16 Episode results for "ali hassan"

NEW: Ali Hassan and Dave Merheje - We Ain't Terrorists

Welcome with Karim Kanji

53:16 min | 10 months ago

NEW: Ali Hassan and Dave Merheje - We Ain't Terrorists

"Dave. Can you hear me? I can hear you. You see me I can see. Can you, can you do all that stuff I can? I can hear I can see okay. I can I can't smell you. Sorry I, touch you. That's fine, is it? Do you need? The videos going up as a as a podcast video is not going up, but it helps me to engage. If all K okay because I. We keep our video. Just, let me know the audience. Go, Hey! Yeah Audio's audio's great okay perfect, man Kareem the beard, says seventy year old sage, but the hat says twenty year old Jurassic Park Fan trying to. Level it off, man, two different worlds top to bottom. Thank you, thanks guys for. Taking this time, I, really appreciate it. All! Thank you grow. Yeah Ali Hassan you. It's sunny outside, but you're in the West End. Did you get flooded out? No flooding that I heard about. Heavy heavy rains, heavy risk. Yeah! I was I just step out I. had the radio onto? Listen and. Apparently! There's if we go search on instagram. There's people in canoes. And some some guy's car floated away in the West End of Toronto Western wear. Black Creek and Ross a ship Kinda close to where I am best I was asking just GonNa Textile home for a second. Time I'll be like. Honey of the children floated away as the children. Should I wear headphones, BRO, or no? I just wear them so that I don't look like a ball last loser like you. Also you do that. Look and I'll do this slim. Does it doesn't matter like? Does it make the audio better or now? We can try. I'm I'm good. Good, okay. Yeah, yeah, you, you sound. You sound good so far Dave. You are in La. I am in Los Angeles, correct? How is that compared to New York? Like in what sense in in in Kovic since? Why would I was in your guy was in the. It was the height of it right? I. It was like the Hobbit so probably not as good I would say. I was in his good. We're sure. Are you as you're not. It seems that you were fearful in New York. You were like scared like legit scared. I was just taking the best precautions I like I like afraid I'll add anxiety of of obviously not contracting Coleman show I wasn't like shaking. Like I was still like enjoying my time in my apartment like I wasn't. Just anxiety but That was again. We know really no one still knows, but I mean. No one knew back then or a few months ago. How anything much about it I feel. That that they know anything now. And then here is just like you know just more space. You don't really run into a lot of people like you would have new. York I feel. Rowan about. This, this is not meant as disrespect but. Dave will feel anxiety on the best days, too. So I think in a strange way, Dave you're probably more prepared. For this kind of thing I met a friend today around ten AM. We went for a walk in the park together, and he said he never hoping Zion. His life and the pandemic has brought something out of him and the first thing. He has not seen his parents. He's in downtown Toronto. Their is not his elderly ailing parents. Fire Has Parkinson's disease father three or Or four times a week while he's not seen them since March and he goes I. Don't know man. My wife was like we need to go out candidate. We have to go I'm losing my mind, so he had to go, and he was on the patio and we were distant from people, but I'm watching. All these people around the sheet is starting to freak out so. I. Don't know in a way. Dave is better prepared than most of us. 'CAUSE exiled is like you've been rolling with anxiety since I. Don't know. You know your twenties or teens, maybe why? It kinda like the pandemic you know. Kinda, like all the tools you'll learn in. To get like, help your anxiety of like if you're OCD Kinda like you know, you're trying to are not raised them, but you trying to not do them so when the pandemic showed up and cove it you're. Like, those beliefs are like. Is it real doozy? I'm saying like all the things of washing your hands like fifty times. You like. I shouldn't be doing that in Kobe comes, and you're like man I should be watching my hands seventy. Gitai like me just doesn't reinforce your. It's like it box with your mind. Basically 'cause you're like. Wow, was what what's happening here like what you know the sanitizing. Groceries like a plays on your anxieties. She laid on him so people whenever facing. Zaidi before this is like I. Don't know it must. Take would probably like very I don't sucks for them in Allie. Said is not that I'm it's nothing. It's just like of dealt with it. So it's like okay. We're doing this again, but at another level. And the business of the both of you are in like you like live audiences is your bread and butter I know I know both of you have also. Done some stuff and television. We'll talk about that for sure but You know specifically not that. Everyone is sort of been impacted by this in different ways, but the both of you. You know the way you make monies by. Going in performing in front of live audiences. Solely, how how is that? I know you do some stuff with CBC. But how has that impacted? You know your state of mind. were. I mean properly fucked at the way to describe it, they were you know what? It's it's slowly coming back in weird ways, and you have to, and and I think this is an interesting