4 Episode results for "five hundred thousand acre"
How Buffalo Bill Became a Water Tycoon
"In eighteen sixty seven a call went out for rifleman to hunt. Buffalo for meat to feed the customers cruise the railroad bringing into the west. Bill, Cody a twenty one year old frontier scout pony express rider prospector a union soldier. The civil war was one of the many answered the call. Over the next eighteen months the sharp shooting Cody killed over forty two hundred buffalo for the railroad. One of the largest shares a legendary slaughter, but almost brought the buffalo to an end. But started William Cody on a surprising journey to worldwide fame as buffalo Bill. Dime, novelist. Fear in buffalo. Bill into the hero of the series of highly fictionalized stories and plays based on his exploits spent the rest of his life playing buffalo Bill and plays wild west shows. But it wasn't all make believe. Cody spent years guiding everyone from east coast millionaires to Russian czars around some of oil Ming's most scenic and dry spots. The trains brought in even more curious sightseers along with permanent. Settlers many of them came without knowing that much of Wyoming was desert dry. Cody saw his chance to make a fortune by supplying the water. They would need to survive water from the schone river. Eighteen ninety five he and two partners established Bush only land and irrigation company on the river's banks. The town that grew up nearby became known as Cody it's dual role as both a center for locals at stop off for tourists as give it a bit of a split personality ever since. In eighteen ninety five he and his partner started building dam here with a schone river once tumbled through this narrow pass. When it was finished in nineteen ten it was the highest dam in the world. The wide canyon behind it allowed cody's. Irrigation company to capture and store. The water it needed more than five hundred thousand acre feet and all water Wyoming's new farms and communities needed to grow. After cody's death in nineteen seventeen the dam and reservoir were renamed in his honor. Cody built his own home along the shores of this nearby mountain lake, but he named after his daughter Irma. It's now a sprawling retreat for the family of billionaire. Bill Gates also made his fortune in the west as a pioneer.
Encore Permian | J.D. Smith on Oil & Gas Startups Podcast - OGS063
"This is the oil and gas startups. podcast where we showcase emerging technology in the stories of industry founders investors in leaders with your host Jay Corley and Colin Macleod. What is going on digital well? KANTER's welcome back to another episode yesterday as podcast. It's the day after nape tired or here. We've got a new friend. Jackie Smith CEO of encore. Permian thanks for being here but thank you guys for the for the invite and the early morning early Friday morning. Only guys up driving into the office. What we schedule A podcast or eight? Am this is ridiculous and apologize. Everyone listening my voice probably sounds I mean. We had Wade Bowen plane last night. I'm sitting there yelling at everyone just having normal conversation station so my voice is shot. Everybody who made it out man. It was it was a great party. huge hats off to detract for taking the lead on that and getting US involved and tracks database database. Who else mineral wear were main Man It was fantastic huge thanks to Wade Bowen for plan Iraq the House so Looking forward to doing that again next year. Yeah absolutely so JD. Tell me a little bit about encore. What do you guys do so On course kind of a small little a private equity company. We started a couple of years ago and Early twenty seventeen kind of got the ducks done with a capital provider out of Minnesota. Okay Minnesota SORTA interesting the soda. Great Guys They're kind of generalist fund and don't have a ton of oil and gas exposure so is a pretty nice little feed we We kind of have to companies with our one company there in its mineral acquisition. Kind of group get guys who are calling originating getting that getting a deal done on the on the ground but also you know we kind of had that The lease game in the least game was really hot. That's kind of my background there. So okay putting together a bunch of treks rex. Get them and flip them. But then but then that's Kinda dead now so yeah. We recently got to try our hand. we we. We got a we back to our provider in a got a little bit more capital and hold off about a pretty good size asset for us eight thousand acres all blocked up and we we get to our hand at drilling on that one so Pretty exciting but just so the smallest peba companies out there so you said that you have to try your hand at drilling so is that a is that a transition and actually operating assets. Yes so we always we always kind of would operate so we'd get those stripper wells or whatever never was hp out there in the middle of base in the Delaware Basin Putting together tracks. And we weren't you scared of that What was new though is going after horizontal little development? So it's been a goal of mine for Twenty Years Shade under twenty years in the industry. So Yeah I've always wanted to lead a group get a group together and so we got a We got to Jill our team together very cool. You'll do it and everything I mean so far so good awesome. So let's talk about your background and what led up to this this point. So how'd you get into the industry. What's what's your background from a technical standpoint so so it's a lot like yours is actually yeah? Graduated graduated out of big spring another West Texas guy. Yeah in two thousand and I thought I wanted to be a pilot so we get that old airbase out and and and there was a there was a guy I think Norwegian. He was given flightless for cheap. And there's a reason for that. His planes kept catching on fire. So so this is a Norwegian guy out in west Texas given flight lessons on some cheap. He'd he'd have a bunch of guys from West Africa Gabon. Cameroon Sri Lanka either and And then me and I thought well I got I got to pay for this. I was this is gonNA come out of pocket and this was like man. I'm going to go offshore on a drilling rig approach to. That's great two weeks on two weeks off so I got a list first off the Internet you know back in two thousand it was dialup. Still up there and I had one hundred something names of vice presidents of human resources in their their phone number so I started going down the list and I'm like you know I heard diamond. Offshore was looking for a good hand. It just really kind of getting Eddie Haskell. On you know sounded like a good boy you know hey hurt. SLUMBERGER was looking for its slumber J.. Clip it's been like three episodes of the last five or six people had similar story like Schlumberger Slumber J.. It's crazy as you look at that word. Go down a list and hit that that was like a right of passage to get into the oil business. I gotta say slump slumberger one time. I should it known better growed up in West Texas probably heard. It just didn't know that was yeah. Yeah with through that list and you know get a few applications to fill out now. Those applications just ruin called me back and talked to that lady and we went back and forth a little. She's like you're you're kind of young. I was just turned nineteen and got on that drilling rig and it was the Charles Ruin Jack Up Rig and I'll never forget my first hitch out of there we. I'm driving down and it's it's a helicopter L. A. Copyright Out South Louisiana Cameron Louisiana. And I get there at like three in the morning to make my seven. AM flight and you know the cockroach comes out out of the sink at the hotel we were pulling through town. Have you ever been to Cameron Louisiana. This is the end of the world. Right there's a man you you know. South Louisiana is a foreign country. It is a different place. It's actually the only place I've ever been anywhere. We have to sign a waiver at hotels. You're saying I will not foil seafood in my hotel room. Where else in the United States can sign a waiver saying that for a hotel room there was an s ten pickup? Never Forget it at that a convenience store until the only gas station in there was like an old recliner in the back of it and there was a grandmother had to be three hundred pounds in the back of their sitting in the two. Mike what these people do. Maybe they're shrimpers. Just thought who am I what Spend a Lotta time offshore as well and so just flying out of you know South Louisiana dishes. I mean one. I think it's kind of like depressing. You had like you said you wake up at three three. AM either for five. AM flight like you don't want to be there. You know carrying your one or two offshore bags and sit there with check in and just like I don't it's just a certain certain type of feeling brings back bad memories. You're you're hitting that Reagan in the smell always got me. I guess from the Galley Ali. But I I I got on that rig and I realized like I knew I was born. Oilfield Trash me in the Charles road had the exact same birthday August twentieth nineteen anyway I got a man. It's a sign I might as well not even try to get out of. This industry tried tried my hand at that. It was It was pretty good. I made her updike pretty quick but Few months into this ridiculous. These guys are crazy and This this boat came up to our rig rig and we were doing a FRAC job and these guys come out Set the basket on the rig and they hit it just as big team they are all these big guys like thirty five years old and what you guys do and they start telling me about fracking. How do I start to work with y'all and just happened to be there was There's one guy the kind of fluid tech attack had got he was from Midland Texas Richard. Pitzer Hawk Really good guys and I think midland was you you know in the State Championship at that. Time Yep Yep so he's like what. Are you doing here because there was not a whole lot of West Texas guys. Maybe like it's odd. At first. I mean he said that you grow up in big spring and the first movie made was to go offshore. I mean it doesn't make a lot of sense in you. Have Noel field right in your backyard. Right yeah but those guys are really crazy right money. Buddy wasn't as good. I wanted us to yeah. Yeah you can't beat that two week rotation so you see these guys come on Then that that got your your your interest kind of peaked in what they were doing and so what happened. They So they gave me a a number in the office call in Lee Kilpatrick think. He's he's actually midland. Now Sign Up Lincoln but I just wore him out like hey you gotta give me a job job this coming. It's called Oscar. They had to FRAC DOC boats in the Gulf of Mexico and went down in Brazil. You GotTa get me on. Let's do this and I think it was still nineteen at the time he He he brought me onto ethic. I'm the youngest this modern day. Franken ever because all the other companies Haliburton Slumber J. How who else was out there? There's somebody else out there that you had to be. Twenty one honor you gotTa be twenty one on land. Yeah I feel like I kind of got that title out there. Nobody's been able to anybody modern day. Ah something probably happened. In the fifties he's But did that in man. I love that work. You got this crew environment It was still really old school like the first day on the boat. I go down there and this legal patrick. He gave me a envelopes. Don't read it handed to him and I later found out like years years later. My trigger told me yet. Said we're his ass out what they wanted to see what I was made of but I get on there in This one guy from Graham Texas. He's he's he's says you know I was just talking trash trying to trying to fit in. He's like you keep popping off like that and I'm GonNa Roll. You Ain't GonNa do anything anything y'all my turns back to the galleys guys in. I mean in one minute they had me slammed on the deck duct taped up put my boot off dictate to my head in strung me upside down on the second hand railing of the of the okay a step back a little quit talking so much trash. It is so funny. They did that to me on my rig to when I turned twenty one for my twenty first birthday they strapped me down duct tape me and then put me up on a wall fucking friend strategy that at my My party all of a sudden we're sitting in the lights go off and WANNA get. Bum Rushed by eleven days. So it's a No. It's funny because when you're telling the story like I'm thinking about back in my days on the rig and it's funny when you're roughneck you're always looking for what's better i-it's see all these service companies coming on. I remember I'd see see mentors. Come on the rig wireline handsome man. These guys don't do shit. How do I get get it clean? How do I get a job like that? Yeah I'm covered in mud. It's been busting my ass job like that and that's what actually led me to getting. wireline was once I turned twenty one and I could get my CD. Yeah private truck house out of there. I got off the rigs. So it's funny to you know I guess that's probably just all roughnecks always looking for the next move so yours is frat you've got into that. So how. How long did you work on the floors for rigs sunlight here about seven or so months in maybe be five on the floor for on the floor or something like that and not a lot of people? Don't have you know Ostro Communities Pretty small right. So people aren't familiar with offshore. But a Jack Up Rig rig is essentially just a really similar to land rig on steroids. You know they've they've got a deck and it's a little bit bigger but it's very comparable to land rig and I'm sure you know back in early. Two thousands Land rigs there is now right got their CRESA Gracie fucking these top driver as you here in the the drillers cabin is the size of this room drilling like man. This is fucking wild because I broke out on little shitty Kelly radio you know like I feel like I was like the last of the old school rig breeds. And it's very much how this Jack up rigs were especially early. Two thousands I'm sure so When you got into fracking you know what what happened? After after that. What what transpires though I really liked the. I loved offshore so I love the rotation my wife and I got married she she. We were high school sweethearts. We artsy was nineteen and I was just turned twenty one when we got married but We just like the life she she was WORKED FOR DEAD In their restaurant there in town so she worked a whole lot while I was gone and then we often Texas country music scene was coming on and we'd get out of town. We lived in Snyder Snyder. Texas I'm being all our friends are gone. They're gone to college. We were bored but I mean it was. It was kind of a great life there for a long time but always wanted to kind of advance and I always want to international so I guess about four years into it. I really started trying to put my feelers out international international And I got in with Baker oil tools. They had this group called the gap group and it was really cool. They had kind of like the model was like special special forces of it was like we had to say that the heart so we'd have succeeded equipment in it. Could it was built on a shipping container kind of ISO type type skit in. I mean we would just be anywhere they helicoptered into Columbia jungles. We'd We'd put a grid down and put it on just some work boat in Boho h China In in other places like that so I got to get to go to In China and that was that was really interest for that's an experience and offshore. It was so crazy All the last company that I worked foreign venture global technology analogy They run expandable casing and before the downturn. They're doing a lot of work over in China and it was onshore and one of the guy said he lost lost thirty pounds in a month. Because it's not like you're working in Beijing you're working out somewhere in rural China and you have no clue what the food is. And he's I just didn't eat. It just didn't eat. It was crazy. Thank God for the Cajun's they brought a huge deal Louisiana hot sauce still a tiny sachets and we just we get the race that was easier than just pick a gravy like it was. It was wild one one of my buddies. He he pulled a chicken head out of there and I mean it was be gablers blur feathers everything. Everything and I I ran outside. Hit The handrail. Just junkin like it was so bad so funny though like everything going on with Krahn Virus I people talking about you know Chinese cultures much You know the crazy shit right. Everyone them eating bats. Go back to South Louisiana. It's like these guys Squirrel Gumbo with the school head. And that's not normal. Might not trader said the best fight he ever saw. Two Cajun's is fighting over a turtle in the road. Certainly become super so like okay so I go on a platform. It was a Hercules rig and energy twenty one was The operator in both of these guys filed bankruptcy simultaneously. And so all we had in the Galley was big Bola peanuts first necks. And then like what they were. Cooking is like Turkey Knicks or something can can we just go fishing exactly. So how was it offshore and or was it was the actual rig offshore in China. Was it it was Imbo High Bay and and it was it was a mess. was like a new billion dollar multi billion dollar probably facility and you get on there it was brand new and sinks coming off off the walls like nothing works up to the rig floor in That platformer style. And so it was a nice looking rig but but You get to look around. And there's like one crow crow foot air connection to run. Whatever you need diver pump start your motors? And there's like eight wise on everybody trying to get into that aired so there wasn't enough for anyone that's what that's why when people talk about this Cordova Corona virus are. I don't think it's GonNa work because it's made in China. Sorry that's my bed and yeah but it was. It was just so wild working out there. The maintenance on everything was really tough. You know we. We were always like at that Oscar company. We we had to do everything we had a mechanic or ticker just whatever because we didn't have the biggest budget for maintenance so we were getting things going but out there man it was. It was wild world like just getting a pair of channel locks. It didn't slip while you put pressure on them or just anything like that was was difficult all the time when they'd by By rigid pipe. wrenches honoree they buy the cheap. Chinese shit wouldn't grit like grip on anything. Yes like hormone dies. Exactly exactly how it is and you're sitting there trying to get a bite on something and it's just slipping in your yard. You have a frustrating job in the first place and then when you're told doesn't work properly just makes it that much worse. Yeah you gotta be careful loading up on that with. Let's just say if it's a brand name wrench before I start your put up. Put a cheater pipe on it but so you go international and that's actually a big thing for me when I enjoy adventure because this was in two thousand fourteen and they're telling tell me man you're going to go all over the world. Hell Yeah I WANNA make that next step I wanna go work You know Brazil Saudi. I WanNa see all these different places and then oil fell allows so get the chance to go international. Very much So you got you got that experience you know how. How long were you going off internationally? I think I think we had about a year and a half Somewhere around our time. Our oldest daughter was a her oldest kid was born was two thousand five and I did it for a little bit longer. I I really actually thought I'd I was GONNA move international I got out of China and then all of a sudden I needed to Italy and man that that was amazingly call the weight I lost China. Found it's called palace. Oh it was so do Easter Room. There's a you can a little town piss car in Kona like a little kind of fishing. Yeah old old towns and They were they were drilling gas. Wells out in the middle of the Adriatic Adriatic and it was. It was a blast. It was kind of a unique time. we I was their ally in. I really wanted to get in favor with the the Italians in So they request being I could rotate in and out at somebody and it worked and So at least a year I got to rotate in and out of there My first trip over there it was it was crazy Boss called me. Hey you gotta get on a plane in two hours. The airports our from where I live in so I get on this plane. Get over in Italy. Landing around got picked me up. Get off get over to about three three and a half hours to the yard. And they're like yeah. You gotta get on on behalf like me and my my bag by bag didn't make it. They got held up at the airport. I need some fourteen so we do a frantic search for fourteen to to to go offshore and then all of a sudden it's like extend down. Well the stand down like lasted for a whole two weeks. So they put me up in basically the South Padre of Of Italy early so the locals goes terrible. It's beach town. Youthful beach down in all these restaurants and for two weeks I basically got an Italian vacation in the middle a eastern successor as best thing about offshore. Like I love when jobs get delayed. But I'm already in New Orleans waiting for a helicopter. Ships got it Bourbon Street for a couple nights hurricanes coming back. That's just wrong so little time. Get a natural disaster possessively always. Yeah I imagine a I mean it's kind of a known thing in the United States like we never drill for oil and pretty places. This is right and her places. So it's it's it's not very many entertaining places to go to but I mean Shit you go to Italy. I mean that's all the experience that's right. Yeah that's a trying to tie the story together here because it's it's funny start out in West Texas You go off shore. You continue living living in Snyder which it just kind of blows my mind to be honest because it working offshore and you're not dependent on living in West Texas. It's like why would you. How would you live in Snyder at of all places theorize I know so It's a that's a good. That's a really fair question. I think it was always like family. We get real close. Yeah that makes sense. I figure you know his family. That kept you guys. Is there so you go work international sunlight. You had your oldest kid Sometime during that point is that what kind of brought you did that bring you back. I'm sure I mean kids change. It is sucks being gone for two weeks or a month at a time offshore. When you have kids so is that is that kind of wood? Transitions you to come. I mean trying to bridge the gap between International Talent Beckham. To where you're at now. Yeah so that's exactly what happened my daughter. I think she just started walking. Walking in a Carameli- gave her the keys into standing at the bottom of the escalator. Coming out of the Midland airport. Yeah I'm like that's it. That was that was it. I can't do it anymore. That is that is it so Getting back home. You know things still weren't like that active. I think we're kind of off seven or so something like that. Yeah hidden downturn. We had gas but yeah it was that was about it. But I got an engineer tech position at Kendra Morgan okay. And it was really interesting. I thought well I've got all this field experience. Feel Kinda do they go to operations or something. The I thought man could. I DIDN'T WANNA go to school but cannot become an engineer. Kind of by name you know early by title but got into that and really loved. It had a real good production engineer over me and they made me go through. All these old well falls on the cats field over in a King County or King County out there way out on the eastern show and Learned a lot just to learn that production profile and all of this stuff kept at it kept at it and finally this engineer gave me the best advice. I ever took my life us like. Jd You just got too much bullshit. You need a land man. So what. What is that? He told me that's what they're called. Still you know ready local in in. I guess it was just so so kind of ignorant to the whole big picture picture and I the PPC over Midland. You know they had a lot of classes oxy Smith. He was really good guy 'cause but took off work at and you paid and He would give me a discount. He's like yeah. You WANNA learn so to call the land classes. He got caught in the bottom of the Midland County Library. And that's all just started reading all these old books that were turned like farm out books from the fifties. Yeah he's a checkerboard farm out or far manner. Just kinda learn how deal went and got ETA job with shy interest manner Shaw. He's A. He's a neat guy Kind of He's definitely you know the old guard. He's been doing it for a long time and he he ran his guys really tough he had. He had a good knack for quality but he gave me a shot. Just kind of going in there we were talking and he. I just noticed the at a solemn on his on his his book on his Bible Open I think it was like nineteen one of my favorites. It may not. That's my favorite song and So we get to talk in that. Hit it off. It wasn't that I did all this. And he gave me a job in the courthouse and I nearly got missile fired. A couple of times like running out in it was the wrestler heels area of Culbertson and just missing a couple little details but did eventually pick it up. did really good on the on the courthouse out of the running until I had a two week stint sent a landman. Did she do. Yeah so is 'cause when I worked on the rigs on land us four weeks on two weeks off and so I come. I'm from a family of Landman and always wanted to get off the rigs and my dad and uncle like whole bunch. Come do some contract work for us. You know we'll pay you two hundred dollars a day or