19 Episode results for "marketing and sales"
Agent Survival Guide - The Site
"Agent survival guide dot com was made for health and life insurance agents. Like, you recite provides the marketing and sales information you need to know, whether you're a beginner expert or aspiring agent, we offer tips on a variety of topics lake creating your personal brand making the most of your time and working on the road are free resources include e-books guides PDF downloads, info graphics, but we don't stop there. Stay in the note with blog posts that are Chuck full of info on running a business compliance roles news and more. In addition to all of that, there's the agent survival guide forum where you can network with others and discuss our latest articles. And if you're the kind of agent who is always on the run or has a long commute. You can listen to our content on the go with the agent survival guide podcast eager to learn more head over to our website. That's agent survival. Guide dot com and subscribe to our Email list. So you never have to miss a beat while generating leads.
Dreamers: Behind the Scenes
"Hello and welcome back we are just including the first week a month to of encyclopedia will mantica despite the fact what the show is quite short there's a lot that goes into each segment you may be wondering how do we put all this together what goes into every episode i decided it would be fun to bring my sister was on air talking about are process so liz what's your process hi there i've always loved history and i am also a bit of a nerd after leaving a job they've been out for years i decided to use my newfound free time to look into the stories of great forgotten the women from history and was deeply inspired by the vast ness of what i found once we decided this might be interesting to other people as well i use the research skills are learning college and grad school to source the stories and incredible women for year plus some i wanna make sure that we had a diverse group of went into so i took pains to ensure we had a wide variety of women from around the globe and across time period not only is this historically representative but there's something special about listening to the story of a woman who for whatever reason you personally identify and we want to maximize that opportunity for all of our listeners than we did a lady draft yeah we started the women into different categories like pioneers would you heard last month and dreamers which you'll hear all of this once we had all the women divided and months you have to decide which stories we were gonna cut bernau and then alphabetize thrash then we had to script edit record find archival audio we've all of that together with music and cut it down to about five minutes bottom line it's a ton of work to keep the show going in we didn't even talk about the marketing and sales the goes in keeping up when it's time for us to go to sleep it's vital that we sleep well you could probably tell the were obsessed with telling stories of expert and the people at casper are experts in creating mattresses casper mattress is continually approved by team of engineers to make it comfortable anatomically supportive and focus on spinal alignment special thanks to casper
Introducing Vital Science
"And so this is a new podcast Charles River where we explore the stories behind the science although we currently have responsibilities for global marketing and sales hi I'm Gina Mullane and I'm Chris Garcia and welcome to vital sign operations. We both began our journey in the laboratory over the past few decades here we've experienced the impact science has on our lives. Now be sure to find us on Apple PODCASTS stitcher or wherever you get your podcast you can also visit us at sea river dot com slash vitalsigns cast subscribe now so you don't miss our first episode of Vital Science on Tuesday October twenty second understand the emotional connection we all have with it we are excited to share the personal side of science and you can join US each month as we share these stories hear from scientists patients and advocates in the life sciences to understand their motivation and personal connection with their work.
Episode 571 How Marketing Should Connect The Dots To More Sales?
"Everyone agrees Bacon. Make everything better even marketing. This is the vacant podcasts. You'll learn to cure your marketing. Victor Internet Marketing Online Marketing. Social Media. Tips intact now to help you bring more Bacon Hall Master Marketing Sizzle Brian Basilica. This is the Bacon podcast. Welcome everybody I'm your host. Brian BASILICA IN. This is the podcast. Where you learned to make your business sizzle online. So are you ready to fry up some new business? Hey peeps so I don't know about you but I like puzzles. Now I'm not talking about the jigsaw kind. Those things annoy me a lot of work but the kind of puzzles I like are puzzled games. I remember years ago getting my Sunday. Paper opening it up to the magazine and doing the jumble single week. Jumble was a bunch of letters that were organized differently. And you had to figure out what the word was. I love those this matter of fact doing those for years me a pretty good player on wheel of fortune when I watch it but today I wanna talk about a different kind of puzzle. And that's connecting the dots now. You're marketing should connect the dots to more sales when we think about connect the dots think of a child's picture inside of that there's a bunch of dots and you have to go by dot by dod and eventually when you connect all the dots it creates a very clear picture but the dots themselves come. Just sit out there on their own if you don't do them in the right order you don't get the desired result. It's the same thing with marketing and sales with marketing. Marketing should be part of the sales process. Those dots should connect but a lot of time with marketing. I find people used be saucer. Bright Shiny Object Syndrome and just start putting dots all over the place and hope that those dots will eventually start to create the picture. An example of this is I talked with the client today. They wanted to do video. They said they were doing videos of different things already but they wanted to turn it into more program so the question that I asked was how does doing video. Connect the dots between marketing and sales. There was dead silence. It's like I don't know so. That's the question that we had the answer. Here's how marketing should lead to sales. Just like that Kid's picture puzzle. Every dot has a purpose. And if you don't do them in the right order you don't get the desired results. So every dodge should be a measurable step. Secondly each one of those dots need to be interconnected meaning that every dot should lead to something that creates a real in person conversation that is ultimately what is going to drive sales in third. It has to create a measurable percentage of income. Somehow some way you have to be able to connect the process to an outcome once you have all of those dots aligned and you connect them in the right order. It creates a very clear picture of how your marketing can help generate sales so I wanNA break this process down to three different processes and each one of them has three steps so the first process is it has to be done in your marketing. Is there to get attention? Think about creating a graphic in social media. If people don't stop as you're scrolling you basically have lost an opportunity. You can't get anybody to take action on that. That's the second step. You WanNa grab their attention and get them to take some action and then from that action. You want to create some kind of outcome. The outcome generally is a conversation so the second piece of this puzzle is defining the steps in the middle. The first one of those is once you engage the reader. And you catch there. I can you get them to move onto the next dot and then next dot is to take some sort of action that action generally will be read the piece or engage with the peace or comment on the peace so a like a comment is always what the goal of that piece is not to just consume it. You WanNa make sure that people are engaging with what you're doing. The third step in this piece is to create that outcome and that is can you get them in one way shape or form married to your content in a way that you can get them on a list? Get them to follow what you're doing. Start a conversation with them. Bill that know like and trust the third part of this concept is to close the loop. What do I mean by closing the loop? Well first and foremost you WANNA create a fan. That's the first step you want somebody to engage with your content but look forward the next piece so if you're doing things in the sequence that they're following along step by step you want to get them to look forward to your next piece of content that builds on what you're doing. I see this all the time. With my quotes of the day people will start to like it and then start to look for the next one over and over and over. I've done the same thing inside of linked in with my Bacon `ISMs where I've created thirty plus different taxed blocks that are in graphics that people will constantly look for every single day. The second step of this then is to continue to increase their interaction. You want to get them to go from alike to a comment and as they start to comment more if they start to agree with what you're saying they may even take it the next level which is the best level and that is to share your content by doing that. You've gone to step three. You've now created a stark raving fan. That will either take action on what it is that you posted or even better yet. They'll share it with their creating a new connection and building your spear infants based on their connections so revisiting. Those three main parts part one is it has to be done in order if you don't do it in a right or you don't get the desired results. You can't skip one of those dots. Every single one of them has a purpose. The second piece is you have to have definitive steps in the middle every dot leads to another dot and that dot starts to make the picture clear until you get to the end where you do. Have this complete finished thing. The now you could recognize as a process something that has a definitive end and is very clear as to what the outcome is in. The last piece of. This is to close the loop. Make sure that you follow all the way through all of those dots so as you do more than more people start to join in and engage with what it is that you're doing in your marketing so as I said in the beginning every marketing piece should lead to three things number one measurable steps every single piece has to have some kind of measurement attached to it. Whether it's engagement likes whatever. The second piece is creating a real in person conversation. The goal of all sales is to get to talk to somebody. They may not be ready to by now. But by having a conversation you can lease plant the seed in the final pieces by connecting all those dots in the right order you create income in the form of sales so I hope you found this interesting. If you did please go to Bacon. Podcast DOT com and leave a comment or joining my email list. That way you'll know every single week when new episodes are produced and thanks again for being an avid listener of the Bacon. Podcast well. That's it for today's vacant podcast. We hope you enjoyed it and learned something today. If you did please go to. I tunes and give us a review. We appreciate all your feedback and comments if you have any questions go to. Www DOT bacon. Podcast DOT COM forward slash questions? We'll make sure we get those answered for you till next time keep sizzling.
Episode 580 How To Increase Your Return On Relationship Investment By Interacting Human to Human
"Everyone agrees Bacon. Make everything better. Even marketing. This is the fake and podcasts. You'll learn to cure your marketing victor. Internet marketing online marketing social media tips intact now to help you bring more Bacon. Hall Master Marketing Sizzle Ryan Basilica. This is the Bacon podcast. Welcome everybody. I'm your host Brian. Basilica in this is the podcast where you learned to make your business sizzle online. So are you ready to fry up some new business? Hey peeps! So a head somebody, contact me about reading. My first book called. It's not about you. It's about Bacon, but the main title is relationship marketing in a social media world. Any comment back and said. You want me to do more networking in the answer. I gave him was yes, but he was thinking I meant face to face networking. And in the middle of the pandemic that's a little hard. But, that's not the point of the book. The point of the book is how to do face to face type that working. In a social media world. And that's kind of the point daddy missed. There's a big difference between social media and social networking. Social media is more like advertising. were social networking is more based in relationship marketing. And a lot of people don't understand how to transpose face to face marketing to. In person, relationship marketing online. The biggest differences is that. It's all about creating one on one conversations online. More, networking live in a group, it's different. People are reading your facial expressions. They're reading your body language. They may even interpret what you say differently, but the bottom line is. You're communicating with a large group of people online it's. Two, one. It's the same thing with zoom meetings. You could be in the zoom meeting where we have everybody spread out, but people can only pay attention to one square at a time. I've been doing a lot of one on one zoom meetings where it's basically just meet communicating with another person that is relationship marketing online. Social media is about posting things to get people's attention, but social networking is about engagement. When you post a post, you hope somebody comments on it. The question is. Are you continuing the conversation? Are you commenting on their comments? Are you creating direct messages with people. Do you find an interesting article or accompany person and send a message to somebody and say hey, do you know this person or this company? Have you read this article? That want one on one networking in social media. Space is like. So I. Want you to think about two different concepts and I call them H. TO H. and R. O. R.. H. Two eight stands for human to human contact. Our our stands for return on, relationship. So. Let's break those down. If. You were to search age to age right now or human-to-human. You would find a lot of articles about basically transmitting virus, human team and transfer. And, essentially it's a good metaphor for what we're doing in the H., two H. Space. The key thing that you have to think about is how are you basically creating viral information that creates that one to one transmission. In researching this. I found an article on Google. That said that two thousand eighteen. Will be the year of human to human marketing or a TO H. Well I can tell you. It's been that way forever. Think about things that you do that. Create engagement people. An example of this is there's a new feature on Lincoln that allows you to create a poll in a post. In the one that I recently did I said, what is your least favorite phrase? especially ones that are being thrown around recently in the current environment. And the four choices were the new normal. Pivot. reinvention. And in this together. and. Of course, people would be able to vote on those four, and that's one of the challenges is a Lincoln limit you to only four options. And what happened was people were saying well. They're all bad, but you know what. There's some other ones I think you should have had I think you should have added up leveling or uncertain times or unprecedented times. Where another one? Stay safe. So, yeah people had other ones that they wanted to add. And we created conversations around this, but it definitely stirred emotion, and as a ton of votes already in a lot of comments, so that was a way to create engagement, and it gave me the opportunity to communicate directly with some of those people. If you don't follow me on Lincoln, you should, but. I'm sure you're curious about which ones winning well right now. The one that's winning. The most votes is the new normal. People hate it. And that's okay, but the point was to generate the conversation not to. You Know Bashar phrase. So what you have to understand is that the goal of your content is to create that one to one human to human relationship. Now the next thing we want to talk about is. How do we capitalize on that? How do we get the Roi or return on investment on what we're doing? That, return on investment is our our return on relationship. A return on relationship is the long term value that you have of nurturing those conversations. People are looking for a direct connection on sales. They just want to go in meet. Somebody and boom sell them something, but especially in the B. Two B. Space. It takes time. It could take upwards of two three years to get somebody to go from knowing you to trusting you enough to purchase what you have. So. There's a lot of things that you can use to measure that are. Think about getting recommendations on Lincoln. Or maybe after time, people might refer you to somebody. They may become your advocate. There are certain things that I post on Lincoln that. People constantly share like my Bacon I love when they do that. Because as like what I have and they sure with their audience, so they're advocating for the content that I'm putting up. I posted something the other day about the Poo Poo Platter and somebody sent me an invite and said Hey. I love your stuff so much. I want to interview. That is building on that relationship. The other thing that you can get from this is education. You can have conversations and learn from other people. And you can also create an opportunity to put some information in front of some people listen to them. I call this crowd. Sourcing I did it with my book. I put up my covers and I kept asking people. Do you like this one? This one or this one? I gave them three four choices, and they voted on it, and from that I was able to crowdsource the concept. I also did the same thing inside of linked and facebook I created two different images images with the exact same text, the concept I was trying to get feedback on with something I actually had from conversation on Lincoln and that was I help bridge the gap between marketing and sales, so one had this kind of three d star wars, looking bridge, and the other one had a cartoon with a gap between two plateaus and somebody putting a light bulb across them. And on facebook, everybody was voting for the cartoony looking one. But when I put them in linked in the one that got the most comments the most likes the most attention was the one with kind of Cool Space Image! So that's a clear example of using social networking content. To create human to human interaction to build a return on relationship that hopefully we'll turn into future sales. So I hope you've found this interesting. If you did do me a favor and share with your friends, or go on Itunes or your platform of choice and give us a review if you have any questions, send me an email at ask Brian at B. Two B. Dash Dot com. I'd love to hear your questions. Well that's it for today's Bacon podcast. We hope you enjoyed it and learned something today. If you did, please go to I tunes and give us a review. We appreciate all your feedback and comments. If you have any questions, go to www dot bacon podcast dot com forward slash questions. We'll make sure we get those answered for you till next time. Keep sizzling.
How to Handle Negative Comments Effectively | Episode #026
"Before starting this episode. I want to ask that do you want to sell your product or your service with your birds? Do you want to learn how to persuade people anytime anywhere wage? If you are able to touch the emotions of your prospect or make them very curious then you and your service Can Do Magic. That's for sure and for you guys I'm giving you a super duper valuable gift, which is my free ebook that thought of the bookcase powerful birds that sell. All right snatch away your free copy. Now from my website the linkage mentioned in the description box. So again download this highly valuable ebook if you want to uplift your business to the next level Tri now all over to the episode for which you are here just after this in intro. Hello fantastic listeners, you are listening to the podcast Marketplace Academy off position where I will be sharing anything and everything about LinkedIn marketing and sales closing off. I am your host the pool table Abby to be entrepreneur and founder of two businesses which are from manufacturing and marketing industry. I help them to be business owners like me to close High ticket sales and build a strong Authority on LinkedIn through my one-to-one Consulting session if she want to know more or want to book a slot of 121 session with me then log on to my website canceled with Google.com off. It is indeed very difficult to deal with negative opinions and feedback. This difficulty has grown exponentially since people have different platforms where they can come. Honestly, this is certainly their rights but one negative comment can become viral and cut the stinks of trust that you have met your clients. All right. So there are a couple of questions that arises from this. First how to tackle the situation and second how to manage your product reputation, right? So I want to tell you five useful points that will help you to handle all the negative feedback. In the first point, I want to say that you can't ignore the negative comments, right? Taking negative comments not into consideration will version and gradually defame your brand name. And once more like this point can blow out of proportion if there are other viewers participating. In such a situation you will have to intervene get into the loop and with great dignity admit and accept your mistakes only if you have done that. Coming to the second point in which you cannot over-promise. If you can't do a quick fix or resolve the situation on time, you will have to buy time right and if you have a team that develops your product then you should also have a great support team that when does support all right and make sure that your users are not frustrated with your services. Company like Dell is very successful because they give a killer post sales service rep. Now let's talk about the third point in which you have to ask for a favor. Once you have held the user and provide them with the concrete solution, then gently ask the user to give feedback on the very same platform where it all started. All right. If the client fails to do it, you can definitely throw light on the situation and appeal to the audience that all problems have been eradicated wage and the entire situation is under control. Coming to the fourth point in which you have to document the negative comment. So if a negative or controversial comment comes up on Twitter Facebook or on your website. The first thing you should do is to take a screen capture off or documented in some way. Some things can be deleted or Modified by the poster. So it is very very important to have the proof. And in the fifth and last point, I want to say that please keep it cool. It's not uncommon that an offended customer or Internet troll is trying to get an emotional reaction or response from the opposed. It is critical that you never take it personally or engage or challenge the person negatively. All right. Remember this in public you are being just by not only the poster but all your followers. I wish you all the very best for your future professional growth. All right guys, thank you. So so so very much for investing your precious time till the end of this episode. It really means the world to me. Thanks a ton. Once again, I want to tell you that I'm active mostly on Linden and I you can also follow me and be a part of my Linden family. My followers are close to 30,000 people right now. One last thing if you took any value from my content, then kindly go to my podcast episodes or my Apple podcast over there just right off of you. Write a review and please subscribe to my podcast to get updates about upcoming episodes as well. All right, so that's it for this episode and I'm looking forward to have you on the next one. This is your host visible signing off from your own show marketing Academy of Public Relation. Take care, and I love you all off.
193: The Product Narrative - Chris Ortolano
"<music> you're listening to the daily sales tips podcast. I'm your host Scott Ingram today. I've got another tip for you from Chris or to Llano Donald Principal and founder of outbound edge here. He is with the tip. Are you interested in developing a storytelling or narrative approach for sales and marketing product narratives convey emotions and ideas through tension related to change narratives can be hard to develop and even harder harder to get started. What's the first thing you should do before developing your cells narrative. If you're in sales and marketing or developing a new product ask yourself. How well do you know your customers. Have you considered their goals. What are the outcomes. They need to achieve. How does your product or service. Impact or change their process. How do you define the new process requirements and finally who else benefits after the implementation mutation. If you can't answer these questions walk down the hall and talk to your colleagues in customer success and account management. Ask them these five questions who is using your product now humanize your customer make them the hero of your story using specific acidic location and even references that allow us to empathize with this person seconds what was a day in their work life like before they started. I started using your product or service. Describe how they're old daily workflow contributed to bottlenecks and constraints third. How did those constraints create a need or desire for change define the Aha moment when they decided to consider using a product like yours forth. What was the transition plan that gave them the confidence to embrace your solution explain how you aligned their goals and their specific outcomes with your process and new process requirements fifth what changed in terms of a day in their air new life describe the outcomes in terms of workflow collaboration data decision making and more at the end of the day your product narrative active as a story about change full of hope ambition and maybe even a little despair? These are the experiences we can all relate to helping your. Audience Understand and relate to how you can help them spend fifteen minutes asking your co workers questions above start writing your own product narrative framework and then use this framework to start crafting your own customer stories to learn more about Chris and for some great resource links click over to daily sales dot tips forward slash one ninety three one of those links is to Chris's linked in profile connect with Chris and he'll send you a free lucid chart template to map your own own five-step product narrative framework that you can use to craft your customer stories for marketing and sales. Thanks for listening and come back tomorrow for another great tip from Jeff after George.
