6 Episode results for "human ventures"
Heather Hartnett - Founder & CEO, Human Ventures
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Join us and be part of our mission and provide high quality and compassionate home care learn more at caregivers at home dot biz. Let's make care better together. The hustle is a production of iheartradio listening to the the hustle. The show the breaks down how some of the world's most fascinating people have hustled and learn their way into achieving. great things. i'm your host jeff. Rosenthal co founder of summit today on the show. I had the pleasure of chatting with heather. Heartening heather is the co founder and ceo of human ventures and stage venture that backs and builds consumer technology companies. She was named one of the fifty most influential women in america. By marie. claire. The information is a further as the new breed of v. c. and business insiders pointed to human as the first female lead startup studio prior to human ventures heather incubated companies with city light capital a venture capital fund that invests in companies seeking to generate measurable social and environmental impact. She serves on the leadership council for tech nyc in his mentor to the nyc mit startup studio and seventeen seventy six. She's also a contributor to forbes and serves as the board of directors member of the david lynch foundation. Heather joins us to talk about the qualities that make a great entrepreneur. How from an early age transcendental meditation has impacted her life and how she and the team human ventures foresee the future of work. Please enjoy my conversation with heather. Hartnett and heather while the podcast. Thank you so much for having me. It's a pleasure has gone out there. it's going well. I'm downtown new york city right now. A live in greenwich village. Newark's coming back to life. It's been really kind of interesting to see how resilient every everyone's blend so excited to have you on the show. Your work has focused on the future of work for a long time which even powered through the organizations that you've been a part of most notably human ventures talked us a little bit about what you're seeing right now. Yes oh i. I run a what we call a business. Creation platform and that is comprised of venture fund and a startup studio and we bring in entrepreneurs we work with nora's at the earliest stages of when they're building their companies and we provide tools to be able to create and then we provide financing to be able to to capitalize and that structure is one of the best. It's i'm so grateful to be able to be doing it. Because what you get to do is think where the world is going to be tomorrow into expanding ten years and then you start working with founders. Who think that far in advance and and you give them the resources to be able to just built and so being around people who always see challenges opportunity who always see the world it ten steps ahead. I think is one of most aspiring things to do. Tell us more about that. So how do you pick the people that are in your cohorts who who gets your investment. Who gets your incubation time. You know i think a big pieces of human ventures is that one of the biggest arbitrage opportunities is really identifying talent head of the market and say that because for years and years cloud finance industries in metric capital particular has been really focused on a particular type of entrepreneur and it was true ten fifteen years ago notch for nora had a an archetype but as you know industry start to open up to tack and tech becomes ubiquitous. Every company has to have can bet ease of use customer satisfaction in understanding the efficiencies at technology brings the founder profile changes at the same time the arcs of you know the way that society views companies ed social paradigm apparent shifted so the consumers very conscious about what they're consuming and buying and And then the employee wants to know who they're working for almost their personal passion. Admission is being satisfied for what they're working in. So i think it's become extremely complex to the founder and way to be able to identify them is now becoming more sophisticated so at human we will generally have these that are about the world where the world's going we call it. The human needs economy. So that for us right now is the future digital healthcare and wellness and mental health. And then the future of work and how we are identifying an skilling and reskilling talent and then also communities so what companies are understanding community based healthcare community based products that that drive more than just a transaction but the drive you know that camaraderie and really affinity with a brand. So that's what we've coined the kind of the human beings economy. That's what we look for and then we do calls for founders whose building these areas who were building the next platforms to be able to bring healthcare to underserved communities etc. Sarah and we do what we call a cohort model of entrepreneurs in residence. And you like this jeff so internally. We used to say this person starting their next company. They're in the wild. They're in the wild and so we just figured why don't we actually name that. So we have a program called humans in the wild. It's what happened when a founder and if you're found are you you resonate with us because you are ensured You're saying they're saying i need to. I need to think of the next the next thing because naturally if you're a founder once founder always hungry you will always think about so when you get a group of people who are building together it creates one ten creates incredible energy totally you get this ecosystem affect you get this like our liberation is bound up together shared experience same team in same dream kind of vibe where everybody's sharing resources which when you go from like being a lonely entrepreneur to having any sort of reason for this kind of overlap with the preneurs feels like in an unbelievable wind behind you i really you know. The old saying rising tide lifts all boats it so true and the dynamics of having shirt experience creates a trust and bond that then as people have success and failures you you have this really trusted network and it takes the burden off of being alone when i also kind of like this. Ecosystems approach as like an investor too. Because you know not all companies work out. But you're making a big investment almost like helping fund a phd for these founders in like business experience right and so if you can either invest in their second or third company or repatriate those talent in resource pools to the other organizations that are inside of the ecosystem. I imagine that has a really positive return to for the fun. And and i guess that takes me to my question. Like the putting my heartless capitalist pig had on you know. How does this pencil like this. You know a lot of people who are investment professionals see impact investments in air quotes enroll. There is tell us how this works from a return profile. Yeah a lot of great things. I think you're you're absolutely right. That ecosystem is what you invest in early stage you do. This right will invest in the next three things. A founder does that. We love because to likely won't work out. You know but those founders have had those learnings so paid for them. You know again to the impact question. We specifically didn't call it an impact company when we first started. Because i think that it's become just the status quo. You need to have some sort of a mission or purpose driving. What you're doing if you're building something from scratch this you know the the trials and tribulations to to Great to not have something that drives you through those times and when you have a very coherent underlying set of values our mission you're able to attract unbelievable talent you're able to rally you know investors clients and customers behind something that otherwise people might not feel such an affinity towards so for me. I think it's a term investment play. It's less of a liability in makes the company's much more defensible as they grow so from purely capitalistic standpoint. If you're not thinking about anything altruistic louis. I think that it's it's just smart. Investing able to invest. Where do you think the state where the puck is gone. I like it. You hit me with a gretzky reference schedule. You must be a deadly fundraiser. heather. I have a. I have a total. You know. turn in the conversation that i wanna take. I'm curious just you personally. When did you start. Meditating question. I started meditating when i was five years old five years old. Okay so unpack that. How is that definitely can't take credit for that My parents so drew like mom and dad. I'm super into this stuff. This is a guy named maharishi the game independently. My parents both started meditating in their teens. started practicing. Something called transcendental meditation and in the seventies it was really popular and you know there was kind of spike in popularity. A couple of people actually wanted their kids to be able to grow up with transcendental. Meditation so i would say that we were a part of a intentional community and and In a way that our parents were just very progressive. They was this. Where was this geographically in iowa size regionally from chicago but they moved to iowa. When you're young where there are other folks who who wanted organic farming and meditation in the school systems and you know a lot of things that have come to fruition now but were not in the eighties. It was it was in hindsight right. I can't believe that my parents have that foresight. But i'm very grateful to have that early on in. It's definitely shaped the way that i i look at life. You know from from the beginning. Will i know that before you moved into investing. You were headed development at the david lynch foundation correct. Yes so my after school is any business school. And i did go out to the bay area. I started working in venture serendipitous laid. My father is not nor grandfather was not from our end. So i didn't know what business i wanted to start and so venture something. I can fell into where we had a family friend and he said well. I see entrepreneurs every day. Why don't you come analyze them. And see what could be good investments. And that was when i first got bit with the buck but simultaneously. I was out in the bay area. Avid film director. David lynch was starting a an organization and he was saying. I would like to be able to bring meditation to at risk youth in inner city schools. And so i started volunteering. What was becoming a foundation and got to know. David lynch and bob ross is executive director and eventually release fell in love with the organization and many years later ended up moving to new york and opening up the new york office. It bob in started building out the nonprofit are of tradition. What what overlaps you see between this work you know. I- mindfulness is so important. And you know. I definitely feel like my performance as entrepreneurs an internal game. You know like the work that we do internally is the thing that's going to have the biggest impact on our outcomes not necessarily a podcast we hear or talk. We listen to you. Know what is the thing that you kind of see. What's the pattern recognition that you apply from your your previous work to your current work. I think any type of meditation practice. Whatever works for you. Years should integrate some sort of some sort of that reflection for me. Tm has brought a sort of witnessing value equity to what i do. So i can ride the highs and lows with a with a certain amount of witnessing so you're not tossed about as as life can really do for you now. I'm not saying that. I approach everything perfectly but i can definitely tell the difference when i when i'm regular with my practice or when i'm not how things affect me i think investing that's a huge huge part of it. It's just can you. We just had an incredible volatility in the market. Can you stand what you're doing confusing when everybody else. Zagging can really understand your internal conviction. Because you can't you can't look to anybody else to give to give you that conviction. I think a lot of those things are kind of abstract benefits of tm. Some of the more practical just you know at a time wed mental health is so so important. Burnout is real. Live in new york city. There's never a time to stop so unless you have an intentional practice to be able to stop. There was just no way that you can control that. So i think for all those reasons. I'm grateful for it. I can always be more judicious factors. That can always. There's always more that you can do but you just of have to be easy with yourself and do it can. what's funny. You know what comes up for me. When i hear you saying that is like we're kind of in this entrepreneurial moment of like good artists borrow great artists steal and you know the copycat culture of you know hollywood right now where it's like. Whatever spiderman eighteen alike the fifth installment of the same movie with new actors and actresses. Right this it's similar like the copycat business of entrepreneurship. And i think what gets lost. Is you know when you really look at a lot of these companies that have like an original creative vision years later. They often don't really stray from that. Creative vision. I don't even remember the head space when we were building our brand identity for summit for instance and like really caring about you know the guidelines in the in the we built like an eighty six page brand doc like we worked with incredible people on our icon iconography and like you know like our language and all these things and like it's such a head space to get into and to your point if you don't have like self belief in the point of view it's very easy to tack to whatever's working right now. Just always be chasing whatever's working right now. So i can see what you're saying where it's like if you want to identify a visionary on moore say somebody that makes sense to resource into bed on to support you know in in helping sort of maintain that self belief in the vision you started with. I do think that the results actually speak to. I just always keep seeing this now. I'm like That company sold there. It started ten years ago. Or it's under new whatever it is but that sort of vision always seems to stick with these things i think it's a great point and we have saying internally it's the myth of the big idea everybody always says you come up the fabric. Come up with that idea and the thing is is that it's not the idea. Ideas are everywhere and everybody can kinda pull it from the consciousness of the moment but an executions the big part of it except for also it's just constantly being awake to where the trend is going so seeing a there's say see through the matrix like you were talking about that steadfast. You don't know the exact timing but that's where you can really have that intuition that bounces back and forth. I think best founders naturally. Do tap into this is sometimes people say you have to be a little bit in an outlier of crazy and sometimes it's not just somebody who's has that connection internally and i i love it you can feel you. Resonate with founders. Who really have that. You know to your point. The technologies can have outpacing the human condition right so we are strapped twenty four seven. We hear this all the time technology. But who's taking care of the human side of it and if you're not i joke that one of the first to atlas meditations now british thinks that the titian comes run out. Yeah it's it's one hundred percent right and that like we're over stimulated and rest it and now we're seeing some of these technologies come online that really lower the barrier for us to like get involved in something so i wouldn't say like it's it's pretty barrier for most people in their mind selects a get into transcendental meditation less they're exposed to it directly from someone that demystify whereas like you can just download com where you can download waking up and you're like right in the game you know. Each station is kind of saying that. There's one medication right. It's it's not. there's so much nuance to meditation. And sometimes some type of right for for pain management. I mean they know so much more about the brain functioning now too and so you know. Do you have an overactive magdala. Tm is classified as automated transcending in soda lousy to acquire part of your mind but in the result of that is that your body settles down. So you're getting depressed so we got enough depressed. It's that's really funny. We'll be back with more of the hustle after the break did you. That seventy percent of men don't even know different condom shapes exist. That's right we're talking about sex which means we're talking about condoms. More people should be talking about sex and condoms especially i'll trojan condoms can help keep you safe and sold those pain points. You typically experience with condoms. we're talking about things like poor fit or the wrong shape when it comes to these problems trojan here to solve them with their new variety. Pack all the fields. You can try a bunch of different condoms to help you find the perfect shape the perfect fit and the perfect sensation. It includes three different types of condoms. The classic feel the thin feel and the full pleasure feel experienced less restriction with pleasure field the more sensation with the thin field. Are you more of a classic. Feel the thin feel or full pleasure feel head on over to walmart and grab a pack of all the fields to figure out what feels best for you. The demand for quality in home care is at an all time high and now home watch caregivers offers you the opportunity of a lifetime to own a location in one of the most profitable sectors of the next decade. If you've got an entrepreneur mindset home watch caregivers can provide you with the company structure. You need to succeed. Join us and be part of our mission and provide high quality and compassionate home care learn more at caregivers at home dot biz. Let's make home care better together. Talk to us about the future of work because we've talked around it a little bit but i want impact that further because i think that's something on everyone's mind. Yeah definitely the the feature to us. We have four categories that were most excited about and we say unsurprisingly into the future work as human so the areas that we are really excited about one newark armaments self explanatory. We have you know we're not going back to the same way. It was and the the next one. I'm excited about recalled. Lifelong learning the education system is going to be changing online. Education could be just as sufficient. I think people are going to think about certificate programs a lot more than four year college education if that gets them. The job revenue-sharing i essays are becoming income. Share agreements would become something. That's more popular so all those structures lifelong learning. What is not what what is going. Come share agreement income Agreement is just basically that Can you have a discount on an education platform certification course in exchange for sharing your future her future portion of your income and i think people have tried this for a different various ways. Another public companies like lambda one job easy. That's coming up. People are dead finding ways that you can ensure an increase in your income coming out of certification program and for that you're willing to rep share essentially your future income and he is really interesting. You're betting you're betting on people picking stock on in people in. That's been a thesis of mine for a long time. The third bucket. I love is we call redefining the resume so for so long. The resume bank. Dan were you've worked is what defines you and i think that's definitely going to change the career ladder so to speak is now looks like lattice and at what point. Are you mapping your skills to a whole new career. People change a career now three four five times in their lifetime as opposed to a previous generation. The last one is worker wellbeing. So how is your company organization. You're a leader. How how is your mission. Satisfying what is it. What role does it play in your your employees life because there's a lot to now so those are the areas that we're really excited about. We have eighteen founders right now in the humans in the wild program who are tackling various Challenges around those for forbid buckets. Let's talk about access in of like you know who is getting these investments. I don't i might be setting you up for you know something. That's embarrassing so i hope but i just know anybody personally. I imagine that you're very thoughtful about investing in diverse in gender diverse in economically diverse international entrepreneurs. But talk to us about how human is democratizing. That access to founders. It goes back to his in philosophy that you're talking about that it's not even it's the right is the right thing to do. Definitely be quality and we're so far from from equity and in quality the this is also where there is so much opportunity because they're investing in underrepresented founders or underfunded areas. That's where you've been had the most leverage with your capital. So i absolutely think that it's an incredible business decision to diversify your talent pools where you picking founders from. What attributes are you looking for a. It shouldn't be they all went to excellency college. And that's you know social proof that there will be a good entrepreneur. It's just not that's not. There's no correlation there so you really have to do the work to say what are the founder traits that were really looking for in their communities. Are there areas or network nodes that we can tap into to identify founders who are in those different types of areas. That's a great. We'll talk more about that. So what is the example of a network. Node that you tap into well. We talked about philanthropy early on and one of our personas that we talked about internally is can the phd in life. Did you start A nonprofit organization about a lot of women. Actually who are phenomenal. Operators is sometimes. It's easier missouri nonprofit than it is for profit in society's view so you know we invested in phenomenal woman. Megan o'conner in the non profit space for a long time. She decided she's a part of it. Applied her talents to the education sector and we invested in her company. That was bringing technology to tutoring an education and that persona of founder might not have been a typical tech investment prior. But because we said what you know how to do a lot with a little you know how to sell your vision and investors and all sorts of sheets. She knew how to sell and she knows the skills needed for her company. So you can be really thoughtful about how you're mapping skills than you can find talented founders in a lot of different places you know about network nodes more than anybody with some community is who are those carriers people people who embody the values that value and can you then have them kind of recruit and curie founders to to come in and you so that's what we do. We do our our application process. We'll see three or four or five hundred founders who are applying for these twelve spots and and then we picked the people who we think are going to be phenomenal and were very careful about. The construction of the class is their diversity of thought background of misty. You absolutely don't want much thinking your company so imagining that like you know there's listeners. Who are you know. p- i. I think they're more great ideas out there than we realize i. I've heard i heard so many awesome ideas. We all have different ideas as entrepreneurs for things that we could pursue if only we had the time or bandwidth and often just like building. The consortium of people. But i'm just curious to like. I have an idea that i have some conviction around. I haven't started a company. Perhaps i'm in a habit corporate job or you know. I run a non profit or i'm in a nonprofit but like i have an idea for something that could be market based solution that can scale grow support myself my family and have a positive world impact so take us through some of the steps if you found me. I'm raw talent. I got all the building blocks. But i mean I'm clueless in terms of what to do next with this there. So many resources out there now for people who are hanging about being a founder find some founders that resonate with you and see how how they think and then in their programs of just being with other people who are like my life that there's one called day one there's one on-deck their their communities so that people can bounce these ideas of each other but then more importantly can you start inner testing iterating idea to see if it comes to something taking something from nothing and then there are incubator programs there. Are you know. There's just so much out there that you can start testing your idea and putting it towards but i i see the world in terms of people so i just say throw your idea against the wall against as many people as you possibly can to get all of the feedback and and then just start to watch built and then once you get that traction you know then people will find you. Art of the hustle will be right back after this short break. Hey everyone it's cody. Cohere you may know me from vine youtube or is the co host of the tiny gang podcast but my brand new podcast. The pleasure is ours. Presented by trojan brand. Condoms is out right now. Join me in a celebrity guest on each episode as we try to right. The wrongs of bad advice on topics ranging from work sex social media. Here's a little preview. What do you seek out in a partner. I want someone impressed by what i do. Which is so unhealthy. I want someone impress that. I'm on this show. With cody co that's big. He's got a trillion kajillions followers on whatever app these ding-dong on tiktok. Now whatever it is being or whatever the kids are on my advice to you right now go listen to my podcast pleasures hours on the iheartradio app or wherever you get your podcast. Let's be honest folks. We need to talk about using condoms and sex. It's often treated as taboo topic in that. Leaves people with a lot of questions questions. Like what condom-shaped will feel best for me. 