whatever so okay cool. So they're Middle County courthouse. You know in the basement going going through records on entitle and I'm like twenty time and I'm like screw this and I'll go back to the rigs like that's my type it's it's you got to get like. I think I was at that point in life. You know when you have kids you you chill out. So I was calm definitely he has still still roughing out at that point so being in the courthouse run entitled wasn't is in Wasn't my scope. I'm a little pissed though. I was at one seventy five a day. How'd you get two hundred? I guess I I don't know which said that was just good negotiating on my part but I was just what I was offered. You just take any in what price was fifty and I probably would have taken it so So you obviously you started getting a lot of experience experience in land and then. When did you decide like when did you decide that you wanted to go off and do your own thing? What kind of what was the genesis of Well I always wanted to do deal. So you're in the courthouse in these deals you read about these deals. Whatever capacity so yeah you just get the and the? This is where I want to go so I tried things like optioned up the graph ranch for zero dollars and you know three months can give me a jump. Shot for seventy seventy five bucks and try to see if I could take that to somebody and flip it or things like that we had. I don't know if you sections slacker county at that. We just talked people into they want the least bonus and still wasn't too busy at the time but Kept doing that in a title attorney and Midland. Really good guy he he would follow behind me to do the drilling opinions and whatnot and I guess he thought I did get enough. Worke made a recommendation to one of his other clients. This little group of Midland store. Only guess so they were looking for wolfberry locations out in the Midland Basin. And you know This Guy Mentor my Jim cauthen. Good guy you're kind of stereotypical typical like West Texas. Oilman right. You had a saying forever. He's a great guy In a in a in a couple of other guys that grew to gary lamb mineral bar from years and years they They gave me a shot. They interviewed me and said Hey just go out there and so kind of open book to look for things over midland map and sure enough found like a couple of attracts got well under sub market. So this is kind of my first shot into leasing. I I was really good at it like I didn't realize I was but we'd get in there and really kind of talk about anything but the lease because they're already wanting to do it and we just we get the deal done so did a royalty rate wouldn't have to pay too much for the bonus money and then I was I knew all the clauses well enough to to keep them. I'm in there and so and these guys told me. Hey if you get if you get it below this you get an override. Well let's just what added to Get at those going and and Gary Lamb. He was working over In the Delaware Basin and hit a lot of mineral interests so just scattered throughout the Permian. So He'd get these offers offers and then he talked one of the groups into saying. Hey let me go out there and lease for you and we'll split the difference on what I can save you so we kind of went out there with that and they put a few million in there ear and they said hey go lease in the permian. So I'd find some stuff north of Paco's or loving yes. Five hundred thousand Acre too expensive too expensive so moved a little further south south. You know kind of in and around. It's got a few ranches here. Two Hundred Fifteen. That's too much. So we basically went into the Alpine high proper. An an put together about forty two thousand acres down there And for a low low price just a few million Petra heart comes in and they're are kind of coming in the Permian Chesapeake right. They just come in in a big way back then buying of everything they they just. We're going to get a foothold. We're GONNA do this so they he came in there just blew it out of the water for like forty two million bucks and say Oh. That's awesome so ahead. A enormous or miss over at over the whole Alpine hide expired. And you know but but we did that. A couple more times and You know what was great about that. What is it was to chiefs and I was Indian and one of the owner? Sun's Kinda came in and was was also there. I was training him. But Man You got to do the whole thing and we made we get to make pitches and stuff like that Just a land manager in jack-of-all-trades and deal so that kind of gets in your blood I mean you just can't get rid of that yet. We did twenty five thousand Acres Northeast Howard County that we sold to some Chinese individual investors. I wanted to get the Permian about fourteen that we did. That and was just really interesting so I got to I. I think I've least up like personally drafted dark skin and a lot of that on about a hundred and fifty thousand acres. Yeah made the land rush on the cline shale and luckily you know I wasn't wasn't in there for the long run. I did hold the bag on a few leases but most part yeah It was just a wild time right that least Russia's yeah for sure so when did you when did you start on core so my My partner right now. destler ends mm I'd set up a manufacturing company and Fourteen so I kind of thought well all these leases are doing anything to buy and I'm a bit of an entrepreneur here so you remember how hard it was to hire anybody or do anything in thirteen or fourteen. Yeah came up with this business. Plan like Labor arbitrage on welding tanks at three hundred ninety five feet in one thousand barrel tank that Anita Weld up inside now and so we Kinda took some off. The shelf seem technology and I had a partner in there who's really great it welding and the processes and I kind of a craftsman type guy on that and We built this this whole company from the ground up just nowhere now welding him up at like forty four four inches a minute. The quality was unheard of. I mean he's all I had to do is get a guy and look at it and you could sell that tank in fourteen. Yeah but then we had one good quarter order and But Thanksgiving Day like it was. It was a dogfight after that was in the business kinda working but I wasn't untrue employee of the managing aging partner so I started a talked to a friend of mine. We we he was on. The board of a foundation started the job for fourteen foundation. We do a lot of clean. Water wells in Uganda. Gonda and we worked together really well just just meshed great. And so he sold executive jets for flight options over in Dallas Fort Worth and he was is a pilot himself so I knew his wife From high school she She was friends with my wife and Snyder okay He moved to midland an and we just started working so he's still sell planes but he just wanted to do minoge all his clients. Were you guys in the in the space and yeah at a natural periodicity so I just kept drive over to get out of the house anyway. We'd look at some stuff to deal and we literally just. I think we put one hundred forty thousand in the business. He he had he had a A legalzoom yovany already and it was called Petra Lima and kind of named after him. He's like how how about we just split this up and use it as they come. Here at work and manages snowballed and and we even we took it on the downturn and we got deals done and founded opportunities and just just really snowballed it. He picked up a really great baking relationship Where we're able to finance a bit of it and Just grow grow grow grow out of out of nothing and I think when we were making their pitch to the private equity group. It's like well put in one forty took that out. Plus some did six million dollars deal had three million dollars worth of property property or prophets are in a in this amount of time and we weren't even full timing coming until the last maybe eight or nine months but things were starting to give more and more expensive so it was really good. Good timing you know mark Bore US yes. He was instrumental in that another. Mutual Friend It's actually kinda crazy. How we how we how we got our first AFO Josh? Best friend in high school in Saint Louis. His little brother was in oil and gas finance him. He sat next to another guy who went to to the Minnesota Private Equity Company. That everybody just knew everybody else. Let some pack this a little bit. Because you've got this private equity fund in Minnesota that's that's committed capital to you. Guys think it's extremely interested in your story because their story is very similar right so you didn't go to college straight out of high school going oilfield most people I mean. Look most people think that you can't do shit if you don't have credentials right. And so I it just super interested in this because to go into a private equity boardrooms. Hey look give us money. We're going to do it and you know they're looking at you like who the hell are. Oh you like bill. Here's who I am. I've done this this this this and this we put in this much money. We've done this many deals. That's that's all they need to hear right and I mean the the the deals they speak for themselves so superstar net and I know a lot of people listening to this will think that because I can't tell you how how many people I talked to extremely smart they have. They have bachelor's degrees but they think that they have to. I'd just had this conversation two days ago with with someone like all you you know. Maybe I'm thinking I need to go back to school for My Mba or a degree in engineering for people to take me seriously. And I was like I just don't believe that's that's the answer. I believe that you can do things that you've done. Jd where you can even build up resume and the results speak for themselves. So I think that's super cool but first how did you guys get in contact with the private equity fund in Minnesota because that's just really random ten that's very strange so pet Cohn our Our CFO set next to another guy and he was the director of their that that put the deal together. So Oh Jeffrey's together Jeffries okay. He just called him up and we didn't honestly at the time. It felt like we were trying really hard but looking back and seeing what capital capital markets are like right now like we did after. Try it all that one was kind of fell in our laps and it was Kinda Kinda interesting to we get just. We're really the entrepreneur. Really Headstrong in our business. So we did it as a JV as well. So we're not a portfolio team of we kinda thought say you're not even you're not even a portfolio company right interesting so they got a right of first refusal on any asset. We bring to them and if they don't take tickets so what's their thesis I mean is this the first oil and Gas Deal that they've done or no. They've got they've got quite a few It just various they don't have a ton of exposure. Yeah a few mineral groups Like a midstream and A non up act but I think I think after that last round we are one of their biggest jams that they funded out. You're so yeah. And we mentioned Jeffries on a lot of people may not be familiar. Jeffries big investment banks. They do a lot of oil and gas gas transaction. So you had someone on the team that had that that investment banking backgrounds. Yeah you know. He's the guy that can sit there and run models all day You had the deal guy right right here you know that that can put together the leasehold and all the all the contracts that are associated with it. So I mean it's it's clear that you guys had a good team mm-hmm behind it so when you went and got capital from this P. E. Group was it. You know a lot of people from what I hear. I've never raised capital for a a big asset like that but I hear the jets have an asset. I the today's climate. You know you can't you can't just go saying hey when hundred million dollars and we'll go find something for y'all L. Situation. Was it like that. You got a commitment I and then went and found assets. Yup GotTA commitment As we were doing the docks we found a nice little. Oh Nana opportunity in Howard County and we actually had a letter agreement to prefund that before we even had the actual extent. Yeah they knew it. It was GONNA be Not One huge deal. But a whole lot of little deals we've transacted on like a hundred and fifty deals in since the found a good deal on a non op if what constitutes a good deal on a non up for you just not on this in the civic deal but I mean on Nana Nana opposite interesting model right You know there's there's just a lot of different variables that go into it and one of the biggest ones is. You don't have control of the asset right and there's not always a clear path to WHO Selling her exiting this at. So you know what in your mind constitutes a good deal for non up so on this one we're renting the leasing strategy. Basically just your purchase price. Yeah can you be well. Below market is the key to somebody else's so we kind of call it trade bait so we're GONNA take this little one sixty and we're gonNA trade and Kanfer something that they don't need and and that was kind of our whole thesis at the beginning is yet these pieces put together these pieces and then start trading and I mean we did two way three way trades like trade these minerals Ever ever hear about the kids that do the stuff on craigslist. The light no light takes something. That's like a twenty five dollar item for something talk on craigslist. That's worth more and they just barter and they see that it's is kind of a challenge and we'll see if they can barter their way into time people talk about doing trades. Actually one of the first ones. I've ever actually talked about you. Hear a lot about transactions but you don't uh-huh trades Trader trader where. It's at for a small group like a set so you that's how you unlock a lot of value right. You take that stranded one sixty that somebody has has is not getting to not gonNA put energy to these big companies swamp. Yeah they're just trying to chase those rigs they can't they can't be too forward-looking on scholar assets like that so I think I think you know capitalism right. We've we've kind of found a place in there but once you get that stacked up to twelve eighty or two huma unit the value payday. So yeah that worked really Really good for a while. We we've got a south up to position that was kind of our first one that we put together. So that's what we're trying to raise capital on right now but Took a non up with some guys like driftwood and they came down there just like blew it out of the park. They they all these great will game of Before it was like is going to be quite a bit more. Exploratory is other results down there from other operators didn't didn't make it look like a great deal but yeah you know Kinda were out there playing on the core of the fringe Walzer eh on those areas like that but find a deal like taken out with Parsley and they drill a well on the east side of their trees ranch. Right it just came to came in great will heck What can we put together here so immediately? Go off set at that and make sure your geology. Still kind of in that fairway or at least you think it's in the fairway. Yeah hard trade those leases but those together and you gonNA. They're blocked put together for for development so just opportunistic. In that way we've done deals feels like mineral deals where we get the minerals in the surface bought the farmhouse because she was just done with West Texas and she wanted out at everything so why we bought a farm so termite infested. Yeah we did make money on it with it was ridiculous to sounds like y'all L.. Strategy is really opportunistic. You know it's it's you started off and minerals Then you get into some some not on working interest and then now you guys are going out and drilling new wells and so is is that is it the strategy evolving or he has going to pretty much. Have the same playbook if it makes sense so I think it's evolving Eh. You know we gotta get across the capital down on on any kind of drilling deal. That's come to to do right now but just go ahead and put those blocks together and really you know. It's it's it's like the Double Eagle model right you kind of grow into into that next segment of what you can do. I remember when we were all out there chasing laces leases John John and cody to lobby data. And get these What they call it? The W. Margarita was extradited to the central and But man they you know they they obviously set that template out there just getting Tons and tons of deal hunting more capital. Yeah I figured host yells capital group too. Because I think that You know it takes a lot on their part art understand. y'All strategy as well and understand hate is opportunistic but there's value to be captured there and I think when you have an operator like you guys match Natura the capital group. That understands that thesis known are John. Donovan has been on our show Donovan Ventures and why I like those guys very opportunistic flexible and they understand that you can make you can make a buck in these niche strategies. So I think that it's a you know. It's a good combination between between both the capital provider and yells obscene. Yeah Yeah No. They've been they've been great I We will probably do deals with those guys for a long time. They've if you hear the horror stories out there now teams that have won in the past him in winning and you get you kind of get a little upside down. Nobody knew that all all this capital is going to pull out of the markets all your SNP energy stocks are less than four percent of the talk of the hedge. Obviously see that. Did you see. See that graphic the other day that the apple one. Yeah Dan Pickering's. I was showing his Dan posted. Did you see it now here. It is right here here man. I wish we had our that is not right. He's rightly it's should not. It's wild so much energy guys you should go check that go to Dan. Pickering search twitter account and then he posted this info graphic in its got the logo of Apple and represents apple's market cap point four trillion. Yeah in and all the all the energy companies one trillion. Yeah so it's got Exxon Mobil contrary oxy fill sixty six hinder Morgan. Like how big apple is to. Its clash the tweet. I did a while back about Ribs evaluation and how they were viable almost every single one of the energy company. No It's absolutely insane so obviously you guys have a good relationship with this group out Minnesota but have you seen because obviously the issue of capital markets has been a big deal. Have you seen the effects of that. Yeah Yeah we've We've seen like you know at right. It's time to return capital. So how are we GONNA do that. On on the earliest the first fund second fund. We're still we're still cranking but later this year. We're probably GONNA run a process on it and see if we can get something done on there. So yeah it's it's It's it is tough. I think every group every not it wasn't as easy as it used to be which sixteen like how I was sixteen easy the price wasn't that great there. Yeah fifteen yeah. I think getting a whole conversation economics but I feel like like if you really look at it. Sixteen who's a downturn but people weren't there balance sheets weren't that distressed point now you get into the point where there's some extremely distressed companies out there. I mean throw a dart and you can hit some small cap. I mean look at Chesapeake 's market cap. It's it's Wild Wild Suhel is I think Max Market Cap was about one hundred twenty years. Six billion. Don't quote me on that with somewhere around there. It was like bigger than Chevron is being even at peak league. It's absolutely insane crazy. What does it lessen let sub two billion now? I don't could be way off but I know it's a No. It's not even a freshman what it used its low. It's surprising. Thank you just going lower so I think you know in the industry right now. Whatever angle you come in from people are are are feeling the effects of it so Jaydee I WANNA before we wrap this up really want to ask you a couple of questions just along your journey you know. We have a lot of people that listened to the podcasts that have that entrepreneurial neural spirit. You know maybe they're engineer at Chevron. Geologists could be a lamb in the courthouse. Is The bit that the number one question I actually I was laughing. I was telling John Someone at this at the party last night. But we have some of the coolest technology come on the show. Some people do an innovative stuff. In our highest performing episodes shows are still are Ian. P guys got this everyone's fascinated. How do you how do you start? EMP Like Jake. And I bought some stripper wells up in Oklahoma People's fucking. How do you do that? And that was just raised. A little bit of money went and did it But you know what. What's your your advice to the people that are looking to jump out? I'm sure you've learned a ton of lessons over the years Do you have anything that really sticks out about what you could have done. Better Etter along the journey or just something. That might be helpful for people that that are looking to take that next it. I don't know I just I knew I always wanted to do this. Offshore offshore fracking and drilling horizontal. This is what I WANNA do. Never ever think it would happen in West Texas but yeah so so you know that was. That was definitely opportunity. The and then Tenacity go after I mean. I got a big chip on my shoulder. Right that degrees still. It still drives me right you got to. You got to go after for that but I think the mentality that really helped me and I mean we we've been married three kids Providing for them and I just had this mentality like I don't work for a day great like after that I deal It was okay. I'm a junior partner like I don't need. I don't need overhead and it wasn't always easy like we've put it together and you'd have to. You'd have to stay in there so I think you gotta you gotTa have your your bills right. We didn't have insurance had two kids without insurance in prepaid. Then they're done that yet and you just like you. Just don't worry about you. Know the things that people worry about. I think that a lot of people get in their way and as far as its entrepreneurs and then just you gotta read a lot of books like the reading yet. A minimum of twenty bucks. And if you're reading fifty books and I'm not talking like Lord of the rings this needs to be heavy business material M. I'm whatever whatever just when you're going to go in you better really know about it. Yeah find some people ask a bunch of questions to yeah thank. Thank you know from hearing your your story. You always knew all along that you wanted to do something right. And it's sounds like you were always on the lookout for opportunity and our late in that I. I mean I'd be out on my rig scrubbing the rig. No one hundred ten degrees out midland Bust my ass. The regional might mental wonder what the economics are voting to wreak. How do I how do I buy a rig this you know? What are we making a day in and day rate you know? I think we're drilling footage at that time so that'd be run. The numbers run upstairs. Make a connection get back downstairs thinking about it again so always always looking for opportunity and always meeting people and always I can't cannot Express Express how important to continue your continuous learning meeting. Gill talking the others. That's what's so great about this show. Is that people get access to someone like you were. They can hear your about your experiences and I hope that it opens up. Someone's is like. Hey we this guy. He didn't go to college. He didn't have the credentials on his resume. He just went out there and pitch. It just made it having money. People will give you many. That's all you need is that I want to make money. And then I think the biggest biggest lie people tell themselves is that they they need to have something before they can do something and then they did that. And they're like oh well now I need an MBA. Now I need this or people are never going to trust me. It's always that self-doubt like feeling like they're not good enough. I think with us. I think we've been a little Sometimes it'd be a little bit overconfident. But we've learned so much from on that and and just never really haven't asked permission from anybody to do anything going out there and just getting it done you know and I think that is That in the continuing any medication. Obviously I guess just known for forty five minutes and I could tell the landman side of things and you know how to talk to people help you tell the story and I think that is probably significantly played in just your networking and stuff. Because you know it's still the people business first and foremost yup you gotta have some good bullshit. Jd if anyone wants defined you men are you on linked in Washington all right J. D. Dot Smith in our core Permian Dot Com our website in your your in Midland in Midland town. Guys ever want to hit them up be sure to reach out to him. Great Guy sure that that there's a lot that can be learned learn from Jd from having continued conversations. And sure if you want to do a deal. He's he's willing to talk so that's always never never seen one didn't want thanks for coming on the show. Yes Sir thank you all right guys. Thanks for listening to this show once again We're we're closing and really fast one hundred thousand dollars. We couldn't didn't do that without you. Guys we couldn't do that without a wonderful guest Who really make this show so if you could just take a second and share with your friends your colleagues leave us a rating review? That really helps hopes the sound. Catch you guys on the next steps the.