AI Today Podcast #81: How AI Enhances Sales Use Case Series
"The today podcast produced by cowed Milica cuts through the hype and noise to identify what is really happening now in the world of artificial intelligence. Learn about emerging trends technologies and use cases from cognreznick analysts and guests experts. Hello and welcome to the today podcast. I'm your host, Kathleen mulch, and I'm your host bottled schmeltzer. So in today's podcast for continuing with our AI use case series and talking about how a is enhancing various different industries today. We're talking about how is enhancing sales. So this is mentioned part of our use case juries, we'll talk about the different applications, but then hopefully can generalize it to other. Apple captions sales are an important part for just about every single organization AI in cognitive technologies are helping sales teams in a variety of ways. And in today's podcast. Like Ron said, we want to dig into these various use cases, these AI tools are helping to analyze prospects emotional states to improve cross up selling opportunities. They're also helping with response times for inbound inquiries, they're improving the matching of sales reps to customers and people that call in and they're also providing better lead scoring so taken together these improvements really helped make sales teams more efficient and successful. The thing that ties lot of that together that sales is still a human to human activity because at the end of the day as intelligent as we make machines. They're not buying anything. Right. People are still buying stuff. I mean, I guess one day systems will automatically buy stuff for us. But they won't be influenced by salespeople. That's for sure. So really the whole thing about sales is having these systems help humans be better at talk nother humans for the purpose of making money. So for organizations that depend on phone based sales. We see algorithms is having a very positive result in doing a few things one it's helping to better match, the caller. So the people who are trying to buy something to the most appropriate agents to really maximize the sale up sell of products cross, Ella parks and services because people have different personality types, some people like an aggressive person, some people like more laid back and so- matching the people's very important organizations are increasingly using these systems to help optimize the matching between individuals for sales support and other sorts of human to human interaction's. These algorithms are able to take him. Account of variety of data points about the caller and these systems help gather information such as their inbound interest match this data with the profile of the client as well. As the salesperson and also notes from the CRM systems and other third party, profiling formation such as social media data. So these systems kind of create this profile and use machine learning to then help dentistry, the patterns of successful and unsuccessful client interactions within matter of seconds. So these panels are applied in real time to make manage augment human parents and measure the outcome to provide feedback for future. Parents right. And as Ron mentioned sales are still human-to-human at the end of the day. So these are committed intelligence features that these call centers are providing algorithms are also being used in an augmented intelligence way for agents to provide further assistance by recommending responses to questions asked from the callers, or analyzing callers voice and suggesting actions that the agent can take such as slowing down their speech or. Finding more detailed responses, if there's, you know, the AI system is sensing that the caller on the other end just as an understanding things, and it can also help with empathizing more with the caller. Additionally, these AI systems are able to monitor the calls in real time. And then allow supervisors to step in if needed where in the past that might not have always been possible because you know, it would take the human on the line to raise their hand to say, hey, I need help. But now these systems can proactively do that. And then once the call is complete these systems can analyze the call and the data collected on the call to provide suggestions for future calls. No, obviously a lot of sales in general's going. The way of self service and going the way of ecommerce people don't wanna be interacting with humans at all for a lot of millennials millennials. But you know, there's still a lot of punks just require human interactions still not possible really to buy things like real estate cars entirely over ecommerce. You still need the sales professional. He may not be thinking about a real estate Asia sales professional, but a realistic is a sales professional, and these systems are helping with all the sorts of stuff. So these air systems are really good at helping sales agents of all types and organizations close their deals better. And you know, one common problem with sales is that sales teams don't always follow up with all the potential leads. You know, they let them go cold sometimes the cherry pick. They're like, oh, this looks good one. I'm gonna work that. And this is looks like a lame o website inquiry. I'm not gonna follow up on that. No data. Right. And so let them go cold. But actually, we help your enjoying this podcast and sorry for the brief interruption cardinal etiquette. Not only produces the podcast that you're listening to right now. But we also generate research and advisory to help companies make sense of AI cognitive technologies. We also run the most authoritative vendor -tural AI machine learning training and certification on the market. If you're looking to make AI reality for your organization. Our three day Letica training is for you. If you're interested in attending. You can find pricing and registration on our website at cognreznick dot com. We'll also provide a link in the show notes, we've met many of our podcast listeners in our classes. And we hope that we'll see you there as well. Now back to the podcast. But actually, it could be the reverse the person you're interacting with a lot may really be a waste of time. And that one lame. Oh that you thought was on the website may actually be the gold mine. So this happens for a lottery isn't sometime sales reps may follow up a few times. And then they get no response or no reply, and they just give up. No other times the sales reps may leave the company, and so a lot of the knowledge and the relationships an L, those leads kind of go to and whoever picks it up doesn't really know how to pick up and that stuff or the problem could be that a lead comes in from some low performing channels. I mentioned Email inquiry website that you know, maybe one on every hundreds real. And so you kind of tend over time Teknor that stuff. And so over time their flag with a lowly score. So the sales reps don't wanna follow up. But the thing about it is that this is where I can help especially we think of as a sales assistant inaugurated sales not our sales replacement. They can help nurture these leads so Amazon assistance are being adopted by organizations in ways to lounge sales teams to automate and improve the routine LeBron. Parts of the marketing and sales funnel. So these autonomous agents can proactively identify and prioritize new opportunities as they come an automatic respond to leads it can keep track of sort of like that sales velocity. You know, leads that it looked like, oh, they didn't have interest banal of a sudden they have interest and this allows for faster responses to individuals enquiring about proxima services and not letting things fall through the cracks in a lot of times people looking at twenty different options that maybe they want this. Maybe they want that. Maybe they're not sure what they want. Right. And then sometimes somebody just picks up the phone and talks to them, whoever that person talks them gets that sale because they helped them under stand. What it is that they're trying to buy right? As you mentioned earlier with a real estate agent, for example, you don't always think of them as a sales rep. But if they're reaching out to people say, you know, I reached out to them. And I said, hey, I'm looking to move for whatever reason I didn't move if I'm not followed up with then I will go cold as a lead, but maybe a year from now, I'm actively looking to buy a house, and if they had kept that relationship going and just checked in every couple of months, very casually, you know, not aggressively. Not high sales not high pressure and just checked in and found out where I was what I was doing. Then maybe they could have finally converted me as a customer. But if they don't do that, then they have no idea where I am within that wholesale cycle. We also talk a lot about conversational AI tools in just about every single use case podcast because this technology really has a broad impact across a wide range of industries and uses for sales conversational agents can automatically engage with nurture. Follow up and qualified leads through a variety of channels such as Email or chat before handing these leads off to a human sales rep to eventually close the deal. AI sales assistant tools are able to follow up with every lead and help companies avoid missing out on potential sales revenue through the reasons that Ron mentioned above because these systems just don't behave like humans in the way that you know, they don't have bias like we do where they and they don't use their previous judgment. And now edge saying, hey, well, typically, this leads the come in through Email or leads come in from our website or leads come in through this event that we went to our low performing. So I'm not gonna follow up them. This will not judge it will just follow up. And so that's what's great about it. I think that's really helpful sales is about relationships in first and foremost people want to buy stuff, but you know, especially if they have choices going to be about relationships, and so as we talked about actually on some other podcasts the thing about sales permits is that they're finding value in trying to understand more about provide more analytics into recording phone calls or team meetings or conversations that Jerry insights from interactions with customers and others. So with speech attacks, Kimberley's and natural language. They really understand these conversations that are happening in the context. They can also create notes and create takeaways as mentioned you hear that message in this call may be recorded for quality, assurance, whatever purposes. And you're like, what are they really recording for they're really recording for sales training or like, maybe something bad happened. And they're like why? Did this some craziness happen to go back? Let's go to the tape. I know. So I wonder I'm like, well, it says it may be recorded so Mike. Okay. Well, is it? And then number two. What exactly are they doing this? Do they ever actually go back and listen to it and analyze are sometimes used for auditing purposes, or like forensic purposes when something happened when I go back, the definitely recording the sitting somewhere the thing about it is it's just sitting there sitting there. They're the number of unstructured data. We talk about and stroke. It's a form of unstructured data the voice, even the transcriptions are unstructured sitting there transcriptions throw actually a number of companies that we've track over three thousand vendors track. There's a bunch that are actually trying to unlock this power of the recording. So these tools are being used to unlock the hidden dimensions that governor conversations in the enterprise, and you know, these are going to be used to help celsius. What if you can actually analyze every single phone call when you're done not just how long was the phone call, but like can you detect some interest, the interest level increased their interest level decrease? They start asking questions that were not. Part of the script trigger words. What words triggered positive reaction, and may be closed a sale versus triggered negative reaction and caused a hang exactly in addition companies are also using various voice based technologies to educate and train their sales teams as Ron mentioned where do these phone calls go. They just go into the abyss. But now with AI technologies they're actually being able to be used, and they also can help these voice based technologies can also be used to help offer guidance to new employees as well. In addition to training. So by using natural language, modes of interaction businesses are creating more custom training tools with more accurate scenarios and situations companies can use real life examples from these previous interactions that they had both positive interactions as well as negative interactions. And then let sales associates use this information for training and within their training systems are also able to monitor answers that sales. Agents provide and it can provide immediate suggestions on how to handle certain situations. What they should and shouldn't say how to up, sell and various other suggestions, and this can all be handled in a training environment. So that they're not actually hurting potential sales. This data can also be compared to various data from other sales reps. So they can figure out what's the average time to close. How can they track improvements over time? And how can they help make everybody a more efficient sales agent. That's part of the other companies really wanted to get the maximum out of their sales teams. I mean sales teams are revenue generating they do those to be cost centers are supposed to be you really can think of a return investment for every dollar that just bidding on the salesperson. What's their return? So you know, companies are looking to get more value from their current sales teams. They're finding that these tools can help augment the skills of these current employees. So it's a lot better to take your existing sales staff and make them more efficient than trying to constantly weed out the bad. Layers and trying to get new ones. And then find out that it's always the same thing. It's the eighty twenty rule. It's like the twenty percent generate eighty percent of the deal. Just how it is. Right. So what we have discusses like various ways that we see is helping improve sales. But also, you know, we see obviously would love to hear from you as well. Like, what are you? How are you using your sales organization, but I think some things that we talk about here with sales is also can help but things like the CRM process. So we know this from first hand experience you have to keep track of all your information and sales people just only doing that they like to spend their time selling because that's where they make their money. They don't make money putting things into CRM systems. They don't make money sending out emails, even though the half to so marketing automation sales on national all that stuff is going as well. As a matter of fact, that's one of the biggest categories of research that we have is the whole sales and marketing industry vertical. So there are tools out there that'll help make the serum system smarter. Automatically collect information on the client automatically put data into it. You say something I'm listening to you. I'm gonna autumn out put that stuff into the system without me, caring about it. And. Also, a lot of other aspects of sales on nation like the follow ups and all that sort of stuff. We see all that going the way right? It really takes away the responsibility and onus of that one particular sales agent to be entering all this information, which can take up a lot of valuable time throughout the day and gets them away from selling which is their main job and what the companies hired them for him. What they really need to be doing. So we've seen that. It's just provided a lot of officiency helped with cost savings. I think it helps make people happier and more productive in their jobs as well listeners. We hope that you've enjoyed this podcast. And that we've provided some insights into how is being used in sales. This podcast is part of our AI use case series. There's others in this series that you may wanna listen to and we'll make sure to link them in the show notes. Thanks for listening. And we'll catch you at the next podcast. And that's a wrap for today to download this episode. Find additional episodes transcripts subscribe to our newsletter and more, please. Visit our website at cognreznick dot com. Join the discussion in between podcasts on the AI today. Facebook group and make sure to join the cognitive Facebook page for updates on this and future podcasts. Also subscribe to our podcast in itunes, Google play. And elsewhere to get notified a future episodes want to support this podcast and get your message out to our listeners than become a sponsor, we offer significant benefits for today sponsors, including promotion in the podcast and landing page and opportunity to be a guest on the today show for more information on sponsorship, visit the cog delivered a website and click on the podcast link this sound recording. And its contents is copyright by cog. Melissa all rights reserved music by Matsu, grab us as always thanks for listening to a today ammo catchy at the next podcast.
26. Lessons and Confessions of a High-Achiever
"Welcome to the speed of light show it podcast for busy professionals who have at all I'm your host now neat. Man Professional Life Success Coach Speaker and. Join me each week as we break down common issues faced by achievers and provide you with tools and techniques on how to overcome them yourself. The speed of light show is all about taking you from feeling stuck to being unstoppable. I'm here to get you out of the rat race and create a life you frigging love. So. Let's get started. Hello, everyone, and welcome to another episode of the speed of light show as always I'm your host. And today. I'm bringing you kind of a special episode. So this week was my birthday. I turn thirty four this week and I was reflecting on my last year and just had a lot of. Profound. Reflections on some lessons that I learned some of the things that I would do differently and. Overall. Just how much of grown as a person? It was amazing just to sit on the Patio Harvard Journal and religious think about some of that stuff. So wanted to bring you this episode because I know you all my fellow high achievers and you might be going through some of these things. So I WANNA talk to you about some confessions that have as a high achiever. But also some of the lessons that I have learned in my last year and the last few years really. So let's dive right in. The last year. So in my thirty third year, I. Felt like was a big big year of self discovery. If you ask ten years ago or heck if you'd asked me like five years ago if I would be into any of this, what the heck is self discovery, what is knowing yourself from the inside L. I, would've just said, that was a bunch of crap and I know myself very well because I was going through life going through all of these motions thinking I just had it altogether I. Knew Myself. So well, I had a good head by shoulders. I was pushing forward knowing exactly what I wanted knowing what I stood for and all of that. But this past year was very different. I'd say in general my thirties have just been amazing and have been some of my favorite years. But thirty three was very interesting because it was the year I feel like I really opened my eyes I became. The more confident version of myself. I became more bold in the sense that I really knew what I wanted and more importantly I knew what? I. Didn't want anymore I knew what I was it. Okay. Dealing with any more people I was in. Okay. Dealing with situations I wasn't okay dealing with and the types of environments that I wanted to be an instead I learned how to say no and I really learned how to love deeper. Loved myself deeper love those around me deeper and keep my circle nice and tight. I. Also, interestingly enough learned how to lean into fear because I used to be so afraid of the unknown I used to be so afraid of things I don't know I used to feel so insecure if I didn't have an answer if I didn't know how to get somewhere from point a to point B, I would feel stupid I would just be so afraid to ask all of these things on a subconscious level I was. Running away from things, I was afraid of that were unknown to me that were uncertain. Instead I learned how to lean into it. I learnt that link into the fear and the unknown is where your greatest transformations happen when it feels really really uncomfortable. That's when you're going to grow the most. So. Like I said, thirty three was probably one of my most transformative years today I just learned so much about myself. It's so interesting because it was like getting to note this new person. I think in my thirties I was changing and growing. So much as a person just going through all these motions I realized that you know law might not be for me and I wanted to serve people on a deeper level I got into coaching. I got certified I started exploring a whole new world. I got familiar with online marketing and sales, and all of these things just literally simultaneously growing to different careers At it was just interesting for me to learn that I was capable of doing these things. So I had grown so much as a person but because I was so busy going through the motions as we all are right. It's always one thing. Then the next thing that the next thing because there isn't enough time to get it all done, which we're going to touch on but I was just running running running through life I was running to the next thing trend. Chuckle the boxes trying to get all the stuff done. Be like this model boyer this model girlfriend is modeled daughter like everything I was just trying to be the best I could at everything but I was burning l you know I was doing too much taking on too much burning out. So I kind of spent this past year, really getting to know the prisoner had become and it was really this reintroduction into myself. Because I used to be programmed to think that I had to be so strong altogether a head to toe the line had to do what was expected of me, and I was always just chasing this late at the end of the tunnel I was hoping to find like success and happiness and the like I made it feeling but I was just so brainwashed by these expectations of me I was so brainwashed by climbing the corporate ladder or being in the rat race and always just trying to get a promotion taking on way too much I stress had become such a regular part of my life. In fact, I would like Brag about how busy I was you know Factor you have no time to do anything else like how ridiculous is it? What a joke because you're almost saying I'm so busy and you're talking you start with that. You know somebody asks you how you doing. Oh, I've just been so busy how ridiculous it's almost like saying that your life is more important than there is you have more important things to do than other people but really. You're the fool you're the full for not having enough time to to invest into yourself and things that really matter. So. This past euros really getting to know this person does become shutting that that. Persona shedding the old layer of myself and religious stepping into what I knew I needed. So is a very exploratory year for me because I learned about this new person and I gave myself permission to continue to develop. I. Gave Myself permission to really go deeper. I gave myself compassion when I failed and I didn't really reach the expectations ahead of myself. So it was really interesting in the past year to realize that the person I was on the outside was really just a fraction of the real me. It was just a fraction of what I was on the inside and how dynamic of person I was and all of the different things that had to offer all of the things I had to share with the world you know. So. Part of the confessions is the fact that. I finally realized this person that was being. I. Realized that I was almost playing this role trying to be this high achiever trying to be this person that is so important and so busy in my work is so important and. It was. Ridiculous that I was brainwashed for. So long thinking that that was the only way for me to achieve success that was the only way for me to have some respect for myself and in the eyes of others that was the only way for me to really reach higher levels. And I needed something to prove to other people and I needs to prove to myself. So. I just stayed with my blinders on fixated on my job by career the money. The achievements. And never really thought about myself. I never thought about how I was behaving the way. I was treating myself the way I was talking to myself the pain that was going through deep inside the frustrations Wia was always being so short with everybody. Why I was so unhappy deep inside and that's a part of my confession today is to say that that was me I was actually living that life for. I was suppressing what I needed I didn't want to focus on. The next. Level of myself myself two point. Oh I did it what to focus on any of that didn't even want to admit that anything was wrong in my life. So thirty three in that way was very profound because that's the year I allowed myself to focus on the inside. I allowed myself to open my eyes and really face all the hard stuff that I was facing. I. Allowed myself to let go of the. The concept that my world all needs to be just about work and the hustle, and that I can slow down and I can really just appreciate everything around including myself. So, here are three key lessons that I learned being this high achiever, the Goco person, but also finding my way through life. and. I want to share them with you in hopes that you resonate with this or that you'll also learn something about yourself. So the first most important thing that I learned was really. The profound effects at the importance of meditation and slowing. down. Again if you has, there's a while ago a few years ago I would say, yeah, maybe it works for some people but it's not for me like all of this meditation woo stuff like it's just not for me I don't know how to slow down and I don't need it. Right, I would always just think i. don't need it. In fact actually meditation a lot of reminded me of being a child when. I went to a religious school and we were encouraged to pray and I associated meditation with prayer and associated that with this pressure to be more religious and confined into this box. So I didn't I was resistant meditation. Started opening my eyes to it a few years ago I realize that it was really effective, but I was so obsessed with controlling everything. In fact, I would like ask people what I'm supposed to think about while I'm meditating, how do you shut down? What are you supposed to think about I didn't even realize that there was. A level that you can reach you don't need to think or your brain can just shut down and just be. In my mind I was consciously so aware that I was meditating I'm trying to picture what? Gurus and online forums are saying to picture. I learned that my brain would run a mile a minute. Let it. It could run without rest if I allowed to do that but the rest and recuperation is what I need it. That's what I needed to have things come together and stop this hustle in my mind. It was so frustrating to deal with this overwhelm to deal with my mind racing all the time with ideas with with our obligations responsibilities, you name it. So, I started meditating regular leave I would fall off sometimes times of really high stress where I thought I had no quote unquote time, which is funny because that's probably when I needed at the most. But I gave myself permission to come back to it whenever necessary I would come back to a meditation practice. I just it's so interesting because I would have never thought this was me but as I got into regular meditation practice. I found this stress melting off of me. I literally felt like by shoulders could relax I. Felt like I could breathe I felt like I had space in my mind. Felt like I could sleep without being INC anxiety induced felt like I can have more clear conversations that was less foggy. I could understand and empathize with people better because I wasn't just obsessed with everything going on life I literally just slowed down and it was so profound one of. I'd say the most amazing things that ever happened to be one of the most. What of the best things you could probably invest into yourself is taking this time even if it's ten minutes, a day is an meditating in whatever way you need, whatever type of meditation works for you. So I would highly highly recommend that there's ups that you can get. There's walking meditations lying down meditations. There's soft sounds like so many things that help your brain just to Kinda slow down and relax, and honestly that makes space for you to do even more creative things for you to accomplish even more. because. You are not being held down by this weight. And stress and pressure. So that was my first key learning of the last year. Second was that there's always going to be too much to do. Always. So life is busy right period life is way too busy and it can be as busy as we WANNA make it. We take on so much especially in this day and age we are. So obsessed with work and what's next and achieving more and getting higher levels and promotions and more money and more responsibilities. We also want to balance that with working out, working on ourselves, cooking our wellbeing, our fitness, and then we have relationships that we need to invest our energy in time and love into, and then we've got family that comes with its own obligations and responsibilities, and then if there's any time left over, we want to actually be able to enjoy our lives. We Wanna go on an adventure we WANNA travel. You want to spend time with friends. We want to have a glass of wine we just want to relax like. That's crazy. There's so much happening and there's so much that we take on. And say that we need to get this done. So. For a lot of people. A lot of their responsibilities end up falling in this work bucket, which comes with its own stressors. There's a lot of. Pressure that comes with work. But if you're always thinking that there's too much to do there will always be too much to do. The thing is you don't need to put so much pressure on yourself to get it all done. Right because what happens is when there's so much to do most likely some things are gonNA fall off you're either go into overwhelm mode you're going to go into analysis paralysis you're you're going to end up not doing certain things just because time doesn't allow for it. And I found myself going through that I would freeze. I wouldn't be able to think I. wouldn't be able to get things done I wouldn't be able to be creative and. A lot of parts of my life started suffering because of it, my fitness started suffering sometimes my relationship suffered sometimes my coaching practice my business suffered just because I was taking on way too much thinking I can do it all because you know I'm superwoman. Why wouldn't I be able to do it all I'm strong. I'm confident I'm this I'm that. But. I didn't need to I didn't need to actually do it all by myself. So I learned to give myself space. I loud myself to lean on people that that could help. Allowed myself to work through some of the pressure and learned that I didn't need to even get all of those things done. A lot of stuff was just make do. Keep busy types of tasks. So. I started looking at my to do list all of the different buckets of my life in different ways. I dedicated myself. Certain time would go towards work but certain time needed to go towards taking care of myself. Me Putting more energy into my relationships in caring for people around me me allowing myself to lean on them emotionally mentally whenever needed and allowing other people to help take care of me as well and not always being the strong one. So that is something I. Think a lot of people do suffer with the have a lot of people come in tell me all of the responsibilities they have in their life and they don't see a way out they just don't see how that's ever GonNa. Change because in their mind, they really do believe that only they can resolve these issues. And? That's just simply not true. So I invite you to look at all of the things that are adding pressure to your life, all of the things that you need to do. And look be honest with yourself and see what actually can be crossed off. See what actually can be delegated. See that things can wait until tomorrow or next month or next year, and don't allow your to do list to spiral out of control, add more pressure in your life, and that's one thing that. I learned that has helped me profoundly is to really be honest with myself. When I look at all the things I need to do prioritize what I actually need to get done and not let the pressure get to me what I find is when I feel pressured and there's so many things going on end up doing nothing well, 'cause I'm taking on way too much and then I'm frustrated every aspect because I'm not working out enough I'm not talking about friends enough I'm not. You know there's work project CETERA suffering or I'm not marketing my business enough. There's just so many things. And I realized that language has always like I'm not doing this enough or I'm not doing that there is enough time was always looking at the negative if you flip that around and try to see what there is time for the things you want to do the things that actually bring you joy. It becomes so much easier to knock stuff off your to do list. The last thing that I wanNA share with you that I learned in this past year is that you cannot control everything. This you know me with a tough one because. In my life I've always felt this need to control situations. and. I had to realize that things do not always go the way that you want no matter how much you plan no matter how much you prepare there's just some things that are not in your control. Things can go sideways as they always do and you need to be resilient you need to be able to. Pivot when things change you need to be okay with it and not not hold onto something that you want so hard it's like the metaphor is when you're holding you want something so bad it's like holding signed in your hand and the tighter you squeeze out of the more that falls out and then eventually you're left with nothing because you're holding onto that control so much. So having to let go of control was. One of the more difficult things that I had to realize needed to be done in fact that didn't come to fruition. Until the last couple of months I realized I was more stress than I've ever been. So many things that are happening at once life felt like it was spiraling out of control and I didn't know what to do. I was reaching out always looking for some sort of solution outside of myself. I was always looking for an answer, some sort of validation that I was doing on the right track doing the right things but. At the end of the day, the result was the same because. Things were not getting done the way I wanted and I was getting frustrated upset sad angry. All of these things and I realized because I'm trying to control every aspect of what's going on in just simply cannot do that. Over, the last few months I've had to explore this more and more and more have the right conversations with myself and with those around me people that I trust and realize that it's when you let go. When you stop feeling the need to control is when things happen for you. We all have the answers within ourselves. We all are capable. We are very strong and accomplished and we. Know where we need to get and we will get there. The Path does show itself. Then the journey is what needs to be enjoyed, and that's something that took me a very long time to understand on a deeper level is that I need to let go of my need to try to control everything you cannot save everyone and everything I do not need to be everything to everybody do not need to be the person that is going to. Fix It for everyone around me. I need to I, work myself and let go of my need. My perception that others need me to fix everything for them, and that's a part of the same control that I just talked about. So look at yourself and in your life where you feel like you're trying to control too many variables to many situations to relationships of what is it that you want from that what? What is the fear? If you let go of control? What the fear that you'll be dealing with and what can you do to offset it? So take an honest look at your life and allow yourself to let go. Allow yourself to melt off some of that control and just see how it feels I invite you to do this for the. Try It on for size for the next month or two, and just see what it feels like to genuinely let go of that need to control. So those are the three lessons I wanted to bring to you guys today what I learned in my thirty third year that gave me the most I opening experience that has allowed me to step into this New Year on an invited as a new journey and something. So beautiful that I'm so excited for because this whole year for me is going to be about letting go it's going to be about just allowing myself to be. It's going to be about giving myself permission to make mistakes and learn and continue to grow in this way, and I'm just so so so excited for everything that's to come because I've got huge plans for myself for my business for my life and. I can't wait for it all to work out and fall into place in whatever way it needs to. So again, thank you so much for joining me on this special birthday episode. I really hope you guys enjoyed these lessons. Let me know if there is something that you are currently dealing with some of the lessons that you've learned in recent years I would love to hear it again, you can reach me on my social media channels. I hang out on Lincoln in an instagram quite a bit Go to my website www dot daphne man dot com, and if you want to work together and learn how to break through your. Own Barriers and reached that deeper level within yourself. So then you can spearhead your life the way you want it to go working from the inside L. Fighting that purpose being driven by and creating a life that you love and get in touch because this is what I do and I want it for you. So badly get in touch with me, email me in front of me Manda. Calmer, just go to my website and you'll find all the information there. Thank you so much for joining me. I had a great time I. Hope You did too and I'll catch you next week another episode of the speed of light show by.
