17 Episode results for "darrell johnson"
Right-Wing Domestic Terrorism Is On The Rise. Did The Warning Signs Evade Us?
"From NPR WB. You are Boston. I'm magnetic, hardy and this on point. Racism and economic pain in two thousand nine, those were the two factors that prompted the Department of Homeland Security to issue report about the threat of right wing extremism in America Barack Obama had just become the first black president. The great recession was pulling people under. More than a decade later, what our security analyst worried about when it comes to another lasting rise in the threat of domestic terrorism. Racism and economic pain this time in the form of a president who peddles in division, and a pandemic wiped away all the economic gains of the past decade. So this hour on point we will talk with the. Analyst who I authored that two thousand nine report and him what he's seeing as America edges towards another election. Well from two thousand four to two thousand ten Darrell Johnson, was that senior domestic terrorism analyst at the. Office, of Intelligence and analysis, he later founded DT analytics consulting for firm for law enforcement that analyzes domestic terrorism activity. He's also author of the two thousand and Nineteen Book Hate Land, a long hard look at America's extremist heart Darrell Johnson welcome to on point. So first of all, let me just ask you. How as the nation approaches? November two thousand twenty? How concerned are you that racism? And economic pain. Are Inflaming Right, wing, extremism, or even possible domestic terrorism. I'm very concerned and we saw the same phenomenon happened the last election cycle in two thousand sixteen, but what makes this election cycle even more dangerous as the fact that we are in the midst of a pandemic? And we've got a couple of new domestic extremist movements that have armed themselves and have mobilized towards action, and I'm talking about the Google Movement. So the BOO Google Movement okay, so you know what Darryl. I'M GONNA. Come back to this, but I just wanted to check with you that sort of the basis of this comparison that we want to draw from you. Today is a valid what it sounds like very much is so let's go back then to two thousand nine or actually before that. I think around two thousand, two, thousand seven. Can you tell us the story of why? At that time decided that they needed you. To look into to the threat of right wing extremism. was actually hired through congressional authority, hiring authorities, which was called spot higher authority D H S in two thousand four saw that they had a blind spot, and that no one at the Department of Homeland Security was knowledgeable or an expert in domestic non Islamic terrorism, so at the time I was working for the Bureau of Alcohol, tobacco firearms and explosives as their subject matter expert on violent anti-government groups and white supremacy. And so I was hired. By D. H. S. to come over and to provide that expertise as well as assemble a team of analysts to look at this phenomenon, and to conduct threat assessment on these various movements. Okay and then I believe roughly in January of two thousand seven. You got a phone calls that right? That's right and so We got a phone call from the US Capitol. Police in January of two thousand seven. Asking us to monitor Internet chatter to see if there would be any threats against an African American Senator Barack Obama, who was going to announce his presidency or his candidacy for president. And, so we opened up a request for information, and we began that entertain Internet monitoring effort. And we did that for about a month or so and did not see any threats towards Barack Obama. At that time it was only until the following year when he announced he won the nomination. The Democratic nomination that we started to see the threat started rolling, and there was actually two assassination plots that were thwarted. Two assassination plots that were thwarted. Wow, okay, and so then at the then by the time two thousand nine rolled around and Barack. Obama was inaugurated. We also had. The great recession, due to the the financial catastrophe, triggered late in two thousand in two thousand eight. So, can you tell me more about what your analysis showed about the combination of those two things? Sure so when we got that request for information from the Capitol Police and It got us to thinking what if? An African American became president. What would that do to the threat landscape here in America because at the time? The US is sole focus for its counterterrorism. Efforts was to prevent the next nine eleven. We were focused more from the outside threats coming in. We weren't looking at the threats within that could pose a national security concern? So we we have prophesized that and I had passed my analysts to begin collecting information as we were going about our daily activities. That would indicate arise or a resurgence in you know right, wing, extremism and violence from the far right, so we did that all the way through two, thousand, seven and two, two, thousand and eight, and it was only when Barack Obama actually won The election in November of two thousand eight is when we started putting pen to paper and writing this assessment. We saw a couple of attacks immediately after. The. two thousand eight election. We had an African American church in New England that was burned. Had, new Nazi go on a shooting spree in Boston. started seeing people being agitated already that early after the election, we also saw an unprecedented growth on a publicly available white supremacist website called Storm Front. At the time You know had several thousand members, but in the day after the election, we saw a few thousand people sign up the most that we've ever seen in one day on this website so we begin putting pen to paper putting the assessment together. We already knew that. During Economic Downturns tends to be people you know? Agitated angry, depressed looking for answers and these extremist movements on the far right like to exploit things like economic downturns be to recruit people into their various causes and movements. So when we have economic downturns, it creates a pool of potential people who are antigovernment or economically desperate, or you know other people that are just searching for truth, or maybe they've lost a job and they're blaming, you know. Foreign outsourcing of jobs or jobs being shipped overseas. And so they become vulnerable to recruitment, or they outright seek out these extremist beliefs. So. We knew that you know the economic downturn coupled with an African American president was kind of the perfect. Storm for this. Scenario of a resurgence in far right violence. So that would logically then or one could logically presume then darryl that then when your report was completed and I presume that the that the beginning it was meant to be exclusively an internal report that the the Obama Administration. NAMELY THEN-SECRETARY DHA Secretary Janet. Napolitano would have welcomed the findings and the recommendations with open arms. And fact she did right before the report was released in early April, two thousand nine. I had the privilege of going and giving Janet Napolitano decide briefing on the report's findings because when she was appointed as the new Homeland Security Secretary, she didn't. We were already writing this report and she came to us with three questions. She asked. Are we seeing a rise in right-wing extremism? If, so what's causing it? And then the last question was. What are we going to do about it? and. We'd already you know. Had this assessment and draft and said well. This answers the secretaries questions. At least the first two. And, so I was asked to brief. The findings of the assessment and we invited the FBI to come over and brief going to do about it. the one thing that you're listeners need to understand is the office of Intelligence and analysis that the Department of Homeland Security it's part of the intelligence community but we had limited forties We were pretty much We could. We didn't have any investigative authorities. We couldn't do covert monitoring of the Internet. We couldn't do any type of undercover operations. That was the FBI's job to do that. Our job was to do with called strategic analysis, which is looking at the country as a whole big emerging trends new movements that are forming what type of tactics and Trachea. Tree craft. They were using and to give out kind of policy recommendations. Point while point well taken. But but look at those national patterns is. Obviously a critical exercise that as you're just as you were saying that secretary, Napolitano was. She wanted to know what your findings were, and it sounds like she initially received them very well, but then it got leaked report got leaked. Okay, and I just want to. I want to just play a clip that encapsulates what happened or the response wants. That report got leaked. Here is Fox. News anchor. David as men's speaking with commentator Andrea. Santos back in two thousand nine. Well Andrew. I'm looking I'm looking at the report, and it says among other things that the federal government is going to begin gathering information right wing extremists activity in the United States. Is that mean they're going to be spending sending spies to these tea parties? I I'm not sure about that, but all I know is it? Is Taxpayer money so that Obama and his administration can define an unreasonable enemy. I mean think about David. Obama does not have an unreasonable enemy, and he would love for nothing more. The Clintons they always had an unreasonable enemy, and that was the vast right wing conspiracy. Daryl. We've just got thirty seconds before. We take our first break here, but the is it fair to categorize? The blowback is more of a hurricane. Certainly, and that's something that we never anticipated was the level of political backlash to this report received things being taken out of context, misconstrued Put into. Basically weaponising my report against the new administration. But, we're talking with Darrell Johnson. He's a former senior domestic terrorism analyst at the Department of Homeland Security to position. He held for several several years, but then left following this report that he issued. We're GONNA. Talk more about what he's learned. Since then about right wing extremism in America as we head towards the twenty twenty. Election. This is on point. This is point MAGNA party? We're talking this hour with Darrell. Johnson he is founder of DT, analytics consulting firm for law enforcement that analyzes domestic terrorism activity, and between two thousand four to two thousand ten. He was the senior domestic terrorism analyst DHS. Office of Intelligence and analysis, and in two thousand nine, he authored a report warning about the rise of far right wing, extremists, extremism and domestic terrorism in the wake of the great recession and the election of President Barack Obama. Talking with Daryl to see what he thinks has changed or hasn't changed as we approach the two thousand twenty election now. Daryl I just wanted to before the break we were talking about. The blowback that your received when this two thousand nine report was leaked. Can you tell us what it was like in those first couple of days when you when you walked in into work, was it chaos? How much pressure we under! So after briefing Janet Napolitano on the findings and getting positive feedback from not only her, but my whole entire management chained I went home for the weekend. Feeling really good that we had done something of great service to the nation and sent out this prescient warning to our policy makers as well as to the local state police about this emerging threat that was on the horizon. And I was actually helping the boy scouts with a fundraiser when I was listening to the radio and heard on the noon news hour that this new DHS report had been. Issued and it was a warning against this rise of right wing extremism. I didn't realize until Monday, when I came into the office that the conservative media had politicized my report. And I came into utter chaos in the office. are acting undersecretary for intelligence receiving phone calls from congressional staffers, demanding the sourcing into the document and how we came up with this. These findings, and why we were using the term right wing extremism, we were getting bombarded at the operation center from concerned citizens that have been. Fed Misinformation by Fox News and the seven hundred club and other rush limbaugh others. And so got the operation centers phone, number and today phone blitz clogging up the lines We had foia request that came in later. from you know concerned citizens organizations. There was even a a you know. Bogus lawsuit filed by some attorney up in Michigan, saying that we had slandered conservatives or something. So it was Quite the the deal and it lasted for about a month. A month. I suppose in modern parlance. We would say that the were you in the work got cancelled. Yeah, so we were distracted initially with the responding to all this. You, know foia, Requests Congressional inquiries. trying to. Formulate a strategy We were immediately cut out of the loop by D. H. Leadership They never came to us to ask for counter talking points for press release or anything which told me that they had already concocted a plan or some sort of misinformation campaign, which they later said that rogue analyst and Dhs at somehow written this report and Senate out without authorization. That was the stories that they put out which was totally untrue. So one of the aspects of your report that that. I think many conservatives were profoundly focused on was the report warned about the possibility of returning military veterans being recruited into these far right wing movements that. Could lead to potential. Rising in domestic terrorism now that is one of the things that ultimately you would think that the that the Obama administration would have stood up for you. That the secretary of the Department of Homeland Security would have would have stood up for one of her own analysts. And yet, that did not happen I. Mean Secretary Napolitano what retracted the document, and then even apologized to veterans as well and the the branch of the extremism and radicalization, Brench if I remember correctly Darryl. That was basically just quietly dismantled. So the harmful effects of how the leak and criticism, and how Homeland Security and they'll bomb, ministration failed to rebut the criticism. Is, not only did it send a chilling effect throughout the intelligence and law enforcement communities, and showing that you weren't GonNa get support from your leadership if you came under attack from conservatives or Political groups, or what have you that there was gonna be held to pay? If you wrote about this subject you know people's jobs were threatened. people were reassigned different work We were retaliated against essentially by our management team so not only did it. Send a chilling effect, but what happened is those lies and mischaracterization report that it was slandering conservatives, and that we were spying on people that were opposed to immigration and You know abortion things like this. It allowed that misinformation to become truth because nobody refuted it. And so I feel that there's some people that. Actually became radicalized because the Department of Homeland Security. Didn't you know quell the criticism? What do you mean by? That radicalized whom? Far right extremists so when you have conservative saying that we're spying on conservatives and that we're you know couldn't be monitoring people that opposed immigration abortion. people get upset about that obviously, but that wasn't the truth that was basically a definition taken out of context that was buried in a footnote that was trying to give A. a wide look at the type of issues as well as the type of movements. We were talking about when we said right wing extremism. so the three criticisms from that report was the term right wing extremism. They felt that that was a term that was slandering conservatives. However, that's a legitimate terminology that's used in the counterterrorism lexicon. The FBI had used it for decades and nobody criticized it. The definition that was vague. We basically said right. Wing extremism is broken into movements that are hate oriented and anti government in could focus on single issues, such as abortion, immigration, and taxation and We had to have such a broad definition because that's the wide swath of You know violent extremist groups. We were talking about, and we're talking about people not only who carry out violence, but those that support the violence by making calls for violence or donating money to organizations that are linked violence or providing safe haven to hardened criminals or terrorists. So, it's not just. The operatives, the whole network of people that support the terrorism and then the last thing with the military veterans criticism and you know. The American Legion particularly objected and that sent a letter to Homeland Security You know in hindsight I could've maybe used a better term. Instead of saying disgruntled military veterans could just said you know recruitment of veterans. but it's been established that there's been trends in the past. Where when veterans come back from wars, and they're trying to reactivate into society, and there's an economic downturn, and some of them might be suffering from PTSD in. Adverse effects of being in war zone. These people have been targeted. By white supremacists and militia groups. Bringing them into boost the violent capabilities of these movements and also to provide leadership roles. Well, just emphasize something Daryl in terms of how the government itself exacerbated this problem I just WanNa be clear on something so. You got that I call in two thousand seven, so this would have been under the aegis of the George W Bush administration so a a a Republican administration. The report was published under a democratic. You. Get extreme pushback. From, from conservative, the conservative from from the Republican Party from conservatives as well, but then that very same democratic administration. A sort of acquiesced under that pushback dismantled the extreme extremism and radicalization branch, and here we are so has dhs since then since two thousand nine hundred thousand ten period, Rick Rebuilt its interest and capacity to closely monitor right wing extremist groups in America. No, and they've made kind of a half hearted effort back in Twenty fifteen. they had a couple of contractors. That tried to write a few reports, but what happened. In the aftermath of this leak in the political blowback is DHS, says an organization. Made a decision that this was a highly politicized subject. They got all this scrutiny either budget was threatened. people's jobs were reassigned. Some people Basically forced out. and so they sent that message that they're not willing to take the risk for this type of political blowback, and so we now have a huge intelligence gap. For the past ten years as this movement has continued to grow year after year. And I'm afraid that we've reached a tipping point where this has become the new normal. The new normal right wing extremism. Violent right wing extremism. Okay well, so there's bigger context here as well because Darryl is you know in two thousand six a couple of years earlier, the FBI has released an internal report. Raising concerns about right wing extremists. right wing extremism in law, enforcement or the attempt to recruit law enforcement officers. We're going to talk a little bit more about that report. In a few minutes here, but obviously right now since once again, there is a national attention being paid to. To extremism to to how policing is done, and you mentioned for example these these emergent visit movements like the boo-boys i. Just WanNa play a little bit of tape here because. Earlier this month on this program. Howard University, civil rights lawyer just enhance furred came on to talk about the boo-boys. They are an extremist movement, and here's here's Handford describing his experience seeing right wing extremists counter protesters during the mass demonstrations in Ferguson Missouri. Well. I'll tell you were ferguson when the oath keepers came to protests. they were friends with the police and I. It's something that's been an ongoing problem we need. We need protection from these groups, and that should be the focus and I and I worry about the focus of law enforcement, being elsewhere and really focusing antagonism protesters instead of these types of groups. So. That's just enhance furred Howard University. Civil Rights Lawyer, Daryl I wanted to ask you. You talked about a tipping point. Is Part of why we're at this tipping point. The fact that Some of these right wing extremist groups now instead of finding. Government as the enemy may find a friend in government, because we have a president, who only under extreme duress will disavow. Right wing extremism in this country. Right, so the reason why we reached this tipping point is that government has neglected. This issue has not made it. A priority has even hit from it and avoided it for the past ten years, so we've had ten years of unprecedented growth each year. This move these movements we're talking about you know. Various White supremacist movements anti-government group's Melissa. Extremist sovereign citizens year after year. They've gained new recruits. More people get radicalized violent attacks, and so the momentum has grown year after year. We've neglected. Neglected this problem for so long it's GonNa. Take years for us to stop if we decided today, and had you know the top administration officials in a in a good strategy and we did a full court press on this problem. It'll still take years to slow the momentum of these violent hate. anti-government groups We also have a current administration right now. That's actually fueling this and this is the first time I've ever seen These types of movements flourish under a Republican Administration. K., typically, these groups flourished under democratic administrations, because they're fearful of their gun rights being infringed upon, or they're afraid of minority rights, being expanded or immigration being loosened. Typically, under Republican administrations, they don't have to worry about that, but yet this current administration fuels these movements through their rhetoric, and even their actions. You know pushing policies like building a border wall banning Muslims from coming into the country Labeling immigrants seeking asylum as invaders? These terms and positions that I saw on neo. Nazi and KKK websites ten to fifteen years ago and now the present United States is endorsing these things policy. so. You know the administration through with lack of. Action and calling out this threat has actually emboldened it and it and giving them a permissive environment to operate. So. It's a combination of a variety of things that's led us to this tipping point. If you're still monitoring right wing extremism in the United States through you're you're you're a private company here? Have you S-? You, are you concerned about what might happen between now and November as that that further inflaming happens, the closer we get to the election. Are you seeing a change in the pattern of of chatter or any any flags that are being raised in your analysis? Yes. Couple of things I'll mention two other new movements that have emerged since my report of Oh nine or the oath keepers, and the three percenters and the little clip you played about the Ferguson riots, and how the oath keepers were Kinda coddling with law enforcement. This problem of enforcement, and ties to extremism. In my opinion, because of oath keepers and three percenters has grown tenfold since that two thousand six F. B. I. Report. So, that's one area of concern and then we've got other movements like the Blue Blue Movement that want to hasten a civil war in this country. These people already believe we're in a rhetorical civil war, but they're actually preparing in planning for an actual physical civil war they've been stockpiling weapons and ammunition, and with the current pandemic, and you know the government's policies of social distancing and self quarantine and things like this. These people are getting agitated, not only because of the isolation of self quarantine, but they feel that the government is you know. Taking away their rights by implementing these policies. And, so you know we're kind of in this mix of you know. These groups are actively. Planning and plotting for a civil war. They're getting more paranoid. Fear has permeated these movements even more because the pandemic. So we're in a real bad situation right now. We'll Daryl Johnson standby for just a moment. Darryl was an analyst at the Department of Homeland Security. A decade ago he authored report, warning about right wing, extremism and domestic terrorism in this country. As you here, we are asking him if his concerns are even greater now we'll talk a little bit more about this question of law enforcement when we come back, this is on point. This is point magnetic Riccardi tomorrow on the show. We're going to be talking about schools again. It's a huge issue going to try and take multiple swings at it so tomorrow we're going to take a look at how schools internationally in several other countries that have we're trying to work their way out of this pandemic how they have opened or reopened their schools. What has worked? What hasn't worked? What ideas could we import realistically here into the United States? States, so we want to know if you listen internationally or if you have friends or who were abroad? What stories have you heard about efforts to reopen schools across our pandemic redon world? If you've heard from family or friends, let us know where six, one, seven, three, five, three, zero, six, eight, three, that six, one, seven, three, five, three, zero, six, eight, three. That's four the show tomorrow today. We are talking with Darrell Johnson. He is the owner of. Of analytics. It's a consulting firm for law enforcement that analyzes domestic terrorist activity. He spent years as a senior domestic terrorism analyst at the US Department of Homeland, security, and in two thousand nine, he issued a report warning about a precipitous rise in right wing extremism in this country that report received heavy criticism from conservatives and also wasn't defended by the Obama Administration. We're talking with Daryl today to see if he thinks anything has changed, and thus far he's. He's been telling us that. Yes, it has. It's just gotten worse well. We want to drill down a little bit more into this question of extremism in law enforcement, because there's a whole spectrum of concerns that are worthy of examination here, so let's go to Saint Louis for a moment because in Saint Louis last year, a December two, thousand, nineteen or two of two thousand, nine nineteen report found a large number of Saint Louis. Police officers had been posting. Racism or hateful comments online. Here's a news report from CBS. Affiliate K. M. O., V.. In Saint Louis. Reporting on the dismissal of two police officers who posted this kind of content online tonight to Saint Louis Police officers are no longer with the department. Both have been fired because of social media profiles facebook post from officers. Thomas may be and Ronald. Hasty were flagged by the plain view project. A two year review found messages that celebrated roughing up protesters, shooting criminals and expressing disgust for Islam. That's a report from December of two thousand nineteen. Now we should also note that at least sixty officers. Were found to have posted this content in the saint. Louis police departments and the Saint. Louis Circuit Attorney so concerned about this that she has banned a number of officers from even bringing cases to her office or issuing warrants. Because of their. Their racist content online, so let's turn now to detective Sergeant Heather Taylor. She's president of the ethical. Society of Police, which represents many black officers in Saint Louis Region region. She's a nightwatch homicide sergeant with the Saint. Louis Metro Police Department. Detective Sergeant Taylor Welcome to the program. Hello! So first of all. Can you tell me a little bit about what you have seen? In the department. Go ahead. I that there have been examples. We had warning signs for years that we had officers who were. Subscribing to extreme views who had extreme views on race, we have a web page called. We had a web page called cop talk and before smartphones. You logged in to your department email. Through this cop talk, well-paid Webpage which is associated with the Saint Louis Police, Association Police Officers Association, and when you would log into this web page, you scroll down a little bit, and you would see some of the most vile racist content, and you would see things like African Americans being referred to as monkeys, apes, the N. word, being used people in our community, being referred to as animals in this was before Michael Brown was killed. In our department allowed us to log in through this web page to get to your email and we saw it. We had officers for years who? Who'd use the N. Word and later on in their career? They're placed in specialized units and it's essentially a promotion more pay after using the N. Word, and we've seen it within our police department and the acceptance of these extreme views that were there and I won't. I will not subscribe to that everyone in law enforcement who was a white officer is is white nationalist, a white supremacists? That's an they are We have pockets of people in law enforcement who have been allowed to exist in continue these beliefs without being checked or terminated for these view, so when plain view came about and you had One of the names mentioned in the Kale Kate over the CBS or article that you just played. That piece was sergeant. Ron Hasty won't Sergeant Ryan hayseeds profile. Picture says Ron Nighthawk and Nighthawk is a security position in the clan and you had someone just in plain view. in plain view that had this facebook page name who had these extreme views? She had detective bakery. Who had these extreme views who was friends with other officers? That's what's so so insane. Is that that then culture of a violent? That allowed these guys to function as why force officers making decisions of Freedom sometimes. It was it was horrifying. Well Detective Sergeant if I may, you heard Darrell Johnson. The couple of minutes ago. Say that these that right wing extremist groups are are growing. That we have new movements that. Are, catering specifically to. Law Enforcement's. Possibly, even recruiting from law enforcement. Have you seen. Do you know if there's any evidence of that in your department. I wouldn't I wouldn't be surprised by it? I. Don't think most people were surprised by the plain view project. We weren't surprised by some of the names that were on their ended with this movement with the BOO. Boo Boys! They are extreme You have these extreme views, but we knew about some of this in two thousand and six when the FBI with the redacted. Report about. White supremacists infiltrating law enforcement and recruiting law enforcement personnel. We knew this then so I'm not shocked by Do I think that? there. Can I give you a number on that? I think that no number Really matters because it, it's one is enough to is enough the destruction that one person with these views can do can wreak on a community, especially community of color. A poor community is is enough to last a lifetime. I do believe there are pockets of people who are in I'm not shocked by any of this happening and I don't think most people within our police department are shot by the especially in I, also the president of the Ethical Society Police, which is A. Mostly Minority Police Association, so we have these mostly African American members who? Were really shocked by any of this not shocked by the stories of extreme views. No, we we most of us who have twenty plus years like myself. Lift through COP. Talk have been repeatedly complaining about officers with extreme views on. white supremacy, racist, posting lgbtq that have targeted people repeatedly. Well so detective Sergeant Taylor this is both chilling and. I opening and Darryl Johnson. Hang on here for just a second. Because this F. B. I. Report from two thousand six is actually come up a couple of times in our. And a one and see if there's been any a little bit forward movement on that, so joining us now from Washington is Representative Norma Torres. She's Democratic Representative for California's thirty fifth. Congressional district now last month, she and twenty-seven lawmakers requested that the DOJ released the full contents of this two thousand six F. B. I. Report. The report was titled White Supremacist Infiltration of Law Enforcement and it was released in a heavily redacted version. They're asking it to be released in full representative tourists. Welcome to you. Great to be with the magnetic today. So first of all, just tell me a little bit more has has the Department of Justice responded to your request to re fully released this Oh six FBI report. In currently they have not which is really unfortunate. You know we are working. We're we're in the process. right now. of of working around the issues of police brutality and to try to bring about some. and sanity back into our communities systematic releases has plagued this nation from the various start, and if if we fall short right now are failings will be felt for generations, so you know it's critically important that we fully know what is in that report that was written in two thousand six, and I'm so glad that Mister. Johnson is is on the phone with us because when when he warned us about. About the very same threat, the fact that many of the people who who were identified in two thousand instincts could be in leadership positions. Let's face it. These could be the recruiters out there in charge of hiring you know our future police officers and the found that you know. Congress has been denied this information for all of these years fourteen years to be exact you know to me is criminal in its. Face? Well representative me I just WANNA. Turn back to Gerald Johnson for a second here. Because the redacted version of this F. B. I. Report Daryl has a couple of take takeaways that that are there in plain print that the primary threat from infiltration or recruitment arises in the areas of intelligence collection. which can lead to investigate breaches jeopardize the safety of law enforcement. Personnel and sources themselves, and also says that white supremacists presence among law enforcement is a concern due to the access and power they possess that could be dangerous and harmful to elected officials or protected persons whom they are who they are, who the white supremacists the as a target for violence. Why can you? Can you explain to me at all? Darrell why the government would resist releasing the details, the full details of a report that was written in order to. Protect law enforcement and members of the government themselves. Yeah so for a long time. These people have hid behind the first amendment saying that they have the right to hate and that's true however when you're trying to build. Public Trust and Have an agency that may investigates members of your hate group you pose a operational security concern. You're an insider, potential insider threat I don't think anyone that belongs to a militia group or a white supremacy group should be any law enforcement position, and the shocking thing is is I actually worked on an article with reveal news last year where we identified over a hundred police officers who actively flaunted on their social media, they're extremists, affiliations, and none of the internal affairs or Invest Inspector. General. Were open to doing any type of administrative action against these individuals because they said it was their First Amendment right. To be part of a group. But they'll. Should they be in uniform exactly? In for the counterintelligence concerns the insider threat concerns. Operational security concerns and these things are raised in this FBI memo. In you know that doesn't instill trust in the police, department, when you have active members of militia, groups and hate groups in your among the ranks. Well, we have just a couple. Minutes left to go so detective. Sergeant Taylor. Let me let me turn back to you here for a second. You know as a serving officer right now. Who by the way I want to just express my gratitude for your courage, and speaking plainly about this and what you've seen in your own department. Just How do we begin? How do we begin to? To get a handle on this problem. What would you recommend that that is done? On the front end you don't hire people who have these extreme views because he's saying people like the boo-boys or killing law enforcement. It would just. It just seems like common sense that you do better background checks, and so on the back end what we have is multi-million dollar lawsuits and payouts outs when we hire people with extreme views on minorities with extreme views on Lgbtq all these people that have these extreme views are. A lot of times it comes out and it comes out on the back end where you have people who are murdered by law enforcement who are Wrongfully arrested by law enforcement and you have all these things that we could resolve on the front end of it by doing better background checks. of people were hiring. Spend a little more time with. These background checks, and before you give them. The powers of arrest in the power to take away freedom. Representative tourists have just got a couple of seconds left I I wonder. You're pushing to get this two thousand six FBI report. Fully released, but Don't. We already know enough about reasons to be concerned. And if so, what is there anything that can be done safe from the congressional level? Absolutely we know enough, and is why the justice and policing act is so important. You know it has. On their an issue that I worked on very closely, and that's the decertification of police officers We need to ensure that police departments are are able to decertified. You know problem officers the more importantly last week I successfully included language in the Commerce Justice Science Appropriations Bill that requires the Justice Department who the committee on White, supremacist infiltration, and the steps that they've taken to address it, so it's a huge victory is a step in the right direction. We do know enough. You know to ensure that we get the justice and policing act passed now. And then as Daryl's been talking to US beyond policing as well, he remains profoundly concerned about. White supremacy and far right. Right wing extremism as we head towards that November twenty, twenty election so representative Norma Taurus Detective Sergeant Heather Taylor and Darryl Johnson. Thank you to the three of you so very much for joining us today, and by the way at on point radio DOT ORG. We've got links to all the reports. We've been talking about this hour. Check it out. I magnin shocker Bardy. This is on point.
AP Headline News Mar 13 2019 16:00 (EDT)
"Cheltenham festival is here. It was another big Bruce betting dot com. Racing special. You would existing customers place. A bet on the first race each day of Cheltenham, get your money back as a free benefit it loses. Stay close to the action with Bruce betting dot com in store online and on your phone Bruce betting, giving you more. These responsibly. AP radio news, I'm Ed Donahue. Check your airline. If you booked flight and the plane, the Boeing seven thirty-seven max, they are grounded immediately, the AP saga megani has more many nations said already barred the jets from their airspace after an Ethiopian Airlines crash, but the US had held off with the FAA saying he did not have data showing the models were unsafe. President Trump's citing new information all of those planes are grounded effective immediately say the decision did not have to be made. But it's the right one out of a paramount concern for safety. I felt it was important both psychologically and a lot of other ways. These Boeing insists the plane is safe but supports a temporary grounding saga megani at the White House. Trump's former campaign manager was sentenced to prison again a human basis. It's very sad thing I feel badly for a judge in Washington sentence. Paul Manafort to three and a half years in prison last week a sentence from another judge in a different case was almost four years. The AP's Chad day reports Manafort apologized, but the judge didn't consider it sincere. She said, you know, you've shown a pattern of deception a pattern of lies, and that she wasn't fully convinced that he was really taking responsibility for his actions. Britain's parliament voted to reject having the country leave the European Union without a divorce agreement a decision that lessons, but does not remove the chance of a chaotic no deal Brexit, the exit at the end of the month might be delayed seven hundred thirty seven inmates on the nation's largest death row. Got a reprieve today from California governor Gavin Newsom. There are innocent people on death row. There are guilty people on death row and those. People are not going to be let out by this act. They will be held to account. A magnitude five point five earthquake hit the southern flank of Hawaii's killed away of. Okay. No, no immediate reports of damage or injuries kill away as one of the world's most active volcanoes. This is AP radio. News. Another court appearance in Chicago for our Kelly, the AP Margie's, our leda has the story judge in our Kelly's child support case has sealed it and prohibited attorneys from talking to the media Kelly was in court Wednesday and his publicist. Darrell Johnson says Kelly wants his payments lowered. Kelly was jailed earlier this month for failing to pay more than one hundred sixty thousand dollars in back child support Kelly was freed after his friends and family put up the money. According to Johnson, Kelly attorney Steve Greenberg was asked why Kellie cannot pay if you can't go out on your if they're not streaming your music anymore. Obviously, you're going to have financial problems Marci zaraleta. Chicago lawyers for late. New England Patriots player. Aaron Hernandez are criticizing the Massachusetts supreme court decision to reinstate his murder conviction. The court scrap the legal principle that raised Hernandez's conviction after he killed himself in prison in 2017. Hernandez was convicted of murder in two thousand fifteen I'm Ed Donahue, AP radio news.
AP Headline News Mar 06 2019 19:00 (EST)
"Okay, guys. Welcome to our keyword AGM. Planning quarterly review central meeting. Business can be complicated. But travel doesn't have to be with my taxi business. You can download receipts and manage multiple bookings online make the smarter choice of mytalk taxi dot com. Radio news. I'm Tim McGuire. President Trump's former attorney Michael Cohen turnover documents today in a private session with the house intelligence committee chairman Adam Schiff, we had requested documents of Mr. Cohen. He has provided additional documents to the committee. There may be additional documents that he still has to offer and his cooperation with our committee continues. Sources say those documents include the written false statement, he delivered to congress in two thousand seventeen in his public testimony last week Cohen said Trump's attorney reviewed and edited that statement Arizona Republican Senator Martha mcsally the first female fighter pilot to fly in combat said during a Senate committee hearing a military sexual assault. She was raped by a superior officer and felt powerless when she tried to report it horrified at how my attempt to share. Generally, my experiences were handled. I almost separated from the air force at eighteen years over my despair. Like many victims. I felt this system was raping me all over again. Okay. Mic. Sally did not go into much detail about her assault. She didn't name any names of focusing instead on the need for accountability at the commander level on down and the improvements. She's already seen in the system the world's longest-serving TV game show host says he has staged for cancer AP entertainment, correspondent Margie zaraleta? With more. Alex trebek's says an video announcement. He's always been open with jeopardy viewers. He did not want them to read overblown reports about his health tra- back who is seventy eight says he was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer this week. And normally the prognosis is not very encouraging. He says he plans to fight and keep working truth told I have to because under the terms of my contract. I have to host jeopardy for three more years. Trebek's has hosted jeopardy for thirty five seasons. I'm Archie zaraleta? This is AP radio. News are Kelly back in the Cook County jail for failing to pay one hundred sixty one thousand dollars in back child. Support his publicist Darrell Johnson in end, nobody wins, the key steel still have any money. So at the end of the day. He's locked up Andrew and her kids. They don't have anything Johnson says Kelly could pay up to sixty thousand dollars, but didn't have any more money because it hasn't been able to work last month. Kelly was charged with ten counts of aggrava-. Rated sexual abuse in an interview with Gayle king of CBS this morning Kelly insisted he never sexually abused women or control their lives or kept them against their will. Crazy passing what I've been through. Oh, right now, I just think I need to be lost in whole girls against a wheel chain them up in my basement. And and don't let them eat. And don't let them out. More of the CBS interviews expected to air tomorrow. Three of the four women accusing him of assault were underage at the time of the alleged incidence. I'm Tim Maguire, maybe radio news.
AP Headline News Mar 07 2019 08:00 (EST)
"I'm Jay Farner, CEO of Quicken Loans, America's premier home purchase lender. We've created a new way to protect you from unpredictable interest rates are exclusive rate shield approval. I we lock your interest rate for up to ninety days. Then if rates go up your rate stays locked. But if rates go down your rate drops either way you win. Call us today at eight hundred quicken or go to rocketmortgage dot com, racial approval. Only valid on certain thirty year fixed rate loans. Call for cost information and conditions. Equal housing lender. Licensed in all fifty states NMLS number thirty additional conditions are exclusions may apply. Fly daily with Qatar Airways from Dublin and embark on an unforgettable journey to one of more than one hundred and sixty destinations worldwide, including Perth, Capetown, Singapore and the Maldives via Doha book now what Qatar Airways dot com, Qatar Airways going places together. A radio news. I'm Rita Foley. There's new information about a Trump administration program requiring asylum seekers to wait in Mexico. The AP has learned the border agents have been told targets Spanish speakers and migrants from Latin America, the Trump administration launched the program in January a major shift in the handling of immigrants seeking asylum explicitly targeting Spanish speakers in Latin Americans had not been previously disclosed though critics say it's no surprise considering recent arrests have largely involved central Americans internal guidelines obtained by the Associated Press also lay out which immigrants are not to be sent back to Mexico pregnant, women, LGBT migrants and people suffering medical issues. That's an addition to Mexican asylum seekers and children, travelling alone. I'm Ben Thomas it sentencing. Dave or Paul Manafort, former Trump campaign chairman, he. He could go to prison for twenty years for tax and Bank fraud, though observers don't think he'll get that much time. Prosecutors have said he worked on behalf of politicians in Ukraine who were closely aligned with Russia. The air force is apologizing to Arizona. Senator more thick Sally after she stunned colleagues by revealing yesterday, the when she was in the military, a superior officer raped her. She spoke at a Senate hearing on sexual assault in the military. I was horrified at how my attempt to share. Generally, my experiences were handled. I almost separated from the air force at eighteen years over my despair. Like many victims. I felt the system was raping me all over again. She was the first female air force fighter pilot to fly in combat and served for twenty six years. Alex trebek's promising to fight stage, four pancreatic cancer. He's seventy eight and says he knows it will be a tough fight. This is AP radio news. Singer R Kelly is in jail in Chicago for not making child-support payments. The judge handling archilles child support case in Chicago says the singer cannot go free until he makes good on the one hundred sixty one thousand dollars he owes. But can you do that you can't pay as you know, he hadn't worked in a little time? He can't bookshelves. He can't do anything spent a lot of things going on Mr. Kelly's life or Kelly's Representative. Darrell Johnson says the singer was prepared to pay fifty or sixty thousand dollars when he showed up in court yesterday. What was taken into custody when he couldn't pay the full tab. I'm Oscar wells Gabriel is the most expensive car ever sold a one off Bugatti luxury sports car that's been sold for almost nineteen million dollars. The Gotti calls it simply the black car. It's a low slung sports car with a huge sixteen. Cylinder engine and Bugatti trademark front grille. I'm Rita Foley. AP radio news. Five our teen with caffeine from green tea leaves. It's delicious energizing incomes in three amazing flavors with zero sugar and four calories. It fits your life with its compact size import ability. It goes where you go to the campsite, the hiking trail the beach without weighing you down five our T caffeine from green tea, leaps. Release your natural side from the makers of five hour energy. For more information, visit five hour, energy dot com. And then she told me that her granddaughter, John. Are you listening to me? Of course, we'll the why are you on your phone ignoring your poor mother who only loves you and wants to spend time with you. I was doing some banking on the Wells Fargo mobile app. And I got carried away pay your bills done. Check your balances done deposit checks done even send him receive money. Are you update your status right now with the Wells Fargo mobile app, it's easy to get banking done? Learn more at wellsfargo dot com slash get banking done. Wells Fargo Bank N A. Member FDIC.
