1 Episode results for "cassandra gray"
Reality Queers w/ Jess Rothschild - Ep. 181
"You know clapping on a podcast and then eventually like started hot takes deep dives which is truly the blend of everything i was doing on auto straddle with the bravo housewives. It leans very heavy into that. But i also people like rosie o'donnell and right margaret show ed beachill draft people that have nothing to do with what i find an angle that right and it really is the perfect marriage of both caroline's like interests. It feels like it was meant to be your. Let's start together a tau. Welcome it taking out a podcast. That is fully vaccinated against the patriarchy. I'm caroline i'm melody cumali. And today we're taking out with podcast and writer jess rothschild about reality queers so excited for you on this. One melody was huge for me. I'm excited because we were both excited to talk to jess. Because as you'll all learn she just she the coolest where if we were to make ven diagram of my interest in melodies interests the middle thickly. The middle is just rothschild sills out the middle right right some quick announcements as always. You can rate review on apple podcasts stereo on their re times a week. We're having fun right. I had a lot of fun especially this last week. Yeah we had a really good app about lgbtq terms and had a good discussion about like what do these terms mean. What were their origins. And we posted that actually on patriotic. Because we thought it was a great discussion so you can go to the lincoln. Our show notes and for free for stereo. It's a great way to support us and get extra content again for free and make sure you follow melody cumali and tgi caroline on the app so you get notifications when we go live yes. We're not the best about scheduling knowing ahead of time. Yeah one we're going to go live and promoting. We are busy. Believe it or not and also i'm patriot and you can get extra content. Every week we talk about this week kalani angel olsen and we talk about mayor of east town. Even simone's talking amber heard all the good stuff. It's on patriots john. One last announcement may sixteenth. Some of you have been asking about our dyke cookout with dyke beer. It's gonna be at noon at queen's bridge park probably by the baseball fields. I think they want to get a kick ball game going out before it gets crowded. So we'll have more details on exactly where in the park but queens. Park in queens. They're going to be vegan. Hot dogs for sale by. We're going to have while there's going to be like beer for sale. They have a new batch. We're going to have a form on our instagram. So you can volunteer to bring things. We're going to be needing portable grills if anybody has them and coolers and just general helps so for interested. Keep an eye out on instagram for that. All right all right. it's time baby. Caroline was the gays thing. You did this week girl. I finally did it. Melody i confirmed a booking for a vacation you know now that i am vaccinated or at least in two weeks. I'll be fully vacs. I plan a trip to p. town going to town finally making a pilgrimage. Spending a week there with past veronica garza and her girlfriend and we're going during like women's week or dyke week or whatever it's called and i know i don't think they're having it like officially this year so unofficially seems more my speed like i feel like if it was a full on regular week like this. It'd be too many people and too much of a crowd for me but this seems very ideal that is just gonna be vaccinated queers descending on province town for a week of safe fun i feel safer cova wise in a queer area or i just know that a majority of the people who will be in town. We'll be vaccinated compared to myrtle beach. You know other places. I know a lot of people go into mexico. Mike you know the people that have been taking trips to mexico are all of the like anti mask anti vaccine people like. That's what's stopping me from taking a vacation somewhere a little bit more. Let's say is that all of the anti massacres. I see are going to mexico and spreading. Cova there and it's not cool. No i don't wanna be at a resort with them. Sorry but i'm excited about this. And i know it's gonna be coming up. It's memorial day weekend then and i know some of our listeners who are vaccinated are going to be there so i'm excited to rent in two. Y'all and i'm going to see if maybe there's comedy going around. Maybe i can get up on shore so maybe i should hit up judy. Gold cool mayor province town and see if she needs an opener. You have to judy. Gold said to us quote. I love you levies. And i'll never get over that and i think that's grounds for reaching out to her. Yes yes now that she. She loves this lousy here. Actually before the may sixteenth hang. I'm gonna go back to the pink hair. That's going to be the the signal that i'm reemerging into society easily identifiable right right. I'm kind of torn about it. I don't know should melody. i don't know. I personally like your hair. When you got it. Cut the shortest it was. Yeah and the like leftover like. It wasn't hot pink but it was. I guess it was your natural hair color and then like a little bit already have color right. So i'm not for the pink hair but i get like for the brand. I feel like you need your hair back but listen. I love my wife and i don't want her to have to change our logo again. I just don't want to change that. And i feel like all my headshots. Everything is pink hair. And then i come on a show and then i have this more like strawberry blonde type pair but then i also i don't know i look at old pictures. I'm like i miss that. I miss my hair being to my shoulders and being paying. And i'm going to do that again but then i'm like but i did all the work of growing out. Yeah i don't know i liked your covert hair. I really do all right. And i've been getting my haircut shorter and shorter. I really am getting the rosamund bob. Yeah sorry. I can't wait. Maybe an inch longer. But yeah maybe cecilia will after the logo. Yes hey we're coming out of cove it changed. Women are trying out different things. We're evolving or hair's getting gayer. Let's embrace it. Yes but the pink hair for the listeners. Like i could understand them wanting you to diet because you are so easily identifiable like before i knew you just i recognize you at the dyke march from afar. Like your hair. And i hadn't been on the podcast yet. I don't think that's that girl. Like i saw you at washington square park from afar actual right right and i both love and hate that and then i saw your taking outpost. That was like we loved running into our listeners. That was her like after like a month later on the podcast and saw that post. Yeah any listeners. Like i want to see caroline p. town lake. Yeah you're pink hair really helped put a poll on instagram. And maybe that will help me decide of what i do with my hair because cecilia. She actually misses it longer. So i don't know we'll see anyway enough about me malady. I need to know what's the game thing he did this week. Very i'll take weeping throughout the drag race finale for one thousand alec. I wept like. I couldn't stop i. Okay so the finale was last night. The theme of it was friendship. And i don't know if it's because of the very touching moving tribute to lers friends rendition. They did they performed the reference to the aids pandemic and like that against our current pandemic. And then maybe me missing my friends and just marveling at the friendship of this top four drag race. Obviously drag queens can be really like mean a roast each other read each other. It's literally a built in challenge in the competition. The reading challenge leg right. It's it's a snarky show but we've never really seen a top four top three of contestants that have just loved each other so much like they are such good friends. And it's been beautiful to watch and i really think it's like maybe it's going to be opposed cova thing moving forward where there is more of a closeness income rotary between the contestants. Wow i could not stop crying. And i would just think turn to allie and i just kept saying they love each other. They love each other much. That's nice to see that's good lazy. I love that. I have to ask what was in the top four. Okay yes got mic. Did not win okay. Everyone sort of knew simone. Who is i knew from the beginning. Simone win and deservedly so amazing. Inventive like the fashion. The just art coming from this drag queen amazing. I'm so excited to watch their career. And then i wept during mix section. They all did an interview with ru before lip synching for their lives and battling it out and got had a video package from their parents. That was just full of love and support. I started crying at the support from mixed parents. I was crying at the support from paris. Hilton paris hilton said in a sentence. Vignon package because got mic does peres makeup and was actually the first celebrity client got mcgovern. Had they have a relationship beautiful. What didn't i cry. i cry candy muse. One of the contestants is a dominican drag queen from the bronx been through a lot and has a lesbian mom who sent in her video In cried candies. Lesbian mom showing so much love and support and he did a shout out to his mom's and said he wouldn't be where he wasn't was just so grateful for his mom's. I don't cry and when i do. It's so random and this isn't sounded. Stop this lake. I could watch this after only watching clips from the season. Based on things that you've said i was like i wanna see got mixed impression of para sultan and that kind of stuff. But i could watch this finale and probably also be crying the whole time those all sound like beautiful cry worthy moments. I love it. It's weird sobbing and being thrown entertained at the same time. Yeah tv love it. Yeah so good good. That sounds pretty gay. Yeah right yes feelings having feelings. Not bottling them up and drag race which is a reality tv program which gets us into our