Episode 102: Marketing With No Budget
"They won't catch why from the chicken wing capital of the World Buffalo New York. You're listening to the marketing above. All podcast your source for all things well. Marketing and total world domination a nation. This is marketing above all. And this is your host Michael. Hey there and welcome to episode one zero. Today's topic is this marketing with limited to the no budget. So the first question is is this act scholley possible and I'm GonNa give you a little bit of a loaded answer but I'll give you the reasons why behind that answer so the answer really is it depends on your individual individual business in your situation so what I mean by that is if you're a complete startup and or a brand new business business the answer is can you actually grow business. With no money. Traditionally speaking the answer is no like there is no more if you build it and they will come unless you have like in insane concept and you're getting lots of free pr or it's an existing franchise has brand power but even then them in there still marketing. That is taking place place so startups in particular in new businesses. And if you're opening up a new restaurant or a new storefront or something like that you have have to make sure that you're investing in marketing. Where you getting the marketing for your products? Where you're getting the money? Rather I guess I got marketing in my brain where you getting the money for the lease in the insurance and the Senate the mistake that I see business owners making time and time again is that they assume that just because they're opening up a business that it's going to just open the floodgates and would often ends up happening happening. is they invest a sizeable portion. If not all of the money and resources they have in launching the business and then when I said what are you investing in terms of marketing. What's your marketing plan? What's your marketing? Mix Look like how are you going to get this thing enrolling and the answer is insanely spotty. Well I mean we were GonNa Kinda see how things go and see if we need to keep an investing in and kind of check things out a little bit and that's just not the answer that gives me a warm and Fussy not a good thing to launch a business and not have any resources left or available for marketing. Have there been businesses that have succeeded without any investment in marketing. Sure I mean it. It definitely happens and definitely can continue to happen but those businesses are few and far between so the first piece of my answer is if you are a startup. The answer is traditionally going to be. No if you're a brand new business you need to be investing marketing to get your name out there. You need to be building building systems to drive customers on a regular basis. You need to have your follow up systems and all of that stuff is marketing. You can't just fake it until you make it on the flip side of things if you haven't established business business with an established customer base and you're looking to take it to the next level you don't necessarily have to invest substantially in marketing to see growth now again my asterix to this is the best way to grow is to invest in marketing plain and simple and that's the whole intention behind this podcast marketing above all else. Your marketing marketing needs to come first needs to come before sales operations your product your everything but if you have a regular flow of customers and you've got enough cash flow. That's at least sustaining the business. You're taking a profit. You're taking a salary and life is pretty good and then you're like okay. How do I get to the next level? I throw a bunch of money at marketing. Take a line of credit or loan for example and then leverage that to grow or can I do it a little. Bit More I guess creatively. So that's the piece where I could say. There are lots of opportunities to grow your your business without throwing lots of money so I did an episode on guerrilla marketing. So make sure you listen to that. And the essence of guerrilla marketing thing is time energy imagination outside the box ideas as opposed to investing lots of marketing dollars and often. When you're looking to go to the next level what I like to do is I will size up the existing status of the business and when I do a little bit of a marketing audit I always find assets that are sitting there that have not been leveraged old customers lost customers? His old leads a lost leads content assets. I often find things that were created or half created that we're never leveraged. I often find find that you don't still have a reliable way to get in scale the business from a customer standpoint. So there's a lot of those those types of things that you can do. That don't cost anything else. You should go back to your lost customers and aimed reengaged them. You should do reactivation reactivation campaigns to lost customers existing customers to see what else can you do upsell campaigns. You can go back to those. Lost leads lost opportunities in start to warm them up with the reactivation campaign that cost. Disclose to nothing. You could look at doing some grassroots. Pr and seeing if you could come up with a low cost appear stunt or guerrilla marketing stunt for example and do something outside the box. You Could News Jack which which is finding stories and then taking the story tweaking in and kind of making your own. And there's a lot of freeways to grow your business Leveraging facebook groups posting content getting free Google organic traffic so not all. These things cost lots of the money. But it's more time and the time piece is among the most complicated because it really comes down to are. Are you the right person. Do you have a team. You need a team like there's a lot more to the the piece of just can you and should you throw throw more investment dollars and marketing. But you can surely continue to grow a business without without throwing lots of marketing dollars. But I would caution you if you're a star it up there is often this. START UP VIBE. I been mentality and the word I hear all the time is we're going to bootstrap this more power to you. But in interviewing hundreds and hundreds of business owners that have went out of business or bankrupt they often tried to bootstrap this way too you much. I personally have not seen that many successful companies that have bootstrap their way to success. Assess again there are. I'm sure there plenty of them. I'm just telling you that in my experience the way that I found a girl company. Is You invest in more more marketing. You don't grow a company by cutting budgets cutting people cutting expenses you grow a company by investing and marketing and sales. You grow the top line while you're continuing to improve the operations that deliveries etc.. So if I go back to the initial the question of can you market your business a little to no money you surely can. If you've gotten existing base but even from there I encourage you go back to and look at those hidden marketing assets on the flip side. If you're a startup or brand new business I would not suggest having a marketing budget of zero. Hope this helpful for you. Thank you as always for tuning in have a wonderful rest of your day to day Michael. Tasmania signing off. Good morning good afternoon and good night. I'll see you back here tomorrow. Thank you thank you for listening to this episode of marketing. Above all we now get out there make a change and take some action and hey don't forget to leave a five star review until all your friends ends. This is the greatest marketing podcast ever ever. If we look forward to seeing you here tomorrow.
EP 025 The 7 Step Formula For Sales
"What seven steps should you focus on to make sales? Listen to find out? Okay, here's the question. How are we Dark Horse, you know the ones everyone is betting against the ones that don't expect to win place or even show on the track and they'll even laugh on us when we talk about trying how do we show the world our greatness and Triumph off? Well, that's the question and this podcast will give you the answers. This is the Dark Horse entrepreneur in my name is Tracey bregman and push it out. Hello, my Dark Horse friends and family. Welcome back to your daily dose of change my life and 15 minutes or less learning. I'm your Dark Horse host Tracey bregman. And you said yep infinitely more importantly you are a driven entrepreneur a business owner or taking steps to be one very soon. Either way you are here because you are ready to start restart Kickstart or just start leveling up with some great marketing personal or business tips and results in order to build that beautiful business of yours into the Empire at absolutely deserves to be hitting you with yet another daily dose of the dark daily Daily Success episode as a dark horse entrepreneur as we dive deep into successful with actionable advice steps and tips designed to help you level up your game because as we already know when it comes to success, there are no real short cuts across For those little steps we take every day towards our goal. Well, you guys I don't sure if you know it but I'll just go ahead and told you I like black guys that sell I like marketing people. Well, let me let me let me clarify. I don't like all marketing people right? I mean there are some guys out there. Just well annoying jerks, right? You've seen them, right and they're not just the guys right. So let's set it right. There's there's marketing which is you know, that kind of out of the box of fun stuff you get to make yourself and and you're willing to be yeah, you're willing to be yourself and willing to be different and be not like the others and you have fun doing and it works for you and your nice because during all of this you're enjoying the process and you're kind of having a good time. Then there's those. Well, I don't know it's lazy dead. Right, you just kind of get I need a shower just you know talking to him the black hat kind of marketing and sales and business folks and I guess they're in all avenues of life right off. But we're talking about business in on this show. Right? So those sleeves balls up there. They will do anything for that Almighty dollar. I am not in any way shape or form a fan of those those those guys gals or their crap tactics. I prefer and a coach others to bring the value bring the value of please walk right and and be a little different be a little out of the box in the process have some fun. I really think that works so much better. So as I learned more and more about customers and sales and marketing and I know I'm a geek I like I like learning this this stuff right? I tried share it with those engaged with Monday. I shared with you the the stages of the customer Journey today want to talk to you about about the seven ways to you will sell a customer now now mind you you're going to notice a few synergies here. And so it's kind of a cool Melting Pot of the two but let's go through this page. Number one. Let's pull the wheat from the chaff right AKA separate those suspects from the prospects sex specs. Yeah. Those are those those Tire kickers those freebie sneakers. They're nice folks, right? They're willing to chat you up and they like your content they like your freebies and they probably even think that your product is pretty darn awesome not showing off. It right. Maybe it's not the right time for them. Maybe maybe they can't afford. It could be anything. I mean, they're almost we're always going to have prospects. It's you know, maybe we're suspects a lot of times you think about it and that could be a sad fact of being you know on the inside of the selling process. But if you see someone else is a is a suspect move on I just forget about it. Don't burn any midnight oil on those suspects get to your prospect and get to your prospect that's ready to buy off today. That should be your focus. That should be your laser focus focus on that. Today's buyer that buyer that's ready to buy today. And then tomorrow focus on that part is ready to buy tomorrow wrong. Number two is build trust. This is always this is always been and always will be a very very important factor some might say it's even dead. More important today with all those people that are out there filling up our social media feeds with get this amazing product for $27. I saw one the other day. It was $7 off advertised as we start seeing like every third, you know post on Facebook right get out there walk your talk build that trust and they will do business with you get to your prospect and build that trust for them or with them for when they're ready to buy number three. Now, you've got the job prospect identify their needs accurately. Please stop just sitting in a room by yourself trying to figure out your customers needs, right? Yeah. That's a really you you're trying to build that presents. Okay. You got that Prospect. He's right and you're and you're going to have that chat with him in two days. And I said you sit down the room Ball by yourself to figure out the presentation along. Your customer needs are we really so arrogant to think that we all know what our customer needs? Okay. So maybe you did have a focus group. All right, you've done a lot of research to build your confidence in your opinion of what you think your customer needs, but you still have to remember one thing your prospect did not read that research your prospect did not participate in that focus group. So take the time and ask find out what your customer your prospect really wants that often improve the odds of you getting that sale probably about about tenfold maybe a hundred fold 419 what they need accurately present the solution. Oh, okay. Now, you're not good, you know. Oh, well, that's what you need. Well guess what? I have the perfect solution. Now you tell them how you're going to fix that problem boom mic drop dead. Wait a minute. We know what comes next right you you present Your solution and they hit you with. Yeah, the questions aka the objections and that's where we get to number five overcome the objections. Yeah, they're coming. You know, they're coming. Don't hide from them. Don't try to duck and Dodge them right stand up with open arms and welcomed the objections the more questions you answer the more confidence and trust that you're going to still into your prospect about your ability to serve their needs to talk about that. Think about that think about this for a second. We've seen infomercials. I mean God, they've been around forever, but we've all seen them and if you have it you might want to go check one out right? I think about all those infomercials that are out there and if you watch one or if you think about when you've watched you'll note that the really the entirety of the commercial Is about handling an objection one objection after another after another and then what do they do to kind of rotate back through those objections again, and then go through them over and over and over again, maybe sometimes with a slightly different angle, but they hit it over and over and over again until you pick up the phone and place that order. Oh you get online and you place a door number six ask them to buy right? And what happens at the end of the commercial cold now, right Dial 1-800 get my take my money right number six is a system to buy sometimes lazy. I mean, I've been victim of this people forget to ask for the sale. They forget about it right now with potentially worst right is they asked them to buy too soon? Here's a great tactic. You might want to try get to the point where your prospect is asking you. Of them. So this the solution that you have right cuz if you know their their pain points so well and you've got that perfect solution and you're answering those objections wage going to look at you and say take my money please right? Can we just do this? You just confirm it and you sell it to him and the number seven this one really kind of Loops right back to the way we talked about on Monday sales and referrals, right? We talked about this on episode 21 the customer Journey. So you need to separate the suspects from the prospects. You need to be build trust with your prospects. You need to identify their needs accurately. Then you present Your solution you overcome their objections you ask them to buy and you get sales and referrals. I put it all together in a repeatable system and you're not not a Salesman, but rather your person going out there delivering value and solving other p Those problems they're going to like you right they're gonna love you. They're they're making sales. Your business is growing who would be mad about that long lazy gentleman. That's what it's all about. You're making sales their problems are getting solved. Your business is growing. Oh good at getting you better than that. Now, here's another cool thing you could compress all this down into a direct mail piece an email or yeah, even a website. Could it be that simple? Yeah sure is stop and pay attention to get up get revved up get rocking because you know what you can do this. All right, let's gentleman. That's been it for this week. All five daily episodes dropped out for you. Tell me what you think should be an email over it Tracy at Dark Horse cooling, Let me know your thoughts wage. Appreciate your feedback. And if you have any questions, you'd like me to pop in here and share some matches with you about again Tracy at Dark Horse schooling and I will get to them with that. I leave you as I always do successfully and take action. Thank you for listening to the Dark Horse entrepreneur podcast. Thanks for tuning in Victor. Sounded www.horoscope.com. All right, my name is Tracey bregman.
Episode 612 How To Help Marketing Build A Bridge To Better Sales?
"Everyone agrees taken makes everything better than marketing. This is the bacon podcast. You'll learn to enjoy your marketing make your family even that Market online marketing social media tips and tell them know to help you bring more bacon home master of marketing Sizzle. Brian Basilico. This is the bacon podcast. Welcome everybody. I'm your host Brian Basilico. And this is the podcast where you learn to make your business Sizzle online. So are you ready to fry up some new business? Hey peeps. So most of you know, we got a new dog. Her name is Leyland bush is a 1112 month old puppy. Now, we've adopted a lot of dogs over the years. But this is the first time we've had a puppy in a while and one of the things that I forgot about is puppies require a lot of treats, if you have treats you can train them to do certain things one of the things I've trained Leila to do wage. Is to sit at every crosswalk that way when a car comes she doesn't get hit so she has gotten so good every time she sits at a crosswalk she turns around and looks at me and says check where is the tree but I'm going to kind of blend this into another topic which is how to help marketing build a bridge to better sales rep by basically giving treat. So one of the things about these treats is we have lots of different kinds of treats for different things. I have certain treats that I use would not take her on our walks. We have different treats when she goes outside and goes potty. We even have a different treat that one of my friends gave me she came over with a gift bag and in it included wage toy and some bacon bits. Yes bacon there the Beggin Strips but little pieces and we actually use those to get her upstairs and get her ready wage. Go to bed in her crate. That's where she sleeps cuz we can't trust her to be running around the house in the middle of the night. So one of the differences with these treats is the packaging. Most every kind of food has some kind of way to seal it and there are two different kinds of ceiling mechanisms that I found with these treats with your traditional Ziploc, you know where you you've got a basically squeeze it and it's kind of very precise. You have to make sure that one in fits in the other and then you squeeze it all the way across and those drive me crazy. Sometimes you cut the top of the package and you end up cutting off the ziplock. Then you have no way of locking it. But the second kind of treat came with a velcro inside of it off now velcro allows you to open it a lot quicker and does it require that Precision to close it back up. It may not keep it as fresh, but it's so much easier to work with And that's essentially what I want to talk about is is your marketing. So precise that it's more like the ziplock where you have to align everything and get it closed perfectly or is it more like the velcro which allows you to create a proximity effect. Now on proximity effect is something that happens with a microphone if I turn my head further away, I sound farther away. But if I move myself closer to my mic I get this boom your sound so that's what proximity effect does the mic off except the sound no matter where I'm at, but the closer I am to it the boom. You're it sounds it's a same thing with marketing messages marketing message is matter, but don't confuse marketing messages with sales messages marketing is more of a one-to-many activity. It's something wrong. You can talk to a wide variety of people where sales tends to be a one-to-one activity where your sales person is talking directly to a customer the big difference between the marketing and sales is the personal relationships know like and Trust has advantages over who dad's right? So if somebody sees your marketing message and knows the person sending it it has a different kind of proximity effect than it does. If you're trying to send a message out to everybody who doesn't know you Creative Marketing creates attention and awareness and it has that kind of proximity effect, especially when there's a relationship attached to it. In marketing, I tend to look at things from three different perspectives. Number one awareness posts. Hey, we're here educational posts. This is what product is or services and this is what it does or how it works sales posts. This is something you bought something and this is what you need to know next in order to be more successful with it. So awareness can create sales through proximity people may see your marketing for a particular project that they may not need or want at the time. But if they know the person associated with that it may create enough awareness to remind them that hey, you know, I need to order some supplies or you know, I'm really interested in something else and I need to contact the salesperson to learn more about this new product or this Thursday. Service or something that's been on my mind. So that's what good marketing can do it can create a proximity effect to a relationship that your sales person has with somebody else home. So when it comes to your marketing, there are three components that you have to think about. The first one is frequency. How often do you get messages out? Many people I know in the B2B space tend to do something like a monthly blog post or a monthly e-newsletter. That means that they're only communicating with their audience twelve times a year. If you did something weekly that would be 52 times a year. If you did it three times a week. That would be a hundred and fifty times a year. That's number one. How often do you put messages out number two is consistency people get used to seeing things on a regular basis and then they start to expect it. You've probably seen these kinds of posts about Taco Tuesday Humpday, right and throwbackthursday them as the messages get people to pay attention because they expect them. They see them all the time. What are you doing in your business in your marketing to create some kind wage? Consistency where people start to look for your messages. The last piece of this is connectivity the more people in your company who have the message associated with them and their profiles on social media the more people see it. It amplifies the value. For example, I work with one business that has a thousand people that like their business page, but they have ten people in their business that have at least 500 connections off. So if we post something on a business page, it looks like an advertisement, but if we post something on somebody's personal profile or they shared that message, it looks like an endorsement or an educational piece and we go from having a thousand potential people seeing it to 5,000 potential p Well, seeing it plus that thousand so now all of a sudden it's Amplified to six times what it originally was. So think of a business page as an ad and think of a profile as advice, that's the difference between sharing content between a business page a personal profile and getting your people to be consistent to use that frequency and use their connectivity will help amplify your messages off and lead to more sales. So the final thoughts I want to leave you with our this number one. Keep your marketing fresh in handy. I love it. When I can rip open that velcro grab those treats and take my dog on the walk. Secondly you want to make sure that you share them get people to pay attention and listen just like I'm trying to train my dog and finally trainee audience to listen more often. So I hope you found this interesting. If you have any questions, please email me at ask Brian at B2B. And by the way, if you haven't been to Amazon search Brian Basilico to find all of my books including the latest toilet paper math wage, which goes into this and much more detail. Well, that's it for today's bacon podcast. We hope you enjoyed it and learned something today. If you did wage, please go to iTunes and give us a review. We appreciate all your feedback and comments. If you have any questions go to ww.w bacon podcast.com forward slash questions, and we'll make sure we get those answered for you till next time keep sizzling.