TSF Quarantine Episode 18: (3rd) Thursday with Eddie
"Good Morning Eddie. Volts happy Thursday or whatever day it is Thursday march ninety four ninety four years into it. They're just I said to a friend yesterday on the phone which I have an unbelievable phone story for you. I said yesterday on the phone it feels the weekends feel different but Monday through Friday. Feel like groundhog day. You're like I don't know now. I'm doing the same thing I did yesterday and I have to do it again tomorrow. And then it's my sabbath and then it Sunday. I do know that that's as much as I know right because they're so exactly the same like everything I'm wearing and wearing generally the thing hitting record a talking to you then we stop. Girls are outside. Hello Good Morning. It's another window and a few days there. Well we've all we've all been taken advantage of the fact that we can just sleep in and so hold on. Why are we getting up at seven? Let's say well why not. We can just do an extra forty five minutes on the back end of the school day and yes so groundhog day. And you're on the phone last night it doesn't it I just. You aren't even ready for what happened to me yesterday. I literally just picking up my cup of Coffee Long. It won't be long okay. Dare I went. Finish my work day did the many. Bff Book Club went and worked out in. My neighborhood came back and did a little work at my house and then it was time to face time with my friends. Share all for her birthday. Cheryl Happy Birthday Cheryl and I have an IPHONE ragging go. Hey Siri. And she's about to say she thinks I'm talking to a right now. Syria does I. Can I can say her name. And then I can say facetime Cheryl and then it ranks right up problem. What could possibly go wrong so wrong. That's very normal and Cheryl is a very unique name. Yeah Yeah Yeah you're not. You're not saying like Matt or twenty of them in there. That's right and for full disclosure. Now I don't need to full disclosure. We'll just tell the story. Well that that that made it more interesting is that there was something to fully disclose that you did. Yeah so we can just roll with it there with it. Yeah Yeah and I say her name. Hi Hey S I. R I facetime Cheryl and I'm across the room because that's modern technology and share. Siri says back to me face. Timing Darrell Johnson. Will I have not talked to this and years? Yeah I don't we would never face time we didn't. We were like a romantic thing that did not work and I am faced having him from across the room any no. Oh I ran over there so fast and hit in his I mean and I just felt Nelson our. You made it on what is happening. What do I what what? What's the next move any so grateful that e that? Siri says facetime calling Daryl whatever that you have that moment of just of realization that you have a split second by which to do the probably the best part of your workout which was a full on unbelievable in my socks sprint across the House yes and so you never never call them now. And for full disclosure that will full disclosure that some details have been changed. The safety of everyone every name I sat whole story is one hundred percent. Okay you'll text me all the real names at some point right so I know so because I'm like Damn Johnson. You really just blew this guy on. Oh I I couldn't I don't I still have asking an actual question. What do I do because I I? It's happened it should happen. I'm throwing my phone or the ocean. I'm starting life but so it'd never connected with them on his phone. It's certainly says missed. Facetime call from Franny Hugh downs CETERA. Not using real names right Why it didn't just turning to G and announced funnier. So is the question is it depends on what kind of narrative you want. Do we want Roy. Com Narrative is actually like like the acute way you guys reconnect or would that actually be a bad scenario and we just need this to go away and we need to figure out a plan B if he text you and goes like hey did I miss a facetime call from The thing that we don't really have to solve this the thing that that I want. I don't I had to tell you because I think it's the worst thing that can happen to a person. I mean as soon as I hang up and I called shares she said Mid Pandemic. I love it. It's the worst thing that could happen. Great Void great point in my current traps life when the world is upside down and I do not know what day of the week it is. This is as emotionally taxing. A thing could happen to. I know I get it. It's like that moment when you know when you've crossed over from having to P to like you know you're going to be your pants now. That terror is I was like I would rather be chased by a person with the knife. Then feel what I'm feeling right now. I'm about to pee myself on a I think Sheryl's birthday and we still spent the first six minutes meter hitting my head on the table going. What are the chances that would happen to me? Cheryl and I said your name clearly. I'm find that because the bills need to be changed. I can't tell you why it's totally it is totally fine. It's totally fine and great and whatever that happened. Yeah but the story itself is horrifying. It's just horrifying. This story is horrifying. We all empathize. We'll also I rarely break the fourth wall here but speaking on behalf of the listeners one of the best parts of this story was hearing you tiptoe around every single detail of it from the very beginning of it. What is happening choppy? Just want to tell you the story and it's just not fair to not do it and I can change. I change enough. That it's fine with everyone and but it's one hundred percent. The story is one hundred percent. Yeah Oh my gosh well I mean my life my like. How does that happen? Well I mean Syria is kind of awful. She does miss stuff all the time. I know I can't I can't use it anymore. There's some across the room any my for sure. I think that's the problem. I think that the further away you get probably there's somebody that actually knows the answer to this but the less accurate it gets and and I think that if you have got someone like deer all who design with someone like share all maybe we don't play it so fast and loose with house no. I didn't never crossed my mind because I even somebody said her last name No. I didn't say her last name and then series said his last name and I was like I didn't say that I didn't say that you know I didn't say the next series should have said. Do you mean Cheryl. And I'd have been like her she says. Do you mean dare on even like no no. No Oh my Gosh I know Daryl I this is not how I want to facetime Daryl. And that's not what Siri said. Sarah didn't check in with me. She usually checks in with me. If I'm trying to facetime Eddie and Bryanne Siri goes. Did you mean facetime? Eddie Brandt yes series. Of course I did. I said that the one time. I wish he'd double checked with me. She just moved right. Maybe maybe she was just excited. That she too was the part. The center of the beginning of Rome Com sh series. I've I've been waiting for this here here here. I don't WanNa be the Labor this but I do want to ask if this is a is a solution. What if you went through the names of everybody man or woman? It's not just all old beaus. But he would. Maybe it's like a really important business contact or someone in your phone. That's very fancy. Like oh my gosh. I don't WanNa like accidentally message Beth. More although she would probably be totally great with it. I'll you know what I'm saying like all this would be embarrassing and just put an X. in front of their first name. So Siri thinks it's like like now. This is an interesting idea. Thinks the name is external and you could never support suppose a person did have X.'s. And their phone like ex boyfriends ex girlfriend's ex partners ex friends you thought of it just as the letter X. because it's just almost to say yes. Yes yes but you're right but I'm I'm thinking out loud here. The option is do you delete their phone number forever. You break up in two thousand twelve do you. Do you delete their phone number forever. Or are you? Do you put an X. in front of it so that there is no way you ever see them. Call them but if they ever call you. It's not a number you don't know and you answer it. See that's my reason for not deleting it because what I don't want you to see is like New York number wondering that pick it up and as its Daryl and he's like wondering if you're up if you wanNA facetime or something you know his daryl in six weeks calling me in the middle of the night wondering if I've wondered why facetime you WanNa know if Daryl's creeping so that's classic Darrell Moody Single Listening. What's your advice as a councilor as a pastor as a father two daughters as a person who dated and then got married over? What do you? What do you do with phone numbers in your phone if people that you are no longer dating? Yeah I mean I I don't actually know and so I am not speaking from my typical ivory tower. But I would say for this moment. Typically do anything to your soul to like. Didn't lake make you flutter every time you scroll pass it if it's just data it's all just data and a phone. I mean I have. I have my guy that used to do our pool two houses ago in there why who knows because exciting about having a pool. Yes well what sorry. It's not it's not a Brag and Florida hits like an assumption. But it's just like you know who cares ever you who's going to go through but I do feel like though if there is like one of those check your your soul tells you everything if there's a little check in their words a little it's a little exciting to have that boy it made me. She'll something when I see that then. It's not just a data point and a phone with a million other phone numbers and random emails and were people that you don't talk anymore from two jobs ago and to me. I'm like I'll get rid of the thing so for me. It's like Darrell. Darrell seems like a punchline to a story that you're telling on podcast but if it's like an actual thing like Oh oh. Oh my and that thing isn't healthy for you and you've determined that in better moments that it's not healthy. Then I try to get rid of that altogether. Yeah because you just temptation is hard I mean and I and why mess with it just why you know I just. I think it's different for people. Get into that Billy Graham role and dog on it as well. We've talked about this. The Billy Graham thing. No we don't really probably can if you onto. Why did I had? I had a choice to just talk about whatever else I wanted. And that's what I walked into. Do you want to go back and the person you wish you were? Kinda but the person so yeah anyway it talking about it is the person you wish that is who I am. I just yeah. I don't always know how to filter that through people listening skills for a second. I was like I forgot. It was just chatting and then I remember I feel about changing names like it's not like the person I wish I was. I tell the whole story but the person I have to be is changing the names and some details so that everyone feels safe in my life. Yeah I I actually don't WanNa get into the whole Billy Graham role because I think it just lights up and this is supposed to be a half hour of our morning altogether. Where we're getting are getting her life going thinking a little bit about where we're at with the pandemic and we're laughing a bit and talk about heroes but I will just say I take very seriously in my own life. The avoidance of temptation and I always trust the instincts that I had when my head was clear versus when my head is not clear so to to me I just I do not make good choices when I'm at all emotionally invested in a thing so like like I was upset about something this morning before we started the show and it's just a thing with a it's A. It's an every now that we've worked at no. It has nothing to do with relationships that has to do with just a purely business thing. It's not even I. It's just a business thing in my life and I it just a situation I don't love and I'm GonNa through it and I. I knew I had to show a reply text to Brian before a Senate because I wasn't I just I don't operate well without a clear head. So to many if the Darrell in your phone when you have a nice clear head and everything's happy if that's like ooh I don't I don't like seeing that that doesn't make me feel good. That makes me WANNA text a person. I've told myself before I shouldn't text. Don't ever think it. Just avoid the avoid the difficulty. Just get rid of it but then if it's just nothing but a joke well who cares. Just leave it in there. So you know if Darryl calls. And he's being Classic Daryl your price by the phone number. They will just come a time when we are all allowed to be in the same places again when we were when we are all back at speaking events and I will be able to tell the story from a stage. This is a great stage story with a little though this stage. I'm telling you it on currently as a stage right mainly me telling you like Eddie. You have walked so many of these men stories with me in the last. I don't know six years that I you can't imagine that I face time Darryl of all the people to be fair. Serey did know. But there's five bazillion context in there and almost any of them would have been better. I I mean just is doing out of yeah. Yeah just purely out of. If if I'M GONNA facetime Daryl I want to do it on my own. I want to do it on my own. I WanNa do it because I want to do it now because he wants to do here. You talk about this all day. The land we I already wanted to lead the whole show and start over. But we're just going with it sixteen minutes and I think it is a very funny story about something else totally. I have something to talk about. Real talk show talk that we don't even have to edit out. People can just hear US talking. I do think it's fine. I don't think there's been anything. Identifying are weird. So I'm I feel like it's okay but here's what I want to. I would like to talk to you about a hypothetical and I would like to late. Let's pretend like I just did that. Mine has nothing to do with my toward love life. Okay and Gosh. You don't start. Let's say hypothetically a friend who you're friends with gets invited to go over to a buddy's house guys off and the and the the plans this a female friend of mine is invited to a guy's house or a male male female but make it all easy buddy to buddies. Let's do two guys. Okay guys got. And here's the plan. He gets his own camp chair but in the car and he's also to bring his own camp chair and anything he wants to drink so you bring your own Soda You bring Your Own Whatever. You WanNA drink a glass of wine. Yeah we're working in the days of a pandemic where you need to show stinks fully and the plan is get in your car drive to the other friends yard. There's other friends there for to be precise there's for an all. Everybody is sitting at least seven feet apart from each other. They chat for an hour. They pick up their chairs. Get back in their car drive home. No one goes inside of house no and uses the bathroom if you have to potty. There's woods but there's nobody on the bathroom. There's nobody shaking hands. Do you feel okay about that. One hundred percent. I think that social distancing at its finest great. That's what I did last night and it was incredible. Yeah it was incredible. Yeah it's great right any. It was tell me what felt so great about it. First of all I mean we just have like the whole country. We've been taking the social distancing very like very seriously and so forth three weeks. I have not seen anything. Except for grocery store. That is like a two minute by great way and our property and so it was nice just to be in a car and be out a little bit. The second thing is it was nice to chat with just to hear my friends voices and just chat with them. Because we're not really good friends and so I actually have not talked to them a couple of weeks. The third thing is they all have interesting jobs that I I that was like one is in healthcare and so we were all about that one is in local government and so we're hearing all about that in the third one who was by far. The most interesting is a high school teacher and the hilarity and normally there's not a lot that's funny in this situation. The hilarity of him having to wrangle hundreds of high schoolers on zoom is unreal. Like it is the funniest thing because I have long held that the funniest. You've that a person ever is or at least the funniest I feel like I've ever been in. My whole life is tenth grade. Really think you are the funniest tenth grade. Oh yes because I had. I don't think smart. Maybe I wasn't as quick but I was completely uninhibited. There was no filter and none of us had a filter. The filter was just make your friends laugh and they make you laugh and it was awful stuff that I would look back and go like bleach made that joke. But but when you genuinely don't have that filter you know better. You're as funny as you can be and I mean I'm dying so he's telling stories of the amount of work that he's had to do as zoom administrator ipe kids from doing the most vile stuff anonymously and it's not it's not like it is gross. Vile the kids are misbehaving. Like tenth graders misbehave just being dumb right like if he does not make it so that they can't change their own names. Oh sure it's and he's telling me names and I can't repeat one of them to share it. It's the funniest I mean. I'm I was sitting there just like snotty crying. It's the funniest thing how little these are good. Kids these are right and in an IB class. They just don't have it in them when they realized the field is possible to be changed. They're going to change that name and then I mean so. He's just going through scenario in scenario how he's had to lockdown zoom and. I am telling you the teachers are a special kind of hero but also teachers figuring out zoom with high schoolers are another level of hero because high schoolers are just so like my kids. Have my kids have no idea how again do they don't really understand? Internet? And so it's all just like sure I'll click this and it starts to teach me the math. They don't have your job but over the high schoolers do and it was my favorite thing. Yeah that's fair and just seeing people in person is amazing right so to hear the story over facetime. You laughed to see the full expression and to be in someone else's presence is next level and it was just lovely and it was different and also it was at the end of the night. I was like nice to come home it was. Here's my friends. It was free. It's breed. I have long had like one of a very important rhythm of our marriage has been us forcing to miss the other person with I J easier travel more but that's actually been really good for us. We have pretty frequent. You know in old world times apart go with our own friends do our own thing before Khurana. Anyway it was lovely and it was great and I'm glad the hypothetical worked out because I was driving back and I was like should I have done this. Is this a bad example? Just I've done that twice where we go and sit in the yard and eat dinner. We bring our own food same thing. Bring our own chairs and sit in someone else's yard and six we all every time we sit six feet apart and every time we talk and I don't touch like I had to walk through someone's Gate Two nights ago three nights ago and didn't even touch their gate knob. They yet and I will say if your host one of these parties. I would be as thoughtful as my friend John. He like gate was open chairs out. He had lysol the chairs because he just every you know everybody everybody today. Maybe Romance John's John John. Would Welfare's Don will never listen to this because he will never listen to podcasts. And if he did he would never admitted to me. And we'll just move on me. He's he's the right kind of friend if you're on a gas that think you're funny. He is what I would assume to is like your Daryl. Yeah I'm your only. Here's your level of discomfort like candy to my soul. I know that's why I had to. I sacrificed tell you on. I wanted to tell you right when we jumped on but I didn't mean to see people uncomfortable makes me happy. Thank you for this one thing under. I wrote this on my list yesterday. One thing we are under seeing people take advantage of is food trucks rising to you. I mean 'cause we're ordering from restaurants and picking them up but I feel like there should be more food trucking than there is. I feel like they're still in operation but it would seem as though this is the golden age of food trucks. You would think so but I feel like I don't hear people talking about ordering from them. I don't hear or see on the Internet. Food truck owners reminding US where they are. I wonder if there's some reason they can't operate well. Maybe this is state by state. Like I know they're operating in Gainesville but I would feel as though they would be like I feel I. I realize I say like a lot. It's kind of tick. I'd like to stop saying that I've listened back to a share. They say it all the time and I know what I'm doing. I'm giving my brain stutter. Step to come up with the thought but keep talking and all I need is just that little clique but it sure it's a way of replacing 'em but I need to stop saying that I on the top of my preaching notes on every single whoops on every single talk. It says do not say right question Mark Right. I say slow down a lot when I'm aging. Yeah you save right. I say to myself to slow down because I will come out of the gates. And here's half my sermon in the first four minutes. Now what do I do for thirty minutes? Right Right Yeah I do feel that food trucks. It is interesting. I don't know what the reason is. I feel as though food trucks would be in every parking lot of every major grocery store and completely blown out because they define social distancing. I mean you're usually not anywhere close to a person and people are really good about standing in lines in a social distancing line in stand six feet apart my friend. John was also telling me a story last night they were actually at a local donut. Food truck it's really popular here and everybody's doing such a good job really people are working hard. Stand six feet apart and these three college students who by the way many college students are getting this because they feel as though they're invincible some of them are seriously some of them are not and I'm in a college town and he's three college students just like saunter up and it's like why is everybody in this weird line and and you could just tell like you said like but you can just tell that there's a chance they have no idea what's going on. They're just they're just thinking that schools got cancelled for some reason and whatever I would like to go get a donut and we're just living our best life right and it is can't talk about college kids but we can talk about because I love him. I didn't tell it's the second funniest time in your life. Yeah they're great. I love living in a town full of costumes. It is one of my favorite parts of my life. I would be sad not to live in a college town. I for oh I do too. It's vibrant and fun and both Orlando and Gainesville. Been Greek. College towns always good food. There's always arise at Orlando is a college town. Sorry well it's a big town but it also has a huge college in it and so if you live closer to the University of Central Florida Oh sure yeah yeah. It's not a big football. They think they were yeah. They were a big football school right. Yeah but I mean here Georgia. Fatima gator Fan. I think we don't even like each other. We can both agree. Ucf is not a football school Shannon. I want you all to get on twitter and blast me today about that and feeds my soul. Lamey love it. I love disliking. Ucf honestly grade school would be very proud of my children went there it's Cetera et Cetera. But say all that stuff now. Seventy thousand Satan's there though it's doughnut truck in your town. Do you love it? I'd love a doughnut truck. I do you know have very strong opinions about these donuts. So what's the GO-TO donut? For you like when you go like I'm not gonNA stop this. I'm going to crack this code. I've got to stop this. And what's your favorite if you go to a new doughnut place? What's the first donut that helps you baseline for the quality? So if I go to a Thai place I'm GonNa Chicken Param Tie Spicy. That's what I'm GonNa Order. I've had that at every restaurant. Then I'll explore the menu and subsequent visits. But that's what I have to judge. What's your baseline don't and then I'm GONNA blow your mind with mine please okay. Oh wow my very favorite is maple glazed but what? I started with chocolate glazed. But my favorite maple glazed chocolate people quizzed. Chocolate glazed is a great. I think the one I like treasure is an apple fritter but I'm not there so big. I'm not going to order one bad and have a bad experience. So I'm going to lean toward a chocolate glaze and a maple glaze and as my baselines Appleford or so huge because they are clearly one of the best doughnuts ever made. But that's always the thing I go to donate king in Orlando and trying to get one donut in an apple. Fritter is eleven doughnuts. It's eleven nights. You tell yourself right. I'M GONNA cut this up an ego like a cake but not I'm going to eat it like a whole thing but yes yes and I not. So wherever I? They're they're as big as your hand. I mean they are literally the size of your hand my hand and I and I love him. There's two in town that rival each other and are pretty pretty rivalry. There's Fox's doughnut din load. Yes it's their apple fritters UN- unbelievable and then there's Dixon donuts. It's kind of out in the burbs a little bit. And they are they they are. They have a stamp. They put on their boxes. Home of the Best Apple. Fritters billy settle down now. What's your what's your baseline. What do you test with sour cream? Doughnut you really. What if they don't have that? I haven't had one of those is along than it is definitely out of the running of a donor place. I like So if they don't have a sour cream if they don't have the one cake doughnut free our sour cream doughnut. And if you've never people have never had a sour cream doughnut it is deceptive. There's nothing savory about it. It is a sweet glaze over top of the whole thing that does have its base and sour cream but the name sour cream does to seize it. It's you don't have to worry. A lot of people know that sour cream is used in sweet. Things does data things they do. Do they just WANNA release here? I asked you if Darryl knows and and then you didn't hear me and then it got quiet and they'll say now I'm sweating that I don't like it. No no don't I just googled sour cream. Donuts just because I hadn't seen him in so long. How do they make those? How cream donuts always have that different shape that little lip that moat is that I don't know but a sour cream doughnut to me for my palate. There could be nothing better and I'm glad to see their picture again. Spalding donuts in Kentucky has the finest donuts sour cream doughnut. I've ever had Kentucky. Has Incredible donuts. People were asking on the Internet about Your Life in Kentucky. Do you want to say why you lived in Kentucky? Yes we're also admitted thirty one and I WANNA make sure. Because we've got another seventy four shows to go so do I just put life in Kentucky on my on my thing. Yeah Yeah and then talking about the done it yeah. I think I've talked enough about the donut. Other than to say maple glazed. Great Baseline Donut Sour Cream Griping. I'm curious what people's baseline doughnut. Is that judges a place to. That's an aunt. I'd love to know the best and I would love to know so. I have not been to this local doughnut shop. Because right now it's the best donuts in Gainesville and people seem to really like it. I also know that I have massively high standards because I've had the opportunity to travel and have amazing donuts mighty doughnuts and Seattle. Forget it. You can You cannot that is a good the foxes den in Nashville. You cannot find a better donut than that north lime in Lexington Cana- donut will stop your whole life. Why would I possibly eat a halo? Donut if it's not as good. Yeah but how are you going to? Now I'm going to have to be a big brave and selfless sour cream doughnut. And see if I like. It might be at some point deering before we finish these shows. I would like you to do that. But also you can handle your health and your eating however you want to whether sour cream doughnut is right for you right now in the middle of a corn team. I don't know what love it has to be because if it's not then I'm I'm trying really hard to care about health but part of that is it. It pleases me to have a donut on a Saturday. So gotTA figure out a way to make you know Sunday through Monday. Not a place where I also can say the same statement. I enjoy having a donut on Tuesday. They really enjoy having a donut on Wednesday. I enjoy I I mean I. I don't know if I've ever talked about the time that my friends and I thought it would be wise to donut eating contest and it is you think you just always think you can eat more than you can eat. You always sake with as much as I love these. I Bet I could fill in the blank and you can't fill in the blank you can't you can't do what you think you can do. Yeah N- or you can and you don't want to know that but either way. Why are we doing all we can to eat all we can? That's my problem. I've never done eating contest and I feel very confident that there that the switch in me never goes off. Because I've never felt that's the problem. That's why you need to do one because I thought the same thing and then I did one and I was like oh. I actually do have a limit. I thought I was limitless in my hot donuts from Christie crispy cream intake and I am very limited. I don't WanNa talk about crispy cream either. You hate them. I don't hate them but I don't get it. They're fine even the hot ones. You don't get yeah. They're fine but I mean it's just a dessert dessert but people talk about these donuts as if they are the be all end all of donut and I always just want to ask people. I see that this is a good donut. Have you never been to Donut? King in Orlando and gotten the same exact donut from there. And if you ate them side-by-side objectively this better. Don't they're just not sure? If you north lime in Lexington will serve you the same looking. Doughnut eat them. Both that is a better doughnut. I just don't understand but I I appreciate the hot and ready. I appreciate the whole mystique. They have great branding their a nice company teams. I get it but I'm always shocked. People say that's their favorite doughnut. Sure no I don't I would. I would agree with you. I would not say. It's my favorite donut. I'd say when me and to call male college athletes decided it. Yeah Vandy Boys. When we decided to that we really wanted to eat that there was a contest to be had. I thought I can do and I could not do. You really peered into your private life today haven't we everybody knows about my Mandy Boys. I love this kid. That's not oh because I I. You can't imagine how much I wanNA delete this show. I'm not going do it? We're just going to let it go. Ooh Let's talk about heroes. You WANNA START I do. I have a real one. Sorry to turn the corner so sharply though. Don't talk is very close to my heart but I heard about yesterday and I think it's been around for a couple of weeks but I'm just missing it. There was this Asian American Christian collective of just a prominent asian-american leaders church leaders academics designers. Just got together that wrote one of these statements. And we've seen these statements pop up over the past few years when kind of a group of people feels as though it is time for them to say something collectively and some of them have been unifying. Some of them have been polarizing. Some of them have been unifying in their polarizing. But this statement It's a statement on anti-racism in the time of covert nineteen and they wrote this statement And it really just. The basis of it is says in the last two weeks of March of Twenty Twenty Asian Americans have reported nearly one thousand incidents of racism and without mitigation. We expect the number to rise in the weeks ahead. And so it's really coming from and I really would encourage people I'll tweet out a link to it But to to read the the entirety of it but kind of a part of the base of this is the idea that this cove nineteen is from from China You know in some people even called the Chinese flu and so they wrote this really impassioned beautiful statement on like we. We need to change the rhetoric. This broadly because this is actually damaging for actual people and I heard about this from a friend Who who who was deeply affected by is Asian American and also. Just he's the best person I mean. He's honestly I think in terms of character of human. He may be the best person I've ever met and I love him just deeply and we worked together and he doesn't feel safe going for a run and he's not crazy like he shouldn't he shouldn't he doesn't feel safe and rightly so and I just broke my heart and so I guess I guess the long story short. I don't want to use this as my pulpit but the people that wrote it are heroic for doing that because it is scary for me it would be scary and again. I sent in a place of privilege all the time but to put yourself out there and to all of the people on social both agent Americans and people who are not who who have been supporters of who have signed it. I just I think it's very heroic. Stand up and say we we we get better so and we can use our voice. So I'm doing using my voice in encourage others to do with the same two. That's that was my hero for yesterday. One of the weird offshoots of all of this is that Anti Asian racism which I think we can't have so. That's my thanks. It's great yeah I was on the phone yesterday with a friend of mine and we are both former elementary school teachers and we are talking about the complexity of schools like the state of Georgia said. No one's going to school this year and yesterday the governor said that and you think man those there are so many kids who are in bad situations and the teachers know and the teachers have to figure out like like it's not even about educating them. It's how do you go to sleep at night? Knowing that some of the kids you were concerned about all year. You don't see again and and so teachers today are my are the People. I can't quit and I mean of course the children and the situations and the you know all that too but we only do one hero Dave and today my here or teachers who are losing sleep over the safety of their students that they may not see again. The school year safety students is key to. It's it's one thing. They're losing sleep over. Educating the students who all have IPADS and ready to go and are doing this brave new world but there are students and kids that are just fading into the distance that it's very hard to to know how to as a teacher out of love them. Yeah definitely not a very. That's yeah I mean it's one thing that's it you said it's one thing to educate it's another thing to worry about their wellbeing and be able to help but they they aren't totally unable to help. There's social workers are still being heroic and doing their jobs. There are as you drive by. Their teachers are dry vice constantly. I'm seeing videos of that with my friends. Kids and so And we get to partner this week with. Ibm to bring an extra hero. And you eddy. I know you know this but I am is fighting to end slavery around the world and as you've heard we've been telling beautiful stories of rescue and restoration this week and last week and today's hero is a kid named Love Luke Luke as a condition. That's left him immuno-compromised in twenty seventeen. He got to do a make a wish trip to Lego Landon Disneyworld which is pretty awesome. And his GRANDPA gave him twenty dollars to spend on a souvenir but he decided not do. They wanted to spend it on something. Bigger is what he said and later that year. When Lucas family were at church he learned that there are people in slavery and when it came from from Church. He told his mom. I WANNA give my money to those slavery people because I don't want them to be called Slavery People. I want them to be called by their names which I think is so sweet. Yeah yeah there's just so much complexity F- y'all doing this work and ending violence and slavery but gets it you know like people shouldn't be slaves they should be free call by their names right totally publicity not simplicity but the way a kid is able to boil down. We got to be looking to our kids because they are. They've got a lot of perspective on this on a low on big things. When Luke had a ton of perspective that I love. I love the story of Luke because what a hero I love him. So you can join Luke in the end slavery by giving twenty four dollars or more eats each month as a freedom partner with I J M in the consistent gives make it possible for them to show up for children and families and slavery around the world so it's become freedom partner you go to I m DOT ORG SLASH. Be a hero and enter your information. It's quick and simple. It'll help countless number of people around the world so I J. Dot org slash be a hero man happy. Well we today kind of long show but we had on show. If you'd be real easy to cut the I sixty minutes thirty minutes. Yeah they're gonNA hear about my sour cream doughnut. They're going to hear about your Siri thing. Sure your gentleman call it. Yikes that'll do it. That'll take everybody Gosh your hands. We'll see you back here tomorrow.
They Forecast a Hate Wave in 2008
"You're an intelligence analyst with the government for how many years twenty five years since nineteen Ninety-one do miss it. Some aspects of it. I do miss this is a guy named Darrell Johnson. He used to be an intelligence analyst for the department of homeland security, he focused on domestic terrorism extremist movements. You know, it's a very tight knit Roop of analysts and police officers that cover these topics, and you know, try to keep in touch with them. And we discuss these issues, and we talk about the current climate of the country, and and how domestic terrorism is increasing more very concerned. Yeah. I mean, I just wonder if after last week. You guys have just been in touch nonstop talking about how to deal with us. Most of it is you know, talking about how nothing's being done. After last week's attempted bombings and the synagogue shooting over the weekend. There's been so much talk about how we got here about whether the president's fiery rhetoric encouraged the men behind these attacks somehow gave them confidence in their twisted beliefs. But Darryl Johnson thinks about this moment differently. He says, yeah, what we saw last week as part of a wave of violent far right extremism away that seems to be cresting now. But this wave started building years ago, Darryl can even pinpoint win because back then he was running a team of government analysts focusing on what his agency called non Islamic terrorism. It was two thousand seven we got a call from the capitol police giving us a heads up that a young African American Senator was thinking about announcing his candidacy for the US president. And we were asked to monitor some of the extremist websites for any type of chatter threats towards this person with Barack Obama. What did you see when you did that we saw a lot of threats developing back a couple of plot? That were uncovered by the secret service FBI that were plotting to kill candidate Obama. You know, the white supremacists have been fearful for years of a black president. So it was kind of their worst nightmare. Come true. I don't know you've done this for a long time. And I wonder if you sort of saw this gathering storm cloud of hate, and it made you worried. That's exactly right. In fact, the project was named gathering storm before it was even published. I'm Mary Harris. This is what next today what happened when one man tried to warn the country about the gathering storm of far-right extremism. How it prompted a backlash from people who viewed the report as an attempt at tar the political, right? And how that backlash left the government less able to track this domestic threat stay with us. This episode is brought to you by citric for businesses. Staying ahead of market trends, and technological advancements is paramount and technology is key citric digital workspaces help organizations streamline their technology strategy and create a seamless work experience because worth doesn't mean going to an office anymore going to work could mean sitting at home in your PJ's or writing up a report on the train citric technology means you have the flexibility to be at your desk. Even when you're not, and when I say be at your desk, I mean, opening up a tablet, and your cursor is right where you left it at work citric delivers a unified platform that works with any cloud device or technology. It maximizes your existing investments in infrastructure. While seamlessly integrating new business models products and services. You get real time information insights analytics to inform decisions stay ahead of the competition. No matter what happens in your industry, your organs. Station can quickly pivot to whatever comes next. Learn more at citric dot com slash slate. Citric this is how the feature works. Before Darrell Johnson became an expert in extremist movements and domestic terrorism before he warned homeland security secretary Janet Napolitano about a surge in right wing agitators following the election of President Barack Obama before his report was leaked to the media inspiring a conservative backlash before he was thrown under the bus by his own agency before all that Darrell Johnson was a Mormon teenager riveted by an F B I raid on a far right compound. There is a standoff in Arkansas back in nineteen eighty-five involving some white supremacists. And the police and some fugitives, and I was just attracted to this topic. Because, you know, at the time, I was very religious. And I was just wondering why people would you know, quit their jobs cut off ties to family move out to low part of Arkansas and prepare for Magadan, actually. Conduct attacks to try to hasten that and so that kind of planted a seed and be that grew as I went to college and majored in political science, and I saw the review route standoff, and then the Waco standoff, and I automatically went to work for the government and mislead looking at horn overseas terrorism, but had such a I guess passion and interest in domestic terrorism that I venture really started, you know, going down that career path because there were so few analysts that had knowledge and expertise in that area. So it's two thousand nine we've just had our first black president elected, and you decide to write a report who did this report Goto, the DHS reported two thousand nine was meant from federal state local law enforcement and their decision makers in ended up going way beyond that. Right. Oh, yeah. It was an April two thousand nine. And I was actually had the day off. I was helping the boy scouts deliver mulched refund razor, and I heard the story during a news break on the radio. And I couldn't believe that. They were talking about my report and that it was leaked so quickly within like three days after it was issued. How did it go beyond this initial group that you gave it to? Well, we started finding out that there were military members that received it. And then of course, it got into the conservative media realm hat Robertson, the seven hundred club and Fox News and Rush Limbaugh. And so all of these conservative media personalities started taking things out of context and criticizing the analysis and characterizing it as a hit job against conservatives. And did you immediately know whether this would be good or bad for you. I was a little confused because you know, I'm not used to having my intelligence work being discussed on, you know, public media sites. And so I knew that it was going to generate a lot of questions, but I never envisioned that it was going to generate so much negative backlash from the Republicans and conservatives 'cause I myself, I'm a conservative registered Republican, and I never foresaw. How people would politicize the report and use it to try to embarrass the new administration. What did it mean to you to see people who are also Republican and conservative using your work to argue that somehow the department of homeland security was biased against them frustrating. You know, I was just doing my job on the term right wing extremism is common in the counter-terrorism lexicon, the FBI. You know, used to publish an annual report on terrorism United States, and they constantly referred to both right wing, extremism and left wing extremism. And so for people to object to that term into somehow think that it was an attack against conservatives. It really was I opening to me and shocking. What happens to your career after this report came out with my career was pretty much upended at the department of homeland security, and we faced, you know, scrutiny from the management and retaliation management officials. And so I just thought it would be best to just get out of that toxic environment and start a company and continue on and training law enforcement, try to educate the public on these threats. Yeah. I mean, you've said that usually domestic terror kind of goes dark during Republican administrations. But it seems like we're seeing the opposite right now. That's exactly right during Republican administrations because that fear of a gun ban or gun control that fear of extending rights to minority groups dissipates. And so a lot of these groups kinda lose, you know, their strength and in their message because they have a person in power that kind of placates those things where during democrat administrations, they get where detected because of what the democrat stand for the thing that's different between President Obama's contribution to the rise of these groups and President Trump's contribution to increase of these groups is Bronco. Bama. Did nothing. He was put in the very difficult position. Because you know, being, you know, a person of color as well as a democrat if he were to. You know, crack down on these groups, it could even agitate them further and have even more violence. And so I think he was kinda caught between a rock and a hard place. President Trump doesn't have those barriers. He's a Republican. He's a white male. And so, you know, what he's doing to contribute to this problem is the fact that he's taken some of these extremists narratives and put them into the mainstream, and it's putting them forth as policy I had seen extremists talking about this on white supremacist. Message boards ten years ago. What's interesting to me is what you're saying. Is that President Trump is actually in this really good position to try to control this because he's a white guy, and he's a Republican. And so President Obama was in a position where you know, he. You might have inflamed. People by cracking down, you know, used to work in domestic terrorism. And you've said lone wolf actors like the attempted bomber in Florida like the shooting suspect in Pittsburgh. They're hard to stop. What could we even do to minimize these threats now? Well, there's a lot of things that need to be done. I don't even know where to begin. But it starts with training law enforcement officers in these threats. It's it's you know developing policies at the state and local levels while the federal level to prioritize resources towards this threat to develop confidential informants to put an undercover agents embedded into these movements to commit yourself to identifying the next terrorist, and preventing it there's a lot of things that need to be done. We're not even tracking domestic terrorism at the national level and producing report to our legislators and other decision makers to just let them know where the threat is. And is it increasing or decreasing so there's so much to do. Dell johnson. Thank you so much for talking to me. You're welcome. Darrelle Johnson is the former senior domestic terrorism analyst for the department of homeland security. He now owns DT analytics a private consulting company. There's a story. I noticed at of dodge City Kansas today. It's about a polling station that suddenly moved out of town. The ACLU got worried voters wouldn't be able to get to the polls on election day and they sued yesterday. They lost. I called up slates Mark Jones of stern to tell me the latest about all this. He's been keeping track of what's going on in Kansas. For one reason the person overseeing the election, there is a guy named Chris co Bach. He sexually of state. He's also running for governor. Mark calls him the king of voter suppression. But I started off by asking Mark to tell me a little bit more about what's happening in dodge. So what we're seeing in dodge city is a sort of classic type of voter suppression that we've seen all around the country, especially since the supreme court guided the Voting Rights Act in twenty thirteen and gave jurisdictions a lot more power to target minority voter. So the new strategy which has. Has been perfected by people like Kansas secretary of state Chris co Bach who is currently running for governor ease to move or close a bunch of polling places in minority. Heavy districts in the case of dodge city, this is a majority Latino city, the officials there have moved the polling place to about a mile outside the city where there's virtually no bus service where people without cars people without a lot of time to take off from work will struggle to get to right. It's going to be hard to get there. And so this is just the new trend, and unless we have a judiciary that's willing to vigorously. Protect voting rights. You're not gonna be able to do much to fight this kind of flagrant voter suppression. Because unfortunately, judges just aren't stepping up the way they used to and Chris Kovac the guy who administers these elections. He seems to be like. Failing up like he secretary of state. He's running for governor. But folks didn't even think he'd win the Republican primary. Right. No. He was supposed to lose the primary to call. Your who is the current governor of Kansas Republican governor very popular, but Trump stepped in at the last minute and gave Kobuk has endorsement, of course, Kobuk oversaw the ill-fated of voter fraud commission that Donald Trump set up after the election to try to prove that he actually won the popular vote. And so I think in a lot of voters minds co Bach and Trump were linked. That's probably what pushed co Bach over. If not also the maladministration of the election, which led to the nullification of a fair number of ballots that were probably going to be cast for call. It was a very close race. But seeking to avoid a kind of Republican internal warfare Collier stepped out and said, I'm not going to contest this which allowed Kobuk to get where he is today. He said something earlier I wanna. Go back to which is you said that courts have a lot of power here. And we're really seeing the judiciary way in in these voter fraud cases, I'm wondering what that means for the rest of us for folks who aren't living in Kansas or Georgia. Does that mean that what's happening in this small town may be signs of what's to come in other places? I definitely think so I I mean New York is actually a hotbed of voter suppression. Or was until very recently. There were totally illegal purges of mostly minority voters in Brooklyn twenty sixteen. There were lawsuits filed against the city that the city had to settle several election officials were fired or resigned in disgrace. So it's wrong to think about this. As just a red state issue. This is a problem around the country, not just in Kansas and Georgia, and like I said the fundamental problem with voter suppression is that voters themselves can't necessarily fight back. Right. It seems very obvious. But they lose their power to vote. And so they can't just vote the bad guys out. That's why voting is a fundamental right under the constitution. That's why courts are supposed to protect it. But again, even under Justice, Anthony Kennedy on the supreme court. The judiciary wasn't doing very much to protect voting rights. It's about to get a whole lot worse under Justice Cavanaugh because one of Robert's main beliefs, the chief Justice John Roberts is that the courts just shouldn't be involved with this kind of stuff with election matters. And so we're going to see more co box across the country. We're gonna see more maladministration, and we're gonna see more sort of outright racist voter suppression. Will you say this is getting worse? I kind of wonder if it's getting worse or if we're just noticing it more. Ooh, that's a perennial question and a tough line. I think that it is getting worse because Republicans are getting smarter about how to suppress the vote, right? So closing polls, and minority counties is nothing new, but Republicans have learned that there's this thing called the per cell principal, and this is a supreme court rule that says that courts can't weigh in or change election rules right before the election. And so what happened in Kansas is a great example of how this really harms voters, the ACLU only found out about this right before the election because the election administrators only really acknowledged it shortly before the election at that point the clock had already run down. Another example is in North Dakota. Right. North Dakota Republicans didn't just pass a standard voter ID law. They passed a law that required every ID to include a residential street address, which expressly tie. Targeted native American voters who often live on very rural tribal reservations and simply don't have an official residential address. They used to use their PO boxes there. Formal address. Now, they can't do that. And the courts have permitted dot as well. I'm so I think Republicans are sort of learning from experience they're figuring out what works, and what doesn't they have lots of operatives and lobbyists who are happy to ghost write this legislation. And so I think this is just an instance of Republicans getting better at it. As they go on March is the stern. Thank you so much for explaining it. Thanks so much for having me on. One more thing. I want to mention before I leave. You are Wednesday show is about the war in Yemen, and the looming threat of famine there, we spoke to Eric nagourney of the New York Times about the papers decision to publish photographs of a young girl named a mall Hussein choose malnourished barely they're looking away from the camera. He wrote to us yesterday to tell us a mall Hussein died on Thursday. She was seven years old. You can read a remembrance of her over at the New York Times. That's our show for today. What next is a way for slate magazine to flirt with the idea of a daily news show, but this courtship. It's only gonna last a couple more weeks. Then we're going to go on a little break before launching full force in January. So let us know what you want us to keep doing when we come back. You can leave us a review on apple podcasts or you can just Email us where at what next at slate dot com. What next is hosted by me, Mary Harris and produced by Mary Wilson and Jason Delio on our engineers. Terrence bernardo. Thank you this week to Alison Benedict. Slates executive editor talk to you Monday.