interview for today so today we are talking about quia reality. Tv with one of the oh gee writers for auto straddle jess rothschild but more importantly jess is the host of the hot takes deep dives podcast which has some phenomenal interviews with di cons and reality tv stars. Let's get into it a jazz. Thank you so much for taking out with us today. We're so excited to have you here. Thank you so much for having me on. I'm honored we love it. Because i feel like you and your interest. It's like if me and melody had a baby. Yes and then. That's you just a lot of cross interests we love it. We can't wait to get into it but before we got to ask. What is the gays thing. You did this week okay. So this ties perfectly into what we're about to talk about your. You may not even believe me but this is absolutely true. So i have to ask a question before. Tell you what the gays thing i did. This week is all right. Did you hopefully both of you in the year. Two thousand one or the year two thousand watch season two of survivor the australian back. Yes did you melody. No i in. The pandemic have been skipping around other seasons and started with like sixteen. Okay but the okay that okay. Good answer did you watch at least all stars or heroes and villains yes heroes and villains all right guys. I need you to sit down. So okay so you know jerry mandy like fucking icon. Yes yes yes. He's on this list. Yeah i know she she. She's and i'm thinking of the wrong person. He's got curly hair. she was deemed. She was dubbed the black widow and like the villain at the original villain survivor. Look up a photo. I'm okay hang up a photo j. r. I m y yes yes. I watched the first two seasons and then like never went to revisit. She had that love hate. Romance sorta romance with colby. Okay yes so. How does this to your gate thing. Okay so. I was obsessed with this check when she was on survivor. And you know a lot of my show is me just sort of. It's a lot of wish. Fulfilment for like who. I was eighteen. Nineteen and like those are the get her. You know a lot of significant in the year two thousand. I would say like ninety eight to two thousand three. Were like the most formative years of my life. And so my pop culture references are squarely in that so i interviewed jerry for for the podcast and we legit became friends like after we stayed on amazon for like two hours after record. Yeah she currently lives. I live in new york as you guys. She now lives and works as a private chef and wine expert in napa valley. Okay wow so. I know separately. I have had these plans to go to palm springs with my best friend from college for a few months at this point and jerry and i talk like day like voice notes text. We've we've made like cocktails over. Facetime is so much. So i stayed with her in napa after palm springs. I flew to napa. And when you guys were contacting me yesterday through. Dm to come on the show. I was literally flying home from staying with jerry. That is the gays thing. I did this week. Yeah oh oh my god. How could i make that up. I mean that's like. I hope people get these references. This is very good. that's amazing. that's so cool. I now now. That i like refreshed. I think was there a playboy. Yes she was so popular. she was on howard stern. Yeah was on the rosie o'donnell show letterman. She was like for a moment in time. She was one of the biggest reality stars out there because she was so hated on survivor. And yes esa. Leon says it's all coming back to me now assures invites yes. She was invited to pose for playboy which she did for like a million bucks back in two thousand one. Oh wow this is one of your routes like like does she know you're in love with. I mean i do start the interview with like literally the first thing out of my mouth is i have loved you forever. She's not the thing is she's not gay but i mean i really know her. Well now i know. Every i mean the thing is she's dating this guy and it's like sorta getting serious but she also like what kind do anything like. If i really feel that. If she wasn't seeing this guy who she's really into we would have hooked up this weekend. Like without like without a doubt in my mind i love it. Oh my gosh. Yeah he's thinking of your life. She's got like the fact that she. She said she had this problem with guys her life like her. She's very strong masculine energy at. Its very threatening jones guys. And i'm like ooh i love that. That's what i i'm one of the rare people that i think that i have that energy and that's what i'm drawn to in in other women. It's hard for me to. It's it's hard for those things to align kind of in the package that you're looking for but you wise like i love her mask like like anyway. It reminds me of that one episode of the l word and was like in the later seasons where they were talking about the lead girls movie and all the different pairings and they have like bat and helena and it's just them like kind of wrestling to to top and that would never happen with survivor too. I feel like one of the pills. Because i i was never other than like the real world and all of that never that into reality. Tv survivor it's like when you strip women that they all feel inherently queer. You know they're all having to use their strength strengthen their wits and play games and stuff and it just makes them all seem queer even elizabeth hasselbeck. It's like you're it's because they're all in like wife beaters armies hands and they obviously aren't worry makeup and they're doing these. I think the survival instincts kick in. So they're not although there. Is this one chick who's like notorious for like this chick. Part poverty hari s. I was waiting for her to be brought. Her gameplay is like flirting with men women would and she is one survivor. Like yeah well speaking of you talking to people that were really important in your formative years. You recently had an episode with my idol. Rosie o'donnell i listened to the interview and just it's like the perfect interview your questions. It was so amazing. You got so many scoops thank you. I loved it. I wish it was ten times as long as like. This is such a great conversation while how was that. Have you have rosie before anything. Never met rosie before okay. I had never met her before. But i knew that. If i took a while by the way to secure on the show and i know all about that i mean rosie is somebody who i grew up watching new rosie before. She even had her show watching the league their own right sleepless in seattle. I was a fan of her. Stand up and there are a lot of parallels between she and i like the long island connection. She grew up a little further out than i did. But i knew that. If i were ever to meet her it would be like meeting a friend from high school and so was she really was like the number one dream guests. Like get to up to see if i could sorta get on the podcast and i was having pretty good luck getting like some bigger names and my best friend was like you know what it was on the heels of i interviewed margaret show who had interviewed before in a previous. I was a writer for this lesbian website. Which we'll get into my history and all that may not even be aware of all that pop culture writer and interviewer for auto straddle dot com. And i helped found that website with the little crew of own an early writer. I know you're one of the found rights. Wow i was there when it launched pretty pretty much day one. Yeah gay mazing gave me and a yacht. Experience like interviewing big people like like two thousand nine during those with them. Maybe three four years through there. I interviewed sandra bernhard. Another dream though like dream. Melissa ferrick everyone from the real l word and i got to interview jennifer beals and laurel holloman from the l word a lot of a lot of people a lot of nain it also margaret show and so when i came back around all these years later and interviewed margaret show again and was able to get other people like reach trach from snl like that was like a really big deal. A few months ago in the fall for me and her cousin planned my first wedding. Very random unbelievable. That's an unbelievable connection but she also wouldn't shut up about her cousin being rachel draft so it was like every time we went to look at the venue. She's like. Oh here's my scrapbook. From when rachel invited me to come watch a taping being god so anyways so a friend of mine planted the seed in my head. He's like one. Why don't you interview rosie and like michael. You have to give me people who are gettable. I can't get to rosy and long story short. I found in in rhode like he planted this idea in my head and it took months took a good five months but it actually happened. And that's the result of what you listen to. And so that's amazing. Yeah whole madonna connection that to like. I knew that. If if i could get her. My goal was to do to do an interview. That's as good as howard stern interviews that she had done like a decade or so ago. He's like a big influence of mine. And he's not gonna spend an hour talking about madonna with her. But i will. I i want to. Oh my gosh so. This is something i often think about like when rosie finally comes on. Like how much do i talk about madonna. How much i bring up. Madonna and i was so glad that you asked about it and the the one store you got about the the tuning about the recording of this playground. God i'm mike. Oh this is so good. This goal and get even getting her to talk about you. Know that that iconic letterman appearance where i don and sandra bernhardt when they were like probably hooking up a little bit who definitely hooking up definitely really knows the true story but like they're talking about going out to the kabi hall so i literally say an interview like. What was your reaction to that. Lit up like a christmas tree. I'm like this woman loves may that was like so early in the interview. I knew at that point. There is just she was like. Oh this is hilarious. Yeah yeah so with. The questions you were asking like