16 Episode results for "howard ashman"

FOF #2893  Howard Ashman: the Man Who Gave a Mermaid a Voice and a Beast a Soul

Feast of Fun

1:40:38 hr | 2 months ago

FOF #2893 Howard Ashman: the Man Who Gave a Mermaid a Voice and a Beast a Soul

"It's hard to imagine Disney without its iconic animated musicals but the eighties after several box office bombs Disney considered never making animated musicals again thankfully after playwright and lyricist Howard Ashman breakthrough success with his oddball musical comedy, little shop of Horrors Disney Ashman to work with them and the little. Mermaid. A film that became so successful that it kicked off what's now known as the Disney Renaissance in the new Disney plus documentary Howard we get a rare look at the amazing work and career of Howard Ashman whose life was tragically cut short when he died from. AIDS and nineteen ninety-one Midway through the production of beauty and the beast and Aladdin Howard never saw either of these films finished and his surviving partner collected. Oscar for best original song beauty and the beast today musical theater enthusiast, Jake police CMO from the Youtube Channel dream sound joins US take a look at the amazing musical legacy of Howard. Ashman. We're coding and Disney films and beauty and the beast as an allegory for society's betrayal of people with a I'm fausto fairness. I'm Mark Pilion and this is feast of fun. Do you really think she love you? Will you in love with Hub East? Did you honestly think she'd want you when she had someone like me? These fun is made possible because a fierce fabulous people just like you support the podcast that you love join us at Patriotair Dot com slash feast fund, and access thousands of legendary podcasts at our archives at FEASTA fund dot com slash plots, and subscribe to our Youtube Channel to fund our twitter fees to fund our instagram. Holiday anywhere. That's fun to be had. Feast Fund. Is there. Thank you. Before we begin, let's listen to Howard Ashman singing part of your world from the Little Mermaid. This was a recording demo that was created for the development of the motion picture. I WANNA. See. WanNa. Dance. Walking around on those. com. Ziadeh. Roll along down. Wanted. A. Hello Hi this Jake Belly Mall yes. Hi, an Ex `bellissimo your. Friend like me. This foul mark from fun how you doing today good. How are you? All doing? We are enjoying your amazing videos about musical theater and Disney, and the Queer intersex malady in dream sounds on Youtube. Thank you so much. I'm glad that you came to join us today I. Wanted to dedicate a whole show to the amazing Howard Ashman who through his life and through a struggles he gave the greatest gift of all amazing Queer Music to the world to sing and enjoy and love for generations to come and I wanted to start off by talking about your work, jake and your videos. Why are musicals? So Gosh, Darn Gay and popular with lgbtq folks. It's a long answer to make a long story short there were a lot of intersecting art forms. In, the late nineteenth century, both in Europe and the United States that kind of found popularity with lgbtq communities. One of the most probably the easiest one to say is is OPERETTA and specifically Operetta in France specifically in Paris where composers like Jack Often Baugh were composing music that appealed to kind of an underground culture that was going on at the time and a lot of operatic kind of had this reputation of not being as serious as the more mainstream format of opera. Musical theater history we went sore from a Vaudevillian approach where people pay nickel to see a bunch of. razzle dazzle and musical numbers and juggling and slapstick comedy, and then We started gravitating historically I think with Oklahoma where the song and the dance advanced the plot and even with Roger and Hammerstein's Oklahoma. There's already songs about women enjoying the advances of men, which is very queer. Keys. I know she yard to give his face a smack. saw. Me I somehow SORTA WANDA KISS. When lights are low arcane be Perc- and coins. Tied the CAN. Be What Yes definitely, and with that became an understanding that musical theater was about unfulfilled desire about outsiders with forbidden angst and Forbidden Love, which obviously speak so much to the nature of what being lgbtq is is is this literally with Howard? Ashman and the Little Mermaid, it's a fish out of water story. Yeah I mean, and there's also a lot of precedent in the source material with Hans Christian Andersen's life and a lot of Florence merged to form musical theater and one of the common themes of a lot of those art forms was the fact that there was a developing underground culture that spoke heavily to Lgbtq people and even Mel Brooks in the Broadway production of his film. The producers has a Song Abou how musicals are Witty and pretty and gay metal? On stage. Keep it gave. Me Him rage. And it's a pain keep it. Gay People want laughter when they see a show the last thing there after Zlatan Neil. Happy Real pep. To bomb if he winds up. Keep it. Keep. It Gang. In terms of like your passions and Interests Europe musician who is very much invested in musical theater. Your husband is a a scene designer, right? Yeah and and and tell me more about like your attraction, your history like what why do you care or excited about musical theater? I mean you dedicate so much time and energy and making all these amazing videos, right? Yeah. I am when I was younger I grew up in Connecticut so right outside of New York City and I would see musicals when I was younger with my family and I kind of had this Very modern relationship to musicals in a way where like my main experience with them was through headphones and so I didn't really think about the songs within the context of the shows. But I just thought about the song within the context of my life and so growing up and kind of also being involved with. Like punk music scenes of time, which are typically heavily involved with this idea of the person being inseparable from their songs I, kind of applied that relationship to music to musical theater and so I think that's why I developed such a personal relationship to it and I think a lot of lgbtq people can also attest to that. That is kind of an inherent. Quality of like said like longing and desire that is so played up in musical theater and translate so well to queer experience. So well of loneliness come to life, right? Yeah. Definitely. But you know in terms of Albania lgbtq, there's a performance aspect to it. We either are performing who we're not or where performing who we'd like to be and in terms of like our attraction to. Creative spaces like musical theater, a theater in general. For. A lot of people especially, the United States it is a safe space to be before the advent of lgbt youth groups came to be and so for me in high school seeing little shop of horrors was such an important film and in doing musical theater, it was like a place where I could excel I could shine I could be celebrated and so part of it is like I think in terms of what we're speaking to is is that space that is created for Lgbtq people is why we're so attracted to musical theater and in terms of like I, think about going to Disneyland or Disney world before the Disney renaissance. It wasn't the same experience and it very much felt like going to a museum of old movies. There was nothing new in at. Disney. I ever went to Disney world was in two, thousand six. So he went after the Disney Renaissance Yeah and so you have people who may recall going to Disneyland or Disney world felt very much like you're visiting the Tiki Bird Room, you're visiting snow. White you're visiting space mountain but these are all attractions that were created decades ago, and it was very much of a visit of nostalgia in the Eighties Disney was dying. There was waning interest in going to the Disney theme parks and part of that was because they were more like museums than they were new exciting attractions and then later Americans developed a taste for queer culture and theatre. was. A Howard Ashman was friends with David Geffen who I believe at the time was in the closet I wasn't he married Takano Raves. Secretly married to Kiana rooms. Are Business Partners, who count arrays no Howard Ashman David Geffen also Howard Ashman and Alan Menken met through the Liman Angle musical theater workshop, which is legendary still to this day Robert. Lopez who wrote let it go met his wife there. Here's a clip of an interview with frozen songwriters, Kristen Anderson Lopez and her husband Robert. Lopez. Who wrote the legendary song let it go and how it shaped the entire film and once again, the queer themes of coming out of the closet pop up again. You have near who sings with this amount of. She couldn't be the villain anymore and we put ourselves in the mindset of someone who Leave. Everything behind and be stuck out on the mountain and how cold and scared she would be at that moment in singing. Goes wide on the mound. Not Afraid. A kingdom? Relation and On. How? This swirling stormings. Couldn't keep it in heaven knows And then. Don't. Let them see being. Always have to be concealed don't. Don't let them. Well now. Now. Tell doesn't much better than I do. But. Once once you find once we found that song we had building blocks for the rest of the movie. Some really great collaborators came together and. You know got fell in love with each other through the musical theater workshops and. And change their lives and their careers forever. And in terms of like auditioning for that workshop, you have to cement three songs has to be an I. Want Song was like look at this. Isn't it neat. Right. And then there's an example of a charm song which allows us to bond with the characters. When we have absolutely nothing in common like another see another see sorry I'm saying the simpsons version kids everything's GonNa be. Fine I'll go upstairs and pack your bags. We're GONNA start a new life. Under the sea. A Know. Done just league I. On. All. Hamamatsu solution to everything. It's Not. With Dad, your dad razzle dazzled by this magical world were being transported into, and then a comedy song is a song. That sort of makes us forget about the dramatic tension that's being built up right. So it tends to be something that a secondary character sings and you know like I would say like, Gusto? In beauty and the beast is kind of a comedy song but it also. Advances the plot no one slickest guests done. No one's quick. Neck says incredibly thickness guess Tom for there's no man in town is Manley. Picked up your parents gun you can ask any Tom Dick or Stanley and they'll tell you whose team they preferred. Mike. And Mike Now? No one's. Well cleft Chin like guest. Sermon Simon. Day. Off. Her. Guests Donny's Nook then the rest is. And I'm at the core of this musical theater workshop and everything that we're talking about is the idea of song or dance needs to move the narrative forward that you can't just like capture a moment in a song and finish it in I. Think like you know Howard Ashman really was instrumental in pushing people in Pushing Disney. Musical Theater in general just to think about that in a really deep way. Yeah I think he was a huge proponent of when they were Little Mermaid of forever linking the formula in musical? Theater. Miller there's like a legendary talk that people always reference in the production meetings for the Little Mermaid where the Disney crew invited him to speak and he gave a speech about the history of the development of the American musical and he famously put it alongside the. Development of the Disney animated film and he drew a lot of conclusions and drew a lot of parallels between the two. But. There was definitely a difference between what Disney musical is during the renaissance through now and what it was before least in my opinion like for example, film like Snow White has to I want songs but there aren't really the there are musical numbers, but they aren't as integrated into the film as something like the Little Mermaid and Howard Ashman. Instrumental in consciously coating that into the fabric of Disney musicals using the the format of the I want song and having like exposition opening numbers, and all of these things that happened because Disney was a company that released films that had very popular songs in them but weren't necessarily conscious decisions in the same way, and that forever changed the formula and also kind of just allowed Disney to have this revitalization that was the. Renaissance because before the songs were just kind of like little diversions, right they'd sing a little song about like whistling while you work there's not really a whole lot going on with that. It's just like something a happy song right and then eventually kind of morphed is like we have to change this music into a song that's going to advance the plot, get people to understand the people's motivation and where they're going with us. Yeah, there is definitely a difference between the kind of I guess what I would say pre book musical. Pre Oklahoma type of show that focused on entertainment before narrative and then yeah what Howard Ashman was doing, which had a very explicit narrative focus. In terms of you know Howard Ashman contribution. It's not like he just waltz into. Disney and pulled everybody and said, all right everybody that's how it's going to be or did he? No not really because after the success it was it was little shop of horrors that was obviously very successful and then there was smile in. Nineteen eighty-six of Marvin Hamlet. And it's interesting because there's actually a song in that called Disneyland or one of the characters romanticize wanting to live in Disneyland even though she knows it's fake. I. Maybe, Solo. Fake. Out Sake. bigly. Deus. Did. Get to. Stay. It was a ninety-six six that he was asked by Disney to participate in a movie called Oliver and company an animated film Billy Joel in it, and he wrote the lyrics for a song called once upon a time in New, York City and it was around then that the van that they then presented them with some ideas about which movies if they were to be hired, which ones would they want to work on and Howard Ashman set the Little Mermaid. And so Geffen Records David Geffen who's gay his record label Geffen records did the soundtrack for little shop of horrors David. Geffen was instrumental in pushing for Howard Ashman and Alan men can go to California to work with Disney and he's the one who introduced into Disney Executive Ach. Jeffrey Katzenberg who was like practically begging Howard Ashman little shop of horrors was such a success mean what was the last time you had a movie musical come out and people I saw little shop of horrors in the theater three times. That's unusual. The only other move on three times in the movie theater was ninety five. South. You'd see why aesthetic is but you know for for a place like Disney they see something like that and they're like, okay, this is weird fantastical horror. Musical and look how big it is and they you know they had had such failings with some of their other works when I was in high school, it was like. A. Grade School actually won. The what was the black hole came out back cauldron? Was a movie the Disney made, and then it just seemed like one terrible Disney movie after another and people just kind of stopped going to Disney movies and even when little. Mermaid commandos probably like. In College by that point in time, we were just kind of like. Forget about it I. I didn't see the Little Mermaid until like you know maybe twelve or thirteen years ago because I just kinda slept on it because. Know at the time that came out we were just so over the Disney films. But of course, like when beauty and the beast came out, I was I was ready for it because I had seen the John Cocteau film I'm like Oh i WanNa see what Disney does with this and how it works and you know I saw with a friend of mine and she's a you know a very liberal. Feminist you know and she was just like she was super impressive because she thought. Disney 'cause we we came from the same era and we're just going to be like Snow White. Cinderella. Waiting for her MANIKAM and here was a self-confident woman who is just like I'm going to do this for my family I'm going to go out there in the world and then she meets this guy this monster and falls in love something. That is so interesting about the narrative of beauty vs there's a really good video sas on Youtube Lindsey who has a video where she talks about where she talks about how beating the beasts is. It has nothing to do with the woman. doesn't have much to do with the women being trapped by man as much as it does with two men trying to have control over a woman. And that tension between guests and the beast is kind of the narrative focus but it's interesting because Howard Ashman also changed the narrative of eating the. Beauty and the beast they were brought in the film was failing as a non musical and they were brought in Alan Menken and Howard asked more brought in to turn the film into a musical like they did with the little. Mermaid. And Howard Ashman actually pushed for the beast to also be viewed as kind of a main character in the story. And that definitely changes that definitely adds more sympathetic. To the story that. Wasn't always there in previous adoptions of the of the and you see Jean Cocteau's version. He like the beast is her family is jealous that she's living with his beast and house all these riches. So it's like they're the ones that are going to tackle. So you can see how the love interest kind of raises the stakes a little bit, but there's always a queer angle to everything you know and to give people a perspective of what it was like in the late eighties for any gay man working in musical theater New York City we're dealing with the high of the AIDS crisis. You have a society that has villain is queer people throughout our lives throughout history and right kind of similar parallels to the covert pandemic is that people there's no preparation and the Republicans who are in charge of the federal government decide that it's best just to let people die than actually spend any money in addressing the AIDS crisis and so one way that activists and you know just people in the lgbtq world were. Thinking about is we needed to tell our stories. We need to get our narratives, our voices out there, and so lick. Even this podcast you know is a consequence of this idea that you know you have only one life to live fearlessly be yourself tell your story, tell other people stories and get them out there for the world to see and it was only really I think generation of people doing that and having. That approach that really I think changed America's views on homosexuality on an and I think you know the way we think about transgender people today is also a consequence of that. It's not that like corporation said, Oh, we want to change the world. So let's have lgbtq people tell their stories on our channels. It was that lgbtq people were telling their stories and those stories were so endearing compelling and heartwarming that these corporations. Had No other option, no other choice, but to make money off of them and include them in their programming, and so there was a symbiosis that started occurring and that's why I think people today have a very different perspective on lgbtq. People than they did in the late eighties and I think for someone like Howard Ashman, it was very critical actually that he's not just a lyricist for Disney, but he's a producer for the. Little Mermaid. So when Jeffrey Katzenberg, wanted to cut out a lot of the songs because they were nervous because they weren't testing well with audiences especially, one with them was part of your world. Howard, Ashman said to Jeffrey Katzenberg over my dead body and considering that he knew he was HIV positive that time you can imagine the gravity of statement like that. Yes. It means something completely different today than it did in the late eighties. Yeah. It's interesting. It's interesting how what you were saying about queer subtext and the ability to either speak openly or covertly it's interesting just how in something like the Little Mermaid that already has queer subtexts built into it. From, Hans Christian Andersen. It's interesting how that send transferred and I mean there's no. Primary sources of Howard Ashman, we're doing this because this, but it's hard to not believe that he was aware of that and consciously thought of that while working on the film especially because there were as as you probably already know. The drag Ursula, the sea witch. was coated to look like divine. Howard Ashman from Baltimore Maryland He. Age At where everybody in Baltimore knew about John Waters is films he much had. An appreciation for camp for for trashing for outrageousness for drag and you know Alan Menken said in many interviews that Howard wrote songs as a reflection of his own life that part of your world definitely is an allegory for people wanting to be long. And and You certainly see beauty and the beast I think is a very interesting film because it's it's it's written from the perspective of somebody who knows they're going to be dying soon from AIDS. and. So his that I mean that the song kill the beast it it's kind of hard. It's kind of difficult to listen to today because we're dealing with. So many of the same issues with trump and the pandemic it's a little sad that we've not really as a society sort of learn from these mistakes that we made in the past and we're still dealing with the same kinda angry villagers that want to burn things down. Yeah, I think I think it's so unfortunate when people when people criticize usually very lazily in my opinion criticized his new film for for just having not good stories because I think feeding the beast. Is such a compelling story that has so much power even beyond what's written in the text and yeah, it's hard to not view those songs as a reflection of what was happening Howard actions life and we know now also from other songs from testimonies like for example, he worked on Aladdin before they ended up scrapping his treatment and going with the what would be the ninety two version. But in his version of Aladdin, there was a song sung by Jaffar the villain where he it's called humiliate the boy where he strips down Aladdin Strips of everything he has, and at the time, of course, Howard Ashman was was dealing with AIDS related. And their testimonies that it seemed very obvious where the where that was coming from and it kind of became very tragic in a way to hear him present the song. They do show a little bit of that song in the documentary. Howard. That's on. Disney, right now, which is our inspiration for doing this but you mentioned the source material for the Little Mermaid. The Hans Christian Andersen Fairy Tale, and for some the listeners out here who may not know as they say that Hans Christian Andersen had a crush, he was most likely game man and he was in love with. A man who would never be able to return his affections and that's when he wrote the Little Mermaid he was the little fish lady that couldn't ever find love. Yeah. There was no outward declaration his life, but there was a clear romance whether or not that was just sexual romantic with men and yeah, and as a result, a lot of his stories, kind of carry this Queer Association with them and the Snow Queen which is inspiration for frozen. and. So it is interesting sort of how this This artistic John Ross sort of really speaks to people who are struggling with being seen and heard, but also fulfilling their desires. Yes, I think I think that's kind of one of the view really beautiful things about how options work. Especially, it's queer context I grew up in a kind of conservative of Connecticut even listening to songs like part of your world or like the bell in beauty and the beast I didn't know I wouldn't identifies until many years later and that I wouldn't identify. As Trans Non Binary until years after that but at the same time I, think about those memories of listening to the songs and kind of empathizing with the characters but not really understanding the feelings and so I think that's a very powerful thing when you can kind of communicate this emotion that allows people to maybe even subconsciously process who they are before they even know yet. Yeah. It's kind of bittersweet that. Never, got to see or hear the finished beauty and the beast. In hospital bed and That a tested, very well with critics, and then he died shortly thereafter and then husband while his partner at the time because they can legally get married had except the academy award on his behalf. Now there's a there's a question and maybe you might know the answer to this. His been was an architect who was developing a home in upstate New York for them to work and live in and as I understand did were they able to ever move into that house before he passed away or with the house not constructed? Do no I thought I had thought they moved into it before he passed away because it's kind of. Documentary that they made it pretty clear that they lived in that home together, and that's why I'm asking because I saw conflicting information elsewhere about it and I just imagined that it must have been like emotionally hard for surviving partner to be dealing with this. Physical location that he built for them and be inside that home is hard after you've lost. Somebody was so much potential who gave to a so much in such a short amount of time. Then passed away and I wonder like you know in terms of like Howard Ashman do you think his experience as a person with AIDS drove his ambition to try to create so much work in such a short period of time I think it's hard to say without any direct quotes, but it would it would make sense to me because he was obviously. So dedicated to to his craft up until the day he passed that it would make sense to me that he would also be heavily invested in using the time he had part of it is like he in one, thousand, nine, hundred. Eighty eight he he didn't WANNA get an HIV test because he feared he would lose his health insurance and job opportunities. The that was the thing back in the day it was like that's why you wanted to get a novice testing. If you went to game in South Center, it's just it's not they made it very clear. This is an anonymous testing and that was part of the big change in how we were responding to the AIDS crisis was being able to make anonymous HIV and STI testing accessible to people everywhere. It's still like a testament to Republicans and conservatives shortcomings that they still to this day fight that our ability to respond to any kind of disease is something that's. Severely held back because they're politicizing the act of getting test. Like, in terms of like Howard Ashman death, I've read about Howard Ashman 's death aum the day I went to my first pride March in Austin Texas in Nineteen ninety-one and to me something that really like affected me deeply because I felt like in a Lotta ways as a fan of his work through little shop of horrors and beauty and the beast and the Little Mermaid I felt like a lot of ways that there were so much that if felt even like Aladdin feels like an unfinished masterpiece they had bring. In other musicians and artists to finish the work and I do remember even with Lion King there was a little bit of resentment that and that was part of the reason they even Brent brought an Elton. John was because they wanted gave voice inside their shaping the Disney films I think lion king works as a musical but I think certainly like a film like Tarzan and even a other subsequent Disney musical films. They really don't have that magic that that ability for those songs to stick so so deeply. Ask anybody they can sing friend like me. They can sing part of your world. They can sing on, let let they can sing. Let it go by Robert Lopez. And I don't know. I wonder if like you know in terms of like the success of a musical song, something more magical more ethereal butted is is. Is it love is it? Is it a sense of longing or sadness? These songs cannot be made in a vacuum they can't be made through a corporate boardroom. This is something that has to stem from people's desire to struggle and to celebrate their lives. Yeah. I think I. think that's a very complicated moshing to answer because I think the nature of like some rating is so abstract but I, think I. Think what made Howard Ashman work standout among other Disney songwriters of the time was kind of the placement of where the songs were in the film as well, and he clearly had an influence on Disney films after that. But utilizing forms like the I want song and kind of linke it to characters kind of. Allows the songs to function differently. I think if a song lake part of your world, we're at the end of the film where there was more resolution or like where there is conflict, it wouldn't function in the same way and I think that's kind of one one way. Then the lyrics conserve that narrative purpose and then the lyrics I feel like turn out much better. I mean Howard Ashman influence interesting. He he also influence after he passed away in other Disney renaissance gums like for example, in Hercules the the most of the sun by the muses which are in the film Gospel Choir and that was actually per Howard Ashman recommendation before he passed away. We. Is Gone The arts and proclaim Azzam hero heroes like Hercules Hunter Humane punk Yalies. News story actually begins long before. Maybe yards. Back when the world was new. At Earth was down on its luck. And everywhere, gigantic routes call type breath. was, a mass. Was a mess wherever you stepped went hail. Block. I. Because he recommended that the director of the film when they were in New York, recommend the they go see I believe it was possible colonus and which was a musical or which is a play Broadway that featured a gospel choir. As kind of literal interpretation of the Greek chorus. And even then dislike, yeah pre Tarzan all the films use the same exact format whether. Yeah arguably some not as successful as others, but they kind of base the phone at the Little Mermaid said. Well, it's really like the Greek chorus and little shop of horrors. A Lotta people is the first time they ever became aware of them up. Off. Double Back. Early in high school like I was obsessed with little shop of horrors so much that I made a video game pays. which is like, I, did not know how to code for Shit but there was on the Commodore Sixty, four computer. There was a piece of software you could buy that allows you to do a very rudimentary a midi song coating. So the song in the background was did it did edited. They Way To describe it is it was a pacman game were Seymour is trying to collect. Stuff, and he's Audrey. Audrey one is just kind of floating around the screen of the dentists can kill them, and of course, the plant and the little plants can kill on the ghost and Pacman. Yeah it's Pretty I. Wish I had a copy or a screen shot of that because like I spent probably three or four months working on that video game. That's great and you know this is like for the vantage point of a teenager who's in the closet like we didn't have the Internet in terms of sexuality like for me it was like videotaping the solo flex commercials on late night television and then sorry staying up late equipped to be able to watch them when the rest of my family had gone to bed. This is solo flanks. Revolutionary Machine. You can use at home. It combines all. Coastal zones with. You know in in terms of like you know for me it's like I went to Grad school and wrote musicals because of Howard Ashman and a dedicated so much of my life and time to doing a collaborative musical theater work in Chicago. But unfortunately, like we didn't have what in New York City, you have that BMI musical theater workshop or you have the WPA theater, you have all kinds of institutions, venues, organizations, funding sources to support people in the arts to do this kind of collaborative stuff and you know the the. Howard Ashman of yesterday Begat the Lin Manuel Miranda and Robert Lopez of today. Alexander Hamilton. Manela's Alexander Hamilton. Million things I haven't done. Just. And yes. In terms of like what the future holds when we don't have those institutions and organizations, we rob ourselves from the music of the future from the let it go and maybe that's not. Know, some people find like let it goes really annoying. You know. Wasn't complete everywhere. But but it is something that ties us together as a culture. You know in terms of like what we're facing as a society right now, music is something that can bond us together. So we can overcome the tyranny that we're facing right now like in terms of fighting depression, you know when when we're dealing with an economic depression, we're also dealing with a psychological depression when we're dealing with people who are struggling with their physical health, their mental health is also tied to it and we know musical theater and music general is something that can really speak to our condition today, and that's why it's so important to keep those kind of institutions like the BMI musical theater workshop going into the future. I went to their website and their their. Their program has been postponed for a year. So everybody who has Because of covid yeah. Oh, that's so unfortunate. Are you have you talked to people who have actually taken the workshop? It's really an amazing thing. No, I haven't I was I was going to apply, but then I moved to Germany. So you can do it. You're young and still got your wits about. Your into, I would advise everybody to to apply for it. kind of speed dating. So you either can take the track of a composer lyricist or a librettist, a person who writes the non spoken in the non sung parts of a musical and the librettist part is a little bit different. It's more of a of a workshop where people sit around a boardroom and talk to each other about their work. But the in terms of the the pairing of. Lyricist with songwriter it's kind of like speed dating where every week or so you switch you, you find a new partner. A new dance partner right and you see how you react to each other and what kind of work together. So there's a lot of demand for like cranking out and churning out material. And from everybody that I've talked to has taken it. They say it's transformed their lives. It's one of those things where it's completely free. And I'm doing a free plug because I know so many people who have benefited and we as a society have benefited from the BMI Leeman Angle Musical Theater workshop that I to really if you thought about this writing musicals your dream, go check it out. It's really an amazing thing. I, wish that I actually like I have a lament that I wish that I would've applied for that back in the day when I had the opportunity to do so but you know I chose a different path unfortunately. But In terms of like. Reflect on the life of Howard Ashman. When you when you realize that he's gone and that you know we're sort of the new Howard Ashman today where the storytellers in the songwriters what does that leave you with jake in terms of like a sense of legacy. Leaves me with a sense of hope I think I've done a few videos that kind of reference, the Queer specifically impact of Howard Ashton's work, and in all of them, I think my kind of like we're talking about this abstract feeling of longing or desire that kind of unifies a lot of lgbtq individuals I think that persists and that's kind of what is special about his work because even though he his life was short, unfortunately the the inspiration that comes from his work allows kind of tools for many people than on to them to write their own works and kind of express themselves in different ways. Yeah. It's. If you get a chance to watch little shop of horrors. It's it's probably one of Howard Ashman greatest works that people might forgotton about the director's cut. There's two versions the original version and Broadway in the off Broadway production the plants win. It's Commentary. On capitalism it's you know the plant represents unfettered capitalism and speaking to people's desire for greed see Moore's character feels that he is not worthy of love unless he buys into the tenements of capitalism, which is basically sacrificing human life in order to get love. Lovely. Dream. If life were tawdry and impoverished as. I. She might not love me. What I love so much about those lyrics just for the show in general but also specifically like songs lake somewhere that's green. There is this kind of element of camp and sarcasm to the lyrics, but somehow a song that functions as the character singing about something. So mundane becomes emotional. I think that also contributes to just the success of that show the widespread appeal it had through the way it was really well written. Well, it's a love letter to Baltimore. It's A. The campus static, the the embracing of tract homes and Dinners and You know. Howdy. doody on the television set. This kind of sixties, Nostalgia. That we see. So beautifully represented in both John Waters Films, and also these moments and little shop of horrors like a lot of people know of peaches Christ they know of John Waters but they don't think of Howard Ashman is one of the. Baltimore and yeah. But he's extremely influence and you know and that camp aesthetic speaks to us. You Know Audrey too, which is a male sounding monster has a woman's name and in the film they the musical they refer to Audrey to as a she. Can Seem Tonight Dri. ooh, girl are. We still going out Anywhere Crow born. You've staying right here and take care of that seat plant i. told you. It's been giving me trouble. Girl. Strictly between US majors the Audrey one. There's a debate online whether Audrey, to is a trans character or is it a miss gender or what's a plant lawmakers? It's a mean green mother from out of. Might not even be a plan. Really it just looks like a plan well, and there's a song that did make it into the film and I'm not sure if this is part of the musical where we're audrey to compares herself to King Kong and Godzilla. Ain't got nothing on me. You know. Godzilla be green, but I'm the one who's watched the alternative ending they have it on Youtube but man, it's just you know and I've seen the the live the live show and it's it's weird to see them die in the end and kind of get absorbed by the plant. Kinda works to the stage production. But when you translate to that to the screen, it's just it's horrify. You're like you want you want Audrey one and see more to live a happy life and to get away with it. Know you want them to succeed but it's hard because you know the the musical is commentary capitalism, right? And going to the movies and buy a movie ticket and buy some Popcorn and soda and sitting there is consuming and buying something, and at the end of the film telling you, you know you're a bad person for helping the plants. Helping capitalism destroy the world, and you're like I may agree with a message but I want I still would like to see Seymour triumph in the end that love and these two lost souls are able to overcome this menace of capitalism for a mean green mother from outer space who is a threat to the very existence of humanity jake. What do you think about like the ending of little shop of horrors the film as opposed to the musical I? Think it's definitely obviously less transgressive and I think that was probably a deliberate choice. I. Went to see the off Broadway production the new one from last year and they have the original ending it definitely leaves you kind of. More. Of. Like a sucker punch to the gut because I think it kind of transgresses every traditional narrative tropes that we're taught to understand like in terms of tension and release. Yeah. I I kind of liked the desolate ending more was interesting that you know even though a the world is in ruins, the Greek chorus is still able to look flawless. And transcend everything you know lake and that's a that's another interesting choice that frank ause that was his. directorial film debut actually, it was a first project he had done without Jim Henson involved. Even. Though Henson workshop made the puppets for the film Jim Hansen was not involved in any of it. It was actually his his son Brian, Henson, who helped develop and create the Audrey to that. We see in the film. This are all practical affects. There's NO CGI in this movie and the way they accomplish this is they they filmed it at regular speed and they speed it up and so Rick Moranis who's playing Seymour is moving slowly like molasses almost like a a Bhutto. Dancer. Through the air like if you slow it down. Or you put it into regular speed. You can see that he's kind of like moving slowly and lip synching slowly, but it is really a masterpiece in in Rick moranis acting and singing skills, and you know you go on Youtube and you look at other productions subsequently of little shop of horrors and they just don't hold the magic and the power of like Levi. Stubbs is performance as audrey to or even Rick Moranis performance you know and it's also great that and this is another unusual thing that they did which usually when musicals are adapted for films, they don't bring in the cast and Audrey. Green who does audrey she's his still doing it. She's still doing it to this day. Labor two years later she's still singing somewhere. That's green and she's still can belted out. Yeah. She sounds she sounds fantastic and she doesn't look much different now just crazy. Surgery. Put pull that face back girl you like you like you know Andrzej new again. At to me, it's like I don't know I do feel like so many people with Audrey. Two's character. There's a I. would say describe Levi stubbs voice as being able very. Dynamic and very playful and people like don't grasp that whoever takes on the role they tend to Way Down it was very little. Richard. Isn't it? Yes. Yeah. It's very much. Nonconformity. And And part of that is like a even they redid little shop of horrors with. A believe who is it the from a from pose? Latina twin Jay Rodriguez and Jay Rodriguez. Yeah. It's really good and George George Salazar. Did it out and I think San Diego or something. It was on they did a performance. Late. Show with James. Condron can watch on Youtube. Up Curious to see like if by putting these two characters as Latino people that then the flower, the plant takes on a different threat. The psychot- been. Its sole. Lead. Would switch under. Here's a trans woman singing about the girl that's inside the girl that's inside you. And Jay Rodriguez is a trans woman and I think that also goes to show the flexibility but also the underlying sorta weirdness of Howard actions. Work. It just something that you like. You take for granted because it's just a song you've listened to a million times that you forget the depth and the meaning when you I listened to it with a fresh that ears. Yeah I think that flexibility is really interesting. Could I could I am connected to two more interesting things. I'm not about little shop at about. Little Mermaid. That I think, are relevant to this discussion One thing was about that sort of flexibility. I'm not sure if you're familiar with. The a kind of poetic justice that occurred in the international dubbing of Little Mermaid where. There was a drag queen in the Latin American Spanish version, WHO VOICED URSULA? And she was billed under her drag name I'm sitting Oviedo and V though yet, which means Serena forgot. Oh. On the means forget about it. I. I highly recommend looking up. It's very, it's very sinister and very like yet poetic justice to the fact that the character was influenced by divine and also I was learned to recently that I believe in the Arabic version Ursula also played by am Oh. Wow in the dubbing, which is which is so interesting though when you have I mean not many people know that and it's so funny how that in a company like Disney which really only in the past five years has been publicly open an APP TO LGBT key representation. That that kind of slid under the radar in a way. That's very interesting. You know it's the whole world of dubbing as a is an interesting world a lot of times. If you're an actor, any movie you make is going to be dubbed by that same exact actor or they just change things around I. Remember like my friends from Sweden early nineties we're telling me like every single movie that Goldie Hawn has ever done is titled the Girl Who and blank like the girl who did this girl? Who did that did this and it's like they're completely different characters, but it's always the girl who? Howard Ashman was very visionary was in bringing in making Sebastian's character Jamaican with a vocal by Samuel e right when Disney announced that there were remaking the Little Mermaid with live actors those a lot of controversy because they cast a bike actress in the role of Ariel they're all like Ariel should be white not black. But she's she's great though. It's just a very little time for that. It's it's moments like that that I remember how many Disney fans are so And Awful. You're listening to something I. Don't know in the documentary and Howard Ashman but there was something in his previous. Work that had a little bit of a Caribbean kind of feel to it. What was that something that they had something little shopper there was some something else I forget what it was. that. kind of has the same kind of feel. That's the song some fun now damn. He's having some fun now. Yes. Ma'am. He's having some fun how you know but that's being gay in New York. City you have access to Puerto Rican culture to Jamaican culture to some really great influences and people that undoubtedly shapes your work. And it's something that's really fantastic. You know I'm looking forward to seeing Halle Bailey in the live action whenever it comes out, it was supposed to come out this year but I, think it's going to be postponed Disney pluses. Major box office gamble is they're gonNA make Moulana available on Disney plus for basically thirty bucks thirty bucks to watch which is cheaper than going to the movies. If you've got five kids, you know like, Hey, kids learn about this cross drawn soon. Girl. Off The huns I wonder how that will do internationally as well. 'cause in Germany it doesn't cost thirty dollars to go to the movie theaters. Like it's Ten dollars, but it's time for one person you take your kids. Well. You can depends on which theater I I live near neighborhoods where like you can go to a movie theater for five dollars per person own. So I'm curious as to how that's going to fair. Internationally. But also it's it's Disney so. I'm sure it'd be. Living as an ex Patriot in Berlin or are you permanently? Yeah. My goal is to be permanently here. I've been here for years now. Yeah. So Imagine it must be. Quite extraordinary to be living there while this pandemic is unfolding in the United States and there's an irony there right because you're seeing the United States sort of fall into fascism any country that had fallen to fascism at World War Two. Still. Yes. I mean, yeah, it's it's it's very complicated, but it is. It is interesting to see as someone who has an American passport but plans stay in Berlin I'm kind of. In retrospect. Glad I left when I did. But also feel selfish about saying that ultimately. It's a very nuanced thing and it's I try and do all I can from a distance to help. Bruin. Seems. I've always I only was there once but it seems like just a fantastic place to live and work. There's gotta be lots of Americans that are living there. Yeah, I think also. There's also one of the reasons I was. So drawn to the city is just all I do I do work in musicology with this with this youtube channel also. Recently in German history and there's a huge lgbt culture and specifically for me what's interesting is. Trends culture. As a non binary person like there were, there were discussions about third genders. One hundred years ago in Berlin? which is just fascinating to me that kind of lineage I was just going to link it back to Howard Ashman because there's also from German musical speaking of like us coating other cultures into his work. There is kind of another queer context to the song porn fortunate souls. Just because Alan Menken and it's it it. It bears a very striking resemblance to the song pirate Jenny, from threepenny opera and that in in Berlin in the first half of the twentieth century. In the LGBT seeing there there was there was a link that can be argued between Clinton vile and how their work. Represented under an underground culture of the time, and there were a lot of links. Between sex work and prostitution in Weimar Republic, Germany and LGBTQ culture like a lot of. A lot of districts that were well known for heterosexual sex work in prostitution were also frequented by by gay male prostitutes, and there is even like a connection between women, prostitutes, protecting the the men prostitutes in kind of helping them if they were ever caught and so there, and so to have a song son by sex worker, our prostitute within threepenny opera the characters is sometime, Sunday a prostitute to have that also just conveniently coated also into his number is very interesting in Alan Menken said that he was listening to threepenny opera when they were making the music that Little Mermaid people might recognize this song mack the knife is from threepenny opera, right? Per. Did. Just. Acknowledge. He. and He. One. Original German. Sounds different than fat Frank Sinatra or. Ella Fitzgerald version, but it's there. But I guess that's that's also a musical explanation for why. Souls also lends itself so well to camp and also dragged in particular because it also has the musical genre that it takes from also history in that. Well, you know. My Mom's high school boyfriend's was terrence McNally. Wow. and He. Is No longer with us he's one of the first people who passed away from covid in in the spring of twenty twenty. One thing that I interestingly had a conversation with terrance about was why he loved going to the opera. Theater so much and part of it, and he says that back in the day going to the theater New York City as a gay man was fabulous because intermission Yukon to flirt with other game at. So the whole idea of being a friend of thirty stands from the fact that gays love to go to theater and see cabaret and any kind of show that that went on for a long time and had a lot of breaks was very favorable because they could get cocktails. They could socialize things spent time in the bathroom they can spend time in the bathroom washing their. And then go see a little theatre. It's very different from even the gay bath house seen a scene in the film the Ritz that was based on Terence's play very much goingto gay bath house was not just for sex that can the day it was a place for people to gather and watch performance Rita. Moreno says that being in terrence McNally's is plays we really helped revitalize her career after her success early, six guys with west side story. For people who are fans of the show may not know about this, but the character in love Valor Compassion Ramon four knows the Great Puerto Rican Drag Queen Performance Artists extraordinaire is based on me I did my mother Oh organiz the salon for Terrence McNally. And me and my friends did a basically. A campy Weirdo performance art drag show in her living room in Texas, and that stuck with him and he incorporated one of the characters into love Valor Compassion so oh, that's wonderful. So We're all connected basically is why I'm saying like everybody is just one or two degrees of separation from Howard. Ashman you may not even know Howard Ashman but you do now you certainly saw his music and he lives as in Lion. King says he lives in you to paraphrase a, and now when you go to Disneyworld House music is everywhere they're singing be our guest be our guest it's fully ingrained and I thank. Fully ingrained into Disney and also just entertainment in general One of my personal favorite Howard Ashman songs it was mentioned briefly in the documentaries well. Sheridan Square the one that he wrote with Alan. Menken, that was essentially just a commentary on his personal experience during aids it was one of the first songs about AIDS and the loss of things. Community too, soon. When somebody's getting fame's Nobody's get new. And you can send my regrets to the Pari. pitchers stone did. shooed in Janis. Martin. Danish. Islam. Of the boys. The boys heave. Run the good ship. GRONER sing. Stand. To lose. It's Sheridan's. There's a line in it where he says some of the boys panicked but none of the boys leave town they say were on the good ship titanic we're GONNA. Sing till the boat goes down I. think that the that lyric alone kind of paints a picture of the kind of resilience that he portrayed throughout a lot of his work from Little Shop Little Mermaid beating in the beast even smile this. kind of drive to keep going that I think also resonates well a lot with queer individuals and that's kind of what I was talking about earlier with just optimism about that queer legacy because if anything it just reminds us of the resilience of of lgbt people that have always been here and aren't going anywhere honey work like gum on your shoe, you're going to have to work hard to get off of. Yeah. Jake. It's a delight talking to you I really love your videos where you put so much of your heart and soul and energy into celebrating the Disney's music can queer legacy was the last time you went to Disneyworld or Disneyland I went on my honeymoon in January Walt Disneyworld, which is Great. Oh, just recently then yeah. Right before the pandemic hit. Yes. Let or or when it was already there we don't know. 'cause I've read stories of people like saying they got really sick with cove like symptoms in January at Disney feels. So but yeah, I yeah I. was that your husband's first time to going to Disneyland now we I went in two thousand eighteen he wasn't he yeah like you said he's a scenic designer and he wasn't He wasn't very familiar to Disney and so I've been slowly introducing him. Not. So slowly it's a real pop culture explosion. If you're never been to Disneyland like you know I went to Disneyland in the eighties before the renaissance and then we had the when our first podcast hit big we became guests of the park after speaking to lgbt employees organization and to give us something behind the scenes tour of Disneyland in California and we got it like VIP. It was really something really I'll never forget and I was just giggling and laughing to myself so much because it was just a release, a ball of joy sure runamuck, and then you're just like surrounded by all this stuff and the Indiana Jones ride is really bizarre ride that combines every cliche from Indiana Jones movie. And it's all thrown at you darts and a rolling ball and snakes snakes. SPIDERS and all kinds of all giant balls. What? What's your favorite? What's your favorite ride and I think One of my favorite things is the Tiki bird room and I love your video. We're sort of like examine and analyze the history and the legacy of. Polynesian Culture EXOTICA and the Tiki bird room what what's your favorite? Disney. Ride that's a hard question. I think I would say honestly either spaceship Earth at Epcot or or the pilot's own tower of terror a Hollywood studios. The haunted hotel thing is that the one is they got rid of that. Yeah. They got rid of it at Disneyland, but they're still the original one at Disneyworld. I I mean I think the whole thing about Disney and that's kind of when when I I in shoes John my husband to Disney I was kind of like, okay. You're a man of the theater like this theater and I. I've always been kind of drawn to the sort of gazumped Christopher or like the it wasn't invented by Wagner, but I guess is most associated with him. Now the idea of one one piece of art encapsulating every form of art possible and. I think that's kind of what theme parks to at least on the Disney level where it's kind of complete immersion. And, I think the twilight zone does that incredibly well. Whether. It's the sound design, the scenic design or just like the immersing yourself in an experience. Yeah. Basically because the twilight zone ride is is a free falling elevator. It's a roller coaster that goes up and down and It builds up so much tension and suspense in waiting in line that by the time you sit in these chairs, you're not sure what's going to happen. Yeah. Yeah. I mean the ride itself is only like two minutes long but the entire experience like twenty minutes and you you start to feel your mortality. We actually wrote that ride with Devon Green of Betty bowers. Welcome to my home. Oh Wow. Is going to hurt her back. Back. Problems. No. I'll be all right but it's actually relatively a safe ride to I like to me. It's like it's not I feel like the rollercoaster does that take you upside down run more risk of damaging your back than any other ride? Part of the reason I avoid those. I don't know I just have so many happy memories at Disneyland, and you know it's it does make me sad that the pandemic right now is putting all that stuff on pause even though there was this creepy video of like we're open now. I. Yeah I have a lot of my heart goes out to the Disney employees, the cast members at. Disneyworld. I bet the ones that have to wear like the big costume heads are happier. In yeah mascots are doing well, you know they're like nothing's check them the ones who have to play like you know, bell or sleeping beauty or Cinderella all these little kids. Well. It's interesting because I think when we went there last time we were there in in Disneyland we saw cruella developed and clearly they were a drag queen and it's just like By precious children WHO WILL And that to me is success of this this Harvey Milk Way back in their Wanted to blast open, the door, the door, the closet door open, and through generations of people all over the world, telling their story, coming out to the friends and families, and having this very difficult conversation. It's how we changed the world and yeah, you know I think today it's important for you to be safe and for you to take care of your immediate needs don't come out of the closet fear that you're going to be thrown out of the house or put in danger. But if you have the ability to come out professionally to your co workers or to your friends and family do it, you're be a better person and you're definitely helping to make the world a better place jake. I think I, guess my nation with Disney on a whole from a queer perspective is kind of this idea that when you grow up I mean we as Lgbtq people were forced to grow up in in many societies and cultures cultures that might not be so accepting of lgbtq people and so you have a phenomenon where with Disney you put a child in front of a TV and kind of position them for force them to empathize with the with a narrative that doesn't really empathize with them. And I think that's kind of where the quickness comes in because then there's the subtext, but also you have people developing authentic genuine relationships to this media and I think that's kind of the place that we're in. Now where you have generations of lgbtq people who have formed incredibly personal and also incredibly queer associations with Disney media and I'm and I guess that's kind of the main driving thing behind a lot of my channels content is kind of analyzing that and where does that come from and how does that? How can we look at that to? Both analyze how we got here and what needs to change, but also acknowledging who we are as people and I think to bring it back to Howard Ashman I. think that's that has work in that was kind of a subtle wink I? Think to a lot of lgbtq people I would say that myself a kind of a subtle wink amidst all fat it's interesting how you talk about the generation -ality of all that kind of stuff 'cause you know certainly like if you saw Pinocchio Jiminy Cricket, there's a little bit of a gay element there as well, and that was that made the forties or fifties and then. It's not until we have. Frozen to where we're kind of like. She really is a lesbian. I did a video about I did a video about Ferdinand. The Bull, which nineteen thirty, eight short. By, Disney that that it's so funny because the the the story is basically about pacifism and kind of. Main character who is Small flowers but Disney released a song alongside the film kind of Pokes Fun at the character in essentially calls him like. Like feminine or kind of flake assist in a way. Wake up big change to bird. Bird. and. So. Like. Went up or Mr Mike. Yeah I mean, it's there's kind of this like degrading nature to the song where they make explicit references that kind of code this gender into the character, which also makes it very clear in a way although they didn't they intended it to be an insult So this stuff at Disney goes back. Yeah. There was also like the Reluctant Dragon, another character that has a similar function in the Disney catalog. So it's interesting Just remade for the Bowl I. Think John Wants the Voice of the ball. It's kind of interesting to see you know because he's. You know he's the kind of guy though he's like a big handsome jock that everybody loves but he would have no problem. I don't think playing or being gay. That's on the else Bhairon gotTA. Kites. Not. Johnson. Yeah. Do, you think Disney knew what they were getting into. Part of it is you know we also looking at Disney's legacy. Disney was a man who not who's definitely had a past of anti-semitism and in terms of you know he was certainly like working to hunt down Communists Hollywood. There's also this like urban legend that Disney's head is frozen. In a jar waiting to be re animated like a monster you know. And I don't believe that's true. But but the fact that that legend persists it sort of speaks to what the animators. In before the renaissance they. Describe. IT AS MOUSE SWITZ-. That, it was a very difficult, very oppressive environment to work for, and it's actually you know the influence of Pixar and Disney Renaissance that transformed that company into something a little bit. More. Compassionate, and kinder and diverse than what it was in the seventies and eighties. Yes I mean I. Think I think Walt Disney I don't I don't think I would work in a binary of a good or bad person but he was very arrogant and I think That definitely reflected in the way he treated others in the way that I'm i. mean that was also kind of how he was able to do the work that he did but it also led to a lot of really bad decisions. And it's interesting to see Disney. kind of Lake I. mean they've they've been in terms of workplace productions. They've been pretty good for the past twenty twenty to thirty years. But as a company publicly, they've still kind of held onto this conservative image and it's been interesting to see them kind of adapt now, and they had last year at Disneyland Paris they had the first ever official. Pride celebration. At any Disney park, there had been unofficial gay days for for a long time but. If you buy the mouse years that rainbow flag on it, you have to get it from behind the counter. I don't think that's the case anymore when I made when I made that Howard. ashman video. I was clearly upset about that because I think it was the first year they introduce loew's and it was like I was watching logger and he was like, Oh, I had to ask them and it's just like it's Disney. I mean during during the Gay Pride as last year. At Disneyland. They introduced a bunch of food that was clearly gay like it was all all this rainbow food that suddenly appeared the parks for a four day period. That was when Gates were happy name. Just call it like rainbow cheesecake or something, and it's just so it's. cheesecake. pinged cake. Becomes becomes very very turned fannies. But it is you know that's that's part of our Ashman spoke to in in little shop cars that Audrey to is still in your garden. To consume everything and have to be very careful of how don't feed the plants you know in terms of capitalism it you have to be very careful on how you. Turn a struggling a disenfranchise mu. Movement into another product for Your Corporation to package and sell and. It's I every business that I speak to about this, it's like you have to have a lot of conversation with your customers on your employees about how you approach black lives matter of how you deal with LGBT Q. Equality and diversity and not just be pandering or commodifying these political movements but actually making long lasting changes where everybody is well, truly welcome. At your theme. Parks businesses. Yes I hope. I hope I hope that. I hope that Disney is. I hope they're progressing towards a more openly. Open stance on where they stand because I think they're ultimately their they're conservative corporation that has a vested interest in making everyone happy and obviously with with these types of social issues. That's not enough. And so I think the I think them hosting the first pride parade last year at Disneyland Paris was great. But that's also Paris like it's not the US. And so I hope that they I. I would hope that they start to bring you those. Approaches and then I'd say don't realize that there's not a bunch of. Anti, Gay People in Europe or antiabortion people or or pro-christian people that are just trying to control everything well, anti vaccines the Anti, Max Irs Mask Kerr's and we had. there. A very big anti mask demo days ago in Berlin. So Choose that's. Chilling. Yeah, it was. It was Yeah it was really intriguing. Germany don't be so Nazi this time around a America's got. Pretty well, the beginning of the pandemic and then. Things. Have Changed. Yes. Right. They're doing. They're doing from what? I understand that the situation they're still doing relatively well, I, mean, bruins been pretty safe But. I think I. Think a lot of the anti mask things based on what I've read in like what I seem to now It's mainly far right like Neo Nazi groups. That are kind of stoking these flames I believe it is called a high a hygiene protest, but it doesn't take much looking into their platform, what they're talking about to see what the actual ideas promoting so. Wash nasty either people I would imagine Germany that are most at risk for forgetting covert people living in close proximity, intergenerational housing immigrants much like here the United States and you know unfortunately, those are often the target of the alternative right people They really are very anti immigrant and anti poor. So they will you know. They really in some ways, they want these people to die. Though. Fortunate. So Sad that they didn't give Jaffar more lines in Aladdin didn't get a song did it he didn't get. He had a song. They got they got it out. You know but he kinda gets. Intentional, right. They didn't want the villain to have his own theme so he has to Sing Aladdin. Prince Ali happens to be merely A. And It's the kind of ROB's Jaffar of being sympathetic character. Yeah I mean it's in. That's definitely early Disney villains. Lake. Early, Disney villains played into this This European archetype. which unfortunately also has roots in anti-semitism that like the noble heroes are the ones who sing and the villains don't sang. Even, the idea of villain song was was Disney. Dabbled. In it like in Pinocchio there is There's the villain song. But, it's not as much of a poor unfortunate souls things. So yes, and that's also another thing that Howard Ashman brought to the table was so brilliant and I think you know the song, any songs involving Gusts Don's character. Is stands apart everything else. Just, no for muscle chasers aside GUSTON's character is imbued with certainly You know. In the animated film, he's indirectly in love with him in the live action. It's very clear that he is gay and and you know spoiler alert turns the tables and switches to the good side because you can't have a gay character now in a Disney movie that doesn't become good at the end. When he discovers true love he was chasing the bad love with dawning phones off a good man and now he's like helping the oppressed. People fight the townspeople and and how does the what does the beauty and the beast eventually end? They become the beast becomes a human and then about a decade later, the townspeople rise in revolt and behead bell and the king and all the people. Another about beauty and the beast and Howard Ashman and quizzes that there was a cut song from the film that's in the director's cut that wasn't mentioned the documentary but I think it functions similarly to like humiliate the boy the cut sun from Aladdin. Uncle Humid again where all of the the household objects. fantasize about about when they are able to become human again, and there is definitely like a sucker punch subtext of a man passing away from AIDS related complications writing that. and. Certainly, with Howard Disney forever will be. indebted to the the sacrifice that. If you're dying from HIV and AIDS a lot of people just like I'm GonNa. Go Move to Palm Springs or Florida and. Drink drinks and enjoy the last few years of my life credit card bills and loans that will never have to pay back. There are so many people who did that and Howard Ashman reacted by like I love musical theater I. Love this work I have an in a lifetime opportunity to change the world. And he moved to California briefly and then so you know wrote these amazing songs and as he was sitting at, Disneyland, watched the parade and here comes. Of Sebastian and bell singing under the sea. and. He just turned into tears because he realized. What he had done and how he had how his work changed the world and I hope that everybody somehow. is able to realize some day that they're able their work their lives have have meaning and and have changed the world for better or for other people as well. And Jake. I I think you're videos do really great job at speaking to a lot of these complicated fascinating topics. For people who want to follow you on on. Youtube, what's what's the name of the channel is it is it? What is it a? Stream sound. Yeah. So they've just youtubecom stream sounds. If you if you let me. Guess YouTube dot com slash. Video and you find it. Yeah. Linked almost video to in the show notes for this can follow that as well. You have been going through your channel looking at Disney stuff you have really good stuff. Thank you so much Jason talking to us I don't know what time it is there and Berlin. About nine thirty. Other. Donald KEBAB standstill up there. What the donor Kebab stands when I oh, Love Berlin in one, thousand, nine, hundred, eighty, seven in the summer and it was Everywhere there were donor Kebab stands and that's what we lived on basically. Where were you? Berlin? I was staying in the attic of the Cooler Theater, which I don't believe exists anymore. But we were doing we were doing a a musical called food. which was a update of Hansel and Gretel where the witch is Martha Stewart character who runs a organic whole foods supermarket and Hansel and Gretel, our employees, and at the very end the musical there's a splashing scene where they chop her up into little bits. But I, they cover up mayonnaise ketchup mustard chocolate syrup whipped green potato chips, and a cherry on top. And then they chop parts and grinder and seller seller body as organic meat. My left Germans were like boy America is so crazy. That's basically like that was one of the last musicals I wrote which you have October fest coming up soon, right? Yeah September. Yeah. Lived in southern Germany and Garmisch Partenkirchen. Back, in the nineties for a year and a half, it was really. Fun and beautiful but I drank way too much. So I had to leave. The country. Cow. I worked in a resort that was run by the Department of Defense for. Gi's and. It was just I worked with about one hundred, twenty Americans between the age of eighteen and thirty and every night. It was a different par and it was just like Oh my God delivers cannot survive here. I missed the Alps miss the mountains. Jake thank you so much for talking to US oh. Yeah. No. Thank you so much for having me. This is great. You have a wonderful day and thank you for being our guest. By. Jake. Jake belly simone lives in Berlin Germany you can follow their youtube accounted dream song video stream sounds sounds video. Yeah. Let's be? podcast to that, my niece loved the those musical so much that we were sitting around on dinner table I would take the salt and pepper Shaker and be like, Hey Victoria. They've come to live and I would take the salt and pepper shakers dance like their characters and beauty and the beast. And she'd be like you're making fun of me. She really liked the Little Mermaid though did she? Well, she liked. Her favorite Disney Princess Jasmine off because she looks like her and so she she the the beauty and the beast spoke to the relationship of her parents. Fought a lot. Her boyfriend did look like, Aladdin. They boyfriend looks like Aladdin, you know. So they were there have a real life Princess Jasmine and Aladdin and family. Can Show? Yeah she even had a tiger just like she very much. Sympathizes with those characters and the those musicals were really just a Howard. ashman ordinary radical. Folks I can't recommend highly enough to watch Disney plus to watch Howard when I first came across I thought Oh documentary and Howard the duck cloth. This Howard Ashman faster I think you're gonNA like this and you're like, Oh, I was like we have to musical podcast about this. Yeah. Because it's just such such brought so much joy to our life and I'm in little shop of horrors is one of my all time favorite musicals like I said I saw three times in the movie theater, and now we just watched it the other day probably fifteen to twenty times at least me seem more like even even that song like you know it's like he's begging into suck is dead. Feed me all your com must be fresh. There's so many double entendre. No one Fox like Gustov no-one sucks like Guston, once Dick is incredibly thick as US John. You know he had a whole list of dirty lyrics. And the funny thing about it is like you know the the lyrics do easily sound like knack is fiqh. Dick is thick like he. He's a lyricist. Claver with words and you would find words where he could sneak in. You know things that speak to the lgbtq people that were watching. Static. Yeah and to me it's like that's what's so great about you know the work of Sesame Street is that it's not just speaking to children's needs. It's speaking to the adults that are there and everybody enjoys it and you know innocence is preserved but also the needs of adults. Innocence is preserved. Down once again, neck incredibly thick as Gaston. I would remind folks, we can do this podcast without your support. If you're not a plus member yet sign up today at least two fun dot com slash plus because you're a contribution to the show is what makes this show happen access to thousands of legendary podcast go into the fund legends by going to face dot com slash plus and of course, we're on Patriot patriot, dot com slash feast fun. Check us out there instagram and Youtube and everywhere find things are found just search for a feast of fun. We'll be there. Thank you so much for listening. For. Knows I'm mark fillion by by. Unnerving for a servant WHO's not serving, he's not born without a soul to wet on. Those days when we? saw newly those days are. Long. Getting so much more than dusting king size chums will use skis. More Steve's we just lay around. On Fat and Lazy you in. Guest Sakes. missed. Being bored and thank. In Spanish. That spot meanwhile, the students wing. That small. Company. On guest. Orioles we. Just. On. His. mind. Soon. Since we. Will Candlelight. IS A. Woman.

Howard Ashman Disney Little Mermaid Aladdin Howard Youtube Disney Alan Menken United States Horrors Disney Ashman New York City Disney Audrey Disney Renaissance partner Hans Christian Andersen Howard Ashman David Geffen Oklahoma AIDS Baltimore jake
Beauty and the Beast and it's original impact

Everything You Never Needed to Know About Movies, Music & Theater

1:41:20 hr | Last month

Beauty and the Beast and it's original impact

"If you haven't heard about anchor it's the easiest way to make a podcast. Let me explain it's free. There's creation tools to allow you to create and edit your podcast right from your phone or your computer and Kolb distribute your podcast for you. So it can be heard on Spotify Apple podcast and many more you can make money from your podcast with no minimum listenership and everything. You need to make a podcast in one place. So download the free anchor app or go to Anchor FM to get started. And welcome back to the podcast everything. You never need to know about movies music and theater. I am your host Matthew Garland who once again and once again wasn't enough of the last couple episodes. I have been joined by special guest stars, but I am once again privileged to have my friend my colleagues and I'm proud to say now my my co-actor in the the show that we just announced Amelia Smith, I think so much for having me back. I love having you you you on so Amelia is back there. We're going to get into the topic really quickly, but I have to point out that in the last episode of big announcement was made which does involve a million in the sense that the movie critics which is the project the big announcement that I've been waiting to say is officially happening and there's a dog Paid so on October, um, uh 16th, which is a week from tomorrow with a week from this will go live tomorrow on October 9th a week from them. The first episode will drop live and every episode subsequent from there. We'll drop on Fridays at noon. And so if people don't know what this is listen to the other side the very quickly it's a podcast web series that it tells the story of two movie critics on television and the behind-the-scenes Antics and Drake that happen with their crew and I'm very pleased and honored to the fact that my guest today Amelia is on show and plays a really wonderful character gen which offer anyone who listened to it. The last episode was Kind of very much written to take advantage of Amelia's great acting which there's much of it. So so she and not only do I get to begin show with her. I actually get to scenes with her this this rarely happens for some reason that Amelia night long. I know so we we haven't been able to do it either she is the director and I'm the actor or I'm the director and she's the actor or where I'm completely different scenes and never seen partner. So we have a couple of scenes together, but it's a lot of fun. So again, that's that goes live or Friday starting next week starting October 16th. And so drop on Google podcast Apple podcast on castbox Spotify everything, It's very exciting and that's something we've been working on for a long time. But with all that being said, we're here to talk about something very very very very very very exciting and off. Of a piece that is I will say means a lot to both Amelia and myself. Let's see. Let's see if I can do this. Little town. It's a quiet every day. Like I'm waking up to I was hoping you're going to jump in so we are talking about Beauty and the Beast right off the bat. It's one of my favorite movies of all time right after a Little Mermaid. It was the actually it was the third movie I ever saw ever when I was a kid. They re-released. No Kyo. That was a very first movie I ever saw I then saw a Little Mermaid. And then this was the third one and it had a huge impact on me on my life on my existence and I remember very very clearly and I I've loved it ever since and in fact, I watched I watched It's a couple of nights ago in preparation for this episode and it holds up. It is one of those rare movies that you see as a kid. And there's a lot of them cuz I made a pact has to talk about most of them. There's a lot of movies that you see as a kid that when you see it when you're older they don't hold up. I hate to say it but like the Mighty Ducks and took those kinds of movies. They don't hold out this movie holds up. It's Timeless. So to start off Familia. What what is your feelings about Beauty and the Beast the movie The animate the original animated? I'm obsessed. I my mom tells the story about like we were out shopping somewhere. So I was born in nineteen. Ninety three a couple of years after the movie came out but you know, it was still fairly new and people were showing it and places and so we were out shopping somewhere and in like a department store that had TVs and there was a TV that was playing Beauty and the Beast and like the opening scene with you know, the music would be like I still get chills every time I hear that music and my mom said that I just like stopped in front of the T and was just transfixed by this country. And so we stood there and watched a little bit of it and then like, you know, it was in a store so they just played a little bit and then it switched to something else and she was like come on we've got to finish our shopping but she was like, oh you're so transfixed. I was like, okay we need to rent this movie and I was like, maybe two or three at the time and like I I don't I tell the story because I don't remember this. I don't remember a time when viewed in the Beast wasn't part of my life. I just remember watching it like probably every week when I was growing up and you know, I knew all the songs. Heart and it's such a great movie. Like you said it it really holds up. It's a movie that works for kids and adults and not in the way that movies sometimes tried to buy like, you know, putting in raunchy humor or lots that are too complicated for kids like like we were talking about with Mary Poppins a while ago. It's like there's more layers to the stage story that you uncover like new levels of Awesomeness as you get older and like the animation in the original is just so gorgeous and songs are so good. I mean, it's it's Alan Menken and Howard Ashman at their best if it really is it really is so yeah. So the movie the amounts the movie came out September 1991, so I would have been I think 4 or I would have been before and now everyone knows the ages of both of us. You can do the math now, but I thought Was for and I I just loved this movie. This was such a wonderful wonderful movie and it was one of those movies that I don't know if it was different cuz we're about a generation different between you and I a million but I don't know if it was different when you were growing up that way off the princess movies quote unquote. They were you know hard box for girls. So if a guy liked it you got made fun of me that last name, is that all that kind of stuff. So I grew up in a time when that was very very That was for the way it was. I mean, I got my ripped because of being loving being a nerve loving musicals coming Disney stuff loves this kind of thing. So, I mean now the Nerds rule the world but at the time you could get your ass whooped for all this kind of stuff. So I Remember Loving Beauty and the Beast but being almost very quiet about it and being relieved that the next movie afterwards was Aladdin that I could be like Oh, I'm going to go there so my childhood was a lot of Aladdin. But during the Beast was very much underneath and very much. Like I loved I loved it. I loved it to the point where I couldn't even explain why I loved it now. I can't because I'm a little bit more articulate. But at the time I was just like I love this movie. I watched my parents bought me the VHS. I watched it. So I wore down the the the thing and all that and renting. I mean you have to remember this is a time where you could still rent things from Blockbuster Video, you can't do that anymore and especially if you know cuz in my hometown we have one of the first Blockbuster videos of all time. So my dad and I went there pretty much every weekend it was like, all right, Matt you get to pick up movie. I'll pick a movie and you can watch your movie. However much you watch whatever but but yeah, so this viewing the Beast This is a milestone in terms of the movie. So at the time and I'll talk more about the time frame of this hits. But this is the time frame that is been called. The Disney Renaissance style kind of with Oliver in company, excuse me, starting with Oliver & Company going then into Rescuers Down Under and really start or made. This was when Disney Animation was becoming a big thing at the time. It was kind of laughable. They weren't making money but a little mermaid came out and it was a big thing. Now the next thing just going to be you know, the next thing was going to be big now. What's interesting about it is at the time of this development. They were working with an animated called Richard Williams full movie, which I will talk about later called who framed Rodger rabbit and they asked him to direct you in the least. He didn't want to do it. So he hired they hired a guy called Richard dead. Program to direct Beauty and the Beast the reason why no one knows this and no one's ever heard of this man is because the version that he did they called sap thought it was coined as sappy Masterpiece Theater in a sense. It was non-musical. I don't really know the original Beauty and the Beast story. I've heard that it's about a girl who goes to dinner and it's with a beast who's been cursed and she just leaves and comes back. And is this weird kind of grim a story by Jean-Marie Le Prince de permanent. And so this guy did it as like I've seen the reels it's really boring. It's really terrible and really awful. So this guy created the reels the story arc and and they showed it to Jeffrey katzenberg who was in charge of the studio the time and said, this is terrible. This is awful we have start again. And he's immediately said put Howard Ashman Alan Menken on this now at the time Ashman and Meghan. I'm actually really wanted to do a lad index. He wrote like a 40-page treatment wrote the whole script wrote tons of songs all intricately woven as all of his stuff is but he's so I wanted to do a ladder and Jeffrey created his version of a lad and it just wasn't going well. So Jeffrey basically forced Howard Ashman to do Beauty and the Beast next which is one of those can kind of serendipity. Imagine if how it actually was not there to do this cuz this is so indelibly out of the action so long, you know, you're right the animation everything came together. The first thing I want to ask because we're going to probably talk a lot about how it actually an hour making tonight. Amelia what's your favorite song boy? They've all been part of my life for so long. It's really hard to pick off. I really love I mean if I had to pick a favorite from the animated version I love Bells repris of bell, you know where she's standing on the hilltop. She's like I want Adventure in the Great Wide somewhere. Like it's such a wonderful classic. I want song and just beautiful visuals and it was my first encounter really with it's not really a power back but like with a a powerful like classic musical theatre, I want song. That's the first one that comes to my mind because I was the first one that I think I ever really offered. and yes, just the The emotion in that song of you know, as even as a little girl, I really connected to that feeling of like I want to do something memorable and important with my life. I want to make a difference in the world. I want people to love me for who I am and not force me into this little box and you know, even as like a five-year-old there was something about that song that really spoke to me and still continues to I also love, you know, like the our guest and took the class Be Our Guest is really fun. It's a great list song Howard Ashman does list songs, very very well. And it's one of his best wage being the Beast Be Our Guest. My favorite song is a weird one. I love The Mob Song And it's maybe cuz there's so many random references in the song There's a reference to the Scottish play screw your courage to the sticking-place. Yeah. There's a reference to an old 30s nightclub song 50 Cent. You can't be wrong. There's like a Cole Porter reference. There's all these references in there and it's so again intricate of of what's going on. And of course, I love The themes are Beauty and the Beast which yeah, how could I forget about that? Yeah, so I was listening. I was listening to an interview that so I'm I'm going to do a plug. That's not my unplug. I don't get any money from this but in the newly-released Beauty and the Beast version the enemy of version release they had on the DVD long arm the excuse me digital Alan Menken sits down with for other artists to talk about beauty of the Beast and they're just going to like, I don't know if you've seen this, it's Stephen Schwartz. It's lin-manuel Miranda. It's and it's Bobby Lopez and Christine Lopez of Frozen a Fame. Gosh. I have not seen this. I need to look this up and watch it. It's amazing if I can what I'll do maybe is I'll send you that watch along thing on on the movies anything and if you can get the special features, it's in the special features, but he sits down and plays the songs and discusses the songs with these four amazing people and immediately off the cute lin-manuel starts geeking out and starts talking about how he talks about Belle and how you get her character is literally the cross the bridge where she sings Oh, isn't this amazing. It's my favorite part because you'll see tells everything we need to know about the character. It's so concise the songwriting in this and I'm back. How would actually be at his best which is surprising that he was kind of forced to do it. But yet he found something that he really wanted to say with with the same Musical and with the the show and Ellen making also reveal something else about the intro that email you you were saying that you must so much listen to that intro wage the den den den den den den at the very beginning then listen to Carnival of the animals. It's very very similar. And the reason is because they told Alan cuz in the initial reels they had Carnival Carnival of animals playing over the thing and so they said Thursday, right? Well, we're going to keep kind of out and making snow. I'm going to do my own version and he did and and the Carnival of the animals is very similar so much so that when I hear it, I'm like this beauty and the beast, but it's it's not It's incredible the animals but a long time ago, I'll have to go back and listen again. The very intro is very melodic and very much in that in that same realm of life. And of course we should talk about the brilliant brilliant brilliant actors that they got to be in this. First of all, you got Paige O'Hara playing the wonderful Bell character. She just Springs to life and there was rumors that they had originally thought to have Jodi Benson play Bell again who Fame from Little Mermaid, but it just didn't work but God has a much more mature and I think grown up sound to her voice than Jodi Benson. You have Robby Benson as the beasts Richard white is Gaston. Now faith is where the stars come in Jerry Orbach plays Lumiere now, if you don't know who Jerry Orbach is where the heck if you're been Law and Order Of Fame he's lived. Still in the original Law and Order he was on Broadway. He actually has the most Broadway credits of any actor. Unfortunately, he's passed on but at the time he's the one who has the most Broadway credits David Ogden Stiers Angela Lansbury. Mike dropped right there Angela Lansbury who is indelible as mrs. Potts. You can't listen to her and not be like that's mrs. Fox. That's who who it is. And the rest of the cast is just so amazing, but even just those Listening and also on the on the DVD. There's a they show the recording of Be Our Guest you have Jerry Orbach and Angela Lansbury. Now if you're a Broadway fan, this is like Monday to Mount Olympus Has coming down coming down and and being one amongst everyone and it's it's absolutely absolutely amazing off now, let me do you know the story about something there the song something there? No, I don't so there was a it was an awful song that was written for that that section and it's a song called human again that one I do know about so that was originally written for that that bit but it's just too long and there was a time lapse because in the peace Maurice leaves the cottage to go and find Bell and try to save her from the base wage. But he then gets lost in the woods eventually. So this whole human again was the passage of time of Belle and Beast getting to know each other falling in love the way the it was from the objects point of view of saying we're going to be human again, we're going to this is going to happen. It's so exciting and Maurice being lost and it just didn't work. Anyway, I think it was one of the last songs Howard Ashman ever wrote and it just didn't work. So they said to them we can't do this so they had to write something else. And so they wrote something there would be a shorter time span and and shorter song but it's got one of the best alternative stories as well when they're recording Paige O'Hara is singing new and a bit in a in a bit alarming and she was singing very straight and the Howard Ashman gave her one no juice. And she said tell page strives and so in the in the movie, it doesn't sound as straight as new and a bit alarming. It sounds New Jersey a bit alarming her visit. His reaction was that is Streisand's view of everything. Now, the one thing I met usually break down the story, but in the last couple of episodes, I've noticed that that takes a long time. So if you don't know Beauty and the Beast then that's on you. That's not an honest attempt to teach you what it is, but there was one thing I really wanted to talk to you about and get your point of view a million on Specifically in the original 1991 animated version there's a lot of talk and a lot of controversy but there's a lot of now looking at 5 in our point of view. Now. There's a lot of talk about about Stockholm syndrome in Belleville. Do you have a an opinion or a point of view on on on that page from from the 1991 movie? It's funny. I I've heard that. As I've gotten older I've heard people say that and I don't see that at all. Like I can kind of see where people are coming from and I agree that like maybe Belle and the Beast or not the healthiest model for a real life relationship, but like It's not a story about it's not about her falling in love with him. I feel like with I mean it is about her falling in love with him because he changes. I feel like you know, I don't have a very good understanding of Stockholm syndrome. I'm not a psychologist, but I feel like the whole point of the story is that love does have the power to change people and assign of truly loving someone is being willing to Listen to them and to prioritize their needs above your own and really show the kind of selflessness that you know, we see if she is showing really genuine love toward Belle. He's he gives her the library because he knows that she's interested in books and he just wants to make her happy and then he lets her leave to go help her father, even though he thinks that that means you've never going to see her again and he's going to be a beast forever and like I I think what we're really seeing is Spell is not the one who's changing like Bell starts to fall in love with the Beast because he changes because he is willing to change and off. Yeah, I I think there is still a lot of good in the movie. I think there's like yeah, if you're watching it with girls that's important to have conversations about you know, Having healthy relationships and not tolerating mean Behavior or abusive behavior and relationships, but I don't think that's what Beauty and the Beast is about. Yeah, and I know that that it's a it was a big controversy, especially when and we'll get to talk about the 2017 film that they were it was called a look at more often, but I feel like people who dismiss certain bits of beauty and beast as Belle has stepped Stockholm syndrome or that it's like illustrates an abusive relationship. I mean, I think right the they don't have the healthiest Beginnings. They don't even have the healthiest of friendships to begin but it's when they're both pushed each bring in the wolf seemed and then the fact that she doesn't leave him there to die and the fact that she thanks him for saving her life and he is receptive that I think that's when things start to break in that they both realize maybe you're not as bad as I thought you were going to be or or you know life isn't as bad as you thought. You can be Thursday. I know that's just been a lot of conversations and I just want to give you I wanted to get your Thoughts on that. I think it's a good conversation to have but I'm I'm like glad that people are looking at stories with a critical eye. I'm all for re-examining the sort of tropes that we accept especially ones that I loved fairy tales, but they often cast women in roles of where they have two women and fairy tales have to put up with a lot of crap. They really did wage and that was no exception. But I I think the power of Beauty and the Beast is that Belle is also the one to break the spell. She's not a helpless victim even though she she chooses be the Beast prisoner to I mean East Bell is not the one the Beast just holding captive. It's her father and she says, you know take me instead. Yep. So from the beginning she has agency she has a choice she is not a helpless victim and it's her. Love and also her refusal to accept his that transforms the Beast and and inspires him to want to change and want to to be better. I mean, for Bell starts falling in love with him. Like she's she stands up to him. She's like you can't just do that. You're being rude. That's not how people behave to each other. So yeah, she's she's not a victim and I think it is important to look critically at stories like that. But I think we also shouldn't throw them away. Yeah. No, and I totally agree. Yeah, so so this is probably also a silly question to for you a million, but what's your favorite scene in doing the Beast? Or if you or if you could choose maybe a top and you know, top-three or top-five scenes in the whole movie. I love the ballroom scene. I mean that's just the animation is beautiful Angela Lansbury singing. It's wonderful and it's still lovely and when I was a kid, I always loved the painting on the ceiling the mural with the the chair of I it took me a while to notice like several viewings to notice that they were actually moving and I'm like pointing and watching fell in the Beats dance, but I remember like as a kid, you know how the Disney Stores used to have those murals on the earliest the one at the mall near my house used to have it and I used to always begging my mom to go in the Disney Store and I would like to stand in the mural twirled around and pretend I was fell so, I love God, I really do. Yeah, I love So much. So actually that I'll keep this quick my husband and I did a musical theater medley for our first dance at our wedding and I'm like insisted that it start with Beauty and the Beast because I love you so much and I wanted to relive it. But yeah other seen some I actually really like something I forgot. I can't believe I forgot about that song Especially since I was just listening to it right before we started recording this but I love you know, that that seemed the library is phenomenal and that is where we really start to see The Human Side of the Beast and see Belle and the Beast charging each other as equals and respect one another as people and as friends, I mean they have that whole fun snowball fight and like they really do become friends there and I loves mom. The fun and sweet and Goofy ways that their relationship blossoms in that song. Yeah. Yeah. It's it's those are the fun scenes and then even the comical scenes with like guests, Foo and guess I I I I have to say I do love his character because he's just so buffoonish and so often like he takes himself. So seriously that it's instantly funny and he's not an outright like yes, he's the villain but he doesn't come out right and say I have dastardly fiends villainy upon me. He just wants to mariebelle and he's willing to go at any length and normally and someone posted this wasn't an original idea by maybe someone said that normally guests on would be the the hero that you would be wanting failed to fall in love with and if you know in the classic sense of the The story and then you know and then you've got the food the best best friend character who's just just so funny in all kinds of stuff and off the guest on scene just the lyrics of guests on you know, I eat four dozen eggs to get large and all all of these covered with hair and I use antlers and all my God creating this is so absurd but it's so just silly and and and and funny and again Howard Ashman does does his his job properly. He does he knows his trade and he doesn't well. Yeah, and of course you can't not think about the classic. Ballroom scene and the because I'm also a filmmaker that the shot of the camera the camera it's animation Vision going down the chandelier catching them as they're just sliding around it brings a tear to my eye everytime. I see it and just so wonderful. So the other thing we should also talk about with the original Broadway the movie original moving. So Howard Ashman is The Lyricist the producer and basically the drama charge of the entire movie. He he figured out the story. He pushed everything forward brilliant. Brilliant Burning Man. At the time they were making viewing the Beast he was suffering with AIDS and during part of it. He was so afraid that he was going to be fired because again, it's because this was a time everyone has to remember this is this is early 90s. Well the eighties into the nineties and people didn't understand. It's like they do now off, you know at the time there was a lot of there's a stigma unfortunately on the gay community that if you had AIDS you were bad person and you were being punished for it and there was a lot of protesting and back and forth between everything not realizing what this was and you know, you know, you want to know more and watch documentaries or read anything lyrics wage. It's it's crazy the kind of thing that they had that unfortunately that Community had to go through just to get recognized as a that they are people they deserve to live and Thursday. Deserve research so that they can live but so many people unfortunately died from AIDS and unfortunately Howard Ashman ended up being one of them now during the production. He fortunately kept it a secret. The only people who knew were his family and his partner Alan Menken didn't even know that he was suffering from AIDS and so just about to start like recording or start to really develop it how it actually went to Alan Menken. It was right after they won the Oscar from it was actually the Tuesday after they won the Oscar for Little Mermaid and told Alan Megan. And of course that was not something I would make him want to hear because this is his his writing partner this his best friend. This is someone that he's dead is known since eighty seventy nine I think so they've been together for a long long time and then Howard Ashman had to tell Disney. And Disney, he was so afraid because Disney was family. It was animation. He loved working for them. He loved the job and he was so afraid they were just going to fire him and I'm Jeffrey katzenberg who was running the story of the time who is known for being I was going to pick my words, but he was known for being a petty ASL and off he went to Jeffrey thinking Jeffries going to blow his top. He's going to say all the stuff and how and after he left and went back to his office. His secretary asked so high to go with Jeffrey. How it said Jeffrey became a nice Jewish mother. He wanted to know how my mom is handling how my sister's family. And so it actually turned out to be the greatest thing because Disney accommodated Howard Ashman to an absurd degree, they moved production to New York closer to where Howard Ashman lived with his partner Bob. And they said whatever you need to do. We will do it for you. They still weren't telling people. So at the time they were just telling people that Howard Ashman was a diva and all this. He has the Oscar so we have to talk to him, but then once people started finding out and knowing all they wanted to do was take care of them. So I was watching being the Beast now being older and understanding what how it has been went through and looking at it in that perspective. And that's so sad. It's very subtle. It's not like outward like, you know, cuz there are people who were thinking because Howard Ashman died. Oh beauty Beast is a metaphor for AIDS. Well, it's not I don't believe it is but there's so much about a second chance and wanting to have a more life and there's so much in there that I think Howard put in there. I mean to the point where Amelia I don't know if you know this or not, but Howard Ashman did not live to see a finished product of Beauty and the Beast He ended up in the hospital right around when they finished they were finishing the editing. They showed it to the New York critics Circle and they loved it and he got a standing ovation and it was a work print not all the animation and the coloring was done and they went to his hospital room and he was wearing a Beauty and the Beast t-shirt underneath. He was like eighty pounds and he was wearing a t-shirt and the producer Don Hahn went up to him before they left he wants and we love you Howard. Please stay with us. We love you. And God said between the Beast is going to be a huge success who would have thought and at this time how it actually could barely talk. You know, he was having neuropathies. He couldn't see who lost his vision. He couldn't walk you can do anything. And in the frailest voice, I'm going to try say without crying after Don Hahn said who would have believed being the Beast would be this successful how it actually said to him. I would home. and A night or two later. He died and it was so it's so sad that Howard actually didn't get to see so there's so to me now looking at it here. I don't think it's a metaphor for AIDS or or the subject that unfortunately those you know, they, you know, people had to go through but there's definitely a lot of personal sadness and a lot of personal goodbyes and such from Howard. May I know you probably have seen it. I don't think you've seen it in. I don't know if you knew all that so I didn't know any of that and that's Absolutely heartbreaking. I mean it's wonderful. What Disney did to make sure he was able to do this movie but that's so heartbreaking that he gave so much of himself to this absolute Masterpiece and never got to see it. I mean, that's But I don't know. I don't know if if when you've now thinking back on the movie, I don't know how recently you've seen it, but I don't know if you can yourself see it, you know, you know speaking cuz I I talk this way with Jackie cuz you know, we're all writers as an artist you end up putting a lot of yourself into the project you're doing whether you're an actor or director and when you're a writer, it's more obvious because you're writing the words you're writing. The things people are going to say so Thinking about it or if you've seen it recently. Do you see a lot of what I'm saying? In terms of what how how what Howard Ashman put into this piece? I mean, we know he worked very hard on it but it's a matter of fact. Can you see a lot of his almost saying goodbye in in this in the piece? Absolutely. I mean, there's a huge part of our advisor. I hadn't really thought of it before but saying, goodbye is a big part of the story like first fell has to say goodbye to her father and then her father has the Beast says goodbye to her and then she she says goodbye to her father again kind of when she decides to go back and do the Beast and like I can definitely see Echoes of you know. Especially when the Beast says goodbye to Belle when he gives her the mirror and his like you're free to go and like let her go even though he knows that he's never going to see her again. He knows that all this work that he's put into this relationship and this transformation everything that he's been working for them and hoping for for these last ten years is not he's not going to see the results of it. I mean, I can definitely see a lot of like, I never knew that story about Howard Ashman but looking back now that you've said that I can see a lot of that there and and throughout the movie. I mean, there's Echoes of you know, there's there's grieving wage. There's just multiple times when different characters realize We're never going to go back to the way things work. Like this is my life. Now everything that I had before is gone and there's there's grieving there's that sense of of loss or of wanting to fix things wanting to restore things. And yeah, we don't know if they will be or not and kind of you know becoming resigned to that loss. Yeah, that's very much a part of the movie and I am glad to know some of the history behind that. Yeah. And in fact, it's dedicated to Howard Ashman and the dedication Next week trying to think about it, but he it's 2 to our friend Howard who gave a mermaid her voice and a peacock solve like that is so it's so heartbreaking. It really is it's it's so you know, and again, you know, I thankfully or home like knock on wood have a couple more years to my craft to be able to do that. But if you're staring death in the face like Howard was I can only imagine just being able to and and if you want to talk more about Howard and what he was feeling during this is a great documentary on Disney plus called Howard and it's amazing and it's one of the best I will cover it in a later episode at some point, but it's one of my favorite. I watch a constantly I cry but I watch it constantly but getting off that the the sadness of Howard. I mean I thank God that beauty and beast is a Howard Ashman Legacy it really it's sure how it Ashman. It really is. Even Alan Menken and said that Howard Ashman was definitely in the driver's seat within the Beast and you know, he fought to get his to work hard to get it done and you know, it was it was a challenge but But in the movie came out. If you couldn't tell from a million, I gushing over it it received Universal Acclaim to the point where if I'm not mistaken Run tomatoes hasn't as 100% which only a few movies actually have a hundred percent especially animated Disney movies, but it's 100% on Rotten Tomato a hundred percent certified fresh juice and at the Academy Awards, it did something that has I believe it's been done before but this is the first choice movie to have done this Beauty and the Beast was nominated for Best Picture. No animated movie even Disney, you know Snow White or whatever no movie had ever done that before that it was nominated for best picture off. You know, that was a first for Disney and just very quickly. I'm just looking up what other movies it was nominated against it was up against the movie Bugsy which range of Warren Beatty movie JFK, which is Oliver Stone Prince of Tides, which is a Barbra Streisand movie and the Academy Award winning Silence of the Lambs club, which I heard someone say, well the songs and signs on the Lambs weren't that great, but it won for best score with Alan Menken and it did win for best original song for Beauty and the Beast for Howard Ashman Alan Menken and it was the very first the catalog Award given posthumously to a person who had died of AIDS so viewing the Beast did a lot but a first month or so before we move on to part two, was there anything else you wanted to say about Beauty and the Beast the original animated movie? I'm just really I mean I learned so much tonight that I never knew about my favorite month, but I think it shows educational. Yeah, it really is. I'm just so lucky to have grown up right at the beginning of the Disney Renaissance and like walk in and to have this movie growing up where for the first time really, I mean a lot of people say that Ariel is a strong independent princess. Her one objective is to get a girlfriend and have a Disney Princess Belle is really the first who has dreams and aspirations and a purpose Beyond just falling in love and faith isn't even looking for Love at the outset. Yeah, and she was just such an and she paved the way for I think like a really positive shift in a lot of Disney ones that we saw going into the 2000s and the two thousand teens have a lot more stories about young women who were romance isn't their ultimate goal. who want to do things want to have careers want to go on adventures want to develop their powers and abilities and like I just really appreciate growing up in that era and I'm really excited to see you know, how Beauty and the Beast paved the way for a new era of movies that I think are really I think the princesses that young girls are growing up with. When I grew up and that they're growing up with now are much more positive role models than the ones that they would have had before Beauty and the Beast so that's all I have to say. Yeah, I don't think without bail. We never would have gotten Megara in Hercules, which is another strong character. I think we wouldn't get have gotten move on definitely and wage. They wouldn't we wouldn't have gotten Merida from Brave know or Moana or Elsa and Anna who in she starts out as a typical Disney princess, but proves temperamental. Yeah, or even Tiana in Princess and the Frog Josh Tiana. Yeah, Tiana and Belair definitely kindred spirits and Tiana even more so like wage I don't have time for love. I've got dreams of my own and I'm well on the way to fulfilling them without a man exactly exactly and and and and ends up being that she at the end she She falls for him, but it's a little it's a progression. It's a progression. That's a little bit better. All right, so getting into the excellent segue. I actually worked on this Segway. One of the reviews of Beauty and the Beast said it is the best Broadway musical that is not on stage. That's how someone described it and a lot of people described it as like the old-fashioned Broadway musical but it's not a Broadway musical. It's a movie. So from there what happens next Disney being Disney decides it wants to get to the Broadway musical realm and besides Beauty. The Beast is the best show to adapt into a Broadway version, the first one it was the very first one so that's no they initially it's it's one of those things. That's it's kind of what came first the chicken or the egg the original writer Linda woolverton has a month. Treatment and said I know how to adapt. I know we how we can do it and they were like, well, we don't have Howard Ashman do we have Alan Menken and so Alan Menken jump on board. It was like, yes, let's do Broadway. But here's now the question what do we do about Howard Ashman Howard, ashman's not with us and who do we have who can fill that void? And you know, we know we're going to use the songs from the original movie. But what if we want more songs, well Disney does something smart. They go to page a driveway Lyricist Veteran by the name of Tim Rice who I'm realizing has never come up on the show, which is surprising because he was my very first lyricists here. Oh, I love love love Tim Rice. I didn't really know how how how it actually was until I was much older in life. So Tim Rice was my first hero and so Tim Rice wage. I'm bored. And the first thing he does is very very smart. He gets he sits down with Howard Ashman sister and his partner and he wants approval he wants to be able to say I'm not going to touch this piece unless it is okay with you because I don't want to do a disservice to power to how its memory and they were like, we love you go be well, do you do what you do? And so they put together the Broadway musical show now Thursday, I believe Amelia. You said you've seen have you seen it or you just know the soundtrack? Oh, I've seen the Broadway show. I think it was actually the first Broadway show that I saw on a tour when I was I was really little I think like maybe five or six so I don't remember a ton of it. But after that I saw many many people profession Will Regional and Community Theater and children's Productions? I was even in the stage version when I was a teenager. So yeah, I've I know the stage version. I think I might know the cast recording of better than the original movie at this point cuz I've listened to it a lot. It's it's really great. And the fact that they were able to expand on things so, you know, and I'm willing to say which ones they are, but since we're on the Broadway version Amelia what's your favorite song from the Broadway version? Oh, it's a tough choice because I really like the songs that they added. Yeah, I think gosh, I love Bells solo home right after she arrives in the Beast Castle cuz it's just such a you know, we kind of get that moment the movie but it just takes that feeling and expands on it and I Also, really love no matter what Belle and Maurice is duet. It just expresses their relationships. So beautifully, I always loved the relationship that Bell has their father and mom I love that that song so much and the fact that the original Broadway version had America's Father Tom Bosley playing Maurice. I mean that that's perfect casting right there can't do any better than that. Yeah. I also really love if I can't love her the Beast solo at the end of act one. It's yeah, it's a good moment. And again like we kind of get that moment in the movie, but it's really really brief like after Belle leaves the west wing and he just looks at the the rose add another petal fall and he's size and defeat but like here we get a whole song and I realized when I was working with Kenny who I'm married to a gym. On a when we were in college, he was in a musical theater class and he didn't know anything about musicals. So he was like what song should I do when I was like this one? And so we were we were like working to get together and we realized that that song is the moment where the beasts decides. I can't live this way anymore. I've got to make a change when he's saying let the world be done with me like wage. I actually saw a production where they had him like pull out a dagger like he was about to kill himself and I was like that doesn't make any sense because the next time we see him, he's running after Bell and like we realized not wanting to die. He's saying let the world be done with the Beast like the way that I have been the person that I've been can't exist any longer. I need to make a change it to start now and that is such a powerful moment and it's such a beautiful song So yeah, so I've seen the Broadway version of it. I saw it in Boston wage. Came for the touring company and I have signed phaly, I saw it at the LaFontaine on Broadway and it was an odd. This is Serendipity. I was in the third row in the orchestra. What I was in the third row with my mother it was so dead a local Rec Center when I was a kid used to do. I don't think they do it anymore. But they used to do Christmas trips to New York December and February trips to New York. And what they would do is you go into New York you stay in New Jersey and you go in for a weekend and you see a Broadway show, I think Friday night Saturday night you'd see the Radio City Rockettes show and then you go home Sunday. And so at the time the show that they were offering was being the dog. How how how how they got these tickets? I don't know but all of a sudden I've given this ticket with my mom standing next to me we go in and we're in the third row now. After seeing it in Boston in the mezzanine and we still and also this would tell you how old I am. This was back when even you could buy tickets for both shows at $60 a piece. That's how that's how long ago this was and I loved it. It was amazing. It was wonderful. Erin Dilly was my my bell which was funny because initially she was the she's the understudy. We were supposed to see Andrea McArdle the original Landing as Bell, but he was not there so we did not get to see her. I don't remember. I think I saw a Stephen Barber as the Beast. I think that was his name. And it was a great I had such a wonderful time when he stood on that balcony and on the castle and saying if I can't love her I was like God. Oh my God, I need to I need to learn how to sing just so I can do that. And and I think I'm still I think it's until probably get turned forty or forty-five. I won't be able to play the the beast but I I'm still young enough that I can play the Beast now and I'm and I'm looking for a possibility to ever do that. But I would do it just to sing that song. I love that song just you know, no pain could be deeper. No life could be cheaper the lyrics that Tim Rice wrote for that song Alone. They break my heart and it's just so absolutely amazing and funny enough again. One of my favorite songs, and I don't know why his off the Maison Des Lunes when they are when they are fighting to put Maurice in The Nut House and they're singing. This is ridiculous, you know home she'd rather die than have her daddy ossified. You know, it just nuts the things I like but funny enough with the the Broadway version critics hated it. They absolutely hated the original Broadway version. They thought it was theme park. They didn't think it was real theater real art. And but as long and illustrates the audiences loved Beauty and the Beast and it launched Disney theatrical and the next show to come out after Disney theatrical. The Lion King, which of course became a huge Juggernaut and has gone on and or why that is due to Julie taymor home, but unfortunately Brewing the Beast was kind of dismissed so much so that the only thing I wanted to Tony's was best costume design. It's all one last question design, which is Herb in fact so much so that I so remember I'm in the third row. I'm trying to figure out how they did Chip wage. You can't he's on a table and you can't see so it's got to be mirrors or something, but I couldn't figure it out. I didn't remember interesting. Like I've seen chip like on the T Cathcart and but you know, the tea cart had like solid side so the kid is just like sitting underneath the little hole in the top and but you couldn't actually you can hear the bottom of it and you could see through the bottom you could see I'm with my mom and I was literally looking straight at the tea cart. And yes, it's ahead. It looks like a disembodied head with a chip around it. And you think he's in there they may have something there but you can see right through it and got a seniors. It's got the public tricks. I mean, yeah, it's amazing though really dead. And also kind of crazy my mom spent the whole time being like like she literally sat down and said how the freak do they do gym. I still don't know and we're the third row off. Of course the other the only other thing I'll tell you about the when I was in the third row of June the Beast out reminds you and Amelia. I think you you have you been to New York. You've seen shows on Broadway at all or so, it's really hard even then to get tickets that closed in the orchestra to see a Broadway Broadway show. We were 100 people in our group and I remember this like it's yesterday. She could do was complain. We're too close. It's too close. I can't see it's too blah blah blah. I can't see the year a couple of years later when we went off to reconcile Lion King on Broadway. They couldn't get as good as seats because it was a huge show. So we were up in the mezzanine and the same woman was on the trip and all I hear from her was we're too high. I can't see. Oh my goodness. So I was just like shut up. You're seeing a Broadway show shut up all the way. I don't think you know this about me but my mom and I were in the front row for the producers when make the money and Matthew Broderick was still in there. I will talk about that episode on a different episode, but that is true so long ago from so it's a Broadway hit it's it's reruns all over the place. It goes to a million different things. I equip you in the Beast very similar to Les Miserables, but maybe that's because Terrence Mann was off. First beast and Terrence Mann is amazing as the Beast and I was watching a making behind the scenes you'd think and I was when I was a kid, I was like off of these actors are part of like, oh I have to do this Disney show and it's about kids and such. I was so stupid because listening to Susan Egan and Terry man talk about choice. They could they were having a ball they were having the time of their life and because they said the material is so great. So wonderful, and now being older I'm like I was such an idiot when I was a kid to be like, oh it's a silly game show what it's the as we were saying before this so much depth and so much meaning to it any any other on last thoughts about the Broadway version a remove on to part three of this viewing the Beast trilogy. I mean do we have time to tell my story cuz I don't want to be a good time on your podcast. But please tell your story, you know, a million of them broccoli person. I mean, I wish I could remember when I saw the touring production in Boston and I it is a beautiful professional show but most of the Productions I've actually seen have been a children's theater and okay when I was like, I think I was turning eleven that summer a bunch of my mom's students sheet music teacher in Lexington, which has Lexington Mass has an amazing music program. They have tons of kids that do like instrumental music and chorus and a bunch of dead kids from the school where she taught were in this summer camp where they were doing Beauty and the Beast and she knew, you know my obsession with the movie. She's like hey, do you want to go see this? I know some kids who were in it. And also I know you love em, In the Beast and so I was like, yes, so we went and it was you know, I'd seen the touring production when I was just a little girl and only remember took. Bits and pieces, but I consider that summer. Production and even though you know, it was a very immature like very low budget like kids from I think like seven to eighteen years old and like, you know, it was very simple to it was cuz you know, it was a summer camp. They didn't have a ton of time to build fancy sets or fancy costumes. So like the costuming was very minimal with set wage was just like a few pieces that they would move around too. You know, it's like oh on this side, it's got like flowers and it's part of the village on this side. It's got stonework and part of the castle. But even with that I consider that production my first experience of Beauty and the Beast on stage cuz I remember watching these kids and thinking wow, some of these kids are not that much older than me. Some of these kids are the same age and And they're telling this story and they're bringing it to life and I want to do that. Like I don't want to just watch this story anymore. I want to be a part of it. Well that's going to be back someday. And so that that I consider like really a life-changing moment. And that's why to this day I am like so thankful to Beauty and the Beast full the movie version and the stage version like without that I probably wouldn't have met you cuz I probably wouldn't be doing theater and wouldn't have majored in it and wouldn't have gone on to work with still small so long and wouldn't be here talking about being the Beast. Yeah, it's gonna it was a real life-changer, even though it was, you know, not some amazing professional production. It's still the show off my life, you know, if a show can do that It's a really it's really good material. And I and you told me that story a couple of days ago and in preparation for the ssam want to make sure we got to that. So yeah, thank you know like to share it course. I love that story. Um. All right. So as we're leaving the Broadway musical, of course Disney wanting to make a buck and unfortunately my maybe a million might be different than me. But as we talked about the next part three in the final part of this viewing the Beast I will be less enamored with Beauty and the Beast. I don't know if familiar will be similar, but I will definitely not have a shining light on it, but we go into the 2007 live-action version of viewing the Beast. Yeah, I'm with you. We didn't need it. It wasn't required. I I understand why they did it. And this is a theory I have and I have a lot of research to back this up in a lot of evidence. So back in the nineties Frank Wells my glasses on my guys. There is a greedy dude and he made a lot of bad decisions for Disney as a company, but one of the reasons you can he made was to basically take all the old films and basically it was like money printing put him out on VHS and allowed them to be, you know seen as a commodity and not as a treasured item like things are going into the 2000s an issue with the new technology Disney is looking at things and it's not Eisner. This is Iger they're looking at things the same way. So they're rehashing all of their old movies instead of a game. Meeting new ideas and writing news stories. They are taking their own properties and basically making them new again and putting new things. Now as a as a theater person. This shouldn't bother me because there are things called revivals and people do revivals all the time. But there are purposes their reasons why people want to do these to me all of these live-action you may are just money-grabbing. It's just gratuitous read and money-laundering to main some of them made speak to other people and amini might have a different point of view to that. But to me, they don't add anything to the legacy of the movies. I can watch the old versions of all these movies and still feel something off these new ones. They don't do anything for me. I mean, I don't know if you have a similar thought or if you if you think differently yeah pretty much. I mean it may be that we were lucky enough dog. Grow up with the original versions and that is really special and you know, they hold such special places in our hearts. I don't think anything could compare but I haven't seen all of the remakes off. The one that I did really like was Cinderella, but that's because I didn't have much of a history with the the original but with Beauty and the Beast and yeah, we like I said, we didn't need it. The original was so beautiful. And so well done and I just didn't feel like any of the things that they added or changed really added anything to the story that wasn't already there before that was necessary like I feel like if you're going to remake something you should. Improve on it in some way and this definitely did not yeah. Yeah. I mean it's kind of hard to improve on something. That's already perfect. That's just sit and when I was watching Beauty and the Beast again a channel nineteen, ninety one, I realized how much of a a forward motion the whole movie is. It doesn't let up at all. It's very much tells its story and keeps rolling keeps the momentum going. The first thing I noticed when I started watching the 2017 is it's very slow. It feels very slow. Like okay, we're going to get these points were going to show these things we're going to do this and that you don't need to and also maybe I don't know maybe it's the the idiots like me but I don't need to know about Bells mom's backstory. I don't care. I mean I had always been kind of curious about that. But that's what fan fiction is 4 a.m. Like I actually had come up with a headcanon that was fairly similar to what they showed in the movie, but I felt like all of the you know, there's a lot of exposition and there's a lot of backstory and you're right it just kind of drags the pace of the story. It's not as concise as the original and for a kids movie like you need to be concise because yeah children only home Such a long attention span and the original story just flows so nicely and that's why it speaks to people because it's simple it's tight. It's easy to follow and it sucks possible the 2017 version it felt like they kind of were Meandering away from the main story at some points and didn't need to yeah, and we should say the it's kind of great cast, you know, Emma wants and Dan Stevens Luke Evans Kevin Kline Disney Catherine from Hunchback of Notre Dame Josh Gad our own Olaf from Frozen Edwin McGregor Stanley Tucci Audra McDonald and miquelon, Emma Thompson, here's part of also the other problem I have with the 2017. You hire Audra McDonald one of the most amazing operatic voices on Broadway ever thought you know, since Ethel Merman one of the most recognizable voices since Ethel Merman, I'll say it I don't care you give her a supporting role where she yes you give her an aria. Okay, there's a song called Maria the very beginning. It's a nothing song and then at the very end you give her like just a couple of bars of Beauty and the Beast what is wrong with you? Why don't you give this woman something substantial to do in the same? Yeah. She was wasted in that it was all wasted in this song great job. But yeah, and I couldn't get Emma Thompson. Nearly nearly McPhee is not is not mrs. Pott's and I was listening to it again. There's so much autotune. In the singing of this. I hate to throw it on M A Emma Watson because I do like her as an actress, uh her performance in the most recent Little Women one of them wonderful wonderful performance in that movie Bling Ring. She was wonderful and bring me she has a lot of Great Performances when she starts to sing. It just takes me out of the home absolutely completely and I'm moving musical shouldn't do that like, you know, if she couldn't sing do an Audrey Hepburn Natalie Wood situation, you know, obviously you can't get jobs Nixon to do it, but get someone else and someone to sing her her bits it just it threw me off and so the other way to talk about some of the reason why I wanted to also talk about guests on in the original version. He's such a buffoonish character. He's but he he doesn't really get Evil, he's not really evil. He just doesn't know any better to me and at the very end you see his selfishness and egotism and narcissism come out in the original invention. I thought that was fine in this 2017. He's a villain. There's no doubt. He's a villain to the point that he actually gave lunches Kevin Kline for no real reason. Like there's no reason people should like and the fact that Josh Josh gad's lefou is clearly paying people to sing guests time with him. It just makes no sense to me, you know, like Yeah, he's a lot more intelligent than the original Gaston. Yeah, and I don't think yeah. I thought it was just another thing that didn't really add anything that needed to be there. Yeah. Yeah, so they it was nothing there for that. They try to add some more so and the the reason why I want to bring up the Stockholm syndrome thing is that they seemingly try to And I maybe it was Emma Watson had concerns with the script. They seemingly tried to correct what they thought was wrong in the original 1991 to make both terrorists more Independence and that they would eventually come together. But the problem I think ended up happening was that they were too independent. I personally didn't feel a chemistry and I didn't feel like they that the the ballroom scene and the ending. I don't think they earned it in this in the 2017 and the 1991. It was beautiful. I was crying in this I was like, okay, I didn't get it. I don't think it spoke to me personally. I don't know if you had any kind of similar. Yeah, I like the idea of the Beast being like literate and a little bit of a nerd and fell in the beasts pondering over that song. I like the concept but the scenery gives her the library and he's he doesn't even give it to her as a gift to like in the the original we're talking about how it's such a beautiful moment or he's like, oh, oh this will make her really happy and he's like so excited. He can't wait to show it to her. And and then when she sees it like she's so overjoyed and then overwhelmed cuz she realizes oh he did something for me just to make me happy. I guess he does care and in the 2017 version they're like, I don't know. He like insults her favorite play God. They're talking about Shakespeare. Oh, yeah, like I like Romeo and Juliet. He's like, oh you have no taste and then he's like here let me show you real books. These are good books, and it's honest wage. Like kind of being a jerk like kind of throws her into the libraries like here read some good books like yeah get rid of you cuz you have lame tastes peasants and life. It's not a grand gesture. He's just like yeah, I have a lot of books. They're better read them educating yourself and then like later we see them, you know conversing and founding of her poetry. They do take a little more time to develop the relationship, but honestly, I don't think it was needed time. Like they did accomplish they failed to accomplish in several additional scenes what the original version did in one song. Yeah. Yeah, and I like the original that it was a castle that no one knew about a name that it like there. They had to discover it. They had to find it in this one the spell the spell that's put on the Beast and the rest of the objects. It's also put off. The the the townspeople in that they don't remember but yet when they go into the castle after the Mob song the guy who plays mr. Rajapaksa's a mr. Potts apparently says this looks familiar. I wonder if you'd like weird and also like I don't think it's I don't know for a fact but I'm not sure it's historically accurate that you would have a spout one spouse working as a servant in a castle, which is a pretty high position and the other spouse just like living in the village. I am pretty sure that's not historically accurate and doesn't make any sense. If you're if you're a surf your your entire family is a surf or if surface or whatever, you know, like a Tradesman but like yeah, if you're working in a house in a Royal household, that's a good position and like and your husband's equal rank. Well and the husband could have birth. Chef it could have been a chef that like, yeah, so we see the cook the cook in the original version is like oh this gone to waste and all this and you know, I mean there's there's all sorts of positions in a in a castle you need a lot of servants that would be room. There would be plenty of room. We only highlight these couple this amp and doesn't have a couple people and I have to don't add me cuz it's not I'm not saying that I as everyone knows I'm a friend and an ally to gay straight Alliance, but with the little Tzus storyline that and the fact that Disney pushed it so much of like in the marketing, you know, they made it present of like, oh, it's Disney very first gay character in the movie, you know. Oh my God, you can't wait to see. It's only because Josh Gad decides to play it a feminine. He's not to me. He's not outwardly being like it makes no sense to me that it's funny the second time that I saw the movie in theaters. I I was looking for that like the first time I went just to enjoy it and then I read about that whole thing and then I went to Seattle. Okay, is it there and I was like, yeah, I can kind of see it's very subtle. I did kind of like that. They had lefou have a moment where he realizes that Gaston is a jerk and he doesn't want to be associated with this person like that. I did like but I I didn't like I like that they had him sort of start to question Gaston, but I'm not really buying that whole art so much know and I do agree with you. I think the flu had probably the one of the better. Editions in terms of his character are you know, cuz if you got Josh Gad you want him to do silly things in to say so many things but some of it came off a little too long like the food wouldn't have said that or or whatever like you says to the three women who in the original movie where like fawning over guests on the whole time. He actually sets them it's not going off and then walks away like that's not if you want to do that really but you're right. I like his art, but he does like he actually openly says I feel bad that we did that tomorrow. He said we tied him up and that little turn in the thing where they looked to a foo and they say, you know all the food you saw him. Right and the food denies it and then he goes bad about it. And then he he goes on to the side of The good guys so, you know, he kind of redeemed himself that was kind of cool. But at the same time there was a lot of it was gratuitous to me because number one Josh Gad is not a gay young man. He's married with I think one or two kids. So yeah, you know it does you know and for the record I would just like to say, you know for anyone who's listening may I also support people of all orientations and you know identities having happy relationships and being represented in media. I'm totally want to see more representation, but I want to see that also me and opportunities for actors in The LGBT communities. Exactly. Yes. We don't need more straight people pretending to be gay but it would be awesome to see more representation that is actually there and log Just like a little subplot. That's so subtle that if you're looking for it with a magnifying glass you could maybe piece it together know like you're going to do it do it and somebody who's actually one of the people who needs representation. Tell the story. I think I think what probably ended up happening was when they were shooting Josh Gad made all these thoughts little suggestions and all that cuz Josh Gad is an inventive actor and I love Josh, I really do, you know very much a modern. I would give them a modern Chris Farley the definitely has that same kind of hilarity quality to him and very much a child like actor. But I have a feeling he just did all this crazy stuff in the director was like, oh we could have our first gay character. So let's add this and cut it that way and and it didn't come out until the move already come out. So it was afterwards that they were like, yeah, this is our first game character like what they were trying what Disney was trying to do is Pat themselves on the back and be like, hey, look what we did. This is great. You know, we don't need that. We need we need LPG to community directors writers with actors and actresses tell us are their stories from their point of views and not myself a heterosexual writing, you know, writing a whole story from to them like, oh I'm going to explain the gay community cuz I know about it. I don't know anything about it, you know, so I you know, I'd rather learn from someone who knows those experiences that I don't suck. But yes, we are both very much supporters. And and and what have you but without all that being said there were a couple of decent songs. I added, you know, I don't know if normally I would say what is your favorite but as you can tell neither one of us really care for 2017, but do you have any songs new songs that were added to this version that you like know? I like the I like the songs that were added for the musical so much better and they had like songs that way we're kind of taking the place of those songs, but my main problem with the songs that they added were that They didn't hit the right emotional beats. They were at the wrong places in the story. Like the main one that I have a beef with is ever more. Yes. I'm a beautiful song but it's trying to do the same thing as if I can't love her but it's at the wrong point in the story. It's like this big huge emotional song, but it comes after like it's just a song about how he's like, I've lost everything. I was like who wants to hear a song that it's like the the Beast You know his his powerful want his intention is like over at that point. He has no intention. He his intention is to be sad and let everybody know off of sad he is. Yeah, and I just I think if I can't love her as a much more powerful emotional, there's no journey in ever more well, and that's the same thing over and over so I'm curious to hear what you think of the new songs. I was going to ask you about that. So yeah disagree with me. So my my example of Journey songs or songs that people right to tell in a musical my example of on this being my example on page not to do is from the musical Jekyll and Hyde, this is the moment. This is the moment is a beautiful song. It is a wonderful wonderful song. But it's not a musical song because at the very beginning of the song, dr. Jekyll is already decided he's going to take the potion himself. Yeah. So all you're doing all you're doing is biting 3 minutes of him going down to his laboratory to then be like, well, this is the moment I'm going to do it but you already knew that it'd be different if he was like I thought well, okay, maybe like I maybe I can think about maybe I can steal a patient. Maybe I can do this. Maybe I can do this. You know, what's my father he means so much to me. I have to do this I have may I have to make the decision before the song starts. He's already decided he's going to take the potion. It's the worst example of a of a song and Frank wildhorn. Unfortunately. It's the king of song writing beautiful Melodies and having beautiful beautiful songs. But they don't do anything to Progress character or progress plot. Evermore is a wonderful song. I like the song. I Love The Melody because it's very similar to if you if you if I can't love her. But Amelia is absolutely right about it does nothing for the story The Character doesn't decide something at the end. He just watches her go. And if you remember in the original version in the 1991 version when Belle leaves he says, you know, also, let's talk about this for a second. He doesn't even say he loves her. Mrs. Potts has to say that he loves To cogsworth that is infuriating to me. And then this song is supposed to be the Ark of him being like Oh, I do love her and I love her forever more whatever. It makes no sense to me. It's a great song It's a song that I listen on repeat just because it's I think it's got a beautiful Melody, but it does nothing to the story. It's you can take it out of the show and not have it be a wonderful top single which adviser Josh Groban singing it the one song that I did actually like again, it does nothing for the plot, but the one song didn't like because it gave more recent little bit especially since it's Kevin Kline playing him is the very first version of how does a moment last forever. I did like that because we get more recent little bit. He's a little bit of a sad character and he gets to kind of lip sing along with this music box office kind of like that. But then when we go into Emma Watson singing This is the Paris of my childhood, I don't care I don't care off days in the sun is a terrible song. It's one of the worst how how that's been Alan Menken has ever written and I'm so sad that civil rights had to write that with them. The Aria is a terrible song. I'm sorry, but they give Audra McDonald this fire and it's terrible. It's a terrible terrible song but in life and you know in the media is Right, none of the songs add anything to the story and they don't They're just there to be gratuitous. I think most of them they were like, oh, we'll add this song and we'll get an Oscar nomination. No, you didn't you didn't get anything so long to finish up with the movie. I have just one question for you Amelia. I know the answer but I definitely want to know what you think. Was it worth it to get a long version of Beauty and the Beast as a live-action film. I mean, I was really excited when I saw that it was coming out because I you know, it looked beautiful and Visually it's gorgeous home and But and you know, I had hoped that like, oh they're going to dive into some of the characters backstories. Okay, cool. They're going to put in some new songs boy. I hope they put in some of the ones in the musical cuz that's a really good and I was just overall pretty disappointed with it. I re-watched it recently as I was finishing up my Halloween costume, which is been a ball gown from the original definitely the original but I was re-watching the movie and I was like, yeah. No, I keep coming back to it off every couple of years and being like, okay, maybe did I miss something as it gotten no know each time. I watch it. I'm more disappointed. I'm more like I'm just going to go watch. I'm just going to pause and watch the animated version again, cuz that was Flawless. Yeah, and unfortunately, I think this thing is following the path that they But they followed in the late in the mid-to-late nineties. After all these great movies came out in these wonderful original movies in the Beast Little Mermaid Lion King and when a few months they had to capitalize so what do they do? They did direct-to-dvd sequels and for those out there who think I'm going to talk about Bell sequels. I'm going to mention them. We're not diving deep in them Bell had two sequels. No three three sequels. And stretching familiar space. I wish you could see it. I don't know if she knew that these three actually exists. I've seen one of them and I I knew that there were a couple of others that were like shorts, right? There's like the weirdness of the like live action Belle in a bookstore reading to A bunch of real children, and then it goes into like animated shorts about her time in the castle why so the first sequel was Beauty and the Beast and the Enchanted Christmas? Yeah. That's the one I have seen that was more. I agree. That was creepy and it's still creepy. I re-watched it last Christmas. It's still terrifying well and not not for nothing, but it's voiced by Tim Curry. So you're getting nothing but with that off and slightly better though slightly. There's only two songs from that that are at all good, but they're nothing compared to the dog. The Originals, so I think it's on Disney plus watch it. Don't watch it. It's not that it's not worth talking about and then viewing the beat the being the Beast and Belle's magical world wage. I have never seen and I do not plan to see and then I think this is the one that million was talking about Bells Tales of Friendship. They might be on Disney plus I don't know off but my point is telling you telling about all these is Disney is plenty follow-ups. So right now Dan Stevens and Emma Watson our contract early obligated and scheduled to be in a Beauty and the Beast live action 2017 follow up. That's all I have to say about. What is the follow-up? Is it like a comedy short where there there's a plague in France and they're quarantined. Like we all are cuz like that I would want to see but I do not want a sequel to the live-action Beauty and the Beast no, thank you. I would love to do a parody of that. We are stuck with your stuck. We're stuck in the house, So I actually did start writing of a parody of our guests and they're also talking about I think it's a Disney thumb series probably for Disney plus and it's called Little Town. I don't know where the story yeah origin story we get to learn about the baker who carries his tray like always, you know, if it was about growing up in this boring village where nothing happens and everyone is near am I didn't hate sir. No time. I mean there's potentially I love Bell. But yeah, and if if I get to hear more infection as for Life, yeah, and if I could to hear more Paige O'Hara playing Bell, I'd be into a you know, as much as I love Emma Watson. I don't need to see her play Bell again. She did it was fine what's called so leaving the terribleness of the 2007 and only talking about the animated nineteen, ninety one thousand and the robbery version Amelia any final thoughts anything that we didn't talk about that you wanted to talk about or anything that that We didn't properly expand on no, I think we've covered it all in thank you for letting me talk so much about both of those. I'm sorry that I went on so long these I could I could go on about oh, here's the thing. I was going to talk talk about just really quickly Bell and the original 1991 version her Cottage is away from the city. She has to go into town to see everything in mixture more. Just disjointed from the rest of the town in the 2017 version Shaq is right in the middle of town whenever it's stupid expensive office building a set to keep things as compact as possible. But yeah and lose intention and you lose story and you lose character and you lose obstacle but that's just me I care about things like structure and intent and and conflict but what have you but anyway, I really want to bank everyone for listening. I really really really want to thank Amelia for coming back on the show. She was here last week for Godspell and we went along time. This one was a little bit more organized. So I I hope she appreciates that I didn't want to I want to make sure we got to these things and like I said before the stories cuz I knew I she had told me how much a month. The show the show mentor and so I wanted to make sure you have the space in the time to be able to tell these stories cuz they're very good and they they're very inspiring, you know, get you into this crazy gig of of theater in Live Theater. So but I really want to thank you for coming on the show again. And you know, as always you'll you're always welcome, but I really appreciate it and it's always a pleasure really. I have so much fun talking with you about our favorite shows and stuff. It's so it's awesome. And I want to thank everyone for listening to this episode check out previous episode check out the merch. I have check out everything and please stay tuned for October 16th, when the first episode of the movie critics comes on which a million I again our choice in as well as a wonderful grade cast as well. As you know, Andrew cleaning Patrick McCormick Rachel barrows, Emma Kennedy Anne Marie King, Chris Rose Josh Workman in a great bunch of a special guest stars. So wonderful, wonderful cast. I you know, I love them all and I'm so grateful directed by the one before Amanda her when he was my partner in the whole thing, but Thursday, Well so much for listening. I don't think it would be fair. If we didn't leave them with Tale As Old As Time? Is it can be even forever then? Somebody bends unexpectedly. I don't remember the rest. I messed it up. No, I messed it up by going into the first verse but now you're fine. Hey, I am so long. Have a good night everyone off to the kapiti now Chip. It's past your bedtime. Good night boss. When you're looking to plan your next Disneyworld Disneyland or Disney Cruise Line vacation, we suggest you reach out to Danielle Elliott at marvelous Mouse travels. Danielle is a long lifelong Disney Enthusiast the format Walt Disney World cast member and a graduate of the College of Disney knowledge when you book with her your booking includes a hundred percent free concierge-level services some of which include customizing the perfect Disney vacation package for you and your family and your budget booking those difficult to secure a fast passes and dining reservations providing tips and tricks to get the most of your vacation and more Danielle also monitors Disney promotions to help you save money for those Disney trip veterans still be in control of all the details page will take care of all your needs so you can have all the fun and truly say hakuna matata throughout your time at Disney contact her for your free quote at Daniel Elliott. Louis Mouse travels one word.com or by messanger messing messaging her on her Facebook page