NPR News: 07-12-2019 1PM ET
"Support for this podcast and the following message come from the N._p._R.. Wine Club unique bottles inspired by your favourite N._p._R.. Shows the up first Pino gratiot and the wait wait. Don't tell me Merlot are the latest releases available to adults twenty one years and older at N._p._R.. Wine Club dot org live from N._p._R.. News in Washington. I'm Lakshmi Singh Labor Secretary. Alex Acosta is resigning. N._p._R.'s Brian Naylor says a cost up is a former federal prosecutor who's come under fire for his handling of a previous sex trafficking case against Financier Jeffrey Epstein President Trump announced to cost his resignation saying cost called him this morning and that it was a cost as decision to step down a cost was U._S. Attorney. The in Florida and did not pursue federal charges against Epstein who is accused of sexually abusing underage girls Epstein pleaded guilty to a single state charge and was given a lenient sentence he was arrested last week by federal prosecutors in New New York on similar charges across to held a news conference earlier this week where he defended his conduct as a prosecutor but today he told President Trump he had become a distraction to the administration and decided to resign Brian Naylor N._p._R.. News Washington Grammy Award Winning Singer R Kelly now faces federal charges including sex related crimes involving women and girls in Illinois and New York. He was arrested last night in Chicago in Illinois prosecutors alleged Kelly and others bribed or threatened. And physical violence to keep victims and witnesses from disclosing sexually explicit videos of Kelly with minors and prosecutors in New York accused Kelly and others in his entourage of recruiting women and girls to engage in illegal sexual activity they say Kelly's rules included needed depriving his victims of food and use of the bathroom. R Kelly has denied the allegations will during a news conference in Atlanta R Kelly's publicist Darrell Johnson was confronted by angry parents demanding to speak with their daughter Joycelyn savage live with Kelly and Chicago. I got a quick burst boy. Where's your source? I don't WanNa come to let me talk first of all. I know nothing nothing you gotTA. Be Quiet. Let me talk first of all your daughter. I have nothing to do with your daughter. Kelly's publicist says he see nothing to indicate. The joycelyn savage was ever harmed against the backdrop of tariff battle between the U._S. and China. This country's trade deficit sit with China has expanded. Here's N._p._R.'s Scott horsely customs data from the Chinese Government Show U._S.. Exports to that country fell by nearly a third last month while China's exports to the United States dip just eight percent cargo traffic declined in both both directions across the Pacific but the trade gap grew to nearly thirty billion dollars three percent bigger than in June of last year president trump met with his Chinese counterpart just two weeks ago and the leaders agreed to restart stalled trade talks since then. And trump complaints China is not following through on its promise to increase purchases of U._S.. Farm goods trump insist his tariffs on Chinese exports will shift manufacturing back to the United States though there's little evidence of that so far Scott Horsely N._p._R.. News Washington this is N._p._R.. The White House says President Trump will host his Guatemalan counterpart on Monday to talk about the migration of Central Americans across the southern U._S.. Border and Security Rape Reuters news service reports. Both countries may sign an agreement declaring Guatemala a safe haven for asylum seekers should such a deal exists Guatemala could be required to process asylum claims from migrants who enter the country on. Their way to the United States meanwhile U._S.. Authorities are expected to begin arresting unauthorized migrant families starting this Sunday raids are expected to take place in nearly a dozen cities across the country researchers at seven U._S.. West medical centers are among a larger effort gearing up to test a new vaccine to prevent AIDS. N._P._R.'s Richard Harris reports on the latest attempt to find a way to stop H._I._V.. From spreading version of this experimental vaccine is already being tested in Africa <hes> that research effort is set to expand later this year two clinics in the United States Europe and South America overall thirty eight hundred men who are at risk for contracting H._I._V.. We'll be asked to volunteer for the new study despite more than thirty years of research there is no effective AIDS vaccine in but researchers keep trying this one is designed to protect against many different strains of H._i._v.. Janssen pharmaceuticals part of Johnson and Johnson posted its plans for the vaccine test on government website clinical trials dot Gov in May a Bloomberg study on the.
Laundromats, Gas Stations and Tooth Fairies Across U.S. Struck by Pandemic-Induced Coin Shortage
"LAUNDROMATS gas stations and tooth fairies across US struck by pandemic induced coin shortage by Sarah skidmore cell of the associated. Press. A convenience store chain is offering a free beverage or sandwich in exchange for them. A laundromat owner drove four hours across state lines to get eight thousand dollars worth a young girl in Illinois wrote the tooth fairy saying, she'll gladly take dollars as a substitute. It helps there is a shortage of coins across the US. Yet another odd side effect of the corona virus pandemic quarters, dimes, and nickels aren't circulating as freely as they usually do because many businesses have been closed and consumers aren't out spending as much. The. Federal Reserve announced in June that the supply system for coins had been severely disrupted. The US mint and Treasury Secretary Steven. MNUCHIN have urged Americans to use coins or turn them into banks as the economy recovers and businesses reopen. The coin supply is expected to normalize meanwhile retailers large and small averge choppers to use cards or exact change whenever possible some won't provide change grocery giant Kroger company is still accepting cash but offers customers the option to load their change onto loyalty cards to use on their next. Or to donate the balance to charity convenience store chain wall offered customers a free beverage at some of its stores if people brought in five dollars, worth of coins or a sandwich for fifty dollars or more. Community State Bank a regional bank chained in Wisconsin even offered a five dollar bonus for every one hundred dollars worth of coins that people brought in they had to suspended after a week due to an overwhelming response. As the shortage persists it's become clear that there are still some conundrums that only coins can solve its at the minimum and inconvenience at worst it's a business challenge said, Brian Wallace CEO of the Coin Laundry Association, a Trade Group for laundromats about fifty six percent of laundromats that serve the public take quarters as the only form of payment an eighty nine percent take quarters as some form of payment with cards, loyalty programs, or mobile payments as an alternative according to the Trade Group laundromats rely heavily on coins in part because many of their customers are UN banked or under banked meaning they mostly or entirely use cash instead of cards to pay for things. Darrell Johnson who owns giant wash laundry a chain of eleven laundromats in the Minneapolis area said his company normally buys anywhere from four thousand dollars to eight thousand dollars in quarters a week for its change machines. But after the Fed began rationing distributions, of course. His Bank said it might not be able to provide any. Obviously we were freaking out a little bit. He said. Johnson got creative. He offered to buy change from friends and family on facebook. He put up signs in stores, asking customers to bring in their own coins and adjusted his change machines to only accept smaller bills to limit outflow heave and drove more than four hours to Omaha to by eight thousand dollars of quarters from another laundry operator. It's that or my businesses close he said. Things have stabilized some both for himself and his bank in terms of supply people who rely on coin operated laundry machines in laundromats and apartment buildings are struggling as well Stephanie. Sabin, of Portland, Oregon has a washing machine at her apartment complex that only takes quarters. In July her neighborhood bank was closed for in person business. The next five locations she tried were either closed or unable to give her quarters. She's been able to get her laundry done with quarters. Her family had on hand door that she bought from her boss desperate times. She said you can no longer request rolls of quarters at Grocery stores or even get change back if you pay with cash in a food drive through. Toll booths, parking meters, vending machines, and other spots that were once coin heavy have largely modernized to accept other forms of payment but people are finding themselves in need of change for other situations. Leeann. Tug Nettie of Rio Grande City Texas had just started her five year old daughter on an allowance in July two quarters for every day she picks up her room. It's a lot of quarters to go through in a week. She said I had no idea or even crossed my mind that there could be a coin shortage. To keep good on her promise, she has used change from the vending machine at work and coins mailed to her by a friend. She has also used a stack of dimes or doubles up two days payments with a dollar bill instead. If she would pick up every single day. We would have a problem she said. For the North Carolina Aquarium at Pine Knoll shores a shut down in March turned into an unexpected opportunity to help offset, lost revenue and ended up helping address the coin shortage to. The aquarium shutdown. It's waterfall and cleared out about one hundred gallons of coins that visitors had thrown in over the past fourteen years. The coins which are still being washed and counted will go towards operating costs. We are definitely feeling the pinch said Daniel Bolton, a spokeswoman for the aquarium every penny counts literally. The shortage is even being felt by the young take Jen Vicar of Bolingbrook Illinois, her ten year old daughter woke up with a loose tooth recently and worried the tooth fairy wouldn't be able to pay because of the shortage. So she wrote a note dear, tooth fairy you may already know this, but there is a national coin shortage in America you usually leave me dollar coins but until this situation is resolved, I would like cash for my teeth I apologize for the inconvenience.
Outrage and anger in the wake of another racist massacre
"Tonight on all in that's an invasion. I was badly criticized for using the word invasion. It's an invasion outrage and anger in the wake of another racist massacre. Is there anything in your mind that the president can do now to make this any better. What do you think tonight pay to aurora worked. Joins me live to explain why he's laying blame at the president's feet. He's not tolerating racism. He's promoting racism bus houlihan castro on why he says donald trump trump is unfit to lead our nation then the renewed call to do something about guns in the wake of a mass killings in texas and ohio and just what it means to us the terrorism label on white nationalist violence america is under attack by lethal violent white nationalist terrorism and all in starts right now good evening from new york. I'm chris as even if there were no blood it would still be vile if there were no body count no deaths to mourn no grieving families know young parents corrupt apart by bullets while shielding their babies. Even if none of that had happened it would still be an existential threat to the america we can and should should be this is an invasion when you see these caravans starting out with twenty thousand people. That's an invasion. I was badly adler criticized for using the word invasion. It's an invasion and it's also an invasion of drugs coming in from mexico okay. It's an invasion of drunk. Even if there were no maga bomber radicalized at trump rallies and sentenced today to twenty years for sending bombs the president's foes the rallies would still be ghastly chilling enterprises were crowds are incited and encouraged given to the worst impulses where they ecstatically desecrate our national character yelling l. ing shoot them while cheered on by the head of state and when you have fifteen thousand people marching up and you have hundreds and hundreds of people and you have two or three border border security people that are brave and great and don't forget. We don't let them and we can't let them use weapons. We can't other countries do we can't i would never ever do that. But how do you stop these people. You can't this. That's only the panhandle you'd get away with that state only independent even if not one drop of blood river shed in pursuit of it would still be anathema it would still be a force to be routed and concord and banished antisemitic screen and what is the it. I'm speaking of well a quarter phrase you know it i know the well of evil from which our president draws and has drawn from the first day when he said mexico was sending rapists the u._s. Presumably with the explicit intent to defile america's women the dark sorcery of racial hatred that conjures invasions and infestations out of desperate fellow human being seeking refuge and exulted hatred a hatred wrapped in a joking not joking smile and a cowardly irony in a pause at the podium what the crowd hurwitz well. It's bil- hatred echoed in the refrain of death squads were criminals and fascist mobs throughout history as they will the club and the pistol and the machete your invaders. You are animals. You are a disease you are a threat to us and you will not replace us talk to you in that group but you also had people that were very fine people on both sides which is why of course if there is is a body count that there is blood on the ground but there's a list of names waiting now to be carved headstones political violence represents a distinctly destablizing threat to the fabric wake of a peaceful democratic society and it can and has come and we should be clear about this in many forms and from many ideologies they've been leftist belts of terror and religious fanatics and nihilistic stickney ex and let's not forget that a man to kill half a dozen republican members of congress motivated appears by his hatred of them their politics congressman scalise barely escape with his life was despicable act rightly and roundly condemned by all but the pattern laid out before us repeated over and over again requires willful full obtuseness to ignore a study conducted by researchers at the university of north texas found counties that are hosted a two thousand sixteen trump campaign rally saw two hundred and twenty six percent increase in reported hate crimes over comparable counties that did not host such a route two hundred and twenty six percent the men who wanted to shoot up a mosque where somali the immigrants worshiped who argued in court. Their actions were influenced by trump's anti muslim rhetoric. The bomber who tried to blow up the president's enemies the synagogue shooter who mused about the immigrant caravan and the jews he claimed behind it the el paso murder who left a manifesto whose main talking points would be more or less unremarkable out of the mouths of the the president's closest advisers or the president himself. Donald trump knows what he's doing. Everyone here's the president loud and clearly when he speaks wchs he tells his followers they alone are the heroes of this country's history that they are threatened by their fellow countrymen and women who live in cities by the desperate mothers and babies and flip flops and he separates great some pens by those who call their god by a different name time and again time and again this nation must answer the question who it is for america erica is four and the simple answer time and again must be it is for all of us. We welcome the stranger we pursue justice we act actors equals in the collective enterprises democracy the president and his party stand on the wrong side of that question right now they have long since disqualify themselves from the support of decent people doing so joining me now twenty twenty democratic presidential candidate mentor work represented el paso in congress for six years a native of that city first of all congressman how are folks in el paso doing and coping right now people in this community. We are so incredibly strong. I was just at university medical center. Visiting with people who have suffered the most grievous wounds you can imagine people who also had family members who were shot family members who unfortunately were killed and the strength the determination that they show show the care that they're receiving from these extraordinary doctors and nurses and frontline staff the love and his community lines around the block in order to be able to donate blood blood to in some way be able to help out our fellow pass wins and in this community of immigrants eighty-five percent mexican american by national community what ends ends is an el paso wins alike coming together in a display of confidence and courage and strength and love in the face of this hatred of never been been more proud of el paso than i am right now. How do you make sense of what happened this weekend there. You just did a wonderful the job of making sense of this for us chris it is that hatred in which the president traffic's the racism that he promotes the violence that he encourages. No one should be surprised. No one should be asking themselves how this could happen in our country. It's very clear in this president's maiden speech as a candidate for the highest office in the land he chose to talk about communities like mind to describe mexican immigrants as rapists and criminals. He did not only welcome the violence against them. He literally sent u._s. Servicemembers thousands of them to the border for what reason to meet kids who had just fled two thousand miles miles for their lives who show up here penniless defenseless as vulnerable as a human being can be he wants you. He wants people. He wanted that killer to be afraid and then to act on that fear and you know what he did. Twenty two people dead now in this community community that has been forever changed but but will not be defined by this because though we have borne the brunt of this racism and this hatred and attack this community also holds the answer answer. We are one of the safest cities in america because we are a city of immigrants and asylum seekers and people from the planet over who have found a home here here in el paso and by their very presence have made a stronger and more successful and more secure than we could have ever been otherwise this. This is the example that the country needs right right now. I don't think the politics here matter that much. I mean what who's got the bigger path of the country but i guess i wonder like so. Are you confident. Do you have bedrock unshakable faith that your vision is the vision of the majority of this country that the rejection of the way the president talks. It is what most americans want here. We very consciously started out two hundred gordon forty-three years ago on the premise that we were all created equal. We consciously chose not to define ourselves by difference or by race or ethnicity or or common ancestry. We've never quite lived up to it but until now until this administration. We never really stopped trying to live up to that. I believe the people of this country. I certainly believe in the people of el paso texas and they are showing us the way right now yes. I'm optimistic and and i'm hopeful whether or not you can believe it in the face of this massacre and this tragedy we are so much bigger and stronger and more confidence than this we see in our differences nothing to be afraid of in fact we don't tolerate we don't respect we fully embrace these differences as foundational to our safety to security to our pride as americans. We're going to get back on track. We're going to reject this president and his racism everyone who traffics in it everyone everyone who is aided him those members of congress who have yet to speak out against this president and draw the connections between his language his rhetoric and the violence that we're using you mentioned in the opening hate crimes on the rise every single year for the last three years. The mosque in victoria texas burned to the ground on the same day that donald trump signed a ban purporting to ban all muslim travel to the united states of america. We know what's happening right now. The people of this country do it's time for their elected leaders to say as much for members of the press to be very clear to stop equivocating. Don't ask if the presence racist you know. The president is racist. Don't ask if he had a role in what happened in el paso he absolutely did now. It's time for us to act. Do you think there's a world world in which there are people who are still supporting the president or persuadable on this who are amenable to the kind of vision that you're sketching about what an inclusive sort of americanised looks like i do and at this moment of such great division when when we are so polarized when when we are being driven further apart every day by this president through this anger and through this fear that he wants us to feel i really believe in our ability to come together to to save from the outset outset. Do not care who you voted for last time for president what party you belong to how many generations you can count yourself in american whether like seven of the victims comes from this shooting you live in su- what is that you're here that you're part of this community that you're a human being. That's what matters first and foremost and we're going to treat you you that way as a travel texas as a travel this country. That's what i see. That's what i hear. That's what i feel. That's what we were going to live as a country going forward. I'm confident confident of it. All right. They told work from congressman. Paso running for president wanted to say that you've been hearing this from everyone but the entire nation <hes> standing with <hes> with the folks down there in ohio as well. Thanks a lot we're grateful much more on this weekend's to mass shootings including the rallying cry to do something about guns what it means to label white nationalist murderers as terrorism and more on what this moment means to the future of our country after this even before the mass murderers is weakened even before this white supremacists committed what is being treated as an act of domestic terrorism has been clear from the first moment that donald trump came down that desk leader for years ago particularly clear in the last few weeks donald trump stood idly biza crowded rally chanted senator back the president's cultivation racist ideology and his racist definition of what the u._s. is four pose. An existential threat to the country's nature should be that's it. It is an existential threat that we face down many times before and at battles over and continue to battle over but this is as much a hinge in history of what the country we're going to be as we have ever had here with me now erica annual chief advocacy officer immigration legal services group races and adam serwer staffer the atlantic who wrote about this very idea today erica what what is the significance reverberation of this moment after what we've seen the president say and do against immigrant communities yeah i mean it was absolutely devastating for a community sushi that not only the narrative of donald trump creating policies against our communities eighties. It is also actually driving actions now from people who really listened to him to really believe what he's saying about immigrants and obviously this person going to the border and doing what he did was specifically targeted towards immigrants. He was very clear about it and so to me. It is definitely right now. How very very urgent that we're changing policies but also that we're start changing narrative and the president needs to understand that what he's saying is going to continue to to change lives then at the end. They also n. Life as what happened just recently announced bustle atom i didn't i didn't play any of the presidency share even mentioned it because it just just seemed to me completely immaterial we know what he is and what he actually believes and you've written about this before that the essence of what the what he has been selling cannot cannot be detached from this particularly racial is vision of who really america's for who belongs here who's being invaded in who the invaders are look. I'm sure the president doesn't actively want people to die but both key and his advisors spent the last month telling everyone who would listen and how brilliant the president's strategy of fomenting racial division was and they can't control how seriously people take that and when you're telling everyone you ah when you're telling your audience is these huge audiences of people both who watch fox news and who listened to the president that the country is in danger existential existential danger because of the threat posed by people who don't look or worship like them then you can't control how people are going to react to it especially when you're up there saying wouldn't it be great if we could just shoot down and i want to stress erica and i'd like to hear your response to this <hes> eh piggy backing up with adam said and what i said earlier even if there wasn't oh violence it still vile like he's calling people in invasion calling infestation like that language is dehumanizing unacceptable able on its own detached from whatever deranged people do with it or violent people do with it like that to me seems fundamental to the understanding of at this moment in terms of when you talk about what has to change absolutely and this is a psychologically damaging to our community until you that as undocumented person. I've been afraid most of my life that meaning the u._s. You know my family has been really afraid for a really long time. Even before donald trump was an office but right now i literally have feared for my life life. I've known community members who have feared for their lives because of what has been said in those rallies because of exactly the conversations that have happened in the <unk> fortune in h._s._e._n. Gone screen shots of people who are on an on an talking as you know anonymous about what they're going to do to me or they're going to do due to activists and dreamers is to me right now. Really we are scared for early lives more than we are even scared you know for our families to be deported in is just beyond beyond beyond devastating absolutely just can't i don't even have the words to describe what i feel right now. There's also of course adam. The the president may be a senior figure in his rhetoric but the party that supports him. We see them object sometimes when he does things they don't like they just killed someone who kill the nomination of someone who's gonna be the head of the deny a managed sort of strike that down <hes> they don't do that about this more or less <hes> this core way hey that he interacts with and speaks to the base of his party. Look there was something really encouraging. We saw the past couple of days. Which was we saw a a lot of conservative figures and conservative media outlets condemning white nationalism and completely unqualified terms and that's good but the problem is that the senate haven't changed as long as the republican party seize the path to power through scaring the crap out of white people and fomenting this kind of racial division. This problem cannot be solved. It's also the case eric that that the underlying ideology here that drove this person <hes> by his own accord our to commit this atrocity was almost the almost banal and how common it is in certain conservative republican circles about demographic change change in about how it's going to be bad for the folks who were here because there will be new people here. Yeah we need to change the narrative in both parties to be honest with you. I think it is it. It is very clear that what happened in el paso is to me is just can't believe that the safest city one of the safest cities in the country is <unk> out the border and was literally terrorized by a u._s. citizen with a u._s. Bought weapon in to me is at this point. We need to start rethinking what we're talking about. Border security rethinking and re framing how we're talking about the marine committee in both parties and of course republicans have had a worse but i would invite he also the democrats especially those who are running right now for for office and for the presidential campaigns to start thinking about how they can best reframe and change the narrative of butter communities all right erica and deal and adam serwer. Thank you both thanks for having presidential candidate in texas native julio castro join me talk about the toxic white supremacy says is brewing throughout the country. We are not in the habit here of quoting the words of a mass murderer hoping to get attention for his vile 'cause through that murder but it is almost impossible look at his documents so called manifesto nazi views that are essentially at the core of the current trump's this moment a belief about where each party stands on the question immigration. Here's the shooting suspects read on things quote so the democrats are nearly unanimous with their support of marin while the republicans are divided over it at least the republicans. The process of mass immigration and citizenship can be greatly reduced joining me now is fully on castro twenty twenty presidential candidate former mayor of san antonio texas it says what do you see as the stakes and the battle lines the fundamental one here in this moment in the wake of what's happened in the wake of the president's rhetoric about immigration immigration in this country. What is the simple clear choice to your mind that americans have to make a fork in the road. We're going to go down the path of either improving as a country and being a country that welcomes immigrants and people people that folks he has different from themselves that continuous improvement that this country has been part of since its founding or we're gonna go backward to a country that is fractured where somebody who's not like you is seen as the other especially recent immigrants. That's the choice that we need to make aac in the united states and as long as donald trump is president. This is not going to stop so with regard to immigrants or really whether we're talking him about immigration lines faith lines race ethnicity. It is his political strategy to divide us as americans but the good news is as we get to choose whether or not we're going to go down this path and i think i think you asked this question earlier chris that i they have confidence that the hatred in the heart of that shooter by no means reflects the vast vast majority of the people <unk> out there about a year ago on father's day. I went down to mcallen texas to join activists who were protesting the family separation policy at the earth <unk> processing center where they actually separate families and the families are the activists that were there were of every background and different walks of life in different parts in the country. We actually have values of compassion. Understanding respect for one another that i believe are much stronger no matter what the color of one's skin is or their background background than the division that this president is trying to fan the flames. I'd like you to respond to a critique. I've heard of you specifically in the democratic party recently in the wake of debates because it relates to this idea where where is the majority of americans. We're we're we're kind of democratic majority martialed for something that doesn't look as ugly as this <music> and people have criticized you and for democrats arguing over decriminalizing <hes> unauthorized entry which is currently a misdemeanor federal misdemeanor and you propose to to be a civil infraction other questions about immigration policy and they say that you're bringing the party outside of the mainstream away from that majority going to do damage to it and i'm curious what your response <hes> that i disagree completely that <hes> the fact is what i've proposed basically treating these things as a civil matter is the way that that was done from one thousand nine twenty nine until about two thousand four this is the way that it was don don under reagan under george h w bush under bill clinton so this is not anything that we haven't done before we can still have consequences for people who across over the border it would still be illegal to cross over the border. They're just not would not be this misdemeanor attached to it. That misdemeanor is what this this president trump has weaponized to incarcerate migrant parents and separate them from their little children and i've said that i'm going to guarantee that that it does not happen again. In the future administration the president today <hes> seemed to indicate and i don't think anyone should take the super seriously. It seemed quite tossed off that there there will be some deal. Maybe we'll do immigration reform and something on guns merola up together and i guess there's a fundamental question. Is it possible to do an immigration ration- deal with this president with stephen miller working in the white house. Is that even a possibility to be considered look. I think that anybody who wants to actually make progress on an issue. You always have to keep an open mind even sometimes if that seems like we've we've that seems impossible or ridiculous or it'll never happen. Look it. We're really working for the benefit of people out there. Show me what you're proposing now. Do i believe that that's going to happen given the bigotry of this president and the people that worked for him like stephen miller no but you know have have stranger things happened in history sure what we need to do. Though in the meantime is as as people here in the united states and we need to continue to push politicians to try and work together to fix our broken immigration system whether they're democrat or republican and to do it with solutions that make sense for this country country and for the people who are fleeing desperate circumstances who are seeking a better life generations did before them. I believe that ultimately in two thousand twenty one when we have a new administration and we have a democratic congress and democratic senator that we can get immigration reform done. I only on costra twenty twenty any presidential candidate. I really appreciate you taking a little time out tonight. Thanks kara dylan had the renewed calls to do something about guns following the deadly suiting in texas and ohio next yeah. This is seen individual in dayton ohio yesterday in the aftermath of the mass murder on the streets of that city republican governor mike dewine who has was endorsed by entering last year getting shouted down by crowds of people want him to do something could gun violence in the wake of the shooting that ritualized mass slaughter by guns. It's so common now in american society from police to politicians just everyday citizens they all have. We all have expectations about what happens during them. I am and what happens in the aftermath. The n._r._a. Has a game plan to lay low and try to wait out the nation's anguish blame mental health were video games or anything other than guns guns and then pressure lawmakers behind the scenes and in front of them sometimes to oppose gun safety measures that strategy is largely worked. Something is different though this time and and it's this sierra while still incredibly formidable is at its weakest point organizationally in decades as he battled between warring factions combined with a corruption scandal have plunged the a group into open turmoil joining me now robin thomas executive director of the giffords law center to prevent gun violence and i i guess let me start by asking that question. Do you think the situation the n._r._a. This scene factional dispute different entities accusing others of stealing and corruption and this sort of institutional implosion in happening does that matter in the political strength that the movement to a for sure max gun maximalism at this moment. I actually think it is important. Because what you're seeing is the integrity of the organization. They've really rested on this concept that they have sturdiness they represent the will of gun owners and those of us who are involved in this tissue that that's simply not true not only do they not represent the will of gun owners. They definitely don't even represent the will of n._r._a. Members who they represent are gun manufacturers and the gun industry and the lobbyists the leadership way not pierre and his cronies not only are fighting for something that is on behalf of selling more guns based on fear but apparently apparently and we've suspected this for a long time. They're also enriching their own pockets along the way they're under investigation by the new york state attorney general. There's an f. b. C. complaint against them oliver. North scandal was a big issue. The doesn't surprise me. These are not people who have integrity and so it doesn't surprise me that this is what they're doing behind the scenes in the case of the shooter in dayton <hes> one of the things that's so striking there and we don't really know what the motives are if we will ever learn them in the case las vegas kind of ever did just match burger in this case the unbelievably fallacy in such a short period of time. I mean the latest reports indicating. The police may have neutralized him. <hes> shot him stopped him within thirty seconds of the first shot to thirty seconds in a minute. You have nine deaths. I believe more than a dozen <music> injured. I think there's some instinct that this shouldn't be possible. The types of lethal weapons available to civilians in in the united states is truly astounding and when you talk to folks in the military or law enforcement they're pretty clear that these are not the kinds of guns but certainly should be this easily available all two civilians without proper training without any background check. That individual had a hundred round magazine drum. It's the same kind of drum to what was used in the aurora. Were theater shooting. It's incredible that a civilian not a time of where these guns these really meath assaults assault weapons and these kinds of magazines shouldn't shouldn't be in the civilian market and really you're even hearing that from from folks across the country that we need to do better to regulate salt weapons and to regulate magazines. Is there a police gun gun safety groups that yourself sort of fighting so hard for these small incremental changes for so long. It's still hard to kind of break the damn of n._r._a. Resistance do you think there are folks inside your movement who are saying let's think big like cory booker for instance proposing a national essentially licensing system right like car license since for all guns which is utterly anathema the n._r._a. What do you think of that idea. Where do you think about the sort of scope of the ambitions of moving part of our right now. We should absolutely he be thinking and talking big. We should be talking about comprehensive reform because that's what it's gonna take to actually address this issue. That's what has been done in other countries and that we've seen having tremendous difference even in states like california where we have thought big on we've passed comprehensive reform and we've driven down gun violence year over year over year to one of the the lowest in the country so we should definitely be thinking big yet. We have to start with something and that something should be the universal background check law that was passed by congress earlier this zere that'd be a great starting point and then we need to keep going. I love that these new democratic candidates are talking about comprehensive reform because that is what is actually needed that was passed by the house. It's sitting for the senate to take up mitch mcconnell. Thus far won't take it up. Chuck schumer and others have called for him to call a special session and comeback pass. That probably towns. Thank you very much. Thank you coming coming up what it means the d._o._j. To treat passer shooting as an act of domestic terrorism the justice department is investigating the mass shooting in el paso texas is a case of domestic terrorism which is rare for these kinds of events for years people have been touting the fact in both the rhetoric and the actual institutional nature of the f._b._i. And the nation's natural security architecture that there is a category terrorism that is inherently it seems seems linked to muslim extremist jihadi views that other forms of extremist political violence have done by white people in pursuit of white supremacy does not get that label and the institutional infrastructure behind it while this is happening. We are seeing all sorts of metrics jesting that there has been a spike in right wing violence according to the anti-defamation league which keeps track of this kind of thing extremists related murders spiked thirty five percent between twenty seven two thousand eighteen and last year. Every one of those murders was carried out by a right wing extremist back back in two thousand nine and domestic terrorism analyst department of homeland security warned about this in an eternal report. He faced enormous backlash from conservative media and republican lawmakers hours after his report was leaked to the press d h s then caved to political pressure rescinded the report and the unit looking at right wing extremism was disbanded he left the department of homeland security went on to write a new book called hate land long hard look at america's extremist at former domestic terrorism. Analyst darrell johnson joins me now giving your history mr johnson given the fact that you wrote that memo in two thousand nine and went through the backlash. What are you thinking now as you watch what we're seeing unfold over the last you're so we'll thank you chris. It's very disheartening year. After year. We have these attacks and yet our legislators and government officials seem to have their heads buried in the sand about this issue so when i see these things happening it's the new normal now. These attacks have been happening practically every month and what are the trends that were you. What were the trends that we identified in my report. Yes exactly yes so we basically basically back in two thousand seven postulated what if barack obama the first african american to run for president got elected and we knew that this this would be a recruitment and radicalization tool used by hate groups to basically swell the ranks and begin conducting violent attacks so that report in two thousand nine was actually really a predictive analysis that warned of a coming threat and yet what we've seen we've seen under bill clinton for instance activated right wing thing <hes> extremist violence famously timothy mcveigh and then several militia groups but what we've seen as in some ways a little bit of the inverse of what you predict it right that <hes> these groups would rise up as in a sort of oppositional stance but it seems that the sort of explosion of the number to believe in this kind of violence and organization. It's actually happening under donald trump. What's your theory for that. Yes so typically under democratic administrations is where we see the rise of hate groups and anti-government groups because because they fear pending gun legislation or expansion of minority rights so typically during the republican administrations we have a dial back of right wing extremists premiss activity because they don't have to fear these things <hes> so what's the difference is the fact that we had a very hostile two thousand sixteen election campaign campeign and we've had extremist ideas that have been mainstreamed by the current administration <hes> there was a demonization of any opposition russian and dehumanisation of people that are viewed as opponents to the administration and so these types of things kind of kept this momentum going and has given given these groups kind of a green light to continue operate and can conduct act of violence. I wanna ask about the controversy over that. I report and try to make the sort of best good-faith the argument for some of the backlash which is the first amendment is it protects people's political views. It's not a crime or illegal to have to hold us even if they're utterly odious <hes> for instance <hes> neo nazis and white supremacists. That's all protected by the first amendment and that crimes are committed through actions. There's something dangerous this about government surveillance of people for their political views. What's your what's your response to sort of the best faith version of that argument you gotta remember these violent ideologies geology even though they're protected by the first amendment they bred long histories of violence so just the fact that you embrace is white supremacy. You're already halfway to an act of violence. All your lacking is that trigger a catalyst in your life so we had an equation when i was an analyst that said capability plus ten equals threat and the capability part is the large arsenals weaponry that these people have at their disposal. The intent comes. It's from the ideology gives them the scapegoats to target it gives them the justification that violence is a acceptable form to avenger grievance. Ideology does play a very important role and we need to understand that but at the same time you don't investigate people just because of their ideology all right darrell johnson. Thank you so much for sharing your expertise with us tonight. Much more of the question of domestic terrorism and white nationalism next for years as white supremacist political violence has increased people have called for the u._s. To name these acts as terrorism the same way we use the term for say isis inspired attacks but i think it's worth asking is terrorism. The conceptual legal and institutional framework that we want to expand and utilize hasn't the use of the term often lead abuses is giving this government bisa administration <unk> tools of that kind going to result in the outcomes. The country wants opt for more on this inherent tension joy mehdi hassan columnist the intercept hopes of the deconstructed podcast and m._s._n._b._c. national security analyst frank figliuzzi former assistant director of counterintelligence for the f._b._i. And frank let me start with you because i've seen a few interviews you give it on this. What is the significance and importance sort of tangible concrete way about the designation nation of terrorism to the act committed in el paso and why is that a good idea well. I'm not necessarily advocating that. It's a good idea but i am applauding the fact that we are finally at least labeling something because it's an ideology that leads to violence so terrorism terrorism is all about ideology as motivation and finally we have a recognition that this individual and others like him are motivated by ideology geology not simply by wanting to kill somebody for the sake of killing. Somebody and i think it's a healthy discussion that we need to have as a nation because we're getting to the heart you of free speech and privacy. There's a reason why we don't treat domestic. Terrorism like international terrorism and we need to get this figured out so if you told your local chief of police that there was a house on the corner that was allowing drug sales to happen there. The chief of police would probably put it under surveillance. Maybe send an informant and maybe using undercover technique we don't do that. Their houses on the internet sites chat rooms blogs where people are having discussions that are poised to commit violence and even saying they are going to commit violence yet. Law enforcement isn't present there and we need to figure out how to make that what happened while maintaining our free speech rights. That's a great point and it's sort of cuts to the quick care medi. I mean h chan of course there's been. I think three of these sort of murderous. I manifest is posted there. It is clearly environment in which in certain rooms on that place people radicalizing to other they're urging each other towards really heinous acts and sometimes those hacks are becoming reality. What do you think about the sort of category of terrorism here and the and the civil liberty concerns chris. This is why i love doing your show show because you are such important question really asked this question yeah and it's so important to every one of these attacks because muslims minorities people on the left we look at what's been going on and we say when is someone going to label. These people terrorists because the double standard is so frustrating we look at the media coverage and say why you not covering this stuff we we'll look politician to a passing laws only aimed immigrants or muslims or mexicans. Whatever and there's a great frustration they do something about frank is right to say we need to recognize the ideology behind in these guys having said that of course as you point out. Do we really want to import some of the worst practices from what's happened to us government. I hear people saying on my side of the argument. We should turn we should deal with domestic terrorists. The way we deal with international terrorists and the problem with that argument of course is that the way we dealt with international terrorists was included invading occupying afghanistan invading and occupying iraq opening guantanamo bay bringing the patriot act and mass surveillance and carrying got massive discrimination against muslim communities and violating human rights and free speech that we don't want to replica. I'm assuming i'm betting frank doesn't want to write some of the abuses from from the war on terror in terms of war on far right tara what we want though is some consistency and we want someone to take the white nationalist problem serious right. I think vilo agree with both those points. I mean i to your point about sort of the concerns about state overreach and some of the things that we've done in the war on terror. Frankly the president talks today sort of mentions as an offhand about about being able to involuntarily commit people who are struggling with mental health issues now again. There's some obviously some conditions. I think that probably makes sense ends but it's extremely aggressive power for the state to have it used to be a lower threshold that we have now the threshold we have now which is higher i think generally he's more in line with our values and civil liberties but that's a that's a tough question frank right like that's uneasy live. Our nation is very good at knee-jerk reactions reactions we we can mass resources and swing the pendulum whenever we need to and we did it in nine eleven and most of it was positive positive but there were abuses but we gotta listen to law enforcement to and they say they don't have the investigative tools in their tool kit to address this and that's what they're telling us right now now so congress needs to actually get this done and figure out the supreme court once said you know obscenity when you see it well. We all know violence silence when we see it if somebody says they're going to shoot somebody this weekend. That's a problem. The problem is how does law enforcement see it. How do they position themselves to see if it's happening within a private chat room well and there's an interesting other way of dealing with this method that i that i thought it was always. We're watching this unfold h._s._e._n. You know the cloudflare. Which is the this web service that was providing kind of cybersecurity for them. Stopping them from de de dos attacks and things like that. We're not gonna do this anymore. The head of of came who founded it said not the head of the founder of like shut it down there are private actions and private pressures that can be brought to bear that are not the state where you just say look with this is not the government coming in this is just social society being like a decent person shouldn't be associated with this of course the role of politicians. They're all of the media. The role of financial institutions institutions and banks are involved in stuff. You'll corporation. All of this stuff needs to be looked at but again that requires us to i recognize the problem and that's where franken one hundred percent in agreement at least now we're starting to see a lot of people say it's a shame so many innocent people had to die for people in our country for people in this country to start to open their eyes to this threat is here and this is a new threat. It's been around for a while into darrell johnson before the break who was talking about this threat in two thousand nine the presidency yeah exactly and even even oklahoma city. If you remember right wing went out and said it's muslims before we timothy mcveigh supposed things have been around for a while ignoring the white nationalist threat and exaggerating the muslim threat. Maybe now we can start some kind of re bouncing. Mehdi hassan and frank figliuzzi was great. Thanks a lot that does it for all in you can catch us every weeknight at eight o'clock on m._s._n._b._c. Don't forget to like us on facebook. That's facebook dot com slash all in with chris willie geist here be sure to check out this week's episode of the sunday sit down podcast podcast with oscar winning actress viola davis to talk about her extraordinary career and her journey from poverty to hollywood's a-list yet it now for free wherever you download podcasts.
The 46th: Will A Second Impeachment Change Republican Minds?
