18 Burst results for "attention capital"
"attention capital" Discussed on Digiday Podcast
"Why <Speech_Male> the attention economy powers <Speech_Male> everything else. <Speech_Male> Every company in the <Speech_Male> world be <Speech_Male> mattress company <Speech_Male> to a <Speech_Male> You know <Speech_Male> DC <Speech_Male> to a large corporate. <Speech_Male> Everyone needs attention <Speech_Male> in order to <Speech_Male> to sell you a product to tell <Speech_Male> you a story to do a thing <Speech_Male> <Speech_Male> And so it makes <Speech_Male> it your most valuable <Speech_Male> resources what you spend <Speech_Male> your time and attention with <Speech_Male> and the <Speech_Male> value equation. Right <Speech_Male> now in advertising. It <Speech_Male> hasn't been it. Hasn't <Speech_Male> been right for years <Speech_Male> like for <Speech_Male> the better part and <Speech_Male> so I do <Speech_Male> believe that subscription <Silence> I mean <Speech_Male> the <Speech_Male> streaming you look <Speech_Male> at Disney plus and Hulu <Speech_Male> ad free and. <Speech_Male> Yeah <Speech_Male> there's a limit to how many <Speech_Male> things people are going to subscribe <Speech_Male> to. We're not there yet. <Speech_Male> And then I think <Speech_Male> you know my personal <Speech_Male> belief on that is you'll <Speech_Male> have the kind of the great re <Speech_Male> bundling right. Which <Speech_Male> is I think. <Speech_Male> I think everyone <Speech_Male> loves to hate <Speech_Male> on the bundle like <Speech_Male> the bundle. <Speech_Male> Maybe they don't like <Speech_Male> the cable bundle <Speech_Male> in it as it is but bundles. <Speech_Male> Everyone <Speech_Male> loves bundles. <SpeakerChange> Like <Speech_Male> everything's abundant <Speech_Male> managing like <Speech_Male> seven different. Like <Speech_Male> my my <Speech_Male> entertainment. Stack <Speech_Male> is getting <Speech_Male> fairly complicated. <Speech_Male> It's <Speech_Male> Kinda like it's <Speech_Male> Kinda like a media company <Speech_Music_Male> start with a wordpress <Speech_Music_Male> and pretty soon like <Speech_Male> you've got a <SpeakerChange> pretty complicated <Speech_Male> so <Speech_Male> I think there'll <Speech_Male> be a redundancy <Speech_Male> at some <Speech_Male> level <Speech_Male> which player that's <Speech_Male> the battle is to is <Speech_Male> to. Who's GONNA <Speech_Male> be the <Speech_Male> front door for <Speech_Male> how you pick your bundle <Speech_Male> in how you aggregate <Speech_Male> because <Speech_Male> it's just is <Speech_Male> going to get harder and harder <Speech_Male> to keep using all the different <Speech_Male> services and the you know <Speech_Male> the Disney's of the <Speech_Male> world will have their place <Speech_Male> because like <Speech_Male> they they <Speech_Male> control of their center <Speech_Male> of gravity and <Speech_Male> then attached to that will be <Speech_Male> other things too for your <Speech_Male> bundle but I do think subscription <Speech_Male> <Speech_Male> and <Speech_Male> it's <Speech_Male> like we keep saying it <Speech_Male> just oscillates <Speech_Male> <Speech_Male> subscription and then like okay? <Speech_Male> We're GONNA work in some <Speech_Male> ads to support it <Speech_Music_Male> to defray some clawson <Speech_Music_Male> runaround <Speech_Music_Male> we go netflix. <Speech_Music_Male> <Advertisement> They can have nuts. <Speech_Music_Male> <Advertisement> I had <Speech_Music_Male> <Advertisement> I. I do <Speech_Music_Male> <Advertisement> not know <Speech_Music_Male> <Advertisement> all right. Thanks <Speech_Music_Male> <Advertisement> so much. Thanks so much <Speech_Music_Male> <Advertisement> and thank you <Speech_Music_Male> all for listening. We <Speech_Music_Male> will be back <SpeakerChange> next week <Music>
"attention capital" Discussed on Digiday Podcast
"This is how many ads were seen today. And then I bet you that would represent two percent of what's traded in terms of advocate process. So I think the the the those trends are interesting. I think the end lasting. What do you think these are lasting sort of? Yeah I think I think the one that I'm hoping for this kind of this gathering in the real world too you know Co View things is like I think that there is. There's been so much fragmentation and there's been so much looked back to kind of trusted sources and they can. Nothing's newly the Oprah Book Club Effect Right Oprah wasn't necessarily better at picking books than everybody else if she recommended it. I know that me and my community would all read it. And we'd have something to talk about and then content people are all starting to like want some of the same so that they can connect with people over. It is a big deal. I don't know if that happens this year but I think you'll see. What do you think these media models that it's the media? It's kind of like a mullet model. It's like but it's like it's me on the front but is on the back What do you mean by selling their really commerce businesses out there using media to drive into into commerce? I think you could look at it. Two ways you can either say. I mean forever. Every major brands been like well. We have to be a content company. Now right I well. I know but that that was what they always said. I mean look I. I always hated. The term branded content is like aren't all commercials branded content. Like if if they're not there thirty seconds on emotion for something The question was did people want it and then and then of course the next the next the next thing they'd say well we'll just WANNA make stuff people want to watch and I'm like oh so it could just pitcher David Ogilvy. I should have made the ads. Good what was I thinking this entire time and then the next iteration of that is them saying no no truly. We're going to have an editorial voice now. The the thing that I do find interesting about this brand's becoming media companies right like is that in a world where real media companies have to chase garbage metrics in order to try to make. Ad dollars a commerce media. Company doesn't have to do that right right. I mean the reverse bracelet because I think there's a lot there's been a lot of like when I say brands. I mean basically product companies that are then using content you know to defray marketing costs but in a world of high customer acquisition cost of these direct to consumer ECOMMERCE brands. I think there's an interesting case to be made to like cut out the CAC and using a lot of these but the cut the cut down the customer acquisition costs by using media on the. Yeah I think there's I think there's a I think the only way you reduce customer acquisition costs are CAC. Overtime is to build a brand ironically like kind of secure i. I don't know if you've seen this trend of DC companies they open up A physical store and they're like well I've been to. Soho Soho is one giant data. See Store nobody But the but they open it and they think Oh. This'll be a flagship. This'll be a barker thing and then they're they're customer. Acquisition cost physical location. It's cheaper like there's something you know a I find I joined the board of a clear channel out of home the the Billboard Company and it started in digital went to TV. Now Matt Billboards. Like I'm working back to smoke signals because like you know But the the five hundred ten dead Canary in the coal mine on this one is like if you ride the subways. It's nothing tech companies. It's I if you don't think they know how digital works like there is something rotten in the state of digital. Yeah although I mean. Look there's a lot of venture capital that have gone into these T. C. companies. I mean I think we have a we have a retail brand come on and retailer should check out. Mutter Retail Dot Com. But it you know a lot of the things that we talk about on there and that we're following very closely is like for example the Casper Your Casper is the bellwether of of this. And they've they finally filed and people are. What's the old Warren Buffett thing like? No one knows if you're wearing a bathing suit until I think the tide is going out a lot of brands and it'll be interesting to see if they can make it work without you know building money. Losing businesses is right. You know I always say it's easy but it's it's it's not that all right. Well it depends. I mean there's two conflicting ideas here. You're right like money. Losing businesses like eventually have to change that however there is also a lot of structural inefficiencies. And kind of the way things were done so like you do wonder where the meeting in the middle is going to happen and again look look at look at what when you look at. Casper's as one and what they're doing now. This is what they have to do but they have to be diversified like like every like nothing makes nothing's GonNa make money off of single products Just like how many times you buy. I mean maybe I'm not buying enough beds but right by decade is the ideal Ideal customer one hundred one hundred match wanting sleep platform. I guess I'm sorry to interrupt you but I was just GonNa say you'll see like what they're but they're stated vision is. It's kind of like what you're talking about with media you can't just be ad supported you have to have all these other like All these other paths towards revenue. And I think the same thing but they're not going to be just selling mattresses now. That's the theory now. That's what has come next so final topic I wanted to talk to You. About is subscriptions. I think look everyone loves recurring revenue. You start the year with a base of revenue. You manage your churn and you can Predict it's it's it's a wonderful wonderful drug At the same time there are so many media properties that are trying to lean into subscriptions that it. It seems to me that the this is another one where the middle is going to get crunched. I think so I I would agree. That there's a lot of there needs to be easy ways for people to pay for things so that they can get stuff to tie quality versus stuff. That is nothing's really ad-supported that much. I mean like nothing. That's normal in good for you is purely ad supported anymore. It feels like because they have to chase volume to to live inside of those spreadsheets that we talked about In the average consumer for their for their time the time value You Know I. This goes back to why attention capital..