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It's good and it's in the right direction but once you start moving on it you realize that there is like a ton of hair on it right like there's just all these things you haven't considered all these complexities that you haven't put together. And then like no. What the businesses or the non profit or artistic project. It's always just like longer. You assume at first you know. We always underestimate what we can do in three years. And overestimate what we can do in one and you know like i definitely think that you know like for us our with our summit journey we were always really open with are dumb ideas in fact we celebrated them and then you know someone would catch us you know about that talking about it and then give their interpretation or what could work even better and so i think that additive process of like getting to get into a cycle with other people that think entrepreneurially is really really helpful and like the truth is is that most people are risk adverse. You know and like most people that are successful. Pay someone else to help them with their investments to be risk adverse for them right. So it's it makes me happy to hear you talking about you. Know the type of psychographic that you're looking for in the entrepreneurs that you support back was a good point for you. I mean i would turn the question over to you to you. Have seen more founders than than any anybody really. You've created assembled. Such incredible group founders. That was the genesis of summit. Do you see some attributes that you didn't maybe didn't even know at that point. The that's what everybody embodied because at heart tell the bathwater is one. If you're in it have you think about that. Can you identify that energy now. Better because you're around it so much. I would say it's just so different. You said risk tolerance. I was such a cowboy in. So i also am you know hesitant about recommending high high risk tolerance. I almost see it more like being comfortable with being naive in like one. You have to be naive enough to like go into the business and then when you talk to people both your potential customers potential advisors to find the questions that you need the answers to you. Don't know what to ask right like you've just never been down the path. There's like people who've been the game thirty years like you haven't seen shit. There's just no way you could so you know that that beginner's mind that willingness to share what you need like if you said like hey jeff Great to talk to you everything's awesome. It's like okay. Well what is there for me to do in this relationship. Like if you're not willing to say like hey i don't know how to solve this thing and then i'll be like. Oh man i can't wait till like be actually useful and beneficial and you know keep it sorta this triangulation of goodwill this favor economy moving forward in an ecosystem. I love that founder. Economy that's a great way of putting it. We we try to invest portfolio of givers. Because if you have this reciprocity amongst that group of people it's only net positive so we You're absolutely right. They're always going to be individualistic people. Who win. But i think in the long term if you're investing in people who know how to get back to that community it's just a longer term view boy and it's more fun and the seizure and like you don't have to do all the work yourself and i wonder if it's different times in people's lives do like you're more individualistic when you're earlier or maybe not because need more sport and then as you as you get older you understand that it's a long life. Why love the the term that infinite game you know like infinite games. They never end. There's not like a beginning to end a winner and loser and you know. I think if you take the sport metaphor like you're mentioning you know fit. I you want to hit the game. Winning shot be the star player. And then you're like man that's really not scalable like you can build stone. Buildings not skyscrapers where you're the key man or woman because like your time isn't scalable so then you have to learn a whole other skill set which is like managing strategy scaling a business and then you realize that like there's just always a factor above the sport or the game that think the iran. So i've just i. That's my favorite part of the entrepreneurial. Journey is just like you know. Kind of like inner discipline multidimensional multidimensional chess in the sense. You know it's like just just the most fun most sort of intellectually challenging game and like there's physical limitation if you're if you're lucky you know like certainly like there's there's if you if you if you don't have any sort of mental issues like you you don't you know we all cap out in. Pro athletes are really pro. Athletes like they are top. One percent physical human specimens to begin with the mental game in. Oh so so you know for us for all of us. You know human humans out here you know. This is the thing i'll say. Is that like plenty of like not that brilliant people that are way more successful than us like it's not a direct correlation with having to be like a genius or having to be like the most likeable person in the room. Plenty of very normal people that have had a good idea and absolutely crushed the game. I agree. I think if one quality that i that i think is is just massive insatiable desire to grow it's just constant growth and roast is not is not always comfortable right but i think we and i see this company can only grow as fast as the human. So you asked me about meditation to like if you're on a journey of self actualization you're constantly going to be asking curious asking those questions. Every investor talks about it in different way curious you know rapid Raider growth whatever it is but it's really the quality that you don't know anything in this moment you less than you did ten minutes ago. It's still asking that question all the time yup totally and for you what what are you. What are you seeking at this point like. What are the things that you hope to bring more of into your life because a bunch of it i think by personal impersonal. Why is really picking stock in people. It's it's how can you give resources to people who think are best suited to be the catalyst to bring us into fruition. There's nothing more satisfying than backing somebody with. Nobody else sees it yet. And if you really good at this for for multiple decades. So i could kidding myself here. But i've more than once felt that gratification of understanding. Somebody's value before the society proves it out social for it and giving them the resources to be able to build on it. And then you know the x. So satisfying i love it. And so if there's any way that i can play in small part in being a boost for for that genesis of an idea coming to fruition being company s why is the commercial aspect of how to do that as a job And i also love to see what new things entrepreneurs are tackling. When i started investing when i started adventure impact. Investing wasn't even a thing. I was investing in now. The leapfrog that where it's just if they really conscious founder In on paper what are some of the most successful investments that you guys have made so far like what are some of the standout companies. That's a good question we have. We've known the founders of skin for a long time invest in their company weep on kevin minhsiu from news. she's also part of community. We seated varela stages of a company called current which is smart banking platform. That's grown phenomenally. Well a lot of our companies are still early. So they're not household names yet but they're getting their tiny organics is a baby focusing on or a great. Oh when i'm very excited about. Its paloma health and their digital health platform for testing and diagnosing viral challenges. You know they've created incredible community based healthcare plan for an increasingly diagnosed disease and it's it affects in disproportionately affects women so something that's near and dear to my heart ed's home they're growing rapidly so those are the types of investments that we make an founders that we back that's awesome. That's really cool Well i really appreciate you taking time to be on the program and i really have always been inspired by not just the work that you do and the creativity that you bring to it. But you're just awesome every time that you're ever in a room where people always feel better feel brighter. You're a true peace heuer. It's pretty incredible. I've never seen you seem like your heartbeat is up whatsoever in yet like you've been constantly increasing speed while decreasing tensions since we've become friends so it's it's it's been a really remarkable thing to see and i just i'm a big fan of yours. It's incredibly kind of journalists Day will reiterate that said this before but the community that you've built really. I attribute anything in my career. You know ten years to the community the people that you curator amazing and the intention that you have you started summit religiously through everything you do every iteration of what you so. I'm honored to be a part of the community and talking to you today or honestly. I think like your parents in iowa on the organic farming in mindfulness tip. I don't think summit really. Was you know author of that. Ethos i think it's more of a generational ethos of like our generations entrepreneurs wanted those priorities. Listen if it was nineteen eighty eight. I'm sure i would have been on some fox shit right you to pursue a whole other lifestyle like we wouldn't have the same inputs we wouldn't have seen sort of like the excesses that bring you know happiness right like so so ultimately. I think that we got really lucky that we had great mentors early on it. And and you know i think that like you're talking about Skating to where the puck's going it sounds like you grew up at the iceberg that ended up becoming the rivers right like it's. It's incredible that you've had this exposure to these things that are so important to so many people that we care about. You know for so long. I really do hope you. You know incredible success with human. And anything else you do. Thank you very appreciate it. For more podcast. Iheartradio visit the iheartradio app apple podcasts. Or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Holiday season means stocking up on some essentials like decorations and an ugly sweater with the bank of america. Cash rewards credit card. You can choose certain. Three percent cashback online shopping. The essentials have never felt more rewarding visit bank of america dot com slash more rewarding to apply now copyright twenty twenty bank of america corporation at american public university. We believe higher education is not one-size-fits-all. That's why we offer two hundred modern programs that build on your knowledge and fit your schedule because we believe universities should adapt to the needs of students not the other way around american public university within reach without limits. Online classes. start every month. Learn more at american public. You dot com.
"And so the simple frame was. I was asking myself. How could i take what. I know how to do and help you. An order of magnitude more entrepreneurs and that has become the sort of fire seed for what they want is the building they wanted to be. Welcome to the future business. Show where we get you in front of your best audience and cape. They're not only. Are we interviewing the biggest names in business to help you become even more successful. We're inviting you to book your spot on the show to help you grow your business so at the end of the cold make sure you fill in the interview application format my future business dot com ford slash interviews and welcome back to the future business. Show it's rick nash. or i'm your host. And i'm also the luckiest person on this planet to be able to host the show and talk with incredibly talented individuals who are making a difference in their world for those around them and just want to say. Thank you for all your wonderful feedback. It's great knowing that the show is making a difference. Fear now with all that being said welcome to the show andrew hutton. Rick thanks so much. Rob excited to be here. Yes now for those who don't know much about injury you absolutely soon. We'll he is. The founder of a organization called day one and we are going to be talking about a whole host of entrepreneurial related topics but before we do that andrew usual for us to stop and talk a little bit about families as the individuals themselves away from the business. I'm wondering if we could. i guess. Start off by telling us way you're located in the world absolutely I am here in brooklyn new york been a new yorker since two thousand twelve or so so getting up tonight ten year mark milestone and. Yeah been here. Through most of my crew transitions from a consultants to the startup world. To now in the last just under a year now launching day one and testing now we often want to talk about the private life intensive of any recreational pursuits. That you have. Do you enjoy sports. Do you do anything like that. Yeah absolutely honestly i. Sports are fun. Big part of it. i feel In the sort of pandemic life that we're hoping nearing the tail end of it's It's been There was that time over the summer where everything shut down. And then and then things came back. It was It's been a good reprieve if you will to sort of Rally around in sort of have escaped but yeah love to get outside Here in the city. It's always fun. Just walk around the block and just sort of see all the you know the dynamism of the of the city happening my part of brooklyn or back into manhattan and hanging with friends and going to you know all the city has to offer sort of baseline though that has been much harder this year than than usual absolutely so that's obviously global experience unfortunately now given that we've talked about a little bit about the pandemic like to talk about that little wallet in terms of how it's affected people don't renew journey sped. I'd like to understand more about how it was today. One by guess your own entrepreneurial journey which would you be able to share bit about that with us. yeah so my entrepreneurial journey started at the firm. I was working at for fear so years before launching day one so i had the great fortune to work at a really top tier venture capital firm in new york city human ventures and human ventures is a startup studio so you know adventure studio And you know. The business models is unique. I work because there's a lot of venture studios in their growing in popularity binds the The way the model works is we would be building. The startups eventually invested it. And so it's a venture capital firm with with with building at its core. its core function. I was brought on twenty seventeen To be part of a very small build team and so we were essentially in conceiving and designing and testing and launching startups on repeat. That was our business our thing to do yup and so over the course of two and a half or three or so years I got a lot of reps in. I was able to really crack this. All the steps in the build out my toolkit and all the all the entrepreneurial muscles that go into starting a business i being the player coach guiding these entrepreneurs in these businesses through their early days and so it was really getting those reps that i got to see. This is how a business bill. This is what's hard about it. This is where you know. Even very experienced founders. Start to you. Know this is where their gaps shine through and this is how different entrepreneurs do this differently so it didn't take long for me to come away with a somewhat unique perspective of how to help founders from zero to one in the very beginning and then fast forward a little bit to the beginning of this year it was you know actually pre pandemic And i was just thinking about where to. How can i take what i've been. You know this this unique set of skills if you will and how. Can i help more entrepreneurs right. I was getting a little. You know starting to realize that entrepreneur venture capital right venture capital as an industry. You know a driver of innovation a force for good but in the end really only serves and really only as fit for a small slice of the entrepreneurial pie like a really small slice of the entrepreneur pie and the vast majority of entrepreneurs on anywhere near venture capitalists not in silicon valley. They're not in new york city and so the simple frame was i was asking myself. How could i take this. You know what. I know how to do an and help. You know an order of magnitude more entrepreneurs and that has become the sort of fire the seed for what they want is is building they wanted to be. Yeah i've been looking at your journey on your website and there's some great feedback on there and You doing some great work now. I wonder i often think about this thing. Can a lifelong employees become a successful entrepreneur. Do you think. I absolutely think so. And and it's obviously the more ingrained you are in being great at a certain thing. Yes it's harder to then take a lead to go try something else. But here's a sort of reality that whether your a twenty two year old college grad or sixty two year old You know seasons Career worker. It's that were not taught entrepreneurship really anywhere. Whether it's in school or in our jobs entrepreneurship most of the skills and most of the mindsets in the muscles that you need to be an entrepreneur. are not taught anywhere are anywhere. Every entrepreneur has learnt them on their own and it sai- an- it kind of boggles my mind that you even business schools almost especially business schools. They're teaching to go back to that career and had climb out ladder a little faster right in so and so no. I don't think it matters whether you're twenty to thirty to forty to fifty anywhere on your career because all offer some entrepreneurs learning from scratch And you could say you know. A younger entrepreneur has less to unlearn. Berry true maybe closer to new technology. That's exciting But an older entrepreneur has lived experience. They know what's wrong in an industry or they've gone through life and no problems and think you know needs that need to be filled in so so really. There's there's definitely no one spot that says. This is where entrepreneurs must come from your perspective. Isn't it it's. It's one of those things to talk about. Technology later on as it applies to entrepeneurship and starting a business but we all know that when we start a business that things do get tough. And i wonder where am onset. Should be in some of the things that we should be thinking thinking about when things aren't going your way what what's your take on that my first my first reaction to that is is entrepreneurship is going to be in building. Anything new is going to be not only will be a new thing for you regardless of where you're coming from it'll be a hard thing and require resilience It's a function of the fact that you're putting something new into the world and the world's whether it's a market or a set of customers or whatever it might be has inertia they don't want new things and yes you know. You're trying to the goal of an entrepreneur is to create that new thing that solves you know scratches on the edge in that people just rave about when they know it but but no. There's there's a lot of inertia to the world's new things don't get adopted you know easily and immediately and You know i i started. I started to tell him. Orcas i feel this. You know even not even quite a year into building day. One that it's going to take a longer than you think. And so mentally prepare Mentally prepare for that. are nancy. Prepare for that and And and yeah. It's going to be longer. Which is i think. The first thing it's also going have many more ups and downs than you think and definitely need to have whether it's routines or the people around you to to help maintain it and And yeah it's It requires a lot of resilience I also think it has to be quite as hard as it is because you know everything just said is about building in the wild right. It's it's about this sort of the. We understand that entrepreneurship is this lonely experience. But let's maybe ask provocative question. Does it have to be right as it have to be. That lonely canopy easier again. I don't think you absolutely cannot reduce away all the difficulty of a launch manure ship. There's no way this can become a cookie cutter process As much as we'd like it to me but you know there are ways to kind of fill those gaps and at least give entrepreneurs a better shot of making it and being successful along the way joking about tom. The people ranji there. And i think that's a good segue into the i. Guess much of the core of this. Kobe we'll come back to that very thing in a moment. But i'd like to ask you injured. Humans inspires you at the moment. Who that's a great question. It's now you know. There's there's a lot of entrepreneurs that don't jest go along with the flow. They sort of speak truth. And they kind of cut passed the you know the narratives that are out there and i don't know that the height cycle. There's a lot of hype and entrepreneurship. And and i Yeah and i gravitate towards folks who can who can sort of see past it's Honestly there's it's really folks. who are you know them. I'm immediately thinking of some collaborators who i've come into. I've come to know and building day one because you know people are supportive. you know. there's a few folks Again under gonna throw names. You're not gonna know them howard gray. Brian dow jesse morris right user people in my kind of coroner who have been along for the ride Who you know when. I get them on the phone. It's it's half therapy half strategies and be guys you know they They speak truth. They they are. They're commiserated because they're entrepreneurs themselves and and and yeah they they. They know the game enough to look. Past the hype. And it's very grounding. That's very refreshing to hear that. Because you know it's not necessarily these high flying Heart you on mosques. Or jeff bezos like there's other yeah and you can take some some you know into the way yuan kind of doesn't care the way you know. Jeff bezos. Was you know just so methodical. And strategic but You know i find. I don't know. I'm just drawn to a form of entrepreneurship and like the people doing it. That that are just that much more real right. Who who don't hype as one of the words but it's even even yes needs to be strategic and you need to sort of brush it off and not care but no entrepreneurs are just normal people right. The majority of us are not gonna be celebrities along the way doing extraordinary things now but we can create lasting businesses wealth great impacts green. You know solve people's problems and and yeah. i feel. There's a new narrative for entrepreneurship that we're trying to be think apart. We're not the only voices saying this is wonderful. There's so many links to fair the compensation that are going to have with you and it going back a couple of steps with the people that you surround yourself with you. Have this this idea of ship. I wonder how this came about and why it's so important for the things that you're doing at day one. Yeah it it really is at the bottom so important. The idea that we're bringing together entrepreneurs to go along this journey ends and it's it's by design right. I thought a lot about okay. You know in my my days post team adventurers and we'd probably go coach. Some founders could probably go be a guru or have a roster and be an do that that could be my business and you know one. I didn't like how unsaleable that felt soon right. I wanted to actually reach many many more entrepreneurs coaching as as important and greatest coaching and therapy are. It's expensive and models that help Get get more folks more access. And i think they want is that the idea of the the community does drive that scale ability but ultimately. I don't know everything that you need to know as an entrepreneur. I'm i'm a good coaches is usually good and ask the right questions being a mirror and a sounding board bat. I think. I'm pretty good if you want to go. Deep with somebody who you know. Navigated all the regulations of setting up a healthcare business. Or you want to talk to somebody. Who's a growth marketer. If he was. You know amazing at reaching suburban moms or something like that. That's not me in particular. I know enough to be dangerous but right now. Probably but i'd say my biggest advantages. I know enough to bring the right people together. Let's get more people around you and so so ultimately the foundational idea of fellowship is that there's a debris everyone has this diverse diverse set of experiences in. Everyone has something to give whether it's a bit of advice from their corporate career whether it's a connection to somebody whether it's Yeah just bit of wisdom or even a shoulder to cry on or brainstorm with bringing people together is the catalyst and it's the ongoing catalyst right. If you build a relationship with somebody not only way know help you grow inside of you know eight week program like day one. But they'll be with you down the road right. It's the gift that keeps on giving and so and so. Yeah we know we're kind of helping people build really long lasting value and foundations when we when we bring them together and fellowship is just one of the best words for it right because more than community it's more than just a class right. It's yet fellowship. That's excellent. i've not heard before you often do hear community at such a a worn out statement. Isn't it community leaders community. It's bland and boring. Almost it is and it's instant because community one at you're right. It's just been overused and twenty twenty. You know the the world's that i or the you know the circles that i follow on twitter in the news you know community had it had a peak because you know we all lost a lot of our community lost a lot of our contests and our connection and and so we needed to find ways to get it back and there are a lot of builders inside and outside of silicon valley creating tools for communities or new communities. But there's something about having purpose not just purpose but you know functional direction group of people. So we're here for reason right not just because the same in a certain way or have certain likes but we have certain goals and and if you can make the if those and if if the people together can achieve those goals better together than apart then you have something special i think. Then you have something worth getting into and you can attract people and you can attract more people and better people And that's that's that's what we're trying to build so it. It is a special type of community. But we try to get you. Try not to say that because then we got lost in the shuffle when when you talk education also like to get the founders perspective on how important education is and what is your your modus operandi. I feel like four. Educating yourself in should it be an ongoing process. I love that question and i. It's something that you know. I think about a lot with with day one because you know as much as they want a functional community a fellowship for builders entrepreneurs building something So much of what helps an entrepreneur. be better. well it goes back to that. I thought which is everybody. The first time they build something for some of their founder is a novice every time. And so you have to go up a learning curve and so especially for entrepreneurs we're always learning right and we're learning the skills for the first time and then once practice those skills if we're gonna go innovate in a new area or build something new. We have to learn about that new thing right so i'd say more so than you know. The public writ large entrepreneurs need to be lifelong learners needs to be curious to a false in In an it's curiosity mixed with you know. I call it rigor it which is sort of very curious but also skeptical right. Why is that must be true right. That's the me understands what's going on here so curious but then Not just sort of a dilettante but very very rigorous in in what they come no and and how they might do something about it but but yeah personally. I think i've found that hack. Which is i get to talk with. Dozens of entrepreneurs seems weekly. Whether it's folks who are asking about day wine or coming through our our application pipeline Or just in. I continued to recruit mentors into our program and so in so i have my own version of day one in the building of day. One which is bringing you know by my own fellowship together and and you know i i say all that. But then i also know bats. I struggle with being. You know an open and honest learner right. You know you know the caveats. Everything i just said is that an entrepreneur has to be a believer. It has to sort of put their blinders on and say i know this to be true. That's pretty dangerous right. And in and i follow that. Sometimes i'm