly what we found that that is the kind of thing that will reach people who simply haven't paid attention to all of the discussions. We've been having about this on the air. They'll tune into this and they will see what Robert Mueller himself has to say all right. I appreciate your time all of you. Thank you and next. President trump ramping up his attack on Bob Muller as we learn new details about the White House plan to rebut the historic testimony plus the U._S. and the U._k.. About to be led by two people who may be remarkably similar at least they are according to President President trump this a Briton trump they call them bring trump and people saying that's a good thing. The newsworthy gives you all the day's news in less than ten minutes each weekday and there are stories about politics tech trends business and entertainment but it's more convenient and less depressing than your typical news. I call it fast fair and fun so fast. It's less than ten minutes. It's fair and unbiased. I pulled from a collection of news sources. You get many different perspectives in one place. It's also fun high energy casual and upbeat quickly get informed and get on with your day with the newsworthy search for the newsworthy or go to newsworthy dot com new tonight president trump slamming muller ahead of tomorrow's historic testimony Muller's testified Iran again how many times to two and a half years and actually it started practically from the time. I came down on the escalator. They said you know so he's got good numbers. We better start looking at him right away. Maybe he's dealing with a foreign country of say. What are you talking about? This is not true. We didn't have any numbers at the time plus we know the origins of the investigation instigation as it relates to trump and his campaign those began a year later with George Popadopoulos but this comes as trump himself spent a lot of time on the phone asking AIDS allies. What's Muller GonNa do you Philip is out front at the White House tonight and abby? What are you hearing about? How the president event is feeling and preparing Muller's testimony while Erin the president's annoyance about this whole thing has been palpable and that has really overshadowed any sense of anxiety that he might feel about what Muller might actually say what the president is most irritated about is this prospect that the Muller Investigation which has overshadowed his presidency for two and a half years is coming back and coming back with a vengeance as muller sits down before those committees in Congress tomorrow and testifies defy president trump as you said has been talking to his aides and allies talking to them about this testimony complaining that he can't seem to shake it and then even offering advice about what kinds of questions he would like Republicans to ask on twitter? He suggested all kinds of questions about turning the tables on the investigators asking about the origins of the investigation about Lisa Page and Peter Struck <hes> those two former F._B._i.. Officials who the president has been hammering for months and so you're you're seeing president trump really showing the world that this is something that even though he's tried to say he's going to tune it out. It's something that's occupying space in his brain as for the White House. How are they going to respond writ large they will be taking their cues largely from president trump <hes> some allies or and the president's AIDS are expecting to be able to push back but Aaron? I think you can expect that a lot of what you'll hear from. The White House is going to be some of the same things we've been hearing from them for months. <hes> they are expecting Muller to repeat a lot of the same talking points and so they'll be armed with their own talking points as well all right abby. Thank you very much and now David Gergen C._N._N.. Senior political analyst and former advisor to four U._S.. Presidents and April Ryan our political analyst and White House correspondent for American Urban Radio Networks David Year with me are trumpet scheduled a rally for the night of testimony to drown them out. Take over the Oxygen Fox. News isn't GonNa Cover Muller because I'm on okay but the Muller testimony than was moved by a week trump did not reschedule a rally tomorrow night. He's going to be behind closed doors with Republican. Looking donors not live on T._v.. Hung Out Muller. Did He make a mistake. He'll still have an opportunity to go out and then talk after and he'll do is twitter. He'll do probably do it on the way to an airplane or someplace. He's not going to let this go. I think he's I think so but I listen. I I think the strategy for the Democrats and what serve the country best is is to be very simple about it to go back to the things that that president trump has been saying and bar has been saying attorney Jonathan say misinterpreting spinning the report and a very favorable way toward the president and what's important. How is let's get back to reality and what actually happened in what the team found they can go and say Mr Mueller? The President says there had been no collusion period. What did you find out there was no collusion? That's not what he did. Not Establish a consumer is there was no evidence wasn't sufficient Ovitz approved and criminal court very different than there lines. Did you find no obstruction and the clearly on that one he said no there wasn't a you know he found quite a lot of obstruction and at the end of the day you know it what are we to make of all of this is is in the president someone who has cross lines or as a president someone you know can we trust him on these questions and one last thing is so important and muller. I think has absolutely every reason to come out and say I test here. What what we said before this weeks ago? Since then on the Russian hacking country has done precious little. We are not prepared for it's going to happen. I think that's where he can go beyond the report because what's happened since the report is really important. I like big nothing right in front of April. How is the president going to respond to Miller well? The president is already responding to Muller like Abbie said <hes> the keyword is irritated and that irritation can come in many forms <hes> you know just knowing the president as we see him and we've known him for the past couple of years as president. You know we can expect that the president will make a twitter <hes> rampage <hes> you know expressing his feelings as irritation nation and also you know maybe leading <hes> the question is the Republican questioners and what he wants them to say but but what really is telling right now is that the president wants to move forward he he wants this over and it's not happening sources <hes> very close to high ranking officials who sang that some of this irritation stems from the fact that the this keeps moving on after they basically tabled the <hes> impeachment issue that Al Green Congressman Al Green brought up last week and also today the N. Double A._C._p.. Now this was huge in the president was supposed to come here to Detroit <hes> the N. Double A._C._p.. Came up with a resolution to push for articles of impeachment against this president so this is something that won't die. He's irritated about it. As he wants to move forward he thought it would be over by now and so he thought it would be over but it isn't and so he's trying to discredit muller here he is. I know he's conflicted. He lied. There's a lot of conflicts that he's got a good in the fact that his best friend is calling me but he's got conflicts with me to. He's got big conflicts with me as you know. He wanted the job of the F._B._i.. Director director he didn't get it and we had a business relationship where I said no none of that is true by the way it was muller used to be a member of golf club that was trump's. He didn't use his membership in canceled at. That's what he's talking about. They're a good deal difference. References Democrats could simply take that and ask him two or three questions that come out of that. Did you really want the F._B._I.. Job and if they can get on film here's what the President has said. Here's how muller corrects record powerful that that's going. It'd be more powerful and then gets outside the report to I mean you know April. We're hearing that Democrats. Fear Republicans may try to interrupt and disrupt the hearing right there you know as you say trump's putting his questions out on twitter. He's GonNa make comments. The Judiciary Committee actually had someone play play the role of Congressman Jim Jordan who is a key trump ally during their mock hearing today is trump actually coordinating with these key Republicans if he is not his top officials are talking with with them. <hes> that's something that we know this president can go to his own people and or not just the president but some of his top tier staff and lawyers can go to people who have been interviewed by mullet