5 Episode results for "don shaw"
Teachers that lie to students
"Bartez of anchor the best APP ever. You know Before is that people here well and you know you help others who gone to it. Waves depression peace happiness relationships and so forth Is a hard to do is very simple. Easy Express Hayfield is a good way to Koi of and help others go through going through a holiday conflict blessings in today's April twenty first. All other standard was going on reality. Will a pupil These rich people. Why here basketball players? Baseball player the government system. You Know Bill Gates always look dumb ass. People who people support you know every year every day and he's evil people. We told him out. Distract you and your lifestyle see when people support the double dave ago goal was able will g g single. Save you the day for one. Let's just keep a railway here right us. Rich people will take your money. was created by taking money. You only care about it so you said bad game wonder. Will you money going to rich people? They don't care about staying them with the net full. You would name one thing I for you. Nothing nothing data. Help you conquer exactly the United Conquer your fear. Your depression stress. The more stress on you did away for you period. Sedan down help us. We show goals. They now hope you to be successful. They not teach you how to job. At how best money? Let's will people get twisted that. See these rich people out here. They don't want so much attention's behind closed doors on TV. They lying face. The rich people are the least. You know midday freemasons whatever need the same people that lying phase. And you WanNa kiss the is or you know. Divide you with black versus white white versus Spanish. You is full. They divided everybody while people was killing. One another why these rich people laughing at you you know our social media. Tv News. Eleven You'll Fox five was such for you know and they sit there just days and yet over TV that TV's mostly brainwash because people laugh the now if you they do they pay rent no they. Don't pay rent you again. Why so much focus on paper for? I mean if you if you agree with doing then you need to do some soul-searching life as fact this is the fat people. Vote for the wrong reasons. The Don Shaw for example. An asshole who accepted the Chinese people the beginning but he knew what was going on stupid. He wasn't stupid. To begin with you will again. I go by with passe. Get same gay marriage law. He Will God so high main people say they love God but then again to go back to the Bible says Jesus never said God knows it. No you offer that which people they create books they create by created. They do all that just used to brainwashing dummy brainwash. Kids Will Disney like line. Came for example is rich. People know what they doing. And don't give a damn by shoe and that's recall the freemasons the N. W. New Order New Orleans places lashes in the five G. Kim on at fact newer dam was out there and people that recognize. It was right on Adela Bill. You look at Your del Bill and look at the pyramid around. The payment is spilling Mason's M. A. S. O. N. is rife face. Annua rule will always blind you from the start but as we get older. We realized that some things uncountable. You know like the rich people build these churches and these passes take your money. The only thing is taking a minus about it. We had nothing they be day. You WanNa play and one point the finger either job. Not Knowing you do that yourself no way to do it yourself. I guess you remember that stop. This is rich people. Don't give a damn by shoe period piece. Hi Hi hi good. We'RE GONNA GO and lose. They're trying to pool you. Let him do payday. Sauce came in Honolulu. Volley muscle with the boulevards. Jj dislike the time you go momma see. It's getting that you got a mind. Took aim at the right prequels delayed. Glass don't know if I ain't Van Brands. Celebi earn getaway to please me with the state that was right now. We get exactly simply good stuff breath we will never know what the like shot from the Pistou. Then it's too late for the kid. Makoto negate every day picking up momentum in this big world for the faithful single more independent women open to be better off how it feel to be left. Don't trust anyone know page if we believe only believe to even if you can these people you will just promised to be rail made caucus be glass grass.
The Aiuppa Bribery Case
"You are listening to gangland wire hosted by former kansas city police intelligence unit detective jerry jenkins good evening. All you wear capris out there tonight. We're going to talk about a bribery attempt of a chicago police officer. I recently had somebody one of our fans. Wire-tappers out author asked me if i'd ever been offered a series bribe and i have to say you know kansas city. We didn't really have that tradition of bribery. By the time i came on in nineteen seventy-one now the nineteen fifties they did a up into the sixties and when we got clarence kelly was a former f._b._i. Agent as our chief of police he really rooted out a lot of the commanders inside liden him. They retired when they realized that <hes> <hes> there's. There's a new sheriff in town jail. We say so that that smaller time bribery <hes> did not exist in the bigger time bribery. I don't know we kelly's one that formed intelligence unit were worked at most of the time and so he started off with two incorruptible guys <hes> rake indian ian in jimmy doolan and like a lot of us we were they were country guys. They were from one of us from stockton. The other now jimmy dylan actually was from up by where i come from. I'm in northwest missouri from a rural area and and it was kind of like. I don't know we didn't really have that tradition. We didn't grow up with that. Tradition of people bill being able to bribe policemen so we didn't take bribes. There were some people at dan we we had our sheriff. Criminals are policemen who were criminals all along. They'd get caught every once in a while but mainly. We didn't have now chicago new york. <hes> is a little different story. There's a long tradition. It's institutional corruption corruption that in a lot of little ways they always took clean joey say clean money as opposed to dirty money never take money from narcotics dealers or <hes> somebody like like my guys if they got outside the the realm of what they were supposed to do like hand heart in chicago william had heart was a longtime police <music> officer sergeant captain went all the way up to commander ran a burglary ring and was really connected closely with the outfit but when a rural rural but a suburban policeman was killed by a couple of mob associated <hes> armed robbers two guys that worked with harry aleman and his crew crew why he made tournament and they had to tell where the body they'd buried displacements body and they had to tell where the body was buried so it kinda like work both th- ways guys who were a little too close with with the outfit <hes> who knows some people as like las vegas. Some people say they liked it when the mob ran it and it was safer nicer nice earners more customer service. I don't know <hes> but <hes> everybody everything is what it is and that's the way it was in kansas city <hes> in my experience but in chicago's a little different experience so i wanna talk about when when joya was coming up and how he got caught up in a bribery attempt by one honest policemen who worked for a sheriff richard ogilvie ogilvy was <hes> was a sheriff that took over he actually hired richard kane and had ended up finding fired him shortly after but they had cooked a cook county sheriff for period of time back in the sixties fifties and sixties i believe and and he was basically he was not corrupt utter. Then you know you got to be a politician you gotta you gotta do certain things to get along but taylor did not allow his guys to to take <hes> the smaller time briberies who who knows i mean he he got run for office again and they take money <hes> for their campaign contributions. I mean that that still goes on up to the day in which allows you access but i'm gonna tell you one story that i thought was kind of interesting interesting about this one honest policemen he was a he was <hes> vice unit officer. He might have been sergeant then really say from this man was donald shaw twenty six six year old vice officer assigned to the cook county vice squad nine hundred and sixty five he and james larkin james hill anna in a james braddock and i guess that was the triple triple. Jimmy gang their triple. Jimmy crew the three gems three. James's probably what they were called at the office. They went into doyle's palm club which was sixty twenty-six west twenty sixth street posing as customers. The coppers heard sounds of slot machines being played played in the back the ended up arresting a sixty three year old woman for gambling and edward f doyle from cicero as the manager and shortly after the rest while they were still there a man named john carr walked in he allegedly at the time tried to offer a five hundred dollar bribe to forget the arrest shop just turns around and arrest junk car for his attempted bribery and later they had a county grand jury heard the case indicted that man for bribery this junk car would be identified by the sheriff's department department has a brother-in-law of joseph korngold who was a well known outfit gambling fixture in cicero his his real name was not car. It was caspar j. cleft peta. We had a guy here in kansas city. Some of the other members of families name was calm assad on he was pretty well. Known william asano colleague willi the rat and we used to call his son is willie comes on a junior he used to call him willie the mouse but they use the name comings and he used used in a lot of different business things and actually if you think about it a lot of prejudice against italians out of the turn of the century not up into the forties and fifties so i understand dan why they might want to anglicized their name a little bit from the italian that and when you were well-known mobster you also don't mind changing your name either. He was an associate of chuckie english. It was a west side mob gambling boss and lester crews who was an operator a floating crap game for the outfit officer shaw later on was approached got a phone call from jacob p dutt's it called him dutch which berg rider which i guess they call him debts from the duke are a german he was a lieutenant on the sheriff's department and and he called called up don shah and said hey. You know let's talk about this. I want you to meet somebody so they got together with the other members of the unit and somehow got a miniature radio transmitter with a receiver from the state police. He's weren't very it common in one thousand nine hundred eighty five. Let me tell you these. These kinds of devices were not common at all but anyhow they got the device. They wired him up. This was a cook county sheriff's office remember and they went to chicago. Police intelligence unit captain duffy and lieutenant berry who assigned a couple of detectives -tective allen jacobson and robert hedley to operate this recording device used to call him a kill kit by that time kate yale and think was the the actual the brand name of them and and it was it looked like a pager <hes> it was a pretty good size <hes> sending unit that they have to tape on him. You had to be real careful not to tape but directly to their skin because it got it got hot. You needed some cloth between the person's skin. Many million informant had to run to the bathroom and and strip that thing off 'cause somebody <hes> tape that kill to directly to their skin and then put enough clothes over that it and they're like maybe like bending over and it was pushing against him real hard <hes> they had to run and take it off. They could even get burnt. Some of their skin would get so bad so at the prearranged time don shaw <hes> walked into a real estate office. Burg brighter also had a off duty gig as a real estate salesman. He had his own company he will when he gets fired. In the the end he will <hes> <hes> go into the real estate business. This real estate office was on northwest highway. In palatine brighter introduces don shaw to a man e calls joy o'brien and those juryman walkabout a half a block away to a sandwich shop and drive in on illinois illinois route fifty three northwest highway. Some you guys live up. There knows nor suburb probably know where this is in that sandwich shop. I did made his offer. He'd offered two thousand dollars to don shaw to water down what he called. Water down your court testimony on the car bribery case in care so much about the the other gambling but what they did care about was bribery after the meeting shall went on home and burgh brighter came to his house about ten or fifteen minutes later called him out and had him sit in his car. Burg brighter went ahead and gave show he hadn't really given his his okay okay particularly but acted like he might be interested in he gave him five hundred dollars down payment on the two thousand dollar bribe in an in an article that mike burnett earn. It put up on his website chicago out that old and new articles. I downloaded this and copied it off. I want to tell you. I'm gonna read read to you. The exact conversation that <hes> these men had that day in that sandwich shop in burg brighter said don. I need a little help with case officers yet. That's what's up your that that bribery bust he made on that guy over and a few months ago yeah now. Some friends of mine are very concerned. Show is a good guy and we should help him out. Yeah has that. I take it easy. Take it easy. I'm not asking you to do anything wrong. Under perjure yourself just help him out a little help his lawyer find a loophole. He's fucking chasers. They did this shit all the time. You know that show says well. What's in it for me. You know the tapes rolling and then this is gonna. This is gonna hook in berg brighter. Later on my friend would be very nice to you. I promise you that yeah well. I don't know how this supposed to work. I don't want no trouble out of this. My friends sitting in the back room right now. Do you want talk to him. At talking can't hurt. I guess get up and walk in the other room walked in the back room. Don this our friend joey o'brien joy this officer don show nice to meet you. Officer shaw likewise. Just call me don join. Don understands what we need here. He just needs some more details. Joy o'brien or joey i o possess don. I can always use a good man. Little extra help l. Shah's as joey is that your real real name. Is it or is it o'brien long long quiet then he just comes back back as if he didn't say anything you just gotta give our lawyer some kind of loophole in the prosecution well. How could i do that. We'll start off. Tell let me what went down that night. After shaw said well my whole squad my whole squad resents. I had the joint and saw the slot machines and the crap game going on we announced ourselves and made all the players players lined up against the bar dislike normal while we were getting ideas