8 Episode results for "assistant professor of neurology"
March 5, 2019: Hour 2
"This message comes from here. And now sponsor indeed if you're hiring with indeed you can post a job in minutes set up screener questions then zero in on your shortlist of qualified candidates using an online dashboard get started at indeed dot com slash NPR podcast. Search teams continue to look for survivors in eastern Alabama. After those powerful tornadoes killed at least twenty three people in a news conference today. Lee county coroner Bill Harris said the victims ranged from six to ninety three years old just keep those families in your prayers. There's one family was connected in her over seven people this man laws one seven in one family. Well, our next guest says this tragedy highlights a unique vulnerability in the south Victor genie is a tornado researcher Ed northern Illinois university, and Victor you were watching radar tracking of these tornadoes. What were you thinking as you watched? Well, honestly. Early your stomach. It's heavy, and you know, as a researcher what's happening at the surface. Well, and as you point out storm prediction center's head out looks for two five days in advance tornado watches were issued people like you around the country were seeing this. What's the disconnect? Why did so many people die in your opinion? I think it comes to the unique question of exposure. And vulnerability we have a big challenge in the southeastern United States as we have a lot of trees in the way, it makes seeing tornadoes very hard. We have another big problem though. And that's we have a lot of mobile homes, and you're if you're in a mobile home when a tornado strikes, I you're very likely to be injured or or perhaps even killed my colleague here at northern Illinois, walk rashly and another colleague Steven Schrader at Villanova university of looked a lot at mobile homes, and what we generally see is over half of all tornado fatalities occur in mobile homes. And yet they only account for roughly. Seven percent or so of the United States housing stock. So we have this disparity where a lot of folks are getting injured or killed in mobile homes. And so we ought to start thinking of potential whether it's legislation or some mandates to require these mobile home parks to have safe shelters nearby. So these people have access to safety, but that only really I think addresses one issue of the problem. The second issue is were making really good forecasts. But are people actually getting the warning? And if they do get the warning are they actually willing and able to take action, and that's another thing that, you know, if you think forecasting, the weather is hard forecasting human behavior is sometimes even harder. Well, let's talk about that. Because Gershman who's with the university corporation for atmospheric research, very bluntly said, maybe we need more funding for social science to actually figure out the psychology of people because the messages are going out and some people complain I don't want that. Interrupting my television show, I couldn't agree more. We absolutely need more research on how people respond to our watches our warnings. And even our severe weather outlooks. Again, the science is getting very very good at predicting at least general locations of where severe weather is likely. But we still have this disconnect as we saw a couple of days ago people's lives in those regions, especially in Lee county, Alabama will never be the same. Well, we certainly not blaming the victims are trying to figure out a way to get that message across. So there's that, but we've also been hearing today the concern that and it's not even tornado season yet some have mentioned that April will that's coming up. Maybe even worse. What do you say to that? I am always very careful to use the two terms tornado alley in tornado season. Because I think when you use those terms you lead people to believe that severe weather is only going to happen or is only likely to happen in a certain area of the country or to certain time of the year. And as a researcher, I know that that's not. True tornadoes happened in all fifty states, and they can happen any time of the year. And while the southeastern United States doesn't have a focused tornado season. They have a very broad risk over the entire year. And that means you can never really let your guard down for these events. And if you do you become complacent to the hazard, and unfortunately, if you become complacent, you may become of the of the sort of mindset that you know, these are not of that are going to happen to me, and I shouldn't worry about it. When they issue a watcher a warning. And unfortunately, it just takes one tornado to really, you know, produce what we saw couple days ago. Victor, we are hearing terrible stories out of Alabama apparent holding six year old son who was just ripped from his arms because of the strength of the wind. Another man they were hiding in the basement and the dog got very quiet. So he went up to see opened the door, and almost was vacuumed out with the force of these winds, if until mobile homes in particular, get more shelters, what would you what should a person? Into if they find themselves suddenly there, they are and the tornadoes coming hit the floor get under something. I mean, what can you do? Well, you can't wait until the houses. Collapsing on you to try to think about what to do, you know? But if you're an attorney to warning in you do think that your, you know, your your property or your life is in jeopardy, you really need to get indoors get to the lowest floor in put as many walls between you and the tornado was possible. You know, I'm telling you even people now to in your emergency kit. Put a bike helmet in there. Because a lot of the injuries that we see our blunt force trauma to the head. And you know, I think a bike helmet could actually go a long way in your emergency disaster kit when you're thinking about severe storms. Victor Jen Seaney tornado researcher at northern Illinois university in the sad. Terrible aftermath of the tornado in Lee county, Victor, thank you. Thank you, Robin will the actor Luke Perry is being remembered today by many other Hollywood stars who worked with him over the years. He was most famous for his role on Beverly Hills nine oh, two one. Oh, Perry died yesterday after suffering a massive stroke a few days earlier, the CDC identifies stroke is the fifth leading cause of death for Americans with one hundred forty thousand dying from strokes each year. And joining us now is Dr Mona bay who who is assistant professor of neurology. At Johns Hopkins School of medicine, Dr welcome and let's start with the basics. What is a stroke, and what causes it? So a stroke is caused by any disruption of blood flow to the brain the brain is the only organ in the body that is reliant on a constant flow of oxygen and nutrients to keep the sales of the brain functioning. So stroke can really happen in two different ways. One is when the blood vessel gets blocked, therefore, reducing blood flow to the brain by an inclusion or blockage of the blood vessel. The other way stroke happens is the bleeding kind of stroke, a hemorrhagic stroke when the blood vessel itself breaks, open and blood leaks out in during the brain tissue around it. And the fact that Luke Perry was just fifty two years old is that unusual for somebody to have a stroke of fatal stroke at such a young age. Yeah, you know, stroke definitely increases with each decade of life above age fifty five, but it's not uncommon for a young patients to have stroke. So probably on the order of ten to fifteen percent of stroke patients are really under the age of fifty five. And are certain people more at risk than others. There are definitely risk factors that put people at risk for a stroke. Some of those risk factors include high blood pressure smoking. Atrial fibrillation condition where the heartbeats irregularly and increases the risk for sending a blood clot from the heart to the brain high cholesterol, poor diet and lack of exercise some of those will put you at much higher risk for stroke. There are genetic and family causes, but those are much fewer and far between and how likely are you to die from a stroke, or if you do survive one what is lifelike afterwards. You know, we've really made great gains in how in the United States. We've helped patients to survive through the stroke stroke used to be the number two leading cause of death in the United States and now is down to the fifth leading cause of death. That said probably between ten and fifteen percent of stroke patients will die from the stroke. That really depends on the type of stroke that the patient is having a. And the size of the area of brain tissue as affected by the stroke. So the larger the area of stroke, the larger the area of damage of the brain the more chance for death equally. Some of the hemorrhagic stroke types, have an increased likelihood of death, depending on the cause of the hemorrhagic stroke, and then what is life like afterwards for people who've survived a stroke once you've survived the first few days after a stroke, all efforts really turned to helping you recover from that stroke. So, unfortunately, although we've improved survival from stroke. We haven't really moved the needle on the level of disability that stroke leaves people with once they've experienced it. So the patients who have strokes can have physical abnormalities, meaning some patients can't walk. Some cannot move their arms to take care of themselves, including activities of daily living, some strokes steal people's ability to talk or communicate in that can mean effect the ability for the words to come out properly or. Even the ability to understand the spoken word to them. Some strokes steal the person's ability to see completely. So some stroke patients will have a loss of vision in one part of their vision different types of strokes may cause trouble with balance. And so while people do recover from stroke and can get back to meaningful life. There are a lot of stroke related disabilities that persist when you can survive the first few days of stroke water, the warning signs for people. I know that there's an acronym called fast that that people should follow when they're trying to identify. If a stroke is occurring, and what to do about it. Yeah. It's really critical that people know the signs and symptoms of stroke. Now, the fast acronym is really great because it encourages people to remember that this painless process you should respond quickly and fast stands for face weakness. So if you see somebody who's face drooping on one side that could be the sign of a stroke, a stands for, arm weakness. So if somebody who was previously moving their arms, well, suddenly has weakness in one arm that. Could be a sign of the stroke S, stands for speech. So if you noticed that someone is having trouble talking or understanding, the spoken word, all of the sudden and t- means time time is of the essence when you have an schemic stroke or the stroke that is caused by a blockage of a blood vessel. We have a very narrow time window for which treatments can be rendered. So calling nine one one and getting to the hospital as quickly as possible as essential. That is Dr Mona bay who who's an assistant professor of neurology. At Johns Hopkins School of medicine talking with us about strokes after Luke Perry died yesterday following a massive stroke just a few days earlier. Doctor. Thank you. Thank you. In two thousand three fine art photographer. Kevin, boo. Bruschi was on assignment in a peaceful Syria to take pictures of places like the ancient Sook in Aleppo, a center of commerce for some two thousand years and people like the small boy hugging the long, hard sheep. He was tending. This was eight years away from the uprising than civil war than proxy war and battle against ISIS. That would kill four hundred thousand people forced twelve million more to flee and reduce much of Syria to rubble in two thousand fourteen we spoke with Syrian scholar Amer I'll awesome about the archaeological losses. I've just seen photographs from a site close to Raka lodge trenches dug up with these bucket diggers, you know, and the damage is phenomenal and it's gone forever. It can never be returned or retrieved. Well, now Azam has written the forward to a book of Kevin boob. Riske's photographs from two thousand three legacy in stone Syria before war, we start our conversation. With Kevin boob risky, who's at W, AMC and Albany, New York. Kevin welcome. Thank you very much described. The Syria, you've visited my writer friend, Lou Werner, and I we arrived at night, and Damascus, and it was a Tober of two thousand three the American war in Iraq was six months old and our intention was to visit Syria because of the proximity of the war and to tell a story of some sort of the deep history and the living culture of Syria. And so we ended up on our way to Aleppo to do photographic portraits. And then the stories of the people who live and work in the souk selling olive oil soap wedding dresses spices. It was an incredible endless labyrinth of alleyways vaulted archways. We'll have pictures it here now dot org. But does it still exist as the war started in two thousand eleven there were street battles throughout Aleppo and the Suk became know a hot point of the conflict. Fires and then bomb barred -ment as well as you page through the book, turn these beautiful columns. These arches how did those stones hold up? Are they gone everything has been damaged to some extent. Some things have been entirely destroyed. There are eminent that are still there. But it's very hard to know. Exactly. What's left? Isis had occupied the ancient city of palmyra for two years. They use the beautiful old Roman theatre as a backdrop for mass executions, they blew up and totally destroyed the magnificent monumental arch the incredible immense. Temple of Bel was also thoroughly destroyed. This was a a direct assault on the cultural history of place and also the multi-ethnic cultural histories because there were the ancient Romans and the early Christians and the Byzantine world followed by the early Islamic world and all of that was targeted by ISIS and others. What were you? Thinking when years later, I mean, you were there in two thousand three and one years later, you're watching the news, and you're hearing that ISIS is as you said impel Myra Palmira is a town known historically for its role and the silk route servicing caravans, what was it like for you, very disturbing? It's very hard to see the unravel -ment of places that have been somewhat stable for such a long time. I mean in two thousand three Lou learner, and I went to serious. We didn't have the idea of a big story. We just wanted to be in touch with people that were there to show that people were having regular lives. And then I realized I'm in Syria. Now, I've got to take my time and get out to what are called the dead cities in two thousand three you could go through that area and just come upon these glorious abandoned roofless limestone structures to three stories tall with a beautiful carved rock, so as a photographer just taken with that. That the interplay of light and shape and stone. We're looking at some of them, and again, we'll have him at here now dot org, but there's San Simione which is part of the dead cities. There's a church there. Bill to glorify this relatively new faith of Christianity in the your four fifty nine beautiful pictures of these they look like very crude crosses do. You wanna go back? Of course. I want to go back. But I also know the dangers all the I is all the unexploded explosive devices, not also all the political difficulties of being an American going into a place like Syria. So at some point. Yes, I would love to go back. Well, meanwhile, I'm looking at one of the pictures. This is a souk in Aleppo, and you see a huge stone wall on the left and along rows and rows and rows on little plastic hangers of babies outfits. Little onesies some gentlemen with leather jackets who look like they could be walking down a fancy street and Italy a woman covered head to toe. You've done all of this in black and white, and they they. I do feel like ghosts. These photographs go from two thousand three, but my wife, and I were in Syria in two thousand nine and going into the mosque of Damascus in two thousand nine was like being in the pizza. San Marco in Venice. It was just a collection of people from all over the world. There was no sense of division or discrimination. And so that's also an image. I like to keep with me. I don't think of my images is ghost. I think of them as a testament to the resilience of culture. And so I think we have to believe that there's going to be a future for Syria for their people for the cultural legacy as well. I'm not seeing images as ghosts. But as solid factual evidence of what Syria can rebuild itself toward that's photographer. Kevin Uber risky. His new book pictures taken in Syria in two thousand three legacy in stone Syria before war, Kevin. Thank you. Thank you so much, Robin. Well, now, let's bring in honor. I'll awesome again, he's professor of Middle East history and anthr- apology at shawnee state university in Ohio, as we mentioned we spoke with him in two thousand fourteen about the archaeological losses in his country, Syria. And now he's written the introduction to Kevin Buber skis book, and professor your thoughts. When you first saw these prewar pictures, do they look like ghosts too. You know, I mean for me it was almost like jumping on on these phones in Omaha. Thank god. Somebody's recorded this because this is all that we have left the original monuments themselves, whether it's the old souks of Aleppo or the temple Belen palmyra, and and other such monuments when now destroyed or just damaged beyond repair. So having these fabulous beautiful photographs really then for me became almost like a beacon of hope that future generations will still be able to see. See what I had seen with my own eyes, at least and still marvel at their beauty. I'm surprised that you are as hopeful as you are seeing the photographs because you said to us that without this tangible proof of the past which is now mostly rubble. There is no future Syria. You have to have it for a Syria to rise from these ashes, a cultural heritage derived from a common shared history is critical to establish a Syrian identity that takes account of ethnic or sectarian or tribal differences. Yes, indeed. But series is very fortunate in that it is an extremely rich region in terms of the amount of cultural heritage that we have so even as we have lost such amazing beautiful sites and monuments. There's still a huge amount left. My concern is that our ability to then make sure that future generations can see feel and experience the same things that we. We have in if not the same way in just as equally meaningful manner. You are also when we spoke with you fighting for UN resolution to ban the trading of some of these items. You also spoke volunteers who are protecting for instance, mosaics on the floors by sandbagging would become even more of a problem for is not just the deluding is happening in the this. But look at the way in which social media platforms like Facebook like watts out. These are one of the primary ways in which looters, and you know, would be terrorist organizations. And and would be buyers are interacting on the same page is yesterday. I was just looking at a page one page out of fifty sixty pages. At least that I've been able to identify where they're over eighty thousand members of this page and the page specifically is set up to invite people to basically show their goods, and if a sale occurs, you promise to pay a dividend or or something to the organizers of. The page, but have you been able to get any kind of resolution banning that there are several, you know, we've had bills posses in the, you know, the house we've had there are international laws that that try to restrict the trade in a lot of our work is campaigning to raise awareness about the danger of buying or dealing or trading in looted antiquities, just at the very least warning the general public that. When you buy an antique witty, just make sure they'll just that. It's a funding or Fe. But that also it's not looted recently that some terrorist is not just made a lot of money. Thanks to the fact that you've just bought this professor back to the photographs can't imagine. I'm trying to think what it'd be like to have mount Rushmore completely toppled and destroyed. What's it like to for you to linger? Oh these photograph. You know foot across can be very beautiful. But there is something about being there. If you think of the temple bell, for example, one of the features of the temple of Bally's that you go early in the morning, just as the sun is beginning to rise in the template self is quite dark, but as the sun rises from the east it climbs, slowly, and at one moment, it will hit those windows and room will explode with light blinding light that sensation of light that feeling you can never recreate that in an image. And what really really breaks my heart is that, you know, future generations of young Syrians, including my own daughters will never be able to experience this. They will look at the pictures. They'll read about it. Sure. But they will never be able to experience that feeling that sensation of that light exploding just as the sun hits those windows. That's amore. I'll Azam professor of Middle East history and anthropoid at shawnee state university in Ohio, professor, thank you so much. Thank you. And again to see the beautiful pictures from Kevin's book Syria before go to here now doubt Bork. This message comes from here. And now sponsor indeed when it comes to hiring. You don't have time to waste you need help getting to your shortlist of qualified candidates fast with indeed post a job in minutes. Set up screener questions then zero in on qualified candidates. And when you need to hire fast, accelerate your results with sponsored jobs. New users can try for free when you sign up at indeed dot com slash NPR, podcast, terms, conditions, and quality standards apply as the twenty twenty presidential campaign gets underway. Major donors are deciding where to put their money that includes big tech companies like Google, apple and Facebook, which all spent millions during the two thousand sixteen campaign, but after so many scandals over privacy and election meddling, silicon valley's reputation is not what it was and donations could be a liability for more. Let's go to our weekly guide to the world of tech. Recode? Teddy's life. Her is senior editor Recode. Hi teddy. Hey, five minute. So it's early yet. But how has Silicon Valley already been weighing in? Do. They have a preferred candidate. You know, I spent the last couple of weeks talking with ton of big democratic donors democratic fundraisers. And you know, I think that in some ways this is kind of the opposite of the two thousand sixteen campaign for Republicans where you saw a lot of energy early behind Jeb Bush here in twenty twenty we have a similarly sized democratic fields. But there's no early money moving very quickly. You get the sense from talking to some democratic donors democratic campaigns that Silicon Valley money isn't really what used to be right? I mean, take someone like Sheryl Sandberg. Big democratic donor in the past. Obviously extremely influential household name what a democratic candidate want Sheryl Sandberg, another F E filings anymore because of all the problems she had at phaser. Okay. Even though she is the lean in author. She wasn't very transparent. About some of the company's activities. Right. And I think you know, that speaks to the broader issue here of like Silicon Valley donors in Silicon Valley marquee names will raise questions about are you too close with Silicon Valley. And I think a great example of that is Cory Booker, the New Jersey Senator and kind of, you know, mid level democratic candidate right now long close with lots of important people in Silicon Valley. He's an app to answer questions throughout this campaign about EC two close to tech. Right. And he might be asked those questions by other democratic candidates in the debate. One activist. You spoke with called the tech industry. Our generations big tobacco not just for these scandals. But you know, there are people questioning whether a lot of the technology that were living with is good for our health. So there's a divide there. Right. Yeah. I mean, this was an activist by Cory Booker. He felt that he was a Manchurian candidate for Silicon Valley and Booker might be at one end of the spectrum. You know, you have other candidates. Like Amy klobuchar. The Minnesota Senator who's actually been pretty tough on big tech would even she's coming here to San Francisco and a couple of weeks for fundraiser. According to an invitation that we've seen so even if you are, you know, very strident and in your opposition to tack in a lot of criticisms of it, a reality of democratic politics is that this is where the money is. So you gotta show up. Well, and just briefly because there's just one candidate right now on the Republican side. But last week the conservative political action conference CPAC had Senator Josh Holly, the Missouri Republican hosting a panel blasting Facebook and Google and Twitter for what he called a left wing social agenda last year at the same event, you had Facebook and Google with product demos and open bar events to whoop conservatives, so Silicon Valley seems to be having a, you know, a break-up with the right, right? And the left, right. Yeah. That's the challenge. That's the challenge for the value. Right now is there's you know, they used to have some comfort with Republicans because they're free. Arket big companies that have produced time innovation east of comfort kind of with the left culturally, right because of their progressivism on social issues. And now, you get the sense the valley has really no political allies. Teddy Shlaefer senior editor for finance and influence at Recode teddy. Thank you for. Thanks. Did you use shampoo this morning? If you did it probably lives in a plastic container that you'll discard when it's done what about your ice cream. That's probably in a container that you'll eventually throw out which brings us to a new idea to get products like that into containers that you'll put out on the porch after you. So they can be refilled the company that wants to do this is called loop. And it's already got buy in from Nestle Unilever and Procter and gamble loop. Is the brainchild of Tom Zaki? The CEO of the recycling firm Tara cycle. He joins us as part of our series of conversations with leaders called view from the top, Tom. Welcome back to here. Now. Thanks for having me and tell us first about how this would work. Exactly. Well, the idea of loop is to solve waste at the root cause which we know we think release idea of using something once or disposability, and so the general idea would loop is that instead of the consumer owning the packages at the end when the remedy it's always owned by the manufa. Factual. And so instead of it going to waste or recycling. We simply pick it back up from the consumer clean it and around. It goes again sort of like the way milk used to be delivered a back in the nineteen fifties. And in some places still is, but are we talking about in addition to ice cream and shampoo? What else? Well, the idea is to bring this re-use model to absolutely everything from your laundry detergent to your mouthwash from your orange juice to your granola. I mean, truly everything in partnership with the world's biggest manufacturers to really try to shift consumption from a disposable system to a circular one who comes in picks it up and drops it off. However, you normally buy your products today whether on ecommerce or whether in store, it would happen the same. So if you buy online, you can access loop say from loop store dot com or other places it's delivered to you say by UPS, and then it's picked up by those same delivery vehicles in store version. You bite at the store and then take it back to the store. Now, as you know, when you buy something at the supermarket right now almost everything has a seal on it. So that you know, it hasn't been opened before would you be able to do that with container that's being reused over and over again. This is a really good question. You know, a lot of these things that have been really thought about in design really from a disposable perspective have to be reengineer when you think about it from a durable point of view. So when you get your delivery case instead of there being taped, there's a zipper. So we need to put a little latch on the zipper to make sure, you know, no, one in the transportation is tempered with what's inside then for the products themselves in beverages. Some caps will give a little click sound when they opened. So you know, that no one's tempered with it. But there's a lot of innovation. We have to do here to make sure that that type of work can go to any type of container. Now. How did you get Nestle and Unilever to go along with this idea because? They're they're part of the beta testing here. That's right. And it's you know, what I'm really thrilled. With is you know, beyond Nestle Unilever, PNG Coca Cola, Pepsi Mondays. I mean, the list just goes on to most of the world's biggest producers, then what got these major companies excited is that loop doesn't just solve for the idea of waste. But it also enables them to bring out innovation that they've always dreamed about. But simply couldn't in packaging that is owned by the consumer. So let's take for example, the Nestle Haagen Dazs ice cream container. So today ice-cream comes to us, basically encoded papers the same thing as a coffee Cup, and it's generally unfunctional and also not recyclable in most recycling systems, the new Haagen Dazs container is double wall stainless steel. So it's an elevations of design. It's like the most beautiful ice cream package out there. But it also because of its double while nature keeps your ice cream frozen from multiple hours on the go. So if you take it. Out of the freezer. It'll look beautiful on the kitchen table, and you can have it out there for the whole dinner, and it won't melt now that may seem like a trite innovation but in the world of ice cream. That's quite game changing. Now, I imagine another upside for the companies that are involved in this is that it kind of locks consumers into a specific brand. Because if you're going to be using this container over and over again in its Haagen Dazs ice cream, then you will send it away and come back with more Haagen-Dazs. You're not going to switch over to Ben and Jerry's. In the meantime, while you're absolutely right. One of the neat. Things about reuse models is we have a sense of what comes back and so in the online systems you can turn on a function that allows your empty product. Let's say you're empty Tropicana to trigger an order of a new one, and that is incredibly convenient for consumers. So they don't have to worry about ever buying their orange juice again, nor do they have to worry about having too much which is one of the challenges with traditional subscription models that it's like a box every month. And then if you've turned on your orange juice and locked in the Tropicana, the chances of you staying with that brand, or of course, elevated, and that's good business from the companies who adopted what is the biggest challenge for you in all of this though. I mean, we've talked about a lot of the different things that make it difficult to change consumer behavior to change something that people have been doing forever and make them do something different. But what's the biggest one for you? What's the biggest hurdle? You know with loop. It's a re-imagined nation of the entire way products are made. So I think there's like an inertia challenge where companies when they develop these packages have to invest quite a lot of resource to develop them, and then build the entire operational capability to be able to fill them have them. Go around those are quite big challenges to surmount. And then when it comes to the consumer the biggest thing, we've learned is that we and I say this even as myself, really as consumers, we prefer things that are cheap and convenient. And so for us to scale what we've realized is the easier we make loop and the more it feels like disposability the more it will succeed. And so we're really trying to make it feel like, hey, you can just throw out your container when you're done don't even have to clean. It was just throwing it into a reu- spin at the end and not a garbage bin the part. I'm optimistic about is the suppose ability has only been around for seventy years. So I think there's a really good opportunity to. To look into our past look for the wisdom in the past. But then to think about how to modernize it and make it something that really is first century that is Tom Zaki, and we will link you to more about loop at here now dot org. Tom, thank you know. It was my pleasure at great the Chattan look for to chatting against some time. And Luke plans to start testing its products in Paris, London and parts of the northeastern United States in may, you can see what these containers. Look like adhere now dot org. Well, as people like TOMS Aki, try to bring us into the future native Alaskans are sticking with traditions that have been around for generations on the far northern coast of Alaska. Preparations for spring wailing are in high gear that includes making a traditional thread called Eva, Lou from caribou tendons, which are used to sew together the seal skin boats, which are basically canoes that can slide on the ice. Ravenna Canaan of Alaska's energy takes us to an evil workshop. Diana Martin is the first to arrive at the new Piot heritage center for Neva Lou workshop that will be going on most of the day. I have my sinews on the floor because then needs to stay cool. So you've got a plastic bag in what is that? It's a caribou tendons. They need to be split it prepared to make strands the work actually started months ago collecting tendons from family members who brought home care Buddha attendants had to be dried outside in the cold for several weeks. Now, they almost look like stocks of a plant beige and kind of stringy they crunch when you split them apart. After their split, the strands will be braided into thread this whole process. Takes a ton of time and energy one skin boat can require over fifty tendons and some years. There are a lot of votes to make thread four at one time. There were seventeen that were sewn in one spring five of Martin's twelve siblings are whaling captains. So for the past two decades, she's had her hands full almost every year making sinew thread for their skin boats. She also lends a hand to other captains when they ask her. She's one of the teachers at today's workshop. Hi, nancy. The other is Nancy Levin. An elder and a whaling captains wife workshops, like this one have been held for the past few years to teach others how to make the threat we learn how to split the sinew we're going to clean it for the lady who would like to learn let it says the splitting stages, especially difficult because the tendons are tough. Sometimes it takes two people to pull them apart. It visibly muscle. It's like a you go to the gym, except your arms work lot and your feet work. If you can't pull it with your hand, you put it on there. And let it steps on one part of the tendon and uses her arms to work on splitting apart of it away. She actually enjoys the work in part because it's so all consuming everything just falls into place. The problems the stress the thought to have most of them just disappear and all the effort pays off when whaling crews get home safely with a new season of whale to feed the community for here. Now. I'm Ravina chaotic in you'd Kavak. Oregon's new I in the country's statewide rent control. Law was signed last week and is now in effect. It caps rent increases to around seven percent plus inflation with buildings below a certain size exempt as his new construction Oregon's governor Kate Brown said the law will give immediate relief to Oregon's struggling to keep up with rising rents will maybe some immediate relief. But what happens long-term, not everyone agrees Rebecca diamond is associate professor at the Stanford graduate school of business. She researches rent control and joins us now, professor diamond, Rebecca, welcome. Thanks so much for having me. And I have a guess that what you're going to tell us about this research this irrefutable quenching of numbers isn't going to be popular with a lot of people who believe that. Of course, rent control is good because we see how rents are just skyrocketing in cities, and this will enable more people to live in places they can afford. I mean that is thinking, right. So I think the research does support in the short term, right one ranked control laws. Come in those initial renters. They are helped, you know, the level of rent increases, limited it enables people's to stay in their home. But in the long run is when you start to really worry about rent control and think about how landlords might try to recoup. Some of these rental losses that rent control takes away from them, and that can really undermine rent control in the long run. Well, as you say it in the long run rent control. Decreases affordability fuels gentrification creates negative externalities on the surrounding neighborhoods so start with you were talking about, you know, property owners who have long said when they protest rent control that if I can't raise my rant. I can't afford to take care of property. I'm going to turn around and sell it and take it off the market. Do you find that? That's what happens. So when we studied this in the context of San Francisco, that's exactly what we saw landlords are going to find uses of their. Property that are more profitable in rentals. And that's gonna lead to less rental supply. Yeah, we'll talk about some of the other affects because, you know, rent control as we said again, it's about affordability people. It's been called insurance for people. They can invest in a community because they know that their rent isn't going to skyrocket. So they become a big part of the community send their children to school participate. And that's what advocates have rent control of always pointed to you're right. It's insurance for those people who get access to rent control right away. But as the landlord start taking their properties off the rental market. There's going to be even less supply of rental housing, that's affordable. And then the shortage of rental housing. We'll just get worse. And when there's a shortage that drives up market, rents you end up actually getting higher rental rates when you initially move into an apartment because there's just less housing to go around the other element of rent control that people may know about anecdotally. Yes, we may know people who could not afford to be in. You know, certain neighborhoods if they didn't have a cap on the rent, but people abuse it. So I think a great thing to consider with rent control is to note that it's for everyone. It's not targeted at the people who have you know, really tight affordability constraints. If you're a high income earner, you still get rent control. So you could imagine their ways to improve policy that could still make affordable housing available to a more financially needy population without expanding to everyone will as you say rent control leads to mismatches between tenants and rental unit. Somebody may secure rent controlled unit men, then never leave it. That's exactly right. You face this tradeoff, if you've been in an apartment for a long time, maybe you have a child now or you have a spouse, and you need an extra bedroom, but you may not move and get that correct type of housing because you don't want to give up your rent control. So that ends up putting people in the wrong types of housing in the long run. Yeah. Then what is the solution to? These serious housing crunches in places like Oregon, they have people living in tents and cars, what is a solution if not capping the rent so that they can live there. So I see that there's a short run solution on a long run solution and the long run solution is a fundamental need of more supply of rental housing so easing land. Use restrictions that make it easier for developers to supply that affordable housing and not make it so expensive to comply with all of the local regulations to build that housing is the real long run solution in the short run, you could imagine policies like rent control. Maybe the band aid that you need, but the doesn't necessarily mean you have to force that subsidy payment right directly, idle landlord in other words, allow landlords to raise the rents as, you know, hopefully, not gouging. But in ways that they feel make it worth it for them to have the rental units and not take them off the market, but provide deserve. Tenants with some sort of subsidy to to be able to pay those rents exactly because when you do these types of subsidies through a more traditional government channel, then you can do things like condition them on being low income or condition them on other characteristics of the household, which we do for many other programs and actually Ty the subsidy to people who need it the most. And meanwhile, you mentioned land use loosening restrictions on land use. And that's a huge issue in Oregon where you know, keeping land open is a part of the character of the state. And so, you know, building more affordable housing is a big challenge there Rebecca diamond associate professor at the Stanford graduate school of business a researcher of rent control. I'm sure people are gonna have a lot of Indians about your findings, professor diamond. But thank you. Thanks so much for having me. Get again, Oregon becomes the first in the country with a statewide rent control law, your thoughts. Welcome here now dot org. Here now is a production at NPR and WVU are. I'm Robin young. I'm Jeremy Hobson. This is here now.