to say. What did you say believe me? People are trying to find out what's going to happen or would they will say in trying to influence on the hill and that and you hit something Erin <hes> this week here in Detroit. Nancy Pelosi told me just yesterday that she he is concerned about abuse of this this process by Republicans so she's very concerned about this as she's looking for the truth to come out a circus it could turn into a circus and we certainly help it doesn't which would be no one's interesting all right. Thank you both very much. We'll see you of course tomorrow and April. I know you're going to talk to the Twenty Twenty Democrats about the Muller Drama at the End Double A._C._p.. Conference and of course we look forward to hearing all those details of what they tell you thanks and next the president's F._B._I.. Hi Director warning the Russians are still attacking America so what is trump doing about it. Vice Chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee Mark Warner is out front plus the president reportedly trying to protect an alleged Chinese spy because he is a member of mar-a-lago auto remember to create an ad like this one visit pure winning dot com slash C._N._N.. New Tonight Chinese billionaire and member of mar-a-lago accused of being a spy according to a new report in the Miami Miami Herald the businessman Wha- when g has reportedly avoided deportation because trump found out he was a member of his exclusive Florida Klopp mar-a-lago out front now Sarah laskey reporter for the Miami Herald who's been breaking this news and Sarah. I appreciate your time tonight. Okay so <hes> <hes> you know obviously pretty stunning headline here member mar-a-lago Chinese billionaire accused of being a spy and it appears his deportation has been halted what more you learning about his connection to mar-a-lago and the president's involvement so one of the things we should do is sort of tease out the timeline here his his deportation was halted more than a year ago <hes> after the president allegedly found out that he was a member of his South Florida Club. Now we just I found out this past Friday from court filings in New York that a company that he partnered with in the past to do a bit of research a us-based company has accused him of trying to gather Intel. For the Chinese government and so that allegation is what's new. It's unclear federal authorities are acting on that information but when when it comes here to the president's involvement from what you've found Sarah from the time line I it it certainly appears that it's very possible that the the the Chinese government <hes> you know he want him back. <hes> apparently a spy so that is reporting and the president the president gets involved because of mar-a-lago yes and so there are sort of two competing narratives with Mr Guo one is that you know as his former business associates say he could be a spy for the Chinese government and they have presented that case as the other side of this is that Mr has been an outspoken critic of the Chinese government he continues to be so on his facebook page today and he is seeking asylum in the United States and so either way okay. He seems to have strategically placed himself at mar-a-lago <hes>. We don't know how old his membership is only that he's been a member for several years and that yes at one point when the Chinese government was asking for his return that status I did help him avoid deportation. You know pretty stunning to imagine the present United States getting involved with something for for anything like this never mind for the sort of a reason but it comes also serve courses. You've been reporting security at mar a lago under heavy scrutiny anyway. You had the woman who snuck in news now. Maybe a spy <hes> you have Cindy Yang the Florida massage parlor owner who has appeared there many times and with the president many times accused of selling access to trump and his family through mar-a-lago all of this possibly tied back to China. That's right it certainly interesting timing for this news to come out. Is it politically motivated as Mr Guo has suggested maybe <hes> I think we'll know more and obviously we're going to continue following the story <hes> to try to find out what federal authorities do know about Mr Whoa if anything or if he has been caught up in that investigation that you mentioned the ongoing investigation into possible espionage at mar-a-lago which of course has <hes> it seems nice to have some very serious security issues. Thank you very much. I appreciate your time and next the president's F._B._I.. Director says the Russians are attacking America is the president of the United States taking this threat seriously at all now plus president trump's. He's a kindred spirit and Britain's new tough talking prime minister stuff any smart <hes> this a Briton trump the right sheets can take your sleep and your style to the next level with Bollandbranch. The upgrade has never been more affordable every set is crafted from one hundred percent organic cotton they get softer and softer over time that's why they have thousands of five star reviews and even three a U._S.. Presidents Have Boll and branch sheets. Try Them for thirty nights and if you don't love them send them back for a full refund. Go to Bollandbranch DOT com today for fifty dollars off your first set of sheets plus free shipping with Promo Code C._N._N.. To Spelled B. O. L. L. Andbranch DOT COM. That's Bollandbranch Dot Com Promo Code C._N._N.. To new tonight the Russians are attacking American now. The election attacks are not over and that is the warning from the director of the F._B._i.. Right Christopher Ray the Russians are absolutely intent on trying to interfere with our elections through the bear to say that aren't influence. I'll find now senator Mark Warner the vice chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee senator. How big of a threat are the rushing attacks? I think the threat is huge and we have Mr Trump's own F._B._I.. Director is director of National Intelligence Dan Coats. We have the head of the N._S._A.. A national security agency and others saying Russia will be back because they were effective in two thousand sixteen and what is flabbergasting to me is that this president still makes jokes about it with Vladimir Putin when they're g twenty meetings rather than holding them accountable and the fact that we've got a series of bipartisan legislation that we can't get to the floor of the Senate because the majority leader Senator McConnell one allow us to bring it forward so commonsense things like if a a foreign agent tries to interfere there ought to be an obligation to tell the F._B._i.. Or trying to make sure that we have a paper ballot backup for any of our our polling stations or trying to put in place basic rules of the road for social media this should not be partisan but unfortunately this president's on willingness to to grapple with it. We're not as effective as we should be. So to your point I wanNA play with former special counsel Robert Muller said at the end of his public statement at after the release of the report it was it was perhaps the most important line here does were closed by reiterating the central allegation of our indictments that there were multiple systematic efforts to interfere in our election and that allegation deserves the attention of every American Eric at least one American is not seem to take the central allegations seriously here is trump has blamed for the rushing attacks on could also be lots of other people would also could be somebody's sitting on that bid that weighs four four hundred pounds. It might be just a hacker some guy with the two hundred I._Q.. That can't get up in the morning. He also said Senator could be some guy in his home in New Jersey. Does it matter what the President says if the director of the F._B._i.. Is Fighting the rushing attacks or not it matters when the president dismisses and belittles this kind of attack because it sends a signal to a lot of Americans that maybe this is not something that's important at the end of the day the Russians nations supported trump in two thousand sixteen but they're real goal is to divide us as a country and when everyone of the president's own appointees are trying to do their job and the president continues to belittle this just doesn't make our country safe and that's one of the reasons why I hope in prayer that whatever Bob Muller says tomorrow that he reiterates the importance of this national security threat and hopefully will then break down some of the resistance to allow us to bring bipartisan legislation to try to some rules in place so you know I wanna read a section of the Muller report to you. You're familiar with it but the special counsel writes that Russian intelligence <hes> targeted voter registration software and electronic polling polling stations and then goes onto while the investigation identified evidence that the Russians targeted these