Howard Ashman Disney Howard Ashman Howard Amelia Smith Alan Menken Howard Ashman Alan Menken Belle Little Mermaid AIDS Bell New York partner Maurice Jeffrey katzenberg Tim Rice Angela Lansbury Disney Renaissance New Jersey Jeffrey director
Howard Ashman Documentary

Maltin On Movies

2:10:35 hr | 2 months ago

Howard Ashman Documentary

"Hi everybody we want to thank our sponsor legion 'em. They are a wonderful company we love working with them. You can go to their website, legion 'em. They're also on all the various socials they do really fun meet ups You can talk to directors you can become a part of the projects they choose. The even have a program right now where you can help them find great movies to support so. Go to their website to learn more, we also want to remind you that we have a patriotic that we call multi on. You can join us we have three dollars, five dollars, ten dollars, twenty dollar options. You can get newsletters from my dad all kinds of neat stuff behind the scenes hang out with US learn about who our guests are before anybody else and listened to the podcast before anybody else. Go Patriot dot com slash Multan on movies for more information that's Patriot dot com slash Maltin on movies. Margaret Buddy I'm Leonard Maltin and I'm guessing Malton and we have unusual episode today of Maltin on movies for you because we were so impressed with Don Hahn's new documentary Howard to Howard Ashman story, which is now playing on Disney plus that we want to tell you more about it and about its subject the brilliant lyricist Howard Ashman. And to do so we spoke to his life partner Bill Louk his sister Sarah Gillespie. His director on several films including the Little Mermaid John Muscular the voice of Belle and beauty and the beast page O'Hara and the incredible. Incomparable. Alan Menken. Getting to speak to each of them about Howard and this documentary. was really really special for us, and so this is going to be a longer episode. We'll introduce each person as their segment begins. But we really hope that you'll take the time to watch the film yourself It's really really something special and he was an incredible man and we hope that this this film Help sort of extend this man's legacy because he has had such an impact on. All of us. On Disney culture and popular culture general So here are interviews and the. This is bill. Bill did you have any hesitation at? Revealing. The story of you and Howard and what you experienced. No none at all I trusted. Don. Hahn, as you know, he had been in our life for many decades, really many years and so when he came to Sarah and said, he wanted to make a film about Howard it was after he had kind of introduced that idea in waking sleeping beauty. There is a lovely section of that movie that addressed Howard's contribution to the Disney Company and he said he wanted to flesh that out and do a full feature documentary about him. And of course, there's always things that you kind of hope for to happen and things you don't want to go in it and stuff like that. But I ultimately trusted dawn and that's always been my instinct when you're dealing with really talented people is to just give them permission and get out of the way and let them do their their work. That's very wise and and you are right. Don would never don went into this with the intentions and with the hair and the love, and it really comes across I think an end. It is lovely to see your relationship and how you cared for each other and your honesty. Because it's a lot to welcome someone into your life and even that shot at the Oscars there you are with epic hair by the way. That's. Real, Star of this movie is the hair. Curly hair is minute. Same thing. Do. But you know to get up there and to say what you said about this is the first person who passed from AIDS. And is getting an academy. I mean that's huge. I kind of had a feeling it was huge and it needed to be marked in some significant way, and of course, Howard sister who accepted a golden globe on his behalf would have done. A beautiful job is mother would have done a very nice job but there's something really profound about his surviving partner doing at that makes a statement beyond. Just. Representing him. It's representing a whole sector of people within the community that were being decimated by this disease, and that's kind of why push very hard to be there and do that. See. That's you the family I think that. Part of what is so powerful is because your involve the family is involved, it's a real I feel like you get a sense of Howard as a whole person. Yes. Musical jobs were not a question lyricist extraordinaire not a question. We know this you know and I'm I'm born in Nineteen, eighty six. So I'm like Prime Howard Lover Your Little Mermaid beauty in the beast generation one of them's devastating aspects to me emotionally. Is the fact that? With. The challenges. Of trying to continue. Working. In spite of the the ravages that AIDS brought on. On top of that. He was trying to keep it secret. Yes I just can't picture. Living that way over such a long span of time. How did the to you do? it was difficult We had a small circle of people that we confided in. Sara. Howard sister was one and his agent at William Morris Agency was one. Not, even Alan wasn't until the after the Academy Awards for the little. Mermaid that Allen was brought into the circle and for a while was not too hard to keep up the regular appearance of things how all through most of nineteen eighty-eight Howard traveled back and forth to California But toward the end of that year, it was getting more and more difficult and when he was asked to sign on for beauty and the beast, that's when he said I I'm going to have to. Be Frank with Jeffrey Katzenberg and go in and have a meeting with him. So when we did I drove him in I don't know what day of the week it was but it was a work day during the week and he went to the offices there on Park Avenue went upstairs very nervous and just came clean with him and told him. What was going on? and. Said you know if you want me to do this project which I really WanNa do. You'll have to make it more in in my area than me traveling to the filmmaking and to their great credit. They stepped up to the plate and made it very easy for Howard to do that that next movie but the yeah keeping the secret was took its toll. We left New York that's a we were building this house to begin with. So we just moved up there and sort of stayed out of the circles where. Would be asking questions you know. It's such a it's such a difficult. On a personal note might my dad has Parkinson's and? we knew for almost five years before telling anyone. And Finally I said to my dad if you're honest about it, it'll just make your life easier because you won't have to explain. Why you can't do something or why you might be tired and I feel like it. It has done that. I feel like having people know does allow you to say you know what I need to rest your you know. And people get it but it is definitely, very difficult choice. and again he's so lucky that he had the support that he had with all of you. I'm glad you did because really what it does is it separates the pack and it allows those people that want to support you to come to your aid and be there for you and those that have a problem with it. Just kind of go away and you really don't need them anyway. Sir. Now. Need that now not at all. So what? The two questions I want to ask everyone today is. What's your favorite thing about Howard? What drove you crazy. and. What do you want people to get out of this dome? I'll start with the last one I because that's the easiest. I hope that people what people get from this film is feeling like they met Howard and I think don has succeeded in large part in that way I mean every every documentary about a person's life is a bit of a portrait is like an artist painting, a picture of that person they capture a moment in time or a gesture or something significant about them that tells you a part of them, but it's not the whole person but because don used. So much of what he found a of Howard actually speaking to people and and talking about his work. I think it gives you a really broad spectrum of what he was like in that portrait granted. It's still just you know a portrait but I think people. Who who never got the chance to meet him have something of an experience of meeting him I. Love that. What I what I loved about Howard is is his obviously his talent, his ambition, his drive I just loved him and admired him and I think what most people didn't realize just how generous he was how how inclusive how he wanted everyone to go on this great ride with him. Every project that that he did whether it was an. Theater. Or film was about a community effort a group that that would sort of. He would even have the vision and he would try and sell that vision to everybody in the group and then said, you know it was kind of like come on. Let's go do it and it made it fun for a lot of people Jodi we'll talk about that I'm sure I'm how he sort of. Took people along with him on the ride. That was just something that's extraordinary in people and I've been around the arts in my whole life through architecture. But I've always known people in music and dance and theatre is just been something that I'm drawn to and Howard heads such an exceptional gift in in that way. What drove me nuts about him I don't know all the. listed. Yeah. Yeah. He was he. You know he's determined. He was intense he he was really persistent on things and but but he was pretty easy to live with You know he just sort of let me do the cleaning which he didn't care about. He loved clean. Orderly House and I do too. But I'm the one that that really cares about it more. So he just got out of the way that you take care of it. Ron, wise division of late. Yes. Built. Thank you so much for coming with us in helping to share the story Yup. Thank you. It's been my pleasure and Jesse I want to thank you for your advocacy for small filmmakers as you do a lot of the independent films in the spot small filmmakers are are the fertile soil that the great ones are grown in. So always and it's it's it's it's an honor. Honestly. Sarah Gillespie. Sarah, did you have any hesitation and sharing? Intimate aspects of. Howard story with with the public through this fill. Honestly. Yes. and there are intimate. Moments said I won't share now You know. I want the world to know Howard and I trust on entirely to do it. Right and well but I also, there are parts of Howard. There are moments with Howard that remind alone absolutely Utah an end to make it public one, some of them are. As. He was ill I think it would not think he'd want shared and some of them are things that I treasure and sometimes when you let world have your treasurer, stop speaking your treasure. I didn't. Yes. There are things I held back and their other people in the. In the film kind of take their moment about that. But I am I didn't want to share about my last conversation with him. Out that was hours. She'll and you don't, and that's the thing you know as. Being able to speak to bill into you. It's so special because that's obviously another side of his life. That's not the show Biz. That's not you know that's the real human being and. I absolutely believe that I got to know him and feel like I knew him and when it ended was angry that he wasn't here for us to spend time with so I I definitely went from just being fan because of course. I. Am I'm I'm the perfect age for someone who's been shaped in every way by Howard? And and I think the documentary in talking about just what he brought. To film, it is so significant. For to our culture, all of it Yup. Significant. To me it's it's. It's a first of all. That's done. Now, that the choices Don Mehta's director but what he brought to culture and hearing people like you. It never gets old and I never I never Never quite a an don't believe it like I. Don't believe you but it still astonishing to me horse. At that, he had that effect and that that he. What he did for my childhood, he seems to done for so many childhoods, which is shocking gene shock and wonderful. Because because you're just living your life, you're not you're not seeing it from the same perspective. Obviously. Yeah, and the loss is very devos young. One of the things that struck me most was that he knew who he was. And what he wanted to be doing. From the age of six, maybe even before I think before. I mean, he was three years older than me. So I was six I was only three. So I can't I can't say I remember much but. And it wasn't just theater it was I. mean you know the back the back backyard productions that he that he did were extravaganzas. I would put it on a backyard. Carnival or something by you would do in that, he would do gypsy I mean. Of years old and producing gypsy. he did his. One of the first shows it's not in the film is called a little avenues pork chops based on the course, the comics character it was not the musical abner I think Howard did it himself he? wrote it I got to be a God I can't remember her he made made her up and I know I know I popped out of a trash Kim was very glamorous. Thank thank you or our but you know From from day one and when he wasn't directing something he was. If he couldn't do the show, he would do the publicity. So he you know posed a girl sandy a girl from the neighborhood in the window of her we lifted wrote houses in the window of her house like. God, help her sitting out over parents back, which was on the second floor. Yeah or have with our lake out his Peter Pan and you take the photo he had me posed as. An piano, the well of course, you know the phone by saying. But the film lily Based on Carnival and he had he had made a poster lily and he had a little handmade puppet poking up from after behind the poster and he had need. Host my six year old self whatever posed as Lilly you know now it was. It was. It was beyond his wanting to be an those ability was an actor and a singer, and he would say from my Grandpa from my grandmother's friends and he would. Sing for anybody who would listen to him he was. He was that kid. It's It's a an obviously that was his destiny Jackley and and then that's an interesting point. It was his destiny honestly. Had He never? been this is something I really wish people could understand. Had He never in? The person that got little shop on off Broadway you had he ever. Gotten. It had Jeffrey Kassenberg and David. Geffen never said, you know you gotta we gotTa have this Guy There are incredibly creative people out there who live and die without. That with without that, it wasn't a slam dunk. You know there was where he was going to go into publishing because he didn't see that he could maybe make this work I think he really he never would have stopped I think he would have started a little children Cedar, which was kind of a passion I don't know if you speaking to Alamein but he About. but you know he he. It was his passion. It wasn't just I'm going to be he never. He really did never say I'm going to be famous. I'm going to you know make fortunate this none of that. It was something he really had to do. Well, it's it's amazing. You know none of us know how much time we have but it is pretty incredible to see that. In the time he did have he did accomplished he accomplished as much in that short time as some will in their entire career and many will never do. You know. When you just look at even the smallest fits if you just look at the Disney films and little shop is a whole other. Who Doesn't love that it's an amazing show. It's incredible music who doesn't love that. But if you just look at the Disney films that would be enough to to put you, you know it into the stars. It's really it just blows my mind. The whole thing was my mind and he really was so special. I mean I mean to downplay it all who Howard was. She was extraordinary downplaying in the slightest. You're honest. He's a person. He's a whole person. You know there's good and bad at it. That is life. You're saying that he would've been fulfilled. Creatively. Even history had just been a local children's grew if it wasn't a war. Not, I mean certainly he loves success and I've said this Howard. Is on the few I've ever known who got better with success non he he did enjoy and I and I did just over here bill saying and it's really true. He wanted other people to enjoy to it was you know he brought you into the pleasure he was happy. Then that was a one you know as I say, I, I was I was up nobody's actress but he you know he brought me into that world and then I did wind up frankly in college majoring in theater only because Howard seemed to be having so much fun. I thought I WANNA do that two. Wonderful Gosh. That's wonderful. So the same the same. Question. I'm going ask each of you. What was your favorite thing about him? What drove you crazy and what do you hope people take away from the film? I'm GONNA TAKE THEM IN ORDER my favorite thing. Honestly. Was the childhood he gave me. Not, all deny my parents have a great deal to do with that. But, and it wasn't all perfect. But the childhood he gave me he truly because of family circumstances he he took care of me and he was in some ways very parental and I saw it later as he I saw him doing that later with other people he'd liked being a mentor he liked being parental so I was A. A grateful beneficiary of that and I. That's an end. It doesn't matter how old we got. You know I kept going when he? I kept older he'll. He'll always be forty to me here But. I will always treasure what I got when I had in those in those years he sang lullabies I was I was very very. Very blessed in that. So That's my favorite thing. The thing that drove me crazy. Is that he was so smart and with that smart came. Just. Not glibness. He could. He could do impressions he could he could be. Seen in a very funny way and honestly when I was going for a final interview with with With Tom I called. My very my closest friend and how it's very good. Nancy parents is all throughout the film and like called Nancy and I said you know I wanNa tell funny when I wanNa make sure it is clear and there is how funny how it was he was I couldn't think honestly, I couldn't think of a moment where I could share with Don. That one didn't lose in the translation because he was funny in the moment. Sure to offend somebody. So I. mean. So. You knew he was so art, and so that's a positive. But on it would crazy and I was always a little prayed that he was doing the me behind my back. was. I was Nancy story was. And what do you hope people take away from this own? I hope that they get a little bit of a better idea. Of the man an of. Jour- of the man as opposed to itchen. To the Creator also hope they get went when died I honest he'd be forgotten Didn't think he I don T hadn't even come out. but I. Much special. Latin. But I I really thought he'd be forgotten or he'd be may be remembered as the guy who did some A good show on New York and. Honest started his web site as reply on him years ago. Because I wanted the world to know who he was I. Little thing didn't do that. But I hope dons and the way it's being distributed. Does do that let people? He was an all he did not just for Disney, but all he did and. The brilliance and the kindness and humor. the full man who was there and the great love. For Bill was was absolute. Loved you he loved you inner way he wanted to fix you. He wanted to mold you wanted. To bring you with him on hits. On this journey was having. At steph thank thank you. That's so beautiful and I really genuinely we we both feel that that's exactly what is going to happen. And already has since you know since the movie came out. Even just for us. I think that we got to know him in a way that. I never would have imagined. And I've gone from just being a fan of course of the work to being a fan of the man himself. He's not. He's in no danger of being forgotten never never ever. It it is amazing. What you what you worry about, but it's Worse Sarah Thank you so much for giving us a little time. This morning, I, I had to put my glasses so I can get out of here. I truly I really been an honor. Thank you. This is John Muster. I stand in Awe. Creative people. You're a creative person you you saw. On. Side creative people. So yes, I don't have that that branch of creativity that yeah, that's me. Did, you never dry up such a Disney fan I would think you would have done drawing I wanted to be a cartoonist, not an animator cartoonist. Yeah. I didn't pursue it as As, much as I should or is diligently I should. I should show you my pride and joy Hera at my recent enjoyed. Great Al Jaffee mad magazine cartoonist turn. Turn Ninety nine and retired. He decided it was time to hang it up. It's I had heard about this and the Great David calls out if you are familiar with his caricatures entertainment weekly and things like these Bistecca can covarrubias like. Just wonderful characters lives in Rochester New York. Anyway, he had done one of Al Jaffee maybe on his last birthday or something like that, and I and I said, why don't you turn that into a mad fold in you know so it works. Allen for them. He said on idea I haven't got time forget if you want to do it go ahead. I'll maybe I'll try and do it. So I did I took David's caricatured and I made it into a mad old in, and then when I saw recently the attorney ninety nine, I got his address from somebody in New York and. So I made of the drawing, I had to send him a fan ladder just said, i. was such a big Fan of his thing. I wanted to send this to and I didn't expect to hear anything or whatever and a few weeks. Later I got a letter a package from him and. He had a there was a type letter that said, thank you and you know and got hand my wall. Thank you so much for taking the time to do this and here please accept on my behalf. This is an. Issue of mad magazine like all Al Jaffee issue a recent thing that they published and his his his motor skills are not what they once were, but he did manage to sign this for me. So there's Great. All Yeah. So I really was because I didn't I didn't know that I ever hear from I forget to include an email right? Then he I don't know if he does email or not. But anyway, he still has I think his wife died a year or two ago but. He still trying apartment. In downtown Manhattan Opera side sort of. Are. You in La. I am in this remote part of La Kalac in Yada. Howard grease grow on a very hard green and don on of a an animation ghetto here because. I. The to you know Valencia was another animation de door talked a lot of animators settled around the school there. And then here you know of course Franken Ali, Eric, Larsen, all lived in lacking Yada and. Cart Walker lived up here to and So yes, I decided to join that parade about we moved here in ninety two I. Used to live in Glendale near the Alex Theatre in Glendale. When we recording the La- Mermaid we were doing it at Radford when there was a Radford according states that. was part of MGM's lot there in in studio city. And we would walk around that last time in between recording sessions and we walked out with Howard Ron and Howard worst destroying the neighborhood and. Saying this is where I would like to live. If I really moved here, I like studio said like the vibe it's not too much not to this or that. So he was a fan of studio city he never did. Get like a when he he? Can't mermaid. He was here like three weeks during the early part of Mermaid. He came out and spent like three weeks here, and then a week back to New York, three weeks exterior in the week back there until there's a certain point where he just said I, don't want to do that anymore and we thought it was because he was fed up with us and or with Jeffries interference and all that news. Candidates I'm I'll come out occasionally, but I'm not GONNA be on that schedule anymore we didn't learn until literally after the movie was no that was one how against diagnosis and so air travel is not recommended for him. So he really cut back on travel wherever you didn't tell us that. So we went through all mermaid not knowing that he was sick not knowing these L. and it wasn't until we were GONNA do Aladdin that when we started resurrected his version of it in some ways than we spoke with him on the phone, we're GONNA come back and visit him in New York and he said, I got to tell you. He said, I've been I've been ill and I was shocked. You know I was like will Powell. Pretty up. So he said talked to Nancy my friend Nance, you're talking to Nancy language, but Nancy is a good person to talk to Nancy parent who was his Assistant is really his friend She's from New York originally New Jersey and she she met Howard I think in Indiana University when they were doing graduate school their theater and so he brought her out to become his personal assistant and So Howard said, she'll give you the detail sort of so we. Had Lunch with Nancy and she tells about our Steig noses novelist. And an even when I went Howard told me that originally I said, well, there's they're working on journalists right and he was very jaded sanguine about it and just sort of over the phone kind of nodded his head like that. Well, we'll see all. That can't wasn't. He was just very sober stoic straight ahead. You know let's do the job and. Over the best and I think he did we. So we did visit him a few times after that in New York. We flew back to work on Aladdin with he was starting to really feel the effects of it and all that and it was A. Shocker for us because we. Drove up to his place. The House. Was Living there in upstate New York and you know we saw him. I through the window and looked like a bit of a ghost of himself already lost a lot of weight and it was just sort of and we knew that we might see something that we and I think it originally, he didn't want us to talk producer donahue his traveling with us as Ron, Ryan donors and But it was obvious maybe who knew him? Down never met him before that he you know he's very skinny and but hollow by that point. So this was trying to think before it relative to when he died in March ninety one and this was sort of in the fall of nineteen ninety. So this is like six months before that. And he was dependent debilitated but still it was still writing for us then and we met with them. is a very crazy meaning that type too because we walked in I believe it was that ten to tackling I'm account which the tax was. He walked up to seems bleeding he would his balance had gotten a little bad. You know and so it drifting fallen in his own living room gashed his arm unlike a glass of coffee table. I did this thing on and he was trying to mop up the blood and everything but. But it was just because his you know his legs were skinnier and he just his balanced starting to go a little bit gradually. He now we as we went on with the land, we spoke to him on the phone. We didn't really go back and see him. In this period of his big decline which still you know the these folks were doing You are already working on the little. Mermaid. Before Howard came on board by right. That's right. He A- He. They showed him a list of properties and development when they were trying to woo him I think David Geffen had really been his sort of mentor. Hollywood. Mentor and you know he produced the little shop of horrors show Broadway show and. He was one of the resigned fuses Saugus but. I think he'd really talked him up to Jeffrey like this is a guy you should be in business with I. Think Jeffrey saw the shown that. Yeah. Yeah. So they were pursuing Howard independent us in an independent. All that Ron had pitched. It was Ron's idea. Do the Little Mermaid hit we? Jeffrey microbrewery over the idea of Gong shows from there. They would. They literally would have you know artists and. Writers and directors around a table stable have a big group meeting at people would pitch ideas and other might hold up a drawing to San idea and have written up little treatments and that sort of thing. So the very first one we did was in January of Nineteen ninety-five was. Yeah. End Up. One of the ideas that Ron pitched was the little mermaid had gone to a bookstore and found the store in the paperback Shack North Hollywood maybe no you're used and anyway. So he wrote a little to pace treatment that he had pitched that an initially got Kong. You know they didn't WanNa. Do it because it was too close to splash. They said, they were claiming sequel on splash. At. Jefferson. That we're doing slash. Forget next on. A but fortunately, Veron that he was disappointed but they did go away and they registered later and Michael had nothing if not acknowledged that Disney did fairy tales that was part of their thing. So give Disney fairy tale intrigue Mike Wallace more than Jeffrey I would say instead yeah we should do something with this. So Jeffrey right in Colorado back like the next day or two and Said? No. We actually like this we're GONNA put into development. So it was put into development and I wasn't at that point actually end So it worked out for a while kind of under Roy Disney's aegis a little bit and they did some drinks. There's some little some early exploratory treatments written up and and then it was but basically when they're willing hard basically Peter Schneider mice. and. Charge the animation came to us one day and said, you know Howard and this was after I was on it though I joined Ron Ron actually came to me and said, do you WanNa work? Do you want to write a script on this with me? Are they got it originally had hired or paid or we're going to pay him. The live action writer Michael Christopher who did witches of Eastwick and things like that. He was write Little Mermaid. We did some meetings with them. At that point I was serving the movie to work out a bit but not necessarily right the script and but he never really got going in I. Think he knew his vision rushing would be really dark ceron was getting frustrated. Why don't we go to Peter Schneider and pitch us as writing I mean we're not getting paid anything anyway and then and it would be no big deal for them. So he did he wanted into Peterson Laci, let us take a crack at writing. So Peter had nothing to lose pretty much. You said, okay you guys write it. So we did write this. We wrote a treatment, a couple of treatments and we Eventually wrote a script and they loved the script and get going. But so in the days when we first worked with Howard I think there was only a treatment or treatment had been done on it and there was like a production meeting I remember where Peterson. Howard Ashman launched work a little mermaid, we show him with. And he's GonNa work on the. So I want you guys to go back to New York and meet up with Howard and he's got some great ideas on you must make the crab arrest. Afraid. You know. Or like Whoa we say. As in Iran initial treatment he had written a a clarence was the name of the grab and he was up stuffy. British. I is a major Domo and so of course, in our cliche way when we heard this we were sort of thinking you know well, he's GonNa be Jamaican. By Jamaicans Account laid back in our churches can high strong and. Fuss budget do those things fit together and then Howard and that's what we talked to Howard on the phone before we ever met him. So we did a phone call with him and he had two things to say he explained that idea a little bit odd to us I can't resigned that phone call when we met him but I'm phone call I know definitely said. You guys think in. This is This is Denmark set in Denmark and everything. We said not really it serve a fairy tale of I've Dion using Jamaican Phillips Oh music because I think it's a way of. Making the Music Kemper market temporary and I think in the seaside Motif in his mind and we said, no, we have no. That idea and it's Loosen a fairy tale world that it could accommodate that. So yeah. Go for it and then in terms of crab. We think of this guy sort of a fuss by she said, well, while China picturing Picture Geoffrey, holder in the UNCALL- of commercials and. We he's glad I had come everyone. Yes. I he'd be on the islands we are so great. And so then we saw he can be grand expansive. He doesn't have to be a laid back and gone just working ninety two. Over. And make it's coming all size shapes but. Anyway we started got a mental picture and this was before we were in the script. So so there are a few things at Howard said in our initial meetings with them, which were before we discussed after we'd rather treatment for the scoop that then affected the way we wrote the script. So that was certainly a huge one and we sit. Yes I'll when I wrote dialogue for it and as we went to write the script that summer after having met with him. Picture Geoffrey holder in my head and. Jamaican but twice a little bit and so he wrote with that in mind like ice with the witch So when we did go back to with how we met with him in June of eighty six with our treatment and at that meeting in the Helmsley Palace Hotel Yard where we were staying, we're there to promote. Great Mouse detective yet one interview with Joe. Gal. Of Newsday, and that was that was that was the junket that was you had lunch with him and he had a drink as I am. That was that was a press junket. They spare no expense but no one was interested I mean then you would have done respite none anyway. So we met with Joe was we did that and then we were part of our assignment was to meet with our talk about his ideas for the song. So by that point, we turnarounds rounds toothpaste treatments like ten or twelve page treatment and and I don't know if you've talked around if I have you may have heard on this is you Can't. Okay. All right. So so we had sent that ahead Howard and that's where we Madam Housing Pass Hotel among those days how it still smoke. So he was smoking like a fiend in talent, you could still smoke in hotel. and. It was very funny because Howard and Howard wasn't what I pictured at all I seen little shop. I love little shop rounded single shop I never stopped picture of Howard or at that point who's possibly can be working with Marvin hamlet who was working with them on small wasn't Allen Making at that point although he never met Marvin Anyway. So we but we did meet with. Just I don't know it was hearing the name Ashman Howard Ashman I pictured a dark-haired guy thought he had a beard and Moustache and all this me become the New York and he's just a few years older than we are and he's got you know blonde hair and he just looked nothing like my mental image I don't know what I was thinking. But when when he sat down and he brought our treatment had done notes on it as he read ideas for songs but he was looking at our tone. So he I've I've never been to the homily amply palace looking forward to coming here for the senator said. Frankly. I'm disappointed. With no big deal I mean I let. So and worth Carson worried that the idea of traveling for a movie that's part of the Jeffrey and Michael You, know under the old regime that just never would have had. As much as they nickel and dime everything and said faster cheaper. But ever you know the idea of flying across the country to meet with a composer was the Hollywood, he kind of thing, and it was normal for them and so if but for us, it was a novelty in fact I don't know that might have good in the first time. I went to New York an 'cause I didn't really I think it might have been I never gotten it before I'm so Anyway. So Howard had our treatment and he had gone through and we had mentioned I, think the part of your world song. I think we had blocked out in the treatment. You know she's GonNa sing a song grotto about her love for human things in that sort of thing and but I don't think there are too many other signs mentioned. So he sort of went through and step through and said I think there could be on like this or something like that. In some cases he had kinda working titles I don't think the witch's on. Had titled then maybe because he really pulled from our script because then we wound up writing a script before he had written most of the songs but we wrote that after knowing where the songs can go but in our dialogue and I think it was ron's line on the which was talking about stuff m maybe it was my line I can't remember but she talked about the poor unfortunate souls that she helps Howard seized on that line sir his song, and then made that you saw our dialogue in the interstitial parts and all that but really quit, but in terms of ideas that he said at that meeting. He was really excited about the witcher because at that time dynasty was on TV and he saw this whole Mermaid story like dynasty which he loved. And he's like, yeah, and so he really thought of her John Collins like she's like, Joan Collins Dynasty. I heard that guy was funny. I didn't really watch. Damascene only had passing knowledge of, but I, at a sense of the ban, Penis of Joan Collins Monceau and I wrote dialogue. Ursula. I. Then was Sorta Picturing Collins say it. Now Rhyme, of course, he says, that was what I was doing. So there you go. There's the creative impulse but. I think Ron's idea was certainly that she would speak like be Arthur that was be arthur his model, and in fact, when we wrote the script, we did include Arthur in its descriptions. We said, you know she has a B Arthur like basso voice. We thought that would be great that you trade Your Voice Pharaoh. But in real life she talks in a very low registered. It's like be Arthur. But then we went when we went to cast the movie. BEA Arthur's agent was so insulted that we wanted her to play a which she wouldn't even sent her the script she didn't. So I don't know that be Arthur could sing I searched his bag not after maiming things like EPA. But you never got to see it so she was off the table so and we have great stories about how are. You know he he got dishes, Elaine stritch New York, and going out, but it went disastrous you what the? One. That she's a serious contender and then to serve undetectable for Howard, she wanNA change the tempo of the song. That creatures drinking a little bit and she's kind of incorrigible but very funny But just she just certainly didn't want to do the songs way Howard wrote in Howard definitely had a shape for all those songs. He often did the demos or Allendale. of the witches on Howard did the Demo Howard did the demo of Lake Assan. Demo, of under comedy songs, Howard did all of the ballots. Allen did the demo of the very first time we heard part of your world only bet went back to New York a second time December eighty six we went to Howard's apartment. It's only performed it for us without at the piano, but he sang it for us had never heard before and there we were getting this refers are Howard really transformed himself into the Mermaid? Really really sat there and looked up at the ceiling of his apartment. It was like he was looking up into the human world from down below and told conviction told US concerns and And very powerfully delivered the sign then for the most part after that Allen was performing in the different group things that we did. But that performance of ours was pretty. Indelible and it was it was our first hearing the song. You know he started us that's all he had written by that point. This was like I say in December and smile already opened by that point and actually the movie little shop was just opening around. So we had interrupt I think our session with him in his apartment so he could go watch. David Chen or somebody like that was a national review. It wasn't you Linda. I. Think was reviewing. The movie, a little little shop and hardline the review and and I think it was fair review but He was. Yeah. So he was in the middle of smile having open having gotten beaten up by that by the press on now but it was still running. It didn't run along with so off New York were able to see it with Jodi Benson with emory bobby in that production, we enjoyed the play and everything and and when we saw Howard in that first time in June he was. On it and so he was and I think he was having a lot of trouble and yet not huge trouble. So. So. He's a real that was Marvin. Hamlets would do the music with him on the Murray because he was as collaborator than and at some point, I'll we were off writing the script we got Peterson and artisan WANNA work with. Margaret Hamilton where he wants to use it. He wants to know if y'all Kenneth Allen making. Sure K- with Alan. So we never met Marvin with they have a tremendous falling out I. think when smile ran into rough waters. Improving or whatever it was with they had duly writes a lot of contention I think, and so Allen, was back in the picture and So so when we went in December it was Allen Not Marvan played this office and wrote it and everything so. Can you can you sum up? In just a few words, the impact that Howard's arrival on the scene. Made. On the Little Mermaid. We had very Howard had a very powerful at impact on Little Mermaid. Certainly, the songs are the backbone of the winning. The story is one of the backbones movie but. hard with a writer and he was. A director and he was Composer. So he and influenced all those things. When. He came out to Mermaid, he were developing it. He was made a producer but we were worried. Will Howard have too much say almost and so is too nice from the theor. Does he know anything about animation or any news? So Peter Snyder made me a producer that I would have an equal vote with Howard's it'd be outvoted. Rarely thinks where we had some big disagreement but Howard came out and we did maybe developed it in these trailers that were set up outside the Flower Street Studio and as I say how it was every three weeks three weeks of four every month. So he saw the storyboards and he critique. Thanks. So for example, just even something small. So He became a mentor, for us. We had done songs in mice detective and round, and I were fans of musicals but but just even small things on on when under the sea was. I story boarded. boarded amazing job but he was boarding to demo head which had the banff at the beginning by Lebanon, and I about Papa. So he had and we had written in the script and dialogue that Sebastian said where you know he said you know aerial down here. Here's your home and all that stuff we had a little intro. and. So he boarded the intro and then during the campaign Bennett business with crab to be doing while he was dancing around and Howard was like, Nana you want to overlap that dialogue during the Bam you WanNa talk over that Bam and lead it as close as you can when song starts because we want this disguise where you go from spoken seen to. Assam moment because you know there's a convention here at work that audiences nowadays have hard time. Then it's just it's more economical it's better and you're not having that it really you can lay that underneath technique. Her shot gunning you know like a shotgun Tom Kelly used to you know. We talk right door the going GonNa Start An. Sucked. So that's what we did. That's just one of those sort of small things that Howard did. That we didn't really know about and and are changed our audition process. We used to do these Labor editions where they took You know we'd spend an hour with somebody or whatever and house. Nano. You should just spend fifteen minutes with somebody ham come in just to assign go away and you know you could see a lot of people outweigh and so that sorta changed that. was very frustrated because and we didn't really change our system but later it was changed but he was You know twenty years ahead of his time or whatever. The way we used to do pick takes for our characters. We recorded everything in a stage everything was transcribed and then pick takes from the transcription. We sat there and listened to everything over again we rarely picked takes on the stage. Howard very frustrated by that laborious process and he thought you should have a system where you have all these takes organize you know. So you've got here's one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight of the line, that line or that scene or whatever. Because we just heard them as they were recruited and we would do the same scene over and go back and the ritual things. Well what he was really talking about is what we did twenty years later when we had the aditorial system when we could take things that we're in, we were digitized and it really were all stacked up like that and we could do it that way and it was much more efficient. We didn't change that because we searched. Shrugged with high while is the way we do it whatever but. But I how just I mean certainly Ron I. We didn't need a learning in terms of its stories that sock should advance story but Howard you. Emphasize that that's something we fell to that assange should not stop the movie. One of the things at Howard said was. charged. With a choice of the approaches song. One of his things he did on stage. Even I think he felt. Never go slow tempo when you can go tempo. Choice of Assam he felt like and that Peter was that times we're hundred gives Peter Schneider and every thing is to it's slap. So he wanted everything. And sometimes to its detriment, you know songs he sped up to a point where it's like, no, it doesn't work anymore. Let's go back and Allen had to fight for that too. But I would say Howard had a huge impact on the way it certainly the music related but he had story some and even like on the song part of your world his. He thought it was important that the first version she's saying that I think are song might have been about. It was a little bit about human world chancing the princess. You didn't talk about the press, but he thought it was important that she sing before she met the prince because her wish at the beginning is to be a human he said. In his her his idea was some ways she was like a crippled girl. You know that she couldn't walk and that she wanted to walk I mean he was China clay on that idea almost as well. Together I did the Howard really pushed that we had in our treatment, but he would have herod was the idea of. The Teenage rebellion I mean we had that, but he pushed it more the father that won't let go the father daughters came. was sort of paramount in Howard's mind. So so anyway. So part of your world became I it was the general issue being huge. The it became. In her reprieve he's want she seeing the prince then she says. I it's I want to be part of that world that is part of your world in the in the reprieve because now the prince is the personification of that world. So she still wants to be Hyun. But all her hopes of Kinda got localized into have. He's also a gateway into that world. So Howard. He was he was you know just you he had a huge impact not everybody saw Howard I mean all the story people does he look at all the story and and some the writers and the directors and Donna and people like that worked with Howard the rest he he did you've seen that much time lecture I. Think he did that Donald Collusion Waking Sleeping Giddy. He did share his process with people that way ACTA, yeah his impact was was huge and he's never been replaced I mean every. You know he was unique and there've been wonderful composers since then but Howard. Howard was really the driver of a lot of things and and we liked his ideas fighting a Howard being. And I still don't know this day what he was at my but after we'd had that meeting with the Maury pitched all the ideas to us in New York. The next day we met with him for line two little restaurant. Still Remember your trump sandwich on dark rye and And that strength on a sandwich who I'm Chicago Guy couldn't imagine such but So But he said, you know you guys don't need me. You guys are doing fine. You don't need it all again. I know if that was a ploy passive aggressive, they know. But that is what we said said, no, we we like your ideas not. So he was really trying to beg off and say you guys are nice guys good guys near talented writers and you don't really need me you know jumping in and we know we love these ideas and so we said, no, we watch yard and so he's Now. Again, Howard Being Machiavelli in the Times I don't know whether it all that was a way our enemies even just his way just sussing out how much did we want him or whatever but we generally, we liked his ideas and you know during the creative process there were few here and there where he had an idea where we had a different take on it and then and sometimes I offered suggestions I thought had been hard to said No. No it's like that wreck the sun and he was right. So I'm talking out a few times. We talked things we talked him into on the on when he's running result part of your world he wrote it with all this beautiful imagery of the staff in her grotto is fine China and leather dotted identity done all his books. He said, the problem is Howard. She's got an informed about all the stuff by scuttle this idiot seagull who doesn't know at any of these things are saying okay. So he went back and rewrote the lyrics and that's one thing mobs and. Who's Watson all that? Yet. So he took. What could be a limitation and made an asset out of it? So he changed. Changed in part of your world reprise when he wrote that originally he wrote it and it was a very down thing that we're it was very sad and it was very anderson s because she's on that rock looking at that that the Prince Walking and she sang I'll never be part of that world and she's very with all that we said we said, well, no, she such an optimistic enthusiastic person. She's GonNa be energized by this and really. Go all in whether never and hearts said. He recast lyric too big as positive statement in this anthrax thing that it was a little bit more You know wistful and tragic almost in the in his first person he made it more this thing. So he did if he thought from a starting point of view that was the legitimacy to note, he would do those notes. But if they took you off the story if they were arbitrary capricious, he just shut those down fascinating. No No, it's just that would be stupid. You know. I mean. He was very very caustic with Alan, Iverson. He. Something Allen. He didn't. He tell us you know you got worker Alan is late is as lazy as a slug. Outed and I think he without. McClintock count. And you could be a handful Howard. Saint, and he wasn't Say Francis of Assisi. A human being is a human being and he's For Disney was. And he and he ideas like for us. Even from again from production point of view where he he said, you should have other people casting really these people are good enough for you, and so we wanted getting other people casting and even our assistant who are also his assistant. Who is a long time Disney secretary and you know it had worked for older people live before us. Young punks were just working for us which he wasn't too happy about now. It's like she should be doing all kinds of stuff you. She's doing this and this and this and this, and we we are to mealy mouth to say. Could you get US lunch because we're working through life? We would never do that but I'm on this goes with the territory you should do that. So yeah but Howard was yeah, he was amazing. Then a few words and good luck with the editing you can pull to. His Every other word. Yourself all right what was your favorite thing about Howard drove you crazy and what do you hope people take away from the? Well I mean I my favorite thing was. His combination I think in some ways of Comedy he was so funny. You know in his lyrics in his writing and he was but he had. Tremendous. Hardy. Really sincerely believes in these characters and so he could write. Was Full of emotion you passion just as well as he could write a song full of comedy I admired in I like that and I, just I thought that was fantastic. I liked just his cleverness I mean his all that was wonderful. It turns the things that would drive me crazy. I think because he was hard to talk into ideas a little tricky. Also those things it didn't really drive me crazy but expressed the sentiment that I would say we didn't agree with. But. It came from his days in the theater or he basically said, he said something and I don't remember the exact quote but he said. Something like any good work of our lasting work of art has come from one point of view sort of. So he was very leery of a committee system doing anything that. Are Can't really good art doesn't come out of there in. Our. Disney was it is this collaborative process? Certainly we thought like. Editors, but we encouraged a lot of input. We took a lot of Info. We still make vote on things I. could we said Jeffrey over US and we had to sell him an I- ideas but we were I would say in our own way perhaps more collaborative than Howard was in charge of you know I, think he felt that I think he said something like. I'll go art comes out of dictatorships or something like that. And we were like, well, not necessarily he didn't. He didn't enforce that necessarily, but he was very leery of it. So if an idea came from, you know somebody on the staff I think he would. Sometimes like you know the that's you don't have to listen to people. But. But basically, the things we liked about hard outnumbered the other ones. Now, what was your last question you said? People take away from the film from lumers. Our. Little Mermaid is one of the greatest movies. Our. Yes. Well, I. Don Hans Baby Really. But I think that to get more full complete picture of Howard including his failures as successes are his his. His our his. Personal is personal life and a sense of was people for the music. They don't really know him I mean it's Too. Early, you know he died too early and I think he would have written a bunch more things that would be in the lexicon or whatever I mean. It would be just as well received and. So I just I really through I was Happy Happy Don Hahn decided to do this documentary and that he dug into his, you know his family and his roots in you know in Baltimore and and talk to his sister, and you know all those formative. Thanks for Howard and I just hope Howard comes alive to people in a way that who loved the science negative sense can person and Share in the tragedy of our. All, that talent was still. So soon, I think you may get a more complete version of his vitality and his. New. I. Wish there were more. take things with Howard where he's as you know not just for AP K thing where it's all politics but you know the way he'd been meeting or that's. Great if those things existed but. But. This is still a wonderful gateway into who he was and the accomplishments made and it's I'm so happy that Don his. Son will write a book at some point. Leonard. Get on it. You know bio of Howard and. I'm really happy for. Yeah. It's wonderful. Yeah. This is Don Hunt. Why did you want to make this about Howard Action Down Felt it was an untold story. You know I I think his sister had tried to. Do. A book she had her blog that she kept up I have thought about it just briefly, we may waking sleeping beauty ten years ago because there's that Howard component of it but that became a movie about palace intrigue and Executives. And so I still felt like it hadn't been told in that. It was It was a really important story for not only a Howard personally but also for. Disney culture the culture of the American Broadway musical an a missing piece. You know we know about everybody from Bernstein to when memoranda, but we didn't really know about him So that's why I jumped in. and. You did. You really did a beautiful job. You had all of us just crying and. And it something where? I feel. So as we've done these interviews, I've asked everyone what what they hope the takeaway will be in each one says that they hope people get to know Howard the person. Yeah. I really felt that I felt. Deep felt it to I. Felt A. Just a personal connection to to live a word but I felt as if I had. We. Hand an acquaintance with him yeah. Good. I. Mean I. I had I was on the board of PBS out here for a while. So I rented Ken Burns a couple of times, and he always talked about He loves documentaries because he can bring people back to lives. He can bring Lincoln back to life for a moment. And you can spend time with them and that really resonated with me and I thought God if I can. If I can stay out of the way and just ring Howard back to life at have you spent ninety minutes with him? That in itself is worth it and so I just tried to collect as much audio and and have Howard tells his own story as good and then where I didn't have Howard telling a story. I really limited it to his most intimate collaborators and family. Because I felt like we don't. We don't need people looking back at that era I wanted people that sat at the table with him and people that had to work with them or struggle with him or build a house with him or whatever. So In. So that's why I didn't use talking heads and and really kept it to that kind of archival set in time nineteen, eighty s kind of storytelling I thought that would bring him back to life for ninety minutes an and it would not only be biography but it also be instructive like I really wanted to include saying Said told you about this process and you know so you could hear him arguing with Martin Amish naked hear him you know working out with Alan is that was really interesting to be in those rooms so that that's the main reason I approached that way as to let you sit with our for ninety minutes. It's also a reminder for some and an introduction for others. To the. To the terrible. Terrible I guess the epidemic crisis it was the age age was for those of us who had had friends who suffered and died. In Eighty specially drifting into the nineties. Also, I had had good friends who just mysteriously. Went Away. And we didn't. We didn't know why there wasn't a name for it. There wasn't a caw and you both talk about it in the same way when we've had this conversation, you both say that it was terrifying because they just disappeared and it was everywhere and and that's what being able to say today to bill him being you including. Him At the Oscars saying what he said at the Academy Awards that is so big. And we all know you don't know your history you're doomed to repeat it. You're and It was really. I. I hope very deeply that people understand if they didn't. What that time a bit of that time was like for you all. Up. He'll say that the Academy Awards it, it was such a you talked to people from the Lgbtq community and they just said that was validating moment for them. I'll have someone on the stage of the biggest days in the world. Talk about his partner in that loss and So it was a time that was bigger than the Oscars in a funny way and I really want to say that and I really want. I it's not about the AIDS. It's not a harvey milk story, but it's still very much about that because that's a in the end what affected Howard and probably affected his work. and. There's a sucker punch and the sucker punch is another thing that we didn't know is that he kept this a secret. which is I don't want to give away too much of what the film is and what what it spends time on. But I don't think it's a it's a spoiler to say that he he was suffering mightily. In silence you might said because even some his closest collaborators have no idea how sick he wants and yet he continued to work and work productively and work their brilliantly that footage that footage during the. Beauty and the beast recording. Again crying it's one of the most I. Really Want you to do a soundtrack Omega I. Even even you know all the reportings you include of of Howard singing. So beautiful. So Stachel I need. It tells you again whom he is. So in that, he was not a not just lyricist your. There's plenty of great lyricists out there was such a drama test and a director and an actor and a singer. and. What the how I remember really drove the bus when it came to. Alan. Alan was good for him. Because is amazing gift of Melody of course, but he elegance serve up any pastiche you asked for so you would just say. Know Give Me Carribean give me a French provincial me you know Tin Pan Alley or whatever announce deliver it. and was the perfect foil for for Howard at the time but yeah, Howard was Man is one of a kind of affected. He hit his disease we didn't know we were naive. ALLEN DIDN'T KNOW You, and then he starts building this house in upstate New York, and then when when I interviewed bill and he said it's one of the regrets I have is that we built this house in moved out of the city just thought your magic just the psychological stress. Of AIDS being a death sentence. Let's move out of the city are doing the right thing the stress of building a house while he's writing three movies at the same time, I can't I just can't imagine and and and you know. When when you just lay it out there in that timeline. You just see he was just putting every bit of energy he had into those movies. And I mean The idea that one person. Could have that that kind of effect. On on everything even. To this day. You know you really this is a person who did not approach. He didn't approach animation and these animated musicals like they were for kids and I think that what we've learned over the years and Disney does this so well but just in general is that it's not just for kids it's meant to it's meant to be great on its own. And a factor. Different people. So the lyrics are complex you they're not little kid you know and then, and then if you're seeking to John, he's talking about at the same time though when you have areo aerial learns from scuttle so she wouldn't be singing is sophisticated way is just the whole thing is mind blowing and I can't get over how much how much he he accomplished and you really don you've done such a beautiful job you rings. At. Don't take credit for things, but it's it's a really beautiful. A appreciate that so much I just knew if I stayed out of the way as much as I could it would be the best way to go at I. Think it is in the end and it's you're right that there was such a statistic ation to the lyrics. You couldn't get a date night audience at a Disney animated so it wouldn't they would like. Not Be caught dead there, and now all of a sudden they're seeing Robin Williams or seeing. Broadway musical kind of comes back the enemy. Pat, Carroll. Earl. Woman. Brilliant but you mean, even she is mimicking Howard's delivery in house. Demo. GotTa. Course. He provided a template. Word that is still. Valid and still being a used you know. Because, it's so solid. And revitalize the Broadway tradition. Both. In films and on Broadway where these same films ended up as stage music and listening to other people who are still shaping that right now about how he's the one who said, the song needs to take you somewhere you yet from here to here. Yeah we were clearly we were all just knocked out and unusual theater nerd that alone for me this is everything but then also being Prime Howard age where little shop is one of my favorite things ever. But for one person for the beauty and the beast and Aladdin and Little Mermaid three of the longest lasting. And we I mean we we had a great studio. We had like muster and clements and brain wise until. We Katzenberg Roy. Disney. So the all the elements were there but I always say Howard was like the matching the gas tank he was like the. Not sure. All would have come down to the same way. Had Howard now showed up. Because we have the talent, we have the CAL. Arts Generation, my generation. PASSIONATE WE WANNA, make films better than Disney. And you know we didn't make musicals. We made movies that had songs in them. They want musicals. Our comes in and says, no, no musicals this you put the highest points of story in the songs we went really and and so that kind of education at the right place at the right time was so inspiring. Hearing that from talking to John, and different people That's. To have all of you feel the same way. You know. With the quoted from Roy Disney that said he was like Walt Disney to us and I just thought well, there's a testimony. Exactly. That's no it's. It's an ad to tell you. So my husband, my husband came home and I was about halfway through the film and walked in and. He sat down with me and was sort of playing on his own, and then I saw him begin to listen and watch and the conversation about know the opening of beauty and the beast any kind of up and he went oh, I mean that's one of the best songs that's I mean that's one of the that's one of my favorites I love that who doesn't love that opening and then he went back to semi kept looking up and it drew him in. And this is someone who he he likes. Disney he likes. You know he likes these doesn't have a connection in the same way that some of us do but could watch this and be completely engaged and then started asking me questions about what happened earlier and it just I as I say I'm so excited for people to continue discovering this in the way that they have with waking sleeping beauty. Yup. That's a movie that people keep going all. Have you seen it? Yeah. Nunu say ten years I can't believe it's ten years ago. Does it. It really connects people back to Waking Sleeping Beauty i. I don't know why I the self appointed make your these stories except I. I knew with Howard especially that I knew were the were the stories were a new delivery Congress new assistant who billy for thirty years I just felt like I know all these components and I, know where to find everything. And if I can just put it all together and if I crash and burn great I'll go hire a director or something but I just felt like I lived through and if I can I'm going to try to assemble all this in a way that lets Howard shine through. So it was it was a leap of faith but I I'm so gratified that it worked out and it's like you said people are discovering it but my inbox is full of things every day from people who said I had no idea you know nobody's like really that he had aids. Oil, we did smile when I was in high school. Who did we did a production of smile? You know it's it's crazy. It's crazy. So I three questions that asks everybody what was your favorite thing about him? What drove you crazy and what do you hope people take away from this documentary? On my favorite thing was always his. Obviously, the days of the music shown up, you know again you he was so humble about that and it's kind of afraid of that humiliation that we wouldn't like it. But I swear when those tapes arrive in the shot up visit shot in the movie of the set tape and that's the real cassette tape that I got from Howard that arrived that day. Those were amazing days in the best days when he flew out to Los Angeles and played the song. Live. because he was afraid that nobody would like them. So those were absolutely amazing and. Then you know in just the the date his sense of humor was so great to, and you see that in antlers in all my decorating or. He would always things like screw courage to the sticking place, and then we would have had to go home at night time ago. What the hell was that it was the bath or something we all go looking our books and. To be educated, by Howard, on top of it also. And drove me nuts. persistent almost to a fault of his point of view. So you had to show up with your a game. He was like a trial attorney presenting his facts that were so compelling, and so articulate and learned that you should cell that her show with opposing facts if you were going to convince him and he was collaborative, he could he very collaborative big-hearted all that stuff. But man was he learned and did he know every reference he? So he could say well, Gaston is clearly based on meals fluorosis from funny thing happened on the way to the forum. Against we all run home at night and trying to look up who else meals, stories and so It drove you crazy because you're working with somebody who's not only gifted naturally but has also put in his ten thousand hours to learn the craft. And what do you want people to come away with? Man I. Suppose A, it's it's a he's a complicated character. Probably, one of the warmest biggest hearted guys I you know I, I never ran into his dark side thankfully. And the persistence of. He's one of my creative heroes I. think if you walk away thinking, this guy is a creative hero like Michael. Jordan's a sports hero or like somebody's war hero. We don't have enough role models or people in our culture. We can point to and say, this is somebody in the arts. That is accurate. Know. That's why I love telling these stories about Thomas longer whoever? To. So much in their lives that has nothing to do with their art form and push back against. So much of in this case society and politics and this stuff. While he's trying to exercise his art form and that's hero to me. Well the definition I agree definition. This is page O'Hara. You remember the day you met our. I do and it was at the first audition for beauty the beast and I admired him I was very nervous to audition with him and with Allen because you know we as a Broadway singer and actress, we have such a high pedestal but I just. He was so loving. Even from the first audition and I didn't know why he was being so good demand it'll I found out after I got the role. He was a huge fan of my showboat recording with a retailer Shutt- with. And he's a huge drunk Irfan and he'd see me all the Carnegie Hall revivals. I'd done my. Inner shows like Oh. Boy No Lady Lady Sitting Pretty I did all those he had gone to those because he he loved Jerome Kern. So we shared a passion for Kern and Hammerstein and as soon as I got hired but I realized that He loved the fact that I love those those writers and We talked a lot about it. He knew things I most people don't know the turn of the century Princess Theatre shows and. Got To do oh, boy, he said Oh Art. Yeah it would it be interesting as a matter of fact, his. Knowledge is off the charts. I'm obviously that made you kindred spirit. Yes? Yes. Absolutely. Also, I would, I would reckon that your talent little. Well, thank you and thank you, Leonard for all the years of the wonderful work you've done I've been a fan of yours, your whole career I just had to tell you that. You can easily say, Ditto. I just said to don the. Footage of the orchestra. Playing, the beauty and the be score i. I. I can't again it renders me featureless lists was so uniform and deceive that I'm a sucker for an orchestra anyway my parents and my parents raised me right when when we went to see a show, you walk down to the pit you know and my God was. Pointed out in show me everybody and so seeing that those rooms anytime I watched those even just the photos Michael G Aquino is so good about documenting when he works I see the pictures in my heart. My heart beats it's you know but no. Jerry. Orbach and Angela Lansbury. To you. Okay. And you know the story with Angela. You know when she came into record beauty, the be she been up all night in her plane it had gotten. Not Gum in the she had to stay overnight and didn't have any sleep at all and she comes in and done Hansson Ngelo we can do this tomorrow. Go when we get some sleep said, Noah, I'll be okay and she gets a bear everybody's there and. A huge course of Broadway stores in the chorus she gets behind the MIC and she sings viewed in the base is not a dry their in house and she didn't want take. Unbelievable it was like watching her performance like having a masterclass it is. You Sex bar are almost impossibly off. She. Does she really does I also love the fact that you know when we've been at twenty three in your there, I see these people lining up. And it you know I get it I completely understand but there's something. So special about the here name they hear your voice and it is instantly Transported there there somewhere else in that such a you know you're apart of a very elite group. Attached, to memories in childhood. In visit and I we do reducing kamikazes not this year because what's going? On but when we do the COMECON to be the Brits together usually it's me jody or are Linda Larkin are regarded. We're all kind of in one little area and these bigger star see are lines around the block Nigo what is this process they? What is the tower is princess thing I mean I'll give it you know but we keep tissue on our tables because I would save thirty percent of the people who love burst into tears yet. Childhood something they share with their parents. Ernst and now the demographics are there are no demographic every age now? Really rewarding. It's wonderful. Very strong connection yes. Yes. Bombs. Young people. Don't forget. They, you know they held them close to their heart, but that's also what's special about you and jody especially. Your you know what you mean. and. So I mean I seen Jodi lesser. I've seen that woman just swarmed. On many an occasion, but she understands that everyone's going. True. For me, my childhood was Julian. Powers of the Ansari. Yeah. So when I met Julia, I couldn't speak. Gory I mean I'm actually went on for her in the KI. Unite Hollywood bowl. She took sick and I learned on my three days. Thanked me for that and we just started she's in which you hang out with me for the next couple of days were disneyworld. So my husband, Michael I got to go to dinner with her and hang out with her. It was just like a dream come true. You know it's just being able to get to know Angela who idolized since I was a little. Now the very lucky interviewed for the show and got to go to her house and Oh out when she opened the door I kid you not I couldn't move. Just. Couldn't couldn't move. And it's her they say it's so special and that's why we're so pleased that that don has made his beautiful beautiful film. Has Yet to know. I thought that that part of your world was already one of my favorite songs. Yes and then you hear Howard Sing it. You you understand you find out all this facts. It's such a rich backstory. It's like it's a new saw. It's an yes again and and your introductory saw. In beauty and the beast is so it's just so right. It just it sets up not only the story and the character. but way of storytelling. which is our did and and the I know. Neither you nor he ever. Intended firs public to see that footage of him coaching you. At the Michael. Yes but it's it's so. Revealing in a in a in a positive way. Way. And you wanted you wanted to make it right? You wanted the way he wanted it. You know he had a vision and you weren't to give that to him absolutely did and I'm I'm a perfectionist like he is and I actually there's some things I wanted to go back and read you that he was happy with but I think he'd like that about me that we're similar in that way. But you don't think about Howard is just that his his passion for what he believed in what he saw his vision was so sometimes intimidating but also really inspiring and if the part of. Than that decided I'm GonNa go with the inspiring part and I'm GonNa go along for this ride and I'm GonNA learn a lot from this man and have a great time in the meantime, and that's if you go along with Howard on his journey. It's one of the most rewarding moments of your lifetime because you're in the presence and learning from a true genius. Is. Still. Greatly missed as you know. I was in New York, and the mid seventies when I right out of high school. Like, from the late seventies through the eighties, almost my husband and I were going to a funeral every week you yeah. I I was there then to. The same. My heart while watching this and you being in the Music Cedar Community? Of course it's the next I can't even. I. Can't even imagine I really can't. But there to finding the people that that they did for these different voices, you were actors you were smears in you're actors and there too I think is hard of why the music lives the way it does is that it was thought through This different but. I'll never forget listening to them talk about. Donna Murphy Murphy. Everest forget listening. So Donna Murphy came in and said, she asked a million questions and they didn't understand why. In questions and the next day she comes into record and it's this fully formed character of course. Incredible. Very. Well, the only time I ever stood by for an actress on Broadway was forgotten Murphy and Edwin Drood. Now I would gladly stood by for her. And actually I got to go on and play the other part with her night ended up doing a in the national tour. But how is just watching her every night and being you know her stand-by learn awesome Donna. She's an amazing actress Myriam eligible. In credit truly one of the one of the greatest. Lives in performance to this day. But it it makes me think about that. When I watch you guys in watching that footage and all of the care that's going into every single note and bend and pause It's it's real. It's a stage. You're there and you're you're bringing something to life in a serious way. It's not. You know it's not a Kiddie game it's it's use it. Was Astounding to is that they did not find beast for while I was hired for a whole month before the found Benson. Just. Now. Remember. I was so upset it was one of the publication said all mentioned all of us, the Broadway people but then they said, but Robby Benson really how is that going to work and I was like damn? He busted is freed grade and he's also a Broadway performer was on Broadway. When he was a child for Pete's sake you know. But truly the whole piece came together when rob became aboard, you know my character certainly, you know I I've found my carriage by working with Robbie. Course Howard I kiddingly say bell is not just me. It's Howard. Ashman is Linda Woolverton. animators you know between more candidate James Bax are there so many of its corporate bell the dumb. Robby Robin is really key to the film. Is a great actor. So the repressions asking everybody what was your favorite thing about Howard? What drove you crazy and? People take away from the film. Favorites thing about Howard West is is incredible passion for his work. And Passion for the project and the fact that He. He did not bend in terms of what he knew was right. But when there was one point that he was wrong and that goes back to you Leonard the opening number. He did he thought it was too long and Alan make and said, I'm GonNa fight you on this. My Buddy. You know this is right. They're going to accept it and seven minutes early. Long story short they heard it. They fell in love with it and how little gay man you get that line. You're right you know. But I the I just loved his passion and passion. For the passion for life, you know he just you know when you faced with light up when he talked about different composers and lyricists that he been I really love that about him I don't know really anything. I did not like about how I just found his crazy energy just. Incredibly. Ingenious Fun and an inspiring to be around and he made me want to be better. You know my very first day I was so nervous in the studio, and now it's like I don't know what I was doing by voices up real high and loud and he came out to doing we want your voice, your your bell you are now. And you always will be. The only will ever done where I had to really open up myself and be page. You know I, it was much easier to do it away or do these other parts pattern Elliott go vote. But he just made me. I think he just Beijing belief in yourself. You know. Bleeding. You can do things that you even you didn't know you could do. That I don't think there's anything annoyed about him and I can say is each has gone rollout. Okay. And what do you hope people take away from watching the soccer? I just hope they. They pass along the knowledge that they're learning from this credible genius and like Howard New Jerome Kern and Oscar Hammerstein's work turn of the century I. Hope. Hundred Years from now people are talking about Howard Ashman and Alan Making and remembering their work in Sangre. I agree I. Think they. Will I think they will. They will do as I say we went in Fans and came out next level. He's a I. Feel I feel like I do so much more about the man is a whole and I thought he was brilliant. But my God, it's it's It's truly mind-blowing. About this in the interviews but. It was very difficult for Allen Howard to convince Disney to do little mermaid because innovation was dead they. Money they didn't were worried about. Howard put his own money into the movies well. They if they does that look at the last thirty years. Is In critical films that may not have happened they don't we. Both of them my dad always talks about that. That when Little Mermaid came out there was no merch. Yes and you know ingested West Jesse. Three and a half four years old and all she wanted was little mermaid number made every. Hardly anything on the market. Faded the enormous success, right? So. True. Now I mean it's crazy. Yeah, we're constantly doing things citing things for Disney merchandise A new generation, every six or seven years this. Your fans you know every six seven years it's fun. It's largely because if you earned all. Leonard Sweet, and you're very kind to give us some time today. We very much appreciate all I very much. Appreciate getting to meet you too until you how much I loved your work on the year over the years Jesse your so call I. WanNa get. Your awesome. Hey you. This is Alan Menken. I so I'm I'm thirty four I am prime war you know for for both of you. And it's such. I will say I do miss your hair. the moment the. In the documentary, I have to tell you it was majestic but. Not on its own that deserved its own Oscar. But the you very welcome with that was You know you're watching someone who truly shaped. Or Childhood and your. Life. I'm sure you meet a lot of people who just break down crying when they need you saying the exact same thing. To a degree yeah, I do yeah and I hear this I hear the same words you wrote the soundtrack to my child. Soundtrack too much. Oh. Wonderful It's it is wonderful. It's unbelievable and a blessing Craig. Crazy wonderful blessed or. Was We're we're very fortunate because we call Richard Sherman. Family. and. I have gotten to watch people come up to him. And of course, they do that and I have to say that Howard reminds me of Richard. Really. Because they're performers. They're passionate. Like this is this is very serious. You know who worse what is. It's because it's A. It's a sacred message it is and You taking people on. A ride and uses has such power to take people. You know on that. That journey, you create a world, you bring them into the world you take takes through the world. You. Deposit them in a place. That is hopefully better brighter more loving and more optimistic. but the most important you want to do is the story that you're using allies and. Some. Yeah. It's a major skill to it. You know. Something like Howard. I say he kicked. The kept the child at him alive into his adulthood and yet. The brilliance of how he Learn to use. musical influences. To deepen historian, tell a story and then. The visceral power of his lyrics. There you forget that their lyrics. The just. A gestalt whether it's a humorous gestalt or angry because dealt or a loving styled it just. Very natural and it your weds itself to the music and creates A. Sort of an inexorable experience at its best. It seems to me and I want your point of view on us, of course, that he. Was So. Definite. In his in his opinions he didn't see them opinions. He saw them as. The way to go. To do. Well Yes and Yes. He did see them as a way to go, but he also be the first one to look at it and go. No that's wrong. And change it. But, yes he. Howard did not sit back and let other people tell him what needs to happen, but he's very open to. The influences I'll be in the room you know. but we working a little shop and we couldn't figure out the end of act. One. because of the movie seemed more throws a bottle and it's a bum. Just. Because Oh, Gal feed him to the plant. Well, that's not to necessarily work on you know a real musical. And we create already created the character of Oran. And I just went you know my dad, my dad was president at the time President of the New York chapter of the American Jesus. Society decided dentists that promote the use of nitrous oxide is safe home. But. You know. How about would be funny if in fact, the dentist. Want to give himself to nitrous oxide rather than Seymour. So he could really enjoy you know inflicting the pain and how we thought that was hilarious. so I have to take responsibility for that but at the time of the. To support. My Dad Mom Kris, they created A. Totally love it but I'm. Yeah he was just the best. He knew the best idea in the room wins. And he's a very practical person. you know people ask how what would how would have thought about? Changes that were made in the movies or I could never predict. What Howard would Reactive. He could be surprising. And, and he could be very pragmatic as you know when we had to change the ending for those of ours for For the for the live action movie. And And he just took the script and made the changes he had. was thrilled about it. But he recognized it had to be done and he did it brilliantly. Have you have you experienced people not knowing that the endings are different. I have my my my first time that I saw little shop on Broadway. Someone was sitting next to me and started whispering to the partner next to them. That's not what happens. That's Out Yes I while I have definitely experienced people who know little shop of horrors through the movie and not. State show. And I explained to the state show is everything movie fine movies fine. But the stage show is this brilliant concede eighty five minutes long I talked about how you take the Samuel. French. Script. And you know you open up that stock amateur scripted where there's capital letters? It's lyrics you can't open to a page without capital letters. The music is that. Integrated. Throughout the entire story is totally driven. By musical concept. and in that respect is one of the most perfect Creations and. And the concept of telling the story through. Do Up rock and roll and through. Phil Spector. Really evokes. A pop music era, which was kind of like apocalyptic in a way and also very bubble gum very like Oh, you know the kids are. Dancing on the beach while godzillas coming out of the. Now it's at brilliant marriage of of you know period and culture and tone. And I I? You know initially there was another style entirely too. So little shop where the for some around did very much more sort of a Corman esque. You know like like the movie scored or or very like. Sort of. Vaudeville most. And and you know it didn't really work, and then how came in one day and said. I got it got to do it like this. What was it like a? Working working on finishing. Projects that he initiated with you. Fill out, and of course, even the stage adaptations of the films. Oh. Yeah. You were. Cast with confusion completing works that he had started with you. Yeah. well first of all at that time. He wasn't the only call. I lost three collaborators pretty much within. A short span. I was him Steve Brown. With whom I had written a musical two musicals what called team if Queen of the galaxy. That was at both were vehicles for divine actually Michael Bennett produced Tina was a team. Down to the basement of eight ninety Broadway and dreamgirls up on seventh floor and we were like you know Michael was developing his to shows. and See was one of the first. That was the beginning of the AIDS crisis. and then Howard then Tom I and. Shackled kicks we never got on. So. I mean in the way we were numb just numb from all what was going on. Emi just buried ourselves into the work. I. With doozy's, for instance, Howard wanted to do newsies. But he just was not physically capable of doing it. and. So I took it on with Jack Feldman. And here I am ready getting ready for the first recording sessions with full orchestra. Out in La. I forget which songs was maybe as carrying the bat I can't remember which one it was but. And that was a I was the bag was they are getting packed. And I and That was the day our died and I had to fly out to La have the recording session. Fly Back? From L. A. to Baltimore for the Funeral Janice bent down there, and then she went back to New York and I had to fly back to. La. and was a sense of. Put One foot front of the other you gotTa do what you gotTa do. And You know and Tim. Rice came aboard on Latin to finish it. might my fear was? Will I ever duplicate that success I had with Howard and then the first one we wrote was a whole new world so it was like ugly it out So, many layers to this. Yes, it's. It's honoring my collaborator and celebrating the work he did and protecting the work that we did together and. Moving on with my life I was young. And feeling responsibility to Disney as well as everybody involved and. And loving the projects and So, I just poured myself into. Every subsequent collaboration just as I did with Howard. taking that's what Howard want me to do. And I have but. Before I had recurring dreams about. Howard. Even. Not just that one where he passed but it was went on for. Twenty years he would be visiting and we'd be talking and You know sometimes it'd be a treatment who was frustrated that he couldn't write no wet. You know what dreams me I don't we all have to analyze the. You know what life is that way but I felt very strongly. In my career as a part of everything I was doing. I had the experience. I don't know about how many years ago. Maybe eight years ago that mid six or eight years ago something like that. I was doing doing a D twenty, three concert at Disneyland. We were there. Oh. When I did Disneyland. Okay. So Marvin had just passed away. And I thought well, this is very fitting and on so many levels. and. I. Put I said I think the songs let me learn it. And I went to. Google lyrics as you do that, he's off to ask anybody for just. Yet and I and I printed at Howard lyric and I put it in front of me at the piano and I sit okay I'm to play the song now. And my eyes hit the words all the details of the story that He. Created. And all the atmosphere that surrounded from the second you look at the lyrics and I broke down. Or. Some I did in front of a Howard Ashman lyric. Says he was gone it was and it was like a reunion was like sitting. With him So. I. Guess The answer is moving with these projects is the way to be closest to him frankly. Never. Felt like a violation. Time I go. What would Howard have done with this? You Know Got God knows what would have been like there was a whole project I did the Howard and I wanted to do was adaptation of. Of Big Street. You know you know the movie Big Street. Damon Runyon Story. It's It was original movie was Lucille Ball and Henry. Yes. Yes. That one Yeah. Very you know sort of the guys and dolls kind of. Community of characters, but a much starker story. which is probably why it appealed to Howard we couldn't get the rights at the time. Dot doing but I said I WANNA do this. and I love the story I love the complexity of it. Still I don't know how many years later decades later I'm still trying to figure out what would Howard of. The complexity in the stylistic references in it at all the. Polling tropes that we grew up with, and that takes us to another time and also you know comment on our time. So any you know everything I do is done. Sort of in that. In that world that Howard and I worked in an created in the criteria that that fuel that is you know deep inside Ottoman. Now. This you know. Looking. At what you created together, there is something. Magical about the fact that they have stayed. So relevant and popular, and you see People Little Mermaid again, this is my time but. I see little girls dressed as Ariel. You know I'm thirty years older than them and they're singing part of your world and I watched people react to Jodi in the same way I watch people react to page and you know it's Something truly spectacular and I I do think that you carry his memory in a beautiful way. God knows you've written a million, a million wonderful songs that again a part of. Any. They existed in the world. All over the world and it's a it's magnificent but watching the documentary. The thing that I think that we took away was just that. He was so special as a person beyond just being this talent and for US getting to speak to his partner, you know you fill out the rest of this man in a way as close as we'll ever get to knowing him. Yeah He. He's Yes Howard was wonderful on so many levels it would also be impossible. In the best possible way but. He? Understood. How to hold that flame. And use it. And and An inservice of that. Be. So. Impatient he could be so. Rural. And, and then he could be the most thoughtful the most you know compassionate person. And I think if US we're. We're conduits in things come through us. And And he was he's the brilliant conduit I knew. Now it's They say it's emotional. A getting to speak to everyone as we have. It's amazing how alive he is. for all of you that he is so present, that's why you're talking about dreams. It doesn't surprise me. This is the person who stayed with you in a big way. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. and. I don't know you know not none of us the what he would have gone on to do I member I. Asked him. Before knew he was sick. Things were just flat thinks show he was doing so many things. So in demand that I thought Howard's GonNa former production company is going to be it's going to produce direct all these things and I said. So yeah when you WanNa, do look look at all the stuff that's you know he said. You know if I had my druthers, I'd like to start a children's theatre group. I was like. GOBSMACKED and maybe he knew he was sick then I don't know. In, in a way, he did because the music appeal so much to all audiences but especially in in a in a way to kids in its inspires them to sing. So in a way that's exactly what it did. His children of all ages I mean the fact is no lowers. Of. Actors He. I think is because that's the yeah. That's the root of what got him wanting to. Be In theater some. I don't know what it is an. But in any case, that's more to illustrate how surprising he was. I don't know what he would have become. And To think wherever his soul he's still going. You know yeah. But what I have done but you know I like to think that when we? Shuffled off this mortal coil where perfectly fine with our spirit moving on. But I think if if anybody was. A little like wanted to stay I. Would have been Howard. said this before I in talking to people about down cell. But One of the things that struck me as. He knew who he was so young so early. He knew why he was put on this earth at six years old. That that drive that spirit and that ambition and determination they were all intact. I. Feel about myself too I think. Those of us who are in touch with. Our? Destiny or our journey. are very, very lucky people. I don't question adjust. It's. Know Kids and anyone. What you want to do every day in your life is what you should be doing. Yeah. It's your calling to you. Know and and the period in my life where. I've you know stories of all benefit by family were dentists all my grandfather my father right up. All dentists. And the period where I thought well, I can to be a dentist I. A peptic ulcer at the age of like ten. and Go, away until I was in college and. Finally abandoned the idea that. I was GONNA. Go Dentistry where the medical profession because it wasn't what I was. Meant for. And you know and also people would say. Well you'RE GONNA go. Into music. You really have to practice all the time and work hard and you're kit. Fact is you know what is your gut? Is GonNa, come through. If. You just support. Do it every day however you know there's no rules about that. At Howard was. You know. Obviously. It's a destiny that he has to have that kind of control and vision. Of course. What's Not Tragic but could be. Tragic. Interesting. The. Really. Only twice and really maybe only once. In his career that he have total control. Little. Shop of horrors. At Disney, he got a huge amount of influence but there was always that a negotiated with others and be the health issue which limited that horse and you just wonder what would been like when you know Alexa Smile. Had you know some of the other collaborated we had to. Contend with. And Yet the. Experience of Howard in total control and I was definitely being his catalysts. I mean I I would you know we have you know very active back and forth but it was a very natural. You know catalytic relationship and he was driving that ship. brilliantly, you know the day came when he said that ballot will tomorrow for the insect eggs of. We know we only have. We only have suddenly seaborn actor. We don't gotta just take it out. And he was right. You know it's it's the God. And hit an amazing. got. An. Amazing Brain. And the reason that we wanted to do. A special episode dedicated to the documentary as because we wanted everyone to hear from you guys and hopefully entice more people who may not even know his name to watch the documentary because I feel that when you see it, you understand just how significant he was too. Damn near everything. And and you do all keep him alive youthfully. While still of course doing your own thing creating and making new music every day it's And I feel that we're very lucky in extreme very proud of dawn for. The though he never takes credit no matter how much I try to pound it into him. You know it's just his way but maybe. We I think. I, think we just stop crying as I. Say it even in thinking about it it brings me to tears, but it's very special and and your openness in it. Talking about those dreams talking about the heartbreak it's it's extremely honest and very talkative you to be willing to share I. Just it's just happens. I was sitting in the studio with don talking for hours and. Yeah Yeah. I remember the experience of. You know what? Howard it just past. You know a few months before we had the premiere of beauty and the beasts near you get to the end and you dedication to Howard is like. An and and I can't I can't play proud of your boy beauty and the beast without you know thinking of him and feeling the moment of creation But of course. You know we go on with our lives. and. It's part of the fabric. Of all of our lives. And you opposite we all want to concentrate on the blessing it is and not the the sadness of the. Story hurts. The blessing is that we all have this music in our lives and that again in watching this I obviously I love part of your world now and has another meaning and hearing him sing it. It's you know it takes it somewhere else and I feel very lucky that we got to know him a little bit through this fill. The film really does capture. At least it seems to us it does capture him. Very much just the work he did but who he was. It's Very. Very, personal film that's May sound redundant but I oh, it's very personal. And you know. And you know and it's In a way to tip of the iceberg because there's So many stories I. Think of Moments Perez Poignant. We're Howard. You could feel how he felt humiliated by what this was doing to him. and so. You know painfully frustrate, but it was also the nature of that time that time was. Worse. A nonstop nightmare of. Of of these kinds of guest house. You and I are just about the same age and so. My wife and ice. Riyadh cly something will trigger more thicker. We think of the people we lost and the you know and the. And the mystery of it I you know the the almost ritual it was like. It was God you look any, you thought about anybody. And you thought that person that person that person assists and it was just. All. Even now I think how did someone so? K. Really Okay and this will kick their with. Okay. Yeah, and of course, it hit a very young demographic. Yeah. Their lives. Changed. The world in the world changes was what happens. Now. Gone Yeah. And make the musical. Listen. I I would like to think that some changes happening for the good because of it I have to think that yeah. Yeah and again as you say, you get up in the morning, you have to put one foot in front of the other because you have no option. If you're rational human be. And and your spiritual human being. I think you look to. Why is this happening and what is what is meant to be better because of this? Out. On his well and I can tell you my my favorite thing actually is a lot of my friends who have kids keep saying that this is the most time they've got to spend with their kids because they've been home. And that he say in terms that we we're we consider ourselves positive. We try to find the good in situations and hearing that from my friends that they're spending time with their kids in ways they never imagined that. You know. That's really valuable. That's the lifetime of memories opposite going to say now will not make it into the telecast but. Frankly the worst pandemic that's happening right now is in the White House. Yeah. Well, but I don't mean that you can politically yeah I mean it. On A. Because of consciousness level. The. The insult of what? Has Been. This this this era is a stunning in its. disgustingness. and. You. Know we look at the? Penn, typical. Will get healed and solved. This dapper will be a tougher one dissolve. Yeah I'm but we book it'll be it'll be what it is And I anyway. I don't want to go there just. No look again it's it's the life that we're all leading. It's very difficult and because you are someone who. You are artistic. You're in touch with emotions and feelings. It's hard to deal with this. You know for any of us who are people that you know this we're easily affected. It's very difficult You know it is and and again, and that is why sometimes you watch something we all had the same thing after washing the doctors who couldn't sleep. I my mom and I says I couldn't go to sleep. And is so many so many feelings. truly you you've answered my my dad is saying, I, asked everybody three questions and what was your favorite thing about Howard what drove you nuts and what do you hope people take away from the documentary and I feel like you told us what you loved and what drove me a little crazy which this is you know artists. What do you hope people take away? I. Hope they take away. An understanding of what's precious inside of all of us. And how? How it needs to be protected and nurtured. and. appreciated. I think that's what Howard would want. And you know. To make the best use of the time that you have regardless of. What it is. It's well sentence. Perfect. You know you're not known your known as the tune Sneh wordsmith. You you. You can do a little bit about. I try. Now. You've left me with one lingering thought though. US, abilities that there might have been a musical dentistry office. and. How wonderful that would have been On this a little late. Now I guess you've gone on the ask I, the art reset success. That never ever ever ever ever going to happen. My my dad when I would have a dental appointment with him. He put the mask on me. Briefly. Got Those I love Dr Socks. We'll have had years but and he and he would say, okay, Alan, are you ready to go on the magic carpet ride Oh, you can't make that on. So Imagine carpet was. You hear the strains. Well, we had out take something from. From, a little job called a little dental music. Gone, you know this only at all. It was about music the music, you hear a dental office. Little dental music strings is strumming flutes, the trilling numbing minds and calming nerves while steps away the beast is drawing us back in the lobby the patients to ignore the fact that riding in the weights right behind the door. And legal cost Alana's Hank Manzini. Gordon Jenkins Randy Anti Shirt low the Mormon Tabernacle. The sounds of pain or muted by thousand living strings OUGHTA. Bike that would be paying WPA T was called in the office. It was a basically very. Lush easy listening. You know back in the fifties early sixties. And it was perfect for you know like sucked sucked. Anyway yeah he's dental office. That was. Very musical that you know a Boogie Woogie you're giving me a takeaway for. Last, not just today but for all time now I, you look it up I think we did It's on one of the little shop The soundtrack or cast albums. Sure. Look old them. I will find it. Very if not get back to me, I'll send a copy. Allan. This is so kind of you. Thank you. Give us the time. and to open yourself up. Which I know is. Is, highly, emotional and Your. Candor and your wonderful words really mean law. Thank you guys. Thank you. Thanks for listening folks and where do people find US Jesse? You are at Leonard Maltin and I am at Jesse Maltin on twitter and INSTAGRAM. You can also find my dad on facebook. You can go to Leonard Maltin DOT COM for movie reviews, round ups, and all kinds of good stuff and we are also unpatriotic where people have chosen to support us and we appreciate that more than words can say ex Patriae dot com slash Maltin on movies CAITRIONA dot com slash Maltin on movies, and we'll see you next time Today's episode of Maltin on movies is brought to you. By Legion m the world's first fan owned entertainment company. If. You love movies as much as we do why not own a piece of them find out more A-, www dot legion m dot com.