Mystery on Blood Mountain
"I'm Lester Holt tonight on dateline first thing that really got my attention is messing plug mountain and you have to be aware of surroundings all the time because just never know it started with a frightening horror flick from the Eighties Crimson. Movie is. We're GONNA take some women into the woods and then they're gonNA be hunted down decades later. It was happening for real strange vanishing in the forest we begin to to get disturbing news just broke. Another tire looked like it had been corpus Louis flat if someone has her she's afraid we have a in killer running around loose in the national forest. Could this old movie hold the key to these new cases. It's film where he's setting women out in the woods. Do you think that's the template for what he does. That's what's so chilling. Anybody could survive. It was aired and if anybody could fight it was meredith Here's Dennis Nice Murphy. With mystery on blood. Mountain national forests are places of refuge Our folks that WanNa get away from the city and have a sense of peace with nature but it now you have to be aware of your surroundings all the time because just never know the splendors. The Americas National Parks Forest Lands Poems. Just waiting to be written by inch new visit from the cathedrals of the rockies to the quiet glades old growth of the Appalachians. It's here in the parks. We have the promise of stepping out of the hubbub of our chattering daily routine. That was the kind of serenity Meredith Emerson sought on the Crisp New Year's Day in the north Georgia mountains. Not More than foothills really for a young woman who eloped trail climb her native rockies. It was two thousand eight. The young sales assistant set out from Buford Georgia with her dog L. A. Roomy Julia currently or from college days had slept in that morning she had left me a note just a little note on a chalkboard took Ella went hiking not wear not when not one. I'm going to be back back so it wasn't really anything out of the ordinary meredith like Rumi. Julia was a dog person. She doted on L.. Her black glad mixed since finding her the rescue shelter she had two dogs growing up and she wanted one of her own so she kind of talked about it and research. What she wanted hidden definitely wanted to rescue dog and finally found one went out loved her brought her home and it really was the light of her life Julia? The roommate didn't know that meredith an Ele- were heading forty miles. North to Blood Mountain chattahoochee national forest despite the creepy teen slasher remove name. Blood Mountain is one of the most popular places to hike in the southeast. The famous apple H.. In trail two main takes off from just south of here back in Beaufort. The roommate spent her New Year's Day with friends and did notice. That merited hadn't come home until the next morning a- back to work day. She would leave Ella in my room and I would take care of her in the morning And I'm like Oh L. is not here. It's that was a little strange to me. And I called her cell phone and went straight to voicemail and I thought maybe shows that work when when did you become anxious Jillian. When I got to work she worked with a good friend of ours and the friend called me and said Meredith stingiest for work and mayors always at work? She was the first one at work. Reliable Meredith wasn't where she was supposed to be. Julia called the sheriff socks then she and some of meredith other other friends assembled a search part. Maybe she'd twisted her ankle hiking and taken a tumble. They started with that note on the chalkboard where I'm going hiking would naturally be. We had a few ideas. We took some books that she had some places that she highlighted in kind of deserted driving the French poodle the car at trail heads. She'd mark in her hiking guides. There was four of us in the car and we were trying to tell me a call Park Rangers and anybody that may have seen her her car and then a friend of hers found her car called US and said I found it and there was snow on a car parking area at the base of blood now and we drove Casaus. We could there and just you know just that sinking feeling when you first see it up the blood mountain feeder path to the Appalachian Trail But no trace of meredith or so by nightfall. The search became all the more urgent as a cold. Front moved in temperatures on Blood Mountain plunged below zero at daybreak Thursday. Now the friends were joined by deputies from the local sheriff's Office John Caygill just shy of retirement. Was the agent charge for the Georgia Bureau of Investigation States. Top cops received a request from local agency to help with a missing hiker. The case of the hiker missing for two days didn't look good to the season detective because of some disturbing items that had been recovered on the trail. What were the things that were found? Addison trail area that you thought were alarming. A couple of water bottles dog leash and Police expandable baton. This is a piece of professional gear. It is it's just a metal pipe that is expandable. You see almost every uniform police officer in the nation carrying these things did those artifacts the water bottle the the baton found together. Tell you a story at all or suggests something ominous yes and we found those items in an area where the ground had appeared to have been undisturbed then we became concerned. Possibly a struggle took place there. Meredith water bottles ellas leash and signs of a struggle. Nothing about about the scene. Look good to the veteran law man especially that expandable police baton that was found he called in health. Aw eventually partnered with over eighteen or nineteen police agencies to help search from that. Her friends were naturally beside themselves. You know your heart just broke because you think something happened. Somebody had a weapon and stuff was there. She's been abducted and it was so hard because it wasn't something that we could talk about until we could actually prove that the cops commandeered a park building headquarters. We begin getting information pretty quickly. It from people who had hiked the trails at day right remembered her remembered her and we began to get Disturbing News of strange looking individual with meredith who also so had a dog some nail description. This other person. You hear strange looking Just a wiry kind of guy older guy older guy we even developed a vehicle description. White van the lead on the van came from this photo taken by a hiker in the blood mountain parking lot the night before Meredith Emerson Jason went missing a beyond. The lookout advisory went out for the guy driving a white van accompanied by his reddish dog. It is going to be a white male between the ages of fifty and sixty years old approximately one hundred and sixty pounds. It was described as he has bad dental. He had a dark reddish colored Retriever we put out that information through the media in Atlanta and actually got a call from someone who said I think coming to see it when we return. This mysterious stranger would prove to be stranger than anyone expected. I just turned. Wipe out the blood. Leave my face and Meredith. Emerson had not been the only one missing in the forest. If she's still alive and someone has her her she's Afraid Meredith Emerson and her lab L. A.. We're two days missing on Georgia's Blood Mountain early. In a freezing January of two two thousand eight her friend had alerted the authorities and people from all over greater Atlanta were scouring the hiking trails so many volunteered. They couldn't use all all people just showed up and just said I have a daughter who likes to hike. I have a sister who could have been meredith easily and they just volunteer onto their time. The search in the national forests had become something more ominous than a lost hiker incident. Meredith had been last seen in the company of an an unsavory looking. Stranger law enforcement was about to identify the tip came from John Taber Atlanta businessman. He was watching the continuing continuing news coverage of missing Merita during his morning workout when they started giving the description on the person of interest Myers really parked up. I think I just turned white. It one point. I felt the blood. Leave my face Taber. The businessman thought this has got to be Gary Hilton. Hilton was a guy who'd worked on and off for him for for years. I as a telemarketer then as an independent contractor in deciding business he even lived for a while and this little house that taper on. What was the thought? That was taking shape as you're listening to this. The first thing that really got my passion is is where the event happened where she wanted missing blood mountain. I knew that was a place. He liked to hang out that he had a dog with him and most importantly was the evidence that they had found the same Hilton. Always had expendable police Baton with him the tip and and a name quickly led to a Georgia driver's license for sixty one year old. Gary Michael Hilton. Investigators showed the photo to hikers. Who idead him as the scruffy mystery? Man Seen with meredith on blood mouth. The manhunt was on. We put that name and face out and that's plastered all over the Metro Atlanta area is the AP be went well beyond the Georgia border. Hilton's name and picture were all over the regional news. lightbulbs began going off to the south around Tallahassee Florida's capital when people there so his photo on TV the search for Gary Hilton was about to widen the mystery. Man Person of interest in the Meredith Emerson case looked familiar to people who thought they'd seen him just about the time they learned of the sad case of another woman who'd gone missing Shirl dunlap unearth and mother. WHEN CHERYL DIDN'T TURN UP FOR CHURCH ONE December Sunday in two thousand seven and then Mr Sunday school class red flags went up and next door neighbor and friend? Tanya Land Sunday morning at Church. I'd turned around and looked at her usual spot. She wasn't there and you didn't teach your class and immediately. We knew something was wrong. Because that's just not like her. Everyone who knew her agreed. Forty six year old Cheryl was reliable. A woman solid interfaith breath and set fellow nurse friend and prayer partner again. She always liked to hear What we call our praise reports like like something good that happened with a patient or a CO worker? When Monday morning rolled around in Tanya still hadn't been able to reach Cheryl? She walked next door. That went back down to our house and saw that the dog was at the House but the car was gone so I called her off several times and they hadn't seen her shoes daughter-in-law Tabitha called the sheriff's Office to report. Port Missing Wellingtonians. Such show for work. I knew there was a problem after that missing. Persons report was filed. The friends heard about a car. That looked like Cheryl's roles spotted on the side of the highway leading into Tallahassee. They headed up there a sheriff's car on and immediately they said deputy up there and just took over from that point apprehensive. Rancid you out. Yeah I was very uneasy. I knew that there was something wrong. Juries car was parked well off the highway. Florida Department of law enforcement agent. Any what it was pretty clear from the beginning that that's not someplace that she would parked it as well as the tire looked like it had been purposely flattened on the vehicle Michael and abandoned Kara slash tire searches law enforcement. Volunteers began fanning out into the adjacent fifty. Seven seven thousand Acre Appalachia Coal National Forest. All of them with dread in their hearts love will be devastated. If something like this happened to my family and so that's why I want to be up here for in. There were massive searches in town. Thousands of people showed up to comb the woods looking for her. It was clear very early on that. This was unusual for her. She would not have gotten in the car with someone who just was not the person who would have disappeared. Tallahassee Democrat senior writer. Jennifer Portman covered the story. We're talking about North Florida. In the panhandle area. People are found by their schools by their family by their churches and Sunday. School teachers with children and Grandchild. Don't go miss. That's exactly what her friends and family were as baffled as the police by Cheryl's disappearance law enforcement was trying to put the pieces together when they looked into Cheryl's background around nothing jumped out at two sons long-settled divorce no boyfriends then on Tuesday. Four days after she was last seen the cops got her bank records. Something was up. We found where some ATM activity had occurred in Leon County. That's big break. Yes Sir and then upon viewing in that video in Leon County It was clear it was not her. This was a male subject using her car. Use disguising his face so we knew at that point definitely that it's probably not going to be a good outcome from stunned. The disguised man made three separate withdrawals of seven hundred dollars. The ATM tap was was in downtown. Tallahassee near the campus of the State Youth Miles from where Cheryl's car was found so you and the team stakeout the ATM machine stay there. Several days is day and night watching the ATM and he never came back to that one. The search for Cheryl stretched on for weeks and a lot of us went out on our own and searched the woods and went to places. We thought you know she could possibly be the more time goes on inevitably. I just just. It's just because I'm thinking if she's still alive and someone has her she's afraid. Mid December two weeks after Cheryl disappeared some some hunters out training. Their dogs in the National Forest noticed a vulture circling in the sky above them went to check it out and discover the body a female email body missing its head in hands a grizzly fact not released at the time. I think this is someone trying to conceal the identity. It took a DNA sample from Her to th- brush to identify the remains. As those of Cheryl Dounreay someone called and said Laura. They found the body. We pulled with over on the side of the road. And just you know just there was it be wearing this was there. It was surreal You know the thing you hear about movies and it was so close to home that in our small community that something like this could happen now with cops in Florida looking hard at Gerry Hilton in the Dunlap murder and counterparts Georgia convinced that he'd taken Meredith Emerson Authority started hearing about yet another national forest homicide this one in North Carolina. Then you gotta be saying all your team investigators. What do we have you? That's right and so now. We're we're really wondering who who we have here and more importantly which made it coming up. We have a killer running around loose in the national national forest concern for Meredith deepens but her friends know something that man on the mountain. Couldn't Kato and Blue Belt in judo. The Dow if anybody could survive it was her death when dateline continues and we're was merit hope Emerson. Could she still be alive. Somewhere out there in Georgia's Chattahoochee National Channel Four's and did the twenty four year. Old hiker have a prayer if she were indeed in the clutches of mystery man. Gary help the search on blood mountain went into into a third day. We had the hope. I mean we were there from Sunup to sundown. Plus I mean we were there through the night in the cold and all the searchers and but if anybody could survive Evan Meredith and if anybody could fight somebody like that it was meredith. Merida's parents had flown in from Colorado joined. The searchers Peggy. Bailey a family. A friend was their spokeswoman. Let me tell you something. Meredith Emerson could do anything. She is feisty she is strong she's tiny and petite one hundred twenty pounds. But let me tell you. I have every hope that anybody could. She can run those mountains. She she's a strong person. If anybody can survive this she can. The missing woman was deceptively strong. Not just an experienced hiker but an accomplished martial arts enthusiast as well and Lavelle an Akito and blue belt in judo on apparel absolutely I mean she would fight you and chewed actually come home and tell me you know I threw this two hundred and twenty pound man man. I beat him up today in class by now with half of Georgia looking for this Gary Hilton authorities outside Tallahassee Florida to the south. We're we're wondering about his connections with the missing woman there. It was then at the detective. Scott solid information about another killing in a national forest. We're in our command post and detective walked in and said that They had a case took place in North Carolina Bobbing Husband and wife that the the wife had been been murdered in the Pisgah national forest. That detective was working an unsolved case. That had cops in North Carolina bewildered. David Mahoney is sheriff. Europe Transylvania County beautiful place with an ominous name that has nothing to do with fangs. Dripping blood we have wonderful attractions here. All those things along with a slower pace of life is what brings folks and keeps folks here folks like John and Irene. Brian do after raising a family retired here far from the brutal maybe winters of upstate. New York and close to the hiking trails they loved Holly. Bryant is the youngest of their four children. They love the outdoors when when they were first married. I used to go out hiking in the mountains. They would take us hiking and as they got older it take the grandchildren not hike into the. Bryant's had a lifetime of outdoors. Experience had hiked all over the world. My father completed the Appalachian trail. Oh which is two thousand miles from Georgia to Maine. They traveled extensively to a New Zealand and author here up author America America especially the southwestern and northwestern United States in late October. Two months before Meredith Emerson disappeared the couple set off on a day. A hike in the five hundred thousand Acre Pisgah National Forest. No one heard from them for two weeks. Always let us know if they were going on one of their many trips etfs so I was totally unlike them to just disappear their son. Bob Flew in from Texas. The newspapers were around the doorstep. He broke into the home And and founder breakfast was still out on the table but obviously many days old and he knew something was terribly wrong. My brother searched. He went up and down every little back road throughout the park. He found their car at a trail head in the national forest. By then Sheriff Mahoney's office was involved. Rescue squad began a search assuming that there had been some medical problem problem or something that had followed an opponent in my heart. I I knew that wasn't the case they there's just no way they would both be both be hurt like that. They were very very experienced. Fortunately it was not very long. After we began service that we discovered the body of Ms Brown was a sense of finality. I knew she was gone already. But that little glimmer particle hope was extinguished English when they found her body Irene. Bryant's remains were located thirty yards from where her son had come upon the car. She had been bludgeoned to death. But where was the husband. We began an even more extensive search for Mister Bri- that surge really involve the entire area of his national forest within hours of discovering Irene. Bryant's body detectives learn three hundred dollars had been withdrawn from the Brian Accounts using an ATM card in Ducks Town. Amount Tennessee had a picture from the machine. The man they had concealed his head and face that was able to successfully use the bronze ATM. Whoever was making the withdrawal it wasn't seventy nine year old John Bryant but time and geography were working against the law man? We spent weeks weeks everywhere in that entire area. We did everything from vehicle patrol ATV patrol horseback on foot everywhere Sir John Bryant had seemingly vanished from the face of the Earth the FBI posted a ten thousand dollar reward for Information Buck. The Bryant case went cold and until Meredith Emerson loomed on the LAUMAN's rate on our late investigator began following that case and immediately there were some mm-hmm similarities that we saw between the two cases. Both of these incidents occurred own for service land. We really felt like that. The two were you probably can make. We may go years without a homicide. This was very very different. Do we have a killer running around loose in the national forest in Georgia. The searchers looking for Meredith Emerson and her dog L.. On what mountain were hoping and praying that they weren't dealing with homicide do everything we can do to make. Sure that She saw if she's up there that we get out of there and get her out of there safely If he's not there to do everything we can do to eliminate that as okay Possibility and then continuing investigation in their Georgia authorities were composites. A profile of Gary Hilton was starting to look like a person of interest. Not only in the Meredith Emerson disappearance case but in at least two unsolved murders in the national forests. Their findings were deeply trump coming. It might a movie hold the key to this case. Prince movie is going to take some women into the woods and then put they're going to be hunted down. It's Gary Very involved in the scary. Throughout on blood mountain there was still no trace of meredith emerson her friend Julia. And the searchers found no news to be good news. It might be a good thing that you know. She might be somewhere warm their dog you know and and somebody might just have her or or something like that kind of makes me feel a little better Knowing that that we haven't found anything here yet well. Hundreds of volunteers and deputies deputies scoured the forest for clues. Detectives were trying to get a handle on Gary Hilton the suspect in her disappearance and who was by now L. A. person of interest in at least two murders John Taber Hilton's former boss gave investigators. What background he had on? His Eccentric Loner Employees I had known him for nearly a decade. The only interest that he had in life seemed to be his dog and going out camping with his dog. UGH for extended periods of time and in the Wilderness. Hilton's