4 Episode results for "dr tamas"
Tips To Convert Potential New Patient Calls To Appointments
"Yes is the thriving dentist show with Gary Tax where we help you develop your ideal dental practice one that provides personal, professional and financial satisfaction. Welcome to another edition the Thriving Dennis. Show I'm Gary Texts. Your Co host Thanks for joining us today. We have a very exciting topic to share with you today. As you see from the title, it's title. Four tips to convert potential new patient calls to appointments. And I'm going to share with you. How to become more successful at your conversion rate conversion rate is a term we like to use for callers converted to appointments obviously want that to be as high as possible. Hey, before we get to. This episode a quick announcement. Coming up soon in the time that we're publishing, this is our July thriving dentist MBA livestream Guinness livestream. We covered ten elements of a thriving practice and we go into detail about those ten elements. You. It's an eight hour course. that you get six hours of CE Adar course padeas six hours of CE. We're doing a livestream format and we're experimenting with different timeframes to make it more convenient and accessible to to folks to attend in July. We're doing two consecutive Fridays. So half of the course will be on Friday July seventeenth. From four to eight PM Eastern and then we'll continue the course to the second part which will be on the following Friday on July. Twenty fourth, also four to eight PM Eastern. We'll put a link in the show notes. strongly encouraged to join us for that one day thriving dentist NBA livestream. because. We do these virtually. We've got some very attractive pricing. You know we don't have airfares. We don't have hotel meeting rooms We don't have hotel costs. We don't have catering class and so we've cut the the price to the BOM to encourage. You to get access to affordable quality. Continue Education, so consider this an invitation to come join us for the July. NBA Livestream, July, Twenty July seventeenth in July, twenty, four. Now under the episode of four tips to convert potential new patient calls to appointments. I'm really excited about today's coaching action segment. Today's topic is four tips to convert potential new. cost to appointments. and. Getty. You have been. Helping practices grow their practices, and you have been doing this for your life might since two thousand and seven. I assume you see some people who are really really good at conversions meaning favorite call coming in from a potential new client. They're very good at converting those into. And I bet some people probably even miss half or more of their calls coming in from potential clients in other words, those people don't, but can appointment don't show up. Can I characterize that in believe it's the title of the movie. And if I was GONNA title Miss I would duplicate the title of the movie that we're probably familiar with. The good, the bad and the ugly. That was I was a kid. I saw that movie like Multiple Times a Clint Eastwood is me. And sadly. Many offices. It's the bad and the ugly, but the dentist has no idea. The doctor has no idea. What's going on? Right and here she thinks they're working isn't working. You know they'll often say to meteorologisy morning patients any more new patients I'm just not whatever we're doing. We're not get enough. I just need you know you know we've got a good team. We've got good resort. We got good systems, but any morning patients. And, what Dr Often doesn't know is here. She are getting plenty of calls. From potential new patients. But they're not doing a good job of converting them to appointments, and it gives a A. You know the doctor has a misperception of what's going on. As of today. Twenty Twenty in the year twenty twenty. What do I want my marketing to do as of today? What do I want the marketing to? I wanted to stimulate the patient to call. Make an appointment. Now there's other ways to get an appointment. We can do it through online real time scheduling. But you know online real time. Scheduling is still in its infancy in dentistry. And hope to more of that. And Marketing is the one that them to call up schedule online, but then how they do it like you said today, ninety percent of the people do it through phones. Well, there's another saying they kind of comes to mind. Yes, actually much higher than that as of right now as of the time a recording us. Less than one percent of dental appointments are made to real time online schedule. I believe can teach. That that will meet you know his time for example, the the one application that I think is most common. Most people have experience with. Is Open table with restaurants open table. Other grants that are open table clients get a significant number of their registrations. Through a potato. You know it's an APP. and. That's because people while they WANNA reservation. They don't want to call the wrestling. They don't WanNa. Talk to him. They go. Hey, I wanna come at seven o'clock. Get it open table, boo, go, but that hasn't translated. It's it's changing. You know changing over time, but there's been resistance on doctors part. To. Open their open their schedule. And stand right because open tape, I mean open table. I go to go into the restaurant I. Eat from the same many, but here you know I may have to see the hygienist. The doctor you know doctors have their own schedules going on so I get it why it hasn't translated like open table has. In fact. It works easier for Hygiene Appointments Hygiene appointments are pretty standardize. restored. Employments are anything but standardized right right so today you know ninety nine percent of new patients come in through a phone call. They call the office to make an appointment ninety nine plus percent come in that way. So a lot of still realize that marketing is just about you know again to use a a kind of a term that we're all familiar with. It's about getting the Horse to water. Water. But. The conversion is getting the horse to drink. The water, but sources drinking. You didn't finish the job. Offices don't know that their phone is actually ringing. But they're not converting them. You know when I hear a doctoral. Tell me you know in conversation that. You know my marketing isn't just working. I is a working I always, asked the question. Dukla. Let me dig a little deeper I need. More information is maybe at a meeting or or in email. Let me dig a little deeper. Doctors the problem that you're not getting phone calls. Or is a problem. You're getting the calls, but you're not converting them to appointments and guess what the answer is almost one hundred percent of the time. Guess what the answers. I don't know I don't know. But I've gotten their attention. His is like Oh. Gary I can see that's different. It's a different problem if the phones not re. If the phone's not ringing your market. He's not working right. Now if if the phone's ringing, we're getting plenty of calls. But we're not convert a different problem to solve. You make sure yourself there. That's part of management. Solve the right problem. Right it sounds so basic, but it's. It's no that ninety people go down. They don't know what the right problem solved. and. They might have a perception. Of the problem. I'm sure the phone. Because they? How did they get their data? They usually ask this very same person who's supposed to book the appointments and she say she's not going to say well. I suck at my job. Oh, I don't know how to convert these patients. Yeah, the phone doesn't ring. Booking. And again you can't blame people because data member. What happened yesterday? Anecdotal evidence? It's not data driven. It's not scientific. And, I also want to sort of. Wade into a little bit of a controversial. Part of this discussion. Many offices have been trained. The wrong way. Train wrong way. They had been trained and I'M GONNA. Be Politically. Correct did not name any names. Or, companies that they've been trained. That new patient patient call should be two minutes or less than it's all, but it's all about just slamming into an appointment. Right wrong, wrong, wrong and wrong if that's what you're doing. quit drinking the KOOL aid. And we'll show. We'll share a better way. Because you may get the appointment by doing it, but if you track, what's your kept appointment percentage, you'll discover that. A vast majority of appointments made with that methodology results in patients, not showing up. And why is it that they don't show up because they have no connection to you? Know kind of and it goes against everything you teach of. Ten elements like relationship driven. How can you build a relationship Banou? Kind of you know look at the customer like an object. As opposed to a human being, here's a mindset mindset. Observation. We used to think that you know it's all about first impression so about first impressions. And we used to think that the first impression is. We met the patient in the office, and that might have been true back twenty years ago right, but where's the first impression now? Likely? Where is it likely today online alike? It's likely on your website. or Reading Google Review. In something like that, and where's the second impression? The phone. Call the phone call. Right and saying if let's say you're, you're a well, you know. What if you don't make a good first impression? You'RE NOT GONNA get a second one so I. Think you should take a look at your website and take your online presence. Make sure on page one of Google search and all that, but let's say you've got that. Than if the second impression doesn't isn't consistent with the first. They're not going to be honest. I would argue the second impression is the first human connection meaning it's it's the first person to person connection because tell them they're looking at stuff. They're not talking to anyone. Feeling of that, you know. Seeing the person cares about me. None of that is happening. None of that communication mobile communication, the tone of voice. None of that is happening, so I would argue that second impression is the most important impression. Obviously the first impression it's like. A great point. You're so you're so spot on. Of that, so let's let's dive into those four tips tips that are going to help and and if I can ask. I don't like to talk about it. This is my practice, but you track conversion you meeting. Your team tracks right. If you had to give a report card for how we do at my life smiles practice. Is You find this year. Some numbers getting race. I would like that I mean I want to be transparent you you. You have it but we track this. We're quite copious about it, but we get a significant number of new patient calls in our conversion. Wait I'm pretty apple. So for example in the month of May, you got four hundred thirty eight phone calls. and. And we have been doing this from two thousand and seven trucking causes and so forth. Typically. An Excel Excel. Excellent practice would convert. Twenty percent. Of their calls coming in. Give me that. Let. Let me let me let me let me say it again so. Let's say you get one hundred cars. Typically. Twenty percent of the calls are from new patients. Eighty percent typically is from your current patients. Maybe people you do business with everybody else. So one of to combine realities is in twenty twenty. Often go to your website just to get your phone number and their Needs Company So you're saying that your data says that eighty percent. Of those calls are people just connecting with you do not really potential new patients. Exactly if the reverse that you'll say, twenty percent of those calls are actual potential new patients. What was the topic number in four, hundred, thirty, four, hundred, thirty eight, is that total number of people calling twenty percent of that so doing quick math? Eighty eight people potential patients, yeah! Right so, you have eight people calling. Card you in the month of May. Potentially patients I was checking your math, but I need to not do that anymore. Narran because the actual number was eighty seven point eight percent. Or Eighty seven point eight potential new patients. So I'm going to quit Feeling the need to check your math because you've got a computer in that Noggin of yours. Just trust you, but yeah so eighty eight. That were potential new, and then how many new patients did we get? I. I believe around eighty new patients. Actually Eighty on the number. Right, so, what's our conversion percentage? For that so. More than ninety percent, so you converted ninety one. I don't know the exact, but it's more than ninety percent again. Why am I checking your mouth? It was. Percent Ninety point nine. Can we call that ninety one? Can you run? Yeah, ninety one percent exactly nine even percent, so you converted ninety percent so in my expedients having looked at costs. A+ Most practices. Convert? The vast majority and Close to that many practices don't even do that. They convert one third on thirty percent forty percent. So if you're converting more than a half, you are I, would call you a beep practice you know, but but the way I look at it as you're burning thousand dollar notes, one hundred dollar notes by not converting all the other people because you work so hard, build up your reviews. You hire a marketing company. You spend lots and lots of money to make that phone rang, and if you're not converting Gary Practice does ninety one percent of them. You're burning hundred dollars beds all day long. Good point well, let's dive into these four tips and help. Our listeners improved their conversion. Conversion, percentage so number one. And we've kind of giving you some a teaser on this. Since some insight on this, know your data. No your data. Doctors you need to know how many new patient calls. You're getting every month. And secondly you need to know how many of those are converting to appointments need to know your data call. Tracking is what it's called. And near and I know you do that. You're marketing firm. Does that for us? We have called tracking. As part of you know it's. It's A. It's a fixed fee. Every month to part of that you know is called tracking, so we have the data. But if you're listening to this and you're not in Equa client. You need to get that data somewhere otherwise. You're completely like driving around blindfold. You're literally light like imagine getting into. You know a luxury car with a pair of blindfolds on Senate blindfolds driving down the street. That's how you're driving your practice without this his data and really the two data points that you need to know that there could be more, but there's some data points that you need to know one would be just. How many how many calls am I getting? Potential new not just calls 'cause you know. It could be an existing patient calling to change a hygiene appoint. Many potential new patient calls, do you? Want to know of those. What percent do we convert to an appointment? And I talk about conversion meaning a kept appointment. Technique if they make an appointment, don't show up. That doesn't count. It's got to be a kept appointment. I also might like. Tell me what else you might like to know. Nearing because you provided for us I might WanNa know how long the phone call is. Yes typically receive phone calls is less than a minute. Nothing happened so you don't even need to worry about those calls. Typically a good call as A, minute two minutes many ideally like four five minutes. Yeah, it's longer bait and you'll get it when when you go through these other tips, but you need to know some data. If you don't have the data, you don't drive your watch. RICCAR blindfolded. Don't yeah. So and don't ask. Don't ask your receptionists because that's an Lebanon's whatever she feels like that. You need hard data. You need every single phone call tracked and recorded, and you need numbers there's. A, place where anecdote it works, it totally doesn't work now. Let's help our listeners. Couldn't that be done by culture? Call tracking numbers in other words. Cannon Office and you help me with this because I'm a tech side. Can in office have a dedicated number where we know that anytime that numbers Rene? It's a potential new patient can be done. Absolutely and that number can. You know. You can count how many calls came to the number software, so it's all automated reports. You can record