Ashman Howard Ashman New York Howard Ron Disney Company Kenneth Allen Sarah Gillespie Alan Menken AIDS Don director Little Mermaid Howard Being Machiavelli Bill Louk writer Al Jaffee David Geffen Multan Peter Schneider US
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1:40:38 hr | Last month

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"It's hard to imagine Disney without its iconic animated musicals but the eighties after several box office bombs. Disney considered never making animated musicals again thankfully after playwright and lyricist Howard Ashman breakthrough success with his oddball musical comedy, little shop of Horrors Disney Ashman to work with them and the Little Mermaid a film that became so successful that it kicked off what's now known as the Disney Renaissance in the new Disney plus documentary Howard. We get a rare look at the amazing work and career of Howard Ashman whose life was tragically cut short when he died from AIDS and nineteen ninety-one midway through the production of beauty and. The beast and Aladdin Howard never saw either of these films finished and his surviving partner collected Oscar for best original song beauty and the beast today musical theater enthusiast Jake police CMO from the Youtube channel dream sound joins us. Take a look at the amazing musical legacy of Howard. Ashman we're coding and Disney films and beauty and the beast as an allegory for society's betrayal of people with a I'm Fausto. Fairness I'm Mark Pilion, and this is feast of fun. Do you really think she love you beast? Will you in love with hub beast? Did you honestly think she'd want you when she had someone like me These fun is made possible because a fierce fabulous people just like you support the podcast that you love join us at Patriotair. Dot. Com Slash Feast Fund and access thousands of legendary podcasts at our archives at FEASTA fund dot com slash plots, and subscribe to our Youtube Channel to fund our twitter fees to fund our instagram. Holiday. Anywhere, that's fun to be had. Feast Fund, is there. Thank you. Before we begin, let's listen to Howard Ashman singing part of your world from the Little Mermaid. This was a recording demo that was created for the development of the motion picture. I WANNA. WanNa. Dance. Walking around on those. com. Ziadeh. Roll along down. One to. A Hello Hi this Jake Belly Mall yes. Hi, an Ex `bellissimo your. Friend like me. This foul mark from fun how you doing today good. How are you? All doing? We are enjoying your amazing videos about musical theater and Disney and the Queer intersex malady in dream sounds on Youtube. Thank you so much I'm glad that you came to join us today I. Wanted to dedicate a whole show to the amazing Howard, Ashman who through his life and through a struggles, he gave the greatest gift of all amazing Queer Music to the world to sing and enjoy and love for generations to come and I wanted to start off by talking about your work, jake and your videos. Why are musicals? So Gosh, Darn Gay and popular with lgbtq folks. It's a long answer to make a long story short there were a lot of intersecting art forms. In the late nineteenth century, both in Europe and the United States that kind of found popularity with lgbtq communities. One of the most probably the easiest one to say is is OPERETTA and specifically Operetta in France specifically in Paris, where composers like Jack Often Baugh were composing music that appealed to kind of an underground culture that was going on at the time and a lot of operatic kind of had this reputation of not being as serious as the more mainstream format of opera. Musical theater history. We went sore from a Vaudevillian approach where people pay nickel to see a bunch of. razzle dazzle and musical numbers and juggling and slapstick comedy, and then We started gravitating historically I. Think with Oklahoma where the song and the dance advanced the plot and even with Roger and Hammerstein's Oklahoma. There's already songs about women enjoying the advances of men, which is very queer. Keys. I know she yard to give his face a smack. DAB want. Me I somehow, SORTA? Wanda. Kiss. When lights are low arcane, be Perc- and coins. Tied the CAN. Be What? Yes definitely, and with that became an understanding that musical theater was about unfulfilled desire about outsiders with Forbidden Angst and forbidden love which obviously speak so much to the nature of what being lgbtq is is is this literally with Howard Ashman and the Little Mermaid? It's a fish out of water story. Yeah I mean, and there's also a lot of precedent in the source material with Hans Christian Andersen's life and a lot of forms merged to form musical theater, and one of the common themes of a lot of those art forms was the fact that there was a developing underground culture that spoke heavily to Lgbtq people and even Mel Brooks. In the Broadway, production of his film, the producers has a Song Abou how musicals are Witty and pretty and gay metal. On Stage? Keep it gave. Me Him rage. And it's a pain. Keep it gay own laughter when they see a show the last thing there after Zlatan Neil. Happy. Real, pep. To bomb if he winds up. Keep it. Keep it gang. In terms of like your passions and interests. Europe musician who is very much invested in musical theater. Your husband is a a scene designer, right? Yeah and and and tell me more about like your attraction, your history, like what why do you care or excited about musical theater I mean you dedicate so much time and energy and making all these amazing videos, right? Yeah. I am when I was younger I grew up in Connecticut. So right outside of New York City and. I would see musicals when I was younger with my family and I kind of had this Very modern relationship to musicals in a way where like my main experience with them was through headphones and so I didn't really think about the songs within the context of the shows but I just thought about the song within the context of my life and so growing up and kind of also being involved with. Like punk music scenes of time, which are typically heavily involved with this idea of the person being inseparable from their songs, I kind of applied that relationship to music to musical theater, and so I think that's why I developed such a personal relationship to it and I think a lot of. People can also attest to that. That is kind of an inherent. Quality of like said like longing and desire that is so played up in musical theater and translate so well to queer experience. So well of loneliness come to life, right? Yeah definitely. But you know in terms of Albania, LGBTQ, there's a performance aspect to it. We either are performing who we're not or where performing who we'd like to be and in terms of like our attraction to. Creative spaces like musical theater, a theater in general. For a lot of people especially, the United States it is a safe space to be before the advent of lgbt youth groups came to be, and so for me high school seeing little shop of horrors was such an important film and in doing musical theater, it was like a place where I could excel I could shine I could be celebrated, and so part of it is like I. Think in terms of what we're speaking to is is that space that is created for Lgbtq people is why we're so attracted to musical theater and in terms of like I, think about going to Disneyland or Disney world before the Disney renaissance. It wasn't the same experience and it very much felt like going to a museum of old movies. There was nothing new in at Disney. I ever went to Disney world was in two, thousand six. So he went after the Disney Renaissance Yeah and so you have people who may recall going to Disneyland or Disney world felt very much like you're visiting the Tiki Bird Room, you're visiting snow. White, you're visiting space mountain but these are all attractions that were created decades ago and it was very much of a visit of nostalgia in the eighties. Disney was dying there was waning interest in going to the Disney theme parks and part of that was because they were more like museums than they were new exciting attractions and then later Americans developed a taste for Queer, culture and theatre. Was a Howard Ashman was friends with David Geffen who I believe at the time was in the closet I. Wasn't he married Takano. Raves. Secretly married to Kiana rooms. Are Business Partners who count arrays? No Howard Ashman David Geffen. Howard Ashman and Alan Menken met through the Liman Angle musical theater workshop, which is legendary still to this day Robert Lopez who wrote, let it go met his wife there. Here's a clip of an interview with frozen songwriters Kristen Anderson Lopez, and her husband Robert Lopez who wrote the legendary song let it go and how it shaped the entire film and once again, the queer themes of coming out of the closet pop up again. You have near who sings with this amount of. She couldn't be the villain anymore and we put ourselves in the mindset of someone who? Leave everything behind and be stuck out on a mountain and how cold and scared she would be at that moment singing. Goes wide on the mound. Not Afraid. A kingdom. Relation and. On. How This swirling stormings. Couldn't keep it in heaven knows And then. Don't let them see being. Always, have to be concealed. Don't don't let them. Well now. Now. Tell doesn't much better than I do. But once once you find once we found that song we had building blocks for the rest of the movie. Some really great collaborators came together and. You know got fell in love with each other through the musical theater workshops and. And change their lives and their careers forever. And in terms of like auditioning for that workshop, you have to cement three songs has to be an I. Want Song was like look at this. Isn't it. NEAT. Right And then there's an example of a charm song which allows us to bond with the characters. When we have absolutely nothing in common like another. See another see. Sorry I'm saying the simpsons very. Kids everything's GonNa be. Fine I'll go upstairs and pack your bags. We're GONNA start a new life. Under the sea. A. No Done, just league I. On. All. Hamamatsu solution to everything. It's. Not. With Dad, your dad razzle dazzled by this magical world were being transported into, and then a comedy song is a song. That sort of makes us forget about the dramatic tension that's being built up right. So it tends to be something that a secondary character sings and you know like I would say like Gustov on in beauty and the beast is kind of a comedy song but it also. Advances the plot no one slickest guests done. No one's quick. Neck says, incredibly thickness guess Tom for there's no man in town is Manley. Picked up your parents gun, you can ask any Tom, Dick or Stanley and they'll tell you whose team they preferred. Mike. And Mike now no one's got well cleft Chin like guest. Sermon Simon. Day. Off. Her. Gas Donny's Nook then the rest is. and. I'm at the core of this musical theater workshop and everything that we're talking about is the idea of song or dance needs to move the narrative forward that you can't just like capture a moment in a song and finish it in I. Think like you know, Howard Ashman really was instrumental in pushing people in pushing, Disney. Musical Theater in general just to think about that in a really deep way. Yeah, I think he was a huge proponent of when they were Little Mermaid of forever linking the formula in Musical Theater Miller There's like a legendary talk that people always reference in the production meetings for the Little Mermaid where the Disney crew invited him to speak and he gave a speech about the history of the development of the American musical and he famously put it alongside the. Development of the Disney animated film and he drew a lot of conclusions and drew a lot of parallels between the two. But. There was definitely a difference between what Disney musical is during the renaissance through now and what it was before least in my opinion like for example, film like Snow White. has to I want songs but there aren't really the there are musical numbers but they aren't as integrated into the film as something like the Little Mermaid and Howard Ashman, I feel like was very instrumental in consciously coating that into the fabric of Disney musicals using the the format of the I want song and having like ex-physician numbers and all of these things that happened because Disney was a company that released films that had very Popular songs in them, but weren't necessarily conscious decisions in the same way, and that forever changed the formula and also kind of just allowed Disney to have this revitalization. That was the renaissance because before the songs were just kind of like little diversions, right they'd sing a little song about like whistling while you work there's not really a whole lot going on with that. It's just like something a happy song right and then eventually kind of morphed is like we have to change this music into a song that's going to advance the plot, get people to understand the people's motivation and where they're going with us. Yeah there is definitely a difference between the kind of I guess what I would say pre book musical. Pre Oklahoma type of show that focused on entertainment before narrative and then yeah what Howard Ashman was doing, which had a very explicit narrative focus. In. Terms of you know Howard Ashman contribution. It's not like he just waltz into Disney and pulled everybody and said, all right everybody that's how it's going to be or did he? No not really because after the success it was it was little shop of horrors that was obviously very successful, and then there was smile in Nineteen eighty-six of Marvin Ham lush and it's interesting because there's actually a song in that called Disneyland or one of the characters romanticize wanting to live in Disneyland even though she knows it's fake. I. Maybe Solo fake. Take. A. Jim. Juice. Did. Get to. Stay. It was a ninety-six six that he was asked by Disney to participate in a movie called Oliver and company an animated film Billy Joel in it and he wrote the lyrics for a song called once upon a time in New York City and it was around then that the van that they then presented them with some ideas about which movies if they were to be hired, which ones would they want to work on and Howard Ashman set the Little Mermaid And so Geffen Records David Geffen who's gay his record label. Geffen records did the soundtrack for little shop of horrors David. Geffen was instrumental in pushing for Howard, Ashman and Alan men can go to California to work with Disney and he's the one who introduced into Disney executive. Ach. Jeffrey Katzenberg who was like practically begging Howard Ashman. was such a success mean what was the last time? You had a movie musical come out and people I saw little shop of horrors in the theater three times. That's unusual. The only other move on three times in the movie theater was ninety five south. You'd see why aesthetic is but you know for for a place like, Disney, they see something like that and they're like, okay, this is weird fantastical horror. Musical and look how big it is and they you know they had had such failings with some of their other works when I was in high school, it was like. A. Grade School actually won. The what was the black hole came out back cauldron Was a movie, the Disney made, and then it just seemed like one terrible Disney movie after another and people just kind of stopped going to Disney movies and even when Little Mermaid commandos probably like. In College by that point in time, we were just kind of like. Forget about it I. I didn't see the Little Mermaid until like you know maybe twelve or thirteen years ago because I just kinda slept on it because. Know at the time that came out we were just so over the Disney films. But of course, like when beauty and the beast came out I was I was ready for because I had seen the John Cocteau film I'm like Oh i WanNa see what Disney does with this and how it works and you know I saw with a friend of mine and she's a you know a very liberal. Feminist you know and she was just like she was super impressive because she thought. Disney, 'cause we we came from the same era and we're just going to be like Snow White Cinderella waiting for her Manikam, and here was a self-confident woman who is just like I'm going to do this for my family I'm going to go out there in the world, and then she meets this guy this monster and falls in love something. That is so interesting about the narrative of beauty vs there's a really good video sas on Youtube Lindsey who has a video where she talks about where she talks about how beating the beasts. It has nothing to do with the woman. doesn't have much to do with the women being trapped by man as much as it does with two men trying to have control over a woman. And that tension between guests and the beast is kind of the narrative focus but it's interesting because Howard Ashman also changed the narrative of eating the. Beauty, and the beast they were brought in the film was failing as a non musical and they were brought in Alan Menken and Howard asked more brought in to turn the film into a musical like they did with the Little Mermaid. And Howard Ashman actually pushed for the beast to also be viewed as kind of a main character in the story. And that definitely changes that definitely adds more sympathetic edge to the story that. Wasn't always there in previous adoptions of the of the and you see Jean Cocteau's version. He. Like the beast is her family is jealous that she's living with his beast and house all these riches. So it's like they're the ones that are going to tackle. So you can see how the love interest kind of raises the stakes. But there's always a queer angle to everything you know and to give people a perspective of what it was like in the late eighties for any gay man working in musical theater New York City, we're dealing with the high of the AIDS crisis. You have a society that has villain is queer people throughout our lives throughout history and right kind of similar parallels to the covert pandemic is that people there's no preparation and the Republicans who are in charge of the federal government decide that it's best just to let people die than actually spend any money in addressing the AIDS crisis and so one way that activists and you know just people. In, the LGBTQ world were thinking about is we needed to tell our stories. We need to get our narratives, our voices out there, and so lick. Even this podcast you know is a consequence of this idea that you know. You have only one life to live fearlessly. Be Yourself Tell your story, tell other people stories and get them out there for the world to see and it was only. I think generation of people doing that and having that approach that really I think changed America's views on homosexuality on an and I think you know the way we think about transgender people today is also a consequence of that. It's not that like corporation said, Oh we want to change the world. So let's have lgbtq people tell their stories on our channels. It was that lgbtq people were telling their stories and those stories were so endearing compelling and Heartwarming that these corporations had no other option, no other choice but to make money off of them and include them in their programming, and so there was a symbiosis that started occurring and that's why I think people today have a very different perspective on Lgbtq people than they did in the late eighties and I think for someone like Howard Ashman it was very critical actually that he's not just a lyricist for Disney, but he's a producer for the. Little. Mermaid. So when Jeffrey Katzenberg wanted to cut out a lot of the songs because they were nervous because they weren't testing well with audiences especially, one with them was part of your world. Howard, Ashman said to Jeffrey Katzenberg over my dead body and considering that he knew he was HIV positive that time you can imagine the gravity of statement like that. Yes. It means something completely different today than it did in the late eighties. Yeah. It's interesting. It's interesting how what you were saying about queer subtext and the ability to either speak openly or covertly it's interesting. Just how in something like the little. Mermaid. That already has queer subtexts built into it. From Hans Christian Andersen, it's interesting how that send transferred and I mean there's no. Primary sources of Howard. Ashman we're doing this because this, but it's hard to not believe that he was aware of that and consciously thought of that while working on the film especially because there were as as you probably already know or the drag Ursula the sea witch. was coated to look like divine. Howard Ashman from Baltimore. Maryland He. Age At where everybody in Baltimore knew about John. Waters is films. He much had an appreciation for camp for for trashing for outrageousness for drag and you know Alan Menken said in many interviews that Howard wrote songs as a reflection of his own life that part of your world definitely is an allegory for people wanting to be long. And and. You certainly see beauty and the beast I think is a very interesting film because it's it's it's written from the perspective of somebody who knows they're going to be dying soon from AIDS. and. So his that I mean that the song kill the beast it it's kind of hard. It's kind of difficult to listen to today because we're dealing with. So many of the same issues with trump and the pandemic it's a little sad that we've not really as a society sort of learn from these mistakes that we made in the past and we're still dealing with the same kinda angry villagers that want to burn things down. Yeah I think I think it's so unfortunate when people when people criticize usually very lazily in my opinion. Criticize Disney films for for just having not good stories because I think feeding the beast is such a compelling story that has so much power even beyond what's written in the text and yeah, it's hard to not view those songs as a reflection of what was happening Howard actions life and we know now also from other songs from testimonies like for example, he worked on Aladdin before they ended up scrapping his treatment and going with the what would be the ninety two version but in his version of Aladdin, there was a song sung by. The villain where he it's called, humiliate the boy where he strips down Aladdin Strips of everything he has, and at the time of course, Howard Ashman was was dealing with AIDS related. And their testimonies that it seemed very obvious where the where that was coming from and it kind of became very tragic in a way to hear him present the song. They do show a little bit of that song in the Documentary Howard that's on Disney right now, which is our inspiration for doing this but you mentioned the source material for the Little Mermaid, the Hans, Christian, Andersen, fairy tale, and for some the listeners out here who may not know as they say that Hans Christian Andersen had a crush that he was most likely game man and he was in love with. A man who would never be able to return his affections and that's when he wrote the Little Mermaid. He was the little fish lady that couldn't ever find love. Yeah. There was no outward declaration his life, but there was a clear romance whether or not that was just sexual romantic with men and yeah and as a result, a lot of his stories kind of carry this Queer Association with them and the snow. Queen. which is inspiration for frozen. and. So it is interesting sort of how this This artistic genre sort of really speaks to people who are struggling with being seen and heard, but also fulfilling their desires. Yes. I think I. think that's kind of one of the really beautiful things about how work. Especially it's queer context I grew up in a kind of conservative of Connecticut even listening to songs like part of your world or like the bell in beauty and the beast I didn't know I wouldn't identify as gay until many years later and that I wouldn't identify. As Trans Non, binary until years after that. But at the same time I, think about those memories of listening to the songs and kind of empathizing with the characters but not really understanding the feelings and so I think that's a very powerful thing when you can kind of communicate this emotion that allows people to maybe even subconsciously process who they are before they even know yet. Yeah, it's kind of bittersweet that Ashman never got to see or hear the finished beauty and the beast. In hospital bed and That are tested very well with critics, and then he died shortly thereafter and then husband while his partner at the time because they can legally get married had except the academy award on his behalf. Now, there's a there's a question, and maybe you might know the answer to this. His husband was an architect who was developing a home in upstate New York for them to work and live in and as I understand did were they able to ever move into that house before he passed away or with the house not constructed? Do no I thought. I. Had thought they moved into it before he passed away because it's kind of. Documentary that they made it pretty clear that they lived in that home together, and that's why I'm asking because I saw conflicting information elsewhere about it and I just imagined that it must have been like emotionally hard for surviving partner to be dealing with this. Physical location that he built for them and be inside that home is hard after you've lost. Somebody was so much potential who gave to a so much in such a short amount of time then passed away and I wonder like you know in terms of like Howard Ashman do you think his experience as a person with AIDS drove his ambition to try to create so much work in such a short period of time I think it's hard to say without any direct quotes, but it would it would make sense to me because he was obviously. So dedicated to to his craft up until the day he passed that it would make sense to me that he would also be heavily invested in using the time he had part of it is like he in one thousand nine. Hundred Eighty eight he he didn't WANNA get an HIV test because he feared he would lose his health insurance and job opportunities. The that was the thing back in the day it was like that's why you wanted to get a novice testing. If you went to game in South Center, it's just it's not they made it very clear. This is anonymous testing and that was part of the big change in how we were responding to the AIDS crisis was being able to make anonymous HIV and STI testing accessible to people everywhere. It's still like a testament to Republicans and conservatives shortcomings that they still to this day fight that our ability to respond to any kind of disease is something that's. Really, held back because they're politicizing the act of getting test. Like in terms of like Howard Ashman death, I've read about Howard Ashman 's death aum the day. I went to my first pride March in Austin Texas in Nineteen ninety-one and to me something that really like affected me deeply because I felt like in a Lotta ways as a fan of his work through little shop of horrors and beauty and the beast and the Little Mermaid I felt like a lot of ways that there were so much that if felt even like Aladdin feels like an unfinished masterpiece they had bring. In other musicians and artists to finish the work and I do remember even with Lion King. There was a little bit of resentment that and that was part of the reason they even Brent brought an Elton John was because they wanted gave voice inside their shaping the Disney films I think lion king works as a musical but I think certainly like a film like Tarzan and even a other subsequent Disney musical films. They really don't have that magic that that ability for those songs to stick so so deeply. You anybody they can sing friend like me. They can sing part of your world. They can sing gusts on. Let let they can sing. Let it go by Robert Lopez. And I don't know. I wonder if like you know in terms of like the success of a musical song, something more magical more ethereal butted is is. Is, it love is it is it a sense of longing or sadness? These songs cannot be made in a vacuum. They can't be made through a corporate boardroom. This is something that has to stem from people's desire to struggle and to celebrate their lives. Yeah I. Think. I think that's a very complicated moshing to answer because I think the nature of like some rating is so abstract but I think I think what made Howard Ashman standout among other Disney songwriters of the time was kind of the placement of where the songs were in the film as well, and he clearly had an influence on Disney films after that. But utilizing forms like the I want song and kind of linke it to characters kind of allows. The songs to function differently. I think if a song lake part of your world, we're at the end of the film where there was more resolution or like where there is conflict, it wouldn't function in the same way and I think that's kind of one one way. Then the lyrics conserve that narrative purpose and then the lyrics I feel like turn out much better I mean Howard Ashman influence interesting. He he also influence after he passed away in other Disney renaissance gums like, for example, in Hercules the the most of the sun by the muses which are in the film Gospel Choir, and that was actually per Howard Ashman recommendation before he passed away. We. Is Gone The arts and proclaim Azzam hero heroes like Hercules, hunter humane. Bunk Yalies. News story actually begins long before. Maybe yards. Back when the world was new. At Earth was down on its luck. And everywhere, gigantic boots call type breath. Was a mass. Was a mess wherever you stepped went hail. Block. I. because. He recommended that the director of the film when they were in New York he recommend the they go see I, believe it was possible colonus and which was a musical or which is a play Broadway that featured a gospel choir. As kind of literal interpretation of the Greek chorus. And even then dislike yeah pre Tarzan, all the films use the same exact format whether. Yeah, arguably some not as successful as others, but they kind of base the phone at the Little Mermaid said. Well, it's really like the Greek chorus and little shop of horrors for a Lotta people is the first time they ever became aware of them up. Off. Talk. Back. Early in high school like I was obsessed with little shop of horrors so much that I made a video game pays. which is like I did not know how to code for Shit, but there was on the Commodore Sixty, four computer. There was a piece of software you could buy that allows you to do a very rudimentary a midi song coating. So the song in the background was did it did edited They Uh. Describe it is. It was a Pacman game were Seymour is trying to collect. Stuff and he's Audrey. Audrey one is just kind of floating around the screen of the dentists can kill them, and of course, the plant and the little plants can kill on the ghost and Pacman. I wish I had a copy or a screen shot of that because like I spent probably three or four months working on that video game. That's great and you know this is like for the vantage point of a teenager who's in the closet like we didn't have the Internet in terms of sexuality like for me it was like videotaping the solo flex commercials on late night television and then sorry staying up late equipped to be able to watch them when the rest of my family had gone to bed this is solo flanks. A revolutionary machine you can use at home. It combines all. Coastal, zones with. You know in in terms of like, you know for me, it's like I went to Grad school and wrote musicals because of Howard Ashman and a dedicated. So much of my life and time to doing a collaborative musical theater work in Chicago but unfortunately like we have. In New York City you have that BMI musical theater workshop or you have the WPA theater you have all kinds of institutions, venues, organizations, funding sources to support people in the arts to do this kind of collaborative stuff and you know the the. Howard Ashman of yesterday Begat the Lin Manuel Miranda and Robert Lopez. Today. Alexander Hamilton. Manela's Alexander Hamilton. A million things I haven't done. Just. And yes. In terms of like what the future holds when we don't have those institutions and organizations, we rob ourselves from the music of the future from the let it go and maybe that's not. Know some people find like let it goes really annoying. You know. Wasn't complete everywhere. But but it is something that ties us together as a culture. You know in terms of like what we're facing as a society right now, music is something that can bond us together. So we can overcome the tyranny that we're facing right now like in terms of fighting depression, you know when when we're dealing with an economic depression, we're also dealing with a psychological depression when we're dealing with people who are struggling with their physical health, their mental health is also tied to it and we know musical theater and music general is something that can really speak to our condition today, and that's why it's so important to keep those kind of institutions like the BMI musical theater workshop going into the future. I went to their website and their their. Their program has been postponed for a year. So everybody who has Because of COVID. Yeah. Oh that's so unfortunate. You have you talked to people who have actually taken the workshop. It's really an amazing thing. No I haven't I was I was going to apply, but then I moved to Germany so you can do it. You're young and still got your wits about. Your into I would advise everybody to to apply for it. kind of speed dating. So you either can take the track of a composer lyricist or a librettist, a person who writes the non spoken in the non sung parts of a musical and the librettist part is a little bit different. It's more of a of a workshop where people sit around a boardroom and talk to each other about their work. But the in terms of the the pairing of. Lyricist with songwriter it's kind of like speed dating where every week or so you switch you, you find a new partner. A new dance partner right and you see how you react to each other and what kind of work together. So there's a lot of demand for like cranking out and churning out material. And from everybody that I've talked to has taken it, they say it's transformed their lives. It's one of those things where it's completely free. And I'm doing a free plug because I know so many people have benefited and we as a society have benefited from the BMI Leeman Angle Musical Theater workshop that I to really if you thought about this writing musicals your dream go check it out. It's really an amazing thing i. wish that I actually like I have a lament that I wish that I would've applied for that back in the day when I had the opportunity to do so but you know I chose a different path unfortunately. But In terms of like. Reflect on the life of Howard Ashman. When you when you realize that he's gone and that you know we're sort of the new Howard. Ashman. Today where the storytellers in the songwriters what does that leave you with jake in terms of like a sense of legacy. A sense of hope I think I've done a few videos that kind of reference, the Queer specifically impact of Howard Ashton's work, and in all of them I think my kind of like we're talking about this abstract feeling of longing or desire that kind of unifies a lot of lgbtq individuals I think that persists and that's kind of what is special about his work because even though he his life was cut short unfortunately the the inspiration that comes from his work allows kind of tools for many people than on to them to write their own works and kind of express themselves in different ways. Yeah. It's. If you get a chance to watch little shop of horrors it's it's probably one of Howard Ashman greatest works that people might forgotton about especially the director's cut there's two versions, the original version and Broadway in the off Broadway production, the plants win. It's Commentary on capitalism. It's you know the plant represents unfettered capitalism and speaking to people's desire for greed. See Moore's character feels that he is not worthy of love unless he buys into the tenements of capitalism, which is basically sacrificing human life in order to get love. Lovely Dream. If life were tawdry and impoverished as. I. She might not love me. What I love so much about those lyrics just for the show in general but also specifically like songs lake somewhere that's green. There is this kind of element of camp and sarcasm to the lyrics, but somehow a song that functions as the character singing about something. So mundane becomes emotional I. think that also contributes to just the success of that show the widespread appeal it had through the way it was really well written. Well, it's a love letter to Baltimore. It's a the the campus static, the the embracing of tract homes and TV dinners and You know Howdy doody on the television set this kind of sixties nostalgia. That we see. So beautifully represented in both John Waters Films, and also these moments and little shop of horrors like a lot of people know of peaches Christ they know of John Waters but they don't think of Howard Ashman is one of the. Baltimore and yeah. But he's extremely influence and you know and that camp aesthetic speaks to us. You Know Audrey too, which is a male sounding monster has a woman's name and in the film they the musical they refer to Audrey to as a she. Seem. Tonight Dri. ooh Girl Are we still going out? Anywhere. Crow born you've staying right here and take care of that seat plant i. told you it's been giving me trouble. Girl strictly between US majors the Audrey one. There's a debate online whether Audrey to is a trans character or is it a mess gender or what's a plant lawmakers? Out of. Might not even be a plan. Really it just looks like a plan well, and there's a song that did make it into the film and I'm not sure if this is part of the musical where we're audrey to compares herself to King Kong and Godzilla. They got nothing on me. You know. Godzilla. Be Green but I'm the one who's watched the alternative ending they have it on Youtube. But man, it's just you know and I've seen the the live, the live show and it's it's weird to see them die in the end and kind of get absorbed by the plant. Kinda works to the stage production. But when you translate to that to the screen, it's just it's horrify. You're like you want you want Audrey one and see more to live a happy life and to get away with it. Know you want them to succeed but it's hard because you know the the musical is a commentary on capitalism right? And going to the movies and buy a movie ticket and buy some Popcorn and soda and sitting there is consuming and buying something, and at the end of the film telling you, you know you're a bad person for helping the plants. Helping capitalism destroy the world and you're like I may agree with a message but I want I still would like to see Seymour triumph in the end that love and these two lost souls are able to overcome this menace of capitalism for a mean green mother from outer space who is a threat to the very existence of Humanity Jake, what do you think about the ending of little shop of horrors the film as opposed to the musical I? Think it's definitely obviously less transgressive and I think that was probably a deliberate. I went to see the off. Broadway production the new one from last year and They have the original ending. It definitely leaves you kind of. More of. Like a sucker punch to the gut because I think it kind of transgresses every traditional narrative tropes that we're taught to understand like in terms of tension and release. Yeah. I I kind of liked the desolate ending more was interesting that you know even though a the world is in ruins, the Greek chorus is still able to look flawless. And transcend everything you know lake and that's a that's another interesting choice that frank ause that was his. directorial film debut. Actually, it was a first project he had done without Jim Henson involved. Even though Henson workshop made the puppets for the film Jim Hansen was not involved in any of it. It was actually his his son Brian Henson who helped develop and create the Audrey to that. We see in the film. This are all practical affects. There's NO CGI in this movie and the way they accomplish this is they they filmed it at regular speed and they speed it up and so Rick Moranis who's playing Seymour is moving slowly like molasses almost like a A. Bhutto dancer. Through the air like if you slow it down. Or you put it into regular speed. You can see that he's kind of like moving slowly and lip synching slowly but it is really a masterpiece in in Rick moranis acting and singing skills and you know you go on Youtube and you look at other productions subsequently of little shop of horrors and they just don't hold the magic and the power of like Levi stubbs is performance as audrey to or even Rick Moranis performance you know and it's also great that and this is another unusual thing that they did which usually when musicals are adapted for films, they don't bring in the cast and Audrey Green who does audrey she's his still doing it. She's still doing it to this day. Labor two years later she's still singing somewhere. That's green and she's still can belted out. Yeah. She sounds she sounds fantastic and she doesn't look much different now just crazy. Surgery. Put pull that face back girl you look like you know. Andrzej. New again. At to me, it's like I don't know I. Do feel like so many people with Audrey Two's character there's a I would say describe Levi stubbs voice as being able very Dynamic and very playful and people like don't grasp that whoever takes on the role they tend to Way Down it was very little. Richard. Isn't it? Yes. Yeah. It's very much. Nonconformity. And And part of that is like a even they redid little shop of horrors with. A who is it the from a from pose? Latina twin Jay Rodriguez and Jay Rodriguez. Yeah it's really good and George George. Salazar. Did it out and I think San, Diego, or something. It was on they did a performance. The late show with. Someone can watch on Youtube. Up Curious to see like if by putting these two characters as Latino people that then the flower, the plant takes on a different threat. The psychot- been. Its sole. Lead. Would switch under. Here's a trans woman singing about the girl that's inside the girl that's inside you. And Jay. Rodriguez is a trans woman and I think that also goes to show the flexibility but also the underlying sort of weirdness of. Howard. Actions. Work. It just something that you like. You take for granted because it's just a song you've listened to a million times that you forget the depth and the meaning when you I listened to it with a fresh that of ears. Yeah I think that flexibility is really interesting. Could I could I am connected to two more interesting things? I'm not about little shop at about Little Mermaid. That I think are relevant to this discussion One thing was about that sort of flexibility. I'm not sure if you're familiar with. The a kind of poetic justice that occurred in the international dubbing of Little Mermaid where. There was a drag queen in the Latin American. Spanish version who voiced. Ursula. And she was billed under her drag name. I'm sitting in Oviedo and V though yet, which means Serena forgot. Oh. On the means forget about IT I. I, highly recommend looking up. It's very sinister and very like yet poetic justice to the fact that the character was influenced by divine and also I was learned to recently that I believe in the Arabic version. Ursula also played by am Oh wow in the dubbing, which is, which is so interesting though when you have I mean not many people know that and it's so funny how that in a company like Disney which really only in the past five years has been publicly open an APP to LGBT key representation. That that kind of slid under the radar in a way. That's very interesting. You know. The whole world of dubbing as a is an interesting world a lot of times. If you're an actor, any movie you make is going to be dubbed by that same exact actor or they just change things around I remember like my friends from Sweden the early nineties we're telling me like every single movie that Goldie Hawn has ever done is titled the Girl Who and blank like the girl who did this girl? Who did that did this and it's like they're completely different characters, but it's always the girl who? Howard Ashman was very visionary was in bringing in making Sebastian's character Jamaican with a vocal by Samuel e right when Disney announced that there were remaking the Little Mermaid with live actors those a lot of controversy because they cast a bike actress in the role of Ariel they're all like Ariel should be white not black. But she's she's great though. It's just a very little time for that. It's it's moments like that that I remember how many Disney fans are so And Awful. You're listening to something I don't know in the documentary and Howard Ashman, but there was something in his previous Work that had a little bit of a Caribbean kind of feel to it. What was that something that they had something little shopper there was some something else I forget what it was. That kind of has the same kind of feel. That's the song some fun now damn. He's having some fun now. Yes. Ma'am. He's having some fun how you know but that's being gay in New York City you have access to Puerto Rican culture to Jamaican culture to some really great influences and people that undoubtedly shapes your work. And it's something that's really fantastic. You know I'm looking forward to seeing. Halle Bailey in the live action whenever it comes out, it was supposed to come out this year but I think it's going to be postponed Disney pluses. Major box office gamble is they're gonNA make Moulana available on Disney plus for basically thirty bucks thirty bucks to watch which is much cheaper than going to the movies. If you've got five kids, you know like, Hey, kids learn about this cross drawn soon. Girl. Off The huns, I, wonder how that will do internationally as well. 'cause in Germany, it doesn't cost thirty dollars to go to the movie theaters. Like it's Ten dollars, but it's time for one person you take your kids. Well. You can depends on which theater I I live near neighborhoods where like you can go to a movie theater for five dollars per person own. So I'm curious as to how that's going to fair. Internationally, but also it's it's Disney so. I'm sure it'd be. Living as an ex Patriot in Berlin or are you permanently? Yeah. My goal is to be permanently here. I've been here for years now. Yeah. So. Imagine it must be. Quite, extraordinary to be living there while this pandemic is unfolding in the United States, and there's an irony there right because you're seeing the United States sort of fall into fascism. Any country that had fallen to fascism at World War Two. Still. Yes. I mean yeah, it's it's it's very complicated but it is. It is interesting to see as someone who has an American passport but plans stay in Berlin of. In, retrospect. Glad I left when I did. But also feel selfish about saying that ultimately. It's a very nuanced thing and it's I try and do all I can from a distance to help Bruin seems. I've always I only was there once, but it seems like just a fantastic place to live and work. There's gotta be lots of Americans that are living there. Yeah, I think also. There's also one of the reasons I was so drawn to the city is just I. Do I d work in musicology with this with this Youtube Channel also? Recently in German history and there's a huge lgbt culture and specifically for me, What's interesting is is trans culture. As a non binary person like there were, there were discussions about third genders one hundred years ago in Berlin. which is just fascinating to me that kind of lineage I was just going to link it back to Howard Ashman because there's also from German musical speaking of like us coating other cultures into his work. There is kind of another queer context to the song porn fortunate souls. Just, because Alan Menken and it's it it. It bears a very striking resemblance to the song pirate Jenny from threepenny opera and that in in Berlin in the first half of the twentieth century. In the LGBT seeing there there was there was a link that can be argued between Clinton vile and how their work. Represented under an underground culture of the time and there were a lot of links. Between sex work and prostitution in Weimar, Republic Germany and LGBTQ culture like a lot of. A lot of districts that were well known for heterosexual sex work in prostitution were also frequented by by gay male prostitutes and there is. Even like a connection between women, prostitutes, protecting the the men prostitutes in kind of helping them if they were ever caught and so there, and so to have a song son by sex worker, our prostitute within threepenny opera the characters is sometime, Sunday a prostitute to have that also just conveniently coated also into his number is very interesting in Alan Menken said that he was listening to threepenny opera when they were making the music that Little Mermaid people might recognize this song mack the knife is from threepenny opera right? Per. was. Just. Acknowledge. He. And he? One. Original German sounds different than fat frank. Sinatra. Ella Fitzgerald version but it's there. But I guess that's that's also a musical explanation for why Souls also lends itself so well to camp and also dragged in particular because it also has the musical genre that it takes from also history in that. Well, you know. My Mom's high school. Boyfriend's was terrence McNally. Oh. And he Is No longer with us. He's one of the first people who passed away from covid in in the spring of twenty twenty. One thing that I interestingly had a conversation with. About was why he loved going to the opera. Theater so much and part of it, and he says that back in the day going to the theater, New York City as a gay man was fabulous because intermission Yukon to flirt with other game at. And so the whole idea of being a friend of Dorothy stands from the fact that gays love to go to theater and see cabaret and any kind of show that that went on for a long time and had a lot of breaks was very favorable because they could get cocktails they could socialize things spent time in the bathroom they can spend time in the bathroom washing their. And then go see a little theatre. It's very different from even the gay bath house seen a scene in the film, the Ritz that was based on Terence's play very much goingto gay bath house was not just for sex that can the day it was a place for people to gather and watch performance Rita. Moreno says that being in terrence McNally's is plays we really helped revitalize her career after her success early six guys with west side story. For people who are fans of the show may not know about this but the character in love Valor Compassion Ramon fornos the Great Puerto. Rican. Drag Queen Performance Artists extraordinaire is based on me. I did my mother. Organiz the salon for Terrence McNally. And me and my friends did a basically. A campy Weirdo performance art drag show in her living room in Texas and that stuck with him and he incorporated one of the characters into love valor compassion. So that's wonderful. So We're all connected. Basically is why I'm saying like everybody is just one or two degrees of separation from Howard Ashman. You may not even know, Howard, Ashman but you do now you certainly saw his music and he lives as in Lion King says he lives in you to paraphrase and now when you go to Disneyworld, house music is everywhere they're singing be our guest be our guest it's fully ingrained and I thank Fully ingrained into Disney and also just entertainment in general One of my personal favorite Howard Ashman songs it was mentioned briefly in the documentary well. Sheridan Square the one that he wrote with Alan Menken that was essentially just a commentary on his personal experience during AIDS. Yeah. It was one of the first songs about AIDS and the loss of things. Too. Soon. When somebody's getting fame's Nobody's get new. And you can send my regrets to the Pari. pitchers stone did. shooed in Janis. Martin. Danish. Of the the boys. The boys heave. We run the good ship. With Sing. Stand. To lose. It's Sheridan's. There's a line in it where he says some of the boys panicked but none of the boys leave town they say were on the good ship titanic. WE'RE GONNA sing till the boat goes down I think that the that lyric alone kind of paints a picture of the kind of resilience that he portrayed throughout a lot of his work from. Little Shop? Little. Mermaid beating in the beast even smile this. kind of drive to keep going that I think also resonates well a lot with queer individuals and that's kind of what I was talking about earlier with just optimism about that queer legacy because if anything it just reminds us of the resilience of of lgbt people that have always been here and aren't going anywhere honey. We're like gum on your shoe, you're going to have to work hard to get off of. Yeah. Jake, it's a delight talking to you. I really love your videos where you put so much of your heart and soul and energy into celebrating the Disney's music can queer legacy was the last time you went to Disneyworld or Disneyland I went on my honeymoon in January Walt Disneyworld? which is Great. Oh, just recently then yeah. Right before the pandemic hit. Yes. Let or or when it was already there we don't know. 'cause I've read stories of people like saying they got really sick with cove like symptoms in January at Disney feels. So But yeah, I. Yeah I was that your husband's first time to going to Disneyland now we I went in two thousand eighteen he wasn't yet like you said he's a scenic designer and he wasn't He wasn't very familiar to Disney and so I've been slowly introducing him. Not. So slowly it's a real pop culture explosion. If you're never been to Disneyland like you know I went to Disneyland in the eighties before the renaissance, and then we had the when our first podcast hit big. We became guests of the park after speaking to lgbt employees organization and to give us something behind the scenes tour of Disneyland in California and we got it like VIP. It was really something really I'll never forget and I was just giggling and laughing to myself so much because it was just a release, a ball of joy. Sure runamuck and then you're just like surrounded by all this stuff and the Indiana Jones ride is really bizarre ride that combines every cliche from Indiana Jones movie. and. It's all thrown at you darts and a rolling ball and snakes snakes. SPIDERS and all kinds of all giant balls. What, what's your favorite? What's your favorite ride and I think? One of my favorite things is the bird room and I love your video. We're sort of like examine and analyze the history and the legacy of. Polynesian Culture EXOTICA and the Tiki bird room what what's your favorite Disney ride? That's a hard question I. Think I would say honestly either spaceship Earth at Epcot or or the pilot's own tower of terror a Hollywood studios. The haunted hotel thing is that the one is they got rid of that. Yeah. They got rid of it at Disneyland, but they're still the original one at Disneyworld. I I mean, I think the whole thing about Disney and that's kind of when when I I in shoes John? My husband to Disney. I was kind of like, okay. You're a man of the theater like this theater and I I've always been kind of drawn to the sort of gazumped Christopher or like the it wasn't invented by Wagner but I guess is most associated with him. Now the idea of one one piece of art encapsulating every form of art possible and I think that's kind of what theme parks to at least on the Disney level where it's kind of complete immersion. Twilight Zone does that incredibly well Whether, it's the sound design, the scenic design or just like the immersing yourself in an experience. Yeah. Basically, because the twilight zone ride is is a free falling elevator. It's a roller coaster that goes up and down and. It builds up so much tension and suspense in waiting in line that by the time you sit in these chairs, you're not sure what's going to happen. Yeah. Yeah. I mean the ride itself is only like two minutes long but the entire experience like twenty minutes and you you start to feel your mortality. We actually wrote that ride with Devon Green of Betty bowers welcome to my home. Oh Wow. Is going to hurt her back back problems. No. I'll be all right, but it's actually relatively a safe ride to I like to me. It's like it's not I feel like the rollercoaster does that take you upside down run more risk of damaging your back than any other ride? Part of the reason I avoid those. I don't know I just have so many happy memories at Disneyland and you know it's it does make me sad that the pandemic right now is putting all that stuff on pause even though there was this creepy video of like we're open now. I Yeah I. Have a lot of my heart goes out to the Disney employees the CAST members at. Disneyworld. I. Bet. The ones that have to wear like the big costume heads are happier. In yeah, mascots are doing well, you know they're like nothing's check them the ones who have to play like you know bell or sleeping beauty or Cinderella, all these little kids. Well. It's interesting because I think when we went there last time we were there in in Disneyland we saw cruella developed and clearly they were a drag queen and it's just like By precious children who will. and. That to me is success of this this harvey milk way back in their. Wanted to blast, open, the door, the door, the closet door open, and through generations of people all over the world, telling their story, coming out to the friends and families and having this very difficult conversation. It's how we changed the world and yeah, you know I think today it's important for you to be safe and for you to take care of. Your immediate needs don't come out of the closet if you fear that you're going to be thrown out of the house or put in danger. But if you have the ability to come out professionally to your co workers or to your friends and family do it, you're be a better person and you're definitely helping to make the world a better place jake. I think I guess my nation with Disney on a whole from a queer perspective is kind of this idea that when you grow up I mean we as Lgbtq people were forced to grow up in in many societies and cultures that might not be so accepting of lgbtq people and so you have a phenomenon where with Disney, you put a child in front of a TV and kind of position them for force them to empathize with the with a narrative that doesn't really empathize with them. And I think that's kind of where the quickness comes in because then there's the subtext but also you have people developing authentic genuine relationships to this media and I think that's kind of the place that we're in. Now where you have generations of lgbtq people who have formed incredibly personal and also incredibly queer associations with Disney media and I'm and I guess that's kind of the main driving thing behind a lot of my channels content is kind of analyzing that and where does that come from and how does that? How can we look at that to? Both analyze how we got here and what needs to change but also acknowledging who we are as people and I think to bring it back to Howard Ashman I think that's that has work in that was kind of a subtle wink I think to a lot of lgbtq people I mean I would say that myself a kind of a subtle wink amidst all fat it's interesting how you talk about the generation -ality of all that kind of stuff. 'cause you know certainly like if you saw Pinocchio Jiminy Cricket, there's a little bit of a gay element there as well, and that was that made the forties or fifties and then. It's not until we have. Frozen to where we're kind of like, okay she really is a lesbian. I did a video about I did a video about Ferdinand, the bull, which nineteen thirty, eight short. By Disney. that. It's so funny because the the the story is basically about pacifism and kind of. Main character who is Small flowers but Disney released a song alongside the film kind of Pokes Fun at the character in essentially calls him like. Like feminine or kind of flake assist in a way. Wake up big change to bird. Word, and So like Went up or Mr Mike. Yeah I mean it's there's kind of this like degrading nature to the song where they make explicit references that kind of code this gender into the character, which also makes it very clear in a way although they didn't they intended it to be an insult So this stuff at Disney goes back. Yeah. There was also like the Reluctant Dragon, another character that has a similar function in the Disney catalog so it's interesting Just remade for the bowl I think John. Wants the voice of the ball. It's kind of interesting to see you know because he's You know he's the kind of guy though he's like a big handsome jock that everybody loves but he would have no problem I don't think playing or being gay. Else Bhairon gotTA kites. Not. Johnson. Yeah. Do you think Disney knew what they were getting into. Part of it is you know we also looking at Disney's legacy. Disney was a man who not who's definitely had a past of anti-semitism and in terms of you know he was certainly like working to down. Communists Hollywood. There's also this like urban legend that Disney's head is frozen. In a jar waiting to be re animated like a monster you know. And I don't believe that's true. But but the fact that that legend persists it sort of speaks to what the animators. In before the renaissance they describe it as Mouse Switz-. That it was a very difficult, very oppressive environment to work for, and it's actually you know the influence of Pixar and Disney Renaissance that transformed that company into something a little bit. More. Compassionate and kinder and diverse than what it was in the seventies and eighties. Yes I mean I think I think Walt Disney I don't I don't think I would work in a binary of a good or bad person, but he was very arrogant and I think. That definitely reflected in the way he treated others in the way that I'm I mean, that was also kind of how he was able to do the work that he did, but it also led to a lot of really bad decisions. And it's interesting to see Disney Company. kind of Lake I mean they've they've been in terms of workplace productions. They've been pretty good for the past twenty twenty to thirty years. But as a company publicly, they've still kind of held onto this conservative image and it's been interesting to see them kind of adapt now, and they had last year at Disneyland Paris. They had the first ever official. Pride celebration. At, any Disney park, there had been unofficial gay days for for a long time but. If you buy the mouse years that rainbow flag on it, you have to get it from behind the counter. I don't think that's the case anymore when I made when I made that Howard Ashman video I was clearly upset about that because I think it was the first year they introduce loew's and it was like I was watching logger and he was like, Oh, I had to ask them and it's just like it's Disney. I mean during during the Gay Pride as last year. At Disneyland they introduced a bunch of food that was clearly gay like it was all all this rainbow food that suddenly appeared the parks for a four day period. That was when Gates were happy name. Just, call it like rainbow cheesecake or something, and it's just so it's cheesecake. pinged cake. Becomes. Becomes very very turned fannies. But it is. You know that's that's part of our Ashman spoke to in in little shop horrors that Audrey to is still in your garden and is going to consume everything and have to be very careful of how don't feed the plants you know in terms of capitalism it you have to be very careful on how you. Turn a struggling a disenfranchise mu. Movement into another product for Your Corporation to package and sell, and you know it's I every business that I speak to about this, it's like you have to have a lot of conversation with your customers on your employees about how you approach black lives matter of how you deal with LGBT Q. Equality and diversity and not just be pandering or commodifying these political movements but actually making long lasting changes where everybody is well, truly welcome. At your theme parks businesses. Yes, I hope. I. Hope I hope that. I. Hope that Disney is. I hope they're progressing towards a more openly. Open stance on where they stand because I think they're ultimately their they're conservative corporation that has a vested interest in making everyone happy and obviously with with these types of social issues. That's not enough. and. So I think the I think them hosting the first pride parade last year at Disneyland Paris was great. But that's also Paris like it's not the US. and. So I hope that they I. I. would hope that they start to bring you those. Approaches, and then I'd say, don't realize that there's not a bunch of. Anti Gay people in Europe or antiabortion people or or pro-christian people that are just trying to control everything. Well, anti vaccines the Anti. Max Irs Mask. Kerr's and we had there. A very big anti mask demo days ago in. Berlin. So Choose that's. Chilling. Yeah, it was. It was Yeah it was really intriguing. Germany don't be. So Nazi this time around a America's got. Pretty. Well, the beginning of the pandemic and then the things have changed. Yes. Right. They're doing. They're doing from what I understand that the situation they're still doing relatively. Well, I mean bruins been pretty safe But I think I think a lot of the anti mask things based on what I've read in like what I seem to now It's mainly far right like Neo Nazi groups. That are kind of stoking these flames I believe it is called a high a hygiene protest, but it doesn't take much looking into their platform, what they're talking about to see what the actual ideas promoting so. Wash nasty either people. I would imagine Germany that are most at risk for forgetting covert people living in close proximity intergenerational housing immigrants much like here the United States and you know unfortunately, those are often the target of the alternative right people They really are very anti immigrant and anti poor. So they will you know. They really in some ways, they want these people to die. Though. Fortunate so Sad that they didn't give Jaffar more lines in Aladdin didn't get a song did it he didn't get. He had a song. They got they got it out. You know but he kinda gets. Intentional right they didn't want the villain to have his own theme so he has to sing. Aladdin. Prince Ali happens to be merely A. and. It's the kind of ROB's Jaffar of being sympathetic character. Yeah I mean it's in. That's definitely early Disney villains. Lake early Disney. Villains played into this This European archetype. which unfortunately also has roots in anti-semitism that like the noble heroes are the ones who sing and the villains don't sang. So even the idea of villain song was was Disney Dabbled in it like in Pinocchio there is there's the villain song. But it's not as much of a poor unfortunate souls things. So yes, that's also another thing that Howard Ashman brought to the table was so brilliant and I. Think you know the song, any songs involving Gusts Don's character Is stands apart everything else. Just, no for muscle chasers aside GUSTON's character is imbued with certainly You know. In the animated film, he's indirectly in love with him in the live action. It's very clear that he is gay and and you know spoiler alert turns the tables and. The good side because you can't have a gay character now in a Disney movie that doesn't become good at the end. When he discovers true love he was chasing the bad love with. Found a good man and now he's like helping the oppressed. People fight the townspeople and and how does the what does the beauty and the beast eventually end? They become the beast becomes a human and then about a decade later, the townspeople rise in revolt and behead bell and the king and all the people. Another about beauty and the beast and Howard Ashman and quizzes that there was a cut song from the film that's in the director's cut that wasn't mentioned the documentary but I think it functions similarly to like humiliate the boy the cut sun from Aladdin. Uncle Humid. Again where all of the the household objects. fantasize about about when they are able to become human again, and there is definitely a sucker punch subtext of a man passing away from AIDS related complications writing that. and. Certainly with Howard Disney forever will be. indebted to the the sacrifice that. If you're dying from HIV and AIDS. You know a lot of people just like I'm GonNa go move to Palm Springs or Florida and. Drink drinks and enjoy the last few years of my life credit card bills and loans that will never have to pay back. There are so many people who did that and Howard Ashman reacted by like I love musical theater I love this work I. Have An in a lifetime opportunity to change the world. And he moved to California briefly and then so you know wrote these amazing songs and as he was sitting at Disneyland, watched the parade and here comes. Of Sebastian and bell singing under the sea. And he just turned into tears because he realized. What he had done and how he had how his work changed the world and I hope that everybody somehow. is able to realize some day that they're able their work their lives have have meaning and and have changed the world for better or for other people as well. And Jake? I. I think you're videos do really great job at speaking to a lot of these complicated fascinating topics. For people who want to follow you on on Youtube what's what's the name of the channel is it is it? What is it a? Stream sound. Yeah. So they've just youtubecom stream sounds. If you if you let me. Guess youtubecom. Slash. Video and you find it. Yeah. Linked almost video to in the show notes for this and people can follow that as well. You have been going through your channel looking at Disney stuff you have really good stuff. Thank you so much Jason talking to us I don't know what time it is there and Berlin. About. Nine, thirty. Other Donald, Kebab standstill up there. What the donor Kebab stands when I love Berlin in one, thousand, nine, hundred, seven in the summer and it was. Everywhere. There were donor Kebab stands and that's what we lived on basically. Where were you? Berlin I was staying in the attic of the Cooler Theater which I don't believe exists anymore. But we were doing we were doing a a musical called food. which was a update of Hansel and Gretel where the witch is Martha Stewart character who runs a organic whole foods supermarket and Hansel and Gretel our employees, and at the very end the musical there's a splashing scene where they chop her up into little bits. But I they cover up mayonnaise ketchup mustard chocolate syrup whipped green potato chips, and a cherry on top. And then they chop parts and grinder and seller seller body as organic meat. On my left Germans were like boy America is so crazy. That's basically like that was one of the last musicals I wrote which you have October fest coming up soon right? Yeah September. Yeah. Lived in southern Germany. Garmisch Partenkirchen. Back in the nineties for a year and a half it was really. Fun and beautiful but I drank. So I had to leave. The. country. Cow. I worked in a resort that was run by the Department of Defense for Gi's and. It was just I worked with about one hundred and twenty Americans between the age of eighteen and thirty and every night it was a different par and it was just like Oh my God delivers cannot survive here. missed. The Alps miss the mountains. Jake thank you so much for talking to us. Oh Yeah. No. Thank you so much for having me. This is great. You have a wonderful day and thank you for being our guest. By. Jake. Jake belly simone lives in Berlin. Germany. You can follow their youtube accounted dream song video stream sounds sounds video. Yeah. Let's be. podcast to that, my niece loved the those musical so much that we were sitting around on dinner table I would take the salt and pepper Shaker and be like Hey Victoria they've come to live and I would take the salt and pepper shakers dance like their characters and beauty and the beast. And she'd be like you're making fun of me. She really liked the Little Mermaid though did she? Well, she liked. Her favorite Disney princesses jasmine off because she looks like her, and so she she the the beauty and the beast spoke to the relationship of her parents. Fought a lot. Her boyfriend did look like Aladdin they boyfriend looks like Aladdin you know. So they were there have a real life, Princess Jasmine and Aladdin and family. Can Show? Yeah, she even had a tiger just like she very much. Sympathizes with those characters and the those musicals were really just a Howard ashman ordinary radical. Folks, I can't recommend highly enough to watch Disney plus to watch. Howard, when I first came across I thought Oh documentary and Howard the duck cloth. This Howard Ashman faster. I think you're gonNA like this and you're like, Oh, I was like we have to musical podcast about this. Yeah. Because it's just such such brought so much joy to our life and I'm in little shop of horrors is one of my all time favorite musicals like I said, I saw three times in the movie theater, and now we just watched it the other day probably fifteen to twenty times at least Mec- more like even even that song like you know it's like he's begging to suck is dead. Feed me all your com must be fresh. Be There are so many double entendre. No, one fox like Gustov no-one sucks like Guston once Dick is incredibly thick as US John, you know he had a whole list of dirty lyrics. And the funny thing about it is like you know the the lyrics do easily sound like knack is fiqh. Dick is thick like he. He's a lyricist. With words and you would find words where he could sneak in. You know things that speak to the lgbtq people that were watching. Static? Yeah and to me it's like that's what's so great about you know the work of Sesame Street is that it's not just speaking to children's needs. It's speaking to the adults that are there and everybody enjoys it, and you know innocence is preserved but also the needs of adults. Innocence is preserved. down. Once again, neck incredibly thick as Gaston. I. WanNa remind folks. We can do this podcast without your support. If you're not a plus member yet sign up today at feast a fun dot com slash plus because you're a contribution to the show is what makes this show happen access to thousands of legendary podcast go into the fund legends by going to face dot com slash plus and of course, we're on Patriot Patriot dot com slash feast fun. Check us out there instagram and Youtube and everywhere find things are found just search for a feast of fun we'll be there. Thank you so much for listening. For No mark fillion by by. Unnerving for a servant WHO's not serving, he's not born without a soul to wet on. Those days when we? saw newly those days are. Long. Getting so much more than dusting. Exercise chums US on skis. More. Steve's we just lay around. On. Fat and Lazy you in. Guest? Sakes? Missed being bored and thank. In Spanish. That spot meanwhile, the students wing. That small. Company. On guest. Orioles Ray we. Just On the. Soon Since we. Will. Candlelight.

Howard Ashman Disney Little Mermaid Aladdin Howard Youtube Disney Alan Menken United States New York City Horrors Disney Ashman Howard Ashman David Geffen AIDS Disney Renaissance partner jake Disney Ashman Oklahoma Europe Hans Christian Andersen
WDW Radio # 599 - Interview with Don Hahn About Telling the Story of Howard Ashman on Disney+

The WDW Radio Show - Your Walt Disney World Information Station

1:07:19 hr | 4 months ago

WDW Radio # 599 - Interview with Don Hahn About Telling the Story of Howard Ashman on Disney+