Dog Dandy had been at aside since he started working for Taylor. The former boss had come to regard Hilton. As a hair trigger triggered nutcase. He often tells stories of going to parks with his dog and he would end up in altercations with other pet owners. It was always the same story. He reprimand the other dog owners behavior. Then the other dog owner would get angry at him verbally or physically assault him so he was always the victim for the First Nine Years Hilton worked Eh citing business taper called him as a good employee then something seemed to snap. Things started to change quite dramatically starting in two thousand and seven and what happened that he just wasn't doing any work decided to go and just see what was going on over there. It was a very bizarre same house on his physical appearance. was quite different immediately smiled to show that he was missing several teeth and he went on to explain that he had actually taken a pair of pliers and removed some some of his teeth and he said he enjoyed doing that. Because it frightened people taber fired Hilton. Who then turned around and claim Taber owed him money by mid summer summer? Two thousand seven the citing guy said he feared for his safety finally threatened to kill me he made it tomato very clear. Jaber took those threats series. I immediately immediately are myself with the Glock nine millimeter and then a are fifteen. Assault rifle started driving rental car. So he wouldn't know what vehicle I was. He was your boogeyman absolutely. It was a terrifying ordeal not to know what was going to happen to point driveway. And have someone jump out of the bushes and maybe assassination win. The former boss finally went to the police with his story. It seemed to do the trick within a day or two. He had packed up all his belongings and moved on but all the stuff in the van into yes. John Table was relieved to see the Hilton in his rear view mirror but he was nonetheless puzzled by the change. That had come over the man around someone for nearly ten years and it's full there. There's there's nothing that ever happens. This suggests a demonic violent personality that that apparently materialize. Somehow Taber had hard hard to the Gary Hilton Picture veteran Atlanta criminal defense lawyer added more. Sam Rail had defended Hilton years back on some minor. Ish beefs wait. Did the jury trial on a drug case possession. He was accused on a misdemeanor of acting like A charity and he really wasn't a charity eight and he raise money to help the little children. Of course he pocketed it the job to speak of or anything that he did professionally. His job was Scamming gaming that's what he did. Mostly you knew him as conman basically right he was a little con when he got tripped up. Go call on you. He did real. The lawyer. Royer wears two hats. He's also a movie producer. Not Hollywood but more of the released direct to video school. This is his latest released. They don't do shooting gory. What's genre try not to make it? Gory but at the end of the day A little blood little sex little Little violence can't hurt as it turned out. COPS on the Meredith Emerson case were particularly interested in rails first movie deadly raw. He made it back in. Nineteen eighty-five the assistance of his scam. Artists Client Gary Hilton. Trump's the movie is That we're GONNA take some women into the woods. Then we're going to befriend those women and then put big can be hunted down. Is Gary involved in this sense of like a script writer. Anything that formal Gary Is. He's helping me throughout and then helping the star figure out how to be a serial killer. These ideas you guys are not going around. Gary has a dark dark side sometimes here and there he wants to get involved in the movie but he wants to make darker and more horrible meet like to have more blood more Gore have rape have have more killings things like that. I thought we toned it down and made a better movie. He suggested that we do it up. Woods it helped me find some of the locations. We found the cabin. That cabin used in the movie happened to be in the chattahoochee national forest. They just north of where Meredith Emerson went missing. He's around the table. Are you guys collaborate on this film house he behaving around Your Your Group of movie when the movie was being made. He's animated but interesting so he's not a loner. No He's a lunar. He's a psychopath. He say sociopath path he's always trying to get one step ahead of the law. He's always doing something a little bit wrong but all my clients they do that too. It sounds like you're talking about kind of a charming guy. He was charming. He was personable. He was a fellow that you'd WanNa meet which are all skills you need to be a successful con. Oh man if you're gonNA keep an edge but the lawyer in movie producer had a falling out with Hilton over of all things. Ah Dog dog seemed to be important to them. Dogs were very important to him. He wound up with my dog but I had Dog Look Nice little golden retriever. We had them in the backyard. All all of a sudden I come back one day. The dog has gone. Of course. I'm very upset about it. Then I find out that Gary took the dog you still as their profile of Hilton became clear and became more trouble. Investigators looking for him and Meredith. Were desperate for any lead on his whereabouts and they were about to get eh. I answer my cell phone and I heard his voice. Didn't believe it coming. A trap is set to lure Gary Hilton from the hiding spot. Trying to play a cold and a dramatic new league could lead police to meredith. She could be alive alive and we just can't let when dateline continues Police were convinced. The missing hiker Meredith Emerson was under the control of Gary Hilton. Somewhere in north Georgia. The more they learn about the survivalist oddball who was a person of interest in two murders national forests elsewhere. The more they feared for her. Uh a friend of Meredith family appealed directly to Hilton have that he realized that this would be helpful that this that his heart would be softened pendant turned to To come in for with information so please please have the courage to come forward. We we need you there next. Delete the big one came from an unlikely source. The suspect himself three days into meredith disappearance. Gary Hilton called his old boss. Taber I answer from my cell phone and I heard his voice couldn't believe it he pretended enacted as though nothing was wrong. So he didn't let on to you that he was the subject of a man. Oh absolutely not tape acted as though he knew nothing about it which apparently was the case. He apparently had no idea startled. But Thinking Fast Taber tried to Lure Hilton to an agreed upon location with the promise of money was trying to play cool so I didn't know anything about what was going on. I told him that I would give him a check for eight hundred dollars and we discussed place to leave the check. Were you at that place that he knew to come and show up and it was throwing my objective to get him to a place where authorities could apprehend him. The trap was set a building owned by Taber where Hilton had lived for awhile. The SWAT team was dispatched. What Hilton Fall for the pickup? Some money reuss and what about out the missing woman in your gut did you. Meredith was still alive. You know may snared hope Emerson and we all hoped that She was alive life. Has the manhunt continued. There was a glimmer of hope Friday morning. Four days after meredith vanished the US. Marshals Service traced activity city on Merit as bank cards. The card was used at a local bank fifteen miles from the abduction side and then again fifty miles south of the abduction abduction site. And then the next day eighty miles. These were attempts where no money was taken which suggests what suggested that wouldn't give them the right pen which also suggest S.. Maybe she's still alive that's right investigators. Meanwhile had been able to trace the phone. Gary Hilton used earlier to call his old boss. John Taber who'd set a trapper him. That call was made from a restaurant about fifty miles from Blood Mountain Hilton. It seemed was moving south towards Atlanta metropcs. PD Swat conceal themselves in a near Tabor's building. That was the drop point. Were old boss had promised Tilton he'd leave him. Eight hundred dollars stake at the location. You're surveilling it and they didn't show no show no show we're still looking and wondering where this guy but now we have fifty miles from blood mountain. The tip line line kept ringing with Leeds. Good and back then four days in a Friday afternoon a shopper called to say that she found a black lab mix wandering around a supermarket supermarket. Parking lot is surprised to see any dogs running loose in the parking lot and then to find out that it's the one that meredith Was was turned on. This has pretty big surprise in the shot. She took the dog to an animal clinic where the vet was able to read and identity chip implanted. Inner sure enough off it was ellen but where was her own merit now. Events were moving quickly right away. Came another tip or we get a call from a female acquaintance Long Hilton stating that. She just hung up the phone. He called her and Money and she commented that she said. Don't you know the world's looking for you any any hung up Hilton called from a payphone at a convenience store near where meredith dog had turned up. You have a living pet missing owner handphone which is somewhere in the vicinity of this. Yes guy you believe Israel while the agents are searching in an area that convenience store they look in the dumpster and and it was in the dumpster we found Mayor de identification or purse bags of bloody clothing. And at that point we felt liked it this this was not going to turn out his widow then around eight. That nine still Friday not far from where Taber had set the trap for Hilton more than one. eagle-eyed citizen noticed a man emptying a white van. Happy up here here. Here's a white van. Rodolphe wandering around coals lit up nine one one. This one lasted for twelve minutes back. I had the person of interest in missing woman case. Is that this Chevron Gasping on Nascar done manage their van is here her dog dog and I saw the man's face and I've been watching the news and I know I'm being all this stuff other than getting around. Like he is guilty of I take him down if you aren't there right there. Also copped the back of the got him now here careers. Gary Hilton was under arrest. Detective swarmed over the Filthy Astro van Dan and inventoried his possessions looking for any clue to Merida's fate. GB spokesman updated the media. It's a missing person's investigation right now and that's how we're pursuing it Imported key might be Any knowledge that Mr Hilton has take me inside your situation room when you get the news. Atlanta's got him. We're very pleased with the fact that now we have this man But we we can't lose sight of the fact we don't have meredith yet and and the possibility that she she it could be alive and we can't let up and so we attempt to interview him. He refuses to take your questions cops had. They're mad but not meredith. Could they crack him get from him. The story of what had happened in the national forest. ooh and your decades a law enforcement agent if you ever had a session of interviews like this one he was very straightforward and was very nonchalant Saturday morning. Five days after Meredith Emerson vanished on Blood Mountain. Gary Hilton was charged with a crime against her kidnapping with bodily injury. Hilton soon was in custody. But he was uncooperative. SIPTAH giving his interrogators nothing on Meredith whereabouts. And what he'd done with neared its middle name is is hope. And that's exactly what the Lord gives us for her so we are hoping that we're talking meredith in the present tense and that we will. We'll be finding her and that she will say come home to us. The searchers in the field meanwhile shifted their focus from blood mountain to these woods. Called Dawson forks. About thirty minds to the south it was from around here that milkmaid made those phone calls to his ex-boss remember by then Merida's bloody clothing had been retrieved from a dumpster. It's not a good sign at all. But as long as there was the most remote chance that she was still alive. The search was going to continue but lead agent. John Caygill new. These vast woodland's very very well and he knew the odds of finding needles and haystacks as he saw it he had only one option repugnant as it was and that was to cut a deal with Gary Hilton Sunday morning we got him a lawyer and how went up and had a had a talk with her lawyer and essentially laid out our case. Hilton's lawyer then then conferred with his client. The district attorney was brought into the loop ended. Deal went down. Hilton would plead guilty to murder. Because that is what it had been. And then he said he'd lead investigators to Meredith's body in exchange for taking the death penalty off the tape. Nobody in law enforcement likes to make deals without holding their her nose. We had to do it and you know we. We needed to find meredith And given the circumstances I would do the same thing now. Now some guessing agent the situation in your interview room is Gary. You told us what you did to her. Now where'd you put her yes and He told us a manacles. Hilton was loaded into vehicle and he led lawmen down a trail in Dawson forest. Down there on the road that I will be approximately forty yards or a hundred twenty covered by leaves and brush ahead. We'll be missing. Where's the only reason? By the way was renewed Morenz equally clearly shaken agent. Cable told hold it Lanta about the tragic outcome at approximately seven thirty this evening. The body of Meredith Emerson was discovered wooded area the specific information and given as to the location of the body was given to me by Gary. Hilton the kidnapping charge was antidote. Mitch Hilton is being charged. Wouldn't count murder of Meredith Emerson. He has been taken into custody and brought to our attention center where he's being held in your decades a law enforcement agent if you ever had a session of interviews like this one no no. He was very straightforward and was very nonchalant about the whole time. So you get avenue point. Were well like Meredith. I forty dollars mine and kill a lion and after his initial confession Gary Hilton. The man of stony silence became a chatterbox spilling out a story. That it's sicken detectives who thought they'd heard everything. He began with Meredith abduction here on a hiking trail on blood mountain. He said that he ambush meredith and her dog gala. She came down the trail. It was a struggle and meredith with her martial arts skills. Hilton tells it very nearly got the better of him twice. She disarmed him first taking away a knife and then his police baton control above though not into that he's real good with their hands and had no hesitation about Ryan with everything and we had and Hilton said they scrap so hard. They tumbled off the trail separated by a few yards from that drop police baton Merida's water bottles dog's leash objects importantly very soon to be recovered. Meredith meanwhile meanwhile kept right on Hilton and again and her got me I've been back into the crashing Just a few minutes. I would be people that now that I would have picked it up. You talked about fighting with meredith that she almost took him. I don't really believe everything. And he says but that part I believe. There's no doubt that she fought and and you know. Maybe it's a little bit that kind of gives you a little smirk to know that you know she almost. She almost got him. She gave him a run for his money. And I'm sure that he may have thought I should have maybe chosen somebody else else eventually. Hilton War Meredith down by then they were way off. The main trail Hilton tied his captive to a tree and then double back to that site site where he'd been stripped of his weapons. The bayonet was gone lost on the forest floor and a hiker had already picked up the police Baton Hilton returned to meredith pill and now skirting. The main trail Hilton led meredith back to his van a trail head parking there. He secured her with chains in the back of his vehicle and then proceeded to steal her bankcards from beneath the front seat of her car. Hilton drove off heading gold miles north to an ATM in Blair's Ville Georgia. He told Detectives Meredith had given him or pin numbers. Back on Black Mountain. Did Meredith suspect. It would be all over for her if she gave him the correct numbers in any case she'd given him that information and more. She's you still follow me. It'll be welfare. Hilton next. Tried to use MARANISS cards at a bank fifty fifty miles south in Gainesville Georgia again. No dice he made camp that night with his captive in a remote spot in the forest. The next morning Hilton attempted to use Merida's Bankcard still again at an ATM. In canton Georgia nothing. They returned to his hidden campsite. He held meredith all together in the woods for four days. And what nature of Man. Is Gary Hilton. Well listen to the confession tapes to what he says about Merida's dog Ella. Hilden says he knew. The PAT had that identifying chip when he let the dog go in the supermarket parking lot. If I want to ensure that no one would associate the a dog with her. I would have killed the doll. But there's no way I can do that. He was too much of a softie that. Kill the dog as he explained it. But poor. Meredith Ellis owner never never had a chance beginning. Yes you dodged told you. Once you've done it you gotta kill her get call. Then there's no the solution and that now. He was in his unbelievably cold. Recollection of the crime. Hilton said he told Meredith. He was going to let her go after four days of captivity wig packing up and down taking her Releaser Instead Hilton. Went to the van came back with a tire iron and bludgeoned into Meredith Emerson to death in an attempt to thwart investigators. He decapitated and poured bleach over the body. This gruesome beyond belief. We've Yes for what reason I don't know Hilton had confessed to killing Meredith Emerson. But what about those other cases in the national forests a woman in in Florida the elderly couple in North Carolina. He would not talk about anybody to us because you have to wonder when the switch was thrown because man oh I know how many decades does this go back. I don't know do people just wake up. When they're sixty one is starting to do these kinds of crimes? The way he did you know I would think not coming up how a terrifying movie fantasy morphed into real light do you think that's the template what he does decades later. That's what's so chilling dateline continues. Willie geist here this week. On the Sunday sit down. PODCAST I sit down with rapper. Actress Comedian Aquafina to talk about her huge year with roles in crazy rich Asians and oceans. Ocean's eight get the podcast now for free wherever you download yours continuing with our story meredith. Amerson went for a hike with her dog. On Blood Mountain in the chattahoochee national national forest then suddenly vanished just browse. We became concerned that possibly struggle took place days later a survivalist named aimed Gary Hilton confessed to her murder. He talks about fighting with meredith that she almost took him shallow Scott Him. She gave him a run for his money. Investigators investigators fear. There are more victims. Could this old movie hold the key. To these. Other cases there scenes were reenacted. Their staff talk a lot of similarities. That's what's so chilling here again. Is Dennis Murphy. Marriage Emerson went missing New Year's Day less less than a month later Gary Michael Hilton appeared in a Georgia courtroom and pleaded guilty to her murder. Merida's parents were there for mother. Susan Addressed Hilton. Believe he has nothing more than a bully. And a weak minded coward prey on others fancies himself or survivalist. Well anyone can see experimental man on the run. The state honored the deal. It made with the killer no death penalty and he was sentenced to life in prison. Hilton admitted nothing beyond beyond the Emerson murder. First Time anything like this alert nine turning answering by now investigators from a half dozen southeastern states beats as well as FBI profile owners were rummaging through Hilton's passed by the time he was captured he wasn't much more than vagrant and a van but his past was more complex complex as an army veteran. Hilton at earned an associate's college degree gotten a private pilot's license on the GI bill and been married three times before the wheels apparently came off true crime author. Fred Rosen has written more than twenty five books including trails of about. Hilt underestimate him foolish. This is a very dangerous. Purcell according to Rosen. He was shaped by a number of factors Hilton. Who never knew his is biological? Father was raised by his mother and stepfather. A Horse trainer from Argentina. Do Juvenile authorities run into young Gary Hilton along the way when Gary is fourteen years old he takes a gun and he shoots his stepfather. He doesn't kill him but he wounded wounded very severely and he's institutionalized. They put him in a mental hospital out in Miami Hilton went to High School in Hialeah Florida late in a rock band and eventually joined. The Army Akaki Hill made sure that the cops who arrested him knew of his army service back in the sixties with a unit armed with tactical nuclear weapons. I had not handled nine and Hilton Brag to the officers about his conman criminal past anyway in my life except for the US. Army okay. On Wall Terry from seventy three ninety three okay for twenty years. He's collecting money for charities scam artist. He's a scam artist. Exactly and what about Hilton's dip into the movie business that semi slasher flick deadly run that he helped make in the nineteen eighty s in this where he's setting women out in the woods and killing him hunting. If you like your little outfit I picked up for your Barbara. It has definitely you. Do you think that's the template for what he does decades later. Yes I do. And that's what's so chilling to me about the the whole thing because in the millennium he'll make he'll make art into reality. You can hear the