individuals and entities the office did not investigate further Muller says more than twenty four states were targeted. Millions of Americans compromise now says look we stopped investigating. We handed it off but are you confident senator in this is it possible the Russians now got enough information from all that hacking the ability to actually change election results in this country. I think that in Twenty Eighteen Department of homeland mind security and others we were much better than twenty sixteen but we don't have assurance is we don't have assurance that every state and every polling station has a paper ballot backup God forbid in case we were hacking to we don't have appropriate. I believe controls over the three private companies that control over ninety percent of the voter files because if you really WanNa mess with our election you don't need to change the vote results. If you simply move five thousand folks from once at a precincts to another you will create chaos on election night you certainly will and as we all know the Russians themselves learned this week. <hes> easiest path in is through contractors. Thank you very much Senator Warner. Thank you and next genie most president trump getting the British prime prime minister he always wanted to take is Taylor rooks. Are you a fan of the Yankees you Miss Mariano Rivera well then checkout exclusive Mariano Rivera World Tour Merchandise collection we commemorate rake the legendary closers hall of fame by amount of be our world tour dot com tonight Britain Alexa new prime minister any style. Maybe as wildest trump's here's genus. Here's like Donald Trump. His hair is compared to Donald Trump's. Even Donald Trump lichens him to donald trump this a Briton trump they call them Britain trump and people saying that's a good thing that they like me over there. Boris Johnson Johnson definitely has the thumbs up down though he's more athletic than trump whether he's taking out a ten year old playing rugby or getting stuck on zip line left dangling true he's bad mouth president trump trump stupefying ignorance unfit to hold the office of President. I think Donald trump his his mind but all of that apparently not on trump's mind because he's saying he'll get it done. Boris is good this satirical headline align disagrees Queen Elizabeth moving to Canada the CAP that lives a ten Downing Street was likewise portrayed is packing no. I can't believe they chose him either. Ivanka trump wants posed with Boris Johnson inspiring comparisons to a trump impersonator now she's congratulating him on becoming the next prime minister of the United Kingston hoops Newt Gingrich Describes Moore says Margaret Thatcher with wild wild hair his hairiest moments are being highlighted burning question will Boris Johnson at last comb his hair for his meeting with the clean much as I hate to split hairs on the topic that Donald and forest hairstyles. We're actually opposite the A._p.. Noted that with trump each strand is put in its proper place to give him the look that he wants while Boris favors the slept on look. It's an accident in progress. That's been happening opening for years. That how long have you been cutting your own here as he prepared for the role of Britain's leader reporters noted the hair under control but even if he does comas hair the split screens are multiplying like split Linden's Jenny Moe C. N.. N. New York that that last one was a little bizarre all right. Thank you so much for joining us. Don't forget you can watch out anytime anywhere. You just have to go the C._N._N.. Go and we will see you tomorrow. Of course <hes> testimony begins in front of the House Intelligence Committee in <hes> just thirteen hours from now A._C.. Three sixty begins right now hi. I'm bill kristol feeling confused.

Director Muller president President Trump muller director Bob Muller trump President President Russia Judiciary Committee chairman congressman muller shop special counsel Director Muller Congressman America House Judiciary Committee Robert Muller Muller Daily
The most difficult job Robert Mueller ever had

Retropod

06:11 min | 10 months ago

The most difficult job Robert Mueller ever had

"Hey history lovers. I'm Mike Rosen. Walled with Retro pod. A show about the past rediscovered Robert Muller. Now there's a name you've probably been hearing a lot of special counsel. Robert Muller is a mystery man perhaps the most private public figure in Washington and the Justice Department appointing former. FBI Director Robert Muller's a special council to oversee their investigation into cost coordination between Russia and the trump trump campaign Washington is bracing for the release of Special Counsel Robert Muller's report on the Russia investigation as lives in public public service. Go Muller's has been the right word. Well stressful during a four decade career in Law Enforcement Muller served in many key posts including FBI director in the aftermath of the September eleventh terrorist attacks and of course he just served as special counsel investigating Russian interference in the two thousand sixteen election. One of the most high profile investigations in. US history stressful right. Well I think one of the things that's really important to think about and understand in how he has approached being special counsel is that from Muller's perspective probably this is no more than the third hardest job he's ever had that's Garrett graff. Graf the author of two books about Muller including a new script original e-book called Muller's war if the aftermath of nine eleven and investigating a president were tough graph says. Those jobs weren't nearly as difficult or is life changing as Muller's adventures in the jungles of Vietnam following his graduation from Princeton University. He was a Marine Lieutenant. Robert Swan Swan. Muller third. Muller doesn't speak much about the war but he did in two thousand thirteen during a commencement mincemeat address at William and Mary College as an undergraduate. I had one of the finest role models. I could've asked for an upper class woman. By the name of David Hackett. He was on our nineteen sixty five Lacrosse team. He was not necessarily the best on the team but he was determined and a a natural leader as muller was preparing to graduate he and his friends faced as he put it a decision about how they would respond to the war. We knew that David was in Vietnam serving as platoon commander in the Marine Corps and the spring of sixty seven involuntarily for a second tour of duty but on April twenty ninth as he led his men against a North Vietnamese army contingent. David was killed by a sniper's this bullet just south of the DMZ the death of packet a popular role model to Muller and many other Princeton students did not make muller angry about the war nor did it make him or his friends. Want to avoid it. Muller did what he shaw is the honorable thing. He enlisted to serve his country. The war that he joined in one thousand nine hundred sixty eight was very different different than the one that he had enlisted in in nineteen sixty six thousand nine hundred sixty seven. This was after the offensive. This was at the height of the combat operations and Muller found himself plunged into some of the most severe and fierce fighting that the US ever faced in Vietnam. It wasn't long before Muller found himself leading a platoon of men in brutal combat atop a hill called mutters rich a battle for for which he'd be awarded the Bronze Star for Valor. His unit was rushed in to help rescue in ambushed platoon as they faced more than two hundred rid north. Vietnamese army regulars and Muller's Unit Took withering fire atop mutters Ridge They lost several several members of their platoon to fatally and Muller led his platoon To defend the hill for the better part of eight hours and ultimately rescued two Marines who had been wounded and brought them back to. US Lines Muller wanted to continue. You win the Marines after the war but his wife was opposed to that idea. He went to law school and then into law enforcement. In interviewing those who served serve with an under Lieutenant Muller Graph says he heard the same assessment repeatedly he was seen as a great leader and performed performed heroically literally under fire In Vietnam quiet fiercely determined muller never ever wanted to be the center of attention in fact some of the former Marines who graph interviewed did not know what became of him. He was just just their lieutenant now. He'll almost undoubtedly be remembered for decades to come as an important figure in American history. And if our current political climate endures he'll be remembered as a hero to some in an enemy to others and the incoming fire for Lieutenant Muller it never really ended as he says in no one knows how they will react to being under fire until they're under fire. A Mike Rosenwasser. Thanks for listening for more forgotten. Stories from history visit. Is it Washington Post Dot com slash retro pod.