like okay. I must be the kind of owner of this passionate and this vision Where it's It's much more important to sort of be the not naive but a curious person who who who wants to know right instead of just living in the status quo. So i think it's i think it is people in conversations of the best ways to learn in having more interesting ones and having In in in leaving space not being the talker but the listener as often as possible I know there's a book out there. That's probably good article. But part of what i that goes into again. That's kind of a belief that cultivated over the last Six to nine months is is there is more than an overload of written and recorded information out there and it's much more about how you were contributing to it so but i'm not gonna get too upset about it but it's much more important to digest it and batting around with people and internalize it and put it into practice. So you know. I think think that's a great because you've talked about being curious and willing to take risks and all these things but then what about application and what about accountability. how does that play a part in your fellowship. It's yeah i. I appreciate you taking me there because the learning is eighty percent putting what you maybe learn. I use air quotes around that of what you've heard or understood putting it into practice Especially when it's a properly new thing whether it's again that new skill for you or a new problem you're solving Yeah you have to be doing it. You have to be practicing and It is pedagogy. The pedagogy behind our program is to turn Is to takes the guesswork away In terms of what to do next autumn entrepreneurs find themselves neither in analysis paralysis or uncertainty. And so they don't do as much as they should but entrepreneurs really should be engines of doing and learning therefore by doing and that's what we get founders to do inside of day one take away a lot of guesswork and say we're going to guide you through the steps that we know you need to do we know will be foundational for your business and we know as you do them and do in community with others and ask both good and dumb questions and interact with people who are at your same stage and people who are few stages ahead of you that you're gonna learn In it's the best way to do it I remember back to my grad school. Learning design thinking for the first time. And the only thing i remember is the studios where we put it into practice right and And all the all the things. I learned along. The way has put sultans and then a builder It sucks up over time and in my it feels like my job is just to get people to do the things that i know they need to do and you know cognitive dissonance or load when people are not sure what to do next or you know. Just help them take that next. Step it it. It really starts to bre- breed a will write it creates a kind of compounding effects. Is something that i'm taking from this. It's it's an uplifting environment with like minded individuals trying to achieve an outcome that they to be helpful. But it's also a safe environment would you. Would you agree with that absolutely so much of learning and again it's the it's it's a fundamental essence of entrepreneurship that you're going to fail. If if if you were only doing things that you knew would succeed. You wouldn't be an entrepreneur because you wouldn't be doing anything new so so you absolutely are about are about to fail and it's only folks who understand that failure is not fatal and i i mean like really understand it that they then take the risks. So i mean are the first week the first module in our program is getting people to ship something something very simple a little essay about themselves but get them to get it out there and there's actually zero chance of failure but we want supremacy. Get folks practicing the motion of launching in and putting things out so that you're getting it feeling it and it's not failure literally cannot fail but they might have a few crickets right. It might not feel like what they thought it would feel like but they need to get over these humps of what is what is what are people are gonna think will anyone like. Hey what's it gonna be like and and just starts and so That's foundational to our program. And and yeah. We criticize space inside the program we create Are the folks that community that fellowship of fellows no reaches outside the program and everybody is cheering each other on. It's like having your own. Yeah it's like having your team in your cheerleader squad all around you As he belts are like shipping. Your idea and concept is not new but actually getting that done and then ultimately you contributing to guess you'd call it perception management absolutely it. It's it's it's been it's been bandied about a bed. Maybe marcellin this year than i've ever seen it before but but yet by building in public you both you both create momentum and create accountability for yourself but you also create fans or you might create customers or you you create you get feedback and it. Noth- nothing good happens on the safe side of shipping. That thing nothing. Nothing has learned. Nothing earns again found fundamental entrepreneurship. All the values on the other side of that on the other side of my conversation with somebody you don't know on the other side of putting that thing and so and so really day one is about getting folks to ship and interacts. That's it there's still it down ship interact and being loving this coal andrew. Thank you very much opening up now. I wanna talk a little bit about the type of entrepreneurs that the program would attract. And i asked this because i think to myself if somebody's a an early stage entrepreneur there in the startup phase. Where this starting to plan and put together a business idea. How important each progress planning if that person is that the type of entrepreneurs that you work with. Yeah it's a really great question of the first thing that i r- i that that powers me. That fuels me is to create a space entrepreneurs many types right in to be fair. That's not necessarily good executional advice. It's all about focus. It's all about having one customer that you sir but part of our mission is to be a place where not just the founder of the silicon valley db show. You can go right. You don't have to be in a hacker house in silicon valley to be to be day one founder. So and i'd say the first the biggest thing that means is you don't have to just be building technology rocket ship right. You don't have to just be building a new internet and to be a fit. It's day one is really here for all the different types of entrepreneurs when they're building a coaching business or an agency. And it's a services business whether it's a physical product whether it's food or new suitcase whether it's technology but maybe not intending to grow that big or that. Fassino technology has you can build micro sas. You can go all sorts of different ways marketplace. There's there's really every kind of business. And the reason why that diversity fits day one because at the earliest stage at the fun at the seed stage. And i and i mean that literally at the very inception the station. Everyone has to do the same stuff you know and as as as the fundamentals and as you go down the road there's a divergence yes someone building a healthcare business will have a very different activity a year in than somebody building a food business. That's true right but at day one. It's actually on the same. And i promise that in fact it's better together because there's there's a there's a specialness in having different perspectives from healthcare to cpg applying to similar to collaborating together. And helping each other. So so the first answer is is how. We're really here to bring all different types of entrepreneurship whether it's venture backed or not I would say we specialize in helping folks who are who are new entrepreneurship who Might have storied careers might have superpowers in another industry. But are just getting their feet wet when it comes entrepreneurship because he had those fundamentals If you haven't learned them it's important to come to a safe space. That's thoughtful about teaching them to be fair. I here's a lesson. I learned from human ventures right so human ventures we working with exceptional founders multi-mm` founders founders of hundred million dollar exits under their belts founders multiple startups under their belts. They needed everything that we offered them. Every single one of these exceptional founders needed me to be an a confidant and accountability partner. Hushing them teaching them things getting them to do uncomfortable stuff. It honestly doesn't matter And and and i saw us at human ventures has up working with some first time founders. Some younger founders. Who have gone on to build amazing things and and i was really firsthand kind of lesson that to not to not underestimate people. Bet against folks who are nude entrepreneurship but also everybody needs this. Everybody needs this. And you know we're new We you know at some points. I see day. One being an institution like techstars or y combinator. That's kind of grandiose. Talk to the point where there's Yeah i founder coming up whether you are a new website bounder or just a veteran will recognize that you need start with With a fellowship family at your back right and so so. There's a lot to that and i. It's very very difficult very difficult of lots about this program. I do have another question for you if you wanna release injury. What do you think given the the state of the world and the wonderful technology that we have available to us. What do you think technology and entrepreneurship. What do you think that relationship will be over the next decade. Yeah i i think it's gonna what we're going to see is here's the frame that i usually take into this. It's that you know technology that will continue to be sort of game changing front edge leading technology like the rockets to mars and and and and and things like that those will continue to be developed and that's important for pushing our world for it right but for the vast majority of entrepreneurs and in bass majority of tech it's stats. We're in this thing you'd call it the the deployment phase you'd say phonology for most software has developed mature to a spot where it can be applied to pretty much every industry and so we're living in a moment where take the most backward-looking industries take the most paper driven process. Software will go eat that and stop eating. The world is a almost decade old's statement but it's no longer. There's something important about the fact that it's gone from being novel and and kind of part of the rocket ship to being now part of the sort of Kind of expanse across the whole economy the fabric of business fabric of business right and so. I think there's two major impacts. It's going to happen. One is you're going to be able to create a business solving the most minute problem using software and and have it be a legitimate business because there's so many ways to deploy or to reach customers in new ways. There's so many ways to build that software berry cheaply and very efficiently So you're gonna see every single aspect of business get taken over by by software You're also going to be seeing these platforms. Come up they already exists whether it's shop affi- For for e com or sketch on doesn't it. Yeah i mean. There's every single type of marketplace that allows entrepreneurs to sell their goods that they're creating in their in their kitchens to Yes so you're basically going to have this this cambrian explosion of small entrepreneurs who do do their thing it's as a side hustle or a just a solo entrepreneur or the beginnings of a small to big startup in the proper sense. So i mean. I hope that what technology has enabled is that entrepreneurship becomes a very common thing. Fantastic all right. You remember the days where things went just the way the app today there was no smartphones. The world is a very different place. It's become so much more efficient. Hasn't it in. we're a long way. They're you're totally right. It's i it is night and day in terms of how people coming out of stanford or You know ivy leagues want to be entrepreneurs by. It's it's everywhere it's shark tank. It's but it's gonna even it's gonna continue to go and and people are going to find i. I hope it comes back to education and how we educate folks at the at the grade school level right much last college and beyond right You know the fabric of the career journeys we go on starts to look more palatable to people taking time to build something and then you know going back in to learn a different industry and then coming back out to try something new. it's Yeah it's kind of a brave new frontier for the fabric of our honesty our economy. It's very accelerating in two thousand twenty twenty one right now but it celebrated last year and it's gonna continue accelerate for certain time is flying. I'll tell you that was not too not too worried about saying goodbye to this. Is bay ny a hand in glove compensation andrew and i'm very privileged as the more future business audience to he is some of your insights. Thank you very much for sharing now at the pointy end of the co. i love to share a little bit about how people can get involved with day one. What is the process and how they're going to find you absolutely so easiest way is to if you search for us you'll find us but join day. One dot com is is where we live on the web and We are running cohorts Sorts of cohort based model which means we group bellows together into A start date in one an eight week program after which your alumni for life. And you know you're in the family. we are building community and services and resources but the program is the sort of flagship for day one and for this entrepreneurial and being launch pad for entrepreneurial journeys and we run these programs. These cohorts about once a quarter right now and We'll we'll likely speed that up but maybe not until the tail end of twenty twenty one and so we Yeah we're launching a program this month at the end of january. We're gonna be launching another one in the middle of quarter two and onward quarter three and towards the end of this year and so and so The last piece. I guess is that it's an application process. We are being very intentional about The community actually the members of our fellowships and so it's a pretty simple process to apply. It's always a free application But we're we're here for serious fellows and founders right folks who really wants invest in themselves to both level up as well as build something or try out. Fill out entrepreneurship. And so were much more focused on potential in you know ends in ambition than pedigree We focus on focusing very beginning so it doesn't matter if your ideas good or bad. We're here to help you make it better and that me dropping about a deal. Yes hope that are exciting. A good idea of course. of course. no it's it's one of these ventures If you've not seen or visited Joined day one dot com. Make sure you do. So because if you're a star punch you down you're looking to get involved in a fellowship like this. I'm sure if you've listened to this very excited about this opportunity and with that are we making join day. One dot com link available to you below this post. No matter where you see or hear this call you'll find that link back to andrew and his team and with that being said injury. Thank you so very much spending some time with me on the my future. Business shirt today wreck. Thank you so much for having me. It was a pleasure. Thanks for joining us today. If you enjoyed the coal then make sure to subscribe leiva comment shares with your friends and book your spot on the show at my future. Business dot com forward slash interviews. And if you're looking for solutions that will help grow your business than visit my future. Business dot com forward slash shop.
Building, Media, and Post-COVID Trends with Joe Marchese
"Hey everybody it's eric. Torbert co-founder partner village global aid network driven venture firm and this is metro stories. A podcast covering topics related to tech business with world leading experts. Hey everybody welcome to another episode of village globals venture stories. I'm here today. Joined by a very special guest. Longtime friend joe. Markazi joe is the founder at attention capital and previously was an executive fox and founder at treks. Joke what welcome to the podcast here. So job by way of introduction. Why don't you talk about the first company started and y you started it what it's out to do and then we'll get into fox in attention capital. The funny the first company i started was coming called social vibe and the idea and this is dating myself with my space but Here we go is basically that like if people were publishing their web pages on mice face. How come people couldn't be The the beneficiaries of the advertising on the pages and so you know at the first what we did was we actually had people post a badge to their page and they would earn points for the charity of their choice so basically turning dollars in charity dollars and like i mean it was. We had these pink balls and it was literally we were packing boxes and sending them to people on my space and influencers. I don't wanna say influencer before their influencers. Because i think there's always been but that was it and it was super fun. And they're not that kind of evolved into you know when the games hit hit facebook and farmville and you could earn points by engaging with but the whole idea is like choice base advertising then this just became a thread through career and was actually kinda the basis for tricks after your muted on online. If we don't we don't do at least one. Hey you're on mute. During the during every zoom than than is it really a pandemic exactly time behind your jerks took that that applies to kind of premium content. which is. Why shouldn't why shouldn't if asked if the future of media lives on demand interactive. Why couldn't the advertising beyond. Why does advertising i to interrupt what you're doing. Couldn't i engage with my hands at one point and then watch my content later rather than watch it and have commercial breaks in between and so we kinda took all the tacking apply to this. This simple idea which is opt in advertising would be more effective for people and more effective for advertisers supplied it to the television kind of ecosystem were large. At that was tricks was and is an actually. That's up twenty first century fox and then you been years At fox would achieve. There was your would you there you know at first it. Was you know to figure out what advanced advertising. And i don. I still noted danced advertising. As i guess it's i guess it's everything that sucks less than current advertising and and i i really focusing on it. Stare advertising to the viewer. Everyone thinks advocating subsidizes the content. You want so. Whatever they want to do is fine. And i i take exception. I actually think that if you really took an ad that was focused on the people who are looking at the ads you had actually ended up doing that was better for the publisher's content in the long run right like a modern revenue organization. My argument has always been a modern. Having organization shop isn't to maximize the amount of revenue. They make it's to maximize revenue while least harming the viewer experience. And if you're really good you can actually make it added to the viewer experience right like google search ads for actually added and so beginning. I was focus on advanced advertising. Then you know eventually. I was an overseeing all advertising for national geographic and fx and fox sports so things like the super bowl and the world series and broadcast like the simpsons. And i gotta tell you that you know people outside of tech throw stones at quote unquote traditional media saying that you know. Oh it's so backwards and tv. Advertising terrible and the first to admit. Even when i was running it that it is not a great user experience. But there's a reason why there's a marketplace's reason why it exists. The way it does and people don't understand it until they've actually been in it and so surprising state. As long as i got to tell you the number of startups that are running multiple billions of dollars worth of revenue and highly. Profitable is very low. As as you and i know and so two run the night. That was was absolutely a chance of a lifetime. So did that for a couple of years and then as some some people out there now fox and disney had had a giant transaction. And i kind of took that time to get back into starting things the and before getting into a central topple what they appreciate for from. Not being pulled. Read a little bit. They don't appreciate is at tv. Advertising works. it just doesn't work like like the way people see it. So what i mean by that is a you know if car can be exit. One hundred million dollars in total with this tv network in total one hundred million dollars effective not everyone of the ads. I don't need to see the app forty times and yossi show people who don't necessarily need to see the ad but you know. This is one of the big myths that that the internet has fooled people about you just want to target just the people who buy your product at just the right time and that's when you send advertising people and that's not true like if something's built ford tough and only people who drive fords know that then. What difference does it make you need to. You need to advertise the brother and sister and family of the person who drives afford you need to you need to. You need to advertise the people who drive cars. Besides for brands have social currency because literally society notes knows what they mean. And the idea that it's always this is all they is actually wrong and it is one of the things that's really hurting the industry. Is we fight over the wrong things we fight over priced the cpm and it's so hard to measure output. I think this is one of the subjects in alabama a little bit on with killing the advertising industry. A lot of things that one of the biggest ones is this lie of perfect bution measure. Exactly how hard my advertising dollars are working. You can measure exactly our. They're working on the first house and customers but when you want to build a brand i want millions of customers and you wanna bring your customer. Acquisition costs down over time. The only thing that reduces cash over time as a brand and building brands is different than performance advertising. It just it just is and there's so many factors that go into it was the creative good was the is the product good important whether or not the product sucks doesn't they is what's going on in the macro economy. I used to joke. I didn't understand how people say. Oh you know. If you work with me i can help you get our ally car company acts and then we'll what if our company axes competitor giving away cars. Afraid like i is. you're gonna suffer. Does i mean you did it. They what what happens if the car company axes breaks store. I've a feeling that the advertising isn't really going to help at that point. So i think that there's but but it's a very easy intellectually. Lazy argument is to say. Oh we can measure everything and so and people like since they're very uncomfortable and everyone in tech is very uncomfortable with anything being part art. They're uncomfortable with the art part of advertising. So they just kind of overly. I think we have over song as an industry towards that side towards data Is the lied. Both the possibility of it but also the it's not a worthy goal. I think it's it's actually exactly right. Those are the two sides one is. It's not like on what time horizon i see. I see an ad for mcrib today and six months later i go buy one like. How do we know also like fourteen other things happen to me that day. Isolating for which thing lead to lead to the conversion later. And you have the tricks that happened in advertising cookie bombing and trying to spoof attribution and there's just so much of it. I mean if you work with most at performance companies and some of the very big ones. We all know gone in. But like they'll always say our report that works and yet you'll see your sales decreasing and even if you don't see your sales decreasing you see your margin decreasing and if your margin decreases you become a commodity if you become a commodity you're just gonna keep re-acquiring your customers the platform so that leads the park to. That's not the goal right. It's a really hard thing to do because famously. Cmo's ten years isn't that long so or it's not when things aren't going well and so it's hard to have the kind of fortitude. You'd need to say no. We're taking the long view on building a brand and what it means to build the brand but you see it when you see a lot of these data see companies they reach a certain scale and then all of a sudden you see billboards in out of home and i mean. I'm on the board of clear channel for a reason like i'm not. I'm not trying to work my way back to the oldest form of advertising the hospital there. I don't think there's a smoke signal advertising company out there but if there was i'd be interested in it because the it may be inaccurate but it's very hard to fake worse is feels like attention. Capital is a lot of the culmination of your of your experiences. Or at least you've kept pulling this thread greg's Talk about what is attention. Capital and then conceptualize it your eardrums. What's the threat you you've kept on pulling think there's there was attention. Capital was going to be pre covid. And then there's kind of what i'm using it for now. Jim ensures kind of common and actually have kind of taken a second to say. I think take a break and say you know. Originally in the thesis still holds the attention. Economy is kind of what the entire us economy. Our global economy is based on. Meaning the things that we give reputation to we spend our money on like how we make choices on cars and movies to watch in what we do with our attention actually shape everything else like that was just a universal thing and so i spent a lot more time now. Attention in advisory work while i wait and kind of like what i think is the most interesting threads post and and as you know. There's there's two sides to this coin which is you know. After it sold my company efforts old tricks to fox. I founded human ventures with heather hartnett and human was this incarnation of like the the superpower behind all great companies as the people in this kind of very part and parcel saying about art versus science and that successes like you know where human spend their time attention and and what you demand of others in so that was the early early stage in attention was looking at a later. Stage like people are trying to understand the attention economy or their misplaced because they've high-value value attention but they're not valued properly is a really interesting space. And then you know in a covid world it was kind of a full stop and say will what would we think will be very interesting. Post covid and so. I'm still just kind of feeling out right now. we're gonna Few points you mentioned. One is in a previous podcast. You mentioned some digital. You mentioned something along the lines of you to we've we've tended to overvalue what we can measure And so what can't be measured gets undervalued and that goes speaks. Aren't science point at those really interesting yen. i think that's it. that's absolutely. It's very hard to measure. If someone goes to an event next experiential. We all know it. You know you know. It's really sad that we're not going to south by see us in the everyone. Can everyone can make