"Ladies and gentlemen, boys, and I am Sean Egan and these are some important safety instructions for years and they swim all over. You know, Kermit meme frog what is it foreign? We're going to need a couple of more seconds to get this gig swing in right off every man's and King and everything's are plowed. Once again. It's topsy-turvy wage to my pocket. How you doing? Hello. Nice camera off. Hello, my friend and welcome to the W W radio show off your Walt Disney World Information Station. I am your host Lou mongello. And this is show number 599 and I'm here. Once again, not only to help to have the best possible Disney vacation packages, but I also want to bring you some of that Disney Magic wherever you are with the podcast live video broadcast on Facebook every Wednesday night blog Special Events books audio tours a few surprises and more whether it's your first time visiting or if you've been to the parks hundreds of times, if you're planning your next vacation or love the history details secret stories and people behind the magic. There's something in the show for you because each week. I'm going to take you from the parks to the screens and everything in between if you're a new listener. Thank you. Welcome. Please go back and check out. Summer all the past episodes for interviews toptenreviews and more can subscribe to the podcast in apple podcasts and find everything else at wwe.com. Please join me this week as I sit down with legendary producer and director Don Han that his latest work or should I say gift the incredibly moving feature-length documentary Howard now streaming on Disney plus we discuss the Genesis of the project creative choices process challenges emotions music and more. We always talk about the meaning and the lessons learned from this incredible heartfelt Journey. Then at the extra last Walt Disney World trivia question of the week and I'll pose a new challenge for your chance to win a Disney project package. Then stay tuned to the end of the show as I'll have more information including an announcement and reveal of something actually the first of many things that I've been working on for over a year off and I'm ready to share with you. Of course, I'll also have more information updates you are voicemails and more so sit back. Relax, and enjoy this week's episode over the w w radio show. As a Lyricist last great place to do musicals and animations combination of Howard ashman's talent and the wall Tuesday name was a homerun waiting to happen. That was coming out of Howard's ten lyrical it was just unbelievable quiet. You know what I mean? So quiet. Yeah. I want to know in Lincoln had captured the imagination of a generation. We knew something really special was happening. What we didn't know was that in nine months Howard would be gone and Howard said, we really have to have a serious talk. I'm sick berth in animation history a musical history tolerance. Mark is indelible mean. Powers gift was so strong and his life is so bright that it has not diminished over the years. The name Don Han is synonymous with exceptional storytelling. He started working animation for Disney Legend. Willie write them in as an assistant director on The Fox and the Hound and worked on numerous other films including the Great Mouse Detective The Black Cauldron and who framed Rodger rabbit wage. He's produced some of the most successful animated films in recent history including the Lion King Hunchback of Notre Dom and Beauty and the Beast with beauty being the first animated film home to ever be nominated for the Oscar for best picture and oh by the way, all three of those films were also adapted to Stage musicals his directorial debut in his office mentary waking Sleeping Beauty shed light on Disney's animation Renaissance in the 80s and 90s. And by the way is available on Disney plus and that story in many ways continues. And expands with Howard the story of Howard Ashman, which is also now available on Disney plus and which Dawn also produced. I've previously interviewed Don along with Peter Schneider off on show 160 about waking Sleeping Beauty, and then again, sat down with Don and person on show 369 to talk about his film career including work on Disney nature and Maleficent. You also share thoughts on the success of films like Frozen and Tangled the importance of Music the transition many films have made to Broadway and how other animated films of transition to life action. We also discuss what inspires us story and much more and as Howard debuts on Disney plus this week and having watched it myself already more than once. I was excited and sincerely honored to welcome back the one and only Mister Don Han. It's so good to see you again. Thank you. Thank you for having me on it's always good to see you and first name. First congratulations on on really what is an extraordinary project. I had an opportunity to watch Howard before we we spoke today fortunately early enough time to wipe away some of the the tears and the happy tears and the sad tears from me. So I'm really excited to chat with you today. Oh, thank you. That means a lot. I appreciate it. So. I know you obviously are are a huge fan of documentaries, especially those that shine a light much as this does on people who are as you like to call sort of hero the Arts and I want to start by talking about 2009's waking Sleeping Beauty, which I believed is required viewing for anybody who is not just a fan of Walt Disney feature animation, but really bad animation history itself and while Howard certainly isn't a you know, a quote unquote sequel per say it certainly seems to be a continuation of the foundation that waking Sleeping Beauty song. Lead going to connect the dots for us from waking Sleeping Beauty to Howard and then how and when this film came to be? Yeah happily. So Thursday, it is connected somewhat to waking the Sleeping Beauty partially because that story is about the the the Golden Age which is not my words so much about what people have become too, But the Golden Age I was thinking this morning and we never walked around saying anyway, I would a great golden age right now, isn't it? A terrific Renaissance? You know, you don't you're just trying to make movies and do the best you can offer but certainly how it was a big part of that and you know, it was a combination and and we say this I think in a way consuming Beauty was kind of a perfect storm of a young group of men and women who wanted to show me that they could make films in the style of Walt Disney as good as Walt Disney or in whether we did or not as kind of another conversation, but we really wanted to you got a group of really really an exact time. Gives it came in with Michael Eisner different katzenberg Peter Schneider. And Peter was my my colleague and producer on waking Sleeping Beauty. And that was interesting cuz Peters a character he is. Wow. I really have grown to like him a lot. He's was ahead of Animation during that time in the eighties and nineties and he brought a lot to the party and really raw talent in a brought a lot of openness about critiquing each other's work and and then in the category of the small world, he was the company manager on a Little Shop of Horrors in New York when Ellen and Howard were having this huge yet at the Orpheum Theater in New York. So he was very close to Howard. So all those things kind of combined to start to work on waking Sleeping Beauty wage what that story became was more about Palace Intrigue and the relationships between Roy and Michael and Jeffrey and and the kind of rise and fall of you know of that era wage. So it wasn't completely about Howard but people responded so well to the Howard portion and I realized you know, this story really hasn't been told. There's no bios. There's no books. Just nothing about Howard really aside from a girl blogs that your sister Sarah runs and she's a writer a great writer. So it's a lot of material but nothing that's out there for the world. And so I really thought that Iraq had that material from waking Sleeping Beauty and I thought I'd have so much more that's not in waking Sleeping Beauty and about five years ago four or five years ago. I had lunch with Sarah with Howard sister and off on an Impulse kind of like you buy a package of chewing gum at the checkout counter. I said, I'm going to make a film about Howard and and she said, oh, that's so nice. He was very polite and later told me she didn't quite believe me off but I I I I I knew I had to which is odd way to say it but I had to because I felt like I knew him I knew his story a little bit. I knew where the footage wage. As I knew his family and admired him and Helen really well and I thought at least I could pull the components together and and try to tell it I didn't know if it was a short subject or what but I am so once you start looking at everything we had two hours of material. I thought I think there's a movie in here and it's a great story. It's a story of as you hinted at artistic heroism, which I am I love making movies like that. I love telling stories about Tyrus Wong or about Mary Blair or those types of people so that that was kind of a Genesis of it all and once I am drinking it together and looking at it. I just thought what a remarkable man and with thirty years distance now, I think we can put him in a context a little bit more about what he means to musical theater and animation. Yeah because it's it's it's such an overwhelming undertaking to try and Tell, you know to author someone else's life story, especially when they're not with us anymore to help contribute to it, you know, and so as I was watching and I was something about this and like how to you know, how do you say I'm the right person to do this and this is the the right time to do it as well. Well, I never assumed in a way contributed never assumed I was the director. We actually interviewed a lot of Directors for waking Sleeping Beauty some really fine amazing documentarians home. And in the end it was Peter who said you know, you just do this and at the time I I had been directing some documentaries. I was Reinventing myself a little bit. I was I was I am not to get too much into psychotherapy, but it was really trying to Envision another chapter in my life after animation. I had or animation and still do and I love the films that are being made now by Thursday in Pixar and other Studios, but I wanted a new challenge so that that was almost a accident kind of slipping into that and and since then I've just fall in love with a medium of choice telling stories in documentary form. So you're looking at all that footage. I did not know how it as well as I thought I did and I think we've all experienced that you work with people and you think you know off We really don't so I knew Howard story on the surface. But once you start talking and digging through the archives and we really went on a treasure hunt to find an audio and radio interviews. And anything we could you find a really interesting talented vulnerable God, I you know, he was afraid of like many creative Spirits afraid of humiliation unsure of what he was working on sometimes but then hand-in-glove with that he would make these amazing Braves leaps up empty, you know, like who else would take fifties girl group rock and roll and pair it with the Rodger Corman monster movie Howard would do that or take off a precious Danish fairytale The Little Mermaid and pair it with the rest of fairy and reggae Caribbean music, you know, so those kinds of mashups log And annotations, we really natural for Howard. So I love that not only has a brilliant guy, but I can tell the story about his Humanity his vulnerability. And of course the climax of that page was his HIV diagnosis. You know, it was sort of step back for a second because I think the process of creating a film like this which is obviously not one where it's you know, Talking Heads and you doing interviews but that process of gathering not just the stories but the photos and videos had to not only be incredibly time-consuming, but I have to assume that not everything that you found would make it in. I mean do you go in with a set of mental storyboards like an animated feature or or how do you we've all these elements together to craft not just a compelling but as the end result shows and Incredibly emotionally moving film as well. Well, it's it's a process and the start is just pulling good collaborators. So we had an amazing editor and Steven. Yeah. Wow and a great producer. I've worked since going back to Fantasia. 2000. Laurie corn cables is a Disney Animation alumni. We started the Library of Congress and you gather all that information off and then you put all the clothes up on the line. You just look at it all and get a sense of what our key moments and then I look for my spokespeople. I knew early on I didn't want to give us a narrator. I didn't want to have old guys reminiscing. I think that's Lazy in a way, I I wanted to have this most people people who knew Howard personally, so I didn't even want critics or or experts in theater or you know, people like that I wanted to cuz assist in his partner Bill and people who could speak to him on a on a fairly human level and not not make a puff piece about him Howard doesn't need a puff piece. You know, he's home work speaks for itself. So that was the Genesis of it all and and I was lucky because his family and close friends were were cooperative for the most part time. We went up to Sarah his sister's house in Upstate New York and spent a day scanning old family photo albums from Alan Menken sent us photos and and home audio. We have two hundred or so audio tapes that are right rehearsal tapes, you know, an Ellen and Howard or or Howard and Marvin how much would work together they have a little tape recorder on top of the piano so you can log Them working or arguing or you know kind of sorting through a moment where Maybe the lyrics aren't written yet, but they have an idea for a song and those are interesting to me. So you start to form up what you want to do with the film. Yes. It had to be biography. But I also wanted to be instructive. I wanted to have people walk away with a sense of why Howard was the way he was dead and also walk away with a little bit of his craft. You know, how did he approach this? How did he look at a movie like eating the Beast and decide where songs may go and with a song should be so that starts to indicate a direction and then and then literally you shop for material that illustrates that then the best part of a film is when could you stop directing it and the movie starts telling you what it wants and I don't mean that in some sort of weird metaphysical way, but it really happens, you know, and it happens on any movie film starts to turn off. Q and say well, I know you're trying to do this but I really want to do that. And so you start to go. Oh I get it. It's it's a little more personal of a story or things with dawn on me. Like, you know this house that Howard and his partner Bill were building in Upstate New York was really symbolic of a life that they never could lead together. So let's use the house and you know, so the film starts to tell you what it wants and and that's really a great time cuz it kind of lets you off the hook. It's a director in it and it gives you a a partner literally and so that issue with great collaborators great friends that I could call in and we were just remembering the other day that we actually tested this film on a Disney cruise ship and that may sound odd, but we went on a Disney Vacation Club cruise with lots of great Disney fans. And we screened the movie. This has been over two years ago cuz I wanted an audience response and I thought well it'll be safe cuz we're away from Wi-Fi and internet out in the middle of the high seas and we can get a good reaction. And and we did we got and it was any reaction that was you know favorable but there were moments when the audience was bored or you know, whatever so we were able to make some rash actions and you know had a really great loyal kind of just the audience to help us, you know, as you were talking about Gathering all of this together. I have to imagine that as wonderful it was it was probably also difficult in some respects to sit down with his family and his partner his friends to some degree because it is so emotional and you can hear that the thing I really that really struck me was how you can feel and hear and sense the emotion without seeing anybody's face as they're they're talking about it. Yeah, I this was the discovery that I still make which is I think sometimes the theater of the mind is more powerful than we think it was intimidating sometimes to sit down with with Bill Howard's partner with Alan Menken and hear their stories because you're asking them to be very personal about what they've experienced part of. The reason I didn't want to film was I I wanted to transport you as an audience member back to that time. So I wanted you to be there literally like someone like we did in Mississippi Beauty and that actually helps because without a camera and lighting and hair and makeup and all the things that the camera crew brings to a situation people relax more and after five minutes, they forget wage or even being recorded so we can literally sit down and Big Easy chairs with these people and talk for a while and it allowed them to open up and and be more dead. Vulnerable for lack of a better word about what their feelings were and and that's what humanizes Howard and end of the people around him is we all share these feelings, you know, we all share a sense of wonder at his talent or lost at his illness and those are the kind of interviews that I really look for and there's something that I love about doing those interviews. Maybe I'm a closet therapist, but I love hearing people's inner feelings because we don't share that enough and and and so I was I was really privileged to sit with the spokespeople in this movie whether it was you know, Alan or or Sarah or whoever katzenberg and be able to hear what they had to say and and it very much comes true. There's a there's a wonderful sense of authenticity and honesty and look not everybody is just sitting there just you know going on about how wonderful Alan was and actually so much of the movie which dog I loved Andrew almost wasn't expecting was is Howard telling his own story in his own words because he was not just a great, you know songwriter. But but such a great Storyteller and the story is that he's able to tell you know, as he's recording it obviously realized it's going to be the service life is not just about his work and his talent and his legacy but his personal Journey his personal battles as well. And and obviously one of the most impactful parts of the film is looking back at his illness in his past life that moment that he discovers that he's hiv-positive and the choices I was trying to think about that, you know actually watched that that section again, I went back and watched it again because I thought about the choices that you had to make in terms of taking probably what little you had in terms of photos and videos of that time and that moment and then sharing that that pivotal. Yep. that night at the 92nd Street y Yeah, it's thank you for noticing that it was it's frustrating sometimes because you can always find something to illustrate what you're trying to say. Usually there's a photo or some footage you can use them. But we discovered in Bill discovered that that the night of the terrific presentation Howard Allen gave about little Little Shop of Horrors at 52nd Street Y, which is a terrific institution in in New York City was the David Howard was diagnosed and Bill was you know in shock and said she can't do this. Obviously. We'll just stay home and hard. So now I'm going to go do it we booked it. They're expecting us. Revealed so much to me about Howard's acceptance of what was happening the shock of being diagnosed with what was said that time a death sentence, you know, we're off we're lucky now that there are maybe not a cure but certainly treatment for its victims thanks to people like, dr. Falchi who is still in the news was a key contributor to walk a lot of the therapies that we knew use now for AIDS victims at the time that wasn't the case. So it really was a time when you were saying goodbye to so many of your friends and colleagues because of it and Howard certain wage said goodbye to people so we get to the 92nd Street y Laurie korngiebel that might reduce your calls up to 92nd Street y now, we didn't videotape anything. We don't have anything. We don't even a still photograph of Howard that night and and then after a couple of phone calls, they said, you know, we finally found an audiotape somebody taped it and we thought you I can't believe that can you send it to us and they did wrong? And we listened and it was you can hear it in Howard's voice. He's his usual self. He's funny. He's clever. He's sarcastic but there's a tiredness in his voice later on when the moderator asked him, you know what the future of the Broadway musical is and there's an exhaustion in his voice from years of you know, writing for Broadway. It just started working with Disney animation and it was at a Crossroads and it was some of the most revealing tape and the movie and I had nothing to illustrate it with so all I got in the end. We're still photographs of empty chairs. And again, that was a it's it's it's Hitchcock. It's the theater of the mind. It's counting on the audience and Trust in the audience will fill in the black for you that hearing Howard and seeing an empty chair symbolizes where he was headed. And what's that going to be enough? And and thankfully it was we sort of all kinds of solutions. We thought oh God. Should we animate something? Should we do a spectacular computer Graphics affect here. Should we you know, whatever and thank God for human beings because we can fill in the blanks and the audience is is smart and and can really appreciate that moment with very little they're the same with the end of the movie which deals sad life is Howard's death. There's nothing to illustrate that there's no film. There's no footage. There is no audio. All we have is Alan told me the story of him hearing a but in a in a credible piece of audio and I just Illustrated it with shots of the sun rising over Manhattan and I felt like that will bring us, you know, and and and Trust of the audience to fill in the emotion of the moment and it was it was brilliant. It was it was it was something in khong. Haunting about that but you're right. It allowed us to sort of put all those pieces together, but looks like you mentioned Alan a number of times and like any film music is so important to the telling of the story and I had a chance years ago to interview Alan Menken back on show 196 and we talked a lot about his relationship with Alan. I can't imagine anyone else other than a month and composing the incredible emotional score for for this film. And had we had no plans to do that. You know, it's a documentary. We it was an independent documentary, you know, I started out without any commitment from any studio and I want to keep it for a while until I could gather my thoughts about what it should be and then once it was together and and Justice before Disney be came on board. I sent it to Alan right before or holidays. This has been two years ago. Also three years maybe and I just wanted him to see it. You know, it's his story as much as Howard's. I want him to see it. I wanted him to flag anything that felt wrong and and then the unexpected thing happened is he called back on Monday and said, you know, I saw it and I have to score this movie and I said, I can't afford you. You know, these these movies for Millions documentaries of all kinds are made on micro budgets, you know, it's it's a little golden age of documentaries right now, but at that time and even now these movies are not hundred million dollar movies, they're kind of hundred dollar movies. So yep. I don't care. This is a chance for me. Alan said to kind of pay my musical tribute to Howard. So you did so I sent him all the elements and over the holidays that year. He wrote this amazing kind of piano track to a company at all. And then one of our close collaborators Allen and mine both is a composer named Chris bacon took who took that down and and produced and arranged it into what you hear in the film. And so, you know music can transcend dialogue so many times and express so many wonderful things and Ellen's gift is certainly doing that. So, can you imagine being a director of a film and having Ellen says say he wants to you know supporting her movie is a tremendous gift and and was in the end. It's just such a huge contribution to the story. I was telling and and it's a story obviously that that is so important to you it clearly started and continues as a passion project and and I got this game. You hinted before that you as well as you knew Howard you learned and possibly understood a lot more about Howard from his own processes to you mentioned the self esteem and mindset and maybe even fears as a result of doing this project. What? What did you learn? What did you learn and sort of take away from you know crash this this incredible documentary. Well how it's a good teacher, you know, he famously came into Disney Animation within the first few months and and sat down and did that kind of lecture during Little Mermaid wage of which there's a bit in this movie in another bit too in a way. He's he Community where he just went through and said, okay, here's the the the art of the American Broadway musical which is a very American art form. Is that way because characters break into song when they can't express their emotions in any other way. So you're so in love where you're so hateful or you're so envious or you're so happy that you can't do anything about it. And then these are the typical moments you sing about it when you are introducing characters using about it when you are expressing what you want in life when the villains expressing what he or she wants life and so he laid out not only the songs from Little Mermaid, but kind of the Paradigm of what a structure of musicals would be a structure that we've we've followed ever since And that structure wasn't unique to Howard. It's just he was a student of it and and studied Lerner and loewe and Rodgers and Hammerstein and studied American musical theater and knew it like the back of his hand. So he was able to walk each that to us. So revisiting that was great at also realizing and learning that Howard was a master of adaptation. He wrote some original pieces wage and and they are wonderful but adapting Tina Turner story adapting a Little Mermaid. God bless you, mr. Rosewater that Kurt Vonnegut novel and adapting that into a musical. He really strived on taking someone else's core material and saying, you know, I I really love this for what it is. I love Rodger Corman because it's so corny and cheesy low-budget and I think I can do something with that and then he does and he always brings to it a new aspect a new idea that helps gives me that helps dead. Shed new light on it. And so whether that's a musical Choice like Caribbean music for a mermaid or a casting Choice. He always does these mash-ups of style make it a really fresh new idea and that's something I never really thought about before I you know, I've I've sat in meetings with you and I've worked with him but to see him do that on Project after project after project was really interesting and showed a lot about what his approach was. He didn't feel like I have to be completely original here every thought I put down has to be from me only it was the opposite it was how can I take a Pastiche? How can I take someone else's style? How can I take something that's iconic in literature or music and adapt it and use it to my own purposes and that was brilliant because it brings a familiarity to it. We sit down and listen to the score of mermaid or a little shop and yep. Miliar with you know, 50's girl group Greece kind of soundtracks were familiar with a Caribbean music. And so there's a there's a warmth in an accessibility to it already before you've songs. And then of course, I'm somebody writes these clever lyrics so however was much much more than a Lyricist. He was a dramatist director a book writer and a teacher and we were awfully the beneficiaries of all that, you know, you talked to very quickly you talked about how there's the you know the song for the introduction of the hero when the hero's journey and the villain I notice too that there's also a song about food and get this thing's do so I have to imagine we were very much alike, you know from Les Paul songs to To Be Our Guest he always through a little bit of food in his in his films as well. Yeah, one of my favorite songs from God bless you. Mr. Rosewater is a song called Cheese Nips as a host of a party who invites all these people over and no matter how much of a beautiful spread this Society woman puts out. All these people in her Town go immediately for the Cheese Nips. And and so the whole Eric is like what's the deal of Cheese Nips? You know, no matter what I do. They want the Cheese Nips mixed with Kraft sandwich spread and it's just so delightful. I put it in the movie. You know, I just like this is how hard it is best. You know what we talked about what you took away, you know you as the creator of the filmon and the crashing of the film. What kind of lessons do you want or do you think maybe viewers are going to take away from Howard with the film and Howard the man? Well, I I hoped to humanize Howard's so that we can relate to him and that's maybe I'd choose from forty years of being a Disney and and loving Walt Disney's movies all that Waltz tried to do and how we're trying to do was to help create characters that we can relate wage. The audience so that you see a character whether it's some per the rabbit or symbol or whoever that you can say. Yeah. I was once that child I was once or I have a niece that's like that or whatever wage as brilliant as Howard was I wanted to somehow humanize who he was that he he didn't go to Yale. He didn't have a great deal of privilege in the theatrical Community very nice middle-class upbringing in Baltimore. Um, yeah, he was gay at a time when being gay was not something that you know, you would bring out in the public in the seventies or eighties. I think we're a little more enlightened now about that. So I just want to talk about that. What are the challenges of a human being who happens to be a brilliant human being and what did he bump up against? You know, here's this dark kind of middle-class a Jewish guy from Baltimore why him and and to follow that and say, you know, he didn't go to Yale. He went to Indiana University. Well, that's not very special and then he moved to New York. By himself and and start a little money. I'm seeing theater in a second floor above a donut shop. Well a very special and and you start to hopefully kind of pull the layers back and see that it was his persistence. It was his uh, yes, he was very clever, but he was also a student of all that so he could he could cite chapter and verse, you know, he would sit down the Beauty and the Beast song. I think there's a there's a song to be done and they should dance because in fairy tales dancing is the consummation of love, you know, you can't have sex scenes. So you have dances and then he would cite things like the page, you know or g g or, you know have all these references some of which sent us home looking in our encyclopedias at the time cuz we just come here we didn't get it lines like in the in the month on screw your courage to the sticking-place or sticking post or whatever. It's like, oh that's from Macbeth. We would go. Oh, yeah. Yeah Macbeth. So here you have a man operating on a month. A level of talent but our huge level of hard work and preparation and then flexing that muscle in preparation into his craft. Well as an audience, I think we can look at that and say oh that's something that's inspiring. That's something that I can do. You know, I'm from a middle-class family. I have obstacles in my life. I might be gay or or off a person of color or you know, whatever and you have obstacles sort of Howard and I think that kind of human story really is something I hope the audience can take away from it and I really got the sense that you left off so much up to the audience to figure out or decide or or take away themselves, you know, there's a part where there's a discussion about. You know, how much if any way of of Harold's personal life. Did he put into some of the lyrics for the songs that he wrote and you left in there, you know that there were differing opinions differing opinions and let viewers There's judge for themselves whether Howard was really showing his world through his lyrics and and you know at the very least you were able to change subtly bring light to certain topics that forget children that we as adults might not recognize ourselves. Yeah. Yeah, and and that was another thing Howard did I mean he bill says it in the movie. He didn't make political theater. He wasn't an AIDS activist necessarily he was certainly sympathetic to all the things that's going on politically during that era but he was a dramatist he was trying to tell stories and we never had conversations about his illness in the room. We never talked about the AIDS crisis or politics. He was always about the movie and always Mazda inevitably you're a you're a product of your times, you know, we will and the 80s and 90s was a time of you know change and wage and in Howard was a product of that so did some of that work its way into his work. Yeah, probably but probably not consciously, I guess in in making a movie. There's no way you can either put forward a strong point of view. You can do the Rodger Moore kind of documentaries, which I love that are putting forward a point of view about what's going on and an issue. There's another kind of a documentary wage. Yes, I favor which is more of a journalistic point of view where you put forward the facts as you see them or collect them and let the audience be the juror in the trial so to speak and I like them because life isn't black and white. I like the gray areas in cuz I think it's more representative of the life and sort of put forward points of view to say. Yeah the Mob song from Beauty and the Beast it's about the AIDS crisis. And the Beast is Howard. Well, some people feel strongly that way Dan Rather the journalists felt that way in Rota op-ed piece and then Los Angeles Times about that how our sister said. No, that's just who he he didn't do that. So that's interesting. You know, what why why a debate about that but there is so to be a journalist and put those fast forward and just say here's the here's what people are saying and you as an audience can decide one way or the other people. Do you know people do people even going back to wake the Sleeping Beauty? You can put out there. You know, here's Michael Eisner. Here's here's where Disney here's Jeffrey katzenberg. Who is the hero whose the villain? Well, you know what? There isn't one. There's there's aspects of heroism and villandry and in everybody I suppose and and I think that's what makes us interesting as human beings and as characters on the screen. We're not black and white. We are all these Shades of Grey and so I look for trading that in a film like this to be able to say here's here's what people are saying about Howard. What do you think and you know, obviously the film it's a slow reveal on a slow burn, you know talking about Howard is illness and and his decision to reveal at a time that he felt comfortable to people what he was going through because so much of it was was wage unknown to so many people are you in all you know able to talk about your experience in terms of when you learned Alan was sick and and his maybe wage The change in his attitude from being whether it going from anger to fear or acceptance how that sort of maybe changed over time. Well when I started working with him, he had just finished a Little Mermaid and and it was becoming a huge hit. You know, he was the Press junket was really successful. I met him for the first time in Orlando and then very soon after in New York. We were working on getting the beast in London and it wasn't coming together very well. And so we may flew to Orlando to meet up with Howard mail and during the mermaid press junket and just try to pitch them the idea of getting involved in in Beauty and the Beast so long in in that became clear that we had to work in Upstate New York at Howard's location and we were naive we honestly thought and it wasn't cuz we were wage block it out or anything else. We just thought oh, he's being a diva. He just won an Oscar and you know, this mermaid is so successful. Okay, so we picked up everybody and I got, you know hotel rooms for everybody at the beautiful. Residence Inn in Fishkill New York, and we said there's an upstairs conference room there, you know the kind of conference room where you'd have a sales meeting about boilers or something like that and I brought it off your piano brought in Howard brought in Donuts every morning and Alan drove over and we would sit there and work through the story and sometimes we would pitch boards and say okay. Here's the opening bell goes to town. She buys a book home of operations get started or you know, or walk through moments and then we would just Workshop those all day long, you know, like we we had this characteristic my character called mrs. Chamomile, and eventually we thought it was too hard for kids to pronounce. So we changed it to mrs. Potts, but she was a character from Upstairs Downstairs. We saw, you know kind of this beloved page maternal character Lumiere was was called shawndel in the first versions of his songs. So things evolved and changed and moved. We recorded meetings and demo things and that process we were still unaware of Howard. The dancing was wrong after a while. It was harder and harder for him. He went to meet off and then it became obvious. He was losing weight and and, you know wearing suspenders and just looking not like himself. So that news was sobering home and I think it's like with any of us, you know, if you were were unfortunately living through a endemic now where if you hear someone comes down with covideo, you're like shocked about it and and she can't help but wisdom the best and and you know, it's it's a shocking reveal and it was at the time but we still worked, you know, we still Dovan we still worked with him and still finished a movie even though he never saw the commercial movie. We still work through all the songs and had a good sense of what it was before he passed so, you know part of it was just not even on our part and and then when you do find out You can a funny way. He became somewhat gentler towards the end of his last somewhat more or less argumentative. He wasn't an argumentative guy, but he was not afraid of expressing his opinion or throwing the occasional ashtray. So he was very clear about what he wanted still was as he got sicker but more gentler but gently about how he expressed himself and obviously we felt a lot of empathy for him and what he must have been going through and now looking back thirty years. It just seems impossible. It's like how did this guy do all this and that lends some here listen to his story on top of it all. Yeah and and how weird does not end in in a in for me. It did not end in a sad way because Howard's work continues to live on in films that he he touched and and live-action and Stage Productions on land and on sea, what do you think a game? You know looking back. We're looking down Howard might say about his legacy and and the things that he created during that time. Um, I don't know. I think he probably would have been self-effacing about it is incredibly proud of little shop and and even more so about made but he was always very like I'm not sure this is that good and you know it gosh I hope the audience likes it, you know with this much distance, who knows what he might say something about it all and I certainly tried not to think about what he might say about making a film about him. So I think he'd be humbled. I think he'd be really humbled by the audience response cuz I know he was about living life little shop opened in all these countries around the world within five years. There was a movie about little shop and there was a big companies playing all over the you know behind the Iron Curtain at the time. There was a company opening engine and just have this huge success, you know about this little story that he hatched in this little man in NC theater. So he was thrilled with that success and and and I think still home Hold by the audience reaction. So I ran across a note in the Library of Congress that he wrote to be read on opening night of a little shop in Tokyo and thank everyone for coming and told them I hope you enjoy the story and perhaps this can finally be a little payback for all the hours that I've enjoyed Godzilla and Rodan movies. So that says a long Bob Howard was well, I think he would be so incredibly like he said not just home alone, but proud just as you should be, you know, the the reviews are starting to come in New York Times critics pick today. I think it is nothing short of required viewing for any fan whether it be of musical theatre of old Disney animation and from a personal level down. I cannot thank you enough for again continuing to not just tell stories in such a remarkable way, but bring to light off. So many of the people who whose work that we might know but we might not necessarily know the people behind it Howard is on Disney plus right now. I cannot recommend it highly enough and I cannot thank you, Don and everybody who helped to put this film together. So thanks to that means a lot to me coming from you. Especially I've always been a a fax, you know what you do? So I appreciate that very much. Thank you so much. It's time for our Walt Disney World trivia question of the week right by to test your knowledge of Walt Disney World History, or see how well you pay attention to the details. Sometimes don't you see here taste or remember if you think you know the answer you can enter via our online form for a chance to win a Disney Prize Package, of course before we get to this mix question will go back review last week's and select our winner. So last week I told you that an attraction almost really a mini Land Based on what Disney film was at one time planned for Italy in Epcot Center. Now first off I explained to you that if that questioned sound familiar, it's because you probably saw it on my Instagram stories or my Instagram posts as I've been telling you I've been doing some daily Disney trivia on my Instagram storm recently, but also moving it over to my post. So on the story is I'll be posting multiple choice questions. And from time to time we'll also be doing posts that allow me to expand a little bit more on some of the details and stories as well as answer some of your questions about the who what when where why and how and the answer to last week's question is Pinocchio does you know that at what time they're actually plans for not just to Pinocchio attraction but a Pinocchio Village in Italy complete with shows attractions, and yes, maybe even a restaurant so it would have been much money. Then a ride with you know, strombolian Tobacco Road, but in fact we would have been treated to an entire Tuscany themed area of Italy. Now there was and still is plenty of room behind the Pavilion. So you never know what the future might hold. I'd be totally curious to know if you would like to see a Pinocchio attraction in Italy or maybe to prefer less characters and movies hi end in this part of the park is Pinocchio for you still relevant enough a post this question in our community on Facebook ask you to enter there and share your thoughts at w w.com slash Community, but last week's winner randomly selected is Bella Jolson, sobella, congratulations use the online form on the site. So I have your shipping address. I will get your prize pack adapter right away if you played last week and didn't win. That's okay. Cuz here's your next chance to enter in this week's Walt Disney World trivia challenge. So this week we're going to go from Italy and Epcot to Liberty Square in Magic Kingdom. One of my favorite lands just to wander explore and really taken so much of the detail guys and both real and imagined history and like many of the lands both in Magic Kingdom and throughout the parks. There are quote unquote real inhabitants that occupy the shops and the whole life and if you look very carefully you might just find where they live work and play so this week. I want you to tell me what is the name of the instructor who gives music and voice lessons by appointment only in Liberty Square. Now you have until Sunday, August 16th at 11:59 p.m. To go to wwe.com click on the 6th podcast there. You'll find the entry form and this week you're playing for my hundred and two ways to save money for not Walt Disney World Book all 7 of my digital audio walking tours of Magic Kingdom all of which by the way still on sale for just $10 to stop on we Dot-com I'm going to send you a WWE vinyl sticker a magic fan cover and a mystery prize from my Personal Collection. I'm in the process of taking a lot of things. I've been collecting for more than four decades. Really that have been just sitting in my closet on my shelves in my garage and the time has come to start sharing them with you who can hopefully have more time space to display them that I do, so I have new auctions every Sunday 9 p.m. Eastern at w w.com. They all start at $1 no reserve and start and end at 9 p.m. Eastern everything from vintage Walt Disney World documents artwork memorabilia collectible have got through Star Wars stuff in there as well. Again. You can find them all at WWE, starting at 9 p.m. Eastern. So that's what one of those going to be pulled from that eBay collection going to go into your mystery Prize Package. So good luck and have fun off. That's going to do it for this week's show. Thank you so much for taking the time to tune in this and every week off. Please be part of the community and conversation. Lots of different ways to do it. You can find out by going to wwe.com slash community and talk about this week's show anything Disney any past episodes Marvel or Star Wars in our Facebook group at w w, I also want to thank some of the members of our community who joined the w w radio Nation family. I sincerely appreciate your love friendship support helping us love being able to give back to you each and every month with different types of rewards and benefits. I want to thank some of the new and long-time members like Dennis Strikeforce. Eleven George Wang a Mac Walters often Roth Russell, Dameron and Daniel Sosa. I sincerely appreciate you and everything that you do to help w w radio if you want to find out how you can only hope the show but get off. Exclusive rewards including scavenger hunts trivia Quest. We have a private Facebook group custom magic band covers low gear t-shirts backpacks care packages from Walt Disney World, exclusive live monthly group video calls Early Access to special events and more. 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If you go there you can find out how that I can help you turn what you love and to what you do come to speak at your event or your conference or your business virtually and hopefully soon as a person work with you in one-on-one calls small group masterminds as well as my momentum weekend workshop and retreat in Walt Disney World and a few other things. I'm working on there as well again. Go check out the new Jumanji website, but back to WWE radio. This site has really been in existence in one form or another with its Beginnings. As long as Disneyworld trivia.com since 2003 and the site has gone under a lot of growth and many many changes in terms of content wage nearly 6,000 blog posts new additions including live video The Dream Team project the running team the nation and lots more and today we're going to turn the page to the next chapter 4, w, w radio and our community as well because some things are new but in many ways they're also going to remain the same because wage today. 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You know, what what does that mean? We're to come from and actually came from when I first started live broadcasting video from my laptop back in 2007 live streaming was very much in its infancy. And at one time somebody asked me at an event who I was talking to on my computer. I was standing there with my laptop and my webcam and my 3-g card and I'm talking back and forth by myself to the computer and when this person asked me at the event who I was talking to I pointed to my laptop off. And refer to the people who are watching their that there's all these people watching inside this box. Well that name stuck and you sort of latched onto it and the Box people were literally and figuratively born at that moment. But I've always said that you know, I only built the clubhouse and you you populated you call it home invite your friends play Cher and live here and that's why I think the name is so appropriate because wherever it may live be it on our Facebook group originally on our discussion forums, or maybe eventually somewhere else you are the community and this is our clubhouse where we actually sort of plant the steak doesn't really matter and with that off the w w radio club house is going to be the new name for our Facebook group. Now look you will always be a member of the Box people you still live in these boxes both in my hands off. My desk and as I go out to the parks and elsewhere, so you'll it's always the Box people but we're going to call it. Now the w w Clubhouse is going to be the new name of the group on Facebook. She can still get to it by going to ww.com slash Community. Then I'll show you all the different ways to be part of the community, but you can go directly there by going to ww, I didn't change the page. So don't worry. There's not going to be any broken links for you. So that's it for now. Anyway, I have a few other irons in the fire and projects. I've been secretly working on a will reveal to you soon. But in the meantime, I want you to know and remember that everything I do I do it for you and I mean that sincerely and it is not a line. That's something that I truly believe and all I ask in return is that you continue to enjoy the show and site and hopefully it brings you happiness and it has a positive impact on you and God. You please pay that forward and spread the word and invite others to join the community listen to the show. And as always most importantly that you choose the good and be a shining flashlights and examples to others. I believe that positivity is contagious. That's why this community is so special because the people who are there are there for the right reasons they're there because their friends invite them into it. I don't Market it. I don't do any sales funnel and think I don't pay for ads and so because I want the people to be there for the right reasons and that's why it is such a warm welcoming family friendly and to me very very special place. So thank you so much for making WWE your home and all you've done for me and more importantly for each other. I love and appreciate you if there's anything you need for me. Just ask me. Okay, because I am here home. View any way that I can and there's always one more little thing because if you saw my very cryptic social post this week. I said that not just something is coming. But some things were coming and I'm not finished yet. So stay tuned. But in the meantime, I want to keep the conversation going so please connect with me on social. 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All I ask again is that if you like to show please help spread the word especially now letting people know about your favorite episode the new site tweet out that you're listening shared on Facebook. And if you can take just a couple of seconds to rate and review the show over an apple podcast app credibly helpful. I want to thank some recent viewers like Christina see who says I needed this in my life. I haven't truly appreciated. Just how much joy all things Disney has brought me until the world down the podcast has become part of my daily routine is I clean up at the end of the day. I love my family and feel fortunate to be able to be stuck at home with them but putting on my airpods listening to Lou and little Timmy and this is my daily escape from the difficult decisions. I face everyday raising two young children. Thank you for being a calming and positive voice during a time of uncertainty and bringing the Disney Magic dead. Into my home everyday Char do says I love this positive show. I love the positivity Community. Enjoy that shines through every episode lose well-organized engaging and just plain fun to listen to as in Orlando native and does he love her? Oh, I hope to meet you one day soon in the Parks. I love the new things. I learned through the podcast each week blue. Thanks for bringing love light and fun off to us every week. Well Sarah Christina, thank you so very much. Again. This is something that we do together and I feel so incredibly fortunate and grateful and blessed that I am able to do this and share my love and passion for all these things with you in such again. I come back to this word and such a wonderful place a wonderful Community a wonderful family that we call home next week, you know, we together we had six hundred episodes of this show and not even counting the show that I did page. before this and it's just a number but it's a milestone that couldn't happen without you and we're going to figure out a way to celebrate together next week and I'm getting choked up because I never could have imagined fifteen years ago when I started podcasting and when I started, you know, my my books and in 2003 and this is where I would be this is how I would feel and these are the friendships with you that I would have and the new site the 604 sewed. The community wage is a lot for us to celebrate now. I think we all need it. Maybe now more than ever. So please go check out the site enjoy. It send me any feedback that you might have often invite some friends to be part of this incredible community that you've created and to listen and to participate and I mean it sincerely if there's some way that I can help you find out how it loo. Maan jealous cam email me Lou at w w.com will just post in the community on Facebook. Again, for some reason these lines in these songs from Carousel of Progress, which as we know, you know, Walt had his hand in what loved it meant something to him. I love now is the time now is the best time that that sort of temporary song for a number of years in the mid seventies and early eighties because this is such an amazing time, but I also thought maybe because I have such fond memories of going with my family during that time. I still hear that song from Space Mountain and that line from Space Mountain playing in my head and it's here's to the Future and you know, that's exactly how I feel about this site show Community and family. So enjoy what we have now, but always keep looking to the Future because I still have more that I've been working on home. I'm going to announce very very soon. Stay tuned. I love you. I miss you. I miss the handshakes and the hugs I appreciate you and I thank you from the bottom. Heart hopefully, this is your best week ever. mm Thursday

David Howard Disney Howard New York director Walt Disney Alan Menken Howard ashman Howard Allen Facebook Don Han producer Ellen Sarah Disney Jeffrey katzenberg Oscar Sean Egan Peter Schneider Library of Congress
Linda Woolverton: Beauty and the Beast and The Lion King

It Happened In Hollywood

40:52 min | 2 years ago

Linda Woolverton: Beauty and the Beast and The Lion King

"Hi there. I'm Seth Abramovitch senior writer at the Hollywood reporter. And I am chip pope. I'm TV writer and a man about town. And this is it happened in Hollywood, we take you on a journey backwards in time to revisit some of the most memorable moments in Hollywood history iconic infamous moments that you grew up with and we talked to the people that were responsible for them this week. We have someone who wrote some of the most beloved Disney movies of all time. So let's get to it on in Hollywood. Welcome back. And hopefully, this is a welcome back. And you listen to some of the previous episodes and enjoyed what we're doing here. But if you're like me, and chip you might have noticed now that we've been covering some dark material. The exorcist is dark it's kind of dark and so in like showgirls, well showgirls was supposed to be dark ended up being funny. But, but if you look at what's actually happening, it's dark stuff body foods. Yeah. So for the holidays, and then tonight is the first night of Hanukkah. We thought we do something a little more family friendly and fun. And so we decided to go to the pinnacle of American family entertainment. We went to Disney. We don't know if you've seen it. But we saw the trailer for The Lion King live action, quote, unquote. But that's the wrong term because it's completely CGI remake. So it's the reanimated Lion King. We gave us dead, and they brought the life that would be reanimated. Wow. Ambi- lion. King zombie Zomba. Oh my God. That's CGI. Simple. So cute, though, you just want to was it was exciting to watch it, and it broke all records for Disney's something like two hundred and fifty million views in twenty four hours. Oh, man. So clearly, this is something that resonates with a lot of people. And once again, we went to the top. We wanted the person who created these indelible classics, and we found her her name is Linda Woolverton, she's a screenwriter, and she wrote some of your most beloved Disney movies, like beauty and the beast and The Lion King and Melissa sent which I mess read. I thought was mouth assent for like a longtime sent Alice in wonderland. Yes. Made a billion dollars. She's the first female screenwriter to write a movie, then generated billion dollar profits. She's a giant in the industry and to our management. She said she talked to us. She came to prominence in the round the mid eighties. And now this was a period where Disney was going through a bit of a lull when it came to their animated films. Of course, they created Pinocchio Snow White all the classics of the forties and into the fifties. But then they were like on around like the FOX and the hound and the sword in the stone member with the other ones. A bunch of one. When talks about and you don't go on the rides when you go to Disneyland. Exactly. So she was busy doing Saturday morning cartoons at the time writing for my little pony and the wobbles or what was the Popol the pople's. These were toy lines that got TV shows made after the toilet was right? Was introduced love the toy. Why not watch the cartoon? But she had ambitions for more. I was doing that for four years, and it was just pure fun. And then I saw Disney animated feature that I didn't like I just didn't think it was that good. And I thought I could do better. So I had an agent at the time who represented all of us who are doing Saturday morning. And I said could you get me over there to Disney and she said, no, you're not ready and they're not reading Saturday morning writers. So I said, well, I have a book. So I drove my book over have had written a young adult novel. And I just draw. Over there. It was before the dwarf building was built the opposites were in Glendale. And I just drove it over. And there was no guards. And I walked in and put it on the desk. And I said, maybe somebody here wants to read this, and I left and that was Friday and Sunday, my phone rang and was Charlie thank and executive who read it and said you have to come work for us. No security come on. So at about, you know, the book, it's a pretty heavy book, and it was auto biographical. And it's but a girl who was abused by dad, and she ends up taking up long distance running as a way of dealing with it. And then he dies in an accident. And it's dark stuff not the kind of stuff. You would think Disney would be like who perfect. But that foretells kind of where some of the young adult stuff has gone does occur from as runner little little twilight. And if you look also at just the the undercurrent. A lot of these classic. Disney stories there's a lot of pain and death and loss teaching kids to deal with loss. Right. And so I think the overwhelming thing that the executive found was the motion was there that this was a writer who was really connected with strong elemental emotions, and that's what they're looking for and making these Disney films, very proactive deride a book to my people think what's going to happen with this book. But if you can use that as a calling card, it's a smart thing to do. I don't know if it's ever worked in any other time in Hollywood history that someone left a book reception, and they got called in. But it worked for Linda. So now, she has an end she's got her foot in the door at Disney, and they put her on a contract like an old school and GM when you think of the golden age of Hollywood, that's what she had. They would pay her salary, and she would just churn out writing for Disney and the first thing they put her on was a version of Winnie the Pooh where get this. Christopher Robin is an adult man what? Which is the plot of this year's Christopher, Robin. Her version nothing really went anywhere. But then Disney decided to dig up some of the old properties. Like, they had beauty and the beast line around from the forties that they'd shelved because Jean Cocteau had come out with a beauty and the beast movie in the mid forties. So while it was like. And didn't wanna do it. I don't know if you made that sound, but and meanwhile, they're more buns animation department things seem to be turning around. They actually have a hit in one thousand nine hundred nine with the little mermaid, and this young exac is seems to have a real vision for for where animation is going in his name is Jeffrey Katzenberg. So Jeffrey tells Linda we've been working on this out of tation, beauty and the beast. We'd like you to look at some of the designs and see if you have any thoughts on it. And there have been some sort of a story worked out, and I remember it was beautiful. But it was interesting. I it would they were sort of showing me the boards. Anna I've seen as oh. Well, this is really boring and right there. She has his scape. You know? She runs out at the castle was like right there. She has to escape he has to go after her and save relief because everything has to change now. So it was like this sort of drew. Dramatic thing that had to happen. Now Katzenberg was doing something radical at the time that hadn't been done in Disney animation, which is until then the directors with the story editors would come up with the script as they went along. And it was a very kind of like a smoothie everyone was working together. The men were all the story editors and the women were all the ink and paint. That's right. They would do the more decorative things after the characters had been developed and the scenarios had been concocted and story boarded out sexist division of labor for a long time over there. And what Katzenberg wanted to do is take the traditional live action model filmmaking, which is you take a screenplay written by someone and you animate it and apply that to Disney filmmaking, Linda became that screenwriter, and she got hooked up with the two guys that wrote the little mermaid songs, and they had also written a little shop of horrors for Broadway. So they. That kind of Broadway appeal. Yeah. And making was the composer. But Howard Ashman was lyricist. And so worked very closely with Linda because they both dealt in words, and it was Howard who introduced to her the magic the secret the key to every Disney movie island so much from Howard. Probably he was my mentor, even though he would have been up reluctant mentor because he never would have done that wasn't his nature, but he taught me so much about writing. And when he said about Disney movies is that the animated features each scene has hasn't umbrella an ARA of emotion, and you can just feel the emotion in the Senate. You talked a lot about Japan does workshop, and how is just the feel of this warm e you know, place where was homey end safe. So when I right now, if if I'm running a fantasy, I think about that a lot what is the emotional content of the scene that I'm. Abused? The entire atmosphere of the scene now, tragically Ashman was suffering from HIV aids during the making of median the beast, and he kept it pretty quiet, but to the people closest around him he did tell what was going on. And he had gotten as low as ninety pounds towards the end of production on it. And I think he died just a few days after the first screening Linda had some very touching recollections of his illness. And she shared them with us. Yeah. I think back now he was always tall kind of is early days. Unlimitedly knew a lot about the disease. And he was really weird. If I accident we tried to drink into the same Cup. And I thought about it really is that what he was going on there. And he was suffering. It, you know, he was really depressed. And I remember one time we are crossing the street New York City and his shoelace was untied. And I said all your shoelaces untied, and he's not. On care. So there's another I'm not gonna let you your shoelace. And so I got them at try to for him. But it was really going. He talked about this sort of clouds and darkness and depression. The really sad time in history. You know, a lot of artists died, but their work helped bring them out of a depression will bit. Yeah. And there's so much fantasy and just sort of Busby. Berkeley that scene Biard gassed is straight out of a Busby. Berkeley musical. There's there's so much emotion and fabulous nece. I think this was an outlet for him at this terrible terrible moment near the end of his life to to really just live it out together. The two of them conceived of the main heroine in beauty and the beast. And this was a radical departure for Disney films. She's adamant that this was not a Princess and not only on Princess. She wasn't doing a lot of things that the women in Disney films were doing until then he was reading the s. Kind of crazy that a character. Reading would be a radical departure. But it was a big part of the characters CNA that detail came from Linda's life when she was a little kid used to go to the store. Mom, tell we go to store and she carry a book the whole time. But if we're gonna divide Disney animated films pre and post union the beast, I think that would be pretty accurate because the heroine's after that were much less motivated by wanting a man to love them much more motivated by their own interests and passions. I believed so much, and what beauty was meant to be due at bell was that she wasn't. She was no longer the victim heroin. You know, the victim Princess who. So we around. And when everybody's being mean to her and whose foot can't fit into little slipper. And so I really didn't believe any honestly as I'm feminist, and I've been and so I didn't believe that we'd buy that anymore. I just think I don't to shove that down young women's throats anymore. So Howard, I conjured up bell. Who was a reader? She wasn't about what she looked like in even though her name was beauty wasn't about that. So she's always like a hair was interface on the time. And she ignored the handsome guy because she was about more than just that bulls. Your tom. Guest. May I have my book, please read this? There's no pictures some people use their imagination. It's about time. You got your head out of those and pay attention. The more important things like me. The whole town's talking about it. It's not right for a woman to read starts getting ideas. Thinking Don, you have positively primeval. Thank you bel-. I thought so strongly about the importance having grown up in Long Beach been the Disneyland every weekend of my life with my my girlfriends and their birthday parties. I just felt it was an important thing to do. So I was pretty strong willed about it. I think in it didn't make me a lot of friends. Oh, man. She sounds like me. So she doesn't have a lot of friends. She's going through this whole thing. This whole process has taken about four years of just drafting and trying to convince the story department, and then they don't get it. And then Jeffrey Katzenberg has to go. Hey, listen to her. This is the way we're going to do it. You know, this is the way things worked back then that male dominated studio Bryce, pretty grueling work method there, but she said what pushed her through always. Was the dream of seeing bell realized on the screen, and then other characters started to pop up Gaston, Tom the good looking, but completely vapid man who wants to marry her from town who ends up becoming villain of the story. Switching places with beast who starts as the villain, and then becomes the romantic hero the story. Spoiler alert. If you haven't seen this thirty year old movie get on it or the remake. Linda comes up with a few household items that sort of sprout legs and start running around. And then the composer said, hey, why don't we have them sing the songs to musical someone needs to sing songs? Be. Guest be outguessed would are service to the dentist. Tie your napkin around your neck, Sherry, we provide the rest subdued your hot fly. We all live to serve try the grey stuff. It's delicious don't believe me as the dishes. All this. General Healy's second. Unfold on men, you take bounce and then you'll be out guest. We outguessed be our gaze and Jeffrey Katzenberg steps in and says well for making these inanimate objects characters that sing songs they need to have very regimented positions in the household. You got a clock. You gotta cook. She got a hot made the teapot everybody wants to sleep with everyone wants to sleep with the feather duster. Okay. Well, maybe you I'm more of a Angela lansbury guy. Well, it's funny. You should bring that up because there's been a internet theory floating around for awhile involving Angela lansbury character. Mrs Potts, the teapot and her sidekick slash sun. Chip the chipped Cup. I having Linda in the room with us. We had to ask her. If there there's any validity to this theory. Have you ever heard this whole like? Feary debate on the internet about chips relationship to MRs pot. No. Well, I think it comes down to the age difference. And having does call her. Yeah. Because it's Angela lansbury eighty year old. She's. Theorising goes that chip is the illegitimate son of the beast, and that he had an affair with the. With the enchanted that put him under the spell. Anyway, there's a lot of fear rising. You know, consider snack theories. That is insane. Tell you where chip came from. Really? Conspiracy. This is before the internet. You know, there was so basically how I learned how to write a musical was Howard said again, I didn't know anything he said, let's right. Like, for example. Let's right through the opening sequence of bell. And write it as if it's not a song, just righted and just write it. And then so within the scene to Howard. He now do their thing. And then I would get it back Zoll by fax, then it could get back as lyric, and then I would full the lyric into the screenplay. And then one day we had MRs Potts, we didn't have. And I was just fooling around and I just came up with this little teacup with the chip and I call them tip. And I sent that to Howard as a joke and Howard loved it. And when to create a whole character around it, and then Jeffrey got hold of it. And they're came chip. But it was just started as just a silly jokes. Shia. I thought your. You're careful says impossible buying is here. We are twenty. She's pretty mama deny or rocket. Now. That'll do Shlomi. Now spill. Thank you. Trick. Sorry. There's the real story there you have it read it conspiracy theorists right now, she wrote the screenplay so she has strong feelings about what is an isn't true in the beauty and the beast universe. And that includes some changes made to the live action remake that Disney put out in what year it twenty seven t. Now were you involved in the live action version at all, you know, the most controversial thing you keep hearing about that as the relationship between gusts on his foot men? His food. Yeah. Came. I came out or something in the movie clearly in love with him. Okay. It was certainly, you know, Lefou means the fool and Howard wanted to have a foil for guest on. And so we had this fool now if he was in love with guest on. No, he was just a a, Tony, you know, and besotted with this year. No person that he could never be really. So he was just constantly around. Doesn't mean that they were lovers. Do you think that was a strange decision? Do other things about the live action that you thought kind of took away from the source one of the whole concept of the castle is that it's it's impenetrable it's Nessim place that the beast and anybody can leave and when he way that he could get out of the castle in the mirror or something. And so I really didn't understand that into the following the mythology didn't work for me anymore after that. So there you go. She wasn't thrilled with some of the decisions made in the live action one. That's quite a controversy. Another thing that came out of the live action. Version was people started to complain actually about the plot of the movie because what happens in is this selfish. Erred, smart bell gets held hostage in this castle. And eventually relents and falls in love with the beast. And in this climate that wasn't seen as you know. A correct thing message to be putting out to women at least some people were complaining that and we were going to bring that up but Lynda actually brought it up first. And she said, you know, if we talk about anything today, I wanna talk about the Stockholm syndrome complaint about beauty and the beast. So here she is giving her version of what she thinks is happening in this movie, Stockholm syndrome relates based on the fact that the kidnap victims are the victim to survive. They take on the the ideology the philosophy of their captor. So that's what Stockholm syndrome is based on. A Bank robbery in Stockholm where the victims wouldn't go against their captors after a little bit of the Patty Hearst writing as well. So she's she became like, a member of the symbionese Liberation Army bell on the other hand doesn't get conscripted. She doesn't become Beasley. She changes him. She transforms her captor he falls in love with her. She makes him into a man. And then she falls in love with him. Bell doesn't get absorbed bell transforms her environment. So that's proactive that is not a victim falling levels someone to survive. It's a victim changing them and she'll choice to sacrifice for father. Stay. Let's all he puts her in chains or anything. Right. It's voluntary act is a loving act that she does to stay takes four years. But this movie ends up being something of a masterpiece for Disney mix, huge amounts of money and even gets. An Academy Award nomination for best picture, I animated movie to get that. And so things change quickly for Linda, but not as cookie as you would think because she still under contract with them making an annual salary to write scripts for them, and she's not even a member of the WG a the writers guild. So she doesn't get residuals for these huge movies that she's creating no I was on contract. So it was the same old same old. I went, and I did homeward bound which was cool because I wasn't a member of the writers guild, even the movie had been nominated for best picture. I was not a member of the writer skill because anime animation isn't covered by guild. Wow. Yeah. Is it still is is still that way? Yet bit still that way. Well, it's still that way. So there are no residuals what for each other's at all that's crazy until they let you write the homeward bound, which was you. Live action animals live action animals. Yes. People in it. Then I got give you weren't considered guild worthy. I wasn't go where they until they went home rebound. Yeah. So when you do a live action version, and you've done the story for like, beauty and the beast, right? Did you get credit for that? And get residuals turn it into live action. What? Created bell. And you create all this on his knee. That's the way it works. Wow. Again, the park for free. No. I mean, at least there should be that, you know, where you get in the California adventure. Overton tear in now. No my credits kinda low on the on beating down the credit crawl bit too. Oh my gosh. Unfreeze wall Tel. Come over here. Right. Disney junior shake them up shocking because like matching how much money they've made a selling beauty and the beast, everything billions, I would assume get and you don't see any of it. No, I only way made money on because I did the show the Broadway show because in the theater, you're an author as if it isn't an insult enough that she's not considered guild worthy for writing these. These animated features. She's also a woman in a man's world animation was traditionally very male dominated. And I'm sure to our extended still is cheating have an easy road. Because she's one of the only female people in the story department at Disney she's not getting compensated fairly. Yeah. It's the classic time's up scenario where you know, this is someone who's creating billions of dollars in profit for a company like Disney, and somehow is is never getting just do. But. Of course, it's been a big year between me too and time's up, and she's observed at all with keen interest and a unique point of view, and we asked her about that for me in all of this is certain button pushing brings up all kinds of stuff, you know, there's so few women who've escaped unscathed from any sort of abuse is so few. It's such a shock. That's what me too is all about, you know, but for me being feminist. I felt like I was I'm carrying this torch, and I've been carrying the torch for a long time. Even when it was not popular to be a feminist. I was still feminist and now I thought like, okay, great. I can put it down. Now, I can just do something else. Because look in a we we beat the door down our here. And I feel like we slammed the gates were standing there on the door that that we broke down, and we're all going, okay. Now what next and what I'm. Is it better be good? What we do it better. Be good. We don't have an option of it not being good. We have to be has to be great. What we do. And I think wonder woman was a testament to that. I was so nervous about wonder woman was like it has to be good. And it was and it was great. So we will have to put our money where our mouth is. We have to be everything that we say we've been prevented from being we actually have to cop with the goods. All right. Well spoken by Linda so back to Linda's journey. So she's written the Kennedy award nominated beauty and the beast, then she managed to finally get her guild credential by writing homeward bound she was all excited to go. Visit the set the outdoor set when she got a call from Jeffrey Katzenberg. I'm Jeffrey kassenberg kind of Disney. I've got an offer for you. Linda would is right. The lion. King. I'd rather go to the Seine. No, this is animated. You're the Queen of animation the lion Queen you will please. Please. Do this. I beg. If you know, Linda was curious why Jeffrey was so intent on making this movie about a Lion King and sure enough he had a personal stake in the story. I asked Jesse will why do you love the film at the story so much, and he told a story that that happened in his life of something very significant in his moment of realizing that had to be a man and step up, and it was a pretty traumatic event that happened is young man, the young father released what it was. And it was in politics, and I'm not really sort of I duly up to me to tell the story. But it really was a scary moment in a young man's wife and had to testify. I members said like when I put my foot on the to step up on the stand. He said I knew I had to be a man. So I thought okay. And then a part of it was this betrayal by an von killer figure that was part of his story. Okay. So I'm trying to piece this all together. And thank you know. Okay. What? Then what happens with this young, man? You know, he's coming of age has certain expectation, and this funkier figure has other plans for him and betrays him and since him to this dark night of the soul moment of one. I realize you have to be who you say, you're going to be be it the hamlet idea came about because of the the trail. So that's what of how this version of wine king volved. So The Lion King story everything we think about it. This beloved children's tale a Broadway musical all that stuff. It comes from a bad ankle and a studio executive that something traumatic happened to him. I mean, that's you never think of that. You didn't see that common? And the next time you see Lion King. And whatever version you see it when you see little baby Simba, just imagine. Jeffrey Katzenberg's face on it. Right. Imagine. Jeffrey Katzenberg being held off the cliff. What's that cliff? Call. Celinda is now key storyteller on this on this project, and she has a lot of things to juggle. Plus, she has Jeffey burger big BAAs breathing down her neck, making sure all the details of this allegory his own life are being properly transposed to the screen. So she decides to do some research and see exactly how to lions work in the wild. I did research a lot on lions and pretty much. You know, the the lionesses are the ones who the cool ones they do all the hunting. They're the ones that pack leaders. They take care of the young the lions just sort of these losers on the outskirts, and they come in and do their thing. And then kill the babies they kill the cubs. So they can procreate. So they're not really that. Great. A really a good besides king. You know, it's it's not natural to the animal kingdom kings, and queens that's human construct. Food. Her research wasn't really helping the situation 'cause Jeffrey wanted his king and his line of succession, so she turned instead to more tried and true storytelling techniques. Okay. She had to come up with Simba's journey right Simba's journey and for that. Besides the hamlet influence, which already mentioned she turned to Joseph Campbell's journey which is the same blueprint that created Star Wars and many other things and the TV show girls. Right. That was just Campbell just Campbell as young late. But she actually had to type out a memo explaining to her uppers Disney. You know, how Lion King poll from Joseph Campbell and hamlet and other famous storytelling templates, and so she brought that memo in and read us a bit of it. It was pretty interesting. This is Chris Vogler some have here with thousand faces in his summary. Chris Vogler that movies are built in three acts the heroes decision to act the action itself and the consequences of that action in Simba's case three acts would be they hurls natural path to becoming king is distorted by the untimely death of his father to the heroes. Loosely follows the Bill into his own demise. Three the heroes confrontation with himself his decision to act and the action itself. This is where our story veers away from the traditional hero myth and heads more into Shakespearian country like hamlet Simba's dealing with a true. Uncle who caused the death of his father while Hamid is beset with indecision about avenging. Father's death. Simba is blithely ignorant of truth as he falls his uncle send him up for the fall. So, wow, that's really interesting because it just puts it in that huge sweeping epoch territory. Yeah. And it was so cool to have this memo read to us that was basically the DNA of this entire story. That's now most like biblical in in terms of how much people respect to know the story inside out. So they knew they wanted to create some kind of Bambi in Africa. And there was clearly if it was going to be called, The Lion King, and it was about this baby lion. Simba the cats Berg that eventually he was going to have to be king, which meant that his loving father MU Fossa, unfortunately would have to bite the dust, and this is where Linda's research into Africa actually paid off in a big way. If he's going to really be king to data's the die. How is it going to happen? And how is Simba gonna mistakenly feel responsible for that? So the question of how are we gonna kill move poces? Who is like the best dad ever? You know, the best dad in the world ever. How are we going to kill him? We could throw them off a cliff, you know, of a traditional ways of murder in. Animated movie. Why knives we let's he got commuting right? So I was I was doing research on Africa. And I found this book on the wildebeest migration, which is intense. And they there's these these photos of the wildebeest trample each other. They just like run over each other's dead. Will be on the side of the rivers. And I thought oh, yeah. Let's trample him in a river of wildebeeste. That's what we're gonna do. We're going to set them up and kill him in ruled Abe's. Help me. Cain. Pitch us idea. They're like we can't draw that many Welby STS. I guess you. Can you have that computer from piece the one that's world around? You can do it. Oh, yeah. You use the wildebeest generator program that came standard with all gateway computers. But I think it's worth note in that lend read about these wildebeest in a book, so remember keep reading she's like the original bell. She's walking around reading a book. So, you know, liking now came out in ninety four so that's twenty four years ago. But you know, in this story that it tells there's always these kind of epic stories, and they have a lot of echoes of the lion. King story in them. Don't they? Yeah. I mean beyond the fact that people are still super hungry for this CG remake to the point of breaking records on YouTube, you managed to see echoes of the lion. King myth in a lot of movies. Did you see Black Panther? Yeah. And were you taken at all because I was at the similarities a little bit a little bit. And in the jungle book to the recent live action very much very very liking. And then of course, there's The Lion King, which will be holiday, very lying might be Lion King, we're hoping, but do they consult with you at all? No. Says the same thing as the live action. So I get the sense that you're not thrilled with these live action remakes because of your lack of ownership and stake in them a lot of reasons I wasn't totally throw with being the beast remake. Because I didn't think it was exactly the mythology of storytelling. I'm not happy that I don't get the participate who would be and I don't know how liking is going to be. But the thing is when you watch that trailer. You exactly know what it's going to be. 'cause it looks exactly like the previous version of the lion. King chauffeur shot remake. You know? There's been some debate online whether really needs to exist at all because the original lion. King had a lot of artistry to it. You know, it wasn't just trying to be realistic animation. It was you know, beautiful images. And now looks like they're just turning it into what if a bunch of African animals start around a cliff and an actual Boone held up an actual baby Katzenberg. Yeah. And you know, we interviewed her I guess if you days before that trailer came online, and so yeah, I would like to know what her reaction was because his fatally shot by shot thing. I don't know. I see MS Linda Woolverton as kind of a pioneer who got scalped. Know what I mean like she's she helped him van all these stories and get her do. Bake them. And I don't think she hides that working in Hollywood is is always sort of adele's handshake. And there's good things come out of it. And there's bad things that come out of it. And she seems to have found a peace with it. And there's things that she gets out of it that have no dollar sign on it. And they actually do mean everything to her for me blessing that I've had working for the Disney company in creating for them is that I feel like I have had these ideas that I got to spread in the world through this huge megaphone and has an automatic built in audience with automatic acceptance desire, and so well, I get to sneak my ideas in so I got sneak in my feminist agenda. Whatever that is. So I feel really blessed and lucky that I've had the opportunity to to do that. You know, my ideas are all over the world. I can go to countries all over the world and see my characters on. Little lunchboxes bizarre spirits. I was curious do kids. Do they put together who you are? Does it get explained to them or? No. But sometimes when I go to like, I just did the Austin film festival just went down, and did some panels and certain young women, particularly young women millennial women cry they actually cry and it's like the cry to meet me, and it's like, wow, mostly because bell with would how bell has helped them and change their lives. And they tell me I I wanna do this. Because of I wanted to be writer because of her, you know, so that's an incredible feeling, you know, to have been able to touch people in that way. I loved talk into Linda Woolverton, I thought that she was great. She is a trail blazer a ground breaker all the adjectives that you could ascribe to screenwriter has been while they successful and has fought for. For her vision in these screenplays, and I think that's very admirable. Glad we had our on the show. Yeah. And she had a great sense of humor about herself. She wasn't G rated. That's for sure you know, what I mean. Like, she. She was like she was very candid about candid about the good and bad things with working for Disney over the years. She put up with with our follies. I will say is the new Lion King musical. I assume it's the musical. I mean who goes The Lion King and doesn't expect to see. Can you feel the love tonight? It'll probably be a mixture of like the old classic Elton John songs and may be some new ones. I was like to do fake Randy Newman songs for Disney movies that don't have Randy Newman song, and they're all like, what are you going to do when there's a beast who wants to fall in love. Would you feel my friend? Team for the peace. Do it for liking now symbol woes lion. Who do won't be king till they hear them up in front of a bunch of people said you'll king? He's off Fran. Everyone's your friend. That's being friends. Right. Pretty good. So thanks again to this episode's guests, Linda Woolverton and send you an ideas of people that you'd like to see on the show interviewed. And you know, you can ask questions about previous shows to answer them. That's right. I h H T H dot com. And until next time. We'll see you in Hollywood.

Linda Woolverton Disney Disney Jeffrey Katzenberg bell lions writer Hollywood Jeffrey Howard Ashman Lion King Angela lansbury Simba Mrs Potts executive Disneyland FOX Jean Cocteau Stockholm
Episode 633: No Ones Going to Understand What This Crab is Saying!

Overthinking It Podcast

1:17:56 hr | 3 months ago

Episode 633: No Ones Going to Understand What This Crab is Saying!

"For. August. Seventeenth two thousand and twenty. It's the overthinking it podcast episode six, hundred, thirty, three. No one's going to understand what this crab is saying. Where we subject the culture to level of scrutiny, it probably doesn't deserve the over thinkers or your smart funny friends from the Internet our voices joined in. Glorious Harmony in Song I. Am Not Rather I. Am here with My. Mother the rest of this barbershop quartet that we have Matthew Blinky hello. Hello Feeder fenzl. Hello. Mr Jordan Stugz. How? I get the seven I guess, Hey, how's it going, everyone? Hello flat. Sharp Eleven. The. Hey. So speaking of speaking of all this music this barbershop quartet is. Assembled, because through. Various means I think Markley who is on a who is on a journey into the world of the humans up where they walk up where they run up where they stay all day in the sun he is. He has been transformed briefly and we'll be back with as soon but he is. He brought to our attention I think the. Howard documentary on Disney plus which is. About an hour and a half long sort of Ken Burns style sort of interviews and photographs. Story of the life and career of Howard Ashman, the lyricist of among other things. The Little Mermaid beauty and the beast and Aladdin maybe some of Latin who. Very sadly died young of AIDS and so he had this sort of incredible shooting star like career that was so bright and so short and You know we sort of commend the documentary. To you if you want this sort of biographical material, but we immediately sort of dived in together on in our. Sort of friendly chat and started talking about these musicals which you know are wonderful and we love and we decided, hey, why not do episode make an episode about this so if you want to sort of back in the old days of theory turntables, we used to say you have the opportunity now to pause the podcast, go listen to the source material and so I would i. Would consider the source material for this the little shop of horrors either the off Broadway cast recording or the film version with Rick Moranis the little. Mermaid beauty and beast and Aladdin, and that is the that is the assigned reading for this. There are some supplemental ratings which we may we may refer to or not. But the the aside listening is available in the student center. Also known as spotify. So. Let's let's just dive in and start start talking about these. These musicals unless anyone feels like there's more prologue amon on necessary to this but I. I listened to them as I clean as I clean my house today I listened to all of these things on kind of spotify playlist and I was struck by something that I'd never been been struck by before, and that is the kind of the. In both the. There's like A. There's like This is the world song that is part of Disney That is the key part of the kind of the form of Disney musical where it's the Bonjour born sure song or call bell and beauty, and the beast It's may be under the sea in and will mermaid. It's you know circle of life in the lion king is there's a lot of. It's. Another opening another show in kiss me, Kate, it's all of these things where you just kind of get acclimated to the to the world of musical and in a lot of these, there are kind of Greek choruses. It's the people who the townsfolk were commenting on bell and isn't she peculiar? It's the in. The Aladdin Song I. Forget what it's called one jump ahead or something like that. There's a chorus of like. Of Orientalist Harem women who like say that Aladdin is is a loss caused, but he's cute. and. It struck the by thing. He's rather tasty. It's the growl is just on rather tasty. So I noticed it today. Still I think he's. Almost as the two people were. People were singing the lyric but it certainly which. By the way means tasty in the manner of rather. How that's a real. A. Real fishy reading in the sense of Stanley Fish. It's a reader response criticism. So the the it struck me that a lot of these. A lot of these have their roots. You guys know that. The friendship six plus own is owed from space. Nine. Yeah. I I got that bloom. Also, Lumiere is Jerry. Orbach, there is there is some great the detective from law and order for those of you who don't know. Yeah or the you re exactly I mean you look you can look at it that way or you can look at it as this like this story musical theater performer finally, happy chance to make a buck doing some television that ran forever and syndication. He was the original in the fantastic. I'm good good good for him I mean you know try to remember a time in September before law and order was streaming twenty four hours a day. I was trying to make a point which is that this kind of Greek chorus type of writing. Seems to have its roots in little shop where the story is told with The story is told kind of Girl Group A run. It's style grow group of three singers who provide kind of commentary who provide vocal support and who do some kind of moving of the narrative long from from one place to another I remember in another context seeing an interview with Frank 'cause who directed the film adaptation of Little Shop and talking about how the girl group lets you kind of inject style lets you inject a kind of a non realistic kind of aesthetic layer with the outfits in with choreography. You know in the kind of the tropes of that like Brill building. Girl Group. Type of music that they sing. into the. Into the story and the other thing that they do is like narrative Lee they give you a chance to kind of almost like go to three d If you think of like a kind of characters perspective or two characters perspective as being kind of flat, you can get you can triangulate with the grow group and not just as there are three of them but the. Perspective like can shift. With IRA NI like there's a song called. The MEEK shall. in Africa whether it's just in the film or whether it was in the off, Broadway the state show as well. But where it's you know the the They say the meek shall inherit. You know the book doesn't lie. It's not a question of merit. It's not. Demand and supply they say the meek shall inherit and your meek little guy. You know the Meeker GonNa get what's coming to him by and by sort of. ironizing the kind of the upside and the downside of what Seymour is going through with a as he becomes famous and yet has to keep killing people for the plant. Oh, it's about a killer plant from from outer space. I don't know maybe there are a bunch of counter examples, but I couldn't think of another Greek chorus like that. Of earlier ones you mean, well. I guess I can think of Greek courses from Greek plays but like. where it's kind of as pronounced feature as I happened to notice as I was, you know listening to wall breaking Greek chorus right where they just sorta like sing right to the Audience Sherry. They know they're they know their show what one one example that I think calls because we're talking about Howard? Ashman in his personal style as it becomes in the effort to kind of keep the gravy train going after his death Disney that becomes a kind of Disney style which might really be his style, right? So you're looking for. That precede little trump importers that have a similar conceit I might point to Pippin in nineteen, seventy two, which has a different execution of the concede right where it's a carnival show that's being put on by carnival players, kind of morality play and they come in they sing to the audience and they're saying we're going to put on this play for you right and it's going to have all the things that you want to see in a drama. It's going to have backstabbing and all this other stuff. The thing that feels distinct from that that with an Ashman style or Disney style like you see I think Jordan had pointed out Hercules when we were talking about this as a really solid example of this kind of thing which seems to come from little shop. So it's like Ashman starts with his own show right and well, and then he he kind of joins Disney, and then he makes bank with Disney and he dies in the middle of a Disney movie production. He's replaced by Tim Rice and Disney kind of carries carries forward his work and reproduce it in future musicals. But. You're familiar with Pippen Right Matt, and how that all works? and which both both mats are familiar with Pippen. Of That's where I met that trump full repeal. Remember I remember I remember. Yeah Yeah. Well, you know what? The other one I was GONNA mention. Is. A funny thing happened on the way to the forum where the main cared smashes before throw all the time it seems himself absurd debt by calling for intermission. But I difference between like Pippen and funny thing and the other mad is talking about is that In Pippen and a funny thing, it's the main character that has the ability to directly address the audience and it almost seems almost like bugs bunny that like he has a knowledge that like this is all fictional the other characters don't where's that almost flicked a little shop and some of these other things where it's these meaningless sort of secondary characters that's could call up the after cavity like the protagonist never does the protagonist place it's throat. You can think of earlier examples that come close to it also So there's the barbershop quartet in the music man right which sort of. Functioned like the girl group and that is a distinct musical style and they pop it in every now and then, but they don't address the plot very much. They just they sing lighter rose over and over again, mostly So like they're doing everything if you couldn't speak English, you'd think it was very similar, but it turns out to be quite different and then you can. Also find examples like in in camelot. There's one Song Gwen aveer where they're faced with the embarrassment of having to do a big like epic medieval battle on a Broadway stage, and then rather than try to do it, they just have the chorus narrator but that's just one song. It's not a recurring thing that comes back over and over again sort of giving you this particular. Flavor as a bumper periodically throughout the show which does really I mean I can't think of another example. It's hard. You know it's really tempting to kind of like to allies all of this through the life of the man especially when when we watched a documentary about the events of his life, but one of the things that it that it does is it kind of gives an IT maintains an outsider perspective maintains kind of a Double Lens perspective throughout the whole thing where you have the main story going along as though on one time line, and then you have you know. Kind of running alongside it maybe intersecting points but maybe just kind of like a projection from it this other. This other point of view which could be you know. which could be kind of a metaphorically a whole. Any number of host of alternative points of view based on the fact that that. Based on the fact that he was gay and making this like extraordinarily commercial mainstream American entertainment or a number of other things that you can put onto it. Question about little shopping I'm wondering if rather can can help with. Interesting. About is it's based on a crazy thing movie that's not a comedy that is a low budget horror movie was Roger Cormon or movie starring a very young. Jack Nicholson. It is supposed to be an actual sort of scary sort of a deal with the Devil Horror Movie About Kentucky Plant that eats people and I assume that the original idea was to sort of like take this movie that was like. Sort of so bad that it's good. It Ed to Sorta like lead into the silliness and make it a dark comedy. But at least to me, it's like I find little shop to be legitimate effective. You know like I tear up when I see that it almost like I almost wonder if they set out to make it force at almost like despite themselves, they actually needed something real. Well, I'm not sure that those things are opposed like a farce or something that that comments and something that can be Something that can be of affecting. Beyond is something that can be legitimately affecting I think the original Roger Cormon one was also the not a comedy per se in the sense that like airplane comedy. I think it is very easy. I think it is very campy right and is kind of kind of parody. It has Jack Nicholson in it but. The Jack Nicholson plays the the dental patient, the role played by Bill Murray in. Franco's directed adaptation of the musical Oh. That he see more. So he wasn't even the Star of the movie although that's all anyone remembers about the original which. Nicholson. In Yeah. But he's the he's the guy getting. Yahoo. Guess I think he's the. masochistic. Dental. Dental patient if if memory serves but I think that I mean, he talks about it in the documentary I mean I think that that there there is some like campus DNA in the. There's some can't be DNA, in the the original in the source material which was like, and this is information that comes from the documentary which was like produced on a dare intew days on the set of another movie But has this you know kind of glee this sort of joy about it that makes it. That makes kind of fun funding irresistible. But like he talks a lot about Ashman talks a lot about what what he was trying to do. You know in terms of like, do a very by the numbers American music call, kind of you know in in the form you know the the The kind of the love story and stuff, and like I think that like one of the reasons it's affecting that formula works you know like you can sort of do a burlesque of the formula. But in terms of when you burlesque of the Formula You you end up doing the formula like the the. You know I I'll pecan steel your thunder here about the about the ironic the ironic and ironic side the the favourite on yet pete's favourite onion headline, which is ironic ironic. Porn purchase leads to an ironic orgasm. Favorite. Onion headline is clearly doing about one hundred percent of Americans have secret lives or the one where dolphins get opposable. Thumbs. Counterpoint between a yogurt billboard and the person who hates consumerism. That's a great one I liked that one. My favorite is one of. My favorite was I want to tell people about the yogurt I think. My favorite is the sports franchise from my area. We'll defeat the sports franchise from your. Favorite headline. To I just wanted to sort of interject that that you mentioned the little shop has heavy elements of camp and you know although campus gone mainstream in like you know as been. Sort of like just part of the the the water which will strength. Swim originally it was very much like lay right like the idea of camp. came out of this I mean. Basically, paraphrasing from the wikipedia page, I'm looking at now and it said the attitude was originally a distinctive factor in pre stonewall gay male communities. Word was the dominant cultural patterns. So it is interesting to think about it especially interested about how much. Sort of gay sensibility creeps into those early. Disney. Films that we think of as the most G. rated, you know Middle America get entertainment but do have some sort of like subversive. You know interesting photocopy of a photocopy elephants take directly from gay culture at the time was the lick what what on Earth in the Little Mermaid is even remotely Campy Map Linke. The. Even like the way that she enters the move, right. The first thing you see is like a close up of her lips as she applies lipstick. You know it's such A. Disney animators brought about the fact they use like a divine. noted. Cross Dresser of the John Waters Film as like a inspiration verse sort of like you know look and mannerisms. But it just so happens that that she is in fact voiced by a woman, but you're talking before the podcast about how they seriously considered. Having. Baske- hungry fire seen as do her voice. Indeed it was what like ten or fifteen years later that you would do. The turnblad in hairspray, which was like a sort of a similar, her kind of Torture for his. Little Little Merman. define. Right. Well, he plays the the original turn. Yeah was divine. Yeah. We played ricky next divine played ricky lake mother in the nonmusical. John Waters Film hairspray on which the Bronx Raymond musical is is based. I I was Pete. But I forget what I forget where on earth I was going with it. You are going to talk about the kind of ironic verses on ironic. Appreciation for the musical as a form. Something that Ashman says when he's talking in the in the in the documentary and some of the documentary footage of them we talked about animation right is he talks about how you can't really do. He doesn't like movie musicals like West side story or other sort of played straight movie musicals because he doesn't think that the public is willing to accept. In the expected reality of film that two people can break out in song with each other and not say break the Fourth Wall Right? He thinks that that there needs to one of the reasons that little trump horse was. So successful was that it it admitted to the audience that it was absurd or silly or fun or different. That everybody in this thing was singing and that this is something that it's hard for people to get over and get past and so and they're also that it used popular genres of music rather than kind of Operetta that become very. Comfortable in. In musicals at the time, and then straight through till now, and it's interesting to hear him talk about you know Oh the big departure from the conventional notion of what a musical is into a more modern genre popular music that really speaks to the people and to what they want is is little shop of horrors right? Because I think a lot of people might claim that that's something that happened much more recently, right? uh-huh. With, something like Hamilton, others words of or even rent right are newer sorts of museums that kind of branched out from what a musical it was supposed to be back in the day, and also because we live in a post glee world where the notion that kind of show choir Broadway belts, you know singing style you know the dream of being the singer, the spotlight, which of course is is something that was. Really refined by by. The Guy, who was the guy who co-wrote sing with Howard Ashman who is also featured in this documentary the guy who were a chorus line really drilled into the culture, right? But. Yeah. But just this notion of. What the proposition is, is that Howard Ashman in writing little shop of horrors claims that you need to have a alienated defect and he cites the threepenny opera as an example of the off Broadway theatre that he is seeking to make in his Cathedral Company prior to joining Disney Now, because this is sort of a breakfast thing to right, you need to tip your hat to the audience and let them know that. Yes, it is silly that everybody is going to be. Singing. It's not meant to be played as the straight reality and also we're GONNA play music that you're going to like, and that animation is one of the few places where the audience is already willing enough to suspend their disbelief. What's what's going on in a movie that everybody's singing isn't going to bother them and that's excited working animation because he loves Broadway, style musicals but there's just not an opportunity to make a movie about them in the way that he would want. To touch on. Yeah. I mean I guess I was going to say that like. The with respect to the ironic porn purchase, right. If you do a, you know a kind of a burlesque of the. Classic musical formula, you are doing the classic musical formula right and it's not. It shouldn't surprise you if some of its magic starts to work on you right like if if unbidden, some of the spells start to sort of take take shape. And the? The data, no. The ghost of coal porter is summoned from the. Summit from the great beyond this Metaphor got away from me Pete. Really. is to say. Another way to think of it it's to say that if you want to do a classic Broadway musical and you're worried that. That people are going think that it's lame or something. It's fine to a pastiche of it because you'll get to do the classic Broadway musical anyway, right like no one is going to stop you. You'll get past guard just fine. Yeah, and it's not disrespectful to the former anything because it will still work exactly you want it to. To. Give a very specific example of how this worked We think of Ashman is primarily a lyricist but in fact, like he had some credits as a screenwriter in fact, he was the one who. Back in one, thousand, nine, hundred pitched the idea of an animated. And got started and it was his original treatment that had. So let's get even we competed instead remaining faithful to the plot and the characters of the original story but envisions a camping nineteen, thirty style musical with the CAB Calloway fats waller like genie spur that innovation that the genie was really going to be the one who completed like broke the fourth wall in like made modern sort of references and like stuck out like a sore thumb while everyone else played street that came from him now obviously Robert Claims, made it. His Own Dad sorta concept that that really makes the movie what it is A. Comes from him once again there's that word competing camped. Aladdin was my Disney musical as a as a kid. It was the one I was probably just a hair too young for little mermaid and by the time lion king came around I was probably a hair too old and Aladdin just hit. Just hit it exactly the right time for me and I loved the kind of the improvisational anarchy of it I love the kind of you know the Robin Williams. Style of it, and then just the kind of clever. Cleverness. Like He. He was. It's funny. A lot of I was listening to suddenly Seymour from little shop and. Like I was. So I was so touched by like like listening to it and how. Simple it is and how just what a clear vision you know and like not trying to not trying to kind of. Do it up too much right like. Not. Not Trying to put a hat on a hat with it and just doing kind of the simple. Simple. Love Song between the characters but lake. You know Bell. The. The. Under the sea. Be Our guest. The ALIBABA Song. From. Right Lake. This man could Jim some words into a line who could like a lyric density When when one person heard? Derived described Stephen Sondheim a little sneeringly as he packs his lyrics to their soda dense you could put them in your yard and you could use them for offense kind of illustrating the problem than he was. Criticizing that like men, this is a guy who could write some patter right for the for the characters. That like that sort of full-on the maybe not the kind of the manic energy of a Robin Williams. But definitely, with the kind of the maximalist aesthetic, you know that that Robin Williams kind of embodied in sort of brought to life. Really strikes these any also knows. IAGO. Head turn you I. Know please please go. I was GonNa say that I think there's an idea which perfectly logical you gotta understand where he came from that. If you're writing a song for a children's piece of entertainment, the lyrics should be understandable by shambles and. Does. Not seem to believe that that there are lots of lyrics of these songs that I'm staring specifically under the sea under the sea win the Sardine Begin to begin it's music to me he. and. There are a lot like that. They're like if you look at like what does that mean explain that to people who don't know where that means? There's a famous Cole Porter Song to give keene and so it's it's. A, it's. The beginning disease. against. Reporter days, and so it's sort of a dual reference to like you know I suppose. Sardine plane the kind of music to which you dance and begin. But also the reverend like sardine playing, Cole, Porter Music because there's a song beginning to begin. Predominates. At low there there there's no Katie in America. They had hope of understanding this lyric and it's actually kind of crazy not just that he wrote it. But that nobody at the studio was Sorta like you have to change this. Larry. Because nobody does. To understand what this crab is saying. These let him go in there. And there's lots of. Like when you read the literature like all allow, that's what they're. That's what they're saying. In the you know there seems to be you know not not that. The songs. Kid is not going to understand what's being said in that like a lot of the language is sort of is so powerful in the you know especially like we're talking about. Part of your world and just like the sort of repetition in the I. Don't know if you WANNA get into a masterclass Jordan Goulet. Some of these lyrics are just. Slipped in there is almost Easter eggs for I don't know maybe other layers this. You get them other big musical theater fan. Right exactly that. And of course, we think of Aladdin as the prototypical. Animated movie that had these adult references right that light chains do not know what Groucho Marx is when he Robbed comes through. It does like you bet your life on but adults do or at least adults at that time did now doubts don't in nobody nobody knows what's GonNa Happen Now. We're adults and we know what's going on there like the. Yeah it is. It is the idea that he's writing. He's both writing for children, but he's also writing lyrics for his peers himself. And that they're they're these. Words. Actually going through you know not just not letting it pour over your these musical numbers but like reading what he wrote and it's it's A real poetry to it does I mean it does both because as the kids say under the sea, that's slaps right but. The. Is that what the kids say I don't know but. But, also, it stands up to scrutiny. So it works on a number of of fractional levels. He knew about to jump into something and before we push on WanNa make sure you have an opportunity to cash it out. I was just GonNa say that that? Yes he actually. I'll get back to that I want to say now is that do you feel like it's really only with that run little mermaid duty and the beasts Aladdin that the Disney musicals start to feel like Broadway. Like I'm thinking back definitely the old ones are musicals, but like it's almost a different thing, right? I wonder if like because there's not Cole porter references or anything like that in in Cinderella or sleeping beauty to my knowledge. There's sort of merging of streams there you feel ache. Because they say, they don't even have a familiarity with Broadway in one of the surprising things in the documentary is the animators and directors of the Little Mermaid confessing that they didn't know even the most basic ideas about the ways that Robert Musicals are structured and how. Classic. tropes of the kinds of songs that exist in Broadway musicals. Survive much more well, no. Now by laypeople than they were at the time also but. But I thought that was really interesting, right? Yeah. Because looking back on, it was fascinating. It was like an episode of yu-gi-oh right but like the other animators like he had this secret that he laid on us that we the character has to come out and sing something called an I want song which like that's that's not a secret that's like. The most basic formulas principle that you would learn in like music appreciation class where they're going to tell you one thing about Broadway. They're like, Oh, you have all these sounds at the beginning that are called. I want songs right and you can sort of imagine Ashman telling them that and then being like what am being what? You're what you're is red. Dragon Boat. You can attack life for it's directly. Yeah you. That's what else did you. Shows written on the surface of the card. You activated by Trap Card wasn't say I can't read. So. If you look at the Disney musical right before this is Oliver and company which I think there's there's one song in it that that was a Howard Ashman Allen main song released an song and that's how they got their foot in the door. But the rest of that was the whole. The whole sort of Hook of the the musical is that they cast billy Joel as the sort of cool cat dies the outflow dodger dog and they gave him a couple, Billy Joel songs, and then they have A. Huey Lewis does a song sort of like the unseen narrator and so it's sort of like you know eighties contemporary sort of Pop. Rock a field to, and if you go back further and you think about the the Disney robinhood they the whole day the truly insane movie because it's literally like what at the Robin Hood was it episode of the Dukes of Hazzard with literally that style of country music that's that's a joke that's gotTa be the Pitch Right? Is that like Oh, this is basically the dukes of Hazzard. That's where the hamster dance comes from. You don't even need to repaint the back of the car still. Cover but it's Still I mean there's a musical template, that Robert. All these sort of lead lead back countries sort of like ditties. Broadway it's something real difference. Well. For for what it's worth, they're they're like we're talking about one strain of Broadway like there was also the like you know the God's spell the the Stephen Schwartz kind of rock musical or some of the Andrew Lloyd Webber ones that had that had happened. That it happened at this time. So like the idea of like what is Broadway has never well at least in in the second half of the twentieth century was never quite as mono vocal. You know there were the there were like the serious art music people like on time or like Leonard Bernstein and in. West side story a you know there were the. The like I guess I would describe a lot of God spell as like country rock. So that you know that that all existed right. It wasn't all people doing a lot of cocaine roller skating, right? There is also all Disney films. On never, I'll never forget going to see starlight express. You know what I learned freight. Is Great. Freight's. Is. Great, and that's about eight minutes of the lyrics of the. Song while they roller skate around the. Rate is great. Is. There a plot? Giving you one second tell me the story of starlight express now. There's a the trains it's kind of like. Thomas like trains have a race is what the plot of Ever as I. Can I can I blow your mind? Tell you something. Yeah. By starlight express was intended to be a Thomas, the tank engine musical, but they couldn't get the rights you're kidding. A true fact. Whenever. You. WANTED TO DO A. Musical and they. Say Okay fine which of these three. Which of these three s most mind blowing right Andrew Lloyd Webber, comes up like fresh on his like he's got his big pile cats money. I think it is and he's like I want to do a musical about Thomas the tank. That's crazy fact number one. Number two, they said No. Crazy number three he's like I'm doing it anyway. Look, we already bought all these roller skates. So yes. You know Gosh Darn. We'll to Thomas the tank engine. Okay. I'M GONNA come back with a biographical musical about a little known figure from Argentine politics. The first lady of Argentina ever around. Let's. We haven't really talked about beauty and the beast. That much anything anyone WANNA throw anything you WanNa talk we never got into part of your world we were so fascinated by it before we did the podcast when we were on the back channel and Jordan had a lot of thoughts about it, we wanted to touch on that little mermaid close read a little bit. Sure. Yeah. Let me let me do my Ted talk here about why part of your world is high. Art. I I had I almost had like A. Suave lead into it when we were talking about how you can pack in so many lines do such good patter songs but like another thing that Ashman knows how to do is to to slow the heck down when he wants to, I would point to to the beauty and the beast song is another example of this where simplicity and repetition. Are Sort of the name of the game, and they tend to be these big emotional moments. So the thing that I noticed about part of your world as I was listening to it the thing I've been thinking about actually for years actually I remember when I when I noticed that the first time and I keep coming back and thinking about it more. Is that there's this through line in the lyrics that you get to the part where? She sings I wanna be where the people are I wanNA see WanNa. See them dancing walking around on those. What do you call them Oh feet right so that that breaking into out of song and into speech in order to fish for the human word right? And then that gets repeated immediately after that. A legs are required for jumping denson strolling along down. What's that word again street right. So again, she runs out of the English and she starts speaking and then they're just like one word is song. And then that comes back a third time. So I think that often when we think about we're ex, we're thinking about like couplets you think about this, there's one particular rhyme is really really clever something like that. But the thing that like that blows my mind here is that after the bridge of the song. You get finally. Ready to know what the people know asking my questions and get some answers what's a fire and why does it? What's Word Burn and there she doesn't start talking and I think the thing That I think is so amazing is like okay. So feet burn. These words are not the same right like feet is one of the most trivial and kind of silly sounding words in the English language whereas burn is about as emotionally loaded a word as you could possibly come up with which it doesn't mean that like every time that someone says the word burn they're going to be feeling emotional. But if you wanted to pick one word for Jodi Benson to sing and fully mode on the word burn itself carries all of this juice that you couldn't do feet was in that position and what I think is going on here is that like actually burn hits harder because you remember feet when. You're getting there like when she fishes for words, she's supposed to stop singing she's supposed to say something silly but instead it's burn and that right there is like is already kind of exciting but then makes it more exciting. Is that like well first of all, there's the vocal performance of it. Right? You have to actually close with those bones with flash you have to actually say what's it again Oh feet right in that particular way, and then a burn and then menken gets in there too. Because there's there's a musical through line as well but sort of starts in a different place but ends in the same place. You get just a little bit before the end of the bridge. Bright. Bright, young women, sick a swim in ready to stand and ready to know what the people know. So going on there in the background is. This is the tonic of the of the mode that you're. Right. So when you get women sick assuming ready to stand that skill degree to needs to fall down to one, there's a really strong tendency for it to want to fall down to one. So ready to stand ready to know there's a little escape tone stand and read, but you go down to one really solidly and it's just like a normal cadence when melodic figure comes back though in the in the final. The final verse, right? What's a fire and why does it? WHAT'S THE WORD BURN? It should go when's it my turn and a lesser composer might have done that but he doesn't it's what's the word burn when's it? My turn would entire love. So you're going from scale degree to rather than to go to three E. would entire love of to explore that shore up our Bah and you actually got up to four right damp here comes the bride. Out of the sea wish I could be and that four actually never walks back down for three to one part of that world to be like the most conventional way to do it. But instead out of the sea, wish I could be just sort of left hanging part of that world and you jumped down to the tonic and it's really like a different. Contra Strand that finally resolves it the scale degree for it's just left there floating. Remember that scene is drawn actually she's like she's in her hidden treasure grotto right she reaches out with her hand through the ceiling and then leaves her. Up There and just sort of sinks down as gravity carries her back down to the ocean floor. So like the animation and music and the sort of elaborate through line in the lyrics are all conspiring to give you the sense of that gesture kind of like hitting so hard and reaching up high. Anyway it's it's really really remarkable. The level of of. That goes into that and I don't mean to say that you need to appreciate these complexities to really have gotten. The Little Mermaid Rather Brian to get out is when you hear her saying, when's it my turn something inside your heart kind of clench is right and I think all of this. This armature of stuff is what goes into having that moment like hit you so hard it's having it hit you so hard that was when you when you got it right? Anyway. Thank you for coming to talk. Inside. Mash. That mash that Hartford Ding Bell Fam- or else you won't know when we. have updates. And it's it's as you point out, it is not unrelated to the thematically material of wanting to strive to to reach higher and to kind of break a barrier between the water and the land. Right? It's. It's only ten years later. That south park bigger longer uncut Beasley did a a a line for line parody of that song including is like a shot were receiving up there and does this sort of like reach upwards towards the camera shot? As. Had It's funny. It's like it's It was only ten years I mean a little more than that between the Little Mermaid and Sal. Like it was enough time for like that two or d become deeply iconic ride that it has quickly from that was the summer's big movie to Dow. That is like a part of the Disney Canon that will live forever. Yeah, it's funny. Can kind of a part of the musical Canon Right. Exactly. The South Rock musical is like making fun of not Disney movies but musical tropes and they're like, Oh, well, a song part of your world would be thing that musical would have. Yeah I mean I guess like A song like part of your world in what in what sense, right? With, the character kind of being desiring to go to another place like. Is that it or what? What was the? Even more specifically just like oh so. If this song is like. Kind of like, do you hear the people saying? This song is going to be kind of like part of your world because those are both iconic moments in the in the Great Canon of musicals. Yeah it'd be I. Gotcha becomes a reference point or a kind of a shortcut to A. Shorthand for talking about For talking about a style. I. Yeah. I really love that song. It's. I think you're totally you're totally right on and I think if we had another hour I would ask for the harmonic analysis and how it how it supports it. You know because like ready to stand with the flat seven court and the the you know the some of the secondary dominant stuff like and how it? I don't know how it sort of floats together. Or snaps together or seaweeds together is. You know. I don't know I just think it's it's super good. So come back for partout of Jordan's Tedtalk you know in in a future episode of of the overthinking podcast You know. So he talks a little bit in the documentary about how? The Broadway. Musical Well, he GotTa. Wonder. Maybe some of this was kind of sour grapes for it because he he was not really ever commercially successful on Broadway, but he he was very successful off Broadway. Little you know little shop was legitimate hit. You know but never played in according to Hoyle According to Hoyle like Broadway. In the box there's like a box of four streets that defines the Broadway district and and it never you know as always sort of downtown and But he talks about how kind of the Broadway musical does not translate to other media and how people people won't accept it and. You started to get into your thoughts about that. But I know I know you had some more thoughts about like what? What that means today when you know suddenly like Broadway as cool and relevant again. For, a variety of reasons and anything worth going into at this juncture. All man also just very. Thrilled that Jordan's exegesis there and I'm curious what he thinks about the guests Dong 'cause I've known that songs great to and I just can't quite crack the genius of amusing using Antler zone all of his decorating but it's there I know some day. But yeah. So the idea so okay. So Broadway. I'm curious. One thing I'm curious about that loves to learn more about with regards to Broadway is how in win the Broadway audience really shifted I would love. You guys know what the Broadway audience looked like in a like one, thousand, nine, hundred, sixty, two in terms of how much was a ticket who got to go where people travelling there from other places. Right was what was going on that people were going to Broadway shows at the time because it's become had become certainly prior to Hamilton I would assume is is is still as such just because I have no better ideas. Much more of a of an entertainment for kind of upwardly mobile daughters and mothers, these very very female focused in terms of the audience wicked. Of course, was the huge show for a long time. And I, just I don't know where how that changed. I'm wondering why as I'm thinking about this and going through it is is a wondering if If, WE WANNA frame because they everybody in his documentary seems to want to frame Howard Ashman work in accordance with a social narrative that they feel strongly about and I'm thinking well, why don't we do that to? Sort of arbitrary and his sister says, well, he wasn't political right? Eat He just wanted to he was empathetic and he would put himself in the shoes of other people and that's how he's able to write musicals and no the mob and beauty and the beast isn't the same as the as the people who are you know? Oppressing and. And persecuting gay people for having AIDS for daring to get an illness right that infects humans. It's not a metaphor. It's it's just him sort of identifying with the situation but what would it makes me think of is okay. So this guy comes out of. Will the Midwest first of all right? I mean, where where did you grow up again Baltimore? Baltimore Good Morning. Baltimore than eight goes. He does gets his art degree in Indiana right and then he because we get complaints in talks about how he's not really connected to the other. Broadway elites at the time that he and the Broadway up and comers. So all went to Yale course the best school as high at the headlines Constantly remind us through its flawless execution and. All things. Of. Quarter man. You. Sometimes. You ever think sometimes you gotTA stop living up here start living down here. The Yeltsin sculptors of. No No. No we were the high point. We were the greatest. But no no. No. What I'm trying to say is I'm wondering what the role of Howard Ashman work is in the revival of Broadway as an entertainment for mothers and daughters. which I think kind of kept it alive for a while when when I mean when I was working in nonprofit and Feeder researched the theatrical audience was the research on the audience was showing that was overwhelmingly female. Which of course, is not reflected in the people who are necessarily right in the show's all time, which is an issue with the audience. The audience for nonprofit theater was overwhelming or the audience for commercial within. The broader theatrical audience in particularly Broadway Well, if you're trying to put on a show, you know what kind of audience you try and target and why? And I want to look at the demographics shirt I mean the. Speaking of the eighties in particular, right like when when Howard Ashman was having his career the the kind of British invasion happened right in like camera Macintosh and the really useful group. Producing all those Andrew Lloyd Webber. Musicals was. You know the big. The big hotness at least that's the kind of the headline story, the main historical thrust. In the like history written by the victors sense. That I'm aware of so like I think Phantom of the opera was. Nineteen eighty six. Or thereabouts in one one, all the Tony's. Evita, which is you know smaller and more experimental had had come before lake cats had come before. You know like so that that that is what was what I recall going on. At the at the time at least in in my understanding history, right. So I found I found a research report year, which looks like it's pretty recent from the Broadway league that sped said that I don't know whether this is twenty, nineteen, thousand, nine, hundred, twenty, eighteen, but it or may be it's earlier year that said that there were. Sixty, six percent of the audience is female on Broadway. which again, it's like, that's a lot you know. Especially when it's an area that's also very often credited as being an enthusiastic. Cultural. Rallying point for gay men right in particular like Howard Ashman. Sixty six percent of the audience is female, and so there's the extent to which musical theater kind of lives in a post. Little Mermaid world. Is Sort of conjecture that I'm putting out there right now that that. We saw this kind of. Cross pollination from off Broadway theatre trying to kind of change Broadway into Disney which then have mutated into this broader crossover cultural phenomenon, which then goes back to and then manages to cross Broadway and now you can see I mean think about how many shows how many power aspirin shows have played on Broadway in recent years bunch I mean little trouble harsher has right so it's sort of like. You know the final the final vindication, but I mean I don't know when you're off all three of those. Howard ash rid own making musicals became actual Broadway shows. Yeah. In recent years even though it's funny it's like they're so filming great the way they're written. If you think about the beginning of the Little Mermaid, it's like starts on a boat and then it has epic sort of Montages this Fisher to swim through the water and dramatic underwater castle and you know you have thought at the time it's like. Well, this is fundamentally can't do this on a stages something that had to be written for the screen, but they did it you know everyone's roller skates. Wait is that really what they did? In the Little Mermaid get a lot of the the way they did the swimming thing like a lot of the the actors are gliding across the stage on roller skates and they're dressed like trains gets. Just like A. And word. and. All that cocaine. What to say about it? Go for it. I can speak a little bit to the like the feeling on this of the Broadway. Audience I I heard. Probably mangled the point that she was making, but I I heard a interview with scholar named Stacy Wolf who has written about kind of the the broader spread of Broadway musicals through America, and apparently there's this vector of summer camps for girls often summer camps explicitly, for Jewish girls where like. Everyone would be sent to these things and they would put on these musicals. And you would kind of get indoctrinated into Broadway musicals at camp for like your formative years and then when you go to visit New York, you're like finally I see Broadway and you bring the whole family kicking and screaming with you. Or maybe just your daughter who has gone to like the same camp as you. So there's this interesting way in which like and like. To a certain degree less gender but. But not entirely on gendered High School theatre departments do the same kind of thing where like you all across America get kind of seated with the idea of Broadway and then when you're in New York you go and because theatre departments in general are like. If they're not exactly. Female spaces they're certainly spaces where like certain kinds of masculinity that are rife in high schools are typically not encountered. Right. So if you wanted to get a lot of for instance women and gay men excited about an art form like putting it into high school theatre departments would be a great way to to make that happen and the seems to have sort of been what happened. But that trend goes way back into the nineteen teens if I'm remembering Oh. Wow interview. Interesting interesting because I'm thinking like I. Know People who are men who went to Jewish summer camp and did Broadway musicals. Right like our Schechner did guys and dolls. So long this podcast. There will not be pictures posted. This all it's funny because it connects back it connects back then kind of to the pre airline days right and the notion of where could you travel to when you couldn't fly and the kind of campaign resort culture and this is like the sort of dirty dancing over to or paradigm, which is like you're you're not you're going out you're going somewhere we all going too far away. You're still within striking distance of New York. And the center of all that stuff that's just is so interesting. I guess I guess. Pretty much exactly that yeah. Yeah I mean I guess what this raises to me is sort of like sort of what remains right because one thing that the the documentary doesn't go into is is really what happens to this Disney animation renaissance after Howard Ashman passes away, which is the Lion King is the the answer? They get tim rice to come in and finish his work on Aladdin and probably change it in ways he never would've liked. Which is why I kind of hesitated to do any Aladdin related close readings. I. Don't know which of the lyrics are rice lyrics versus Howard Ashman lyrics. But but. But then they do lion king, which feels so different and it was really enlightening because I never even knew that this guy existed I didn't know who this person was prior to watching this memory Elton John At. L. John I watched this documentary called which was about Elton John, and how he wrote the Lion King. The main the main focus of the movie. But. No, you know what I mean. I didn't didn't know that you know between the aristocrats and the emperor's new groove. There was a sort of burning shooting star. Of the sort of impassioned in perfection mystic artist who died of AIDS, right like whilst dying of. AIDS. You know spent his remaining stamina enchanted by Angela lansbury telling the director beauty and the beast how teapots work greg like it's it's I. Didn't know that this sort of confluence of human drama. And commodity. Production was all happening at the same time I didn't know this was the story. All I knew was that when you watch this sort of Disney sing along ones, there's the ones that are kind of the ones you recognize that really good and the ones that are kind of not so good right you know everybody wants to be a cat and all that stuff. We are Siamese. Me's is prob. Matt. L. Thing is problematic especially problematic but then we then there's these are the ones that are good. Not that the other ones bad. But as a kid, it's like Okay Little Mermaid beauty and the beast. In I. I is it just the fact that these were the ones that were coming out when I was the right age to come across them and watch them and the ones before that you know just were just. They were also good in their own way and I just wasn't. They weren't mind. They weren't of my generation. What is it that caused them to stop what this all happen I mean how many conversations have we had on this very podcast about this very topic Howard Ashman hasn't even come up let alone the fact that he died of AIDS right? It's like it's kind of fascinating. Here's the other thing is like. This. This was probably the moment in the documentary step away from talking about the Lion King. This was the moment about the documentary me the hardest other than the crying at the end, and then I felt really was pertinent to the modern situation, which was that the production of beauty and the beast at one point. You know. Howard Ashman tells. Jeffrey. There was it was it. was running. We're WHO's running Disney animation at the time. Yeah. Tells Jeffrey Katzenberg that he's got this fatal illness this fatal incurable illness and his health is going to be declining while he continues to work on this project and Katzenberg, is like you know we're going to give you whatever you need but I can't tell anybody why right? I can't tell people that you have HIV. and. That's not him making that up I. think that was also probably how Howard attribute fillets about situation as well. Right like like this is a private thing. Don't tell everybody. So Katzenberg just orders everybody to pack up and move to upstate New York to be closer to Ashman and is like I'm going to have to tell them that we're doing this because you're a diva. which was a wonderful and it's like I'm going to tell you know he's he's just he's got that Oscar, right he's got the Oscar. He's got all the cloud and everybody is really frustrated and the people at the time didn't know why they were moving to upstate New York. We'll. They didn't know they knew of course, they knew for sure why they were moving their moving because Howard Ashman Oscar and he got to work from home and they all have to move into the country and this is really annoying right and and just the goal of understanding of the situation was was was just about so i. Felt. So bitter. Felt like such a bitter truth about the situation and also. So a of the moments there are so many situations where people think they know what's going on with somebody else another person and and there are so many situations where you think you know what's going on with a piece of art and where you think you can extrapolate from looking at the piece of art what was happening With artist who made it right and well, okay I I've read this book and in this book, there's all these symbols and then I can extrapolate from that. Oh, well, that means that the author felt this about this situation and like I can extrapolate what you know. Nathaniel Hawthorne felt about you know the confederacy even though it was years before it happened or whatever. Like this is what? I now know what F Scott Fitzgerald thought about the American dream because I read the great gatsby and it's like well, what about these like the critical pieces of information that you maybe don't have that would totally redefined what you think about it. I'm not GonNa Watch beauty and the beast again, the same way after realizing that it was this sort of Herculean final effort. Of this. Of, this guy who grew up doing shows for his little sister when they were latchkey kids with his. and his action figures right like. Wait. He says like hotels old time you know Tunas Oldest Song And they're singing about beauty and the beast and it's Like he has to make a disclaimer this was the line. Sorry. I think you were trying to get in L. Pause for a minute. You're trying to get in I don't want to monopolize to mill I was I was disciplined the dog I realized I wasn't on. Mute. You're talking to well, that's all very good because you know look there you go. I didn't know the essential fact of your situation, but I will say this. So in the title track of beauty in the beast, right when when one thing that always confused me about that song is. Mrs Potts telling chip that it's a fairytale. Right. So so if we looked so if you look at the lyrics to beauty and the beast, right, let me bring them up. And it's it's a great search viewed in the beast. It's like so much stuff. But if I look at the lyrics to the song, right Sutin Dion ones the area on Guerande ones can I just get the regular ones? Thanks very much. tells time choose it can be barely friends till someone unexpectedly tells all the time song as old as rhyme beauty and the beast. So that doesn't make sense to me as a kid right the idea that this is an old story. and. It and it doesn't make sense to me in the context of what's going on because presumably the reason that there's a fairy tale about beauty and the beast is because it happened. You know not necessarily believe that it was real, but it's like the the the it's not like the people who are in the. Situation are thinking like man this is a lot like a story that I read about a beast in and a woman and a rose right? It's like this is all happening to them for the first time I know I know now, of course, a lot about Meta right in about a Meta technicality and kind of camp and all these other self reflective. Ways of of alienating the story but but that also doesn't really feel like what Mrs Pot to sing to chip right? It's like you know by the way chip you know I've told you this story, a bunch of times since we were transformed into flatware by warlock or whatever it's like that's but but when you think about it in terms of like. That this is a guy. Again here I'm trying I'm trying to leap towards this person from the information. It's in the show based on the information that I've just learned about him but I'm not going to get there because I don't know if I know the essential facts but it but knowing little things changes so much so that this is a guy who wrote. Edgy President Edgy campy. Owned a theater company with his with his lover who was kind of. Framing the story as as a party boy who couldn't hold onto a relationship and who you know in the movies a little unkind and kind of blames him a little bit for everything that happens. But this idea that he had this or a passionate fair with this guy he grew up with and they tried to make a play happen and it didn't work right. Like they had to close down their theater company. He made other off Broadway plays, and in these Broadway plays off Broadway plays like reflecting on old movies and he's reflecting on old musicals and there's this through line through was work that he's concerned these old stories if I were to go see a show done by the Gold Dust Orphans here in Boston, which is a. camp. Gay Theatre Company Right, and LGBTQ I'm sure it's expanded its representation hugely but it's of the sort of thing that you would. You would see associated with guys like Harvey Scene Right into divine and and so on and so forth. I would expect that they could reference. You know this is like a fairytale because the base assumption is that it isn't a fairy tale and that's really kind of what I'm getting with a lot of this is like. The rediscovery of Disney ferrets these movies having seen this guy's life. Me Feel, like there's a reaching toward the fairytale that is happening. That is not just rooted in the idea that okay. These are public domain. The everybody likes them. Walt Disney really liked them and he cut his teeth doing fairytales. So we're also going to fairy tales it maybe that's the motive for why they do it. But but what the story is about has these additional reasons to latch onto these fairy tales. And I never would have thought listening to it that that when Mrs Pot is telling chip that this is like a fairy tale, it's that she's offering this kind of comfort that could be seen as analogous to the comfort that the brother is showing the sister with action figures on the dolls and the cowboys Ninian's right. That it's like we're GONNA I'm GonNa bring to you and understanding of our situation. That's kinder than the apparent reality, which is that we've been abandoned our parents like. If only briefly. By bringing you to this fantasy world but it but it's one that's going to be better than the one that you think that it's going to be. I mean I'm ranting a lot and I'm over thinking a lot but it's just like I mean did anyone else feel that their sense of any of these musicals was transformed by knowing about this person? Because I didn't know did you know all this stuff? It happened in the Sky and. I don't know what you're talking about I can. I can remember the first time that I heard that line about using antler's all of my decorating. The man who wrote much was dying and he knew that he was. The. The length of you're looking for his every inch of my body is covered in hair. Relax to be covered. The dizzy renaissance is like we think, where is it? What is play finally? I. See, that up to. Tell me. I think the conventional sense of it is that like it's a renaissance because started making good movies again, right does he got good again and that's why renaissance but it's also very self conscious return to an old formula we think like all. Fairytales but they're really not they asked for a long time I'm looking at the list of all the Disney movies, delays, real fairy tale of sleeping beauty nineteen, fifty nine. So that's like a full almost thirty years. And then you have a bunch of I guess like sorting the stone is kind of a fairy. Princess you the job they definitely do a lot of movies you know from the public domain, the jungle book and Robin Hood is not really like a fairytale. We're like you know ends with a wagging right and that I feel like you almost in the way that. The little shop of horrors they took. They updated it gave it a new spin and gave it heart where did have heart before? It's like. Aladdin beauty and the beast, Little Mermaid they are very much like returns to old formula but with like a certain new energy and and honestly it's I think it's interesting that like all three of those movies part of what makes those seem like a trilogy and makes the lion? King. Seem like it's a little bit of a a different strain is that like they're all very much like focused on this romance between the guy and a girl and they all end with a wedding very explicitly they end with these married the end. In a way that like you know of the Disney movies in the decades before really hadn't for awhile and also like most of the Disney movies or didn't partially because I think there's something problematic. To like the little. Mermaid beauty and the beast in the way that the story cold about like you know what? What is good at implementing in live in like you know what? A what a young teenage girls should. Dream, about and strive for don't. Conscious course correction in things like Pocahontas don't end up together or. Dame. Or they don't have together or like Milan where like it's sort of implied that they have together imported. You know that they. Evolved the formula but like these three movies are very here distinctions. The older Disney movies, but with a lot of you know modern. Rock or you know sort of a campaign. Of a Broadway. tropes you know that that that feel very modern and new. Mean at one and I think that actually the female characters do more. In these. In Cinderella and sleeping beauty and Snow White. They don't they don't have as much personality maybe. But another thing that I think underlines. The point that you're making here is if you go back to the fairytale sources for beauty and the beast little made and. And I allowed in like only one of those actually does that so. It'd be in the beast is your sort of catalog specimen, fairytale words weirdly psycho-sexual, and there's this kind of repetition. A lot of very, very thinly veiled. allegories for actual awakening and things like that going on in it and it does end up with. The. Getting married and living happily ever after a little mermaid of course, is Hans Christian Andersen. So it's all about how in fact the happy ending is that she? Dies, but she goes to heaven right There's a that amazing scene where she's realized that she's not going to marry the prince and her sisters show up and they're like, take this knife and kill him and you can go back to being a mermaid and she's like, no, it's better that I die and she casts herself into the sea thinking that her we'll be early destroyed. That's the happy ending in nonstructured Edison. Obviously, that's not how the little. Mermaid movie works and Aladdin is like the Arabian Nights, which would be a different tradition except. Think that this is something that we're not totally sure about but Latin is one of the stories that seems to enter the Arabian nights tradition when it's translated out of Arabic into French in the nineteenth century meaning that probably some French writer who is reading these these folktales from the Middle East and gets an idea for one that he thinks would work well as advantage. Comes up with calls, it a folk tale and sticks it in. It's fantastic and the way it's kind of this like sordid and source of a boy's adventure tale. The you know there is a Princess Mary's her it's more him marrying her is about him becoming a very fancy boy and then the actual story of Aladdin, goes on for much longer. Evil Wizard he's. Trying to get back and he gets it back for a while does something stupid but then? Manages to trick and like and it's just like it doesn't have that need structure. They don't get married happily ever after they get married and then. Nonsense Adventures because it's just kind of like a risk. So the fact that it is that like that very clear structure three times in a row is one hundred percent. Ashman and the rest of his collaborators it's not about the source of the stories that there. Yeah. because it's not because the source material is more very is more diverse we're. Sort of coming up on the the you know eleven o'clock number of our. Broadway musical slash Howard Ashman podcast here. So I think it might be, I think it might be time to sing our grand finale number and send it on. Send it onto the readers to do their summer camp versions of of the place. So we would love to hear in the comments, your thoughts about the Disney, renaissance about you know the the the form of I mean we didn't really say the h word a whole heck of a lot in in this podcast but it you know it's one that that. Might well have come up, and so I guess the connection to you know the current, the current generational Broadway mega hit as left as an exercise to the reader. If anyone wants to take that up in the comments on the show notes of this episode, we'd love to hear that this has been a great. Thanks so much guys for podcasting with everyone who's listening. Thank you very much for listening We'll be back next week with more overthinking a podcast till then visit us on the web at overthinking it where we subject the popular culture to a level of scrutiny. It probably on the proper. Kim.