Lieutenant Muller Law Enforcement Muller Lieutenant Muller Graph Muller Vietnam US David Hackett Mike Rosen North Vietnamese army FBI Robert Swan Swan Special Counsel director shaw Washington Garrett graff Princeton University Washington Lacrosse Mike Rosenwasser
ATC124: Review of Jake Muller Adventures: Unidentified

Audio Theatre Central | Exploring Family Friendly Audio Drama

1:08:37 hr | 1 year ago

ATC124: Review of Jake Muller Adventures: Unidentified

"Your call me with my name is Vinnie Jones and new I'm Dave Arnold your host for focus on the Family Radio and now audio theatre sub draw hi there I'm Johnny Whitaker most folks around that's right all right Roy I think it's your Turn Majesty music's latest federal wow really goodness excellent work there Yeoman's work I just love hearing about new hello welcome audio theatre central this is the show let's all about family friendly audio drama CNN's that are coming around you know it's just like I always get excited oh there's another new show that we need to check oh right especially when it's one that has some of these set to release in spring twenty twenty a ministry called River Cross has created a seven part miniseries called holding esther this audio drama is set Evergreen Michael Schrader and Jd Sutter longtime audio drama fans may recognize some of the voices that will appear in these episodes composer Aaron Fullon announced that he recently perhaps last patch the pirate production has been released the production titled the Final Voyage Continues The adventure from the incredible race and has a runtime of an hour local trauma healing training unquote due to the subject matter this is not recommended for little ears the episodes were written by Kathy Buchanan and Marshall Younger and produced forty four minutes basecamp adventures has released a comic book based on the characters from the Audio Drama Series Issue Number One of the Base Camp Adventures Comic is beautifully illustrated in full he scored an episode of adventures Nazi the episode was written by Marshall Younger and is said to be a nostalgic story for old and new I o fans it is tentatively color and his thirty two pages long recording has begun for Greenhorn tells season one this season we'll have ten episodes of about five to ten minutes in length written by on the continent of Africa and deals with topics of trafficking and exploitation of orphans it is intended to quote equip caregivers of vulnerable children with by Darby Kern which is a name we're quite familiar with involved in heirloom audio productions and also lamplight or theater left behind and kids you of Jake Muller Adventures their first released called unidentified we've got a jam packed newscast in and we really mean it amazing names in the space involved in the you know it's going to be good right exactly absolutely names in the industry we'll also have Kathy Buchanan Marsha younger and Todd Bastide as members of the production team that's it for this lengthy newscast I'm Roy reporting for Audio Theatre and book learner we don't have a real name we have a username I do know that it is female though so and also thanks ladies for stepping up feel free to hit times and a half on this one to get through the news we also have some feedback from easy Antonio di Di Dominic called unidentified which was released summer twenty nineteen and it has a duration of about an hour almost an hour and forty minutes corner has been around the space as a writer for a long time yeah and now he's creating his own show this is the first installment of the series we are here today to talk about Jake Muller so Oh yes I think let's jump into that Jake Muller Adventures created taught busted the team at recruits also developed second series aimed at ministering directly to the orphan children as withholding Esser this program called Judah Bridge I'm Jay Dee and I'm rolling and I'm Andrew this is episode one hundred and twenty four need seek after that many episodes I wouldn't mess up the intro but whatever dressed in jeans and a t-shirt with no footprints leading to her not even her own but getting the girl to the hospital doesn't mean she's out of danger government aid agencies and mysterious men in black are closing in and Jake Muller is beginning to take it personally and he's got a few tricks of his own turn engineered by Nixon Todd Bastide at the gap digital studios in Illinois Sound Design Foley and Dialect Coaching by Mike Touche uh I waited too long to come in there but hey we just run by the seat of our pants initial right well we have ready to go with a little spookier sounding music perfect perfect so as I said this was written by Darby Kern also directed by Derby Jake Muller has been all over the world and seen plenty of strange things but everything he believes his challenge when he finds a girl standing on a frozen lake and Upper Michigan from the moment I heard about this was excited because Darby had explained that this was not geared at a younger he's also a member of the Audio Drama Alliance so we're quite familiar with Mica and he's an ATC listener he has given us feedback over the years time collaborating together to make this brand new thing exactly Mike also did all the post production on the Jake Muller Adventures and yes I was really excited because we you know we've talked about that before that most audio drama that is family friendly or at least dammit graphic right yes older you know high school college or Adult Ages so finally actions to this the very first time I listened to this so there you go join backstage absolutely but you are also familiar with around here he's played some voices on the witnesses audio series as well as the Brinkman Adventures and the music composed by jared deep squall again more familiar names these are people that have been around the space for a long time unidentified you know it's not got a bunch of garbage in it right is aimed at kids and so this was one of the first times I mean the left behind series is not aimed at I wanted to play this trailer now just a little heads up on this for those who have already heard the show now we're GONNA try not to give away any major spoilers as we usually do on the kids but that's the only one that I can really think of off the top of my head besides BBC stuff Roy at is aimed at adults and has version so in case of an actor has changed and then another the name of a character has changed but this will still the scenes are very similar and this will still give you a good idea of how the show sounds so without further ado here is jake more adventures teaser trailer for Terrestrial Life Aliens Nope you don't WanNa think about it before you answer so what's on your mind Jake Pastor do you believe in extra hi this is Linda Audio Book I've got an audio book for this do you use for your real yeah this is my the story line that's not dumbed down for kids or it's not you know I don't know it just I was just excited about it yeah. Jd told me with this next step we have friends that are nudging human evolution forward heard about that relaxed buffer kinda reviews but I did want to mention that this was a trailer that was cut in the early days of production and so some of the things have actually changed in the fire aw and it's enough action to keep you interested every time and conflict and everything yeah so Jake Muller can you tell me what's going on what what do I need to know here okay listen good because I'm not GonNa go through this twice her name is Julian Coochie she left a football party yesterday afternoon and is no no she did what this is a federal issue why because she disappeared yesterday Wilkinson County Mississippi Mississippi that's a thousand Oh wow yeah is right everything that music that the sound affects backeding Oh yeah awesome we will deal with Jake mother when the time is right until then he cannot hurt us as star has foreseen everything that has happened so far it's all unfolding as he and Cheek Murmur Julianne for she has opened her mind to the greater plan we are assimilating preparing for the countless times really just going back yeah because it's perfect like he's like it there's enough in it that you can keep listening to it and get new stuff out of it in left behind and many of our listeners may be familiar she played Liz kids corner there you go never returned home her mother identified the picture ideas so why is the FBI involved this isn't exactly a federal issue is it I mean she did wander onto that lake from Wisconsin is played by Dugan sure Bondi and he's also a name that's been around for a while he was in both the left behind series m. left behind the kids and be about kind of the backstory so once you got the files done listen to right away exactly and in ATC backstage you can hear my