echoes of this. You're already beginning to see the lack of conscience. It's in his interview with the Georgia. Bureau of Investigation. Hilton put forth a grandiose sense of himself a renaissance man of many hats on builder and minority. Hours my heart is my lie and my art. If we're these kind of a philosopher lawsuit king isn't he. I'm an artist and you poor dumb cops don't have the luxury of being able to think the big cosmic thoughts that I do. He almost feel sorry for them. That they can't keep keep up with him when he starts going about this. That and the other thing hoping for crumbs of clues in those other open cases murders in the national forests the agents. I wanted to keep Hilton talking where you where did all of these days. I know what you're getting out of the unsolved murders. Gary Hilton. Thinks he's smart. He Gary has an I q of One hundred twenty and that's considered to be way above average or even though they mainly eligible origin. Is that I alone up. Donald anyone including you do have to actually started. He'll rattle on as long to someone. Listen to him on any topic under the Sun. Virtually yes pick a topic any topic. How about vulcanology a donkey? No the superbowl kaneohe under yellow. Seventy people volcano when eruption basically wind it become the the Holy See more of the US under several bash and destroy the air. The fast talking Flimflam man was on display display. Hilton's home videos found in his band. Here's Hilton giving a cop. That stopped him some live. You tell me what you're the law man. You are the law. I'm going to check it out and if that ain't the law and you're wrong I'm not talking to nobody. I'm falling and I'm suing because you're interrupting my work. You hear Gary Bragging about how smart Mardi is how well He. He does his job but at the same time. What you hear is an incredible narcissistic personality? Which is typical of serial killers killers? He sets up the camera. And there's Gary going hundred seventy-one pounds starts pumping up his biceps. Like he's Arnold Schwarzenegger. I mean he's very narcissistic. So why word. Detectives Enduring Hilton self-centered ramblings clearly. They were hoping he'd blurred out something about his involvement in the other unsolved cases in the national forests but Hilton was admitting to nothing. You basically telling me that you know Twain Nine Ninety he escaped the death penalty in Georgia. But despite his denials Al's Hilton remains the prime suspect in the murder of that elderly couple Irene and John Bryant. Mr Brian's remains had been found in January in the North Carolina align forest as a result of the investigation in Georgia. I was absolutely convinced at that. Point that Gary Hilton was our suspect but there was another open homicide case that seemed to fit Gary Hilton. Like a custom made suit down in Florida. The body of Cheryl Dunlap had been found in a national forest her. ATM card stole the remains decapitating. Detectives thought that Fit Hilton's M. O.. Two T and Gary Hill still applying. The smartest kid in the class defied Florida to come after all that time. All that money they spend A million dollars uncleaner independent there may and then Then another two million get there and then another eight million to the death penalty and get around and get around to executing seventeen years from now when a seventy eight years old decrepit anything. They too tough Laura. Prosecutors at turned out would be the match of his defiant Tong. My belief is this is an evil bad person in there ought to be a consequence in life to evil acts. Coming up justice for Cheryl the hunt for evidence begins. She took the floors up the seats out. She dismantled that Van Suspected serial killer Gary Helton had already pleaded guilty to the murder of Meredith Emerson in the Georgia mountains but he cheated the executioner there with a plea deal that that led police to his victim's body to the south authorities in Florida were convinced he had murdered. Nurse and mother Cheryl Dunlap who's partial remains have been recovered. Two weeks before Meredith Emerson went missing Hilton was defying the authorities in Florida to make charges stick. been a million dollars. The man then Then another billion to get death Leon County Florida. State's attorney Willie megs had had heard enough and indicted Hilton for the murder of Cheryl dunlap. Willie he's gone away for life he's going to be leaving Georgia corrections in a pine box. Why does Florida even need to to go to the expense of a capital murder trial? My belief is is. This is an evil bad person and there ought to be a consequence in alive to evil acts. I don't think murderers ought to be cheaper. The more you do with the Dunlap case looking like a carbon copy of the Meredith Emerson Murder Order you might think the case would be Gimme for the prosecutors. But far from it they would not be allowed to introduce Hilton conviction in the Emerson murder despite its similarity Cheryl's nor his connection with horror movie deadly run or the fact that he was the prime suspect in the murders of two elderly hikers in North Carolina. Florida Florida Department of Law Enforcement Special Agent. Any White was part of the team charged with making the case months earlier the cops had developed a partial chronology for Cheryl dunlap dunlap. While the Saturday she back we started receiving calls. People saying we saw our Walmart we seller here. And so we started backtrack those just trying to get the time on. The investigators knew that Cheryl's morning had included some shopping in Tallahassee cashing a check at the bank and using a library computer to send some e mail to her son in the army they even had a last site. Witnesses identified Cheryl as the woman peacefully reading book here at a Popular Spot called Leon sinks in in the national forest the couple that I interviewed that saw her there at the sink. Holes was very adamant that that was her but the trial had gone cold at the Tallahassee the ATM or a disguised man had withdrawn money using Dunlop's bankcards. A month after Cheryl went the be on the lookout for Gary Hilton during the Meredith Emerson. Listen investigation had the phones in Florida lighting up again when he started hitting the news media are citizens here started seeing him and immediately recognized him and started calling and that tip line Catholic one caller remembered an odd guy with a handsome red dawn. That site led investigators go down another national forest path and to another discovering more remains positive. It was Mr Hilton described. The Dog The van and So that was one of the camps where the bones were found deep in the national forest. Five miles from where Cheryl dunlap's torso had been and found. Investigators came upon a charred piece of skull the Bony Fragments of human hand in the ashes of a campfire. They were badly burned camp firepit kind of thing he'd actually done a pretty good job of covering it up as well. It covered it with strong measures to to tidy trax. The fire had. I've been so thorough. It was impossible to extract DNA from the bones. Whoever killed Cheryl Dunlop had gone to extraordinary lengths to eliminate any physical evidence? So you think that this is someone trying to conceal the identity chills must have gone up your spine when you heard the details of what had happened to yes meredith. And how closely match Cheryl yes. Yes sir both taken out of the woods abducted her. Both decapitated assist. You know early similar. There was one thing about tracking the guy with the red dog that they had going doing for them. States assistant prosecutor Georgia Koppelman. Fortunately for the investigation. If somebody saw Gary Michael Hilton they remembered him. He's Scott that kind of a face or presence that you don't forget once we had the description. We had tons of witnesses coming forward while doing the legwork that was turning up more witnesses says putting Hilton in the area aging white screened deadly run the horror thriller about tracking down and killing women. The forest that Gary Hilton had worked on years before there are scenes that you see in the movie that were reenacted in his actual spree of crimes not in every detail but there's definitely a lot of similarities and investigators has had those home videos of Hilton to screen as well last time he was gone he that was out here. I don't think here. Let's followed you now. Watching the videos was very Educational because I saw him by himself. I saw him with other people. People like this restaurant manager suffering a ramp from Hilton about his delivery Uber. Drivers you tell these guys with terror driving. Has He received any driving safety education. I saw him With law enforcement in many different sides leaving I'm getting Outta here. God Almighty thought he was the smartest bear in the woods. Definitely smarter than the officers. Apprehending definitely definitely they now had numerous Hilton sightings around where Cheryl dunlap vanished but despite all the investigative work by multiple sheriff's offices and the FDLE. No witness came forward to put him together with Gerald on the nurses remains were in such poor condition they told investigators nothing about how how she died. But the thousands of other pieces in the puzzle. Investigators were trying to song. Hilton's Van Jammed to the roof. With hundreds of items was trucked worked the Florida Department of Law Enforcement Crime Lab our crime scene analyst spent day and night literally weeks a mess. Right she she lived in that van for weeks. She dismantled that van. Every item that was in it was taken out And then the van itself was dismantled. She took the floors up the the headline or out the seats out every scrap of paper every piece of hair. All that evidence from the van was added to items recovered from the dumpster route side Atlanta where Hilton had been captured. A Georgia cop on blood mountain with a metal detector had found the Bayonet Meredith Emerson had wrestled away from Gary Hilton now. Now investigators in Florida theory. What was interesting about that? Knife is before we knew of Mr Hilton before he had killed Miss Emerson and been quite our analysts in our lab showed us. This is the style this what the knife is GonNa look on cameras and memory cards were found inside the van the techie detectives in the FDLE computer lab working overtime trying to unscramble deleted material from the evidence and deepen in their DNA lab more than seven hundred samples. Were being analysed in an attempt to find some link between Gary Hilton. And the late Cheryl Dunlap had Gary Hilton can manage to outsmart them all wood floor to be able to make the case against four years after Cheryl dunlap's death it was finally going to try coming up sweaty and your heart. Speeding dramatic case begins. How would it? You can just see the jurors so there is a new. When Dateline Continues Gary Hilton's trial for the Florida Murderer Cheryl dunlap began in February? Two thousand eleven a little more than four. We're years after he pleaded and skated the death penalty in Georgia. But there was no chance of a plea deal in this tallahassee. He might be doing life in Georgia but this. This was a capital murder case. If convicted Hilton could die. I- lethal injection remember lead prosecutor Georgia. Koppelman couldn't tell the jury about Hilton's conviction in the Meredith Emerson murder or mentioned it was the prime suspect in North Carolina. Double Homicide Nortel the jury anything about that Slasher laforest movie deadly run. That he helped me MS dunlap found herself in a situation and ultimately came to to an end. That is something that we only think about nightmares. The state built the brick and masonry of story on the time line investigators had so painstakingly painstakingly assembled an attorney hiking with her husband in the national forest. Leon sinks that Saturday morning remembered seeing Cheryl. I looked at her and I said it's peaceful as full out here isn't it and she looked at me and she nodded and she smiled and then she exited warlock then a parade of witnesses testified to seeing Hilton out and about out in the national forest. There was the motorists to notice demand near Cheryl's car with a flat tire. How confident are you that Mr Hilton was the man that you saw at that vehicle? Oh very confident. Others remembered dent man's good looking reddish. retriever mix states. The picture of Hilton's Dog Dandy Exhibit thirty-seven was looking to be the state's key piece of evidence quite sure that's the dog. Another witness recounted a creepy conversation with Hilton country store. And then he said it. Isn't that bad about that. Girl that was murdered an asset. Yes it is he said well you look like her and I said well I don't think so hunters to identified the old guy with the Nice doll ruler flagging his emergency yourself. What the prosecution couldn't tell? The jury was exactly how Cheryl had a county medical examiner had to work with severed remains that had been exposed to the elements. He thought for at least a week or more. Are you able to tell this jury how this woman died died November not a cause of death but what the prosecution did have was forensic evidence Galore hundreds of items recovered from his van from Hilton suspected campsites deep in the woods of two items here duct tape with hair and another piece of duct tape Or masking tape. Prepare one of the items crime scene. Techs recovered was Hilton's video camera. He tried to delete the images on. It are unable to see the entire device. So I'm able to recover those previously as lead files department of law enforcement lab experts had been able to salvage the Audio Hilton did not want the world to hear and with good reason. This is Gary Hilton. Two days after Cheryl dunlap's disappearance singing into the camera microphone and gassing with his dog. Dan Dan mm-hmm when it sounded as though he was confessing to the dog. A hushed courtroom listened to Hilton's is model. The Bar I gotta go the states. Forensic people introduced evidence about Cheryl slash tire a tool mark. Experts said the bayonet recovered on blood mountain up in Georgia was an exact match for the sharp object that caused the puncture down in Florida. But the state say good night evidence was without question the DNA work genetic expert. Joe Ellen Brown spent two years testing more than seven hundred and fifty pieces of evidence in the case Brown told the jury she was able to match Cheryl dunlap's DNA. Hey To blood on two of Hilton sleeping bags and on the shoelaces of his hiking boots. The major donor does match share on the frequency of occurrence. So this major contributor Dini profile is one in twenty nine Quadrille in Cook Asians twenty nine with how many's yours fifteen zeros and with that after six days of testimony the prosecution rested now. The defense holding a very poor hand would have to a fight for Gary Hilton's life it's case was brief. Lead attorney says Super Cold One witness an expert on to mark identification who testified by videotape. Arguing that the bayonet and evidence could not in her opinion be determined to be what had been used to slash victims tire subjective. Yeah it's based on the Individual Examiners training inexperience. He defense was trying to impeach the testimony of the State's expert. Who you said Hilton's bayonet had slash Cheryl dunlap's tire and that was it for the defense? Gary Hilton declined to take the stand. Do you wish to testify one. In sixty three million. In her closing argument the prosecutor reminded the jury of those big number DNA matches. What are the odds that somebody else's DNA is on that sleeping bag? Other than Cheryl dunlap won an eleven trillion Caucasians. I need Subaru's closed for the the defense was far more vigorous than her limited witness list might have suggested we have absolutely no evidence not direct evidence. The Mr Hilton come in murder. The jurors began their deliberations Koppelman and her boss waited for them to return there. You've done a lot of trials. Is this just another day at the office. No no it's never when you're waiting for a verdict or palms are sweaty and your Heart's beaten and you're very nervous Harris and I can tell you I've been doing thirty five years now. It's never gone away from me. There's this It really liked. Throw a while. You're waiting on them to do you until you hear it read. It's it is tents coming up. What would they decide with? The jury found his. This follows the Virgin A. Hey it's Craz you know. Sometimes it's good to just take a step back back from the day to day onslaught of news and take our broader. Look the issues. That's what I'm doing each week on my podcast. Why is this happening? Were exploring topics ranging from school segregation. The climate change. Well the way that I think it is. Climate Change will be to the twenty first century. What modernity west of the nineteenth century it'll be the central subject of questions about economic justice us? Everything that you care about in the world will be affected by climate and digging deep with guests uniquely qualified to analyze issues from mass incarceration to race relations. As you know for the first time in our our history at the national level whites are on the verge of losing their majority status in twenty years and I think it's no coincidence that our politics are getting more tribal. Join me for why. Why is this happening? New episodes every Tuesday. Wherever you get your podcasts the trial of Gary Hilt for the murder of Cheryl Dunloy had taken seven days? The six-man six woman jury needed less than three and a half hours to reach its verdict on multiple counts state of Florida versus Gary. Michael Hilton we the jury find as follows as to count one of the indictment. The defendant offended Gary Hilton is guilty of first degree murder count. Two of them Diary Hilton was found. Guilty of first degree murder of Cheryl dunlap guilty on all counts except car theft. The same jurors would soon reconvene to decide if Hilton would die by lethal injection. He dodged death and George and now it was time to see if he could do it again. You might think that capital punishment but Florida's active death row would have been a given Gary Hilton but not so says Tallahassee Democrat Democrats senior writer Jennifer Portman and Leon County. We had not even sent anyone to death row in twenty years. So it's not a foregone conclusion that this is going to be hanging jury absolutely absolutely not. We've had our share of horrendous crimes. Don't get me wrong but the jurors here are just very uneasy about sending people to death. Row this man Mr Hilton Assistant. State's attorney Georgia Koppelman got the initial conviction of Hilton. What are the words used to describe this guy? He's a psychopath. And you know there's crazy sick and there's crazy mean he's just crazy mean. He's intelligence a college graduate. He was a member of our armed forces. He's probably smarter than everybody sitting in this room. There were different rules in this. The penalty phase unlike in the trial prosecutors were now now able to disclose to jurors that Hilton murdered Meredith Emerson on Blood Mountain and state's attorney Willie megs did just that calling to the stand Georgia Bureau of Investigation allegation agents. Who'd worked on the Emerson case? You indicated that Ms Nelson Body was nude Did Gary Michael Hilton. Tell you why it was. I knew he did he. He basically stated that he had Removed the head and stripped the clothing for forensic purposes makes was able cool to introduce portions of those chilling interviews. That Hilton gave the authorities in Georgia in pain. You're GONNA kill them. You don't think phase was one of the more interesting parts of the trial. That's where you started getting this information about Emerson Emerson because I I saw Georgia information was allowed into the correct. So that is when you really start seeing the jurors taking in the enormity then you really see the impact of all this coming coming through Robert. Freedman was the defenses lead attorney in the penalty phase. His strategy was to present Hilton as so mentally damaged as to be incapable of responsibility for his actions. Friedman began with a pet scan expert who testified about traumatic brain damage Hilton. It suffered as a ten year old. When Murphy bed accidentally fell on him a nearly scalped him he was taken to Saint Joseph Hospital on campaign given two hundred stitches? And this is an example of Murphy perfect bad and jurors. That's not all the defense's expert continued. Hilton was abused as a child and he lashed out as a teenager. The doctor testified that Hilton was so diluted that he believed he had worked on a movie about killing women in the forest. That of course was a slip up. Hilton had done just that and the defense error opened the door for the prosecution to tell the story about the movie deadly run or would that be delusional. If it's the truth I know a defense neuropsychologist tested Hilton to it. Turns out is as bright as he thinks he is. The wechsler intelligence scale. He scored an overall overall verbal. I Q of One hundred twenty which puts them in the upper ten percent or so of the population another psychiatrist diagnosed him with Schizo affective and antisocial personality disorder compounded by an old fashioned edible complex. We call it an unresolved oedipus complex and a child can grow up with this emptiness inside of them to top it off. The defense continued Hilton was self medicating with prescription drugs. Ritalin and effectual axel basically push you over that line. The defense then treated jurors to Gary Hilton. This is your life a saga of abuse neglect and injury it included an audiotape. Hilton's late mother talking about how as a teenager Hilton had wounded his stepfather and he said Chevy shipping the camera shot in the legs or in the stomach lower part of his junior high girlfriend testified that Gary it wasn't a bad guy back in the day. He was funny and outgoing and smart. The defense rash once the defense rested Willie megs called his rebuttal. Witness a a clinical psychologist to revisit the essential issues the mystery Hilton. Did he know right from wrong. My opinion is that yes. He clearly knew right from wrong and clearly he knew the criminal nature of his conduct in my opinion is that he is a psychopath. And that's that's