10 Episode results for "mr blanchette"
Devil in the Details?
"Welcome to this week's episode of Blue Skies Strategy Groups Canadian podcast. What you need to know about this speak in Canadian politics? I'm Alison Fair and joining me this week. My colleagues Jeff Turner Camera Hallstrom and Neil Brodie Happy Friday everyone morning so we finally got all. The kids are back in Ottawa. Back to school and we kicked it off with the speaker of the House. A comments which I think all of us were quite surprised about We Will Miss Jeff Regan and then we had this speech from the Throne Jeff Let's start with you. Your thoughts on the overall overall content of the speech big day in Ottawa. Yesterday it is just Without a partisan hat on it's always really really sort of reassuring reassuring to watch. I think political science terms what we call the peaceful transfer of power in this case. It's transferring from the government to itself but we go through all this pomp and circumstance stance and we have these We have these protocols and these these sort of a royal prerogatives and all these things because it's a stabilizing force and I think it's always nice to step back in kind of appreciate that. Our system of government does a very good job of evening us out and finding compromises and that's a good segue into what what is this throne speech it is. It is a document intended to start the conversation on compromises and I think the biggest surprise at a top line fine. I wouldn't call it a shock but it's just something we weren't expecting as much of was a bit more specificity in terms of a few specific programs or or specific mentions I think this sort of wisdom going in was that the government was willing to Do what most own speeches do which is paint the sort of broad landscape of the challenges and opportunities facing the country in the years ahead and then proposing how to go about solving solving those and a majority contacts like we saw in two thousand fifteen with the throne speech of the incoming Trudeau government. Typically that that is a a rehash of the campaign platform and the game that everybody would play in. That would be. Hey where's that one platform item seems to have been forgotten and is that a signal that it has auden. was there anything forgotten in your point of view in this renting's forgotten because you you just simply couldn't put the liberal platform and the throne speech and pretend to be interested collaborating with other parties. Not because those things are anathema to those parties I think we saw. There's a lot of shared ground in particular with and EP Social the policy the Conservatives have been opening up much ground to share or a bridge to walk across. I don't think we'll get into that wanted. Eat Yup But we found out if if if there was an additional if there was a ninth were that said oil than Mr Blanchette wouldn't voting for this so I I think they struck balance so what. I was surprised to see us that there are a few more items in there which will lead into the budget conversation with those two potential partners. My sense is the government would prefer to work with the the the blocker back while on the budget But whoever wants to stand behind this throne speech as a declaration of values and priorities. I think every party can see some value in this the questions by these values in playing along politically and what we saw. Some people lead flexing last week because they know the block in the past the government is going to fall today but make no mistake. I mean the number one thing going. Into all of twenty twenty years the Conservatives can't go and find election right now they're leaders imperil And they're they're volunteer basin as a campaign organization would be in disarray. They had to go to the polls two months from now. I mean how many people are going to open volunteer. When you're going through internal party divisions the end EP has less than no money And fewer candidates and have had some serious bruising in different parts of the country although they are trying their best to show it the block wants to stick around as long as possible because their newly relevant relevant again so they they have an interest in sticking around to so and the Liberals have proven leader. uh-huh yes that's right exactly Cam Cam. Jeff brought in there. The word compromise is there enough in that throne speech and will allow the MVP to work with the Liberal Party government. Excuse me this is interesting because I saw your eyes go well couple of his comments commitment. This is interesting because I don't take too much talking. What leaders have to say directly after a throne speech a minority? Because let's face facts. It's just a in. The speech is a statement of high minded ideals for most part. Yes most people have a hard time to scream especially in a minority context. You don't want to get too specific specific and we saw that. There wasn't a lot of specificity. They're eating for a what was there wasn't like knock me over the head. I'm stunned to see this. They're kind of specificity. Starting points the for the MVP even Jagmeet Singh reply to it. Was You know what we wanted to see a bit more we want to see action with all deference prince to meet a throne speech is not where you see action. It's an a legislative piece after so this is part of the dance you see is that you can't seem to be too happy with what you've seen. You can't seem seem to be too upset. And where do you go with this. And Yeah one of the spanners in the works. Here is the fact that you have the block who are just it. I find interesting playing the role. The frankly you used to use Lusa play all the time where he just basically said. I know where I am. You know. You don't want to admit it but it reminds me of the debate us to say well. I know I'm not going to be prime minister to have you know the same right. It's the same kind of role where he can just kind of be how he is and you saw that yesterday. He's like well. I'm going to support it. So that forces everyone else to readjust fast and for the PA how you have to be to be pushing for the things you want to see without maybe pushing too hard. That's kind of the fighting this so I think in the end because the block lock isn't going to back the bill back. I think Mcginn little more room to go with but in the end. There's a lot of things in there that that frankly weren't in the liberal platform. I noticed right away. A federal minimum wage age increase. Something that he's called for a long time and and get heckled about over all the time because just how many people fall under the federal minimum wage get there was. You know there are things like that. And they're the MVP has called for. Okay you can say you've gotten something so there's a few more days to the peace of this as well as people need to kind of calm down the rhetoric a group of it. This is not one of these situations that we saw the last minority where you know where there are always opportunities where the tension was much higher. It's just not there right now. So yeah I heard he over like when we were listening to it yesterday and going over the words in the in the speech you You mentioned possibly that The the wording over handguns ends In in there might not get the reaction from the MVP that the Trudeau government might want the the reaction to past memories and experiences. I wish I could forget To be honest let's face it when it comes to hand when it comes to gun legislation nations general there's history and that's long registry in. Everything came with that and obviously the MVP when that was a big issue at the time it wasn't divisive issue within the caucus us and within the membership It's one of the one of those areas of get one of those cleavages. You could hit in if you really wanted to make life difficult on somewhat and when I when I read quote miles first reaction when I heard that then when I read a little more closely I looked exactly what was said. I Pol these enact handgun gun bandstand. EP called for that. This salt style. assault style rifle ban that something and even called for in the past and the idea of a buyback program. I wouldn't be a D- D did Nestle hit on those areas but again in a in a minority in a in a situation you look at these things are closely how might play out and I can see how constituents of certain MP's will react and the pressures that puts on them to act a certain way and just the unintended consequences. That could bring about. But what I will say is this is that Ah we saw this in the Harper government's because obviously the situation was very different. There wasn't a natural dance partner. You saw a lot more. I called poison pills throwing in their something that somebody had to swallow to get through which made it difficult and and created issues like that. You didn't necessarily see that. There is nothing in there that I would look at. Maybe outside of the The handgun ban for the Conservatives as like a poison pill that was. There's no way I could swallow this. So and so neil poison pill Was it specific enough for the conservative because Andrea Sherr when he afterwards was look quite angry once again and not too thrilled with the contents anti the speech I think sometimes people confuse anger with earnestness or or concern You know people people used to Say See that Andrew Scheer was to smiley and now they say too angry while you know what it's one or the other so Perhaps he's just trying to be more serious Listen Fund fundraising for the Conservative Party of Canada was never better than when we were fighting against the long gun registry That's crass politics but it's the truth Millions millions and millions and millions of dollars poured into the Conservative Party Beginning the day after the liberal government brought into effect the long gun registry Whether Mr Trudeau follows through on what he's placed in this In this speech from the throne regarding Firearm policy is is yet to be seen seen But if he starts down that road We will conserve party will be financially ready for the next election sooner than anybody else anybody else. Any other party in Canada With respect to the rest of the speech from the throne you know the old adage used to be the liberals campaign to the left and governed from the right right now. They're showing that. They are campaigning from left and governing even further left There's there's nothing in here that Sorry right there's not much in here. That appeals to a small C conservative voter The casual conservative supporter There's there's some long-overdue stuff concerns about indigenous health For One Easier access to family doctors Mental health standards in the workplace. That these are all good things That any can he can get behind But as far as a Cross Partisan support I'd be surprised if More than twenty conservative showed up for the vote. Or they're all gonNa vote against it one one of the other. So do you think because in watching the political show's afterwards And my F- My friend and former colleague Don Martin said you know in in all the eight years he he's been covering it in myself as well. We've never seen a throne speech that actually gets to specific. So why were the conservatives like Michelle rental looked like. She was about to a cry on television. Why did the curve conservatives and this is maybe a question for all of you if you're on the party in that in reading in the speech are you telling them to go out there and just be so dramatic on? It isn't a good thing for Canadians to see this drama after the throne speech when there's not too much details in the words start with you Neil. The opposition's Role is to oppose so no matter. You Know Mr Mr Trudeau could've come out and said he's going to increase pipeline capacity across the country by four times and He's going to make sure that every every family gets a a firearm subsidy or You know there's going to be roads built between EDMONTON CALGARY RED deer north battle furred and the Conservative Party. Still going to pose it. Because that's what they have to do. characterizing it as people crying overly overly emotional about it is i. Think a bit of a stretch But the the the message from The Liberal Party and Mister Trudeau and and miss freeland since October. Twenty second is we have to listen to all of all Canadians and we have to govern for all Canadians Canadians. And as I said are there. There's things in here that all Canadians can support which are good things but If if if those comments in the last thirty forty days were or going to speak more to conservatives. There's absolutely nothing here that speaks to large a couple of things first off before I came up. Here record. Tell was catching Mr Shears response the response to the throne speech in the House and he started off by talking about how Canadian sent a message. And how the prime minister said he'd heard the message and but then quickly went into but he obviously hasn't heard or taken it to heart of kind of paraphrasing. But then Mr Scherr continued on with commentary metairie which kind of also gave the impression he hadn't taken what happened to heart either because and I understand where he's coming from an agreement politics piece because there absolutely is that having been unofficial opposition piece that you have to you have to oppose. What's to a certain degree? I think the problem is is that it's remembering what it is you're dealing with and the devils come in the details. I think that's why when I watched the MVP response part of my concern was that you're getting too much into what's asking for details from this is not about details right. You're not gonna see that until until you see legislation here that's rising that's for sure it's the same same kind of thought. Well look yes you you need to show the happiest at the same time how far you go down that road and I think wanting to remember all this at everyone is frankly finding their own little battle right. Now and I think that's why for the for the government having a very nondescript throne speech worked because let's face face facts. We know that the Conservatives are going through some leadership challenges right now and let's face it the next real big vote outside yesterday. We'll be the budget and we don't know I know what the state of the conservative leadership will be at that point and that and that to me. That's where the rubber really starts to hit the road on this. But in the meantime it's one of these things where it's like. Look there's some there. There are things in that speech that I could easily see turning hard right on the on the MVP right away said about like Jeff made the point that the word toil was conspicuously absent but there was language is very clear about getting resources to market which means pipelines. We know that so what happens when and that actually starts hit the road and something extra Ford what's the MVP going to do or when it comes to the implementation like I know I already heard it from a couple new Democrats. The language on Pharma Care it didn't mention universal single payer. So what exactly does this look. Great again. So to me the devil's always in the details and that's where the fight really starts happened. So I I think the opposition parties need to kind of slow the role a little bit here and kind of wait for that piece to come. Jeff hearing the essence of your question. Try to stay contemporaneous with today and yesterday and people are welcome to disagree with me and especially people who may have a different weed. I'm getting this out of the way so that I can so who I can say my piece. which is I think in the risk for Mr Scherr in particular but Mr Singh is also dancing a fine line on this Canadians? Who are watching doing this? Because it's just been such a bruising kind of election campaign political times internationally and nationally are challenging. Canadians are tuned in and generally kind of frustrated with our political process. been so they're watching. I think closer than they may otherwise. And if if if I'm right and people as I said can disagree with it. I kind of see that the Justin Trudeau in the liberal. Government have made that pivot and it was quite a marked pivot two days after the election to kind of put away the really hot white hot rhetoric and and start to fill the role and duty of government as they are as they are entitled and want to do in the the campaign ended right and I think the risk that the conservatives in the end ep are are running right now is since October twenty second and up until today hey and perhaps for some weeks to come. The campaign is very much on like if I can paraphrase all of Andrews here it's like I can't believe thrones shouldn't have my whole platform in it. What the heck right right like? That's just ridiculous. Right and then missing is going on with a number of very specific items that are his platform and he has been telling people that I am here to deliver for you. That's fair there but all of these people are in its minority so we do know that the permanent campaign is an element of a minority government. But these two leaders in particular have been overtly the kind of electoral campaigning in this interim period as if the the full electoral campaign on and I I just I wonder under weather. Canadians are starting to see a difference. Evolving between these sort of opposition parties were continuing on that that higher pitch if I can put it that way rather other than trying to find into camps point the the common ground the working Taylor is GonNa come in twenty twenty. But that's the risk I see and I guess my only caution if I am looking forward and less than service because as I've said before and I believe I don't if they vote for one or two standalone pieces of legislation the next two years like that that is going to be about as much as they do. It's going to have to be right up their alley like a middle class tax cut. I mean if they don't vote for that bill on the premise that it gives does not attack people north of two hundred thousand dollars dollars. That's a pretty awkward political position yourself in. Maybe they'll be shared things around resource sector or other things but legislatively they're not going to be supporting much But on the end EP side they have to work they have to find centerpiece yesterday. They have to find the opposition. Nuts fit on the government bolts the whole the whole thing together because of the whole thing falls apart I would argue. The Liberal Party is in the best position to go into an election today versus everybody else And that's been sustained for a while and so if you're if you're betting the house you better be careful about how far you carry that bluff because if that bluff is called Or you're not willing to bend enough to just make it work The consequences can be big for a party with the MVP especially that actually some very serious consequences because if they went through an election like a month and a half from now they'd be bankrupt. They wouldn't they wouldn't be able to do it. How far's Taylor -sego both three writings your though if this thing were to fall? Apart in January march February we're not going to a campaign campaign the chance to form a government that's our system the G. G. which played us out a little further and something would happen if that ever came to that. I don't think it's going to buy like looking looking at past experience as a good lesson for how things may come and I remember very vividly the last minority because we kept seeing these shows rose from Michael Ignatieff. At the time of. WE'RE GONNA stand up or putting. I remember him in Sudbury. We're putting the Conservatives on nobody's holding them to account and then they backed down one hundred st votes and I remember the Rick Mercer piece when they brought out the whole the whole church choir sang backing down loving. It was one of the best piece of Canadian satire. Ever seen in my life but the point is is that it all comes down to that. Vote once rubber hits the road. That's when you'll see people really at and that's why I think in the minority. That's what we Kinda have to take Kosta back like yes. We're used to pay more attention. And everything going on but really pay attention to moments where he actually has to cast a vote in actually means something in that in that period. Sometimes we'd go ahead in our office. We work one block from where the House of Commons sits. Every day we view does any of this punched through to Canadians. Who Wake up every day and take the subway or the car to work Pick up groceries on the way home. Feed the kids does does. This is a speech from the throne today. Anybody wake up this morning start talking about in coffee shops. No telling you throw on. This is something we you talk about But it is. I just say that to bring us all back to reality that this is the speech from throwing the first step of To two maybe the three year process of the forty third parliament But as as a as a guiding document I do agree with you guys that it's a high level aspirational. There's going to be maybe five or six piece of legislation attached to Keep keep pillars in here And to your point Jeff as concert is the sole conservative in a room full of left-of-centre people trust me. ADP would disagree but that's okay to conservatives everybody conservative is a liberal. Don't worry her liberal supporters There's there's there's things in here that are good for the country and we all sit there. Let's hope let's hope we go into twenty twenty that you know everyone just gets along and I. I would like to see to be on his Andrew shears rhetoric and tone to come down a little bit more kind of seen happening. We've seen Jason Kennedy Scott Bowl covering the temperature. Ford we've seen the weird sight of Doug Ford being conciliator and all that I I think people have kind of realized that temperatures gotten hot and now time to kind of bring it down like we saw. I saw the news last night. Jason Kenny and the federal government agreeing on exemptions for industrial matters his car flex planes. This people need to remember. I think the important thing here is stone and this is where my word of warning to to the government is that the tone means everything when it comes down to a while in a minority you can try to squeeze the other sites. Hi It's until it's your fault if an election comes there's another person at that table and that's the person who's setting the tone and who's actually governing the place and make an easy like really. My argument is that Stephen Harper it could keep a minority got to minority government going over two years each with basically no natural ally. There's no reason why Justin Trudeau schnapp keep this going orange for at least as long. When he's got to natural allies sitting there there should be a much easier job if he doesn't get too high and mighty high on himself and you know what so far? He struck the right tone on but again the other parties. They could have to wait to see what happens and see what happens on the rubber. Gets the real on that note. I think we will have to see what happens. Look to see what happens in the twenty twenty honey. I really hope it. The tone does come down a little bit. I think for everyone across this country would like to see that we dealt with it in the election and now let's just get the job done so Jeff Cam Neil always a pleasure. Thank you guys and thank you to you. The listeners for tuning into blue skies strategy groups groups team of political observers for this week's a Canadian. podcast what you need to know about politics this week in Canada it loose guy. 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Can the Bloc Qubcois return from the brink?
"This is a c._b._c. Podcast <music> crisper sitting in for jimmy push <music> so if you're an english candidate you're probably not paying much attention to the block quebec wa but remember back in nineteen ninety-three the block was the official opposition they had a lot of political sway or going around the fabric of dunedin institution but to make the heart of more aware of the aspirations of the people today but the last two elections have almost wiped them out and block has kind kind of crumbled beginning in two thousand eleven when it seats were reduced from forty seven to four they've had six leaders in the past eight years and now the block has a leader tasked with rebuilding the party. You have to build a lot with very few resources and with a lot of humility. I think that's a good thing for the idea for the party the movement today we're talking about e. Francois blanchett's. We've been doing these profiles of all the major party leaders in the run-up to the october election. I'm joined by martin patrick metric when he's a politics journalist based in montreal and we're gonna talk about the state of the block and whether blanchette has a chance to make them relevant again. This is front burner martin. Thanks for coming back on front burner. Thanks for having me so e francois blanchette. He came to politics politics from a pretty different place from the other party leaders so what was his life before he got into politics <hes> well he was a music manager so there's a quebec rocker rocker by the name of ethic lapointe and he sort of considered the bad boy of quebec rock floats up trying to think of a way we over here how to how to describe eric lapointe or points like nickelback crossed with joe cocker but in french and everything that entails so <hes> you know sort of a guy who's walking blue song like you know is basically a victim of his own proclivities and successes and all that kind of stuff you <hes> and he was his manager <hes> and that meant sort of making sure that he got on stage making sure he got paid <hes> so he went from that that name is also <hes> president of leads disc which is the independent recording industry sort of umbrella group i guess right <hes> and so he was in there for a long time and then he went into politics he went into he went with the pets cubic well then he was back doing punditry on here on rental canada politik. Should we make these is your and then through that back in and decided to go back to politics with the buchwa so what actually drew him into politics like what are his convictions. He's very very much a as you can tell from his background sorta steeped in quebec culture and he comes out with a very that old school mentality that <hes> <hes> quebec is fundamentally different from the rest of the country and you all you have to do is look at our language and our culture and that while we can be good neighbors. We should really be separate. <hes> <hes> quebec should be a separate country the idea for nation for people to have its own country cannot die in cannot be irrelevant. It's been chosen by so many people in the last century. Why would any of that be any bad for quebec and that's a very i mean look. It's very sort of a prominent worldview as far as of people within the artistic community here in quebec certainly a certain age of his ilk. I guess <hes> and so that's that's that's what he brought into politics and then you wrote a profile tim a couple of years ago and got to spend some time with him like what was that like. He's <hes> his nickname. It's funny nickname his goon known for short temper and his you know <hes> sort of blunt speaking style. He was nicknamed that by one of his colleagues and it just sort of stuck in talking with him. I was talking to them. In the context of the two thousand twelve quebec election during what you saw some of the the beginnings innings of the party cubic was saying french vive edge towards identity issues voted to what we have the right to be ourselves. We have the right to be proud and his big thing then when i spoke to him was <hes> was language and the existential problem that is montreal free all because of the spread of english to the detriment of the french ram. It's that sort of reductionist arithmetic that is to say if you hear english. You are necessarily not seen so. You're not speaking french and you're you're. You're you're speaking at the expense of french and so one of the anecdotes. He told me we're sitting there. In a tim hortons in drummond ville and the first thing is is that he was looking at his tim hortons cup still remember this he's looking at important scalp and it bothered him that it said caffeine tim hortons and not leak efi because that's grammatically correct right <hes> the and and the other anecdote that he told me was that he was he was getting dining at a vietnamese restaurant somewhere up in rosemont which is a historically francophone working class neighborhood and realized is partway through the experience of dining that he was doing most of his ordering in talking to the waiter in english and he and he sort of did that did this without it thinking that really bothered him and you know i it is really really easy for for people like us to sort of make fun of and say oh what an idiot but amongst a certain generation of sovereignist that is the that is the sore point. Yes is the ideas that you are in your you are in your city and here you are speaking english rush because the person across either doesn't want to or can't speak french or doesn't occur to them to speak french. Put put it that way and that is a visceral visceral thing <hes> because that opens up all sorts of old wounds and i i understand the knee-jerk reaction just sort of laugh at that like a laugh about the apostrophe and tim hortons or ray f as opposed you say to say that doesn't seem as important as the other issues that you have to take on when you're running a federal party that's right and to be fair to him is running into provincial party is her <hes> and and the the fundamental issues that it always comes down to that existential question here in quebec is that we are a people of eight million six and a half million of which are french speakers and we are in a sea of millions an hundreds of millions of people who don't speak our language so we have to have this garrison mentality in order for us to survive and to be perfectly frank is that there's a there's a bit of truth. There's certainly a bit of truth there <music> now quebec sovereignty. It's not really a top of mind issue. I think for a lot of people especially clean english canada coming into this election. <hes> and i think the big question you have to answer when you're the leader of the bloc is how much do i push sovereignty as her main issue. And how much do i push sir referendum lake where does blanchette stand on that. I was looking at the website this morning and so it it has mowed down which is the president sort of forward then it says <hes> the lady asked this is the second underneath <hes> if you look at all the literature and everything like that it's still very much friend of mine they present themselves as being <hes> the anteroom to sovereignty <hes> in ottawa one that it exists for the exact reason that lucian push art created the party in nineteen ninety-one which is to say we are here as a pressure party to get quebec out of the canadian federation thing that we we needed a different from what it is now with the rest of candidate. It'll be a radically different arrangement. That's in theory in practice sort of really the push and aggravate the differences between canada and quebec and so one of the things that blush pushes the lot on these days is the question of oil well oil pipelines this idea of adding people buying more and more and burning more and more oil which will bring to hold plymouth nowhere as a nation nation like any other nation. We have to put a lot of pressure on any country. That keeps doing that. We are killing this world. We have a complicated relationship with oil here in quebec that we use it nearly as much as any other north american society but we critique it a lot. There's a new angus reid poll out that tells ask the oil and gas industry is becoming a priority for canadians in this election year. There's support for pipelines in every province except for quebec makes it a lot lot more in the environmentalist movement is stronger here and a lot more vocal than elsewhere <hes> and blush it counts himself amongst one of those right in some ways oil is really an issue where you can draw draw a line between quebec and canada's represented by the west right like having pipelines. You have to have a pipeline. Come through quebec. If you wanna move albert oil to the east coast so that's that's how that issue kind of manifest itself. That's right so if trudeau wins the election <hes> in october he has less of a problem with someone like e francois blanchet because trudeau rudo isn't advocating for a an east coast pipeline so energy east was here as as everyone knows we had the plan put it in and then it got cancelled because the the the company pulled out transcanada edible though in a statement today transcanada said it made the decision after careful review of changed circumstances the massive pipeline expansion was put on hold in the wake of new and more stringent environmental approval requirements for the national energy board. Would you consider championing west east pipeline. It doesn't have to be energy east. It might go through quebec. If there's going to be <hes> such a proposal it has to come forward from the private sector it has and has essentially bought a uh-huh has bought a pipeline to push to the to the west coast so that takes care of that <hes> the interesting part is if the conservatives come in one of the key points in andrew shears. Plank is a quote unquote energy. <hes> what is it angie <hes> corridor running through canada canadian resources and energy coast to coast we could create wealth and opportunity while uniting statements like negligible and so necessarily that means putting a pipeline through quebec back and it's interesting he talks a lot about that very issue outside of quebec but mentions it hardly at all when he's actually in the province back and that extends to his language to you you look at some of the some of the stuff that they've put out the conservative party is put out in the it wasn't me figure this out. It was a journalistic quebec city that he uses the word oil in in english angus candidate uses the word energy in quebec energy's pipeline that would have taken energy from western canada eastern candidate displacing for now yeah when blush took over the black abequa he had his he said we really have to reach younger people and it feels like kind of these identity issues and the issue sovereignty is not so top of mind for younger people. Oh but energy and oil really can be away that it can be both a quebec issue an like something that reaches younger people worried about climate change. That's right so if you were the <music> <hes> sovereigntists version one back in the day you would have aggravated the differences the linguistic differences in the cultural differences between english and french canada so what you're seeing now <hes> <hes> with mr blanchette is go look. Candida is a petro state. Look quebec is greener than green. We wanna make things very green. We are green <hes> and everything around us. <hes> <hes> that has to do with canada is is soaked in oil. That's the difference that he's gonna