is just me. Are we the same person. This is crazy. She's asking everything i want to know. I loved it everybody. I know we're going to plug it at the end but listen to just podcast. It's called hot. Takes deep dives. Yes yes so good especially after we talk about all this reality stuff. People are gonna be dying to listen as well so your background. How did you come to be. One of the founders of auto straddle one of the g. writers. So reese and alex vega and also this chick haviland stillwell who was best friends with res and that the other players like carly used in and her. They've literally remained together this entire time. They're married. That was the original group. And i was a fan of reece's blog before she started started otter straddle she used to write l. word recaps. Yes for her blog and as the l word was ending or maybe it was even the last season she had built this amazing community through her blog. Like comment section like aluminum. It like maybe honestly. In retrospect maybe there were like one hundred people but it felt when maybe honestly talking about one hundred people. Yeah yeah. I remember it because i used to read the recaps on after ellen and so die yeah and then but then i love those so much that i wanted more and that was how i found. Reece's blog as the l word was winding down. She was like what's the next step. Like how do we keep this community that she built based off the ellwood recaps and through that she created austral at which. Now it's like per mutated into something that is no longer what it was but at that specific time period know two thousand nine was when it was founded. It was just the perfect expression of her writing really. I really felt in tune with my personality like sort of cynicism. These chicks were all based in new york. I was like i connect. And i want to see what i can do for the site. I had never. I was always a good writer like in high school and stuff but never wrote about pop culture. My real career was intact like web design. So that's initially what. I pitched myself as i met them like out at an event and i was like. Hey i'd love to do work on your site. you know. at that time. I was like a web designer graphic designer. Like i would love to do stuff. Meanwhile i wound up. Never doing anything technical for them. And i think in before i even like sort of given my first assignment i was like oh wait. I have a really good idea to cover whatever it was. I think somebody whenever like someone gay was on the howard. Stern show i would recap the the appearance and i would record the audio and upload the audio i did it for all of rose's appearances all like at that time. Sandra bernhard was guesting a ton. Yeah i love it too. Because like howard. Stern is thought about as being just like this. Very hetero normative thing for dudes. But i got really into howard stern in my late teens and early twenties because it was like one of few places at the time where you could hear people talking about gay stuff weirdly enough and he would just ask the question he would. Yeah questions yeah. It wasn't taboo there. And you had robin also and i'll tell you through my little niche of friends particularly that i had during that era so many people listen to my good friends. Like i'd be like do you listen to howard. And they're like oh. I'm obsessed like wendy. Williams was a regular guest and like that was very compelled also sort of influenced by her. Just the sort of we'll say anything. Yeah i will really ask anything if i want the answer. If i'm curious. I will find a way to go there in a way that is satisfying for me and therefore the audience but also makes the guest feel safe and comfortable and i never take things out of context it. You're listening to the full. The transitions within the interview road. Anyway that was how. I became a writer was i kept having these ideas and then eventually. Oh my god okay. You'll appreciate this because you used to re after ellen you remember when they do l. word video blogs like video reenactments of the episodes. I vaguely remember it. Who was doing that. Remind me you'll bennett. Okay and then. Two of her friends were doing it and then she started. They had they started like these little web series within after all again. This is all the year like two thousand nine. Two thousand ten. Jill bennett was the breakout star of doing those greek. They were recaps is what they really worth the forefront of this whole recapping industry and all of that right. She became a huge. I mean like celebi and like like in the day like she was like the most famous lesbian. That's not porsche or allen or an actual celebrity. She's a celebrity to like two hundred lesbians feldman to me on the perfect example at all to straddle so maybe like the following year or maybe a few months go by we get invited to sponsor this lesbian cruise it was called the sweet crews and we basically were there as press and jill and her girlfriend. This woman kathy di bona fide therapist. She really came at stuff from like a psychological angle. People would write in questions. And i was very drawn to her as well. And they wound up getting together right before this cruise that we were going on. Which by the way the performers on this cruise appre snl. Kate mckinnon julie goldman from the the big shiite her would move onto bravo. And get things on there right erin. Foley performed suzanne western hoffer like a lot of these great pizzas. Yes an amazing highlight. Meanwhile cut to me the day before the cruise. I'm sitting down that i'm like. They had just left after allen which was a huge scandal. These were like the golden scarred. And i sat down on like i'm gonna get the story of why they left after ellen and resources like you do you baby like they. They weren't as passionate about that celebi and culture. As i was like i was so in the weeds and they weren't talking to anybody and so that was how i initially met them was literally on the open seas. We were like mexico. And i just. You know endured myself to jill and cathy. Who was her girlfriend. i said i'd really love to interview. They were like oh we love auto straddle we would love to do something with the is and i said. Will you talk to me about. Why left after ellen. They thought about it. Let's do it. And i did this interview. Meanwhile i recorded on a little audio recorder back in the days. I was transcribing everything because it's written website. You and i got the full story and like young lou up within like the little lesbian community and from there on. I exclusively did interviews. I was like oh. This is my wheelhouse. This is my wheelhouse. Do you remember shelley right the country. Yes star yeah. It was the last thing we did before the pandemic was. We went to go see her. It sitting vineyard and we got to meet her afterwards and we thought that we were going to want to get her on. We thought we were going to have her. Do one of our live shows and perform on our live shows and she was like and the pandemic it. And we're like well. I guess we'll table. That i interviewed her two thousand ten. Let's say that was a big year for her. You can meet with two thousand twelve. I know you can google. That interview went viral. It was picked up. She said something. I don't even remember so. Many years have passed but she said something in that interview that went onto go truly viral like it was picked up and we were ling's like auto shuttle is linked with quote. She said rolling stone dot com like every outlet. Maybe even people like every single. And and that was when i kinda was like. There's something here like i. Kind of you know i left auto straddle and then all these years later i fell into podcasting through a completely different route through the how i eventually became a huge housewives fan and i started was clapping on a podcast and then eventually like started hot takes deep dives. Which is truly the blend of everything i was doing on auto straddle with the bravo. Housewives leans very heavy into that. But i also interviewed people like rosie o'donnell and right margaret show and drag people that have nothing to do with broad what i find an angle. That right i do ton of madonna stuff. Just anything that. I and it really is. The perfect marriage of caroline's like interests don't know if you can tell like behind me right now. I have to throw pillows. One is all of madonna's different outfits from like ki- music videos and tours and the other one is rosie o'donnell picking her nose. I'm dying matt is amazing. It feels like it was meant to be. 