Prof. William Renthal, Director of Research at the John Graham Headache Center at Brigham and Womens Hospital of Harvard
"Welcome to the site of accents. Podcast where we explore emerging ideas from signs policy economics and technology. My name is gill. Eappen we talk with woods leading academics and experts about the recent research or generally of topical interest scientific senses at unstructured conversation with no agenda or preparation be color a wide variety of domains. Rare new discoveries are made and new technologies are developed on a daily basis the most interested in how new ideas affect society and help educate the world how to pursue rewarding and enjoyable life rooted in signs logic at inflammation v seek knowledge without boundaries or constraints and provide unaided content of conversations. Bit researchers leaders. Who low what they do. A companion blog to this podcast can be found at scientific sense. Dot com and displayed guest is available on over a dozen platforms and directly at scientific sense dot net. If you have suggestions for topics guests at other ideas please send up to info at scientific sense dot com and i can be reached at gil at eappen dot info district villian rental. Who's director of research at the john. Graham headache center at brigham and women's hospital and assistant professor of urology at hub. Medical school is such focuses on the use of molecule genentech's to shoot expanded geez for headache and pain loganville. Thank you so much screwed to be here. Thanks for doing this island chart that one of your papers from twenty nineteen mike in associated gene expression of cell types of the central and peripheral nervous system. In which you say genome void associations implicated dozens of genes the migraine susceptibility but it remains unclear. Nervous system cell types. This teams have expressed Michelina pain headache This is a very complex disease. Isn't it Ah one of the reasons obviously is. Pain is subjective experiences. Typical to measure And so so you have tubby here on talk a bit about the the study. Yes thank you so much for having me. I think this is a really important topic. And i'm really excited to share Our work with with your community of the biggest challenges that we face with a migraine but really of this could be extended to any pain disorder. where is this problem in your in your body and if you think about the nervous system i mean this this may have seen these pictures of of the nervous system with your brain and extends these inert long runs down your spinal cord and then you see. These branches come offers file corden. Go off into your fingers. And i mean really. Where in this in the in the In this pathway does this paint exists. In where where in particular in amundsen had. Where does that exist. In of get relatively similar a problem for both migraine and and paint general and when we think about migraine. One of the things that's released out for decades now is that this is a highly genetic disorder. There are cases where we have a familial causes migraine where there's really want or maybe a few genes that are passed down from family member a family member that that causes a predisposition but it turns out in In most people is actually what we call poly. genetic disorder meaning jeans are affected imaging's associated with the disease and each one of these genes or variants called Adds a little bit of risk and it's really hard to know exactly where that risk is coming from. When you have a condition like migraine that could potentially exist in many different places by and so one of the things that that my research has focused on is trying to figure out where Where in where in this nervous system migraine migraine actually comes from and so we take it Cake large samples of Of patients who either self reported or physician stuyvesant and and look for variant sitter more associated with with migraine condition compared to controls. And then i'm gonna. What other groups identified as large. Paulina national headache genesis where she just published in the seminal work in space His if identified over hundred variants that are significantly associated with my and no i just it is fascinating so when we think about migraine think about headache but more generally What you're saying is it forty genetic Be don't really know the origin of the problem And the pain could be starting somewhere and then migrating to some other place or something. Those fines right. So when you think about it is this is the susceptibility. A migraine attack occurs on caused because of the peripheral nervous them. Basically these pain fibers you. Think of when you you slice your finger and it sends it singles alway up your arm to your spinal cord to your rain. Is that a problem with those kind of parole nerves. That are already in your face head and round your brain or is it. Something is happening inside. Brain brand self and with migraine really. Don't know the answer to that question And it's a very complicated problem in the answer. Maybe in some people is one way and some other people another place Or everybody has kind of a different mix of all of these relative components and one of the outset. That's one of the major questions in the field. And were hoping that the human genetic information that we were able to accumulate across thousands hundreds thousands of millions of people Guide us and tell us where to look or the majority of patients. And what do you call it. what do you call it. Sort of migraine spectrum. That will. This is how the how a diagnosis done today. While the niners this is actually quite Quite old fashioned in the Am i can trouble for saying that. But it is decades old and in it's really can kylie based on symptoms and so if people have severe headache that oftentimes on one side of her head although can be both This throbbing pulsating sensation and dissociated with other neurologic deficits such as weakness numbness or Or nausea vomiting or light sensitivity or noise sensitivity or sometimes sumita smell or really tennis touch of your scalp symptoms. Were all added together to give you condition we call migrant and so you can imagine there's a lot of heterogeneity in people who might have those seem symptoms in fact some people who have you know head injury reports through similar symptoms and don't have migrated at all People who have infection viral encephalitis sometimes experience. A very similar type head pain But it's not this episode of current conditions at offers. Nearly twenty percent of the population of missing women have so So that's clearly different biology. But maybe it's triggering. These events of perhaps the downstream function of is really quite similar Tween yes i guess run in families. So obviously there's a strong component watch the incidence rate roximately on nearly of its depending on the study up. Nearly twenty percent of the population usually fight heats excited and about one percent. Two percent commissioner will be called chronic migraine patients have more than fifteen migraine gave a month. And that's a very disabling condition on has huge toll on society up both in terms of loss productivity to the economy but also in terms of these lives in really. I'm dramatically affected when half of the days of your wife spent an insecure paint. One in five is is really really really high and so did. The percentage of that that population seeking treatment. I would imagine this. Knox smaller right. That's right i'd say i. It's hard to know exactly the numbers and pens on regions and some cultural differences swell but A lot of on patients are having only called low-frequency migraine so they can take a medicine. The reprise of exists now at ranging from medicines like After i proven all the way to some very new medications seed european cognis. These medications were all very effective in treating these individual attacks in in different patients to different degree of of intervention The patients that i think are most disabled irs. This one to two percent of population haven't migrated tax favorite frequently And into those are the ones that typically show up to a tertiary headache here Center and and often try many different treatments for them. And this is this you know for me. One of the huge goals of my research is to try to nominate an better therapeutics. Also figure out when. I mean right now when i see you know ten or twenty people in a day which which patients should be which treatment and the way we currently make these decisions are by asking people which side effects they prefer the best indus- you know if you think about it. Very very archaic in terms of our approached in the facts. We can now sequencer entire genome and day. And tell you which cancer therapeutics based on this that sequencing your tumor In you know that's just happening in the hall across the way for me infamy on asking people would you rather be asleep all day or would you rather not be able to find words in the morning. This is how. I make my decisions. That i feel very pilot times so one of the things we're really trying to do is figure out. Is there anyway. We can understand a response in patients. You based genetic information or other or other biomarkers very quickly. Negligent painkillers healthier. Do people self clete. I'm just waiting. Backlit twenty percent incidence rate. That seems really i. Most people try Try many chickens before coming to see a physician usually over the counter medicines like ibuprofen or or excedrin Which includes a little bit of caffeine are the typical first line shoots. The people can We'll try now. Oftentimes are effective to some degree You know depends on the security of mirena toxin. Oftentimes this will change throughout individuals Bikes life and so. If that point sometimes people will need to seek care at one stage in their life and otherwise are completely fine. he lost any connection The opioid issue event into so there is a relationship. I it turns out it food. Friday reasons openness has been tried In for treating migraine and quite frankly they're not that effective. But i think a lot of physicians who didn't really keep up with the headache literature retrial. Just before pain in it certainly does make you feel better in the short term. The challenges that chronicle you accuse especially for headache isn't very effective for long term and can actually increase the life of having having more more severe headaches download on road. It's a condition that term medication. Overuse headache which was really classically. Been associated with chronic opiate were vigilant use. The some people have argued that perhaps this condition exists for other Pain relievers as well Such as broken. I think the data for that is a little bit less straw But but certainly for. Opiates pretty good consensus that this connection or senior headache regularly and so going back to the paper so so unique net fifty four mike and associated genes and then all over the place so so what did you find from the study. Yeah major sticking a couple of steps back you what. We're what we're out looking for his. Where is there any re- say this is a major debate. We have it. All of our national conferences international conferences. Not as his migraine in central nervous system where the peripheral nervous system and there are some different camps in our our. Our field in people are constantly arguing in providing support for one versus the other. And i think right. Now there's been support that that both are involved and no one knows where it starts so we were thinking that if we could take people's genetic information maybe we can learn something about what's really the proximal Trigger for this and it turns out that when we look at the genes that are associated with migraine. They are as you said kind of all over. The place of their are their expressed in cells in their expressed in peripheral sessoms center in central. Ron's in so The answer to that question did not But angel debate but perhaps provided some support that People maybe both camps right. And and i think that Maybe different individuals have susceptibility to migrate and his different parts of this pathway. are affected. So maybe some people have neurons in the central nervous system of hyperactive that increased likelihood for For triggering migraine attack in other people may not have anything wrong with their their excitability their central nervous system but their patrons in in their face in and around their head are just really easy to get kind of stimulated get activated a much lower threshold than someone else and so they might experienced the pain associated with migraine much. Much more easily and so. I think that that's why. I'm starting to conceptualize. This and the next step is to try to understand how these individual variants that have been associated with migraine caused suction in the in the salt experts. Thurs i You would it be correct will to think about migraine sort of a diverse set of Diseases that that all have some sort of symptoms. The are using symptoms has a diagnosis. But as you say could originate from many many different parts of the body. Right so are recalling. Mike leads the bucket off from diseases. I think i think that almost certainly there are different categories of migraine within this broad stroke diagnosis for sure The question is what is the most meaningful way to separate people out and right now you know if you respond to the medications used to treat migraines such as sumatra tan or soms new. Cgip antagonists you know me. Were comfortable with calling that migraine but for people who don't respond you know there there. There's a real value to two separate people out to the medications that they were most likely to respond to. I think that's That's that's kind of the next step here is to figure out who's responsible which medication i i should just kind of take a step back and say when people have chronic migraine more fifteen days of this month we often have to start out with one occasion and try another and then another this go on for months and years of trial and error of different medications and in i think that the real value would be if we predict based on what type of migraine a person has which medication most likely to benefit from. That's where the value comes in and separating people based on this type of of their migrant. You have another study Which is which is a therapeutic use for treatment of migrants cgiar receptor monoclonal antibody usage for preventative treatment of migraine. But it has some must severe adverse effects. You talk a bit about And using some somebody to predict who might have an adverse event so one of the things. That's a huge breakthrough in In an are fueled headache and migrate medicine over the past religious last past few years of his in the development of this new medications that target a molecule called. Seizure is gop is A a pen tighter customer. Jean related peptide. That is secreted by some of the pain runs in your head around your body's well and this peptide can create kind of inflammatory responses inside a blood vessels and rounder head in also signal other neurons in your head your brain and what's been found. Is that when people have a migraine attack. This peptide gets released more More frequently and if you inhibit this peptide. It reduces the severity of of migraine lead paint. And it's this work actually was recently just awarded that the brain prize which is really exciting. A thing for fueled and And the dust gators who who made his major some discoveries of received this and And we now have drugs to treat It to the block this pathway both Bockel antibodies that. Just sequester all his teacher in your blood Or monoclonal. Antibodies that bind to the receptor prevent it from being activated and In another even more recently a small molecule intactness block the receptors directly. And so he's kind of all of this tool. Artal has actually been been really effective for large patients but one of the complications is that the the gop peptide is not unique for the paint system. This is also used evolutionist. Repurposes molecules For different systems in your body and and one of the questions we asked was. Can you use these new technologies that are available on our for two single celled nomex to predict where the gop Peptides whiten acting in this therefore might be able to predict some of the artifacts and so we went through some Databases that we and others have venerated and founded perhaps the most highest The part of the body that tends to express the highest lease data subsidy have or actually enteric neurons meeting in certain. Iran's that promote parasol service in your gut need help to by gesture And this let us. I think in early two thousand eighteen proposed that That maybe constipation. a major problem use medications pricing leak in the clinical trials largely or there was a small sigh bone a couple of The major medical clinical trial for rent which is have you seek europe. of moncloa antibodies. I'm really show statistically if you can signal four or prosecution trials and so we were surprised by not as many of us are still. Are that often show up And and given their experience in the world now one of the most common complaints by patients who dayton's -cations the extra just say they're rarely limiting and treatment. Sometimes they are but most people are able to take to take medications to take over the counter supplements to prevent this from being a major problem. But in rare cases it can cause a complete paris complete illnesses and in places where you cannot pass stool And and that's a that's a real medical emergency so this is not been something that has really prevented asians very rare but it is something that that detect in clinical trials in something. That's come out afterwards. And so i think your point about interest to highlight that we many of these things can be predicted ahead of time by By some new singles technologies that use and so so practically. How would it won't so you will you take a blood test or something and it will tell you some sort of probability that you might have. Cd's side effect like concentration yet predict who is going to have a side effect. And who isn't what we're actually proposed in study. Was that these These data sets that have generated both in animal models and also now more increasingly inhuman In tissue human tissues we can use these data sets that are that have that are generated to predict where very targeted there will act. So it's more abuse by the very early stage of clinical develop clinical therapy developments to think about what kind of side effects to To to test for something that will increasingly become a standard both article companies and also perhaps by the fda in requiring people to think about potential toxicology and and other events. So i guess there's some reporting bias I also if you have some expectation of senate type of side effects duty trial you can zach. I mean i think one part of it is a bias from from the patient but placebo responses as well. But i think from the standpoint of just understanding the safety of new molecule i think in searchers become more targeted therapies. I think he's data such will allow us to provide safer treatments or at least more rational characterizations in clinical trials I want to finish up the most. Recent people are as good shnell. Reprogram not distinct sensory neurone sub types affect saw injury So so the injury. Eight acts on s- was Mike thank you. Choose not exactly So this work is a little bit Tangential to to my work and migraine reason. Why i'm working spaces. Because of two reasons. One is absolutely trees are very common. Cause of aids was operative pain or pain. This larson driven by by accidental injury or inflammation taylor area Insulin we're thinking about developing new paint therapeutics For us it was very or model to use to enter you in pain targets and into we think about paint targets that were Perfectly after let's say injury to your leg There's a chance at that. Molecules also expressed in neurons in your head sos systems. We call it. The the eighth lupino might actually slow for both her and pet pain. So that's kind of the link between the two areas of my research and so really on cart among focusing nuking turns to be what exactly our are the parts of neuron that transmit the action potential. So we make me here noor of meter about neurons firing so to see what's happening actually. There's an electrical signal. That's being carried from one part of the sell down a long shot so to speak That connects very near another cell. And that's how the information is processed. There's this eligible some of those down. The accident results in the release of neurotransmitters. The end acts on terminal that then get perceived by the neighboring salem. That's how that's how the communicated from one place in the brain or nerve system to another and i it might not have understood this. Also so how do they get into the about a time you you hit your finger with a hammer or cut us off with a knife. The axioms that earn are part of your per berry inside of your skin That the tech light touch temperature older in these consensus that you have You damage your tissue. The ariane's axa actually get damaged cells and so that that injury sends a bunch youth Molecular signals back to your soul. I smile coordinates your brain That there's been damage that occurs it. Lets you to not attack that lamour finger or whatever. It is the injured from from the environment so that they can heal is obviously a winner in e for pain But cases. Which purely where i come in from clinical standpoint. The pain is carried on for a long period of time after Any type of injury or in head pain. There's really no injury. It's just the systems activated pathologically and so it was a huge amount of research and migrated in other places. Well is really aimed at trying to understand how to turn these crazy neurons off so that in patients who don't have active injury going on We can help them have the lifan. Look i'm sort of trauma to some part of the body results in some sub sort of injury level and even after the body has healed. If i'm sending the the neurons are stocks are still firing and you still have pain so it depends this the port area in in the field. For instance if you see Many patients will go in for some surgical procedure. Neither a knee repair or or all something on that in most people don't know this involves incision and that susan kerr and they'll be sewn up by the surgeon in a few weeks later. There's no pain of michigan. Gone never been stacked global but in a small set of patients for some reason. We don't understand the mechanisms of this those those neurons do not even though the skills and everything most normal those neurons. Don't go back to normal. They continue to fire or bay send signals into the central nervous system. That makes it it. Perceived the signals differently on the process that is called central sensitization. Become sensitized to otherwise innocuous stimuli. Didn't you just because of some kind of rewiring that goes on Or not switch rewiring different fresh alter said in a neuron fires on that makes it fire and more easily. The next time it it gets activated and So this this problem is something that they're trying to understand. And if we understand that. I think that would seem to me. Help situations fiscal crisis. That's going on where we're having to give patients really high doses of medication ride a functional life. That does it. Have to the as via trauma for this to happen. The thought he he severe and and that's another mysterious a serious thing. I mean i guess that's what you need by severe bit me. You'll have to be in the major car accident. It does require injury to build to the Or to the head wherever wherever system talking about major maitree and so going back to the paper up so transcription ucla. Finding suggested transcription factors induced early after political nova jewelry confer the cylinder processes wide for some sweet neurons to transform it to a regional state. So sick would you explain that. A bit Transcription factors are proteins. That are in the nucleus of sell that. Tell the cell wind turn on into high and how much to turn on a given gene and so they're kind of the master regulators of gene expression those jeans or what kind of make the make the which the knicks from teams through the building blocks of of yourself and and so they they set the fresh holds in expression levels for all of us genes and proteins. Things that we really wanted to understand was made this kind of bizarre observation that after Sensory neurons or are are damaged their gene expression profiles dramatically change and it turns out that these genes that are turned on our to Regenerate the he acts on the damaged and so we spent a lot of time trying to understand as processing exquisite eighteen and within different cell types within the sensory neurons many different types. Some detect touch some pets colds and he And so we the math out the responses in each cell types they turned With similar it's still in perth -peutic standpoint it might be really Really useful and we think that in some patients especially thinking about it. Like phantom limb. Pain were at where leg amputated the nerves don't aren't able to regenerate properly because they don't have their end organ to to to to grow back into and in so we think that bag better understanding these mechanisms that drive the generation of the oxo began in some cases. Actually prevent the cells from being hyperactive and an angry of speak after surgical procedures. It's a bit like i eighty value but just like anita carnegie shipment given the wrong the wrong voltage stays on. Turn it off. It seems the is on. You just have to sort of somehow. Try to just that in many of these patients. Unfortunately unlike you can't turned off for very long period of time but we we We do actually administer aesthetics to the parole nerve to try to essentially. Do just like you would with your phone. It's acting weird. Turn it off and then turn back on and see if it gets back to normal and that's exactly the basis of of earth locks. We'll go to the doctor on. Check the of into your leg and poke the nerve comes back. Normal does relief pain. But oftentimes it comes back After days weeks months and instill a very high level so One of the major outstanding holy grails paint medicines to develop tools that will allow us to keep these neurons quiet for longer periods of time without causing the anesthesia. Right because if you imagine why they came in your leg. You can't feel anything that you've you've been touched. Or when the dentist puts noah canaan tooth bite your tongue ios neighbors to not be able to feel in. So what were we in the other trying to do is develop Mccain medicines that will turn these nerves off but not lose the sensation of touch so you can safely anesthetize pain neurons without fattening. The other ones. I don't know what the right term would be will. But this sort of pope ritual neuronal activation in this case because of physical injury Do you think things like this happen. In more you know psychological things like leakiest imprint. It's a different would be kind of sense. So there's a couple of other questions few questions berry in it with the perception of pain on. Perception of pain occurs and ran. This is not something that is driven just by the sensory neurons in your hand. facts are patients. Who have strokes that are in the brain. Don't even involve the the the sensory neurons hanson feeding face a who have chronic really debilitating pain because it affects the pain pathways inconvenient in. So there's clearly neural train your brain that mediates the sensation of pain and it so in more psychological orville classically call psychological conditions. Ptsd or even depression that are very high. Coordinating entity with with heightened pain reports of pain. There may very will be circuit level changes that occur in these he circuits in the brain that That that make you more sensitive reception pain. Even though the stimulus was otherwise the same as it was. let's say before that that condition developed And so i think absolutely there's there's overlap but practice at a different level and what i'm talking about. The acts get injured by trauma. I mean it would be fascinating if you know. It's a some sort of therapeutic approaches. Are overlapping attitude with these trees circuitry. Involved in painted this. In your brain there are of you'll large number of best games of very interested in transcribing nine network's ablation where they can actually activate various regions of your brain and magnet and try to help reduce the sensation. Those pains and i think that's that's worth it's really beginning days. I think those tools come were targeted and more And more powerful Will be able to modify some hits a directly certainly cannon animals others really great work that was done by a new investigator penny. Greg order where he's able to control. How animal perceived pain without actually by turning on or author veron's brain and sections preceding pavement. Just how much they care about the paint truly interesting interesting work. It can during those cells off and give the same mouse. Same stimulus and it doesn't care about pain and then a few minutes later turn those neurons back on and the animals vary affected by the pain. And so i think you're there's there's really exciting work at the basic animal of will go on on an area right now but Worth so little ways away before clinical translation about network. It was lucien. Will i know that your lab is doing lot of work in the city. As if you look forward five years You'd think the most likely to make significant discoveries in regard to migraine. I think there's some really exciting work. That's helping us understand that you might likely begins in the hype fouls which is an important and formal regulatory part of your brain and think that there's really exciting work that's That's coming out looking at a height role found as some of the hormones regulated by the hypothalamus reminder. I also think that You are a variety of a large group studies out with regards the genetics of migraine. That i think will help. Point new point us towards new directions that previously maybe overload or not known about And i think from a from the perspective of pain. The there's the new single soldier nomadic technologies that we have are kind of unable to for the first time learn what molecules are expressed in neurons. That transmit pain versus other neurons will really lead to explosion tools and intentionally therapeutics that will allow us very selectively. Modify these cells without affecting others will without affecting other senses. And i think they're look for those few years and we can touch back again. Hopefully we'll have at least so. Yeah that just the leap. So sort of understanding at the molecule level. Want what happens I think you're are getting Maybe more and more information of genetics aspect of it but Of the machine works making mystically still still got the nice think because we cannot go inside people's brains individual level an essay specific neurons. You i think we really are limited to the things we can ask people about words with with imaging of their brains during various tasks and their keats and we can. Those are the things we can actually directly test of an individual and so we have to use work in other organisms to piece those pieces together. So that's that's where we are. I think There's larvae exciting work going on now. Thanks to advances in optogenetics allows to turn certain neurons on and off very rapidly and i think will be able to understand these circuits just a matter of time excellent. Yeah this is great. Thanks so much for spending time with me. This is a scientific sense. Podcast providing conversations with leading academics and researchers on a variety of topics. If you like to sponsor this podcast please reach out to info. At scientific sense dot com.
Sex(ism), Drugs, and Migraines
"Hello and welcome distillation 's a podcast powered by the science history institute, I'm Alexis Patrick and I'm Lisa berry. Drako each episode distillation takes a deep dive into a moment of science related history. In order to shed some light on the present. Today. We began in the middle ages where the story of one extraordinary woman might help us understand a present day health problem when you're making your list of bad ass feminists throughout history. Don't forget to include the twelfth century German. None Saint Hildegard von Binggen because she was bad ass. She was a poet a scholar a writer composer, healer and herbalist scientist, mystic and. Yeah. In the sense of proto feminist during her lifetime. She challenged the patriarchy founded two monasteries wrote books about the allergy ecology natural science medicine and even gardening. Oh, and also she composed hundreds of hymns and songs. People continue to. Veer her centuries later, she actually has a seat at the feminist table. Judy Chicago's dinner party the seminal work of art from the nineteen seventies. You can go. Visit her place setting at the Brooklyn museum longside Susan B anthonys journal, truth Virginia Woolf and sack. Julia there multiple movies and books about her and in twenty thirteen the indie psychedelic folk musician Devendra band heart even wrote a song about her Hildegard von Bing, and did a lot of impressive things. But one thing about her stood out. She's more well known for her visions, which at the time where told to have more, heavenly origin labor with great sweat with his vision. I am fear. Gentle God to tweet what I want to say he'll to guard documented her visions in an illustrated manuscript called skivvies. It was just one of the book. She wrote you'd be impressive for anyone to do all the things that Hildegard von Bank, and did, but she did them all while suffering from chronic illness and pain on and off for most of her life. The mysticism drew so many people to her. It was connected to her illness. When you look at her visions becomes clear that she had or or of migraine. Nine hundred years after Hildegard von being an experienced vision slash migraines. The condition still mystifies us today. An Hoffman is a reporter professor and chronic migraine sufferer and over the past year, she's been tracing the history of migraines to try and understand them to see if she can find any clues about a treatment that actually worked for her in stern took her in some interesting directions, and one common theme that she found a whole lot of stigma. Chapter one the migraines begin an Hoffman takes it from here. A few months ago my boyfriend, Andy, and I were sitting in a rented car driving on the freeway in central California. The evening was warm. The scenery idyllic we just pass through San Luis Obispo. It was shrouded in mist gorgeous. But I couldn't stop worrying the one thought I couldn't get out of my head. What if I lose my vision right now while I'm driving on this unfamiliar highway. Some version of this had been playing constantly in my mind for the past few months. The worry attacked me while I was teaching while I was on deadline, even as we sat with friends over for dinner. I get chronic migraines migrants affect up to one in seven people mostly women, in fact, about three times more women than men they have a huge impact on society. They make you call out sick from work and they negatively affect the economy, but for all the pain, they cause they're still shrouded in mystery. But here a few things that we do know about them migrants aren't just bad headaches there are neurological disorder most migrants involve throbbing on one side of the head during an attack sufferers are typically sensitive to light and loud noises, and they said many sufferers to dark room to rest. We know that people with migraines. Get nauseous they might vomit migrants offers are twice as likely to experience epilepsy and vice versa. An top of all. These dramatic symptoms migrants. Offers don't get the same social understanding and acceptance as people with things like epilepsy or diabetes and worse. They're usually met with stigma. Perhaps most dramatic of all the more migrants. You get the more likely you are to get more migraines. It's a vicious cycle migrants can put me out for days. But the thing I hate the most is the vision loss, it's called an aura most migrants offers. Don't get them. I'm in the minority the come before the pain phase, it starts with me seeing zigzag pattern and over time. I can't really see anything at all. Sometimes it's just a big fuzzy blur. Sometimes I see fireworks and pin wheels exploding rapidly. If I keep my eyes open, I get so nauseous that I wanna throw up this used to happen once a year, but sometime are on Christmas of twenty seventeen. I started getting these Auras at least twice a month. There's no one cure or treatment plan for migraines. So by February I tried a lot of things and the migrants were only increasing in frequency. Chapter two the medical history of migraines. Also sexism. Ancient Egyptian scripture is from twelve hundred BC this painful migraine like headaches, the ancient Greek doctor mockeries, you know, the guy who's called the father of modern medicine and the one who actually wrote the Hippocratic oath, he talked about headaches visual disturbances, aka Auras around four hundred BC, but it wasn't until the second century AD that migraines were officially discovered by the Greek doctor ARTAS of capita. She now he described them as effective one side of the head description that still rings true and this led to the term migraine which comes from the Greek word hemmitt cranial or half skull after a few thousand years, you'd think we might know more about migrants than we do and McGregor is a doctor who specializes in women's health and headaches and London, and she gets migraines herself the very first make an attack hut. I was at I was a medical student to the. Time. And I was actually in hospital at the time I've been unwell, and I could suddenly see this very bright lights zigzagging across my field division. It started just this. This white bright bright spot. And I thought I had a stroke. A ready did not know what was wrong with me. And I spoke to the the medical team about to the doctors. And they said were they didn't really know what it was as well and thinks suggestions for how to treat. Migraines can be unhelpful at best and harmful at worst. If you went to the listen to everything where you read everything about managing headaches. You'd never be to live too. Because people be telling you the county cheesy Conti chocolate you can't drink any alcohol. You can't do this. You can't do that. It's already really negative in popular imagination migrants have become a woman's illness. Even though we know that migraines affect men to we know that doctors underestimate female pain, and that could explain why we just know less about migraines. They aren't studied as much as other chronic illnesses throughout history the causes and treatment of migraines have been linked to superstition. In the middle ages Hildegard von Bing in thought her migrant or as revisions messages from God. She called them reflections of the living light these mysteries. One does which I reveal to you what previously unknown. But I show and give them to you now. So that you may make them known to the burning hearts of the faithful. Around this time migrants also became associated with witchcraft in the eighteenth century migrants were tied to race and class. Wealthier people were thought to have more delicate nervous systems, you might be with your you might be more creative more musical more literary. But it came with the stone side that you might get sick more often, you might be more fragile. Joanna Kempner is a sociologist who wrote a book about migraines called not tonight migraine and the politics of gender and health and she lives with migraines herself. In contrast, people who were working class would have thought to have more rope year thicker nerves like actually physiologically rope your nerves, and those nurse made people sturdier, and it meant that they didn't feel pain as much, but it also meant that they weren't they were like slower in thinking. And if you were a person who was from Africa and perhaps asleep in the new world, the belief was that your nerves were so thick and ropy that you can feel pain at all. And of course, that would mean that you wouldn't have very quick thoughts. So this whole notion of of what nervous systems Jide and how they transmit a pain was the kind of basis for this race race. Class hierarchy in the scientific notions of race. And this idea grows in the nineteenth century, so people with nervous temperament who have migraine like the the leat an intellectuals, particularly men are people who if you've never permit. You might be creative. You might be able to think really quickly, but you might get struck by migraine if you do too much of that work like if you're doing too much writing you might need to take a break because that will bring on a migraine today me that migrants mostly affect women, but one of the most influential migraine, researchers focus mostly on men his name was Harold wolf. And he's considered the father of headache medicine in the nineteen thirties and forties. He developed a concept known as the migraine personality. And that's an idea that still around today. The reason why he is revered in headache medicine now because he was very scientific about understanding migraine he did a lot of experiments demonstrating that migraine was actually by logical and. Linked to changes in cranial vascular wolf suffered from migrants himself. And it seems like he projected his own personality onto the disease. He worked at Cornell Medical school on New York's upper east side. So he saw mostly wealthy people people who were highly successful and hardworking people like him. And so he started to think about people with migraine as ambitious successful perfectionist and officiant he thought they were good people good moral character. And he thought they were linked to the cranial vascular because these people get stressed out and their cranial vascular would kinda get a tight. And then when they finally were able to relax cranial vascular would get too big it would expand. And that would be the migraine. And so he would suggest to them that they should go play some squash every afternoon, he was mostly talking about his male patients, which I found interesting. I thought that he was going to be talking completely about women, but a medicine people. I found physicians mostly talked about their men male patients, and I think that this was fairly typical. But here's where things could even weirder. He theorized that women with migraines were inadequate wives and mothers. He saw them as chronically unsatisfied housewives aim capable of completing socially conscripted wifely duties. That's right. I'm talking about sex. He talked about them as frigid when he talked about his male patients with migraine and their sex lives. He also fought that they were sexually unsatisfied. But of course, he thought that was because they had wives who wouldn't have sex with them. So one of the things that I see throughout migraine medicine is that this very gendered and really incredibly sexist way of saying that people with migraine when they have problems, the Ben it's always about, you know, they're using their brain or studying too hard. They're writing things that are like two brilliant and the women like they should not be thinking at all. And you know, there's something wrong with their. The way they have sex. In the nineteen sixties and nineteen seventies were panels full of physicians who openly talked about putting their migraine. Patients in psychiatric facilities women with migraines became women with mental illness. So it's not surprising that in our current era. Kempter herself was amazed to be treated with respect by doctors ITO menus ago. When I was first getting into the field, I had been come. So accustomed to having my pain dismissed, by physicians, and so a customer to be treating to to having been treated like neurotic woman that when I went to my first headache conference. I was shocked to see that. There were pictures of brains everywhere. I couldn't believe that all of these headache doctors were taking migraine. So seriously. I don't know what I expected like maybe I thought that they would all just be laughing at me like I was. So I was like, wow. Look at all these people taking this pain. I have. Seriously. It felt great. But at the same time Kempner notice that doctors talked about how people with migraines were different. They said the brains couldn't handle things like changes in weather or estrogen. I was like, oh, I see what they're trying to do. They're trying to be helpful. But I was worried about that. And I didn't think that actually sounded that much different than the things I was reading through history. It's always still about the person with migraine trying to protect themselves against these external forces. You gotta protect your brain against everything malevolent that's happening around it. And the thing about putting the causes of migraine on the individual is that it also puts the responsibility for solution or belief on the individual migraine medication is advertise much like many other Masud goal ads usually almost always it's white women. And they're done up in such a way that you think maybe they're much richer than you are migraines aren't just bad headaches steal moments from my life. This is an advertisement for. Excedrin? There's a white woman lying in bed. She's rubbing her temples and the room is dark her cell phone beeps, and it shows a photo of her husband child it works fast and lasts for hours. Excedrin specializes in treating migraines. Which is why moments lost? Migraines are moments gained with excedrin by showing all of these women not doing the thing. They're supposed to do like taking care of children or being there for their family or being at work. The really ignoring the fact that most people with migraine or most people's chronic pain are actually showing up all the time and doing their work and taking care of what they need to care for as best. They can maybe it's not always pretty, and maybe it doesn't always look great. And maybe it's not the best of the way they want to do it. But people in pain are warriors. migrants play on the sense of guild where women are supposed to be devoted wives. Mothers and employee's migraine robs them of this migraine medication is the answer. Even though we know that no medication is perfect. Not even remotely. Chapter three a historic remedy. Most migraine drugs. Don't actually stop migraines. They help prevent them or reduce the severity of the symptoms for a long time. They weren't even specifically for migraines. They were drugs designed to treat high blood pressure, epilepsy or depression, see, you can probably guess that. They were not a perfect solution. Here's an I take beta blockers. Beta blockers are an old school blood pressure medication that help reduce the number of migraines for some people and doctors aren't sure why. But they come with some undesirable side effects. Some of the ones I've experienced have been depression, weight gain a slower heart rate and an overall sense of moving more slowly. So I started wondering if there wasn't something better out there something without so many side effects. Maybe something unconventional one idea that I started hearing about a lot seemed really promising. The only problem was that it was a legal or at least exists in a legal gray area. That's right. I'm talking about pot Ganga. We'd Malta refir- cannabis. Through friend of a friend. I met a woman who works in the cannabis industry in California. Her name is Erica Kelly. Erica suffered from terrible migraines. And she was kid. She told me the story of her first one she was ten years old and her family was moving. I couldn't even do simple things like get little bags out from the car and take them into the house at all. I was completely debilitated. I'm revealing so bad 'cause my brother's move my stuff around Kelly's family got her the best possible care. She went to the mayo clinic she was in my green studies. She was even put on trip tans until recently. Those were the only drugs that were just for migraines. But nothing helped Erica long-term. And when she turned twenty five her migrants star getting worse. She started getting cyclic vomiting syndrome, her migraine spread her abdomen. She threw up every twenty minutes until she was so depleted. She had to go to the hospital. Then someone gave her a cannabis tincture for anxiety associated for that. But I didn't even realize just after a while I noticed that my headaches gone. I just wasn't getting them. It was like a month went by. And then two months, and then six months, and then a year and then two years, and you know, up until our I I do not get headaches anymore. Erica story made cannabis seem like a miracle drug, and she wasn't the only one talking about it this way. I started thinking maybe I should try to. When I was talking to an McGregor the headaches specialist we heard from earlier tentatively asked her about medical cannabis for migraines and contrary to my expectations. She didn't shut me down. She told me that it could be promising either to prevent them or stop them after they've started. But then she explained big caveat. Marijuana is a schedule one drug in the US it's in the same category as heroin which makes it really hard to study here. And the US is were most clinical trials happen to wanna Kempner told me the same thing. The restrictions on clinical trials from marijuana are such that research has been essentially squashed, and this is made it very challenging for people who want to use cannabis for migraine treatment in headache medicine. There's a growing consensus bat cannabis is a very useful drug for migraine. But we just need more research. And in fact, I think the federal government would be doing everyone a great service if they would loosen these regulations and fund that research, particularly since it's going to be difficult to get from sickle industries, very interested in funding research on drugs that have existed for a long time. Hey, guys, Alexis here. I just wanna cut in for a moment and say that we could do a whole episode just about medical marijuana. Frankly, we could do a whole series. We could devote an entire podcast in perpetuity to Justice subject, but for this episode. Here's what you need to know, the cannabis plant is complicated. It contains hundreds of chemicals, and they all do different things. Maybe we actually don't even know yet before the story. We're going to focus on two main chemical compounds CBD and THC delta nine tetrahydrocannabinol or THC is the main psychoactive compound in cannabis while it has therapeutic uses its best known as the part of the plant that gets you high Canepa dial or CBD is the second most prominent compound found in the cannabis plant, and it's all the rage right now, you've probably seen it on store shelves in the forms of oil. Nls tinctures were CBD gummy bears even in places where it's not quite legal people are excited because it seems like it may be an anti inflammatory. And it's now being touted as a way to treat chronic pain, anxiety in a whole lot of other things back to an. Harvard Medical School says the strongest scientific evidence for CBD's effectiveness lies with treating what they say are some of the cruelest childhood epilepsy syndromes, which typically don't respond to anti-seizure meds. Joanna Kempner says epilepsy and migraines or close to a logical cousins. So I wondered if the fact that CBD can help with seizures means it might be able to help with migraines. I was hopeful. And there have been a few small studies looking into cannabis for migraine 's in Italian study found that after giving a small group of migraine patients CBD oil with a little THC. They reported slightly fewer migraines than the group who took an antidepressant. Another small study in Colorado found that among one hundred twenty one patients the frequency of migraine headaches decreased with regular cannabis use. There's a lot of talk right now about CD in its medicinal potential. And since I was pinning my hopes on it for my migraines. I wanted to understand how it worked. Scientifically, and I was surprised to learn that it's not the only therapeutic part of the cannabis plant. It turns out THC does more than just get you high THC gets you high, and it also reduces pain. Margaret Haney is a cannabis researcher. She teaches neurobiology at Columbia University Medical Center and CBD. You know, it's not it's not morphine by any stretch. But it does you know, it does reduce pain. She says that will see has pain relieving potential what people are buying dispensaries. And in stores might not be strong enough. You know, so what's being sold is often at a much much much lower dose than what any of us think is going to be medically effective plus many marijuana marketers claim to have CB only products. But the reality is often, very different. And so some things will say CBD end have THC in them and very little CBD, or it's you know, there's people making money, and it's an unregulated marketplace. So it's it's not surprising, anybody that things are not going to be with what you think they are scientists know how THC works in the body, but they're still trying to figure out exactly what's going on with CBD. Delta ninetieth see by institute places in our brains and our bodies, the CB one and CD two receptors. It's affects are quick. That's why if you smoke a joint, you might all of a sudden, very happy, you might laugh, it's a rapid process, but CBD doesn't seem to be working like that. But CBD is still a very complex compound pharmacologically. So it's not it's not binding to the same CB one receptor seems to be binding to a bunch of other things. So it's it's much more complicated form ecology and Haney says it's likely that people need to consume CBD over time to feel it's affects. So I actually am excited about CBD for a certain number of indications that I want to I want to see good research on but the hype is far far far in excess of the reality. The problem is that even though there is some good research on cannabis and cabinets from the last twenty years the legal limbo marijuana exists in has dampened scientists ability to do rigorous research, and that's a huge loss. Because Canabal noise seem to be good at treating one thing that is notoriously difficult to treat. The National Academy of sciences really just has published an evaluation of all the science for all the different indications people think of that kind of might be useful for and the top of the list, and the, you know for which there is decent data is pain. But there's no indication of how much when or in what form someone like me should take the drug. So there's still work to be done to figure things out. It's funny that ants in the position she's in because treating migraines with cannabis isn't new not by a long shot Chinese and Indian scholars commented on marijuana's ability to treat neuralgic pain almost two thousand years ago, and the ancient Greeks wrote about its powers to and nine hundred years ago, our favorite feminist mystic. Nun Hildegard von Bengin wrote about growing cannabis in the garden of the monastery where she lived in a medical book. She called physical hem is hot it grows where the air is neither very hot nor very cold. And so is its nature its seed is salubrious in goodest treat for healthy people, whoever has an empty brain and head pains may eat it and the head pains will be reduced. The first person to introduce marijuana to modern western medicine in a major way was the Irish doctor WB shock nece- he experimented with cannabis in India or the drug was commonly used he experimented on animals and even children, and he also began using marijuana to treat rheumatism and cholera one property of the drug a- shock nece- noticed is that even if marijuana didn't cure a patient. It seemed to lower his anxiety about his illness. It also had strong analgesic or painkilling effects in eighteen ninety John Russell Reynolds, then president of the British Medical Association wrote that migrants sufferers should injust hemp every day to prevent attacks kind of was legitimate medical treatment back then as it was not just in Britain. But in the United States. But we don't have any traditional memory offense. Now. Brian MaGee ni is a neurologist and headache specialist in Boston. He'll rates about the history of treating migraines with cannabis what's going on those talked about as a a new thing. When really it's a recurrence of something. That was in pharmacies. Many many decades ago. Mckinney says some form of marijuana was available in pharmacies in the US Britain and France during the nineteenth and early twentieth. Centuries in the second half of the nineteenth century, you could get it in some grocery stores in the US. He says there weren't many good treatments for headaches. Then and marijuana was value neutral remember at the time, the wasn't a political or cultural negative vibe about is like it is today. chapter four the stigmatization of marijuana. Also racism. Wanting interesting thing about the concept of pharmacopoeia, which is essentially, you know, the materials that a group of healers or a society, our culture has identified as those things that have medicinal properties. Matt Crawford is a historian of medicine and associate professor at Kent state university. He was also a research fellow at the science history institute in two thousand seventeen and pharmacopoeia can take official forms, but some historians and scholars have started thinking about, you know, sort of informal pharmacopoeia, as you know, that that a society our culture may not formally right down or produce. But that exists right? Cannabis was entered into the United States pharmacopoeia in eighteen fifty as a treatment for a host of things including cholera rabies, alcoholism opiate, addiction insanity. Excessive menstrual bleeding neuralgia. And virtually any disease that induced convulsions, but soon after that publishing it's time in the sun started to fade, and as we all know, it's no longer in our formal pharmacopoeia, although that may be slowly changing as more states legalize medical marijuana. It's fall out of favor comes back to stigma this time, the racist kind and behind it was a man named Harry and Slinger treasury department intends to pursue relentless warfare against the despicable dope. Fending raise on the witness off his linger was the first Commissioner of the Federal Bureau of narcotics. Now when he took the job in nineteen thirty prohibition was on its way out and their speculation that he was worried he'd be out of a job if he was only going after cocaine and heroin. So he wanted to make all drugs illegal including cannabis. He made it a mission and to try and get federal legislation. Against marijuana, and he succeeded answering your painted a picture that cannabis would make everyone who smoked it insane. This idea was echoed in the nineteen thirty six anti-marijuana propaganda film. Reefer madness the film portrayed the drug is dangerous and a gateway drug heroin appreciable, boys. Having a half of the local soda innocent glee they danced innocent of a new and deadly menace lurking behind closed doors. The burning weed when its roots in hell answering are spread an anti cannabis message that stoked people's worst fears, which brings us to as other argument about the drug based on racism and Lincoln preyed on racist fears and associated cannabis with Mexican immigrants in jazz musicians further stoking people's prejudices, he racialist marijuana doing so has had lingering effects would most of us. Call the drug today marijuana, what did people call it before ends lingers campaign cannabis many believe he used the Spanish word for the drug. So that it would be associated specifically with Mexicans the fearmongering worked in nineteen thirty seven congress passed the marijuana tax act. Here's an McGregor again. So that anybody who was she using marijuana even for medical reasons had to pay a significant tax and therefore? It deceased being used as it then became recognized as as drug of abuse it, then went completely out of fashion because nobody wants to touch it. Because the the social connotation it turns out how we think about drugs depends on who we think is doing the drugs. Beyond simple racism. There's a theory. Matt Crawford told me about that helps explain the stigma of cannabis it holds that cannabis encourages behavior that goes against our fundamental values Americans and our puritan ideals. Those values are hard work reliability devotion to religion and capitalism. Anyone who has ever used cannabis can tell you that it does not tend to promote these behaviors part of the problem with some of these psychoactive drugs is that they can induce a state of in- intoxication where you lose control of your faculties. Right. You're no longer a rational actor. Right. And if you compare something like marijuana or open to caffeine, right? I mean, that's a drug that many of us consume every day on a daily basis. Will why is that because it wakes us up? It gives us energy, right? Hit it. Makes us good actors in a productive, you know, sort of capitalist society. Right. We're ready to go into the cubicle and do our work. Listening to Matt Crawford reminded me of what Joanna Kempner said about women failing to live up to their roles and it got me thinking when you take normal migraine meds. You can go about your day, or at least that's the hope but won't happen. If I tried cannabis for my migraines in Pennsylvania medical cannabis is now legal but migraines are a qualifying condition. I can't just walk into a dispensary and buy it in moments of desperation. I've considered buying it on the street in Philadelphia where I live, but I know that the typical cannabis grown for St. sales has been cultivated to get the user high non necessarily to relieve their pain. So I wonder how much it would help me. And I worry that. If I went down this path I'd pay a price for getting rid of my migraines. I worry, I might lose my productivity the sphere, isn't unfounded. I've heard stories from patients saying as much the irony is that this ability to care less including about their migraines is actually. Something doctors wont for migraine patients. That's why antidepressants help them the difference. Is that antidepressants usually make people more productive, not less? So what I need is for someone to hurry up and figure out which part of the cannabis plant, and how much of it will bring me relief without making me stoned. But to get to this point it needs to be easier for researchers to conduct clinical trials. Here's an McGregor. Again. Certainly it would seem totally logical fo- people to have access to a medicinal base marketed. Regulated compound that you knew had exactly the right toast with quality is showed than it is for people to feel like that disappearing round cone is to buy stuff off of the street and then be ostracized for doing. So another problem with the long shadow of the drug stigma is that even in states where medical marijuana is legal. It's politicians not doctors who get to decide which conditions qualify. So there are many states when medical medical marijuana was introduced it was the lawmakers that were deciding what could be used for and where to couldn't maybe that's a failure of the medical system. Because once we allow politicians to to write indications. You know, where you know, who are we as physicians and in order to. Appease the naysayers some of the states have very restrictive appropriate clinical indications for the use of cannabis, and it's really a mockery McGregor said something that I thought was a really important point even without further research. We know a lot about cannabis already, including about its safety in one of the major factors is that medicinal grade Connecticut's have very few side effects, the safe. But the stuff that you might buy from the unqualified people may not be safe. Chapter five the resolution. Back in March a few days after I worried obsessively that I might lose my vision on the highway my boyfriend, Andy, and I arrived in northern California in San Francisco, I decided to check out a fancy dispensary will he stayed at our rental. The is looked like a richer version of me one guy was buying a few joints for Friday night at home. I talked to the owner I told him about my migraines. He said he had the exact same condition. He recommended that. I use a tincture of CBD with a little THC. I was still deeply skeptical. But I was also increasingly desperate I opted to part with eighty six dollars. And by the pricey little tincture. Why not? A few days later on a cold night in San Francisco, the second migraine in as many days disabled, my vision will Andy and I were trying to watch a documentary I was terrified by the prospect of more pain. So for the first time ever, I tend to be placed one drop of that CBD oil under my tongue that drop made my body feel warm all over I felt grounded slightly euphoric and the pain in my face and head fell away in minutes, the migraine cycle which can last for days just ended right there for the month. My little bottle of CBD oil lasted I didn't get any migraines. I can't prove that CBD and CBD alone helped me, but I was ready to believe I'm in the process of getting my medical marijuana card not for migraine, but for chronic pain, as a migrant are I spent a lot of time searching in the dark for anything that can bring me relief. I don't know why the drugs that worked for me work, but I use them anyway. Because not using them means living with a constant threat of terrible pain. Not using them would be living a smaller and smaller life, so tinker. I read up on things, I experiment on myself. And I do the best I can nine hundred years later. It's not all that different. From what Hildegard von bingen was doing in the eleven hundreds in the garden of her. Medieval monastery. For just elation. I'm an Hoffman. Lisa. We've covered a lot of ground. I mean, really a lot. So I mean, what do you think what are your thoughts? I just think it's so fascinating that medical cannabis is something that's very hot right now, and the sort of mainstream medical world is really starting to investigate it. And it's literally thousands of years old. We we've known about it. I've known that it can help that has their properties for thousands of years. But if you think about it narrows down to this one very specific moment in time, the nineteen thirties, very specific law enforcement perspective has just caught us off from this whole area of investigation. We didn't for decades and decades investigate the properties of cannabis we pursued all these other things these other kinds of drugs got investigated, all these other pathways got investigated. But not this one we've spent all this time now rediscovering this idea of cannabis as treatment, but it also. Feels like time wasted. Like, why don't we ever learn from the past and not throw away all of our knowledge, it feels like a bit of a waste to start from scratch every hundred years or so. Absolutely. And I also find I find it interesting as we went through that so many of the stories of migraine researchers and people people investigating these stories they suffer from migraines. So this problem for them is so personal another thing that this podcast often. Does is we try to break down that myth of objectivity that science is personal can be personal? And even in many cases, should be personal that personal side of things should be acknowledged. That's was driving their passion for this. That's what makes them wanna find hope if anything bringing more acknowledging that war can help break down the stigmas that we've talked about in this episode. Hopefully, so I think we could talk about feminists nuns migraines in canvas literally forever, right? Definitely. But sadly, we have to leave you so tune in next time and remember distillation is more than a podcast. We're also. A multimedia magazine, you can find our videos blog and print stories distillation dot org. And you can also follow the science history institute on Facebook, Twitter and Instagram. This episode was reported by an Hoffman's, and it was produced by Mariel car, and Rigo Hernandez Ginette BB was our fact checker and Dan Drako did additional audio production. There's a lot of research that goes into each episode of distillation, and we keep a list of everything and everyone we read watch listen to and talk to on our website. So check it out for dislocations. I'm Alexis, Patrick, and I'm Lisa berry. Drako? Thanks for listening.