aggravate not so much linguistic one but the petrochemical based ones yeah. It's it's not the the cultural differences. Actually we have a policy difference on the rest of canada that makes it necessary for us to become more independent from them. There's a bit of truth to this. There's also a lot of myth making that. Quebecers are inherently greener than the rest of the country. Now we do use a little bit less oil than everybody else given the fact that there's a there's so much hydro hydropower here but look the top selling car here in quebec is <hes> is the f. one fifty people's by s._u._v.'s as much as they do anywhere else. Quebec is a massive massive province <hes> geographically geographically wise with a very small population. What does that mean. People drive more. <hes> look whereas addicted oil as anyone else regardless. The misir are difficult difficult break and i never said that kickers were saints which does not mean that have to be forced into being you come police to this development of tar sand oil. I wanna talk about one of the biggest challenges for blanchette and that is the party that he's actually the leading right now. Because the last years of the block becua- i looked into this it was they've had six leaders in the last eight years by my count. It's been like a pretty tumultuous leander's and interim you leaders right right exactly and if we go back to the last election i mean the party only had two seats they had been wiped out by the ep party says it's seeing a surge of support lord across the country but particularly in quebec they coax jill out of retirement to subsidize the m._v._p. Has failed to defend quebec's interests in ottawa. Al could sovereigntists be represented in ottawa with people always saying that their ideal what happened in that election because they did turn it around to some extent to some extent fisher so she'll this was brought out. There's a there's a great term in french. <hes> people can google this. It's called soviet <hes> and that means ba- essentially saved the furniture <hes> the the water's creeping up <hes> get the furniture on the roof so that you know we save. We don't doesn't doesn't get waterlogged and we all get drifted away to see that's basically what is you'll duceppe. <hes> did not election <hes> he was not to say he was a spent force but he had suffered a very sort humiliating defeat in two thousand eleven forget the phone. He says he's accepting responsibility for the crushing defeat and came back in two thousand fifteen used the last of his political clout to to turn things around. Did it work. He didn't win himself <hes> the his own seat but but it worked in the sense that people around managed to get elected when they probably would have the probably should've lost and anywhere in in other words though seats that would have gone <hes> that was probably gonna lose. Anyway didn't go to the liberals. They went back to the block so that's what they did so now they have. If i'm not mistaken if ten they won ten seats in the last one but they also ran a campaign that i think especially in english candida struck a wrong note for a lot of people. It ended up being a very controversial campaign. You're allowed to use the word abhorrent okay so that that's interesting testing <hes> that you bring that up. I'll explain is basically what the ad was that one of the main is was and it was pretty close to the election date. Basically it was <hes> a drop of oil sort of morphing into a kneecap humane sony protocol. I think nepal dini cap and even if we're not okay with wearing a niqab to vote or taken south thomas mulcair he's fine with it. It's one drop too many because the was the main was seen as the main opponents to them. If you elect the dp quebec will be overrun run with oil in kneecaps right now <hes> again. I use the word appoint. There and i stand by it. It's it's a it's a brutal thing. It's particularly brutal because jill duceppe himself elf when at the provincial level was going through all the sort of identity stuff and a charter of quebec values which would have seen the prohibition of the the of the hijab and the the key etc etc it would ban the wearing of ostentatious religious symbols. The minister responsible for this bernard granville says he thinks these rules are necessary because there's tension about this. He calls it a crisis. The state must be neutral jobs. Sep was sort of one of the ones who spoke out against it to the extent that he could and has said for as long as i can remember him being in politics that a quebecer quebecers comebacker <hes> to paraphrase justin trudeau <hes> <hes> so for him to come out and do this. It's sort of showed me exactly the limits of civic nationalism right because he's in trouble. He's got the breathing down his neck and what does he do. He reverts to this sort of scorched earth idea that was straight of his stephen harper playbook to say look if you don't if you don't vote for us we're the last bulwark against oil in kneecaps cabs. Did it work. I mean they did do. They did do better than they thought so in a way. Do you feel like the party the block becua- changed because of that election because has they have been seen for the longest time kind of socially progressive party like they had a policy of voting for same sex marriage for example when that came up years ago <hes> and now they're playing on these kind kind of identity issues and issues around specifically you know islam in quebec like did that fundamentally change what the parties about i mean the the block of it was is often seen as the poor cousin of of the particular and that's exactly what the party gave it d- <hes> in the two thousand twelve when they first elected in the election after that pushed as i mentioned before the charter quebec values the particular kwa which i will remind listeners started off as not quite multicultural but very very very open to newcomers difference within the society also close ranks so the fact that the bloc quebecois is doing that now doesn't really surprise me so i want to run through just the last couple of years because duceppe as you mentioned lost his seat in the two thousand fifteen election <hes> and then he went back into retirement and the party went through a little bit of soul searching and they ended up picking this woman martine roulette yup to run the party well. That's spoke about the party sovereignty anti agenda and how many underestimate the strength of the bloc quebecois leonova. Mike system is also very blue and she lasted a year sure. I mean it was a very tumultuous time like seven members of the ten person caucus quit in protest has right the seven fed up m._p. Say she didn't listen and they fundamentally under mentally disagreed about how to best pursue independence the way mrs won't at the cdc the our job. It's like being salesman. I i believe it should be independent but i don't believe that saying that they after day will make people believe the same you know. We'll let she came in. She lasted a year in this leadership position ended up being essentially forced out because she lost her entire caucus basically and into this void comes the francois blanchette and now now he's coming by acclamation. He becomes the leader of the party and he's walking into a party that clearly has had this kind of disorganization the last couple of years. What does he do to get the party back on track with bloodshed now. His convictions are very very well known. They have been for a long time what he brings to the party. Though i think is that name recognition everybody sort sorta knows this guy for for his time within a as manager for point <hes> as president of leads and then he was a pundit on on radio canada ah here on a show called his ex the cavs in this so the phony elective the console was on this law so he's a very very well known entity eighty <hes> and has experienced within politics frank so i think that's a lot of what he brings <hes> and you you know you sort of reflected in the polls. The bloc quebecois hasn't done anything thing because there's there hasn't been an election but the second that he was sort of elected leader the bloc quebecois went from dead in the water to <hes> not quite dead in the water within the space of a few weeks it was it it was actually interesting to watch. It's going to be very interesting. E francois blush. It will be in the debates. He's one of the five leaders who <hes> will be part of those so <hes> for people in english canada who he doesn't have a huge profile with like that'll probably be introduction. I think for a lot of people <hes> yeah yeah and <hes>. I hate to say it but he doesn't really careful since i mean fundamentally he doesn't he doesn't really <hes> he doesn't care about the rest of the country at all. I mean that's the that's the nature of the bloc quebecois. You know he's he's. He's says all the right things you know candidate candidate lovely country but but we're fundamentally different that's the way he is and that's the way it's always gonna be martin. Thank you so much for talking today. I really appreciate it. Thanks for have aw <music>. This is the third in our series of profiles on the federal party leaders. You can actually find our episodes on justin trudeau uh-huh andrew scheer in our feet. That's all for this week. Fritter comes to you from c._b._c. News and c._b._c. podcasts this week. The show is produced by shannon higgins. Imaging burchard matama and ashley mac derek vander. Wake is our designer. We had helped this week from billy heaton. Our music is by joseph. Chaban boombox sound this week. The executive producer front burner was elaine chao sitting in for nick mccabe locos. Your host of course is jimmy hustle and i'm chris birthday. Thanks for listening to front burner you for more c._b._c. Podcasts go to c._b._c. dot c._a. Slash podcasts.
Getting Ready for the House to Return
"The welcome to this week's episode of Blue Skies Strategy Groups Canadian. podcast what you need to know about this week in Canadian politics. I'm Alison Fair and joining me. This week. My colleagues Cameron Hallstrom Neo Brody and Jeff Turner Morning morning a- rate we are the final week of they break Before the House returns yesterday was kind of a political news. Drop rate as we were all kind of leaving work and all that it Kinda went back to our conversation last week about the Conservatives neo. Want to start with you. How disappointing is it for the Conservatives to have peer step boat note and how to have this candidate used to be a staffer out on public television saying what he sitting on helpful being honest with themselves? Listen a full respect to appear He does have a young family notionally looking at me. He said on his His statement yesterday looking ahead. He's he may be out of the house for the next eight years Starting on June twenty seven whenever even before that because he's gotTa start campaigning for the leadership so him him Not Running. There's a bit of a surprise of especially when he built up a team. Well you know going back to Mr Sheer step down. I think every conservative understood that there were two two heavyweights lurking out there. Rana and Run Ambrose and Peter McKay and with Peter Mackay in the ring You have to as a candidate before you put down two hundred thousand dollars as one hundred thousand dollar refundable fundable deposit see a path to victory And you have to want to go through the six months of leadership campaigning which are two separate things pillow? They're linked And shelling out two hundred thousand dollars for a clear path to victory and spending six months of your life working around the clock seven days a week to convince membership to to support you and your bid is is something you don't take on lightly I I read in one of the newspaper reports yesterday. This morning that The Joe Clark leadership campaign campaign the entrance fee was five hundred bucks back in the seventies You know I don't think you'd get away with that now because you'd have six hundred people perhaps running. I'm sure or you could buy a house with that in nineteen concert maybe maybe elsewhere. But you don't just throw two hundred thousand dollars away frivolously So it's it's it's a bit disappointing to see the the field narrow if I can say like that we have there's a candidate who's been on TV. well as I said last week's podcast there are three types of candidates. They're the people who could win. The general general election perhaps not win the leadership. People could win. The leadership necessarily win the general election. And then there's a wires and as we've seen with Pierre the era and And some other people who've said that they are considering running there's considering running and then there's actually as I said laying down three hundred thousand dollars with with three thousand signatures and Nothing it can't be done but those are hurdles Jeff. What do you make of yesterday's development? We'll just picking up on where we just left off. I think the important thing and I and I saw all name micro Mike Moffitt. This morning was asking these questions and as material guy they resonated with me. which is? Is this the tenure Granik Allen of the federal race until Doug Ford would not have one that That leadership race two years ago the thirteen percent of of of the ninety seven percent of tenured. Granny gallons vote went to Doug Ford which ultimately was just enough to be Christine Elliott. So while while this guy is on outlier and as being roundly criticized appropriately including and and and I will I will appreciate by conservatives and more principled conservatives who are trying to bring this conversation Into a more sustainable political place Going forward from two thousand twenty It's not to be underestimated that. I don't think he's running win. He's running to make a king and The movement that he is saying is behind him is fine without and we'll fund that and we'll so help him get there and the question will be whether whether he turns around well whether the eventual winner and turns around and then ignores them and has a schism awesome that follows like in Ontario Context Patrick Round before him and Doug Ford after him. So is this. Just a repeat of traditional cycle is what I'm kind of wondering But I just. It certainly isn't helpful. But at least I mean maybe from the outside and and the the opponent opponents point of view I do hope that this is actually just helping the Conservative Party really understand what's at stake going forward from two thousand twenty on in their political image Mitch political man if I remember correctly When Pierre the whole notion of peer running you a lot of liberals in the office we're going yes for sure for sure? There's no doubt that Pierre Paul is vicious political animals and so his ambition obviously obviously got fired up immediately and to your earlier point. He assembled a team. I've heard it That he actually had a venue booked for the Saturday to launch his campaign. Yeah so you know It's clear that either he had that sort of You know really make or break it moment personally about whether he was into this this or not appealing bag. It has his ambition God and a little bit better of him when he actually took a look at his family's situation and what that meant But yeah that's hard when you assemble the team of not just like one or two people who are out singing your praises every once in a while because they already had a TV spot. But you've got John Baird to compromise his integrity on his reporting. You've got Jenny Byrne you've got you've got all these people who've lined up behind him who are heavyweights. They must be feeling a little bit of a sting of disappointment to Especially if they've put their reputations in the life of the guy so so I'm curious to see whether this is the end of that story or whether there's a bit more that comes out and buy more I mean well. Is that other reason falling behind another candidate totally normal. Hello Is another reason Something else we'll find out something else. Cam where did you make of it. I I've had a couple of thoughts on this play. Apostate now Now I'm one of the I'm new view of the belief that I'm taking someone out their word when they say it's family because I've been through three these races. I felt burned three of them. I've I've seen the toll that it takes on a candidate and I understand people's view on that and it's not that I don't want to believe Mr Pov. It's just that egg egg jeff pension attention. There was a venue booked for tomorrow book for the weekend. That's laying out his laying on expenses. You've got Jenny Byrne you've got you've got John Baird. This went somewhat further down the road than most would at this point and I would I put that together with something else. That happened yesterday Alex gone of global found online. That they're on youtube the Josh Array hacked she posted a video saying that he was in that was up online for full hour for it got pulled because with after he made the announcement he was out so obviously again he laid out money. He paid a production studio. They did the video. Didn't both they went all the way down the road and all of a sudden Yankees. He's out that's too you know it's starting to honestly this racist starting to get weird to me because it's like it's almost like a real bad b movie movie Bat. Be Bad murder mystery movie severance all together in a room and they don't know each other and all of a sudden body start dropping and everyone has their suspects send. Next person goes is the suspect that turns out it was some but it was it was some bellboy named avenue. All of them out to get them but it seems like it just makes no sense of all. These people are dropping like flies in this race and so to me. It's good for the for the for the part of those looking to have some renewal the other side of this. This is a and I couldn't help remark on this yesterday. You've had a leadership race that's been set up in a way. At least it's it's worked out so far. Where people like Rona Rona? Ambrose Josh or a pure Paulie Gee I'll feel can't make a run at it or they don't feel they don't feel they should be in that race yet. I'M GONNA he uses name. Michelle did Kerry feels that. He's at home but he apparently feels okay to be in this race. I would take that as a problem. I don't see it as a good thing for the conservative moving because if you are trying to move into this next into into into into the present and have that evolution. This debate probably shouldn't be happening. And while I really appreciate officiate. What basically every everyone in the race came out and denounced this gentleman when it happened? Good on the Michelle Garner. I loved her comments Giddy up. I agree with her. She should the race but I but other because Geoffrey touched on it he pointed the Boiler Doug Ford and Patrick Brown Andrew Scheer last time it was Brad trost the same thing and who is behind Aka Brad trost himself is chairing the campaign and fundraising his former campaign manager ten. Grand counts warmers. Calm calm person is on there. They brought the band back together. And what and the one thing that bothers me about this is that a lot of the candidates came out and denounced him and rightfully so. Oh but not a single one of them came out and said not a single one said if you support him. I don't want your vote because this this is gonna be a ranked ballot and the old show the door speech door somewhere in the spring that nobody got shown but not not only really do I denounce you. I don't want your backing if you feel you should support him. I don't want your vote but no give Nielsen time. Kingmaker possible really no. No liberal in DP leadership candidate has ever pointed the finger at You know ANTIFA or Communist nist people in their own party and said if you believe in Bringing down the capitalist society by putting a mask on your face and throwing stones at the police in downtown on Toronto. We don't want you actually actually actually. I've I've been campaign that's done. Just stop by but to your point the differences the socialist caucus quote quote unquote. ADP is nowhere near as well organized or as coherent as the conservative movement and can be both a principal at a tactical thing. I if I could step back up a little higher level listening to this I think we all are familiar with the term the nature of Horsley vacuum right. And I think what we're experiencing. I think it's short term. We're experiences the short-term vacuum there's these SPEC disease gravitational forces out there that are the the the Ron Ambrose Asia rays of the world and Peter Mackay who tweeted that he's in a week ago and nobody's heard from him since which is odd supposed installers? And that's what it is too. Yeah no need for him to jump into the middle of all all this craziness. This week I guess but anyway nature evacuating what we're experiencing right. Now is the vacuum of those those big players who have been trying to get attracted in which begs the question of wiry sorry experienced in this vacuum. Why are some people saying out while some people getting out and behind the scenes? My only estimation is it means that somebody is either either. This is going to be a pure McKay coronation and they're are doing that work right now. The submarine warfare. We talked about last week to get The various ships to head back to harbor so that they don't get sucked And or there is another other person out there making calls and letting it be known that they might be interested in the scaring people away. I'm not gonNA use the name is. It's been reported this week but I I don't think that's true but I I really wonder. I think this is more. This is more that something is happening where somebody is coming. I think with all of these big names now being out of the fold. I think this is now becoming a Peter MacKay coronation. They're going to be sensitive to that So but but sensitive means you either like you embrace it and you take it to the finish line and you get coronated and it's awesome and then you just keep that momentum going to try to win as prime minister or you're worried about trying to stack somebody else so you have a couple of foils to work against and who a few commend folding into your camp to me. That's the only scenario under which you avoid the kingmaker scenario with Mr dicarlo. Yup is that if somebody went on the ballot because whenever they brought the table didn't matter because someone else else carried more than half the vote in that honestly got much more like in the scenario. Because I don't you just look at the numbers. Just the math of what it takes to win a leadership race like this. It's hard to put. It's hard to put someone eat enough that vote to keep Peter Mackay under fifty percent right now neil for this all this going in the Conservative Party. What what did they do for this? Take this and go into the House of Commons. We got everyone coming back on Monday. What did the Conservatives now need to do with all that's going on with the leadership race and folk turn to the focus in the House of Commons leaning to fulfil their role as the official opposition Mister Trudeau Trudeau has set out today. a guiding light of whatever he's talked about it yesterday compromise and consultation and sunshine China blue skies. I think it was a wash. Rinse repeat of his two thousand fifteen caucus Message before the house comes. Got Back to work after the last election It'll it'll it'll remain to be seen whether he actually follows through on that Make sure that Piece of legislation or piece of policy. Also that are trying to be put through the comments that the Conservatives may have legitimate gripes against that they hold it up with every tool in the in the opposition toolbox box in a in a minority parliament and And get through really truly. Just get through to the end of June when a new leader emerges Don't don't don't break anything. Don't break anything. You breakage. Bought it true that Jeff. So we have the leadership race with the Conservatives Neal's neal's At vices to just stay the course until June twenty-seventh what do the liberals now have to do as government Coming into this Correct that's a good rule to follow for all all government activity. I guess so coming into this week so it's back to school season And I think members from all caucuses got a little taste of things in December but I would just call that a little taste of things that was a a flash in the PAN for a a couple of days. Everybody was still very fresh off the election. So now we're into the real now we're into the real school year And so a couple of things one they we have a throne speech at Sylvia's be passed. That confidence vote. We all seem to sort of forgotten about it but we'll be I believe probably priority number one. They have to finish debate on that before they can move on much else And I think it just begs the question. We all have a presumed outcome The block of made their friendly noises But that was also almost two months ago and so I'm just curious to see whether that debate takes a weird turn Or whether it just continues and finishes as expected so people can get on other issues. The legislative docket is not going to be happy. Can't be happy for for reasons. I think our listeners understand which is if you put a bill on the table you lose control of it so you better have your ducks in a row in terms of WHO's going to support it or you're pretty darn close with some amendments that you might make once it's on the table but you need to know that a bill isn't just going to take on a life of its own and then pass it a form that you don't like as the government because it it got hijacked by other people's interests So legislatively. You'RE GONNA see very few which means house won't have a whole lot of debate. I don't think actually I think they're going to be quite thin on those things. I'm curious whether there'll be more recesses and stuff which people might actually get behind wind because the other thing. That minority parliament does put butts in seats and And just you know our listeners. Speaking from some experience and working in the in the beginning minority thirty years and then -tario serving cabinet ministers in those capacities. I had a boss WHO's ministerial office was five blocks away from Queens Park and that he didn't set foot in Senate for a year and a half except after seven PM. Because we simply could not do a stakeholder meeting we couldn't do we can sign. Correspondence couldn't brief the minister on on subjects. Unless it was coffee shop nearby that you guys could meet. It was in the lot it was in the line of the legislature Or if we were lucky and I know West blocks is a little short on these things that meeting room nearby so members and ministers are going to have to get a new way of operating that they may not be used to after a term my majority government. I think that applies opposition members as well because they got to be in the seats to and for ministers. It's a little bit more difficult because ministers have obviously additional duties in a regular member And when you're in a minority and you need to make sure that the all this is coming from a place where you can't have any websites you can't lose emotion. You can't have a bill. Bill voted down at bare minimum. It's just embarrassing. And you'll be you'll be criticized rightly for it for days or weeks to come absolutely so so you can't make that mistake because I mistaken either just embarrassing best-case scenario worst-case scenario can drop the government I think that's where the conservatives coming and trying to make sure that they're disciplined enough to actually actually accidentally caused the fall of the government. Same for the new Democrats or anybody else for that matter but this is a numbers game at the end of the day. It means that there will always have to be you just one more liberal member within fifty meters of the Chamber at any given time than there are opposition someone who watches it at allow me to figure out a WHO's who in the House of Commons because we'll see a lot more cam. I WANNA get your take. What is the new Democrats have to do coming in? Starting Monday I visited Democrats. It's one one of the big things it's going to be cutting through the din right now because being the fourth party it's trying to make. How do you stand out in the agenda because obviously the the conservative leadership race taking up a lot of the debate a lot of the area now in the room Nafta two point will become four. Parliamentary government's said they're going to do the ways and means motion on Monday in Jerusalem. The bill on Wednesday so that'll be relatively consequential in that. Debate comes forward. So what do you do to try to cut through and still try to advance your goals and we've got a good clue that yesterday The MVP DP announced they're going to be bringing forward a bill on national farm Macaire renounced stats going. Outside doesn't matter the point is that you're putting you're putting it on the agenda and they have a private member's spot in the first fifteen it'll come up right away and that will that will help push the trial would get their way through this. I think what's going to be interesting for them. How Oh you stay disciplined your own message what you WanNa do not get caught up when everything also tap? I think that's one of the hard things in a minority because things do just go sideways some things do get out of hand and it just part of the nature of the beast and I think Jeff's point about counting counting heads and making sure people butts in seats. I personally what I expect to see happen. I expect the government to be more aggressive at this point because they know they've got six months where the Conservatives are really gonNA wait not to bring down the government. We saw this with Mr Match. He became leader of in the last minority. Where the the Liberals put for this beautiful approach of we're GonNa vote against you just not enough butts in the seats to actually take you down? And and that spawned one of the greatest peace political satire in in history in my view of Rick Mercer bringing full Baptist choir singing back debt backing down and loving it. It was but that's what it was like. We're going to oppose you but not so far as to risk ourselves and when you tell the butts and seats piece that also one of my favorite moments in the house Back in two thousand nine One day one day in a house we notice that the Liberals had very few members actually in the House so pat Martin at the time raised raised up in the house and moved a motion to formally make Jack late and literally official opposition for the day and it nearly passed because the liberals were sent scrambling back into the room to stop it right but the fact is stuff like this can happen now as you kinda have to be on your toes and be well organized and yeah. If if you're if you're in DP and your position you have more power in that sense but you have to be dishes and how you use it. Yeah and some silly fun too. Who I think is what your example just highlights there will be those those silly fun moments and there will be the We're actually trying to put you over Put you over on something that you don't want to talk for both Mr Mr Blanchette it's continuing the momentum that they got in the in the election You know if we you can cast our minds back to the end of August. People were predicting the end EP. Getting zero seats and through the sheer power of Mr Personality which nobody had seen up until the election. Actually I don't think we'd see during the leadership but disappeared shortly thereafter. He whether he brought the party back from the brink of destruction. Or Not that I that I. That's probably too strong a phrase but again Mr Blanchette as well he You know the Bloc Quebecois always essentially gone and through a variety of whatever reasons as a some of it being his personality They became the third party and And for the Liberals going into this next Next section of this parliament arledge. He's caucus management It's been Eight years majority for for the Conservatives for for the Liberals There's a certain Lackadaisical equalness if I can say that of worrying about the what goes on in the House of Commons and what goes on your own caucus when there's a majority and there's no real fear of of losing anything anything Getting new MP's and new ministers accustomed and all the MP's and the minister oldness sorry experienced in peace and experienced ministers there's back into the mindset of every day counts. When you wake up in the morning you have to have your head on and and come to the House of Commons because there is the work work of governing to do which is maintaining an Blah with block? I think we need to keep very conscious. wiki pointed them as a wildcard. This whole setup. What they're gonNA do legislatively is going to be for me is going to be fascinating because naturally with to make someone who would oppose this Nafta bill coming up yet? Francois go formula goes where he said. Don't don't you dare you back off right and see so. They've always taken the approach while we follow the National Assembly. Well if the national do the buck the trend here do they. Not I think this to me is a real wild card. This whole thing which really is going to make it interesting to see how this how this parliament actually survives I was involved in a podcast yesterday with Another partisan group and the serve on the panel said. He was putting money on the next election. Being made you you know what was the block and how they operate I can see it because they're the ones who least want to go to an election have the the most to lose because they have the lease organization lease ability and frankly they're happy where they are and they have most wiggle room to actually make it happen because they the there are so many me thinks they can vote on that are very inconsequential to their voters. Just have to see. I'm looking forward to the mall coming back. I'm actually looking forward to hearing from all again. 'cause it's been quiet Royat. I mean just seeing the prime minister out and all that kind of stuff. So it'll be nice to see sheer in saying and launched in May everyone back in the House of Commons so that'll be exciting and learning all the new. MP's on a permanent basis. So Jeff Cam Nealy thank you so much again and thank you to the listeners for tuning into blue skies strategy groups team of political observers for this week's a Canadian. podcast what you need to know about politics this week in Canada Louis. Guy Strategy Group is one of Canada's leading public affairs firms for government relations lobbying strategic communications advice across Canada visit I blue sky strategy group Dot blue-sky Strategy Group is a proud member of the Global Communications Alliance
Going into the Homestretch