"I'm michelle goldberg. i'm roth outfit. And this is the argument. Oh this week. It's trump impeachment the sequel and then how should we think about social media banning the president of the united states the house of representatives has voted to impeach donald trump for the second time charging him with incitement of insurrection with ten republicans joining their democratic colleagues in voting to impeach senate majority leader. Mitch mcconnell says he will not use emergency powers to bring the senate back into session for a trial before january nineteenth meaning that the trial will take place in a biden administration and since it won't remove trump from office. The only purpose of a conviction will be punish the soon to be ex president and perhaps to bar him from running for president again and it's for precisely those purposes according to our own newspapers reporting and others that mcconnell is apparently considering trying to deliver enough republican votes for a conviction so michelle as a long time observer and deepened. Mirer of mitch. Mcconnell's tell me do you believe he's really considering it. I can't imagine it who knows because this has been you know. Twenty twenty one has been a year of possibilities so far right like little more than a week ago it seemed like donald trump was going to leave office as a fairly powerful as opposed to a disgrace. Not i mean. Obviously he was already disgraced but a disgrace national pariah. I didn't expect that. Jon ossoff raphael warnock. We're going to be voting on another impeachment. So you know the world is live with possibility but my guess is that mitch mcconnell wants the threat of a conviction hanging over donald trump for these last days. So he doesn't do further things to put republican difficult position. It seems to me that you know. Democrats have given republicans this sort of disciplinary tool that might make trump or at least people in trump's diminishing circle hesitant to say pardon a bunch of the insurrectionists part in trump. Pardon kids right. He he has except except tiffany. Tiffany yes something to hold him a little bit in line. But i think that in a way democrats had potentially given republicans a gift right. I mean you wanna talk about unity. They were offering republicans the opportunity to after four years of benefiting from donald trump's kind of dacia lawlessness and kind of total partisan warfare. You know after getting all the judges and the tax cuts and the deconstruction of the administrative state as steve bannon said they could do all that and then wash their hands of him at the end of it but to do that they'd sort of all have to hold hands and jump at the same time and i think we saw in the house despite a few defections that they're not going to do that. And so you know who knows so one question is. How do you actually get seventeen republican votes in the senate right now. You know. there's an argument that if mcconnell is for it he will get those votes because he dominates his caucus. He has enough power to get seventeen senators to do it. He gets some senators who are retiring against. Senators are up for reelection for six years and so on. It's still hard for me to count to seventeen ferry easily Ramesh for new rules. National review did a twitter thread a few days ago trying to come up with seventeen votes and he got to ten pretty easily. And then you start getting into figures like you know marco rubio who wants to be president someday gonna vote to convict. Donald trump probably not. It seem very likely that you're right at the same time. The republican party has a big problem. Right and mitch. Mcconnell is nothing if not a calculating steward of the purely political interests of the republican party. And it's not at all clear to me how that kind of calculation plays out with something like this because right now there was a poll yesterday or the day before right that said forty percent of republican primary voters would vote for trump again in two thousand and twenty four. Now it's not an insurmountable advantage and obviously a lot can happen in four years but donald trump's starts out to twenty twenty four primary even after january six and the capitol hill riot as the favourite to be the republican nominee. Again and that reality is bad. This is bad for the country and it's bad for the republican party and you can see the argument that if you prevent trump from running again. Some piece of his power goes away in a way. That's worth the obvious. Risks to a certain set of republican senators who voted for this and not just prevent him from running again but also started stripped him of all his post-presidential perks right. I mean you sort of put an ass on the whole presidency. Kind of brandit. An official failure in aberration in the same way. That the first thing you learn about nixon is that he was this figure who left in shame and then later on. If you study politics you learn. There was about a third of the people who are with him to the bitter end and stayed with them through it. All right so that branding. that's for journalists and that's for you know that's for the history books and all of these things know. I'm sure mitch. Mcconnell despises trump. It would be happy to put that brand on him. But that doesn't affect trump's power in the next four years. I mean it would piss trump off not to have those perks but the thing that would make mcconnell push it through if he could is just all about does this diminish trump's power for the next four years but isn't there also a question of wanting to appease their donors who have shifted pretty rapidly against trump. I mean the reason that kevin mccarthy you know rather than talking about this being a scam and a witch hunt criticized trump in pretty strong terms. You know was very clear. That biden had actually won the election. I would guess that big part of that is about big donors saying bay or not going to contribute to any member of congress that participated in this pernicious fantasy. Yes i'm sure that mccarthy's movement has something to do with that yes. It may be less of a calculus for mcconnell because he has fewer members who participated in it. And i don't think he cares what happens to you. Know josh hawley. Donor base right now since he assumes that if holly falls apart the republicans can missouri. But it yeah. I i agree. That's certainly that's certainly in the calculation as well so let me ask you this. Do you think there are any republicans who were genuinely shocked by the events enough that it's changed their perspective on trump and the trump nominee. I mean i've got to imagine that if you know a bunch of screaming leftists dragged a guillotine in you know in front of capitol hill. We're very close to you. Know kind of dragging out enemies of the revolution that it would. You know change people's calculus pretty quickly. I mean yes. I think i think well i mean you can literally find one. Glaring example right of the of the ten reprise to who voted to impeach trump. The most fascinating one is tom. Rice from south carolina's seventh congressional district. Which is a very trumpy. District and rice was one of the republicans voting to object to the certification of the electoral college. And he just sort of came out with a statement he was like enough is enough is enough right now. There's only one of him and most of the other people voting to impeach. Were you know from swing districts or. I don't think that's true actually. The cheney family is distinctive case. Well i also want say that about liz. Cheney i think it ma- who knows if it matters but i also think that like the fact that donald trump in his speech to the mob specifically told them to get rid of bliss. Cheney yes probably had problems that yeah. I mean i know my but my impression is that there are a substantial number of republicans in the house who didn't vote to impeach but who are on list. Cheney's side fundamentally. And who have had their views shifted and you know the fact just the fact that conviction is a possibility in the senate tells you there's been some kind of shift right. I mean one example. Right would be andy mccarthy right for national review Who is nobody's idea of a sort of you know squishy cocktail party hanging out with the liberals conservatives And he was someone who was for trump and defended trump in various ways throughout the presidency. He has dismissed voter fraud. Staff and critiqued it and then has essentially conceded that those of us who didn't think trump should be reelected who didn't think trump should be supported. We're right right and you know. I think andy is a good a good stand in for a substantial number of elite kinda sorta trump republicans who are now like okay. Yeah this was. This was a gamble that we should not have taken now does that. They what have think they would come to that same conclusion. If donald trump had helped republicans keep the senate. I think the georgia results make it easier for republicans to or sort of thinking about this impure power terms to react to capitol hill in a morally appropriate way. But you know. I also think there's just the of being in the middle of the riot. I think had strong certainly had the from from just from conversations. I've had the stronger sort of moral slash emotional effect than the double in georgia. Well i mean and also just seems. I mean who knows if this is you can never direct cause and effect in these things but there was obviously a sort of symbolic connection at the very least between georgia. Electing the black pastor of martin. Luther king's former church and young jewish filmmaker and then less than twenty four hours later you have insurgents with confederate flags in the us capitol building. I took cases at the very least divine providence. You know putting some little brush strokes on the the canvas of the trying to screenwriter. You could say. The screen the capitalist. Yes i'm curious what you think. I guess i wrote a column this week. Sort of sketching out. What i think is an unlikely but more plausible than it was before situation where the republican party could really break apart after this in the sense that if you have if the portion of the republican party the majority of republican voters who still like trump think the election was in some sense corrupt if they sort of feel in certain ways abandoned by their own elite and go sort of deeper into the kind of cunanan that has already elected a couple people to the house of representatives. I think that puts some really strong pressures on the republican party. That were not there. Before and again i sort of go back and forth trying to figure out like if trump can't run for president again on the one hand you could say maybe that's more dangerous because it's sort of liberates him completely to be as absolutely crazy as possible and you know sort of become the the exiled leader of the populace right and so even precisely because he doesn't can't be president again or can't run for president again. He actually makes divides in the republican party worse. I think the other possibility is that you know what one interesting thing about. The trump era is there actually haven't been that many republican politicians who have sort of succeeded by being super trumpy. You have figures like rhonda santa's in florida and so on who are you know who are somewhat trumpy. But they're still in can but they're still more in like the old chris christie fight with the media kind of lane then in the trump lane and outside a few house seats. Republicans have still been mostly electing pretty normal seeming republicans and in that that reality makes me wonder if it is it just would be really hard for trump to find a bunch of airs which he would need if he couldn't run again but it all comes but then it's like you know. He has airs obviously in his own family like you. Obviously you have a trump era congress than you had before you have to cunanan ladies. Ronnie jackson the kind of white house physician. You know. there's a few more that you could name. But i also donald trump himself has a pretty specific skill set right. You can't just recreate the combination of showbiz know-how and total sociopathic that he rose to power. You know and so. It's not necessarily a trump playbook that you can follow unless you already are a sort of international television celebrity on the one hand is somebody who thinks that the republican party is a force for evens world. I tend to say. I would love to see it crack up or become something akin to the california republican party or what the arizona. Republican party is on its way to becoming which is kind of amazing because you know a few years ago arizona it was a pretty solidly republican. State it's got two democratic senators. It's got a twitter account. That issues calls for martyrdom could imagine the republican party going in a similarly self marginalizing direction. Even though the structures for politics and ensures that it's going to have some amount of power no matter what. But i guess the fear there is that i do think that the storming of the capitol and we'll see if this is true or not. You know when. I've spoken to kind of experts on terrorism and white supremacism and radicalism. Nobody really thinks that the storming of the capital is the culmination. Everybody thinks it's the beginning. Everybody thinks that kind of for the people who did it. It was a victory. It showed that the institutions of american government are soft targets. There's all kinds of other stuff planned rate. You know people who are in dc now compared to the green zone in terms of the the military presence there's going to be a bunch of armed statehouse protests this weekend. There's going to be armed attempts to at least get close to the inauguration so it seems possible to me that we're in for you know something akin to italy's years of lead with you know sort of a real where right wing terrorist attacks or recurring factor and political life as much as i did has an inch mcconnell. I would rather have a republican party that kind of gets its lunatics and check and just kind of goes back to being the party of cruel i in random than the party of cunanan guerrilla warfare. I guess it's a question about how wrong. I've been in analyzing extremism in the united states over the last couple of years. I mean really longer than that. I've tended to focus on sort of the virtual side of it right on the extent. To which sort of the internet creates these endless spaces for fantasy role play that do occasionally Burst into acts of violence but they have tended to be sort of lone wolf type attacks. You know one guy one guy snaps decides he's going to show off for everybody on the on the white white supremacist message. Board or something without becoming like a sort of organized weather underground or kkk pattern violence. And you know a lot of people understandably think that this moment is sort of a tipping point. I have to say that. I think that the the ridiculousness of so much of a spray. Which includes you know the costumes. The the absurdity can be a sort of for the serious threat. It's hard to take seriously. You know someone going around in cow horns an animal. Pelts and complaining doesn't get organic food in prison but the spectacle of all this. I think is not incompatible with the serious threat. There's like this combination of surrealism and at the same time. What's happening underneath. I think we've seen is is dead serious and and this kind of tight. Well i just want to say. I think this ties back to the question of what's gonna happen in the senate because to some degree i think it depends on what we find out in the next couple of weeks. Right like law enforcement has said that people are gonna be shocked by what out which was kind of a shocking statement. Because there's a stocking stuff that's already out there. Democratic members of congress have said that they saw some of the people who they think were people who are participated in the siege on january six in congress on january fifth having been given access by some of their republican colleagues to you know basically case the joint and so we could end up finding out that there was more kind of official either republican or trumpian complicity with this which could turn it into an even bigger wrenching national scandal than it already is. Yes i think that's possible if it comes out that one of the in on members really did sort of collaborate on an invasion scheme that's a different level from what we know so far. I guess my question is not. I totally agree that there are people who are serious about extremism and violence involved in this. I agree that some of the people who sort of present as unserious can become serious under the right context. I guess i'm uncertain about two things. One what is the absolute number of people who are actually serious about violence here and to and you know and the number of people who were there with zip ties those kind of things like i. I wanna know what those actual numbers were. So it compares to like the number of people who are seriously at something like charlottesville for violence and two. I wanna know what happens to those people who maybe are about to become serious about violence when the full weight of the fbi and the surveillance state and the national security bureaucracy comes down on them because that hasn't happened yet precisely because so much of it seemed like costs play. Well i don't know. I wanna say i don't think that's right. I don't think that the reason that the national security bureaucracy hasn't come down them is because it seems like cost play. I think that we've seen people in the department of homeland security saying that. They have been pressured to shift their attention from right wing extremism to muslim extremism. right. I mean you had this guy. Darrell johnson in two thousand nine. The senior intelligence analyst in dhs writes this report about growing white supremacist white nationalist militia activity and the right completely loses. Its mind. They start baying. Janet napolitano to be fired and eventually this unit in. Dhs is disbanded. Darrell johnson leaves government. You've had throughout the trump administration people coming out and saying they're being pressured not to spend their time and resources investigating the far-right right. So elizabeth newman come out of d. h. s. people have talked about it in the fbi and so of course. Oh now now that's going to change. Yeah no i think in a substantial way. And i guess. I'm saying that i'll be curious to see how potent and resilient this particular form of right wing extremism is in its insurrectionist form. When it's done this. I mean a lot of people said we'll charlottesville. Was this big victory for the right. And in fact charlottesville was after the violence and murder and the tragedy there the next time the right tried to do a big rally it was a big joke and maybe this case is different and it creates this kind of recruitment and copycat stuff. I'm just not sure. And i'm also not sure how the world looks after the pandemic speaking of Institutions coming down hard on right wing extremism When we come back. We're gonna talk about facebook twitter and the vast digital empires decision to d platform donald trump. So we'll be right back This is so many sen gupta. I'm a reporter for the new york times. I've covered nine conflicts written about earthquakes. Terror attacks droughts floods many humanitarian crises. My job is to bear witness right now. I'm writing about climate change. And i'm trying to answer some really big and urgent questions about life on a hotter planet like who is most vulnerable to climate change. Should we redesign our cities. Should we be eating differently. What happens to the millions of people who live by the coast as the oceans rise. To make sense of this. I talked to climate scientists. Inventors activists mostly document the impact of global warming and that impact is highly highly unequal. My colleagues and i are doing our best to answer complicated questions like these. But we can't do that without our subscribers. If you'd like to subscribe to and why times dot com slash subscribe and thank you and we're back michelle this week. You wrote a column about what i think is one of the most important long-term issues to come out of the riot and its aftermath. Which is the debate over social media companies banning donald trump trying to purge his more conspiratorial supporters from their sites. And there's a lot more stuff going on around that. But do you want to summarize the collins argument for our listeners. Sure i mean the argument is basically that the platforms were right to ban. Donald trump in large part because they were just treating him like they treated everyone else right. I mean these platforms band people who promote violence and spread pernicious conspiracy theories not all the time and they don't do it really consistently but they do do it and people don't generally think it's a huge problem. I don't remember any of national outcry win. Roger stone was kicked off a lot of these platforms. Or when steve bannon was kicked off some of them after he called for the beheading of tony faouzi people in trump's circles. Who post the kind of things. That trump posts ended up getting kicked off social media. And you know kind of banning their terms of service and there's not really a first amendment issue here at least an obvious one because these are private companies. You don't have a right to have your speech. Amplified by private companies and in fact as conservatives have long argued private companies have a right to first amendment right to freedom of association right to not associate themselves with speech that they find a point. That was a significant part of the argument. In masterpiece cake shop and some of these cases about bakeries. That don't want to provide cakes for gay weddings and you know i would argue that. The freedom of association should be limited by civil rights law. Right i mean none of these platforms should have a right to say decide that they're going to ban muslims or you know kind of ban any category based on race or religion but they do have a right to ban people for inciting violence and spreading pernicious conspiracy theories and they do that and they get given donald trump a pass on this over and over again because he's president and so it's entirely justified to my mind to take that pass away right especially since it's not as if donald trump lacks of their channels of communications or kind of other ways to broadcast himself to the public at the same time. It's sort of frightening but like a handful of these callow young silicon valley gazillion heirs can just basically make a decision to shut someone out from these huge communication platforms. That aren't really analogous to publishers. In part because basically everyone else on in the world has access to them and just the fact that donald trump is such a diminished figure. After having his twitter feed taken away right the fact that it really has sort of changed our political culture shows how powerful this is and to me suggests that you don't want this to just be the whim of jack dorsey remarks sucker burke or you don't want it to depend on the internal pressure of these companies. You want some sort of rationalized process and a process that has a system of appeal because otherwise it's going to seem incredibly arbitrary and capricious. So i don't know what do you think. Did you think it was right for them to kick donald trump off. I'm not sure you site in the piece. Um some people who american liberals would not necessarily expect to be troubled by the decision right angle. Merckel hongo angela merkel of germany. Alexey navalny right. The russian dissident who is no admirers of donald trump. Or you know obviously vladimir putin both said you know that this is a dangerous precedent in different ways and from the point of view of european governments. Right there sort of particular question about like. Well what does it mean to have. These american companies exercising this this kind of power that could potentially be exercised over us. But you know the point you made near the near the end to that like what. What does it you can. You can certainly construct a strong case that donald trump violated various norms and terms for twitter. But obviously that case can be applied to iranian ayatollahs and the chinese communist party and different people who have quite frankly i think that's the case for banning more people. Yeah that would be a case for banning more people. Yes i also just. I tend to think that these platforms in general are extraordinarily pernicious and have had a toxic effect on liberal democracy. Which i value quite a bit still still sticking with liberal democracy. Yes no. I think that's right. I would like to see them. You know kind of defanged in broken uk. I actually tend to agree with donald. Trump's culver getting rid of section thirty of the communications decency act. Because i think donald trump doesn't understand what section to thirty does right. He seems to think if you get rid of that you will not be able to police conservative voices whereas actually getting rid of that will either destroy these platforms altogether or force. Eight much more stringent standard of moderation. I just think the effect of these platforms and you can listen to somebody like Maria raza the filipina journalist who is constantly being threatened with long imprisonment by the duty regime. And i've just talk about the role that these platforms have played in consolidating his power and facilitating harassment of journalists and dissidents and whatever social benefit. We've gotten from them just. I don't think that. In general the authoritarian turn in global. Politics really happens without them. Well and the and the other thing. Here i should interpolate and save it for those who haven't listened to it. We have a special bonus episode of the argument this week. Where are soon to be fearless leading host. Jane kosten hosts debate about precisely. How section two thirty could be reformed. Or whether it's just basically good unnecessary. The internet depends on it so if you want to go deeper into these questions i recommend listening to that to that last point. Michelle though i mean one of the things that was striking about. This was that. of course. twitter didn't act alone right that you had this sort of general donald trump ban across all kinds of social media platforms. You had you know. A facebook ban and then amazon stripping away the servers for the right wing social media network. That is something of a cesspool but also presents itself as sort of a wing alternative or more pro free speech alternative to twitter and what's weird about these platforms. They are kind of a consortium i. I'm not sure what the right description is for them but the fact that you can sort of see them move together like this in a way that i heard behavior right. I mean that's that's the same way in which you've seen a more general stampede away from donald trump i people who've been indulging him for all these years. I mean which has just been fascinating. Somebody who has waited for this moment for four years thought that any moment american institutions. We're going to act in their own defense to turn donald trump into a pariah. And they just you know haven't and if anything to kind of use an overused word have normalized him more and more and more and then suddenly the dam broke. And i think that has to do with both him inciting this terrifying attack on the capital and the fact that he's about to be out of power right so all the sudden somebody says oh we cannot buy anymore and you see the sam away from him. By corporations by major sporting events by the city which new york city decides to cut off the contracts for concessions that has with donald trump that are making millions of dollars a year which really stunned me that they could have done this for years ago right but like the capital of the resistance had this tool in their pocket and did not do it earlier which i think goes to the fact that even though the trump is you know think they have been unfairly marginalized because melania trump doesn't get to be in the cover of vogue like michelle obama that in fact a lot of institutions. Have when faced with the choice. They've been faced with this president. Who's a demagogic madman. Nafta decide whether to treat him like a mad manner to treat them like president and they treat him like president and then the other piece of it was parlor is that there was seemed to be planning for terrorist attack. Going on on its site right. There were certainly many many calls for assassinations going on on its site and was probably true of twitter and facebook great. So they're not just making a decision about do we want to be associated with donald trump. It's what do we do given the knowledge which we've had for quite some time and they should. Have you know welcome to it earlier. But now they have knowledge that if there's a follow up to the capital attack. They're kind of a party to it. But i i guess. I i would say that in watching this happen in watching all of these places of move together in concert you can you know sort of see why why you might not want that to happen exactly. Absent absent some provocation of this scale. Right because it does sort of it shows you where certain kinds of consolidated power lie in american life right and the conservative waking up to like the fact that a wholly privatize public sphere is not great will. This is a tricky thing right. The public sphere has always been privatized in the sense that it has always been dominated by private companies newspapers television networks and so on there's public up sort of corporate power isn't great either right but i'm just i'm just saying it's not the novelty of the of the tech platforms and this is what makes this such a weird vexing problem. The novelty of the tech platforms is that. It's just not clear what they are and facebook and twitter and all of these companies exist in this bizarre zone where they are not responsible for the content that they're producing or benefiting from and yet they are to some extent as we've seen just in the last week they can in fact exert tremendous power. Twitter has a larger power over donald trump. That it just exerted than any you know newspaper. Tv network had over a precedent in arguably then congress had rate. I mean in some ways. That's right that's the other thing right. Yeah and i mean. I agree with you. I think that there's an you can tell a story where actually the problem really is section two thirty right that basically by this thing that people argued with sort of necessary for the internet to be free so that you know message. Boards couldn't get sued for. You know the crazy rants that were posted on them as ended up enabling the creation of these companies that has helped destroy actual journalism without having any responsibility sill facebook or twitter. The way you could sue the new york times if we published blatant defamation than these companies would be much much much smaller. The reasonable fear. What would be my fear ride as you know someone who has a few opinions outside the mainstream of american politics right. Is that the benefits to being part of a big social media network as a participant in social media as a human being who participates in them are such that most people will stick with facebook and twitter and these kind of places even if they are restricting content. A lot more and they won't go back to their local newspaper. Which is what. I wish they would do. They'll stick with them. And so you will end up with something that you know both conservatives and the further left worry about right which is sort of most of the public square will be sort of strictly policed for kind of center less orthodoxies. That's that would be my guess. Whereas i tend to think that you know the the the reason that i am at least open to the idea of getting rid of section two thirty and i guess i could be persuaded. That's bad ideas. That i just think it might destroy these companies and i think these companies should be destroyed. Yes no i think. That's i think that that eight totally. I think these companies are bad. And right so yeah. Yeah we've run out of arguments. So i think we have reached enough agreement this segment of the argument that we should probably end here and i think i haven't done a recommendation for a while so i guess i'll offer one but i'm a huge door who reads fantasy novels and so it it's important. You know since the point of these recommendations is to come up with things to take your mind off the news thing that has been taking my mind off. The news most is in british. Fantasy novelist named joe abercrombie. Who's written. i guess it's probably up to like ten fantasy novels that unaccountably hadn't read until a friend. Who's let's say arguably an even bigger dork than. I am told me that i needed to read them. And they're really. They're really good and they're called. The initial series is called the first law trilogy and in certain ways it's very conventional fantasy set in a world of on the cusp between the middle ages. and some kind of renaissance. It's also sort of a rim dark revisionist fantasy in certain ways You know wizard. Figure is a lot more. Ambiguous than gandalf was and lord of the rings. And there's a lot so it's like a dark at the it first reboot of lord of the rings and they're right and there's a lot of fantasy novels like this and i don't i don't actually love that style abercrombie. The novelist is He's a little bit too in love with violence. He's a little bit too in love with writing sex scenes that are like deliberately written to be extremely gross seeming. I think so. Those don't sound like intense recommendations but the books are just. They're they're just really really good. Can you summarize them can you. Can you tell me what the plot i mean. It's a fantasy novel you know there's a sort of of great powers you know sort of bunch of like norseman in the north and a kind of english frankish style empire consolidating in the middle of the world has sort of fallen down. Roman style imperium. That's seen better days and extremely familiar. Yeah yeah we'll fantasy functions as not all fantasy but a lot of fantasy functioned as sort of refashioned versions of the last thousand years of human history or the pre sixteen hundred version of human history. But then there's also a supernatural element where they're sort of essentially a conflict between wizards that is sort of the background to superpower conflict. So and this is. This is okay. Well anyway i. I'm very much looking forward to the. Hbo mini series version of. Yes i think this story okay. So once the recommendation again hours later the recommendation is the fantasy novels of joe abercrombie. And that's our show for this week. The argument is a production of the new york times opinion section. Our team includes allison. Bruce phoebe gutierrez vishakha darva isaac jones. Kate sinclair polish. Shuman and kathy too. We'll see you on the other side of joe biden's inauguration but it's just like one battle five hundred pages. Oh my god. That sounds horrible. Now well yeah.
Ep. 154: How To Stop The Coup Klux Klan (feat. Daryl Johnson)
"My podcast her was created by me using the anchor app. Anchor is the free podcasts platform that allows me and you and anyone to set up in start their own podcast free of charge so that your voice is heard inker will distribute your podcast for you again free of charge so you can be on spotify on apple podcast many more now. Why are they doing this. Why have they done this for me. Since my very first podcast in in december simply it's because they believe in the democratization of audio pure and simple and because of that. That's why i use this platform. Don't forget it's free and it's easy to use encourage you to download the free anchor app or go to anchor dot fm and get started. I can't tell you how many people i've heard from from you. People listening to this podcast. Who have gone on to create their own podcast. I'm so happy to hear this now. More than ever our voices need to be heard I usually begin by saying this is rumble. But today this has rumbled a my friends. This is michael moore and rumbled day today. Means it is impeachment day part. Do police academy to accept better. this is. This is impeachment day wednesday january the thirteenth. One week one week after the president of the united states incites a riot and calls upon tens of thousands of semi armed supporters of his to storm down pennsylvania avenue to our united states capital and try to take it over try the coup and within one week and by the time you listen to the seniority be impeached. But he is going to be impeached today. What a great lesson for all future presidents to learn. If you do something like this you are impeach within seven days and now now we have the great news unbelievable news. Actually that mitch. Mcconnell has told people that he believes that trump did commit an impeachable offense and that he may have to go mitch mcconnell already. Republicans are lining up to vote for impeachment today in the house. Liz cheney dick cheney's daughter. How many deaths is dick. Cheney responsible for that's for another show but liz cheney and in Peter mirer than congress from michigan There are so many just as started recording. This they're just like one after another republicans were announcing that they were going to vote for impeachment today and now the senate. There's already half a dozen. Senators have indicated their desire. That trump has got to go. But now mitch mcconnell mitch. Mcconnell does that mean that may call the senate back in this week in convict him before inauguration. Day the evidence. We've all seen the evidence. Those discovery needed here. How is that possible well today. possible the impeachment. That will happen today if it hasn't already happened by the time year. This again just was talking to basil here before we started our great executive producer podcast and he was saying. Hey wait a minute. Which should we be on an amtrak. I mean we can't be an impeachment. Unless we're there and i said i remember i was there. I was there on the floor of the house for clinton's impeachment. The very first day of the hearings there with ken starr. I sat on the day behind. John conyers. I was a staff member so i was there for clinton's impeachment dazzle night. My sister we were there for trump's first impeachment the only other impeachment. Her history was was andrew johnson in eighteen sixty seven or sixty eight. We not alive for that. Although there was the grandfather was born. So i don't know if that counts but so we miss. We miss the great impeachment of the of the nineteenth century. But but i can say that. I have been at every impeachment. Every presidential peterman in the twentieth century and the twenty first century. I don't know if i can put mac but boy that just feels good. But now except we're not gonna run out there today. Cova damn you the extent off their light anybody in there today. They probably got the place. Button-down after what happened last week. But thank god thank you. Thank you democratic leadership. Thank you for not wanting out. Thank you for maybe thinking about being new democrats as we enter this new era. The nam went democrat democratic party era. We need you. We need the so badly we need the fight you the could fight violent peaceful smart using our brains not using american flags to try to beat a cop to death like they did last week. Wow it's It's really something. It's really really something isn't in just the every day for these last seven days i've been asking. Where is the press conference. That federal enforcement would be having if there was any other incident any terrorism. Any school shooting. Whatever there's a big gaggle of microphones and a gaggle of press and a gaggle of people is to go after the microphone. The share of the police chief the mayor the governor her all talking about this horrible incident that just happened and that one of them no microphone in all these days since this incident like. Where have they been on. I'll tell you where they've been. They've been trying to get their story together because they knew this was going to happen. Many of them decided to turn their heads the other way not be involved. Not do anything about it now. They've learned that a number of their own members actual on-duty cops in plainclothes participating in the riot on-duty sheriff's they've identified in the photos at least two nypd who drove down there to be part of the riott to seattle police officers. There's a sheriff from another state. There's a police chief there may be. Fbi there may be national security. And there's a ton of military that were there last wednesday participating in it. Participating in the violence trying to be part of a coup to overthrow are united states congress to try and stop the votes from being counted so that the loser could become the winner in. We're gonna find this out my friends. I mean i don't have to just. I'm not picking up on that part. I don't believe in the conspiracy theories here. It's just i've lived long enough in this country and i know the truth and the truth is there is going to be a ton of military and ex military that were involved in that last week and We're gonna we're gonna learn all this but they finally had a lame ass. Press conference yesterday on tuesday here and and it wasn't a big gaggle of people at the fbi didn't come out the attorney general the acting one. He didn't come out they sent. They sent these two lugs out to talk to oppress. That was not allowed in the building. The press had to call in they only allow like four questions for prescott to talk somebody from nbc abc. Cbs fox cnn. That's it no new york times none of that no just the the tv press. They got to ask a question and then they're full mine was cut off and the answers that these two gave it was a representative from the fbi. Andy a united states district attorney from the district of columbia So and because. That's that is discussed. The district of federal office it's controlled by trump. he had to be appointed by trump. I'm i'm i'm assuming They did their best to try. And bullshit their way through the press conference without ever saying anything and it was disgusting and pathetic and we learned nothing than that. We're still in a lot of trouble it would. They didn't want to address the the cable that they got from nor folk virginia from the f. b. i. Office there last week telling them that there was going. A war was being planned on the united states capitol. Wow so as far. As i'm concerned the press conference still hasn't been held. We are not being told the truth. The press is not being allowed to ask questions. That's because they're trying to cover this up. It's embarrassing to them. They blew it again just like they did with nine eleven fucking idiots so fucking stupid now working with each other not listening to their own field offices. And not wanting to admit how many white supremacists and racist are part of their law enforcement divisions and because of that that's why they let they let the angry white people who look just like them and feel just like them right through the doors in the ones the few capital police that fought back a lot a lot who were black and brown who got their head. Smashed in It was hard to get through those doors but the others capital police. They were right this way. Or you wanna know Chuck schumer's offices over here. Nancy pelosi just on that on. Then turn right when this all comes out my friends when you hear say defend the police yoder stand. We don't mean defunding police like we don't need any police and let's take all the money away. We talk about the current police. What we call police the racist that run. These police departments that occupy these police departments. That are not there to protect you and me unless we have nice white skin and a good bank account and living in neighborhood then there then we'll be protected but everybody else is going to be is going to be. Harassed is going to be victims of violence from these agencies and then when something like this happens when they help some of them helped to participate and planet we will not learn the truth until somebody is appointed to dig in and get the truth. And please. don't give me robert muller again or any of this bullshit. I want a real. I want the real sherlock holmes to tell us exactly what happened and when we hear it it ain't going to be pretty but we're going to fix it and we're going to remove a lot of these so-called law enforcement people and we're going to keep an eye on them because they're going to join those militia groups and those right wing extremists and we're gonna talk about that here today on rumble. Because i have with me very special individual who wrote vive report back back Twelve years ago in two thousand nine he worked at the department of homeland security and he wrote the report to warn the american public about the rise of right wing extremism and for writing the report they were for. They fired him his staff Right wing media just came down on it so hard obama back down and then they closed down the domestic terrorism Office there that he was working in the homeland security permanent setting up setting up some twelve years ago the eventual potential overthrow of our government. That took place last wednesday. He'll be with us Here in just a few minutes. But i know listen. We're all on pins and needles here because armed attack number. Two kutu is being planned right now by these extremists groups and there will be violence between now and then unless unless it's prevented unless it stopped and please democrats joe biden. Do not run and hide. That inauguration has to take place outdoors on the steps of our capital. You must not let them win. Yes take every single precaution necessary but if they see if they can get away with this they're going to believe they can get away with anything in your mr biden. Your entire for years is going to be not making policy happen to make a better country. It's going to be with a distraction of of violent episode after violent episode. When we need to be getting rid of covid when we need to be bringing people back to work. We need to be giving people money so that they don't go broke all the issues. We need with healthcare immigration. The daca kids. Everybody all those things that you say you want to do in that we're going to do. And then they don't get done because you're trying to deal with the fact that we have terrace amongst us and they're going to try to slow down and stop everything you're going to do or not. You're going to stop them. Everybody who's planning right now to come to. Dc next week for those tens of thousands of you stayed there in and around the area. Because you're planning phase. Two of this assault i mean. They said that they're going to fifteen thousand national guard. Troops there in dc. Not enough a lot of these. Groups are going to attack state capitals. Nbc at a report on tonight showing the michigan state police as increased said. They've increased their presence at the michigan state. Capitol the one that the armed militias takover back in the spring and then they showed a shot of five michigan. Stay cops on bicycles driving. They're riding their bicycles around the state capitol grounds. My friends. this isn't going to do it. You need a full force a full force with with all the armaments that you need to stop them and stop them. Cold see they think liberals lefties democrats whatever bunch of wimps. Most of us aren't gun owners. Violent people so they thought they could do this and they did. They stopped the united states. Government from operating for a good seven hours there last wednesday. They shut us right down. And don't you think that they are planning to do that again. Nah not just there but in state capitals across the country need to you. Those are listening to this today on impeachment day need to be asking your representatives in your state capitals. What is being done to protect us in our state capitals in the coming week or two compete. Don't stop them now. You're going to be dealing with this for the next four years. They must be stopped. They must be stopped cold. No one being around your friends know combined. They are hell bent on violently violently making sure that the government cannot function. We know why they brought those zip ties those handcuffs. They were planning to cart away. Members of congress they adult a gallows with with nooses. Did you see the full. The picture of this on the grounds of the capital. That's their fantasy. They talk about not just killing. Nancy pelosi but they wanna hang mike pence because he wouldn't stop the counting of the votes and and trump angry at him tells the crowd this that pence. It's not a good boy in pennsylvania avenue. They went to as they were chanting. Hang mike pence kinder- stand. I'm talking to all of you now. Republicans democrats liberals conservatives. Whatever if this isn't stopped right now. We're doomed for some time before i bring our guests on to secondary just want to present some good news some happy news. Today a wire came across the table mid afternoon. That the law enforcement. Or i was the attorney general. Whatever but they are going to us. Acute the ex governor of michigan rick snyder. The person responsible for the poisoning of flint michigan. He is going to face justice. I haven't seen any further story since we started re recording here. But but this is. I mean years years those of us from flint who live in flint. Now or like me. I live north of flint. But we all of us from there. We fought for this and demanded this that he be arrested. He came in when he got into office and he came in and he had the mayor of flint removed and the city council any appointed his own latkes to run the city. The city was broke and so the duly elected people at the people flat wanted running the city or removed. He installed his lackeys pro-business republican latkes to run the city and he tells them cut cut. The budget cut cut services too much money being spent on flint majority black city one of the poorest cities in the country and his lackey. That's running the show. Says i got a great idea You know the drinking water. The water that people drinking implant comes from lake huron which is seventy miles away. It's gotta be piped in the cost of that we could save money by cutting them off from the lake. Huron water and have them drink from the flint river the dirty filthy flint river. Yeah we'll put it through some processing gulf filtering this and that whatever he says how much money will we save the for our. The number was with some ridiculously low number. And he said yeah. Let's do it. let's talk. Let's cut them off from the good water and so the people will plant into so drink from the river in within days. People's hair is falling out their skins turning colors and worst the lead in it the lead in that river water went into the bodies of children If you're six or under and you just lead For can you can never get it out of your body the harm the damage done it. Does this for life in mostly what it does is it. Provides permanent damage permanent brain damage. They figure at least ten thousand kids implant at permanent brain damage. As a result of the governor's decision to poison the city by him than drink the water in the ini knew it could get away with it because they're poor and their black in. I was going to say anything and nobody did say anything. And then once he. The governor was told a year into this. Hey this water testing really bad. In then he tried to cover it up for some time until certain people decided to do something about it into inform the public today associated press announced that he would be facing charges. It was the only good news of the day that and the fact that in the coming hours donald trump will be facing his second impeachment. So you see. It's not all bad sometimes. The system works. Sometimes we have to make noise to make it work. Let's bring my guest here for today. As i've said we knew and our government knew that this day would come this day that we're in right now this week that we're in right now all of us living pins and needles to some extent not really knowing what's ahead here back in april of two thousand nine sabih about three months after president obama was inaugurated for the first time the department of homeland security issued a threat assessment and it was entitled and. I'm quoting right wing. Extremism current economic and political. Climate fueling resurgence in radicalization. And that was the title of the report. Now if you remember back then now we're talking early. Oh nine you know we just had the crash eight so back then. The economy had just crashed the wise that sent our troops to war in iraq had been exposed there were no weapons of mass destruction and the american people had just voted for hope and change. Making barack obama are should i say barack hussein obama our first black president in a landslide. Now this report from the department of homeland security it warned that the economic and political conditions would now be ripe for recruiting right wing extremists including disgruntled military veterans and that these groups would now become more violent so instead of doing anything about combating this threat the threat that was described in the report of nine The opposite happened. it was leaked. This report was leaked to right wing media who attacked its author and attack the obama administration and force them. Gets you guys dane. By remember this force them to resend the report. The report warning us of right wing extremism in how this was going to grow and the right wing media fox. Limbaugh is set era. Demanded an apology to all veterans and to turn the nation's focus. Back to killing moslems that was the real threat the muslims. The people who worked on this report would soon all be out of job. They're all out other jobs. And the unit at homeland security. That focused on this kind of homegrown wing. Terror threat was disbanded. This banded there would no longer be this this unit within homeland security to protect us from potential right wing. What is wrong with us my friends. How many times have we heard the story right. How do we end up even with nine eleven because of this kind of my grandparents were called tomfoolery. The author of this report back nine was a former army named darrell johnson and he was the senior analyst for domestic terrorism at the department of homeland security and he was to have been banished. Gone vaporized forgotten. But he didn't go away he didn't give up. He started his own private consulting company for those state and local law enforcement agencies. Who actually did believe this was a potential threat amongst others and so he formed his own small consulting company to consult with those law enforcement agencies that gave a damn about this and he survived and he is with us here today. On rumble please. Everyone welcome Darrell johnson daryl. Welcome thank you for having me on your show michael. Well thank you for taking the time. I know this is a very busy week and There's a lot going on and there's a lot. There is a lot of activity and not enough of it. I i was just talking to somebody an nbc Has gabe good as their correspondent there in lansing and the capital in michigan and the attorney