20 Episode results for "gency"
BrainStuff Classics: Can Animals Predict Natural Disasters?
"This episode is brought to you by IBM Today. New problems need new. Thinking retailers are turning to the cloud to restock shelves more quickly teachers are working with ai to rethink the classroom. Let's put smart to work see how IBM's helping at IBM DOT com slash Cova. Nineteen welcome to brain stuff. A production of iheartradio. Hey rain stuff. I'M LAUREN WELCOME. And today's episode is another classic from our former host Christian. Sagar this one has to do. With the strange phenomenon of animals seemingly miraculously escaping certain kinds of natural disasters. Do they have a sixth sense about it or do they just make better use of their senses than humans? Favoring stuff it's me Christian Sager. Have you heard about help? Het sometimes go missing just before an earthquake hits or how about in two thousand and four when a soon Nami hit Southeast Asia and killed more than two hundred thousand people but almost no wild animals. And did you know that dogs? Elephants antelopes bats. And even flamingos fled the scene before the wave. Hit even flamingos. Many people assume it's because animals are more attuned to their environment than we are others like the United States Geological Survey Gency say there's no connection between animal behavior and natural disasters. But if there were wouldn't it weren't a closer look think of the impact. It would have if we knew. Animals could predict dangerous natural events now the majority of researchers looking into this art claiming animals have a sixth sense or anything supernatural going on what they do think is that animals make greater use of their senses than we do using these. They react to environmental signals. That we stupid humans. Just don't notice of course different species have varying sensitivity to these fluctuations and most evidence is anecdotal but if animals are aware of natural disasters. Here's how they know. When troubles a-coming most likely animals can hear sounds that we can't especially the infrasonic low pitched vibrations made by earthquakes. Storms volcanoes avalanches and oceans in some studies. Researchers found that these sounds usually lower than twenty hertz make humans uneasy and even nauseous so with their greater spectrum of hearing. It makes sense that animals would perceive these before us as unsettling. If you heard a deep rumbling sound coming at you from a wide angle what would you do to hang out and make sandwiches or would you run for your life? One study that supports infrasonic. Hearing theory happened when Stanley Coren was studying whether dogs suffered from seasonal affective disorder. One day many of his one hundred ninety three tests. Dogs suddenly flipped out. Coren could not figure what was going on until a day later when he noticed that an earthquake struck nearby at a six point eight on the Richter scale after reviewing the results corn found that fourteen of the animals had hearing impairments and these were the dogs that didn't become anxious before the earthquakes looking further. He noticed that dogs with floppy ears were less likely to be agitated than those with perky open ears so it looks like the strength of their sense of hearing was what a tuned the dogs to the earthquakes low tones. Another theory is that through. Their sense of touch. Animals can feel vibrations through the ground or sense shifts. In air or water pressure hurricanes are known to decrease such pressures and scientists have observed that sharks change their behavior when storms cause pressure drops swimming to deeper waters where they'll be protected. Birds and insects also seek cover when this happens. They're also sensitive to something called railay waves. These are minute vibrations that travel through the Earth's crust. These waves are inaudible and traveled ten times the speed of sound which would explain why some animals sense disaster coming sometimes days before it strikes. Now that you've heard the theories. Do you think we should make safety decisions? Based on the behavior of our local animals. Well China did in nineteen seventy five when they evacuated a city before an earthquake hit after its animals showed signs of anxiety that was estimated to have saved thousands of lives. Today's episode was written by Christian and produced by Tyler. Clang for more on this. Lots of other topics visit. How stuff works. Dot Com rain stuff is production of iheartradio more podcasts. Iheartradio the iheartradio APP apple podcasts. Or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Hey Guys Sammy J and I'm so excited to announce that season finale of my podcast with him Jay we have NBA All star and mental health advocate. Kevin love nothing robs us of more human potential than mental. It's so it's like the pandemic that nobody's talking about. We talk about Kevin's journey with his anxiety. Depression and of course his amazing NBA career. Listen to let's be real with Sammy. J on the iheartradio apple podcasts. Or wherever you get your podcast.
CoVid-19: What fear of a pandemic does to our brains
"They all start today's episode. By being honest I get anxious sometimes about my health and about the health of my loved ones. I worry about people getting sick. A lot of us do that and a lot of us. Don't talk about it then. A scary virus takes the world by storm and all of a sudden. Almost everyone is at least a little worried. It might not be enough to make us Canada but it is a constant low level of bad news rattling around in our heads. Can the people who worry anyway? Well as you know if you're one of them or as you might imagine if you're not it can be a lot tougher on Kovic nineteen may be a respiratory disease but before it even gains a foothold in candidate. It's messing with some of our minds and I'll be honest with you again. I think the best way to fight that is with knowledge not knowledge of who has the disease and where they are and how many more cases today but with some information about what all those headlines and numbers. I do inside our heads. So what is the psychology of a pandemic? What happens in our brain when we absorb all of this. And how can we prepare ourselves to keep calm? When it seems like much of the world is close to panicking. I'm George Keith Rawlings. This is the big story. Dr Steven Taylor is a professor of clinical psychology at U B C. He is also the author of a Book. The psychology of a pandemic. Thanks for joining. Dr Taylor Welcome. Can you first just start by answering the question that I think I've been worried about a lot lately. Which is how well is my brain working in the middle of all of this news about cove in nineteen and how outbreaks are inevitable. Because I feel off kilter it's interesting. It's a rapidly evolving situation with a lot of uncertainties and we have vivid media depictions of just recently oh stools depleted of groceries and so forth and we need to Ask Yourself. How accurate is that a depiction of the reality of the situation? So here well is your brain working. Well it's difficult to say because we have a whole lot of information being delivered to us but yet on the other hand great deal of uncertainty about what. The situation is and how best to respond. What happens on a macro level within a community when fears like this start spreading If you're on. The titanic and everyone starts running to the large boats probably not going to think too much about it. You're just gonNA start running as well and that's just sort of a situation where people have started panic buying and all the people have heard about this without giving too much thought and started to copy that same behavior so or macro level. That's what has been happening And so I think it's important for people to consider the impact of their own behavior on other people. Fear is contagious. If people see you acting Afr- way they might become frightened as well. What am I missing there when something like that happens and I see people running to the store or I see images of people buying ca bottles and bottles of water and then I do it to what process am I just somehow not getting. It's the classic marketing strategy where you create a sense of scarcity and Hood Gency and that's been used in marketing to sell US goods but it's also happening here. Nationally with this panic Boeing. So that's what's happening. People are getting the idea that foodstuffs toiletries medicines are scarce and they need to get out urgently and then the situation becomes snow able by vivid images on social media and other media of depleted shows which amplifies the sense of scarcity and then people he'd news reports of price gouging or they've been rare reports of fessel looting those things like a whole thing's toilet paper and that further amplifies the sense of scarcity and urgency and all of those things can amplify purchasing related anxiety. So tell me about some of the mistakes that we do know about and that we've worked to correct and maybe just start even with the name of this virus. Why did we settle on Cove Ed? Nineteen we learned. Mistakes of the past previous pandemics have been cooled things so I flew or Hong Kong flu swine flu. Avian Food needs to be really careful about naming diseases off to people places things because of the full it can have in the case of naming outbreak softer regions. It can create problems with discrimination. You name an outbreak after animals that could lead to needless culling of of livestock and so forth. So you needed name that on the one. Hand conveys the urgency. We called this thing coming. You need to cool A little bit like a really bad flu. That is not going to convey the level of urgency so the public needs to know that this is something to be taken seriously but it can't have any of the fear mongering that leads to discrimination or harm of animals so that was the thinking and I think the label covered nineteen. I think it was a good decision. Is there a similar a line of thinking behind whether or not to use the term pandemic? Because that's been hotly debated recently. I believe so. Yes pandemic the would pandemic Kyle soppe scary images of the Spanish flu with Harrison's holding off bodies with hospitals stacks with sick people so I'm assuming that whol being very careful about whether a win to US would pandemic the problem. There is the diff. There's no firm definition of a pandemic and earned fuzzy vague and health authorities like the. Who they need to have the trust of the public because if the public stuff didn't trust health authorities. They're not going to follow the guard lines and so people. Who they woke refund line between understanding a problem is studying it. It's very difficult and for some people that seem. That seem that the. Who's dragging your feet with regard to whether or not to announce the pandemic so it's A. It's a tricky situation. But many people saying that full intents and purposes this is a pandemic right now but one of the reasons we wanted to talk to you about the psychology behind. This is as I kind of mentioned off the top. I'm one of those people that it doesn't take much to get me worried about my health and the health of those around me so when something like this happens obviously my brain goes into overdrive and one of the things you discusses the the term worried. Well which I'm interested in that's Interestingly I it's the in in some cities are having news announcements on the radio. That if you're feeling sick do not go to the hospital. Do not go to the. Er unless you have to be symptoms This was a problem in the two thousand nine H. One one flu pandemic where there are reports of hospital. Ers being overwhelmed with worried. Well patients thinking they had pandemic flu. When in fact they had. Minor costs the sniffles. And there's a concern that this will happen this time around with call nineteen so someone has cough or fever. Apparent has a CIA. Who has a cough fever like? Might misinterpret that thinking that is an infection recalled the nineteen and take themselves with their child to the ER. Everyone did that for every mile. I omen he would overwhelm the healthcare system So that's a big concern. Now that's not to trivialize anxiety about one's health that's an important issue But it's important that people get educated about the tendency to misinterpret bodily signs. We'll sensations and and and this is gonNA happen with covered. Nineteen people will be misinterpreting coughs. Fevers is signs of possible infection. So they need to be Mindful of that. What is it about a virus like this? That makes us do that. Because again you know I get sniffles and colds. People around me get them all winter and they could easily be misinterpreted as signs of the flu or whatever but it doesn't bother me to the same extent and I think a lot of people feel that way but what it is here is it's unknown. There's no vaccine. It's not even though he's not F- our spread there have been many main factions and many deaths and the other thing is the sheer exposure to news. That people have received about this so if I develop a fever because I've heard so much about covered on the first thing that's going to pop into my mind is oh what if. I'm infected with the current ivars. It's partly it's cooled the availability heuristic. It's partly due to you. Know the amount of exposure. You've had to something right. What about the other end of the spectrum people who because we all know some of them who are just convinced that they won't get it right or if they do they'll be fine equally worrying for different reasons the people who think that won't happen to them or if it does they'll be fine? They're the people who wash their hands. Who WANT SO FOS OSCILLATE? If they're infected they're actually the people who will spread infection to other people and there's been researched from previous outbreaks showing that indeed that does happen and unfortunately these individuals don't understand that although they might not be worried about infection they could be giving infection to people who could become seriously ill as a result. How do you find the proper level of maybe not the proper level of anxiety but the proper level of care to sort of walk that line between overreacting to symptoms but also being aware that you could be infecting others? It's a complex issue It depends in part on your situation. Your own health status the health status of loved ones. You elderly or medically frail than it would be reasonable to be worried about getting infected so it depends on that background situation but we also need to ask yourself well. And my following what the healthcare authorities are recommending or. Am I going overboard or my over responding or am I under responding and people need to ask themselves? How's that affecting Your Life Family members commenting that you seem excessively anxious or irritable about the outbreak and that would suggest Excessive amount of anxiety for example. How much of these thoughts and this worry can or maybe can't Be Mitigated by the way governments and Public Health Officials. Choose to communicate around. This is a really tricky situation because We live in an era where there's two way communication. It's not just governments delivering messages to us. But it's a speeding back messages through social media to other people in our community so challenge. The government's face is one of understating versus other studying. Each one is associated with problems. So it's very difficult particularly when there's a lot of uncertainty about things so warning people encouraging people to engaging protective measures without leading them to become overly anxious. That's great if you can do that. But on the other hand governments need to be seen as transparent they need to acknowledge uncertainties. And then do their many uncertainties around covered nineteen so it may be the case that we the people need to learn to accept their uncertainties in their lives and also learn to recognize that when there are important in people's Lodge Luma's will flourish and the health authorities have done well to address the major rumors but The general community need to be mindful that they will be rumors circulating about covered nineteen and we need to take them with a grain of salt. You know I wanted to ask you a little bit about things That ordinary people can do to kind of work with their worry about this and I know a little bit about cognitive behavioral therapy and and things around that and sort of examining the thoughts that you're you're instinctual impulses come from. I wonder how much of that applies here. Is there ways that people who are concerned about that can work with themselves building out workbooks around managing health things so that you can fun fact we we won some years ago but more specifically for Combat Nineteen? It's important to try and understand your thoughts and reactions. I you just automatically going with what everyone else is saying or stopping to think. What are the realistic risks? What realistically do I need to do? In terms of stockpiling what degree of risk in my will to tolerate in my lauch. And getting on that issue involves something cool. The intolerance of uncertainty and people who have a particular difficulty tolerating uncertainties they likely to worry excessively. They're gonNA panic buying and vice mosque so forth. In that case it can be helpful for people to remind themselves that every single day of the allies they deal with things that follow dangerous at this point in covered nineteen crossing the street or driving in. Your car is probably the most dangerous thing people do and people accept that. So point here is People need to accept that life is full of uncertainties in people do tolerate many uncertainties in their lives and the people will tolerate the learning to cope with the current outbreak. How much of this is exacerbated? By the way social media seems to reward the worst news. Because I know I've been seeing the majority of the coverage that I've been seeing of this. Virus comes from the hardest hit places in the places where hospital beds are stacked up by the dozens. Cetera ET CETERA. Right that's going to skew people's perception of reality. It's always see all these dramatic images of sick people scarcity's and so forth that is going to distort the way we see our own environment in which say in Vancouver tender right now. The risk is extremely low. But if always see these dramatic images that's going to the store after section and lead people to earn the estimate. The degree of threat is perhaps worth for people who are might be battling With this kind of anxiety to take a social media break in sort of rely more on the official news coming from the government or the mainstream outlets yes getting too much. So if you're anxiety is being ramped up often people who are anxious about their health engage. In checking behavior they will check the the media check social media with an attempt to reassure themselves would find themselves fight. Saif but that backfires and they end up feeling more anxious so in those cases it would be a good idea to give yourself a break from health related social media and to mall to what health authorities like the W. like Or Health Canada are recommending. And you can go to their website say. Who FOR EXAMPLE HAS Press briefings every day or two and which they provide authoritative information. If there was one thing that you could maybe have governments or or health authorities take into account in their communications That you're not seeing enough of right now. Is there anything there is? But it's a timing issue. When a vaccine is developed Tsukada nineteen this the big concern that many people and perhaps most people will not get vaccinated and this has happened in previous pandemics. The two thousand nine pandemic in Canada and elsewhere fuel half of the population decided to get vaccinated clearly. Yeah it was worse than other countries and clearly. contain a an outbreak if people aren't going to adhere to vaccination and this is something that's been cold it's been a euphemistic to MBA's cool vaccination hesitancy and in two thousand nineteen W.H. Show declared that of the top ten health. Fritz vaccination hesitancy was one of them. So this is GonNa be a big problem. That's GONNA come up. Maybe later this year and so governments. I would recommend that they get onto this problem early and stop talking. Having the discussion in Public Forum about vaccine the covered nineteen and the importance and start addressing discussing the issues vaccination hesitancy and often people declined to get vaccinated because they don't have correct information older heard about the new debunked link between vaccines and autism from Donald. Yeah so I think. We need to be proactive. And address that problem earlier. Rather than wait till we have a vaccine and have the problem with vaccination hesitancy and finally I guess For somebody WHO's been listening to this podcast and is now about to go on with the rest of their day but is is worried about the Stephan and the mounting uncertainty of one. It's coming in Canada. What's one thing that they should be doing or thinking about as they go forward Full well I guess carrying on as usual as best as you can as usual. Think about this information and some you can does you. Don't WANNA to bigger those of scary information about covered? Nineteen you WanNa stay informed so dosing that but doing your best to carry on with your life and your routine The same as you would normally do including doing what have the stress management activities that you would usually do. Thanks for joining us today. Dr Taylor that was very helpful. Thank you very much. Welcome Dr Steven Taylor author and professor of Clinical Psychology at UB. That was the big story if you'd like more from US including lots of episodes. That WON'T INDUCED PANIC. You can head to the Big Story. Podcast DOT CA. You can also talk to us on twitter if you are not taking a break from bad news on social media at the Big Story F. P. N. We can find us in your podcast. Feed on your favorite player apple or Google or stitcher or spotify. Pick your favorite leave us a rating. Leave us a review. Thanks for listening. I'm Jordan Heath Rawlings. Wash your hands and we'll talk tomorrow.
29 | Higens
"And it wasn't one or two. It was thin tire. Village was coming out onto this street. And I'm running down the middle of it. They were closing in around me when Davin Higgins got into counter intelligence, the twin towers still were standing and the job mostly involved running assets and hotspots as a way of keeping tabs on potential threats. But when he found himself in Iraq in the early days of the war on terror running assets took on gency, he couldn't have imagined before because in Iraq. There always was a ticking bomb somewhere, I hear this loud explosion. I automatically knew what had happened. I knew his abomb. What is true bravery? What makes a hero a hero tested by the worries of what's happening at home, thousands of miles away and the reality of what you're facing here. And now when your life is in danger every second and it's either kill or be killed and original podcast from incongruity media. This is Anthony Russo. And this. Is war? Devin Higgins, left college to join the army in the late nineteen ninety s he already was married, but the demands of work and school meant he didn't see his wife Rebecca that often. So he balked when an army recruiter approached him at first he didn't wanna trade not seeing her much for not seeing her for a year at a time during deployments, but the recruiter short him that the worst case scenario would be a six month stint in the Balkans. So he signed up to be a counterintelligence agent or CI and upon finishing his training moved with his wife to Germany at first. It was just like the recruiter said and in September two thousand one Higgins found himself deployed on a mission in the Balkans would nine eleven happened. I was part of an ad von for K for Wieder at a dock because that's where we were actually going to bring equipment in and out of coastal phone started ringing, and we're like what's going on. There's probably fifteen twenty of us in a bunch of phone started ringing about the same time. And they said there's been a terrorist attack. So my colleague either team. You see I guys there at this time we jump in our car and we'd run back to the hotel. And we watch CNN. We watched the towers fall. We watched the second plane run into the tower. Well, were twenty people we don't have any guns. We don't have anything at all. We don't have any way of protecting ourselves. The Bulgarian military actually come over takeover, the hotel and secure it for us at that time. We get orders. There's a lot of US contractors out there. They come down and say, hey, you guys need to go out and find all that Americans there and tell them where they can go to get if they feel threatened to come to safety where we're at. So we're in the middle of this town wandering around finding all Americans throat telling them where we're at in case, they need some safety. It was kinda crazy to know that we were the people out there trying to gather everyone out we were twenty four twenty five year old kids. I remember driving back to the hotel. And I was thinking his Malaya's has got a reputation. And history of taken over airplanes. This has got to be his blah. And by the time, we got back there things have been kind of clarified and came out that it was out Qaeda. I'm a white guy, and my colleague was Hispanic. So he kind of blended in with the Bulgarian people. But they knew I was American. So whenever I stepped into a hotel or things like that all eyes turn to us Higgins had a knack for developing local sources, he was good at working with translators and making connections and introductions as a way of creating kind of information stream or information infrastructure that he could put to good news. As Afghantistan was about to kick off Higgins was helping the air force coordinate logistics, putting them in touch with people who could get their bombers refuelled as the war on terror prepared to get underway. But by the end of two thousand and three he and his family were back and forth. Collins they were going to start their new lives there when he got the call after only thirty days back in the US Higgins was bound for Iraq and his duty stace. Was stands out for me. The most is the way I viewed people in Iraq. I went into Iraq with the mindset that if you're not helping me your hindering me, you're going in with pure authority. There wasn't any local police. There wasn't a local city government or anything like that. We were everything. And so I go into if a raid, and if the guidance or my question has came up we're taking him back to my detention center, and I'll have more time within there. I didn't have to ask any permission. It was my option and that kinda sorta power can become intoxicating you have complete control of this guy. He doesn't do anything without your, okay? If you do not check yourself, then you can get out of control. If you wanna get intelligence you have to give him the right motivation to talk to you torturing someone. Isn't getting intelligence. They will tell you whatever you wanna hear to stop that pain. It doesn't increase our mission. At all you've got to go in there with a specific goal and go towards that information the process, generally would go like this Higgins would accompany guys out on patrols when they cleared houses. He would interrogate the people they've found sort of any paperwork and see if there was anything promising. His approach was simple, given the patrols were happening. Anyway, they may as well be pointed. So we often tried to provide command with an actionable lead to start today, and from there, sometimes they would get more Intel to use his hope was as simple as plan catch bombmakers and discover weapons caches, but in the early days of the war knowing whom to trust could be a real problem. I'm always suspicious of someone that is kind of working with us. I always hung out within terp enters when we hired local nationals at the bazaars and stuff I hung out there because I knew those way our insider threats we hired. A bunch of interpreters right off the street. We didn't have any those are the only ones we could find we weren't prepared to go entire hack. So anyone that spoke English and Arabic. We hired. I did the screening on them. And eventually I caught one for giving information to the insurgency. And then I got another one I sent him to add a grave after a while. I started name I'm like, you're going to be three four five and six and eventually sooner or later, I think I ended up catching six out of the eight that we hired right there. This one interpreter he was screening people that were supposed to come directly to us. He was taken pitchers of all of us. I've been building this case for a long time. But because this interpreter was such a good friend of the command element. He was there interpreter I had a really walked lightly on how I was going to approach this. If I make his life miserable. He's gonna make my life miserable. So how do I tell him that his interpreters handing information off to the? Bad people, and we need to take him in for interrogation. The best political solution was to highlight the threat in his reports and have that threat removed from above commander to commander before anything bad happened. So that's what he did navigating rock in those early days was a real problem because it was money to be had it wasn't unusual for interpreters to play both sides against the middle. And there was little choice. Americans had Higgins needed interpreters. Everyone was conducting vetting process at breakneck speed for him. The easiest thing to do was to watch them closely and to make it clear that the benefit of working with the Americans had a million more upsides than taking their money and then spying on them. I was at the city hall, and I was talking to this real douchebag. I mean, I hated him. And if I would have stuck around a little bit longer than I probably would have had him back in my held in facility. But he was like the city planner, and we were just setting there talking NASA. Now, there's no problems here. This. Is a good city. There's no insurgency by took my body armor off and my helmet off. And just kind relaxing their listened to be s this guy went on for about five minutes. How great this city is and an RPG hit right behind as it broke the class and stuff so spread all over us. And I I lost it. I grabbed my helmet, and I swung. It hit middle of his desk. I broke whatever was on there. And then we walked out at that point Siab's had a an e seven that was an arranger as I just differed everything to him. I go running out there with my team. He's like, hey, I need to take that corner. You take the specialists in he had a saw. So we went over there and secure that corner the compound, and I'm looking up, and I see all these buildings that over there over us. And I was like man if there's anything up there were dead, and they go chasing the people at the PG, and that was kind of the problem with being account intelligence officer. After the invasion Higgins, sometimes was attached to armed elements. And sometimes he wasn't when he wasn't there always was a looming danger of being out there and small parties. Like the wondering this attack striking that balance though between the big or small group was mission specific sure, but also it was opportunity specific, and when you guessed wrong, you could be caught out all on your own with only interpreter you hoped that you could trust. In addition to coming along on raids and patrols Higgins would go out with the command element when they were visiting local officials, he would cut a deal with whichever commander was going out saying that he would take care of whichever reports needed writing and provided an extra interpreter and exchange for being allowed to tag along the commanders mostly were checking in on government officials to see what 'rational or logistical support the US could provide but Higgins already knew that the officials were way more interested in the support. They could get than any information. They could give the local police chief is going to give you the party line. But it's not him that I really wanna talk to because I don't want the party line. I want the truth. And so while they're in they're talking with the local police, I'll kind of just step out. And I talked to the secretary he's on the here's all conversation. He's the one that knows everything. And that's the person I wanna run when in there and talked to and I kind of said, hey. I'm looking for information on this. And he says I work for you now. And I was like, that's right. His village, by the way, every time we went in there. We knew something bad was going to happen that these guys hate us. And so he's like, hey this house right here. This guy is a bad guy. Next time we came back. We ended up cord on inserting the entire village Higgins, eventually caught a ride with an element that was heading out to the police secretaries home village MS some special forces guys on the way who are on a ten gentle mission. He got the heads up from them that they'd been looking into a house in that neighborhood as well. It wouldn't take him long to confirm everyone suspicions. But by that time, there wouldn't be much could do about it. And it was just my translator. I at this time. So we ended up going talked into this house and the security was right next to this house. So I tell the the soldier there say I'm going in this house if you guys pull out just yell at me, and I'll move with you go in there. And I. Star talking to these guys and they point out the same house. And I'm there for fifteen minutes. I'm like man, this is Ben kind of long time what's was going on. So I look out the window, and there's no security the soldiers gun shit. I'm here by myself with my translator. And my translator is old and fat. I get around the corner and they're God. I can't see any of them. And I'm in this town in this town that would probably rather chew me than talk to me. They were just coming out of the houses and on the sidewalk, and it wasn't one or two. It was thin tire. Village was coming out onto the street. And I'm running down the middle of it. They were closing in around me. And as time progressed they were slowly getting closer and closer to me. And I was like man if they bum rush me, I'm done. There's no way I can stop them all out get one or two of them. But then I'm I'm captured. I I don't know what I do. And I read enough stuff and seen enough. Videos that I knew I didn't wanna be captured. I can't let them get too close. So I'm shoulder my web and waving around making sure these guys get outta my way they keep on getting closer. I see a home v and his probably about two three hundred meters away. And I was like men. All right. Let's do a three round bursts. If I can get their attention as like man, if I do it three round burst. They may think I'm engaging and turn around and unload on me. That's not a good idea. I don't want to be killed by fratricide either. So they pull off and all right. Second plan. I'm going to get up to the main road. I'm going to stop whatever we Hickel. I see. And I'm going to have him drive me to the police station. I'm gonna grab my source and at this point Burnham, it's my life or there's so I and I'd get him and have him take me back to the fob. And then we get up to the main road, and I see the convoy it's all lined up. And so I'm running I'm like just because I see him doesn't mean they're not gonna take off. I'm running to catch up with it. They finally see me. They don't take off. And I step. Into the home V, and they take off that was one of the scariest moments over there. I thought for sure I was going to be that guy burning sources and something Higgins took lightly, especially since it was tantamount to taking out a contract on a person. But sources often were in at least as much for the money for the cost. Oftentimes a lot more. He was perfectly happy to have gotten a GPS reading on the house and Senate up the ladder for future raid consideration, but he was much more. Happy to have been spared. The tough decision of revealing one of his sources sometimes though sources reveal themselves out of greed or stupidity or bit of both. And there's just nothing for it. But to step away and try not to get caught up in the blowback. So there's a lot of different people out there that are trying to find information and run sources and things like this. And this one guy I turned him over to a different agency and the kept on coming back east started going all over the place asking for money. And this is like man, you're gonna get yourself kill. He was seeing some other places just being loud and wants money. I told him not to come see me ever again. It was probably about a oh two weeks later. He ended up calling us and saying, hey, they're here. They're gonna kill us coming protect us. So I go down to the talk. And I was like, hey, can you run a patrol through here, and we didn't have a patrol anywhere in the area from what I heard they ended up throwing grenades through the house and stuff like that. He was injured. You gotta understand. I can't go out by myself. There's no way one humvee is going to be let out of the fab once you start playing multiple fiddles end up making a lot of noise, and sooner or later, you're gonna get caught. And that's what happened to him. You do your best to protect them. But he was his own worst enemy. That's what we don't want in a source. We don't want someone that's loud and invincible and willing to do their own thing. And that's why I kinda cut ties with him over the course of his tours as army counterintelligence Higgins saw. Both the long game and the short game when it came to fighting the insurgency at an operational level. Of course, there's nothing better than killing capturing insurgency, Taliban, or Al Qaeda leaders, but continued harassment was a close second disruption was among the most effective weapons in his arsenal. I've been chasing this guy for probably about six months leaves a bomb maker. I had a source that came out and said, I know where he's at he's at this house. I when talked to the commander, and I said, hey, if we want this guy, we gotta go. Now, we go hauling ass out there. We get to his house, then they stack they go in there and they start clearing the house while they're clear in the house. I'm stepping out in the courtyard, and they've got this big concrete wall around and there's the gate that we went in there. That's open. So while they're cleaning the house that my interpreters with them looking for documents. And and getting people out of the house. There's little kids and female size. Like men we missed him. And then some guys stuck his head through the gate. I was like what the hell. No one's. Going to stick their head through my gate. So I grabbed him and I slammed him up against the wall. And I have him send their and I only know a little bit of Arabic while I'm doing this. Another guy sticks his head through the gate. And by the time, I was done. I had four these people up against the wall and a have all their documents. My interpret comes out we ask a little bit more. It was one of those things do I keep them for just look into the gate or not. So I take pictures of them. I'll go and talk to another source and see what who they are. And things like that. We missed our target. We're like, oh, man. We missed our target. So he ended up going back. I call it my source, and and my se wasn't there and my source met me, and I showed him. Hey, I was like, hey, I just took pictures of these guys looking in the house is like that third guy that's solely on. I was like son of a bitch. I had him in my hands. He's there now. So we raised down there again to get him. And this is we're talking about fifteen minutes from time we left and by the time, we got down there. They're only kid. There we missed in completely. I'll I'll regret that. I'll never forget that guys named owed Suliman, and I chased him the rest of my tour their found out. He was up in Mosul working at the factory up there as a taxi driver. So I passed that information up to the guys up there. I hope the they got the guy sometimes a loss as a loss, but sometimes it can be salvaged. Remember counterintelligence relies as much on the long game. As it does the immediate reaction to fresh Intel more than anything else. It's putting together scraps into a larger picture that allows you to act Higgins said his main concern, always was to do whatever he was able to make US forces a little bit safer, but that also required patients the willingness to cultivate, sources absorb the little defeats and learn from them and then do your best going forward. Even when learning from your mistakes doesn't feel sufficient you take your wins where you can get them that way, you can keep the pressure on my source came out said, hey, I can positively. Identify these these people. So I go and talk to ten Colonel. Like, hey, we've got a plan. We've gotta get out to this village. But if we go rolling out in tanks, we shake the earth. They'll know we're coming, you know, from twenty miles away. We can't do this. I was like we got some eighty second guys here. Less fast rope them in cut off the city. So that we can get in there and get these guys, and they shot my ided down the they didn't wanna do that. So we jumped in tanks and tanks and Bradley's and everything else that rumbles as we go along, and we're driving out there. And I look out there and the burning tires size like son of a bitch. They know we're coming. We get out there. We cord on the the little village, and we move in our targets gone, but we end up they're finding rockets sniper rifles. We find the little yellow in LAN pamphlets. I mean, we didn't catch him. But we took out his entire. Armory? We had minds we had all sorts of different ide- materials from an operational perspective Higgins was on a two part mission. The first was to run sources with name and undermining the insurgency leadership and discovering weapons caches and bomb-making facilities. The other part was trying to reduce the number of insurgents who could infiltrate the nascent Iraqi police force and building police force from the ground up in hostile territory already is a very difficult task logistical issues aside, it was kind of like hiring interpreters at the beginning of the war. Experience told him it was easier to ferret out turncoats afterwards than it was to prevent them from getting in the first place, but the insurgency didn't want to just undermine the rule of law. It wanted to prevent localities from even having police departments which was a problem beyond the counterintelligence scope, we're Intel afar, and we were over at the police station and we're doing our screening. We're there for the week. So we're in our second date or so there's a big gaggle of them out there waiting to come in to be screened, and we don't let them set by our Frank gate. They were out, you know, forty fifty yards from our front gate, and I hear this loud explosion. I automatically knew what had happened. I knew as bomb within seconds Higgins through on his body armor and grabbed up to end fighting interpreters still not dressed headed out to the gate prepared to deal with whatever attack was coming. But when he got there it was way worse than he had worried. Was a two thousand five Iraqi elections looming. It already had been a really violent week in the region. This was the second suicide bombing in as many days and would be the beginning of an escalation of violence in Iraq. That would continue to feature attacks on police police recruits as he made his way out into the courtyard Higgins's primary concern was to make sure the rest of the compounds secure. I'm looking around and there were no guards at the gate. We take fighting position right there and men the gate, and then the medics run out and a couple other people run out there to help with the wounded, quite frankly at that point. I was more concerned about a secondary attack coming through the gate and killing everyone inside we're probably there for a minute two minutes at the most until more people arrived. And then we ran out there is it's weird. What your mind remembers when we were running out there? It's not like in the movies where you'd have people just screaming. And and crying and things like that. That's not how it was. They were moaning you. Just see these little movements of moaning and stuff. It was. It was weird. I remember thinking why am I not getting any traction? Why am I slipped and all over the place? I know I'm in San, but why am I slipping and I looked down and I'm stepping on flesh slip on human body parts as I'm trying to get out to that's one of the one of the things that you just try to forget Higgins kept moving toward the epicenter of the carnage. The chaos continued swirling around him though with evacuations. It was starting to back down a bit. His job wasn't security though, nor was it medical evacuation. His job was to see what he could find out about the explosion and see whether it could be traced back to any of the bombmakers. He was already hunting. So we get out there and the medics have these people on stretchers already taken in as body. Parts or just all over the place. And this one guy starts walking towards me. And all you know, we're amped and everything like that. So I showed her my eighty two and I'm like, I'm yelling at him to stop. Of course, it's an English. So he doesn't understand. So I'm start using my air bacon. I tell him to stop and get down and stuff like that. It was probably, you know, within a second or two that I was going to start unloaded on this guy. And he's he stops. He gets down. And by that time. I my interpreter gets out there. And I start asking was going on. And he tells me that his family was in that group has brothers his father and his uncle's, and he pointed to mall, and they're like, they're all dead. He's like the only reason I am alive is because I was tired and I sat down we ended up finding the face of the guy. That was a suicide bomber it's weird because his head popped off and his job was gone. But his. Face was still there. The top of his skull was all there, and we were able to take pictures of him and send it forward of who. The suicide bomber was the bomb killed thirty applicants and injured. Another forty mostly men just standing in the sun hoping for the opportunity to become cops in an increasingly lawless area. The face gave them something to go on too often in the intelligence game. It can be a futile chase. When a big part of your job is trying to prevent these things from happening to try and follow. These threads of information to a place that keeps suicide vests off the backs of people learning to use them. It can be especially frustrating Higgins, seriously had considered making the army as career he loved doing counter intelligence, but the grave scandal broke about halfway through his first deployment. And that kind of changed things. One of the toughest parts of it for him. Right. From the beginning was knowing that people he sent there because he suspected they had vital information. Never really got a good chance to give up the Intel. What can you do? I'm name quite sure how to describe this. You work so hard to get the Intel and because you wanna give the lion Eunice the best intelligence possible. But they they work against you almost it wasn't like the army was working for the army if they weren't there. Helping me out they were just hindering us grave was a horrible thing. I will never say that grave was great. It didn't enhance anything for us. It hindered us it made people hate us even more if they would have done it correctly. They'd be looking for intelligence and not being seduced bastards. After a while. They came down on interogations quite hard hit everyone of us that did any kind of tactical questions or interogations were like, well, what can we do? Do now for us to do a proper interrogation sometimes that takes time. But we don't have that time we have fourteen days with them or sometimes even less, but it may take fourteen days to actually build a report with a guy. And then you just have so many of them if you use fourteen days on one that means you're not talk into fifty others. So when we sent it to the next level, that's where they have more time and then grave if someone goes Daba grave, and they're doing this and not actually looking for intelligence almost throw your hands up in the air and say, what can you do the response from inside the army was ham handed and missed the point they were looking at their house in order shore. But just as with the plan to invade but not secure translators in advance the way they approached it was scattershot and with predictable results after Abu Ghraib. Basically what happened is that anyone that had any kind of connections with Intel? Negations or detention operations, see ID came and talk to you. They treated you like a common criminal. And that was another thing that just kinda spurred me to get out of the military. Is you want me to do a job? But then you treat me like a common criminal for doing. You asked me to do job. You set my parameters I follow guidelines. I do you ask of me. And then you treat me like this. I love my country. I still wanted serve my country. And so I ended up going down to four watch hookah. I was an instructor down there at the school house, hopefully trying to give the next generation of C. I and humid collectors enough information that they can come out and be successful in the filled. I ended up getting a job in law enforcement. And so I I'm serving my country in a. Different capacity, dealing with sources turncoats and crooked. Politicians can take a real bite out of your humanity. Not just your ability to trust. But your ability to believe that there's even such a thing as altruism that nobody does anything unless there's a reward or a punishment attached. But Higgins carries with him. One of the great kindnesses soldier can receive a reminder that for the people at home. What he does really mean something we walked off the plane, and they just had a line of people share us on end tell you Steffan into Stephan on US soil is the best feeling in the world. That was back when cell phones weren't as prevalent, and when you did get a cell phone you paid by the minute. This one guy picked me out of everyone said, hey, here's my cell phone. Call her family. And I'm like, I sure I mean, I don't wanna use up your minutes or anything like Kali family. Able comma wife tell him. And here nervous peon, Mike country. It was it was quite special. And then I found it was like, here's here's your MAC. I didn't wanna use your minutes is like take all the time. You want? So it caused by. Told her safe. It's home. And. That guy. I don't know his name. I can pick him out of him from Adam. But he's my hero everyone joins and serves for their own reasons. But what they have in common is the knowledge that there are those of us who respect the ideal the sacrifice that begins with putting up your hand and swearing to protect your country because we all know how many different endings that beginning can have. And we know that they know and that they do it. Anyway. Next time on this is war running out there we fill the machine gun around skipping through like the side of our legs. Like over our heads. Like, it's nuts. Are you a combat veteran or do, you know one with a story to tell reach out to us at stories at this is war dot com with your dates and branch of service, and a brief description of the experience that you'd like to share. This is war was written by me, Anthony Russo and produced by incongruity media, if you like to show you can help support us by visiting our sponsors or by leaving a five star review wherever you're listening right now, you can also follow us on social media at this is war. You also can find show notes photos and more background on each episode at this is war dot com.
