20 Episode results for "d._c"

Meetup in Washington DC, September 3

Radical Personal Finance

01:06 min | 1 year ago

Meetup in Washington DC, September 3

"Good morning radicals today. I have an invitation for you to come and meet up with me in washington d._c. This coming week. I will be hosting a public meet up on on tuesday september three two thousand nineteen in washington d._c. So if you are in the d._c. Area or you would like to be in the d._c. Area i would like to invite you to come and hang out with me. I'll give you all the details. If you will simply email me joshua at radical personal finance dot com. It'll be fairly informal but if you love to meet with listeners whenever had the opportunity so if you are in d._c. Or would like to be in dc on tuesday september three two thousand nineteen in the evening. We'll probably do it from anywhere from say five o'clock to about nine or ten o'clock. I'll hang out for as long as i can. As long as there are people to hang out with <hes> email me joshua radical personal finance dot dot com. I will respond to your email with all of the specific details of the event time location etc washington d._c. Tuesday september three two thousand nineteen in one week from today. Send me an email joshua radical personal finance dot com and hope to see you soon.

d._c washington joshua dc one week
Demi Stratmon & Jamal Holtz with 51 for 51

Two Broads Talking Politics

24:58 min | 1 year ago

Demi Stratmon & Jamal Holtz with 51 for 51

"Hi this is Katie and Arthur. You're listening to two bras talking politics. We need DC statehood now. No Taxation Without Representation Go D._C.. They everyone this is Kelly with too broad stalking politics and today I am very excited to have some youth activists who are fighting for DC statehood as we have a couple of people on the line with us. Today we have demi strap men high demi. Hi How are you great and also joining us is to maul halts hedge mall hello so of course I C youth because you're much younger than I him but of course doesn't mean like twelve or anything so let's let's start by talking a little bit about your your backgrounds a little bit about sort of who you are in how you got involved in political activism. Okay Hayao start so I was born and raised in Washington D._C.. And just growing around kind of the Capitol you kind of always see politics around you but since the focal point of everything you kind of you just push it back and you don't pay attention as much and it was Kinda until I got into high school and I started taking U._S.. History classes in D._C.. History classes I noticed that D._C.. was left out of a lot that was happening happening. Although we were the capital I learned that we really didn't have any representation or people in government representing locals just like me and that's how I kinda got involved. I went to school. I went to Dartmouth College and I studied studied government and now I'm kind of trying to use my degree and practice politics and try to make yeah everything better with my degree Lynn. How about you Jamal so Kellyanne would be frank <hes>? I started not wanting to be a F._B._i.. Agent come on the line and that was my inspiration but when I was at the age of sixteen I joined this <hes> civic engagement program called the Mayor's leadership institute now called the Marion Berry Youth Leadership Leadership Institute and I thought it the line the importance of civic engagement and I thought it was just reflecting my own personal values and some of the stuff and challenges that my family faced from economic disparities to for housing crisis and everything else to insure that my mom had a quality of life for her kids and I started to realize these problems were bigger than just my household and and where our communities so that's when I thought that my only way <hes> make an impact with through politics come in inspiring me to one day be mayor Washington D._C.. But that was that was my impact <hes> lining from my own personal itself but also finding ways to get civically engaged in my community not thought at the see the issues that mattered the most of the <hes> the residents itself Washington D._C.. And I wanted to make impact through politics silly eerie now working with an organization called fifty one for fifty one. Can you tell me a little bit about what that is in the goal is sure so fifty one per fifty one is a political movement and we're specifically asking for D._C.. To become a state with fifty one votes in the Senate the an ad says a we we've been <hes> volunteer for the campaign indoors a lot of movement across face to face to talk the presidential candidates to get them to support the fifty one vote in the Senate to break the Filibuster so d._c.. Residents can have access to for democracy so that's that's pretty much. A goal of it is to not only talk about. DEYSI stayahead and what a democracy looks like with this resident but to talk about it with breaking the filibuster and <hes> make an fifty one votes in the Senate. What are some of the arguments for DC becoming a state start it off with kinds of big ones? I we have no representation. I mean you congress right now. We don't have house of Representatives and we don't have senators and when you look at that that means that we don't have a voice for a lot of the key issues going on in the country she right now we kind of have to just sit back and see what other states decide for us kind of like we're locked in a bubble when real-life situations that these are covering impact D._C.. Residents Dennis like they impact other individuals in this country and that's one of the main ones. I guess another reason you could say is we're being taxed and with that. I feel like personally for me. It kinda sucks when I I see that I'm working and you know you get back. Your get your checking. You see that federal income taxes being taken out and your state but it kind of feels like for what you know I kind of feel that money is just being taken. I have no say for what what is action going to those are Ni- those are two reason why I'm really passionate about the movement yeah and I think that's it I think <hes> as a human rights issue in the humor crisis that D._C.. Weather than space when you when you compare I think we we have a larger population than Wyoming Vermont. <hes> we pay more federal income taxes than twenty three other states or even greater I think when we talk about some of the issues and the things that happened whether now city such as gun gun laws and when when we see crisis from <hes> economic standpoint where we talk about abortion and everything I was those all have opportunities to be overturned by <hes> other Congress members and senators from different states <hes> I think that's very unfair so if we we look at a Florida residents and pass a local law law pretty much stands right here in DC where we pass local laws and we've been tried many times before <hes> has opportunity to be overturned by folks who don't even live or work work here <hes> like seven seven hundred thousand residents. Who Do it's interesting? You mentioned earlier. Jemmy that when you live in D._C.. You're sort of surrounded by politics all the time but do you think that this lack of representation actually help I hope sort of sort of disenfranchise people I mean literally disenfranchises them but also sort of keeps them from wanting to be fully engaged in the politics in the government that they're surrounded by all the time for sure. I think that it'd benefit. It's a lot of people to make sure that he is not a state. <hes> there's a reason why you hear Mitch McConnell and Donald Trump saying that they don't want to say it's because we have vibrant voices in the city. We have people who are are willing to do the work and to fight for what they believe in and it's kind of easy when you don't really have to listen to those voices and you can play big government and just do what you want <hes> with these seven hundred thousand residents and not really listen to their interests Chris <hes> and know that there will be no repercussions and I think that's kind of when we talk about some one hundred thousand residents don't aren't fully engaging in a democracy <hes> they're not really having say and what's happening to their day to day lives live and there's a reason Republicans and different officials like this and they want this to continue to be the status quo so I truly do believe that they want to see residents to walk around. See the monuments the White House the Capitol building and at the end of the day not have the space or placing any of these institutions. I think in addition to being I think what would make these. She is not not the political town that we all but I. I think we make these. Here's the Koch embraces must've seven hundred plus thousand live here but the perception that we always get especially when you hear it on the news. Is that people in Washington that there's people in Washington that those people aren't the only the people who who come here once once a month Invo here at the Capitol Hill but those people in Washington <hes> and the perception of what it is is is totally like fraught. We also have a cartoon embrace the daily lifestyle of being in D._C.. Resident ooh <hes> the much bigger than just the White House and the Capitol Yeah and I would love to just be back on that and say people are living their day to day lives in D._C.. And people are going to school in their impacted by the public school system and people have jobs they go to and it's a lot of everyday people living in the in the city who can't really don't have a voice in who are overpowered by individuals who are being sent from their states <hes> in D._c.. And that's kind of blocking the voices of look resident in. I believe it was in two thousand sixteen the D._C.. Residents voted overwhelmingly that they wanted to become a state <hes> but when you look at polls of the country country it seems that for whatever reason public sentiment around the country you know is still for some reason opposed to DC statehood. Do you have any sense of why that disconnect might be an you know of of course there's this very unfair part of it that it's the people outside of D._C.. Who are going to get to determine whether or not D._C.? Becomes a state I've been the new new office that go into. I think one we got on the family you do any type of pole and that the data's always going to be skew <hes> but to also think that when you when you look at the data and those who did have input. I think the problem is that we're missed that there's misinformation of communication going on right. I think a lot of people don't know the issue that we face. It's in the district. A lot of people don't know the INS and out if some of the stuff that we work through <hes> the there are living residents live and work here and pay more taxes than many other cities and states <hes> but I think what we got to understand. Is that that we we the the whole point is fifty. One campaigning is not the only go out and talk about fifty one votes in the Senate but also to talk about why we should be the fifty per state <hes> and then as having these conversations about some of the issue that exist in D._c.. Is some of the barriers that we face with D._C.. Residents oppose will start to change once we start to continue to make the movements and inform people would actually means <hes> to be a D. C. Resident Yeah and I think that's one of the reasons why I really loved. I loved being on this campaign. Just because we traveled to different states and yeah sometimes we do get to talk to presidential candidates but that's not most of our time this time we're interacting with local residents of Iowa and local residents of South Carolina and we get to explain hey I was born and raised in D._C.. I'm a normal American citizen I do this. I'm just like you. I'm not a U._S.. Senator I'm not from a family of hockey representative. I'm truly untypical Kohl U._S.. American citizen and I don't have the same rights as you and once you come from that perspective when we have been talking to local residents in different fates in regions people really connect with us and all the responses that I haven't has been given is of course like I think you should be able to have the same form of political representation as I do and once we get that narrative out there and we we finally get people to disconnect Washington from Capitol Hill and the White House House and from actually the people who live here in the local residents then I think we can bridge that gap and the polling will go a completely different direction but before that happens you can't ask questions and with no formal background so al also important to note that this was also the first very first national poll ever done on DC state <hes> and I think the positive to that is that there that we also see that the conversation started nationally right. I think that as good that. We have folks talk about this. Does Movement Issue Nationally Kelly. I just want to add that when we look at some of the stuff that goes through our Congress <hes> and look at stuff like the government shutdown that cost the DC region one point six billion dollars just to operate <hes> <hes> doing the government shutdown that had no expenses on us <hes> when we look at things where the the budget our federal prisons where we'll look in the B. Pill back on and that was was overturned by the Republican Party. I think those issues were D._C.. Could have had a voice then when we look at things like Dhaka knows other things <hes> those issue that D._C.. Could have a voice in the Senate we did it. <hes> and I think that's important to note that these close votes that affect all Americans whether you're a d. c. resident where the Arkansas resident and so on those issues affect us as well but yet we don't have a voice of that so you mentioned talking to presidential candidates and asking them for support. Can you talk a little bit about that. What you're doing there and in which candidates who've come to talk to we got the puck the list <hes> <hes> a lot of them <hes> we so far got the support of eleven presidents you candidate some notable ones like people mayor people that just <hes> Senator Elizabeth Warren being out on the field? I've had the opportunity to talk to personally Senator Harris Senator Booker and comes more and it's been really nice a lot. The presidential candidates supported D._C.. Becoming St however we want them to support the specific <hes> fifty one votes in the Senate because we're trying to give a specific Wickford D._c.. Become a state yes. It's fine and Dandy that she supported okay but let's make it happen. Would you support this <hes> fifty one votes in the Senate being the means and ways to get to that so having that specific conversation what presidential candidates it's a little tricky <hes> and it really shows who is <hes> an for the long haul and who really wants to see it happen <hes> and happened swiftly and who's kind of scared by that specific measure. No I mean some folks that we also got on board. Were folks like representative. Ryan <hes> Governor Bulla <hes> representative John Delaney Governor Inslee Andrew Yang Mayor de Blasio and governor Hickenlooper Eric's while well. He's not in the race anymore but those are so folks that supported fifty one votes in the Senate for for fifty first State <hes> when we talked to folks like like Michael Bennett he wasn't in favor of breaking the Filibuster to get fifty one votes in the Senate when we we talked to Cory Booker he he tells us he supports D._C.. State of the fifty one votes in the Senate or something he needs to think about <hes> so the thing I think we can do fifty one votes for a Supreme Court justices and we can do fifty one votes to give people access to the full democracy they there right now in the House Eleanor Holmes Norton who is the nonvoting a member of Congress from D._C.. Has introduced legislation. It's H._R.. Fifty one and <hes> and there's a ton of CO sponsors all Democrats of course but but what will happen as of right now is far. It's everyone can tell us that the house may very well past that this calendar year but then it will go to the Sunday where like everything else that the house passes it will just languish so is the idea than that once the once there are fifty one senators who would approve this. I'm going to go out on a limb and guests. They would all be Democrats but who knows maybe maybe bipartisanship will come back to the country that then then the Senate would be able to do with those those fifty one votes yeah. That's kind of our mission kind of our goal. We've seen that <hes> Republicans will do anything in their favor to push this back as far. Ars they can and that's why we're specifically trying to break that much because with that in place is just prolongs the process I think when you even when you think about the introduction of H._R.. Fifty one one I think the good thing is that yes she does have over two hundred sponsors on this. I mean years ago. This wasn't the case. This is actually a record number so I think the positive side to look at it they yes we do not typical that thank you shopped in the house must have passed but the good thing is that there's a wreck number that sponsors and there's a record number of people talking about D._C.. Statehood <hes> and then when you look at things like the Senate Mitch McConnell made an exception to the ruse to to <hes> to give the nominees from trump nominees to the supreme court access to the Supreme Court by giving them fifty one votes right so then those things that we should be doing not not not to go around the political conversation but those are things we should be doing for democracy the and giving folks like there's not only Democrats who live here. There's also Republicans live at the point is not a Democrat Republican issues humanitarian and public public issue that we ought basis rather than <hes> I think again we pay roots are couscous like <hes> American neighbors Merlin Virginia but we also have the same rights opportunities like yeah so we really just need a we know that Republicans are pushing back. We need the Democratic <hes> we need Democrats to be very revolt <hes> and to fight for the right for democracy in our country in that means to not let Mitch McConnell do try to push back in the Senate. If it gets passed by that House we need bold <hes> Democrat leaders to get in there and an actually make sure that <hes> we can vote on what are some concrete things you would like people who are listening to this to to to to help out your 'cause. I bet we would like them. One to inform now only themselves thousand issue <hes> some of the stuff that we face the D._C.. Residents also to talk about it to the people that live within their communities and also to their representatives. I think the squeaky wheel gets the oil you go thank once we continue to continue that conversation continue not X. Y.. Continue to do the research then then the oil you keep going in where in the message keeps going so I'll like folks to inform themselves on the issues but also to be part of the issue one thing to talk about. It was awesome thing to be a part of the recall so we will live close to be part of the call so visit the website of fifty one fifty one or to look more into the work that we're doing and the fact that we're making yeah and if you wanted to take a step further <hes> after informing yourself contact in your house than it is in Europe senators because one of the reasons why D._C.. Is Fine mistakes because we don't have that advocate on. We don't have someone that we can write a letter to or contact from our state so if you would contact your house representative for your state or your counting your district and your senators and let them know that you support D._C.. Come in the state and you think that your district or your state should as well that would mean a light you know and that helps out by getting the conversation started on the hill so that would also be nice the millennials and young folks <hes> who has of <hes> twitter twitter as well at fifty one fifty one so just keep up with that and learn from issues from that platform as well as you've been going around and talking to people are there particular arguments that you have heard against DC being a state and or against since two using the threshold fifty one senators to to make this happen. I don't know if they always say I. I've heard of the issue. I think we heard a lot of misinformation we here. We have a lot of people don't want US TO BE A. The correct so we should so yeah it's a lot of information <hes> for sure that's kind of it. It's not really loud D._C.. Residents fighting <hes> to have more rights and have more community but when they hear different things being thrown out that they haven't been able to solve in that kind of becomes the issue regarding what will happen <hes> if their lives would change in a significant way so that's kind of all that we're hearing we overheard fuck you totally. I mean Lina. I can't think of any good reasonable arguments for it not to be a state but and you have your your logo is the what the state would look like as a state as people could see. It's kind of a diamond with a chunk cut out of it yeah. That's awesome just like the shape of the district right now. It's already a well known symbol you know so but I love that interpretation that she gave the fifty one hundred fifty one organization has a lot of partners in this in this fight to a lot of people who want to help make sure that that D._C. becomes a state and is well represented in a a lot of ones that I think would be very familiar to people indivisible and March for our lives D._C.. Vote Mukasey for America so this is a movement that has a growing support behind it. Is there anything anything else that you would like to make sure that we talk about or the people know about your movement. I would just like to say that the momentum of this campaign in this political movement has really been expiring. We are now seeing hang on people take onto this not only in DC but around the country and we just WanNa make sure that people get there right information people can always contact us enjoin and that's kind of my view for also who those folks who are listening now I will have to be sponsor of this for free to reach out to us front whether facebook twitter or I'll <hes> website fifty one fifty one. We're open to it but also when we think about folks like the Iowans for DC stay we need more chocolates like that across the states <hes> they start their own shoppers and and keep going and I also like to comment that <hes> a lot of different political movements have always been happening in DC <music> but since we don't really have a voice nationally they're not really exposed but for example right now there's also a very well no movement going on called don't Meet D._C.. From local residents who are dealing with <hes> issues such as triplication so if you would just like to do any research about D._C.. And what it's like to actually be a local resident <hes> and not T._v.. Of Heart of I got what we call Washington dealing with the capital. I mean doing the White House. <hes> a lot of local wrapping are doing great work as well. The world people are Washington excellent and I think everyone should also go by one of your tote bags that says no more taxation without representation. We fought the whole war over that so it's important people all right well Tamala Donnie. Thank you so much for coming on and talking to me. I think this is a super important issue that not enough people are thinking about and I I hope that everyone will check out your website and follow you guys on twitter and facebook and then talk to everyone you know I've got now on my bag a pin. That's got fifty one and the little shape of <hes> the the diamond with the EH debate. Take it out of it so I'm hoping more and more people will start asking me about it and I can tell them all about how excited I am about D._C.. Statehood we're going to be in Detroit thrown so <hes> so we're coming to a city near you. Follow how feedback elsewhere pages and everything now give a personal brag my twitter and everything is at Jamal hosts Jay Male H. O. L. T. Z.. That's me I'm talking about D._C.. In DC statehood an issue that exists here now city all the time all right excellent.

D._C DC Senate Washington Senator Congress representative Mitch McConnell White House Dartmouth College Jamal Hayao D._C.. Supreme Court Kelly stalking Senator Elizabeth Warren twitter
Apple Health: Once the companys ambition, now has stalled

Marketplace Tech with Molly Wood

06:17 min | 1 year ago

Apple Health: Once the companys ambition, now has stalled

"This marketplace podcast is brought to you by ultimate software dedicated to putting people first with innovative solutions for h._r. Payroll and talent management learn more at ultimatesoftware dot com ultimate software people first and by smart water. Smart water is on a mission to add fresh thinking to the world. That's why they created two new ways to hydrate smart water alkaline alkaline with nine plus p. h. Helps keep you hydrated while you're on the move and smart water antioxidant with added selenium helps you find balance for your body and mind and now you can order smart water by saying hang alexa order smartwater yourself will thank yourself smart water. That's pretty smart apple c._e._o. Tim cook once said this about the company's unease legacy what was apple's greatest contribution to mankind it will be about health but the health efforts may have stalled from american public media. This is marketplace tech demystifying the digital economy. I'm ali would <music> while they're back in two thousand eighteen. It seemed like apple was really going to upend the health industry. The company announced an app that could monitor your heart rate and detect irregularities. It was bringing your medical records to your iphone. It even launched its own healthcare clinics employees and families which people saw as a trial balloon for understanding the industry but this week c._n._b._c.'s christina far reported that several people have left the apple health division. We called her up for quality assurance. The segment where we take a deeper look at big tech story. She told us the employees were frustrated. It over the company's lack of organization and ambition so there's definitely been some tension in timely about you know where to focus on their sicker patients who are definitely definitely more costly to the system or just to build more of these sort of wellness tools for the every day us <hes> <hes> who may or may not deeply care or even need these products products and when you have seen them say. Let's go in the medical direction. I think there's also been tension about how they roll out those products because it may not make sense wants to have a splashy apple launch just like they do with any other tool or feature for a product that is more medical and scope <hes> that typically you see in the medical we'll space <hes> much more focused and targeted launches that include a lot of conditions and a lot of transparency and not just really isn't natural to apple right and isn't it fair to say it shouldn't be too much of a surprise that apple wouldn't necessarily pivot hard in the direction of really overhauling the health care system since you know i mean you could really argue that. Its primary focus is to create features and or services that sell hardware. That's how it makes. Its money absolutely and some employees recognized that and perhaps those is the the employees that remain happy at the company and a thriving there <hes> but if you're a company like apple you're one of the largest if not the largest company in the world right now now and there are people who are very ambitious who want to do something more <hes>. Many of these people either had a medical background where they joined apple health because they had a passion for the space. Maybe it was their own brush with the healthcare system or a loved one and they want to do something more and so for those people i can imagine it being difficult difficult well. An apple is not the only company who is sort of tried to come at the healthcare industry in some way and yet it feels like a lot of those efforts have stalled. I wonder do you think the tech industry runs into the health industry and goes wow this is harder than we thought yes <hes> and the cultures between these two sorts of industries is so different in medicine the biggest <hes> idea that sort of everybody believes in is that we should do know home which is really kind of a risk of us in slightly conservative philosophy in attack. It's all about you know moving fos and breaking things and these two visions for how to move forward don't necessarily work <hes> when there are pushed together dr christina far is a health and tech reporter for c._n._b._c. and now for some related links we of course have a link to christina's piece about the apple departures over at marketplace tech dot org as for other big tech companies representatives from amazon alphabet apple and microsoft met with big healthcare providers in d._c. Last month a yahoo story about those meetings has a nice round up of the efforts by the four companies in the healthcare space and it notes that microsoft alphabet specifically are all about using artificial intelligence for future healthcare developments whether it's disease detection or reducing adducing costs with better healthcare records keeping however on wednesday the co founder of google's a._i. Lab called deep mind was apparently placed on leave <unk> over some controversial projects. One of those controversies came in two thousand seventeen hospital in london was working with deep mind on a project to help doctors diagnose patients ask who might be at risk of kidney problems but you know how a._i. Requires a lot of data and the hospital was accused of illegally sharing one point six million patient records leads with the mind and a little plug here over at wired dot com. I've got a column this week about that exact problem a._i. And machine learning need a lot a lot of data to do things that can literally save lives but we're a little sketchy about handing it over these days because of well stories like that one matt that party and stephanie who's produced marketplace tech tro is our senior producer sarah gear and robin edgar engineer the show. I'm ali would have a great weekend everyone. This is a._p._n. This marketplace podcast is brought to you by intercom income. What's more of the nice people visiting your website to give give you money so they took a little chat bubble in the corner of a website and packed it with conversational bots product tours n._p._s. Surveys all sorts of things that amplify your team and help you reach more nice people in our comm- customer unity got forty five percent more loyal users with intercom in just twelve months go to intercom dot com slash podcast to start making money from real time chat then see everything else intercom can do. That's intercom dot com slash podcast.

apple ali Tim cook microsoft tech reporter yahoo google london christina stephanie d._c sarah gear
The Dave McKenna Edition

Slate's Hang Up and Listen

52:45 min | 1 year ago

The Dave McKenna Edition

"The following message is brought to you by Samuel Adams Samuel Adams Summer Ale captures. What's best about the summer hazy golden easygoing days out in the Sun? Samuel Adams has tweaked the recipe to make it even more summary a bit more citrus and more subtle space and a lot more refreshing start your summer off rate with Samuel Adams Summer Ale the Boston Beer Company Boston Massachusetts Savor the flavor responsibly the following podcast contains James Explicit language. Hello I'm Josh Le`Veon's plates national editor and the author of the book the Queen Mislaid Sports podcast hang up and listen for the week of July twenty second two thousand eighteen. This is usually the point at which I tell you all the various sports things we're gonNA talk about this. Show is not going to be like those other shows last week. I went on the long form podcast to talk about my so-called journalism career at the end of that episode. I came to believe that I needed to do a long interview with someone about their journalism career in the hope of starting some kind of lucrative Ponzi scheme joining me and the Washington D._C.. Studio Not Stephan fats us. He's off at the scrabble championship this week we we miss him but joining me this week special guest expecting him to bare his soul in exchange for three small bottles of water. It is dead spends Dave McKenna. Welcome Dave Oh my pleasure author of the Queen. You think that's a little to style professional. Use It from now on to I like doing sounds. You're going to ratio me because we're going to talk so much more about you than about me me your favorite topic so I wanted to start by telling people how we met. I started at city paper in two thousand two which was my first journalism job and this story actually becomes a little bit about the fallibility of memory because this didn't happen until two thousand and three but I was opening up the paper it was a requirement that we read read the paper every week makes sense and there was a column in there but the city paper sports columnist and it was about Louisiana quarterbacks because Washington at that point had this Guy Patrick Ramsey little known little remembered guy he went to two lane and so- Mckenna here wrote about the long and storied history of quarterbacks from Louisiana and among them was paid manning who went to Isidor Neumann school which is the school that I went through eighth grade so it's a subject that I have some personal all knowledge and history with and in the column but Kenner wrote that Newman is outside New Orleans and so this greatly offended may how could this erroneous fact about the school that I went to get into the paper that I worked data clearly. The Guy who has writing it was a clown and so there is a correction all will link to it on our show page so this correction can be memorialize. There's a correction that says now actually David kind of got this wrong. Newman is within the city limits of New Orleans wants. What are your memories of that APP said I think about that's how our relationship started and it's been a long and loving relationship ever since it's like a couple that meets after one runs over the other car because corrections were back in the day corrections? Were very very big deal so Eric Mboya who has the editor of city paper at the time. You didn't work in office different experience but when we had a correction in our stories at the next story meeting we had to explain to the staff why we got something wrong and it's a good lesson like you didn't want to have to be the guy who did that at the meeting but I can affirm the corrections where a bad and they put your name like they said Dave McKenna got it wrong and it didn't say directed by Josh Levin and mccown he was right. I couldn't argue so I oh you know I couldn't hate him. He got me but we started on a correction which again it was a good rom. com meet cute so when I started at the city paper I hadn't had journalism job before I hadn't lived in DC before and part of our job was to find stories to go out into the city and figure out what's going on. Get Get story ideas and again report them at a meeting to the whole staff which again was terrifying but one of the ways that I learned about D._C.. Especially somebody who's interested in sports was from McKenna both breath from reading your columns and from you actually driving me around like we'd go to games or go to shows and you would point stuff out and so I I just want to start by praising you and that I I was lucky to ended up at the place that had the best sports columnist and America which I firmly believe number two. You're always so nice to me even though I was such an all the but that correction but I wanted to start by asking so one of the first memories that I have is. I don't remember where we're going. Be pointing out you line arena to me and saying this was the spot where the Beatles played their first show in the U._S.. This happened in nineteen sixty four. You were really young then you grew up and the area just like maybe that specifically but also generally like. How did you know stuff like that? How did you acquire your knowledge of basically everything that happened in D._C.? You're you're way too nice but <hes> but back to me the <hes> I am from here. I just was incredibly interested in my hometown. It's an and not just for provincial reasons. It's a it's an amazing for a guy who like sports like me and politics. If you grow up here you have to care about all politics and there's no like the way sports in politics and well specifically the civil rights movement intersect in Washington D._C.. Fascinated me and the history of sports in Washington D._C.. And from when you were a kid or like for it was well I mean I I'm from here so I got the things I remember things. I'm interested in and the Beatles clearly was something I was interested and for many of the same reasons that even though the sports star the stuff that I ended up writing about the city paper ended up trying to find stories that should have been told long before I ever typed and and the Beatles thing like it was in a building in Washington Coliseum also called you <hes> in a bad neighborhood and it was just forgotten it was like when I took you there we go inside. It was like a truck. It was like used as a parking lot for a while and before that it was just a trash. I don't know an R._E._I.. It's R._E._I.. Because antidevelopment there's no but I mean but it was in. What was you know at a neighborhood that was forgotten <hes> at the time and just overgrown and everything it was and stuff like that bothered me and so I tried to you know that that was as we take anyone who came to town I would take him to this is where the beat is like? How could you know there was no there was no commemoration? There was nothing there was just a trash for literally a trash dump for years. They kept trashing the bill. I promise I'm not going to keep gassing you up for the whole podcast Kasper that was actually like legit kind of inspirational to me to know that they're as somebody whose job it was to look for stories and I think as journalists we often complain about how hard it is but like this place literally were the Beatles played their first show. Oh <hes> in the U._S. was trashed on just the fact that there were all these stories and D._C.. There were hitting that hadn't been written about there. Were there for us to find was like I've remember that moment and you're able to put stories like that in the paper most weeks sometimes you had you know right about why there weren't any black kickers you kind of repeat that over the years there were there were some recurring themes the visit but <hes> you know that one is one that stands out to me and you also mentioned D._C.. In the civil rights movement another one that had a big impression on me was the story about Elgin Baylor and how when he was a spin garn high school in the fifties black school this was one of the greatest players of all time was never written about by the Washington Post never in Elgin Baylor thing is something I think about constantly. He's The archetype of story I was looking for because the guy who should have been had a park named form and statues in D._C.. was just totally forgotten. <hes> I we be I mean I literally get thinking about him the historic because if you talk to people his age around here who saw him play or people in the N._B._A.. When he first came in before his knees went on he still has numbers ended up being amazing but he was he's a God to these people and you know he was the greatest thing basketball overseeing the first guy to hang time was he invented it <hes> and yet he grew up in a city <hes> where he couldn't play in the Barclays describing the stories about his boyhood? Home was a few blocks from the U._S.. Capitol building and D._C. was so segregated that he was not allowed to play in the park across the street from his house. It news was segregated in a similar fashion where you know a white guy named Jimmy Wexler broke the. City scoring record for <hes> for schoolboy hoops in a game and he got he got what he called a super bowl headline like the kind you was a banner headline across the length of the page and Elgin Baylor broke Wexler is record and in paragraph six of a story about another game. I think Wexler said that his headline was bigger than any actual story that was ever in about Baylor. Yeah and Wexler considered himself a fraud. He was a wonderful guy to talk to great stories and they ended up having a match game against each other where he saw and he said you know Baylor made me you know showed. Was that a game that was conducted in secret or was it actually played open to the public. It was open to the public and they charge money but it was only the D._C.. Schools tried to ban the public schools which were <hes> then legally segregated all white or all black a white kid from Anacostia name McCaffrey who ended up being a sports writer he was in in school and he was the organizer he got players for the white team and when the school system found found out about the game they threatened to expel him from school as a senior and he did it anyway and <hes> sell the tyrrell junior high school and in front of an entirely black crowd well that was the only time Baylor had played against a white guys in an official organized is game. He played against him a playground. It's like people all over town. The best players would travel to Kelly Miller Park over in northeast Washington to try to see this this legend Elgin Baylor to see what he was like and they ended up <hes> they charged money people hanging from the rafters for doc every in New Orleans and the late sixties early seventies might add actually played in a game when he was a new man in fact circling back well outside of my dad played in a secret game against <hes> a black school because they weren't allowed allowed to have integrated basketball games even for public consumption. It had to be like a kind of jamboree practice like with no crowd so it's interesting to me that in D._C.. This wasn't allowed in in the normal course of things but when they had this like very rare match game they did actually have it for public consumption and sell tickets and another thing about Elgin Baylor that makes them perfect for for my kind of stories. He graduated high school in Nineteen fifty four <hes> and two months before I believe two months <hes> that game was held that he had Jimmy Watson was to two months before Brown versus. The board of Education made the sort of segregation that D._C.. Enforced very rigidly really illegal and D._C.. To its credit after a heinous it's heinous history. They did implement they were the first big city to implement <hes> the to try to follow Brown board of Education and correct the wrongs they immediately integrated the schools <hes> by the next school year which created a bunch of incredible interesting sports stories also I racial I so you wrote the thing for deadspin after the Ralph Northam black face thing happens about your childhood and Falls Church and the things that you remember and didn't remember so when you're talking about segregation and racism in this area how much of that were you conscious of and how much of it is stuff. The only realise in retrospect like part of your interest in these stories like your own blindness to at growing absolutely absolutely I falls church. Virginia is the <hes> believe six miles from the border of D._C.. And again when I was growing up in the late sixties like what I wrote about this neighborhood called James Lee the movie theater that went to on the border right next to James Leader neighborhood and <hes> you know the blacks blacks could not go back to enter the back the we always heard they had to go into the back of the theater if they could come in at all and <hes> and the roads were not paved and even as a after the turn of this century the two thousands I went over there and the roads were paved in James Lee neighborhood and this is this is again mere miles from the the the border of Washington D._C.. <hes> so stuff like that it definitely is. I mean it's a fascinating story. No matter where you come from that you know people would treat people this way. They could get away with it so I'm sure that is part of what drew me like you know. Some sort of this sounds to create value. You know some sort of trying to write a raw to tell a story that wasn't told because of a for all the wrong reasons. It wasn't all yeah I mean that is something that was like pretty explicit and your coverage of Gary as we talked about game as with you on the podcast last year. The one armed black legend of D._C.. Sports who died last year Helgeson Baylor was another one of these legends as you said there's a big difference between them in terms of fame and renown but also I think a big difference in that Gary was willing and happy to talk about about his experiences with you and with other people and Elgin Baylor until very recently was not really willing to go there. Do you have any sense of why that was for him. When you did finally interview him did he talk about why he kind of hesitated to talk about his upbringing in D._c.? He said it hurt you know the he'd rather deal with the comfortable parts of his life than the parts where he couldn't play basketball and the park across the street from his house. It's merely because of the color of his skin and you know this is a guy who had to face his greatness eventually in life because he really was amazing special athlete who was not recruited by any schools in D._C.. And I I mean I think that's why he didn't talk in whereas Gary came back to Elgin Baylor left here in fifty four and hey with Gary Maze they went to college of Idaho and three guys from D._C.. Another kid from Dunbar whose name escapes me at the time right now but <hes> they take a train to Idaho and they take this college of Idaho that no one ever heard of they go into having undefeated undefeated season in nineteen fifty four five. I think Baylor then went on to great stuck. He went to College of Seattle University and took them to the final four and then Minneapolis Lakers Lakers and a hall of fame career. I think he would rather stick to to those days than today's when he left D._C.. Behind like mentally and physically and gary came back and was like a D._c.. Guy And there were people here who you would talk to for your calms but also just like around in life who remembered him so this was the place swear some terrible things were done to Gary Maze but also where he was a legend yeah and he was he was a happy guy like air. You say it was the way it was like a teenager doesn't think about fighting the system as much as you know getting through the day finding a game him and <hes> it was the way it was used to say he also graduated in nineteen fifty four. 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This is another thing you wrote for deadspin watching Mohammed. Ali was a big thing for you. On Wide World of sports was that kind of your I like sports memory or is that just the thing that stands out because he was the greatest of all time it will. He was such a big deal. I can't really explain if you weren't there. How big a deal he was? I mean he he. He was an alien no one not only for his handsomeness in the beauty of his punches but for as you know there's politics no one did stuff like that before holly no one spoke up and he made speaking up as big a part of his persona as his jab. I mean so if you grow up with he was an unforgettable presence. I don't know that he meant anymore to meet any anybody else my age you know he he was just special. Was He calling your household because he opposed the Vietnam War was that my parents were very lefties and he was a hero to my dad yeah speaking of lefty sports. Sports things. was there any discussion or consciousness they. You're a call when you're growing up about the <hes> Washington N._F._l.. Team nickname no it was not on the radar. I don't think anywhere I mean very small circles. I think in the early seventies it became an issue internally whether they changed the lyrics of the fight song because some native Americans had raised the issue with them but to me. I was totally blind to that until very late in life. I didn't think about that at all. I mean blind spot and you're a big Maryland basketball fan huge Maryland basketball. Tom McMillan being an asshole on twitter. Recently I have not but I I saw he was with Epstein trump and he's in that video of them partying nineteen ninety-two McMillan Epstein and trump so tom McMillan is the legendary endure Maryland basketball player who became a politician. The thing I was referring to is that he is carrying water for the N._C._A._A.. Talking about how N._C._A._A. Athletes make more money after taxes than administrators this is this is very hurtful at because I remember <hes> the cover of him in as a high school kid in Pennsylvania sports illustrated showing up on my door when I'm like seven or eight years old and there's Tom McMillan the cover from Mansfield Pennsylvania this you know he was all world. He was the highest the biggest recruit everybody plays. He ends up Maryland the school when baseball left town in nineteen seventy one there was the skins and the Maryland basketball. They were the big deals there was the Georgetown basketball program was nothing at the time there was nothing else. Maryland basketball was massive and Tom. McMillan Millon was the first superstar play there and so he he was a big deal and so finding him taking bad positions parting with data files is not not a great thing I mentioned some recurring McKenna features slash columns one of my all time favorites is the remember the titans ally series trademark so t c Williams high schools and Virginia. How is it around where you grew up yeah not far not far and <unk> Herman been played by Denzel Washington and the movie is portrayed as a guy who brought re racial reconciliation to the school in this community and starting when you're at the city paper and continuing deadspin you wrote about how the story story is not that simple <hes>? Can you explain to people what the story is slow to me. Boon was like he was a legendary not nice guy. He lost his job in the real world. That's not represented at all in the movie though he's presented Eh as Gandhi and the truth is he lost his job for you know after accusations of hitting kids and he went away and shame and it's been this movie comes up and the movie history has replaced the actual history of the school like the truth is T._C.. Waves and nineteen nineteen seventy-one was by far the largest school in Virginia. It was the the there was no racial integration. There were three schools that had already been racially integrated years earlier or consolidated but consolidation Dacian wasn't as romantic a term in Hollywood is integration so they keep saying integrated and it's just hokum like the racial makeup of the T._C.. Williams football team years before Boone got. There was essentially the same so it would have been bizarre if they didn't win because they were the biggest do they go. Look you know look I. I am kind of obsessed with this but you go look up didn't they were supposed to crush everybody and they destroyed everybody. They were you know it's one of the greatest football teams of high school football teams of all time and at like the defensive end had sixty sixty four sacks or something like how many of those came when you're playing offensive tackle because the numbers are skewed from that era a little bit there is kind of a larger theme there of debunk. Ary You know some of your suv is wanting to elevate stories that haven't been told another part of it has wanted to tear stories down that have been told too much and this went falls into the latter category I mean because boone went on to I mean he he became a public speaker Acre and he was getting at one point was getting twenty five thousand dollars a pop to to retail his life as if it was the characters life to play the character you know and as his own he adopted Denzel Washington's bio the character played by Denzel Washington's this is zone and including the goodness and that just you know I that bugged me because no one ever looked everyone just would repeat the movie and there was a guy who has like the Herman Boone Truth there who would talk to you for all these calls. The guy was like very upset. I don't remember the details off to fill. The man was very upset that this guy was going around parading around like he was you know <hes> that shitless still out his name's Greg Maddox he lives in Alexandria Virginia. He played played for Boon. <hes> during Boone's last year the year boone got canned for his treatment of players and yet he's still at it like because because I'm sadly <hes> a lot of the they're they're dropping like flies that members of this team at least three deaths in the last two two or three months have been of remember the titans that little real world people which and these guys became you know they're big deals around here. Can we talk about heavy metal parking lot. <hes> I love heavy metal parking lot before you get it to that. You have told me that you think that the movie dazed and confused as a documentary. It is my my my upbringing. Yes incredible genius while we're like their early concerts. They remember going to well. The first show I ever saw without supervision was at R._F._K.. Stadium it was a Ted nugent aerosmith Leonard Skinner and Nazareth. You think the bill's going to stop but then it just keeps going it was like you know dirtball <unk> dirtball woodstock it was unbelievable and like and to this day the nine dollars and fifty cents which was the same price. I paid to see led Zeppelin the next year which I tell do you understand how inflation works like that's not. That's not really cheap dollars and fifty cents or actually those aw I for Nassar store I was in this. I'll try to tell this quick but I was in Fort Lauderdale last year and it turns out Fort Lauderdale is the hub of all cruise ships and <hes> there was a rock and roll cruise rock and roll legends crews leaving leaving leaving for so I'm in the lobby of the hotel and I see these old guys and and <hes> I know about the crews and so I say <hes> who who you guys and they say we're Nazar. Oh my first show that was that was Nazareth and Lehrer skinner has and I'm telling the story like kind of excited and that like they're looking at me like they see they're having to face their the past like this. If this battle guy babbling about seeing them as a kid like looking what I look like now you know what would they must anyway. The look on their face was priceless by the end of my story I was I was giggling. How much they despised despised me? At least somebody remembered them. Come on now threat like have a heart so this was a big part of your growing up was going to R._F._K.. Stadium and seeing address the defining Merman and skewered when skinner now they kind of stand for something that negative you know confederate flag has become a symbol of hate and <hes> an and they they wave at other fans wave at proudly and stuff so that you can't really have fun enjoying them but they were they were great in nineteen seventy six so heavy metal parking lot is made by this Guy Jeff Krulak Local D._C.. Filmmaker it if you haven't seen it. It's very short you should watch it. It's the best fifteen minutes theo parking lot of the cap center and Landover at a Judas priest show and there is a quote and a story you read about it for dad's bed where a guy says that thing is these citizen can of wasted teenage mental illness take a great quote and a great like the whole scene that is an amazing time capsule and Jeff cruella another guy who should be way more famous than he is. The Guy who made that just had the idea to capture the moment he went out there with with cameras and <hes> and they it tells you a lot about America at the time of the economy and the diets of people because this is metal was the kind of the blue collar music and everyone's they don't have their shirts on and everyone of them has ripped and skinny and nowadays you know just before for the corn corn infused diets that we all are on now <hes> they look. They look everybody. You know we're not ripped. We're not ripped anymore. That's the thing that stands out to you. It's like you're you watch. This and you're like there should be a heavy metal parking lot. Like <hes> exercise video that's that's what it looks like. Do you like some people will be like wow these guys are real dirtbags well. They're they're incredible shape dirtbags shape for this in the eighties this inspirational as it just kind of you so you did and continue to do freelance concert for for the past. Is it just like an accident of history that you ended up writing about sports rather than music as your main gag or what do you think the well would have run dry. If you're just doing music stuff every week I'd never thought about that but I just have always been able to write what I want to write about and those are the two things that of my youth sports and music that I was very passionate about obsessed with hang on a record stores and sporting events so you basically we never grown up your over grandchild. have any of US I all I know is myself and yeah I have not grown up at all. I mean the same things that made me clench my fists as a kid. Make me clench my fist. Now the story about the kids kids that ran away to meet Elvis. Was that a D._C.. Thing I don't remember it was so yeah because he drove forty fifth street northwest yeah. The girls have gotten a card night took took off. That story killed me man it was it killed me. I think how it was just so cool. The balls it took for these you know fourteen and sixteen year old girls I believe they were to steal their parents car and try to get to Memphis to see Elvis Presley and this is when he was dangerous. This is in right after he <hes> he's on Ed Sullivan and introduced to mainstream America yeah he's dangerous and they're gonNA go meet him. I thought that was credible. This is and it ruined it ruined one of their lives to I mean they both got kicked out of school for a large huge local story and <hes> it changed change their lives and it Wa- it so there was a lot of sadness to it. If I remember this this one right this was one that you like knew about and talked about for a long time before you wrote like I remember hearing the lake McKenna Anecdote version before this was for the Post magazine right correct yeah. Do you remember how you heard about that. was that just like a thing that you read timer. It was going through archives for Elgin Baylor Stories. Oh really yes it was it was an and <hes> and seeing that was in nineteen fifty-six clip that we just happened to be one of the same newspapers and I saw that so I wrote a book called the Queen you may remember from the entrance to the pod crates. Look get it get it and there's this site newspapers dot com in addition to like microfilm and stuff that I would get get at the library of Congress for stuff that wasn't digitally archived and just the stuff that you find adjacent to other stuff that you're leaves work. Yes I've found so many other leads and so many other stories that way and I would encourage people just to like go on that the site just browse around and it feels to me. I don't know if you're the great there were just so many more stories in the paper back then just their jammed type small and they're jammed up against each other and stuff. That's like enticing but not not really fleshed out and you think like all right. I need to dig in and find out what really happened here but I'm a girl running away to meet Elvis who would not be enthused by that and the newspaper archives like newspapers Dot Com D._C.. Public Library doesn't amazing newspaper Arca there my new record stores you just go in there and browse your just keep looking in something something. That'll get your interest every few seconds. I think that I also have a very distinct memory of when Youtube I became a thing just how obsessed you got with Youtube. You're just too all day long. You had be like looking up like all shows that you went to say and still like that is not a thing that has not abated no not at all because it keeps piling up my my whole every show I mean every band that I saw as a kid hit and I saw everybody by now. I've seen everybody and all the shows from the seventies eighties online. It's an who wouldn't be enthralled by that. So this is why you don't leave your house at all make sense well it is it's funny like I've found this with research stuff. Is that on the one hand so much stuff. I don't WanNa say anything but a lot of stuff that you see that's ever existed has been digitized but if a lot of people to stop at Google and so if it's not on Google it's basically like it doesn't exist even if it's one layer deeper and some of that makes on some of its like subscription services are proprietary stuff but there is a lot of stuff on the Internet that you still have to dig for and that's the part that's fun for me. I don't like writing. I like finding stuff. I mean yes it. Procrastination disguises reporting for my stories now just I'd rather be an archives all right <hes>. I'm contractually obligated to ask you about Dan. Snyder the man who made your star Yes did everything. How long were you writing about or when did he by the team nineteen ninety soon so you're writing about him for more than ten years before he sued you direct and the precipitating event was this story in the city paper that Cranky Redskins fans guide to Dan Snyder which was aggregation end of ten years of calms about Snyder an alphabetical format? Some of the entries were Fan Appreciation Day Gimmick used in two thousand six by Snyder to drop people to Fedex field recharge twenty five dollars to park to watch the team scrimmage and hear an address from Vinnie Serrato. The parking charge was not mentioned in the advertisements that team Prius through the event. I only gonNA read one more. which is my all time favorite bankrupt airline peanuts? What Snyder was selling the fans at Fedex field during the two thousand six hundred vendors offered shelled nuts in royal blue and white five ounce bags adorned with the Independence Air logo problem? The airline had gone under about a year earlier. The supplier told Washington city paper that had stopped up shipping the airlines nuts before independence air went out of business a spokesman for the peanut council told city paper that to prevent Rand City the recommended shelf life of a foil bag of out of shelf peanuts was. I'm going to go one year about three months so there's a lot more of these and article but the thing that pissed snyder off. Was it like an accumulation over ten years was he. Did he hate you before this yeah yeah he just wanted to get me fired I and then during that the case which was so surreal to be involved in that but like lawyers had me look up at the archives how many stories I had written and they came up with four hundred eighty eight mentions of stories mentioning dance night. I found appalls even me I found yesterday when I was doing some McKenna research that you can go on -scribed which this tool you can upload documents. There's undocumented was like exhibits. Were part of the trial that your side put up and it's like exhibits two hundred one to two hundred fifty and it's just all like articles. I didn't realize that it had gone as far as you like putting together all these exhibits the case Yeah Oh yeah he bailed right before he was going to get crushed. He was going to get crushed a week later by the courts so he just ran away. Let's rewind a bit. Did you know that Snyder was awful. From the moment he bought the team like how much of it was known or where people kind of optimistic there's this new rich guy and he's going to make the team great incredible optimism. Nobody knew because he was a guy named Milstein who was considered to fraudulent Milstein won. The bid was kind of Howard Milstein. He was awarded the team mm-hmm but the N._F._l.. Rejected them as too fraudulent so then the Jack and Cook Estate had to come up with another buyer ever N._F._l.. was had a team without an owner. There was all kinds of pressure on everybody and dance neider was going to be the local partner Milstein was from New York and so Dan Snyder is going to be a minority partner so they just kind of gave him the team. Let him him take it over so Milstein. We have him to blame for it but there was definitely optimism. You know local guy he was. He grew up here he you know he talked about his redskins. Belt buckle. He was a fan he was going to spend money at the time when free agency and the N._F._l.. was becoming a huge deal so now definitely optimism and then but then very quickly he he flipped it when he started charging to watch his team practice which was unheard of so many bad had ideas for fans came from Dan. That's one of the first guy to charge for practice. The parking thing I remember was another recurring feature where you also like triangulate between the bad parking stuff with the N._F._l.. Team and with six flags which. Judge senator also likes the different parking schemes kind of feed back and forth between the franchises under told story about Dan Snyder and I I did my best but nobody seemed to care. I think that me is his ownership of six flags which is just a debacle Michael. He tried to squeeze every dime out of everyone who ever went to six flags forty five dollar haircuts. I think it was he. He tried to drive kids haircuts for forty five dollars. Do you think there's a connection between his rapaciousness and Asshole Ish nece and the team being bad because generally those things. You wouldn't think that just being a rapacious jerk would mean the N._F._l.. Team would be bad. It just means that you're like an N._F._l.. Owner it seems like fairly late even if he's like a little bit worse it's it's not like it's a difference in degree not a difference in category. It feels like I think they definitely are tied. I mean by now for sure because people don't want to be associated with him <hes> but at the beginning even his attitude and rapacious is I mean. I don't know if that's the right word that I'm looking for but he thinks he's smarter than everybody. That was the attitude he came in with. He was going to do everything differently and he surrounds himself with yes-men unlike the people that are in charge of running this franchise. They seem to have been selected for willingness to tell Dan Snyder that he's right about every those who don't don't don't seem to last long the guys who have their own personalities but his system of being being smarter than everybody did not work from the start and that has definitely snowballed to now. No one wants to be around somebody who thinks they're smarter than everybody. <hes> I should've mentioned earlier the storytime with Dave McKenna feature on on deadspin. It's been animated tales and which Dave talks about his life and there is one about the Snyder lawsuit where you talked about being defended by First Amendment Hero Floyd Abrams <hes> th Reality Very Acer area yeah very I've reached my limit on using the word but yeah the Floyd Abrams a guy who I delivered the Washington Post in the early seventies and when First Amendment issues were were huge huge deals with the Pentagon papers and Watergate <hes> really hot topics and Floyd Abrams was the First Amendment lawyer for the Pentagon papers for The New York Times and here I am in a room with him and the first thing he tells me is that <hes> Dan Snyder thinks I'm going to physically assaulting countries totally out of left field and I am incapable of physical successfully physically assaulting anybody. I think I know the answer to this but do you have any the idea where that idea would have come from I do. I think it was a plan because he was getting Snyder was getting the crap beat out of public relations wise and he wanted he had to come up with some. Nobody took Snyder's sightedness. Nobody I don't I don't recall yeah. I mean that nobody who who I talked to. He claims he claimed that you were like attacking his wife. Who has a cancer survivor? He claimed that you <hes> he accused you of anti-semitism because there was breath an illustration devil horns on him. I didn't do the illustration but yeah he he was just throwing everything out there. He just wanted to get me fired and he tried to to squeeze the people on the paper by just throwing everything out about what a bad person I was. They didn't know me at all not that I'm not a bad person just came up with the wrong reasons for why I'm a bad person so he is getting totally killed and he thinks the way when the public decide is to say that you were going to physically all no I think he thought the way to get me to a meeting like that would broker meeting and wants a meeting between us is held. He would say that I apologized for every he would make up something. He was just GonNa make something up about what <hes> went on in that summit and you you <music> now smartly I feel like refuse to me with them because he didn't want to give them ammunition he would have probably when you went to the meeting he probably would have slipped and fallen and accused of pushing pushing over exactly or something he would he would have said I apologize and I wasn't like he didn't even get me for a name misspelling I wasn't I didn't say anything bad about his poor wife so when he drops the suit here. Do you recall exactly what he said he because he couldn't say say that you had apologized or he kinda did he. He was like definitely we've agreed to move on or like. What did he say exactly? I'm not specifically. He definitely made stuff up though he acted like there was some contrition on our part and there was zero contrition on our part <hes> and you have you said and I think the deadspin video at that like this made you like this was this was <hes> to the extent Abbas superstar anyone who knows what right now. I didn't say no any any anyone who knows me. <hes> chances are that's why I think they know something. I've written probably related to Dan Snyder so thanks for the suit. I guess he confirmed what an asshole. He was by doing this so he proved by suing you. Oh keep proved that even to a further degree that everything that you had written was about him was accurate but do wish that that see it had never happened or do you think it was like cool. You got to meet Floyd Abrams and that everyone on the Internet that you're a hero. It's definitely the latter is closer to the truth. Yeah it was it was a great thing had that happened today. You know I was naive and I believed in the system and like I was pre hulk Hogan correct and I knew that his lawsuit was preceded by an attempting. It was just all an attempt to get me fired that didn't succeed and his lawsuit was the exact same stuff that he used to try to get me fired which had already been vetted by our lawyers and everything and negatives nothing there and so once he sued I I had enough faith in the system. <hes> you know <hes> rightly or wrongly that I never ever I thought it was zero chance we could lose and then I ended up working at deadspin which lost a suit <hes> to Hulk Hogan which you know to which had my case case come afterward. I would be very scared because there was <hes> there was nothing wrong in the story. There was no factual inaccuracies forever. Whatever else you WANNA say about the Hulk Hogan story was not factually accurate and it's supposed to be this is a this is America First Amendment so Floyd Abrams? Maybe we should've had floyd Abrams before we get to the rest of my conversation with Dave McKenna wanted to let you you know then our bonus segment I lay plus members. There will be more between me and Dave McKenna <hes> we'll talk about his writing style and some more of his favorite stories to your that conversation joins sleep plus for just thirty five dollars for the first year you can sign up at slate dot com slash hangup plus. I think that one of the greatest things that you've done in your career is exposed. The airline peanuts thank among other atrocities but seriously seriously like I I think one of the things that was the most important that you did and that you should be proud of is exposing Kevin Johnson for everything that he did <hes> he had been accused of sexual abuse. This was like this was a known thing before you wrote about it right like the said all been public and this was a thing like in so many cases like what the bill cosby thing where it's written about and then for whatever reason for some people they're just able to continue living their lives and accruing accomplishments and respect and it's just kind of written out of their history. Do you remember how you got involved in the Kevin Johnson some stuff I remember when he he was being portrayed as good as a good guy for his work with the N._B._A.. Players Association is what started it and I just had some recollection that he wasn't really a good guy and I started so I googled a little in the newspaper archives and and again it kind of goes back to the Elgin Baylor at stories that aren't told enough that people don't know I was shocked that I did not know these tales about him and the more looked into it like <hes> how did how is this guy gotten away way with with this kind of behavior for so long and and and it's it's an awful reality of the powerful people being able to get away like damage he did <hes> I mean you know the the best stories I work on and make me. Cry When I work on them and and I cry when I think of the damage he did to one specific person who agreed to talk to me for those down the the damage that he had done I had to face because I I ended up finding one of one of his <hes> victims and she told me her story and finding a I was very excited to find her like you know locator and figure out her name hadn't been out there and and like I said journals very exciting when I talked with our very I mean I had to face the damage that he had done to her and <hes> <hes> you know not not that. I'm a good guy or anything but I'd like I wanted wanted to do her justice. Yeah <hes> you dead man and he was kind of drummed out of public life because of that seed declined to seek a third term as mayor of Sacramento E._S._p._N.. Had This and God knows how this had gone to the stage that it got to that there was this kind of it was going to be like this puff piece documentary about him right and they were what a great guy and after you your story they cancelled the premiere and it's never aired and that like showed me the power of deadspin <hes> yeah they cancelled they cancelled the movie they announced it merely four hours before Kevin Johnson's Premiere Party that had planned in his hometown Sacramento with Purple Carpet for the Sacramento Kings red carpet and all the N._B._A.. <hes> luminaries we're going to come in and E._S._p._N.. LUMINAIRES also to celebrate this guy and they cancelled it and <hes> that that that you know good for them yeah and I don't want to I. I know the story that you wrote recently about the N._B._A.. Scout who was a rapist <hes>. I know that wreck detail so we don't have destroyed me. We don't have to go down but that read that I had to face the damage that that our system also does to people like the victim or where the town of Saratoga togas spring sided with this twenty six year old rapist and did everything bent over backwards to help him you know get out of town and have a great career <hes> and against a fifteen year old girl foster child <hes> strange from parents who was pregnant you know I had to she had to face this pregnancy all by herself. I they called her a liar. That says you know the assault didn't happen then. She's pregnant so they say she's the aggressor they insinuate that and the system never never helped her out that the the kid you know talking talking to her was she's a she's a relic. She's a rock and he's a creep. I guess in both of those cases these were people whose acts where either not known or not widely known and that kind of allowed them to move through the world's in a way that they wouldn't if people were widely aware that for you kind of a reason to do it is to give people information about who these people really were or because. I think it's really hard when you're thinking about asking victims to come forward. It's like what are you. What are they getting out of it as this going to be good for for them? Are we doing this too so the perpetrator has to pay or are we doing this so the victim feels like they they're made whole somehow again. This is a back to me not being a good guy like I I am much more beholden to the story than to the people have to face. That hadn't stories like this I I I wanNa tell the story and I know I didn't know it's much going into the Kevin Johnson story but I know that the stories that I wrote about Kevin Johnson hurt people who he had hurt because it made them face it again so I I kind the new in this story with with the Saratoga story that same you know obviously I had learned from from Kevin Johnson. It's not it's not a happy subject for these people so many telling again <hes> is not is is not going to bring them much joy. I do think in this case they were very supportive <hes> in of me telling it and and they definitely the system screwed them over so the system. I mean that that should I I mean again. I did it for the story. I did it because it was a story fascinated me but I do think the system should be exposed. You're anti system I want to and take like a slight heart. Turn to talk about having kids and you've read a couple things like you read about you and and you're all this sign going to the greatest football game ever played. Maybe it's like exaggerating exaggeration at all ask anybody was there. You also read about Adrian Danley refereeing. Nothing has a basketball game. You're sentimental guy as we've heard on this podcast where you kind of anticipating how having kids would change your relationship to sports or did. What is it like an accident that they've taken an interest in it? Did you force it upon them <hes> because it's obviously been good for for bonding purposes everything in my life is an accident. I didn't plan any. I haven't planned in one. It's been amazing having kids. I'm I'm very old to have kids. I have a nine year old and a thirteen year old. I'm way too old to that they should have they should be my grandchildren but it's it's a total blessing even when it's not a blessing as <hes> but I did not anticipate I did not think about how it would change. I did not want to write about because some some people write about their kids too much in sports and I really stuck to your guns. They're kind of content the yeah but <hes> it is like the size go football football game we went to you could <hes> you know I can't go into town to going to bed. It was a local Catholic League which I also write about too much schooling and it was the championship football game and it was unbelievable and everybody there will back me up greatest game. There is a Hail Mary appropriately seven yard hail L.. Mary Awesome Yeah and there's a youtube out there back to me and you tubes of the Gonzaga kids saying the giving saying the Lord's prayer and that that ends with the like in real time this was filmed at the game they're saying the Lord's because they knew it was the last play the game and the play unfolds while they're saying the Lord's prayer and the kid catches it as they finish the prayer and it is chilling. It's fantastic it kind of took me by surprise a little bit knowing your children when they like both became same kind of psychotically obsessed with the N._B._A.. And started like Youtube Bang old videos and stuff that they like care about stuff that you know about from back in the day to they ask you about Elgin Baylor or ask you about any like the old crap. That's in your brand yeah they do. I mean it's mostly an N._B._A.. Two k. a month so I'm old enough to hate video games <hes> but N._B._A.. Two K. which was given to them by the other side of the family <hes> stronger smarter side I <hes> has worked out beautifully like they got them very interested in the history of basketball <hes> incredibly interested in so like when they were excited to meet Adrian Dantley as excited as me and that that that made me very very happy there's a good picture of your ahead with Adrian daily and this was another recurring kind of feature because you've written about Adrian Dantley Hall of Famer being a crossing guard which is one of one that was a deadspin thing right yes one of the like greater kind of random <hes> ex athlete where they now stories of all time and then later he turns reading your at a wreck club jealous that I had written about for a game played in by Adrian Dantley against John Thompson Saint Anthony's high school team when Adrian Dantley is with the mouth so that was that was my obsessions kind of all showing up at the same place. Thanks Dave this is fun you. The sweetest has our show for today. That's all we got. Our producer is most Kaplan patches and subscribe or just reach Chow Dot com slash hang up and you can email us at hangup dot com if you're still here than maybe you want to hear a little bit more of Dave McKenna. How could that possibly be an we'll talk a little bit more in our bonus segment about his life and times nine and career deadball they did they rejected? That was my most blatant attempt. Come up with with a t-shirt phrase. I know it failed because a year I went back a year later and Google it got eight. Google hits eight here that conversation.