Why Culture Plays Such an Important Part of ABM Advice from Jon Miller
"Hi It's Jamie progressive's number one number two employee leave a message at the Hey Jamie it's me Jamie this is your daily pep talk I know it's been rough going ever since people found out about cappella group mad harmony but you will bounce back I mean you're the guy always helping people find coverage options with the name your price tool it should be you giving me the pep talk now get out welcome everybody's time to grab your board catch your wave as we ride the sale they have the easiest time kind of pivoting here because they WanNa do the right thing for the sales team usually if Martinez a right so much for joining us every week we are featuring leaders in the sales and marketing world dot leaders authors speakers as much as we can doing people that are doing the hard work that are building the Marchetto has become the leader in that space and and now what you're doing with engage oh and really sort of building from the ground up a new platform that his account focus versus lead in contact and let's talk about how we're going to help you go after them sales usually really actually enjoys that conversation right the mistake marketers make will be as hey if you're talking to the marketing team or you're talking to the sales of sales development because I think they approach it differently if you're talking to the marketing team I think the reality is is mile and life looks good again glad things are back to normal I'm glad you're not worried about having to step outside and into the pavement really as usual we are doing sales orients around the account getting people to drive better integration with the sales organization isn't always easy and I'm sure that in your sales process you face some of that as well what are you doing Asian of marketing and sales tools very excited to have John Miller with us here today John thanks again so much for joining us as going that you thanks again that hopefully didn't build you up too much those pipelines with your host Mannheim saved man. Hey Paul how we doing I'm doing good today it's sunny today in southern California the rains have passed the sun has come ah the but honestly think about where you've been right you were instrumental in the growth of epiphany back in the day which which when it launched it was a bit ahead of its time is everything is a world where sales development actually needs to step up and be a little bit more strategic spent a little more time thinking about I'm very excited to have someone who is a celebrity of the B. Two B. Marketing World Ball like oftentimes people that are impressive and important but not not not a household name in instead of saying hey we have leads to follow up on our leads to pivot the conversation with sales and say we understand you WANNA go after counts you help me understand who those accounts Botox and selling the products and marketing the products that we're using it buying on a daily basis to learn what's working in terms of building and managing on closing sales pipelines and today we got a very very special he's especially larger companies you've got animosity between sales and marketing you've got marketing may have historically acted like the arts and Crafts Department and so getting people to Nisa Gadgil is going to be we'll talk
Sales Not Making Quota? Its Probably Your Fault Part 1 of 2
"Your sales team not making quota. It might not be their fault. It's probably yours so if you have a product that's often important problem in your market with valuable competitive differentiator and have successful customers who love your product and are getting a lot of value from it but you're having trouble achieving a repeatable sales model. The sales team regularly fails to make quota or hit. Their sales targets that i'm sorry to say product manager. It's probably your fault in this podcast episode and the next one. I'm i'm gonna give you four key steps. You can take to ensure it doesn't happen to you or if it's already happening to you that you can use to fix it. <music> this davis in you're listening to all the responsibility none of the authority in this podcast feature the best mental models tools techniques and secrets grits for product managers product marketers innovators founders. If you're trying to create value in the world delivering solutions to problems that need solving this podcast will give you insights and approaches which is to up your game accelerate your career and get more value to market faster. This is episode number three to zero bad go to market is the second most common way for a product to fail the first most common is to create a product that doesn't solve a problem anyone cares about but the second most communist to create a product does a good job of solving valuable problem but then failed to take it to market correctly and there are a lot of ways. This can go wrong as an example. Let me tell you a little story. When i started as the director of product management at my last company we had a lot of successful enthusiastic customers for our project management solution. The product works well although it was long in the tooth and we had a good lead pipeline but we had one big problem. The sales team was missing quota every quarter. That's not a recipe for long term success now. The sales engineers thought the problem luma's our story around agile and especially their ability to demo agile. Many of our successful customers were using our product in an agile environment but the product itself self didn't have many agile features and prospects always wanted to know how we did agile well given that i had a background with agile tools. They asked me to come in and help them out with their agile l. demo but when i drilled down i found out we really had a different problem. The big thing that was holding sales back was not around any of our features or lack act thereof rather. It was the way that we were selling in the way that we were demoing. We were focused on telling the prospects about us and our product not about how our product was going going to solve a relieve. The prospects pain you know sales is about your prospect. It's not really about you and your product. So why were my colleagues selling and demoing like that well it was all they knew until i got there. The only product knowledge they were getting from the product team was lists of features and functions and that clearly wasn't working well so over the next quarter. I helped sales fix their process by giving them better product knowledge but i wasn't telling them more about our product. What they needed was the story about how our products solved the problems of our prospects and how to tell that story. If you give sales the right information everyone can make quota so you know what frustrates a salesperson especially a good at one having what seems like it might be a good prospect and truly benefit from the product but not having the information to either validate that they're a good prospect or to pitch the solution correctly and if all they have a list of features. They're not going to be successful and that means. The company is not going to be successful. If your product team doesn't provide the right information asian to sales your sales people can't make quota. We know that features and functions are there to solve problems and those problems are what the prospects care about not specifically the features and functions asians so part of our job on the product team is not just to deliver the features but help marketing and sales understand how those features solve the prospects problems and just as a foreshadowing of things to come that doesn't mean we give them more information about the features. I think about minimum viable product knowledge set for for making quota. I'm going to go over four items that i consider the minimum product knowledge that marketing and sales teams require and this is information that the product organization has or should have and that your colleagues really need to be effective with the right information the right product knowledge marketing can create programs that pull the right prospects sales people can qualify these prospects prospects discover their problems in detail and position competitors out of the deal and sales engineers can create a demo that converts so these four items are the value proposition proposition. I'll talk more about all of these in more detail in a few minutes. The target segment is the second piece that's what the right prospects looked like and where they are are combined with the value prop and other information marketing can create programs that generate good sales leads on the sale side the sales people really need good qualifying qualifying and discovery questions these are the tools of sales team uses to make sure a prospect really would benefit from our solution and is worth pursuing in our sales funnel and then we also need to give them answers to key product related sales objections and general guidance on helping prospects understand the value solution provides. This includes not just information on how you do against competitors but also customer success stories now. I'm going to talk about the first two of these the value proposition and the target segment in this episode of the podcast the next episode episode three to one will cover the qualifying and discovery questions that we give to sales teams and the answers to the key product related sales objections now. Let's talk about the value proposition. This is the first key component in the product knowledge that we need to provide a sales and marketing the value proposition is a concise seis statement in two sentences of who the product is for the problem it solves how it solves the problem which is features and benefits and why it superior to alternatives both to competitors and to business as usual now i use the value proposition template from crossing the chasm the great book by geoffrey moore the template is and i'm going to have have to sort of help you through this as a template because i can't give you. I can't speak out the blanks but essentially it's the following. The product is a category remaining at fits into some category for a segment and you define what that segment is that provides benefits and you might also include some features in there unlike other offers in this category the product has or does differentiate so that's the basic structure and obviously as you fill in the blanks here you do some wordsmith. The let me give you an example. This is a pretty well known product and it really works well as an illustration of what a good value proposition can do because i think after you listen to this value <unk> proposition you'll know even more why this was such a successful product. The ipod is a digital music player. That's the category for everyone. Everyone who wants to listen to their own music that's the segment it can hold ten thousand of your own songs and play them in any order you want those are the features unlike other music players i it's simple and intuitive to use and it's connected to apple's itunes giving you instant access to millions of songs including the latest hits your favorite classics and everything in between and so that last sentence was the differentiator so when you do the value proposition you wanna capture the category into which product fits who the product is solving living a problem for the segment and the problem. It's also them which is the benefits and why it's better than the competitors. If you can do all that clearly not only do you have an excellent excellent basis for all the more detailed marking that the organization needs to do but you also have an excellent elevator pitch for your product. The value proposition has another benefit for you though it's it's really a litmus test if you can't create a good one it's an indicator that your product either isn't solving a meaningful problem for a segment or that. It can't be differentiated and and that's bad news for your product. The things that enabled products to win solving a market problem differentiating from competitors are really laid bare in the value proposition and if you you can't articulate them. How do you expect your sales person to be able to pitch it or your prospect even understand why they should pay their time or money for it. Now the second the critical piece of information that the product organization should provide the marketing and sales is the detailed market segment market segments to attack that is the people who have the problems. Your product solves along with specific qualifying questions and criteria to ensure that we're talking and marketing to the right people. If you think about the job of marketing marketing their goal is really to find people to buy your product marketing crates programs that create awareness interest desire and entice enticing prospects to take action like signing up for your lead magnet to get on your mailing list when prospects come in via this pipeline of marketing programs. They're handed over to sales who then continue the sales process. It's really important that marketing finds the right people in their lead generation activities now the fact is that marketing doesn't decide who to target defining the ideal customer in the segment is really product management's responsibility and i'll tell you why the definition of the ideal customer demographics characteristics to industries comes comes from the work that product management does we do the research to determine that there is a problem and that it can be solved. We also validate that there's enough people in the market who need the solution and who will buy it so this is all the information that goes into defining the target market for marketing to be effective product management needs to communicate all this market segment data to marketing sharing this knowledge with marketing is a fundamental step in a successful sales enablement program and you'd be surprised or maybe not how often product management does not communicate this information into marketing effectively and so marketing does its best to find who they think might be a good prospect but without the knowledge that product management has their inevitably going to be off often far enough that the leads are not good so for example imagine. Your product is a project management tool. You're going to hear about this project management to a lot in this episode because i'm pretty familiar with that space now. This tool has a lot of familiar project management features and that's what marketing knows if i don't give them any other information so they market your product project nick managers of all types which makes sense. They're not marketing to non project managers but it turns out that not all project managers need a tool like yours in fact many of them only need a much simpler and cheaper tool. Do you want that lower price segment in your lead pipeline. No you do not but of marketing only knows project management. That's what you're likely to get so. There's a lot of ways to improve yourself performance but step one is really improving your lead quality and step one of improving. Your quality is making sure that marketing knows who look for and that's up to product management so here's some things you can do to help marketing fine and collect the ideal prospects for your sales team but the first thing to do is to assess if you if if product management is giving marketing the market segment information they need and this can include things like their demographics like mid sized company number projects ex- types of projects. How many project managers again this is for the project management tool example. Your product will be different and the demographics will be different. You also want to <hes> give marketing the specific types of problems they face for example in the project management world. This might be heterogeneous projects all require separate treatment or lots of conflicting inflicting information in their existing project management approaches or the ability to manage projects across companies or the ability to manage resources more effectively. You also want to give marketing some idea of how the other alternative solutions at these ideal prospects are looking at how they might be failing them in other words this this is sort of how our product is better in certain ways than the competitors so the second step is to review your company's marketing message around your product is at crafted did so that the people who have the specific problems you solve are moved to action and are undesirable prospects less likely to take action. You wanna just make sure that your marketing message is targeted towards the right segments such as midsized companies with a certain number projects and a certain number of project managers. Finally this needs to be a continuous process. You need to step into a relationship with marketing where you share this information. On a continuous basis. The expertise of marketing is to find an track leads fitted desired profile and its product management's management's responsibility to define that profile now. I mentioned the value proposition target market segment as the most important information to get the marketing since those are often missing in many go to market efforts but of course there's lots of additional information that we have that will be valuable to marketing like customer success stories so i'll talk a lot more about customer success stories and and other related things in the next episode in the context of the sales discovery call handling objections but there's no question they're critical tool for marketing as well. I wanted to let you know. I know that i have a new cheat sheet on the website. You might find valuable related to customer stories. It's a framework and template for capturing the information for great customer success stories to access the cheat sheet. You can go to the show notes at all the responsibility dot com slash three two zero where there's a link in the show notes or simply go directly to all the responsibility ability dot com slash stories and that will take you directly to the access page so you give market segment information marketing to find qualified leads and of course the value proposition to help them pitch if they know who to target their programs will work a lot better for the company now the sales team also needs the right product knowledge to be successful which means they can sell a lot more of your product and this starts from the first call with the prospect. If the salesperson asked the wrong questions during that first call then even a good prospect can turn into a total loss and a bad prospect might stay in the sales process for far too long even though there's no chance of them buying but if you ask the right questions the chances of closing a good prospect prospect go way up and the salesperson can quickly eliminate the bad leads which saves lots of time and lots of money that can be voted to closing the great leads so as you'll z. Product knowledge drives a lot of sales success and i'm gonna talk a lot about that. In the next episode of the podcast make sure subscribe to the podcast that you'd get that one when it comes out in a few days now. Do you remember my sales engineering team who asked me how to improve their agile demo. After we started sharing better product knowledge from the product team our sales and marketing results took off the sales people now use their initial discovery calls to uncover the prospects key problems using the improved qualifying questions. I coached a sales engineers to focus their their product demos to show how we tackle those problems specifically for each prospect and these changes had a really big impact after we implemented. This new approach sales started beating their quotas. Every quarter in fact business was so good that we started growing so much that we were acquired by a competitor who felt us nipping at their heels so to summarize the main points of this episode episode product has a ton of information to share with sales and marketing to make them more successful for marketing. You need to provide the products value proposition and it's ideal target segment if you do that marketing will be much more likely to provide a pipeline of good leads to the sales organization in the next episode. I'll share the key pieces of product information you you need to provide two sales for them to be able to take advantage of these great leads to sell your product more effectively and i'll give you some tools and techniques for developing that information so until then and this is nells davis in this is the all the responsibility none of the authority podcast for show notes and links to the resources. I mentioned in the episode including my articles on the value proposition and my spreadsheet illustrating the additional revenue you can generate by targeting better leads go to all the responsibility dot com slash three two zero until until next time. This has nells davis by a uh.
#1211 - Q&A: What can I do with an email list?
"Small businesses are grappling with the impact of these uncertain times and looking for resources. That's why del Technologies Symbol all-star lineup of podcasters to create the first ever virtual conference to share advice inspiration for small businesses Dell. Technologies advisors are also here to help you navigate remote. Working Essentials dealt technologies recommends windows ten pro for business searched Dell Technologies Small Business Padron on radio DOT COM spotify or apple podcasts. Starting may first. You may have heard me or somebody else. Say at some point. You ever listen to any kind of resource about small business entrepreneurship making money on the side. Cetera. You may have heard me say or somebody. You should be building an email list. It's one of the very few recommendations that just about everybody agrees on We all have different perspective. There's a whole startup way of doing things. That's very different. Nisa way but just about everyone agrees that an email list is important in this day and age. No matter what platform comes out no matter. How COMMUNICATION CHANGES ETC? Email is still around okay so this is almost always a good idea. However you shouldn't just build up a list or a series of this and not do anything with them okay. I've actually done that before so do as I say not as I do when people join your email list. It's because they want to hear from you key point so today's listener has a coaching service for riders and she has been diligently building that email list. She's got the first step down but now she wonders what she should be using it for. What's the next step? What can you do with an email list support for side-hustle school comes from our friends at rocket mortgage by quicken loans? Home today is so much more than it was yesterday but it rocket mortgage home is still all about you during these challenging times the top priority at rocket mortgage is the health and safety of the communities. They serve if you need mortgage assistance. Their team is available. Twenty four seven to answer questions and offer solutions whether that means saving money your mortgage or finding a new way to navigate payments from their homes. Yours the team at rocket mortgage is with you visit rocket mortgage dot com slash hustle to learn more call for cost information and conditions. Equal housing lender licensed in all fifty states. Nmls CONSUMERACCESS DOT ORG number. Three zero three zero. Hi Chris this is Katie from London. I love the show especially the new format which is incredibly helpful. I recently set up a side. Hustle calls pick up your pen which is coaching for writers. I want to help. Writers reach their dream rushing goal so I offer accountability and help them deal with procrastination self doubt and other creative of just started to build up an email list and my question is what do. I actually do with it right now. I'm sending out regular emails with writing tapes and that seems to be going well. But what's the next step? How do I go from here to actually selling my coaching services? I'm a writer heart so anything to do with marketing and sales makes me feel a bit uncomfortable. The only thing I've come up with so far is to offer discounts but that's not a great long term strategy. I'd love your advice. Can't wait to hear from you and thanks again for the great show by Katie. Thank you so much absolutely. Sounds like you are on the right track. Sending out regular emails with writing tips in this situation is exactly the kind of content. You should be preparing. I'd also recommend you do that on a consistent schedule so it's not just random but it becomes something that your readers expect. You know every Monday every Monday and Thursday Monday Wednesday Friday. Whatever it is you can decide but you just be consistent with it now. Katie is also correct to wonder. Okay what's next? And since she is a writer in comfortable with that medium I would recommend that. She approaches the selling of her coaching services. As a writer would you know what does her ideal customer needs to know? That's the question. What is your ideal? Customer needs to know. Consider writing them a letter. Your letter is an email right but your emails a letter. You know. Here's your problem. I had this problem too. I figured out how to fix it and guess what together we can do that for you. We can do that with this coaching service. So it's not so much about offering a discount necessarily as it is leading them through this so-called funnel sounds like this hard promotion thing it doesn't have to be as you're thinking through your email series which is either a static autoresponder sequence a series of messages you right in advance or an ongoing series of broadcast messages consider what might make for a good ratio of helpful content to soft promotion for example if you send three in a row with helpful writing tips and then one email that says by the way. If you're enjoying this you really should consider hiring me as your coach. Now here's how you do it and it's okay to scarcity there to say well you know. I'm a coach. I can't help everybody so I've got two slots opening up next week or next month or in the next cohort however it works. I don't think most people would find that excessive. I think that's actually natural and again that's why they're signing up for your email us because they want to hear from you. That's not the only formula that three messages and then one message thing. It's more of a principle that you should include sales messages without overdoing it. Just make it natural. Just make it flow. Help people understand that over time? You're going to give them the tips but you also are offering something for sale and that's okay your customers actually want that so good luck to you. Thank you so much again. Everyone check out her site. Pick up your PIN DOT com. Pick up your pen dot com listeners. If you've got a question of your own come to sight us all school dot com slash questions. We will be featuring throughout the year along with updates other listeners as they launched their projects. Thanks so much. I'm glad you're out there. We've got a lot more coming up. The best is yet to come. My name is Chris. Gil about this is side Hustle School From the onward projects.
Branding Vs Marketing? Which Is More Important When Building Your Online Coaching Business?
"In today's episode, we're talking about the difference between branding and marketing, and ultimately, which comes first it's a massive. I know that it creates confusion for so many coaches because I'm consistently constantly getting asked should work on my branding house, my website or is my website or my brand even important. Maybe should I just start marketing until I'm working with some clients and I understand the confusion and I understand the frustration and in this episode, we're going to demystify simplify an ultimately explained the difference between the two in how they work together to take your message out there and get you clients. Let's get into it. Welcome to the coach's corner podcast a podcast dedicated to helping you turn your knowledge, your gifts and your story into an online coaching visits. This podcast is an always will be free to listen to. My only ask is if you extract value from these episodes, simply subscribe on I tunes, leave us a review and get automatically entered into winning hundred dollars every single month for more information on the giveaway or to explore all of the options we have on serving you check www dot lucas cervix, dot com, and I'll see you there. All righty salute get into the fun stuff at least. It's fun for me and I get really excited about this because this has the potential in the power to literally change a business, and if you can change a business, make it profitable start getting clients start making money. It ultimately changes your life and the lives around you and so that's why this stuff excites me so much and in the power of branding and marketing when done together and done well is is really beautiful thing. A lot of people are doing it wrong which creates a beautiful opportunity to do it right in ultimately stand out. So I'm explaining branding and marketing. And there's holes in this explanation, but it's the simplest way for me to explain this is you can think of the brand. As the TREE TRUNK And Marketing. As the branches of the tree. The branding is the tree trunk. It rarely changes. It's like the identity who you are, your personality, Your Voice, your creed, your belief, your purpose it stands strong. No, it may evolve over time. There may be new layers added in the future, but it generally stays the same. Your marketing. Changes new branches leaves it constantly Volvos and changes in different market conditions in what's working, what's not different branches for different target audiences and it really communicates brings awareness builds relationship really communicate that value. Communicates. Your offer in gets all of the. The mess that's out there closer and closer and closer bills relationships into your trunk. It goes in. All of the chaos and brings it into your trunk. Easily from it explain it, and there's holes in that explanation I'm aware of that but that's the easiest way to look at it. So when we look at the brands. You as a brand. Ultimately. You can think of it as who you are. And we're talking coaching here. Usually coaches brand themselves like it's their name on the website. And so ultimately, it's it's your identity who you are. So yeah. We can talk about some of the surface things like logos and colors and fonts, and those are generally not that important when you first start. Yeah having a cool logo was awesome in having the colors and the fonts perfectly laid out shore. If you want to spend a little time doing it by all means, please do if you can have pride in what you're presenting, but it's not as important. To me, it doesn't matter will your first starting but what is important and when people say brand is not imported? Don't worry about your brands. They're generally saying your logo, your colors, your fonts are important which I agree with. But that's not the extent of your brand. Your brand is your voice. It's what you stand for. When we're working with clients, we do something called the creed. I go extreme like the creed is those beliefs. Those things you die for us stand for no matter what. We generally create ten of them, and then we find ways to communicate throughout our messaging. So then we inject them into our marketing and so our brand will be within our marketing material that really over and over and over. Builds a persona in whoever is consuming a marketing materials nights. You eventually start resonating with few words. All always get dedication commitment freedom. and. Those are things I really stand for. So the creed is beautiful piece that you can write down right out your beliefs, what you stand for. What's your purpose? Why are you here and why does Your Company Your Business Your coaching programs exist in the first place. That's your brand. That's your trunk now. Yeah. You may evolve as a human and evolve as a brand overtime. But. Generally won't happen overnight. Don't be like a fast switch most likely. Especially once you find your voice that stays fairly consistent over the years. Again small tweaks may happen I'm although challenging beliefs, narratives, and so if I. Realized that something if a belief evolves sure little parts of the creed and what I stand for me volve. But generally, if I started a furniture store if I started a bookstore or if I start building cameras It would still have me within it. If I was using myself as the brand. It wouldn't be that different. The coffee shop would have motorcycles and awesome speakers in a sense of freedom and individuality and people would know this. This feels different. Let's challenge the status quo. Let's fight for freedom. and. If I had a camera, it would probably be the same. Now, you're marketing. Is Where You get to play. So it's like the branches because something may happen in the world something may shift something may change. You may have different target audiences. You may have two or three demographics you serve, and so your marketing material will change an ultimate. You can think of your marketing material that communicator. It communicates and really a few things, but it'll bring awareness to you and your brands. But it also more poorly communicates your offer the value you bring the problem you solve. Your brand may not do that. You're branding gives us feel this emotion. This personality but you're marketing communicates with that one sentence. and. More of course, but starting with that one sentence here's the problem is solve. Or the problem myself for you here's the problems that it will solve four you. E.. Communicates that value? It again builds awareness. That's where you're trying a lot of different tactics on different platforms, and you might be doing some paid advertising and and try to Webinar and switching switching switching. Beautiful. Those are the branches. You can try different tactic tomorrow and see if it works as as you collect the data, you'll know if it works or not. Your marketing will help communicate. It's what bills that relationship but also your brand is injected into your marketing. So your relationship is being built. Yes but it's not just tactical. It's not just some words you use to try to trick someone to buy something from you your voice, your personalities injected in your marketing It also communicates offer. Aka The problem you solve it how you solve it. I really like to think of marketing purpose is to ultimately sell. And we can go a step deeper marketing and sales are also different things. The marketing brings awareness it brings people in generates, leads it in the marketing moves people into the sales process. That conversation that is to be had to make sure it's perfect fit and it turns into a sale. Now, your brand is also within all of that. So you brand is that tree trunk that blanket that covers everything. That's happening within and so to answer, the fundamental question is is the brand important? Yes. But just building brand. Is is not going to serve you in a lot of people trying to build a brand. But. They're not doing any marketing in their thinking that by building a brand, they're actually doing marketing and you're not. You might build an audience and people think it's really cool but if you're not. Marketing and communicating your offer in the value and showing the problems you solve just build a really cool brand. I've seen this happen. So many times coaches will build a brand and in the can't sell to that brand because they haven't been conditioned to buy. The never even heard you make an offer and now the all of a sudden do and they're like, what is this somewhat I signed up for the expectation wasn't there you have to communicate. A that you're in business be that yes there is a transaction that can occur soon, not tricking people and let your marketing and branding build the relationships. So people can choose when and where they're ready to speak with you to buy from you. So again. Yes. It's important. Will will always work through definitely a few hours of fundamental core beliefs and of Corp-, branding things before we move into the marketing, but we don't spend more than a week on. That's for sure wants the brand is dialed in and your creed, your personality, your voice who you are, what you stand for why you stand for is dialed in, we move into the marketing. Building out the infrastructure building order funnel. So we can drive traffic into it while you're brand blankets every message in everything we put out there all the way maybe trying different angles speaking to different audiences, your brand holds firm holds true holds. It's it's it's everywhere in that's where that real connection is made. So I hope that clears that up if you've been focusing too much time on branding. Let's dial that down. You probably have that dialed in. And that's focus on marketing. Now, if you've only been doing marketing but getting frustrated because no one's buying from you, that can be a few reasons for it but ultimately, one big reason there's no trust built. They don't know you know you know you if they don't know you know you know you won't like you and if they don't like you, they won't buy from you. So you got to inject that that branding that feel that voice that personality that makes you you that makes the. Material, they're looking at human to them. And if you could do that game over getting clients is no longer A. Mystical. Phenomena that occurs it comes down to a science and then we just keep tweaking daily and you marketing until you're working with clients I hope that de mystifies that www dot lucas dot com for absolutely anything else. If you WANNA get more tactical and strategic we've got a few awesome freebies were given away. We've got the online coach academy that's a free video course in a masterclass You can check out in dive in deep behind the scenes of really what a successful online coaching business looks like. If you want to go one layer deeper check with the coaches university, that's stay. Until you get paid coaching program, we work with you until you get paid, we actually go deeper than that and we work with you until you make ten thousand dollars in sales if that. Interest you check out www dot lucas rubrics, dot com check with the details, and with that said, truly hope this inspired you motivate you to keep moving forward your clients are begging. Begging for you to reach them, your clients are having a real problem, the need solutions, and it's your job to brand accordingly, and then mark get your message get out there reach the right people and move them into a sales conversation. That's literally your duty. Your job your purpose as a coach. So you can then with your client, get the results, chain some lies and Dude God puts you on this planet to do with that said I'm Outta here it'll talk to you soon. All right. So as always is one of the episode was saying, thank you for listening these episodes are one hundred percent free in the dedicated to helping you build your coaching business because there are clients out there, just waiting for you to read some waiting for you to give them a result. So do not give up on your dream never give up on. Your business again, these episodes of one percent free all I ask in return give it a thumbs up to give it. Give it a little bit of love comments on the reviews you share it with one or two coaches who you know could use help building their coaching businesses. That's it. I'm done. Thank you for listening and I'll see you on the next episode.