"Welcome to this week's episode of Blue Skies Tragedy Group's Canadian podcast. What you need to know about this week in in Canadian politics? I'm Cam from a consultant here. Blue Sky and joining me today or Neil Brodie fights president lines himself with the Blue Team and Jeff Aft- Turner Senior Consultant Who's closely following the liberal campaign. All right well here. We are the end of the end of this big week. And as of today voting has begun with advanced polls now open and threw out the long weekend. There are a lot of undecided voters out. There we'll start off with this wondering here. We'll Canadians Canadians. Come out this weekend to vote or will people wait the twenty-first to make up their mind. What do you think Well I know the I think the trend over the last couple of years is people going to advance dance polls to avoid the crowds on on election day I think the The question this time around will people want to go out and vote There have been no the change in the numbers in the polls since the beginning of the campaign which kind of reflects the No big winning issue. No big winning in plank For any of the parties It's kind of the Seinfeld election. It's really about nothing even though there have been some some large policy announcements by all the parties. Hardee's I I don't I don't know it's Thanksgiving weekend. If the weather's nice and people are with families they might stay home and the twenty-first but I think it's only I think that's it's only a a result of the weather. I think the bigger question is will people want to own vote this this time. What you Jeff? I don't think the proverbial undecided voter person who sort of ascribing identifies as unidentified. We'll go out this weekend. Because those types of voters tend to play chicken with the polls they go right to the very last minute before making up their mind I've been to lots of doors on the day before Election Day. Where people are still telling you? They're undecided so I don't think that's who's going to go out to advance polls weekend but that's not who is supposed to go to advance. Polls as far as campaign when is concerned Campaigns are working this weekend as many election day. First and foremost it's a way of warming up your machine for the big show on next Monday but secondly it's a way. AM getting the people you know or suspect highly are going to vote for you to the poll to effectively deposit that vote into the bank. So you can focus on the rest of the people on your list for the remainder of of the week. So that's that's what's happening this weekend. I think people are going after As far as campaigns are going after. ID voters to try to get them to go early. There are some voters who just naturally know that they're are gonNA be busy or they're traveling or town or it's not convenient or maybe. This weekend is more convenient than a Monday afternoon. So you'll definitely get those types of voters who may not be coming because as they are particularly strongly politically aligned or other things just convenient for them So I think The truly undecided voter which is who were talking about in this question I think they're sitting down over dinner or family engagement this weekend. And they were having that proverbial Thanksgiving conversation may not make up their mind but it will substantially advance. That and I think by next Monday they'll be ready to go. I think there are two factors really play into this. One is over the last couple of federal election cycles. We've seen more and more people get attuned to the idea of strategic voting and and that idea of trying to stop the lesser to whatever that may look like and therefore I've gotten more used to the idea of going at the last minute letting things play out see what happens at the polls for alternate jumping in because we face stories in two thousand eleven of people are saying oh I voted liberal to stop the MVP and Jack Layton surgeon. I feel terrible. How can I help you? And and I saw the opposite opposite in in in two thousand fifteen and I think you're seeing people are wising up a little bit and thinking okay. I'm GonNa wait a little bit longer to do this. The other thing though. I think it's interesting plaintiffs additive so well advanced polls open. Friday universities had polls open all week. And what's happened with that youth with that university vote at the did they actually get out to the act and AH obviously those votes are already now in the bank. That's the big thing I agree with that. You're saying Jeff at this point in the campaign you WANNA Walk People in as best you can and this an opportunity to do it so the people if they if they are feeling your way and you can get him out to vote now because it wasn't they change your mind will will cast. It doesn't matter anymore but I think it's going to be interesting when it comes to the polls calls we start to see some movement in the last couple of days especially in the personal approval numbers for Mr saying. I think the question is that does that continue play. And I think that's one of the things that keep people who are undecided undecided on the sidelines. This weekend is why does he does play out wanting to see you know it is. There is another option for me. If they wait they wait ten days. I'll have a better idea of where things in stand now. The other big thing this week we had we had. Both the official commissioned debates Monday night on on on their last Thursday night in French and quite the spectacles new formats live audiences. All this lovely stuff built up around so I wanted to get both your overall impression on this. Who who want who lost? Who looked good? Who wish they'd stayed home? Jeff Yeah I think. The format lost I think that was the unanimous. As far as the English language debate was concerned I think that was unanimous amongst no matter what your partisan stripe And that was just a bit of a shame because I think people were looking forward to this as a bit more of a neutral space jason bit more of a different format than before in past campaigns and I think a lot of people were disappointed with the election Debate on in English. The French nice to be made a lot of changes. I don't know whether that was always their plan. or whether the producers went into a bunker for a couple of days to really take the the sort maelstrom around the English debate and turn it into something better in their own production So either either Kudos if they did it. Better from the GECKO or Kudos if they turned it around in a couple of days for what was arguably a much better format I think we actually heard the leaders able to communicate they all. I think the leaders and the party certainly got the message that viewers and Canadian for frustrated by this kind of scrabble talking over each other in in those sorts of things in the first debate because they were all very polite. They're all very very accommodating if you will of other people's Time on the microphone and so I thought the French debate did a better service. So it's the it's the Canadians across the country. Hopefully should've watched. Unfortunately that won't be the case in in in English Canada I think in terms of just a answer question who who sort of broke through. Didn't I think it's it's it's fairly. Well accepted Jagmeet. Did have a pretty shiny day a on the English debate. I think in part that was because First of all he's obviously a fairly positive guy. That's his brand that's his. That's his His way of doing politics and I think that was contrast especially this year coming out with a giant bludgeoned right off the bat. I think set sing up perfectly to be that Middle Guy. Hi who he was to say. Okay well you guys are arguing. You look at me while I say something. That's universally accepted by whoever hears it. It's easy to be the Nice Guy Candidate when you have nothing to lose. Yeah and no disrespect intended but Justin Trudeau was the same way in twenty fifteen. He had nothing to lose. They were the third party. He'd come in and say anything he wanted me. Obviously there's a different dynamic in play when you're a liberal the Liberal Party leader But it's nice when you're in that third third position where you can come in you. You really can't do anything wrong and I was just thinking I mean in terms of Jagmeet in this sort of this moment that seems to be lifting him a little bit in this week and I just find it interesting and maybe this is a partisan comment but I find interesting. That that he's he's he's sailing to become a very important person or A. You know a winner of this campaign by losing half of the seats. It really is this awkward dynamic of Catching Fire while the ship is burnt while the ship is sinking. It just is this dichotomy. That is hard to figure out. And it's accurate. I think he is. He is catching on. He is reaching people he he is you know sort of having that actively to frustrated voters but the stark reality of the of the of the chess pieces on the map is he's GonNa lose half of all of those things where they are today. We've got another week. We'll get into that. Neil your views on it. I will Second Jeff's opinion that One of the big losers. There's was the debate itself Having both debates in Ottawa. With at least the English language debate with five moderators Did a disservice to the National campaigns that people are running that there's only one debate French and English autosomal. There should have been one in Halifax I'm partial because I've got a very good friend in Halifax there should have been wind. You Know Edmund. Ten or or or Vancouver Just to show that this is a big country and there are different Political imperatives across the country. That that that that the regions care about My take away from the two debates is the liberals and the Conservatives fought to a tie Which I think was the best that both could hope for This is the winners. Were the smaller parties. Who who had a hard time Getting their message through up until the debate. So yes Mr Sing Mr Blanchette for awhile. He's he's now burst onto the national scene as the next Great Bloc Quebecois leader a and and Ms May of course you never know as the fifth or Sixth Party in the House of Commons. She never gets much airtime so Getting whatever where. She got twenty minutes in the debate. To talk about. Her issues is is always a good thing My my understanding. I didn't watch the french-language take did of my wife's Twenty Ninth Birthday Just catching up she can. She's catching up to me. I understand I watched the English debates Mr Single All. I understand Mr Sing Kinda ran out of talking points in the French debate. I don't I don't know whether that will hurt him in Quebec But if this is going to be a minority government which it looks like it is to your point Jeff. He may be the most important person in parliament. Y losing a quarter a third a half of a seats. Yeah I have to say. I found interesting using the frontliners debate last night. Some of the most heated exchange was actually between Andrew. Scheer and bloodshed. Like they. Actually were fairly viscerally going after each other More than just on policy points. It was a little bit personal which I find interesting because the you know. The minority speculation is that the only possible partners the Conservatives have their minorities minorities the Bloc Quebecois or piecemeal with the Liberals. But that's unlikely and I don't think that's going to be interesting to come out of this. This this last week of a campaign comes in these playoffs. Playoff the debates is that you're starting to see where the pressure points are coming whereas Mr Singh spent a lot of his time last night in the French debate going after Mr Trudeau even though when he wasn't matched up with them He went after him. You saw you saw sheer going. After blanchette you saw Bernier going after sheer like e you. You're seeing where everyone's pressure points are and where this is really going to play on the next week. I think the thing that I found very interesting about about both debates again aside from the format which. I'm hoping they take some lessons from this and learn from to me. I think the big thing comes I take away from. This is going to be the importance of campaigns and the importance of debates. We've seen this doesn't happen all the time but we've seen it again again. We even the situation where things have been deadlocked had moved and this was the thing that shook it started shaking Lusa bet and the value of having more of these debates. I agree with Neil. I think one of the sad things about the English debate was that it happened at seven PM Eastern so four. PM on the on the on the west coast it happened at eight pm on the East Coast. We're huge country with six timezones. You're not gonNA in a find a perfect way to do this. Between that's all the more reason maybe maybe why you do an east won a West one bring your topics at folks in the region bringing journalists from those areas to actually actually drill down on it. I think there's actually good value and same thing in French too. I appreciate that. Obviously the MO the largest frequent ovulation candidates in Quebec and. I'm glad that the consortium brought in from outside of Quebec this time but I think there's something to be said for doing for having that maybe Quebec debate outside anyway. Let's toby in violent agreement. That debates can be better next time. I think let's just not let's just not hopefully see the debate commission kind of wither and fall apart as a result of this this is their first tryout and I think we can we can hopefully see them become more ambitious as a result of that failure and hopefully be more ambitious. We've talked about by doing things. I I agree entirely. It's a big country Patrick so onto the last points starting to run out of time so we're into the final week of the campaign rendered the homestretch. Everyone's going to have Turkey this weekend. And then after that we're into the last seven days where do you see the different parties focusing all star. Neil well parties are going to go to their target ridings For everybody that means Southern Ontario Quebec and the West Coast Those are the areas that are in play So the campaigns will focus on that What I'm looking for if the polls stay fairly early tight I look forward to the last week. Commercial that liberals will drop I remember fondly the two thousand and four campaign with the Darth Vader esque liberal commercial. It's Mr Harper was going to put the army in the streets That I know I was. That was the line fine By look forward to what there will be a push for votes over the last week both are on the ground with the campaigns over the airwaves as well and I'd be interested to see where where the the parties go with their over the air attacks. Jeff Yeah I think for every party in every campaign that last week is choices in contrast so you know that sort of rounding up the back end you need to make a choice. It's now Speaking undecided voters or people who are waffling and and and the primary way of doing that There's already been for or what about four weeks or four months of trying to promise things to people to get them on your side now as well that hasn't worked for you. Let me let me show you the alternative or let me show you. Who so you think you might be voting for and why you might WanNa think about that again so choices in contrast has always folks do and for the Liberals I was just at the Justin Trudeau Rally in Ottawa? Why this morning? He was obviously thanking mostly volunteers and partisans who were there and say I'll see you on the flip side. I'm about to go across this beautiful country for the next ten days and and so we'll see what is it certainly will be key writings and major media markets and great photo ops. And all that stuff. But I don't WanNa let neal's point get lost. I think I think the last week is going to see. A ton of air were advertising from all accounts the conservative at by has been heavily back loaded. There's a lot of a lot of speculation that it will go negative particular McCain the conservative side but doesn't preclude the liberals from from doing that as well. They seem to have been doing more positive ads. But we're GONNA see a lot of clutter and noise on that we're GONNA see a lot of leader saying you know really think twice about voting for this person because you're going to get that person or really think twice about wearing for that person because they're not gonna be good for your interests well just to wrap this up. I think for the orange gene in this can be very interesting to see what happens to the polls the next week because we are certain. See this surge coming from your side if it continues. I think it's going to be Kavak on this. And it makes me think back to two thousand fifteen gene when the MVP campaign did not really have a plan B.. When things start to move you could see it from the outside and the last ten days of the campaign is all about Stop Harper? Stop Stop Harper literally the MVP had orange stop signs and all their Rallies Stop Harper. Stop number and what's the message worked. Because they went to stop they went to vote for the liberals those who were in the position actually stop them. That's part of what could blow up in the in the liberals face this time on the other side if play the strategic vote. Carter said we have to. We can't we can't habit. Doug Ford Jason Kenney Name Conservative kind of government in Ottawa. They may sing. Is your option and decide to make that flip I think buffet for the MVP one of the big things in in this last week. It's going to be very strategic. Because obviously they're the party with the least resources but they've had some of their best fundraising days year so far in the last week and they've actually raised more money in this campaign gene already than they did all twenty eleven in the big leagues and breakthrough. So the question will be. Do you take that extra bit of resources and put more money into the air war or do you try to get to a few more places. I think it's going to be very interesting to see. Just how strategic they use the reward resources. They've got or how much they're hoping to be able to use their social media game and earned media to push through the door so anyway thanks everyone for coming on. I wish you a happy Thanksgiving and we will do this again next week. The last one before we all vote on the twenty-first I saw this weekend. I I. We're we're we're beavers here. That's what we do day so eh. Thank you all for listening tuning into the blue skies. Tragedy groups team political observers for this week's can Canadian. podcast what you need to know about politics this week. Kadam Blue Sky Strategy Group is one of Canada's leading public affairs firms for government relations lobbying and strategic communications advice across Canada. visit us at blue sky. Strategy Group DOTCOM into blue sky strategy. Group is a proud member of the Global Communications Alliance.
The election ends and now what?
"We're breaking news Canada Votes Twenty Nineteen See TV tonight declaring a liberal minority in the federal election CBC now acting a liberal minority and city projecting a win for the liberals so far they are ahead one hundred forty there were a lot of questions over the to find a way to effectively run the country over the next few months will we be doing this again next year orgy government and strong means they had at least thirty five seats more than second runner conservatives so there's none of the end I'm Jordan Rawlings and this is the big story votes are in John Stall is six eighty Sean's actually be governed for the next match actually I don't know how long will a workable parliament appear over the next few days will the liberals people are listening to this waking up the next morning some of them spared themselves this night so what are they waking up to waking up to a strong liberal his political affairs specialist he joins us in a quiet spot in a busy newsroom as we wind down our election coverage here late at night i John dissipated permission required from the Governor General Ordeal making that has to take place between Justin Trudeau in any of the other leaders Canadian federal election ended with an answer that leads to more questions this election is in the books is done but how will national treasury is astounding and generally you don't do that within a month talking to anybody you'd be smart to talk to people as as we go forward but that's what he can do just go in there and govern and every piece of legislation the first one would be thrown speech right there requires vote in the House of Commons he just puts it on the table and says go ahead wary of of being definitive about this it's we we don't offer comments overnight or in the next few days to establish a government it essentially means he could if he wants to just continue to govern as though he has a majority really and also the other parties are if they're not broke they spent most of their money the none of them could afford to mount another campaign conservatives probably could is that risky well it would be risky under other circumstances but nobody in realistically no other party is going to bring him down within a month why not trigger an election because the country would be furious yes person you know having to go through another election the cost of an election to the the he's running for office with all of those unanswered questions it is only fitting that the forty third ocean vibes I like the quiet chatty talk and I love the excitement of a newsroom on election night there's nothing like we're glad we could still you for a few minutes the first budget frankly it'll be two years that he could pretty much stay yeah before it's reasonable for an opposition to to consider in all the discussion leading up to this election when there were the conversations about a coalition but the end ep couldn't the green couldn't individual candidates couldn't so it it's unlikely they bring him down the first week I you know throne speech he could last longer if he gets the support of the MVP which is very likely to give him that support ever have is Being somewhat of a kingmaker using that leverage now as we go to bed or wake up this morning the number of seats that he women in and should Justin Trudeau resign if he doesn't have as many seats as the Conservatives everybody's sort of was coming at it from the point of view of the opposition would try to bring down comment when they could well eventually they do the question is how long does that take you know what is reasonable length of time so what would that look like has is almost equal to the difference between the Liberals and the Conservatives right so when it gets contentious if the Liberals can rely on Jagmeet Singh support on ever subleasing is more likely to keep them alive where it gets contentious on things like the pipeline if the liberals want to go forward with this pipeline I mean Jagmeet sings best case scenario out of this is that he has a degree of balance of power he's Never GonNa win so the most influence he could a case basis how does that change the platform that Trudeau was presenting in this election probably not unfolding kind of legislative policy they pledged during the election so they may withhold install the big ones like the the pipeline because it would just be difficult for the kind of support regions by trying to tie Doug Ford in and and Jason Kenney so the one on the one hand he wants to should does as a as a game plan to gamble on what they call the investments in people conservatives a call that wild wasteful reckless spending election that he is partly responsible for not solely but partly by trying to pit Ontario and Alberta against the other so he drew the the the wedge into the campaign by saying these other guys are the and they said they do they bought it well that's kind of my next question is how does governing from a minority position whether he's working with the end ep or with the block on a case the country well a lot of things none of them I don't think we're very important but they they choose can the big picture but the liberals lots of people wanted to do the right thing for Alberta and help them through this economic challenge with the pipeline and the other he's got to repair the damage that's been done in this election and how quickly will the Conservatives be looking at their strategy which I think everybody knows we we talked about it when we did our podcast about the Ontario Angle and the the smartest play in retrospect in retrospect but but what happens to the Conservatives now a little boy that's hard to say quired on the MVP site however conservatives on that they would oppose the government on most other things might say yes to the pipeline right that'll be a contentious issue from guys like Ford and Kenny who really took the brunt of his victory all over this election but again he chose that because I was the only difference that he could which no other damages ever been done for like this that's what I was GonNa ask you as you've seen a lot of uh elections how what made this one different in terms of fracture the contracts they really custody we just ask you really quickly can we just ask you what your we get wicked it distinguish himself from the conservative camp by and it became a little vicious in a little bit too personal well one of the questions I had was about Doug Ford and I think it worked but there's a lot of damage done along the way I mean how does he sit down for a first ministers conferencing get cooperation on other issues very few first term government's ever lose in the first election so there's a victory of sorts ones who are going to cost you lots of money because they're going to raise taxes and they're going to they don't work for the little people and all that so he he drew that and pointed to on the ground let's go back a little bit he lost two years pretty much guaranteed without anybody bringing them down for the sake of bringing them down dangerous to what surprised you about the results we saw last name the size of the block AVEC walk super hadn't nothing going for it then it's it's only the leader Mr Blanchette who really was able to coalesce support in rebuild a party behind him and it was shoe and got a hard job ahead I mean he's got to repair the kind of damage that's been done across the country there's a whole national unity crisis now that is a result of this assertive victory could unseat this this liberal government which road very high for the first two years and if it wasn't for I don't know that in two years and away they go whether they all stick with under shear for that or not hard to say at this stage brearley they'd be chatter about replacing them but that's it totally personality based That surprised me I didn't see this coming year ago and there was chatter that they were growing so that level of support in Quebec election which was to keep Doug Ford out of the public eye I already saw some people on our on our broadcast and other broadcast tonight saying in the conservative circles saying maybe that was conservatives even though they would have wanted to finish better and have the minority going there favor they did hold a majority government to a minority in the second term Hyundai in the House of Commons from ninety five to whatever it ends up being on the other hand there are a lot of conservatives who feel like Trudeau screwed up so bad rebuil- I would likely be more than the combined other parties opposing it which would be the block of the in the PC's and just based on that like crazy and this was there's to win given what Trudeau left them with on the other hand after made in terms of seeking a DP for that rank company how he treated the two women that that raise the concern was any one thing it was just a kind of humilation of disappointments and surprises I think in the way the Ah what whatever other you know mistakes and he never got you a lot of conservatives thank a stronger conservative leaders should have capitalist thought it was possible but a year ago it was I'm in my view impossible to think that you know what happens this one if the animosity continues and the Conservatives get their legs it could happen in an election and a half if in don't think they'll replace Andrew Scher right away he has increased their I mean the positive is he has increased their seats two and a half years from now we're into another election as a result of the minority government situation instead of four it could be a conservative victory and that would be a election Kenny and and deduct Ford Ford in particular playing what he knew has been a troublesome year for Ford in Ontario and to some extent strategists take a look at public opinion at the outset
Recapping a crucial federal leaders debate
"But not always I completely struggled coming out to my parents as a comedian being in the entertainment industry for a Middle Eastern people is unheard of affecting change. I'm trying to winter and I'm almost law welcome to chosen family every second week we talk about art sexuality and identity with a special guest usually for more C._B._C. podcasts Goto C._B._C.. Dot C._A. Slash podcasts. All right this is front burner fasciitis this is a CBC podcast Hello I'm Jay parcel and today where the two of them stand in the polls there naked neck any little bit of movement can start momentum going and then can change the trajectory of the election for either party so something that demarcated his performance I guess and his approach to the debate right right away right and and then they also have this thing in the debate where the leaders ah who works on and I say that because if you're a person who just sat down and watched that entire debate from start to finish and let's say you weren't super decided yet no that did not work on you fire the only two people in your caucus who are speaking out against what you're trying to do just for telling the truth tell me when did you decide that the thought he can't even remember how many times he put black face on because the fact of the matter is he's always wearing a mask he puts on a reconciliation mask and then fires we're going to break down the federal leaders debate the first featuring old six major party leaders it was a real chance for all of them to sell you on their vision for this the Attorney General the first one of indigenous background he puts on a middle-class mask and then raises taxes on Middle Class Canadians was definitely asked other leaders questions which I kind of loved because he didn't end up asking questions they just sort of ended up asking questions statements that were quite allstone apply to you yeah but a boom earn yeah I mean very purposeful move by Mr Scherr it was clear from the outset not just in the to drop it was a very pointed attack from Mr Sheer towards Mr Trudeau not that we didn't expect there to be those kinds of attacks but right away he called him a phoney and a fraud start right away with Andrew share what do we see from injury share right at the gate so right out of the gate it was possibly the moment that I think caused the most jaws and so how did he do there yeah he's basically positioning himself again solely versus Mr Trudeau as I'm GonNa make your life less expensive it wasn't a surprise that he was so directly aimed at Mr Trudeau and I think also it was a bit based on or at least Genesis Genesis of it rather was a bit based on conservative voter the stuff under share was saying resonates with you and in fact his performance probably the forcefulness with which he delivered those statements also resonates with you which eight of their lines verbatim so they had to land those messaging points because even if a portion of the audience is new to becoming engaged in this election surprise it almost seems so he was ready for the fight this do you think these negative attacks work is a good strategy for injuries here so it depends on country so let's get right to it let's not waste any time here Fascia Palos his here host of power and Politics Hive Ashi Hi Jamie thanks for being here my pleasure then yes you haven't the opportunity to communicate the essence of your campaign and I think actually to be fair both of them did that in this debate is the last debate the French one for tale where Mr Trudeau had come out very strong enforced kind of attacking Mr Shear off the bat and it had sort of like taking Mr Central Campaign theme affordability it's time for Canadians to have a break are universal tax cut will mean eight hundred fifty dollars in the pocket of a hardworking average income Katie speaks to the strategy that the Conservatives are employing right now which is to motivate they're already very secure base to go out and vote tells you a lot about what they think their chances are and where voting booth the other thing that was pretty clear to me was at Andrew Scheer wanted to take every opportunity he had when he wasn't hammering Trudeau to hammer home his the polls are right now because in a breakdown where each side the liberals and the Conservatives have a hold of their base it's about motivating them to get vote for you right right they just want to get them to the around the world I don't I don't know if it really chipped away at the conservative vote I mean time will tell on that I don't know how effective they were felt like Mr Bernie was kind of all of he just immediately turns to Trudeau he gets quite a few laughs and he just nails him on Avalon and ethical breaches and feel like I'm a bad judge of how this went over only because I've heard both their lines on these subjects ad nauseam three million times and I can't take it anymore purpose I my guess is that they maybe didn't in fact they probably help Mr Shears 'cause only in so far as Mr Scherr was able to say look can absolutely be proud of Canada's history you can be proud of our identity you can be proud of the things we've done and accomplished in the world while at the same time welcoming people from all had seventy billion dollars debt and you are you a real conservative no I think you are liberals and like what did he the map and saying what are the things that he said before without a ton of like factual evidence to back up the things he was saying and then he just pivoted after Trudeau you could see that's where his attention was yes very much so Mr Trudeau Trudeau is going to make it more expensive are universal tax cut drastically is is much better for middle income canes than his proposal just for those of us who have heard this like you know false dichotomy five hundred tonnes overhead also just talking about sweet burns tonight there was that really good who are likely to become prime minister why wasn't I hearing more from both of them and I'm not saying that's a slug on any of them I do think that is a function primarily of the format more we're going to give this tax cut. The child fitness tax credit the Green Home Tax Credit Trudeau makes her life more expensive the carbon tax and then Trudeau says you guys own in the tenor that his comments took were that question that you're referencing but that he was it was like all eyes are on for him in this debate and that's understandable given he's getting a lot of questions particularly from Elizabeth May in this debate on that and about some of the claims he makes about the progress that his government has made parts of credit for that industry are also got attacked from the right maxine Bernie a you don't want to balance the budget in two years you will in kinds of questions coming at them but Trudeau did spend some time during the night defending his record when