"attention capital" Discussed on Digiday Podcast
"How? How does this model work as operating company Versus Holding Company right? Well I man. It's an operating holding company at. Its both in that like Helping the companies kind of operate. So I mean I I used to used to be okay at at selling advertising to people in to the of Large numbers in and I you know no one's going to hire me or hire me to go run their ad sales group at here. I am helping girl. Boss or helping. Tribeca and thinking about new ways in which brands are going to work with them in ways. That are actually mutually beneficial to the brand into their platform And so the team that we've put together at attention. Capital is kind of that group of people. It's there to help and provide infrastructure and support to these brands and there's two types of companies are looking for one. Is The community brands that I described earlier. So a brand that can help curate. A particular vertical. You know we're also interested in travel or interested in food etc and then the other thing is technologies that favor quality over volume right so ticketing subscription. Like all the things that you know that favor. These DIS- tech doesn't work very well for one second page views in the trillions. But it works very well for highly engaged audiences at monetization and figuring out what that place and you're sort of agnostic about business model. Exactly like I mean I think you know. A lot of people now have to clean the investment world. I think you know cooled on any sort of AD based model You know you see people like Like the athletic closing a giant round. Five hundred million dollars valuation And it's it's all subscription and our. You know how this works the Children's soccer side. Everyone goes at six years old secure old playing soccer. Yeah it's not I mean I. I think that I think rather than build still dick can use. I guess I'll rephrase the question. Can you still build a advertising based Media Company in two thousand twenty you can build an advertising supported Media Company in two thousand twenty and what I mean by that is one it can't be pure? Cpm BASED ADVERTISING. Because the numbers. Don't don't add up like the they're not enough. Ams Out there these days I it just doesn't it just doesn't and and and like and the pricing mechanisms have to be different than non. Cpm based advertising is an important component. you know one of the things we're thinking a lot about with these platforms is a. I mean you look. You guys have to deal with this all the time. What is one podcast read worth to? What's telecom right? What is one instagram post worth? What is one story? Integration Worth? What is and the problem with media has been. I would start with. What is your budget right? Well great great. Is that how it works? It kind of I mean but the truth. It's very hard to measure. It's like the Heisenberg principle of like like uncertainty principle in that like I can't measure what one thing is worth because there's just too many things to control for and the problem with media has that it's always been an arms dealer right. It's like our with all three telcos. All four telcos right and so how do you say? I'm going to help you with your outcomes because I'm GonNa work with all of you instead. I think that proprietary platforms is kind of the way. It's going to go so we say to beauty brand x. You know this is GonNa be exclusive. And then they'll be with something like a girl boss and they'll be instagram post and they'll be gatherings and you'll you'll you'll we'll do the podcast and we'll and at the end of the year we'll actually be able. There's enough volume there to measure a movement in the community in terms of favorability towards your beauty brand purchase. Rather than an all exclusive like. There'll be no more arms dealership but I mean beauty brands. How many partners can they work with? I mean like a that sounds all great you know. But you know the tyranny of the spreadsheet. I very very very much do but I think that they. I think that they're the good news for what I'm doing now is i. Don't you know we don't need everybody right? Like I need a couple that that no and then also I think we're we're hand baking. The brands that we think of enough impact that they can be thought of on their own And then we'll scale from there. Yeah Gimme your like sort of three interesting media trends right now of two thousand twenty they. You're focused on. You know I do think so you. You asked if something could be ad-supported could you build? Now it's part of Media Company. I think Diversified revenue streams is is. Everyone knows it like everyone's moved from just being media company to a media and Events Company to a media. Event sends inscription into media. That's something else right and it's you know it's that often overused but Sorry it's true that Disney sketch from nineteen fifty seven where there's Ip in the middle and then they've parks and commerce in rides and whatever else right and. I think that that's actually like that in many sense. Is Everybody's franchises. Now you have I mean actually. It's because people people can't organize the world with with all of the chaos than everything that's out there were creating more content every second than than all the people can watch where you can't trust like people who are gaming the algorithms because it's profitable to game it and get caught and do it again and so people are looking organizing principle so I think one is that okay. I trust the brand. It can also bring me these other things it gets permission to do other things. So that's one the diversified revenue streams. I think the continued March two metrics that don't matter at all I do think that you know. I think that there will be in twenty twenty. It'LL BE SEC. Violations of publicly traded companies that are just misrepresenting numbers whether on purpose or not that. That'll be pretty interesting. Because I I've I've thought for a long time ago the subprime advertising and like just like we talked about it. We've we've been talking about it for years and like everyone's asked like I mean the amount of fraud and advertising. It's gotta be astonishing right. Yeah And you could you ignore it. When was twenty percent you could price it in when it was fifty percents like gotta be inching up towards eighty percent like has got a there. Was that the you talked about one article. But there's another seminal New Yorker piece on how much the Internet is fake and yeah estimated forty percent and that's just pure fake that's not even like people's instagram's and like their extra count and kind of like in the subprime. The reason is because you know the subprime look crappy mortgages had existed for a long time but it got to the point where people were repackaging so much crap that it was just crap. I truly believe I. I do a little crap but not all crap now exactly that thing once it gets so much that you can't ignore it. Yeah and then you like. That's the that's where I think things kind of break because what happened. Was you know there was not a single player in the ecosystem wanted to cleaned up? Because he just kept the price down. So if there's some fraud in there or some stuff that wasn't getting caught as fraud and we'll just price it in lower or lower. The value. David Morgan used to say to me. It's it's it's not fraud. It's a conspiracy right. Everyone everyone everyone had a stake in continuing and not being addressed. And that's like you know. It's a victimless crime. If you're pricing except for the you know you don't the high quality starts to leave like move to subscription moves to Nancy. Pm Advertising and then what's laughed? Like what is being traded? I I can't I I think the long tail is a is a total fiction. They there might have been a time. When the Internet started that there was a long tail and their mommy bloggers. And but now if you do if you had a blog and you have a couple thousand readers which good for you if if you can find a way to get a couple of thousand readers on a outside of this. But let's say it happened and a random. Cpm Rate Twenty Dollars. Twenty five dollars. You're making you know twenty five thirty bucks a month after I mean like like no one supporting themselves. Off of being an independent are independent graders. Don't get me wrong. Then they exist places like medium and and facebook but they don't make a living doing that right so this long tail. The Internet just does not exist in that sense anymore. Okay you gave me to give me the third big focus so diversification and the metrics dome and then I. I do think that it will be this kind of flight to quality. Let's fight to to trust like so You see the rise of the newsletters right the morning newsletters which have just said the media model used to be. I need as much of your time as possible in order to Try to make as much money as I can. Because that's I'm getting impressions but the newsletter was magic. Can I you know I think the skin does an excellent job of this is like they said we want as little of your time as possible. Trust us will figure out what you need to know. And we'll do it so we're going to take less of your time not more of your time so the non volume based approach And you know since there's been a lot that kind of come at it in this this realm and I think the people will get better and better at saying. We want to use as little as your time as possible. I will say see you think newsletters interrupted like you think newsletters are kind of like a signal to something larger. I do and I think the the really good ones build a brand and that brand again builds trust in they say okay. I trust you don't need to go. Scour you know again. It tells you Angie didn't mean all the contractors William Shatner did not negotiate all your hotel rooms. I mean it was. I mean that was. That's that's a shocking one. Some bad news on the newsletter on Okay. A lot of fraud involved there. Oh yeah not able to be verified and so many of these people who are boasting incredibly large emails. Got A lot of those. They bought a lot of those subscribers with contest to Cancun and whatnot. You're not gonna Rod. You'RE NOT GONNA look you're not you're not gonNA shock me that there's tons of fraud in it like. I'm sure there is. I think I think for the people who value for the ones that you can test. The validity of how people like manage their day by. How do you test validity? I'm sure a lot of people have come to you. And it's like hey look we started this newsletter and I think we could probably name a couple now that I walk up and now we have you know seven hundred thousand subscribers and I'm like I'm going around and break okay. I'm going to ask everyone who supposedly in your demographic and not one of yeah I know I I think you do that. I think you do panel. Data is as you go backwards. You say you know. Can we get one? Can you gather people in the real world an email a while I was gonNA use Com scorebig dot com score a knock com score for the email newsletter? World is is a great business. Yeah I think I think building panels of Representatives sampling of of the populace. I mean they just if you just a bottoms up analysis you said. Let's just I've always wanted just to put you know especially Gen Z. And millennial glasses on that. Just they're looking forward and we just count how many ads they see in the in the course of a day then multiply that times. The number of people that there aren't say this is the total universal ads right..
"attention capital" Discussed on Digiday Podcast
"Thanks for tuning in to the digital podcast. The interview you're about to hear was recorded before the corona virus pandemic. So that won't get any discussion here in future episodes will be hearing about the effects of this global challenge on the industries that we cover here today. Thanks again for listening Welcome to the digital podcast Brian. Marcy this week I'm joined by Joe. Marquel JOE is the former Fox executive who is now the CEO of attention capital an investment firm and operating company. That's focused on those media. Companies THAT CAPTURE ATTENTION. Attention is required. One property girl boss. Jani discuss why he thinks the attention. Konami is in what he calls a state of subprime. And why you can still build an AD media company in two thousand twenty but just not one that's based on. Cpm DISPLAY ADS. Hope you enjoy Joe. Walk into podcasts. I thank you for having known each other so long. We have this is this is Serious throwback here so going back to social vibe you're we're GonNa talk about Social Vibe later. Gay But what you're doing. I mean you've had you've had a really fascinating career. I mean I think when we first knew each other You start up then And you went through that startup pivoted. You did the pivot.