Remove Emotion From Your Decisions
"Hey there I'm Kevin Daisy and Eric Olson join us on our journey building a one hundred million dollar company hey there this is. Kevin do you let emotions drive your business decisions or do you let data and of course I'm just speaking for myself and my company but we here to make you money don't worry about those things they're not gonNa make you money here's the data or your website for instance it's there to convert people into customers so maybe that war in the homepage no-one really cares we don't care it is what it is less ranked for the words that are going to get the best result they're gonNA make you the most money your office time and time again I see this and it's really become easy for me to say hey listen I appreciate your feelings about that but we're here to make you money speaks for itself so one example of this I see all the time is when I'm meeting with prospects and I can tell that the owner or CEO whoever's in charge has saying well there's no search volume for that keyword your competitors are coming up for all the other words that consumers are searching for and I always said to them take out the emotion offer new website if so we'd love to help you out check out our website services at this is the Ray Dot Com award that they've won that they want to display on the homepage of the website or it could be this is the key word that I wanNA rank for on Google and for whatever and it's in the way of the call to action the next logical step for that person to take which may be calling you fill in a website form or getting directions or let us do the research at least show you the data in let's make a decision based on nat how how do your emotions affect your business and reason regardless of the data Desta only keyword they wanna rank for and that's what they're going to care about the end of the day versus so take your emotions out of the game do the research look at the data and then make your decision thank you for listening is it is he a particular emotional tied to things like their bio photo or their bio on their website or their about page times the choices that we make are not going to help our business you might just be something that we want to do or WanNa see and sometimes that's fine but I would definitely say when he comes is like marketing and sales just use what works do it works and if you have a team that's not helping you you know you wanNA look elsewhere.
Drift: Sales Bot Engineering with David Cancel
"David cancel has started five companies most recently drift drift is a conversational marketing and sales platform, David has a depth of engineering skills and a breadth of business experience that make him an amazing source of knowledge. In today's episode David discusses topics ranging from the technical details of making a machine learning driven sales platform to the battle scars of his early career. When he spent a lot of time building products that people did not want. He has since found success by focusing on building software that the market has shown a desire for chat bots or a particularly popular trendy subject. A few years ago, the success of chat bots manifested in them fading into the background and becoming a subtle increasing part of our everyday conversations and interactions. Not every online interaction can be replaced by a chat bot, but many online interactions can be. He made more efficient by using chat. Bots chat bots can serve well-defined information. Like product features or the hours of operation of business. When a chat bot gets a question that it cannot answer the bought can route the conversation to a human when a customer lands on a web page of a company using drift. They see a chat box appear in the corner of the screen. The customer is able to communicate through that chat box with a bought that represents the company the customer can learn about the product schedule a call with a sales person and get other useful utilities from the drift sales Bhatt. So for example, if I needed to buy podcast transcription software. Let's say I wanted to get my podcasts transcribed into some text format. And I'm shopping around looking for different vendors that can sell me that software on one site. I might see a little chat box in the lower right hand corner. That is the drift sales bought and. Talk to that sales bought about the pricing of the transcription software. What's the value of it? And that Botkin route me to a human salesperson if I need it. The drift chat bought messaging system is handled by elixir, which is a platform or programming language framework on top of Erling. We have done a pass show about elixir. We've also reported on Erling Erling is widely known as the messaging language that was used to scale. What's app while maintaining high availability on the back. End Java services, take the interactions from the drift bought and put into a CRM which allows sales and marketing people to manage information about the customers that are interacting with the chat, bot, David gives lots more detail around the engineering stack the deployment model and his thoughts on the business and modern engineering before we get started. I want to mention we recently launched a new podcast fintech daily. Early fintech. Daily is about payments crypto currencies trading and the intersection between finance and technology. You can find it on fintech. Daily dot CO or on apple or Google podcasts. We're looking for other hosts who want to participate if you are interested in becoming a host for fintech daily. Send us an Email host at fintech. Daily dot CO were very early infant tech daily. And we'd love to get your opinions on the shaping of the show from reporting on all of these different fintech companies, like challenger, banks and crypto currencies and payments companies. There is a lot of depth to cover in fintech. And we're hoping to really bring the same amount of depth that we bring to software engineering daily to covering the topics with infant daily. So I hope you like it. I hope you check it out. And let's get on with this episode. A thank you to our sponsor data dog a cloud monitoring platform bringing full visibility to dynamic infrastructure and applications create beautiful dashboards set powerful machine. Learning based alerts and collaborate with your team to resolve performance issues. You can start a free trial today and get a free t shirt from data dog by going to software engineering. Daily dot com slash data dog data dog integrates seamlessly with more than two hundred technologies, including Google cloud platform, AWS Docker, pager duty and slack with fast installation and setup plus API is an open source libraries for custom instrumentation data dog makes it easy for teams to monitor every layer of their stack in one place. But don't take our word for it. You can start a free trial today and data dog will send you a free t shirt. Visit software engineering daily dot com slash. Data dog to get started. Thank you to data dog. David cancel your they CEO and co founder of drift. Welcome to software engineering daily. Thanks for having me. I'm super excited to be here. Your company drift makes a chat interface that appears on sites, and it helps with the sales process of a product. Explain what drift does. Yeah. Basically would drift. Does is like you said it sits on your website. It's a chat bots, and basically helps people get answers to the question immediately. And so basically is like a fast pass a fast-lane around the typical marketing and sales process. So you know, we're trying to build software that connects people to people directly, and we use Botts in order to find the right place to to send your request. Let's say I'm looking at some new tools to run my podcast company. So for example, I might want to get my podcast transcribed because many people like to read the podcast rather than listen to it. So I go to the home pages of several different sites. That can sell me podcast transcription tools. They all have different ways of selling to me. Tell me about how some of these sales processes might vary. Yes. So you know, what we learned? And what we see in most. When you try and buy when your business like yourself trying to buy from another business. Typically, would you end up going to the website that has a contact form you fill out a contact form of some sort or demo request form or send me information form. And then you probably get a series of emails, and then maybe someone will get back to maybe not. And you're left wondering, how do I get someone at this business to actually talk to me? And so that used to work right in the old world, you know, ten years ago that would work because companies had all the control they control demand. You know, they were the only game in town. But now, we believe that, you know, there's an infinite supply of products and services out there, and that the buyer all of us are. In control. And in that world, we want an answer to our question now. Right. Like, the analogy I was used like your website as the store if you were to walk into a store and the only way for that sort of sell you something is for you to walk in and leave your name phone number and Email address on a piece of paper. And then for them to send you a bunch of a male in the post, and maybe one day, they would call you and say, okay, you can come in. Now, we'll sell you something you would think I was in crazy. But that is the modern experience for B two B today on the web. So we say instead one, and you have someone that can greet you twenty four seven three sixty five and route you to the right person. So that they can treat you like a person. So let's zoom in on that example, to contrast the experience, I might have if I go to one of these podcast transcription software sites, and I enter in my contact information in some kind of form I asked them to contact me. Maybe it's eleven PM. So it's you know, there's nobody's manning the site right now. Verse is if that site had drift bought which is your bought where I can just chat with it. And maybe learn some information about the transcription software, the pricing, tell me about how those experiences might vary for the customer. Yes. For the customer. Let's say that experience right there. What would happen is the everyone was asleep? They were known was around and so- drift bought with step in and try to answer your questions. And if you wanted to talk to someone, and we knew that everyone was asleep in that business where we would do is offer up the counter of the person who you should speak to and say, hey, by the way, David's not around right now. He's asleep. Here's his counter one. You choose the time. That's most convenient to you the customer, not the business, but you for them to get back to you. And would you like them to Email you call us, you know, zoom you zen castor? You whatever it is. But all of a sudden you're turning dynamic around. And it's on my terms as a buyer versus me waiting around. And wondering when this business is going to get back to me soup before you started this business. You were chief product officer at hub spot and ops spot. I think of as at the leading edge of how sales and marketing automation works together. And it makes people who are in those kinds of roles much more effective efficient, and we we used hubs spot for a while. It's offer engineering daily. You know, in that case, it was it allowed us, you know, which is just me and Erica, my co-founder. She she, and I neither of us have any experience in sales and marketing, but we were able to have sales and marketing facilities from hub spot. So when you were there for three or four years, what did you learn about how sales and marketing software was changing how did that eventually lead to you starting drift? It's a great question. I learned so much during that process. I'd say, you know, the thing that I came away from I learned so much in the sales marketing. Process being an engineer myself originally, and what we learned was we were trying to create this. What we call them bound back, then they still call inbound, right? This inbound experience instead of relying advertising cO calls and all this stuff. We said turn your website into a magnet. We both tools to allow that get people to your website, and then have a better experience because of that. But the tools that we were building were more marketers and for sales people to be better marketers and to sell more to their customer base. And that was the perspective that we had very different perspective than when I started drift. Our perspective is we're not building tools to help you sell better. Right. We're building tools to help your buyers by very seem subtle, but it's totally different. So our emphasis is on the end user the end customer not on the salesperson or the marketer. And it just changes fundamentally the way that we're doing things in how we prioritize what we're doing the other thing that I learned was we're doing from an inbound perspec-. It was amazing. And it was right for the time, and it continues to be powerful, but we live in a different time right building your website into a magnet is not enough. Right. Because now so much happens. That's even outside of your website to you probably have way more competitors than you did back. Then so ranking for something on Google, let's say is pretty hard where wasn't in two thousand seven eight nine nine eleven and cetera. And today, we say the buyer has all the control. And so how do we build tools for that world where the buyer has all the control they want to be able to message and have conversations with the brands and the companies and the emphasis now is on the conversation and the customer versus the salesperson the marketer and tools to help them sell better. Now, a lot of the challenges when I look at this company seemed to be around product design rather than engineering implementation at least in the early stages of the company. So like when I look at the product to me, it looks like. A lot of you ex challenges maybe challenges about how the company adopts drift bought how they integrated into their website. And then once you get some volume, and you get a high interaction, and you get a better understanding of how people are using drift Baden interacting with it. Then you get into engineering problems like r- significant June problems like what kinds of machine learning. Can we do because of statistical analysis can we do is that an accurate assessment? Or were there some serious engineering problems that you dealt within the upfront? The first iteration of the product does definitely been there's more engineering problems that we dealt with at this company adrift in any of their that I've ever been a part of and the reason is that all the other models were built, you know, on an existing paradigms, and that paradigm was, you know, the relational database, and that everything could fit neatly in a relational database, and we'd have things entered in nicely by humans in. Into CRM's in other systems, basically relational databases, and we could create key relationships during those things, and we could find them and make them all accessible, right? That's the model that sales for popularized. That's the model that every that we use that spot. That's the model that every tool and sales and marketing, and beyond, you know, business offer uses it's the relational database model, and we set out from the beginning to not build on that paradigm, but to be start to start working in new paradigm, which was built entirely on conversation data, and as you can imagine conversation data's super messy and complicated. And there's no referential integrity that you can have in this system and user could enter in anything, and so we had to make inferences we have to make predictions. We have to infer what the customer might mean from this highly unstructured piece of data. And so the technical challenges are are pretty deep and one of the inferences that we have to make is who's the best person to deal with. If this person with an organization, and that has depending on the size of the organization for a very large organization. You could imagine has super complicated rules about routing and about preferences, and who gets what. And how do they get notified? So, but that's the beauty of what we've been building, which is from the customer standpoint, it should seem simple, and then from a data model standpoint, and from an engineering standpoint, it's super complicated underneath, and that's the whole point like the customer doesn't care how it happens like that's our problem to deal with, but they're super geeky engineering problems that we have to deal with and is that challenge because companies are on boarding and moving their data sets that they already have in in some unstructured data model onto drift or is it because just the greenfield. Even just the greenfield customer case. There's so much multiplicity in the different ways that they might wanna do that routing that building a really flexible model for how even new customers, can you? It is an engineering challenge. Yeah. It's it's kind of a little both. So I'd say they are moving kind of meta data that they have which is meta data about like, how do they route things where does it go? How do we have purposes? What hours all those kind of things? So those exists today, and they move those in and then it's all greenfield. Because the minute that we are used by customer we start to collect we start to be in the middle of conversation data between the customer and the business, and they're it's totally green. Right. And in those cases, it was amazing. Even in the beginning stages of the company, we would see things like we would instantly have more customer insights within that unstructured messy crazy data only coming in through one channel at the time, which was chat, then would be in that company's CRM, which was highly structured highly disciplined had been there for a long time because the data model was so different data model behind CRM in every business us today is this. It's a meta data database, right? That collects information that describes an activity or conversation, but it doesn't have the activity or the conversation in the data model just information that describes it and all of that information is largely inputted by humans so error-prone, but it is controlled. And we kinda like woke up one day when we starting drift and said, wait, the whole model is crazy because historically made sense because you couldn't be in the middle of conversation. But now that you could be in the middle of the conversation. Why would all the data just be meta data entered in my humans who don't want to enter the data in and that be totality CRM? Instead, we said, look if we look within the conversation data, we can have answers to questions like who are the competitors. That your your customers are comparing you to how will they measure success who have they talked to how do they feel from happiness standpoint? Like all of this kind of from sentiment sampling, all these things are just in the conversation stream itself, but if you were to ask. Ask the same questions, and I did of the executives within that company or the heads of sales or the heads of marketing, you know, who are the top three competitors you being compared against you know, this week last month in this segment. What have you? They would say, I don't know. Right. Unless predefined that piece of meta data into my data model in the CRM and then enforced people to comply with filling out that field those being the sales people and the people qualifying I wouldn't know. How would I know that right? And we'd say, well, the the customers telling you right now, and we can show you that is the fundamental issue there that if I am a customer, I go to a website. I'm looking at podcast transcription software. I begin chatting with drift bought and drift body's telling me, perhaps Shem information about the software, and I'm giving drift bought information in an unstructured fashion. I'm typing paragraphs and in an ideal world, you would be able to parse those paragraphs of text those. Unstructured paragraphs of tax that the customers typing into structured fields that you could potentially put into the CRM things about customer preferences. Maybe the customers phone number the customers buying patterns, these kinds of things the challenge there is that you are doing a transform on the unstructured data of paragraphs into the structured data of a CRM. Exactly. So in our data model, if you think about it from that standpoint, we have to have things that are not only the translation of that. But the predicted accuracy of that translation. So we have to have a confidence score, right? In other words of that. And then as we learn more or that person shifts and in the relationship, maybe those inferences have changed. Right. So what does that mean? So you magin data model that is part of it is unstructured data that you have access to the others predictions that we've made based on that unstructured data and the third is pretty sophisticated kind of social graph of the relationship and states and things. Have happened. And then another layer which is automated actions that are bought may have taken based on those inferences or based on different events dates, right? Like, you have to put all this together to really understand what's happening with a customer interaction, which probably similar to human kind of interaction if you were to to have that in a real world kinda like store analogy, right? You're all these sophisticated things are happening and people making inferences or some shins or things like that. And we have to figure out a way to model that and be able to convey our confidence in that when you started drift. I believe that most of the the machine learning API is like the the really nice ones that you get on Google cloud, for example, that do NLP and sentiment inference, and those kinds of things we just send a block of text in it figures out things magically for you those were not available yet like that you were a few years before that. So did you. To roll your own like NLP implementations in order to figure out the structure of these this unstructured data. Yeah, we had a role most almost everything internally and then the stuff from Google and others started to come out kind of a little bit later. And so we've used some we use some of that stuff somewhere. But it has you magin it's kind of domain very domain specific when we use different things, and we're constantly iterating on that stuff. Right now, we just acquired a company which we haven't announced yet that has been doing pretty deep on the side of things on the side which will announce soon, but like the most of it we had a home role, and then which is like most things, you know, early on. And then as new capabilities have come on board. We've looked at them sometimes they use them. Sometimes he don't and again, then that changes the data model too. Because the more you using the tools that you're using or the analysis that you're doing is is changing. So if you think back to like famous kind of Google. Pay drank stuff, right? Like, there was a confident pay drank was a confidence level of an authority score based on citations on the web. But those were kind of like static, right? Those are static citation. Sure. More certaines with growing, and so your influence can grow over time. But the you know that was largely static model versus this which were trying to make predictions on what language means and kind of nuance in there. And so it's a pretty sophisticated, and it's also as you can imagine being an engineer Superfund, right? Because we don't it's all kind of the age of the pirate. Right. I felt like when I first started building stuff online, you know, was in the mid nineties commercial stuff that is. And you know, I felt like we were like pirates back then because we had to invent everything like there were no there was no stack exchange. There was no Google. There was nothing to go. Look. We didn't have models to see we mostly read RC's to try to figure out how different protocols, we're working and kinda reverse engineer. Most of the stuff and I felt like at the beginning of. Lift were very much at that stage now, but obviously things are moving pretty quickly. Gouverneur can be difficult container networking storage, disaster recovery. 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I think you're actually really well positioned to capture. I'm sure, you know, this, but to capture a lot of the value that is it's on a clear trajectory with with you know, you look at things like in g mail with the autoresponder thing. I e you know, talking about of course. Yeah. So like, the g mail autoresponder where now if you use g mail, you see three or four little suggested responses, and when this feature first came out, it was like, okay. It wasn't that great. You know, you would have suggestions. Like, yes. That time works for me. And you're like that. That's that's not contemptuously relevant to me. That's not something I should click. But now, you have really really good suggestions. It's I think it's integrated with your calendar sometimes. And then you you see these things like the Google thing where you can, you know, reserve a restaurant. I think they kind of rolled that back because it was scaring people. But it seems like you're in really good shape. So what do you think what kinds of opportunities are around the corner win? In some of these technologies just incrementally improve for you. How do you think you'll be able to leverage them, and how will they well, I guess how will they add more leverage to the sales people and the businesses that that used drift? So I think like you highlighted there to super exciting time. And so it's the beginning very beginning inning of this. And so we see from ourselves from an opportunity standpoint. Like, we're just in the beginning of one conversational channel, which is chat. We've extended into Email will extend into voice will extend the video will extend until all these different ways of communicating and no bring their own problem set. And so super exciting about that. I think you know, fundamentally what we believe is that when we can do all the stuff, and when we can assist the buyer, and then assist the salesperson the marketer inside the company. We're basically most of what we're doing is removing a lot of the grunt repetitive. You know copy and paste kind of work that. Most people most knowledge workers all of us. Right. Like, I don't know if people you still use that term. But like all of us are doing every day and for successful. We'll be letting them really focus on the things that they're good at whether it's, you know, being creative on the marketing side, whether it's the relationship from the sales standpoint, we don't see a world this kind of a scary world of like on this is going to replace everything, and everyone we just think jobs will adapt. And we'll be able to focus more on the things that were uniquely suited at verses the grunt work that we've been doing. Because most of what we've been doing is kind of the factory equivalent of digital right? We call it digital paperwork. Yeah. To agree with that. Let's talk a little bit more about the engineering side of things. Can you give me an overview of your infrastructure? Sure. Well, I'd say, you know, let's start with you know, we're about thirty five percent of the team is engineering, and I said a crazy goal which will see if I can hit and twenty and nineteen for fifty percent of the company to be. Engineering and so myself, my co-founder, listen CTO on the CEO from injuring backgrounds. And so we think that engineering not only be part of the product creation process, but we'll have embedded engineering teams as from a model standpoint within every part of the organization whether that sales marketing customer success financing cetera, which we could go on about for a while. But from a stack standpoint, we are largely based on Java elixir in Java script, you know, both on from react standpoint. So we use react here as our framework we use react native for IOS stuff. And we're just in the beginning, some some Android work that we're doing, but we're mostly I o s and and web at this point. And so say the teams are largely split between Java, and then some elixir and some other frameworks within the organization. No go so far. But a lot of Java. And then Java. Script and front end developers. Elixir is I believe a layer on top of early is that right? That's correct. And we had a pass company my co-founder, and I started work that longtime ago, we were kind of early Erling users, which was, you know, Erlanger not to geek out much Orleans at amazing. You know, first time I saw it. I was like this is the first alien technology that I've seen because it was so different from from a coding standpoint than anything else. And then the first time that I saw react native. I thought the same thing again, I was like this is alien technology here because I don't know what any of this means. Yeah, the syntax is pretty unfamiliar to people who who haven't spent much time. And now, I know what's app is built on Erlanger. And they've talked about the the importance of Erling for keeping their the durability of their messaging system up is was that the motivation for using lecture because your fundamental messaging company. Yeah. You know, it's basically has the new. Easier version, right? It's a framework on top of Erling Orleans pretty daunting for a lot of people to understand and Orlando was written by largely people in Erickson, the phone company years ago, and the reason that we started to use it was super low latency distributed by nature right in in the way that it works. And then almost the most important part about it was it's fault, tolerant nature. So it was and this was the first thing that blew me away years ago when we're using early was like that you