Dave McKenna D._C Dan Snyder basketball Elgin Baylor Washington D._C Helgeson Baylor Virginia America Beatles Floyd Abrams Kevin Johnson Herman Boone Howard Milstein David kind Samuel Adams Denzel Washington Youtube New Orleans
Richard Butler aka CoachRTB


35:07 min | 1 year ago

Richard Butler aka CoachRTB

"It's a fitness Pittsburgh podcast new episode every week a a podcast about movement part of making Your Life Complete Fitness Lab Pittsburgh Aka fit lab P._G. H brings you interviews with people in the Pittsburgh area who understand and movement is part of what makes life complete looking for a new movement idea for just WanNa hear interesting stories about people who make movement of priority. This is the the podcast for you whether you consider the gym Dojo or fitness studio your third place or just WanNa learn more about movement activity and fitness to enhance your life. GIVE FIT lab P._G. Listen we interview locals in the Pittsburgh area. Were Make Pittsburgh a great place to move subscribe to us and apple podcasts awesome stitcher or Google play or check out our website for other subscription options. Subscribing is free and give notifications when we release new episodes each podcast episode will be long enough to Pique your interest in short enough to hold your attention have an idea for an episode no somebody we should interview or just want to connect with us. Drop an email F._I._T. L. A. B. P. G. H. at gmail.com or follow us on twitter instagram at F._I._T. L. A. B. P._G. H already a fan of Fittler P._G. H check out our sister podcast moving to live moving to live a podcast podcast for movement professionals and amateur Aficionados moving to live offers weekly interviews with movement professionals featuring topics from career development to coaching tips and education education resources to advice for parents of student athletes. We look forward to hearing from you and we hope you enjoy next interview starting now fit lab P._G. PODCAST hot gas moving to live firmly believe that moving should be treated as a lifestyle not just an activity. That's why in addition to our weekly podcast three times a week we released one minute movement tippin lifestyle hack videos on most social media channels including youtube and instagram and every Thursday we do a written fit lab pittsburgh features about a four legged or a two legged mover in the Pittsburgh area. If you like what you're hearing leave us some feedback on apple podcasts or your favorite podcast APP connect with us on social media offers suggestions for future interviews future people to feature on our fit Lad Pittsburgh features this week on the podcast traveled all the way to Mount Lebanon to Mecca fitness and talked octa coach R._T._d. About his PATH AS LIFETIME MOVER FIT lab P._G. Back with another podcast interview as you heard in the intro where you're a podcast that promotes and introduces people to movement in the Pittsburgh area we find people in the Pittsburgh area who do something involved in movement and we the stock them and say hey would you sit down and talk to us and tell us your story. I think we've followed today's guests on instagram vice versa for probably a little bit over year he's been on our fit loud Pittsburgh features and we finally met him in person a few months back at the open house for Altus H._B._O. In downtown Pittsburgh we're here in Mecca at <hes> eleven and we're talking to coach R._T._p. Aka Richard Butler so if you follow them on Instagram you've seen coach R._T._d. You're wondering who is this sky. His actual name is Richard Butler. He actually has a real job in addition to the fitness stuff that he does so Richard. Thanks for taking time on a hot day to sit down and talk to fill out P._G. H I am glad to be here today I think the first question to get out of the way that's interesting. When people have multiple hats is if you could share with says? What's your real job when you're not doing fitness classes cool? I like that multiple hats thing. Sometimes I have to figure out which had how actually wearing <hes> so oh I like to call myself multi-functional fitness professional professional and so my day job is people like to say I and my passion job. I'm the H._R. Manager for talent and wellness development for the city of Pittsburgh and so there's two hats they're actually the one got is that I do the professional development with a team of all thirty five hundred of our employees <hes> that's everything from policy making to training on those policies to creating and developing soft skills for leaders who are looking to go from employees to supervisor it to manager to Director <hes> just just everything that's involved with growing the employees the other side of that that is also just as exciting as the first side the talent development is the wellness <hes> I am in charge of the wellbeing of all employees and that means that we have a robust wellness platform. I have wellness gurus or as people call them in the rest of the world wellness coaches ours are gurus and they worked with thin police on a daily basis for everything from nutrition to <hes> just basically get in the moving <hes> we also want to make sure sure <hes> that you know when employees are healthy and they're in there they are well they perform even higher level and so that's important to us and and I know some people who are listening to this or not in the Pittsburgh area and don't understand that Pittsburgh is not like the Pittsburgh of the nineteen seventies early nineteen eighties. How long have they had the wellness program so the wellness program has been around? Oh I would say not on this level since I took the position but approximately five years <hes> they had a program prior to that cost city fit which was the basically to sports leagues for the employees of City of Pittsburgh and we've expanded city fit to be beyond just sports so for us. The wellbeing isn't just playing kickball but well being is that we're teaching teaching our employees with lunch and learns how to Meditate reteach employees that if you sit in your chair all day cheers killing you <hes> we really we have were great big program of lunch and learns that are both professionally base and wellness based and I know when I was talking with you at the Altus Open House you mentioned Chin that you started a either a meditation Yoga Class for the sanitation workers because they specifically came to you and ask for that and that's something that you don't necessarily see when you're behind the sanitation drucker the guys on the road crew and you honk at them because they're holding you up. How is the input been from city employees are there groups of people and you don't have have to say which ones if it is who kind of look at you and go? Where's this been all my career or on the other side people who look at you and go well? I work forty hours a week. I don't have time to do this crap. That's that's that's a really great question and observation. <hes> what I did a climate survey basically we're our employees please. When it comes to things that they want things that they do and there's an overwhelming response from the employees that they want meditation and Yoga I went who knew and for you know for sensitive reasons <hes> active threats from disabilities and so the more stressor employees are <hes> the the the higher level that we may have some crises and so if employees want meditation take Yoga by Golly? They're getting and so we did. We started a meditation series. That is a drop in lunch. Ler We now have a every uh right now. We have a Thursday yoga class at one of our buildings and we have a yoga program at one of our police stations <hes> and it has been and an not even a side note <hes> mayor Peduto met the Dalai Lama and he was very excited about healing empowers of meditation and Yoga that he wants to do where he wants us to do as a city as Sadie Feta's as the wellness platform the city of Pittsburgh to come up with trauma informed meditation and Yoga Not just for employees but for our youth in our community the centers in our REC centers and so I'm excited to figure out how to make that happen it's interesting. I had the opportunity about twenty five years ago to hear the Dalai Lama's speak in Atlanta School and he had a translator who is not very good and I still remember about ten minutes into his talk he said in kind of broken doc in English but very very understandable he said I think I can do a better job than my translator. Let me try to explain what I'm trying to say and he did the rest of the forty five or so minutes in English which was very very impressive that is impressive so that's your day job my day job and I love this day. Job Have People I've only only been in this role close to two years now and I have lots of people that ask me often because they have a negative stereotype of what working for state government has and they're wondering am I ready to leave yet and my response to that as well no because this position who I am I I love learning a love coaching. I love teaching and I love helping people grow and this position with the city of Pittsburgh has given me the opportunity to show up. Be Me so you finish the job. It's probably the five o'clock it's probably six or six thirty. You have almost another whole whole time job because I know your weekends or quite busy to what do you do on the side or kind of is when you put the hat it on backwards or the second job sure so and there's a third job too that I'll talk but the second job is <hes> <hes> my life. It's my lifestyle. <hes> I al May fitness professional <hes> I have been in the fitness industry since nineteen eighty eighty three. I believe this is my thirty six thirty seven th year or something like that being in the fitness industry so I've been a pioneer a whole lot of things and then when you see a bow sue ball as one of the first people to actually purchase Bozu balls <hes> saw them on an ace fitness conference bought them right off the floor. I've bought the first gravitron veterans that were ever made. which is the pool up machines that use his hydraulics to pull you up so I've been in the forefront of someone newer trends friends and now the older trends are now back to being newer trends which is pretty cool rebounding classes rebounding Kloten classes houses and call them bounce now <hes> I'm an original Johnny g certified Spin Instructor got certified through Jani Gee if anyone's familiar with Johnny Gee the <hes> I've also taken several other crazy things from Johnny g because he was he would come up with some amazing different trendy things <hes> A- and I also was certified as a Reebok Cycling Instructor when Reebok first came out because number one thing that tell fitness professionals especially personal trainers how are you differentiating yourself from the other trainers <hes> and and how are you standing out and that's by getting searched other people do not have and I think that's a great point? What comes around goes around and comes back? I know I taught spin classes when I was in Grad School in the late nineties and the guy who got me involved in it with Paul Swift who has a bike fit company now as a former national team sprint cyclist and his comment when they were bringing spin classes in his well. This isn't new. We've been doing this for twenty years. That's exactly right yeah so I've been on a bike mike teaching indoor cycling now for sixteen years. I think which is <hes> pretty cool. I have to ask you some outdoor cycling too or just indoors I do you might as much as I used to. I lived in D._C. And I commuted exclusively by bicycle. Which is why I got into teaching cycling? <hes> I cycle twenty two miles round trip to work and taking it back to got time as in the nineteen eighties and I'll tell you a quick story how I ended up in fitness because I think it's sort of cool <hes> as a young man and when you looked at me I always looked at number one just skinny just or to let her I whatever way you want to look at that or maybe the letter out because I had sized fourteen feet even at decided eleven and I was bullied a lot. I simply because how I looked which is pretty interesting right. I you would think why believes any can khalid overweight kid when I got bullied a lot <hes> what came out of being bullied a lot was a I became an extremely fast runner true story. I ran three miles to school through alleyways. I think I was the original obstacle course designer <hes> Iran through alleyways over fences every day from the time the bell rang on each end to hurry up and get home and iced there used to be in the city of Pittsburgh <hes> you could put your carbs out furniture old waits benches once a week I started going through people's who's garbage picking up their weights. They're benches all other exercise equipment and put them in my basement and then I found Arnold Schwarzenegger Asaka pedia media of bodybuilding and that became my Bible to change my life and I would be in my basement following Arnold Program Day Day in and day out and <hes> I started changing the shape of my body but not only did it change the shape of my body my competence all of a sudden change change and so when I started being chased I would just stop and the people that were chasing me started noticing that they would go butler would even do and you look and big and believe it or not. I started training the bullies which is so I became came a personal trainer to protect myself and so that was my first. That's that was my first started training. I did not do sports in high school or there was no middle school then because my father <hes> felt that we need to spend our time working in not playing <hes> I can recall him one day in the basement saying to me. I'm not sure why you wasting all this time. Lifting weights you can't make money lifting weights of course as we always say it was history from there <hes> and then I went on to college at Slippery Rock and so be rock heady weightlifting club and and I immediately joined the weightlifting club it wasn't body but it was these were slippery rock weightlifters were nationally ranked powerlifters and I lifted with these guys <hes> some women day in and day out and <hes> then I in my major was mass media and Communications Real Funny Story Story. I wanted to be the very first African American news anchor Bryant Gumbel beat me to it and so for a while if you if you know anything about slippery rock here in Pennsylvania Slippery Rock was a physical education college so I was to offer personnel ought to begin with taking mass media everyone else was taking physical education. Exercise Physiology was not a word yet can was demane movement and and so all of my friends they were taken all these cool classes so I decided I'm GonNa take two classes so I started taking teaching and Coaching Badminton Teaching and Coaching Judo Teaching and coaching track and feel judo wrestling basketball. I tell you the weight of a shuttlecock in in Batman and a distance and Hollywood drom and that was the foundation for my interest in fitness and when I graduated from college <hes> there wasn't a work for me a mass media. We didn't have hot cast instagram social media we had three networks and and if I didn't get on one of those three networks nationally locally it wasn't happening and so I left Pittsburgh to find work in the fitness industry in Washington D._C. So Bryant Gumbel stole your job and you've ended up here instead. It worked out worked out. It really did <hes>. I let him have that job so yeah ended up in Washington D._C. And in those days in the eighties <hes> health clubs are just become a thing they were everywhere in DC every corner corner competing against each other they take your money before they were even open and then they wouldn't open and what I found is that I would start going to different gyms asking for work but they didn't really know what to do with me. There was no personal training in gyms then and so finally finally I got to one gym and I went to the owner. I said Hey look I WANNA learn a fitness business. I will work for free for you. If you just let me shadow you you and I will keep your cleanest Jim in America 'cause I'll keep it clean while I'm learning and what I what how he said. Yes what what I what happened was every time I saw member doing something incorrectly. I'm just gently walk over and say hey let me show you different way of doing that and I kept doing that day a in a day out well member start requesting Vin new trainer. The owner looked at me went. Hey they want you at that moment. I went to the owner as a hey. I have an idea in California to have this thing called personal training and go in the homes of celebrities only only celebrities at that point and they train them for an hour. What if we did that in house he's like I never heard of that? I will let me try it and so I created personal training in Washington D._C. At that moment within a studio <hes> and arrest history from there <hes> I spent a lot of time in the fitness industry in D._C. But every Jim closed down after they collected a big Wad of money I would show up as the manager but the locked the changed so that frustrated me and I ended up going to a Y._M._C._A. In D._C. and really learned begin to really learned learned a business model of fitness through the Y._M._C._a. of Washington D._C. And I'm curious because I know many times when people get exposed to fitnesses weightlifting weightlifting they become hardcore weightlifting and you know the idea of aerobic exercise or something like that is I'm GonNa ride the bike to warm up and then I'm going to go left heavyweights and I'm GonNa lift heavyweights lift heavyweights and then they get to be your age and I can say this because you said for your sixtieth birthday. Your goal is to do sixty different or else and you're thirty three hundred thirty three today. What was the transition or what was the reason for not being for lack of a better term? Turn positive or negative a hardcore muscle had now and be more wide-ranging job security has a great a question <hes> I had to differentiate myself from the other muscle hits and I started <hes> teaching group exercise immediately <unk> step class with actual scrunchy socks Reebok's Reebok's absolutely headband some type hitmen on my head became really good at group axe. All I also became really good because of all the teaching and coaching classes slippery rock. I'm getting really good at working with high performance athletes and I recognize in high performance athletes that strength training alone was not going to help them continue to be high performing athletes and so I began this study and go to all the different certifications or I could learn mobility work where I learn <hes> progression and <hes> overload theories and just really learn so that I and I always believed in working the whole part why always believed I always I believe in benching has heavy as I could one rap look at me big chess club but then when I started getting athlete and I was very very fortunate to meet professional athletes who were already with teams that began to not only lift weights and so <hes> looking from them for sure and what was the reason for the transition from D._C. Back to Pittsburgh I you know I I have pride in Pittsburgh and I went to D._C. Actually for all the wrong reasons and a wrong reasons is very simple my senior year in college so and mentioned that there were ten women everyone man in D._c. So I got on a Greyhound bus and I went to D._C. That's a true story and so when I was done being that one man to every ten women boomerang right back to Pittsburgh most pittsburghers do because we have pride for the city. We're talking with Richard Butler coach R._T._p. I think one of the interesting things this is your goal for your sixtieth birthday to do sixty different workouts. What was the impetus for that for saying you know I want to try and when I say sixty different workouts maybe you can explain plane this but my understanding is at sixty different workout? You cannot repeat a workout or a style of movement correct so <hes> every year have birthday work out with friends and the theme is always that Bertha Day age are every year I also have to to my own design do my age and pushups unbroken and so that started becoming easy. I just need to do one more push pushing each year. That's not a hard thing to do and I I became aluminum ambassador two years ago okay and with that embassador ship we have the ability to go workout at different studios. It's not a requirement but it's nice to have a sweat date with other people and I started realizing that I was at everyone's different studio already and I was thinking A._b. Pretty cool to set a milestone goal of turning sixty and just simply come up with sixty different workouts and <hes> it's been a challenge believe it or not because people might think they're different and it's my own personal ethics. I'm not <hes> I always have to weigh okay this really one that I could check off my box or is this suggest a modification of one that I just did and so <hes> it's been exciting. I've had a lot of great gym owner Studio Owners reaching out to me on social media say hey how about if you try my workout. Have you tried silk areas. Hey we have a circus class bungee class Fan Angie. If you've done a bungee class do a bungy class it is fun imagine doing a push up except your elevated four feet it off the ground up tie. You're literally up lounges where you lunge across the room and you're you feel like Superman and women fly so it's been really exciting of different work because I've even had even have someone create a Ninja Course for me that Iran through that was really fun on <hes> and it's a the other part is a self confidence pride and putting being raw and and being seen and taking my deficiencies and overcoming those efficiencies by doing something that I normally wouldn't not do like most fitness professionals. I'm a diva my way or no way why would I go to someone else's class well. I'm being raw and I'm being seen and I'm emotionally naked at the hands of another fitness instructor and that has been rewarding. Sometimes I think nerve wrecking for the instructor because hey that's the legend Richard Butler. He's been around a long time and he's taking my class <hes> but it's also been I've I'm creating. I know for next sixty years that I live. I'm creating life long. New Fitness is professional friends. I'm always curious when I interview people for fit loud Pittsburgh. This is kind of a two part question. The first one is that I've had a huge variety of answers first. One is favourite movement activity that you've done in the past. Would you do it again. I know that's kind of putting you on the spot yep yep he could smell the smoke burning and since we can't see me I'm fronting up my face right now fast. I'll tell you my worse <music>. I'll start there. We'll take that we used to call them. Squat thrusts Canadians call them barbies Burke's. I have a relationship with Burke's that basically burpee Santa meet richer. You know I'm GonNa Kick Your Butt so you might as well get it over with. I was just at the November project workout in Buffalo New York and one of the exercises was oh. Oh thirty days thirty Burke's. I'm six two. I need an elevator to get down to the ground fast. The problem doc gravitational pull is against a six foot two person you jump up you jump up forever and then you come down hard and so doc. I almost don't even give my personal training clients burpee because I think it's just wrong and even out there listening inviting me to your studio for workout. Come on please. You really have to BURP BURP. He's my I would say. The favourite movement is growing and so just for the listeners to know there's <hes> I have been I have been coaching on the indoor rower since one thousand nine hundred three indoor rower concept to came out in one thousand nine hundred seventy three from two brothers who were rowing Olympians Olympians and someone that original instructors. I'm a certified you can to row indoor royne instructor. I take pride in that. <hes> I in the past executive director three rivers rowing here in Pittsburgh and I'm past inclusion manager for U._S._A. Rowing <hes> out of Princeton and rowing growing <hes> on the water rowing indoors there's there. I don't think there's a better flow we talk about flow and Yoga. We talk about flow hello and lots of things but the beauty of the movement of Royan is is just tremendous <hes>. I'm very fortunate that Mecca fitness. That's where we are today. <hes> came to me. Someone asked Kevin Beam in the owner. Who Can I get as a ruin instructor and in my name kept coming up and I'm very fortunate that Kevin came up with row fit and we have <hes> one of the first first recreation indoor rowing program in in Pittsburgh? I clarify that because I create it the first indoor rowing program in Pittsburgh for the public at three rivers Roy but as designed specifically typically for on water rowers versus recreation indoor folks who may never get on the roller and I'm one more thing. I'm really proud of <hes>. I'm presently a consultant to U._S. Rowing and I'm most proud of you as Roy because you has ryan has just proclaimed at our last convention. That Indoor Roy I mean is rowing less not separate. It rowing is Roehi. That's a huge win for all of Roy and I know I'm GonNa. I have to ask you this question. We had the good fortune to interview the youth coach from three rivers rowing. I guess a little over a year ago and he dropped me down the rabbit hole. Just curiosity. He talked talked about the perfect stroke. Are you still seeking the perfect stroke or have you at times during your rolling going that was it I just need to be able to replicate that sweet spot of the stroke broke. Maybe one out of every ten times rowing rowing teaches you patience of things that you cannot control wind wind speed flow <hes> entry of all that blade is going into the water. <hes> did you lay back just right right or your hips or shoulders over your hips. Just there's so many moving parts <hes> I think that's actually talking about the perfection action as I've gotten older I decided to escape from that were perfection and I tell people and I say you know you look out in the sky. Is there a perfect clout. No perfect tree no nothing was made perfect and so I now just drive for excellence and that way I can not be attached to the outcome of perfection and just know that at that moment that I did my best I I gave my excellence. My other favorite questioned always ask because I'm always looking for different things because I have a lot of expensive toys and expensive hobbies lobbies with biking etc but you always wonder if there's something else out there. Is there a bucket list activity or movement some movement or movement trip. That's on your list at some point what I'm GonNa do this. I haven't gotten to it yet. I think I'm going to enjoy it that you'd like to share with the listeners yeah I <hes> that's another great one. You're inside of my head. These are things as I think about every day all day. How can I how can I do something different? How can I can be naked and be seen? I think that's something to do with somebody who takes movement is a lifestyle not interested activity. That's right so right now. In Life <hes> I am looking for two things <music> cycling Spain and <hes> for the rest of my life destination road racing running appeared on another continent Beit in another state <hes>. I'm slowly starting to be a at a place in my career in my life that some of these wishes are nationally now play <hes>. I'm I'm running a AH A bucket lists half-marathon August seventeenth in British Columbia. The lululemon sees <hes> half-marathon about that is a half marathon a yoga festival and a Global D._J. Event forty-eight hours I basically partying sweating and so I was very surprised that I signed up for the first time this year and actually got Dan because it's a lottery I got in and I did oh shoot. I got in okay so I better start training. Iran ran a ten mile and the Redwood Fours and San Joaquin Joaquin national forests in San Francisco Bay area. That was one of the most amazing that's how how I got the bug of destination running I am running up this mountain and you get to the top and million-euro trees it disguise got dark is because these trees that are reaching up to the sky cover to sky and I'm standing were dinosaurs once walked amongst I dinosaur trees off in the distance. I could see the Golden Gate Bridge and I go yeah this. This is it this this this is to live and so I'm looking for these opportunities to just do these destination things all involve movement. We've been talking with Richard Butler told us about his career. As a lifetime mover and fitness professional have started way way back in the eighties and I'm saying that with the smile on my face <hes> he's talked about <hes> the first Bosun ball how spin classes come around. I think he really exemplifies. THE ETHOS OF FIT lab Pittsburgh Movement movement is a lifestyle not just an activity Richard. I want to thank you for taking time to share your story with Fittler Pittsburgh and hopefully this does more to help and encourage people in Pittsburgh to make movement movement lifestyle and not just an activity well. I appreciate you stalking me. Ally me the opportunity to share my passion for movement. I am back Guy Fat. You folks who use age as an excuse. You need to stop it. Thanks for listening to the latest episode of Fit Lab P._G. Brought to you by moving to live intro an exit music Nick Marathon man by Jason Shaw check out the show notes for contact info far latest guests links to other information mentioned in the episode and links towards sister podcast moving to live moving to live is a podcast about movement and exercise professionals and amateur aficionados moving to live offers topics from Career Development to coaching tips and education resources to advice for parents of student athletes. You can subscribe to us and apple podcasts stitcher or Google play for check out our website for other subscription options. Your free subscription gets notified when release a new episode questions comments suggestions email us at F._I._T. L. A. A B P G H A g mail DOT COM or follow us on twitter and instagram at F._I._T. L. A.

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93 Fixing Broken Beauty Laws with Lindsay Dahl, SVP of Social Mission at Beautycounter