the cars. You can listen to the 'cause you can even. With certain pieces of software you can even enable it, so people can text you, so you don't need to give your cell phone to your patients, but for the patient who's at a cafe and they come talk to someone. They could send a quick text about. Hey, you know. I need to come and see someone by Z.. You guys free Friday. Excellent so number one no data, no your data. Number two number two. In that call the primary goal of your team member is to connect with the caller. Connect with the call. Now. And where many offices make the big mistake? Is They lead? With! A question, about, insurance. Do you have insurance Narran? First question. You have, insurance. And then the doctor wants to know why they're practices so insurance dependent. We're leading with that like the patient might feel that long. No I don't. To be honest. They. Don't see these calls when you listen to them most of the calls. Team members are trained like they'd see themselves as answering questions like a typical receptionist I'm here he's. Like a gatekeeper exactly exactly, but don't lead. You'RE NOT GONNA. Lead with. Jones. NO WE WANNA lead with an this comes back to fundamentals from Dale Carnegie. The sound of everyone's name is one of their very favorite sounds. Oh, I'm so glad now. No person just called an entirely by one of my could be. Carly could be mighty could be make. Carly might say on so glad you called. We love seeing new patients by the way my name's Karl. Who Am I speaking with? That in Ninian's great to meet you, I can't wait to meet. You face to face. It's great to meet you over the phone. So start with that start. Start with something like that mining's carly. Who Am I speaking with? Ten it's subtle, but I'm amazed at how Man I've listened to. Thousands of thousands of calls and I'm amazed as amazed at how many times that's not done, and then we want to connect with the patient. You know obviously we need some information, but you do not want that call to be a twenty question interrogation. Right. Right. Does, anybody WANNA be interrogated. No, you ought to roll the red carpet out. And I want you know I'm not a fan of scripting, but I am a fan of some phrases and I like to have her hip pocket. We love seeing new patients I'm so glad you called. At say it with meaning. Another one just another one. Near you call right office. How do you feel if I said that? You call the right office. You're making a really good getty and the reason is. When we listen to these calls. There are few patients who have an emergency. You know what they're gonNA book you know you could be. You could be the the worst person answering calls. They'RE GONNA book no problems whatsoever, but does the large number of people. The majority of people who are seven out of ten in having made the decision to book. They still are not totally sure. They want to mean. I'm sure I'm like that I'm sure. Perhaps you are like that. You kind of get a feel for you. Know who your dentist is going to be for the next few years or who you are, x is going to be for the next. While I mean this is an important decision. Right picking doctor. You know picking a practice that you're gonna go to for a long time. So you want to just get to know them, you want to seve. Practice. Do you want to know that you're making -sition so? When the patient is not sure yet meaning that they saw these beautiful reviews, they went to the website. They see the before and after. At the end of the day. They don't know you haven't met you yet. They haven't gotten a feel for the human in that practice yet you. All. In you know simple things like the name like some of the you know, we love seeing new patients. I'm so glad you called. You know in a different context. You know you're GONNA. Say something like you. You call the right office, so make sure you connect. Make sure you connect with the patient, and of course they're going to tell you. If they're having any concerns, and you'll has different types of new patients, emergency patient, and then there's the one that's now I just moved to town in my I met my neighbor I had to borrow some sugar, even unpacked and I went next door and met my neighbor and You know we started up a conversation and we're looking renew. We don't know anything and we. We say by the way we're GONNA be looking for a desk. Oh, you have to go to my dentist and she told you about. You know they're just looking for a dentist. They want to get established and so you WANNA you. WanNa connect you to connect with the call. Older in some a warm. Friendly carpet out manner now let me go to tip number three. This was technical. A very important. Set up a scheduling template where you can see them. In three business days or less for their point, three business days or less. Now, that's hard. That's not easy to do because Narran what's going to happen to that new paid not an emergency, but the new page. I'm just trying to get establish and the first available new new A patient appointment is four weeks away. What what's going to? Most? People don't know. Don't say what they think. So they would say. That that's fine, you know. Put me in, but they're not gonNA. Show up! and. Say Call you back, so it's one of those two responses. We have the attention. Span of the public has an attention span of a net today. Now. Many doctors don't even know where they stand on this recently. Before Kobe I was talking to a doctor. Who said you're all I need is warn patients, motivations line is more patients. You know we've got good system. They got a great team. I'd see more patients. And unbeknownst to him. I had already gone through remote access to with permission to his computer, and I discovered that his first available new patient appointment was five weeks away. Five weeks away. So now. The team, the gatekeeper well. We can do this on five weeks. Patient his you know. The the the high s patients who don't like conflict, said okay. Go ahead bougie down. The DIS rise are saying about goodbye. And they're calling someone else and so the doctor that he realized he's not set up to accommodate new patients. So if you WanNa have a practice that is a growth oriented practice. You've got to back it up with your action. You've gotta be able to see a new patient within three business days now we do that through block scheduling and our pace is three new patients in a doctor, and so we have blocks three times a day for the doctor part of the new patient appointment thirty minutes on Paul and Tim. Schedule, and we we hold those we scheduled with the new patient or we hold those. Up till forty hours before. And then we release them scheduled, but and you had you got. It's a moving target. You GotTa Constantly Monitor. How am I doing? When's my next new patient appointment? When's the next new patient? Appointments starts to stretch out there now. I will be a little flexible with you in the perfect world. It's three days or less your way out there, and that's not realistic I'll go a week a week. But I'd rather have it be three days, but I certainly don't want it to be five weeks. Fixed that first because if you don't fix that, then your marketing is GonNa fall on its face because you're not available. For you're not tuned into patients desires today. I shared this recently in one of her office hours meetings. I love dentistry. Wrong guilty of this narran before. Cova did I was in Chicago and I use Uber or lift you know when I'm traveling rather than the rental cars you know and so I hit my uber search. And it was eight minutes and I a figurative Tantrum my head eight. I'M NOT GONNA. Wait eight minutes for over and over to lift and lift was four minutes. Embarrassed I didn't actually I think patience is no longer watch. For most of us. A week two weeks like knowing how it's a lost art, I know. When we're lift was available in for of course I hit that one. It was like okay I'll do four but anyway just an example, so let's go to number four. At the end of the call I want you to do something very specific at the end of the call and typically I find that. These calls are five six minutes because we're getting to know the patient low bit about them. And you know at the end of the call say narrative coming to the finish line here. We're GONNA. Get scheduled and taking care of Hey, what first of all you're gonNA love office and you're going to be seeing Dr Paul and you're GonNa love Dr. Paul I of a work assignment for you before your appointment, please go to our website and go to about the doctor page. And you'll learn about your Lord about why you're gonNA appreciate calling to seeing Dr Paul and and why you call the right office I can't wait to be face to face so now we're going to give them get them back to your website and directed to the about the doctor I'm assuming your doctor about the doctor page is a waiter. And a couple of quick tips you might have us for the doctors. You could feature their tool called Pastis of odds. You could highlight views from Google in the form of graphics, or you know text reviews captured. You know you could have pictures of like you know. Dr Paul. Beautiful family young family so now I have a family or top about Dr. Paul is a picture of Paul. Hall, his wife, Erin and therefore amazing children. Integral. and. Of course it's written in such a way that anybody really Dr Tamas Tim and his wife Britney and therefore beautiful children. Three daughters and a son. Paul Paul has three sons and. Tim has three daughters and son and Gary has three daughters and a son. So immediately when mom goes to about the doctor pages, he sees his beautiful picture of of all. Is Wife Arid and the three kids? What does she think? What would? Meet, him. And by the way if you're take a look at your about the doctor page, but now I'm going to encourage them. I won't say that everybody will go there, but most of a will when you give them encouragement and you. Own you'll love. You're going to really love Dr. Paul I Really WanNa encourage you to go to the about the doctor pages take a quick look that gives you a little bit. It just makes people curious you know then maybe they bounce around other parts of your paid other pressure website. We know that this is right from the playbook of rubber Shell Dini. His second book. Old Pre suasion. Aren't so for example on the about the doctor page. We have a header. At the top of the page. That are testimonials that scroll. Through the top of the page right now. She's GonNa read that and she won't read all the testimonials, but she's GonNa. Read a few of them. It's like oh my gosh. Carlin's right I did call the office. It's pre suasion pre suasion. That patient is coming to you with already some kind of connection had they got there, so let's recap and then we've got some really great questions our audience has submitted some great questions that are so appropriate for this, but let's recap the for chips, so here's four tips to convert more of your potential new patient calls to appointments. Tip Number. Know your data. No your day need to know how many calls you're getting. And how many are being converted, and you'll be able to configure out your conversion rate from their tip number to connect with the caller. Get their name. Money's carly. Who Am I speaking with? Connect with the caller some phrases. We love seeing new patients here at life miles. I'm so glad you call. Another phrase they have on your hip pocket. Karen you called the right office. TIP number three. Set scheduling template to be able to see you patients within three business days or less and I'll. Give you a week. If you have to, but hopefully you'll get. You'll get that down to three days or less. You enhance your results. You'll see your conversion rate. Go Up! And timber four at the end of the call. Encourage them to visit the about the doctor page. Just tell them where they can find that. encouraged become visiting enclosed with leading. Know How much you look forward to meeting him face to face. There's the four tips Darren. Let's let's pause coaching and action here. Let's dive into those questions because we've got some good ones. Absolutely and just one announcement I. WanNa make I know. Many many of Garris fans and I'll becoming coaching clients, and one of the things get a you have decided to do, and you've already done with a few clients is. What you're calling, td Bobo skills right where you are. You are teaching them how to have that. Amazing I phone call in a how to build that rapport to reassure them like you said know you know sometimes. People aren't really sure so you have to reassure them that. They made the right choice, but in a calling this office. You know how to grow their confidence I to say that because I know you have a superpower. You are like the mass to communicate the master influence. Now your clients get to learn from that? You know like literally from you, so thank you for doing that is fun to see team members. Blossom THEY WANNA. Do the right things and sometimes they just need to know. These needs some direction. It's some of the favorite aspects of my work is training team members on verbal skills of what to say how to say it. It's a passion of mine, so thanks for that comment near. In today's thriving dentist QNA segment I have full questions from you from across. Across the US. As you are, no today's topic is four tips to convert potential new patient calls to appointments. Kerry let me read the first question. I recently discovered that many of my calls are going to y smell during business hours. How can I correct this? Account I. Love that question and it's a little painful for me to answer, but but I wanNA answer it. With a quick story about my own practice. Near Two years ago? We use we've we've? Is Our phone system slash patient communication system. and we had recently converted to leave and love it by the way if you're not using we've I strongly recommend it. really love it and The that we've is is actually a very good friend of mine. And Mike reached out to me and said. Hey Gary We have the ability to to do this research. About what? How many what percentage of your calls during business hours are going to voicemail? Would you like to do that for him? And I said Yeah Yeah. My do that. That'd be good, but. We don't have a problem with that. Were spot on. Because we have here's what we do, Mike we have you know cross trading? So my assistants trained You know that if the phone rings more than twice, the May they run for the phone to answer it. And might teams do an amazing job, but yeah. I'd be interested in knowing that, but I won't be surprised if you discover. We're doing really well. Can you see where this is going there? Yes, yeah, so Mike. Does the research and he calls me back and he says Aguirre you sit down. Ha. Should I be Mike. Yup. Down here. We did the date on your practice for the last six months. Said would you be surprised if I told you ready for this? Forty two percent. Of Your calls during Your Business Hours. are going to voicemail. NARRAN IF I would've had any hair at that point now. That ship sailed, but if I would have had here, I would have pulled it out. What, My you know what you're out the ratio you. Shows me. I was flabbergasted. flabbergasted. If someone calls it a night and it goes to voicemail. You know what? that. But we're open from seven am to four PM. The phone's ringing from seventy four I want an answer. And this was not my team. Members Fall. There were not that was not that. We don't have team members sitting around putting voicemail, the only reason would go to voicemail is after rings, a certain number numbers that automatically just certain number of times it goes it. So we corrected that and we've has a function for that Ananias that they have text back function. And can be programmed in so rather than going to voicemail. They immediately text back to the caller, and we can customize the message with the message, says something like. Hey this. Is Carly apprently taking care of? Another patient and I can either call you right back. At, when I'm done with this call, or you can text, and we tear by text and guess what most of the most of the colors do. Is today I wanted to play for G. It happens in real time. And we've now recovered. Those calls were going to voicemail if it goes to voicemail if it's a potential new patient going to voicemail. Patient does. Don't call back. They don't leave a