general just a few hours ago. declared that the state capital the state capital in michigan the one that was overrun by our militias earlier. This year None of them arrested by the way That she said today that the state capital of my state is not safe. The capitol building is not safe. And then they were interviewing this woman. Who's a state senator from detroit. Who has taken an as as have other state reps and senators. They've taken in bulletproof vests. She said she had it hidden under her her desk. On the floor of the michigan senate but because she's even afraid tomorrow to walk to work from her from the state senate office building across the street that she's taken the bulletproof vest over to the office so that she can put it on there to walk across the street to do the people's business in the michigan state senate and they said that the michigan state police were aware of the threat and then it showed and they said they were increasing their presence and they pull back the camera and this is what i i love so much about some journalists especially some photo journalists who know that we will understand the irony. The camera was pulled back to reveal the michigan state police on the grounds of the michigan capitol building and there were five of them. I'm bicycles darryl Let me just ask you right off the bat here. Because don seriously people are scared shitless right now all across this country. They've called for armed marches. This weekend through inauguration day in all fifty state capitals and and of course in washington. Dc what is our threat level rate. Now and in an employee's give us an honest answer. I know you don't want to scare people but this people will listen to this. Podcast know that i am. I do not like hope. I i mean i like to be hopeful and i like to be optimistic but i also believe that we must be told the truth because fake hope or or kind of hope that's created to calms down Is not real. Hope that's something else im- it's our we need. We need the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth and i i di data wanna hear what you have to say about this Because while i know it's not the end of the world and i know that These militias do not number in the hundreds of thousands I'm not i. Because i live in michigan. I i know what the real threat is. I grew up with it. I as i've said on this episode on this podcast a number of times. I graduated the same year. As terry nichols the person who worked with to me mcvay to blow up the oklahoma city federal building and we grew. We graduated the same year in high schools next to each other. I went to davis. Nice school he went to lapierre highschool those from michigan. No the geography of that and just a few miles away and So i've been familiar with these guys. You know for a long time and and because not that. I was one of those guys. Because i was raised by different parents. But i was. I did win the nra marksman award When i was an eagle scout. So so i i i know how to operate a gun and i know how to be very specific and exact with it nonetheless. I consider myself a pacifist. Daryl where we at today right now before i answer that question just want to let you know that. I'm also an eagle scout and got my sharp shooter quality conscience with my rifle and shotgun edge. So you you and i. We could have shoot off at some point now to get now against each other. Just i mean competition to answer your question michael. I don't want to be an alarmist. But i want to make sure that people are prepared for the time period that we're about to enter. Some people might think that this insurrection than we saw the capital last week was kind of the last dying breath of a movement that once trump is removed from office when he leaves office distress. It's gonna miraculously go away. It's not that event. Last week is the beginning of a new more dangerous violent phase of right wing extremism and we're going to encounter this threat not only for the coming days leading up to the inauguration of but for many months even a few years to deal with this so it's very important that our government as well as our citizenry. Our faith based organizations civil rights organizations everybody come together to recognize this threat to develop strategies to combat it because believe it or not white. Supremacy was pretty much the historical most violent domestic extremists in america. Just by the sheer body. count But my concerns ever. Since i was a trained intelligence analyst dealing with these issues has always been the militia movement in the reason why i say that is because they are the most capable of any domestic extremist movements. We have in this country as far as firearms ammunition explosives and training and it only takes them to get organized around the common cause that they're very passionate about whether second amendment rights or the erosion of our constitution. Or now this new. You know fake allegations of voter fraud. these are the types of things. They galvanize these people can redirect that passion that they had the not the violent capability onto our own government and so we're entering a period of high risk for terrorism violent criminal -ality by these types of extremists. I don't disagree with any of that. That's exactly how i feel about it and And and i've taken this very seriously for some time Back when i had a tv series on. Nbc called tv nation and then on bravo called the awful truth Back in the nineties. And i went and spent a day or two with the michigan militia and it was obviously pretty frightening and then In a later film in bali combine. I went back and spent more time with the different michigan militia and They I asked each of them with cameron the microphone. So what do you do for a living. One guy says I'm an accountant. Next guy says a real estate appraiser next guy says i do drywall. I mean it was quite a variety in and there were women there too. They weren't all guys Just like last wednesday over many women present so that being your assessment I think the first the short term question the that we maybe need to answer right now is what do we do right now. Do we do about tomorrow. What do we do about tonight. What what do we are listening to this. We the american people. And most americans seventy seven percent of the american public does not own a gun at the actual statistic. They we think of ourselves. People think that were a nation of gun nuts. But that's not true. The majority of americans do not own guns and the next twenty percent after the seventy seven percent. The dog on guns. The next twenty percents decent people mostly hunters Target practice and some have legitimate reason for their production It's the last three percent in washington posted a great story on this last three percent of americans that own half the guns in the united states. Now you may say three percent much. Three percent of three hundred million is quick. Somebody help me with a math. They are It's it's a nine million people. All right nine million people own half the guns which are they. Think are approximately We have over three hundred million guns in private possessions country so they own the guns they own over one hundred fifty million guns this three percent of the population so So for those of us in the people listening to this who maybe do not own guns and do not see that as a way to protect themselves to protect the country over the next week or two let alone as you imply that post trump where we've got maybe a bigger problem on our hands. What what do you write. What is your recommendation. start with. Just the the personal recommendation so that people will not Feel that their lives are danger even though they may be on some level well the first thing is we shouldn't panic. We shouldn't panic doesn't work and we shouldn't ignore it anymore. We should just cower in our homes and be afraid this is gonna take a lot of effort on all levels of community in government has got to be top down approach in also a bottom up approach obviously from the government outlined some of these recommendations back in two thousand twelve testimony to congress after the sikh temple shooting in wisconsin but starts with recognizing the threat calling out for what it is terrorism domestic terrorism. Don't try to minimize it. Don't try to divert attention away from it. In once we understand in recognize it then we can be able to collect data on it will be able to devote more money and resources to it and strategies on how to combat it on the federal level. We need training. I'm in favor of domestic terrorism. Statute that delineates roles and responsibilities among federal agencies. This is not just the fbi job homeland. Security has a role other federal agencies. Have a role so we need the training. We need the domestic terrorism statute. We need to devote more money and resources to long term undercover operations to identify people that are radicalizing mobilizing towards violence. The social media companies know they have a role to play by policing their content by informing the police when they find somebody. That's becoming more radical in towards violence but our communities you know. I think we need to have clubs programs in our schools just like we do for anti drug and anti gang programs. We need anti hate programs because it starts in the home and family among our youth who get indoctrinated with this stuff when they grow older in the last thing. I'm going to recommend. This may sound counterintuitive rather than ostracize and condemn and debate. These people belong to these extremist movements. We actually need to embrace them On a person to person level if it's a family member a neighbor co worker you need to show love and compassion towards these people. I've never met an extremist or heard about an extremist that left their radical ideology because somebody proved them wrong or debated it needs to be done in a loving way maybe a humorous way but reacclimated them into our communities and make them have a sense of belonging. I think will go a long way in. The last thing i'll say is not a single extremists that i've ever heard about left movement like i said because of debating is always been through an act of love or compassion shown towards these people. So that's my advice. There's a lot more things we need to be doing. But those are the highlights of it. Let me say something about that. Last point you mean because i know there are people listening to this right now going. Are you kidding me. Glove them embrace them. But i want. I want if anybody has seen my movie where to invade next where i go to nine countries and show what they've done to fix essentially made of the same problems we have and i went to different country for each of the problems when was for health care and one was education. One was Nutrition and But i went to norway because they had just had a terrorist incident domestic terrace norwegian. Who was part of these right wing groups that have been outlawed and and their speech had been outlawed. Have little paper. They couldn't hit make up their handbills. They couldn't do anything so one of them. People remember this incident ten years ago. And if you remember This right winger Put on a police officer's uniform he wasn't a cop and and Took a boat over to this island. Where all the liberal party. They're like their social democratic party. All their children were like at a summer camp for the sons and daughters of liberal left types in norway and he went to the island with a bunch of weapons. And oh my god. Did he kill sixty. Seventy of these kids and And just kept firing. They had nowhere to go. They couldn't get off the island. Some jumped in the water to try to swim back to the mainland It was horrific and They put him on trial but they also studied him and his in his brethren and the commission there after he was convicted And there's no. You cannot serve more than twenty years in a norwegian prison. That's the law And so he was convicted for the fall. Twenty years they. The commission released their findings. And they said that What you just said. Daryl that the only way to bring their violent nature down get of all of it but bring it down is to not shun them in not muslim but but and they did this. They actually put it like a soap box in the main city park in oslo norway where anybody could stand up and make a speech and you could say anything. I mean you could say the most hateful things if that's what you wanted to say. Because they realized this. Is that that when you try to prevent. If you clamp down to hard they get so wound in so out of so insane they end up doing things like what this guy did on the on that camp island those kids if they decided they've got to be able to speak their piece even if we just are revolted by it and we have to trust as we have for emo- civilized societies. We trust that the majority of people will shun them. I mean we'll shine the message and They won't they won't get. They might get a new recruiter to but they're not going to be made martyrs and It's very it's in my film. I know it's hard to explain people listening this going after last wednesday. I don't wanna hear anything about love or kindness. Her any of the stuff but what we do have to put a stop to this at some point and it won't come through debate or muslim. I'm not even sure it's it's i mean. This is a controversial. And i don't i don't know how i feel about this issue. 'cause i have my own feelings about facebook and twitter and all this but By stopping them there they just go someplace else and then you stop them there and they go and and the more they go they deeper. They go into their own cave in hiding. We don't know what's going on then and we don't know how sick their minds are becoming. What do you think about this daryl. What i'm saying. I mean i i agree with what you just said but i also know a lot of people listening to this and and You know especially anyone who's black or brown listening to this doesn't want to hear about anything other than what are we going to protect ourselves from these crazy individuals. Yeah obviously you know the victims of right wing extremism. You don't have to show that love and compassion if they don't feel like it same with strangers okay. This is the responsibility of family members. Friends coworkers people that interact with these extremists on a daily basis. Those are the ones that are going to be influential and trying to pull them back and reacclimated into society. But you're exactly right when we censor their speech online. It's like playing whack a mole. they're gonna pop up in gravitate somewhere else and then we lose that ability like you said to hear the mouth and see what they're doing and seeing whether chat about what's radicalizing them end worcester grievances So you know the answer to me is not censorship. that's not really in american value. It's you know allowing these people to congregate weaken if there's conspiracy theories in disinformation being spread. Maybe there's a way we can a somehow. Put a label on websites or content sanded. This is unproven or not. Or this is a conspiracy theory. Or what have you not credible in also give recognition to those institutions and organizations that are credible sources. Give them kind of a better seal of approval by the better business bureau or something kind of thinking. The box here when when twitter started saying When trump would tweet something that wasn't true they would start up just saying well. There's a dispute on this. Then finally just got more blunt and i just i just put a damn link to an article or something that will people will read it. And they'll see the truth and not all of them will get it or whatever but but i mean i want to devote all show to this issue because it is. It's a civil liberties issue this issue of free speech. I'll tell you we're going to be able to arrest a number of these ringleaders and the people that made the violence happen because we're going to be able to see what they were writing and saying on facebook on twitter etc by by kicking them often shutting them down. It's like they go in. what are they plotting. And what are they talking about. Because now we don't know i don't know they're they're so full of their own ego. They are proud to post on facebook and proud to post on twitter. And and if we lose the means know what they're doing then we have to create the secret police and then we have to create the secret internet and like you said london domestic terrorists. You again if you're black or brown. What you're hearing there is yet because if the wrong administration is in power they're going to use that domestic terry unit to go after black people and brown people and people that are demonstrating to try and stop violence or whatever. They're not violent people themselves but you saw even bill barr says say that that i mean he even suggested that we need to. We need to drop some sort of articles On this insurgency the summer of people or or just asking not to be shot when they're when they're they're pulling out their cell phone that's a whole nother discussion. Michael and talk about the bias is within policing the social injustice the racism Know i've been out there. Advocating and educating people about how antifa is not a terrorist organization and even if they had been right and if they had some violent elements is. There's no comparison between the amount of violence. We see from the far right in the far left at least in the past several decades right do but what about i mean there were. There's photographs now of on-duty police officers from other cities flying to dc last week to participate in the riot. There i mean these are actual on-duty police officers are they showed to from seattle. To from 'em wisely there are some new york firefighters there There was a police chief from somewhere in the country was a sheriff from some other state. They were there participating in the in the violence and and it's like well. Wasn't there a report recently. They level of of white supremacy or racism that exists within our police departments. It's it's frightening on some level it is and there's even a investigations ongoing with some of the capitol police officers that were taken sell fees with some of these extremists possibly letting them in through the door showing way to schumer's office and showing them that this i'm telling you i've filmed so many times in that capitol building. I still if you asked me how to get the nancy pelosi's office. I couldn't tell you how to get there that that that i didn't know that she had a little cubbyhole behind. Her speakers are dais there that that's the door they were breaking and trying to get through. They knew that they knew. That's the secret pelosi door behind the podium and it's like how did they know that while they knew that because inside people whether it was the police but it also could have been republican. Staffers ordinance republican members of congress themselves giving them the information in the map so they could get to where they wanted to go to this this when this comes out if what i'm saying is true if the investigation finds this this is going to be so revolting and so there's going to have to be a demand i mean i've already put up my website. One hundred and forty seven names of the republicans who voted to throw out the votes of the american people that even after hours after the violence they they stood there and said yes yes reject the votes of the american people they committed an act against democracy on then it was so i i saw upsetting to me. I think the millions of others of people like how are we going to deal with this and in and in and in the in the near run between now and an inauguration day. I just don't when they say they're sending fifteen thousand national guard to dc. My first thought not enough fifteen thousand versus one hundred thousand who could show up. Not enough The michigan state police on bikes. Not enough nine. Somebody needs to take this seriously. Because i take it seriously and and i know that they are in. They are emboldened and empowered by what happened last week. They boy they know they got away with something. They got the whole nation on edge. And they're loving it and they can't wait for round two yeah. They perceive themselves as do-gooders patriots. You know they believe that. God is on their side that they're saving the country rather than tearing it down going back to your point about police officers being sympathetic Members these extremists groups. You know what. I've been advocating is. We need to take administrative action against these types of people because they clearly joined organizations that subscribe to conspiracy theories. That believe in disinformation so it really calls into question their ability to be objective Their ability to make decisions properly and You know some of these officers have clearances. They have access to sensitive information. So one way to tackle this. I kinda package it as not a criminal threat but an actual insider threat counterintelligence concern. You know these people aren't worthy to have clearances. We should restrict their access to sensitive information. They should not be out on our streets policing when they embrace these types of extremists radical beliefs. They you know some of them should be fired. Some should be reassigned to desk jobs demoted. So those are the types of things. I think you need to be done. That can be proactive. And actually have an impact. My my lack of optimism on says like it. Just give you one. Example tree. Probably saw it on the news a month or so ago. state of california cove rise was shooting through the roof and so the governor Said that If you're going to be out in public and around people you have to wear a mask. And they add on the sheriff of. I can't remember if it was Riverside county or san bernandino. The one of the the far east county using in that border nevada and arizona in california and the sheriff right on. Tv just said hell no. I'm not obeying that order. You're right to wear a mask or not mask. And i'm thinking okay on that one level i get that but on this level that you not wearing a mask is killing people killing people if you are posing a threat to me or my family While the extreme answer to that is if you are if you're trying to kill me. I have a right to kill you now. We don't want to go into the country. When ruben but it's like i it's it's don't i have a right to protect my family and myself from somebody who could be carrying the covid virus and and because of just talking to me just breathing. I end up with cohen. And i end up dead Is that person killer is that person. was an active manslaughter. Exactly what was it because hey what it wasn't it wasn't somebody exercising the rights of their first amendment rights to not wear a mask. Yes definitely negligence in being a publicly elected official. Let's lead by example maskhadov shown improved to be a deterrent. In whether you personally believe that or not do the right thing. You represent the people you serve the people. The cdc and other scientific organizations have recommended this countermeasure. So do the responsible thing and wear the mask when you wrote this report on the rise of right-wing extremism back in two thousand nine Immune have a crystal ball. You couldn't forsee in where we're at now or the convergence of some off. Just all of awful things from the pandemic Combining having happened during the trump era and then had happened during a new rise of of right wing extremism but You know today in twenty twenty one who who are who are these people. I mean when we talk about them. Because i saw people interviewed that got planes. And when to participate in this attempted coup was a schoolteacher or principal from ohio. There was like the normal people. Now not all wackadoo save but they were just like normal american people that you would never never think that this is what they were up to if you were sitting next to them on the plane going what what. What does this look like today. And how does it differ from when you did that report In two thousand nine yes back in two thousand nine. We were primarily concerned about white supremacist militias workers as and a movement called sovereign citizens These are people that renounce their citizenship. Don't obey the laws or regulations of government in their business violent confrontations with police with these people that have fervent religious beliefs Backup this conspiracy. Theory of being sovereign free man. But there's been new movements created since. Oh nine we've got organizations like the oath keepers. These are basically an anti government group that believes in conspiracy theories like fema kamson chemtrails stuff like that but they actively recruit military and police in ems firefighters. So they're really out there trying to bring in both former and retired military members in police we also have a little bit more of a hardcore militia movement called the three centres which is relatively new. It was formed in two thousand eight. These people immunised a lifestyle to them. The whole family is in doctrine into this way of life is not just the male figure or the the couple is the whole family so we have a new generation of kids. Teenagers that have been indoctrinated by their parents and by other members of these movements and there really is a of a lot of those lama phobia. They've been at the center of these stand that we had at the bundy ranch in twenty fourteen at the mouth here. A wildlife refuge in oregon at twenty sixteen and so they're kind of hardcore element within the militia movement. In finally i mentioned the qn and conspiracy theory which is relatively new. I think it came on the scene in twenty seventeen and this is basically entire belief system. That's poisoning the minds of a lot of conservatives. Republicans basically through this anonymous person who has a q. Level clarence and the government and supposedly leaking information about this evil cabal of democrats that are child molesters pedophile 's and it really gives these people Agitated angry in so these are the more dangerous elements that were represented at the capitol grounds as well as some of these other protests. That we've had these antilock down protests again. I don't wanna give people more depressed than they already are. But i wrong to think as you said at the beginning of this that we are entering a new phase of this This rise of right wing extremism are are we. Does this mean that the four coming for years here of the biden era that we're gonna and he is going to have to in his agenda is gonna have to be distracted by and dealing with This kind of violence. This kind of attack It's it i mean you. Can you could write a script about what could possibly happen here that we become So Affected by various incidents and events of violence. That that he'll be which is this will be music to their ears here. This he'll be unable to govern govern properly. That in the way. That obama was was blocked and You know all the things. They did to stop obama from enacting his agenda. Those were an ex violence that was. That was just the the a Evil geniuses of the republican party that knew how to shut down any kind of real vote to get anything done. I'm talking about joe biden and the harris being shut down because of the threat that a minority small minority of people will pose and the violence that they will Enact to the point where we will be we will be facing one nine eleven one january six eleventh incident after another in and the things that we need to get done. Getting rid of covid Getting people back to work making sure everybody's got enough money. Nobody's victim from their home. All these things that are facing us right now. Health care for all the things that we need We're not. We're not gonna have a discussion about this. Because we're going to be so frazzled. And so frightened by event after event after event perpetrated by these militant violent extremist terrorist type individuals. While i think that goes back to my point that this needs to be addressed at all levels of government as well as communities is certainly going to be a distraction. It's certainly not gonna go away in the next four years. It needs to be a priority for our government officials but private-sector citizens churches They all need to play a role in combating this threat. In one of the reasons why. I'm concerned that we're entering. A period of higher risk is i've studied this. Phenomena of domestic terrorism for four decades of my life. Goes all the way back to. When i was fifteen years old i kind of had a gravitation towards this type of topic but typically these for rights groups go away during republican administrations but this trump administration has poured fuel on an already burning fire until now a raging inferno and. This is the first time in the four decades that i've studied this where these groups grew and continue to conduct attacks under a republican administration because typically during democratic administrations. These four right groups are fearful of gun restrictions. they're fearful of minority rights being expanded. They're fearful of immigration rights in those types of topics that typically are people related rights that the democrats try to further expand in so. That's what's creating this next way. This new phase the more dangerous phase of this right wing extremist problem. Okay so now. The democrats are back in power. They hold the senate the house in the white house now. Not the supreme court So what do we go back to this question. But what do we do. Let me say this. Let's say. I talked to joe biden. After of this podcast here tonight and i talk with him. He's already picked his homeland security person but know Darryl johnson man you know got the raw deal there when he tried to warn us back nine and he'll go. Yeah yeah yeah. I remember that Daryl johnston for deputy homeland security director or or or second deputy. Maybe whatever. But if i were to hand you hand you the magic wand right now where you were at near or at the top of homeland security. What are the things that you would do. That would instantly start to protect us but also preserve our our Civil liberties We don't want to live in a police state we don't want to be spied on and we don't want the police sick on Black and brown members of our community. What would what would you have. You've just given you the power. What would what would you do with this. How would you. How would you set things up so that we're not going to have to deal with what we had to deal with last wednesday. We don't want this to be every wednesday. We don't want us to be every month this this we are. We are already crazy right now. From from coke nineteen And being locked into our homes Help us out here daryl. Number one i do not have quest for power theft situation were to arise politely and respectfully decline it. Because it's took such a toll on my personal life in my emotions subject. I like to sit on the sidelines of voice. My opinion give some good ideas. I'm sorry to hear that it did that too. That's really wrong but to your question michael. Hypothetically if i was in charge immediately called together a the best experts in minds regarding this subject get their ideas discussed them come up with a plan in devote money and resources to whatever ideas this committee come up with. I've already given you some other ideas areas of emphasis that we need. But i'm sure there's a lot of other good ideas out there that i haven't even thought of well we need you now. Your country needs you. I'm sorry to put this on you. I'm sorry what happened to you because what you did was you gave us a huge huge warning. You know some some Twelve twelve years ago now. And and i think a lot of us just on the home know what to do because they we don't really believe in responding to violence with more violence so You know so. What's what's the peaceful way to do this. I heard the things you said in terms of what we need to do on an individual basis. I completely agree with all that. And i've said on this podcast. We need to put more money into schools in libraries because the children of maga- nation. If if they get too good skulls if they read books if they read you know media that is telling the truth they will grow up differently from their parents and And we will be you know if we would please restore civics classes which have been eliminated in the lasting. I saw nearly half of our schools. No longer civics restore those things that teach people about how this democracy can work and if we can institute laws to make sure that the democracy does work in that the rich who by the candidates. Don't call the shots. you know. this does cause a lot of of this this disgruntlement because because working class realizes that they're never going to get a break and so and that's why it's easy to manipulate people that are down on their luck like that but it's it It seems like as a society if we did all these things collectively That that maybe maybe in the short run we're going to have to suffer through some of this until we shut it down but in the long run in the next generation just like we raised a whole generation of kids in these last twenty thirty years. That didn't grow up to be haters are bigots or homophobes. They these kids. They love each other and they don't judge people by the color scanner who they're in love with. It's been wonderful to see that. That's the majority of young adults now It that that maybe. When you were younger i was younger. That wasn't the case so it has gotten better and we. I don't know what. I mean much feeling account to kind of leave on a positive note. I wanna share with you. What i have done as an individual to try to contribute in you know chefs Threat so just. Within the past year. I accepted positions With organizations that have emissions at combating far right extremism the first of which is based out of madison wisconsin. It's called. We are many united against hate night assume of voluntary honorary board member role in. We're in the midst of a program that we're trying to roll out nationwide on forming these anti hate clubs in high schools middle schools not to get kids to come together and discuss this issue and talk about the dangers of extremism conspiracy theories and things like this. The second thing i've done is i accepted. Nonresident fellow position with a washington tank called the center for global policy were writing threat assessments without the restrictions that i had as a federal employees to help continue to warn and assess and give policy recommendations for what we should be doing to to stem the threat. So encouraged all your listeners. To look at those two organizations. See the work that i've been doing. And hopefully it'll catch your interest in you can join up and help us. Spread the love and compassion. I will look both of those up right away. And i encourage people to do the same. I thank you for the work that you've done over the years that you continue to do and the the consulting that you do with local police and sheriff who sheriff's departments who want to leave behind the old way And find a new way to do policing and law enforcement criminal justice So thank you for that Darryl and Thank you for for being on rumble and Let's let's pray we get through the next week. Yeah no doubt and michael. I really appreciate the opportunity to increase people's understandings and discussed this topic so kudos to you for regional inviting me on your show. Thank you very much darrell. We're all in this together. I have just a few more things. I wanna share with you before we close but before we go any further. I wanna thank our our longtime underwriter Here there with us through most of our first year express. Vpn now as you say you know. All of us have very little choice. My comes to choosing her internet service. Provider these huge tech companies. They operate monopolies like monopolies And they they use this power. They have to take advantage of you. The so-called customers in this includes logging your internet activity and then selling that data to other big tech companies or advertisers so to prevent these internet service providers from seeing your internet access city. You all of you emmy can now protect our devices with this. Wonderful thing called express the p. n. All you gotta do is download the app you tap one button on your device and boom. You're protected. I mean literally. It's that easy and express. Vpn are wonderful underwriter. Here they do all this without slowing down your connection as why it's rated number one you know. They have the vpn ratings every year. And once again rated number one expressive vpn is all the way to stop handing over your personal data to these big tech companies who mine your activity and then sell off your information. Protect yourself with the vpn. It's worked for me. You go to express vpn dot com slash rumble. You gotta do the slash rumble there. So that they know that you support their support of rumble so you go to express. Vpn dot com slash rumble express e. x. p. r. e. s. s. v. as in victor p. as in paul n. as a newfoundland express vpn dot com slash rumble. And if you do this and you sign up you get three extra months free because you are a listener of rumble with michael moore. So go there right now. You can learn more about it. It's boom hit the button boom. You're protected express. Vpn thank you. I wanna close today by just going over the we call it the weekly bullet points what we've been talking about since last wednesday's attack on the capitol building the seven things. I what. I call the seven critical truths of this coup attempt and and and we need to ingrain them in our heads and understand the matter how they try to be s. We know the we know these truths to be self evident. And i'm just going to quickly go down them for eight before before we close here and employee share this with others. Share this podcast If you want a written account of this i've got. I've got them listed on my on my own facebook and and I think i think you can get it on on twitter and you can get most of instagram. They don't rely more than two thousand words but Anyways here we go my seven critical truths about the last week number one. This attack on the capital was an inside job in which some republican get this some republican members of congress and their staffs assisted the mob in getting into and through the capitol building. Trust me on this one point this happened in. We're going to find out the truth of an who did it. And by the way. I also have listed on on my facebook and twitter instagram. The hundred and forty seven republicans. Who voted in an act of sedition the sedition caucus other republican party two thirds of all republicans in the house and an eight or nine senators voted to throw out the votes of the american people. Hours hours after the building was attacked and their lives were endangered. They went back in there and voted on the terrorist demands and gave the tara they lost but those who voted for it. They were voting to give into what the terrorists wanted. How number two. The number two thing to remember various elements of law enforcement also assisted in this attack as did rogue cops and current and ex military from around the country. And as i've told you we have pictures of current members of the nypd in the seattle police force. They were all there they were there they were part of it. There are white supremacists racists in every single police department in this country and we must remove them from these departments. Who are we going to defend them. We're going to defend the racist in the white supremacist. Said easier for now for what he take the understand what we're talking about okay. Number three trump was the ringleader and the insider of this coup attempt and refuse to send in the national guard when when various calls were coming to him from the capitol police and from the mayor's office and he refused for hours as a result. More people were injured in in a police officer was killed number four. This attack was a dry run for more violent attacks. That terrorists are planning to launch both before. And after the inauguration the number five truth is that even members of congress new shit was going to happen last wednesday and the police know it homeland security nuit. Fbi knew it and some of them in the way that they part to. I'll give you an example police not the police themselves but the their leaders there's twenty three hundred members of the capitol police force nineteen hundred. Were told to stay on this day a day. They knew that was going to be violent. Only four hundred or so reported work of the twenty three hundred it. The whole thing was designed in set up for them to be overrun and their lives are put in danger. In many of them were injured in one of them died in one a day or two later committed suicide number six of the very few terrorists that day who've now been arrested and i mean very few now one of them has been charged with terrorism. Trespassing is the most common charge. They all have to be arrested and tried. And finally number seven white supremacists were everywhere in the mob. Last wednesday some wore t shirts proclaiming six white. I saw to one said six million six million were enough. Meaning the six million. Jews ost then one other guys. Six million wasn't enough are as i've said our military in our police departments have been infiltrated by these white supremacists. And we have to deal with us. Those are it clear. Keep those in mind and We're gonna see a lot of republicans. Try to change from there wolf from there wolf where to their sheep's clothing in the next few days and watch them. They're going to get behind the impeachment now. Thinking that that that this is the way that they'll be able to say hello. Yeah they were against this and other calls for unity. We need unity mike. We need to all get along now. Let's look forward not backward to last wednesday forward. Well the kind of unity you want no fucking way. Here's the kind of unity i want. I believe in the unity that says the law is to be enforced in. You are to go to prison. That's my kind of unity. My unity says that the vast number by by eight million or so decide that they want joe biden is president and they believe in the things that joe biden believes in whether it's issues with economy peace the environment that's because the majority of americans believe in those things that's the unity we the majority are all together on this. I'm whatever these issues are in how we want a better this country in the world that we live in. That's our unity. And here's the bonus for you. Who are not part of us when we get health care for all americans. We're going to get it for you to when we get free college for our kids. We're going to get free college for your kids to when we clean up our environment and protect this earth. We're going to do that so that you live to. That's the bonus with our side. You see when we come in we. Just don't try to pass tax bills for the one percent. What can we get out of it for ourselves. Mimi me no no we come in and we pass bills that benefit everybody including you especially you. That's the unity that we're going to bring you and we are unified in here this very clearly. We are unified against violence. We are unified against anybody. Who would our vote from us. Who would suppress the right to vote. We are going to fix this for our black and brown fellow americans who've had to suffer. That's our unity. And you are not going to get in the way. I mean that. And if you don't think. Joe biden and kamla harris means that or nancy pelosi. Chuck schumer on them. Your inference very rude awakening. I think it's best that that you wise up fight for the things you believe in to do it nonviolently. You're gonna hate if you continue behaving the way you do. You really gonna miss your family when you're behind bars for ten to twenty years. That's gonna suck. Don't do that. They need you do the right thing. Be a good american. There is no other choice at this point my friends. This was a long episode. My apologies for that. There's so much going on right now. Thank you for listening. Thank you for sharing this with others. Please write to me. I've read all my e mails. Mike and michael moore dot com easy. And i have on the podcast pager. I have link where you can leave me voice mail and i listened to all my voicemails so please do that I'll be back here in a few days. If i need to be back sooner because things have happened than we'll have an emergency podcast version of rumble But i'm here. I've got your back the best i can We'll get through this. Thanks to my executive producer basil hamden our editor and sound engineer. Nick laws and everybody else. Who's helped with this podcast. Don't give up come on. This is our moment. This is when we can shine and we can show ourselves and our children and our grandchildren in the rest of the world. The things we really believe in stand for this is thank you. Everyone michael moore and this is well. It's impeachment day in its rumble
Salisbury Steakout: All Baseball Talk
"This is the sean salisbury. Show sean out there now. The cells stakeout. Brief steakhouse on the sean salisbury show. Heavy f. t the only one the ashes making the playoffs heavy. Yeah so as i mentioned during the commercial break apparently jeff passed in also has the as winning the al west and does not have the card. Keller may surprise surprise surprise surprise. His coverage of the astros throughout the years has been less flattering invest. It makes me feel confident about my picture because some because i never played baseball in life thinks he knows something about it. Look to have them in a picture wearing a wizard. Having to know something ok he does not know anything. What are you know. What the stakeout. Heavy t which you got so same. Espn website different article. Different writers. They put together some of their best case. Worst case scenarios most exciting players for each team. David schoenfeld added each team's most bold prediction. This is what he said about the astros alvarez bregman korea and kyle tucker will each hit thirty plus home runs as the astros re-claim their ale west thrown now we know that the l. western part potentially has a lot of chances happening however each one of those dudes hitting more than thirty home runs. Is that to bolt of the prediction. Or do you think that could happen. No it's absolutely and right. Say it again. Tucker bragman korea and al tuesday alvarez. Oh alvarez thirty thirty plus last time that happened you know who was looked at in one season. Four dudes. Let me take a guess given the year. Mc you have if you have to find it. I'm assuming non astro same Actually yeah it was there. They were the last one. Yeah was it. Were they really twenty. Nineteen they had yuli out two bregman and spring. That's right you hit thirty and they had alvarez at twenty seven okay before that wasn't does it say i don't see the then never mind go back but you're talking is how many infants at four inch no d. h. And three infielders. Yeah can you imagine a four infielders at thirty home runs and to base capable of it every one of their semi regular players. That you're hit four guys. Thirty home runs a here. They had a total of five six. Six guys take your morning. That's pretty impressive or seven. I should say seven hundred that That in yuli hit thirty that year. You said you thirty three go. There goes for the. That's okay so what you're saying. Do we agree with it. those four. Yeah i would absolutely. I think all of them had no i. Don't i don't find it'd be that even if the balls like they say this i'm not worried about the ball me either. I'm worried about more than anything. Just the i should not worried about offense. I think that the pitchers are going to struggle this year compared to to most years. I think there's going to be a lot of teams that are going to have issues. Yeah a lot of problems. A lot of different starters on a lot of different teams. Yeah i. I'll say this if they if that happens there winning the division wrist in spite of pitching hall they. Yeah they have four guys. Hit thirty home runs. And they're going to win the division five games. Say no that it won't happen but bold prediction. I don't think it's that bold. I think it can happen. And it won't shock me if it does and i had forgotten just like i think we're sitting here thinking win and i forgot the ford guys. The astros did just that soon. Two years ago. I mean i think six almost six of their starting line six of their starting lineup. Probably hit five or six twenty at least twenty. Did he leave tucker put him in. He was the other guy. Can talk to your don carre and bregman. What's that what was the you. We're thinking well we infield back in the day and then i think it's happened before then but a team housing and the only reason i refuse back when the dodgers did it okay when they had a i think it was four guys. Hit thirty or more home runs in one year. And i don't think it's happened a lot major league now in the modern baseball with the ball juiced era. But i'd forgotten the astros did it so But i'm trying to think of go through other teams on the court. We anybody else do it. In years four teams. And maybe it's happened three or four times. I will take a look. Mc go ahead what you got. Who leads the astros and wins this year. I think the obvious choice is the guy who started for me. Consistent fifteen sixteen wins. The i'll take with the is great as they are. Yeah i'll take him. Yeah wouldn't shock me somebody in the middle like Like you know if all the sudden Our guy Rookie jumped in. And and and did. But i'm gonna take great care at the top. I think is consistency is Then pretty impressive. i'll take him. I don't think it's like. I don't think it's eighteen or nineteen wins but i think in that fifteen sixteen range and i think a lot of guys will be hovering around ten to fifteen range. I think they're capable of that. Yeah it looks like the last time maybe that the their thirty was two hundred nine the phillies so four guys them there so it's happened more than i thought it was. The was it harper harper but You said two thousand nine hundred eighty two thousand and so who who. Who was it had to be worth right. He was on that team then worked he wants. Myanmar has to be a said thirty home runs. I pull on one second role on. Yes jason jason worth. So so it's probably have been. It's happened probably three or four times since two thousand happened. More since nineteen seventy seven. It's happened was that the dodgers team that did it. Yeah okay so how many times it happen. Twelve has happened that many times. I didn't i i always thought it was with the astro. Two thousand eighteen or twelve. This what was it did. It was dusty. Baker baker. Say garvey and reggie smith. Yeah there you go. What was the next team since that. That time what was the next rockies and ninety five okay so it was almost what twenty years. Yeah it took twenty years field opening and then then three of the teams that have done it had been. I guess i shouldn't have bought any six but do you think about that. So it's coors field opening than what else is there. The steroid era right. The ball's juiced so basically what you're telling me is that the dodgers did it in the seventies is the only time fair time there you go and you make a great point mc is it was so easy because back in the days when like the ellis burks dante bichette rockies right they they you said three times four dudes yeah. Eighty four ninety five ninety six ninety seven ninety nine four or five year. They sucked like every year. Right larry walker has to be has to have done it every single year. So we got to know. Oh well we got the legitimate. There's only one rocky. That's on there every single as a todd helton nine this vinny castilla. Oh yeah he was on every single one. I would never would have stopped being a poll question. I would have to say this happened to other times. I would've said okay. I didn't even think four times but you think about like you said the steroid era but i would have never thought that thirteen times four guys on a team for thirty five runs. I would have never. I would have been at that parkway i get the dodgers and when he say colorado makes sense but legitimate where they're all legitimate but you know what. It's normal ballpark fly. They win the dodgers did it. Everybody was like oh my gosh besides the astros and the dodgers every team that did it was between ninety five and two thousand nine. so what else. Steroids right the air. Where the team other than the astros right to do it outside of the the juice of that era but still impressive back when they were doing it but it happens on a regular basis in the astros are probably is a quipped is. Is there a team more equipped hit. I guess the angels have three guys. That should hit thirty right. They won't have four but they have three a lot they re i don't know how much is he gonna run. Is he gonna hit supposed to pitching. Yeah if i just curious about how they handle him all year right you you. You are getting hurt if we combine otani and pool halls. Maybe they get over. Thirty doesn't count. That's a very strong. Maybe that's not fair. Otani yankees could have have a bunch of health. Yeah same thing. I think the blue jays could also do the buddhists could have. Would you guys have thought. Would you guys have guessed. Any of the dodgers what i said would you pick the dodgers with dusty steam on the four teams would never thought of it What did have we. When's the last time. I'll tell you remember. You know who We going through time in atlanta braves. Darrell johnson and david johnson and darrell evans. Now's the time when we hadn't had two guys on one team for a while when they are in atlanta. Hit forty home runs or two or three guys on that same team at forty runs in a season. I think it was the seventies braves david johnson. The former manager playing second base hit him. And darrell evans. Left handed first baseman. But i don't know how many times we had three guys are. More two guys are more hit. Forty home runs on a team more of those rockies teams. I went ahead. Threes at forty. There you go. And i don't know how many times has that happened. That's a combination of colorado. Answer right. i just wonder that hasn't happened a lot. He's throwing steroids on every single plane. Is i just curious how many times that happened. That's even that's even a tougher question because we haven't had many guys that was a launching pad in atlanta. Don't check that out. We'll come back and discuss. I'm just curious. How many times more than two guys on a team of hit forty home runs in the same season one. How many times. Maybe it's happened more. I don't know it just seems like it hasn't been three have had three forty homers seasons ever. Who is it braves. Are they that with evans and david johnson to that happened that year. Yeah okay and then who else or seventy three braves ninety six rockies ninety seven. So that's that's a tough one and think about the astros will have four forty homerun hitters this year. Take it to the bank. Think about that though to forty home. Run guys on the saint. You'd think with all this time that we're talking about that we'd have more wouldn't there with the way the ball flies right. And who would have thought. If i said who is darrel evans davey johnson you decide mantle and merits before you said that right to trip man statistics how they change and you get skewed. Sports talk seven ninety.