fun. Thank god we're not in vegas right now Thank god and what a crush on. How much of our careers and our connections people we got to know. What is the relationship worth. I mean i don't know how to put a price on it. They you know maybe maybe salesforce and slack figure it out on star together but but they built our careers in your networks on these things and and they're very hard to value and so if they're hard people just kind of throwing. I'll pay for what i can measure and so i believe that there's a class of things out. There that are very hard to measure their undervalued in the market. Wha what's an example that the does mind to make it a big concrete for people. I one of the first things partnered with a james's firm who were lead live aventures on entre. Becca film festival. Right in tribeca son of these things where it's like it just brand that like people recognize. They don't know everything about it. People recognize the brand and that has intrinsic value. Jane rosenbaum's the like knows how to like put together an event and showed that like moves culture like it was founded post nine eleven to bring people back to downtown new york. It's the stories that told it film festival resonate for decades you see a piece of art that gets traded and ten years later someone becomes a you know a cancer research scientists because of something they tell me how you're going to measure that i tell me how you're gonna say i'm gonna show you the of film festival and is i. I love love of that. Space like national geographic back. It was impossible to say you know the sponsors and brands who worked with a with national geographic on on telling these stories about the environment. How many kids did they inspire to change career right like forget like what the immediate roi was like. The foreign brands like these things that are very hard to measure are just just constantly undervalued and so try to get involved as many as i can. I think one of the things you find though is you can be right about being undervalued but if you can't figure out how to evaluate you can't get a paid for in the same way so and i don't i don't mind picking up that mantle as a challenge every now and then the it's interesting we have ways of measuring real like the depth of affinity your depth of loyalty or of yet varies binary berta crude talk about stone soup and endure a. You're a real keep okay so and this is not to kill all the other business books out there and i hate to take a lot of business from our friends but i think the only book an entrepreneur needs to understand thoroughly if they want to be a great entrepreneurs the children's book sue and that is because the children's extensive is told in a bunch of different cultures but basically an elder young log into a town and the other. So we're going to teach this time to make soup from a stone. Everybody in the town lapse and then the person and the elder finds the perfect stone and then builds the perfect fire in philly people. Start to get intrigued to that. Like the really build soup from stone or make soup from a stone and so someone pokes their head out. Can you really make superman stone. And and the other ghost yes. It would be better if i just had a few carrots and then person goes. Oh i have some villagers says i have some squared away. Then that happens with potatoes and then that happens with onions on happens the chicken and and for children at the end. Everyone's eating and having a good time the end of the book and the children's lesson in the book is when we all work together. We all eat. And i would say that the entrepreneurs lesson is that motherfucker could not make soup from a stone by what they could do. Is they could paint division that got everyone to contribute their unique abilities to a singular vision. Right that's the fire. And so i think great entrepreneurs you look at it. There's only two questions any entrepreneurship to answer. Which is why now and why you why now. What's changed in the world because everyone has the same ideas anyone and says hold on. I don't want to tell you my idea. Because i don't want you to steal it and you don't have an idea but like you have to say why now in the world is a time for this to exist and then why are you the person to make it exists and that second but y you i would always say the answer is because i can attract people with unique talents to this. I can attract people with unique financial resources to this. I can attract employees. i can attract business partners. Like that's like so. Entrepreneurship is stunned soup. And like throwing throw and because you're never going to end up with whatever you put on that first pitch deck. It's going to change a million times. You have to be able to see the vision and get people to contribute to it and then at the end everyone elite the a of that that as as a metaphor i want to talk about the attention economy. A post covid book. I maybe let's do a little bit of historical recap windsor thought. Experiment for you is if we were having this conversation in two thousand six when you started. I mean you've really been spread for decades. Now let's say this conversation. You know fifteen years ago and we were speculating over what the ecosystem would look like in. The attic is in in twenty twenty. Are that Attack what would we have is similar to what we might have predicted or if you deserve talk about like what's happened relatives expectations. Or how do we think about like the different phases that are major turning points in industry. A yeah i think i think you would have predicted. Tv's fall a lot faster than it did right. And even even i prior to actually getting a chance to work in television and see the other side right would have predicted that faster In what you realize again. Brands are built that way right. Oh like data targeting human. The human brain doesn't work like we're not. We're not comfortable with the fact that the human brain we still don't actually understand how we have ideas and thoughts and how he shaped these things so so. That is one that you would have gotten wrong. Ever a lot of people did at the time know the rise of performance marketing but whole new class of advertisers so affiliate advertising so what used to be called. Dr on tv. That just got that last little bit. That wasn't willing to be paid for by the fortune. Fifty or the the biggest of the big in digital. That's you know. That's actually that is the eighty eighty twenty right like like you know. Wish dot com going public. You know sometime coming up here. It's it looks like these companies that there aren't building a brand. This is the of a lot of man this affects the advertising. And how you would have had predictions is. You've always said that okay. There's there's brands and retailers and retailers basically a house of brands right walmart and an everyday low prices the value proposition to consumers as we're going to curate the best that's available then we're gonna make that available to you then open marketplaces. Don't worry about that. We're not going to cure it. It'll be an open marketplace banking just before koga you started to see that open marketplaces don't always advantage. The consumer like why wire cutter exists right like like you. Don't go to the front page of amazon shopping. You go to the front page with an intent right in so. I think you wouldn't have predicted that. There's a whole class of advertisers. That are actually going to take a large part of the digital market. A large front of mobile a large part of performance large part of like social is affiliate marketers rather than brand marketers. And that is why. You haven't seen television really pullback or billboards. I love out of home because i as as hard to measure as it is. It is so present literally present. Irl ride and so. I think you would have. You'd have missed that. Those didn't decline as fast. I think you would have expected to see smarter. Advertising in traditional places like tv getting more targeted out of home billboards becoming the minority report version of out of home. Billboards where you know they recognize the you're walking by and they they say something to you. So that's that's interesting. But then i think because of those two market distortions the rise of a whole new class of advertisers soaking up all that excess inventory. And i think you would have never predicted as much fraud as it probably exists out there today. I think the open web barely exists anymore right. I mean how many websites you go to a day that have advertisements on it. That aren't a part of the big. You know calling the big fifty like the new york times or espn or something like that or be part of a walled garden facebook instagram. So then if i say the rest is open web. How much do you think is left out there. Probably not much. But i would guarantee you. There's billions of dollars trading and impressions on that market. So that's the that's bizarre to me. Still go figure that one out in the ad tech from like a venture perspective. I'm sure you've gotten hit up over the decade plus over all these ad tech startups asking you to Advice like How is it performed relatives expectations urges. Have you sort of approach that. That's face yeah. I never take my advice and add and actually i would. A most people shouldn't take advice from people who are jaded by because it's too easy to see everything that can go wrong right. It's too easy to see how stone soup is gonna spoil right. Because i know everything. And i and i've said this could make a lot of money. I don't think it adds value. And i think that there's a lot of ad tech out there that can make money for someone because it's it is it is eerie. How similar out some ad tech Say a lot of ed tech is to flash boys if you read the michael lewis book right front trading again impression. Getting past fourteen times before it finally gets delivered in each person. Took a penny out like what's going. There's something really weird and so might my biggest. My first point is i'm short in the long term. If that's such a thing. I don't think i don't actually trade stocks but i'd be short and long-term but like i just think that there's probably is a lot of money to be made right now because it's something feels off the relating. Let's talk about if we're having this conversation ten years from now which which. I hope to be doing. How many be different. Or what would you expect deserve. Accelerating the things you mentioned or any other. Major shifts are turning points. You'd expect that. I don't think that the market's going to correct slowly. I think it will. I think they'll be a crack. They'll be a break where like when we're pricing were only pricing things that we know how to price like like impression soleil but not all impressions are the same. I think it'd be if i told you that. All impressions are impressions and then we quality score them. I mean at some point will realize. I do think that the amount of inventory inventory hate calling back israeli people's attention the amount of men of real time people are spending in environments where there are ads is decreasing netflix. Flix ad free. Hbo right and the place where they do spend whether our ads tiktok snapchat instagram is. But most of those advertisements one. It's it's it's. It's a small fraction of your total time spent there whereas it was seven minutes an hour and television so the total amount of time people are spending with ads is decreasing and yet the total number of ads. People are seeing is being counted as going up all right so how long in that continue. Before there's some sort of reset someone will figure that out and someone will make a lot of money figuring out what that with that reset is. I've happy to advise one of those or investing one of those. I'm done westie trying to fight the good fight. The eh you're done because combination of Or the big opportunities elsewhere Or i think there's a bigger opportunity elsewhere much. I'm so interested in in you know and we'll get to this. I know that like can post covid like again. Local experiential is going to be massive. The crater economy is is changing rapidly right now because they're in multiple. They're all world gardens with their multiple gardens right. The tools are existing. I also think that you know it can be difficult to make an honest dollar in ad tech right like you if you if you're not willing to play the game if you're not willing to like you know look the other way on traffic acquisition audience extension and the thing. It's it's like you know. I don't wanna tell some founder. No no don't do that. Because you know you wanna be the white knight in the industry and then and then but then they can't make living right. So that's that's tough and and you'd love to be there when the when everything corruption but you know what they say all the time that Being early is is worse than being wrong. Sometimes because you're even more frustrated because you knew you were right saw I like the point you made in another as well where he said. Just talk about attention to comedy business models. You mentioned it used to be you made so much money that you made money You're trying to take everyone's attention or based on how much attention you could take a now. It's how much attention you could save the scheme as an example of maybe he will will save you. Bhutan does rita's. We'll tell you everything did not think. There's a whole. There's a clash of businesses right. Now that are saying this. Is this universal truth. This is true you know before before we got to the current state. It'll be true later. A time our only finite position in. I think i think time is equated to your attention and someone and i just heard it recently Might even someone talking to galilee. But it sucks about attention in time are actually sink. You can't multitask like there is a chart that comes out every year that like well. There's thirty one hours in a day because people have two screens open. And that's what they just want to say that that's why there's that's why they can double and triple count because otherwise the impression numbers make make no sense and so people are looking for things that saved them time and and enhance the experience of their lives. Meaning uber uber is everything that is an attention economy thing. But like hey. I can reduce my stress of. Were park in all these. There is so much more that goes into that in the scheme is a is a simple and so a lot of social media is trying to maximize the time you spend with them so that they can then turn that into something and then consumers are going the other way and like i mentioned wire cutter before and what's going to save me time but max my for the experience will be on the outset and i do think that's actually why i'm kind of bullish long. Run on things like walmart. The retailer meaning. I'm going to guarantee you that. I've spent the time to check this and it's not. It's not necessarily an open marketplace in that there's this kind of evolution of delivering value as experience in time back. That's that's a big big opportunity on the wall at talk about the future of of platforms retailers whereas brands future commerce. You was brand or or commodity. How the plano. yeah. I think that was all open. Marketplaces optimize for percent margin and. That's really really important. Because if i make something for ten dollars and sell it for twelve dollars. Humans are like two dollars. That's twenty percent margin. That's great right two dollars. But if i make something for two cents on a solid for three sons right you're saying that the penny. Oh my god. I'm not going to do that. That's that's no money. But a computers like that is amazing. Do that a trillion times. That's fifty percent right like that. That's a much better margin than the twenty percent and so open. Marketplaces always tend towards percent margin because percent margin can and get put back into marketing promotion. It doesn't matter whether it's good or not. It doesn't matter whether it's value or not and the platform doesn't take responsibility for the product in the way a retailer might and so. I think you're seeing a whole class of these and walmart's obviously gigantic. So it's just the biggest example that you go down to you see. These curator's of products and of emerging that are acting as retailers. Almost meaning stamp of approval. On what this what. This product is saving you. Time from having to go navigate around and this is this is not just true for physical products. I think guides to guides to travel guides to food guides to entertainment. What's worth your time is a big category and this is kind of the new retailer. And that's that's the value proposition the let's talk about post covid A few themes is some of them are sort of returning to your back to what it. What like local for example. And we'll get into it but first let's talk about. Where does he coveted. Postcode world as being fundamentally different than than a pre covid world. What where we changed the game and hesitant on this one. Because i think not not not meaning a bad pun bugging. We're getting a lot of false positives In terms of work from home or work remote and so forth because a lot of people who are working in had worked together in person prior right there was so much that went into people in in collision. You know peace tiny shea one of the better than like in our industry one of the better humans just period and he talked tons and he basically designed the ladd is people that have collisions and talk to each other and connec because back to you can't measure everything like like the roi human relationships is is just. It's immeasurable so i think more comes back than we think. Now i don't think it comes back that say it's coming back to work one hundred percent like we did before sitting gannett nine to five probably not right not really that in a lot of places anyway but is it eighty percent back. I think i think. I think it's more back than i think. It's more back than than we're currently living with. I do think that there's been celebration towards people learning I've spent a lot of time with the founder. Ceo and help him co fans coal reserves restaurant reservations and we want people just to walk away from the table. Like you walk away from the newburgh goes just easy enough to take a credit card and walk over now. You can't sit down to restaurant without a qr code so everyone's got their. There's almost like this. I think was alexia machine who can set it. There's almost like a stimulus for users because like people will try your product right now. Them's the things that were pre covid. Because i want to use the overused but very true. This was an acceleration of current trends though the Put a different way. It was obvious. Pre covid that there's a better way than handing your credit card and someone walking away. And why can't i have the stored and why. Why don't you know what i'm eating. That was obvious is very hard to fix because the way things were done. We're good enough and it was obvious. Pre cove it. That retail was going to change and it would retail is going to have to become experiential but now kovic said great reset. Let me give you my favorite example because you have to look for a silver linings especially when you live in new york city where it was really rough and i bit but if you remember pre covid new york city the l. train. Which was the train that goes from brooklyn to manhattan was gonna shut down and there wasn't anyone in the city who wasn't like this is gonna be the end of the world. I don't know how we're going to get by like the l. l. train apocalypse but we had a pandemic l. change sticks known even noticed it. So you know it's like it's like it's like you know if you don't figure out what are the things like. What are the infrastructure work. That could be done now. That could not have been done before. What is that fear. Startups does that for products. And what does that for retail. That's interesting let's into a few examples. Let's talk about the future of local and where you're excited where you're looking so i think that if you define the future of local into two big buckets right one is s. Nba right like arbor's in restaurants at you know things that are no matter. What on a post covid world you still have to go back to like otherwise can't a but you're gonna have to load balance humans at this point right you're going like scheduling software is going to become bigger and there were a lot out pre covid but post covid kind of how you think about. Smb at a local level like what is done for ecommerce for small business. What is that for all local like the interactions with people so smb is one giant category of local. Go down what restaurants which are going to hurt so badly coming out of this But you know there's a lot of we'll be a lot of chance to rebuild and there'll be a lot of appetite for it that was a pun intended f- but there'll be a lot of appetite from consumers for so so look maybe we have. We have some benefit here. In new york city outdoor dining soon be permanent. Took them hundreds of years to get to outdoor dining in europe. And we just skip ahead so so like so with all of this like that's the other part of local. That is very interesting is local experiential. What is gathering gonna look like post. We know people are going to go back to concerts. We know people are going to go back bars. We know people are going to go back to movies. I mean i am very very close and very biased to one that i'm how are people going to like. I think moviegoing will be a giant business post-code but the theaters won't look like they did in the past. How are you going to get to mixed. Use spaces being used to exhibit a movie so people can gather around it right. Both because of what's happening with tribeca and what christie's company is story spaces. That is fascinating to me. So if you find things that are going to want to gather there's going to be consumer demand for it but it won't look like it did pre it like retail people will want to you know for everyone who thinks retail is dead. You know the overused but absolutely on the nose examples apple like they sold everything and now you can't. I mean apple stores lines around the corner everywhere for them. So don't tell me that. Like i like that example by apple google amazon physical physical locations coming just about everywhere. I use that same example in in advertising when people are like especially start. Ups and tech people like billboards at so dominant. Like you know. The big buyers of billboards are tech companies. The number one. I mean is the top end television to top categories apple amazon google. So so if you don't know what they're doing when it comes to advertising at your mind the same thing with retail so that means it will be there but apple can do that. They the resources designed to do it. But what will that be all small businesses any anyone. Who's doing retail changing to an experiential mixed use spaces. Big deal that we weiner would you would you talk about virtual goeller or virtual gathered so then virtual gatherings is so this is more on the gaming side and or look we always over index every time of virtual worlds comes in. We always say this is it. We made it second life. We could probably find half of half of the articles that are being written today. Another difference today. Is you know the the epic and kind of unreal engine behind it meeting multiple building gaming environments and and i think obviously map ball has some of the best stuff on this. But can you make kind of virtual gathering of meet an i r. l. experience later Because i think things either have to pay off. I l. otherwise over time the value becomes diminished. Because you're either you're going to question yourself fully and isolate which during the pandemic to again back to like indicators. That are a little too strong right now but in a post pandemic world you're gonna wanna mix your digital interfaces to kind of pay off in your real world relationships somehow and so what will those look like and so thinking a lot about what that is. Let's get back to work in a new concept of new purpose economy Videos all right so the purpose canning lines on it. I love love love. And i haven't really a threat in terms of what makes the business model for it. But you know if you if you believe that we're in a place where you keep seeing an increase in in disparity of of the wealthy and the haves and have nots right. We're going to get to a place where we're going to have automated. We're gonna trucks. That can drive themselves. That's a huge huge portion of jobs and labor in the economy restaurants are going to become more efficient in so many ways. Like you've you've you've got tellers in a cvs and other convenience stores that don't need to have people standing so all of a sudden arbiter our economy will be just as efficient as it always was. It'll be more efficient. While produce plenty of food to eat will plenty of housing produce listening and you know. I'm actually i personally a fan of. Ub i i think i think that that something along the lines of you but i think you need more than that and i think that there's this purpose economy the same way i think in attention only the things that can get measured or being valued. We all know that childcare is valuable to the economy. But it's not paid for out of the economy coaching. Your local little league is valuable to the to the community but it's not paid for civic. Participation is valuable to the community but not paid for spending time at nursing homes and with the elderly is valuable to the community and the economy but not paid for so if you could take everything in the economy that is valuable but not paid for and put put metrics to put numbers to it. I've thought about you know. Kind of a serendipitous karma kind of like a foursquare for doing good deeds that just pops up on a map and the there's something to this idea of a purpose upon me and there's two reasons why i am so bullish on this as a giant up three. The work michael tubs did in stockton kind of Putting out the flagship program. For what is you be. I look like what's possible that how this is possible at scale the other is team rubicon which is run by a former marine them. Jake would in this idea of retraining. That's who have an amazing skill set to work in disaster relief and while yes it's great. They're helping in disaster relief. It's also just given a bunch of purpose and community and connection of human beings in this city. Look at these things at scale and you say you know who would be a great client over the next ten years governments as they literally print money. And so have you said. I wanna help build a system like kind of a new teach for america. A new kind of a new a new this idea of of value properly valuing rewarding the purpose economy and tying that to a ub. I that's my son's only had they're going go do that. And i'm i'm all in a the idea of going to be noodling on that one. How about in terms of Just the future of work as it relates to a distributed companies are How you see that playing. Yeah you know. I think you know a lot of people who can talk a lot smarter but like i said i think we're we're over indexing now for how easy older it'll be distributed but that means that talent could be anywhere in so you know i. I really started my career back in two thousand monster dot com and like the job boards job. Boards are really just advertising china match labor and employment. And you see the ones today like if you think about the muse By catherine men show or you think about what lincoln has done for passive employment. It's like it's gotten more efficient the labor market but if all of a sudden you said okay we'll now more people can work in more places. Do