message. No callback. They just hang up and they go to the next office in their search. So. I feel your pain Abud Way. How can you find out if you don't have we've? How can you find out the phone company? Your phone company will will do that very often. They do that at no cost, and they can tell you what percentage of your calls during these hours or going to voice, both so might be as simple fixes adding another line. Could be that simple. But oftentimes you're just not You're not able to handle the call, so you need another way to handle those. and you know like like we did. We do a good textbook function and you've done that for your clients as well it takes function is. Absolutely, what should describing and figuring out? How many calls are going to Weisman Yeah, we call tracking system allows us to do the same thing and you're right. Some practices are good at answering. Eighty to ninety percent of the calls during office, but some practices I think sometimes. We don't realize we have this blind spot. You know maybe because you lost someone. Maybe because you don't have enough phone line. There could be a lot of reasons, but you aren't catch it. Let me, put you on the spot near. What would be an appropriate benchmark? Let's using the positive. So in our case. We're missing forty two percent meaning we're. We're catching fifty eight, so let's keep it in the positive. What percent would you consider to be an a on the report card? Of calls during business hours that we get what what percent would be. I have to deport. Many of our clients are doing well here including you now. I think ninety percent is in A. I was to have seen clients. Yeah I'm sorry I was GonNA follow the grade curve, traditional, having curved and ninety percent, or more would be an a eighty percent to ninety it'd be it'd be and so on, and so I'm being verifying that with me, based on your knowledge of this. And some practices even get ninety three percent ninety four percent so. Once they become conscious of this problem, they get on like you guys. Did you know just a lot of times? It's totally unconscious. They don't even realize it's happening because you know they're busy and they're handling things, so they don't count. How many cars are getting missed? Yeah, yeah, absolutely well I doubt. Thank you for asking that question. And maybe we'd we treat other doctors to find out. Maybe they don't know I didn't know that. Forty two percent of going to voicemail I was shocked I was. Very grateful for my for? Digging up the data data never lies, people do. Evil but I told my I a. you can do that research. You're GONNA find that we're rocking it. Nope not the case. The next question is a great question. Gary. It comes from Michigan and the question is Gary I. See that you have a check bought on your website. Have you found that useful? Oh Man. Absolutely if your website doesn't have a chat I, mean it's you know in tech terms is known as a Cha Chat Bot but if he doesn't have a some kind of communication about like that. You're really missing the boat near. You know a lot more about the data behind that because Equa you're the one built that for a website. Why is that important for doctors down chat function on their side. Yeah so. When, you look at people who go to your website, typically two percent of the people. On, not, convinced yet. To call you in order to make that communication. They're still doing the research. They're not there yet to pick up the phone and call. And also depending on where they are more and more people, get to your website and pretty much many of our clients. Are Now using mobile devices so mobile devices? You know you don't have to sit in front of your computer to use a mobile device. You could be at a restaurant having coffee. Dear friend, you could be driving in the car and boom. You know the the traffic and you. You have nothing better to do. Just looking at some stuff I mean I'm not a commending it, but you know people do that. You might be office then. You can't talk to someone at that moment. So when you see this chat Bob Papa Up, and you have this urge to do something. Maybe you know. Ask a question now. Most like the two percent of the people will respond so if I use a simple number like five hundred visitors going to your website. That's ten extra people a month. So! The Chat Bot is designed not like a serey. Just a fun thing to answer questions. It's like a workflow. The purpose of the chat board is to find out who you are and a way to get a hold of you. It's almost like a automated FAQ's exactly because I. Mean I mean how many callers to a dental office? There is pretty predictable what they exactly. What I'm blown away at I'm literally blown away because it's not my my own personal pattern I'm blown away at how many people visit our website in the wee hours right to in the morning three in the morning. You know one thirty. Away, and we gotta have a way to connect with them and chat gives a great way to do that and ours. You describe ours narrative because it's not like some robot it's. It's MEG right. It has picture. and. It's very personable. And it's very effective I'll give an example. recently I want to order a new pair of Nike running shoes. I went to the Nike site and I engaged with the the Chat Bot and basically ask some questions, and you know literally I think three questions into it I had the perfect pair of shoes that I wanted. And I know it was I mean I know the technology side? I know there wasn't a person they're doing it. They were able to ask. Questions vary specifically. And great okay no I know. I ordered. You know so the Chat Chat Bot I would say as it must in twenty twenty and beyond. If you don't have that, you're miss. You don't know what you're missing in terms of after hours. Contact with with your with your office so. You know you don't want that to slip through your fingers so I mean ten extra patients a month, the talent twenty year. It adds up and you don't have to do anything to get those patients in so usually. What happens is an email gets sent to the office, and because you know the answer, their name and cell phone, and so for someone typically will call back right away and. Couldn't continue with the conversation and get them to book. It's a very powerful tool to kind of push the people who are not ready to call yet to become plans to thank you for that. INSIGHT GETTY? My next question is. This comes from California. Should I be recording my cause. Yes. Yes exclamation point. If you're not recording your calls, doctors. You have no idea what's being said on the phone. You have no. Oh, no I know I know I. Know I know Durango I mean Susan with me for twenty five years. Many doctors. Don't. Have the support. That they want their practice to have. Dr Has a growth perspective around double digit growth every year. And that may not be supported by. You might have a team member says on. That just means more work. So No, you don't know. And so, yes, you need a reporter calls you to do it legally. It is illegal. You give to Alleles. And you need to use those calls in a coaching. CAPACITY WE! We do it lifestyle stuff the way I liked to do it. Is. For, whatever the period of time is I? I liked to have six colts that I sit down with the team and do some coaching with. And I and this is just like a football coach watching game film. We're always GONNA. Get better. It'd be better to buy part of their cultures. Be Better tomorrow than we are today. I want to emphasize you. Do not use these calls as a club. If you're GONNA, use them as a club. Don't do this. You do not use this as a club. Use It in a positive training approach. You create a safe environment. And use it for positive reinforcement and training, and so when I like to do is have six calls. Four of the ratio is very important. Four of our our positive where I can reinforce all the great things. They did right. And two of them need work. Notice the ratio four to two. Twice as many compliments, corrections twice as many compliments as corrections, and then we coach. Recently I did this and You know. One of the calls that needed work was for some early, and I played it in three three seconds into it. She goes. Oh my Gosh! I! Don't even sound friendly their. I get pause. To play anymore. I said Carly I ensure you were dealing with. You. Know three patience checking in this is Pretty Cohen so three patients checking in four checking out, Dr, probably buzzing on the light system the supply. Guys at the back door banging on the back door to deliver the supplies. I'm sure I'll. She was I know. I know that probably happened, but. I still have to figure out how to sound friendly when the wheels are falling off. How much coaching did I need to do their? Zero t she never did. And I think a lot of times. It's that in the moment. They don't realize what's happening like. They're so caught up in all the things that's happening, but when you let them listen to these calls, and you're in providing nurturing environment like a lot of the problems. They'll figure it out themselves. One. Say backed carly so it also happened to be her and this patient had. It was it was literally like. Fifteen questions. And Carly was patient. So patient! And she was so. Compassionate. And I mean it was just classic and let me carry this out. This patient ends up making an appointment. and. She ends up being a smile. Design case in our practice attenuated upper anterior hotel midair case. That's an expense. That's a high value. Case Center practice. If Carly wouldn't have been so patient. I mean. It's one thing to get an appointment right. I, mean you get an appointment. It's great. Right viewed an appointment for a smile design. I mean I just won the lottery. And I cry, said curly. This is so cool, because as you know. That patient ended up being a smiles on case in and you get credit for that because if you have been impatient. Or if you would've. Had A total of voice that you didn't care? We would allow asset opportunity and I and she. How do you know currently was across for me Ed? She was beaming. She was being. And how clearly you know! She's going to do future calls with patients. That gets this so so the Quick Chevy. Yes right. The next question. Getty I know my team. Members need foreign training. House the best way to train them. In this case, address suggest of all. We've got some resources for your. We're going to share those resources with you. And you know excited to share share those resources with you. One thing I would encourage you to do is have a breakout? T meeting with you and your Your Business Team members. Since Your Business members, it'd be answering the phone. And do some role playing just to role playing. you don't terms. Hey, if the patient asks, what are we say and again make a safe environment. They could have safe environment practice. You know if you were in Let's say in high school. You're in theater and you were. An actor and actress in theatric play or maybe later in life. You decided to do a community theater. Now most of US industry are. Doing that sort of thing that usually doesn't fit the people in Dentistry. But if you're part of a performance, does that performance just open to a live audience without any rehearsals? Would that ever happen. Even community theater I'm not talking to Broadway or anything riding theater. Do you think that they say okay? We're going to do this. Play on November second. Be Ready. No, they, what do they do? Do Rehearsals exactly exactly and every time. The director makes suggestions to make the performance even better by the time you do your performance, you're so ready for. You can't wait for opening night because you're totally prepared for. It I. Don't know about you. But one of the things that causes me discomfort. is to not be prepared. And I think that's true of a majority of people in the world. Right no, but when you're prepared, you're confident. You're ready. You can't wait. You don't do it because you're prepared and so the best training the best training. Is To do some work together. Make it a safe environment. Practice I'm generally not a fan of scripts. We're GONNA. Provide some. and you. Maybe you start with scripts until you get the flown till you get the cadence until you get the. Concept and then you can when you can then make them your own. You know after that but Yeah, that's in my opinion. That's the best way to do. phone training. Telephone training. and. We've got resources on a office hours. At in our dentistry community. We've got resources here in thriving Dennis. We've also got resources unless insurance dependence that we've got some specific lessen dependence podcast podcast episodes that are trying to show might benefit from. How do you answer the call? Do you take my insurance? We've got an episode on that list. The show notes and we've got another one of. How do we answer the question burnings patient? How come you're not taking my insurance anymore? Those are good training. Though short, they're typically fifteen minute episodes. They're short. You can listen to those and provide training that way. Well those are those are really good questions on near love those and I've enjoyed this episode. Hope you all enjoyed it. At Oakland got you tuned in to maybe some information you did know about you know converting those calls to actual appointments. So a this, this has been a fun and near, and if I may, as we kinda come in and finish line here. We talked about knowing your data. We talked about the chat by and both of those are services that you provide for us and lifestyles as part of becoming a Equa. And it's provided as part of the. There's no additional charges for those. Let me correct. Let me make sure I'm saying that right? That's correct near and there. No deaths Lord test. Is All inclusive. There's no additional charges period, so hey, if you're interested in millionaire on the calls, and if you're interested in a chat much I might politely we pay. We pay twelve hundred dollars a month. And a value on that is absolutely maze unlimited website content we've got. Mastering Seo through that that involves our lighthouse score that involves our nap profile that involves our complaints with the eat a expertise security trust update the compliance with Google. Ym Your money, your life that includes. You know helping US master reviews where we've got five hundred twenty eight five star reviews Thanks to your help and assistance with that includes our blad. It includes the data that we get to Google. Analytics stated that we get It's the best value so guys. If you're wants to help with this me, recommend from firsthand experience Equa a we'll put a link in the show notes that link will allow you to schedule a complimentary. Barclay strategy meeting with Lila Stone She'll go through your Google analytics with you. You'll learn information about your practice that you didn't know ahead of time. Normally, there's a nine hundred dollars charge for that. You're doing that free for a thriving Dennis show lessons. so near an for doing that. Will put a link in the show. Notes so narrow. Thank you and thank your team for all that you do help us. lex smiles and for our listeners. Let me take a minute. Thank you. We appreciate each and every one of you. By the way we've had a nice run of new reviews. New Google reviews on on driving dentist or excuse me new I tunes reviews for the data show. Thank you for those of you. The done it If if you haven't let me suggest three ways, you can support our work. Number one you can tell a colleague about the dentist show and direct new listeners to us. We appreciate that second thing you can do. is you could write a google review right I in Google Review, but I to go to I. Tunes Register Review. Thanks for all of you that have done that much appreciate. And the third thing that you can do, you can subscribe button. You can do that on itunes or Google play. or Whatever your directory of of a podcast of choices, they have a try, but it's subscribe, and that means every Wednesday. When we published new show, it'll be automatically uploaded of for your listening convenience on that note. Let me thank you for the privilege of your time until you. When you cry. Sure Oh. Sure and and. Don't let them know they have one. When you? Walk Guide. The her inside because Bain was soon they go. When you dream. As, big as Oh shit. Reynier dream by trump shoes. When you train three.