The visual imagination of Steve McQueen
"Hello and welcome to this april twenty twenty podcast from on diplomatic. My name is george. Mela and my guest on this program is john bird who is an artist. Writer curator emeritus professor of art in critical theory at middlesex university and the apron edition of the paper john rights by the artist and filmmaker steve mcqueen who had a major retrospective at tate modern in london until the gallery was suddenly closed because of covid nineteen mcqueen who turned fifty last year had an immensely successful career by any measure since winning the turner prize in one. Thousand nine thousand nine for his early explorations of the moving image. He's gone on to direct four feature films the most recent widows and twenty eighteen and and twenty fourteen twelve years a slave for which he received the oscar for best picture becoming the first black recipient of that award but mcqueen has by no means abandoned the gallery for the movie theater as you'll hear and has his recent exhibition showed before we got onto that. I asked john to fill in some background about mcqueen's korea before the nine thousand nine hundred nine prize. He was an all student. He was a chelsea first of all chelsea school of art and then he went onto goldsmiths college university of london in the beginning of the nineteen nineties student at goldsmiths from ninety to ninety. Four as you know the goldsmiths is the school that is most closely say. Cat who became known as the y. b. as young british artists it produced quite of quite a few including damien. Hirst so he comes out of a background of officials practice. He became interested in photography and film and video work at school and that became his medium expression. I think for quite a lot about at that period of the early nineties late eighties and early early nineties. It wasn't just the film and video offered to some extent to come different way. Don't for a new way of working. It was a break with the more traditional pass activities of painting sculpting so. He did that. He had a brief period in new york. Where east of the university. But then he. He's interesting that he's work was picked up actually really quite early on. I mean i think not only when he was college but very soon afterwards in in the early nineties he was in a way noted as one of the most original most interesting students coming out of that that goes miss background and he started making black and white videos one particularly which is cool bad which is nineteen ninety-three where he filmed himself naked wrestling with another nude male. And in a way that very early work indicated i think themes that were occurring throughout his practice because it is the the black male body and mail buddy which is the focus and has been the focus of his practice throughout over the years and is also course that interest in in the body and the body in extreme states. You know the exhaust general violence or eroticism is in a way of kind of signature style. You so another work deadpan. Which i think is probably one of his best known works. because he's also quite amusing. He took a bus. Keaton stunt where keating stands and look house collapses around him and his left standing a hamstring. Forty in the position where the open window is mcqueen repeats that so you also think through his practice get a constant reference to send them all those one of the film's In the in the exhibition a coup charlotte where he. It's a ten minute film of the actress. Charlotte rampling with steve. Mcqueen is stroking her face with his fingers and they're kind of coming very close to the eye that tracing the i lead the eyelashes and at one point actually who might seem to make contact with the eyeball and of course if you know about film then that's gonna make a connection to welles film Sheyanne onto do a slitting of the eyeball so there is that dialogue that goes on. I think which of course is the case with any artist. This all comes out of all influence will always find its way through into practice. But we steve I say there is a constant reference to both mainstream but also independent cinema and new in them all in preparation for talking to you today. John i was looking at some some interview material that steve mcqueen had done through the years and i saw him talking about back in the early days of syncing furstration about being unable to make feature films. I was quite surprised at that that even even quite early on in his career. I had always seen the use of film in the art gallery. It's been quite a sort of separate demane from the making of feature films. And perhaps i was my perception but to hear him. Enunciate that rather surprised me. Well i think in a way significant that he did say that. And i think significant that he's one of the very few to filmmakers who has made that step through into mainstream cinema. I'll use of film and video is quite different to filmmakers where different aspects oh the kind of materiality of film i mean has it to. Dean is another artist. I guess who comes to mind Who i think in some respects is similar to stephen her interest in the materiality of film yes and the process but is somebody who i don't think will she hasn't really tried to step into mainstream cinema and i'm not sure she'd be that interested in doing it. I think. steve. I was probably offensive. You have a much bigger audience. It's a very different audience. Yes and i mean that suggests that he yeah that there was a strong desire on his part to reach an audience and beyond that to communicate a message that is pushing things too far to see him as having a sort of sense of of something he wants to get across to mainstream. I don't think is an artist with an agenda right And i think his film the narrative very much comes out of the process of working with the material to some extent. I mean obviously not entirely. Because if you do go into mainstream cinema then narrative is pretty importance. You know you need to engage in. Hold your vote for for you know a particular period of time but even those films i mean with with hunger the very very long sequence of bobby sands in the jail talking to the priest and ninety is all happening in a way and that seems to me that very much an artist take on the kind of almost like a soliloquy or two personnel was like conceptual art work. In fact. i think you get it a bit. In twelve years a slave as well the kind of interaction between the characters particularly in the kind of violence that goes on. There's almost a sense of what happens to bodies come together in a confrontation sure. Of course they are carefully scripted. And i don't think he's somebody light. I know ken loach somebody like that. Who who just you know. More or less allows actors to improvise. I think he's pretty tolerant torio in his role but it still you know if we create this what will happen. And that's very much the kind of sense that you get you know with the with the autism films yes experimental in that sense even when he is apparently working in the mainstream. There's something remember that scene in in hunger way. It's a fixed camera for. I think a good thirty minutes and there's something mesmerizing and rather fearless on the part of the filmmaker. Isn't that yeah no absolutely so. I think you know the if you know about all his films in the kind of you know over the last twenty thirty years And you see mcqueen major movie one of the four movies Then i think you do get a sense of this is visual artist. Who's making a film at the same time being because he is an artist. Who is able to deal with the mechanics of mainstream cinema. Are you'll you all carry it along by by a very powerful narrative of course yes and so not not a toll contemptuous of narrative. This may just be my prejudice. But i often get the impression that video installations and art galleries don't really have a great deal of interest or time for narrative. I think it depends on the mak- i very much depends on the make but i think you can get a great deal of film and video. His film video work over the last sort of thirty years. Or so. you know which doesn't It doesn't convey that Gency that movement. That doesn't even seem to be that much interested in the measles and things like that it's more or less. It's almost like conceptual out in front of the camera. But yes he's his difference in that. That was the case. I think even with his you know with these early films. I mean he. I started introduced found in the late nineties where he was rolling these tin drums around st new york And you get the sound of the rolling drum coming through but and he had this you know he has an exhibition Leon the i see a of Kind of mini retrospective. Which was very early really. I mean you know still still relatively young in terms of a major major career given what he's achieved in spirit and looking at a piece like western deep which is in show that that's been at the tate modern into until it was closed because of the coronavirus design. There is a very important part is a descent into the deepest gold mine in the world. And i guess it's imaginable to have it as a silent film but when you hear the signed the rumble is in the squeaks and the the machinery it's a very very powerful part of the whole impression that makes isn't it it. May it does do that and it is. I mean i think. I taught in the piece about his very confess phenomena logical filmmaker that he's very interested in the tactility of seeing and you get that particularly western deep because when it's blown up from you know super eight to the large screen then you'll very also aware the pixel ation and you have to strain really both in terms of sound in terms of vision to kind of make out what's happening. These murky figures kind of emerging out out of the darkness. And the way in which the the soundtrack subtly goes silent as they stagger around and they stop again. So you you you know you do identify. Think very powerfully with the claustrophobia. The experience of going down you know over two miles in this cage to work the coal face to extract the oil. You know. I almost sort of felt your hands. Switching the hinge of seeing too. Because you're sort of on the edge of your seat looking looking at the the the image and it's yes i mean. It is a body experience as well as you know a a sort of the visual experience and again you've got bodies of mainly black men in a precarious place play an environment. Which is which is threatening which is hostile to them. Yes it's a place of restraint you know they They are entrapped in that. And the course behind. It is the whole complex. History of colonialism sexually goes to wise people do certain jobs and new though i mean in a way that's why i think he doesn't have an agenda. I mean i think an artist who was more interested in you know the kind of in the old various political message would have gone into that mall whereas i think with mcqueen to some extent you have to work it. You have to work to get the movie to get the to get the narrative but you also in a way to work through the different layers rule there because they're in in the narrative there in the missiles and van in the different component parts of the image at anyone sort of moment on the screen. But you have to kind of uncover it. You have to pick it apart. So saying he doesn't have an avert agenda is it is nonetheless possible to say that there are recurrent things which fired his imagination as a as a filmmaker i And i think we've touched on them. I think certainly you know that the that history history of the slave trade. What paul gilroy refers to as the black atlantic of the incarceration oppression and violence downto- to the body. I think those are very much there and of course that's twelve years. A slave is is the most obvious example of that. But i think also the ideas you know both the extreme of of bodily sensation. You know everything from. I said the early the two figures wrestling where you feel the tension the weight of the body sweat coming off the bodies the way in which one is trying to you know sort of throw the other one that sort of sense of interlock figures you get it with the touch of show rambling on the You get it with the The physicality of western deep. I mean you even get it in the you know the sort of something. Well of course in the one of of marcus who shoots his brother where you'll faced with this skull. This recumbent figure where the camera is placed shooting directly onto the the skull which is the head which is filling the screen with the skull. Going across it. you're constantly thinking. How did that happen what. What was the pain that was involved in doing that. How did he come out of it. Life how do i relate this to. The story is being told about the accidental. You know act that ends ends alive. So i think yes i mean. There are definite themes or a definite tropes definite images almost repeat but i think the body in pain the body of the body and pleasure of central to to his practice. Do you think that that steve mcqueen himself makes no distinction between his more mainstream cinema. And the films that you see in galleries. Does he see it as all of a piece. Or how does how do you know. He would characterize these different modes that he works. And because it's clear from what you're saying the recurrent themes and approaches in in. Both i think from you know from looking at the work. I don't think it's a complete disconnect in any means. I don't think it's a matter of saying okay. You know use project of making a hollywood movie. And that's what i'm gonna be alright and then now you know got an exhibition coming up. I'm gonna make three films. I think is like that tool. An i think so i would imagine An one could probably if you really studied the where you could see how the experience of mainstream cinema benfica's back into the making of this film. It's a two way process. I mean any kind of practices. The same person doing it. I think that also they're very different kinds of activities. You know an artist films. Even you know kind of quite big budget films. I someone thinks if somebody like bill viola. You know doing some some of his films. It's mostly a person with a camera and the subject you know you may use. The kind of others may help the sound technician. He's going to basically. That's what it is once. You're into mainstream cinema. You know a team. It's a big big team and you are part of that and you take you know mu- very much a kind of overseeing director or role rather than the intimate makers role that. I think you get us an artist. Making film made an oscar winning film even before you and the oscar. There's a lot of money riding on. Isn't it there said there are people who feel very much that they need to have a view on what you're putting out. Yeah yeah very much. So and i think equally full for women for you know like Tests the black filmmakers. Easter always been a tough cool. So you're up against those things as well. I mean i think. Certainly the fact that he'd won the turn. He had that reputation as you know as an artist who could do you know major projects that would have helped but even so he still a huge jump to go from that to you. Know a big budget. Production john before we finish. I want to talk by it. An exhibition which was running at the same time as the tate. Modern one which was on a tight. Britain is called year three. And there's a little bit different from the film projects we've been talking. Can you say something about that. And how you sort of see it fitting into mcqueen's is different. He spent a year with assistance going around london schools both in and great great to london school primary schools to take photographs of children in year. Three which is basically children who around about eight years old He said he chose that age. Because that's the point at which an anyone who's had children will no. This is the point at which children are starting to in a way separate from the intimacy of the family and stop to encounter the baroda world. It's like their horizons. The beginning to change the intention really was to investigate the diversity of one of the world's great capital cities through his children. And that is the thing i mean. They're all things. I think one could say about the last. I mean he's at the tape britain rather than tate modern It occupied the galleries. Which all the major galleries on the ground floor. In in britain it's photographs displayed in great form throughout the whole of of of the being galleries. in that respect they're all things about it but i think also make reference to aspects of contemporary conceptual photography. I mean you think of the role of the greed in contemporary art. You think of People like bernard hill. Becker who did those endless series of shots of jones industrial sites. Things like that so it has those kinds of connections there but it is about these children and their everything from quite smooth groups to large groups. Mostly they have a teacher or a couple of teachers and assistance in the group summer in school uniform summer just in you know the the everyday clothes that facing their face to camera so they engage with you. It's stacked high because know seventy six thousand reduce. There is an awful lot of pictures. But it's adult kim and the diversity over london. I think it is a powerful powerful statement. And i think it's a hopeful statement. You know what is the utopic side. -education education is for everyone and when it comes down to you know group of kids eight years old and a cloth. The potential is there and they all the same. It is a remarkable work. I say i don't think it's great art. In the way in which i think some of his other works so i think there will always stand say you know the cliche the test of time but i think as an imaging of londoners a truly cosmopolitan city from his youngest attack inhabitants. It is a wonderful look. Do you see the the infants of mcqueen everywhere. Not so obviously I think off to this exhibition more so because bear in mind. I say his last exhibition with the in the nineties the so we're major exhibition with quite a long time on for that. The are a lot of Students who of course have continued to going to investigate the moving image either through film or video now increasingly of course through the digital media. I mean have some students. Whom is you know. The digital media is the area to go if you want to work with the moving image in a way. That's a tough for future historians to plot the queen's influence but there's no doubt that he has had an influence and serve me as a wide public and and he's been able to reach through his step over into mainstream cinema a very very large audience so i would hope that people who have seen is main films might well don't know but anyway might have been encouraged to wonder what else is done and similarly those who you know just know him as an office filmmaker. Would i be better check out. These moves to there is a huge amount to explore some very rich body of practice. I was talking to john bad about his article. In the april twenty twenty edition of le monde diplomatique and titled looking without blinking. John's article is also available in the website at monte plus dot com. If you're a subscriber you can read every edition of the paper going back over twenty years as well as exploring other resources such as maps images the podcast archive and online exclusive content. And if you're not yet a subscriber this plenty of content online to entice you to become one and full details on how to go. Buy it in the words of the late. John birja why redel. Md to make sense of what's happening in the world behind the misinformation. I hope you'll join me again next month for another interview with one of our contributors and tell them thank you very much for listening and good evening.
TSS195_Building Your One-Page Strategic Plan
"Before we get started. I just wanted to make a quick shout to Dimitri Illinois of who left us a five star Google review. He said recently discovered the world of podcast for myself and chemicals, the Sasha all of a sudden my car trips between jobs have become more productive and more enjoyable having listened to a few other podcasts. Love the format of the such perfectly structured with lots of actionable advice from the professionals. Unlike many other podcasts pointless chitchat is kept to a minimum. And that does a good job of helping the kiss stay on topic. I'd like to see more Ozzy based guests on the show and a water variety of industries. Like, that's interesting of just sent you. A message actually Dimitri here. What topics you'd like to he? I'm very open to those ideas. So thank you very much for feedback guys. If you've got the lead review, please go ahead and do so I will read it out before the podcast as I have done with the trees. Anyway, it was Trump brought in hoping Joe this one. Hello, ladies and gentlemen. Boys and girls. Welcome back to two bucks. Talks on these such podcast. You're joining us today. Four pot one of the scaling your business from five hundred thousand dollars to five million dollars series. We've missed any curve from BT academy all the way lovely Canada. This is episode one eighty titled building your one page strategic plan folks, if you lock what he's been talking about you in the podcast. He has very very generously left behind not one not two not tan, but stacks of useful resources for you guys to go and get held off through our resource page. Now, the Linke's the Sasha dot com forward slash resources, and as a whole bunch of useful free freebies in there for you to get hold of also if you had of course to the show tonight's for these episode, they will also be a link to that day as well. You can get hold Danny as well through the show notes day. There's a link to he's calendar book, we have a chat with him and. Thoroughly encourage you guys to check out the stuff the BT academy doing because they are absolutely fantastic. And you might enjoy episode one. And I'll look forward to hearing your comments. Today's podcast has been proudly brought to you by treaty with guys try to whip God's work with tradespeople only on their websites and marketing solutions to help them stand out from the competition. Everything from web design through to SEO, search engine marketing content creation United McCoy's. It is a customized solution for tried vice organizations, and it's fantastic head across the treaty. Webb guy's at dot com. Dot AU Ford slash apply. Fill in the form. Let's have a conversation. It'll be the best thing you could possibly do to kick. Start two thousand nine hundred and the right way. Giving tried easing contractors around the globe the tools to run a modern business. You're listening to toolbox talks from the sought shed. Now, he's your host Matt joins. Hello, everybody. And welcome back to walk talks on these such odd casts. Your joining me today or thirst pot or by four part series, actually on conducting. We my man deniger from beta kademi over in Canada. Danny welcome back to the shar ban. Thanks for having me. Danny. You have been on this show previously. We did a really cool series called the top three mistakes the tribunal's Mike that was very well received. And in that in that series. We talked about attracting the raw talent we talked about lack of focus on gross profit margin. We talk about our housing Tom correctly. And today we're coming back with walking ballots will verse by the series. I'm scowling new business from five hundred to five million. That's kind of what you guys do. I've there with with. Now, we did a similar series in for anyone that's interested in these sub definitely go check out the series all Dade with for propagate, which was episode one seven on one. One eighty one which was had one or three million Bill is I don't think it'd be very complimentary. And in these episode, we've going to be talking specifically about building you'll one strategic plan which ties in beautifully to Ulsan book that I'll just read on it. If you have this Denny the one hij- boxing plan from Alan deep. He said go have you got that? I don't have it. No. I'm actually just outta book review on it as well. He's been on the shar very race of actually he was on the showing the only maybe ten shows the guy fantastic, really really simple have break that down put everything on the one. By just got on what I liked about. What you said we through that kinda resonates right now. The upside of five is going to be structuring, you'll company for the maximum productivity. One phone that's going to be had generate rook style employees applications, which is I absolute frigging Manfred around the world, and in maximizing profit in your business, which is going to be the final episode is this as the topics that you have seen trending lightly. Just why you decided to choose. Yeah. Like, I I mean, we were with a lot of guys and girls are in this kind of world of meal five hundred listen say ten million and they're all struggling with the same stuff. It's like, we're not. We don't really have a plan. We're kinda guessing where we're headed. We don't really have a good structure. So we're in the middle fixing all the pieces. And we're struggling like hell to find people. So there's a lot that we have put in there. And then the whole like prophet bit thing if you grow without understanding, the financial your company, there's no point growing, you'll probably make the same if not less, but you'll work just as hard if not harder to make it. So. Yeah. So you're saying it's pretty much. It's very similar message to the one that the folks value says, you know, you can get to five hundred K mock with one million dollar mock. And he says it's is like these Dade zone the businesses fold into once they get in getting from that to the three million bucks formula. Go nocco, whatever it is. He says that's kind of you know, you think you don't gripe, and you get there you like quicksand what the hell's going on. So obviously interested he take on on this is that you'll kind of experience as well. Yeah. I mean, you're it's the classic like contractor trying to learn how to be a business owner. Right. When you're when you're blow five hundred K, you can kind of get away with it. You can be an excellent contractor, and you can go do your day today. And. Probably make decent money in your your hands can be on everything guy doesn't show up. You can go show up for him. You know, building a paging. We'll talk the customer and figure it out and do the work to get get paid. Like, you can do it yourself when you start to get bigger than five hundred cage. So take a million two million three million. You have to rely on your people you have to rely on systems that you will not physically have enough time in The Danny more to do the same thing. Jesus to do it a blow for hurricane and that. And that's why. And that's you have to transition from being kind of a doer of all these things to a builder of awesome systems, and a builder of awesome people and that takes a very intentional change. And without that, you're going to be running. You know, I was called. It's like it's like, you're driving a little Honda Civic, and you redlining this thing. Like you need a new engine kind of get to the next stage. So in this episode in pot one we talking about building, you'll want patients edgy plan now on smoking to in the past, and we've we've had many conversations over the years in a you know, you guys are really big on strategy and getting that issue foundations set Australia hickeys on the show. Beasley a lot of those guys have a very. As far as it, man. Try in the sense of will if you take the time to map out a bit of a strategy instead of the game plan in how do you know if you can the boxes? Pretty Kate methodology around this that you you worked pretty pretty very heavily investing. That sorta initial strategy then building on it and scowling from it. It's one of I think the number one thing is just think about how people spend their time every week. I mean, it's easy to be busy. It's hard to be busy on the things that actually matter long-term because most of the time you're busy with the things that matter short-term, the stuff that matters this week getting that you know, that Bill pays you can pay payroll getting that customer happy again. So they're not gonna kill ghost something bad on your Google reviews. Getting whatever it is as emergencies that happen every day or every week and a business, and you're usually inclined wanted to go take care of those first which leaves you very little if not no time to go and think about where you want to be next year. So there's this this thing about like our things higher gency, and and high impact those are the things you spend most your day in or are you spending more time and things that are high impact, but lower gency, that's strategic planning and that and by doing strategic planning properly it'll start to get you. Spendings say five hours a week on things that are high high high impact but fairly low urgency, actually. But again, it's only five hours a week. Right. So it's getting you in that habit of starting to do that. So then he'd use what it gives a quick rundown on mean familiar with you did a story that you'll background before we jump into this episode without kademi. Sure. Yes. Yeah. So I started a painting business when I was eighteen years old just painting houses residential houses. And taught me a lot taught me a lot about myself. But what I was capable of. I enjoyed it a lot I also tend to work myself to the bone. I was not probably the most skilled person in the room. But I was the most I'd say hardworking person. That's how I always win. I always looked around and been like, you know, I may not be the best business owner when it comes to being the best at sales. The best is all these other things I but I was the best just like working a lot to get my results. And that was how I did it for a couple years. And when I was running the painting business, I was actually a franchisee. So as a part of a franchise organization and over time, I started to kind of get. Raining from the corporate level on how to be better because I was working eighty hours a week. I'd grown a business to about a million bucks. And I was starting to hit a bit of a plateau, and it wasn't really getting any easier to get any bigger. I mean, if I put an eighty five hours a week, maybe I could get a little bigger, but they'd have it all required my time. So I took a lot of time to reflect on, you know, how do I basically look at you know, the way to spend my time, how do I delegates my people? How do I hire better? How do I look at the financials and squeeze a few percent out of our gross profit margin and things like that. And we started to grow, and I started to work less, and I took myself from whatever was one point three million dollar business right before the recession and then through the recession grew up to two million then from there after two years of that took on a but more of a corporate position with his franchise or and I got to help manage but eleven million dollars a year and really see at a corporate level. Like, how'd you lead through layers? How do we had four hundred painters producing that eleven million bucks over just four months in the summer. So it was quite a like small window of time that we produce all that revenue and how do you build an entire business wherever? Circulates around having the right people in place right systems in place. And you're more the puppeteer of everything never did. I have time after that to go do an estimate or to paint a house or to even higher a specific patient. Right. I had the lead through layers and that journey and that experience of going, right? From grassroots. Stay today running my painting business to having this massive organization helped me a lot and it put me in a place. Now, where do I get to kinda share that? And we've created a school essentially for entre preneurs who are intrigued were in painting and landscaping renovations and home services, and they're trying to find an exact same solution to their business that I went through just organically and was almost taught. And so as a screw it. Let's let's teach it ourselves. And now we've created this place where everyone can learn exactly how to scale properly. What are all the phases? Involve those steps would all the processes and procedures we provide everything for them. So we have a ton of content a ton of coaching and a pretty cool community where everyone kind of knows each other insurers ideas. So and Philis zap, they obviously I speak the loads of you know. Tried specialists around the world Danny's program, I think he's definitely up there with while the best of the planet, and I love I love how you guys allow you take that sort of corporate system mentality break it down and make it applicable to try by Sovino's Isan because that's something that is a struggle. And I think a lot of the gauze even just getting them on the stand. And speaking that language with is is a battle. So. Yeah, love love what you goes over there. Thanks fan wild ride. Sorry, we're talking in this episode about building at one pint strategic client now a to hear a little bit. I suppose about what that entails. I mean, you're gonna dog being there will be a strategic fan. I mean as I said before we've had to go on the show. This talked about one marketing point now, I'm trying to figure out hack ahead. You get a one five mocking binding or one pice changing plan you go on. Hi. You got like an entire book. So. Yeah. I think the general concept behind the idea of one page is just trying to say, hey, look, let's keep the simple because if this is an entire manual. You're probably not going to reference it enough to make an impact you probably gonna write it up get excited in January when you got space and then hit production and never looked at it. Again, it behind this is like something you can put on the wall. So your team can see you can see you can reflect on it fairly quickly, and the golden nuggets are kind of there for you. And that's that's the idea why it's one page. Dude us one page to build the whole thing. Now, we had tons of other like excel sheets, and ideas and things in the background that we built to make sure that what's on that one page matters. But it's a summary sheet of the entire business, and we're we're going so yeah, it makes sense. Oh, it was jumping. So I mean, what about a few points? The UN Andrea will collaborating with even things rep with all the methodology. And I guess that's kind of what you were just talking about being, you know, the using the heating the bigger picture soften and breaking down. Into one simple easy to everyone on track. So to God. Yeah. So so this break these down into piece two pieces here like start with the idea of having a goal like your strategic plan revolves around a goal that you're trying to achieve and sometimes people say things like I want to be more successful. I want to have more staff. I wanna be less on the tools, and I'm like those are wants those those are non goals. They have a goal you need to have a very specific idea of exactly what the the goal actually is. So we want to be at three point two million with a four hundred twenty seven thousand dollar gross profit margin. We don't wanna have forty-two percent gross profit percentage off of our jobs, and we have one of two project managers fully operating in the field with the owner out of the day to day that that is a very specific goal. So wanted to go that is that is well that would be one that would be three or four different goals written in your strategic plan in the goal setting section for the year. Right. So that's like that's what we wanna go as a company, and so what I what I really to get people thinking about his as their billing any goal to use this thing called smarter. Since for specific which is wanted just covered specific goals. Measurable goals. Attainable goals realistic goals time. Phased goals. And y fence for on the smart side censor why are you doing what you're doing? And so if you have something that's specific like that. If you have something that's measurable, if you notice that alleged gave you has numbers in it. Right. You cannot measure along the way whether or not you're hitting right, otherwise it's like midway through the year. I want to be more successful. I want to make more money like is more are you on the way to making Morley? You don't know what that means? But if you wanna make four hundred twenty seven thousand dollars, and you're at two hundred and twenty you know, you're probably midway through the year. You're probably mid we're gonna make where you're trying to get to right? Weiner, rock this podcast today to talk to you, very quickly about trading web gauze content creation program that program has been designed specifically for tried by organizations as a way that you go is as tried business. Ireland's Ken Stott, creating content that enables you to engage with your customers and your potential customers. It will enable you to build trust and build report. Because what you're doing is. You're investing in educating them. Biggest problem that we see with customers today is not regularly updating their websites, and that's a problem because first of all the search engines looking for that and second of all attention customers are also king for Tracy web. Gauze content creation program has been specifically designed to help you get regular relevant content on your web select consistently every month. We know that a Todd when you're at the on the tools, and we know that sometimes you don't always have the time to be able to do these things yourself. So we're taking it off your hands for ya. It's a service that we're offering. Yugo is we want to make sure that you're getting these Don because we know how important it is. Anyway, hit across to trade web. Gauze don't come Dodi you forward slash content. Filling the full and one of representatives you'll come back to you. The next one is a for a table. A lot of people get the regal in the way when they're building a business on how they say, oh, why don't we do that last year? I don't know we could do better next year and they get excited and they build this big goal. And then they break it down to go hit it and we tweak within six months their way off and the whole team gets demoralized and nobody's hitting their weekly goals anymore. There's no point even having a goal. Gee, it's not attainable. So you need to be pretty dislike down to earth. Like is something a little step up from last year that we can go achieve and then the are of smarties are stands for relevance. So realistic before it's relevant. How relevant is this goal to your business? How many things and I'll just say this everyone listening out there. How many things have you done last year that you may even spent a month on that? Got you nowhere some talking about the the that employees that you made a rushed higher on. I'm talking about that big commercial job or project. You've got excited about the major no money. I'm talking about that whatever that system that you put in place for the company that nobody ever even. Used like we as entrepreneurs often have what I call entrepreneur ADD stands for like, another darn distraction. Whether you physically have ADD like I do or you just have entrepeneurship ADD a lot of us suffer from that. And it's because there's so many opportunities out there, and we need to look like what is actually relevant to our goals. Are we going to attach things to the company that irrelevant or we're going to get distracted so our sensor relevant T stands for time. Phased. It's basically saying look boast of us crammed far final exams and university of high school, and we're doing the same thing in our business or waiting to the very last minute. Try and get everything done all at once. And in business. Unfortunately, you just can't do that at scale. You can't go produce a million dollars in a month. Right. Like you have to pace that out throughout the year and ended up timeframe's all of this that you can achieve many goals along the way. And then the last one why smarty goals, so the the why part of it it kind of approaches it from a different angle and says if you look at all those other ones I was just talking about their very head space done. Like, these are the numbers this. We're measuring misses the time to hit that why is a bit more of the heart stuff. It's like what what what