he did know what was he defending and how Oh and I think it would just turn you off politics as a whole and that that's a statement on lots of the cross talk to the whole thing nobody can nobody acc says we must do and he was getting a lot of questions from Andrew Scheer on the whole messaging around affordability Justin Trudeau's attack on small businesses about how he's too close to corporations basically into Corporate Candida into wealthy Canadians you criticized Mr Harper and conservatives on giving billions to billionaires in corporations on from Andrew Scheer turned trudeau invoking Doug Ford you seem to be oddly obsessed with provincial politics there is a vacancy do you think he did he was defending it in the same way that he has for the past two years I would say on many of the same issues primarily climate they talk about Trudeau so I found myself a few times this debate I don't know if you would agree with me nothing about climate change were the only to do something choice tonight is do we pick a government that doesn't believe in climate change or in fighting like I could literally delivery explain how they would work he had a lot of airtime but I'm not sure really Like Landon any knockout blows on sheer I mean share basically address Maxime Bernier as though and this could be a function of the format as well but I felt like there wasn't enough trudeau and share you know like I if you're sitting there and you're deciding between the two to new markets so we can invest all all the resources all the money coming in from this pipeline into that green energy transition and while it sound so far which earned completely true the scientists clear your target is a commitment to failure. That's why it's so doable and achievable because it doesn't do what the for example the pipeline that maybe you do need to get resources to market but you also should be protecting the environment and and it sounds like a contradiction at times coming from him but I think there's a reason that he keeps using the threatening them making it harder for them to grow and expand and offer the types of opportunities that lead to the jobs that have much higher income earnings and even from Jagmeet Singh it's more than than removing it does and yeah I I agree with you that you know part of this as a function of the debate there were a lot of players on that stage and a lot of different types of middle ground lines and that's because there's a large swath of voters lying there okay so we spend a Lotta time defending his record but I have to say I didn't hear him hear what you're saying we'll be signing if you are a conservative voter and this is who I think in a and from speaking people on the war room this is who this was aimed at if you are leaning concern into invest in the middle class and people working hard to join it lifted nine hundred thousand people out of poverty including three hundred thousand kids we gave more support for students going do lie in that space right like there's a lot of people in the middle who I'm not saying this subscribe to the Justin Trudeau version of it or the low version of it but they do believe on issues of in the context of a debate very wishy washy because others are able to take a very concrete position in fact if you look through much of the polling out there a lot of Canadian really not right like there wasn't a lot of stuff put in the window but at the same time that is also a function of what we were just talking about that he was getting Criticize tried to yeah so you know shears question may pick any leader of your choice than any question of your choosing is an attacked whatever you WANNA call it from all sides during this debate so most of his quote unquote airtime was basically just trying to defend himself against that you gave fourteen billion more questions this why do you keep letting down the people that voted for you he uses similar defense which is that he has in a lot of these subjects which is asking myself where is Justin Trudeau and what did you make of his performances. He felt a bit absent to me on on several occasions. Yeah I did I did feel talk a lot about what he wanted to do with his next mandate do you think that that's enough right to just defend what you did in the previous four years and that but yeah he was I mean he was part of the debate he wasn't he certainly wasn't like dominating Mr Trudeau five seconds are a price on pollution helps Canadian to put more stuff out there more details about what he has planned but essentially the liberals home messages like we've done an okay job so keep us going right like keep keep voting for raise a good question like is that enough for people who are looking for something where substantial when deciding what snacks getting it from both flanks their industries basically saying you're spending your way you know you're spending your way to a bad situation for Canadians in juggling his talking will we may go more supports for seniors yeah again I feel like if you're somebody watching trying to make up your mind about who to entrust the government with over the next four years problem oh he does not have four years of leadership to run on what was he pitching Canadians tonight and how did he do I think if he pitched anything successfully tonight it was himself I I know there's a lot of other things specifically that has platform gets into I don't know if that was necessarily the strongest part of his performance about extreme he did I was actually really interested to see if the attacks from the right vis-a-vis Max would have an impact in this debate and I'm not an you think this I think this especially like on issues of immigration or the more extreme issues that Bernie has talked about before what Mr Bernie fails understand is that went out of the courts but he's GonNa drag indigenous kids to court that is wrong yeah positions he's articulated before in he did so confidently tonight I thought the let's Jagmeet Singh next who I will say I think doesn't distract the middle ground basically on climate for example Yes we bought a pipeline but either you have to grow the economy and you also have to protect the environment we need to get all right he said something like I don't even know who I'm talking to the maxine Bernie from the one thousand nine hundred who was a separatist was that the vaccine Bernie who is minister responsible for handing out corporate welfare thing that really set him apart from the crowd tonight was his disposition his level of comfort and almost an ability that the others didn't have tonight the fortunes of over twenty million dollars we're GONNA ask them to pay a little bit more yes we think they should very critical of the liberals on indigenous issues he wanted to fight hard to keep snc the same thing so yeah slogan move forward with a yeah so it it speaks a little bit too to that as well but Mr Missing Pardon me Mr Scherr over deal I dunno people giving me mix up option there is another option out there but he did have a very tough question to contend with from just introduced bill. twenty-one the bill messed up because those are pretty horrible tweets that you made in that's I don't mean that as like a very specific criticism of the other people like I could not imagine being in their shoes for sure even into this debate or Larry last week has he has I think you can you can say that he has outperformed them and I think that translated tonight he act prevents public service workers from wearing religious symbols like his jabs in turbans on the job the federal government under you would not intervene in the question of Bill Twenty you know basically an accusation that he's not GonNa do anything so I think if anything tempers the results of his performance tonight what part of the spectrum that you sit on he was probably the funniest tonight he had really good one line he has some really good one liners we WANNA do that again Mr Scherr thank you Ashley when the stakes are as high as they are for just drew Andrew Scheer but there is something to be said for the way in which he has conducted himself throughout this campaign so far Canadia he has ideas there he has positions on things there was nothing new again that he offered today that we hadn't heard dental care armageddon or tax the rich to pay for it just hedging of the question was really funny like I'm the only person who might do something I don't even know what that means how do you think Mr Singh handled like you said he had those one liners he was relaxed he seemed very knowledgeable about his own position and like had the ability to make jokes fact polling when it's just about his own numbers bears that out he has momentum behind him it hasn't yet translated to the party as full and I don't know maybe pseudo arguing over climate change he he just basically stopped and said look you do not need to choose between Mr Delay Mr deny there is another to be human and natural and stuff to ask questions front of big crowds and thanks for doing that I mean Mr Verde after hearing what was just said you could have just said hey kind of criticism you have failed to tell the truth is this scandal responsibility of any prime minister is to stand up for jobs and we would have done out maybe Tories Turban on purpose today what does it it was it was it was it was nice to watch seemed quite comfortable but unlike Trudeau one in Quebec it's a question where yes it's awkward politically because as Mr Blanchette says it is very popular I will say although Mr Saying saying you know I'm the only one who's going to do anything and to a degree I guess that's a bit true but none of them are really doing anything nobody wants to intervene in this thing we that that is still to happen maybe takes a bit longer to take hold but like for the expectations that he face coming into this campaign rate and land those one liners and seem yeah humidity's speaking of he probably have the one liner of the night when cheer and it all right and I know that we already saying is taking the position he is is because his caucus has insisted that he ends right like he's listening to his caucus they're saying please do not say that you're going to intervene so and basically every question he received in his scrum was around Bill twenty-one exactly as you described it Mr frame the question and was very pointed towards Mr Wien legally and as you and I have talked about many times you know the MVP is facing like a potential wipeout in Quebec and they have a lot of seats that they could lose their those writings and so he was allowed to participate in the debate to the ire of many of the other parties who said because of the views he espouses he shouldn't be on this stage talk of the debates Mr Bernie was not supposed to be in this debate the commission initially ruled that he could not participate he then was allowed to submit you know certain for the on -Tario liberal leadership and if you're so focused on provincial politics go and run for the leadership of that party and he basically say I have a shot at winning in these five writings the commission then set up polling in those five writings and found yes he does have shot at winning it's not a foregone conclusion that he will lose all AH lots in the air for for Mr Singing and EP in Quebec for a moment the controversy over having him there in the first place and what you think his presence at the debate resulted in it felt like it changed the first twenty minutes of the debate forty nine percent of our population believe that we must have fewer immigrants not racist they're not radical so yeah and Quebec is so important fourteen seats for the MVP they need to hold onto it in fact everyone I speak to in the campaign says the reason that Mr speech only when people are saying things that you want to hear you're asking let me answer it after a couple of minutes of this debate tonight I think people can clearly see why the pieces of data that that complied with or met the criteria that the commission had been assigned to decide on whether or not someone can participate what he did was. We'll be that question around bill twenty-one every single day of my life is challenging people who think that you can do things because of the way you look every single day my life I channel the frustration Sean Maxium Bernie a little bit we talked about maybe his message might not punch through he was kind of all over the place dealing with a lot of different topics but I want to talk about not even sure if if we would have been having that conversation around what makes a good leader and immigration had Maxim Bernie not have been there listing the chief financial financial officer of way way might have been a big mistake and so I just I just felt like that's a lot of Max I think you make a great point I was struck immediately by how much of an impact he had as a disruptor over the course of I would say maybe close to the first they all say they're watching it play it in the courts the differences and something that Mr Joe Actually surprisingly focused on her or emphasized today's that he says he's left the door open to inter and she said which I thought was super interesting and also I think a good place for us to end this conversation She raised the prospect of a minority government and it has agency and power to work together mission possible for climate action we call all hands on deck but I actually also want to focus on one thing the people and I want to be challenged and specifically actually a lot of what he said in the scrum afterwards French media picked up on the comments that both he and Mr Trudeau made she hit on her usual point of none of the leaders are hitting the right targets on emissions sheep after all of them for that we have to restore the idea of real democracy where every citizen the what case do you think she was trying to make to voters I think she's decided that the Liberals are going to win this election
"How do you take down criminal network hidden in the shadows? I tell him that. I know that they're the ones who are running the largest child abuse website on the dark net the journalists working to expose the darkest corners of the Internet. That's your playroom for that's your baby's clothes. That's my house. The police ace who hunt down online predators. The environment. They're using no we didn't we didn't make it. They made it hunting. MOORHEAD subscribe wherever you get at your podcasts. This is a CBC DC podcast. Hi I'm Laura Lynch this podcast from the December eleventh edition of the current. All of us together have finally accomplished what we set out to do at the very outset. A Win Win Win. Agreement which will provide stability for workers in all three of our countries for for many years to come the noon after deal is all wrapped up with a bow just in time for the holidays and Deputy Prime Minister Christa. Freeland may sound Mary. The the latest job numbers declining foreign investment and worries about regional alien are raising fears that the future may not be so bright. And of course who knows if the grinch is lurking in the shadows because new Nafta's still has to be ratified by each country here to look at all of this. Is Our national affairs panel. Katie Simpson is a senior reporter with CBC News. She's been covering the Nafta talks and now the deal and we eastern Mexico City. Heather Scoffield is an economics columnist for the Toronto Star. She's in our Ottawa Studio and Kelly cried. Herman is a Calgary based reporter for the Globe and Mail who covers business and politics and she joins us from there. Hello to you all morning heather. Let's let's start with you. What are the positives? You see for Canada in this new trade agreement. It's a big relief. I think to you Well from from the business community point of view to just have some stability into know that there is something finally written on paper that yes it still has to go through ratification but it looks like ah you know all this. Everything's lined up for that to finally happen so you know for the last three years business every time you want to go and make an investment and every time you want to think where you're going to put your next dollar you've been you've been Surrounded by this uncertainty not knowing what's Donald Trump going to do next asked what he's what's he going to demand for his own economy What are the rules of the game and so you have second thoughts about investing in Canada and so this gives some kind of certainty in a very the very uncertain world? I mean there's all sorts of other things out there for sure but but this is this is one big piece that that is finally settled. Katie you are in Mexico City. What was the mood like among Canadian eighteen delegates at the signing ceremony? Mexico's National Palace. I think there's a sense that this is actually now in the final stretch and they can finally finally proceed with the domestic ratification process. And they're relieved. Everyone thought that this was going to be over about a year ago when they signed off on this does aries the sidelines of the G. Twenty people knew would be difficult with the changing political dynamic in the United States however now there seems to be a bigger sense sense of relief but one thing that I want to point out. That was really strange inside. The Room is when the Americans got up to speak at yesterday signing ceremony it was. US Trade Representative Robert Bert Lighthizer who spoke on behalf of the American delegation. And he was. It almost became uncomfortable the way he was gushing about the American or about out the Mexicans and and how the president was a historic figure and and how they put the best person possible in in this position to negotiate gate. This and they didn't let politics get in the way and the key to that is the Americans were so pleased to get the concessions out of Mexico. Soco's that they were able to get that ball blight heiser was just. He couldn't contain himself at the ceremony. Yesterday okay well we know. Then it's going to be a a big selling point for trump in Washington them but tell us what's in this agreement that allows the Canadian government to frame this as a win win win Kristof religious said well Christopher your freely in the Canadian government is trying to take credit for some of the changes that were added to this agreement and When Nafta negotiations originally began back in two thousand seventeen the the conservatives that actually criticized the Liberals for trying to put some things in there that were to progressive particularly around the environment? Well what do you know two years later when it's time for the Democrats to have a say in all of this in the United States That the environment would be a big deal. So the the changes that have been added to this agreement relate to environmental environmental and labor provisions and making sure particularly in Mexico. The Mexican companies live up to the Labor standards and they've they've sort of changed the onus here that if a company is believed to have been violating the standards and not meeting the standards that have been set out by this agreement. It's up to the company to prove that es in violation of the or it's up to that they are following the rules that are in place it reverses the onus and so there's a big push to make sure that inspections can be done in Mexican facilities to make sure again. There are those standards and make sure that there is the right to collective bargaining in Mexico. Things like that so the major changes are really targeting. are really targeting Mexico but there is one change that really stands out for Canada and that has to do with pharmaceutical drugs. Dogs the new Nafta the the one that was negotiated in two thousand eighteen that all three countries signed off on had this provision that large pharmaceutical companies could develop and be protected texted from generic companies taking their science to make generic drugs for ten years in Canada. The current law or the current rules are eight years so this would give those big pharmaceutical companies two more years to make those big profits and it would mean that the higher drug prices could be charged for an additional two years. Well the Democrats got that entire provision stripped out so it will remain status quo in Canada Kelly. Credit and Calgary what is the view from there is Canada's seen to lost in it in any ground in this agreement. Well I you know I think in For all the reasons that Heather in Katie of laid out there is is a sense of relief that there is any stability and any solid agreement that can really be relied on as as as Canadian companies look for investment as they look for some kind of stability. I think they're this does not put an end to what might happen out of the US. The Donald Trump administration. This does not put an end to the uncertainties there. the ratification process for this will take place in the US. Maybe a day after the impeachment impeachment vote so there there's still a lot of uncertainty. I think what is really interesting to me. Is What is interesting to Albertson's in a lot of respect to is the messaging that came from Christie a freeland on this of course. She emphasized at a in Mexico City yesterday that that this will this new Nafta after deal will require a seventy percent North American aluminum component. Of course that is focused at Quebec Major aluminum producer deuce her and that that was important. Because right away you had Block leader Mr Blanchette saying that. This deal isn't good enough for Quebec so I think the messaging on this back to Canada was really interesting because we have a government. A minority government needs to rely on the other parties. The other parties are going to be looking at the de details details of this deal and and really they will have an actual say in this unlike If if this agreement had come to fruition before The October vote that led to a minority government so I think the messaging back to the Conservatives to the block to the. MVP is really interesting in this case. Heather we we are. There are growing concerns about the health of the Canadian. Economy is this deal is signed. What what did the latest job numbers tell us? Well we had We've had a really great year in terms of job creation until last month. Where where where the where we had a major setback And you know every economist will say okay. Let's let's look past. It's the number you have to. You have to look over over time and not get too carried away about one month But you know there is. There is certainly a lot of concern. I think that the global economy is slowing down And that growth levels in Canada are just not what what we what we've become used to. They're not what they used to be an in and going forward. We won't be seeing a lot of strong growth so You know there. There is a fear that this one month will be a sign of things to come or or that or that. You know we're just heading into a period of of of slow growth and weakness. Generally that even if people are getting jobs they're not getting there. There's just not a lot of momentum. I mentioned in the economy so that our standard of living over time is is eroding. We'll jobs are one thing. Heather what what are other indicators that suggest the country could be heading for recession in two thousand twenty. Well I don't think You know nobody's crying recession yet in a serious way But we do have quite a few challenges on on on the horizon that that that suggests some some times I think investment is one of the one of the things that Quite a few people who are concerned about we had some ups and downs For sure but Especially in the patch. I think Kelly Kelly knows a lot about that but That they in the third quarter. We had some really Concerning serving investment numbers and and you know with all the uncertainty that we see globally That that looks to be a sign of things to come and Kellyanne hustle prized where you by the national numbers given unemployment in Alberta. I was surprised to see such a dramatic turn in the national numbers of course A A low ebb. Economy is something that elbruz been dealing with the last five years and there are a lot of striking numbers in the the statistics. Canada job report for November. Of course it's just one month it's a snapshot but we saw you know not only the Drop in job numbers nationally but in Alberta we we saw another increase in the unemployment rate another eighteen thousand jobs lawson and really strikingly a really high jump in the unemployment rate among young young men Under age twenty five basically in one in five young men in Alberta under the age of twenty five is unemployed right now according to the November numbers. And you know if that's not a political issue I don't know what is when you have young men without work and what was really striking to me. This week is Federal Finance Minister Bill. More no saying he doesn't He doesn't worry too much about recession. And I worry about that personally because we have in Canada in the global economy seen years of growth and anytime That cyclical process reaches this point. I think you know policy-makers he makers need to be very worried about recession about A lot of a lot of possible headwinds. So I just you know and the concern from Alberta's Verte whether The federal liberals are taking those economic concerns seriously of course Katie during the election campaign the liberals promised to deliver on on both climate action action and economic growth and. I'm wondering how much of the agenda hinges on bringing foreign investment back all that is certainly something that has been a challenge for the liberal government when it was when it had its majority mandate I think one thing that we're going to see a now that this the big chunk of the Nafta negotiations is sort of put to bed and Christopher Freeland freeland. Can you know get back to Canada. Take on this new role that she can sort of focus less on that candidate. US relationship and now focus on making sure that the concerns of of the prairies and the concerns parts of Canada that you know ended up you know the Liberals didn't win any seats in Alberta Saskatchewan and a big concern about that is has the economic climate and that's a big part of what is going on with the political result. We saw the twenty a nineteen election so now the Christa Freeland has has finished dealing with this abroad Justin Trudeau can lean on her. And we know that she's already started sort of an impromptu listening tour speaking with premier speaking with other Leaders to try and find find out ways that they can hear the concerns of the people that lives in those in those parts of the country and a big concern. There is investment in the economic climate. Speaking of Premieres Kelli Kelli. The Jason Kennedy was in Ottawa. Yesterday I met with the Prime Minister. Was He hoping to win from his meeting with Justin Trudeau. You know. I think most of all he was hoping to win attention for The the economic issues and The political issues that he's bringing up at a time where there is national focus focused on Alberta and Saskatchewan issues because of the the election results because the liberals were completely shut out of Alberta and catch one. There is attention on this and and and you know while while the federal government sees this as a pressing issue rather than you know international trade disputes. I think Mister sure Kenny is going to work that for all it's worth and you know the the things that he's asking for The headline items. Of course our you know guaranteed timeline for the completion. The Transmission Trans Mountain pipeline expansion A lift on the cap on the Fiscal Stabilization Fund which Jason Kenney very very politically has called a rebate on equalization even though it's not And he he is looking for some kind of wiggle room from the the federal government on Algirdas issues given the economic circumstances given that Alberta's economy has diverged so much from the national economy in the last five years. He's he's looking for some kind of he's looking for some kind of reset in the relationship. As you know Kristie of freeland takes over the the interprovincial file and I think you know while he's not going to get any kind of result this week there is going. I mean to be a push from Alberta for some kind of movement from Ottawa in the weeks and months ahead and and that will be watched very closely. Okay how do you think anything resulted from from that meeting. Yesterday that would allow Canada to claim progress. If not victories will. He didn't leave with any money in his pocket but I don't think he came with that in mind. I think he very successfully frame the conversation around Albertus demands but he so so he's he said what the conversation will be about over the next few months it's and You know and set the stakes out very clearly to to the population of Alberta. But it's also interesting. He stood down Actually early on on his demand to change See Forty eight NC sixty nine which he calls the new pipeline bills No more pipeline bills Those are those are the the bills that were passed last Towards the end of the the last parliament that that changed the way that the government oversees and Approves Natural Resource Development So so Jason. Kenney has has conceded publicly that okay the federal government is not going to change those. And he's he's he's changed how he's framed that conversation around approval of of natural resource development. So that's pretty pretty important and also you know by by focusing on the fiscal stabilization aspect of of transfer payments he's moved away from that equalization conversation as well which was A. I mean that was just an a nonstarter for for everybody involved. So you know there's been a bit of give and take and I think he. He's he's trying to convey a sense that he's leaving Ottawa with a bit of a warm and fuzzy feeling about the future conversations with auto with with the federal government but there has been a lot of movement I think on both sides here so far. How do you take down criminal network hidden in the shadows? Tell him that. I know that they're the ones who are running. The the largest child abuse website on the dark nets the journalists working to expose the darkest corners of the Internet. That's your playroom for. That's your baby's is close. That's my house. The police who hunt down online predators right the environment that they're using no we didn't we didn't make it. They made hunting moorhead ahead. Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. Katie I want to touch on another development yesterday. China hinted that the two Canadians who have been detained for a year. Michael Covert and Michael are detained in China. They could face trial. What could did this mean for the fate of them? Well it certainly. It's IT IT'S A. It's a significant development in this whole process. Remember these two men. These two Canadians have. I've been held in a detention centre with little information about what's going on no access to a lawyer and and really no certainty or no clarity about what's going on now there or a couple of scenarios here in some cases in China when things go to trial there have been situations where okay You know They can he moved through the legal process. And and and perhaps This China's justice system isn't like the Canadian justice system and things can sort of be dropped here and there as they go or or you. Can you can sort of look at it in another way. And that is another serious debt. Moving forward any sort of development involving the two michaels a massive concern for the government but China has made it abundantly clear. Nothing is going to change in the Canada China relationship. It is going to be difficult until the Canadians unless the Canadians released Mung Wong. Joe The wall way executive. She was arrested by Canadian. Authorities at the request of the Americans on an extradition request and and the Chinese have made aided directly abundantly clear until she is let go trying to pressure pressure pressure Ottawa. To make that happen The Canada China relationship is going to be difficult. Donald they of course in retaliation it's widely seen as retaliation. They arrested the two michaels Michael. Covert the former diplomat and Michael savage the former or he is an the An entrepreneur in China of course canola dispute China stopping purchasing large swath of Canadian canola and there was the the meat dispute and the only only reason that China had to relent on that is because China had a I believe it was a swine flu epidemic and they were running out of port and they just badly needed pork for the Chinese people for the Chinese people so they had to relent on not because anything's actually changed in the relationship but because they really had no choice so this situation is going to remain bad until there is some sort of development on the Mung Joe Front and Really Canada has dug in its ground saying we are a rule of law country. We are not going to just release this person because You are pressuring us. We're going to go through the legal channels. We are going to continue with this process. And so whatever is happening sitting over in China with the two michaels. It's always going to relate back to what's going on in Canada. We have about a minute left and that actually leads me into my next question. which is the government suffered? Its first defeat if you will yesterday. When the opposition parties passed a motion to set up a special committee to review all aspects of the candidate China relationship? What's at stake? There are two things going on there. One was minority government politics. I think the opposition parties You found something. They landed on something that they could agree on and wanted to flex their muscle and remind the government. Right away. That I in a nonthreatening way. And that you know this doesn't trigger an election or anything But by setting up this committee that they have the power to to do you know to to At least express themselves in this in this new configuration. But I think it's also reflective of the broader public that there's a restlessness in a great frustration in dealing with China. There's a you know a pressure to to find a solution and if there is no obvious solution it's so complicated But you know the Conservatives have been pushing for to be tougher on China The business community has been Over having meetings in in in China There's a restlessness of like. Please can we just be on this. Find a way to get out of this. So that we can increase our trade the trade the trade volumes back and forth forth with Canada and China or down quite a bit this year compared to last year. And I think you know where people are really starting to get You know they want to see some progress on that all right we will leave it there. Katie Simpson is a senior reporter with ABC News and in the New Year. She's taking up a new post in Washington. DC So we'll try to get to their global affairs Kennel Panel Katie. Thank you thanks have. This field is an economics columnist for the Toronto Star. She's an Ottawa and Kelly. Kreider man is a Calgary based reporter for the Globe and Mail. Thanks all of you thanks. Thank you for more see podcasts. Go to C._B._C.. Dot C._A. Slash podcasts.