Well Made

52:17 min | 1 year ago

93 Fixing Broken Beauty Laws with Lindsay Dahl, SVP of Social Mission at Beautycounter

"You're listening to well-made podcast from lemme but the people and ideas behind your favorite online brands. It's and your host stephanie ango ooh lindsey doll welcome to the show happy to be here so oh you are the v._p. Of social mission at beauty counter for those who don't know can you give a little bit of a description of beauty counter and what the company does sure. I'm happy to <hes> beatty connor as young as a kind of falls and the beauty category we helped establish clean beauty as a category around seven years ago and our goal is to get safer products in the hands of everyone and so what that means is we bring in manufacturer products market. We cover all the difference product the categories for the entire family getting safer products in the hands of everyone doesn't just mean beauty counter products for us. We're also equally committed to educating the everyday consumer about about how they can find safer products those without harmful ingredients that are unfortunately common in the industry today and we also use our business voice for good advocating for legislative have changed to kind of fix what is otherwise a broken beatty system is so there's so much about what you do that i'm fascinated about and frankly uneducated about how it will work so i wanna explore all of that especially on your job and leading the policy side of beauty counter. How did you get involved with beauty counter in the first place. I joined the company five years ago so pretty early on and our founder and c._e._o. Her name is greg renfrew. She knew from the very early days. Even though she doesn't have a background in policy or advocacy she knew that she wanted that to be an element of this business which i really commend her for kind of having the uh foresight to see how powerful it could be for business to use their voice for good when it comes to washington state legislatures but you know the company was looking looking for someone that had my skill set and at the time i was in d._c. Running a federal campaign working to overhaul our laws on toxic chemicals and <hes> so my background is really and grassroots organizing in lobbying and i've worked for the public health and environmental community for over fifteen years now and so just kind of given when my track record greg asked me she said are you willing to kinda. Take a leap of faith a move from d._c. to l._a. And see if the skills that you have to help pass legislation could transfer to the business community in a real and authentic way and i kind of saw the vision and i was really excited by the opportunity opportunity to see if corporate activism which now is increasingly more commonplace but was still really rare at the time was possible and i'm so glad what i did. It strikes me as really unusual for company. That's only a couple of years old to go down that path. What was it that greg had figured out that made her want to go down that path. I think the one of the things i really interesting about greg is that she started a beauty brand but had no background in the beauty industry <hes> nourishing necessarily a product junkie <hes> traditionally she she kind of started to learn about toxic ingredients and harmful ingredients in her products when she had children and basically she could find safer cleaner she could find you know a better matches for her home but when i came to personal care and beauty she found a real lack of options and specifically quickly options that worked as well as conventional brands but without all the harmful ingredients and so being the businesswoman as she kinda like she saw a huge opportunity in the marketplace and in that same way she realized based on her research that it wasn't enough just to start a consumer facing company with products that people people could buy because there's no way any singular company can reach everyone and ultimately come. There's an inherent altruism and her vision of starting the brand and the altruism altruism is really expressed through our advocacy work and what i mean by that is the problem with the broken. Beauty industry is really a problem with our broken laws and and so in order to really fix the problem and make sure products are safer for everyone <hes> we fundamentally need to fix those laws to make sure that regardless of who you are how much money you make you can go into a store and find a product that safe. How did you first meet. What was it a job posting that you've found or did she come and find you. How did how how did it work. It wasn't it was actually a colleague who is currently working at beauty counter and they were looking for someone who had kind of a policy and partnerships background and she reached out to me and said hey. We're looking for someone with your skill set. Do you know anyone that's looking and at the time she the phone call kind of caught me on at a bad day. It was like feeling demoralized with my current job at the time and i was like we'll tell me more about it. You know they were basically asking for a referral. <hes> and the conversation went from there and then we went through what <hes> you know we have kind of a long interview process here be counter and i. I would say it's it. It was just about just as much about me. Interviewing beatty was about beauty counter interviewing me <hes> but when greg i meant i felt like okay she gets it. My big fear was of course that. I didn't want to take a leap of faith and work for a company in the n._b._a. In some you know like silos office on the side where they're like. Oh that's our do good arm or whatever i wanted it to be really baked baked into the d._n._a. Of the company and all you have to do is talk to greg for two minutes to realize that she not only gets it but she is dedicated to building a business that is from scratch using the best ingredients sourcing the best we can and leveraging business ways for good and so through that process. I realized allies d- okay. This is definitely something i wanna do. I'd love for you to describe a little bit about the business model because it strikes me as really important the way that your galvanizing zing tens of thousands of people to sell your product seems like a very important part of like rounding out the story yeah you know it's actually one of the most satisfying things about my day to day a job which i wouldn't have expected five years ago so beatty counters at direct retail brand which means that we sell through three different channels. We've got direct consumer through our ecommerce. Morris platform were in select retail stores whether they're pop-ups or own wholly owned retail stores and the third channel is through a network of venom consultants and you know again the vision behind the counter was to be just as disruptive in the way we distribute our products as we do in our formulations formulations and is really rare to see most direct to consumer brown's especially those with a direct sales model. That's the only channel you can buy from and what set speedy counterpart is that we wanna meet today's consumer where he or she as knowing that some people really kind of like working with a friend or supporting a friend's business <hes> and then there's some people that just want to go to beat conor dot com purchase a product and leave and so that kind of hybrid model is really pretty unprecedented and the industry but it's ultimately that channel of over forty thousand men and women who are selling our products has been really rewarding for me because i get to use the kind of grassroots grassroots tools in the toolbox to be able to mobilize people to not just sell products but to educate the masses and mobilize them. I'm for nonpartisan political change and that's been really encouraging 'cause i bring them to state legislatures and capitol hill and and kind of inviting people into that process is really satisfying not only for me but i think it opens up there is to ultimately how important it is to engage in our democracy. Can you describe more about these independent consultants. What are their professions or like. How do they participate in. It's not full-time for them. Are they. Selling other brands like how how does that work. You know it really vary so the women who sell our products primarily women you know some of them work fulltime on their businesses and some of them work part time so we've got people who are physicians and lawyers and people with backgrounds like mine. We've got human rights lawyers in d._c. And they sell beauty connor on the side for a couple of reasons. I think people become really passionate about this issue <hes> and they wanna it'd be able to be a resource for their friends and family but i think a lot of them. Also like to engage in are the work of our kind of rigor broader mission you so for example every year i kind of train our consultants and i give them a tool kit of how they can meet with our elected officials in their home state and we organized this past ear over two hundred and fifty meetings across all fifty states and that's a pretty unique experience that people don't necessarily get if they're you know a doctor or or if they're staying at home with our kids and they're looking for some extra income so it's kind of this really sweet hybrid of work with meaning while you can start still earn a meaningful income while doing good in the world and for most people it also means they can do it on their own time which the flexibility i think is. It's something that people are attracted to. I'm fascinated by the process of actually educating the consultants because it's like you've got forty thousand people well then if if you go to the the beauty counter website there's so much information. There's so many products there are. There's a long list of chemicals that you're never using using. There's a whole other list of packaging that you're choosing to not use. There's so much stuff there plus what you're talking about with what policies can can we move forward. How do you get that message across the forty thousand people. It's not dissimilar to those who train associates who work at a retail shop. We have a pretty extensive training program when someone enrolls as a consultant but then over time i mean we're dedicated located every single week. We have webinars that we do. We bring in experts scientist. They we do interviews with in-house formulators and product development. We've got a celebrity makeup artist who does tutorials so we kind of have experts in all the different areas whether it's product knowledge are advocacy work or you know how to effectively build and sell product and i think like anything we know that there's a learning curve in our business is pretty complicated but people that ah attracted to beauty counter and wanna say yes to kind of joining us in this journey are also very intellectually curious and so i think we've found that we've kind of successfully <hes> learned how to weave our training in a way that onboard people onto these issues over time so for example what i mean by that. Is you know the first day someone and says yeah you know i'm. I'm interested in this and i want to. I want to sell beauty counter products. I'm not suddenly inviting them to join me in sacramento or washington d._c. You kind of have to earn that <hes> <hes> through either tenure or how long you been with a business. How do you split your time between all those different cities. We travel a lot. All of us do hear a p._d. Counter but we also you do skype and all sorts of different kind of e communication to help bridge that gap and make sure that we can scale because in the early days it was a lot of hitting the road and doing kind of old school grassroots small visits people from five to twenty five people and markets all across the country. That's how beauty counter honor grew as a business and kind of took off so we still do that because there's nothing like a in a live event but i would say that you know we try to divide and conquer and we know that there are different areas that we try to hit across the united states in canada slowly over the course of the year. It can get exhausting though i'm not gonna lie. I can't even imagine what was the first policy or advocacy thing that you did at beauty counter that you were super proud out of that actually was able to kind of get to the other side you know the first policy when i had a beauty counter was in twenty fifteen we helped pass a law in the state of oregon again that would ban sixty six of the most toxic chemicals from children's products so about a third of those were relevant to children's personal care products like baby shampoo who and baby lotion and that was really exciting for me. I had worked with the my colleagues. In oregon for years and state legislation is kind of how i cut my teeth in this world and so it was really exciting for the beauty connor community because i had known the power and kind of the energy that comes sir making that large scale change but you can only tell someone so many times to be actually a part of it for a lot of people here that were maybe questioning. Why are we are you doing this. You know political work seems a little unsure about it. We're consumer brand. Suddenly people realized oh wow you know we were the leading business that helped tip the scales on a piece of legislation that even though a pass in the state of oregon ultimately becomes a de facto national ban because toymakers for example aren't gonna make one one set of products for the state of oregon that are safer and sell products to the rest of the country. Just basically changes the way that companies do business. It was good that early on for me personally that we had a win because i think everyone here with empty connor said you know what okay i. I'm willing to stick with us. I can see where we're going in. Even if sometimes it takes a little bit of time so when you're pushing for legislation like that what are you up against. Is it like big corporations or is it that just general apathy or the complexity of making that whole thing happened like what is it that you're you're pushing against. I think there's probably three things that <unk>. I feel like our consistent headwinds. The first of which there is definitely although not as much as you would expect there are a bunch of companies that are just working to protect the status quo. Oh and i think oftentimes people think that it's so that kind of corporate presence is so strong <hes> which it is but i have seen over the last fifteen in years that it doesn't matter who you are if you have enough grass roots of your people calling in to state or federal elected officials they ultimately have to go with the way that their voters want and so i've been consistently encouraged by that but i think apathy both from legislators but also from your everyday a friend's is probably another headwind that i always face and i think is just because people don't think our democracy feels accessible to them and so that's something that i'm always kind kind of really steadfast and trying to show people that our democracy works best when we all participate but if we're not participating than it's not gonna work for us and i think people don't realize how easy it is to actually engage in the process and so i'm going to tell you a quick story when i was in d._c. I asked a bunch of my friends who worked on capitol hill. I said okay so i want you to tell me how many phone calls in a week does it take to get an issue on the radar of your boss so a senator and <hes> consistently probably pulled maybe ten to fifteen people and i continue to ask this question over time and the feedback is really consistent across the board people say it takes about twenty phone calls and a week on a particular issue for to kind of raise up to the senator and if you think about that twentieth nothing especially if you think of an entire week's time and the reason for that and what happens in capitol hill is that they have staff that represent them on different issue areas and and they get a tally because by law the kind of summer intern who answers the phone when you call your d._c. Office they have to tally what someone's calling about so if you're calling calling about clean beauty and how you want more oversight on harmful ingredients and personal care produc spe mark that down and once it gets to twenty they tell that staffer and when they sit down with a senator every week they say you know what we received thirty calls this week people asking for more oversight on personal karen beauty products and then that starts that conversation and so i just share that to show that you know apathy is big but once people start to see this and how their voice really does one phone call does cutler pretty tremendous impact in shaping our democracy. Suddenly they're willing to engage in a way they weren't before yeah. I see this all the time on twitter in particular where you know some <hes> issue comes up and there's this call to you know hey phone up your government officials and i always wonder myself it. Does that work or are you know because of the way that our country is so divided right now you know you're just calling someone who probably already knows about that in your elected representative is already. Maybe fighting for that or maybe not. I guess that part seems like the biggest aspect <hes> the people need to. I guess be mobilized around anything another things even if you feel like oh my senator cares about about this issue already i know that here. She is fighting for this. There's still a value in calling because what happens when you're in the kind of halls of congress is that if so so many people are calling about an issue that you care about then that office like if their phones go down or like it just creates another way for them to create political momentum tim by having chatter within the wall so if you know we're in california here if you're calling senator feinstein about an issue that you know she's already a champion of but if you shut down their phones because everyone's calling then they can use that to say look how many people care about this issue <hes> so it's like the small little nuances of how things actually actually get done in d._c. Are directly related to how we the people communicate with the people who represent us in office. I imagine that the the consultants alton independent consultants that you work with even more so than maybe the end consumer are people that are participating in that when you're when you're trying to mobilize some of those folks around an idea yeah absolutely and i will say that a lot of them joined beady connor with the same skepticism as the every anyone you see on the street eight and suddenly now they're way more engaged in the political process than they were before they joined beady counter so we kind of make accessible to them and then they emulate that and they share that suzzie azam with their friends and their local communities because there is someone that their friends look up to you so it has this kind of cool trickle down effect that ultimately it's a sound super nerdy but it's true it's kind of <hes> it's infectious and a really good way. Has your job change in any way since trump took office <hes> not really i would say i one of the beauties of working on this issue is that both democrats and republicans when you talk to people out in the world really care about this issue. It's really nonpartisan. The truest truest sense of the word and i can say that because i've worked on removing toxic chemicals from consumer products long before working at beauty counter and ultimately emily congress passes the laws and the kind of signature happens at the desk in oval office or in the rose garden and so my job hasn't doesn't change that much. Actually we've seen because we every year our momentum is building in d._c. We've seen more traction the last few years. I'd love for you to explain what what the f._d._a.'s role is in cosmetics especially as it relates to drugs medicine and food. It seems like this area is regulated slightly. We differently yeah. That's a good area. I don't i don't know much about it. Yes so the beauty industry is one of the least regulated related industries in the consumer marketplace to give you an example of that the last time that congress passed a major federal law overseeing the safety of ingredients that are used used in the shave cream that you use or the lotion. I put on my body in the morning. <hes> was in nineteen thirty eight and so was the last president to sign in a major overhaul all to our cosmetic safety laws so we've got a lot of work to do because the science since the thirties has rapidly evolved to give you an example the european union has has passed legislation well over a decade ago to restrict over fourteen hundred ingredients in personal care products in the united states has restricted just thirty to date so we're really far behind but what it means is that the f._d._a. The agency doesn't have the authority or the power to take action when they see something. That's happening in the marketplace so a good example of that is <hes> two years ago while i say it's more than two years ago but it's been kind of consistent problem problem. There were hair straightening straightening treatments that use up to forty percent formaldehyde data really common for people to get in salons and from aldehydes hyde is a known human carcinogen and it creates a meter exposure both for the person who is receiving the hair straightening treatment but more so for the technician who's administering during it and the f._d._a. Saw that this was a problem but they couldn't and they still can't to this day recall that product from the marketplace and so this is one example of many many where there are pretty serious health risks with some of the ingredients used in our personal care products but the f._d._a. can't do anything about it. So that's part of our work at beauty counter here it's to not only put safer products in the marketplace that people can purchase today but to fundamentally change the system so the f._d._a. Can do their job because right now. They cannot yeah. It's really fascinating. We talked a little bit about this on the podcasts before with super goop in they make sunscreen and there's just such a big difference between what's going on in europe versus in the united states around some of these products and you know this is something you're like rubbing all over your skin why you know what do you think would be the ideal kind of situation. Do you feel that europe is far enough in terms of the kind of regulations that they he put on companies or should it even closer to something like food or or medicine you know i think dear paean market is definitely far ahead <hes> but i wouldn't say i would if someone said today. Can you just adopt the european legislation or regulations. Would you do that. I'd probably say no because i think we can do it. Better and kinda learn from some of the lessons for example. You know people assume just because something's made in the european union that it's automatically safe and they're still a bunch of ingredients used in the european gained market that we restrict your beauty counter so i think what i would. I would say somewhere in between. I don't think the ingredients used n._b._d. Products need to be as heavily regulated related as <hes> pharmaceuticals because those are they just interact and behave with our body in a really different ways. If you look at the science i think there should be regulated based on the assigns exposed <hes> so i think somewhere in between and i think that's part of why we've been advocating for legislation in dc that fixes the main in problem and the main problem is that the f._d._a. doesn't have a say over which ingredients the beauty industry uses so what i mean by that is they don't don't get a green light. You can use this ingredient. It's totally safe or yellow light. This ingredient is safely used in these different ways or read you know at this thing is toxic. There's a bunch of science behind it. It should move off the market and that lack of a system is the biggest problem and that's what we're encouraging our leaders in washington but in d._c. To pass to ultimately make sure that when new products are coming to market thing gradients used have been screened for safety so in the in the never list as you call. I am the beauty counter website. There's fifteen hundred chemicals. I don't know how involved you are in establishing that that list but i guess how easy is it to decide to add something to that list internally beauty counter you know we're always adding to the netherlands so it started as you know a little over fifteen nine hundred and it's grown over the years i would say we you know how easy is it. Is your question how easy in the sense of like a how much research is involved in deciding to put some something there on that list. I'm looking at the description right now and it says questionable or harmful chemicals. Also questionable is an interesting word because it's just sort of like okay. We don't know enough but let's just put it here because we wanna make sure we're not ah causing harm without knowing it that makes sense but i guess that's the question like how easy is it to put something on the list from the perspective of is the data there to be able to do so and then the other part is how easy is it from a practical standpoint in terms of working with the different suppliers and actually creating a product that works for for the customer yeah those are good questions so i would say we have an in house team of scientists and they spend their time scouring the scientific traffic marketplace so to speak of looking at all the best in class literature and i would say it's both easy and it's not easy because there's a lot of work that goes into deciding whether or not ingredient a safer us to use that so pretty laborious process but once we feel like there's enough evidence that there's an ingredient that has enough questions around it then the decision is easy <hes> to put that ingredient on the number list and the reason for that is because we have <hes> a kind of precautionary approach to formulating our our products and so we you know we would rather be safe than sorry and you know you asked about the word questionable. There's a lot of kind of gray area because there's a bunch of data gaps so we're we wanna use an ingredient but there really isn't any scientific literature around it. We don't automatically assume that is safe and so that's that's worth word. Questionable comes in and you know. Science is both <hes> really focused but it's also kind of an art at the same time and so we i was kinda. Use that guiding in principle a better safe than sorry in that precautionary approach when deciding how we add ingredients to that list because guess what the consumer base is super savvy the and were the leader in clean beating in order to maintain that competitive edge. We always need to be ahead of the curve but your second question. It's basically it's really hard to formulate and bring products to market when you have such a restrictive list so imagine you're going to bake a cake but you can't use flour sugar and eggs. That's kind of the scenario wherein here at beauty counter and part of the reason i think the marketplace has rewarded us because in spite of having very limited tools in the toolbox and having kind of a limited portfolio of ingredients us. We've still successfully brought incredibly high quality high performing products the market that work in a way that your everyday consumer really wants and expects. How much overlap do you have with the indie side of the company. You know um. I'm so under my department safety sustainability giving an advocacy are all part of my team and so the safety team works really closely with r._n._d. And product development <hes> it's a really intimate working relationships so i have a fair amount of exposure to it which is personally and professionally really interesting. Are there chemicals that you wish it could be on the list but they're not because we haven't figured out a better way to do it. Yeah there's a bunch. I actually <hes> you know we're bringing on a green chemist to add to our kind of scientists portfolio here beauty counter to help us crack some of those questions because i think there's a bunch of ingredients. We would either like to use them. We don't or we just don't have enough information about and green. Chemistry is helping kind of pave the way for finding in creating new ingredients that perform armor function the way you want them to product while still being benign to yourself in the environment. Where can you give some examples of those that are challenging right now. Our things that everyone in the industry uses in we. We wish that we could find something better. Yeah this other. Three categories that i think are the biggest challenges. The first of which which is preservatives the second is surfactant so those ingredients that help make something kind of foam or suds and then the third would be colorants used in makeup products so preservatives in particular are challenging because they are designed to kill. They're designed to kill mold yeast and bacteria and because of that they inherently apparently have a higher hazard profile however when you're thinking about bringing safe products the market it's not just about the ingredients you also have to make sure that your product doesn't spoil home because that's also a public health threat and so finding the safest preservatives on the market. I feel like we've effectively done however. We wish that we had other preservative -servative that we could use because all preservatives aren't created equal. They work in different ways. You need a different one in an ice cream than you do shampoo for example and <hes> so that's one of the first things that were tackling you know as a team to say how can we as a company not only create these great products but potentially innovate and create new ingredients radiance for the rest of the industry to us as well and do you think the bigger beauty brands out there have started to move in this direction as well or how much resistance do you see there just in the market as a whole i mean the market has absolutely transformed in the last five years. The big beatty players are definitely paying attention engine. They're coming out with our own clean lines. I see a lot of marketing that shows that they're formulating without certain ingredients and so clean beauty is definitely here to stay. It's not a flash in the pan and i think it just kinda underscores how the market has really shifted and people are asking tougher questions of the companies that they buy. I products from an ultimately once you kind of learn about this issue cheer earlier point it's hard to put on sham shampoo or lotion every day and not think about this because we do interact with products we use in our body in a fairly intimate way and so when you learn about it it makes you want to do better for yourself on your family. A fear that i have is as we i think the conversation around sustainability and some of these topics is really coming adding to the surface and it's great that a lot of consumers are starting to to put that you know at the top of their list when they're considering different products but now it creates a weird incentive for companies to go and develop some solution and keep it secret basically keep it to themselves <hes>. Is that something that you see in. How how do we fight that so that if we come up with a great new surfactant it becomes a thing that can be adopted more easily so that we can more quickly glee make beauty safer. He beat company. That's built on transparency and so we're doing things a little differently and i think it goes back to what i was. I was saying earlier which is when you have a c._e._o. Who doesn't come from the industry. You know she's more willing to do things that seem unconventional so the first thing is that we disclose disclose all of our ingredients including ingredients publicly so we kind of put all the ingredients in every single product out there for others to see <hes> and so definitely people are looking at that and kind of following suit and that's not necessarily a bad thing because we definitely want to lead the industry towards safer formulations but another for example this is we have a collaboration with tufts university in particular scientists on their team who is known kind of leading researcher on looking at the hormonal monal impacts of ingredients and materials and we're working right now to publish all of that all of our findings publicly so other competitors. This and other brands can see the kind of conclusions that we found because we think open sourcing. These types of studies is really important to help advance industry. What do you think if you were starting a brand new startup today and you're looking at any any market but let's just take the cosmetics one as an example. How would you approach this aspect of the business because you know there's there's so much that goes in if you're building in your team and you've got you know ten people and that's what you can afford like how much weight should start ups. Put on this area. I think specifically focusing on material and chemical safety is probably where i'd put the majority of my way. You know we care about sustainability deeply. We also care about advocacy cassini. Obviously that's where my kind of history of my career has been but those are things you can also tackle a little bit later but if you're a consumer facing company <hes> <hes> you know when you are starting and you're building products you are making choices about chemicals and ingredients and materials that are used that the public is definitely going to decide whether they're not they're going to buy your product and so i feel like if you have ten headcount in the beginning one of those should be really focused on chemical and materials safety because the ship has sailed old and consumers are asking about this question more and more and there's a pretty vibrant nonprofit community out there. That's doing a lot of education for people to ask these tough tough questions and so. I think it's important for companies to be asking those right questions because how you build your products. You have to go back and basically redo everything. If if you decide to care about this a few years later yeah. I think that's another way to ask that question would be to say what's easy to do when you're small and what what's easy you to do. When you become bigger lee we're involved in the packaging world and so one thing that we see is some startups have done a really good job at an early stage age choosing very strict principles like for example. We're only going to use f s c paper or something like that and when you start you can establish that as a strict strict guideline within your packaging and then once you've done it for a few years. It just becomes normal whereas like you said if you try to retrofit fit that into a product line that's already existing. It can be quite costly and complicated so i guess. Are there things that come to mind that are easier to do when you're smaller. I definitely think <hes> you hit the nail on the head so especially. If you look at sustainability is a field we started with a we have nevertheless which is restricted tricked list for the kind of formulations but we also have a a restricted list for packaging and starting with strong kind of company guidelines his early on makes it easier rather than making things harder as you launch but then if you look at for example early on we didn't offset all of our corporate travel <hes> for carbon emissions. That's that was a sustainability nice to have but was something that we didn't have the kind of time and capacity to take on but we now do now that we're a little but older as a brand so making those decisions early on i think the easier thing to do is to kind of have those strict formulating guidelines very early on to prevent the headaches and also as the company grows you just need to hire people that are aligned with that mission and willing to do the tough work because to us the packing packaging the example you just did packaging super tough and there's some cool innovative things on the market but they don't necessarily work for all products and so <hes> you know we found that hiring the people that are willing to roll up their sleeves and do the hard work to bring a product to market with oh strict. Guiding principles has been really key. Are there resources that you go to a lot of four research or people that you follow at their that you find are are constantly teaching you about the best practices yeah yeah i think <hes> i would say sustainable brands is a good resource especially when it comes to sustainability packaging those types of innovative things that are coming coming in the marketplace i also when it comes to the science around ingredients in safety. There's a website called environmental health news and they have a daily e mail called above the fold that basically curates all the top stories and environmental health the scientific world climate change that kind of stuff and delivers it so i feel like that's a good way for me to keep my finger on the pulse of what's happening out there but i'm also still really well connected to allow the leading organizations that i worked within d._c. That there learn how scientists help guide my thinking about where we need to go as well so some of the leaders in the field like an urgency the natural resources defense council and environmental defense cancelled as well cool. Put some link to that to those resources in the show notes. I'm curious about the senate. Bill passed in march. I would love for you to talk a a little bit about that because i was reading about it on diane feinstein's website but i would look for you to describe kind of your involvement in it and what what it was all about yeah so <hes> <hes> the senate bill was introduced in march so it had to be reintroduced. Every two years of the bill doesn't pass. It has to have a formal introduction so that's what happened this spring. We've worked on the personal care product safety act for over five years now long before the bill was actually even introduced and we're proud to have kind of helped raise the profile of <hes> this issue through directly lobbying senators and their staff as well as doing a bunch of the kind of mobilization work that we had talked about before so those district meetings with elected officials are consultants you know when they sell products they engage their clients and ask them to contact their elected officials. We have text action that takes less than a minute to engage with and so the bill once it gets across the finish line will fundamentally fix the flaws that i talked about before so first and foremost also will allow the f._d._a. To review ingredients for safety it will allow the f._d._a. To remove product from market like that hair straightening treatment. I talked about before and will also help increase transparency. You know the industry is a really it's a real secret industry so a lot of the ingredients and fragrances used don't have to be listed on the product so it kind of lift the veil of secrecy and it would help level the playing field when it comes to marketing claims so i think the legislation doesn't have every little element <hes> that i would like to see past but i'm also a realist and i know what it takes to get things passed in d._c. And i think it's a really good first step to bring us closer. Oh sir to <hes> safer products the people who listen to the news here about lobbying almost every day but i don't know if people really i know what that is what actually happens like on a day-to-day basis and what does that. What does that actually look like to you and do you see it as a <music> as a necessary evil. Even if you're trying to push forward this positive change it still requires all that effort and money and and stuff to be done. I mean no one grows up thinking. I wanna be a lobbyist for years. My parents were like your what people think of golf trips and like fancy dinners. That is not what i do for my job. It's not that glamorous lobbying is basically anyone can do it and whether it's at a state or federal level people are kinda shocked to realize realized you can just walk into any of the buildings you can walk into your senator's office without an appointment or anything and sit down and meet with someone the way it unfolds. It's a conversation and so for us. It's we share why we think to beating industry can do better why we think beady should be good for you. <hes> how the industry is broken and what we think the legislative fix for it is so we have kind of business or policy minded conversations but oftentimes like for example when beatty consultants agents are meeting with our elected officials in their hometowns. They're sharing why they care about this issue. So maybe they have a loved one who became sick and suddenly they had to think really differently currently about the products in their home or you know they learned about the lack of transparency and they felt kind of betrayed from the companies that they had been supporting over the years and so really it's sharing why you care about an issue advocating for an issue with a particular senator or their staff who represent them and i don't think there's there's anything inherently wrong with lobbying. I think <hes> unfortunately some of the loudest voices are people that can have a bunch of you know hired guns that spend a lotta time in d._c. But as we talked about before you know when i go into an office for example we have a really strong base of consultants in the state of tennessee the when i go in to meet with those offices they respond really differently to me then they do for another office where we don't have as many people calling in and so oh i think it's part of the kind of ecosystem of educating people on all the issues they need to know about because it takes a lot of expertise in order to ultimately pass what is good legislation. I've seen you call yourself a professional agitators. I guess i'm wondering what that means to you. Relative to lobbying yeah. I mean i think in order to be a lobbyist or an activist or you know someone. That's trying to change the status. Quo there is a certain level of education you have to have and so i am the youngest list of three and so i was out with a young kind of knowing sibling i found a career to channel that knowing like pestering you just have to like keep sticking with it and so i think you you know just knowing that if you're having a conversation with people they're not always going to agree with you but being okay with that kind of discomfort knowing that if you listened enough rather than you talk all the time you can find something that the person you're trying to convince cares about you can connect your issue to their values and so being professional agitators ter- is as satisfying but it's also a painstaking process yeah. I guess it goes back to what we were talking about. When it comes to calling your government officials officials you're elected officials in its anyone can only care about so many things at any given point. I mean like maybe three or five maximum. It's like how do you get the thing that you care about to rise up to the top three or ten or whatever it is that somebody else cares about. It seems like like kind of what your job is all about to some extent yeah and it's also about playing the long game so if i think about when i first started working on this issue you know no one knew what let b._p._a. In baby bottles was or flame retardants and it just felt very foreign it was i at the time we were definitely out there and we were responding to feel the science that was not out there but as far as the public is concerned there were like what are you talking to us about and now you'll be hard pressed to find a new mom who doesn't know about finding finding baby bottles that have the right material and the glass for plastic or asking really tough questions about what kind of car seat or baby crib should i be buying and that just goes to show the power of playing the long game and that kind of chronic persistence of making sure that your issue alternately does rise up in the agenda that doesn't happen overnight. Do you find that it's it's data or it's emotion that convinces people more it. It depends on who you're talking to you but i think it's a combination of both so we're all emotional beings and if you look at any of the kind of literature out there of how people start to care about certain causes it's generally some sort of emotional connection to a cause but ultimately if you don't have good science behind your 'cause you're not gonna be able to build a credible movement and so we've seen the kind of top leading institutions like the american academy pediatrics march of dimes like really well respected science base organizations nations have taken stances on this very issue which i think has been really important so it doesn't seem like it's just an issue that people are being emotional about out unnecessarily without it being actually rooted in a a solid field of science. What's your personal point of view on. How social media has affected politics over the past several years like how do you think about that. Do you have an optimistic or pessimistic. Take on it. I think both i have mostly an optimistic. Take on it. I particularly love twitter for that reason. It's it creates accessibility where you don't necessarily have it unlike facebook and instagram than i think it has changed just how people learn about issues. I think social media has also made it people that weren't politically active a few years ago now feel like they can be in user voice suit through social media so i think it's mostly a good thing. The thing i'm not optimistic about is when you start to get into the conversation about foreign interests kinda taking over and in creating fake news or fake political ads that help kind of add to the divisiveness of our country so i think we definitely need to tackle that problem which is a major threat torma democracy but ultimately social media has been a really powerful tool for us <hes> here a beauty counter to help spread the word and get people engage in intrigued read about the botha work that we're doing but holiday can use that to <hes> help inform their elected officials. The social media's is so new relative tip to the history of time and media over the past one hundred one hundred fifty years and it seems to me like we're maybe just now starting to do. It's kind of going through this teenage moment where we're starting to understand exactly the boundaries of what should exist and maybe this is my optimistic take that maybe we can kind of hit a new level in the next five years where most people are educated about. I guess what to trust on the internet net and and that kind of stuff yeah. Is that something you see like. We're getting more educated about what to what to trust online yeah. I definitely see that and it kind of reminds. That's me aside. I just had my sixteen year old niece staying with me last weekend and you know she's kind of like i would assume she's spending her entire day on social media but she's of the age where she's kind kind of almost over. It makes me realize like okay. Things are moving really quickly when it comes to the digital world but yeah i totally agree with you. What are you excited about. What are the things that you're working on on. Now that you wanna see get across the finish line one thing. I'm really excited about so this week on thursday. Ah i am heading to sacramento to lobby for a bill that would basically take the first major step in unraveling in what's called the fragrance loophole so stay with me for a second. If you flip over product and you look at the ingredient list we're used to seeing the word fragrance or parfume unfortunately leave that word is masking sometimes hundreds of different ingredients that make up that particular sent and unfortunately sense of products have have some of the worst ingredients so those that are linked to allergies and hormone disruption and so <hes> right now whether you buy a product in europe canada or the united states dates companies can keep those fragrance ingredients secret and in california. We've helped <hes> shepherd a bill across the senate. Now it's <hes> heading to the assembly floor and i think it's likely to pass this year. Knock on wood that would take the first major stop and kind of peeling back that curtain of secrecy for the consumer and again since the california market is so big <hes> if a bill like that passes in the state of california ultimately has a ripple effect across the entire country and the industry at large so so. I'm really excited about that. We've got some beauty consultants who are joining us as well as we're partnering with a bunch of kind of leading nonprofits in the fields and we'll be spending the day in sacramento. Oh so i'm really excited and kind of encouraged by that work because even for someone like myself in the beginning of this legislative session. I thought oh i feel like it's probably going to take years to get at this. Bill passed but we've been really excited by how quickly it's been moving. I haven't given you any time to think about this but i'm the throw it out there. Maybe another answer will come to you later. But are there any free ideas. You just want to give to people now just to say like i'm not going to get around to this but someone needs to take up this thing and run with it okay. If someone can create an entire portfolio of release safe colorants that'd be the first one discolor answer really hard most of them that are naturally occurring in the earth do contain some sort of heavy metals just because heavy metals kinda tag onto the color and so. I think that's a major opportunity. I think we have so much work to do on packaging especially packaging as it relates to the beauty industry finding that kind of elevated look that looks really beautiful that people want to have in their home is really different than buying a mushroom plastic for your laundry detergent for example so i feel like beauty. Sustainable packaging is another thing that i would love for someone just to run with and then i can't think of a third right now but is there anything in the in the world of policy that you have on your to do list but it's like ten years down the line. Yeah i think probably establishing some understanding of marketing claims so if you see green all natural nontoxic none of those are are regulated right now and they mean really different things to different people in the companies who are using them and so. I think that's another legislative thing on the list where i feel like if if someone could tackle that and do it well because of it's done poorly it could be a major. It could set the industry back but if someone could do that well and put some good thinking in the same way that the u._s._d._a. best a._d._a. Has really good definitions around organic. I would love for someone to take that on and if not rest assured beatty counter still has on our long long laundry list to tackle in a few years beauty counter is beauty counter dot com. If people wanna go learn more as anything else you wanna point people to if they're particularly fascinated by the conversation that we had i think two things so if you on our website if you check out the nevertheless it's the top list of offenders in beating personal care products. I would compare the products you have at home to the nevertheless just to kinda see where you're starting and the second is a tool by the environmental working group called skin indeed where you can type in your product and it ranks it on a scale from one to ten. It doesn't have all products but has a lot of them in it again kind of gives you a gauge of what's the safety ingredients in the products. I'm using my skin every day so i think those are two really good places to get started. You've also got your own personal website and twitter. Do you want to plug that at all. Sure yeah i write for. I actually haven't recently because i just had a baby but it's lindsey dot com and you can follow us on instagram beauty counter and you know hopefully you guys like in all the information that we share across the education product advocacy work that we're doing yeah. I'm also gonna plug. The co-founder jesse did an boxing beauty counter on our youtube channel so she can go check that out. It's just the lemme channel on youtube bob. Show is called shipping things so they do so much lindsay. This was a fascinating conversation. I hope people learn a lot. Thank you for having me <music> one last thing before we go. I'm talking to you at home. What's your favorite brand these days. Is there something that you think is really well-made well-made or maybe someone that you love for me to talk to send us a tweet. We are at laimi l. u. M. i. on twitter or making this show for you so tell us what you wanna hear and will make it happen. Thanks see next time.

d._c united states consultant greg senator europe connor sacramento california twitter washington product development senate congress senator feinstein Bill
How Money Impacts Mental Illness

A Bipolar, a Schizophrenic, and a Podcast

29:19 min | 1 year ago

How Money Impacts Mental Illness

"Ping freezes utterly escaped. Everyone falls. You're listening to a bi polar schizophrenic anna podcast. They're your hosts gave howard and michelle hammer everyone and thank you for listening to bipolar schizophrenic gets a front and a podcast. My name is gave. I live with bipolar disorder. Hi i'm michelle and i'm schizophrenic and by process of elimination our producer you sir lisa must be the podcast. I like that today. We are going to talk about money. I feel kind of weird about it. Because what is it. There's like three things that you're not supposed to discuss in civilized conversation religion politics and money. We've already covered religion now. We're gonna talk about money so politics is coming. I like money a big fan of money. I like like money. It's a question of liking money specifically. How does money the impact people living with mental illness and shocker. If you have money you're going to live better with mental illness. I would agree with that gave the more money you have the better you live with mental illness because you can afford a lot more stuff like there as psychiatrists psych meds. Those are the most expensive things that you need with mental illness mention thing i do and let's start there here for a moment. Let's consider the idea that if gabe howard has mental illness and michelle hammer has mental illness and then john doe has mental illness onus. It's reasonable to assume that all three of us would get the same level of care because we're all three people living with an an illness. So shouldn't we all don't we all deserve the same level of of treatment deserve yes but getting it absolutely not. Why do you think that is money money money on may. Do you think that the general public is okay with letting mentally ill people suffer just because they don't have health insurance or because they don't have resources or because they don't have money i think they must because they see these homeless people all over the place no most people with mental illness just hanging out on the street and nobody seems to be helping them. It's true the homelessness has has skyrocketed since the eighties with de institutionalization and i don't wanna fall down any sort of rabbit hole discussing whether or not institutions are good or bad. I'm just saying there's not a lot of help. Nope bigger cities will have things like peer centers or drop in centers or consumer operated services but even those are woefully woefully underfunded and understaffed and in many cases underutilized. We have the homeless shelters but they seem to be very much warehousing. They'll keep you out of the cold but they're not going to treat the underlying condition that led to your homelessness because you don't got enough money exactly let me share with you my train in story gave i was living with my roommate at the time ben and he used to catch me talking to myself a lot and i had this very strange mannerism of i would raise my harms up down. I would just talk. I'm reading the subway. One day and i looked down the train and there's a homeless man talking to himself in the exact mannerisms that i did and i realize to myself what what is the difference between me and this homeless man because obviously both schizophrenic and i realized i have a family i have friends and i have a doctor and if i didn't have those three things i could be homeless. Just like this man kind of any thank right there and made me think that i need to make a change and do something to try to advocate for the mentally. Ill one of other things that i love about that. Story is the fact that we realize you realize i realize that we realize how lucky we are and i think that a lot of people with mental illness don't realize how lucky they are to have health insurance or family or support or just some sort of intervention. I had money me and health insurance and resources but i didn't have support because my entire family didn't think that i was mentally ill. They thought that i was an asshole. They just thought that i was frankly. Just what an asshole they just thought i was an asshole and that i would somehow grow out of it and i was lucky i was lucky that somebody who recognized that i was sick intervened on my behalf and then of course i was lucky that i had no money and health insurance and and resources well something else i wanted to add was that i consider myself i self lucky as well also because my my mom and everything they noticed that there was a problem so they tried to get me help and i would have never gotten help on my own so who who knows where i would be without that. I was lucky that when i did go to college and realized there was a problem the health center with therapists psychiatrists. It was completely free for me to go now if i didn't have that opportunity. I don't know where i would be right now. I mean it's incredible that it was free and it's an opportunity that a lot of people don't have any health space. A lot of people can't get healthcare at all period period. You're sick tough shit. We don't care we've we've sort of made having health insurance in this country like a moral moral value and the morals. Don't end up where you think they're going to. We're no longer in the mode of help. The sick we're in the mode of the six should have thought about this before for they got sick and made goals and gotten health insurance and save some money and fix themselves. I i don't know how we got there but even putting all of that aside did even if you've done everything right you have insurance. You're covered by insurance. There's really not good mental health parity. We love to brag brag that we have mental health parity and for those who don't know mental health parity is defined as treating mental health and physical health exactly the same. We pretend that we we have it. There's a lot of advocacy groups across the country who bragged that we have it but in actuality. We don't have it at all because you would never hear oh. You've been diagnosed just with cancer. You can see your oncologist four times but all the time we hear oh you were diagnosed with bipolar disorder. You can see your therapist four times times. There's upward limits even in my health insurance which thanks to my beautiful beautiful wife is fantastic. I can only see a therapist twenty twenty six times a year before they stopped paying so if i'm not well at the end of those twenty six visits tough shit. That's not parody so what what are you supposed to do then then. I don't even understand and also think about it. What does that therapist. You're going to what if they suck will. Some of those visits will be wasted and i have to get a new therapist. I know people that have gone to psychiatrists that are given to them through different programs but i know these people and they're not okay whatever psychiatrists that are going to is is not a good psychiatrist. They're always switching beds that are trying new things going off things and they are not well so that psychiatrists that are going to is just wasting their time. Hi and it's not doing good for. Let's be fair to psychiatrists and medical providers. We're not saying that they're a bad psychiatrist overall or a bad medical provider overall. We're we're saying that it's not a good fit. It's not a good fit for that psychiatrist and that patient and when it comes to the way that mental illness and mental health is treated in this country treated medically you have to have that good relationship because if you're a person who lives with schizophrenia and you're paranoid and for whatever reason you don't trust your psychiatrist i you're not going to share the correct information. You're going to be fearful and scared and they're not going to be able to get it out of you. I was very lucky. I had a psychiatrist actress that i was terrified of. He scared the hell out of me so i just got a new psychiatrist. Do you know how lucky i was thinking about that for a moment. I don't like this guy. I want a new person. Okay the wow just dripping dripping yeah with privilege dripping am emma college. When i was seeing a psychiatrist. There was just the one psychiatrist so if i didn't like her. There was no other option. I had to only speak to her and i didn't even know anything thing about psych meds or anything at that time so i just did what she told me to do. And that's what i thought was right and that's what i did and that's very problematic because again if you don't make that connection action if it's not working it's not reasonable to think that every single doctor is going to connect with every single patient and i'm not speaking psychiatry or mental ansell health period period. You know michelle. You have gone to college if you didn't feel comfortable with your gynecologist. Wouldn't you switch gynecologist. Absolutely absolutely you'll uncomfortable with you know your lady doctor is probably very important to you. Yes my lady doctor. I really loved that. You picked gynecologist richest gabe internist or anything else but you picked gynecologist. I like that one of the reasons that i picked gynecologists is because one i just. I just think that that is a specialty that you'd probably want to have some comfort. You'd want to be comfortable with your provider and to gynecologist or a specialist a general practitioner practitioner an internist and nurse practitioner. There's a lot of them. Those are easy to find. Those are a dime a dozen. I'm not insulting any of them but you and i both know twenty places where where we can see an internist or a general practitioner no problem but there's less psychiatrists because it's a specialty and your insurance company will cover less <unk> specialists. Some of those specialist gynecologist oncologist psychiatrist might not be on the list so even if they're fantastic and you love them. Forget it you. I can't see them because your insurance won't cover which is ridiculous and also there's insurance and covering psych meds as well. I take a lot of psych meds. Insurance covers some some of it if i didn't have insurance cover in some of my psych meds. I can't even tell you the astronomical amount of money i would have to pay that is an excellent point. I have insurance and i have a really good insurance and my quarterly bill for medication is about four hundred dollars. That's my co pay. Hey my copay is four hundred dollars so roughly one hundred and thirty three dollars. A month is what i spend on medication and the insurance company is picking up a large portion of the tab so could you imagine let's forget about that insurance company portion. Can you imagine asking somebody who's living on and disability or somebody who can only work part time or somebody with very limited resources to come up with an extra one hundred and thirty three dollars a month just further medication. We haven't talked about co pays yet to see the psychiatrist or copays to see the therapist or anything like that. Were purely talking medication. That's a lot of money. That's a lot a lot of money. Yes you go to the psychiatrist for help. They prescribed medication for help can't afford the money for the psych meds ed's. You can't even be helped. It's just like an ever ever going nonsense of helped me. How can i get help if i have no money doesn't make any sense. Nobody nobody can get help. If you have no money it's not okay. It's not fair. It makes no sense. Mental healthcare needs to be free. It needs to be easier to access insurance. Somethings that change gave. I don't even know what to say about it. It's just not cool. You're a dirty socialist. I guess i am kidding. Obviously i agree that it should be free because a lot of people are impoverished. They don't have the money to do this and another point that can be made about medications. Is let's talk about the newly diagnosed. You're prescribed a medication. You're on it for two or three weeks. You have a bad reaction to it and you need to go back to the psychiatrist and get a new medication well. That's another co pay to see. The psychiatrist and you have to buy the medication again. One of the reasons that i can save money is because i can get the three month on prescription and that is cheaper but it's still a lot of money and i'd like to point out. I think this is a good pro tip for our audience. I was able to save money by getting on on the manufacturer's website and finding one of those discount cards so one of my medications my copay would actually be four hundred dollars for a ninety day supply lie but because i have that discount card it lowered it to one hundred and eighty dollars for a ninety day supply and that's my most expensive medication the out of pocket it cost meeting if i had no insurance is about twelve hundred dollars for a ninety day supply so if i had no insurance and i needed this medication i best. I have twelve hundred dollars. That's four hundred dollars a month. That's a car payment. Yes that's a car payment with insurance. Maybe a little bit of gas. You can't always get every single drug. They are on for ninety days because some are controlled substances that don't allow that so you have to actually go to the doctor every single month to get that new prescription so you can get it for that month because the coal controlled substance thing right which is another co pay to the psychiatrist and again. You're not buying in bulk. This is why sam's club. I've been cost over there so great. You can get a thousand pickles for six bucks. I've always wanted a thousand pickles for six bucks. Thanks cape are believed that you have a pickle barrel in your house. I don't know why but i'm positive it's there. I think you need to go see your psychiatrist about that. There's another co pay. We'll be right back after we hear from our sponsor. This episode is sponsored by better help dot com secure convenient and affordable online counseling. All counsellors are license accredited professionals anything you share is confidential all scheduled secure video or phone sessions plus chat and text with your therapist whenever you feel it's needed a month of online therapy often cost less than a single traditional face to face session shen go to better help dot com forward slash psych central and experienced seven days of free therapy to see if online counseling is right for you better help dot com forward slash psych central troll and we are back talking about this crazy shit. We've covered the crisis expensive. We've covered that health. Insurance is important. We've covered that it's expensive to be sick sick. I don't think that anybody surprised by that but i think that people are surprised at how expensive it is to be well. We're in recovery gabe and michelle live in recovery. We have a podcast. We have relationships. We we live by ourselves. We go on vacation so people look at us and they think oh well well clearly. This is not a problem you're you're okay but the maintenance drugs the maintenance care because there's no cure for severe and persistent mental illness. There's no cure no cure. Are you cured the show. I am not cured no way dude. I'm not cured from bipolar and there's no cure for anxiety major depression. You need maintenance treatment. That's really expensive and i don't just mean the cost of medication. We already covered that. Let's talk about opportunity cost. Let's talk about how expensive it is to not be able to do the jobs that you're trained for because you need accommodations and michelle. You are an excellent example of this because you were hired by new york works city graphic design firms. You have a college degree and you are exceptionally talented. You got hired what eight times eight different firms yes eight jobs which i was fired from. Yes i love that you always loved to bring it up gabe but yeah i was fired from h odds and it was never because of my design ability it was is always because of symptoms of schizophrenia. I had a huge dream of being amazing creative director and agency but i couldn't do it. I couldn't handle working working so i had to work for myself. Who knows where i'd be right now. If i had that amazing creative director job that i've always wanted to have maybe i'd be making making tons and tons and tons of money like i always thought i would be making. Maybe i'd have bet huge apartment that i would always thought i wanted and everything like that but i'm not 'cause i couldn't do it. Michelle forget about all the pie in the sky creative executive master director living in the giant manhattan apartment. I i don't know if you could have gotten there or not. Screw that. Let's talk about the jobs that you got on day. One were these full-time jobs that came with health insurance. Yes yeah and isn't health insurance something that oh. I don't know we discussed is really helpful to people who have chronic illnesses. L. must definitely sir but you're chronic illness. Onus prevented you from working full time at the jobs that offered the benefits that you need it in order to be well yet so you had to work on your own. Which is i'm so so glad that you were able to reach recover schizophrenia and start your own business but does your business come with free health insurance included in the package it it does not have to get my own health insurance so you have to make enough money to not only support yourself but to also pay for health insurance yet. It's fun and pay all the additional funding costs you know the medication the co pays and just out of curiosity and remember that beautiful wife that i have <hes> <hes> my health insurance is included in my wife's job and is like really inexpensive and your health insurance costs a lot of money that you have to pay for every every single month and which one of us michelle has better health insurance yeah lower copays and lower deductibles yeah so we even though i have more resources you get less yet. That's the system. This is the system that we have created to help sick people in america. Get a job so that you can have health insurance so if you get sick you'll be covered but of course if you're already sick. Nobody's going to hire you because you can't work so you're gonna have to find another way now. Let's forget about starting a business because not everybody can start a business but many people living with mental illness and we know them. They're great people. They can work. Part-time part-time does not get health insurance but you need health insurance because you're chronically. Ill hello government. Okay okay but but thankfully there's the the safety net. We're so happy. There's a safety net. Just get on disability and you'll be fine because being on disability comes with really really great benefits benefits and enough money to live disability gets you about <hes> sixteen grand a year usually and if you go over sixteen grand you'll lose your disability. Wait a minute so you're saying that disability doesn't cover the expenses to live even meagerly now. Now wanna know if you make more. You'll lose your disability. You'll live in poverty. You live in poverty or you live in poverty but you could get a job and then like you can get a part time job with your disability yeah but if you go over sixteen grand you'll lose your disability so basically you have to be poor or you have to be poor or you have to be poor. You can't be poor with mar- money yesterday. Poor poorer poor poor and porn poor poor. When you're on disability you can usually get on medicaid that then turns into medicare. You really utilized that with all of your psychiatrists. Therapists and psych meds so you can health insurance here is to take care of your illness yes but if you make more money you'll lose it all wait. Wait wait hang on so you're telling me the system is set up so that people get disability and then medicaid and then are discouraged from working because if they work they'll lose their health insurance and then get gets sick and all kinds of bad things will happen to them. Yes yes and we call this a safety net if you are on medicaid or medicare and disability and you happen open to get married to someone who makes say who knows thirty grand a year. Let's just say you get married. Guess what your benefits go away by by benefits. You now make too much money with your household income because it's tied into their income yes because you know that i belong to you found in house. I know people are partners. The reason why they're partners are not married right because if they got married they both lose their benefits so now we're discouraging people from getting married. It makes no sense. It just doesn't make any sense that disability not means. You have to stay poor to be on disability. I don't understand the safety net. There is no safety net. The important thing that society needs to remember is that we're doing lean our part to care for the mentally ill and if they're not getting better. It's their own fault for being lazy. That's the takeaway right. Can we all agree that that's the takeaway the safety that that is already on the ground say that it's too low the season. It's almost underground. I think you have to go through the ground to hit the safety net and they're like oh we maybe we should have raised it a little bit and then maybe it's on the grass. No the reality is as many people who get on disability. They can't get off off of it and the reason that they can't get off of it is not because they're not trying. It's not because they don't want off of it. It's because they can't make enough money fast enough because their choices are to either not have a job and have a little bit of money a little bit of resources and health insurance which is just vitally important to people who are living with serious and persistent mental illness but if they get that part time job if they go work at mcdonald's if they go well anybody can flip burgers. You're right anybody can but the minute they take at that job. They make too much money and the minute they make too much money. Remember part time jobs. They do not have to give you health insurance and in fact they don't so now the person is making. We'll say eleven dollars an hour. You know what i'm gonna generous mood. They're making thirteen dollars an hour which i don't know these mcdonald's that are paying thirteen thirteen dollars an hour across the country but let's pretend that they are they don't have health insurance and because they don't have health insurance. They can't afford the full cost of medication of psychiatrists of case management. They can't afford any of these things so all of the sudden their wellness starts to slip because they can't afford it so before you yeah no it instead of living in recovery with mental illness they're just mentally ill and they have nothing and they know this going in so your choices to live on disability and mind your own business or to get off of disability and immediately start making forty five thousand dollars a year with benefits. I don't so many people that can go from disabled to working full time with benefits. Most people need to ramp up. They need help. They need had support. They need vocational training and many of these things do not exist for people we are creating a society of helpless people because we will will not give them the resources that they need listen. It's expensive to be mentally. Ill and we're not providing people with what they need but were there standing over them calling them lazy and telling them that they're not trying when my friend was on the phone with disability and they were telling her that she can only make sixteen grand and a year and they were asking. How am i supposed to live on this amount of money. The woman on the phone said i understand this is why you should call your congressman so great now in addition to being sick. We also have to call politicians and argue with them because everybody knows that people living with mental illness have a lot of clout with the politicians call the congressman and complain. That's really going to get you far yeah okay and every mentally ill person on disability yeah. They should all complaining call other congressman. Okay what are you. What could you imagine if all the mentally ill people in the world started calling politicians one that would be hilarious but a two they wouldn't give a shit yeah seriously. Oh my gosh. I figured it out. We just need to hire a lobbyist. I mean politicians listened to lobbyists. We need a mentally. Ill oh lobbyist. Let's see if only we were voting block if only yeah but people just don't care people just don't care and that's why we need more people to speak up and we need more people to to stop saying shit like oh my god. You're so lazy. Get a part time job. There are huge barriers that we did not erect in our way and ad iraq. These are not our our faults. We are trying trying to get over them. If you've been listening to this podcast call your congressman than say what just out of curiosity you. You can just say hi hi congressman. How are you doing today. I think that disability should be raised. You're doing good if you're doing good or don't be congressman anymore. That's what i think congressman male or female. Whoever i'm speaking to there you go peace clearly. I think we need a more refined into message. I do not think that congress people and senators and politicians are aware. I don't think they're aware i think that they believe that the safety net is sufficient and that its helping people and then it saving people but it's not it's not more people are slipping through the cracks that are being helped by the safety fifty nets and this is why we have revolving doors. This is why we have people who are in and out of the hospitals. This is why we have homelessness. This is why we have people getting on disability and never getting off. This is why we have people not living up to their full potential and this is how come gabe and michelle are rare because we're in recovery. We should not be rare. We we should not be rare. We should be the status quo. I don't understand how people walk all over the city and see these mentally ill homeless people and and just walk by and don't z. that it's a mental health issue and that it's a money issue and that it could be solved just need free mental healthcare. I just can't understand that they just brushed them off over there. Just drug addicts and crazy and it could be fixed. It could be fixed but it's just stigma. Oh they're home wasn't crazy. No no it could be fixed and people ignore it ignored all the time and that's that's what i try to show people. There's people with mental illness living well when they have help and there's people with mental illness living unwell when they have no help. It's not okay. It's not cool. Things need to change if treatment is available recovery is likely it really really is but so many people can't access basic care care. It's shameful richest country in the world we have people sleeping under bridges and dying and the winner absolutely it's disgusting mirka michelle. I don't want to end the show on a hopeless. It's not new york. City is where you live didn't go out on a photo shoot. Yeah totally. I friends cecilia mcgowan and joy irving. We are all schizophrenic and we did a little a photo shoot at the oculus which is right near the new world trade center and i post a little post and i wrote schizophrenics are taking over the city and it's just really awesome. I really add a lot of fun. What kind of reaction did you get because you're you're three attractive. Young women and you're wearing clothing says don't be paranoid. You look great and you're making a lot of commotion and noise. Did you gather a crowd. We gathered kind of a crowd. People thought it was pretty cool. They were asking us about it and we just told them the whole deal. We live with schizophrenia. It's a funny we live well. We're trying to change what people think about mental health. It was fun. We had a good time. You'll see more photo soon. Yeah it was pretty cool and you can check out the pictures on your instagram which is chess like the website schizophrenic that n._y._c. Thank you everybody for tuning into this week's episode of a bipolar schizophrenic and a podcast. Maybe next week we will let our producer lisa talk more but frankly it's. It's gave a michelle show. Subscribe to our show on your favorite podcast player and share our episode on social media or how just e mail it to your mom. Mom's love us. We don't know about dad's yet. We haven't done the research project. We will see everybody next week. Call your congressman. You've been listening to bipolar schizophrenic and a podcast. If you love this episode don't keep it to yourself head over to itunes. Who are your preferred podcast app to subscribe rate review to work with gabe go to gave howard dot com to work with michelle will go to schizophrenic dot n._y._c. for free mental health resources online support groups had over to psych central dot com shows official website is psych central dot com slash b. s. p. you you could email us at show at central dot com. Thank you for listening share widely. Can you pay my bills sales. Can you pay telephone sales k._f._i. A._m. Automobiles and maybe you don't think you do so oh you and me through whatever yet doesn't xiao left eye. Lopez changed everything i was t._l._c. She's still changed. Everything dead were to be onsite come from d._c. She's way better lemonade becky with the blonde hair. Put a ring on it and then you take the ring back by she sleep in. Oh you've seen that using video right. Did we stop recordings ratings people. Oh sorry unstop. You should delete that other stuff. Yeah fuck all right one two three nine.

michelle hammer gabe howard congressman bipolar disorder producer lisa new york ben america d._c cape xiao Lopez director iraq
ICYMI - Jeffrey Wright on Giving Back to Veterans in "We Are Not Done Yet"

The Daily Show with Trevor Noah: Ears Edition

10:24 min | 1 year ago

ICYMI - Jeffrey Wright on Giving Back to Veterans in "We Are Not Done Yet"

"You're listening to comedy central. Please welcome Jeffrey Rights Yeah. This is an amazing audience kidding me Cou. He has are amazing. Can I just say I mean I've known you for a few years but it's always would speaking to you post westworld because there are moments when I'm not sure if you are you and I'm sure you get this for many people. You're so good playing that role has that just become mm. Something that you accept now is people waiting to see if you twitch. I do glitch from time getting myself away actually as well have a little bit of metal in this D- Now so I think that's kind of an upgrade on my on my niece surgery about a month ago yeah fixing old A._C._l.. Injury but so that's where you went away okay. We've seen the show they take you away. They repay you and then you come back. We get it get it but you here for very different reasons and I and I guess on time today. In the United States people are remembering veterans who fought in World War One and you'll documentary we're not done yet is a big part about people who have survived fighting. Outing in war veterans who suffer P._T._S._D.. It's a powerful story and what you do is you you connect all of them to us and to each other using theater and poems. How did you even stop this process? It's a good question I you know over time I I kind of grew up and became a little more aware and a little more appreciative of the men and women who serve I think one of the mistakes that was made after Vietnam was that some some of US conflated the politics of that war with the people who answered the call and I think that'd be a huge mistake right now so I just my respect based on relationships that I developed with people who are veterans based on inexperience in Sierra Leone going over there in two thousand one during the war peace ceasefire at the time but the first war zone that I'd ever experienced and it changes your thinking those things that you want took for granted like security you no longer take for granted. You don't take for granted that when the order falls away somebody has to work to restored so there are a number of experiences over time that that increased my respect and I was doing the group of of readings called theater of war guy named Brian Dory's who uses the Greek tragedies as a platform. I'm for conversation about the consequences of war and he doesn't in military communities. He even does it in inner city communities around gun violence he he for example argues that Ajax Story. That's an examination of what we might contemporary call P._T._S._d.. G._S._T.. And so was doing those and I went down to DC for one of these readings in there happened to be some people from the Pentagon there and I asked hey is there any way I can get more closely involved and in fact a couple of weeks before that I had been out in Colorado Colorado at an airport rural airport with my kids coming home from vacation skiing and there was a guy sitting in a wheelchair all all the decorations there and he was triple amputee and he recognized me and I went <music> over and I said hello and we talked and he talked about the people from my line of work who had visited him at Walter Reed He'd been hit by a mortar shell and Afghanistan and it just like rocked the house like man. What am I doing with my time that I can at least go down and see if I can be useful to so when I did this reading in D._C.? Met these folks in the Pentagon said Hey you know what can I do. They call me back. Somehow I pass the vetting process where the Pentagon and introduced me to a woman named seamer razor who runs a writing workshop veterans who were working through their trauma through poetry and one of them had the idea to put on a staged reading of collective poems that they had written and I was asked what I come down in the directive <hes> you know I never served but I know something about the theater so I came down and <hes> it was a life changing experience working with them. It's interesting that you say there are certain things we take for granted such a security a lot of America's a military and a low of the troops have been politicized because of who is in Powell and when and how one thing that is apparent is that America seems to discard any of its troops when these people come home you see so many people that are that are loaded and applauded when they're out fighting but when. People come home. They struggled to find jobs. They struggled to find their place in society and time and time again we see these conversations where people saying is America doing enough for the troops who are no longer active. Is it as important. What did you find when you spoke to the human beings behind the uniform? The answer to that question is no and I think one of the things that I'm proud about about this film is that it gives voice to those men and women who know best those men and women who put themselves selves on the line and these are veterans who experienced P._T._S._d.. From combat but also sexual assault related to their military experience but we don't hear from them and we hear from the politicians and the blowhards who actually use these men and women to divide us so we have a conversation about police brutality and all of a sudden the troops are brought into that conversation conversation about immigration all of a sudden. We're deploying troops down there who are going to sit and do what doc fire on women and children can you imagine the optics of something like that. Can you imagine the act itself right so but we hear the troops manipulated in the vets manipulated for political agendas but we we don't hear from them and those very issues that are used as as political tools are not addressed so you still have twenty per day dying from suicide. We heard a lot about that during the campaign. Not so much anymore but the rates are still the same right. It's a powerful program that you put together and what's great in watching this documentary. is you see the human side and all of these people come out you know for so long people have looked at them as only troops. I always see people saying thank you for your service awesome and that becomes a thing. It's a it's a it's an archetype that people hold up right but the human comes out on the other side. Why was poetry so powerful? Why do you think the odds was something that helped a lot of these veterans well because I think they have stories? He's and maybe as a result of the military culture stories around vulnerabilities and stories around injuries that they can't communicate within that space but there's a need to communicate it otherwise as they describe it will kill them right so they need to get it out. They need to purge themselves of the shame of what they might not have been able to do. Perhaps the shame of what they did <hes> the the the injury as a result of losses that they experienced sexual assault as well. They have these things that they need to release in order to free themselves of these demons and they need to be heard so oh that one they can perhaps be validated and perhaps be seen without judgment but also what they describe is. They want to speak as a show of leadership for others. There's who are like them right because there are thousands like them the we I think what we do at Veterans Day is wonderful to honor the vets of course we honor the men and women who put themselves in harm's way on our behalf. But I think at the same time what we do perhaps too much is we impose our sense of who they are onto them because it was a really stunning moment when we were working together in this piece and we show it in the film in which one one of the vets is reading a poem words that he's written and he comes to the word heroic and he can't say it because he doesn't he's conflicted right about what his heroism with that were means for him and so <hes> rather than listen to them and hear that they may be in pain they may have chain <hes> vay just mean perhaps are confused or whatever the emotions are around this. It's not what we perceive them to be. It's not so easy and the thank you for your service is great but they need a little more. They I need to be heard so that we can begin to understand them so I I mean I think what we do. is we either kind of claim them as our own we misunderstand them or we ignore them and the problems that they're facing generational homelessness suicide and if we're GONNA solve those problems we're not going to solve them by talking ourselves. We're going to them first by acknowledging them by hearing them listening to them and not making assumptions based on our own misperceptions will thank you so much documentaries that I've done. We're not done yet as cozying H._B._O.. And is available to stream on H._B._O.. Now and each meal you really WanNa Watch jiffy right everybody the daily show.

Pentagon America US assault Colorado Brian Dory D._C Vietnam Sierra Leone seamer Walter Reed Powell Afghanistan
AT#665 - National Parks in and near Washington D.C.

The Amateur Traveler Podcast

51:07 min | 1 year ago

AT#665 - National Parks in and near Washington D.C.