actually? Yeah. When you actually care about. And why are you growing this business? We a growing it. Because if you don't have a very clear why you're gonna get lost real fast. I probably cried every year. I've run a business. Like, literally like, I've pushed myself to tears and there's times in my business where I'm sure everyone listening. You can reflect on this one time, I want you to do this near mind. When was the last time you're sitting in your office driving to a job site? Whatever was and you're like why the fuck am. I doing. Do. And you don't even have an answer. You're just numb and you're pissed and when you're in those states of mind, and you don't have a clear why you didn't think about when you started this business. What was important to you? When you started the year, what was really important to you. You can get derailed pretty fast, and you can give up and he could stop and you of never rebound from that properly. But when you have a very clear why in a passion behind what you're doing. And you've thought about it ahead of time you've written it down. And it's in your mind every day that stuff can come up, and you can kinda breathe a bit more. You like why am I doing what I'm doing because six years ago, we started this business to support the family because my old employer used to be shitty to their employees? And I want to be better to my people because my know the last companies to work with us to do shitty work. And I want to provide a service to my customers that I can be proud of every day because I had experiences in my life when I was younger that now make me better. And I wanna I wanna prove that every single day. So so what if we just lost ten grand on that one job and my four guys quit. This is a part of the journey that I decided to be on. Right. And that gets you through those moments. So. Goals built with those components. Those elements are very robust like goals, usually people not only, you know, set up properly, but the ledge heave because they're specific measurable attainable. The relevant to where you're going. If timed it out, and you've got a clear drive in a passionate y behind the whole thing. So those are the components of a goal and you're set. Way crowding out one by strategic plan. Visit ole Stott and stemmed down like a tree from the goal. The. Yes, smutty yoga. Yeah. So once you've developed the goal, that's that's sometimes argued with the hardest part because it's kind of like, okay. Like, we really need to think through where we're going what the numbers need to be how we're gonna get there. All the components now, you can sit back and just stare at the goal and say, okay, what are all the lake initiatives that need to happen for this goal to become real. So give you some examples. Let's say running a business. It's a million bucks that you're running all the sales and production yourself and you're wanting to get to one point five and you're like I am maxed at one million dollars. Okay. Well, you probably need a project manager Abyan administrator. Or maybe you need a salesperson. But one of your initiatives could be to hire one of these key roles. It's your you know, what I'm great at sales. I got the office down, Pat, but I'm not the greatest with production. And I. Should hire someone to do that. Okay. So that could be your first higher and one of your initiatives for the year is to hire project manager to take off twenty hours a week of your workload. Or whatever that is. That becomes an initiative. She stared your goal and you develop three to five maybe max six initiatives. Right. You might say, you know, what we got lots of people in the business and things are working, but everything's on paper. And I've seen all these cool systems online where we could put into project management software. This is the year to do it. Okay. One of our initiatives is to put in a project management software. So the initiative section that we have everyone fill out really as the building blocks that allow that goal to become real an initiative is in work twenty four hours. Right. Like an initiative is a piece of fundamental component of the company that now works for you is now functional for the rest of the businesses life. So you figure out what initiatives what which ones are you gonna put in this year? You might have twenty over the next five years. You wanna put in a what five or are you going to put in this year that are most relevant to the next stage of business? It's gonna. Like, reverse engineering. She's sort of got the goal. Then you go in order to get here on do the. Yup. Totally. So from there, you have all your initiatives. Now, you're like, okay. What are we doing this quarter? And so we try and break things down to like quarterly rocks is what we call them. And we're saying now out of all these initiatives, we need to select our project manager, maybe select the software that we're going to be working with. But we won't let me maybe have them fully in their role yet so quarter. One is your rocks could be, you know, generate enough applications. I started started an application generation system to get enough apps for this. This project manager have them hired another set of rocks could be a research all the serum in project management softwares that are relevant to your industry and select one and start with the initial training to know how to use it. So these are rocks. These are little pieces of the bigger initiative that you might do along the way within that year. You might have had another initiative of say starting a marketing campaign that you do throughout the summer, but that initially. Didn't get done in that first quarter because it's not relevant yet that might start next quarter that'll be next quarter rocks. That kinda makes sense. So again like you said that down there to slowly breaking down. Did I am recently. We did a us we've a plant whose about one of the make products. But it's actually he's backgrounds military, and he's got a very similar framework could hit us from his is in the military in the a cool of the one page. Australia plan, I call by eight military history plan is deal. The like the simple thing that you gave out your geo- taming everyone's on the same pies implemented, it a business is very similar what you say they basically taking like a like a three ago breaking down into one ago second one year ago breaking it down into quarterly goal. So I can quarterly goals by going beyond a monthly galls daily actions in most gotta stop in. It's pretty pretty useful. I've been using it a lot. It's bank. Right. Totally because what happen. Is long-term if you do this, right? And he break it all the way down to what am I going to do this week you schedule five hours a week to do one or two of those things you can't hire a guy in a week, but you can post on you know, a couple of key recruiting sites. You can do you know, you put three hours in to do interviews. You can put time into do certain pieces directly rates relate to the long term goal. And I think it's hard for people. Sometimes if you don't do this. You can say I'm going to work on my business this week which idea if what you're working on is actually relevant to the long-term. If you haven't taken the time to break down in this fashion. You're just working on the business. Whether that helps you in the future or not, I guess we'll go find out and in the next episode. We're gonna be talking more about structuring at your company you for TV. And I'm guessing that episode we're going to talk a little bit more about what you just said. It had a friend wake and had a structural deliverables disposal. The sauce chunks is that. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The next talk a lot about your team. How do you get your team all lined on goals? Is that everybody every week knows if they're delivering an ROI to the company or not. Yeah. So. It'll focus a lot on that. And it really will say that it utilizes the strategic plan because if you have these key numbers in you know, what you're trying to hit any know what the breakdown looks like you can now get your team behind you on that. So. Or coup. What a what did we miss here in terms of owning your one is for by? What else I can so far is you've got to get the spec dev- Arbor your lodge ago. Make it a snotty goals something specific it's measurable attainable. Which relevant it's gonna time face to it. And of course, the mindset stopped behind you. Why the hell are we doing this water? We want to go. What else are we go? He. I guess the final thought is it's great to build all this and put all the time into this. But you have to do quarterly reviews. So we as our company most of our team that you know, companies we coach they have pre-established quarterly review time. So every quarter there's a day or even just a half day if need be where they're reviewing all how they did. So what did we implement? What didn't we implement how far along are? We okay, what's next quarter's rocks now, and so you can readjust every quarter and having that keeps you accountable and keeps you on pace for what you're trying to hit. But I will say about this after years of doing this everything tends to especially your first couple years of doing this everything you tend to plan out tends to take two to three times as long and cost two to three times as much as you thought. It was going to be kind to yourself in this like don't be like, oh my God. We didn't get like half. We only got have done. It's like good. You got half of it done. It's half more than you would have had you not plan this stuff out. Yup. Exactly on curiously beautiful and sometimes the quarterly review. Whether you guys really let you say it's a quarterly review. But I know you are the why you upright like you. You'll quarterly review is broken down into almost daily metrics. Like, I'm saying, you, spike shades. I find I find if you if you'd measuring things quarterly, and if you're measuring the goals on a quarterly basis, it's almost too much of a gap to them if you all behind China shop, so can you break that down into what you actually do. Yeah. So we're we're gonna talk about a lot in the next session. But let's go I can't yes. In our goal setting in review meetings, and those are weekly meetings with you and your staff, but they are a little bit different. Like Jesus in our is like very numbers based it's very much looking at like, how many leads do we need this week for how many did we generate? It's very like looking at the stats of the company. This is a little bit more project based this is a little bit more. Like, we gotta spend time hiring key staff. Putting in this project management software getting this marketing campaign up and running and you will you want to build that as project time for the company and your strategic plan. It certainly involves your numbers like we have to hit a certain number by the end of the quarter. But really the review time is looking at. Okay. What projects did we lent which ones we didn't? If you're behind on numbers. Okay. Let. To problem solve but we need to do differently. So if we're only able to do six quotes a week and are quoting system is making a stoops eight quotes a week. Do we need to hire another person? Do we need to do one hour quotes for to our quotes? You can talk about that in your quarterly review to try and get next quarter more efficient. So it's really about strategy and the bigger picture strategy every quarter. So yeah, clarify that about what I think that, you know, all you need to do is full meetings. You no, yeah. So beyond beyond this. We're gonna get into the next session that we also on top of that with our team have every week. We have a goal setting meeting that kind of guides us and keeps us accountable. Okay. We'll on that. Why don't we wrap this one up? We're gonna come back in the following episode. We're going gonna talk about how to structure is you'll business to accompany organization for maximum productivity where we're gonna get granular supposed to metrics meetings. Giving accountable Lonzo ball sound. Good awesome. Good role. Thank you for listening to another episode of toolbox talks if you liking what you hear and you can hit across to the site shade dot com where you can join our community by signing up to our toolbox talks. You'll get sent a weekly notification, which is basically a high lot of everything that we've spoken about joining that wake along with any other industry news that might be relevant. Oh specific to the triads if enjoying the show, you can head across to achieve Stitcher or soundcloud, what you can leave us a review that would be fantastic and all the reviews get right out in the show. 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NPR News: 11-21-2019 6AM ET
"This message comes from. NPR sponsor. Xfinity some things are slow like a snail races. Other things are fast like Xfinity X.. By get get fast speeds even when everyone is online working to make WIFI simple easy awesome more at xfinity dot com restrictions apply live from NPR news in Washington. I'm Korva Coleman. Two witnesses will testify the house impeachment inquiry today include a State Department official and a Russia expert expert who formerly served on the White House National Security Council on Wednesday Pentagon official Lyric Hooper told lawmakers the impeachment inquiry that Ukraine was asking about about holdup in US military aid back on July twenty fifth in July. I became aware of a whole being placed on obligation of the State Department's Foreign Oren military financing or FM and DOD's USA. I funds in a series of entry. Gency meetings I heard that the president had directed the Office of Management and Budget to hold the funds because of his concerns about corruption in Ukraine. The July twenty fifth date is significant. It shows is that Ukraine was asking about the US military aid suspension on the same day the Ukrainian president was talking to president trump supporters of the. US President didn't have claimed that Ukraine did not know about the hold on US military assistance at the time of the phone call. Ten candidates met in Atlanta last night for a Democratic presidential presidential debate. NPR's Scott detro- has more on the fifth such debate among presidential hopefuls. For most of the night the debate felt more low key than previous forums. uh-huh that changed in the final twenty minutes. When Minnesota Senator Amy Klobuchar and then Hawaii Congresswoman Tulsi Gabbard both criticized South Bend Indiana Mayor Pete? Buddha CH- wjr Buddha judge now leads the polls in Iowa but club which are pointed out. He has far less experience than most of the other candidates on stage Washington experience. Experience is not the only experience matters. There's more than one hundred years of Washington experience on this stage. And where are we right now is a country. The candidates also answered answered questions on parental leave policy climate change housing and voting rights among other topics Scott detrow. NPR News Washington. The Navy special warfare. Command is considering considering whether to expel chief. Petty Officer Eddie. Gallagher and three other Navy seals from member station K. P. B. S. Steve Walls reports. The move would take like a different direction. From the White House. For Seals received letters Wednesday saying that they face being stripped of the seals iconic trident. The move comes after president. Trump trump restored gallagher's rank last week. Overturning a military jury and his own commanders in July gallagher was acquitted of the most serious charges including killing an unarmed Krizner in his custody while on deployment in Mozell in two thousand seventeen three other seals connected with the same deployment. Also face being ousted. Lieutenant Dinka Portier portier lieutenant. Thomas McNeil and their commander Lieutenant Commander Robert bryce part of a navy. Crackdown after a series of embarrassing headlines. Attorneys as for the seals are appealing to the trump administration to stop the process for NPR news. I'm Steve Walsh in San Diego you're listening to NPR news. The president of the United Auto workers quit suddenly on Wednesday just as union officials got ready to expel him Gary Jones and another UAW official are suspected expected of misusing union funds for personal expenses and concealing that separately. General Motors is suing rival. Automaker Fiat Chrysler Company alleges Edges Fiat Chrysler bribed U. A. W. Officials to get favourable labor union contracts. An outbreak of a viral illness has prompted a school district in western Western Colorado to temporarily close all campuses. Colorado public. Radio's Steven seg- has more. It's the first time all of the roughly fifty schools else in this rural district near the Utah. Border have closed at the same time. Due to sickness officials are planning to reopen campuses after intensive cleaning during the week long Thanksgiving Break Hydra Goo with Mesa County. Public Health cautioned. Anyone feeling ill to avoid work in public spaces if you start to get stick with this bug don't power through stay home if you can And just really avoid sharing it with others she says. The main symptom is a sudden onset set of vomiting lasting between twelve and twenty four hours for NPR news. I'm Steven seg- in Grand Junction. Colorado president trump awards the national national medal of the arts and the national humanities medal tonight. Some arts recipients include musician Alison Krauss and actor. Jon voight some humanities medalists analysts will include author James Patterson and the conservative think tank the Claremont Institute. I'm Korva Coleman N._P._R.. News in Washington.
S4E7: Gen Z in The Workplace
"To either concerned. Supposed to what to do with their keep it pure free with Dr Chang seat. Only one major financial peers. Son yours has. With gagging done. Hello, young deadbeats. I'm Gabby done. And this is bad with money. Have you heard the good news? The economy is doing great unemployment is at an almost fifty year, low economists are calling it full employment economists known for their way with words. So I guess, all of my bitching, and moaning about economic Justice for the last three seasons was for nothing. Because it's all fixed the end. Yeah. Wouldn't that be wonderful? But you guys should know by now that it's not that easy. The good news about unemployment masks, some deeper, festering issues of inequality and young people entering the job market, are trying to figure out how to make it work, even at a big disadvantage compared to previous generations. We talked last season about how most of the crap being spewed about millennials is nonsense. Millennials are not a monolith millennials are not only middle class to upper class, there, also low income millennials guys, we never talk about them. And on this show, we haven't even really gotten to jen's e. Jenky has just joined the workforce, and the workforce will never be the same mostly because jen's e is rightfully traumatized their work is largely part time they have an impossible time finding well-paying entry level jobs that don't require years and years of quote unquote, experience and rising costs of well, everything has made things like home ownership, kids and even financial stability or mobility seem like a pipe dream. This week on the show. We talked to joy Shan and editor at the California Sunday magazine she decided to dig into what the world of work looks like for jen's e she interviewed all kinds of people in their teens and early twenties. Some of their parents professors generational consultants, which is the thing we will get into what that is soon and economic experts about what it looks like for jen's e to go to work. She found plenty of depressing realities that higher and higher degrees are needed for jobs that wages are too low for jen's e to realistically live on, and that the rise of Perm Lancers part time gigs is unethical as fuck. They're being told there to educated for retail or service industry jobs, but not educated enough for the jobs, their parents or grandparents could have easily nabbed at their age increasingly people have jen's e are taking internships and fellowships as starter gigs, where pay health insurance questionable the internet and the ubiquitous nature of applying for jobs online has also caused a flood. Of more applicants than employers know what to do with competition has become incredibly fierce for even the jobs that don't require a lot of experience or education. And because jen's e is graduating, both high school and college with low expectations and immense desperation, they often don't know what to ask for, or what conditions and treatment is appropriate. Companies are therefore able to really take advantage of their young workforce, and believe me, they do I've talked before on this show about the danger of companies saying were family, we all work here because we love the company and we love each other, and we're just so passionate in her article called for higher joy covers the cult of the twenty four seven workday and the toil glamour surrounding the hashtag grind toil. Glamour, by the way is the name of my new band, so who is jen's e. And what are they doing at work? The oldest gency people, according to, like the sort of official cutoff date, and we can talk about where this term comes from later arbitrariness of it, but the official cutoff date for the oldest. One's is those born in nineteen Ninety-six. So the oldest people graduated from college, if they went to college in twenty eighteen and the youngest ones are like in their pre teen age right now. And so what had where to jen's e come from, like, why is this the, the name of the generation, and like, you know, I always fight back against sort of talking about generations as a monolith. So where did where did jen's e come from? I'm so glad you said that out the monolith, too. So the name comes from, I'm actually not sure I'm guessing, just has to do with, like there's genetics and gen Y. And then now it's jen's e but these sort of like generational names. I think a lot of them are sort of like marketing terms. One thing that I sort of happened upon while doing research for this story was that there's this cottage industry now of like multi generational workplace consultants in their whole job is like consult, for companies. How to cater to the younger generation because they're so different. And like people don't understand them and things like that. So I sort of entered it with a bit of skepticism Zoe how different could Chelsea be from millennials, which is what I am. But what I found was that. There are some there are some pretty big intrinsic and behavioral differences. What are generational consultants? They're people who sort of they specialize in helping like a company assay, mostly, like people in their forties, or thirty thirties, or forties. They specialize in helping employers basically like figure out what is going on in the young people's minds and like, how do you attract them to this company, and how do you retain them because people are definitely moving from job to job with more repetitive than they were before. So one woman, I spoke to she runs this consultancy called XYZ university. And what they do. They do a ton of focus groups with outta lessons, jen's, e people, and also millennials, and they also do surveys about what they want from the workplace, and they bring suggestions to different companies about, like, how they might change things about company hierarchy or hiring structure, or like branding, and website to better attract themselves, for, like, the newer people who are coming into the workforce loud. So there. There's that much of a disconnect between the people hiring and the people looking for jobs. Yes. Completely. I mean don't we see it in some of these, like Lincoln articles that go viral like like the HR consultant who's like, oh my God. All these candidates are ghosting me and I don't know what to do. So. Yeah. I think that there are people who are sort of experiencing that cultural difference and are just like trying to figure out how to adapt to it. I mean a lot of that, and I'm maybe projecting. But a lot of that to me is like it seems like the companies are like, well, we used to be able to treat people like shit. And now these young people come in and they don't want to be treated like shit. I'm confused. Yeah. I mean, I think you're totally right. And what I noticed my friends. So like, younger millennials also, the people I spoke to is, like, there's this idea that you are the only person looking out for you right now. Previously. We have this idea that we always refer back to just like previously, you would work for a company, you would start in the mail room or whatever stay there for like twenty thirty years. Get a really good salary get all these benefits. Get a pension retire live. You're like best life. And I think like sorry in two thousand eight and maybe even before, but especially into two thousand in the midst of all these layoffs, there's this sort of broader recognition that. Oh my God. Like your company really isn't looking out for you the way you thought you were. And I think all these changes that we've seen in corporate restructuring has affirmed that so like, now I think you can go to any young person and be like, you know, is your employer looking out for you? And most people say, well, even if you have a good relationship with your boss. Maybe you really do have to look out for yourself. And so I think that's why that's why people are also changing jobs more. 'cause like that's a way to sort of like a crew more opportunity. You know, you can earn more by doing that. And also something doesn't suit, you, you can probably leave. Yeah. I mean my very first job, I, I was working in a newsroom and within like six months, there was something that happened, where they didn't have enough money and I watch. Everyone around me get fired. So at that point, you start panicking and looking like there's no loyalty to the job because the job, I think, what I really resonated with the articles, the job demand so much of you. But then gives you basically nothing back. Yes. And so you say that there's, like different attitudes from jersey. Is it that they, they are just recognizing that and voicing it and saying it rather than sort of like my parents age, who would be like no you just get treated like shit by a Boston than you go to work, and you do it? And that's what you do. And I think like is it is it that day? I mean it also it seems like a mix of optimism in that I can get a better job. I want more for myself people should be treated better, and defeatism of, like, well, the future sucks. So I'm just gonna like, do what I want. That's a really good question. Gaby is actually sort of tried to wrap my head around this. Well, because on the one hand. End we have this ladder thing that you're pointing out, which is almost is like, well like things looking kind of bleak. And all I have is me. So that's definitely out there. And one of the last pieces that was part of this story was about hell yogurt, people sort of recognizing this hustle, culture? That's everywhere this drive to work twenty four seven yes. And the three people, we spoke to are finding ways to get out of that to escape temporarily, and so one of the women, quite really Dort speaking, do she just graduated. But she was saying, like, you know, I actually believe that you should try to steal as much time and money from your employees. You can not money. Jack. I. Okay. I you should. Yes. I, I agree with this woman. Can you explain what she said, I fully am on board with this. And this is maybe this'll be what exposes in cancels me. Take paper from your company bathroom, take a paper home with you. I don't care if you work for a big not a mom and pop. But if you work for a corporation, put fill your backpack with toilet paper, take that shit home. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Did you see that a near at times piece about, oh my God, I was obsessed with the story, but it was in the style section. And it was about how employees at companies that offer snack bowls are basically, like making lunch -able meals out of those snack bulls. Absolutely. I love that piece in. There was an amazing there. Several amazing quotes in the story that was like, well, like, dude. I'm living in New York it's so expensive. My salary gets me. They're kind of hundred percent. If I can just like make this pizza of this, like this cracker cheese situation. Then like I can save forty dollars a week. But yo- open your backpack, put all the granola bars in their closure backpack. Go home. I have. No. I'm feel bad about that. So this woman, we spoke to she just graduated pretty recently. And I think it was really interesting about her was that she recognized upon basically, like the first separate job process when she was like looking at all these job openings, she was saying, I noticed that there is this language around work, that made it seem as though I would have to give up all of my time, and it's really, really common in the bay area, and I bet a New York as well. Where they're just like an intense work culture words, like we're all passionate people, and we all have this, like drive in this devotion to succeed in where a community of like passionate like minded individuals stuff like that. And I, I actually ran a search on indeed, the job board website and search for the word passionate and found that there were like two hundred fifty thousand entry level openings that came up the had the word passionate in it. And they were all jobs, like I think in. We sort of expect this sort of language. Now, maybe but they weren't all jobs like that, right there were, like, legal jobs. There were like warehouse associate jobs. There were retail jobs like it sort of ran, the, the salary spectrum, but she was saying she noticed that, and she said, I don't want that. So she found a job that didn't expect that of her. And then even she said that even when shoes there, she noticed that a lot of her colleagues don't wanna take lunch like they don't they want to eat lunch at their desk, or her freight of being gone for too long, but she makes it a point to she can find a way to read books that are desk if she can escape for afternoon, coffee also read more she'll do that. Which I found really surprising, I think that for, for me at least I think for a lot of the people who are my age or older. We are so steeped in this culture of having to work twenty four seven that when someone. Named it and like called it out. It was like a revelation. I was like, oh my God. Yes, that is what we're doing. But we don't have a we don't have distance from it. And I think that what's so interesting about talking to people who are coming into the workforce right now is that they can see all these dynamics that are playing out in front of them in people older than them, and they can interpret, analyze it, and then find their own response to it in a way that maybe like I wasn't able to yeah, the word passionate, I feel is, is a, a way to say, we're not going to pay you that much tree that, well but but you're gonna love it. Like, I think Mr. action it's a word. It's like a euphemism for I mean, I love when you were talking about had never heard it phrased this way, the toil glamour like the idea of like I'm working so hard. I'm hustling so hard. It's glamorous. So do you see that Jesse isn't isn't falling for that as much? Because I know me personally, like I've been this way for so long. And my job has been this way for so long that I'm thirty and I'm just now figuring out how to do things that don't have an endgame. Like I literally have picked up guitar because I'm lying because I'm like, I this is the first time in my entire life starting at age fourteen when I had a job to now. So sixteen years, where I'm like, you know that you can do things and have skills that don't have to do with, like making money and work, but I took me sixteen years to figure that out. So like, do you see a difference where jen's e is sort of like already on that tip? That's a really good question. I was curious about that as well. So I could see the answer going both ways. And I think that right now because we only have one year of them being in the workplace that we don't quite have enough anecdotal evidence to go off yet. I could see going to way. So one of them is that they're going to be hustling, as much or even more than all of us, I spoke to this one guy, who was he was about to graduate from really competitive engineering school with an engineering degree, and Hugh saying that he hasn't graduated yet he's already working three jobs. Just keep up with how expensive tuition is. And he said all his friends were doing that, too. And so, because of how they have this expectation that it's going to be, they're going to have to work harder for maybe less. We could see a world in which they're just going to keep working really, really hard. And I think also, especially everyone, I spoke to so driven to like make to set themselves up as well as they can given how competitive everything is like we could see them working even harder. But there's this one again, going back to the sort of workplace consultant, there was one person, I spoke to who said that she. Is beginning to see the hint of maybe returning to this idea of work life, balance in young people. But she wasn't sure where that was going if that were to happen if the pendulum swing in the opposite direction of optimization. I think it'd be super fascinating, but we're forgetting about too. Is that like the toil glamour has so much do with social media, and just being online and presenting yourself online? Oh, yeah. It becomes more apparent who is like living their best work life, and who isn't and one precise to specifically talked about, like the cool workplace trend going on Instagram and seeing all these people who are in there like cool open plan offices with like LaCroix and ping pong, and like, like life changing company mottos and all the stuff it just kind of bad and feeling like they are being left out us something. Yeah. Well, it's hard to put your good health insurance plan on Instagram, but you sure as hell can. Host about in bowls. So there was a thing that really stuck out to me about young job-seekers coming up against even like entry level jobs, requiring three years of experience this thing, where it was, like if you are a person who wants to even do like service or retail, you kind of need to like that's going to someone with a bachelor's degree versus like it used to go to someone who maybe didn't have a degree versus like now, the, the entry level job that would have gone to the person with the bachelor's degree is now going to, like someone with four years experience and a masters, can you explain like what these jen's ears are finding when they search yet, totally this is one of the more interesting things that I came across to, I think that sort of an anecdote people were telling us over and over is here's a job. And if I look at just the description of the job in what I have to do. I think I could do that. But it wants to or three years of experience and I think. That we're sort of used to hearing the story, right? And just sort of accepting that, but when I spoke to some economists, we heard this narrative that I thought was really interesting, which is that prior to two thousand eight companies were already beginning to outsource automate routine work, so data entry clerical stuff, things like that. But in two thousand one thousand eight happened a lot of companies were like oh, you know, we have to we have to downsize, like we have to start saving money. So it really catalyzed companies is start looking for ways to cut costs. So one of them was to sort of automate out, more routine work, and then also what happened in two thousand eight was that there was suddenly a bunch of really qualified college educated, skilled people who didn't have jobs. And so if you're an employer, like suddenly, you just you could choose from almost anybody, and that meant that, like a job that went to say, somebody who just graduated from college, you could suddenly someone with five. Years of experience, do there's a sort of specific economic term for this called credential inflation, or up credentialing. And what a number of people told me was that, you know, even though we're in a very different job market. Now the effects of this are still present. So we spoke to a number of recent hires who found ways around this, and all of them had really interesting strategies, actually. But what one young woman said was that she was tempted to separate volunteer, unpaid work and to sort of make the volunteer work sound more like a hobby, almost like, hold on. Like I can't do this. Like I she had a job at a bookstore, what I put into this, unpaid work at a bookstore is like, really it's quite valuable. So she's, she's Beasley found a way to, like, rephrase, it such that everything sounded as value over experiences sounded avalaible as they actually were. Which I think is she? He made the point to. It's as a woman, you know, like I'm gonna come go into every interview be like oh, shoot like I'm not qualified and it's all. So she's like I'm counterbalancing it, it was such a compelling argument. And what was really interesting too. Is that like a lot of these economists who study under employment? They found that women are so much more likely to be under employed. It's like another added twist to the pay gap conversation that's going on. Right. Which is like if you start out in your first job in a job that doesn't match what you went to school for doesn't match our level of degree. It's sort of, like impacts the rest of your earning potential for the rest of your life impacts career trajectory for the rest of your life. That's exactly what I wanted to talk about. Which was like this idea of beefing up your resume by giving the work that you did the power that it deserves. Because I think people are looking at these job listings and saying, oh, it says three years experience. Like I worked at my school newspaper. It's three years experience at a newspaper and I go, oh well, I only worked in my school newspaper. But I just said, like wrote news. Articles like you don't have to mention if you got paid or not just like wrote news articles for three years, like that's that's true. So that I found that really interesting in that the gen Z people you had talked to sorta figured that out. Yeah. Absolutely. And as this young woman said better than I ever could. She's like counter-balancing pre existing power structures by doing so. Yeah. It's not lying. Exactly. You're saying, look, I'm sorry, that this is the city for you. But like that doesn't allow any of us to find jobs. So here we are so one thing that stuck out in terms of, of not understanding the job market is in this rang. Very true. To me is people who, who want more money, but they don't necessarily know what to ask for. They don't know what to charge or they also are like setting unrealistic, deadlines in the sense that like the employer will be like, well, how long will it take you to do this? And then they wanna say short amount of time so they're like two weeks. But, like, really, it's a month, but they just feel like weird. They don't know what the realistic. Timeline is or what the realistic salary is like, is there that sort of anxiety going on for younger people to where they they're not sure what the etiquette is? When that came up, specifically was in this discussion of like self employment and gave them work, because one of the things that we talked about, in the piece with sort of this very growing very nascent move on behalf of colleges community colleges, and then also four-year colleges to sort of teach students, how to be their own boss in a way because of how where the economy is going in, like house so much work. Now is independent and freelance and contract where we focus that piece of the story was on this really interesting pilot project, that happened at twenty three community colleges in California where it was called the gig economy pilot project and like these business professors were teaching students like. Okay, let's say you want to find a gig work and be your own boss, in, like do independent contracting. How do you actually turn that into like a feasible career and not just a side hustle? And how do you not get screwed because it's so easy to get