Doctors and nurses describe dread as COVID-19 cases risk overwhelming hospitals
"Hey parents if you're looking for some screen free family fun while you're staying home. Check out the story store podcasts. From cbc kids and cbc podcast new story store. Shorties are released every week. These short original and hilarious stories fit anywhere in your day from breakfast to bedtime. The story store available on smart speakers. or wherever. you get your favorite podcasts. This is a cbc podcast. Fires burning in so many different areas and right now is the time to get those under control a warning candidates chief public health officer. Dr teresa tam. Those fires are cases of covid rising across the country and manitoba on saturday. A new single day record with fifteen deaths alberta and scotch win both reported record high number of cases as well on saturday so did ontario with almost sixteen hundred new cases. That number dropped to just over twelve hundred. Yesterday and severe cases across the country are increasing over the past week there were on average every day more than fourteen hundred people being treated in hospitals. Some areas of canada have seen that they now had to scale back on routine medical procedures because the hospital beds getting four. Much concern about icu. Capacity you have specialized medical resources personnel. And they're getting exhausted as well. Dr darren markland knows exactly what dr tamas is talking about. He's an intensive care. Physician and enough at royal alexandra hospital in edmonton dr good morning. Good morning you're about to head into a shift at the icu this morning. What do you think you'll be walking into well after the weekend. I think we're going to have and very important meetings about what. We're going to resource and staffer unit today and for this week. That's a big sigh as you start to answer that question. Well i think like Most canadians Were all a little tired of this But we also see what's coming and there are cells in the air already. I mean the first one hit because of thanksgiving. And we're waiting for the next one to hit because of halloween and so when you see exponential growth without a plan brings a lot of anxiety in the frontline healthcare workers. So when you say that you're going to need to have meetings around resource allocation tell me. What does that mean. What sort of decisions are you to have to make in the next few hours. So we have had a surge plan set up from the beginning of the pandemic. But it's one of these plans that It looks good on paper but is dependent on staffing and resources and hard decisions and so up until this point we've been running a full icu. But able to turn the patients over so that everyone gets the care they need but within this week next week. We're going to have to expand the icu in start drawing resources away from the laws We've already cut down elective surgeries to bring in more resources and prevent admissions. But we're going to have to do more. We'll have to reduce more surgeries. I take on take on more staff from other units and that process will have to continue as it does You start to get stretched a little thin and as that process exceeds our capacity then you have to make more difficult decisions about things like who actually will benefit the most from care and that's called called triage and that's somewhere we don't want to get to if we don't have to do you feel that that's inevitable. I think there are things that we can do that. We have to do them quick. We have to do them rapidly and we have to initiate the process. Now we still have two weeks of surge even if we initiate things right now And so yeah. There can be some very tough decisions in the next week to two weeks in the intensive care unit serve pressure. Is there on on frontline stuff like yourself. I mean you said that we're all tired and we are certainly but you're right there and you're working long hours right you know at at at the the the the tip of the spirits they say so what kind of pressures they're on people like yourself it's interesting. There's different types of pressure. I remember during the first wave. We just kept waiting for things to hit us and when it didn't post the guilt that you know canadians were so supportive and we never hit that first wave because everyone did the right thing Now with that in our back pockets Everyone's a little more realistic. We're seeing it where we've been doing this for eight and a half months The hospital moves much slower than it used to because of isolation everything is an additional challenge putting on the appropriate. Ppe taking it off ensuring that you don't make a mistake because one mistake will lead to an outbreak which can paralyze your hospital. That is an incredible weight and then add it to our nursing and Medical staff and physicians who are also trying to keep the rest of their life in order with their kid going to school and dealing with intermittent Quarantines and sick family members at this point. We're really seeing morale in the hospital. Start to take a dip for yourself. I mean are you frightened about what you know is going to await you when you when you arrive at work today or tomorrow or later this week you know. Fear doesn't factor into it anymore. I think we just done it long enough. We've had enough experience with we know what's going on It's more a dread about seeing what's coming And not seeing a definitive clear plan to deal with it as of yet. It's kind of like the cassandra complex. We know this was coming forever. We predicted it or epidemiologist. Knew it was going to be an issue. And now it's here and following the predicted curves and yet the measures are half hearted and not effective. You mentioned nurses. I wanna bring darlene jackson into this conversation. She's president of the manitoba. Nurses union that province currently has the highest per capita rates of covert infections in the country darlene. Good morning to you morning. Tell us what's happening in the small city of steinbach. What are you hearing about the situation at the hospital her. This steinbeck is a small town. That's just a small city just about fifty kilometers to winnipeg and It has almost become an epicenter of Cova nineteen in manitoba We're hearing that nurses are Are working crazy overtime hours. Just to keep up. They are going out and triaging patients in their vehicles. in the circular driveway of the hospital just because The emergency department is so jam packed with patients. There's no bad there's nowhere to move them Patients out of emergency and in order to bring another patient in there. They're going to have to rearrange the whole department. So they're going out and triage union vehicles if the patient stable enough they stay in their vehicle at their unstable than they have to come back into the emergency department. Rearrange make a bad put a structure in a hallway to get that patient in and they are working with the same staff. They've always worked with and it just is It's actually a nightmare. In this problem right now. Sarah newfield is an er nurse at that hospital and cbc spoke with her listen to what she described. It has been mentally and emotionally and physically. Absolutely exhausting is pushed us past what we thought we were able to handle and reciting to question. How is this sustainable. Where short-staffed every day. I think everyone is feeling the weight and the pressure darlene jackson. Tell me more but what you're hearing from nurses of what it's like to work in that environment whereas you say there's not enough space in the hospital. You have to treat people in in a parking lot. Well i i will tell you that are exhausted. They're frustrated. We knew that wave two was going to be much bigger than wave one. We absolutely knew that but our government basically sat on their hands for the for the entire summer when we could have been encouraging retired nurses to come back to work stopping up doing everything we can to get ready for wave two and basically nothing was done so we've moved into way to a numbers are growing. We had almost five hundred new cases yesterday. We're up twelve percent Infection rate and nurses are exhausted. You and this province went out and bought equipment. I mean we bought hundred ventilators with the space to put an in. But we don't have anyone to man that equipment and that's the biggest issue. How concerned are nurses about contracting the virus themselves and they're right in this environment in a hospital that is full to bursting presumably vulnerable as well. Well we've had about one hundred nurses infected since it started the second wave. And you're right. They're very vulnerable. I talked to a nursing steinbach. Who tells me that When she goes to work in the er she gets one n ninety five mask and not mask is gonna last year for her twelve hour shifts. So what happens. Is that every time. You don don. On that nasa that you've been exposed to covid patients with the risk of exposure get tired. So if you're taking breaks your dawning and doping at least five times during your ship. So what's happening is nurses are now not taking that mask off to hydrate or have breaks because number one. They're so busy they don't have time for a break but there's also a huge fear they're going to expose themselves just taking up single mask off. How's it possible. I mean that sounds like something from the beginning of the first wave. And then i thought we as a nation had figured out how to get appropriate and adequate supplies of p. We're still seeing many many many facilities in many units that are monitoring and rationing and ninety five. We have an agreement with With our shared health in this province that nurses can do point of care risk-assessment Which means they basically make risks on every patient prior to contact with them and then they are supposed to decide based on that. What p p the the you but what. We're finding when a nurse does do. Pcr a and requested then ninety five in some facilities. They have to fill a questionnaire on why they need that And ninety five or answer multiple questions and justified out which no one has time for. We are crazy busy in this province. No-one has time to be justified. That they why they need in in ninety five for a patient. So we're dealing with those issues on a daily basis. And i'm and we're back with a brand new season of seat at the table. The podcast where we have in depth conversations with notable guests from media sports and pop culture. But this time we're capturing personal stories about the power of the black lives matter movement the urgency of this moment and really what it will take to move forward seat at the table is available now on. Cbc listen on spotify or wherever. You get your podcasts. i'm not. I add host of ideas in this age of click bait and online. Shouting ideas is a meeting ground for people who want to deepen their understanding of the world. Join me as we crack. Open a concept to see how it plays out over place and time and how. It matters today from the rise of authoritarianism to the history of cult movies. No idea is off. Limits ideas is on the cbc. Listen or wherever you find your podcasts. Dr collins has been listening in. She's the president of the canadian medical association. I want to bring her into this conversation. Dr good morning to you morning. It's interesting in hearing from our previous two guests. They both said we knew this was coming. We knew that the second way was going to be worse than the first wave. Why haven't we if we knew this was coming. Why haven't we been prepared. We'll certainly Your previous speakers have given gut wrenching stories about what's going on at the coalface and i think what this speaks to is that There hasn't been a lack of collaboration and coordination Our public health officials from p hack on down have been working hard They have been looking at evidence on a on a daily basis. vote where to go and how to manage this pandemic. But i think we're the breakdown has occurred. Is that that. Information has not necessarily been brought together in a collaborative way with with levels of government. And by that i mean federal provincial municipal rate out to the health authorities in the hospitals where Dr mark and and miss jackson and many other healthcare workers are working. And so there's not been a a coordinated plan to address what we're seeing now and moreover To act now to change the working situations for these Your your previous speakers. Dr collins if you take a look at the situation beyond the er icu's as we heard from. Dr markland are at a crisis. Point right now. What impact with the surgery. Cases have on the larger healthcare system for things like nonessential surgeries for diagnostic procedures. Yeah that's a great question and it's a great concern and and we actually saw that Poster the first wave or earlier this year At the canadian medical association. We just released a study that showed a marked increase in wait times for surgeries for example hip and knee replacements But we didn't look at. What we know intuitively is that the delay in patients presenting to Their healthcare providers Results in in a delay in diagnosis and treatment for some pretty serious medical conditions patients were then and we'll be now reluctant to present for the fear of of contracting kovin and in hospitals. Dr murkland pointed out You just have to move all your resources to caring for the most deal so elective surgeries will will be cut back. diagnostic procedures Emery that are important in in defining a health problem We'll be cutback. Resources have to be channel to caring for the most sick so this is going to have a far reaching effect. We know the backlog from the first wave is high. I suspect that it will be much greater given this second wave or or just. We're calling it we've seen in the last couple of days Growing concern from doctors across this country and experts calling for long strict lockdowns to get covid cases down to zero. Is that the right approach called. so what what. Cma what we're saying is that that we need to listen to the experts in this and and and public health P hack has been the bedrock of the foundation in the management of this pandemic or in providing the best or the most up-to-date recommendations. We know this virus changes. We know the science and the advice around changes so it's to listen to Whatever their best recommendations are and to recognize that there's not a one size fits all what what edmund to needs and what Northern alberta needs maybe are quite different. The atlantic bubble is a whole different situation So it it's what ever that community or that area needs to reduce its its community Presence of cove it and prevent it from getting into the hospital dr markland. What about for your as Dr collins said at the coal face Do we need not these little circuit breaker lockdowns. But something more significant to stamp this thing into the ground i think everybody's negotiating With both the public and the government right now because Our chief medical officer of health job is to try to balance the greater public need with the the medical issues that are going on and not been an issue for a while. The we had a of people put together a letter who Who argued for the circuit breaker Just so that we could at least get our contact tracing contact tracing were flying blind but that would not stop community progression and we would be at another point where resources would be overwhelmed even with a two week blocking If you look at what. They've done in melbourne They did a much more strict. Six week Lockdown and we're able to get to community spread almost enough. So what do you want. What do you want to see from the government. We asked to speak with the albert to health minister who wasn't available for an interview but said that the government is is reluctant to have lockdown. Because that would end the government's words throw people out of work indiscriminately. So what do you want to see from your government. At the very least i need two weeks At best six I need an honest. I need an honest fact based dialogue with the health minister so that we can actually know where we're going. I don't need half-measures darlene. Jackson for you. The minister of health manitoba also not available to speak with us this morning. But what do you want. See from your government. Well we are right now in a circuit breaker two weeks and maybe extended to another four weeks. And i sincerely hoping extended to another four weeks. I know that our ice to user drowning and our contact tracing is so far behind me. And we're never going to get on top transmission if we can't catch up on the contact tracing and those public health nurses are working hours and hours overtime and we can't catch up so i think we need to shutdown dr collins. What about from the federal government. We should also mention. We asked to speak with the federal health minister. Patty hi do. We didn't hear back but what can be done on a national level as calling for. Is that all governments. Come together to come up with the best path forward to protect the health of all canadians. And at this point in time most specifically we need to protect the health and the ability of our frontline healthcare workers to care for these patients and for other patients no matter what's implemented as dr mclaughlin said we've got at least another two weeks of this ahead of us and but but those people working those emergency rooms in those. Icu need to know that. Someone's got their back that they have hope in the last minute will go to you. What is your message to canadians right now. I think we've done this before. I think we could do right thing before. I know we can do the right thing now. i know we need more support for people out there for elderly and people who are marginalized. But if we don't start doing the right thing and being civil and coming together on this we will see deaths and loss of family members like we have never seen before At least in the last several decades it needs to be done now and you optimistic that we will do the right thing you say can but will we do the right thing. That depends on it. Depends on every single person out there. and de-politicize this issue of covert. I think is the first step is good luck this morning. You're about to step into a very busy situation. And i appreciate you taking some time before your shift to talk to us. Thank you my pleasure. Doctor dr collins thank you very much thank you. And darlene jackson. Our best to your members and thank you you. Dr collins is the president of the canadian medical association. Doctor darren markland intensive care physician and in a frolic at the royal alexandra hospital in edmonton just about to begin. His shift in the icu. And darlene jackson president of the manitoba nurses union for more. Cbc podcasts go to cbc dot ca slash podcasts.