The Lust Killer Pt 1: Jerry Brudos
"This episode is brought to you by the completely reimagined twenty twenty four to escape with Ford co-pilot three sixty a suite of advanced standard driver assist technologies. It's built to help you outsmart some of the obstacles. You'll encounter out on the road. They're smart and then they're street-smart the completely reimagined twenty twenty Ford escape due to the graphic nature of this killer's crimes listener. Discretion is advised this episode includes discussions of murder and assault that some people may find offensive. We advise extreme caution for children under thirteen. It was a cold and rainy. January night in nineteen sixty eight in aloha Oregon a suburb just outside of Portland. Linda's Lawson a pretty nineteen year. Old Woman made her way up. A dimly lit street weighed down by the heavy carrying case in her hand. She had come to a low of from Rochester Minnesota looking for sunshine and an easy west coast lifestyle instead. She found endless days of gloomy weather and a dead end job. Selling Encyclopedias exasperated. Linda paused under a streetlamp and reached into her purse looking for the slip of paper bearing the address of a potential customer then. A drop of rain smeared. The ink was at fifteen forty one or fourteen fifty one. All of the houses on the tidy suburban St looked the same just as she was about to give up and head home. Linda spotted a man. He was tall and broad standing in a yard. A few houses down. He waved unlikely that it was her intended customer. But Linda didn't care she wanted out of the rain. Demand invited Linda inside and let her down to a basement workshop. His wife and children were upstairs. He explained they could be quite noisy and he wanted to chat somewhere quiet where they wouldn't be disturbed Linda hesitated. The man was big but looked harmless. Andy seemed intent on buying a set of encyclopedias. Money was tight one sale could cover her rent and in any event. The man's family was just within shouting distance. Linda descended the creaky basement stairs behind him. Never to emerge again at least not in one piece. Hi I'm Greg pulsing. This is serial killers a podcast original every Monday. We dive into the minds and madness of serial killers today. Were digging into the story of Jerry. Bhutto's a murderer sadist and fetishists who's horrific crimes shocked a peaceful corner of the Pacific Northwest. I'm here with my co host Vanessa. Richardson Hi everyone. You can find episodes of serial killers and all other podcast originals for free on spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts to stream. Serial killers for free on spotify. Just open the APP and type serial killers in the search bar at podcast burke grateful for you our listeners. You allow us to do it. We love let us know how we're doing reach out on facebook and Instagram. At podcast and twitter at podcast network. And if you enjoy today's episode the best way to help us to leave a five star review. Wherever you're listening it really does help. Jerry Broncos also called the shoe fetish slayer killed at least four women in the state of Oregon between nineteen sixty eight and nineteen sixty nine. He's best known for wearing his victims high heels and undergarments after doing away with their bodies. This week will cover Bruce's early life. His progression from petty thief to Sexual Sadist and his first kill next week we'll delve into his other murders and the trail of evidence that eventually placed grotto's behind bars for the rest of his life. Jerry Brutus was born Jerome Henry Brutus in Webster South Dakota in nineteen thirty nine. The Great Depression had decimated the labor market of rural sparsely industrialized. Places like webster in a desperate search for Opportunity Brutus. His Father Henry moved his wife and two sons to the Willamette Valley region of Oregon the industrial heart of the state. This was an unstable time for the brutalises though the depression had officially ended jobs remained scarce as Henry brutal sought work. The family bounced from town to town throughout the valley. Henry Bruce often worked two or more jobs to keep his family float. This meant leaving his two boys. Almost exclusively in the care of his wife who was purported to have had quite a temper. Eileen Bhutto's favored her eldest son Larry to her youngest jerry. Already having a perfect son Larry. Eileen had desperately wanted a little girl because Jerry was born a boy she resented him for it. He grew up hated by his mother for something entirely beyond his control. Vanessa's going to take over on the psychology here and throughout the episode please note. Vanessa is not a licensed psychologist or psychiatrist. But she has done a lot of research for this show according to criminologist Scott. Bon serial killers are sometimes compelled to commit murder by a deep fear of rejection. This often springs from the relationship most central to their life from a young age their relationship with their mother someone who experiences maternal rejection as a child may grow into an adult who actively seeks to destroy those that remind him of his mother effectively eliminating such women before they have the opportunity to dismiss him. But Jerry Brutus. His relationship with his mother is only part of far more complex portrait of a future. Serial killer at the core of brucellosis drive to kill was an early fascination with women's clothing and accessories particularly high heeled shoes and undergarments. When he was five years old. Brutus was playing in dump near his home and came across a pair of discarded patent leather heels. He brought the heels home and wore them around the house when I leaned discovered this new habit. She Berated Bhutto's mercilessly and ordered him to throw out the shoes but this ban transformed high heeled shoes from an everyday object to a forbidden taboo. It only made the shoes that much more tempting to brutus. Rather than discard the heels. He hid them and wore them in secret eventually. Eileen Qatar's on his continued cross dressing and she flew into a rage she rebuked brutus viciously and forced him to watch as she burned the shoes according to journalist. Lars Larson one of the few individuals to interview Jerry. Br Dose in prison Bruce Internalized this incident as a message of very strong disapproval from his mother. He learned that wearing high heels as a boy was wrong and dirty again. I leans reaction only fueled. The boys fixation footwear and its association with this mother's rage would eventually serve as the basis for Bruce's developing sexuality. Not long after I leaned. Bhutto's burned her son's first pair of heels jerry brutal sought to replace them one day as a young family friend. Napped with a pair of heels on brutus tried to pull them off of her feet when she awoke she was startled to see the small boy at her feet attempting to pry away her shoes kicking him aside. She ordered him to leave the room marking his mind. Another significant moment rejection involving shoes later. When Brutus was a teenager the family moved to grants. Pass Oregon. Their new neighbors had a number of daughters and brutus often snuck into the girls bedrooms to play. With their clothing his fetish grew to include bras underwear girdles and other feminine intimates and. Soon Brutus wanted access to women's clothes and shoes all the time so he began to steal them off from neighbors clothing lines eventually. He amassed a substantial stash which he kept carefully hidden from the watchful eye of his mother. It's important to note that the active wearing clothes and accessories typically associated with the opposite. Sex is not in and of itself wrong or indicative of a criminal or ill mind. Humans have partaken in so-called Cross dressing for centuries as part of theatrical productions or as part of Drag Queen Culture which is itself considered a form of performance art likewise it is important to understand the difference between cross dressing and transgenderism crossdressing. Strictly refers to the behavior of wearing clothes associated with the opposite sex however a transgender individual is someone who's personal gender identity does not correspond with their sex ED birth. There's no evidence that Jerry Brutus was. Transgender and his behavior should not be conflated with other culturally permissive forms of cross dressing around the time brutal started practicing his own devious form of crossdressing. He also began concocting sexually violent fantasies. The victim was always young and female and the basis for these fantasies was always the same. He Dreamt of trapping a young woman in an underground tunnel or pit. Unable to escape she would be forced to do as brutal pleased. Rudo says. Dark fantasies persisted throughout his developmental phase. Eventually he was able to resist his darker impulses and committed his first violent crime. In Nineteen fifty five at Age Sixteen. He had stolen the undergarments of an eighteen year. Old Neighbor girl the object of some of his first perverse fantasies. One day he approached her and claimed that he was working with police to catch a thief. Buddha's then invited her to discuss the details at his house making sure to choose a night when he knew the rest of his family would be out when the girl arrived. Brutus called from upstairs telling her to let herself in and join him on the second floor following the sound of his voice she proceeded to produce his bedroom inside a tall mast figure jumped out at her wielding a knife and demanded. Take off your clothes or I'll cut you. The girl wasn't fooled. She knew who the masked man was even as a teenager. Brutus was large cutting distinctive an identifiable silhouette trembling she did she was told and stripped wants. The girl was entirely naked. Brutus produced a camera commanding her to pose as he took pictures. When the role of film was spent the mast. Brutus left the scene. The girl quickly dressed and flew down the stairs there. She encountered brutus again this time however he was unmasked and bewildered acting as if he had only just entered. The House. Brutus claimed he'd been locked in the barn behind the house by a stranger at it only just managed to free himself. He asked the girl if she had seen anyone hanging around the property terrified. She's silently shook her head and fled. The girl eventually reported the incident to the police but not for several months until that time brutus believed that his first attempt at enacting his dark fantasies was a runaway success. It gave him the courage to try again and to escalate his violent acts coming up. Jerry Brutus develops his Mo and goes on the prowl. This episode is brought to you by the completely reimagined. Twenty twenty four to escape not too long ago. Driving seemed a lot simpler. Streets were less congested. And there were fewer distractions on the road. Nowadays a million different things are constantly fighting for attention. Ford believes it's not enough to make a vehicle with technology. Drivers need an SUV. That's ready for the challenges of today and can help anticipate the challenges of tomorrow an SUV. That's built street smart. That's why Ford has completely redesigned the twenty twenty four to escape there's Ford co-pilot three sixty a suite of advanced standard tack designed to help you feel confident and in-command on the road the completely reimagined twenty twenty four escape. It's not just smart. It's street-smart Hi Vanessa. I'm so excited for you to check out an incredible new podcast original. It's called dictators. And it lets you delve into the minds of some of the world's most feared leaders. You can hear new episodes every Tuesday here host Kate and Richard. To tell you more. Thank you so much. They are natural born leaders with a never ending thirst for power through force and deceit. They rise through the ranks towards radicalism. Eliminating anyone who stands in their way and the only thing more inevitable than their rise is there ruin. Discover the true stories of power greed deceit in the podcast original series dictators. Every Tuesday dictators examines the reign of a real life tyrant exploring the unique conditions that allowed them to seize control. Each dictator is analyzed in two part episodes with the first giving insight into the rise to power and the second chronicling. The impact of their downfall. Hear more about the men who claimed to love their country but were intricately responsible for killing millions of their own people. Men such as Prime Minister Benito Mussolini Supreme Leader Kim Jong Un and even Julius Caesar himself discover the governments that fell the lives that were destroyed and evil at its highest level followed dictators. Free on spotify over. Ever you get your podcast now. Back to the story by April of nineteen fifty six seventeen year old Jerry. Brutus had developed into a budding criminal a few months after attacking his neighbor. Bruce came across a teenage girl. Who needed a ride? He lured her into his car then began talking to her as if they knew each other and she had intended to meet him for a date. His behavior was unexpected. Bizarre and threatening the experience grew all the more frightening when Bhutto sped his car further and further away from town. As the girl began to panic he eventually pulled into the driveway of an farm. Then without saying a word he dragged the girl from the car and savagely beat her tearing at her clothes. Her screams caught the attention of a couple driving by out the car window. They spotted the hulking. Brutus bent over the girls. Crumpled form and swerved vehicle into the overgrown farmyard blocking brutus as exit as they stepped out of their vehicle to confront him. Brutus told the couple. The girl had fallen out of the car while he was driving. He explained away her screams as a hysterical reaction to the shock of the fall. The girl shook her head but was unable to speak through the pain. The couple was skeptical. Brutus changed tactics telling them he had come upon. The girl as another man was attacking her. She'd been fighting him off. When Brutus arrived at which point the man took off into the fields behind the farm. The couple suspected brutus was lying. He had changed his story so quickly and so drastically unconvinced. They escorted both brutus. And the girl back to their own nearby farmhouse where they called the Oregon State. Police once in custody. Brutus admitted that he had beaten the girl himself. He told officers he wanted to frighten her into removing her clothes and posing for pictures. He claimed to have been unexpectedly overcome by a combination of youthful veto and his own hot temper but when police searched Bruce's car they found camera equipment stowed away in the trunk. This was unmistakably premeditated act when they searched Bruce's bedroom police discovered his stash of photographs. Pictures of women's wear and shoes and nude photos of his neighbor. Bruce claimed he hadn't taken photos another boy had and force Bruno's to develop them let police however weren't convinced officers arrested him for assault and battery at seventeen brutal still qualified as a minor. Despite the violence of his crimes he was shortly referred to the Polk County Juvenile Department but a psychiatric examiner with the juvenile department determined. Bruce had problems that went far beyond those typical of teenage delinquency. He wasn't just a troublemaker. There was something deeply troubling about the young man. The examiner ordered Brutus committed to the Oregon State Hospital psychiatric ward so they could perhaps try to treat the mental malady that plagued the young man. The psychiatrists were initially puzzled by the stark contrast between Bruce's soft spoken personality and the vicious nature of his crimes according to author and rule who profiled Brutus in her book lust killer a state psychiatrists even commented on how normal brutal seemed to be they wrote. The boy does not appear to be grossly mentally ill. He comes into the interview situation and sits down in dejected fashion to talk with great embarrassment about his difficulty this difficulty. The psychiatrist mentioned was brutalises. Shoe Obsession. He was ultimately diagnosed with doctors termed adjustment reaction about lessons with sexual deviation and fetishism fetishistic disorder is defined as an intense sexual attraction to inanimate objects or body parts not traditionally known to serve sexual functions according to a nil agrawal a doctor of forensic medicine and an expert in paraphernalia or abnormal sexual desires. The disorder may arise from sexual imprinting the moment when humans learn to recognize sexually desirable traits when a child is imprinted with an incorrect concept of an object's purpose a subsequent fetishistic disorder can arise. It's not hard to see how Jerry Bruce's first frightening yet. Titillating experience with high heeled shoes could have birthed his own specific fetish. Despite this diagnosis doctors at the Oregon State Hospital determined that Brutus was not a lost cause after only a few short months of treatment he was released. He returned to high school. Bath fall this time. In the town of Corvallis Oregon just south of the state capital of Salem in Highschool Bruce Excelled in nontraditional electives such as stagecraft and electronics. Unfortunately his soft spoken personality made him an outcast with no regular friends. He occasionally tried to strike up conversation with female classmates but they found his awkward demeanor off pudding if not pitiable in the spring of Nineteen fifty seven at the age of eighteen. Brutus graduated from high school at the bottom of his class. He then enrolled at Oregon State University for a time before switching to the local vocational school in Salem in Nineteen fifty nine at twenty years old. Bruce enlisted in the US army where he was sent to Fort Ord California and Fort. Gordon Georgia for Basic Training. Because he was skilled in electronics and communications brutus was eventually signed to the. Us Army Signal Corps yet. Throughout all these moments of life Bruce's dark sexual compulsions still lingered. Brutus confided some of his twisted fantasies to an army psychiatrist. Captain Theodore J Berry Shocked and disgusted by what he heard Berry Determined Brew Tos unfit to serve. He was discharged and forced to return to Oregon to live with his mother. In nineteen sixty. Eileen Brutus was entirely displeased to see her dull son returned home rather than allow him to sleep under her roof. She reportedly forced him to sleep in the shed behind the main house. This emotional torment likely had a substantial impact on Bruce's mental state. And before long he was back to his Old Habits. He began stealing women's underwear and heels. He also returned to assaulting women one evening. Shortly after moving back home brutus went into Salem on an errand there he saw a pretty young woman walking to her workplace excited by her bright red outfit. Brutal followed her is movement was fast but quiet and in the blink of an eye. He grasped her neck and began to squeeze he held fast until she fell to the ground. Half CONSCIOUS ONCE. She lay helplessly on the ground. Brutal stole her shoes and ran away upon his escape. Brutus revelled in how easily he overpowered the young woman the fragility ever neck in his powerful grip. Shortly afterwards he tried to recreate the thrill and attacked another woman in Portland. This woman fought back viciously but brutal still manage to escape the encounter with one of her shoes back in his dark little shed brutal slept with the stolen shoes. He ruminated on power. Heat held over their former owners. This made him feel strong even under the hawkish gaze of his antagonistic mother when not hunting victims twenty one year old brutus kept up appearances. He passed the FCC's Commercial Radio Operator test with a license in hand. He found work as an operating engineer. With one of Corbala says Radio Stations Brutus liked his job. He was good at it. He fit in with the other station staff something previously unfamiliar to him but Buddha's longed for female companionship albeit a specific kind. He yearned for someone he could control indefinitely a kept woman. A friend at the radio station sat brutus up on a date. She was young and pretty and went by Darcy. Dorsey was seventeen. When she met twenty-three-year-old Bruce she had big eyes and dark hair. She was attractive and dated frequently. But what was most important to? Bruce was that she was a good girl quiet and soft spoken and obedient to her parents. Darcy was rarely one to question authority. She was exactly with Brutus was looking for when they first met. Darcy was not impressed with him though. Tall and broad brutus was average looking and already had thinning hair in his early twenties but Darcy was nothing if not compliant. An older man had asked her out so she felt obligated to accept Luckily Rudo so. He chose a swimming hole for their first date. Darcey love to swim. She was also surprised at Budo says sense of humor. He joked and made her laugh and soon enough. The seventeen year old girl reconsidered her preconceived notions about her big awkward date. Unlike his perception of other women BRUTUS FOUND DARCY ENTIRELY UNTHREATENING. She listened to him laughed at his jokes and made him feel important whereas women his own age hadn't found. Brutus appealing Darcy. Being six years junior was more easily impressed. After all brutus was a working man out of school he may have seemed like an attractive alternative to her sheltered life. Under your parents roof Darcy's parents however weren't fond of the strange young men. Their daughter was dating. But this only added to Bruce's appeal. The shy and obedient teen was now itching to rebel and Brutus was all too happy to help. He made it easy. Brutus put Darcy on a pedestal. He was tender and chivalrous holding doors open and lavishing her with compliments and flowers. The young lovers spent all their time together. Despite protests from Darcy's parents determined to cement their relationship they hatched a plan if Darcy were to become pregnant they theorized the to be allowed to marry it worked in one thousand. Nine hundred. Sixty to darcy became pregnant. The couple was within six weeks of the announcement. Brutus was twenty. Four Darcy wasn't quite yet eighteen. Brutus felt he had secured Darcy's lifelong commitment for better or worse coming up Jerry. Brutal spirals deeper into his twisted obsessions. While Darcy turns a blind eye now back to the story in the early sixties. Twenty four year old Jerry. Bruce fell in love with then seventeen year old darcy to quiet her parents rejections to the relationship. The young lovers conspired to have a child forcing a shotgun wedding sexually the couple's relationship largely catered to Bruce's tastes because Darcy was sexually inexperienced before meeting her husband. She thought there was little wrong with his insistence on taking nude pictures of her brutus was relentless expanding roll after roll of film building a Veritable Library of his wife's naked body. The photos were one thing. But some of Brutus is other sexual proclivities caused. Darcy more concern. He would occasionally director to ride their daughter's tricycle in the nude while he took photos sometimes even pulled a nylon stocking over her face during intercourse and through it. All Brutus insisted Darcy where patent leather heels during sex though she was compliant. None of these requests may darcy particularly happy yet. Brewed assured her this was simply what husbands and wives did for each other. She knew no better for Darcy. Outside of the bedroom the first few years of their marriage were domestic bliss. She had taken care of despite brutus inability to hold down a job when one fell through. He always seemed to find another radio station to take him on. Despite having an obedient kept woman at home Bruce went back to prowling the streets opportunistically stealing ladies undergarments from clotheslines. With Darcy. Busy caring for Baby Meghan. She didn't notice that her husband was spending more and more time out of the house at night as brutalises secret life grew more intense same urgency seep deeper into his marriage. Brutus demanded that Darcy wear high heels all the time even when doing household chores she went along with his wishes even though the shoes made her feet knees and back hurt but her patience was wearing thin. According to the National Domestic Violence Hotline Darcy may have tolerated this home environment for a number of reasons. Many victims of spousal abuse believed that the toxic dynamic. They experience every day is normal and as we previously established brutus was able to easily convince Darcy that his sexual demands were typical to most marriages and the heavy expectations placed on wives. At the time would have kept. Darcy from considering any alternative according to family lawyer Wendy L. Patrick social pressures highly discouraged divorce in the nineteen sixties. These pressures meant women endured more stringent expectations to maintain traditional family structures and so- Darcy put up with Bruce's sexual demands as well as the families. I tint lifestyle because Brutus was chronically incapable of holding down a job he had moved darcy and Meghan repeatedly from town to town in search of work by the time his second child. A boy was born in nineteen sixty seven. The family had relocated more than twenty times around the Willamette Valley. Brutus was only twenty eight in many ways. This was reflective of Bruce's own unstable upbringing. But this wasn't the only pattern from his childhood that he repeated though he was not outwardly cruel or derisive of his eldest. Meghan like his mother had been to him. British was distant with his children. Perhaps mimicking the attitude of his own absent father and while brutus drifted from his children Darcy now in her early twenties began to distance herself from Bhutto's emotionally and sexually as a more fully realized adult woman. Darcy had grown quietly suspicious of her husband's sexual appetites this tormented Bhutto's he even claimed suffer from migraines and self described blackouts whenever he sends. Darcy'S AFFECTIONS WANING. This insecurity triggered more nighttime prowls and more threats of women's underwear and shoes. Each transgression was a band-aid soothing. Bruce's anxieties pent up rage and purported migraines but only temporarily in a bid to recapture Darcy's attention. Brutus left photos of himself wearing stolen women's closed throughout the house but when Darcy found the pictures she threw them away and never asked her husband to explain. Darcy wanted no part of her husband's after dark activities but couldn't bring herself to face her increasingly troubling reality instead. She retreated into her motherly duties with absolute tunnel vision according to psychotherapist and relationship expert. Dr Karl lasco emotionally driven desires can sometimes override our perception of reality. Wanting to believe something is true or not true can supplant more rational considerations. Here Darcy may have been so overcome by her desire for a normal family life that she would not let herself confront her husband's obsessions if she refused to deal with. Bruce'S FETISHES IN HER MIND. They weren't real but Darcy's denial couldn't change. The reality of her husband's impulses and Brutus was chasing his fantasies with greater and greater ferocity in nineteen sixty seven. Bruce found himself alone in downtown Portland. There he spotted a young woman wearing a particularly alluring pair of heels. Initially Brutus wanted to knock her down then in there in broad daylight and flee with the shoes but he restrained himself instead he followed the woman for hours just out of sight when she returned to her apartment building. Brutus noted which window was hers? He waited until he could be sure. The woman was asleep then broke into her apartment to rifle through her closet hunting for the pair of shoes he had spotted earlier but the woman woke up. She saw hulking dark figure kneeling on her bedroom floor before she could scream. Brutus had already in leapt across the room to her bedside afraid she might register his face and be able to identify him to police. He wrapped his hands around her neck and choked her. The woman's body went limp excited once again by the feeling of absolute power wielded over. The woman's unconscious form brutally sexually assaulted her when he finished. He took the shoes he had come for. And left it signalled? A new phase of brutalises sexual sadism. He wanted to take something more than just physical possessions from his prey. His awful crimes would only escalate further after an accident at work. Further damaged his impulse control while working as an electrician at a radio station in Corvallis twenty-eight-year-old Bruce accidentally connected alive wire to a terminal sending four hundred eighty volts of electricity off his arm and threw his chest. The force of the jolt was so strong that it reportedly picked brutus up and threw him across the room. A smaller man may have been killed but brutus miraculously survived. Though the accident was life threatening he was never seen by Dr Despite Darcy's insistence. He refused to be examined. Perhaps recalling his negative experience being examined by Captain Berry and the army exposure to significant amounts of electrical energy can cause brain injury in fact studies have linked this form of trauma to a kind of acquired sociopathic or psychopathy. Dr Ryan Darby and Assistant Professor of neurology at Vanderbilt University. Medical Center in Tennessee has found a link between lesions and other long-term injuries to the brain and an increased risk of criminal behavior. This is particularly likely when an injury occurs along the brain's moral decision making network which includes the prefrontal cortex the posterior cingulate and angular gyrus. Together these regions governed impulse control and value based decision making injuries. Along this pathway can also inhibit empathy thus decreasing. A brain injured persons capacity for remorse. Bring US already lacked sufficient empathy to stop himself from assaulting and raping women. The electroshock likely made it worse after the accident. Bro Circled ever closer to the theme at the core of all his dark. Sexual fantasies a subterranean lair in which he could keep young women captive entirely subject to his will though brutal sometimes imagined his wife as one of his captive women he never hurt Darcy. She was spared. The fate that befell Bruises First Victim Twenty eight-year-old Brew Tos met Nineteen Year Old Encyclopaedia Saleswoman Linda S- Lawson on the street outside his house. He asked her inside and led her to the basement. The one area of the House. He forbade his family from entering. According to author and rule. Bruce told Linda. I'm really interested in buying some encyclopedias. The basement was dark and Linda was apprehensive but as soon as she heard those words Linda perked up. She felt more at ease with the prospect of a sale on the table recalling. Bruce's mention of a daughter. She attended to up sell him. A set of children's books also produced by her publisher as she bent to retrieve a set of promotional pamphlets from carrying case brutal offered to turn the basement light on. He quickly shifted behind her. The next thing Linda felt was an immense blow against the side of her head. She fell to the floor unconscious. Brutus had struck Linda with a wooden two by four with quiet haste. He dropped the plank and bent down to check her vitals. Detecting slight stirrings of life brutus began to squeeze her neck. He felt her bones crack beneath his brute force. He only let go when he was sure she was dead. He heard footsteps overhead in the excitement of his first kill. Brutus had forgotten that his mother was upstairs babysitting the kids while Darcy was out. He had to get rid of them fast. He dashed upstairs shoving a five dollar bill in his mother's hand. He instructed her to take the children to dinner. According to Anne rule he then demanded she knocked on the floor when she returned. He did not want to be interrupted once alone. Brutus returned to his basement shop of horrors. He immediately stripped Linda's corpse and was delighted to find. She was wearing a pair of bright red underwear. He then used slogans body like a doll posing her addressing her up in his collection of purloined. Women's clothes undergarments at shoes. But he knew he couldn't keep the body indefinitely. The basement freezer was too small to store. A full corpse. Brutus proceeded to cut off Linda's Lawson's left foot a more manageable sized trophy and a model for his precious collection of high heels. He could enjoy for days and weeks to come once. His family was asleep. Brutus slipped out of the House with slogans footloose corpse and trope north by two. Am Heat arrived at Saint John Bridge crossing the Willamette river into Portland pretending to have a flat tire? Brutus set up a Jack under the rear bumper. Cars passed but no one thought twice of the man rummaging in the trunk of a stalled vehicle by the side of the bridge when the coast was clear he tied. Linda's body to a heavy engine. Part carried her to the bridge rail and dropped her into the rushing water below utterly remorseless brutus packed up the Jack got back in the car and returned home to his sleeping family. Darcy was none the wiser that her husband had just committed his first murder days. Later at the encyclopedia publisher where Linda worked her colleagues. Assume she quit after all. Selling Encyclopedias wasn't a lucrative enterprise and sales people had a tendency to come and go. It wasn't until her own family raised the alarm about the Portland. Police began investigating went as disappearance as Linda's body at the bottom of the Willamette river. Her foot sat frostbitten in Jerry. Brutalises basement freezer but when he grew tired of using it to model shoes it followed the rest of her body into the water. Though he had tired of Linda's body the thrill of killing her lingered. Jerry Brutus had successfully carried out his first kill and he had no intention of stopping at one. Thanks AGAIN FOR TUNING INTO SERIAL KILLERS FOR MORE INFORMATION ON JERRY. Bhutto's amongst the many sources we used we found the book lust killer by an rule extremely helpful to our research you can find episodes of serial killers and all other podcast originals for free on spotify. Not only does spotify already. Have all of your favorite music but now spotify is making it easy for you to enjoy. All of your favorite podcast originals. Like serial killers for free from your phone desktop or smart speaker to stream serial killers on spotify. Just open the APP and type serial killers in the search bar several via vast how to help the show. And if you enjoy the show the best way to help is to leave a five star review and over get to follow us on facebook and Instagram. At podcast and twitter at podcast network. We'll see you next time. Have a killer week. Serial killers was created by Max Cutler. And his apar- cast studios original executive producers include Max and Ron Cutler sound design by one Boorda with Production Assistance Bhai Ron Shapiro Carly Madden and Freddie Beckley. This episode of serial killers was written by Jake Flanagan with writing assistance by Abigail Cannon and stars Greg Poulsen and Vanessa. Richardson don't forget to check out. Par casts fantastic new original series dictators. Every Tuesday dictators examines the rain. A real life tyrant exploring the unique conditions that allowed them to seize control. Discover the governments that fell the lives that were destroyed and evil at its highest level search for dictators in the spotify APP. And listen free today.