"The bags bags and read it's go fast board Tama Traveler episode six hundred and sixty five today today. The Amateur Traveler Talks About Monuments Memorials and Mansions Battlefields Gardens and at least one theater as we talk about the national parks in and near Washington D._C.. Welcome to the amateur traveler. I'm your host Chris Christensen. Let's talk again about national parks. I'd like to welcome back to the show Eric Smith who's come to talk to us about national parks again and this time in the capital region Eric. Welcome back to the show. Thanks for having me back this and if we say welcome back that means he's been on before. We don't know exactly how many times Erica's thinking eight times I know he came on. I talking about national parks. You have been in a long term quest to see all of the national park sites and ever changing growing list of places yeah with most of the stuff in the West in <hes>. I'm not putting Alaska Hawaii on that but <hes> hopefully I'll get to those someday but the lower forty eight down into the twenties thirties left so that scattered all over the country nothing I can do on one good long road trip but this time we're talking about the Washington D._C.. Area Yeah we haven't talked about D._C.. On the show in quite a long time and it's not because it's not an interesting area and one of the things that makes it an interesting area is the national parks so we're going to take us to eric the best place to start with Washington D._C.. Is the National Mall which is run by the National Park Service and while there isn't anything that says National Park on the National Mall there are obviously a bunch of monuments and memorials also on this quintessential piece of American geography right there in downtown Washington DC. I was looking at this sort of geographically and the first rule monument that you'll come to the one that stands out the most in the D._C.. Skyline and that's The Washington Monument and it will have one point in time was the tallest building in the world and is still the world's tallest obelisk for people who are listening to this currently. It's doing some upgrades in the elevator. The top is actually closed but it's supposed to open within a couple months here in August of two thousand nineteen but <hes> the elevator right at the top provides lookout over all of these monuments that we're GonNa talk about the White House just blow it is well. It's a really striking monument. It's surrounded by fifty American flags at the Base Ace. If you look at the Washington monument at its two different colors the lower part of it was when they ran out of money for it in eighteen fifty four and they didn't get back to building it till eighteen seventy six. If you look closely at it you can see the two different colors of the monument because they're realized is that was the difference in collect okay interesting and when you say it used to be the tallest building in the world it was the dose building in the world for a year yeah not long late eighteen eighty surpassed by the Eiffel Tower in eighty nine interesting the I didn't know that it was ever the tallest building in the world interesting. Yes it was ended saw united been up there a few times and it's certainly it gives you a bird. I view over D._C.. D._C.'s what are these metropolis series. It doesn't have the skyscrapers that that most major cities do so this is one of the places you can really get a great bird's eye view look like say you look down the other end of the mall to the Lincoln Memorial and then the Capitol building on the other side so you can see pretty much everything they're in it. WIT is opened to to go to the top. It's they advised even on the N._P._S.. Website to get your tickets well in advance. I was there in less than D._C.. Was Sixteen and there was I had planned the trip three months out for the three days I was there. I still could get tickets so you know you're going to go so get your tickets while in advance because it's an experience probably WanNa have just across the park from the Washington. Monument is the White House and the White House is part of the National Mall so it is part of the National Park Service. They're part of their big umbrella that they cover sure but the tours are not run by the National Park Service they do have a visitor center off site that most people go and see the tours are arranged through your congressman and those are also kind of hard to get as well an US should be set up while in advance as well but the National Park Service they take care of the ellipse which is on the one side in Lafayette Park which is on the other where a lot of people get the classic usable sides of the White House. The newest one of the newest memorials is the World War Two memorial which is one of my favorite old really <hes> I you and I may disagree on that but okay. I really love this one and I've seen it in the day and at night but I'm talking about the mall one of the biggest vices I can give us. I love the mall at night monuments so well lit and so just so uh-huh striking at night and if you're in photography bring a tripod and some of the pictures you'll get with these memorials are just amazing so you don't agree on the war memorial not my favorite of the memorials there in the mall I in fact I would say the Korean memorial which is very near it is I think a more striking memorial and then obviously the Vietnam memorial is is quite striking sure yup in there's also there's been a lot of everybody has a difference of opinion on this some people I did read in leading up to this podcast that some people thought there were two memorial was a little too Gaudy and when they did build it there was some trouble with it because it was it was a place where there used to be used to have a lot of protests that were held there now that there's memorial there it was one of those spots were had become famous American history for protests in demonstrations being held and when they when they built this memorial there that took away that spot I've been there at night and the fountains the way they're lit and <hes> there's fifty six pillars representing all of the states and territories that were there at the time of World War Two and then also there's the freedom wall which is a <unk> has a star four thousand forty eight stars representing each representing one hundred casualties from World War too and that is also at night just absolutely gorgeous when it's lit up and it's very striking very very moving to see this so just to the north of their constitution gardens which is a lot of what we're going to talk about with the National Parks in the D._C.. Area are parklands at our beautiful greenspace. Not all of them are places to go in and see sights necessarily but the since you see the park system there isn't run by the city most of it is run by the national the park service and we'll talk about a bunch of those great green spaces constitution gardens is one of those there is a small memorial to the signers of the Declaration of independence in there and crossing over from Constitution Gardens is to one or the other memorials you. I'm sure you would agree is very touching. As the Vietnam Veterans Memorial the dark wall with the names engraved and relatives and family members for years have been taking paper and a pencil or Cran to do some etchings of their loved. Ones names were on the wall I there there's always flowers at the base and some people leave mementos of their loved one. This is one of those memorials at so understated. I mean it's just not big flashy but it sort of captures what how the Vietnam War was actually thought in American history was so much of it was covert and so much of it wasn't in it wasn't a big flashy war like some of the other ones that we had had been this was a unique American experience in the memorial really captures that and as I recall it's a chronological list. No I never heard that that would be really interesting. I know they do have some ways. You can look up people who you may know you are able to go through some of the resources they have defined the names that you want on these different panels but I'd never heard it was chronological that it is listed chronologically by date of loss that is incredible. I did read that there have been some their fifties or so names on there are people. People who were later found not to be casualties but the names remained on there and they decided instead of removing them to leave them on there. There's a small memorial near there that is in remembrance basically to people who didn't die in service in Vietnam but died later because of complications of things that they experienced having been in that conflict <hes> so I think that that's a really good way to pay tribute to those people who didn't give their lives in the actual conflict but then can pay the ultimate price for fighting for their country later and that's a good thing the Vietnam were also has a statute of three soldiers which they wanted to memorialize the ethnic diversity of the troops that fought in the Julianne Moore so there is a there are three soldiers. One is European American one is Hispanic American one is African American and there's also in the same area a memorial to women who served in Vietnam which is one of the first conflicts where women played very large role in it as well has enlisted soldiers as well that was dedicated in nineteen eighty two. I think my first visit into DC was at a class trip in eighty four eighty five and we didn't talk a lot about the Vietnam war and I remember seeing this really testing argument argument coming back and being intrigued as to why we didn't talk teach this more in history. It was one of those ones where I remember when it was dedicated. It certainly has had a big impact on me and very understated like I said there's nothing flashy about this memorial but it is very touching we in studied in school either. That's mostly because it was going on so going. It was current events when I was a kid so that is the big reason why we had <hes> was still something that was <hes> in progress and the the memorial you're talking about two women as I recall his two nurses. It's right near the three soldiers statue as well so those are two things. I think I'm probably the first couple of times I was there on my own in adult I just missed those and they had somebody say to me. Hey did you see those and I went back and the next time I was there. I thought how could I have missed these because the right up the hill from that wallets and I say technically it says two hundred sixty five thousand women served in the Vietnam War. Many of them worked as nurses so oh I was oversimplifying there. My apologies excellent just a few steps away from the Vietnam veterans. Memorial is the Lincoln Memorial which is one of those iconic American structures in research more research for this podcast. I thought it was interesting interesting to read that. Some of the people in this was designed specifically thought that it wasn't appropriate to use for Lincoln who by his nature was a very understated individual so this this this Greek style temple. That's that's built there with Lincoln inside of it. I'm sure but had Lincoln blush like that was not his style of human being your politician. He wasn't into the flashy displays but it's it's a beautiful thing. That's another one that at night you can see it anywhere on the mall. All you can look straight down from the Washington monument downstream down the reflecting pool and see the Lincoln memorial the thing about that what we talked about World War Two memorial for a second one of the things that people didn't like about that one as well as there was that unobstructed view between the two between the Lincoln get in the Washington and now the World War Two is there in its <unk> good stuff that straight through view and the Lincoln Memorial has a couple of things that they have an engraving on the steps going up into the actual memorial software. The actual steps were Martin. Luther King was but he gave the speech. It's war now so you have to really look for it but if you do some research before you go you can find that engraving on the steps up to the entrance to where the statue of Lincoln isn't inside the their large plaques inside of this this memorial that have his Gettysburg address in one of his. I believe the second inaugural address some of the coach from that are up in there and I should mention these monuments especially during the spring and summer are packed so one you can do with these you willing to get up early. You can beat the crowds. I'd say also later at night but the beautiful the mall is the crowds can remain packed through most of the time and especially during May and early June when a lot of school trips are taken around the country Washington D._C.. Being from the Midwest most of the schools here at some point in time whether it be sixth grade or eighth grade do take a trip to Washington D._C.. So that's a good thing but it just makes for these really really large crowds inside of some of these other smaller memorials especially from here in the West. It's quite common that there is a trip in junior high age was the I think my kids did that trip yeah. It shows some of my pictures from a visit I did in two thousand eleven eleven with my mom and my dad we were on the mall at night and it was may and the kids are wary now to keep these kids keep track of the kids that are wearing the same color T. shirts or and the case of this night we were there. One of the schools had given them all fluorescent green ball all caps so every picture. I'm trying to get a little further away from Lincoln. Memorial has all these little fluorescent green dots all over this the memorial so and that's great I needed a place that might less trip to D._C.. was on those things that just opened opened up a lot of ideas that had it made history. Come to life you learn about these people in textbooks but then you see the real life memorials to and then we talked about the war memorials and speaking of we move into the one you like best in the Korean War Memorial. This is another one that at night the Vietnam and the Korean both are very very dark and at night they're not where the Lincoln in the Washington and the World War Two are perfectly well it and good to see in the evening the other two are very understated and buried artist at night but the Crean's wonderful it has these figures and the figures are the statues are designed to to represent the four branches of the military than they have them in there the military style address a court each of its four branches of the military so I had not picked that out the first couple of times I was there and I don't know why was there in there was a veteran leading tour around and I don't think it was the National Park Service but he was leaving to around and he was explaining seeing the difference in some of the formal dress some of the battle field dress from some of these different branches of the military and I just thought it was fascinating to believe he was ex-marine but he was showing some of the Air Force people what their uniforms uniforms at the time look like so it was just it was really an easy and this is a well designed one. It's got one of my favorite. It's got a large wall with a quote on at this freedom is not free righteous sort of the root of all of these war memorials that we have there is people these are people who will pay the ultimate price biting for the country and standing up for what they believed in so that this is what these are about and that's why again they're so well done in most of them are very somber experiences in the Koreans one of those very very well done by. That's one of the newer ones too. It's it's been around since the mid eighties. Actually it was finished in the mid nineties. It's also evolved over time so when you say one of the newer ones so we're recording this in two thousand nineteen and if you're listening to this much later and I don't know how much later you may think we missed one in the sense that at the Vietnam Veterans Memorial is North East of the Lincoln Memorial. The Korean War is southeast of the the Lincoln Memorial. There is not one right now just north and west but that is the designated location for the National Desert Storm and Desert Shield go morial if they can raise the funds to to build that but that's in progress right now Chirp and there has been a lot made of affected. There's not also a national World War One memorial on the on the mall and that there had been sites that have been discussed for that as well there is some space in constitution gardens where they originally thought they might put the World War Two memorial and they didn't end up doing that either so there is still some space for memorials on there in fact the newest one which is just across the street from the Korean is the Martin Luther King Junior the guy that was absolutely the news one because that one was just finished back in two thousand eleven. I this is another one. I Love I just think the people who designed it really caught they use fourteen fourteen panels with fourteen of his famous quotes. There's a thirty. Eighty foot high relief Dr King and it's just touching to see how the lessons learned through a part of history that when it was happening like most things in politics people are divided on how they felt about it but is going going through this memorial you just reading his quotes in you'd find out what a great man this wasn't how he worked for equal rights and it's very striking in its another one just sort of like the one you just mentioned where it took a long time for them to get the funds together and find the right piece of land and and then they bickered over what kind of design it was gonna take on which again that was the World War Two memorial they it was very contentious as to how they were going to do it in once they got it done in the Nice thing about it is in in these cases they they did a nice job on him so all the trying to find the right way to to moralize the wars in these people. They've done a nice job in the end well in this is a little further south on the mall on the tidal basin. So of course it gets to look across at the Jefferson memorial now a memorial to a president who is a slave owner in a city named after another president who was a slave older but <hes> yeah he's a stunning one right next to the Martin Luther King Junior memorials the Franklin Delano Roosevelt Memorial which I I think is probably one of the ones that gets lost in the shuffle of the more well known ones in this one is really elaborate. This covers his obviously his presidency is really hot. You know now we have the term limits at two terms but back then they didn't so he was in office us for twelve years and it's stretches out a large period of time through the Great Depression through his their statues to his fireside chats in this is a memorial which I read this today and I guess I could have picked us out if I just looked through that leads when I was there but in this memorial designed for people with disabilities to be able to access it well because this is a president who also had a disability was in a wheelchair much of his presidency so that was one of the things that win the designers put this memorial together. They wanted to make sure that it was accessible to people with disabilities and it's again it's spread out. There's waterfalls in a very large again. I think it slips through the cracks. A lot of people don't really know much about this. I guess one of the things that is funny about this is the we mentioned the Jefferson Memorial cross the title base in there that one also I think it's less visitors as well but that's because that's kind of a hike sure around the IT'll basin so I know a lot of times when I especially especially when I'm walking the mall at night and taking pictures and stuff I'll shoot the Jefferson across tidal basin because there's some great reflections in that body of water but I make not walk out. There is pretty good. It's a great memorial itself like the Lincoln. It has a bunch of these plaques that I have some of his famous speeches on there and Jefferson is a polarizing figure brilliant guy and he did so much good but then there's the dark part of the story is that he was a slave owner and that he really didn't understand the the moral we'll wrongness of that but he did some great things for the country like the Louisiana purchase which is one of the greatest land deals in history and a lot of the documents which he wrote which became part of our government but there's always that slight darkness to the story. I visited Monticello last year in. I think they have a tough time even in Jefferson's home where he's this is all about him finding a way to portray this character just telling the truth sometimes that's. He's the sort of the start the factional politics in the U._S.. As he's a sitting cabinet member writing under a pseudonym attacking the president who serving so he's an interesting character and <hes> it definitely caused some rifts between he and Wendy some of the other founding fathers especially about Hamilton obviously as they document in the the musical but also with John Adams for instance <hes> big rift there that they finally did settle as they got older and later on in life yeah and the heat and he did a lot of people that are on his writings and the writings fantastic read these larger leafs that they have in the Jefferson memorial some of the writings he had and on I think he talks about all the people having rights but then just the obvious I think just slips buying so a product of the time and certainly a character in in American history that deserves a lot more research on and reading about instill than even though with all the reading I've done. I still have a tough time trying to figure out how how to feel about that so the ball that covers most of what is the mall in its area the Lincoln Memorial butts up against the Potomac or it's just a short distance from the river. If you cross over the bridge there it takes you to Arlington National Cemetery which is not run by the National Park Service but there is a national park service site on that property which is the Arlington House which was originally purchased by relatives of George Washington and then sold later on in life to Robert e Lee the general that confederacy so well Robert e Lee was a descendant of Washington's wife sure so that's one of the reasons why he ended up with that as I recall <hes> he was custos yes so when the civil war broke out the union when across the river just took they said obviously you can't have a confederate generals mane homing they were militarily wise. This is probably not a great place to to let them have so they went over it. took it and it fell into disrepair. During the civil war there was so much else going on that they weren't worried about keeping it up and everything like that and then the house stood that it got years later went back into the ownership of the Lee family and custos families and then it was been later sold to the National Park Service who has been restoring it for years every time I seem to go. They're still working on different restoration projects on this up inside a very large hill overlooking Arlington National Cemetery so there is that ended but it also you can see most of the mall from up there in. It's a it's worth it as it is within walking distance if you're in D._C.. In the summer though you might WanNa think twice about walking it and finding some of the shuttle's in public transportation that you can get over there because because it is a really long walk across the bridge and then through the cemetery yeah obviously cemeteries where visiting even though it's not a national park service run thing and we mentioned the mall has the Smithsonian's running up down as well those are run by the National Park Service but those are most of those museums these are also well worth a visit as well so just throwing those in as an extra to the national parks of the area before we go onto. I I need to correct one thing I said Robert e Lee married a great granddaughter of Martha Washington or of Georgia Martha Washington so he wasn't relative but he married relative. I got that wrong crossing over you're going to cross over the George Washington memorial parkway if you walk over from the Lincoln Memorial into Arlington and this is <hes> leads a sort of into one of the areas. I wanted to talk about with the parks in the D._C.. Theory we mentioned the green space is that the national parks runs the George Washington. Memorial Parkway is mostly just a it is parkway to drive down. It's great for biking while it's mostly flat and beautiful end in the traffic. That's on it is well-controlled. I think the speed limit is thirty five so <hes> it's used for running and biking and all of that along it is Theodore Roosevelt island which is right out in the middle of the Potomac and is one of those places where it wasn't until my last visit one visit since two thousand fourteen where I actually finally made it out to Theodore Roosevelt Island and this is a smallish island but there's some decent hiking trails. There's wildlife out there. I remember seeing a bunch of birds that you're right in the middle of the city but you'd have a lot of good variety of birds there and then there's also a memorial to Theodore Roosevelt author that I think most people miss and again. It's one of those ones where it's Ba- quite a hike from the Lincoln memorial but there's a small parking lot there in this were going out to another one of these memorials think people don't always always get a chance to see so free in space as we were GonNa talk about those there many parks there. I think the most famous park in the D._C.. Areas Rock Creek Park and it's a very lar- on it sort of in the northern part of the District of Columbia there and there are historic sites. They're inside Rock Creek Park which there's pierce mill which is a working gristmill and it's been there for a long time in every time I've been there. It's full of field trip groups seeing this in the recreational. Activities in this park are amazing. There's trails hiking trails and it's good to see green spaces in cities in this one is so well maintained and certainly offers a lot of recreational opportunity. I won't go too much into that because there are a lot of <hes> there's Anacostia Park which is on the southern side of D._C.. which is also a big open greenspace? There's many of the parks were civil war defenses of the capital region which have Ford's a very kind. The one I really really like is a little bit well south of the city. It's called Fort Washington Park and there's the remnants of the old civil war era defenses there and also there's a lot of these interpretive people there explaining it there in costume in there expunge what would go on a daily life as somebody who was defending the capital during the time of war so these are all really really good places. There are some parks that are further afield from the downtown D._C.. Area like principally enforced park work is actually out in Virginia. That's run by the National Park Service. There's a working farm south. I believe it's in Maryland. It's called Oxen. Hill farm and great falls is on the Maryland Virginia border and that's a obviously the cascades of the Potomac River River but that's also run by the National Park Service so these are places where you get citied out. These are all the wonderful green spaces are there for picnics and <hes> ton wind in there. Can I place I love that's really under the raiders is Kenilworth Park Aquatic Gardens which is a part that features all of these water-based plants in its ability pads and says Aquatic Gardens right in so and it's just again. It's another <unk> spaces where you're like. Wow I am in Washington D._C.. Here in a major city and then there's this beautiful greenspace the time first time I went it was mostly flooded. It was the spring in hit head was a lot of it was under water so it was nice US Moshi hiking but the other times I've been it's just a really beautiful beautiful space with a lot of flowers and plants that are native to the area again that you won't see if you're downtown D._C.. Are Walking up and down Pennsylvania Avenue the mall or anything like that so those are good spaces to do and again all run by the National Park Service a a couple of things in DC before we start moving out into the national park units that are sort of outside the city center. There are a number of sites in the D._C.. Area that are dedicated to African American history <hes> these also are very very under the radar their visitation numbers are much lower than some of the other more famous parks in the area and the three I'm going to mention are all historic homes so with historic homes they offer tours the first two. I'm going to mention the only do tourists on the weekends through obviously limited budget type of off facility so the only Thursday through Saturday tours the third one has all the first one in the the most famous one which does chores all the type is Frederick Douglass is home that Frederick Douglass National Stark site which is in the Anacostia neighborhood on the south and this is a home he lived in Frederick. Douglass was a abolitionist in a writer <hes> very famous figure from the right around the civil war era times and this house is is is really beautiful on top of a hill role in the Anacostia neighborhood overlooks a lot of downtown D._C.. And with most of these home tours that the National Park Service does you and I have talked in the past about while our admiration for the National Park Service in a lot of very little title funds at some times in this home is is restored to what it looked like when Douglas himself lived there and it's a it's a great tour. It's about a half an hour lawn. This is one that sometimes we'll fill up so if you do want to see this it might be best to get your tickets in advance tickets. I think there's only mcgirt dollar for like an reservation so it's not like you're paying a lot for this ticket but it might be something you want to look to advance the other two homes I wanted to mention real quick. Are the Mary McLeod Bethune Council House National Historic Soreq Site Nets in the Logan Circle neighborhood and this was dedicated back in nineteen ninety six. Mary McLeod Bethune was the founder of the National Council of Negro Women so not only is it paying homage to an African American site. It's also paying homage to a women's rights the site which is great and she was a this is another one where you do the home tour and they talk a lot about our lightning. What I loved about this one is this is a person who even being a history major in college? I had very little knowledge of her in her life and I was just so impressed at a press with all of what she had done. What a full life? She had led the organizations she founded the bills. She helped get past. It just was a real in the again going back to the national parks we talked about for the Rangers are so passionate and the ranger. I had their gave my tour back in two thousand four two thousand five somewhere there was just so passionate about this subject matter that they had been given and it was a wonderful tour. The next one I'm GONNA mention is one of the places I haven't been in Washington. Salute dedicated two thousand seventeen and that's the Carter G Woodson home national stars that can he is the founder I think the thing he's most known for as being the founder of black history month but he's also journalist and a writer and his home is also available for tours now and they basically just finished this back in seventeen and it's a Thursday through Saturday tour thanks. I unfortunately haven't seen that but the people who I know who have been to that also say that that's a quite a worthwhile tours well last two things. I'll mention in actually in D._C.. Are Ford's theatre obviously famous for the for Lincoln's assassination Ford's theatre. I found this out today. I'd been there a bunch of times I don't ever remember reading but it started out as a house of worship and then was converted into this theater and it's where Lincoln was seeing the play. When John Wilkes booth shot him and then he was taken from for its theater across the street to the home of a local merchant named Peterson so the Peterson houses houses also restored where they took him in and they have? I'm not positive it's the exact that Lincoln was in when he died but it's a replica of it in Lincoln was so tall that they had to lay him sideways in this bet the Ford's theatre in the Peterson House are part of the One national park site there her towards theaters and other one where you're probably WANNA get your tickets a little bit in advance those can sell out pretty quickly as well so it's fascinating place totally restored. I guess from time to time they do some plays. They're still so that would be kind of a neat thing to get in on as well L.. As with the National Park Service what they always do is they they preserve larger spaces of land like Pennsylvania Avenue national historic site is what it's called and it's basically preserving that part of a row there isn't a visitor senators not specific sites to Z.. Not all the buildings along at are monitored and run in part of the National Park Service orbit but there are some very things buildings all the hoover building for the F._B._i.. Deal Post Office Tower also Pennsylvania Avenue. You can see the Capitol on one side the white the house on the other so it's a place where we've done. There's been protest marches there. There's been war celebrations obviously extremely famous part of American so and just a stroll down at I think you could do it in twenty minutes walking from one end to the other and there's plaques send memorials all over the place explaining certain parts of history that has happened there and it's just good for a walk every time I go I end up walking up and down and finding something new that I I didn't know there was a great degrade navy memorial long just discovering the last time I was okay. I don't know that interesting. Yeah that's typical of the National Park Service some of these parks that we call these all national park even those our national memorials and national store excites them whatever right but they're all essentially national parks and National Park Service doesn't just pick out US black elad like the first national park in yellowstone preserve a lot of really unique things and one of those things is in Virginia. Just it's probably half hour so from Washington D._C.. Itself as it's called Wolf Trap National Park Heart for the performing are closer yeah I have been developed. You haven't okay and I mean a lot of people who have the people who have I generally find our residents in the area like northern Virginia and the D._C.. Area those people will go and see concerts asserts in events out there as well. This is one of the things that you would you just wouldn't figure there's a national park dedicated performing arts right. It's the Wolf Trap National Park but we have seen a performance ever. My daughter lives in northern Virginia too. So we went with a local as it was. It's a small little place. Let me it's not a huge stadium typesetting. It's very quaint and two lovely grounds for seeing a concert. It's an outdoor amphitheater so yeah and they don't just do small-time concerts stuff there. Some famous artists perform there and obviously that's a really really intimate setting to be seeing somebody who's usually playing stadiums or the larger theater so and I I have net seen. I've been out there to see the theater itself but I have not actually seen a performance out there. which is something I would definitely do because I agree with you with the grounds are absolutely gorgeous and this is another example of just the kind of national park sites you see all around the D._C.? Area and there are a bunch one of the things about driving driving out of DC <unk> should obviously mention for people don't haven't been in full disclosures. The traffic in D._C.. Is Chaos. It is chaos so where we say. It's a half hour drive from downtown D._C.. To traffic could be an hour and a half so it's just part of what goes with the area. This is a very populated area in a very popular for people to visit as well so a lot of the places. I'M GONNA get into now these national park sites that are outside of D._C.. I tried to keep it within in an hour hour and a half technically drive of Washington D._C.. itself but again it could be longer it could be shorter and so just south of the D series Virginia Virginia has obviously played an incredibly integral part in much much of the history of the United States especially the early parts of the conversation of the continent so much of that took place in Virginia one of the things that Surrounds D._c.. Is there are a lot of very famous battlefields bright and number of these are in Virginia so within like I say that our bubble of D._C.. You can go to Manassas which is also known as bull run the Fredericksburg and spots of National Military Park encompasses. I believe six or seven different sites so these are small sites are redoubts were just earthworks that are left from it. Some of them are places where battlefields happened and you could Fredericksburg and spots of eight. You can spend a whole day just driving around seeing the sights of that one thing so if you are especially sleep civil war era buff this so many of these are right there and you can go crazy and do embattled it's I I love the battlefields. I expect their history side of them but I also I also understand that I get a little fatigued not after four days of doing this in a row so pick out which ones you like further south even than Frederick's words Pennsylvania's Richmond will further south than that as Petersburg which were also famous battlefields the Battlefield Park Richmond is right in downtown Richmond Virginia so you're basically driving city in those are harder to see hearted imagine what that battlefield was like when there's a modern city around it so again with us with national park stuff the visitor centers do a great job of explaining the geography in one a. and the troop movements Muslim have the DIORAMAS or video presentations which show troop movements so you can learn a lot about the civil war that way also in Virginia. There's George Washington's birthplace which is not mount vernon should mention that this is a much smaller site in its further down the Potomac and it's a small site and it's not incredibly well visited but it is the place where he was born in spent the early part of his life there so and it is for enough away from the city where you can really get a feel that back in the George Washington's time this had to feel like a million miles away from the cities and everything it was just a farming tidewater farming areas river this you mentioned Mount Vernon. People may be surprised. We're not talking about that. That is not a national park oddly early enough of the president's homes are but not that one member great and worth a visit so and that's one of the things about talking about this. We have got a limited amount of time for the PODCAST. You do a podcast just on the stuff in downtown D._C.. And Squeeze National Park sites in there but yes <music>. I'm sticking with stuff. That's on the National Park Roster. Even then I'm leaving out so many of the smaller parks that we could talk about because there are just so many in the area so further down the river is colonial national historic. That's actually a good South Richmond and headed towards the Atlantic Ocean from their colonial national park is not colonial Williamsburg but is right near Colonial Williamsburg in it a lot of colonial national historic parks talks about John Smith in the colonies which he founded founded in. It's a small much smaller than colonial Williamsburg but also if you're in the area definitely worth a visit and not as touristy as colonial Williamsburg which I do like but as is quite touristy so in Virginia will talk about the one really big national national park in the East which has the national title that Shannon Doa which is a great national park and it's probably about one hundred miles from D._c.. Butts along thin park that runs right along the ridges of the Appalachian Mountains there and it has the Appalachian trail which runs right through it and it's a great place for camping and hiking and if you spend all this time in D._C.. And you went out to Shenandoah. I think the reaction most people have from it is wow. This is just a couple hours drive from the chaos of downtown in Washington D._C.. And you're in this gorgeous wild sort of remote place in Shenandoah crowded. There's a lot reason a lot of people's one of the ten most visited national parks in the country for good reason the main road skyline drive which again just crests the top of these mountains all the okay through the park and you're left with just gorgeous views and when you stand up there on top of those peaks remember back in colonial times people would get to the top of them. If you looked west from there it was the great beyond nobody really knew was out there her beyond the Shenandoah valley especially for the first one hundred or so years of the history of America there just wasn't much beyond there and if you've been to the West and you've seen the big snowcapped rockies these the Appalachian mountains don't seem so intimidating but for people whose best best way of moving was on horse these mountains provided a pretty significant barrier to settlement further west than that so shadow is definitely worth visited a little further out than some but it was. It's worth mentioning Maryland is Surrounds D._C.. We see on the north and east sides and there are some national park sites in Maryland that are worth visiting roughly about two hours away out in the coast Esotique eyelid which is one of the few places in America where you can see wild horses it also serves a really unique the ecosystem of tidewater and it was settled so there was clam farms and there's some older sites on there and it was also a place where the native Americans used to live into a lot of fishing and their food stores ladder food stores. I came from Esotique. Items Agree Liz it again a little bit of a drive from D._C.. The one other place I wanted to mention north the states are all small so they're close together. Pennsylvania's not too far away but Gettysburg's a couple of hour drive as well so if you were going to see one of of these battlefield sites I would probably personally say Gettysburg's because it's one of the most famous and Ryo wind done. They have <hes> an audio guide. You can follow around. They have one on your phone now that you can just downloading and they have these numbers plaques you can call up on your phone and tell you about everything. Gettysburg is so famous and arguably the battle that turned the tide in the civil wars Walter so good of a drive but if you're going to see one of those battlefields and and you're gonNA save just one. I'd probably say that's a good one to go after slats a rough rundown of the parkside again I'd left a bunch out because we just couldn't possibly cover the breadth of them in one podcast but the National Park Service obviously does a great job of preserving all these as places in any of these are well worth visit excellent. Let's do some summary questions here. If you had to say the prettiest one of all of these national parks personally I mentioned it right at the beginning was I just adore the National Mall at night mhm just walking around and the way everything is lit and I find myself trying to get there an hour or so before sunset and taken in the sunset and then shooting pictures what it gets dark. I've been out in the mall to midnight at times times just because I think it's just so beautiful away. The monuments are Lytton. It's just people walking around with their families and school kids seeing this for the first time it's just it's really great any of the national parks that you would personally tell people to skip. Yup and do a different one instead yeah I mean we mentioned the battlefields kind of going back to that. If that's your thing do that but I know I had a friend who a couple years ago went with of somebody he'd started dating. He was a civil war boffin. She was not a lot of travelling around battlefields and that the T. got pretty quick. I am a civil war fan but that is something I plan to do without my wife one of these and you cut a and that's a legal issue probably could spend just doing it on your own and hamlet peop- fine what they like yeah there's other sites there and I left some of them off trying to visit. All the national parks gives you a different perspective on that because <hes> sort of got do all of these so I'm running around and stuff and sometimes like well. This isn't really all that interesting for me the thing the D._C.. Area that I thought was interesting. That didn't the green spaces hot. You're okay so you visit a part. You can check it off your national parks list but some of them don't don't have something specific to see so you go to a park and you're GonNa Park and go there knocked another national park off so I I love the green spaces in love using them but if you're not recreating or whatever if you're doing him for the check off your list that make sure you're get into the really good ones and spending some time there as well and you see checking them off your list. I think I know I do and I think you also have a national park passport I don't you don't actually you're not a park password. I I guess I'd forgotten that I it was a hundred parks in before I realized well my digital pack passport was last seen in a rental car outside of Petersburg National Military Park. I think it may have gotten stolen from the car along with an S. l.. Our camera and I'm not sure which one I missed more because it was easier to replace the honestly sure although expensive so yeah I collect the brochures and I have what I started doing once. I realized that this was actually my wife tells me all the time MHM sometimes I am not the most observant person which is travelers sometimes is in great. I now stamp the brochures when I get them so when I get those because National Park Pushers Gorgeous is nice full size stamp on when I have them in <hes> and I didn't collect the I should mention that I'm glad you brought that up. That's why you're an expert podcast Chris. This amps for both of these memorials on the mall are there is a visitor center on the mall that has and through the stamp geeks you displaces like everybody stream green you go in and there's like twenty stamps. You can get there for all the memorials in the mind Yamin so that's cool you see people go in there with their passport and just so excited if they'll pages worth stamps so in that is there's one on the mall visitor's center which <unk> also is great because you can get all the brochures and they can help you plan your time. They also can tell you when there's these ranger led walks so I can't believe I failed to mention that as well but you can certainly get in on that by visiting a visitor's center will in the one thing that I like about the passport or just even that quest to see the national parks is it does lead you to those lesser known ones like in Uber talking about the Fred like Douglas National Historic site or the aquatic gardens or some of those things if you're trying to see all of them if you're trying to see all of them in area or even if you're just looking at the passport going well. What is there in the area? It has led to some things that I have quite loved that I I'm sure I would not have heard of so that is something that I recommend people for that reason it. We've already talked so much about all the sites in the inner ear and one of the places I found because I was doing list was the Clara Barton National Stark site in Clinical Maryland. There's also Glen Echo Park which is run by the National Park Service which is an old amusement park which is just right near the grounds of this national of declared national historic site and this is a place where I would never have stumbled upon I wouldn't even seen this in a brochure or a guidebook or something but I was checking it off and this is one of those sites I just adored the tours and other great home tour but the Glen Echo Park is just fascinating. It's like I say it's an amusement park from the sixties at went bankrupt and it's been restored and they use it for events now and like ballroom dancing on Friday nights. I think I read somewhere so and that was one of the things that I would never have ever seen this. Had I not been checking these parks off the list so it was just one of those really unbelievable. It's a lot of it serendipity things you never thought you would enjoy as much as you do excellent and and I'm still wanting to do another show to update the show that we've done on DC in the mall and the Smithsonian and some of those things as well so we may get back to DC again especially if I can find some guest because there that has changed there are some new museums uh-huh in the Smithsonian for instance that we haven't talked about on the show because they are have been built since we last did a show on that part of the mall but we won't cover them this week because we have already run out of things anything else we should know before we head to DC most besides don't go in summer if you can avoid it if you can't avoid it because you're doing school holidays than sure good luck. It's like most things if that's when you have to go if that's when your vacation time is then go and make the most of it you'll sweat a lot. D._C.'s he's built technically on swamp so it's humid and it feels swampy at times but you can make the most of it and then would travel being springs travelers in a lot of people listen this Pakistan while that's probably a universal rule that you just this. Is your chance to see this. Is your chance to be there. Who knows if you're going to be back so make the best of it but yet it's a good time in wits hunting 'cause D._C.'s gets the worst of both it can be cold in the in the winter as well on they can get some snow there as well not a ton but some so just make the best of it? I think the thing I would say about it is just soak up its Americana that Kimchi word but so much of our history is represented there like not all of it took place in that area but the fact that we memorialize pay tribute to so much of what we are obviously it's a it's a capital so that's what we do in those places but see beyond the memorial see beyond see the stories of the people and like I mentioned those Dame's famous homes of the African American individuals that three that I mentioned there that's another one of digging into history that you might not have known was there and open up your mind to seeing and learning things that you might not have known before excellent. Our guest again has been Eric Smith Eric. Thanks so much for coming back on the show and sharing with us your love obviously for national parks but also for the national parks in The Washington D._C.. Area always a pleasure Chris thank you in news of the community. We have decided on a trip in two thousand and twenty two Turkey and we've just posted the information in terms of how much that's going to be more details will come but if you're interested in more information go join the facebook group amateur her traveler dot com slash trips recently. I had two different podcast reviews one five star one one star the five star of you was fantastic podcast about traveling and it was from Sports Nathan who said I love listening to this podcast that Chris put together so well bring on guests about places to travel and share their experiences in each destination. I love the questions that Chris asks the guests on the show and I find this podcast really relaxing listening to while driving to work or cleaning and cooking. I'm at home. I am so grateful for Chris and his preparations for each episode of the show he shared with us here to travel around the world the One star of you we talked last week about how I do occasionally say excellent or more interesting and that I say little else other than that well. Someone definitely didn't like that one star and then the review is excellent interesting excellent interesting excellent interesting. It'd be me laugh. You know if you're going to give a one star review at least make me laugh. I can own that one Dick Countryside from the U._S._A.. Who is I suspect downlisting anymore so I really don't have to mention his day? If you're interested you can give review in the apple podcasts and let us know how you feel with that. We're going to end this episode of amateur traveller. If you have any questions send an email to hosted amateur traveler dot com or better yet. Leave a comment on this episode at Amateur Traveler Dot Com and thanks so much for listening.

National Park Service D._C.. National Parks Washington D._C Lincoln Memorial Washington National Mall Virginia National Park Service Vietnam Veterans Memorial DC Lincoln Jefferson memorial Vietnam The Washington Monument National Park Wolf Trap National Park Heart
Episode 146: RECAP UFC 241 | Nate Diaz Is A Star | McGregor Punches Old Man