Documents: government played catchup as COVID-19 threat mounted
"This is a CBC podcast. Hello Jamie puzzle as Canada. Continues to fight to flatten. The Corona virus curve. More questions are being raised about. How prepared the federal government was to deal with this pandemic. That's been further called into question by a series of government briefing notes which show that well into March. The government believed Canada was at low risk free Kovic nineteen outbreak. The documents also revealed by early February health officials already knew the global market for masks was tightening fast. Canada was only able to scoop up a modest amount. Jp tasker is my colleague at the CBC's Parliamentary Bureau. He's been looking through these documents so I wanted to speak to him about what he's learned. And how those early government responses got us to where we are now. This is from firm. Hey JP great to have you back pay. Jamie thanks for having me back. Don't look even digging through these documents. So let's start with them. What are they. What are these documents yes? So a whole whack of documents were tabled with the House of Commons Health Committee. Last week we are meeting today. Entirely virtually for the purpose of receiving evidence concerning matters related to the government's response to the caveat nineteen pandemic The committee had ordered the production of these planning documents Just before they rose earlier last month they want to get a handle on what the government was actually doing in January and February to plan for this Cova nineteen crisis so these are briefing notes prepared by bureaucrats across a number of departments in the federal government and the Public Health Agency of Canada Health Canada Transport Canada the National Defense Department And really their documents that reveal a government that was slow to act a government that was relying on federal public health officials that routinely downplayed the severity of the virus who said up until March ten. Th that the risk of transmission in Canada was low. The risk is low because we don't have incredible community transmission and Dr. Tamas very clear that when that begins to happen we will know even when the case load in. China was exploding even while travel between our two countries was continuing unabated really for weeks weeks weeks and they maintained all along that the risk of transmission here in Canada was low even when there was a this was starting to impact countries beyond China Iran in Italy and into the US right March tenth. That was just over one month ago just to put that in perspective. So I wanted to do this. Chronologically with you Let's start in January right so we're in mid-january what we're bureaucrats telling. Health Minister Patty. Hi Do then about how this virus was spread and how much of a risk it might pose to Canadians. Maintaining that the risk to Canadians was low and they were downplaying media reports out of Wuhan Obey Province in China. You know the hot spot where we know this Corona virus or at least we think we know where this corona virus started and they were putting reports that stated that this was likely being transmitted through human to human contact. This is being spread. Easily between people in Wuhan. Human to human transmission has not been ruled out. And that's a problem because this week marks. The official beginning of China's busiest travel season. Chinese health officials confirmed the virus could spread so they were trying to warn ministers not to get caught up in some of the media reports that were coming out of China. That suggested this could be much more dangerous than we thought it to be. You know they were saying that. Let's be careful. Let's follow the World Health Organization's advice on all this but the thing is as early as January twenty eight. Th the World Health Organization was describing the wrist to be high at the global level very high in China but also high for the rest of the globe but the bureaucrats here in Canada maintained. It was still low. I'm declaring a public emergency of international concern. Changing it does not change it all Canadians Obviously It is low because partly Travel to inform the effect of greed affected region from China's becoming more difficult. And of course we have a very sophisticated system here in Canada which has been noted by the way by the World Health Organization the reluctant to impose travel restrictions reluctant to impose airport screening on inbound. Chinese pastors reluctant to demand mandatory quarantine for passengers. Arriving from these global hotspots. Because they said that just wouldn't work and really what they had to count on his limiting its impact once it got here. Why did they say that? They didn't think it would work. Screening at airports side targeting passengers coming from China did without ever explained in any of these documents. Well he just didn't think he'd be effective and they didn't think that because global travel is so global is you know it's there are so many people arriving from around the globe every single day in this country. They didn't think it would be prudent to have to put in some really stringent measures at the border. And they're also really worried that it would overwhelm public health officials here in this country. They thought if they had to quarantine people arriving from China the public health officials just wouldn't have the capacity to monitor them so they really were just relying on people being good citizens you know to avoid contact other people to follow up with their medical doctors. That are health professionals. If they had any symptoms of this disease they're handing out some pamphlets Starting in February but they were reluctant to go that step further. It's interesting you talk about this around this time end of January. I know we had our first case here. In Canada January twenty fifth his fifties had flown out of Wuhan on. The twenty-first arrived in Toronto on the twenty second and was in Sunnybrook. Hospital was symptoms on the twenty third patient was detected and immediately put in isolation and I remember that the discourse around was very much that Canada has this under control That we test for this virus because we had the sequence from China nineteen other patients are being tested for the new strain in Ontario alone but officials say the risk of an outbreak in Canada remains low. And I think there are risks of contracting other viruses. That are here in Canada that we know a lot about that. That are much higher. I also remember around this time on January twenty second Doctor Kamran Khan and infectious disease specialist Here in Toronto came on the show and he was actually really concerned about what he was seeing in China including the fact that there was a proliferation of the virus. Either two weeks after the market closed so to me that basically said okay. The outbreak has moved into a new phase. It's no longer animals to humans. It's now humans to humans And so for me. That was the point of This is kind of the real deal here. And there was a case popping up in the United States and I distinctly remember him saying that there were a lot of parallels here to stars in that he was already at this level where he was very concerned because it seemed like there was transmission between humans. And that that transmission where we didn't totally know at that time you know how infectious it was. It seemed like it was relatively infectious. You know this is rapidly propagating person to person the dispersion to other parts of mainland China. So there were there. Were people in this country sounding the alarm bell around this time right Jesse any of that in the documents will yeah just to that. Sars point we know that the death toll of covert nineteen surpassed SARS as early as February ninth. I mean it came about seven hundred. Seventy three people killed from SARS By February ninth. There was over eight hundred for covert nineteenth. We knew that this was a deadly disease very early on but no in these documents there are not many public health officials. Warning that it could get to that level there is almost no instance of pandemic planning in these documents. It's mentioned once early in a call on February tenth between Patty. Hide you and the provincial and territorial health ministers. She suggests that the Public Health Agency of Canada is working on some pandemic scenarios. Or if this escalates. They're going to have some plans in place but she doesn't actually mention those on. The calls doesn't actually brief the provincial and territorial ministers as to what the feds are working on at that point and we know that that's one of the things we learned from SARS that there was not good communication between the federal government and the provinces when this thing hit back in two thousand two in two thousand and three there wasn't great communications between the various levels of government in this country and it seems that that continued in this case as well because the provinces are asking minister. Heidi okay what are we GONNA do? Esl How we going to plan for this and there doesn't seem to be a lot of details other than to say. Oh we're working on it. There's something that might be coming if this does evolve. Okay I just wanted to talk about a peace came recently from her colleague. Murray Brewster Also talking about information that the Canadian government was getting from a unit within Canada's military intelligence agency around this time back in January. Can you tell me a little bit more about that? Yes so there's a medical intelligence cell in the Canadian Forces Intelligence Command Unit tracks pandemic in global health concerns looking at them through the Lens of how they affect military deployments. So this sell you know was monitoring the progress of the outbreak in China. And they thought that it could be a lot worse than they were expecting at that time and they had that intelligence ready for people in government. It's reasonably clear. The Canadian warnings made it to the chief of the defence staff and the defense minister and they had that intelligence ready for people in government. And it doesn't seem to have made much of a difference on how they were planning on responding to covert nineteen did become increasingly more concerning and of course we know some reporting out of the United States Like a similar unit in the US as you mentioned was talking about how China's leadership knew. The outbreak was out of control and the crucial information was being withheld from foreign governments and public health agencies at this time. I know this according to reporting from ABC apparently made its way into like trump's intelligence briefings in January. And I guess the idea here is that these agencies normally do share information between each other but it wasn't until late January that president trump made his first public comments about this virus saying that he wasn't at all worried about it and that he had it totally under control so there are questions around got his well. Obviously I WANNA move into February as reports continued to come in more and more cases all over the world. How does the federal government respond so really the focus at this point is getting people out of Wuhan and out of China so they start to send all these rescue planes couple of them to the region to repatriate them to bring them home to bring Canadians back from this hot spot hoping to have this families back on on Friday we understand for loved ones here in Canada? Performance over there that it's extremely difficult. All of government approach at this time is really focused on them. It's also focused on getting Canadians. Who WERE STUCK ONBOARD? The diamond Princess cruise ship home so they sent a chartered plane to pick those up and bring them home by mid February but they also started to turn their attention to. Maybe we should do something about all these passengers coming from China. Who are arriving at Canadian. Airports maybe we should do something more than just. Have an information screen up in the arrivals hall of Drew Pearson Airport. Maybe we should take this to the next level. And what they did is they started asking all the inbound ooh Bay travelers to provide some personal contact information that started on February nineteenth But what's most troubling? Is that between January. Twenty seconds so the end of January and February eighteenth before this contact tracing Was implemented at our airports fifty eight thousand travelers from China arrived here in Canada and two thousand of them were from Ebay province but only sixty eight of the people who arrived in that time were pulled aside for a secondary screening with the quarantine officer and only three only three. A fifty eight thousand travellers were actually flagged for a medical exam and it now. It's revealed these documents at the secondary screening. Was Essentially. Another question on those little kiosk. When you come to the airport you know they are asking. Did you arrive from WHO Bay province? Yes no it does seem from what you're saying. According to these documents that you know at this point they're just sort of talking about how to manage what they think is probably inevitable here and still like a low risk. So are they talking about that in the documents or are they talking about how to prepare for the cases are they talking about whether or not? They have enough personal protective equipment for healthcare workers. Like masks you know. What are they talking about about how prepared there is so patty? Hi Do jumps on a call with provincial and territorial counterparts in that month and the bureaucrats know ahead of this call then. She's going to be pressed by the provinces on the personal protective equipment bit of all this because the PPA is just so important to the frontline workers but the public health agency of Canada had warned her at the time that they really didn't have a lot of success procuring. Any of this people eat. It was very difficult to get their hands on those end. Ninety five mask get surgical masks to add to the national stockpile. They were saying that what the issue was is that industry at the time were staggering the deliveries of these mass because of the global demand. But it doesn't show that there was much of an effort made on the part of government to do what we now know that we're doing now starting up. Some domestic supply chains to produce some of these things. Ottawa also says Canadian companies are making PP from locally sourced materials like construction industry house. Wrap an automobile air bags to keep our frontline workers safe and care for Canadians with Kovic. Nineteen we need. A sustainable stable supply of these products aren't needs making limit. Home is there. Wasn't there obviously again was not that sense of urgency. To get those end ninety five and surgical mask stockpiles built up so when she jumped on the call with the provinces she mentioned that there's been a modest amount of masked procured in the last number of weeks And keep maintaining up until February twenty six that the risk is low. At this point we know there are seventy eight thousand Cases in mainland China but the issue too is there was no testing or very little testing. They only done four hundred sixty one tests by February seventeenth. We now know there's been tens of thousands of cases and all the scientists pointing to widespread. Testing is the best way to stop the spread of this disease where we can find people in isolate them right but they did not ramp up those efforts they were having trouble with the P P procurement and they just were not running enough tests and of course we know now You know efforts made to secure P. Of course like you know. Bauer is making face shields hearing Canada but also our colleague. David Cochran has the story about how we've essentially been able to create our own supply line in China. We just you know. Basically made this a priority and move diplomats around China and now we're starting to get those masks and and the equipment that is needed. You know you mentioned and February in all the cases in China at this time but you know. Italy was also exploding around this time. Eight hundred twenty cases twenty deaths. Bayardo gave the hope next week. They managed to solve the problem because the restaurants are empty. The cafes are empty. Trams and trains are empty. I don't know how long we can cope with the situation. My Iran had one hundred and thirty nine cases and February nineteen. That's the deputy health minister. He's got the virus and he was involved in the most extraordinary press conference here. He is on the left taking his glasses off mopping his brow looking decidedly unwell. He was telling those who'd gathered that he doesn't believe in quarantine that is an old measure from World War. One that doesn't work here. The man on the stage may have had a view on that. There was a lot of news at the time. I remember that you know the the Iranian government was downplaying what what's happening the WHO upgraded the risk of the viruses global threat to very high. And