from everybody. Your man car came out of the office and he got my face. He tried to pull me the away from the others and was making strong gestures with his hands trying to hand me money so i just popped him for bribery pretty simple open and shut case. He asked me ryan's retorts well. Maybe maybe when he handed you the money. You may have had time to ask him well. I don't know what's his money. Your hand is evidence that the gambling was he trying to give me evidence of these people that were gambling. Did anybody over here exactly the conversation you guys had i don't know that might make me look bad no branches well you know how about if you didn't really hear what he said because he talk so soft and you just grab the money thinking was evidence of gambling joss as ad that sounds better to me they go ahead and leave and and that's when when <hes> he meets up with berg brighter gives him the five hundred dollars well they take the tape and transcribe it and go back to the office of sheriff ogilvy takes over and they get warrants and grand jury indictments against burke brighter and isha for this attempted bribery sheriff ogilby will then start pulling in other sheriff's deputies who were they knew who were friends and cohorts <hes> burg brighter. There was david myers and donal n._a. Night donald deep rent who who had been in the sheriff central vice unit for quite some time and they had already been suspended for refusing to take lie detector test. I called them in ended up <hes> getting them fired after the u._k. Bribery tam on donald shaw they were actually had been assigned to protect shah shah had continued to try to sit up other means to you a little further and all of a sudden he turned cold on him and they knew that that the word was probably out and that's when they assigned these two guys to protect shaw these these are like assigned in the fox's to the chicken house turns out as as this is all going down why of course he's got all kinds of contacts doc inside the police department and he knew that they were going to get a grand jury indictment with him so he just had his lawyer telephone sheriff ogilvy and said that he would surrender the the paper stated at the time i hope appeared in a blue silk suit blue-grey straw hat and sunglasses and they put him in the back of a patio wagon with he's blue silk suit and took him to the milwaukee avenue station mug deepen brennan demon held him for overnight jack with the other law enforcement agencies to send these fingerprints if he had any other charges as just kind of a little you know we've got you buddy and we're fuck with a little bit eventually he was able to get out on bond the only at a five thousand dollar bond and the paid ten percent on that five hundred dollars in cash and which <hes> it was reported paid with two one hundred dollar bills in the rest and tony's days burg brighter will go ahead and resign from the force and actually during the same time he had already had his name and address found around as a contact person inside of a brothel that was up there on the north side. He'd been the chief of the vice squad for quite a while had told donncha trying to recruit him. He said hey don't worry about this. You know i've been on their payroll for longtime. I never had any trouble and have done pretty well. I've got a transcript of that tape recorded conversation between hookah and <hes> dutt's burke broader and donald shaw who was the undercover vice squad detective who had busted mister car in busting for attempted oppor offer a bride. He's introduced adduced by burke brighter in a balentine sandwich shop. Dhanjal sis joy has at your real name o'brien gupta. I said where'd you you get. The name. O'brien says well. It's a name i used to fight under shell. Do you know what you wanna. Do show says not exactly opus says would would you have any objection to help john car off the hook in court for consideration and if in doing so it wouldn't hurt your position as a police officer joe says i wouldn't mind at all but in hurt hurt myself as a cop and if i didn't have to perjure myself in court i hope says you won't hurt yourself and you don't have to be in court. Just give the lawyer loophole in your prosecution. I oprah asking for details the night of the arrest and how that went down then i open gave him away to go. He's excuse me. Do you think there's such a crime as playing a slot machine cha said well. There's a log instant. Oprah says oh laws are flexible. There may have been just like a big tree stan. The narrowness may deflects otherwise it breaks. Hoopla continues on us. Put it cold. This is your hometown. These are your people. Are you gonna let outta town. Guy like o'meara command wrapped around his finger like all these negroes in all their demonstrations. Is there an gold you. Is that any goal you to may may to our friends to our kids. It's the law it's not right but it's a law. He was talking about the new boss of the vice squad that <hes> sheriff ogilby had put in a and i guess they probably what he said. You know like all these negroes in their demonstrations. He probably had become unpopular because he'd been assigned in in some of the guys to go work. The the demonstrations is nineteen. Sixty five were first getting <hes> civil rights demonstrations. John replies well like i said it's law. I get paid to do it. I said alright alright understand fine. We understand each other. They're several ways to do things though take this man's man like o'meara. He thinks he's going to whip the world. He can't just go around hurting people like if you find annoying if you find a place open at ten minutes after four that'd be four in the morning and he's supposed to be closed at four a._m. And there twenty people in there he's going to close them up completely. He can't do that to people and get away with it. All all the time and you got to use some common sense you really do. You've got to use them reasoning. Saturation point calms your saturated. Your through our machines aren't taking money away from children their milk money or the money they go to school with every month. I will see that there is a c note or some other worldly goods in your mailbox. You'll be on the payroll pro shah replied. What do you want from me to be on the payroll. I hope says well i want from you is the information that they will not be kicking me with the point of the shoe but uh-huh mainly with the side of it. If you find out something or see something that i should know and you think i should know it. I'll give you a telephone number. You follow me shaw says well. The thing of it is. I would suddenly be out of a job. If i stopped making pinches you can do it. You could do it like that like you. Say in just kick you in the side. I do not the point. I guess oprah says you will never stop making pension you. If you haven't got an out and have to make a pinch you go on ahead. I paid for these pigeons burke brighter then jumps in their he'll give you some good ones maintenance. Some good pigeons in good bust. I gotta looks down looks back shot. He says well you follow me by pigeons. <hes> he also might have meant that he would hand somebody they wanted to rest. He just had them somebody the who would go ahead and take the bust shah says or what area are you in your replies well when you find out about may you'll see. I'm pretty nice guy. All all i'm interested in is gambling and the night spots and cicero. I'm not interested in the residential areas you could go anywhere outside the business district and you'll find nothing but a nice area burke brighter says shaw give you a little advice being a boss like i was out there justice. You mean advice gambling burke brighter. Was you know it was looted device for a long time. Brighter says yeah that's right. Do this on your own. This is between the three of us. Don't trust your partner. Nobody ah says will say the chicago. Police intelligence unit had a game under surveillance for awhile and then gave it to us and suddenly it wasn't there anymore they would get wise can get wise real quick. They'd no somebody blew the whistle. I hope ah says fine. The tables would be there. The game would be there but the money wouldn't be on the table. Do you follow me. I'll never embarrass you on netflix hurt. You and i can be nice to you. I can help if you have any problem. I could be real nice to you. I can decorate the mahogany a little bit. You know what i mean. See what i mean. I can help with the payments on the new car. I can see to it that you were taking care of every month. I can see that every month. There's a little bit of extra worldly league goods in this life for you just like myself if you walked into place and saw men there and your superior said pants me. I never met you. Go ahead and pence me. I go along with the show. Show says i kick you with the side of my shoe. I says now you're catching on or you with me now. She says i guess i said you know. I'm not involved abdin he prostitution at any narcotics. I don't take any dirty money. It's only gambling. It's okay if you want arrest any prostitutes any narcotics people any of those scumbags bag like that go ahead but that's not me anyhow. Actually he wasn't being real candidate. If they started making a bunch of prostitution arrests that was this connected <unk> eight probably would have tried to get him to quit because he did make money off of prostitution in cicero says you understand if i make money on a you make money. You have a chance to make a little money right now. Do you think that the guy with the four thousand or five thousand dollar job driving a new car with one hundred dollars suits you. I think this is all done with his salary to you. Gambling gambling is going to be here longer than we are. Show replies. I could go in this town tonight and round up one hundred gamblers embers burn brighter says s._e. This everywhere everybody's doing it. I upset you know why you are successful man why the marines <unk> our country is successful because we're gamblers every time there's trouble over there we go. We're gamblers. Were gamblers where americans that's a good one. We're americans so i said hey. Here's a phone number. If there's any gambling raids gimme a car and i want you to know that i can get the a transcript of any grand jury testimony that you give about my friend car so i just want you to find a loophole for the lawyer to step through that money. It might have been gambling evidence that he handed over to your. Maybe it was for the bribe. He didn't really say he was trying to bribe you. You understand cope each shot with that says nice joy who possess the pledgers all mine the rest is history they busted oba and and of course he got out of it. Burke brighter ends up leaving sheriff's office went went into business in business as a real estate person he ended up being a licensed private detective so that's that's the anatomy of a bribery attempt by by joy hooper as a really interesting story. I said i never was involved. In any of this or even worked on cases like this worked on some policemen <hes> <hes> goddamn dirty we <hes> videotaped a few of them stealing from a little crew stealing from boxcars but never anything anything like this at all we picked up on information about some guys that at least one guy that would <hes> would try to tip off some the mob bars if we had long long strip strip so block long of primarily mob operations that were strip clubs and <hes> had <hes> dancers dancers. That kind of thing is back in the seventies and we had a guy when a._t._f. Would go from bar to bar started one in and worked down the other and they aken pour out liquor and see if the liquor on the label is the same as the liquor that's inside the bottle because what these guys were done they would by real cheap booze and then refill the top shelf booze that and they'd like for booze that have been bought at a retail outlet because as you couldn't buy <hes> you can stock a bar ho a retail outlet from retail outlets and sometimes you get guys that get behind on their liquor bills and so they would go to <hes> the liquor store liquor store and buy a bunch of bottle with at a discount bottles at a discount and and use them and they were just looking for any violation any a._t._f. Was looking for any liquor law violations just to just a mess with people and have a chance to look around in their paperwork and see who was working there and that kind of thing more of an intelligence gathering other noperation. We had a downtown foot beat officer that they had an a._t._f. Agent that was sitting inside one the bars about three or four bars down the row <hes> from from where they started in in this guy figured out and he was going barred abortion a he was going barda bars and hey a._t._f. Agents are coming a._t._f. Agent cirque. I mean i don't know whatever happened. I'm dan i notice he did go ahead and retire they probably called him in and pick these buffalo bent and gave him some time off and and <hes> because it was is it like an institutional thing and he was a he he had lost his way somehow he thought that he was part of this little neighborhood an instrumental part of this little neighborhood and that was part of his duties to was to protect his people in this little neighborhood so if you have a friend who has a problem with drugs or alcohol make your first call first call call eight one six three six one fifty nine hundred or go to their website w._w._w. Dot i call casey dot o._r._g. A little little begging now if <hes> to support the podcast if you haven't been mo- app that's v. as in victor e n m oh it's real easy way to to transfer a buck or two to somebody <hes> like i've said before my my son and his daughters use it if he wants to give them five bucks or ten bucks while he can just transfer it to him and then they can. I don't know how they use it. I'm figured it all out. I know i use it goes into my bank account so if you want to buy me a cup of coffee or shot and a beer or something like that like <hes> several other people. We'll have a mark ryan particularly. I really appreciate what you've done. Marking a couple of other guys whose name i can't remember now. <hes> you know to to hit me up on that are go to my website. You can make a donation. He make <hes> twenty five dollars donation not send you a copy of my movie or just by movie or just you can rent for a dollar ninety nine. I get a little piece of that from amazon or there's links on my website. <hes> kansas city mob rap at the apple store the <hes> i tune store. You're a little piece of action off that you know it costs money to keep this website going and and the blueberry podcasting hosting company. I don't really try to get anything for my time. I would like to get my out of pocket and paid back so far up pretty much have got my out of pocket paid back you. You can't beat that and it's a fun turns out. It's a fun hobby. I'll never make money at it but it is fun. I do like town these bob stories and i know there's a lot of people like hearing them so good evening folks using provided by our good friend and superfan from portland oregon casey mcbride. Thanks casey <music>.