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Her most epic with samsung galaxy gifts like their most advanced smartphone camera. So mom can take photos. Like a pro. a smartwatch. Next level fitness tracking samsung's best earbuds yet to help on block out and turn up or the statement making galaxy flip five g that lets mom flex her style. This year celebrate. What makes mom epic with samsung galaxy. Well we went through your personal journey with interviewing. I want to know about your journey to three reality. Tv you said you got into housewives. Initially was that kind of your gateway. No no no. No no. No no or looks survivor. That's true. yeah so yeah talk. I wasn't no no no. I wasn't even a huge survivor fan. I just love jerry mantha. No literally this weekend. When i'm like alone with her in her house for two days i was like you not like i watched your season of survivor. I was at gerry fan. I was not. I mean survivor's a great show but that's not you know the real world was my entry into the world of reality tv show like changed my life. Yes let's talk about it. What were your favorite seasons. Your favorite cast members genesis from the real world. Boston was like pivotal. She will not do podcast because she quote hates the sound of her voice. Wow that's good to know because she's also been on my list. She's not gonna do it. She won't she. And i've had other. I've interviewed a lot of real worlders. Who are friends with her. And they've asked on behalf and like she she told me we'd like dm then she's like. I don't even do podcasts of like people who are like in the. I gotta wear her. I gotta find another way. She does it after. Listen to it if she doesn't like her voice. Just don't listen to it. That's the point. And with your genesis with you. So yeah i would say genesis. Danny roberts from the real world new orleans guy. Dating the guy in the military during don't ask don't tell his is always blurred. yep That was like conic like at the time like i loved him. I loved watching him. And i did him on the show and he was amazing. I remember rachel. Robinson and veronica from like the challenge like road rules the challenge. I i love to the challenge. Yeah yeah you know. she's net. Rachel is now a barry's bootcamp instructor in miami. I've taken her class. Oh my gosh. i love that. Well speaking of boston. Did you ever feel that montana read is queer. I loved monty. She was like chaotic bisexual to my that. You brought montana into this conversation. It was obsessed because this was like a little quiet remain. But there's something about like montana that i'm very drawn to and i feel like she'd make out with me at a party. I don't know remember. Her boyfriend's name was the j. von. She likes badge. I loved her. I also loved. Listen san francisco with pedro brand and all of them in judd the cartoonist i had mohammed on from the real world san francisco recently and he was amazing the way he was able to communicate. Just how significant. Pedro was all these years later. That recently came out. It was a different time then too because there wasn't any other reality. Tv so you just have the real world. That's why years later when you say like. Oh yeah veronica. I'm yes. I know exactly. Who that is. I remember all the details. You know who. I loved anita member neil. An isa chicago right loved her. Yeah i was way. And i was into her vibe. But like into her energy she stuck with me. I remember when she said that she was bisexual but could only see her self marrying a man. And i'm like got to unpack that internalize. How marrying a man she yeah. She was like very gay. But obviously had some internalized homophobia that she was like wasn't able to shed yet so she said something along the lines of like she's like very interested about just being with women but like she can't see herself ending up with one. I'm like that's because the society and isa just get rid of that. Yeah we're each of your favorite seasons in favorite people. I left seattle. I mean boston and seattle but seattle for me was one of my favorite seasons. It was my first to seattle. Seattle's iconic i mean they're all iconic but the somewhere more economic than others. Tell me why you love seattle. I don't know something about the characters on it and i'm just. They worked at a radio station. Stephen and the slap with irene cevennes slap with irene was a there is something also about that. You know he's out now. Yes yes but at the time. I thought that that was so like i had liked irene so much until she said because you're a homosexual and i thought she was saying it as like an insult and now i'm like oh she was just like she's being honest she was being honest. And she's like you have all these problems. 'cause you're you're closeted and you're angry and don't take that out on me and in some way she trying to help him. Actually yeah came out. Were not the most delicate way to do it right right but you wait. Here's some insight. T so i was dying to get irene on the podcast and this is like we're coming up on like a year now of me like win her. I mean it's it's unbelievable. How in what universe do i get. Rosie o'donnell but i can't get irene from right no like seriously like this. Is my life like this is literally my life. But anyway so i was emailing with her. She's like yes. I would love to do it. There was back and forth and back and forth and then she was moving. I'm currently ghosted. I may have to follow up with a fresh email. Because she was she was saying yes. Reach out again. yeah irene. I really liked. David met years later. I met when i was in college in boston. And i went out to this lounge where they were having like this real world like you know how they'll hire people just to be there in order to draw crowd and it was real world night at this lounge and they had david and tanya in one other person. I can't remember but it was tiny from chicago. Walla walla walla washington. Yeah novitiate kidney stones in the used to call her walla walla kidney stones. Yeah so. I got there and i was at the bar sitting next to tanya and in my mind i was like i'm gonna pretend like i don't know who she is like. She's just anybody and then she was kind of like suspicious of me rightfully so we made like some small talk. It gets more crowded and this is me. I'd never really like interacted with a celebrities before david's there. The dance floor is kinda bump and he's just sitting to the side kind of watching. And i just went up to him. I was like do you wanna dance. And he's like you know what sure so they're like dancing with david from seattle. My mind is like this is crazy to have this moment. And then i went up to tanya because drunk and i said hey can i take a body shot off you. Oh my god and she was like eah hold on let me get my crew so this camera crew comes in and they were shooting some type of like of like real world people outside of the show. I don't know where this. Dvd exists. But there's video somewhere of tanya being like. Here's a real boston bitch about to do a body shot off me and i like underage. I love Anyway that yeah. Those are my real world stories I was a little too young challenges right acquainted with them and i was really attracted to ruthie. I remember ruthie on the allstars challenge right now. Yeah jenny she's all my gosh man. I really romanticized like any anything brooding troubled right. So i just like gravitated so hard to ruthie and then i had experience with the real world physically i was i had a roommate when real world brooklyn was filming in two thousand eight summer. Two thousand eight. I was living with a lesbian pop punk band. For sub summer subway and one of the band members invited one of the real world cast members to join the band. It was just for a story line and caused so much drama in the apartment because the lead singer was like so upset. All the attention was being taken from her. The real world really made. It seem like she was a permanent new band member. It caused a huge briefed in the band and department. But yeah i was dealing with real world cameras like in my brooklyn loft just watching it all. Go down so yeah. The real world was like my entry point and then as far as reality. Tv and then and then like along the way. You know. kim stolz on america's next top model As she would go on to open dalloway with from the real l word yes the big falling out. Did you go to the dow away. Of course. I ask so many people if they went to the dalloway and like nobody like none of the guests. I don't know it was. It was actually really nice. It was the nicest it closed like. In a very short. I interviewed kim stolz and so that episode. And she tells the whole story and especially like the real word connection with a man because they were really close and had a falling out. So that'll be out next month or something. Oh my gosh all yeah. It's really good. Yeah kim just got married recently. Yeah i did the interview at their house in the hamptons. So i met the while. She's gorgeous. she's beautiful amazed at the wife at the dogs met. At all the dalloway it was great. I thought it was something just to do with the ranch because it was in tribeca because they said they were gonna open up there. So i kept waiting for the dow away to reopen but it will no idea the thing was that they had no experience. Okay the truth of the situation is these were to rich kids who had no experience in the service industry in the restaurant industry and i think they had a third investor to refresh my memory but for listeners. Out there who want to know the full story you'll get it. Yes subscribe to my show and it's coming. I cannot wait because it was such a beautiful space and it has such a great vibe and when it closed it was literally the only nice lesbian bar restaurant yeah. It was the nicest one i've ever been to. It was so great. Kim souls on america's next top model which apparently on that show we had sarah harsher on. Who was one of the the plus size models and i think she was the second one and she was like yeah. Everybody was bisexual on the show. Their kim told me that there was another. There was a closeted contestant on her season. And i think the producers were like. We can't have two lesbians on this show right and also she was closeted but they wound up hooking up like late like the off season there. There there's some juice their. Yeah but yeah but then i would say once bravo got going like the early days of bravo truly is the golden age of television and very gay super. I mean now. We're talking like jackie warner workout. And tabitha from you. Know sheer genius. Tabitha takes over and very gay. That was when kathy griffin was the face of the network non andy cohen brand. Kathy skewed very gay and would have melissa ethridge and rosie on her show on my life on the d list and so that was so integral in this is like the housewives like really hadn't quite started yet and then housewife started. Maybe like two thousand eight two thousand nine right. Yeah and i feel like that's when i jumped ship when it. Yeah i've never watched an episode of housewives. Not even the brandy glenville stuff i sent you. Oh you watched clips. I've watched the class had a lesbian storyline. And that's what i sent. Her young wouldn't just send her brandi glanville content unless it was relevant. Because i don't like her. I'm gonna give you the cliff notes version of this denise richards from wild things yes she fucked another cast member