initial I was in my thousand okay over a thousand miles in twenty minutes there's no way she could have done I am in complete agreement with you there's no way we're good I'm glad that we agree absolutely else helping don't let Julianne none of your site whatever you do don't lose her the cat talk are these guys we business and and Arianna Rogers is played by skies iskin Julian cormet is Alissa Hatton Peter Cazin very familiar named John this month checked out the boxcar children read alright by a female narrator and so we're listening to it all of a sudden like one of the kids voices yeah and sharing lane was played by Amy Lily who some people may know as she was also in the left behind series she played Hattie Durham all excellent I just don't even know where to start I just want to listen to it again yeah I've listened to this album yeah well since you brought up an audiobook I'm gonNA mentioned one as well some of you may be familiar with the Sugar Creek gang have you ever heard of those Yup that book series SOC- whatever kidnapped us did it with parts made in the USA on this particular vehicle is completely restaurant what time did she leave the party I was very impressed with his acting in this in this audio drama mini always does good in the Brinkmann's by completely different character right right Christian oh I think so you're covered in leaves and youtube paid you'll swamp for the saints game around four o'clock no no that's not possible my nephew and I- founder around four fifteen four twenty there's no time zone change she traveled it's Amy Lilly she she's narrating the audiobook and whatever voices for one of the kids is Liz like straight up that's funny unfortunately my wife does not care for the so we learn in that very beginning in part one that Jake is a like a private consultant so they are working on the publisher's re-releasing audiobook versions of those books and Amy Lily reads those as well Gill Plays Nate Hammo and Randy strew plays FBI agent David Beck Phil Lawlor as Pastor Brian Oh man yeah here's a familiar birth Mr Moore who are you did you enjoy your ride not really but it was nice prolific yeah and I've I mean I think she does such a good job with the character Vallejo yeah and yeah it's so interesting to hear her lupone no way EXCEP- she did so even with real UFO's the deductions taking place what he wanted I'm from Mississippi the final script is changed she comes from Louisiana and she is a a Cajun and so she has a very thick cajun whereas a completely different I mean how do you obviously completely different character and she uses a similar voice which I'm assuming just her regular voice for the character of Sharon consultant and he has a full team and they take care of stuff all over the world because there's a scene where he mentioned a couple of his teammates one is in like in the Middle East and so that's an interesting place to set that I thought that was really interesting Darby to do that and from the trailer you know we hear that the girl had accent which I thought was pretty awesome yeah sounds like my not Shays influence definitely yeah and he obviously says that he was the dialect both metal you know is who's an actor on the Brinkman adventures as well as their sound designer and editor and I don't know what I'll he does for the Brinkman Adventures but listen boxcar children or over but But yeah anyway I that's crazy I did not pick up on that wow that's awesome live in Michigan right and so he's visiting them go on a hunting trip with Peter Yeah that's what I gathered as well okay so that's where the story open I know where people only missed that I totally missed that okay side note real quick rabbit trail we had just this comes out of the speaker as Liz the lizard sounds just what in the world is going on and in in Jake Muller but she's just a great actress you so good and also I just want to throw this out real quick while we're talking about credits of jared we mentioned Jeremy Pascall did the music he also posted about eleven minutes of score highlights on his website we did I did not know that appea- of Michigan which is interesting so I think if I picked up on everything correctly that the pete his nephew and and his Parents Eagle isn't that I wish he had just released hole so yeah until this is basically for parts and since this is not intended for radio now that you hear these little snippets and tidbits of this huge backstory that Jake has right but we don't know anything about it right right and I love somewhere else I can't recall right now where they were you since you've lost to it so many times I know exactly supply us with Muccio Info right right what you know set in twenty five minute block you know so regret on the Yup thing it's great that we're breaking these old which it just opens up the possibility our stories like Oh yeah if you have untapped resources like where could you take this character that Darby has thought this all out and he's got this entire story that makes jake who he is ugly and it still all these past events are still affecting him easiest and like these people that are all into aliens and studying this stuff and he called him cellar dwellers yeah I thought that was pretty funny myself and and that is an interesting area of the country the upper peninsula of Michigan Nuggets. It's like its own world up there really just a Lotta open country up there down there once in my life so I don't know like super intimately but I did have a family that lived in the region for for a while so a bit familiar with it but here's the interesting thing we find out little bits and pieces but he never does give us the whole story right right we know he is loaded with money we find that out which is really cool good yeah one of the things that stood out to me from the very beginning is how much dugan sounds like Townsend call my word I thought the and then another another scene is when Jake is talking with pizza the next day after they find this girl he's at home I can't I can't call up an infant man no but he's based out of Chicago Illinois and it's called Noble Security and but the story opens up in the You and absolutely awesome had Chris fabry as the announcer that dude's voice is so awesome I love it uh of stories about Jason that'd be awesome no kidding I think Jake Muller is probably a little more exciting than Jason actually go on a limb here and say that cultured are you know he didn't say that but he's like a way they speed down they're like Oh wow okay I've been living in a cave somewhere I've been the possibilities are endless right yeah exactly there's at one scene with the FBI agent that I thought was hilarious when they're talking about all these UFO home and they're eating breakfast and whatever and pizzas something about his mom had told him something about Jake and he's like you guys talk about me when I'm not yet and I knew Sharon Lane to look right now I just want to do something to help this girl here sure yeah I get it the whole story by his life yeah yeah might not be such a bad idea by the way Paul Darby is doing it in a way I could get behind a whole series well I know what you went through blevins is my second cousin no kidding small world and you wrote that book about Rescuing Ambassador Blevins Wow thanks for your service wasn't in the army by the time it was working as a private citizen Ah yeah in some ways yeah he's a private citizen like he's not tied to any agency so Jason had restrictions that were had to work within that's true and we're just gonNA dropped into this one scene he's got this history with Arianna he's got this history with Sharon lane that we don't know anything about and then okay so there's this one clip that I wanted to play because it just shows that example of how Darby kind of drift where Jake is talking with the doctor in the hospital after dropping off this girl that he found out in the wilderness hand in this is just an example of what I'm talking about here it's just really out the back story of of Jake without dislike throwing it all at U but he he works at into the dialogue really creative ways but it's never great how does it hey can I ask you something you are the Jake Muller that owns Noble Security Right Oh jerry so he helped with that for sure it because it's a very interesting region of the country as well like that there are very very many dialects Jack Moore is is so that means not a direct parallel but they're very similar characters JC editor right actually very similar yeah it's like if we took Jason like I couldn't get over it I was like this is crazy yeah well I guess if you can't have townsend no it's really good nobody like perfectly huge sections so you're like all right here we go more backstory exactly it's like he works at in so naturally