DNB: Preemptively Discrediting The Election, TikTok TikTok TikTok, & A Karen On Every Street Corner (8.7.20)
"Welcome to the Dr. Thirty minutes forty five patrons jam-packed. Prescription Truth Liberty and justice. This is. Brad. Ted. His top story. Reason magazine points out that Donald Trump. is completely against male voting. The headline is America's going to vote by mail we are not. Ready. And it it it cites tweet wasn't it was from few days ago of Donald Trump saying with universal mail in voting not absentee voting, which is good. Twenty twenty will be the most inaccurate and fraudulent election in history it will be a great embarrassment to the US. So this was maybe a week ago where he says delay the vote until people can vote securely. He said the same thing stuff like that about if Hillary wins, we have to look into how they're illegal immigrants and I'm not sure we'll accept. The outcome of the election and all that. and. It occurred to me when I was reading this quote or tweet or whatever it was that. That he probably will win. Against the polling. And he and his words will be used against him because no one will accept the results of the vote and they'll say, well, you were right mail in voting can be screwed with and you do control the post office and then later in this exact article after dirty written at like, wow, that's I can see this coming. Of course because they were probably taking me up to it reason said this could come back to haunt Republicans who win in November. So they're setting up for this dispute and I think that this is the mail in voting is going to suppose with more wrong polling. and. That, we're we're probably it's going to be everyone. Says it. Maybe they're just teaching us up for nothingburger but everybody says, this is GonNa be the hairiest voting ever. Yeah I think it will I think? The same goes the other way in that the Democrats are not using the same language is trump, but they're implying that they're not going to accept the outcome of the election either and we have Stacey Abrams leading up that charge speaking of the vote, the mail and. I think that they are not going to accept it and they're going to use his words against him. I. This makes me think he's going to win. Yeah I think he's GonNa win too. That will say see aprons or whoever gets to use his own quotes against him in addition to all that other stuff. So yeah, I think all signs are pointing to that seems like it would be a backup plan in another situation. Let's go ahead and de legitimize the election. In case we don't win, but this seems to. Be Their primary method is just let's just destroy the election before it happened. So we can go ahead and lay the groundwork for discrediting it. Well, it's been my theory since with the theory I've had this theory for awhile and I've observed evidence for it for now twenty years that every single presidential election in that amount of time has been cursed with rumors of illegitimacy. I've said this many times so for me. The elections, the two party system is now solely for the conflict. It's solely for the conflict. So elections are they're not make us agree on the executive is put to make us disagree. Yeah it's the tribal battle. It's the warfare and the tribe it's so ridiculous. Congress's teeing up is is serving up fortunately dollar deficits and trump is signing them. There's no no genuine conflict here none. That's why this thing is all a distraction to make you think they put all the conflict at the surface. So that, you don't really focus on the fundamental, which is we don't buy many of us do not buy the stuff. I representatives would not have our consent to vote on this stuff outside around the legal. I. Just I'm frustrated beyond words at this point well, they do try to frustrate us that is what they are trying to drive us mad I think Nevada. Mail in voting. Lol Previews looming twenty twenty legal battles over the ballot Nevada Governor Steve Cecil lack signed a bill into law on Monday that dramatically expands mail in voting in the state including sending every registered voter a mail in ballot rather than requiring voters to request one, the trump campaign filed a lawsuit A. Wednesday trying to stop this legislation arguing that is unconstitutional and. What Nevada did they did not only automatically send ballots to everybody's registered, but they're also legalizing vote harvesting vote harvesting as a practice that allows individuals other than voter to fill out and return his or her ballot. That's the problem that is the problem right there I actually don't mind the idea especially. Just. In theory I mean it's always about the details and the execution. But if you took every registered voter. With an made sure I, don't know how you do this. Maybe stand the head of time a postcard that says if this is your address this postcard back and we'll send you a mail in ballot. You don't have to ask for it or anything just send it back. Then we know that you're there and put the Bar Code on it that attached to that voter, and then you can take that ballot with you on election day or you can deliver it to someplace in advance or you could put it in the mail whereas it can postmark by X.. Day. I think and then you have a paper trail, which is how you can do a good audit but the harvesting means that you will it's like it breaks the evidentiary chain. You know you can't. You don't have it anymore. So you really don't know there was a scandal in the North Carolina election. I believe in two thousand, eighteen where voter harvesting caused the election to get thrown out because the Republicans were they were cheating essentially I heard. Yes. I've heard repeatedly repeatedly from insiders. That it's the I I I know I've seen the Democrat evidence of Democrats cheating but I've read many times and seen some evidence of the fact that the Republicans cheat. They cheat it's just funny. It's funny I mean at some level I'm sure the stuff is coordinated and he don't even get on the ballot if you're not approved by the Brash Alon, but the actual voting that both sides are cheating that just I don't know why they're going to try and cheat always they will always try and cheat and try to get away because both sides the rank and file on both sides gets mad when kids I ate at the other side for their cheadle, they cheat only half of America wrong and we're all. Their Democrats cheaters, third cheaters. How can you not know that they cheat and we don't they're bad and we're not just funny therein lies true. The true skill of propaganda right there is to create that environment the two, the two parties cy apter, a, Scwhab. There's a couple more things on this. The laws have varying levels of flexibility in different states, but the Nevada laws allows voters to designate any person to return the ballot. So you can go to the door, you can convince them. Trying to be the executor of somebody's will. Yeah see I think that's where you should need to get actual really permission in person like even if like absentee valid thing even if. You should there should be a process if they can send people to your house to collect for the census, they should be able to bring to you and say, okay, you cannot make it out. I'm going to bring this to you. Personally you've gotta sign this form tell me who you are designated. Vote Person Is. But needs time, which is why this is going to be a massive cluster. Especially when the post offices pulling back on overtime I mean come on. Now this article goes on to give a hilarious example of voter problems. The director of honest elections Jason Sneed said in the article I don't WanNa be melodramatic. One of the things that folks don't know about the titanic is that they were sailing into an area of the ocean with icebergs they knew that and they did it anyway and they sailed at full speed and they were absolutely confident that they could manage the crisis. If anything happens, and we all know that they hit an iceberg and sank primary elections have already exposed the challenges of rapid vote by mail implementation former Democratic state representative. Stacey Abrams said that her primary ballot arrived with the return envelopes sealed and Democrat Georgia's Senate candidate. Jon Ossoff didn't receive his primary ballot in time to vote for himself by mail. So Stacey Abramson Jon Ossoff have already had their votes breast and the state of Georgia. Therefore, we must implement vote by mail across the country. What is this joke for not outing Brian Cannabis, the most incompetent election official ever, but I want to say something about the titanic, which may be relevant I believe the titanic may have been a hey stacking. Of John. Astor. I've heard that theory. Yeah. I think that because. Too. Many things went wrong and really an and the Lusitania was in that point. So at that around that time, our fearless leaders had no problem killing innocent civilians on the open seas for political purposes. What's up guys I talked about neighbors feeding seat a lot of not just because they offer everything you need to live more sustainable lifestyle. But also because of the way that they conduct business, they give you the kind of personalized attention you don't get anywhere else in. Fact Bill from neighbors is making propaganda report listeners a priority. He's given his private number to anyone who calls or emails a store so that he can personally make sure you get what you need. You'RE GONNA, WANNA, take him up on that offer. So Go to neighbors fence dot com you can find their info on the contact page, and if you're in the SMYRNA area, be sure and check out neighbors all new farmer's market on Saturdays from nine am to four Paean. And a lot of things can get buried at sea never get discovered so. That is true I. I can tell you something close to see the truth of which will be buried forever and never be known the Bay route explosion which occurred In that in the port of Beirut, which is big. is their biggest port. So if they can't use the ports for their rebuilding they they're overland routes are Syria and Israel which. That area seems to be heating up. That's for sure but I told you I thought my theory was that this was a way for them to you know it's like an arson of of a business that's going under. Macro the president of France said yesterday. This explosion is the beginning of a new era. Lebanon is in need of change in a new political contracts. So right away he says what I thought would be the only possible reason to blow that thing up anyway, and of course, the government is blaming it on Hezbollah because they have like pocket terrorists so they can just you know blame them for whatever. But Anyway. So I'm just saying I believe that what happened I personally believe that's on you believe that would happen in Beirut was the equivalent of burning your your failing business now. Yeah in these vultures jump on these either natural crisis or created crisis on take advantage of them and I think that stuff was stored there. I have no reason not to think that. But when someone was thinking what what Twin Towers event can we have here? We've been holding up that. Modem nitrate for a while. Let's just let's blow. Yeah. Blowing up. Here. The story about the professor who made a fake account. There was a cova death hoax embroils Arizona State University as a professor was busted posing online as bisexual. American. Indian who died of Corona virus here's what happens is a former assistant professor of neurology at the university is Beth Anne McLaughlin. She created a fake twitter account four years ago as I said, poses a queer indigenous Arizona State University professor and she tweeted out social justice messages. Hashtag. Me To messages online to which she was very much an activist, this other account, and she would interact with herself from her real account and interact with fake account talking to herself and says, she can say stuff like you're so office and she did. She defended herself. With fake account was her own White, knight? Yes. Because she got something happened with one of her job. So she was defending yourself through her fake account but last Friday. She announced from her real account that the fake professor that she created had died of the corona. Virus. And she went so far as to create an online zoom memorial that many people attended. Because she had been communicating with other people through this other account. So they believed her to be a real Arizona state professor and it couldn't be verified or because the shutdown over the past couple of months when she's been doing a lot of this activity. Nobody's at school so she can get away with it because it's digital, it's virtual and she came out she admitted it and she apologized for to the new. York Times. This is what happens when you're not allowed to question people who play this identity politics victim card every time they respond to something when you're not allowed to question people like this can get away with anything. There's been plenty of other schemes like this where people have used gofundme to raise a bunch of money. This is why we have to be allowed to question I wonder if she was. Had Thought of maybe assuming that other persona at some point the way that that end double A. C. P. Chick identified as black even though she wasn't ritual or something. That may be a convenient way to go or Elizabeth Warren for that matter I'm sure she got lost character if she was doing that for a long enough time, I wonder why she killed it. But yeah, I do wonder here there is that I just saw across the Daily Mail people laugh at me for getting notifications from the Daily Mail for some reason even though it's supposedly in England maybe their US arm is here. They always give me the headlines I, and they're not wrong. They had a lot of Epstein stuff along the way anyway. So I just saw a headline that that Cova debt surged two thousand and one day and. She says, this does not bode well, you know it's like a real. This is a sign of bad things to come. He didn't actually say bode well or anything that people would not necessarily know what it is like this is bad. You know something like that. And HE I was beginning to think a couple of things on this one is that the masks that the hyper vigilance about the masks which is now spreading elsewhere? It was always in California but like now it's everywhere just as it's the summer and the kids are whatever the it just seems to be. A time when it's bathing and no longer surging and I really think at this point I really believe this now for the first time that the masks are meant to prolong the crisis because all the things that or many of the things that are considered earmarks of died from lung problem hypoglycemia Tacky, Cardia kidney problems all of those things have been associated with mask-wearing. So I feel like this is what's happening in the humanization of people the with digital, the digital world making people lose their humanity, the mask even further that. Absolutely have something to say about that. But yes, that is true. So there. So a lot what dovetails with chief thing is all these rules that surround going back to school and testing, and we talked about like group testing recently. I think all the and then with the rules of going back to school, they have all these quarantine triggers like they're breaking the classes into different like ten kids and every other day kind of thing instead of twenty kids on same day and that anybody sick everybody gets quarantined and then that can really have a kind of. A web of fact of just you could just quarantine so many people once that happens but you need that group circumstance you need that testing and you need the quarantine rules. So something came out of Georgia which you talked about yesterday. Ninety teachers something like that, ninety workers in the school district forced to quarantine, and I'm like they're they're forced to quarantine because there are laws forcing them to quarantine second grade, class. Yeah and that's how that's how the I think. That's how the backs of school rules are being written. I've certainly heard a couple of examples of that but then. Just. About the mask thing. Did you hear about the Colorado Karen's? I saw the headline, but tell me the details. So they are volunteers and it was so weird because in the article that said, now, these guys just sitting in their cars counting mass Sunday thought guys you're not allowed to say anymore any kind of complete socialist. Injury Bro Yeah. So they are all freaking girls. They're all Karen's. It's a chick thing for sure. I mean that's out. My stereotype is playing this and they're they're not like throwing coffee and people's faces like the chicken. Manhattan beach. Did you see that video from yesterday guys walking down with no mask and Manhattan beach like all U V it's probably it's hot summer. It's California stricken coffee on the be did anyone she throws the deafness face and and I think ripped his shirt attacked him this little check this big dude. I'm surprised you didn't just swatter away but anyway, I saw these aren't getting hostile yet but they're looking for is They're counting mass compliance and they're going to try to associate it with more or fewer positive tests. Now, that could be less scientific and more easy to manipulate and I just feel like this is where we're going and I can't say that again, they're gonNA associate they're gonNa try to see as as Karen's count masks. If in that locality, the positive rates of testing go up or down with mask. Law Compliant Oh. So they were counting the number of people wearing masks coming by. Probably how many people altogether there were how many were really probably easier to count how many people weren't wearing masks because I actually did go down to Santa Monica a couple of weeks ago. And I just kept forgetting and I walked down the street and I didn't have a mask on but I was the only one and I really thought some care was going to throw coffee. And I put it on my phases like Africa keep going to the store for getting that every store around here has now made mask mandatory and a walk in and I'll look up and I'll go. And get a turn back around and I got a good drive home and so I thought about taking my shirt off and covering my face. that. The first name down when I was in Riverside County, it came down and I was going to the store and I got my son I made my son take his shirt off. So I could wear it and run into buying. Ask I wonder if they would look down on me for doing that for for being shirtless and going in as long as I had my face covered at least this guy covered faith I thought about that Hey, look my shirt has a mouth on it. It's. Picture of that maybe I'll do it in the DP tonight. What does that shared on? That's a rolling stones, the stones it's a big giant giant. But it's funny if I were out on my face, I should do that I should totally the remaining mask. It'd be a great mask. There is a chick on an airplane who had supposedly she had a black lives matter shirt on, but she had f this but spelled out if Something didn't say what probably said this mask or something probably had nothing to do with black lives matters probably had a lot to do with the fucking mask. Kindle through I. Think she got kicked off for having profanity on the plane a big welcome to our latest sponsor, an avid member of the propaganda report community true and science experts and see with a huge variety of premium cbd from different farms and with different cannabinoid profiles all in one place go to true ham science dot com slash proper port for your special offer. So I want this a shout out. For Patron. Saints Patriots say it. You WanNa shout out just message me let me know who you want to say hi to. Also we are running a promotion for patron saints are I ever? Swag. So if you are patron saints or you upgrades a patron saint, I should have enough supplies lasts us through August. You'll get my awesome fifteen percents, propaganda report Coffee Mug, which I love has a nice spin rim seiken. Just I'm picky about. How I drink my coffee anyway. So go to Patriotdepot DOT COM slash propaganda report for that, and of course, that will entitle you to all disappearing patron parties in there is one today. So if you're just hearing this as soon as it's hot off the presses, it's not too late. It's actually first Friday free for all for everybody WHO's in a party level tier, which is Patriots of the Truth and higher. But Joe is a patron saint. He wants a big shout out to his wife Jen he says I love you and you have a great but oh High praise indeed. Way To. Go Jen. Joe You're a lucky. Gospel So, yes. So what was your what I interrupted you? Ohio governor test negative after positive result at trump visit earlier in the day. So the Ohio, governor goes to the White House he's a Republican he gets tested at the White House 'cause everybody gets tested at the White House He tests positive. So could he not go in then? Did mention that because if you tested positive, don't get turned away he must. He was going to quarantine for two weeks. He was speaking from his porch initially before he had the other test done. So he was invited to the White House out I mean if they're going to test you obviously that's so you know they're not GonNa let you get near the president if you test positive I would. Assume. Even though they know damn well. Well he's later negative after that. which I think whenever I hear the semi test positive. Always say. Go get another test to see what happens. Because you just don't know what it's going to come back with what does that mean? You still quarantine if you get a positive or negative probably still have to probably. Or is it like? Yes, like the sat where they just take your highest. Yeah. Score who take your positive tests tell you I have been asked probably a dozen times already to fill out a form of whether or not I have been tested positive or live with someone who has and I told my husband took a damn test at one point just 'cause he wanted to know for sure it was negative. Thank goodness. But I was like don't take test the think can. Write the only people. Who tested positive for people who did not have symptoms? The people I know who tested negative like weren't feeling well, yeah. He didn't have symptoms. And he's tested positive. Yeah. and. What about the couple? who had no symptoms went to get a test did not get the test. was found positive when they said. Fix this they were offered eight hundred dollars from the hospital to not fixity dollars from. Eight to make a lot of money. There were millions of tests out there. Really I mean that's millions eight, hundred, billion dollars just off the top my ad. There's been people who have been getting letters in the mail. that. These are people who did take the test as opposed to once he didn't. But the letter says they get two letters. One says her positive than another one comes and says, they're negative it's the same. It's just mass confusion is driving people. It gives you know intense. Yeah. It's incentives. So I wanted to mention this tiktok thing this whole cascading. Thing of thoughts to you. Have a lot more. Items. Because I can. Let's do this. Now do my Brent. Scowcroft. Thing in the Patriot fifteen people like that. It's very deep dive into the deep state. Okay He. So let me say. So tiktok trump came out with this executive order that take talk and we chat or just going to be banned basically and forty five days something like that and. Microsoft or. Somebody else may be apple. Had I forget who's in the running better by then all bets are off you know, of course tanks the price At. The same time facebook has on folded reels, which is their second attempt to compete with tectonic. I just saw an ad that the an article that said, the top TIKTOK earner last year made five million dollars herself personally. So the TIKTOK stuff is big money she's making that imagine what bite dances making. So you gots by dance owns Tik Tok. Ten cent owns we chat, and that's also on the block there. So let me just this cascading down. To mind you ahead. So. This is saying there's going to be a cyber war with China and. I think if you start looking at it that way you've guy. A. Were first of all facebook, Microsoft and apple and stuff would be in control of everything right and China. Doesn't and those are are essentially sisters of the defense industry like big tech. off-shoot that's why it's in California. And They will use that stuff for surveillance. We keep hearing about how cyber is the new battleground, the new national security, the new borders that need to be secured, and if this is starting that kind of a war, maybe that's your hot water. It's not a Cold War it's a hot war, but like in south, Korea they're doing their normal like the exercises with the US against North. Korea. But it's digital is not even. Real. So I I think there's something to that. But what what it could do just the way that an embargo in the ocean CA- do is it could actually or at least be used as an excuse speak cyberattack. Cloud Shrub of World Economic Forum is warning us about it could really interrupt the supply chain and the articles I've seen about supply chain interruption so far has been food shortages, medicine shortages, and then cars. I told the car thing and something else that I've been thinking. So Uber kind of tanks a little bit today because the dry the rides are down but uber are up and I thought if they've got traffic down and it's hard to get cars if they're going to suppress all that maybe this is the time for the infrastructure to be put in place for the driverless vehicles. And that? If. That's what's happening. If they're really resetting everything from every direction like that from a now that money's flowing like magic to it infrastructure who's even going to notice. that. that. This is really A huge reset, the world. Economic. Forum called it the reset. And that it's like run by the technocrats, cloud shrub tells us there's a cyber attack coming. So I just looked and Dabo's in January I talked about it because it was their fiftieth anniversary. And they met their one hundred nineteen billionaires there in January and Zuckerberg to the Senate billionaire. So he's one hundred billion dollars room I. Know I was worried about him. We always worry about face. So So just thinking you're there January they I was recently, we talked about a story where the billionaires network is up like twenty percent while everybody else is just frigging. tanked. So. They're all at this meeting with cloud. Schwab, and the other and lots of world leaders there. I mean that if you look at the World Economic Forum's event to a one. They said like you have to get everybody on the same page and you can do that by getting the billionaires to call the presidents of the different countries and used soft power to get them on the same page I just feel like an as a Dick Morris famously. told us on the Sean Hannity show a long time ago. The agenda is not the agenda. So the agenda looked like it was gonna be climate change but the real agenda maybe something else and not on the website that like this is what we're planning you know. So I just feel like they're they're the hidden hand isn't the free market it's this. Cabal of billionaires and I don't know who the Hell Klaus Schwab is or who who's got their hand up his back. But that's I think where we're the, we're the brain lives Dabo's I've always kind fun in Switzerland. Yeah there's definitely a lot of. Soft power at Davos a lot of soft power that have names we've probably never heard of, in fact, in fact, right? oftentimes when we start to hear about the people too much then they might not be as soft power anymore although some of these propagandist the they do put their face forward a little bit. But what you're saying about infrastructure infrastructure is interesting because there's been a lot of talk about what the Post, covert world is going to be what office spaces what living is going to be like and I think this fits right into redoing infrastructure because I think they're going to model it after the NBA bubble I. Think they're GONNA have this smart technology to track and trace people to spray mist on people to take people's temperature. When they walk through stuff I, think that this is a reason to put in all the smart technology where you don't have to touch anything that can gather data that can track us. I can tell us who we been interacting with and they're already put some stuff in. Yeah and as I think about that, what's the biggest problem these wars that are thrust upon since the beginning of this country the biggest problem has always been the journalists who object to the war and trying to get around the First Amendment for that, and this this cyber corral has really has really. Put a stranglehold on on anybody who wants to play the typical role of the good journalist. Who says this is bullshit it's not worth it. What they say is this war I understand what you're saying is the reason for the war, but it's not worth it. It's not just that is what's happening here with these policies and stuff, but it's outrageous to object what plus the enemy is within. So it's not even we can. It's just. People there carries on every street corner. Errands on every street corner that's a great line literally in Colorado. I must tell you that Brent Scowcroft. In the patron fifteen. And I want to tell you about the art of provocation just a quick line about it that really expresses with the art of provocation is very, very well in patient fifteen. You guys can find your drive time these last week afternoon new the proper dot com, your favorite podcasting platform with propagator report podcast feed. If you want access to that extra content that we post every time, we post the DNB go to Patriot dot com slash propaganda report CO PATRON We will see you guys tonight if the patient party or we'll talk to you next week. Have a great weekend.
Podcast: The Pandemic and Parkinsons: COVID-19 Impact on Disease, Care and Community (Webinar)
"This is Michael J. Fox thanks for listening to this podcast. Learn more about the Michael, J.? Fox. Foundation's work and how you can help speed a cure and Michael J. Fox dot org. Welcome to a recap of our latest third Thursday webinar hear directly from expert panelists as they discuss Parkinson's research and answering your questions about living with the disease. Join US live next time by registering for an upcoming Webinar at. Michael J. Fox Dot Org. I everyone and thank you for joining us. I'm Dr Rachel and Movement Disorder Specialists Vice President of medical communications that the Michael J., Fox Sunday Shen and your moderator for today's Webinar. Today we'll be discussing results from our Fox insight survey on the corona virus in Parkinson's disease, as well as how restrictions and distancing have impacted care and community. Boxing site is our online study capturing disease history experience and perspectives from people with and without Parkinson's to these. Nearly fifty thousand people have enrolled, and we're very excited to share with you today the results of the covert nineteen survey, which is the largest of its kind gathering this data from the Parkinson's community. We've got a lot to discuss the. Let's get started. Let me introduce our panelists. Dr Carly Tanner the professor of neurology at the University of California San Francisco, and the director of the San Francisco Veterans Affairs Parkinson's Disease Research, education and Clinical Center. She's also principal investigator of the Fox insight survey and led the COVID nineteen survey. Thanks for joining US Dr. Taner. From really delighted to be here. Thank you Dr Ethan. Brown is assistant professor of neurology at University of California San Francisco. He was also lead architect, this survey and its analysis. Welcome Dr Brown into what? Risk also joining us today. Dan. More. Dan was diagnosed with Parkinson's in two thousand sixteen and Contracting Cove in nineteen. Earlier this year he contributed to the survey and we'll share his experience. Hi Dan. Agreed to be here great to have you and finally Dr. Maria. Daily on who was diagnosed with Parkinson's in two thousand eight and has also a retired movement disorder specialists. He too had coded nineteen symptoms and we'll discuss her experience any other impacts of this time in our collective history. Thank you for Sharing Maria. Thank you for having me here. Well, again, like I said, we've got a lot to discuss. So let's dive right in and and Dr Kanter to start with you and this survey as we said was was huge. We got a lot of data but what start by talking a little bit more about the motivation behind developing this survey and how you actually developed it. Well, the pandemic began to really intensify. We realized we had no answers to any of our questions. About how covid nineteen might be affecting people with Parkinson's and We looked to Fox inside as a way to reach out to the community and understand both for people who did have symptoms, how they might be affected, but also some of the. The other. Factors that we thought might be affecting people in the community even if a weren't. infected. With covid nineteen, and so we had the amazing intense experience of partnering with. Some people who were Parkinson's specialist a few infectious disease specialists who could help us understand a little bit more about the evolving pandemic, and then most amazingly this really dedicated small group of people with Parkinson's and other members of the community who are many of them were partners of people with Parkinson's but mostly people with Parkinson's and They helped us at every stage of the questionnaire development. They help us figure out things we should be asking they helped us figure out how we should be asking asking it, and then as we went through iterative. questionaire they also gave us feedback today where Guinea pigs taking the questionnaire over and over again and just worked with us all the way through. So it was a true partnership that I think made it a lot more relevant and meaningful in terms of what we wanted to learn and what we were able to find out. And Dan you're one of the people who took the survey early on why did you join? Of for me, it was important to. US my feedback to contribute to kind of data said that that they're building as far as adding to the researchers such A. you know not well understood evolving initiative and you know contribute whatever I could do to the program. Yeah and a lot of people contributed along with you we got over. Thousand responses in in about a month. So Dr Brown this is really impressive in in such a short amount of time. What does that tell you about you know just online research or what people WanNa know were how you do research I I think it's a it's tells you a lot first of all the huge testament to the fuck and the Parkinson's community we know and we're huge grateful to people's involvement in research in general I think people are incredibly motivated to help with research and this is just a huge part of that I think Dan said there's A. Big interest in people trying to understand the relationship doing covert and Parkinson's and try to contribute to that understanding. And I also think that especially around this time when people were sheltering in place more and you know this whole experience was all very new I. Think people were very eager to you know try to contribute ways that they can. So we were happy to provide ways that they could still contribute. I think that's right the online research this this road to sort of do something while we're stuck at home many of us still stuck at home and and to move research forward to learn more about something that we're all learning about he'll sign. We start to look at the data sticking with you. Dr Brown we see John of this over seven thousand people fifty one people who had Parkinson's and covert and twenty six for people without Parkinson's who had co Ed what would the criteria that you use? There's there's been so much about can you get a test? How do you get diagnosed and those sorts of things? So what was the criteria you use for diagnosing somebody with Cova during this time? That's a really good question and it's one that we kinda grapple with a lot and talking with other Environmental Health Infectious Disease Doctors Obviously, you know requiring a positive test for covid not. very appropriate because in a lot of situations especially in this time period, people couldn't access the test On the other hand you know the things changed from location to location we settled on a diagnosis from a healthcare professional. Diagnosis of Kobe that means that healthcare professionals suspected enough that Cova was going on to provide a diagnosis. We did also look at it more strict right here, which was requiring test. We did collect information on symptoms just in case people didn't receive a diagnosis and also you know where symptomatic and maybe one day we could look at that and and see if we could presume diagnosis. But in the end for this, we really decided that diagnosis from a healthcare professional was seem to be what other people are using, what was was hopefully a reliable way of identifying people with covert. Is there a balancing with reliable with realistic moment again as we're learning and we'll talk more later about how the survey still And you can continue to learn more about people as they continue to respond and about about the virus and Parkinson's but. Speaking of having difficulty with getting a past and having symptoms and not being sure which I know a lot of people have experienced. Maria. How about what you experienced with Kobe symptoms and again difficulty kind of getting a test than and those sorts of things. Yes my. My Road I'm sure as many people have have testified that it was not easy to get a diagnosis or even to be tested I begin with symptoms for the progress over a month period to the point that I was having a severe chest pain and difficulty breathing and I was shocked to Ramallah kitchen levels drop. So I was pretty convention my doctors that are had Covet like getting the test was not as easy began calling my my doctors about who do I needed to see in regards to one what was going on with me and also did I need to be tested on and my physicians said, well, you need to be tested by the by the center of this during the testing but then the testing, a senator was only open from you know. A limited amount of time was not open over the weekend and when I finally was able to get through to the center they said, well, you can't just have a test you need to go to your doctors, but the doctors have already referred me over there before that they had even asked because I was getting so bad to go to the hospital and the hospital said, well, you know if you. Think you have the, we think you have the Kobe then you need to go to the center so we can't do anything for you here. So they sent me home So it took about a week and a half for me to actually get tested and a month to get treatment for what was going on with me So then once I finally got the order for the Cova tasks. Over there, and then I went to the to the size and they said, no, you have to make an appointment so I had to leave again in the meantime the doctor had told me you know you need to get s ut To see what's going on and then the hospital which was at the hospital with which is being done. They said, well, we can't let you in if. If you think you have the COVID, we're not allowed to let patients. So so when the roundabout. Way To my finally got the chance and it took about five days longer to get the results So it was a very unnerving experience about you know and persistent. I can see why people really get sick and what people give up. You know if they're toll if they have so many barriers as to getting the test. In the meantime, it always pretty sick and I could barely you know I was I was weak and and weasing and chest pain, and so you know going back and forth you know and so it had to have somebody drive me and and so on. So that was very difficult. You don't have anyone to to do those things you then it's very hard to get. Tested and treated. Yeah, long and winding road there and you're not doing. That experience I'm I'm very sure of this and thank you for sharing that and for sharing your symptoms and your experience. We'll get a little bit more into your experience in Dan's as well. But as we move to the next slide, we start to see sort of the meat of the of the survey and the result and and one of the answers I think to a question people have been. Asking kind of nonstop just began one is you know if I have Parkinson's and my add an increased risk for getting the virus. But then also if I do get the virus, do I have a more severe course will have a more severe or worse experience with the virus Dr Taner. Can you tell us what you learned about the experience of Kobe in people with Parkinson's from this survey? Yeah. So I think the overall with the caveat that the we still have a relatively small number of people in groups is that it seems that the symptoms are not really that different and people with Parkinson's and people without Parkinson's who have covert. So we've looked at this slide shows you know the numbers of people who had more severe outcomes. So alone year or needing oxygen or going to the hospital or needing to be an ICU or on a ventilator, and particularly those last two things are very similar between people with Parkinson's and people without now this is. Not a population study and it's not a systematic collection. It's the people who came and told us their experience on Fox insight. So we have to think of it with that limitation, but the good news is of those people It didn't seem that the people with Parkinson's we're really more severe factor. So I think