I think this is a reality check for every government on the planet. Wake up get ready. This may be on. Its Way and you need to be ready so in these documents. Are you seeing? Government officials talking about the situation outside of China particularly in Italy in Iran. Yes they document the number of people that had covert nineteen abroad so they have those numbers available the minister to review but there isn't a lot of analysis and there isn't a lot of discussion as to what the other countries are doing in terms of preparedness and what lessons we could learn from them to apply here in Canada because we know by February twenty third. The South Korean president had put his country on the highest alert Taiwan. I mean after all. This is said. We're going to look to Taiwan as the country. That did this asked because they took such decisive action. You know they were ones that were really you know they start screen arrivals coming from China coming from Iran coming from Italy coming from other parts of Asia you know. They had the comprehensive testing rolled out. They had detailed contact. Tracing in these documents late February early March is anybody talking about quarantines they do. They mentioned it as a way to address passengers arriving from China but they rule it out. They thought it would be best for people just to stay at home and do it without having to use the mechanisms of government. They didn't want to put that pressure on the public health resources in this country they. They just thought the best way to do. It was handled some of these pamphlets. Tell them you know you should sell vice late at home for fourteen days. But there was nothing backing that up. They weren't enforcing it through law. They were enforcing it through regulation. They were hoping that people would follow that guidance. So let's move then to what feels like an one eighty right like he was a government that for many months was talking about you know need for widespread quarantines no need for closing borders and then all of a sudden we start to see around middle of March essentially like an about face right on March sixteenth the federal government closes the border to all foreign nationals except Americans. We assured you that as the situation evolved our response would evolve to as the virus continues it spread. We've decided to take increasingly aggressive steps to keep you and your family safe candidate in the US. Also close our borders. Domestic flights are restricted in. What does that say to you? I mean I wanNA take you back to March thirteenth when Dr Teresa. Tam Recommends that Canadians not pursue non-essential travel outside of Canada. This means we during vacations going to sporting and entertainment events large international conferences on that very day. The prime minister is asked to bow closing the border with China and. He says that we didn't go that route. We were able to manage it in a way that that allowed for control and a non non spread of the virus that gives us confidence and March sixteenth. Everything changes so it's it's you get whiplash you know when you think about all this because the advice changes so dramatically in such a short time frame. It really is cause for concern. Why did the Public Health Agency of Canada? Not feel the need to warn the government and the ministers responsible for implementing policy earlier than this. Jp How public health experts Seeta may maybe those? That aren't sort of in the center of the decision. Making Nexus how they responded to these documents and two candidates preparedness for this crisis in in recent days. Yeah so we've heard people come out. Who said we were just not prepared. We were caught flat-footed Sandy Buckman. Who's the president of the Canadian? Medical Association came out last week. And said you know we were just not ready for a pandemic? The federal government did not prepare this country to deal with this sort of thing. I see how prepared we are militarily. You know our army is ready to go at any time. We have adequate equipment The same should be true for dealing with the pandemic. We didn't start pulse efficient equipment. We weren't ready and hence the incredible effort. That's being made right now. The the front line the people who were working on the front lines of doctors and nurses and the people that were dealing with some of these early cove in nineteen cases were telling provincial health officials. We're just not prepared. Were scared so they are definitely making it known that they along had concerns about the whole planning process and the federal government. The federal public health officials were kind of turning a blind idol that maintaining this fiction which we know is a fiction now that the risk to Canadians was low. Although I you know I think it is probably fair to mention here that we took some very aggressive measures in Mitch March but we haven't seen our hospitals overrun like other countries at this at this point and I think we just we don't know yet but it does seem like we have had some success at least with these social distancing measures particularly in provinces like BBC. I'm starting to see some some Glimmers of hope if we will that with flattened note we are increase. Our trajectory has has leveled off a bit Although I think what is emerging in Canada right now which is very clear is is the the tragedy that's happening and long-term care homes now fifty percent of the deaths that we're seeing. This country are from long term care homes. It feels like that issue in and of itself are so much to them into any questions to ask their not as citizens. What kind of accountability do you think we need to be asking for from the Federal Government even in the midst of this ongoing crisis you know? Some people might say look like this. Is the government trying to make decisions in real time? This is sort of the fog of war right easy to kind of sit here. In hindsight at those days the numbers of Canadians infected were still low but we saw the potential that we are in right now and we started to act early. We can say safely. Is that in January. If we had told everybody to stay at home and not go to work that there would have been quite a lot of Disbelief by Canadians. But this would be an appropriate measure absolutely hospitals haven't been overrun and things aren't looking as grim as they might be in some other jurisdictions but go back to Taiwan they have to vote three hundred seventy six cases because they took aggressive action. We're what well over twenty thousand cases I think it's important. You know when I wrote this story last week there were a number of people inside and outside of government who were critical you know. They say this undermined public health response. You know somehow suggesting this sort of reporting is unpatriotic or or just not being very helpful. I say it's the opposite. I think stories like these. They should encourage or officials to change. Course if necessary to be more dynamic in the response to this global pandemic the people who lead us into all this are the ones that were trusting to lead us out and I think that has that they have to change. Course if changing course is necessary in stories like this illuminate. What happens when you don't take early action when you don't take action when it might be necessary to do so you can have deadly consequences? We can lose so many of those folks you were talking about in long term care homes because we didn't adequately prepare for those scenarios because they didn't get that P and made February because they didn't have masks and gloves on hands for the workers in those long term care homes. We're seeing what happens when they don't and so. I think it's necessary that we shed light on this sort of thing. All right cheap tasker. Thank you so much as always. Thanks Amy all right so before we go today. J. P. of I spoke about issues here in Canada with testing some news on that front on Monday health. Canada has now approved a new rapid test for the corona virus and it can produce results in under an hour. The test is made by an Ottawa based company. And it's expected to alleviate pressure on labs because uses this hand-held device it's also expected to be one of the solutions for testing kit shortages. The head of the company that produces these tests says they'll be able to ship ten thousand a week now and in three to four months. One hundred thousand to two hundred thousand. He says. The company is being inundated with requests including from private companies who want to test employees as the facilitate back toward plans. We'll keep you posted on this front. That's all for today though. Thanks so much for listening to front burner and talk. T- soon for more. Cbc PODCASTS GO TO CBC DOT CA slash podcasts.
April 6: Just when he needs them the most
"Hey parents if you're looking for some screen free family fungal. You're staying home. Check out. The story store podcasts from CBC kids and CBC podcast. Shorties are released every week. These short original and hilarious stories fit anywhere in your day from breakfast to bedtime. The story store available on smart speakers. Or wherever. You get your favorite podcasts. This is a CBC PODCAST. Hello? I'm Carol off good evening. I'm Chris Bowden. This is as it happens. The podcast edition Pat Tonight just when he needs them. The most a newfoundland man says he's been shunned by his community after his girlfriend's funeral was linked to the spread of Kovic nineteen. Put to the test Patty. Hi Do says her. Government is doing everything it can to fight the virus but questions remain about when they'll deliver widespread testing to track it in Canada. Come from the way newfoundland premier invokes the lessons of history and hit musical to deliver a message to the president of the United States. Stay or go. Our guest wants to move her mother out of an auto on nursing home over fears of a future. Kovic nineteen outbreak. But if she does she risks losing a spot that took years to get. He's big on the web a UK man goes viral after he and a friend cheer up children in their luck downtown by running through the streets dressed as spiderman. And Ah Bats three rules of real estate echo-location echo-location echo-location from our daily dip into the as it happens archives the story of an unwanted flying visitor who mistook our guest home for an open house and became an Internet sensation. Due to the filmmakers desperate cries of ketchum dairy happens the Monday edition radio that can admit to just this one bat habit. Shannon Harris needs the support of his small town more than ever right. Now the man from Buckles Newfoundland is mourning. The death of his girlfriend who died of complications from diabetes but instead of sympathy Mr Harris says he's being shunned that's because his girlfriend's funeral in mid March is among a number of gatherings that have been linked to the provinces cove nineteen cases we reached Shannon Harris in buccaneers Newfoundland Shannon. First of all. I'm sorry for your loss. If you girlfriend think you. Can you tell us about the news that you got that the for your girlfriend may have helped? Spread the corona virus in different. How did you feel about that? I was shocked. I was you know I just come home to resume normal life and try to get back into routine of everything as much as I cooled but it was a later rate. I I'd already been here three days. I got up. I was in a good mood. I put on my coffee. I sat down and I was getting ready to check my messages. And there was one message from friend of mine at store which was a odd message and it was like being being and to message in a row. Hey Man can you call me so I was like okay? This is weird lake and so when I call he was like hey man the were you at channels funeral and I was like yeah man. You know it's like well something on the Internet that you should probably see and I was like Yeah I'm getting a bunch of messages year now on talking to you so I guess I'm GonNa have to find out what's on the go so they'll give you a heads up. It's bad news. He's like there was a Kobe case. Confirmed that the funeral and until we oh sure you can't come to the store. Okay man thanks for letting you know. This is your local grocery store and that wasn't the only reaction that you got. You got some pretty nasty ones as well. Didn't you absolutely yeah it was turmoil in town? Everybody was scared that I was after bringing this virus into town and spreading it around amongst the community. It's a it's a completely isolated community. There's literally no way for anything to get here unless came you know travel. How many people in Buchan Scott covered nineteen knowing that people from funeral got it and you tested negative? But does that change anything telling people you tested negative. It didn't that I there was so much. I guess malice and discontent here like. I don't know they thought that I didn't have any community. Spirit will say. They thought that I didn't have the community's best interests that hurt so it wouldn't hurt me to hurt them. But why why were you to blame for what had happened at the funeral home? I wasn't that's that like. Why did they feel that you were to blame? I? I don't know I really don't know 'cause it's spread from a social media post to community knowledge to community discontent is now. I guess there's no now known to be one hundred and forty three cases linked to that funeral home. That's about seventy five percent of of all of the cases goal and you're in your community. They feel. Somehow you brought it in. I guess so. No one in your family has because come down with it. No and what about in your girlfriend's family Eight of her immediate family tested positive and Knowing the last positive result came back yesterday afternoon. Does your girlfriend's family blame you as well. No not at all. So it's just a community. Did you think that by now? Things might have gone back to normal since you had the negative response uncovered. It's just mixed mixed emotions from people like some people you know they talk to me like the normally would and other people just kinda stare at me as if on STU coburn plague your your girlfriend died of non covert related illnesses. She had right. Have you got a chance to grieve given all this? I head grieved during the week of the funeral procession and it was it was a beautiful beautiful service like. I mean it was amazing. We had people singing and and it was just. It was a tremendous sendoff for such a beautiful spirit. And has all. This overshadowed your attempts to remember your girlfriend. It'll never overshadow my remembrance of over at all I mean for past twenty years. She's been born of if not my best friend in the whole wide world cesary. Just finally what what would you say? What advice would you give to other communities Who when an outbreak like this happens. What would you? What would you like people to understand? Get all the facts of the story before you attack the Person Family. I mean like I. I'm really I'm reeling. Still from all of it and I mean up until I got the last call from the Department of Public Health to say okay. You've been completely clear I haven't been able to relax because I mean at that point. They were still telling me that I was. I could be contagious. Or It's been so scary. I mean and we got so many friends that have been affected and their children are affected. I it's just it's like the worst ripple effect you could ever imagine from one thing. That should have been a celebration of life so I guess what I want. Want people to take away from. It is consider everybody else before you make an assumption Shannon. I'm sorry all this has happened to you in the wake of what happened to your girlfriend. I appreciate you telling us the story thank you. Thank you Shannon. Harris recently found out that a number of Cova nineteen cases have been linked to his girlfriend's funeral. In mid March we reached Mr Harris in Buttons Newfoundland. As cases of Kovic nineteenth continued to rise across Canada. The virus seems to be spreading fastest and most lethally in long term care centers last week Teresa. Tam Candidates Chief Public Health Officer said that more than half of all Cova nineteen deaths in have been among residents of seniors. So it's not surprising that some people are moving their loved ones out of those residences to take care of them at home. Marta Sharpei would like to do that for her mother. Lois Shark as a resident of the extended care medics home in Ottawa. But moving lowest out of the home is not a simple decision for her daughter to make. We reached Marta. Sharpei in Ottawa. How's your mom doing I you know what I can't really tell you that because I haven't been allowed to go see her From what I understand from the home and they always say she's doing okay no matter what you know no matter what. The conditions are. I am grateful in a way that she's not fully cognitive of what's going on. Because then she she would panic if she understood everything that was going on Concerned about my father because he does understand everything is getting extremely anxious. And he's getting extremely