Wilder vs Ortiz Preview, Recap of Inoue vs Donaire (+ Heavyweight Division, PEDs)
"Welcome to the fight with Teddy Atlas. I'm Ken rideout joined as always by the great teddy outlets coming to you today from Teddy's in Staten Island and I'm in La too in a producer to the stars. Rob Moore has put together quite a package here. It's not easy to get these. That's a very very important producer. Your wife shall be thank you. She's over there. Come on. Please give the credit she deserves. She's over there. You didn't look pretty by yourself. She did quite a lot of work quite a lot of work to get this up to speed. And have you look as presentable and you. Do you look very presentable as you do. So thank you shelby. One of these days. We'll do a behind the scenes. You'll see the setup over here of like You know coolers and tape in all the shit that's put together so we can have it looking like this and looking professional. I hope to Campbell's soup does an open open dumped right right on top of your head. And that's what I'm open for. That's my prized Andy. Warhol possession hey before we get started today I just want to give a show to our sponsor today my bookie check them out at mybookie dot. Ag Use the Promo Code Atlas for Fifty Percent Credit on your first deposit up two thousand dollars so put in two thousand and they'll match thousand dollars of that you'll have three thousand to play with again. Check them out at mybookie dot. Ag Use the Promo Code Atlas and also so. I want to give a quick plug to Teddy's audio book. It's now available on Amazon and I tunes. Please be sure to check it out. He reads the book has conversations between chapters that go go deeper than some of the top deeper on some of the topics. Then what's in the written book It's a great book highly recommended. Please check it out again available on Emma's on I tunes in audible DOT COM Teddy. Thanks for doing this. How you doing okay? How you do with your preparation for your a big race coming up doing good? I'm getting in like eighty to one hundred miles the last few weeks. I've got another one or two weeks of intensity and then one or two weeks of taper. In December eighth will empty the tank. Do Great and good luck with your your clock Ken. You'll be superman. Glen Day there. Superman is about to come out. Thanks reminded me to take my glasses off A. There's a bunch of stuff I wanNA talk to you about but let's start with the Inouye and DONAYRE fight before I turn it over to you. I'll just give you a couple of my observations first of all. I thought this was definitely a candidate candidate for fight of the year. Coming into this one. I thought that in a way was going to blow him right out of the ring. I really thought he was going to blast them out. Or they wouldn't go past five or six rounds and I thought to near was maybe a little long in the tooth but my God I don't know and I'm curious to hear your take if you think. It was more an incredible performance performance by a by Donayre or in a way to overcome what he overcame he. He suffered allegedly a broken nose and a broken orbital in the second round and this fight was back and forth the whole time it was pure entertainment. I loved every second of it. But I'd love to hear what you think and what your observations were because again. I'm curious who you will more impressed with because both guys work again fought like champions and were complete. Gentlemen after the fight after the fight Inouye led to an air take the Ali trophy back to his back to his hotel room and spend the night with it because he promised his kids that they'd get to see the trophy. After the fight it was just it was awesome class class. It's good to see that you know you. You see that. Great respect for fighters afterwards the ring. I think that's one of the things that gets missed. Not Properly appreciated in great sport as you see the the tragedy sometimes times and obviously the difficulty of sports in some ways with the enforcement of it in the administrative salvage in but when the two guys those two noble warriors getting a ring and they all prepared boy they go at it and they face things things that most people will never face a lifetime you know they bear everything. They've faced their insecurities all their inhibitions or their doubts outsource their fears. Yeah fighters fears to the human and they face all of that fun of fun of the world and and they put it all on the line. It doesn't get any better and then when it's over with and they go to the now the way they do some of the most epic battles then they embrace and it's one of the most genuine thing said you ever going to see in life in sports in anything because that embrace is real and sincere as heartfelt because what it is is the hug each other saying I know what you went through. I know what you went through. I just went through it with you and I know the darkness of what we just faced and we got through it and thank you. I know it sounds crazy to some people. He just went battle with somebody twelve rounds. But that's that's what they're saying. Thank you thank you for allowing me to go to a place that maybe I didn't even know 'til tonight I could go to and pushing me need to that place and I appreciate. I appreciate that I found out something about myself that maybe I didn't know before. Or maybe maybe I've found that again. That was still there. And maybe that's exactly what don't heiress thinking. I found that it again. It was still there and So those hugs those embraces As pure as it gets and at that moment it's one of the most pure things for the the world to see because there's no race. There's no there's no religion no creed does nothing that Mattis not not that is seen by those two noble Warriors Nuton excep- two men that face. What most people will never face and went through it and pushed each other to the limits? That's all that seen nothing else. Nothing else matters. And that's a reminder all of his as in life nothing else should matter nothing else should matter. Just what a human being is in their cau- aw the humanity of a person the character of a person. That's all that should matter. People could take a lesson from that. So that's what I wanted to say that we had the opportunity just now it seemed to say that and yeah. I'm in agreement with you. I think it was both sides that that stepped up. First of all like you said can most those people thought it's thirty seven years of age. Just about that birthday that donate I was donated would have no chance. But 'cause D'Amato I used to always say to me on a given night of a former champion and donate a former champion of several way classes if a former champion can remember and bring back for one night so what he has been in the best even though it looks like it's passed them for one night a champion can remember and bring it back. Wow you'd better look out the other guy better be worthy he. Better be the real deal. The other guy usually is a champion As the case here with donor with with nowy but because would always say that you're fighting former champions sometimes you dig the guys pass himself and Holyfield's a great example of that. I mean most people thought when he was getting ready to fight Tyson. There were people saying Mike Tyson. My kill him. I mean there will be with. Saint Commission was irresponsible to make that fight. I mean because Holyfield hadn't looked good. It has fueled fights before that enticing was you know Donald Veda destroyer of worlds of people. And and you know the Nepal was still there with Tyson so and what happened on that night. The character the championship quality quality of Holyfield. It came back. He remembered he remembered. Champion can remember champions. Can I can remember. Even if their body has forgotten their heart. Their soul their mind can remember and Look out and like I said the guy facing the guy who's the champion. He better be every bit of that champion. He's supposed to be and you know what Inouye was. Every bit of that champion that we thought he had to be and he was able to have a test. That was a lot greater than people thought it was going to be. It was a terrific fight would great great moments and we can't forget as I break this fight down. We can't forget that and this is an element a tangible element. That was part of it that it knew we was stepping up in weight. I mean there's a guy that really wanNA tidal. They had about what six seven eight fights. I mean really early. You'll look at it. You'll you'll let me know. But he he wanted his first title. Oh and I think it was at a dig. It was at light flyweight. If my memory serves me light flyweight and and now he's all the way up to bantamweight so that's an element that was part of this because I think the size advantage the bigger guy. Don't air being the bigger man. It helped him absorb when he had to absorb and gave him the also the ability. You size wise. He was always a pleasure donor. A game the ability to hurt in Nui when he had to so I think the size ace was definitely a factor and I think it's a reminder before we go further and breaking his fight down that even great fighters get to their their Max like degrade lohman ankle and I think he's great. I got him number one number two. You could flip flop to two of them. You know it depends on what flavor you like that day like strawberry like finale like chocolate sprinkles on it or whatever but both Daba great but Lohman Chaco. I think he's gotten to his Max. He's at lightweight. Now he came up for feather way junior-lightweight light way. I don't think he he can go much further And be at the supreme place that he's and the same thing for me you know. I think that he maxed next out. I think this is it and Again I dig. That was part of the element in this fight was to size and and with that size sizzle. I saw the fight I saw. I saw donayre the former champion. Look into backup backup. He had a plan. I'm going to back up to smaller guy. The guy whose nickname is monster nickname monster. You know right there. That could be a problem right right there. You gotta be ready. Oh you fight next week. I'm fighting monster. Oh you hope you ready. Hope you're ready. So he's fighting does great puncher and great fighter in new and his plan was. I'm the biggest biggest guy you know what I'm going to back them up. He's never been backed up. I'M GONNA put him on his back foot and take away negate some of his ability to be set. There's different different ways. You can take away their ability for better punch or good punch or great puncher To not be set one is to give angles like Al like we did would would Alexander Vulovic. I don't use we use my finances examples. I don't like to do that but it came to mind when we fought to great champion don't Stevenson. who was a champion five years and was one of the greatest punches I've ever seen in boxing and that time maybe the best puncher in boxing either him more wilder either one and we had to give angles and to keep them offset to keep them from being set and the other way to do it is the backer guy up? And that's what don't add it. And he backed up in newly and kept them a little bit on his back foot Douay and was big enough to handle what he had to handle and big enough to deliver what he had to deliver. And then I saw the fight. Uh with a newly making adjustments doom were great fighters do ken great fighters when they're pushed into that place. They come up with something they just knew he never had to adjust before he was always the boss. Always the boss get in his way pushing a fight pushing you know the the geography of the fight if you will and in this case because of what I just said he had to make an adjustment and the great ones do when he did. What did he do he started using? His lakes studied using his legs more than he ever did. He started potshot and he started timing shots and he did a great job encountering with left talks and right hands keep them keeping though narrow of balance and going into if my memory serves me correct going into the eighth round I had a Nui Inouye. How do you pronounce? His name is a new era. In no way I would say in away in a way. Okay in a way it might be in a way. And that SORTA away. By the way he won he won his first title in his sixth fight was a A new an hour was a light. Fly Light flyweight title and then his eighth fight. He moved up and won. The Flyweight flyweight title super-flyweight and moved up to Bantam. Yeah Pretty Damn good. Pretty Damn good. You can do those kind of things. You could be called monster so in a way he makes these adjustments and like I said I got him winning going into around the Eighth Ron. I got him ahead and then all of a sudden it starts changing a little bit and I'm trying to remember around but I mean it was it was back and forth like you said it was ebbing flowing as great fight saw evan flow. You know whether Scotty and you know Mickey Ward All 'cause Stay O. N. Corrales oh whatever I mean it's been flow. It's back and forth stiffen chapters to the story and the script gets flipped every once in a while and that's what it was and I think it was maybe the tenth eleventh round. Maybe the ninth round may be but don't add catches and another thing I want to add in. It was the jab of in a way to that. He used really a lot in his fight so he uses legs he pods shotted. He picked spots you. Time to counter Outta Punch and he used that Jim and he did a tremendous job of making those adjustments that he had to make in this fight with a bigger former world champion tonight drown. He gets caught and gets stunned. I think it was the ninth round. He gets gets caught by the right hand over his gem he was getting court can with he being in a way with a lot of right hands hands during the night and any got hurt a couple of times with the right hand and the reason he was getting caught. Because I didn't hear anybody really point join out you know other than say as you know we got hit with right hand. The reason why he was getting caught with the right hand is because of the the size difference because donation was tall. Oh longer we know. He was heavier but he was longer. And and in a way being a guy that moved up as you just confirmed all the way from light flyweight. He's never been in with a guy of this kind of length of this kind of size and right hands will longer than he estimated longer than he was used to. And so what. He Would Throw His jab ebb in a way and he's a good fighter what he would throw his jab. Can he would start it from a little too close and again he. You didn't estimate he didn't you know understand. Make up for the difference of the length of donets right hand. So don't ask right. Hand was able to time to jab of in a way so not only time the JAB but long enough to get through long enough to where in a way normally would have been out arranged. He was still in range so the late to the right hand of donate have really caused the problem all night long and a serious problem in spots where he now and again. That's the reason where a lot a lot of you great fans they have. You know watching thinking. Oh He's getting right. I believe it was because he was facing a long right. Hanania the neons faithful for that simple and so that that was a big x factor where that was always there for donor and it was and it got to the point where we see. I remember if I look at my notes. Where as we got into the tenth and Eleventh Brown in a way he got caught? I guess it was the ninth around right. where he got called with the right hand he got hurt and had to come back this the ebb and flow and in a way comes back in the tenth around eleven brown in a way drops donate with a vicious body shod again if you WANNA litmus test of the Kinda hot a barometer of the kind of heart that don't have has show that night you get get hit with a left hook deliver? Most guys ain't getting up Willie. Pastrana didn't help us a great box. Save when Ford Jose Tories years go for the light heavyweight title and he was a great boxer. Great Shin Everything. Jose Torres hit him. A love token a body. He he was. I mean it. Just debilitated tatum. You know your your mind is clear But your legs are saying. Hey leave me alone you know go bother somebody else the way near handle the two. He didn't just go straight down. He kind of turned cringed. An almost like ran away to buy himself a few seconds literally he just turned ran around the ring for for maybe three seconds then took a knee took the full like almost right. Got Up right before the ten count in really I bought himself a few extra seconds and like you said it was just. It was a perfect perfect turn of events for that fight just ebb and flow and the and the guts and determination to get in a way look to finish him elevens. I believe it was delivered right. And he looked to finish him and where is looking to finish them. As EPOC fights usually have to champion the former champion Donayre. He wasn't done talking yet. He's still has something to say and he hits a love took he he hits like a salacious love talk. And that's another thing. Donayre showed what he showed but the champion the younger fighter in a way showed what he showed owed. He showed a great Shin. He showed great. Hardy showed ability as I said earlier to make a transition to adjust when he needed to Oh and he showed what most great champions have to show at some point like Ali. He showed a great Chin and add a heavier weight he survived. That's shot and he survived the other shots right and said he was getting hit again. I said because he just was underestimating. The length aw of the right hand of this big men does longer man that he had never been in there with a guy quite of that physical stature so I wanna end it by saying that I don't think don't add. This is pointing. His career will can ever be as good as he was that night. I think that he's squeeze every bit of championship blood. That was in them. He's squeezed out. Like you squeeze a lemon of something. But he's squeezed every bit of it out and left in the ring on campus and I just don't see him ever a being able to come close to that kind of performance again and as I said earlier I don't think in a way I don't think unless there was a perfect spot you never know but I don't dig in a way I dig. He hit his Max as far as going up in weight classes I dig. I think he's like I said earlier at the same place. Lohman Chaco is. That's kind of. That's he shouldn't go much higher. Well any AH yeah was an excellent fighter and we've been treated to some really good battles this year. I think you know Jay Rock Williams and jared herds. Another one that comes was to mind. Joshua Ruis has been. It's been a good year of of fights and I definitely put this one up there for candidate aid for fight of the year for sure you said about it. Though Ken that a lot of people didn't get to see it. Yeah Yeah because you because it was on zone on the APP and it was on at five o'clock in the morning correct. Yeah and it was on a weekday and it was on a week. Daisy is even worst yet worse yet so less Alleged coming in at five hundred one Bowl well getting up for work and five in the morning but I don't