but then he always goes right back into the action exactly and so this is a scene retreated where he did that and all of this before he's even thirty right yeah there was one way that he does you do so good yeah but you know then we find just like straight up I'm like yeah pretty much yeah basically anything well what else did she say yeah and he's like well what do you WanNa know Jake so can I see her let's let her rest for now like I said it's still early he's not a room what that guy with the cameras he was he was in the army at one time yeah and then there's there's something about his in his past about Sharon that he doesn't talk about and so it's just Jamir employees yeah of of waves of speaking down there yeah I text jd idea what's what this girl's voice alley in the world is going on he's like you give us a little bit of a snippet of this whole situation with Sharon and the ambassador and that's by using a dream sequence in part two oh it does two things it gives us a little bit more of that story but it also shows us how this whole situation and what happened is still affecting Jake because episode are throughout this set of episodes are this production several times he speaks with one of his team members called nate and really happened yeah but obviously they dated at some point but that's really all that we learn in this story exactly it's like the perfect mix right you got action romance and at one point Jake Muller is trying to reach the FBI agent and he can't get a hold of him and he says shoot we never do really get much of nate in the story I'm hoping that he will play a role in some of the future productions because he seems like an interesting character is one have a one little gripe pull it out yeah so jake has his team members and throughout the okay I was listening to this with one of my students I had actually picked them up was bringing them to school and we're listening to this in anticipation of reviewing it and in this episode we also hear Mica Touche as the pilot in in that scene. Yeah Yeah I do maybe I don't know if it's like Jake's right hand with with noble security or what but he calls him several times or meets him and there's a part where he's allowed and listen to it very closely and we're looking at each other going that really sound yeah another thing that I thought was absolutely hilarious in part to Ari Calls Jake while he's being chased really I think that's the that's the biggest gripe I have with this whole show yeah we could probably give a recommendation if they're willing to listen clearly but I can totally see what you're saying Yep so I just thought it would be important for us to mention that because when you're choosing words that the character is GonNa Utter in frustration now that's what he said and that's not what it sounded like you said we backed it up three times and turn it up being Follow Jake is being followed by somebody and yet hawks ten he's talking to nate about it and nate makes a joke saying well maybe he thinks you're cute oh but like you said another word that probably wouldn't be contained in a family from the audio drama so if you're taking recommendations maybe find a different word this is probably not a good time yeah I'm running for my life yeah exactly and the whole scene of him jumping off into the river is yeah yeah that was a little unnecessary I could've done without that line like what's the point of that you know but that's frankly yeah well speaking of that so there's a scene after that where he he goes into the bank call man I love it he's stopping wet there was presumably real nice banker whatever but something about those water droplets sounded a little bit off to me I thought maybe it was a little overdone but I thought it was on purpose ah might have a little bit of road noise affects it which a lot of families do listen to Stefan rose ex- right exactly right I've only listened to with ear buds so I've heard it jumping from a carpark now that is a British term for a parking lot but this guy does not have a British accent interest so I thought it was I'm jake and he's GonNa Checking in with somebody back at the base or whatever is going on wherever their headquarters is or whatever but he says something about Jake have to throw that that's right but I I love the intrigue of of the back story with Jake in Ari and again we don't have a clue it was an interesting usage there so maybe darby can enlighten us on that new car the park where you park the car which one yeah is to be funny so I didn't really think about it beyond that I thought it was intentional maybe somebody can enlighten us on that it kind of felt like to me that that listen cautious with one you pick good point valid point good point we in I honestly I thought I even messaged everybody on stock and I was like am I the only person that heard this what's going on here and everybody confirmed at least one a little bit of the sound design there the water droplets hitting the bank floor obviously it was like tot tile but probably like marble floor fine did just stand out to me that's all I'm saying yeah yeah another thing that stood out to me and this is not necessarily a bad thing but maybe it's just a a peak into so good if it entirely like hand in glove it was awesome it had that suspense to it but it was real creepy as well yeah oh it was just amazing so one of my favorite scenes in the entire thing is in part three where Brian Almac the pastor and jake chatting in the hotel and just kind of like and they also use it in Australia so which is very influenced by the British English. IB's Australia so so I don't know but carpet hi is yeah he's an amazing writer right creates all these amazing characters for these different shows he's a fabulous director Amin he talks about it all using scripture and actual scientific research and you know it was really really good yeah but interesting is when you said one of my most favorite that is entirely possible maybe they were doing it for more of a comedic effect or something which if so I I still don't think that should happen in a show like this but we're these bad guys are coming from but when the bags are chatting on the phone so we have one agent who's following call him an agent we don't really know what they are but one guy seen the whole thing my mind was instantly there and then you call the scene Oh really yeah so it's awesome yeah and another reason why is because the music in that scene the Best Burger in the best like food effect sound while talking I've ever heard in my life I was starving Oh and the ribs I'll just like it's just a fantastic yeah but also in part four's where we get Darby's cameo as hank the tow truck driver is eh again this is a nitpicky thing so when you have a show this is done this well it's hard to find not that we're we're looking at this is what can we him in this role it was so good yes perfect it was perfect and that brings us to the part for the final climax here which we going through this whole thing and like all of the scientific facts and stuff yeah but it wasn't like slamming you in the face with all these scientific jargon and stuff it was good just the way that the rip shouldn't be as who are working with at I'm going to put this in air quotes aliens and we're not going to give that away because I think that the way that is laid out in the show it two thumbs way up from me for Oh yeah loved it loved it cannot wait for more I mean this the show is it's phenomenal yet nominal they're not using any third party right now trying to raise money to continue the series if this peaks your interest at all go get this audio drama we're not gonNA give away too much here but it just kind of sounds like we have this huge international group of just crazy Weirdos who are that's good there's a link in the show notes head over to their website Jake Muller Adventures Dot Com and get your copy directly from them that's there rate oh man great sound design and like the back and forth between Jake and the bad guys and everything perfect perfect scene transitions and everything thinks out a great it was pretty hilarious too oh so last episode we talk about Robin Hood which is one of the best audio dramas now we're talking about Jake Miller adventures on identified which is fantastic listener if you ever go and buy any of the stuff that we talk about and there is any way to leave feedback to the producer let them know that you heard about it from ABC using that he would use that term like that is not a North American term. Yeah I thought you were dismissed speaking just now jd in my what are you talking about I did not even think about exactly I didn't either can I just say like the pastor him eating rates may be so hungry word I was like that has got to be yeah it's it's