we have the job boards of the future for small. Like how does the small business take advantage of that. I know how big business takes advantage of it. I know how microsoft can outsource to africa like development. But i don't know how you know a smb down the block or up like is like which jobs are going to become remote and then you know. How are they going to support remote workers. How do you replace things everything that a job is so back to why collisions are so important. Your job isn't just your where you go to sit behind the computer for eight hours. I hope that your job is where you go to talk to. people about. Game of thrones at aren't your family. Your job is like where you were. You make social connections and friends and and so all of that gone in a distributed world. So how do you rebuild that right. I really it's the is the work of occasion but like mix settings versus your own office but then did they have culture even though their their their own company they think is does the location have culture even though you all work at different companies. Like let's the you know. People people over drinks talk about jobs so so people who can figure out how to replace or supplement. What used to come out of your job. That wasn't just doing your job in cranking on which it straight hours the the way to the future of connection How how do you see that playing out or excited their wall. It's it's in that vein. Which is i think. So much of our connection with other people came from a where we worked at. It's it's it's who your friends were How you connected with over social and so like how you interact with. People was heavily. I r l. Almost i right. And yes you can meet people distributed in you have it. You'd have a virtual relationship however that is but again there was always an iro pay off and then at that level you could go deeper in the future you know especially in covid world as kinda go back to a rebalancing what what what will that be you know. I think that the ones that have had the biggest gains in this last up during the pandemic as you see a lot of fitness right but the fitness aren't just fitness evening about peleton is is hardware meets content meets community and so purpose-built huggers. Anyone can say oh. Well it's it's it's an ipad screening bike. But it's not because just. There's no risk that it's going to not work for exactly what its purpose built for. Is designed tonal mirror. Same thing purpose built hardware meets the content. That's on it and you begin to build a community around it so we'll have that for concerts like. I'm sure you've tried to do it. I know i have like like during the pandemic like okay. Let's all watch contra friends and you've got a zoom setup in the near looking at the screen that's on the far wall and the sound isn't just right and everyone needs to. That's not right. So someone's going to build purpose built hardware so that we can be more communal around group. Events I'd be interested. Portal started to go down that way right And if that's the one dotto where zaka what's the peleton for for social connection if spoken some people who are working on products dating side. They say that you know the data in our. You're holding your phone in front of your face but like the how you'd wanna sit if you're sitting with someone and having a conversation day there'd be atmosphere around you that you could talk about. There would be music that would play on both sides. Make all of those things which are which would require almost purpose bill and if thinking not just repurposing a laptop Laptop camera or on camera and people are having now like they'll set up a ring light. They'll set up a will. The phone will be here so they can sit on their couch. But like someone's going to say okay all the stuff you've been hacking we're gonna make a real product for and make it better but the way you mentioned biggest gains. You're on fire with the puns today. Okay i'm retroactively making that one intentional yesterday. I thought we'd get caught. You were going to say Only just because that is absolutely taken off the that goes that this category of creators. Right like this this this idea that monetization following. But you don't need to have like so. All of the internet was based on accumulation of a vanity metrics. They weren't necessarily meaningful like most impressions. I reach one trillion impressions a day. I don't even know what that means straight like. I you know. I reached every every adenauer reaches ninety percent of the population weird. I don't know how but like they do. But like can you make it like. Can you make a cottage industry in a note. You don't wanna get the scale you actually to be. You wanna have like hundred fans in. His economic revival doesn't set of one hundred thousand fans and that seems to be would only fans of shown and it's been proven time and again Adult content gets there first on the internet in terms. Of what makes what makes money and then the rest of the figure out to a maybe a little bit about of booze banks and other regulatory mode businesses. Yeah so this this. This is new and interesting but like such interesting. A lot of my time with a tequila company and i basically i'm partnered with the ceo and founders a friend of mine for years and we started building in mean literally distillery in mexico. An import licence untaxing an innate. Us you have a three tier rule which means there's no such thing as real data see like the what looks like the is still going through the three tiers right you get it. In into an importer those distributor the distributor goes to a retailer and then it can go to a consumer and all of this is so it looks so painful from the outside and yet you realize that that's built in regulatory boat that once you figured it out you're on the other side there's a lot there's a lot of room to run and you're seeing syntech right now. I mean you just thought with with with the massive round that current justed. We were there from the very beginning. watching stewart like build a bank building bank is expensive and very hard and highly regulated right but once you on the other side of building on the rails right instead of thinking. Oh well this is easy a while. let's get direct to consumer. No you build a bank. You do the hard work and you're on the other side of the regulatory moat now. What's the best product for the consumer. How quickly can we read on the brand. How do we market. And i think the same thing and alcohol. I think so. I've actually kind of come at one. Eighty on what. I think about regulatory based businesses. Now i want to find people who are want to take it on but actually have the ability to do it. It is capital intensive to get there. But if you believe they can get to the other side. Then they can truly differentiate versus like most things indeed a c. You know not most. Because actually manufacturing a decent product is always hard to do. That could be remote but most things were like. Oh anyone can pick up. Pick up a laptop via facebook ads in there in this business. That's that's like i. I think that's a bad place to be the sutphin tag healthcare education. Yeah i mean like healthcare. I'd love to see someone do more with i. I haven't gotten anywhere near other than you know. Some some companies that that human found some amazing founders. That no it. Because it's one of those things i wanna see a good fixing it. I don't. I don't know and i'm perfectly comfortable with that. But like one sturt lynch lynch. You're on the other side of the regulatory. So the one paloma which is doing hypothyroidism. I once they figured out this is doctors. Treat people with tele presence. This is what's allowed this is n. it becomes. Okay now it's marketing and product and we're all good marketing and product they. That's why i get nervous. People pitch deck and it looks beautiful but they don't know have a have the guts of it have to work to and then your interest goes in the future commerce. Of course we've talked about. Is there anything we haven't talked about there that you're excited about. Is it a wire cutter for a detailed yard. What we're excited about. yeah. I think that is true. I think if we see people pushing democ start to pull back on how much they spend on experiences versus how much to spend on things have they trust brand. So i think you know. The same thing is happening in multiple industries in entertainment and in products. It's amazing have similarities. The barbell meaning there used to be a spectrum of quality of goods right now. There is commodities goods that you're just acquiring the customer one time the all the affiliate marketers the lowest of the lowest cost whatever it is and in the highest or winning. Lvmh right like like the. The quality matters the brand is nike patagonia. Like in the middle is going away right. It's the same thing in content right. I'm either watching you know. Hbo or i'm watching fx much. The americans i'm watching or watching talks. That cost nothing and the middle has gone right and sell. I think that consumers will be able to pare down two things matter most of them. They'll they'll pay up for brands that they trust in the reason. Why brand matters is brand. Is the promise of what you experienced. Last time with. The company has the same. You'll experience this time. You know when samson got all the flack because the phone the battery issue that was that a big deal because of samsung and they're gonna make more funds in the future and they had to earn consumers. Trust in better fix it and they better do this. If that was just brand x. Commodity why and it just disappeared like no one would have been held responsible for that right so consumers will pay up for brands. Because there's this idea in fox's favorite say this idea of object permanence it's like you know when you cover bids is and you shot and then you show yourself as ecoboost because like they don't know that you're still their brands are object. Permanent will be there six months from now. It'll be there. You're not can trust the ingredients interests the product and then everything else will be a commodity that i will require the customer events through the platforms facebook whomever and the margin on commodities trends towards zero That's the way it works. The that's a that's a great place. My guest today has been of attention. Joe thanks so much for coming on. The podcast has been great episode. Got him tequila. You're an early stage entrepreneur. We'd love to hear from you. Check us out at village global dot.
#118 Take Imperfect Action Now
"Good day fellas. Welcome to uncensored advice for men. Josh here i'm your host If you are a dude and you wanna sit in live on these interviews head on over to the facebook. Group uncensored advice for men You can ask your questions to our guests as they're gone on live it's a it's a private group and You could ask questions that are important to you. So we've had guests talking about you. Know relationships belief systems failure pivot all sorts of things that uh guys face so once again head on over to free group. There's nothing to sell them. They're not trying to push anything. It's just so you could engage with our guest live on today show. We have angel. Angel is the ceo confidante angel. Welcome the show. Thank you thank you for having me here today. Josh obviously thank you everybody. Who's watching today. Yeah all right so tell us a little bit about. You know who you are what you're doing and i've got some really fun questions. Okay to ask you today wonderful. I can't wait. wait so basically you will. You will realize. I have a funny accent. It's a mixture dolph. Probably the eight countries. They've lifting originally from spain. It was born near barcelona. I ended up in plano. Texas not dallas those of you that know dollars access planning's international community north of balance which the law does a very international community with lots of headquarters and everything. so basically. here's i was working in corporate in the corporate world for a long time i left. I left You up in the nineties and basically where today's very simple is number one consulting firm what we do is we both corporate ceos on established enterpreneurs. They hire s to bridge the gap globally for expansion and exposure as a way to accelerate the girls of businesses. I was blessed enough to be able to work. More than incandescent business in more than thirty three countries and held more than fifteen hundred you know companies and their c level executives. And that's why. I decided to do what i do today. I think that going global is a great way to take your business. Global to other geographies is a great way to accelerate its growth and that could be more couldn't be more relevant than you know with with the wall. That's happening right now today. Right and the second thing i know is excuse me is that i was exposed to at least in latin america prevent years in business for a long time i was. I was exposed to poverty that i decided to launch. Go along with a friend of mine. Eight thousand and seventeen was we launched phone dacian. It's an international dacian. It's a charity on. Its wisdom for kids and what we do. Is we help underprivileged kids. And latino money cubby comments with preneurs using the local resources. Okay so that's my life and he's view. See you know very often. I mean. I just almost read my bio right but i like to say that i'm basically the connected with the unconnected on. I mean this world to be the connector of the unconnected connected. That's who i am to be able to be really the conduit. I consider my businesses my foundation on myself to be the conduit of everybody else's greatness. That's awesome now. The name of your company is the ceo there. Why did you choose that name. Yes so it's funny. So i'm doing business as the ceo confident. That's my brand exactly. My name is angel reboot by the name of my company. Interestingly enough his divine human ventures divine human ventures and. I mean i. I love it. I just love it because i consider myself to be. You know i a you know. Just a spiritual beings having a physical experience in this world with all of our flaws and mistakes and failures right but we are still spiritual beings. And we're here for a purpose right and they. I picked the ceo confident doing business device. Human adventures is. Because i wanted to be really not divine human ventures but divine business ventures but it was already used an couldn't find the guy that the book named so and when i when i changed it into divine human begs the said well. They got so much better. Divine human veterans benchers so much relates to the human beings that we all right both myself might bottles supplies my employees my client right and then the reason why peak doing business ask the cup down this because what i told you before because it had worked doing my corporate career had with so many ceos i always doing i was always doing. This did business development strategies talking to the c. level executives those companies to close the business. So when i left. Corporate america has started to count how many companies have words and they started literally. I started to come them. And i said oh my god this is far more than fifteen hundred and it stopped counting at fifteen hundred. That's why i put myself. I a research. i saw that. Nobody was using that name. And i said okay. So i'm gonna i'm gonna use it myself. That's why it came out with the c o q really. It relates a lot to what i have done in my life which is really helping. You know ceos both business small business owners of corporations to help them really accelerate the growth of the businesses through different companies will with. That's why yeah. So confidante right now. How does that tie in right. What's the meaning of the confidante. What does that mean for you. Thank you great question. Obviously so you know when you become. I believe that you do business with people that trust you right. And i think that when you consistently at able to develop some level some sort of trust and you're able to close so many businesses is because the something in you that generates thrust in the other side right in the other and the other clients and in this case we talk about clients people that close business with right and we decided to actually a relationship. It's a commercial relationship. Right is a sales relationship so when you get the morning get business from someone that that relationship actually gets closer and closer and closer. And i've seen that a laude with my current clients. When i became my own boss is when you trust with someone. People really want you to help them with lives as well. Not only with their business. And that's where you actually. I have to tell you my clients. Most of them started hiring me for a reason and we end up working with other things. That's very common. They ask him you know. We started working with specific marketing fees or business development sales. Whatever and we are working together on many other things many other things you know and and you know that's why you know confidante means that it's someone that you can really talk you know in in a very private confidential place with someone and when you come ninety you know long enough. I think that become that person that you have been able to do it right. That's why that's why confidante because you're very close to the mind hard like maybe even through the secrets right. I mean i n the as with so many people right. So i I obviously some people ask me. Hey but based on disclosed they said well. I mean i had to disclose everything. I'm very very. I would already have like a million lawsuits for the the nature of my work. I never disclosed anything. Anybody ever all make reservations by. Default are protected by an indian. That's awesome. Yeah so they can have confidence in you as you're helping them business and then also in their own personal life. Now i did not know that the original name your businesses the define human so that speaks to so many things because you know centuries a venture is a a risky business arrangement then produces results. Here's how you create that that we're spiritual humans or spiritual beings now. How does that impact having that philosophy that were spiritual beings. How does that impact how you go about work on a daily basis in how you treat people great question i as you have already seen. I'm pretty upbeat upbeat guy okay. So i'm all about passionate energy. And i think that this is contagious. I believe because people tell me. It's contagious you know. And and some people want to jump on up and down. And i think that really i mean i really like these conduit. Regardless of the business of the money of the transactions and everything at the end of the day people like to be around people that make them best burger better human beings that will. I really believe so i am in this mood. Twenty four seven. Okay so just to picture this a funny way. I have three kids two of them at a very young when i go with them to any place they always tell me before getting into particular store that he please. Can you. please promise that you're going to behave today. you picture. This picture is right so daddy. Please don't be cranky. They used to call me cro corny before now. They changed from corning to cringe. Now please. because i'm this kind of guy that start conversations with everybody. I'm of the checkout of walmart started position. It's not guaranteed that the other person. You know the checkout guy or gal is gonna. It's going to continue the conversation. But that's who i am as you know amazing happens when you do this and that's who i am and that's held us chain. How does the chain my relationship with my potential clients as you can imagine right so i'm really tried to make a difference. Their lives every single day by being myself but being fully centered koi right. I'm not pretending to be. And i don't want to set this by everybody and i don't want everybody to like me. They don't like me. That's perfect because it means that someone else doing something similar is going to have some additional business. And i'm fine with this. you know. there's always for everybody josh. I see the world in terms of abundance and prosperity. There's scarcity if that rings a bell that resonates with you at all. Yeah my daughter will will hit me. She's eight years old and we'll go out into a public place. And i start singing and then when i noticed that she's giving embarrassed i like turn it on and i'll start singing and dancing and she's like you're embarrassing me. Thank exactly exactly ban on. I mean is it possible. Some allu- you like who's these weirdo. But some other people would say. Well i i love this guy because of the energy he brings in right so you know whatever so this is this is a. This is a topic that i think. Especially when you start to get your. You're in the limelight. A lot your tv. You're you're on shows your interviewed a lot. Very publicly viewed. You know you've got thirty thousand followers right so being in the limelight. A you know does it. Is it hard. Sometimes when you start reading meeting resistance from people who don't like you who speak up against you. Because i'm a people pleaser so when i go out in someone like hundred people can say josh great content and then one person could go. That was shit and that could ruin my day. How does that impact you look. It looks like it looks like we were so in tune before you even get to get to know each other today so you know if someone asked me what my superpower guess what. My answer is going to be and bus. I am a super empa- only the impetus know how hard it is to be. An empress okay. So i'm the one. Let me tell you. Specific example one of my clients. Semi-in send me an email earlier today and he wasn't a positive impact. It wasn't an positive email. Guess what. I've been having this in the back of my mind so my entire day. Thank god in a few minutes. We're gonna have a compensation know we're going to have a conversation and it's good but you know it's really tough to be able to feel what others field. Yeah i i'm with you. I'm with you so you know. Last year with all the separation all the polarization all the breaches burns burns like like turndown down. Torn down right. I mean you name you use the that you won the separation the friends. We lost the relatives that we lost. Stop talking to blah blah blah. My main question to myself being like a public having those thousands of people falling blah blah was. What is my role. How can they honor my role of being a public figure and at the same time be of use. And that's my answer my own answer to myself number one. I will never please. Everybody and i'm fine with that number two. I'm going to be consistently be building bridges. And i'm going to be fully present using my passion. Amancio my my kumble knowledge and experience with as many people as i can all the time no matter. What if some people don't like me. I'm fine with that. I'm fine with that. And he's okay. It's gonna hit me. Yeah probably but you know what. Guess what. My skin is beautiful. It shines it's bride. You know why because it's so thick you know. So i have wrinkles and blah blah blah. Whatever you want but still my life. Purpose is so stewing borton to devote my energy to what i think. It's not necessary. So for for me i'm empath to like. I feel people feel their feelings. I could walk into a room and i go. Ooh i'm not wanted here right or i could see people i could read. It's weird but it's just like i could feel it and sometimes i might be over examining because they just might have on the way here got a speeding ticket right but like for the most part. I'm really good at reading people with makes it difficult to speak truth or to stay on path for me in cape saw. I love to hear your thoughts on this as a person who has high beliefs in in my mission and my purpose. If there's someone that i'm trying to accept or get acceptance from or if there's someone that i'm trying to impress which we shouldn't be doing this anyways because i have a wife already and i've beautiful kids that love me. I don't need much more. Have you ever found like me that your tempted to fall off purpose to gain the acceptance or approval of the people that you would like. That's that's a so the answer. The answer is no the answer is yes. But that's why it's so important to reconnect and to find those moments of silence literally of silence of silence of reconnecting with your cellphone throughout the day. Okay so i i run. I mean i you're gonna you're gonna so my my brother way love dearly. He's in spain right. He gave me. And you're gonna love it. They never shown to anyone. Okay i don't know if i wanna see okay. Okay so we're gonna we're gonna show it so it's important to i mean. This is a table specific shave ride and a had lights here and they have a whole bunch of things here that people can see but guess what i have just next to me has been here for a while and i have three monitors here and everything. Guess what okay. Well describe what you're describe what you're holding up because people. I'm not exactly so we're holding up with the with with the permission of the filter of zoom is basically on the statue of small sculpture off archangel saint michael right so Religious person of not really But i i used to be an in proud of it right. I think that everything that i am is because of my past. I know it was. It was born in a catholic family in spain. But the reason why. I have a song. Michael here is number one. Because it's an anchor for me to remember to go into myself inside myself. You know every single or several times throughout the day and remember my greatness regardless of what's happening around me okay. I don't have to be accepted by everybody. But obviously i think that the most enticing proposal led you can get these imagined that he comes or she comes. These organization comes to usa. These massive contract. They want to contract you. I want to hire you and they bring all these potentially money on the table. But you're not you're not really specifically excited because maybe you don't like what they stand up for you know so this is this is a difficult thing right because obviously you want to increase your business. You want to have more people serving a team of people. Working with me parolee as anybody else right. So have more people. I want to increase their salaries. They want to give them more and more and more and more. Maybe that's client is going to be the way to but guess what i continually reminded of. This is my profile. This is the people really want to work with. Because otherwise i might end up in a place where i don't want to be and again. What is the my my answer to your question is. What are the anchors that you use every single day to what to go back to that place where you know. Although you are feeling that maybe you're suffering or you're in pain right the still you know what your track is keeping being on your trump. Yeah that's good remembering your anchors. So powerful because i'll tell you i've been bankrupt on food stamps. I've built some great things billion dollars worth stuff. Lost it. I've i've worked in many different things. I'm very public about my failures. Because i believe it. It helps people. But i'll tell you when you're struggling you don't know where food or money is coming from and an opportunity comes up. That's when that's when temptation comes. Because i've been tempted for example right i. I've been tempted to do advisory services for an organization that does not aligned with my missions. My values this was a while ago. And they're in An entertainment but it was not aligned. With who i am or who i want my daughter to look at daddy as now so because it had commas involved in in terms of the work