Attention Capital's Joe Marchese on the crisis - and opportunity - in how we measure eyeballs on the internet
"Welcome to the digital podcast Brian. Marcy this week I'm joined by Joe. Marquel JOE is the former Fox executive who is now the CEO of attention capital an investment firm and operating company. That's focused on those media. Companies THAT CAPTURE ATTENTION. Attention is required. One property girl boss. Jani discuss why he thinks the attention. Konami is in what he calls a state of subprime. And why you can still build an AD media company in two thousand twenty but just not one that's based on. Cpm DISPLAY ADS. Hope you enjoy Joe. Walk into podcasts. I thank you for having known each other so long. We have this is this is Serious throwback here so going back to social vibe you're we're GonNa talk about Social Vibe later. Gay But what you're doing. I mean you've had you've had a really fascinating career. I mean I think when we first knew each other You start up then And you went through that startup pivoted. You did the pivot and everything this you sold it. Yup He had an accent the and then instead of doing the sort of serial entrepreneur route you went in to like a large media organization. Yeah and so You saw the innards of that right and now you're back sort of on. I would say the investor side but something more explain. What attention is so? I mean attention is a company. It's an IT's an operating company It's just a company that's built to buy other companies And and kind of that fit a particular thesis okay. What's the thesis That the entire global economy runs on top of the attention. Economy of which advertising is the most visible market And that the attention economy is in a state of subprime. Okay explain The mets like subprime. Yeah yeah the the metrics that we use to measure Attention or that we used to represent attention or becoming less and less tied to what people are actually spending their time doing so. I think that there's An opportunity right now to say that there are things that have better and more attention or higher quality attention than the metrics give them credit for I mean you guys talk about this plenty and digitally as cover the industry of advertising but in the in the chase of really what we'd call vanity metrics impressions and page views an There so uncoupled from what people are actually what quality attention is and so therefore things that have quality attention are probably undervalued of put simpler We've kind of convinced the world's been convinced by by big tech for the most part that everything can be measured And if you can't measure it don't buy it then that to me makes makes me think everything that's hard to measure is probably undervalued. Yeah but you've kind of been on about this for a while you're right because I can remember talking to you about different like different metrics. Vp and whatnot. Because you saw the problems when it comes to CBC or CPM right And then I'm sure like within than Fox. He saw the limits particularly of of how. Tv is measured. Yeah and and you know it's funny People assume that you'd really hate TV. Measurement as a digital person. Yeah but to be honest like I'm kind of bullish on panel data because panel data. It's hard to fraud Like like I mean they you know. There's there can be entire phone farms. In other countries that Census data like digital data. Pick up but sit at digital guys. Were always an usually. They're all guys. I were always railing against Nielsen. And how terrible Nielsen is and you get to the other side and your leg. Actually this isn't that no no. It's not that bad I will say like look. Nielsen can be inaccurate. But there's not a warehouse full of TV's racking fake impressions right like like panel. Data is a representation of What a certain set of people are doing. And then you extrapolate like. This is how much time we have the. You know. It's all the classic things like every every four there's more ad impressions in the world and digital world. The more people are watching more ads. And Chiavari think we're just trying to shove them in there so this is all true so why in the world of all the things that you would want to invest in would media. I mean it seems like a terrible. I don't WanNa talk you out of it. It's too late to do too late. I'm here explain to me why this is an opportunity so I actually think that I think there's a couple of things that that are huge opportunities right now which is As platforms grow and as as they chased these vanity. Metrics Trust begins to erode right quality. Goes Down I mean look all platforms engineered towards volume not quality. And and what I mean by that is they are if you make something for a penny and sell it for two pennies. You've made a penny of profit if you make something for ten dollars until it for twelve dollars you've made two dollars of profit. Humans like the two dollars of profit that makes sense computers. Say That none of that. Penny one hundred percent margin. Let's do that a trillion times right and that is why you see like some of the largest advertisers in the world on on the major platforms. are selling very low cost goods right so same thing applies to products as applies to news so in this world where trust is a roading. the curator brands kind of become king. Like no one goes to the front page of Amazon negotiating. You don't you. Don't start at the front page of time to go shopping. You come there with an idea of what you're going to buy And I think the great example of this wire cutter right. I mean wire cutter which you know. curates what electronics. You should buy. has built trust with the community Obviously The New York Times acquired a while ago but these curator's in wire cutter I think is to the next evolution of of the web. I guess we're still going at the Web. Go for here. What craigslist was to the window version? and then post craigslist. There was Angie's list and that was a brand being put on top of it. I mean I have something to shock you With Angie did not meet every contractor. Angie's list those are those are television. Commercials Yeah and that's a brand that got built up and why does that matter? We'll because people would start there rather than starting out a search engine or starting an open platform. I think what's interesting is particularly. Let's stick with the wire cutter as an example. I mean people in media. I think love love the wire cutter. I think with good reason Mostly because it's an anti-scale play anything algorithm mic. It seems like is gamed. Yes I mean because when you go to Amazon and like I don't know about you but if I'm buying those like okay the bestseller best reviews whatever and then you're like you know we've written about it you know there's Yup armies of fake one hundred dollars and anything that can be gamed like that will be and that's what brands are supposed to be. So I I'm a huge fan like I am. I am anti a lot of things in the way. Advertising is kind of polluted The Internet and chasing kind of the metrics that don't matter I'm a huge fan of brands. See Brands are the things that you hold responsible for that you trust too right like Brand less like Kind of commodities. If there's you know lead in the toy or they're you know the you know the classic stories of you know Tylenol. An the the brand is the thing that consumers hold responsible when you go to a platform It's almost like you. They're extracting the margin from brands. And I think that there's a huge role to be played in. In consumers minds to be building up brands that can be cures for them for different areas of life. Okay so this was the the the thesis differentiated. Good time because trust is is you know. I think there was that article Max read wrote. It does sort of everything is fake on the Internet a couple years ago. That sort of summed up this this period that you know we were talking over the years right. It was all leading up to this this primis of online advertising See Pile of money That'd be nice right money. It's attention capital capital. So it's a great way nickname your company capital and people like you and I can only imagine So how much what is like two hundred million. I NOT NON reported non real time to to talk. I don't know so. What have you bought so far So first partnered with James Murdoch's lupus systems we bought the TRIBECA Film Festival invested in controlling stakes together and then Girl boss most recently company. Okay so explain. Each of those different types of properties. But why does this fit your thesis? Well so you look at areas of life where people are looking for curation in so tribeca in the entertainment space and girl boss kind of in employment career Lifestyle and so the way we look at it as he'd attention capital is there's two types of things there's community brands so we define a community. Brandis if they threw an event. Would someone get on an airplane and go there Do they permission to curate? Some aspect of the world's tribeca. Obviously they haven't event They literally curate films. They don't make all the films they tell you. Here's what to see with someone. Where the brand on their t shirt. They don't have to be an apparel company but people would wear tribeca shirt and is the community self sustaining without always having to make content right because if you always have to make content. That's a treadmill that you have to run on versus. Is there a community of people who people go the events The thing that gets the most exciting about TRIBECA 's ethos as a brand that was founded after nine eleven downtown. We're here in downtown. New York and And the idea of independent storytelling equality versus volume. Like you just can't see that many movies like we have to be able to curate down to select few all of those things I mean. That's a brand that were incredibly excited about and a founder and CEO. And Jane Rosenthal that we want to work with and kind of expand I. I'm struck that both of them have a quote unquote events component. They're able to turn people out Yup We we are big believers digital so I might be talking my own book cure but we think that there is something to be said about you know and I think people are coming around to about being able to turn out a community of people. Hundred percent We are huge huge believers in in a I R L digital connection real life to digital connection that it's proof that you have that type of influence in the world like versus again factory said the algorithms can be game but people showing up at a movie theater camp. Yeah I mean like you know. I always went back to the sort of game. Of Game of thrones recaps. It's like you know the the reason that there were. So many. Game of thrones recaps. Is I mean it's not just because of like passion or the brand is it's it's because that's what turned page views right exactly. It's entrepreneur right. I don't hate the player. Geno hate the game. I agree on some of the players.
"attention capital" Discussed on Girlboss Radio with Sophia Amoruso
"So we got into why we've joined forces but I wanna just talk to you our audience a little bit. About what being acquired means. There's words like exit and we're not going anywhere. I didn't leave anything like if anything. I just stopped uptake even deeper into the future with partners who are like even deeper than I am in our future And just for the record. Our team is elated This feels incredibly good heading into twenty twenty with you but what does it mean. What does it mean to sell a business? And what does it mean to buy a business with a holding company Pity Yeah so some of the holding companies that I admire our WPP. I A C Liberty Media and and the thing that I think those companies do well is they help they help or they facilitate opportunities for each company in the portfolio to to help each other And they are working with the kind of companies that you know chronologically are the are the right next ones to bring into the fold So for example the first company that we We actually partnered with James. Murdoch took by the Tribeca Film Festival and the reason that that was a critical company to bring into the attention Capital portfolio is because tribeca allows consumers. Took trust them to curate a really important part of their lives. You know when it comes to how we spend our time and attention consumers are ever ver- more conscious and TRIBECA is a brand. That consumers can turn to to say you know this. This film has the TRIBECA stamp of approval on it. Not only that but TRIBECA has the ability to bring people together. IRL incredible experiences together. So when you think about you know tribeca being part of the attention portfolio now girl boss being part of the attention portfolio what our job is to find out what are the other companies is that we can bring into the fold that will help. Add value to both tribeca and grow boss So that's our job. As a holding company is to survey the landscape and figure out what are the companies that we think have outsized potential and and find ways to have them collaborate with all of the different companies unease in our portfolio. What does it mean for an entrepreneur to sell their business? You know different approaches to investment depend on where your company is in its life cycle. VC has a lot of great attributes But one of the things that being acquired allows you. That visa doesn't is the flexibility to have a longer growth trajectory. These see typically wants to see results in five to seven years whereas invite being part of a holding company you have the opportunity to pause reflect and really take stock of where you want your company to be in ten or or twenty years you know the the power of a brand is that it's going to be around forever if you run the company right and if you like you mentioned build the the right kind of trust in your consumers so we're in it for the long haul we wanna find companies to work with that we know are going to be around in twenty years And are going to play an even more significant role in consumers lives in twenty years than they already do today for business owners considering investment for selling their business or or someone who has a business. That's on their way the really as a time where it's opportune to sell your business and sometimes you can miss that window or the industry changes. How do you know when it's the right right time to sell a business? I think it depends on a couple of factors. One is your team Your team will be loud enough to tell you you what they think is the right path to four to forge and I think you know what we saw working with girl bosses team was at everybody understood that this is a brand that they believed in And they understood what the path forward was going to be but what they needed was the time and the autonomy to forge is that path themselves and when it comes to an entrepreneur selling their company you know what it affords you the opportunity to work with other people who are experts in a thing that perhaps you don't have that talents or skills out on your team or you really WanNa bring that talent into the fold but you don't know what the right way is giving giving your existing you know senior leadership team so for example Joe and Nick Ni- have different skill sets and what we want to provide to all of the companies that were working with is is help using those skills scouts skills at so for example if a company needs you know marketing branding advice They can turn to Joe to help them figure out you know what their revenue strategy is and how they get consumers interested and committed added to the brand if they need product or creative advice. They'll turn to nick who has a breadth of experience in that area and if they we need operational or strategic data advice they can turn to me and I will help figure out you know. What is the path forward for the organization itself So there are different holding companies that offer different opportunities for the companies that they work with. Everyone's going it to be different so when it comes to an entrepreneur figuring out what that next step is for themselves you really have to take the time not only to get to know what the company is known for their thesis but the principals at that company and what they are good at. So what is I mean. I have an idea of what it is. This is a brand new partnership having into twenty twenty. What do you see as what's next for girl boss? Oh man you know the challenges I you know I'm going to so I'M GONNA kick myself in the ass by saying the exact opposite of what I just said. which was that you know the benefit of working with attention is we know that we wanna work with? Brands are going to be around for a really a long time That said I'm so excited about all of the potential of boss that I want everything to be done in twenty twenty But there are areas. I think we should focus on first. So one is figuring out how to expand experiential so the rallies are incredible. Retreats are just in my Gosh like I think people would kill for some of these retreat tickets and then you know figuring out do we increase the frequency of those does. Do we go to different cities. How do we make sure that members of the girl boss community around the country and around the world feel like there are opportunities internees for them to engage IRA with other members of the community? So I think that's that's area number one area number two is the community I think I think the great thing about girl boss is that it's not a discriminatory geographically. you have women in the middle of the country three And then you have women on the coasts who are all turning to the community for the same exact thing they all want to build a business and they need help and guidance to got there so giving women across the country more opportunities to interact with their own girl boss local community I think is an an awesome opportunity and I think is definitely an area that I wanNA focus on and try to figure out ways to help the girl boss team expand that in twenty twenty. I can't wait So I WANNA just get to him some of these bigger questions that I think we all grapple with we all make mistakes. We all have victories and those will always always come with the territory of taking risks and building businesses and building our careers and being broadly entrepreneurial and and what we do which is really at the core of of the gross community in everything that we everything that we do. So what would you say. Your biggest career mistake has been and injured biggest career victory. I don't think I have a singular point in time mistake but there is something that I recognized about myself that I try time and time and time again to correct but it still seems to linger. But it's something I'm conscious of And that is. I don't want to say a lack of empathy But not engaging my empathetic tendencies as much as I should so because I love to move fast and break things Because I like to help. Teams is be action oriented. Sometimes what that means is I don't pause to stop and reflect on all of the great successes that either or a team or an individual team member has contributed to and instead I focus on the future what hasn't been accomplished So I think that's something that I recognize myself and it's something that I've gotten feedback on That I take that feedback to heart so every so often I'll catch myself Doing the the but instead of the yes and to someone And I think that sort of endemic of my Tendency tendency to just want to move forward rather than pausing and reflecting and being thankful for the talent or the successes of the people on my team. So I'd say that's probably only my biggest career. Failure is not taking the time to appreciate all of the talented people that have helped us get as far as we have verses just focusing on how much further we WANNA go victory. Tell me one of my friends. is a bad ass asked. Her name is Brooke Fear Mara she was a CMO At a gaming company in Vegas and she recently Started as a CEO of a spin off of that company that does attack product. And she and I constantly talk about Imposter Syndrome and the reason. I'm bringing up Imposter Syndrome to talk about my biggest success. Is that every now and then when somebody says Oh you have a PhD. You must be so smart. That's such a big accomplishment. I- I- self deprecate. I should myself and I say it wasn't that hard or it's no big deal and what I need to do and what I know I need to do is recognize. That was a massive success. They're very people in the world that have PhD's and it's a massive awesome accomplishment. But instead what I do is say because it didn't feel that hard to me because I really enjoy the process because I loved what I was studying. It wasn't that big of a deal but it really was an really proud of all of the work that I put an. I'm so grateful for all of the people that helped me along the way You know my doctoral advisor all of my colleagues All of the people at the presidential libraries that I went and studied at spend hours in the archives digging for random speech drafts all of those people were critical to my success. And I am really proud of that success. You know what you wanted to do to a certain extent UFOLOGY. Follow your nose. You actually tried a variety of things which is legit now to founding attention capital and but success doesn't just mean career education. Haitian right broadly. What a success mean to you but more specifically what is success mean to you right now so i? I don't think I'm successful. I wouldn't consider myself. Oh successful I think success to me will come at a point in time in my career where I can elect to walk away from what. I'm working Dingaan because I have the time and resources to do something even bigger And I think given you know my adolescence as I was so interested in politics and geopolitical economics how people interact on a sociological level across the globe. That's I think where I WANNA come full circle and end up like I..