it's hard it's hard to hear it and so it's kind of a perfect storm for especially if you're listening in the car it just we we've seen him direct right and and now owned we knew his pay Dale Jacobs for how many years right exactly this this is his favorite or his new favourite audio theater and then he said he heard about it from eighteen and it was better than he even hoped that's cool so thank you ben and Jake Malone Adventures is worth your money and your time to listen to again Lincoln the show notes so what do you think of the show please leave your message after the tone that actually helps us a lot yeah it lets these producers know that working with us to help spread the word is actually benefiting them so thank you been he said that the Fuddy I'm so glad that he was involved story yes I don't know if he's just like a one time character or not but it just shows how talented view the listeners if you would like to get in touch with US send your emails to feedback at Audio Theatre Central Dot Com comment on the show notes we're always happy to interact not an unsatisfactory we I thought the way things are tied up as much as they could be for this four parter it was really well done oh yeah stuff hello Andrew jd Roy alphabetical order boom. You can't argue with the alphabet I just WanNa say that this is a highly recommend it absolutely and it's just a quick shadow here I wanted to say thank you to been Jackson who I don't recall ever reached who is an avid audio drama enthusiast I love audio drama of all kinds and that's why I think merging them on a platform would be very convenient who knows perhaps together man or woman filled with wisdom this is a female perfect based like I said they stepped up this episode I've had several bits of feed you know there was something I don't know if it was a reverberates on the effect as it drops or something they're just slightly off it didn't fit the scene one hundred bucks they could develop an APP that actually works oh sorry if I blew the speaker on that one oh man I was not out to us at ATC The name didn't didn't ring a bell and I apologize if you have reshot to us before but I saw that he had reviewed this production on the Jake Muller website I've got an email this package for today actually just you male yes it is time for feedback to hear from you summit here because now I'm about to go off on a rant hopefully so does this is great apple just introduced in the point is that accessibility is a very important part of the apple platform there's a lot of folks with various disabilities that use it exclusively because their accessibility able to program an APP or to write an APP that has built in accessibility features from the beginning interesting and so from the perspective of this brain works and things like that are so good that developers can easily implement them and it's very important to the company etcetera so it takes extra effort and work to not there or Syndey text message or give us a call two six two three six eight eight two seven seven zero and by the way all this contacted from it us all right so we have an email here from d d this is in response to our distribution discussion from audio theatre central one uh-huh and fills delivery of hit yeah handed over your okay thanks this like Oh my word it was the screen to the top of the screen that's so annoying who cares for this listener it may be the difference between her being able to use it and not being able to use it and he kind of mentioned us in in his review so nice I mentioned that because I wanted to say thank you to Ben and also I wanted to say to you yeah she's calling you asking him you pick up some builder yeah she has no idea but it's pretty hilarious that just cracked me up and I- produce a show for her where she interviews people who are creating solutions in different disability spaces or people with challenges acid and like in a hotel room and just having some great comfort food yeah it was like Oh man I was starving and the way phil pull that off I was like oh sounds autism or different different things like that in wheelchairs or whatever and the apple accessibility tools are very plug if you're interested in you go jd dot Mi my website but anyway that's not why I brought that up but one of my clients she works in the Disability Space Twenty to one of the best episodes we have every pat ourselves back here so go listen to that before you listen to this hit a nerve in the in the community with this one yeah which was actually kind of funny too yeah it was really good at the ending just crazy like it it's mind blowing right Oh my goodness I'd never clearly different way excellent yeah oh yeah what a great time to be on your is right I mean that is very very true so listener specifically it would be very important to have a well developed APP something that's just slapped together like me and you owe it the interface doesn't go from the bottom audio drama yeah to folks with low side or no site that makes so much sense that it would be very important to them yeah I can I can totally understand that what what an audience they can't watch movies anyway so the world of audio drama is much more important because it's built for listening movies are not built for listening they're built with the idea you know we get annoyed with these little like niggles that we have like why doesn't it auto play and Blah Blah Blah and that's important because there's a lot of listeners like us tomb that'd be important man a bit of romance and and just not a ton but then there's just a whole and we haven't talked about much the whole UFO thing going on dealing with that subject and yeah a couple of years saying they're Andrew Disease One hundred percent correct it's very important those accessibility features and when I I read her email of course it just made me chuckle because the media or whatever or won't or by choice so it makes a lot of sense I would think that audio drama would early should be very big in the community soundscape of what's going on we just kind of skip over that because there's visual media that's okay well what about people who can't enjoy the the drama so this is a very important issue that's all I'm saying we can continue now well actually let's continue I feel I feel actually kind of bad because I've never thought about this before but they pick up on it a little bit because I do freelance audio production for a clients as well not just our own shows is how you review Odyssey I must say please do not go spoiler free whatever you do please don't it's the one show you can go all out on and discuss all the nitty gritty plot the friendly audio dramas made specifically for adults are possible all the family friendly shows I know of are primarily aimed at children which is fine I'm happy to listen it was gonna go this way you get here and it's not wrapped up too fast no it's like perfectly played out lots of things are left open so the show can continue tails I feel it would lose something if you tiptoed around spoilers I'd rather wait the extra months for the in-depth review here's the main point of this email do you think family was thirteen at something called voice control and it's it's not necessarily for blind users they have an voice over thing that that's for that but drama streaming and two that I would say in all likelihood since no one is doing it it probably would be sure and not adoption no no I don't uh-huh with DVD's feedback overall to us as the listeners it seems well and good but could this by any chance turn into a monopoly on audio we've talked about the the as you call it a little niggles that we get the with certain apps which will be named right now but portent for people who are quadriplegics or eggs other kinds of things and that voice control is very important so you're I just wanted to basically language content I mean it as in more mature if that makes any sense thanks for taking the time to read this ABC one of my favorite podcasts Levy guys sincerely d them but I would love to see more directed towards adults or college age students does family friendly by its own nature inherently exclude more adult themes I don't mean adult as yeah yeah exactly exactly oiler no but that is true that is a huge huge point so thank you for bringing that up because we we have heard from several blind folks in recent in recent months exhort listening to ABC and our fans thank you timely yes Mollen behold your wishes Darby Kerns command that he didn't know you're wishing for although they are still quote unquote their target demo is still bad same age group AS Roma's yeah but I think she has a valid point yeah right audio drama exclusively and they would probably enjoy something a little bit focused on more older audiences than Odyssey I've run in