what generated the murders and nothing else the attorneys. He's made their final appeal to the jurors. I'm going to ask everyone of you individually to go back in that jury room and vote to recommend end the Gary Hilton be put today on behalf of Mr Hilton. I'm asking all of you collectively and individually to recommend a life sentence in this case the jurors then retired to deliberate nothing less than whether Gary Hilton should live or die. Hi coming up another haunting question. Were there more victims out in the forest personally believed there and Dan a legacy. She's really the hero. It was through her efforts that we were able to catch her killer remembering meredith. Hope Amerson When dateline continues the same jurors who found Gary Hilton guilty of murdering Cheryl dunlap? We're now trying to decide if they should recommend Hilton. Spend life keep in prison or be put to death by lethal injection. Their life or death debate lasted an hour and twenty minutes of majority of the jury by a vote of twelve to nothing. Advise recommend to the court as the death penalty on Gary. Michael Hilton Hilton Sat expressionless as the results were read and where two weeks later and equally emotionless Hilton listened as the judge pronounced his sentence. Is that you gary. Michael Hilton contest to death. For the murder Cheryl dunlap Meta God. Have mercy on your soul. Gary Michael Hilton was sent to Florida's death row for the murder of Cheryl dumb three months later he was shackled and transported to western North Carolina and indicted in federal court there for the murders of John and Irene Arena Bryant the government alleged. The serial killer murdered the elderly couple in October of two thousand seven shortly before killing Cheryl Dunlap and Meredith Emerson. James Hilton pleaded not guilty. The forensic team from Florida that helped convict there was all set to testify in the federal trial. And all that evidence stored in the FDLE's basement just across the hall from the Boxes Containing Evidence Against Florida's more infamous serial killer. Ted Bundy was ready to get truck. Milk Hilton was facing another death sentence in the federal trial and David Mahoney. The local. Sheriff was certain jury would provide justice for the. Bryant's we have a good case Tremendous number of man hours spent an investigation tremendous cooperation between all of the local state and federal agencies as it were involved in all three states but a trial wouldn't be necessary in March two thousand Twelve Hilton pleaded guilty to killing John and Irene Bryant and got another another life sentence. Law enforcement officials from across the South East have met with golden on Florida's death row attempting to find out how many more of his victims might be out there. You think there are others. I think they're certainly the potential to be others. I don't know that we'll ever know for sure. And unless he tells us so. Far Hilton is sticking to his store. That and he started hunting as he describes it in October of two thousand seven that there were no murders before them like most of the other officers who've investigated Helton mm-hmm agent. Any white isn't buying. She says they have a lot of work ahead. Is it your belief Anne that there are more out there more victims of Gary Hilton. I personally believe there. Aw He's just been to many places so it just makes me think that there's probably more we're going to continue to look at every case that we can compare profiles and look for evidence the pain and suffering of the families of Hilton's victims and suspected victims dolls but never ends. He's taken so much for me and my family really. What can you say to someone who had murdered two wonderful people for three hundred dollars and Meredith Komo beautiful young lady Cheryl Dunlop and and very possibly many more. The man is not even what I think of is human. He is something else a true psychopath who needs to be put where he can never harm anyone else again for Shirl Dunlap's friends and family and Florida Hilton's conviction provoked conflicting feelings and I think believe it. No not that Cheryl would want us to forgive and when I went into the courtroom and I actually saw him. My thought was not that They put him to death or so that I was glad he was off the street. But I have to forgive Gary Hilton. I I have to be in the family. It was a death penalty case and the jury recommended the death penalty and that was the sentence. Does it matter to you clearer. Pleased with the outcome. Yes and like Laura said he's off the streets He's not hurt anyone again Yes I think it matters and there are regrets on the part of the officers who investigated the Hilton cases. Could there have been one tip line that come in sooner. Could've been one fragment information we could have put together more quickly and spared her. That hasn't been a day go by since I haven't thought about mad at them or so and what we could've should've done differently but see. She's really the hero she did the best. She could in hopes that we could catch up. It was through her efforts that we were able to catch her killer but also the killer. That was responsible for the killing of Sheldon. You're in Georgia for Meredith Emerson's closest friends. It's time to forget about Gary Hilton and remember her. He took our friend. He took a daughter a sister but he can't take her memory. He can't take the things we love about her away us. The important didn't work to be done. We started an organization in her memory. Julia Karen Bow or Meredith. Emerson's one time roommate. Georgia has founded along with others. Something called old right to hike advocating hiker safety. We didn't want anybody to go through this again. Either to bring awareness of what happened and how it happened and maybe make you think about going hiking by yourself twice. Take a friend you know to to be a little safer. The organization founded by Meredith. Emerson's friends has sponsored offense with a huge turnout of people and dogs. Meredith's dog Ella went to live with her parents in Colorado any event that we ever have for a hike just seen people come and say I never met Meredith but I feel like I know her and I wanted to come out and support and that was the biggest thing the community outreach after everything a happened right to hike aided humane societies educated hikers on safe practices and put Cell Towers on trail heads. One of the big things things that we realized very quickly on these trails that our cell phones didn't work and Meredith. Had Her cell phone with her and that didn't help her ever hike blood mountain. You just might notice a little sticker there as you head out. Remember me and the Meredith Emerson she most of all would like you to enjoy your day in the outdoors. Talk just really enjoyed being out with nature and watching a run through the forest and play with other dogs. I think it was a really peaceful a place for her to be people. Go to these places to relax and get away from everyday life and enjoy the outdoors and then they should continue to do that. These are some of the safest safest places there until the monster shows up. Yeah Gary Hilton has been on death row since April two thousand eleven. His appeals continue. You the average stay on Florida's death row is twelve and a half years. And that's all for this edition of Dateline. We'll see you again next Friday at nine eight central and of course I'll see you each weeknight for N._B._C.. Nightly news I'm Lester Holt for all of us at N._B._C.. News good night.
#hottakeoftheday podcast Episode 59 w/Bud Isaacs
"Entirely Glenn we're trying the new weird in person. We're GONNA, sink all this. Like my clap. So. Here we go. What is going on hot take nation it is the are W here and. We've now done about sixty one episodes of this. We used to do them in person video. Then we moved to video because zoom and this is the first in person interview that we've done during coronavirus, and I'm very very excited about this episode I am joined by Bud Isaacs who I met I don't know if you know if he remembers I met him about eight years ago through some Chad. When I started my entrepreneurial journey and all gas and we reconnected last week and you know what the conversation was so good I wanted to record it and share with everybody. So bud welcome to the show. Thank you. I don't even know where to start because we have your painting on the wall we have your book and water we have. Military badges from Vietnam, we have horse accidents and we have an entire career that we can go with. So I guess I, WanNa start with Let's go with nine, hundred, eighty five. If I remember you were Petro Lewis Timeframe beginning of your career middle your career said by the time. Yeah my career started. Back, when I was in college I rough necked. Out in the Grizzly yes. Fields and down offshore and the Anna. So. It really goes back further because I sat my dad's coupe and. Kalinka California when I was six years old and he was showing me what happens when you can blow out a string of drill pipe And there was spaghetti everywhere so. My familiarization with the. Oil and gas industry. Is Through my father who was a petroleum engineer for Chevron for forty two years and we lived in oil camps all over the world. So interesting, you mentioned Chevron Today Chevron came out announced is one of the first deals I mean certainly I deal since corona virus that they're going to buy noble. I think we talked about it that your shareholder and Chevron tight me about. The differences like you you were a young man young boy, your father worked for Chevron. You've seen Chevron all this time and you've seen the growth in ESPN. We've seen the anti fossil fuel movement. You've seen everything really right from the beginning. Well, how would you describe if were to summarize the last fifty years about how different it is for a company like Chevron from your initial memories of them to now Most Chevron was company that when you went to work for you died in that position they you know your home was there. And Living Oil camps we were. Primarily out in the field, those camps were and including in. Kalinga and taft which are. Really in the I would say a whole of the world because temperatures there would get two, hundred twenty and it's nothing but oil and gas. and. Have to memories go all the way back. We also had a third faucet which was potable water because he couldn't drink the water that came out of the TAP. And As a child. Hell I couldn't. Go to sleep without hearing one wonders pumping in the background. So, it was a very very. Interesting Wonderful Life that that led me finally to go to Colorado School of Mines and get follow what my dad did is become a petroleum engineer And as I mentioned earlier today, I look back at mines and I would prefer to have gone back to Vietnam and have to go through minds again because it was so tough intellectually on me and I'm not a very. I'm not a very smart person. I'm just practical person. So thing I think about you being six and having the experience of understanding what by blowing out on a regular and I. Think most parents have today would have a six year old and their six year old is so coddled and so protected, and so isolated from the things that you were a kid, do you have any memories sort of freedom and learning the world and learning the ropes of when you were eight or nine? No doubt running running wild cat let's put it this way. GRANDPA, gave me a twenty two and I was nine years old. And all I had to do since we're an oil camps and there was nobody that I could destroy. Or anything that I could destroy I all I do is call my dad and I could go out and plink. As long as I had the money to buy the shelves and so we learned very early and really. What I think is the start of my. Formation, to what I am today. was. We went to Jakarta was twelve years old I went to a British school. Got Caned twice because I didn't learn my lessons which taught me lesson one learn your lessons. Then when we moved to run by Sumatra which was in the middle of the jungle. Again. I had a machete. And My folks. Let me take off into the jungle and chop trees and. Collect, tropical, fish and We even had a pet cub tiger, my dad shot the man man eating tiger that had killed some people in one of the camps and. Dad was in a position that he had the two guns that the camp was allowed. So I shot my first wild-boar when I was twelfth. and. So that's always been a part of my life is that adventure and and? The education, you get a resent A. Calvert system where we had one teacher teaching, K. through eighth grade. Then when I got through eighth grade. I went to. Episcopal School and the Philippines. Called Brent and A. Again the episcopal fathers were very strict disciplinarians and so I think I learned that discipline there my dad was also commander in the navy. Prior to US going. there. And so. His parents. Ran The Salvation Army mission in San Francisco. So they were very. Humble people. And I learned that lesson from him, and then from my grandfather who was an eighth grade. Educated plummer in San Francisco. How My Cup has always been half full. I mean even when I went to Vietnam and who really lived under a shelter half. For I was, they're thirteen months and maybe twelve of those was. Out really under. Shelter half. On the ground. and. I was a survivalist and I had. Blown up, you'd say nowadays I, D, in those days, we call the minds we miss the mine. Has Back in a truck cup and gloomy across the took out both. eardrums and henceforth I, wear hearing aids and don't hear very well. So what will you living overseas and old? Were you when you I guess were you drafted into the war? No. We were over there. I came back as a sophomore in high school. Living with my uncle who was dean of engineering at City College Seven. Cisco. Then my dad got transferred back to New York and I finished up high school in Greenwich Connecticut. I wanted. To. Get. Back. West. I'd never been to Colorado never been to Colorado school mines I applied and got accepted in. Sometimes I've wondered. What I've really gotten into because it's a tough school when it's a tough school today and I'm on the Board of governors there. And we WANNA keep it that way we want to provide a product. For Industry or not. So interested in. Learning, how to? twiddle your thumbs as much as we are. And We're in the. Business just like anybody else's we want to have a product that people want and so we want our graduates. To be demanded by Industry and they command some of the best salaries in the country. So so you had graduated fully from Colorado School mines before gone over to them no I went to Colorado school mines was in ROTC. Okay. And so at that time in ROTC. We were allowed to work for a year before we had to go back to the engineering basic course. And Become A full-fledged lieutenant second. Lieutenant. and. So when I got and that's where I met my wife of fifty three years. was, seventeen I might add and I had already graduated from college worked for a year and she was just a youngster. But it's worked out. Fifty three years would says the fifty years we're proud of that. And so. When I was down Fort Bragg with St- doing. Nothing really biding my time for my commitment. Vietnam. Started and they were asking for volunteers. So volunteered to go to Vietnam because I could get jumped pay because I'm Mayer born I go get combat pay. and. Regular pay. So it was a rate, almost double, my two hundred and something dollars a month salary. And I said why not I mean if I'm going to be here might as well do it. And? It turned out they needed an officer with one hundred and first engineering officer and I happened to be in the. REPCO depot, they called it where you came into the country and they moved me up there instead of with the outfit I originally been assigned to. And my six day with the unit whose when I got blown up. And I was only out for ten days. It was just like an shot with buckshot because those days they just used bamboo and TNT basically, and we missed stat line when we were opening highway one and it caught my. My dump truck and My dump truck driver me. All. were. Wounded and back. But who in-country Medevac and so I was there ten days later. and. On that same highway. I think my first day out maybe my second day out we came under fire and I had A. Regular jeep with a radio on the back of it. And incoming around took out the tire and missed my knee by about two inches and so. I knew what I was there for can. Take no prisoners I would say. which led to what I showed you earlier that we were very. It was a beep fifty to read. Most people won't remember the lonesome from West Point Carpenter was his name captain. Carpenter he got in a valley in got in a cross fire and left. I don't know. Four, or five. Missing in Action Kia's behind. So my mission was to go in the what they did find was a regimental headquarters and. We were helicoptered in with ammonium nitrate chargers to implode those. Tunnel complexes we couldn't get into him because the gas that it had be fifty two raids so. In the. Thick of that. We saw. A valley that was not being looked at by the hundred by the infantry. And we got permission to go down and we ended up capturing six uniform north. Vietnamese one of a higher rank than mine, which was considered quite a big deal at that time. And for that, I got highly decorated and. I saw the metals and and I was just thinking back to when I was I mean you must have been twenty, twenty two. How old were you at the time? I'll be seventy nine next month at how old were you then when you were in Vietnam math wise. Fifty years. Twenty two, twenty, three somebody and I think what? I was doing it twenty two and twenty three and having gone through school and then go over there and on day six you're your bombed I mean get an like effectively. Action for ten days and then just that. And then and then you hear a and this is no disrespect to the millennials of today but but this these protests and and like how troubling things are today and yet you think about what you were facing coming out of college and just how different life was and and the you're waking up every day like literally fighting for life and death and. It goes beyond that because. I'm married the general's daughter after I got out of service. My Dad was commander in World War. Two in our family. We have eleven and a half years in Vietnam. All of. All of us are. Sound of mine nobody on drugs and pretty successful and So I have a low tolerance. For what we're seeing now. And for the victimhood. That everybody wants to. either. Be categorized as a victim or claim to be a victim. Because I, think. You know. Though diller rights means that were all given. Know we all have the same opportunity, but it's up to you to take advantage of the opportunity and. I know too many people that came from nothing both black white, yellow and green. And they have risen. To levels that are just very successful matter of fact, I have Endowed Scholarship Colorado School Mines for anybody that's veteran. When the GI bill money runs out then they go on my scholarship and. I've always believed in helping those that can get out of the fray. And need a little hand up to get over the top and I've put a couple of illegals Colorado school mines that have done that. and. It's just. It's pretty thin at the top. The trial gets very narrow at the peak. and. Some. Are another the country today Wants to give more empathy those in the bottom tier than the guys that have struggled through it. made it. So my effort and support is for helping the people that need that other hand up. So when you came back from, but before we leave you nominee, is there a story? And I know when when we were chatting last week, one of the things that really struck me was how optimistic you are like you're half a glass half full like. Earn et Cetera there must have been a time when you were feeling depressed or sad or questioning your life choices in Vietnam or do nothing. Yeah I would say the only time was when I had to look at the board after we took. A fight cam or a doubly. With Quiz O. Physically. All the stuff in school would they put post your score on? The board just to a number. So not everybody knew but I could normally find mine because it was pretty much at the bottom core tile in the talk and. That to me, there's I've mentioned before. was maybe the toughest thing. Is I. Knew I had to survive I. mean there was no alternative. Because my dad was one who said, don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out. And while there was always a support system there that was pretty much understood and. I think. Where I was going. I do get bifurcated when I tell stories, but we're always going by. When I was a freshman in high school I did not see my folks for twelve months when I went away to school in the Philippines because in those days, you didn't fly back and forth. So I became independent pretty early I had an older brother that paved the way but. That probably has established. Why I'm as independent as I am now, I just learned that. You got to depend on yourself he can't depend on. You depend on the people that work for you and you respect and you're always going to be in the service business you're always going to serve. Either a greater God or a greater employer. And it was drummed in me very early. That the better I'm that Guy I'm serving look the better off all. Because he'll carry along so To this day I don't mind. You know. Basically if We had a big tree go down in our yard. I was out there buck and brush and cut met and throw it into the chipper. You know that just me that's the way I like to do it. So you got back from Vietnam and you weren't married to your wife at the time. No but I was struck me when I got back. They goes out of a plane load of three hundred fifty guys came back from Vietnam when I came back in the war was still on but we. Derive, Stout She was the only round i. Met The plane. and. What that I mean we'd been in the age of so. You know it was pretty nice to see this blog. Hazel died. And everybody on that plane one of that. GonNa take this one. So. So you got married and. You have three children have. Three children. Our daughter, who is fifty? Has Three daughters, and they're moving back the town. and. Our middle son was adopted because we went