Big Brown Breakdown

1:29:31 hr | 1 year ago

Episode 146: RECAP UFC 241 | Nate Diaz Is A Star | McGregor Punches Old Man

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Then got tried in the face with a baby fu-kang over the place with him also starting a new raft in what is happening fam- it it is monday morning august nineteenth on this gloomy los angeles day here for the kids here here in los angeles. <hes> i sound a little under the weather all right tom actually beating it. You know in your teeter totting on gin sake. You just kinda somewhere in the middle yeah. That's where i'm at. It was start feeling pretty shitty on saturday when i was in portland issue our medicine but shot to whiskey. Can i get through the shows and then <hes> getting better. It's nothing to batches. I talk too much like i'm losing my voice a little bit little chest cold. Maybe but it's going away kids were good. I'm not gonna miss anything. <hes> yeah man was in portland qalandia portland all white people <hes> is great though one of my favorite cities <hes> this time was a little different different but there's a couple reasons why it's my favorite cities a portland's dope great food great people <hes> the club helium. There's the best helium elam. I haven't been to philly. I think i'm in philly in october. Everyone says the human <hes> philadelphia's must be dealt but this my third time doing the helium in <hes> portland and <hes> nick the manager there. He's about my age. She's one of the only few manage he can kick it with his runs to like a really good show there and he's in like cakes and it was the food knows the scene so it makes it so much better than the manager's like that sometimes as old creepy wants to stick around to its way it's awkward but not not with this dude shut up to nick over there at portland helium but this time was different because the guys who i brought with me <music> to african americans <hes> chapelle lacey who's a monster and then my boy derek posted who has familiar with if you've seen one of my shows where for my instagram <hes> i always bring derek with me and i mix <hes> change out either dangerous brown asana mod and then chapelle lacy just depends on scheduling so this <hes> chapelle endeared came with me to portland and i got warnings before. I know if i talked about it last week held. The proud boys were throwing their annual annual protests. Yep <hes> rally or some racist called a parade and <hes> so i didn't realize how big of the deal is there but <hes> on friday cops came to the show and they're like came and tomorrow <hes> they're like re stain and i told him and i'm downtown. You're in the heart of it. So <hes> last year for people were murdered. There's a lot of crime and he's like so just do your show and stay in your room like don't hang out as okay okay. These are come from like straight up cops who were all at the show mckay cooman saturday. It was a scene out of the purge. No one's runs around. All businesses are shut down. There's no just think about like a major downtown. Whatever city you're anti listens. Imagine no one's on the road like the fucking shootout shootout in an old country western movie and no one's outside because they don't wanna get shot. It was so strange like i could escape boarded down the goddamn highway i can i can ran all over the streets there. There's nothing going on and it was just because the atif and proud boys were doing this <hes> protest and they took over the city. They took over the city and <hes> the cops are ready for it this time though i think think <hes> last year they didn't know what to expect but this time they were definitely raring to go. There's a shitload of them so probably around two o'clock i hear here just all this chaos outside my window and i saw you know all the proud boys and the antifa doing their thing to shield the worship possible. Human beings can can yell at each other. It's such a waste of time. It was such a waste of time for both sides there. You have got to do something your lives all of them. It was such a i hope novum have kids. The proud ways addressed them. These cautions shitty halloween costumes and teeth is yelling <hes>. It was just the worst of the worst just white trash i've ever seen and <hes> i to see united to get my nose in there too. Even though i like mexican i to to get my nose in there so i went down there. 'cause i saw all the cops. There's a ton of them in the swat gear i mean i'm talking the semiautomatics the whole get up so i went down there and <hes> i just wanted to look at 'em nurse seen when these protests and was on c._n._n. All that stuff phil pretty safe because those guys were there and also all those people are dummies so i thought it'd be all right and i'll stand there just watching and one of the hook in the swat team guys lifts up is the the like they're dead serious standing like shoot like a human wall aw so people can't get all the stuff and they left damascus job like what's up and he's like i told you last night man. Don't come out here. I was like oh shit and stopped him and he's he's. He's just in good spirits which was pretty stressful. Chaos going on around and i go. Hey man so have they done anything now. Not not really they like fuck with each other like pepper spray each other whatever but they're not gonna do anything. They're not gonna do anything. I wish they would use so. Do we so do wedeman so do we <hes> but there will i said. Is it weird. If i get a picture this is pure chaos man. Here's yeah no doubt he only if you post that shit i'll definitely post it allendale posted with daylight he went to our no. No you guys don't do anything silly. You guys need to be dead serious. Let me do the silly ship. You'll see it down there and behind me is just i mean straight up pure chaos pure chaos in saint portland's a pretty you know hipster lucy z. cousy place and it was just fucking crazy. Look at those guys man yeah scary shit and on the intercom gone. Please get back back inside. Get off the streets we and they just keep wanting to it was straight out of the purge man or some fuck in <hes> handmaid's tale stuff. It was like it was so intense it just kind of put it was still a great weekend. Just put like a weird like cloud over. Everything you know is just a string. You were there on friday right j saturday we i was there for that's why we couldn't go out number. I thought he came in on friday. I was there friday man in your there friday. You've terrell left on saturday. That's left saturday morning. I'd have to deal with the. I'm talking. They did at bain style. The shutdown bridges ages like so he can get out of the city. Oh yeah we'll get out nuts man and what did they accomplish accomplish nothing. What a waste of human beings time it i just i don't get it man. I don't get it it was i've never i've seen anything like that. Never seen anything like that. <hes> i did press out there ever since a joke koi. He's talking about press. You know my shows were sold out still depressed in portland other joe koi style the joko game plan <hes> most of them were good by the end of doing so many at the end <hes> adair kinship elkin with me and the manager nick and <hes> we did this interview. I said hey my entire golden amount no matter what and this makes the respond. I said no no matter what they ask. I'm gonna bring it back to nevada for whatever reason the pan nevada kurt cobain <hes>. Let's see how many times did whatever they had asked if it gets so kurt cobain and it made it so much more fun for me. That was the goal. I don't know if they dug the interview with. That was the goal oh man. I'm glad to be back though i can't. I can't imagine if something like that get even bigger the proud wise i think it was a home run because they got acknowledgement from <hes> the president and all the press got okay. She's my thing is is they said it. They're gonna protest from noon to five so when five five p._m. Hits is our there's like all right boys. Wrap it up like to go home go home. Where do they go. You know did they. I think they had i'm not i'm not this told told me i i think they had a wrap party. Yeah fucking got closing wrap party. Yeah like like <hes> like <hes> they were like mission accomplished and fucking thing man imagine like in the old like a factory as like a horn going off like you. Have you know the rules else. We don't go after five fellows clocks out get through lunch. Pail go so strange. <hes> tito ortiz is out that you see on the post news day goes. I'm here to like tito here now. There's like you see part of the rally or he said he's. They're doing a appearances. Appearances is your looks good managed shape. You're the fight coming out yeah against the the wrestler wrestler this dummies comment champs here. This dummy goes champ of watt comments right so i opened up a similar respond people read them in genoa. It never see it when i pull them up. You have no choice but to read them. Yeah i see it right here this brady j something put champ of what he's u._c. The champion dumb dumb that never goes away. Please get better just life in general please. Let's tito ortiz. <hes> is cool. See tito though seem like you gotta get time. I don't know who he is with us. They're doing some signing though doing some signing man <hes> of able to see some the fights in the green green room there but it it's different when you can't pay attention to them. You know like i saw the result but <hes> so to watch it again yesterday and then i watch again this morning morning <hes> man what an amazing u._f._c. two forty one. This is exactly what the doctor ordered. <hes> and you knew this can big because the other ones were caught you there so lackluster when they go. You're hating on the seat. No i'm not hating. Those cards. Were complete shit of compared to what this one is or what we're expected. You know <hes> what we've been expecting from the ac- especially with his big e._s._p._n. Deal <hes> those are just facts in the in the ratings would are you with the side that i'm on that though this have been terrible cards <hes> so i think it made this one that much sweeter especially because it delivered <hes> luke thomas flew into town and meet him could break it down and get balls deep into it to check out the hard cores <hes> he i mean i'd say listen to it now. It's called job boys doing it once a month of may maybe not even once a month just when there's big cards made him will get together to kinda get <hes> balls deep into those fight cards the switch the main fights so he flew in from d._c. We did that up right now. If you wanna listen to it <hes> it was interesting. Interesting is interesting especially because he asked to talk for fucking three hours a day about these fights so it gets pretty pretty detailed with all that <hes> yet yeah but this card for the most part was a home run was absolute home run. I was like to give <hes> like m._v._p.'s you know or this one's tough because <hes> kind of the whole narrative on this for me was when his father tom gonna catch up to some of these guys meaning st bay d._c. Nate diaz anti eh yoel romero and <hes> is ring rescued being issue because steepest had a long time off. A._d._s. has had a long time off so there was just just a lot of question marks. I think that's why the odds were show close for. All these fights so people go you picked wrong. Yes suck this dick it closest. That's why the odds are close. Men an and it's m._m._a. So you never know what's going to happen. <hes> i guess a jump right into the main event dc steep bay. I man you know i think i think d._c. Does what he does and you know he did. Come in a little lighter uh and and i think when you look at d._c. At heavyweight he he really never was a knockout artist. You know he knocked out bigfoot silva <hes> other than that. He's really not taking guys out like that. He's really not knocking dudes out so when he knocked out steep a we all thought we forgot about what he did previously previously to that in heavyweight light heavyweight. He's not a knockout art. It's not a heavy handed knockout artists so when you see him knockout how steep everyone goes dude heavyweight. He's not can do doubt he might build knockout. John jones blah blah blah heavyweight and so when he fought debate the second time and he lands those big punches and it's not going away. A part of me goes well. Maybe one of the reasons he knocked out steeping that i bike is debate was coming off a beatdown down from franson ghana. Remember steep eight some motherfucking congo atomic bombs from francis. He went five rounds with francis assists and eight. Some huge shots didn't have that long of a layover and then fought d._c. So one could argue that d._c. Cottam at the perfect time when st you pay wasn't exactly one hundred percent now. Deepa has a year off. <hes> comes back off season. He's not suffering from any sort of residue from from a previous his fight because a year is a long time comes in their d._c. Definitely <hes> are you three rounds to none before. He got knocked down the forth. <hes> two rounds and one but if you were d._c. Fan like i was watching it and watch it three times and i thought well it's what makes d. we see d._c. When the grace of all time to ever do it but the the confidence in the cockiness to just eat shots and go walk four with your hands down and he's done it before but not to this magnitude like just the self confidence which i love is what makes d. c. d. a._c. But to have zero worry that steep it could knock you out is insane is insane <hes> when dc picked him up and drop them on his hand the wrestling than you c._d._c. Just completely abandoned that chip <hes> i. I don't know i think for d._c. He thought he was going to get him out out of there and when and when they kept going and st base not going anywhere st based land in psalm but d._c.'s really doing the majority of the work but steep as just there and watkin forward like it cleveland zombie <hes> that show this is a tribute to stay with the performs like that at the bust out my favorite jersey this random cleveland military leterrier jersey the guy in the backyard and play for me more. That's my favorite <hes> some random japanese <laughter>. I think <hes> pitcher some shit like that anyway but for for steeper just keep walking forward and taken d._c.'s best shots. This was a matter of you know d._c. If you remember his old kind of uh-huh slogan was embraced the grind steep a embraced the grind and he out embraced the grind of d._c. That's the takeaway. I i think a lot of people go oh well in the fourth round starting to the body shot. Yeah that's one of the reasons he was able to to knock him out eventually but i think even if the body wasn't there he you would've done it later. In the fourth round. The fifth round is just a matter of time because he was out grinding d._c. Who's the king of the grind. St bay aid is best shots. What's starting to get tired d._c. I think for the first time realized that he's not going to get out of there. You know like he's not gonna break the bay and his shots landing <hes>. You know if you're watching a fight in d._c. Has the highest i._q. Probably of all time him barnett donna cruz go you. You know some guys at the top of my head as far as <hes> cerebral fighters <hes> for d._c. Just a walk forward with his hands down. I thought man if you're a young young fighter watches. That's not how you fight. That's you don't wanna know how you do it. This isn't it and it was <hes> you know as a matter out of steep aid to me watching it my whole take way to some all this shit up my whole takeaways steep a out grinded d._c. He took his best shots. He hung in there. Start landing the body then put them away <hes> i thought d._c. For the first time did look a bit of forty <hes>. It looked like he did get really retired. <hes> you know i think such a great win for st bay i do think it cements him as the greatest u._c. Heavyweight i think is the argument for kane. A what people forget what cain did he had to toddler fences got clip behind the with j. d. s. and then got it back you know so i think people forget st bay and i'm i'm sorry kane in his his prime so to me. It's cain or steep but whenever you it doesn't matter you there's argument for either guy but <hes> you probably tip your hat too steep for for what he did with d._c. <hes> so now what do you do now at the healthy do those two for d._c. If you wanna retire go ahead brother here forty. You got a million options options. You had a family. You're you know pound for pound with the grace fall time no matter what happened in this fight deeming need this to cement your legacy you could make the heavyweight of all time but whatever happens you'll ask okay still one of the greatest of all time still goat <hes> and you got your your your whole other career that you can do i i. I think it's tough to compete at this level. Got all that stuff going on man. I really really do so <hes> if he wants walkway great <hes> the only thing i could really see for d._c. At this point would be a trilogy a rubber match because they are one one so that would definitely kind of cement alright. Depaix definitely beat them <hes> because i do think there's things d._c. Could have done <hes> to to win that fight. One would not just walking forward with your hands down and also going back to some your wrestling <hes> so there are a lot of things d._c. Can fix where i think he could action definitely win that fight <hes>. I think they're great for each other. Trilogy fight make sense if fifty wants to keep going but i'm not chomping at the bit for a steep a._d._c. Rematch goddamn honestly a third one. They want to do in a year from now. Hell sign me up. <hes> really really i think the the fight to make for steep pay would be <hes> john jones and did anyone else watching this. I was watching this especially. Maybe it was just because that's the style d._c. Makes he makes it a phone booth slugfest <hes> i was watching went. Oh john would beat the fuck. Both these boys he would dismantle mantle both of them <hes>. He's gonna stay inside. You won't play the inside games can do that. He's gonna he's gonna take you down. If you want to stay on the outside you can do that. You're not going out wrestled them. He's actually pregnant us more wrestling <hes> the power of d._c.'s leonardo shots for st to stay outside on john would be tough man man <hes> so i watch i went. Oh man. I think john's looking at this going. Oh you do that. Y'all definitely do. I'll take that i i think it's just a matter of money. I don't think the matter of a simple i go john skipper heavyweight again. Suck my dick <hes> i think john is just matter backing up the pink the bring trucks for him <hes> but yeah looking at john would pry this mantle both of them without fighting style united standard slug it out with john jones. I bet that's pretty tasty for john. <hes> in the other thing too man to think about what johnson do at light heavyweight wait we heavyweight division. We can do man we can do. You become the demisch johnson of light heavyweights where we just don't wanna see fight because there's so much better everyone. The only fight possible in there is if domic is beats chris wideman then yet raise john jones. No one's like foaming at the dick to watch that you know what i'm saying. It's cool fight a watch. It is definitely some other fights. It's for john especially to make him the greatest fall time bar none like that just just obligations light heavyweight. You know but there's nothing look at that division. Your identity gessen retired <hes> he beat santos. He beat at the smith yet. Democray is okay yet. Corey ask ask their vote on or he had his chance. Glow versed seventy years old yet johnny walker who's a fun up and comer this. How old light heavyweight shogun there for god's sakes show gun who i remember that shaggy still they're ranked on top fifteen but so i light heavyweight. It's like all right john. Stay there and beat up the guys beat up. The boys wore cement your legacy complete with the big boys and by big boys. I i mean the biggest boys i tell you i won't be surprised comes champion the next x twelve months for instance in ghana rematch him for st bay. I'd be interested so she now what he's done. He's learned from that fight and looking at steep as in the way he was kinda flat-footed standing there could be trouble. That could be a lot of trouble but again c._p._a. Rated c._p._i. Takedown d._c. If your member took him down to the main event feel bad for dc sappy for for steep a and i think you know the u._c._l._a. Kind of dictum around now had the year layoff they wanna do. Lessner listener fell out so all right steve bay here you go. I do they go. They beat them. That's feel so good. It's tough 'cause like. I think people just started liking d._c. People used to boom all the time even with jones. How do you not like d._c. Man just started liking d._c. Kind of it's tough to see him lose now and now and now with this card one of the reasons i i wasn't positive steeper nate diaz because the ring rest and i know obviously dumb at cruise when the grace all times like ring rests isn't the thing in he's probably right and i for some guys. It's not a thing of fight to fight the reason why i take ring in consideration because the only way to get your exact time down with three active in the the sport they compete in so you can have all the gym wars you can do you all the training you want but nothing nothing will duplicate live ammunition the navy seal try listen when they get natural. They'd go through a million frigging. Training regiments have fake bullets. Some are real but it still it just not the exact same. There's nothing to do until you actually get inside that outgun so is a guy can be super rusty. Just look out of it and the lights are gonna be too bright. That's not one timeout with ring rests at these guys level. I'm talking about maybe his jabs a little off the timing of the jab to throw in the one two's off or maybe his three punch com was not as quick and he's just a tad hesitant because the live ammunition he just hasn't been into the fire that <hes> maybe his transition from the clinch to the single legged is just not that it's just half a second off. That's what i mean by ring. I don't mean the guy's gonna shit his pants. All these guys have way too many fights to have that sort of rigorous a younger guy. I would less experience my have ring rust like that but with these guys it's a matter of <hes> recognizing something because they've been in there recently and and everything for them is it it's all timing that nanoseconds the demonstration world champion and contender and that's what i mean by ring us. I think people are getting confused. When when i'm talking about rigorous us <hes> we may dis. I thought his ring rust was. Maybe you know he. He looks like you got a little tired with his fighting style. The again that much be the nerves because you're not used to it and it's been three years you know and it's not that his job was off or any of that. Stuff is just be you know the adrenalin and his body made them made his heart rate go up higher that he hasn't been seen in three years so maybe effect is cardio little bit. That's it still get the job abdin even said you'd preferred or longer fight because the three round fight. He was just getting going knocking kind. Are those those cobwebs off like five rounds for nate's 'perfect. He's just getting going. You know steep a two. He hasn't been there awhile. You can tell all right that third round oh he looks. It's better to go down four hundred. Sorry go in the body. That's what i mean by ring ruth for for for nate diaz. He came out hot but you can tell like he's he's getting going. He's he's. It's warming up man you give him five rounds boy's gonna shine <hes> but if they were more active the pregnant shine earlier that's all i mean by ring with their weight wait. All these guys are way too season to to let the moment get to them. <hes> some not worried about that. I thought thought nate diaz looked great. <hes> anti patas was was definitely a you know a great opponent <hes> anthea peta's counterstrike in his land and some big shots <hes> you know d. has just with that onslaught man. Eh on slat just eventually broke him down. He definitely one thirty twenty seven it. I don't know what judge gets twenty nine twenty eight for peres but i never really saw that. I never never really saw that. It was it was a dominating performance by ideas and for him to call up mazda all max. I love that that's the fight. I don't know if the u._s.'s equipped market that fight fight <hes> also they have a lot of respect for each other so it'd be way better if one hated the other special in that situation to market that but that's nothing nothing sells itself to the hard cores that thing is. We're all vying to see that. <hes> you know sites or if you're early on edwards fan. 'cause you get left behind in this but he'll be fine. He's the young he'll get there. <hes> yeah i also think watching this car to you realize how big of a mishap the u._f._c. has had with the with nate diaz than the diaz brothers. You realize how big of a starry is you can look at all the numbers the build up to the fight anything had nate diaz was over a million views news <hes> his fi- i'm sure you know the scarred sold well to breathe best. They've had in a long time if not the best this year. That's not because of steep steep bay. That's not because of athy pats yeah. It's part of it. That's because of nate diaz so everyone gets a star. What are you talking about man. He's really the the one thing everybody was talking about. Especially being kind of i in i think about this on my drive here today. Obviously a lot of people gravitate hey towards nate because he's so game similar to cowboy well. Everyone loves donald thrown 'cause it. It's not a business to him. He's a real fighters fighter. He's anytime anywhere. We love that. I get that but with nate there's there's a different level of love and there's different level fandom and i was trying to think what that is. I think it's because nate diaz is the guy who's been screwed over. He's been screwed over and we all can relate to that in some facet. Whether it's your boss or you're the guy on the football team who never got the shot or whatever it is he people relate to that and there is something where we <hes> have <hes> compassionate when it comes to eighty s i know i do i would imagine a lot of fans do so it's this mix six of people who can relate to that because they've been fucked over at some point in their life and they never got there do's and then there's the hard cores who loved that ideas down to fight anybody you buddy and then there's also the people who love nate because he doesn't play the entertainment aspect. He says he's his him. True self love him or hate him so i think you combined combined all that and there's just this love and admiration for ideas. I think it's like the the perfect kind of stu to to make a superstar and he's a superstar. He's a straight up superstar and the u._s._c. doesn't know what to do with it and it's a shame and the only reason you saw him percent the perez 'cause nate diaz team watch anti peres fight tony ferguson and went man. That'd be great fight force and those to figure it out and you know nate. Diaz wants what he's worth which i love but when your boss in your the upper management keep saying you're not a star will eventually you know that let's take its toll on you and you don't wanna play ball and that's you forget how much you miss nadir's. We saw him fight on saturday night and it's a real shame. We haven't seen more active. He's not young sr thirty to thirty two at what wait staff men he. Has you know three fights left if he wants you know he did look great benway wants to do but there's only bake fights for him but the problem with big fights. Is you need big money. The problem with big money is that management gets involved in. They don't think nate's a star so there's a huge issue there so so. When are we gonna see nate fight again to make that mazda. I'll fight. You can't pay nate like it's just a fight night main event. You gotta pay nate. That's the eyeballs that he brings and you can't say well whatever you see to forty one. I don't care what the numbers are. People were talking about this so the u._s.'s going to go. We'll nate eight. You only sold this no man you put it behind to pay walls. I know people who still can figure it out. I know people who still had issues. That's not a nate diaz prom. That's a u._f._c. see business problem so don't hold that over. These fighters heads especially galley. Nate is and go. We can't give you a few million man. Not bringing the the the money like don pay per views yet yeah but what about all the other views on all your other platforms that he's bringing in. That's your business model not nate <unk> nate. Everybody could watch it. You decide to make everyone pay ford and then he's the one who suffers but today anna's credit he did go out and say like okay yeah. Nate is a needle mover. He did admit it. You know who that helps though chen no-one proven pay them in yeah pay them for stuck. It helps dana because the numbers are there yeah right like with everything the build up in trending so he's like he has now dan. He's a star what else you. How are you that there's nothing else you can do before he's like. He's just his his brothers. They kept on his brother's. This star but nate is such a bigger deal than his brother. His brother fought a long fucking time ago. The current fan base does not not really no whose brothers the current fan base knows nate diaz because he fought conor mcgregor twice and then he just beat anthony showtime paddocks the kid from the wheaties eighties box. This fan base knows nate diaz. Pay the man pay the fucking men <hes> the other big fight on the card paulo coast of romero jesus christ men <hes> if if in again i always like to give you know like m._v._p. Card it had three paul costa sta because i watch i'm like i always thought he was good but i thought he was kind of a one trick pony. I think because we live in the age of you know oh. He's real muscular. Susan get tired. I'm a fucker super muscular and his cardio was fantastic. I mean he was an all out war with y'all romero. I mean gene straight up in his grill faced. Nose-to-nose exchanging blows getting drop getting like ditch. It was incredible to do that with y'all whole romero holy fuck. He answered so many questions he was eating shots had good take down the fence when he got taken down. He got up bureau. He got a a little tired. It's a fight dummies. Yeah you're gonna get tired. Man it doesn't mean is a cardio issue immune teasing a straight up fisticuffs cops with y'all romero one of the best to ever fucking do middleweight also the most freak athlete we've ever seen in. He's going toe to toe blow for blow. That was a phenomenal vitamin. Those three fights were fucking great man. Those three fights are dope. Doc is anthony patterson may the only one where i was on the edge of my seat because controlled that fight frady dominant pretty dominant so it was fun to see nate a._d._a. Do his thing the steep a._d._c. one was fun and then paul costa. You'll remember to home. I got it was our violence at its finest. Y'all that was violent. It's this also middleweight jesus christ. If i weigh one eighty five i'm cutting down to one seventy and that ain't no fucking walked in the bark either but eighty. I five eighty five got some straight up monsters does because he had sign. Is your champ yet whittaker to write your champs. They're fighting. You'll rumors number two so you gotta assume pollock is gonna jump that fucking entire q. and he's giving me number two now polit oh costo verse otta sonya latte fucker. We going to do the paula kosta. I whitaker those things right themselves. There's a three man trio up there just rotating monsters. Oh my mike god that is tasty up the that is tasty. Their bodies were distracting. It's true. I ah fuck like action. Figures right like my son. Has this big action family but that's exactly how these boys look. It was insane and you don't realize how big paulo holocaust is. I thought you'll romero is bigger and faster than you see. Paul holy shit that boys built son. That's brazilian tho- the war you look like rim mercies his face look like the rain for a little and this day of you sada eight on that. I say that you saw it a sniff it out that boy's naturally fucking wall shocked never knows brazil has some other shit. We don't know about what please let me know about jesus christ that boy shred sadie man dan in your ramiro forty two it was wearing kept sticking his tongue out housing. Was he keep that was kind of funny though really i don't. I don't find it funny one time like <hes>. Let's go with a cat like losing this fight my man. I know some people like like oh. You'll get screwed knowing screwed into these fights. If you wanna get for yo. There's an argument for it but i really i gave it to wonder doc paul kosta those phenomenal fight the other m._v._p. Are give to my boy cory. San diegan san hagen eight corey. What's his nickname. How how is he not. The sandman corey the salmon sand hagan. How is that not a thing. What's his nickname did. Did you have one no well. How's he not. The sandman forgot states. What a great name there was. There was a man before for you to was <hes>. <hes> core is interesting because when i start at high altitude martial arts in aurora colorado <hes> he came in there and he was a basketball skinny basketball kid who walked in. I didn't know anything athletic from bath ball. I mean basketball. I don't mean like fucking. He was a part of the you know. A all star team is to white kid who's trying to play basketball. The slim shady walks in the gym not knowing how to throw a punch and now he's right <hes> hobie top four after this top three. Maybe you beat a sense a sun sal values go and sizzler <hes> so before that he beat lineker straight up dismantled lineker just executed to tea and then <hes> <hes> you know he just beat asensio so lineker the split. I guess <hes> me definitely at work in that fight definitely outclassed him. He's undefeated in the u._f._c. <hes> i just beat the science out assange house right number two or three lower thing was he coming off that loss they had like sterling erling and yawn of him <hes> he would re use three because you have more is get sterling science out centers only lost chimeras in t._j. Right yes so you've got you. Gotta make inhaling three make the salmon in three. It is stacked there man. It is frigging stack there yet. You kinda get a jam at the top they don't you. We like peter jon. Will you do a sterling. Do you do say a man verse. Marla moore is that'd be fun. He's probably he's probably one or two away from a title shot. I can go nine and then just a title shot unless you're pollock cost yeah but that's different marlin big tests because he just fought for the title so winds are really good test. I like that for him. Avon's finest the sandman korsantiya the sand man. I'm trying to make that a thing. Make some salmon t-shirts cody donovan. Hey aurora stupid game got one now. Let me think out of aurora out of our crew and denver. I mean shane car was off. See interim. I'm channel but outside that he's the highest ones ever been ranked out of there. I mean nate ricardo's osce a beef that time duane ludwig but currently down at something in hot second since <hes> grudge team dissipated great card. Oh man exactly what those boys needed great card. I was excited to come here and talk about today and that's a good thing because i haven't been excited talked about the in quite some time but these cards bring you right back in. They bring you right. I te back in the this. Night's one's a bad one. The yeah the the one in china is that this week that's no. It's next. It's like thirty. I i think is that next week or next. That's in two weeks olympic dam. They said enjoy that yeah. Yes like that shit <hes> yes so here's the china card though i'm i don't wanna get into that trying to cook however after that. You got a even the even that card thank you make your big fat heart the main events phenomenal but other than that i was looking at this morning fuck dude the fights in dubai right or abu dhabi barboza felder rematch though through that's a combing event act insane sandra hodge zang is august thirty first yet that the fuck out of my faith could be poor a saturday september seven card for me. Barboza feld is cool but it's like combing event yeah. How dare are you crisply is he. He's probably on higher-ranked. Guys out of your your colorado. Yeah there you go chris blades as a monster fighting a aw guys every bit of sixty four years old schimmel abba dirac amove number nine have you in the world yeah cards not and that's a pay eighty per view huh yeah of course poor <hes> boy eh and that eleven a._m. Women town for that. I wonder if we should campaign for that one. If all of a sudden you guys oh yeah rogan's not going to go out there and sure bucknell yeah. It's just that bancard. Oh that mohammed. I thought that was a great fight apple as you're right dana. There's some there's some scrappy fights on. It's a hard core fans like fight card yeah not some. There's some fun scrappy fights but i do think that could be for sport as going to be a mother fucking scrap. I think people are in for rude awakening. They think <hes> the diamonds doesn't get ran through. I thought it was interesting when he was on food trucks so confident jujitsu pora yeah. I now think he would go for boxing but he was saying he was so confident in saying. I think people are interesting ground game off my back back. I think my jujitsu is is going to be key. Wow yeah that's gonna be out to go to the tough. Go round v something or i don't know 'cause. I don't see anything hang out any flaws in khabib. 's <hes> grappling game by you know i'll see the could be would be the favourite to win via decision. Your dog fight man. The things can be dogfight poor. He's looking beefy. Thank photos mullaly looks good. <hes> we had a food truck today man in between shows we got a our boy crawford thus box on planet earth straight up literally the best boxer on the planet. We could make an argument for chanko missy what he says. He's not like the most outgoing guy so. I'm always interested in these food trucks <hes> the kobe it'll be one. I told you guys as where he's do the gimmick thing he did do it but he also kinda got real with us you know and that's what i that was the whole whole point that those the whole point of it. If you haven't seen the colby food truck <hes> we upload the audio which we're gonna start doing with food trucks blown the audio to the <hes> the channel for blow the belt on itunes stitcher soundcloud shenanigans and then i'll see the videos there as well on the a below the belt youtube channel but it's a fun man. I thought the funniest thing too is so those girls he he didn't rent one of sponsor rented them <hes> and they came. They have no idea who are. They have no idea what their sign up for day. Let me tell you this. They were not having it. They were not they were not not happy and the funniest part is you'll kobe just doubles down like the gimmicky you know him being the hilly's doubles down and in between shots and he goes i which which one of view on a gimme massage and i it makes me like tighten up my goddamn brother is we're in this metoo movement but they are rented so he can do that and he goes <hes> <hes> he goes the twenty one union size and both of them literally the death is and i was like dude read the room wreath room he goes i which one of your good at like mike just during the shot while i'm talking with them while meeting with my in the the the black goes ain't nobody given your fucking massage and all yeah no doubt. This is probably best. The kobe us come on. You just won't put your hands on. We won't talk my friend. She's like no. I was like dude. Just give it a rest is like <hes> it's week. He just doesn't go. It was a those girls. Were were not added man. How about how about the one she goes so you guys like fighters right mike well. He is. I get along story. Just just stand there. She is when i can chime in. I'm like oh no no please. Don't i'll take it from here. Please don't just please stand there. Please don't say anything. Please just stand there. Please don't make this more awkward than it is for me. It was it was it was fun. It was just the most awkward food truck at to do today with a crawford will be fun. Though what's the one we kyla here sin coming out he'll harrison. She was good. I think people are gonna dig her story yeah personality only i'd only know about uh shooter alley. I hate when everyone agrees with what i'm talking about. She would argue with me about the fast. Yeah she's sassy. One way who they find the naito tale romeo form tonight wow and cama worthy not gonna give to nate diaz after three or layoff interesting interesting interesting also <hes> lou thomas you fucked me on that derek brunson in heinisch pick. I was picking brunson and you're all i'm telling you i'll believe a lot of guys is with the n. says he's gonna walk through derek and other all right. Well shit man. I guess i gotta pick in heinisch. Just wanna make that clear. I'm jake though game that vicious had kicked support for below. The belt comes from manscaping. Who's the number one in men's below the belt grumman room in get it get it. <hes> manscaping offers precision engineered tools for your family jewels fellas. We've all been there yet that hairy very nut sack you just trimming it up so it doesn't look like an afro you know what i'm saying and you nick them nuts and that thing is bleeding. You can't stop the bleeding. Don't don't do that anymore. 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Shout to max hollering when my face but i can't remember how dc enter my life he's like the kid who sits at your lunch table talks you just so he can eat some of your food now here. We are my big brother and my big brother to be captain tocchet coach jerry high like season about the belt you take from the sports about what you leave behind so many of us out here chasing things for ourselves in d._c. Benign here chasing the next lunch lunch tables find the next generation he can pay it forward to. I don't know what d._c.'s family was cited do but i know he's has nothing left to prove preach and even and if he did well all still be here proving for him every day own were done. It'll be some kids from gilroy taken our spots still proving what doesn't have to to be proven anymore d._c. Is still always be the number one pound for pound. Daddy s man on the planet bruce buffer. Don't need you in there to do. His job by nietzsche should do mine rest up. Get back to my lunch table big brother. I love you. That's fantastic yeah. I'm i'm telling you man. You're not around this sport. The water cooler you well besides john j-o-h-n but even him i would assume we laid down a night. You won't hear a bad thing about d._c. What he's done for the sport and what he's going to continue continue to do for the sport. He is one of the best human beings on this planet so as max holloway thomas some real motherfuckers some real deutz eight to cuss there but that's that's the best that some real motherfuckers men just good people really really good people. I saw thing when <hes> encana choked meal when dc see get out of the cage and his dad go or his son just popper retire and he's what if i did with it bother you if someone goes no it means we'd have more time together. That'd get commands the dead yeah what else <hes> another guy asked him to retire. He just wanted him see and said that he just wanted to say that d._c. He doesn't have to do this anymore. Whatever happens after the fight. He wants him to retire so he said before d._c. Fought yeah in. I think this is a case to as like like when when you're a cage fighter man the <hes> the repercussions of stick around too long like one of the reasons you you do. This is is to beat some of the best to be the best and then at some point. You hope you can parlay does something else. Will d._c.'s done that. There's nothing left for him to do you so the old there's pros and cons pros to stick in around you. You're you fight steep a you. Get your belt back and then you retire. Okay get the belt back right that. Was you know you've had before the con is you take one more shot and it fucks you up for the rest of your life and then affects the way you play with your kids. It affects your your post career life so i just doesn't make a lot of sense to me and if money is an issue which is not with him. He's a frugal guy. He's got some huge paydays and he has other other income coming in. Why do it d._c. As a friend why do it knows the closest people to immoral saying to all right. We're good man. Get out get out. Get out <hes> so could be said this weekend arm the knockout this guy and debate i want d._c. Fisher mossy you want him to retire oh he says even before here's a job he has money. One of the greatest asked to compete in the u._f._c. so i wanted to retire. Forty years is different thirty. I agree thirty eight to forty. You're talking about a world of difference difference. I want him to win this fight and say guys ahead. Stop this. I feel that d._c. Yet could beat on percent correct next one yep this one i didn't notice notice until recently <hes> so after that crazy and corey mazal knock out of ben aspirin that knee there's video that surfaced of a pet saint like man i loved it and this is obviously a partner with aspirin weird. He said this behind and then dawn dances the one that posted this to rand asking what the fuck shit up house. How are you doing. I was happy because my team beautiful as nocco so obviously problem with this he he just could be anybody but i'm sure even if his if it was his own brother a flying knee knockout three seconds like he's i got sucked my teammate man but she it was incredible for guy anthony pettis who's a knockout artist who said some of the craze knockouts. He's like damage. It wasn't credible. He's not saying and i'm glad that was fucking. Band got dealt with man. Just lets him talking still. That's a tough one. I don't have a problem with it at all all right. I'll probably that ben had a problem with it. <hes> i agree illness unacceptable showtime b._f._f.'s but i thought we had respect right kinship. We're feeling statements like the hoping the close up and make his feelings. I don't take all right well. At least it gives them something to talk about. Mao zedong chimed in your great friend been asking someone to clear up the day of their fight and waste brainpower and your feelings yeah yeah what else yet obviously the biggest one l. conor mcgregor hitting getting an old by hartman can't fuck with them anymore can we. I finally have to stop defending him. This visit thrown thrown the dalai during the other stuff <hes> bean up goons in dublin slapping some fat dude tan <hes> <hes> in his phone drops. I don't care about any all right all right. This dude can't defend them. Can we know there's nothing we can do is just sucker punches old man because they don't wanna drink his whiskey and i guess the story is he went into this pub and just bought random. The people shots of proper twelve and one guy was like nope don't want it gives a good drink it. You gotta realize a lot <music> as big as a star is connor is a lot of the irish people don't fuck. I don't like his antics and i've been in dublin. I'm saying they like him for for what he's done for the sport and he represents them and he's star. Does a lot of people go. That's not the way we act though we're we're not that flashy. We're not talking shit like that so a lot of people especially now now that he stopped winning a lot of fans like dude we he doesn't represent us and then this dude. That's an old man. Here's my problem. Convert has two kids. He has two kids when your kids sixteen issues in school. I will fucking giving advice your punching old bendinha barks. They won't drink your whisky with the old man say he just didn't want it. There's not a thing on a planet. An old man could say to me that makes me punch him in the face. There's no words in the english language that can make me punch an old man in the faith especially five a hundred fuck and million dollars in the bank. Why are you liked this. What is happening can't defend mckinley. We cannot defend them. People are turning on conic done well. You don't mean man the biggest. That guy needs to figure out how dr that fucking food trucks. You should see this morning. Go back and forth anyways <hes>. I love connor what he's done for the sport whether you represents how he brought all these eyeballs spore had been. There's nothing better. What are you doing man. I just can't fuck with it anymore. So the rumor is says here that the man punch or the man punch by connor refused to taste this whiskey and said. I don't want to drink that shit but i mean that's not even a connor everyone in dublin fucks with connor other so when he comes in this random bar this old man get hammered off jameson or some shit and you put that shit you punch him in the face. What are we seven years old. I mean obviously is not going to fight for their denning. Give a fuck. He's like sweet bro old g dude. That didn't some guys. You don't wanna hit like that man especially in dublin. There's some guys i sir pretty well-connected. That's the one that does even address it. Does he just like he posted recently about. I beyond a g. q. magazine. Oh diddy isolated posted his kids like like third birthday or some shit like in a castle yeah. They did that one too. That was earlier sure but today he did something like this week's attack or something on the headlines he just uses that but because this happened like months ago right april aprilia oh yeah that law where they can't release a person's name unless there's official charges place. It's a monitor to be on the front coverage eq- this month in august as mcgregor it says attacked the week and i read the comments obviously at a lot of them are just. They're talking about hitting an old man. Did you punch the magazine publisher. I see stiffness in the elderly division mcgregor. There's a certain things you do. Even if you're irish irish you don't fuck with it like we just like. We can't tolerate. Here's the other thing is he's not fighting. There's no there's no sign of either <hes> <hes> did he tweet about nadir's right. That's true. I i see that he would normally always be ready to go. Nothing no not against ma's brawl. D._a.'s like nothing usually he'd always throw those colonels out to get the deified. Just kind of keep us like oh come on do do. How do you think that hits them to when he was calling out when nate was calling out mazi dahl i'm sure connor was thinking maybe he would call them out after that win right. It's brilliant brilliant move by ideas brilliant move brilliant move not to chase the ghost of mcgregor right now. Do you think almost puts him in a position of being being close to the a side i yeah exactly i think i think now because what connor's doing we're all like all right man we're out and then nate diaz somehow somehow gun from healed foam. We're like we're rooting for him to get paid wants him. Fight big fights yeah. You're kinda like holy. Fuck nate diaz the good dude here yeah just because what connor all the shenanigans he's done and for me to go dude. I can't defend you is sh truck. Load is a truck loan. What else you got <hes> doing here. Response to it yeah. It was on jim rome. He can't defend them wants to fight right now. Dana apparently has been fighting without your knowledge see at video t._m._z. well that that happened in april right and i knew that happened they just they just got the video. That's pretty bad all right. So what's your reaction to that for those who missed this. There's a video of connor allegedly punching. An elderly man alleged right back. There's nothing alleged about that. He caught him with the left hand. We know what kind of damage he does without left hand. What was your reaction. When you saw video. Apparently this was in a pub in. I aligned and it was an argument over whisky. You know conner has a whiskey now and it was an argument over the whiskey and connor reaches out and hits them with the left talking yeah. I don't know the context of it. I don't know the entire story but yeah he punches the meeting. Older man old man conor mcgregor guy says no the whiskey counter punch in the face. Usually i need some sort of background this. I don't need you can't punch people in the face. Man god damnit connor gets. I love connor. That's fuck. Dude can't defend human. I mean there's video footage of it. I heard it just ruins my face at at the seat and hear all these rumors like with the john jones stuff like did all right. I gotta see i need more than this and what happened here anything since new your boys right what else you got all right this happened obviously before the fight with nato's and pettus but he was smoking something and everyone is talking about. Oh crap is it. We'd but may was just doing a c._b. Meaty joint during his pre workouts shut c._b._d. If it ain't pure spectrum in eight shit though <hes> good for him smokin men that i mean that's what he does right. That's like conor whiskey nate lead so where does he let them next as he's gotten up at post-fight open workout and even the crowd to watching u._f._c. I'm just i'm hoping he doesn't like post fight interview sometime with rogan in the cage like with rogin rogin it'd be. They said that the only reason you can't do it because if it's in competition but you're saying c._d.'s light up where why i mean obviously you can't do inside the cage yeah. I don't see any rules. I mean. I don't think there's a rule for you. Go on it. That'd be dealt. That's probably the next thing fuck. Yeah sure that'd be like a fire role he in trouble for the we'll do vape pen. Let's see there. You go all right all right. This is another surprise c._b._d. Companies uh-huh okay. You're right. He's a real eye catching on was released from the interesting. He says it when it was mutual. She wanted to get out well. They wanted her to fight but she was also working on a movie or something or something like a big project and she says she wasn't gonna take the ultimate in this time so they want to take those minimum this time so i guess you can say it was mutual add project. That was very very important to me and to them. We comedian fans. I need to put me team. I son my training in that. I had anything to give to the u._c. Shit it's shitty time would happen. I'm still fighting radio. Fuck shit up. She's a big star to write for for women. At least she has a name for product was a movie. It's got to be a movie. I don't know what is your move. Let's say it's a movie in last year. The new wonder woman. There is no big project. You play in a bad guy. Expendable nineteen isn't a big project that is not gonna pay your bills. That is not a career when people tell me this. I do wanna lay off for the fighting a little bit. I'm gonna starring. Fucking wesley snipes blade nineteen. I play one of the vampire. Just see me in the club. Bob hold up that is not a new career. Trust me it ain't it ain't life changing. Only people live only real actors which were in it for the long haul or have a huge cameo name or making real money. You're not making shit. Hopefully it something dope mall two hours goes. She says she partnered up with a c._d. Distillery everybody driver line. Everybody turn jump on the c._d. Train maybe that's it well no so he can still fight be part of this. I mean she has to be an ambassador and travel everywhere chen. Please stop. What else could it be. That's not a project either this or i'm moving you went. Stop fighting to be a brand ambassador c._b._d. 'cause the only way you're going to grow. Your name is by fighting u._c. It's not conor mcgregor her. She just dip out and like c._b._d. You know proper whiskey. Did he signs with someone else or abbess. She does hundred percent yes. She's a bee's man then you'd fighter wish you the best assume bill tour championship. I don't know it's tough. It's listen. Let's let's be honest. It's tough out there. You go one championship. You fly nineteen our flights bugging cinema great mom though tough check man what else you got jin amanda nunez germain enemy to suffer u._c. To forty five again for men and news. I stick around in just for pros. Cons pros fighting germain durant emmy cons. You lose complete disaster <hes>. I don't get it but she wants to. Fight there you go. It's something and then here's a surprise stefan struve remember. We were talking about this a while ago. He put his gloves on the side like he was gonna retire hot damn and thus retires through he so this is third time bro. He's fighting ben rothwell next. I need a great fight for strategy a i've ever seen someone retire on retire retire on retired like do it like he put the gloves down. He's like i love it and then two months. I wanna take a fight man. I was just fucking with you guys but at least they're given fights yeah what else she i write this i saw recently anthony joshua and lennox lewis or kind of going at it online to bread views although lennox is kind of british so this is how it's this is where i think it started. I agree mccracken as a great training training but maybe just not one a._j. Need he needs to teach them the staff and cried to rule the heavyweight division. I can't link it that fight agree that age was fully prepared for res brought to the table and then i guess the likes of lennox lewis came back from massive losses. Lennox is a clown spin trait legacy they so that's what i was about to say. Is this all part of the legacy. You compared to what medicines do nothing to say. My legacy is sit back and enjoy the younger generation coming up and not to really be involved. Just appreciate what what it takes to get lenny says the lineup me and then it's cut from a different age as defensive ages. One hundred percent british us born raised their eight lennox the one of the reasons. I think lex he like remember. He was like canadian for awhile. Al like jamaican english was like dude pick a lane here is that users trying to figure out but <hes> disappointing ages words understand dan that this chelsea was going after them for wilder negotiations all of a sudden. I'm a hater as benefits from such a simple minded narrative not a._j. Not me yeah he likes has good point there. I think <hes> this week's worth of cast me as a hater produced careers nonsense. It all started with the rightful grissom for not doing enough to make the water fight happen. I won't be pitted against a._j. The hearn agenda <hes> good stuff by the way good work with a._j. League ford the big one can only be one winky face. Yell lennox lewis ain't wrong in any of this that i mean listen. I know anthony john and i like anthony joshua a phenomenal fighter at what eddie hearn's done with them as a fucking shame and he has mishandled that dude more than anyone i know and now you're fighting in saudi saudi arabia jesus christ at the weird thing too is andrew. He's was saying that he he still negotiations to fight. The data was a saudi arabia throwing who makes real money off that is eddie hearn yeah because it only seems like seven thousand or something like that. It's not saudi. Arabia has some huge economical issues like huge economical issues so this is trying to divert that and be like look huge heavyweight title fight here your blood money man makes no sense in any facet sept- put money eddie hearn's pocket. You think you don't give a fuck about the longevity of anthony joshua. What's better for grantham joshua. No one's been more mishandled than anthony joshua. It's been a nightmare for him and he lose. Andy rees dish. That gets really sad what else you got. You mentioned movies not paying that well well and also an m._a. Fighter in a movie francis ranson gano. We'll be in the next fast and furious pry played a bad guy right that guy. This is is from deadline yep. It's cool. It's cool for sure all right now. It takes them away for fighting waiting for the world. You always to always mentioned once they start in the movie stuff and right now he's going. He's getting good understanding. Everything goes in check and then these going than hollywood hollywood. Hey dude here's fast and fierce nineteen people are gonna watch it but really make a difference s tyron woodley. He's been a thousand movies. Has anyone ever come on dude. You're the guy off of this. Everyone knows is the fighter. Get your boy cody garbrandt damn. He's up for a while yeah yeah. He's having surgery. It said he has a torn tendon but they're not saying what can like which tendon it is you do it in training or is it's been a while. She gets sergio while you. He is iniquitous kid by the way if you follow me on instagram beyond so he won't be back until twenty twenty damn. That's a long time. That's a bummer but does your <hes> your boy bigfoot. Silva me throwing joined bare knuckle fighting. You don't join bareknuckle finding a lot of good options options. You know what i'm saying jesus christ you're not on that. I don't think they checked for much delay so he bought fuck up. People who the fuck is fighting bigfoot silva with bare knuckles on some indian reservation while he's on t._r._t. Fuck combat cochran bring in the cock. Bring in the dakota dude jesus what a nightmare his chin china's glass now though but he's he's on to yeah motherfucker eight mark hunts all his one of the best on t._r._t. Oh my word <music> what poor soul is gonna make seventeen dollars fighting bigfoot silva in bare knuckle fighting on some spring break reservation vacation in florida holy jesus who the fuck is going to take that man for sure. It's oh they'll find. They'll find they'll find his huckleberry kaneko that guy what else you got speaking of thirteen fucking go man that gets that stresses me out yeah but speaking to your i._t. I just looked at vitor belfort one of his recent posts and it looks like if you look at them especially you know his man doubles usually that's where it grows right when you have like a hitch g. the h. t._r._t. He looks like he's getting big dude. He's not all this when you had your good works are locked you think tim he's on the a._f._c. and he's fighting so in like his body's fucked up from all the <hes> the drug use so like he needs that stuff to carry on. I hope beeson here. He looks good man. Ryan loco could use a little t._r._t. Though he's off you ryan dude ask veto what he's taken. Though what else you got yeah jose aldo. He say's moving to bantamweight. What yeah interesting you had a hard time meghan trying trying trying to die. He said he he sat down with his team and that's what they wanna do interesting. I'd love to be on that team meeting. No one was like you think dude. God died a few times making forty five b. I want to go thirty five again. I'm gonna emphasize. You almost died going forty five. You think cutting ten more pounds is the answer that's insane. That can't be a good move. <hes> one quick last one here ouster over him and walt harris. They're fighting each other e._s._p._n. Seven and dc the fight for walt and then now we have not big news but tyson fury says that their rematch with with the onset is now confirmed and signed for february twenty-second in vegas <hes> obviously depending on if they both win their next fights pigg p. peg if if they went to the fan here jim wright big gift to lake waters fight not makes no sense. It makes zero sense cents to fight an ortiz. Who's not a big name. Who you barely edged out before you pass that test. <hes> it makes no why risk this this why risk the rematch that we're all that boxing needs why anti joshua has his insane struggles right now and eddie hearn his fucking that and typing the thing of across the pond wilder fury right now can cement themselves as the key market in boxing yet we gotta pray to the boxing oxen gods and they're bitches. That wilder gets passed ortiz. Now you're passing but knox's s. l. furious fighting some guy named otto balan who i've never heard of but i guess is supposed to be okay so presumably fury gets by. I would assume i'm less worried about fury fury disease fighting. These you know come on e._s._p._n. I get you but with wilder. He's not fighting some run them. He's got an awkward cuban south ball dat that was winning on the cards until you knock them out. Come with a right hand and has destroyed the last two guys who fought since wilder destroy bad destroy like fuck. These boys up jesus scary man or teases a nightmare. This is the wall and guy twenty. No he's beaten these like up and comer like prospects fears. You don't walk through this. I'm not worried about it but <hes> go back. What did fury what was the it was. Furious quote there. You're you're on it. There's a quote from fury there. It is tyson for <hes> where was that go. Back is about something fury. He's he's talking shit about joshua back when there it is very ridicules pussy at the josh after rival mocks gypsy king for auto wall and fight. I guess how joshua's making fun of fury jews do realize how your whole team looks right now. He has no. There's my fav- but with fucking john it if i'm joshua i'd lay low my man for right now. You'd be by any res before you start talking smack in but even the way he won and then now they're doing saudi arabia justice shit show over there be more professional and i. I like anthony joshua. If you had the right management you taught huge star my favorite gab. Look what eddie hearn dude with. Josh you shitting leading me the kids fucking walking money-making machine. Anybody could handle him. It's the mishandling the issue and that's what's going on with him. What else you got bella tour to twenty five the saturday. Mainly mainly the big ones are michio sergei kotov theory match and then this is nick knowles despite all nick newell shatman congrats dude <hes> rooting for a boy nick newell and then <hes> ben between metron slight favourite yeah. I bet mature knocks out. I'll go first round kale format fights. What does she got dude. That's pretty much it. Thank questions yeah we are also brought to you by the one the only my brothers from another mother who make the best supplements on the planet. I'm talking about on it on it. Dot com slash big brown. You get ten percent off the entire dam site with you want supplements. You need nutrition. Got fitness plans apparel. They had their sale stuff. They got content you looking for good workout. Maybe trying to join the keita club like me. I depend depend on on it supplements to make up for anything. I'm missing throughout the day throughout my meals. There help me get to shreds city. I'm down fourteen pounds dogs and it's a thanks of the products on it on a dot com joined the shred city team population. You guys on it dot com. You need workout ideas. You need just great apparel will get the best supplements on the planet the alphabrain when you're at work you got new mood the alphabrain instant you just put that little frick in powder hitter in your water in and autumn elon musk. I can't guarantee that on dot com slash big brown ten percent off your welcome kit strong the only only way i'm going to get to my goal to thirty five if i know exactly how many cars on burning rom working out how good sleep on getting i need my heart rate. I need all all that. I need whoop whoop just released the new wu strap three point zero which includes a new upgrades to their hardware on luke's a suit of new software features to their app app. The whoop three point. Oh strap has a five day battery life. I'm in charge mine over five days. This thing still going what is whoop whoop dare. It is kind of woop. Hoop is a performance tool to help you to track your workouts. Your recovery everything how much is straining recovery your heart rate you get the whoop strap which is a heart rate monitor that measure heart rate a hundred times per second twenty four seven twenty four seven it also <hes> you can charge it while while you wear it's super easy user get daily insights and analytics delivered to your app. So you know exactly what's going on. What's measure whoop measure recovery every your strain of full heart rate monitor with insights into your heart rate average rate resting heart rate max heart rate calories burned them out of the exertion. A user puts throughout the day your sleep who else mars your sleep gupta's whoop mars your heart rate throughout your sleep. It looks at your sleep quality. You sleep cycle how many times you're getting up. We're talking r._e._m. Deep sleep light sleep. They do it all provide sleep performance <hes> insights based on actually versus sleep that your need aid to get the rest whoop whoop dare it is whoop there it is gonna whoop dot com. That's woop w. h. O. o. p. dot com use the code code fighter at checkout and get thirty dollars off to optimize the way you train get thirty dollars off the membership which track exactly what you need whoop dot com. The promo code is fighting for thirty off your membership. Let's get to that kito kid stage. Y'all i got a bunch of weight to lose by october first. Thanks whoop hoop woop there. It is whoop dot com promo code fighter dogs. I once for manny moe nine five one. Am i the only one who's disappointed in an referee. Mike beltran cutting his his beard. I know i know that too. Sometimes you gotta grow up. You know people talking look like you're off sons of anarchy all the tied for the longest the nicest guy ever but also i bet one day just like the fucking my doing yeah people were speculating tucked in against darker all right. We're really looking for jat. He's big d nicest guy in the world. Big dude denies scan the world. That's hilarious like yosemite sam all right next one palm six seven seven. Did you find it weird that is corner if he was winning after the second round no a lot especially a lot of cerebral guys. You'll you'll see especially when the fights close like that they think they are dominating or maybe they remember getting hit with something so they always ask the corner kate just to make sure like 'cause what he can do a switch things up because he's such a calculated fighter so i don't have a problem with us the data you don't see it a lot but there are happens more often than not where if they're close like i wouldn't that round because they want to know exactly where their act if not especially guy like d._c. Will put a sense of burns into that next round. I'd have a problem with that. I'd also be like oh man. I tell you get fucked up. No i bet he does a lot more you. You think are some underscore kind underscore of underscored junkie. What should be the next move. Anthony pettis doesn't look what bad welterweight but he broke his hand in the ferguson fight and now his leg actually foot right from the diaz about did he breaks yeah well. He said he broke his foot. The good thing about at this is that seventy so you can go back to fifty five and there's fun fight the seventy but you know he's in the twilight of his career you know but dante pettis he's enough. We don't need to do anything but whatever he wants to do. I always watch pedophile. Men like operas proposal oof the fun fight doc tober berry green all right thoughts on the sudden passing of cedric benson fucking bomber played against him in college man for texas absolute animal. He's on a motorcycle right. Pros and cons meant pros and cons posted right right before that too right. What did you say this my saturday night and had a heart or my saturdays hard next to it and his motorcycle to assam. Mar high school played against his. I saw like i was in high school time but he fucked up when he's at texas yeah he was a beast phenomenal rhonda at such a shame motorcycle game. Though you know oh man the motorcycle gang joey member even so many athletes have just been like was that other basketball guy like jason williams. Jason williams is frank mir daniel strauss game over man. It's so sad yeah alright alright cast one zero three zero. What do you make of nick diaz as absence from any of needs training videos not in the corner etc. Is this fine. He still has to pay or something else he still has. Is this the fine he has to pay or something else like suspended from being a corner or anything like that. Oh is he still suspended. I it might be with a california commission thing because our dicks but <hes> maybe it doesn't it doesn't matter really great doesn't matter matter stood up a shadow from his brother. Yeah it's all good man all right cliff you underscore carpool nate versus mazda. I'll be the first non title pay per view main event of the e._s._p._n. Era to make it five rounds. I hope so i don't think so. I think that's a fight night card main event big deal though gets ton of us put on regular e._s._p._n. Don't put on implies implies on bullshitting that gun regular e._s._p._n. Get four million views like the blow that thing out. That's the that's the title for the people's champ. You don't make that pay per view. You don't make guys who are people's. Champs pay per views especially when it's not title fight. The thing will be a paper you if it's on pay per view. There's going to be someone else fighting and then they're gonna be underneath it combing but it should be a main event. Five rounds free fight night e._s._p._n. Said it that's it all all right man. That was fun man. It's first time excited talking about fights in quite some time in that car to do it man china one probably not but you know after that d._c. And i'm sorry you got a verse portray so that should be a fun one man. I'm off the road a little bit. I hit some downtime. <hes> which is rare. I <hes> <hes> not this weekend. The following weekend august thirty first the gold country casino <hes> about a half an hour outside sacramento nor- northern cali oroville california <hes> that is august thirty first brian cowen myself for doing a show together there one night one show only that's a saturday night after the pasadena ice house september twelfth wealth things almost sold out shaaban friends. I've dirt post in asana ma od chapelle lacey and some other big hitters there <hes> for one night pasadena the ice house that should be fun <hes> and then september twentieth through the twenty first. I'm in houston when my favorite spots houston improv twentieth twenty-first <hes> <hes> then after that i'm coming home. Mama denver denver colorado comedy works thursday friday saturday september twenty six th through the twenty eight and then ticket for pittsburgh and charlotte charlotte just went on sale for october. <hes> get them now. You can get t a dot com all right guys. Thanks for listing listing. Be nice to each other out there i._s. Spots all over l. a. for the next three weeks. Oh good chance to be at the comedy store the improv or laugh factory <hes>. I'll see you guys round. Be nice love. I'm out.