housewives of beverly hills then was denying it and denied and denied it and it all got out and there was it happened and she was so freaked out that she left the show right. I realized she left the show. Oh yeah and the show. No i learned this from your podcast. I was just listening to an episode here podcasts. And it was like something about like that all blowing up after they stopped shooting and they like did the pickups afterwards to include it in the season the denise talking to lisa renna. Oh yeah after the holidays and yeah they do. I know it literally you so tell me so melody. Tell me your real housewives journey. What was your entry point like. What are your favorite season. Who your favorite wives. Let's i mean you've any reference leah mcsweeney like big lesbian energy there. I mean energy energy like masculine energy so like combative aggressive tummy. So my sister was a huge reality. Tv fan. I was kind of resistant like in the layoffs loved the real housewives of new jersey and that was the first one i've seen but kind of peripherally right i really didn't i fell off with bravo towards actually one house lies like popping off. I'd only jersey in. Its early formed. And then i moved in with a gay male roommate. That'll do it. And i've got into new york. That's before the gay roommate. I was like that was my first. Like i'm doing this on my this bethany. I run or when bethany came back. Oh i started from the beginning. So i always start from the beginning. I can't just jump in good girl. The so and in this pandemic i've watched atlanta from the beginning i've watched potomac from the beginning. Potomac is amazing. Yeah but like originally. It was like i can't i. It's too much so i'm just going to new york. And then i caught up within record time. Within a few months i'd watched all of new york and then i was getting into the gossip of it all then. I was listening to bitch session. I was like well. I want to know what everyone else. So i got into. I moved in with this gay man and he was like you have to watch beverly hills. You have to watch. Mary medicine like he watches all of it. Then yeah it was beverly hills and then i kind of went off on my own. This was like four. You're within the last four years. I've watched all of them from the beginning and i'm obsessed so in your perspective i mean i know it ebbs and flows. It's all you know. It's all very fluid experience. But presently in twenty twenty one which franchise do you think is in the best shape currently and also historically like overall. Like at the sum of the parts which franchise. If someone's like where should i start. Where should i start own. Yeah so gimme those two. I wanna know your favorite like you're gonna say potomac but then you brought in historical context. I think after last season was really good television. I don't think it's worth watching the first three seasons. I think you started season. Three c. truly understand the giselle karen friendship right to are just like throw away. But i can't not watch him. So when i recommend to people i'm always just watch it from the beginning. It's also good. Because i love bad reality. Even when it's bad. I love it so much so right now. Potomac is my favorite okay because of that historical context. I'm going to have to move to. I would say roni but last season. Let me down a little bit. You and i are on the same page here. Yeah yeah real. Housewives of new york is iconic right real housewives of new york the seasons when bethany came back yes. The bethany and carol season the falling out. Would you if you're interested in the intricacies of female friendships. I recommend to your audience that they seek out season ten of the real housewives of season. The best season of any house. Go to cartagena yes. I'm intrigued so good i have. I have goosebumps. That is the best that season emmy worthy. I've cried laughing so many times. I actually recently rewatch that season a couple of months ago when i was feeling down at just it lifts me. Whose side are you on. Bethany or carol. The first time around. I was on carol side unpopular opinion. I talked about. I gave my unpopular opinions. All the time when i talk about this stuff and i love beth one for life yet. I am not delusional. Same thing with madonna. These two people are like my number one for life and yet i can see the truth that they are obnoxious annoying. Oh yes sometimes. It's like get off instagram. Delete the account however bethany is the best one to ever do reality tv. She's so good here yet. I'm team carol. I believe carol more than i believe. Bethany side of the story. I know i used to be like i'm a carol. Moon like bethany rising had masculine. Will they both did. Yeah and that's why. I loved their relationship so much and they were the most grounded of the cast members. What i get from melanie talking about it. Melody keeps insisting that it's just so queer and that intense female friendships are inherently queer. When you add that layer of intensity the jealousy they go through with each other the the just such fierce attachments there that are so inherently queer to me. I can't imagine a lesbian wouldn't wanna watch it. Yes i can but especially when there's conflict that i realized that they are so gay like these. Two women like bethany. Carol were best friends for seasons on the show and then they have this falling out and it all plays out on camera. And then you've got bethany franken. Who's like the rich. This woman is making like two million dollars a season. Like she's running empire she speaking and she is hysterical crying on camera sobbing that she doesn't have a relationship with carol anymore. Right if that's not gay. I don't know what is right. i mean you have. The overt gain is to whenever they get the make out when they're drunk they'll go to bluestone manner and they'll make out. Wait remember win bethany. Carol i were becoming tight on the show. Carol comes to her. There's a scene. I think it's like season seven or season. Eight like sorted just met and there's a scene where like they're eating lunch and carroll says to her. I had a sex dream about you last night. Oh my god do you remember that. No i've seen the season so many times so all right there we should remember that because seasons seven and ten. I love so much. Do you think she's lying. I think that's a common lie. That people tell i have sex dream about you. In order to put feelers out at the convoy go and oh that's so funny. I think she was okay. I've seen people do that. Before as like a moo or like sometimes people will post like the dm. Oh like someone just sent me this weird message. I think it's a lie and they don't know how else to like. Let you know that they're potentially interested potentially interested. And then that's the way to gauge. The reaction is the person. Like ooh or are they like ill gross. Don't worry about me. that's a really good tactic. I've never used that in my real life. i'm somewhat newly well my year newly single and so that's a good. Thank you keep that in mind. Yeah thank you that scene. I just googled sex stream bethany. Carol i remember now because i remember bethany face. She's holding a spoon she goes. Did we go downtown said man. I'm get this as a follow up to that would something. It makes rods while even more gay. Her best friend is this woman cassandra gray. She was married to this really really big hollywood bigwig who died like a few years ago. Cut to cassandra gray colorado's best friend. She's been in a relationship for. At least two years with samantha. Ronson look my god is all over instagram. you see carol. with samantha. ronson happy birthday. Just it's all there. You're welcome. I'm going to need you to send like the best or just like those type of accounts to follow caroline's aces just like she's like any of these. People are really interesting while you sit. Ronson carol reds. Well you might know. She is a princess. She was best friends with jfk junior and his wife that died in the plane car. Okay yeah i mean. I kind of know who. These people are definitely definitely bethany because she became so big on bravo and all of a sudden there. Were like all these things about her. My who is this person. I say who she is but she's still kind of like i'm like oh she's just like reality. Tv i don't know why or how show coming up to yes. Oh bethany separated. Herself from bethany is the most successful person to ever come out of reality. Tv i would say like she was the one create a brand that actually like the skinny girl. Margarita looks grateful that yes her but then you had expanded into all these different sub brands. She's the most successful coming out of it. She was on shark tank as a judge. She's about to have her own. Hbo max show premieres this week. Actually it's like the apprentice and she's in the trump slash martha stewart role. Yeah looking for a director of operations with bethany looks terrifying. Thinks she is the most successful to come out of it. I think candy burs is the most successful who already was successful. yes man. I'm rewatching jersey from the beginning. Because why not. And i'm in the seasons with rosie. The i like actual lesbians on housewives and it's wild man. We wait melody you know. It's so funny texted before my interview came out. I texted a few people in my life. Who follow the podcast. And they're like real friends of mine because most of my friends do the show. And i was like. You're not going to believe this. i got rosie. And they're like. Oh my god. That's that's great. And they thought i was talking about fucking rosie from new jersey from new jersey. I was like no asshole. O'donnell the rosie. Yeah read what. Rosie wok healy. Okay yeah she was the sister of a real housewives of new jersey early cast member. And it's so much like it's a lot of the men unreal. House is in new jersey. You have way more of the husbands involved in the story lines and you have a lot of the men just like. Yeah so we could talk about boobs right and just