five years without any luck in then. Chad whom you know was born seven years to the day after my daughter was born. So thinking about the lessons you learn from your parents and the lessons that you've learned at Colorado School Mines and then in Vietnam and thinking about the way you raise your children either in the same way that your parents that are different. What what were some things will philosophies that you had as a as a parent? You'd have to ask my wife more than me because I was working. And You mentioned eighty five I'll go back a little further I came up here after working for. Chevron for one year before I went to Vietnam then working for union oil when I came back because union. I wanted to get as far away from the Orient as I could. So they promised me that I could go to Alaska. So I worked six months in. Santa Fe, Springs California, and the oil patch. They're the old oil patch than I went up to Alaska for four years. and. That may have been my toughest decision. Was To leave Alaska. I'm a hunter and fisherman and outdoorsman, and it's a paradise for sure then it was. And although my wife on the other hand wanted to get back to the world. And so. What was the question again I I was I was certainly in terms of the learnings that you had is as a in you're talking with the kid by working all the time and that's my memory of my father and my my wife's father we always working all the time. We. Started early camping. When we were in West Texas I bought a interest in a little. Ranch down on a ranch and a little. Motel ish place on the river down southern Colorado used to drive up. We took the kids from the very get go out tent camping hiking. Soon as they were old enough to hold a weapon I had them shooting. Justice last Christmas. And Durham North Carolina we took all three girls, their mother and my wife, and I went to shooting range. And they had the time of their life, you know people. Have always been around. Guns so it's natural for me. Just I'll give you the conversation earlier today with the Cherry. Hills police because we've got coyotes again in our neighborhood. And police officers central. Why don't you shoot them I said because they're not giving me a target. So. It I've always loved and. We all have. Our avocation, but we all have our. What is it? I'm missing the word but What we WANNA do and I've been very involved always in the environment and and this is pushed me to the project. We talked about earlier on Upper Colorado River which I which I really. WanNa. Talk about because. I, think it ties. I mean you have a book that's called water and you had a whole career and oil and the environmental. So natural but also the the the outdoorsman ship in the the stewardship of the environment is so integral to everything did growing up but also as an oil person also has a water person also has an environmental person I could say it's all tied together. Well. People don't. Appreciate. What it means to be born and North America. Having lived. where? On. We'd flush the toilet. You could watch it go down the drain and our house where they're open sores. And Jakarta back in Nineteen fifty-six. Coca Cola came in a big can that you took jigger a coke and a soda water that. Put in a cartridge to. Get Your Coca Cola. So I think. I've had a unique experience and living and bean I the minority. In Jakarta, there were bid just purged all Dutch. So there are no Europeans. There were just the embassy personnel for. The British embassy and for the Americans, those are the ones I knew I didn't know about other ones but. I learned to fights I learned to play with the guys in the street I used to ride my bicycle. Out Six miles from my house to the only guy that I really was close English speaking friend. But I learned to speak Indonesian at the time and survive. You know you just arrived. So I have really. I've tried to give that to my kids I've tried to say that. What you needed a on as your own. Skills Your own attitude to life and and we've been really blessed with Three. Successful our call. Children. And Our daughters coming back to town with three daughters. One's getting her masters north. Carolina in public health, she'll go on to be a doctor like. Both her mother and her father are. And then the other ones at Dartmouth. And the other one we're very proud of the other granddaughter just made the Southern All American Lacrosse team. So she's Still out there because they have turn among of all the all American. Picks and it's really a college thing. It is you talked about your upbringing and all the experiences you had, and then the teachings the you gave your kids and and then your kids were successful and then by by the bike's engine, your grandkids have. All followed that template and there's always a saying I remember and I remember when I first heard it but it's the first generation makes the money. The second generation keeps the money in the third generation blows money but you really are principal and focus so much on giving back to the community and earning things with your own hands and you you've really build it three generations of of workers and people contribute I mean. What advice would you give parents who are looking at their kids now and saying man, what can I do to be better advice I would give. Discipline. Education. And find. Which love to do. And if you can marry him. I've always been a hunter or fisherman. So, being in charge of acquisitions for Petra Louis, when I had infinite money to spend at that time to buy properties was no different. than looking at a river. Scene a fish that's feeding and try and figure out how can I get him So that's always been my. What's motivated me? and. We're very fortunate. That our daughter married a Canadian. Who is the top one of the top hand surgeons in the country he'll become back to he's back in Denver heading up the hand surgery for. and shoots. And I really think it's the parents. More than the grandparents. It raised the kids. Thought as long as we're live and the grandparents can associate with us. Even though they don't all agree with. My Conservative knows? They all think and the the one thing I tell all my college and and The youngsters we've still got Chad as eleven year old and a nine year old soon to be. Is You know you gotTa have respect. For Your elders. You GotTa do the best you can at whatever you do. But. You GotTa have some discipline and I see too many of our friends and kids around us that. Really. Haven't had that and then they. They don't set their own template, their own goals I mean I was big in the boy scouts here I was council commissioner for number years. Put On camp out here and The beauty of the boy scouts is they establish goals magnetic from the time you're a cubs scout you've got. These little whether it's Wolford whatever lion. You've got a way to move up the ladder and every time in the scouts you move up on the ladder you sit down with an elder said what your next goal isn't going to reach it. And so we have. So far all our grandkids have been big achievers in any of their whether athletics or. Whatever and? There's nothing wrong. Striving to be the best that whatever it is. The other thing I tell them all as a trade. I? Don't care what it is. It. Could be a trade. It turns out because our granddaughters have to doctors nurses parents was going to be a doctor another one by one at Dartmouth. Wants to bio research. And a little one wants to play. Lacrosse. That's. So but she's one of the best at what she does and and so. When we were, we were talking about that with when you when you think about success and you think about Warren Buffett and you think about you know the guy that came over from Vietnam who lives in danger and had nothing and now has three trucks and fifteen employees and managers, entire neighborhoods and coming from where they came from. There's nothing almost more successful than they've achieved unbelievable and I've seen growing up my my parents had had nannies for us. I don't think this comes. This is a prize to a listener that maybe a little silver spoon on me but. But, I've never seen anyone work so hard to make her kids life better than hers, and that's what I don't always see in in in my peers who grew up in. North America and the work ethic of of people who come here and who know what it's like to be in. Indonesia or the Philippines and have nothing, and then come here and have the opportunity and they day all take it. They really do. It's amazing. It's some. There's nothing holding you back but yourself. Just like the fair with covet. We unfortunately got Kovin. I. Know We're GONNA hang out eight hundred eleven of our family. And? Chad and his sister brought back from Heli scheme where they were skiing with the guy that had been in Italy now whether that's where it came from who knows. Nonetheless. We got it. We isolated. It was no worse than the flu for me. And I'm. You know. I've had three different cancers last fifteen years and I'm surviving them without any problem. And so I was a candidate. But. I was out. Buchan brush. Six days after I. I had the temperature and not went away and then it came back again. My wife on the other hand went to the hospital I. Wasn't sure she was going to come out. Never. Put on a ventilator because her oxygen levels were high but she got viral and bacterial pneumonia. And that was ten week ordeal for her. Now. She's out driving me on the golf, and so you can recover and the world's going to go on and. This henny penny. The Sky's falling scenario that we've got around us right now. is terrible because it. It's showing examples to our kids that aren't really. The ones you WanNa have and the kids aren't really that affected I. Mean there. We have to Chad's kids tested. Positive. For antibodies and never had symptom at all. and. It's going to weed out some people people that have issues are going to. It's it's a killer. Highly contagious. But we'll get through it. You know. So what would you do? You have having had it but also with just your your breadth of experience in life and and and give no one could ever say that you are not a contributor and your the kind of person that people would want to politics quite frankly because you have all this life experience and you, you can balance trade-offs if you were in charge and let's just take Colorado for now and you're you're governor police for a week. What are you doing similar or different? The you think helps. Bring things. To a head or whatever. But in Cova, but then also we both know that that the economy is GonNa have some there's a big disconnect between the market and the economy, and we're GONNA have to live with this for a long long time. I'm curious you would do. If, I were polos. Declare I'm independent and have no political issues number one. Because the politicians are playing this both directions and it's terrible. I would be respective of what we've learned. We've learned that masks do help. We've learned. Isolation. Helps but isolation kills other things. I think the biggest thing I would do is find. Any way possible to get kids back in school. And do it smart I mean. If you look at the science even though the science seems to be changing every day, we get new readouts on science. But for what I've read from what I know from my doctor. Kids. Is that. The youth are gonNA live through this. There may be a few that don't. They might not have anyway. And If we. Slow down a year in here. It's GONNA be multi years later on. and. I have suggested like to Chad Chad. That if the schools are going to do it over the Internet, not have schools. Let's go hire a teacher get three or four families have kids the same age. All pitch in to pay her or him whoever? And let them teach out of like I learned out of Calvert of a book that gives you what you have to know when you'RE A. Fourth Grade Fifth Grade Sixth Grade. Yes. They do have good books. And there are a lot of teachers, you know dislike our granddaughter at Dartmouth. She's a sophomore she's made the crew team as a freshman. They're still not sure what they're going to do, but she thinks dartmouth this gonNA come out. That on campus is just going to be for juniors and seniors. And the rest of them are going to have to. Do it over the Internet and she's not that she took statistics physics and chemistry this semester on the Internet and she says it's not a good experience. This is a kid that's scored thirty five out of thirty, six on our act's. Who likes the competition? She wants to get the A. And This past fail that they're doing in these colleges now is Really teaching the wrong participation medal. Yeah. Well, participation in your athlete, you know what? It's like. To work your butt off to be the best. Squash. Player in Canada and it takes sacrifices but. As It's a motivator for you and your life and and I think. If I were sitting in his position. I would listen to the Teacher's Union listen to the science and what they've learned in. Singapore and Taiwan and Iceland and the places that have sent kids back to school and done fine. And protect the teachers but. Let the kids be kids and learning school when you you believe so highly an education and the point that you just made and it's just the reality is those who have been more success more successful, relative more financially successful can afford to hire teachers and can afford to make different choices for their kids and so I mean I'll fully admit we have. Been Huge Sports Public School, the entire time, and as soon as we found out that they were going to potentially delay all of the things that we had our son in public school for was to learn how to engage with everybody and that he was getting taught how not get punched in the face in the school yard and other people were learning about. The things that he was aspiring and thinking about college and thinking of where he was GonNa do this and so like that interplay was so important and now that it wasn't there we're like, okay, we're gonNA, pull them from. Now we're going to put them in charter. The charter is going to be a whole bunch of like minded kids. It's online is highest education because we didn't feel like he got the right experience. DPS and so now the difference between him and someone else who should have the same opportunities going to be much. Much, different it seems to me that we're totally going backwards against all the opportunities that people are fighting for, and even what black lives matter stands for to give opportunity. But if people are in school and kids aren't interacting in learning and engaging, then it's just going to be about what your parents had and how successful your parents were. Because if your parents were successful, we will find a way for our kids to be successful that doesn't feel like that's what this is supposed to be about now and I think that the politics. Has played a big role in that and. You. Know you wonder where the common sense is? I think common sense is probably the most important. god-given trait we all have and When it's leading you to failure and repeating the failure over and over again, you don't give people you teach people. You know there's the old. Don't give them a fish, teach him to fish and catch fish, and then they can go on with it and. We've put in so many programs so many crutches along the way. At people aren't learning that, and so they follow the loudest voice and. They're getting taught I. I'm not. I don't really approve of what they're teaching in school anyway now. Because it's a very You know we're all bad. House white guys. You know I don't say I'm German American I. Don't say you don't say you're a Canadian American. You're an American man and we're all American and extremely patriotic. I've got standing in that. I come from a family I've got to in laws that are with joint operations in. Doing things that the public doesn't know about, which is good. Because they have to be done. I got another one. That's a full colonel teaching at West Point. So. We've got a lot of military in our heritage and Military teaches discipline. And in buds world if I were. Imposes position. Anybody defaced anything would be out there on the hottest day cleaning it up. I would gather up those people all of them. And, put them out. And make him clean up what they've done. If you look at the graffiti around the capital, let's look at the homelessness we on our bikes on our. down. The PLATTE. Has We got the Evans from Chatfield. You look on the other side from where we were. It's all homelessness. Then we came back in a little dry creek. There was a guy in their freebasing. With his propane torch. That's not what we want for our kids. And The only way you do it. Is. You have discipline the British you know I got caned. But after my second time I never got caned again ever. And I got through all the school that was really tough for me. So, there has to be lessons learned. And sometimes it takes. What I've said ten times now. We need we lacked discipline in this country. It is interesting to think about how ebbs and flows and I think about obviously I wasn't born in the sixties but I think about the sixties as being this sort of like an v Vietnam than peace and love and the sexual revolution and all that which then swung so hard the other way in eighties because of the AIDS virus. Everyone. Was So and then parents who I even remember being allowed to roam and go wherever I was going. Go My parents had no idea where it was very independent and now you know helicopter parents and these ebbs and flows is society but it does feel like were a lot less strict and were so afraid to offend and we're so afraid to discipline and we're so afraid to say our mind say what you really mean or overprotection. Is If they're city word yeah. We. Want the coddle. I mean I give our son credit. His kids ride from his house to his Ex's house all the places in between which is probably a six mile area and they're eleven and eight I think. He would be. The the liberal fraction who espouses all this freedom. They'd go crazy with that. Right would say he's abusing his kids. He's not abusing as kids. He's letting them find out how to cross the street, how to cope with something that's not in a regular pattern. And these were your building resiliency like you're. You know you have to know your parents are not going to solve all your issues I always used to. We have a gay middle side. And he always used to say. Dad what was your favorite time and I said the fifties everybody was out doing something and it was pretty clean what they were doing and and he says Oh that's the worst time. And so that in itself. Gives me another perspective of how different people look at different things And It's educational for me but I still stick with my conservative values because I think that's what creates people that contribute to society. More than people that hang onto society in this country of what I read is right which you can't believe anything read anymore. Is. There are more people. On the government Dole than there are people earning wages from outside the government. And it's it's like sixty forty. It's not a tiny number. Pretty soon, they're going to run out of workers. A good friend of Mine Ed mcbain he used to say. The minute you got more people writing the wagon then pulling the wagon it stops. and. That to me defines where America's going right now what I love 'cause yourself professed conservative person and again in today's Day and age it's like Oh if you're conservative Yo your they then they and you get labeled and yet as you said, if I if I heard correctly or middle son is gay and like it doesn't matter you have values and discipline and knowledge and you give back to society and you're you're involved with the Colorado school mines I mean you you just give all the time and I think people mistake that just because you have conservative values doesn't mean conservative people aren't paying attention to the world are all you know greed is good and capitalism is bad and all this. Of In there in the book oil and. Talk about the book I really. Views on. The reason that oil and water stairs because you look at the environmental good things have been done in this country. It's been fueled by people that have been successful. So the money that I can put in to cleaning up the Upper Colorado river is money I made out of extracting oil and gas or buying companies. And so. There's are the very people the ones that are successful that are actually contributing to things like. What we've done up at the. Up in, may upper Colorado. River. I mean the upper, the Colorado. River. I'll. Save feeds feeds liquid. To eighty million people in the whole south. West. And it's resource that if we don't take care of and we keep abusing. What's going to happen or are cities going to look like Montevideo, where they go from a very successful to where all these buildings are vacant and The homeless move into squatters move into your property. I've seen those places in the world have been there at scares me to death what's going on now? And so well, water was written. Because I wanted to tell my grandchildren because I'm not very good storyteller even though you've got me talking. I, I'd like to talk about myself unfortunately. I wanted them to know what we we had done and. The water in Colorado, Denver in the east the Western. Slope went eastern slope when be here if it weren't for the western Slope Water Just in northern Colorado between. Really. Colorado Springs and. Fort. Collins. They transship, and now my number's going to be a little bit wrong. But close to five, hundred, thousand acre feet of water so that we can water the population on this side that means green lawns nice trees. I look at a picture. Of, the House that I live in that, you're in right now back in twenty seven when it was built. This there wasn't a tree, it was all juiced yellow hills. We see out as you go a little further east away from the water. So the water that we bring over. Keeps. Our farm belt up around Greeley and Fort Lupton that area it keeps those lakes full it keeps the irrigators with water. And it feeds the consumers down here in Denver and Metropolitan Tri County. and. It's an issue. Here that a lot and you've obviously you've spent a long time we talked about this. You have a five hundred. That is looking at rerouting water flow and we won't