could really have the notion of being able to hot swap in between processes, which was like, I still don't really understand how it works, but even using it for so long, but that was kind of a notion that was built into it. And that was such a hard problem for us to solve in the past. When we built stuff in Java, and I used to write in CNC, plus plus and long long long many years ago, but like that was a really hard kind of computer science problem and. It was kind of built into the very nature was not an out on it was built into the core of avert. And so those are the three reasons that we started to use it could you articulate that problem a little more detailed hot swap problems that we call it. Yeah. Problem that we would always run into in early days of the web when I was coating was that magin that we were using Unix based systems so process base systems. And so that you can imagine that a connection came in from let's say a website to make it easy. And that was that was forked onto certain process on the system. Now, if that process died, you would lose the connection between that end user and the website, right? And we built kind of work arounds on how to do that. So again, we were largely working in a stateless world back then and then we relied on cookies to add state, but we had broken kind of the state in the connection and then over time when you wanted to get someone on from overloaded machine. Overloaded set of processes to immune machine, you would run into the swap problem. Which is how do we take active connections that say you're doing something right now or watching a video or listening to a voice thing on the internet? How could we take your income connection and swap you over to another the set of machines dynamically without you having any interruption? Right. So this is a hard problem and with Erling we could do that. Right. And that's why we started to use it you could be moved over and the system could figure out that it's overloaded and start to move you over to another machine another process. But without you, noticing anything on the client side. Okay. Very interesting. So if I understand your stat correctly, it's you've got a chatterbox, for example on the customer's website, and that's in. Well, I guess it just just in react react. And then that is going to be interfacing with a middleware kind of layer the teen elixir. And then that's interfacing with Java back end. Yep. Then some cases and Java back end and lots of other back ends, so endless number of micro services. But yeah, they're mostly Java based okay? So there's micro services is are those like summer in node or just kind of free for all not free probably. Yeah. Node and Java. And so the whole micro services thing is a whole another interesting thing like when I was at hub spot. We tr- we rewrote everything into Java and python mostly Java. And we ended up with like, you know, thousand plus micro services. So we went crazy on the micro services thing, but micro services, then create a whole nother, and we still believe in the architecture, but still creates a whole another set of problems, which is like, how do you trace things, you know, how do you understand what's happening when you're dealing with these frameworks whether it's react, or whether it's looks or any of these kind of things where there's so many levels of abstraction in the in the language itself. Like traceability becomes a big problem. Right. Like you can't forget like where? Is this thing going wrong? And how do you measure it and all these kind of things, but this is a problem we've been dealing with him at least my time in computer science forever. And so we go from distributed everything to like, let's go back to you know, everything together. And then let's go distributed again. And then let's go back to everything monolithic again. And I think what kind of in the middle or the beginning of moving from a highly distributed kind of micro service kind of thinking too. There are some cases where some things need to be a little bit monolithic. And you see that in some of the work that some companies do whether it's Facebook others. Like, there are a lot of things I run into the monolithic kind of mode. Yes. Well, or even Google also because the whole mono repo idea, I would love to do a show about this. But my understanding is that at both Google and Facebook, they have kind of virtual file system that makes it easier for people to deal with the mono repo, and she could just kind of open anything, and it's like it all exists on your. Your local machine, but I don't completely understand that the deployment model. Really do show on that. I'd love to hear it because that's like so many things that you hear over the years, and I don't understand either. I'd like to know. Well, I was just talking to somebody yesterday an engineer who I really respect, and he was talking about how he's like, I think there's a kind of a micro services industrial complex where you know, these companies have, you know, like, the the service provider companies have have sort of convinced people that you need to have micro services as an engineer like the micro services idea is really appealing because you're like, yeah. It's like the Unix philosophy. Got do what do one thing? Really? Well, and you have these you know, partitioned things that can independently scale up and down. But then it leads to this high quantity of problems like like, you said distributed tracing or like how you doing logging and in many ways, the monolith makes these things a lot easier. But there's not as many, you know, the cynical view is, oh, these companies are pushing this because it encourages you to make a big reflector in and then they could sell you all these micro service support tools. I'm not really like cynical in either direction. I think it's kind of like what you said like, it's just a back and forth. And it's like how are you doing this? And then or can you offload a lot of this too just like manage services? Like, why are you rolling these things on by yourself at all totally totally. I agree. I think you know, I think it's we're just humans, and we over correct all the time if something works. Well, then we go to the extreme and overdo it and then nature takes over. And we have to add that back the other way just like the tides. It's like the moon rising and setting and the sun setting. It's all the same thing with nature just ebbs and flows. And so we over correct. And then we gotta go back the other way and then over correct in that direction, then you know, hopefully over the long range we are somewhere in the middle. But we're constantly going from one extreme to the other. What is your deployment model for these different services? A we have for a long time now, but three companies now believed in this, you know, which I think everyone does at this point. But it was kind of it was interesting back then which was this that we constantly ship. We're constantly shipping to production. And so we've always invested heavily in engineers being able to come in kind of as their first day and be able to ship something instantaneously to production. So, you know, I think the shipping model is interesting. The more interesting part is that in order to support this that we've had to invest again in an all of these companies into kind of a pretty elaborate gating model. So like, how do you getting infrastructure? So what I mean by that is like if you're constantly releasing to production like how do you get access to certain things that are not ready to subset of users? And how do you control those gates, or switches, whatever you wanna call it in your world? And who has ability to do that. How do you roll back from all that stuff and that whole getting there now companies that have seen one or two that are come out with that are building stuff in this area? But we've largely homegrown that stuff in the past and currently. Yeah. Launched arkley. I I'm talking to them. Exactly very about. Yeah. The feature flagging stuff. And I think there's also. Split. Yes. That's the other one. But before that you had to build it on your own and super quarter what we're doing from release model stamp on because everything else breaks if you don't have this. We need to be able to target a beta group users for specific part of the product, and it could be a whole product or could be a screen or it could be you know, field within a screen. It can be like all these kind of things and we invested a ton in that helps bond and before and we invest a ton right now. That's not fun software to build when you're you know, it's it's it's pretty far away from the core. Competency of what you would wanna do at drift. But I can understand why you needed to build it in that timeframe because it's super Cordier business. Totally and I'll tell you one piece of software, which is even less fun for our team to build, and that's the ability for its related the ability for a customer to opt in to feature and then having so imagine we roll something out to our customer base. Some of our large customers. It's hard for them to stop them. You change, even if it's a subtle change to a screen because they've kind of trained so many people on the other way, even if this way is way better. And so we allow them to opt in let's say you have three months, six months, whatever the amount of time is to opt into this new screen, but it's on their terms. You can imagine how much you know, engineers would hate this because you would have to you have to keep both versions of your code being able to run throughout this. No fun. So on the other side of the spectrum any interesting learnings from higher level managed services. Whether you're talking about things like, you know, sage AWS age maker, or you know, some fancy new API that I haven't heard of any NLP is or things like that these higher level manage services are really fascinating to me. They're interesting. I mean, we we look at lots of different versions of those. We look lots of different technologies like like a snowflake. Or what have you all of those kind of systems? I think, you know, the biggest learning for us is that is actually on the on the learning side is that we have that one the customer doesn't care how something is done. And so whether it's machine learning, whether that's some hard quoted rule, whether that's a thousand people in the background doing something, you know, by hand, they don't really care those like internal problems. And so we try to mask all that. And so one of the learns we've learned is that. In model creation like you. There are times when you can rely on the crowd, right? The wisdom of the crowd right with people to be able to like label things or do things in certain ways to understand your data model, and that's something that we kind of taken from both Facebook and Google, right? Like Google like, nobody cares that you know, for years when you Google like there were people there were like three thousand people who were like fixing the index by hand throughout the world. Like, they just knew about pay drank or they didn't even know about that. They just knew that they returned the right thing. And then over time, you know, the the proportion of people to models to what have you changes? But nobody cares and Facebook the same like every ad get tanned approved by an another two thousand people, right? And hen reviewed some of that is moving to technology some of that is moving to models, but like the customer then care that second internal engineering problem. And I think as as engineers in his builders of products, we have to focus on that end user. Variance and not surface our decisions, and our, you know, the things that we care about up to the customer level. So it's more like a top down kind of thing. Like what customer problem is there today? And do we need a new cloud data warehouse to solve it? Well, maybe but we should start with the problem. And then figure out the solution rather than looking at the fancy tool set and seeing what fancy trouble that can get us into and knowing that sometimes that'll be a model sometimes that'll be technology. Sometimes then you have people that augment the model who knows like, but that again is all our problem not customer problems. Is there a significant amount of quote, unquote, machine learning infrastructure that you have or machine learning experts in house? You're you're using that word model your machine learning model. Yes. So machine learning models and different prediction models. Right. So we have people we have you know, what we call that in the past and people called data scientists. Day. Like, we have lots of the different people who are making trying to make predictions on data back testing doing a lot of testing of that data for Granada like where the simple like to use your kind of g mail example, earlier like where the simple places that we can surface this some of the stuff like again, g mail took a long time to go from simple, you know, cans replies. To like, the type ahead kind of stuff that you see today took a large data set and a lot of people working on that problem. But they they surfaced it. I believe in the right way of like they didn't get over their skis and try to write emails for you. Like, they just did simple. You know suggestions. And then over time once those got better they could do what they're doing today with their type ahead. We kind of look at it the same way and we have engineers in Mel people looking at stuff and surfacing little improvements throughout the system. All of the advances in data science and machine learning over the last few years. Most teams are still stuck trying to deploy their machine learning models manually that tedious. It's resource intensive and often ends in various forms of failure the algorithm. Lia AI layer deploys your models automatically in minutes empowering, data, scientists and machine learning engineers to production is their work with ease. Algorithm is AI tooling, optimizes hardware usage, and GPO acceleration and works with all popular languages and frameworks deploy m L models, the smart way and head to algorithm dot com to get started and upload your pre trained models. If you use the code S W E daily, they will give you fifty thousand credits free, which is pretty sweet that's code S W. E daily the expert engineers at algorithms are always available to help your team successfully deploy your models to production with the AI layer tooling. And you can also listen to a couple episodes. I've done with the CEO of algorithm. If you want to hear more about their pretty sweet set of software platforms. Go to algorithm dot com and use the code S W E daily to try it out. Or of course, listen to those episodes. You got all these different inputs for a particular business like what the person is typing and see the kind of messaging they using what when they schedule their meetings, and then how they make their way through the funnel. And once you get a reasonable set of customers for a given business. You might be able to make predictions about you might be like, let's say there's a sales person who's using drift. And they're looking at their leads at the beginning of their day. And they're wondering like, okay. Well, I can schedule calls with six people today who are the six people that are the highest probability or the highest expected value leads that I should focus on and that's a kind of opportunity where you could inject the machine learning. Right. You could because you could have this, you know, backlog of data that you can model that kind of decision making is that a good example of where you can use machine learning affectively. Yeah. Definitely we do it in kind of predict. Thing where to route the customer, we use it in predicting what we should reply back to. So do we have knowledge that we've extracted from a knowledge base internal repository to reply back to the customer and try to solve their problem. And then we do it on the kind of agent side. Whether that's a salesperson or what have you in terms of kind of like, the g mail example. Here's a reply that you can reply with. Here's the sentiment of customer, you know, while you're typing to them all those kind of things which are like meta data and clues about like how to best have this conversation. And then as those get better over time, we'll surface them and and take action directly to the customer, and how you test the effectiveness of those models like when you route somebody with a machine learning model prediction system, how do you know that that's actually better than just making a random choice, and that's a testing lots of testing the good thing for us or the thing that makes it easy. That for our customers we are tied to revenue, and so we tie into their existing CRM's, or if not they use drift as and so the reason that that matters is that we can track the effectiveness of certain decisions down to the end purchase to who is a sales person on one to how much opportunity from a dollar standpoint. Do we think they created in that conversation how much of it is actually closed and they became a customer. How much was closed and they lost that opportunity. So we have all those human steps in there because we tie back into the CRM and into that data set I want to ask them more. Macro question win. This GDP are complexity started appearing for lots of companies. There was a lot of anxiety around it. And you know, I was talking to some SAS companies particularly SAS companies related to kind of work that you're doing drift that the in the marketing area, and they were really unsure of how to respond to it. Did you have? Any engineering challenges that came up as you were trying to get GDP already. We definitely had some engineering challenges. I'd say we're kind of in the middle of sock to compliance which is another security kind of testing compliance thing that has a lot more engineering challenges to it because it's traceability and being audited. And all these kind of things that we have to prove the GDP are ones were more on the side of legal psychology, much stuff. And a lot of kind of a you mentioned, which was a lot of people unsure, and so even the people who may be asking the customer about GDP our compliance and how it works weren't. Sure. Have they were dealing with GDP are in their own business. And so so you have a lot of a set of a bunch of people who don't really know what this thing mean. Because the the way was written was a little Embiid. Yes. All trying to be in compliance by certain date. And so it was a lot more going back and forth than hard technical challenges. I'd say stock to bring. A lot more technical challenges, which are known, you know, people go through it right now. But it causes you to go through and re-examine your entire system and your security, and how you deal with certain things and who has access to different things. Now, it's been a lot harder for us. But it's not a deep technical challenge. You spent a good amount of time in in ad tech before you you shifted to marketing automation sales automation from that time and ad tech. I mean, ad tech. I spent a little bit of time in tech. I worked in an ad tech company briefly. And it did kind of shock me. Some of the the data ambiguity questions. Like like, wow. Is. This is the surveillance is this subject to fraud. You know, the the amount of fake users. The amount of fake clicks and fake bought and stuff like that. That was really eye opening. I I saw that kind of three or four years before it really made its way into the mainstream. I think it's still the the amount of bots online and how that. Relates to advertising hasn't really been fully grasped with by by the public, but did your time and ad tech. Did you sense that this kind of backlash against technology companies or the kind of cynicism? The growing cynicism. That public is feeling in response to kind of an advertising driven internet. Did you see that coming definitely? Although I part of the time. I felt like it was interesting because there was the starts of it. You know in this was in the mid two thousand two thousand five six something like that around that time. There was a lot of questions around cookies and this, and I remember there was something that they were trying to pass on those cookie law that we're trying to pass back then. And so many people were nervous about that stuff. But you know, if you go deep, and they should be. But if you go deep into the marketing data world that existed since you know, basically, we've started to use credit cards heavily like that world is actually. Way crazier than anything online right of the data. That's being sold in like, whether is even companies that were in financial services that would sell, you know, the exact real time access to data that other brokers were looking at certain stocks and monitoring certain things in real time in their terminals. Like, it's kinda crazy. Once you go deep in this world, and that the stuff that was online back. Then was there wasn't as much online at that point. And it was interesting, but I did start to sense that I, you know, I I left my company compete, and look and then to different companies, and then I started a project called Goostree and goes through the privacy browser extension that originally wrote for fire FOX, and now it's far FOX in chrome. It's owned by Mozilla at this point. But I started that project, and I got that up to three or four million people in the first like six months using it as a way to uncover basically, the different trackers that were running on all of the different websites, and what they meant and what kind of data were they capturing who they? Were what was the company behind that? Because I would know that I visit any, you know, especially media website, like a news website, and there'd be fifty two hundred different trackers that were going off in a in a chain that you weren't even aware of all trading, different pieces of information. But I didn't think anyone knew that. And so I created that browser extension one to highlight that and then to to let you block different versions of that stuff. Now from from capturing information, I think now there's I don't know forty fifty million people that use grocery every day. Yeah. And you found it go street and perform -able in the same year. So both of these companies were acquired within a year as well that very fast turnaround time for the creation and sale of two businesses. Do you have any particular lessons from that time period? Or could you just tell me like, how would we just didn't some kind of creative overly creative state or was? Is it just you had developed domain expertise and tell me how you create and sell to companies in the same year. I think the important thing important lesson that for everyone was that had started a bunch of companies and projects up until that point. And the way that I go about it had radically changed by the time. I started goes three and then perform all right? I started both of those based on a change in the world and the change for grocery was what we were just talking about right? That people are becoming more privacy aware that people needed to be able to see this stuff and that the amount of trackers in things that were going on in the in the ad tech world were exploding. So I based it upon momentum that was happening already in the market, and then built a product around that and the same thing we're perform ball, very different kind of approach. But it was the same thing. I saw something happening in the market. And I built something around that change. And the reason that that matters is that the human changed the behavior change had already happened in the in the world. I wasn't trying to create any behavior change what I was trying to do was to meet in unmet need that was in the market that had suddenly appeared because there was a shift in the market, very different than the my engineering approach to building companies, you know, before that which was you know, I just want to create a product I have an idea, and it's all idea or kind of engineering driven or it was for me. It's though then got super common for people, and it wasn't based on a change in the world. And what that means is most of the time, your ideas a wrong most of the time. If it's a new idea, you have to get people to change their habits, which is impossible to do things in your way because you have a better widget a better approach that works sometimes. But you've got to be patient and wait for the behavior change the happen. And I change my approach and that's also an starting drifts. We've probably could have sold drift many times by now. But you know, I didn't wanna sell another. Company and starting drift. I wanted to not sell this company and try to build a company for the long term and enduring company, and what I based it on again behavior change that already happened in our case, it was messaging, the mess shift towards messaging was undeniable like messaging from technology stack standpoint there's no difference from twenty twenty five years ago. You know, they're different technologies that we use. But flack is from use case standpoint is not different than our see twenty-five years ago. Right. And I often show people inside our engineering and product team who don't know what I see is never used it, you know, a screen shot of Narsey Klein from twenty years ago and then slack next each other and their balloon away though, like it's exactly the same like every thing is the same. And they have never seen that. And I'm like, yeah. That the point isn't that isn't that they're different or that? There's the same the point is that the world is now ready because of mobile because of this and not this slack amazing things with their product. And we love. But it's a ready a pattern that exists. Same thing with text messaging or I messages, or what's up or whatever like we had technology like twenty five years ago, but we had subscale markets as you know, million of us using it or five million or whatever the number was. But now billions are using the reason that matters is that the behavior changes already happened. It's now normal and now you can build something much larger ecosystem, and I think for entrepreneurs and engineers who want to build something really pay attention to is there. Momentum already in the world happening that I can apply this to versus trying to create your own momentum from scratch. I'm glad you say that because I think that's that's really important to emphasize because I've gone down a couple rabbit holes that have gone absolutely nowhere spending. A lot of time a lot of resources on projects that just nobody wants. Nobody needs engineers do this all the time. This is this might be the biggest mistake that engineer founders that make okay. So you have. You've done, Ed. So before you made that shift? I guess we'll we'll close on this question because I know we're up against time. But I guess how long did it take you in your product development career to finally acknowledge that you need to make something that people actually want rather than exhibiting your creative self and just building what you want to build. Unfortunately, a decade. And so that's why I like doing a podcast like yours and being on unshowy because I'm just trying to share what I've gone through. And hopefully, there's a person listening out there. Then I'm going to help them save ten years by listening to this story at this exact moment in time. And it took me ten years to learn that. So I learned the hard way. This is not something that I was just I knew and because we all have biopsies and all of us. And so all my by sees led me to bang my head in the wall and build things that nobody cared about for a long long time. Okay. Well, that's really reassuring to hear because I've done some of that. And it really hurts. And it makes you feel like a complete. Idiot. But it's good to hear that. You're a success story coming back from that. So if you have enough shots on goal you too can be successful. David. Thanks for coming. On software engineer. It's been real pleasure. Talking to you you want to plug your podcast real quick tell people why they should listen to it. And where they can find you. Sure, we have a podcast called seeking wisdom seeking wisdom dot IO is the easiest way to find it. And basically, it's a podcast where we just share the stuff that we're learning the books that were reading the mentors were working with. And I just try to share through myself and guests like things that we're learning and give back to other people who are curious about the learning process. Yes, I can't endorse. It myself. I subscribe to it and listen to it in preparation for the show. And it's it's great great production quality, great conversation. So thanks again. David appreciate come on the show. Thanks for having me. Go CD is a continuous delivery tool created by thought works. It's open source and free to use. And go CD has all the features. You need for continuous delivery model. Your deployment pipelines without installing any plug ins use the value stream map to visualize your into end workflow. And if you use Cooper, Netease, go CD is a natural fit to add continuous delivery to your project with Goshi de running on Cooper, Netease. You define your built workflow and let go CD provisions and scale your infrastructure on the fly, go CD agents, use coober nineties to scale as needed checkout. Go CD dot org slash s daily and learn about how you can get started. Go CD was built with the learnings of the thought works engineering team who have talked about building the product in previous episodes of software engineering daily. It's great to see the continued progress on kgo CD with the new Kuban eh. These integrations you can check it out for yourself at go CD dot org slash sl daily. And thank you so much to thought works for being a longtime sponsor of software engineering daily. We're proud to have thought works and go CD as sponsors of the show.