screwed. Oh, yeah. And so part of that conversation was also about, like cares how much charge. Here's how much you should feasibly earn per hour. Order to make this actually work what we've learned, especially in the last few years is that it's just as easy to not make enough money doing that kind of work as it is to actually succeed. Oh, I think people are scared. I mean, either question I get most is like from high schoolers, who say, I am an artist or I do these things that are independent contractor things than I don't know what to ask for. I'm scared that they'll take the money away, like am I under valuing my overvaluing myself like they're they're incredibly nervous? I think because they just. I don't know what they're worth, or they, they don't know that the company isn't their friend and the client isn't like there, buddy. I mean. Yeah. Yep. Isn't it so interesting that they have to think about the high schoolers? That's so young like oh yeah. It's so interesting that they even have to think about that from such an early age magin for our parents. You don't you just as soon. We're going to have a salary job with. Yes. That's you don't have to really be like, how much charge for our, you know, it's kind of just there, you're set. But yeah, this is definitely a new question. That's become very relevant now. Like, how do you do your time, because your time can go in so many different directions? What about entering the workforce for people who are jen's e who don't have a degree, or who are coming into it straight at high school? I feel like a lot of times there's focus on what's going on with the college graduates, but that's like a certain subset of person. And we've talked about this with millennials where. We're not talking about the people that are of this generation that are lower income. Yeah. I'm really glad you brought that up your sort of conceiving this story. There's a lot of conversation about, you know, how much do we want to focus on college grads? We did for the most part, focus it on people who went to college, because the value of that is sort of influx right now. And I think that the value of college right, the value college looks. And there's this idea that you in the past if you go to college, it'll guarantee a good life. You know, quote unquote, good life. Good job stable income. Maybe you can buy a house all that nice stuff. And that's not a guarantee anymore. And I think that will we're seeing is it feels like the start of a cultural shift. But like the very start of it. But I think there's this broader awareness that maybe college is not is not the best option for everybody. So. So I think there's a broader wariness that. Oh my gosh. Maybe we should do like cost benefit analysis. Maybe for me the returns aren't as high as they could be. And what are some like lower cost alternatives to that? Yeah. Because it is it is at odds with the idea of credential, inflation though, right? Yeah. A little bit. I'm glad you brought that up. But I think the credential inflation also has to do with experience and like can you make up for not having say a bachelor's degree with a ton of work experience, and I think are number of programs around the country that are experimenting with the apprenticeship model. So can you find someone who's like fifteen years old who sort of already has a sense of what they wanna do? And just start giving them job experience, then and setting them up did. Oh, did you did you do? I I worked at a all of most also cater waiter. And I was bad at it. But I mostly in high school worked as a reporter for a newspaper until I went to school for journalism. We'll do you think that when you started applying for jobs? Having dot experience the wood from when you are in high school. Like, do you think it like accounted for something? I think it was helpful. Yeah. Because now I'm thirty and I and I have fifteen years of professional journalism experience versus like you know, versus like someone who got out of school with me, and would have like eight years, right, right? Yeah. The apprenticeship model is saying, like okay, so let's take some news. Fifteen start training them for a middle skill jobs, so job that could sort of guarantee not guarantee. There are no guarantees anymore, but that could set them up for like, actually having, like a really good salary down the line. And then maybe they don't have to go to college or maybe they can get an associate's degree while working, and then not take out, two hundred thousand dollars in loans, and could they actually be better for both them and for their employers because then they can start working right away? So that sort of a thing that, starting it's also wild to be like, how can we best prepare children for capitalism? Just bonkers. I think it's so hard escape capitalism, unless you're like, really rich. Right. Like, is that the only way isn't that isn't that shit? Exactly, as you were saying about those high schoolers, you were talking to there have been surveys of young people like people who are still in high school that finds that so many of them are already trying to like earn income on the side. That's like like you. They're hustling. They're selling clothes on Mark. They're asking you for advice about how to charge per hour. Have one who I met in Chicago, who is like a full like she's a photographer. So she like, as graduated from high school and was, or was a senior when I met her, and it was like post me on Instagram, so my Instagram gets likes and I was like, yeah. Okay. So I posted her like she's like a cheese to work as a photographer using Instagram as a business card. It was like a seventeen year old. You're in it. We have to swim in it. And I think that for these for younger people now, especially people who sort of watch people be affected by two thousand eight it's sort of like, oh my gosh. You know there's this pressure to find a way to be financially stable as possible, and the only way to do that, just plea game and played as best as you can. So let's talk about okay, two things. One is the people that are choosing between dream jobs and higher paying jobs because millennials, and I'm again, were being very monolithic about it. But, like millennials were sort. Seen as being more in the press being more like I want my dream job versus like there was this idea that gen-x was very like I need stability, and I need a job, that's gonna make money because I'm on home and have kids. So, like, where's jen's e at right? They think they can own homes. Do they think they can have kids? I think they think I think they think that they're gonna have to work really, really damn hard for that yum. So I'll maybe start with what a workplace consultant person told me I, which I thought was compelling. And then we can talk about like, what exactly I heard from some people. But one of them told me, you know, you are so much more influenced by the previous generation the new thing, so she them Eleni oils were raised a lot of marines by boomers who sort of grew up in this time, where things were pretty good. There's a lot of social safety. Nets in place and author kids, you know what? Like you just take what you like and you do that. And things will work out sort of raising kids with these rose colored glasses on, and the same is not true for Genesee like when two thousand eight happened, those graduates graduating class two eight two thousand nine they were the most debt ridden generation in history. And then the generation above them was second most decorated. So. What this consultant told me was that. Like for jen's ITO. They watch their parents deal with the aftermath of Chas navy. Wasn't their parents, their older siblings? And then coupled with the financial crisis. Also, the student debt crisis, and just how people are saddled with debt from college. They were promised that they would be able to pay them off with a good job. But that promise worked out for some people, it wasn't quite able to for a lot of others. Yeah. They're traumatized by what they saw, and they were kids, they were kids, and I think a sentence, I heard over and over which I found so fascinating was that even if their families themselves were not like concrete. -ly effected desire is still there. And so what I heard over and over was like, I just don't want to have to worry. I don't have to that. Whether or not my job will be there. I don't have to worry about whether or not can support my kids, I just wanna being Ziobro free. And so, maybe having a dream job is in his dreamy, as it actually is if it's going. Fill me with so much Zayed. You know, maybe I, I can do a more stable thing to conversations, one that I had one that my coat reporter, Tom had that talked about, like the sort of interesting financial behavior of people who are sort of grew up with this. There's so much news about like debt debt debt. But we spoke to people who were just so frightened of taking on debt because they are worried about getting stuck with these loans that they can pay off and one young man, I spoke to basically said that his dad had to force him to get a credit card. So he could start building credit but he was so terrified of it, because he thought you just be so easy to be underwater, which is so different from the previous the previous narrative of American spending culture, which is that we love done. Like we take so much on in like you just forget about it. It's really different from that. I mean, the idea of just being like I don't wanna have anxiety and you know what kind of made me sad. When you. That was like if my dream job causes anxiety and debt than I don't want it. And it's like my first thought was how much are we losing out on as a culture because of this? How much are we, you know, how much are these kids losing out on because or that we're losing out on in terms of their talents, because they have recession PTSD, essentially, yeah. I didn't even think about that. But yellow I'm here to bum you out. Can we also talk about? I'm fascinated by this thing of fellowships rather than entry level jobs. What's the thinking there of a company saying, well, we don't have an entry level job for you. But we do have a fellowship. Yeah, we spoke to one young man who initially sort of going about his job. Search in the typical way and then was fined hitting the wall that we talked about earlier, which is this sort of two to three years minimum experience. But they're these fellowship programs where maybe there for, like nine months. If you're a new grad, and they pay you very little pay. You basically enough for you to live and make hopefully not have any medical emergencies there. No benefits, and they end after nine months, although I think there's some fellowship programs we can get hired after that. But there's sort of like it's like a new entry level job in a way, it's like you come, you work, make connections but you have to like. Then he replaced then you replace with the fresh cohort. Yeah. Yeah. But hopefully during that time you found enough you know, you got enough under your belt to like find like your first job that's on a fellowship job. Yeah. I've worked places that had those, and it was definitely a way to cycle people through and it caused. I think a lot of the fellows were very stressed out the entire time because they were trying to turn it into a job, or they were they were trying to figure out how to make a lasting impression. I feel like it's I feel like it's pretty unethical, but it's very normalized by this, this age, these people this age. It's very normalized. Yeah. Completely. I think it's almost like this woman. I spoke to Hugh is like there's a very negative connotation around unpaid internship. I think that there's like in two thousand fourteen there was like a reckoning about unpaid internships in the industry was, like, okay. Well, you got to move past that. No more unpaid internships. But he's like. So it's huge like, yeah, there's a negative connotation around it, but it's not as bad as unpaid internship. So at least you get paid. But the thing you're saying about eighty and about like can you turn it into a job? That's so real. I mean, this young man was so well adjusted but he was basically, like you just have to like, raise your hand for everything. You're gonna work super hard. You're going to work, probably more than definitely more than you're being paid for. But it's the idea like this promise at the end that it can turn into something that you're like ultimately getting rat in lieu of, you know, like benefits company. The company for that they're like, hoping to just keep getting people in who will work work work work for them. And then they and in the hopes that something it will turn into something. I mean okay so when you were talking about the people that stay at their desks during lunch. They have a thing in their mind where they think that that is good. That, that makes them a better employee or that they are proving something to the like, what is this whole like the grind or like twenty four hour like I'm is born out of exile is born out of not understanding how jobs work or not employers. I mean, is it true? Like I didn't know when I started like other people eating at their desk. So I was like, I guess we eat at our desks, like I didn't know. Yeah. I mean I could talk if I left my desk, what I get fired. Dude, I could talk about this for a whole other hour, probably. But I think it's like they're two sources of it. So one of them is definitely, I think we can't ignore the employer side of things and I surely won't because I think they're really at fault, but what, what one person told me one prisoner has a pretty cushy job. But who still feels like he needs to work all the time was that you just don't know because, like how precarious work has become this idea that you could be fired tomorrow. You could be replaced fired literally whatever. Right. It's like it's so wild. I mean, that has such a big impact on people's, like ideas of, like how hard they have to work. Right. You really feel like dude, I just really have to like prove to them that I have so valuable and just work super super hard right now. And maybe they'll like let me say, like I think. That's and I'll get a Perm ocean. It's I hope they, let me stay and a lot of gen Z feels that way. Yeah. I because I think there is this idea of, like you can be replaced anytime. I mean we definitely learned that lesson. We've, we've been learning that lesson for the last ten years. And I think that part of this conversation also just has to do with, like, how companies are restructuring it saves them more money. It can save them up to thirty percent of their costs by relying on freelance and contract work, rather than Lancers. Yeah, exactly. And so when you're purchasing ethical, you were always additioning for your next job, you know, like in addition to doing the job, you're also applying for the next job the next assignment, they'll give you. Yes. Yeah. So that I mean, of course you have to like always work, but I think also like given how expensive everything is to. And how the cost of living is higher would a lot of young. Younger people were also telling me was that the way to find meaning it's very hard to find eating in life. Now, we're also very secular. We're in a very secular moment. And if you don't have a family, and you don't really have this sort of community village around you. Oh my gosh. This one person said the sing that broke my heart. He was like, if you are having a bad day, you can always go to work, and just do more work and get allegation from that. It's was like a positive feedback loop because of a housemanship, everything is people are putting off things like family a lot more. And so that means that we can actually just work more, because we don't have these other obligations work becomes this thing that we can get so much meaning and fulfillment out of maybe or that we hope to. And that just sort of encourages people to throw everything into it. So the legislation has not caught up to the reality of people's job situations. So with the article with talking to jen's e with exp-. Planing having jen's e in their own voices. Explain what's going on for them, workwise whether that's someone who just graduated from college or someone who is low income in works. Minimum wage, or is low income and is trying to find a job through job Corp or something like that. Like, what is the legislation missing? What would make the future better for them, basically? Like what are they not caught up on? Oh gabby. I've already qualified answer that question. Deliciously piece the place of that got mentioned was about the sort of freelance independent work like how, how common that's become. Yes. If you do, gigging, you're not gonna have benefits, you're not gonna have health insurance. It'll be hard to have paid leave. I've you get injured like no one's going to be able to pay for your medical bills, stuff like that. And so where this was coming up was. People are saying that the legislation needs to find a way to like, build safety nuts for this kind of work, especially if more people are going to be doing that kind of work. So I think there's been moves to make like a portable benefits package. So instead of being it being attached to a job. It's just attached to the person as they go from, that's an idea that's thrown out there. So are there more of a lean towards towards socialism from young people to is that part of the I it came up in one interview it came up in one really memorable interview where this young man was talking about, watching Bernie Sanders during the last election in sort of Hughes in school and in school in San Francisco, and watching all of his, friends, basically, like deal with the weight of trying to put themselves through school. Also trying to pay off debt it cetera. Their lives are stunted before they start essentially. Yes. And use like you know what education should like? Everyone should have education and shouldn't have to be like, just for like, rich people using really moved by Bernie Sanders, but in terms of other conversations, it's like we were talking earlier about this is the river and you have to swim in it. I detected a lot of savvy, and I think they're so much more conscious of the social forces around them than I was even though I'm like three years older. Only three years older than some of these people. But what I also detected a lot of like alongside this really deepened precocious knowledge of what's going on right now in the economy in the world. This practical this put lean towards practicality and pragmatism sits, it'll be really curious to see how these two forces play out because they're a little bad that are kind of at all. It's yeah. I think a lot of this stuff will have a lot of long-term effects on this generation in no matter what class. So I just wanna I wanna leave off with, with one thing, a quote that stuck out someone talking about work, and they said, I kind of just exist there it's a place for me to make money, my company, bleeds, its employees, dry management could hire a lot more people, but they know that these people can handle it for a year or two. And once they burn out replaced by a fresh set it's a big meat grinder, a lot of my friends work fifty to sixty hours a week because they're given that much work. But I say you owe the company forty hours they pay you for and nothing else who. Say that, that's I felt that that was very indicative as a quote. Oh man, yes, this person is interview killed me. This was named person who was talking about how, you know, if you're having a bad day, you can always just work more. And he feels that management knows this, particularly among young people and can take advantage of that. Yeah, it sort of when you saying, you know, I just sort of exist there to me, it really blew my mind, because we've been, I think we have been told so many things about work, and what our relationship to work should be. You know, going back to the whole passionate thing. Or maybe you're not being paid a lot now but maybe you'll be paid more. Once you're like a superstar cetera et cetera yen. But would you say which is almost like nihilist, right? Like. And I'm getting paid. I'm there I can go. It's. It really it really shook me and it felt it felt very novel felt like something I don't hear my friends, articulate and also like, I think there's a stigma to sing something like this publicly and the final, there's a stigma around saying, you know, I just go to work for work. The fact that there's a stigma among young people to say that is fascinating. I think it speaks volumes about what we expect people to get and to put into their work. That was money as a production of Stitcher. Our show is produced an edited by Melissa, Yeager, Miller, and sound engineered and mixed Brendon burns are associated producers, Kristen Torres and are supervising producers Josephine, Martorana are executive producers, Chris Bannon are performed by Sam Barbara and was written by Mike. Kaplan. Zach Sherwin Jack Dolgin I'm Gabby done and I'll talk to you next week. Bye. Stitcher.
Shadow State: Murder, Mayhem, and Russia's Remaking of the West
"The Max Bergmann here for more of the asset podcast please go to our patriarch page at www dot patriots dot com slash asset podcast that's Pat R. E. N. dot com slash acid podcast. You'll hear the phone interviews with our roster and analysts. You'll also get more exclusive content from the acid team like our interview with the Chairman of the House Intelligence Committee Adam Schiff. Event reacting to Robert, Morris, testimony, and upcoming episode, following the mysterious trail of dead. Russians. Around the twenty sixteen election and a whole lot more. Don't miss out. Sign up today at www dot patriots dot com slash asset podcast. Of course, they would video a Bama on Donald Trump Ritz Carlton, and we know from all types of tasks in Prague that Donald Trump is beaten as being watched by. Security services pretty closely all the way back to his trip to Moscow ninety, nine, hundred a meanwhile in London. There was a pretty enormous espionage operation to you get close to the brakes tears cold secret. Diamonds Mughal. Serious sweetheart deals by by Russia's a man in London map prison hates the European Union and he sees brexit sweat diminishing the UK of the strange. London Paris Brussels. and. Be, Hastings, sanctioned and as far as I still hit. On the record interview you just listened to that and it was very clear is that he really is i. Mean he knows what? He's doing I mean. He he he's. He's DP St-. In. Russia fast he he he knows that tricks he knows how they're. Steel was more or less the first person to. Trump's subterranean subterranean. Relationship. Russia. NAFTA. Leninist idea. The Moscow isn't a state off permanent. If unofficial war with with. Washington and. Social anyone really appreciated that the depths which this is the case. As listeners I'm Max Bergmann coming to you from the mountains of Virginia, and we have a special episode today I spoke with Luke harding of the Guardian about his new book shadow state murder mayhem, and Russia's remaking the West. We talked about his conversations with Christopher Steele. The dossier Russian interference in the UK the more investigation in what to expect in the twenty twenty election. I'm expert in this is the asset. I'm Max Berg Minute Nissen's special road of the asset. I'm here with Luke harding author of shadow state murder mayhem in Russia remaining of the West. Luke thanks for joining me a Max Cranky media. So Luke WANNA sort of dive into this book because it's a fascinating read that kind of gives an overview of Russia's efforts really over the last five years I would say maybe going back a little bit further but it sort of goes through sort of the major events and incidents of Russia prank interfere in the West. But I want to. Start with maybe asking you would, which is probably the most the biggest newsworthy thing in the book, which is your interfere with Christopher Steele. And maybe you could describe how that came about in in what what you learn from talking with steel. In, in what I think I, public interview. Yeah well I it's interesting. I've seen stale pretty regularly regularly over the last four years I guess and Rota collision, which was my predecessor book to shadow state which I think was was the first major trump in Russia to to come out tonight, he went to see him about three weeks. Full US fee publishes dossier in January of two, thousand, seventeen and bang. The good. That he is sent a pardon in London Shakespeare and. I told him everything I was doing I talked by investigations, Deutchebanks, Donald, trump and he he revealed nothing he was he was very discreet, but while picks up all the information. told him and I you know I've been seeing pretty regularly. Ever since including during the last tumultuous few years where we had the muttering quiry for for two years, we had the reports. And we've seen this astonishing. pushback conspiracy driven pushback by Donald Trump, and the people around him to try discredit Chris Christopherson. Can quite interesting. The view on Christmas tell depends on on who you're talking to you because in the UK. I have to say he's still he's still a highly regarded very mind he went from I six full twenty, two years. He was a genius by in Moscow in the Nineteen Ninety S. Mak Gorbachev was that for the two. And headed Am I six Russia desk and lead the investigation into the two thousand, six Polonia murder of Alexander, Living Yanko killed by a couple of criminal goons with Radioactive Cup of tea and and so here in London he he's pretty well imagine the intelligence community and his his reputation is high and then the US. Especially internationally, I, think a lot of the mud. Thrown by by by Donald Trump and his supporters have have have stock I mean I think trump has tweeted about him. When I published by St, it was about sixty times. It must be now at ninety times says, he's failed spy he's he's ally he's a fraud. Etc.. and. That's just not true and the fact that Donald Trump said something repeats as this goes into into Becca chamber right. Wing Echo Chamber doesn't doesn't validate it and. I. Still I did in Victoria around Kota off his offices with all this was not to know after Helsinki and the kind of notorious meeting between trump and Putin wet where trump sided with with Vladimir over over his spy agencies who said, of course Russian meddling in the two thousand sixteen election, and still with pretty define I mean he he believes he still believes that his dossier is broadly accurate acknowledges that it's not flawless that it's Roy Intelligence, but on the key pillars off Russia's support for trump. Of cultivation operation of multiple contacts between the trump team and Russia, I think he's improved proved rise. Say finally those kind of doubt him and his veracity. How do you explain the widow slavish sycophantic relationship The Donald Trump has has manifested was Fatima mccutchen threat is presidencies the one stable consistent theme in in. In other respects is is completely crazy. Time in office. And I think I think compromise money i. think the fact that Putin treats trump like a like a KGB essays explains everything in really validates. More or less while still right in in in your book, you talk about one of the one of the ways that steel reputation as crying effort to serve sully his reputation in the dossier They got some the White House some credence from that with the F. B., I. D. report, and talking to one of one of steel sources in he had many. That appeared to sort of walk back into distance himself from some of the things he had allegedly told steel in in maybe you could talk about that. What was sort steals reaction to the FBI allergy report. Yeah, well, I mean steel has has has sort of he has a problem. which is that he went to publish about his Sosa toll say he went say he was subsidies where he he won't identify the person who? Was the primary source a lot on the dossiers. He's been announced by pro trump media following a leak, which itself is is pretty unprecedented but I think I'm going to speak for him. But what you have to look at is context said the primary subsoils. Behind the dossier, he has a very good track record as a as an analyst as digger as Judea. Guy. With interviewed by the FBI in two thousand seventeen, this is the time when. He was terrified he was terrified of what. Appraisals the might be from Russia I, suspect I for him but. He was worried. Faithful about his his life and you just have to look at someone else he cooperate with Western intelligence second scruple in my country full Gi Udall Asian, working from Russian ministry attachments who has swaps out in in the famous of of two thousand and ten have been living cloudy and Salisbury Information England. And was poisoned by by two. With with Nova novato lethal nerve agent, and you can see. That anybody who who'd be now this is cooperating with steal my sky would be terrified and so I think. There was a degree of of. Distancing by the from from primary disavow his own work whereas understanding is that Ashley his his his record was good. It was long standing that he came highly recommended and say for those who are kind of. Skeptical about what trump may or may not have got up here in Moscow full years as guardians. Moscow correspondent between seven and two thousand eleven when I was. Of the the country in. Deported and we had a series of break-ins by the FSP of the success agencies, the KGB into family apartment and were told. that. We were bucks that there was audio was video in the bedroom. and has be watched. We think. ME. And my wife. Intimately for for very long period of time and the reason I raised this. If they do that to a kind of troublesome british-american correspondent, he's writing dislodging things about abuse and corruption and sell it. Of course, they would video a bomb or donald trump in the Ritz Carlton and we know from all types of tattooing in. Prague. That Donald Trump has been has been watched by eastern security services pretty closely all the way back to his trip to Moscow nineteen, ninety seven. So it's clear that as a massive trump follow Moscow, it's clear that. That that will be tentacles events trump just in two thousand seventeen beginning all the way back on have met anybody not to steal but other fulmer top European intelligence chiefs who Doesn't believe. This is something the Russians do. So. Said really at the end of the day you have to ask south, it's not a question of. Whether, the Russians call stuff on trumpets. It's minute question of wall. In I think on on steel close out on steel. The press are now willing to serve concedes deal to trump and you saw that in sort of a recent New, York Times story where it said well, the dossier has been widely discredited in it's sort of dismissed steel and and I think it's largely just because you know the press like to sort of oftentimes showed himselves as being neutral and that sort of way for them to show themselves as neutral but I've been one. Issue is also I think there are. Orange elite or we need a lot of the what's in the steele dossier had sort of trouble defending him because it's hard to defend on the that isn't defending themselves. And his sort of reluctance out in the press, which in some ways, it's very understandable as also think especially in the US press has made him sort of mysterious figure that that even people who want to defend them are sort of royal. It's sort of difficult because you you don't actually know who he is and he doesn't have the same sort of reputation on this side of Atlantic but so I think that's sort of one kept waiting for him to do sort of Barbara Walters style interview. He will but he sat and he will an iphone the new at times piece was way to say it's been discredited I mean Donald. Trump. Saying something discredited doesn't mean it's Discredited and actually steal was more the first person to elect over. Donald. Trump's subterranean in sub trading relationship with Russia. Now, is that wrong I don't think so I I also think that he may be more forthcoming. If, if big if if if Joe Biden wins in November and then I think we'll a lot more information will be Kinda pump time I suspect that he will be more forthcoming I mean he he he sticking tire in the media water I mean I I did. Cost with him. Last week with with Damian Collins British MP. And as far as that was the first interview. That was me, it was it was Chris. And Damian and will. Listen to that, and it was clear is he really is I. I lost honest I mean he knows what he's doing. I mean what you make the dossier he he's he's deeply immersed. In, a Russian Faz he he knows that tricks he knows how they lie. He is across everything kind of strategically He makes points like the fat the Russian spies rollout wearing green uniforms. With jangling medalists that very often they are. They are charming English the on a Gawks or other intermediaries. That read novels That personable they their kids et Cetera, this kind of complexity bat which I think. Is sometimes lacking for I'd haven't seen any kind of patronizing way so that the US dingle over over Russia instead selling I think actually he's he's become collateral damage in a fight between trump's vehement apologists and those who think well. If there's nothing to see here, wise trump such a suck up mccutchen. Yeah. It's sort of the the the whistle blowers in in the trump world's. Tend to get sullied. Whether it's Alexander Vin men whether it's the whistle blower that. Initially blue the. Expose Ukraine or I mean steel in two thousand sixteen was the one sort of blowing the whistle that trump had teased bizarre ties to Russia and even if parts of the dossier are seen as you know not quite on on the knows that general theme that trump is has this. fealty to Putin is. Throughout unclear. I SORT OF WANNA shift topics in talk, which is another topic that is addressing your but but there's been a lot of new new recently in the UK and that's about Russian influence in the united. Kingdom. Specifically around Brexit and the release. Of this intelligence report that had been sort of Wyatt's over a basically pry was done before the British elections elections last year but kept under wraps in the primary release this number. What was your reaction to that report and? In. What is the extent of Russian interference in the UK well? This has been a huge scandal. In London because basically. This report written by a bunch of MP's across party group of British politicians was reading for publication in late autumn of last year and Boris Johnson Effectively sort of took it and stuck down his sock home refused to publish it and. I think would never publish it but for the fact that the his his placement on this committee was ambush by other MP's most of those and they brought it out a couple of weeks ago and what it says is his two. Crucial things by the way Kristie gave evidence to to this committee has Kobe you can buy. The. First is that. Theresa. May that then prime minister in two thousand, sixteen, hundred, Seventeen Boris Johnson, then British Secretary. Essentially refused to look at pretty compelling evidence of Russian interference around brexit insupportable. Brexit and the reason they wouldn't look at it is because D- brexit his Johnson's great project. And he didn't want kind of de legitimize what he regards us the will of the people and what what we know. Is. Is that the Brexit the brush breaks it operation and the Russian trump operation with Canada. Impaired out I mean I write him my book shadow state the two dramas overlapped an unqualified dramatic percent knew each other and say you know the troll factory and speeds pushing at Anti History Pro donal messages at the same time backing break says a meanwhile in London that there was a pretty enormous Spanish operation to get close to the brexit tears to. Invite some Aaron banks but he's businessman who donated about twelve twelve, million dollars. To. The BICYC- campaign which in this country a huge amount of money it was the biggest the nation finish criminal history I'm was being off a gold secret any diamonds Mu Gulled. Sweetheart. Deals by by Russia's Amana London now now, just refuse to look inside the report essentially said the the the being accused of feigning by government set by the British spy agencies by six at my full life. Here you would have thought would have seen this as a huge threat but for whatever reasons political reasons as usual reasons with squeamish and the other way, and the now the keep went went the rush report is that. It's very good on how hall class of of Brits have been have been bought up by Russian interests. I finale gawky interest something to the Kremlin some not but that's their lawyers. They're real estate guys. There are pairs of the Realm Lords. Senior EX politicians intelligence people pay AUSE. Uneven. I would add some journalists who who, on the Russians payroll and inform watts. Bill Browder, we will give this committee describes is a kind of West and. It's upsetting salmon DC. It's the same in America. There are plenty of people who who do the Kremlin's bidding. In exchange for very basic. Paychecks an I think. I would just lost. It was interesting about this whole story about Russia in the West in recent years is this. It's not it's not tale of far away corruption by by back KGB guys wearing leather jackets. It's it's it's a narrative off complicity by Western. Helpers have a well paid for the services where he of banking politics. The law? He do the Kremlin's work. For, seventy, about all corruption as much as it is about that corruption in I think just put a finer point on the on the banks donation. You know one of the things about British politics in America, we have this unlimited amount of spending. So now but but the spending art constrained and so at twelve million dollar infusion of cash. Can can really make a difference right in in British in a way that it, it may not have the same sort of impact here where the spending is. More out of control. Yeah. I Have Ryan the it's the school Moscow gold at about Russia? BREXIT's and I write the that Britain's. Antiquated. Electoral laws. Actual rules governing two nations what were practically written by a man wearing a medieval tunic or rough holding a quill and writing on parchment and in other words Electoral regulations haven't got to grips with. Digital campaigning with the kind of a knock it weld of social media which which. The Kremlin and companies like China. Steve Bannon. Have, really, explicit in a in a muscle way and what we know is that the leave the campaign that Johnson was the frontman full day cheech it broke electoral law there are there are still still question marks about web squeeze money for all the The commission said they didn't think it was his and then the National Crime Agency which is the. FBI look to this. I think about custody way and said Yeah you know we think it was his so yeah phony he's his exoneration but but. I looked at his business empire I. Find It in the Promo papers found him in the Panama papers this old offshore. Monkey trial stretching from Gibraltar to. Believes to to the British Virgin Islands and We Kansai that Russia supported banks we have the proof of that but clearly, this is a very mucky world. And the victorious vote team a now apparent Downing Street at the governments. And you know the Johnson government is quite similar to give the trump administration insofar as. Seems to have this kind of solitaire insensibility whether they bright rules and winning to cheat. If they think it says a higher end, which is that political pop. In. The main scandals year was simply that the British intelligence establishment didn't just decided not to look into what seem fairly obvious Russian interference and you know I sort of remember going on British television occasionally and even hinting at the topic are the notion that Russia may have interfered with Brexit was. Completely taboo seen as sort of off the wall and baseless. In in in. This is basically you know we oftentimes view our intelligence services is all knowing Rivera Wall Nokia And have to look at something. Director Resources to investigate and it doesn't appear that that that. Disservice that didn't happen in the Brexit kits. Yeah. And that's the main takeaway from the Russia report but bought by these MP's. That basically, the Russian government interfered in support of Scottish independence during the the referendum