Disney Howard Ashman Little Shop Aladdin Mr Jordan Stugz Howard Broadway Andrew Lloyd Webber America AIDS Ashman Right Lake Tim Rice bell Cole Porter spotify Pete Robin Williams Ken Burns Stanley Fish
DON HAHN (PRODUCER OF DISNEY CLASSICS) | Double Toasted Interview

Double Toasted

1:05:53 hr | 3 months ago

DON HAHN (PRODUCER OF DISNEY CLASSICS) | Double Toasted Interview

"With the new iphone se for less than one hundred bucks metro you rule it's the most affordable iphone, the number one brandon prepaid whether you're studying online or fees tiny. Hey Mom hi, dear the iphone Se has all you need switched to Metro and get the iphone se for ninety, nine, Ninety, nine after rebate redemption and six months of service with auto-pay Metro by t mobile rule your day. One per account slash household requires port ninety validation not valid for numbers currently on the T. Mobile Network on Metro impasse ninety days restrictions apply see store for details. Hey, everyone. Welcome. Once again to another double toasted interview, you know me I'm Korva Coleman. In the middle of the day. So it must mean that we're talking to someone pretty great and today we are always say it's an honor and always truly is, but today I I feel very very. This is my interview why sit back and I might stammer some of my words. You might see me to sit here and all this person right here I. Don't mean to make you feel uncomfortable Don while praising you slow much but people. Don't know the name. You would definitely know what the man has done a please welcome Mr Don Hahn over here producer extraordinaire producer of some of the greatest. Disney animated classics ever. Aladdin. Little Mermaid also, very talented man outside of that documentary filmmaker. And We're GONNA be talking about latest documentary which? You can find on Disney plus. Speaking of these animated classics that he has done first of all welcome. Don, to the show I appreciate you being here so much. Thank you Corey it's my pleasure to be here. and. I just wanted to show people very quickly. You latest work right here the documentary. Howard. This is. The documentary about Howard Ashman. Howard Ashman against speaking of some of these. Disney classics that speaking of He's the songwriter whose words had a huge huge influence on some of those works. Tragically died of AIDS at the age of forty if I am correct done. Yes and this is the documentary that you can now find again on Disney plus they use me. As lyricist the last great place to do musicals this nation and Howard. So we really have to have a serious. I'm sick. You know. Thank you again wants to once again don for being here and I want to start this off. Asking you let me actually make sure that everyone is here right now. Yes we are everyone is welcoming you also in our chat they saying legendary hello. Thanks for being here done. So people I appreciate you being here to a, let me just start off talking about the documentary if you wouldn't want to get into everything with you your career. Yourself but. Documentary that you have. You obviously in clearly had some. Great feelings. Towards Howard. Ashman. I'm. He was a he was a friend. So What was the inspiration for? Doing this documentary now was this was this something that you have been working on for a while or was it something then? Disney plus the platform actually presented an opportunity for you to do. I did it myself. I wanted to make it as independent movie and actually just need plus wasn't even around when I started it. So it was really I I knew Howard is said and we were we were colleagues we were like anybody else that you work with and what's funny is you think you know people you work with you usually don't really know them way I produced feeding the beast I I didn't produce every movie from the eighties or nineties. Believe me I just I did Beeston I did lion king and I did you know some of those but I really. Benefited by Howard and him being in the studio. If you remember back, then we weren't making that many movies, Disney that many animated movies they probably weren't a plus movies to be kind and But there was a young generation of people in the studio like John Muscular and and Tim Burton and John Lasseter and people were just coming into the studio out of college wanted to do great work. There is a great group of executives coming into the studio at the same time and then Howard had just had failure on Broadway and he came out to work with Disney at the same time. So that's why I want to tell that story because it was kind of a perfect storm of all those elements coming together and That made it really interesting, and and of course, most of us are our children grew up with those movies. so Howard. Lyrics and you just didn't know the story. There's never been a film or a biography or anything about him. You say he had is a failure on Broadway. What was that failure? Well he he had just done What he he? He came to New York in his twenties he was young man He moved to New York and started a theater which is in itself. Amazing because. You couldn't afford to do that. Now I mean you can't afford to live in New, York much less start with us. You had this little ninety nine seat theater in a warehouse on the second floor. And that's where he did plays and musicals like little shop of horrors which became a huge hit for him. After that he collaborated Marvin harmless. She was a huge Broadway composer who did chorus line And the two of them were doing a musical called. Smile. It was about a beauty contest. and. It just didn't work. It was open for I think it opened on Broadway in closed forty five days later it just didn't get good reviews and. For reasons it didn't didn't work. Out Or devastated by that and he cut frustrated with Broadway he never wanted to have these huge Broadway hits with thirteen hundred people crammed into a theater He was really more into intimate smaller shows. That's why his theater was only ninety nine seats. So it in the middle of that then he Got A letter in a call from a guy named Jeffrey Katzenberg who is the head of just e pictures at the time and civil wants come out and work with us. And the first thing he did was he worked with at Disney with Tina Turner on on on a movie called I Tina. Which I think eventually became What's love got to do with it or something like that? And what's cool? Is it my research? You found these great long tapes of Howard Tina Turner talking for you for hours while she's making sandwiches for lunch and stuff. So You. To, keep that at home in and. That was much more Friendly must were collegial much more collaborative navy and became a place where he was really comfortable. Yeah. Again. That's a lot of history that people don't know right there. In. With the. With his death. With him dying of AIDS at the, age of forty. In with you being so close to him. At the during the time that Disney did you have a confiding you about him being ill about him being sick at all now? Nope no, he never did. You have to get yourself back to that time in the which would have been the. Late eighties. And getting a diagnosis of the or of actually that would become AIDS. was like a death sentence. And is a very conservative government at the time I can frontal Reagan was the President, and he wasn't acknowledging that there was a crisis With AIDS, this epidemic that was sweeping through the community. Because it was seemed to be kind of a gay disease and it wasn't it ended up hitting every segment of the population. But In any case, you just got that disease. You just didn't declare it to anybody, and in fact, Howard didn't declare it really to Disney until it was much later and kind of obvious that he was sick. He didn't even tell on Mencken who was his songwriting partner until after Little Mermaid. So they had been through one of the Disney movies already. So it was just a protective era new and you just you were worried about losing your insurance you're worried about losing your job in some cases because there weren't those protective laws out there to. Protect people from the LGBTQ community so That's incredible. The to to see. Just much time has passed and I guess you could say, even progress you're you coming from a time when? People didn't want to tell the some of the closest friends what's going on with them. Very interesting. Cassette to you know that this person felt so trap that they couldn't express this to a lot of people. I think sometimes when you would tell your friends. You people didn't know what to do with that news. You know it's like I guess it's like saying I, I have cancer or I have covid nineteen. People are empathetic and they're sorry to hear it but they don't know whether to distance runaway your. You know and so there was a lot of suspicions surrounding it a lot of. you know just fear I guess, and you see it's ironic that were releasing as movie now because a little bit of that exists with the pandemic were kind of going through right now. But it was very much that way in in the eighties. So that's why Howard even moved out of New York and he he His partner is a really brilliant architect and they together built a house about of the city and Hudson. River. to have a future together, and sadly, they didn't really ever have a future together. that. Is Sad. You know you talk about him and his partner. Being over Disney I mean was it okay so the illness is something that. A lot of people couldn't come out with in saint anyone but what about his sexuality was something that was known and accepted at the studio at the time? Yeah I would say, so you know it's I think if you work in the entertainment business. Regardless of what your whether you're writer director, lyricist, songwriter, dancer whatever there's a lot of variety of sexual orientation in the arts and that's the thing you know people are a little more open about that in a little more accommodating and accepting So yeah, we had You know lots of. Gay Guys in the studio and lesbianism in all kinds of people studio and it was very accepted. So that was never a problem You know what's weird is this kind of thing you never talk about you know it it just it had. No, it just didn't matter. You know you would never talk about. Anybody Sexuality in in our work environment. Really. So factory was gay was not an issue at all. It was really more when he became sick it became. Just a awkward for him more than for us. Once we figured it out. We moved literally, move back to New York to work with him. You know at first we thought he was just being diva about his You know. He just wanted to ask you for a Little Mermaid and we thought, oh, he's just being a a diva. And but we did I took the whole story crew back there Linda Woolverton writer. Alan Making r composer we moved into a hotel in upstate New York to work with Howard, and then later we found out why we were doing we were doing because he was sick and he couldn't travel. Again people you know just to show you what? How much time has passed and how much difference has been We've made you know you look at stories like that and have to say you know especially during times like this. It it seems very very seems very dire right now, very bleak do people in we kind of lose sight at the progress that we have made during that time. You know in here and you say this, that's even conspiring to know that people don't have to go to that. Now like what you tell me people had to go through back then s that's very nice. Yeah that's a it's a really good point because you. Know there's no question we're going through some. Challenging Times right now. in pretty much every way. put. Ethics Human Beings. Sadly, you know we go through those things. I suppose that's why we make movies and tell stories because it's It gives people hope and Entertains people takes your mind off of these things and And we have made progress and we really have, yeah you to to move to more positive note about Howard Ashman. You hear someone like A. Legendary animator Glen Keane. In the we are talking about. How much how it Ashman music and his lyrics have had an influence on these films. In. The creation of for the animators themselves in the creation of the characters, the life that they gave them and I got a clip right here from I. Think this is your director debut wh-, Waking Sleeping Beauty. Yes. where he actually blink Keane actually speaks. On this how much Howard Ashman? Lyrics just long had an influence on him one into, do the animation for aerial and the Little Mermaid in almost every every written just captivating. I have to do that. And I went and told those guys I. Really Want to do aerial. How much of How asthma it's. Music and lyrics. How much of that? Did it have an influence on on the visuals of these animated movies that we've known to do to to watch and love throughout the years? Well, it had a tremendous amount to do with it because you take a song like under the sea where the lyrics are all about Darling. It's better down where it's wetter. Take it for me. You know he's he's constantly talking about you know fish playing instruments and Calypso music and all that kind of stuff, and so you're. You're storyboarding that and animating it. Based largely on what he's saying in those lyrics. or in the the opening of beating the beast is a five minute song and he's you know the lyrics are look there. She goes the girl who so peculiar and she's reading a book that says that in the lyrics and of course, we wrote that I before it was musical is but the Asong is a huge advantage to An animator in a filmmaker in general because it's like this, just a big piece of entertainment and what Howard did so well, better than anyone at the time was to put the plot in the song. He would take the story and it stick it right in the middle of the song. So you have a song like Like a severe C. which and now Little Mermaid Ariel meets her he. She doesn't even know Ursula exists and two minutes later she signing her voice away. So there's so much plot in those songs and that's what makes a good musical and I think before Howard, we were making movies with some with a few songs in them. But that wasn't a musical. What was a musical was having a film where the essential big emotional moments were in the songs. So the love song and the you know the entertaining sought. Gas Or something like that. Those were all plot songs that told you the story and move story ahead You know that's a again people. I'm sure you can. See some of this itself in the documentary. That don has on Disney plus right now, which is Howard. Howard the story of how it Ashman. Career Disney influence on these animated films that again, we've grown to love throughout the years are masterpieces. Now consider be peace in the second Golden Age of animation. Disney and you can watch documentary right now on Disney plus and if you're just tuning in. I am talking to Don Hahn Don. As we've just tell you is. Filmmaker you can see his documentary right now Howard on Disney plus and he is also Produce extraordinaire, which is why I want to switch to his career right now, we've talked about Howard Ashman you are a fascinating person yourself. You know you've been. Apart of so much film history. You worked with slow many legends. You produce some of the biggest animated films of all time as I said. That's how start out interview. You know we talked about how you're at producer of. Lying. When the most successful in the most successful animated movie of All Time You produced. Beauty and the beast beating the beasts being. The, first animated film to Be Nominated for best picture. I come from a background animation. I told you there was a lot of history that meant a lot to me. That's not one of the ones I was really talking about right there. But that is a huge win that meant a lot to me to see in animated movie be nominated for Best Picture. For animation and be taken seriously that was almost validation for. Our former animation. Again. That's why I say. It's truly an honor to be sitting here. Talking to you I love these movies as much as anybody else does but to talk to somebody who's behind him being made the creation of man probably wouldn't be here if you weren't here. Is Truly UH. Overwhelming the me. which brings me to the question. You know with you haven't done so much and I'm just going to be straight forward this do. You. Know do you get up in the morning and look at wall of accomplishments and you say to yourself? You know what I yeah you. Truly a bad S in Hamas. I'm just GONNA. Go ahead and say it. have. You done so much that you just like to know what this just another day being me ain't. No Ain't no big thing. You know I mean, how is it being the producer behind these huge movies now I I I don't think that way In animation is you know it's such a collaborative sports you know. You can't point to one person in any movie in my opinion and say, Oh that's you know Don's movie or whatever that takes so many people in so many major contributions from directors and voice actors, musicians, animators, So I always look at it as more of a team sport that if we got a best picture nomination, it was we all did because it's the truth you know it's I i. Can't let your ego kind of take you away because the truth is the there's just GonNa be another movie after that and you have to start with a blank piece of paper and your ego does absolutely no good. You know it doesn't help you make better movie. So you might feel good for awhile and certainly proud for a while but no, I wake up every morning. Terrified. Think of. Some ideas and some new ways to express myself or New People to collaborate with. And That's what gets me excited. You know the the working with interesting people telling an interesting story. I is something I love I. Love I. Love Storytelling in love the people to tell stories. That's where I get my buzz off of and enjoy. It's the awards and all that stuff is is wonderful but I try not to think about that honestly because it doesn't really doesn't help you it doesn't get you anything What gets you something a hard work of just pulling together a team of people jumping into a project. Nas that's great to hear man I mean especially being working in an industry where this so much eagle involved. I got a quick question. This is the kind of a key question right here statue behind you those statuettes, the animators used. On the art there That's the east over here in. Mrs Potts above him and then on the other side is a guest on. And those are animator maquette. So we made those back in the. Probably Ninety when we were making the movie and those become a drawing models for the animators to us so On a call I, am lucky to have a few of them around. So That's what they are as funny. You're not think I've actually seen some making of behind the scenes documentaries where I think I've seen those kiss actually used. In the scene. So Nice. Very cool. Have you. Of course not ask names anything. But you know being that you are working in a business would huge egos I mean you clearly a very humble which is. Very great to see but then these productions do you often run across a lot of Egos that you clash with? I have to honestly say an animation not so much in some of the live action movies. Absolutely. There's something more raw and more Vulnerable and often more ego shows up when you have a live action. Film, you're trying to shoot in a short period of time. There's. A lot of pressure for who has the bigger dressing room or the bigger trailer or all that stuff. and that's really unpleasant in animation it. You know I I I don't know how to grab it. But those of you listening will know this it's just more of a family collegial kind of group because it's damn hard to do an animated movie. And And also in animation the best idea wins it's not you don't say well, I'm going to do Don's idea because don. Won An award or done is bigger than all of us. That's horrible. You go with an idea for your movie or a story idea or a character design because it's the best idea. So you're not you're not trying to Power someone's ego by doing. Yes. Whatever you say don you know? Whatever you want. That's fine. That's what we're GONNA do. It that way in animation, you really sit around a table and trying to come up with the right idea and and then make that as good as you can. How much of a role does produce a have when it comes to, it's probably different for every project probably different for every studio. But I you know the movies that you've you produce how much of a role does it produce a have in those animated films? Well if it's very hands on, it's It's it's almost to produce eighty GAM- by his deputy. Look the like Walt Disney was a producer about this. He never was director a producer of his films You know. So I'm no Walt Disney for sure but you you really have a lot of opportunity as a producer. my main job though is pulling together a team of people and then supporting them. So it's a funny way. It's Kinda servants job because at least I do in every producer, does it differently at every producer produces differently in? That's probably good. But for animation I like to pull together interesting people, great directors, writers, Art Directors, animators in your kind of building a team like a football team and trying to get them to collaborate and trying to give them the tools they need whether it's a or pencils or paper trying to go on field trips to educate them on Lion King, we went to Kenya and. studied. By lie went to this dude. Lines. So you do your best to with that team together and and that goes back to people like our day and Alan again or John and Tim Rice. You know you're you're trying to add a musical components those teams That is the best you can do, and then really you stay out of the way it's like they don't need help. You know I don't have to sit in there in a health Howard, Ashman rights and lyrics. I need to stay out of his way and make sure he has everything he needs to do his best work. So. That's really my job. Now this. Question I'm about to ask. No Way that? This is going to sound a little heavier than the way I'm putting it right now but but but. Do you am I asking you to to bad mouth something if I ask this. Good. Yeah. Good. But by the by no means, you've obligate even answer. I'm not as dirt anything. I just state that. This is the obvious question to ask while I have you here so. You know you. You'VE A. You've been such a part of these animated classics you know throughout time throughout history. And these these these classics that you've been involved with. Now, you start to see and I think the ones that you have done. Now you starting to you probably know where I'm going with this. Those a all the ones that you produced at least one I know of Aladdin. Beating the bees and the lion king a true. So. System what he can give. The. Live action remake of the Lion King is what we're looking at right there. What are you feelings towards seeing that the movies that you have had such a huge part of being turned into live action remakes. Well it's odd. You know it's like somebody taking your child and you know changing his clothes and shaving his head looking. It's different thing. but overall I feel good about it because you have people like with Lion King Jon Favreau or built Bill Condon directed beating the beast. they put in a tremendous amount of effort to rise to the occasion and. John Tower is a brilliant director you know He. He's Probably, one of the best working today. So when he takes a story that's a good feeling. Technically it was an amazing feeling voice cast was amazing on that movie and I always believed that stories are made to be told you know it doesn't do any good to have lion king parked in the garage and just sitting on a shelf. We read you know even though it's an original story that we've made up it's not it's not totally original. It's based a little bit on some Bible stories like Joseph Story or the Moses Story based a little bit on hamlet's. pure journey story. So we steal and borrow liberally from other stories for the last few centuries. makes sense for other people to remake them. So overall I I, like it may have different feelings about the movies themselves, but overall it's it's it's good. It's meant to be in stores meant to be told my welcome that. Yeah. Good to hear because I think that you of hit on something right there that you know when you say that the Lion King, any of the stories not meant to be put there on a shelf whether you like these movies are not. I know they've been very divisive towards a lot of people but. The bottom line is that. You know the not meant to just sit there as you say are. The one that is sitting there. You will always have that one and then you have this. Always put in the original lion king and some people like to do that I. Think you can even like if you subscribe to A. Plus or something, you can see the original lion king. So you have choices and that's the other reason why I never minded 'cause nobody's burning the original negative that'll be there but there's some really wonderful performances and things in these newer movies and look beyond say just did on the Disney channel with her big kind of. extended. Music Video. It's visually spectacular in it's inspired by the lion king and I feel like, yeah. That's what people should do. Yeah. Nah No you know. What maybe now that people hear from you, they'll settle down. It'd be quiet. It's like if you don't like it, don't go You know if if you look at Walt Disney's career any name director they including how it Aspen. they're great at adapting things, Disney took stories like Nokia and Snow White and. Bambi, all of which existed either as books or as fairy tales and just retail old them and change them up a little. Really, original it's horrifying. So Disney can do it. That's fine. Howard would take things like Little shop of horrors he would say, let's take fifties girl group rock and roll and combine it with this. Roger. Cormon Monster Movie, and that's going to be a little shop of horrors or let's adapt Hans Christian. Andersen's little. Mermaid and put that with reggae music and Caribbean, and that'll be little mermaid. So he was graded adapting and retelling things you know in his all of his hits, it had an early musical called God bless you Mr Rosewater which was an adaptation of Kurt Vonnegut. So you know there was nothing original about this source material, the woes original, and what was brilliant about Howard was that he? was able to. Earn that into You know something was fresh and interesting and somebody wanted to see So I, you know it's it's the nature of life in the arts y'all do it. No. Definitely right about about what you're saying about these adaptations when people get upset about. Scenes up to Maitland. It usually get upset because you take a love and I feel like I own that. His is my. You know when you went back to Howard Ashman, you're right Like the theme of this interview of what we're doing here is talking about how we take things and make them different little shop of horrors was was definitely way different than the the original. Film which was more funny and just very much more cheap shop of horrors. Seeing people take things and maybe not necessarily making it. Lesser a better, but seeing and making their own things that led up to some of the greatest things that we have. Right now sure. You Know I. I want to talk to you now those let's get to the part where. I said that you are. A part of history that I just completely in love with from childhood that stay with me today. and You a part of that. I'm a huge fan. Of the animator. Dom, booth. I would say that if anybody had an influence on kind of what I'm doing today, even if it's way different than what I, what I'm doing today from animation Don blue probably had a big. Influence on me on that. Dom Booth as If. He became very popular with the mainstream with things like dragon's lair. He did the secret NEM. A lot of movies that a lot of people grew up with. That's one of things I got me into them dragon's lair because I was a huge video Gamer in animation fan having those two things come together was monumentous in my life. But the thing that I want to bring up is a something that a lot of people even something biggest fans of dom blue don't remember a whole lot. and. That is now believed that this is you can correct me because you were there. I think the first thing that he did. On his way out of parting with Disney. A was this. I guess you could say it's a short. Banjo the woodpile cat you probably recognize the voice and the about to play. Stick with you kid you stick with me. gathered. Over. The reason why I bring this up is because in my Obsessive. Reading of a dom blue and his history I remember them talking about how he was He was working on on Banjo the woodpile cat and his garage. At nights while he was still working at Disney on his way to I, guess trying to make his own studio and you were there during that time. I was so first of all. That's incredible to me. I wrote a letter to Dom Blue I. Remember when you when I was a kid I ryan loves allowed like around. I guess twelve eleven I was like I remember you working on of pocket I had that movie and I love it. And unfortunately he I think he had moved to Ireland. So the letter gas in back so I never got. To read. But Close to it right now. The reason why I bring that up is because you're part of the history that obsess over the other is. Being with their so your producer. filmmaker are you also an artist and animator? Well I I was a music major in in college. And so my background is music and art I'm a painter and And animated for a while but I saw pretty early on I wasn't going to be a great animator. Also like sitting at a drawing board for forty fifty hours. A week was really hard for me I. Think I'm probably a little attention deficit. So the the chance to work in a in a job that involves more people and more challenges in more variety. I. Guess was something that was a better fit for me but I loved animation. I didn't want to go off and do something else. So that's where I kind of migrated into. Production Management and then producing eventually But my some of my really early experiences were with people like Don blue the night i. really value that because I was I was twenty years old when I started working for Don. I work with in Disney I was his assistant like I would fill out his checkbook and take his dry cleaning in. wrinkly whatever. On the weekend begin, we would go to his house, and as you say, we're GonNa Banjo and that was like free school for me. You know he was a chance to sit there with people like John Pomeroy, Gary, Goldman, and all these great innovators that was the first time I. got to shoot on animation camera or paint a cell or do an inbetween learn all that stuff for a twenty year old kid on at school it was an amazing Just. Luck to be able to to fall into that. Don was really good at you know he was done was around at Disney during sleeping beauty and he was we looked to him as kind of the the older more mature, more experienced mentor to all of us and We're really loyalty him. And rightly. So he's really talented guy not just in terms of his drawing and draftsmanship. Of His music I think a song that you just played was Probably. Written. By can't have them. I think I was there that day when we recorded that song, which is scary because that was probably nineteen, seventy, eight nine when we recorded that so So yeah, I have a lot respect for John you know when he still added he and Gary Goldman thicker down in Arizona, and they still talk about doing some Some shows from time to time. So he's he's the real deal. Yeah. No I. Think, he's incredible and I think it's incredible to a you know all the. Different brands of history that have shot off from that you know. Screw. Knowing that how that's a that's a jump from clean his underwear to being the producer of beauty and the beast in like. I had help hit it took A. Good ten years or so. So it wasn't like it happened overnight. But Disney was always instill is a place where you can. Move around and flex your muscles and Back, then animation wasn't a big deal. You know the Disney animated film every four years, and you know it's there weren't any other studios really except for dumbly than maybe a a Ralph actually or something doing animation it was not a very popular thing which is hard to believe because now everybody's animation there's twenty five or thirty movies a year so. You know At a love here in those, how different how people have a different approach to to animation I mean, you'd think that Working Eddie disc at Disney animation nest the dream job, and then I hear people who have this whole thought of a Tim Burton included I'm thinking one of those people to kind of like, Hey, you know what this is this is awesome I love animation, but I just can't see myself being at this desk all day draw like this. Yeah Yeah I'm I'm I'm the same way I I realized early on to is like it hurt at first because I. All I want to do grownup was animation, and then I was like you know what I'm not very good at this. So. I was the same way and I just I grateful that I could see because I would see people like Glenn Keener Brad Bird, or you know other people that were really good animators and I wasn't and then I knew that and I wasn't necessarily a director either I wasn't going to be somebody who is like a Tim Burton type So I was lucky to kind of do what I did 'cause my artistic background made me really appreciate how hard it is to draw a hardest to come up with a story and now so I always had respect and still do great respect for the people who work in animation. Yeah Yeah. I'm like you. I still love it. I think I'm under the right circumstances okay at it but man, there's some people that would just I would look at me and I'm like May to shame if next to you and I just I want to feel like. I get it. I understand you know. Continuing with the animation and again, you know talking about some of the moves you've done like. Again, PEOP- people I'm having a conversation with Don Hahn Don Hahn produce extraordinaire produce lion, King Beauties Aladdin also documentary filmmaker. You can find his documentary Howard about songwriter. Howard Ashman on Disney plus who also had a big influence on these big classic masterpieces animating masterpiece from Disney. Not, GonNa step outside of those huge successes. Dislike anybody who might have a long illustrious career as yourself. There are some moments where they're not going to always beat up. And you're gonNA have some downs. A. You worked on. A movie that. I liked but I saw the flaws in it. You worked on the black cauldron. This was a PG animated adventure fantasy. was even a little dark but something that they had done I thought that that was a for me somebody who wants to see animation be accepted outside of just. Being seen as something for kids that stigma that's on it, I thought that that was incredible that Disney had done that I really was rooting for to do well which. If my mind serves me correct it did not. I, think was even considered. A flop for Disney at the time. Yeah, it was really expensive. And that contributed to it, and it just wasn't that great of a movie. It's full of good works when. Nobody sets out to make a bad movie So the producers directors on that movie were really experienced guys from Disney from years and years. And and I think the the goal the aspiration was to do something like you said, do a kind of adventure movie that was a little older. You know for up for a more general movie audience of just kids or famine place. To learn a lot of lessons, the group on that movie that animated it was young really young it could certainly be Dark Walt. Disney's movies were really dark at times. You think Obama's mother getting killed or you know Snow White Getting, poisoned by a witch in dying screen. They were always not afraid of that but it's also trying to bring some entertainment and some just just good storytelling to it all in in colored didn't quite come together as a story It did feel a little dark. At the end of the day and you don't want anybody to to save that in the reviews but people were saying you may not want to take your kids. It's a little dark and that's the kiss of death. So. As much as we tried, it was a a tap quickly designated. Expensive. Halfway through a a new management came into the Disney studios like listener. Jeffrey Katzenberg came into. Disney. And try to make some changes for them, and it just became a really tough movie to make so good people with good intentions, but it just didn't come together. You know when you? Put so much time because as you stated in his anybody. Who knows anything. About. Animation. Expensive. Time consuming. On that scale. What's it like? Putting years of work into something a huge project that involves so many people and then just filling like it's Kinda rejected in a in a week. When it's put out there. What does that feelingly? Yeah, I mean in some cases in a weekend Some movies it's it's painful. We all know that feeling I. We all know the feeling of. You know whether it's a piece of art were doing or A. Something doing for boss at work or for our family that doesn't work out is disappointing. Yuck. Hugely disappointing for anybody. You see that like we were talking about Howard's disappointment of smile on Broadway and it just laid him out for six months where he just didn't do anything But you know sometimes things can stand the test of time like I worked at a movie called Emperor's new Groove, and at the time it wasn't a huge box office success people went inside but You know it's it's become this kind of cult movie and people love it now. So you never know what's GonNa Happen. even movies like Finocchio and some of Disney's movies were not big successes when they came out So sometimes time will. Shed light on a movie that maybe wasn't that popular when it first came out yeah. Yeah. No. I hear, people. When they come out because look I'm guilty of this too. We kind of found it this whole thing on just doing move reviews being critics of quote unquote critics and I there's a certain amount of guilt on both sides on the creative side of something and appears. Spectator audience member there's I don't know if a lot of people feel it but there's a lot of guilt that goes into my part when I see this, I almost wanted to stop it sometimes even for when the worst movies out there I realized there's a lot of people that work on this and there's somebody needs the Liz. Weeks months years of work they're going to this and then people are just trying to tear it down in a matter of minutes you know. And I know there's there's a empathy that goes there man that's what that's what brought me to ask that question like to ask that question of everybody just to get individual answers because I can't understand you know and everybody thinks you make this move you get your money and your fine I'm GonNa be okay. I'M GONNA go onto the next one and it's like Nah I mean this Kinda heartbreaking when that happens. Yeah I I mean. I. Don't do it just for the money I think you I go to and I think probably one hundred percent of the people that I work with do it because they love it And they love the art form and they love making movies and Yes. You have to get paid and yes you have to pay your bills and stuff but you do it because it's it's fun. It's challenging. It's impossible and when it's done, right? It's exciting. Thrilling and So I hope Springs Eternal and you always want to try and That's the tough thing about the movie business. It's especially since some of the movies get so expensive that you may only get two or three times to try and your career to direct a film you know really. And that's sad because there's great directors out there that only get a few a few chances It's a little bit easier with producers because you can have several projects going. So I probably done a lot more in terms of the numbers of films but yeah it's like any. You just get really disappointed and upset I don't come together. Everybody, tries to make a good movie. No, I get it again I mean it's one thing you have to consider what some of the worst movies this not just one solo effort you can take it undirected, but there's a lot of people involved. But wrap things up a little bit and also as we do that, we're going to kind of steer out of animation. I mean. You know again, we could go on and on about how much done in animation you know you've done and you worked with some amazing people out there in in addition to the people that we've also talked about you know Steven Spielberg Kathleen Kennedy. Believe you were producer on the Roger I don't know how many Roger. Like two or three rabbit shorts I know you worked on Tummy trouble that was shown before honey I shrunk the kids and I. Don't know if there's any any any interesting stories you'd like to put in there on that you can. I was just showing the people again, you'll your long roster of animated projects that you've worked on. Very. Very old. First. Movie I, was a stilted produced to with WHO framed, Roger Rabbit and we did that we shot it in London. We did the nation in London Richard Williams and so that was a big break for me to work with those people because Bob's a Meka's who directed that movie is brilliant and then his support group like Steven Spielberg and Kathleen Kennedy and Frank Marshall were brilliant. They learned a lot in. Really, had a time in that movie when I came back the first thing I did as of physics full producer credit was tummy trouble. But that you just showed and that was perfect for me because it was a short, it was pretty quick to get it done and at the time we were trying to keep Roger Rabbit until the sequel could come out 'cause there was an idea to do a sequel. It over the years, there's been a number of scripts and ideas and I don't not to the level be a sequel but they're great characters in the movie was hugely popular. Oh. Yeah. Let me come took. This town land and So that was a real treat able to work on that movie in a in a great start and I. think that's what the hallmark of my career I think. I've been at work really hard and I try to do a good job as we all do but I've been really lucky to work with some great people on the way in have learned as much as I could from them and and I'm sure they learned from me if I can offer them something so that that's the key is to try to find some really interesting people to collaborate with in You know try to put that team together in and learn as much as you can because everybody's different. Yeah. That's. That's interesting. I'm glad we did bring this up because I have a question on net. Why was there never sequel to Roger, rabbit? WHO framed, Roger L, zero attempt there were scripts about it. With all kinds of different story ideas about where Roger came from how Roger Met Jessica all that stuff and it just never quite gained together because it takes a number of planets to come into alignment for a movie to come together you need a, you know the right script it's working that everybody likes you need the AH director that's available. You need your know your cast, your animation crew, all that stuff, and that was a really complicated movie because it was not just Disney animation. It was Disney Warner. Brothers animation and Animation. From every major studio plus live action. So it was like making movies. So it's very expensive to make and it has to be a great script to begin with and the pieces have never come together. Yeah, you know I. Guess because our remember that's that's interesting. I I remember hearing from where that you know this was an attempt to just make Roger Roger Rabbit huge character, and that's why they would put this out there. You know what? The Not happen the sequel who Raj revenue you laid it out right there I just never considered how much of A. Gigantic. Everybody was jabbering live made were those shorts and He's a great character in their son characters to animate Roger and Jessica dating. A really fun to draw So those were great and who knows someday maybe somebody will come back with another idea and. A sequel or a cartoon get made who knows yeah. I hope so you know a couple of last things right here So. You know you you made. The switch to documentary filmmaking and I saw a clip. Where you were talking about how you know? Documentaries, the just. 'cause you. As you said, you love storytelling so much. I guess I can summarizes correct me if I've got this wrong but from that clip, it seemed like he was saying that there was something appealing about. Being able to tell the stories of real people in a real lives out there my correct in that. Yeah, you are I think after a certain point I just thought the world doesn't need another animated feature from Dawn. I did what I could and did the best I could. And I wanted another chapter in my life to be honest and Documentary started to speak to me. It's a first of all. It's become a golden age of documentaries. So the access to the equipment and the technology, and all that stuff is so easy to make a documentary on your cell phone. If you want to in factors, there's a horror movie that was just made on. On zoom out of zoom conversations. So the technology's all over the place to make a good movies. I wanted to also make movies about social issues and give a voice to people that didn't have a voice. So most of all of the films I've made have been about Soldiers returning from Afghanistan and you know the problems they come across or A. The pediatric AIDS crisis said you know those kinds of things? And it's just a different chapter. That's how I describe it and it's not to say I Aero Hate Disney or anything I. Love It. More than ever, actually probably doing more work for Disney than ever have right now. But as a as a profession I love to do is a work with a great editor and tell stories like Howard made a movie a couple years ago with great director. About tyrus Wong that Chinese American colorist who colored Bambi in style Bambi so I love those stories about artistic heroes because I think there's a lot of sports. Heroes is a lot of political heroes but to tell stories about artistic heroes is really important because there's a bunch of kids out there that need to hear those stories and need to, and I was one of them and need to hear that it's okay to have a career in a life that's in the is about expressing yourself and telling stories. So that's why I love to do those now in its in its something probably due for years to come. Yeah, it was such a huge. Turn for you to do that, I, have Have your documentary right here in all. We talk about the background you haven't animation, but you know you'd mentioned hand-held. Big. Detour from probably what people would associate you with normally. took off time from Disney in this is about the a as you mentioned about you follow Mike Carroll. Around? Mike is a was a Disney photographer shot a lot of the Disney magazine photos for a long time. But. He also was a journalist photojournalist and he went to Romania when the you know Soviet Union fell apart and he stumbled into this You, know crisis were all these children. These babies were warehouse basically and were contracting aids and he just fell in love with that story and wanted to help them and that's what that movies about and Mike still doing it. You know his organization now employs thirty or forty people. They earn well a funded and that you all this work in Romania and the weirdest thing is he's not Romanian. He's just a guy from Austin cares deeply about people. He cares about the greater good. He's a great storyteller because he's kind of irish-american and has a great background in storytelling. With his photojournalism. So Yeah. Sometimes, you just run across stories that are compelling you WanNa tell him. So that's what I've been doing. NAS incredible. That's incredible to see somebody still diverse and just pursuing what they want to pursue people just do one thing and are they do pursue one thing and they want to do a lot of other things and just don't have the opportunity to do it is. Really inspiring to see those opportunities and take advantage of them last question here so With the pandemic going on. How has that affected? You you? You hear about people who aren't productions that have slowed down there trying to figure the way around the pandemic to get productions backup going does this push you back more to animation because you hear people who are going into animation more because that's less risky. House affecting you. Well. It does a little bit I it. It doesn't affect me in a bad way at all I work with a really small group of people our producer Laurie Corn Gable in our editor Steven Yao. We just finished a a film for Epcot that's playing the beauty of the be sing along film. And we did a bunch of new animation for it and installed that right before the pandemic happen. So that was something that we worked on. Immediately, before the pandemic. And then the rest of the time has been finishing Howard and that just got finished you know probably two months ago or so. So. Now it's it's in looking for new material and I've been reading a lot and looking a lot of stories and biographies. And looking at some animation. I. Love Animation. There's nothing wrong with it. So looking at documentary ideas, legitimation and just sniffing around what's it? What's next? I'm kind of slow to warm up to material and So a lot of it's just trying to try things on trying on hats and trying to see what fits. Speaking of trying hats you hear about how animations maturing more. Should, at least in America's matured more definitely over the years since you've been involved. And now you hear places I think they said like over Sony, they might have three are rated projects going on. What Would you be interested in maybe producing I have a hand in more adult amateur oriented animation. Now I I don't maybe I'm a prude but I just don't care for it that much I. Think Roger Rabbit's about as adults isn't going to get in that's you still a family film. I think it's great that people are doing it though you know it, it's not necessarily my taste I enjoy making more kind of general audience movies at anybody can go see I'm all for it I. I have some friends that are making great independent movies One of them is Sergio Pablos in Spain just make Klaus slaps year you know which was nominated for. Oscars Golden, Globes, and everything. There's some great independent stuff being done in Japan and Spain and Ireland, and all over the map and now even in America where you get to really interesting work being done by people. So it's exciting for me to sit back and watch it. studios are all making a lot of animation animations thriving during the pandemic is people can work from home. documentaries are thriving. I can I can move ahead with a lot of documentaries because documentaries use a lot of thumb. Photographs and stock materials. So I can move ahead at a reasonable pace for the next to you know our lock on this last do. You keep putting movies together is they're? Apt. You know you adapt changed like this. Documentary coming up that you want to mention is that on the low? No, I don't have anything. Specific that I'm ready to dive in on. So religious in that kind of research face but it is an amazing time for documentaries. If you know many of your listeners are thinking about it I, really recommend it because you can't shoot it on your iphone and it looks and sounds great and. For the first time ever there's a market for documentaries whether it's on Netflix or on apple or Amazon, there's a place to put them be you did a documentary number just sit on your shelf or you put it in a film festival? Now. There's actually a place to sell it and you're not gonna be rich making documentaries but if you have a story to tell it's GonNa burning in your in your guts and you have to tell it Now's the time. Yes. Well, done. Thank you so much. Taking this time. That's very generous because I know you're very busy person and very important person too. So that means a lot to me that you would that you even do this. Once again people I've been talking to Don Hahn producer demasked such as the Lion, King? Aladdin beauty and the beast, and also documentary filmmaker his documentary Howard can be seen right now about Howard Ashman. His how is songs had influenced some of these classics that we've seen on Disney plus right now. And thank you so much once again, this has been an honor yet. Yeah, it's my pleasure, Cory. Thanks for the great questions and it's Really my pleasure it's talking to you you too. Thank you. You have a good one. Appreciate it. You too bye-bye. And there he goes. Love to take questions from you guys man in. Have you ask him but you know as always getting these. When we get a good person to interview, they have great answers in those answers. Fortunately take up a lot of time. That's what you want. So, thank everybody who was here listening though and watching I really appreciate that guys. Thank you for being here today. Thank. You. Thank you people saying. That was fantastic. Thank you. Thank you. Great work. Thank you for the interview. Your folks. As I said you know this is This is great. Good to do this and I appreciate your feedback but you. You don't really have a great interview unless you have a person who has done some great things and give you great answers and Don, Hahn, certainly did I'm thinking of making a different channel just for these interviews I, see these these interviews are going. Now they're going into a direction where we're more creatives, creatives, areas like animation creatives. People who are great Internet personalities on Youtube people doing great things they're talking to directors and producers these meet a lot to me. They meet a lot to to be able to talk to people that have in some way. Another probably had a great influence on my life and I wanNA. Thank you guys I. Want to thank the toasted community WanNa. Thank you all. For being here and giving me the opportunity to do these without, you wouldn't be able to do these at all. I wouldn't be here doing this so. Thank you once again, I really appreciate that and. Let me see who's angry Asian. Thank you. Thank you Austin Nick. Jaji Man. Ready, ready to die. Boylan. What is their Roman numerals around the numerous you guys get crazy with these names patrice graphics. Yeah people. Again, we'd be putting that up. You can find it soon as we're done here if you miss them up, you can find him Bill De. Here on our twitter channel. Definitely, GonNa put this up on. Youtube as say probably make on Youtube Channel, we put all these interviews up so they can be in their own place as we get these more frequently. So yeah. People. In, STUCCO is amazing. Give us more I will do that. I. Will do that. Would actually you might have heard about how we making plans to try to? Make opportunities for us to do this more but. Thank you. Thank you all this was A. This was incredible. Let me see here. That get some big names that is a big name gap produce some big things. That is a huge thing. Again s incredible dead that man took the time to do this. We had some names that Noah we've had some people like that. So. Yeah, man. But I find it interesting to talk to people like this I mean you can find interviews on a lot of other people out there today anywhere. But these right here are very, very very. Very cool. aright guys. See here as the biggest names so far no, we had A. which call it in their. keep David. Big Big man big name. All right folks. We're. Out. Of. Here. Let me go ahead. With skype rain here in Let. Get on Outta here. People if you like what we do here. Anything that we do here, please subscribe itself a free subscription, which Amazon prime. Account. Also, check it out of the shows. We got one coming up later today. do different shows a different types of you here. Anywhere, from move reviews interviews like this social issues. Video Games and more. So please I, love you all. Come join our great community and they are great community. You are great community and I will see you guys on the next one. You know how to get a hold of me K. Cooymans at g mail DOT COM that's Casey O. Z.. As dot com you email us any questions, comments, compliments, insults, and our base that's up on our social media's instagram twitter in. The book faces. The time is right. Join US in Austin Texas is not the time right now because there's a pandemic on this so When that is gone we'd love to have you come through. Time is right. We'll see you Dan but in the meantime. Watch. Emails you plan. Let us know what's up K. cooman gmail.com. Me Up, and let me know what your plans Austin whether you are moving here just simply has. Again I had a great time hanging with you today. I had a great time doing this interview. I learned a lot which is always a bonus a hope you learned a lot and we will see you on the next one. Good night good morning leaving. US. Watching this goodbye and stay. toasty. Right now, switch your family to t mobile and get four lines for twenty five dollars a line with auto pay and five G. access included on America's largest five network. So don't wait get unlimited nationwide five G. Access for the whole family for just twenty five dollars a line visit a T. mobile store for t mobile. Dot Com today. Texas, a beat customers may not slower speeds and further reduction if using over fifty gigs per month due to data prioritisation video for unlimited network twelve credit lines require capable device required for five G. coverage not available in some areas require certain features, t mobile dot com I'm enrolling in Medicare soon, and it had me a little confused. 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Disney Howard Ashman director Walt Disney producer Don Hahn Don Little Mermaid AIDS New York Roger Roger Rabbit Jeffrey Katzenberg Aladdin don Tim Burton Tina Turner Mr Don Hahn Don blue Alan Making writer
GSMC Entertainment Podcast Episode 172: What Does Charli D'Amelio Actually Do...?

GSMC Entertainment Podcast

1:03:10 hr | 3 months ago

GSMC Entertainment Podcast Episode 172: What Does Charli D'Amelio Actually Do...?

"The go but the day just be one without your Hollywood's. Golden state media concepts that are ten podcast take care of that and all inclusive look up pop culture. A Thank you for tuning into the GMC entertainment podcast brought to you by the MC podcast network I'm your host Jessica and I'll be sharing some of the top entertainment news that you just need to know right now at this very second. How is everybody doing to night? I. Mean it is quite the vibe right now I am. In the bedroom recording today as opposed to the office, my husband is having a much much needed boys. So he is in the living room having a great time. If I was in the office I would be right next to the living room and you would be able to hear every laughter as they watch their fright movie. They're watching some sort of terrible terrible horror movie. So you might be able to who knows maybe you'll be able to hear some of their laughter in the background. It's going to be a little difficult to escape but anyway, I'm sitting here in the bedroom he's doing his much-needed boys night. He needs a break from me. That is for sure I know when I am being too much and I think we're kind of at this point I have been talking nonstop about wanting another dog adopting a dog may not sound like a big deal to some people but. For us, we already have two dogs and a cat I'm gonNA tell you a little bit about them because I love them and I am obsessed with them. So just like pretty much every other pet owner out there. So Francesco, we adopted when I first moved in probably about six seven years ago. Now at this point I moved in and he travels a lot for work my husband and I didn't WanNa be alone living in this new space. So I somehow convinced him to adopt this cat and we drove about an hour and a half to go pick pick pick up the cat and when we introduced him to one of my mother's friends. His name originally was Frisco and we pick them up and she was like Oh did you say Francesco and we're just like We did absolutely his name is Francesco and now he is Francesca the cat. I love him I'm obsessed with him and Mike Never in a million years thought he would be owner but here we are and then late summer two, thousand, sixteen, we adopted a lab boxer mix puppy and we named her Nora they told her that they told us that she was allowed boxer but I think the absolutely lied to us I think she has some in her which I think they were afraid to tell us in fear that we wouldn't actually go through an adopter and we also think she has a little bit of terrier inner she's. But she's small like she had small paws as a puppy and she's a small adult dog. Much smaller than we anticipated she photographs really large. So people whose pictures of her and then actually meet her go oh, my God she's so much smaller than we thought she is she's tiny tiny little thing and I love her so so so much she is all muscle mean her behind a legs are just pure muscle. She's fast fast fast bashes. In, colors I call her my little Marilyn. Monroe. She's just so perfect, and then in December of seventeen, we adopted Wilson as a senior. So Wilson was absolutely love at first sight. He's actually sleeping. He's sleeping right next to me and when I found him online, there was like Pathfinder one of those sites I found love with him. He's a Yorkie Norfolk terrier mix and they found him on the side of a highway so I had. To have him, but the cost of shipping him up from the South wishes to a much of a financial risk for us because we didn't know how he was going to be with Noren Francesco and I didn't WanNA spend hundreds of dollars to bring them up and then have him ultimately not be a good fit that wouldn't be fair to him. That wouldn't be fair to our animals. So we. Kind of just kind of put it put it to bed by some minute location. Just in case and I didn't tell my husband and I did that and then about two weeks later there was there was a dog adoption event about forty minutes away from us and it was with the that Wilson was part of and we decided we should go. They wouldn't tell us if he was going to be part of this shipment that was coming up or not, but we're like we're going to go. And we're going to see if he's there and would you believe that when the doors when we walk through the door is Wilson was in the first cage right up front just curled up wearing his little blue sweater Cindy Bang. He must've likely must have like given like an anti exiled medication or something for the drive because it's so long. So he would like slave 'cause like little who's really lethargic. And I fell in love. One of the staffers was like, would you like to hurt him and I was like absolutely and they put him in my arms and I was like well, this is these are my arms forever like your mind and my husband just looked at me like, are you sure you want to do this and I just looked at him and said yes? Yes, I. Do. So Mikey went al and a collar and a little name tag forum his original name was starburst H. Wilson and we just dropped the starburst age and now he's just little willie and he's my children Wilson and I love him so much again he's right next to me till. You might hear him growl or maybe bark but that's okay. He just wants to be part of the show. But anyway, I am kind of getting ahead of myself. This is not a pet podcast. With books last time but whatever I love my animals then I thought maybe there's another one I saw a dachshund online that I really want Charlie or Charles he's. Durable DACHSHUND and I've always wanted a dachshund but. Now is the right time to bring another animal into this home. We live in a small convoy just don't know if it would be. It would be the best fit at the time maybe when. Anyway I should I get a dog? Let me know. Like Schumi Schumi a dam or something, and let me know if I should get this puppy dog it's a rescue so it would be we would be doing a lot of good. Anyway I'm getting ahead of myself. We have so so much to talk about today. It's like I said, today is going to be much more just conversational. We're going to be talking about e and the news network it's going to that has some big big shock news. I'm going to discuss what happened with their rigor talk about the lawn jet, the longevity of tiktok stars, and how they are going to be influencers and what their career journey could look like down the road. And then we're also going to talk about a new documentary that came on Disney plus called Howard I watched this yesterday and when I tell you, I was a puddle of tears when did like that would be an understatement. This was so good. So we're just GonNa talk about that and then in honor of Howard and Disney pause at the very end of today's episode I'm going to share with you my top five favorite Disney animated movies There's some on there that I don't think people have seen and or expect to be on there. So it's kind of surprising list and I'm GonNa tell you why why they're so good and why if you haven't seen them, you should definitely go see it and then if you have seen it and you feel like you're the only one who has seen some of these movies, you are heard I see you and I hear you and we can talk about it together. So again. Stay tuned till the end of the episode. So now let's just dive right on in to topic number one. Let's talk about tick. Tock I mean Tiktok has been everywhere recently in the news I know the president has has tried to ban it. I think this might be the second time Tiktok has been threatened to be deleted from the United States whatever, and then we also have instagram reels that just came out, which is basically the copy paste version of tiktok onto instagram. But anyway, Tiktok is taking the world by storm. Especially, this year with everyone having all of his free time on their hands, and you're basically creating short videos to music clips from TV shows, other Tiktok there's challenges and everyone seems to be on Tiktok from everyone in Gen Z., all the way to Gordon Ramsay who quite the surprise did not expect him to see him on my for you page but I am loving it And then there's creators such as Addison. Ryan try demilio and other talks users and stars are getting more than just likes these days. They're actually making some really serious money up to five million dollars. That is a lot of change for doing weak little dances in your bedroom. Addison Ray has found herself. Falling into a crowd of a lot of famous people including Courtney Kardashian and her children, Mason Penelope and rain. She's actually I think it looks like she's like staying with them for some time. They're like constantly posting with each other on on instagram and you even see some of Courtney's Courtney's children on Addison's. Did it edited talk. Of course that's the word I'm looking for. And I guess what is happening is Courtney is giving ray just some like advice. On how to deal with being in the public eye, which is fine. But I kind of think this whole relationship is kind of weird like Addison razors. She's nineteen courtney is forty. It's one thing to give advice. But then to basically be living together is kind of odd to me. Courtney makes like such a big deal of. On like keeping up with the Kardashians and how much she doesn't want to work and he doesn't want to put this time in like being famous as you so exhausting and wow Alli. This whole was me story about how difficult her life is being in the public eye But. Then now she is positioning herself next to this extremely famous talk star. So like what are you doing court? Are you are you in? Are you out with this whole with this whole fame game courtney also famously like doesn't want me San or children to have a tick tock, but then they're living with this tiktok influence. And then they're on Tiktok because they're on. Addison raise Dick's. So I I don't I don't understand like is this a? I think this could be a ploy to promote her lifestyle brand Peuche, which is just a weird knock off of goop. Something is in adding up to me like I'm wondering if Courtney's just like isn't really that successful with millennials considering that like the whole stick with millennials is that we're all drowning and student debt like how are we going to spend all this money on? These expensive items that Courtney's like you should this cream. Spite this for your diet like it just doesn't make sense or maybe she's trying to capture this Gen Z. audience who might not have that same like, oh, I need to go to college and then get all of this debt and then not be promised job I mean especially with everything that's going on. So maybe she thinks that are going to have more disposable income in the future and then giving her lifestyle brand because it just doesn't make sense to me why courtney is just chilling with nineteen year old I think it's weird I. Don't you don't. You think it's a weird I cannot be the only person who thinks that way but and who, anyway. I have to move on from this or else I'm GonNa, drive myself crazy thinking about it. But anyway, this whole new age of influence or like Instagram, which was like the holy Mecca for influencers launched their version of tiktok, which is real and like I said, it's basically a copy paste of tiktok onto instagram. So reels can show up in your feed or they have it's own leg discover page and you can scroll through it vertically. Just like you can on Tig tot as opposed to horizontally, which is where he would scroll four stories. I mean, it's like I do TV. which was Basically a knock off of Youtube, and stories is basically a knockoff of snapchat. Mean instagram really isn't the most creative platform for creatives, but you know here we are everyone uses as vague curated and people put a lot of time into that and they want a very cohesive feed and then your stories have to be compelling and then now. Only, are their stories, but then there's reels so which is like. A loser curated version of what you would put on your stories. I'm not really sure but they're definitely trying to take this tick tock audience either back on instagram or something for their own influencers another way for them to promote their audience. and to generate more income. But anyway, so that's interesting. What's going on? It just the the wars of the Social Media Wars, right? Like you have the streaming wars for television if you like this is me social media wars but then. I'm curious to see how these tick talkers are going to monetize their skills. Right. So if you go on to talk and you do say some sort of branded content with vocals someone else like sages me, I can take that audio and do my own, but I'm not going to get paid. So there's no really interest for me doing it, but you know it just kind of gets. Kinda shaky whereas whereas the line on how to advertise you know a lot of these people aren't. Just using tick tock to make money they're branching out such as Dixie demilio. Who just landed a record deal with Ellie reads hit co entertainment, which is which they also signed Jennifer, Lopez and count outcasts big boy on their on their legal. So this eighteen year old social media sensation has fifteen million followers on instagram and thirty three, million followers on tiktok. So on July first, she debuted her single be happy him which has already on Youtube gained sixty three million views, and again she just released that like those sixty three million views do not belong to a label like that's that's all her like that's very impressive. So. What's good is she's kind of getting in to something. I'm very loosely GONNA stay more stable than to talk. So she has backing now and she has a support and she's so young and her followers are so young degen's ears or so young and they seem pretty rider dialing they're going to they're going to stick with her. So she really has this opportunity to grow with her audience and I think if she leverages that correctly, she can have a very lucrative career so as opposed to jazz doing. These little dance moves in your bedroom like how how long can you do that? How can you sustain that late? Okay. Five million invest correctly and you could be good for a long long time for life. Right. But if nine if you're young and you're spending this money on this and spending it up nine, you're not making the right moves for your future. That's where it gets kind of dicey. So I'm very interested to see how these tick Tock Stars are going to move forward how they're going to leverage their career on the opportunities given to them. Some have these makeup deals like we discussed on the last podcast like something that everybody seems to be doing but I think having a record deal is really great. Really, really curious to see what happens I love tick tock none of these. None of these women that I've talked about ever came onto my for you page I guess I'm in some other side of tiktok actually don't get a lot of dancing video again, a lot more cooking and a lot more. Still deep in Hamilton Tiktok, which is kind of they're also funny lengthy making me laugh anyway. So that is that on Tiktok and everything that's going I'm really anxious to see what is happening moving forward. I'm anxious to see if reels gets off the ground how successful that is used at once it's pretty user friendly as user friendly as Tiktok I don't think so like the search for sounds is an easy where tiktok it's super super easy. So I'm sure that's going to be changed in the future since it's brand new just came out this week. But we will I will keep you updated. We'll see how the whole Tiktok fame thing goes so far so good for these creators. But coming up next the big big story we're GONNA be talking about ING news and sudden cancellation. We're also GONNA talk about Howard on Disney plus again, one of the best documentaries I have seen any long longtime, really emotional, really good and then at the very end in honor, of Howard, on Disney I'm GonNa talk about the top my favorite top-five Disney animated movies. This does not include Disney Pixar this just Disney animation there are some on there I don't think everyone has seen, and if you have seen it, then just know you are seeing Icu and I hear you I'm really excited to go through the list you guys stay tuned. We will be right back. Find out what movies to go see and check out the GMC movie podcast. It's your ticket to the latest movies whether it's a new blockbuster event, romantic comedy or action flick. This show has got it all covered they talk somewhat to go see now don't bother what's hot on Netflix and everything in between that GMC PODCAST DOT COM back slash movie dash podcast when it's all about the movies it has to be this new show. Don't forget to like them on facebook and follow them on twitter visit GS MC podcast dot com for more INFO. And welcome back my friends I am sitting here with Chilston Wilson. I'm my side I. Wish you can see you show hugh curled up on got. It looks like a little teddy bear with little black beady eyes no black nose anyway I hope you enjoyed that little segment about Tiktok. I'm curious to see what you think v Longevity of these tiktok stars are going to be so send me a DM. Let's discuss. Let's talk about it. I am not on. I am still. Running all of this off of instagram be sure to like follow. And we can chat. We can have a conversation that stuff would be kind of fun. Anyway let's move onto the next big story. This is a huge story from the week after twenty nine years of being on the air easy news has been canceled. This includes pop of the morning and in the room daily pop and nightly pop will still air. This show has been cancelled due to. Fallout caused by the coronavirus pandemic. News was hosted by Liliane of those quiz and Scott Tweet tweety with the pair also serving as host for ease papa the morning alongside Victor Cruz in the room was hosted by Jason Kennedy. The restructuring happening at NBC universal is in line with their announced plans at the end of June to quote focus on streaming and away from traditional television. That's really really interesting and I'm going to give some more of my opinion on that later in this segment. All three shows are currently. All three shows are currently based in New York City News officially relocated from Los Angeles last year, but the networks future in-studio productions will reportedly return to the West Coast. Personally I think moving the show to New York was one of the networks biggest mistakes. I don't understand how a show that is built around the entertainment industry and celebrities was taken out of Los Angeles and placed in New York that makes. Zero sense to me absolutely zero. It's like having a show dedicated to Broadway musical based in Los Angeles that would never happen because it would make absolutely zero sense. So I understand the hustle and bustle of New York City and. The ICONIC NBC studios building and lowering, and if it's that whole Oh, if I can make it here, I can make it anywhere attitude but like you're already meeting it in Los Angeles like there's no need to go to New York. Another thing that I believe worked against them with this is news used to air when it was out in Los. Angeles. It would air at seven PM and then when it moved to new. York. The time slot became seven am like what how How does that make any sense what network executive decided to do at the I? Would I'm curious I really want to know and I would love to sit down and have a little condo and kind of pick their brain because that is ludicrous. I mean I understand that the show is tailored to entertainment and that generally brings in a much younger audience. So I also don't know with that in mind why you would do seventy seven PM is perfect because like if you're done school or classes or work or whatever you come home and you sit and you can watch with your mom, your dad your friends and is kind of unwind after a long day and listen to a little mindless celebrity news have a glass of wine enjoy. and. Then you have a full day to curate news for. For the airing. Heaven. I don't know so. The timeslot thing just did not make any sense to me, and then also you basically have three shows about the exact same thing. It. Just it's all the same news all about the same celebrities in one day, take the daily pop and the nightly pop and just merge them together Legis day we're going to call it the pop bring the two together. There's no need to have two different shows and by merging into wine and it's more cost effective and it just makes more sense like how many times is e. news talk about Ellen like we can only talk about it. So many times I get it I get it I get it and you're giving me hours and hours and hours of the same news just on repeat like on this crazy cycle. Just not which is not needed. So that was an issue in my opinion also again, in my opinion, none of these shows need to be like. Live there's no need with how quickly the Internet instagram twitter. Talk. GIVES US entertainment news. It's all mostly in real time anyway, and alive production is not necessary. I can't imagine the audience watching the show doesn't already know. A majority if not all of the news that they're presenting in any of their segments like they already know. So the fun of entertainment news isn't so much about the news itself it's about. The anchors. A or the host anchors it's about the host and like bear hot take on everything that's going on. It's about how you tell the story. It's not about the news itself like give me a host that has an opinion on what's happening with Ellen and not something super diplomatic like you're giving me every hour on the hour you know. So, and then on top of that, I have to look at my notes because I just have so many thoughts about this. So like you can do a nightly recap on, say the pop and you can just recap what's been happening in the news even if it's news from the day before it doesn't have to be breaking like no one in your audience is going to be watching and relate. Well three minutes before the pop started. Konya went on twitter rampage and why aren't you talking about it? Like no, they're watching everything. Go Down live on other things like our attention is going while we're watching. Pop or anything I guarantee you were all growing on Instagram as well at the same time. So you're not telling US anything new just give us. Give your opinion on things. That's much more much more interesting. Again just reviewing my notes to make sure that I didn't miss anything. To that to that point I did right how again we know everything already. So it's kind of like keeping up with a guard Asha, which is arguably the best show on e arguably. So we all know what kind of happens with this famous family. We're all aware of it because of just news league. Kris. Jenner wants to feed to the Paparazzi but the whole point of watching the show even though we know what happens is seeing how the sisters respond, how the family responds and That's all I'm asking from night entertainment news that I am watching. Be Fun. Be Bold. Have Opinions. Another thing that was downfall for e again in my opinion my humble opinion. And this story is actually a few years old. So if you don't know it, I'm GonNa, tell you but there is a huge pay dispute with Catt. Sadler. So she laughed any news network because she felt as though she was not getting paid fairly to her male counterpart she found out that he was making almost double her salary was and she wanted to remain part of e like it was her lifelong dream to work like she's always wanted to work for the network. And she had this incredible job and she turned it down because out of her morals who's a I'm not gonNA steer and not be compensated for what I'm worth. They were basically doing the exact same job and he came back and said, would no you're not and she's like, yes, I am and she penned this whole article and put it on our blog and not just left a stain on e. that I do not think they were able to really recover from. I. Think. I mean, again I'm pretty sure that a majority of your audience is female that are sitting down and watching, and once you have that type of bad publicity that's not a that isn't. Any publicity is good publicity that is just terrible. She tried to negotiate with them. They said no, and she wrote, how can we make it better for the next generation of girls if we don't stand for what's fair and just day I mean good for you girlfriend. I completely respect her for walking away from that walking away from such a great opportunity it just wasn't worth it their. Her and her counterpart that she doesn't mention. So out of respect to I'm not going to mention but you can again. FIND OUT FOR YOURSELF They started at the same time and they grew at the same time. I think. There was one show difference of what they were doing but the other than that everything was pretty identical. Their workload was identical. She's a single mom to kids. She sacrificed so much and then to find out that you're not getting paid fairly and then when you ask for the raise, they're just like, nope, and then they tell you that you don't do as much as your male counterpart. Oh I, don't think. So E- Wasn't a smart move I think from then I would love to look at the numbers because I'm curious to see if from that is when they really saw like this down click. Of Of audience viewership in like why things weren't working I mean they tried to do so much with all of these shows and they don't give it enough time to work itself L.. But I. Don't think they ever would I don't think they would work out. That They just weren't keeping up at the times and they really just shot themselves in the foot with the whole catt Sadler sex today Catt Sadler, situation. But I wanted to get back to the part where I where I discussed. How will how? NBC's they're kind of moving away from regular television and I think that's really interesting and we're seeing that a lot with the whole streaming wars how networks can kind of create alicarte experience say look at peacock or Hbo Max I mean we can choose as viewers what we want to watch, and then there are. Through. Social media such as facebook or instagram things become viral like have you seen stranger things and everyone's watching stranger things so you wanNA watch stranger things. So you're going to download Netflix watch stranger things. So if all of these networks create an APP that you pay for. So it might be like Oh four, ninety, nine, a month may not seem like much. But in all of a sudden you're paying for a bunch but you kind of carrying what you want say. Cheese like we're GONNA, this amazing amazing show that you pay for as long as you have one and you get those viewers are completely changed the game. So I'm curious to see if moving forward say the children that are being born today right or under five if by the time they're adults are, is there going to be regular regularly scheduled programing on television or is it going to go back to how it was in the olden days back? A little bit before when I was a kid but it was like when it was just three six and ten and I'm wondering if it's going to go kind of back to that, does that basic cable? The News and that's it. Everything else is going to just be like I said, alicarte APP streaming services. So I'm really curious to see how all of this is going to play out and a lot of this podcast is a, here's some news and let's speculate what's going to happen in the future. So that is everything on e. that I think you need to know stuff that you can think about. Let me know what you think. What do you think is the future for E. You know what's going to happen without e. news is it still going to be as Celebrity focused, are they going to do more shows like keeping up with the Kardashians? So. There's a lot. A lot to think about there. But coming up I am going to be talking about Howard, which is a new documentary on Disney plus and yes, I think it deserves a full segment because it was that that good and that beautiful and then after that in honor of Howard I'm going to go through my top five favourite animated Disney movies. Again, this is not including Pixar, that is a whole nother a whole another thing that we could talk about. Another list. So stay tuned and we will be right back. Tired of searching the vast jungle of podcasts now, listen close and here this out. There's a podcast network that covers just about everything that you've been searching. The Golden. State media concept's podcast. is here nothing less than podcast bliss with endless hours of podcast covers. From News. Sports Music. Entertainment Fantasy football, and so much more. So stop lurking around and go straight out to the golden state media concepts podcast network guaranteed to fill that podcast. Whatever it may be visit us at www dot, Jesus MC PODCAST DOT COM. Follow us on facebook twitter and download on itunes soundcloud and Google play. Welcome back my friends. I am still sitting here up in my bedroom with Little Wilson by my side the boys are still bear watching their fright and we're just kind of binding right now. It's just very laid back episode today we're kind of relaxing hope you're relaxing wherever you are maybe you're driving don't relax too much. Maybe you're also chilling in bed kind of unwinding after a long day I just we just talked about Tiktok Andy News and how the world is changing with influencers television. And I WANNA talk. Kind of staying on that theme of changing the world, I really want to take a moment and talk about the new documentary on Disney plus called Howard I. Mean Disney plus came on the scene as a streaming service and it was just quite the hey I mean they have been knocking out of the park with the man delorean that they have I mean also with streaming Hamilton really saved us in during this quarantine and then now with this documentary cod Howard. Why an? Absolutely. Incredible, story of Howard Ashman and we all kind of know Alan Menken from watching Disney movies. Howard. Ashman. What a phenomenal story and he really did change the world. He changed the world for Disney I mean I can't even imagine what Disney would be today if it weren't for him. So this for any Disney. Fan Listening if you haven't watched it I urge you to you if you are just an average Disney fan. I. Urge you to watch if. You don't really understand the Disney hype as an adult. Then I urge you to watch. It's so well done. It is so compelling I was sobbing by and and I just kind of want to break down I don't want to give too much away again, this is much more conversational and just kind of starting dialogue and talking about the impact that Howard had on the Disney. Universe. So. If you're a fan of Disney mean the opening three minutes is just so spectacular. You have this full orchestra, sound studio. and. In you're just watching them all kind of practice link play with their strings and it just opens up and then all of a sudden you see Pedro Heron she starts and she's being instructed on how to say quiet in a quiet village. You know from beating the bees and Howard is explaining to her exactly how he wants her to say the word quiet how sing it and it? That's how it opens up and we learn. And does the whole flashback and we learn about his childhood and how much he loves storytelling and what he would do his toys and kind of create them, crate, take them and make them his own. So he would have like these little glow cowboy and Indian figurines and he would paint them and or he would add like drapes on them made out of like seeing Napkins and he would turn them into these other characters other than what he was given and he would create whole stories and he would bring his sister in and be like look. There's here's this scene of this happening, and here's another scene of that happening anche he. He would just create this world and bring people in his really wanted to share that and he ended up. Trying to have this relationship with his dad that was like. Tip like more quote Manley League go fishing and play sports never never really wanted to do that, and then at age six, he saw his first play and you know the rest is kind of history. You kind of know where it's going he gets. Really, involved in theater and he loves any loves musical theater and he loves telling the story like through the lyrics of music and even though he never played any sort of instrument, he knew exactly what he wanted everything to sound like an his head and one thing that I learned from this documentary that I didn't know was Howard wrote little wrote the musical lyrics for little shop of horrors and the whole story of that is so fascinating because I didn't know that little shop of horrors was just this movie that was made rumored to be in two days using parts like. The stages from another production and it was this spoof on horror movies and he really wanted to turn into a musical and one of the things that was fascinating about it and why he thinks it was so successful is because you take. He took something that. Seemed silly right and he's like I'm going to take this and put her on the stage and he. Trying to think of the best way. To word this. He tells the story as he saw the story if that makes sense and so that's why it's like kind of campy and it's a little silly. But then that's why the music works because it's not serious because if you do something say like West side story in these start singing. The willing suspension of disbelief you really have to buy into the fact that they were stinging because this was more cartoony, right? You can kind of get away with the musical numbers and it was such a success on the stage, and then they made it a film and it still work translated really well into film. But the one thing that that Howard didn't wind is he didn't want little shop of horrors to go from this small intimate theatre into this large theater. He thought that it wouldn't work that way you need it to peace Monte needed to be intimate and the goes through like. The lyrics and how they were it. Absolutely. Fascinating. So then he talks then it kind of goes into how he became partnered with Disney and Howard is the one that brought out Minkin in. And again, a lot of US know Alan Menken? We're especially if you're Disney fan, you recognize the name, you've seen the name. Because he's done a lot more Disney films than what's Presented with Howard and that whole. That whole story. So he got hired to do the Little Mermaid. He's the one who decided that or made the suggestion that Sebastian's should be Jamaican. He helped design Ursula like what he envisioned her to be from all the sketches like they made a bunch of sketches. Then he walks in I think this and then you have her song and like the process of Aerial Meeting Ursula when Ariel Meets Ursula you have no idea. Is, and then by the end aerials giving her voice to this woman and you talk about the journey of the song and the lyrics and what they do to add character. He says that the last place to do Broadway musicals is in animation and like I said before the reason little shop and the musical worked out was because of how cartoonish it was. So Howard felt that he could really really do so much with animation and with Disney and Disney trusted him, and he had a lot of freedom and he was very demanding with what he wanted but is because he knew what he wanted. And what's heartbreaking about? About the story is he? He tests positive for HIV and he's young. He's so so young and he's working on the Little Mermaid he's working on a Latin. He's working on beauty and the beast, and the only one I believe that he saw completely threw is the little mermaid and when he went to Walt Disneyworld and Disneyland and saw the parade with the Little Mermaid, he was so emotional from that and it's because he realized that the Little Mermaid. Outlive him he felt like he really did something really great with that and he believed it, and so he put that same belief into a lot into beauty and the beast. Peter Schneider the former president of Disney animation has amazing quote saying that great artists give you a way of looking at the world that you've never seen before and the way they do that is by showing you their world and he says that that is how Howard a about his business and that's how he wrote and he was so passionate about it and he really wanted you to understand and because he fell empathy for these characters, he wanted the. Audience to feel empathy for them, and he really understood the art of storytelling where if you take a word or if you take a phrase out of a song, then the whole thing doesn't make sense I mean he petitioned to have the song part of Your World From the Little Mermaid to stay into the movie because he knew the even though it was a slower song and there was a chance for kids to be uninterested in this start losing. Losing focus of the film he knew that in the long run that that was such an important part of areas journey, and then at the end, it became such a pivotal part and it's one of the most remembered scenes of the film. Again He tests positive for HIV and His career was. Cut Short. His life was cut short and that is. So devastating, and I say that because we all look at least as millennials and I'm not sure about other generations. But definitely us, we have this affinity for Disney. We feel this connection to it and the movies, and there was this Disney renaissance that happened with the Little Mermaid beating the beast a lot in and it was because of the partnership between. Between Howard Ashman and Alan Menken and their partnership and how well they worked together and I wonder what would the world of? Disney be like? If he had kept going he was what? Thirty, nine, forty years old when he passed away I mean that is so so young and he had this successful early career right now. There's this trend going around and it's a great trend and I'm not knocking on the trend at all but there is the trend going around that it's we should normalize realising your dreams and chasing your dreams in your thirties like you don't have to know what exactly what you want to do it sixteen. But what if Howard didn't know would Disney have gotten this resurgence that it had this renaissance and Curry eight these iconic films and songs that we all know and love. Today. I mean, we're very lucky that he. That he realized what he wanted to do and he just did it. One of the most astonishing things I got out of the documentary is that the song prints I'll Lee was written while Howard was in a hospital bed I mean that type of dedication. Is. Truly truly remarkable. This is just this is just a beautiful showcase of the stars aligning and bringing certain people together to create amazing things. Again, the Disney Canon would not be what it is today if it wasn't for Howard and everything that he did. So if you want to be inspired and if you want. It's to feel good and then Kinda like knocked down. If you want that field goodness style Jeb I, highly highly highly highly highly recommend this documentary. It's really beautiful I. IT brings you back to your childhood I, mean seeing Angela Lansbury in a studio singing be our guest was just so thrilling to see like Mrs Potts Sinning. So beautiful, it's inspiring. GIC It really makes you think about how the world works you know and How things work out in in your life and I feel like Howard really had so much to say and he knew he didn't have a lot of time to say, and maybe that's the driving force of why in these three Disney movies, they're just such good power powerful songs. I mean do we get that type of power and any other Disney movie I think from there we that Elton John with the Lion King but nothing really comes close to those three. And again. Truly. Remarkable. Absolutely spectacular. Please watch. Let me know what you think. Go On instagram twitter send me a damn. Let me know how you feel about the documentary I guarantee. You're going to love it. I don't know I really don't know how you don't. Again, you can be a skeptic of the Disney. The Disney phenomenon or you could be a die hard. It's just really wonderful really good stuff and because of that I am going to go on and discuss my five top favor my top five. Favorite Disney. Animated Movies and Yes yes. A lot of news on there. But where where does a lot in Li- you'll have to stay tuned to find out. Golden State Media Concept's bring you book review podcast I haven for bookworm of all ages and the whitest genres from mystery to memoirs romance to Comedy Fantasy. SCIFI. If you love to read this is the podcast for it's the Golden State media concepts book review. PODCAST. And welcome back my friends. You stayed with me. Hello. Let's talk about my top five favorite Disney, animated movies. Again, this does not include any pixar that is a-list. Onto its own, that is its own separate thing we can talk about all day long. Again this the these are mine top five, favorite animated Disney movies. So we're going to start with number five, and again we'll talk about Howard is the little. Mermaid, and honestly I think the main reason it is on the list if I'm being completely honest with you guys, which is what I always want to do. Prince Eric is my favorite Disney, prince hands down. There is no contest you're wrong with any of your other opinions. It's Prince Eric, is a eleven. So, there's. So that aside, the music by Howard. Porn. Fortunate souls is just a masterpiece I. Don't think any Disney villain. Well, let me scar. But I think that is one of the Best Disney villain songs out they're scarred. Does does have a good one but more on that later a, it's a great story. A lot of people find it can find it problematic which. I guess I, get where you're coming from, but I don't agree so. It's a fun tale. I really liked the message of a girl who She had. A girl who wants more than what she has and she understands what she does have as good. But what she thinks is Better and she does what she needs to do to get there does she make a mistake and sell her voice of course we've all made mistakes. I'm not gonNA judge her for that. Did. She Fall in love with a boy in a second shore, but so have I and probably so heavy you. So no big deal it happened to work out with her. So it somewhere we've all been and so I'm not gonNA falter. For. It. She learns how to walk. She learned a new skill that's fantastic I. think Sebastian is a great character I think the lyrics in. Did at edited a under the sea are just funny and clever again gay Howard Ashman. So that is why the Little Mermaid is on the list again mostly because of Prince Eric. So moving on number four, this line I don't think a lot of people are gonNA see coming but I think there is a small group of you out there that understands what I am talking about. Number four is the great mouse detective. That's right. There's a Disney movie called the great mouse detective, and if you have not seen it, I strongly urge you to watch it. If you like Sherlock Holmes, you will like the great mouse detective. The great mouse detective is Sherlock Holmes. It is so good Rattigan is fantastic. The song acted in is also vintage. So if I was basil of Baker Street and. It's Sherlock Holmes it's excellent. There's the Queen Mouse. They're all little mouse living in London Lake. He's in two to one be Baker Street. It's just really clever. It's very dark I don't. I don't understand why liked it so much as a child, it is a little slow moving. There's two songs I think in the whole movie. But it just it's really good. It's funny. I think the character of Rattigan is just funny looking character at least when I was a child. I really it again in college and I was like this is still frickin fantastic. So I really I really like it it's different to be animation is really different. It's very old school you. weirdly pen drawings. It's very good. I. Suggest it. Please go watch it report back. You'll like it, and for those of you who already know about it watching in love it was. So, number three, this is a little controversial. Some people don't like that it's number three. I think a lot of people would say it should be number one it is the lion king. Elton John did a great job with this film. The songs are catchy. The Broadway production is just absolutely breathtaking the Mo-, the movie you laugh you cry I. Mean I still cry when Faucet is still how many of this movie a lot and I'm a grown adult right now and I still cry I cried in the movie theater when I saw it I cried at home when I brought it home on Vhs when I saw it again, I cried when I went to my friend Victoria's house and we watched a it's just a brutal moment and listen all Disney movies have their brutal moments with something about Simba trying to wake up his dad just crushes your soul. But anyway enough add stuff to Modem poobah fantastic comedic duo when he does little like how to get the attention from the hyenas. Fantastic. The Hyenas. Scar what a great Mellon. I love how it's basically a Shakespearean play. I think that everything about the movie is just absolutely stellar. It's beautiful. The songs are fantastic. It's great. I. Don't like I will say I. Don't like how when the DVD came out they added that song. Zaza? With the more. What is it the morning report? That I don't really take me out of it really does but everything else is fantastic. So that is why it makes list, but it is not number one because there are two others that I think are a little better. So number two. Again not a lot of people agree with me but I have my reasons. So hear me out. Number two. Is. The hunchback coach Tom. I. Love, this movie. We had there's something that's not on the list. Of It. Okay. So it's going to take number one. It's got. Oh. Sorry. Okay. So Back, to number two. So number two, the hunchback down. I never related to like a Disney princess growing up I didn't look like any of them. I didn't I didn't relate to them I never had like the bell costumer this Cinderella Costumer, this snow white costume, but costume I did have. Had ESMERELDA Maradas. I saw myself in her and. I didn't see myself in a lot of other Disney characters. So I like that I love how she stood up for Justice and I love how much you loved Quasimodo and respected him and their friendship and I'm GonNa give you another reason why it's on my list and it's such a silly reason. And it's such A. Geeky reason is because the voice of Quasimodo is Tom Halls and Tom Holes plays Mozart in my favorite movie of all time amid days, and there are moments in hunchback of Notre Dame where I could totally hear like full Tom Halls with his giggle and for that I, love it i. just think it's a very I think the message of hunchback is really positive. Again, it's a very dark Disney movie. Heads on a lot of really sensitive and. Awful subjects but the overall message is really positive and really good and again as Morada just standing up for justice I think we all should relate to her right now so That is why it is number three. Number one I'm going to tell you what was number one I'm going to tell you what is now number one because I am so foolish number one was a lot in and I love Aladdin. I have many great memories with a lot in. It is one of the best but I'm GONNA have to because I failed you I'm going to have to replace it at the last minute I'm going to tell you what's GonNa. Win. And it's a goofy movie. That's right. It is a cult classic and cult favorite not everyone has seen it. My husband has yet to see I. Don't know why haven't forced him to watch. Power Line is a powerhouse what an excellent Disney. Movie I don't believe it was in theaters I think it went straight to. I think it went straight to DVD. which is what we had and my brother and I watched it and we laughed so hard like bigfoot hysterical. Leicester's Possum Park one of the greatest moments in Disney movies. It's so good. It's about goofy very underrated character and the Disneyworld. It's funny. It's about father son bonding time I do like how it's all. It's mailed a male lead like male dominant. It's not so much about a love story of a Disney, princess needs to find a prince. Or someone becoming king it is just a road trip with father and son does Max lied to a girl? Yes. Does it all work out in his favor? Of course? It does it's a Disney movie. But I mean like. Power Line I have a power line shirt. I can do the perfect cast. It is one of the best. It is incredibly funny. The jokes are definitely for children and adults. It's great I suggest you sit down and give it to watch and be prepared to laugh is that the one not so much not as funny I won the second one is called an extremely goofy movie so they were very creative with titling real quick. So when we were watching his kids Ben and I was like Ma Ma mom, can you buy US We went we WANNA goofy movie and she's like well, what movie a goofy movie what movie? It's a goofy movie. She's said. It was very Abbott and Costello like who's on first but finally she understood and she got us a goofy movie and Here. We are. It's great. Actually I'm probably going to watch that now me and Wilson what's up do you want to watch a goofy movie? Now. You just GonNa just GonNa Sleep there. Okay. That's fine. Totally Fair. So anyway that concludes my top five list. I guess since stop six, but you know number one could be shared between the two anyway guys so much for sticking with me on this relaxed laid back night. I. Hope You enjoyed listening I. Hope You have a lot to think about it again. Tonight was more just about talking about stuff and thinking about the future and where things are going to go where things came from. So have a wonderful wonderful night or day or whatever it is you're doing and I will see you soon I guess talk to you soon, you guys have a wonderful night. Thank. You for tuning into the GMC entertainment podcast brought to you by the MC podcast network. I am your host Jessica. If you can please remember to like comment subscribe, please go and give us a wonderful and beautiful five star review. We greatly appreciate it and like us on facebook instagram and twitter we hope to talk to you soon I will respond to any DMZ. Have a wonderful wonderful day bye-bye. You've been listening to the golden state media concepts, entertainment podcast part of the Golden state media concepts, podcast network. You can find this show an others like it at www dot Jesus MC podcasts, dot com download our podcast on itunes stitcher soundcloud, and Google play just type in Jesus Mc to find all the shows from the golden state media concepts, podcast network from movies to music thrown sports entertainment, and even Weird News. You can also follow us on twitter and on facebook. Thank you and we hope you have enjoyed today's program.