China Relations, Online Privacy & Quebec Secularism
"Welcome to this week's episode of Blue Skies Tragedy Groups a Canadian podcast. Will you need to know about this week in in Canadian politics. I'm Alison Fair. And this week I am joined by my colleagues Jeff. Turner Cam Hallstrom morning and Neo Brody pretty good morning. Ra guys happy Friday. It's been a busy week. On on the hill we saw A lot of interest in is this China Canada relations committee. I know you guys some of you have been watching it with interest and and I just wanted to get your thoughts will neal. We'll start with you. A lot of commentary on the Conservatives being a little harsh on Dominic Barton headed as ambassador to China has has this turned into a partisan committee. Now when it wasn't supposed to be well a few things I think most of the questions were good asks of of the of the of the ambassador. I don't think there's any question that was Untoward perhaps dwelling on questions or or badgering during Mr investor Barton About certain topics was a disservice It it as a former political staffer I understand stand the need to have a partisan political theatrics at certain committee meetings That serves your political interest But as a Canadian I was hoping for more from the the candidate China relations committee. This is a as as Ambassador Gardens said This is a country that can't be ignored their got a rising middle class. They've got needs for agriculture energy and other experts. That Canada has Candid handed in most of the rest of the world is reliant on them for certain amount of manufacturing capabilities and And doing a study on this relationship. Hip for Canada should help the government plot its course in relations with China for the next ten or fifteen years But delving into whether Mr Barton when he was ahead of McKinsey did this or did that a relevant question but dwelling on it for six or ten minutes of committee was was is No useful What was not useful time? Spent Cam it too much theatrics and not enough substance. Since I'm less concernable theatrics immortal. The tone and I agree with Neil a former staffer myself who spent a lot. Who that was? My daily Wick was prepping for committee writing writing questions and doing that research. tone matters and I'll be honest. It's kind of traditionally taken that when you have civil servants or people in serving serving in civil service rules like as an ambassador they get a certain degree of respect when they come before committee. They're not partisan they're treated with that kind of respect and they're not attacked and to have seen Particularly Mr Janice even used probably the worst offender of the group especially with his comment rate. The start. Basically saying you weren't. I don't believe you should should have been in this job and I still don't believe it. I think that set a tone that was regrettable and I don't think it helped the case and I think undercut some of the very good substantial questions they ask because really at the end of the. I've been watching. What the parts are trying to do in trying to accomplish in this space and we see the government really tried to talk a lot of current policy and get more information out there on which is needed? I see the conservative really drilling down. Maybe a little too deeply but drill down in specific points and wind documentation. They've asked for lots of documentation. We saw this with Mr Barton or master Burton where he was asked. We want list of meetings. Who you met with Monday? met with him. Once you talked about in Table Out the committee we saw that with the what prior witnesses says well and for the end EP. It's been there constrained in fact. They only have so many questions time. They can ask but they've been more circumspect and how they're going at trying to get those same details as well to me the interesting to watch the block in this because the block. Frankly I don't think they figure out what they want from this committee up there. But didn't they defend him. Talk to two hundred to two degree. The example that I'll give is that the block member Mr Barroso as had basically eight minutes to ask questions and he spent about seven of asking the exact same question three times over that not a sign of someone who's exactly gotten agenda but I think the important thing to take away from this. Is that going forward word. I think the The ambassadors of appearance first appearance. I'll say because he could be so call back again I think it shows you. What's going to come from this committee and give we now have good idea what everyone's trying to get out of this The one thing I will say is that. I don't think that this committee was ever intended not to be partisan minority parliament. There's always GONNA be some partisan angle. The question is how far you take that and really what are you trying to come up with a policy position. That's that helps your political ends. Or are you just trying to go out and KNEECAP recap people make the government look bad and I saw more of the latter than the former this time and I think if that continues is not that that's not serving us very well especially our interests with China because one because Mr Dot ambassador and was right about this we are seeing in the international scene. Now our biggest ally the Americans taking more of a step back leaving vacuum and we're seeing nations like China step into that vacuum to fill it not just between us but in other nations we see them more more active of an Africa and the Caribbean on aid on development. And everything else so we that relationship we have with Zan becomes all the more important because they are taking taking a bigger role on the world stage dumb. The Ambassador Barton said the chill is real is that you agree with that. Jeff husband for for over a year. I don't think anybody is is under an illusion that we're not in a relationship crisis. I don't overplay the crisis word but a relationship crisis and I think that what we're seeing is the division on whether That is a useful moment to change. How we Treat this relationship and and treat the issues that associated with it or how we Continue to try to build that relationship so that we may influence that so I think that's a that's division we're seeing. I agree with my colleagues that in the minority parliaments Everything is political and what we are talking about in the partisanship side is is whether it's too political or not. I mean it's always going to be political political and and I and Mr Barton was obviously the most important guest of this last week A bit of a crescendo. Following a number of public service Senior levels idioms deputies briefing the committee And I think two cans point I. It is a shame that that that some of those people were not treated with a bit more respect to public servants But really it's it's pretty transparent. I mean the opposition has been spending their energy trying to get blood in the water. Because this is just a preview this is just the opening act this is. This is literally the trailer of the the film that we just saw this week because next is going to be coming the Prime Minister of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and other other high value targets. So I think what the opposition doing is trying to scare up some drops so blood in the water out of these official briefings right who've you met with. When did you meet with them? You know D- And and and actually point out in the meeting. What is the most damaging thing that came out of that meeting? That was the the highlight of question period. The next day he flubbed his answer about whether dual citizen was a false citizen or not I think his answer was intended. That in the eyes of the Chinese government he is is not a Canadian citizen. Therefore I'm I'm not having access. They took that. You're you're muddling the issue on whether citizenship is a citizenship. This is this is showpiece issue has actually very little to do with the work of this committee right because what they're trying to do is find those little things to throw at the big the big fish when they come in and bring in and Jerry Butts actually tweeted he said spent a lot of time recruiting people into public service the callousness with which people who should know better are treating him the ambassador and the guests is a vivid example of why so many people say well sure and and and I think that's a comment on our larger politics right now. We can talk about any number of those angles including what's happening in south of us in terms of how people treat government or think of government as as a as outsiders I think But look at this this behavior if you WANNA call it out of this strategy strategy I think it underlines the importance of this committee. This committee is actually a very very. I think it's going to be come down. As one of the more important things happened in this minority term because inevitably it's going to impact how the Canada China policy file is managed in the future and it may not be because we make it you. You know there's some stark policy change that directly flows. You know the committee. It's to be reminded has no direct policy. Levers all they can do shame the government into doing something or propose Novel or good solutions at the government adopts or is forced to adopt by political necessity But either way it's going to bend the curve From starting a couple of weeks ago through the term and this community. It's going to bend that curb and the question is how does it bend that curve As a political instrument that then becomes policy reality down on the road. And so I I oh my only other thing I would just say for those who are hearing media. Maybe for the first time Hopefully on this podcast but in in media stories and other things it's not to be underestimated how important this committee will be for those Institutions businesses universities. Right school systems. Anybody that actually has a direct linkage to To to China in terms of export or import people have directly China in terms of foreign students or research. Money any you know And then obviously on the business skaters. There's a whole depth of relationship there. That committee is we'll have ripple effects on those things they need to pay attention to it and that's why blue sky is also paying attention to give a quick plug for over sure so anyway. You've alluded that we've been watching this closely. And that's that is a good a good point to say We are following this community. We have a product that is available to subscribers and We basically do a full analysis of every meeting. We we give a bit of a blow by blow in a dispassionate view and then we provide our analysis To just try to help people understand what happened today and where it's going to be able to. Because he touched on thinking real real key thing of this about the way the all the different going at it and it wasn't what happened in the last meeting with the ambassadors happening the previous meeting because when we when we have the big witnesses witnesses we do pretend to pay more attention and we see things but in the previous meeting we had officials coming from From from a global affairs and for the Ministry of Justice kind of bathroom and certain things and wh and the second testimony win the Ministry of Justice officials were there towards the very end Mister Genus actually asked a series of questions questions regarding extradition to China. And have we have we had discussions and whatnot and the answer made question. Lead question compare the next day and I think this is a cycle. You're going to see happen. Is that all of a sudden these answers they elicit more information than they kinda start leads down the rabbit holes. I think that's where this committee becomes so important to what not just the for the job. Not just the operation of our government but the political I too because when all of a sudden you have a departmental official coming before they're saying yes there's been informal discussions Russians with China in the past about extradition treaty. But we really can't tell you about that that That raises a lot rates. I think we're GONNA see more. It goes through. It's more people could brought out and I I honestly it isn't much must watch stuff and it's going to spiral for this'll be as big as the Afghan detainees committee in I for your when that was two thousand eight two thousand nine. So what are you looking ahead Neil in this committee in the committee as I think it was camera are Jeff while those the only two. There's another person I'd be surprised you know. The the the approved mandate of the committee is to call the prime minister. And the Minister of if Foreign Affairs and another minister who keeps me at the moment maybe trade. I can't remember Before the committee that's That'll be that'll be complete three ring. Circus The committee meetings tend to go two or three hours long so getting the prime minister in front of a committee for two hours or forcing him to say I'm not coming for two hours Only coming for an hour will be the tip of the iceberg of the three ring circus and following on from that will be as as As was mentioned every witnesses being asked for a list of meetings who you met with. How long did you meet with them when did you? When did you talk about them? Those lists will then provide died Fodder for witness lists going through the rest of the spring and into the Early part of the summer of the hosts sitting and it'll be corporate people people it'll be other government officials June officials senior officials. Anybody who's who who whose name is Is Is Put forward on a on a on a submission from a witness will have the potential to be called I'll note that Mr Albus asked The ambassador boat The masters meetings with while we executives and asked for a list to be submitted to the committee of who they met with from hallway. Wonder they meet with them. What was discussed and I expect you know? I don't think it's surprised that we expect away to be called before the committee and as this goes along they'll be more and more people on that list being called before the committee. I want to bring up something else that happened of interest this week. Take Canada's privacy watchdog. isn't the The favorite social media giant facebook to court. I want to get your thoughts. Jeff good thing to declare that facebook brought the law and are we. It's about time. I know this is taken awhile on facebook and the Privacy Commissioner of had a hate relationship right now but where do we see this going so zooming out from facebook just for a second. I mean the broader Tack Revolution of the Last Ten tanner twelve years in particular with the smartphone revolution. You know to use their own verbiage. Anthony to use FACEBOOK's own verbiage. They moved fast and they broke stuff and they wanted. I do that and we rewarded that as a society Because it was intriguing and they were an obviously the the sky was the limit. And all these new things and it was amazing using. But you know let's just focus. They move asking. They broke things and and the things. They've broken her are starting to cut our feet right. And that's the hard part so I think what's happening happening is they're starting to get caught up to actually don't want to ascribe to much moral blame although I do have a serious reservations about facebook In their spread of disinformation such it just specially in the US context quick sidebar. I've read a piece in the Atlantic just recently published by McKay coppins. It's it's called. The billion dollar disinformation campaign pain and just the the for the narrative of signing up a pseudonym facebook account signing up to all the magazine and then just the the pipeline of crazy that is funneled by facebook into that that person's eyeballs isn't isn't credible which translate that. This is a real world policy problem. That now is a result of. You've the the genie being out of the bottle. And I don't know whether I'm not trying to say that. The G should never come into the bottle but the reality is we are now facing very real world problems generated by the virtual the world's explosion into our every facet of our life And so I think we have to catch the playing catch up the governments. I think Having been in some who are trying to deal Jio with Necessarily social media other tech disruptors you know governments really paying themselves to be flexible. And maybe that's being generous but I think they. They weren't sure what to do. The industry was not really interested in engaging them to say this is what we think you should do because they just said. We're here break stuff and and I think of Uber. The other one is Uber. Driver drove told me crazy for years. All it was was one accident in quadriplegic away and somebody's insurance saying well. That person's insurance doesn't cover you an uber so we're just offer company. I am sorry that person's paralyzed. That's not cool and there are real world consequences of those things are now. That's what's catching up to us. Neil do you think what do you make of this a I challenge. -Tarian is not backing away from facebook anytime soon. Well to disclosures upfront I'm not a facebook user. Never have been I. I can't maybe when I retire. If it's still around I may be Have that sort of time too. But you still have. You'll be solve your minds base. Pay Trade No actually my stage stage either. A hotmail account and and second disclosure. I was on the Search Committee for the Privacy Commissioner when Mr Terry was selected as privacy commissioner so so I don't know what that means. I thought I'd say that just to to to to let listeners know come clean listen I not speaking of facebook specifically just like Jeff said is is hard because we have now over the last ten or fifteen years Allowed are allowed allowed ourselves as individuals to be gobbled up by data data searching companies Whether it's Google whether it's Amazon whether it's facebook whether it's twitter whether it's any number of other ones that I don't know about because I'm not keeping cool survey The the ability to the processing power in the connectivity that allows large companies to gather your data and then monetize it somehow whether it's through through ads or through Selling you things In in case of Amazon ads. But you know selling your product so if you bought this product you might like this product to Having those purveyed into things like I go to the nut to whether I go to the Global Mail or National Post they all say too so where they go to national national national poster Global Mail. I get ads for stuff. That I've searched on Google I'm of a generation where I've it Kinda accepted that I g account if I'm the most exciting person on g mail and my emails get out It's a sad reflection on this world if I'm the most interesting person out there Where this gets into government policy I applaud Mr -Tarian. They did a He he brought facebook to the attention of the public in two thousand nine for data breaches or privacy. Breaches I can't remember what this latest one In his report he talks about six hundred over six hundred turned twenty two thousand Canadians whose data may be a whatever happened in this instance May May have had their privacy violated. I think that's great. I think people should be more worried especially younger. People about their what they're doing online and the privacy Impacts on that later in life But these companies have have run unchecked for ten or fifteen years they all have multibillion dollar valuations now as a conservative I I hear all the time about the conservatives being in the pocket of big oil where that's true or not I i. I've not realized any benefit from that. Personally But somebody's but he's GonNa be in the pocket of big data and trying to you. Know Mark Zuckerberg I think. That's his name. Mark Zuckerberg went before US Congress and kind of thumbed his nose at us. Congress because facebook has billions of dollars to lobby the government with and I applaud a you know without respect to Mr Mr Mr Taryn in his office. A small fish like the Canadian privacy. Commissioner office trying to bring down a company that's worth billions and billions and billions and billions of dollars Who can spend you know who can hire a thousand people to help? Fight this where Mr Terence office has. I don't know two hundred people and they've got eight files working under ten thousand thousand twenty files So after that scattered little ramble. I think this is good. I think more needs to be shed on how large data companies are managing your personal information. But I can't see the data companies ever losing okay. Cam is now before the courts. So it's going to be there it's now going to be held up to law You and I are very engaged on social media. So I'm pretty sure they got a lot of data on on both of us just like what do you make of Tyrians move You know I'm glad to see him do it. And I honestly this is a discussion. I agree with the Jefferson Neil of this discussion. I should've happened ten fifteen years ago. And we've seen the cycle throughout history in our society and our our our economy where new technologies of risen in an government has been slow to react and there's this period of time where they relatively unregulated. And there's this jostle to get them regulated and then life goes on and Ice and this is not just An issue with a facebook we saw last week when the Yale report came out broadcasting and Net flicks very clearly clearly entertained. Well you can regulate it's not a broadcaster. I'm sorry netflix broadcaster if Netflix Netflix is not a broadcaster. I'm just an eloquent Moose and nice ace jeans okay like they broadcast shows. That's what they do maybe online but they do it right and I think governments have been loathed. Take this step to actually the regular late online business whether it be whether it'd be because it's difficult to do because let's face it is when it comes to international jurisdictions and whatnot interesting that they've been nailed on PIPPA because that's one of the first real opportunities that governs have taken to try to do this and obviously knows at it and at some point that just cannot be allowed understand because at what point do we reach where these companies are company like lake at lake Facebook like apple like alphabet become too too big to be able to govern while and that just brakes on our society that brings out our democracy. I'm just a believer. This is not some classes argument on my part. It's it's more the idea of everyone at some level has to be answerable to the law because if we don't we don't have that. Then what do we have. And and and and. I think that's where I'm glad. Let's see Mister Tehran taking this step. Because let's face it we can. We can other threats all day long we can shake fingers out them all we like but if we never actually follow follow through on any of the threats they're just hollow and they're going to keep pushing so to my mind. I think it's only fair that we've seen that for and I can. I was going to mention that Piecing Atlantic I cannot Ri recommended enough. It's a long read but it's worth at any see what's being done in this in this void that's been created in our law and the malicious malicious intent behind regardless side of the of the political spectrum. You're on just the method and the intent are awful and to me. The sad thing is seeing the one thing I took away from the peace. It seen the methods that have been used by the Russians and used by the Chinese and us by authoritarian regimes being adopted by political critical operatives in this country. You guys exactly. We'll take that will live and we'll make it better right and it's like he wanted to add so I I can't conveniently agree with Cam more on if we don't have the law. What do we have a slightly more optimistic tone? The kneel on the court elements I think the I think the court is probably one of the better places to settle. Settled these policy issues. Because I think judges can can arbitrate this issue in a very nuanced way and they also carry the weight of saying Thou Shalt do what I tell you to do on the other end of it and I just wanted the opportunity just one more thing. I thank you for your patience because I I wanted to say something in on this because I say this in private conversation all the time I'm struck by in this revolution. We've had in the last couple of decades Of our information just being freely available. You know literally your phone tracking every movement you make every store you walk into you know every phone call you make who you make. It reads every team mail. You have all of this combines into your personal profile and I am looking for I really need to get off so I need to get the summer vacation or something so but and I'm not others generation so maybe I have a a a vastly inland. Pardon especially but in older eras think of the fights that that we as civilization governments and courts especially hat around personal privacy when it came to state surveillance so the the the the limitations on police and in a state where they can and can't do like to get a phone tap to be able to read. Your mail was a process and involved hundred people's and millions of dollars and then we just gave it away and people people used to defend those rights quite literally to the death I think in the case of people going to war to fight for those kinds of values people certainly didn't want their state. Knowing what the which store they were going to on a daily basis or whether they had a mistress or not right one or listening to your conversations at home and they somehow Alexa I am from our podcast. Microphones we all. We have about six microphones stable so all this is a as as a society we all of a sudden became extremely passive acid on protecting our own rights. And I think it's because we got a trade off in the service. Yeah but I I just find the whiplash of those that sort of era shift. It's just a little bit mind boggling When you think maybe it's because I don't know it's because we trust corporations more than we trust the state I think that's backward but that's because I'm a liberal but anyway no no I? I just wanted to bring that point to the table because I bring it to the private conversations from time to time all right speaking about the courts here. We go in Quebec another half an hour. Well let's make it short and sweet but Quebec is slamming the federal government for heard their funding over the bill. twenty-one Cam Federal Government has kinda gone in a diff- has gone into this in a different way to challenge which it and what do you make of Quebec's response and Ottawa's well the thing is I'll I I'll say the federal government hasn't done anything here. The Federal Government has a court challenges program the the minority groups can use and as a person as a minority in this country. You know I have a lot of my rights. Thanks to that program and I will defend it to the death and unfortunately the prior Harper did remove. It was one of those people definitely raising more than a few loud voices about it to me. This whole episode is brought brought to things to Miami one was a reminder of what life was like with the block in parliament because you get the block in parliament I remember during the campaign. The odd sight of seeing the Bloc Quebecois leader coming across the Ottawa River to go into eastern Ontario and talk about how they're going to defend the rights of Francophones outside of outside of Quebec. And how they're the defenders of the French French language yet now that very same program that francophones across the country outside Quebec used to protect their language. The blocker saying no. ooh You should not be allowed to use. That is awful. It is terrible stripping away because how Lo and behold the anglophone minority in their in their province decides is to use it. It's hypocrisy it's rank hypocrisy and it is the stock in trade of the Bloc Quebecois and. I'm in this week. Has Been a reminder it kind of forgot about what life was like with the block and there are some things where things almost agree with them on on policy and whatnot. But then they're situations like this that bring this right to the surface that somehow that they're law into the argument that they use is repugnant. Is anything else is that well. It was passed unanimously in the National Assembly majority of Quebeckers polled supported. You know what that may very well be the case but that's been our case throughout our history. The country there. There was a time in this country. Nicest person when it went a majority people. The House of Commons supported and the majority of the public supported the hanging Louis Rail. They thought that it was a grand idea. They thought the idea of taking me off the land. The residential schools was a popular policy that passed democratically in the house and was supported by the majority and now today we know it was genocide. I'm sorry the as much as I support democracy and a popular vote. The people are not always right when it comes to protect the minority rights and minority groups need to have the the levers to defend themselves and the idea that Mr Blanchette and and miss you go stand there and say look. We're on a press minority in North America and we need to be protected which there's truth to but then turn around and say that that means we get to. That means we get to get to take the boots to you and your rights. I'm sorry I can't stand for that and I'm glad I'm glad to see that worked up over this. I'm glad to see they're upset. Because because it's showing us why it is back in twenty eleven. We reduce them to four seats. And we're putting towards history's dustbin where they belong. Okay if anyone can ham right now resolute. Absolutely nothing Neil big mistake by Quebec. Listen I'll get two quick hits out of the way and then I'll go into my the point I want to make It's amazing because this is I think is the first time a Quebec premier has ever called for cutting spending by the federal government shots fire. Also I'd like compare and contrast the Quebec government's desire to have the federal government out of the the the bill c twenty one jurisdiction. They have in their your own problems but yet desires the federal government to get involved in another provinces issues Most recently the the approval for the Tech Frontier Mine in in Alberta so compare and contrast those disparate positions but specifically to the court challenges. I'm just program I it is an interesting little wedge. That Mister Trudeau finds himself in today. He needs votes in Quebec. So do they de-fund the court challenges program or do they Give the the premier of Quebec a reason to bash the federal liberals. I see this perhaps going down the same vein as the Danny William's desire fire to have conservatives never take federal power ever again Mister Llegado can beat this. If if the if the court challenges program continues is which is a liberal program If Justin Trudeau can't back away from supporting the Court Challenges Program for all the reasons nations cameron into but if he does but if he doesn't then then premium ago who was a p Q minister separate as Mr for ten years who sees Quebec as a distinct society which great. But but this will i. If if the the Court Challenges Program continues to fund this this I think it's a school board if I'm not if a Macho Macho the school board if the Court Challenges Program continues to fund the School Board. Mr Logo will go on an anybody but Justin Trudeau Tirade for the rest of the life of this government and as a conservative. I'm very happy to sit back and watch that unfold. All right