that's that's comforting. Yeah I think it again, there's been a lot of questions about ventilators needing to be in the hospital or those sorts of things. So you see very low number than you were mentioning things that we see in these manuscripts like they were not statistically significant and those sorts of things can you delve into that a little bit more sure I think overall, the numbers of people who had severe outcomes were low. So you know. Less than ten percent for almost everything and that's one good thing very small number of people who had the most severe outcomes of needing to be Nicu or on the ventilator and again if you had Parkinson's or if you didn't your risk of having some sort of you know. Worse form of covered seems to be thanks. So it doesn't look as if people who have Parkinson's are at risk of more severe. Version of the illness at least based on the people who came in and. And then you sort of were able to compare meal life because you had covert and your wife who I don't believe has Parkinson's also had Kovic. The you sort of have this experiment going on I suppose in real life of either. The Experience Parkinson's versus not with Parkinson's so can you tell us a little bit more about your experience Kovin and how it may or may not have compared to to the people around you? That's right. My wife does not have Parkinson's, but she she has covered I heard symptoms were very mild in fact. She had a fever just lasted for less than a day and it was so mild that we didn't think she added without some sort of. coincide it'll you know. Virus but I was having there was a severe outbreak at my place of work show. We were definitely on high alert and she got tested really because of that. So because I stayed home from work after she. After she got symptoms and then sure enough she does a positive and. That made me think mine was going to be an easy path. It was much harder than hers. So well, not fearing that I did not require hospital hospitalization fever that lasts for twelve days with really days eight through twelve being no fun at all and being pretty debilitating. So I was lucky enough to have a lot of family family fringe close by to provide some support But know so my mice really kicked in as you know, a severe fever kind of a lack of focus mental fog and A. Pretty Nasty cough it at a on on the back end. So we were all season of. Keeping a close eye on the oxygen levels and did not go to hospital but did do a couple of online visits with doctors. and you also mentioned some worsening of some of your movements tremor in particular, which we'll get into in the neck and we want to hear more about that. But that's really interesting to hear about your experience and how it compares to others, which again is the Bulls this survey. So Dr Brown I'll ask you if you have anything to add to what Dr Taner Dan said about how you know we we may or may not be capturing the full experience of Covid Parkinson's or this team preliminary data. Yeah. No, I think it's a really good point. I think the point that Dr Taner made I mean. Th. There may be a lot of people that are so sick that they haven't gotten to the survey or not able to access this survey and I think that's a that's a very you know a large point of this is that this was early on a lot of people got this during or after So keeping survey open going back and also maybe ask them about different types of symptoms to try to capture a different extent. You know as Dan mentioned. Just because two people have fever maybe it affects people in different ways relying on different family members, or or expecting your life differently. So maybe there are other ways to capture that too but I think that's the importance of keeping this survey open as this pandemic continuous. Definitely and so that kind of the focus of the quote. Unquote. Colbert experience in Parkinson's as we learned from the survey movements symptoms sometimes came on for the first time in your case, Dan worsened for a lot of people so. I'd like to start with you and hear about how your movement symptoms were affected by by the virus itself. Yeah so As you mentioned, my tremor was significantly worse as well as kind of a slower moving part of it but primarily for me really it was. In addition to the the normal kind of aches you've heard about most people with with covid severe h, but really as far as the PD X.. Symptoms when it was a significantly, you know uptick in in shakiness and. Trevor primarily for me and Maranh, you also experience changes in your Parkinson's movement symptoms. yes. I. Had I shall I usually have a lot of tremors but I felt very shaky inside and I was extremely. Warm see I was dropping and. Everything So aside from being different slower and just calling into a fog I was just very very. Clumsy felt like my Estonia got worse and and I was just kind of you know throwing things about you know spilling medicines and everything you know couldn't do really hold onto things very well and Dr. Taner, does that go along with what you saw from the other respondents in the survey that their movement symptoms worse than which ones in particular? Yes we did see that almost everyone that the actual symptoms of Parkinson's felt worth from some people actually had symptoms. During covered that, they didn't have before So that was a really really common out saying we do also see that in people with Parkinson's whoever other kinds of infections and while we don't know this yet for sure about covert what we do know in that situation is that over time as people recover generally there Parkinson's symptoms improve and kind of go back to baseline. So we're hopeful that that will happen here too, and of course, having people come back and continue to give us information will help us to understand that better for the covert infection. I think that's an important point to make, and then you can also speak to the about your tremor I think is is still a little bit worse now. So I guess how long that sort of temporary period may laugh We don't quite know yet is that right Dr Taner? You were saying that Co bid maybe particularly prolonged and so there's this period of worsening. We don't know how long that may laugh. That's right. I mean I I know from you know people I know who don't have Parkinson's but who did have cova got the recovery period can be a really long time as as both as a panelist said, it's nasty disease and can take quite a while they're feel that you're really back to normal again. So we would expect that may pertain here too and You know this is a great opportunity for us to to understand more about that in in Parkinson's and how to be able to take take care of people better. And Dan just that if you have anything to add there, you were saying the ear tremor is still continuing even a couple months later is that right? Correct. So I figure there's been a slow back. So you know wh-why while it ramped up significantly during during that period, it has been getting better but I feel like I'm still not back to baseline and for reference by my symptoms were sickness really late March kind of first. So here we are a few months later and I feel like it's still You know mostly mostly better but but still more elevated was prior and interestingly Kinda saw that with my my workouts to to doctors points about how hard it is to recover you know. I could hardly workout to begin with and it took a couple of months before I kinda got back to what I felt like was baseline from the standpoint as well. Encouraging that you're you're back your baseline from that standpoint I suppose but but not not helpful to have to go through that long of a period to get their. tanner you mentioned that. Whether, it's coated or a urinary tract infection or whatever it is. We often be that Parkinson's symptoms get worse during infection but Dr Brown. I. Guess I'll ask you why does that happen? Do we know is that the virus itself is something related to the virus? Is it how medication isn't working as well? You know that's a really good question I think that we don't fully understand and you know whether or not it has to do with the. Severity. The there is I will say there are a lot of. Theories about the inflammation and its relationship to Parkinson's, and there have been a lot of discussion on covert and you know a site kind storm that occurs and a lot of. Amatori response so Could that somehow be tied you know on the other hand whenever anyone is feeling bad or anything a lot of different types of symptoms both neurological non neurological make it worse maybe just our ability to compensate for a lot of things is impaired when where you know when our bodies focused on fighting off an infection, there's some theories about you know alteration dopaminergic. Signaling, and and certainly alterations in medication absorption as well. that have. been brought up with past. Reports of of infection. And Parkinson's symptoms but I think that you know we don't. We don't really know we don't really understand like others have said I think I think it is important and it's a very kind of practical question for a lot of patients. I will just say that there haven't been you know this is certainly the largest. studied to date in terms of WHO's evaluating these types of issues there have been other small reports of people with Parkinson's in Kobe at the reported similar things like. Whereas name motor symptoms or adjustment of medications and I think that's another you know very practical question. Do you adjust your medications when when we think these these issues are going to be reversible and so I think this is really trying to get at some of those and see if we can help answer some of those questions and along the lines of medications and things like that question came in and. Dr Brian I'll stay with you about do we know if we're taking medication for no-bid or if they had changes in their Parkinson's medication so I guess perhaps that could be one reason for worsening if you lower your Parkinson's medication, your some things could get worse. So do we know anything about if in how people medication changed or they got treatment for Cova during during this time? It's really good question We did collect information about whether or not people were treated for covert at this stage. You know when still perhaps your the. Standard. Treatments for Komen we did ask people about what types of treatment they received if they were any investigational treatments and listed a number of potential treatments at the time too. Obviously, you know it's changed over the course of time We have people a little bit about. Parkinson's medications for. Probably supplied throughout talks insight. Those are really good good issues to look at as well. In good questions from our listeners. If you're enjoying this podcast, share it with a friend or rate and review it on I tunes. It helps listeners like you find support our mission Michael J. Fox Dot Org. Thanks for listening now back to the podcast. Moving on now now that not that motor symptoms that we thought people with Parkinson's pad new or worse motor symptoms that we see in the next slide, the same thing happened with the non motor symptoms that people with Parkinson's and Co bid had worse or new non motor symptoms and Maria and Dan I. Know that you both experienced these on different fronts. Dan. You talked about your fatigue particularly with exercise. I think there was also some anxiety which I'll raise my hand as somebody who's without Parkinson's he's having anxiety during this time. Can you tell us a little bit more about your experience with any other non motor symptoms or expand more on the fatigue and anxiety you experienced and why during the time? To give the new on his. Anxiety just for the lack of understanding especially given the time period of late March of lack of understanding of what was going on with covert in general and then really having no kind of inside a how that might affect me with with PD. So you know from a is very uncertain time period with with so many unknown factors that in it was hard to get definitive answer. It was hard enough to get in touch with doctors at the time so I was. All my general practitioner was great and I had felt like almost too concerned with the disease were were that kind of made me a little bit more anxious and and he seemed to be It was during the time period when we're really being advised. Not to go into hospitals unless you need to. You. He was getting a little uncomfortable with how long the Kobe symptoms were lasting and it was almost pushing me towards that end where I'm not sure he would be if a if I was a non PD person which Kinda led to again more the anxious feelings about whether to just sit at home and write it out or to go in and and seek help during a time when hospitals were overrun and didn't feel like a safe place to be. Yeah, absolutely and Marie I think you were saying some of the same things about being nervous about going to a hospital. We've seen people who've avoided care during this time for strokes and heart disease and other things because they're worried about going into either Dr going into the hospital and things like that. So certainly, a lot of anxiety around that and anxiety around the unknowns as you mentioned and Maria you were also. Saying anxiety around not being sure if you can take care of your family when you hear so sick and and things like that. What else did you experience? Well you know it's funny because I. I definitely want of Sleepiness and usually with any kind of infection whether it'd be UPI. Anything I I know there's something going on when I started becoming very sleepy and this early was the case again, you know it just sleep enough sleeping for hours and getting you know mental fog but also I course I had chain of taste I lost about ten to fifteen pounds because nothing tasted right it just you know Israel congested nothing was tasting but on and on that problems blood pressure was dropping and heart rate was going up really high and. So. There was a lot of changes and you know some of the sweeping problems in that that usually common with with any kind of other underlying illness. But certainly not not an omic problems and the taste laws but also had severe head that just would not go away and you know talking to other colleagues have treated a lot of people who come in and the positive even after the seems to be a lingering headache and I certainly experienced that. But even after I started feeling better normalizing offer any of the other sleeping or other issues My headache was still lasted for another couple of weeks I was still having a chronic. Severe headache you know kind of like a micro were you know you just wrote license annoy sensitive and things like that I don't know if anybody else has seen that but when I got to the point where I was having, you know oxygen was dropping highway was going up and and I could barely walk or anything and everybody was sleeping I'm like deciding do I need to go to the hospital you know that you're scared you know you're going to be admitted you gotta be intimated that type of thing. So so that was a very you know that just didn't make my symptoms better. Of course, it made everything worse my. Body made, of course, my heart rate go up and and You know the cognitive changes you know just kind of get more irritable and things like that. So decided you know flight fortunately you know my doctors put me I was taking plaque when l. and put mysteries and things, and then I also because of the Parkinson's and I don't know if this has anything to do that I have been taken a man today and and you know like. Thinking about the the flu of nineteen eighteen you know how a man to and help with that. I don't know if that has you know any anything with that. But I'm just glad that I ended up not having to have any kind of admission to be you know with respiratory failure or anything like that. The outpatient treatment were fine. So you you there's still in their Marie. I don't know how to get to all of them, but you know you mentioned. I think we can talk about later but but this big thing, and we've talked about in the last two sides about movements, symptoms, worsening non movement symptoms coming on or worsening, and Dr Brown so much concern rightfully. So about how do I know is if this is Colbert or not how do I know if I should go in and get tested or talk? To my doctor Maria Menounos the teague or getting sleepy is often a harbinger of illness her. So she kind of knows herself in that way. But how do you know if you're getting worse? You know that you should go into your doctor if you should go into your doctor what what are you telling people right now I mean I think that it's it's really A good question and challenging and I think it was more. So at this time when a lot of people didn't know and I think that now we're we're certainly telling people not to you know to seek care if they feel sicker even if they think maybe it's just Parkinson's symptoms getting worse normal fluctuations and you know if they would normally seek care. From their doctor I think that I think they should. I think more and more there are ways that people can do so remotely out of through telephone or video So you know there is a large risk or people are worried about that. Then then they can do it through. You know that way remotely possible think and there's we've found I. Mean I think? One of the you know silver linings are realizations of this pandemic. We've really found how how effective we can be remotely for those that we able to and how much we can get done over the phone and council people but. So I think I think really trying to reach out if people feel that symptoms are or anything else is getting worse. Yeah I think that's a great point and you know if you're concerned if your symptoms are getting worse, certainly you should speak with your doctor and and as you mentioned Dr Around Telemedicine is much more widely available right now. So hopefully that that the point where you can access tear more easily even for mental health care providers and things ID is biking for us. So but certainly getting in touch with Dr Keeping those open line of Communication. Dr Taner Anything Pad, their. No I think eastern really covered I. Think you know just being being aware that Changes in Parkinson. ISM and especially, you know sort of really dramatic changes might be signal and it would be really important to reach out. To your. Doctor. To make sure you're taking church. So thinking with you on a completely different question, Dr Taner Maria mentioned law, which can often go with no loss and I think he's a lot in the news about you is being potential symptoms of coal bed But we also know that now lot can happen in Parkinson's. So lots of questions around this. What what did you see in the survey? What do you tell people about this right now you know so many people with Parkinson's already have a reduced sense of smell that's a really common Experience or people with Parkinson's, and as you point out sometimes you're not as aware of the smell that smell and taste go together and so your your ability to perceive tastes or to enjoy certain tastes make mega down So that's common people with Parkinson's so it was remarkable to us was that. people noticed even change that it got worse and we're able to report that even if they already had a reduced sense of smell and then some people who who didn't have it or hadn't been aware of it also noticed it when they were affected with Kovin and something also to kind of an another reason to keep the study open long-term right so that we see more if in how this evolves and changes over time. Yeah absolutely. Yeah I mean they're also where people I think it may be on a flight that's coming up who noticed this who hadn't been diagnosed and you know as Maria mentioned. Getting diagnosed wasn't all that easy. And so it interesting to us as we look forward to, you know try to understand whether some of the symptoms that people experience mayor been undiagnosed infections or not. All such great information and information is I. Think. So helpful at this moment what we're learning what we know what we don't know and and we talked about the impact of covert on people the impact of the covert on people with Parkinson's who actually got the virus but we saw Dr Brown in the survey that the impact extended pretty broadly could people in the Parkinson's population didn't even have the the virus itself or didn't test positive for say or didn't have a physician diagnosis. So tell us a little bit more about those broad impacts that the pandemic has had that you saw on the survey. Yeah I. Think I. Think this is really important while the questions about people with Parkinson's and Co bit is is obviously very interesting very important they were. Obviously a number of people a lot more at least in the survey that we're affected by the pandemic virtually everyone has been. You know really want to understand how people with Parkinson's who relied so much on outpatient care exercise. Really. A whole system of antler services. Often involve leaving the house and interacting with other people and that we could really found can help. People with Parkinson's in terms of their symptoms and and their overall wellbeing. So that was part of the inspiration for trying to understand how the pandemic affected. these people that were not infected by Kobe we presume but still still obviously had to undergo all the shelter in place guidelines and restrictions from the pandemic so. We found a large number of people that had impact obviously to their healthcare to exercise activity to social activities we asked about a variety of different types of social activities like the poor groups community, gathering, volunteer, experience, religious gatherings A lot of those were were either postponed or cancelled and a lot of impact on the central daily activity as well. So you know disruptions of things like getting essential services, home care other types of support in the house. and a lot of this also Kinda was associated with worsening symptoms in people who Didn't necessarily have covert but we're in the pandemic You know one other kind of there's a lot to talk about this and we talk about a lot. In the manuscript patrol which we're working on, but the you know important point too is how many people were able to find other. Avenues of doing these types of things. So if some everything two types of social activities and exercise activities, there was A. Decent number of people that were able to find different ways you know because you're me to tell A. Telemedicine or other types of of virtual visits and continue these activities and you know the hope would be that would be even more accessible and more available in the future. This continues. Yeah. That's absolutely right and that's in. We'll talk about this on the next slide. But something that we need to continue to advocate for the future is more widespread and continued access the Tele Madison. But as you detailed really nicely, there were such broad impacts on things that are so important to Parkinson's care. The cornerstones of not only just seeing your doctor and and and getting in touch with your doctor. But exercise you getting support seeing your family and friends, and and when these things were sort of cut off, people really did have to find alternative ways to keep their activity going to. Maintain their social connections and and we're still in in that moment in in very many ways but damn will are with you and then Maria, I'll I'll ask you to add in how did you experience these changes? How did you adapt and overcome? Are you still working through them Yeah. So it was obviously highly disruptive to to. Routines I think that everybody in the world had regardless of whether you're affected or not for me. Exercise working out is a central part of my approach to managing Parkinson's disease and so you know. From a standpoint of the siblings and cove. Impossible for for a while there now, I was fortunate enough to. My Garage GonNa outfit as a partly as a gym. once I was able to get up and moving. I was lucky enough to have a outlet for that rather than like so many friends who couldn't get to a gym or wherever they might have done their exercise before but then it was you know. As I mentioned before it just a very slow start to to get things going again So it was hard to say you know what part of my you know uptick in tremor and some of the other symptoms were due to Kobe or do just losing my usual routine of working out and and that that kind of prompt approach absolutely, and again, just being adapted, finding other ways to exercise these social maintain your community. Maria. Anything to add there. Well, it's funny because for me, I think that Having been you know having. Parkinson's for for a number of years now, pretty well adapted to to deal in things because there are so many fluctuations and a lot of times I'm not able to to get out or do things. So I think I have already a good support system and routine that I can do things you know from home and actually having being this pandemic has actually improved my social activities because Now, I'm able to do a lot of those Dancing and art therapy things through teller web with with the very Sunday she's been working a lot with the. community with the Muhammad Ali with Parkinson furnishing. So we've been teaching the patients, how to access telemedicine zoom. So we've been, I've been a lot more active and doing activities with them and having my daughter back from college. Now, we have weekend exercise and do things together here at home where you know before hours, you know a solo. So for me, it's been it's been more of a blessing been able to do a lot more than they should do math feel guilty when I'm not out because a lot of times you know that you know you're you're not you're not well and you WANNA go socialize new. person, but then everybody's home. We. Can you know talk to each other and do things? Together without having to feel that you know that bill does not be able to go out and so. Two different spend more family time a lot lot more family time for a lot of us. Especially our. apartments. In New, York City you're mentioning a lot as you always do Maria you're talking about you know being optimistic and looking for the benefits and the Silver Lining Dr Brown you mentioned. So relenting before, but we got a question from the audience and Dr Ronald, start with you but about any benefits reported in the slowing down of society during this time, and you can keep that broad in society or you can keep it focused on the Parkinson's community. That is a really good question and I. Don't know if we've looked in detail at that I think we did see you know. Marie mentioned we did catcher those who are able inducted these activities in other ways, and that seemed to be helpful for a lot of people in terms of preventing worsening of symptoms. but I think it's a you know in terms of you know are there are there new benefits to that I? Think that's a that's a really good question. I'm not sure Dr. Taner comment. But I I'm not sure if our survey Really addressed those questions as much I think that's something realizing more and more dependent continues I think than you benefit for me. As a patient is access to the physicians because my physicians are three or four hours away, and so now I, don't have to worry not well or you know having to keep that appointment I still can have access to to them So that's been the biggest benefit of this for me. And before we move on from this, I want to mention something really important that you thought patterns and Taner that you know we're talking all about you know being adaptive looking at benefits, people finding work arounds and those sorts of things. But you saw some patterns of disparity is that certain groups had difficulty obtaining medications or finding other ways to get care or to exercise to tell us a little bit more about that and how can use that information to be more inclusive in our in our research So I think you know opportunities for advocacy are the take home from the the prior discussion, and then these findings that we had that people who were in lower income who had lower income or people who were not white had more difficulties obtaining access to medications or other things. access to alternatives such as telemedicine or online other online opportunities like exercising or medication for support groups were were reduced and so. We you know we've been advocating for making these services available to people in General I. Think Maria makes a great point that this reduces burden and improves the opportunities for care for people with Parkinson's in general and I think the next step of our advocacy is to be able to continue that Post Copa, but also to expand that access and it's An opportunity for all of us to kind of you know pick this up and and move it forward. So that everybody would Parkinson's has these opportunities. Yeah. I think that's the right opportunities to expand in care and research to be more inclusive, and we're we're certainly working on many friends not only with the survey, but across research and as you said across care. I've been moved to our last lied before getting into even more questions. We're getting a lot of questions about the the survey respondents than thou so. Never, Brown will start with you and Dr Taner. You can add in but can you tell us a little bit more about who took the survey? Was it all people from the United States, was it across all stages of Parkinson different ethnicities tell again, just a little bit more insight into who actually was responding to the survey. Yeah. That's a great question and we know we do go into detail in the. Report The So out of Out of the people that responded it was. Down have the exact numbers here but it was somewhere around you know saw a little over five thousand of the respondents did have Parkinson's and arrested. mostly in the US but it was global we had a pretty wide presentation. There were other large countries where places like the UK Canada, Todd some other countries in Europe like Spain but they were representations from from a number of different countries Australia. distribution within Parkinson's disease was actually a lot better than we expected. there was A. Large distribution in terms of duration of disease. So there are some people that had Parkinson's for relatively short amount of time, but at a good amount of. From people that have had it for more than six years or even more than nine years. had. Parkinson's for that long. So you know. So we thought and there was as as you mentioned, you know the the disparities in care that we saw and it's a problem in Parkinson's research in general that those are the small minority. So we don't have a large. Number of ethnic diversity or racial diversity income diversity. But the fact that we were still able to see the disparities I think is is a real testament to to the advocacy that we need is Dr Taner mentioned and future goals, certainly, fucking consent of our online efforts to try to make. These these types of assessments more diverse because I think, we have a real opportunity to be able to recruit people from a lot of different types of backgrounds. And such an important point in such an important learning that we we do really need to work on a couple more just to we're getting anymore. So interested did you know that or can you tell us the age range of people in the survey or the with and without Parkinson's didn't didn't have co bit and then also expand on if you know anything about where people actually contracted Kobe? Dr Brown. Yeah. Sure I was just looking at the numbers, the age range So for people with people with. Parkinson's Disease Co bid. It was the Adrian just forty to eighty nine. in the average age with five. People. In general. With Parkinson's disease, the age range was as low as thirty three in is high as in the nineties. we do not know you know in terms of we know some details in terms of locations where people I think maybe mean geographic in terms of where people can traffic ovid or or in terms of like specific exposures like work. We know geographically. You know certainly in the US most of the cases came from the US within the US I believe most cases in York and California but there was wide representation across the country but were there other questions I'm sorry. No I think those are probably more will come through. But as I said, people are just very interesting. I, think the question that certainly one that that we've heard for a long time right is that if you are older, you are at higher risk of getting Kobe Parkinson's or not, and so I think that you know that may be where that question is coming from. Of Understanding and maybe you can tell us Dr Brown or doctor. Tanner if you saw was there any discrepancy in age did was did it seem like people who were older and had Parkinson's or more likely to get cold or were you able to see that show? I think important to note that the youngest person with Parkinson's in Kobe was forty and the youngest one. was covered who didn't have Parkinson's was thirty and so. I think you know being cautious is. Irrespective of your age is important and you know the average age was sixty five for people with Parkinson's and fifty seven people without in our in our group. So. You know again this is. A little bit limited by where only reporting on the people who came and gave us information. But I think even in general we're recognizing that. you know maybe popular press suggested in the beginning that you're immune if you're younger and I don't think that that's playing out at this point and Dr Taner sticking with you. You're very clear about what the survey and can't tell why and that you know one of the questions again that comes up over and over is you know with Parkinson's in another itself and my higher risk for getting pulled ahead But more specifically, we're getting a question about if I have Parkinson's should I consider myself Boehner -able. Here on the news that you know vulnerable populations are more likely to get covert or having more of your course. So. Can you tell us more about that or how you think about that? Yeah. So a from the survey that we did because we didn't go out and look at everybody in the population we can't really say or you at greater risk because you have Parkinson's than than someone else from the perspective of taking care of yourself I think it would be reasonable. To take precautions and not put yourself in situations at risk and you know do all the the things we talked about in terms of you know wearing masks in washing hands, avoiding places You know where you might just be too close to other people and. Not Have Control over that. So I think that's that's good advice. For people to follow and you were talking about some author advice on you know keeping ourselves safe. So we're we're really not out of the woods here yet, but you know again with or without Parkinson's you know wearing that making sure you're washing your hands frequently social distancing although ruled vilified after ten or anything that you would add there specifically for people with Parkinson's I think the only thing would be to to reemphasize what we what we said earlier when we were talking that. If you do find yourself feeling, you know not not well or you're a little concerned about yourself don't wait and you know. Be In touch with with your physicians and Make sure that you're you're in a in a relationship with your healthcare provider that you can get the best care possible. Absolutely an interesting question Dr? Taner or Dr. Brown can take this one from our audience that I've heard temperature recordings from people with Parkinson's maybe unreliable, and that's due to that autonomic dysfunction that involuntary that work of nerve that controls our temperature blood pressure digestion, and and so anything that we know or don't yet know about how temperature may or may not be a reliable indicator of of Kovin in in people with Parkinson's. As, far as I know people with Parkinson's if they're infected and they have a fever you, you can measure that even I don't know how many other. Information No. I think that's and we did we did look at people with among people with covert and again small numbers. a special population, but they there were no differences between. The temperature recorded or Concealed fever and people with Kobe with him without but I agree with that I? Think as far as I know. that should should be reliable although keeping in mind I guess that you know not people may have other presentations. Eighty I. The fact of not having a fever to be reason not to go right to to be in touch with your doctor if you're otherwise feeling. For. Sure. Yeah, that makes sense. So if you if you have other symptoms that you're not having a fever and make sure you still get those other symptoms evaluated, that's right Another question Dr Brown maybe you can start with this one about genetic subgroups that may or may not be at a higher. Did you look at people with genes that are associated with Parkinson's like lurk to GPA? Do you know anything about that and Co bid to your? That's a good question. There was some suggestion some genetic risk in another study actually what they April four Eleo, which is more related to Alzheimer's, or they'll also may have some you know relationship with Parkinson's and symptoms in Parkinson's. Are you know it's a very, there were some people that had gina typing through Fox insight which is. Possible for people with Parkinson's disease So we were able to look at that in a very small group of people and we didn't find any You know differences in terms of risk to what extent we could look at or changes in symptoms. So it's hard to say with such small numbers, but we we didn't detect that and to just to emphasize not only. People for there is no association but we did look also at the people who did have GPA Associated Parkinson's associated mutations unlocked who mutations and there was no different than those people either. Well, we could talk for another hour. This topic on this survey, but we're a major already at the end of our our together I. I would like to give you the opportunity to give a couple of laughs, socks or words about your experience or the survey. So Dan it, you'd be able to start just tell our audience again maybe what you'd like to leave that West today. I think the the Fox the nation is doing such great work in conducting this survey without the Jewish team doctors on board here So you know it's really an honor to be able to contribute to. Be Part of the data that hopefully comes up with the managers that can can help guide people who might be affected in the future So Y- you for having me and and super excited to be part of this project. So grateful for your participation and Maria, how about you? We? Also I should say got a comment that somebody in our audience has your book and recommended it to their Parkinson's support group. Thank you very much I appreciate it. Thank you for allowing me to be who is your part of this experience trying to figure out how things impact you know not just Parkinson's been neurologically at I think as doctor Dr Brown. Bag for doing this but also you know real like that. If there's any changes in any of the Parkinson's symptoms whether it's cove it or not I think that they need to be in touch with her their. Right away to make sure that there's nothing else going on but and the only thing that I would love to see this in in Spanish so that we can get more information about disparity and how it's affecting in the communities outside of you know what we have so far. So we go out to work with you guys if you get. Your. Ping us with that. Yeah and and you said you know thanks for allowing you to participate but we can't do it without you Maria. We can't do it without older now. Who Participated in the survey? So the thank you all and Dr Brown anything. You'd like to leave our audience with. I just the reiterating grateful. We are to the Parkinson's community both participating in the in the research and the survey for a can't imagine a community that could. Provide us with information. So rapidly when when you know Information as important to get quick cleanest setting. But also on the design side and really helping us, you know continuing to help us understand the. Right questions to ask and what matters to the community. So I just really think think to everyone and they're looking out for more opportunities to inform us on this subject. Yeah. There with us every step of the way and Dr Taner any last words. Yeah. So I just echo everything that has been sent by the panelists before This is I think a great demonstration of the partnership and how powerful that can be in terms of really rapidly. Advancing understanding and being able to move forward to make change and I encourage anybody who hasn't yet signed up to sign up and provide us with information and it'd be part of that and we look forward to learning more as we go forward. So thanks a lot. Yeah. Thank you and the survey is still open as you mentioned and and people can join now and in the future. So thank you all for being here for during your experience for sharing your expertise. Thank you our audience for joining us and for being part of our community please stay home they say but most importantly stay connected. Thanks for listening. Community members like you are bringing us closer than ever to a world without Parkinson's disease learn how you can support the Michael J. Fox. Foundation. In its mission at Michael J. Fox. Dot? Org. Michael J. Fox. Thanks for listening to this podcast. Learn more about the Michael J. Fox Foundation Work and how you can help speed a cure and Michael. J. Fox. Dot Org.