that i could do and that was hard because it could have done good good and justify in brain. If i get this money i could do good. And then i'll work my way out of that and then i'll only take good clients but like have an anchor. What anchors do you use for me my daughter. What kind of man do does do. I want my daughter to see me yes. That's a huge one. What kind of husband do i want my wife to view the us and then there's a few others in there. But what anchors do you use to hold you to their path you are. You're spot on and let me tell you something you talking about my office before an older devices a half here. Guess what. I have a specific corner here. What my son where he comes back to school every single day. He works there. He works there and he. He's computer there and he listens to a lot of podcast interviews of that. He listens to do a lot of business. Calls of that. Both the goodwin's at the bedouins and we have a conversation over the phone us. You know what he does. He stands up after the call. He comes here to hug me. Because i knows yeah. It's crazy right. Amazing exactly but all those conversations even if he's doing some homework even if he's playing minecraft he but he lots. It doesn't matter. Do you know how many hours of conversations my son has listen to crazy. How much how. Much how much of your son's education is that worth As opposed to being distracted continuously in reading downstairs. Have my office of the second floor being downstairs watching netflix or doing any other online. Dvd's you know what. I mean so definitely. This is one another one i have is actually every single day for the last two years and a half. Every single day morning. I have the power to eight group. Power of eight group. Okay so what we do. Is every single week every single day at eight from eight to eight thirty or something to nine. Am eight central time. We meet to work on an invention experiment. Okay so basically. It's if like meditating but for the purpose every single week on saturdays. They're all on one of us aid. Actually we are nine. But that's okay. We one of us get speak and everyone big big intention. It can be material. It can be healing someone. It can be something happen. Whatever these so three years in almost three years and a half hundred and seventy intentions already so every morning we meet to do good in the world. We're actually we're following someone stitching okay so we follow a particular in the uk. Because of a book called the intention experiment. Her name is leeann mctaggart. Very good friends with an american scientists. Call dr joe. Spencer and we are right now. We're writing a book called and miracles of all. Miracles have happened. So our our a hundred and seventy intention experiments that we have conducted an i to say i mean i wake up at seven six seven because i have kids but there's people in california that have been consistently waking up at six five thirty six every single morning for three and a half years and that anchors me a lot that sets every single day including weekends every single day in a different in a different direction so people have been a strong anchor for you. Have you ever had tell us. I'm sure the answer's yes so like. Let's attorneys attorneys. Ask questions that. They know the answer to already. But of course. No reason that i have you ever had an anchor that you had to remove from your life. Maybe kind of share that experience with us. That's a great question. Nobody has ever asked me that question. Let me think. I have to think okay. I would say that More than anchors. More than anchors people people that they had decided to start journeys together business associations these kinds of things. And you know what. I think that Those natures those the nature of those associations were not good enough to be in place for a long time. So i have felt this very deeply i felt like i'm being protected. You know maybe. Maybe i showed you before. The statue of of archangel michael right Again my my brother will be delighted to know that then show his. He's present he gave it to me and fifteen years ago literally intact with me. So but that's it. I mean. I really believed that. I'm i'm i mean you've gone through a lot. I've gone through a lot. Have you ever felt like you're always going to be all right if you were able if you know no no. There's been times where. I was like the world's falling apart. I'm not gonna make it there. You have such a positive like or about you in. You're you're right you do you do shine. No there's like saying. I'm not gonna make it out of this. There's literally been times like that. I mean one of the worst moments in my life. Which i which. I thought they was going to lose my house. Okay choice the worst. Well no. that's that's the second worst the first one might i divorce i the last the gay. I dearly love my my wife. And she went anchors and pillars and everything but You know even though that. I'm such a fighter. Parolee i lost. I lost my statue game. Actually with a sword and i lost of the one of my moves and talking to one told me it's love you have lost the sort. Actually you have your sword inside of you. So you're consistently using the short as a as a fighter a fighter you know so even even the those situations i knew it was gonna make it. I knew i knew it. Just not gonna make it. I was miserable. It doesn't i. Didn't i didn't feel miserable and i mean not only miserable because when when when you're actually defining the the the miserable lives of others that they haven't done anything to deserve. It gets much worse when you finally behind you and you're facing that moment it's it gets even worse. I mean you felt bad before. Oh my god if it feels much worse when the people relying on you have to bring food to the table and you were feeling miserable. So i mean well you know that i mean i mean. We can talk about guilt and remorse all day long if you wanted. No i'm not in my head over here. People in the podcast. I don't know if you heard my head just bouncing up and down because by myself. If i put myself through something and it hurts me so be it exactly but i heard those who i love because of my poor financial decis ends or business decisions bad partnership or something like that and it makes my two year old son. He's three now. He's going to be forced in holy-moly flies time but if something hurts someone to collateral damage of our decisions right hurt someone else me and that feels terrible. I've lost his family money. I've made mistakes and learn the man feel. How do you work yourself through that. Well that's that's obviously. He's home I i mean the only the only thing i can say is forgiveness. I mean honestly it was like acknowledging that sorta guys i mean i i failed. You know i wanted to do this. I wanted to achieve. That was the goal unfortunately. The result was unintended. But hey what you know what. I'm going to be here fighting and i'm going to be doing much better much smarter job much as much you know and i'm going to be taking you to where you were before. Now honestly i mean what else can i do. I mean i don. I you know when you the when you rock bottom when you bottom them and i think that we all remember those moments right. I think that's that's that's literally the neuronal connections. There will be always wired forever right. So am i mean we we. We know that. Okay so beth what are they. Those are the mistakes let allies it and let's move on fast fast fast. Like okay next. Step what is it. I mean i fought with this mortgage company. I can't imagine. I fought like crazy and we. We kept the house and we kept the house. Did you know but again. It's not that i think that i there's someone my back and then he can relaxed. None of someone has my back but they keep taking action and you know. Some people criticizing. Hey angel i've seen so many interviews and you can sell yourself. You don't sell your services. Your call to actions are very mitsubishi. Or wishy washy. You know it's like and my answer is always and so be it. You know i'm not here to sell anything and just just cure if i can provide if any of my journey failures are generally successes or whatever resonates with someone in your audience today. Josh we can change. Someone's life today. In whichever direction. I will be the most happy camper in texas today. Totally know that that's it and you know it's it's that's it. That's why i say all the time you know. I'm just a conduit of someone else's greatness. That's that's that's my mission. That's who i am so you said when we were talking previous you said let's move on fast and you said that we need to take action. You actually said it much better than me. Thank you go for it. So yeah exactly exactly so. It's like my golden nugget right. It's like they take imperfect action now take imperfect action now. We tend to spend too much time in those inflection. Points deciding what to go. And i am the first one right when i teach through preneurs about people thinking of crisis i would say the same thing number one mistake i made a me me me angel real. The number one mistake i stayed on that stuck place for too long i take taken. Just one route. They going out and start start surfing. The drought started taking it. They action doctor but then future clients and see what happens. They say start offering them business. Only done with people and people will do business with you the you they the only way that you can create a relationship of trust is through connection. How do you so the question is the real real real connection. Every single business should be asking themselves. There is how consistently create human relationships with other humans but might be wanting to get the volume the offered in there. That's it nothing else. Nothing else so why. You will be on defense for so long trying to see. Always that is that copywriting. Should they change. The should use a different pronoun. She a houston. Should they changed my avatar. Should they be like fifty seven years old instead of fifty five you know and that's again paying attention to detail is perfect. Human being survival mode have to pay attention to details otherwise we will die after. Let's say twenty two years old when we get free at twenty one right but we are human beings continually fighting against this against this attention to detail. It's good to be perfect. But that is the number one block the number one reason why people on into situation that you weren't at some point or i was at sample terminally money like crazy span. Come on raise your hand audience. Raise your hand. Raise your hand you know. So what do you do about you learn. You know what not to do again. You will do. And that's something that they typically do not the only like you know acknowledging my fault it's also it's also communicated better. I think communication we communicate because of fear. We don't want to communicate with the people that support this. We don't want to really communicate blandly honestly fully. Honestly you know what what we did and why we did it so you know but because we want to be accepted. Obviously a coup doesn't want to have their own familiar accepting them Everybody's right yeah. So i i love where this went and in terms of take imperfect action. Now i think that's a great motto to live by. Because you could always go back and refine me as you know like i know that you know especially if i'm a one man show or if i have people that you know if i'm growing growing hurts and you've got to take a lot of action when when you're moving and growing and building a business in doing deals what's one piece of advice that you have for us as for taking li- learning taking that first step towards imperfect action. What's one piece of advice you can share with us to give us confidence. You're the ceo confidante to give us confidence in ourselves. I'm gonna. I'm gonna use a small a short story in comparison the case so when we start in sales i started in sales in the ninety s. Okay so. I had these goals to achieve. I'd had a nice start excelling through over the phone over the phone okay. And it wasn't a foreign country using a foreign language. May obviously my mother on recess spanish and catalan and i was doing making so many calls and i felt really uncomfortable but it had to do it. That was my my my bonuses. My position blondy was my life. And i really wanted to excel because peoples person. So guess what. Instead of setting myself goals of successful goals set myself goals of unsuccessful goals. And that's a very simple extract strategy that allow me to be fully comfortable with a goal of how many hundreds of unsuccessful who they make a week. You know so. That's a very weird stupid strategy. That they used. I mean it served me masterfully and a became so comfortable than when i started to be successful in step to us. I mean all my leads us inside sales. All my sales leads would go to the field. Strike the field representatives in different countries in europe. So then suddenly the angel one more of those. No no no no. My goal is successful does not successful calls. Yeah so we had this conversations. We've made field reps. That eventually lost me. Because i learned something after making so many stage i learned how to go through gatekeepers and everything. So that's the main thing that's the main piece of allies. Want to everybody. I know you're gonna feel uncomfortable but make it a goal. Make it an objective and make it public make it public really make it public. I remember that when i started my entrepreneurial journey when left goldberg domenica. One of the first things they did was actually to go on camera on facebook. Live for the first time in my life ever just to explain why i have left. Domenica video ever recorded and guess what. Let me tell your story. Someone sent me a message. A message on facebook saying this is the most stupid video ever seen. I saw that after the fact you know what company when it clicks stop on facebook. I started crying. Because i have never been so wrong in front of so many people in my life. Had they been so wrong. Never why did i do that. I had to. I had to like announced the world even just for myself rui literally. I started brian. And guess what ben. I got this this message and then i got an email. I kept it somewhere. This is the most stupid video. I've ever been asked to watch. I mean can you imagine. Just starting okay so i am an empath right. So i said oh my god. I think it's going to be the last email i've ever ever send you know for people to go and see my video. But i couldn't do anything with online because they are online deleted. Videos are still. There actually might be there. Is there from like five years ago. You know so again. I said publicly what was going to why was doing it for whoever was there to listen. Yeah yeah that's awesome. You know and again. Let me give you a better. Give you a second of mice. Okay that you know if you don't take that action you know and if you're fearful is taking action for what whoever is going to say my question is always the same thing out of these people that they're going to judge you going to pay your bills for you. Are they going to pay your bills for you. You know your car your electricity. Your water your guys. Are they going to pay the bills for you. Know so who cares who cares keep going keep going ladies and gentlemen keep going. Yeah i i look at it. The more resistance meet like before. First of all resistance makes you strong so a lot of times resistance. Is there to bless you if you view that as a blessing the resistance is a blessing than that helps i. I worked at a couple of jobs. Ride just made cold calls all day and that's just for anybody who does that you know. That is a tough tough. Tough job constant rejection but Yeah that's such good input angel is just keep. Just keep going in and change your goals a little bit to be fun and to not expect to increase your human connectivity in value like you've shared them those good angel two more questions and then we gotta go angel What question should i've asked you that. I completely missed the mark that i just failed to be honest. I mean you asked me questions on. Nobody has asked me ever a very often interest as you said before So i mean there's no question that could love you to ask me because i think and i think why we showed that before that every single interview and conversation alive of itself and i think that this conversation has birth awesome where can Our audience go to learn more about you and they say hey you said resonated with me in i could use some help thank you yeah the the i don't mind giving away my by email address and a half either. He's either myself or my team. Who was gonna who who are going to answer these message. But i will always have some sometime for you. You know listening to us. Today are watching us my email address. It's very easy. My first name is eight and g. l. as as an angel from heaven and then my last name is reba spelled r. i. b. as in boy. Oh sto- If you send me an email to angel at angel reba one word dot com use easiest way to find me if you want to know about more about me. It's so easy to find me. You go to facebook you go to late in. I'm a lincoln every single day post on lincoln facebook instagram twitter every single late youtube. There's every single day i am there. So you want to know law means going to be easy for you to find me. Cool all right. Well we'll put those links and the show notes because you share and guys listening in once again. We have a free facebook group so as these interviews are going up. Sometimes we've done five a day and sometimes we do one a week but if you want to sit in or at least have an opportunity to sit in live ask questions you to our guests and then you know connect with them head on over to our facebook group. It's free and We'll see their Until then i guess we'll see you all on the next episode angel you say. Got some as to chat with you. Ab-absolutely thank you. Thank you so much.
Uber in a Pandemic
"Happy Friday everybody. The information's forward one. Your weekly podcast. From the reporting people at the information the reporting people My name is Tom Dotan. I'm reporting person. Here's we've got for you on today's episode an Emir Friday one. I am talking to about ride hailing a lot going on in that space in the past couple of weeks hoover and lift had their earnings They weren't good folks not good They both are also laying off pretty sizeable amounts of their workforce as demand for ride hailing has fallen considerably during the pandemic so mere talks about what these layoffs really mean. And also why Uber has found itself in a slightly better position than lift because overeats which prior to this point was a bit of an albatross around its neck And there's an interesting also side story about Uber and jump in and Lime and how? These businesses are all kind of shifting places and positions during this period. That's my conversation with the mirror. We also for whatever reason talk about the meat packing industry and supply chains because we just tend to discuss whatever. He's tweeting about. Okay before I get to that interview. Which is a long one. Because it's an Amir episode Is couple of things that I want to plug so first off on. Thursday may fourteenth at five PM. We have a live video. Qna to discuss what we've learned from the Chinese platforms and how they've handled covert nineteen and also what global counterparts can learn from their experience. The call is hosted by our Jessica Lesson and global offering development and innovation lead for platform industry at accenture. Kevin Collins is quite a title Kevin and then Sort of an update on our annual W T F summit While we obviously had to postpone it It was startled. Me On Tuesday We are inviting members of the group. And anyone who signed up for the event to a subscriber call about start startups are navigating covert nineteen so I may twelfth K Clark Who covers venture capital for us? She's she's great Will be interviewing. We'll be interviewing. We'll be interviewing Laura Barons Wu the founder of Shipu founder and CEO of Shipu Amman Abu Zaid founder and CEO of incredible health and Heather hartness. Who is the CEO of Human Ventures? About some of the difficult decisions companies are making during these uncertain times for more information on both events email. Alexa at the Information Dot Com. Or you can check out our events website which is events dot the information dot com. Did it did it Kinda messed up the names. Sorry guys and girls Let's just get to my interview with all right. Amir a lot to cover in this conversation but given your expertise in the space. I wanted to make sure we started right at the top of interview talking about meat and the supply chain of meat In this country you've been tweeting about it a lot over the last month or so eight weeks So clearly you've taken a keen interest in you know this country's meat supply chain What's what's the latest on this Amir Can i? Can I go to the grocery store yet? Some ground pork you can for the most part. I think there are expected to be a lot more meat. Shortages story happening in in restaurants. And you will start to see more of that in the grocery store and it kind of cuts across. I think Red Meat as well as as well as pork been some really good journalism on the toll that cove nineteen is taken on meet workers. Another not really here. What we're T- we're what we are here to talk about but it's Pretty important thing that's been happening since this country is so in love with with me. Hopefully people Discover rediscover or discover vegetables. Vegetables are great and they will help you the fear in one of the reasons why I think covert nineteen is going to be tough for this country although I hope not is because This country is not healthy relative to some other countries that have done much better like northern northern Europe for instance so So that's kind of why I care about it and Really interested to see whether people discover any alternatives in the meantime not just like beyond me to impossible burgers but but also Vegetables found and trust me audience. We can move on after this what I found so deeply depressing about this whole storyline is everything about it. I mean both the treatment of the workers who are getting sick at rates far far higher than people in other industries probably because the nature of these jobs are all closely together and it's pretty cold in these factories. But also I mean you know if you've read the stories about all the animals have to be euthanized because they can't be held on the farms any longer and there's no slaughterhouses to take them. It's just like the the level of devastation. That goes into a decision. Like this or the pandemic is so deep and it just to me clearly reveals that we have a very very broken system. Yeah look I'm not by the way people are going to think like a Vegan or something. I'm not I love meat eating meat all my life boy. That's why you care about the whole process. Exactly I grew up in Iowa but I do think that these are really good times to kind of review factory farming and and You know the processing. Also of all these mates. It's pretty disgusting Gross Affair. You really don't WanNa see it once. You understand what it's actually like. You really want to eat meat a lot less or chicken a lot less. It's pretty gruesome stuff but but there are some quote unquote tech companies that are poised to do better biotech companies. Or you know we got. I keep thinking what would have happened if Google had acquired impossible. Foods that makes the impossible burger. They're doing they're doing so well. These days and poised to do much better now so they're probably happy they didn't sell right and I I mean we'll see a post. Pandemic level of investment is in these companies. You know a lot of already doing really well. Okay people are begging me to move on. How do I transition so well? Here's the thing. Obviously we're not talking about you. Know the level of unemployment and sickness in the tech industry as you are in In meat processing but there is a huge wave of layoffs. That have already come or going to come in ridesharing or sorry ride hailing which you is your predominant beat. You broke the news a week ago. Two weeks ago about Uber. Kind of starting to get really serious about laying off their workforce and it sounds to me like this week the first wave sort of took place that kind of with Uber. What what is the latest? Yeah so initially. I heard twenty to thirty percent of the workforce of this twenty. Seven thousand person. Company was going to happen. Obviously they have way way more drivers who are contractors and there's increasing debate about the kind of benefits that drivers deserve since a lot of them are out of work in her trying to find kind of food delivery grocery delivery or even warehouse. Work is an alternative Certainly after Some of the state government stimulus money runs out. Have to do that. assuming that the recovery in transportation in the core kind of Uber like Business will take a long time to to back up to normal so in terms of the layoffs at the company Yeah it's it's It's happening it started Earlier this week with customer support as well as recruiting sincere cutting people hiring and it's going GonNa get worse. 