two, thousand fourteen. In the general election, two, thousand, nine, hundred, and of course, it date in support of Brexit because understand is that Putin? Prison hates the European Union and he he sees brexit his leg administering the UK of of a strange. London from Paris and Brussels and Berlin and possibly hastening end of sanctions. Many he he likes it well, what he do corrupt crony bilateral deals with with weaker states rubbing with Pavel. International. Entities. So so the Russians want to break said they were delighted when it happened in the same way that wanted trump and I think it's kind of dismay and. I didn't quite know how how it works in in Washington. But but for while I kind of thought well, at least pretty spies across it at least. Six. You know what what happened and sell them. What we've discovered is that they were not task though waiting for instructions from Downing Street to look at this look at this kind of Russian malfeasance over the referendum and these instructions never came. And the irony is that Ashley it's being. Without beating myself up here, it's it's really full into two journalists to kind of civic society to try to investigate it so I guess to me. This is one thing I've tried to do in my book shadow state, but will be like how Like cutting from the savage, he broke Hyphen Janet, scandal and Knox. hundred billion dollars of the capitalization of facebook to shine light on this because I think. Not as badly as it is in the US but but I think we've been filed by. Politicians who for whatever reasons don't want to confront. was having Russian. Interference continuing tap. Yeah. In you know just on that theme I think this sort of also applies to the Russian investigation in the Mueller investigation that we add here in the US. You know. We'll talk about more second but I think prior to Miller there's this FBI investigation that was launched in twenty sixteen. I think one of the IMI the big bombshell came out of that F. B. I. I. G. report we wrote this up in a report at the center of American progress titled The botched the investigation is that they didn't acted when the crime was happening when Russia was interfering in two thousand sixteen you didn't have this super aggressive investigation. In fact, the G report noted no they they were so intent on keeping investigation secret. That they kept serve the FBI headquarters, not a field office meaning it didn't have the same capabilities than. They also were just rotating people in and out. It was not treated as as sort of you know it was just people were coming in for I think ninety dates stints and then than moving on so they're expertise and you know there's a little. Note about the steele dossier. This deal dossier came in and actually came in I think into the New York field office but the New York field office didn't really know that there are actually people working on this in Washington, and so the still didn't actually get to them until October, the people actually doing the investigation. So you know you just had it was kind of a keystone cops affair that. In this was sort of came through in the struck Peter Struck and Lisa. Page conversation where it was basically, how aggressive do we WANNA be do we want to keep this sort of very quiet as we might with a normal counterintelligence investigation or go very aggressive because we need to really deal with this threat in the response was very lackadaisical, which then extended to the inauguration in which you had our The the MANAFORT's kind of GRU or Reggie. Are you right hand and our Russian brain come to the inauguration in not in not face questioning from the FBI So I think it sort of puts our intelligence community kind of in our intelligence communities in perspective that they look at what they're looking at, and if they're not looking at something or focused somewhere else you know you're gonNa have things fall through the cracks The yeah I think they're all. Bright Good. Very competent, very high minded people who work in the have gency intelligence insecurity space in the UK. But having said that this was an enormous failure but I've the operation to Bruce Trump. and the Russian push for breaks is an think it flows from complacency and Mold Matt flows from a failure to understand the mentality and thinking of. The Russian political leaders and the people around preaching. I mean they're implacably KGB that the. Brains Akobo brightens facie themselves. In a zero sum world in which Russia is painted a phenomenon forever against the main enemy the main opponents, the gladly participate in Russian which the United States of America and and. This is sort of Leninist idea the Moscow is in a state of permanent. If unofficial wall Quasar Wall with with Washington and. Social anyone. Even any abomination could people were. Really appreciated that the depths of which this is the case, and therefore you have these two enormous espionage operations one, another one in Washington. On in a in a Referendum or an election wet went very narrow scenario fifty-fifty practically, and they are pushing that crazy using trawls using espionage using hacking dumping operations that pushing warm result an. One I would say is that from from Moscow The election of all trump is seen as the greatest trauma in saved. Mush espionage history in a century should trump is is is number what? People got medals promoted the wards and so on I. Think Brexit is all sire up tab because it is. Seen publicly weaking weakening the UK in the your opinion. and. I. Think we've learned snap, but I I'm not sure. The we have reasons you pathway understand in America and. Because Boris Johnson. Refuses to guide I because he was the beneficiary in Austin rush maybe. You could describe where Bush Johnson was after his election victory to become prime minister for another. Win, person he just became. A new. Ward in the United Kingdom. Yeah I mean I sometimes feel we we're in kind of John Kerry. Novel. Because of the plotlines. The actually the plotlines kind of guy. I mean Jonah Keri is lost of of of of plotting and of the slow reveal and and wonderful kind of gray towns where whereas this this this Paul, the relaxed law is lured last. slapstick and and just kind of Chunky. Because what happened was that after Bardstown won his seat majority in December, he went to celebrate the next day at the House of Guinea an Alexander Lebedev now. was. One of my best contacts in Moscow. He's. He's a ex KGB. Fest Directorate Intelligence Officer He trained at the Red Banner Institute spent the Late One, thousand, nine, hundred, seventy by in London. Went into. Media. Banking, a became a billionaire just over a decade ago. London's evening Senate. East pepper in the independent and sunny of Guinea is a kind of gentlemen playboy who surrounds himself with cost young British advises. His articles and Throws runs evening standard and throws these enormous celebrity parties where. It's not just a few agencies that but everybody isn't Anushka. And Johnson went this party in December, which was the sexiest Beth a posse addicts on Lebedeva KGB's Fi I mean it was kind of to his critics ever. And it was a sign that. He really doesn't care. He really isn't. He really doesn't care about perceptions and I I would say that the Conservative Party in the UK. As comprehensively penetrated by Russian interests and qualify Russian money or Russian linked money. As as the trump people west in. Trump's first iteration in two thousand and seventeen it. It's an astonishing story and the the Epilogue, the kind of the. Carries that you have getting Lebanon Who I don't think it's an original thing. I can say that without being sued. To Guy was made a member of the House of Lords, he's going to be lured levels. I duNNo. Moscow. He's the Fest russian-born pair to sit in the House of Lords and he writes an angry obstacle for the. He's some guys right now. The man on Sunday London London satellite of the weekend complaining that his critics people let me guilty of Russia hating Russia phobia. And he compared his his travails to the victims of Stalin's show trials in the nineteen thirties now if I remember, right. The people in the show Charles were taken off. The sentence was pronounced shots in the basement of the Lubyanka whereas low Lebedev is going to be sitting in the House of Lords wearing a turban and a Red Cape adding a stipend of about five hundred don't. Make that. The one thing I say American is. Good to hear that other people also have similar simmered. But. I I want to shift gears and talk about the Muller Station and. Author of the for. Of the first book on the on trump's ties with Russia. The collusion, which is a fantastic read What was your reaction to the molar report in in what you're reporting? What? What's your sort of overall assessment of that investigation? Yeah. I have hauled chat about Mata in in shadow. State? Obviously I tried to ranked closely I sleep with the practically next to my bed an asset to reactions on the one hand. It was. Better document that I have since if is it did pump new information into the system. I. Mean we we we learned some unexpectedly can twisting and new details about about the guy pretends the by the fat votes for example, when Donald Trump made his famous Russia if you're listening, maybe you can find the thousand email emails that that tennis deleted that they spies Majia you working out of this yellow painted neoclassical building in the hearts of Moscow literally went back to the office. Lunch not that kind of volley of spear phishing emails to try and do precisely what Donald Trump. Suggests that. They do. And you know just hear a staff like the fact that Myth Mifsud that the wind Maltese professing you met with Jewish population in London and tell them the Kremlin had hacked till these DNC emails that he was friends with people from. The the twelfth. Petersburg. All the fact that one of Putin's AIDS New York named leaching. It is a- texted the night of trump's victory party and. Three words Putin has. So that was kind of intriguing and. Validating but an, it's an it's an enormous with with a big bang I think all the motor pool was an historic miss. An and I think there are number of reasons for that I. Think the biggest that he relied very heavily on the electronic record and what Americans told him, which is fine but he made no effort to dig deep into into Russian espionage surprise we can see to look intelligent sources in Moscow to. Untangle the chain of command what Putin say about meddling who'd he set to? How is this distribution through through kind of Russian espionage cycles and so on? His advocate of huge fighting was that he didn't follow the money. I, mean Donald Trump has been setting condominiums to to eastern gangsters system nineteen nineties. I met people who told me that. Trump as far back as nineteen nineteen, nineteen, ninety, one, nineteen, ninety two was known as the guy, the guy to five hundred dollars cash put it in hold on his desk a by an apartment. His model was. Yielding Money Fault full GBS people in Moscow or Minsk all Batu. all Astana and sell an imminent look at any of that and I I think two things about wrong one was. Serie handled how many people read every cog off in the metropole it's heavy getting I stay it's written in Legalese, and so I think would've filed is Kinda communication. An Morris disappeared off the was published on the other problem I think was fatigue I think Americans would just. So weary of the whole kind of rush saga by the time it came out that just through the hands up into sit I've got we we can't take anymore. Anina, plus. Would embody tending general played. Play the public played citizens in a muscle away essentially lying about what was unique mispresenting it sitting on the evidence. Waiting for the the the new psychic kind hurricane to kind of role in a roll out before we have the full facts he I think you know I I also think that serve I critical of Democrats also instead of putting in. Everyone's sort of put. On Robert Muller and. Muller I think in his communications team probably should have done more to sort of. Get a right size expectations about what they couldn't could not accomplish I. also think we made this very much just a legal proceeding as if he was and I think one of the problems is when the crime now that you're trying to prove is a conspiracy related to working together on an election. It's very you know it's it's not like Robin Conspiracy to rob a bank where you have this tangible amount of money that you then have to give up the assets and I think in. In Our podcast, we use this clip of Mitch McConnell in. You know there's a law in the US that you can't conspire with your super. PAC, you're outside workstation that's giving money in spending money just for your campaign and so what politicians do in raises famous video of McConnell on Youtube is about three minutes of him just doing stuff there's no audio she's just looking at the camera he's standing with his wife, all these sort of this montage of things that you would see. And what he thought, they just put it on Youtube and then his Super Pac in the news at to cut ads what is that doing the colluding with Super Pac now whether legally conspiring you know is probably not in according to the definition but they know of reviewing and I think that that's where you know the US we sort of became obsessed with the legal analysis of this and then molar. Unlike other special prosecutors of in in not simply Ken Starr but most special prosecutors are seeking to try to convict in fine crimes. It looks like Miller oftentimes is avoiding that yet. Even that said, you know the back end I I know that people on the more steam thought that they had provided enough goods. Congress. With the structure of justice but I think you're right that it just from it didn't it provided new details but one of the details have a lot of just raise even more questions about what was going on. The. Ice Right Max that N. he was kind of man not superman. We we thought he was this new kitchen. kind of hero who's going to WHO's going to swoop in and save us. Republican. And he he didn't. I think we we. Invested in him in a way an one may now we're trying to kind of myself to Roma Miller. I think reason I wrote shatter stages a six success to collision. was. To kind of go beyond actually I think had had gone had kinda cracked it that I wouldn't have been the book I mean by. The trump had no sympathy UK site. The fact that we had no proper reckoning investigational mersal inquire into Russian interference in this country so I so I needed to tell the story kind of dramatic. Non Non Fiction. Way, of. Thinking about it, I mean, you read the answers in motor. In the appendix from Donald Trump which were no I can't remember I. Mean it was real dog ate my homework stuff i. mean I describe it as a form of executive trolling I just get impression that that. We. Had the Senate blood and his nostrils. He didn't really want to bring down the big beast. You just wanted to kind of Trau- ran him. Which is why? This is a bit of a tangent but you. Brought it up with the the comment that that Putin has one that happened on election night You know that to me in the series of sequence of events that are actually played described in the Miller report that with Dmitry Peskov is in New York City the day after the election for the world chess. Championship. which is was headed by a Russian figure with ties to the Kremlin that had been frequently. Basically, used as a as a covert diplomatic vehicle for for the Russian government. And then Curiel Dmitriev who's later ghosts Seychelles meeting with. Suddenly, arrives in New, York as well to attend the chess championship and. It was a victory lap Max by by these guys was trapping lap. Yeah. I can't kiss him. Yeah he has. He say he got sanctioned. He was the head of feet at the chess championship. You'll say also, by the way I'm once said they haven't been can't alien. Spaceship but I mean. These these are all fronts kind of self Russian. POW and Y- The theme we see again and again in both in in Washington and New York and London is the ease with which fresh no potiskum penetrate. santis on our politics and a democracy, and it's a structural problem. I mean, the West is kind of open place in the same way that social media facebook twitter is open, anyone can do it. But what we're seeing very cleverly in the twenty, th century, these unscrupulous post, post-morten authoritarian regimes the. taking taking advantage of the poorest nece out that she subverted using the weapons of the West against West and I still owe show we fundamentally Russ that until we do this will carry on happening. Pretty set and it will happen again in the runup to November. I think the future surprises whenever and gets back from holiday. All, imagine that kind of lumped pancakes the fusion Nasi surprises loan away for that's a great segue to our final topic, which is you know we're in the midst of of macro election Vice President Biden, just pick Harris to be his vice presidential nominee. Were in now the homestretch or the for the election in November. G. You expect Russian interference to happen farm around Do you think it'll look the same or different What do you? What are you expecting over the next three months I I? I think the Russians will do something I mean, bear my last time round was a pretty big Intel conversation as you put it out by Christine will between people who are more cautious. About meddling directly in US politics and those who are more hawkish which were. A group of hotline led by Putin and. Those around him? I mean I think it'll be a cynical session this time I mean the point is the freedom wants trump stand power they see him as their candidate they see him as being uniquely destructive, even an divisive and just to be clear. Just to be clear, the Russians didn't invent. Donald trump the felicite represents, but they sat knee. Tried to help them along the way the fire was burning what what Putin is Palestine was pulled on the FI. So it was it was anger Ed kind of more combustible. So I think as a minimum, we'll see a social media operation. Institute of Trump I think trump loses there'll be. A massive sexual mania operation to suggest that he was the victim of fraud the poll is not legitimate the Biden cheated. And already, we see kind of congress between Russian propaganda, Kremlin propaganda and what trump is saying. I mean he's already laying the ground for that kind of Stab in the back myth. I will say I wouldn't be very surprised if something something is. T mails pretending to Ukraina by mcdumber tabs. In Oh table September on November and I said worry that the media will well full. Time shot they didn't do doesn't sixteen, which is kind of pull that stuff. Out there at sexy and it's it's noise actually story of two thousand sixteen that we never really quite got to. What was the trump Russia. And the big story. This time is what Biden any Cranham in this absent known story. So they'll definitely be something but I think. The Russians feel that have already what that they've achieved so much with Donald Trump Vaz. They may try to decide to not exactly since one out but take step back could because the fire is burning this fire everywhere this kind of cold civil war in America. That's how it looks like from the fall and they just have to keep that joing a that an emission is a company I. Think the thing that sort of keeps me awake at night is actually the NSA document that reality winner. Who got more attention for her name than the document that was actually by her but the document that she released highlighted two thousand sixteen that the Russians had. Successfully figured out how to penetrate. Election Vendor for the software for a lot of the the registration e- books where if you go to a a voting station in, you say your name and they look it up and they find your name in that they had basically spoof the email accounts of this election vendor and then sense more than one hundred emails to local election officials with Trojan. malware. Malware were documents saying please install A. Few a week or two out from the election. and. We don't seem to know what actually came of that effort why that effort was pursued. You, know if we're GONNA now that we're voting in this in this pandemic. In Properties were polling station will always been strong walling. Peluso at the primaries that have occurred. That it's sort of shrinks some of the targets for some of the Russians fiber actors and in that. That strikes me as one. You know we're already worried about chaos in our voting system and. Wouldn't take a lot to just sort of nudge us over the cliff in inherently chaotic election day here in that studio lack of investment in in election infrastructure. But again is sort of just taking advantage of of our our chaos already. Yeah. Yeah and just just as so to say that the the Republicans surprising conceive made no efforts to to improve election structure almost. Willing presient to do something and of course. Something does happen wake necessarily being the way you imagine you'd think they would they would cheat to help trump while they might do. Is. Cheat. To help Biden. said that this would be kind of protects reason trump to say as sheep. Biden cheat in the results not employed victor. Called knows what sit of awful causes she show how? You might be in off to that I mean I I sometimes ask myself. I keep changing my mind on this. Is. In. The race for the world's most. Dysfunctional country. I thought the. And it was the UK and then the US stole the trophy from hands and I'm not sure he's got the trophy but I fear come November that you might just win that competition Mex-. Number One. Thank you so much for for joining me. It's been real pleasure with you. not just today the last few years. Yeah thanks turn tremendous. The asset is a production of the center, for American. Progress. Action Fund protect the investigation and district productive Paul. Woody. Woodhall Max Bergmann Executive Producers and Peter Auburn senior producer. The asset is written by Max Bergmann and the good people at the Moscow Project Jeremy Vinick Kalua dessel and CNN Garelli and the team at protect the investigation and Paul Woody Woodhall and his cohort at district productive the learn more about Russian interference in the two thousand sixteen presidential election go to the Moscow Project Dot Org and protect the investigation Dot Org Please subscribe to the podcast on Apple podcasts or your favorite podcast APP and please leave a rating and review. Thank you. President Putin's annual marathon press conference but. The Senate he said is unlikely to remove Donald Trump from office for what he called absolutely far fetched reason why? The Democrats only decided to impeach president. Trump said. They lost the election. Getting along with Russia is a good thing. Not a bad thing.
911, What's Your Beer-gency?
"Hey before we get into this episode. We forgot some important details like we got a website. Guys we be be. And i think erin has actual sound effects for that. Chris refrained from doing that again. So go through the dregs dot beer. You can check out all the episodes there and you can actually send us voice mail for the show. Senator questions your comments right there. That's all you need to do now. Getting to the show all right and You know. I'm so prepared for this episode. That i forgot what episode number so i didn't even look up before but Around seven yeah okay. That's that's i can only count to ten so We're going to have to right. So there's chris there so we only according to him a few more episodes and left but we hope to go on for that and we have a special guest joining us from portland. Today you know are an instagram is nine one one beer me it is. Mary rose. Hello that was quite the entrance. If you've made to the podcast stumbling into the podcast no yes. Truly my fashion to what's up. Yeah well i mean like you were watching the bachelor so where there. Many leg beers consumed before the taping tonight. And no nine. This is like my. I fear that. I've had in perhaps a week. So having slowing down. I have been slowing down on drinking. So so why. Mike it's been They got a little out of hand there at the end of the year. I'm i do have to admit snow but you did a the sober february january january. Nope no you're technically ramping. Back up well gradually. As as i as i sit my very delicious Protect our winners pills from coast. Mountain or Friends of the podcast up in whistler. Mary what are you. What are you drinking l I had some beer mail from my friend byron in southern california. So i'm drinking a beer from anaheim breweries called bottle logic and it's just a west coast. It's pretty okay. I don't know. I feel like drinking so much. Beer in twenty twenty that. What is beer. You know. i'm like. I'm don't wanna say over it but i love beer but it all tastes the same. It's like oh man. I'm your i'm to have an extra Existential here in a second. Go on yeah. let's hear it. What are you. What are you enjoying well. Since is currently residing in portland. I figured might as well pick up a portland brew. But then aaron in luke or army that apparently they may be also contract bring out of alberta. So i don't know where the prude. But i am drinking. The juice invader ip a from great notion bring and quite a few beers from great notion brewing of trickled their way up to be see and they've got some hype on social. I this is actually my first beer. I've ever had from great notion. And it's a pretty easy drinking hazy. I'm actually really enjoying good. I feel like with great notion. I never go for their iep or pails or he's he's it's typically the sours that they're known for. But i'm glad that you like it. Because typically when i buy those beers i'm like a little disappointed but cool right on. Do go to that burri often. I'm about ten minute A ten minute drive from the one in northeast portland. There's one across the reverse of to within like twenty minutes and then they've opened up so many in oregon and washington so they're they're definitely expanding so you're if you're you see you could actually drive down to seattle which probably won't be too far and now again your kovin. That's true. well. This is why we wanted to have you on because we kind of delivery garishly through you in portland anyway because I i was going on. It was gonna be my fifth year streak of going cask barrel house for their glue creek Their winter beer and could not happen because of covid. So here is that were they. They like let someone open it up with some hammer. No no it's there Cherry sour served hot with orange wedging cloves. So i've never even done that. I've been here for two and a half years at school. We go sorry. Can you explain that again. Yeah so it's so as their creek. The cascade barrel houses creek and they do a hot crash on it and then they serve it with An orange in clothes and it's like mulled wine meets beer so Interesting and they only serve it november january and you can only get into the barrel house in portland cool. Luke what are you enjoying. I'm having a festival. Express american pale ale with mosaic. And cascade from a new brewery that just opened up Pretty close to my place. Here in new west It's called studio brewing. So i think yesterday was their first official open day so ripped it over there after work to try a few beers and what is beer anyway. That's what i'm saying right now. I'm kidding i mean kind of read but i'm also kidding. The beer is really nice. It's it's a great kind of hazy. Pale ale overly bitter easy drinking and glad to be drinking it on a thursday night and logistic clarify year new s. They are in south burnaby. Yeah but i'm kind of on the west side of new last in their on of on the southeast side of burnaby so like a ten minute drive camaros. You're originally from texas right whereabouts in texas before your big move to portland. I was raised in austin texas. So i lived there for the majority of my life and then i went up to north texas for about five years migrated back to austin. Austin is the best part of texans than everyone acknowledges that thoroughly so so i was there for a long period of time than ended up making my way up the portland which is pretty similar to austin just way weirder like we take the cake on weird. No yeah no like keep portland. Weird like through. Yeah i mean. And that's austin's slogan cuba but like lawson slogan is moreland weird. That's all my god. Oh my god. Y'all are nuts sir but just current events and stuff i mean are your family down there because i mean texas couldn't handle the cold this past week so yeah it's been pretty crazy in texas So a lot of my friends have lost electricity. My parents have been fine. They haven't experienced any electrical or water. Outages totally in the clear which makes me happy but a lot of my friends haven't had power for like three or four days. And it's i mean. I had a power outage for one day. It lasted four hours. And i thought i was gonna like you know thought i was gonna. I don't wanna get more bed. But anyways i was like i can't do this but i can't imagine three days on zane rate so how out of the ordinary is like on in your experience. Living in austin how cold did it get in the winters. It never snowed. It never endure getting a foot of snow. I'm like you're you're joking you know face. Yeah i mean. I lived there for ninety seven so like two thousand and like eighteen nineteen and it never wants snowed like if it snowed it would be sleet and then it would just dry up and that would be like one day the next day it'd be like hot so for it to be this cold and to last week is just insane like it's it's truly leave wierd still they're probably still playing. Longhorns games though right football doesn't shutdown football never shuts down. You're probably right exactly. Yeah we got Makaay just probably in a speedo out there. I'm glad you brought up mcconnell. Hey 'cause i wasn't going to do but why is this thing. I just read his book. I mentioned on another episode Oh you love him. Let's say before we started the dregs. Chris wanted us to start a podcast. Just about matthew mcconaughey initiator. Oh no way on. So my sister's fiance His kids go to the same school that mcconnell as kids go to. It's a stupid prestigious. All right all right but Yeah my sister's like yeah my my fiance runs into matthew. And it's weird. So that's insane. Mike does he have chats with them. Like matthew design. Hey jason. how's it. Going man means cool and all that probably this guy is a british accent so i feel like anyone who has an accent in taxes. Like instant best friends so it wouldn't surprise me. Canadian accent go over in a oh go greats actually if you just throw the a is everywhere. People go crazy in your arm. Sorry like the way you say. Sorry story that one. I can imagine matthew pulling up the school and like every time he pulls up like into the roundabout in front of the school. It's like a. It's a lincoln commercial now. Open up the doors slow. Polls down the sunglasses and you're like are cut but there's no crew there. I love that. And he's playing with his dominant index finger. And you're like what are you doing. Yeah all day. That's exactly what he's doing in his lincoln so cool voice over for the ad to then being recorded. yeah exactly that. Nobody's recording this. What the hell are you doing embarrass me. So how did beer find. You really like what. What made you start a beer instagram account. I don't know i'm just always liked fear Even when i was underage drinking downtown on six three and just gravitated towards beer versus any cocktails which is kind of weird for a female in like two thousand and nine. I don't know all females like never drank beer. I was like that one person. But i don't know it just grew into an obsession and then my brother-in-law hebrew in austin and then that got me down another worm hole but Yeah craft beer is definitely feeding over in the past like five six seven years. So do you remember what beer you started drinking. Yeah the cheapest ones. It's called a lone star beer baby either that or ribbons mcconnell in true detective lonestar. Descend all over does it. I mean it's honestly the cheapest is achieved. Good solid like crappy. Beer you know and it has it has good labeling and i love it so it's i actually have one in my fridge. I haven't i haven't drinkin- in it. It's been there since september. it probably should. I probably should do like shot down with that. One schalken sunday thursdays hugging there. Oh my god. I worked more. That's why bring in the bills. Baby come on. And i am a little disappointed that she said lone star beer there because i'm I'm a rewatching king of the hill. And i was really hoping for alamo beer there but that's nonexistent. I know but like you know it could be like one of those things like how. There's like duff beer in argentina. Because they're getting around some copyright thing you know like maybe there's something in austin how do they call it duff in argentina. How do they get around. It is just like misspell it or get. It looks like duff beer okay. Interesting is called. Do f- duffers. It's all in the pronunciation. I've got a question for you. What when when you were craft beer in texas What was your favorite cropper. either up in university. I would spoil myself with this one beer That was made in new orleans. I'll bitta and it was called purple haze. I don't i can't went. Is that exactly as i. It's not easy it's like a pale isn't it. Yeah so the. I guess that one kind of got me into it when i was when i had a couple extra bucks and mike i didn't want to have a pabst blue or alone star like my typical goto. I would get that That beer and i felt so fancy because it comes in like a bottle form with like the neck. And i was like. Hey yeah yeah. I'm looking at it. Now it's it's pretty sweet looking it's a raspberry logger is that right. Oh yeah yeah. Totally one hundred percent. Yes that's it. I don't know if it's like. I don't know if it's actually owned by corporation like i don't know if anheuser busch owns it now or if it's actually a you know it says here it's bruton. Alberta every beer apparently is brewed ann arbor. Are they owned by anyone or they just every locally owned and i are both checking it out online right now because we are the were head researchers for the drugs but the problem is if it's not on the front page of the website. Yeah figured out. How high links work on websites. So they say they're independent. They got the independent craft stamp on the about so assume they're still independently owned if they've got that makes me happy. That's school i feel like they're doing jimi hendrix. A little dirty They've registered the purple haze mark. I'm assuming this is after jimmy hendricks purple as oblique so definitely. Yeah me while. I drink this beer nicely. Oh god look at full able to get it. Yeah for sure with the will. I mean it's been there for a long time so they haven't gotten suits accused. Let's just do a cheers. The spurrier cheers beata. Now i know they have it in the fridge down a louis but stationed in bellingham on the border opens back up again guys and we go down for freedom weekend I feel like. I'm picturing really like canadian flag outside the window of the car going across the mortar like needs to become a documentary. I just feel like it's going to be a weekend of shenanigans. Everybody's been talking about like their big thing that they've opened up. I've been saying this since the lockdown defined a limo with a hot tub in a back from like the eighties movies. Like you know you'll get a pickup truck through a fricking tarp in the back there. Biden's degree. yes that's what we're talking about in the big city here. We have them now. Roy they had this jacuzzi boats in seattle. That looks pretty sick. Which is weird because like why are you in a jacuzzi in a lake guy. You want to jump in the lake. And i'll just in the jacuzzi that float on the lake but in this jacuzzi. Starting like i was talking to a guy in ontario the other day and he was talking about Going out ice fishing this weekend. And i'm like oh yeah you're gonna drag your shit out there you know. And he's like no no no no now. It's all taken care of you walk in there. It's already heated with electric heaters and everything. And you just drop your line in the thing. And i'm like where's the excitement in that all works done for you. I think when i picture ice fishing i picture. The best part is getting to drilled a hole with that giant. Dan rea driver. Yeah like i don't even need to fish. I mean maybe if that extremely violent looking drill bit causes a few fish to come out of the water while drilling then so be it. But i feel like that's my days done man can do that crack a couple of stars after that and you're good to go to forget your name hell. Yeah so. what's happening in portland. Mary mainly like What's what's the dining and drinking experience. Like in the land of covid times aaron aaron. If you think it's going great it's absolutely not okay so portland is quite dead it sucks. We've been closed down for a while. Like kate brown or governor shutdown and we haven't had any like indoor seating very sparse for seating since november plus like the weather conditions. People aren't going out as much so A lot of cinco it like honestly. I have not have not gone out. It's been like it's indoor living for me. I feel like a hermit so doing well portland's great. We did actually open up. Twenty five percent capacity it is slowly opening up at. Its you know a lot of people are staying indoors plus the weather conditions and I think people are starting to get used to this cove advice and staying indoors more or less and just spending more time with like friends and family at their own dwellings. So it's it's different. I think twenty twenty has changed a lot of us and changed the way that we function in live and hopefully for the better right. Hopefully we've picked up hobbies and we're more resourceful with our time. So how's everything in canada. While i mean like i love the airlines like we cleaner planes and i'm like what did you do before they definitely did not before and bi weekly in our planes they mean as you enter the plane they hand you a wet wipe that is rubbed down every part of your seat. Four with then is this kind of gross. You're our yes so we're doing the dirty work for them. That's great exactly. We're all just working for airlines at. This point is still paying them to work. They laid off all of their cleaning staff and the equipment white one and then they tack on an extra cleaning feet your ticket. It is all about your like what's the wet. Wipe upchurch whites free. No desire to get on a plane anytime soon but speaking of which and this ties back to the bachelor there in the beginning it was my last trip was to durham new hampshire where i attended bernie sanders. Rally show was that that was my last trip and coming out like i was. I was so the whole thing started. When i was going to boston to visit my friend. And he's like man on your last night here. Do you want to go to a concert and like yeah sure sounds great. Who we're going to go see. He's like oh the strokes. I'm like fuck yet. Dude like tickets and he goes. Oh it's free. i'm like what he's like. Yeah we got to go to new hampshire. And i'm like what and he goes. Oh probably should've said it was a bernie sanders rally. I'm like okay. Well now this makes a whole lot more sense. So yeah so we went up to durham to go see the strokes but it happened to be a bernie sanders rally. And so yeah. I saw the strokes but it was a monday night and it was like ten o'clock and i'm like oh there's a bunch of stuff that's about to close so You know better and better get to the pub real soon rate so run over there and i somehow walk in the back door even though i'm on the main street and i walk in and i'm greeted by sixty women in stadium seating watching something on a big screen and they're all watching the bachelor so i had to like walk past them in like the awkward shadow of you know going across a projector screen as they're all the bachelor as i go to the park. So the if you hit like a dozen roses into the bar honorees timing. That'd be the start. Your own little mini bachelor. Oh i love that show. It's so good. Have you watched the bachelor or the bachelorette no is there. Something equivalents that in canada. Yeah it's called a recording the dregs episodes and seeing the dramas of lucan