conversation with Dave to have because. You Dave is not interested in zoom comedy shows. What I got into comedy for joy tonight. I connected with that in March and April it gets his domain. You're like this is all like. And as much as there is part of it, that sucks. You just try to find a way that your persona. Your comedy and your vibe can match you try to find a way where you can feel the most comfortable on the zoom shows, and now I'm doing a couple of drive in shows just for laughs. Driving Chosen Montreal at the end of the month I got invited to be part of that so now I have to do. Some zoom shows I need to get the words out. I need to remember the timing of some jokes. This is definitely not ideal. I know. How was psychos out there? Like a kind of like zoom more while you're a lunatic and you shouldn't be allowed in comedy clubs. Kidding may open, but in general it is all top when it's an adjustment and I think. It's it's taking time to figure out how to make this work for us I really love to. I know you're doing that. You're supposed to be on Torelli, but yeah. You're doing that thing later this month in Montreal. Excuse me this is going to be a big year. Yeah, you're probably. Right, but. But I'd be interested to get your thoughts on like. How do you perform in front of people in cars? That's that's. Like. Are Starting to do it. I think it's GonNa. Be Weird like I, think. I'M GONNA revert to my car personality. Somebody's GONNA hawk. It'd be like fuck you man. But meanwhile they were just honking like good joke. I'd be like I'm not used to. Not going to be used to. It's GonNa. Be a lot of what's your. Yeah, and so no one's going to know what to do with me and I'm not GonNa know what to do with them, but that's what it means to strange new world, but. you can't. There's no point in pining and longing for what was what was is isn't winning again. We don't know a lot of comics out. There think that their profits and they're like this is what's going to happen. This is what we need. This is how it's going to go down I'm like. Remember listening to you on anything. So I don't know. Why do you subject that none of us know anything about of course Surtee, Al Yeah Meeting the future not now now how to protect ourselves what we can do and you know, but a lot of people feel like they're they're. They're soothsayers and avoid voyeurs into the future I. Don't if anybody tells you. This is what's going to happen. I think you should suspicious immediately because I don't know how we know exactly what's going to happen. Completely unprecedented scenario. Dave, just finished watching season two of Romulus night. Nice Nice it is. It's not a comedy show anymore? It's like serious shit. It's like. They're a dare bitchy laugh at. But it is. It is some serious. Rami has knocked season two out of the park. Yeah I agree APP. I don't know I like that. It's not you know it i. like what I like what it is I, don't I don't? Like I. Don't know if it's a comedy anymore. I I don't know I think that's still to honest with you that you you know, you can watch it and take however feeling you take from it whether you're. You're like I think this is more serious you know. Or I think this is funny. So I think that's beautiful. Do not saying Atlanta's like that. Yeah! I don't know if it's set out I don't know personally infinity patio set it out to be. This thing is going to be like I just think it's. It's just oh, are the. To how people are going to receive it again? I don't know what's. His creative process obviously, but but as I was filming I was like Oh. This is much different than I. Season I think for the better. Yes. I think everything got elevated You know whether whether I was a part of the show or not. I would think that you know what I mean just like everyone's. Acting I feel like they're great like last season, but I think everyone kind of like. It just was on another level just. Reading the last, the last two episodes just floored me like went places. The second last episode went to a place that I did not. I have guessed what thieves is a touch on now. Not The old racist uncle who? Turned out to be gay like what where did that? From. I like how you give the spoiler. Dad this week this this. This TV shows we know forever. Berkeley. So that you don't ruin everything for. Yeah. Remedied even need to run. A year writing the show. Spoils. As you like it's been forever. I'm like no man in the May. We were like we're July's. Heads Point. Forever streaming world isn't. But no man I'm Guam at least you watched it dude! It's worse when somebody interviewing goes. Hey, man, it's a great show. How many episodes you watch! Not I saw the trailer. Would that happened to us once and I thought that was the funniest shit ever. Like the honesty, you gotta give them the points for that. This was unlike daytime last year was a press run in April. It was like a newscast knows news morning, check. Like I, don't know how the fuck like Romney kept it like. He's so professional about it I'll just like what did this. Why would you say that? Why. Why wouldn't you might as well just lied? I just saw the trailer Dude A. Love it my favorite. Kareem. David I, did WE? Terrorists are comedy to our West at every morning show, we will do always some wack ass thing. Is Always so weird. The whole morning for is so weird first of all, it's more minutes gone like this, but also every