think if you get up for work I don't think you're going to have you probably have time for Glenn on shoes and a Aw Quick Cup of coffee but I don't think you got time to watch twelve rounds of boxing so I I mean it's really. It's that's that's the thing that gets missed I would. Some of this stuff is that you know just like we talk about allow people hide from it but we talked about you know in advance. Don't hide from it. They feel it they they deal with it and dig their glad that we take up the case then we tried to. That's what we're here for. That's one of the purposes of this show. Oh is to take up the case of the fan and you know go fight. It was just too damn late and this one was too damn early. You know what what can I say. Well let's talk about this a big upcoming fight this weekend. deontay tape wilder and Luis Ortiz part to one other thing just for a second because I reminded myself some. I didn't give that great champion. Credit for one of the things that showed itself throughout the whole fight his balance his by talked about his kind of punching his ability to use his leg. His Jab Jab has pot shining his counter punches but his balance. He's always balanced. He's always in position in a way never out of positional national always set and he reminds me. People are going to be a little surprise. You know he reminds me of can. He reminds me of the late. Great Great Joe Lewis. I know different weight classes heavyweight but he reminds me of Joe. Louis Outweigh Joe. Louis was always balanced. He had a great trainer. Jackie Blackburn who is also a great fighter and he doesn't get enough credit because people don't remember that far back and people don't talk about the history of boxing enough Baseball they do you know. I'm not going to talk about the other sports because she's not that long. Boxing's got a long history. Baseball has got a long history and people people. There's always someone talking about the baseball history. You know reminding those of guys like you know. Tie COBB and you know. And all those A SATCHEL page and to all those great players from Seoul Fav Willie mays not not as far back Mickey Mantle. Babe Ruth or those guys is but not a boxing. Not Enough and Joe Louis was with all his assets and always great strengths. Yes he was always balanced. He was never freaking out a position. That's extraordinary never always position always now is because Jackie Blackburn Doc. Burn in that case really developed Joe Louis and I see the same thing in you know in a way so I just wanted to throw that Adam to not that I. They drove back bouquets Adam but I wanted to throw them one extra one to the monster and pick it up. Counselor pick it up well. Let's talk about Dante Wilder and Luis Ortiz part. Two they fought the first one march third two thousand eighteen wild escorted Tko in the tenth round. But not before he was In big trouble in the seventh round Ortiz had him. I mean I think Ortiz's was one or two punches away from knockin wilder open to wildest credit edit he fought like a champion dug deep and come in and closed the show with the Tko stoppage in the tenth. He was up. Eighty five eighty four on all three scorecards at the time of the stoppage. So this was no walk in the park and to his credit. He's getting in there again with ts actually surprised that he would want to take this fight again N. before he's got before he allegedly is going to face Tyson fury sometime early next year but curious to hear your thoughts on this one. We're going to get right to what I did counts. Ortiz is forty years old. Unless he's forty one but he's at least forty and of course. He's a southpaw. He was the first time he'd be a self the second time and self pose get hit with right hands it. Guess what wild punches. Pretty Damn good with the right end and So the history the street. The history of this sport has shown us. If you look at history you examine it Kennedy. It has shown us that you have when you have a rematch between two guys. who fought a great fight? The first time and they left left on the ring and one who laws was the older one by a significant amount. Or these forty. I dig waters. Thirty four And what do they didn't have a lot of amateur fights you know he started late. So he's he doesn't he's not he doesn't have a lot of miles on New York. Domino even at thirty four is very young. Thirty four will tease out a big amateur career and all that and of course even though you look at the record of wild and you see a lot of you know you see a lot of a lot of sites on that record but they were easy he fights easy fights. I mean except utilities was a tough fight but on a whole as he was being built up I mean he was he. It was like the old timers would say he was on a soft diet. He was on a soft diet. Buddy he was on Campbell soup. Diet right Campbell soup right above your ahead. That that's what that's what he was eating. He was eating a lot of Campbell soup and But listen give them all the credit in the world he got out there but the point I'm making. Is that when you go through the history of the sport the older fighter the the older one in a rematch. He's usually blown out the second time. 'cause he's not able to replicate the initial effort physically mentally especially mentally. They feel they feel like they did everything they could. Just try to understand this Canon. And I'm sure the fans will too when you got a rematch like this. It was a terrific fight and the older guy fights a tremendous fight and he has a younger guy on the brink of of beating them. But but he doesn't get it done the second time he's got nowhere to go baby. I mean physically mentally. He physically quickly left in the ring. Put Mentally. It's like. I did everything I could. I couldn't be any better and I lost. And so he's deflated and the mental part is seventy five percent of his businesses baby. Sometimes eighty percent sometimes eighty five percents sometimes ninety percent. God told you all the more. The percentage goes up so here that the history has shown us that I mean I'll give you the examples. Jersey Joe Walcott Great Jersey Joe Walcott. What a great heavyweight champ great fighter Great Punch Shaw? Pioneer used to make moves alley copied some of his moves Friend Masato even used one of his moves you know the great. UFC love seat champion When when he moved to side a little bit that game with the flying kick knocked out his opponent in five seconds He's set him up Jersey Jersey. Joe US to set guys up with the movement. He started walking. This waste on walking outweigh and then get a little mesmerized and then all of a sudden bang catch was something and Jersey Joe Wolf Card Fort as good as he could fight. Maybe the greatest fighter ever fought against Ma's Seattle Seattle a younger fighter Marciano fighting for the title the first time and Walcott's ahead going into the thirteenth round. Not In fact it was the twelve round fight he would have won. There would have been no Marciano. Yeah there would have been no more Seattle so the only undefeated heavyweight champ forty-nine and Larry Holmes came close but then somebody named Michael spinks came up and stop that from happening. So he's fighting. Joe Walcott is beating the young strong Brockton blockbuster rocky Marciano thirteen rounds. And the the only way he can lose by knockout because his head on all the score cards and what happens he gets knocked out in the thirteenth round. Ford Assayed again I want. I can't can't overstate fought fabulous. Magnificent fight couldn't find any better and in a rematch and this is significant. Because this is what I'm using for this worm used for example for proof of my theory of of what I believe this by Vulne Khorram. You look like a lawyer Ken by the way you do. You look like a lawyer. You look like a winning lawyer a lawyer lawyer. That probably gets overpaid. Oh probably gets overpaid a little bit but but still you look like a lawyer and it does haram in a courtroom. I'm trying to make my case of. I'm trying to make right now. That's exhibit because in that second fight every match what happens. I'll tell you what happens. WHOA cut gets blown over? Run over in one round he he. He couldn't replicate the effort mentally emotionally physically. And I know for fact and this one case sometimes it might be my opinion from experience in this case. I'm calling a witness. I know for fact that it's true because too late Layton racy there's one of your clients what are you they need you they need you. Can you gotta be available so at the last second anyway so the late great and he was a friend of mine nine and it was one of the great promoters of all times one of the great matchmakers of all time a magnificent ambassador to this sport and we don't have enough of them. Don Shaw going to Civil Fox. He talked to Wolcott after that. Fight and Wolcott told Don Shaw Great Don Schalken that going into a rematch. I'M GONNA I'm GonNA remember pretty much. Almost was exactly verbatim what he told me from the conversation that he had would would degrade Jersey Joel Jersey. Joe told Don Shangen Don when I went into that rematch. I knew I couldn't do anything to beat this guy and my mind and I did everything in that first one everything and he's still got me he's still got me and I just felt like like I I felt defeated and is the Great Jersey. Joe Walsh he would never say this to the press. He would never say that. There's another lesson audience. A lot of these great fighters a lot of these great people a lot of these great leaders a lot of these great whatever they are that you look up and you would mind you wish you alike doc. They've got the same doubt sue gun. They got the same little. Sometimes those bad guys on the shoulder you know tap into shoulder once in a while SPS. AP's Hey hey hey. Why don't you give in? Hey why don't you want to get out of here. They got that same stuff going on on so I think it's a great reminder to all great audience out there that even the great ones have those doubts but you'd never know it you're never gonNA know it but but now you know it so he told Don Shaw Gang. I just didn't feel I could win this fight. I didn't feel that I could do anything better. And what happens. He gets run on over in one round. And I'll give you another one because you put your glasses back on so you reminded me was still in the courtroom. I'll give you another other one. Great Alexis Aguayo. He fights one of the great fights of all time with ever prior and are great fans out. They're they're going to say Ted. Bring that up. Yeah that's remember. Prior prior was great drugs. Got Him at. I'm sorry and hurt him but he was great. He was great and always remember how great he was his will everything and he fights the Great Alexa. This is all grail or older Aguayo. Add more miles on your domina. Aguayo was several weight class champion and iron prior fights him and of my memory. Serves me correct when late. I mean you'd probably find your Robbo find it it was. I believe that was a fifteen round fight to back then and and I don't remember exactly it was twelve rounds of went to a went fourteen rounds. Whatever was doesn't matter I mean we're get the number performed finished but they fight as great fight back and forth just like what would describe it all tees and wilder moments for both it guys tremendous historic fight? And what happens prior you get to try fights one of the greatest fights he ever fought and people are gonNA say Teddy. How could you pick a losing fight? For great fighters. One of the great fights fights. It happens even laws just like Jersey. Joe might have been the greatest fighter ever fought because we was in there with any fights does great fight fight with Iran prior and prior's still beats them price still overcome some playa swamp them in a row. Arou- was was it. I'm trying to find one SEC. He's swarms in that last round late night fight tremendous fight and he stops him he knocks them out. And then what they fight a rematch. If my memory serves me was in. Miami ten thrones and a lot of people but not the experienced veterans of the sport but a lot of people say. Oh I can't wait. I can't wait but just like the movies can usually usually usually the follow up is not as good. You know. What's the word rob for? When you got the second movie it's the sequel usually the sequel? I'm so glad I got smart guys around me. I am so blessed I. The sequel is usually usually elicits the Godfather the godfather to was pretty damn good. That was that was pretty. Damn good with a young Deniro showing your young wholly-owned consistently wow that was good but other than that sequels can be disappointing same thing and rematch sometimes sometimes and especially when one guy is older and the other guy is younger and again they have rematch Aguayo and prior in Miami Abby and what happens not even close not even close. It's a mismatch. Mismatch of Brian goes right through maybe knocked out and and eight or something like that but it goes right through not near the drama of diverse. Fight the resistance. You know why he didn't have any resistance. Listen to give anymore. He got him with a Tko in the first fight. That was the first one was in Miami and eighty two Aaron Pryor by Tko Oh in the fourteenth round then in the rematch. They fought in Vegas and Aaron Pryor Got Him in the tenth round on by a full. Ko knocked him out. Yeah so I added flip flopped as far as to silence but yeah it wasn't it was a near as compare it was it was is more one sided. It was just a character that even kept them around the championship character. That kept him around for ten rounds. Put again the former champion. The Guy who was older who gave everything who's built it. All out on the canvas not able to replicated did not a lot of people say this was a grave. You know Teddy. There's a bunch of rematch is a great Micky Ward and GATTY comparable ages. Yes nothing really match the first one though not to match the first one but comparable ages and nobody nobody got destroyed. Nobody got knocked without the end. Would talk about where one guy is older. He fights his heart out. Pause it out and gets beat Pete and then comes back with the same guy who's younger than him. That's what we're talking about those guys on that able all to replicate what they did the first time so having said that because for me this is what it's all about because you do you break it down this way. I did enough right hand of Waldo against the southport. Ob against While technically has a million in flaws can he get caught again. Yeah million ways you could get caught by Ortiz. Who's a good counterpuncher? Good fighter good punch. Yeah yeah that'd be a million ways you get caught because what is sometimes even always so long and he's so tall he's so big but he still doesn't know how to use US hi consistently he's still gets off balance out of position all of that stuff all of that but at the end of the day he's got that great eraser the right right hand and I think it'd be there again. I don't see Ortiz and I'm gonNA leave myself on the line going to lay myself where people can be critical me. You know. Come after me. I'm going to say that in my theory and my way of thinking just laid out. I'M GONNA say that water gets Ortiz out of there within five rounds matter of fact I'm going to go better. I'M GONNA say get some out in one round. Yeah Yeah I'm GonNa say that he there's a chance you know. Can I sit on the fence. I'm not known for sitting on the fence. Can I have my cake and eat it too a little bit. Attorney counseling counseling. Can I have my cake and eat it too. Can I appeal to the courts that that I'd say within in five rounds but I wouldn't be shocked to get some out in one or two well to re- to emphasize your point about the younger man in the rematch rematch. Usually getting the better. The older man his and even more relevant example wilder fought Berman. Sta Vern in January of two two thousand one good beat him in a unanimous decision they rematch about eighteen months. Almost two years later called two years is in November of seventeen blasted him out of the ring in the first round almost like just destroy them and kind of a lot of the things talk about right. Exactly what you just described in an and stubborn was almost the same age. Then as as teases now same. Exact scenario where where it's the only opponent with the exception of Tyson fury that deontay wilder hasn't knocked out stubborn went the distance with them to to wildest credit he made the rematch with them. Didn't have to in blast out first round knockout. So I agree with you. The predictions brought to you by my book each again check them out at mybookie dot. Ag used a Promo Code outlets for fifty percent credit on your first deposit and Ted. He's predicting wilder you by knockout under the under. Let's say five rounds possibly a first round stoppage. I'm going to agree with you. I think I think wilder gets them out of there in a hurry while there there has so many big fights on the horizon to get in there with someone if he didn't think if he wasn't supremely confident he could NOCCO tease out. I can't imagine he would take this dangerous. Fight it again. I think they see something that the public probably doesn't in that exactly what you just described that they think they can get this guy out of there quickly. So many money fights on the on the horizon for him including Tyson Fury. WHO's supposed to be next? You know I I listen I agree I agree with you One hundred percent and That's the way I see it and evolve fans out there I'm never pat ourselves too much on a back because that's not polite. But and plus. We're not infallible. We can be wrong. I'm wrong plenty of times to go into next room as my beautiful wife by Tom. I will say that if you guys have been listening out Dan using my bookie out there baby you know you might have a few extra shekels put away before the holidays because we picked a few of them that okay that's right. We got wilder as a minus six twenty favorite Ortiz plus four sixty. But one thing I wanted to point out just before we sign off offers that it's interesting state of affairs right now in the heavyweight division especially with the top rank. ESPN situation because with it's showtime have in or Al Hayman have in Y wilder in and they've got you've got zone showing Ruis in Joshua top ranks loan heavyweight superstar is Tyson fury and. They don't have a lot of other heavyweight opponents for him and that's why they're out there shopping in the streets. Now look to sign guys up. I'm sure exactly I and one of the guys was inaction. Last weekend is Core Bat Pool Pool. Ev who fought ridell booker. And I mean this was honestly. This was an embarrassing fight. Booker I mean he he. He was so out of shape shape he was hanging on for dear life from halfway through the fight it literally. I mean I think the commentators pointed point out this fact as well look like a sparring session action at best. Neither guy looked to WANNA win. The fight pool eventually got the decision. But it's just an example of this relationship between top rank and ESPN. Japan almost feels like it's a win win for top rank. They're