their partners doing laundry back to the cats. It might be just as exciting i. i don't know. I don't probably honestly. How many cats do you have. We just got our eighth but there are on the way. I just put him. I got an amazon prime so it should be. How many letterboxes do you have for cat. Because you know we just have to so. We lost our cat sort of right before the holidays and we right after all the shelter and adopted two kittens to just because they were bonded pairs right so neither of them wanted to go alone. At least that's what they told us so. We took them both long queue. What are their names while. That's kind of an issue here because own thing and then i called them and other. So they're confused. Yeah but the names that i have for them are lizard squid when students while that's interesting so not only are they confused about what their names are but they're also confused about what animal they he's saying your coming over here squid. I got some food for you. And then i'm a cat like i'm not a squid. Like what the hell you have a cat too right. yep. But i'm not really by being with wizard in squid but that's cool. I like it is on the interesting. Well i don't brooks names most like let's just do a little gem says year on what we should name your cats. Okay so the other names are otis. And opal yeah. I like that way better. The she's got a on on serious. Otis an opel. Yeah sounds good. I still voted lizard in squid. Because i feel like it's like the making of a rock band or roadies for luke's rock band. Exactly one man. Dan but there is there chilling in the background with their hands up but speed of animals. Mary rose you. You're like the top sales rep for like veterinarian Pharmaceuticals right on the west coast. Right really. I really don't like to brag about that but this is accurate we years. You're specifically in sales for like compatible. Nets yeah so. I have a question. Oh no here we go here we go. This is going to be an hour. Luke just talking about his cats different. I love you go list. She's not a veterinarian loops catholic charity. Like oh this isn't behavioral Question isn't it luke. No it's not no so our cats became They with from the shelter. They were kind enough to include a upper respiratory infection for both they came with govan. It's close it's concierge. It's totally normal. Okay go on. But they both been coughing for a few weeks. We've taken them to the vet few times. They've been on a couple of rounds of antibiotics. They still are. Hopefully everything's going well. They have bronchial pneumonia now but I think they'll be okay. They're they're acting like like do they have lots of energy still anyways the medicine that we're giving them right now. They're both on a certain antibiotic. I forget the name off the top of my head but it's vanilla flavored. What might go now. My question is a two part question. Who that's my medicine. What is it we on recap product. I'm trying to. I might go silent here for a second. Grab it and be right back. So as luke takes so when you hear invoice send it to luke not the drake's i. I'm just assuming that one of his two questions is Is it fine for a human to consume. Because it's the out. I've been feeling a little Coffee leads all right. i'm back. it's called chlor. Palm comecon palm. C. h. o. r. p. a. l. m. Now my drug don't know what that is. That's okay I think my question is who does the taste testing for this and who would think that cats would like vanilla and my question is somebody recently told me that. This is expired children's medication. I think why. I think. That's was that greg conspiracy theory guy who here's a tin foil hat right up there with this. So my question is so that would explain the flavor but now manila flavors the question As far as like why vanilla flavoring with different flavor tuna sure I don't know with cats like it's harder with liquid medication. There's a lot of interesting flavors. We experiment with cats like we vanilla flavor. We have cherry flavor which is kind of weird to me as well and The obviously it's hard to it's liquid. Isn't it yesterday. yeah so Sure it's hard to administer. I don't know cats are just hard to pill in their hard to give medicine to. So i think it's all sorry did i don't know i don't know how to answer. This good. seems very on brand for cats. You know they're just like difficult to understand like they aren't really like anything but expect you to love dogs cats staff cats. I like that. yeah. I'm okay with that. Why hope your cats are okay. Upper respiratory diseases pretty commenting cat so early thing. I think they'll be fine. It's just it's More than anything is just been stressful. Last week's Stressful for us but also stressful on our wallets because they both have blood tests. This is their third round of antibiotics. A couple chest xrays each and more to come down. Oh my god at check that it's the the infection is you know moving along. You should get on insurance for your cats. If you're going to continue this. Yeah that's the thing is now. It's a little too late to get insurance. Not are you kidding. This is an okay time to do. It doesn't believe insurance. He thinks a form of gambling up. Erin oh wow yeah. I mean i'll look into it but i feel like with the pre existing condition. They might not cover us. He should be fine. It's a common thing. It's like a chronic disease Cures itself after antibiotics. I feel like this is like when i just re-enrolled myself in my corporate benefits when they ask you. Are you a smoker or a nonsmoker. Like you would select nonsmoker for your cats. Even if they've got a smoker's lung badly got cheaper. That's just what i'm saying. Dill yep catch new drift. So mary rosie been in portland a few years now. Have you ever come up to canada. No i really want to. It's not that far of a drive either so vancouver's definitely on my to do list. But given your comment earlier. It seems that the borders are closed. Have y'all seen fits greek. Oh wonderful is the canadian. Show your will. Yeah because it was filmed in canada. Anyways i'm glad obstinate never mind wants move on most things are filmed in canada. Aren't they. yeah. I think the bachelor is funding. Can on ever only god savage. Well then there's that. Famous hong kong nights with jackie chan. Where he's having that fight and they turned the cameras. The north shore mountains really. Yes oh jeez. I love shits creek. Oh my god. Moro can't get enough of i. David i god did you bins that whole thing here in the pandemic i did. Yeah see. i won't touch four episodes and i was like. Oh my god. This is so predictable. I'm gonna stop this show because they're rich people now they're poorer. They're like feeling sorry for themselves. Story for themselves and delake in practice. Managers was like no. You need to give it a go. Like just finished first season and i did and i just got hooked like it's just it's well written. It's so funny and they go by really quickly. So yeah i definitely been shared over over twenty twenty and i've watched it again like i really enjoyed the show a lot that that's like you got as much dedication to it as luke does with the office so I've never seen the office lucas. Good what oh. My god on the flip side. I've never seen shits creek new. Oh my god. It's creek on our end. Well into because sabrina watches it. Um so i. I kinda tuned in two episodes here and there but you know what dan levy. I used to watch him on the hills after show back in the day in high school i would watch the hills because he was only. I'm a sucker person. Draw for a little bit of reality. Tv drama on canadian mtv much music do the hills after show and he was hilarious on that so own the fact that he's gone from that and now is like a very legitimate actor he just hosted a snl. I knew waiting to see that. When is it good. That was a good one. Now but the canadian virginal scotch when version the schedule nightlife. That's actually big in the states. To only in north dakota the top ten kilometers montana north dakota. That's that's it's whatever they can get spilled over from the transmitter over the air but the rabbit ears. Okay so mary. Rosie do shotgun sundays. That's that's your big thing you do on instagram. What is the highest. Abc the shock. You've done so. I've never shotgun stout but if someone gave me a stout and probably do it. It would probably be awful. I mean can you imagine sean. Getting style shotgun too tall boy of seven and a half percent. Cascadia dark ale. So got you shotgun to that. What is the spinnakers one I don't know what is are anymore. Because i'm in canada but was four hundred and thirty seven mill was that there was a tallboy. Can so yeah. Oh my god that sounds like death. The highest is probably like eight point five and then i was very busy but there's been times where all do a shotgun and it goes like just embarrassing. It's like very embarrassing. And mike awful in like i'll have to redo it. I've done it. I've done shotguns back-to-back dog pens and no one to like you do take two. Oh yeah so. I'll take i'll do a shotgun and then i'll re watch it and i'm like i could have done better or home and i would really bad like i got a stopwatch on. You're just like two seconds faster. Yeah something like that. It's been a while but all redo it just back to back and it's very bad decision like probably the worst decision i could ever do and Yeah i live to tell the tale. So god and i had the bloopers just to show but i think i deleted out of pure embarrassment while. You're such a pro at this. Though you have your own custom made shotgun key right. Well not really no. I mean there's a there's a. There's an aaron come on. I'm not that official. No high boys have a shotgun tool that. Is i think quite popular the keys. That's like frat boy like that's like mom-and-pop kind of old school way to do it like if you're floating the river yeah just give me your keys. Pop this babble open but there's a slight tool looks like Brass knuckles so you like put in between your index. End your middle and there is a. It's a tool and essentially you just pop it and you shotgun it You can buy it literally. It's they're not even. I'm not even sponsored by them. They just sent it to me. Like i don't even know why they sent me promo code. No they said coach. Shymkent shotguns indies. Did they send this to you after you started doing shotgun. Sundays yeah. There's been like three companies that have given me their stalking tools or the one that i use every week is the one that like works best for me but yeah have you ever done a. Have you ever thumbed a beer. So that's like the airpods the air pocket when you tilt it you just pop your thumb rate in the through the aluminum. I don't think i had that much strength to do it. Yeah strength is no. I did it one time and no ear. You sound per week. I will take that as a compliment because i look weak can vote for that. Yeah christmas breaking owns when he stands up. Yeah yeah exactly. I'll just have to youtube. That or dislike will look it up on I can do it with my thumb but on tiktok there'll be a dance involved so oh yeah Maybe too complex I have a funny funny shotgun story from like actually a trip in the states. I went to san francisco with my family. It was probably like six years ago but we were. We taking the trolley kind of downtown area and Kind of the end of the day we were going to a giants game so we we at one point popped into a liquor store and kind of me and my brother picked up a tall can and we got my not my dad to film us shot gunning and i made the mistake of grabbing like i think it was like you mentioned you shock. I'm like an eight and a half percent beer or something like that. I think i shock on like a was probably like it might have been a double. Ip a or something but it was like eight percent. And i remember like kind of partially falling asleep on the bus to the stadium and regard to the stadium. I kinda had beer in hand hotdog in the other hand. Were all excited for the baseball game and next thing. I know my mom's waking me up and she's like chris you cannot fall asleep at the giants game. Are you kidding me. How are you and to this day. She still grinding my gears about like being at this baseball game with like if you've been to the giants stadium. It is the most epic view of the harbor in san francisco. It's like how could you fall asleep. But i'm like mom it's the sun is setting. We are. I like in this nice comfortable chair. We i've just had a beer. It is like a relaxing atmosphere. Like how could. I not fall asleep this summer so was warm to exactly. I'm like this is a perfect time for a little nap from innings. One two three. I come on like why. Why are you coming. So yeah she. She doesn't let that one go and that was the last time you shop ending eight point something. Wnba that was the one and only time. Yeah after that. I think it was You know maybe five percent. Max right so when mary rose finally comes up to Vancouver here what beer. We shot gunning. I say we do fat tug. that'd be that would be very muscle. One knows what is it. It's it's our. It's our big boy so big. Boy what a. I don't know about that. Aaron i've shocking and lived to tell the tech gave one in like a tallboy numb three thirty three thirty cans like regular candidate. Okay i'll do regular can all day. That'd be nice. Welcome welcome to canada little. Hey how you been meet meter right at the border. Just as the sounds like world. Hazing walk into that. Yeah he's mir then technically. We could do that now because peace park is still open so we can meet in the park. By the border. Nita have the arch. Yeah we meet at the arson. Shug and under the peace arch de omega public eye. Contrition of enforce law enforcement office. I always wonder who are the people that are actually like in that park. Like are you jumping out of your car while someone is still driving then jumping back in the car after you've taken photos or are you actually parking and then getting back in your car and then getting back in the borderline after like i've never really understood. Well understood that there is an actual parking lot there and people go to hang out. There is like but you lose rather you hang loose. Yeah yeah yeah. The blaine blaine peace arch their per. What's the craftier blogger. Instagram or seen like in portland like is there a pretty good community Yep just curious 'cause in vancouver where we're at like there's a pretty solid craft beer media community. That's kind of grown. I would say pretty significantly over the last four to five years like when we started van pours for example back in two thousand fifteen. There is maybe only a handful of people when you go to advance. You'd see some familiar faces but now there is so many people i feel like every week. There's like five new instagram accounts. That are kind of dedicating to just logging. Their experience crappier industry. But just kind of curious what. It's like in portland i. I don't know anyone in portland in the craft industry as far as like no. I don't know anyone aaron. Do you know anyone in portland. I mean ava had one and then she kinda dropped off. And then steve just as marketing style rather than id expert girl the now she lives in. She doesn't even live in portland now. She lives in eugene. Yeah there's literally no one in portland that is representing the craft industry at all. I know like some professional beer writers. They're like yeah. Yeah totally but like as far as now there's the casual blogger Kind of instagram. There's not a big cooling around no not at all like or else. I wish i would be there. Yeah ralston. we'd be friends. Hopefully if they interesting. I would have thought portland would be so like like nine couvert three. No there's more like beer bloggers and victoria than important. Yeah yeah rates. Well if you find a couple of portland let me know so that i can like friend them. Is it a bigger foodi seen in in portland compared to more like crappier focus. Yeah for sure. Because i started a food one just still. I keep up with like local stuff. That's opening up in is definitely more of a presence on the food scene versus beer scene. Which is like kind of odd for me because coming from austin comparing boston to portland food. I prefer texas over oregon all day. So it's weird for me to know that the food seen on a social platform is outperforming the beer just because our beer versus texas beer is obviously better. So yeah it's it's weird. It's definitely like bizarre that it's out that way. I would say that the food seen usually is Is typically much larger kind of community than the beer. Seemed like i know in vancouver massive like foodies seeing and you you look these accounts like i'll find a new account every week like a food blogger and they'll have fifty thousand followers and i'm like how did i not know about this person until this. It's kind of crazy. But i mean not. Everybody drinks but everybody eats right. Well you'd hope so. What are some of your favorite places to eat in portland. I win for just for context. I went there a few years ago with my fiance. And you know we got a check out a few pretty solid restaurants. I think my favorite would be screened door Older for brian. Yes one hundred percent so there is kind of like i don't know like a May become like a diner. Old school diner by. What are some other places. You like to eat in portland. It's very asian influenced. So we have a lot of thai and chinese in general so we have a lot of usual spots. I'd say my number one favorite place to go into portland is een it's e. m. and essentially it's a fusion between barbecue and thai food so they have a lot of curry's with burnt and briskets his literally the bomb like they should always pair go together after like eating eating that addition it's very small menu and i feel like when there's a restaurant that has just like five items. They're all going to be super solid. So that would be my number one spots ago fried rice with brisket in its own is good an out of all the the barbecue portland. I mean coming from texas. Obviously like we're nolan for low and slow barbecue like that. We're just known for barbecue. Hello so coming up to portland. It was definitely a disaster trying to find like good barbecue. Just because people recommend a spot. And then i would go there in. I would be just horrified that they would think that this was like good food. Good portland but compared totally but match out of all the Barbecue spots that. I have gone to venture out to portland. Which has been. It's been a handful. Just because i want tacos and portland does not have talk. Does we have burritos. it's Hate it so anyways. Matt's the best barbecue i've found important yet. And that's the That's the barbecue joint teamed up with enough so it's potty which is Thai spot and then they ended up teaming up matt so it's like the fusion i said so yeah emas really good. There's another spot called bays chicken. I love fried chicken in that spot. It's hard bays is really good and The place across from modern times. I always get drunk and go there so good. I forget the name of that place to because so hot did you know. I don't remember names of food places at that point. I'm like oh. Yeah so. I i love that little like outdoor food court thing in the summer. It's like kind of across the street from little beasts which is like my favorite place to drink beer too great spot now just because they have blankets he can just like put it out in the grass in just like all. I love that like so little beasts. chris luke. It's basically like an residential house in like a neighborhood of portland and it's godly this huge front yard backyard and you can just lay on the grass and like just drink beer as if you're at your buddies place we we're concerned whereabouts in any of that stuff decision. The one thing. I thought was cool about portland when i was there. Is it the downtown. It feels very small like you can walk across downtown in a think it was like fifteen minutes like he can kind of walk in across it So it seems very like a horrible. If you wanna downtown differences the few different places to drink catch. Transit can go across you a little bit of shopping. Then you can walk back to your hotel on. It's like it doesn't take long. Not all three though chris with k. Fifteen minutes is my one hour probably fair enough. That's why we got little. That's why when we go down to portland the little red light red wagon and just be toan lou. Radio flier very spread out pressure. I mean the the one in Portland that i love. That isn't there that isn't a berea. it was a riot. I'm so sad of that places gone. But i've never even heard of that spot. Oh it was so good. He likes ciders. Whoa yeah you got you got you know. Switch it up every now and again decided not big in portland We have like one cider brewery. That ain't know of that's solely focused on ciders. Otherwise like couple breweries will have a site on tap. But it's not like a main focus in portland no is it. Big is getting a really big and bc. I think because we have so many wineries like we have so much fruit like at her disposal me. Yeah yeah yeah makes sense. I mean it's just so sugary. I'm just not into drinking apple juice. And i'm getting so many calories. Even though i'm sure fucking a hazy as like no better than well i then have had a good cider yet. So just going to say that we need to introduce insider. Yeah yeah is maybe we can send down a canadian cider to shot down on a sunday. Now no agua. Speaking of canadian cider are friends of the blog Windfall cider jeffrey. To yeah. there's the podcast. I should say They're opening up a Taproom in lower lonsdale in vancouver I believe this year but they They've got a location location. So that's going to be pretty exciting because most of the series There's no real cider like or at least cider tap room's in proper vancouver it's gotta go to. The outskirts were the actual orchards higher For most of these ciders so from one to open in kind of improper vancouver is pretty exciting. Yeah and the that's gonna be in the whole shipyards district there with all the other berries got north points beer your house a funk The new one that just opened the The holiday the mexican restaurant slash brie and they don't have britos. They specifically say no burritos. Okay well. I think it's come to that point in the episode here every week. And every time it's time for everybody's favorite segment stanford luke's moment wisdom luke. What's what's on your mind. And what is your. Oh jeez biggest moment with already educate. Well i think since we had a bit of a discussion about a medication for felines it would be just more of a warning than a word of wisdom is specifically chlor palm given two and a half mills by mouth twice a day for every twelve every twelve hours. You're pretty much working in a like a chocolate fondue restaurant as a busboy. You're cleaning you've got gotta see this litterbox i woke up this morning and we have the litterbox in the shower of in the second bathroom now and i swear to god. I'm cleaning grout later tonight. So just maybe get some probiotics to mix with your cats food. it's i don't know. I don't know what it does. What any experience on anybody else's in here with what. I'm talking about absolutely not no horrified but like you have it in the shower. Luke like is it a bathtub shower like poor have to jump like the equivalent of ten feet in the air to get into the litterbox. We have we. Don't use an obvious reason now. Yeah it's it's it's blocked off with has not tape and and go right now but no. It's just when we brought them in. We put them into that bathroom. It was there little safe zone when they came to our house. So that's now where they eat. And also i guess the opposite of each has to and But yeah it's. I've just noticed that after about a week of this medication. Their bowels are not very solid. But that's all right. Somebody else have anything to say. We're all pretty. You pretty much ruined the night after that. So i'd say about donald logoff. Sorry about that constantly does string like cat. Shit spluttering anger out and i was like. Oh my god that is horrifying walk. I it's like walking into a crime scene l. I'm gonna throw up. A picture on dischord after this episode out all right well mary rose thank you for your joining us on these virtual beers. I've actually been doing virtual beers with people Just hitting them up and be like look. We can't hang out is to catch up and have a beer so Hope you're doing well down there in portland. It was fun. If you guys make your way down to oregon let me know dwell. Hopefully we can have some beer soon. You know what instead of us come. Well i mean it's gotta go both ways like we gotta go down to the but you really need to come up to canada. Really one guy opened up here. Dopp ed's an igloo. I'm bringing all the code saone which is our all right. Thanks for joining yup. Thanks for joining us.
5X4 ANG BAHAY NA BATO | B1 GANG ADVENTURE AND MYSTERY SERIES BOOK 5
"This episode is sponsored by inker. Podcasting is so much fun and now it's easier than ever to start your own podcast with anger. Everyone is passionate about something for example. I love talking about spooky stuff. Now thanks to Anchor. You can spread the word about the things you love and maybe even make some money doing it. Start Your podcast for free with anchor using the anger APP or by going to anchor on. Fm They'll even distribute your show for you. You'll be heard on spotify apple podcasts. And many more of your favorite podcast platforms. Anger also provides tools to allow you to record. And Edit your show from your computer and even from your phone and no matter how big or small your audience is you can make money from your podcast. It's everything you need to make a podcast in one place. I using her. And it's been the best podcasting platform. I've been a part of so. Join me. Start Your podcast today by downloading the anchor APP or go to Anchor Dot FM. We all have something to say things Case number five nine Join notion boy. Shorts is charts Big News Veto that Masika Interview Bogie Being New York. Comey by going. I'm you see them me. New Genome Onus about it. Sis Peng Balogun line Look Bad London gency one dealing some Bama borough report by the Hebrew draw bringing on this In how fast do That'll be coming in dog. Amount Galumph post malice. Tommy so by NATO than the Alumna sobbing may seen some have been Panamanian. Enhance up condoms. Eli seat by by
The Danger of Drifting
"October thirty the danger of drifting. Therefore, we must pay closer attention to what we have heard. Lest we drift away from it. He Bruce to one. We all know people that this has happened to. There's no word gency. No vigilance, no focused listening or considering or fixing of their eyes on Jesus. And the result has not been a standing still, but a drifting away. That is the point here. There is no standing still the life of this world is not a lake it is a river, and it is flowing downward to destruction. If you do not, listen earnestly to Jesus and consider him daily and fix your eyes on him hourly, then you will not stand still. You will go backward. You will float away from Christ. Drifting is a deadly thing in the Christian life and the remedy for it, according to Hebrews two one is pay close attention to what you have heard. That is consider what God is saying in his son. Jesus fixture is on what God is saying and doing in the son of God Jesus Christ. This is not a hard swimming stroke to learn the only thing that keeps us from swimming against sinful culture is not the difficulty of the stroke, but our sinful desire to go with the flow. Let's not complain that God has given us a hard job. Listen, consider fixed. The is. This is not what you would call a. A hard job description. In fact, it is not a job description. It is a solemn invitation to be satisfied in Jesus. So that we do not get lured downstream by deceitful desires, if you are drifting today. One of the signs of hope that you are born again is that you feel pricked for this. And you feel a rising desire. To turn your eyes on Jesus and consider him and listened to him in the days and months and years to come.
Words Matter Library: 56th Anniversary of the March on Washington
"Welcome to the words matter library. Welcome two words matter. I'm katie barlow. Our goal is to promote objective reality as a wise man once said everyone is entitled to their own opinion and not their own facts words have power and words have consequences fifty six years ago this week. The march on washington for jobs and freedom was held in the nation's capital on wednesday august twenty eighth nineteen sixty three more than two hundred. I'm fifty thousand people turned out to advocate for the civil and economic rights of black americans. It was here standing in front of the lincoln memorial israel at the reverend dr martin luther king junior delivered his historic. I have a dream speech. It was one of the defining moments of the civil rights movement and one of the most iconic speeches in all of american history more than one hundred years after emancipation. Dr keith explained to the country into the world. How black americans were still not free five years ago. A great american who symbolic shadow we stand today signed the emancipation improperly this momentous decree came as a great beacon light of hope to millions in sydney gross slave who had been seared in the flames of weathering injustice it came mesler joyous daybreak to end the long night of that tippety but at one hundred years later the nick role still is not free one hundred years later. The life of the negro is still sapling crippled by the manacles of segregation they shouldn't and the chains of discrimination one hundred years later negro lives on a lonely arlen of poverty in the midst of a vast ocean of material prosperity. One hundred years later negro is still languished in the corners of american society and finds himself in exile in his own land so we've come here today to dramatize shameful name full condition dr king considered the words in the declaration of independence and the united states constitution as a sacred obligation and when he believed the founders and their descendants should be held accountable for innocence. We've come to our nation's capital to to cash a check. When the architects of our republic wrote the magnificent word solve the constitution institution and the declaration of independence they were signing a promissory note to whichever it american was to fall out this noteworthy promise all men yes black men as well as white men and would be guaranteed the full rights of life liberty and the pursuit of happiness it is obvious today that america has defaulted on this promissory insofar as her citizens of off color are concerned instead of honoring this sacred obligation america has given the negro he groped people a bad check check which is comeback mock insufficient funds but we refuse ooh to believe that the bank of justice is bankrupt. We refuse to believe that that i- insufficient funds and the great bolts of opportunity of this nation and so we've come to cash this check out check that will give us a pun demand the riches the the freedom and the security of justice dr king also spoke to those white leaders like president john f. kennedy who supported him and the civil rights movement but urged caution patients and gradual change. We have also also come to this hallowed spot to remind america of the fierce urgency of now. This is no time to engage in the luxury of cooling off or to take the tranquilising drug of gradualism. Now is the time to make real. The promises of democracy now is the time arrives from the dark and desolate valley of segregation to the sunlit path pass the racial justice. Now is the time lift our nation from the quicksands. The racial injustice to the solid rock of brotherhood now is the time to make justice reality. Take all of god's children it would be fatal for the nation to overlook their gency of the moment this sweltering summer of the negro's legitimate discontent will not pass onto that is an invigorating the alternates of freedom and equality nine thousand nine hundred sixty three is not an end but a beginning those who hope that app the negro needed to blow off steam and will now be content. We'll have a rude awakening. If the nation returns to business there's usual despite the injustice the inequity and the impression that his people people suffered under dr king described his hope that freedom and equality could rise from the ashes of segregation and hatred so even though so we face the difficulties of today and tomorrow. I still have a dream it. It is a dream deeply rooted in the american dream. I have a dream that one being this nation asian will rise up live out the true meaning of its creed. We hold these choose to be self evident that all men are created. Aw i have a dream i four little children will one day live nation where they will not be judged by the color of skin but by the content of that character. I have a dream. The historian jon meacham writes with a single phrase martin luther king junior joined jefferson and lincoln in the ranks of those who have profoundly shaped america for dr king and millions of others america would only become great when this dream was fully realised and this country finally lived up to its founding words movie would be the day when all look god's children able to sing with new meaning my country tears of the sweet land of liberty of saying land where my fathers died land of the pilgrim's pride from every mountainside let freedom ring and if america ever kissed me a great nation. This must become true. Let freedom ring from the covers of california but not on the bat. Let freedom ring from stone mountain georgia let freedom rating from lookout mountain tennessee aw freedom ring that bring hill and moan mississippi every mouth in let freedom ring and winded when we allow freedom when we met at ring from every village and never hamlet from every state and every city we will be able to speed up that all children black mcminn and quite men twos and ten thousand protestant and catholic we'll be able to turn homes and singing the dick bros spirit toll free at last. We appreciate aw thank you for listening to words matter for more information on our show and hosts visit words matter media dot com please rate and review words matter on apple podcasts and other podcast providers.
Australia cuts interest rates
"Australia's central bank cut interest rates to counter the economic damage from Corona virus. Live from London. This is the marketplace morning report from the BBC World Service. I'm Vivian newness. Good Morning the Reserve Bank of Australia has cut interest rates to a record low of zero point five percent. The bank's governor said the spread of carving nineteen having a significant effect on the country's economy and uncertainty about the outbreak is likely to affect domestic spending China. The epicenter of the outbreak is Australia's largest trading partner Jennifer McEwen from capital economics. She says the outbreak could hit the Australian economy into a recession. It's possible that any economy could and of course it depends as well on the number of cases within the economy itself. It's quite possible that Australia and like many other economies will see a significant rise and that domestic spending is hit more. Australia is also quite reliant. On the Chinese economy not only for tourism but also is mining factories quite dependent on demand from China which is slumping because of the earth. There is a g seven meeting scheduled for today. That's the Group of Seven nations. They're expected to release some kind of joint statement. Kind of unified action. Could we see that group of Seven nations committed to the g? Seven finance ministers and central banks are meetings data there are host. There could be some announcement of fiscal policy policy supports or perhaps even a combined announcement of interest rate cuts now. I think this is quite difficult. Because the g seven economies are in different positions for example the Bank of Japan and the European Central Bank ready have negative rights so they have limited scope to announce the interest rate cuts some other facing constraints on government spending. So I think probably is going to be a more general statement about being willing to intervene. When necessary and perhaps some pledge of liquidity support so offering lots of loans to the businesses that are most affected by the virus just to try and tie them over is quite important at the moment that we try to avoid any layoffs by these businesses. Because that's what could turn this from a temporary shock into something much more. Permanent people actually lose their jobs. Then you're looking at a different situation than than a temporary stoppage related. Either to supply chain distortions factory closures Jennifer McEwen of capital economics one of the sectors. That's main hit. Hardest by the spread of virus is the airline industry with flight cancellations across the globe the body which represents airline is now calling for changes to the Y. Takeoff and landing slots at airports are managed under existing rules airlines that don't use a slot for eighty percent of the available time over a season risk. Losing it head of the International Air Transport Association Lower Ramon explains is much like a restaurant reservation a new ensuring that you still have that table reservation for the period you booked for when you want to come back again. So this is about enabling airlines have said this slots when recovery phase comes and they've still got they've they already have been using for this season unplanned tease Nazis I OUGHTA is contacting aviation regulations worldwide to request the rules governing. The use of airport slots be suspended. Immediately macy's all about flexibility to make those changes quickly but will say certainty to do them in a fashion where they're not going to be penalized for making a to the services they have planned head of the International Air Transport Association Lower Mourn. Let's do the numbers and hopes of a coordinated g seven action plan on the corona virus outbreak have caused European stocks to rise markets in London France and Germany up by more than three percent although some Asian markets closed lower gold and oil have made gains. Paris is famous for its outdoor terraces. A place to sit down and enjoy across on over glass of wine but hating those spaces mission huge amounts of carbon dioxide. And that's prompting a rethink should hate it outdoor terraces be banned the BBC's he scofield reports from the French capital. There are some twelve and a half thousand heated terraces in Paris today. Places where even on a winter's day you can sit outside and enjoy a coffee or a cigarette without feeling the cold however it's also calculated that heating an average terrace over one. Winter uses the same energy as driving a car three times around the world and that for environmentalist like the Green Party mayor of the Second Round Small Jack. Pluto is an outrage. We hit outside in the winter. It's totally absurd. We have to stop because there is no gency. Full to clean mate are enjoyed by smokers and non-smokers alike but most people seem to accept the idea that they're days maybe numbered legalize some of it. Surely sexually it would be a pain if they took away the heat races. It's nice to smoke outside and stay warm but of course we also have to think about what it meant for the environment the Seville. I think they are going to be in contradiction with everything we are doing to fight climate. Change just judy. We hating the outside World War. One City in France then has now banned heated terraces and the coors is gaining momentum ahead of next month's town hall elections but the decision is not straightforward. Smokers are asking where else they can go for. A cigarette and cafe owners are very worried about the impact on them. Sitting outside snug in winter is a very pleasant thing to do but if fighting climate change means making adjustments to our way of life. This looks like one luxury that we may well soon have to forego in Paris on the BBC's Hueco field for marketplace and fast food fans in Wales have queued for five hours ahead of the opening of the country's first TACO bell the American restaurant chain now has stored in thirty seven UK towns and cities in London. I'm Vivian Nunez with the marketplace morning report from the BBC World Service.