get super into the details of that. But you saw an issue and and you've sort of helped mobilize an entire community around this being a good idea, public funds, private funds, trout's unlimited. At. But when people hear about the water crisis and I think that. The medically has been a real issue over the last ten years in the people. The next big issue I. Think people really worry about is water and it's even to me bigger than climate change because without water, you can't have a population in any center. Would you characterize as the biggest issue we have with water and what can we do to really mitigate it broadly for this country and and for for the world if that's not too big a an ask. Good very good question. We in my website. You cred dot us. We have a video in there that trout unlimited did were they went down in Denver. And they asked people on the street where they thought the water came from. Now I'm sure they had people that did answer the get filmed right but the ones they filmed. It comes out of the Faucet. kind of like energy. We just plug it in works. I don't know where. These just comes from God. So education again. Is probably the most important. there should be a subject taught all through. The southwest where we are watered deficient. They should be educating. School. Where your water comes from how it has to be treated. How good like Denver Water does in providing Reasonably. Priced water just like we in the energy provide for the cheapest energy in the world. People don't look beyond their nose. And Being an earth scientist. I mean, I just sent my wife out today. To get one, there's a book. Ancient. Denver I think it's called it matron science. That shows the real history. OF DENVER THE GEOLOGIC HISTORY and. It shows what bugs, what animals, what it was like during the Cretaceous in the Paleozoic and the. More recent times and how the mountains uplifted. I think. We've taken a lot of that out of school. And You know one of the most. Important education programs I ever had. was. I. Was in. Sophomore in high school and my folk sent me to a conservation camp for a week. and. We saw the bug life. We saw the animal I mean. I could show you video that I have that I've taken the last four or five mornings veil. Of a water Ouzo the dipper bird, the duper bird is the canary in the coal mine. We lost our dipper birds on our ranch property up in the Upper Colorado River. That's the first telltale to me. That when they live off the subsurface bugs, they may be terrestrial bugs but things that are on the water they swim underwater, the eat underwater. And they. are, very, amazing burt. And so I'm actually working with my video for. Cousin. To put on the video I've got the poor Zach firm up in boulder doing sort of a primer on water and Water Law because. Water rights mineral rights, and they're very hard. To breach that anywhere. But given a water, right you don't have the right to destroy the riparian area. Because so much depends on that area repairing areas, the area that's around. The water flow rate wherever you got a stream, you've got an area that's very healthy. And so Where we've been able to go to this battle is we don't want to take your water rights. They're yours you got on there just like a mineral rights, just like a royalty in our business. But, you don't have the right to destroy the land around it, and so we've met mounted excuse me I e. Effort in two thousand eleven, we have formed a five hundred, one c three with George spiritually who. Unfortunately died on me about a year after we did it, he was a developer of the Tech Center and out at inverness. Very very, bright man. But an old Colorado. His Dad was down in southern Colorado and did some of the first irrigation bringing water from the West Talk to the east slope words drier. And so he was very much. The one who got me so passionate about what can we do to return the river to what it was when I first came to? Colorado in nineteen fifty nine. And that's what the whole issue of my five. Oh One C. three is understand the science on what has caused the demise of certain species tax in the river. Understand. What's caused it. And what we can do to correct it because we all talk densify the problems. The problem we have in this country. Is Solving those problems and the social ones are the hardest ones. But this is I tried to tell by grandkids. Pick problems that you think you can solve. Don't waste your time on solvable ones because you're not going to do anything. So get the expertise. Get the mileage, the training, the education. So that, if you identify something. That you and your mind. Thank you can fix. And pursue it with all your passion and enthusiasm that defines my life. So we talked a little bit about homelessness and and. I think of it as it's a major problem for lotteries. Since we can talk about the economy, we can talk about the shutdown. We can talk about the loss of jobs. We can talk about the Fed printing money, which is like a band aid at best. But how how does one even contemplate some of these major social problems like you're talking about or or and we won't talk with the water but the social problems like homelessness how do you even contemplate? Addressing that, where do you have a whole bunch of people who have been under served by society and for one reason or the other mental illness just laziness and everything in between have sorta opted out and are now camped around the capital how does the city Denver six months from now address that and make people more productive as members of society and and how do we get a better place that one is the one I just can't get my head around. Make them work to eat. If they're gonNA move them all to the coliseum like I've heard rumored. That's fine. But then put them out there. Give them constructive jobs. So they feel good about themselves. and. That's I'm a petroleum engineer I'm not a social engineer and I really. I know how to take care of my own. But I don't know how to take care. I I mean I've indicated to you where I. Where my charity is. My charities fixing environment so Ten generations from now, they can benefit from it. Because it'll be what it was. When it was healthy and I'm not trying to take it back to. You know before the White Man came to America I'm trying to take it back to when I remember as a kid. You can't fix you know too many. The too many of the folks today. One a judge everything from today and I'll try and give you a quote. He. Who Only knows his generation? Remains a child. and. Were confronted with that today. I mean. They. Need some electrons to stimulate them. I need a stream to walk into stimulate me. or I need to go to my pond out background, need to listen to the wind in the trees to stimulate me. I don't need I. Don't really. Watch TV. Because it depresses me. Presses phase to up depressed I want to look at the bright side of everything. And as I mentioned to you. When you're down on the rug you don't have far to fall so. Go after your dream whatever it is whether it's Doing podcasts or buying oil and gas properties. Ormeau, in somebody's yard, I mean I go to Vail now and I see a whole bunch. Of what you would never have seen a few months ago guys mowing lawns. And We're we're really missing it. Is. There's no jobs. We're not kicking our kids out when in high school to get A. Job. Chad had an area should business in the eighth grade he bought Somebody's book and he did any caddie. So we had two jobs. Our daughter when she was in medical school went down to same Croton. It was A. Saint Croix. Saint Kitts. Worked in taking out monkey's brains for another doctor I mean. Now that had some opportunity because she was. At Darpa Yeah but. My Dad used to say, and you probably won't. Use this on your podcast but learn how to shovel shit with a spoon you have to. And these people need to learn that if they want to eat. They need to put him a day's work for and. That's easy for me to say, and I'm sure you every liberal out there would find. All these things bad about that. But if you're a mother and you got a child. And you've got to feed the baby, then get out and do something to feed the baby. Yeah, it is interesting that I it does seem to divide in terms of lines of of politics Republican versus liberal. But everything you're saying is as as you said, common sense and it's just not. So comet. Now we talked about your hobby and I wanted to talk about the painting. So I don't know you can I just over Bud's head, you can see painting on the wall and You painted it. Obviously, what year did you painted in? What is that one in particular tires story there to love it when I Turned seventy hours, roundup writer and my old horse die. Twenty six years old. And so. I was looking for a new horse so I could continue because I love to go up up at the ranch and gather. In a feel like a cowboy in real west and it's a lot of fun. So, I was trying out different horses and. One January day and I should have been aware because the guy that was selling was from the stop show. And I took this little Philly I'd seen her and she beautiful little three year old. and. I like to hunt. So I liked the hunt on horseback with my dog my dog finds the birds, points it I. Get off the Horse and shoot. And So I took her out on a windy January day out of the bluffs, which is out near Byers Colorado. When was blowing? Calmed her down after shooting the trailer and I took her out for maybe forty minutes and put her through everything I thought you could put her through. I was turning her around to buy her. And I don't know what happened. She got a Burr upper under saddle or something she started crow hopping. I. Think I lasted eight seconds but lost stirrup. And she started to go. How they get towards the trees and I've lost two friends that way. So I decided to bail. Well. Being, no. Parachute. I knew how to do a p. l. f. which is where you sort of land on your side. I'd had rotator cuff surgery on my right side before is trying to protect my shoulder. And you doing all this at an instant and I landed on my ribs and broke all my rib's on my right side. So. You know. It's an effort to do anything with a few ribs broken. It's really tough with all the ribs and they thought as a real candidate because I've seventy. Should. Should have made it through it. Or we went we had a trip scheduled. For. The South Pacific Tahiti. And that was five weeks after I broke my ribs. But an airplane chair was the most comfortable for me. I tried it out before. So we flew to the hedy. And everybody's out having a ball and I'm stuck in a room and. You get tired of reading. You get tired of you know we didn't have television there or relieve in good Wifi. There was a picture on the wall and I got a pencil when I start sketching. That's a seventy. And since that, this is a picture I did. Let's see. We took our granddaughter to Africa. And that's a sunset in Africa. And I take I, take a picture of something I've got a couple more in a house and I actually entered art showed this last year down in Florida. And you took it up at seventy, took it up to seventy never opposite engineer. I couldn't draw our color anything. And it just. I. Continually, go under. Chemo embolism. For recurring liver cancer and kidney cancer keep rearing their head. And I get a down time after that and. During. The fall and when things quiet down a little bit. Then I'll take them up again I've got I'll show you some other in the other room that I've done. But I never knew. This is this is one. Of An Eagle. One of my early ones. There's another one over you know I it just doodling. It's just having a I. have to keep my hands busy. You can tell. Trying. Not to be physically here but it's hard. It's taken me sixty episodes to learn how to keep my my hands to myself so that I don't bank I'm curious. I, mean you've done you've done everything and do you have any regrets? You know I go to Bible Study and I listened to a lot. We got maybe forty men and our Bible study and everybody's got. Got An event. that. They either regretted or was tough to live through. and. As I indicated earlier. I'm not very intelligent. So I don't even remember. The. Bad Events. I I. Regret Nothing. I've been faithful hardworking and husband provided wealth from my family and when the time comes I. Don't want to be premature but when it comes I'm going to say I, walk the good life and Really. Don't think I stepped on anybody maybe did but you don't know it. And being. In charge of acquisitions for Petra Lewis, and really building my career around buying things. My mind always worked find out what the other guy of wants and needs. and. If you can provide it, you can make a deal if you can't provide it just say thank you and go the next. He'll. There's lots of deals. and. So It's good to listen. Good understand because a lot of times they say things don't really mean him. But along the way. And I've done business with. Some. Very well-known people in the country not just oil. and. Always, been able to get the stock. Now it's tough in this environment when the bankers say, I've loan this. So that's where it's worth. It's worth Y X. And but we'll. We'll you know this is a good time. To be looking for opportunity. And I'll cite and example and even name the name. I knew Harold Hamm. When Harold Hamm had a high school education was driving a water hauling truck. And if I call Herald today, he'll answer the phone. And Harold Continental Resources at one time was purported to be. The man in America it's not that way now been through a lot of different things but. Herald knew more about the subject. than any of his competitors when he was gathering water, he knew which wells. Capable of more and if he could buy them at salvage value, you do it mid tournament of money. And Tournament Opportunity. So. You don't want to give up. You WanNa go out look there's opportunity around every corner. Different opportunity than maybe you're trained in are used to, but there's opportunity. You gotta find it. It's not going to hit you in the face. And so that's I don't. You know. It was a little bit hard after I broke all ribs is a little bit hard when I found out I had cancer and then I found out. Five years later I had cancer again but I. said all right. I'm Delta Hand I'M GONNA play it. And I've been able to play it pretty good. Well, we talked about Petra Lewis and when we first started chatting like really chatting last week and you were talking about. Petro Lewis Really taught you because I think if I remember at you did Jerry Lewis. Was a mentor beyond mentors. He taught me lots of things. And Jerry was just a really really good person underneath he. Followed some advice that identity agree with at the time when they finally. I mean we sold a lot properties to take care of bank debt. There was an opportunity when we bought those properties. To own those properties. Not Moving about the partnership. Some of US tried to convince him. But the sales people always prevail and they said Oh no, we can raise a hell of a lot more money by. Showing that we've got these properties and warehousing them for more partnerships. But that that was a turn. In my opinion. That caused the demise Petra Lewis. His that would have kept those properties Petra Lewis would be. A very successful independent. Till this last price thing right. I. Mean this this last one heard everybody. Yeah and. But that's GonNa Create Opportunity. So you got to look at it. I mean. I think you were with Chad the other day when we were trying to buy a property out of from the bank, the bank. Refuses to sell at that level. They may Whoa the day they may yet. But you started. So you would you have done a whole bunch of deals, Petra Lewis, and then you'd have to sell a whole bunch and that sort of made you realize then you could do it for yourself and yeah, I had a big break I was in charge of acquisitions. Before the Early eighties rolled around and. When we went through the first price, claps. The banks got anxious we owed them a billion dollars in that mark time billion dollars worth a lot. And? We hired Solomon Brothers to help us sell it but they had an out clause with Gulf because they were also trying to sell Gulf they knew that if that was much bigger fish to fry. But they've prepared our sales brochure force which helped me out. And then when they eighty-sixth us we. I was left with the selling the properties and. By May tenth we brought eight hundred million in the door. And that. was. A big big big. What's the model they call? We had partnerships we had banks we had we had. Everything had to be meshed together. Yeah. and. So I guess. Syndicate. Well. Yeah I mean, we had limited partnerships and limited partnerships ownership in the other limited partner very complicated. Yeah. A Rubik's cube that was solvable to get the money work needed to be for the bank debt. But. Then that left investor somewhat holding the bag. And By then it was the writing was pretty well on the wall that we're going to have to get rid of. That's when I decided to leave and start my own thing but. Having. Petra Lewis behind me and sort of being in charge of that. The engineering part of that I was a pretty good hot ticket at that point new everybody tell I knew herald and a lot of the other people. And so. Before eighty, six roll around everybody was laid off. I broke her deals and one of the big deals I brokered was with some people here in town and Exxon. And When I saw everybody else getting in the business. I decided that I should be. Getting my fees. In ownership positions and then I stepped up. And made the successful bid for knee when they left the rockies. All on a whim. Didn't have I had people. I knew I could go to. But I tied the deal and then I turned it over to where the money was and. Got Me going and. We Built A. Company. Based on. Those deals and In pretty smart at times never never hit the big home run, but we did a lot of singles doubles. Fortunately have no debt going into this thing so and have have really turned. Turned to buying personal royalties mineral interest because mineral interest stay there forever. And it's turned out. Obviously. Pretty pretty well. So what what is the thing looking back on on that part of your career that you're most proud of do you have a story that just store or a time that you? You just reflect back on and say I can't believe I did that Well I guess one story. was in Alaska. When I had identified I mentioned hours the engineer on the modern pop platform cook in inlet, an identifier that There was some opportunity in a completely different zone that we were looking at. Sorry about that. Good. And I presented it to my boss. And he sat me down and said when you can go tell that to your wife and she understands which talking about come back and tell me again. As a lesson learned early on. that. You don't. In our business, you don't over sell them with too much. BS or facts that don't matter. Show me where the bottom line is show me the money show me how it's GonNa work. And so that was a big lesson. Another lesson. was when we tied up. All Conoco's production big. Eight hundred. Billion dollar. Package. And I was unable to sell the idea of tight gas changing. And so we back that down. To about a quarter of the size and now was unable to. Make that point another point was. With Jerry Lewis Dwight moorhead and Mike Street Petra Lewis, I was unable to tell them. Convinced them. We didn't want to be in the partnership business we wanted to be in the oil business. Because then we had never had that problem. Because those properties would always pay off the bank debt. And then you could have survived the low time. If. You can have the debt. You know the other big thing. In. My lesson is. Leverages to it's sort. And too many people look at it. Going up. But then you still all going down and when that's what we're faced with the seventy or eighty bankruptcies in the oil business. Everybody was borrowing money. because. Everything looks good on paper. And I'll tell you Jerry Jones of the Dallas Cowboy fame. When I bought his first packet of production from Iran rix. So. But I've been looking all this stuff in paper and what it's worth on paper. What will you give me a cash for? And we did the deal. Yeah. But again. Too many people outsmart themselves. And I can site some other examples, other ways where I sold told people, they were crazy. And then they went ahead. Got It done. At the level that they that I didn't think was reasonable. Now looking back I was more right than they read. So in some instances, but you go through all this and so. The lessons that I've learned are. Am I turn off the news. How many are going joy My family, my dog, my properties and I'm GonNa live out as long as I can just doing what I love to do and not worry any more than I have already and I have a hard time. With. The liberal charity mentality. because. When Lyndon Johnson. Married all the young one women to the federal government. Was the start of the demise. Of what we consider. A Republic. Because all of a sudden now, we got eighty five percent of the babies are born. With android mothers, not that there's anything wrong with mothers. It's just that. It's awfully nice to have a father involved horrified other figure. We live in interesting times and I think the thing I'll remember the most about this discussion today is, is that if you only know your own generation, you really are missing. All of all of the lessons, the goddess here, and just because you didn't live through, it doesn't mean that it didn't happen and to start. To start as a six year old with with your data Chevron and learning the oil field and then Vietnam and Colorado school mines and entire career energy. Charities. Environmental. Boy Scouts. I mean you've you've done it all you've lived at all and I feel very blessed and I hope I. Hope Everyone who listened. Why play a wicked harmonica? Every time he says southern I feel. Badly about all the decisions I make. But what a fascinating fascinating person I absolutely I'm so grateful that you spend the time in an open your home in an open, your your your mind in your heart to share these stories because I, think they're they're so interesting in there. So valuable, I learned a lot. I hope everyone did too. And Look for to the next conversation. Until next time be safe be good. Have a great day. Bye.