using this relationship as a almost like a farm system for their promotion. They're just building up up. These guys keeping them giving them these get busy fights All in the hopes of keeping Tyson fury busy when he's not fighting someone of note in which he allegedly. He's GonNa Fight Wilder again. But I believe that one when I see it. He's just his last. Two fights were against opponents at best I think Auto Wall and surprise them a little and gave them a little more than he thought he was going to get. What I mean Tom? Schwartz had no business being in the ring with elite heavyweight So it's just an interesting an interesting thing to keep an eye on with this top rank. ESPN relationship You know so it's almost like the seventies and eighties. They had a run of about twenty years. I think back on. ESPN where they were developing fighters. You know again using it like a farm system and I'll just be curious to see what happens here. I mean they're even out there talking about signing Jarrell Miller. If they haven't already I mean Jaramillo was caught red-handed doping in Sport Dat. There isn't really a lot of room for doping. I mean he can't be like we've talked about before you're not going to get up there and crush baseball five hundred feet. You're gonNa Punch someone's head as hard as you can and we've seen especially this year. What can happen when people get caught the wrong way? And you know t to reward this guy with a big Jarrell Miller. I'm talking about to reward him with a big contract because you need heavyweight opponents for your marquee guys is just. It's it's not a good look doc and be curious to see how things play out there. That's one of the problems with boxing. We've been over before you know and it feels like get beaten a dead horse talking about it to be quite frank but And I've talked to buy used by podium by platform at. ESPN all those years to to yell about it as much. which is I could and try to get Senator Mccain at the time involved and you know do the best we could but we never got there and that's to get a national commission nations boxing you know because unless you have some body who's GonNa lay forward unilateral mm-hmm testing rules rules and enforcement of those rules but in this case we're talking about something really important that you just put up testing testing for? PD's in a sport that should never have that. Never have for the exact reason you just talked about and unless us we ever had you know a commission that's going to put those rules in place unilaterally across the board every we're GONNA have have doping in the sport to be quite frank with you. I'M NOT GONNA name names and go crazy with the right now but this doping in the sport this doping we note already you just mentioned one guy. Terrell Miller was so we already there's exhibit A.. There and we we got plenty of other guys that have been tested and found out but what happens. What is the punishment? Nothing nothing. Nothing I mean what. Stop's them I mean like you said Miller is going to get rewarded and and you said it. You made me chuckle when you said it initially on our podcast but but you will right. You said he was found with like every drug under the Sun. Like if you turn the lights off off devoted to you would saw like neon the I mean he he would have been glowing you know and yet he gets rewarded. What happened what what happened? What was the punishment? Nothing so again does sport. I'll say it again. I say I'm I'll say it again. Get myself in trouble all the time. Anyway what the hell. But the truth is the truth. There's a doping problem there is there isn't a sport and and it shouldn't be not in this sport but it will never be ever a radical without the infrastructure to to be put in place to make these rules have some true teeth to them to to have some some how to them. One Commission you have one organization might say oh you know we have testing we have to but what is the testing. What does the testing the testing is as when maybe they're in competition for seven eight weeks but what about before that you know you understand understand that even better? You made the point to me. One time it was a great point Lance Armstrong never got tested dirty he never got caught with a dirty protests. What would eliminated him was was well you can say it was a test testimony testimony of his Co conspirators? Other guys that were on his teams that knew he was doping and they basically offered those guys What's the word? They basically offer them immunity to testify against land so they gave them maybe a six month suspension in the offseason before Lance based on the testimony of his Co conspirators. He was convicted in banned for life. And here's a guy I here's your Ben for like. They did some but he is a guy that never tested positive. They had to get them the way they got him. And then you have in Osborne where it's not somebody riding a bicycle. Oh my God somebody punches someone in a figurehead. That can you have to stop in their veins in their blood. And and what do you have. It's a joke. It's a joke. You have inadequate testing. If have you been have. And then you have guys where they say you gotTa test. And they don't show up for the test. And there's an Julio Cesar Chavez junior right now. They showed up to test him he he did a runner he basically was like. I'm not taking the test. Ran Away from the Tester so Nevada State Athletic Commission said the fights not here. So what did zone to guess where the fighters Phoenix six. They moved into Arizona and I just saw yesterday. The Nevada State Athletic Commission sent a letter to earn instead. You need come before us and explain what's going on because if this is the case as you know they just explained it you need to come before his by rotting away you explain exactly if I say he say a guy running out of a bank with when INC scrape all always face and hundred dollar bills around the air. I don't need no WanNa tell. Oh may here's the other thing I'll say about the doping testing if you saw that documentary hickories. It emphasizes the fact that even under the strictest conditions it's hard to catch guys who were doping with the most engine testing of the Olympic testing. And then you add an entire country. The entire country of Russia was doping their athletes like systematically and you still couldn't catch them. My point is if you don't have a centralized governing body that's running these tests year round audit competition Titian. That's the only way you're going to catch people otherwise it's going to be doping a cycling on and off. Guerande are obviously they all. Obviously they are we know they are. We proved it but again you said it you said well you know on so many levels would not set up for it. You know you got some of these organs. Say Oh we're going to test top fifteen guys and then all of a sudden one of the top fifteen guises of you know is a big. We got a big breadwinner for them. They get a lot of money from their sanctioning fees and he doesn't want to be tested. It's okay you don't have to be tested okay. You don't have to be tested. We're GONNA we'll find. You was slapped on the wrist. Maybe they find them. Maybe they've final they don't even final but whatever and then like you said it's not adequate. Testing is sporadic. They they pick their spots when they do it. The guys can refuse to be tested on my forget about it. I mean it's we'll we'll continue. Continue to talk about this. Especially when we're in person send but we we should continue to dig deeper on this and continue to bring experts in and and talk to people because even even the the smokescreens folks screens that some of the commission's throw up by saying oh we're doing testing but again in competition testing within like us six to eight weeks window of the fight that that becomes not Oughta Dita's that becomes an intelligence test. Are you intelligent enough to know when to stop taking the drugs you take and so you don't get tested the end that will Miller Miller you would say I know well clearly bring plant single drug in competition. I mean the dumbest thing ever but a lot of the guys are smart Swat enough to know how to get around right. You know and and it's not hard to get around you just set it because the testing is not even thorough. Aw It's loose it's way too loose and again it's sporadic. It's a like some people get tested. Some don't get tested. Shouldn't everyone get tested. A A sub guys could say no. I don't want to be. What do you mean you don't WanNa get tested? What do you mean what are you talking about? What are you talking about? You don't WanNa get tested. I but again. When you don't have anybody in charge that saying these are the rules and have significant repercussions percussions if you break the rules? You'RE GONNA continue to have chaos. You're going to continue to. Have you know no allegiance since two rules and in this case people that dope you're gonNA continue a having a very dangerous sport to begin with a very tough sport to begin with. You're going to have people that have unfair extra edge and stopped his veins. They could really hurt somebody body. Try try well listen teddy. Thanks for doing this today. Appreciate your time thanks to everyone for tuning in again again. Thank you to my bookie check them out at my bookie dot. Ag Use the Promo Code Atlas. Thanks for all the support to listeners. The fans like Teddy always says. That's it's the reason we're doing this. If you like the show. Please take one minute and leave us a review on itunes. It helps massively genuinely does it helps us with advertisers sponsors which allows us to do this show. So thanks for tuning in again. Check out teddy's audiobook on audible. You you got anything before we say goodbye Teddy. The I see you in court all right guys. Thanks for being with us. Thank you uh-huh.
Back to Human Featuring Guest Dan Schawbel
"Welcome to amazing business radio with bestselling author and customer service and business experts. Ship hikind Chappel talk with some of the smartest thinkers and business to help make you more successful in your professional and personal life. This is amazing business radio with chef hiking. One shop hike it here on amazing business radio back with another amazing episode. This one is sponsored by our friends at Salesforce, be sure to go to our show notes at WWW dot amazing business radio dot com to find out more on very excited for this week's episode and I'm excited for our guest. Dan, Shaw bell, the author of the new book back to human. But before we get into the interview, I'm going to share a great customer service and lessen ready. There's a lot of power in a handwritten personal note, this is more than just a thank you note to a customer, although those are important as well. This is also about the note of appreciation is somebody who's done a great job or their goals. Well, you get the idea anything that you might want to express some sort of congratulations to anyway, my friend and colleague Ted, Janice is one of our mazing trainers at Shepard presentations. He was conducting a half day customer service. Workshop and during the break the client who happened to be the president of the company walked up to Ted in congratulated him on doing a great job. He mentioned how impressed. He was that Ted had done his homework to truly learn about the company their issues and their objectives. And of course, Ted was flattered and very appreciative of the kind words. Well, two hours later when the program was finally finished, the president of the company wrapped up the day. And again congratulated Ted on a job well done. But there was more as Ted was leaving the president handed him an envelope. No. It wasn't a check for the presentation. It was a personal hand written note again expressing his appreciation for a job. Well, done in the obvious work that he'd put into Personalizing his training program for the company now Ted couldn't wait to share it with us back at the office. He was so proud of this note, and who wouldn't be so when was the last time you receive? An accolade from your boss or a colleague at work or or even a customer. How did it make you feel some people who get notes from people they work with they saved them. Because. They're special. They have impact now years ago. I wrote about my client and friend Glenn Brown who at the time was CEO of contract freighters Inc. CFI a trucking company you might have as you're driving down the highway seen a big truck and on the side of it. It says CFI will. That's the company Glenn used to work with he had a stack of cards, and he was using to write notes to employ who deserve accolades or had a birthday or maybe an anniversary. He mentioned to me that he tries to write a short note to his employees's who don't get to see him at the office at least twice a year. He said his exact words, it lets them know, I appreciate them. Even though we never see each other. Now. Many of CFI's employs are truck drivers it seldom ever actually make it into the office and Glenn knew how to make them feel good about working at CFI. So sure there are other ways to show appreciation. There's verbal praise in Email a small gift. And appreciation lunch for employees. And there's many more ideas all of those are great signs of appreciation. And I'm not suggesting that we get any of those. However after seeing how much Ted appreciated the note from our client, which made me think of Glen Brown. I believe the handwritten note takes gestures of appreciation to the next level. Well, I hope you enjoyed this short lesson. We're going to take a short break. And when we come back. We'll get into our feature interview. This is Shepp Heiken on business radio. Good customer services. Now, an expectation don't provide it new be disrupted by competitor Dutt's. So what can you do to stand out? Well, that's the focus of my latest book the convenience revolution. How to create a customer service experience in that disrupts the competition in creates fierce loyalty the goal is to reduce rich, and and be convenient for your customer, soap, if you're ready to take your customer service. To the next level and disrupt your competitors. Well, this is the for you to order the book, go to WWW dot B convenient dot com. That's B convenient dot com. It's time for you to join the revolution the convenience revolution. Business radio with ship hike in. We're back on amazing business radio shack hike in. And we have in the house. Dan, Shaab L, Dan has written three books. We're gonna talk about his most recent book, but he is the research director up future workplace. He is the managing partner of millennial branding. He's a keynote speaker. And as I mentioned he is three time author New York best in New York Times bestselling author and this new book back to human how great leaders create connection in the age of isolation. Just prior to getting on the interview, Dan, and I talked a little bit about the book. There's always this balance that's needed between the technology that's out there and the human factor. And I think everybody almost every speech that I give if there's QNA that's one of the questions, you know, how do I make that balance? Or will you know, when when customers get frustrated because they have to push one for this three for that fifteen for that. Whatever it is they get frustrated with the virtual assistant. In here. Even in my office. I hear people going reception or account manager, or you know, anything just give me two alive person, whatever. Anyway, Dan, welcome to amazing business radio. And I'm excited about your book back to human how great leaders create connection the age of 'isolation so anxious and one other thing. I wanna mention another podcast listen to five questions with Dan Shaw. Bell? It's always five questions. It's never four never s- x five questions in under ten minutes with the world's most interesting and successful. People Lau, very it's the same. Over two thousand people and the same format I've had since the beginning. Because. Thousand you're good efficient. Get people to think respond like just like you have your lightning round and people can distill so much and five to ten minutes. They don't need our to say things, right. Like ends up becoming fluff after awhile, right, right? Just force people to give you the best information as as quick as possible and people are listening to it between meetings. All right. Well, maybe I need to change the format of my show. Then you have to be you just kidding Larry King gave news like, hey, you know, the best way to stand out as just be yourself, a you named rapper you. But you know, seriously what I like is not just asking questions and getting answers. And by the way, I think that's a phenomenal format for and what I like is what we're doing right now. We're just talking we're engaging and sometimes that conversation you could hear both sides and my lightning round as you know, is one question at the end. It's here's the lightning round question. It means not to answer it quick. But hey, let's jump into this thing. Your new book quick quick insight as to what the books about. And why should anybody want this book? The book is about building human connection in a world in which we're constantly relying technology, people are addicted to technology devices phones than apps and virtual reality and watches and devices have really taken over in our lives. So I think in the book is a reminder that the human connection matters. If you look at the book cover it's all over to represent the machine, whereas the human is a name tag that represents the try to relationship building right at your networking events. You have a name tag on. So people get to know you in a personal way and old school in a way is the new school now. So let kick known GB a bridge team in connection set of a barrier. Let's not let's use technology to remove tedious tasks things that you don't wanna do. Right. Your daily workload. And let it lead. You. You to places where you can connect in a human way for instance, conference room booking software. Artificial intelligence counters can help you sink up and let everyone know that they need to go to the right place at the right time. But if you're in network event, if you're in a business meeting put the technology away or put it in the Senate a table and be attentive and actually be present with the people that you need to get along with and share ideas with true story. I'm gonna tell you to true stories one's really fast and well both of them are fast. But one's very humorous in one's really sad. Okay. Which do you want to hear? I sad sad. All right. So at this event, and a just like we're talking about it's a networking type of you get to meet people, I say, so tell me a little bit about yourself, and what you do and he hands me a business card. He says if you wanna find out what I do my websites on there. All the information. You want to know? And I went well. Okay. Thank you. So what do you do? Like, how do we continue the conversation at this point? Oh, this is a nice looking business cart. It's like it was like the end of the conversation. I