"attention capital" Discussed on Girlboss Radio with Sophia Amoruso
"We're doing it Kelly. I can't wait to do it with you So it sounds like brands with gravity and I mean I guess attention and loyalty and engagement are what you're interested in and for the smaller business owners. Who are listening to grow boss Radio Right now? How do you think they can build brand trust? That's a great a question You know the thing that I learned about girl boss is that when in doubt ask the girl boss community because her so many people who are experts in have gone on through this so I would turn to the girl boss community to ask that question myself I'm not you know. Joe Is More of an expert in in terms of brand and marketing than I am but my just sort of instinctual answer is the way that you create trust is by cultivating a community of people that You get along with that you find value in that can give you advice and sort of help. Steer you in the right direction and you're going to recognize is your trust in that brand after there's been sort of like an event that makes you reflect and realized that the advice that you were given the direction that you were Syrian was the right thing to do And then you sort of cultivate trust over time so I think the community is probably the best way to get the right answers and I agree that it's always about listening you know whether it's a client or consumer and I hate to talk about our business on these terms but it's you know it was what I did in fashion. I didn't sell clothes I wanted. I mean I don't want him to wear some of them eventually. Where more and more of my style? Also morphed into something. That looks more like Nasty Gal over the years but I can't just pick out address the I would like an expect people to like it right. It's it's a matter of I guess. Augmenting what your vision is but also listening to what people want. Because you don't have a business if you have a product that nobody wants learning and iterating and listening and testing and having a two way conversation with your community is incredibly important important. It's not that hard. Yeah I agree one thing. I'm very jealous of my partner. Nick Bell Is the heat. During his time at snap. He worked on the product evolution of snap And what he received every day was information about how people were interacting acting with product and through that process. He had probably one of the best front row seats at human psychology understanding. Why people do what they do? WHO how to change product basis based on the choices that people were making And I think you know what he learned that he has helped me understand and is that as you build product like yes you have to trust. The entrepreneur is doing something because they believe it's the right thing to do but you also have to listen to to your users. You have to understand that the product roadmap is not complete until you're getting quick interim feedback. Hi Guys it's a hairless in all kinds of the chase. We launched a digital social network for you. That's free. Hey where you can meet with ambitious women ask them questions answer their questions create a virtuous cycle of women supporting women and create a beautiful profile. Oh file where you can showcase not just what you do but who you are. Because we're not linked in Monday through Friday instagram Saturday and Sunday. This is a place where you can bring your whole self an advance yourself your life along with other women who are ambitious and committed to doing the same in their lives you can message thousands of other users in a way. That's thoughtful check it out because the way we do messaging connecting is really unique and we have regular programming in the form of digital firesides. which which is where we bring in women like the women who are on growth radio who may be a little bit further along in their careers and lives to share? More about how they're doing it. You can ask them questions questions directly in real time so you want to get started. I want you to get started. Let's all get started together so just go to girl boss DOT COM and sign up to be a member over. It's.
"attention capital" Discussed on Girlboss Radio with Sophia Amoruso
"Okay I want to get into attention capital now. Because is the most exciting part of the conversation Tell me why you joined attention. What attention is tell me a little bit about your co founders? Why you joined attention and what it is? Yeah so yeah I knew you know. From my experience in politics. I knew a lot about why and how media was broken. Because you know the most money in politics at spent is on television vision advertising and in my course of working at Pailin Tier and working with media companies The thing that I noticed was most broken about advertising was the fact that the currencies that were being transacted upon and the measurement systems that were being used to measure these transactions were totally BS. Like the fact that in today's Day and age somebody looking at their screen for two seconds is considered a view. Makes no sense to me or the fact that a website essentially establishes its value in the market by how many the people land on site and spend less than one second there it just. It's a lot of broken metrics and a lot of broken measurement systems and I. I didn't think that that was going to lead to immediate industry. In the next ten twenty years that would be survivable so enter Joe Markazi who was a formidable presence. In this conversation Joe started standing up and saying you know this is broken and we need to fix it and there are serious implications And one of the things that he said that attention the most was that what was happening sitting in media reminded him of the subprime mortgage crisis and as someone who grew up in Las Vegas a city that was hit really hard in two thousand eight. I I took notice and what Joe is saying. Was You know when you build an entire industry on metrics and measurements. That aren't true Bad Bad things happen. So for example in the subprime mortgage crisis. You had these mortgages that were labeled you know A. B. C. quality forty mortgages but they were all bundled as a mortgages and they were all sold as a bundle of a mortgages and that sort of mislabeling or misappropriating appropriating. The quality of something Is really dangerous when you have an entire industry. That's predicated on that. So Joan I connected over You know sort of commiserating about the state of the industry but the thing that drew me to him the most was he such an optimist. And I you know frankly the am not I tend to look for it. It's just in my nature. I WanNa find the things that are broken so that I can fix them so I don't naturally go find the things that are great whereas Joe is such an optimist that he wants to figure out like what are the great things in the world that we can just make better So we started talking about about what the potential for the media. Industry is what it could be and that conversation burst the idea behind attention capital which is a whole company That is buying building and scaling media brands and then also the technologies that that help support those media brands So we are proud to say that girl bosses now part of the attention capital portfolio and girl boss represents exactly what we think the future of media is you know. We don't think it's a a future where the industry is built on. Click Bait and thoughts We we think that it's built on people who are part of a community that means something to them a community that they're loyal to a community that they will get on a plane and fly I to hang out with A community that they will proudly wear on their tee shirt So girl boss is exactly that. Isn't it like something like fifty percent of adv US or fraudulent. Yeah some of the latest reports are over forty percent So what that means is every website for every given website. Forty percent of the hits on that website. Come from bought or click farms which means like advertisers. It looks like they're getting the return on investment because is it looks like they're reaching as many people as some websites sold them they were gonNA get but actually they're being defrauded yup absolutely so we think that the media companies that are going to be left. Standing are the ones that transact on true human attention because human attention can't be measured by two second view ability on a website when your mouth is moving and your sound is off. You know that that's not real. What's real is somebody being part of a community and somebody showing up at an experiential event and somebody buying your merchandise because they're proud to wear it a lot of businesses especially venture capitalists? Look for that one thing. Don't understand brands that are building multiple touch points multiple revenue channels us. I'm curious why do you think that is the future. Is that something you're gonna be looking at with all of the businesses that attention capital partners breath so we're largely looking at brands and technologies on the brand side. We have a couple qualitative barometers commodores that we use one is the t shirt test. Would you wear the t shirt. How much would you pay for it? the second is. Would you get on a plane to visit the community or be part of this branding. Somebody And the third is. Would you let this brand curate. A significant part of your life and then on the technology side when you think about the future of techno when you think about the future of media and what these different brands are doing to help these communities get together. I R al.. There are different technologies that are needed to help those brands. So for example ticketing area or audience measurement German and attention measurement Different monetization mechanisms. So there are a lot of different technologies that are needed in order to help these brand's grow so it creates this really nice ecosystem of like Creates a really nice ecosystem of like a symbiotic relationship between the technologies analogies in the browns Because as a holding company it's our responsibility to make sure that were finding the next new company to bring into the fold that adds value to the entire entity And in the process of doing that adds value to each part of your each component of the entity. So media's changing being the media landscape is changing grosses media but were community. Were brand where so many things were technology. How will attention measure? Roi Or just attention with this new world with your thesis of attention capital so in the nineties and two thousands content to commerce was all the rage And given that in twenty twenty. Everyone you want to sort of waiting through this overloaded content ecosystem it's really like convoluted and there's a so much I I'm not sure that content plays a massive role in the future of media. What I do think plays a massive roles content curation so so you think about you know what is the new version of content commerce in twenty twenty? I think it is communities to experiences so if you use community as a sort of the the playing field and you find communities that really enjoy spending time with each other that gravitate to each other particular reason because There's there's something about them that they find there's a value to it that they find intrinsic in their life. You can monetize that. You can create experiences which I think are the new form form of commerce That speak to what that community wants and what that community needs so experiential is a massive burgeoning industry right now and you know. Research after research suggests that millennials care more about spending their money on experiences than on things. So I think that's the new way that media will monetize itself Part of attention capitals game plan is to find the brands that are doing that really well and you were initially hesitant. You're the skeptic in the room because it just sounds like that's what you do. which is I think I mean I am? I need to grapple things and walk around them and sniff them out and be like okay. I don't take other people's opinions at face value. Let me figure out if this is meaningful impressive to me tell how me and just in the spirit of learning and improving and understanding. You know what other people's hesitations might be about girl boss. What was your initial? I mean you you you did see the impact of girl boss when the book came out on here about your story on the airplane but when Joe brought it to you and Nicotine Joan. What was your first reaction? Shen so joe to business partners Joe Marquel Nick Bell. Joe Is like I mentioned and he's ever the optimist And he had no new for quite a while he's been involved with girl boss for a few years So he knew everything about the company. Nick the thing that I admire. We're not most about nick is that he's so curious. Every company that he hears about you can be in the middle of a really deep conversation with him and if you just happen to to mention some new company or a new product. He's on his phone googling it So Nick is always like sort of out there in the world looking for cool new trends and Joe Joe just thinks every trend is going to be the next big thing I tend to be a little bit more of a cynic I shouldn't say cynic I tend to be more critical And I think you know when the three of us are thinking about the possibility of what attention capital can be like. This company is going to be massive. If we're GONNA do really great things and I just wanted to make sure that all of the brands that are part of our portfolio are ones ones. That fit our thesis perfectly so the thing that I was sort of held up on on girl boss about was you know Ken. Ken Girl boss be the kind of brand that can expand into different product Experiences and platform verticals And you know all the great things that you guys have done at the rally there were treats the community. What they've shown me is that they show up for for each other? They show up for the brand and I was convinced as soon as I started learning about the fact that these women they will get on a plane they will wear the t he sure they will spend hours. Interacting with each other and helping each other. I was no longer a skeptic I fully bought into the idea that that not only was girl boss. A perfect fit for attention But it was something that I personally needed to be a part of. I want to hear the airplane story. Because it's just it's it's my favorite. It's my favorite so in twenty fourteen. When the book came out I happen to be at the airport getting on a plane to go to Beijing and and picked up the book at the Bookstore near my terminal and started reading? It got up to go to the bathroom and saw another woman in reading the book. And that's interesting. Maybe you know maybe she just grabbed it all the way to the gate just like I did Went back sat down a couple hours later. Got Up to go to the bathroom again. Saw Different women reading the book and this kept happening throughout the course of the flight. I think I saw no less than ten women reading this book and I remember sitting there thinking like something's happening like this is this is what the beginning of a revolution feels like. And it made made me realize that I had been setting my sights for myself too low and if all of the women on this plane who are reading this book felt the same way that I hi did. Then something magical was going to happen over the next couple of years. Wow set and then you see too low with a PhD. Got It and then you see twenty seventeen where you know. You have the Time person of the year was the silence. Breakers all of these women that come forward during the me too moment Twenty was at twenty sixteen eighteen. You had the women's March so there's all of these things that have happened and I don't By no means. Do I have to say that you know. Sophia started all of them but I think it was the first time that I took notice that something was changing with nine. Twenty four right. I'm so so glad that in two thousand nineteen earn in two thousand twenty. You know we get to see how far we've come in the last few years but I think when it comes to women in entrepreneurship we have so far to go and girl boss. I have no doubt is going to be a critical point in that that juncture. We're GONNA do it..