like all this creepy lay creep it on girls in public but there's one scene i never forgot about where rosie's railing against Strap ons you remember. I don't remember. She's drunk at a bar going. I mean why the hell would i ever get a strap on if if a girl wants. What the hell is she doing with another girls. You obviously want to be with absurd so funny but i actually think the modern quote unquote straight housewives of our current seasons are gayer than rosy like. They're just so gay to mike leah. Mcsweeney likely screening like porsche from the real housewives of atlanta. Well she's just so she's chaotic by to me. I love her. I love her so much. Have question when the seasons happen. How much do these women know each other ahead of time or are they a lot of them meeting for the first time on the show. A lot of them are meeting for the first time on the show but usually the way it all started. They were real friends. Okay hassle group of real friends but like ten years later right. Do you watch summer house. What's that best show on best show. It's better than any housewife show. Highly recommend summer house. You gotta start at season three okay. I'm writing this down because that's one where it's like. I don't know if i can start another bravo show from the very. Big industry shuffles some. Og stay and they add new cast members and there are gay. Male cast members on summer house. So there's some interesting sexuality stuff. Okay yeah i heard. There's like a closeted gay guy yes listen. There's a whole journey. You need to understand who lindsay hubbard is. She is the queen of bravo right now. You need this woman. I would jump in front of a bus for lindsay albert. This this woman was born to be on reality. Tv are you like all in on bravo. Because he says no no. Most of it is terrible. These days. I'm giving you the few things that i think. Most of it is not good the selects because because like tv now now it's on like streaming. There's so many shows you're talking about summer house. i'm like i haven't even heard of that one. I'm just trying to keep up. It's been on for five years. Yeah there's about off winter house that's crazy. Yeah maybe because. I don't have cable is why i don't and i don't watch bravo so i don't hear about them but i do hear about the streaming shows that are in the zeitgeist and i feel like i have. I watched love is blind because everybody on twitter about it. I'm like i guess. I have to watch this. I'm like oh why that's the word on bravo. I mean i think just currently summer house is the best thing i mean it. Just it just be the reunion and then we're about to start with new york and beverly hills. I think beverly hills is going to have a really great season. And i think new york is going to feel the same way it did last season. Because there's no anchor with bethany gone and arinda gone and even tinsley gone like. I grew to like really like tinsley with them. Gone where we going like. At least we have a woman of color now and then we're going to see an old cast member comeback. Oh yeah was called the karen by leeann. Mcsweeney is like older. Feels like hanging out with your old aunts as leah mcsweeney says we have some original cast members who have been there since the beginning. Who are you know getting older and older. And they're starting to bring in girls in their thirties and last season it was especially weird because there was just one girl in her thirties and the rest were literally like in their fifties sixty. Yeah yeah Ramona singer while but she just ages down. Sounds like my ideal hang out. Terrible person but looks amazing. Yeah bravo like mtv. Those are like cable reality shows. And then it's obviously. The representation is lacking on network shows. We had like the bachelor. We have colton who just came out. We had bachelor in paradise couple years ago. I don't know if you're a bachelor okay. Like what's more impactful having queers on network or cable because i would like to see more queer representation network reality tv. But i think they because of advertisers and everything involved. They can't be that gay or like they can't really go there. So then i gravitate. Towards the cable reality queers. I think it's all impactful. Yeah vaga and eventually they all fall into the instagram machinery like all roads lead to instagram followings and followings on social media becoming an influence like i don't think it really matters the road that gets you there were i mean. I think the fact that there hasn't been a gay lesbian housewife missing a gold mine of content. I mean the drama with the partner and the friends and there's a show. I mean really. The primitive version of it was the real l word but do it. Now let's do it with like a really successful late thirty something early forty something. Let's see what that's like an and they've never even had a gay male you know. There's been talk. Should there be a gay male housewife. And andy says that will be the next frontier. But like tick tock like happening right. Man yeah. I mean on a show like housewives. I'd be interested in that but like on some of these dating shows. I don't know where. I like to see my career is i'm reality. Tv is like the great british baking show. I'm mike this is a great environment for me to see queer people because they're all like likable and they're not made to be like crazy or this character. There aren't like producers forcing them to act. Insane where i watched before we started recording an episode and not even the full episode of. Are you the one because our listeners. Keep asking i've heard of that. What what is the what i understand. Is that people go on the show. They do all these interviews and everything and on the show. Each person is paired with match. But they're not told who that is and they have to figure out who is there like psychologically ideal match and then they have a season where everybody is queer their fluid and gender fluid in their sexuality and just watching the opening of it. I'm like a well. None of these women like for me. I don't know i'm not like there's something about it that just seems like so reality tv About it like this one girl. She's like i'm bisexual. Which means i love both genders male and female. And it's like whoa. What year was this like. We're we're past like only two genders reaching your are that it was just weird and i'm like i don't know if i want to watch this like i know it's super queer but it just seems like it's going to be problematic and not relatable like i can't really any of this i'm going to check it out. It's on mtv yeah. I tried to find the queer season though on. mtv. And i couldn't find you have to rent it. Which is why. I've been putting it off. Watch the first episode for free. It just has commercial here. Okay got it. Yeah 'cause net flicks starting to roll out that show but they only have the first and second season i think yet season a audit is the one that's queer so yeah it's like certain shows like remember teela tequila hubbell right and i'm like this isn't the queer representation i want. Have you had any of the people from the real l word on your show as guest. No because i never got into the real. Our didn't i didn't like it at all and it was very your audience would love it. Yeah i think so. I feel like i have to give it another chance now. I think at the time. I was just like one upset that it wasn't the i was just want more of the l word and this is nothing like the l word. Yeah i don't know something about it was was off putting for me but i know that there are some people that a lot of people are fans of they lake. What did you think of the l. Were generation q the reboot. I mean i'm i watch it. And i'm gonna obviously watch the next season. It's it's a little bit all over the place. They had ten storylines going for seven. So when. I'm ready storylines so you can't do that. There are some new characters. I don't care at all about. I don't care about any of the new characters like i only interested in like my old friends right. Yeah it does seem though that tina is going to be more present this time. Okay can i give you a hot take my prediction yeah okay. I think they're going to have button. Tina f probably at the end of the season so rosy is playing tina's fiance in. I predict they're obviously going to bring up rosie's only filmed three episodes. So that right there are going to break up and laurel holloman has continued to film. I guarantee you okay. Spoiler alert but i'm just making it up guarantee you. The finale is going to be abedin. Tina like maybe they'll be like a kiss at the end of that and it's like my daughter these two assholes again even though i love and i watched the whole thing for them like name it's gonna be like. Oh my god twenty years later. We're still doing this. I know i know. I know but when it works it works. The funny thing is a lot of our friends actually auditioned for the new season. And tell me they read the script. What script like the pilot script for generation cube at the original one and there have been a lot of changes since the original script and what was actually shot for the pilot and the original pilot was so mean to tina and i think they really had like whoever was involved in that had no intention of like maybe bringing tina back. It was just like the whole attitude was tina's this like absent parent. She kinda sucks. She's kind of like the butt of jokes sometimes like if she does appear in the pilot and then they kind of change it to like you know she wants to go live with tina instead of bad and tina's just like chill and has the together and comes in and kind of makes everything but i don't know so i'm like maybe there's just like a very anti tina person and then they were gone okay. I suspect that the writer. Marcia whatever her name she probably heated tina or something like that like some of the writers probably really didn't like that character originally and when are three girls when jennifer beals cape manege and lisa haley