'cause BIG BIG CUTS ARE? GonNa come to you. Know Engineering and product and self driving car development there and All sorts of other areas. So they're all prepping for that And it will happen kind of within the next ten days or so so Yeah lift had layoffs last week and look I mean so. So many. Hundreds or thousands of startups venture backed companies of have been laid. People off. So you know if you're an engineer You may have a little bit more luck since engineering is you know always always needed somewhere but for other types of folks. It's you know it could be pretty pretty Ross out there for a while so and the reason why Uber and lift because these are huge layoffs. I mean that's more thirty percents even more than AIRBNB which you would think is one of the most directly affected companies in the tech world. I mean it's as simple as the fact that people just aren't people aren't taking cars right now right. I mean there just isn't a demand in the US for for the best service. Yeah that's right as we've been reporting for about the past month or so. The and and it was just confirmed by both companies this week when they had their first quarter earnings ride levels dropped two down eighty percent versus a year ago. So you know quite severe. And they're now slowly starting to recover and in some of the States that have Quote there's been there's been some more activity but the key markets are like New York and San Francisco Los Angeles That's where the money the real money is is is is made particularly New York in La for these companies. So I'm GonNa take a little bit longer there and Yeah so the. The companies basically said look. We're in for a prolonged recession here. So we've got you know they're basically planning for the worst and grab grab which is a ride hailing company in South East. Asia told us a month ago. They were preparing for two years of recession. And hopefully not that bad but in a recessionary period demand is going to be lighter on the flip side on the labor side driver's side That gets cheaper. You don't have to attract drivers are pay as much to quote unquote a acquire them are tracked him to to work for you. Same goes for food. Delivery Could be less demand but also you know if the recession kind of is prolonged but also on the cost side. It's less so it could end up being A really interesting case where. Somebody's food delivery companies that were just burning cash including Uber. Burning on ubereats. But you know door. Dash was burning although not to the same extent and delivery and other companies around the world were burning money because there were too many players in every market. It could be that now. They won't have to consolidate or merge one another in the same way that they were before they're I want to solve your second there because With Uber Lift. You have companies that have you know their core. Business is the same of Ride Hailing Uber has. This uber eats business. That has Been something more demand during this period. Were all stuck at home Has that been a benefit to them and like his in a better position because Uber eats exists. They are yeah they they would be there kind of overall gross bookings they have like this gross revenue number. It's not the money that they keep it. It's the money that's the kind of flowing into them through their APPs that would have been down by like eighty percents Right now but because they have food delivery it's only forty percent. It's GonNa it's GonNa be down more. I think on revenue because they usually keep smaller percentage of food orders than they keep from. Ride hailing but yes. It's been a lifeline for them. It's given them a mission. They're about to close acquisition of Grocery Delivery firm Corner Shop that operates in Latin America. I think Candida so they have. They have some softening Uber. Eats had been albatross around Neck for a long time because the competition was so brutal door dash had taken the lead and really couldn't keep up with them and they were burning more money or dash has been more efficient. Than Rita's it's been a really big problem so eats alone last year. I think it represented like one point six or one point. Seven billion dollars worth of cash burn For Uber. It's a ton of money but now that sort of slipped For the time being demand is through the roof because people at home and it doesn't cost anything to attract riders. So yes it's been. It's been a huge thing for them and actually took a dig at list in their earnings call yesterday. Uber did with the CEO saying that like other players. That don't have food. Delivery are being hurt more in a reference to lift so I think yeah lift wishes it were more than just rides. But it's not right so on the side business French who You guys also had the story about lime and kind of be increasingly entangled relationship between these two companies And then I actually want to ask you first about them but then also about lift and kind of what they're Lime types businesses doing so Basically the the short of it is that Uber and lead the round the new investment round in lime at a huge decrease in its last valuation and also kind of installed their executive is the new as the new head of lime. Is that right? So one of the one of the senior executives at lime which is basically the global leader outside of China in terms of electric kind of bike and scooter rentals One of the top lives there Previously worked for DR goes for shy the CEO Zuber at Uber and he moved over the line. I think is part of this deal for Uber to get rid of its own bike and scooter rental business and and essentially hand in hand. Hand the keys over to to line which was crushing Uber. Anyway Although still not necessarily a viable business Which we can get to in a second as part of that. Deal wainting This fella who been at line was made the CEO. And that's because Uber wants to keep a very close eye on its lime investment and sort of have the option to buy acquire lyme if if things work out as they they hope it will. So looked micro mobility space as we like to call. It has been pretty exciting and strange sort of industry to follow it has. There's actually a ton of debate. I hate to bring up twitter but lied to be on twitter yesterday. About what is the impact of these micro mobility firms whether it's bird or line more Lifts entrance on forcing cities to improve their infrastructure and do more like bike and scooter lanes and just kind of have a acknowledgement that there are these new forms of getting around I don't think the the rental side of this like being alive bird or an Uber. Jump which is now going to be ending. That was always a difficult model. Getting people to rent these things that was going to always going to be a difficult model because These vehicles break down very quickly. But I think over time as he's vehicles get cheaper and cheaper people are going to want to own these things already do. I think more and more people are going to own things especially if cities continue to make improvements in protecting writers so that people don't die when they're out there with cars so I still think in the long run these companies whether they succeed or not have been part of the growing like push to change cities from being so like focused on cars to also being to have mixed feelings on whether or not people are going to want to own these things. I think there's actually huge value in having it be a rental service because not a lot of I. I don't want to deal with the maintenance of a battery powered motorized bike which can be a problem and also a lot of buildings are Office building whenever we move back into it. Included does not have bike storage. Let's table this conversation. And let's do another podcast. No No. Let's where we bring Corey on and we can all debate this because I For once I actually have valuable insight that I could offer you guys on this topic and Corey cares more about this than anyone so Let's let's do this. This is a good topic. Sorry it's fine. Don't apologize on the PODCAST. Last thing I want to ask you about though is back. This is back to ride hailing so we ran his interview with a top executive from Didi earlier this week and that painted a relatively rosy picture in China about how demand was returning and then like a bleak picture about what it could look like in the US. What were your thoughts on on the? Dd exact talked to. Yeah yeah so I was I I really think that the the story which is is interview with a former Goldman Sachs bankers. Now one of the senior people at Adidi privately held The Uber of China. And they be in some ways are towing the company line or the. Party LINE LITERALLY THE PARTY. Line of China of we did a good job. And we're back or we're going to be back soon and everyone else is screwed and I think there is some exaggeration there. I also think there's some truth there but it's logical reasons and we all know we all know why I mean this country. China has already dealt with outbreaks before that we haven't dealt with including h one n one and SARS and so So they're just better prepared for this so I think they're they're lockdowns. Were more successful than ours. I think As far as we know. But I think there's some exaggeration there because I think that's just that's just how how things are betting. It is useful. It is a useful contrast. I I do think that there is evidence that transportation has gone way up in. China is not quite where it used to be but is close and Deedee is saying that that has thus recovered There were also laws preventing mass layoffs In China during this time which I didn't realize until we were at story And that's also a huge contrast to what we see in this country where there are mass layoffs have been mass layoffs. So it's really interesting I I think like Didi is not a public company so they have quite a lot of latitude in talking about the state of their business. Because we don't actually have all the numbers that we want is a re read with somewhat. Skeptical Evan all right. Amir last thing What are you watching? What's what are you? What are you streaming these days? Oh well I am watching the Jordan documentary on ESPN Netflix. It will be produced by Netflix. A little bit. It's coming in the summer to Netflix. But everyone's talking about it's like it's you know it's the closest thing to tiger king in the. May Twenty twenty period if tiger king was early April Jordan seems to be having Dennis. Rodman is the Joe. Exotic of May Rodman was so good. So Yeah I've been enjoying that. What else trying to catch up on Westworld. Although I'm told season three is is bad. Simon Season Two and What else do I want to see? I think Billions got started again. I I if you like like watching just pure raw like finance and capitalism battles than than that that's touch shows for you And let's see. Gosh what else am I watching? I'm not watching as much as I used to. So I am doing a lot of like reminiscing and watching soccer like highlights. Just remember sports this. Yeah but like from like this existing from like the season that came to a halt march on like watching stuff from January February march. Just like goals and stuff for my favorite team Which is Manchester United? Which is doing quite quite well up until up until better up the the halt so anyway folks following Liverpool which is supposed to be crowned champion first time in thirty years. But that's more than you needed to know. No it is and reminds me that we probably should have another podcast topping. Just about that but I won't be able to host it because I don't I don't I don't care good good good work as always thank you for joining and yet we'll have you back on to all right stay safe let's move.
Artificial Intelligence (AI): Risks and Rewards for Businesses with NYT Best Selling Author Martin Ford
"Here it comes again lunch. Lippi the same old same old or you ready to take a vacation from the ordinary with the new Jamaican Jerk Turkey sub at firehouse subs freshly sliced smoked Turkey breast crave ably sweet mustard sauce and a hint of Carribean seasoning just five fifty five remedium save time order the new Jamaican Jerk Turkey sub on the firehouse subs APP firehouse subs enjoy more subs save more lives participating locations limited time only plus tax prices may vary delivery today's show we have a New York <unk> times bestselling author of rise of the robots and he's joining us to talk about his new book architects of intelligence. Martin Ford is a futurist and author and he's just finished a book and AH talks with the best minds in our artificial intelligence and talks about three things about what's going on with A._I.. <hes> in terms of what's going on with central economic disruption the past towards getting towards true A._I.. Artificial General Intelligence as well as the risks associated with it and so Martin Welcome to confident R._O._I.. Thanks for having me US great to have caviar here and you've you've now you've finished up this book that you worked on in two thousand eighteen and it was talking with the best mind within a I in asking them covering similar areas but trying trying to bring it all together under one umbrellas that what was the purpose of this book while the purpose of the book is really to talk to these people and get some what you might think of his insider information about a from the people that know the the most I mean the thing is that it's becoming evident. Almost everyone that artificial intelligence is going to transform the world. I mean sooner or later there's a big debate over what exactly that looks like but almost everyone agrees that it's going to be hugely disruptive and so that's led did she huge amounts of hype and speculation and if you think people like on musk saying some pretty scary stuff <hes> so I you know I wanted to talk to the people that really know the most and these are people that within the artificial official intelligence community you know the people that researchers need to like rockstars these are the most famous prominent accomplish people and so I sat down with him have wide ranging conversations about future own and what day is GonNa mean it. I think it's really informative well into me now. It's kind of been a theoretical thing but it's starting to get more real world. There's there's been real world applications for me. I was reading the latest issue of wired wired magazine knows they're a issue and they had do it yourself. Examples of do it yourself a out and they literally they had these examples with <hes> was <hes> a guy at a Jackie heralded a small all dry cleaning chain in southern Japan nine exciting sexy business and and trump getting employees and he taught himself how to access A._I.. Type of us the programs and open source code didn't really speak good English but he actually was able to train his computers to recognize different types of clothing when it's placed on the towner which reduced the amount of time I'm in labor they needed and also got him towards it wouldn't even need someone necessarily in a store to to check in close and checkout close that to me was a real world example. You mentioned in the book that me news companies and he's now are actually using A._i.. To write stories is that accurate night they are actually a couple of companies. One is called Narrative Science and others automated inside of actually develops <hes> technology to do exactly that to write new stories and also do many other things <hes> so these are systems that can look at a scream of data and based on that figure out what's interesting story in that data. What is what is what are we important insights there and then automatically generate a very readable story <hes> at the end you can read one of those stories and it won't be obvious that it was written by an algorithm basically not by human journalist and and this is GonNa get to a lot of areas you know internal corporate reports sports <hes> it's already being applied to real estate listing show to kind of listings you see describing properties? Those are basically you know compelling. You know listings that are designed to invite you to to be interested. You didn't in a property but they're based on data to disticts about that property so algorithms are now doing that so this is GonNa be a very very powerful technology well. That's even I could see how you get a computer extract Okay and say Twenty Five Hundred Square Foot House with two bedrooms two bath but how do you get to talk about this attack. Euler view are in in his that the jeep learning that it's wrecking was one of the parts of A._I.. Is is out understand natural language right. I mean you can train these systems based on things that people have done so one approach to might be used in that kind of case is you might give this system them lots of examples of well written real estate listings written by people right and learn how to do that and then you would give it the data for ticket house and it would it would fire off something you know basically learn how to do based on those examples the same sort of thing that you see with language translation right where where you can go on Google translate and it can now do a pretty effective job but translating between any language is even Berry Obscure Languages that maybe you've never heard of it can do a remarkable oh job with that and it's all based on training system so the thing that is really revolutionary revolutionize artificial intelligence just within billy just within the last six years maybe ten years but really really just since twenty twelve has been the revolution in what's called deep learning or or deep neural networks and this is an idea. That's been around for decades going all the way back to the nineteen fifties <hes> but no one could really figure out how to how to really take it to the level where they could be used your lies in a practical way they can really do important things and that totally changed in twenty twelve when <hes> Geoffrey Hinton who's wanted to people I interview in the Book Architecture Intelligence. <hes> is team from the University E._S._P._N.. Toronto took a deep learning system and was able to just blow away the competition <hes> in a competition building a system to recognize visual images and that was the point when everyone woke up and realized this was really an incredible technology and that's really what got companies like Google and facebook and Amazon and all these other companies really really interested in this technology to the point where now they're making just a massive investments in and that's you know it's it's a combination of the fact that we had these breakthroughs big rich. <hes> prominent companies are putting so much money so much effort into this <hes>. They're attracting the very smartest people in the world to go into this field. It's all it's GONNA call up to into these things. There's really pushing the field <hes> Ford at a remarkable rate now and so that the University of Toronto there was a competition and the hidden team surprised everybody in wasn't. Isn't there was smaller right right so basically you. I I mean historically you know people have tried to get machines to to to have machine vision and to be able to look at a picture and figure out what you that picture right breath and and she's been nowhere close to people I mean people are just dramatically better than that. Just maybe ten years ago people said you know this is something that human beings are just uniquely good at looking at a visual image and figuring out what's their machines are just not anywhere close <hes> but in twenty twelve <hes> hinton's team using deep learning came closer than anyone had ever done before right so is a dramatic leap in progress. Yeah I mean it was still a lot less than what a human can do but really demonstrated that this this <hes> technology was gonna make remarkable progress and then since then as more and more research has been done more resources according to the field we have seen gene tremendous progress beyond that and we now have computer systems that at least in some cases outperformed people at recognizing visual images and that again is already having real applications. There's an iphone APP that which demonstrated at Stanford that was used by dermatologists to to take a photo of <hes> a skin condition right <hes> and determine whether or not that was cancer and that that system coming in one case has actually was able to catch a case of cancer that one of the top dermatologists in the country nist and potentially save someone's life and I mean that's already happened so in areas like radiology dermatology that are about medical imaging we're already seeing visual machine vision systems essentially that can can look at an image and figure out he's their candidate are not at a weight at a rate that some in some cases outperformed human doctors so that's pretty the amazing and that you know think of how important that is for the future right. This is a technology that will be everywhere so essentially what it means is that everyone everywhere in the world but potentially is going to have access to very best radiologists geologist's in the world looking at their particular image when he go to doctor right so it's going to have tremendous implications. Doesn't it near a screening standpoint then the radiologist is looking at the ones sounds that they should be looking at versus looking at a lot of them. Whether there's nothing right I mean and you get the thing that's happening is that systems can be connected sort of a second opinion. I mean the day may come when <hes> computers completely replace radiologists I mean I wouldn't rule it out at all because the systems are getting better and better that's not happening now but these systems are working together with doctors. She can have a doctor look at an image and and and make a judgment and you can also have the computer take a look and then you've got to opinions and then the doctor if they disagreed Dr Obviously we'll take another look right and this is what happened with the example. I just gave you so I mean it's any way you look at it. <hes> <hes> it's GonNa get better outcomes. I mean obviously the quality of doctors does vary right summer really good and some are not so good the here you have a chance to really democratize the very best medical expertise and you'll see this happy not just in radiology and imaging would also in medical diagnosis and and in many other areas as well in the Denso's so one of the things you talk to these the A._I.. all-stars ours are the experts that you described him and in talking about three things the first one being the economic disruption to job impact is going to eliminate the need for truck truck. Drivers is Kinda allies times. We'll talk about but the the issue here with okay are all the radiologists out of business not necessarily right. I mean he's still need. They're still there is some human judgment whether or not he he start cutting off Austat to two or growth the dermatologist right although that may be a different doctor making that judgment but <hes> you know for right now it's true you. Systems are not going to be replaced doctors. They're going to work with doctors as we don't know what the future will hold I can. I don't worry too much about doctors because doctors are incredibly skilled <hes> they have very high level of education are also protected by all kinds of regulations so even if a system can replace a doctor <hes> there are lots of regulatory regulatory and liability concerns that might prevent that from happening at least from a long time what I worry more about our people that are not as educated as as protected as doctors now think of the the office worker the Typical Office worker in a corporation someone's sitting in front of a computer cranking out the same report again and again doing the same kind of analysis that person is also going to be highly susceptible in part because of the technology we talked about earlier right the the thing that can generate a new story can also generate a corporate report or analysis right so these same kinds of techniques used in those areas and of course these workers don't have any where near the kind of protection doctors have in terms of regulation and so forth so they're going to be much more vulnerable <hes> someday we will have Bible self driving cars. I mean I think that will potentially take a bit longer than a lot of people are suggesting but eventually will happen and that of course will threaten millions of jobs for for taxi drivers and Uber Drivers and truck drivers I and all the rest and then they're going to be robots and fast food <hes> establishments that were placed workers. They're GONNA be robots in retail scores the robots that are already in Amazon warehouses distribution centers. You'RE GONNA get a lot better use a lot more dexterous thirty. They're going to be able to do more and more of the work. That's currently being done by people in those environments. All these things are going to happen so that is what I mostly wrote about. In my previous book rise of the robots the economic disruption <hes> the potential Angela Automation and my viewpoint is that there is going to be a disruption over we may we may not know exactly when that's coming but I think maybe within ten fifteen years. There's going to be a big impact <hes> but I also talked to everyone about that in <hes> architecture intelligence and got a lot different views <hes> most people believe there's going to be some level of destruction absolutely one really interesting person that I talked to in architecture intelligence is James Manyika who is the chairman of the McKinsey Global Institute and they you got a lot of research on this on so hard data and examples to give and <hes> so that conversation if you're really interested in the impact on the job market and on corporate <hes> worked in corporate organization Chen Metric really fascinating conversation to read is there already a split between the the larger companies with the resources and how they've used technology and the smaller companies that that just aren't technology centric because a excels guy amazing tools. There's a lot of tools within databases that could eliminate a lot of work but in smaller companies utilize versus versus a larger companies had breakfast with someone a day and he talked in a in a fortune five hundred company and they're constantly under push for head camp. which was how many people are you going to reduce this quarter this year and so there's a kind of constant drumming on one side versus the other other businesses that that aren't in earning the no they're not really getting the benefits of it right that isn't important distinction and it is true too? I there are many ways to look at it but it certainly in terms of the real artificial intelligence research. The people really creating the technology that is very concentrated currently within the big tech companies Google and Amazon <hes>. <hes> facebook and also Chinese companies by do tension Alibaba <hes> so those companies are really in a position to be able to afford the talent and they're really driving progress in terms of the concepts you know the the actual technology but the other thing that's really happening is that artificial intelligence is going to become like a utility is going to be like electricity. It's GonNa be everywhere. It's going to transform every business and that's happening in part in big part because of the steps that companies like Google have taken to actually open source their tools to actually take the tools more accessible and that that's the example you gave in the beginning about the die in Japan <hes> who used these tools to INA small business right that's possible because companies like Google have eraser the same thing right many of them facebook has also even a Chinese companies are <hes> open source a lot of their work and and not just open sourced at me. Make the code available but also have built tools to make it easier for people that don't have a p._H._d.. In artificial intelligence to use these that's really important and I think the war we're going to see going forward is a kind of an explosion in applications of this technology so you might think of that in terms of what happened with with <hes> <hes> IPHONE APPS and Android APPs right. I mean think back to win. The IPHONE was first released. There were only a few acts now. There's almost an unlimited you can't count the number of tried and if we consider both the IPHONE and android is beyond comprehension comprehension and it's just been an explosion right and that's happened because of all the thousands and thousands and thousands of people out there who have access to tools to make it fairly easy to develop APPS and they're doing it and you're gonNA see the same anything with they are so you're going to see a and also robotics applied to just all kinds of areas <hes> across all kinds of businesses that is going to make it more accessible onto smaller businesses as well as larger ones but I think it is absolutely true to every business. Every size is going to have to begin to understand this technology and figure out. How can they leverage it in their business model because if they don't they're going to be left behind? It would be almost like a company saying we'RE NOT GONNA use electricity right well. We just forego electricity. I mean no no business would be competitive if they did that. The same is going to be true artificial intelligence why maybe more recent one as as computers databases where some <hes> some held out and then it's just you can't you can't start a business without a computer right and and and so I will scale up to that sense and in some ways even more disruptive perhaps because it's actually going to you know we talk about companies one of their primary assets being our human capital right the value of their employees human element and that that's always going to be true I think but a I intelligence built into your your your system into your computers and how you leverage that is also going to be another incredibly important resource. It's almost sh you know similar in terms of the scale so I this is just going to be incredibly important for anyone that he's running a business or investing investing in a business or or thinking the business world at all this is I think literally