Ep. 286: Rose Waters Benefits & The Weeks Beauty News
"Let's talk about ice cream fowley. It's jen hi. Everyone listen eye. Cream is so tough to recommend and for a long time now. I haven't recommended one to mascara listeners. Because you all have a different issue. Somebody crows feet. Another person has dark eyes circles. They wanna fix somebody else has puffiness until now. I haven't found an eye cream that can address. All of that clarence new. Total i lift is the solution. It's ninety four percent natural origin ingredients. It uses a blend of organic howard ghana extract. Cassie flower wax. And what that's going to do is give you an almost immediate smoothing kind of lifting effect so within sixty seconds your whole i area looks brighter. But like just sort of like smoothed out and like a nice flow like just put a filter over your eyes. And then i'll have you keep using it because you'll get more of the benefits over time again. It's called clarence total. I left like. I said ninety. Four percent of ingredients are of natural origin. And get this clarence is going to give you ten percents off your order if you wanna learn more and get ten percent off good clarence. Usa dot com and use the code fat mascara ten at checkout again. That's clarence usa. Dot com c. l. a. r. i. n. s. usa dot com and use the code fat mascara ten at checkout for ten percent. Off would've welcome everybody to fatten skara. I'm jess hijaz. I'm jen hello. Everyone welcome welcome welcome. I hope everyone is doing okay. I hope everyone is hanging in a right jan hooks. You doing Honestly better because of our community. It's been a rough a rough couple months. Well two months end. But i've gotten so many supportive messages about You know my father-in-law and what we've been through at the sullivan family. And i love love love. How much support. There is out there. And i love you guys. I really appreciate it. And i don't wanna be like debbie downer at the top of the show but you know it's hard sometimes to manufacturer had cheer. Yeah people move on really quickly and you're like it's actually like right when something bad happens is actually somehow a little bit better than a little bit after it happens because then it settles in and it's real you know. Yeah so but and it's been a rough week. I don't know it's been a rough week in the in the in the nation in the world too so we were still doing beauty though. We're gonna bring you the show as as we normally do. And it's and we have a garden party. It's a. It's a branded segment. Brought to you by crabtree. But like just and i've been working on this for awhile and we're really. We're really happy with our garden party. I'll tell you that much before. We knew that i know. I know we're going to take you to a happy place. There's cats hats. Cats hats a mushroom handles. I listened back to after we recorded it. I'm like wow jessica. I sound like we're a little bit trip. In and alison wonderland. But i love it. I love it for us. I am drug-free baby. If this is all the the magic. Mind of jessica. Matlin okay true. It's just the rosewater nyse. That's all we've been drinking the rosewater not all make sense when you when you hear the segment before that we have our beauty news extra special edition with them you know. We'll we'll take a deep dive on some topics that are important to us so l. And of course will end the show with raise a wand. Am i missing anything. Just now no i think i think that's i think that's really what we have for you today but then come back two days later and even more so. That's that's excellent interview on thursday as well so All right. Let's do the news okay. Let's hit it okay. So it's time for the news. I have to bring up. We talked about this. Just actually while you were away. I talked about this was monday. And guest co host. The rise in anti aging american and pacific islander here in the united states has been very disturbing and how beauty companies have been. Some have been supportive and we. We named checked a few well. With last week's murders in atlanta this is really come to the forefront. A more urgent discussion here in the united states. And i've been watching what the beauty community is doing. It and i have to say i was really impressed with on l. dot com to great roundtable with beauty experts and founders discussing with the beauty industry can do to support the very communities of which they profit you know and they had a lot of prominent names with excellent quotes. If you wanna learn more about You know what. Our friends in the asian american and pacific islander community are going through and also be supportive. That's good place to start. I also noticed Some brands are stepping up with monetary donations. For example you know jawara It was actually started by a three friends. Indonesian japanese chinese heritage and it sort of it takes a lot of its rituals from indonesia. The south pacific islands they are donating ten percent of their sales From sir select products through april to stop a a p. I hate which is a great organization and there are some other brands. That are doing things like this as well. So we'll put links on the blog But i just wanted to share all of that because you know this is a really important topic here in the states. And i'm not. I actually haven't looked at international news yet to see if it's resonating across the globe and i hope it is and if not if you're one of our listeners who aren't in the united states then Definitely check out the blog so you can learn more about what's going on excellent. I'm really happy to see such a groundswell of support and so quickly from a lot of brands just in the past couple of days yeah. Lp's it's been a rough year for that can be and just this past week has been really disturbing In good news. Virginia has joined three other states to ban animal testing in sale of animal tested cosmetics. There's also there's been bills in california nevada in illinois. Excellent end the representative. Who brought this out in. Virginia is going to be trying to pass federal legislation. I think that's that we've tried that before. But i feel like this time here in the states. There's going to be a lot of support for a bill to ban. Animal testing all throughout the united states. Zsa hallelujah Oh this is really interesting okay. So there was a high school student in poland. She was really disturbed about reports of rising domestic violence During the lockdown so this is high to beauty so her thoughts on how to help with that as she launched a online beauty shop. That was like a fake storefront. So that people who were victims or who were having problems with domestic abuse could go to this website and they would look like they were shopping for beauty products was called cava meals and pansies and if their partner or whomever was there violent. Or who's muslim problem saw. It would just look like they were shopping for phasing them but if they put into the customer service rep like oh you know i want to order this face cream and have it sent to this address. It's code that the authorities should be sent to that address and so it's a way for because the beauty community. And that we hear this. All the time from hairstyles and things like that beauty community some of the first people to know about domestic violence so it made sense that this could be the way to help people. Isn't this genius. Oh genius. I just hope. I hope that people find out about it. I'm like how do people find out about this. Mean i know that's because it's a code. But they already. I believe and i have to double check. It was like thousand people have already been helped with the website. And then i was like this woman is or young woman only in high school when she started this. I'm so impressed with a su- youth. Thank you an wonderful idea. That is a great idea and i. I wonder what inspired her to do it. She must have some story. I mean that is really really. That's really moving. That's really yeah So we'll put a link to her site and also there are other sites like this where they look like. They're for something else but there really to help Domestic abuse victims and and you can learn more about that all right up cycling beauty news. I've some real quirky weird things. I found this week. So there's a gin companies on her forty nine year old gen company adams. I think it's british. They've partnered with full circle. Obedient ingredients supplier. A lot of brands are doing this where they have their. They make their product and their unused fit their unused thing day. Like we're going to going to throw this out. No maybe we can turn into something well. Barley seed ferment filtration which is a byproduct of when you make jin. You know you're fermenting or you know herbs and barley to make the jin it used to get thrown out so this beauty manufacturers taking that barley seed for medfield trade and they're using it to make an ingredient called gin tonic. t. o. N. t. o. Fine all out allow it. But basically it's a moisturizing ingredient so they add it to glycerine and the barley seed for mental trait. It the glycerin three times more moisturizing and they did clinical studies on this ingredient. It reduces inflammatory markers it's soothing. It's calming so full. Circles now marketing this raw material to beauty brands. So how this affects you. It's i haven't found it used in any products yet. But you know how. I'm beauty brands will go to these big conventions and they find some new cool ingredient that they wanna put in their stuff. You might start to see up. Cycled jin byproduct in your beauty products. And you'll know that cool that would have ended up in the trash but instead it's gonna moisture is my family. I could just see some brand already like doing some like hangover relief. Gin tonic how i see that. Yeah we haven't seen much yet but that feels just right for beauty and so little marketing story. But it's also. I love whenever the beauty world is able to upcycle ingredients. That's really cool Okay and not last. But let's move over gen science corner shall we shall we shall. let's do it New research explains why odors trigger powerful memories. So we've long known we've talked about this on the show in our fierman niche special episode. Researchers often talk about how more than any other sense when you smell something in your memories are triggered for better or worse for better or worse. High ex-boyfriend so i've written about this and like when you try and explain it. I've even had fact checkers be like but why. But how and just kind of just like oh the olfactory bulb is near the hippocampus and mcdonough and then you run away. Just get it or near each other and it's just that's why because it's really hard to explain why that is but everybody who has smelled something like from preuss. All the way up to us knows how quickly can trigger memory will new research published in the journal progress neurobiology one of my favorite reads found a reason. Okay let me make sure i get this right so i don't screw it. Up the researcher christina zalono and assistant professor of neurology at northwestern university explained it like this to science daily quote vision hearing and touch her all rerouted and the brain as the neo. Cortex expanded connecting with the hippocampus through an intermediary association cortex rather than directly however this study data suggests faction didn't undergo this rerouting. Instead it retains direct access to the hippocampal direct so base-. Yeah so basically. It's like a superhighway from smell to the hippocampus. It's not just other near each other in the brain or whatever reason unlike other senses your brain is wired so that it goes right straight there and that helps explain why odors and aromas incense trigger memories so we can stop saying to the fact checker. They're near each other. We can say they're big bosom buddies. They are like hand in hand. They are connected by a superhighway according to professor zelano. In your face when susan to get really antagonistic. With your fact gymnast. No no we have a footnote. What our susan. Just call me all right. See we have a great report great report. Yeah so i'm not saying that's news. I love knowing why because that's something interesting. Now i'd like to throw it to our gwyneth. Paltrow news corner which is going to be led this week this week. This is not news. Corespondent jessica matlin. okay now. I know this is silly. But like i read your article. You interviewed gwyneth. Paltrow for harper's bazaar yes. And i want the back story. I don't want what everybody else's reading on harper's bazaar this is so awesome. Okay tell me how the interview because you brought. She gave you a bunch of great and he talked about some good stuff in just a short article is a very short article. You can read in about two minutes. It's on harper's bazaar dot com. I was really excited. Because i've actually never interviewed gwyneth. Paltrow and Following her queer. For a long time. I you know i am fascinated by gp. I you know. I know that she brings up a lotta feelings for a lot of people. I am really a huge admire. What she is built. And i am really i. Was you know. We talked about her when she became the face of ziamon which is a neuro modulator. So that is like an anti wrinkle injection just talks just like sport and ziamon is not as well known as talks and when she came out as the face of the amid. I think a lot of us were like. Wow you know this is. This is a bold move for an actress and entrepreneur. And i think a lot of us didn't expected also as somebody who is the face of goop which is really like the not. You know a leader and like the natural organic kind of like wavy gravy conversation. So i was like. This is a ballsy brave move. Well i wrote the article. Please read it will link to it but what ivan most excited about is the reaction in the past week this articles a week old okay So many germs have reached out to me jen so many people i was like the reaction from who the re what are they saying from people in the aesthetics community they are okay thank you thank you thank you but not just like thanks just matlin like thank you when of paltrow for tongue and thanks jazz fine. Thanks bizarre fine for talking about this because they're frustrated by having done so much work with so many different high profile people and then seeing them go online and talk to you know like you know celebrity correspondence you know like the ease of the world. The brazil world would ever and being like it's just water. It's you know we talked about the olive oil brook on from naked beauty. You know it's joe. Yeah it's it's it's it's good genes in my mom. She taught me to the olive oil. Secret greenwich coming out there being like i need extra help so and i and i did not look pissed. Aw i loved yes. She says she s she said i needed to not look pissed off so i thought that was really interesting that it's coming from the medical community I also am really curious what you think gen. She is gwen. Like you know yes. She cannot take credit for movements. Like yoga you know jada eggs or sexual positive. Bod is actual positively. I'm not saying gwyneth his these things she is not. She is not to be dead clear about that. She has definitely give them a boost. Give them a boost. Yeah for the The general like commercial populous And she just came up with a vibrator okay. A lot of people may be a little more comfortable being used a vibrator celebrities. Now are going to be like. Okay if somebody like gwyneth paltrow is gonna go get a big contract and saying i put you know the end of my face. Do you think maybe some other celebrities are going to start taking gigs like this. Can i ask how old paltrow is. I think she is have to do. A quick google She's around fishy almost fifty or something. That's why because my thinking is. I think we'll see more but it's not just you're right. She brings a conversation to the forefront. She's one of those people that when she talks about it for better or worse it makes news and that's her position of power and privilege. I get that. But so yes i do think people will feel more comfortable but i also think in general. It's just because the women and men getting bo talks and human now are of age where there's less of that Like they share more. You know she's four hundred forty young forty eight okay. So she's like but but people in their thirties get botox ziamon now and i think that there's less of a taboo of talking about it than there used to be. So she's she's no dummy. I fell off plugs into like us culture and stays with it even as she's getting older maybe because she has a daughter who's a teen i don't know but like she knows that it's not cool anymore to pretend or to fake like i just woke up like this like like people wanna hear the truth warts and all and they wanna know what really goes on so i think once again she's just plugging into the zeitgeist and away. So i don't know i'll be able to take out the variable as a reason. Is it gwyneth or is it just the general populace is feeling more comfortable. Yeah that's that's a good point as she was saying that like she is very warts and all she's like. I'm an open book. I think the share the more we learn from each other. I learned from other women. And like you know. That's how she feels more comfortable living her life. And that's all about like sharing sharing sharing. And i said well. Do you feel that you know it's like it's kind of women's duty to or is it. This is how i feel like. It is a medical procedure. It's not like a little. yeah you mentioned brooke. Yeah i really do feel that way. I was like it's medical. I don't owe you anything that i do the doctor. I don't care if you're high-profile or you know joe schmo. She was like no. I see that too. She's like i think it's cool. Women want to have a beauty secret But you know. I do think that there is a real benefit in sharing and I agree with that as well so anyway. The other thing that was a really great takeaway is that so many people were texting me like like friends of mine. Being like what c- main. I've never heard of the amid but now i'm interested so job. Well dummies yeah. Yeah or exa men or you know. So she's she definitely mission accomplished. It's spelled the next guy is by the way the humanist. Yeah we'll make an also anytime we talk about like a drug or whatever i like to link to the fda approved page that you can learn more because there are side effects to these things. Like don't just like gwyneth got it so it's as good as a jagan my vagina also. Don't go taking things in your vagina you know but yes she she brings up these conversations so that like you do start doing the research and you do start thinking again. She's kind of kind of like a little bit of a genius like that. So i am definitely. I was really fascinated by my my short conversation with her. I hope we can have a longer one with her on fat mascara at some point so anyway yes oh there's so many things i want to a lot of questions. I've got a lot of questions you start the campaign online. Hashtag bring gp to fm gps. She won't understand that okay. Well i'm glad to hear the background story. Because i really love that and i'm good on you to get her talking about things and i guess yeah everyone. I am psyched about the sponsor. Tommy john i have to tell you. It came up the perfect time. Because i am doing our spring kind of change over with all the clothes i have juror. I keep all my pajamas. And i am changing over all the heavy flannel stuff. All just kind of like the wind trees snowy stuff. And i'm getting ready for my light readable springy pretty tommy john. Pg's and i am psyched to tell you about right. Timing is so great when you start the morning tommy john lounge where you are so much more comfortable. Everything else just feels easy breezy. That's why tommy. John just doesn't have customers. They have fanatics. They have lifers so this spring. I want you to start lounging like a pro and tommy john. Here's what's great about tommy. John louder pajamas are guaranteed to fit perfectly. They have very comfy nonfeeling micro modell fabric. I become a believer in this fabric. That means there's no lint balls are fuzz luxuriance soft. It's got that try. Blend fabric with four way stretch so it just fits you a dream. It's that same level of comfort innovation that goes into whom it taught me makes including bras with non slip straps as twice the adjustability competing brands and softest second-skin fabric for the perfect fit. Once you get into a pair of tommy john. Pj's you are not going to want to go back. So when you go to tommy. John returns and exchanges are free and right. Now you're going to get twenty percent off sitewide at tommy john dot com slash fatness gary. Yes it's twenty percent of site-wide. Ps the women's lounge tankan little shorts shorts earth incredible for spring and summer. Get twenty percents off. The tommy john dot com slash skara again. Tommy john dot com slash fatness garrett. See the site for all the details. Okay everyone this next segment is brought to you by crabtree and evelyn. One of the sponsors that helps make it possible for us to bring you the podcast every week. We want to welcome you to our virtual garden party. Yes a garden party. And i have to tell you i like this is just the thing right now. Everyone needs a little something to help. Welcome spraying soothing voice. I feel like i'm in the garden with you is a little butterfly. Like just did you. Did you say. I don't know if butterflies make sounds but you hear that birdsong. I felt i felt a little kind of like the wind kind of fluttering that just of flat through. I really want to be here right now. We're we're celebrating though we really are not just the arrival of spring but the launch of crabtree and evelyn trading glow face moisturizer. Honestly i picture myself in in this garden right now with just like the son you know when you close your eyes and just the warmth of the sun on your face. How much do you need that right now. I can feel it. It's a that vitamin d high. Okay of course the sunscreen. But listen i just want you to close your eyes picture. The garden again just field a little bit here. The little bees buzzing about and you can just picture the roses blooming beginning to bloom around you and on that note of roses. Isn't it funny. How the roses are every. You may be a little garden cat walking by just now. That's my we let her around safely safely around the garden going back inside soon okay. Let's talk about those roses. They are around us in beauty. They're everywhere they're in moisturizers there in fragrance there in lip balm there in hydrating mist. But we never really talk about what the roses do. You may just kind of take for granted that they're in products but are they just sort of an ornament or they really packing some heavy duty ingredients i. It's it's so true. Let we really want to talk about what roses actually do here on this segment. Because i kind of feel like we just get carried away in the romance. Don't we i was. I was enjoying the romantic picture. I'm not sure that we all just painted for everybody and then here comes. Jen was sucking scored. I'd like assembly here. Just like coming down you know but yeah jedi with us. Okay have a seat on that little like mushrooms stole over there and let me tell you that roses aren't just like some young jostle servant. It's it's true though. Because i think we get caught away with like they're so beautiful. They sound good in a product a lot of marketers brands sort of put them in because like want rose. There could be nothing bad about it but actually rose has a lot of benefit. So i i've i've known ashley sousa for while she's crabtree evelyn's chief brand officer she has this great way of just like taking all the sides she gets from the fabulous to formulate over crabtree and evelyn and just breaking it down. Like here's what you're going to get so rose water it's that ingredient that you've heard about you. See it in products in crabtree evelyn's product specifically. I'm gonna tell you what it does. Okay rose. water reduces inflammation. How much have we been talking about. Inflammation here on the show. It's just the cause of a lot of skin issues that you probably haven't rose. Extract contains more than a hundred different compounds that have some antiseptic properties reduce inflammation and they can suppress the growth of certain types of bacteria. It's all a bit of a toner and it could prevent premature aging when applied topically You it helps reduce dullness when you premature aging it's that sort of like lack of glow like you can't point to the one specific thing you're just like i look. I don't know like. I just made it through a winter from hell kind of look. I don't know what you're talking about. You know you guys have no idea what. I'm talking about right now and also antioxidants. Of course these are the the molecules that protect ourselves from oxidative stress. And that's also something we've talked about here on the show so rather than looking for a specific antioxidant like a particular vitamin rosewater. In general it's full of antioxidants that help make your skin youthful and healthy. Of course there's also vitamins and minerals and it's sort of soothes irritation. This goes back to the inflammation. That i was talking about. If you were struggling with rosacea eczema eight topic dermatologist. Which is that leg rash of unknown origin or just like their redness that you get maybe it was from like a dry winter heat or new laundry detergent that you tried whatever it is that your your face is just sort of flaring up rose. It's just sort of comforts calms the skin. And i think that's why it's such an universally appealing agreement Because it can. You can't really do any wrong. You're not you know what i mean. It's just like a bomb if you will exactly fit well with my garden analogy though. I love that. I love that. That is exactly why people while the gardeners have and that's why so many brands love rose. Why we always see it popping up. And it's absolutely why i i'm not surprised crabtree and evelyn uses a evelyn. Rose collection. listened to the podcast. A lot you'll know that. I'm a huge fan of the specific collection in their line. It plays a role in their new hydrating. Glow face moisturizer. And let me tell you about what you can expect from this new moisturizer going to plump your scan it with moisture immediately and after this long dull very honestly quite stressful winter. I think for all of us. That is exactly klein of benefit that we need just like a few drops at boom back to life give you that little kick energy a little kick of just like off there. She is or there he is there we are. We are back busy. Yes yeah and it's going to help attain worst reser all day. I'm very excited about this stat. Ninety six percent of people who tried it felt. Their skin was immediately moisturised. It gives her skin glow. And that's just me being obsessed with glow after two weeks of use. Eighty seven percent of people who tried. It said the same thing okay. So it's in the eighty-seven and then it also reduces the appearance of redness and that over time it's going to soften and smooth skin texture. It's going to rejuvenate your skin so it doesn't look as dull and it's going to soften the appearance of fine lines and wrinkles if that is something that is important to you so this is a really cool products and again. It's just that rose story that just off in the morning and he put it on the spring just makes you feel like a little flower garden. It does it. It's sort of like putting. I was trying to think about so. I knew we were going to be talking about this and i was like. How will i describe the texture of this particular issue. Has this like pudding ounce to it and it syncs right in and i have been doing not just french face. What would you call like. When french face goes well below the deck latasha. I've been doing it like literally from boobs up like boobs tamar head just because it and sort of been putting some on my hands and then reaching behind my shoulder you know when you sort of pinscher own shoulder muscle to your clavicle area just like four like right after i get out of the shower This i took from a tip from somebody who was just on the show as a guest. Cohost like five minute window. When i still have the wet on my skin and just sort of giving my like shoulders and neck and then upward strokes with my neck. I don't know the scent just sort of wafts over you in our can. I call it. Can i call thing. Yes go ahead. It's already french a dirty french when i went upwards with like central smooths okay. All right i like it. I mean i we wanted you to picture okay. A sexy french. Actually for jessica's okay garden. Let's not let's not There's nothing journey but let's not scandalise self care. Yes thank you yeah. It's real over there. There's a cat walking around here on. You're sitting on a multi stole you. Don't want to get tuned in all right. You know what we're trying to. Do you know the reason we wanted to share it with you just to let you know what the experience is like. Because a lot of moisturizer. I feel like there's a clinical aspect to it or you're like okay cool. I've hit the ingredients that i need and yes. This does that. But i just love painting a picture of like self care with it. You know what i mean. Yeah and i also you know it's funny that you mentioned the clinical thing like i know that there is a. There's a moment for you know. Some people are a fan of like just kind of like one and died. Just keep it minimal. I don't like this. i don't like that. They're all taking things away from their routine or other skin care. Yeah this not me. I'm like i want a ritual. I want sensuality. Life is so hard like make it make it feel nice please. Yeah and if you do that with all the clinical benefits just talked about rose that's so fat mascara for me like okay. You're going to have a clinical benefits check with the percentage points of like like enjoy the frigging cost sakes nice things. Yeah nice things so crabtree and evelyn hydrating glow face moisturizer and when we partnered with crabtree and evelyn which we've been working with them for a while we both really love this brand the other thing we love. Is they give a gift back to you. They just don't want to tell you about the product and not leave you hanging there like should i get it. Should i not get fifteen percent off their entire site as you know. We have some other favorites from the evelyn rose collection but they had the bali collection beautiful product. So if you go to their website and use the code fat mascara fifteen. You're going to get fifteen percent off everything that you buy. So the website is crabtree hyphen. Evelyn dot com now. I'm not going to make you spell because we're in the garden and things are wonderful. Do the spelling for you. See our b. t. r. e. hyphen. Evelyn like that. Lovely woman evelyn. That's over there gardening. Do you see her haviland. Go go you protect that beautiful skin hat. Love your cat. Love your cat. Evelyn is either by crabtree hyphen. Evelyn dot com use the code fat mascara. Fifteen get fifteen percent off. And i just want to say one more time thank you so much to crabtree and evelyn. One of our favourite sponsors they sponsored this segment which was branded. And if you wanna learn more about the brand. The evelyn rose line. Evelyn rose hydrating glow face moisturizer that we just talked about. Go to crabtree. Evelyn dot com. And we're gonna put a link on the blog and maybe i'll even just like go out in the garden and do a little instagram story and show you myself care ritual. Would you like that. You actually have guard for me not for you. You should do. I do i do quite blooming yet but the rose aren't there yet but we'll get there. We'll get there. Thank you again to crabtree and evelyn and enjoyed your little garden party okay. We hope you enjoyed the garden party. Now it's time to raise a wand all my guests who are raised wanda's from well one of my favorite community members. Just tell you just told me. Can i say her name. Yes of course no you say i think we've also excited at it. I don't know why we've love this this fat mascara listener from the beginning. It's fizzy bonkers active member of our community. She has the best avatar. Is like this. Little cat is screaming it sometimes. I see Pop up. And i'm like oh yeah because like i feel like that right now the z. Bankers throwing it to you. Hi justin john. Fatma's of family. My name is busy bonkers. And i am just calling in to raise a one. Chew a tv show It's called my brilliant friend. I'm hbo. It's so good it's such a beauty treat On the first season there's a wedding and there's shoe store in all these great looks and then the second season There's just a million hairstyles and makeup and just a really good show. I'm not a big tv watcher. So if this could hold my attention. And i watched tuesday's of it It's really really good It's set in italy and There's these amazing mediterranean beach scenes and incredible mid-century apartment. And i just. I really loved the show It something engaging but light can get through these days and nights that were you know kind of eighteen Since last year so just wanted to raise the one to that Love the podcast and I hope everyone's doing really well. Okay i love. I love when somebody comes up with a non beauty one. Maybe we need to just relax with a new show. My brilliant friend. Lots of beauty inspiration based on the novels by oliphant a really good one. If you guys want to share your raise awad. You don't need a great avatar name or screen name. You could just feel like mary. From wherever and we'll so bob. Yeah it's cool may make up a name joined the fat mascara fam- on on our facebook page and then you'll be more likely to get on the show. Now that the private facebook page. I feel badly. We are like lonely like our regular facebook page. That one's fine too but it's the joining the fan. Wine is where like all like that's where like you'll open that door and be like oh party exactly and there's fizzy corner and if you wanna share on you guys know how to do it give me a call six four six four eight one eight one eight two or mail your voice memo do info. Fm mascara dot com. Are you using your razor one. Yeah i'm using it. I'm use. I use all day long. Do tell what is it. Okay i got it this week so it's not like i'm using it for years. It just came out this week or last week. Okay it is by this brand called by the way the name is so good giambi. That's the random jumping donors and say eighty thousand times giambi and the product is called warm as toast now. Giambi is a family brand. It's for liberals and adults in a cell at as a net which is what our little's like kids like babies. Oh little like little kids okay. i'm corner coroner. Okay giambi warm as toast. And it's a little chin right legal silverton little screw screw-in and very durable and it is a soul that maisonette just launched on maisonet and it's like a fancy store for like the online store for like really fancy baby clothes and toys but they also really beautiful products. But this guy's only ten dollars to get freaked out. When i started telling you about the fancy baby store but it does feel nice to buy something nice from the fancy store. That's not that expensive. I love doing stuff like that. So okay i just feel like i got away with something. Okay warmest toast. Soothing muscle rub. This is like it has. It's it's a good for like ten tired back. Sneeze joints and muscles it has organic ginger clove and colangelo oil kind of smells christmasy. Which is a little weird as the reproaching spring. A savvy like a said. I'm not exercising right now. But i put it over my neck and my back. I'm always at the computer. And i have that like rookie was tense neck. And just like just quickey back and quickey neck all the time because of the work from home situation but also i know you guys can't see it gonna show to gem and you can see it when you go online to go buy it. The chain has the most beautiful. She's like thumb believe gum bellina illustration if anyone. I'm just going to test my luckier of any one watched fairytale theater as a kid. I saw d emmy privately so we can go through all the episodes but all of the covers and illustrations in the sets. Looked like the cover of this of this tim. it's just very magical ago. I learned a lot during your as on. Because i've never heard a fairytale theater didn't know what liberals were i didn't know it mason. That was but i want all of it. Oh my god it's just fairy tale theatre which are the most brilliant set designs in boxes art work and it just the best. His is the foreign. Golly vibes. Because then i'm in It's more romantic. They actually took the artwork from like artists like gustav clammed in like beers lay. Alex shelley divall hosted. It was a really incredible series This i think. I might need to research the assange i'll send you the Essentially a pedia lincoln. You'll just get lost. Just got the staff. That sav looks great at ten dollars. Oh my god that's wonderful. Okay i it was daylight savings time here in the united states which is a dumb thing. We still apparently due like the savings. But i don't turn going rid of the savings anyway to say shame it's right around one. Spring equinoxes happens which to me triggers. Okay times at no joke. Let's spf back in action up it up. We gotta get to the fifty none of this thirty like even if i'm sitting in the window. Let's get something good well. My skin has been insanely dry. Still i don't know i. I know it's just absurd. So i have a new sunscreen. That is sort of like a moisturizer as well. It's grown alchemist. Natural hydrating sunscreen. It's in a nice little metal tube and it has the consistency of like. I always want to say like it's like a thick bomb the cream And it really does rub. You have to do a little bit of rubbing and if you have a darker skin tone. I would say just keep pushing it into your skin because it is a natural sunscreen. It's zinc oxide. So okay doesn't leave a cast as long as you rub it in a don't think this is going to be like your supergroup on scene or neutrogena where boop boop it's gone can do after up at end but the benefit is you're getting all that bush to there so much good moisturizers in it so i'm like rubbing it in like a thick and then i happen to have spf fifty. On my face. Which i love. I love that. It's both and i agree with you. I'm not ready for sunscreen season because my skin so dry. I'm just less and some of them have that lake. You know it works when your skins away leeann. It's sort of like has at silicone slip. That's what feels like no. This is like a rich winter moisturizer. That happens to have sunscreen. Oh my that's exactly what i need right. Now thank you while they get you. Some grown alchemists. okay is get your beauty sleep. i needed at daylight. Saving still kicking me. We hope you enjoyed the show. It's your reviews and feedback that help us make the podcast even better head over to itunes to rate and review us or e. Mail your thoughts to info at fat mascara dot com. We also want to answer your questions in here. Products you love to share one product view or to ask a question. Email us at info at fatten. Skara if you send it as a voice memo file we can even share voice on the podcast. You can also do that by leaving us. The voice message our phone number in the united states is six four six four eight one eight one eight two. Thanks so much for listening.
109 - The Chessboard Killer: Alexander Pichushkin
"The death of his childhood dog early chess victories against old drunk men in a park adjacent to a depressed government housing project a fascination with the Rostov ripper. Andre Chica Teela the abandonment by a father and the death of a loving grandfather and a childhood head injury from a swing. These would be the main ingredients that when mixed together would create Alexander euro per shoe, skin known to family and friends, Sasha known to the world as the chessboard killer aka the beats park maniac. He sits now in solitary confinement in a Russian prison as he hasn't his two thousand seven conviction on forty eight murders and three attempted murders. But Houston's trial created intense national debate and Russia regarding reinstating the death penalty. The last person to be executed in Russia was another Moscow serial killer Sergei glove can aka the Fisher, aka the boa convicted of raping and killing eleven young boys between nineteen eighty six and nineteen Ninety-two, and then give a single. Shot to the back of his head nineteen ninety six just like the United States. Russia has had an unfortunate amount of monsters dedicated to exterminating human beings during his trial shoe skin actually insisted he killed sixty three people, but authorities only had enough evidence to convict him of forty eight. He killed his first victim in nine hundred ninety. Two didn't get caught until two thousand six. Not only was he not remorseful. He was proud. He was disappointed that he wasn't convicted of killing more people than his idol. Chica Teo convicted of fifty two murders in nineteen Ninety-two his goal with sixty four one for every space on a chessboard. Why? Why did he want to kill anyone? Who did he kill? How did he kill them and how did he get away with it for so damn long. We look into all this in another dark, October true crime. Addition of time suck. Happy Monday time, suckers hail Nimrod only him today. He demands it. I'm Dan Collins, aka the prophet of Nimrod and you are listening to time. Suck welcome to the cult of the curious. Today's time suck is brought to you by Donald MC, Ronalds, Roanoke, reclose spider removal. Most meets acts have one thing in common. They don't like being covered from head to toe in super aggressive poisonous, spiders like to try and crawl underneath boats Riley's, and lay eggs on your eyeballs. That is why Donald MacDonald and his team of spider specialists have chosen to specialize in getting spiders out of your life, especially the Roanoke re clues. Did you know that one in three people probably have a spider somewhere on their body right now, especially if they're driving and can't reach it. That spider is most likely statistically to crawl inside their vagina or sneak inside their ear or nose holes and lay eggs in the brain. It might be true, which is why Donald MacDonald Roanoke, Rick Lewis spider removal exists. They will remove super poisonous excess. Optionally, hard to kill very aggressive spiders from not only your eyeballs ear holes and vaginas where they are most likely to try and crawl inside and legs, but also from the back of your head where they may be calling around right now with their creepy little spider lakes, like you know, going in your hair and stuff or maybe on the middle. You're back where you just, you can't reach him very easily or or in your crack where you don't want to reach them very easily. It happens all the time. So often probably now, so go to Donald MacDonald. Roanoke recluse. By removal dot dammit. I really think there's probably a spider on you right now and get twenty percents off me being an asshole. Who won't shut the fuck up about spiders? What just happened. Sorry about that. Sorry about that. Not really. Okay. Too much fun for me recording in the suck dungeon this fine fall day with Reverend Dr. Joe motherfucking paisley Queen of the suck. Lindsey comments coming in soon. Just it's flatter stand up shows into coma and alive time suck into come on Sunday man. Hope had fun. I had fun. I bet Joe pays had fun. He was there probably if he made his flight. I recorded this last Thursday by the way. That's why I'm saying a lot of maybe probably and also thoughts go out to everyone in Florida being impacted by hurricane. Michael. I know we have a lot of Florida meet sacks in the panhandle. I hope you're all. Okay. I hope that the hurricane is not as bad as it was looking when I sat down to record this episode and again, thanks to all the Tacoma time suckers I think I think we had fun three shows in Columbus, Ohio, Friday, and Saturday, November second, third Friday at seven. Forty five pm. One show only on Friday to on Saturday, come on, Ohio. It's just do. It tells club up. Helium comedy club in Buffalo, New York, November eighth to the eleventh back to Grand Rapids, Michigan. One of the clubs I've been hitting the longest shows doctor grins, November sixteen, and seventeen, including my last live cast of two thousand eighteen on the seventeenth. And that'll be the last Matamoros narcos satanists lifetime suck more two thousand eighteen dates. Dan Komen dot TV. Saint Louis in Spokane, show's coming up in December in November or early December, going to announce a big chunk of two thousand nineteen dates and the the tour name in Gaza. I'm very excited about all excited about how the schedules come together links to take it in the descriptions. Thanks for thanks as always for other reviews were ever you listen to the suck. It really helps spread the suck, and thanks for ordering those limited editions of the vinyl. Pressing of molasses album, maybe on the problem through romance records came out so well, Lincoln the episode description, the lizard, gold customs. One off wonder bundles. They've been sold out for weeks copy still left at the Tri colors positively blue splatters and the black. Splatters in the romance record store. Also, finally got those coffee tumblers LUSA FINA sleepwear sets in the store. Part of that fall line rescue few weeks ago. Now we now it's complete sixteen ounce tumblers, a black spaces or tumbler stainless steel time. Suck tumbler. Spacer number only for spacer is of course the suck lives on caffeine. You know that you know fast. I talk these bad ass danger brain suck juice dispensers. Look magical, check them out in the store made of one hundred and seventeen percent mono Tomic goals. He can shape shift while you drink double double wall, stainless steel construction, screw on lid. With slide lock, drink opening hand wash only you gotta to be careful with Amano, Tom gold, and then the loose Athena sleepwear set sexy comfy short and tank combo. Ladies wear finally, hell is to fana- more and more ladies joining the suck got to give them what they're asking for. It's a camisole top sixty five. Percent polyester, thirty, five percent discos four hundred and ten percent kid belly button. So soft fit somewhere between true to size, maybe slightly big. It's loose-fitting, still sexy, Queen of the suck Lindsay's been wearing it at home and it looks great. It comes with a pair of matching shorts that are one hundred percent cotton spot in prewashed and also made of Kelly kitten. Belly buttons of course. And of course imported, we're not gonna don't be too said, we're not using domestic cats and it still does a set by based on the size of the shorts. Again, check them out. Look at them times podcast dot com. In the store there in the shop vice store also able to link to that via the time suck up. Thank you now head to Russia, where they don't have fun, things like that. They might now where they didn't used to have fun, things like that. Let's dip into the suck that has the the ghost of chicken -til rolling around in his limp grave film threatened. It's time for Alexander Eurovision Pushkin the chessboard killer. Now before we dig into the life of the chessboard killer, let's I dig into the possible relationship between a head wounds and violence. Is there really a link? Yes. Is the short answer that seems to be while we don't have the exact date. We do know that when Alexander was a little kid, he fell off a swing set, suffered a head wound of unknown severity. Just like what we're we're gonna find out. Richard Ramirez also had that kind of in same injury, man, swing sets, man, less swings. Let's killers me up was used can never taken to a doctor, but he did suffer blurred vision and brief motor control impairments. Got his bell rung. Sounds like a concussion for sure. But after the accident family friends and neighbors, you know, he was digging the hospital, they would see dramatic changes in his behavior. The previously shy kid was now quick to grow angry. He soon became very prone to violence, which was very unlike him was his head wound, at least partly to blame for the person. He would become probably recent research out of Vanderbilt University released in December of two thousand seventeen determined that brain lesions increase the risk of a person committed a crime. The findings were published in the proceedings of the National Academy of sciences. Neuroscientist began looking into the link between brain injuries and violent acts way back with the case of Charles Whitman who's the Texas tower sniper nineteen, Ninety-six the former marine sniper took a right. Eiffel climbed an observation tower on the campus of the university of Texas where he shot eleven passer-by below dead until he was subdued by police. He killed sixteen that day. Total include his wife and mother after his death and autopsy revealed a brain tumor. But did it contribute or even lead to the murders free? There's a very good chance of did other serial killers have suffered brain injuries, either from a fall accident or physical abuse, including Ed Kemper, Jerry Brutus, Gary hynick, some that we've sucked already such as John Wayne gay, see and gain, and their injuries probably did contributed their crimes research by Ryan Darby MD assistant professor of neurology at Vanderbilt University Medical Center, showing compelling evidence that lesions in one particular brain network can increase the risk of criminal behavior was technically known as acquired sociopathic. It's the first brain mapping study linking legions to a higher propensity of criminal acts Elision being abnormal brain tissue, which can occur as the result of trauma tumor or stroke. What the study found is that lesions occurring in a number of. Different places such as the frontal lobe can contribute to the likelihood of a person committing a crime. The researchers attribute fourteen percent violent crime to being committed with someone with a frontal lobe injury. And while this was the first brain mapping study to link head trauma and violence is not the first overall studied the linked to to not even close. This study's confirms data Lincoln head injuries and violence discovered in many previous studies such as the two thousand fourteen study found that twenty percent of two hundred and forty nine mass murder cases investigated by the researchers were committed by someone with a head injury in another two