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45. Guest Lee Wilkof: From Little Shop Of Horrors, Max Headroom, to Hart To Hart, Marvelous Mrs. Maisel and beyond!

Full Cast And Crew

1:56:51 hr | 1 year ago

45. Guest Lee Wilkof: From Little Shop Of Horrors, Max Headroom, to Hart To Hart, Marvelous Mrs. Maisel and beyond!

"Webster's dictionary defines working as engaged in work especially for wages or salary and actor actor as one that acts tonight's guests certainly fits that definition who among us could forget his transcendent embodiment of the very essence of civic life as towns person in holy moses for which he was probably given wages or the existential dread he personified urban dehumanisation humanized in the role of screaming man on the subway in the marshall chronicles a series which i assume so redefined television that i never heard of it before today we we'll cover all of this and more because there is much more as director amanda charlton a previous guest on this program to discuss nineteen ninety-one silence of the lambs said in reference reference to our guest. This is what an acting career looks like and our guest is actor director. Lee will cough. Lee welcome <hes> happy to be here. That was chris surprised that that's who got introduced pacino well. They're going to be really surprised he was not in holy. Most remembered always houses. Have you ever heard of it before. I have heard of holy moses. Yes i did not remember member towns person i was actually there was a giant. There was like this huge shadow of a giant. They didn't have the giant giant who's got money. Relieved moved himself on townspeople. Wow and that was the scene okay. Well chris were born to play and then i met me loesch foreman for some movie movie i think it was cuckoo's nest and he said what have you done and i said i just got paid by a giant and i didn't get the how could have been in cuckoo's who is asked that would have been special chris. Did a humorous james lipton intro of you. I'm going to take a couple of minutes here just to do a more serious interview because lee as regular listeners of the pod will know the highest compliment. We can pay an actor whose i._m._d._b. Page we mine for the incredible we'll nuggets and depth and decades of service. You represent this probably better than anyone certainly anyone we've ever had on the pod yeah so we haven't had any hop op. I'm probably the oldest person than you've had on the pod problems not just here league obviously looking at around around line. That's why does back ax so many decades. You are the definition of the working actor lee wilco for those listening. Let's start in the theater. He originated the role of seymour in the original legendary three nine hundred eighty two off broadway production of little shop of horrors and also originated the role of samuel bic in stephen. Sondheim's musical nerd favourite assassins his performance. It's in the one thousand nine hundred nine revival of kiss me. Kate garnered him a tony nomination for featured actor in a musical other broadway credits include sweet charity movie version directed by bob fosse. I believe and my index was directed by botha's he wasn't supposed to he was the supervisor but he came after a week of seeing it and the guy that was directing directing the next day was bringing bob coffee in a while nevertheless and any broad gwen verdon on so to work with both of them how we just. I did all that jazz on the pot a few weeks ago. Lee was also in the front page. She loves me. Michael frayn's democracy breakfast at tiffany's the odd couple and most recently waitress yes. There's about fifteen other ones that i'm leaving their citing highlight elect his tv career spans from late seventy s nationally important television efforts like disco beaver from outer space and the tv version of animal house to nineteen eighty s hour long episode ix my favorites like heart-to-heart hunter scarecrow and mrs king perry mason matlock and enrolls in fascinating lee noteworthy series max headroom cop rock and beverly hills bunce a short-lived hillstreet blues spinoff starring a pre andy sipowicz dennis france the also turned in reliably funny and subtle performances alongside amidst comedy heavyweights like jonathan winters madeline kahn and bob newhart his recent tv credits include include era defining shows like high maintenance and the marvelous mrs mazel his film credits people include sidney lumet's final film before the devil knows you're dead howard stern's private parts school of rock this boy's life and the last seduction director john dolls first feature film kill me again and and lee's own directorial debut at true film yes directorial debut no pay nudity which we're going to discuss today and which i described on our pods instagram as both with a love letter to and cautionary tale about the acting life which stars an excellent cast of pro actors including gabriel byrne francis conroy nathan eighth and lane boyd gaines and germy shameless in an excellent turn as a veterinarian. I'm leaving out dozens of credits here. This is just to give you a taste of what lee has been doing in his career freer since nineteen seventy s and apparently managed to be a husband a father and a beloved friend at the same time which in this business is almost or even more impressive than the credits themselves more than that he seems to be one of those guys who everyone loves and respects any seems to have managed to keep his sanity and his sense of humor along the way lee welcome welcome to full cast and crew. Thank you clearly didn't speak to everybody but no we did. We just cut those those out. Do you have some like cantankerous moments where you've had sharp elbows elbows in it would be hard to be in showbiz for fifty years and not have those moments but you do seem to be one of those guys. Everyone is like oh. I love lee will believe it or not. I was probably at my crankiest doing when they asked. What's the favorite thing you've ever done at least on stage. They assume little shop right little shop was often fraught with drama just her summaries unreason and that's probably where my elbows were if they were sharp at all i was i was cranky and do you think that's because it was something new something that maybe hadn't been done before. Just just everyone was young probably because i didn't get enough attention to natural not nature was it was a was a difficult birth right right and i was at sea. It was really my first musical and luckily the assistant director came to my assistance. It was interestingly. It was a howard ashman his assistant. Her name's connie grappo and i called her. I knew i was in trouble. I was on the cusp. They didn't know what to do with me. It was like about a week before we started our first preview and i called her and little. Did i know that howard ashman said to her. I want you to work with him that same day he said. I want you to work work with les privately. I called her and <hes>. We've been married for thirty five years so she took that direction. She was like all right our today. It's a real calling so it wasn't fun. It was fun doing right but it was not fun rehearsing and it was. I almost got into yeah i did. I did a gun onto it. I'm got into a fistfight with the guy that played mr bush nick. He never liked me. May he rest in peace. I we had a gentleman named michael vale. He was the original mr bush nick and he was the dunkin donuts guy from well now time to make the donuts that's right that lie veil that guy he was great right and he was an actor and a real donor guy he was he had some other campaign he he did not need to do the donut guy then or after after ben during and he didn't wanna do only moved to the orpheum so in a new gentleman came on may he rest in peace. His name was high ends. El and hymie came in he was the only one that was new and he was assigned by a howard assigned connie grappo who is that i was living with author 'cause it was several months after we'd close and <hes> to to work with him to put him into the show and the first thing he said there were autumn work with women and that got help his case. I'm gonna change. It never laughed at his jokes and i do this warm up. I still do it and people tell me to shut up. Sometimes he well that yet and i have been doing it for years. I had i had my first first voice teacher in new york. He had me do that for an hour. That's all i do i. I don't know what the hell to do that. Anyhow i hi me. He told me to shut up one time quit doing that and i said it's not half hour yet and he said you little prick and we aren't. We came this close. Oh soi fingers are very close to each other but generally i'm interesting. I'm <hes> cowardly and i don't throw my weight around and grumble probably at home but i'm not a troublemaker really keep my mouth shut so your recipe for success is to marry the assistant directors at the advice you would give a young actor when possible ways whenever i did a show and then it ended with connie i would i would i would get involved with with like the assistant director of the choreographer because i wanted to know the inside dirt interesting with connie. It wasn't that it was connie. I needed help but it's worthwhile u._s. Firing exercises christie's where you're really needing help help and inside dirt. It's the same thing i've been dating people in a position of power on the shows you've been on i mean you don't know that i haven't i mean sure it didn't work out l. Quite as well and kinds of directors. Well not anymore but she wasn't theater. Director was a theater director. When howard stopped directing little shop he directed the the off broadway and los angeles and london and the national tour and then he handed over to connie and she did the national premieres in australia and south africa and canada and maintained like the national tour and then she went to yale drama school par augustan augustina well-known and she directed for several years regionally an off broadway and ran a theatre company and then about seven or eight years ago she started painting and that's what she does has no more show business for her. She's very happy that spent and i can understand it when she did. There was an out of town. I i don't know if you remember about twelve years ago. Little shop premiered on broadway with hunter foster. Alright and connie directed that out of town in in florida which i played mr bush nick in that one and that got very messy. I think that was the sort of enough well she didn't. It took years to stop but that was like in my mind big time. Show business really never had any interest. She liked working off broadway. <music> out of town right and little shop is coming back. I show coming back. You're you're promoting your posting. You're still in the little shop family. Little shop is coming back off broadway. Okay i played the role in florida and i played mr bush nick. We did it at the kennedy center last year which was really fun and they inquired about my interest unavailability and i <hes> yeah you said no well. I was kind of interested but we're going to indian nepal and it would've cut into that i would have had i said i maybe i'll do it but i need these two weeks off to go to indian paul. 'cause that's pretty yeah. That's that's untouchable as incomes like if i got like like like this for example and i said i'm not really available available. They've moved on okay now. I have to say that's probably part of the secret of success and longevity. I don't know if you had that. Skill your whole life saying no saying no. They usually don't say no but this this india thing. I've been wanting to go to india i this is really just to its sacred. Just the way that you were telling that story i could tell that the answer was that as an actor as well until you get a certain amount of success success which you know i feel you have looking at this very impressive career but as as i said before like every job feels like it could be your last to carve out anything that feels like a real life feels almost like you're putting that at risk blaming it feels that way. I'm gonna be like very candid here. I don't work that much anymore. Certainly not as much as i want to and when something comes along even even though i've done it before yeah it's tempting because i still love to work. If i'd never done little shop before i may have thought of a different but i played the role twice and <hes> it's. I like to do things now because they have some meat on the bone and this is a nice role but not given up this trip. You had the great good for you. The reason we wanted to have you on was to talk about your movie. No pay nudity which diving into your career and your life it seems seems plucked from the headlines of your own experience. How much of the movie is drawn from your experience and how much is drawn from the screenwriters experience. Okay and give us give us. A press. Crisis is that the word chris sure press it up. Is it presses like a quick synopsis a summary or abstract text or speech inch there you go up. I believe i was certainly <hes>. I have lulls all the time i had no. I came up with. It's a story with the idea of being in it. Let me backup. I used to walk into the equity lounge where a lot of the movie takes place the equity lounge. It doesn't really exist the way it does. In the film. The equity lounges now called the audition center but for years up until about six years ago five years ago. It was this place ace. Were actors hung out. I used to go there because <hes> leader. I been i live in brooklyn and i'd go there for literally to take a leak and either way station truckstop for actor that's right. I didn't need to go there to audition because i have an agent but but they had open calls they're they're often so i went there and then there was a period of maybe twelve fifteen years where i hadn't been there and i went back and the same people not same type of of people the exact same people were sitting in the line literally for really yes literally a woman with a dog and a guy with the mustache i mean they were the same people because i i'd i i'd like there'd be people that i took in on and i'd go. They're here all the time. They live here so i said this is a cool idea. This might be a movie. It's a little inside he what the hell so i wrote this treatment and i brought it to ethan sandler who admit at williamstown many years ago him and his wife <hes> <hes> she wasn't his wife then kathryn hahn and i said ethan. Let's write this together will direct it co directed and i'm going to be in. I wanna play the lead lead so we wrote it together and then i don't know how much time passed maybe two years we had lunch one day to talk about the idea of directing it if we could ever get it made and i went to myself isn't gonna work out two of us directing. It just didn't feel right and i said ethan year writer. You're gonna get all the screen in credit. I'm going to direct and by that time. I may have decided that i wouldn't if i'm going to direct it couldn't possibly also be the lead and i just just it didn't feel right all right cut to i went and did <hes> the iceman cometh in chicago but six seven years ago and nathan lane was was playing the lead and all we did in chicago. I thought i was going to see chicago and spend my time going out every day and exploring tocado all i did was rest because the shows five hours long and i i open my computer in there was <hes> nope. It was actually called lounge at at the time and i open it up and i kind of polished. It and i'm gonna back up just a little. It was originally written for an actor. The role that nathan ended up playing lang <hes> his name was shaken. It was written for maury maury and i did. I play together in new york but more he had passed away and i said johnathan would you would you eat this if i if i could get this done i would love for you to did you know nathan before this. I know nathan i knew nathan before even moved here. I met met him. I was at college in cincinnati. There was a young lady that was at c._s._m. Who i had this huge crush on. She left school early. She moved to new new york. I chased her here and she was doing a review called jurors. Earth jeers jay z. Go to high schools. They'd go to high schools or my jurors. Musical michael is still something. I can work on. Those notes really soon okay great. It's really solid. There's just a few okay so she's working on jersey. A jersey the musical it's they did sketches and songs about the history of new jersey play at new jersey. This'll chris's ally take this from jersey. Oh you love the right. She said there's this guy i am. Entities like seventeen is named joe lane. He's amazing and i went to see her. Do it and there was this amazing young man. It was nathan so i met nathan in nineteen eighteen seventy two. Why many years ago is that thirty nine something <hes> thirty seven years ago you say so math is that's say that's already been established. No four thirty seven years ago. I met nathan chris ward. Seven and nathan has over the years thrown. I read that he was doing the iceman cometh and i call them up and i said always wanted to do what he said. What role do you wanna play and like like a schmuck said. I wanna play this. One character will the character. After i played <hes> he was asleep for four hours and forty minutes. That's what do you mean you. It's arrest in chicago actually did falsely auto for fifteen minutes anyhow nason. I you'll read it someday literally. He read it that day. This is great. I said wow nathan and likes it. Maybe maybe i can really get this done and he's reading. What is then amaury shaken role. It's not him. I told him it was written for maury up. He was not in he he he thought it was a great role and he's great in it and then i did kickstarter <hes> did did not raise the money which i know because donated to the starter and i had the email saying how much we were trying to raise four fifty we we raised to seventy very ambitious good when we knew we weren't gonna make it <hes> the woman that was helping me run at her husband at the last minute. He said that he was going to give fifty but he knew he didn't have to because they weren't gonna get on that. Journey raised to twenty made it for two sixty now. So how much did you end making it for. We made it for six. Hundred fifty thousand dollars kickstarter was valuable because i met some people on the kickstarter that introduced me to the people that ended up that being the main financiers got and we made it and <hes> they wanted a name of course we needed a name. There were some people that the at one point point alfred molina was interested but his wife became. Ill and i met with kevin kline who was like vacillating then. I got a list of people will assist or the the morning in the lead for the lien gabriel's name was on it and we got it to gabriel who was a little unlikely because he's he's irish when i hear the name lester rosenthal neha gabriel byrne is the first actor and i think you accept it. I mean i i accept that i just you just accept it. That's why he's carrying the dog in the first scene because basically after that you're on his on his right then when the dog dies whose dog was that that was a show biz dog you really i guess show biz have to get like a dog trainer very first shot in the phil. Yes he's warming up forty fifth street and he he crosses on eighth avenue. I have to say that's the one shot that i like devised. Say that i take it must have been very early in the morning. It was supposed to be at five in the morning. Okay and we were waiting for the dog and the dog wasn't there at five children dogwoods uh-huh upstate what's and she was not there and we're calling her to go out with the as soon as i can. The zebra got loose. She had zebra on her whatever her menagerie lose and she didn't get there till seven thirty and i was not happy because it change. It was supposed to be much i i or were you shooting. In the first nine days. We shot in the facsimile fact simile of the lounge that wasn't in the land wow no the lounge didn't along existed really where we rebuilt it. Literally in three days. We found a location down on wall. Also i thought because it feels very real. Madrid did the actors equity bills right and this looked so modern oh they must have just shot in the modern modern. I had this wonderful machi takeuchi. She was a wonderful production designer opponents on the wall or gray decor the chairs yeah it. It was amazing. Inclined would have been good in the boyd gaines role <hes> i love boyd gaines yeah and i thought boy gains. I thought they were all great addition to people because i didn't know any young in <hes> asian men in amanda show at jiong guessing leon and the african american young man. He's grays on element. He's kind of blown coming up since then. Yes and everybody else was friends. A few people had offered it to but they couldn't do it but i got the old man that's kind of the gatekeeper <hes> <hes> j._r. horn. He's passed away. He <hes> he died shortly. After we shot online he was perfect. He was perfect but he was like my fourth choice and joe gra fosse was not supposed to do it was maloney but he couldn't do it. Sorry joe but i know a lot of people because the mole people liked the script and yeah there's a lot of course and you could tell going back to when you talked about how much nathan lane loved it when reading it you can tell in his performance how much he identifies with that much how much he identifies with the themes of it how much he loves that role there is so much comedy but also real feeling that he invests it with that's coming from a very a real place for him and it's it's wonderful amazing. <hes> i'm really proud of it. It was really fun to shoot not not without its tension never with the actors ever and then post production it just went to shit could just went to hell really editing. There were problems with editing and they didn't like the editing day the my money peter and they want me to do a couple things. There's a scene where nathan anthony is kibitzing with the kid and explaining the beat up. That's based loosely. Apparently charles hit somebody very early in his career and didn't work for several years and joe papp hired him to work at the public cloud and i always love that story because i love charley burning and they wanted me to chop that up and yeah yeah and there's a couple of things i say to people if there's anything that you like don't like it wasn't my idea like there's a shot he goes on my going to cincinnati and then i wanted the next shot to be him sitting in the theater but there's a shot of a plane that drove you crazy crazy so those this kind of things and i went a little bunker mentality and it became it became us versus that bought we got it done sure and we got a distributor peter monterey media who just last week the gentleman that owned monterey media i found out he passed away and they sold it to somebody else and i had a conversation sation with them and they're going to try to revitalize again with d._v._d. So it's out there. We didn't make money back but i'm happy to say there's a thing called a waterfall the ordinary yeah you pay people back in the first thing that i was able to do and the only thing i've been able to do so far is to pay my actors their residuals. I'm really happy about that good for you. Let's let's play clip. Okay chris. What do you think is a good introductory clip for the movie. We were talking about the need lane story. That's a good one to start with because you also get so much about his personality nathan contributed some of the dialogue he kind of rewrote. This is mid twenties. Nth necessity must be strong. Improviser must be able to play the guitar. No pay nudity required. I mean god yes. I remember it well. I'm not saying that won't go to the audition i will. It's absolutely will not young man. Listen to me no matter what color you are. They will shit on you. They will do whatever they can to reinforce the idea that you are a worthless be powerless nc of fucking worthless piece of shit without power but they are wrong. You know how much power you had none a ton. They can't make you do shit stove. I you in a good kid up so all right the never do that shit ever seriously man. Why are you always you. It's a long story. I am going away. I made a very strong choice. One momentous apps too strong and i've been here ever since every morning good morning. Go on please. I was in a play twenty two years ago. I know you would to anyway. I was in splendid play in which i was transcendent. Costa was tragically miscast and worse. He was a lazy prick. Terry proctor remember him. You fucked. It's terry proctor was this lazy. Miscast brick's name and he looked like this really elite anyway. He was infuriatingly lazy. Did i mention that and he consistently fucked up this one wonderful moment where he was supposed to be polishing in a pair of shoes will i wax poetic about a recently deceased. Father was a very simple task and he fucked it up every night. No matter how hard we worked he wouldn't change. You wouldn't listen to are directed to me. I really tried to help him but he was a fucker not opening night he did up again during the curtain call it came out and started waving to someone in the audience grinning wildly <hes> snapped and i punched him in a stupid fucking face and the audience gasped fell to the stage aged and then he tried to get out and i hit him again and then the other actors had to pull told me away and the curtain came down and he brought me up on charges it makes the papers and those are very bad thing uh laziness. I cannot abide laziness easiness but we do requires rigor concentration total dedication. Nothing less you remember that last time i worked damn what makes nathan lane so fucking good. Can you quantify why in the movie populated by other people who are very good at acting nathan in lane has something extra additional to me when i watch him. I don't think it can be but it's a thing it's a thing and i don't think it can be <hes> described is it skill is it innate personality advocates in eight. I think it's great i mean i think it's certainly that doesn't come from just he works on it but it's just ie's very complicated man. I know him a long time. I just think he he just has the gift the gift that inexplicable and yet at the same time. It's not something totally raw as you said i'm sure he works on it. <hes> and this is one of the reasons why the scene gene so much besides the whole punching out the idea that acting takes rigor and concentration and that that it is something other than just standing there and either looking good or juice. It's a profession profession. That's looked down upon a lot of ways or at least not taken very seriously so i think that the only by directors there at hand the general over the years that i want to remind you how hard they worked or talked about it or write the show you while they're doing it hard. They work but i was younger. I remember we get high and talk about acting and done that for years enough. It gets ingrained like he's comfortable. Nathan that i have ever had that conversation never occurred to me. I take it for granted with him and what's nathan's look based. Don here. Look is based on even though i've never watched. An episode is his name george martin yes short shorts doing george. Martin chris called. That's i just like the way the guy look. Can i said blood stress. I'm like that. I had never seen him. I didn't know too much about trying to make this quick quick. I got a two hour version of this story but sister of mine who really liked autograph books she can you my favorite george martin's going to do a signing. Can you go and it's like okay. We'll take five minutes whatever ever and i was happy going by the barnes and noble and saw that there was like a huge line. Oh gosh turns out to get in line ended up being there all day. Not knowing who this guy was is in order to finally get this autograph this creed gio thi this is in the midst of season wild and so when he did his talk talk about it was funny because he was like we have some people cool that have only know it. From the books. People only know from the show somebody you might be part way through the show or the book so try to keep all questions spoiler free so then the whole q. and a. was a nightmare because everybody not only in rat but nobody wanted to add to that guy he does it ends a lot of the whole barnes on union square multiple floors with people lined up all the way up and then finally when he was coming up you hear from the third floor you start hearing people chanting and screaming that king of the north oh my gosh here's this guy is coming up and then on the escalator is coming up and you hear those salaries and then the fishermen like gum drop of a man in the morgan mundy's suspenders and that greek fisherman's cap and the beard and like mainly cloudy a belt. Are you know a few inches above the belly and i was like this is this is when all of these people were waiting for and then he spoke and he was wonderful i don. I haven't read his pro so i don't know how good an actual writer he is but certainly his ideas that he said he was incorporating in the way he talks about people on storytelling was beautiful. I don't watch the show i just saw a picture of him and i'd worked a couple times and we got along great with an roth <hes> the the costume designer and she agreed to be the cost of designer on the film which was like a mazing and then the day. I went to her office to start talking about designs. She said <hes> i'm handing this over to one of my associates in the office office but she did dress nathan and gabriel and <hes> they agreed and i was involved in the fat suit but the fat that's it was expensive nathan's in a fat suit and i was told he paid for it and then we'd pay him back but wow it never we never did and he but he's in a fat suit but he based on that guy yeah insurance because i saw a picture of it. I love that you're confident enough to go with the choice. That's what he looks like base medium yeah. I'm not sure that's the hat he's wearing but i bought a greek fishermen cap like a year before we even had the money i just had it ready to knowing and and and i think i gave it to him but i don't think that's the hat he's wearing right now. He's great in it. Full cast and crew is brought to you by out of jack's smile a new comedy short video series from jackpot nick co writer and director of the sony pictures feature film space station seventy six and current recurring guest on grace and franky and sea nation out of jack's mind like follow at chuck comedy on facebook or chocolate dot com chocolate chocolate original comedy delivered daily we do alternative casting and chris had a couple of interesting notes from this movie when you can tell us whether these are true or not i had read. There was an article in the hollywood reporter when you were talking about the kickstarter and i think think at that time this is before gabriel byrne. I think you're saying the ted levine ted levine even remember how it happened. Ted levine ed levine for listeners from silence of the lambs among you can listen to silence of the lambs episode wherever you get podcasts. I listened to that one. Oh that's great. I love one. He listened to matz. It's the top of the form asia you get a lot of the same same same stuff. Humana charlton is but you're i get. Did you not uh-huh tat. Oh i didn't know him. I don't remember why i reached out to him but he did. You see the kickstarter video. We did a video. Our really funny video because ted is he's in the video. The video is head. I did nathan remotely and it doesn't really integrate well. I had had laurie metcalf in film grade. She had to drop out but i got frantic. She would have been francis conroy. Who's great idea was they were were doing the pitch to raise money for the kickstarter so ted was going to be the gabriel byrne character yeah and ted who was serving. It's tricky. I didn't know him. I don't remember why asked them to do it but he agreed to do it and then people said to me he's. He's a great actor actor but you're lucky because he's not very funny <hes> so i. Why would you be lucky because this a couple times where gabriel's funny yeah uh-huh. Why are you lucky if two oh you mean you're lucky that he ended up not doing it all. I see what you're saying yeah. Even though i'm sure he would have been great. If you're listening to this ted you'd have been great <hes> look if you made silence of the lambs. You'd be a little weighted down the thick with but he was he was <hes> he was. He was scary but you know interestingly. Thinly jodie foster tells the story that of all the people on the set when they were making the movie he was the kindest warmest to her. She was sort of adrift on this crazy set and he was nothing at all like his character and he would be humorous. I got to know him. We did that one day and i think it was so vague what we were doing the video breath and everybody was a little off their feet aren't they were the most uncomfortable moments when you kind of get the sense someone trying to marshal everything together. There's a bit collective disease or unease. That's beginning to emanate from your own project and you're wondering if this is it is going to it's going to stay like it's going to art or is it going for ray in directing actors. I my my confidence was a little shake well. I did want to ask you to start with a feature film. That's pretty ambitious. Yeah i mean maybe some shorts lay or assured. Never directed a play you familiar with the fifty second street three projects sheriff worked at the fifty second street project and that's all i ever directed so fifty seconds for project for the listeners is a project whereby incredibly talented broadway actors directors <music> and writers come together and work with underprivileged children to bring their stories to lane and adult actress do the place just i had. I have a feeling i could do it. I'd been on enough films and i surrounded myself with with the exception of a few people that were unbelievably skilled uh-huh and it worked out and on top of it. You know obviously speaks to you like you would say in this same story. I came up with the story of no pay nudity during dark period four or five years ago. I think it's safe to say i was struggling with not only working very much but coming to grips that certain dreams had not likely to come to fruition and my definition of success success as an actor had to be reassessed today in the last few years. I've made peace with a lot of these issues but i'm still an actor who wants to work and still find myself with certain fantasies of my youthful dreams i had how does a young actor being fulfilled. I found that a very interesting quote because you know as i said before i it's you have an enviable career and to think that there's still some <unk> dissatisfaction but all of these things the love of acting but frustration with the career elements there's so much in there that is so true to you that that comes out and i would think that any director director is going to do a great job if they know and care about what they're saying and it shines through in like in in i appreciate of did it was important to me if i'm gonna do it for the first time to do it about something that i really know right and i have another project that i that i would love to make it's about when i was fifteen. I mean i know now as well as i know this. It's another semi autobiographical film so i'm not going to direct the i have no aspirations to direct the star wars although if they offered it to me yeah you wouldn't have to come up the struggles struggles about the career that never goes away never goes away but along the same lines the beginning of the scene that we just played with what nathan's character saying about having no power and this perception in that actors have of themselves as having our perception which as directors but also the rest of the world really does go out of its way to reinforce. You didn't make a fantasy like it's is not <hes> gimblett. I'd about the profession but it's it's able to be loving in that way and recognize how frustrating that is while still acknowledging the amount of rigor that it takes. I look at that scene though and i go he's telling kid the beginning of his career not addition for something i look at it. I go oh is that. Is that a good message while he's telling him to stay pure to something to not do shed because you're not to not assume that you do have power it to have some out of standard for yourself. I think it is and that's why i i love the title. I think it's such a funny title. The idea of like the kid reads the things like oh. This part speaks nice to me. I'll do it for no pay and i'll show dick. That's very different than i'm just gonna. Go to every audition because i need to do something and it's desperation because it's about valuing being yourself and valuing the art and that's because i've already talked too much but one more thing that i thought was a wonderful <hes> observation. That's made here's in herschel voiceover specifically talking about out gabriel byrne's len right. It's a if anyone can remember her man lester lester but he goes lower lesser lawrence lawrence leicester's time in l._a. And he's talking specifically about him getting written off the soap opera and then thinking about it as a career in sort sort of the seat of bitterness that becomes planted at that point it was when they killed them off from that fucking soap opera that things went kaput it was all going doing well up to them and then they killed them off and never told him why he was out of work and that made him scare. Why did they kill me. Leon why why and then he worked less and then and only then he started using the word career career like rear a bad sign that that makes him fear therefore he works which of course then feeds on itself in such a way that we then have this borderline bittered guys the beginning who becomes super embittered by the time his friend in quotes gets apart our friends to me their friend. I guess i only put it in big clusters very ungenerous throughout the whole thing and i think the whole arc of the movie is about his ability to become more generous by losing your hit of bitterness in the center a great cameo from loudon wainwright the third <hes> <hes> do i thought did such a great job of embodying the savior for leicester but then at the end kind of also not that he puts the knife in the back of basically he has a stage reading reading and it's a great opportunity for leicester unless it does pretty well but his co-star does even better and then in a phone call which i think is a great device key is still leicester's buddy <music> but he's delivering the news that they want a name like you said the financial backers of the movie themselves wanted to name right and he's kind of like yeah man fuck them. You know maybe we'll committee will change the he's going onto the next stage of success. Let's getting left behind and he's kind of blindly or willfully unaware of what he's doing to leicester in the moment yeah yeah loudon wainwright or read his book recent. If you read the book that he wrote a book you gotta very self lacerating tone like he is not putting himself up on a pedestal salat. All his book tells a lot of stories against themselves that are not hope dr whole areas lee wounding and sad and he's someone is pretty honest about having lived a life in pursuit of fame and success in all the cash prizes that go with that at the expense of the other aspects of life and he did a great turn in this movie with. I think a lot of that stuff going going on inside of him. I had called him very early. I know him peripherally of close friends with my old old friend. Daniel stern the actor and i wanted him to do the soundtrack interesting and then my change my mind like there'd be songs with words and stuff on. Maybe a few oh okay. I had a composer and i also had any song in the film. Might my main financier owned a record label up until about six months ago he he just sold it. It was called razor and tie sure you know razor and <hes> kids bop. He owned that wow cliff chen feld. When you own kids bob you can have your boutique indie razor and tie label to do all the bands. You really are interested in finance. You can find a movie. This is a uh more power to a couple of his artists are so he just sold the company that means he can finance your next film. He's not going to finance my next. Well don't say never i would. I now i can't it's. It's a romani delay. Here's this you know what a jerk six. Hundred eighty thousand dollars turned out to be a mench. He's immensely is a match and he lost money but but that's what you do when his ring when you finance an independent feature that's what you do when you invest in broadway. I mean for crying out loud people. What do you want your money back. You got to be a part of a movie. That's the trade off but loud over the years we'd go see his shows like at the winery and i met him and i knew he acted and i want him to it and the character is loosely loosely based on stephen sondheim saying he he's not portraying him but would've very successful what the most success i was so loosely and i had to tell loud and he's not really an actor not really bunnies. He's had a warning and i had to tell them. Just you don't have to talk so loud i otherwise he was he was great. Probably the hand that well though tell me how loud to talk mr talk as loud as i need. Thanks listen as an aside this loudon wainwright the third moment the you're the father of a daughter. I'm the father of daughter. Loudon has a brilliant song. I don't know the title of it because that's my daughter in the water. Oh yeah that's my daughter. You're in the water thinks she owns everything. That's smile everything. She knows i taught him and i thought you were going to mention rufus a tit man. Do you know that i know that one yeah. That's a good one. That's that's when rufus his son. Rufus wainwright was infants. He liked to nurse about yeah. No it's the reference. I'm getting all the the double the the trip. All the entendre yeah who is the other is that we say that guy for those actors that you recognize from atv or the first show that gabriel byrne's character goes through where he's just so unimpressed at what's going on which i mentioned chris the other day the show scenes joe higgins joel higgins the acting scenes the plays are so fucking brilliant and so chris from my heart as a you know spending ten years going to williamstown theater festival you can see a lot of theater which can vary they can all be winners and just the quick little hits of the way you indicated what is going on stage. I thought we're fucking hilarious yeah with someone. That's like no no no okay dad like just. We've all seen that play. We've all spent. Two hours was in forty minutes in our seat at that play joel higgins. Where do i know him from well silver spoons. That's what it was. He was the data on silver spoons and jaw. You're all i've known him so we we the crowd that iran ah around with when i was in los angeles i met joel he was part of that the crap and then i did the music man with him at the muny and we've and we've kept in touch all these years. He's great in that off. Gabriel byrne's attempt to he's. He's not really trying very hard to complement the performance which is another great thing about this performing as he said it's a little bit inside baseball. A great thing about that scene is the delegate line of he wants wants to be competently the phillies host supposed to but he also he also feels like there's some more vanity of like but i'm going to be obviously you you were. You were yeah yeah. There's you're in it. There's a lot going on in that direction and the very fact that the jokes that he picks up on it yes rosenthal. Oh man how are ya ya it. What's been up to this guy and i we go back for ever. We did talk talk in one thousand nine hundred eighty s to how shit oh this is darrel. Hey i'm going to catch up so we've been doing lately. Well ooh little this back. You know we say show you wonderful. When courageous work you saw my show aw we saw it and it was just while that play i mean it was and you and you were just there and you were reading and living in a scrape su- such a boss move. I just had an opportunity to make up for a bad post post show behavior. I literally like twenty five years later. I i went to see one of the very first previews of into the woods the production my friend was in it. He played the baker chip zion and went backstage and i i didn't like it. I wasn't really listening okay. I was not listening well and it was in rough shape but that's beside the point. I went and i was your honest well to him. I i was honest but james aims lupine came to say hello to him his dressing room the man that wrote it and directed it and i couldn't work up anything and james levine never saw me for anything. Oh aw he's never seen me for anything and i attribute it to that. I've you know you're my spirit animal now. This is what i struggle. I find it so hard to be complimentary implementary towards someone or something that did not earn the compliment unless it's my child seven high bar okay well. I did into the woods little less than a month ago. At townhall. We needed a concert of it. It was to benefit some organization. The cleveland music institute and it was all ohio actor was just one night only and i was in it was james bond there. He came to see it. I heard what you did not see. Twenty-five five years later i've learned to listen and i was going through the situation with a personal stuff and it's all about parents and their children and i was really i was listening to really hit me really hard and i saw the value and how beautiful it is and i i wrote a note. I said i heard you were there. No i didn't tell him i was that i knew he was there. I just wrote him. I said i got a chance to be in your musical. <hes> knowing that he was there was kind kind of pathetic. I know i think that's the right way to go and i said james i just want you to know that <hes> saw it so many years ago and i just was not a good listener but i got the chance to do it and it's it's quite beautiful but i made up for for. That's gonna going in for something right after we weren't aftermath. Try the james's seeing him downstairs. That's not why i wrote him but if it if it works that way because there's so much better friends remembers this all these years later that's so i bet you i bet my does really pathetic the way i behaved i think it's i i actually worked with young actors. I don't don't know once in a while. I give they ask for a little bit of advice and i say it is incumbent upon you with your colleagues. Do you gotta find something positive to say you. You have to you know when we were in a fraternity. We have to support each other right and i regret that i agree with you a hundred percent because if if nothing else even if the work work you don't care for somebody did somebody tried very hard spot off. I will say i have seen performances or things that is like you not work on you. The things that i thought you know ninety nine point nine percent of the time people are trying their hardest and they will look back later and becca boy. I wish i had done this but let them come to that themselves. Going back to leicester's dealing with the dad from hoon's like you don't get any points by thinking you are a superior by shitting on the work that somebody just did you not out and he's also lester is very obviously not listening in both of the plays that he goes to no he's. He's not even looking at the stage now. He's he's so in his own head. Yarn i in this yeah something along those lines yeah he's he's. I don't admire him a lot of the film. He grows a little. I wanted more. I guess this is a good column into the film. After he makes the turn he goes to cincinnati dayton dayton and he's the fool in some shakespeare shakespeare era truest and that's where he's helpful to his colleagues again. He's having fun on stage at that point. I was ready for more. I wanted him to go back and make peace with all. I wanted to see that right. Did you shoot more of him. Post the turn because i would have watched another twenty minutes of his return to his life. We just didn't have an ending. I mean i don't know if you noticed but the ending is a montage not a good way to end the film so you mean on talking talking about going into it. How are we going to end this. We'll figure that out. Later was a almost that i wanted hard to add <hes> i actually went back and did a few shots like lester with the dog and less than walking down the street with donna murphy and clearly they're seen each other. I wanted to write a scene with lester and boyd yeah <hes> having a a reproche mall and boyd actually saying they cut everything i did that would radio. We didn't have the money yeah. Nobody would go for it well. I wanted to do what you just yet suggested and we. I don't know why we just kind of let the ending kind of just like now. It's there you do it in. The turn is definitely made you see that like everything that is in the montage does show that there's yeah there's growth. Thank thank you for a moment because i'm watching the scene between leicester and his daughter and i'm thinking oh this is interesting choice this actresses making i mean it's just she's basically basically doing a laurie metcalf impersonation and so then when i'm googling. I'm like oh she's louima. Come dawn. Lawrie really grady's brady's great zoe perry zoe perry and her dad's jeff perry the actor jeff perry jeff perry. You know it was on scandal. I never watched it but nobody the step in wolfer. They were married to each other charles. Married and malcolm grow stopdown hold up jeff. Perry was on the greatest single season television series of all time. Oh what was that he's getting to it. I think he was mr kaczynski on my so called life that yeah tell me you guys. We watched one season chris. It was on only one zero unreason. Was that joe j. Jared jared leto was jordan catalano and huda jeff perry play. He played mr kaczynski. He was a teacher at the school he was brilliant in this series and in the colombo cinematic universe cinematic universe why and he also was in a columbo episode in one thousand nine hundred nine called murder smoke and shadows li. If there's one thing i could complain about your career no column on our out. Please tell let me at least went out for a colombo. You're in that world. Maybe we can transition to some t._v. Work the hour long procedural years where colombo on nineteen teen literally they ryan have peter fox were very close. I think that's that forever never went out for one. I'm <unk>. It's not like i remember every audition i've ever had because it's been you would remember on it up and muslim men get but i would remember colombo. No full cast and crew is brought to you by behemoth from monkey brain comics behemoth is the dirty dozen meets the fly with little spiderman thrown in kids are turning into monsters and the government steps in to keep things quiet. Some are never heard from again but others are forced on suicide missions on behalf of a world that hates hates them as part of project behemoth. Find it on monkey brain comics dot com or call today. Let's talk a little bit about some of your t._v. V work okeydoke. I'm going to start by just playing a brief little clip here from the introduction since we've done national lampoon's vacation on the pod were we're interested in the land poon. We've talked about it a bunch and this i was i'd never heard of this which i guess is one of their early television specials done for h._b._o. Commit <hes>. I don't know this big wooden space ship or something landed and then this beaver got out of it yeah lever the curious grabbed appears suddenly in the thermal inversion above large looking city. It's only passenger her beaver from beyond the stars guided. Perhaps by the unseen for destiny beavers cleft has floated for eons from galaxy to galaxy coming arrested last on the fragile surface of this green watery planet in a little known corner of the universe is the viva's mission. Why as been brought here we go see ah i love that song by the way disco beaver from outer space. It's one of your cast members wrote that song. I think allie platon she's gone now at a sang get. I didn't know she wrote it and her husband josh white yeah it'd be ever heard of the joshua light. Show yes no if you go to the fillmore east which i never did 'cause i wasn't living here then but there it was a light show and it was very psychedelic light show okay and josh kind of invented it. I remember her from doing one of the boys and you could probably even watch sure joshua light show the kind of the effect that it made and like tie dye and paint the it's hard to describe but the way this happened undisclosed <unk> from outer space. I was in a show. I had done a few things here in new york. I got cast in a show called the present tense it was a sketch show and then we would improvise sketches and then a play right by the name of jeffrey sweet would rewrite them and they would be the sketches and also there were musical numbers. Some of the contributors abusers who alan menken weekly chain because this show we did it for about a month most interesting thing about it at least to my mind is that it was produced by a man dan name roger ailes. Yes roger wanted to be my manager really roger roger atv roger ailes. Here's what roger was doing at that time. It was mayor loyal nineteen seventy third street right off the park central park west. It's right behind the dakota okay. It's a big building in it they did. I'm sure they don't now nice amenities for the insurer now. It's a two bedroom so we we had done like a workshop of it. Roger was a producer roger was at that time primarily but he did the mike douglas show for years and he was working with politicians and make an helping them get media savvy and one of the guys that worked for him was steve rosenfeld and he directed the present tense and roger produced reduced. It and roger wanted to be my manager and we friendly. Did you have a manager at the time. He wanted to be a german agent. I got an agent by being in in this show this show it puts you on them out me on the map. I the review in the new york times. I got six paragraphs six. Yes i do remember this and i got an on agent and i got allow tension in norman lear came to see it. Norman lear flew me out west and that's what i always wanted to do and that's why moved out there. The show closed abruptly got an an o._b. I got a drama desk nomination. One of the things i did was sing that song that i mentioned to you addressed as a hostage ju- singing this kind of pathetic song called possum pie and i did another scene where i went blind norman lear stand up and pay attention. I was on a blind date with a young woman and i put a pinas genus on my nose and i had a little puppet and i just went hi. Hi hi sorry. This is how you got. The party is and why did i mention this because it away so norman lear had a show. I don't even remember the name of it. He flew me out. They do audition and it didn't work out. It was all in the family and he saw the hasidic thing and he was like i was going to be perfect but we were talking about the national lampoon so between the kind of off broadway production of the present tense and the final off broadway rodgers was having trouble raising the money and i i in the interim auditioned for the national lampoon show which had been performing down at the village gate for years they were doing a national tour right and i got cast in the meatloaf was doing it and i got cast in meatloaf sparked he'd been doing in new york and i got cast in it and that's where i met the people what he meatloaf then yes and i got cast in his part and that's where i met matty simmons young ran national lampoon and he liked me and the present tense happened and i didn't do the national lampoon national tour but he put me in this go here from outer space. Put me in delta delta so delta house was the tv spinoff of animal house. You play einstein. Let's play a clip. It was so over the top that the network after like the third episode came to who i think matty and they went gotta tone. This kid down down amongst over acting on a mate for the i was why i it was kinda. Talking like this and acting like it was so nerdy that it was it was like a martian. It wasn't like human we way too much fun. I'm sure cloudy here need to poly sci paper supposed to be tomorrow morning long medium idiom or short pages okay. I have here a twelve pager on the treaty of abreast hosts out of the university of michigan nineteen sixty. It's only been used twice and never at favor guaranteed a b. plus for seventeen fifty theft. I deliver a tight with your name on it. We'll take it can't you. It's party time there. You have it in many ways. The prototypical typical lee will cough guest player role which you would then do on innumerable t._v. Shows always playing some variant of sort of the doctor the scientists that tech guy the guy's gonna explain some very complicated business the nerd most of the time walk into a room and drop some. I did that in an episode of heart to heart love tarzan robert wagner took to me. I was only supposed to guest on that and i think i ended up doing like fourteen to them and would have continued to do more but little shop came along our tires before little shot. I was cast in it about nineteen. Eighty eighty one niche mich- and i left to do hard sues you yup. You played stanley freese in hard part. That is what you call him and bobby be or rob r._j. R._j. All these are j. Whenever may she rest in peace natalie would come. He would say your girlfriend's here and he would bring me dressing room and we would sit across from each other and you would just i would just you all apart. No i wouldn't even talk. I wouldn't know what what to say. It was so i'm with natalie wood wishy nice she she was a doll. They're both night. She was very shy he was. They were great. Stephanie powers didn't like me really oh. She's so fun on the show she didn't. She didn't go for me. She probably wanted the comic relief to herself could figure it out or maybe she didn't like because r._j. Like thank you and i think i mean she was she was not he was so warm to making an. I loved whenever i could. I would spend all my time like at the feet of lionel stander. He's lionel stander. I mean the first actor to be blacklisted. He's it's just just was just. I was like heaven just just being in his presence in here's a little of your highlights. This is this is your life -ly. This is a little highlights highlights of you as stanley freese in on heart heart yes mr heart. Staling freemason wanted to see me hanley freezing. Yes i did well. What can i do for you. You you name it. You got it. Whatever you say whatever it is whatever you liked. Would you like mister heart. Fever cheers is going over this in your way. I guess they weren't a big enough fan to let you have your lines comparable that they made of all your moments. Let's say you're getting very good jazz tickets from yes that's right. I'm gonna jazz and say this is a white man dancing with the stephanie powers. No it was her first tv show. We'll figure out her name. Amy madigan emmanuelli really her first her first tv show. I can't tell whether putting the theme from cheers over this is a compliment to you <hes> <hes> because they love you so much. They just want to like see you not hear you. I don't know it's very strange. Choice everybody in your name so you're in l._a. At this time i moved to l. a. Right after the present tense disclosed <hes> i had an uncle that lived in ventura and he had a deli in oxnard and i worked at the delhi by day and i would drive into town how it was called our gang deli but it was called a deli but it was a license that officially from the little rascals were you in violation as adelie knowing on cole who i love the statute of limitations for infringement increase. I don't think uncle pete license. You use the our argonne characters. No had the font. I think it did happen to have we sandwich. I don't think the sandwiches were and there was like two jews in oxnard so you and your uncle sixty miles having sixty miles audition in at night and he'd give me the day off. If i had an audition wow and i gave myself six months and nothing happened and right before i was gonna leave i did the gong show which unfortunately really we couldn't find a clip on on that doesn't well it. Does exist can not not that episode well. I think you can buy oh maybe a d._v._d. Of the complete gong show but we didn't go that extra mile. What did you do on the gong unit very -fensive character. If i recall i had done this character in the present. Tense elvis had just died right and we came up with. I play the banjo. I had written. This song. Apropos of nothing called possum pie is going to be the next elvis on the gong show no in ladies and gentlemen. We've just lost elvis but someone is here to take his yeah to fill his his cut off his head. Marsha morrison walks out things on the banjo possum pie so i decided i'd sing it on the gong show and it has some some lyrics lyrics which today would perhaps be less than politically correct and it's sure and my god gong j. p. morgan course made some <hes> even more double entendre drea response to my double entendre and then then i tell the story that happened the next day but i know it happened within the next week. I got got offered it can't have you can't do this anymore. Because of the nature of the business because you have to go to the network and you have to sign things i got offered to pilots on the same day i i wanted them was that you would audition for privy addition. Previously one of them was for norman lear was called apple pie and i took the dramatic show called webb w. w. e. base the woman that produced <hes> they said was the prototype for faye dunaway in network. Her name was lynn boland oakland and she was a network executive. It was her answer to the kind of horrible person that they dunaway was in network but she was so oh antipathetic it was played by this actress named pamela bellwood who i think went on to do dynasty and i played the head of research named harvey perlstein face loosely. They claimed on fred silverman <hes> who was running n._b._c. time. I don't know why put it on the air because my understanding was he loathed it. He loathed that. I remember we'd day there was a big n._b._c. Party and i went up and tried to speak to him and <hes> ah probably the biggest blow off i've ever gotten in my life so nine hundred opera about pamela bellwood head of special events programming at transatlantic broadcasting company a t._v. Network jack kylie's they had a programming gus dunlap head of the news. Dan castillo is the sales chief walter. Matthews is the head of operations and harvey perlstein is the research head lots backstabbing amongst this group characters and the actors were richard base heart. He was the head of the news department and guy name alex cord award and andrew prime. These were like they played a lot of cowboy roles. Yeah and web was the first show zam or w. E. w. w. e. b. How did the norman lear apple pie ever go to series. It went to series we were the first show cancelled that season and apple pie was cancelled the next apple pie with room mcclanahan dabney coleman. I didn't know who they were and i- i fancied myself a serious act of course and <hes> <hes>. Did you see what stanley freezing did harvey. Perlstein didn't do much. I am lebel. Would i have seen with her and she went to lynn. Bolan and lynn boland rowland said he doesn't know how to act. I really i'm going to say this. I had no idea what i was doing. As i didn't know what the hell i was doing and i was not particularly. Well trained. Luckily ahead a little kernel of ability. I really was not prepared. I thought i was going to be a sitcom guy. If i do anything this is what they'll do with. I have a lot of people the neurotic people have some idea of what they're like if they're going to be a star where it's going to happen right and i thought it's probably going to be in sitcoms. I think did like three of them and i always it was never enough time and they need a lot of her soul. It just didn't work. It didn't work out that way. It's fine. It's funny because watching you in some great sitcoms like newhart yeah. Where are you played elliott gabler the literary agent i was his age. It has an effortless feel. You seem on the screen to just be completely at ease amidst among everyone. I was not a real carry. It's funny saying this but i was not really teams like the apple pie. One actually was a sitcom for the nonsense ause talk about a fear of flying created as as you had mentioned this birdie persona that was fashionable for a while and that went out of fashion pretty quickly but i played a lot of those kinds of roles but made real characters out of them. I was talking to jason yesterday about how having watched that episode of hunter. Yes where you come in as i mean it's a good show. There was a clip of me yeah yeah. We're gonna play it. Oh i had never seen fred dryer and stephanie cramer. Do you know how she spelled her name s. t. e. p. f. a. n. really anyway. She's she's insane. She's the team is you're seeing the one thing i remember i think i'm smoking and chewing gum coffee which ruins both the coffee and the gum as you delivering exposition and it makes the characters so alive and so much more than just this position dump that potentially could have been a lot out of the business that jen's a little extra to it so you won't be acting. Maybe it becomes the character gives it some distinctive and feels like oh. This is a real person. I didn't play elliott gabler here on your coffee. Help you satisfied. You just drove them out of the room surprise. You did want to share credit for that. Sometimes i wonder if my aunt lillian didn't have the right idea of ah dick great to see. Why aren't you writing elliot. What what what are you doing here. The publisher wants pillow talk now so i came out to get you you you didn't have to do this. You're my client. I'm involved. I care and this way. I can write off my ski weekend so hand over that little monster. They can't my collaborator and i are having some artistic differences. Oh god well now. What are we gonna do. Elliott joanna high will will work it out. She just wants to make a few changes and i'd rather die. I dick you're obviously too emotionally involved. What you need is a disinterested third party to read that book and then make a final decision volunteering. It should get this over with it. I don't think you wanna go along with it. The best i can do is talk to her all right. Do what you have to but if you have any problems just remember. I care care. I'm involved lake slopes there you go. I thought you're great. You're going toe to toe with eight comedy legend agenda great deliverer of lines and you are in the scene with him and it's seamless to me. I mean i'm not saying it's the highest of art art but i'm saying bob newhart and i think you are you are in that scene with him in a great way i appreciate that i think i may have mentioned to you got back to me. He didn't in want me to be on the show anymore. That's how you know you were good. Yes that's right. You don't want to share the good see. I always thought he didn't think i was funny. Little scene where i came in the shoes. That's the only thing i remember. I have no but i do remember remember this. It's a suit that i think they wear when they downhill. You are george the why don't you show the guys how to play monopoly sure thing. It looks nice paint job that one is always stuck in my thing because because i thought i was going to do a lot to do i was happy to be in his presence really he's. He's incredible boy. We've got a chance to work with a lot of comedic great. Madeline kahn was another one rebel madeline jonathan winters and madeleine. I had no memory of what i did on it but i have memory of her special or is it was a series. I think it really just did an episode and episode. Can i the biggest the biggest crush on her. I mean she was just she is brilliant to divide and sweet and and i remember she asked me if i had a girlfriend. Lee and i think it was married. What year was that. I think there was married. I i was with connie. It was by nineteen. We had a little league flirtation sure and that was special to me while you're looking up your notes on whether you were romantically intimately involved with your own wife or not meddle in wayne craves excitement in her mundane life leading her to try every fad dragging her friend doors along or husband charlie a romance novelist watching watching things unfold with his buddy robert whose doors x one season and out yeah but i was that was thrilling. I worked on. I don't even is it listed. The show was canceled the day. I was working. We never shot at it was called chicken soup and it was <hes> jackie mason a we mentioned hunter which i love this is another role for you like you do this exposition in the scenes and this one is quite a lot of exposition. Yes a lot of words. There's no. It's just it's. I'm sort of like this. I mean you have a lab coat. You have allowed to assume oh. You're a doctor some kind. I think they call. He called me doc. Do remember him and he was. He was very nice guy. You're right hundred there is something about that last last phone message from the hague really correct. It's about eleven thirty a._m. Listen maybe at the corner of east. It's brooke and delano an empty lot there. You'll be real pleased by watch how lilo message blaze up. Hey this is the rat put on quite a show really boy well. We're all real pleased by to see how you got your highest spikes on the words you'd give the most stressed dressed to the first word in a sentence important words punchline eleven a._m. Calculator lilo oh now now watch the very last message. Hey really it's about eleven thirty. Am listen meet me at the corner of east brook orlando. Almost all the words spike hi so what you're saying is that the last message was not the rats voice. It was imposters. No no no it's the rats voice all right but he never said those words in that order really a threat about eleven thirty. Am listen meet me at the corner of easterbrook brooke delano epilogue. There will be real pleased by now. Did you hear those clicks. I re recorded the message and pushed up the volume now. Those clicks are what edit sounds sounds like it seems like someone was taping the rats voice and took the words out of context edit them into a new message which was played over the phone and into willie's answering machine that that would account for both the excessive stress on so many words and the absence of background music borrow this machine duck hunter your reputation breakable objects. Harping gum chewing is really disturbing. It's like i'm eating a piece lisa steak hunters. A good show fred dryer great charisma never want really wasn't an actor. He just couldn't have been nicer guy. <hes> he was <hes> it was between him and ted danson for <hes> for cheers oh yeah and another and he seemed to be like a guy. He didn't give a shit but he gave take it too serious now. He didn't take himself serious after a successful professional sports career. He's like this is what you guys get all upset about. Who is actually hitting. I think this is great and he was a cop constructively shell. The concept of the show is who are very innovative at the time was a cop who breaks all the rules never saw that before yeah he keeps breaking stuff and getting sort of flustered with due process cast and crew was brought to you by two different guys on a bench approach a new comedy series from american vandal star ryan o'flanagan two different guys on a bench where ryan talks to ryan on the bench. We leapt comedy simple folks. Two different guys on a bench videos can be found now on facebook at chocolate comedy like and follow chuckle for the latest and greatest short form comedy. The videos juggler original comedy delivered daily. Let's get to something good while i was gonna ask about. You've been both the single episode player. You've also have been regular on quite a few shows. Can you talk about the difference in the mindset when you're aghast. We are a foster child. Okay some shows. You're an unwanted foster. Child is just like they leave you. Some shows your embraced but i understand it. It's not easy being a guest being regular. It's a nice feeling you're part part of the family. You know everybody's name for me. My greatest experiences at least in in the theater are the dressing room. You know <hes> the cast and being regular is always <hes> ferry. I always felt so comfortable coming on and guesting. I always spell off balance. Yeah especially on these shows that have been on here for the last thing that i really guest on maize maize. They were very nice jason. I loved what i got to do that. One was i was lonely but so what i mean i like what i wanna do is being a regular on. This series is really fun when you're talking about being a regular series what about doing a film. We have a more substantial role. Does that have a similar sort of comfort feel yes and even though it's for too often but a couple of films was a film called chattahoochee. I was down in south carolina for a month. That was great and do you like the vagabond existence or is it hard to be away not because it hasn't happened that often. The only time i really have been away from my family doc was i went off and did wicked for nine months and then seven months and that was to pay for junior and senior year of college but i didn't make i never made it like a concerted decision not to be way of national. Tours didn't come up that films. I always loved going going on location. I got to go to bulgaria to do this. Film copland grey zone which is still mutt my most kind of proud and special moment directed by tim blake like nelson tim's use me in three of his films and i just did a play that he wrote at the public i did this play called socrates so tim's been very interesting. I think phil really wonderful to me and really a wonderful man and an interesting film director but i love going on location to when you end up with something like ally mcbeal. You're living in l. a. at the time no we left l._a. In ninety two shot that in l._a. didn't they david kelly liked me from something and and brought me out and started using me and then we had a little weird little falling out you and david kelly. I'm not a not charles was at the same time alley mcbeal was on. He did this little thing. It was like a clip show called alley and they wanted to use a clip from ally mcbeal on allie of me and my agent at the time demanded the be paid certain amount of money <hes> and and david kelly was reported to me said i don't want to ever hear lee will coughs name again woah mcnamee and i wrote them a letter because i had this nice relationship with because he then he stopped using me on ally mcbeal and the ladder and then he brought me back on oh he did. I did seven of those. You could probably go to ally mcbeal convention appearances. If you wanted wanted to possibly could i get. My name was nixon district attorney nixon. I always lost and yet you still got reelected listed did on his thing. I wonder what the hell it was so. It's like a clip of the it's like a compilation of the last year they sold into. I think so god mcbeal was a huge t._v. Show did really out there stuff yes well that was sort of his signature narrative. They had the the first. I <hes> co ed bathroom. They all like be in the bathroom at the same time. I was on the show. We have that in hampshire going back. Yeah i know max headroom. I work with the same people because we worked yeah. We were part of the network and we all i say ninety percent of my scenes scenes or around a conference table and we would watch a screen. I mean it was it was the technology did had not caught up with the idea of the show right yeah dan yes and it was excruciating so we spend a lot of time just hanging out and kibitzing. I was just watching. We've we've been watching since fantastic. It's really the ideas that are in there and some crazy out got away with when my daughter was literally in the delivery room rumors. This is all they wanted me to be on the set so was eighty. She was born in eighty seven so it was probably eighty six eighty eight i did. I don't know how many of those i think there are thirteen episodes all told in your in every single. One of them reminds me. A lot of brazil in the lights. Through the glass is in the sort of atmospherics. I said to chris the other day. I can't think of another show that did more with obviously less of a budget and i think he had to do with the ideas behind it like they ed very definite point of view and so you forgive a lot of the nothing severe but the elements that fall short just because the idea is so compelling in this world world where television has taken over everything you know what's funny and i mentioned jay probably board hearing. There's a book that i read recently that came out in eighty seven called amusing ourselves to death which was about the rise of television vision. This is about the same time and i didn't realize until reading it. How relatively new in eighty seven television still was and there were people hadn't quite thought through uh-huh in possibilities that were there. There were a lot of things that we take for granted now. At that point we're still so new alive so the fact that this show and actually this go beavers matters face the fact had these meta things about what it's like to be watching television to get the images and the fact that everything religion entertainment politics in max headroom all become part of television decided by ratings was very of its time and fresh nato even if the scripted and always explain everything you kind of go with because there's such a strong sense of the world you had mentioned about a limited budget. The producer called me at home. When they got picked up for a second season he literally she called me and i agreed to take a certain salary for the second season without consulting. My agent was going to kill me. What are you meeting with greek and did he called me. You know i wanted to be on it just a really interesting weird. I like things that are weird. That's why like wild rock. It was so weird. I heard it has the weirdest opening sequence of any t._v. Show i think i've ever seen it's like randy. Newman in like a studio environment not with the cast is there are some cast members stephen bochco and like the executives are like groupings and <music> who go back pay in order. That's the intro segues to cop pop-rock not police action but it makes a certain kind of saying. I understand that <hes> the final episode they break out of character do something similar sort of. I guess it makes ah kind of i mean as much sense as musical about cops on television could possibly make but it makes sense because you know even at the time. There were a lot of cop shows. We'll take advantage witting separates you and it was ahead of its time. Cop shows like this are overwrought and heightened and that's the same landscape ape of a musical and so it's not that jarring when the moments of song occur it works. This is a little bit of a courtroom gospel number. I believe you're in this yard. Isley has the jury reached verdict. We have you on hit <music>. You could see now who's got <music>. We have seen all have this ball aw fool escom and this abuse of a child. I was confused. Yeah i got so you ma. I wanna make it clear. I wanna thank your ah yup. Uh-huh ah oh the i took a walk and i know it's like derailed gorgeous on copper but i'm telling you if you watch some of these episodes towards the cop side stuff the action interpersonal stuff of the cops and the d._a.'s and all this stuff it's executed at very high bochco esque level and then the musical numbers to me. We are often pointedly dramatically at kind of brilliantly staged on the record for congress thing that happened with cop rock. I addition probably probably for steven bochco show. You directed monday castle. What a what a what a newcastle rose scape from new york why the the last starfighter steve bochco his show was did he have n._y._p._d. Blue yes yeah okay. I auditioned for that. Probably twenty times never got cast showed totally should have been in the n._y._p._d. I totally agree somehow. They were gonna cast me in. You got back when you did law and order for like thirty episodes or whatever right i did. I think i was on law and order. I was maybe i'm guessing and i don't think s._v._u. I i did i did the first season of the original and i did their last season odds. You're a judge i was a judge. I was an assistant d._a. I was a principal alive. I love how they bring back the same actor to play like different jails in the same university like wait a minute. That guy was a judge. That wasn't necessarily what happened. This thing that happened with voted. Yeah i got the motive. They wanted to make sure i could sink yet. I'd already done little shop lobby that if you know what he did what i had to do was win the sing for mike post. She's and i also pressure to get that audition. I went to some place down in westwood and made a recording of myself singing good lovin by the young rascals to sing that one line then seriously they were taking it very seriously and all those people that were singing <hes>. They're all session singers in l. A. and they came up to me and they went. You can sing and i went. I know the allies in and then i sang <hes> i wasn't supposed to singh. He's guilty because i'm his lawyer and greg abbott was he said. Did you saying he's guilty. I'm going to have to shoot this all over over again and i went wait a minute. No i'm his lawyer and even i think he's kept it kind of were does work but he was furious at me. That's hilarious. Beverly hills butts is a curio for me because i was a huge hillstreet blues guy and this was sort of the classic classic ill fated. Ill conceived spin off. Let's take this great greedy new york peripheral character in this show that's totally working and throw him him into a completely unbelievable scenario in los angeles to calm and maybe it'll be a show. I think that's that's my no memory except really that <hes> what's his name was great. Tennis fan couldn't have been nicer. I think i could tell he didn't give a shit about i mean he. He's a person that he knew he knew what was having no idea what i did. Here's a little of you in what episode number four of beverly hills wrong wrong show my god mr fred luke kuhn. Excuse me norm bus. I'm working on the inner. Cal air disaster your client. Marian harris called what about you. I told her not to speak with you anymore. Just a minute of your time mr mccombs right your clients got a problem on your problem right now mr macos excuse me you got any idea how these cases work of course they accumulate data making offers to who lower not higher they just lower. We sat oh there's low offers and then there's low offers. These people play on people's feelings. People are grieving. They don't wanna wanna fight secrets in a closet. They don't want discovered or week lawyer sayeh family lawyer people are leaning on him for support but he don't know beans about aircrash crash. That's not true look. You're supposed to be her old family friend. Could i suggest you do a friendly thing and refer her to one of the pros like <hes> jacob ravitz. You're kidding nick. Hey a dog is getting nearly four times. What your clients get look. Rabbits may be good but i'm good too and you could believe i'd step aside of marion. Dan harris wanted me to but she won't the woman saint how's that i mean she's a simple loyal honest person mr bunce yeah but but overall so you think you could describe mrs harris as saint and nobody joke. You could give it a try. I mean courts short term memory. We lost macroom. She don't want this thing in court. At dennis france men talk about a guy who is selling some material that i think we can all agree. Here wasn't quite up to like n._y._p._d. Scripts under the he's not it's. It's a pretty soft cell say he's moving. He's getting through the day here i had had. I can't tell you what was going on in that same. I have no idea what i'm a lawyer. I think you're i think you're a lawyer. Her lawyer doesn't make sense because somehow you're gonna use your statement that your client is a saint something or something any dresses awesome adly especially in los angeles. That's how he's a duck outta. Water dressed ducks episode. This is his l._a. Garb ask dennis. France survived it to then go on to become anti sipowicz for probably ten years on n._y._p._d. Blue that's he doesn't work anymore. I don't know and seeing them in. You got if i was him. I know he didn't need to know. He's a chicago guy from chicago yeah. He hasn't worked since n._y._p._d. N._y._p._d. Blue choice god more power to him. Well i mean he did work from nineteen sixty five on hayes tire until two thousand i five should we move onto latchkey t._v. Lead this is is our segment where we provided you with a dated copy of tv guide. We'd like you to cast your mind back to. I don't know where you latchkey child or. Did you have parents at home. When you came komo from school. Mom was home almost home book. We avoided her. We just town. She's not home really we just we went and watched t._v. Okay so <hes> be provided. A snack and you were free to do till was time when my dad got home and then we had to do our homework lot of discipline it would be great if in the episode the addition i gave you which is probably eighty five. It'd be great if you were in something that was listed in this thing so let's just see what you're the home when i got home i have to watch denmark's star-spangled look at denmark's week long celebration america's independence day wait which end markets are independent and that's to watch and then there was a movie on at the same time so i'd go back and forth it's called ham bone and hilly and i just just the tightest the dry van i would watch bugs bunny and woody woodpecker course yes <hes> because i love what he would pecker really and yeah more than bugs yeah. I loved woody woodpecker here. A lot of people claiming woody deserve this sir. What was his thing he was. He was like so. He's like a wise cracking yes yes. He talked and he he he did not observe the rules subversive okay con- yeah he would not be bound by regulations and and you peck a lot like the trees when i so an accident woodpecker. I was very disappointed. That would always be a lot of explosion of wood chips on quick. This is in the neighborhood. People think it's who is that leave shown us. It's like that. I like this this illustration. It's actually for a like a lubricant company in oil. Oh you got it. I got it made in ohio before raising arizona killer and hi both have the same tattoo and i think it's that same tattoo we should do raising arizona and then i'd watch father knows best. Are you familiar with that. Of course i never seen it and greenacres. Shahjahan red blooded man. It was more about the surreal like a talking pig. The comedy was very really out there. It was really really <hes> what's his name. I love him. He was from he was from wish mount mountainous eddie albert eddie eddie albert. Josh ogle bore pat pat haney. All these character guys always loved the carrot as always always attracted to the character which the greatest that guy you ever met in your acting career like. Did you ever meet an m emmet walsh. I work work with law she did. We call them ma'am. I did a film called chatahoochee which starred <hes>. I mean i had thanksgiving with gary. Oldman <hes> dennis hopper wrestler gary oldman compromise it was he had some he had he had some days but generally very sweet jazz hopper gary oldman and emmett wall and you are in a movie together matt craven guiding gary klar frantic arm and <hes> pam sounds good pam read <hes> it was directed attended by getting mick jackson. It was destroyed in the editing room own really <hes> but it was a hoochie in one thousand nine fifty five florida. A korean vet has a breakdown is incarcerated in a maximum security mental health prison where patients are abused and is a good story. Yeah i played most of my stuff was was with gerry or in dennis senior inmate and i'm an inmate had to do crazy. I was crazy. Shout my wife fucking hand home the dow so yeah i work with amit and he was probably the most what's the word well first of all he would not eat thanksgiving with us why we all loved him and he didn't he just was he didn't enjoy the love. Love didn't think so thing was the owner he was such a loner but that's a thing. Isn't it actors like you wanna be alone in the crowd. You want to be alone on the set. I think he wanted not to be alone but he <hes>. I couldn't figure them out but i hear. I don't think she's wanted to sit at his feet. I always loved the older character guys. Everyone did god he's been in so many when i did the front page of the front page down and there was a character. Guy's name was ray sara. He was also a bag man for the mafia and one day he brought to me and concurrently with being an actor. One day brought your valuables before the show and he said i got twenty three thousand dollars in small bills and stage management wouldn't hold it for him and those are the guys i loved character. Guys got in raising arizona story is that he had this huge part in their first movie <hes> similar simple bowl and then he said i wanna be in all your movies and they really didn't have much for him to do but they gave him the scenes in it because those scenes are pretty <hes> <hes> extraneous but not that he wasn't warm but that he was just sort of he was he was by no means yeah he wanted to be alone and it was made me sad the most famous person i ever met with cary grant ooh big i was doing sweet charity in los angeles and after the show actually always told by like the publicity people don't talk to him. He's going to be downstairs his own talk to him. And of course i went up to mr grant. I said that's a mr grant. Have we ever met. I said no. We've never met he. We've met i went. I remember and i said you watch television and i said you see me on tv because we have this nineteen eighty five hunters drinking coffee and you know john go carry hunter and scarecrow and mrs gain like all those guys always watch that stan would drop acid and he was famous for dropping. James wants to do like a one person show where he would extol the virtues of acid. I never heard of how i believe. At some point later in his career he did sort of a an intimate evening with cary grant tour where he spoke and i think during talk a lot it on acid. Please go on with your time when i would watch the first few few minutes of west side story. The movie risen greats no no that's all we need a remake of it. Well puzzled. I'm sure i one wasn't great. I know this isn't that the whole thing that's gonna fight. It's two hours romeo and juliet with greece gangs in the streets yeah mark right. Yes okay like a less funny greece. I would watch the first few minutes because it's pretty funny now. I am in this however in something. I am in this time paradox of him like i'm gonna use challinor first lady of the world it works. Maybe it was is a t._v. Movie it was about nor <hes> after he died and you played eleanor rose at home. Now jean stapleton who i didn't know at the time then i met met her son. Who's one of my closest friends named john punch and then i became quite friendly with gene and i did this tv movie although i looked looked at my i._m._d._b. And it's not on there it's not on there. Why is that. I don't know who did you play. I played a reporter. I don't i didn't have a name all lines. I i had lines i actually edited today and i added it and hopefully it will be on because then. I'll have one hundred and one i._m._d._b. Credits if they to make eleanor the first lady. I know minutes even though i'm not credits because i remember when we were in that sure sure let's keep moving. I i would watch take me. The same way with star roy was in it cut you out. I get residuals for this. I've been cut out if i get residuals from this laughable sound system works chris yeah yeah. I get residuals from like i was. I love him. He xanadu that i was cut out of you were in xanadu you <hes> but he was then another couple of hours. We're gonna have to we're going to have to and i don't remember i headed blew the day i worked but they cut me out of it but i- residuals. I don't remember you'll remember no. I mean granted at xanadu living newton john's part and colds. I remember shooting it. I mean i remember where we shot it. We shot it on the lot at universal and i remember i was walking walking and talking to somebody i don't remember who but a minute but my point is i still get residuals but eleanor first lady the world the reason i'm sure a minute because they shot got it on the kiwi to down in long beach. I i was there so i know i'm in it and then i would watch best of groucho just because it's groucho groucho and i think you're a weird small child who's into groucho marx of course then for some reason i would watch japan today japan today japan's japan today. Is there any other any slugs on the stories. They're covering no just as magazine show and then i would watch beverly hillbillies and then i'd go to bed. That's a pretty good tv tv day and nice and varied yeah. He's like japan today and beverly hills. He wants a little information about the world but he also loved when i was as a kid. There was a guy on in cleveland on friday nights goulart. Oh yeah guardian gherardi is worth names dad paul thomas anderson and he he would show horror movies three times a year he would show the black and white original version of little shop of horrors which is why i was familiar with it when i not staying when i got a called and said do you want audition for this musical blog. Lardy was like a pre elvira type. That's present local local yokel and i'm pretty sure he was high and he would blow he would he would be able to do some sort of technology. The movie would be on we'd be watching it. He would insert himself itself in and he would blow up like firecrackers during the breaks little lady soga another fun fact about that little shop of horror movie jack nicholson send correct was in it. Yeah that's right. They shot that film <unk> myth is and i believe in two days and if you watch the scene in the dentist's office the dental chair falls over and that's the end of the scene. They didn't want to shoot it and also you. Are you going to do better than that. That's a grade paid by them when they did little shop actually on the west coast of the play the people from the original came and saw that was pretty great. That's so fun so that must've been when nicholson was like a contract. He didn't see it. Yes he he did he did lots of roger corman. I even ron writing and directing. That's all right now now when they made the eighty six version of the movie. Did you have any expectation. Hope real heartbroken when i hi what's his name rick meraz <hes> i was no because i didn't think you'd never get the move you don't get the movie but hopefully i hoped and howard ashman claims and i believe that he pushed to have your may but rick moranis china's was the nerd of the hour done ghostbusters but the woman that played audrey yes yes. I was more disappointed when i didn't get to do london. I thought that was feasible. Uh-huh never seen the movie i saw when it came out good member enjoying it so like it and they did <hes> somebody arranged private screening room. Wow i remember crying for like the first five minutes because i was disappointed and then i went and they're doing it again. Yes you you be involved in some promotional way. I will fight and tried to be considered for mr bush nick but they'll go they'll go with. I don't know the living in a time now where that gets a little bit more respect and courtesy as a casting choice. I mean who are they gonna get. I will talk down mencken and i will say the put me off a list. Yes he seen me. Do it a couple times. So don't you think i mean the the point of doing these revivals. Now is to have the whole experience of complexity element into certain legacy elon name free. It might be possible now. Did i tell you that i saw you in little shop of horrors ars in probably must've eighty six eighty seven. Were you in it. Then i was at the orpheum well i did. I did it when it opened there right and then i filled in when someone is on vacation and you may have signed on for the next five years. I know that i saw the one where the things came down from the top the monster off the no the back the top so that was the orpheum orpheum but i wasn't doing it all the time time. I didn't save my stub. Did you see alan green. I don't think so she was she worked long. Got thirteen or fourteen but it was a longtime guy was thirty nine thousand nine hundred eighty two okay and <hes> so you would fill in. I would fill in when i did at six months in new york six months in in los angeles then when i came back to new york whenever somebody went on when the seymour went on vacation rather than using the under study who understudied other characters and they would use who's make excellent latchkey t._v. Thank you thank you and i'm so glad that you got to see you. See yourself as the first lady of the world. That's like a nugget of oh really in it. I mean he was really sad. Thing might be cut out. I don't know if i'm in the cast list of xanadu but i was in. It and i get residuals residual. They cut you out of the movie. They have to give you the residual that's great. It's weird. It's not listed here. Santa do a lot of insanity to go eight. Scenes deleted contain gets a scenes deleted credit. You don't get a scenes deleted. What about davis rules with the great. Jonathan winters memory <hes>. I don't think i had anything. I didn't have scenes with him. I mean i'm disappointed that i didn't get them. No no no no memory of doing doing the show really know that weird now. There's a couple of shows that i just cannot tell you what i did on more than i. I can't even most of them. I have a slight light memory of something that when i if you had scenes with jonathan winters you i would in the construct which i guess is randy quaid plays. He's a widower who has three children and and he lives with his dad. Who's jonathan winters so john winters has all these incredible scenes with the kids right the one. I saw he was giving them like terrible. Just making it up right on the spot go away. Somebody was telling me they did a show. With jonathan winters another sitcom he'd have his own camera and the camera would stay on him and it would cause you could never catch and then they'd edit it and it would be inserted. He would do fifteen minutes. It's sad we just had vacation and randy created such a great comic actor and now. I don't know what to the dark world yeah well. Let's risk it sometimes risk if you live out there on the edge isn't i was gonna follow. The dental chair falls over and you along with it. Okay chris has a special way of taking us out. We often go out on a final line and i thought appropriately. Thank you very much for joining us for about your work and forgiving jason and me as well as our listeners a ground truth view of acting as an art a profession and the life. It's it's not that lester. Rosenthal stage name lawrence rose disagreed with the acting teacher when she said do something else with your life. He knew she was right. It was going the life of rejection and humiliation and injustice it is for all of this and that's that he tried to figure out a way to do something else with his life but he couldn't it was in it was in his blood and not a wary was born. This is where lester rosenthal would end up here amongst angst his people thank you for listening to this episode of full cast and crew. I hope you enjoyed it. If so drop us a line you can email us at full cast and crew pod at gmail.com or find us on twitter at at full cast and crew or on instagram foale cast and crew or of course find the podcast on facebook and if you really really enjoyed it take a screen shot of your favorite episode on your podcast player and forty to a friend so so they can subscribe and figure out what you're always laughing about and if you didn't enjoy it i dunno drop his line anyway. I can take it.

nathan gabriel byrne director nathan lane Martin chris new york lee wilco Director cincinnati chris chicago loudon wainwright assistant director stephen sondheim howard ashman lester lester connie grappo boyd gaines maury maury laurie metcalf
Episode 15: The "We Drag Aladdin the Broadway Musical for Filth and other Disney News!" Episode

Never Growing Up - The Disney Parks Podcast for Adults

52:15 min | 1 year ago

Episode 15: The "We Drag Aladdin the Broadway Musical for Filth and other Disney News!" Episode