mean, that's he shut me down. When I said, I have interest in what you do. That's why I'm here is to meet other people and find out, you know, if we can work together and get to know each other. It's worth getting know, each other, whatever that's the sad story. Would you agree with that? He was just trying to check a box to say, hey, I went to a networking event. Actually, leveraging the networking events need people that could further him professionally and personally, and I wonder how many people by the way, he never asked me. What I did. It was like end of the end of the conversation. All right. So here's the funny one buddy of mine shows up and he's got a cast on and he's on crutches. And and it's like what happened to you any any points down to his leg. And then he and he says find out what happened to me going. To WWW mentioned, you know dot com, and they've got the whole story in the video, and it's whole Larry. And it's because he goes, you know, I don't want to tell you the whole story. We don't have time for that. But you can learn all about and it was very funny the way he did it. He meant it to be funny. He meant it to create a connection and yet he was using the technology to make that connection. It's kind of funny. I talk about, you know, everybody says defaulted human when there's a problem, but does anybody ever as a human say, let's default back to technology when we can. So I think more and more people thinking like that they they like the convenience of technology. They want the technology to do the work for them and use it as an excuse for even a, you know, a point in which that they're not it's an excuse for them, not how human interactions, maybe they're introverted neither you know shy. Maybe they're just lazy. And I think the technology is going to care everything. I think that because they have a lot of Facebook friends that they're popular they think that because they have access to so many people. They're more productive. But it's not always the case. Right. Well, for my buddy, he was being funny. Of course, he would tell us about it. But he says trust me go look at the video looked at the video. It was hilarious anyway, which leads me to an important question that you have the answer to. And that is how does technology get in the way of good customer service. You've started down this path already with what you just said. But. Elaborate on that fourth please. Yeah. Customer service operations are increasingly relying on technology to automates the entire system the entire customer experience, and that's a huge stake because customers at the end of the day like they re just keep pressing zero. And we can actually Dr human can help solve our problem, but companies are looking to scale and they're looking to remove, you know, the human error and save money. And so automated is becoming a priority for them. But of course, when it comes to more complex problems, you need a human to help. And I mean, I look at Zappa's was acquired by Amazon than years ago. Not because it add that it products at the same products. It was because of customer service operation because if anything happens, you can always send it back, and and that people are very nice and cordial on the phone. And that matters, right? Like, you know, that human touch will always import because what technology have. And if you're not seed in heard in the workplace, you're less likely to get a promotion in customer service. If you keep people while people will ask you next time in all forms in the entire service industry. Yup. Now, if you give someone a good haircut people request you next time. Yeah. We'll just get a haircut. They'll say I wanna haircut with Paul Amy. So I think service is really important because people relate and connect to other people. And if you provide a good service, they'll be more likely to shop with you, even if the product or service, you're selling costs more. Yes. And as far as Zappa's goes Zepos is really a technology company. They like Amazon our technology company. They're not a retail store. They don't have sales people coming up to you asking. What can I help you find today? But here's what's cool about Zappa's. And by the way, this was. A conscious decision that was made on every single page of their website is contact information for you to default back to the human pick up the phone and make the call and ask the question and Tony Shay from Zappa's used to talk about the high percentage. And when I say high for a company that's supposed to be an online retailer. They have a percentage of customers that just call in every time to place the order. I don't remember if it's something like eighteen or twenty percents or some number that was a while. So they really aren't true one hundred percent online retail. Yes, they are. But they always have that human backup. Because you know, that's one of the reasons people trust and loves Zappa is because of that service service with an online setup a website is only great until it's not right? Yeah. It's it's funny. I think the best the company with the best customer service in my opinion is go daddy. Go data litter love go dead. I can't even handle it. There's so nice. They call so often. Then I'm like you guys are aging set in less than they called on the phone. I'm like, I'm like you guys are so good, please. Just stop calling me like anymore. And not only that I said when you call them, how often do you have to wait. I think if I've called them. And I mean, I have seventy eighty domain names with them. And I'm in renewals and things like that I have to call. And when I do maybe one out of every ten times, do I have to wait more than a few seconds. And in at that point. It's not like, I'm waiting hours, and they will call you back or whatever they have cracked the code on great service. They're a great company. Go daddy. It's even if even more than that, they looked at how many me I have about the amount of demeans you have they looked at that. They called me. And they said, Dan while you join our domain club asked me saying dollars a year. And I was like oh my God. You're just genuinely just trying to save me money and so smart because because of the generosity in the thought and saving the money. I'm more likely to stay with them longer. And it's such a high margin business for them that they can afford to invest in customer service. Entailed them more than maybe other companies. All right. We're gonna end I know anytime any time a call is coming from Arizona. It's always it's always go daddy or we're going to take a short break, and we are talking with Dan Shaw bell, the author of back to human how great leaders create connection in the age of 'isolation. And he is also the host of five questions with Dan chevelle, an amazing podcast quick down and dirty answers with the most amazing people that you'll ever wanna hear information from. But this new book get it at Amazon. All right. We're gonna take a short break we come back more from Dan, don't go away. If you like what you're hearing on amazing business radio. And I know you do then you can get much more of this information. All you have to do is go to my website, hike and dot com. That's WWW dot H Y K E N dot com. Fill out the subscribe to the shepherd letter form and each week. You will get an article that contained a business tip stories. Much more all about customer service and experience delivered straight to your inbox. Thanks for listening. And don't forget to always be amazing. You're listening to amazing business radio with bestselling author and customer service and business experts chefs hike, and we're back on amazing business radio talking to Don Dan to hand Shaw. Don Shaw, Don, Shay, bell, Dan. Dan, Shaw bell. It is Dan Shaw bell. He's the author of back to human and gosh, let's let's just jump right into this. How do you create more human connections with your customers and employs? It's all about touch points. So anytime you recognize an employee for something good that they've done. Maybe they they taught a fellow employee new scale when you recognize that touch point anytime when you sit them down and ask them how they are in. You know, if they are cheating all their push goals through their job. That's touch point. Anytime you have the social event to celebrate customers customer event or an employee. That's a touch point. So all of these touch points at. To having a more engaged workforce. Yup. And eighty five percent of the global workforce is disengaged you're actively disengaged and Macomer perspective. You want to remind them that you're you exist. Oh in that you're serving them, and you have new offerings and ways in order to add value to their lives. So touch points with customers touch points with employs both are extremely valuable because in our world. It's all about the experience the customer experience, the employee experience experience is the buzzword across all lines of business now. And I think if you can create a really good experience, for instance, for customer making them feel like they're taking care of. And they have all the answers to other questions quickly or from an employee that they feel like their needs are being served. There needs to know what they need to do X having expectations set and that they have a leader that's going to support them in their mission to make an impact. Packed in the company because employees want now is they want meaningful work, and they want to do that work with people who are very supportive of them and work is the work. You do and the people you do the work with secreting experience where you're hiring the right people, you're setting them up for success. You're creating a safe space, and they can truly share their information. You're empathize to them because they might be going through tough times, and they need support in space. They're going to just perform better naturally. Some customer service perspective if customers needs are filled if they got what they wanted when they wanted it. Right. So fast customer services important, and then they know that they can rely on the the company if there's any issues just knowing that they can rely on the company is a huge part of creating that customer experience because that's trust. Right. And plus his earn over time. So if you constantly deliver could cut. Good customer experience. You're making sure that they're updated yet using technology like a newsletter that they often too or just a phone call once a month, a check in depending on the service that you're offering apart. You're offering it's going to remind him that you're great is gonna remind and that you're there for them. And as a result, the one by from you and not your competitors. Yep. So couple of real important messages. Let's go back to the first part of it. Which was implies what's happening on the inside of an organization is going to be felt on the outside. If you haven't poison her happy with where they work. They're more engaged. More engaged employees means more engaged connections with your customers because happy employees will you know, they love where they work, and they'll they show they show it the other side of it. Is you mentioned the trust factor? There's an old saying, Dan, and it goes something like people want to do business with people. They know like. And trust in the knowing and liking is easy. But the trust is not so easy because trust as you mentioned takes time. And it's that consistent and predictable experience that they have where they go every time. I do business with them. They're always friendly, always knowledgeable. They're always helpful. Even when there's a problem. I know I can always count on them that we're always followed by something positive. And I know our listeners have heard me say this probably half a dozen times over the last year or so, but I think that's a real important piece. All right. We're kind of winding down here. I think this is a really important question. I want to ask because this is really the back to your book. And again, the book is called back to human available on Amazon how can technology be a bridge to stronger connection with your customers instead of a barrier to connect with your customers. In other words, just I don't want that technology p companies are put technology out there, and they in effect. I don't even realize they're doing it. There are so unammed with technology. It creates a barrier, and they don't know it the consumer wants options. So they want to reach you via Email one be shoot. You know chat online. They wanna reach you through the phone in my went to come into your physical office space retail store provide options. That's that's the reality. Right. I'm not saying you should only, you know, have customer service representatives. Call people all the time on the phone calls. You have to provide options people want flexibility in terms of how they interact your company and how they work and live and by providing different options takes care of consumers and meeting them where they are. And how they want to interact with yogis is less about you and more about them and choices and how they wanna do business. Yep. So, but but in terms of in terms of moving people into more humane direction, especially if if a customer, you know, if you sell a million dollar devices likely did at EMC, you know, you need a sales person to, you know, call the customer once a month to make sure machine is operating. Okay. And. And there's no issues and and to potentially sell than the dishes products and services around the original sale. So it's a different level of intimacy compared to selling someone the toothbrush. Yup. Right. And so, but either way it's about being there for them when they need you. And and is a fine line. Like, I I love go daddy and their customer service, but they called me way too much. I had to put my foot down. So there's this interesting fine line could be depending on the actual customer. But you know, how much you interact with them. And how often and how you go about doing that. So like a phone call every day is way too much. But maybe it's offering an Email newsletter offering online Chad offering, you know, if you have a physical store for people to come in and ask questions if they weren't but also being really empathetic to the customer knowing that, you know, they're living there online. Lines, and they probably shopping at other stores and only have a need for your product or service every six months, let's say and so being smart about that as well. Yeah, we have an online training program. People companies. You know, we'll buy licenses for their employees and our goal is we want to onboard them properly. So that I thirty days we're always talking. We can see hey, you haven't started yet because we can track measure and monitor Justice, the client's management leadership team can track measure and monitor their employees. And once they onboard them thirty days later, I want another call going to them. How are you doing? Are you comfortable with the system sixty days later, just check in? I see, you know, you're starting to use it any questions we want every sixty days. Here's what happened once one of her clients because now it's time for renewal at the end of the year. We, you know, I said, hey, this client needs to be renewed. We've found out that they had never been contacted somehow the only client that's ever happened to they got lost in the system. And they said well now you're calling us and they did not renew. I felt so bad. And by the way, I apologize. It. Explain what we usually do. I think she was empathetic and sympathetic to the fact that we made a mistake because we admitted we did. And what I said tours. I'll tell you what I'm gonna do. I can see that you had problems you abandoned the system I'm gonna give you another year. And you know, you didn't use it before. I don't want you to pay for something you didn't use. They appreciate it. And that was the best we can do. But I understand exactly the pain that you you're talking about we've got anyway, I I can go on and on about that. We're just about out of time. And this is where we do that one question. Lightning round. The one thing question is one thing you want to emphasize that we've talked about today or something new you want to share that you feel this audience absolutely has to know, and especially cool. If it's something that comes out of this new book back to human. Yeah. I have a chapter called lead with empathy and chapter nine towards it later earlier in our conversation. I think people have to the empathize to what customers are going through their employees are going through, and because people are suffering in many ways people are challenged in many ways, people might not be adding a bad day. And while you might not physically see them being upset or going through pain. Maybe it's going on in their head. And so if someone is in a bad mood or shouting edgy were angry on the line, if they're calling customer service the ethics step back and be empathetic to their situation as eater what they're going to get a moment. And I think at that moment, you also have to realize if the problem they're calling you about is probably not your fault that had happened. You're just there to support them. And number two. You're right. You don't know what kind of day or having and you should recognize it every every opportune? To interact is a way to gain the trust. And you know, the the really the loyalty true story. One day I came in to a hotel at two AM. I should have been there at six o'clock in the in the afternoon or in the evening, gone to dinner with my client, bad weather, prevented my flight from getting into A M and the person at the front desk was so nice. And that person upgraded me to a nicer room. And his exact words were, sir. It is the end of your bad day. You're now here, and I thought, wow, great attitude to have I think that's what you're talking about. They always have a positive attitude and peace appointive of people, especially if your customers because if you give them a bad experience, they're gonna complain about you online and offline which is going to hurt your brand and from an employment perspective, if you're implies are intrigued while they're not perform, well, you're not going to be happy. It's gonna affect personalized they'll end up, you know, being upset and complaining about you online as well. So branding branding. Whether it's from a from customer service perspective sales perspective employment perspective, I use always wanted to do the best. You can when you have interactions with others Amen to that. All right, Dan Shaw. Bell the author of back to human how great leaders create connection in the age of isolation. Available today at Amazon dot com. So go for it get it. I think you'll be happy that you did great episode. This is why we call it amazing business radio because we have people like, Dan, and Dan, thank you so much. On the show. Really? Appreciate thank you. I appreciate it. All right until next time. We have another great episode in. You know, we will. Don't forget, Jeff hiking, reminding always.