the biggest thing is going to happen. <hes> in the coming decades I let's take our first break and we'll come right back and and talk about what's the <unk> asked what what needs to occur and what are some of the steps in that there is a magazine that companies this show so if you WANNA stay up to date on the latest ideas and trends you don't have to just tune in every week you can turn onto the new magazine. The company's at confident are oh I discover the right tool to improve your company and read articles like the one in the latest issue from Verne Harnish the famous Verne Harnish strategy or top grading with Dr Brad Read Smart is even a cure for your hiring headache and they're and even information on systems like the E._O._S. system than we've talked about so many others <hes> time here on this show and others all of that and more you can read confidently to find out real life tools to improve your company and take it to the next level. Just go find it. It's free that's right. The four letter word F. R. E. E. AT confident R._O._I.. Dot Com just like it sounds confident are Oh oh I know we're back with our best. Selling off their New York Times bestselling author and the author of the new book architects of Intelligence Martin Ford Martin Welcome back and <hes> let's talk about one of the things that <hes> for my listeners their business leaders and they're looking for tools advance their company as other technology side. There's always more terms dealer work and in a is no no shortage of new terms. I like in your book. You've put in not just a definition attorneys but you've described <hes> and tried to walk people through them so they can understand what are some of the important term zany understand <hes> with the well there there are a number of terms that are very important in artificial intelligence and you do need to kind of have some understanding of if you really going to have a good conceptual understanding of the field so for example there are different ways in which machines learned. There's what's called supervised learning which means basically providing <hes> many many any examples maybe millions of examples of data to a learning algorithm and then training it on that basis you an example would be training system to recognize images of animals so you would give millions of photographs each of those photographs of the label right. This is the dog. This is a cat. This is a cow and it's just been looking at millions of those would relearn how you do it so that's what's called supervised. Learning unsupervised burning is is much more difficult. It's more like what people do we learn without having all of those examples downpours right <hes> <hes> child calmer n- what the animals are without certainly being given millions of examples. That's actually one of the most intensive research areas in artificial intelligence is is figuring out how to teach machines to learn in an unsupervised way I <hes> then there's deep learning which is all about neural networks the hottest thing that's happening in artificial intelligence right now so it is important to have some understanding of what these terms are and what I did in the book is right a very brief. It's really only a few pages is that Kinda introduces these terms hopefully in a relatively painless way so he can quickly get a sense of what they are and what they mean and then after that you can delve into the interviews where you actually talk to your she talking to these he's been caught. Minds and artificial intelligence and cars will come up and of course those interviews and I'm and in many cases I actually asked these people to explain those terms and what you're getting here is the chance to talk in some cases to the person that actually invented this contract. You I think the guy that actually created this so it's a little bit like <hes> I imagine you know talking to Einstein and having him explain relativity relativity to you or something like that right these are really people almost at that level in terms of you know how prominent they are and they've invented a lot of this stuff and they actually explained some of these concepts to you and so she gets a primer and in the beginning where you can become more or less familiar with these terms in on delve into it <hes> in a little bit more depth. I think it's a pretty painless way way to do it. It's more interesting maybe than trying to read a textbook or something right. It would be very very dry here. You're actually engaging in a conversation and people are talking about how they discovered these principles and how are you going to be applied on wider import so I think it's really really quite a good resource for anyone. That really wants Kinda the inside track on a I you know this is a chance to get inside the minds of the people that are building this technology the most famous people in the world and find out what they really. We think about the future and journey anyone who is an investor for example unless to invest in a are wants to know how hey I is going to impact their investments. I mean this is I think a pretty good opportunity. I wouldn't pass it out myself your lot about going on the stock market and how much the machines are making decisions on buying and selling of stocks and for funds and things like data. There's quantitative funds rely on Algorithms is are they using a they're absolutely yeah. There's some companies like blackrock for example. <hes> didn't invest in his very very heavily have very high expertise Ortiz. They are building you know intelligent algorithms to trade stocks and in fact as as you may know most trading on the stock market is now out rhythmic spot. He's not performed by by Humid's and these algorithms are just incredibly capable of course they're incredibly fast so they make trading decisions. You know just miniscule fractions of a second long before anyone can even make decision to to reach or for button to push you know it's all finished y'all Graham is done on and and these algorithms can just as an example they can tap into machine readable news sources so companies like Bloomberg. They actually published news. That's in a format intended for machine story. Not People and machines can read this news much faster than any human being make sense of it and then trade on it. <hes> you know in in miniscule fractions of the second he's algorithms also they badly chartered. They do things like they place decoy trades and then they withdraw trades in order to try to bake out the competing algorithms or or human traders <hes> sort of already very sophisticated. Some people have said that in some cases the algorithms are really going beyond and what they're human ventures even fully understand and of course that does lead to risks right. I mean we saw a few years ago. The flash crash for example where some people think what happened there is a budget algorithms. There was kind of a herd instinct right where they all started did showing at once and there is a danger of that kind of thing all these trading rooms decide all at once to sell and that's that's not going to be good <hes> so that's kind of their team right. They get stuck you know he would but when the machines are actually gaining each other right. They're trying to figure okay. I think this is other is other someone else doing this so we're going to reactor their gaming it <unk> out and so they're they're gaming it out on a faster faster timeframe right. I mean you know it's happening. In in tiny fractions of a second you know I mean at a speed that no human being could possibly comprehend so so they interpreted that kind of competition timeframe. There's no there's no pace for a human trader at all they having to remember once there was a they had to pull the plug on one one system sure it's happened more than once but <hes> out of the House the human keep keep tabs on this. That's the machines are trading in billions of dollars. They monitor it. I mean they they see what's happening and they can monitor it a range but they certainly don't have control of it you know at the second by second level. It's much more of a macro view. <hes> and many of these systems are used more for short-term trading what you would fall day trading or <hes> and human beings probably still at these currently have more of a role in long-term by trading decisions but <hes> in terms of you know the timeframe of of seconds. There really isn't any way hey a human being control in control it would that kind of granularity I mean but <hes> so it's much more a case of stepping back sure so we are talking about the we talked about the economic disruption. We're talking about. There's there's a pass towards the human level artificial general deligence the A._G._I.. That's that's occurring now but it's still not quite there yet. They're against for example would be from was it. <hes> the movie talk two thousand one and our nine thousand. Is that that sort of human level of intelligence. That's what that's what we would call human level. Hey I or or A._G._I.. Artificial General Intelligence and examples would be like you said two thousand one space Odyssey <hes> the computer in the starship enterprise and star trek or or commanded data <hes> in the Matrix movies the agent agent spin it those were all machines that have human level intelligence <hes> and the probably said they exist only in science fiction. We don't have anything like that. In the real world you do have little very very rudimentary things like Alexa right you can speak to on some level but there's nothing close to human level intelligence there and in fact we're not most people think we're not very close to that and yet this has been sort of the goal of the build artificial intelligence twice since the very beginning when when Alan Turing wrote his first paper on A._I.. In nineteen fifty invented the turing test which is basically a cast or true intelligence that says if you can have a conversation conversation with a machine in a weighted it can deceive you so you can't tell it it's a machine another person down. We'll say okay. That's probably you know an intelligent machine and that was way back in nineteen fifty that was he was already thinking about that or we if you are anywhere close to that so one of the most interesting set of conversations in the book was everyone about what does it take to get there and how long might it be and there's lots of variance there. I mean <hes> show the more ambitious people like Ray Ray Kurzweil. A futurist and many people have heard of the guy that talks a lot about the singularity for example anything <hes>. It's just about a decade away by twenty twenty-nine. We'll have human level. I but that's a very aggressive prediction. Most people people think no way that's not going to happen. <hes> one of the other people I interviewed Rodney Book Brooks who is the <hes> Co founder of I Robot Corporation the company that makes the room butts. <hes> said it could be nearly two hundred years in the future two hundred years before the machine knows not to do the whole house just right one two hundred years before we have human level I chewed thinking yeah down with and have a conversation right and and it's interesting Christie not but to take that example to have a truly intelligent vacuum robot that that really understands everything you would want to know about vacuuming your house. You almost need to get to that pretty close to that level right to have that kind of intuition and the judgement so <hes> you know it it it could be quite a quite a ways in the future but in the meantime we've got specialized artificial intelligence right. We bought what we've got now machines that do specialized things that can power a self driving in car that can look at medical image and decided that cancer or not it can crank out a new story whereas nets but that's fine it. They're not they're not looking to do all kinds of things are not class the individual machines czar either playing the Chinese game go or their vacuuming vacuuming your your house. They're they're not doing everything right. That's right. That's an important distinction so they're doing specific things but the other thing the not forget. It's like I said there's going to be an explosion in the specialized things so there's not going to be one system that can do everything but there's GonNa be a million specialized ones they can do you know anything you want basically right that that at least anything that is under mentally benchley routine and repetitive in nature so in terms of the impact on the job market the thing to keep in mind as a lot of people do fairly specialized routine repetitive things right and you don't need human level artificial intelligence to do that. You just need specialized artificial intelligence to do a lot of that and there's going to be an explosion in those applications in the recent explosion is that related to how much data's now available and how if oh can Bernau machines can now access specialized data right so there are three things that really have made this revolution possible one is there's some real breakthroughs in terms of the technology things like we mentioned Jeff Hinton earlier right. He's one of the guys that really made this happen. <hes> the second thing is that computers have gotten dramatically faster right compared to what they were just a decade ago and it's just computing power is also making it possible. Eh third thing as you say is the ability of massive amounts of data. We're not collecting just incomprehensible amounts of data you know throughout the economy throughout society and this of course is especially true with the big companies like facebook and and Google <hes> bitch true it at many many other companies as well so that data is becoming essentially the training resource which is provided to these algorithm so that they can learn and that's it's the confluence of these things that is really making take off all right. It's <hes> he is always your head can spin on this but <hes> the feilding talk about one of the three point zero is talking about people they were in their vision of books. Was the risks associated with that. We've kind of touched on that. You're you're an expert on this Abbey. Feel about the risks with well. They're definitely important risks and it's important I think divide them into two categories. The first kinds of risks are the things that are definitely coming that to some extent already here things we know about that. We're going to face risks and challenges. Whatever you WANNA call him problems? We're going to have to solve their for sure GONNA would be on top of US within five ten years and even now the second category of risk is one that's mostly associated with true human level artificial intelligence or what's called Super Intelligence Meaning <hes> computer yawn human being in this is the kind of thing that you elon musk talking about saying that <hes> A I is is more dangerous than nuclear weapons or more dangerous than North Korea and all this kind of stuff with you. The bit over the top what he's talking about is the threat from true thinking machine that would would on its own of its own volition decided to do things that would be harmful to us okay and that's science fiction. Okay I think that could be a legitimate concern and one of the people I've talked to in the book Nick Bostrom who Rota A bestselling book called Super Intelligence about this. He's he's absent person who's really given the most careful reasons com analysis of this okay so it is a real concern but I think it's something that is probably at least fifty years in the future. Maybe even more right so it's not something I think we should be worrying about right now. 'cause it distracts just distracts this neck. I category of risk which is the things that are coming at us in the immediate future to think that we really do have to worry about and the things that I would put on that list of risks is when we talked about the impact on job Merck a lot of jobs could disappear inequality could increase a lot and that's GonNa tear society apart right. It's GonNa put enormous stress on on all the social fabric fabric and also on the economy so that's one thing but then beyond that there are many other issues security is very important as we lie more on economists systems more on artificial intelligence those systems in turn become more susceptible to cyber attack or hacking because there's not a person they're running things right. Human is now out of the loop. He's machines are just running themselves so if someone can can can hack into that and change the behavior of that system in a way that that causes it to not work or worse turns it against us in some way. That's really dangerous right so this is one of the biggest issues that <hes> we really faced with A._i.. And it it's happening now right. I mean it's not something thing that's far off in the future. It's happening that is already a very important concern. <hes> another area e potential for bias in some algorithms. We've seen <hes> algorithms used in hiring for example. I think there was a case of an algorithm used the Amazon where it was shown to be biased against <hes> both women and people of Color for example I and this happens not because someone sits down and designs an algorithm to be biased they don't do that but he's out. Britain's remember are trained on data and that data often each generated by people and if the people are biased than that bias will be reflected in that data and then it can be picked up in those algorithms and applied applications. That's a real concern on a lot of people I talked to in the book mentioned that are actually working on ways to fix that <hes> and actually that could be kind of a hopeless story because in theory fixing bias in an algorithm is a lot easier than fixing bias. I assume people so we can imagine a future where maybe algorithms are used more to make certain kinds of decisions and that's actually a good thing because the algorithms are less class because we figure out how to address this problem. <hes> another area is privacy <hes> in China in particular day using artificial intelligence and Berry dystopia ways right. They're building an Orwellian surveillance day. They've got facial recognition everywhere ray. You're using information gathered to facial recognition Asian do other A._I.. Technologies to create a social ranking system for everyone in China meaning you have you're GONNA you're GonNa have like a review kind of like on Amazon like a book light half your mind when you're so was a social score her social <hes> dry social social rating basically and that would be based on you know you post something. That government doesn't like on social media. You're going to get dinged right. You're going to get a lower score. <hes> you do so saying the catch the the the computers calculating a if you if you're using these kind of words or probably not compliant to the government's right right or even beyond words concept the the systems are getting better to understand. You know you're posting something that's not in line with the thinking and it's not just that it's even the pace you go. If you go to places to government doesn't like people to go if you're so those no I. I don't know everything they said it right <hes> eat. Maybe even if you suppose you buy too much alcohol and they track your purchases. They don't like that they'll downright you and if you have a lower ranking maybe you don't get to send your kids to the best school. Maybe it's harder for you to buy tickets for trains or or or or airplanes things like that so they're really using this in a way to control people and there's a real danger that this technology especially as its perfected in China will gradually cheap out right to the rest of the world and begin to have the impact <hes> governments use technology and Various Way O.`day. Could I mean even even in the West <hes> <hes> there's always this trade off between security safety and and privacy right that people worry about crime they worry about terrorism so as they were about that more that will be more. It calls for more surveillance more facial recognition so he run the risk of we really have to be careful treading that needle right because we go too far we end up really in an Orwellian situation so all real concerns about <hes> artificial intelligence <hes> and yet another one is is weaponization the the threat of using artificial intelligence to build truly autonomous weapons. This is something that a lot of people that I talked to in the book <hes> really talked about many of Obama signed petitions promising to never work on weaponized artificial intelligence or or truly autonomous weapons on because it's rarely scary. One of the people I talked to Stuart Russell actually made a video called slaughter bots and you can find on youtube and it's really terrifying shows you how autonomous drones could be used as weapons to to to assassinate people and things like this like thousands of them in swarms and and this is something that again it's not really science. Fiction is something that could happen in the next decade or so fire of a scary thing happen. The Middle East that hasn't been talking about the press was a country us well. The people are fighting doc against the more established country is the name they they put c four with a drone and out an explode above a airplane it was just on the on the tarmac and it costs to Korea damage. They're like that's the weaponize robot that's right <hes> and you know most of that is happening now. It's it's drones that are being flown by someone what's really terrifying if that becomes uh-huh completely autonomous and then maybe instead of one drone or a few drones dome by a few people you got a thousand of these machines there's just economists doing you know using facial recognition to determine target and attack somebody just completely autonomously that that's a really terrifying scenario. That would be very difficult to control so that's that's kind of happening in cyberspace now where entities are directing in computers to attack other computers exactly right by so even even the example we were talking about Wall Street earlier right where you've got algorithms battling each other <hes> at this incomprehensible space you you know at a at a at a time frame that no human being could deal with I think eventually you could see the same thing on a battlefield where you've got robots battling each other at our rate and making decisions at a rate that at no two and being would be able to deal with and that's kind of sh the risk of of this technology going forward sure not not the greatest picture near the end of our talk today. What about the good stuff wet? What is some of the good senior? We talked about being able to find some cancers that maybe some of the best trained doctors nest <hes> what was the good side of a well. I think that there are enormous good sites and overall in the long term. I'm I'm an optimist. I you know I wrote this book rise of the robots about how a lot of jobs this can be destroyed soy often characterized as someone. That's very pessimistic because I believe that can happen but the truth is an optimist. I believe that artificial intelligence can be the best tool to humanity has ever had to solve a lot of our problems and essentially what we're doing is we are expanding our intellect right. I mean if you think about it. Everything that exists in our civilization the entire reason your life is much better than someone who lived a hundred years ago is because of our intellectual capability our creativity our ability to create technology to build things to solve problems so what we're doing with artificial intelligence is we're going to put down on steroids right. We're going to expand that. We're going to for the first time really take that beyond and what human beings alone are capable of and I think that has enormous implications for helping US solve the most important problems so we're GONNA she'd benches in medicine. We're going to discover new drugs. I one of the people I interviewed Daphne. Caller started a <hes> a startups is typically using a machine learning to discover new drugs and that can actually be done systematically so that <hes> rather than having a bunch of people you know playing around with test tubes in the laboratory. You're actually doing this. No Oh very rapid systematic way. That's going to be disruptive. That's gonNA mean major breakthroughs in medicine <hes> in terms of human health <hes> so we can get help us live longer but doing different things that's right exactly exactly and <hes> we'll see breakthroughs in science and energy clean energy <hes> <hes> problems that can't you know technologies to help address climate change. All of these things are going to arise is through the application of artificial intelligence going to become the most important tool in our toolbox and at the same time you know I've talked about jobs disappearing but the other side of that of course is production gets more efficient right that everything is cheaper so we're going to have in the future three d printer that can print <hes> homes. Probably you know they will get lot cheaper to have robots or Big Three D. printers built homes housing gets cheaper. We're going to have self driving cars so that transportation gets cheaper faster and much safer <hes> so across the board. They're going to be many many benefits to humanity but the challenge we face is to address of risk that I talked about in particular I think the potential for inequality and job losses this is something humping that we have to think about figure out what to do about and that's a reason that I've talked a lot like in in my book rise of the robots and also in my head talked I talked about the potential for Sunday having <hes> a basic income universal basic income as one way to address crush that right sort of our solutions we can talk about to address the risks the downsides sort of we can leverage all this good stuff. It's coming on behalf of everyone and it can be a very positive story. It's not going to be easy to do that. It's going to be very challenging politically but I think it's a challenge. Ultimately we're going to have to face and overcome well. Maybe they write the the algorithm to identify the auditions that are correct and <hes> <hes> them the system hopefully or maybe we'll even have politicians. It will be very efficient very honest at some point in the future. A lot of people think that my good thing probably everyone except the politicians anything's possible well. Thanks for joining US Martin if people are interested in working to get your book and learn more by what book is on Amazon so it's architecture intelligence. The best way to connect with me is on twitter I met 'em Ford Future on twitter. Every day. I try to post interesting links about A._I.. And robotics and what's going on so as you could face to see news and <hes> you can also learn a lot more about <hes> the latest book architects Architects Intelligence M. Ford Future on twitter Okay Oh put out in the show notes page as well and thanks for joining us today and <hes> ought to think about digest two to use my Edwin intelligence great thanks for having me Napa Napa auto parts stores of Napa Auto Care Centers at Twenty Five Dollars Prepaid Visa Card. When you get any map automotive battery? It's the best deal for some of the fest batteries from some of the best car people around but we might be a little partial any pick up any nap automotive battery and save eight twenty five bucks. Do It yourself or have done for you. That's NAPA know how I know how that participating Napa auto parts stores and NAPA auto care centers while supplies last offer ends eight thirty one nineteen. Will your child be ready for.