"attention capital" Discussed on Girlboss Radio with Sophia Amoruso
"Attention capital. It means big things are on the horizon for us. I'll get into the details of what that all means later in the episode because we have one of the founders of attention capital on the podcast today Ashland considers herself a renegade academic turned business. Strategist and now how. She's going to be working with us at girl bus to help us grow strategically and exponentially. Here's a little bit of what she shared during our conversation girl boss represents exactly exactly what we think the future of media is. We don't think it's a a future where the industry is built on Click Bait and bots. We think that it's built on people who are part of a community that means something to them a community that there are loyal to a community that they will get on a plane and fly hang outwith a community that they will proudly wear on their tee shirt.
"attention capital" Discussed on Capital Allocators
"Check to make sure the presence of the present in the morning the New Yorker is still the single best source of journalism in the world today and every week. There is something in that magazine that demands time. What teaching from your parents as most stayed with you I would say it's a teaching that my parents taught me but I have been blessed with phenomenal mentors Muslim through rowing I was a professional rower for a number of years and they all sort of had the same mantra that my father had he was Aurora as well and so it makes sense? It's you start a job. You finish the job. I remember is in England going to school and on Ustralian coach to McLaren. WHO's a legend in the rowing world? Some of the younger kids were supposed to clean up the van and the only done a half desk job and Tim in his voice. Said you start a job you finish the job. These kids just went national white and I thought that was my life. MOTTO IS START A job. You Finish Jonah Jonah. Last one what life lesson you learned that you wish you learned a lot earlier in your life. As I mentioned early deputies. My Life is is immensely enjoyable. Not 'cause it's easy but because other people are supporting me and and so I've mentioned a leash Patel who is a long standing. Deputy on the events side is Nafta Stanford Business School just a phenomenal. Deputy say jump her replacement and then the Hannah or Amanda Cantrell. All these people I cannot say enough about how good they are at their jobs and I wish I learned a lot earlier. That delegating empowers a lot of people. Don't delegate because they're worried they're going to delegate their own job away. I hope I can dog ate my own job away because it gives me time to think about other things that we could be doing. investor other businesses more aggressive journalism. Better stories better events and so the one thing I wish I learned like straight out of college or even before. was that like get the best. Ask deputies you can and they will make your life have kept. Thanks so much bye. Thanks so much for doing this as always. Thanks for listening to this episode. I hope you found a nugget or two to take away and apply in your best thing and your life. If you'd like what you heard. Please tell a friend and maybe even write a review on I tunes. You'll help others discover the show and I thank you for it. Have a good one and see you next time..
"attention capital" Discussed on Capital Allocators
"It's not like I'm I'm not giving you a revelation here. We were writing a story about am I. Oh the internal fund tied to Mckinsey. It's a lot of retirement. Money Partners capital a consulting firm that also does like advising of distress companies. There's some inherent conflicts there and we're not the only ones who cover this the Wall Street Journal and the New York Times covered it very well as well but we have. Obviously this is right in our wheelhouse. This is that money is being allocated to asset managers and so we had a freelancer dig into it. And you start asking questions we asked Mackenzie a set of questions and they had worked with a firm called Brunswick another firm I really respect and they have a new CEO. Nick Diogo. Who I've worked with when he was at CNBC A lot of respect for nick but when it became apparent that we were writing a not entirely favorable story to them it was a strategy? I had only seen once and never used in this way. My general counsel started receiving letters from McKenzie lawyers. And they're never outright saying. We're going to sue you. But they were and I view a letter coming from a lawyer. Talking about an article is an implied threat threat to sue. If they don't like the article and at the same time McKinsey or a group within McKenzie hired another person on a guy named Mike Citric mckittrick. I've spoken time now again. Always pleasant with me but Mike Sue Trick is hired in some tense circumstances. It's public record that Mike at one point represented Jeffrey Epstein. I'm perhaps some other unsavory clients and so we kept getting these letters. And My General Counselor Service saying what are you guys writing about and I said we are doing everything as we always do. We're reporting were asking for their feedback. Any article that we are ready to publish will always be run by our lawyers to make sure we're adhering to American law and in this case because we also received a letter from a UK UK based law firm representing Mackenzie easier to sue for slander in the UK we ought to have a check against UK law and I think that the PR team behind Mackenzie and their lawyers thought that we would not publish or at the very least dull down the story because we were afraid of them are response. was to tell just what I told you in the article. The article is called story. Mckinsey didn't want written. And then we started the story by saying during the reporting of this piece. Mackenzie sent multiple threatening letters to ensue investor. We stand by this piece entirely and they have not pointed out one error with the peace so that was the most extreme version of PR legal and a company in my opinion trying to put pressure on someone not to publish something that was true. I've seen it one. Other instance don't want to go into it because they are so litigious us but I fear that that will become more common and it's not in allocators interest in the end to have only content content coming from asset managers. They need independent third parties. Whether it's your podcast whether it's PSI whether it's The New York Times. I think there is a total value for the Elman's Valencia. The world to have that as well as the communication from their asset managers. What are you seeing being on the promotional PR side not the crisis management in the use of the gem prospects of the world by asset managers? Gers as that one group is getting meaner I think the Gen PROZAC generally the Brunswick of the world and others are actually getting better. They're getting people who understand. Stand the industry more. They're getting better at working with us. Collaboratively understanding what our needs are giving us access to people that perhaps didn't have have access before a classic example is bridgewater and PROZAC has read bridgewater for a while. They've been wonderful when we want to speak two people at Bridgewater whether it's a big name or whether it's a subject matter expert they're getting US access. I think the bridgewater has really bought into the idea that this is a good thing. We will sometimes be at odds. There will be calls between myself and PROZAC. Bet They all love but there's a real respect there in a proactiveness activeness about it. That's a big change in my time here. Another thing for us all these firms do research. A lot of them are as much academics as traitors offers and we like having research straight about if it's a valid study about allocate or behavior. We WanNA write about it if it's coming I'm from academia that's great but APR puts out a bunch of great research and so the PR people were often the middleman saying. Hey acuras is wonderful as a research. Do you want the first crack at it. And we'll always say yes and so. I think that it's a selection bias in my mind but the firms that I really enjoy working with and and then I respect a lot. Because I think they're focusing a lot on the client service and then client engagement are more proactively working with us in a respectful manner. where I don't have to worry worry that they're going to be screaming at a twenty four year old reporter on the phone while I'm out of the office and we mentioned bridgewater a couple of times? QR attempts tend to be the largest firms or the ones ones that put the resources into that. And then get your attention generally yes. I think there's almost a linear relationship. They're having watched these firms Sir while I've always been surprised that more asset managers don't invest more in the client service and distribution side of their business. Astrom Andrews are ninety nine times hundred started by investors. Right that's just the way it is and it's the way it should be. But as they get bigger and they realized that inevitably they will not always be good. Would they will never have bad years. And you talk to allocators and the worst thing. These firms can do is clamp up and not talk the firms over communicate. Kate during crises are the ones that have the sticky assets and so because they are able to invest in the client service function and happy people dedicated to this role. I think those are the firms that have the sticky money because in the inevitable periods of down performance they can be hugely communicative to their clients. They can be value add in other areas beyond pure Alpha one of my now good friends Ted noon and Acadian. He calls it relationship Alpha. That's that's how he thinks that he runs distribution there. I thought those beautiful way of putting it. There is investment alpha but people and asset managers should not discount the relationship relationship Alpha involved in this business. These are people right. Chris Almond wants someone to talk to when something's going wrong not just to shoot the breeze but because he has real questions and he wants someone to pick up the phone because he's written two hundred million dollar check to them. I want to circle back to this idea of tools that you've learned undeveloped that you can share so we talked about what makes for good article. What are some of the other tools that you share? This is a big one that I think I was not attuned to enough one thing that we really focus on is the packaging of the content. There's nothing worse. Then having Julie Siegel senior staff writer right in-depth feature and spent six weeks of time and nights and weekends on this and have no one read. It means. I haven't guided them correctly. They may no impact and so one of the biggest things that helps ensure that doesn't happen. Once we decided on the topic is what we call the packaging of the article. We redid our website around two years ago I dot Com turned into what people in the industry like Tokyo night. Ads just popping up all over the place so he trimmed it down and tried to make it beautiful and simple. We're pretty proud of the way it looks. That's important design is really important. We spend a lot of money on the artwork. That accompanies the pieces. We you do then. That goes down everything to like the font not something I expert tonight you hire experts right. I have a director named Ed Johnson who is a former the journalist himself hugely valuable can just defer to him entirely on. How does this look at this? Look as good as it can be. And then there's packaging titles titles five one skill unearth one skill. It's writing titles for an allocated by staff jokes about this. I I love working on titles. So we're coming out with a piece later on today and we'll spend fifteen or twenty minutes. We already have a bunch of ideas title. But what's been fifteen or twenty twenty minutes just batting around ideas around. What is going to make this red? And there's a number of principles we do there. I'll talk through them as well. The first is authentic. We've tried to make more energetic than it was in the past we want to still have a Gravitas that I always had blue WANNA have an energy to it and so all our titles we always. Are they authentic to that brand. We WanNA put out which is really thoughtful but energetic the second is aligned this is the Anti Click Bait thing click. Bait effectively is a title that doesn't match the content. It's a promise