Andr Picard on Quebec's pandemic curfew
"Throughout the nineteen eighty s strange phenomenon was sweeping north america. They were in a panic and like people in a panic. They want solutions allegations of underground satanic cults torturing and terrorizing children. The thing is there were no satanic cults preying on children and nearly thirty years later the people touched by it. All are still picking up. The pieces isn't a work of fiction. This is a work of history satanic panic available now. This is a cbc podcast. Starting next saturday they'll be a curfew from eight. Pm to five am during four weeks so after eight pm we won't be allowed to go out in streets except for work. I know those measures are tough for our mental health but we have to balance that with this situation in our hospitals. This thracian is very serious. That's while ago quebec's premier announcing cova curfew the first for canada. The only exception will be for those heading into or coming home from work. The globe and mail's helmet. Andre picard is here to talk about these lockdown measures and issues. Andre good morning. Good morning we are not familiar in this country with covid curfews. They're happening elsewhere. But this is the first in in canada. How effective do you think it'll be. The first in a in a whole province are been little curfews in indigenous communities here and there and of course you mentioned around the world absolutely. It's hard to say how effective it will be It really depends on enforcement. It defends depends on buying and the early response seems to be mixed People have their doubts about this because there's some tough talk as we often get from the premier but there's many many exceptions to this rule so essentially expand under this lockdown. I call it a semi locked down for a couple of months and nothing really changes now. Accept this curfew. And then other rules have been loosened so people don't see this as a really dramatic change the see it. I think more than euro-taste. We've been talking about schools and the schools will remain open construction. Essential construction will continue. Does it seem right to you that that's happening. The ski resorts for example can stay open. Well it's awesome like an to French grammar programmer has a lot of rules that it has an exception to every rule and this curfew has so many exceptions that it's hard to keep track of There's gonna be professional hockey. Who's going to be skiing. There's going to be All kinds of things we had stores closed for two months. Now and now they're going to be allowed to do curbside pickup so for as many things we shut down there's reopening so it's not it doesn't seem like more strict which is sort of the message the government's supposed to be convenience. Do you think that other provinces should look to this approach. Whether it's it's this kind of curfew or even stronger. I think they're going to have to talk about it. Because other provinces ontario in particular has the same problem as quebec but worse quebec a month ago had fifteen hundred cases a day. Now it's up to more than twenty five hundred cases a day. That's that's a big jump in in a short period. An anti-terrorist Case numbers rising even faster hospitals are really really stressed in those two provinces. They're really on the brink of the you know having to do dramatic stuff. Open field hospitals We have more in interrupts now etc. So this is something has to be done. Curfews have worked in other countries but the only worked where they're real curfews where they're very strict one of the things about quebec striking is. There's not really any limitations. On travel you know in melbourne. You couldn't go more than five kilometers from your home once a day In connect you can still go shopping. Five times a day you can drive to the ski hill etc. There's all kinds of exceptions. That don't make this look like a walk down or a real curfew measures like this are necessary in the race to get vaccines into the arms of canadians. There's been a lot of criticism about the distribution of vaccines. You wrote a column saying that. Keeping vaccines In storage waiting to be used as a bit like having bags of peas in a freezer. How would you assess the rollout of the vaccines from provincial governments across this country. I think there's two aspects of the story one is The vaccine that we have we should get into people's arms as urgently as possible. That hasn't been done. Our clinics were closed or cut back during the holidays etcetera. We should have been doing this as a priority as something. Urgent and were gency. Wasn't there so that's an issue. We have to use the stock that we have the second part of it and the provins. It's been right to criticize over out. All over this is there's just not very much stock. We have very few vaccines in canada. So what's going to happen in very short order is we're gonna zero vaccines and we're going to be waiting for new shipments to come in and that's a different problem but it's an even worse problem one of the other problems that governments are facing. Is that some members of their own cabinets have been traveling this winter internationally and it's not just certain politicians. What else have you been tracking. When it comes to traveling abroad. We all politicians are traveling. We've seen heads of public health programs of hospitals to the elite or trade links. But there's also just a lot of ordinary people traveling so again you go back to quebec. Back is has a get tough curfew. But thousands of quebecers are traveling to cuba Birds are going to florida so again. It's this mixed messaging. Are we really locked down or we really taking this seriously or if we have a little bit of money can we just take off and enjoy the sun and when we come back a lot. Big big story beck was that you could apply for this federal aid of a thousand dollars or quarantine now. The government in reaction has cut that off travelers. But that's sent this message early on that you know there's really no punishment for breaking the rules so we're not taking this seriously then or seriously enough. I don't think we're taking it seriously enough for people. Think well this doesn't apply to be don't conduct again time and time again. This emphasize well older people elders over sixty five. They have to stay in their homes. They're really endanger. And i think part of the message that's heard from younger people as well. It's only old folks who had risk so we can do. What as we like. Andrei good to speak with you as always and we will talk again appreciate your time this morning. Thank you thank you undercard. Goba males health columnist for more. Cbc podcasts go to cbc dot ca slash podcasts.
Pants Extinguished: Birthdays
"Good morning. Fire listeners producer Noah Levinson. This thing that gets me out of bed. Every day is the satisfaction of knowing that as the producer of this podcast. I take part in the shaping of children's minds training, our young listeners to detect the many lies half truths and purposeful deceptions that the adult world tries to throw at them on a daily basis, but what keeps me awake at night tossing and turning in my bed as my fifth sheet peels away from the corners of my mattress, forcing me to get up remake the bed and return to my fitful sleep is the possibility however, slim that this show may have trafficked in lies of its own. Mark Twain, one said that a lie can travel around the world and back. The truth is still lacing. It's and if the truth spooks or anything like my own the kind with the loops at the top that always come undone is I'm attempting to tie them at lie could travel and farther, which is why we bring you. Extinguished? In each episode of pants extinguished. We reinforce the truth by kicking the liar out of the studio and bringing on the real expert from last week's show to teach us more about their subject. So if you haven't listened to last week's episode about birthdays, this is your spoiler. I'll give you a moment. And when you hear the interrupting cow it'll be too late. At least I thought there was going to be an interrupting. Thank you. Lisa. Last week's birthday expert was Janine thereto who runs a not for profit organization called take the cake which helps to throw kids birthday parties for families who can't afford to. She sat down in the studio with Lisa Debra. And Debra son Levi to shed more light on the good work that her organization. First of all how much money do you think you use planning all these birthday parties? Do you mean how much money per party or per year? Party. Yeah. That's what he means. I we used to say five hundred dollars per party, but it's been kinda creeping up. So I'd say it's more like six hundred because sometimes we have to buy things that apparent might not have to like if the kid really wants to have a party at a trampoline place, but they don't have transportation we have to pay for transportation. So they can get to the party and their whole family party. Yes. Definitely. And they and that includes the gift for the child. Oh, you buy the gift as well. Yes. So nice. But but other organizations make donations. Don't they? Yes. And but mostly individuals. Oh, yeah. Sometimes people will have a birthday party and bell as their guests to donate to take the Kate as their gift so that they can kind of pay Ford and celebrate their birthday by helping other people celebrate there's that's really cool. Denver don't do for me. Yeah. Robots, but humans, she go to which I. Donation? Right on the top of our website, make very easy to click and make a donation and your site is again, it's WWW dot take. Dash the dash cake dot org. Excellent good. That's really nice. So people will say don't bring me gift make a donation. So that other kids can have a birthday party. Yes. Although lots of people end up giving a gift and donation because it's hard not to give a kid gift on people generous. Yeah, they like to give and with also money you use on birthday parties do ever earn money because it sounds like you use a ton. Terrible business. Let's to you. Well, all of our money is donated. So we don't charge for anything that we do also many small businesses donate to us like a birthday cake or pizza bagel. No, thanks. Thought I was going to have to give a bagel what type of cake is your favorite? I think I like, very simple cake. Tamales scream layer of cake layer frosting, layer, tamales, Burg, I can send you one. What was your really just dish about your cake? What's your favorite? I like vanilla cake with just chocolate frosting. Very middle contact, really. Yep. Yeah. Classic. All right. So back to to truth in lying sort of the name of the game here Janine. Are there any misconceptions that people have about birthdays or birthday parties or people? Maybe who can't celebrate them on their own. Is there anything you want to let everybody know who's listening? I think a lot of people are surprised to know that there are kids who can't have birthday parties being his it just seems like a normal thing that everybody has and as a parent sometimes, you know, we complain about having to have them because they're expensive and time consuming, but we also love it. And it would be heartbreaking to not be able to have a birthday party for child and kids they see other kids have birthday parties because they go to. Them. So it's very much in their consciousness that people do have something that they don't get to have. Right. How do you nominate someone any adult who works with kids can nominate someone there's a nomination form on our website. That's really short and simple. And they just have to believe that this kid wouldn't otherwise be able to have a party and give us something special about that child that really stood out to them. And that way when we call them to inform them about the party. We can say, you know, your teacher said that you've really improved your grades this year or you always come to class with a smile or you help other people with their with their problems, or whatever it is. And so that they know that this is something that they won and are entitled to and that it's not just somebody coming in and giving them something because they're. Air sad for them. I have to audition they do not because I'd be really good here. Here's what I would. Do you do? Oh, my God up present. Gosh can not gonna lie. That was pretty good. Yeah. The human children seem to have those lines down. Take it. All right. Great stuff. Great work Janine. Thank you so much to everybody who works at take the cake really excited to learn about it. And thank you for all that you do. And thanks guys. My my partners here Levi. Lisa. Thanks, very impressed. Thank you for having me. And for anyone listening with Gert is IB birthday pants on fires production. Jin Z media on the web at best robot ever dot com where you can find more great gency podcasts and find out how to participate as a contestant on this one can also submit questions for Lisa to answer on our next asked LIZA segment. Follow us on social media at pants on fire cast for behind the scenes, photos and more true facts, maybe back next week with the regular game show edition of pants on fire. Cenex time.
707: What Happened When We Started Using Cash Only by Jason Price with PT Money on Saving Money
"This is optimal. Finance daily episode seven oh seven what happened when we started using cash only by Jason price with P T money dot com. And I am Dan your host here on FDA. And this is where I read to you from some of the best personal finance blogs on the planet. Today's post comes from contributor on P T money. But before we get to that I want to give a big thank you to design crowd for their support design crowd is a website that helps entrepreneurs startups and small businesses all kinds like accountants dentists, photographers marketers and consultants outsource or crowdsource custom logo web and business card designed from designers all around the world for a special one hundred dollar VIP offer for our listeners checkout design crowd dot com slash finance to learn more and save up to a hundred dollars. When you start your next project. That's D. E sl Jian CRO WD dot com forward slash finance or simply enter the discount code finance when posting a project on. Zayn crowd for now. Let's get right to today's post as we optimize your life. What happened when we started using cash only by Jason price with PT money dot com. Do you pay with cash debit credit or a combination of the three some people use credit cards to pay for all of their expenses earn rewards and then pay off the balance each month. Others use cash or debit and follow the viewpoint of Dave Ramsey credit card rewards aren't worth playing with fire that can lead to overspending and possibly debt. Also, it's proven you spend forty percent more with credit cards versus paying with cash. My wife, and I used credit cards as our primary form of spending for years a few months ago, we decided to make a switch to go all in with Dave Ramsey cash envelope. Budgeting and honestly haven't been happier with things since we paid off our credit card balances and started using debit for bills and regular expenses and cash for everything else. Sure. It took some work to make the transition some behavior change and giving up earning miles and rewards, however, making the switch has provided some benefits that we never would have expected. Here's a look at five of them one. We stopped spending. Ahead while we've always used a budget and tracked spending diligently we found ourselves spending ahead more times than we knew was probably healthy to do. We would choose to spend ahead in the areas of entertainment or dining out for we would spend a head on the kids when we felt like they needed something for school or for some other activity, the convenience of the credit card made it easy to spend a head a little bit and figure out how to pay for it later or just balance it out at the beginning of the next month doing so put us in catch up mode overall. We're not talking about a lot of dead, and we still had constraints not to spend a head to an unmanageable amount. However doing so is never good practice and can add up. If you're not careful it also started to cause stress in our relationship. And we knew that was a symptom of what could become a larger financial problem since making the change to cash and debit, our choice to overspend has simply disappeared why we believe it's because we're now forced to solve problems or to simply wait until the money is available to we problem solve. More paying by cash and debit has forced us to become better at problem solving. As mentioned a moment ago, we wouldn't solve our shortage problem, we just spend. Now, we have to problem solve we have to seriously evaluate assessing of our expenses force ourselves into saying, no, Allott and spend only what we have available in our account or cash envelopes. We can't use credit cards to bail ourselves out. Even if it's a small amount. Our only source if the gap is truly a need, and it's large enough is to use armor gency savings account. That's obviously something will always do our best to avoid unless it's absolutely necessary. Three we experienced less financial tension while we never argued about money, or why someone had spent money on something. We did experience tension when reviewing our budget and finding shortages this led to stressful discussions from time to time. However now that we pay with cash and debit, we haven't felt this type of tension in over six months. Why I think we're more thoughtful about are planning. It's. Simply more difficult to use cash versus the convenience of a credit card. If we don't have it. We can't spend it easy as that four. We've stopped micromanaging our finances. Actually, I was the one who has stopped micromanaging our finances. We used to use money management software and have since transitioned to cash on Velox and a spreadsheet to track our regular expenses. That was a big shift for me. I used software to track everything to the penny. I found myself tracking and reviewing spending daily, and sometimes it would take a lot of my time to review the receipts. Enter them into our software review budget, balances, etc. Our finances have been greatly simplified with the cash envelopes, there really isn't any tracking to do other than thinking about how much we're going to spend per week. The checking account is super easy to manage because there aren't many transactions just the bills or stuff. We know we have to pay for with debit online purchases at cetera and five we conveniently have cash on hand, I used to swear. The convenience of a credit card. I would purchase everything using my credit card track the expense. And then assign it to a budget category. I always knew I needed to carry a little cash just in case I needed it. But I never did. And it was always a pain when the kids were at the park and wanted a cash only treat or when we needed money for valet and didn't have it. I always reason to credit card was absolutely the most convenient and safest way to pay. I no longer believe that there is a great convenience about having cash that makes it handy to pay for little things, and you never have to make an emergency run to the ATM and a debit card can easily cover electronic purchases in your budget. Final thoughts. You already know that to pay with cash or debit is nothing new Dave Ramsey's been preaching about the benefits for years. Now, I can agree in confidence that it works and does make a difference. It certainly offers more benefits than just staying out of debt. You just listened to the post titled what happened when we started using cash only by Jason price with PT money dot com. And thank you again to design crowd for their support design crowd has over six hundred fifty thousand designers from Sydney to San Francisco ready to help you with awesome, creative ideas. Get the perfect custom design every time. It's simple. Just post a brief describing the design you need. Then design crowd will invite its designers to submit and within hours, you'll receive your first design over the course of three to ten days. A typical project will receive sixty to a hundred or more designs from designers all around the world. And then you pick the best design and approve payment. If you're not happy, no worries because design crowd has a money back guarantee. So try it out you can crowd source just about any creative project on design crowd and for a special one hundred dollar VIP offer for our listeners checkout design crowd dot com slash. Finance financed. Learn more and save up to a hundred dollars. When you start your next project. That's designed crowd D E S. I G N CRO WD dot com forward slash finance or simply enter the discount code finance when posting a project on design crowd. And that's going to do it for today. Thank you so much for being here and being subscriber tomorrow, I will be back with a post from a new blog to the show. So I'll see you there where your optimal life awaits.
Episode 38 - Prioritise What Matters
"And welcome to the transformational coach. Podcast with me. Ruina barton giving you competence with confidence. Hello and welcome to episode fair to eat of the transformational coach thoughts from my sofa. Podcast how are we all doing this week. Where well into twenty twenty one now and. i hope you're january is going quite well for you. How's everybody keeping his everybody taking time to after themselves. Are you running around after everybody else. Whatever it is. you're doing. Thank you for taking a few minutes to stop and listen to this episode. It's much appreciated. We're on episode thirty. Eat this week and we're starting a new topic. Our topic for the next few weeks is going to revolve around how to succeed. And this week we're looking at prioritizing. What matters we'll also look at determination learning from mistakes successful habits as part of this how to succeed topic so let's just jump straight and it's a new year night. Explain to you in last week's episode. That i'm not one for new year's resolutions. Why i do like to do is think about what i want to be. Achieving my priorities if you like my goals and then as ever because it is me like to list them and within lose priorities make decisions and things like what is urgent waters. A nice to have you know what i absolutely can't do without what about you. How do you prioritize things. One thing i am aware of. Is that if i prioritize everything as a high priority odin priority. Then things begin to lose the art gency or lose that importance. You know if everything is important than nothing is most important if you like so when i look at prioritizing my own tasks i first off determine. Fault is high or gent in my priority list. I'm going to let you in on a secret about how i do this. You know me by. No i am one for lists. It helps. just get everything out of my head onto a piece of paper. And then i can look at that start prioritizing and organizing it so for me when i'm looking at prioritizing is this process of determining what is most important to me and what feels like the most important at that point in time and if i just cast an eye over my list then i could be tempted to see. Everything is urgent for me. But as i've said. I then think if everything is urgent nothing the most important thing for me and i can find myself losing a lot of time and potentially a lot of productive tame by constantly scanning up and down my list to see what i'm going to tackle next. So how'd i stop that. Well one of the ways i do. Things is to go down the list and classify if you like each item so i might call an item e because it's vital that gets completed or done i may legal an item with a b because it important but i do have a few days to action it and then i may prioritize as a letter c. Which would be nice to have or an optional activity. You know something that. I do want to get to but if i don't get to it for a couple of months that's all key. And then within those categories. I then number one two three excetera the importance of each item so anything in the eight or vital category will then also be numbered in its priority order one two three four five to ten for example if have ten items like that likewise for category b these items the atom portent should definitely get done but if they do slip by a or two. There's not necessarily a major consequence to that action. I am able to get my be priorities. Done each day And does leave me feeling in quite productive steet and once those as and be priorities have been dealt with. I can then look at the sees the nice to have these optional activities. You know the could be related to projects that have a deadline way ahead in the future so one of those for me Through all of twenty twenty. And i do realize the sound odd. Given the a lot of people were working from home you knew and we had locked owns and things were shut but one of the priorities in nice to have category for me was a revamp of my website. A revamp of my branding. If you like. And i've only just managed to get into it. No it was a goal for all of twenty twenty anti managed to achieve it and twenty twenty one. It was definitely an a nice to have priority for me. Other things took precedence and that did change throughout the year and lately. You've had similar experiences yourselves. But my website had a refresh. It's been rebranded and lose consequences of that. Rebranding will continue to unfold through the lakes of my social media and mike contact me. Pg's so what are your top five priorities in life. Make a list. What matters more to you than anything else. And what areas of your life do you need a bit of a tune-up to realize with your priorities. I you still working within your values and if not what's been getting in the way of you truly living your priorities once you've got that surtee to think about what you could do differently. What could you see not too so that you can build your life around what matters to you. Most and a new. We've discussed this before when you see no to something you're potentially saying yes to a new opportunity. So how are you going to prioritize what matters most to you. I know some people that like to capture everything onto this master does. And if you like this major list of absolute anything and everything the to achieve and then. They began to break those down into monthly weekly daily or even hourly goals where they can separately. What's our jin thrum important tasks and those nice to have and then on a daily basis the rank their tasks by their their. If you like their true priority for that d- they possibly also separate tasks with similar priorities. And then they cutter if you like good enough goals and the stick with fourteen days in and what works best with their overall eam prioritize. Your most important work juding your most productive hours. Are you a nato. do you work best. When if you like everybody else in your household is gone to sleep or if deputies winding down and that's when you really come to life and can focus on your tasks and really get them done undisturbed and just work through them late. The boss that you are or are your mood of an early bird. Are you one of these people who like to be up for the morning. Run at five. Am and have had their showered and breakfast and ready for their d. by six am in which case prioritize your productive time. Perhaps take some time this month. It's january things are after slew star for twenty twenty one. We run another lock down here in the uk so perhaps take some time this month to really think about what you want to prioritize twenty twenty one as ever if you need time and space to really think through and talk through the things that are important to you reach out speak to a friend. Speak to a neighbor. Speak to your boss for example. Do you have a mentor. That you can talk about these things with if not speak to me. You have my contact details as ever. They'll be in the show notes underneath this episode. I would love to hear from you. We'd love to be able to give you the team and the space that you deserve to talk through your priorities for this year. And how you're going to go about tackling them in order to succeed and live the life that you deserve in the meantime as ever. Please stay safe. Please continue to look after yourselves. And i'll speak to you soon bye fano.
Longer Term Investments: water scarcity
"Uh. Hello and welcome to the bulletin with UBS monocle twenty four each week. We hear from the sharpest minds, and freshest, thinkers in the world of finance taking on the numbers in the height, and getting to the heart of the big issues of the day this week, we're diving into water scarcity the focus of a recent longer term investment piece from the chief investment office of UBS, global wealth management, put simply water is essential to life and represents a key driver of economic growth. Unfortunately, freshwater is distributed, unequally worldwide many countries confront the increasing challenge of water scarcity, while some face overabundance limited access to safe drinking water, and adequate wastewater management's, a widespread global problem and scarcity makes it difficult to improve overall health prevent poverty, and stimulate economic growth in many countries forty percent of people around the world live in regions that suffer from water stress and that figures projected to rise to fit. Fifty five percent by twenty fifty the long term. Investments were LT. I series contains the Matic investment ideas, based on long-term structural developments secular trends like population growth aging and increasing urbanisation create investment opportunities. Influenced by the interplay of technology resource scarcity and societal changes today, we'll catch up with a good friend of the show. To learn more about how this particular resource scarcity kennel should inform investment strategy in the space. And we'll go to the source if you will, and discuss the findings of this, LT, I report with its author, we start with pulled on oven global chief economist at UBS wealth management, pull, let's begin by talking broad brushed terms about the LT. I series I and the Matic's that are particular interest. They don't even certain secular trends, and the investment opportunities that go with them. Can you remind us? I why this is such a compelling area. So a lot of clients oversee thinking about long. If you're wanting a family office, you may be. Considering multiple generations into the future in terms of your investments, and we live the real Disley in on certain times. But even with all the noise that we've got some, the, the jumping of markets on every tweet from US president or every aditorial in the people's daily in Beijing what we still have a, an inexorable truth, as it were things which are over the longer term going to present investment challenges on investment opportunity. And that's where the long-term things come in these all things which demographics, which the maitre ecconomic development, make not absolutely certain but very, very strong probabilities over a multiple year view now, pull if we tend to look specifically oversee investment opportunities that you can characterize wave just described shape by many things technology, or the advance of technology would societal changes disgust resources like water. But. But it doesn't really follow follow certain cycles, but it's not a cyclically predictable. I guess some other things is this classic case where both challen general paternity lies therein. Yes. Absolutely. I mean in, in one son, there is my water scarcity was the ultimate recyclable results, you could be drinking a Cup of coffee made from Queen Victoria's offals. For example, the challenge, of course, is usable. But we call potable water is a scarce resource, and we have populations in places where there isn't enough water. And that's where the challenges come in Wolters. Absolutely critical of human survival. It is critical for agriculture about seventy percent of label water. Use is agricultural based so they're huge huge challenges and issues around Walser overall. But it also presents opportunities because if we can create more efficiency, if we can create better use of worser than that can make an enormous. Difference to people's standard of living one. Interesting aspect in the report poll was sort of a nexus illustration detailed consequences for certain sectors like the environment, or food, even energy, where you can kind of see pretty readily the key role at water water scarcity plays. But it's also interesting urbanize ation, which is another one of these secular themes that were you? And I've talked about before also very important. And I guess this is the point about war trick kind of everything, doesn't it? It does. -absolutely urbanize ation particular merging market, Ivanisevic in, which is, which is really the trend is something, which changes wall to us, and it changes in a whole variety of ways it changes it directly in the fact that people want running. So you won't better sewage systems, you built manage that. What happens if you are as with South Africa example in Cape Town or failure Nell them, what happens if you'll city which wasn't in the walls of the private area suddenly becomes deprived area? I mean they would dissolve the scenarios being talked about the recent counting Capetown. I'm with the browsing Melbourne a few years ago, besides me because of this clash of urban is Asian wolves in the facility in terms of lifestyles, people's Lysol, tend to become more water intensive as they become more of them, just in terms of how they live, what they're wearing will they consuming and selling them simple. So there's all sorts of things come out from an economic point of view. One of the fact of I often stress is the Walser is the single most traded commodity on the planet. Because water is in bedded in so much of what we consume the we're not actually shipping bottles of sparkling more around the world, but we all shipping, for example, microchips, which have a huge amount of Alterra soybeans, which have a huge amount of also inside them. And that's where you the full reach of water really sauce, become obese when you think about it in those, we'll give them poll other is this like many of the other longer term investment themes, which we've talked on this program are they necessarily also sustainable investment or investing themes, is there a necessary crossover alignment of those two, can they can they deviate, they can deviate, there are certain aspects which directly sustainable around health care, for example, or demographic, fem-, a loss of the naturally will overlap because the way that we are growing economy today is unsustainable within twenty years time off ended of living will be generated. Through environmental credits borrowing on sustainable resources unless we do something about it. So inevitably Zun as you saw thinking about the long term, you have to salt thinking about sustainability because the trends that we have today on not sustainable, and therefore by definition, Tanel, be longer term. We'll pick up on the sl again a little later in the program next though, let's talk to Alex Steeler actually analysts in the CIO UBS global wealth management. Going back to the start hair. What were the expectations your co author of this pace, what would the objectives at the start of the process, not a big surprise that we have what issue worldwide? I mean, the problems that we have kind of unfair distribution of water. So we have several countries with a lot of water, but many countries, unfortunately, with only a little access to water so Cording to several sources forty percent of the world's population county lifts in reaching base. Levi's Hafer, some, some kind of water stress and disfigures project to rice to fifty five percent by two thousand fifty based on the CD estimates from data from active. We thought it could be interesting to investigate whether there's an investment opportunity, because at the end, we need some, some solut- providers to tackle this problem, and that was basically stopping point on top of that. It's one of the SAT's or waters indirectly in several cities. But the that that's just something point remind us about the L TI's, Alex. How do these pieces of research fit in is it about looking at multiple cycles, bucking, the trends that can distract you if your focus more on the short term? Keith rival when we launched investments around five years ago, I mean, inequity analysts your normally focused on quarterly results, which is fair in which is our job, people also interested in long-term, vestment opportunities and their report, we thought let's take some drive that a very good predictable pretty easy. So like population growth aging and open station. Throng structure, trends, and Singapore, which companies are subsectors regions can benefit from these three drivers and obviously, what is cost is one of this investment topics. Next to where the most attractive, long-term -tunities here, is it a question of coin to narrow focus, or has often as we've discussed on this program. Is it about insuring a diversified exposure attractive thing about an water scars a mix of cyclical, names and offensive names? So we think that their own thirty five percent of our theme. Correct. Derived by wastewater treatment so water utilities pretty defensive names in general and sixty five percent consists of water equipment suppliers that really provide equipment for what expiration disappeared into treatment. I mean faucet drawing subsectors, and which obviously all the currently citizen, less kind of Bellas water treatment, for example, or designation, and slowest growing are kind of filtration palms Volve. So won't intrastructure. Bit about of annoys ation, as another facet hero IX, there, some interesting findings in the pace about this theme. Big problem, with ovation is that at the end someone has to pay for it, and in the past, unfortunately, countries, three on the spent and deaf will we have a big leakage basically of water. So most of the water still comes at home or still coming to the home, bub. A lot of unfortunately lost unit transport so to junior dispute, I mean to everage life spent of water pipes, Ron fifty to one hundred years, but unfortunately boater infrastructure developed, so in Europe and North America is much older. So we have, for example, in Newark cities, we have still pipes that they'd back to nineteen ten so more than one hundred years, or you can imagine that we have a lot of leakage, and that's basically a big problem for what dispute. We were talking with sustainable investing. Can I ask you whether the LT, I things are always stained one imagines at least as a fair amount of crossover? Not all I would say two of them are linked to investing. I mean some of them and both the water linked to achieve sorta stem development goals of the United Nations. Bought some are not really linked to sustain investing about what is one of these investments seems like Steeler. I want to ski next about gency water scarcity the themes that we've been talking about here in character, and yet which take a long-term view. Is that a challenge organiser sort of helped unity implicit nuts? It is quite through. But on the other side, it's rea- structural point s mentioned before infrastructure investment is nothing you can do just today, but his release something for for many years of differ, we think it's structural opportunity, but I mean with the short-term opportunity. Like mentioned before ballast water treatment, where we had a new regulation dead since September two thousand seventeen for example, all new sips have to meet three standards and also opportunities initial to medium-term in that sense about risks, X, we've heard about energy prices investment activity from municipal from governmental authorities those a couple of the main areas, we shouldn't forget that water pumps are also used, for example, in detail gas production. I mean, if you for example, shop drop in the oil price that hadn't few years ago, also what investment indirectly negative effect so that only one risk so a and shop driven and energy prices and Secondly, three that country's Kanda fall to invest in water infrastructure job. Raphy other particular job refuses relevant here. It's mentioned in the peace, given this global problem the solutions that are global in character are the most attractive. So where should we be looking? I would say Asia, definitely I mean you need to build a completely new water infrastructure. And then it's about in investments in Europe and also North America. So all three major regions, basically Asia Europe and North America like Steeler, Flynn le-. Let's wrap up the show with the client view pulled on have been. What does all this mean for clients? Is it about that old chestnut of diversification? Is it about looking at particular job? Raphia. What does it mean? So I think there's a there's a lot, which comes out Ables, because we've been discussing these -solutely so critical to human existence. So one of the issues when we think about wolf investing ease the critical human existence. It is a very, very politically sensitive topic. So just saying, we're going to challenge for more so that doesn't work because that's not considered politically or socially acceptable. You don't say no, you can't have a drink because you can't afford it. That's something which is very, very difficult for me. So think about the political and social framework in which we can. Suitable for is important thinking about countries which are walls constrained. I'm where that may change their industrial happens, so China, for example, has had to revolutionize its iron and steel industry closing huge swathes of it because it was power inefficient. I'm not power. Was dependent on water oil and coal fired power stations, depend on Bulte. They run into a problem in China because there wasn't enough water to cool the power stations, so they couldn't cool electricity's. So they couldn't generate electricity produced inefficient steel nine since some of these chains are complicated, but it comes to water, the source and investors need to think about that. I think that there is a focus on more efficiency, where making better use of the wolves resources go distributing the resources more effectively not is something, which I think is a very powerful investment seeing that comes out of it, ultimately with a lot of investment themes. It is about becoming more efficient in, you know, use of resources so that we can. And maintain existing signs of living without doing serious damage to long-term growth, Spain ability, and that's pulled on bringing us to the end of this two hundred and forty third edition of the bulletin with UBS setting the agenda in the fast moving world of finance each week here on monocle twenty four. Listen. Again, and find out more at Monaco dot com. Are your preferred podcast platform the bulletin with UBS on monocle twenty four?