Democracy Now! 2019-04-30 Tuesday
"From Washington DC, this is democracy. Now. This is Davis. I'm in Washington in order to participate this afternoon and action. We're calling one hundred black women and defense of Ilan, Omar, then losing it for black lives is rallying today on Capitol Hill to defend congresswoman Ilhan, Omar of Minnesota and to urge congress to censure President Trump for as tax on Omar one of the first two Muslim congresswoman ever to serve and the first job wearing number of congress. I have people every single day on Fox News everywhere. Posting that I am a threat to this country. So I know what fear looked life. The messages, the must do I. In Minnesota got bombed by to the Mesic white terrorists. Then in the wake of the deadly synagogue shooting and San Diego, we speak to a former homeland security department official about how the federal government is long ignored right wing violence. Plus, we get the latest from Venezuela. Where opposition leader though is reportedly attempting to launch a coup today. All that and more coming up. Welcome to democracy now democracy, now dot or the Warren peace report, I made me Goodman. We're broadcasting from Washington DC in breaking news Venezuelan opposition leader Guido says a coup is underway and dacas Guido appeared this morning and video with soldiers claiming he's quote, starting the final phase of operation liberty, unquote. This comes as jailed activists Leopoldo Lopez claimed in a tweet he's been freed by sympathetic officers in the military and called on Venezuelans to rise up against the government. The nNcholas Maduro Lopez also appeared in a video posted online. What is happening in the capital today? All Venezuelans who want freedom should come here. Disrupt. Order join and encourage our soldiers. Join our people. Good morning Venezuela. Let's do this together. Who's announcement was welcomed by the president of the European parliament who called it a quote historic day for the return of democracy and freedom to Venezuela, unquote. It has the backing of the Trump administration in many members of congress, including Republican Senator Marco Rubio, Florida who tweeted quote after years of suffering freedom is waiting for people. Venice Walea do not let them take this opportunity from you. Now is the moment to take to the streets in support of your legitimate constitutional government, do not allow this moment to slip away. It may not come again, unquote. It was not immediately clear where President Nicolas Maduro is his ally. Bolivia and president Dave Morales said. In a statement, quote, we forcefully condemned the attempted coup d'etat in Venice. Suelas which is being conducted by the right and backed by foreign interests, unquote. President Trump's imposed new restrictions and asylum seekers along the US Mexico border ordering them to pay fees in order to apply for work permits and refuge in the United States. The new restrictions set to take affect in ninety days would also require already backlogged immigration courts to settle asylum applications within one hundred eighty days. Meanwhile, the intercept reports the department of homeland security hired the private intelligence firm looking glass, cyber solutions to spy on social media accounts -ffiliated with protests against President Trump's migrant family separation policies along the US Mexico border, President Trump and the Trump organization are suing Capital One in each Bank in an effort to block them from turning over financial records to congressional committees this month House Democrats issued subpoenas for the records as part of several probes into the. Trump family myriad businesses. The New York attorney general's office is also investigating Trump's ties to each Bank last month. New York Times reported Deutsche Bank loaned over two billion dollars to Trump for real estate deals over nearly two decades even when other banks refused to do. So Trump still had over three hundred million dollars in outstanding loans from Deutsche Bank when he took office in two thousand seventeen the Pentagon has acknowledged it's investigating four dishes military members for their ties to the white nationalist movement known as identity Europa bringing the total number of the group's members known to be under investigation by the military to eleven this comes after prosecutors in Maryland revealed new details in their case against Coast Guard, Lieutenant Christopher Hassen who was indicted on gun and drug charges earlier this year, they say hasn't searched for the home addresses of two supreme court justices and targeted to social media company executives. He. Also, reportedly searched for the phrase, please God, let there be a race war. In Christ's church. New zealand. Police arrested a thirty three year old man Tuesday in connection with an explosive device. Amunition found an vacant building. It was not immediately clear if the arrest was connected with last month's attack on two mosques and Christ's church by white nationalist gunman that killed fifty people and wounded fifty others in Los Angeles. Federal prosecutors claim Monday, they foiled terror plot by US military veteran to bomb several southern California targets including the multiple targets and southern California, including port of Long Beach on the Santa Monica pier. This is US attorney neck Hannah complaint charges. Mark Stephen Dominica Domingo's the twenty six year old resident of recedo with a felony offense of providing and attempting to provide material support to terrorists, Mr. Domingo's, ESPN states, armies, former United States army soldier who served in Afghanistan. And also a recent convert to Islam. Fortunately, the eye that he planned to use actual bombs. They were devices provided by the FBI that posed no danger to the public. Critics have similar terrorism investigations conducted by the FBI's joint terrorism task force say agents have repeatedly manufactured plots in order to attract young Muslims a review of fifty murders. Committed by extremists in two thousand eighteen by the Anti-Defamation League found forty nine came at the hands of right wing extremists with white supremacists alone accounting for thirty nine of the murders in San Diego, California, friends and family of Lori. Gilbert K gathered Monday for her funeral of the Kabba of power way synagogue, the same place where she was shot to death Saturday by white nationalist gunman after she put her body in the line of fire to save her longtime friend the synagogue's rabbi Gilbert Kay's daughter Hannah, K quoted Nelson Mandela as she paid tribute to her murdered mother. No one is born aiding another person because of the color of his skin or his background or his religion people. Must learn to hate an if they can learn to hate they can be taught to love love comes more naturally to the human heart than it's opposite. So. The Trump administration's preparing to designate the Muslim Brotherhood as a foreign terrorist organization. According to the New York Times, the move comes after a White House meeting between President Trump and the Egyptian President of death el-sisi earlier this month see came to power in two thousand thirteen through it coup that ousted the country's first democratically elected president Muhammad Morsi, a former Muslim Brotherhood leader. Since then CC is designated the brotherhood of terrorist organization within Egypt and government is carried out a brutal crackdown on supporters of the political movement, including the two thousand thirteen rob massacre in which security forces killed at least one thousand protesters and injured thousands more policy. Experts say the designation could hurt the civil liberties of American Muslims and lead to a clamp down on Muslim civil rights groups and charities which are routinely accused by anti-muslim groups of having ties to the Muslim Brotherhood. This comes just weeks after the Trump administration. Designated Iran's elite revolutionary guard as a terrorist organization. The Justice Department's number two official rod Rosenstein said Monday, he's resigning on may eleventh as deputy attorney general Rosenstein oversaw special counsel, Robert Muller's investigation into Russia's role in the two thousand sixteen election after former attorney general Jeff Sessions recused himself from the investigation, although he was nominated by the president Rosenstein endured public attacks from Trump who just a few months ago retweeted an image depicting Rosenstein, and several Trump critics behind bars suggesting they should be jailed for treason, Trump has nominated deputy transportation secretary. Jeffrey Rosen who previously worked with the Torney general William bar to replace Rosenstein, the head of ISIS has appeared in a new video for the first time in five years. It was the first propaganda video showing Boubacar Dadi since he was filmed in two thousand fourteen proclaiming the creation of the Slavic state. At the great mosque of Newry and most of the rock in two thousand seventeen Russian media claimed albuque- Dadi was killed in an airstrike in Syria in Mozambique, the death toll from tropical cyclone, Kenneth is at thirty eight expected to rise with agencies warning, but desperate struggle to reach people cut off by raging floodwaters category. Four storm was one of the strongest ever make landfall on mainland for it came just six weeks after another devastating storm cyclone die hit Mozambique and see surface. Temperatures off the coast of Africa continued to rise due to climate change in Western Sahara, Moroccan. Authorities have swept out across the city of Lyon in a bid to crush protests as activists call for a referendum on the status of the territory and demand the release of political prisoners video clandestinely recorded and circulated on social media site shows activists mean valley, and he's a Beezer being beaten. By plainclothes security officers as the women protests peacefully in the streets of Western Sahara's, capital Meena Bali suffered broken bones in our hand requiring surgery. Meanwhile, so Tana Kaya a fame. Sahrawi activists who had are gauged out by Moroccan police officer in two thousand seven during a peaceful protest was stopped by thirties. Trying to enter you and turned around the latest crackdown descent by Morocco comes as the UN Security Council set to vote today on an extension of the UN's mandate. Western Sahara, Morocco is seeking to prevent u n peacekeepers there from adding human rights monitoring to their mandate Morocco is occupied Western Sahara, since nineteen seventy five and no other country on earth recognizes that sovereignty over the territory to see our democracy now special for days in Western Sahara. Africa's last colony go to our website democracy now dot org in. Chicago Boeing held its first annual shareholders meetings since fatal crashes of seven thirty seven max airplanes in Indonesia and eat the opium killed nearly three hundred fifty people outside the meeting family and friends hold a silent. Protest demanding Boeing executives be criminally prosecuted. The demonstration was organized by the family of twenty four year old Samya, Stu MO who died March tenth when Ethiopian Airlines flight three oh to crash due to a full two flight control system. Stu MO is the grand niece of consumer advocate. Ralph Nader as Boeing shareholders met families of the crash victims held an emotional news conference to discuss their lawsuit against Boeing Paul m Girotti who lost his wife and three young children in the THEO peon airlines crash said he stays up at night thinking about the horror his family and Dewar as pilots struggled to keep the plane flying for six minutes. Seeks meets will forever. Be embedded in my mind. Oh, it's not fair to help. I couldn't save. It was up to Boeing and the other in charge to save we paid for light. But instead my family and others in that play of suffered a profile lows that can ever be mended. In Tennessee, Republican governor Bill Lee, attended a captive audience meeting of workers at a Volkswagen factory in Chattanooga. Monday, urging them to vote against joining a union in elections scheduled for may local media was not told about the governor's visit to the plunge and reporters were barred from the meeting, but a recording obtained by the news source. Labor notes reveals the governor firmly sided with Volkswagen management against unionization. Phasing vote face. Regular use wanted arm. Tennessee. Governor leaves comments, drew both applause and boos from Volkswagen employees May's election could see more than seventeen hundred Chattanooga plant early workers. Joined the United Auto Workers after a similar election drive in two thousand fourteen failed by a slim margin, filmmaker John singleton, who's directory debut boys in the hood told a gritty tale of gangs in south central Los Angeles during the eighties nineties died Monday after suffering a stroke. He was just fifty one years old John singleton was the first African American and the youngest person ever to be nominated for an Oscar for best director in nineteen ninety two in nineteen Ninety-seven he directed rosewood historical drama based on the nineteen Twenty-three rosewood massacre on a white mob. Kill black residents and destroyed their Florida town, and those are some of the headlines says democracy now democracy now dot org. The Warren peace report, I'm Amy Goodman, two of. Founders of black lives matter as well as professor Angela Davis and scores of other black women are holding a rally today on Capitol Hill defend congresswoman Ilhan, Omar of Minnesota and to urge congress to censure President Trump for his attacks on her Omar made history or this year when she and Rashid it to leave of Michigan became the first Muslim women in congress. She's also the first member of congress to where had job, Omar who was born in Somalia and came to the United States as a refugee has been at the center of numerous right wing attack since taking office congressman Omar recently said death threats against her have spiked in number since president. Trump tweeted video juxtaposing her image with footage of the nine eleven attacks in New York City. Many Yemeni Bodega owners are continuing to refuse to sell the New York Post after it showed an image of the World Trade Center on fire with a headline attacking, Omar. The emanate American merchants association said the cover provoked hatred and targeted people of the Muslim faith, Omar also been accused of being anti semitic for criticizing the power of the Israeli lobby in Washington and questioning US Isreaeli relations despite the threats Omar has refused to be silent. And it's continued to speak out against racism Islamaphobia right wing violence, anti semitism on Saturday. She condemned the deadly shooting at a synagogue and Sunday. Go writing my heart is breaking after today's deadly shooting at Cobb congregation and San Diego on the last day of Passover and six months to the day after the tree of life shooting. We as nation must confront the terrifying rise of religious hate and violence. Love trumps hate. She tweeted we're joined now by two of the organizers of today's rally Barbara rans, be historian author and activist advisor to the movement for. Black lives in one of the planners behind black women into -fensive ill. Omar Ron's latest book is making all black lives matter reimagining freedom in the twenty first century. Angela Davis joins us author activists professor emeritus at the university of California Santa Cruz. She's the author of many books, including freedom is a constant struggle. Ferguson Palestine and the foundations of the movement. We welcome you both to democracy now. Angela Davis you've traveled across the country to come here to Washington today. Why? I think it's extremely important to demonstrate that. There are many people especially with men, but people in general who support Ilhan Omar who has become the target of the vitriol of the current president. She is targeted because she is an immigrant because she is Muslim because she is a courageous bowl. Black women who speaks out and defense of Palestinians. She's not afraid to criticize is Vail. And of course, the current president has made her the the the target of of many of his attacks. We say that we stand with her we support her, and we will not give up the president pin? Tweet linking to a video of Ilhan, Omar going back and forth. Fourth with the World Trade Center bombings. Can you talk about the significance of this? And what it means? Well, of course, we know that since the election campaign that led to the fortunate election of Donald Trump, but Trump has used Muslims. As a as a foil. He he's of course, called for the banning of of Muslim immigration into the US. He uses this bizarre logic fungibility where one Muslim represents the the the worse or all Muslims rather represent the worst deeds that any Muslim has ever conducted. And is this logic fungibility that has that is at the heart of racism that is at the heart of Islamaphobia. And I think that all of us who are post to racism were post antisemitism post to all of forms of assaults against people because of the race background their ethnicity. Their religion should stand with Bill Hahn, Omar. So today at noon, professor Barbara Rennes be here in Washington, you and others have organized this rally for Ilhan, Omar that apparently she too will be attending to show support for congress member Omar talk about what may aided you to do this to come in from Chicago where you teach. Well, we're inviting we've invited a hundred plus black women to show up at the capitol. We didn't invite more we're trying to be aware of our carbon footprint, but we represent organizations and sectors. Their their faith leaders. That are coming women. Jewish. Women of color are coming Muslim, faith leaders Reverend tracing black men from United church of Christ. So it's a broad cross-section movement for black lives as call this gathering to physically show that we we will, you know, die set. You know, get ourselves out of our lives are. Busy lives and come here to stand with ill Ilhan, Omar. And she is not only being attacked as Angeles said because she's an immigrant woman because she's a black woman. But I was because she's a progressive voice that won't be silenced. Right. So she has spoken you mentioned Venezuela earlier. She eloquently called Elliot Abrams to task for his history of impure, violent imperialist interventions in Central America. And he is of course, being the point person for what's going on in terms of US policy in Venezuela. So very progressive voice. That is refusing to be silence. There's two things for us. One is that we see a growing trend of attacks on African Americans who dared to speak out on foreign policy issues, particularly the question of Palestine, of course, Angela Davis in in Birmingham was denied an award and then had the award reinstated because of her principal stand on Palestine, Mark Lamont hill fire. From CNN and the list goes on so went we're paired to save that we want progressive black voices in the spirit of black internationalism to speak out on these issues without punishment. And the second is, you know, the targeting of black women Trump has been vitriolic towards so many groups. But I think there's a particular venom when it comes to black women. He is attacked Maxine Waters. He attacked for Drake. Fredrika Wilson in Florida. He called former his former congressman congress member he attacked. I'm rosa. I certainly don't have very much political likeness to but but called her dog. So, you know, so this this kind of attacks black women just has to be opposed. You recently tweeted, we remember Anita as we come together on April thirtieth to defend Ilhan. Yes. In defensive Ilhan. Yes. Abso. Lutely. And it's interesting that need a hill has been in the news lately, of course, because of Joe Biden's bid and his inexcusable role in humiliating her and making her vulnerable. I was a part of a mobilization in nineteen Ninety-one. Call African American women defensive ourselves Angeles. Also, a part of it which came to the defense of Nita hill who was being vilified who herself suffered death threats and threats of sexual violence because of the position she was put in and the way that she was so publicly humiliated and vilified. So we see similarly with with Ilhan, Omar now, and these these kinds of these words have consequences. We see a rise in right-wing violence recently, a bookstore right outside of DC had a an anti-racist book event disrupted by white nationalist who literally marched through and intimidated people. So the brazenness and boldness kind of in the very much reminding us to pre Nazi Germany, and of course, the shooting and Sunday. The shooting in San Diego, the the synagogue the synagogue in San Diego, the synagogue, and in Pittsburgh, what happened in New Zealand all of these things point to the ways in which racist violence has been fueled. By the words of Trump and others. We're going to break and then come back to this discussion. We're talking to professor Barbara rans be historian author and activist as well as Angela Davis, author professor and activists who come to Washington DC with at least one hundred other women of color to stand with congress member ill hun, Omar who is facing an increasing number of death threats. Stay with us. John Williams theme to John singleton's critically acclaimed rosewood, this is democracy. Now democracy now dot or the warrant piece report, I'm Amy Goodman. We're broadcasting today from the nation's capital from Washington DC, I wanna turn to congresswoman Ilhan Omar in her own words. This is our speaking busboys and poets here in Washington DC earlier this year. What he looks like we experienced. Day. Talk about that threats. Have called talk about death threats and sometimes. In my state, where the gas stations have read on their bathrooms assassinate Ilhan, Omar. I have people driving around my district looking for my home for my office. Costing me harm. I have people every single day on Fox News and everywhere posting that I am a threat to this country. So I know what fear looks like. The mess Jide. The mustard I pray him in Minnesota bombed by two domestic white terrorists. So I know what it me feels to be someone who is a faith. That is Phil five. I know what it means to be someone who is of ethnicity. That is Philip fide. I know what it feels to be. Race race. Right. Like, I am an immigrant. So I don't have these sorta drama that some of my black sisters and brothers have in this country. But I know I know what it means for people to just see me as a black person and to treat me as less than a human. And so when people say you are bringing hates. I know what their intention is their intention is to make sure that our lights are dimmed that we walk around with our heads bowed that we know our face, and our voice that was congress member Ilhan, Omar speaking at the local restaurant and gathering place, busboys and poets in these last few months. Our guests are Angela Davis, author professor activists at university of California Santa Cruz, professor emeritus, and Barbara rans one of the people and movements who have organized with movement for black lives. Defense rally today of Ilhan, Omar as you listen to hunt, Omar Angela Davis your thoughts. Well, first of all, I am extremely proud. That finally we've elected someone to congress whose speaks out in such a powerful way on behalf of of black women on behalf of Palestinians on behalf of old people who are oppressed. Also quite afraid for her. We know that she has received many debts cigarettes, and we know that the much of the attention that is focused on her as an individual is meant to also focus on all of us who are trying to speak out against the current policies of the of the US government, and particularly the policies on Israel. We experienced the assassination of another elected official and the American hemisphere, muddy and Franco and Brazil a little more than a year ago. And it pains me to Rio councilmember major LGBTQ activist. Absolutely, absolutely. And she received threats in and was targeted and the same way that Ilan Omar is being targeted today. So I it looks like of the people involved with her killing he's been accused of that has relationship with the Bolsonaro family. The current. Police officers. So we know that the government was directly involved and this attempt to eliminate. Franco, fortunately. There is a vast movement and Brazil. Her memory is being defended and the black women's movement and Brazil has only grown in the aftermath of her assassination. It is up to us to prevent a similar set of circumstances from unfolding here in the United States and the fending Ilan Oman. I have to really think Bob rans be who's done such an amazing job helping to organize this event with the movement for black lives and Barbara mentioned earlier that she participated in the defense of Anita hill. Black women defense about social was one of the main organizes of that massive movement back in nineteen Ninety-one testified against then Menino supreme court Justice Clarence Thomas. It's been very interesting to see the changing landscape political. Ideological landscape when it comes to Israel. The current edition of Newsweek has a full picture of Ilhan, Omar. And the headline is Ilhan, Omar, the Democrats and Israel and the article by David broder is looking at the breaking of the consensus, particularly within the Democratic Party around support for eight pack, the American Israel Public affairs committee. You look at the APEC meeting that just took place among those who didn't attend were one after another democratic presidential candidate Senator Bernie Sanders. Wasn't there? Senator comma harassed wasn't there. Senator Elizabeth Warren wasn't there. Better a rock. Wasn't there? Hooley uncast wasn't there. Washington. Governor Jay Inslee. Wasn't there? South bend, Indiana, mayor Buddha. Judge wasn't there that Aurora recently called Netanyahu racist? Can you talk about this breaking of the consensus you then have? Have an event that's taking place university of Massachusetts. Amherst. That's getting tremendous pushback that has people like. Marc Lamont hill going as well as Linda sore. Dave Zion Ren and jolly of the media education foundation, you have number of groups protesting this. But you also have them pushing back in the university says standing up for the right of this gathering to speak about Palestine that's going to be taking place may fourth the Saturday. So there is a breaking of consensus Ilhan, Omar is not out there alone that she is the lightning rod for all of this. It's so important. I mean, I think there's a number of variables Angela's leadership and visibility on this since the delegation in twenty eleven has been really remarkable. And I also just want to put in context, you know, the movement in Brazil in response to Molly Franko, but but here, you know, it's not just us. It's also Tingey win Mackerras and mosquito newer and some of the young leaders in the movement for black lives who in two thousand sixteen included in their vision for black lives, solidarity with Palestinian human rights, and caught a lot of flack for it and had funders move away from them because of it. So I think it's this generation of young black and latte necks activists. It's also young Jewish activists in Jewish voice for peace in if not now who are who are breaking the silence around Israel, and it's it's so important. So it's important that you'll Hawn is not alone and on that question and many others. You have Patrisse Cullors coming out today. At least you Garza the founders of the black lives matter move. -ment coming out for Ilhan, Omar that's happening today at noon. Yes. Absolutely. And a wide range of of organizations black women's blueprint is involved like you project, one hundred black women from all over the country are coming to say we stand with Bill Ilhan and that other women stand with us. So we're telling the Republicans to back off. We're also telling the Democrats to step up and have a much more vigorous defense of her. You know, if people are just watching the news, they would think that Omar only speaks about Israel. But in fact, she takes on many, many different issues and the forefront on those I wanna turn to congress member Ilhan, Omar questioning Trump's special envoy to Venezuela. Elliot Abrams on his record earlier this year, nineteen ninety one that you pleaded guilty to counts of withholding information from congress regarding your involvement in the Iran, cortra- affair. For which you were leader Barton by president George H W. I felt understand why members of this committee or the American people should find any testimony that you give today to be truthful. If I could respond to that wasn't a question. Venezuela. That was ill Hon, Omar questioning Trump's special on voi- to Venezuela Elliot Abrams, Elliot Abrams who was convicted of lying to congress appointed by President Trump to be the point person in Venezuela in a moment, we're going to be speaking more about Venezuela because as this broadcast got underway. One Widodo the head of the national assembly is currently attempting a coup against the Venezuelan president. We'll see how this unfolds throughout the day, but the significance of Omar on all of these fronts. Angela davis. Omar is is a major progressive voice on fun policy issues on issues of of racism on issues of of misogyny. And finally, we do have someone in congress who is not not afraid to stand up and fight back. And of course, I'm not at all attempting to be little of the legacy of people like, Bob Lee, and Maxine Waters who have been struggling with the Democrats in congress for for many years. But I think it's particularly important that she. Took the lead in challenging the position on Venezuela. The the apparent coup that is underway. Now supported of course, by the US government is an attempt to in crease the effect of the move towards the rate throughout the world bolts out, and in Brazil, of course, due date and the Philippines, Netanyahu, reelected and Israel. And and of course, one might. Be be critical of the current leadership Venezuela, but he was democratically elected. What would we say in this country if another power decided to support a coup in the US, even though we have a president? Well, we won't get into that. You get the point making Davis. You return to your hometown of Birmingham, Alabama in February originally planning visit to receive the Fred L. Shuttles worth human rights award from the Birmingham, civil rights institute. But the institute withdrew the award soon after the Birmingham holocaust education center sent a letter urging the reconsider honoring you do to a your support of the DS movement boycott divestment and sanctions movement, targeting the Israel government and Israeli institutions because of the Israel occupation facing swift and widespread outcry the. Then reversed its decision and reinstated the award but Angela Davis has yet to say if she will accept it. We followed you to Birmingham who was a massive welcome for you as a Birmingham daughter thousands of people came out. We also interviewed the head of the civil rights museum. Who said she deeply hopes that you will come back to receive the award. What happened? What have you decided? Well. First of all, it was really remarkable moment. And what impressed me so much was that especially black people, but also many white people, including Jewish people stood up, and and and in support of the idea that Palestinians also deserve to be recognized for their human rights. It is not possible to believe in human rights, but to exclude. Given population and. Yeah. I would like to accept Fred Ellsworth award. Because I deeply respect the legacy of shuttles. Where it's and and the Birmingham civil rights institute is a remarkable institution. There's some issues with the leadership that were expressed. Of course, in the fact that the award was we send it and three people on the board had to resign. Turn rescinded the reception. If that's word after they said, please accept the word. So do you plan to return have used? I don't see this as an individual decision. I'm taking mine leadership from on the ground organizers and Birmingham who recognize that that it's their responsibility to assist in the transformation of of of the institute. So I understand that there are meetings underway. Of course, the mayor's office funds at least half of the budget of the mayor was in the forefront of a challenging the reception of the ward there is an organization at hot group that came together Birmingham, truth and reconciliation committee. They are income. With the leadership of the civil have content tria tower the presence CEO of the Birmingham. Civil rights institute. Ever spoke have you since I haven't spoken to her directly. I'm waiting to see what the outcome of the meetings might be I will take the leadership from those who are doing the underground were some breaking news. And thank you both for being with us. We will cover the rally today in defensive Ilhan, Omar and bring that to our viewers listeners and readers tomorrow and democracy. Now, I wanna thank you. Angela Davis author professor activists professor emeritus at the university of California Santa Cruz, author of many books, including freedom as a constant struggle for Palestinian the foundations of movement, and Barbara rans be historian author and activist advisor to the movement for black lives one of the planners behind black women in defensive Ilhan, Omar we'll be. There at noon outside the capitol covering this event when we come back and breaking news as well. And up as leader Guido says a coup is underway and cut. We'll get the latest with us. Nothing. That you could feel. Wasn't. To me. Have you? To make it for you. Star. And cold bitter. Be two. If. If they see. And if no. Tree. Head. To roofing. That's how brew. I didn't have your love by Leonard Cohen, this is democracy. Now, I mainly Goodman. We're broadcasting from Washington DC in breaking news Venezuelan opposition later doses. A coup is underway in Dhaka's. Why appear this morning and video posted online standing mum heavily armed soldiers. Proclaiming. He is quote starting the final phase of operation. Liberty unquote. Why appeared alongside formerly jailed opposition leader Leopoldo Lopez who said he'd been freed by military. Officers loyal to the opposition. Lopez called on Venezuelans to rise up against the government of nNcholas Maduro. What is happening in the capital today? All Venezuelans who want freedom should come here. Disrupt. Order. Join encourage our soldiers. Join our people. Good morning Venezuela. Let's do this together writers reports a witness later saw Venezuelan security forces fire tear-gas directly at WaWa Doan around seventy arm men in military uniform where they'd gathered near an air force base. And cacus the coups announcement was welcomed by the president of the European parliament who called it a quote historic day for the return of democracy and freedom to Venezuela Colombia's right wing, president Vandeweghe tweeted, we call the military and the people of his Walea to place themselves on the right side of history. Rejecting Madurai does dictatorship the coup also has a parent backing of the Trump administration many lawmakers, including Republican Senator Marco Rubio, Florida who tweeted after years of suffering freedom is waiting for people. Venezuela, do not let them take this opportunity from you. Now is the moment to take to the streets in support of your. Legitimate constitutional government do not allow this moment to slip away. It may not come again, unquote, Venezuela's socialist party leader called on government. Supporters to mass at the presidential palace to defend President Nicolas Maduro against what he called a small uprising of traitorous soldiers backed by the US Venezuela's defense minister said the Madero government remains in control, and that military units reported nor normality at barracks and bases across as well Madurai ally Bolivia and president Evo Morales said in a statement, we forcefully condemned the attempted coup d'etat in Venezuela, which is being conducted by the right and backed by foreign interests. Morales said we're joined right now by Eva gallon jer. She is an attorney and author who served as an advisor to the former Venezuelan president who Chavez her new book is called confidante day of tyrants, the American women trusted by the US is biggest enemies. We thank you so much for joining us. What is it that you understand is taking place right now? Well, there's been obviously lead up to this situation for a couple of months now several months really where the opposition led by one Widodo, you know, has essentially declared themselves in charge of the country. Even though they haven't had charge of the country. Nncholas Maduro remains in power, and everyone's been sort of waiting to see what exactly is going to happen next and Guido had been calling for big marches in the streets. Tomorrow on may first, which is also international workers day in day celebration, usually in Venezuelan commemoration big marches in the street that had been announced publicly this is similar to what lace actually in February when there was humanitarian aid posted at the border from the United States at the border with Colombia. And even though the announcement had been made that aid would be entering the country on a certain day. It actually the operation began the day before it seems as though you know there. They're trying to get one foot ahead. But presently, I think some of the major developments would be it appears although it's unclear what the numbers are that some military higher ranking now sided with Widodo and the opposition. And that lamp holder Lopez has been freed from his house arrest, which of course, is major because he's one of the biggest figures of the far right opposition. He can certainly garner. The mass is more. So even than Widodo has done, and this was unexpected for many who were waiting until tomorrow to take to the streets. So I think we're seeing a trickle out of fact in the streets right now in Caracas. And of course, we haven't yet heard at least as of this moment from nNcholas Maduro. We've heard from several is other avenues for all Ellison programs on the. Eva Garlan jer Venezuela. American journalist again who served as legal adviser to former Venezuelan president Ugo job as the latest news. We have President Trump's been briefed on events in Venezuela. Where the army says it's confronting a group of military traitors. If you expend further on the role of the United States of Elliot Abrams, John Bolton, the secretary of state pump peyot and the vice president Pence who from the beginning of the reelection of nNcholas Maduro have been congratulated one Guido as the legitimate president of Venezuela, though, he wasn't elected president. And interestingly known only FOX was watching MSNBC, and when why does wife came to Washington and met with Trump? They're lower third red first lady of Venezuela. There's been this sort of doubled going on where the US has recognized why doa as legitimate so called the president of Venezuela. But he's not the president of Venezuela. He's not in power any of the institutions at least as up till today. We don't know what's going to happen right now. There's no question that why do the opposition would not have gotten to the point where they are today without eat directives. Listen and very aggressive backing of the competent vision. And of course, Trump has made clear as have all his adviser military options on the table. It's curious that just recently reports came out just in the past few hours that Eric prints or owner of a black personality companies have offered mercenaries to go to Venezuela that may have already happened. Sometimes the news gets out after the fact, so you know, I think that it's absolutely clear that the opposition has been propped up by the United States the US has played an ongoing aggressive role. I've been denouncing it now for over. Fifteen years in trying to undermine I the travelers government now Medeiros administration, and certainly there are many in Venezuela who would hope for change in their country. They don't wanna US-backed regime in place. They don't want for right imposed regime that that answers to poor an interest, which is what we're seeing take place in the country. And I do believe it's a very dangerous situation in Venezuela. Other be violent palm flips ahead, and that without this explicit backing of the United States that we wouldn't be seeing the level of chaos. It's taking place in the country today as well as the sanctions that have been imposed that have exacerbated Venezuela's humanitarian crisis and the difficulties that a majority of Venice Whelan's are facing on an economic level in the country. Eva Gandara wanna thank you very much for being with us Venezuelan American journalists who served as legal adviser to former Venezuelan president to China's is we turn right now to our last segment funeral services held Monday and Sunday, California for Laurie K, a sixty year old Jewish congregation to shot dead Saturday in the latest attack by white supremacists. On a house of worship on Saturday morning men with this rifle entered the power synagogue opened fire during a service marking the last day of Passover police say the shooter fled the scene, but was arrested a short time later. Prosecutors are investigating the shooting as a hate crime. After the suspect published an anti semitic manifesto, online referencing recent massacres at the tree of life synagogue in Pittsburgh, six months ago, and the pair of mosques in Christchurch New Zealand where white supremacist killed fifty Muslim worshippers. The latest white nationalist killing comes after the department of homeland security disbanded its domestic terrorism in last year. Reassigning sat analyst other. That's DHS says the threat of homegrown extremism has been significantly reduced. But in a review of fifty murders committed by extremists in two thousand eighteen the Anti-Defamation League found forty nine came at the hand of right wing extremists. With white supremacy alone accounting for thirty nine of the murders to talk about the rise of white supremacist violence and the Trump administration's response were joined now by Darrell Johnson. Former senior analyst at the department of homeland security in two thousand nine Johnson authored a report warning about the increasing dangers of violent right wing extremism in the United States, sparking a political firestorm in the process under pressure from Republican lawmakers in popular talk show host EHS alternate -ly repudiated. Darrell Johnson's paper. His forthcoming book is titled hate land long hard, look at America's extremist hard. It'll be out in June Derryl Johnson, welcome to democracy. Now. It's great to have you with us in these last few minutes. Can you talk about this latest attack in the attack before that? At the both at the tree of life synagogue in. Pittsburgh the Sunday, tack at the synagogue this past weekend white supremacist violence looking at Charlottesville year ago, where President Trump said of the white supremacist clan marchers, they're fine. People on both sides will be this has become the new normal, and what people don't realize is between that Pittsburgh synagogue attack. And the one that we had this week in California. There were other arson attacks against other places of worship we had a moss that was arson in California allegedly by the same perpetrator that conducted the latest synagogue shooting. We had three black churches down in the south that were arsoned. So domestic terrorism is alive and well today, so talk about the fact that homeland security disbanded its counter terrorism unit dispend it last year, despite the fact that violent extremism. Mm-hmm. Violent attacks are up, and the vast majority of them are being committed by white supremacists. But the investigations of them by the department of homeland security the unit in charge Trump to spent. Yeah. And this isn't the first time. I mean, my unit was disbanded back in two thousand nine and they reconstituted it with few analysts between this latest disbanding. But it's not a very good sign that our government is getting rid of resources that could actually be helping state and local law enforcement combat. This problem. So the cutting the funds to the groups within the government that investigate white supremacists. Can you talk about what this means? What were these resources used for? Yeah. So we've had state and local anti-terrorism training funding pulled last year under Trump. This was the US has preeminent domestic terrorism training for state local law enforcement. It's no longer exists. We've had grant funding pulled from organizations that wanted to study the trends that we're seeing as well as conduct countering violent violent extremism efforts to try to pull people out of these movements and reform them and activate them back into society. We need all hands on deck. We need every resource to be devoted to combat this problem. And it doesn't seem like this administration's very committed to doing that Darrell Johnson, even before Trump came to power in the United States. You wrote a column for the New York Times for domesticate apply. The vigor. Strategy used for Muslim terror your piece began domestic terrorism as the national security threat whose name we dare not speak. What I'm referring to is a lot of these attacks. We hear in the media as well as our politicians and even police chiefs talk about how you know crazed gunman or it's a hate crime. These are terms to kind of disguise the fact that these are ideologically motivated attacks that fit the definition of terrorism. So why not call it what it is? Finally you. How has the threat of right wing violence change since you did the report in two thousand nine under President Obama that the right wing so fiercely attacked the government withdrew. Amy. I'm standing here today in disbelief that this threat is still ongoing ten years after I wrote that report warning of the rise of this threat. That's very disturbing. And the fact that our government at the national level hasn't even recognized this threat and call it terrorism as possible concern, do you think there would be a different response if it was a Muslim attacker at the tree of life, unless limitation Sunday go, which again, we know it isn't both were avowed white supremacists. Yeah. We clearly see there's a double standard when it comes to our policy makers when they call out terrorism in they pretty much apply it solely to the Muslim variety. Well, we're going to continue this conversation and posted online at democracy now dot org. Darrell Johnson former department of homeland security senior analyst has forthcoming book titled hate land, a long hard look at America's extremist heart will be out in June. When he is the owner and founder DT, analytics private consulting form also author of right wing resurgence. How a domestic terrorist threat is being ignored. And that does it for today's broadcast. We'll be bringing the latest on Venezuela throughout the day democracy now dot org an attempted coup underway and we'll be covering the ill hunt. Full Mark defense rally today in Washington DC just outside the capitol. I may need Goodman. Thanks so much for joining.