"MM-HMM I caught something out of the corner my I it was my mom. She was laying on the ground. I could see it everywhere. She didn't deserve today that way. Autopsy showed a total of five shots and execution. Definitely I thought well you are a calculating guy. I know my Gosh. How's this Guy Walking around. He killed once. I was jumping woody murder me. They tell me that he is making plans to murder you and your family. This is a guy who is on a mission. I said if something happens to my family the blood is on your hands and you will own this when when he stopped being dangerous to you when he's dead on the southern bank of the Columbia River tucked away in a corner of the cemetery is the final resting place of a woman called Cajon Barbara Joan Lockwood. She wasn't a famous woman. Joan wasn't richer celebrated lived a quiet life in a quiet replace and was buried here three decades ago but also if ghosts can rise from their graves if Joan could speak to us now and what questions could she answer. What advice for this man this tough aggressive prosecutor now fears for his life? This man is a threat to me. He's a threat more importantly to my family. In the annals of criminal justice some cases refused to lie down die all right they fester and here we are now and all that's happened. I hate to say this but I think that we have to take this seriously but it begins with her Joan. She lived wench live two thousand miles south of that little cemetery a few miles from the beach in La in a suburb called torrence on the quiet street name Sharon Lane there was Joan her husband Bill Bradford and their four four Children Jones only daughter Sean people would describe her as the most caring sweetest person ever met. There were three boys Brett eldest. My mom left her kids. We were first and foremost her. What was important to her whole neighborhood. Uh knew that neighbors love. My Mom will flat out say we didn't even know your dad. Maybe that was at least partly because built Bradford's job job bill worked as an aerospace engineer very high security top secret clearance the company called TRW and ripped aw you're live appear W is back in the eighties was era defense firm top of the top. If you're if you're an engineer so his reputation at work. Did you know much about that. I knew he was good at what he did but he was always very secretive about it. Just don't talk about it and you. Just don't talk about it. Bradford didn't talk much about anything to anybody even his own family. He was just very much. You know here's my role screen. I work. I come home. I eat dinner then he went to his bedroom just to be alone or what kind of stamp collection exacting organized introverted. Jones polar opposite and eventually that disconnect took its toll bill moved out. Joe Moved on filed for divorce. The kids grew up and moved away and in the fall of one thousand nine hundred eighty eight. Joan sold the the House on Sharon Lane. My Mom was trying to finish up the sale and the move from Torrance to start her life over again. It was a Friday evening. You Joan was packing getting ready. Sean at a younger brother called her on the phone told her we're coming over. It was just getting dark when they arrived so we opened up the door when calling for nothing as I went through the front living room I caught something giving out of the corner of my eye as my mom she was laying on the ground and I could see blood everywhere in a panic sean called nine one one and then called her brother. ABREK and she says mom's been hurt. She's got a hole in her neck. Shoes Frantic back then the police and paramedics arrived and cordoned off the place where she lay. I could see numerous holes in the back of her neck. Keith nation was was a detective torrents. PD All my years I've seen people shot an onsite but never this many. Times Mirror pisses ready times an execution definitely what Sean had seen her mother on the floor had been so confusing the now oh she saw nothing because they kept her away one of the paramedics me and I looked at him and said we'll she'd be okay. Sleaze rush US yeah I wasn't processing but he finally just looked at me and just shook his head no and that's when I realized that she she was Ted. Did you see what was coming. Did she know her. Life was over. They had taken the body out. Someone had taken a carpet cleaner to clean up the blood and basically my last memory is a carpet cleaner of my my mom's blood which she didn't deserve to die that way suite kind hearted. Joan Bradford was fifty two who did it why next to her body was a clue. I saw a bullet lying lying on the floor by her foot from a thirty eight caliber or three fifty seven caliber hand gun and they both are the same bullet when the detective. You've asked me if I knew anybody who owned gun. My initial response was no my brother turned around and nodded and you looked at me and said Dad has one. I stopped and went. You're right where was Bill Bradford Bradford and where was his gun. We did find a box in his bedroom that was supposed to contain a Smith and Wesson but it was empty a peek inside that Phil at one point when I was sixteen. My father actually looked me in the eye. It said life's a bitch and then you marry one it. It looked like a mall. Whoever murdered Joan Bradford clearly wanted to be absolutely sure it was brutal. It was cold. It was very revengeful type of shooting there was no sign of a break in her purse was untouched and no one in the neighborhood saw anything so detectives turned their investigation to Jones inner circle. They asked her children about their mother. Their father and the marriage John Own didn't hold back wasn't a good marriage over it was obvious when I was a teenager they they never hugged they never kissed they rarely spoke and when they did speak bill was controlling condescending at one point. When I was sixteen eighteen my father actually looked in the eye and said life's a bitch and then you marry one. My parents got in a fight that he pushed her down her head hit. A rocking chair shattered it. I mean that's what I grew up in when they find be separated. The divorce was nasty. My father refused to be cowed. Supporting refused to pay style support everything he did was to extend the divorce and it took over five years for Joni. Get divorced as part of the settlement bill was ordered to pay alimony and child support but he did not make the payments as required so joan and her attorney able to Garnish all that unpaid support from bill share of the House proceeds. The total amount that was garnished was forty thousand about that bad so it really wasn't that much but it bothered me. It bothered because she wanted to lose forty thousand dollars. You lost control. My father does not like losing control of anything. Bill never saw it coming. Suddenly he was almost forty thousand dollars poorer and the day after Bradford and all that money Johny garnished his ex wife was dead so the cops went looking for Bradford double was he seemed to have disappeared. Fear didn't pick up. His phone didn't answer the door that his department detective Mason went back to headquarters inserted the name Bill Bradford in his this database and it did in fact own a model sixty six Smith and Wesson handgun three fifty seven magnum and which just tap into fire the same kind of bullets founded the crime scene so detected mason got a warrant to search Bradford's apartment. There was no side of him or the gun but we did find a box in his bedroom that was supposed to contain a Smith and Wesson but it was empty Saturday past still those onto Bill Bradford police even put up posters hoping for leads and then on Sunday two days after the murder he came into the Police Department woah myself and another detective asked him if he was aware of the fact that his ex wife who was dead. Did we ever had a very good relationship. This guy just sat there and looked at me like I'm sitting here looking at you. I thought boy you are a cold calculating guy very don. Shaw Coli and who cares Bradford confirmed what his children said. He was very upset. Santos all that money from his share of the house sale it was suddenly sent to Joan so upset. He left his apartment for almost two whole days. I went to Redondo Redondo pier spent the night at Olatunji towards morning six o'clock. What the hell was he doing at the Pierre in his car. Dr stated that you didn't feel good. He wanted to be alone and think I said well you live yeah. He said well. I didn't want to talk to people I didn't want to talk on the phone. I just wanted to be alone alone. The Redondo Beach Pier for nearly two days the police asked him about his three fifty seven. Magnum Joan had been shot with Hollow Point Bullets Bradford admitted he wants bought Ammo like that but as for the gun itself put my stuff in stories and not been able to locate and where do you think you left. It hadn't sledged idea where to strike. You odd that this Fella who was so well organized would misplace gun. Oh yes struck me odd. I knew right away he didn't misplace it no doubt in my mind because of the type of fellow he was but Bradford did have an alibi a parking stub sure enough the under the pier parking lot Friday of the murder seven twenty nine pm so he said he could not have killed Joe unless detectives put together a time line. Joan answered the phone call at seven seven pm but by seven fifteen when Shawn arrived. She was dead. We figure that's the time line seven seven fifteen right in that time narrow window right Kabila. Shot Joan then arrived at seven twenty nine at the fear. They made the drive themselves. It took just seven to eight minutes. It all fits when the detective said. Your father is a prime suspect. It's the only the thing that made sense. There was no one who could hate my mom so much to want her dead except my father and so just days after interviewing Bill Bradford. The detectives made their move. I arrested him. There are no way in the world. I'm going to let this this guy going to be a dope not to you did it right. There was a ton of circumstantial evidence at all leaving him. Murder sold case closed right. Oh No it was just getting started. He spent a number of months looking over my shoulder of family. Living in fear with good reason was afraid that someone was after me somewhere. I my father in September one thousand nine hundred eighty eight hot eighty. La Beach beach weather but mill Bradford wasn't at the beach anymore no view from a jail cell and while he waited in custody detective detective Keith Mason went over to see the DA where he described his case and waited for the go ahead to charge Bradford with murder for killing his ex wife didn't quite work out that way the FDA right away said you have the gun. I said No. We don't have the gun he he said Do you have anybody who put him at the house at the at the time of the homicide. I said no and he says I don't think we're going to do anything with this case. I was mad I I was upset. I knew just let a murderer out the door so build. Bradford went home went back to work at trw but his children weren't celebrating in fact they feared their father and worried. They just might be his next victims. They spent a number of months looking over my shoulder. Wondering who was following me I can remember cars following me at various times and just kind of randomly driving places trying to figure out what was going on to lose who was telling me. Brit said he too was followed so installed a home security. The system started sleeping with the light song. I was jumping. I would walk into my apartment and I would actually search it underneath the kitchen. chancing on my closets would look under my bed. Why because I was afraid that someone was after me someone my father other my father murdered. My mother and I don't know why he did it so the next question is woody woody murder me late. Eighties was a busy time for la homicide. Detectives murder rates were headed for their all time peak around so detective Mason. No choice really moved on the year passed then to the Bradford case got buried when I would sit around and wonder. Oh you know I'm going to grab that Bradford case out. I'm going to read that again. Maybe there's something I missed. Maybe there's something I didn't do something. I could do all those. somethings that do a bunch of nothing. Not one new lead Beijing stated close contact was Sean who by this time was engaged to be married. Her father wasn't on the guest list. I but Sean was worried. He show up at our wedding. We actually had plain clothes cops that were armed at our wedding that nervous yes. He killed once my belief was my father killed my mom. He's not welcome. I believe he did this. This isn't safe and she felt nothing but relief when her father missed. The wedding is only daughter's wedding but he he was around bold as brass. I would go out to a big place there. It'd be He'd be walking around and I would think right away you know for your free free but I hope not long enough long but it was long very long in the John. Bradford case was ice cold. The eighties turned to the ninety s and then the millennium the Bill Bradford remained free celebrating the new year the new Baloney of like everybody else and then a few months later after I finally retired and there was no new evidence everything just kind of like went cold case so I left and went on to greener fields by then Bill Bradford retired to eventually moved to the desert and by the look of it at twenty money and one day together other his children face the facts Brittany were sitting down and he looked at me and said so it's real our fathers getting away with murder at that point. It was like okay got. There was nothing we could deal. What do you do in that situation. They didn't know of course how good they what was going on. In here. In secret didn't know who else was thinking about what they're estranged father and what he may have done again. You gotTa have some evidence all that stuff hiding hiding in plain sight authorities wondered that others bid at risk you really think that he was going to go and kill a lawyer no question when someone takes the oath they're making sworn commitment to the constitution of the United States. I'm Chuck Rosenberg and I have had the privilege of taking that oath many times throughout my career in federal law enforcement and now on my podcast the oath I speak with others who took an abided by that same promise this week on the oath. I I sit down with retired. four-star Navy Admiral William mcraven Bill mcraven was the commander of the United States Special Operations Command and the longest serving navy seal in American Eric in history. Send Me To Iraq semi Afghantistan summit of Somalia somebody to North Africa send me where the nation needs me just send me bill mcraven was involved in planning signing and implementing the most important operations in US special forces history including the killing of Osama bin Laden and the capture of Saddam Hussein the fact of the matter. Is You have got to allow the guys on the ground who made the decisions when the time comes when the opportunity presents itself please join me for my conversation with retired. Navy Four Star Admiral William mcraven available now wherever you get your podcasts it Bradford's children were convinced their father had gotten away with murdering their mother Joan shot for in cold blood walked away Freeman knowing that all the evidence points to unfortunately your father and knowing that he's going to get away with it didn't sit right but something was being done in two thousand about twelve years after Jones murder an ambitious prosecutor named John Lewin was poking through the unsolved files at the torrens. PD when I read the file my response was oh my gosh. How's this Guy Walking around. How is on custody seems so obvious it seems so obvious but so difficult to prove especially without any new solid ordinance so Lewis called in cold case detective Jim Wallace who seemed avenue back from making sense of complicated cases. This case did not have a lot. We didn't have anything new. You're gonNA have some evidence. So what do you do. You are looking for the things hiding in plain sight trying to read between lines. Sometimes