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#251: SESTA/FOSTA Hurts the Victims It Aims to Protect

Tech Policy Podcast

29:08 min | 1 year ago

#251: SESTA/FOSTA Hurts the Victims It Aims to Protect

"Welcome to attack policy podcast. I'm asking Kazarian on today's show. We're going to go back to topic very near and dear to our hearts and with talk about own previous episodes episode that we will link in our show notes to <hes>. We're going to talk about sex DANFOSS STA the laws that were passed through Congress last year <hes> to stop sex trafficking <hes> it was targeted and different Internet companies to kind of help law enforcement go through that however that law as we have warned was going to have a lot of unintended crucial <hes> negative consequences on different groups of people to joining us as clinical instructor and lecturer on law at Harvard Law Osco Kendra Albert Pillow. Thanks for having me. Thank you so much for coming Kendra. Tell us what is suggestive pasta successor in foster were two bills that were before Congress <hes> last year and they we're meant to amend section thirty and for folks who are unfamiliar section to thirty is like the bed rock of online speech law and what it does is it as y'all have probably talked about on the Pike as before is it protects platforms or basically anyone who hosts other people's content online from being held liable as a publisher of something for someone someone health something someone else says held liable as the publisher for something. Someone else says so what that means in practice is for example if you if you're a yelp and someone writes a review of a carpet cleaner that happens to be defamatory and says all kinds of things about their carpet cleaning that are just untrue that harm their reputation meets all the characteristics of defamatory speech under pre CD TWO-THIRTY THIRTY LAW. You could potentially be held liable for the <hes> for the that those defamatory statements about the carpet cleaner but C._d.. two-thirty makes us of the yelp can't be held liable for the but for the things that <hes> third party say so where all this comes in Whitsun Pasta is that there's been a longtime movement <hes> to sort of think about amending section to thirty to exclude particular categories of behavior or sort of content speech content or other types of content that people think are especially objectionable or <unk> are people are especially concerned about an infection in foster susta the two categories of <hes> things that people wanted to exclude from to thirty protection where material related to sex trafficking and solicitation of prostitution or sex work <hes> as I usually call it all right and <hes> just before we dive into what happened after the law passed I wanted to note from my perspective someone who was kind of in the middle of the passage and commenting on the law as a win further along in the process this bill had a big bipartisan support only two senators. I believe did not vote for it and Senator McCain. May he rest in peace. I think was already ill at that point so we don't know how he would have voted <hes> <hes> obviously all the members of Congress WanNA protect of sex trafficking and this was a very emotional issue there were victims and their families testifying telling their stories of horrifying details it was heartbreaking breaking <hes> while we were worried about was that heading the websites especially the websites who were not even participating or had any knowledge of <hes> of these awful activities it would hurt the victims the most you know. There's obviously a scale of economic negative effects that we're going to be on the company's but who cares if the victims are heard so that was our concern too yeah anything it's also worth noting on sort of as in the lead up to the bill. A lot of this was about a website called back page and so back page was a classified that service that particularly provided like erotic services ads and there was sex trafficking going on back page. I don't think that's like not really in down and no one you know. Senate did investigation investigation and in their report they had evidence that yes back page new let they had operators who would tell people who would call how to structure of ads and things like that so obviously they had full knowledge there were assisting traffickers they they were guilty yeah and they weren't in fact actually after that information came out they weren't protected by section two thirty they were brought up on federal criminal charges and that was before foster was even signed into law so lots of folks often attributed the takedown with back page two Cessna Foster and I do think that there's obviously a correlation in the sense that the will the political will that brought us pasta also helped bring down back page but one of the important parts is that foster was an actually required to bring down back page but you asked about consequences so let's talk a little bit of a sort of what happened after. After so I think that independent of your stance on sex trafficking or sex work or how you think the two-thirty immunity should be crafted. I think it's pretty fair to say that foster is not a well written law right. It's just incredibly confusing fusing. I see someone who's read at a lot in terms of trying to figure out what's covered what's not covered exactly how the limits on immunity work of how affirmative defenses work and it also sets up a new criminal Persian on call to forty to one a which is meant to to apply to the permission of sex trafficking or sex work by online platforms part of the reason this happened was not only the drafting problems but also that Saxton foster were two separate bills and foster was what we call updated it was foster two point Oh <hes> with the help of House Judiciary Committee and <hes> they it was by the way the Republicans were in majority back then and they put in our kind of criminal liability while not really touching section to thirty it was supposed to be the compromise and and the party leadership on the House side was slig- We know what what if if like half of the People Support Susta put them together at it feels like a good solution so they kind of mashed it all together and even though the offers of section two Ferdie <hes> Democrat Ron Wyden and Republican Chris Cox who is no longer in government both have opposed it in sad. It's not the way out. No one listened yeah so that you see that very clearly early in the in the bill in the law that was passed in lake divide between the two different approaches to dealing with <hes> sex work and sex trafficking the consequences of the bill passing were pretty swift. I'm so after it was signed into law craigslist almost immediately such shutdown shut down all their personal ads so they had already craigslist had already eliminated sort of it's more specific erotic services stuff so that was where people would advertise things like <hes> dominatrix is or new house cleaning which turns out to be a thing who knew craigslist list apparently <hes> but <hes> in the aftermath of foster they shut down literally like all their personal so if you ever enjoyed miss connections on craigslist. I have some bad news for you. It's gone <hes> it's a it's a yet another casualty foster but more broadly that was sort of like the kind of very visible threaded shutdown tumbler stopped having <hes> I would say nude content on it. There are a lot of things that were happening yeah. Although I'll be totally the honest I'm not entirely sure that tumblers decision around Nazi for work stuff had a ton to do with Pasta <hes> just because it doesn't feel like even have given the the lies very vague but even with how vague realize it doesn't map on super well to what Tumbler was talking about but you know yeah there were I think lots of platforms took a good hard. Look at like how they were handling not say for content content related to sex or that's explicit generally the other thing that happened in the aftermath is folks who sort of <hes> do sex corker modeling online reported that even like websites that weren't sort of catering to like or containing explicit stuff started getting back cracking down way more on their material so for example instagram has been banned lots and lots of folks who do sex worker who engage in sort of modeling or <HES> <HES> kink like selling king stuff online so there there's been sort of this. <hes> the sex were community folks. <hes> a lot of folks within the sex for community have spoken about how this law has not just affected them in that like it's much harder for them to make a living anymore because they're not able to sort of put up ads and solicit for clients but also like it can just be hard for them to go about their day to date lives because they can't maintain a pay pal account because they at one point might have sold explicit materials so that's been a real challenge with the law is and this actually resulted sort of as many folks who were against Oh law and paying attention to sex workers predicted in sort of actually widespread increases in <hes> what one might call human trafficking or at least people going back to a sex workers who were previously working independently because they could advertise online and sort of find their own clients and screen their own clients <hes> going back to <hes> pimps or other people who are sort of more abusive so there's been some research suggests that the number of deaths of sex workers sex sex workers I mean people who are engaged in consensual sex work not folks are under eighteen and not folks who are forced into it has increased quite significantly in post foster just because it turns out advertising online is a lot safer than like <hes> street prostitution which for many people is the alternative. Live if sex workers a survival strategy for you and we have worn about this and there are two things I want to mention so one of the things that we were talking about back in the day was that all of this will go into kind of a dark will be pushed into the shadows so so if we are talking about human trafficking <hes> when that was done through websites a lot of website recuperate with law enforcement and help them with Kobe with a lot of NGOs and other initiatives for example a foreign that Ashton Kutcher runs and and would help them find the perpetrators because obviously they didn't want any of that on their platform and they were in good faith with passage of system foster. They're afraid that they would be accused of having knowledge of those activities and now would make them reliable so they just kind of they. Stop it like put their hands up in there and they're like we don't know what what's happening. We don't see it you just figure it out and a lot of things were pushed to dark net so that makes it harder for law enforcement to investigate and I have to say with done some episodes in this and we have written about this law enforcement in general especially in state level doesn't have technological capacity to investigate in general so pushing things to a dark net. Let people don't even know what dark netted <hes> so that's number one number two is <hes> as you mentioned that sex workers had to go offline up and it's not even them offering their services online <hes> it's also the fact that they were organizing and sharing tips and kind of making sure everyone was safe. Keeping an eye on each other sex workers have one city on the number city things like that so it was definitely a community that was very supportive and was trying to keep everyone safe as much as they could and they're also also <unk> pushed into the shadows and that is creating this awful unsafe environment already seen numbers heartbreaking numbers to people dying disappearing going up. What do you think this conversation will lead to do? You think there will anything that would be done to correct the course I hope so we'll so the actually the point about sort of they're often called badge on this little lake lists of <hes> sort of <hes> clients that you don't WanNa work with if you're a sex worker <hes> is actually Ashley a really good one because it segues nicely into the ongoing litigation. That's currently happening regarding pasta so after foster was passed and signed into law the E._F._f.. And a bunch of other folks Af is the Electronic Frontier Fan Electronic Frontier Foundation Asian and a bunch of other very smart lawyers <hes> got together and sue the government on behalf of the Internet Archive Human Rights Watch the founder of wreath that rescue which was an organization that helps sex workers keep safe and provided like tips and material learn how to like of like that clients on and would hell sexual freedom found woodhall sexual freedom foundation which has a sex positive organization and I think there's one more there's an individual massage therapists whose name is currently escaping me and so they filed litigation challenging the law as unconstitutional and that was in D._c. and so that sort of briefing in that and then the court in D._C.. Found that <hes> throughout the lawsuit they dismissed it finding that the plaintiffs actually <hes> that Human Rights Watch Internet archive rescue etc didn't have standing and so basically they didn't have what a credible threat of prosecution under the law and so they were therefore weren't able to mitigate. I guess the question is so for our listeners to know what standing standing as the right right to sue and not everyone has a right to sue everyone which is a prison wire legal system partially works <hes> but at the same time that means that people who can suv are what sex traffickers themselves yeah. It was really unclear. You know I think reading the court opinion like what the District Court thought would like literally give someone standing granted. It's a pre enforcement challenge so they none of these parties are saying hey someone has sued us under foster or brought criminal charges under to forty two one a so like I think it's pretty clear that if someone actually sued you or if the federal government actually brought credible criminal charges you definitely have standing but I think that the the plaintiffs did have the right event in terms of they should have they do have standing and so they they. They appealed up to the D._C.. Circuit Court which is where it is now so that briefing I think the replied reefs in that case just got filed a couple of days ago so that we're sort of waiting for the D._C.. Circuit tell us if the plaintiffs have standing in which case it will go back down to the District Court to be tried had to be tried to get further along in your professional opinion. What are the chances of appeal being granted well I I? I would like to think that <hes> the appeal will be granted and I'll go back down to the District Court because I I do think that. The <HES> <hes> the organizations have suggested that there is a credible threat of prosecution and that more broadly that there is significant speech this being killed. I think what's tricky about it. Is it's sort of this weird dynamic. That often happens in First Amendment Litigation where ironically the very people who are subject who are worried about the law have to argue it super broad and the government argues that super narrow so when you read the briefing <hes> especially in the in D._C.. The government's arguing for an actually relatively narrow interpretation Kisha of the language of foster which is pretty surprising because when you actually read the language of foster it's susceptible to be <unk> being interpreted quite broadly and it's based on a lot lot of parts of it are modelled on the Travel Act which is the federal anti prostitution statute which is also really really really broad so the plaintiffs in in on the D._C.. Circuit Court and in D._C.. District Court or sort of arguing that a lot of the behavior that they want to engage in so for example like woodhall putting on a conference where they talk about like how to do sex work more safely how to decriminalize stuff <hes> sharing tips so on and so forth <hes> isn't the plaintiffs are having to argue that would be criminalised or would be suppressed under foster and the government is arguing that it is so in the one on the one hand. It's a little weird to have the Electronic Frontier Foundation Human Rights Watch arguing like yeah. This wash totally covers the stuff that these folks are doing on the other hand when good thing it does mean is that the government has had to put into briefing what it thinks the survey are on record <hes> the language of the statute covers and they've suggested and I don't think this is necessarily the best reading of the language from a textualist standpoint but they've suggested that they think that primarily is aimed at like advertising basically sort like ads for or direct solicitations of sex work or sex trafficking <hes>. That's not exactly what the statute says but if the government actually wanted to only interpret it that way I think that would be a much better <hes> version of the law the one that is actually on the books the question I had in mind was in that county in Nevada where prostitution is legalized would them running ads be legal or illegal so it's an affirmative defense under the statute <hes> that that sex work is legal in the jurisdiction your target so then you actually have a whole bunch of really interesting questions about like what does it mean to target a particular jurisdiction is it. Is it like you're serving ads to people in that jurisdiction. It's a is it like the equivalent of the craigslist Boston Danner Craigslist D._C.. Or is it like your servers are there. The answer is we don't know one other interesting thing right. Now is that lots of sex work advocates on like really large movements to push towards decriminalization which is not the legalization model. That's what's president in Nevada. The decriminalization is just saying just don't make it illegal to do sex work. Take the laws off the books that criminalized sex work and stop prosecuting for our listeners are not lawyers. What is the difference between making something legal and decriminalizing it yes so making something in legal as people may or may not know <hes> prostitution in Nevada is pretty heavily regulated right? There's specific brothels and there's a lot of rules about how you have to engage in that form of sex work in Nevada <hes> Lee that's legalization so there's a whole bunch of rules about how to do things so for example. If we think about like alcohol sales right alcohol is legal and there's all sorts of rules in every every jurisdiction about how exactly you can sell alcohol into can sell it etcetera etcetera etcetera decriminalization is in some ways the opposite of that which is to say you just get rid of all the laws that make sex work legal but you don't start regulating the process right. You don't say oh you need to have this. Sti Tests and you can only administer you can only do sex work in these scenarios you just get rid of the laws. Make it illegal and many any sex worker advocates <hes> sex workers themselves argue that this is the best model for dealing with sex work because sex workers are often targeted by the police and so the fact that sex work has criminalized or even legalized rate. If there's specific rules that govern Vernet those can still be even if it's legalized those can still be used by police in order to <hes> prosecute people or sort of harass ex-workers and you see a lot of that you know in street sex work for example. There's been multiple cases where being found with condoms has been <hes> evidence that was admitted at trial to show that someone was the sex work so someone in let's say a nice dress and will know how open our society is and a little bit more progressive and women dress however want and you know <hes> there are a lot of people who dress and identify Howard at one day. Let's say you're just walking something Super Sparkley and super short down the street and you have condoms in your pocket yeah so the Yes potentially. It can be used as evidence that you are going to engage in sex work and the reason that even more screwed up is because it creates exactly the wrong set of incentives because actually if you are care about like public health you want sex workers who condoms to be able to have condoms so in any case sexualization regulation decriminalization whole `nother topic but one interesting thing about it as relates to foster is that it's possible that decriminalizing sex work actually could create a sort of helpful law La Festa because of the affirmative defense for sex for being legal so if sex work is legal in eight jurisdiction then there are affirmative defenses under foster on the other hand that doesn't really help the large Internet platforms that are often the ones who are that sex workers WANNA use because that's where people are and who are often regulating sex workers speech so although there are some sort of like promising leads around Decree <unk> decriminalization activism that sex workers are already engaged in it. That's a long way Ah from solving the foster fussed problems. Are you engaged in any work around this issue yes so I've had the privilege and the pleasure to work with a number of sex workers on the issue and sort of hearing their perspectives and sort of getting to learn more about sort of where they're coming from an well. It'll be most useful to them and <hes> including Daniel Blunt who's fantastic sex worker activists from New York and one of the things we're working on right now is actually a sort of long form legal explainer around foster partially because what we realized allies was although there's been there was lots of advocacy work happening around wins Pasta was passed in there has been some more recent law legal work around sort of like consequences and potential challenges. It's actually really difficult to figure out what the law it does. <hes> by reading the text or what potential <hes> what potential strategies are most effective and so I've been working with the Gender Justice Clinic at Cornell Law School <hes> to produce a long firm explainer that's going to help sort of folks especially especially starting with layers but also non-lawyers navigate those questions and the other thing is that I advise advise individual clients with regard to foster compliance so I helped blake small organizations individuals who are doing work in the public interest <hes> <hes> figure out how great laws on the books you kind of still have to comply with it <hes> how exactly that should work where very lucky to have you because you obviously have such an extensive of expertise in many many aspects of legal field and obviously this topic <hes> to wrap up just wanted for listeners to ask you how did you end up and tech policy. What was your pathway to Harvard Law and teaching at Harvard Law and working with Cornell law clinics and all of us? You know amazing thing shiny opportunities well. It's it's really funny. Actually I mean I never <hes> I never really intended to be technology layer. My undergraduate degree is in a drama and history. <hes> I was actually a lighting designer for Technical Kinkel Theater when I was in college and I got really interested when I was in college about how interacted with science so I started learning about sort of like how handles epidemiological evidence that is admitted in court <hes> and this was like sort of my first encounter with the kind on of translational work that like tech lawyers do lawyers who have won. I introduced a science in court have to do figuring out how to explain to a jury or a judge or two people generally like incredibly technical topics in ways that are like not boring or so so that works sort of led me to the Berkman Klein Center for Internet and society where I worked for two years before I went to law school and then I sort of got hooked on top of center yeah. No I mean like a whole. It's cross a whole street from the rest of the law school school yeah so it's not very far so then I you know yeah. I just like got really I found that one of the things I really enjoyed was like being able to take technical topics and make them more understandable and that's true both for like Oh like cryptography right like helping lawyers or sort of other people <hes> sort of like lay people there were air quotes there which don't always translate the best on podcasting but lay people in air quotes understand cryptography but that's also true of helping technical. I think more technical people understand law so part of it is learning to translate that kind of work medium in between yeah exactly and so I went to law school and I knew I wanted to do tech policy stuff and I got particularly excited about computer security <hes> <hes> and so I worked for a year after law school at a law firm called Zeitgeist with Marsha Hoffman who is a former attorney electronic frontier foundation and and sort of like really got to like learn a lot very quickly <hes> about how to advise hackers <hes>. So part of my practice is doing things around sex advocacy and sort of like more general intellectual property or First Amendment stuff but like part of what I do my day to day basis is when working with students is actually have them help advise people on sort of computer security security issues like security vulnerabilities reporting. Actually we have a client who I really enjoy working with called voting village who are a bunch of voting machine hackers and they're all coming up with fun thing fund problems to solve and my guess is they're trying to find vulnerabilities not so people don't hack into machine so there there they find vulnerabilities in voting machines in order to help secure America's election infrastructure cork so I just feel really lucky that I get to do really cool work for really clans and that you know I get to work on issues like like foster where there's a really important group. That's really been significantly impacted by the by legislation who isn't necessarily the ones with like a lot of representation Tation D._C.. In that is sex workers so that's a lot of you know understanding of their lives just sympathy unfortunately yeah totally so. I think that that's been it's been really I've been really grateful on Pasta to be taught and to be learned from a lot of fantastic tastic advocates who've really spoken about why this matters to them and how this turns changes their lives and then using that knowledge to better understand what's happening in the court case and also how to advise clients and for listeners who are considering law school or are in law school you you have to understand that clinical professors and <hes> people who go to clinics are doing God's work. That's something that you will learn and you will understand and it's one of the most valuable things he can bring out of law school <hes> because is that's real life experience. That's understanding. That's thinking like or not just in a classroom setting or in an exam setting. It's actually digging in working with clients figuring out who you are in Your D._N._a.. As alert is obviously very different the people in their phone styles so thank you so much for that that's kind. I feel like you know yeah. I mean I would say for students who are listening doing clinic is not just doesn't have to be my clinic but <hes> doing a clinic as a fantastic experience because like it's one thing to look at something like Pasta and say hey this is really confusing like us which they drafted it better but when you have to actually advise a client on what they should do with the law it's when you really start start to understand it and really get to dig into the details and I would say that I've done clinics both in my undergrad law degree and when I was doing a lot of your hearing United States and you know I've done human rights I've done a hero was doing domestic fi domestic I was doing domestic violence filings trying to get restraining orders and things like that speaking of God's work and it's not physically and mentally easy <hes> and it's not something that you know like obviously now I work in free speech and surveillance reform norman things like that so it's not something you don't have to go to a clinic but you're like I WanNa do landlord tenant litigation my whole the rest of my legal career. It's something that you should feel passionate about or at least interested in but you should try and <hes> even if you don't end up in that field it will give you an understanding <hes> big you know a big understanding and also respect for people who actually do it and go to work every day and then go home and try to forget forget think think about it <hes> so yeah. I hope this this was a good little plug for law school education yeah. No I mean I think it's <hes> I feel lucky to get to do clinical work and I think that you know one of the I think one of the important things about technology or about a law school or anything like sort of in that space is that there you learn skills that translate even if the subject matter is not the same as the one you eventually ended up working on so this the skills I use in does I used in technical theater actually the same skills I used now. They don't you know I focus fewer lights now. Generally speaking <hes> but you know collaboration translation you know <hes> organization like all of that stuff is super relevant and that's true you know pretty much working on any policy issue or working at any clinic. Oh yeah absolutely we're GONNA linked to the work that you've mentioned and to your profile that has I'm sure vote things that you've written and to some exciting courses here at teaching in Harvard Law School in our show notes. Please follow Kendra on twitter of appleby also Lincoln the show notes Sir. Thank you so much for coming. I WanNa thank you for having me you can follow him on twitter and facebook at tech freedom. Please leave us her view. No one has left us to view in two years so I don't know how I'm doing last time. You left a last time you left us. Review Evan was still host so am I doing so oh great. You have no feedback guys. Come on. Give me some tough love you asked for it. I'm asking for it. Hey comment on my accent. Do you understand the words I'm saying. Tell me if you want different topics come on just engage with me well.

prostitution Harvard Law School craigslist D._C District Court foster Nevada Circuit Court Kendra Albert Pillow Pasta Senator McCain yelp
LGBTQ Retirees: Theres a Silver Lining

Move or Improve

26:39 min | 1 year ago

LGBTQ Retirees: Theres a Silver Lining

"Let's say you just bought a house bad news. Is your one step closer to becoming your parents. You'll probably along and see if anybody noticed you mow the lawn. Tell people to stay off the lawn compared to your neighbor's lawn and complain about having to mow the lawn again. Good news is it's easy to bundle home and auto through progressive you've and save on your car insurance. Which of course we'll go right into the lawn? Progressive Casualty Insurance Company affiliates and other insurers discount not available in all stages situations <music>. It's a real pleasure for me today to have Susan Messina. She's the deputy director at Iona Senior Services in Washington in D._C. Which is a locally based nonprofit as an out lesbian she secured funding for and CO facilitated L._G._B._T._Q? Aging ageing-related workshops and serves as the CO chair of the L._G._B._T._Q. Ageing services network as well as many other l._G._B._T._Q. related outreach programs and I'm so pleased to have her today because we are going to focus on the T. Q. Community and their issues with aging and having a social life and what their problem started. They may have to overcome so thank you so much for being my guest today Susan. I really appreciate ashamed it. I'm delighted to be here. Thanks for having me. Let's start because I don't know how many of our listeners are gave us a straight. Let's define if you would and the acronym l._G._B._T._Q. What does that acronym stand for sure L._G._B._T._Q? Stands for Lesbian Gay Gay Bisexual transgender and the Q. can mean queer which is a term that younger people have taken back used to be a slur taken taken back and being used with pride. Sometimes it's also used for questioning. Maybe someone who isn't quite sure their sexual orientation so it's quite an alphabet soup but we try to use it to be very inclusive. Everyone's experience with same gender attraction interesting. I'm glad you define that for everyone so we're trying to educate as well as the find out the other issues that people in the L._G._B._T._Q. Community are facing so could you talk a little bit about what some of the specific challenges are aw that are faced by L._G._B._T._Q. Older adults. Why are they more likely to be aging alone sure there's some new research search on this? There's lots of anecdotal conversation. It's a rich area that people are very concerned about these days so based on my knowledge reading of that. I'll say that some of the issues are Dr childlessness and low marriage rates so people who were forty thirty forty fifty probably getting married at a much higher rate than someone who is now seventy five eighty ninety who really experienced living through times of great oppression here in America where they could not get married and certainly having children children was very hard and so many people rely on their children or their partners to make to deal with aging obviously that community is just going to have less <hes> <hes> there's another issue I'd like to tell you about which is possible estrangement from family of origin. Many many of our older seniors are older l._G._B._T._Q. Community entity members lived through times where being gay was so wrong and they were literally son from their families. Many moved to the coasts or move to cities ladies and many of them haven't had contact with family in decades. You know it's very sad but it's true exactly <hes> there are other issues. <hes> social isolation is one. If you are gay or lesbian you may or may not have made deep friendships many did many have had huge important communities of <hes> of chosen family. That's a term we use but for other folks over more quiet introverted or shy or just didn't make those friends it's not easy to make friends and when you get older and still not easy to find folks <hes> with your same orientation <hes> potentially <hes> and then there's just the the things that happened in life people get older and their friends move away or they pass away <hes> I would be remiss in not mentioning H._I._V. and AIDS epidemic which took as thousands and thousands of lives cut them short. I I have one client here owner who talks all the time about how he lost one hundred friends the epidemic yes. He's virtually the only only survivor so he's made new friends but he has virtually no friends that you've known for more than ten or fifteen years. It's very sad very sad and I imagine they say war discrimination with healthcare and caregiver issues. Is that true or there's a there's a huge worry about that I don't I don't know if I've seen empirical evidence that it happens all the time. I've certainly heard anecdotal evidence that it happens. I don't know if we have the research to back up but it's irrelevant whether it was research to back up the fear here is there and the fear is real and the fear keeps people from reaching out for the health services they might need so we definitely know that people are concerned about access to healthcare. It's a big issue whether or not they can be <hes> out and open about who they are whether or not they'll get good quality healthcare. Those issues are compounded ended for Trans individuals whose bodies may not match their presentation and have to deal with doctors who may or may not understand that that's a whole nother podcast in the box and I'm very willing to discuss that because I think it's important to educate the public about these issues and <hes> Tom. There's so much that <hes> that happens that it's it's very difficult to cover it all in thirty minutes. That's for sure but <hes> I know you had he said there's a report that said the three biggest concerns of aging L._G._B._T._Q. Adults are finding adequate support systems and the quality of the Long Term Care Facility Services and access to those specific <hes> older adult services and how can what does <hes> I own it senior services provide that people would be interested in knowing about and can they find those types of services and other places in the country okay. That's a multi multi part question so come back. If I don't answer I'll I'll start by just wanting to highlight. Absolutely people are very worried about where they can age. They have to leave their homes. Which of course virtually nobody wants wants to do but if people do decide they need to move? Are they going to move to a facility that is accepting and kind and you know will that'd be discriminated against will they. Even you know even if the staff is friendly will the other residents accept them will have to go back in the closet. That's a term we use a lot reclosing. Go ahead gay friends who say well. I really don't know if I want to go there because I think they'll ask me as well. How how how many children do you have grandchildren and they they don't relate to that and so it makes it very difficult? It's a sensitive topic. That's exactly right even staying in your home. I'll pause therefore second even if you want to and can stain your home and can afford the home health aides. You might need many of the home. Health aides certainly a <hes> where I live in Washington D._C. Wonderful wonderful mostly women who are immigrants many from do not come from countries where being L._G._B._T._Q. accepted and in some cases where it's not even legal well <hes> people have deep concerns about bringing people into their home who might not be understanding or accepting of their gay paraphernalia that rainbow flag their partners photograph <hes> all kinds of things so it's a huge issue in terms of finding out whether or not facility in your area is <hes> l._G._B._T._Q. T._Q. Competent to that the question the second half of the question Debbie if someone listening today doesn't live in Washington D._C. Because our broadcast does go further out along the East Coast and some of the West Coast I just wanted to know if you could make that suggestion to them as to how they could locate services in their area. I'm sure they may already know if there are some but it be good to let the word out more yeah. I wish there weren't like I could just say go to Dot Neo W._w. Dot Blank <hes> com and find out the answers. I have to give a couple of other resources <hes> because there is no one place to find out where good l._G._B._T. Competent services are but one place to start would be with the local area agency on Aging. There's a federally funded website called the elder care locator which you may have talked about another <hes> podcast cast you can google elder care locator or phone it at one eight hundred six seven seven one one one six. That's one eight hundred six seven seven one one one one six. That's the elder care locator whether they are have a handle on l._G._B._T._Q. Resources I do not know but at the very least you could start with the list of <hes> facilities in your area and then start phoning them and honestly I think some of that due diligence is just calling up and saying I am a gay or lesbian person I am thinking of moving moving into or buying into whatever your facility talk to me about how culturally competent you are and if the answer is I I don't know that answer and and if they have an answer that's that's the beginning of some <hes> hope and help on that another place. Go ahead sorry. No you go ahead. I'm just agreeing with you one hundred percent i. I think this is so great good so then another place to look for L._G._B._T._Q. Specific resources is trying the National Resource Center on L._G._B._T. Aging aging <hes> which is run by sage which is a national organization looking at <hes> older l._G._B._T._Q. Issues according to my sources here. It's not completely comprehensive but it's a good starting point. That's the National Resource Center on L._G. B._T. Aging there's no Q in that one <hes> some l._G._B._T._Q. L._G._B._T._Q. Community centers or local sage chapters also have their own local resource list so I will take anyone is wanting to be a friend advocates the community a thing to do would be you start making some phone calls and doing some googling just in your local area and seeing what you can find chances are at least in every major city is going to be at least one <music> c._r._C. or one nursing home one long term care facility that is taking the lead on wanting to reach this community and therefore has done some training and has done some publicity eliciting around that and wouldn't if they have friends who have already made the decision to move for example into a care facility the word would spread read that way as well just buy personal referral. Is that grabbed or that absolutely right word of mouth would be something to really rely. 'cause you know you. There's another point I wanNA make any organization can slap a rainbow flag on a flyer or their front door and that does not mean the staff has had any training or that the the residents have had any. It's not so much training but you have the residents understood that they're living in a place that welcomes everybody so you really want to dig around and ask hard questions and asking if people residents who currently they live there is probably the best way to get the Info Yeah. This is very true. Just so that our audience listeners understand what does the is it is sage an acronym and if so what does it stand for I think it wasn't acronym and I honestly can't remember what it stands for so A._G. All caps <hes> all right and that will just WanNa make sure people know how to get the information but <hes> how are these challenges compounded by race. The economic situation like some people are course and people are very wealthy. Some people were fall in the middle. Absolutely well on the racial issue. I want to highlight is really good report that A._A._R._P. Put out just this March. It's called maintaining dignity understanding and responding to the challenges facing older L._G._B._T. He Americans so that's A._A._R._P. Wonderful survey put out by their research shop. Ask a whole bunch of questions but around the black and Latino <hes> concerns in in particular it seems that you can't you can't separate out concerned about healthcare discrimination in particular do their sexual orientation from or gender identity the from their concerns about discrimination based on their race. It's a double whammy so the the research says black L._G._B._T. Adults aged forty five and over are equally likely to worry about each of these aspects both of their race and their sexual orientation altogether aging as L._G._B._T. Person of color is more likely to carrie reasons for concern compared to their white counterparts so you know race in America and ethnicity very complicated and showing up in this study as something that <hes> is equally William concerning a sexual orientation gender expression interesting will is there a variation of that exists among Lesbians Gay men by people and Trans People in terms of their challenges and fears of aging does each segment had their own particular concerns or something yeah yeah some some things I can highlight <hes> it sounds like again from this research study that they call the Trans Community the Gender Expansive Community Right so folks who don't fit into a gender binary that they really do face unique counted and increased fear of discrimination as they get older and this also was fascinating according to this study while while many large cities have gender equality laws around gender identity equality laws to help protect people most transgender people do not live in big cities so there's this idea that that's you know. Cities are all liberal and we're all the interesting people would go and in fact are trans friends are around the country and that's a big mural country to it is yeah <hes> <hes> this is an interesting one more interesting thing about the differences <hes> lesbian tend to be living with a partner married at much higher rates than game end so gay men tend to be more or maybe more isolated than lesbian women which is not a complete surprise when you think about how women tend to affiliate and make friendships than men have more with that sometimes interesting very much so well what kinds of questions should l._G._B._T._Q. Older adults ask relating to housing as far as <hes> if they have to have a caregiver come in and or they're seeking a retirement community or long term care facility. Should they have a list prepared of specific items that they need to have addressed as well as Eric questions about <music> only yeah great question so I think some of those questions would be <hes> just starting big. Do you have a nondiscrimination statement. Do you literally say that you will serve everybody and asked to see it or it should be in their material has your staff had specific cultural competency training training or just even training around L._G._B._T._Q. Issues do you have any out members of the administration or other staff. Ask <hes> how comfortable you know just a soft question. How comfortable do you think you're gay and Lesbian Bisexual transgendered <hes> participants residents feel here <hes>? Do you have current families that I could talk to <hes> so those are some of the questions I would think that would be a big big question is I would have is being able to talk to others in the community about how they're treated and how they feel that's right and also I just WanNa yeah. Throw out <hes>. I'm sure there's not be surprised to you or most of your listeners. These issues really affect everyone there. Many many straight people who have gay parents have okay siblings have children and they want to know that they would be welcome to sit in meetings and make decisions and visit and all of that really really being being l._G._B._T._Q. Inclusive and culturally competent institution. It's only going to help everybody. I absolutely agree but there seems wants to be a lack in some areas about a feeling of inclusion and welcoming people <hes> regardless of their sexuality so oh but what what do you here specifically in your position at Iona from the L._G._B._T. <hes> community seniors about what their needs and concerns are from there standpoint what what issues come up repeatedly that you would like to mention sure happy to answer that question. We do a lot of work with individual <hes> small groups of L._G._B._T._Q. Older adults so these questions come a great deal. One of the top things we hear about is social isolation the need to meet people how to connect neck how to make friends how to find romantic partners as well and as I was I think I mentioned earlier a lot of those. <hes> resources may have dried up. Maybe it didn't mention earlier. It was a conversation I had this weekend with some people love. Those resources have dried up <hes> a lot of the L._G._B._T._Q. Bars have closed whether a bar is a place you want to hang out or not whether you drink or not that we used to be a gathering place and there are just fewer of them here in D._C. He's done a wonderful older lesbian conference once a year that drew people together to planet and host it and have it it and that went by the wayside fifteen or so years ago so finding new friends and connections it's hard I already talked about housing and the challenges of moving into a different place <hes> but a lot of it boils down to WHO's going to drive me to my colonoscopy. Who can I trust to be my financial power of attorney? I have no children and I have no spouse and my sister sister lives in California or my sister lives in two towns away but haven't spoken to me in thirty years. Who's going to be there for me yeah? This is very true when I know that so I own a senior services mission is to help people with the challenges and opportunities of aging and they've been doing since nineteen seventy five but I know some of the programming that you have personally spearheaded at Iona and otherwise for <hes> l._G._B._T._Q. Older adults. What kinds of things do you have programs? Do you have what is that process like and just chat about things that you are doing. I know you're just a wealth of information and expertise not on this topic and I'd like to share with listeners what you have done through. I own Iowa. I'm really proud of what we've been able to do. In the last a couple of years really really very intentionally this past year with a lot of new money so one thing we did is offer what we call our take charge age well workshop for L._G._B._T._Q. People <hes> it was offered Twat. That's better I mean we have a better title in real life but that's basically what it was. <hes> it was a full day Saturday in one day in April April and one day in May for twenty-five l._G._B._T._Q. Folks over sixty and we brought them together to begin to think about just talking about before sort of who in your network can help you. What do you want to have your aging look like? Where do you want to be living? What are your goals? How can we begin to make that plan and the content was fantastic? It got people thinking about planning for their aging but equally importantly and brought twenty five people who share a life experience together and there's so much joy and laughter and connection in those groups it was really really wonderful with those people they immediately have a friendship with them which is wonderful. That's exactly right and at least one one gentleman emailed mailed me the next day and he said could you give me the email for that guy I had lunch with until I got permission from the guy at lunch with and made that connection so who knows if there was a romance there or not but friendship that's right I know completely and then we say we got funding from the D._C. Office on Aging which is our government local government aging agency <hes> to offer support support groups for L._G._B._T._Q. Older adults over-sixties so we're running five of them right now and they just started. We've got a couple of people in each group and I attended one of them. People people are so excited to have a twice a month opportunity to come and sit in a peer support group model so this is not a therapy group but it's a little bit different from a social group. It's an intentional national conversation and it's just celebrated by train pure facilitator and there's a lot of need for that to meet that need for socialize decreasing social isolation. That's absolutely really wonderful. That's that's great. How has the older adult community in D._C? Responded to L._G._B._T._Q. Older adult programming what needs still exists assists. What do you want to still accomplish well one of the biggest us? How do we reach everybody right? There's no one mailing list people don't walk around Colored Purple Right so we have to find them so a lot of is word of mouth a lot of it. Is You know putting some ads on our local gay press but not everyone reads that so it's really reaching people and nats are challenge excellent excellent. I think what you're doing is absolutely fabulous. I wish I'm hoping that this program will help spread the word about it did and get more in conversation out in the open and how has of how hungry are l._G._B._T._Q. Older adults for the community and connection action it seems to me that what you're doing is really providing a wonderful service by having the twice a month <hes> sessions and other things but <hes> how can this be measured <hes> as far as the competency in an organization or company or service service level and structural and deeper than that it well. I think to answer the question of how it's being received. I think there are two broad categories of folks <hes>. This is probably retrievable miss any service you're offering. They're the people who really need it and then there are people who don't need it so I don't want to overstate the case and suggests that every older l._G._B._T._Q. Person In America or or D._C. Is is you know alone and childless and sitting in the room they don't know what to do. Manny Manny many of my friends have rich and full lives deeply connected in many communities these professional faith communities recreational opportunities and they don't need support group because they actually have enough friends and connections and things to do and then there are the people who for whatever reason those connections afraid or were never built and that's where I think a social service agency like I own can come in. You know we have a wonderful <hes> game game lesbian running group in D._C. Most big cities do call the front runners in the front runners they run. That's what they do and a multigenerational group and we have people over sixty there and there needs to ah connection and runner there. I ONA can help those who need a little bit of extra help well. You've been absolutely fabulous about this whole thing it. Is there anything else that we can add to help our audience <hes> find out more information or just what Iona services provides rides that <hes> people would be interested in because I know it's not just for the L._G._B._T._Q. Community but other issues that come up just with the challenges of Ageing and Endow we're going to have another guest come on from Iona who's GonNa talk about aging so low and that that's a universal topic. Actually though that's right one of the great things I ONA is that we have a help line which is answered Monday through Friday nine to five by a very very several very well trained Dan social workers someone give that number a couple of times and explain what it is again. Help Line is two zero two eight nine five nine four four eight. That's that's two zero two eight nine five nine four four eight. That's Iona helpline. Anyone anywhere in the country can call that number with a question about aging now now if you local to D._C. Obviously we billion resources and many of them might be and I own is building but if you're calling from Colorado because you've got a mother who lives in Louisiana and you don't know how to find her help we can at least get the first step of where to call in Louisiana. I urge anyone to make that call. If any questions really about anything related to aging we can try help now one last thing Susan <hes>. I don't want to keep you any longer but you have been a joy to have on the program. Could you provide an email L. or contact information for people to want to talk to you directly certainly so my name is Susan Messina and that's spelled M. E. S. S. I. N. So my emails pretty simple it's s Messina S. M. E. S. S. I N. A. At Iona Dot Org and that's I o n a dot org wonderful. Will I do appreciate so much joining me today and we'll have to have you back and if you think of some other topic that might be important for this this podcast. I hope you'll contact me because I think our listeners are very ready to hear what you have to say and you are such treasure trove of information. It's wonderful to have you. It was wonderful to be here. Debbie issue a good day. Thank you Susan you too bye bye bye bye. Hi It's Jamie Progressive's employee of the month two months in a row leave a message at the Hi Jamie. It's me Jamie. I just had a new idea for our song about the name your price tool so when it's like tell us what you want to to pay hey hey hey and the trombone goes Wah Wah and you say we'll help you find coverage options to fit your budget. Then we just all do finger snaps while a choir goes savings coming at Ya Savings David coming at you. Yes no maybe anyway see you practice tonight. I got new lyrics for the rap Break Progressive Casualty Insurance Company and affiliates price and coverage match limited by State Law. Let's say you just bought a house bad news. Is your one step closer to becoming your parents. You'll proudly mow the lawn and see if anybody noticed you mow the lawn. Tell people to stay off the lawn. Compare it to your neighbor's lawn and complain about having to mow the lawn again. Good news is it's easy to bundle home and auto through progressive and save on your car insurance which of course we'll go right into the Lawn Progressive Casualty Insurance

D._C Susan Messina social isolation partner America sage Debbie Progressive Casualty Insurance T. Q. Community Washington D._C CO Iona Senior Services Jamie Progressive Trans People AIDS deputy director google East Coast
Episode 8: Nudity in the Temple  TheOrisha.com

The Orisha : Right Character, Real Power, and True Tradition

33:00 min | 1 year ago

Episode 8: Nudity in the Temple TheOrisha.com

"Greetings Oh this is cheap you you're listening to the Arusha podcast and we're going to get right into it so let's tap into the question of the century <hes> the when that comes across my Matt so very often and that is nudity and the shrine nudity and the Coven nudity while Wicha leising is a right or is it wrong breath. I've had so many clients come to me and have expressed a concern about it. <hes> you know they've had godparents. They've had spiritual students and teachers who have told them that <hes> being being naked in front of your shrines is disrespectful and that you should clothe yourself a certain way whether that be an all black whether it be an all white or just nonetheless closed and then of course voice there is the other side that says it's perfectly fine and perfectly natural and there's nothing wrong with it so in this segment I'm actually going to tackle the question and sheer some insight on it and of course <hes> as with many things you can draw the best conclusion for yourself based on the information that is presented all right so first. Let's talk about <hes>. Is it right or wrong. Of course there is no right or wrong when you ritual ising. Oh you doing spiritual work you know there are there are consequences so you can have pleasurable consequences or less pleasurable consequences to the things that you do and you can't approach which you're doing fair here. That's essentially the meaning behind approaching something being fully dressed or fully clothed you trying to hide something. You're trying to keep something from being fully revealed so <hes> there's an inherent since affair that's present in that moment so the first thing they understand is that <hes> and I'm not saying that <hes> coming to coming clothe is inherently bad because it may stem from a sense of fear <hes> clothing itself itself if you look at it obviously from a physical perspective obviously clothing keeps us shielded sheltered unveiled from the elements are not only that but it it <hes> hides it's our current state and helps us to achieve the most beneficial outcomes when we are moving through society okay and of course depending on where you live <hes> different degrees of nudity are more or less acceptable and that goes to those who often use the argument that well they walk around naked in Africa <hes> they don't walk around naked in Africa <hes> for one there is no Africa so so there's no one way of doing things is no one culture oftentimes people use that excuse when they want to dress in ways that a salacious and <hes> they and they have fallen victim victim to the hyper sexualization of Western culture culture so then they say well you know in Africa they naked so what's wrong address on like this. They're not naked in Africa understand that when you're looking at the continent <hes> most of the times when it's being presented to you through the western I you're not not going to be shown high civilization you going to be showing the lowest civilization and the most permanent civilizations that exist on the continent there are many people there is a gigantic place but you're not going to go there and see people walking around naked and of course always the argument well. They were naked before the invaders came. They walked around naked however if you look at our artwork if you look at our even hieroglyphs you you just don't see people book. Make it okay so that's also not true. Okay again. <hes> people may wear less clothing right but <hes> the idea that everyone wishes walking around around completely naked is false. It's completely false <hes> even if you read and some of our ancient literature or what we use as as priests are Pataki's. You'll see that there's examples where people who are clothed and different things are aware in different type of gowns or wearing different type of robes a wearing different types of shoes different type of of <hes> clown. I'm sorry crowns so you know in that sense no all right so always understand <hes> sometimes people will use. They'll superimpose this this fantasy of what exists somewhere else in order to justify what they're doing in a different place where the rules and the protocols to cause a completely different of course when you're home you may walk around your your house completely nude. You may walk around your home completely naked right but when you're outside in the streets are you home. So you know the argument probably doesn't really apply so even if you considered <hes> this place to chew fantasize called Africa <hes> being your home when you're outside in the streets. You're not home right so oh sometimes you get the pro argument using that as a basis and it's very foolish non intellectual basis in its you know its its one-sided just for the purpose of proving <hes> or you know or justifying doing what someone may already want to. Do you know they need to get that that fake. <hes> you know Africa cosign you know <hes> of course we're there are warmer parts of earth people may choose choose to use less clothing. I dislike when it's warmer parts of the season but now let's go back to the ideas of of nudity and especially as we use nudity to maximize what we do when we ritualized ritualized that is one form of it <hes> sometimes being nude what is allows us to do is to connect with the natural elements around us and more real way without any obstructions from our clothing. <hes> it allows us to think about <hes> how we're presenting ourselves whether they be in a with our intentions a pure impure you know because we're completely stripped of anything that may hide our intentions and this is of course in a metaphorical metaphorical sense and like I said when you looking at clothing <hes> obviously it's a shelter from that which from the the corruption and and <hes> you know some of the targeting that may happen and the outside world now as the physical physical aspect of using clothing but then there's also the the metaphysical aspect of clothing and metaphysical aspect aspect of clothing is culture okay so which clothing represents is is how you recognize is doing things how you recognized as <hes> in the language that you use. Is Your clothing your culture as your clothing the way you move your clothing the way you talk as your clothing the way you <hes> remote issue clothing okay so from a metaphorical sense that your clothing now when you come into a shrine environment one of the things that you're working towards doing stripping yourself of of that culture you know 'cause you're you're coming into a more divine culture. You're coming into an opportunity and that that temple culture where you may evolve yourself and this requires you may be to strip ego so the way that you normally do things has to be removed all right so <hes> great example of that is a lot of times when people are given certain instructions. Sometimes it comes up in reading and I say hey you may need to do this or you. May I need to do that and sometimes people will say well. I'm not the type of person to do that or that's not what I've done or I grew up this way Ar- grew up that way see that's an example of someone refusing bring to bare themselves naked because they've established a cer- certain layers in their life. Sometimes we call the eagles. Sometimes we call it personality. Sometimes we call it history but nonetheless they've established certain layers that they I don't want to remove because they feel like they'll be vulnerable and they'll be exposed and sometimes even stripping down of those layers <hes> exposed their weaknesses and they may know that they have their weaknesses but they've kind on a push them to the side but stripping nude <hes> causes them to become more aware of the weaknesses they have and then of course maybe might compel urge them to address those weaknesses so that they can move towards a place of of more grounded security more grounded knowing and people sometimes they run really fast away from the things that cause anxieties so they now create these connections with materialism they they to create these connections with their clothing they create these connections with all the layers that they surround themselves with because they're too embarrassed to expose who in what they really are okay so within a shrine setting <hes> <unk> sometimes that can be problematic because <hes> and and again I know these concepts are somewhat controversial for some. I know there's some listening say no no no. You're not supposed to be naked in front of shrine and there's some that's gonNA listen say you're supposed to be naked in front of shrine <hes> when it comes to how you ritualized no one can really tell you what you should or should not do. <hes> individuals can again share consequences. This is based on universal law. You know this may happen that may have or will happen in time or that will happen will not happen in time based on universal law but <hes> we do not have a collective concept of decency and the reality is to collect the concept of decency that some have tried to hold onto is not only. Is it a fantasy but <hes> it's based on culture so for some you know a woman wearing. Address or a skirt that's above the knee is in decent for others. A woman wearing a dress or skirt above the ankle is indecent for others. It doesn't matter you see so the idea of of decency and being respectful in front of your shrine is primarily cultural base. Some may say okay being nude in front of my shrine is more respectful because I came into the world this way and I'm my lying myself to be revealed. I'm accepting who and what I am in the face of the energies that I work with and of course you know we call this idea being sky clad right and you know in the work that I do <hes> a lot of times. I've had to tell oh clients. Sometimes there is a lot of nudity you know and and this this form of spiritual work and it's an E.. Systems that that we work with you know there's a lot of opportunities that we have to <hes> do certain and things with our bodies whether we're doing certain markings doing certain works or we're doing bad so we're doing cleanings and things like that so you may be exposed to a lot of nudity but for anyone who's worked with me and I noticed a lot listening on the air who have worked with me. You know that I take all efforts and all attempts to make sure that the people I'm working with a comfortable so if a person doesn't want to be nude I don't say okay well that stops everything either. You stripped naked. Oh we can't do this. No now you know because the reality is like I always say the energy that you go into a ritual with is the energy that gets amplified magnified so yes wearing a certain amount of clothing or clothing period may limit the flow of energy that sent out from the individual or the flow of energy that a person is able to receive from the ritual but that's their choice you see the most important thing is that they're they're. They you have a level of comfort with what's actually going on you know and sometimes you know they may be again a little fear. That may be a little anxiety because there's a lot of these things is the call you know so it's unknown you know by its very redefinition. It's unknown but what substantiated is that when you're going through the experience is that if you're uncomfortable with nudity or you're uncomfortable with completely exposed being completely exposed completely absolutely baird then that's something that you're going to kind of hold onto more than kind of absorbing yourself into the experience of what it is you see so I never make data requirement to do in any type of work. I always try to have that discussion with clients and say okay. Well listen this. Is You know this may be here. This may be their. How do you feel about that? Is that okay with you if it's not okay then we can. You know work around that you know <hes> <hes> get phone calls coming in at four thirty A._M.. All right anyway so let me new that and get back to it so in any event so the idea there that <hes> nudity is necessary when you're in front of your shrine is not necessarily true doesn't maximize your sense of natural form. Yes it absolutely. Does you know <hes> again. When you allow yourself to be nude in the space you allow yourself to be exposed? You allow yourself to accept foul quote unquote the Naked Truth About yourself in Naked Truth About <hes> your environment so there's a great value to being revealed does a great value to being revealed within that that space but you know again understand that Ed nudity represents so many different things with so many different people <hes> one of the first things that is important to grasp onto when you're doing spiritual work is that <hes> so much of what we do is sexual so much of what we do is sexual you know and when I say sexual I'm not necessarily saying <hes> you know sexual in the sense that this is an amorous form of sexual but sexual just in terms of the interplay any the interaction with gender see that's the primary aspect to a lot of spiritual work so you having the masculine and feminine in Iraq with with one another constantly and we live in a society right now where there's a movement to remove the ideas of masculinity does a movement to remove the ideas of femininity does a movement to remove the ideas of how they come together and create because you need the duality reality to create you have people who are <hes> advocating the idea that women don't need men to create children and they can create sperm on their own and so forth and so on <hes> though we're not not really seeing <hes> too many too many real life authentic testimonies of that happening in this day in time <hes> but you know people will push any type of <hes> lies in order to corrupt the mind you know and that's why. <hes> your clothing is important. Your clothing or your culture is important because it shows you from an evil atmosphere. It shows you from a wicked atmosphere that would cause you to go down all sorts of twist and turn earned turns that take you away from <hes> the internal mathematics that that in that with equations that actually make sense in that bring freedom into your life I so again when you live in a society that seeking to kind of not only unisex realize but castrate manhood and and castrate womanhood then of course the idea of being nude in front of your shrine it is a problem because now <hes> once you knew you become aware of agenda you see and you become aware of all of the spiritual implements that already exist on on on your body temple for instance I can walk around and I can I own one's own different sceptres and <hes> some have even been gifted to me. You know <hes> drought just my experiences in my travels but the reality is I already have one so what if I stand in front of my my shrine imaging Gilly and I and I'm in my temple and I'm sky clad. All I have to do is look down and I I have a one right there right so I immediately gently become aware of the implements in in the magic that is created me. You know the core magic that expresses in creates me. If I have a woman emmy and I I looked down and I see her Yoni Tony Narrow already. I already get a sense of what these pots mean. I get a sense of what these colleges mean and I understand that while I have a one here she already has the culture in D._C.. So now I'm even more in tune with the interplay play between she and I that happens outside of this environment you see but again if I'm fully clothed or I'm ashamed of that idea. I'm ashamed of that science. Then what happens is you know I may clothe sloth myself completely in remove myself from you know that ancient idea or that primitive idea of the divine worship for each other's natural beauty that we've always held or the divine worship that existed in <hes> enjoying the natural form you know <hes> sometimes it's an idea that you know we're we're afraid of of disapproval so we go into our shrines and you know we're afraid to strip you know because or remain be afraid to strip in front of other people we may be in a coven environment and in a covenant may be ten or twelve other people you know or even in the L._A.. They may be a lot of other people in maybe three people four people five people maybe twenty people and we're afraid that they'll disapprove of what we we may look like you know. They're afraid that will aware afraid that maybe <hes> something that we've how to ourselves. It could be some some dirt we've done it could be some skeletons in our closet <hes> but we have this fear that people are going to know about it. They're going to know that you know we're carrying a certain are pretense or we're not being truthful about something that were actually Ashley being fearful that we're afraid of you know so it's that fear of total exposure in you know that's something that <hes> we have to work through. You know it. It may not be something that you can necessarily just jump in and and say okay well. You know what I'm just going to strip naked and I'm just going to forget about it. You know sometimes you have to do one piece at a time you know you may be someone. Maybe who has you know very flabby arms. If you've gone through a surgical procedure you know that's left certain scars on your things like that and you know you don't necessarily want people to know that and you're worried about people you worried about your own self image and you know that can be a source of other troubles in your life. You know hiding one thing. Sometimes you know the way people are are shaped of the weight that they carry on them. It causes them to change their posture and then once they changed the posture that causes another set of issues analyzed spying issues now they have issues now they have issues with their rectum because of how they're holding their posture you know <hes> now they having issues with his shoulders and they all necessarily like how they look in clothing and so so forth and so on because of what they're seeking to hide her their worries that they have about self image or certain things being exposed so one thing you know reverberates out to another thing right so sometimes being nude you know or being sky clad in front of your shrine or in front of your <hes> spiritual implements is a process. It's a process of uncovering and you know sometimes is we have this imposed on condition conditioning on our minds that comes from you know social engineering and it takes time to really look at that conditioning and to strip some of that but also. Oh to <hes> see how much has been lost in the conditioning and when I say lost a lot of times it's children. We don't necessarily have those same hangups because we don't feel that sense of shame about our natural perform. We don't feel that sense of shame about behavior. We may not feel that sense of shame about the attitudes that were working through and the world and I'm not saying that shame is a bad thing and in fact we need more shame today. That's one of the the the huge issues that we have in our society. There's no shane you know so you can have a child a teenage child could say hey. I want to chop off my genitals and pretend that I'm something else. And which would you say oh okay okay all right cool. You know there's not supposed to be any reaction to anything <hes> we can have a movement that now seeks to legalize pedophilia. You know that's supposed to be okay because everyone should be able to express themselves without being chained. We can see people balloon themselves up to become morbidly obese and we're not supposed to say anything because we're not supposed to shame immuno that were James got so confused <hes> in recent years in and it's been misapplied in so many horrible ways the things that we really should be ashamed about that. Chain doesn't exist. You know the fact like that so many a walking around without families you know so many are creating children haphazardly with no sort of plan whatsoever you know note no sort of <hes> roadmap or stratagem whatsoever. All of that is okay. You know we're supposed to accept that you know and it should be no no shame and right but if <hes> someone decides to completely disrespect to sexuality without really understanding the behavior that they're doing that's holding them back from actual authentic and healthy sexual expression. If we speak to that then now we're told that we're slut shaming fat that changing you know all the different ones that they come up with and it's really just created a terrible environment. <hes> we're judgment is a part of that shaming claiming you know and judgment is normal just like as you're listening to this broadcast right. Now you are making a judgment as to if it's valuable to your life or not now. Have you say chief. That was great broadcast. Ask that's a judgment if you say chief. That was a bad broadcast a SA- judgment either way so why would I accept one judgment over the other. Why would I accept that was great you over that was bad? The reality is I don't. I'm not really looking for either one. You know I'm just exposing the Naked Truth and leaving it there and I judge it for myself and I determine if it was good or bad and I'm okay with that you see so that's a part art of removing the pretenses that's a part of <hes> really looking at and revealing the attitudes and behaviors and and that we may do in the mindset behind it so is being in front of your shrine nine doing rituals naked. Is that wrong no it's not all right and <hes> it's coming into a shrine with your own culture wrong not necessarily surly but you have to be open to the rearrangement in evolving of set culture. That's where the problem comes in right so for instance with the CERIGA podcast in the recent channel channel. I've already gotten you know some requests because you do show on this because you do a show on because you do a show on that and most of the time the request that I get in I mean sometimes I saw okay. That's a good idea but if it's if it's something has low vibration I'm not you know I don't don't even bother with it. You know and a lot of times it's people want wanting all of this personal gain very rarely get request of high vibration and not that I'm looking for him so don't feel like you've got to type something up now and send it to me. You know I'm just I'm just making observation. I don't feel any way at all about it. <hes> just again make noting an observation <hes> but a Lotta Times with people are requesting in hoping in looking for boys old technology you know Dave locked himself into a way of doing things in a way of being you know no different than someone who stuck in an error and just can't stop wearing certain clothes from certain Arab era because that's the era that they relate to the most. It's no different than in this. He knows the sometimes I get people who who come forth and they like all. Can you do a show on this. Can you do a show on that and it's just <hes> stuff that we don't need anymore had someone when recently asked me to do a segment breaking down Christmas not doing that. I mean his probably like probably about five thousand videos on the Internet right now showing you that this this. Individuals who people like to call the Christ was not born on December twenty. It was not humanly born on December twenty fifth <hes> the breakdown I did on Easter. That's on the Internet. That's on Youtube right has been on Youtube for. Maybe almost maybe ten years is now you know <hes> that breakdown touches on Christmas and across the vacation of the sun and so forth you know with people are stuck in an old lessons and old technology energy breakdown Christmas break this down and break this movie down and break this break that outbreak that no no no no. Let's let's evolve to something more so it's the same thing when you coming into the temple and understanding the temple. I know a lot of times we think temples or for ritual ization but the truth is a temple was is a school you temple is actually learning <hes>. Just you know technically have you wanna rich allies in the temple. That's that's fine too but typically <hes> AH temple as we go to learn law statutes metaphysics call so forth and so okay so when you coming into that environment and you're unable an able to shift and evolve that organism known as culture that's when you will run into some serious issues they say and again I've seen people enshrines do that before run into serious issues I I remember one time going into a shrine <hes> many years ago when I had my hair locked up and I had a lot of here and I used to always wear covered in remember going into a shrine in you know at that time that the head of that shrine saying Oh oh you need to remove your hat and I suppose it's not a hat as a crown and you know he was just like you gotTa take that off. You know that's what we do when we come up here because that was his idea of decency and respect aspect. I took it off. You know I said Okay you know I took took it off putting them in my back pocket even though the wearing of of crown and keeping my head covered and keeping my hair covered you know in more significantly he was a key part of my culture was a key part of the protection that I use to keep certain things in the elements off of my my receptors but nonetheless I was willing to break myself if you will bill. I was willing to strip myself down before culture because it's something that exists before culture. There's a natural being that exists before culture before you choose a culture so I was willing to go back to that Matt that natural being and make myself so vulnerable to the change you see whether it was a positive change or whether it wasn't a negative train change but I was willing to strip myself down to that childlike innocence space and it's something as simple as you know me saying Oh we're not this. Yes I keep on him saying take it off. Okay no problem. I'll do that you see so a Lotta Times. I see that people have trouble with those type of experiences within the shrine you know because they're stuck on and you're not supposed to do that or you're not supposed to do that. I may even get some of that in the comments on this video on the comments on on the I tunes <hes> channel for this podcast you know if you look at <hes> the CERITA channel you'll see a lot of stuff our break something down it goes completely over people's heads and in all they have to give you as dogma you know well no this one is supposed to use this color and he's supposed to use this Kennel supposed to posters posters poster who told you supposed to is to tradition and I always say when did the tradition begin what year what year we calling tradition that it like two hundred years ago five hundred years ago thousand years ago five thousand years ago ten years ago five years ago this joining now when is the actual tradition and and at what point do we lock in and say this who is the best moment in the best time of the tradition. We were doing everything right. When is that you see some of the religious dogma that tends to creep in to our ritual ising you know and that's a part of the stripping of the clothes because it is a spiritual connotation there and that you're you're expressing in allowing for the beauty of what you already come with like? I said I already come with the one I have that already. There's a reason that the wand is black when you look could petitions to Wanda's blackened and the tip of it is white you know that's the expression that's the ejaculation as the expression of the creative potential I can already do that. I got that I'm good to go right but I'm supposed hosted deny that I'm supposed to cover that up deny that and then look for some other type of <hes> material focal point when I've already been crafted and shaped artfully and a divine way in been given that fortune of all of the spiritual tools that I need like said so many times we are the moving in walking shrine before you put the food on your shrine. Make sure you're putting the good food in tide of your temple. which is your body your place?