The Threat of White Nationalist Terrorism
"Welcome to words matter with katie barlow and joe lockhart welcome to words matter. I'm katie barlow. Our goal is to promote objective reality as a wise man once said everyone is entitled bill to their own opinion not their own facts words have power and words have consequences joe last week. You sat down with darrelle johnson the former senior domestic terrorism analyst at the department of homeland security and the a._t._f. Johnson wrote a two thousand ninety eight just report on right wing extremism that predicted a lot of what is happening today now. Usually we do what else is on your mind at the end of the show but given given all of the issues involved last week. We wanted to talk about gun control at the top so joe twenty years ago. You were the white house press secretary during columbine in april twentieth nineteen ninety nine and sadly nothing has really changed since then talk about gun control from a political perspective where where is the debate politically yeah well. You're you're right to mention columbine. I was the president's press secretary then i went and to the oval office and let him know that the shooting had happened and <hes> then traveled with about two littleton colorado <hes> to visit with the community the school the families the president went family to family talk to every single family as long as they wanted to talk <hes> we were there for hours and as we walked out of there i think we all had a common sense of resolve aw that we were gonna fix this problem <hes> and we worked at it and used every amount of political capital. We had and we just couldn't move the ball. The <hes> entrenched interests in whether it's the n._r._a. The gun manufacturers the republican party stood against making any change doing anything to make the country safer and <hes> we had another moment <hes> during president obama's presidency a win newtown connecticut where where you know young children were killed. <hes> it just the worst thing that i think any of us have ever seen and again. There was resolved. President obama put put everything on the line and again. Nothing happened <hes> parkland florida you name it. <hes> virginia tech nothing happens and my prediction is one of the reasons says we're gonna focus today not on gun control but on domestic in white nationalist terrorism his because nothing is going to happen again so whether it's columbine newtown parkland dayton el paso this has been going on for twenty years. We hear a lot of i thought's and prayers we hear a lot of we're going to get something done this time twenty years on. I don't expect anything to change and i have to tell you <hes> if you'd asked me walking out of columbine high school twenty years ago. Would we be here today. I would have said you're crazy that the country knows oh so we've got to do something about it but the entrenched interests <hes> continue to win and i don't see that changing even near twenty years on yeah i agree i i was eleven years old at the time and the daughter of to public school teachers and the conversation around the kitchen table and and the teacher conference room table bowl which i was privy to at the time just because i had two of them in my household was about how we treated students in the classroom. They blamed aimed video games. The matrix was popular at the time and so was you know kind of goth clothing for making trenchcoats cool and violence attractive. There are a lot of things as we blamed but they also knew that there was a gun problem at the time and i'm curious what the conversation was like at the white house during those months afterward afterward and if the conversation was initially about video games and afford just recycling the same exact talking points twenty years later that we saw on on fox news this past weekend that video games are to blame here and solving that and more prayer in school will help solve the entire issue. I think video games have been an issue for the last twenty years. They are not central to the gun control issue. There's no science that shows there's a causal relationship affect their science and scientific studies show that there is no causal relationship between violent video games and those who commit mass murder and and there is increasing evidence that the real threat the growing threat in this country over the last decade has been white nationalist terrorism domestic terrorism. There is all sorts of evidence of that and that's something we need to focus on right. These really are two distinct issues so let's listen to your your interview with domestic terrorism expert darrell johnson our guest today is darrel johnson a former senior domestic terrorism some analysts at the department of homeland security and the bureau of alcohol tobacco and firearms back in two thousand nine. He wrote a v._h._s. report on right wing extremism that was widely circulated in both the law enforcement community and the press darrell johnson. Welcome to words manner thank you. I tell me a little bit about the experience that you brought to the table to be an expert on a domestic right wing terrorism yes of my interest in this. This topic actually goes all the way back when i was fifteen years old i remember reading about a standoff between some white supremacists and the f. b. I. down in arkansas on a remote mountain region on the shores of a lake and this group was called the covenant sword arm of the lord and i was just curious as a young man y a church <hes> would basically take people from their jobs and move out to this remote area cut off ties to family members and await the second coming of jesus and prepare for armageddon and <hes> that just kind of something i was interested in and as i grew older <hes> and went to college and majored in criminal justice i did papers on these types of groups and later turned that into federal career <hes> so i started out a ah the army counterintelligence center at fort meade and <hes> was studying terrorism over in asia and also latin america and right after the oklahoma city bombing <hes> they need someone to help with the force protection effort here in the continental united states so that's when i started my career looking at these types types of groups and <hes> that eventually led me to the bureau of alcohol tobacco and firearms where i really gained my expertise supporting agents in the field and their investigations and later later win over the homeland security department to head a team of analysts we hear a lot about <hes> all of the work all of the money all the personnel that goes into fighting islamic terrorism terrorism that originates outside the united states. Can you compare that investment to what we do. Domestically yes so new in comparison those analysts that look at domestic terrorism can be measured in the dozens <hes> throughout the federal government where we've got hundreds of analysts us looking at <hes> overseas threats in the intelligence community where i worked for a number of years <hes> we've got entire agencies that have counter-terrorism offices his <hes> with hundreds of people looking at foreign threats. I'm talking about the c._i._a. N._s._a. The military services <hes> even the f._b._i. <hes> but here domestically <hes> the only agency that really has fulltime resources devoted to this topic is the f._b._i. I let a very small team of analysts at homeland security ready for about six years looking at this topic but my unit was shut down in the aftermath of the report that i wrote no nine so i'll come to that in a minute but is is it fair to say that we have chronically under invested in domestic terrorism over the last couple of decades that is a fact and that's something that i've been trying to raise as awareness in the media about so. Let's go to your report. You write a report for d h s what prompted you to write the report. What did it say and what was the reaction. Yes so two years earlier in two thousand seven <hes>. I received a call from the u._s. Capitol police tipping us off that <hes> an african american can senator from illinois barack obama was considering running for president and they wanted our unit <hes> to basically monitor the internet chatter from extremists and to see if there is any threats directed to barack obama so after about a month or two after he had announced his <hes> running for president. We didn't really see any threats. It was only when he won the democratic nomination that the threat started rolling in and we started handing that information off to both the secret service as well as the capitol police right after we. We received that requests for information. I pulled my analyst together and ask them <hes>. You know what if what if barack obama the first african american <hes> <hes> gets elected to the presidency. What is that going to do to the threat landscape in this country because overwhelmingly since nine eleven are u._s. Counterterrorism efforts have been looking at both al qaeda overseas coming into the united states as well as those radicalizing within the united states who are muslim or sympathize with al qaeda <hes> and we all agree that <hes> these white supremacists and anti-government groups would get very agitated an active <hes> an african-american became the president at the white house so that's when we started collecting information <hes> pulling sources from the world wide web state local law enforcement reporting federal reporting being non-government organisations civil rights organizations and we just started collecting <hes> any and all information related to <hes> threats <hes> because has of having a black president to other things that factored into the report was the downturn in the economy that we had an overweight and how that served as kind of a fertile ground to recruit more people into anti-government groups and we also had returning veterans coming back from the wars in afghanistan and iraq who we were concerned about being targeted for recruitment <unk> by these groups so that's kind of the genesis of how the report was put together put together over an eighteen month period <hes> went through twenty-three rewrites <hes> coordinated with multiple agencies and we put it out. We brief napolitano <hes> about couple of days before it was released and everybody thought it was a great report now. How napolitano is janet napolitano. Who's the head of d h s at the time before against the reaction i wanna have you looked back a little bit. According to the report and some subsequent testimony you gave to congress you noticed an uptick in domestic groups activity <hes> terrorist oh groups extremist groups not just because of obama by because of a democratic president you saw something during the clinton administration game we had oklahoma city so was is your concern that they the extremist groups were both anti african american but anti liberal democrats yes so looking at this issue over the past four decades <hes> i've seen cycles when we have democrats and power typically the far right gets is more active and agitated because they're fearful of gun legislation being passed or they're fearful of the democrats expanding rights to minority groups favoring favoring immigration things like that typically during republican administrations these right wing extremist groups decrease their activities and we see more of the far left getting active and agitated because they're fearful of the republicans deregulating various industries that are polluting the environment and also giving tax breaks to the rich so that's kind of the cycles that i've seen over the past forty years and of course this current administration bucks the trend of these cycles michaels. We've got these right. Wing groups still continuing to operate a heightened level under a republican administration will come to that because i think that's a really interesting point but tell me about <hes> the report went went through twenty three rewrites interagency went to janet napolitano. What happened to the report yeah so we release it a few days. After briefing the secretary of homeland land security and <hes> we were very pleased with the results we thought we done a good job at warning <hes> state local law enforcement of this <hes> anticipated paid change and the threat landscape <hes> so that they could have some <hes> ability to kind of prepare and develop policies and devote resources and money to combat the problem and to my surprise <hes> the report was leaked immediately and the next thing i know coming into the office <hes> the following week utter chaos us had broken out in the office because we were being inundated with phone calls from concerned citizens thinking that we were pro- <hes> spying conservatives <hes> we had congressman calling being <hes> demanding to know the sourcing that was involved in creating the report and it was all over the conservative media as well as mainstream media <hes> but the conservative the media tended to take a more negative approach to the story <hes> saying that <hes> we were spying on conservatives that we were <hes> demonizing and painting. Can you know conservatives as being potential terrorists military vets felt like they were slander because we had mentioned that possibility than being recruited <hes> and so it turned into to this big political firestorm which you know. I never anticipated basically what you're saying. Is you ran into dc politics with the benefit of having some time reflect on it. Do you have any further understanding of why <hes> conservatives and republicans were more interested in the politics of this than the substance yes very unfortunate that the warning and message got lost in all this <hes> political mudslinging <hes> but looking back on in it <hes> there were a couple of things that i think fed into this republican backlash to the report. <hes> the first thing was <hes> unbeknownst to me. A new movement within the republican party called the tea party had formed and we're holding protests throughout the country around the same time this <hes> report was disseminated. <hes> the second thing the republicans were coming off some tough losses in the two thousand eight election not only did they lose the white house <hes> but they also lot lost a lot of seats in congress and the the senate and the house so i think they were just kind of looking for anything that they could use to try to drum up. New base of support in anticipation is a patient of the two thousand ten midterms and my report became that as an analyst not a political operative. You're surprised by this <hes>. I think i know from reading that you are a registered republican. You're not crazy. Liberal like a <hes> didn't the reaction of two thousand nine to bury the report <hes> and criticized the report <hes> in some ways set us up for where we are now and in some ways make the country west safe. That's correct <hes> because my report was politicized. Not only was the warning and message lost but created a chilling effect throughout the law enforcement and intelligence communities you know in in my office <hes> not only did we get all this scrutiny from both the public in congress <hes> but people few people lost their jobs. <hes> a group of analysts were retaliated against people inside the intelligence and law enforcement communities saw this happen and they're like well. This could happen to darrell. Who's got all this training in in in in analytical skills this could certainly happen to to me and so the topic of domestic terrorism is already a political minefield because we're talking talking about extremist movements that focused on very divisive issues here in america like gun rights and immigration and abortion rights and other things so this is kind of exacerbated aspirated the situation in and made people even less <hes> willing to follow this topic and my monitor it properly and so here we are ten years later. If people would have taken my report seriously we would have devoted more money and resources to the problem we would have mature not only intelligence but law enforcement <hes> programs and countering bovine extremism programs that could have stemmed this threat somewhat. That must be personally very disappointing for you. Yes frustrating disappointing in really really sad. <hes> because lives have been lost. This problem has just grown year after year month after month and the body counts are getting larger with each attack not too long ago there was a time when we would have to three or four people killed <hes> now. We're up to twenty two in el paso taking it away from politics for a second what drives these people. <hes> you know i think both your report and even more your testimony before congress in two thousand twelve got into some of the root causes i. I was hoping you could share them with our listeners. Yes so we identified. A number of root causes in the two thousand nine report. One was the unprecedented election of having an african african american elected to president. This is like the white supremacists <hes> worst nightmare come true <hes> i remember as a teenager going into us bookstores and and seeing joke books that had racist jokes and things of this nature talk about to win a black occupies the white house then you'll know that america has descended into a crap hole in that it'd be at its lowest point so this is what these big gets in hate groups <hes> talk about chatter of course the economic downturn <hes> <hes> created fertile ground for anti-government groups <hes> such a sovereign citizens that exploit people who are financially desperate try to feed them a bunch of conspiracy theories theories and the different <hes> things about why the economy collapsed and how they can use these pseudo legal maneuvers to get out from under their credit debts. Let's and then of course having a democrat empower again agitates some of the anti-government tights because they're fearful of gun legislation and you know fringe men on their second second amendment rights but there's a whole host of things that play into these <hes> cycles. Those are just a few i notice in some of your writings that free trade is one the most difficult issues to really understand the details of but it's a driver of right wing extremism some ways yeah four outsourcing of jobs jobs unemployment <hes> when people i guess aren't focused on their livelihood <hes> their mind tends to wander. I guess there's that old phrase than in an idle mind becomes the devil's workshop <hes> certainly applies to these <hes> extremists and how they go about marketing their message so let's fast forward to the current situation relation i i'm interested in the information flow to these right wing extremist groups to domestic terrorists. Let me start with the media fox fox news info wars <hes> how important are they <hes> in providing the the content in the fuel to to the hate and and to <hes> eventually the <hes> the terror axa. We've seen yes so whenever media organizations <hes> take a strong stance against certain issues and start raising the rhetoric on these types of issues. You're always risking pushing those on the outer fringes ges <hes> who are on the brink of acting off the edge to the point where they conduct acts of violence so words do matter <hes> from our politicians from the media <hes> and then you have even more extreme <hes> forms of media like alex jones info wars and shortwave radio programs that get people spun spun up and more agitated with the rhetoric and the tone that they take. It's one thing to watch fox news and if you're wack may bang my head against the wall and say it's making people crazy but it sounds like you're saying that this actually does help mobilise these groups and mobilize them in a way that they take action. Yes so we saw <hes> <hes> couple of incidents in the past year. Two were extremists were mobilized into taking a stand against a government. I'm referring to the bundy ranch standoff off and bunkerville nevada as well as the mao here wildlife refuge takeover the way the media conservative media kind of handled that as they try to talk about these people people being patriotic and doing the right thing and taking a stand against the government but in reality you're emboldened these people by reporting the news in that way <hes> these people all pointed guns at federal law enforcement officers <hes> they took over a federal facility for over a month destroyed some of the federal facility so rather rather than painting these groups as patriotic and standing up to the government. They need to be called out for what they are. They're radicals their extreme <hes> some of them turn into terrorist. I <hes> these ideologies <hes> that these groups belong to <hes> make calls for violence and provide the targets for these radicals to go after one of of the more interesting things in reading your work is the difficulty in combating domestic terrorism is not the traditional terrorist cells that can be disrupted upped but you know what you call the lone wolf problem. Can you talk a little bit about that. Yes so back in the eighties. These terrorist groups here in america were successfully infiltrated by law enforcement and a lot of their activities in groups were disrupted and people arrested <hes> so in lieu of that <hes> <hes> the domestic extremists have adopted this leaderless resistance strategy. It's actually based on an essay written by prominent white supremacists who was a vietnam veteran taran who studied the art of warfare wrote the essay called leaderless resistance which calls for people to self train to identify targets gets within your community not to talk about what your plans are not affiliate with groups because there's the risk of informants and agent provocateurs tour's within the groups themselves and so you operate and stealth in secret and you secretly plan and plot and prepare for your attack <hes> so this as you can imagine poses a unique problem for law enforcement because it's very difficult to identify and prevent these people from in carrying out their attacks on the other hand <hes> because you don't have a professional training camp or some professional bombmaker teaching the bombmaking skills a lot a lot of these terrorists capabilities are less sophisticated so you don't get the sensational type of tax that you would see from an isis or al qaeda cell so that's it's kind of how they operate. Those are the tactics that they use. They do it deliberately so that they could avoid law enforcement detection so it's clear from the way your report was buried and your your congressional testimony in the lack of action <hes> that we're not doing enough if we made you king for a day <hes> what do we need to do. What what steps does our government government needs to take. I take this threat seriously and then to combat it. There's so much that we can be doing. We're so far behind the curve <hes> trying to catch up with this threat. That's had ten years to grow and into fester <hes> it all starts with recognizing <hes> these acts of violence as terrorism and with that comes the ability to start tracking it and gathering statistics and then you can gauge whether it's growing or whether it's <hes> decreasing and at that point <hes> if you decide that it's increasing and getting worse we can devote resources and money towards the problem <hes> as far as where route focused. My efforts is going to be multifaceted from the federal level you need more agents and analysts devoted to investigating and assessing this threat <hes> <hes> are countering violent extremism program that we have in place currently is exclusively focused on countering radical islamic extremists <hes> that program needs to be the expanded to have an equal balance between both non-islamic and islamic extremists <hes> training these to be improved and increased for for our state and local law enforcement officers analysts that are on the front lines of dealing with these extremist groups from the community level. <hes> people need to get involved. <hes> <hes> they've got friends family members or relatives that are embracing these extremist beliefs <hes> rather than isolate them and ostracize them. We need to embrace race these people and bring them back into the mainstream society and give them a cause to live four politely challenge and humorously challenged some of these extremist beliefs jason you know try to rationally explain how their poisonous to the mind in that there is something that <hes> is not welcome in today's modern society so there's a lot the things we could do. It's got to be a top down approach as well as a bottom up approach so we're in reading your report from two thousand you anticipated the election of a republican publican donald trump in two thousand sixteen to tamp down a right wing extremism of it's not quite what happened known we can. Thank the heated political. Go rhetoric of the two thousand sixteen campaign for the continued rise in heightened activity of these groups <hes> this current administration needs to understand and that when you mainstream extremist ideas such as building border walls in banning muslims to travel the united states and mass deportation of immigrants grunts these were extremist ideas that i read about ten or fifteen years ago on white nationalist websites <hes> now they're being endorsed as policy by administration astray shen also retweeting messages from conspiracy sites about muslims an extremist sites again. It's giving a green light to these extremists is that they have somebody in the presidency that tacitly supports their belief system and their movements and turning a blind eye to what they're doing and and so they're looking at that as a license to misbehave and to conduct acts of violence when i was reading your report and you talked about the root causes beyond beyond just hatred of change patriot of african americans and you started digging into economic anxiety to <hes> immigration anti free trade agreements to me read like the trump campaign seemed to be built <hes> and the foundation of it was this white nationalist this philosophy that you had studied in the nineties and through two thousand twelve at least yeah definitely catered to the extremist message and created a support base you recently told a columnist for the new york times that <hes> what surprised you with trump <hes> or with a republican winning was it it increased and you talked about what trump has done is added fuel to the fire. How's he done that. He does that through <hes> demonizing using and dehumanizing his opponents. Whether it's the democrats <hes> whether it's the media calling it fake news weather. It's immigrants coming into the country calling them invaders or an invasion likening people to rodents calling third world countries crap whole countries. This is all the tone in rhetoric of bigotry and hatred <hes> kinda stirs up the radicals <hes> to the point where they start looking at these people as targets you said mainstreaming ideas i think about it <hes> along the same lines as normalizing <hes> right wing extremist views <hes> and giving a green light to domestic terrorists to move ahead where they didn't feel like they had that before i i think of it from a political point of view but you have the expertise. Do you think that president trump has normalized this behavior and has that been a trigger for for some of these domestic attacks. Yes he's allowed this environment to persist as well as become more pervasive when he uses that rhetoric that i've talked about <hes> when we had charlottesville and other attacks he tries to minimize the threat he tries to s- <hes> say that the far or left and the far-right pose an equal thread or try to say that there's good people in these rallies and protests again. These are all things that it kind of <hes> emboldened these extremists and give them a permissive environment to operate. I wanna read something that you wrote in your congressional testimony in two thousand in twelve <hes> and then just pose a question to you you wrote i often describe extremist ideology and by law enforcement training as a poison absorbed into a person's person's mind extremist ideology uses deception half truths and blatantly false and often over simplistic explanations to solve complex national issues or personal problems. Extremist ideologies are quick to blame others for these problems often providing justification for violence wants and criminal activities scapegoats are also given people organizations and institutions providing a lengthy list of potential targets to avenge install grievances. I read that and i thought it was one of the most profound and accurate descriptions of donald trump. I've ever read <hes> may be taking out the last the sentence. Do you see trump as someone who engages in the same type of blatant falsehoods have troops sort of self defense mechanisms mechanisms that seem to characterize many of these domestic terrorist groups. He's speaking their language. He's trying to take their ideas and implementable. Policies sees you know we've seen two recent examples of how trump's rhetoric inspired people to conduct acts of violence. The one shooter that we had adenola paso left a manifesto and used the very same language that our president used to describe immigrants as invaders as an invasion as rodents <hes> <hes> we also had the serial bomber last year right before the election that serial bomber targeted all of those trump opponents the fake news that trump says <hes> the democrats <hes> that trump opposes so by merely dehumanizing these people <hes> there's certain <hes> radicals out there that may be mentally unstable that may just be waiting for something to to serve as a catalyst to egg them on to fall through with their plans. <hes> those two recent examples right there were words from the president actually inspired people to target the opponents of the presidency. Give give me your worst case scenario over the next couple of years assuming trump continues in his presidency of this issue of this problem yeah i think i think that we're at a point now where these groups are going to continue to operate at a heightened level even if trump's not reelected <hes> because we've we've neglected this topic. We haven't devoted any resources or money to really combat it. It's head ten years to grow if we decided today to devote all the money resources is to vote at this problem. It's still going to take many years for us to slow the momentum down and we're also at across point in our country where the demographics are changing changing the very fact and that's what's pushing a lot of these <hes> white supremacists and other extremists over the edge and wanting to commit acts of violence is because they see america's this color is changing from white brown and <hes> they don't like that and they want to do something about it so unfortunately i don't have a very optimistic view of the next few years you. That's the worst case. Give me some sense of hope here that we can address this problem well. The only hope that i see at this point is we finally have government officials including the president calling this as terrorism <hes> whether or not he continues to have that same aimed view or whether he truly believes that at least that's the very first step is to try to recognize and identify the problem <hes> so that is the only thing i doc at hope. <hes> cling onto at this point is being hopeful <hes> so hopefully <hes> these recent attacks <hes> the fact that they're getting worse than that more more more people being and killed and injured <hes> that our government officials legislators law enforcement and the executive branch will finally wake up and identify this problem and do what's necessary aid to combat it. I have no doubt that when and if president trump listens to this podcast <hes> his tweet wilt call you things like nasty the and loser but <hes> anyone who recognizes that words matter on this podcast we love and certainly listening to you. I think most of the country would disagree with the president would call you a patriot <hes> and we deeply appreciate the work you've done <hes> it's tragic that much of it has been ignored nor for so long but as you said <hes> it is coming to the forefront i encourage you to continue to speak out and get people to pay attention to this is because the threat to america particularly listening to the f._b._i. Director recently <hes> the threat is inside this country and it's it's more dangerous than the threat outside. Thank you so much for joining us. We appreciate your insight and wisdom. Thank you so much. I really appreciate those kind words important interview joe. What surprised you the most what surprised me the most actually was this is a guy who's a registered republican this. This guy who at fifteen years old was <hes> reading up on criminal justice and wanted to be involved in the f._b._i. The a._t._f. <hes> not some you know crazy liberal and he drew a straight line between donald trump's rhetoric and the el paso <hes> mass mass murderer and he drew a straight line between republican resistance to taking on this issue <hes> and the fact that these groups jobs have been able to grow while the republicans forced us to look the other way <hes> again <hes> i think his work is invaluable that the end of all of these things. There's always a look back and i think we're going to be. We're going to see that there are there. There is blood on the hands of a lot the people in the conservative movement whether it be politicians media <hes> the president for ignoring this problem and ignoring it in a way and dismissing missing it while these groups were allowed to grow okay now back to regularly scheduled end of the episode. What's on your mind joe the first issue we he wanted to get your thoughts on this week is teleprompter trump versus twitter trump last week in the aftermath of the el paso in dayton shootings. President trump read a statement from teleprompter l. A. prompter in what some commentators said looked like a hostage video explain for us joe teleprompter trump versus twitter trump and why it matters well teleprompter tur- trump is when the president gets serious look on his face and actually reads the words on the teleprompter. That's not donald trump. We know it's not donald trump <hes> because each and every time within a few hours he's negated everything he said this time <hes> his speech was <hes> <hes> <hes> unity over racism and each and every time he's he's absolutely turned around and said something different now. If you want to know what the real donald trump thinks redes- tweets and watch him afterwards i watch him after he seen the press coverage when you look at the dayton and el paso trips there's part of it that the only way i can describe it as sickening teleprompter trump should be ignored. It doesn't mean anything <hes> the real. Donald trump is the nasty tacking narcissistic. It's all about me trump. It's all about the respect for him. <hes> that you see when he's not on teleprompter when he's speaking and in his tweets joe you actually just quoted from <hes> the new york times headline which said initially quote trump urges unity versus racism the new york times took a lot of heat for that headline headline and after some significant outrage on social media the times editors changed to quote a sailing hate but not guns what did you make of last week's headline gate as we called it and why is it important the new york times screwed up their headline bought into the trump's speech and and gave it <hes> what i'll call contextual credibility like he gave this speech and he said these things many times so of course that's what what he meant when in fact he's not said these things and the headline <hes> failed to capture the complexity of the situation and what happened in that room that morning and people were outraged and making the argument of cancel your subscription to the new york times i looked at that and i thought that's the wrong thing to do. I tend to agree with you joe. I my one question and this is one that i saw from. Some of our listeners on twitter is how else can you communicate indicate the message to editors at the new york times that the way that they handle certain stories or even president trump in particular <hes> headlines <hes> is not where it should be that there's room for improvement other than not renewing your subscription or canceling your subscription. Is there another effective way to communicate that message. We now have a way to express our outrage twitter social other social media platforms and i i think it it it forced the new york times to look at their headline and say did we get this right and i give them credit for <hes> making a change and recognizing that they made a mistake we know things about russia's interference with our elections about what's going going on in north korea what's going on in china that we wouldn't know without the new york times and canceling. Your subscription is doing exactly what donald trump rob and the republicans want you to do. They want you to know less. They want you to not believe what you see and read so i think it's absolutely wrong to cancel your subscription. The new york times is businesses lots of ways to send a message but to say i am going to get the new york times out of my life and stopped supporting it through subscription and i think as a little bit crazy and finally joe while all that was going on last week. President trump escalated his trade war with china the u._s. Treasury officially declared china a currency manipulator the first time it has done so since nineteen ninety four aside from the trade wars being easy to win. What did you make of trump's escalation of the trade war with china to state the obvious trade wars are not easy to win trade wars generally the <hes>. It's just agrees of how much you lose at least in american history. We've had disastrous trade wars <hes> going back over the last one hundred fifty years. I can't think of a trade war <hes> where we didn't suffer. It is just terrible economic policy. This is a really interesting case will this. We brought on ourselves. We started the trade war <hes> and now we've got to figure out a way to make sure that the u. s. china trade relationship does not deteriorate into a worldwide contagion that will lead to worldwide recession or even depression. <hes> larry summers immerse one of the best economic thinkers of our generation <hes> wrote last week that we are now heading towards a worldwide economic crisis because of the u._s. china china a trade war that trump started and he made the point that trump has started something that he has no concept of how to get himself out of so in doubling down around this week. He's made the likelihood of a worldwide economic crisis more likely. I'm not an economist but i do know politics six and i think if we look forward a year i think it's very likely this is going to be the number one or number a two issue in the campaign that the economy is slowing that people were paying higher prices and that the cause of all of this was donald trump you know <hes> donald trump's at forty one percent approval rating commission what his approval rating will be when the economy isn't strong so <hes> and people are feeling even more pain than they feel now so i think this is perhaps the issue that republicans wanted to run on today a year from now. I have a feeling we're going to be in a different place. We'll certainly come back a year from now and <hes> issue a report card on that projection action but i have a feeling you are probably right. I think that's all we've got for you this week joe. Thanks for joining us until next week. Thanks katie thank you for listening to words matter for more information on our show and hosts visit words matter media dot com please. He's rate and review words matter on apple podcasts and other podcast providers.
Buried Treasure: I told you so
"No, the department of homeland security report was sobering. And couldn't have been more. Controversial. It's title right wing, extremism, current economic and political climate fueling resurgence in radicalization and recruitment Britain by department counter-terrorism analysts the two thousand nine report warned of a number of disturbing trends, including a marked uptick in threats from white supremacists. And other violent anti-government group's feeding off the anger and resentment over the economic downturn and fears about illegal immigration, and especially troubling the messaging from these groups seem to be gaining traction among disgruntled military veterans a group well trained in the use of firearms and combat the homeland security report was labeled for official use only and was not intended for public consumption. But in the spring of two thousand nine after its author shared it with state and local law enforcement officials its contents were leaked and there was an uproar Republicans in congress expressed out. Outrage that the department was targeting American citizens who as then house minority leader John bainer, put it disagree with the direction. Washington. Democrats are taking our nation President Obama's homeland security secretary Janet Napolitano withdrew the report and even apologized for it. But today after a series of terrorist attacks and plots by white nationalists, including the February fifteenth arrest of a Coast Guard Lieutenant who is stockpiling weapons and planning to start a race war that homeland security report is looking more prophetic than ever. We'll talk to Darryl Johnson, the author of that two thousand nine report on this episode of buried treasure. Because people have gotta know whether or not their president's across. Well, I'm not a crop. I told the American people I did not create arms hostile my heart. And my best intentions still tell me that's true. But the facts and the evidence tell me it is not I did not have sexual relations with that one. There will be no lies. We will honor the American people with the truth and nothing else. I'm Michael Isikoff. Chief investigative correspondent for Yahoo news. And I'm Dan Kleinman editor in chief of Yahoo news. You know, I remember that two thousand nine report. It was kind of a mini controversy at the time. It got some attention, and then sort of went away, but man over the last couple of years Charlottesville, the tree life synagogue attack. And this coast guard guy who was working in coast guard headquarters and stockpiling weapons and ammunition while talking by self describing himself as a white nationalist and talking about attacks on people, you know, one of the things that people found on his computer investigators found was he wanted to have focused violence to establish a white homeland. I'm dreaming of a way to kill almost every last person on the earth. He wrote pretty chilling stuff. Wanted to hunt down Senator in ju- all fueled by just vicious antisemitism and race. White supremacy. And this is from the US attorney's filing the defendant intends to murder innocent civilians on a scale rarely seen in this country. So yeah, chilling stuff. What I remember from that night two thousand nine report, though, was kinda how pathetic the Obama administration dealt with it that Janet Napolitano was apologizing for the report why shouldn't have that report seeing the light of day. They know it was for official use only, but the idea that that kind of extremism that leads to violence isn't alternately about politics, whether it's right wing, extremism or left wing extremism politics. When is distorted like that has always led to violence, and that's a reality that people have to know about in this idea that well, you can't talk about where it comes from either. That's just it's crazy, and I just have to I can imagine at the time young White House. Aides freaking out because somehow this controversy. He was going to affect you know, their ability to get ObamaCare or some legislation passed and they talked about practicing triage. So they had to prioritize and it's something like this happened. You just have to, you know, make it go away. Well, remember, the political climate of the time Obama had just come into office, the conservative activists and the NRA were warning. Oh my God. You know, he's got this radical gun control agenda and Rahm Emanuel. The chief of staff at the time for Obama didn't want any talk about gun control because he thought it would interfere with the president's plans for getting the Affordable Care Act passed. And so he put the kabosh you remember holder. Eric Holder is the attorney general at that time said, well, we're going to do something about assault rifles. And then he got shut down by the White House. Stop talking about that guns or not are done was repeated what a Barack Obama has had. During the campaign during the campaign. Right. So then you put on top of this report from homeland security, which seemed to suggest that there was going to be a resurgence of militias, which were of course, very big in the nineteen nineties and it produced an uproar with monk Republicans in congress. And absolutely the Obama administration starting with Janet Napolitano were cravenly, you know, bowed and withdrew the report and even apologized for the thing is and we're going to talk to Darryl Johnson, the author of this report in a minute. But this wasn't just some like political professional it actually had an impact because the very like office in the department of homeland security that was analyzing and studying these issues, and they were kinda shut down. I mean, he lost. There was nobody doing this after this because the Obama administration department homeland security was so nervous about it. Right. And that was two thousand nine here. We are. Are in two thousand nineteen ten years later. And you know, we're seeing, you know, some really scary stuff from exactly the kind of groups and people that were being a dentist in that report. So let's talk to the author of that homeland security report Darrell Johnson right now. Dow Johnson thanks for joining us. Welcome mike. So there's so much to talk about here in the story of your report, which we've talked about before. But I just want to start out with this. Recent case of Christopher Hassen the Coast Guard Lieutenant working in coast guard headquarters and plotting acts of violence to establish a white homeland. What were your thoughts when you heard about this case thoughts mmediately went to his employment? US coastguard is actually a component of the department of homeland security, whereas, you know, used to work for six years. Wow. And taking a step back. You know, you wrote the report in two thousand nine right wing extremism morning that we were going to be seeing a surge in activity by white supremacists, Neo Nazis, and like minded groups. Thinks back to that point in time. What prompted you to write it what you were thinking about and how it was received when you began working on it. So the whole thing started actually thousand seven when we got a phone call from the US capitol police who had a question for us. They wanted us to monitor white supremacist websites once rock Obama was a Senator at the time from Illinois announced his candidacy for the president. We got debt tip. And when Obama went public with his situation to run for office of the president. We've monitored the white supremacy chat boards, and we didn't see any threatening activity. In fact, there wasn't even much chatter in the immediate aftermath of his announcement. So we closed that request out. But I went to my analysts and said, hey, rock Obama's that. African American running for president said what if he does when the two thousand eight election and becomes the president in all of us. Agreed that it would be out only an unprecedented. But it be recruitment tool or hate groups and particularly white Romasis. I mean, this is their worst nightmare. Come true. That was kinda Genesis of the report, and so all through two thousand eight we gathered monitored all the different public websites and gathered information on these groups started seeing a number of new groups forming rallies being held crease numbers coming out to the rallies. We also looked at storm front which was the largest new Nazi white supremacy gathering place on the internet and started seeing bare users starting to increase. So there was a bunch of things that kind of into that report. And then when Janet Napolitano was appointed homeland security secretary, he actually came to me with questions asking are we seeing a rise in these right wing extremist groups, and if so what's causing it. And what are we going to do about? Job at the time. I was the senior domestic terrorism analyst team lead, which was responsible for overseeing the work of five analysts. I didn't have any supervisory power like rating people's performances, but I provided input to their performances. Just for context here. There was nothing really all that new about this. Right wing, white supremacists. Extremism that has been a deep strain in our politics and culture for a long time that sometimes turned into violence. I mean, Mike, and I think both covered Ruby Ridge the Homa city with Timothy McVeigh. So, you know, at the time in two thousand seven, and then when Janet Napolitano came in did you think that you would doing anything new and extraordinary or controversial absolutely not? We were just doing our jobs. That's what I was hired to carry aim to me when I was working at ATF bureau, back haul tobacco, firearms, and explosives and recruited may direct hire thority to come over. And stand up a team of analysts to look at these types of issues, though, you know, the FBI been writing on it for years. This is somewhat knew because homeland security was new, but we had put out other reports generate the political controversy that this one did comes to you and ask you to take a look at this issue. I gather she was somewhat concern. Turned about it. Walk us through what happened after that? Yes. What I was actually quite excited when Janet Napolitano came to us and started asking these questions because the previous two secretaries, Michael Chertoff and Tom Ridge. They were merely interested in preventing the next nine eleven case. This is the first only security secretary that we had that actually had worked. He's types of issues in her home state of air. I was gonna say I actually was on my way back from Little Rock. I came here. This is you might remember. And I was in Saint Louis, and I got a call from my editor who said you need to go to Phoenix because there's a right-wing Melissa that's attempting to blow up the federal building there. And that was I think they were called the vipers. And I think that was Janet Napolitano's case in when she was US attorney. So she was familiar with these kinds of groups, right? She also supported the desiccation into Timothy McVeigh because one of his associates, Michael forty eight lived in Arizona. That's right. They had gone there. But we had been working on it before Napolitano even arrived that we had this report kind of in draft when she aimed to us with questions. And so my supervisors are like this report will provide the answers that she's seeking though myself levels of supervisors above me. The FBI had a whole entourage of people that came over. And we presented a joint desk side. Leafing with Janet Napolitano talking about a report that we had ready as well as answering questions that we have the first two questions. Are we seeing a rise in these groups and what's causing it? As with the report addressed in the last thing. What are we going to do about it will that was the FBI's job? And so they briefed basically what they were planning to do in light of the election in the economic downturn of oh eight. What steps was the FBI prepared to take. And what steps did you think the US government should be taking the I stood up? A program called vigilant eagle. I could talk a little bit about this because it's actually public knowledge, but that was a program that was looking at returning veterans back that were offering from post traumatic stress disorder, and who may have problems reacclimating into society may have mental health issues that aren't being properly addressed who made ET targeted for recruitment for these groups not that they would just actively going these groups on their own. But that these white supremacist groups target the military people because of military training, their leadership skills other things. And so they brief that they brief that they were going to be standing up a second domestic terrorism operations unit which was literally doubling the size of their headquarters. Analysts that would handle the cases at the FBI would work. That's. Basically with the their preparations were what they were doing. You know, you talked about disgruntled military veterans that was one of the subheads in your report who were vulnerable to recruitment from these groups you also talked about the role that illegal immigration was playing or at least concern about illegal immigration, just quoting from your report. The perception that illegal immigrants were taking away American jobs through their willingness to work at significantly lower wages was something that right wing extremists were making a lot of. So you put that all together and just sort of walk us through again. What happened I believe you shared it with state and local law enforcement officials. Right. So after we Napolitano and enter this report had gone, twenty three rewrites, different levels of editing. Anyways, we sent it out to state local law enforcement as kind of a warning that the threat landscape. Was changing has remember lotta these state Uson centers joint terrorism task forces since nine eleven were merely looking at issus of actually out Kedah at the time Porter's here in the United States and Muslims that are being radicalized or the United States. And so this is kind of a warning that we see a shift in the threat environment to white terrorism. Not just Muslim terrorists within read as of that report being issued. I was actually helping the boy scouts with a fundraiser. And I had the radio on heard the like, noon new cycle come up in their talking about this controversial homeland security intelligence report that was talking about the rise of white supremacy and anti government militias. And my report was on the news. I couldn't believe it. The way that you were hoping it would be in the news. It was in the news at all. But what is it that you think touched such a nerve what did change in our politics that that report would be received in the way? It was other Republicans were coming up a tough loss on the thousand eight election. They lost the presidency. But they also awesome seats in the house and Senate though, I think they were kind of -ceptable to looking for something anything that they could find a us against the new administration, the two things that guess people latched onto that was controversial. Besides the military that we brought up was the term right wing extremism. Republicans for whatever reason we were talking about conservative Republican than the other thing was we had a very vague definition buried in a footnote at octave out, these wide range of issues in groups that these right wing extremists used to bolster their movements. So people took that out of context and made it like we were spying on the tea party and services, which we weren't soon. What happened there's an uproar in congress. They start denouncing the homeland security for allowing this. And then Janet Napolitano who you had briefed about it. So presumably she knew everything about this report goes up to the hill apologizes. She says the wheels came off the wagon because the vetting process was not followed. The report is no longer out there and employees Senate out without authorization that was nothing but a cover up g initially defended the report, but once she saw the congressional act lash on the Republican side the pressure started to mount we started getting letters from congress. We started getting foia requests, we had Pat Robertson's seven hundred club. He asked all his followers to call the operation centered at homeland security said they flooded the lines and their clogged up he. Operations that are with these realis- complaints. So basically a Napolitano then backtrack. And there was a story that was made up at this rogue analysts had somehow bypass procedures and. That's right. Yours truly. It was Mary Ning for me. And my team to see this play out on the news knowing full well that we had followed for seizures. And that we'd had vetted. This thing would happen to you and your team after this initially stopped all of our work insult, all the trainings that we were providing to state local federal law enforcement, and they told us reduce gonna lay low for a few weeks a month or two, and then we'll reconstitute, you know, your program. Once the firestorm has died down. Then I realized that that was again, another cover story to basically ause us to let our guard down and extreme, you know, we're getting retaliated against by our supervisors getting letters of reprimand talking that we were poorly using portrayed craft and are all this. And it was crazy because we were kind of the elite group of people in that office who had seen numerous letters of recommendation and accolades from state and local law enforcement that we have. Ported myself I trained every ATF agent since nineteen ninety nine at their National Academy. We had another analyst that was training FBI agents in their academy on these groups, though, we were doing some pretty good things. The pressure that was being placed on Janet Napolitano that led her to cave and go up to the hill and apologize was solely coming from Capitol Hill. And from you know, some of these outside groups or was the pressure coming from within the administration. She getting pressure from the White House. I think there's a combination of both. But it was really the Republican pressure that congress put on her. I think at the time you may have had some political aspirations to do other things. I don't know about her. I think wanting to be attorney general. Yeah. Though that pretty much quell debt, you know, aspiration. So what happened to your unit? I mean, I remember there were concerns that it might be cut back or disbanded what happened. So after the retaliation days during the summer of nine the real truth came out when we did a restructuring, and they totally dissolved our unit and reassigned us to work other topics like protecting critical. Structure, and I'll Qaeda threats. Soom? Was there any body at the department of homeland security who took your place and was monitoring? These extremists hate groups. There wasn't and one by one each of the analyst that I had hired including myself by two thousand and most of us had left and that left one analyst who was still there that was or the original team. So after I went public with my story on say twenty eleven they kind of their Mon Asli had this one person that was still there. They reassigned him to the FBI work, these issues to say that they actually had somebody who was like a liaison capacity, and then they won't point. I wanna say twenty thirteen or so they hired to contractors to help. Then those people left so it's kind of in this half hazard one person two people now as down to none Daryl. You think an element of this whole episode in Wyatt played out the way, it did was because we as a society, and in our politics were still so focused on the Muslim threat in the wake of nine eleven that, you know, you're always fighting the last war, and no one really wanted to focus on other kinds of threats especially threats coming from, you know, white Americans. Yes, this threat that we were talking about these right wing extremists. They're primarily white Americans. Detracts from the message that are US government was to put forth this policy on what terrorism is and that is somebody that lives in a Middle East as a funny sounding name versus differently talks differently and aspires to this radical Islam as the only type of terrorism our government seems to recognize so as you look at what's move up into the current day as you look at the events over the last few years Charlottesville relief. You know, this coast guard guy and lots of others. What goes through your mind? I mean, does this this rise vindicates the very threat that you were warning about I don't get any status faction and knowing that I was right? But you're after you're after that report, you see that we were telling the truth that I was doing my job at the point when I wrote that report I'd had Ecksteen years of intelligence experience looking at these types of groups, though, you know, I was just trying to do my job. And the fact that it fell on deaf ears and got distracted and minimized and -flective the said the every time I hear on the news that there's been another attack year after year after year more people dying and to end on a dark note. But to follow up on Mike's question. How grave do you think this threat is at this particular moment, it seems in this case of the Coast Guard Lieutenant Hassen I mean if he'd been able to pull off what he wanted to pull off. Huge numbers of people would have been killed. And we're just seeing so many of these episodes, how do you assess the level of the threat, and how worried should Americans be I worked to report a two thousand nine I was forecasting maybe four to eight year cycle. We are in your Ken. I never believed that this would last this long, and the fact that they continue to operate at a heightened state, and that we need to have these attacks very concerning. The fact that the government really hasn't done much of anything combat it and also disheartening. Donald Trump's rhetoric the way he's responded to some of these kinds of groups and their philosophies has had an effect on all of this. The first time under a Republican administration that we continue to see these right wing groups thrive ethically. During Republican administrations we see them their activities decrease because they're not concerned about unless Latian being passed. They're not concerned about minority rights being expanded. So typically during these Republican administration, we see these activities of these far right groups, actually decrease. This is the first time we've seen it stay at the same level as it was under the Democrats seems to be getting worse. Some respected is because the two thousand sixteen election campaign was very vicious. There was a lot of mean-spirited things that were said took the hostility to a new level. And I think it's given the green light for these people to continue to do what they're doing. We see. Hey crimes, increasing the level of bigotry in this country. Is hasn't been this bad and decades? And I think it is starts at the top. It starts with the tenor the tone in the messaging that comes out from these political campaigns correctly that there is nobody the department of homeland security who's now monitoring these groups in the way, you were back in two thousand nine there is nobody there. Oh. That seems pretty concerning in and of itself. Dow Johnson, thanks for reliving. What was obviously a painful experience for you. But highly relevant to our current situation. Absolutely sobering stuff. But let's hope that we all can draw some lessons from from your experience. Thank you for having me. Thanks for joining us on this episode of very treasure. Don't forget to subscribe to school Duggary on apple podcasts. Regulus into your podcast and tell us what you think legal review. Sure to follow us on social media and skulduggery pot. We'll talk to you on Friday.