lonely We still you know I would still like to take my mother out and have her stay with my father until this whole thing is over. Why do you think it would be safer are better off if you move to out of that home because my father doesn't go anywhere she stays in the apartment all the time so basically she would be? You know quarantined with my dad and his apartment. And there's a lot of stuff Where my mother is saying right now. And there's a lot of patients. I think that all it's GonNa take as one person coming in that has the covert nineteen and they're just going to be able to pass. It's the entire home whereas if she's with my dad it's easier to control his where he's right across the street. He lives in an apartment building right across the street from another home. And what would you? What would he need to do in order to take care of your mom in his apartment? Well my brothers have already discussed it. And we'll be taking care of their food and it's like that and dropping it off My Dad did take care of my mother before she was placed in long term care. So there's nothing really that he has to do. I mean he'd be helping her. You know get outta bed which he did before you know reminding her to take her medication as I said food is something that I'll take care of with my brothers but that's about it. She is like she is able to walk around. She's mobile. She uses a walker but they're not allowed to go anywhere so it's not like it going for these long walks and what are your mother's go conditions. Actually it's all time Now Y- has there been any reported cases of covered nineteen in that in the facility. Where she's staying. No and I've been checking daily and there hasn't been any but I also don't want to wait until there is what we know that there have been at least forty long-term care and retirement homes in Ontario where there's been an outbreak of covered nineteen and there have been about forty forty deaths so far. I I know every time I turn on the news all right listen to it in the morning. I I can't believe what's going on and I can't believe that we're still being told that we're not allowed to take her out otherwise she will lose her bed. You are allowed to take her out. But with conditions what are they. I sent an email. The conditions are that if I take roach she'd be listed as discharged and when I wanted to put her back in again then we would have to put her name back on a waiting list and although they said that they will be giving priority to patients. Who Were there before? It's still going to be a waiting list. And what would that mean for you to have her back on the waiting list it would just? My Dad is able to take care of my mom for a couple of months but long term I. I just don't think he would be able to and I think it would be very stressful. My mom was put back on a waiting list. And we have to go through the process. Again Yeah we agreed to keep paying for my mother's room like on a monthly basis. And they still said No. That wasn't that's not what it was about. It was about the fact that once we take roaches considered discharged. You agree to pay the fees everything that the cost of having that room. If without her in it. And why do you understand that? They think that is not the. They still won't accept that. Well that's what they say but they did send me an email saying that If you take them out. They're considered to be discharged so even though if I wanted to keep paying for Haram that wouldn't matter. They would still lift her as discharged and would give her bed to somebody else. That these aren't this is not necessarily just the the policy of this nursing home where this long term care home. This is the policy of the Interior Ministry. Is that not the case? Yes it is when all of this happened last week I had heard that if you have a loved one a long term. Care that if you're able to take them out you should be considering taking them out. So that's what started this and it wasn't until I didn't think I'd be told no I thought okay. The worst case scenario is they're going to say well can you keep up the payments to hold her spot and as soon as I brought that up. They said No. She's if you just if you take her. She's considered discharged and she has to go through the whole process again. Ah Understanding is that the reason why the government has this policy is because of the shortage of beds the shortage of of places for seniors and for people needing those that care and those homes. And that's why they regard anyone who leaves as being discharged. Do you think that's unreasonable? I think in this day and age. Yes this is something. Nobody's had to deal with before everybody is making considerations employers or let in our place work from home. There's all kinds of things that are happening and I think in this time yes I do think it's it's pretty unreasonable. The other thing here about is how short staffed they are. Well if I can free up somebody then that would be a bonus but they don't say it like that and I also know that if you take your if you take your parents out for say for a summer holiday or for a vacation. They're not discharged. You're allowed to take them out for a short period of time except now. So what are you going to do now? Honestly I don't know I'm just waiting for the day that I got a call or I see on the news that it has broken out in her home because I don't know what other steps I can do You know I've gone to the media. I've talked to my to my brothers about what we should do. And the point is is that we really don't have a choice right now but to do what they say. And that's if we take we have to listen to his church then just finally the the home the the facility where your mother is staying. They say that for so they have had not. They haven't had an outbreak but they also say that they believe that. It's the best environment for you for loved ones and they can be cared for by professional staff with experience in infection control an isolation procedures that. I'm reading from the letter and so do not do not have any face questions facility to to provide that. I've had a few problems with where my mother's seeing my mother shares her room with somebody else so I don't know how they can you know. Do the quarantine and social distancing. I don't think that they were quick to deal with this. They're not equipped to deal with it. When it's flu season everybody in the home seems to spread it around like crazy and everybody gets sick. It doesn't exactly make me feel very confident during this particular pandemic that they're going to be able to handle it if it does happen there. I appreciate speaking with you thank you I hope. Your Mom's okay. Thank you for saying that. Okay Take Care Bye. Marta sharp as trying to move for mother out of her nursing home to lessen the chances of contracting cove in nineteen but if the mother leaves she risked losing her place at the home. We're reached Marta. Sharpie in Ottawa. Maybe you're arguing with your significant other about which season of Ru Paul's drag race to rewatch. Maybe your kids are hugging your computer when you need it for work or to watch Paul's drag race and if you're on your own maybe the fort you made out of rolls of toilet. Paper is no longer comforting but no matter how fed up you are with being cooped up in your house. It could be worse. There could be a bad in there with you. Catch catch him. Jerry catching the backs go. How you're doing a great job there. Extend up there and how to get a mockery of you got the dog. After a behind the drama captured video released by Thai Fleming of Bali. Mccullough Ghent Ireland three years ago a bat had gotten into the Fleming House and tug was urging his father dairy to take action and criticizing his mother. Maureen for her inaction. Tonight we go back to September twenty seventeen when Carol spoke with the Creator and the star of that video from our archives. Here's a conversation with tiger and dairy Fleming tag. I want to start with you. Has Anyone in your town of Bali mcgilla. Gut Ever received this much attention at no one. I put my colleague on the map. I say it'll be business by everyone. Know visit fast as I am. It's crazy home ad it's gotten and you mentioned Ba- dad that's what you're calling your dad dairy your son's calling you. Dad's what are people going? Are you picking up that name bat? Dad Yes I sure am when people are coming into the office where I walk just saying. Oh the guy back man see around. This is all because of this crazy video tags made and posted and so ty describe how the Back Garden into your house. Oh my God it was absolutely not so. My mom was doing the ironing in the kitchen and she went out the back door and she left the back door open and the best came straight in and then ran out to the hall and started looking through the window and see left the bathroom there myself from my dad. My immediate reaction was to take the phone out and start videoing and putting on snapchat and then I hit behind another door in the utility and I just didn't my dad one on one with the best and it just was pure chaos. We're only after getting a poke and we have a week and in the midst of the whole new. My Dad catch the best. The pope his business on the floor. My Dad was in my football shower and he sucks up his knees and it was just absolutely crazy. You you couldn't write. It was comedy now. I just want you said that your first instinct was to pick up the phone and start filming. Wh why wasn't your first instinct to pick up something and try to catch the Bat along with your dad. It was just 'cause I'm always videoing. I'm always doing snaps. I'm assuming Kombi Sketches but my dad and I seen in my sauce and with the socks of his knees and I was like and he was he. Just gotTa Tito a small little t tell you. He wasn't going to catch the bath with that. And I just said Oh my God I gotta get this on as I was doing. I was trying to help promote where I think. I was hindering more than anything I was. He couldn't catch him. I was just trying to get him to get him and get a motor home safely and like my mom looking I. It was just. It was hilarious. Like the whole thing now. Dairy did you. Do you think your son could have helped you. Did you need his help at any point? Let me tell you. My son was scared of the MOM. Oh have sufficed. And that's why he ran behind door uh-huh so he wasn't going to be much help to you anyway. No I haven't cracked but it was right or is that he's interested. He's dead inside like he was. He was petrified reading. You know so. He's he's dead cost like I have to protect the family. Like we thought might be back and you are the man of the house and you were protecting particularly families across even risk in my own life. Dairy your son's teasing you that you picked up a tea towel to start that and cognitive beginning it would be easier like grab with a small 'cause it might my on my first priority like would not have creature that can fly. I think forty miles per hour so I wouldn't let them that's-that's by the time we got a bit bigger so I didn't think for the Bechtel and that's how you find the card now. Okay so you both mentioned besides you and your son and the Bat. There was another character here. Which was your mom and your wife and so and what we can hear in the video. You see what is it? What is it you're saying to your Mum Tag? I was like stop looking through the window. Maureen and wounded back through the window and she says well. How does she putting Your Dad off? He was there and he was looking at her watching him trying to capture the best and I say he was under pressure because the back was panicking around the place so I was went over and I said well you back away from the window please now. Can I point out to you that you were in behind another window doing exactly the same thing as what your mother was doing? I know that's a common thing. Why was he giving them when he was worse than her exactly? So what's your answering that? When my answer was I I was I was I was afraid. Of course that I was trying to man up myself. I wasn't working I. I was behind the door and my mom is behind the door. And my dad was the only fella who took on the back and say they removed him all right. So you mentioned there okay. One more character. We'll introduce into this movie. Which is your little puppy. Basil Basil's where'd you get? That name is after Fawlty Towers was on comedy show. So what dairy what was the? What was the puppy? Doing through all of this is why. I actually had forgotten about the puppy to stage like with dependable. And so I think you're supposed to got a bit of a panic with all that was going on so he decided to take a leak and so I didn't realize this until after I had the socks on. You know two big quake under the socks so in the middle of all this. That basil is peeing on the floor. Yes and tie catches in Tag. What you gave you gave blow by blow commentary of all of this. I had A. I had a bird's eye view of what was going on. I could see my mom. I could see my dad. I could see the dog. It was it was a great vantage point of everything. That was an thank God because we'd haven't known forever and the moment the people saying that they got a good laugh out of us. And it's just an honest kind of fun and and video that people can sit back and just laugh at us and just kind of. It's like your typical Irish family. But I just kinda captured the moments on on video just to a typical Irish family and a bat and the dog and the dog tag and dairy. It's great to speak with you. Thank you okay. Thank you John. From Archives Carol speaking with Tiger and dairy fleming in two thousand seventeen. Hi I'm Leah and I'm Falen you know us as the host of the podcast. The secret life of Canada. And we've got an exciting bit of news for you. We do. We WanNa go to school with you. That's right we are now part of the curriculum in a way. We've teamed up with educators from across the country to create teaching guys that go along with some of our best episodes. We've got teaching guides for indigenous history. Caribbean Canadian Migration Black History Asian history. It's very exciting. It is very exciting and so each guard comes with ad free audio transcripts lesson plans slide shows and a whole bunch of other stuff. Yeah just had to. Cbc DOT CA Slash Teaching Guides for more info at. It's free. It's free this afternoon. Patty Heidi repeated her plea for Canadians to fight the pandemic by staying home and sitting tight but the federal health minister knows. People are Ansi provincial. Premiers are warning that they're running out of protective equipment. For health workers. The trump administration is cutting off. Those supplies and health officials. Say they're still ramping up testing. We reached Canada's Minister of Health. Patty Hi do in Ottawa Minister High. Do where is Canada right now? In our battle with this virus well thank you. And that's a complicated question to answer just because obviously different provinces are in different situations with the corona virus and with their efforts but I will say that obviously many provinces are Ascending curve as you will and the efforts that Canadians are collectively making is the flat curve and to reduce the number of Infections that happened so quickly all at once so that we can protect our health care system and ensure those supports are there for people who become More ill but you know the the line people are citing often that you can't fight it enemy blind and what we're seeing is that in a number of other countries. Some countries have been doing widespread testing even with people who have no symptoms and they have found that a very effective way to fight. This is where we see the the curve flattening earlier than others. Why DOESN'T COUNT ADO. Why don't we do widespread testing here? Well in fact we're one of the top countries in terms of our testing per capita and as our testing capacity expands of course in their parameters will expand in terms of who can be tested. But I think Dr Tamas spoken quite eloquently eloquently about the testing strategy and why it is that testing someone for example who has no symptoms may not give you a good sense of whether or not that person has been infected or will be affected in the future and the strategies have to be very specific to detect in corona virus in our communities As you know and I think today or our number is it higher. But the percentage of tests that we've conducted have shown about five percent of those as positive and that means that we're within the range that the World Health Organization has set of three to twelve percents being that you're testing strategy is accurately detecting corona virus activity in your country and again as we develop more testing capacity different kinds of tests. I think those will be useful in terms of the next steps for how we get ourselves out of this situation. I guess again going back to the idea of you can find an enemy blind. Do you if you have a good sense. Of How many cases we know we've been talking with the known. Cases are between at this point. Fifteen and sixteen thousand in Canada. But you have