I chat will. Maybe it won't be surprising to say that I disagree a little bit. I think this is a flash in the PAN I think this is another little silliness eruption around this very serious issue. United Cam kind of put the nail in the head. On on some of the silliness that brought to Parliament Hill via the surrogates. It's but I don't see this being thus sustaining issue. The fact is the court case dating issue and one of the court case is funded by this program or not. I don't think dictates whether it goes forward. I honestly don't think Justin Trudeau or anything. One of his members of cabinet ministers would endorse. The notion of getting rid of this program is something that means a great deal to them the liberal movements the history of the charter et Cetera. So I don't see that happening. I think important just to point out for listeners. Who May who may just want some clarification? The program is administered are the University of Ottawa and independent unit. So it's not Justin Trudeau saying but case in this case and I don't like that case so let's not do that one. That's not how it works. That's what our justice system tends to work so in this case. That's the thing but I wanNA make one political point and it's an interesting one and maybe it's a little bit self serving as the liberal voice on the table but I'll use it anyway So I probably can because I feel exactly the same way I have no doubt the liberal people talk about feel that same very same passionate about this and to Neil's point they are caught in a difficult political situation and they are also having to be the government where they are not. They're not just barking. They have to actually walk there. Talk so I'm curious whether this actually may end up being an example of Of the quiet path succeeding. So there's to paths if you look at this bill twenty one issue all the way back through the election. Stand up. Beat your chest call them. Call Them Jerks You know and and and stamp your feet and maybe come up with so you know maybe lead the charge of the court case. I think that was the most extreme example people were calling for lead the charge case. Well the case happening the court will hear it. I have a lot of confidence. The court will say this is unconstitutional. I have every confidence every court after that will say this is unconstitutional. And eventually people like premier. Go walk the walk away with the tail between his legs on this issue but let the court do that. And so is this quiet support and not caving on this particular issue. So I think what's happening here is. They're trying to catch a little underbelly so if they're allowing this in this case proceed they're providing the allowing the space for that necessarily support to flow to it. They have notionally said. We want to see this proceed which is inherently supporting this process. And if you assume that it will end up the way it will probably that's a pretty good way to get to where you WANNA go without than the political show being the prime vehicle So I think both of those vehicles are are have merit especially if you're using the the loud vehicle as a patriotism. The next is for unfortunately though unfortunately not for everybody in Canada as we know from the polls. This policy is popular among some people. I wouldn't be surprised if you ask people across Canada. Ah The percentage of people across Canada would say this might be a good idea in their province but so rather than stoking that division are driving that wedge deeper and driving that the piece of wood further into our national grain. Why don't we just let the courts to you a little bit like what we just talked to one side of that the one thing? That's interesting about this. I agree with Ah. I like to approach the prime minister's take on this because it has been quite approach is been antagonist and we have seen `specially with law. twenty-one we've seen this throughout the process of it's ah been introduced past everything that that the Quebec political class has been very keen on criticizing going after anyone who dares suggest. There's something wrong with what they do. And I remember when Manitoba Premier Powell's step forward in Iran and ad campaign trying to recruit Franklin people to come work Manto because they I need Francophone civil servants and how Lago went after him and started attacking them. For how dare you hypocrites. How exactly and to Mediatek? Well wait a second. You've made a decision used binders and people have the right to move around. So the idea that again anything that even hints at a criticism says of their approach automatically tap political blowback. Because that's the same thing. That's the approach that this government in Quebec decide to take and it's not one that that could be sustainable over time. It's definitely not but I think that's an interesting. I mean that's where I appreciate the Prime Minister's done you could very easily turn this into a back and forth screaming match. That could be easily done but isn't going to who actually improve the issue. And yes I I have faith in the courts in this but again the fact you actually have to go there and I think that's just kind of part of the part of the price. It's part of the price of admission of being a minority in this country. And you know what it is what it is. But but that's why we have courts there to defend those rights but see twenty th doesn't build twenty-one have they they have used it yeah but but again. This is what that means going before the courts. All the case has taken a charter. That doesn't have the knowledge to apply but it's novel argument that they're trying to I. I and I'm not smart. I'm not informed about your smart informed enough. have to argue one way or the constitutional law class at Teachers College. So let's It's an interesting I. I don't know if that'll mean. The court cases longer shorter than usual. I I let's just go back to politics. Pure and simple. I think this is one of the few. Active examples of a little bit of trump is coming into Canada. It's the Well we don't need the sort of legal structure. Sure we have the popular back and then leave aside the content of the the intent I think it's a little experiment in that and I think we'll see how that plays out but I think there's not a auto tight for that in Canada. Well let's it's it's before the courts We have the facebook challenge from private before the courts and A interesting candidate China relations meeting ahead of US Committee we might have a legislative through a self supporting legislation. Let's just give it all the courts to decide. That's very liberal longer podcasts. That we normally do. I hope our listeners enjoyed it. That was a great discussion guys. Jeff Cam Neil pleasure as always have a great great weekend and thank you to the listeners for tuning into blue skies strategy groups team of political observers for this week's a Canadian. podcast what you need to know about politics. This Week in Canada Strategy Group is one of Canada's leading public affairs firms for government relations lobbying and strategic communications advice across Canada. visit us at blue sky. Strategy Group DOTCOM Blue Sky Strategy. Group is a proud member of the global. Oh Communications Alliance
June 18: Sorry not sorry
"I told the court. To? Use One small man. Giant wheel. I do wish say official that I'm wrong person right now. Uncover season seven. Dead Wrong. Killed Tipple it the. Be. Available on CBC. Listen and wherever you get your podcasts. This is a CBC podcast. Hello! I'm Carol off and I'm Chris Ouden this is as it happens the podcast edition. Tonight. Sorry, not sorry and EP leader Jagmeet Singh tells us. He has no plans to apologize for calling the Bloc Quebecois MP racist and the House of Commons yesterday and he thinks it's time to rethink. What constitutes unparliamentary behaviour homes. Dane Joshua Contractors has been living in the united. States with the fear of deportation for years with a new Supreme Court ruling today is a new day for him and hundreds of thousands of undocumented immigrants, connecting the dots Canada is rolling out a national covid nineteen contact. Contact tracing up and privacy concerns abound. Blackberry is helping with their project. It's chief technical officer says Canadians should trust the process divided loyalties John, Bolton's book about Donald Trump is the talk of Washington, but Democrats have some choice words of their own for the former national security advisor, saying he chose book royalties over loyalty to his country and and despair, and some really wild quacking. We reach the scientists who things he has decoded the meaning behind the distinct toots and quacks made by Queen. And imprisoned heirs to the throne, we get to hear them to and the best laid plans. One invented a flying lawnmower. The other runs a lawnmower museum, but despite their enthusiasm for landscaping neither of tonight's guests from the archives is great at keeping a long story short as it happens the Thursday edition radio that keeps you coming back for more. Jug meets. Sing is not apologizing. The MVP leader was thrown out of the House of Commons yesterday for Calling Bloc Quebecois MP and Ontarians resist. He said after Mr Terry voted against an EP motion dealing with systemic racism in the RCMP. Today Bloc Quebecois, leader, Francois Blanchet called on Mr Sing to make amends. I hope. That the leader of the MD.. Will Apologize. sincerely. And if not I owed the president. Also, comments. Will be quite severe. Because if dion leap and alty is not being allowed into the room for one day or not being allowed to speak for one day. Everybody will feel entitled. To do the same and trade insults accusation on the floor, which is not a good idea. So I hope that this will be fixed. rapidly. And I Ask You. please. Explain to. The Canadian people. Watch, really happened. His anything with a racist person. That's Bloc Quebecois leader. Francois Blanchette reacting to an exchange between block. MP Atlanta an end. EP, leader Jagmeet Singh in the House of Commons yesterday. We reached Jug meeting today in Ottawa. Interesting, I'm going to begin with asking you. What did happen yesterday I mean? We heard you lay out the motion. The was to be a vote. You need a wanted to needed a unanimous votes. We heard the as in the know. What happened to provoke your reaction? We're we're in a moment where people have taken to the streets in the thousands across Canada in community, small and large, saying you know what black lives do matter indigenous lives, matter, and that moment has been really special. It's been painful. People have talked about the pain and. Agony that they've gone through their own experiences. And then the same time we've seen the RCMP at the heart of some horrible examples of police brutality, we all saw the images and the video of chief how an atom and the lives have been lost and have been killed by police in response to wellness checks or healthcare checks or mental health checks in light of all this. This and the inaction of Prime Minister Trudeau and the inaction of the Liberal government, we put Ford emotion to push for some real change, so we laid out one. Let's acknowledge there are systemic racism and the RCMP completely federal jurisdiction fully within the powers of the House of Commons to legislate. Let's acknowledge that in two. Let's do something about it, so use of force review. Emphasizing deescalation and then really responding to healthcare crises with healthcare workers in that moment. When motionless presented I was confident top. The speaker called for the consent and I heard a lot of days, and I was not surprised. I expected this with tough, and then there's one no, and the the speaker didn't hear it because it was so overwhelmingly. Yes, and was about to move forward, and that no repeat and I look back my saw one person in the entire House of Commons saying no. And and then I look back, and they kind of just made this gesture of dismissal, and that gesture of dismissal really is what I wanNA talk about eight. Is this notion that it doesn't matter? Can we need you to describe this gesture because this is? This has become key to this discussion. What was the gesture and describe what you think it means? saw I look back on that sign. MP wave their hand in a dismissive motion I while saying no, no of course not almost like. Of course, not, why would we support emotion like that and I thought how offensive to all the people, all the indigenous people, the black people, the race slides people that are fighting for change to just wave of a hand, dismiss and say no to something so vital in meaningful. And so, what did you say to Allenton? I called him a racist. You're racist for voting against US I I put my hands up saying how do you do that? And he said Yeah I did it and said how could you do that? I did it and I said. Racist for voting against us. Any challenge me to go outside. And then he and he raises voice and I said Yeah I'm calling you racist. This is wrong. This is wrong. I can't believe you voted against. This is wrong. Mr Bunch, says that by extension of coup accusing Antillean of being a racist that you are calling Bloc Quebecois. Racist Party that they were always this. He says that that they're not that Quebecer. They come from a nation of Quebec which is welcoming and open that they appreciate diversity Do you think the blockade qual- is a racist party? This is a really important question, and I don't WanNa take a moment. I have never named this. This experience I have not named a party I called a person but I will name a party. The systemic racism that we're up against was created by those in power. As far as I know the only two parties that have been empowering Canada have been either conservative or liberal, so let me name the parties that are responsible for systemic racism in Canada Liberal and Conservative, full stop. Do you think that? At least the Liberals that Prime Minister Trudeau has acknowledged systemic racism. He! Absolutely has and I and I want to know is A. Very positive step, but I just want to highlight that it enough to just say the right thing and the prime minister has. It's Nice Nice things, and in fact set some really kind words about what happened yesterday, and acknowledged that I appreciate that what people are demanding action, and while I know the prime minister said very positive things it is just not enough. We need to see the systemic change in fact and this. Say because I've been very critical of president trump, but in this moment president trump has actually moved more quickly to put in place changes to policing then Prime Minister Trudeau. Has That is? That is wrong because that's the reality. Whether any other. Parties are members who who voted no yesterday and that motion. You. I can't say with a hundred percent accuracy but I only heard one percent in the entire. House of Commons, it said no I did not hear no from either the Liberals or conservatives in fairness I wonder we just finally where you will take this from here because we just remembering different times when you have confronted racism in public and going back to when you were campaigning for the leadership that extraordinary moment, when that woman racist woman came up, and was talking to you, and you reached out to who said she's loved. She wanted to include her. You want to bring her into an understanding. Do, you think that you have changed your approach in that regard. No I think that is the only way for it and I. Don't think that the naming. Is Good enough we have to actually change the policies and the laws and so. While I. Don't take back calling out systemic racism. It can't just be calling. It has to be more than just calling. It has to be the systemic change and I want to really use my. that. We have to bring people along. It's gotTA. Be Through love, and and having the courage to to do what's necessary to make the changes and I still believe that Mr Blanchette said he thinks. Maybe you just had a bad moment that you lost it and he thinks that there's a way to move forward to patch this up to get past it. He doesn't want this to go on and on. What do you want to happen now? I agree that this is should never be about you know to. Peace should be about. HOW CAN WE FIGHT SYSTEMIC RACISM? And how can we bring in new policies and new laws to change it, so I feel like if anything can come out of this? It should be. Let's commit to making some changes some real changes. Let's say people's lives. Are you going to apologize? It's no longer about me if it was about just me I. I'm quick to apologize I. Believe in the principle of not having not letting egos get in the way, but it's gone beyond me, and people have looked at this as a moment where someone has finally stood up for them. People send me so many messages saying you know we face this in our lives. We face this for someone to just not back down makes us feel like matter. Racism sends a message that people don't matter, and in that could meet. People feel like they mattered and I don't WanNa. Take that away from people, so it's become important for you not to say you're sorry about this. Young would be. It would be a Kintu thing. I'm sorry for fighting stomach races now and I can't say that I'm sorry for fighting I. Don't apologize for wanting to. To Fourth Liberal government to do something I don't apologize for being upset that the House of Commons couldn't just acknowledge. You together united couldn't acknowledge that there is the RCMP which is so. I can't apologize for that. I'd be letting down to many people. Misusing thank you. Thank you very much. Chug meet sing as the leader of the federal and EP. We reached him in Ottawa this afternoon. We requested an interview Bloc Quebecois. Tehran and did not hear back by airtime. Hum. By this point, it's widely accepted that contact tracing is an integral part of any successful response to covid nineteen, but what exactly that looks like depends a lot on where you are and who you ask. When prime. Minister Justin Trudeau was asked today, he revealed a new tool that will be part of Canada's approach. Led by the Canadian digital service, and with the help of Sherifi blackberry and the government of Ontario, we've been working on a nationwide mobile APP. That will notify users if they've been exposed to covid nineteen. We will soon begin testing this APP in Ontario. They're already a number of other provinces including BC who are working with us on this, but it will be available to everyone in the coming weeks. Now I want to stress this APP will be completely voluntary. It'll be up to individual Canadians to decide whether to download the APP or not, but the APP will be most effective when as many people as possible have it? Prime Minister Justin Trudeau. Sharing details of a new government endorsed contact tracing up. That will be rolling out across Canada in the weeks ahead. Charles Egan is the chief technology officer for blackberry which is involved in the development of the APP. We reached him in Ottawa. Charles I know a lot of people WANNA know. How does this work if they're actually going to assign on what what to give us the basics? Yes, so this contact tracing solution that the prime minister has just announced is basically when when two phones become close to one another as determined by the Bluetooth Signal That event is noted so that. in the future, if one of the people that have come in close contact. Test positive for covid nineteen. It's much easier to determine who they've been close to. They don't have to rely on their memory We can use the technology to help you know determine who might have been close to that unfortunate person that has just tested positive, so the phones note the fact that you've come close contact so later on, if someone test positive, the Apple, notify you that you've come in contact with someone who tested positive. And how do we know? How does they know that that person is tested positive? So an innovative part of the solution is when when someone has a test and they test positive. They're giving a code by a healthcare professional. the person that has been tested voluntarily puts that code into the APP, and then the APP very securely, and privately notifies all the other phones that it's come in contact with that. They've been close to someone who has tested positive with covert nineteen. So if I get a signal that tells me I have been in close contact with someone with covid nineteen. Does that mean is like? How much contact is that? Someone who was on on a bus with me? Someone walked by on the street. Someone working list. How how much contact you have to have before that's going to happen. Yes so the flexibility is you know? How long have you been near someone? Let's say it's ten minutes. Or how close have you been? And and so so you can trigger it to be more sensitive less sensitive, so the idea is. If you walk past someone on the street that would not register, but if you sit beside someone on the bus for ten minutes, and you're less than you know six feet apart, that probably would register so so there is a there's a configuration that allows us to. Give it the sensitivity that we want to. To determine that there's an increased risk and that sort of the healthcare tune -able per setting that we can do with the solution. Would I have any idea as to who it was that with whom I got into contact with lead, Cova. No not at all. So you know privacy has been designed into the solution. It's completely anonymous. You don't have any idea when or where that contact happened so that this privacy is protected. Okay, so this'll be a voluntary a program right? Yeah, it's completely opt in, and you can opt out at any time. The more people that opt in the the more chance of providing this additional information to help help fight the pandemic. And how convinced I e that it would be entirely voluntary I mean what are the possibilities that employers might want there and might even make it necessary as a condition of going back to work that they download this APP. I, you know. Carolina not heard that that that scenario I think as the prime minister line. This is completely voluntary. It's it's not a employer led activity A. Citizen led activity and and and I expect that that's the way it will be rolled out, but if it becomes something is is crucial to knowing whether it's safe in a work environment safe to go back to work I mean if a lot of things depend on this. kind of technology, don't they? And so, what kinds of pressure might have been on? People actually be part of this program. Yes, so so so I i. You know in terms of the the employer. incentive for employees to use this APP. It's not something that I've really thought about so I'm not sure what the comment on that one I do believe that there's other techniques that employers could use to provide the safety. You know just by information, and you know distancing of employees in the workplace so that they're not coming in contact. We've also seen those safer facemasks where it was completely voluntary, but but encouraged to wear face mask, and now increasingly it's going to be the condition of getting on a bus or subway or being places that you're wearing a face mask. Do you think that this might evolve? you know I hope that a lot of people opt in given the it. It sort of at least amount of information. You collect enough to be useful, but but there's not any personal information that's being shared here. You know I expect. There's more privacy being shared with people's flashlight APP and Kovic nineteen up, and there's a you know a social good. That comes along with the Covid Nineteen Solution it's people share on personal information on facebook and everything else. Roller carpet to the red carpet brother in in other ways sometimes now. How does it become national as the prime minister was saying that it was going to be a nation wide program? Alberta has already launched its own APP So, how does that complicate things as far as having a having national adoption of this APP? Yeah so the the healthcare back in is the tuning that's required for for each province, but the solution that the CDs has announced with will work on a like that one single apple work for all Canadians, and it's being. It's being first introduced in Ontario, but as the healthcare cans are added I, it will be effective for for the entire province. So so you know how it ties into Berta. I'm not completely sure I think we're you know we're in early days of the deployment, and that's really in the hands of the CDs. Canadian digital services is that serious justice? And finally, when might this rule out? You know prime. Minister Trudeau mentioned in the next several weeks for very soon. All Right? They're interesting Charles thank you. My pleasure, thank you very much. Charles Egan is the chief technology officer for blackberry, which is consulting on the rollout of covid nineteen context tracing up endorsed by Canada's federal government. We reached him today in Ottawa. Human Queens have their own way of communicating orders. They can just articulate what they want with words by saying for example off with his head, or please help me shampoo the Corgis, but Queen Bees issue their orders non verbally in a way that to human ears doesn't sound very regal. Hurt At. act. That is the sound of Queen honeybees in a hive. They are tuning in quacking. We knew they did that, but now scientists at Nottingham Trent University decoded why they do it. Their study is published this week in the Journal scientific reports. Martin benchick was the lead scientist on the study and we've reached him in Nottingham England. Madness, first of all, what would the previous theories as to why honeybees made these different sounds, so we're talking queen honeybees and the striking feature. Is that these sounds or responding to each other? They'll do it and so beekeeper scientist race, the theory that perhaps it's queens sizing each other up. So the idea that these queens and potential queens are speaking to each other, and with these tooth's in quacks with within the colony. That's right so They are competitors and visual evidence that they will fight each other. If they resigned colony together and in biological world, people and animals tried to avoid unnecessary fight. If you see your opponent is wealthier to you, there is no point in stopping the fight. So one idea is that these signals where queen sizing each other up to avoid the hub and unnecessary physical fights. And what have you discovered? What do you think is the reason why they make these toots and quacks, so an alternative explanation, the to and quacks or signals sent to the colony. And we have strong evidence. Supporting that idea, we think these signals are information released to the Queen to thing would say something like if she was speaking English she would say keep the quacking queens captive. This is what she's saying to have. And the quacking Queens. They'll attending the colony release us, release. Something like an English. That's quite translation so. Okay, so it's not just that they're. You figured out what they're probably saying, but it's who they're saying. They're not talking to each other. They're talking to the other. The worker bees I like that I like that I like what you're highlighting, indeed I think. The breakthrough is to suggest that the signals are actually social communication signals to the society, not between two individuals, but they'll signals regulating the social behavior and I think that he's what's surprising, and I think it makes much more sense than other explanations and again we have substantial evidence to support that you. Can listen to them again if we can hear the sounds of toots and clocks. Off! So maisy so now that we're hearing it in this context. What tells a bit more about what you think that conversation is? The first one you heard was the tooting, and this is definitely a a free roaming queen. And I think she's saying Keep the Queen's skeptics. So. The other Queens quaking that was the second signal. You Quack, quack, quack, and these queens already to emerge. They'll ready to come out. I, think that perhaps they'll saying release us. Let me go out from the cell. And as long as the -tuting resides in the colony, we have seen that the quaking keeps going on so indeed the work of keeping the other queens captive, and as soon as the tooting disappears then one cracking queen is released, and she starts shooting. Where does the tooting Queen Go? she forums away, so she leaves the books. We have the worker bees, and she tries to establish a new colony somewhere else is usually in a cavity. You are lucky in Canada to have substantial woodland, so is usually in a hollow tree that she would try and start a new, so it's the splitting of the colony into several colonies. It's the reproduction phenomenon, and then what becomes of the quacking Queens so we. We then measure after the swamp off. The team has gone. We collect a new two teams three to four hours later, so the work at these must have released one quacking queen, Jude to the absence of the tooting that was in the colony. Do any of the quacking cleans? Never get released? They just once. You're saying release me. Release me from this this wax prison. Do they ever get sort of like left there? that or multiple the quacking Queens? That's all the more or less simultaneously that you heard on the recording. Cooking is usually simultaneous. You will have several individuals cracking, and it's a problem to release them, and the mechanism is not perfect, and we'll have occasionally two to three queens release. They're very strong. Animals strong that the wikileaks so sometimes the more than one queen will be released in the colony I've seen myself. But no, they They all come out. Eventually I have never seen. quacking Queen, remaining Steve and locked forever dying something like this I have never seen it in my life. They will eventually come out the problem is. To avoid too many of them to come out together similtaneously. Were they have worker, bees and drones etcetera to take someplace else or they just sort of be at the at the end of the one hundred left behind the he's sometimes the case, but worker bees or two inches yesterday they make too many Virgin Queens, and indeed they run out of staff and the smallest last forms to exit the colony or This is fascinating, but why is this important? I mean th. There are beekeepers who need this information right? The idea is that we think the to and quacking is fulfilling very sophisticated, important mechanism in Dakota knee, and what we're saying the to the beekeepers is to be careful, because when this period of time takes place in the year. It's usually April to me. we suggest that to be very careful to disrupt this mechanism, which is warranty in the old lead release of one queen at a time in inside the colony, and this is absolutely fascinating, I really appreciate you explaining this to us, thank you. Thank you my pleasure! Thank you so much. Bye, bye, Martin benchick was the lead scientist and the study of Queen Honeybees, and why they toot and quack. We reached him in Nottingham England. I told the court that I'm friendly. From you. To. Use small man and giant wheel caught, but I do wish to say official that I'm wrongfully right now. Uncover season seven. Dead Wrong? It killed pit bull if they maybe not. Available on CBC. Listen and wherever. You get your podcasts. The! He smashed pretty much. Every billboard and streaming record that matters it has already been streamed more than a billion billion people still to this day. Point to this is the moment everything changed, but whether