History in Five Songs 79: NWOBHM Compilations
"You've heard the music now. Here's the story from director frank marshall. Hbo's new documentary the bg's how can you mend broken heart. Chronicles the highs and lows of brothers berry maurice and robin gibb and the evolution of the prolific career as the bg's through interviews and never before seen footage discover how they navigated the ever changing music industry and complex dynamics of family and fame. Watch it now on hbo and hbo. Max this really cops and you're listening to have beyond podcast history in five songs with host martin popoff production. He of theon podcasts. Let's rock out with martin. Yes indeed martin popoff back again for another episode of history and five songs with martin popoff. That's me brought to you by the good folks at pantheon podcasts. We are pleased as always be part of this pantheon. Podcast network always growing available on spotify i tunes and over forty other podcast platforms all right. This episode is episode seventy nine. So there's only one thing we can talk about in Seventy nine And that is nineteen seventy-nine in the start of the new wave of british heavy metal. Great kickoff year to just a great great You know three four year run For for all things metal if you were young metalhead growing up in the seventies there were never enough to buy That got solved by the new wave of british heavy metal patches singles compilations and. That's actually what we're gonna talk about here so this episode nineteen seventy-nine Is called new. Wave of british. Heavy metal compilations. I just wanted to you know give a tribute to to how important compilations are were During this time and this is the perfect time to talk about this because it's a rainy cold day in toronto here in the winter of twenty twenty. You know when it's cold and rainy out. You know your thoughts. Drift across the pond to to Jolly old england right and so this is a perfect time. It's the perfect weather for the new wave of british heavy metal But no i love this idea of You know this being a movement and why is it movement while there's lots of reasons there's there's independent releases there's independent forty fives and small labels put note forty fives and small labels putting out albums and there's compilations there's patches. There's a uniform. There's lots of records all at once. There's lots of bands getting together to play at once. So yes this is a movement. It's not exactly a genre i suppose. But it's definitely a movement. The new wave of british heavy metal and compilations are one of the things that really fired us up. As what would. I have been at this point. Seventeen years old. I suppose one thousand nine hundred eighty but but that's what we're going to talk about here the compilations that really did Fire us up getting these albums. These aren't necessarily the most collectable compilations and we will give a shout out to some of those at the end But yeah the this idea of compilations is always a very interesting thing for a movement. I remember in the punk movement again. I could probably and might still do an episode on punk compilations at some point. But i remember getting that french. New wave sampler with stiff baiters on the cover. I think that was the first time i ever heard the damned. I think that compilation is a seventy six compilation. There's the streets compilation with all those rare bands at never put out any albums. That one was awesome there was live at the roxy with slaughter and the dogs. I think adverts is on. There may be x ray specs but that was a bunch of buzzcocks. I think is on there. So that's a bunch of bands playing live on so that really kinda got you fired up about punk All these different bands on these on these comps getting getting to check them out The new wave of british heavy metal even did a better job of this. I thought So yeah let's let's start off with our first one because this is this is it is history and five songs and this is kind of like some historically important comps i think as well seleka say not the most rarest ones but kind of importance wants so. Let's take a listen to this. I track This is angel witch with a bathroom at all right there. You go bathroom at may. Whatever the devil it's It's angel which. I wanted to play this one for a couple of reasons. Nobody fired up. The new wave of british heavy metal excitement like angel which even more so than iron maiden because they were underground and this is an example of angel. Which doing that. Cool thing where you're getting just a rip roar and killer dumi evil metal track. That doesn't even show up on the absolutely classic debut album killer killer record the angel which debut so this is This is may from the first medal for mother's very very important record february nineteen eighty again These are ones that. I have a real fondness for Compilations wise so so. This is what i got as a new release. I still have my Import copy of this The cool thing about this is Emi major label was was early to the game with the new wave of british heavy metal. And they you know they signed as some iron maiden famous one but yeah this has You know a great illustration of like a You know a night looks like a female night actually riding a horse With a guitar so everything about this is is like giving all those visual cues that. There's a new metal movement afoot and And here you've got just standard illustration you've even got the you know. The cool spiky lettering going on You know kind of kind of like you know. Metallica comes from this right but But yeah this compilation is kind of interesting. Also because It shows A movement in transition. So you've got an you know an old hat old school band called not stewing bootleggers. Nuts would change their name to rage and be a little more modern anew a british every middle but they were still kind of bluesy. Seventy s Boogie woogie band Really fit The samson track on here is not a heavy one. You've got this of course very odd blues in a by toad the wet sprocket But other than that Was very cool about this is you. Do get iron maiden doing sanctuary. And you get iron maiden rothschild so you get to amazing amazing iron maiden songs early on. They're the only band on here with two songs. Praying mantis capture city wasn't so great. Ethel the frog with fightback killer killer song it was probably the best song on that Self titled debut album. But that's on here so that really got you fired up about this. Weird band named ethel the frog sledgehammers on here. Kind of a basheer weird Cross between and hawk wind. I suppose fighting for rock and roll. I don't think i if i recall correctly. That wasn't that great. But you know it absolutely the coolest thing on here by far. Is this angel. Which track that that i played you. So yeah medal from others. Very important early sampler. Let's move on Sticking with this theme the other one that was super super important at the time or one of them was the second medal for mother's Metal for mother's volume to says cut loud on it kind of cool blue and purple theme. This one didn't do as well as the first one. The first one actually went to Like a number twelve placement on the british charts and it was fueled by the fact that there was a tour. Put put around at sort. Rarely kicked off The new wave of heavy metal had iron maiden an angel witch and probably samson and praying mantis and a bunch of bands on their All get together and go up and down the country plane a plane. These incendiary British heavy metal gigs. And i believe one of those gigs in one of the things that where you get that term. The new wave of british heavy metal If you recall there was a big It's the ted nugent of sounds. I believe ted nugent on the cover. And there's a big review of one of these shows and The writer of the review doesn't doesn't coined the phrase. It's it's whoever put in the sub heading. And i can't remember the guy's name now but in in there it says something about a new wave of british heavy metal and that's where That's where it comes from So the second one. I totally remember loving this at the same time as well and Well let's take a listen. Yeah we haven't played Played the song yet. Take a listen this this is the raid with hard lines s escape. Hard all right. I wanted to pick you something. Pretty cool off of the second one and You know in the spirit of the second medal from others because these are not super famous. Bands Nobody on here got got famous. In fact the coolest thing on here So that was that was a great song by by non l. p. and The the best thing on the second medal from others of course is This great great band. That never did put out an album. At the time trespass they opened the The proceedings with one of these days just really. Good commercial hooky catchy. There are so much promise for this band. Trespass and then the The legendary storm child like super super heavy. Trespass song is also on here. So just like maiden is the only band with two songs on the first one trespass signaling. Their greatness is the only band on the second one with two songs But they never you know they never fulfilled that greatness and put our now album. Was you do have chevy is on here with chevy. But you've got white spirit with high upon. Hi good catchy song. They were sort of the The pomp rock deep purple of the new wave of british heavy metal So there's that one yannick gears obviously goes on to to to the gillan band Another great song on here is dark. Star lady of mars They put out an album And then another one. That wasn't good but their first one is is a true new wave of british heavy metal album. It's a little bit dated but lady amar's is the best song on that album and it is on this cop as well. So it's a good iron maiden gallup good solid song zero cutting loose kinda punky easy money telephone man so so yeah the cool thing about this one when we got so this is this is just later in nineteen eighty so it's still kind of the first big year the new wave birsh heavy metal. The cool thing about this one is that you're getting a whole new kind of crop of bands You know getting on this. You know semi esteemed emi sampler And then and then not much coming of these bands. So it's kind of cool to see that. Yeah there so This whole undercarriage of the new wave of british heavy metal there are these bands bubbling under so. It's not just a few bands. You're seeing that. This is truly a movement a huge Sort of heavy metal army. All right let's take a quick break. We'll be right back all right back again. Here episode seventy nine new wave of british heavy metal compilations on history in five songs with martin popoff. this was another sampler That really really loved got this Pretty early on It's the new. Electric warriors sampler and this is also one thousand. Nine hundred sampler the cool thing about this so you've got the front cover. You've got a guy with guitar slung across his back and then you've got a motorcycle on the cover. Kinda motorcycle is it will. It's a kawasaki k. L. to fifty. So it's a small motorcycle and it's and it's green. It's got lime green paint up for its paint scheme so it doesn't look like much of a motorcycle and then off in the distance. You've got three guys inexplicably. They all got their motorcycle helmets on so did all three of these guys ride this to fifty Who knows but anyways. They're they're they're assuming the era guitar stance which is Which is a new cool thing that was happening with the new british heavy metal right. It's a it's a big part of it. But the cool thing about this sampler which i loved god it as a new release them looking at my copy right here This was a logo slash. Mca sampler so this is again. Mca was the other label besides besides emi. That was kind of like getting their feet in this quickly and do and doing well with an and logo was sort of a sub imprint but the neat thing about this sampler was that you got sixteen tracks on it on a single album and it was all rarities everything here is is rare just just to run through it quickly. So we play. We haven't played anything yet actually. Yeah let's let's. Let's play something from this first of all and And we'll keep discussing. I wanted to play the best song of this from this one. This is The very last song on us. So the sixteenth track. Take a listen. This is race against time with bedtime. Your name all right. So yes continuing on so that. That's a killer killer track great vocals on that And abandoned went nowhere but nobody here went anywhere. We have turbo. Buffalo streetfighter stormtrooper tarot best deal awesome. Don watcher vardis. Okay so vardis where. The biggest logo act They're kind of like a a new wave of british heavy metal version of status quo Silver wing rob stallion colossus jedidiah strutt warrior cauti- and what we just played race against time. Now the cool thing about these bands on. I'm not saying all of them but most of them are also you know good solid participators in the whole forty five rpm things so these guys had cool cool singles out most of these bands if not all of them. But this was a good solid sampler and again of just total rarities so so it made you feel like you're part of the You know part of the whole Underground movement with these bands and again. It was a underscoring the fact that there was a lot of great bands. Coming up as the nextwave But unfortunately You know they're the None of these really made it. We've got a liner notes by nigel. Burnham glasgow a thirteen seven thousand nine hundred eighty so. He's writing these liner notes. July thirteenth nineteen eighty so still very early in the new waiver. Chevy metal but but so yeah. These are all the young bands coming up the big bands that had lots of albums out and stuff. You know people people always forget this but those bands most of them had been going since. Seventy four seventy five. So they're starting up this lonely metal movement wishing there was more heavy metal out there And getting kind of nowhere but you know. They are perfectly attuned and ready. You know the likes of your saxons and ravens and and You know iron maiden these bands that have been going awhile and and so they're the guys that got the two three four records out but Yeah noth- nothing on here Really made it so There you go new electric warriors another cop that was super super important as a kid. Let's move on Take a listen to this And then we will discuss this angel. Which once again with extermination day outside all right so i had to play angel which twice Just in amish to angel which because they are such They're they embody all the cool things about the new wave of british heavy metal. This idea of having these tracks that don't show up on their on their seminal album and so they're participating in all this their touring they're putting out singles you know. Twelve inch singles Seven inch singles with the devil on the cover like this was scary scary stuff this early angel which stuff and it was so good. I mean i've always maintained that angel which for one brief magical year basically nineteen eighty was as good or better than iron maiden and then and then iron maiden quickly got way better and angel where which kind of practice getting worse. But i wanted to play this one Because again it's a non l. p. track and it's an awesome awesome track. Best thing on this. This is from the metal explosion from the friday rock show compilation and this was another one that That i remember getting you know right at the time. It's another one thousand nine hundred eighty. These are bbc sessions. So it's kinda cool seeing bbc You know participating in this whole thing and then also they. They did a follow up. So there's a sister album called just the friday. Rock show nineteen eighty-one which is kind of more of the same But yeah what. I loved about this complicate again. You've got another You know autograph aerosmith just push play robot y and t robot Just like on metal from others back again. Playing guitar looks looks to be like a gibson les paul. But you've you've essentially got this this robot armor deal playing this heavy metal. Everything's about heavy metal The the all the visual accuser their the way they weren't there really in the seventies Soviet this great album cover You've got samson with take it like a man so sampson of course is one of the very very first new wave of british heavy metal bands you know arguably the first put out an album got praying mantis with johnny cool not so great trespasses back again with visionary tar paper chaser You know pretty cool tune. I was going to pick this one. It's got a little bit of a southern rock. feel to it. I suppose but yeah. I thought i thought that was a pretty cool one on here. You've got more with soldier. Now moore's an interesting band. They're abandoned put out a debut. Major label debut. That i thought wasn't very good with With paul mario day but their second album. Which a lot of people don't talk about blood and thunder one thousand nine hundred eighty two again on a major label. I'd buy believe it's an atco record. Why are the greatest new wave of british heavy metal albums of all time. They should have been bigger. It sounds like a stadium. Rock version of new wave of british heavy metal. It's it's as good as def leppard. And i are made and all that but even with more bite and and with this great strength News new singer. A short haired yellow graham bonnet sorta look i think his name was mixed stratton But what an amazing amazing singer and great album but so more is on here. Money is on here with leo the gesture gill and if you believe bad bad gillan choice i you know. That's a. that's a slow ponderous. Not so great song But again angel witch just just stealing the show with extermination day just this black blade of doom to close the out in the fourth track on the eight eight songs on this But again. Another cool sampler from the new wave of british show that all right so let's move on our our fifth and final track Here on episode seventy nine a bridge heavy metal compilations. Take a listen to this. This prowler with gotta get back to you from. Mca's brute force sampling again back to you all right so this was another one That I remember getting at the time again. A nineteen eighty album. And i wanted to pay homage to this one because this is a proving a what i was saying before. Mca being the other label. Besides the guy who did a great job with the new wave of british heavy metal Samplers and signing bands. And putting stuff out. So here you get to see the band that they signed. I actually tigers pantex on here. They were a big one that they signed. They had that they had fist. They had diamond head white spirit quartz quartz after their Their logo you know. They're they're kind of major reading tins rare and logo there sort of under situation when they got to stand up shout it's a straight squarely Mca release and i think it's one of the great unsung new wave of british heavy metal albums. But this is another band. They used to be called bandy legs so they go back to the late. Seventy s So yeah so. So this sampler you have dime ahead with its electric fist with brain damage raven. Let it rip. Some of these versions are different versions. I believe than than than are on the the l. p. Version this song prowler. I wanted to play prowler. Gotta get back to you because it's one of these that is You know one of these unsung bands. That kind of never went anywhere. Sledgehammer fantasia a hilarious song. Here again. Just this really cool atmospheric new wave of british heavy metal vibe but but a little bit of hawk when a little bit of motorhead a little. Bit of going off the rails. Oddly on here you've got colin towns from the gillan band and mick underwood from the gillan band each doing solo tracks but they're useful Collins has vocals mix i believe is a instrumental white spirit with back to the grind. Really good solid white. Spirit song off of their Their debut album Courts with can't say no to us zero hold on. That was pretty cool. Cryer day to day. Don't remember mae west of black queen. Don't quite remember but yeah so so a few rarities mixed in their bands at didn't make records with bands of did make records. I wanted like. I say i wanted to pick that one Because it basically shows you. How cool Mca was in there. Yeah and so. That's it for our tracks. I wanted to just mention a couple honorable mentions here. You know i did this. New wave of british heavy metal trilogy of books to our timeline books. They're all still available. I've got them at martin. Popoff dot com. I've actually got all here in toronto as well But the first one so the the second and third time line with quotes books but the first one is a reviews book. Smoking valves ahead head. Bangers guide nine hundred new wave of british heavy metal records did of a cheat their most of these singles of course are not full length records but You know the various album section had all hell let loose. There's our friday rock show heavy metal heroes. That was a cool rare early. One from eighty one heavy metal heroes. Volume two is eighty two These are heavy metal records. Remember that paul birch label. There's two medal for mothers the metallic storm so there were all those ebony samplers right with all those crushing darrell johnson recording values So you had those Ebony records samplers Yeah the mother's pride. Epa wanted to mention that so there was. There was one other medal for mother's thing and it was It was just a four track. Ep called mother's pride and it had on their wildfire with wild dogs. Which is a pretty. You know rockin fast moving This is This is Palmeiro days you know banned after more You've got white spirit on there with red skies with which is an album track. It's off of the white spirit album so again only four tracks on here baby. Jane baby jane not so great Kind of kind of a good recording. But it's it's a little bit too pomp rocky. The gem on mother's pride is courts with back in the band so again a non album track just so much atmosphere in chemistry to that song little bit of a seventies vibe to it but it's just a really cool party hard metal tune So this is. This is sort of from the era again showing. How amazing courts was during the the stand up and show air. But it's not on that record back in the back so that was a cool one from mother's pride but everybody forgets that one because it essentially with only four songs it was kind of a bit of an afterthought You know it. It's odd having compilation with four songs. Yeah we had one take no dubs. One hundred percent pure metal sampler. Yeah that was I believe that was a roadrunner. Canada won the didn't remember the reading. Rock a double double album live there. steel crazy so yes. So here's three. I wanted to mention that. That are amazing. I just have kind of cd burns of these with with booklets but they kind of go as as a as a bit of a group Remember i and i didn't include these. Because i didn't get these at the time. I wish i did because they became you know. Couple three hundred dollar compilations in terms of what they were worth. But there was the rock snacks. Uh sampler at the rocks caliber sampler and the scene of the crime sampler scene of the crime had sparta savage early savage manitou tyrant panzer division. Panzer division was another great banned from this whole thing. Rox caliber had black rose battle-axe marauder brands hatch unter den linden satan schizophrenic and rocks. Snacks had sarasin samurai and hollow ground. And i believe yeah hollow. Ground was one of the better bands of Of those you know those super rare ones You know all their stuff's kind of worth it but so this This one the cool thing about rox snacks is it's got twelve tracks and only Yeah i guess only the three different bands so everybody gets to stretch out and really show what they've got So that was cool so all of those were were fairly rare ones that were worth a fair bit of money at the time and unfortunately i never stumbled across copies and bought them because they were you know they were much more indie. You know the the suspect in the guardian record labels kind of kind of small stuff right but but yeah more great great stuff on those and all this stuff you can hear all this stuff on youtube now anyways which is kinda cool. So there you go. I just wanted Again this episode was to pay tribute to the new british heavy metal. It was episode seventy-nine raining outside. It's winter so yeah. This is the perfect kind of atmosphere to celebrate the new era chevy metal at one of the cool things about which was the samplers If you like to show and want to support future episodes you can go to co fee ryan's with no fee At kofi dot com slash martin popoff. And you can hit that red support button and buy me a cough european. I'm i'm kind of trying to have this This goal of Of having an hourly wage of out of doing Doing these episodes and so far. It's been kind of you know bobbling around that a little over little under so it's been kind of cool So i want to thank everybody who has contributed in the past has been lots and lots of different people contributing in the past. And and this current list is is current. Contributors bruce campbell andrew clark. Christopher clement todd. Evans dave fisher. Kevin latham jamie laszlo. David lieberman and roberto vega thank you very much again. You can go to martin popoff dot com for all your book needs like i said i do have these new british heavy metal ones. I've got the iron maiden sets Saxon is getting low. I think i've got maybe twenty sacks ago angel which has only been out for three three weeks two weeks. I've only got about thirty of those left as well. So these things do come in and out of Out of stock and they can be gone forever in some cases. The judas priest turbo book. Even though it's showing my site don't have any I'm out of turbo. But i do have the first judas priest a motorhead actually. I think i've got a couple of copies of that as well. So that's it for your more New wave of british heavy metal. Themed books here. So thank you very much Take a listen to some of this stuff and we shall talk to you again next time for episode eighty all of our shows notes social and links at. Www dot pound pantheon podcasts dot com. Or wherever you listen to great podcasts. All songs who'd be found for purchase on itunes spotify or google play please purchase. He's great important tracks. Find us on facebook at our in our. Ap we are on instagram. At our our archaeology treated on and on january one thousand nine hundred ninety eight one thousand nine year old singer. Songwriter has released her debut. Single those nuts you just heard where the first of music that the world ever heard from a young british woman and with that debut song she influenced a whole new generation of female singers and showed what women in music could really do. Butch hi i'm successively your host of the podcast strange phenomena the music of kate bush. In this podcast. I'm discussing the history and story of every song they kate. Bush has ever produced in order album by album and every episode features a fan or two talking about why that song so much we talk about not just the big hits but also the besides and collaborations so come. Join me on a journey through the extensive catalog of the one and only kate bush available. Never get your podcast and a proud member of the pantheon podcast network.
The View of the Insurrection From D.C. Residents
"Welcome to govern daily. It's january eleventh. i'm katherine mcintire. Peters your guest hosts today we decided to do something. Different for this episode normally rushed opportunity would be hosting the show with adam butler producing him. But today i'm going to interview the two of them instead. We're recording this on january eighth after an extraordinary week in washington. Supporters of president trump stormed the us capital on wednesday seeking to overturn the results of the twenty twenty election despite those results being certified by every state in this nation. They did this after considerable encouragement from the president himself who refused to accept the election outcome and has spent weeks peddling conspiracy theories an unsubstantiated claims of fraud. They did not succeed. of course. there are many many threats to the story of this week's events but we're going to send our conversation on what this week was like for. Ross adam they're both dc residents and experienced journalists. Adam dc native born and raised here and raw transplant from the chicago suburbs. Who's lived here for many years. Welcome to the show us feels weird saying but Thanks for having us definitely. I'll have you back starting very soon. So i was just were journalists were all. We've all experienced a lot of political protests and demonstrations in washington over the years. But this one fell really different in personal and emotional way to me And i'm wondering. Did it feel that way to the two of you. I'll start yeah it it did I would say obviously never in my lifetime. I've seen the capital be attacked right and living here am honestly being able to look out my window and see you know Downtown dc and see all the beautiful buildings in in the area you know. It was a little nerve wracking as a family. Man is mary man in a father. You know to wonder just how far out was going to go. You know there was a bit of add some feeling that maybe it wouldn't get that bad. You know being optimistic. But i think for the first time in a long time. I seriously worried okay. What's going to happen here. Can it will get to my doorstep. Is that possible. My family lives in this into city. All over the city are they safe and mainly on as my son and my wife safe so that was. That was the difference for me and adam your son is. He's he's young. He's at a really impressionable age numb what what. What did you tell them. What kind of questions did he have as. This wasn't bowling. You know what's interesting about him is he's so little he didn't really understand Some he he six so he he didn't really understand. I will say For my younger brother and sister. My brother is Twenty three and my sister seventeen. This was confusing for them and very scary phenomena. That was different to you. Know they were really shook up by this and think for them. This is their first time seeing true. unrest in the nation. At least in deir opinion true unrest in the nation. So i did have conversations with both of them on a father and and we had to condom noun. Frankly this was very different for them. Well yeah i am sure it was. So how about your us. did this Feel different to you from previous Events and protests a yes or no. I know early in the day. I didn't think much of it. And certainly in the run up to the announcement that they're going to be people in town Sporting president trump and his Claims that the election was stolen or whatever And so again. The usual jokes with friends about staying out of downtown of that was kind of how i took it Even up to when the president had his rally. I guess earlier in the day When when those kind of clips were circulating before the storming of the capital happened. I i was in a meeting. You know so. I didn't really know what was was happening. Because i i was busy and Being pretty comparatively close to the capital. I'm two miles basically a straight shot From the capitol you. When i took the metro to work before i was working from home. You could see the capitol dome for metro station all that stuff. I mean to sort of echo at atom says. It's it's it's hard when you live and work in the city and i think our listeners who are Feds who work at agency headquarters and stuff could understand that To to underestimate how how big a deal. It is For something like this. And i think Something we've talked about in the office. The proverbial office. I guess now that we're all work from home virtual office if you've ever covered hearing in in in the capital if you cover congress it's your workplace you know it's but i think the symbolism particularly is is striking because it does seem almost Eternal it has a very old architectural style. It's gleaming white. It's always a made into this. Very shiny reflective almost eternal place. it's the same as it was when i came in my junior high trip. Twenty whatever years ago as it is now so even if you're not someone who watches the west wing quotes the american president and all that kind of stuff where you believe in america even if you're not that person it has almost secular sanctity here in town and so seeing it breached like that is incredibly jar if it really feels different than a demonstration on the mall where people even if they're threatening brandishing weapons wherever it looks very different when it's almost like you know it looks like something out of a movie where the the the goths storm the castle right now. I i was really surprised that i lived on capitol hill for eighteen years before moving out to virginia and and i lived on on the hill before nine. Eleven when you could actually walk up the steps of the capitol and was always where we took out of town visitors to see the city. That just wonderful Majestic view of of the mall from the capitol steps and And i i felt watching us sort of personally like wow. You're talking my capital and almost struck a surprised by how that felt kind of persons. So i totally hear what you're saying. This is really an attack on our democracy. Our democratic system. I would add one thing to to. What what adam said it specifically about where you wonder how much it's coming my family doesn't live here. I as catherine as you mentioned i i. I'm from chicago area. And i had multiple members of friends and family sale. You gotta get outta town. You can stay with me like take the dog. Put her in the car. Like whatever come on. Now it's ridiculous and i even. I knew that like. I wasn't necessarily at threat which is a particular type of privilege for sure but i think why that was more now than it's ever been was because of the lack of predictability of this particular event when you're talking to people who are so involved in things that do not work within. I think i would say reasonable expectations of how at least the people in my friends and family see the world. A guy in a bear skin Another guy wearing a fox over his head like at that point anything kinda goes guy hanging onto the rafters in the capital. Like that's part of the imagery of this was how chaotic it was that it's hard not to think like anything can happen now. right. That that's really true. I mean it was so I mean the image has was just so arresting of these people really trashing the capital and was it was stunning. So what expectations did you each bring to this day. I mean we all knew this rally was happening. We've talked about it. We planned for it. president trump himself had been encouraging. This and saying telling everyone was going to be a quote wild time. What what expectations did each of you have on wednesday morning when you woke up and locked in started working. You know the weird thing about it is. I'm not surprised by anything that happened. So what did the back of my mind. I thought that it could get crazy because of the rhetoric They've been going on You know from the president from some of his associates for wow You never anticipate seeing people ransack and you know. Nancy pelosi's desk or anything like that. So i'd i'd be lying. If i said i thought that would happen but i was concerned about people being in town that were you know. Frankly roundup ginned up and in ready for action frankly You know. I was concerned about them. Just being in town and running into some of them were someone i know. Run into them. I know people that still have to go physically to work work in restaurants in you know that are essential workers right and so i had concerned for them so my expectations was that this would be an eventful day It would get you know you would see what you see. We'll be seen in the past with Protests and demonstrations city. Maybe a couple of arrests maybe a couple. You know confrontations on twitter or something. Like that. I could not have imagined that they would blessing to the capitol dome and do what they did but i did. I did think that it would get kinda crazy. Yeah yeah it's it's pretty much same. I lived here for almost eighteen years now. And i've seen a lot of demonstrations on the mall near the mall and You know it's. We've all heard the statistics. About how dc is one of the most heavily policed areas in the country if not the most because of all the different jurisdictions park police Dhs police capital police metropolitan police firemen. So i sort of assumed that this would go off like any other event that was i think foolish. Not just because of the more recent experiences we've had over the last year and i imagine we'll touch on that With regards to protest in dc and How those let's say play out. I just assumed it wouldn't be much. Because i like a lot of people and i think this is a deficit of of our business to a certain extent. A lot of people press. Don't take this stuff particularly seriously. And i think it's it's very evident that they take a deadly seriously The people who are mobbing inspecting and whatever and so because of that like atom. I wasn't totally shocked. Because this is the kind of stuff that people have been talking about in that world for longtime revolution and whatnot. What i didn't take it as seriously as i as i should have. And and something that. I've said to people for you need. Take a lot shots eventually. One's going to go in. You know what. I mean like if anybody watches sports watches hockey or soccer basketball. Whatever eventually you know one goes in. And i don't know that this totally went in because By some accounts sounds like they were out for a lot more violence or occupying the capital. Or whatever but i think it would be silly to say this was not an effective campaign or action or whatever they were trying to do the actual situation succeeded at least partially and i think there needs to be a real re-evaluation i think broadly about why one of the things you touch on rawson certainly was one of the most striking things about the law enforcement response was how different it was from the response. Black lives matter demonstrations summer A lot of us have been offended. An appalled by that Adam as a black man as a dc native. I imagine that made a particular impression on you. Is that right absolutely absolutely You know even beyond that we talk about the curfew and everything that had to be inactive because people. Can't you know when you're a resident here. People wanna use this city as an example things way people talk about. The city is almost as if they aren't people that live here right. They are people outside of capitol hill. Just basically just as place where politicians come and play so. Sometimes people come here for demonstrations such and it's like they use. This place is just like the playground So even you know. I was concerned about the curfew because my mind the people that were down there they weren't going to be the ones affected by the curfew. They know they're sticking out is again. It's my cousin. It has to get off work at eleven o'clock. And i will probably not on that night but you know normally at eleven o'clock at night and has been on his phone all day and he just doesn't always going on. He lives. You know he works in on north west or over georgia avenue which is not close to where the demonstrators were. People live in washington dc. So there was that part of it but also we'd and we've covered it on this show like the response to the black lives matters protests especially by the president and we all know using the bring a bible out and using tactical soldiers look like to clear to clear. Lafayette part was. Disturbing is not like i want to see. People get beat up is not like i was looking at it would beat them up to is just it just shows that it just makes you wonder what's right and what's wrong in a response. How can you break into the capitol dome. In thirty six at nancy pelosi's desk instill podiums in brick. And you know who knows what happened. Had someone ran into an actual senator or congressman date. Don't like what would have happened if they would've saw someone that they disagree with based to face so happy that didn't happen so for that to be allowed and then you look at what happened over the summer when it seemed like they were. They approached it in more aggressive manner. Almost what the expectations. That black lives matter. Protesters were going to do. This is just makes you wonder like well. What did they think this group of people are going to do. And did they not pay attention to the rhetoric that was online and was not secret is not good to go on the dark web defined this stuff dare it was right there so it's confusing and i'm sorry that answer isn't you know a well thought out but it's just that's just how i feel right now i it's confusing is is really confusing and i don't know what the thing When it comes to this as a black man other than just to be disappointed and scared practically yeah. Yeah i mean it was just. It was appalling and cheaply disturbing. And i think biden spoke to this very specifically yesterday that there is such visible inequity in how law enforcement has responded to this versus other of protests and that i'm i'm hopeful that that's something that really will Make an impression on people who can make a difference in the future. You know we all have our own views and biopsies that are shaped by our experiences And as journalists we are aware of them and we try very hard to to put them aside in in doing our jobs. An often impressed with your ability. Ross when you do this podcast and do these interviews at your ability to to do that When you're asking questions and the moaner what what are the issues. You are wrestling with as you think. About what podcast. You may be doing in the future on on these events your to me. That's the job in in any single listeners. Mileage may vary in. How will i do the job. I'm not so confident to think that i'm unbiased or that. I can keep my personal experience or even a my world view that is shaped by that personal experience out of the show entirely But i tried to be professional. And i i tried to prevent a try to present pushback to our guests when they say something that needs it. as a host i think to a certain said part of the job and this is far too inside baseball. I'm sure for many people perhaps including gathering I'm i'm also an avatar of the audience with with the guest of a guest says something that has another viable side. It's it's that's the job is to present it to the guests who Spur the discussion kind of tease out. You know what you mean by that in this story both now and going forward. I think we have to look at it as a culmination or at least the latest culmination of The trump years which is what we've been covering the last few weeks as We've we've done a lot of shows on on the kind of effect that the president has had on our audience particularly the civil service regulatory policy those kinds of things You know for me. I'm a lot of things Many of which Many of those things are things that president trump and his supporters have directly insulted or derided or criticized for many years That includes my job. I'm a journalist and the president is called the press the enemy of the people. During this event this insurrection event his supporters Wrote murder the media on red ink on a door inside the capitol. There's there's been at his rallies many people with shirts that say rope tree journalists. Some assembly require That's tough I'm also sort of speak to Your personal identity. I i chose the journals. I guess to a certain extent Religious traditions is is a choice. But i was raised jewish. I am jewish Which is certainly more complicated with regards to the president and even with regards to the people who stormed the capital yesterday but when you see people wearing Pro pro nazi stuff or white supremacists flags There was one person with a shirt that said six million wasn't enough. You know charlottesville immediately comes to mind all those kinds of things that's Difficult and that's before we get into what happened in pittsburgh in san diego so from that perspective. It's it's difficult to not have that pepper the show but those issues at least as far as what we cover on on the podcasts. I mean we try to make it so that that's not part of what we cover I do wanna say to to kind of build off with adam said a little Is that identity does play into the role of the press and again this. This is probably something that might be a little too inside journals for people who don't care about this kinda thing you the rules of the game of the business that we participate in were written by a certain type of person and that and they have been enforced by that certain type of person and that's largely somebody like me. I'm not gonna act like it's not So the idea of the sort of biopsies that framing even within like what is considered neutral is what i see as neutral not necessarily what the people who storm the capital c. neutral. They're they're part of the landscape that they find to be so upsetting is that the press does not reflect the reality they see and that's not untrue. Either for the people who protested over the summer in dc against racialized police violence now. I'm not trying to equate those groups. Because if you take i think it's it's well established that if you take the level of violence From the People who stormed the i think the most ardent trump supporters and you compare it to the level of the people protesting affiliated with the movement for black lives. There's no connection as far as the actual level of violence But i only say that. I only mentioned them both to say that there is a lack of representation. They feel there's a lack of representation of what they see as reality in our business. And that's how you have particularly with the Outgrowth of so many different media social media but but also you know independent. They feel that the legacy media does not reflect back. So i i do want to realize a little bit here and and to say about a year and a half ago. A coastguard officer was arrested less than a mile from where i sit right now with a huge cache of guns and kill list public figures most of whom were singled out by president. Trump people like kamala harris. Nancy plus three and a half years ago. Charlottesville happened twice over the last year. Feds have the feds have broke up. Kidnapping and assassination plots targeted democratic governors connected somewhat to mask mandates and again singled out by the president in the case of governor. Whitmer of michigan. What i see to a certain extent in two thousand nine a career civil servant An analyst ehs name darrell. Johnson arthur report on domestic terrorist threats stemming from the extreme right-wing movements in this country the report was specifically produced for law enforcement to an. I'm quoting here. I'm looking at the report on my screen. Quote facilitate a greater understanding of the phenomenon. Violent radicalisation in the united states. Catherine you remember this. I'm sure the report was panned everywhere. People were calling for janet napolitano to step down because it mentioned the military veterans could be part of these type of groups. So take take veterans out of it just just for For now the department of homeland security and local police forces clearly do not take right wing domestic terrorism serious and that's what we saw capitol. Police is undergoing leadership shakeups because of the absolutely inadequate response last week but also because leadership said there was no indication that it was planned despite it being all over the social media fever swamps like parlor and read it in eighteen. And all that stuff. Dhs was nowhere to be found parked. Police was barely present so to sort of bring it back to the bias question. I think any listener. Who has gone this deep into today's code and is a regular listener to the show Who understand that. We do have a bias towards government. Efficacy which i don't think is some kinda crazy notion we just say that advocacy can take a lot of different forms. We can have a million different conversations about how to make government most useful or effective to the people's lives but the outcomes should be the same in particularly in this case. What is the purpose of law enforcement at the capitol. Police love at the federal level if not to stop this sort of thing from happening if the department of homeland security which was cobbled together in the wake of the september eleventh attacks as an umbrella organization if they can't even keep homeland terrorist attacks from materializing over and over and over. Why does it even exist like what. What are we doing here. If the department of homeland security cannot keep right wing terrorism from consistently having near misses or successes in their attacks again. I don't need to you can cry lone wolf all you want and we all know that does happen but the near misses if you keep having near misses rather eventually something's going to hit you had a civilian get four civilians die that i know of you had officer die and you had public representatives that included the vice president of the united states in the speaker of the house who lives were put in danger because they didn't take ross is talking about seriously enough desk. That is a pie rate. Their citizens were endanger. Public officials were endanger and people die and officers. Were in danger right right now there. There are so many questions that need to be answered and responded to hear an. I think you know so many of us were just utterly shocked by the by the the response the non-response for so many hours You know a what are the images we saw on. Friday saw an wednesday. Were really stomach. Churning to me. I mean flags with nazi symbols. A white supremacist images. Confederate flag being carried through the the halls of the capitol. I have to confess to the two of you had some trepidation about our conversation. Today i mean given the difficult and sensitive issues. Those images conjure You know white woman black man and you walk into a podcast together. Could work around there. So i want to ask both of you. Do you think this event is going to make those easy. There's issues easier to talk about or more difficult to talk about. So i'm a. I'm generally optimistic person. You'll notice was real counterbalance to me. Very optimistic guy Even life tells me Should be but i. I do think that there was a bit of an awakening yesterday. I mean i'm sorry on On wednesday how fast will things begin to progress. I don't know. But i do think that ross talks about this a lot. There's been distinct been brewing for a long time and people who have been ignoring it ignoring it ignoring it and our politicians and the media you know some media lesson to be disrespectful to anyone have sort of normalized distinct that been able to really get a grasp on it and really find a way to Articulated the audience was really going on. For whatever reason. I take after seeing and seeing what could have happened in in really seeing you know many ways it was the worst of it but how how much worse it could have been I think people are starting to be aware. And it's really easy to say to people that this is bad even if you're a supporter of the president if you're a supporter with morals. I should be able to talk to you. And i have been able. I've seen people. I know some people that i've been able to have different conversations with about this stuff that i was not able to have before it was always a counter to widow. I was being sensitive. I wasn't seeing things a certain way. Now you know just in my own personal experience with people that i know that are supporters of the president or have different political ideologies than me. We've been able to have conversations because this is sorta like it does. Remind me a nine eleven. I don't not trying to make a comparison but it reminds me of how people felt around the time we were able for just a short period of time can get on. The same page released a base facts. I'm concerned about what happens in the future. When the smoke starts to klay of immoral now we started talking about more detailed things before right now. I think we can agree. That's wrong because again off. If you're pro police police were endanger. If you're pro. People people were put in danger. If you're if you're concerned about public Officials day were put in danger. A unifying thing. And i'm so dishonesty optimistic side of me says i take that. We'll be able to talk but it is still require a lot of work. I don't know i think that's ultimately the question is that you know we as adema i think about all time because i think what we i think a lot of what we do in our public conversations relies on product based analysis in in forgetting how we got to places again a reference it earlier but the fact that that no member of congress was assassinated is considered a win You know the the ralph northam gretchen. Whitmer weren't kidnapped or assassinated. Last year is considered a win. And that that to me is not a whit. I mean it is in the sense that they're still breathing but not in the sense that that that this we've gotten to this point. I don't know how that works out. Going forward yeah. I don't think any of us knows no how it's all going to play out Eventually and i am going to choose to a subscribe to adam's view things that This may open window for more conversations across the device. I'd like to think that we can continue to talk about these difficult issues and understand each other better. Not really the feel like three of us are doing okay here. But you know the our neighbors and friends and and all the people we encounter through our journalism You know will keep doing what we do. I know at least for our show. I you know when when we do shows about You know this for the last Ten eleven months. A lot of shows that we've done that have done very well are ones about the everyday stuff that feds all deal with particularly during the quarantine and certainly if nothing else we have shared values there but is there anything you want to adam to any of this now. I just you know again. I'll just echo which most said that we do have things in common and that may sound hokey and especially at times like this but you know for every person that is unreasonable. I think about two or three more. That are reasonable. They may we may disagree. And i think that's what lies gets blurred disagreement compton with being completely unreasonable. We had to kinda separate ourselves from the people did refuse to listen in. Find the people that are willing to listen. It's not easy Is going to be difficult. But i think that it can be done because it has to be done when things have to be done. You know. i'm a miracle where people could pull. That's really true. I think so. We'll thank you both for being on the show today Us from here on out as thank you. Thanks for listening daily january. Eleventh governor is a daily was produced by adam butler i'm host roster opportunity and i want to think katherine mcintire peters for guest hosting the program. Today our music is a song signals catfish dancing. He should've viewing subscribe on apple. Podcasts or google podcasts review. Get your podcasts. you can email us any feedback at podcast Dot com for up on twitter at covid sec. We'd love to hear from you. We'll talk to you later.