Episode 27 Preparing and Executing Virtual Presentation and Communication Success
"Hello and welcome to episode 27 of the medical-device success podcast and videocast. I am Ted Newell your host and I'm also the host of the med-tech leading community and I'll tell you about that and just a minute. The title of today's episode is preparing for virtual presentation and communication success with Richard Goring director of bright carbon off. The title of this episode is important because success is not just about presentations presentation technique is important and the components of the presentation are important, but it's also about communication. Brake carbon is a presentation design agency that has worked with life science companies of all sizes from small start-ups to multi-billion Dollar corporations off. This will be an excellent presentation, especially in the video cast because we have a lot of slides involved in this and the video cast is available in the med tech leaders community. So more about med tech leaders Community. Our purpose is to bring together med tech Executives and marketing and sales professionals to help each other by sharing best practices ideas Solutions and encouragement and we support this with a robust series of live subject matter events in the community. For example, right now, we have over seven hours of expert advice on going virtual in this virtual world. You can learn more about the med tech leaders Community wage. at Mid Tech leaders. Now let's get together with Richard going to learn more about executing virtual presentation and communication success off. Richard it's great to have you here and thanks for participating in this podcast and videocast think so much said really appreciate you looking forward to it. I think this will be very interesting and often as I told you in are prepared to where I'm eating that we've covered some individual components of virtual meetings and things that are important to help people with better virtual interaction better better virtual events and so on and so forth, but we haven't like put it all together in one picture and there's a lot I think there's a lot of things and nuances that we miss. So we're going to cover that today. I'm sure yeah, absolutely. Okay, so just tell us a little bit about yourself and then a little bit about bright carbon. Yeah, she'll send my name is Richard going I'm a director at Brite karbo and we're a special learning and presentation design agency. And we love to help people to create more effective presentations and that's usually through visuals. So visuals diagrams animations that explain and reinforce your message just rather than the traditional Death by PowerPoint that everyone gets subjected to and then just being able to share really cool techniques because PowerPoint is this fantastically powerful program that allows you to do all sorts of things. But you know, it could be Google Slides or it could be story line or press zero or any of these other tools as well. It's about you thinking about what your story what's your message and how your best communicating that which is perhaps even more important now with this online world that everyone has been subjected to and what your role there. I'm a director so I run lots of our training sessions and do lots off. Of that kind of sharing of different content and things like that. Okay. Okay, very good. Now when we look at going virtual, especially in the medical technology business because I think it has a bigger impact on us than it has on many other Industries in that the guidance that we have for access to doctors nurses hospitals clinics doctors offices are pretty severe especially in the United States maybe in other countries due to guidances and beige it comes down to they don't want somebody going from practice to practice to practice as you would in a traditional selling situation or hospital to hospital hospital and possibly carrying something around like a virus. So the guidance has our to discourage sales and marketing people from being in these environments. So we're forced to suck actual now we look at this as a downer. What do you see as opportunities in this virtual world? I think they're a lot really because you've got the ability to connect. With people very quickly very easily, which is great. I think the things can be a lot more efficient potentially online as well. You've of course lose some of the the interaction some of the relationship building in a way but I think as people get more used to it on all sides. It will become a lot more natural and people will feel much more comfortable with it. But you've also got this kind of great opportunity to be able to connect with a great many more people much more easily much more fluidly as well to respond to them when they are available rather than to try to book something and then things are dead because of clinics and whatnot. So, I think there are a lot of opportunities with online meetings, but often that means online presenting as well. And so you think oh we've got to do everything completely differently. That's just the may not be the case. Actually. I think that if you were to really look at it online meetings don't have to be significantly different from what you've always done. It's not a mass. Is kind of world-changing thing, you know, you're probably using a zoom A team's a WebEx something like that already for internal meetings. It's just now flipping it so that it's you know, external page meetings as well. You have the technology you have the setup that doesn't need to change too much. What you do need to do is think about the way that you want actually interacting with people and I think that that can really be very different choices. You're not there in person. It's much more difficult to kind of read the room and get reactions from people. It's not as easy to be able to share something physically, for example, of course, that's that's impossible now, and so that's the way that you are interacting with people when you're in a meeting environment I think is different and that's something that you need to consider that I thought it was pretty worth. Just spending a couple of minutes showing you some of the day from Sister that we broke up and see really between the traditional in-person presentation versus online. And if you're on the video cast maybe just share a couple of example visuals with you as well so that you can log Sense of maybe what the difference is could be. So I'm going to research before we do that. One thing. One thing I would point out is that one opportunity is to be better than anybody else doing this. Yeah, you know because a lot of people don't practice they don't prepare and in a virtual situation, I think it only exaggerated Saint amplifies that particular problem the level of unpreparedness and so on whereas if you're prepared you could really shine so one opportunity is to be good at using these different tools. So yes, go ahead and move on to like we're going to talk about some of the critical communication techniques and one in a virtual meeting for good engagement and so on please yeah, absolutely perfect. So yeah when it comes to presenting and kind of engaging with people, I think that really there are a couple of a couple of different things that you need to consider so dead. Really critical here is that you know typical face-to-face presenting environment is really made up of three course things. You've got a presenter. You've got their slides and of course, normally you have an audience that's something I with you and the same thing to be honest is pretty much true for a huge keynote presentation a smaller break-out presentation a small meeting room presentation or it's true of over at, you know laptop in a coffee shop or a clinic or something like that. It's all kind of the same core three things that and because the presenter is there with the audience in person things, like presence and Charisma and body language can really come into play. Now the presenter in this environment can do all sorts of things. They can interact with slides they can point and direct attention, you know, the presenter is typically near the slides released a month. And so the audience can look in one place and see both the presenter and the slides at the same time. It's all in the same field of view, which is great. The presenter is also in the same place as the audio's. So they can get a sense of how they're being received. You know, they can relax by looking for friendly faces in the crowd. They can change their pacing if they sense the audience as a bit bored and they can also interact with the audience as well, which is great. And then you consider the fact that you know, you're all in the same place and it's probably pretty obvious but it does have implications because your audience is in the same room as you as all The Preserve social conventions come into play. So most people in any environment where you're with them wouldn't be, you know, so rude if you like that they would get up and leave from the front row and although the audience May chood in and out occasionally they are there and they'll typically stay there. And then also the impact of all of this is really a bit different in a huge Theatre or a small wage, you know, the the people are with each other. That's the critical thing, you know, if you're doing online meetings people, maybe we'll be all over the place, you know, they're all in their own kind of separate little offices off. Kitchens or dining rooms or whatever it happens to be and so now with an in-person environment, you've got everyone together in the room and that means that they can feed off each other your audience, you know laughter is infectious implores. His defection energy is infectious. And if you chewed out but everyone else laugh as you probably tune back in a game and that's really something unique to being in the room that you can draw. I am a presenter and so those are some of the critical considerations that you would have like when you're in person but this new online presentation environment means that you know, some of that changes it changes some of those fundamental things about how presentations work. And so would you think through some of the differences you start to get a sense of what you might need to do differently. If you're moving your presentations online. So for an online representation you again have those same three elements that present to the slides the audience but now of course things look very different. So the presenter might be presenting from a stage of being streamed worldwide or they might be proud. Confirm my kitchen table. He audience might be thousands of people scattered across the globe or a few people each working from home and the slides are shown on a screen which is the same but that's anything from a large display two more years a laptop or a phone. And so with that you've got these major differences, you know, the presenter is no longer in the room with the audience. So presence becomes a lot more difficult to convey and not the most commanding speaker lacks gravitas on a small window on a tiny screen somewhere in the corner of your laptop, which really doesn't work very well present is also can't easily interact with the slides when you're presenting online. And anyway, you know, they're just displayed separately from them in all but the most professional of set up so there's no real way to point out stuff that's going on and that means that the audience you're doing both screens and video is left looking back and forth from the presenter to the slide the presenter to the side and there's this inherent tension in terms of attention when you're trying to get peacock. To focus on any one thing now things are different with smaller more intimate online presentation. So if you are just speaking to a single clinician or her team or something, you know, there's only a couple of people there but the money online presentation with a reasonably sized audience the logistics mean that you pretty much need to mute the audience. Otherwise, you get the noise of coffee parts or phone ringing or we've all heard stories of things are significantly worse, you know the idea and so you've got this kind of setup where the presenter can't really interact with the slides that really finding it difficult to interact with the audience because you can't hear anything but their own voice many people find that really unnerving the fact that there's no sense of feedback at all, because that that feedback loop is pretty much broken which is problematic and because the presenter can't hear or see the audience easily your audience will probably feel a bit liberated to be honest, you know, they can behave however they want, you know song Working from home on my laptop a presenter is competing for attention with with almost anything. I mean online shopping news on coronavirus Sports celebrity gossip. I mean everything off now someone line platforms will reveal who's focused on a different window, but it's Anonymous and it really doesn't stop anyone. So the bar to retain attention is much higher when purchasing online and finally if the audience is in a thousand different places and on mute, they can't feed off each other's energy. So if someone Tunes out they will likely stay tuned out laughter Applause or you know, interesting points and whatnot that people raise or gasp at can't bring other people back as if things are a little bit different maybe in a really small online a meeting room where you know, a few people can all stay on muted they can talk they can respond and I think will really talk about the logistics of that in a little while, but even then, you know the shortage of screen real birth It makes it really hard for your audience to participate freely when a presenter is talking because they'll probably have slides and they'll be up and stuff. And so you again can't feed off. The audience has energy quite as much wage. So that's kind of what what I'd see is some of the major differences some of the things that you really need to consider when you're moving your presentations and your meetings online sounds like a pretty big challenge. Yeah. I mean it is it's like on the face of it maybe not but it is a different way of doing things and that's the the kind of thing that you really need to consider, right? Yep. Wow. Okay, so we've got this big challenge, you know, what's different about Face-to-face versus a virtual world. So what are we going to do about it? You know, what are for example some of the basics we're good virtual Studio since many of the people that would be listening to this are probably going to be making presentations from their home office. Absolutely. So you need to consider a couple of key things and actually off all of those things really boil down to two factors. I think one is about eliminating distractions for your audience so that it's really easy for them to engage the other is creating compelling content so that you're actively engaging rather than them kind of being distracted by other things and I thought actually that's jump back to the video once again and wanted to show you very briefly something that you'll probably all quite familiar with you may have seen it by now, which is the viral clip of Professor Robert Kelly being interrupted by wage. Delightful Children when on a very important Zoom call with the BBC a few years ago. This is it scandals happen all the time. The question is how democracies respond to those scandals and what will it mean for Thursday for the wider region? I think one of your children has just walked in I mean shift is Shifting shifting Sands in the region do the relations with the north may change and I would be surprised if they do offer the marketing jobs in the region. My apologies so I mean he's facing exactly the same situation that you know, pretty much everyone is nowadays. You know, everyone's pretty much relying on home office. You said and sometimes it's a dedicated office and that's kind of great but more often than not it is it's a bit makeshift. It's for those who have recently, you know having to to start working from home. And so in fact that you have that right set up as you said that kind of virtual Studio to attend but also critically to host meetings is an absolute must so there are a few different things that you could and should consider them with all of that. I think so one of the interesting things to consider is I think first and foremost the critical thing which is not at all obvious is your internet connection because the speed that you're connecting to the internet the pipe that you're connecting to everyone else is the only way that you're going to be able to do it and if you've got really poor bandwidth and you're trying to do video then you are dead. Need to be stuttering four people and that's that's just terrible people will switch off immediately. And so check your internet speed where you are going to be doing the presenting from now, there's a couple reasons for that. So if you are using Wi-Fi, for example, which realistically most people are at home and you look at your isp's, you know, claimed internet speed wage. They may say 100 megabits per second and you go great. I'm fine, but then you are at the other side of the house from your router and there's some walls in the way and there's a big metal fridge and all these things that can interfere with the signal. So by the time you're there on your laptop, you're actually only getting one or two megabits per second so that can be problematic. So if you just go to you know, Google Google, then do a thing just to speed test and do a little utility with in Chrome and it'll do a speed test for you and you can see your internet speeds. Okay, and then the other thing to consider is don't just go with them. Your internet service provider says as your speed because they will be quoting download speeds which is great if you want to watch movies, but it's terrible. If you are trying to present to other people because it's dead upload speed that's important and upload speed is often an order of magnitude less than your download speed. So check that. Okay, and a lot of these platforms wage Zoom the teams the WebEx all of those all recommends that you have the minimum of 2 megabits per second upload speed which doesn't sound like a law but sometimes can be so check that and if your room that you're in doesn't give you that magic 2 megabits per second upload speed consider trying to move or move your router. If you can handle get a wired cable that runs through the house or whatever that happens to be that the number of people that I've seen requesting on, you know various local groups here. Does anyone have a a fifty-foot ethernet khong? Will I can borrow for example suggests that more and more people are realizing that this is a problem. Yeah, I decided to connect directly to the ethernet versus using my routers here. Yeah, and it's just it's it's so much more reliable. If you can do it, you know, why if my can drop not very often it might be once a month, but it'll be the one time that you're speaking to that critical decision maker and she's only got ten minutes because she's really busy and now you've lost it so right it may well be worth giving yeah. So yeah, I mean once you've got the the internet kind of sorted use anything obvious things and I'd say that audio is probably your first go to a lot of people like to consider video because of course you can see it but I think audio is more important because that's more jarring if the audio connection is poor, then people aren't going to listen to you as much generally what you're saying that's going to be most important. So the ideal would be to get yourself a decent wage. Prefer now with the rise of podcaster. You can get really good quality microphones really very inexpensively Thirty forty fifty dollars or something. They're all available from Amazon but a USB dedicated microphone will be great. If you on are you using right now are using a a Blue Yeti microphone. So it's on a on a blue. Mom. Just kind of over my laptop here. So it's kind of out the way down like not because the mind, you know uninterrupted on a video feed. If you have a virtual background your headset here can start to cause all sorts of artifacts and things which has isn't great. I you know, I sound a great absolutely. But again, you've got the same kind of setup. Have you well know I'm using right now. We're using the the audio from the my Mac. Let me just double-check the built-in microphone, right? So I'm using the max because when I've tried these Logitech on the camera that we're using people have told me it doesn't sound as good as my Max microphone, but I am Have you know and I do have a couple other microphones, maybe I should try that. Okay. All right, just there's a certain quality to the to the audio. So I mean in reality a USB microphone know it sounds much richer. It's more radio like gives a certain kind of Christmas and and depth to it which you don't get from an inbuilt microphone headset microphone. Will you should do the same thing most modern computers will have a decent in-built microphone set up. So I've got a Microsoft Surface Pro. It's got a dual microphone array on it. Actually. It's pretty good. But what you want to avoid is the kind of laptops the you know, the the standard things that corporate it might might send out like an old fashioned L. That might be you know, several years old in terms of its design and it's got a singing a little pin hole microphone that's you know down by the USB port or something and then it's interference there with it or the the noise of the computer find us right there and it and great so if if you know do a test app Have done that and see what people think of it. It can sound really good. But at the same time maybe not it's also much more liable to pick up noises and vibrations. So if you're typing on a keyboard right next to that microphone that's going to sound really bad for the people on the other end of the phone number of people do that. Yeah, exactly. And and it's just it's really distracting. It's not really great experience. But I mean any of those things are generally fine ideally a USB microphone whether that's a dedicated one or a headset and if necessary, the the one that's built in God what I wouldn't recommend you do is to use a phone because the calling quality is generally going to be poorer than digital voice over IP, and also the microphones on them aren't as good so consider that, you know, don't just die then because they're generally poorer and actually once we're talking about audio and phones. Don't forget to meet your phone number. Right. Now you're you're used to being in a corporate business environment and that's fine and everyone poops their cellphone their mobile, which is not a problem. But now you're at home and you may have one of those archaic things called a long line and that will probably have loads of robots trying to call you to sell you insurance or whatever. It happens to be give you energy rebates and that kind of stuff so try to mute your language and if you can or move the phone out of your space, if you're doing that just to let us again. None of these kind of audio distractions happening in the background. I put my landline phone in a box in the other room and shut it because we do get some spam calls and I can turn it off real quickly, but you would still hear it exactly and it's just it's one of those little bits ringing and they are loud and not be picked up really kind of strongly by a microphone. So be careful with that. Okay, and then so you've got your internet you've got your audio video is probably next and here I'm much happy. People using the the built-in camera so you can use the you know, the kind of the Logitech things and these are these are great as you say don't rely on the audio with them because it's not perfect. So that kind of thing is is fine. But trying to find them nowadays is really difficult. You know, I will spend a hundred hundred fifty dollars or so on one if you can find them and you'll probably can't maybe the starting to come back in stock now, so just be a little bit aware of that. But if you have the inbuilt micro for the inbuilt camera on your laptop and it's a reasonably more than a topic it will probably be fine. The key thing with any kind of camera is to make sure that you've got good lighting because even the best camera in poor lighting will be terrible. You can get rid of these kind of slightly more professional women like type setup which are great, you know, you can put on little stand just in front of your laptop and it gives you a nice kind of glow all the way around it's uniforms. Lighting it means that you're not in Shadow, but if you don't want that and again, it's difficult to find they're not expensive maybe twenty or thirty dollars or something. But a nice thing to do is get to table lamps to bedside table lamps and put them either side of your computer so that you'll then lit from two sources. It's a nice and gentle soft light rather than something that's harsh and glaring like, you know, fluorescent tubes and stuff and that will just give you sufficient lighting that that works really well and try to make sure that you are well linked and that there isn't, you know strong light coming from the background don't sit with your back to a window, for example, because then you're going to be in Shadow relative and the contrast is going to be terrible if there are lights on, you know, table lamps floor lamps or something turn those off if you've got ceiling lights and your phone camera is angled up a bit make sure the camera isn't pointing into those. So so stuff like that consider the lighting but two table lamps either side really easy and then just position yourself mostly in the frame and just make sure you're looking at the camera. Really it and and where I'm working from right here. I have pretty decent light I think from a great but there's a light directly above me and Mom had to block it with a big piece of cardboard coming out from my bookshelves because it created this big shiny place on my forehead and to eliminate that super bright reflection. I have this is a great piece of cardboard above. But it works. I'm not saying it's like, you know, the there's some wonderful memes on Twitter and stuff now where it's people taking photos of themselves for them. They seem to the external world on a webcam and then a wide shot of all the stuff that's around them that out of shops and it's exactly things like that. You do little patch jobs, like that should be able to to get through this. It doesn't really matter that much as long as it doesn't bother or concern you now that ring camera that you mentioned I've seen people use that on t v programs like news programs. One of their service advisors will be using it and I frequently see what I call ring. I yeah, I've personally I find that sort of distracting but I've also seen some small square lights chicken attached to your computer that create a warm glow of that. Yeah. I mean, it's it's the same idea. It's it's it's a multi-point light source is what you want cuz single Source just a single mom. Old will will cost some of your face in Shadow. So a nice thing about the realize here is that it's essentially got multi-point. It's kind of all over the place. So it's not going to give you that shadow point. But yeah, I mean the idea of having just two table lamps either side of you is also good because it's multi-point. And so the the the square camera gets that you attached on like bits again that you attached is fine, but just in terms of the distractions there you'll seen people on the news and it's on your 40 50 60 inch TV screen and they're they're filling it. And so you can see all the details Perfection like this. You're generally going to be viewed on the laptop or even a phone that your picture is going to be significantly smaller as a result. So I suspect people see weren't quite see those black screen sizing is important. Right? Right, right. Okay, and then the The background like is this too busy behind me. Everyone loves to have bookshelves at the moment. It seems to show off their credibility and I think it's great cuz it's you know, they you know, what you're talking about or you can have Lego in the background. Either way is fine. You've got professional and you've got not so professional but it's whatever you're comfortable with generally speaking. I'd go with something that is not distracting. I think the nice thing about a bookshelf is that it's obvious that it's a bookshelf people aren't going to be looking at all of the little details and things which is great. So I asked background there is it's nice. It's kind of corporate in a waiver of a professional welder in a way cuz it's got all the books and things with the personal family touches and whatnot in there. So it looks and feels good. And if you were in a in a home office chances are that whatever is in your background as long as it's not packing boxes and things is going to be fine. But if you're at the kitchen table because you don't have anywhere else to dead. Then saying pots and pans and microwaves and all of that kind of stuff out. There may be more problematic. But remember that a lot of these platforms now exhume teams, all of them have virtue settings. So you've now got this ability to isolate yourself from whatever busy background you have and put on a more corporate background. And so a lot of organizations now are sending these things out. So it's like here you've got your your corporate background the problem with this kind of thing though is that there are artifacts. So you have to you here just need here like this now is fine cuz you can kind of see me but if I start waving my hands about you see there's artifacts around my fingers if I bring them up a bit. It doesn't always recognize my fingers are they disappear off? And this is that point I made before about the headphones is that if you do have headphones here the algorithms for these virtual backgrounds ought to recognize people not headphones cuz they assume that suck. Background so they kind of blurs around your head quite a lot which again I find a bit distracting. So be a little bit aware of that but it is a nice way of doing it and and built into a lot of the programs offered us are like really nice professional shots of nice office spaces and things so it feels natural. It doesn't look as as kind of odd as took a beach picture or you know, corporate branded template with the company logo and stuff from the background which just feels to me a little bit odd. So something it feels natural it feels good. I think is is fine. As long as you are comfortable sharing it with people right? I've seen some people Being in a meeting setting where it's just purely a blank wall behind them. And I find that a bit Stark. Yeah in a way distracting by itself. It comes off a little cold. I'd agree with you. I think that that that can be problematic. It's maybe better than you know, the the kitchen table. That's but yeah the same time it's it's not great. Also, the the lighting is probably not going to be very good. They're the sound quality isn't going to be very good there. You might if you have a choice you might want to consider what kind of room you're in. If you have a room with nothing in it, then the audio is going to be really echoey because you're just going to be bouncing off the walls. And so if you can be in a room with soft Furnishings ideally and stuff there then the soft Furnishings will absorb some of the sound and the stuff will deflect it all over the place. So it kind of it dissipates It Off. And that means that you don't get quite the Accolade tinny quality even with a good microphone which would normally pick that up. So don't just go into you know the office and you're the only one that's on sit in a conference room where there's nothing else because now that it's not filled with people it's going to be quite accurate. It's so have something in there just to improve audio quality ideally off and you may have if you listen to the radio often people, you know radio presenters are now talking about how they are doing this broadcast from their closet or from under a duvet and they mention it because it's novelty them. But the reason they do it is because you've got all that softness there to absorb all the Echoes. So you get a much better quality sound. Okay anything else about a virtual Studio? I don't think so. I mean, those are the the cool things. If you can get them right to your internet connection speed decent audio semi-decent video and then making sure that you're comfortable. The background and the room is not kind of two echoey. It feels like that's going to get you pretty much all the way there anything else maybe blue or diminishing returns to try to do Thursday? Okay, and we've talked about some of the logistical considerations like the bandwidth and stuff like that. What about platforms? I suspect that most people are going to be having their platform chosen for them by corporate E. I am mention that you know, you're a sales rep for example with the best one in the world. You're not going to be able to choose whether you're using Zoom or WebEx or teams. It's like you