that's not delivered. And so when we title article it's gotTa be Eh aligned with the actual content that sitting over top of. There's no worse way to ruin your brand quickly than to do that. And then applies for us. It applies for Wellington applies for Acadian. Everyone right appropriate is important as well. This is more than just the tail but people consume media and all these different mediums are used print versus the digital. It's not something we worry about anymore. But when you read an article in the New Yorker imprint the title is often a pun like three or for words you go online and look at the same story the title's different. It's much more descriptive. And that's not just for search engine reasons. It's because says people figured out that puns don't really work online. You need more descriptive title so needs to be a line to the medium. It's in twitter. We will forever lever story have like three or four tweets ready and it'll be maybe more snarky on twitter. It'll call out individuals who are themselves on twitter so before writing a story on a Q. R. Says Factors Suck. They would never say that but that would be our title online. If we're on twitter would say like at cliff assets ache you are you just have to use the medium to its advantage. Then there is the tactical and the strategic part of it suit strategic there needs to be consistency when I give talks to people I actually bring up a Peon I title and then I title and nine times ten people can tell the difference P and I and again immense respect for what amy resnick's doing there you can tell Pena title. It's sort of just the facts ma'am. Am Right. And that's actually important. I think really is important for them to do that. Ours is more magazine for lack of a better word. More literary sorry. Perhaps you want to be consistent that we don't want to jump back and forth we don't want to be a P and I title one day next day a New York Times tunnel which often have very specific they love commas in their titles. So we try to be consistent with that but there's also adaptive title tastes change. This is were reading. Other people's stuff comes into play and I would encourage bridge asset managers to hoover up competitions work. Because of this title Preferences Change. We often joke about the the titles that we know are gonNA work right now. There's two models that basically guarantee you success and it'll change but the one model is the quirky rich and like technical world two sigma the blank blank blank world of inside the blank blank world of that just as catnapped right now the other one and it actually is so pervasive. There's a ton of jokes about this are the two cents headlines Headlines trying to use an example here. I'll just make enough going back. To Bridgewater the old foil Bridgewater I had a phenomenal two thousand eighteen period. Then January happened those work really well but those were by really well right now something will come along and taste will change and we we will notice it because we track our stats to and we will adapt with the times and so those are the prince was used for packaging and the title. I cannot stress. That's enough for asset managers now the constrained by compliance departments and they are constrained by an immensely conservative industry brand wise. Yes I can do stuff with my titles that Wellington cannot do but I would encourage people to really think hard about. How do I cut through the clutter? I've just had a team of PM's and writers sit down and give twelve hours of their like scarce. Hi To writing this piece about fixed income. I don't WanNA screw it up by calling it. Our views on fixed income. You've just taken. Can this gift in like thrown in the garbage and packaging is a really important part of what we do all right more tools more tools. It's not that complicated. Gated no the distribution as well but that kind of takes care of itself and it's not as applicable to the asset management world. Seo is table stakes having your website optimized.
"attention capital" Discussed on Capital Allocators
"And I think that's Puna tuna interesting discussion about how we can both take from each other because in the largest scale my job is editor of I and their job is not all all that different. They are trying to engage the world's most prominent institutional investors via various mechanisms whether it's written word or video. I'm I'm trying to do the same thing engage those same people now. Marketers have taken us up further. They after then turn that into some monetary value for the firm firm. I just have to get those eyeballs and then we can serve ads against it but it's those tools that we use have been interesting to discuss because there's a lot of crossover there. I'm on the edge of my chair. Here what are those tools. They're not specific to finance but the same principles apply and I I sort of steal them from the people who are better at my job than I am. I'm grading Carter. who was the editor of Vanity Fair for twenty five years vanity? Fair sometimes gets thrown. Around as a flippant magazine. Because there's always a star on the cover but some of the best journalism produce less twenty five years was coming out of Vanity Vanity Fair hidden behind the star or starlet is a great piece by bill call and about hedge funds. Serene Carter said there's four things that make a great great story the versus access. You need to get access to people that you competitors aren't at institutional investor I benefit from those editors that came before me so much because they meet built such a good brand that I as we can credibly call up anyone in this industry or more likely nowadays nowadays and this is a whole other vein of topic their PR people and they will respond. Because of what my predecessors did they did a great job building a brand so and we WANNA do videos with Henry Kravis or Ray Dallaglio it's really just a scheduling thing. which is phenomenal? You know that is unusual. The second is what Greg Carter would call disclosure. Oh sure I would call revelation. They have to tell you something. They're not telling someone else. I'll use this example. It's sometimes hard interviewing folks like Ray Gallia or Stephen Schwarzman because they are so smart and so well practiced. They will never tell you anything that they don't mean to tell you or that. Hasn't been strategically typically decided to tell you and so getting that well known person famous person to tell you something. They haven't told a peon. I or our plan sponsor or a Bloomberg journalists heart. That's very hard. The third is just narrative. And that's good writing. I think you get good at writing by reading being. I think people who read I will know that this is important to us. Think of Leanna or who have worked with a longtime phenomenal writer. Julie Siegel phenomenal writer. and has is better contacts than anyone of ever seen in asset management Amana Cantrell as well knows this space so well as a wonderful writer actually wrote our second most popular story story of last year and so I'm blessed with people who were taught very well in their high schools in journalism schools but that's very important and the fourth is the hardest to get it's conflict. I hate puff pieces. Everyone's read them is done their fair share over the years as as well everyone has. There's no conflict in puff pieces. There's no why am I reading this. You're not gonNA conflict everything right if you're doing a write up of a survey there's no conflict but when you do a story what Amanda Orleans or Julia Writing. We're always looking for that nugget of conflict that you're trying to Suss. There's a lot of forces aligned against you on that one is for industry that thrives on disagreement trading against someone else at all times. No one wants to disagree the right. There's a real sort of almost gentlemanly spirit to this industry. Outside of the shortsellers on twitter. The second is you have an army of PR people who are fighting you at every turn to stop the story and it is getting worse and worse and worse risk. Their tactics are getting much more aggressive. I believe there's four. Pr People forever journalists now. I suspect it's higher in the financial industry. There are some some firms that I have a ton of respect for in that space jen PROZAC and what she's built. I really respect the people at PROZAC. They treat the journalist unless with respect even when they're disagreeing but there are people who asset management firms higher and they are to put it very bluntly the nasty they're there underhanded they will threaten the scream. That's what's stopping you from getting that fourth and most essential part out of the story which is highlighting real conflict. Not Trying to create click bait not trying to make a story where there's not but just trying to tell the actual story that's going on out there so those are the four things that we applied everything whether it's written word live content on a stage anything so if we flesh rush through that from the perspective of an asset manager trying to draw attention to similar but different access not a problem the disclosure sir revelation. Probably not a problem. I would say they need drill down harder. I mentioned. There's a lot of agreement here. We don't need another white paper explaining what happens to corporate pension plan funding ratios when interest rates fall. Right now a marketer may think fats real disclosure I would guess that the Corporate Pension Cio does not feel that real disclosure so drill down more insight and less is kinda common on. And I would say if you don't have to say you don't need to write it right. I think sometimes seeing into these marketing divisions whether it's politics or busy busy work they feel the need to put out a lot of stuff and I know that. CMO's wonder is actually getting consumed or is it just falling into the ether. no-one seeing it then when it comes to narrative even quality writing. You mentioned. You read a lot. Do you read with a different Lens than someone who's just casually consuming information. I probably do because I'm always trying to learn right. I actually have no formal journalism training whatsoever. My worst grade in college was was the one writing class I took and so I'm always reading to infer. Enjoy meant a lot of times about the structure of an article. I I mentioned the New York of a New Yorker I think articles are the most well-structured things I've ever seen. They're getting the best writers and they have a great group of editors including their senior editor. David Remnant to me a well written pieces beautiful and so we try to emulate that and so I look at thought leadership. I'm seeing too. I'm probably looking through that Lens as well. Now the benefit for marketers is that it's a buyer's market for journalists. I know some firms have hired ex journalists to do this but I think that the best I want to get the narrative writing you cannot teach that passed the age of eighteen. I think that's something that happens. You know I have two children. They're learning right now. That's that's very important for me because I know that if they don't get that now they're not reading and writing. They're cutting off huge swath of professions and enjoyment later on and so I think the vessel for asset managers to do this is to hire ex journalists or often hire PR firms who have extra analyst on staff to do that for them. And what does the well-structured piece he's look like there's different formats. We try to start every major long form piece seen setting. You don't want to start a story at the beginning if anyone listening reads they'll get what I'm saying if I'm writing. The story of Redel Ios Life. I know fairly well because I've read the book and I've written many things on him. I don't start. The book. Saying radio was born born on Long Island to the son of a jazz singer and then he went to college. That's sort of chronological. It doesn't work so you'd say what is the radio. Oh the biggest win ever had. Let's just call the markets right. Let's start last year. December markets are crumbling. Bridgewater has has bets on that will benefit from that. How you'd start that piece and I'm just making this up is on December twenty second in Westport Connecticut? A group of five individuals sat added a table. Like Ray dallaglio sat at the head of the table talking about principle number forty eight. That's eight you set the scene and then you move back. Then you take a step-back rebellion was born on long into the son of a jazz musician. And so it's about those hooks that the point is always to make it more painful aim for for the reader to leave and to stay. They just have to read that next section to figure out what's going on that is the key whether you're writing a feature you for institutional investor feature for the New Yorker and I think a piece of thought leadership for an allocated to consume the same principle applies all right. Let's touch on this last one conflict so as you were writing a piece for your investors for prospects. How does that concept of conflict come into what makes a piece that that audience will be attracted to? You can't manufacture it and when I say hey those first three or in every store we try to do. The fourth is not always there. Conflict starts with the pitch. Right we get pitches from our own staff and from our external freelancers and I'll use an example. It's a controversial one in one that has caused us a fair amount of pain and that to this day we stand behind and entirely because there's never been one Arafat with the story and it's a story of UC regents Jackie Bashar. I've had numerous meals a JAG. Deep I very much respect. I think he's one of the most charismatic people I've met in this industry. We know a lot of people who worked for him. We the Anna. Or who is deputy editor alongside. Amanda Cantrell this was around a year and a half ago. Cain to me and said I'm hearing some stuff about disgruntled told employees and my view is check it out. You gotta go. And you have to do the legwork and so there's at colonel during the pitch of conflict there might be something there but you need to go and make sure it's real partially because as I said we want to be Real L. partially because people have lawyers and we need to be able to back this up in a court of law and so that took believed three trips out west Biljana as the story develops getting people on