you agree with those claims or not, this podcast isn't really about him either. You're not an astute businessman, or you're inherently racist. When it comes to black music in this country, this is not a drake podcast available now on CBC listen or wherever you get your podcast. Dreamers were able to breathe a sigh of relief today this morning. The United States Supreme Court blocked the trump administration's attempts to end the DACA program. DACA stands for deferred action for childhood arrivals. It's an Obama era policy that protects hundreds of thousands of. Immigrants who were brought to the US as children from being deported in two thousand seventeen, the trump administration announced it was winding down the program and gave Congress six months to figure out new legislation. Josh contrast is a doctor recipient. The twenty-three-year-old came to the US for Mexico. When he was eight. We reached him in Tampa. Cash, what was your reaction when you heard the decision at the Supreme Court? Whoa my reaction honestly Carol. I broke down. I broke down crying immediately after I heard the decision. I read that decision It's been a very stressful few weeks. we all knew the decision was going to be made in June so it's been every single week kind of thing we've been I've been checking other nonprofit oryx that I've been touched as well have been checking pretty much week by week when the next. Days will be scheduled on usually on Mondays and Thursdays. So. We knew this one was coming up I thought it was going to actually be extended until July so today was actually very surprising for me, and so, what does that mean for you I mean this. Is it for you? Personally? What what effect does it have on you that? The deferred action for childhood arrivals is not going to be canceled. It means a lot. It means a lot because not only does this week with childhood arrivals being still the rule. They are for us, but for me. It means hope I'm very inspired by all the activism that was done for not just myself for many many. People as well and just activism that has been done for over ten years, before the decision of the fruit action for childhood arrivals Obama as an twelve especially in the United States currently in the environment that we're living of racial injustice, not only for the immigrant community, but also for our LGBT community. The Trans Community are black community it proves a point that activism dust, work and effective all the way that can make it happen to the supreme. Court and not only did they ruled today in my favor by on. Monday they also ruled in my favorite because I am gay, so this week has just been amazing for me, but. Today, we celebrate tomorrow we continue the fight. Only a small celebration for me okay. Wasn't the celebration Donald Trump who said that these two decisions you've just described by both affect your life in the supreme. Court, he described it as the supreme. Supreme Court doesn't like me, and this has been shotgun blast to the face. What. What what what? What do you say to to Donald Trump about what he wants to do? Just talk about the this, Daca. Project now. What what? What do you want to tell him as to why? He should not dismantle it. I think today's decision proves a it's. It states very strong point from the court, saying that nobody is above the law including the president of the United States and that includes Donald Trump in itself and I think that it presents a very strong points of the president's for months away from the election. And like I said today, we celebrate, but. In November, we will say goodbye to trump because what's next for me, it's this is not over. You know I'm GonNa. Continue my activism, and just because I I I can't vote. I can still encourage people to vote. And were for months away from the election. That's not a very That's a very short period of time so we're hoping for November to have a good as well not only for myself, but for the nation. You're twenty three years old now. You came to the United States from Mexico and you're eight years old. Is that right? got. His correct and if DACA was this if it was canceled if you didn't have that that deferred action for childhood arrivals. What would happen to you? I would have lost my opportunity to continue my education. I actually stopped going to college last year because I personally didn't want to continue and. Spent so much money on something that could have been revoked. Saw I decided to not go to school and I decided to continue working I've been blessed to be able to work for an amazing company It's transfer wise. I work for Public Affairs Team and they've supported me one hundred percent but if today are, the outcome would have been different. I would have lost the opportunity to continue my employment with transfer wise. Old They've supported me. One hundred percent, said an amicus brief directly to the Supreme Court with other tech companies but I would have lost my employment. I would have had to come up with a a backup planned This is the only country that I've known or all. My life since I was eight years old and this is the only home that I know so if today's ruling would have been differently it would have not only affected my entire life, but it would affected. The economy might company my family. My friends would affected every single person around me and I do have to do with this possible that you would have been sent to Mexico. Absolutely my work. Permit expires next year May. Of next year, And that was the fear, so it wasn't something that was guaranteed so the petition, but it's always that fear of deportation and you know Carol growing up as a kid undocumented. You know. My parents always told me to give this story that was not true by myself to tell my friends tell my teachers that I came to this country legally, and this was the story that I was supposed to give every time and full I just didn't think that was stride lying and also like me growing up as being gay, you know it took a toll on me. So this means a lot to me because it meant means that I can be my true self. Josh! I'll be watching and thank you for speaking with us. Thank you for the interview. Carol appreciate it bye. Bye. Josh Contra is a doctor recipient. We reached him in Tampa Florida today's supreme. Court ruling did leave the door open for the trump administration to make another attempt to rescind the DACA program. When John Bolton declined to testify before the house impeachment inquiry last December, the former national security advisor said he was doing things by the book, but now Democrats are suggesting his real motivation was to get folks to buy his book. In that new book, which is scheduled to vote on Tuesday Mr Bulletin says Congress should have investigated US president, Donald Trump not just for his dealings with the president of Ukraine, but with other leaders as well the book describes Mr Trump as incompetent and says he showed a willingness to intervene in criminal investigations quote to in effect give personal favors to dictators. He liked on quote. Today House Speaker, Nancy Pelosi weighed in on John Bolton and his accusations during an interview with MSNBC's Andrea Mitchell. Here's part of that conversation for the record. Ask You about John Bolton's book, because in his there are new revelations including the president at that summit, the G. Twenty Summit as President Xi of China for help winning him reelection, helping buying soybeans from American farmers to help him win reelection which would seem to be. Akin to what he? Reportedly, with Ukraine also the president, not knowing that the United Kingdom is a nuclear power, saying that flat and re Putin can play them like a fiddle the president praising President Sheaves for concentration camps, holding the Muslim. your reaction to all of this. I said already the president ethically unfit. Intellectually, unprepared, personally unqualified to be president of the United States and I think that what we're seeing in some of the statements of those who have served the president. To see that point confirmed as far as the book is concerned. The. Shame on John Bolton for not coming forth during the impeachment, he wants it con. Con with the far right by saying. Oh, I'm criticizing the Democrats for not of going further in the impeachment, but the fact is, he refused. To to receive a subpoena from the House of Representatives, he said he would only receive from the Senate well, he knew the Senate would never issue one, so he chose royalties in this book and said of patriotism to our country. Democratic House Speaker Nancy Pelosi speaking with MSNBC's Andrea Mitchell today. Part. Lots of people have grass in their yards, but not all those grass covered yards our lawns, because dictionary definitions of lawn include one qualifier for example from Merriam Webster ground as around the house, or in a garden or park that is covered with grass and is kept mode. Now, the LAWNMOWER was invented in eighteen thirty, as we all know by Edwin, beard budding, and because we already know it, I don't need to rehash his inspiring story or his famous quote. I invented the LAWNMOWER, and it goes without saying that Mr Budding made all subsequent lawnmower developments possible including. The achievement, of Kevin, cleary a British butcher who invented a more that was maybe a little, too cutting edge of flying lawnmower. Barbara from spoke with Mr Cleary, Nineteen seventy-six. Hi Mr Clarrie. Hello. We understand. You've got a flying lawnmower there is it for sale? No. Quite enjoy. What do you call him? Can it also cut the grass. That's good. If, it crashes to the ground too many times. Though maybe it'll all come apart on you. Know crashed into a tree one. But fortunately. It well. You didn't trim any branches it. Is this a product. You've been working on for some time. Two years is the full. Nine of. INTRIGUING IDEAS People in high-rise block the window. When you go to this place, there's normally align of the across that a few helicopters and nothing to the kids up. So long same the appropriate thing. What keeps this thing in the air. Has It got wings? You rely on the grass catcher. Has No wings. Just a flat platform Monday. aerodynamically sound a lawnmower. no he's on Iran. Originally. But. It wasn't very clever flying his. So. It's down to the pilot skill. Is this a conversion job or a custom built lawn more? Mock run was a from Russian. And we couldn't find. That toilet, so we had to another one special features. Have you built into? Get an airborne. the engines now on the front. With propeller. and it has either on Purnea crossed on the back. And a little girl. It's the anybody. In order for up and down. Now, how improved latest version what can it do? Loop. WRONG SPIN retail that you to. As far as you can see so, this isn't just an ordinary flying lawnmower. well, it's. A robotic. Airshows. But we try to tell them. We've got lying all they tell us we made. which you are of course. Not Really. What's next? What will mark five? Be Able to do well cry. into has. A road on the back, but whether it will fly with a roller. No idea at the moment. And we go. Think is on another project. Which is even more insane off. which is that what's next? Pig. Animal! Miss Piggy is going to fly. Or. Do you mean a real pig? No. Laws police starring. Take full size. What will it do? We hope it will be clear about it. And the cow jumped over the moon. I'm serious. Well. It's a marvelous achievement Mr Mr. Going to be seen to be believed I'm afraid. Every photographers just rode up with laughter and or legal teach that the governor consoling well. It sounds like you have to be there to really appreciate it. Nice to talk to you, congratulations. From nineteen seventy-six Bubba from talking to Kevin, cleary inventor of the flying lawnmower, which weirdly did not take off. I don't know if Mr Clear is scary. Innovation is among the exhibits at the British Lawnmower Museum in Merseyside, but that Louvre of care does contain dozens of other amazing things, most of which are lawnmowers. The museum is the creation of Brian Random and in Nineteen ninety-one Michael Enron found out more about his collection of splendors in the grass and be warned. You'll hear the story of Edwin Beard Budding for the millionth time. Mr Adam. Why does the world need a Lawnmower Museum of all things? I'm not quite sure if the world's ready for alimony. It's machines that I've collected over the lost. And over twenty years that we're all destined for the scrap yard and I just could not bring myself to throw them away. This nearly a hundred altogether. Hundred. Where do you keep them there all and Oppose the shop where I. which is in in south for near Liverpool. England! All of those the shop. Back, she's A locksmith a garden machinery shops. This passion for Lawn mowers. And when I was brought loan loss, and when last school I went to work for a little more company, and it Sorta stem from that, my father went to in a hardware shop. And we although MOS in three pass, and once they got to sit and age. There's no spare parts available for them and they went straight to this. scrappy out, and some of them were so well built and. Designed and everything that I just couldn't bring myself to do it. What's the oldest you have the oldest one? This moment in time is eight hundred eighty green grains made in Leeds, in England and it's a push from. One of the features on it, besides and not to pay. They didn't have the materials and technology today. Everything was my doubts. Gastein out Capstein gays to drive it. All the CAS- timeframe and he's very heavy. the. The other difference on not source of age machine is the handles quite a lot lower than modern machine because people are not day. Were she also grow? Grow is still. Wet. Who invented the lawn more I don't know anything know. Edwin, voting with the first person to manufactured long put paint until. Edwin Edwin beard budding who lived in Pasta. And England and eighteen think. He took an idea from It was from one of the woolen mills, and they saw he saw this machine that was coaching the nap off the top of woollen cloth as if you wanted to MOA carpet gets little bit so. And then He. He made one it. Also cut the grass, and that's where it stemmed from and in the last. Hundred and fifty years. That style of machine is never changed. It is still the same basic principle. What is your favorites model? My. Favorite one would have to be a little colder as manufactured by JP engineering they would. They started in nineteen, twenty two, and rather than a more company, really a precision engineering. Company, but they they made. Long. it was top quality everything was. A low more was home built from by one professional craftsmen, and from start to finish. and the quality was so good at. and. Later on Rolls. Royce bought the company and they carried on producing almost. And Nineteen nineteen seventy was the last ones that came out in the country, literally the Rolls Royce of lawnmowers. US Yeah I mean. There's lots of good loan on the market, but that was certainly one of them. Thank you for talking to us. Okay? Right all right. Good bye now! Ryan Rodham has just opened the world's first lawnmower museum in Southport, and that's just a few blades of grass north of reading. From, Nineteen ninety-one Allen May Lyndon before him. Like right speaking with Brian Random Creator and curator of the British lawnmower museum. You've been listening to the as it happens podcast. Our show can be heard Monday to Friday on CBC Radio One non Sirius Xm following the world at six. You can also listen to the whole show on the CBC. Listen APP. Download it free from the APP store or from Google play. Thanks for listening I'm off and I'm Chris Hallam. For, more CBC PODCASTS GO TO CBC DOT CA slash podcasts.
November 13: Both sides are buckling down and buckling up
"This is a CBC podcast. Hello I'm Helen Man. Hello I'm Karen Gordon. This is as it happens. The podcast asked addition. Tonight's both sides are buckling down and buckling up public impeachment. Hearings begin in Washington and while the Republicans accuse the Democrats of distortion. Our guests accuses President Trump of extortion. The risk of repeating himself eighteen months ago. Our guest suffered brain damage after being beaten by Turkish security agents since but today Moraleja was back in. DC to protest the Turkish president again total smelt down in northern New Brunswick a smelting operation operation announces. It is closing forever leaving four hundred people out of work including our guest. WHO's worked there for thirty eight years? Curtain call relates. It's playwright John. Morale played a major role in the growth of Canadian theatre and a protege says her mentor. Lived the true and perfect image of life indeed power trips Bolivia's president flees to Mexico and a Bible wielding former opponent. Says she'll rule in his place and our guest says both developments. Make her feel unsafe in our own country and wake up Maggie. I think I got some cool new trains for you. When a BBC suggests Rod Stewart didn't build an elaborate elaborate model railway all by himself over twenty three years Mr Stewart himself goals and to get him back on track as it happens the Wednesday edition Shen Radio that figures? That's the longest relationship he's ever had with any model if you turned on a TV news channel today. There's a good chance you saw a bunch of grumpy looking people glaring at each other in in a conference room in Washington it was the first public hearing in the impeachment inquiry into Donald Trump House. Democrats are investigating whether the US president withheld old military aid from Ukraine for personal political gain side by side in that hearing room today with George Kent a senior State Department official and Bill Taylor. You're the US's top diplomat in Ukraine both had already testified behind closed doors. Here's some of what Mr Taylor revealed earlier today. Last Friday a member of my staff told me of events that occurred on July twenty six while Besser Vulcan Volcker and I visited the Front member of my staff accompanied ambassador. sunlen investor Sunland met with Mr Yearbook following that meeting in the presence of my staff at a restaurant. Besser solid called president trump and told him of his meetings and gave the member of my staff could hear president trump on the phone asking ambassador. Silence about the investigations now. Sahlin Toll President Trump Ukrainians were ready to move forward following the call with President trump. It's a member of my staff asked investors on what president trump thought about Ukraine. That's the song and responded that President Trump cares more about the investigations of Biden which Giuliani was pressing for later in the day. Mr Taylor and Mr. Ken were questioned by Democrats and Republicans on the Intelligence Committee. Here's a question and from Republican. John Ratcliffe in this impeachment hearing today where we impeach presidents for treason or bribery or other high crimes whereas the impeachable offense. It's in that call are either of you here today. To assert there was an impeachable offense in that call shouted up anyone Mr Ratcliffe respond. Let me just reiterate that I'm out here. I don't know I've got thirty. Allow you asked the question. The question let me take you let me answer. This suspend spend the time master Taylor. Would you like to answer the question distractive. I would just like to say that I'm not here to do anything having to do with Come to decide about impeachment. There's not what either of us are here. Do this is this is your job. Karen Bass is a democratic congresswoman from California we reached her in Washington. Congresswoman bast today one. Republican said. He found it hard to stay awake during the hearing. I understand you sat in on part of it. Did you have a similar problem. Oh absolutely not I think that Yeah pretty shameful. Considering how serious today is to me. A statement like that names that they weren't taking it seriously in what's seen is a pretty key moment today today. We heard ambassador Bill Taylor explaining a phone call that one of his staff members overheard between E U embassador Gordon Sunland and president trump. Tell me why that phone call is genus significant. Well my Republican colleagues. Want to say that. There's no first hand information that there I know first. Hand communication with the president so the information that was revealed today was a person overheard ambassador sunlen talking indirectly to the president. Now what's important about that also. Is that some land will be coming to do testimony in the next few days and so he can be asked directly but the fact that you would have a president of the United States who would use military aid for a country that is under attack and a whole that eight back so that he could extort them essentially to speak on behalf south of his campaign because investigating by me and looking for dirt where there is none that is about intervening in the upcoming election and that is beyond inappropriate in the opening statement. We urge the top Republican on the Intelligence Committee. Devon Eunice congratulating Mr Kent Mister Taylor on passing what he called the Democrats Star Chamber auditions. What do you say to that? I work in foreign affairs and deal with diplomats all the time and since this minister administration has been in power. The people that work for the State Department overseas have felt completely disrespected and marginalized in maligned by the president. These men have records that are impeccable. In terms of their service to our country. There were some questions frame today from the Republicans Publican's about remarks that were made by the Ukrainian President Vladimir Dolinsky an which he said there was not any pressure that everything in the coal was above hoard awards to say there was somebody holding a gun. Be Your head. You're not going to sit there and criticize them. That president forty one years old completely inexperienced an experienced politics. What was he supposed to say yes? That's right he forced to me number one that would make him look extremely weak in front of his own people both it would also make him look weak in front of the Russians and then he would anger the president and he needed to get the resources and the money so saying there was no pressure. Sure I think is not even relevant. Of course he would say that we also heard a lot of comments that the whistle blower himself or herself should be required. Hired to testify on Jim Jordan. Saying that you know basically the person who started this all is not going to speak. What do you say to that? And you know. I think that is coming directly from the White House else. That's what the president has been saying over and over. I think it's very disingenuous. Because if that's what you WanNa do that we need to throw out the whole concept of whistleblower protection. It shouldn't even exist that because if you're talking about a whistle blower to come forward the whole point of those laws is to protect people's. Do you think that these public hearings are going to do anything to help you gain support and I don't just mean from the general public like but you you need to get Republicans particularly in the Senate. Is this going to make a difference. I think that their support is contingent on public luke opinion and whether or not they feel that their careers are threatened right now. They are primarily concerned about negative tweets from the president. If the general public public begins to see what is taking what is going on then I think that they might be willing to step up. I believe that what we are seeing right now now is that the president is really a danger right now it would be easy to say. Let's just wait until the election. The problem is we don't know what he's GonNa do over the next twelve months. I'm not sure our country can't afford to wait now on the other hand because we've moved in the public space the president has the opportunity and the Republicans I can have the opportunity to to disprove. What is being said? And so far. They don't seem to have an ability to do that. They're not really challenging. The the witnesses On the facts. They're more challenging on the process and then when they're really in a corner then they reduced their complaints to saying well. Yes maybe he did that. But it's not a big deal. They did hear from the president though the president in like that the president wants to be descended and and so it'll be interesting. I think their testimony there statements and all of that is based on whatever the president tells them at a particular moment after the intelligence committee finishes up. It's going to write a report. It'll be Senate Judiciary Committee of which you are a member and what happens then when we expect your committee you too possibly recommend articles of impeachment. Well I am just guessing that I would say before the year is out but one of the other things that's happening. I want this to go quickly. But what are the other things is happening is more and more people are coming forward and as more and more people come forward then you know we have to decide. Do we keep getting testimony or do we move forward so We you know we will say about my best guess would be for the year so we have as you point out more testimony to here but just this this being the start of it. How do you think history is going to look back at this day? I think history is GonNa look back at this day and say that today was the beginning in which the the American public could hear that our democracy had has some serious weaknesses that we never before realized because we never had a a person that occupied the White House who had absolutely no respect for the rule of law. And I think that it's going to be compared to other impeachment and I think it's going to make the prior at least to impeach and if that happened during my lifetime look very very petty compared to what has gone on with this administration Asian Congresswoman Bass. Thank you for taking time to talk to us. Thanks for having me on that was democratic congresswoman Karen Bass in Washington. She's a member of the House Committee on Foreign Affairs and the House. Judiciary Committee after witnesses wrapped up their testimony today. US President Donald Trump was asked about the hearing. I know that you didn't spend a Lotta time glued to the TV. Today there was one month. Where embassador Bill Taylor recounted a conversation that An aide of his little heard. It was the day after the phone call on July. The twenty sixth in which the aide says that he ever heard you say his son when How are things going with the proceeding with the investigations? Solomon repeat it back to you. According to this aid that Ukraine was prepared to do you. Everything you wanted to do was is that correct. Can you fill in some more. I know nothing about that. First Time I've heard the one thing I've seen that Sandelin said it was that He did speak to me for a brief moment. And I said no quid pro quo under any circumstances and that's true the other right. I've never heard this in any of it. It's more second hand information but I've never heard that was donald trump speaking today during a press conference with the president of Turkey It's the end of the line for Brunswick smelter today. Glencore Canada announced that it was permanently closing the plant located in Bel Dune in northern New Brunswick putting four hundred and twenty people out of Work Union workers who make up more than half of the smelters employees have been off the job Since April in a contract dispute according to the company the plant has been losing money for years and business wasn't expected to turn around anytime soon. Silvani todd has worked at Brunswick smelter for thirty eight years. We reached him at home in Bathurst. New Brunswick Guitar how did you find out that the plant where you've we've worked your whole life pretty much is closing Actually was at Site today and people were saying that they seen something on the on the Internet saying that the cyclist I was frozen fell through or wasn't expecting. It was a bit of a shock beginning to sink in. Now it's starting to thinking now all in a little bit of frustration and little bit of Banda's a bit because you know we've been out on strike since April twenty third and if they nudity reclosing wire air we out you know we could have stayed and work till this time instead of being locked out there. How tough has it been the last seven months you guys have been off the job It hasn't has been easy like you know it's been harder for more than others like Some nine only has a single income coming in while they're having a greater time but No way it hasn't been that Eddie in Glencore Canada which owns the smelter is saying that the decision to close is not related to this labor dispute. There's a business decision. You seem to be suggesting nobody. It may have already thought way back when this this job action began that this might happen just wondering because usually when they decide to close the place. It's stop for the day or two days. It's six months a year down the road. They know that they're going to close so. I'm just wondering when we went into negotiations. If they're holding something back and wanted us. The road said he would be as for six. That's what I'm wondering. Glencore says that the last three years the plant lost on average thirty million dollars a year. Eared does that make sense to you. It's hard to say because we were there to every time they were making silver like it's a lead smelter and silver plant and we see on their sites at all. We're broke another silver record this month so for most of us we thought were were doing all right but they always said that they're losing money so it seems that they were going to. Actually you know improve the plant and updated it they were gonNA spend about sixty four million dollars on an acid plant and then the first phase I it was already done. That was like twenty million dollars spent. Yeah Yeah and they said the next sparked was going to be an August. But then we're we're out on a On wrote right so they said that they were GonNa put that on hold or cancelled it and so we were all right but there was a shock. Is there anything in the industry that you know of that. Add has changed significantly over the course of the last six or seven months to to sort of push that decision. No actually no because it seemed like People were going in and we were hearing that they're getting paid extra money to cross the picket line and all this and some retirees were being called and asked him to come. Vincent received spending. Lots of money. Didn't seem like it was an issue so it was quite a shock. When we found notable do you think that there is any way the smelter could have been saved I don't know actually no. It seemed we know that they was in bad. Need of some repairs and we needed some upgrades and like the plan was one. We knew if that wasn't done that it was going to go down but Lee taught that since they started the fees to receive liquor. Put money in we talked. We're going to be okay but but but I guess not. What is this closure mean for you and your family? Well it's been working there for eight years so now. I know a motive the job so I have to go out and looked looked so might be a little harder. Because I'm in my fifties in you know now they're going to be slipping for more younger people. So that's GonNa be an issue. How close to retiring a year and a half away? So what does this mean for your pension now. We don't know we're going to have to sit down and have meetings and see how that goes so we've