have to use it. But but most of them that you heard of are generally fairly coupon. I know that after the song assume had a few months ago some organizations stopped accepting it so maybe in medical environments some Hospital networks will say no we can't do Zoom, but I think that long Short issues with Zumba largely down to zoom not promoting what they already had and so then you get this kind of free-for-all going on and now they've just made it much more obvious that they had a security practices in place and you can protect it but teams is usually pretty good zoom is very good at gotowebinar GoToMeeting web app stomach the rule. They're all great platforms. The key is just making sure your audience can get into it and if it is a critical meeting, you know, maybe it's with the top clinician in a in a facility all those lot of people that you're going to maybe try to check with someone who's friendly in that client organization. Maybe the admin has set it up or your sponsor there or whatever that they can use that platform. Just send out the meeting and assume that they'll be able to access it just in case there's some issue there and then you know your platform know your tool so that you are dead. India with any problems that they might have getting in. Oh, I can't make it work. Oh, well, you need to click this and this and this and so your guide them through that process like was when they when they come in they may be unmuted and you know, you've not got the settings right to be able to meet them when they start up. So maybe you can have an intro piece which you just you know, how everyone just welcome. I'm going to just briefly Take Em if you're not familiar with it down at the bottom left-hand Corner, you'll be able to mute and unmute yourself. You can change your microphone turn your video and if you want to stuff like that over on the right hand side, we got the chat panel just type anything even on their way. I can ask them but also unmute yourself in anytime happy to check, you know, whatever. It happens to be that are your rules to help them 30 seconds or so of that kind of intro may be useful don't make it patronising, but at the same time it's probably helpful to people that aren't familiar with the platform right then going back to preparation. It could be wise to have a brief interaction or virtual so-called call with somebody in the organization your target organization just to make sure everything does work in advance and you don't run into a problem that particular day and then another thing you and I talked about is we were preparing is back up plans so off we were both making sure we had our phone numbers or cell phone numbers in case something went down and we had to communicate additionally if you had perhaps one or two or three people on the presenting side and let's say one person was the main presenter. I guess you should have The Back-up Plan that have the main presenter goes out drops out the virtual presentation of the virtual call. Then the other people know that they have to pick up the slack. Yeah, absolutely. So so that plan of The Back-up is really important job. To know one of those gets but also taking you further. If you are in a fortunate position to be able to have other people from your team kind of Co presented with you use that to your advantage. So as I said at the start of the problems with online is just that lack of feedback that like a response from your audience and a lot of times meetings particular if they're more than like 5 or 10 minutes can be I think problematic because it can be a bit of a monologue, you know, if it's just you talking all the time. So being able to break it up a bit with other people just is great. So you don't have my for example now you age and I are talking for anyone viewing this it should feel a bit more of a conversation. Yes. I'm doing a lot of the talking here, but the the questions that that Ted is asking our home kind of that to to be Advocate almost for you as the viewer as the audience to break things up a bit so that it's not just me talking and you won't be surprised to hear that. This is all plans. So we know exactly what we're going to be talking about. All these questions are planned in advance. And that's the kind of thing that you should be doing with your team as well. So, you know who's going to be presenting on what topic or what questions they can ask even if it's just to let you as the main presenter talked about the next bit so that it kind of bricks this thing up. And then if there are lots of people on the the other side from the audience thought maybe you have everyone on mute so you can have one person from your team monitoring the chat for example all the Q&A so that they can then feed you relevant questions or interrupt does the presenter especially if you're on break from now what you probably don't want to be doing is looking like off to another screen to see a chat or to have a look down here at another chat because that just looks terrible and you don't want to be reading the chat because it's now kind of difficult to distract you and it's thing to distract your audience. So having someone there to say, oh, you know, which of this is interesting thing here. What do you think about that at the appropriate time? Is then grog? Cuz it saves you a lot of that, awkwardness. Okay, and then presentation content. You know, let's talk about the power of a well-thought-out PowerPoint. I mentioned right to the north right to the start. But earlier on that. I thought there were two things that were really critical for Success out for online meetings one is eliminating distraction having the right setting for it. And then as you say the become of the content doing that right I think is really valuable. So again, I just wanted to show you some examples of what I thought worked really well here to kind of bring these things to life. So what to me is is interesting is the use of visuals. So I think that visuals are real important in an online meeting environment to create compelling content for a couple of reasons one is that they look better, you know, if you're there in your presenting something pretty much the same thing that people are looking at is your slide content or whatever visuals you're sharing and so if that looks terrible it doesn't reflect well on your brand on your approach on your style and your professionalism. So something that looks reasonably is good. It doesn't have to be professionally designed there are lots of quick and easy ways to make things look nice, but do make them look a little bit nicer of large-scale images in the background for example work. Well, it consistent color palette works. Well using a grid structure works. Well relatively simple techniques that does not take a lot of time to do just means that you can come up with nice-looking slides and then you should also use visuals. So get rid of that wall of text that Death by PowerPoint cuz that's for documents wage and these visuals and diagrams to be able to explain and reinforce your messages and then also use animation. So I'm showing a slide right here. For example where for the most part, you know, eighty percent of it is blank. Let's just one table syringe on the left hand side. And now it's pretty obvious that there will be something else coming up but that's going to be in a moment when I click and I'm using PowerPoint animations just to paste the flow of information so long that you as the audience are not overwhelmed by loads of things coming up, but also it allows me as the presenter to talk about this one thing that you can see and everyone is focused on the same thing at the same time listening to the explanation of that thing. So you have a shared experience and then you can click and the next bit comes up and then you can click the next bit until the next and so on but you're using the animation there to place the flow of information to coordinate everyone and then you can also use animation for storytelling this idea of you know, showing something happening or contrasting a before state with a in this case of complex process with high costs and simplifying things down by removing a lot of that unnecessary stuff and then reducing the cost and how long Some kind of punch line there to talk about the the kind of the key benefit for it. So there are lots of really useful things that you can do just using standard PowerPoint that allow you to create a great-looking professional slides, but critically the communicate effectively by using these visuals and diagrams and animations now until you had a Dave already on a couple of weeks ago on the best to talk about some of these techniques as well. And if you've not listen to watch to that I strongly recommend you go back a couple of weeks in the archive and look at it because it gives you lots of really good examples wage, but one of the examples he talked about is a relatively new feature in PowerPoint called morph which is a transition and I was wanted to build up on some of the things that he'd showed you just to show you off of what's possible in PowerPoint nowadays, if you you know not touched it for a while and also show you how quickly you can create some of this stuff because although you want it to look good. You don't have more time. To be able to make it all so more fees that's really interesting transition that allows you to move seamlessly from one slide to another so I'm just in standard PowerPoint here and I'm going to go to the count tab on the ribbon and add in a shape. So let's just add in a basic square like that. Okay, then using the thumbnails and the left-hand side here. You can select the slider on and duplicate they using control and d and then on the second slide take that box and move it over to the right hand side. So so far so basic and you've now got these two slides with box and left off and a box in the right. If you then go to the transitions tab on the ribbon over on the left hand side. You'll see the two relatively new transition called morph and what it does is it recognized is that these two boxes are the same on both sides and in slideshow mode? It will now seamlessly transition from one slide to the next now that dog Pretty cool beans, but if you then think okay. Well, I got it to move but what if I were to shrink it down and maybe change the color then PowerPoint goes. Okay. It's the same box but in a different place and a different size and a different color, I can handle that and it seamlessly more from one to the next now that is a parlor trick. It's not very useful for storytelling but it shows you how quickly you can do these things. Why is that useful to you as a presenter? Who's doing something online? Well, say, for example, you have a really complicated process like this here. It's a you know, big long onboarding process for something lots of detail going on. It's a great print out. It's a lovely PDF It's a Wonderful infographic but it's a terrible slide because in an online meeting, there's just no way the people will be able to see all of this detail. It's you know, all crammed in on the slide there thus far too much and even in a large room, you know a large screen you wouldn't be able to see it but in a laptop In a window on a team's metering a zoom meeting or something. No chance when you can say here's our overall process. And now what I want to do is take you through the strategy and planning and you use that money transition to kind of zoom into a portion of the graphic and then you can move across it to look at the launch event and down to training alignment and you are now using this morph tool to kind of move around the off-ramp to show people relevant details and pieces of it. And then in this case of the end you zoom out again, and you can see the whole thing and so in edit mode to show you how this works, you know, you've got here off on one slide the entire process diagram fitting on the slide, but if you zoom out a bit, you'll see what's going on here there the diagram fits on the entire working area of the slides on the next slide. It's exactly the same diagram, but now just much larger with only a small portion of it visible there on the slide and so it's this morph transitional Okay, it's the same diagram but just much bigger and moved and will automatically do that movement and that growing and shrinking for you very simply but you have but to do is did you have to take an an image of a section of this process so you can turn it into a slide numerous there a way to grab that grabs section of it in terms of just lost that one. Let's do it life. Okay, so just to placate to the slide of moved it further in the deck so you can see that this is all brand new. So here I have this diagram it's made up of individual pictures of individual text boxes and lines and icons and all so, you know fairly easy. What I'm going to do is take this slide using the thumbnails on the left duplicate it using control and deep. So you've got two of them go and on the second side select the entire diagram and I'm just going to group it cuz it makes it much easier to resize so you can use the keyboard shortcut control and G, but Also on the Home tab on the ribbon and arrange on the right hand side and it's group here. Now. What I'm going to do is just zoom out a bit and then increase the size of this diagram as a group so that it's now much larger. And so only a small portion of it is going to fill the working area of the slide there like that move this across a bit odd that it's now just going to fill in that little piece of in there and I'm just going to increase the size of the text so that it's now more kind of to scale with what you would expect something like that their own now, I'm going to ungroup it using control and G control shift and G and now you can see I've got these setups here of the initial slide where the entire diagram is there filling that one slide and the wage and slide where I've got the entire diagram, but most of it is off the slide cuz it's much larger and you go to the transitions tab on the ribbon and you choose morph over here on the left and now you've got that sequence where wage Always from one slide and then it morphs to the next and everything kind of moves automatically. Okay, and the group came and kept everything in place. He kept everything in proportion. Yes, so it's just very easy to be able to do if you've got multiple objects like that. You don't have to do it you could do it individually. It's just that in this case. I want to give the the impression that you are zooming down to something magnifying it and moving around exactly the same thing. But you could if you wanted to move things around it. It's totally fine. It depends what your story is. What are you trying to do here wage to kind of make that work? So that's the idea. It's really great. That's a great example of how that works. Yeah. Kind of show you something more though cuz it cuz I think you can take it like really far if you want to but again, it's all very quick very easy. It's just getting your head around the idea. So here I've got another example, so say you want to do something where again you're zooming in but you don't want to lose the rest of the diagram. So here I've got a picture to beach picture but it could be anything you'd like that's details or complex. It could be, you know patient flows around the hospital. It could be, you know work flows around the lab. It could be the details of a particular device or instrument or whatever. It happens to be here. I've got this whole life around and now I want to create a magnification lens to focus in on just small portions of it and you can see here that it's now magnifying an individual bit while still keeping the rest of the content wage for context. And again, this is all achieved using morphe very easily and again to show you how quick it is. I'm going to go to completely blank slide in PowerPoint. It's got a picture placeholder here so I can cook. The picture place holder in the middle choose to add a picture or choose the beach picture again. There it is. And now with that I've got this big picture on the slide and going to copy and paste it. So I've got to keep them and the line those two pictures up on top of each other select the top picture here and then use the crop tool for the picture formats have on the ribbon and then crop over on the left hand side and crop that down using his black grab handles to focus in on just one area of the image. So the pool up here on the left. And so now that gives you this kind of chrome version of the pool now, I don't like it being rectangular like that. So you can actually change the type of crop. I'm going to go back to the picture format on the ribbon and crop over on the right hand side. But this time it's just this little drop down menu and here you can choose crop to shape which allows you to crop to any of the standard shapes in PowerPoint. That'd be wary of doing this because you don't want a heart attack. Smiley faces and stuff cuz that looks pretty terrible. But here you can choose just an oval and now you got a nice kind of ovalish type crop get I'm not a massive fan of the oval. So now you got to do one more step, which is go back to the picture format Tab and crop and this time choose aspect ratio on the right-hand side here and now you can choose the crop to any of these standard aspect ratios, including 121 square. And now you have a perfect circular crop around this pool, but for example now if you take that and you make it larger and then you put some kind of Out Lines around it either online or in this case. I'm going to go to picture effects here and just choose a shadow around the outside just now gives you this sense of this kind of, you know, floating zoom lens if you like, you know magnification lens and so if you now what to do the same trick duplicate the slide using control and the other thumbnails take this zoomed in picture move it somewhere else over the slide song. Red Umbrella here on the right hand side like that. Obviously, it looks odd to have a zoomed-in pool in the middle of the beach. But if you open up up again when it comes to cropping pictures in PowerPoint many people think that it's just about cutting away the picture and it kind of is but it's also kind of isn't I prefer to think of crop as a as a window through which you see the picture underneath and so here if I zoom out a bit you'll see there's all the picture still just grayed out. And so what you can do is instead of using the black grab handles to resize the crop window, you can move the image within that crop window to focus on something else like the red umbrella. And now if you apply the more transition to the second slide PowerPoint says, okay, this is the same picture on both sides but in a different place and with a different crop View and what it will now do is it will seamlessly more from one to the other and because birth So the picture hasn't been removed in that it will actually go through all of the various bits in between to give you this effect of like a magnification as moving across the image. So it's a great way to very quickly Focus attention on part of any kind of complex image. So as I said, it could be, you know, complex picture of a product for a workflow, but it could be a chart or a table or something a screenshot where in the zoom meeting because the you know, the laptop people are seeing is small, you know, you're there but you want to be able to focus attention on something it works really well nice home. And so that kind of thing works really nicely but you know to bring it back to something more medical and not you know beaches that no one can go to what about this. So we're talking about pulmonary embolisms. And so we got a picture of a person here. If you're using a different picture over the top same technique but a different picture now to show how that might start with, you know, clot formation around the knees for example in the vascular system and then how that will move. Rup through the system how that clock can kind of move and then enters into the major vessels and then that can go into their lungs and that causes, you know pulmonary embolism. That's really dangerous that same idea is now explaining this complex concept very quickly and very simply just using two pictures. So here are the two pictures here one there one that we got the regular person and masculine one who done the vascular win. So I'll show you the muscular system instead. I'm going to line these things up on top of each other. I'm going to take this muscular system use the crop tool. Just crop that to the top them. So you've got a thick band duplicate the slide using control and use the crop tool against now, we crop this down to the bottom like that and then you apply the morph transition to that page. And now if you look at it and slide show mode, you've kind of got the latest body scanning technology. For example, as you're scanning through all those different bits and seeing the musculature underneath gas. This this moth tool is just it's so useful to be able to tell complex stories very quickly and very easily and I strongly recommend that everyone just checks it out. Now as I said a it's a brief demonstration of some of the things that you can do to create, you know, really effective presentations definitely check out the session that ended with with Dave a couple weeks ago for more of those kinds of things as well. And if you want to Shameless plug alert, there are plenty more tips and tutorials on creating Dynamic visual slides on the bright carbon website as well. And the reason it's so important is because when slides at the major Focus, they need to do more of the heavy lifting and that means your slides not only have to look good and change frequently to keep attention levels high. They also need support what's being said to Aid understanding if people don't understand what you're saying of the slides on help them to understand that's not looking at other things. So that's why I thought it would just be useful to show off. Some of those examples and give you a sense of it and just actually to kind of Bring It All a bit full circle in terms of using the slides and the video and whatnot of the things that we've talked about I would recommend that you use a video off center but critically not where it distracts from your slides. Now, if you've got access to a green screen or can video cards yourself presenting in front of your slides then great and interests the technology for that is coming the latest release of Microsoft teams encourages that Zoom is starting to work on that as well, but it's not great yet, but I'm sure they'll do a job. But you know typically for most environments I would recommend that you use webcams for introductions for conversation, you know, like we've been doing today to answer questions, but also consider turning your camper off when you're presenting slides because it means then this just the kind of the core focus of what you should actually be doing in a much smaller meeting. You also need to consider the turning on off. All webcam creates a social pressure for your audience to do the same thing. So as a courtesy make it really clear that you're planning a video meeting when making the arrangements, because otherwise people may turn up on the not prepared for it. And that's not against something you want to be doing you want people to be really comfortable with it some of my platforms as we've demonstrated before allows set a picture as a background image. And so that's great. If you want something that you know hides the mess or a bit more corporate, but you might also be tempted to hack it a bit and upload static slides as your background, but trying to display your slideshow like that really high risk because it involves lots of changes and fiddling which really isn't ideal but it can work. Well if you really want to bring up visual for a Q&A set up, for example, where a single graphic might help facilitate a longer discussion, but as we talked about before with the preparation be aware that doing that maybe wage Automatic because of the platform you're using so with zoom for Everyone is always in a 16 my nine widescreen set up but teams which is kinda probably the next most popular one is a dynamic view of the presenter. And so there you might be cut off so that it's just your head and you'll now portrait mode instead of landscape mode and now people can't see the graphics. So be aware of what people are likely to see based on the platform you're using and remember, of course, it's not just about the slide of a technical set up for a virtual Studio when you're presenting online, you need to avoid sounding monotonous, you know people often like to script things out especially if they're doing something that's high stakes. It's a webinar stuff like that, but they you can't get away with reading a script when you're on camera. So that's really problematic. I wouldn't try to do it. It looks pretty obvious and to be honest very few people can deliver even the best script in a natural. Go away. So speak from notes. Yes. Absolutely. It doesn't have to be the slickest. Most polished thing. It doesn't have to be like the news readers you can glance away occasionally, but try to have a more natural conversation try to be responsive to your audience. Try to think about things that are tailored to them and try not to read directly from any kind of content block. Right. Absolutely. Very good. Well, we covered a lot of ground. Yeah. I just I thought it would be useful just to share some of those bits down to the MBA sure and I noticed that you were turning off your back up camera as you went to slides to keep it from being on the on the side and seeing any action on the side, which I think you're right. It does help bring some Focus to the slide itself. Yeah, it's just like so with the best will in the world. I'd love everyone to see the all the time but it's like I'm not adding anything when the slide content there, especially when it's technical or whether it's demo stuff going off like me moving around and and talking just isn't isn't great particular when it's a small window there because now you've got different fields of view that people have to look at your kind of moving back home with all the time and it's annoying or even if not, it's like I'm trying to look at the main bit here, but there's something off there which is just distracting and jerking you a bit. So just allow your audience to focus on what's important job. Which is either the slides or it's you know, a diagram or a PDF or a video that you've got playing and when you don't have that don't just put up a generic title slide or something came back to video because now you can more personally engage with people and if you can try to mix it up a bit as well. So it's not just a solid block of 20 or 30 minutes of slides. It's not just a solid block home video like this try to break it down into small chunks so that you can do that kind of thing where it's you know, five minutes of slides here three minutes of conversation here. If especially in a larger environment, maybe a polar a quiz or something as long as it's meaningful those kinds of things can work really well just mixing it up is another great way to re-engage people but make sure that everything has a purpose home and nothing is there for the sake of it. You don't want things to be distracting and one thing I notice about you and you're presenting is that you are relatively animated. Which comes across really nicely and that is a point another one of my guests. I don't know maybe six eight episodes ago Nick more Nick Morgan. Yep. He talked about having to animate yourself more to the camera because much of our imagery is sort of softened and and we don't have the same impact that we have in more present with somebody so he was talking about learning how to dance with a camera and you think about newscasters how they're always changing the angle of their head a little bit when they're talking and off so on and so forth and I've been trying to learn how to do that when I do parts of my video casts and so on it's not real easy when you're sort of a straight-shooting guy like myself, but I've tried to become more animated and yet but it is it's it is the local issue of you turn it up to 11 because there is something that that the camera takes away from you I think when you log All presented the most kind of charismatic person can sound much more muted on a camera on a a video cast compared with in person. So that's important but all just for for you as the presenter to move around a bit changes your voice. So even if you're not on camera trying to move and try to gesticulate and giving yourself some energy changing your your vocal tones quite a lot many people suggest that you stand up as well to do it because again that changes how you speak and and can be really very valuable to give you more energy to make it something that is engaging for your audience to listen to there are Potentials in historical problems with standing up like, you know, can you get a rise up for your desk or is your laptop going to be balanced on a whole box? And then does it fall over in the middle? And you know, if you've got a wired headset and you've got a laptop that's tearing up there and you move a bit too much. Does it pull the laptop off? So I'd be wary of it off. But if you can stand up get a standing desk or something and then again that just adds a lot to to what you're saying. And also then what people are viewing if you're on camera absolutely and Nick Morgan when you're talking to him virtually life. He is always standing up. Yeah. Yeah. So if you if you have the set up for it, it's brilliant to do I wouldn't say that you have to do it because that can cause more problems than it solves if you're not doing this all the time, but, you know write a professional and this is also this profession as well as there's like, you know, double double standards though, which is why yes, but but exactly there's okay very good anything else that you have to add before we wrap this up. This is really been terrific. We've covered a lot. I think just just try none of this stuff is hard. So you've heard from David from Nick there's lots of other bits and pieces as well. Just try it out. Also don't think that it has to be perfect first time out. So more for example, there's lots of different game. You can try that all the zoom interaction techniques. There's lots of things you can try that the key is to try it try to get an extra 15 20 minutes or so when preparing for a presentation to see if you can do something better with it. Ideally choose the low-hanging fruit the stuff that you can pick from kind of really quickly and really easy to make an impact on and all the stuff that you're going to be reusing over again. So it's effort that you can then compound later on and then over the course of the next few weeks months maybe years. Who knows maybe you can start to build up more of a collection of stuff home and try, you know, see what it is. Maybe try to to do it occasionally with some colleagues so that you're not trying brand new things with people kind of externally but give it to go and then make it incremental changes as you're you're building a part of your content and your repertoire for this and the way that you're directing the people. I mean if something doesn't work, maybe assess whether or not it's right for you or write for your birth. It may not be perfect. Maybe you need to do other things too. So do be a little cynical of all of this in a way and and like test it out be scientific about it. See where they you well you think works and that abandons to stuff. That doesn't work for you. Okay, very very good. Well Richard, thank you so much for being with us today. This is really terrific. Like I said, I heard a lot of ground people have a lot to think about they need to go back and re-watch parts of this so that they can try some of these techniques and and and put them in practice Yeah. So, it's all there. It's all standard Powerpoint stuff in this case. All you know standard web cams or microphone. It's really very easy. It's now applying it and getting over that. I can't hear or my audience issue, which is usually really hard right? Right, right. Well, like I said say to a lot of my guests so, you know, I reserve the right to ask you back sometime in the future. Maybe we'll have to regroup and suck. Months to a year from now and see what's happened in the meantime would be delighted to thank you. All right. Take care. Thank you so much and see you soon. Yep, Richard just did a great job of pulling together the ecosystem of successful virtual communication and presentations. Richard also wanted me to tell you about the free masterclass program that they have at the bright carbon website a link to this particular page and other links will be off. The show notes Here is a challenge. Well, I think all of this is important. I'm going to challenge you today to implement just one tip or technique off go grab a slide deck for one of your product presentations and just use the morph technique on one particular Slide featuring a particular project feature and benefit and see what a difference it makes put all of these ideas in the practice and go when your week off off.