who are co executive producers. Got ahold the script. They are huge. Tina fans especially jennifer beatles. That's like a whole character right right. We're like no no for any of this work. Have to lead. Ben and tina so clean up your act like get over it and get into it. Yeah that was probably the case. Yeah baby 'cause. I screamed when pena's came back. I didn't see that coming based on what i yeah hosted a watch party. Everyone screamed amazing. Yeah so so talk more about the the real word. Like what did i miss. Why should i revisit. The real l word like you're talking about like gay representation like this is the only show. That was all lesbian. It's really it right. Yeah it now. For all lesbian rotation terms of a reality show there's the elway and then the real l word but did you feel like it did it in a in a good light or was it like regular reality. Tv were seems like these women are terrible. I don't want to be friends with any of them. I would never want to date any of them. Okay so there are like with any show there are. It's a mixed bag of characters. And the cast changes like over the years but they kept one lead girl. She evolves a quite a bit over. The third one is that whitney winnie. Okay yeah. I didn't like whitney at first. So she really evolved third seizinger like. Oh my god. This is like a completely different human being like she really grew ally lot and even now if you follow her on social media do right well yes. There are people in the first season who you will like like tracy and steamy. They're still together all these years later. They're still together. They had a baby. Nikki and jill have two kids the others. I don't really keep up with but yes there are. I definitely recommend it. If you're craving that representation in particular reality is it is such this. You feel like you know these people. Because they're not acting they're given a script. They're just like these. This is legit dating. And they're still together twelve years later clearly. It's real know. okay. I need to revisit it. Because clearly i'll watch like i just watched the two episodes of mortgage or marriage just because people are like there's two lesbian episodes on it. I'm like oh. Let's make sure. I'll i'll street and i really enjoyed. It sounds like carolyn. Your homework is you. Watch the real. L word melodies. Sounds like your homework is start season three of summer house and it will be very fulfilling like these shorter seasons. This isn't like very long seasons and the fifth season just ended. So you don't have too much to this. Isn't like a rony journey for you of like fifteen right right. Could you make the case for reality tv for resistant listeners. Yet here's my case. I think when it's done well and you have when he does it. All hinges on the cast it lives or dies based on the half and how authentic the cast is willing be and in some shows you got some cast members who are bleeding out for the camera. They're giving it literally everything. They're being truly authentic. Of course there's some cast members where it's they're not really being authentic but when it gels and they finally get casting right. That's why. I say started season three because that's when it gels. They're you're going to go through real life issues with these people like bethany. Franco's boyfriend died of a drug overdose and you saw her go through the grieving process. F- characters fall in love and there'd be people who are together and maybe there's a cheating thing and some of that. I'm always a little skeptical of. I'm always like did they've really cheat or is this like i. Storyline like sometimes i don't. I never tend to believe that somebody cheated. But that's just my own whatever but you get really attached that he sometimes they just strike gold with somebody like like leah mcsweeney or a lindsay people who were born to do reality tv and it can be just like the highest of highs. It can because it's things that no writer could right right exactly yeah. That's it do you because you're in this unique position where you get to talk to some of these people that you've watched for seasons do find there to be a disconnect between what you see on screen and the sense of than that you get when you speak to them directly or is it pretty true. So i've interviewed a lot of housewives former housewives like old real housewives of new york like all the probably all the ones. We're no longer on the show. And they are all still clearly traumatized by what happened to them and it still kind of haunts them and they're not really over it. They didn't heal the way they were supposed to. Or they still need therapy or something. So i've experienced that. And i can tell just by doing an interview with them. The ones who are currently on it. Like i just interviewed somebody from summer house. This girl who. I keep saying like you know made for reality exactly the way. She is portrayed. It was lazy interviewing with confessionals. She was exactly who she is. And yeah i've really had that experience people who are still currently on the reality shows they love it. They love being a housewife. They love being a reality star kardashian. Yeah i think the issue start when they get fired and then the resentment comes and then it's i wasn't portrayed correctly and it depending on what circumstances they left on there is psychological trauma. And there's damage done. That is on them to heal from like somebody like a kelly bensimon. Oh my god she just put out some. I know how many years later this real house new york cast member. Yeah it's been years and years since he's been on the show and she just like this last week. Put out something that was like. Here's what really finding something that happened in like season. Three whereabouts literally season thirteen. And i think there's so much to learn by watching people because at the end of the day we all see ourselves in some shape or form you will identify at some point with one of these people and you will see your own reflection a little bit and the way you react to that person. You may hate them. It's because you're seeing a character trait you have being played out and it may not be something you like about yourself and that is fascinating. Yeah real reality tv. Who's that person for you that you relate to. Oh that's really great question. Maybe there's a flavor of bethany that i relate to something that i don't like about myself is like i can be i have like controlling tendencies and when i see that i can see her trying to control the situation and it makes me uncomfortable but i came recognize. That's because the then tells me like relax a little. You don't wanna be psycho bethany like in these. Like height super heightened situations. So i mean. I really i really have to think more about it. But that's the first one that comes to mind. Let me know. I wanna know your son moon and rising housewives. That's such a fun game. Sun moon and right. Well i know my real life ones. Obviously we'll take those two. I'm a leo sun. Sagittarius moon capricorn. Rising love it. We're both capricorn's so i would say my rising sign is bethany. Yeah to start. I would say to my moon sign would probably be like carol rodwell. Yes same 'cause like she's very like independent and like fly by the seat of her pants and doesn't really want to hold onto any like attachment like in certain ways super earthy super earthy. My son might actually also be carol. Not that i'm that i was. I was in a very very same long term relationship. But i was also very independent in that. I'm version of carol that if carole got into a very serious relationship and was still able to maintain her sense of independence and freedom. Like i was able to play that out in real life. And maybe there's some to render in there for some reason. I'm only speaking to new york. Because i really identify with two. Yeah i think that's a really great question. I think i'm gonna watch. It's a very fun game to play. Those are my gut reaction. Yes but i do know that i come off as bethany that i know for sure as i am bethany rising whether we like it or not. Yeah that is literally mind. I've always said carol for moon and bethany rising and then i've been like alternating over this last year between caroline heather gray from salt lake city. Oh that's funny. Thank you for indulging. Now this was so fun. I love that jazz. Where can people follow you on social media and of course your podcast shore. Yes so the podcast is called the hot takes and deep dives. You can find it. Everywhere a podcasts. My instagram is jess x. nyc and. that's where i mean. That's like my personal account. So it's a lot of me if you want to see what i will look like but i also do promote. I've got videos of you know the rosie interview video of you know. I started phil. I never used to record the video. Yeah and well. They used to do it in person. But now that it's all over zoom super easy record so rosie was the first one that i i'm like you know what i'm going to record this. I feel like i'm gonna want to promote this in a certain way and ever since then i've been recording and i've got like the dig back in the i interviewed giniger schon. I know that's on my list of wants to listen to the thanks so much. Just thank you. This was great and a delight. Melanie i guess we should stop. Plotting our quest to be best friends with jess in real life and get to our listener question. I mean fine. But i will resume that right after this episode right this week's listener question my close friends boyfriends best friend. Oh why are you following realize it was that removed so yeah my close friends boyfriends best friend and roommate is super homophobic transphobic problematic for example says things like gay people need to be shot. Well that's a little bit problematic. I'd say that's a touch problematic cheese. It's hard to imagine that her boyfriend has a problem with this because they're best friends and i wonder if he might share those same views. Because of this. I