Africa Matt Africa Youtube Wicha leising Ar eagles Pataki D._C baird Gilly Wanda Tony Narrow Ed Ashley James Iraq
912: When is the Best Time to Retire? by David Warren with MoneyMiniBlog on Diversified Portfolio for Early Retirement

Optimal Finance Daily

09:11 min | 1 year ago

912: When is the Best Time to Retire? by David Warren with MoneyMiniBlog on Diversified Portfolio for Early Retirement

"This is optimal finance daily episode nine twelve when is the best time to retire by david warren with money mini blog dot com and i am dan. I'm your host here each weekday reading to you from some of the best personal finance blogs on the planet and if you've got ideas for us we love to hear those <hes>. Please please share your topic request ideas at old podcast dot com. That's o. l. d. podcast dot com and before we get to it i wanna thank fund. Rise is for their support fund rise enables you to instantly access high quality high potential private market real estate projects from high rises in d._c. To multifamily emily apartments in l. a. and each real estate project is carefully vetted and actively managed by fundraisers team of realistic prose. Fundraise is the future of real estate investing so visit fund rise dot com slash o. f. d. that's f. u. N. d. r. i s. e. Dot com slash o f t to have your first first three months of fees waived for now. Let's get right to the post as we start optimizing your life. When is the best time to retire by david warren of money many blog dot com many people dream of retiring early at fifty and spending ending their lives living the dream traveling charity work more time for family and hobbies. Those are just a few things on their list of things that they longed for in retirement. The reality is that more people than ever before can't afford retirement. The average retirement age in the united states is sixty three experts state. The age of retirement is rising in both in the u._s. and around the world. The main reason is the cost of living longer experts state ari capitaine and economics professor in an interview with radio station w. w._s._b. You are in boston said quote definitely every country in the developed world and the reason is the same as in the u._s. People are getting healthier. They live longer therefore therefore they need to be supported for a longer period and at some point that just becomes unsustainable and quote the fact is most people don't have enough retirement savings a government accountability office study in twenty fifteen found americans between fifty five sixty four have on average saved one hundred and four thousand dollars for retirement that only amounts to three hundred ten dollars a month for those who invested in a lifetime annuity. You also must consider the cost of living longer. There are more doctors appointments more more ambulance calls more tests more prescription drugs and possibly in home nursing care physical therapy occupational therapy memory care and long-term care <hes> that can all play a role in you maintaining your health. How much should you save. It really depends on your age. Those in their thirties should have a retirement savings things equivalent to a year's salary while fortysomethings should have three times their annual salary saved. Those in their fifties need four times their annual salary saved while well those turning sixty should have saved six times their annual salary. What else can you do. Saving is only one aspect of preparing for retirement. Saving being alone isn't going to ensure that you have all you need to live on for the rest of your life. You're money needs to grow during decades while you are working and continue to make money after you retire. You need to invest investment. Experts will all tell you two things you need a diversified investment portfolio and the older you are the more conservative -servative your investments should be the exact percentages of stocks to conservative investments have changed in recent years. The old formula was to subtract your age from one hundred and and the answer is the percentage of stocks should own now with people living longer and sometimes passed a hundred the new formula uses either one hundred ten or one hundred twenty as the starting guarding number most investment advisers tell clients to be really aggressive in your stock investments in your twenties and thirties and start to move money into safer investments beginning in your forties by the time you retire less than twenty percent should be in stocks or other aggressive investments what other investments are there. There are many more ways to invest other than stocks stocks all carry a certain amount of risk and all have their advantages and disadvantages the first step to widen your investment options. He's to have a self directed i._r._a. This option allows you to include a variety of investments not found in a typical i._r._a. Such as real estate precious metals and cryptocurrencies choosing this option means you. You'll need to do research to find the best investments for you rather than depending solely on the broker for example. If you're interested in adding precious metals to your retirement account make this short check the ratings of gold i._r._a. Companies to learn how they compare amongst the rest of the pack additionally it's important to read customer reviews to find out more about their experience reince and if the company is a right fit for you what should be a diversified portfolio. A diversified portfolio is a must because it helps protect you against investment vestment losses a diversified retirement portfolio can include stocks mutual funds treasury securities real estate precious metals and crypto currency's one stocks some of the best stock investments are in industries. You already work in or know something about having knowledge of an industry industry can help you pick stocks that others may not be aware of yet blue chip companies are safe investments and are likely to withstand the changing financial tides of the future to mutual funds mutual funds are a collection of stock securities that are pulled together and managed by a professional it collects money from various investors to buy the securities ace the category can include money market funds stock funds bond funds or hybrid funds three treasury securities the u._s. government government backs treasury securities. It basically allows the government to use your money to finance government spending with you being repaid at a higher rate of return. They are among some of the safest investments but they also don't pay much interest. They are liquid assets and at the very least they don't lose value. Treasury bills can mature in as little as four for weeks while treasury notes take to ten years to mature treasury. Bonds are a long range investment maturing in twenty to thirty years. There has also treasury inflation lesion protected securities or tips where interest is accumulated according to inflation rates they mature in five ten and thirty years for real estate real estate is also considered a safe investment buying a home is the best real estate investment because you can enjoy it as it builds equity some have found steady heady income in rental property both residential and commercial but that comes with the added responsibility of finding good renters collecting rent and maintaining the property five five precious metals precious metals like gold and silver are considered great long term investments values rise well over twenty years but can rise and fall in the short term even so precious metals don't lose value below what you initially paid for them as long as you keep them for several years six crypto currencies bitcoin is the newest form of investing people are looking at bitcoin because it has dramatically risen in value in the past seven years however financial experts are not convinced it is a stable investment and they predict the crypto currency bubble will eventually collapse crypto currency experts disagree. Stating bitcoin will rise to twenty thousand dollars. There's a coin final words. Preparing for retirement is a highly personal matter a lot of the plans you make today depend on how you want to live in retirement retirement looking at all your options will give you the answers. You need to make the right decisions. You just just listen to the post titled. When is the best time to retire by david warren with money mini blog dot com and thank you again to fund rise for their support. Come mbai fund rise dot com slash f._d. To have your first three months free private market real estate has historically provided excellent ongoing cash flow even even as it supports long-term growth private market assets like these are a strategy for diversifying beyond public mark investments and even other kinds of real estate like publicly likley treated rates and fundraise is the future of real estate investing the platforms innovations power and investor. I model by eliminating the bloated costs it's and middlemen that have traditionally weighed down real estate investing saving investors time and money. That's why it's frequently mentioned as a recommended tool in the blogs that i narrate right right here unparalleled transparency and real time reporting let you see how the development of specific properties impact your overall portfolio check it out visit fund rise dot com slash oh f._d. That's f. u. N. d. r. i s. e. Dot com slash o f t to have your first three months of fees waived and that's it for today hope you enjoyed our post from david warren. Thanks so much for listening all the way through and have a great rest of your day. I'm gonna see you right back here tomorrow where your optimal life awaits.

david warren f. u. N. d. united states treasury o. l. d._c ari capitaine boston fortysomethings professor three months
152: The Flipside of Leadership  Intelligent Disobedience with Ira Chaleff on the TalentGrow Show with Halelly Azulay

The TalentGrow Show

40:11 min | 1 year ago

152: The Flipside of Leadership Intelligent Disobedience with Ira Chaleff on the TalentGrow Show with Halelly Azulay

"Hey talent growers a quick note from elliot's why here your leadership development strategy that talent grow and grow show is taking a short break for vacation in august and we'll be back in september with grand new content for you but we are rebroadcasting some of our favorite earlier episodes that perhaps perhaps you didn't listen to yet or perhaps you want to release into now that it's been awhile i show some of my famous for you and every week you're still going to have content shared matthew via these reruns so i hope you enjoy them and welcome to the talent. Grow show where you can get actionable results oriented insight and advice on how to take your leadership communication and people skills sales to the next level and become the kind of leader people want to follow and now your host and leadership development strategist elali azoulay paint air. Welcome welcome back to the talent road show this lilies lie your leadership development strategists with another episode. This one is just so fascinating <music>. I'm telling you it just blew my mind the first time when i listened to the interview as i was conducting it and remind again just now when i prepared to record this customized intro. I think that you're going to really enjoy listening to talk about the idea that everyone is a leader but also every one of us is a follower and both as leader and follower. We have the responsibility to be courageous follows follows and sometimes we have the responsibility to disobey what he calls intelligent disobedience in so talk about what exactly that is what are some of the downfalls of leadership and followership what what keeps ceos up at night the passively dangerous situations that can occur as a result of power and authority and how we as has employees as leaders and as members of society as parents as children as members of families can can begin to make a difference by thinking about this by asking more questions and by taking the courage to sometimes intelligently disobey. I hope that you enjoy this episode. As much as i did and i really would love to hear your insights and input in the comments after you awesome welcome back to the town grow show. I'm halley july year leadership development strategist and my guest today is iraq. He is an author speaker her workshop presenter and an innovative thinker who studies the beneficial use of power between those who are leading in those who are following. He has is a really unique perspective about leadership. I think and i'm really looking forward to have him share his knowledge with you. I met ira <hes> a few years back actually because we in the d._c. Area we seem to hang out in very similar networks and a lot of people in common and and i've seen i._r._s. Speak he also spoke at one of the programs that i guided or network chapter in d._c. Area area and so i know that he is a very smart and thoughtful man. I really really am glad that he agreed to be on the podcast ira welcome. Thanks so much good to be back in touch with you tastic so ira one question that i asked every person that i interview is for you to give us a little bit of a snapshot of the journeys that you've taken over your career but in a very short time in a short description russian which of course is always a challenge for someone with an illustrious career like yours because everybody has such a different path and i find it really fascinating fascinating to see where you've been and how you got to where you are today which my journey began at a very young age you know <hes> you introduce. It's me as being very thoughtful about the subject of using our beneficially well. I grew up in a multi generational household cold where my maternal grandmother lost her entire family in the holocaust and very early age this was imprinted on that a terrible crime had been committed and as i grew older the question emerged well why did people follow hello such a murderous destructive leader and this really became the organizing thread for a lot of my inquiry in life life and a lot of my efforts to make a difference so it took different forms in the in the sixties. I was was involved in the civil rights movement. How did you create better justice in a society where the laws and the culture her were not fully just in the seventies. I went more into the human potential movement and found there some you know great ways ways of expanding awareness but also <hes> could see how power could be distorted and abuse in those circles in the eighties. I came aim to washington d._c. I was always fascinated with political power. I found a niche in washington in which i was able to work with congressional offices on both sides of the aisle and got to see how staff in their twenties and thirties work with the member who who was often in his or her forties fifties or sixties. How did they build relationships in which they could have influence <hes>. How did they do this. Well when when they failed what what went wrong and that became one of the laboratories former work then expanded that out to an executive coaching coaching practice in the d._c. Area so of course <hes> largely focused on of mid level and senior federal agency managers and executives but also in the private sector. I was fortunate to really be able to <hes> spend a few years looking into many industries <hes> and seeing how business works how different cultures were and that led me to of right twenty years ago the book that courageous follower standing up to and for our leaders that creative tension and then this year <hes> the extension of that work is my new book intelligent disobedience doing right when what you're told to do is wrong. What an amazing journey on really you've been in a a lot of different contexts and i love to hear in how you describe it thread of that interest in in protecting people from the wrong use use of power. I guess i miss or abuse of power so thank you for the work that you do and and how fascinating i do you work with leaders and suddenly i also help people a lot of times figure out how to become more powerful when they don't actually have a foreign power and so i'm certainly very interested in this concept of both being powerful or being a leader and i believe that everybody is a the leader even when they don't have an official role or or sort of an ordained authority power and i noticed that in indefinitely in your work you're you're focused on the flipside of leadership and the idea that in order for there to be successful leaderships there needs to be successful astle followership and i love the concept of courageous followership which i think that you probably if not invented than at least you are in mind the person speaking about it in writing about it so now that you are in thinking about what more deeply about this idea of followership your your newest bra intelligent disobedience actually instead of teaches people how to you become good. Followers <unk> says to them sometimes. You don't follow right because if there is some kind of guidance you're getting from leadership. Can you believe is wrong. How you describe intelligent. You know in your book stay. Intelligent disobedience is about finding the healthy balance for living in a system with rules authorities authorities while maintaining your own responsibility for the actions we take so i want to hear a little more from you about the background for this concept and and how you promote it and definitely a little bit about the comparison between the situation and what you described in the holocaust cost on how you refer to standing milgram experiments in yelling the nineteen sixties where listeners may have heard about these quite famous miss where people were told to give electric shocks to these innocent subjects and they could tell that the subjects were wailing and crying in pain and because has the experimental power of already told them they have to keep doing it. Two thirds of the people kept doing it so is that what got you to the focus on this this idea of intelligence obedience or they're a couple of other example well so first of all tying that to the holocaust the after the holocaust were the famous nuremberg trials of the primary war criminals but also the lesser war criminals the accountants the physicians the guards tetra and a clear principle was established that one could would not <hes> excuse one's behavior by saying. I was simply following orders. If you have any opportunity all to not follow all of the order you are accountable for what the choice you make is so that's that's primary here. Now you also talk about that. We are all leaders <hes> or can be leaders which is true and the balance of that is we are all also so what time's followers and that's true all the way up and down the organizational chart <hes> the c._e._o. Still has to follow the guidance from the board and the secretary of defense needs to be a leader but if he's not a follower are of the president the commander in chief we have a constitutional crisis so following occurs at every level <hes> there is a school of thought that one of the ways we learn to be leaders is to <hes> develop as courageous followers leadership requires courage and to the degree we we can display that courage when we are in the follower role <hes> that prepares us for courage in the leader role now i didn't actually actually come to this <hes> line of thought through the milgram experiments directly though i've been fascinated with them for years and i'll say more about about that at the moment but i was teaching a class on <hes> leader follower dynamics and talking about authority and how most of the time it makes makes sense to follow authority but sometimes it doesn't sometimes it's actually dangerous and a woman in the class raised her hand and said i have an exemple under the table well that got my interest what you mean under the table. She had a really she had a dog under the table and she explained that she was training this dog to be a guide dog for to support a blind person and the first year year and a half of the dog's life would be spent with her learning to be socialized to be able to sit under the table for an hour and a half and also to learn learn all the commands it would need to know and she said but then it needs to go to a higher level trainers to teach it intelligent disobedience and i never ever heard the term i said what is that with the terminal bart in guide dog training where the dog must know that if <hes> it gets a command for example cross into the street when a quiet hybrid cars coming around the corner it must not disobey it must be able to resist resist being even if the command is repeated and if the situation calls straight it must help the the human find a safer way to to get to the goal and i just loved that metaphor and then the new book i use it as a way of thinking about how do we find that right balance <hes> between <hes> supporting <hes> the rules of the game <hes> complying with authority and not a baying when doing doing so would be the wrong thing would would cause harm when an amazing story and such a i agree greece such an interesting metaphor. I actually had no idea that that's how guide dogs are trained but it makes so much sense so wow that's really tough. We're putting i guess we're putting tons of trust back into every individual followers. What's what's the word fan looking for every individual's colorado judgment right which is good most humans have good judgment and are smart enough to know. What's right from wrong that we we have to do that. <hes> for example you know i have c._e._o.'s who tell me what keeps them up at night is that there are people won't be candid with them. If they're about to make a serious mistake <hes> because you know you have so much power when positional power when you get <hes> to those high levels of an organization and people's behavior tends to change your around you and they're sort of cultural programming on <hes> how am i supposed to behave and the face of this authority gets in the way of candidate professional communication and that is a dangerous situation -tuation and good executives know that and they try their best to break down those walls between the different levels of the hierarchy or the different class structure that may exist in some organizations and cultures so do you think how do we get there. What what do you think is at the root of people being so afraid to resist wrong wrong guidance or wrong. Long commands from leadership is because they're punished for usually well. It's a great question and we really can pick a little bit of a deep dive. There are if you step back and think about society society is a very complex and we need to <hes> train rain are young into understanding the rules of the particular society which they grow up in and who they are expected to listen into and to obey and how they're expected to speak you know what level of differential nece etcetera <hes> <hes> and if we don't <hes> in any culture if the if the young don't absorb this and learn and they have a really hard time they get kicked out again to garden yeah <hes> you know with all the consequences in our culture <hes> that that <hes> hold so we have a positive as so often is the case. We have a positive function at the root of this at the root of obedience now. Where does it go wrong. Well it goes wrong in that these these these rules get so internalized that we forget that we're even operating by them and then we bring them into situations where we should not. They don't own apply. They'd be dangerous so for example hospital surgery rooms. It used to be that the surgeon was next to god and and everybody else did what the surgeon said well. It was observed that there were far too many surgical errors you know a long limbs being being <hes> in the worst case you know <hes> cut off but you know many many other minor and avoidable problems and daft. Have you know that could be avoided so contemporary. A best practice in hospitals now is that the we started surgery every single a person in that room from the lowest person on up has to verbally say they agreed to. It's okay to start surgery so if the if a nurse says well you do we have the right size knee replacement before we open the person up up. You know people checking. Oh my we don't and they just saved you know a problem in costs and potential infection and sceptre similarly the surgeon is not allowed under best practice to end the surgery and until everyone gives their assent and if that nurse says i counted thirteen sponges in we only took twelve out surgeon stop surgery until he or she looks for that their team response so we're getting better at this but we need to get a lot better at this. We need to understand that because of the socialization people need <music> some extra most of us you know some of us are naturally good at it. We all like to think we're good at it but the research that you cited or milligram shows that any any of us can can fail this test on the <hes> you know the right. Circumstances are the wrong circumstances so we need to actually pay attention in our our education system in professional development in helping people understand that they actually have not just a right but an obligation nation to speak up when they see something's wrong and not just not just obey because they happen to be in the subordinates position on so so fascinating <unk> what i'm hearing in and i know that you care a lot about not just figuring out how to teach years that are already in in leadership physicians in politics or in industry right to think about starting kids and you know as as as children learn how to it'll be members of society. The main teachers to them are their parents and force their educators so i definitely definitely can see that you're trying to make a difference by not only focusing on teaching good leadership and followership when it's when you're adults but starting early and i and i would love for you do to talk more about that that i also because so many of the listeners are all of their parents and they can learn from you about ways to prevent this going forward. What can they do in their job where where many of them are probably in the leadership sandwich as you describe. Were all if you are an authority leader. You're also follower. Regardless us so if you're kind of trying to be a good leader to the people that follow you and a courageous follower to the people who read you what are some of the ways that you can can make an impact or start to peck at this problem and make a difference from where you are but i guess i asked you to question. You can choose how that's fine and i'll take them both up. I actually when i started writing an intelligent disobedience. I didn't know that i was going to take this deep. Dive live in to the education system and parenting really so. I decided that i needed to treat my readers as whole people knock just as you know <hes> executives or worker bees or or whatever you know most of them are also part of a family system or we'll be part of a family system and or certainly are you know extended family system if not their nuclear families and that this this was really something that i think we need to develop holistically so one of my goals for this book is that if people hear hear about it or pick it up because of their professional development that they also say wow but this also does apply in my personal life particularly in the life of the young people that i'm involved with and i hope that parents and educators will have discussion in groups reading groups and start tackling this <hes> this <hes> topic <hes> of you know appropriate obedience and an intelligent disobedience <hes> because it's very important developmentally particularly you know in a culture where we pride ourselves on being free and responsible citizens we need to be able to know when not to obey so let so with that in mind your listeners <hes> are almost all also engaged in economic activity and you know most of us don't don't have vast amounts of wealth that we can fall back on if we suddenly lose their jobs so there is a <hes> fear factor her that can get in the way of our natural desire to be candid professional. We really need to step back and assess that to some degree. This goes to rain wiring <hes> when when <hes> something triggers fear you know we now know that the primitive limbic system tends to flood us and we can go into the fight flight freeze a symptom and that is something we need to be aware rob and learn how to manage and overcome because most of the time we are not going to die if we take a principled stance dance and in fact sometimes that's the stance that will help our career if we actually do help someone in the former leader role understand understand the risks that they were missing in the order that they gave and we help save them and the organization from a serious. I missed up our we social capital and value as a part of this organization goes up so there's not just a a downside risk to <hes> taking a courageous and principled stance up because of that inherent quality. That leadership needs those those characteristics. There's an upside potential as well we don't do we don't take these stance is a manipulative to dance our career sure but i think it's important to understand when we think it might hurt her career that <hes> that ain't necessarily so really good point so that's it's kind of like i keep reflecting back to my childhood into my kids. You know i think that in my family there's a really strong value for being independent thinker her and that influenced a lot of the decisions that i've made or a knife felt free to me you know to think for myself and to resist resist doing things that i didn't agree with even though i was told to do them and i'm sure that it has led me down this path of entrepreneurship because many of my earlier experiences within corporate america you know i felt like i saw things that <unk> unethical or just totally inappropriate and i try to speak up to the best that i could but at some point i needed to make a decision. About whether do i just put my head down and just keep following. What i know is wrong because they won't change it or i wasn't successful in influencing the powers that be or do. I need to go somewhere else so that i am not forced to do what i don't. What i really believe is what i made several of those decisions and i notice in my children i believe that they've been raised by two very independent thinking parents and that kind of come back to haunt us sometimes when they're not good little soldiers at school and they use whatever limited reasoning and background yeah they have to sometimes question authority in its right back it comes back and it's tough because i want to raise at them with a value but it makes everything a little bit more difficult. I appreciate that you've just described that upside. You know everybody's so so afraid and and i think that many people are risk averse and a lot of their decisions are made out of fear instead of out of courage as a leader. How do you make sure that you're leading courageous followers. What can you do. He was a leader in an organization to to help nip this problem in the by well. It's very important questions. All managers and people informal leadership roles like to think that they create an environment in which people will be candid did with them and will push back with creative ideas et cetera unfortunately offer two reasons that isn't always true one is as we discussed each of us come with our own family of origin and early childhood upbringing you know different cultures that we come from ethnic snick cultures with different rules values of the cave here on gender gender issues as well. You know that enter in here here and so we so even though we like we as the manager might think we're creating a very safe environment. It doesn't necessarily translate that way to the people were working with so we have to work harder than we think we we might in order to genuinely get people to feel we you really mean it. We really want them to speak up and we'll do that. The second piece is that <hes> unfortunately you know we all have blind spots and we don't <hes> we're not always aware of the kind of <hes> mike grew messages that we send out that discourage candid candid feedback and input so <hes> i in the courageous follower over successive additions it's now in its third addition added about at a chapter on the courage to listen to followers and so <hes> it really walks leaders through a lot of the hidden pitfalls and ways that they can proactively create the culture that will genuinely genuinely support that kind of candor. It's not easy as we know you know. Trust can be easily lost. You know inadvertent missteps missteps so this requires some thought some reading some practice some coaching eve- even in order to do it well. How can you share. Maybe one or two of those sure so. Here's a classic one wonderful c._e._o. Of a <hes> very vibrant and company came back from a three day retreat with her sixth top senior executives and <hes> there was a meeting with her <hes>. I said it was about fifty or sixty mid level managers and before we start the meeting she said i remind if i have a few minutes just brief <hes> the management team on what transpired in our three-day retreat and i said of course not <hes> and <hes> so she he went and she started to sell the ideas that they had come up with an how they were going to change this and that's the other thing on the product line and the target customer base and and and after about ten or twelve minutes of this passionate sewing idea chef it doesn't even have any problem with that you create an environment unintentionally where it would look you would be such a you know damp <hes> mob mop on on her susie as nobody that speak up it took me two hours you know with very carefully designed group process to undo that now imagine the difference if she didn't stead come in and said you know we have wonderful retreat here. Were the you know four. He ideas hi dear that emerged from this that were giving serious consideration to before we do that. We really need your input to see. Are we missing anything. We have blind spots. Spots are there you know ramifications in the system that we haven't thought about and you know just listen to the difference there how people for be willing to put in their candid viewpoint and then the c._e._o. In her senior team could make really good decisions great example hampel. Thank you for sharing that. I think that that really helps clarify what you mean and i. I hope that people go and read your books because i do know that they they are full of very actionable ideas. It's not just theory and one of the things that i'm going to ask you is to as always ask ask. My guess is to have one specific actionable tip that people can take away but before we get to that. I do want to ask you what is new for you. What's exciting and on the horizon written this book. I know that you've been actively <hes> speaking about it doing interviews news in and sharing the content and the book was people. What's what's next well. It's funny hilali yeah. It's interesting. How many people say well what's the next book you're gonna aren't some version of that and it. I have to explain. I don't write books in order. The right book i have found myself a steward of certain ideas in the world and my my role and my passion asham is to be a good steward of good kind of <hes> relayer of those ideas so that <hes> in in current way of thinking the mean <hes> that the idea represents <hes> takes root in the cultural soil and and can survive beyond my being there to talk about it. I've been very very blessed that on the subject of followership and courageous followership that has happened to a very significant degree and i now see my role for the next frankly you know five to ten in years of champing meaning of this idea of intelligent disobedience which almost nobody has heard of and as soon as they <hes> get get you know the metaphor of the guide dog they get it and now they're really interested and so my work certainly for the next two or three years at least is going to be finding creative ways to get <hes> these concepts these skills these tools <hes> <hes> into the culture so that they take on their own their own life and then i can pass the baton on to whomever is coming next as i've been able to do with a great deal satisfaction on the subject of followership i love it so so visionary and transformation formation also thank you for the work that you do. I certainly appreciate it very much so let's get to that tip. What do you think is something that people who are listening right right now knowing that they're both leaders and followers and parents were children are are teachers educators there somewhere in this knicks what is something they can do immediately today this week that you think is going to begin transforming them or the people that follow them or the people that lead them more towards records this division. You created well. I think that just spam all of those groups and developmental stages. I have to say a <hes> paying more attention to the inner voice. People have different concepts of what that voice is. Where does it come from <hes> but but that voice is some how usually an expression of core values <hes> and sometimes court spiritual spiritual values of <hes> what is the right way to be in the world. What is the right way to both <hes> become who we we were <hes> potentially <hes> are potentially capable of becoming but also the groups in the society that we're part of how how do we best help others become <hes> who they can become in terms of the aspirational values that most of us hold hold so listening to that inner voice <hes> giving equal weight to the voice of authority would an understanding with humility humility. It doesn't mean that we're right that are in the voices right. It is important and we we you. You know we hear ourselves. <hes> thinking that something on needs to be expressed that something is being said or done. That's not right that someone i wanna being mistreated we at least raise our voice and put that <hes> voice into the room be willing to hear and listen and that others may have of viewpoints that help raise us up and and expand our view of what's happening and we can change our view view but not discounting our view because of our age our gender our <hes> placing in the hierarchy arche honoring <hes> our our contribution potential contribution to whatever it is. We're engaged in. It's so inspiring in. I i am in all of it and i hope that people do listen to you ira. How can mm people stay in touch and learn more about your work. I will include links in the show notes to your books into your website and to your social media i if you wish <hes> what's the best way for people to to learn more and keep in touch well. I would encourage going to my new website which his intelligent disobedience dot net dot net is important where they can go to irish calif dot com. They both feed into the same site. I'm i'm putting up <hes> a number of interviews videos articles that i think can help people to further yet imbued with some of these. He's ideas play with them and see what will work for them. I would i hope is that <hes> listeners take this conversation back into their own world. You know perhaps they're motivated to get hold of the book have discussion groups and come back to me with what you've learned because ah this is a journey for all of us my my book does not begin to pretend to have the answers it really is asking the important questions news and giving some of the guidelines of what i've learned and that we can build on <hes> collectively towards his journey aac of using power beneficially and not letting power be used destructively amen. I love that ira- ira- taylor thank you so much for spending time on the talent grow show and sharing with me and with my listeners some of your very very inspirational work. I wish you continued success in everyone listening. I hope that you take that action. That iris suggested listen to your inner voice in go out continue asking these questions talking to others so that we can all become more courageous followers and intelligent disobey orders of the kind of leadership and what a great world. It'll be. Thank you thank you well. I certainly very inspired by that interview. I have that he were to i. I hope you will take the action. All of the different suggestions that ira shop made the interview and especially that last one listen to your inner voice. It may not be right but it is definitely just nothing to ignore. I hope all of us make more courageous decisions as followers in as has leaders and as always i would love to know what you saw when you would like to hear more about how can make this podcast experience even more more beneficial for you. This is something that you enjoy it. You think navy other people know what to share it. You can send it to them. In email you can post it to baseball host link then you can post pinterest. What are wherever it is that those people might not hanging out we can just one of the links on that site and make recommendations and for random people to find it through discovery three that is something that becomes even more possible when you leave a rating and review on i tunes. I created a little guide for how to do that. I have linked wouldn't didn't show notes along with links to ways to get after the ira to his books is website and everything else that we mentioned in the show so i hope you'll check it out. It's molly grow dot com forward slash podcast slash episodes fifteen and as always i appreciate you. I'm so glad that did you hear and i hope that you make it a great. Thanks for listening to the talent gross show where we help you develop your talent to become the kind of leader that people want to follow for more information visit talent grow dot com <music>.

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Recruiting Secrets For Teams (with Linzee Ciprani)

Scale The Podcast

29:48 min | 1 year ago

Recruiting Secrets For Teams (with Linzee Ciprani)

"The old hi everyone daniel ramsay here the c._e._o. Of my out and the host of scale the podcast this podcast is dedicated to having conversations to unlock the exact formula and strategies these multimillion and billion dollar companies use to scale their business. You can visit me on our website at scale the podcast dot com or listen to this podcast cast on itunes or google play. Hey everybody here at my desk and we have have a special yesterday as you know my outages hired and helped over five thousand real estate's grow and build revenue and save money and get some of their life back in what's cool about today. Is we get to interview. Somebody who has also helped thousands of people do just the same thing hire people so we've we've got lindsay any here and we're gonna talk about recruiting the secrets of recruiting lindsey. Thanks for joining today for having me. I'm so excited those so-called so you've had you've helped real estate teams are eighteen hundred people is that right is really starting to dive into other places to other than real estate so lots of people getting hired in all different industries and how did you get started in this world of helping people find town so it's a funny story because i i used to <hes> back probably six or seven years ago i had <hes> a good friend of mine asked me to run his team and it was in the real estate world and so i said all right <hes> let's see what that looks like real estate but i know business awesome so jumped in with him and we grew his team from sixty individuals and we used to help desk to do that for you guys but we went from sixty transactions do over two hundred a couple of years in <hes> you know we really put processes and procedures in place there <hes> once i did that <unk>. I obviously hired on there as well. <hes> when i laughed i i had just had my erstwhile than i thought out of south several in my own and do some maybe build a business for myself. Lots of people came into my life and wanted me to do the same thing that don with this gentleman so now instead of doing that created soprano consulting and <hes> thought that i would hire a drain a few people here and there when i wanted a two and i was building my real estate business on the side and so i figured that was the directions did he go and separating consulting just blew up. <hes> you know we really really we hired a couple of people beginning. They were rock stars and then all the processes and procedures that we put in place with them. <hes> triple l. dollars people's businesses so everybody started looking in wondering what what that was and that's how we built so that's it okay so what today's call is about the secrets of recruiting in you're gonna talk to us about your step by step process so if our audience wanted to do it themselves they get a little nugget or tip and if they are like thank you know what that's too much. They can give you a call actually just hired 'cause that's would. You've done eighteen hundred times so let's talk to like what what are the most important things to think about when you know you're transitioning from a small team trying to grow into a larger team yeah you know i think budget is obviously obviously got to be something that everybody's gotta look at right so <hes> knowing exactly where you know what your budget is in forecasting out what your production's actions can look like will allow you to figure out financially what you can do with that money so when you're scaling there are times when you may need to look at other solutions like virtual assistance alongside of somebody else <hes> who's in the office right some people can get away with all virtual assistants people do a lot of printing and and so i think really starting in your budget understanding. What's that looks like will then enable you to figure out what you can afford who you're going to be irish so we we we tend to tell people to do. That was a quick question. If i'm growing a team in i know i need help but i don't necessarily have a lot of revenue that add leads to what we call big mistake big mistake they hire somebody like a college grad or somebody with no experience experience because they fear they don't have enough revenue to afford somebody. Who's professional in <unk> been there like so. Let's talk through like win. When i'm looking at my budget deciding i need to hire more salespeople or maybe operations operations leader. How do i know i'm ready in your opinion yeah yeah so. I think you know it's in my opinion. You're gonna drive who you got in that might even be you for the time being but you're gonna drive that bersin until their breaking point right so we know that like a transaction in manager of sorts would would be able to do so so the best transaction managers would be able to do around thirty files are handled thirty files a month and if we know that than whoever we've gone added that eat we better get them as close as we can do backs and drive it until we bring more people and does that make sense so you know you want to be able to for for me. I want three to six months saved the salary that i'm thinking to us and so i can project knowing that <hes> and i think that's again. You're gonna the poor person in that seat. It might be you or somebody else that your grind in an ad for a few months as long as you have that conversation in everybody's aware of what's founding. I think we get allows you to set yourself up to have some savings before you bring this person in a love it three to six. Months is the number now. The next question is how do i know at at what level i'm gonna hire. Somebody comes to you and says look. I'm growing real estate team. I'm doing majority of sales. We haven't admitted the office who's next in. At what level should i be thinking about hiring like that's a do. I wanna hire somebody who's got ten. Years of experience can crush it or do when the newbie that can train like. How do you help you make that decision yeah so it depends on who you got right so if we got an admin already. Do we feel like that. Person is really growing management. Are they leaving at a high level. They may not believe in themselves yet but you know if you've got talent on your team. I believe <hes> i think you would say <hes> you know. Towns gonna push us and so if i got somebody is pushing me who feels like my boston is telling me what to do all the time <hes> which i have numerous of them my team if i have that than than i know that i've got a leader and i know that i can build underneath them so then i might be able to get away with a cheaper person. <hes> our goal is to always look for that problem solvers that one of the biggest things that we do in our company that i think thank really helps. I don't think you can be a real estate unless you're problem solving church and so if we know that and we know that we are looking that person we could find somebody right out of college if we can deem that they've got problem solving skills <unk> so again. It's who do you have on the bus already already and then it's trying to figure out who comes along side of that and if you don't have that leader than do you have the doer that needs the leader and can we find the leader that now directs the doer. That's in place already. That makes sense yet totally does but what i'm hearing and maybe i'm breaking this down. What gary is like. There's an operations leader and their sales sales leader in you kind of focus on making sure. Those two pieces are in place for if you're thinking about building a team is the focus. It's a one of those things where you have to figure out where we're talking about. A single agent who i'm gonna call the sales leader right now right it because they're doing all the things as the donor and when you got one admin and we're looking to hire a second admin than prison still going to be wearing the sales leader hats in the admins dill. Somebody muddy has to wear that leader in my opinion <hes> now i will. I will also say that for people that are listening when you hit anywhere from twenty twenty four to forty transactions. That's your first admin your secondhand. Income in forty eight to sixty might be able to push it a little bit earlier and then from from that point forward. That's when i believe that your buyer's agent comes in takes all the that offer you but really good adleman team two of them can can get you to eighteen sixty in even further before he bring another age may sense okay so let's fast forward. <hes> what i heard is problem-solving. Problem-solving is one of the biggest skill sets in the real estate space that you look or are you looking for that obama sales in the admit i am it is it is probably more important on the sales side and if you don't have somebody even problem solve through things. I don't know how they threw a transaction the they've gotta take no for an answer. Just keep trying to figure out how yes right in the mid. If somebody's really in a free you walk as a salesperson or a business owner they have to have that same mindset and if they don't it is just constant battle after constant battle <hes> and so so you actually used scenario questions when we interview with different scenarios that we bring to them so that we can see how they problems off through this and it's funny problem offers are like this is dumb. This is an easy question. You wouldn't believe how many people can't make their way through it. It's crazy <music>. Hey everybody daniel ramsay here and i wanna tell you about an extraordinary offer to take action and start scaling your business right now. You know i karadzic questions about how to grow your business generate more revenue and reduce expenses and the answer is simple. It's my out desk. Virtual assistance miami desk offers five star virtual assistant services to thousands of business professionals across the united states and making our clients over one hundred million in dollars and net revenue every year our customers absolutely love our virtual assistance and i wanna give you the opportunity to learn exactly exactly why simply text the word 'em o._d. Mod two three one nine nine six and we're going to give you a free double double my business strategy call where you work. One on one with one of our business grows specialists to design an action strategy for growth and kost savings in your business. We're going to give you over twenty growth and strategy guides a market force personality indicator and important important business checklist and hiring guides my out desk admins can help manage your office your sales. You're marketing pipeline and even help you lead generation a. and follow up and during this call your learn exactly how you can put them into your business right now so again techs 'em o._d. Into three one nine nine six and get a free double my business strategy call right now and learn how my out desk can transform transform your business to day okay so besides problem-solving. What are the other kind of attributes that you're you're looking for when you bring people on for for teams yes so. We're talking about a team right. It has to be a team player and <hes> you gotta to have somebody who genuinely wants to be a part of something bigger and wants to build something bigger doesn't necessarily you know the egos gotta a. b. away from that too right like they might not be building her name. They might be building. Somebody else's name like how do they feel about that. Is that okay <hes> and understanding together we go further in. That's what a team is all about right and so we're looking for that team player the one who really really digs in and loves being art of team. We're also looking for somebody who <hes> we want somebody to have foundries on their personal on life and their professional life but at the same time we don't <hes> such a hard day but you know if somebody really struggles with putting their foot <hes> ah phone down at night and they release struggle with you know not being an really lead caring about the business and we love those people right because that's looked small all businesses. It's if we don't have anything but don't have customers in so we've got to be one hundred percent all about them loving on them making sure that they they're only customer and john <hes> but at the same time you know we find those people we love them but then we talk through okay now into put boundaries in place for you in like how do we help. You have a personal life to you. And what does that look like right because it's very easy to steamroll them. In neighboring out yeah makes sense. How do you <hes> my question is. How do you new tests for teamwork in appropriate boundaries 'cause what you're really thinking about like on the teamwork inappropriate boundaries of course i we've hired lots of people to at one of the challenges you a you know your your sales. Team is the best at selling when they're in their own interview talking about themselves. They're very very passionate about me. Look i'm talking about me like i'm a great salesman when it comes to me but then you get him into the floor in ham start selling your lightweight you don't. I don't know how to overcome objection. It's easy so how do you test guess. My question is how do you test in the interview for those two qualities like a team embraer and the no drama yeah you know. I think that that's that's the hard thing right and we're still. We're still doing scenarios. We're gonna throw things out with them. <hes> and we use right now used a coward personality assessment because it is. It's a fabulous assessment. It really allows us to look at somebody's personality right now. I love assessments. I know a lot of people that hire like censor crack but they're not it allows a deeper conversation around who they are quote unquote <hes> that you might not have been able to have just asking questions and so if an assessment says hey you're this way that you have to tell me if you're not or are you are and then. I'm going to dig deeper on those things right. I'm gonna ask will explain to me how you're that way or give me an example of how you are that way way and and i'm not just going to ask one right if there's something that i'm really driving. I'm asked numerous questions around it so tell me about how you are that way in your personal life in how how about your business life give me an example of when you did that. Give me an example of how you were that way and team building. You know somebody's really loves team you can. There's a lot of different things you could. This is the oddest give you an example of one that we use often <hes> with a you know somebody who's joining a team. You can easily look at an agent insane. Listen when you you get that check and it's half and you know you brought that relationship to the table and it was your person. How do you look at it. What does that feel like to you and if there's any like yeah i mean i love that or there's any little like that anything but yet at the team is taking half because they've done an entire admin admin staff. That's handling all these days like. There's the civic things we wanna hear them say because they it's already in get it to that makes sense while massive tip <unk>. I wish to be honest. I never even thought of asking. I wish i would've known that question back when i was hiring lots of salespeople or my real estate team bats question okay so that makes a lot of sense. I think you said something that's important to assessments are crap if you don't use them as a tool oh like at you if you say they're not a salesperson because their personality profile is x y and z so we're not going to interview. I don't find that as a good move but if you're like well the assessment their previous work history. Let's get him into an interview and see if you know this person is a fit will use the assessment of to ask a question <unk> assessment not as a screening tool. You know absolutely and you know. It's a funny thing. I don't of experiences but when we were hiring people often have like we'll send over evil that we feel really strongly about that. We will like ally in deir assessment is off in the world of what they should be looking for right but there're they're clearly talented and they're clearly person and you know they will write him off immediately now and we always say listen. First of all assessment should be twenty percent of what you used used in order to make a choice but second of all we put this person in front of you because we do this often. We ask hard questions and we know what we're looking for. We still dina the person to be a very good fit because of you know their background or whoever they are in the way they answered our questions. You know what's cool is you just alluded routed to my next question. <hes> i mean it's just perfect. Twenty percent is assessment one eighty. What is the other eighty percent yeah so <hes> twenty percent of that assessment. I think the forty percents at least is gonna be you know who are we hiring for. It's really the about them right like a big piece of what we do. I think that's why we kinda caller ourselves. A consulting company is because i need to know exactly who i'm sitting in front of right so like if i can talk to somebody for any minutes to forty minutes for the most part and everybody on my team we can pretty much say hey your disc is this isn't it or you know what are you in. A myers briggs <unk>. We could kind of and depending on who we're talking to. Most people taken essence essence <unk>. They can kind of talk about that but you know we know really quickly act like somebody who i'm going to call on there too right if i've got a d._c. On the phone <hes> which i i can just feel it. I know that they're talking any right as a sales person and so if i've got that prison that's actually a really special higher. I gotta get a special person and we asked them just as many questions on sales calls as we do our people that were interviewing right so it's a big piece about them and then the rest of that is it's really about how they answer questions and you know who they're showing up as in comparison to the assessment and the i were hired for so that's probably what i would say they are because that makes sense right yeah. Does it totally makes sense. What's interesting is i'm a d._c. Did you know bad you know. It's funny as you do this in so you come off as an eye which i would be there said that you will see which is is always my favorite will i. I always thought that you had i up there so you're just using as part of vienna d. i. Well well these can act as if you know so that there you go okay so we've got our mix of your hiring mechanism <hes> <hes> let's talk through what is the process to confirm. Somebody is a right higher meaning but say we interviewed the the boss. You found the right candidate they everything's going. What's the process to bring them on so that. It's a great on boarding. Eh you know i asked this question because we serve some of the largest teams across the country in it always floors me how they onboard lord somebody in what the process looks like because it's all over the board some sometimes it's amazing and i'm like wow that's great and then other times. It's like dude you. The you know put a do do one thing to make them feel special of their birthday or something. You know so talk to me about what you suggest that i decided to hire somebody. Here's what's what's next steps yeah so i mean for me <hes> having that plan and having it like fully in how how interesting so that everybody has it is really important than having all of the things that they need disposal to do the job they won which might sound crazy but like so many real estate agent. I love them but like every password for example. This is an easy one. Every single password is saved on their computer and literally the first day is like. I don't know the past and that's like their whole. I is totally sucked up by something dumb like that right. <hes> let you know we'd have all that stuff kind of broken out in and ready to go. Oh my it so our supreme consulting. That's a big piece. That's how we started as we started by consulting inputting processes and procedures of giving them the templates that i've built over the course of years being in the business so that they could be successful in those arenas and the in really having some strategies around that stuff so that when somebody comes in you know we give people three weeks for the hour by hour training schedules so that tailless and this may not go the way that you want it to and you might need to adjust but at least you look like you're organized. Let's try to use this and see how it goes right. It's as simple as like having projects that are already ready for this person to do and maybe having video that like you could send that percents here. Watch the video if the project every tiny downtime or i'm not able to be with you on the phone or whatever it is. I wanted to do your project right so we tell people have three or four projects of things. That are easy things that somebody can do that. Helps you get to the next level so the easiest would be like having a database that like you're cleaning cleaning up right like there's no reason why somebody can't start with a and call that person example. I get your birthday <unk> right address all right shirley all these things. I'm his newest <unk> in that the projects take you a while right. That's great. That's great yet have passwords before the person starts at. I'm gonna some repair work and give them projects. I love it. I love that well okay. What is it like to work with view like <hes>. I'm just gonna curious 'cause i'm. I feel like there's two really big values in what you do. Number one is find talent in. I love that world. You know like it's super fun. I feel like i'm i'm hunting awale every time hire somebody you know and then the other is is putting the on boarding and systems in place so those are the two massive values that you provide any business really <hes>. How does somebody move forward with with you. And what does that look like yeah so they doesn't call and or visit our website and <hes> you know if you just go there they can. They can lake to us obviously <hes> but really you know. We're going to interview them as well to make sure they're good for us because you know we take people on on that. We felt like our the end all be all the christ figure. That's gonna fix their business fix them. As a leader in all these things that <hes> is just not the case so so we we actually interview every person that wants to work with us and we wanna make sure we're a good fit for them and if it somebody who's open you know trusting trusting somebody else entrusting the process. It's a process right and where to go through that process together at some point. We're going to have something happen. That's going to be a problem and we're just didn't need to talk about it so you know as long as they are willing to go through the process and not not be somebody who look they're gonna dictate the process instead of us dictating the process and they're willing to kind of all along that we would love to be in visits to those people but yet they can visit our website to get more information than contacting us via facebook or online and and we can get that process started as if we are a good partnership so let's <hes> you had mentioned leadership as being kind of or saying i think it it's it's worth mentioning if i'm running a small team. I've got mad minute. Maybe one buyer's agent and then i'm being i wanna buy you know i wanna get a director of operations. I wanna get a director of sales. I wanna scale my business in growing up. The big challenge for us is always the mindset of the leader in that and you had mentioned. That's another issue so when you're screening somebody what are you. What are some of the qualities like how do you know as an agent that you're ready ready to scale a business yeah so you know one of the qualities leadership wise that we're looking for is somebody who still teachable but we want to know that they're still teachable because you know we may have a couple of things that we do. That might be different than you know what their coach says for example or somebody else but we've been doing this or allow nasa we believe i believe that we've got it the process you know not a lot of people where there's been success there so teach ability and in the ability to like you know kinda kinda look at us as a somebody. Who's doing this on a higher level in it. Maybe there's some trust there so like so for a long time. I felt like i was the only person that could would hire for somebody. That's gone through fifteen assistance in one year right that probably bigger problem than i'm going to be able to solve higher for them because they're gonna pass last week that assistant again but if they're willing to look at while okay what's going on. You know maybe they're not spending time with these people because they're outselling and they're just they're like you know hey. You should just read my mind to know what to do. That's just a communication issue right and so if we can consult with them and talk through the communication occasion issue maybe then we hire for them and so that's that's a big piece of what we do. Is you know trying to see some of where their faults aren't learn how to help them be better the next time around the organized with it but then you do there's an element of having to find that perfect person that can run along side of that person <hes> but there's you know they're purple unicorn out there for every person. I don't know i need identically purple uniform. Okay lindsay is thank you for your time today. What would you like to leave the audience with and if you wanted to kind of go deeper with lindsay and her team you you know definitely were in the shadows. We're going to the websites. You can kind of contact. Them was what what what should somebody consider when they're talking about rowing in hiring in the building a team. What's what's the one thing we're leaving with. I think the one thing is to follow a process. <hes> do not just hi jacket dotes. You know not just look at one resume have meeting and then hire you want to have three or four people that you feel pretty good about right and doesn't have to be perfect but the yield pretty good about so you can make that one best choice out of all of that you had had and if for some reason you don't have time for the process which most salespeople doubt or they don't have time to go through the process in that when you call people like you and i than we can take you through that process in in help you find the right person and for some reason we don't nail at that time. Let's do it again and now learned together so <hes>. That's what i leave there. You go follow follow the process lindsey. Thank you for your time today. You're awesome. I can't wait to see a. We're gonna be together in a couple of weeks. <hes> and what's the name. It's it's. It's going to be kind of cool. It's ops boss the retreat in we're going to be doing that in d._c. Right that's we are and you're launching a new podcast the leadership way the leader equation tells about the christie belt resident denied who it runs ops last coaching <hes> she lost a pack as weird word looking into this leadership thing that i'm talking about you <music> out who's the person that can come alongside me at take by business at run with it and you know i don't have to be everything to everybody is that administrative professionalism sales how's professional who is it and so we're just diving into that at a high level and interviewing people that have had somebody a number two that comes along his taking a ton of the business away from them <hes> allowing them to do what they're gifted in. That might be sales or whatever so yeah yeah were. That's it's an exciting thing also all right wendy. Thanks for your time. Thank you so much <music>.