so much so that they don't they don't give you any warnings at the beginning yeah they just go into the story Oh that's true yeah what about that yeah and Jonathan Parks getting there thousands of people who do not watch movies and don't desire to go there and we have teenagers who their entertainment media is to especially playing these audio dramas at the school and hearing feedback from kids that are teenagers that they still love Odyssey but a lot of thinking is I think that's terrible mistake because we I know that this isn't like a massive audience okay it's not millions of people but it's probably not an order of hundreds of eighteen that okay so this is an interesting interesting could dying right now is so good because I totally know right not not new I don't know the feeling of jumping off a bridge and running for my life and then having a good dinner but like just being them especially the young men as they get older they get bored with it which I can actually I can understand we got to grow up in those teenage years with Nova Com one is always in the show notes every single time so you miss it when we when we mention it here in the episode you can always hit two shots and see that phone number and email it's about the either not production but the streaming of it in the hosting of it I think so and I don't think that would be bad I think that would actually be good yeah in regards to changing is having nightmares about it right so it's developing the character at the same time as giving the audience a little peek into his history exactly and and it was really really good doc sitting around in a word doc from four some time now and I finally decided to get it together and send it out yeah we agree I'm a legally blind soon to be college student the point so actually her comment is pretty accurate yeah maybe they could all get together and produce a good APP and for us that's just like well that's kind of funny because folks who have low site to know site I can imagine that that would be a huge deal so so I find this to be a kind of enlightening now continuing on with see I didn't listen to it very much you know what got me back into it was the Novikov Saga it was sitting in a parking lot hearing Mr Whittaker Mitch is dead a Robert Mitchell is dead kids corner they're all very high quality yeah but they are geared towards children right maybe this is a larger discussion about do we feel like we just give for years I mean what did we have for all these years we had seen now Gilead Lane yeah we had odyssey we had paws and tales we had the pond we had the person is seeing what's going on on the screen so we can skip the description of the main character yeah so you know or we can skip over sound effects that build an entire that's great yeah that's what I would recommend exactly Jake Miller I would even say that Robin Hood Yeah I would say air theater are they tend to be less for kids right up on teenagers because they're so into visual media to that I say Nay and and down with that idea if that's if that's what if that's what the uh-huh yeah so that's totally different yeah exactly that's one of the things that kept me around I was okay from about twelve to sixteen I was bored with autism needy this might be the difference between her being able to use it and not being able to use so actually putting effort into your APP is probably a good idea okay anyway I'll turn my rant off I will say that some of the new stuff coming out there's no warnings on it and I was blown away I was like whoa they were almost auditor central often peachy. Jd Roy Andrew Minute yesterday I received a letter from Big Band Jake Muller is needed not just important not just like oh that'd be cool but I think it's needed because I feel like maybe the attitude is were just seating the older teenagers Whoa hey what this is odyssey they don't do that kind of thing and so that got me back into it so I think an older focused audio drama like with your source for Families Center Contents Porch Light Family Media Dot com introduce them to Odyssey in a similar way that I was introduced to it they already listen to Odyssey but I can't wait until they're interested enough for me to go back to number one and listen to the entire thing all the way through he likes the big G. Hinchey lamplight or audio dramas but within the first episode he didn't want us the upper end of that sort of Odyssey range yeah and they got older and the things they started going through got more intense as they got older yeah so it makes what happened in the story yeah so there is definitely an attraction there so I think we might be missing something and I'm glad that Darby has kind of clued in on audience yeah kind of especially it started with see they did a better job in my opinion than Odyssey did they started with the main characters being fourteen and twelve they targeted the publishing the YMCA market in books is huge very huge massive yeah so why how can we translate that over to going there they're older you know the youngest kids like fifteen maybe and they're dealing with like some teenage issues all this stuff is so I think the lessons about life and the things that you go through in life at that age I don't know what happened to that and we don't have it anymore it's just eight to twelve period industry yeah like it'd be less sales or yeah I think that could be a factor I don't know that's also you do have to have a market so that's true but I think we're saying that there is a market I'm listening to it when we got to the school he's like Oh man you know the so bummer we sat there for like two minutes and finish the episode or whatever because it grabbed his attention and he wanted to know is the young man I was listening to this audio drama with Jake Miller on the way into school is seventeen and he's not I mean he likes Odyssey but it's not really his thing anymore it's been I think it's been needed yeah yeah I would agree clued in yeah speaking of clues like the thirty nine clues that's got that same audience right he right yeah I think so too if we can if they can figure out how to tap into it and I think Darby's well on his way to doing yeah with district muller us to to really like Odyssey there's already people who are who are of that age but they do a fair job of keeping the adults in in it but I think that there needs to be more of a man radio you know that's the that's the thing yeah and I don't have an answer necessarily but I mean yeah it's it's tough yeah and the new Jonathan Park stuff I think is is six of what happened to Donna being sixteen and having a lesson about modesty what happened to Jimmy being fourteen and having yeah that's GonNa be fun yeah right now they're still a little too young we just listened to an episode here there but right now there's kind of a gap as as I get old enough to have children who are old should I like that yeah yeah they've got a good start in reaching the way market idea personally and I know odyssey made an intentional decision but I think ah so and is it because that once you get older the parents are not really buying them for the kids anymore and so they they don't even really touch those kinds of things very much anymore jail did it exactly they let the kids age and and I think at least one family like the parkers you know sense and they brought in romance when she turned sixteen or something like that it's like okay that makes a lot of sides actually so this this is a good point because to draw a parallel to some buck but I don't know it seems like the focus has shifted more to just the twelve year old there's a lot less of the other maybe we're probably outliers somewhat I know there's a lot of people our age that still listen odyssey insurance joy it and who are having children now and I can't wait until my girls are old enough that I can onto lies it's it's there now we are doing what we can to get the word out by audience can find that right the right people to connect to yes case in point but when they got past that and started to get into the story many of them loved especially the young men again especially the young men are going to keep emphasizing that because keep rotating and other families do whatever but let Matthew get older letter Livia get older start dealing with some of those things again well I guess maybe they are starting to again because we do have jobs so I feel like there is a need to try to tap into that more yeah well it sounds like we have another discussion episode where we could just go is to piece of feedback is

Andrew jd Roy Jake Muller Jake Vinnie Jones Johnny Whitaker Dave Arnold Roy Jake Malone Jd Roy Andrew IB Jackson Audio Theatre writer Australia Dale Jacobs Lincoln ben One hundred percent forty four minutes twenty five minute