Draymond Green opens up about trying 2017-18 season
"Welcome to the third episode of season. Two of warriors awkward San Francisco. Chronicle's NBA podcast. I'm your host boyer's beat writer Connor Letourneau on today's show. We're playing my recent one on one interview with trae mongering. If you paid close attention to the warriors last season, you probably know that dream was dealing with a lot personally though, he never revealed. A lot of the details about what was going on dream on mentioned several times publicly that there were certain things happening off the court that made it tougher for him to bring his typical level of energy. Now that was significant given that he is the emotional leader of the team when dream on isn't playing with fire. The whole roster tends to lacquer gency after a recent shoot around in Las Vegas. I talked with dream on about what made last season so trying and why he needed to take an extended break from the game this summer that interview. And it's coming right up on warriors op court. My first question was simple. What did you? Learn about yourself last season. What long vol myself as honestly, just stay patient. Season where? We were performing to the level that I knew. This. So frustrating. Competitive. Hillman nature. Relax a little bit. But nontheless as competitive at fire, don't go away and. And. Sosa's really trying to. Further trying to lie not let that fireball over because I understand, but yet at the same time trying to figure out how in a fuck do do we do I get it out of myself. How do I get it out of my guys? That doubt. And honestly patients. As much as you know. Luter as much as you want one like last as much as you want people to be clicking and. Januar? You wanna play you wanna feel good? As much as you want. It. How far do you go to get that? And that. And just really stand patient pushing. Understand that you just let it come mass. What a national taught me a lot. I think. Help me in my life is in general. And that's why posted that that post was like I just needed to step away like myself because like that experience going to help me in life. And that's why I think it was just so draining for me go through something like joins you. You go through your life. You. Train for and that's how I felt. Yeah. And that's why I needed to step away because it was really draining. But also felt like that season was working in my life. Like, it wasn't just basketball. Right. So it wasn't like. Playing basketball. It's not because I'm still thinking about that. Because it's working in my life is so just really taking a step back from everything decompressing and letting all that stuff work and figuring it out and just settle down. Like, then I guess hard to get the lesson in something when it's going on and just really trying to pick up that lesson and Kerry. That's that's what I got from one of the things we do know that took an emotional toll on dream on last season was everything going on at his alma mater. Michigan state in the wake of the Larry Nassar news that gained national attention ESPN released. A report that among other things said Travis Walton close friend impersonal trainer was arrested for punching a woman in the face while bar in two thousand nine Tom Izzo, Jerry Jones, college coach was questioned about how he handled the matter and dream on trying to support system for both coaches. Oh and Walton through that throughout that process. Michigan state offices, a huge part of your identity and with everything going on their last season. How much did that drain? You obviously his. Oh and Travis. Because those guys are close to me. Does that Michigan state when all that stuff supposedly happened? No. All that stuff ended in how it was handled. And then just to see like. Report or be able to say anything, and it don't matter like facts that don't matter if the story is being adding onto a little bit like true and to see like. What really hurt me? And as I've said before like, you know, those girls who went through that with the doctor I feel for them because I can only imagine what I would do. Child. Haven't found remembers. I can only imagine what I would do. And we'll be going through if someone close to me. Bill for all those all those girls in those families because it wasn't right? Like, I mean, you don't know how that's going to somebody and they life. And where that takes them in their life or word is dropped him at and they like right now like, you don't know it may it may have fuel somebody. And it may have completely destroys like, you don't know. Saw Phil for the families seen by to see people that I am super close with you know, coaches who didn't even know Nassau want who didn't know Dr Adrian pain. You know to see those people lumped in with him. That's what her coach Antonio. That's what hurting. That's what hurting than anything. Because. Let me to come out and say been working on this story for four years and then say. And then to say. I've been working on this story for four years. And now, you drop it because of that, I guess not right. Like you're dumping those guys with. With serial, rapists. Cereal. Right. This like. Rathan young girl. Like, that's like that's not right. So that was more part that was more. Our flew to me than anything. Just to see, you know, don't try to lock them in. With that guy. I was watching ESPN a few weeks ago. And I saw something particular that said some release something about. Michigan state handle something right? It was just crazy to me because so many people name had been slandered with those stores, and then come across the ticker at the bottom of small letters that something was handled the right way after an investigation. It was like I don't the those centers were so short. I can't even really tell you what it meant. And it's like is that even right? To love Tom Izzo in. We Mary NASA like that story ultra people alive. He's still pay was cut from his team. And now he's in China. Go for gin Lee assistant coach spot. Yeah. And that all three people lives and. Because you loved it in like. Good Larry Nassar like that. That's what hurt me more. And I know Travis is trained you a lot of off seasons. Again this summer. Yeah. We got working like when I got back to to the floor. The beginning August. We've got. Obviously. Good to just have that time with him. You know, doesn't help him. Listen to him talking like. All that stuff going. Oh, obviously hours and Caesar. He was there to hear his Saudi story like everything that situation. Always good to be earful someone. He's here live. I haven't seen it. Here. Yeah. I can text number. But. Yeah. And you have Asli you alluded early last season that there's a lot going on personally. I'm not you don't have to share the details. But how what did you learn about navigating a season with win? A lot of personal things are going. You know, being professional walls of dealing with your personal. What I've learned is. You know, you try you. Try your hardest to seven. I think what people realize that at the end of the day you are. So as much as you want to keep your personal life separate from the way you perform, and you know, how you do your job every day and how you handle this. It's like. You know, I think that's what they think you step out vascular court, and like you're superhuman and then like you're thirsty. Like, it's like you're thrusted into this cartoon where like. Looney tunes, and they come flying the bubble in like, oh here and then like your back. Like, oh, it's not it's not like, it's real life. Like when you walk out that Tommy you walking out of that tunnel with whatever was on your mind. Will you walked in? You won't go into that floor. If you got some no your mind, it's still your mind. You ain't busted into this bubble. Like, oh like your magically rather play basketball like? I think that's what people realize, but you know. Just really try to focus on the task. Hand like when things aren't going as planned, or as you may want them to go using basketball outlet. To whatever it is. And like, you know, using basketball as therapy. Because at the end of the day is something I love. Child and I've always loved it using that therapy like it's no different than somebody who shop retail therapy right now through Sunday. I just need to go shot retail. It's no different for like trying to use that as therapy. Just to get away. Just to lose yourself in the game. Enjoy what you their times are in the season when you were just kind of go to the gym late at night and just get up shots. That's all. Yeah. I remember times I missed. I would go in at three o'clock in the morning shoot. Five. Because when I step in the element. Like, I just forget about everything else opened a lock him on that thing. As you get older, you know, problems come world problem things, come more realistic. College student more. You're the men at. The family other income source of the family. You're the father. Yeah. Boyfriend girlfriend. You know, like all of those things. It's a little different. Yeah. Because your worries is now more of what worry. Exactly. And there's so many more so many people dependent of you. And what you do. Garnered that reckless effects. So people could be young and dumb. And who cares? It is not. Nowadays. But even like when I was in college seventies. You were able to be young and dumb and Bickham Seca figure it out. Also much anymore. But that's just traded and your who your game subsists on energy. You know, that's how you've gotten this far is bringing that that heart. So I feel like do you feel like even more notice when you're going when you're having a tough time? Now getting that just because I've saluted because I. Energy for this chain. And like when firing going. A lot of times lack of and so easy to touch. Turner is right here to this guy watched him, and then his energy is out of there. Oh, well, that's what is energy. You know, it's like one of those things. There's very few things problems that you could just touch on. That is. From this going on with shoulder could become a hit by may touch the show that ain't even probably does not really problems in this world that you can actually get your finger. I think that's one of those that you can release put your finger on and it makes it tough. But at the end of the day, it's. Life. Like, it's my career is what I love to do is my responsibility, and I enjoy because everyone persons specifically that helped through last season and everything you were kinda. Yeah. Just being there. Fermi attorney just being having somebody to talk to on my son like. One and a half. Yeah. Well, he'll be two in December like him. Because no matter what no matter what I would be going to like, no matter how bad something could be basketball could be going how he don't care. Don't let it like when I see him. He's. Yeah. He's gonna jump on. He's going to run around laughing. They're trying to play. And I'm not going to fry those moments. Yes. Yes. In the best most happy happiness, I can possibly give himself KYW's there. You know? It's like. Does that stuff whatever it is really matching? Because clearly it don't matter to him. If it does not matter to. Doesn't matter. That's who mattered the most. Don't matter to him. Stance. I totally understand that like, you realize a little kids that human beings, natural disposition is to be joyful. The absolute, you know, as you get older all other stuff weighs you down to be happy into not like he is you want the kids are going to tell you the truth. Whether you want it or not getting the truth just shows you like. That's really like supposed to be. Then like you said as you get older so many other things come into play. And it's his that Lael you're in a good place. Now. You're going to push you've been in. Long. I feel a million. Thank you kind of figured out. How finger out you know, what I mean? Like, you feel comfortable with where out in terms of navigating how to? Worldwide celebrity in the sense. Yes. Comfortable YM in my life. How to handle different things? Life life has his show and try every season every day. Not even some somebody could throw the same thing that you know. Yes, he's may not be able to deal with the same way. You if that's just like, we all do going away embrace that. Doc. This shows part of the San Francisco Chronicle podcast network in our theme music is courtesy of the free music archive. The shows produced by me for more warriors coverage you can follow me on Twitter at Khan underscore, Krahn checkout, all of our coverage SF chronicle dot com. Also fall wears off court on itunes, and you'd be have some time. Give us some feedback.
Episode 43: Professor Spring Cooper on the importance of sexual health and agency
"Either podcast listeners, welcome to gendered the show that features stories that explore the systems practices and policies that enable gender-based violence and oppression and the solutions to end it. We use gender as a lens to understand power and oppression teach feminism and decolonize hearts and minds. One story at a time and gender sponsored by CANDU. It spelled K A. N D U, I T, and I'm your host Terry. You're in. Our guest today is professor spring Cooper, a social researcher with academe expertise and public health health promotion and sexuality, professor Cooper's PHD focused on the sexual health education implications of minstrel attitudes. Knowledge, amongst women of varying socio economic status in the United States. Her current research interests are an adolescent, sexual health at a lesson, and online and offline social networks health, promotion, health, communication, and prevention of diseases through behavior change in vaccination. We'll be speaking with professor Cooper about all of these topics, especially as it relates to the students that she works with at the City University of New York. In addition, will be speaking with professor Cooper about her podcast, the sex rap, the podcast, that covers everything you are too afraid to ask at home to embarrass to ask it school os, just too hard to ask a partner. Professor Cooper will also share her thoughts. About near states revenge porn law, which comes at the heels of New York City's law passed in twenty eighteen. Welcome Dr Cooper, I wanna say welcome to try office. Thank you for speaking with us today. I love to start with your background. How did you become interested in the areas sexual health, health promotion and health, communication? Well, I had a good friend in high school who was issue positive. She had contracted HIV from a blood transfusion when she was young. And she had experienced a lot of stigma through her life from other students and their parents. And so I felt very strongly that, that was unfair everything that she had been there. And I felt very upset and very kind of motivated to want to help in some way. So when I went to college at Penn State for undergrad I started volunteering at the local aids project and got really into helping people reduce their risk, and think, through strategies for condom negotiation and things like that. I had so much fun doing that. I thought I guess this is what I'm gonna do for the rest of my life. And in terms of your Picchi thesis, how did you become interested in that ministration in the body, female body? Well, I was mostly interested in the first conversations they end people have about sex with our parents. I was always interested in sex education and these stigmas in these ideas that are created in our society, and how they kind of come about. So that's like I introduction to sexuality that people get from their parents was what I really wanted to explore and for women that often occurs at the same time as. I period though when a woman gets first period, there's often some sort of sex talk that happens from the parents and that's like a very comments Denson. So I was really interested in kind of that time in women's life, the first period, specifically Minardi in what kind of happened from there. And so that's, that's where the interest in periods front from is. It's not how you personally learned about it. When you first got your period, or known about had you gotten the sex talk before, then I had been sent to a sex, Ed weekend, thing by parents when I was maybe ten or eleven was held at a local church, and it was a very open minded vary. Fact base very great sex, Ed program, and I remember being terrified because I felt felt too young. It was it was aimed at people may high. Hi, with, like I am not curious. Like it's very scary to me at the time. That's very parents must have been very progressive in the church. They may spring. That's true. Which city was this? My dad was military. So we moved around a lot. So that was in California, southern California. Wow. I've never heard of the church teaching anything about sex, Ed, it was like a whole weekend. It was a judge. And so, by the time, you, you got your period. You of course, were prepared in terms of having the factual knowledge I had so understand it. I still was very surprised when I got my period. I think about the logistics of everything. But I think that's pretty normal. So when you did your thesis was it difficult to get approval and support for the topic. No, my supervisor did a lot of research in sexuality. And so she was very practiced in she and I worked closely on all everything that we did there. So that was crazy. Dr Patricia coke shoutout to favorite mentor. And what about now? Now that you're professor at CUNY school of public health. What are your thoughts on the interest and the support for the kinds of research that you do? Well, there's two different types of support from research, one is kind of a generalized yet that's great. And then there's also monetary support. And so when you're talking about monetary support, and finding grants that are available to fund general research about sexuality and maybe something that isn't as directly tied to sexual health. It is very difficult and so finding organizations or agencies that will provide funding that is very difficult. So a lot of times researches framed in more disease, or anted way. So that, that's, that's how sexuality research exist is. Framing it in terms of how bad specific STI is or something like that. But, but in general, I feel very supported may research, and it is always a bit of work to get a study approved by institutional review board are ethical process just because there are a lot of protections. We want in place when doing work with young people. In all of my work in research is with people under twenty five and so specifically, if they're under eighteen there are a lot of extra precautions that we put in place and various to doing that. But every time I send location to the IRA be there's always different people looking at it in different concerns. There's always a lot of work to make sure that everybody agrees that it's a call. And as fully protective of young people. Would you say that part of the if there is institutional resistance to this kind of research that it's gender-based? Or is there also potentially opposition from religious, conservative groups that no see this as part of the reproductive Justice kind of movement and want to quash that? Yeah. I mean, I would say, not specifically in my experience in CUNY or in any university system rarely, but in the broader funding system for sure and getting things funded by big organizations, like national institutes for health is traditionally difficult anyway. But they're is very tied to how they're kind of allowed to spend their money. And that goes. Listen to what the president decides they're allowed to spend their money on. And so that means that it is very difficult to find money for the type of research, I wanna do because that's not a spin Sata's priority area. You were involved in the healthy CUNY initiative. Can you talk about your role and describe for listeners without is and its goals? Yeah. Healthy CUNY is and glamorization of several researchers at CUNY school of public health, and everyone at the school of public health is interested in increasing the health, specifically of New Yorkers were very urban New York City based school of public house, which makes us very unique. And but specifically healthy CUNY is our researchers from around our school that are interested in supporting specifically young people's health. And so we aim to take the research that we and others are doing and actually put it into practice for the CUNY population. And so that means that any thing that I'm working on that directly relates to sexual health of young people than I would try to reimplement through healthy CUNY to try to actually bring healthy changes to kidney students, and a report came out early last year with some findings around the gaps in health at CUNY students faced can you talk about those, please? I mean, I think you need students are amazing and so resilient. And we have the most verse body of students, and that means that we have people from every type of socio economic background of every race ethnicity and religion. And gender and sexual orientation. And the diversity of our student body is really reflective of the diversity of New York, and New York City, I mean, and so we have this lick cross cut like amazing group of people, and they're all, you know, from all these different backgrounds working really hard to get an education into further cells than further potential in their lives. And when people come specifically from very lowest, he has backgrounds with not a lot of support for education. Maybe it can be very difficult to be challenging those norms and the places they come from the family as they come from to get higher education. And so we do have a lot of I think, health concerns for students and specifically even housing stability. And access to regular your food security. And that is something that we don't see kind of in the general college population like if you were doing research with at typical for your sleep away, college, so we do have the needs that our students like our very real needs that have to be met so that they can continue to get an education. And we've also seen one of my colleagues here professor sweet had some research about looking at the gender based violence, that can actually occur as a result of further in someone's education. So specifically some women that were going to Uni schools felt that, that actually increased the violence. They were receiving from a partner because they were trying to lift themselves out of their situation by occasion in that way. Was not okay with our partners. And so we know that there are very real issues that our students face in. We have that through that healthy CUNY report through a lot of our own individual research, and we know that what we need to address. That's what healthy CUNY is trying to do trying to put into place interventions across CUNY campuses to really support our students in the way they need it most in full disclosure to our listeners. I was very much proponent of CUNY adopting, the recommendations that were in that report. And I think well for my experience. I've always felt that college persistence academic persistence should be looked at holistically and that these variables that the research was evaluating with something that was left out of the conversation, so subsequent to that report being published can you talk about with the institutional responses been? To the findings have are people just paying lip service to supporting it. Or is there really an effort to understand and incorporate institutionalized the recommendations that are in it? I mean, I think that's an interesting question that I can't really answer it seems like there's real interest. And. And CUNY is a huge Crecy of a lot of tape to find your way around and that some I mean, it's, it's pro and con of CUNY that we're so big and that we serve over half a million students. I mean that's amazing. And that means that the levels of accuracy win trying to implement her. Do anything are. Multifaceted and several layers. So I feel like there is support. And I feel like there is a potential for a lot of implementation, and it's taking a long time. I mean I see this as Nahla gives to the challenges that New York City or all public school. Teachers face. Rangers lean urban areas where the intersection of poverty, and racism, and, of course, food and income insecurity. Right. Have on the ability for children to really be present and, and learn and those individuals have in historically public schoolteachers resistant of their role as having to be the social worker, and of course, they're very much active in, in the academic growth of students, but not so much the social emotional, or at least that's been subordinated to the academic role. I'm wondering if you think that that's how. How we can address it, if there's this gap in the people who are actually serving the students if there are roles or so specialized, how can we bring in other people who can meet the gaps or how can, we change the system, or as part of what your research is about is, how can we change behavior? Yeah. I mean, I think that there's a lot of infrastructure that we can work to change. That might be the best way to start like some of the what I'll call environmental changes and that includes things like policies, and that includes the actual kind of space for things to happen, like physical space. I mean, just if you want a place where someone can interact with the person in talked to them about their needs, like mute ever private room, like I mean, there's all these environmental and panda logistical things that I think though, having a lot of those met could make a lot more things possible. And to be. Clear that doesn't exist. Currently Uni students advisers are, are already the ratio of advisors students is very high and spaces negligible. Okay. So I think there's just. Yeah. I think there's a lot of things, but the, the infrastructure has to support it. That's the first thing. And otherwise, you're kind of constantly swimming upstream in trying to change things. If you don't have infrastructure, and that kind of top down support for that annoy. And what about in terms of your research on sexual agency, which is a subset of that? What, what can you describe or define what sexual agency is? And what you are assumptions and goals are with the research. Yeah. So sexual agency is a constructive really developed, which I call the short definition as the ability to communicate and negotiate about sex while having empathy for partners once in needs. So I've developed a measure that we can use to assess sexual agency, and young people, where we have several questions that kind of look at their skills around some of these issues in their understanding of some of these things, and the reason that I think sexual agency is so important as a construct is that it is a positive outcome of sexuality that we can look at instead of always trying to prevent. Negative outcomes and sexuality and sexual health and I believe that high sexually gency is tied to lower negative health outcomes as well. So I think that if a young person has high sexually agency, they're more likely to have lower levels of, as KYW's unintended pregnancies. So I think that besides being happier, they will be healthier. And so that's why it's so important to me, as a construct, and I also think that a community with high level of sexual agency would have lower levels of sexual assault. So when you describe empathy for partners wants in needs, I think I missed the definition did that include of one's own once a needs, as well, yet if the ability to communicate negotiate about your wants a needs, while having empathy for the okay. And if if it's one sided if you're able to communicate your needs, but you don't have empathy for the others does not, not lie sexually Jesse just lower on this. Yeah. I mean I wouldn't I wouldn't consider that a healthy level of sexual agency at all. And. I think that. Real communication negotiation. That's always what we mean. But a lot of times that isn't kind of taken into account in in my opinion in the upper is Asian with sword. I wanna say operationalize. Of when you provide the central agency, assessment, do you include other questions that assess the relative balance of meeting each other's needs in the relationship? I mean every study where I'm looking it's actually totally different. So every Sunday has different things that were measuring in what we're kind of trying to assess and understand. And specifically, I'm not measuring sexually gency within relationships. I'm measuring it within individuals and individuals would then might have one partner for part of a study like two studies that we do over time and the other partners at other times. And so it's about their agency in their, these skill levels that they have within any of these relationships in might be lower different times with different people. So those are things that we're looking at looking at how pure networks with online and offline impact the development of. Agency over time and looking at sexually gency in various groups have young people, including homeless men's daily house, young people on how that might look different for them. And looking at house actually agency is related to consent literacy, and the ability to really negotiate and understand what consent is when it isn't. So I think I yeah there's a, a lot of future for development of this field. If anybody wants to study sexual agency, come back to me. I'm just curious if any for studies have come to conclusion where you have findings that you can share because my, my initial thought is if you're if you have a longitudinal study and someone self assessment of their sexual agency changes over time, also, if it's exclusive from their ability to self advocate in other ways, and their lives. How does that impact the results, for example, because if you're, I think, from at least anecdotally, for my, my own community, people might be more willing to be advocating in a less serious casual sexual relationship than in a mutually fulfilling long-term relationship, because they are they're having other things that they need to negotiate in their relationship, emotional, psychological needs. So living to say all of my research is without a lessons, very young people. So I think that their relations. Ships at those ages are maybe different than what you're thinking about. I do think there are long term relationships, but the definition of a term relationship at sixteen and at thirty six very different kind of the expectations that surround that as well. So I think that what you're saying is true, and I think, in young people, we are seeing a development and sexual agency over time, which we would expect but maybe not necessarily so dependent upon relationships for length of. Okay. And I'm really also curious about the way sexual agency intersects with consent, which because it might be high in one area, but then low in another exercising. The ability to what about consent. Actually, what, what are your thoughts about how enough is enough has come into play as it made a difference as a made a dent in your state. I mean, I think enough is enough as great. And the kind of regulations that go along with it mean that there are educational activities that are happening on college campuses, but I think that. People are universities are kind of meeting, the bare minimum of what they need to do. And that isn't really the spirit of enough is enough that as the kind of okay, we're doing it because we have to do it, and I think that we need a lot more proactive of primary prevention around sexual assault on college campuses, and that isn't happening in most places. Will CUNY on its website, actually has a sexual violence campus climate survey. And in it the survey from twenty eighteen. Correct about one hundred and fifteen thousand students, which I think is amazing around their experiences with regard to sexual assault sexual harassment and intimate partner violence yet. I think that, that was the original sample, but about thirteen to fourteen thousand people actually completed that survey, which is still a lot of people. Yeah. And so looking at the results of that survey, I was really struck by the degree to, which first of all students who had self identified as being in an intimate partner, violence relationship had their academic studies interrupted by the relationship. So, for example, there are former or current partner made physical threats to them and potentially engaged in physical acts of violence against them as well as intimidation, as a result of their going to school, and it directed their ability to study their ability to be able to hand into Simon's on time they misclass- and seven percent of them, actually reported that the IP caused into lead school. I felt like that number was actually probably understated, not knowing what the definition of. TV was that was given to these students if they even were able to identify that those were, you know, relevant situation to describe their own relationship. I'm wondering if you've had heard anything about this survey and could give some context to some of these answers, I didn't feel very surprised by the data. I think that intimate partner violence is very common more common than most of us admit. And I think that having some data about the number of our students that are experiencing is very helpful. I think that, that really builds a stronger case say this is something that we need to address. And. And I think it's something that we need to have much more openly talk about with our students as what to do. How do I defy this how to help from that you can identify as going through this? And I think that we need to I mean, I think we need to do more than we're day. Suggestions on a university setting. What faculty can do, what staff can do, obviously, everybody gets sexual harassment training, which I don't know how long it is these days. But I the last time I took it. I think it was an hour online, and there was no imprison requirement. There's no need or opportunity to engage in case scenarios at cetera to really help build upon that that trading and certainly was something that was ongoing. I'm so how do professors in people on a college campus. Become, you know, fluent in, in identifying student needs around these issues. I kind of feel like I feel, I feel a little, I guess, frustrated with university systems, kind of in trying to think about solutions to that. I feel like the most practical thing that I could say is that students when they start any course of higher education should find professors that they like entrust and start going to their office hours as soon as possible. And what, what that does is allow for a professors, to really get to know their students, personally and to have some level of personal interaction with them and to understand their lives. And then it's those professors that have relationship with the student that are able to actually direct them through this system and help them when these needs are actually brought up in disgust and personal. Experience. I have had a lot of students come to me with various issues in their lives that they didn't feel like they could tell anybody else in the needed assistance, within didn't know where to go. And I think that would allow them to do that was my reception of that. But then, also that kind of relationship that they have built by coming in and getting to know me, and so the most practical thing I would say is, as a student starting in a higher education program. Is talk to your professors. Get to know them go into their office, and then that is a real strong network of the university of topping into. In, you also address this issue through your podcast, sex rap rains. Oh, do actively, let your students know that the resources available great. Okay. Great. I talk about this extra while the time. Tell us about how did it start and you have a co host as well. Yeah. Who whose idea was it? So we started as a little over two years ago and was about two and a half years ago that I just I get frustrated with things quite often. And then I just try to think of new totally crazy work around. So I was feeling very frustrated with the state of sex, Ed in America, and in most countries around the world. And, and I just felt like how are we ever gonna get really high quality trained sexuality experts in every school all the time. Able to really educate and, and to have sex positive scientific approach to sexually. And then I thought away were not. Let me just do what they totally differ that circumvents that, so that's why I decided to start the extra up and I approached Andrew Andrew porter the university of Miami, he, and I did our PHD's together at Penn State. That's how we doing other in. We both worked with the same supervisor and we both taught the sexuality classes together in he, he was my TA when I was gino's a couple years ahead of him in the program, and, and we'd always worked well together and been friends. And so when I had this idea of wanting to start this podcast I was living in the US at the time, but I had gone back to Sydney for some research into, I was on a run incident. When I had this idea and ice Scaife Andrew and I was like, Andrew, we have to do this, and you have to do it with me, like you would be the perfect person to do this with me. And he was like, what where are you? In New York. Now. No, I just I just had to tell you right now, 'cause I'm so excited about this, and, and he had never elected. Agreed. At first he was anxious about the amount of time and work we would have to put into this. But then, does some Burr twenty sixteen? We recorded our first episode and figured out how to get it uploaded and into the right places on the internet. And then we just kept doing it and we became part of a network and we've grown so much, and we now have lab of students at the university of Miami of undergrads that support all of our social media, and really help that grow and hope our audience grow and working with us to understand how podcast can be a really effective means of health education, and it's, it's amazing. Because we know that we are able to reach young p. People in all of these places that don't have any thank said or high quality spec said we can see the data from, you know, all of these states, that don't even have any potential for her, qualities like at this time. And we, we have listeners, all in all of these places until we know where reaching the people that we wanted to rage, and it's sex education straight into your ears without a shame or embarrassment. Nobody has to know and it's directly questions that young people, I answered every episode is a question. One question we answer for twenty to thirty minutes, and we get all of our questions from young people, and I mean, it's, it's just, you know tackling the problem straight head on instead of trying to figure out all of these logistical issues that would need to change. And yet, it's really available, and that is really important to us. Have you heard? Heard from educators in the country as to whether they've incorporated into their classrooms at all. Yeah. So we've presented at some conferences. And so we've got a lot of sex educators on board as well and actually presenting a few weeks at a conference where we will be giving them lesson plans ahead directly showing them how to use the podcast in an awesome, this high school level, or college level, high school level. Okay. And our podcast is appropriate for anyone really thirteen fourteen in up, meaning where we're using scientific information language, but making sure that people at that age could understand it, and explaining things that might be higher level concepts, but it's also appropriate for people in their forties. Fifties and up for any age and I have a lot. The friends that are in their twenties, and thirties that, listen to it. My parents listen to it and learn things income asked me about. So it was saying, like it's directed at young people, but it's a it's for everybody. And you said that the by the way, love the format. We ask a question, and you focus on that, or they the questions exclusively coming from our listeners or some of them, you're coming up on your own. Sometimes we take listener question and then kind of adapt it a little bit. So it might be a very long personal question. We'll pick more generalized question out of it that we can talk a little bit more about all of the questions, we also have we had a base level of questions generated from undergrad at the university of Miami. And so that it's like where I bunch came from, and, and we've been rolling resents. Can you tell us which episodes were the topics that have been most popular ones that have gotten the moose pushback challenge? If at all. I want to say this out loud, Bill, we haven't had any real challenge. But. The most popular episodes are any episode that has the word sex in the title. I mean we can we can see that people will be starting for things and then find our podcast. And so it's is the most commonly searched word on the internet, and anything related to sex is always googled, or searched whatever search engine, you're using. So those are most popular episodes. What about since we talked about consent earlier. How popular are those is that I'm just wondering people are, you know, consciously trying to avoid that topic or engaged our regular listeners listened to all of our episodes, and there's probably a couple thousand I think of those, and then there's this other population of listeners that only like symbols opponent episode or is directed to an episode or something through a search engine. And so I would say that these other topics more kind of serious topics definitely don't get as many lessons. But I think I don't think that's the people are avoiding it. I think it's the, the regulars are listening to it, and we're not getting the extra lessons, that's my hypothesis anyway. Okay. And you've been very candid about being the first person you city who press charges using the New York City revenge porn law. And then just yesterday actually the New York your estate passed. Revenge porn law. Can you tell us how effective New York City's is? And what you think about New York states like a lot of these laws take time obviously to really have any teeth. Yeah. New York City is is okay. There are better laws around the country in my case. It wasn't hard to meet the qualifications of the New York City law. But for some people, it could be because it has a clause about emotional, harm and so- intentional emotional harm on the part of the abuser. And so some instances of revenge porn, it might be hard to show that, so that's a reason that the New York City law isn't a strong, but in my case that wasn't difficult to show. So, so I think that there definitely are stronger winds and I am very grateful than your three has one and I'm grateful. The New York City had one before. Near stated because New York state has been way behind, and that actually there's only eight other states in the US that do not have revenge porn law at this point. So New York state was very far behind in some have had those laws up to ten years or so now, so has taken quite a long time. But I'm very proud that New York has finally voted to pass that and I'm part of the New York City, cyber sexual abuse taskforce, and there are some amazing people in that task force who have been working with legislators actually am clearly advocating for some changes. And so they were able to pull a few of those changes into the New York state Bill is when that we feel pretty good about. So how does that work? If you're a New York City, if the state law is stronger, and has doesn't have that emotional harm requirement? Can we use that law is citizens? I'm not a lawyer. Sorry, I don't understand anything about this until the lawyer tells me. Okay, but and, and this will only be an issue once this is all put into a factory. So as of now, people would have to use New York City still. And then I think then that will be up for discussion win sits actually initial. Okay. Well, this is a great segue into our final set of questions, the engendered questionnaire, which I've adapted from inside the actors studio. First question, what is it stake in the struggle to end gender-based violence and oppression? We have to be comfortable with being uncomfortable react to be able to be vulnerable and open up and have real conversations with each other. And for a lot of people, that's a lot at stake to, to open up to that, and to want to explore these issues of gender and male. Privilege in our society. What gives you hope? A lot of things me ho maternity hopeful. I think you know, seeing strong, powerful women and or trans people in any station in life. Gives me hope I think seeing people that identify as this gender, males wanting to have discussions and to explore issues of toxic masculinity in start to heal that parts of themselves gives me hope a have some friends doing work like that. And it just like it makes me feel so grateful to know them into see them wanting to explore that so, yeah, I feel, I feel a lot of hope I think that there's always hope. In the final question. What can we do more or less of start or stop and gender-based violence and oppression? That's okay. How do we solve the world? Great. I mean, personally all all of my work is, you know, really related to that him. So dedicated to doing this work personally advocating in my life with the revenge porn staff n with getting this getting high quality scientific information out to young people through the sex rap in on all the research that I'm looking at sexual agency in how we can like really facilitate this in as young people are developing like that. It's all that. I put my energy into an I guess, one of the main things we always talk about on our podcast is the answer's always, communication. That's like any question where like, oh talk about it. There we go. We're done. That's the answer. Anything talking about issues of gender-based violence talking about sexual assault. It's talking about cyber sexual assaults being very open having conversations with people is what we have to do. And so I think that I would like encourage everybody to try to have at least when difficult conversation this week. I think that's a great for stop. They keep very much Dr Cooper. Thanks for listening to this episode of engendered the show is sponsored by CANDU at QNA appear base knowledge platform that connects social service providers in advice community in learning. You can join can do it. QNA for free at Q N, A dot K. A N. D U, E dot com. I'd love to get your feedback in here any questions or suggestions. You may have for the show. Please Email us at engendered podcast. A g mail dot com with your questions.