don't want to meet him when she confronted him. He said he didn't know and not to take his friend seriously. I have no idea how to proceed. Here should just suck it up and give her boyfriend the benefit of the doubt. I would never just ask her to end a relationship. She was happy in. But i'm feeling so many conflicting emotions here understandably. Wow yeah very understandable so just to be clear you have a good friend. She has a boyfriend. The boyfriend has a best friend slash roommate. The roommate that is spouting off all the homophobic transphobic all lives matter stuff. This was a longer email that we had paraphrase but there were a lot of examples that it's like this guy is totally trash so you have to wonder if you're going to be best friends with someone like that. Are you also just okay with those views or just being like dude and you don't talk about that. I shouldn't say that dude stereotype dudes but but that kind of dude where that dude that dude where you don't talk about stuff and that you're you know because of your seeming white male privilege. Uh oh yeah just. This is a white purse able to like not even here or not even pick up that. This guy is problematic. Because he's your bro and he makes you laugh and whatever. That's the frustrating situation. I've i've had a situation where like one of my good friends was dating. A guy and the boyfriend himself was like pretty conservative and i was also in this situation sometimes when i lived in in georgia but i wouldn't. I mean saying gay. People need to be shot. That's a little bit extreme. Yeah me personally. I wouldn't mind being around the boyfriend. I would never want to like meet. The room may if i had to meet the boyfriend like. I don't think anything's bad is going to happen. And if anything like maybe the boyfriend will get along and then maybe the fuck up and be like. Oh it's actually really fucking messed up that my best friend this stuff and maybe i'll call him out or maybe i don't want to be friends with this guy like by blocking people out of your life who are afraid might associate with people who have problematic few like you're just gonna create a bubble and i'm a firm believer that the way that real change happens is through relationships and humanizing. Our differences is violence that apply. You can still talk to your friend and be like just no. I will never go to like a hang at his apartment. Yeah like you can set those boundaries and say like. I don't want to hang out with the guy who says gays should be shot right. Yeah and i know it's your upsetting. You're saying i would ever ask her to end a relationship. She was happy and like let her be in this relationship. You know this guy seems like he's really apathetic and it's not great but it's your friends choice and fled that relationship and naturally. Yeah and let her go through the motions. Because i get bad vibes. And i'd not hopeful. I know i don't know these people in any way but i am not hopeful about the future of this relationship. Yeah yeah yeah. I don't think you need to wreck your friendship with this person that you've been friends for for for fifteen years by making her feel bad for having a boyfriend who's apathetic to shitty to too many connections to many people removed if the boyfriend was saying gay people need to be shot. That's a whole different story than i'd be like. Yeah i could see. Maybe why you don't want to meet the boyfriend. And when i say like you know it's good to talk to people who maybe are apathetic or have them actually get to know people who are different. That's always like with the disclaimer. Like as long as you feel safe and comfortable. Because i know that they're i'm not saying like oh yeah go hang out with racists i know i have a feeling a lot of people are going to disagree and i totally get that too i. This is a tricky one. I just want to say that. I get the instinct to put all those walls up. Yeah definitely i guess for for me. My perspective has also changed a little bit. Now that i live outside my new york city bubble. And i'm very aware that the people around me might not well actually my neighbors. The ones who've been here for awhile did live around lesbians before because the house used to be owned by lesbians. But i think that if any of them like are conservative or whatever but they get to like me and cecilia like that were in a position to maybe change their minds and have them think a little bit more. You know progressively about certain issues that we can have those conversations and it's not you know somebody screaming at you on on twitter and i feel like that's where real change can happen if you have the stomach for right. It's not for everybody. It took me a long time to confront. My cousin who i was very close with growing up. Like we're best friends. Were like months apart in age and then we sort of fell out. She fell in love with a trump supporter. Right before the two thousand sixteen election. I was really put off by that. I was on the fence about traveling for her wedding. To begin with. But then that really really. The wedding was a month before the election. And i knew they were voting for trump. And i didn't go. I ended up offending her so much that she was like. We're not cousins. We're like. She was very offended by and didn't talk to me for the longest time. I waited a few years and eventually reached out. I could see she. She's in love with this guy. They're married. They have a kid now here to stay. I mean i reached out an apologized and offered to come down connecticut for the weekend and get to know them. 'cause i'd only met her boyfriend at my grandpa's funeral and just steered clear right already. Emotions were already. I think i talked about it on the podcast to like i watched. Cbs sunday morning with the trump supporter. And it was like a weirdly unifying experience we talked. He still voted for trump in the twenty twenty election. This was actually like a month or so before the twenty twenty election but texas from her. After i left with allie brought allie. Too and she was like he loves you guys so much he can't stop talking about. How cool you guys are. He wants you guys to come back. We don't have a lot of gay friends and that's so funny that she said that because before she used to talk a lot about how we have gay friends but it was like argument talking qorei right and now it was like they really know gay people. Yeah yeah because. I know he didn't it was just like he has a gay co worker something. Yeah and yeah. It's been a weird blossoming hesitant slow. Burn of a friendship with this ben guy. I still disagree so much. But i think i'm at least humanizing gate people that he's voting against. I don't know their feels like some kind of progress is happening. Yeah it's weird at the end of the day. I think we all have to share this planet and breathe the same air and have to find like that finding common ground sometimes is the only way to get through this world together and be able to actually change someone else's mind because we can't isolate these people. It's only gonna make things worse. My cousin and her husband ben have really lost all their friends. I mean they're in liberal connecticut. The people who walked in their wedding are no longer talking to them like. They're kind of on an island. And i think it's good to send a lifeline and not only isolate them. More people only get more radicalized. That's the thing. Yes of watching a documentary on human on right now docu series on hbo q. Into the storm. And i recommend it. But that's that's part of the problem too that that is a problem because then people kind of like hunker down and then they go more into their like well. This online community accepts me this like horrible forum or like these spaces that are going to celebrate. You know that. I have these view. So i'm going to go more and more and that's like how people get red pill and you know being ostracised for something so this is a long answer obviously more complicated thing but might take in. Some people might disagree. And you don't have to take this advice. But i would just like you said suck it up. Give the boyfriend the benefit of the doubt. If you don't feel comfortable about being around his roommate or whatever you don't have to be around the room but as this girl's friend you should give her friend. I think a chance if she loves him and she's happy and like he's never said problematic stuff like that to to her and he's just like ignoring that part of his friend. You can look past it. Yeah all right. Well case closed problem solved nother checkmark next. Yep sandy your questions to daikin out at g mail dot com. You can follow us on social media at taking out everywhere and taking out. Podcast on tiktok. I love seeing those follows rolling as we refuse to give you any more content on there but maybe once i dye my hair or not dye my hair. Once i make a decision of what the state of my hair. i'll put more content on social media. I think that's also been paralyzing me like. I don't want to confuse people at this image. I'm creating wow. I can't wait to ten years from now. I'm just going to throw all my electron in a lake. Let's be done with it and it's got to put in ten more years follow me at tgi caroline while it still exists. You can follow me at raven simone melody cumali and will. We'll see you next tuesday. We will hi everybody here. My company lenzi williams and co partner with air and pacific content. And we're on a mission. A mission to ensure the high quality work from bypass queer and trans audio creators gets the recognition in serves. We just launched the podcasting seriously awards fund because submitting war journalism media. Awards can get really expensive. The podcast and seriously awards fund will reimburse submission fees for producers editors and other types of creators in canada. And the us. We're taking applications right now so head over to podcasting seriously dot com slash fund. And also tell your podcast making friends.