"Welcome back. Everybody to episode fifteen of never growing up a Disney parks podcast for adults today. We're gonna talk about the new Aladdin an end game trailers the mermaid school and captain hook pirates crew coming to select resorts, the new crepe ary coming to France pavilion in the tough knows terrorists coming the Riviera. Stay tuned. I'm gonna drag the Aladdin musical for fell fellow. Oh, yeah. That. Hoop all over it. It's gonna be fun. Welcome back everybody. My name is Brady mccleary. Also known to you guys as Brady Cam. And with me today. I have the one the only the beautiful talented lovely all the adjectives Anne, most the prelates. Hi, hi, guys. It's Anne also known as at WD w collective on Instagram and also Twitter, and we also have a Twitter we're taking over social or or making her own social media. Empires soda. Media are bitch like going to work for us to truly. We'll get there guys. We're we're doing our best doing our best. So a lot of stuff happened this week, man. Lot of dizzy news. Yeah. Lots of news. Lots of things lots of new trailers. Sorry. I'm struggling guys Brady descent surgery guys his urgency on my foot in it's just making everything so inconvenient. So now. I should've practiced on which position could be most comfortable like earlier, but. The play dangerously holding the microphone on top of what am I found pads in just Jilin I consider getting one of those like one of the mobile microphones, and you plug into your phone because then you could do like if you're at the parks, and I'm sure I'm not saying podcasters don't know. But you have the ability to plug it in your phone, if you were at the parks, and you could handle it that way, yet Tonia I wanna get one of the ones that you can attached to the camera to in. It's got like on it. So like the boom mic see. So I can blizzard and they also have four the type of microphones that you. And I have the the yeti blue. It has it's like a stand in. It's kinda like a boom stands that you can kind of maneuver it around. Yeah. And that help was a reverberation like from the desk that it might be laying on but for now, I said it on top of a a little sound pad in which is fine. A little little handy dandy tips. If you're thinking about starting to. Yeah, we're learning as we go. Oh, yeah. Tell you that. But honestly, whatever we're doing. I think we're doing it. Right. Seem to enjoy our presence y'all think where musing I think we're musing think you're hilarious. And we all know, I think I'm hilarious. So why don't we start with the new trailers that Disney released this week because they were real real as let you headline that one as we all know, I don't watch L trailer os. And now, it's kind of like a personal thing. Like, even when I go to the. Yeah. When I go to move theater. That's what I'm like. All right. You want popcorn the trailer wrote the star. Sorry, Matt I'm off to get popcorn. That's actually one thing. I do like about going to. I'd love the trailers. I hate that. There's commercials. I hate that. Drives me crazy. Oh, yeah. The sound vision or whatever before random products like Pepsi, or would I get it like they want you to go out there and go buy some pop-. And yes, I said pop 'cause I'm from Ohio and. Got enter the Fung salon. Play that once we're done recording. While I go back to work. So let's talk let's start with the Latin. So this is a big deal. This this new trailer that this new full fischel trailer that came out about Aladdin because I think it's it marked turning point for people who are really very very hesitant about this particular live action. Disney movie, I did hear the song clips from it. Or as a whole new world is because that's they finally gave us a tidbit on that. And I will say I like how it sounds. I actually more than the musical, which we'll talk about later it sounded so much like original in leg. So it had all the fields of of childhood, you know, in your memory growing up that I don't know. But I only heard it just that little tidbit than a scrolled along the trailer was much. I would say grander. They're really focusing on kind of the entirety of the movie think people were starting to get a little too focused on the whole Smith genie thing. I think he looks great. I his portion of the trailer is great. I loved it that they showed the friend like me portion because it didn't sound anything like Robin Williams river because I think everyone's kind of concerned that he's gonna try and do some kind of version of Robin Williams Jeanie, and that proved to me that this sounds like it's going to be different. And I'm really glad to hear that. And he also know if you saw this on Instagram Wilson, I guess up when did a drawing of your geniune, Robin, Robin Williams Jeanie, and it was just this really nice tribute. He wrote to Robin Williams about not being able to fill his shoes. It was really sweet. I thought I love that was very it was it was perfect. It was very nicely. Put and you know, again, this the Aladdin in our musical conversation have later on is going to intertwine a lot. But it got me thinking, and I guess we talk about more later. Why is everybody so up in arms about Will Smith being genie because oh could never be the genie? But the musical has been out since two thousand fourteen nobody said shit about that like the obviously it wasn't Robin Williams. Good point Brady looks you like coming like a serious, full circle. You're right. Yeah. I don't think I'm just trying to remember way. So it came out. So for those of you. We'll talk about this later on in the show, but the Aladdin musical came out in twenty eleven but there. Yeah. There really wasn't. At least I don't remember. And I remember when this came out because I was just annoyed that this came out over Hunchback. But here that's go back to our episode about The Hunchback musical to your arguments on that one. But I just thought it, and if you see what's the guy's name, and I'm like, I have to look at my notes now 'cause I forget, but J O James Monroe angle heart who who was the original genie on Broadway. He's a very he was very very different. He really portrayed genie differently than than Robin Williams. Just just remembering from that. So. Yeah, that's a super good point. Am there has been multi you since since Robin Williams, and I get it. He's the greatest in the original in the best. Yeah. Over here. Why is everybody giving Will Smith such a hard time? All of a sudden when there has been multiple genie's. Yeah. Because Will Smith is just a really big. Star. Yeah. They're just getting the big first himself. Yeah. That's a really good point is a really big personality. So, but that was the first because I've always been super hesitant at the whole thing about the whole the whole movie. But this was the first trailer that got me excited. So I think the internet itself overall agrees with that statement some excited it'd be fun. I'm really hoping they don't add some of again, guys. We'll talk about this later on. But I really hoping that they don't add a lot of the songs that they added for the musical except for one. And we'll talk about that during the during our little recap. We'll then let's move onto endgame game. So don't keep spilling all our T for. I know I started it. Like brain blast wire we hate in. So this is a vendor's Infinity wars, this is the sequel to anywhere for those of you. I think he would be living under a rock. If you didn't know what endgame was, but it's the sequel to vendors inventing work. So it takes is. So I noticed too is that it actually takes place. There's quite a bit of time from when this from when Infinity war happened. The Thanos is snap stabbing. My fingers for some reason, I think frigging fan of here, and and when this movie occurs so just to be like a significant amount of time that's gone between. I when they released the release the new trailer this week they also released a new poster. And I tweeted about this and also posted on Instagram. Why captain America is seemed is seeming the central of the entire poster like I feel like that's foreboding in some way. And it makes me concerned is done. Chris Evans is done playing captain America. He has said, so I don't know if this means on going die or. Or I'm concerned. Yeah. I have no clue. Matt Matt said he commented on that tweet. Yeah. Yeah. He did. He did. I think you said he was gonna eat. He was going to die. Party pooper house like Juan. But no super excited, and the other thing is I haven't seen captain marvel yet you're going today. No, I've seen it. Oh, that's right. Yes. You did. Next. Next friday. I have a date with Matt we're gonna go see she's AM a weaker is oh weaker early. Yes, accurately what? But yes, marble, the fact that you haven't seen it yet. Blows my mind. Get words. Yeah. You have it locked you had a lot going on. I guess I'll give that a pass. It was so good like I like the super meter movies. I'd love you. We all know love strong female lead. I was very reserved at first. Now, we're talking about captain marvel in be about engage, but anyways. My question. This is like do I need to see captain marvel before I see endgame because endgame comes out at the end of April. I believe. See your intimate. So I'm like, I'm not going to go see. The sea captain Marvel's Suzy. Can I don't think you need to? But I think what was really great about. This one is not only was it kind of like an origin story for captain marvel. You also see a whole lot of fury in it too. And it's almost like an origin story for him Indo. I thought it was so much fun. Like, it's super empowering take your nieces, take your daughters. Take your mom's like, it is like your sisters your cousins, take everybody. Go. See I thought it was just so good in everybody on my Facebook. You said it was met is an aside mystic pig in. They can suck. My butthole. I was like, oh, this is some fighting words. Literally who were like that until you're movie could have just been in the end credits of another movie. Like, it's basically just saying that he's gonna be endgame. And I'm like, yeah. She is in how come she doesn't get an origin story at people are people need to sit down sit down. Sit back your seats sedan seen. It was so good. It gave me life. I absolutely loved it in. I can't wait until you see it. So I don't spoil anything. So I'm gonna stop their nets. And I I just I don't know if I'm going to have a weekend free to go. See it like literally in the foreseeable future has this weekend. I have friends in other city in the following weekend. We're having my some I think I think the following weekend. We're having my birthday dinner with my family than the following weekend dance after after dinner with your family, you're gonna go see it with your family that sounds that sounds like no seventy you're ill. And you can't go to work one day. I'm sick. I'm sick. Thanks, karen. But I I'm a big mean girls fan, don't don't she work. I'm also an embarrassingly a huge fan of mean girls musical which I'm so again touched about that. And I was embarrassing because I'm so against Broadway. Mccain so many of these movies are making moves into musicals. And it just drives you nuts. But the music is just so fun and catchy. And they're such a Bob. Bob spoil that good. It helps that Tina Fey. Yeah. So closely on the musical surprise. Yeah. All the music composer. Yeah. So he did all the music for it. And so I felt like that gave it some credibility. But by don't f this upper were divorcing like this. I this is my legacy that is so true. So I'm excited. I can't wait. I can't wait for endgame. I think I've been reading of the articles because I I'll go like full nerd, and like read all the articles that are trying to interpret there's a whole thing about why are they only showing the color red? And like it has to do with something of one of the stones the reality stone Thanasis, you know, in the in the thing on his hand whenever the hell that makes him snap. I can I think of it. No, no what I'm talking about still. I've just been going like really deep into that some snap. You know, whatever it's called is his magic love. I don't know. This is bears because I really do. Did you see we probably shouldn't talk about Lee? Liz a pleasant pleasant as we don't need to talk about leaving them. I didn't see it. So next. Okay. In game. See it. I can't wait. It's gonna be great. Let's talk about the mermaid school in captain hook pirates crew coming to select resorts, I'm assuming this is kind of like the jet kademi kinda thing. Yeah. But but at at select resort so for mermaids school, it's going to be at the art of animation, criven beach, and yachting beach, and I love that they're doing this at each level of of Disney resort rate. So we got the value of admission the moderate Caribbean beach, and then yawn beaches, which isn't real the art of animation is considered a value. But it is not. Christ. I would say it's really priced more like a moderate like whenever. If I were to want to go to Disney has in. I was like, oh, Art Van nation or Caribbean beach. It's like a twenty dollar difference. I'm going to care being beach. Like, yeah. Yeah. Doesn't I don't I it's kind of a big jump. But anyway, we digress. But yes, so it's it's a fun little activity for I think they're really trying to broaden the activities at at the resorts. And I've talked about this too as well. My husband, and I don't actually spend a lot of time at the parks. We spend most of our time at the resorts. So I'm glad to hear not that. I don't think I can make. Can't get my rain school. It only said on just new parks. Bog it said that it was for ages four plus and so considering I will be thirty six and. Does that count? You can divide thirty six by or. Yeah. I mean, but you get the the the children are fed with tail seek at your own tail. I'm very very sketch about those tales does middle remain tales. Right. Yeah. They they kinda give me the heaves like if you aren't as strong swimmer like that your base gas into drown it really they really scare me. We're not like I'm not trying to pass judgment on parents. But like, I guess maybe I think I'm Diese summer. But I know if I put something like that on me, it would really like I feel like I would be very unbalanced. So I don't I it just in. They always have it at the pull that I belong to like they like kids bring them in pain. Like, so get your tail you get your tail and you learn how to do different like swimming exercises. You could just went through hoops, you learn all these little mermaid little tricks. So it's fifty dollars a four the hour. So it's only an hour long. And it's starting I believe at the end of March early April. But it sounds like it sounds like a hoot. Actually, I think fifty dollars for an hour of that. I don't know. Like, I think a good fifteen to twenty minutes would be spent trying to put the damn tale. Shrew, but you good to keep the to do. I don't know. It didn't say I L B grows would be gross. But also like fifty dollars for an hour. That's it. It's a memory like don't you rove for like the jet? I thing. No, you don't get to keep the room. What's I don't think? Sweaty nasty dirty. Little children are sharing. I will not be letting my nephew do that firmness. Because both of my nephews are big big fans of the Jedi academy. And so I will have to I don't think they do. I feel like I would have seen my nephews put that on and run around the house with their lightsabres. And I don't think I've ever seen that. The other half of this is the captain hook pirates crew, and this is just at yacht beach. So this is for ages four to twelve and it is a scavenger hunt type excursion, you even we'll get to go on like pontoon boats and around and try to look for some of the treasure the clues that are put forth were you? And it also includes a lunch. So this one is fifty five dollars a child and this begins at the end of April, April twenty eighth. So I feel this when Adderley sounds like a more of a deal than the mermaid school. Yeah. We gotta figure out what did. Listen like, I mean, you get lunch. The other for the mermaid one we need to figure that out. Like if there's anything additional. Yeah. This was according to Disney parks blog. So at the no this is what they tell us. But it looks cool. I mean, they're starting to do so many more like I said a lot of more activities at the pool. There's a couple more activities that they talked about their bring to the resorts on the we'll talk about probably next week when we have a special gas, which is exciting goes good. You ready for it receiver Syria cited about it. But we will probably talk about that. Because it's actually it's what of our Hoosier Bijur things that we talk about. And I've never taken advantage of, but they're bringing Cabanas tell Yang beach, but I won't talk about it anymore. But I'm excited about it. Speaking of Disney they replied to my tweet twice. Well this world today. I posted the video of my swarovski crystal. Man that I made and they they commented a gift of the alliens from Toy Story going. Fancy I live Opie. Six the diamonds in his eyes in face of his. Yeah. So I don't know I might make more let me know if you guys are when custom made wristband on you one nine for free though. So vying prints. Those are some swarovski crystals. Hand place. So. Or was on your actual post is on my actual Twitter on your Twitter. I did it on my story to it's still there. You didn't go to my story on on. L instagram. Oh in find it there too. Spanish for Instagram. They. So yeah, there's some really cool things that they're bringing to the resorts themselves. But also there's gonna be some new restaurants coming to I'm really excited because of all places, you would think. Okay. So let me backtrack a little bit. They're bringing a crepe ry to the France pavilion. Yes. You would think that there have already been a place to get crepes? There is is there. It's a little girl. Okay. Well, f- me, I'm like crepe because I just wanna try one and be really cool, and I've never had one never had a crepe. So it's never had a macaroni. We've discussed this that shocks me. Because. I should eat all the desserts. Now, it sucks because they're delicious. It's Choksi because you're morbidly obese you literally everything. Out of here. No because it's so good. They so good. And they have one right now. I mean, they always have them in the I think it's in the patisserie. If you know where the if you go into the French refrains pavilion, and you go where like the main gift shop is and there's like the patisserie right there. And then all the way in the back right back. Yeah. Not know that existed instills, I went with my mom, obviously, I've seen like the front side of the gift shop, but I guess it's always been so busy in there that I never wanted to go dip back further where all those teast you. It'll treats are really cute fund. Delicious little treats. Oh, yeah. And I mean, I've never gotten anything from there. Because as we know I don't like lines or waiting for things. Since I've never gotten anything there. But there is a little kiosk like along the path there as you're going pass lake chef shift FRANZ there is a little a little crepe stand. But it's not like as expansive as what this. This is going to be a full like sort of more sort of like leaning towards the quick service type of restaurant, but it's it's gonna be a crepe real the same. But it's going to be much larger and has a more robust menu than what the what the kiosk has to. I think that's a seat. Is it the same kiosk where you can get? The grandmother knees lush, I'm not sure it's one of those kiosks I can't be 'cause I gone to that. Like a thousand trillion times every it gets a separate one. There might be one right next to it. But I typically don't focus on the food while I'm there, I go to Japan in e of get like the little Macci macho moti like ice cream. Then for the rest of it. I'm just drinking. Margaritas and the. Violet sake. Yes. Oh my God. I was so excited. I was watching Kyle Palo who's a dizzy logger. And he was getting he's doing really interesting drinks around the world. But it was like world showcase all day. They kept just going back and forth. Doing your show the world all day throughout joke as like all along, and they did get violent sake. And I was like, yeah. As live. It's so good. But they said it's stains their teeth purple. And I was like I don't think I ever happen to me. But but did it ever seen your teeth? I don't think it did. I spend a lot of time brushing my teeth in making sure they're as Hoyt as they are like right after you drink it like, it's not like red wine. No, it never seen my teeth. I have had that problem you have sensitive teeth. But anyway, so. I'm all like, don't talk about my pilots. So for those of you who don't wanna cry. I think most people know crepe is. But for those of you who don't crepe is for lack of a better term. It's like, a French pancake, very, very thin, and very very light has a different gradients. I forget there's one it's like these baking soda instead of something else that that makes it lighter. But anyways, they're difficult to make because he had to I've made them once. And actually they came up perfect which was very proud of. But. My husband hate scripts. So because they have kind of a weird texture where he's coming from on that. And I don't like sweet crepes myself because a lot of times there's either sweet or their savory crepes. Right. And so most of the time you get them as dessert, but you can get savory wants to which are called Gullit's. All. I like the savory ones better than the sweet ones, but it's supposed to be. It's going to it's made by the same people who are people who are behind Schefter FRANZ and miss your Paul. So you know, it's going to be good, and it's going to be right next to the new ready to you ride. And it's going to focus on food from the Britney location in France, which makes me excited. It's not as well. I thought you were gonna say Britney Spears. Derailed? I know I feel like. I love when people call her Bernie on she's towards me. But I'm excited. I think it'll be cool. I think they need another. They don't have like really like a quick service area in France outside of the patisserie. I use cream shot in the artisan Diglas. Yes. That's all they got. So I would like for them to have that kind of a quick service food stop because they don't really have that there. And Mr. polish after Fred's are like role fancy. So it's almost like it's almost so fancy. That's not something. I wanna do Epcot. Like, I don't know. I feel I need to be dressed up like a nice place. Like, I feel like it's weird. Like you go in somewhere like super nice there. You know, like go there or go to the park. Go back to your hotel change, go back and being see in do that. But then you're just like with people who are like sweating like suntan asshole. Like, it's it's just not the crowd. I wanna be within like a nice French restaurant. But here we are. Man. I have been a weird. And there's one restaurant coming and it's coming to the new Riviera resort of so excited. Are that's opening this month? It's opening in in the fall of twenty nineteen so have assuming it's going to be. I bet you it's going to be around the time for. Galaxies. And you can book rooms, I believe I thought I saw that. That's probably what I was thinking about yet, you can book rooms. You betta you'd better book. No. But yet. It's tough topa Lena's. Yeah. Totally does terrorists which Italy. They don't call him. Mickey Mouse, they call him Pollino, and they call mini topa. Lena. Oh, that's cute. Kill and I was like Mexican exit on that. In a buddy corrected me. Well, so so the river the newer, vir resort is going to be Mediterranean-based and the story behind it is it's it's I know it's inspired by waltz many trips to to the French Riviera and the Italian coast. I'm going there in the actual French Riviera I'm actually going there in July. We're going to go there. And then I'm gonna go this restaurant. Compare the such. You know, you should you should 'cause I know Disney strives to do things as authentic as they can or give that most authentic experience that they can. So I think that would be a really cool thing since you have you're going, you know, you're going to that area. I R L. I think that'd be a really cool comparison for us to give to our listeners in your years on Instagram. Like, this is what they drew their inspiration from in. Honestly, it's a miss are. Honestly, it's a hit like, you know, they did a really good job or they could go back. That's a good point. So I am sure pretty much everyone. Here knows who Lou jello is the host of WD w radio. I was listening. I mean, he's the godfather of Disney podcasting. And we talked about him when we had detoured Neverland on. And he is done some really cool segments. Like back in the day where he would bring people from the actual country friends of his and then they would go through the country's in Epcot. And then be like, this is really like my country. This is really not like this was kind of like a illustration of the password. Everybody's always I always found that like so interesting like. In in the Italy pavilion. I think the only thing there that's like really legit like something that you'd see an Italy or experience is to Gustav, which is the wine cellar. That is very typical of like any little side place. You can go and like an elementary or something like that in Italy. That's a very very true talion experience. But the rest is kind of like, very just, you know, kind of hyped up version of what you think Italy might be. So I think it would be fun to to compare the two but the wireless go with you. That's the no you're as. And I'm excited about the wireless. You know, my husband and wine people, so they're focusing specifically unwinds of southern France and coastal Italy. Which is exactly what what I'm going to be feeding my face with for. Exactly what's going to be my bloodstream. You know, what's so weird? And for any of our listeners you've ever been to Italy. And I'm sure you will are any really anywhere near because it's kind of the case anywhere. You don't get hung over because they don't have the preservatives like we do in the US in our wine. So like you drink two bottles of wine, and nothing I'm encouraging you to drink that much. But like, no cheese. And I was like because there's no preservatives in the wine. So it's just like you feel like a million dollars like you're drunk, but you feel fine. Stone drive anywhere. You know, keep it safe kids. Yeah. But I'm excited, and apparently there's going to be a roof roof top area where you're gonna be able very similarly California girl where you can watch the Epcot and and Hollywood studios nighttime shows just like you can't California grow with you know, happily ever after at magic kingdom. I am pumped. I'm pump for you. Look at that. I really want to come a really need to talk to Matt about. You're April trip in just kind of like showing up in ruining it. You will not ruin it. If I any means that's when I'll have to get that mobile microphone. So then we could record direct from Walt DisneyWorld from wall. Dizzy resort. It's so fancy. So should we get ready for Aladdin per Urano? Take my bell prep. I'll like, wait. Are you getting weight 'cause I'm gonna shit all over it? Us. No now prep is rough. Yo I've never had to experience it. But I have people who have it works gets the job gets the job done. But for those of you who have had an irritable colon for most of their lives like. I don't understand. I totally understand why my husband thinks I'm so sexy because I talk about my colon. But like. I I take me all the time. And then the waiting on you and year. Just you know, it's it's it's the most foul thing you can ever drink in your life. I'll tell you that it is foul foul you need to drink it like real fast drink like a frigging gallon of it. And then you like Piotr about for. On ours. Fantastic. All I can say is you lose some weight and methods left inside of you like once once flew away for my goal weight. Right. That's me. Okay. Guys. We're gonna talking. Wait. We weren't talking about Aladdin musical guys. So here's the thing here. I'm gonna go on a frigging tirade. 'cause like. The reason this is my opinion. And I think Brady you agree with me. I think the reason why brought Aladdin because it's a cash cow because to New York City with their family. They are not going to go take them to go. See should. I don't know. What's a big musical out there that you probably wouldn't take kids to Evans. Yeah. Good example performance book. Yeah. But gorman. You're either going to see on this is like if I strongly like ask that you guys experienced more theater than this. But like the you're going to Aladdin or you're going to Lion King or you're going to wicked. What else are the basic musicals? Did you take your family to jersey boys still there? I think jersey was one of those two. Mm anyway. Now Hamilton is an as is a great work of art. Plus, it's really hard to get. So they're not going bring my kids to Hamilton hundred percent. I mean, I don't have kids. But like, I would if I had them. I would totally bring them into Hamilton hunter percents history lesson amazing music like ask for. I love. I love Hamilton. And I love everything that led me while random ever since. So Aladdin musical came out in twenty LA. And they're using the majority of the original Alan Menken Howard, Ashman music, but with any Broadway musical any of the Disney movies that have been made into musical. They've added a significant amount of music to it. So they brought Tim rice in to help. Add these additional songs and whatnot. Because unfortunately, Howard Ashman died in nineteen ninety two. So they needed an I think Tim rice did step in like after Howard Ashman died. He stepped in like pretty much for any musical that. Allen making worked on. For. I think it was the the bobcat Omar Aladdin Cassim. A move. It. Kind of reminded me of like. Earlier musicals like by birdie, and that's interesting like just kind of the rhythm. Yeah. I could just kinda see guys and dolls happening. You know? But. Yes. And I did like that even with some of these newer songs 'cause I gotta be honest. I I had a skip through some of them because I have to. But they did do are very reminiscent. Oh, no. Oh, gosh. I I wrote a bunch of not so great things the dive into one the creative freedoms in the songs, you know, like everybody knows for exam. Perfect example whole new world, you know, I can show you the world not like in. That's what you expect. And you do when it gets doubted into something else that they're going to try to make it their own. But that doesn't mean like you have the song playing the background than you go. I can show you the world. Winded. Just add all your like that's not the song. What what melody are using to? It's such a letdown for the whole thing how especially especially that song that. Extended. They added digital versus unlike can out, and they did the same thing with yawn say try to sing Jingle Bells. But she's got to go through the entire like. Doray novosel. Tito can't thing. I so I loved I did love Adam Jacobs as Aladdin I think Adam tickets self just as theater actors is grazed at amazing voice. I think it's cool that he played. That's he played on Broadway. But then he also did that on on the national tour. So I think that's cool that he continued. My husband is calling me. Hold on thought. I heard someone knocking. Hey. Weird. Okay. I'll be up in a minute. Has been somewhat locked out. I'll be right back. Jesus. Look it was like the door from our garage into our house like it was locked. I don't know. He's so everything is awesome. The guy who played James Rowe Engelhard who played the genie. I think is the best thing about I think it's the best part of the musical. He actually won the Tony for featured actor in a musical. So he's the best part of it. All personally, you're the best part of it. All. How on abreast? There. The one thing. I don't know what you think about this. But my personal favorite song in the whole show is proud of your boy, I was hoping you would say that. Yeah. And it's it's I think the one true highlight of the musical. This is a song that Howard Ashman actually row right before he died. For for the show for the movie, I should say, and they unfortunately had cutting it out. But if you watch one of the the reason time Latin came out of the volt or whatever, you know, when they sell the DVD's blue rays, and they showed the sketch animation that they did like how how was actually look in the movie, and they had Adam Jacobs sang it who's who who's the guy in the usual cast reporting, and it's just beautiful, and it was so cool to just you know, know, that this was Howard Ashman was last long ever wrote. And then also to your Adam Jacobs singing, and then he's the one obviously things that in the original cast recording. But if you if you haven't I think, it was like, the, you know, how you get special features on a Blu Ray or DVD. But I bet you could probably find it on you. I wouldn't be surprised as we could. But it's worth it's worth the watch. And the song is about Aladdin talking about his mother. He's saying he wants to kinda straighten back up and not be so much of a straighter, Shannon and do better for his mom, and it's just a beautiful song. Personally. I think. It's a nice song to sing to too. Yeah. I was I was listened to it in compared to the rest of the musical. Like, I was actually really taken by surprise like how nice it was like I thought it was at a really. Cute Knight cute, like a beautiful message to it. And I thought it was really chew it's touching. That's the word. And I'm hoping this is this is the only song that I want at it. From from the musical is. I'm hoping they do include this one back because it was especially because it was supposed to be. In the movie, and I was glad they did a song for jet like as Chasma didn't really have a solo song. So, you know, they put that million miles away and there, but we'll even there still other people. She doesn't have. Yeah. Maybe she'll she'll get her own. So because I mean, look at what they did for the live action viewing the bee's like they put they took out new. They took out some of the new songs from the musical. But then they put an even newer songs that actually were not. They're actually really good impressed by that. We didn't talk my underdogs. Like, we have not got that one. Turn time. Always next. Ways to. I going to say that. But nobody ever knows that I'm talking about you can't. Yes. That's route on me. Rudolph rejected redo. Y'all. That's I love that song that song as this. Let me it's not sad. But it's just like, you know, I never really digress for minute. I get really annoyed that people are mad that people. Find Rudolph not to be like. Like, he was really really bully. Insanitary like garment like I'm not saying I'm not gonna watch off every year. That's a real thing. Not new like my. We picked up on it as kids. Really? Well, like, these people are really. And now, suddenly they want something from him in there or you're so great. It's like. I don't watch it because people are all like. But like, it's definitely not Stephanie Robbie not like they over his people you every after like, yeah. Because they wanted to use him. Yeah. It's like that that Murdy hang out with you want them to do your math homework. Yeah. I don't get it. Get it still watching it. So they're watching guys me. I'm not gonna watch it. It's good holiday fun. I'm just saying that Dan they treated route off badly. Fall of all were cheese. People are gonna get all round up. Now, we're gonna get hate mail. Cruise news. That's all I that's all I have to say about the Aladdin musical. I am obviously you can tell I am not a fan brazen. We're not fans. I wish they would get rid of it on Broadway and put Hunchback I mean, I can't say it enough kids in Hunchback goes to Broadway. Like, I'm gonna have to hit the corners and make some money. Like, I need to see it. Go full pretty one. Yeah. I'm gonna be alright. Yep. Yep. Yep. I'll I don't know what I gotta do. But I'll get there. You get to make it to the Broadway the bra sorry struggling. Struggling. I don't know won't since we have a special. We'll just tease you. We have a special guest next week. But. We might not be able to talk about our musical next week because of that maybe the following one. We should talk about beauty because I've I've been wanting to that one. I'm I'm it's a very special place in my heart. 'cause it's my first actually I probably musical ever saw. Which show my age? You know, we can't really say anything about our special guests for next week because we want it to be a surprise. But we can tell you is. It's gonna be about Disney. Haney? That's that's totally off topic for us. It's a stretch guys. Like, you really bear with us. Yeah, we're gonna we're gonna really go beyond our needs. Initial ID shea or new do. But that's that's all we got this week, dude. Where actually today I was that's what I struggled to just now is like trying to see where we're at because that could not have been in our. Yeah. And we're doing this actually since so so I think most people know my job allows me to work from home or I'm traveling. So I can kind of pop in and out whenever we need to record. But yours does not. So your home gave us a little bit of freedom. Yeah. I'll be home for two solid. Oh for two weeks. Oh, just one. I don't go back to work until the third of April. This birthday thing to you got back. It's like, no worse. Four you at the person for you. I'm going to defend than the world. Oh my God. It's amazing. I feel so honored. Well, that's all we got guys leg. Mary, Lennox concise. Didn't digress that much. I feel like we're getting the hang of those. Well, I love digressing, that's probably my favorite. But I am I'm hurting. I'm among the Percocet to be honest. Just all like, I've been hearing everything on I've been staring at everything on my little wall. Just lounging here. I think I might forever. Always just lay down into the podcast, but I feel so lazy. Doesn't matter. You could do it. Who can't? It sounds good. That's it. We did. We'd so we did a little tests because we're since Brady's not in his usual recording spot. But it sounded it sounded perfectly normal. So we are good. You could do this laying down forever. I do this bar ain't tryin. I try. Guys ridiculous. I gotta say you better. Go in download all of our episodes rate them all leave us a resume, right? All twitter. Follow us on Instagram. Follow us individually on Instagram. You know, just do it all follow us individually on Twitter, although I will say might Twitter is not super Disney friendly. That's why I have to separate. I have a regular Twitter. My WD w collective Twitter. Then obviously, we have the at nj you pod. For this one. So I keep it. Keep it separate. You never know. Who's listening? Yeah. I should do that. Following his heart, Twitter's hard. I have not figured out like how to gain a following into winter. It's I think we're doing good on the the nj you pod. Never growing up podcast Twitter handle think we're doing good. We're having some decent growth there. But I guess my other ones they're not as strong. I gotta figure I got. I've been. The nine. Yeah. That's my own. My own Twitter. Are now is not even my old. It's still exists at AM dolls. It actually has my maiden name. That's all it is. And I have a relatively okay for personal Twitter following there. But the other ones I gotta pony up on. So follow us guys. Every time we say a lot of random ship. Have you think our podcast, I Grissom? It's we try to follow my life. Just just you wait if we were talking about Hamilton like we're in the beginning. I got a musical quote for everything. Right. That's probably my favorite part about you being. Beings that if I was in no one likes that about me. Right. You're my speech to be your best man at your wedding. I would say in the fact that she has a musical quote for everything. In fact, I don't know if you guys know this. But her vows those are all alliance from different musicals. Or something. Oh my God. No. We did the straight up. You know, OG Catholic vows like a like, a good Catholic girl. Yeah. All right, guys. We outs. Oh. Yeah. Yeah. I have to go back to work. Oh. Yeah. We make zero money from this so far, but I'm just going to quit my job for the podcast and hopes of maybe one day, we'll make dollar that's responsible. But you know. Dreams changed names. Well, I'm Brady mccleary. Also Nunes you guys as at Brady Cam on Instagram in with me. I am Anne at W W collective and together we make never going up podcasts for adults and stuff. And stuff I'm gonna add that to our tagline. See again. Down into where? Make words to this one day.

Disney Twitter Aladdin Brady Matt Matt Robin Williams mermaid school captain marvel Howard Ashman Anne Brady mccleary France pavilion Chris Evans Hamilton Robin Williams Jeanie Disney Brady Cam Will Smith Robin Williams river
Over The Moon Director Glen Keane Uncovers The Secret Sauce Of Story

The No Film School Podcast

49:08 min | 3 weeks ago

Over The Moon Director Glen Keane Uncovers The Secret Sauce Of Story

"Everyone's george delman editor in chief at no film school today on the no film school podcast. We have an interview with animator filmmaker. Glen keane glenn has been animating since nineteen seventies on countless massive feature films that you're familiar with and he has a new film. His directorial is feature directorial. Debut out on netflix. Now over the moon and a quick note about this interview. This is going to run a little bit long. But i have to set the stage because the very early part of the interview with glenn got cut off because of some technical difficulties but You'll just sheer cover quickly. What we talked about glen when we take off the interview leads in with a story about working with one of the nine over men who helped advise him in his early days at disney. And we just go from there so there isn't a whole lot at all set the stage here textually. So you're ready to go. You can feel the for lack of a better word magic when you talk to because look he was mentored by the nine old men which is something we talked about in the podcast. And i'll give you a little context if you're not unfamiliar these were the guys who were sensually. Walt disney's right hand from the very early days of disney These were the men who worked with walt disney on the animated features that defined the disney brand and legacy and they also were the core team behind disneyland and behind so much of what would become this massive media corporation that we know today glenn learned from these guys and he shares with us. Those specific lessons the came and the way he shares them. He's a great storyteller and they are really cool he brings it to life The words right down from walt disney. I don't know where else you can find information like that or stories like this. And that's why. I'm so excited for people to hear this and i absolutely enjoyed it I have more thoughts that i wanna share afterwards. Because there's so much we get into here including His winning an oscar for directing the short dear basketball with kobe bryant Working with kobe bryant his experience with that the insights getting texts from the man right before he would walk on the court. Which is even if you're not a basketball fan crazy but there's so much he has to share and i'm just before i kick get over to the actual interview. There's this idea that he touches on if you can remember what it's like what it was like when you were a kid and you believed in things. That didn't really seem possible. But you have the ability in your imagination to maybe trick yourself or just believe that you could do something kind of crazy Glenn helps find that story and and put it on screen. And he's been doing that for really long time and he's really close to that idea. Childlike wonder and imagination. And it's just well. I'll let a let them get into it. You know we were talking about. And what really struck me in particular was you're describing how you know. The influence starting out at disney and working with the nine old men and in particular the advice you got when you were doing the scene. Where bernard is sweeping in the rescuers and you a painted a picture so to speak of how the enthusiasm was transferred to you for getting into the character and kind of creating who. This person is through the animating that moment and i just i love that it stayed with me and i wanted to kind of pick up there and you'd started talking a little bit about how you you lobbied to get the assignment to animate ariel in the little mermaid and they questioned your ability to do that. I guess based on the other things done but can we pick it up right there. Basically and you can tell me a little bit about that assignment. Sure so. I haven't been doing these bigger than life kind of characters like the bear and the fox and the hound and lily giant and rattigan and i was slated to do ursula a little mermaid but there was something that happened when i i watched jodie bentsen sing part of your world and it just hit me. How believed in this desire of this character. Through jody's singing. Howard ashman allen mankins music. Something ignited in me. That i i have to do that. I have to. I have to animate area i to the directors and said look Unknown shows to do ursula. But i gotta do aerial. And ron and john ryan clements. John muscular a yeah will can you draw. Pretty girl is yes i can. I've been drawing a wife since we've been married. And she has very much of the girl next door kind of a look and so i started to design areo. I mean they. They said okay. Yeah let's give it a shot. So i started to design aerial based on my wife. Linda and this really started something for me. That has led to where i'm at today culminating really over the moon and that's animating these characters that believe the impossible is possible. I mean before. I was animating big gigantic powerful characters but in these characters that are them. Heroes heroines Even if it's the beast they they have this burning desire in them and i. I think i'm really drawn to describe that thing inside of a character. That's that they you can see it in their eyes animating. The moment of discovery in a character is really what i'm after and over the moon was the kind of the pinnacle of that with faith. Say yes so. I mean that the movie is over. The moon is beautiful. And you can sense in the as soon as you're watching you without knowing you can feel the influence of The people you've worked with and the work you've done in the past in the colors in the scale of it in the imagination it has so many of those elements and it feels like it comes from that same fabric and it. It does kind of touch on some of what you're talking about is there's a discovery along a wistfulness and also kind of reminds me of we quickly talked about passed over but i referenced peter pan and you mentioned that being one of your favorites and i think that there's something also in that right and there's i feel like there's a little bit of that sparkle in over the moon as well did it did that did. Was that also an influence on you. In this in the story when you were drawn to it initially. Yeah at the beginning of a movie. Everybody wants to know. So what. what's it gonna be like. What and no one can point to something. That's not their needs in example. Though you know won't entirely that. But i i looked at totoro as yeah and peter pan though is my favorite of any of the disney films. It's it captures this. How this flight to this fantasy world. That is actually real. I mean in. It plays in that balance which was his very much. What were i was led to that in reading audrey script matter of fact in talking with audrey the last conversation i had with her sitting on my couch in my studios three months before she passed away she was helping craft the script so that it would work with the songs because it was not written as a musical and all these songs added in but we started talking about wizard of oz in comparison to over the moon and and as i was talking about to her about phase journey. I said yo so. It's like a dream. I mean she goes there and comes back having learned something but you know it really is a dream world and an odd note. Isn't she says it really happened neverland. What about dorothy. When she goes to us. I mean that's obviously a dream. No it wasn't. Lets you really think. But dorothy winter is of course. Don't you and she leans into me. And here's this woman who's frail we their strength is going and yet there's a fire in iran is like i believe this and i realized for audrey. How important hanging onto the truth of the experience of this movie was for communicating. The message to her family this was not a theoretical. Or fanciful thing. This has deep roots. And wait to it. And i i promise We both agreed we will tell the story and keep it on a razor's edge where the audience can choose which way they wanted to go if a drill it's real. We have planted so many things in this jump to make it feel real and true but if you want to go the other way there are elements in there that could say this was a fantasy but we would not lean one way or the other. I love that so much. So well said and i just i could i. I just can textually audrey wells. Who wrote the script. She was very ill at the time. That you guys were completing. How what stage did you come into it. And how long ago had she written it. Well i started this film barely. It's through a talk that i gave at annecy. I had no idea that over the moon was going to be part of my future at that point but i gave a talk called a thinking like a child and in that talk i described everything that i love in animation assent and especially animating characters to believe the impossible possible and in. That audience was a lin chow. The head of pearl studios. Melissa cobb who was not yet but would become the head of netflix's animation and they both had audrey wells script which he had just finished in their hand and they they both looked at each other so that guy needs to direct his movie. And that's so cool me after it was it was like i was auditioning for this schoeman. I didn't nell it. And i would developing the jimmy rim my producer myself. We're developing a different feature that i would direct a net. We were well on our way to to explore. Go down that path and then this came along and a george. I don't know if i mentioned it to you. But i i really do believe that the very best things in life are gift the things that you not working towards. But when they come. You just can't miss this. This is like kobe calling. You know over the moon was the same thing. So i came into it After odd written. I did not know that she had cancer at that time but By a year later. I did know and it affected everybody on the film the importance of of this story and what was put in our hands in how how deeply we. We took that responsibility in communicating. That wonderful thing. Audrey did was crafted a movie. That was so bright so fun so joyful and yet dealt with something so difficult you keep. It's the only way. I can put it hearing you speak about it. It's like you keep the flame of these of these dreams and wishes and i love. I wanna elaborate on on the point you made about. You left it possible in over the moon to believe it either way. Even though it's clear what audrey wells thinks. And i think what you think just like with wizard of oz or peter pan eu left it to the audience and that's so important because it creates an engagement but also it allows the audience to shoes to believe that such a powerful choice to make and i personally for me. I think there was a certain age. I don't know if this was true for you to or for others. But i d. It didn't even occur to me that in wizard of oz it was dream until i reached a certain age and suddenly i saw those other clues weird. I guess maybe it is. But when i was a little kid i was like i didn't occur to me. It was like just 'cause. I think that's part of the child's mind maybe and that's part of what we're returning to. That's part of the magic of these stories. Certainly with peter pan the opening music and all. It's also my favorite disney movie. So wish we have that incompetent literally music gives you all. Yeah i just love it. I showed my own kids it recently. But it's just that the just right from the start. They're telling you like they're kind of giving you the keys to unlock it. Zoom zoom zoom zoom. A song. In your hug yet is. But i gotta i gotta say there's attached to this idea of that believing that world is real is also something that walt disney always talked about the plausible impossible. You've got to address the plausible. You've done you're asking people to commit intellectual suicide in some way and they set aside their brain and you can't do move that way. There's got to dance like in peter pan. I love it. When wendy. And john and michael they all start floating in the air and they're about to fly and then we flew there since we flew flew including bomb. They all right is a little more to it. Like it out your says all you need is faith and trust and dust and pixie dust and it's the gravity was so important to play that moment and when i was reading the script i remember the part where faith is taking off in the rocket is going up and i'm with it. I'm with it. I'm with it and i'm thinking yeah but i'm not believe that she gets to the moon. This is just like this is crazy. Twelve year olds. Then then audrey has this moment where everything fails to starts tumbling and falling back to earth is like yes thank you. But now you're gonna save. You gotta savour and that the power that you have when you create a want in the audience sudden you put you put energy. You put control in directors hands when you know what the audience is wanting now you really have the steering wheel and you can do what you want and faith or you know and peter pan you could sprinkle pixie dust. Those those moments were so important and for me when you do. When you know that now you also have responsibility not to give the audience what they expect. Because you've got that power why waste it. Like fe is in the horizon. She says she's about to take off as she singing rocket to the moon. I don't it denotes properly fit. That's fine properly. And the rockets take off. You know you want the you cannot do is have a takeoff and so just go backwards. List grind slowly forward and it was all the way through. The movie is constantly asking myself. What what does the audience expecting. And then how can i turn that around. So that's not what happened. Something else this is such. These are such invaluable pieces of storytelling wisdom. I just wanna go back to something you mentioned because when you said you mentioned like walt disney talking about the improbable and it's sort of like somehow grounded in our reality so we can take wanna go on that journey but you have to. You have to take us there through something that somewhat challenging so we can buy it so so that won't become strong enough that when you deliver. It were onboard. Something like that right. I mean there's something so powerful about that idea that if you go. Eight a. b. right directly. Then we're not going to buy or something right in the plaza. It's the plausible impossible just enough. Just give me just. Don't give you too much like when they crash lands on the moon. You're thinking wait a second. What about the oxyde. no no they. They can't breathe so you don't let them breathe at the beginning and matter of fact croak and just clutches his throat and falls. And there's like okay thank you but then these magical creatures come in and breathe what. I call animation license on them. Yeah everything is possible you can have you can have oxygen. You can have a certain amount of gravity. Whatever it is that you want. And so. I i exercise. I pulled my my animation. Licensed out constantly showing all the you know the the watching police like sorry now. Here's my license. I am pretty do this but you but you created that desire in the audience. I write because i had the desire for you to take us there because you created an obstacle. The story did then you said and i can do this. Little one little trick and that'll get you there now that you wanted enough down i love. I love that too. I haven't heard it. I haven't heard it disgust in that way. And i think it's it doesn't just apply to animation. It applies to stories in general. So this is your feature directorial debut and that's That's amazing and this is obviously a special project to be that but you have directed some animated shorts including one extremely important one more so all the time really and also now kind of tinted with a bit of tragedy but deer basketball. And i wanna talk about it. Not just as you know. I i will admit i'm a kobe. Bryant fan and admire. I loved the short but also because it feels like it connects to this idea of the dream right. I didn't make the connection until you start talking about it. But there's an aerial part of that world thing going on. How did you get the you said. The call came out of left field. Can you tell me a little bit about that project. Once again is the best things in life are gift. And i was planning on. Actually the project that was planning on again but when over the moon came in. I don't know if i'm gonna take one day that oil eating you to other things right. That's right so he's got to be something that you just can't say no to. You have to do it but there is a person we were working with up at. Google cowan duffield. Who was working with the team that we did Duet within and she contact me and said that koby had contacted them and wanted to get in touch with may. He was apparently a big animation. Fan which i had no idea So we arranged a meeting and we were in our little west. Hollywood spanish style house turned into a studio in this tiny little numb living room. That was set up. There's our story room. And toby comes up in the big limo. With the he hops out. Along with vanessa and gina in italia and they came walking up. This is a dream. I cannot believe coke and deal we each other a big hug and he steps in to the studio. And i knew that he had heard that he'd been visiting other studios big studios looking for someone to animate project for him. Yeah when he walked in he looked around in this time. It duck underneath the little feeling in our room there and he's looking around these just quiet. I'm thinking what he's thinking like this. This animation studio. I'm on the wall. It was a storyboards in. He said this is perfect. He's very kobe's very very quiet. Quiet you got lean and to this perfect this. What do you mean it. Re young real. Like like everything i wanted to be on it was. There was no big studio corporate thing. It was just a group of of us as artists. My son max. Developing his project there and jenny ram myself was very very tiny team. And so we really connected with it at that point in sat down in my back office and my wife was there and we you know we just connected with his family and him him stroke him. Sitting there stroke engine is hair. The whole time is i'm doing of the characters for them with kobe and i really connected on was some beethoven beethoven his love of beethoven. How i needed like beasts. Transformation to beethoven's ninth you talk about how you played a championship game to beethoven's fifth in his head structuring the game dramatically to that. I'd never heard that before. I never heard either of those things before. Those are amazing. How can you tell me a little bit about how you so you animated the pistes tranformation in your mind. Tell me about that. That's not amazing. Beethoven's ninth is is is a long term desire to animate that movie. Yeah it's kind of like the the mount everest of ideas. That i never feel like i'm quite ready prepared for but when beast is transforming musically. I needed something to describe this spiritual transformation taking place on the inside out. And that was everything in the fourth movement like the angels are singing in the choir beethoven. The singers were complaining that they can't saying that high in the would not change the notes do it and it was a theory. Beautiful soul stirring so animated that way. And that's how. I showed it to the directors with beethoven's ninth. Yeah and so koby. Just like what he couldn't i was saying. And that's then. He told me about how he had met with john williams. He gave john williams. A cold call wants him was asking about. How do you compose music. How do you think structurally about bringing music into what you do and into a film and storytelling because he was thinking how can i use music in structuring a game in my head and after that lunch then he started thinking about beethoven's fifth and i don't know which which came but he said that that was the structure an in his head. That's a beautiful mind that were really. Wow that's just an amazing thing and you guys connected on that. And he has this. He has the reputation for being exacting and precise and dedicated. And yet it feels like in a way the way you to connected was on something much more human and creative in spirit and You know the the desire to discover something creatively and be on the same page. I knew that i would not connect with him on basketball. Few would write is like you got the worst basketball player on earth animating. You that's good because everything you learn about basketball is going. Be through studying him and it really was at one point. I downloaded kobe. Bryant top twenty plays on youtube. And my son max and i sat there jenny rim as well my producer and toby and we said okay kobe. I can't animate you unless they know what's going on in your head. I told him about my mentors. Saying don't animate with the character doing animate with the characters thinking and did you tell them that bernard story the sweeping story. Oh i did. Yeah because it's a good one talked to all of that like yeah immediately and so damazin thing is. He's got a photographic memory. He remembered everything. And there's one and we went through each of those twenty shots and he talked about what was happening and just for example one of them was. I think there is like i dunno. Was those final chance for the lakers to win the championship and There was one point. Seven seconds left on the clock something regular. Yeah and everybody knows. The ball's coming into kobe. And it's gotta be a three pointer to point to tie three pointer to win so pushed her gonna go for the win but an incredibly difficult shot and so he's surrounded by people five players in the world blocking him darts out to the right and the ball comes in get his hand and he's moving so fast towards the sideline and shoots this ball just at zero point but i think it was point. Three seconds left and the ball leaves his hand and travels but there was such a momentum of him moving to the side the ball you track it and it goes in the air and it curves in the air because of the momentum and goes through the roof and they win and at. Kobe said you know what. I was thinking about right there. No you you know how. I learned to do that now. You said when i was a kid i would ride my bike with my friend and we would throw a rock to hit a telephone pole but the rock kept missing just gone past it until he learned to throw it ahead and then at curb and hit the pole. That's what was going on at that moment for me was just like oh man i love working with this guy so cool. Yeah he brought you inside in a way so of all the characters animated ariel the beast bernard you animated koby but this was one where you got to talk to the person about what was happening inside. That's such a unique experience you know and that was motivating it Yeah go ahead you just point out the. There's something amazing thing was because of kobe and that this year kicked off twenty twenty with the death of koby and how that was the start of this crazy year But the the connection point of faith in topi both had that believing the impossible is possible. And kobe's real strength was not as hath ability. It was it was his hunger to learn and mixed also with always believing. The impossible is possible and this is. This is exactly everything about hers. Her how intelligence she is knows science and math and physics and technology and then on the other side. There's had part of her mom that helps her see what others don't see believe what others don't believe in to animate that spark in her is that that's why this film to me. Was the pinnacle for me of my career of of animating. That very thing that makes me want to be an animator makes me want to be a director and challenge the animators to hit that to get that to do it in the designed to build it so that we're giving them the tools to animate that kind of depth in her. Is it you. You make an amazing point about kobe. Bryant that he could make the impossible seem possible and he did it it. It almost peeled away everything about athletics or sports and what greatness because it was just like i'll do the most difficult thing you can think about and i'll make it were and sometimes it won't but when it does work you'll be in awe and it connects to what you're talking about. Of course that idea of. I'm going to do a magic trick or i'm gonna show you something you didn't think could happen and it connects to you contextualized. It so well. Twenty twenty has been a very challenging year in our country and our culture and his his untimely passing was just the beginning of this really in many ways And and to have a movie and davos story right now that is about the impossible being possible or about something magical that some childlike hope. Wish being fulfilled is perfect and exciting. And i i hope. It's i hope every i hope people see it but i i think it's just a great message and to stay connected to that when it feels like things are getting. It's becoming impossible to go outside right in public but everything is more valued and maybe more More of a guest like you said. I think this like faith says i just want things to go back the way they were. And we'd you can't you can't go back. He can only go forward though. I realized in the last few weeks as i've been talking about this movie and how i'm still been hanging onto that idea. I wanted to go back and it's going through. Its believing something good is on the other side and you just lean into that. A member asking kobe of man. That moment were his last game of the year. Were sixty points and my son and i were in our local studio just screaming. Our heads off before going on the court is texting me. And i'm thinking. What are you texting before. You're supposed to select. Why am i getting a text from kobe. He's talking about what he wants animation to be and how it needs to be such an expressive art funny. He's he's already thinking abou- after the game and doing something together and so. What did you text back texting me. No world watching you play basketball after he you know he gets sixty points. I said kobe that the pressure on that last free. Throw to get your fifty nine. N you get sixty or not. And it's the last shot of your life in basketball. The pressure on that must have been incredible. This was just so typical kobean. How he said can. I was going to miss a shot. Come on now you say that acid words but now that kind of was he said. I'll tell you what. I remember about that shot. I was looking at you know the basket get ready to shoot and normally everybody is waving from the opposing team. Trying to distract you behind the basket. This he said it was a sea of glass. Everybody's phones were up. And all you see was reflected glass. And i'm thinking that would even be more pressure but to him now now he was already. It was already in through the hoop. He was living past. And i keep thinking about this Pandemic living pass living through it going through it. Having the whole world share a common pain common difficult challenge that we are all going and it goes beyond politics no matter what is we as a world have experiences together and that will come through it for artists around the world animators now the way we communicate way we use zone. I feel like every country in the world is is now part of my my team that i can call work with people so they could really change our connections in our in our workflows to put it more in in concrete terms but it could really change how we connect and how we stay connected and It's so nice to hear someone who has you know. I mean both of these stories. The the deer basketball in kobe. But also talking about over the over the moon and and there's some tragedy in there in both of them now but you you carry such hope for both and It's nice to hear a voice. Where did you get. what are you draw from. Personally i mean. I usually wrap up our my interviews on the podcast talking about advice that someone would give people starting out but i think and i and i wanna know what your advice people starting out now is but i also want to know. Where do you get this the well of of what do you drive this hope from for you lay because artists. We struggle a lot. There's so much failure you know and so much. There's so many road blocks we encounter. Where do you find that Perseverance but also positively well. When i started at disney i was twenty years old. And the one thing you got in common with everybody else is that you all feel like you're faking it for your great great. Everybody else is going to find out that you're baking it. But they're not taking it. That's really the way you see other people right. Young artists said coming from around the world. Working there i felt like no. They deserve to be your. I don't yes and you feel incredibly insecure. I think that that's a common. That is a real common. There's a great book called art and fear that i would recommend to any any creative person to get that book because it's the fear that is such an important part of keeping you. Humble and humility is comes from seeing yourself accurately and for that has really come from the field that i'm working in but the idea of ob observing life around made that i was taught by my mentors to study the life and my faith says that god has made everything perfectly. He is the ultimate animator. The one the giver of life. And i say good good gift is from above coming down from the father of heavenly lights very much learned that and i learned that how much dependent on others around me the creative ideas the opportunity to work with the nine old men. These are things didn't deserve. I say george other than that. I really truly thankful for these things. I grew in my faith as a christian very much. In jesus as the one who guides me i spend time reading scriptures. These these are the sources of light and life for me and i am so thankful that i am surrounded by people whether they believe what i believe or not is not the issue is that we are all the ones who have received something very very special so i i look at my team. That way that. I'm i'm depending on them in the gifts that they have to share with me and i will share with them. That's that's really the way. I'd i'd lean in trust in good is coming. I think it's it's a message. That's so great to hear It's an industry that makes it hard to stay connected to things like that and certainly the idea of humility It just doesn't It's so valuable and setting aside ego and and take and seeing what you get as a gift valuing it feeling fortunate to have gotten it You say you say you're undeserving. An an in a way is so many people. Can we can quickly forget or squander those moments time with a mentor or an opportunity to learn from someone. If we don't have the clarity to see it as that opportunity you know. And i think what you did do is make the best with that time you know. And and your transfer your direct line to the wisdom from walt disney or from the nine old men and you're bringing it to all of our listeners. Now so i'm really grateful for that. And i think he said the time the spin Been really nice And i. I'm really excited for people to see this movie. I think it's the perfect time for it. It's what everybody needs. Thank you george. I really appreciate your questions allowing me to share now very authentically my own perspectives on animation. Life i i just expect continued growth. Picasso said i'm when i was young i could draw and paint like rafael. Take a lifetime to learn to draw like a child. I just think it takes a lot of years to grow young. Just going to keep doing this. I mean you can hear it. I mean you're the direct debut after years of nothing but accomplishment in your field so you're breaking new ground and do something new and exciting now. Not i think that energy is. That's i think it's great for our our audience And that's exciting. So i'm going to go. I might go listen to some beethoven. Right yeah yeah listen to the fourth movement. Thanks for listening everybody. And of course thanks to glenn for coming on and doing the interview over the moon is available on net flicks You should definitely check it out You should rewatch glenn's work from little mermaid beauty and the beast to haven star trek the animated series and be aware he did some of the backgrounds I don't know if you don't want you to necessarily rewatch that one. But i i just want to add like this interview went to some really deeper places philosophically and theologically and i am not a man of faith in the traditional sense. But glenn is and i love the idea of embracing faith of any kind of all kinds and using it to guide you to something embracing something that can bring you closer to your passion your zone. You're creative space you're hopefulness for humanity. Whatever it is. It's so easy to be cynical right now and gun is not. He is hopeful and his storytelling is reflective of that and has been his whole career and it was an honor to have him on here and to hear him speak about that and to share how he stays positive and inspired and You know this industry as we all know can really grand up and make you not hopeful and make you bitter and make you angry and make you jaded. And that swirl so familiar with that and to have somebody who's been in it for so long and he doesn't have that continues to find new things popping up and new debuts after being in it for for so many years it's crazy and it's it's great and so i'm so glad we did this and Of course like great. Subscribe to the podcast. Follow us on twitter. Like our facebook page Head over to film school dot com. Read all of our other content and stay tuned for more great interviews of course on our podcast at our weekly show and thank you so much for this.

audrey wells kobe disney walt disney peter pan basketball audrey beethoven glenn george delman Glen keane kobe bryant ursula jodie bentsen Howard ashman allen mankins john ryan clements John muscular koby dorothy winter
Don Hahn

Maltin On Movies

1:03:21 hr | 1 year ago

Don Hahn

"Hi, guys, we want to. Thank our great sponsor, legion 'em. They are the first fan owned entertainment company. We love working with them. They create really incredible experiences for people if you're someone who wants to feel like you own a piece and are a piece of the industry. It's a great way to do it. They do meet ups all over the country. They have a really cool community going online. I cannot recommend them enough go legion dot com. For more information. I'm Leonard Balsam Jesse Malton. And you're listening to Maltin on movies. Our guest today is well, he's a very nice fellow. We've known him for a long time. Nice. Boy found him on the street. His name is Don Hahn, and it's tough to summarize. What Don is? But to me, Don, you are living Disney studio history. That's what you are. That's what you embody. Wow. Thanks. I I'm happy to be that there's nothing. You haven't done that you played with the remnants of the firehouse five plus two. That is not. Yeah. It's great. Well, there's always been a studio band for a long long time. But when I started I was at Trump, and so I sat in and Frank Thomas was still playing piano and Ozzie Nelson's brother Don was playing to a sax. And is that kind of thing, but it was very small collegial studio back then this is. Cool. I know. We're we're going to go through all that. I mean, your headline. Yes, is that you are the producer of beauty and the beast and The Lion King as many others, not remake live action. Whatever they are the real. He says some live action. No, I know he has partitions as well in particular. I mean, if if you grew up seeing loving, beauty and the beast, and or The Lion King, the headline attraction is this guy produced those movies. It's true. Yeah. That was the first guy on on beating the we had just finished Roger rabbit actually in London with Richard Williams, amazing animator and get this phone call saying, hey, we'd like to do beating the beast while tried it. We never quite pull it together. Couldn't do it. You wanna try? Yeah. So the number of air. Yeah. And and it was it was tough. It was a mess. We went through a lot of hoops to try to get that movie up. And if I came together, thanks to a lot of special people, and it was it has the distinction of being the first animated feature to be nominated for best picture at the academy war. Yeah. Waltz, you know, one that dos. Ker for Snow White after came out with the large Oscar statue in the seventy seven it was kind of an honorary g are great. But you're not really part of the big leagues. And I think we always felt like animation was at the kids table in the kitchen, which was not about place, really. Dwarf Academy Award would have that effect on. Yeah. So yeah, we got a real grownup nomination, which was extraordinarily because that just didn't happen. I don't think people looked at animation as part of the movie business. It was a kids medium, you know, and to be able to cut through that was pretty astounding. And then you look at animation today, which is you know, exploded, and is in every movie, including like action movies, and it's pretty astounding. Well, it's because of beauty and the beast. They created the best animated feature category. Yeah. Yeah. It's true. And there's been very few animated films that have gotten into the best picture category because of that animated film category. And. It's good. It's good that the academy's kind of recognize the animated shorts features. But it really did bust up the the categories create that new space at a credit some new music categories to because year L and make him was walking away with. My remembering correctly is that the one you showed us a work in progress. We did. Yeah. Concentre at the New York Film festival. It's right. Yeah. The New York Film festival Lincoln center, packed house talk about flop sweat. So we went out we went out on stage, and we'd never done this before. But one of the marketing guys had this idea in the in the end, it was brilliant idea because people at that time didn't know animation. And so part of the education of people around that time was to show them artworks, we show at the Whitney museum in New York. We did this kind of unfinished screening, it was terrifying. And and yet at the at the end of the very first number bell, people broke into applause like it was a live Broadway show. And then we thought okay, this is gonna be okay. And then they did for every number. They started applauding and at the end of ninety minutes. We went up to join to sit in one of the boxes on the side. And just watch the audience just thinking everybody would applaud and leave. Everybody stands up and starts applauding. And they turn to the box. And in the box is ROY Disney and Kirk wise. Gary Trousdale, the directors and me I felt like, you know, Imelda Marcos or so. If a Perron arm. I thank you. I thank you. But the reaction was you don't get into animation to have a reaction like that. You don't get an animation to tour and travel and do film festivals your nation because you're introverted and like to draw your notebook, you know, and that's what we were. So as well. And there's a lot more to discuss around that some that we want to turn the clock back a little bit maybe more than a little bit and ask you how how you got into all of this in the first place, man. Well, grew up in southern California loving Disneyland and loving the Sunday night. Disney show really I'd never really thought of working there. I thought oh, I wasn't even aware that people could work there. I went to music school. I was art minor in a music major, which in retrospect makes some sense about animation. And I got a summer job where he in the morgue, which sounds like the place where Walt Disney's frozen, but it's not. It's it's we have to have rim shots ready. We we we do you can do that in post we so I've got this job in the more. Which is in the basement of the old Incan paint building on the Disney studio. Lot in Burbank working for this really great scandal. Norwegian guy named Lee, worry Anderson. And that's where all the all the animation was stored. There were no doors on it. There was no value particularly placed on it. But you could go to the shelf and pull off a scene from a Snow White or hundred nations are jumping see when you say a scene. Just so people on E S, it'd be a sheaf of animation paper. Yes. I mean, that's backward. Animation was done with paper and pencils and twenty four frames. The seconds was about twenty four drawings per second of animation. And so if you have a scene that's on the screen for maybe five seconds, then you'd have a stack of hundred twenty-five drawings to flip through and you hold it in your left hand and take it in your right hand and flip kind of like if you've ever drawn a little sketch on the bottom of a notebook and flipped it like a little arrow going across the air and hitting your target or something it's the same thing. It's not much more. Complicated. Really with a masters of animation. They did it to a degree that no one ever expected. So that was all store down there. Millions of drawings including backgrounds from sleeping beauty. It was stored in ice cream bucket. Some of the our work and some of it was stored in. Steamy kind of was a room where the boiler and water heater was, and that's where all the really valuable ones like steamboat Willie and plane crazy were stored because nobody valued it. They just thought, you know, this is a byproduct of making these move, right? Right. And so that was my job delivering stuff. So somebody would call up and say there's this guy named Frank Thomas, and he'd like to have seen from jungle book so going to pull it off. Go up and say, hi, I'm Don here's the scene, and it would be Frank Thomas for God's sake. One of the veteran animators in greatest hitters of all time. And that's how I started to meet some of the people that were nation and a great entree that was that was just a summer job. Yeah. It's supposed to be. And I I still figure it was a paperwork mistake that I stayed all this time, but it was suppose. To be a summer job. And I stayed I stayed. I didn't go back to school at in finish my degree. Actually, clearly that's been a terrible choice. You made. I was lucky. But in the end the music in our kind of blade in my favorite 'cause I had a vocabulary to speak with and deal with artists musicians have a somewhat logical conversation with Helen Menken Hans Zimmer whoever it was. And the first guy I worked with was was kind of a circle of life story because I grew up loving jungle book and hundred one dominations those were the movies in my childhood. So when my folks went to the drive in and we were there in our pajamas in the back of the rambler station wagons, those movies, we watched. And so I get a call to go up and meet with a guy named Willie writer men who was directing and producing those movies. And actually, I went to work with him as an assistant director, and that, you know, with him admit, I got him coffee. Got him an occasional cigar for his movie hole. Worked with Lorraine who secretary, and you know, so there I am twenty one years old probably at that time in this room with this giant. I thought as a mazing guy kind of a. Oh, John Wayne of a guy and taking notes doing whatever I could help seem credible. Yeah. It was incredible. It was really lucky, and you you happen to beat. You really spent? I as I say, I often say it's not history when you're living, right? You're just showing up every day doing shop completely right? And but you actually spanned or have span now several eras. I think the it's plural. Now, isn't it dunk? It several errors at the Disney studio you came after Walter died, Walt. I didn't December of sixty five right? And of by the time you were there in the seventies of. It was taken to his son-in-law brought the late Ron Miller was running the studio. And there was a real question as to whether animation would survive at all there, it there really was a question. I think Ron Miller in Willie rather men. And and what we call the nine old men who are kind of waltz key animators wanted animation to continue. And there was a big recruiting program at the time people like Brad bird and gunning. Tim Burton and those folks came into the studio at that time to kind of replenish the ranks. They brought in women animators which was kind I at that time. So the seventies were a place where the generations were handing off from one to another. And if you look at the screen credits for films like FOX hound from that time. It's it lists you guys in their sixties guys in their twenties. And there's almost a missing generation. So that that was a huge time of transition. And as you said it was a time when people weren't quite sure animation would go on. It was. If you were let's say going out on a date, you wouldn't be caught dead at a Disney animated film, if you were kid with the family that was one thing, but it was not a mainstream movie at all. And there was no competition. There were other studios. Ralph back she at certain times and dump blue certain times. But Disney was the place in the on the on the category. They did. Yeah. They did. So real successful movie. Like, FOX and hound might have made twenty or thirty billion dollars very respectable. But not blockbuster money. And then that changed. Are we are not commercial message? The what do you consider the real turning point in that trajectory? Well, nineteen Eighty-four for me in my mind. Anyway, it would be the turning point. And that's when. Michael Eisner, Jeffrey Katzenberg, Frank wells, ridges ni kind of came into the company run Miller, exited in I think difficult kind of situation run Miller in the Walt side of the family, and ROY Disney and the ROY side of the family never completely got along. I think that would have been the dream for their fathers to have the boys kinda take over the company. But there was not a good chemistry there. So in nineteen ninety four. Stanley gold who was Disney's attorney and ROY kind of orchestrated a takeover at a buy out of the company. This is ROY Edward Disney. Roy it. Thank you. Yes. Right. Edward disney. Who is son of the co founder? Yes, Rio Disney, you'll always hear people when referring to the Roy's with an initial because otherwise we don't know who the hell is who I went to school with ROY the fourth. And so in my house, he's my ROY. Oh, yeah. That's how we differentiate. This was the crazy thing about my dad knowing Diane, Diane, Disney Miller, and then me going to school with the ROY side. I knew both sides of the family, and they didn't know each other. So when I would see my ROY his sisters. I grew up with all of them since I was really little I think Ryan started in kindergarten together and our school. Our pavilion was the ROY Disney pavilion. Of course, it was. But I would say, oh, I was just with your aunt, Diane. They didn't know who I they would either. Kind of know, but it was such a trip to to be with both sides of the same thing to know Joanna Miller one of their daughters. Same thing, I know one side and the other side, it's very strange themselves are really sweet people. They're all lovely. Was just always a little robe of some sort. And what that was. But that that was the turning point for animation. It's a studio in for a lot of things. Sure because you have some very savvy businessman coming into the company in in the form of Frank wells, and Michael Eisner, and they formed a team that was somewhat like Walton, ROY. And then the animation division was pretty much given to ROY Disney. He said, well, you guys are rejuvenating the live action division. You guys rejuvenating the parks and starting things like, you know, videotape and that kind of thing give me animating. So he and Jeffrey Katzenberg really are the two guys that I think really kicked us in the. Bottom two. Just searching for my words to be able to kind of start making these movies. And they literally started by kicking us off a lot, and that was odd because we were in the Santa mation building that was built with the profits from still I disavow doors and even said animation on the door, and you're doing what and you're moving in, but midler and Robin Williams and what's going on here. But we did it. We awful lot to a bunch of warehouses and beautiful Glendale, California. And and there we sat and we were in these warehouses. There was you know, minimal air conditioning, and there's all our furniture, and we thought holy it's sink or swim. And it doesn't look good. It really doesn't. So that was a big turning point. And it could have gone either way. Yeah. And I think, you know, chew Roy's credit in a lot of really great people. They invested time and money and animation in training and in bringing people in like Howard Ashman and Alan Menken who made this huge difference in teaching us how to make musicals and animation again. Yeah. We are using the template of the classic Broadway musical completely yet. We didn't know we would make an animated film it perfectly. Good film, like great mouse. Say yeah. And put songs in it and say that we're we're in a little public service on, but we didn't really understand the underpinnings of it, and we have made films like black cauldron, it's has a lot of good work in it. But it didn't cut through and there's a few faults with it. So incomes Howard Ashman in an Allen. But really Howard who was amazing guy and said, here's what you do. And he sat down literally sat down in front of us. When little mermaid started and said, let me tell you what to do, you know where to put the songs, it's where the characters can't help. But sing so it's the high points in their life when they're falling in love or they'd lost everything or the villains hatching his or her plot. And those are where you put the songs you don't stop the movie to sing those songs catapult you into the next act. And that was like really and the in the lead character the second song in the in the film is I want song. And I want someone really we had never heard of that. So it sounds ridiculous now, but it's different. It was a different thing different thing. And as you said based on Broadway now, so this is known anybody who wants to re up about it and several many different sources what isn't known to us. How did you advance? How did you riding along this train? It's picking up speed. How did you become an associate producer, and then ultimately producer of these films? Wow. I honestly haven't talked about this in ages. If ever I had been the production manager on great mouse detective, which was real turning point. We we love that movie and pretty Manson the director. It was an amazing guy. Still is it was one of the first movies that John muster and Ron Clements? Went onto many many Disney. Movie John running John directed on. So we had a great experience at the end of that movie is there and wells and Katzenberg were there had moved in. And there was one story idea that Steven Spielberg loved and Bob some meccas who back to the future loved and it was who framed Roger rabbit. They had no experience making live accidental combination because nobody really done it since Mary Poppins except for Pete's dragon. Right. And I had worked on peace dragon with Don bluef- Britain animation director. And so they said he need to go over and hang out at this place called Amblin. It's on the universal lot. And they're trying to work out this who framed Roger rabbit film. So, you know, little tiny Han from bellflower, California is sitting in the room with Steven Spielberg, and Richard Williams and Bob maximalist. Because I knew how to connect the dots. And at least knew the technique of making these movies. I'm an artist. But it was never a great animator. So I saw pretty early my career that I wasn't going to be Glen, Keane Andreas Asia. And so I got more into producing and production. And and it was Frank Marshall at the time that just said, well, you'll be our associate producer. I said, okay. I had to go home and kind of look that up, but that was a huge break working with those guys, and I learned so much from Mecca's, and Richard Williams and Spielberg I really oh them a lot from my career. So I moved to London had a lot of personal transitions in my life. Which is where Richard Williams was headquartered. Yeah. Richard was there? And the the Disney studio was occupied with little mermaid and Oliver and company. So we didn't want to take anything away in terms of animators or resources to do this fringe film that may or may not hit called Roger rabbit. So go to London for two years and worked with Richard which was a hoot. And I think I'm probably the only producer. I think this is true that's ever helped Richard complete a movie. He's worked on many, movies and all that stuff. But I and people really always had falling falling outs fallings out whatever that is with him. But I love the guy, and he was it still is really brilliant. He's brilliant guy up brilliant guy, and he played the cornet. Je Jess I gonna trumpeter concord jazz. He loved BIC spider Beck, and he loved all this just so on weekends. He would say on going up to the Grosvenor house with my band Dixie chicks kind of like firehouse. Six. Would you like to play drums because my drummer isn't here this. So I would go up and have a launch and sit in with dick and his band, and I think that was a real thing for us. So you know to this day, I have so much respect for him. And he made a great movie Roger avid is. It was probably the hardest thing I ever worked on. But it was really a wonderful time. If you talk to anybody that worked on it. Let me tell you an experience. I don't think I've told this story before if I have I apologize. I was I got a telephone call from an old friend publicist at Disney two weeks before that movie opened. Knowing that I was going to be reviewing on entertainment tonight and said now, this is not a Disney movie. I wanna make sure you make that clear. This is not a Walt Disney studio movie this is an Amblin production. And for anyone who doesn't know. Amblin is Steven Spielberg. Yes. Yes event that you do not know because it was the name his first successful short subjects an Amblin production in association with touchstone. Trees all routed, which was which was Walt Disney studios of brand for so-called, non Disney, non family friendly entertained. Yeah. So okay. I said, okay, fine. I'll play along. Okay. Fine the minute. The instant it became a success, which was the instant it opened and it became a smash and got on the cover of time magazine was a Disney movie. Yes. It was. And yeah, the, you know Toontown at Disneyland was Roger rabbit, but that didn't have until the movie opened lucky ups. Great. What up? I mean what a smash what a smash. Yeah. And that's you know, it's Bob cement cassette, his best fearlessly giddy into an area of of technology that he just jumped into and move. The camera did things that we never did on piece dragon or they never did. I'm Mary Poppins. It still looks good by the way. Still looks good. Still looks good. There are times you watch something and newer technology, you go. Okay. I can kind of see little things like like, fog or someone's breath. You know, I it's not as seamless as it is now. Right, but man, Roger rabbit, it still looks good. It holds up, and it's also Bob Hoskins, which is just one of the great masters ever and so friendly to the automation process. He lived in is Lynton, which was the next town over Camden town where we were and he would come and visit and in the studio became this place. Where George Lucas would come by. Visit and Jim Henson would come by and visit in because it was animation was still really new and in London. There was a commercial doing adverts for television kind of industry, but not a feature industry. So it was a novelty, and and when I look back at marvel how we got it done. But we did I think we got w because like bumble bee flight, we didn't know that we couldn't do it. And so we just did it. Yeah. That's right. And little moment. Here you got to work with stubby Kaye. Oh family is the highest of honors. I guess you walk. We'll still be K and make Westville Betty boop s- for his and halfway through production. I went over to Mel Blanc's house and melon his son knoll and recorded you symmetry Sam and Bugs Bunny and. You Wayne all wine who did the voice of Mickey Mouse at the time. So yeah, it's what you said a few minutes ago when you're doing it. It's not history when you're doing it. It's like, oh, I got to drive down to Beverly Hills house. I'm running late. But you look back and you go, holy whatever. That was Mel Blanc. Yeah. And I feel so lucky in that instant, especially holy shit. It's Mel Blanc. Thank you. We do it my friend when it's Mel Blanc. It was fully sees all people. It's. If you are someone who loves animation. If you are someone who likes Mason. There are certain names like the nine old men there certain names that they are icons legends. We don't like to use these words loosely because some people do that's these things wouldn't exist. Yes. You know, these rodent exist, and it's insane to me in the same way speaking to Floyd Norman like you. He went through different phases of Disney, and then Pixar and lots of others just like. If you're in a room with John Lasseter, Tim Burton Brad bird. You don't know. Then that these three people are going to do what they're going to do though you have no idea. You don't know when someone says do you want to produce one of these kinds of movies? Okay. You don't know that that all these years later who Willie? We're just with Willie ITO the other day, and a friend said tell them tell them what you will. He animated the one of the most famous scenes ever leading the tramp eating spaghetti. Now, this is a person where if you walked by him, you don't know that. But that that scene is imitated it's one of the most visually iconic in ever ever. He's right there and one of the most humble people you'd ever meet lovely sweets people. Exactly. So this brings so after Roger rabbit, you get your shot to be an actual producer, beauty and the beast, and we've talked about that an enormous success, and is it producer when it comes to animation. I don't have a clue. It's like the coach on a on a football team or soccer team. So you're usually the first person on and I was it was the first persona beauty and you put together the team. So originally, I pulled together directors and writers and story people and you try to get a little development group together of five or ten people couple of artists. And so I did I we pull together in a director who whose name was Richard Purdham? He was a protege of Richard Williams. The director Roger habit and his wife who's a producer and some great artists from London Michael do wit who later won an Oscar for his short and some great people to develop the show and I pulled over to London. Actually, we started developing median London with Glenn heen and Andrea stay John, Tom cdo and Mel Shaw, one of the greats visual development artists of Disney and it just crashed. It just tanked. It was it was it was beautifully done. But it was a little too. Serious a little too masterpiece theater. And it never quite connected that early version. So we made some painful changes in switched over to Kirk wise, and Gary Trousdale is directors who were Cal arts kids in kind of came in with that Brad bird timber kind of group kind of young hungry, and they were kids in their twenties. We all were and put together the crew, and they got it. And also little mermaid came out, right then and and Jeffrey Katzenberg to his credit talked Howard Ashman into doing beating the beast. This is a long story. But I'll tell it the next movie after little mermaid was supposed to be a Latin and they wrote their songs for Ladan beautiful songs. And that story crashed for some reason animation stories don't work out. Right. The first time and so hard now on her sitting there with nothing to do. And we were ready to go in. And so we had to hire a songwriter. And we knew we couldn't get Howard now because they run the Latin. So luckily for us allowed and fell apart. We were able to pull them into beauty. And the beast, and what an experience that was because the first song tape, they sit in that's back when we had cassette tapes. It was Bill and be our guest on the first tape, and you put it in and listen to it, and you just go this is operator. This is it storytelling made our job easy. I, you know, I'm just add knitting. We'd made our job easy because Howard had laid out the whole opening and you meet bell. And you meet the villain guest on his side. Kick the food and you meet bells father, you meet the provincial town, and by the end of it your setup for this movie. So that was our kind of good luck that got us into the starting gates for beating the beast. And you also did something that was I guess it was still considered unusual. You actually hired a screenwriter crazy and a woman to boot also crazy, Linda Woolverton. Yeah. And we should explain for those who don't know that in animation. Traditionally story is a pack. Work quilt process, and and and it was under waltz regime and for many years after it was done through drawings. Ooh. Does and udalls of storyboards drugs. Like a giant comic strip or comic book, and it was not written down in a script or screenplay form. Do. No it wasn't. We had there were writers like when I was working with woolly, but they were likley Clements who was a gag writer for Bing Crosby at one time. So he would gags or lines dialogue. But what Linda did an around that time? I think because of ROY Disney Jeffrey Katzenberg Peter Schneider who was there at the time. There was a focus on he kind of joining the movie business. So getting screenwriters meant we had to out of the kitchen. Yes. Out of the kitchen into the adult table was terrifying. But we had to deal with things like structure and character development in that. So Linda, again, very young at the beginning of her career came in and was a clever at the table and animation. We work like television where you have everybody around a table more. There's no ivory tower writers, they're there with you. And and and that was great and there's some easy process. There was a lot of screaming and yelling. And and you know, it in a productive way to try to say, no this idea. Well, how about that idea? Well, what if what if this teapot talks, and it can sing also? And and we gained her MRs camomile, and and we decided to change it. Because the we thought the kids couldn't pronounce camomile. I like that. It's very warm and nurturing became his his pots and Chantale. The French candelabra became the mayor and Cosworth was always Cosworth. So those kinds of characters grew out of those sessions from some really brilliant people, man. And then you just went from strength to strength. I mean, there was a period there when it was like the New York Yankees at one time just when I was a kid. It was non-stop. Yeah. That was when I was a kid. It was all the time and the premiers would happen, and we go to the L cap or they do it on the lot. You know, that was a huge part of my life growing up for those movies coming out, and then The Lion King came out and made so much money because they got Jonathan Taylor Thomas, duh. Lynch pin? Yeah. It made so much money. It turned everybody's head. It did. And turned him a little too, far perhaps. Going to business perhaps shouldn't have gotten to me, which is still lively today, by the way. The thing about linking is I couldn't get anybody to work on it. So I after being the beast everybody applauds it's great Aladdin got its act together. And so it comes out Robin Williams is huge great animation by your Goldberg, and Ron John again, directing it, and we were developing Pocahontas at the same time. And we split the crew because there was so much production happening, and there was so much hunger for animation, and there was a single videotape. This started come so home entertainment is you could take these things home, and that was a huge cash cow for the company. So we we used to do these wine and cheese things by time that we put up all the artwork for the movies. We put up our Lion King stuff, and it was a little dusty in National Geographic in a not. So that way and Pocahontas though was like Romeo and Juliet meets dances with wolves. And it's got L Megan writing the songs, and it's just a no brainer. And everybody wanted to work on polka. Linus liking on the other hand. It's an experiment. We have to break out once in a while the story is really kind of Joseph meets from the bible meets Moses meets hamlet with that great African composer Elton. John really good very. Places. So it was a head scratcher for and the end level Ambi who does the credit wilderness to be who was a refugee try of the wilderness. That's called thing that everyone does. Yes. When you hold up any animal of any kind everyone does that cry. We all do those pretty good. Thank you. Thank you. I practice liberal came from Hans Zimmer. So hulliber comes in arranges built songs ELD has this amazing gift for melody, Tim rice, tumorous originally was the first musician on the show and he wanted to bring in ABA. That would have made a very different movie made if all my God. So he had worked with on with in chess, his Broadway musical, and they're great guys and girls and seriously exchanged letters in our work and everything else we're doing album, it's not gonna work. And that's when we went out and John. Yeah. It's a hitch part of me wants to know what? I know I'm now picturing the moves what what's in my mind is mama Mia animated lions mom. You move. Very good. Actually. That's the next one. We didn't want. We don't want to want to you know. A lot of lot of perfect storm started happening on that movie. I I think because people didn't want to work on it. We got a very hungry group of animators that worked on it who maybe would not have gotten a chance had it been populated with these A-List animators 'cause it was seen as the B-movie totally. So we got Andreas deja who's brilliant James Baxter who animated Rafiki who I hired on Roger rabbit, his brilliant in a slew the animators that really contributed to that film. And we got Hans Zimmer to arrange in an amazing African way all of Elton's music, and he brought in Lebo m who was a refugee from Africa apartheid was happening at the time and level was in Los Angeles looking for work, and he was begging literally on Hollywood. And vine thinking someday, I want to go into these recording studios in do something. He's working McDonalds. He was working parking cars and Hans pulled him in and had him work on vocals and the rest is. History. He signed my debt, we I I don't know if you do the same week save all of our lanyard, everything he signed my dad's lion. King lanyard. I remember that. And we still have it. And it was one of those things home. My story is amazing because in nineteen ninety four when the film came out the vote to kill apartheid happened in April of that year, and the movie came out in July. He voted for the first time in his life. And when line can came out, and he was in tears when that happened in. Wow. Yeah. Well, and there's another one though it holds up and people are obsessed, and it's one where the stage show took on a whole other life, and will that's Julie taymor. Tom shoemaker who runs the theatrical division had worked with her at the Olympics arts festival and brought her in in. We always used to joke when we were making the movie that there'd be the liking ice show. Move. But what Julie did was say. Let's let's show you not only the character the puppet of character. But the person that's manipulating the character. And that you would buy that as an audience that you would you would take that leap of faith and say that guy with Fossa head is both Fossa and his soul almost. Yeah. Or that gazelle wheel that comes out on stage looks like a bicycle gazelles or meeting. So this is very visual form of puppet. Puppetry that was she had put together from all these influences around the world, Boone, raccoon, who and balanced, shadow puppets. And all these things, and that show is like goes and goes and goes it's running every night of the week around the world to this day. I was twelve we were in New York. We're back east visiting family, and I was twelve and we went and saw it, and you're crying and they're coming down the aisles. And that's the other thing is is this is part of what makes Disney Disney is that they did things before everybody else did things. And as much as a lot of people for whatever reason don't wanna give credit where it's due. There were so many pieces immersive theatre in that way was not what it is. Now, where people coming from the back is constant, you know, the only time I'd heard about it was my mom always talks about Ethel Merman entering from the back for gypsy. But, you know, being in the theater when you have animals coming down, the aisles things are flying it blows your mind it and the music is incredible. It is. So just even you know from a business point would do things like redo the abstract theater. Yeah. Derelict in the ceiling was open pigeons. We're flying in. So that there would be a venue you keep them though. Because for The Lion King, it might we did not know could've save you money needed me to still do. So anyway, there was kind of nice meeting of faith in the arts faith in a what was a fringe Artis like truly. Ever even somebody like Hans Zimmer he had done, you know, movies like film on the lease in backdraft and driving miss daisy. But he'd never done animation, and he ends. What an Oscar for lying king. So there's the risk is a big part of the recipe. What happened around that time, though is because of it's unprecedented. Financial success? I think the number was three hundred million. Then I think we made two four. Yeah. Wow. And that's that's twenty something years ago five years ago, it it really did. Some damage let's say to people's egos to the infrastructure to a lot of difference to relationships. Yes. And that's what you cover in your fascinating documentary, waking sleeping, beauty and waking sleeping beauty is the story of this whole period. And this transitional time at the second transitional time at Disney when the new regime had schisms, and you know, departures and disagreements and down there were talking about it. And he said only you could have gotten those interviews with everybody. I I don't know why. But that turned out to be true. Well, you know, why the players all the players would still talk to you. Yeah. And that wasn't the case with other people. And it's true. What you said about e money reveals money corrupts, in some cases. And and in this case, it was it did affect a lot of egos and a lot of partnerships. And things that you thought would be rock-solid and just weren't at the same time. Frank wells passed away in a helicopter accident. Sadly, so and all these tensions started to build up. I never thought I would tell that story. But twenty years later continues later, I thought this is a story that should be preserved. And I it started out saying I'm just going to cut together. These clips at home movies and stick it on a shelf in the archives because it's worth it. And then people like to cook who ran the studio at the time. Pure Schneider was one of my collaborators on that film, really encouraged me to pull together the whole story and gave me the the funding and the in the distribution to be able to actually make a movie out of it, which was really faith. I hadn't directed a documentary before my life, but more than anyone I felt confident because I knew the story. Yeah. And I was able to call up the people at whether it was Jeffrey or Peter Schneider or ROY Disney or reconcile animators because I wanted to tell. Well, I want to present a courtroom story and let the audience society if there were heroes and villains. There's no need for me to Vilnai's or anything because I think people in the film spoke for themselves. Yeah. And I use no narrator for that reason. I guess one of the testimony to be straight from the horse's mouth. So it was it was an experience. I'm really proud of that movie. And it's quite a story. Now, you have, but you have I think part of your nature is you have a sense of history. And especially where Disney concerned, you have a sense of history and continuity, 'cause you you've also written several books, including a compendium of the animation lectures, given in the nineteen thirties. One Walt wanted to sort of prepare his animators for the next leap forward. In terms of getting them out just being able to draw Mickey Mouse and Donald Duck out to being able to breathe life and characters the would spend more time with feature film. Yeah. I I'm crazy about untold stories. And I've the last few years I've been doing almost exclusively documentaries because of that I love giving a voice to people that don't have a voice or can't speak anymore. I love bringing people back to life again in a documentarian journalistic kind of way, and that book that use spoke of the before ever after it's called is about a guy named on Graham who ran that training program and Walt during the depression with spending a million dollars a year on training as an astronomical amount of money on training to get his artists better in in doing so he trained not only his artists, but as they left and populated the industry in ended up training, the whole animation industry house, Angeles dot Graham was instructor artists who taught at chard shin. Arbor's a smaller at school in Los Angeles run by Nobre chard and thirty years after Walt was spending all this money on training. Shimmered had some financial troubles in Walden. Ended up buying it and renaming it Cal arts education was all institute of the are. Exactly. Right. Call to Cal. Yeah. He felt like there's a Caltech for science wise Keller's for the arts, and he was right? And he was right. And so he forgot who never made it for the eighth grade. He was really into education and NFL stay me. So that's what that that stories about. And I also do in the more where I started out as a kid there were these stacks of lectures transcribed and they were sitting there on the shelf, and nobody knew about them. I just thought people need to know about these. They need to read them. There's a whole animation industry coming up into hide this kind of light under a bushel is not the right thing. And so to put it out there and share as a. I'm a historian. I'm not a academic. But to put it out. Well, you are. I'm not the way you guys are. I mean. In come on will Leonard you are the there's historians that are deeply involved into the fabric of film history. I'm not that person. But I love telling those stories that have been untold and Don Graham story about the training and Walt Disney was one of them. And you also wrote a book on creativity. Did was crazy. I, and it's it's somewhat of a memoir of of the people I've worked with because I thought so here forked with staying in Elton, John and Howard Ashman and all these actors and amazing animators people whose names, you may not know, Ken Anderson, and you know, animators like Eric Larsen, and I thought I need to tell their story because of who they were they weren't animation fans because there was no enemies when they were growing up they were artists, and they were not sand, boys. They were men, you know, Willie rather than was a pilot in the second World War, and you know, work. Kimball had a full size steam train in his backyard. These guys with larger than life interests outside of animation. And I had to write about that. How aspirin was a theatrical director when he came out of school in Indiana state. He opened his own theater in New York. You know, so he's a kid in his twenties. I'm gonna move to New York and not just work in the theater. I'll just open my own theater, and I'll put on shows like little shop of horrors, you know. So these these entrepreneurial fearless men and women of that era. I just thought you have to talk about that. And I in my experiences with them and their failures. We had the first president of circle of life that came in was I'm sorry Elton. But it really was awful. So we went back to the drawing board and said, you know, maybe our direction was wrong, but let's rewrite it and he did. And he came back with a new version that actually is in the movie, but there's a lot of failures a lot of missteps a lot of chaos that goes into making these movies. And I thought that was important to talk about. Well, I think that that's the most inspirational thing you can share with people when you share failure it inspires them. Because if you failed, but continued on in created something, then everybody, can you basically you tell people they're allowed to fail. Feel like that's not an option man you almost wanna fail although that's not true. But you you do want to allow yourself to take risks and sometimes you still pay and in the movie business that is seems like it's unusually true, especially animation. If you talk to anybody, Disney Pixar or really any studio it takes four and five times to put a movie up on its feet before it starts to feel like the movie, and there's horror stories about Toy Story or Lion King or name a title that didn't come together until its fourth or fifth ration-, but that's the strength of animation. You can interet the you wrote a book about that too. Yeah. I yes books. I don't know. Why? Thick something called very aptly titled the alchemy of animation. Yeah. Film in the modern age, and that was for students really because I found a lot of kids would come up after or their appearance and say I have a daughter that's interested in animation with son his a painter and they're in art school. What do they do? And so I thought I'm going to write a a book for fourteen year olds and executives because everybody was getting into the animation business. So every studio executive at paramount dreamers never else were bought that book because it was the primer on automation and just went into not only handwriting a nation, but computer animation stop motion animation and just here's the basics. So if you're interested in a career in it, or if you were just assigned to run intimation department studio, you can see this of get the basics 'cause I couldn't stand it, otherwise and your latest book is called yesterday's tomorrow. Disney's magical mid-century and really as as a. Boy who went to the New York world's fair twelve time in so jealous. I was so hooked on that fair. And of course, it especially the Disney attractions that I couldn't get enough of it. So that's mid century modern right there. I I'm hooked on mid century modern my wife, and I live in like, Mr. incredible house. Dear really, yeah. It's like a forties to Russell floors, and it's very century modern. And I love that kind of architecture, and I I have architecture almost as a hobby because I just love it. So this it's actually Leonard a movie a book about your in my life because I grew up in southern California. And so California was the land of sunshine and experimental architecture and architects, like Notre Schindler and Frank Lloyd Wright built houses here, and it was cheap land wealthy clients and sunshine that was an incredible story to tell and part of that story was Disney Disneyland, and and as you said. The world's fair which just in contributed to and pieces of which came back to Disneyland. So to me, it was an era when Disney was on fire. It was television happened during that era of his ABC television deal they Bill Disneyland eleven months, the publishing business music publishing star. They were publishing soundtracks to movies. Nobody ever done that before. Consumer products all those things were happening and the studio was absolutely on fire in that kind of war era, right and people were flooding into southern California. It was land of optimism young families coming in huge tracts of housing were being built moving south from the city. And that's of course, we're we're Disneyland went so I was just fascinated by that era parsley because that was my childhood and growing up, and I thought what was does these contribution to the culture of that era? Yeah. And that's what that books about the answer is huge Jewish. Yeah. I mean the way that the buildings are on the lot here. I mean, they they're distinct. They're beautiful isn't he doesn't look like any other law and Michael Eisner was an architecture buff to he was and he commissioned some pretty cool work while he was in charge. He did he was fearless about bringing in Frank Gehry and any number of architects, Robert stern to the animation building and being taking risks with animation. Yeah. The enemy. That with architecture that architecture made a statement, and it was a visual statement in it was a visual arts company. And and you know, we'll certainly did that with a new studio in Burbank when he built that was that was the last word mon- modernism. It was streamlined Modano. Yep. You know, he sailed on the Normandy a couple of years earlier. And now Snow White makes all this money. And he ends up building this amazing stylized studio and the furniture to go with it. So yeah. So I I'd love that especially the century. That's we he's a nut and has made me jealous. You went to that world's fair. I went to Seattle, and I didn't get to go to Seattle. That was great. Yeah. But that was about it. But New York was the play if you're anybody you went to the New York world's well, fortunately, I lived enough to be able to do it. Have you been to weta? Yes. Because that's the other one that we saw just went a good. Yeah. It's perfect perfect. Now, tell us about. Your documentary about Howard Ashman and how and when we might see it. Wow. Well, as I said earlier, I love giving a voice to people who may be no longer have a voice and Howard had a very powerful voice. I also knew we had a lot of footage in the archives of Howard. I had hours of tape of Howard and all this media and no-one had done a biography or a book known that a film. No one had told his story. So I knew his sister and his Sarah and his mate Billy a little bit. And I called him up and said I saw him at this conference called CTN. It happens in Burbank every year, and I don't know why. But I just said I'm gonna make a movie about Howard. It was like an impulse buy. You know, how you buy like the dumb at the checkouts. Yeah. I think I felt like I owed Howard so much in my personal career that I wouldn't be where I was without Howard. It was part of it. And I also felt it was a great story to tell. Here's a man who is from Baltimore Jewish goes to school in Indiana, gay, moose to New York has his own theater company and ends up writing some of the most iconic Disney music ever while he's dying of aids in the height of the aids crisis. That's a story. It's a story I lived through. And so I felt like I I just had to tell it, and it is one of those things you have to do. So I spent the last three years probably pulling that movie together and getting in my usual, waking sleeping beauty way. Testimony from different cats and Bergen Peter Schneider and actors worked with him, and and cutting all that together into documentary called simply Howard, and we. Premiered at last year at the Tribeca film festival, and it was a really emotionally experience because especially premiering in New York. The theater community. There turned out for it. The gay community turned out for the LGBT community, and it was very such an untold story to a degree. But a story everybody could relate to and sadly, it's a story as much about the aids crisis affecting the creative community as it is about Howard. So it got a great reception there. And it'll be out later this year, we've been working really hard with one of the major new streaming services yet to be announced, and it'll be out later this here, you can probably connect the dots on that. It'll be terrific international. Release to tell our story. How wonderful calculation? Thank you. Yeah. I have to send it to you guys. He's a he's a fascinating fellow because the name is not as well known as you'd think it would be considering how much he was a part. Of and I don't remember how old I was when I found out he'd passed away. Because it definitely was didn't know what had happened to young. I think but figuring out as I started to learn names as I started to realize that in my household. You had to know the names is that guy that girl I remember finding out that he passed away. And I was very confused by it. And then of course, being in the Disney World that we are. You don't hear his name very often, though, Ellen men can does I think really good job of bringing him up. He doesn't. We don't forget him. He doesn't it. All Ellen's a real Mench. When it comes to that. He's keeps his memory alive realizes that his career in large part is because of Howard exactly beautiful. It's beautiful. And when I interviewed him, it's many interviews or very emotional because of that. But also Howard was one of the funniest people you've ever met. So it's. Largely the films largely a celebration of Howard's life. That's bittersweet and on and that's how that's going to be gone. And hopefully, the film will be a piece of giving his story alive. But that's but that is why it's so important. These things exist is now we don't have time to go to every one of your credits. Everyone of your film. I wish we did. But there's one that makes me smile on only because I liked the movie, but because it's a nother circle of life. You got to produce the live action feature with Franken weenie. Yes with Tim Burton. Yes. With whom you started out at the studios decades earlier. Yeah. Oh, man. What a story that is. I obviously knew about Franken when he was short. It was. A live action short very experimental. But to I think to run Miller's credit in a guy named Tom Wilhite? Heiser doesn't get enough credit who doesn't get enough credit who really shepherd along films like splash and Tron and some really interesting films saw in Tim Burton a talent that no one could describe. And and still can't and gave him the chance to do. A couple of shorts too short about Vincent Price called Vincent did a shortcut Franken Winnie. And he got a limited release. And it's at there for twenty five years, and I had worked with Tim on an often just you know, followed him to some of his gallery openings when he was at MoMA in New York and said Hello. We were never close. But would like everyone we were colleagues animation. And I went to I went to in one day. I actually had two drawings. I said I held up Franken weenie, and I said Tim Burton's Franken weenie as a feature. He said, oh, that's good. And I held up in Mark Davis drawing of malevolent, and I said Walt Disney's malevolent, and he said gimme that ping trying. And I. Ended up on his wall. It was the first director really and couldn't do it because of a scheduling thing, but it was very interested in that story and that character, which you can imagine why he was cheekbones alone. Just screams him actually. Chico's in horns, that's all. He does. So the the Franklin. He's story is he he leaped out. He said, yeah. You know there. There's an idea to expand the kids I always want to do that and teams very loyal to his story ideas. So it was almost like he just dropped it yesterday and picked it up again. He's also very loyal to his collaborators. So Rick Heinrichs who doesn't get enough ink is a brilliant art director who came into Franken weenie, then start developing it visually, and that movie started coming together, a little reluctantly on the studios part. It took a long time. A decor was lowest Tim Burton and wanted to do it. But it was it was a stop motion feature. It was in black and white budget wasn't big. And I actually went out and found some financiers that would raise the money for. And I said dick, I can raise the money for this. If the student doesn't want to pay for it with the studio distributed, and then he said now you have to you that will pay for it. So it was like a, you know, forced negotiation. Somebody else will do this. If you don't into his credit he jumped in and so two, Tim. So we made it in London again in had a great time with some amazing stop motion animators, puppet makers and recreated this world from Tim's childhood. Everybody loves their dog when their kid, and this is the biggest probably love story between man and beast, you know, except for viewing the beast. Maybe I'm just just make stories like that. Yeah. I do. Yeah. And Tim's remarkable. You know, I think Tim somewhat he's very introverted in very private person. He almost plays a character when he's out in public because when he works, no one has a better work ethic than Tim. He shows up. He works hard. He really cares about the product. He surrounds himself with people who understand his style. And he can tell by the amount of work. He's turned out in his career. And the just the variety of it all that he really cares about what he does in his passionate about it. And then he was on that movie. Alison, a body was our producer on that film. I executive producer Allison's run Santa mation at Warner Brothers now. So a very gifted group of people many of which worked on nightmare before Christmas other Jim movie worked on Franken medium. Well, I'm glad for I for one. Glad you did. Thanks, and I know I'm not alone in that. You have so many irons in the fire and and. You keep surprising us with new ideas. And sometimes new ideas rooted in old, and and valid ideas. Are due for a second outing or refreshing rebooting? And and I I'm I'm just an unabashed fan. Don. Thank you. That means so much, you know, keep doing what you're doing. Because because we Disney files appreciate it. Really? Well, it's funny. I'm a fan of you know, Disney historians I'm a fan of yours, and what you guys do and just keeping the history of films alive in. So a lot of it is I like I said earlier, I don't really think of myself as a particular. I'm a film producer. Yes. And an author kind of and all those things, but I'm kind of an intuitive person. And I guess I'm a storyteller if you had to stop and say one thing love telling stories, especially stories that you haven't heard before it's a good thing to be. It's a good thing to be. And that's what's led me through my life. Isn't it? So interesting that the two extremes one is the animation and the other is the documentary. Yeah. So you really do play in these two different worlds one that is completely imagination. And you can do whatever it is you want to do and make anything happen. And the other side, you know, you're talking about the aids crisis. That's quite different is also I quite different situations. But it's it's life. It's it's life. And and I think it's it's refreshing for me to deal with documentaries because that's journalism. Yes. And I'm fascinated with that. And I'm fascinated with how you can craft a story out of journalistic facts and make it plausible. And yet make it entertaining involving for the audience, and it's. Great refreshment from having six hundred people in one hundred fifty million dollars to make an anime which is luxury and wonderful to having three people in ten dollars to make documentary. Yeah. And I love both of them equally. I really do. Are you a social media person a little bit? Yeah. Where do people follow you? Then they can add on on on Twitter. And I have I'm on Facebook just as myself everywhere Instagram, so yeah, you can speak in find me out there in the have a Don Hahn dot com website where you can find my paintings because I paint and a lot of the books and movies. I've worked on a little interesting back stories about those things. So right. Can they see him? Daddy. We're going to be able to coming up shortly coming up shortly as in imminently as in this weekend. You were kind enough to accept our vacation to be one of the authors will be signing books at moth infests. I'm so flattered. I'm so thrilled. We telling people about this makes me so. Oh, happy because not only anyone who comes to supporting authors. Which obviously vary due to our hearts, but also supporting a bookstore. Larry Edmonds is who is getting all the books for us. And Jesse runs Bischoff. And so to be able to do both of those things show. I'm really honored to do that for all those same reasons because I I live up towards Pasadena, and I will spend weekends at Romans. Was one of the great great bookstores left in America. That's right. It is. So to be able to hang out with you guys and sign a few books creek real treat kind of her mother's day. My friends there's nothing better than on mother's day. So if you haven't picked out a mother's day gift, you think of coming to Malton fests Sunday and getting a personally inscribed book for your mom. Yes. And I will write anything in my. Within the laws of this. You know? I'm glad that you Claire it's very see. That's how you know. He is a producer. He gets those videos God forbid, someone comes in Mexico. Thanks for asking me. And we will see you all next week Maltin on movies is sponsored today by legion. At the first fan owned entertainment company that got a lot of good stuff going on. And you can learn about it at legion m dot com.