thousand eleven study researchers followed a group of ninth graders from four schools in Flint, Michigan into young adulthood. They conducted annual interviews over eight years and years. Five and six participants were asked if they'd ever sustained a head injury. Those who said yes, about twenty three percent reported, you know a statistically significant amount of more violent behavior in your eight of the study. Another study from nineteen eighty six. At fifteen death row inmates found that all of them had experienced a traumatic head injury and childhood. A nineteen Ninety-six report looked at two hundred and seventy nine Vietnam war veterans who suffered penetrating brain injuries and found that those with damage to a particular part of the frontal cortex, definitely demonstrated more aggression and the research goes on and on and on. There's the whole NFL controversy around this head injuries and how they can change people and change their behavior of the whole Aaron Hernandez case. You know, the guy, the former tight end for the patriots be came a murderer. There's actually a criminal rights group now called head for the truth dot org that is actually fighting to have a significant previous head injury, be a legal reason for a significant reduction in prison sensing for violent crimes. Like like if you normally get twenty five years for premeditated murder head for the truth dot org wants you to be legally allowed to be sent to prison for no more than twenty percent of your original sense. You know, if you've ever had a head injury series enough to lose consciousness. So you only get like five years instead of twenty five and they'd be. Home arrests, like a home arrested instead of jail or prison where private doctors could monitor your brain and treatments. And another clause would prevent you from ever being charged with multiple instances of the same type of crime if this all went through. So like if you killed ten people, you'd only be charged for one of the murders and never get more than five years of home arrest for that murder. And in some cases, just six months probations is it's controversial, but I get the logic. If you have a head injury, you know, it's not your fault. If you kill people and you shouldn't get in trouble if you'd like to donate to head for the truth dot org. I want you to turn out his podcast and I want you to reevaluate your fucking life. I want you to think about all your life choices lead up to you. Think doubt even remotely be good idea. Now, it's not sense. There's not a group fighting to let people get away with murder because he had a concussion when they were kid, but now the concussion could have led them to possibly be going murder back to reality back to reality just for a second. I imagine what in the fuck is he advocating? So how? How could these injuries contribute divinely behavioral? There's. There are several coexisting theories, the vulnerable amid Dula located within the interior temporal lobe pairs emotions with thoughts damage to the make, can lead to proper poor. Excuse me, lead to poor impulse control, violent behavior. I'm still thinking about the head for the truth dot org damage to the frontal lobe, impairs one's ability to regulate limbic input. The Olympic system supports a variety of functions, including emotion, behavior, motivation, long term, memory, emotional life is largely housed Olympic system. Someone, someone frontal lobe damage often reacts impulsively, even violently damaged. His specific neurotransmitter systems also causes impulse problems in traumatic brain injury. Patients when the locus surreal, Serena's in the four rain is injured, it can lead to elevated in narrow, got these sorts Nora peanut. Fuck in what I don't even know. I don't know. It's an r. e. p. I e. p. h. r. i. any forgotten. Look the Bruns Asian for that one because it didn't look so complicated. When I I glanced at it, the referee, whatever it is, increased levels of that shit have been correlated with aggressiveness and impose who decides what these fucking words are. By the way who is on the word committee, it's like, you know what? Let's get seventy five fucking consonants in this thing when not, no one else is not taken. It's not. It's not taking. We can say it's no refer- ever ever being just fucking make people say that that'd be fun. Basically, our brains are very, very important, very, very complex and getting them banged around causes us to, you know, work is good. No more. Our brains are powerful. Again, computers, your regular. We see think feeling so much more. So it makes sense than if you damage it, it's not going to perform as well as it did before damage. And it's like, I feel like dropping a phone. You drop it enough times. Maybe it's not going to, you know, maybe the buttons are going to push his easy. Was kinda scary, right? Like one thing about this one bed blow to your thought melon. And suddenly you cannot be Uni more or not a, you used to be like, you hurt your arm. You might, you might lose your arm, but you're still you. You still have your same personality identity for the most, but you know, hurt your spine. You might lose the use of your legs, but you know, it's still you inside, but you hurt your head. You might just not not not be union Morgan fucking wipe your memories, wipe your personality. I mean, isn't that what your identity is? You know, you may never be able to regulate emotions aggression the same way ever again. One of the things your brain does when is working correctly is remind you not to act on every impulse. You feel including violent impulses. Thank God for that. I've been so much trouble of my brain took an impulse control vacation ever. Listen, anybody stand up. You know that I think about it a lot of dark, shut a lot of aggressive stuff like murdering strangers for minor etiquette and fractions now, moments of anger or especially like anger combined with a lack of proper sleep. Maybe a little, maybe a little low blood sugar. I get posthumously mad at people for doing things. I think that makes makes them Astle like loudly talking on a speakerphone, public place restaurant, you know, or not saying, excuse me when they bump into me or chewing with their mouth, open any place for any reason when I think about killing him, I know not really gonna kill him fantasy. But what if the part of my brain is like, hey, this is the fantasy now be good thing to do. You could go to prison for a long time. What does that brain was like? We're out. We're not say, good luck. You look in the future will for some people. That's exactly what happens. We love to say stuff like, I don't give a fuck or I'm fresh out of flex to give. But some people truly don't have to give their neurologically incapable of giving a fuck and you combine that brain with the right motive and opportunity, right to environment raised at brain in the wrong home or place. We got a monster on your hands, real-life monster. Before we move forward, the events lead up to the monster. Oh, talking about today, Alexander Pushkin and his head injury. Let's take a quick look at some other killers who whose lives may have been tragically altered by an accident or some abuse. I mentioned Richard Ramirez member. Remember when we talked about how age to the sucks subject for Miras sustained a significant injury to his head when address fell on top them causing a laceration which required thirty stitches. And then at age five knocked out by swing in the park and that head injury caused him to suffer epileptic seizures, which remain until he was a teenager at age six and other suck subject John Wayne Gezi that killer clown was beaten, unconscious by his father. Willna broomstick at age. Eleven struck in the head with a swing, fuck and swings, man, which all not although not. Sixteen resulted in him suffering blackouts too many swings swings in nineteen sixty future suck subject. I'm sure six year old. David Berkowitz ran into the roadsides child at home struck by car, suffered unspecified head injuries. Few months later, ran into wall again, suffered head injuries at age. Eight hit on the head with the pipe, received a four inch gash day, just seven years. Old future sucks subject. I'm sure heavily requested. Albert fish fell from cherry tree caused severe head trauma Khadim suffer from dizzy spells and severe headaches, the rest of his life. Another previous suck subject at geen claimed that his violent alcoholic father would beat him about the head so hard. His ears would ring and so many others, you know, robber. Joe lawn classified ad rapist suffered serious head injuries, early years at the age of five, knocked unconscious when he fell from swing, fuck and swings. Eight, six. He lost several teeth suffered a concussion when he crashed his bicycle headfirst into a parked car. Hey, just seven. I'm not making this fell off a pony, the left him with a concussion and dizzy spells Najah for weeks ponies. Finally, the pony and serial killer connection revealed. That's, you know, that's probably the call opponents. The devils little murderers, small in stature, large, and ego. The highway soccer Henry Lucas claims to receive numerous head injuries between the ages of five and ten. Most significant was when he was seven as mom him across the back of his head using a two by four Bill block, would that put him in a coma for three days caused significant damage to the prefrontal lobe of his brain? I'm guessing it also caused him to listen carefully. Every time his mother told him to do something for the rest of his life. Man has recently released biography, confession of serial killer former suck. Dennis Btk Rader stated that as an infant, his mother accidentally dropped him on the head and he stopped breathing and turn blue. Finally, Gary green river killer Ridgway had his head beaten repeatedly by his mother while grownup every time she aggressively cleaned his wane after wetting the bed, clean Wayne callback been too long since will Ridgway snuck into with suck to do some wings growth in clean. Okay. Other than Gary Ridgway that list was. Real and there were ton of names I left off because he was getting repetitive men, swing stuff, all the swing stuff. Now, let's find out where Alexander chessboard killer Houston's head injury helped lead him today in our time, suck timeline. Wrap on those boots soldier where Martin down a time, summertime lie. Nine hundred sixty three eleven year old. Natasha, Pushkin future mother of the chessboard killer moves into a two room apartment on the fifth floor of new drab soul crushing communist housing project in the cone Kobo district of Moscow around half an hour from downtown. The building she moved into is one of many virtually identical five story buildings known as Muscovites as the cruise shelf k. named after the premier Nikita Khrushchev. They're the basically like the Soviet Union's first, large-scale, public housing projects. They put them all over Russia, these basic buildings, dark damp charmless. I mean, they're really like when you look at pictures up and you're like that that would suck live there. Overflowing with ten is very crowd within, you know, just whose internal levels of hope and happiness probably matched the environment exist in the neighborhood was referred to by Moscow residents as zip Amita or asshole of the world true story which but it's but it's not the asshole. The world as many as you know, many of, you know, Roswell New Mexico. Is the world's butthole. We've proven that on the socks previously. Pollution lived in some communist projects. Yeah, dump people be born there. They live out their whole lives, working raising a family that the die. They're often their lives. You know, we'll be live without ever leaving their small little neighborhood. The resins may not have greed have agreed, but for all intents and purposes, you know it was a defacto prison, but nearby there was the refuge of beat survey ski park, aka beats apart Alexander's future. Killing grounds is the three thousand acre park more of like a wildlife refuge in parks, enormous for the second comparison, New York central park covers eight hundred and forty three acres. This is three thousand acres and the beats park just a six minute walk a little short walk from the tasha department. So there is that as it was custom for families in communist Russia. The time when tasha grew up and started her own family in the mid seventies her parents let her stay in the apartment and they just moved into a smaller unit, a one room apartment nearby April ninth nineteen seventy-four. Alexander Pushkin his. Form as mother and tasha, would affectionately call him Sasha before Alexander reaches first birthday nineteen. Seventy five is father whose name neither Alexander or Natasha, ever revealed to the press abandoned. His son probably realized this little. This little gremlins gets motive in his eyes. He's like dad out. Several years later, Natasha met another unnamed man who also stuck around just long enough to get pregnant with Caccia Alexander's half sister born in one thousand nine two. And then for nearly the next two decades, Natasha spend most of the time tirelessly working to provide for her children. Luckily foreign tasha. She didn't have the razor kids completely alone since her parents did remain close by even with only the three of them just you know, just living together. They're just with the three them. This place conditions were already cramped in this tiny apartment. It's two bedrooms and one of the bedrooms doubled as living room. So really one bedroom feels like some communist nonsense. It's a two bedroom apartments. One bedroom also kitchen then leaving the room and bathroom. Alexander slept on the couch in the bedroom, living room years later when he still had moved out and Caccia started a family of Rome, Natasha slept alone on a Queen size bed ten feet from her son. Well, Caccia shared the master bedroom with her husband also named Alexander and their son Sergei communism. Sounds fun. If you want to listen to a real nightmare of a Soviet shot at listened to chicken -til can hear about the living hell that were large parts of Ukraine. Under Stalin. Alexander grew up poor, but he didn't grow up watching people, literally starve to death. Poor neighbors would remember the young Alexander Pushkin is a shy, but good natured child. He seemed no different than the other children in the area. Nothing unusual didn't stand out, played in the park with the kids as a young boy. He liked to collect a commemorative pins. Which apparently was a common hobby for children growing up in the Soviet Union, which which reads is terribly sad for me. What did you do as a kid? Trade baseball cards, race, BMX bikes plane, intendo, clicked Russia in the commemorative pins. Okay. What what? What kind of favorite pin was nine thousand nine hundred Moscow Olympic weightlifting, sports pin. I have ever recoup. Ian. A convic- is Molin. Yovich is Mona live. Flyweights auction gold medalist. A hard Salton Saburov each Rachmaninov sue Buddha, everywhere. Russian gold medalist. Lille need our town goal or auction heavyweights Mary lose. I had three base pins and then mother trade three pins for weeks apply bread and the know how to sleep with projects to adviser to pay rent for months. I had good childhood. Then one day Alexander petitions shot became not so good. He suffered that head injury. We talked about earlier. He was not a big pizza park. Plano swing play non fucking the, you know that that's super serial killer factory. The notice a swing when he fell backwards off it, which is always my fear is a kid fell off the back of a swing. And then while Faucheux sat confused on the ground swing, swung back, hit him directly to forehead, hard enough to really ring his bell again. So we got front and back of the head left him wobbled disorientated rock that brain around and his holster. I had a bad accident when I was a kid. I think I've talked about this before. I was on a rope like a tire swing. When the rope broke, swears by myself, swinging back and forth, and then hit my head on on rock. And it knocked me the fuck out, like knocked me, unconscious. I don't even know what part of my head I hit. I guess maybe back of the head to know Joe welcome. Literally seen double wicked headache, nausea, seriously orientated. I'll never forget that. Like just crazy. Walked back to my mom's house because it was. Parker's goes just as some dudes like in house that rope swing down the road puck Reagan's. Yeah, classic and cussin' must have been around ten came on crying my mom. My mom told me to go lie down taking that was gonna, keep whining about it. I thought for years that was actually the worst advice you could give someone who just just been knocked out, you know, go lie down and take a nap. Maybe we'll wake up maybe not tease my mom for years. Turns out taking an app actually is okay. African cousin, if your lucid, if you're up talking, you know you're conscious you're able to walk. It actually can help your brain recuperate. So maybe my nap kept me from turning into a murderer, just loving with the dark in violent sense of humor and said, you know, maybe my head injury is what created the dude who talks about this kinda shit all the time to tease you about spiders instead of being a murderer anyway, without money for proper medical consultation. Alexander precise can never take a new doctor when he can walk. He was told he was fine except he was not fine. He's his egg scrambled into a, I want to hurt and murder omelette the pre. Shy child became quick to anger often scaring his schoolmates and friends in the park with his newly violent nature doing a lot of creepy staff. Now, years later, after he was captured, medical experts would site is incident with the swing as a key moment in his metamorphosis into a monster. They think that the swing incident damaged the frontal cortex in this still developing brain pollution. The part of the brain that contains neurons interact with dopamine. Essentially, it's the pleasure giving part of the brain also controls how a person deals with reward happiness. Motivation of more injuries seem to affect his performance in school as well. Following his accident Alexander position beginning to get bullied verbally and physically at school. His classmates ridiculed him for being slow. They would often bluntly call him retarded. Natasha notice that her son was struggling not only with school, but also social aspects of childhood attempted to teach him herself to build his confidence. But it did make a difference event. You have to try to help him herself. She opted to remove him from school and enrolled him in a school for children with learning difficulties. Doctors could not diagnose. What does ability he had and he became increasingly withdrawn and troubled and then Alexander's grandfather saw how much of a struggle school was formed, what it was doing to his self esteem and good grandpa asked, Natasha, if Alexander could live with him, take him under his wing, and then his grandfather encouraged shoe skin to look for film and outside of school. Each day after school, the two would head to beat spark and one particular corner of the park men would gather to drink vodka, talk and play chess and Alexander loved hanging out with his Papa. And these old vodka-drinking chess players more than he liked hanging out in school started starting to get pretty good at chess. By the time he's a teenager. Pushkin was whoop and his Grandpa's drinking buddies at the table, which was great for self steam for the first time for can felt the respect of others. He found a place to thrive and that sadly would be the happiest time of his life. And then just a few years out for moving in with Papa, his grandfather unexpectedly died and young Alexander's life fell apart. Sorry, I don't have exact dates for those moments and young Alexander's life. Just as surprisingly very, very little written about his early life in books or interviews or anything as grant after his grandfather's death. He moved back in with his mother, the tasha into that very crowded to him apartment. And he brought with him his grandfather's dog who he loved dearly. The dog has never named in anything. Either even interviews, he'll just, you know this dog, but he loved it. It was his last connection to his grandfather and to the happy days of beaten Dunkeld chess in the park. And Alexander was also beginning to drink heavily himself as a teenager for many Russian men drinking vodka together as a way of bonding. But for chicken, he just he just drank alone and he also got way into pornography. Probably not a good combo for teen drinking alone, watching porn, and then Alexander's beloved dog dies for unknown reasons. Based on what will hear him say about at the end of the episode? I, I don't think it was natural causes. And then it seems like this was the last shred of or the last shred of his compassion died with this dog because now he starts bringing video Cam. Within two beats apart starts recording himself. Scaring young kids, not a good sign a little bit of a red flag. He loved to watch his little home movies later, you know, take him particular pleasure in real reliving. They're frightened expressions. One time. I guess he dangled a little kid out of a several story high window by his ankles as the kids squirmed and screamed Shusha to great delight and explaining to him that his life was entirely in Alexander hands. He reportedly said, you load in my politics. Now I'm going to drop you from window. A new will fall fifteen meters studio, death. Sure. That was fun for that kid. Right? Must have been strange to hear about Alexander's arrest years. Later thing about how close he came to die in that day. That's when you know your kid is a strong candidate to become a future serial killer when their hobbies are drinking alone, watching a lot of porn and recorded themselves scaring kids at the park and dangling kids out of windows that does not go on to become a doctor, just even one out of one hundred times or a lawyer or any sort of respected member of the community best. Case, I feel like that kid grows up to work as a butcher or maybe get a job at an animal shelter. Putting pets down. Now let's jump to July twenty seventh nineteen Ninety-two actual dates. Yup, finally got a date now in the time line. Again, we will have them pretty regularly like with the rest of the time I now childhood not properly documented, but a lot of his crimes were like his first murder, Alexander's eighteen years old, attending a vocational school to learn a trade when he asked the school friend Mikhail. Oh, the Chuck to accompany him on a quote, killing expedition, you know, as high school buddies do. Man, you ought to go fishing, author school, no, ooh, to come over to house drink and watch porn until my mom comes home. No, no. How about we go kill someone, then. It's like a classic episode of leave it to beaver. Just a classic coming of age story, the old murderer and a stranger with your buddy. Just Jay. Wally k. just let me just kill someone. You don't have to come along. Just don't tell are you crazy what if mom finds out, then we'll just kill her to Walli. I believe I like it, but I'm no rat. Few days prior Alexander tested the waters with ODA Chuck and told him that he intended to kill somebody or Chuck thought he was joking. I, I would imagine you would when Alexander believed that ODA Chuck was not going to turn him in and was going to stop him. He invited to tag along as Alexander looked for a victim. Patricia was pumped. I guess you know, you talk about it later. You know thought he found a kindred spirits to kill him buddy. Would you be my killing body? Thank you. All your swell owner. Chuck again assumes that Alexander's yoga headed out with them. And then as the two young men walking along the the blimps Moscow streets, Houston starts point now, just possibly like maybe I got any. People he's identifying as being weak or vulnerable. Chuck realizes, this is not a game. He gets nervous. He makes up an excuse for heading home and Pushkin firmly insisted he stay abused position would reveal this later in courthouse court testimony. And when Alexander realizes to Chuck is not a kindred spirit. He decided that he is the week one and he flies into rage against his new friend and young Mikhail. Oh, the Chuck is the first person murdered by the chessboard killer. At his trial, Alexander would speak of his first kill saying these photos mode. It's like I love is unforgivable exactly how he murdered. Alexander not revealed an anything I found just that says his body was found battered by the police odds are he probably followed the same modus operandi. He would use over and over and later killings where he would surprise victims with a hard blow with a blunt object to the back of their head. And then sometimes you know, follow that was worth repeated blows artichokes body was found a few hours later. Other classmates told the police being with Alexander that day, all signs point to Alex. Zander being guilty to police interview Alexander Pushkin, but he denies everything. And then with no hard evidence and the crazy amount of red tape, I guess, existed in the Soviet Russian bureaucracy. They just let him go as the body of Mikhail odor. Chuck is buried days later. The investigation has dropped and Alexander Pushkin remains a Freeman. This reminds me Chicoti low. Remember that I murder of his. It was the young girl. He lured into his murder cabinet nineteen seventy eight, nine year old. Lena Zach, Nova stabbed into filed the police find her body today's later, and then find her belongings in Chica Tila shack. They find blood drops on the ground near the front door of shack, but his wife gives them a bullshit alibi and they just like, okay, good now, sorting football bother you. Now, the arrest, some other dude based on the fact he had no alibi and he had a primer to conviction and they just kill him instead right craziness. And then she could tell it would kill over fifty more people similar story with Zander. The police had a chance to stop him right away right after that. I kill, but lazy detective work. Just let's just continue. Just like almost getting caught that first time kept Chito from killing again for years. The same seems to be true for pollution by his own admission. He would not kill again for nine years. Alexander Pushkin left is vocational school. Shortly after this got a job is shell stagger in a nearby grocery store that he would keep for the rest of his free life. And then for years, he just let a repetitive depressing existence is he'd go to work the market in the morning, come home to the little apartment. You know, take the train to work, come back like little subway train and then just live in this little apartment. He would share with his mother and sister, and then mother and sister and brother-in-law and the nephew for the rest of his free life all cramped in there. And he'd spend the night drinking watching tons of porn. Hopefully not in front of his mom and sister that would that would add another demented twist to the story. Just Alexander what they tell you about porn. I'm groman mother. I watched what the ones watch much. You also get wrong Conjunto point in my house, my life. Mother the my life, but was your room Alexander? Can you not your bathroom? Like respectable, Russian boy, joke. Watchos joke, mother. I grow them on please. Mattel, I ready for sleep now. All nine thousand nine hundred Zander obsessed with the trial of Andrei Chica -til the butcher Rostov perhaps the details of that trial inspired that first murder but use can fascinated by Teo starts to fantasize about becoming a infamous serial killer, but Houston learns from Katina that it is possible for sewer killer. If they're careful enough to remain free and active for many years and possibly decades remembered. She was active for just under twenty. Two years for pollution can undertake Aotearoa becomes an inspiration becomes determined to them to get more kills than the Rostov river. He finds his passion. Alexander position believed that it'd be easy to kill more than she could deal because in his mind, he was a genius as demonstrated by his early success with chess, and so can devise devices a killing plan, a simple but clever enough to leave no trace or sign that points back to him. He finds a place the perfect place to commit his heinous crimes and dispose of the bodies. How crazy is I can't think of ever coming across a similar goal orientated, serial killer like this. Like I feel like. Most of the ones who sucked so far killed on some six sexual compulsion like Dahmer, Casey, Ramirez, gold, say, killer toy box, killer Ridgway Bundy more. You know, Ed geene you know, the fiend of Plainfield was an utter maniac wanted to make skin suit. Why dissolved killer seemed to kill mainly to top police about his kills after he'd committed them seemed to relish the power for Alexander. It's like he was playing a video game and he just wanted the high score or like he was some kind of extreme athlete in one of the world record a clearly. He's a fucking sociopath. You don't. You don't put a plan like that in place. If there is even a tiny shred of empathy living inside you on may seventeenth two thousand one nearly nine years after that, I kill Alexander Pushkin ready to put his plan emotion. He's been plotting for nearly a decade. He returned to the familiar corner of pizza park, or it's grandfather had brought him along to play chess where old men continued to drink vodka and play and hang out and talk and. One of these men is you gonna be Pronin like shoe skin. Pronin was drunk park drunk living in the outskirts of society, invite him to walk through the park with him. Alexander told him it was the anniversary of his beloved dogs, death. He wished to visit the grave and pays respects. It was like his. He would manipulate people with historic, but I go, I miss dog had great dog with goal during for dog like just so manipulative plans people's emotions. When when they reached a lonely spot where Alex steadied buried his dog years ago, Pushkin produces a bottle of odd. Kia offers Pronin to drink while we don't know what positions chosen weapon was. On this particular occasion, we do know that later on he would use metal rods or even the vodka bottles themselves to smash the skulls victims. So in all likelihood smashes the back of Pronin, say with with the with the vodka bottle, definitely with a blunt object and then and then hauls his license body to a nearby. Well, then dumps the body down it and then his body plummets thirty feet into the dirty water below. And his plan is working in a matter of minutes. He'd killed us. Stranger he had no ties to and then completely disposed of the body leaving no evidence of a murder behind while it might seem like a well would be a terrible place to dump. Abbadi start to stink, and then people would eventually find it not not this. Well, this will fed into the sewer system of the park. So Alexander knew what he was doing. It was a brilliant disposable disposals gives me system the Moscow sewer system to well drained into his vast and winding went on for miles and miles of miles. It's a bodies ever washed up in a place where someone might notice them and that in itself was highly unlikely. It would be almost impossible to trace that body back to that location and beats a park. And so the death looked like the also excuse me. The deaths look like it'd be, it'd be accidents. There's just little ROY, blunt trauma to the back of the head. The people weren't shot stabbed excessively beaten, and a lot of times they didn't even die from the initial blow. It's like they, they would be, you know, they'd fall down on the well and the fall would kill them or they would drown down there in the water. So following the death of beginning, you Pronin Alexander Shchukin finds it. Killing comes easy of the next day weeks. He would Lord nine more unsuspecting victims down to their watery deaths, not known how many of those dumped down the well by we're dead when they landed or just merely unconscious. You know, again, you know, probably like days by their injury, they probably drown in the darkness. Further complicating this murder investigation. They wouldn't even happen for years. There would be no investigation for a long time after each attack. Alexander would rush back to the small shared apartment on, you know that you share with his family. They live in his entire free life and apartment. He lived right up until you get caught and he just, you know, when he would just move from one cell to another and when he would come home after murder, he murders gives me he carefully take out his most prized possession a chessboard and then he would blackout one of the squares, or I guess on the black squares, you know, make some other kind of marking Alexander was with article when it came to selecting his victims. Since this was not a sexual crime, more really of a fucked up game. The only criteria was how easily he could get away with killing him. So he just would look for more outcasted. Neighborhood. He'd look for drunks homeless in wanted. He looked for magicians recklessly bowlers clarinet players, fanny pack collectors, jazz aficionados pipe smokers, unicycle riders jugglers. Mimes, you know the lowest of the low scum of the earth. Obviously Kennedy about magicians and everything since then, how would that be? If he only, you know, there was still killer who only targeted people who you know smoke via pipe or magicians full. You'll Knicks three. I make you disappear a couple of field produced pollution targeted people that society would not miss right away if ever and even if a family member did care enough after wait in there, the requisite three days, you had to wait and Russia. At that time before someone officially became a missing person, they'd have to then head to the local police station, whether it'd file a missing persons report that would give place to the bottom of a who gives us shit pile police in Moscow at the time for fucking terrible. They were known more for drinking and bribe-taking than doing any kind of actual detective. Work, and this is why no one makes any connections or notices the number of missing people being reported that you know notices that it was increasing because nobody cared. You have examples coming up here soon. The place absolutely atrocious in this in this suck today, Alexander was I'm sure aware of the apathetic attitudes of most local police officers. Yeltsin knew there was a ridiculous amount of tapes surrounding investigations. He needed to police. We're understaffed, underpaid, and this is all creates a perfect storm for him just to continue to fly under the radar and just kill it will July. July twenty, three thousand one. Alexander presumptions initial killing spree, culminates with the disappearance of Victor Volkov positions. Eleventh victim just over two months after vocals, murder. Alexander slows down but does not stop killing. Also in two thousand one. He decides Victor size, it, he excuse me. Alexander decides he's not interested in just killing strangers. He makes a list of thirty nine acquaintances. This is so that's so crazy to thirty nine acquaintances. He also wanted to murder saying later the close person needs to you, the more pleasant to these to kill them. It's more emotional, my God and to show how little he gave a shit about killing these strangers and acquaintances. He made an effort to kill them early in the afternoon so he can make it home by eight thirty pm to watch his favorite soap opera a French historical drama called the duchess they a month threw. God forbid some park murdered get in the way the duchess on February twenty. Third, two thousand to position went after an acquaintance, almost backfired when she didn't die. Don't worry. Thanks to more shitty place to work and no one giving a shit about the life of the average Russian living in one of these project apartments. Today's time line, we'll continue for quite some time. This story is bananas, the story of Maria of Chevra that February this young woman comes to Alexander Pushkin. She she'd grown up in the tar. STAN also knows the Republican Tatarstan. A very rural area of the Russian federation were jobs are scarce home of the tar or. Actually, sometimes it's called totters depending on which pronunciation guide you look at. The correct version seems to be Tatars years earlier. The Mongol empire established by Gingas Kahn would become allied with the Tatars and like the Mongols their warriors were excellent when it came to fight it on horseback one of the several minority ethnic groups living in Russia. But then we're not here to talk about the Tatars or the, you know, tartar sauce. They become mostly known for fish and chips and life will sauce invented are the Tatars primary contributions of modern life. I do remember here net saying lot is a kit where you haven't lived until you fish and chips and Dave in Tatarstan. Obviously, that's lame joke. They didn't invent tartar sauce, and that's not even remotely catchy saying or song. It doesn't even rhyme the thing have rhythm. No never said that until now realizing that the only way to support yourself was to move to Moscow and bitterly aware that she could not afford the necessary expensive work papers and permits the Tatar. Maria Vetter Chevy became an illegal immigrant and our own. Harry became an illegal immigrant Moscow with super weird since two tar, STAN part of the Russian federation that time that's like being from Oregon and then not being allowed to work in California, but they just the way that they, you know, fucking regulated. Everything in Russia was insane, Russia. What's the con to the Marie lived a very lonely existence in Moscow. She had to be very careful that no one discover her legal status. She was found best case scenario would be deportation worst-case, it'd be imprisonment and then she meets Alexander Pushkin. She live in this lonely lifestyle for awhile, and then she's also pregnant. So I guess you didn't spend all over time alone. Some other do just takes off that seems to be a theme in the story. This do getting pregnant and never sticking around. This doesn't bother pollution and he befriends her, you know, I guess, what does he care? He'll throw anyone down a well, you know, lady pregnant lady, whatever if anything, pregnant lady would be more appealing? Probably when it came to his cheek akilah competition, it'd be two for one one trip to the park. One push into a well, and you go home and you blackout to chessboard squares just in time to watch the duchess. Later, say, I, I understood immediately that she was upset and offered her company. You speak into a microphone when he said that and his glassed in defendants cage in the court while he used vodka deliver most of his male victims to the well. He said he would use a different tactic when it came to women, he would say women always need to have financial interest to lure very Chebba, but Shchukin tells the several boxes of brand new contraband cameras, stash deep inside the park. He knew what the baby on the way, no father and pictures. She needed money. I mean, he knew this personally, it was his own mother story. So he tells Maria that if she she'll help them move this merchandise, she can keep half the profit for herself. She herself later verify this in court. When Pushkin's finally apprehended. Some Maria agrees to go on a walk with Alexander to get the cameras. She goes with him to his favorite isolated corner of pizza park place where he'd bring people talk about his dog and fucking bash over the head along the way. He does offer her vodka just. He didn't not use vodka at all with women being pregnant. Oh, she refuses so the so he takes a swing himself and and you know, build up the liquid courage needed to try and kill her. He lifts a manhole cover off this. Well, he's been dumping people in and tells vir, Chavez, come closer telling her, you know, he has the contraband. They've come for hidden inside when she approaches. He just grabs her fucking shoved around the well. She manages to grab the rim of the opening, and then he grabs her by the hair and smashes her head into the wells, concrete walls repeatedly. Just bashing, her head in decide until she lets go and falls, and then she would hear shoes can yell as she's falling. Just take about their she leaders to say that the court after fallen about eight meters down to the well just over twenty six feet down. She lands at a sewage pipe about one meter diameter little over three feet with street with a stream running through it about seventy centimeters. Twenty seven inches deep little stream as a strong current and the powerful flow carries her far away from where she's landed, just like to carry the bodies of other chessboard killer. Victims. But unlike other victims, she's not debt after several seconds, underwater sheets she manages to, you know, come to the surface and and catch a breath. She's able to remove her jacket and boots to free herself. Eventually able to plant her feet and hands on the side of the pipe to keep from being swept away. As the only reason she's still alive. Sheet, allowed to current, do continue to carry her. She would have drowned in a section of the pipe completely filled with water. She's able to find another concrete well with an iron ladder running up. The side is amazing. She lived, she clambers her way up to the top only to be met by the forty kilogram almost ninety pound iron manhole cover. There was on the top of these wells. You can't lift it enough to get out, but you can, you know, I guess, you know, scream loud enough to have a woman, hear her cries, and that woman alerts to park security guards who then come over, take off the cover, lift trembling, half naked woman out from the well and call an ambulance. She's taken to the hospital both. She and her unborn child actually survived the attack. When police arrive at the hospital to question her, she provides them with a. Detailed description of the attack and upper Shchukin who she knew by name and all they have to do now is go question, but she was in the entire case is cracked wide open, a serial killer Kat. And now he's sitting in prison with a much lower body count, but but they do not act on her information. No. Instead, they asked to see her immigration papers and when they learned that she doesn't have any and they realize that they're going to have to deal with a lot of paperwork, the giver choice, they informer that they will ignore her illegal presence in Moscow if she will drop her claim that she has been assaulted, holy shit, Russian policeman, historically incredibly corrupt and just inept what a sad example of just being lazy and incompetent, Leah, thin. I get it. It's no fun to be tossed and well is enjoyable for you to hit. I, I hear I get it, but here thing, if you press charges, then we have many people works. Then now we have heard heads also, you know who who needs more has more heads be hurt it, and look, you know, supposed to be here, you know, supposed to be in Moscow, he was supposed to be in to stop making fish deep. So you know, press charge, winnow sandbox to land of sauce effort. Gotta have octa. They help you and baby forget about a sewer trip. So Maria does not present this even worse. She kept living and work in the same housing project spur shoes. This is the luggage bananas, part of this story to me and she ran into him all the time. I just trying to seeing this guy how awkward is that you're running into the guy who tries to kill you over and over for years. God. What are we talked to him? Illo Maria, look, I feel like I need a dress pink elephant in the room tension, thick enough to cut with knife a probably in hindsight, should've used to stab you few times before tossing you. Well, pits it listen. Yes, I try kill you. You know, it's, I know it's, but that was many months ago I want. You know, I have no hard feelings about the. You're not dying with unborn child in despair. Pete, I wish had happened so no need for you to nothing. Hi or avoid eye contact. Let bygones be people who tried to kill but fail the see you tomorrow on real cannot get over that part of the story. Just having to continue to see that son of a badge over and over years later when he's finally caught, she used Kim. She used to tell the court that he almost had a nervous breakdown when he saw her for the first time. Just back back, you are complex after the attack. I bet he did. He walked out with his mom, Sasha what you look like. You see, ghosts, I think maybe I do see ghost mother. You see lady is I see a pretty goes baby. You know her. Years among I once once toss down the will leave for did it's long story. Let's go Pushkin gets over the nation. Shock, and then it's. Does. He makes the story even crazier eventually asked her shoot light to head back to the park with him. He actually asked her if she wants to take another walk within they both verify this later in court, my God. No, thanks. Alexander recalls her saying later one time was enough for me the fucking balls on this guy. It's Meals on the guy pushing well. I wondering what doing the Saturday? We'll maybe like hang out in park. May we walked back to, will I curious how you live, maybe explain to me too. I can become more effective more the person. And did she really just say, no, thank you. Have a hard time believing that the actual word. She said, Maria, can I try kill you again sometime another? Thank you. I puzzled politely decline more their offer. How crazy was life in Russia US talking to a friend, you Saturday, Johnny. Dare awesome. Hard. Rock metal morning show. DJ Kansas City. He told me he spent New Year's Eve in Moscow recently, like in the last few years, and he said it's still crazy, and he's been all over the world. And so it takes a lot. This is a guy who has flame throwers and cannons on property. I'm not even joking and he was like us. It's crazy. It's crazy still a city where you know a lot of shady crazy shit goes down. Odds are you're not listening to this episode while this living in a despair inducing Moscow government housing project. You know, our rush a Russian listener numbers while they do exist are not just off the charts. And if you're not in Russia, there's a very good chance you in addition to having more hope in your life than the average bear can also take advantage of today sponsored. He did their today's times rachi by hymns. As I've said before, I've used finance ride for years. It's medicine. The while initially used to only treat enlarged prostate glands also determined to be very effective in preventing hair loss and men, and compared to my dad and granted my age guess who has more hair this guy, same high hairline that's been on my family for generations, but more hair behind the line. And while side effects can occur, I've experienced zero that I notice other than more hair results vary, but mine have been great. Also, I've noticed way more hair back and I'm a balls on my ass. Here's the thing. I don't even wear underwear any more. I've worn into wearing years. I've so much, but in ball hair, it's it's like a for padding, the protects my skin from clothing. I can actually go to the beach naked and not. It's not illegal. I have so much that much back and chest and ball hair. I can. I cannot wear shirt, but still wear a vest and and that's crazy. I'm no hair you're gonna was before taking up an asteroid growing for would not be an acceptable side effect. It's not even true the last thing as lasting I should be saying. When you when you start to notice hair loss, it is too late, but thanks to science ball can be optional with forums dot com. Hailed him rod praises FINA for him dot com. One-stop shop for hair loss, skin care, sexual wellness for men hymns connects you with real doctors and medical great solution to treat. For example, for example, jeez, erectile dysfunction. They provide well-known generic equivalents, name-brand prescriptions, not snuggle appeals, not gas station counter supplements or shit sold out of the back of a van by why do with threads who smells like he didn't just bake pop brownies. He smoked like he is a pot brownie so order. Now you time suck and meet Saxon spaces, get a trial month of him for just five bucks today. While supplies last see website for full details that would cost hundreds. If you went to a doctor pharmacy, go to four hymns dot com. Slash time suck. That's four hymns dot com. Slash time suck forums dot com. Slash time Lincoln the episode description or just push the hymns button in the sponsor section of the time. Suck app. Okay. Luckily while Maria would see the man who attempted to murder her, she would not actually be murdered by Pushkin and then just a few weeks later, but Houston, almost murders again an almost, but does not get caught the his murder spree should've. I sure ended in two thousand two on March tenth, two thousand two Twenty-seven-year-old. Alexander sees a group of teenagers at the train station the that he goes to head to his grocery store job and you protest. One of them thirteen year old skater Mikhail low. Both offers him vodka cigarettes. You know, that's that's not creepy. Liz list will drink in Polk kid. Let's go drink smoke in pork. It's fun. The kid goes with him. And then when they go to pursue, she goes, you know, preferred kellyn spot. He follows the procedure hit skip over the head, surprise blow pushing down the well and then takes off. Well, luckily Mikhail jacket catches on a piece of metal inside the well saving him from a plunge into dicey waters. He's able to climb out. First thing he does is find a place officer. He'd forms of. Of the assault. Just like Maria a few weeks ago, he describes the assault and describes Alexander Pushkin in detail. And again, the police do not give a shit. Why? So many people fall down the wheel LA. What Catholic people who more careful round wealth. You don't want to throw you down? Well, well, here here advice don't go in there. Well, while you want give me paperwork, I tell I need to tell push next time. I see him. He needed to push harder if going to murder, make sure no leave trace snow trace no paperwork. That's more. There are like one who leave, no trace no one interviews and no one bothers to write a report. Unlike Maria though. Mikhail doesn't forget about it. He doesn't just, you know, wait for position to stop by asking head back into the park, just Hilo Mikhail a wondering if you me Maria. Maybe we all have together joke about old times you to get along. Well, you have, you know how you say common ground