the record. You know this is not a problem for asset managers right. They by definition have them on the record when their employees always. We have to convince people to trust us that the first tell us often things off the record. They'll say okay. Here's what I'm seeing. And then in so conversation about getting them to come on the record and use their name which with most stories as much as we can you always want to name their. It's better than the alternative and so I'd say conflict conflict evolves over time and it goes through many steps always checking to make sure you're not believing your own B. S. journalists love love writing hits. They WANNA write big hits and so my job as an editor is to sort of say okay are you sure. Does this person have an ax to grind. Does this person want to tell you that off the record because they're actually trying to get someone fired like you have to go through all those steps then obviously lawyers get involved. We have hefty. FD Legal Bill to make sure that we're doing everything as we should. And then you always go to the source itself right. You give everyone a chance to respond two questions you have and that is where a lot of the real tension happens. That's when people start getting very angry and hiring lawyers themselves and calling up editors and screaming and that that kind of thing but it is the conflict part it is hard it is intensive. It's long I want to touch on. Maybe a lesser conflict but you mentioned action the increased use of PR firms and from an allocators perspective. There's this constant conflict of you want a manager who you like managing your capital. But maybe not too much capital. How have the asset managers use PR firms historically and how is that changing? This is oversimplified two types of PR firms there are firms that are there to actively get a positive story out so using Jim PROZAC. Jen is built a business largely on firms that want to engage with the broader world in a positive helpful way. Jen does a lot of of the work for them and they have a lot of tools that spin along saying thing there's crisis. Pr Asset Management Like every industry has bad actors has bad events. Sometimes intentional sometimes just screwed up. And oftentimes there is another layer of people who come in and our crisis. Pr Those are the people that are screaming on the phone. I fear that that is becoming more common. I can use an example here because this actually made me very angry great. I'll use names and we wrote about this..
"attention capital" Discussed on Capital Allocators
"I can. That is public. I spent my career. You're writing interacting with Alex. But I really love the business. Side of what institutional investor does. It's certainly my honor to run certain parts of the business that a lot of the world won't see the media brand is the most prominent thing we do and I can share how many people read it and the growth there but I spend a good part of my time on stuff. That's behind the curtain as well and I really enjoy it. Why don't we start with most people knew I for the print publication which has gone away? I want you talk about that. Strategic decision how you got there it was not an easy process. I was founded in April of sixty seven by Gil Kaplan. It was started as a print magazine quickly went into the events business business and the research business. Today is the day that the all American research team was released for the forty eight time and so those things that I was known for and print print magazine was one of them partially because it was really first to market in the sixties. And you saw at that point not just in finance but New York magazine was made a month. inflator rolling stone was made. Within days of there was an explosion of like cheaper printing. An ambitious young people full who came out and all these industries may these publications and I was a publication. There weren't that many editors or the first editors was Adam Smith the guy named Jerry Goodman who wrote under the pen name Adam Smith was really the first one to get to know and profile. Warren Buffett you had some great editors over the years right up to my predecessor Michael Pelts. These are people who care deeply about this publication. And we're really good at telling the stories that needed to be told hold but over that time the Internet was invented and I think no one at I would say we manage that transition wonderfully. I don't think anyone else. Manage that transition wonderfully media was the Taurus Lee slow to change that. Some people really did well with that. I think of business insider who's really embraced embraced digital only in its work for them. The HUFFINGTON post beforehand really genius business models but it came time. We look at the financials and printing printing a magazine for a one hundred thousand readers in shipping at all over the world is not a cheap endeavor and so around Christmas of two thousand seventeen it. It became very apparent that we had to change something and change something quickly and some people will think it was a discussion between having print product and having no print product. It was really more of a discussion about what we want to be. Do you WANNA even be in media. And so those were pretty he days. It was around two month process and I worked really closely with Vicky King our publisher Diana Fun our CEO James Lavelle who became our CEO trying to figure out a solution because our belief was that institutional investor needed to have a media presence. It was still the best marketing for the rest of the business us. And so we went through a lot of different iterations of what we're GONNA do. And by the end of that it was march. First we made the decision mm to announce that we were gonNA print our last addition on April first. Not a joke. It was after fifty years. I think it was five hundred and eight issues. We would publish our last issue. I would say when we told the newsroom. They're upset I was upset. You're ending something. That's it's happened monthly for fifty years this industry but very quickly I think the newsroom and everyone else realized that this was actually a huge the positive of change. We actually now spend more journalism than we did before because we're spending less on printing and shipping magazines. The process of making a print magazine is very onerous. And it's actually a bad process. A magazine has to be made in multiples of Eight. You have to have eighty eight pages. Eighty pages seventy seventy two pages. It's just the way magazines printing and so if you lose a story at the end you either have to fill the page with junk or takeout stories race and there's always a deadline. You have six PM on a Friday. Your files need to be at the printer in Minnesota somewhere and so inevitably and this happens and reading magazines myself. I think I can tell a happens. You're putting in stuff. That isn't ready. You're not yet ready to put in the world. But because of the constraints of the medium it has throw out there and so very quickly. Newsroom realized wait a second. We can publish stories in the ready. We have a much less lumpy workflow. It's always gonNA be consistent consistently high paced but consistent and the stuff will only go to the world when it's ready to go into the world now the resources versus changed we cut some heads. I was sad to see. Some people go reroute tourist. It made it more variable costs right more freelancers but the end result has been culturally culturally phenomenal and just typically in both our revenue. I won't give exact numbers but I'm media standalone media's profitable and it wasn't before it's a great place to be today and just from the readership we just ended our fiscal year. I look at the stats pretty much daily. And and whereas in two thousand seventeen we had one point one million. US readers in two thousand nineteen fiscal. We had two million plus readers those readership stats are being being mimicked in other major markets. Where you'd expect it the UK? Our readership is up just as much Australia. A lot of these countries with large institutional money manager markets were seeing that rise. Now nothing's as big as the US that's to be expected we're all based here but we're eighteen. Months on culturally phenomenal financially phenomenal and just in terms of the product were putting out. We're proud of the product putting up Royce trying to make a better. We're proud of it and readers of responding responding to you quoted a couple of statistics. And we're all in this kind of data driven world now. But how do you know what the readership was was when you were sending out print magazines. You didn't this is I. Would say it's still a fuzzy area. There's more clarity now but you do surveys surveys. You know who you're sending it to but there's always a mix of sending it free and paid. There's publishers always claim. Well it gets passed around five time. MM So I do that and so I know. There was a lot of frustration on the side of marketers in the persistent frustration on the side of marketers print products because because it is such an opaque market when it goes on in the world and you have no idea if it's going to be read now I'll I'll say this I'm happy to mention competitors. I have a lot of respect for P and I've I have a lot of respect for what Amy Resnick does you. An asset management waiting room and is always sitting on the desk. That's the one thing I disliked about getting out of the print business that it used to be. PSI Institutional investor maybe plan sponsor maybe CEO mill publication. And now. Generally you only see P and I I would love insight into their business. I can try to figure it out from the outside. But that's the one downside but it's not there to go back to your question. It's a source of frustration for everyone paying for ads that they never knew exactly who is reading it and they didn't know how many eyeballs were on it. And now that you've transitioned over to online. What if you found? From the data it warms a journalist heart that the most read stories of the year are always original investigative. Long long form work so again. We just ended our fiscal. We did a strategy meeting on October first and went through all the most stories to see what's working and what's not and inevitably inevitably the stories that have the longest engaged time that's readers spent reading. It are the ones that have also the most pay juice and the most readers. It's hugely heart. Warming is someone who likes doing that and so we put a lot of resources into making to a week. Long Form Feature Length magazine style journalism. And it's really been worth for us when we started talking about this shift. We all started talking about this question in that asset managers have of how do they either use medium or how do they communicate with their clients differently. And I know you've spent fanfare manatee time thinking about this would love to hear your thoughts. Yes so part of my re-met outside of running the media brandon being the editor. Is I run. A We call it an institute institute chief Marketer Institute and so we have the CMO's or heads of institutional marketing come and we put on a conference for them to talk to each other about their challenges. So Oh I can help them because I sit on the opposite side of that often but also I get to hear their conversations and there's still a lot of of learning to happen in that world. There are some people in the marketing departments asset management. That are very smart but still. They're still struggling with some some of the tools they've been given. There's always that cultural element that marketing within asset measure organizations can be viewed as a secondary function sort of a base level support function. And so one of the things I get from them and talking a lot of people is. There's actually still a lot of frustration. Not as much as there was when everything was done via print print but still they rarely can get person level data on who's reading what the Holy Grail for an asset manager. Let's take Bridgewater Douar as an example and I don't have much insight into their marketing side of it. The Holy Grail for Bridgewater is Senate the daily observations every day. They're morning Bible Bible of this industry and they know exactly how long Chris Salman has read it where he stopped reading it where he may be copied and pasted. That would be the gold standard. Now I don't know Bridgewater's done that if they have Kudos to them but most asset managers haven't got that granularity yet and they are confronted with all this technology. Oh Gee they have right. You can get satellite data on Walmart's parking lot but I still can't figure out if Paula land is reading my face and thought leadership leadership and so they're still struggling with that and I think that there's a real business opportunity there there yet to get around privacy issues yet appeal to tell the Chris Elman's and the pollen so the world that you're doing this but for someone to actually figure out a mechanism that an asset manager can produce meaningful content content and know when clients and potential clients are engaging within how is very much the holy grail of asset management marketing. Because it's just is going to refine the selling process the selling process and the client experience process so given that we don't have those tools today what have you learned from from these conversations with the CMO's about sort of best practices of what works. There's no consensus. They produce a lot of different types of content everything from academic based thought leadership. You think of what does right to the daily observations from bridgewater her to what. PG is doing which is very impressive on a larger scale of getting marketing pieces on the fixed income out there but there doesn't seem to be any consensus says on what works and so what has been the most interesting conversations for me. Perhaps not as interesting for them. I don't know is that trying to tell them what we're learning. What has resonated with our audience? What are the tools we use to turn a story from something? That's going to get a thousand views into something that's going to get ten thousand views and more importantly something that's GonNa get read for thirty seconds versus something. That's going to get ready for thirty minutes and so I've spoken to a number of groups about CMO's about that..