Walt Disney studios ROY Disney Howard Ashman Jeffrey Katzenberg New York producer Roger rabbit London director Ron John Peter Schneider California Richard Williams Edward disney Frank wells Oscar Michael Eisner Roger Willie ITO Disney
WDW Radio # 602 - The Music of Magic Kingdom: Part 2

The WDW Radio Show - Your Walt Disney World Information Station

1:42:42 hr | 3 months ago

WDW Radio # 602 - The Music of Magic Kingdom: Part 2

"Thursday off off off off. Hello, my friend and welcome to the W W radio show your Walt Disney World Information Station. I am your host Lou mongello and this song. Show number 602 if you're once again, not only to help you have the best possible vacation experience when you go to the Disney parks, but I also want to bring you some of that Disney Magic wherever you are with the podcast my live videos on Facebook every Wednesday night blog Special Events books audio tours and more whether it's your first time visiting or you've been hundreds of times. If you're planning a vacation, we'll just loved the history details secrets and stories. There's something in the show for you because each week I'm going to take you from the parks to the screens and everything in between if your new listener. Thank you. Welcome. I sincerely appreciate you being here. Please go back and check out some where all the past episodes for interviews toptenreviews and more can subscribe to the podcast on Apple podcasts and find out everything else at wwe.com this week. We're going to continue our journey and tore through the music of Magic Kingdom in Walt Disney World will virtually wander our way through Liberty. Where to Fantasyland storybook circus and Tomorrowland will then look at music from night-time spectaculars and parades both current and extinct and along the way we'll discuss the background theme music stories creators fun facts and personal memories, and then I'll ask you to share some of your favorite memories and music as well. I know the App Store last Walt Disney World trivia question of the week and I'll pose our new challenge for your chance to win an all new Disney Prize Package, then stay tuned to the end of the show for more information updates your voicemails and more so sick back. relax, and enjoy this week's episode of the w w radio show off and off and Just can't be music. So I want to move to a place where maybe you can sing along quite often as well as you could in frontierland and it's Liberty Square where again the background music is critical in in establishing time place setting and and really storing and I think it may be even as is more so important here because of what this land represents and it's interesting because the music here is actually changed over time while many of the other lands other than maybe Tomorrowland the museum has remained pretty constant since Walt Disney World opened in 1971. It has changed a little bit here now much of it was heard dead. And performed in in colonial times and was written before and maybe even during the revolution. So it has a number of different Origins from it as well. There's a lot of Disney ballads and and folk songs and stuff here. And for for many many years up until about 2010 all of the music choice that was performed in heard throughout. The land was recorded only using instruments that were available during the colonial. So talk about the about the importance of details again, everything speaks. So they want to ensure absolute authenticity using only those instruments. It was wonderful to go and listen long you had that bit of information in your mind and you would listen and sort of stand in Liberty Square and just sort of pay attention. You could hear the violins and the fiddles and the brass instruments off. Recorders in the fights and the fluids that were prevalent during that time, but in again, I think it was about twenty ten or so the traditional music and we'll talk about some of those songs were and actually changed to more patriotic songs. I think one that maybe were an armored or familiar to contemporary guests, but I think still sort of evoke those same types of sentiments and certainly still help to establish the the same type of atmosphere that that's so important there. So they added in things like America the Beautiful that's more non-existent. When the Revolutionary War took place, right? Right. So a lot of songs that that you might not have heard that we're sort of more, you know, you you would hear Greensleeves. Yep. In these delightful Pleasant Grove's as opposed to songs that are more things you heard later on like the Battle Cry of Freedom and and the recording our Glory Hallelujah. So it's even the feel and the tempo of the music is is very very different. I did not know that that you can make changes either. Yeah. Yeah, right because it was right after I released my audio tour to Liberty Square off everything that I said was wrong, but it's interesting and you can go and you can find on life of the old and and newer ones and they were performed by you know, Brash Brands and and wind ensembles then the Eastman Wind Ensemble and it's just not Brass Company were two of the groups that performed a lot of the music and I think if you still go to Liberty Tree Tavern you can hear you can stay down here some of that music there. I know Greensleeves I believe is still performed there. How great is the pleasure of there's a few others as well. Normally would have sort of blood out into the land but not as much now and and I get it is a sort of a little bit more of an upbeat patriotic feel to the music in Liberty Square now wage, which which also makes sense, right? Because the Revolutionary time. Was full of a lot of that sense of patriotism and and energy in terms of creating this new nation. Sure sure and I for me, I'll be honest with you Liberty Square and I don't know if it's because the land is, you know, the language is smaller than the other lands. Well, it seems smaller to me. Let's put it that way and then you have that weird house in a corner there that the kind of stands on its own that I don't really, you know, obviously you hear the change in the music and and for lack of a better word. I always call it the the fight syndrome. Trying to get get you back into that that. That as you're walking and it's along with the architecture and all that. But first for me Liberty Square background music off always, I haven't dwelled into it as much as as I probably should have paid more attention to it. So I actually learned a lot through think you again. Well, did you want to learn even more you can find out more and more some of that background music on the audio tape? Of course now, I have the blessing of video snapshot in time. It is a Snapchat time, but but it's interesting to hear and to look at the music from 321 pre-2010 to what it is today. Right? So you have more of like the wind instruments that were much softer and lighter to now there's a lot more percussion and Brass. That's a little bit more down. More upbeat recessional songs, you can hear that were composed during Civil War era and things like that. How does it how does the musician Liberty Square compared with the American Adventure event or the American Pavilion as far as cuz I know there's a Fife and Drum live act over in Iraq. Is it would you call them more pre-2010? It's over in Epcot or I think it's I think it's more in alignment with what you'll here in Liberty Square now now okay. Yeah, it's funny when you said that the Fife and Drum I thought about the Fife and Drum Corps that that performs in in a near American Adventure in Epcot wage and her made me think about the Sons and Daughters of Liberty live show show performance that would take place in Liberty Square where a Fife and Drum sort of professional would come out. Would actually anoint a a boy and a girl a son and daughter of Liberty every day and you'd get a scroll and you get a coin again, like never got called off her room. I never got called. I was never a son and daughter of Liberty. It's one of the things that still caused me all these years later, but it was really neat because it was not only just a wonderful performance that was interactive and off. Not just parents with kids involved but maybe even got them interested to I think Liberty Square much like frontierland is just released with Incredible learning opportunities and jobs to give tours of magic know I used to give you know, personal guided tours and I would actually spend a lot of time in Liberty Square because a lot of people don't spend a lot of Time Square because there's so many little details that have such fascinating stories grounded in real American history will tell you I learn more about American history from researching my phone number. Audio tour then I probably learned in school sorry teachers and grammar school and high school, but it's true because it's there and it's authentic and and again everything speaks and whether it's you know, whether there's and there's there's so many things that that are sort of tucked away that are almost throwaways but have great stories. There's over by where the Long Hall of Presidents building meet up to the back of the Columbia Harbor House. There is this it looks like a brass plaque of these intertwined hands that off 99.9% of the guests might never see or if they do they walk by it, but there's a meaning to it and there's a there's an important part of American history in terms of its Origins and where it came from that ties into the story of Liberty Square. A lot of people know of the Minuteman rifles or the one if by land two if by sea, but you might not notice some of those other things And I think the music too is all part of that connective tissue of Storytelling, which is so important. And again, Liberty Square is so much more often. Then the sort of quote-unquote three main attractions that are they're certainly than just a haunted mansion. Which it is your audio tours. I have learned so much more from Disney than I ever did in high school. So yeah apologies there because I'm actually Facebook friends with some of those teachers I had but anyway, yeah your audio tour took us to a different place. We plan to Northeastern fall leaf changing tour in 2018, and I had just listened to the audio tour of Liberty Square and I was like say Andy, how far is Concord from Boston? Yeah. I'm not good at geography very far. I was like, we gotta go because saying it in the office direction of how it should be said they had a bridge up there in Concorde that matches the one at Disney or not. Really match the one in the shot heard round the world. But yeah, it was if it weren't for you. I would have never known that and would have made us go to Concord and get another history lesson. I'm I'm like look, I know I think you know as someone who was taken out of school sometimes, you know, I would miss a few days here and there to travel with my family cuz we drove everywhere, you know, there are learning opportunities and I say look Liberty Square is a great way to justify taking your your grade school out because he or she can learn a lot while they are there about American history, but look we would be remiss if we did not go over to the 800-pound, you know mansion in in the room. I am not going to I'm not going to mince words. I think Grim Grinning Ghosts may or may not be my all-time favorite theme park song. Although the theme from Mystic Manor comes in a close second. But anyway, I mean to digress digress off. It's a Buddy Baker exit NCO. Yeah song again. I don't want to steal anything from you guys. So I'm going to let you talk about haunted mansion and Grim Grinning Ghosts first and then I'll try and fill in any additional blankets. So please I you know, I thought it might not be popular because I think they're both going to say they look Grim Grinning Ghosts more than any other song and that's not my number one, but I do love it. It's my daughter's favorite favorite part theme song from any page how it sets the mood. I mean I have these recordings of outtakes that Paul frees did of different Labs the different. I love them. I mean, I love that. I love love love that and just every every part of it and it never gets old and dead. That the singing bust actually I am one of those few weirdos that loved the movie Haunted Mansion. So when they take the singing bus with them other trips to home there's this thing in the back of the car. Anyway, I love room going to goes but I I know David has a lot to say on this. So I'm going to let him go. I I don't know if off hand that much it is so obviously it is one of the classics if not V most famous eight notes eighth notes. It's simply eight notes and it's amazing what they've done with those eight notes Shabbat song. From the moment you get into the queue to the stretching rooms and start going through some of the earlier rooms until you fall backwards, which I didn't know that you fell backwards until I logged into an audio terms one day and then the tempo picks up and you've got singing the singing ghost and I look at it is is just took a masterpiece if I you know, and and like like you said to Legends Buddy Baker existential, you know, this is why they're Legends right off this type of work is why they become Legends. It's a song that transcends the the theme park. It's a song that you remember almost all the time. You know, I remember listening to a Disney CD music from the parks where they had whoever the popular artists of the day were in the Barenaked Ladies did a good job. A cover of that and was one of the greatest covers a grim grinning ghosts, or was it? I don't know how much more I could add it because from me from the original Melodies to the the arrangements and the different ways. They score it it is it is so good and it's so good. I wish I could speak more eloquently on it. But listen I can act I think it is brilliant in not just to your point Dave and its Simplicity but brilliant in its ability to tell multiple stories with it's the only song you're here to the attraction and you feel like you've heard five different pieces of music one little asterisk caveat you do hear a few notes of Here Comes the Bride and the attic scene, but necessarily count that but how the arranging Progresses from it being something very scary and dark and Eerie in the in in the library and then it gets louder and faster and Bolder as you go to the dining room and then all of a sudden it's just very sort of whimsical fanciful party like atmosphere in the graveyard scene. Just it is spectacular in in just how simple that it is. And do you know, did you know that you probably would not have had a song like this had it not been for Pirates of the Caribbean the reason why is because X had done the lyrics for pirates off and because the song was so popular and it was so closely associated with that attraction X and Baker were sort of tasked with we need that we took that again here. So Baker you do what you did over at Lincoln and Carousel of Progress Index you take with you, whatever sort of magic you did over there and you bring that to the Haunted Mansion. However, do you know that the inspiration did not necessarily come from something that was contemporary? But from William Shakespeare foolish Mortals and grim grinning ghosts are actually lines taken from st. Shakespeare. So In A Midsummer Night's Dream pop exclaims Lord. What fools these mortals be? That's my dramatic reading of a better life in Venus and Adonis Shakespeare refers to death as a grim grinning ghosts off Grim Grinning Ghosts. Earthworm. What does now mean see now you trying to set it in James Mason voice while they made them for not getting him to sing along we love to sing, but I know that yeah, it looks amazing thurl Ravenscroft spiritual the baritone for the track of you heard them in a million places from Jungle Book and Pete's Dragon The Sword in the Stone and the list goes on and on and and his quartet the Mellow man flakes off. Is Tony the Tiger right? They do my throat Ravenscroft attraction, but the Mellow men did the harmony there are new again. You've heard the Mellow men in like Japan and Jungle Book and Alice in Wonderland. And actually the Grim the the the singing costs are sort of really meant to be sort of the the Mellow man. Ace Ravenscroft is actually one of the same bust Uncle Theodore is is that broken Bus near the end and he is meant to be throw Ravenscroft off. So it's again, I I could wax poetic about the music and what it means and again how look you know, you've really made it when the Barenaked Ladies doesn't cover of but maybe that's a bit of a low life, but it is and I think it's you know, when we talk at the end cuz I want to ask you some of our favorite ones off. Grim grinning ghosts for me is really really hard to top certainly in in Magic Kingdom. Yeah, I like I said, I don't well we'll find out at the end is certainly in a top-three for me. Make sure to bring your death so If you decide to join as make final Arrangements now. We've been dying to have you so let's let's move on to Fantasyland. And again when I get listen transitions get me excited, right? They really could probably I would sort of do this the opposite way like I would like to go from Fantasyland to Liberty Square because what you're really doing is as you're walking from Fantasyland to Liberty Square, you are really going from the old world to the new you are you are crossing the vast ocean and going forward in time. And and if you really should pay close attention and again that that portal where it darkens and then lightens again as you are passing through place and time you hear those dead. Colonial era Fife and drums again going the opposite way transitioning to you know, these German folk songs, and it's it's again done. So seamlessly you don't necessarily notice and it's happening until it actually happens and one of the things I love about fan module and is it is it's such a pure Waltz and Walt Disney creation, right? I think it for life to a certain degree is very much almost the impetus for creating Disneyland and sort of grounding it in those familiar stories and then obviously translating it over to Walt Disney World, but it also is for I think if you break it down this way, it's a lot of like little mini lands in one and if you look at it that way Way not only from the architecture, but in terms of what we're talking about now in terms of the music the music changes, depending on where you are whether you're in that Bavarian Village, if you're by the carousel the Mad tea party, if you're in New Fantasyland, if you go to the Tangled restrooms, if you're in the back of your family's land and then over to storybook Circus the music there is very very different and while you don't necessarily go through any portals per se they're off there is audible transitions that take place in terms of what you hear but not necessarily about how you feel because everything is so light bulb right and Whimsical and upbeat and so I turned to you my friends to share your thoughts on Fantasy Land both bgm background music as well as attraction songs off. There you go. I'm I'm headed straight to in the traction. And yes, I have tons of admiration for grim grinning ghosts and spirits life. But if it's not my number one, it's my number to It's a small world. And when you watch the game others the Sherman Brothers story and he talks about no that's you know, it's not supposed to being just an earworm. It was a prayer for peace for the world was like oh off and I don't get sick of it. I love that song. I absolutely love that song and all the languages not my only problem with It's a small world. I hold my arm up in the air and they still have not saved by Terry, but that's okay. I'm here off. Okay, last time I was there and say goodbye Matthew whatever but no it's a small world and I cannot take enough pictures of that ride. It's been there since the beginning and it has it changed that much. So, I don't know why I'm making those taking those Hawaiian girls every time I love that song. I love the message of both versus is just it's Perfection and I love the Sherman Brothers. It is a we at least I mentioned it a couple of times. It's another Well extremely well-crafted song cord wage is it's melodically the two things just fit together as you're going from one room to another room and and it's so well done. And I I feel very you brought it up. But the first time that I think it was the first time Lou had Richard Sherman on the on the show and he talked it was talking about small world and he said that you know, we we think of it as a prayer for peace what to think what's going on in the world today and how people are mistreating each other and terrible things are happening. It's a good thing to think about the fact that it's a small world that's not kill each other, you know. It's a world of laughter a word of to you. It's a world of hopes and a word volt appears. There's so much that we that his time. We're aware It's a Small World After All song there is just one and one golden eye and a smile means friendship to everyone though the mountains / off and your emotions It's a Small World After All song when I did my sketches CD. I have small world on it and I made it of your gospels Beast because of that, you know, and I took a Twist on that, but the way that that song I know people go crazy over it and they're sick of it and blah blah blah and yada yada yada. I don't care. It's the the supply the things that we talked about with grim grinning ghosts off and its Simplicity and how well it works. You have to say the same things for small world you have to you is just as well crafted. It is not so simple but so complex on how the inner you know, the verses and the chorus overlap each other. It's it's and it is an attraction that off that I have to do every time and like you said Terry even though it never changes I have to do it every time for me. It's not there's there's other attractions of Fantasyland that for me are no more nostalgic, but the small world is definitely one of the and again, this is a like I said before this is a song On form attraction to transfer Sons the the theme parks it's as far as I'm concerned. I don't want to be Blasphemous but I would be opposed to them adding some IP like me didn't Disneyland. Oh drink of of character dolls from yeah. I don't have a problem. Yeah. Yeah, I mean according to according to Robert Sherman who's off Sherman son according to him. This is the most performed and translated piece of music in the world. And and yes, yes, ma'am. In terms of of the creation of the song itself. I would never presume to try and and Retail or convey the story that the man who wrote the song told himself back on a show a t but this idea of this like you said this song that could be easily translated and again, you know much like we talked about the similar threads between here and grim Ghost it was this simple song that was memorable and singable that was sung and presented to Walt as a ballad. He said he wanted a little bit more upbeat and cheerful. So they're able to Simply speed up the tempo sing it a little bit differently in Counterpoint and all of a sudden this Children Of The World attraction became the name of the song. I mean if it's a small she became the name of the attraction itself, which I think is just a testament to how powerful it is and again sort of transcending home in Parks into popular culture. I mean, everybody knows love it. Otherwise everybody knows it's a small world. But I mean a sudden Lion King come on when I was going to say scar is a bad guy. Let's just remember that one is a better off. Is there other music for you in in Finnegan? So as well sort of walking through so so we can sort of even I know we'll walk we'll sort of virtually walk through with you know, as we as long as we enter from where we are we have well look, I think we have to serve mention the Tangled restroom area right as as we start to move into this Medieval Fair that's going on. There's a lot of woodwind instruments. There's a lot of guitar as you start to go into this Bavarian village where you've got, you know, Peter Pan's flight instead of you know, you can see these sort of these Fair tents that are that make up the facades as well as the timber-framed outage of Pinocchio Village Haus really sort of gives you a sense that you're in this German Village and there's a lot of that Bavarian folk Style music that's there that sort of used to go off. All the way out to Snow White's Scary Adventures, but now starts to transition as you pass the Carousel and then move into New Fantasyland and then Many Adventures of Winnie the Pooh. So in this Bavarian Village area again, you've gotten that folks tile music certainly if we're going to talk about attraction themed songs, you know more Peter Pan guy, you can fly in a second star to the right just are meaningful to me for so many different ways. They ever shown is still have on my wall. The thing about why Peter Pan is the greatest character in Disney history of and the music from the film which is it is arguably still my favorite animated film is just wonderful and some of my favorite attraction music anywhere in the park. You you you take it David. I hear Ash Howard Ashman and Alan Menken knocking on the door, so I'm going to let them in a minimum wage. How old is Peter pan fry? Okay, so I think fantasy land for me outside of what we just talked about small world on the attractions for me are kind of in the same boat. I would have to say and I'm kind of scrolling through my notes here that Fantasyland is the one that land and has the most attractions that are built off of previous films right you Peter Pan from a Little Mermaid Dumbo and what I love about that issue is the scores from each of those films are interwoven with the attractions. So because and it for me, it's it's the Nostalgia. It's the I love Disney because you know growing up we didn't visit Disney a lot. Like I said our family did but we saw movies a lot and took those movies I connected with the music a lot. So we're some people were collecting storybooks, you know of the films with the real records and all that. You know, remember the old story books with the 45 or whatever. It was right? Yep. Okay. I have I have song books Illustrated sound bucks, you know, so I've I've found myself. So Fantasyland becomes one huge Nostalgia right for me, you know, whether well, I can't fit in dumbo anymore. But that's besides the point Mad T party Winnie the Pooh off all that. And of course my absolute love of Peter Pan's flight, which my wife goes. Why do we run so old and this psycho cuz it's my favorite song. Old-time movie that's why we're doing it but you're right the scores for each one of those films are classic and it just brings back some really wonderful old memories for me to be kind of immersed with each of those scores on each time. We get into those rides. That's kind of what kind of course Phil hemorrhagic is one of my favorites too because of the the later Catholics if you will, I'm not sure how we categorize those anymore now, but it's sort of its sort of like a recent best of the best. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean maybe when Howard Ashman and off and when Terry has our guests come in it could speak to that side of it. But but that's that's my overriding films and and like you said Lily and like we've said, you know over a month over the The background music just just keeps you in that mood in that zone. If you will all the time that you're in that land so okay. Okay. Well where I would I was I was going to jump right over to Bill's area there and also a well. Yes. I'm going to stay right there before before I get to Aerial. Oh gosh wait before you get to hold on wait before you get to bail cuz I'm okay just cuz you skip the Carousel and I think the carousel. Oh, yeah, so true. I think you're right Bears mentioning because again, it is a Best of the Best of the very Verge the best. Yeah shortly the carousel the prince charming reaches out real Carousel take the music is adapted an adopted to feed off. Like a carousel from you know, nineteen Seventeen when it was built and it has this it's it's sort of this client P type music off. All familiar songs When You Wish Upon a Star Alice Chim Chim Cheree So This is Love Bella not a whole new world Once Upon A Dream part of your world. I mean, there's probably six twenty-five or so songs in there. So you'll recognize baby mine and feed the birds and Someday My Prince Will Come and and more recent songs like Gaston and Prince Ali but they're in this Calliope music that you feel like has been playing in this attraction for the hundred years. It's been in existence and it's just, you know, if you you might not ride the carousel all the time whether you're an adult or if you don't have kids or if you're an adult who was a kid at heart, but if you just sort of stand there or maybe go, you know, try as I do. That pull that sword from the stone and just listen to that music. I think it's some of the most unique and beautiful music anywhere in this park or any other way. I can listen to The Loop of that music many times and nearly is completely nostalgic even though they includes the Japanese and well that's nostalgic now to write I know we all think of the nineties was like we're living in the lap of this exchange and said a lot of people. Okay. I'm Ancient of Days, you know, the Carousel music is I love walking through there is it was very strange the last time I was there cuz Just in July and I took a picture of the little stroller area which had a whole of three strollers in the entire. Oh and that was so sad. I'll be glad when it gets back to normal. Cuz that is a place that just part of the sound part of the music that you hear is the sound of children riding on that Carousel. So so move. Let's let's move from the carousel. We can move to New Fantasyland with Enchanted tales with Belle dad. I want to go straight there but I will say Mickey's philharmagic is basically the music that I'm about to cover. Okay happens all nineties. So do you think Be Our Guest restaurant. We're I'm so glad that we are now in the place where we can talk about the Ashman Menken songs, because I mean that's also fresh on my mind because of having just watched. Our two weeks ago. Everything connected to bail is very very emotional to me the music most especially that is off. My daughter Amy's that is that is her editor movie. I mean that is her favorite movie and it is movie most representative or her her now husband then boyfriend got it, right because he proposed to her in Be Our Guest restaurant and it was nice. He he nailed it. I was so so proud of him off life life. So but everything everything that Ashman and making did I mean that from Be Our Guest restaurant which Is that was one of the most awe-inspiring moments that I've had Magic Kingdom that I can remember was the first time walking in there and walking in that main room and looking up. You know, it's one of those you live, you know, Lou talks about it. I haven't had a chance to go to Disneyland, but it's walking into the movie right? It's walking into that Ballroom. Just walking into the beast's Castle. It's just it's amazing it amazing and then the score right? Go ahead. I'm excited me. No, no. No, I just it is it is the score off as much as it is anything in that whole area they're going in I'd love the music from Beauty and the Beast every single song. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Our our church small group met tonight, and I actually worked in lyrics from The Mob Song wage. Of course, she worked Disney into our small group, but it you know, yeah, I mean you'll Terry I mean, I love me some Alan Menken like, you know, just you know, Richard Sherman Alan Menken, right? You know, we're how blessed we are to have their music Define our childhoods in our you know, dealt with hood and you know for me Alan Menken not just the film's the stuff that he does Off Broadway. He does a lot of scoring which I don't know. Most people do a lot of the films he does he actually scores also, he's just an amazing package. We need to get him back on the show a little. Oh like like we we need to get back of the shop off. But yeah, what what a what a what a string of mermaid Beauty and the Beast Aladdin off Powers. I'm going to I'm going to you know, sort of skip the obvious right meaning the songs. Well, I mean for me in genitals with Belgium a Little Mermaid and you know, in terms of the iconic songs that are that the the titular and and theme song for those attractions if I watch almost were to pay attention to the area music itself and to a certain degree a little bit of the lack thereof. So again, I'm only going to reference the audio tours because they did come back out pre New Fantasyland. So this area did not exist here, but I want you to the next time you you take a look at when you're in Magic game. When you're in this area more, even if you look on on Google Maps, you'll notice that behind the Carousel and we're Pinocchio Village Haus extensions out. There is sort of the extension of the castle wall. And if you look down notice the ground the pavement changes color from that that burgundy red that fader burgundy red to Grey from the inside to the outside of the castle wall. And the reason why is because you are outside of the castle keep and if you look at The Many Adventures of Winnie the Pooh up on the top you'll see that there's an extension of those castle walls. They're making you feel as though you've left the confines of the castle keep and now you are in sort of this Fantasyland forest, and I think Disney deliberately not only toned down and turned off. On the music here, but almost has very little background music playing here because they want you to hear more about the sounds of of nature. Right? So if you go by the Beast castle for Be Our Guest you'll hear the waterfall. You'll hear the rustling stream. You'll hear birds chirping same as if you go over by mind train, especially in some of the corner areas where there's a lot of trees and Greenery you'll hear a lot of natural sounds as you go back behind Ariel's Grotto and and even over by Gaston you hear the waterfall you hear the sort of nature sounds in the distance. So there's almost less music playing to almost not Cloud the sounds of nature if that makes any sense until you start moving past Ariel's Grotto and get closer to them. Storybook circus were obviously the theme and The Whimsy of sort of turned up to eleven, but I the next time you're there I really want you to try and pay attention because there's no sort of delineate it transition anywhere unless you use the ground and the castle walls as your reference points, but once you notice wage, you can't not notice it I am going to pay attention next. I don't get out much clearly. Actually, do you can get quite a bit off? Wow. Wow, it's sometimes if you if you go over by the by Mine Train not everywhere, but different parts of it. You can actually sometimes hear the the dwarfs at work sort of picking and shoveling in the mind. Yeah. It from the queue or from from just outside now from heard that I have heard bad. See I check. My problem is I got it would not go when it's a hundred degrees out. Oh, so that's the two weeks in January that you're talking about cuz my midday I'm just like, you know drag it's not so bad in December know I love there's a couple of days in December where it's nice day works. No it is it could be snowing. I will say that the the sounds of the dwarves mining would be a more recent trip as in not as much because normally that area is filled with screaming, you know, having a great time on the Mind truck there. That's a very loud. I mean people just stay loud on it the whole time. So yeah harder to hear those. So we'll just sort of you know, obviously the Mad tea party it has music from Alice in Wonderland marked cards Becky's theme song off with their heads and laid off but if you notice, you know, not attention to, you know, it's another outdoor attraction. So the music does sort of drift and bleed a little bit depend. Link on where you're standing and and how close you are. And then as you get over into storybook Circus the music here has a very different feel right. It's it's it's part of our music. It's very light and upbeat and Whimsical and Jazzy and and you know, you all know the Circus theme song like you don't know what it's called, but you just know that and I'm not going to sing it cuz I almost just sang it as well as Longs from Dumbo, but then even here right like much of the rest of Fantasyland, there's different types and genres and themes of music because as you move away from Dumbo and closer to the train station, the music changed the changes their home and there is music that's themed from you know, I've been working on the railroad to Casey Junior to Casey Jones in little too so you can get all this song Circus parade and humble music and then you walk five feet away and all of a sudden you're hearing the railroad theme music but they just blend and transition. So very seamlessly there isn't off. There is an art and Artistry to the crafting of the audio and the park and it's brilliantly brilliantly done. I was just going to yeah, just Ram home when your point yeah wage. The blending is the Artistry of it all, you know, cuz you said it's like five feet and it's a whole different whole different feel and it's it's either levels and and orchestration instrumentation is it's it's it's really pure genius how this stuff is done and that noticed enough. Yeah, I wonder about the people that have that job cuz I've well a thousand. Oh, I would love to be in there half the time. I would love to be in the room where some of this stuff is like, you know, that's how they do it. You know, I mean not not knob. Much Magic Kingdom, but in the future, you know, the other Parks the people that get to find that music and don't even get me started on Tokyo DisneySea cuz we'll be here. I don't even know but and I just want to I want to just quickly go back to just just tying Fantasyland up in a little bit of a Volvo because we're talking about as we transition from land land the different styles and genres of music and fantasy land is sort of a microcosm of that because there are multiple Styles at play here right from that Bavarian Village German music, you know with with horns and and woods to home storybook circus and the Carousel and and the Tangled restroom area and then the outlet right right the French Countryside of Enchanted tales with Belle off. They use a wide variety of instruments and styles in. This rules are long corridors that is fantasy land and and I say that because like everything we're talking about like the next time I want the next time I go I want you to try and be hyper aware of it as you're even just walking through not from land to land but even just this single land itself. Yeah. Yes, we will do we will do that mister little wage. All right, let's we're coming full ship coming past mad tea party. And here we come tomorrow. I am running past mad tea party because I just I want to just get on the People Mover so very much. Look. I think that an argument can be made and I'm sure there are some people that feel probably Thursday. Strongly that Tomorrowland has one of the strongest overall musical presences in the Park from the background music which has gone through a number of different transitions over the years to the attraction specific music as well. I think the Tomorrowland background music which has changed with a number of times probably really three times in terms of major changes and and styles of music that the 72 around 94 loophole was very seventies. It felt very very strongly 70s. And then there was the 94 Loop today. There was a couple of other minor transactions here going from this more. I don't even know sort of how to describe the very seventies feel to a much more choice. And that's mid-90s vision of what the future would be. So there's almost less Melody here to try and give this idea that not all of the music may have come from this planet alone. But what I do like about it, and if you sort of sit there and listen, so go to Rocket our Plaza get yourself a little nosh and just took your eyes and listen because the Tomorrowland background loop. I think it almost feels like one long song because of just how long seamlessly one Blends into another almost it's hard to distinguish where one finishes and one ends, and yes, there's a little bit of Ip in their home because strange things was in Toy Story the Randy Newman song and there's an instrumental version that was added when Buzz Lightyear Space Ranger Spin came to be but just speaking. Of the the background music itself and that that sort of sci-fi five futuristic feel that it has to it off. There's something something very soothing about it, which almost sounds contradictory to this sort of futuristic but the artists whose work I only know down here is name is Dan foliart did a lot of the new Tomorrowland music which was from mm route 2003 or so until Thursday we recently and again, it's got even the the titles are sort of very futuristic. It's the moons of Saturn it which is actually actually moons of Saturn I take that back is off miracles from molecules, which is a Sherman Brothers song, which is rearranged by folliard, but there's ghosts of Venus liquid space space kitchen Dance of the molecules planetary birth. These are all new songs that follow a certain Arrangement while other songs like Great Big Beautiful Tomorrow strange things and sees the future wage as well as a song from if you had wings was rearranged the Buddy Baker song was rearranged to fit in to this same style and I think what it does to see if you really pay attention and where I said sitting at Rockefeller Plaza is a great opportunity to hear this the sounds of Tomorrowland and I don't mean the music. I mean the sounds of the page Jets and sort of that that air pressure releasing as it wasn't calm starjets as Astro Orbiter comes down the Tomorrowland Transit Authority going overhead tomorrow, sounds of the chemical type sounds over really blend into the soundtrack very, well. I have to assume yep. Was very intentional and Dan Foley Art. Whoever sort of brought it together the sounds of the land do not contradict the soundtrack from the music much like they don't in Fantasyland if that makes any sense. Yeah. works together And I still missed the ninety four ninety nine editions of the song. Those are the ones we listen to around here. But everybody's are your favorites, right the the you know, those who don't have their favorites. Yeah. I love what they have. Now. I just loved that mid-to-late nineties Groove very very much. You can buy a lot of that stuff for me Tomorrowland music has just sort of the same problem is Samara handle and is right like it becomes dated used to become dated fast. Let me say that right so in the seventies is if you wanted to use if you want to music The Sound futuristic. You used good old analog synthesizers. Was it the Moog synthesizers phone number? Yeah, yeah. No that said, you know was Mowgli certainly the most popular one. But yeah, you know the stuff like turned on Bach you you know that that sort of stuff that's so so the most the synthesizer quote unquote was the the future sounding and a lot of the music from that became synonymous with future or tomorrow LED. But but as as technology, you know develops the the since the synthesizers much like vinyl albums went to digital CDs you went from analog synthesizers to digital sound which sound different and then can be manipulated even different and I think that's where some of the you know, why things change I think that's you know, why it sounds you know, they're able to do more with it because it's more digital and it can Chrome. Sounds and all that kind of stuff versus the how the inner workings of an old analog synths used to work for me the the the music in Tomorrowland, especially the backgrounds. I mean, there's only there's only really two when we get to talk about 2 and 1/2 songs or or attraction things that really stand out for me. But tomorrow land of all the Lands still is one of these where the background music and I don't I don't really have a favorite of you know, which which a background Loop is my favorite or it all serves that purpose of I'm in Maryland. Now, it all serves that sort of perfect. So I don't have a a club winter or favorite as far as that's concerned. I just think tomorrow and always has that problem of what what that music of Tomorrow will ever sound like anticipated much like wage. Swap and attractions or or or paint, you know or how the pain is different or science or different? I think they're always going to have that sort of thing. But if they ever touched Carousel of Progress that we're going to have to help then we're going to deal so but anyways, I think tomorrow you know for for songs that are for the most part, you know, let's leave frontierland took out of of an even Main Street USA, but for for background songs, that normally are not necessarily recognizable. I think Terry to your point. I think that you are not the only person that has this Affinity towards though that that very new agey feel and sort of atmospheric sense that the nineties songs gave you off. I think a lot of people know the song behind the waterfall and and bubble Shuffle because they are familiar and we've seen them on our iPads or iPhones or MP3 players, whatever it is dead. How would you do it? And we've also heard some of these songs play other places to see you also heard some of the songs play in Epcot by wonders of life and and by Fountainview as well because they fit right thing. They fit not just in Tomorrowland, but they fit over there as well. And I think that's why so many people miss those when they switch to what the current the current background music sounds like but I also think you know, if we start to sort of not look at the the background but the attractions themselves, you know, they say, oh, well, obviously their songs from from Toy Story or you know, whatever. I think it's some of the the best music is actually in Space Mountain I think is mountain and I'm not just look if you're ever having a bad day. You just find that start tunnel music and put it on and off. All the trouble that world just fall by the wayside. But yeah, yeah. Yeah, very true. I do feel like Thursday. We we kind of got ripped the Space Mountain in Disneyland has I don't know if it's still there had that that's really really great school or by Dick Dale and I wish so much that we could get that. I tried to make it work by pushing start as soon as we would not have earbuds. Like I can do this. I'm going to make this Dick Dale work because it is exactly the length of our Space Mountain. So I thought maybe it off but it just wasn't the experience. I hoped it would be and you can and you can find a lot of the Tomorrowland area music on home. Put a lot of these things you can find a lot of these again, you know names like Bruce Mitchell David Lanz Peter Buffett Vangelis Vangelis. Yeah, Larry Fountain did both on the Valen wider. Yeah, I mean again seems right, but but but they can they can be found dead and you could hear them not just as you walk through Tomorrowland, but as you ride on the TTA, which is one of my, you know, favorite ways and places to enjoy it off but I do I think you know, if if you have to sort of sit down and and put on a background music loop from anywhere in Magic Kingdom. You know, if you if you don't want some of the the tried-and-true IP based Fantasyland songs the tomorrow and background Loop, whatever sort of. Fits for you, whether it's you know, the Moog synthesizers of that the seventies and eighties whether it's the new age of the 90s or what the the current version is with a lot of the Dan Foley our musical. They're all I think they're all really really wonder. I mean the seventies want feels like the seventies but the other two I think are really really well done it some of my favorite music my favorite background music anywhere in the Parks. Yeah. Yeah, I could see why I could see why again, it's just I mean, it's we're like broken records today. But again, it's it's The execution of what music does to a park a lan and attraction is as well done. You know again, it's just perfect long. Do we talk about attractions yet or no, man. How about it? Yeah. Well you talk about attractions before we leave your hungry. Actually. I bought the burger. Maybe they can are you talking about a good friend somebody Clips on my feet? Yeah. Yeah sing it off now planetary boogie man. You gotta have some plants very muggy, man. Yeah. Usually Sunday is such a great little Hidden Gem, isn't it? Awful? It really is I oh my God, I can't remember the gentleman's name. You've had him on I have right? Yeah, and it was really cool. Yeah he leave off. Call David back on show two thirty-eight interviewees. You tell some great stories about recording how the whole attraction came in him recording. If I'm not mistaken. He's he either co-wrote most it's funny stuff. Yeah, yeah, really really good stuff as much as I love myself since Sonny Eclipse. I have to have to page mentioned it early. If they ever messed with Carousel progress. I'm going to be out there for taking there is nothing like a great big beautiful tomorrow. I you know, give you some off, you know, this could be this could be we'll have to say this could be the the top one for me to the part. I just love how the song changes from error to error. I just it's you know, Siri if we were ever in the room together. We're about a Mera Lauda from there. I was with you. Yeah, we get my wife dead. Get some looks from people when we when we were traveling from one one scene to the ex with I just think it's I mean obviously being a you know off after listening to six hundred episodes of the wdw radio show and learning what I've learned, you know the song of you know, how the song was built for GE. It takes them so much more memory. It's you know Waltz in the Sherman Brothers, but I just don't know if there's it's just a really great. It's a fun couple of June fall asleep. I hate people to say that go in there for the air conditioning fall asleep. Stop it. Anyways, I love me here. So progress It's it is in my in my trial and it's my birthday. So so you want to be controversial and talk about how you love now is the time. Well now it's not like it's controversial because it's you know, basically this is a love letter to Buddy X and the Sherman Brothers I love now is the time I think because of of when I heard it, right look I said at the top of this that a lot of the love and the feels that we have or are are grounded in, you know, Nostalgia and memories and now is the time now is the best time when when that song was introduced into the attraction around nineteen. Gosh. I'm trying to maybe eighty-three whatever it was in the early eighties, you know, Jesus wanted guests not to be thinking about what was coming tomorrow. They wanted them to buy washers and dryers today. So now is the time now is the power to do it. Yeah, and there was and there was something and I know maybe it was not a favorite of the Sherman Brothers, but I think because I remember being in Tomorrowland with my dad and and you know be with my mom and my brother there was dead. That sort of just stuck with it. I look I still love Great Big Beautiful tomorrow. I'm not going to sing either one of them here, but I do sing, you know while I'm in the car or by myself. So often you kind of like a lot of people who to catch him know you don't want to eat trust me. Don't worry and you can hear those in the Tomorrowland Loops as well. But you know what? I mean, as long as we're talking about attractions, I have to give a little bit of love to it's not current but as long as it's again, it's it's you know, 1975 blue module. Oh, I remember riding Space Mountain with my dad when they used to have the seats where you sort of sat. Like I sat like basically like in between my dad's legs and remember giving my life because my head back and whatever but I remember and when it opened in 75, it was sponsored by RCA and as you entered the attraction, you heard an instrumental version of the phone number. Song which was here's to the Future and you saw the RCA. What was the name of the RCA dog? Now I will give you a free audio guy off liberal actors name is slippery slippery. It was Nipper Nipper was the RCA dog, and he was in this life UFOs that had the big sort of gramophone and it said R welcomes you but the song was here's to the Future and was here's to the Future and year. I want to sing it but I can't I'll see we're done. That's one of those. Here's to the Future. Here's to the Future. Here's the future. It's a world full of color of Perfect Harmony off the leaks militi RCA leads the way our system. So I'm doing it in my very Jazzy seventy-five. I I do not remember CA reach the way I did and then they had to all be Petty when RCA left the actually tweaked a little bit and took RCA out of it. Okay that little bit of time. But yeah, here's to the Future Thursday from from the this mid-to-late 70s was was still one of my favorite not there anymore, but I dig and clearly we're not through because we haven't been to a parade or seen fireworks. So just need to mention that right now. Go ahead. I actually did not include parades or fireworks. Oh, I know there's a reason why I have to include fireworks other than it's a small world at seeing that this is a very unpopular opinion because everybody loves wishes and it was a great show. But but I was there the opening night of happily-ever-after and that song The Words the two everything resounded with me. I was like, he says you can have your happily-ever-after. I was like, oh my gosh. Anyway, I happily ever after is my favorite fireworks. I mean, I'm sorry in the Magic Kingdom there. We understand what I'm saying. They're okay. I have a different opinion. Once we go to another Park. Yeah, maybe I might be with you either parades and fireworks. Yep. Well, I mean we have to talk about the big gorilla the room and Main Street Electrical Parade. I mean, how do you not talking about but this will be unpopular opinion number 99 good I liked it. But for me spectromagic was musically so much better for me. But I mean, you know here we are talking about, you know, you know, they're both really really good, you know at this point we're talking preferences. I don't know if it was I don't know why I preferred and that's what I'm going to say. I preferred I'm not going to say Main Street Electrical Parade when they brought it back there's a sense of nostalgia that I do like do like but I'm getting to know of researching the show. I always thought that broke hold down was written for the praying it wasn't right, right. I understand it was adapted for the birth. Correct, which I did not know which is it was actually it was a song that was from I mean see the mid-sixties. Yeah, sixty-seven. It was from Creighton 6-7 by early synthesizer pioneers, and I'm he was French and Gershwin Kinsley and it was on an album called off your scope pic. I can reach has electric pop music from the way out got it doesn't scream ninety or or seven of these players kaleidoscopic vibrations Guru nanak pop music pop in nineteen. Wow, that that yeah, but for me spectromagic now, do you know do you need of course, you know who wrote the main thing for spectromagic blue button. Do you know Terry Simpson daughter who wrote spectromagic I would have to cheat on here in Georgia. And try to get it back to spectromagic. Medley. Oh David Benoit. It's no David. Benoit is a jazz piano player who covers the song for that thing off aren't too so got it from okay. Yeah. I know. I know if it's tight Louis typing waitress and Haber show me have at it. And it John debney definitely he is a very famous film composer. He did little known films like hocus-pocus else Iron Man Iron Man song gives me and the live-action Jungle Book. Yeah, cuz he kind of likes working with that John guy, you know, but yeah, I was I was very like, oh, well, they're guys that guy's got some jobs, which is probably another reason why the need all this towards spectromagic for me, but Terry I'm kind of with you heavily ever. I love with his I love me. I love me some wishes wage. There's something about heavily a happily ever has and it was just so amazing like that. First time I said, I'd see but nostalgic for me is the first time I saw it. I relived every time I see I think it might be because again for me it's how the arrangements are are put together, you know, you're taking classic Disney songs and putting them together this way. I don't know when we get into the whole Hunchback thing. You know, I start losing it. It's it's so good. Now that we took the show over from Lou. Now, I know this is very without going to you know, look you gotta remember something everything at Disney is somebody's favorite. Right? Right. Everything is somebody's favorite. So, there's never a right or wrong Angela. I love Main Street Electrical Parade again before nostalgic reasons, you know, the I remember that music there's something Not seeing that that giant Elliot and I love how it continues to come back especially even hearing Baroque hoedown and things like light and magic and paint the night and remember dreams come true as long as you know, paying homage to the electrical parade, but I think you know, I think what this shows is right is how passionate we all are about different pieces of music throughout this single park for a lot of different reasons, and I think it's also interesting to see how as we go through and sort of examine both not just the theme music but the the the background music off and the transition some of which you know are maybe hopefully they might have been unnoticeable to you before but maybe we point them out to you now, just how impactful the month. Is if I had to ask you your top three, what do you think the top if we had reserved come with the with the definitive list of the top three gain traction songs in Magic Kingdom. What do you think you are three would be you're not even put on order if you don't want good. Okay, but you're saying attraction does that mean that that eliminate the fireworks off? So whatever you want the top three songs top three songs in Magic Kingdom go you got five seconds. Oh always going to be me first. Okay, it is going to be all the guys that turn me on turn Em Down at number three and it's going to be happily ever after at number two and it's going to be it's a small world that number one am a go back and forth with the happily-ever-after small world for their I did it David Shani Davis. Tony elects number one. Oh my God Great Big Beautiful Tomorrow. Yep. Two would be grim grinning ghosts and number three who everybody else number three probably home. I don't know. I don't have a I don't have anything that damages the flipping. Well, I was going to I'm actually back in anything the Dapper Dans do yeah, you know, so so often that you find yellow, I mean look, you know, it almost would feel sacrilegious. If you don't put Small World on the list like you sort of almost have to put Small World list. I'm also going to give you I'm going to cheat a little bit and give you a blast from the past the theme song to if you had wings if you said it's a Buddy Baker this game, I love you know, gosh I want to put I'm going to treat I don't care if you are cheating both songs from Carousel of Progress at home. and at number one grim grinning ghosts I will add It's a Small World. See now. I I guilted you know, I actually I actually forgot his old enough to listen and look, you know podcast reason why doing this is is certainly for fun. It's maybe to make you more aware and even turn you onto songs that might you might have thought of before in the past you've been able to find a lot of these thoughts on a variety of different CDs the kids you can Google what that is. There was the official albums like where magic lives and four Fox One World home of the other ones at one point used to be able to see these On Demand on Main Street USA. Now, you can find a lot of these on on both Spotify and certainly a lot of the background Loops. You can find on the YouTube, you know, and maybe for another time, you know, we'll talk maybe I'll do a top 10 places to stop and listen and Magic Kingdom because I think wage There are occasions where you can just stop and and not just smell the roses and eat the Dole Whip but stop and listen to some of these background songs and it I'm telling you it might sound silly to you or a waste of your time, but they really are in many cases attractions in and of themselves may not think the two of you guys enough for spending the time in in on this virtual tour of Magic Kingdom with me again, the music is just so critical to the story the story telling and the emotion and it's why we go it's why we go back. It's why we continue to love and talk about and revisit these Parks especially Magic Kingdom over and over and over again again. Thank you guys so very much David Shoni and Terry Simms and already am First order ladies first, if people want to connect with you on the internet's working. They find you I am Terri since he dard stints. Wow, It's a my last name, No problem. We'll put your name in the show notes. So you can do and I do have a page full of magic Journeys on Facebook. It's our Journeys. So pretty easy to find it if anybody's interested it can always go ahead and visit DJ DJ DJ are music.com. I'd like to tell everybody that right. Now the song that I wrote with one of our fellow listeners my good friend Pete Bush choose the good inspired by mr. Bellow is up on the website. It's available as a free download and I actually would like to offer anybody who is interested in sketches for a limited time if they use the code w d dog. You radio, they'll get 40% off this the cost of their digital download. So I don't know if I was just allowed to do that. But you don't you don't look now Mom. I love I love good people doing good things and spreading and sharing the good is as much a part of choosing and doing the good. So thank you all so much for doing this. I want to know from you our friend The Listener. What is your favorite piece of music music in Magic Kingdom, whether it be current long extinct attraction theme song background music Area Music, whatever it might be the best way to let me know is to go to w w.com. Click on The Sweet Spot connect leave it using the contact form there or better yet. Be heard on the air call the voice mail of 407-900-9391. Tell me which one you love and why, Georgia. You know what sing it sing a few bars. Yeah just have at it cuz as soon as I hit the stop button and and disconnect these two guys, that's exactly what I'm going to do. If you had wings you could do many things you could widen your world if you had wings you get everything set up for you. It's time for our Walt Disney World track question of the week right by to test your knowledge Walt Disney World History, or see how well you pay attention to the details sometimes what you see here taste or remember if you think you know the answer off Enter via the online form for a chance to win a Disney Prize Package. Of course before we get to this week's question. We were to go back review last week's and select our winner. So last week as we started our tour of the music of Magic Kingdom, I got to thinking not just about the movies in the Parks but some of the characters as well and your question will last week was to tell me where in Walt Disney World does or did Ariel have her own restaurants and they even gave you a not-so-subtle hint which may or may not have been named after her now. This one was a little bit trickier than you might have. Thought. I think a lot of people did not remember although congratulations to those who did that Ariel had a restaurant of her same name at the beach club from November 1950 thru May 1997 during that time. It started out as a very upscale seafood restaurant and then eventually moved to a location that was primarily used just for special events weddings et cetera now, although it was called Ariel's it did not have Ariel or any character is really a lot of references to the movie itself What You song Was ironwork Gates that were adorned with fish light fixtures that had tropical fish and hand blown glass bubbles to edit a little bit of Whimsy. It had a lot of those heels and corals and muted pink colors. So it gave you a sense that you were under the sea, but Ariel flounder everyone else versus Le nowhere to be found dead. So it was slightly themed but a little bit more upscale on them again. It was eventually used for a storybook celebrations in this underwater realm which offered the Perfect Blend according to his knee of casual elegance and Fish Tale fantasy to give you a sense of where Ariel's was technically is because the space is still there. You can still actually see it. It's located next to Martha's Vineyard in Disney's beach club resort wage around the corner from peaches and cream. So I took all of the correct entries randomly selected one. And again last week you were playing for all of my digital products my Hundred two ways to save money for not Walt Disney World book off. 7 of my work virtual audio walking tours of Magic Kingdom and a brand new item the beautiful new cobalt blue W W radio Lobo mug, which literally just came in a day or so ago and last week's winner randomly selected is Victoria me lay from Piscataway, New Jersey, I grew up in Plainfield right around the corner spent a lot of time in Piscataway including but not limited to Kathmandu Diner which I wonder is still there. One of the few things. I miss about New Jersey are the diners. We just don't have near Florida anyway, but I digress Victoria you usually online form. I will get your Prize Package after right away if you played last week and didn't win. That's okay. Cuz here's your next chance to enter in this week's Walt Disney World trivia challenge. So in the Japan Pavilion at Epcot Center, yes, if you've ever heard the short before you probably know it's my favorite Pavilion one of my favorite places anywhere in Walt Disney World. There is actually a gift that was given to Walt Disney World specifically to Roy Disney personally from the emperor of Japan. This item was originally located at Disney's Polynesian Village Resort, but was not moved here when Epcot opened what item in the Japan Pavilion Was that gift from the emperor to Walt Disney World go to help you again. This answer could be found in my Instagram stories from this past week check the trivia highlight for pictures and details. Anyway, this contest runs until Sunday, September 13th at 11:59 p.m. Eastern. If you think of the answer you could just go to wwe.com click on the 6th podcast use the online form there and you'll be entered for a chance to win and if you dig down Be sure to follow along on my Instagram both on my posts and stories and instagram.com blue and yellow for daily Disney trivia. We'll have some fun. Hopefully learn something along the way so good luck and have fun. That's going to do it for this week's show and I just want to quickly say thank you again for being here. I cannot tell you how much I appreciate you. I know how valuable your time is and how limited package and the fact that you spend and shared with me each and every week means more than you know, I need you to know that you are important and you are special and you matter and am I for one am incredibly grateful to you and for you, I would love for you to come and continue to be part of the community and the conversation by joining our Facebook group at w w.com slash community and there you'll not only find a link to the group. But other ways that you can be part of the community as well speaking of community huge thanks to everyone who is part of the WWE own Nation family. I sincerely appreciate your love and support friendship and help and I also love being able to give back to you and connect with you and other special ways each and every month. I want to thank some new and long-time members of the nation bath. Including Dicky casting Donna Milligan Rochelle Michael Denise Watson long-time friends, Janet and Gary's really Austin wraith and Russell Dameron. Again. Thank you so very much. And if you want to find out how you can not only help the show, but get exclusive rewards every month including scavenger hunts. Trivia Quest. We have a private Facebook group magic band covers low gears care packages live video group calls and lots more. You can visit w w / support don't forget. It is completely optional very much appreciated. It starts as little as a dollar a month and a portion of the of your contributions do go to the Dream Team project to benefit of the Make-A-Wish Foundation of America and as the show is always by 4 with and about you. I'd love to hear from you took a question. You're going to answer on the are you can email me loo ww.com or call the voicemail be heard on the air at 407-900-9391. It's 407 902 home. Question a comment a review or just a hello from the parks, please. Visit loo. Maan jealous cam to find out how I could maybe help you turn what you love and to what you do with one-on-one mentoring how long part of our small weekly Mastermind group speaking and events. You can learn more by visiting the all new loom Angelica speaking of all new web sites, by the way, if you haven't checked out the brand spanking new WWE, please go give it a spin and has been completely rebuilt from the ground up. It has faster. It is easier to navigate and there's a lot more content for you to find on the new site. And if you dig it, I hope that you do please do me a favor tell a friend speaking of telling a friend all I ask from you my friend and we are friends whether we have met yet or not is to please help spread the word telephone. No doubt that you listening share a link and tag me over on Facebook or Instagram and if you can just take a couple of seconds to rate and review the show over an apple podcast and is incredibly helpful. Very much appreciated. I want to thank some recent reviewers like Jennifer P from Australia who says it's terrific podcast fun and informative. I won't even bother trying to do an Australian accent. It's a month for first-time Travellers to Walt Disney World or to relive the magic with luminous guests, Luiz Carlos Pantoja pillow from Brazil says, it's the best podcast about Walt Disney World off for everything you do for the Disney community and and Below 16 says, it's the best podcast. I'm listening to Lou four years. I've enjoyed every single episode. He's put out. The Live reviews are my only ones I skipped because I am too hungry. Every episode is informative and extremely enjoyable to listen to I've actually gone back to episode one making my way forward listening to each even the early episodes are full of interesting conversations. I used and list that any Disney fan will love to listen to Angelo Louise and Jennifer. Thank you so very much again. Just search for w w radio in apple podcast or if you go to wwe.com ITunes will give you a direct link and instructions on how to do it quick. Thanks as always to my partners more importantly my friends over at Mei and mouse fan travel whether you're planning a trip have questions about booking an upcoming trip to World Land Cruiser Adventures by Disney Becky and her team of agents are there to help you all at no cost. You can visit them at at my house man travel.com finally most importantly. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, I love and appreciate you so so very much. I hope that this show brings you a little bit of Joy. Hope it makes your day a little bit happier. Maybe even inspired to be better to choose the good to be the good and do good for others as well. And I hope that this truly is your best week ever if there's some way that I can help you. Thank you walk in any way. Please don't ever hesitate to reach out and let me know. I hope to see you in real life in the Parks again soon. So until next time thank you. I love you. Co Hello, this is Jeff Richardson. Your number one fan in Brookhaven, Mississippi. I just want to let you know I've kind of completed a milestone I start at April of 2018 listening to your broadcast and I wage listen to the nearest one's and then go back to the to the older ones. I have now completed all 601 in that short 2 and 1/2 year time. Just wanted to say how wdw radio has changed all my yard work and all my running have been dominated by the podcast in my ears. I watch a lot of movies. I never planned on watching. I read a lot of books. I never knew about got to meet Lou in January of my life because of his big heart and a lot of things that's going on in my family. That was a wonderful surprise. I spend my trips looking around the parks and saying Luke said this and was sad that I am running team with my daughter and we ran the half-marathon at2020 often changed my Disney a dining reservations because I listened to a live dining review with blue cheese. Yeah, and Burien and Nicholas, and you know, I'll have a lot of other things that just don't even have time to mention, but I love Disney and especially, you know, it's made it back that I'll look wdw radio so much. So thanks Lou for just making my life better and add a little bit of a lot of positivity enjoy into my daily life. Keep doing what you're doing man dead hailu, it's Steven Conte calling from Massachusetts. I wanted to call and congratulate you on 600 shows. I tried calling in on the Wednesday project live show, but couldn't get through, which was great. It was so nice to hear so many people call in and congratulate you, but I wanted to call and thank you for the Hours upon hours of entertainment and enjoyment in education. You have brought all of us over the years. Obviously, we're all big fans of Disney and thank you so much for bringing them into our lives when we can't get down there as often as we'd like to and I also wanted to thank you for all of your inspiration. I was an attendee at momentum 2017, which is coming up on three years ago and that event continues to be to this day a top-10 experience for me in my life. It affected me profoundly both personally and professionally and it's something that I reflect back on all the time as parents and as a business person, I thank you so much for all that. So anyhow, hopefully Everything is good with you and your family during this challenge of time and I look forward to hearing another 600. Thanks so much, buddy. Take care off. I Lou Allen Cole here. And it's out of Maryland toward our own Florida project in Wintergarden. Congratulations live on six hundred and thank you on so many levels Banks to Tennyson Lisa and all the families who share your insights in five thirty two, and thirty three which along with a couple of trips to the park to visit think about two years ago. They came our Catalyst to turn our Lifelong Love of All Things Disney into a movie Walt Disney World bank's Kenneth or joining us for supper club, wouldn't mind. He's become one of our early connections to Walt Disney World and lose money. Don't worry my saintly wife eighty-two agreed to give up for his entire Comfort Zone in response to my incessant whining about finding my happy place. We'll probably have forgiven you for 5:32 and 3 by the time we need so to all of our new friends and our future friends. Have a magical weekend will see a real Zoom Halo is Christine Martin again in Flourtown PA. I'm just finishing up listening to show six hundred wage and you wanted us to know to let you know what our favorite episodes were. So my favorite episode is my very first episode and never listened to God. I let my son at the pool cuz they join the pool Club. Summer and it was you guys Greencastle going over your first day ever in Pandora. I'm going on your very first ride on flight of Passage and we had a big family trip set for the summer of 2017. And after I listened to that podcast my mouth was like hanging off. Because you guys are so good at describing without giving anything away and it made me so excited to go and get on that page and keep listening to the podcast. I don't know if you guys remember what show number that was, but I believe it was the summer of 2016-2017. I forget anyway, that was my most memorable because it was my first and I remember very vividly. Like hanging on every word that was coming out of you guys now, so that's it. That's all I have to say. I could go on forever, but I'm not going to have a good day guys suck. Hello. Hello. Mr. Bean. May I can be formally West Seneca New York and I am calling in to say that we are now in the month of September and we have Labor Day coming up and things are hopefully going to get better soon and just think about it. You've got let's see September October November December January birth months until that Marvel's Crews who who can't wait to see the pictures from that. I love Marvel Marvel and my nephew Georgie is now in addition to Marvel characters. We actually watched the Spider-Man under the marble app on Disney plus so that was great my niece even like Bob Yet so Sacha enjoyed it as well when I was just there seeing now then you got March for that trip overseas. I cannot wait to see that that is going to be absolutely amazing. I wish I could go but I can't so I'm going to live by seriously. Like I always do through everyone in our community. I love the wdw radio family and box people and Community. Thank you for everything. You do stay safe wear a mask. Socially distance have an M. Okay. Off off off off off.

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The Ultimate Cheat Meal - #610

Rooster Teeth Podcast

1:22:00 hr | 3 months ago

The Ultimate Cheat Meal - #610

"RT TV is sponsored by Express APN protect your online privacy today express VPN dot com slash Rt. thanks xpress sweeping for sponsoring us. PODCAST. Gus. I'm Gavin. I'm John. I'm a bar brawl Malumba. Energy John. My Energy's fine. I was laughing at your little waiting on your camera to turn. Stall. Professional. My energy I laughing what what, what, what, what you want from me. Well, I feel like. My energetic intro dead immediately went into like I'm going to counteract that by being like it's. You. GotTa. Have them the complement each other. You can't just have all energy. That's true. All the yen's to my Yang. Though. That's I I've been drinking one white claw every week and I think. Hold on. I know that just be the story right there. I've been drinking one Mike Claw a week. Every week and it's just a funny thing to declare. Every week on the podcasts up in grabbing one from the box of twenty, four I. Think there were three missing. What I started this is the last one is really been doing. Twenty. One weeks? Now, this five months almost next week will be five months that we've been doing number. March twenty third. In Office kind of. A year. This. We. Were we miss the steak off already wherever you do about that we're going to miss ice cream Sunday Monday. Cheat this time. We'll do a double stake of next year Gavin. You what we should do. Okay. Eric this happen. On the day we're finally back in the studio doing the podcast. Again, we're going to do everything every event we've missed all in the same episode we're GonNa have a stake off. Yeah we're GONNA Sunday Monday. If we're still not there by shrove Tuesday, we're going to do that. WE'RE GOING TO HAVE A. TACO. Monday. At all of all of them were going to do when we get back, it's going to be such a big celebration. Where every event in the Episode. Sunday, Sunday Monday, but. You said Taco Monday which was Tuesday. Wasn't it tucked away Tuesday Monday. Right and then Sunday Monday steak off and Pancake Day collection will do them all. I'm all for it. So what you're saying, donate anything two days leading up to the vet because the podcast is going to take place at Golden. Corral. Could we make a sandwich with instead of bread it's pancakes and instead of like Ham, it steak. capsulated. About this poor syrup over it and just take out of it. But K. should a pancake steak sphere now state ball Eric. So that way, I can do exactly what you say and somehow still get everyone going that actually wasn't right. Do you think you did exactly what I said do you think that's what happened Say Chats pretty excited right now chat. Chat Hi. How We're going to make a sandwich with pancakes and steak or what is Gavin saying he? Type of pizza. Pizza Pizza. Oath pizzas fear. Yeah. So you gotta some aspect of pizzas fear in the piece spear can be. Of The encasement. And Inside Is Different sized pancakes going up at the widest diameter. It's a rabbi and smaller pancakes. Covered in pizza between two slices of Bread I. Hope you write that down. Yeah I. got it. I do that exactly and then everyone would be like this isn't what he described and then send me an Eric Andre did it for years ago but I've never seen it so. Eric. Most defensive about this I'm. Miserable, we have something to look forward to finally. At the end of all of this, we can look forward to this grand event we're going to have we we have a reason to keep going if I want to eat. A pancake steak sandwich. That's what I'm. GonNa do the day we're back the office. Somebody chat set a ball. Is this fear? Yes. But what we would what we described. was. Pizzas getting bigger and smaller to make the spinoff. It's not just a clump of pizza which is. Which I'm not sure. Live I'm in your corner man, it was fantastic. I think you did the best you could with the information you had but I think what is picturing will never live up to what actually happens because what don't you understand about it you just described what I made. It's. It has a diameter no the middle that's the largest and the sizes change. Its equidistant from left to right is it is up to down, it's what I made. Pizzas fear. Gavin just wanted a bunch of pizzas. Stacked on top of each other from smallest to largest to smallest again, opera totally gets it. That's what I made. Notes yes. What I made and then I rapped pizza around it. So that way it held its shape it's I. Never got the description. I never got the description of what you made I ate what you made at some point but might have been like an early version. But if you did do the stack and then just wrapped it I, think you did exactly what you're supposed to do exactly. What I did. Let's ask. I did exactly I did exactly. What happened I drew out. Any time I get it I. Did it damn it I. Did it every way you wanted it left right and center, and you couldn't appreciate it not. Our second could even love it the way you should have you couldn't. You couldn't give yourself over to the pizza sphere. Camden. New I did it because I know? Okay all. Doing I. Didn't I forgot that that was on the inside. What you did is you blinded the creation you encased Four it didn't appreciate it hold. It wouldn't hold the structural integrity of the pizza was sad you had to think about this build a building wouldn't get made without rebar things have to. Hold the structure together Gavin I know I know, I. Didn't do it slow enough for you. So you could put it in six hundred frames a second but. I made it the way you want it you understand me and south. America Andrei Clips, sending me the Eric Andre I like to I like pizza too pizzas very. Twenty one weeks warranty. Pizzas past. July. Last year. This is where we're at now. It's been over a year since the pizzas fear blue everyone's mind. Ideals attorney blow people's Mind I. Feel like. Disappointed, everyone but that's only because I didn't truly understand. The construction. But now you do. Fishing for it now I did. Yeah. But let's return to our plans of the day of binging. When we return to working at the office and all the food, we're GONNA, make on the same day for the same podcast. I had. I had a stomach ache today and I couldn't figure out why stomach ache today until. I recalled Everything I ate yesterday for my Cheat Day which in hindsight pieces Fan I. Think I wear a little overboard John metoo. We I think we both had a cheat day yesterday. We had pizza for lunch and then. Is Going to match mine I don't think. So either a pizza lunch, and then for dinner we ordered choice which. You Guys Know Living Austin is Austin local place Mexican place. Delicious. Ordered way too much food because we were lazy and we're like we are we ordered food for lunch. Let's order food again for dinner and I woke up this morning with severe stomach cramps and to not have a great morning because of it, but my body does not enjoy do that too. It was it worth it though Oh one hundred, thousand percent gusts. It was one of the best meals of my life last night having Julie's. Yeah. That's all it matters worth it but I I definitely. Not GonNA light took at least one of my meetings in the bathroom this morning. We were we were in a meeting. I don't remember exactly who was in it. I think John and Barbara were also in this meeting last last week or the week before, and there were a few of us on it and all of a sudden Blaine was in the video conference on his laptop and all of a sudden he started moving around. And walking around. Then he said Oh. Shit I need to go to the bathroom and I almost took the laptop with me in there while I was on the call. If you walk he just almost absent mindedly walked in the bathroom and just even thinking about the action he was taking while he was still on the call with video with videos yeah yeah. He almost took us. He's that that's how comfortable he's getting I think we're all getting more and more comfortable with it because this is our only form of communication these days especially like we take all of our meetings via video call and just like you don't even think about it anymore because it's so second nature at this point. Yeah you think you don't think about it until two minutes before the podcast goes live discord goes down for some fucking reason you have to scramble. To. Communicate with everybody fucked discord always go down. That's probably being used more than usual now. BRING BACK MSN's. Since is Emmerson. Messager gone. It's got. They changed it's a windows live and then they been the whole thing I think the thing. Yeah. Windows Live Messenger Yeah. I guess they icq the killed in twenty twelve. Well ICQ I. that's even older. I secure they killed that it's like, oh, they're still releasing that. Google plus still thing. No Google plus. The thing that was like invite only for. Go. Really I remember Djamil Beta. Was a member that. Out tagged over the over the logo. I got a letter in the mail the other day I. Don't don't want to. Brag. But. I. I'm going to receive part of a settlement from a class action lawsuit against Google plus. Not. GonNa. Brag could eight dollars out of it. Going to spend it on. You actually applied to get the money. I guess I just got the letter that was like. You're you're in this class action lawsuit, go to this website. So I went to the website and I filled it out. I mean I got the same email but also considering that I income from Google I didn't feel. The money. They're going to spend the money regardless. If you don't take the money, some lawyers going to get the money. Google's going to pay the money regardless of whether or not you take it. Just felt morally doesn't take more marley crossed. It's like it would be like me using blood like I just don't out of yeah but it's not the same. They lost a lawsuit and they have to pay money for it. Lawyers got eat to gusts. To get a certain amount of money I, just want them getting my money. It's like. A couple of bucks. I don't know a block of Tofu could we please get a growth of you podcast leaning out your window going it's my money I, want it now. Nicole to G. Wentworth. Also, I feel really bad John. We'd completely skipped over what you ate on your Cheat Day. Now I. Really. I started my story in. Barbara's like, no, this is my story. What did you John You? The Bar has been set. Hi Barbara. Oh God. Not Saying it. All right. First Breakfast was. A bowl of cereal giant bowl of there's a serial that's frosted flakes lucky charms combined, and then I combined with that some cinnamon toast crunch, and then along with that, I had a frozen breakfast sandwich like a little crisan breakfast sandwich and the next that I had a little frozen Karachi that was first breakfast. Second Breakfast was eventually iced Latte from starbucks and a old-fashioned glazed doughnut from starbucks. Lunch was Alamo Draft House Buffalo Cauliflower omnivore pizza and chocolate chip. Cookie. Shake. Felons. Dinner. Was a Taco Bell State case a DEA. A NACHO double decker crunch TACO and a beefy five layer burrito. Dinner Dessert was some Ben and Jerry's ice cream in to chocolate cake bites. They're like these debt like almost like cake POPs hell yeah. and then I got hungry later. You've got hungry. And I. Had another small bowl of cereal and another coachee. And then I couldn't go to sleep. So I just munched on some more cheeses hell I. Mean you're active person, right? You'll probably but in through most of that. It's what I mean I don't normally go that that ham that's actually quite excessive and I do not recommend that to anybody for cheat meals cheat days anything do not do that. The only reason that I rationalize two times like that is that yes, Gavin I'm a very active person throughout the week. Same Day I did I did a full hour workout and also went for a six mile hike that day. Life is about balance guys and but also all throughout the week I also count calories and. Hit Macara's all throughout the week that are heavily controlled and completely bonkers for most people to try to even like deliver like this but it's how I like to eat. It's how I enjoy it. But so that's normal during the week and then Sunday I just like. Destroy the stomach lining of my body with that kind of national who kind of like. On Sundays. Bringing. Me saw how some called. IT'S A. PODCAST with us. Gets. I don't normally go that hard and but then like this more today I just was like, why am I? Why am I feeling sick to my stomach? It's really we're. Drinking my waters all. I like I like all my walk do like a walk this morning and I was like just counting everything that I did like, okay. We got so happy as hell while you suck in all that food down when you just full of joy. Oh Yeah. I'll say this if I if I read out everything I ate for the six days of the week you would be like that sounds like a terrible way to live. John you must hate life like love yourself doing I, think but no like I like what I eat during the week and then Sunday's a fucking holiday every single week for me it is a it is Christmas Day, every single Sunday for me I wake up Sunday morning and I immediately go make a bowl of cereal and I love it. It is in his like crack. It is fantastic and that's because it's just a special every single week that I get the same serial every week or is it like? I change it. I have a six boxes of cereal in my pantry that I'd I'd go through that kind of thing But yes, it was a hundred percent i. Eating all that it was fantastic. I also ate Taco Bell in the bathtub. That's how I had my dinner. I've. I've never been so he can eat food in the boss like love. Bathrobe Daddy. Go Soggy I would be trapped with the wet food sounds like. I have a little a little bath trae thing that connects to the two sides of my bath and it has a little stand for my for my little tablet that I watch a movie on. There and I'm sitting there eating my beefy five layer burrito while I. Watch you know. into the. Drop Likud oily onion into your bothell something a lump of meat. What do you? What do you? He put it what do you do this robin food in the bath is for an matures I am professional I wrapped my food perfectly. So nothing falls not A. Single. Chrome of that stay Casetta fell on the bath. Okay. I'm impressed. I think the worst thing ever I don't know if you how often do you guys take baths John I assume you probably take the most bathtub anyone here except for me? I would assume based off the store. Okay. I'll tell you what every so often have. You ever gotten like everything ready for your bath like got music the lights maybe candles like whatever you got going for your bath time to make it Nice you get in is nice and warm, and then you realize you gotTa Pee. All the time get out. And then you get out and you're like dripping. Now 'cause you gotta like hobble across the floor and not slip and also your fucking cold. Now 'cause you're wet and walking over to the bathroom and. This is your own fault. You've trained your body in the bathtub. What by now? You up in the shower. So now you get in the TUB. Thinks it's time to P and that's what's happening. Is He's right. You know I, don't think so I think my excuses. One hundred, seventy ounces of water a day. So I'm in a constant state of I have to pee right now and. Again. Even if I went right now I'd have to peek in the next half hour. It's just feel like that's also how you also eat ten thousand calories on Sundays that throughout the rest the week you drink like one hundred and seventy ounces of water every single day. I don't get the PA but the other day as a month ago I was just I was having a night bath. Relaxing wind down. But I was like brush my teeth and stuff before. In the boss but it was before I'd spout my mouthwash. Still, Gurgling your mouth. Yes. Because it's still working still like all just sat down the bar does I. I. Discussed over the side over the. Area Right I've see the Place Yeah. Yeah that's what I dived headfirst into by Bathtub. Everyone's like how long did that take to clear up war? A drain right there. I didn't just evaporated. Went down the drain. It was fine. So I feel like. That now. We get too far away from this because I do recall at the start of working from home Corentin Beck. In March I, remember requesting of you Gavin and Gus to try just once peeing in the shower during this time because why not it's time to try new things and you guys both agreed to it. Yeah has there been any movement I did it. All right. I hated it. I'm not doing that. I it's the best thing in the world. Also, getting to without. Anything, standing there. You just like just let it. further only time in my life. It felt right. It felt nice. But I was so worried that someone would walk in. The only person who walk in as Megan do you care if she sees peeing in the shower? If understood their urine flying into my pianist. Yeah. That'd be weird lying at the end of your. Like a projectile vomit type thing. I never happens to me in trevor where he'll warned me if he's about to be when he's in the shower because I could see the shower from our thanks and it'll be like don't look here for twenty seconds. Okay. Got It and vice versa. That's that's my favorite part of having a relationship not watching P. it's being comfortable enough with each other that you can say things like that and it's like, okay I won't look you're going to be like I love that level of. Transparency of guests we're all just creatures who have to do things. We're not gonNA act like Oh. We we don't. We don't. We don't far tonight to things like, no no no fuck that we're all creatures daybreak I told you guys a story about how trevor and I broke that CEELO. Not Obviously not going to the bathroom in front of each other because that's your personal time but like being open about like I need to. Number two right now. So might be a period of time. It was when we both went to a certain Greek restaurant that's nearby. The office. And went back to his place and both immediately got food poisoning. Luckily, he had two bathrooms because I was like I'm going to. Use your bathroom for a second He's like I'm actually going to go to the bathroom to. We were like texting each other like. Are you? Okay are you also not doing so well, right now he's like Yup. There's no better icebreaker about food poisoning. Kosov. Realize everything I would encourage new couples to get food poisoning together just to break. Just to clean out. My apartment is so small and the bathroom is literally centralized. There's nothing I can do to hide me taking a to Z here. Yeah. This. Absolutely. podcast brought to you by me undies me and wants to talk about your underwear like seriously they have a lot of feelings about it and I just want to jump into who listen. So we got. Me Andy just wants everyone feel comfy. Heck with the freedom to express themselves. 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It's a no brainer especially because they wanted to percents satisfaction guarantee to get fifty percent off your first order free shipping anyone represents satisfaction guarantee good immunities dot com slash richer teeth, nets, mendis, dot com slash rooster teeth. Said world's squirrel just big water bags that have occasionally we have to. Get rid of. Bags. I saw a video on our website this week. Oh. No. Action. Yeah I gotta go. Oh you're being. Also have to go I. Don't know I. Don't know what the video is Gavin Finish your story. You're also guilty John Guilty. It's well, you sort of a bitch I don't fucking care what's the story. We've been playing FACTORIA. audio. Now as Gus Imbaba. Playing Factoria. At least get that Gus and I did not come out because the footage got corrupted. Oh, shit are serious. Yeah, it got corrupted. It literally, it was literally shutting down Cameron's. Premier every fifteen seconds. Good. Did you how did you find out about that Video Gavin? Sore. A. Sore. Thumb now and I was like. I was like this a new. One of a bitch. So I left a comment on it. Yeah. Here comment was what the fuck. Which I think is actually someone pointed this out. It's just right for me material because what I did was I clicked on all comments and the first one was what the fuck from you. And so it just said all comments what the fuck. That'll be a good meam for just responding to things that are really shitty. So. I was I tried to obviously to delete the video from the website. That kind of power. I. Don't know how to do that. So I looked it up Gavin I was curious. Could you want to take a guess as to what the maximum number of players in a multiplayer game is? I'd bet it's insanely high. Oh Yeah. I saw video fifty you should guess. He's had. Fifty the maximum number. The hard limit for players is sixty, five, thousand, five, hundred, thirty, five. You will have to automate anything. People. My God can we does that mean that we can we can host a game with as many people as possible like if we grabbed from the community, that's a good idea. And just did a swarm game of Factoria. There is friendly fire. We'll have to be friendly fire. But it wouldn't be up to fill the game. That's. That's more slots than there are people who would ever join I probably more people than play. Torio. Let let us know. People, people, I'm reading chat right over here. Let's no, that's something you'd be interested in joining with us. We should. We should try to get that going. Doing not only if you played with Barbra and Jon Gusts you in play with every single person lives. What's just a podcast? I'll. Knew I was GONNA say. Don't in week Evan Invite Sixty, five thousand other people but. I think a bit. The Town I grew up in the town I grew up in was like twenty thousand people if everyone in the town group would have three computers all logged into Factoria at the same time that would be the equivalent of playing player game of Factoria. How? How long would it take to load that game with that many people would mask. Unless the server was powerful enough. It would break the game but I think that would be part of the fun is seeing. I mean, sometimes it's fun just to try to break games and so I think that would be part of it is just like many people in there's possible and just have them do stuff and craft stuff and build stuff until the game just goes no interest in the game you get the box that fly around get shit for you and stuff you could. That would be people you have just a swarm of people like doing everything by hand, you wouldn't have to build a single machine. I see a video here on Youtube that got uploaded seven months ago. It's got a million views and it's a video of five hundred players on Factoria server all at the same time. Yeah. That's what I remember seeing that. So when you said Butler. I'M GONNA put in our chat here. Dec-. Guys can see it if you new call or original call also the game just let you call where a game just left Beta for the first time, right? Yeah. The game has officially Beta and. There's like spider tanks at it. Now, I don't know if you saw that it's part of the final release you make spider tanks, shoot nuclear weapons. Enemies on the map do I can't believe it was in early access for like seven years and I played it like one month before he came out officially. Prison that I started talking about it. Recently that inspired you to play was I got irate the announcement that they were leaving early access near finally gonNA release. Into final version. So that's why I started playing again and started talking about it. This video of makes me so. Insanely anxious. There are so either so much going on you can't you can't slow it. The best thing would be to try to then like get everybody into like a discord server or something where you could talk to everybody and just give orders of like all right everybody mine stone and put it into something. You'd have to break down right like one person in charge of like ten people who are in charge of ten people and they just keep breaking it down. It'd be like having tried come like a giant military force. You can't talk to everyone at once you have to have a chain of command working. Down through, we're going to do I'm I'm putting it on the books we're going to do it, but in all seriousness I think this would be something really fun to do. But in addition to that, Gavin, we should play Factoria with you I. think that would be fun. We just. Being in there with you hundreds of community members, I'm trying to get gusts of. Her. Thousand other people most going to post a video over here of the new spider trying as well the kiss y'all haven't seen that. Where are you posting this in the Nevada? Me An extra oh like how you call yourself the pickle man the pickle nate. You're going to show you my pickle Oh. Yeah. Yes. Programs are they ready to eat? No, not yet experiment number one dam busted his little shorts. It casual gus. Some cloudy rickles that's looking like it's coming on. The be ready supposedly on Wednesday. To drop off so we can try on the PODCAST. I'M GONNA be. Honest. With You Gavin I'm really scared that they might cause botulism. So. I'm going to eat one I and if I don't get sick, then I'll share them with you. How do you get them from pickle? But after I talked about it last week on the podcast people kept saying I tried to make pickles like that once and I got botulism Saddam terrified. I did something wrong. It's. Something that you recover from. You. It could be fatal and require emergency medical care. So I kind of don't even want you to try it but. Then I love wasted like a dollar in cucumbers if I don't eat them. Oh No Strip of paper that you could dunk in and it detects botulism accepted lights up a funny color. So Like. Furnace. So, we'll see there'll be ready on Wednesday if. If I don't look at my calendar for Thursday I might have to call in sick. So if we're if you need me for something on Thursday, I might not make it D- I'm. Thirsty. A. Very Important Day we're we're finally getting somewhere in that campaign. We need our our, Dad. Yeah. So yeah, we'll we'll have. A promise but Google immediately, because I wanted to see I don't know much about botulism but now I do. I've been. Because of like people can always talk about a plane Factoria. So people have been recommending that I finally that try to play satisfactory, which is like a first person. FACTORIA. So I started playing that as well like last week the week before and we're putting some time into it and it's a fun game and there's research trees and it's I feel like it's a lot earlier in development. Obviously, Factoria was in development along time. It's very very it was very close to done very complete for a long time satisfactory definitely has something in the game that you find. That are like this is a work in progress. This doesn't do anything yet, but today I finally got the research tree down to a point where I was able to build a gun. I had. I've been so scared the entire time playing this game. It was like these animals if I see them, it's really hard to kill them. They're gonNA kill me now I've got a gun I'm walking around like fuck you could just shoot you like I'm not afraid of anything that game more I'm walking around fearless shooting every animal I can find and I think that so. I don't know it's sex. So indicative of the human condition, your humans live terror of every animal in the world until you have like a leg up on them with technology like fuck you I am wiping off the planet I did the exact same thing in factory because I played with aliens on and the moment I got a nuclear power tank that could base it can. Hold us just drive over the deaths. I would just hunting them down every like a couple of hours. I would just be they getting close at I would just drive the premier and annihilate everything. But at the beginning of the game I was like Oh shit. I was like places, terrorists freaking out place terrorists then place another tarit closer to get ones that I wasn't reaching. Satisfy. That stage, it's almost like a tower defense game where you have a network of Garrett's that. Offer protection. But yeah satisfactory one I think are like Victorio more but. Also a lot of fun it's very find playing Factoria with you gus I ever did by myself and I think it's Trying to learn and do it by myself. I was like, okay this. Feels like a lot of kind of homework. Done necessarily feel that fun I could see like getting into it more and like having things work together but playing with you, it made me understand the entire thing so much better. It helps to learn ask someone else questions just because it's so the game is so open ended it doesn't hold A little bit at the beginning but you reach a point where it doesn't really tell you what stuff does kind of have to like trial and error figure it out like I think even to this day gap and you never got your signal networking for your trains right? Now. I couldn't figure it out to say I did that you tour on as I complete it and I was like I don't know what I just did to. The signal network do you can like automate your? You tell you that's not even know what it is. So if you get your signal network working right, you can automate loading and unloading your trains and you can have multiple trains on the same track and have signaling so that they don't collide with each other. Okay. Well, then let the record show that I'm better at a factory or than gallon because. I I had automate trains could unload, but they wouldn't. I couldn't have multiple trains on the same track. They wouldn't wait for each other and stuff and I actually I was too lazy to build. So had like an area above where my base was that my would auto goto and collect resources but then to get my uranium, add to go further but I was too lazy to build a second track and didn't know how to work the signals so I would just. Put another train on the same track, and then I extended the track beyond where my other trainings going and I would just have to wait and hope that. Looming. The other way so I would see my training like. Go Out There was terrifying. 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I I'm having such nostalgia with because when I was this is around the time I actually discovered retail. So I was like thirteen fourteen ish that age I used to spend more time downloading moths for that game than I did playing it because I was obsessed with finding different outfits and hairstyles and furniture and stuff. So I can make things look good but then I became so obsessed downloading stuff that I found more joy in doing that than actually playing it was like shopping. A, and so I found out, there's an entire, of course. There's millions and millions of gallons of able since four. So I've just been doing that all the time like downloading new furniture and outfits and things like that because. Obviously. We're not going outside on like I WanNa, do decorating, and shopping, and make my sims live this kind of lifestyle because I'm not doing that I'm living vicariously through them but I was gonNA. Make a joke while you guys were talking about Factoria unlike setting this up and that has to happen I was like, yeah man when when my person sleeping, they gotta get their energy up but they also have to be at the same time. So I gotTa Manage Waking Them. Up. Set up a signal network that's attached to their. Empty. Hit more. Efficient. It's so much fun though I love that game so much. It's very visible game I. Feel like whenever I pick up the sims it's like a heavy two weeks of just similar and then I'd put it. All expansion packs they have like the especially the. Pets one and the season's one. It adds so much that game and I've just been making families and adopting pets like crazy 'cause I I wanna play with the dog and now I get to play with dogs skin that's die. I think they do I haven't played through enough of one family to find out. But I think they do get old and pass away eventually. But tragic man like to train them and feed them and tell them to go potty and they're afraid of the dishwasher. It's like real life. We filmed. Weight seems for a few weeks ago that I think Gavin would have liked to have been a part of. And I think it's coming relatively soon that's I I wasn't invited or anything. To play games with. Hey. I invited you to my video that I shot with you last week. So I just want to on record that I did invite you to video. So I had made I had ordered this. Brand new gaming. Specifically for Microsoft Flight Simulator, and for cyberpunk twenty, seventy seven when they come out and the first game I played on it was. Sims for it was. It was like it's total overkill. What graphics do you got in the the? Twenty eight super. So. Have you played flight SIM? No it comes out tomorrow. I just set my region to Japan and I played it today you liar you can only preloaded. Planet. What what plane were you fly? I A pitcher be played it. satisfying. Keyboard. and. Mouse. Yeah. Because wouldn't be, it wouldn't be your time code. It would be your IP words at. Let's be flying over A. That was from. I also flew over Austin and I, flew from I wanted to fly from. Heathrow to Austin in time but. Today the PODCAST. If I get disconnected I'm changing my region and. Yeah. You just do it on the you just need the. The store in a region where already come out also they've removed crashing. Really. Was the fun and that they took out what you explosive plane crashes it just to a black screen saying he crashed which. That's how you would experience it. Right simulated. The Screen. You don't get that third person, perspective of the explosion I guess we live at a much more sensitive well to plane related incidents. But still it's it's a simulator you the crash is if I was in a driving simulator and there was no crashing, I'd be like West tough the game people like a good a aviation disaster podcast. Speak from personal experience under if you can see over here, I'm GONNA I'm GonNa put can can I get my white? Can I get my single shot? Yes I. Have I have my throttles here you see. Gavin. Stimulator. On my desk. A yoke thing or a joyce. Over there got you a joystick. Guy. GotTa Yoke. Okay. Yeah. Are Meeting Today Gus, was on the floor setting up his. Building my my my flight simulators. So guess was called into the meeting like hovered on the ground. So it was just his head popping up onto his webcam below his desk because he was just listening from down there. Come installing my flight simulator. It's important. GotTa be ready. It's like super detailed because I guess they pull. The. Pull like satellite imagery as you fly. Yeah. It looks good. Man is a good-looking game. So excited for that game. I was doing some four. K.. Hundred Twenty F- PS Action Spews it. What's the what what are? What is any level of advancement or a? Completion in that game. You take off and land. That's why what would what are you doing when you fly a real plane? Okay. So the answer to. That it is it is solely a vanilla simulator in that it is just simulating the experience. It is not a game with a narrative progression to any extent. Is there is there anything that stops you from being able to get certain planes or certain things or just everything unlocked and open for you once you start the game, they locked certain planes in airports out based on different editions of the game. So the basic version of the game comes with so many planes in airports and you have to pay for the deluxe edition that has more, and then like the ultimate edition that has more than that As far as this game I don't know you'd have to ask Gavin in the past I think everything was pretty much open from the get go. Yeah I'm not sure I. I've I play for like four minutes before we saw it. So I didn't really look around a ton but does the game introduce any unforeseen difficulties at any point in the past version of the game you could fly with difficulties if you wanted to. There was also in the past versions, there was a setting you could enable where there was a chance that something would go wrong during your flight and you would have you would know what it was and you'd have to diagnose it as if it was a real problem in the play, my biggest difficulties so far was. I started on a runway and it said released the parking brake with control and number pad delete and I. Didn't have a number pets Crash. Re Map remote keys. Are, are there any other? Is it all single player with any population of other pilots? NBC's or is it multiplayer with other people? Is Just you? That's? There was multiplayer in previous versions I don't know if there is in this one of my flight simulator twenty, twenty multi-player. Even like moving traffic and stuff. Yeah is there. Is there the traffic like is there any point you'd have to like just be taxed on the runway waiting I didn't see any ad put traffic, but I was flying low over Austin and other people on the five driving around. So it's it's super will it will bring all the pilots on the planet together in multiplayer that includes virtual pilots and live air traffic from around the world. So, it's going to populate the game with NPC's of real flights going on it looks like it'll be pulling in live data of aircraft currently. In flight in the real world. So you can have whether enlightening be identical to Kirk conditions wherever you're flying and you can also have other planes in the airspace around. That's really cool. Let's. Let's do a video where you and you and I you can fly and we'll go to La from. Austin. What it sounds like. Me John and gus will make a video of us. Just, wanted. I just wanted to be a passenger, go get some peanuts and Ginger Ale. Some people some people have suggested that we should make a video where. Chris flies a plane and I tell them what to do because the black box down. But to remind people, I'm not a pilot like I don't know how to actually. Man I. We should be taxing right now or we should be taking off right now but I couldn't be like hit this button or pull that lever. Maybe Ration-. Really good collaboration would be if we could get a thomas middle ditch he is both a Gamer and actually a real life pilot, Thomas, Miller Schwartz. That whole thing Oh yeah and and and and