when we do coal cases is like this. I always think of it as death by thousand paper cuts you know where we are. Assembling big cumulative cases from a lot of little pieces. They don't seem like much but when you put it all together this is the best inference from evidence. Wallison Lewin took a deep dive into all that original evidence of file of mostly mostly interviews with the the first response always if it's from kids or friends or neighbors. I is William Bradford so there's one person who would want her. Debt is still doesn't mean he's the killer but it does mean that of all the reasonable options. He is the most reasonable option they learned all about the Bradford's troubled marriage about bills apparently to be in control about the contentious divorce the money he was forced to pay Joan. There was court orders to pay about forty thousand dollars to a life's attorney and I was very depressed. They micro analyze. Bradford's police interview dissected every word. I'm looking at word choices in all the interviews. I'm looking for deception indicators. Do you remember anything particularly about that process in that interview yeah. The investigators asked him how he felt about about when he first learned that his wife was murdered. I'm sorry you're dead. We never had a very good relationship. That's a very unusual way to answer right but your wife. Yeah didn't WanNA see your debt. That is in some ways a bit of a tacit admission in that you were the one person who could actually say that you last saw her dead. It was Bradford strange story about spending two nights at the Pierre in his car. Even at a parking he's dubbed approve it when you talk to his family and you brought up he is your dad is he. That kind of you know beach meditation put put on my sandals and relate to the ocean Kinda guy no. He was very upset. Maybe doubt him but it's a reasonable thing for a person to say to sleep in their car for two days and Wallace. Were both convinced. There was another reason Bradford state at the Pierre. It just happened to be where Jones attorney at an office the very same attorney who helped her garner that forty thousand dollars from her ex husband by his own state the eight man he was pacing walking up and down the pier right in front of the lawyer's office. Now the lawyer Patty been there and Bradford waited for him for two days as I have no doubt in my mind. This would have been a double murder suicide. You really think that he was going to go and kill a lawyer no question you're speculating well. I mean you say no question but really have no idea things are logical and reasonable. He's just murdered his wife and right after murder he drives to a place that he's never known to go. Oh and sleeps in his car for two days and it just so happens that the lawyer's offices right there. We don't leave our common sense at the door in this situation. You know we'd have to leave our common sense Hansen. Another Zip Code Bradford had been beaten. This attorney made that happen. He had to die to Wallace thought he must have intended ended use the very same gun with which he killed Joan. The three fifty seven Magnum Bradford said he lost pledged. Not your where Wallace did a little research on the hollow-tip Bullets Radford admitted he wants to add remember. Those were the same kind of bullets kill. Joan and Wallace discovered covered that particular type of hollow point is rare less than one percent of all the animals sold. Wow what are the odds. He's either the unluckiest person in the world who just happens to have all of these causal factors that happened to align perfectly to make this perfectly innocent person look really guilty or he's really guilty so what you were wiring all those circumstantial clues and the clear motive in means. Lewin and Wallace drove out to the desert and arrested Bill Bill Bradford. It was made two thousand one thirteen years after Jones was murdered. He had just popped open up a beer. I don't think that bill realizes is that you will never see this ever again. This is a guy we're just. GonNa vacuum suck out of his life. WHO has no idea Bradford was charged with first this degree murder and one of the detectives Foam Sean my first reaction was do you know what day to day is said no it's mother's? Day and he stopped and he said Oh my gosh I'm sorry said No. That's fitting for the mother that he took away thirteen years ago. Bradford quickly lawyered up while his family braced themselves for a trial with their father walked free or be locked. Adopt lines were apprehensive because after years can a case be one trial trial getting a little nervous I was because I didn't know how this would all fit together and a threat. His cellmate has come forward bradfords making plans to murder you and your family. Bill Bradford former aerospace aerospace engineer was coming back to Charles to be tried for murdering his ex-wife Joan. It was two thousand two and oh fourteen years after the murder. Da Lewin had pile of the same old circumstantial evidence. He charged ahead. Were you confident going into this trial very confident and I thought that circumstantially was absolutely overwhelming case the original. Da rejected it week. He called no smoking gun no. DNA know why witnesses we felt this burden. We'll never get another case like this ever filed again. If we lose this one getting a little nervous I I was because I didn't know how this would all fit together not having done a circumstantial case like this before. I really worry nevertheless in the winter of two thousand two. Lewin and Wallace took their first cold circumstantial case to court the way we presented the case was this is a man who was in an abusive relationship he would not accept that is wife wanted her fair share and when he lost to him it was the losing he he couldn't take losing and so in a violent rage said. Lewis Bradford executed his ex wife Bradford's children's testified for the prosecution that was probably almost as hard as finding my murdered I didn't know until the trial that she had been shot execution style her father's defense mostly centered on Bradford Sterling reputation as a high security aerospace engineer loving father and family man and pointed out the lack of physical evidence connecting him to the crime and the jury kept suspense alive was out for two days and then cool April morning came the verdict mm-hmm guilty finally justice for Joan Bradford. I went from suspecting that my father murdered my mom to have it confirmed because there's always that little point that still wanted to be daddy's little girl and wanted to believe that this was something else. It was John's birthday a few weeks later when her father was sentenced to twenty thirty six years to life. It'd be eighty five by the time he was eligible for parole. I remember telling his daughter that this man's knocking in the last five years in prison so I thought it would be a life sentence with a lot more relaxed people kept saying he'll be dead in five years. So you know I'm safe. He's never getting out safe. Maybe not everybody months later. Da Lou got a call from the prison about Bill Bradford. Tell me that his cellmate has come forward. Linnea said that Bradford's very angry you and he is talking about making plans. to murder you and your family of course inluence line of work idled threats from resentful jailbirds. Were not exactly new but this. Bill Bradford Guy caught his attention he seemed named as cold blooded as they come so Liu and went to talk to the informant normally if somebody comes to the story like that they want all the time off their sentence or something something want something absolutely nothing one of the first things I asked you was. Why are you coming forward and he said I hate the guy I I couldn't believe how you would talk about his wife and how he killed her and he said now he's talking about killing somebody else's family and I just couldn't stay quiet polygraph the informant he passed and then added a warning that at Bradford had said that he was going to get out very quickly on appeal and when he got out he was gonna either himself or somebody else he was going to blow hello my family's heads off in front of me so that I could suffer and then he was going to kill me so I immediately took it seriously that it it was a credible threat. Then Bradford lost all his appeals and gradually Lewin stop looking over his shoulder. He went on to successfully prosecute many anymore cold circumstantial cases including several with Jim Wallace in fact the two of them featured on dateline four times. The Bradford case faded away until fifteen years later the fall of two thousand seventeen. I come home from work and my husband's as you have a letter from the Department of Corrections and I went okay. It's one of two things he died or Pearl. I I opened up. He still alive option number. Two is parole hearing at the prison arisen was coming up which meant the Bill Bradford a convicted killer who wants allegedly threatened to murder the DA and his family very soon back on the street feel nervous decision but is it final title one monkey stopping interest to you when he's dead California healthcare this care facility but don't be fooled by the name this is indeed a prison and home to Bill Bradford who by two thousand eighteen had been in prison sixteen years which meant he was up for parole in January two thousand eighteen Bradford's. Two children traveled the prison for his hearing. I made a promise to myself that I would speak for my mom. I went to the Pearl. What was it like to see him there. I saw a man who has not aged last fifteen years deputy. Da John Lewin went to the hearing into memories of death threats to fresh in his mind. I understand the laws of the law and they have to look at parole for him. This man is a threat to me. He's a threat more importantly to my family. This is not personal in terms of any vendetta or about being right. This is about public public safety and protecting those of us who sacrifice a lot to do the jobs we do whether you're police. Officers are prosecutors or judges. cameras weren't allowed inside the hearing as the commissioners began asking Bradford about the brutal murder. He committed for the first time in thirty years. I heard my a father admit to killing my mom however there's a reason for doing such a thing which is that he has a chance to get parole. Yes he did ed however the way he went about admitting it was very unique. The Commissioner was asking about whereas Joan Your ex-wife now you stops and goes wait. Wait is that the woman I shopped and the commissioner stops is an you tell us. Did you kill Your ex-wife. Yes I did why I don't remember it appears to have dementia of some sort Bradford's attorney my emmy told the commissioners that Bradford's dementia in a basket of other health problems getting worse and the John Lewis has nothing to fear from confused used and frail man. Nothing has happened in sixteen years. Mr Bradford isn't connected to the mob or the Mexican mafia or any prison isn't gang right and quite frankly he didn't even know who John Lewin was in the room that day. He didn't recognize. It didn't even know him didn't remember his name. Do you know that it was just a parent. He's not a threat at all the way that he is the prisons owned psychologists examined him and they came back with a rating. There's low risk moderate risk and high risk. He came back with a moderate risk. The issue that the commissioners are trying to focus on and wanted you to to focus on being and want to was he's not capable of harming you anymore. He's gone being dangerous where his mind is very clear. Demand new was able to recite numerous different issues who would said he thinks but the defense attorney calls dementia is really a severe case of selective memory he he denied remembering what he had done denied remember anything about me. He just had selective Amnesia regarding this whole event so the idea that he's helpless. It doesn't have the capability to harm me or my family. It's absurd when he stopped being dangerous to you when he's dead. Radford's children also spoke spoke at the hearing urged the commissioners to keep their dad locked up. I had to go through and explain what I was concerned about for safety not only to mkx self but to the general population for several hours the commissioners questioned Bradford listened to Lewin in the family and tried to determine the old man it was a risk of releasable and then they went to their chambers to make up their minds and later that afternoon Bradford's attorney and Louis recalled in retold the question about whether or not Mr Bradford per poses a threat. The answer was no no threat meant. Yes debris role. Bill Bradford would be released. I was furious and I said Eh. If something happens to my family the blood is on your hands and you will own this when Bradford's children got the news. Those old fears about their father suddenly returned. I was stunned. I couldn't believe they would turn around and say he's not a risk. Would I be fooled. Say we are perfectly safe. No my father killed once the commissioners timed Bradford's release for February two thousand nineteen by then he was in his mid eighties. He's more than thirty years removed from when he pulled that trigger. Could he really do it again. This is a very bright man. He has resources in. He has motivation. It takes very little to find out where my family is. All He needs is a gun in Uber. This isn't any five year old guy who is on commission if he's able to still command his wits the we have a problem still because he's able to command his wits when he made the first threat and here we are now. We have not done something that has lessened his anger. Now there was one more step before his release. California's then Governor Jerry Brown would review the decision vision and could reverse it to keep them in prison the L. A. County. DA's office wrote a letter to the governor urging him to do just that so did Bradford's family. I contacted governor's office. I wrote a letter my brother wrote a letter and I had two senators actually cosigned a letter. He's a guy who stews and plots and calculates and then he acts Lewin acted to talk through the media tried to persuade California Governor Jerry Brown to keep Bradford locked up. He's looking to even up scores before he dies then a week. After Memorial Day. Two thousand eighteen came this letter governor Brown. The evidence shows that he meaning Bradford currently poses an unreasonable danger to society if released from prison therefore I reversed the decision to parole Mr Bradford when it came I'm in shock but also a lot of relief but John Lewin temporarily relieve. It's still not satisfied as far when you read the letter. The letter doesn't mention anything about me. It doesn't mention any of the families concerns so it makes me concerned that what's going to happen. is they. Deny him parole this time and then the next hearing they let him out at the time we wondered if Lewin was being ebbets alarmist in June two thousand nineteen. The board did Granville Radford Parole again. I'm not going to have them playing Russian roulette with the safety of my family. I work every day trying to protect the public. I don't think it's unfair to ask ask that those individuals who execute their wives and who threatened to kill me and my family that they are incarcerated where they can do any damage. Bradford what is eligible for release now unless current California Governor Gavin newsom decides to reverse his parole. I don't know what this governor is. GonNa we do. I'm hopeful is going to undo this really absolutely indefensible grant parole you know about Bill Bradford status within the next few months but in the meantime he remains behind bars and the mighty Columbia rolls by little cemetery where a woman who loved life and her children and put up with the difficult husband is a priest at least for now guys Willie Geist here on this week's episode of the Sunday sit down podcast. I get together with actress Maggie Gyllenhaal to talk about her hit. Hbo Series The DEUCE and end her relationship with her little brother. Jake get it now for free wherever you download your podcasts.