got lots of questions about that right now. I'm not quite sure how that's GonNa work out. So the company seems to be indicating and is going to offer severance than it will so follow through pensions but You sound like you're not sure. No I'm not quite sure like you know until you sit down and you hear exactly what they have to say the little skeptical because right now. We don't know laying on your source so many unknowns. What about your colleagues? And you didn't have to be younger than you with this going. I mean how hard is it going to hit. It's going to hit hard like I mean in this area especially there's not a whole lot like you know as far as industry there's a power plant that took that's maybe got a little one hundred people were in there and then here was proud of Vegas one in the area so now that's closed and there's a lot of jobs on Spin Austin. There's a lot of places that Saigon feel not only at the alter The company has been in operation there for Fifty Years in your dad worked. There's here's what I understand. Yes my dad worked there. He's he worked on construction and then he got hired on after the plant was built and then I had four my brothers working there. Also Dave all retired now but I was the last one to retire. Is it hard work working in smelter. It's it has his moments depending on the jobs and things that's going on there sometimes that is physical and it's it's more Health wise and a lot of it because of the gases asses and you're dealing with it is lead arsenic cadmium soldiers a lot of stuff that you've got to take into place. The mayor of Belgian says this this is devastating. And as you say it's going to affect other businesses. I guess as well that count on the money that comes from the people who work there looking at the broader region at Bell Dune bathurst Thursday communities nearby. Our people going to cope with all of this. I don't know I mean it's GonNa Affect like Resent here just to grocery stores were losing. Almost fifty has details dollars a month since we've been on strike because a lot of families and before to go by the big week's groceries Just go and get what you need. That's going to be a big change. It's terrible news. I really appreciate you talking to us. I know it's a difficult day for you. Thank you very much very welcome. All right you take care bye. Bye See Evangi. Tar is one of four hundred twenty employees out of work after the newly announced closure of Brunswick Smelter we reach Mr Guitar in Bathurst New Brunswick Swick when Eric Marciano saw a car barreling towards pedestrians in downtown Montreal. Yesterday he didn't hesitate. He put himself in harm's way to protect the people on the crosswalk. The driver of that car was later arrested. and Mr Marciano is being hailed a hero. We we reached Eric Marciano in Montreal. Mr Marciano win. Did you first realize that something unusual was going on while you were driving. I I was on a street called Berry So facing the main artery Montreal called the limited and the light the guy. The suspect basically tried to run a red light that you realize there was a cop next so he backed up backed up and so they opened windows and they started talking and they just took off. If you're in your car you see. This guy goes through a light and the police are in pursuit. Yes exactly and how close you at this point Just the other lean across like a t he's sped along. I was on my green light because since he burnt his red eyes on my green so I turned left and Kinda followed them. We're not following them going the same direction so I am at the next intersection which is called. Send any very busy intersection. They were already a third intersection. Which is soggy me now at that point his car? Ah hit the SNOWBANK. The police got out of their cars. Were they're pulling their guns. Basically and he was able to escape at that point he backed out made a u-turn so he was coming towards me that was on the other lane. And that's that's really busy intersection Montreal. So he's coming towards you. And what are you thinking. I thought that he he was gonNA interest how he was going really really fast. There was a lot of construction and pedestrians at lunchtime. So I just Basically ran ran my I liked and Talked make sure everyone was out of the way blocked his way so you decided to put your car between him and the Pedestrians yes native act. It's a very very big. It's actually the biggest streets wide streets in Montreal. And there's a media in a concrete median there and So I figured that he wasn't he had a little Honda. There's there's no way he was going over the medium median. We say English learning meeting. So I I completely blocked away for him and the only way he could has basically stopped her go through move which he tried to do so he hits your vehicle. Yes yes and how quickly going when that happened. Probably eighty kilometers an hour. Roughly what did that feel like Well I actually lack just like basically a second. My car jumped out of my car so he impacted acted the passenger side. And you're jumping out the other side. Exactly what honey impact was there. It was pretty hard. I've really big. Suv He get a little Honda. Pretty pretty hard impact. What kind of calculations were you making obviously pretty instantly? When you decided to do this for me? It was a no-brainer. This you know. People were endanger. The car was coming fast. I've a big truck. He has a small car You Know I. I did quick calculations nations and it was worth the risk. Wow so tell me. They reaction As as he hits your vehicle. There's all these people around. What are they saying? What are they doing? Well it's because I had honked so much people were knew something was up So there was that point. People were more on the left of my car. He was on the right so they were kind of like a out of harm's way. There were a lot of construction workers once it hit. They're all very happy that it ended in a nice way. What did they all say to you? There were congratulating and thanking me for helping them with their safety. Tell me what kind of shape the Carson seems to be total total loss. Wow so what is your insurance company. Say while they were at first they were they were telling me that they're gonNa try to do their best. And so on so on. And then they pass the someone higher up and they said The worry we'll take care of it and you won't have to pay deductible and non responsibility and they were also thinking they were aware of after a lot of people might hesitate to to what you did when you want to say to them Dog just do it feels right I mean about that. I sacrificed my life but sometimes I saving many people one person you know part of the calculation you know that's what That's what the good citizens I think are supposed to do. But you could have been injured all could've but then so you know then happened so all good well are you out car shopping shopping No actually it was really kind of attached to my car for ten years but Yeah I guess not not yet I have A. I borrowed my son's car today today so I'll just take it easy and see what happened just a car. It's just a well. It's a great attitude you know. I'm surprised in a way that police didn't scold you a a little bit for for doing what you did. Sometimes they don't like it when when people are expecting it but I think they waited that all the individuals policeman the younger ones. They're all congratulating is leading me so I guess you know good ending story. Look congratulations on. I guess doing the right thing and thriving it and good luck finding another their vehicle. You like so much. Thank you so much. It won't be hard. Thank you have a nice day. You to Fi- Eric Marciano stopped a car from driving into pedestrians industrial's yesterday in Montreal. And that's where we reached him this afternoon. The nineteen year old driver appeared in court and pleaded not guilty to seven charges. His mother thanked Mr Marciano for his quick thinking and said her son has struggled with mental health issues. His entire life in an ongoing strike at the University Prompts Poems from prof it seemed fitting to introduce this next story by summarizing it in the form of a high coup but my attempt. There really doesn't do justice to what Sarah Deleu has been producing on a daily basis for nearly a week. Now Ms Lou is a professor in the Northern Medical Michael Program at the University of Northern British Columbia. She's also a poet and ever since you. NBC's faculty went on strike six days ago. She's committed herself to composing composing a Haiku every day for as long as it lasts this morning she shared her latest composition with the. CBS's Laura Sharp. Letty today's was inspired by all of the Wilderness and all of the wildlife that U. N. B. C. is so often surrounded by and it's titled Very Simply Daily Strike Haiku. Six dear catch their breath when cornered exhaling lean slowly. Quiet hoping in calm threats pass. I sort of took it upon myself in an effort to really try to encourage all players at all levels and all the various sides to put on our best in creative thinking cats in order to do the best for our students and for the future of northern British Columbia and I really couldn't think of any better and more respectful offering short offering of poetry every day that the Faculty Association was picketing. Sarah Deleu is a poet heddon professor in UNBC's northern medical program. She's composing Haiku every day at the faculty as the university remains on strike Turkey's president is back on American soil today and for more at Ya so that brings back some horrible memories. Eighteen months ago. The Kurdish American American man was badly beaten in Washington DC. He was protesting president. Ray Jeb tub air to visit to the White House. When security agents men who worked for President Air John began viciously beating Kurdish protesters? There are disturbing video recordings of the beatings the agents were charged by US sororities but eleven of those charges were later dropped. We're at USA. Suffered brain damage from the attack. But today he's back in Washington protesting president resident aired ones. visit all over again. In fact Mr Yassa is the one who organized the protest we reached him in Washington. DC Mr Yassir. What is it like for you to be back in the same place where you were so badly beaten? Eighteen months ago it is hot. I'm in my my memory. GOES BACK TO TWO TWO YEARS AGO may sixteen it is heart. I mean emotionally Detroit to kill me. I'm very emotional. Of course I mean and terrified but I'm here but this time I'm going to prepare myself so I said this time I'm going to have like a construction heart health. And then today I came to Frontal White House and with With my heart had the feeling instead of the the most terrible thing is OUR PRESIDENT MR trump invited him to White House. I don't think anyone anyone in Congress except Mr Trump and you're there now with this hard hat on to protect yourself. What about the other people in the crowd? What what is the mood like have have? They prepared themselves the same way David not because they didn't leave the things I I mean last time we were like fifteen when when you And then the police number is was not enough to protect us. There's very excited now. To the UC the slowdowns about a lot of our Turkey about invading about killing. The you know some people in there in Syria and on the other courts here. There's Armenian Indian there is there is. How many people do you think are there are five hundred and what's the security presence like as you said last time there were not enough police and other security forces on the US side to protect you while this time they? They did their homework too. I mean there are these C- Police Department Department from safety. Pacman from secure two senators so they are all over this time. Why is it so important written to you to be there to have helped organize protests today especially given all that you have been through a human? I'm good but I'm human and and my pupils dying right. Now there's shelling bombing so there's I mean the innocent people over the civilian you're talking. Take the children. How could I not come here to protest Guam killing you know some people well? As a matter of fact the situation has changed into politically not region since the previous protests because of the Turkish military campaign against the Kurdish forces. Is that invigorated you further. Of Of course this is worse than the two years ago season in the field. Dick Coats are the only the only one thing I says they lost. I eleven thousand men women there Rozsa movement is there lumine movement. They're the age of that movement that freedom not only for the there are many and took many are up the Assyrian all those Ethnicity like mosaic. Let me take you back to two twenty twenty seventeen because there is this terribly disturbing footage in which we can see you and other. Kurdish protesters being viciously beaten by the Turkish security team. That was traveling with President. Air To one. What do you remember about the attack and the moments remember? Yeah I was on the floor. They were kicking me all over my head and they're trying to kill. It is not just like a a protect so far. They say they tried. Hi to protect the president but there was no trick to hear the President I was on the concrete floor and they were teaching me one after another one after another after another. They're not try to cover my head with my arms. I sit on dying I said then all of a sudden my children came with my Is My daughter was going to go college and my son was admitted. Screw so then. I said I'm not going to see them. I'm not going to see. My father is going to marriage she is going to have children granddaughter. Granddaughter Grand Kids I mean is it is. You don't know what to do. What was the long term impact attack? How's it affected you and the life? You've been leaving ten while I am still. I have health issues I have a neurologist still. I'm taking medicine. I cannot sleep taking medicine and then nightmare it is life in prison. As long comes to my dream is given an order attack to is Security Guard and there are starting to heat me catch me and maintain I have a brain. The memory memory loss comes from that. They're trying to fix is it. I have some I have bows of medicine. I'm taking the men who attacked you. Eighteen months ago were initially charged. But most Mr those charges have since been dropped. Will you be looking to see if those are some of the Turkish security forces that are there today Adler brings them with him or a lumbering some others but even though if let's say he comes with that on which the charges trumped like like you say and the police is going to do a recipe and because trump is this from our president. He loves that dog and I don't think he's going to do anything. Do you believe that those men will ever see justice. I DON'T WANNA lose my hope but as fungus. Mr President trump is in the White House. I don't think so if you could sit down with president trump. What would be your message to him? While I'll tell him. Your slogan was make America. Great taking you call the president and then he came to attack your your. You're so is this. Is this the way you're going to make America great thinking. Is this. Have them respect to your season you wrong. That's what I say Mr Yasser. Thank you very much stay safe today thank you so much. Okay bye bye. Yassa is a Kurdish American who organized a protest today outside the White House speaking out against a visit by Turkish president. Ray Tayeb air to one. Mr Yasser was brutally a beaten by members of president aired on security detail in May two thousand seventeen for more on this story go to our website. CBC DOT CA SLASH AI h Western Canada may be mulling over its commitment to Canada. But if they're looking to separate they shouldn't ask their neighbors to the east for advice. That was the message today. Hey From Bloc Quebecois leader eve launched. Mr Blanchette was in Ottawa. Today meeting with Prime Minister Justin Trudeau when reporter asked him to weigh in on the idea idea of western independence. Here's that exchange for the record independence in the West as a province that has gone through it already wizard life likes to people in Alberta Scheduling. Where Meyer is giving? That was already been through this discussion. And then thing to create the green state in Western combat. I might be tempted. Twelve if they are trying to create an oil stinks turned into that big can expect him. He'll France. I still do believe that will do better when it becomes a country so I'm not the one that will fight to a nice United Canada but I will not out some parts of were throwing that good dream of some kind of maybe don't do as far as defendants and maybe they are. The building strong was issued for themselves. But I'm not in that position to government warned up to do and true national or international channels. Charles we will keep fighting decided to obsessively want to extract oil from the ground and may default wall from today. That's bloc Quebecois leader e-filed swab lingerie speaking to reporters in Ottawa. I'm John Morell did it. All the Calgary playwright made a name for himself with the Second World War drama waiting waiting for the parade which brought to life his interviews with women who had worked on the home front while their husbands were fighting overseas his productions since were wide ranging dipping into opera translation adaptation and more. He died this week. After a long battle with leukemia he was seventy four years old in two thousand sixteen John Morell spoke okay with the. CBC About one of his final plays a reimagining of the last hour in the life of recurring Shakespeare character. Sir John Falstaff. I felt the need to To to give falstaff his last hour to show what happens. We hear it reported in in Shakespeare's Henry. The fifth we hear other people talk about how he met his untimely end or maybe timely and but it does feel like false falstaff last hour for Shakespeare is a bit of a footnote or an afterthought and I just thought well we old guys. I mean I'm I'm in my seventies now and if falstaff was in his fifties which is likely He was the equivalent of a seventy year old so So I sort of wanted to give him and maybe give myself kind of good exit saying you know Canadian playwright John Morell speaking with. CBC Calgary's David Gray about his play. Fat Jack Falstaff last hour in two thousand sixteen. Mr Morell L. died of leukemia this week. Anita Majumdar is an actor and playwright. Who was in John Morales? Who was John? Morales prochet through the governor. General's Performing Arts Ward mentorship enter ship program. We reached her in Toronto. Ms Majumder my condolences to you. Thank you go through your mind. As you hear hear that clip of John Morello reflecting on his play fat Jack Falstaff last hour. The thing about John was that in his self deprecation of Sort of referring to himself as an old man and referring to his immense Manson long legacy in Canadian theatre history. He was actually really young at heart ahead. A real curiosity for the work that you normally family finding in artists who are just beginning their careers and I think his approach so work was always with his mindset that there's still room to expand the sort of underlying definition of what it is to make theater what it is To Be Theater you I met Mr Morell at the Kennedy Council Fiftieth Anniversary in two thousand seven. Can you tell us what you remember about that evening. I remember being A one of the few people who didn't know Most people in that room and John and I had been seated at the same dinner table and John didn't make me feel like I was sitting next to the Great John Morale. He sat next to me and we talked for the entire evening. And in my memory of of that dinner I also think it was just him and me sitting at this very large table in this in fact not true true There were very many people at that table. It's that we were the last people sitting about table because we were there till midnight just talking to one another you later. became his T- through the Governor General's Performing Arts Awards Mentor Ship Program. What did you learn from him during all of that There's a lot of things that I learned from John. One of those things was most definitely having really clear boundaries between professional and personality. It's not that he was a slave to the work and Sacrificed his own family. He loved his family of his extremely clear. Every time we we met and spoke and work together but he also had a separate space for his work That when he was was in the throes of being a writer and and how selfish second sometimes feel that he cleared separate space which was away from his family so that when he was with his Lupton once he was really with them. You know in an interview with the Globe and Mail about your partnership. He said that he hoped to learn. Just as much from you as you would learn from him Do you think that happened. Can you tell me a little bit about the professional development. You experience working together. He what he said in the Golden Male. He'd said to me on numerous occasions that for him this mentorship was a was fluid would in its direction that he was equally eager to learn what what I could offer and and to see play writing and making plays through through my lens which was very different from his. At the time I had been writing a show about shade Azeem in shade them. Is You know the the experience. For instance warning lighter fairer skin color and that was an experience a John hadn't had and it was one that I was very well versed in. It was a very immediate for me and things like that burgeoned into talking about our experiences of also also being Canadian playwrights But that that came from you know deep within us from places generosity and and deep kindness or at least a desire to be kind and desire to be honest. I think that's what we shared but our lenses are what we're different. I imagined today a lot. The people across the country who know and Love Theater are thinking about his impact on the Canadian. Theatres seen But but more specifically he was very committed. Did to Calgary in Calgary theaters seen. What do you think accounted for his particular affection for for the theater life of that city? I think it's a where he started. I think it's where his family was. It was his first point of migration when he he left the United States. I think it also speaks to the actual theater community. In Calgary it's it's hard to leave There is a remember. He hit once told me that he had a job offer to write for days of our lives. In your but New York wasn't home and it wasn't the right fit but that he entertained it and you know entertain the idea of moving his family there But ultimately you know to the end of his days it was always cow grave always out BERTA. Yeah so you've shared a lot of wonderful memories with US already but as you're thinking back on your time together and your your friendship. Is there something that stands out for you that you'd like to share with us I remember when away staying at the Banff Centre Center and I told John I'm I'm I'm not sleeping very well And because he had been the director of the theater program is he's really familiar with the territory and he had said you know when I first took up the job I was told that there's a lot of spirit activity in this area that you know we are on a land that many indigenous people don't actually live there because of this kind of spirit activity and Justice Justice. He told me that we saw coyote cross across our path Because we were driving in the car and he said it's a very special place ace and maybe it might be in your in your interest to just have a moment to understand that there. There's as an energy in a in a life force that is that is a greater beyond you and it's It's what I'm really holding onto today. Thank you so much for sharing that with us. I appreciate it thank you you too. Anita Majumdar is an actor and playwright in Toronto. Her Mentor. John Morell died this week week. He was seventy four years old. A Rod Stewart loves nothing more than listening to some hot tracks and then watching the little train. Come around the corner on those tracks for the past twenty three years. The British singer has been working on a sprawling extremely detailed model railway railway city it's modeled after New York and Chicago in nineteen forty five and it features dozens of buildings bridges and of course trains. He granted the magazine Railway. Modular exclusive interview on his creation which he completed over the span of thirteen studio albums and nineteen tours which led UH BBC to radio to host Jeremy Vine to speculate on air that. Perhaps the singer didn't actually build himself so Mr Stewart phoned into the BBC ABC hosts Radio Show today to clear things up. My friends My wife called. And she said they're talking about your route laird and insinuates insinuate saying that You didn't oil yourself. Well that's the reason I I was worried about that. The reason I insinuated that is because it's so enormous I didn't believe you could have built it single handedly. Yeah it's I would say ninety percent a- built myself the only thing I was very good at and still I'm not is electrical. It was so that I had someone else do that. So so just tell us what it contains what it features rods. Well I would say it It's not not built on any prototypical city but it's a cross between Chicago and New York and that's it the engines The engines might funny. Sounds you could hear people talking into carriages. It's the visuals a one thing if you heard it. It's amazing so when you get into the room it's in Rhodesia press start and the trains go and you watch it or what. Yeah Yeah you have to line up all the computers Any more or less press co two run about eight trains. The time it's so big. They never bump into each other but he's really noisy. It is quite incredible. I'm so proud and I'm so proud of the coverage it got I. I look at it pig a silly hobby but it's a wonderful job. That was Rod Stewart speaking with BBC radio to host Jeremy Vine about his model railway city in Bolivia appears to have a president tonight. A senator named Janine Unas amounts announced that she's stepping into the vacuum left by able Morales when he fled the country earlier this week but opinions about the new government's legitimacy depend on where you stand from his asylum in Mexico. Mr Morales has denounced his ouster. As COO cloudy Opinion Claros is a former minister enable Morales government we reached return Lopez. Ms Penny Claros Ever Morales calling his removal from power. Aku what would you call it. I would call it the same way. Because Evermore List has been chosen in two thousand sixteen with sixty percent and all the votes to president of for the until January two thousand twenty as you know the organization Asian of American the states which recently acted as an observer in the elections in your country declared that most recent election as being highly concerning turning. They they do not feel it with a legitimate victory. There are pointing to a potential election fraud by Mr Morales and his supporters. How how is it correct? Then that he continue on an office A then we say some here that the has the topic. We have known certain deals that back when we talk about that. We are not thinking about the recent elections. Sean we are not talking about wrote. We are talking that in twenty-fifty there has been an election and they will modalities has won that election. Nixon I understand. I understand though that that you're saying that he should stay on until the end of his his term in January but there were So many heated protests in the street growing anger in Bolivia and you know a lot of people were very concerned that that was going to escalate the she then had sake on Sunday that he accept that the election of October would be nothing. Nothing and that I knew Nixon would come back on US getting this power and in this moment right now. The police don't let their legislators. We'll get into the khanate the president of this nape deep down not go into this innate work so you are concerned that the police and the military are preventing the the existing in government from continuing. Its work. Yes yes do you accept though that there were serious irregularities in the election yes yes I I accept that there had been irregularities in the month. The Party has accepted the rolling. Can you religious necessary Janina Anez has stepped into the president's T.. Do you accept her as president at this point no no because before that they recently statement later off the president of the semait advance. How gear for that has to be accepted in this name? Why these let their if not accepted sheets fees breath event of the snake? I think so. In this moment we have a president of the Senate and her name is Teddy. Allison but here but the police don't let her go into this ornate accomplish he's functions. You mentioned that Mister Morales said he accepts that new elections actions must be held. President onions is promising to hold those elections as soon as possible. Do you think that that will be a legitimate election. I really don't know because there has been last month. A Danish people not the minds against the the leaders of the mice not only against the president or the vice president or the minister that has been hung name that has been by your name against the leaders of the political party and right now we are having harassment and violence against the the legislators of the political party mass so in this scenario. I don't think that we can talk about. Oh normal elections because there are political. Don't get are being harassed. Will what about you yourself. I mean Mr Morales remains in in Mexico. He's safe there. You are back in Bolivia. Are you concerned about your own safety concerned about the range inch that you can see the streets day. They're against the people of the party. I leave in a nail yet of middle class and and I feel a little bit then to go into the streets because I don't think that somebody will kill me because perhaps they they showed up need or they insulted me so I wouldn't want that situation to happen. How divided is your country right now? It's very divided. His hand in it is very sad. Because in modalities west East Coast Source Indian Express then and the government has made a lot of work. Do get over the UH discrimination to get over the racist culture that we have here. There is a culture of racism hearing believed media and the government had made a lot of effort to get over that and what I see now east got. May we discuss the issues that we lost of racist things going on out that discussions was and there are signs. That people like Jellinek Macho face. I am not the right racy we equalize but what they said the quarter of races and that has some vite these years of able more not less government and and that is that. These divides Hispania. Clarice I thank you very much for taking time to speak with us. We appreciate it thank you. I thank thank you okay goodbye. Cloudy Opinion Claros served as Bolivia's minister under Evo Morales. We reached her in Lopez. Mr Morales US gave up power and fled the country earlier this week. You've been listening to the as it happens. podcast our show can be heard Monday to Friday on. CBC Radio One and on Sirius XM following world. Six you can also listen to the whole show on the Web ebb. Just go to. CBC DOT CA slash. Ah and follow the links to our online archive. Thanks for listening. I'm Helen Man and I'm Karen Gordon and yeah for more C._B._C.. PODCASTS Goto C._B._C.. Dot C._A. Slash podcasts.