"attention capital" Discussed on KOMO
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"attention capital" Discussed on Hurry Slowly
"So if I have to be on a slack channel all day, you're significantly reducing the amount of value that my brain can produce. If I have to answer Email day, if the way our business unfolds, we just send unstructured messages back and forth all day, the amount of return on the investment in my human brain is really diminish past. What is possible? So this means not only are organs. Nations getting less value, not only as stalling productivity and and non-industrial productivity by by the way has been stalled for the past decade or so this probably plays a role in it. So not only are you not getting as much value to count your corporation organization. It creates us sort of miserable working environment for the people who own those human brains as our human brains, don't like being used subpar and being scattered in this way. And so I've been really arguing that I think we're gonna see a revolution in knowledge work. Just like we saw similar revolutions in the early stages of industrial work where we're going to start to think critically and more sophisticatedly about how do we actually get the best value out of human brains, a knowledgeable organization, and we're going to prioritize that over more. You'll concerns like the convenience of able to answer an Email quickly or the complexity of trying to think up diversified workflows that, you know, takes advantage in a more complicated. How does this work? Could this person does this? Here's the communicates you it's more difficult. Perhaps the work, but we're gonna get past those trying to figure out, but what we really wanna do relentlessly is get a better return on attention capital. And I think this is going to unlock a lot of productivity in the economy. I think is gonna make a lot of individuals lives. Much more meaningful and satisfying. And let's just say the working title of the book, I'm writing on. This is called a world without Email. And I think that kind of captures division. I have a health things are gonna change so coming back to that idea of attention capital. And the things that are coming between us and really leveraging our attention. You recently wrote about a study that I think you were while you're sort of both pleased and disheartened to see at the same time. As was I which is that open offices were actually proven to be incredibly unproductive and distracting could you maybe talk a little bit about your perspective on that open offices. I think are a classic case. Eighty in not understanding the value attention capital, but think prioritizing other types of goals, and and so I mean, the study confirms something that is obvious anyone who works in an open office, which is this idea that we're all going to be collaborating more and have more serendipitous insight and cross disciplined creation is nonsense. What happens when you put people in open office, everyone stops talking because if anyone talks it bothers everyone, and it's a pain to go try to reserve one of those small number of conference rooms at the edges. And so the study found that face to face interaction dropped significantly same group of people same company they measured before. And after they switched to an open office format they start they stopped talking to each other's onto the opposite effect. They sent much more emails instant messages and their overall productivity without so it was just a it failed to meet or had the opposite goals of everything that they attended. And I think we see this type of thing happened a lot. So why do we do open offices? My theory is that actually. You know, for the most part it's more about signaling than it is about some sort of actual productivity gain. It's a way of quickly signaling to investors in perspective employees that you're disruptive or doing business at a new sort of way and getting investment money or trying to get a top prospect hires is very very valuable, especially in the tech sector in..
"attention capital" Discussed on Hurry Slowly
"Tools that are sort of designed to solely this sort of resource to take advantage of it to to to weaken its capability to produce value is something that we should be like, Alex a lot more skeptical of once a you mention attention capital, which is sort of new theory that you're working with and kind of starting to shape and put out there and thinking about this idea of how companies can help knowledge workers in particular realize their best performance, can you go a little bit more into that concept of attention capital. And explain it. Yes, I'm trying to better understand the knowledge work sector through some sort of traditional economic, Linda. So so we know through like traditional capitalist markets Erie that an organization has their their capital investments, and they wanna get a good return on that capital. So if you're running a factory hundred years ago, you make your main capital investments are in you have these giant pieces of machinery, you have the big dynamo. That powers your whatever the powers the assembly line belts. I mean, it's physical things with you know, gears and oil, and you care a lot about I want to get the best return. I wanna produce the most stuff and be as a fission as possible, and I really care about getting a return on my capital will knowledge work is no different. But we don't think about it in these terms enough yet. So if I'm running a knowledge organization, or if I'm a freelancer in the organization has just me the main capital resource is. Human brains and their ability to concentrate on information produce new information this valuable so in the knowledge sector, the main capital resources, no longer hulking pieces of equipment. It's human brains. This is what produces the value is. Ultimately, the thing that produces the new information that actually has valuables in the actual knowledge economy. And so we should be thinking about how do we get the most return on investment in this attention capital? And I don't think we're having that thought yet, we're not having this conversation enough knowledge work. So we set up workflows that significantly diminished the capacity of individuals to take their attention capital and produce value out of it..
"attention capital" Discussed on The mindbodygreen Podcast
"Too easy answer at sometimes like meditation when you're like, life is goes to shit, and you're like, what should I do? It's almost always the answer is like meditate or like, you know, you just sit down and that's usually so I feel like an herbalism to easy answer. You wanna give something sexy or something. Nobody has ever heard reinvent the wheel, but it's almost sometimes fun to go back to the basics. So there's a lot happening and food more specifically functional food right now, it's exciting, you know, talk about expo west, fancy food, all these new brands, attention capital. It's exciting. There's lock on. So what do you think is a trend and what do you think is a fad? Oh, I mean, there's plenty of both. I think I'll start with the positive. And try to end with the positive and sandwich out the negative. I really think that got health. Anything around. Although I'm not the biggest fan of really expensive probiotic supplements, you know, you can spend a fortune there. It's but fermented foods. I think it's a real deal and got health and the importance of gut to everything is that's just a real thing and Sopher overall, it's just a beautiful thing, and I think it's here to stay and I'm, I'm so having fermentation is a beautiful thing. Get another t-shirt. Yeah, we'll we'll does the St. shirt company. Maybe. Sometimes you think that there's, you know, there's not a lot of money in this wellness thing. So maybe start a t shirt company. Lambing? No, just kidding. Yeah. So I think that's a real thing. I am actually a bigger proponent of new people coming to industry. I know people get from Sevilla jealous. It's like, hey, up in heroin time, and now there's all these new people. But if you have compassion, you realize that you everyone has been at some point, the newbie absolutely who didn't know anything. So when somebody has never heard of even mauka, maybe in this case, your have compassion like I didn't. There was a point when I didn't know about Maka you know, it's like we've all been there and just having that and especially now with people flocking into because it's so sexy and trendy and being natural better for you, organic wellness. Anything around that is just having compassionate people who've truly do it for the right reasons. There are definitely people who do for money and that's a different conversation. But I'm more welcoming of over newbie than I feel like. I think people should more be understanding that we all start somewhere. And and it's a beautiful thing that more people excited about it shouldn't be like exclusive is should be inclusive. That's the whole dream from day one was that everybody would like e cleaner and better right now it's happening like slowly it's happening. So why do we resist? Isn't it sometimes funny that like success is, are you live in Venice beach. That is very true that Touche for that. And but I mean, definitely like if you look at bigger numbers as well, like some of the probiotic beverages on the computers or or organic food and a lot of other things they are going mainstream. So there are positive signs on mid west swell. So no. He said, our goal is never to preach to the choir to build a bigger church..
"attention capital" Discussed on Asymcar
"That that have become iconic things on the phone but they're they're they're born on the phone there born and thrive on the phone in as a result on you asked yourself why he buying a new phone where he buying a first phone but first smartphone it's usually 'cause most of my friends are on snapped at all my friends were this or that i'm going to join with them in then do all these things so the job to be done if the phone he's no longer anything to do with telephony noone had anything to do with computing either a created a completely new p i call it the peak the performance thing you measure the product by when you measure it by you you measured by its ability to be this objects for social media and possibly you know imaging at possibly gaming impossibly pocket manila this is another example you don't do paul kabongo on your computer you don't and that's two hundred million people in like thirty days that started doing that so the thing is when you then okay so that that means up with a job of steve jobs and apple at the end of the day after baby five six years turned out to be to create anew p it wasn't the great the phone it was to create a new performance that defines what the product is measured by and as a result it moves people to that activity moves all focus in all attention capital everything toward that activity in an act that activity did not exist in anyone's dreams wasn't exist even exist in anyone's.