modeling. You have projections. Why not release that? Why don't we like? Why can't we know what you know so we will be releasing the modeling this week but again? The modeling nationally is different than the modeling provincially. And it's more of an aggregate of what might be happening in the country. The provincial modeling is actually more accurate if you will in terms of what's happening in their own particular jurisdiction and with their own data Certainly modeling is one way to potentially predict what might happen but I will say that. Modeling is really just gives you sort of her. A RANGE OF SCENARIOS. That may happen. And it's very useful for epidemiologists in terms of looking at additional measures that could be applied. And what potential benefit you might get from those measures but. I think it doesn't answer the question that Canadians are looking for which is really what happens next. And how do we get out of? This and modeling is actually more of a predictive tool for Public health officials in terms of. What else has to happen to flatten the curfew? Okay I'll put this to you that on last week Ontario Premier Doug Ford released Projections release the modeling and told people that there could possibly be sixteen hundred people in -Tario who died this month from the virus. Is it possible that a lot more people rob stayed in on this weekend? Follow the rules more closely. Because they heard that I mean the the point people are making. Is that if you let people know if you just hear that the fifteen thousand cases doesn't seem like a lot but if we know what you know that maybe people might be more more stringent in following the regulations and the rules you put out. Well certainly we know that people are taking it seriously in Canada and and actually we can we can. We can see that from the data that we're gathering but listen we as I've said we're we'll be releasing our modeling nationally This week and Canadians. We'll have a sense of of what? The range of possibilities are in terms of outcomes but I will say this I mean I think as we see cases growing communities across the country. Canadians are taking this seriously. They know that the actions they are taking today are protecting the lives of the people that they love their neighbors of their elderly relatives or end up their young relatives and so I think it's. It's to me heartwarming. That Canadians are actually taking this seriously. It's a tough time for everyone. And certainly obviously additional data help but We know that Canadians are taking this very seriously on the issue of protecting do we have do people in the front lines have the personal protective equipment. They need the. Ppa's are we seeing that the healthcare workers. They have what they need we just for Doug Ford. Tell us that that the order of masks that he wanted didn't wasn't all didn't come. You only had a part of that order. Are People getting the equipment they need? We're working really closely with the provinces and territories to make sure we understand what socks they haven't had and what they urgently need as they experience their various pressures on the healthcare system. As I said last week this is an environment where all countries are now competing for extremely difficult to acquire personal protective equipment. We've made some headway particularly on Surgical masks and gloves for example. But we have more to procure in terms of and ninety five masks and gowns. It's not going to be solely Something we can accomplish procuring from overseas. We also have as many domestic Solutions companies have come forward in volume to come up with innovation and way security To produce the kinds of that we need so this is really an all hands on deck moment for Canada and we're completely grateful to the number of partners that are working to procure that equipment for frontline workers hearing you correctly. You're saying you cannot guarantee that they could. We'll have the equipment they need to fight this to what other fighting this virus. I am saying that we are doing everything. Humanly possible including procuring with provinces and territories like Ontario like Alberto like l like DC and supporting smaller jurisdictions even local hospitals to procure from a variety of different sources. And the more that we work together as a country. Larger orders are which enabled us to have a better chance at procuring. But listen we are working as I said Day and night I have to say With all of our partners at every level of government to try and ensure that we can get what we need and we are also ensuring that our domestic production has the capacity has the licensing to go forward and produce equipment for Canada at that site. That's a homegrown solution very quickly. Just a few seconds left. Do you have any kind of projection as to? When the distancing lockdowns might be eased. That's the question that everyone's looking to solve. Certainly I think we'll have more to say this week in terms of some of the strategy about how that might come about. But no I don't have a I don't have a prediction for how long I do know that We are going to need to maintain this for at least several more weeks As we protect that healthcare system as provinces Go through their various urges is very very important that we ensure that not everybody gets sick at once so that we can make sure that when someone gets very seriously sick or needs. I see that there will be the space for them. And that's the work that we're all doing together as Canadian. We will leave it there for now. Minister High do thank you. Thank you very much. Patty Hi do is the Federal Health Minister. She's in Ottawa Dwight Ball offered Donald trump a reminder yesterday a reminder about recent history and human decency the Newfoundland Premier was responding to the US presidents decision to invoke the defense production act to ban exports of key virus fighting equipment to Canada. Here's some of what premier ball had to say in two thousand and one. Our province stepped up in the biggest way possible. When the United States was in crisis after the terrorist attacks in New York Newfoundland and Labrador accepted with open arms. Thousands of people from around the world with no questions asked with no prompting newfoundlanders and laboratories acted fast. They did what was necessary today. We are no different. We help others. That is ingrained in our nature. Since nine eleven newfoundland and Labrador's hospitality has drawn worldwide attention. Especially through the Broadway musical. Come from away so today to say that I am fury. Aided with the recent actions president trump of the United States is an understatement. I cannot believe for a second in a time of crisis that president trump would even think about banning key medical supplies to Canada Newfoundland and Labrador will never give up on humanity. We will not hesitate for one second if we had to repeat what we did in nine eleven. We would do it again. This is a time when we need to work together to continue to protect a residence inn to keep them safe from cove in nineteen no matter where they live or what passport they hold Colvin. Nineteen is a turning point in our history and the people of our province will continue to shy what their kind nature and willingness to go above and beyond for those who need it the most as leader of this province. I am beyond proud more than ever. We need one another and we will continue to work with our colleagues work with the federal government and work with you to do whatever it takes to protect and support you as best we. The time is now. It's by working together that we will get through this thank you. That was newfoundland premier. Dwight Ball speaking yesterday in Saint John's at some condo buildings in Winnipeg the social distancing rules just aren't sticking that prompted one desperate property manager to offer people checks to stay inside their units. Brenda bridges is the president of a company that manages ten thousand Condo residents and apartment tenants. Today she shared her frustration on. Cbc's Information Morning. We get a large number of phone calls from the residents who are truly afraid. The people that are not self isolating. And that are not practicing social distancing Oh about four weeks ago. We've sent out a huge package to everyone telling them what they should be doing. You know not not a riding the elevator with more than one person being apart from each other we're considered boots on the ground and and we were getting calls for help. We don't have any authority to help anyone. So people are calling in both the elevators. What other spaces in the building or people calling with concerns about exercise rooms? We have locked up exercise rooms with input. Do Not use signs on it but people are still breaking into those rooms and using exercise equipment. People that are still meeting in the lobbies. Even though we've taken the furniture way they still meet in the lobbyists and carry on socializing. Can you can you do anything? All we can do is phone them and tell them to stop doing it. We don't have. We have no power to stop anything at all physically matter of fact we have one senior building where we've actually done as we said to everyone that will obey the rules. We'll send them a check for one hundred dollars each month. I've been in contact with the police. Chiefs Office announced that. There's something they can do. But they said until the mayor gives them the authority to actually step in and take some steps they're powerless. What's prompted you to go public with. This had a phone call from a from a lady young. We can't Last weekend and she was just in tears. She said that she was trying to just go into the elevator to go downstairs to pick up a food delivery and there was a man who was riding the elevator up and down up and down and wouldn't let her in and she wanted me to go and help her. There was nothing I could do. All the people just saying it's my space and I don't have to listen. That's just the nature of this. That's what the majority of Emmer saying like basically. Who are you to try and tell me what to do? Even when we phone them a lot of times they just hang up on this thing when they even listened to what we have to say like. I said I. We sent out detailed packages asking them for help. But without some teeth behind it. We're just barking in the wind. Brenda Bridges President of Bridges Property Management speaking with CBC Winnipeg host. Marcy Mark Coosa. This morning he may not be the hero we deserve. But Jason Baird is definitely the hero. We need right now for the past few days. The martial arts instructor has been running through the streets of Stockport England near Manchester. And he's been attracting a lot of attention not because of how he runs but because of how he looks while he doesn't when Mr Berg takes to the streets he doesn't just wear tracksuit or yoga pants. He goes out dressed as your friendly neighborhood spider. Man We reach Jason Baird in Stockport. Davison they say a crisis can show us who we really are and it turns out that your Spiderman yeah well for the time being on Spiderman. How did this get started? It was actually Through one of my employees and good friends at school in Stockport Manchester And obviously through. What was being lockdown? We continue in our pluses for the kids via facebook. Live and zoom over the Internet and on Ju came out justice by just to cheer the kids And all the kids went crazy about it. They looked at so the day after he went to the shops to just get some bread milk and stuff for his house dressed the Spiderman and he's community than just died posting all over facebook. Have you seen by them by them? On so I decided to join in and they went and got my own Spiderman outfit for from birth to a new hot one and then just went out on the daily joke our job and just everyone started going crazy about it in our local community and just spread like wildfire. Now you say you go for your our because in in the UK. You're allowed to go out for an hour of exercise and so you're using that to go around despite a man but I mean do you. Do you do whatever a spider can as the song goes? Do you do more than just run? Yeah well I try. I try to do my best. I'm I'm I'M A. I'm a competent gymnast and Martial Arts and south of the martial arts and so it was five years of age and I'm thirty four now and a set my set my marshall out school when he was seventeen years of age so I can flip and do acrobatics and stuff like that. So when when my legs are so tired Little Spider girl spider by. I always try and make as authentic as possible so do even trying sound. I try my best American option as well But Yeah I do. All the poses the website and game every car that goes past. Make sure and shoot my website every car and lorry. That goes okay give us. Your American accent is Spiderman so I know me say. Hey Kids how you doing the day? you being good. Are you listening to mom stay indoors so I try my best? That's not the best accent you try. We have many American listeners. And I'm sure they're having a good laugh right now. We're GONNA start on following me on facebook now so the kids love you. Tell us about some of the responses. You've had absolutely fantastic. We've got the whole of our area. Now actually dressy not like Spiderman and the whole can I on mine and I went for a jog the other day. Someone was playing Spiderman theme tune like throughout the whole house Full volume. The whole windows had all pictures of spider man all the toys by the money and the window To the point of light people put in just signs everywhere. Every it'd be Kinda cool but like a local celebrity at the moment is we. We've got so many more people now doing the same. An officially going out sticking to government guidelines going out on the road to get the daily exercise. But we've got. We've got buzz light year. We've got Batman Superman Flash. Everyone's dressing which is fantastic. I guess a lot of these cautions including the Spiderman comes with its own built in Facemask does yeah. So that's why I always say make sure and I'm making my videos for the kids Making sure that I am staying expired. He's he's trustee mask on these folks And he's keeping Sultan in place so now it's so a lot of the kids are so down there all cooped up in the house in the. Uk's they are here and So it it must be really something for them to see you come down the street. What what the. What do you think you're doing for the kids? What do you think more than just a moment's entertainment? What what do you think it means for them to see you? I think more than anything. It's just trying to keep morale five I've got two children myself. I've got seven months old so on a five year old doctor and obviously we're in questions from for my doctor. Now say my Kinda see my trends. Why can't I go out and play? Why can't I go to my son's class so it's trying to get a point across stop Obviously the government and everybody's trying to do but in a playful way from Spiderman in the Superhero Book. It's just making them just feel happy and upbeat. 'cause I know staying in the House for so long On the parents are GonNa get a little bit stressed out with trying to school. The children at home Finding things for them to do so I think he's just just keeping spirits. Hi Fi With something exciting. And what is your five year old. Thank her dad being Spiderman. She loves it. She's she's she's actually told all teaches now By what's up I I kept secret for the first time when I actually got changed in secret. Craps out the house and then not until mushroom window. Since she was the first person to see me I'll buy them and she didn't know it was maple up. We've we've had to tell that he's working with the real spider now just to patrol the streets and make sure everyone's say what she She loves it. She was supposed to go with monitoring. We have another Here in Canada in paradise. Newfoundland there's Some of his DEP is spider. Man Doing the neighborhood sharing the local kids. So do you think this'll be a bit of movement? Yeah I do definitely. I thought Pitcher Stephanie. From Japan from Italy It does seem to be now not just stay into the UK. Those teams be going global. Now obviously just encourage everybody to make sure that keeping government rules and regulations and keeping social distance and and obviously not putting themselves in danger and anybody else's well yes and keeps fantastic and Akon everybody enough for all the support that they've given us. Thank you spidey. You're welcome you. Will you stay safe now? All right I hear. Ya By for by Jason. Berg is the owner of the Jason Baird Black Belt Academy and one of the Stockport Spiderman. We reached him in Stockport England near Manchester. You've been listening to the as it happens. Podcast our show can be heard Monday to Friday on. Cbc Radio One and on Sirius Xm following the world at six. You can also listen to the whole show on the web this Goto. Cbc DOT CA slash. Ah and follow the links to our online archives. Thanks for listening. I'm Carol off. I'm Chris. How for more. Cbc PODCASTS GO TO CBC DOT CA slash podcasts.