d._c daniel ramsay lindsay google don boston business owner embraer united states obama gary deir facebook nasa
U.S. Makes Another Move To Shut Out Huawei

NPR's Business Story of the Day

03:48 min | 1 year ago

U.S. Makes Another Move To Shut Out Huawei

"Support for this n._p._r. Podcast and the following message come from better help online counseling by licensed professional counselors specializing in issues including depression stress. S. and anxiety visit better help dot com slash n._p._r. To learn more and get ten percent off your first month. Here's a question the tech industry wants the trump administration to consider. You're how much will american firms get hurt by u._s. Bans on chinese technology congress in the white house continued to cut american ties to chinese tech giant hallway today. A new band kicks in preventing the use a federal funds to buy equipment or services made by chinese companies including wally. Here's n._p._r.'s alina seljuk who is one of the largest smartphone makers in the world. It's now at the center of a web of laws and restrictions through which the u._s. has worked to freeze out chinese technology from the nation's networks. The idea long predates the trump administration but enforcement has escalated this year says james lewis researcher at the center for strategic and international studies. The government has is always distrusted walkway and now it's become much more public process. It's gone beyond the intelligence and law enforcement communities. Those communities have made the case that huawei and other chinese companies spy and steal american intellectual property both of which while we has denied the trump administration took the business world by surprise in may by banning american companies from selling technology to without government approval. The blacklisting was leverage in the ongoing ongoing trade war and it rattled major u._s. Companies including chipmakers intel qualcomm and micron but also google was android system has historically powered wates smartphones around the world. They're extremely popular in europe and obviously china. I think there's a difference between the way you hear people in d._c. Described china china and people in for example silicon valley described china best. George is a former defense department lawyer. Who's now the firm wilson senior goodrich and residing in d._c. He people use the word like national security threat or unfair trade practices and silicon valley. You hear the next largest market and futures. It's an opportunity. The tech companies of course will say they're just as concerned about security but they're also worried about losing their connection with a massive worldwide ride telecom giant for example in europe while way is one of the companies working alongside u._s. Chipmakers develop five jeep the new generation of wireless service yes in the u._s. While we has also been a major partner for smaller and rural telecom carriers offering them cheaper deals on equipment to provide cell phone service after a while we got blacklisted the commerce department gave us companies reprieve a grace period to keep working with alway on consumer oriented products that that reprieve expires next week and the commerce department has not signaled the plan to renew it lewis with a think-tank c._s._i._s. says companies are also still waiting for requests for permanent exemptions so i think there's fifty applications. None of them have been approved and it's been more than a month on friday soon. After china's said it would stop importing american agricultural goods reporters asked trump about hallway simpler not to do any business while i so we're not doing business while way on that same day while we unveiled an operating system of its own called harmony west. The company says that system would replace google's android on its phones if if it comes to that alina seljuk n._p._r. News support for this podcast and the following message come from. I'm the walton family foundation where opportunity takes root more information is available at walton family foundation dot org.

china partner alina seljuk europe alina seljuk n._p._r d._c google james lewis depression goodrich huawei commerce department walton family foundation wally walton family congress qualcomm
Interview: GoldLink Talks About His New Album And The Decentralized Future Of Music

All Songs Considered

20:33 min | 1 year ago

Interview: GoldLink Talks About His New Album And The Decentralized Future Of Music

"It's all songs considered from N._P._R.. Music Robin Hilton and on this episode of the program. We've got a conversation with the rapper gold link earlier this summer. He dropped his second full length album called Diaspora N._p._R.. Music Sydney Madden recently talked with him about the project the global reach of his music. How a sound evolved in much more gold link spoke to us from the BBC in London where he's been staying and Sydney was here at N._p._R.? Studios in Washington D._C.. Go Link is never satisfied with one sound Washington D._C.. Rapper created dedicated online community during his mix tape days by Weaving Together Gogo House R&B and boombats she soon money. Have you been his twenty sixteen single crew featuring shy Lizzie Brent Faez earned the rapper grammy nomination and it became a contemporary anthem for city now. He's going global break the whip out in his latest albums. I ask Bre blends together. Afro Be Jews you Boston Nova reggae and so much more. It's also great golding. Says is the decentralized future Music Luke joining me from the BBC in London Gold Link. Hello Hello. How are you doing congratulations on your album? Thank you appreciate him doing well. They last project twenty seventeen at what cost it was very tied to a sense of place that place being D._C.. See Now twenty nineteen you zoomed out and you hit that right off the bat with one of the album's lead singles Zulu screams. Let's hear a little bit of that. Russian the game show and addressing emmy number back around rounded back down around your back down aw Zulu screams it starts off with this chant <hes> that hits you over the head right away and then it goes into a Nimble Guitar Kinda like Nigerian instrumentalist King Sonya Day why start off with a chance because it was like a collective effort so P._J.. You know who predominantly working at a beat. He was the guy who decided to you know make that way. It's actually something that he had for a while just laying around so that's how that kind of king together and you just kind of called it that he worked on <hes> with this Congolese artists who does like a lot of the CIA towards the end of it <hes> so that's kind of how that kind of happened that was kind of more like a creative decision but as far as like the number of the flow. I decided not to like fight it. Yeah I never tried to attack it like a typical record. I tried to like ride along side the record. Does it go a little bit again macro. What are some of the experiences you had between twenty seventeen and twenty nineteen that inspired light a sonic evolution <hes> I think it was just more soldiers being able to be exposed to more things you know? <hes> actually have an opportunity. I need to travel and actually have an opportunity to spend time in different places instead of coming out and actually spend time with people have real conversation was like one of the more dramatic differences that I had you know making music which was like which allowed me to do that because of the twenty seventeen success test where somewhere you travel that really stuck with you <hes> Amsterdam surprisingly just because they actually have a strong community. They got like a lot of dudes food <hes> daily paper guys who like work out of Amsterdam and a lot of them are from like like like wind guys from London's from all over meeting them other black people and then we kind of had like a discussion about that community where we're actually from you know things like that and it kind of gave me more insight about the community and then just kind of hanging with other people there. What did you hear there? What are some sounds that really got you? It wasn't like I was looking for music. I was just looking for information. The music is whatever like that comes from within it was more so so just like the realization of this bridge in this cultural bridge and being black and just having conversations more so inspired. It opposed to just me hearing something like I'm going to try this. What do you mean by the breads the lack of more so like there's a lack of bridge like there is an bridge connecting us and telling us that were similar? I thought that was a very obvious bridge but it's not as obvious as you think you know like people in black people in Amsterdam or aboriginal people from Australia Black People from D._C.. We don't know that we all have the same upbringing that maybe all of our aunts have ties on the couch or maybe we all you know have that grim on the neighborhood. You know like that actually happens everywhere. It's not just special just for one place a one culture the universal black doc experience yeah exactly yeah well as I said it feels very global and local at the same time but it also feels futuristic yeah. Why was that important for you? You know <hes> I'm not sure I've always been ahead of the curve just because I'm always able to see things a little bit further than the average person. I just felt like if I had to make an estimate I felt like when music was going to go to ask so I kind of just created what I thought. The moment would be in my ahead in the next two years Willie's negative index connected to the border. They let me snug on my Dick's candidate me where they play Michael Nike improper like seven with me Nigga Economy Vic and once you had all of these experiences conversations walking around discoveries. How did you collect all of that? How did you collect all the various sounds onto the album the end of the day? I may show that anything that I did was felt right to me. You know that was the one thing so everything Kinda came through a system of myself. You know I'm very much D._C.. I'm very you know black. I'm very so many you know I am what I am so I kind of just took it in kind of interpreted things. The way that I would hear it or the way that I felt about it and I think you know this kind of art created. It's really interesting that you name the album diaspora because it can mean so many different things so many people and I think when common thread is tension <hes> <hes> they asked people have to learn to maneuver with this tension and you can hear that on a few tracks. There's a tension between the lyrics and the production and it feels like it's kind of a metaphor. Let's play Maniac aw people rubbing aside the whole damn being on my side Cheetah whip it just lying Amenhotep gene in China Smith. I can escape from the Don. Only the word around is it don't matter to hit on the planet Magoo's would catch question when we can zone his rejection Saudi they can gather next might have the whip and we've been guest no time whatsoever lean I mainly. I ain't doing any painting engine driven. I keep Nike quite distant from Nicosia Stay John. How did you achieve this tension? I've been there probably comes from within and I think also it comes from introspective this. I know that's a word but the point is like kind of looking back at where I came from. I did a lot of that. I did a lot of self reflecting collecting a lot of going backwards to make something this forward so maybe that's kind of what the tension comes from and you talk about looking back. Let's Talk About D._C.. For a moment where is right now you hop around you live in different places but D._C.. Is still your home correct yeah. I'm sure you've been keeping up a D._C.. Has Become the fastest gentrifying city in America and we're already seeing real world effects of that for example the don't Meet D._C.. Movement for those who don't know it's a grassroots movement meant to preserve Gogo Music in D._C.. Culture and it started earlier this year with <hes> a clash between locals and let's say the new residents but since you've left D._C.. And you've traveled so much what have you learned about Disea- from being away from it gain a learned on that whatever happened in D._C.'s kind of happening everywhere <hes> everybody has their thing. Everybody has their version of their city. Them memories of their moments are there places their spots their own vernacular their own way of just in their own way of thinking just like D._c.. Those you know and everyone's kind of <hes> especially in black communities you know we're scared of losing grip of that and I feel like everybody's holding onto the little pieces that they have and I think through such a twisted concept zip is bringing us much closer together when you say bringing us closer together who you meet black people internationally globally. It's kind of like black people are black. People are black people everywhere things that unite us all and now that it's been out in the world and you've lived with it and it's breathe beyond your immediate crew. What are you seeing as you're measuring success for this album <hes>? I think the way that I'm looking at it is how it's affecting the people that was intended for which is. Not just black people it wasn't intended to make just for that people is actually intended for anybody who's isolated more so but it just connected with the people here the my own people you know so that's kind of how I measure. The success is like it's a lot more people that look like me coming up to me telling me this. This is their favorite thing and it resonated with them. They're massive fan of it today. Some stops me and grabs my hand and tells me how massive of if any is in <hes> how great the album is and keep going and he's going to see me November because I was show in London another big signifier is the variety of features on it. You got a print. You've got to be really push t tyler. One of the collapse that really stuck out to me was Jackson Wing who is k pop artists Hong Kong hailing rapper and it's on the track rumbles. Let's hear a little bit and talk about it. The mating China own now bring them the respect to about forty with so much of the conversation on this album being around the black experience and that African American diaspora why reach all the way over to Asia like well. He's a holmium I met him at a party and he's like a big big big big fan. You know I didn't know how big of a daily worst and then <hes> you know. I just liked him a lot. He's such a good guy and then you know we hit it off. I was like why why not because like I was saying. It's not just focused on a black guy so naturally I'm going to do things for my community yeah but diaster means so many things like even when I looked up the definition like last like April twenty eighteen I mean you know I was like it said something about the Jews dispersing to the outland so like the outskirts of what the city would be so it never really was <hes> applying to just one specific race. If you WANNA make a gaspar of things and you have to should I ask people. What is I ask for mean to you right now? I don't know it means a lot of things. It doesn't mean just one thing which is why I chose it in the first place. I'll say this dossier the one that sticks out the most is gentrification and then the the people people on the other side of that. That's kind of what it means to me because every time I read the definition no matter where or how I read it Miss Basically I'm just like I can relate to it. I remember when I lived in the city in our house. My uncle's house go to the store. My uncle had a shop there and then seeing foreclose or close apartment buildings you know saying then being like okay and then my mom and dad being like moving to Maryland and then my mom being like you know we're going to Virginia. You know that I see a lot of my friends in Maryland who used to I used to play ball within D._C.. You know and then go to Virginia and you see a few more you know so that's kind of what it means to me. He said you've always felt a little ahead of the curve and you know where music is going. Where do you feel like it's going you know I think that it's going to be just less dumb and a little more intelligent a little more grounded than it was before I think that we're going into a different space where the more musical and the more like caring you are about what you do is going to just start to just be more prominent and it's always been like that time so I think it's just like the newer sound is just going to be like a conglomerate of an international sounds like this kid Santiz from Nigeria? You would never think he was from Nigeria if I didn't tell you if you heard his music because he has so many different influences in so many different sounds that he's perfected. With each song it's just resonated with with the new culture. I think it's going to be more people like sanity. That's going to start championing more so than people are kind of making things that are very cookie cutter that kind of fit into what's already working here like a little less of that within like cookie cutter model like you know what's going to be on the radio. You know it's GonNa make a hit. It's pretty safe and it's it's easy to get comfortable there right and you also know the result of it so so you know exactly what you're getting every time you're never gonNA get element of surprise and you keep making the same thing who is a mother art is that you can think of that are really starting to push this like you said Sandy Tyler who shore the Creator because he always challenges challenges themselves no matter what you think about it. That's what makes them a great honors economies done it for years. Daniel sees it just did it just it it you know he keeps pushing that boundary. Her does the same thing and these are people that don't ever make it safe for themselves. They always make it risky for themselves and succeed tremendously every time so you know it's people like that that are really pushing this thing forward and when they do it everyone follows suit. Every time we do it. Have you decided to do it did change makers. You talked about things you're not safe and comfortable. You know the metric of where it's going to go. It's a surprises that get you in that movie. What's surprising on the album on this album? I'm just going to see N._B._C. Southwest S I don't need no friends. I don't know I just need our boat entertained and a black girl would've plan who's a school where kids can then. She's a good kid. Man City minivan go to yard is like such a surprising song because it's resonating with so many different people. I think that one's Kinda crazy to me how easy it resonating already just seems I people know the song longer than I've known it. That's why I know resonates. They sing it like better than me. You know I did one installation for the show in London thin- that song just erupted the roof of the building that we had to stop and start over and as you said D._C.. Will always be your home. What is there specifically about D._C.? On the album there's a lot of it is like it's sprinkled throughout the album but the main thing you ruined Ni- who's on rumble you know having a d._c.. Artist at his own thing too. It was very important for me. I I just. The policy which was the most difficult for you to make Spanish on it took me the longest a right. I defend the inspiration defend the pocket for it may defend the like the the idea idea for it. It was like a conglomerate of just trying to make it feel like something you know. Let's try to make it feel like it's a party the entire time and I tried to write it almost imagery based the story in my head was like a guy at a bar Uh with his friends off work. He's going through these things at his home. Sees this girl like you know say he's him and five of his guys in the guys you know the forgotten. Just you know he's timid guys kind of in the back. He's a little strange strange. Start drinking a little bit starts filling themselves. Let's liquor kind of control where he decides to go and titles Dream Antenna. Whatever that's cool that guy that Wigan my maybe my baby and how tonight and I know what the men on hand then as he could do man I have for myself and everything that I wanted and I mean a real but you something they need <music>? I picked a few tracks. Do you have a specific track. You talk about Kobe push t one of the best rap verses of the year co way spider Coke Way Rover Coke Coke Baking Soda Poker half a million curve just to show you you can be the mayor win the whole city Ohio. We've bought invited like the no limit soldiers ice cream. May Kilos go for lower. The luggage is the new buyer Amoah dilemma shoulder straps makes it easy but show was the P._G.'s six better whole one is not your bitch and draws dealers never been a niche we compare risk by the watch complications weekend. Rich damaged line up a star Constellation numbers phone conversations match push said was like he gave you an entire scenario area like he he laid the foundation for the song before the song actually begins and I kinda just came back and just kind of finish it with such a reflective track. I think that's why I enjoy so much and it's really clear through this conversation sation through listening to the album through known your music for years now that you you make good use of your inspirations so who or what are you currently inspired by right now. I'm inspiring myself. You know because now that I've removed removed myself complaining. There's nothing that can really do about the record now is out into the world. I listened to it from <hes> consumer standpoint. I just I'm actually like blown away. Very proud of the product is very inspiring. So what do you have playing next to inspire yourself. I just wait for. I'm not really in a rush okay. You know all right. Dan vs finest the Proprietor D._C.. goaling thank you for talking with us from the U._K.. Thanks for having me.

D._C London Amsterdam BBC CIA grammy Sydney Madden Robin Hilton Lizzie Brent Faez Bre Washington emmy Nike Sydney Maryland Virginia Gogo Music Willie Ohio China Smith
The Breakdown: Q&A #2

22 Hours: An American Nightmare

45:49 min | 1 year ago

The Breakdown: Q&A #2

"Hi guys making clarity jack moore and julia ziglar is joining us our content advisor for this unanswered questions at the sewed. We've teased at a couple times asking you to send in your questions and you did thank you very much. We got got a bunch of them. <hes> and we're gonna start hopefully with <hes> the questions that are kind of the most pressing jack yes got questions from the live blog that we've had set up our twitter account and also through voicemail and we looked through tried to pick questions there was a lot of interest in or a lot of people had similar questions around and then also ones that using in our knowledge of the case using the evidence that we can answer even though there are some of those questions that you know are unanswerable but using the evidence that we have we can we can discuss those those questions perfect so gills is going to ask the questions <hes> and we'll get started. We're starting with the money yeah and the first question comes to us via voicemail hi this. This is carson you calling in from houston texas. My question revolves around daschle. Ransom money alluded to the fact bad. <hes> daring had this money and giving some of it to his girlfriend. You spent some of it but do they have a total accounting for at the forty grand that is missing. That's a great question. We've gotten a lot of questions about the money actually so jackson and kind of kick off for how we break down the forty grand yes so you start with the forty grand we know was the ransom money and then let's take a step back and look at how much money police recovered on the night. Darren was arrested. You remember he was in the chevy. Heavy cruiser was following the box truck. There was a bunch of money orders and cash in total. There was twenty three thousand dollars in money orders in about seven one thousand dollars in cash so when you add that all up that's about thirty thousand dollars give or take so there's ten thousand missing so then we were looking at all the things darren was spending money on to see you know what's the difference and just to clear it up. They believe investigators believe the twenty thousand that was in money orders was from the forty thousand dollars in cash that money orders obviously you can take take the cash to like the western union right eight or something and get money orders which is what durell said he was doing with the girls <hes> the night of the arrest so so again it's a twenty three thousand and money orders seven thousand cash gets you to thirty so jack now we have another ten grand takao for and so we know one of the things is you know cash. If if you're paying with things and cash there's no record of that transaction so this is what we have evidence from what other people saw him spending or for example <hes> on may sixteenth eighteenth two days after the fire darren went to an immigration attorney to sort out his <hes> green card issues and he spent eleven hundred dollars and we know that because he took a picture sure of the receipt and message at two vanessa so so that's one where we have come documentary evidence of <hes> there was other spending that vanessa and other people testified testified. They saw darren doing their shopping with vanessa in new york so we know that darren spent money on her as far as she by they bought shoes. They bought an iphone. That's it's a couple hundred bucks. Groceries dinner spent a couple of hundred dollars on lottery tickets then money to pay your credit card off money to pay her rent which is a couple thousand dollars and this. This is all from his testimony and her testimony so it's cooperated again it's cash so we don't know how much he spent on each those things roy. The lotto tickets is interesting because that's how darren explained. We're all this money was coming from. He told vanessa who's spending hundreds on lottery tickets and he was telling her they kept winning and that's how he had all this money to go on the shopping trips and then that night when <hes> they see darren's face on the news and they flee to the hotel room darren used some of those hundred dollar bills to pay for the hotel and then when he came back and he took delivery cab from new york to d._c. He paid eleven hundred dollars to the cabdriver which we know from the cab driver ever and then you have the money that was spent on the hotel room the howard johnson hotel room that they got when darren came back to maryland. He meets up with durrell in d._c. The in durrell testified he had a hotel room but that darren paid for it so that was about one hundred dollars so that gets close. You know you have a couple of hundred dollars that you can't account for it. Does i mean when you add those three things up that are known amounts right that eleven hundred dollars the immigration attorney the fifteen hundred dollars that he'd left with vanessa in new york the eleven hundred dollars for the cab ride back to dc. That's another thirty seven hundred dollars right so that now gets us to thirty three thousand seven hundred dollars plus. All all of those things megan that you just mentioned in terms of rights shopping paying her credit card bill money to pay her rent. New york rents not cheap right no matter where you live so <hes> that's another at least few thousand dollars there so we were already up to about thirty four thousand dollars now easily all of that spending could have been another three or four grand which now we're at thirty seven thirty eight thousand dollars which again were getting closer to this total forty grand bucket right and we should mention remind mind you guys vanessa was not charged in this case and you know that was a decision by prosecutors because she could have been again. If you go back to the story her testimony and darren's he told told her he lied to her and told her that he won the lottery so she's okay with him spending this money on her because she hasn't thinks he's doing anything wrong <hes> to thinks they finally came into some good luck tuck. It is worth noting though that the prosecution mentioned the motive here was he wanted a lifestyle he couldn't have oh by the way he was engaged and couldn't afford a ring and in all of the spending we don't have darren went buying an engagement ring another thing that we didn't mention <hes> because it just wasn't appropriate at the time detailing detailing the injuries is that amy vocalists had her ring on however the medical examiner noted that there was evidence insist that someone tried to remove it. It's interesting because sabas rolex was left. His wallet was left there. Were there were nice things in that home that were we're not taken and there is evidence that her ring was tried to be proud of her finger and i pulled my notes from that testimony and the medical examiner said and this is you know i i note of her saying this. It's not a direct quote but it says right middle finger had gray ring with stones. It was slightly deformed. The ring was the trauma to her finger was caused by the ring by someone trying to remove it and that's just for you guys to to know that fact and do with it what you will so. We have a related question from angela and this came to us through the live blog. Angela asked is any of the money found with darrin traceable back act to the bank of america that it came from or to the transaction. She says i had read that. Typically cash isn't tracked but it seems like someone somewhere has to keep track of those serial numbers and the movement of large sums of money so prosecutors. <hes> said that there were no serial numbers they could use the track this cash the comparison they could make is that the money was given a hundred dollar bill denominations and that was the denomination bills that was found <hes> darren was arrested in remember at the time name the the bank of america handed over the forty thousand dollars. It was just a regular business transaction. There was no. They had no reason to believe that anything suspicious what's going on on yeah. I think you know cash is always difficult to attracted me. Think about if you you know take a twenty dollar bill and spend it at starbucks. I mean you handed over. It goes using their cash register. Nobody is checking the serial numbers at that point. I mean at some point it winds up back at a bank but even then they're handing over to customers who are doing withdrawals. You know there's not really people tracking serial numbers of cash. That's not known to be involved in anything is it. It is interesting because it makes you think of like a movie or something like you would think that if he was if it came directly from a bank they would have some idea of how to account from the specific bills but as far as we can tell from the investigation do not another question about the money this it also comes from the live blog <hes> from jessica and she says i know darren told some people that he had won the lottery but wouldn't there be a record of that somewhere in my state. If you win more than six hundred dollars you have to go to the lottery office in person to cashing your earnings. That would be traceable right. Yes jessica would be <hes> knows a great point. I mean prosecutors pulled lottery records from d._c. Maryland and new york and not only do they not have record of daron wint winning anything. Darren didn't claim lottery winnings and he admitted during the trial that that whole thing was a lie he lied to godfrey and he lied to vanessa okay. Our next question comes from a voicemail. Hi meghan is alexandria alexandria calling from dallas. How did darren no the money could possibly be delivered to the house if you claim to break in and force family to provide him with forty k. in cash why would he under under the impression that no one in the family have to leave the house to go to the bank and execute that transaction my first thought would be i'll have to go to the bank resolve our his wife so how the way we see people at the house. I thought this was a really good question because the entire time that we've been working on this case that's something that i hadn't thought of <hes> and yeah it does speak to the idea of planning right. I mean that there may be wasn't to plan <hes>. We obviously have no evidence that darren plan this but you would think thank you would think and i guess it's. It's all speculation that if you were going into a house the amount of money that you want is not sitting in that house so you would have to leave the house to get it. I don't don't i mean we don't have any idea that <hes> that darren knew that salva could have the money delivered to the house but that goes back to what lauterbach said which is it wasn't darren masterminding this. It was salva mean. Sava was in this position where he had to save his family so it is interesting though it's an interesting point i think that's is one of the things too that you make an assumption i think as a listener or as someone who <hes> has been following the case that darren asked for the money but perhaps it was the other way around to your point megan right where maybe went in and something changed at some point <hes> in in whatever this was supposed to be and then this idea of having money delivered to the house came about someone someone that was already in the house right in question that jack and i have gotten a lot just throughout this podcast like from colleagues and from people writing in why forty grand right that's such a random amount amount of money why not like fifty grand we think it was forty grand because salva could get forty grand without raising red flags which again goes to that same point is sava is the one who's making this happen to try and get his family out of this and again it goes to the point of why would he ask jordan wallace his assistant of seven weeks to drop the money off and not some other company official and i think because if you look at the circumstances of how the money drop happened which was okay go into my garage and leave it in the front seat of the car there. If this were the chief chief financial officer of his company he that might have raised red flags. <hes> everything we know about jordan wallace is that he was you know <hes> really enjoyed working for salva and and saw him as kind of this cool boss and so you know he would basically do whatever the boss would tell him to do so this didn't raise red flags like sure. I'll put the money in the front seat. You know package delivered which is what he texted sava and went on his way right and like you said i mean this is still a relatively new job for him rights. You're not gonna ask questions and here's gonna do what your boss tells you to do. No matter if it seems awkward or whatever i think as you know jordan even said during the trial oh like he sent that picture of the cash to his girlfriend because you know this isn't a situation that he found himself in often right who has forty thousand dollars. There's in one hundred dollar bills in their car and you have to remember to just that last thing is the timing of this sava said. Call me when you're ten minutes out and that's when jordan jordan gets the instruction to leave it on a car so maybe if you had forty minutes to think about oh you know i'm driving from the bank. That's weird. I'm leaving on the car. Why would ring the doorbell yeah. If you've time. Do you think about it but you're ten minutes out. You're making your last kind of turns and you you hear okay. Just leave another car. I'm on a conference call. I can see how that in the moment like okay fine look. You're not. I'm not going to question my boss. Lady tried good american jeans yet. These bestselling genes are designed to lift you up there. Perfectly highway said which helps sweating the tummy. 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We have a lot of questions about darren's alibi what he testified during the trial which i don't think anyone and we can forget okay. Our first question on the topic of ed and darren's alibi count comes from lara on the live blog. She says why i wouldn't police have asked ed to verify the darren was there at the time of the arrest i am sure darren told the police he was at ed's house wouldn't that have cleared him of this because he had an alibi that puts ed's house while the victims are being held captive so we don't know what darren told police on the night he was arrested and we don't no no what he told his lawyers over the three and a half years that he was awaiting trial but what we do know is that a defense investigator who was hired to look into ed to make sure he was a real person who lived in southeast d._c. In may twenty fifteen did look into but he said he was not asked to do this. Investigation sedation until august twenty eighteen just a month before the trial started in more than a year after ed had died so then the the question becomes if you're darren and that's your alibi and that was your alibi the entire time. Why would you have waited a month before your trial to say oh by the way i was at this guy's house ed yup yeah and i think this speaks to darren's changing stories right. I mean everybody who has listened to the last episode of the podcast will now. They'll know that there were a lot of stories that darren had told and kept changing his stories in order to fit the time line. That's the laura bach. The prosecutor said right because to your point meghan it seems very odd that he would not have said something to his attorney night one or whenever the first moment he spoke to his attorney i have an alibi. I have an alibi for that day. Go talk to ed right away and so there's a follow up question <hes> from stacy or stacey forgive me if i said your name incorrectly <hes> on the live blog and she says i find it odd that darren would have not known own that ed was dead until the prosecution told him while he was being cross examined if it was his alibi when defensive investigated it judy pipe throughout the trial dole had maintained that she was not sharing all the information with darrin <hes> it. It does seem odd that that's something they wouldn't have shared. It seems like the defense investigator gator would have known that that ed spain had died in june two thousand seventeen from a cocaine and federal overdose but darren maintained when he was being cross examined that but he had no idea so there are a lot of fires in this case there was the of course the house fire. There was the porsche fire there was the fire fire of the debris that was burned and there was the fire of darren's van going up in flames so four fires yeah amber on the live blog said. Can you clarify the timeline of the fires amber. This is a question that i had in megan. Jack can tell you this. I asked them so. Many questions about the the fires is in win each happened <hes>. I had a lot of questions about it to one of my questions in particular as well was if the porsche isn't set on fire until around five p._m. The m the day of the fire on woodland drive which was at one thirty p m. What did he do with the car all day so let's start okay. The house fire fire on woodland. Drive is at one twenty four p._m. That's when the nine one one call comes in and then about twenty minutes later one forty two that's when via traffic camera and also the witness sees the porsche on new york avenue had an into maryland so we don't have an accounting of the porsche after one forty two you know if it was being driven around. We don't know if it was just right to the back of the church. Parking lot parked there after it was on that traffic camera at one forty two the next time we know anything thing about the porsche is that his burning at five thirty and we know the dare is not driving it because then at two twenty pm a tow truck as seen on traffic cameras driving from lana maryland entity see and we know darin his in that tow truck because he said he was and the tow truck driver testified that he was and darren was using the tow truck drivers phone to send messages so at two twenty pm that tow truck is driving from lanham into dc then at three forty so it's an hour twenty minutes later. The tow truck is seen in dc heading back into maryland so in between in that hour and twenty minutes. Tow truck went to downtown d._c. To twenty four th and k loaded up darren's blue minivan was now driving back into maryland and then at three fifty four p._m. So just before four pm that tow truck truck is seen hauling the blue minivan inland near lafontaine blue which matches with everyone's testimony the darren went back to the parking lot darren of course as you know he then realizes he does not want to leave right right because he doesn't have the keys and then he finds them in. He's waiting around. He's he says for route show up and then he realizes the keys are in the glove compartment and then drives away so there was something in between this time that doesn't have to do with the porsche but there was a woman who worked at la fontaine contain blue who testified twice actually because she was called back during rebuttal <hes> that she saw a man matching darren subscription when she left work that day around five o'clock she was walking walking out with a colleague she sees a man you sort of walking around like pacing around the parking lot darren says in his testimony he was doing that. He was looking for wi fi and he he was like you know that sort of like the old you know you're holding your phone out like you hear me now rating for spiritual somehow yeah but he says that's what he was doing that puts him there at five o'clock. She doesn't remember seeing porsche. She testified to that but she also testified that she hasn't remember seeing van. So that is what it is. I mean does it really matter. This woman saw him didn't van we don't know but basically then we now at five thirty a half hour later the porsche's burning about two hundred feet from where she was standing in where she saw him then that night we know that darren met up with his brother durell and they went to walmart and in between those two trips to walmart so sometime sometime between ten forty five and eleven thirty and we know that because of the time stamps on the wal mart surveillance video that's when durrell testified that darren directed him to this kind secluded spot near where darren used to work metal fab and darren took bucket of gas and went out you know somewhere in the darkness and took a bag with him and came back with the bucket and then they drove off in durrell saw the smoke later he took investigators to that same spot and they found <hes> a pile of burnt debris which included <hes> zip ties which were believed to restrained some of the victims <hes> and that was the third fire that was the for third fire and now we got to the fourth fire which which is on may fifteenth the day after the murders about eleven fifteen p. M. darren asks godfrey for help. Burning his van godfrey says no and then about an hour for in fifteen minutes later. The van is burning around that same area where the pile of debris had been burned worry that was going to be my questions. I think how far apart were those three fires obviously the house the woodland drive fires in d._c. But the porsche fire the debris fire and the van fire. Are we talking the same general vicinity. Are we talking. You know twenty minutes apart or we i talked to the porsche fire was in lanham. I would say i mean i i would have to google map it to be sure about twenty thirty minutes drive from metal fab which is where the small debris fire and the van fire was because those two fires were close together. They were close together. They were police that actually people burned cars. That was the thing that happened in that. The area where the porsche burn was very very dense. I mean there was yes. It was off of annapolis road off busy busy road and kind of a weird parking lot that went back really as far so you know it was a little bit out of sight that way but there were apartments right there. There are businesses right there. I mean it wasn't the metal fab areas a little more secluded little more of like an industrial area yeah <hes> that's where the two other fires happened in terms of just the does the timeline fit <hes> and in terms of my question about what was he doing <hes> as you guys have just laid out about that time very quickly fills up if at one twenty four is when we're actually seeing smoke and fire enough that the nine one one operator is calling on woodland drive have an-and darren gets to <hes> <hes> lanham and then he has to get back to dc to get his van and then back to maryland with the van right now. We're all the way up to almost four o'clock. It accounts for darren's whereabouts. It does count for the porsche's whereabouts. I mean you know we the last the first being driven is at one forty two so i think the assumption at least during the trial was it was parked in that parking right and it was kind of hidden out of sight and people didn't didn't really know it. Was there roy. What are the interesting things. Is that <hes> when when this crime force happened when the firefighters found the bodies of the victims in the house one of the first pieces of information was have you seen this blue porsche and police we found it but we want to know if you saw it at any point earlier this day that was a a big be on the lookout big bulletin and as far as we know only one person ever came forward and that was the witness in this case which is kind of interesting <hes> because this is a very flashy expensive sports car and it was being driven erratically through d._c. And police put out a big call for anyone to have seen it and only one person came forward what were makes you really wonder when people asked about other <hes> sightings of other things in this case and there's been evidence and people. Maybe put too much weight on that well. Nobody nobody saw nobody saw that. I mean here's what i would consider a very <hes> very <hes> were looking for a car that stands out right and only one person came forward so right. It just goes to show you witnesses witnesses. Don't see everything absolutely and we do have one final related question from amber on the live blog. She says assuming he set the porsche rush on fire. Why would he ask for or need help with his van meaning. If he was capable of setting one car on fire by himself. Why would he needed to ask godfrey to help him burn his van basically the answer that we can figure out he had a way of getting out of there when the porsche was burned and he didn't have a way of getting away from his van being burned. It's a very simple answer and we nobody said that during the trial but i guess if you're gonna burn your band and you're gonna drive to a secluded spot. I mean you have to have a way to get back although godfried in helping him so he must have found another way we've all had a bad night's sleep every once in a while and as we all know a bad night's sleep can really affect the quality of your daily life but purple apple mattress can change all that purple mattress is different. It's not like the memory foam you might be used to. It's made from material developed by an actual rocket scientist just giving you this zero gravity like feel so it works for any sleeping position allowing you to get the best sleep you've ever had. 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Another question that that was raised was about darren's immigration status and is green card or lack thereof so curious serious whether or not darren could ever be deported so i guess <hes> fia radically yes after darren was was arrested on immigration and customs enforcement filed what's known as detained or <hes> on darren went which would mean that <hes> if he were ever released from <hes> custody that they would then <hes> initiate you know proceedings against him that as long as he's imprisoned they they can't do that and since he's serving <hes> four life sentences it seems improbable that he would ever get out of prison so it's kind of a really theoretical question. <hes> the next question is about about the question we all have really. It's about how darren found himself at thirty two zero one drive yes. This question comes from rachel rachel and she says if darren allegedly didn't know where his brothers were taking him for this job then did the prosecutors or detectives. Ask him when he learned or realized or was told whose house it belonged to since he supposedly never saw or heard the family upstairs so in essence. When did he find out that this was the home of his former boss. According to darren he found out that it was the house that he was in when he saw it on the news burning he never said that he that anybody told him or he realized at all that it was the civilised house right which is why we think that that one searched that we we found on the night of the fire before the victims have been identified and darren searching for savage vocalist die which we believe could be <hes> a search for their name that had been autocorrect it or miss typed indicates you know he knew the name of the victims and in his story he showed up at a house. You know a fancy house in northwest d._c. <hes> and just to kind of reiterate so when darren testified. He said he didn't know wears former boss had lived and that he'd never been to that house. Woodland drive before he said is whether took him there interesting though right as we learned in the last episode as well. This is where those changing stories come into play as well because one of the early stories that darren aaron apparently told was that he had been to thirty two o one will then drive he found himself there <hes> and he was asking about washing some cars yet he had initially said will this is according to laura bach in her memo to the judge sentencing that initially darren had said oh yeah i was at the house talking to solve on may twelfth and asked him if i could make some money as he was looking for work and salva said he could wash cars and that he should come back the next day and if you did a good job upi get paid and then of course we never heard that story again and there's a lot of questions about why he told vanessa that but yeah i mean in that version of the story. He knew exactly where he was does. He was talking to his boss and he was standing outside his house and again. We didn't find that out though of course until the sentencing that was not that didn't come into the trial itself in the trial which happened. I exactly as jack said earlier you know. He said he had never been to that house. He didn't know where his former boss lived. <hes> and then we find out during the sentencing that indeed there were some other conflicting stories and that leads to a related question that we got from amy <hes> obviously at joel's set it up but basically it's about did did you know was there more of a relationship between sava and darren right so amy on the live blog asked us whether or not they had been friendly. You know what what what was the relationship like between darren and his former boss salvatore vocalists and <hes> we did actually get some information on this from darren sister <hes> yes she had appeared on another podcast and i believe in some early reporting about the case that suggested said that savas darren were friends or <hes> you know hanging out and there's never came up with the trial and in fact all the testimony that we learned during the trial including from darren really contradicts this when darren testified. He said he he <hes> he didn't really even know in his words. Salva as the boss of the company he he knew sabas father as the boss of the company <hes> and he said you know salva would would maybe come back to the shop and tell the guys good job or something part of the reason we we didn't come up at trial is because samantha never testified so she was interviewed for this other podcast before the trial even started said this and then we never heard about it again so <hes> we kind of dismissed it because if it was something it had merit it would have come up during the trial and one final thing about the relationship between salvos darren in terms of who was running the company. We didn't spend a lot of time on this <hes> in the podcast because it was complicated but actually during the trial this was a big there was a lot of back and forth north because when darren testified he he did try to claim that he he like barely recognize salva as the boss of the company which prosecutors seem to <hes> think was him trying to distance himself from having any connection to the victims which really undercut this idea that they see they were friendly or that. <hes> darren would have gone to the house regularly seeking king employment. You know i guess it goes back to the idea of shifting stories yeah. Absolutely the next question goes to this. This planning did darren no where he was or have a plan when he went in yeah. Alexandria in dallas left us a voicemail on this the belief that are mentioned whether went went into the house without a weapon again a strange choice. It seems like a really well thought out crime except getting caught part so y enter the house without so much as a significant weapon especially if you unsure of who might be home at the time we don't have evidence that he went in with any weapon especially given the injuries to the victims uh-huh they could all be accounted for items that were found in the house so the baseball bat for the bludgeoning the <hes> the the bag for the nation and and then the sword <hes> for the stabbing injuries so there was no evidence that anything that hurt the victims or or killed the victims was brought in from the outside <hes> that said it is interesting and we wanted to remind you guys there were firearms in the house <hes> in that locked cabinet that was in another room where there was also thirteen thousand dollars in cash which i still sort of just makes my mind swirl because i just feel like you know as a as a victim sitting there tied up. You're thinking what can i do and there's just a room away. Basically there's a weapon that you can use but you can't can't get to the weapon without possibly somebody discovering it. You can't say oh there's more money you can have to let us go without directing them to the weapon so it's a castro tail end in to alexandria question just because the victims were not killed using a weapon that darren went and brought with himself does not i mean he didn't bring a weapon or something that appear to be a weapon. There's an interesting <hes> part of darren's criminal history which we didn't get into in the last episode but it's it's there <hes> it was in twenty ten <hes> he was arrested for having an open container of alcohol <hes> at a gas station across the street from american ironworks but police least found him found with him backpack that had a machete and a b._b. Gun and the b._b. Gun looked like a real firearm and when we talked to glenn kirschner former federal the prosecutor he pointed to that arrest <hes> as being a particularly telling perhaps because he wondered <hes> you know could win into have brought a b._b. Gun or a weapon or looked like a firearm that would be a way you could subdue for people more easily <hes> and that's what clinton it said to if you can control one person theoretically this is something that could have been done by one person. If you're controlling one of the victims you know you basically have control of all four right and i me and actually i was just thinking <hes> to alexander's question about what how well planned out it was really. It's hard to answer that <hes> because we don't know what his intentions engines were so we don't know if it followed the plan that he had one of the things it's it's easy when you say four victims and if one person able to control them to think wow there must have been so much planning liaoning but i think if you another way to look at it is <hes> you know the length of time these people were held and then all the ways it could have gone wrong because you had <hes> bernardo viewers husband shop to the house. You had jordan dropping off the money. There was a potential you know they were only when jordan was dropping off the cash and bernardo and his daughter order were there there was only like maybe twenty minutes overlap if they would have met each other at the house and they talk to each other like what's going on it. Could you know it was like and i've said this earlier in the podcast but it really is almost like he got lucky because there was so many ways where this could have all they could have gotten that voicemail and thought this is weird and i'm gonna go check that out the house right. I mean there are so many ways. Where could have all gone wrong so if you're planning it out. I don't know that you would have had that many opportunities for your plan to fail this brad milkey host the daily a._b._c. News podcast start here each morning. Just twenty minutes start here gets up to speed on the stories. That will be driving your day brad. I so things that i will never ever forget dan from groundbreaking investigations. The report talks about how crowded the system is toward top-shelf political coverage words. The middle class starts smart. We start here the daily podcast from a._b._c. news. Listen for free on apple podcasts or your favorite podcast app. Hey guys megan here if you live in in the d._c. Area and are looking for a place to get top local and national news quickly each day. We'd love for you to check out w._t._o. Peas daily podcast top news from w. t. o. p. The five minute podcast is available each morning an updated multiple times throughout the day. Give it a try. Subscribe on itunes or listen on alexa. You've heard me talk talk about w._t._o. P it's where jack and i work and the company that produced twenty two hours in american nightmare. We thank you for all the support for twenty two hours and look forward to bringing you more exciting content tent in the final question that we're going to tackle in this q._n._a. Is perhaps the one is the one actually early that we have gotten the most questions on throughout the entire podcast ashley in upstate new york raven in chicago caroline on twitter. They all i wanna know did darren act alone. What are your thoughts on. Multiple people were involved. It's pretty hard for me to believe that that he pulled it off on his own. <hes> would really love to hear what you think okay so the thing is the best way to tackle this. Is you take on. Let's take on why it seems like he may have had help so the driver of the porsche is described. Someone who doesn't look anything like darren went who's slide who has short hair. He seemed driving the porsche into lanham are into maryland but on the other hand <hes> you could make the point in the prosecutors did that the witness. Just you know was paying more attention to the vehicle not the driver. It was a moment of time. He just got the description wrong. Okay then you have the garage door opening four darren as he approaches darren story of choruses tyrrell's inside waiting for him but it does seem weird that the garage door opens and he walks right in without touching right and then the other side is that they found the automatic automatic garage door opener right inside the house and endurance story. If somebody is in the house and the garage doors closed. How would they know you. Were right on the other side to open it up for you <unk> at that exact moment then there's guy running with the bucket what looks like a bucket from the burning porsche who looks like he's very slim person obviously wearing a hoodie so we couldn't really tell much more than that but everyone i mean prosecutors defense everybody in the courtroom pretty much agreed that it was not darren went right and lord bach in her closing in came up with a a possibility that you know that area was known for these sketchy activities people hanging out. Maybe people homeless people living there and that perhaps darren went with lot of cash could have had somebody hunted our bill and paid them to set the porsche on fire. I think the best arguments is sort of the how could one in person have done this alone. If there were four people you have amy and savvas kid. They're gonna do absolutely anything they can to save their child. I mean i get where people are coming from where or they're saying this could in just one person but then we go back to the control issue and taking them one by one how this could have as the experts of sad. I mean it's possible somebody could have done this by themselves and i think anytime you have. Somebody's child it so it's so easy to put try to put yourself in that situation and say well. I would have done this. I would have done that but i just can't imagine he e even if there was any point where any of the adults could have escaped. You're gonna so your child behind. I just can't see that happening. So then we go to y we think and obviously why the jury thought that that darren went was the man responsible for this first of all he had all the money most of the forty thousand dollars it wasn't like he was found with twenty and another twenty just mysteriously disappeared and he could have split it with somebody he had almost all of if not all of the forty grand he was the only person seen near the house by the australian ambassadors workers curse who saw him slip into the garage. There is the d._n._a. Which is only links. Darren went to the crime scene to multiple pieces of the crime scene <hes> in the house and on that construction vest in the porsche. Nobody else's d._n._a. Nobody else's fingerprints were found inside that house but darren ones right and i think you know kind of to the larger larger point if you put the question of the brothers to the side because that was litigated at the trial i mean that was the main question at the trial and the jury didn't believe that version of events so if you put that out to the side if darren had help if there was anyone else involved who who would they be why why would darren be protecting them at this point. You know that's something thing. Maybe we'll never have an answer is thank you for sending in your questions. Thank you for all your support art throughout this entire podcast jack and i will continue to sort of you know answer questions and check on social media if you guys want to continue since questions and we are going back to our regular day jobs but this is something that was really been a passion project for us for the last year. You can still contact us on twitter. It's at twenty two hours odd. We still have our website twenty to you our podcast dot com and if you wanna keep in touch as far as updates in this case if we do hear back from any of the people who contacted if we get a bombshell mm shell or if they end up releasing tapes anything that thing that happens. We will let you know when you can sign up for e mail list so we can alert you to that. You can find that on the twenty two hours podcast cast dot com so thank you jack for all your hard work. Thanks to julia ziegler for content advising extraordinaire and thank you for listening music for this episode is haters hate by ramon messim twenty two hours. An american nightmare is a production of w._t._o. In washington d._c. Got plans for labor day weekend. Do they include saving money because labor day savings at the home depot means up to forty percents off appliance special buys get a quiet running whirlpool dishwasher washer that senses how dirty your dishes are adapts. Its cleaning cycle. It's just three hundred seventy eight dollars so you'll save. Two hundred bucks sounds like a plan c._y._a. Why would labor day savings today's day for doing the home depot more sick more doing u._s. Only lasted store for details about september eleventh.

M. darren d._c jack porsche new york vanessa who prosecutor twitter maryland van godfrey darren aaron lanham megan maryland dc Darren chevy jordan jordan durrell
Meet Paul Manafort's century-old forefather, who also liked fancy suits


04:51 min | 1 year ago

Meet Paul Manafort's century-old forefather, who also liked fancy suits

"Hey history lovers. I'm mike rosen with retro pod. Show about the past rediscovered today. I want to introduce you a two samuel cutler ward. He's the nineteenth century forefather of paul manafort the lobbyists and former trump campaign chairman on trial near washington four number of alleged misdeeds like manafort who reportedly owns an ostrich jacket sam ward had some seriously expensive taste ace the finest french food and wines and suits so well cut one biographer wrote that quote no mud seemed to stick just like manafort ward needed to dress to impress not the oligarchs at the former trump campaign official built a fortune porting and lobbying for around the world but the emerging titans of the gilded age who wanted a favor or to in congress because more than one hundred fifty a years before manafort transformed lobbying by taking the business beyond its traditional home near the white house on k. street. Sam ward was shaping the craft after lobbying at his home on east street hosting long gluttonous dinners with politicos and what we now call interest groups while ward was not america's first lobbyist he was proclaimed then and now as the king of the lobby which is also the title of two thousand one biography by historian katherine l. among jacob that chronicles how ward plied his trade in the chaotic ascendant days of washington following the civil war as described by jacob those days sound familiar. She wrote quote. The capital was a tinderbox growing more volatile each day. The a deepening fisher was splitting the nation open and the capital sat squarely on the faultline enter ward the son of a new york banker who before arriving in d._c. traveled through europe acquiring expensive taste in food and clothing as well as a p._h._d. In mathematics ward was a blonde vivant a true social butterfly in his book so damn much money former washington post managing editor robert kaiser described how applied his extreme sociability skills that contributed as kyw's wrote to quote the image of washington lobbyists as scoundrels albeit sometimes charming scoundrels while guys like samuel coat the gun maker showed up in washington to lobby congress with actual bags of money in guns work would carefully sit important members of congress next to his clients clients at his dinners gently steering the conversation in their favor and then collecting a check when it all worked out government officials love these dinners particularly the food thanks to plentiful rare ingredients brought to town by the country's new rail system fine cuisine and was as new and exciting as a cronut. Did he provide gifts as well. Yes yes he did voice tres bottles of burgundy rare share books. There was literally nobody in washington ward couldn't charm and that includes includes a congressional committee investigating the practices of lobbyists in eighteen seventy five and some payments ward received on a client's behalf in his book kaiser quotes from the hearing transcript describing how ward matter of factly detailed the payments he had received for his help. I must say ward said that it was very liberal compensation for the moderate amount of work which that's subsidy seemed to require kaiser noted something odd about testimony to the word laughter kept appearing naga for obviously recording for history. How award made people investigating him laugh and laugh and laugh kaiser probably summed up wards life better than anyone writing writing quote. He was a genuine washington character who exploited the character of the times which was corrupt erupt. I'm mike rosen world. Thanks for listening for more forgotten stories from history visit washington post dot com slash retro pot.

manafort ward washington mike rosen congress robert kaiser paul manafort katherine l. kaiser new york jacob samuel europe chairman official managing editor america kyw d._c.