you you both push. Down and same ground. We, how about the play best of three Mikhail waits for producing a accompany buys? Friends Mikhail returns to the metro station that train station where he I, I'll exander they wait until they see him again and they do. They seem getting off a train. He's headed home after finishing a shift. Then Mikhail excitedly tells a police officer nearby what happens points a position. That's the fucking guy right there. He, that's the guy who did it again as he's Nord. So then Mikhail runs up to choose chicken and attacks him, screaming, quantities, face, and then the police take action against Mikhail. They have this kid and tell him to go home before he's arrested, and then the chessboard killer call me walks home. How enraged and disgusted are you if you're Mikhailova in that situation? How does heartening I police officer doesn't care to your tax second. Please out, doesn't care. Then the police fit in you when you attack your, it's hacker then position himself and this, yeah, to add to the craze of two thousand two. So now two people in a few weeks have been like that is the guy who did it and no one cares. Then he himself goes to the police station in this weird drunken night in two thousand and two. He's already killed his point anywhere from twenty to thirty people. He stumbles drunk into the local police station and loudly proclaims that he has killed a lot of people and that he will continue to kill a lot of people because that is what I must do to quote, he goes into the wall, they must do. I must continue to kill deal here. Do understand. I've killed so many instead of arresting him or at least question him the on-duty. Police officers literally laugh him off to get out of here. God, you still goes, get home. He had to felt invincible. At this point, no future skin. I above law, police want me to kill. Russia wants me to kill their dog, and Paul caused me to kill man. I hope my neighbors can hear that. That's fun. People working above the suck dungeon can be like, what in the fuck that we just hear? What who's he talking about? Killing in two thousand three, but Houston sister Kaci gets married but doesn't move out. We mentioned this earlier a little bit. She marries a man also named Alexander who also pushes people down. Wells Huby be known as strangler. Koch's husband would would be charged with killing eleven people between two thousand four, two thousand seven. Now sitting in the same prison his brother-in-law and that's not true back about enough that got his brothers continuing to kill. You would never trust anyone. Again, if your brother and husband, we're pushing people down wells in a park. Caccia and her husband, they share coaches room with their with their young son, and now there's five people living in this little tiny flat of, you know, mother to Tosh is already crowded with three people. Now there's five people there the spring of two thousand three Alexander Pushkin on the lookout for thirty second victim. The man he found was a local another. Another drunk person in the park. You know, like many previous victims, and honestly, like Pushkin himself when when he's not killing, he's just getting drunk often alone. Just, you know, watching porn stocking shelves at work, but shoes can asks his new companion. If you had a wish. And the man replied that he wanted to stop drinking. I wish I could stop drinking and then Alexander calmly told him that this would be the day. Oh, you're for sure. Gonna stop drinking today. Then he smashed him and they have the vodka bottle, and then he kept hitting him and hit him, hit him and eventually caved the defenseman sculling little more with that kill. And then he then he shoved the vodka bottle into the dude's head into skull. And then through the body down the weld took off, why is he doing this? Well, because he feels like. He's good at it just like he loved the feeling of playing and winning chess matches and bits park. But he was a teenager, you know, he loved to beat the old Druckman and chess. Well, now he enjoys, you know, beaten these same old drunk to death in a new game, another strategy of sorts. Can I kill you and not get caught? And he was even better at this game than he was a chess known was safe around Petushki. He killed both total strangers, acquaintances neighbors. If I kill it was one of the only friends he had on November, fifteen fifteenth, two thousand three Pushkin's neighbor. Constantine Apollo cut off. Let's his apartment to buy cigarettes before watching a football match on television and Pushkin invite him to the park for a drink, smashed him over the head three times with a hammer this time, changes it up a little bit, throws him down the murder well, and then incredibly this guy also lives third personnel, third person in just a little over a year who survived an attack in a toss down a well. This guy manages to climb out of the sewer, but due to the head trauma, he doesn't remember the attack. Chase only his relatives testified in court about what avid to, and then produced see this guy in the street about two weeks later and offers him to take him out to the park again for another drink. He declined, but she's we later tell the court also saying, I asked others to go drink and they accepted the invitation. There's a lot of freeloaders. Let's that shows kinda what he thinks the people. You know, I just, you know, they accepted his offer nice alva- for drink than there are freeloaded him and then they're worth killing. This guy is unbelievable. I can't think of another murder I've ever read about who so openly keeps trying to kill the same people he'd tried to kill previously and didn't just I can't. They constancy him. I was hoping that you me nice, single mother and they Maria. This cool skate kid Mikhail. I love to take all three of you to well, we could talk. We could drink to to finishing business if only Alexander had access to audible, maybe he would have spent less time killing. Why can't that sentiment being corporate into maybe a new slogan for audible key magin off. People better than pushing strangers down a death. Well, time is brought to you today by audible. What would it look like? If we all listen, more listening to audio books motivates us inspires us brings us closer together. There's no better place to listen to audible because now audible members get even more exclusive audio, finish programs, audio books, audio originals, and more Ottawa has the largest selection of audio books on the planet. And now with audible originals the selections gotten even more custom, you know, or more selection with custom content may just for members every month. Audible members get one credit good for any audio book. They choose plus to audible originals from a changing selection that they can't get anywhere else. They can also access to audio fitness and health workouts create exclusively four audible, plus your books are yours to keep without about. You can go back and religion. Anytime even if you cancel your membership, didn't like your audiobook. Okay, exchange it. No questions asked in preparation for the Halloween week, suck. On Ed and the rain Warren. The couple behind the stories that led to the hor- blockbuster films to conjuring an Annabel. I'm listening to the demon allergist, the extraordinary career of Ed in the rain warrant to great, listen, great to get ready for that episode for over five decades Ed and Lorraine. Warren have been considered America's foremost experts on demon algae and exercise them with over three thousand investigations to their credit. They reveal what actually breaks the peace in haunted houses. So check it out, get a head start on that. Halloween suck. Check it out what you start thirty day trial and your first audiobook is free. When you do go to dot com. Slash time suck or text time suck to five hundred five hundred. That's audible a d. i. b. l. e. dot com. Slash time suck or textiles up to five hundred five hundred. You can do valuables link and text info. In today's episode description now, back to our regularly scheduled constant Russian murdering. One cold night in November two thousand five. The police were finally called to beats ca park or beats apart for one of positions murders. Finally, finally, investigation Abbadi has been discovered Nikolai Zaka, chanko sixty two years old. Former policeman Nikolai is thought to be chew skins forty first victim. That means that at least forty people vanished before the police were even aware that there have been some murders going on in the same fucking park. I mean, but she's already come into the police station confessed to almost mortar victims begged a place to question him. So maybe maybe they should have been kind of aware something was going on, but now they can't blow it off any longer. The detective detectives that the interior ministry and the prosecutor general's office realized there's a serial killer in Moscow. They take over the investigation, take it away from the police, the local police, you know why didn't it? And why did this guy toss down the well, this latest victim? Well, it seems like, but she was either getting. Lazy or tired of people not realizing he was killing all these people. I mean, his main motivation is notarized has made motivations to kill more people than she can go to to become infamous for doing so and you and you don't get that. If nobody knows the killings are happening. Shortly, Nikolai bodies found Alexander his mother. Natasha has Kostya. They're watching the news and a report about the killer. Now, dubbed the beats park maniac comes on and Pushkin reportedly stood up in the apartment is shouted, fuck. Yes, that is me, mother. I am on TV. You say, mother IB big star than she teal and my cock rock hard. I prove it. He pulled his pants down and he pointed his erect penis. I mother then the sister, then his brother-in-law they said, you will respect me. You'll to speckled. I've done. They pull his pants back up. You sat down and said enough of news the duchess of months. It'll be on the few minutes chase channel or get or get thrown in death. Well, you'll choice. No, of course not Alexander began. Leaving more bodies out in the open though after that after an initial news story stops using the well, he loves the attention. He's getting wants to feed it, feed the media, right? The story of the bitter park maniac is growing. All of Moscow captivated terrified by his murders, more and more bodies being found that eventually in early two thousand sixty powerful interior ministry, signs of -tective, Andrei super Nintendo to the head of the investigation. It was clear to him because of the lack of police work up until this point that the killer was not going to be caught until he struck again and made a mistake. Sadly, despite those earlier investigation or accusations, cues me, there were no official reports made of any of the survivor's from his early murder attempts and then on June fourteen two thousand and six thirty two year old Shchukin makes the mistake that soup Ranko was waiting for and on the night of June fourteenth, two thousand six thirty six year old marina. Most Columbia follows the usual pattern. Her life followed into. She got up senators. Sunday school for another grocery store where she worked with Pushkin one of his co workers store where they'd worked, where she'd worked with one of Russia's. Most prolific serial killers for quite some time before marina started work at at the store. Another woman, Lisa Colonia had worked there and then one night on her way home. She had disappeared. Never to be seen again. So the pizza park maniac had created a job opening for her. And now he was going to open that position. Once again, marina made him not of known about larissa's disappearance, but like the rest of Moscow, she had to have heard of the beats park maniac. So not the best choice to go for a walk in the park. You know, after work, you know that night with Patricia. However, he was a co worker for all we know. You know, maybe the two had known each other and kind of become friendly in, you know, maybe they've been talking how about how sick to beat to park maniac was for for weeks or months in the break room, though before they left for the walk marina returned to her flat and unbeknownst to petition. Let's note for her son telling him where she was going. With whom she would be heading there with put Pushkin's phone number on the note, her son then came home that night to empty house finds a note after few hours mother still hadn't come home. So he's watching and then was watching TV news bulletin reports that a woman's body had been found in and beats park. So he calls Shchukin and Pushkin tells him that he hadn't seen marina in two months, which was a stupid lie to tell someone even kit because they work together. Of course, they see each other, but so now he looks guilty shoeshine then claims. He's too busy to talk to Kim hangs up. And then the kid calls his dad never listened to his son. His dad then calls a police, tells them about the note and then lead investigators Ranko, you know, he's told about all this. He knows he has his guy, but he knows also needs more info than the note to bring Pushkin in on more evidence against. So the note itself, you know, interesting, but not damning, not completely. So he starts watching closed caption, television footage of marina head home that night sees her with Alexander Pushkin, get knocked to metro and heading direction to the park, and then two nights later on June sixteenth, two thousand six. As the clock approaches, midnight, petitions, mother, and the tasha. Here's someone pound on the door when she opens it a column of men in riot gear, push pastor, find Alexsandr produced immediately, arrest him, take him down to the station officers searched the flat for evidence, fine. Pushkin's chessboard sixty of the sixty four squares had been marked. This is the origin obviously of his nickname, and why there is speculation that he killed up to sixty people or perhaps even sixty three as he would claim in court. Later, the news broke that Alexander was the beats park maniac. He soon dubbed now the chessboard killer. The Coble district was shocked to hear that one of their own was the murderer. The daughter of Boris of feed the Sova, choose thirty six victim recall later that there was a total shock. When we heard it was Sasha, but she was gonna member. He's called Sasha by kind of acquaintances family. She recalled the serial killer was always very calm, always by himself for those who grew up with Houston's house, it's Caccia had known Alexander for. Almost all of her life and she would go onto attend all Forty-six days of his trial. Natasha founded odd, highly preferred to kill people. He knew people who worked with live near befriended in the park. Indeed, Petushki did befriend people just so he could kill them how exist. One of his favorite books was deal Carnegie's how to win friends and influence people for real all part of a strategy. This all just game for him. Investigators to print co spent hours then interviewing Alexander one on one leading up to his trial and apparently can love the time they spend together. It made him feel important. Supertanker would say, he said, I told him, I admired him and he liked it, and then he opened up. It was very important for pollution that people think he was a hero. So I made him feel like a hero hero. How did partition rationalize that? I guess in very much the same way that his idol she could deal did he convinced himself he was just getting rid of burdens on the state. Just, you know, getting rid of people not contributed enough to society, the riffraff cleaning up the riffraff. Even though he was just as riff raff. -i or more so than they were supreme can also said that we were in shock when we realized how many people he'd killed. In the beginning, we only had thirteen bodies and then produced and began to tell us that he'd killed more than sixty people psychologist who examined him, concluded that Pushkin was narcissistic. Yeah, and had a personality disorder, but ultimately was saying four, the serial killer. The process of preparing to kill and killing is in is in erotic experiences. Alexander Buchenwald fee this IQ trysts and serial killer expert who helped authorities identify, but she's control Chica Taylor. Oh, and the early nineteen ninety s soup Ranko exploited patricians narcissism for killer. So hard to catch building up the case against him. Once he was caught was very, very easy choose can just gave them all the information they wanted more because he wanted him to find the bodies he wanted to add to his body count. So you know, so he could pass tickets Hilo. That was the game now. And he was happy that just like his hero to deal his. Is now going to be must watch TV in a televised confession, following his arrest. But Houston said, he routinely invited his victims for a drink by the grave of his pet dog before attacking them when they were drunk, he would say for me, life without mother is like a life without food. And then this is the creepiest thing. He said. He said, I felt like he her to all these people since it was I who opened the door for them to the afterlife. Okay. Little insight into his motivation. Go mom, comeback too. Well with me, I try not to I kill you. I give you life. I help you through door to know the world. I push you through the more spiritual travel agent mortar father, partisan than Keillor Tober twenty fourth, two thousand seven just over sixteen months after being apprehended, Pushkin found guilty of murdering forty-eight people. They couldn't get the, he confessed to more, but they couldn't find evidence, they gonna bodies. So they couldn't, you know, charge him with the other Merced to Jerry. Only three hours to come to that conclusion since the life in prison because Russia Russia, no longer was using the death penalty also sends to his first fifteen years of be served in solitary confinement. Yeah, that he was found guilty of killing only forty eight people is significant because that's five short of the total Andrei Chica Tito was convicted of so he didn't in reach his goal. This is what this big deal. Mother's big damore. Like who big deal not just can he nothing in the hat? You take the harder dick, amateur, you take him out of, you know, you know, Chica -til. Oh, puts us in all even Russell your snake, Turkey guy. You're not even each one part of person. What what points you're not even come one time I would find eat do for breakfast, maybe literally, I fuck you Shchukin for for sure. Literally, in that case, why even suck juiston the week? No strong Russian, not even the jerk nut. Really. I maybe maybe I missed that part. I fall asleep for a while Cummins, yes, I call you that. I call you by name though. I watch you from window shadow Chica -til sometime when you suck, you know better. Cheated. I, you put in put your skin instead of me. I forgot. I kill you unlike GTO, but you can also never kill any prostitutes, which does make another weird dark times character happy by Bob, blah, blah, blah brige digging easy prey. Now in Dhaka's the dog days, no rust off degradation. No copulation relation penetration. No boy is domestic base. Leaving postmortem Jackie laser. You feeling you, did you hear you've all the world chicken, Joe, Nova Juna sneaky way of a bad man, pushing sadness, Amandus on folks already living in drug days, devoted gladden. His I know won't. FOX is no chickens hands even roses in the coupe and that don't mean Dino listening, Polly boop. That was seventies pimp chicken Joe's way of saying that he doesn't think for a second that Alexander Pushkin is a good dude. He, he just glad there wasn't an openly sexual element, whose crimes he didn't, at least you know prey on sexual workers of your new passenger on the train. And I was that was crazy. We got a few characters that we can't seem to convince to leave the show. All right, despite the crimes he confessed to committing a week after his conviction patricians, attorneys, file an appeal, requesting him more lenient sense. He has just been convicted of killing forty eight people and they're like, I would like to we like to ask the court for some leniency. The court announces her decision about the appeal. On Valentine's Day two thousand eight while his mother does not appear in court to hear this verdict and tasha that neighbor, you know, the few desilva positions lawyer Powell inning of or Yvonne kofsky me the panel of three judges the prosecutor, obviously they're all their bunch of bunch of teens, I guess, whispering into cell phones too scared to look at the bits, bark maniac or beats park maniac to chessboard killer who who looks bored, I guess then amused an angry, but you can never looked directly at the video camera in his cell. During this little sentencing, he's talking to someone. No one can see kind of modern-day himself is this little blackened button-down shirt and black t-shirt lasts for a moment. And then then grin turns into a frown, turns into look of incredulity Morrison to another stare. And while this is all going on, there's flashbulbs exploding newspaper reporters, you know, in the courtroom to people wailing one woman screaming, whereas my body talking about. Husband, some other person disappeared in those woods, and then the judge asked produced can if he wants to say anything before his, the final verdict on his appeal, and you says NIA NIA, it just, no, there's nothing, and then his lawyer Powell losing his tie and gives his final appeal to the judge about why his while the judge should have mercy and why they should reduce the sense twenty five years. That's fucking crazy. So you know about six months person, he was convicted of killing how big of a piece of shit do you feel like in that situation, if your defense attorney asking for that, how to even do that? Yeah, you oughta on the I understand that my client has been found guilty of killing the Ford. The people that's not cool. It's messed up and I understand that he wanted to be charged with roughly twelve one murder, but wasn't because you know, no one could find bodies. And the note could remember names. And I know that he said for me, life with us murder is like life without foot butts. He'll let me out. I just. Feel like he good candidate to begin a second chance he listened. He has positive qualities. He very good at stocking grocery stores. Jove's he like he popular found of soap opera and look while his store does not want him back because he murdered someone different employs I'm showed another store would be happy to have him took the judges less than an hour to rulings appeal. They declare, of course, the dirigible sense stance, key mashing if they're like, all right now, twenty five years. That's that's fine. Position and we'll never go free, has he has? You should not. They announce it soon. He's going to be moved from jail in Moscow. Where's mom was able to visit him twice a month and bring him cigarettes cheese and salted lard which I guess was something she wanted. I guess that speaks to how terrible food is in Russian prisons is mother. You must building me food started here. Please bring me something better. Tweet like like Ronson skunk meet, perhaps salted Lord, but your skin is taken to the impossible to escape quote, unquote. Polar Al. Penal colony Carville age in the Arctic north of Siberia, an Torius maximum security prison, where he is still sitting there and solitary confinement where he is not even allowed a chessboard for company, and that takes us out of today's time. Suck timeline. Good job soda made it back Ben. Lots more thoughts to share on chessboard Keller and and I'll share some of some of his thoughts as well little insights into how his mind works of before I share them. I wanna Mosey on over to you too, and check in with the idiots of the internet. The internet. There is surprisingly little media available at least stuff written English about Alexander Pushkin there. I did find a shitty BBC documentary on YouTube called Russia's Certa killer Alexander Pushkin and the BBC is usually so good. I'm usually a huge fan this. This is not their finest work. There's there's a couple of hundred comments underneath though. So I started peaking in their figured I could figure I could find a few few comments provide some laughter and and I did and I did I right away. I found Nathan Hager to who cracked me up posting. I'm surprised everyone in Russia isn't a serial killer. It's a country containing only snow, Adidas, clothing, and unfinished apartment buildings. And then Keighley Beth cracks me up further posting also bears gymnasts I got, I love Russian, jokes, eleven, but island, Mike does not user island. Mike does not think it is funny and replies with talk that shit. You just did behind a screen, but in Russia out in the open and see what happens to your snowflake ass. Easy island, Mike, you know, you hear a name like island, Mike, and you. You expect a chill out a toot. Who'd island Mike has zero chill in him, and how is what he did this? You know how this original poster Nathan did related to being a snowflake. Snowflake is a slur for someone who's super liberal being easily offended. Nathan didn't say anything conservative or liberal didn't express being offended in any way your snowflake, Mike island, Mike, you'll whiny soft skin soft headed baby. User banana split was as confused as I was about not getting caught after thrown that pregnant women down the well only to have her survive in report into police. She posts, why on earth didn't police do anything when he was named after pushing the pregnant woman down the sewer, she was a survivor of a horrific killer and gave a graphic statement yet they decide not to investigate very troubling. I can't even an Arshad but has the perfect answer writing 'cause they are lazy fucks thing, ding, ding, ding, ding, nailed it. Arshad bonus points for being so sustained with your answer. That's exactly right. They bucks. That's why they didn't do user links. Dominance made me laugh out loud by posting. By posting vodka bottles, don't kill people. People do shit. I think he just won the thread links. I love it, vodka bottles. Don't kill people. People kill people. Use her. Kevin Kato also, really cracked me up. The footage is horribly grainy on this video. I don't know, just recorded. It's terrible this documentary. I mean, I'm sure there original footage isn't terrible over the YouTube stuff is real real bad in. So Kevin post, this was shot entirely on my two thousand five. Motorola flip phone thread bringing the communicate today. I love it. And then we have as usual, the virtuous signal virtue signal, excuse me in the group, use your Tech's who posts. I hate killer so much. How dare you take someone's life and destroy so many lives just sick. Yep, Yep. No, I think we can all agree. Yeah, presec pretty hateful. And then and then immediately troll. Mike NICKY tries to rile up vortex replying with killary Clinton. I know that's dumb, but this posted only from two months ago and it is hilarious to me that some people are still shooting on Hillary. She lost. We all know that whether you'll ever hater. Yeah, it's been a while now let it go, but if you don't let it go, please keep posting killary Clinton. It's so silly and juvenile, but it does make me laugh every time. I hear it killer. I thought this was going to be nothing but funny or at least amusing posts. And then I wasn't gonna find true idiot gold. But then I found it found a nice little nugget of gold. There's golden them, they'll threads his golden down there. I tell you to end user Sager Dylan does not seem to understand how war works and commits what I think is a big logical fallacy here posting such a waste, he would thrive in a war zone, send him to kill Taliban or ISIS. No, he wouldn't. I don't think he would thrive Sager because you know nothing. He did with soldier like he wasn't sniping people with precision shots from faraway splaine that kind of military talent. He wasn't overpowering armed enemies in a chaotic bullets flying all over the place, urban setting. It wasn't using a impressive organizational or logistical skills to coordinate a missile strike or or great teamwork skills work to work cohesively. You know, with his unit and a dangerous high stress battlezone. He was following orders, keeping himself in peak physical condition, be mentally ready. Use a sad antisocial. Loaner slash loser pretending to be drunk vulnerable, old men and occasionally overly trusting women and teens in order to lure them to a secluded area of park. And then when they're not looking Basham in the head with the vodka bottle or a hammer and put them into a well, I don't think that particular skill set translates into the battlefield. Not sure how often the opportunity comes up to ask whoever you're fighting to take a walk in the park, share some vodka young then tell them there something you wanted to look at in a manhole or in a little hole in a well, then push him down there and then you know bashing, their head whatever or or I guess you'd bashing here before, like like winwood, that kind of opportunity come up in a battle zone, just tallow. How person, hey, hey, is this fellow staff shooting for seconds? Listen, why we do this is beautiful day. I have nice bottle of vodka. Why? Why not? We have drinks glisten. I don't. I don't want to be down there, but today is tough day for me days. Today is out of the verse three of dog dying. So if you could, could you please put gunned down for seconds, take break from War. I have. I have some of what you like I stash. I have whatever you like our habits of by manhole cover and park for serious Kamal. Let us drink. I show you. Let's let me open door to allow for you in pool, shoot through door. Please. The that. We learned a lot about what Alex Alexander Pushkin did. We haven't heard much directly from him. No. So let's change at chessboard. Killer has done some interviews from behind bars. He, he loves tension. We know that he's given us some insights into how his mind works. So here are some of his thoughts that I found interesting regarding be incarcerated. He says, when I was brought to prison, I was not in good mood. I was. I was cranky, I don't like being brought to prison now. It's golden bit. I have completely adapted. They have ideal water here. It's so hot even have to dilute it with cold Walter deal. Know how much time they give me the data show five minutes that's quota his. I think I mentioned this earlier that really he was just transferred from one cell to another like outside of killing people. He worked in the same store stocking shelves every week, then it's went home and went to that tiny, cramped apartment, which is really like a one bedroom apartment getting drunk. You're porn. He's not hanging out with his, you know, four people living there. He seemed genuinely excited about his five minutes showers situation. You probably hadn't had a five minute hot shower in his life before prison. Weirdly happy about the hot water. Here's what he thinks that the value of human life as you can imagine. Not much. He says, human life is not too long. It is cheaper than sausage. My lawyer, I would cut him open like a fish. I would have killed. Him like an insect, oh, the receive much pleasure from the process. A cut him open, the make bell south of his flesh. But as for remembering everyone killed who and win and wear that, I don't remember. I don't even care to remem- not surprised by his outlook here. Sound like he sounds. He sounds like he thought he had a chance to that appeal delusional like you're gonna get out after that, like law. So I kill out of people. I not kill them in too bad way. Come on, they push it whole. Mostly, I just opened door to next world. I should hotel doorman spend life in prison. I different kinds of doormen. As you might imagine. He doesn't have much use for religion, but it was surprisingly involved in politics as far as the citizen, which actually is pretty similar to chicken kilo chicken Tito loved being a member of the communist party. If you remember took it very seriously and but shoes can says I was baptized when I was three months old. The baptism took place, but I did not want it. I love that he talks about like when he was three months, you can think of anything. I remember being baby member thinking, I don't. I don't want this. I know of words yet now. Then he says, well, I do not think that someone is there. I can also say that I will not read the bible or right other by graffiti I have never prayed to God never will. This is a beautiful fairy tale for the week for those who sacrifice themselves to the states. Men as they age increasingly dream that someone is there who is all powerful. Well, what is it as voting all my thirty three years? I have never missed a chance to vote. That's pretty fucking weird. That last part? Yeah. If I can kill out people, you know what? I don't really care about anything like God, nothing, you know, whatever but voting. Yeah, no man's Mississippi duty. He also talked about dreams. All of these come all of these statements by the way, come from an interview. He did with the Russian newspaper to void in by the. The way regarding dreams petition says, I have nightmares a dog. It lived with me, longtime, she died. It was my fault. I tweeted it how to say notoriety, she could have been saved. It was a bad situation. It did left something in my subconscious. So all the shitty did and he feels guilty about maybe doing something that dog is. I don't know. Maybe maybe like he left it in place where it hurts self. Maybe somebody did something to it that he could've stopped, maybe heated something. No, he's upset and that left something in his subconscious, not not pushing person after person down a death whole so interesting to me that the chessboard killer probably not probably not a ideal babysitter, but possibly an excellent dog sitter. He also spoke about friendship. Kind of saying, first of all, what is a friend that is not someone who gives you one hundred rubles let you stay over. Before night in. Secondly, my principal to the grave and that's it, yes, I see more pleasure from killing people whom I knew personally, but I also found a way to get strangers in that is not easy there. Relatives said that they would never go somewhere with stranger, but to me, they are flying despite the difference in age, a young stood up Cota genus. One of his victims I was leaving the police office and I knew that everywhere was an ambush, but dia remained free says one of his last ones that he got away with, not sure what much of that had to do with friendship doesn't sound like you ever had difference. Certainly not as an adult. A friend is not someone who gives you a hundred rubles lets you stay at their place. I think that is what a friend is actually, and then just quickly starts talking about killing people just did not give fuck about people in general. He speaks a little about forgiveness. Does he feel any remorse? No, he says, no, I do not get it's. I do not regret it so much strength in time. Spent repent, do not repent. This is again adult formality. It will not change my sentence since I was young. I dreamed everything was different back then in it's all turned out the way I wanted to. I knew that they had nailed me when they started pressing me about twelve victims, but then they were all surprised that actually killed sixty. I watched show about to be on TV. Dennis, my classmate tells commoner when we learned that he had committed these crimes, it will the shock. All the said. I was rare case killing for sake of killing that is no motivation. Neither raise no sex, no religion. Even someone wrote put choose himself, doesn't know yet that the history of Kim analogy is changed. Did they didn't? The counselor someone still choose him that he will go down in history forever. So he definitely doesn't give a shit about having killed anyone. No regret, no remorse and obviously very proud of his notoriety. I feel like they should. They should bring back the death penalty. This guy make an exception. Like what good does it do to anyone to keep this guy live in a cell? He's loving it. He truly into mind. He's not being punished in his mind. He's a star, you know, some macabre celebrity. So why let him to continue to enjoy his life? Why not just find a well near the prison toss him down that hole and then randomly one more thing to send others are so ridiculous. He ends his interview talking about travel, like as if he doesn't realize he will never get out. Here's what he has to say. He says, I would like to live in Mexico. I, it is warm there. And Secondly, the forests maybe there I could live in different way if I was there and then the and then the reporter talking to him says it Mexico doesn't have force, and he replies, do you want to tell me? There are no jungles like FREDDY, Krueger said, elm street exists in every city at just for a second sound like he wasn't going to give creepy answer. Maybe it, it'd be different, you know, Mexico. And then he goes straight to elm street just exists. You never city described right to evil. Again, mobile change in Mexico. Maybe even put your skin. Maybe I think no vodka. Maybe during the Quila I stay away from parks in Wales. I hang on beach. I chill. I walk with Rangers on beach and then brush heads with tequila bottles at some say, that is what I do. I push notion, let's tied take body to see. I fucking put to skin. Maybe I know flat chess, but I play backgammon. I become backgammon killer time. Now for top five takeaways. Away. Number one. Alexander protrusion ak- the chessboard killer aka the beats apart maniac convicted of killing forty eight people between nineteen ninety two and two thousand six may have killed sixty people the number of squares he had marked off on that chessboard maybe sixty three. He did say sixty three at one point during the trial. So just a handful, maybe even just one square away from his sick goal of completing that chessboard number two. Another strange goal. The petition was to have official body count be higher than that of his idol on Chica -til the butcher Rostov who was convicted of killing fifty two people between nineteen seventy eight, nine hundred ninety four more than Pachulia skin. So at least he doesn't have the demented satisfaction of having the record while he rots in prison. Number three, strangely choose can may have never grown up to be a murderer at all. If he wouldn't have fallen off swing when he was a kid and scrambled egg, maybe if I hadn't hurt my head in a swing acted as a kid, I would spend less time talking about people like choose chicken number four, but Houston was the rare serial killer. Who didn't draw just kills or have an openly sexual element to them. He didn't torture his victims didn't rape them. He got away with his crimes because he killed quickly dispose of the bodies officially immediately didn't brag about them to anyone and didn't really have a consistent victim type or consistent victim. Look, Oni also got away because the police working in the area around position. We're fucking terrible and number five, new info while never ladies man before being caught. There isn't a single mention of him actually ever having a romantic relationship with anyone ever like Ed gain. He he may divergent, but unlike gain lot of women admirers now apparently around eighty women right to him in prison fans actual fan. We talked about this phenomenon before, so gross and one Siberian woman who works in children's shop has won a special place in his heart calling herself Natalya Pushkin as if they're already married. How great is that? She's working with kids. Yes. She sounds soup or moral sound, super-duper stable. That is just awesome that she's she's doing that, but you can admit it in an interview with another Russian newspaper in two thousand sixteen the, he'd actually proposed to her a few years earlier and she accepted and she is committed. She has a giant tattoo on her forearm of his face and of a chessboard my God. That is so fucked up. When you add the chessboard, you can't just claim your loving him. In spite of the murders that point, you are loving him because of the murders that is the symbol of his murders. Thank God. This maniac works at children, shop whatever the hell that is, by the way, leads the children. Shop. Shop sells, sells kids, hope not thank God. She will at least never get to petitions baby while they can write letters. The administrators of the prison have forbidden these two from ever having any sort of visitation. Away. Episode has been sucked, nother, Russian, murderer. Thank you spaces for picking another interesting topic. What a, what a fascinating murder robot that guy is right. Thanks again to the time. So team, the high priestess of the Carmody Bella camp. Jesse guardian of grammar donor Reverend Dr. Joe paisley time suck high priest, Alex Dugan the guy's ability, sir danger, brain space, losers emerge, wizards access apparel, Queen of the suck love of my life. Lindsey comments, big, thanks to bojangles research, superstar, Heather knowledge, ninja Rylander. Forget me some good research to get started with and getting a quick next week. The darkness continues this dark October with the strange tale of Catherine night. Just like the Alexander Pushkin tail Catherine night. Also spending life in prison without the possibility of parole also for murder in Australia, instead of Russia. Very different story, though. Cazar night, not a serial killer. She is the first astray in woman. To be sentenced life in prison without parole. She was convicted of murder, the murder of her partner, John Charles Thomas price in October two thousand one, but she did a wee bit more than just kill him night, stabbed price to death, skinned him, put his skin on a meat hook cooked his head and parts of his body with the intention of feeding him to his kids. Yeah, she snapped just a bit, you know, wanna find out. Why will tune in next Monday now, let's bounce on out today's time. Sucker updates. In times under up day time, sucker treatise Matthews writes with fantastic lost colony of Roanoke update. He writes, dear king of time suck. I've been a longtime listener, first-time electronic Mailer and hopefully soon to be spaces. I let me say that I cannot thank you. What you guys are doing. I can only imagine how much time you put an episode and it shows Helen, right? I wanted to write in about the Roanoke episode. Hopefully add a little bit more information that my field Denver canal chronology. The study of tree rings has contributed to the subject. One of utilities of tree rings is being able to examine pass droughts periods when we do not have data, basically when the tree does not grow in a given year, the ring is small, and this denotes a drought stall at all nineteen. Ninety eight published in science is a study published his examination of trees near Jamestown and determine the colony tried to settle the island in one of the most extreme droughts in eight hundred years. The abandonment of the town occurred during the driest seven year period and seven hundred seventy years. The authors go onto site. The drought is one of the reasons why it was so hard to settle the area during this period. A mentioned. The already strenuous tensions with American Indians during the period could have been made worse as they competed for limited food resources during this drought, just out these findings will be of interest to you in the. Of the curious. Also my girlfriend, I went to your show in Huntington beach is last week in both had a blast. I am a geography professor at a local university teaching one hundred level natural environment classes and upper level weather and climate Cazes classes. Give me an asked, at least once a semester about the earth being flat or Chem trails. At first, I was taken aback by these questions and slightly offended that I had to spend time with these topics, but now have fun with it and try to make it my mission to set student straight on these topics. I also have taken to incorporate in random made up tangents about topics in my classes. I love it. For example, today I had my class convinced that the invisible water vapor that we are all surrounded by harmful to their health. Of course, I set the record straight, but the humor was much appreciated. Yes, thank inspiration and keep up the amazing work. HALE Nimrod praise bojangles and Dan Lewis Athena treatise Massias. That is beautiful treatise. You sound like a wonderful professor. I would have loved to have had us a teacher. Thanks for sharing your knowledge with us. Thanks for sharing with your students is very. She added that drought info does out of that story. I feel like they had to have a either just died through a combination of disease starvation, battle with local tribes or the survivors, assimilated into local tribes. And I feel like the drought would have contributed to either one of those scenarios going down and good on you for having a sense of humor about flatter authors in the in the camp trail stuff. Thank you for teaching them the truth and the world needs more of you don't ever stop what you're doing. You wonderful meat sack. Okay. Got a little wacky doodle update from time sucker Chris Pritchard. He writes in saying, suck master on Rodney with a quick update on the origin of wackadoo. I use it recently in front of my mother who asked me where I got such an old word. I looked it up and wackadoo Bill is a nineteen nineties variation of wackadoo a nineteen fifties word probably comes from the nineteen thirty word wack. They all mean an eccentric or fanatical person, but apparently only wack means a crazy person. In fact, wackadoo appears to be the good natured version of wack job pointless. I know, but I thought you'd like it anyway. Your space, Chris, not pointless, Chris. Thank you until last week. I thought I'd come up with that word. Yeah, I did not invent wackadoo. I just thought I did which probably makes me bit of wackadoo bummed. I didn't think of it, but thank you for sharing more about its origin. Keep on sucking, sir. Got an axe update from David Hughes. Now helping answer my drunk as fuck ax men confusion over why it is so hard to kill someone with an axe day writes in saying. Greetings, lots of suck. So in reference to axes hatchets, I'm a fourth generation Arborist and logger. I'm also a collector of access during the drunk suck. You made reference to the inability of an axe to completely get through flesh. Well, access are made to cut down trees and not humans. In addition to that, I'd imagine most people back then is now did not care for their tools unless they were essential to their livelihood. There have been countless times I've been out and we'll sharpen my acts or saw during a job. The other thing is that swinging an axe takes a lot of skill and practice just like bats golf clubs. It is not an intuitive motion, so people that are not familiar with how to swing an axe will usually waste a lot of energy and have a poor hit. Hope that helps your axeman man, David shoes. Well, thank you x. men, David does help Oz picturing these people just getting picture-perfect act blows to. They're not because I split firewood with an axe many, many times growing up as a kid. So I I know a little bit swing an axe and that's why I'm assuming that it the same way. Yeah, they swing it straight out of some lumberjack one on one course, but now I see that as it makes sense. I just figured that heavy piece of metal, sharper, not put at the end of a long piece of wood was just going to do enough damage to smush skull, but I guess heads are a little harder than that. Thank you, David, and one last update, longtime, sucker, zoysia Holden writes with Lizzie Bordon update those rights. I wish I had a better way to start this message, which will be brief, I swear, but this is exactly how I feel about Lizzie Borden. Your fucking right. What the hell was feminist about her. She sounds like a soft pathetic winer with the world's worst case of Athabasca. Now I'm a feminist probably one of the loudest and most annoying feminist you'll ever meet. And damn, I am sick of pseudo feminists drooling all over chicks like Lizzie, just because she's a woman who acted unconventionally. You want to honor a rat Victorian woman. Try to be wells, Marie Curie merry wall Walston craft someone with a job which by the way you're right again as a privilege. White woman in America. She could definitely have found something. Again, the Lizzy reminds me of an old roommate. I had a trust fund self-styled intellectual who would scold me for not spending enough time with my cat because I worked by the way thanks for sucking these dry nuts for every week and try nuts. That's funny. Praise your light and dark world. Oh yeah. I was among those a little uncomfortable with the Jackson suck. I'm part Cherokee. So although I found it super interesting probably doomed from the start for me, but you know what I'm going to fucking do about that. Not religion. It wasn't for me. We can all stand to remember that. We're not all going to get psyched about the same things, and that's fine. You always pursue topics with an urge to find the funny in anything. And while that's a risky business, we need that in our lives. Why did his picture Tom Cruise scooting across the Florida sucks. So keep on sucking. And yeah, I lied about that being short. Daniela Safina will first off, I love you social Holden. I think you and I get along swimmingly. I appreciate your frankness. Thank you for. Some examples of feminist to really excited excited about strong meet sacks. Brilliant, meet sacks, and thanks for your candor about Andrew Jackson. Yeah. Now, for now for everyone might take on his life for sure. Now for everyone pissed off a lot of meat acts, but that's okay. You know if you do nothing but agree with your friends, you need to get new friends because you're not being challenged. You not being stimulated take that fucking bubbly living in smashed to shit. You brighten up my day without message zoysia and I hope I have your name right now. I know I messed up before. I know people mess it up a lot at, I know actress Xantia Mamat pronounces it differently. Than the correct polish Russian way, even though it spelled the same. So gave them my best. Thanks time. Suck ninety two. Next we all did. Let's all meet sacks trying to push down a well. This week don't go to secluded area of park with a stranger. Those aren't good ways to ensure that you are going to keep on. Second. Let's get seventy five, four consonants in this thing.