time it would be like. Next up. A Saskatoon. Teacher pleads guilty for child molestation, but I I'm. Dave Marash argue. A man. Pallet cleanser. Your things. Do you tell us a sports update? Like, it was just. Disgusting. Here Louis Bro. It's like not even cool is just like i. just think that whole format is hilarious aways like the whole news morning. Like this idea of like you. It's almost like the robotic and a half to be like you're like you're not getting. You're getting like you know. They can't be the full honest truth, but they're happy. Robots pattern the need. Happy Robots. Yeah, they're not gonNA. Pay Heavy metal, no first thing first thing in the morning. Guide so sorry I took away from your I. Think I ask a question? Sandbag your question. Go ahead, go ahead. No No, I was waiting for you. What I need to get your thoughts on Kanye West each of you. I you know to be honest with you. I, do not. Oh, I just don't care anymore. You know. His antics are like so many antics to keep up with them like a man. You know the I kind go in and out of listening to his music I. Listened to more of the old stuff. Yeah, it's like to me. It's like I, don't I? You exhausted me with your antics about that. I was just no word yet, so it's. Shifted Shenanigans. End Look to me. They are probably antics to you. They're like they're not to him. Probably I don't Wanna I'm not disrespecting him by saying antics. Just like don't know. Or I don't even care like you know. He's GONNA run for president. I'm like Sherman. The world's on fire. who like what it's like I don't I. DON'T WANNA put my energy in an ending anymore. If feels like with him like except for music if he puts out music, GONNA. Listen to it. Other than that I truly I truly don't. I'm like whatever man that is. itself is interesting though separating the art from the artist. James able to do that in cases on. Everybody's able to do that right? Donald Doing. It was tough when he was doing. The trump thing was tough there. It's because it's like. I remember college dropout was like so important like an essential. I loved I used to play. I think I had the CD and I used to drive across Detroit when I lived in Windsor to do open mics and comedy shows I got put it on, and it was almost like a soundtrack. It was like very motivating hills I was dope. He was like like the beats and everything about the vibe of that album was so big to me. I remember that moment on. Yes, so I it's. It's you know you get attached to these artists? So you're Kinda like so when like they don't really have a lineup with your views. You just kind of get frustrated, so it's hard to separate any like he doesn't have to not vote or like trump like I never. I. Don't have the same uses the all the time I like. Or anyone in general. It was just kind of fucked up. Where you're like damn, it dude. You may dark twisted fans. That's. What the fuck are you doing like it's? Interesting Cao's. You know one of the most insulting things that an entertainer or or an athlete in here is a man, just shut up and dance to shut up and dribble yea so incredibly offensive. because. It May. How come you? Dick headed your mother's? Forty years old with twenty dollars in your bank account. How come you have opinions about forty five things by Lebron James Yet. Smart man can have some opinions about a couple of different day. You know what I mean. It's reinvented. When you get the Kanye West M, and shut up and make music. It's like okay it. And it's not even Allie. It's like it's like I don't even like you can speak how he wants to speak. It was just like a thing of like like Danny. Because, you were like writing is wave and you're like all you got y. you gotta like this guy who I don't like like your immune. It's not even like I. Don't want him to not speak on politics and stuff. I think those kind of does when he was doing it in his music and re an an interview. It's just it didn't align with what you want it I like. You know what I'm saying, so it was. That's where my frustration was, but in the end. Who gives a fuck what I care or what I think? It's just like you know what I'm saying. It's like I'm not going to. A man if you don't know what he's saying, he says the new. Do you know what I'm saying to say? No for free to be like fuck you. Just feel. I. Times I love I love I love it though I'm not as close Davis you are, so you could. Wake. You give me a weight with your left I. Understand it God. Man I saw Kanye dependent Panam gains and that was it for me. I Guess Twenty Sixteen maybe. That go. I'm never gonNA. Let that go do what happened. I can't remember the name of the Canadian artist Serena Ryder Street. Her rider comes in great jobs. Yeah, big bull comes in. Delivers fantastic. Said pit bull delivers should get like one of those air horns. My GRANDPA cripple delivers. We'll get lot of hate, so that's why I think it's he's. US getting a ton of Haiti of back then within you watch this guy you're like many was in sync with his backup dancers. He Sang, perfectly gave a great amount of energy, and then Kenyon Carsoup to close it. It's just a triple triple billion and. He does exactly what they told him not to do. They don't use US our boards and don't go up past eight. He doesn't use their boards. He uses his own board soundboards. McGaw K. but don't go past eight. You'll blow. The speak of the speakers have these protective mechanisms? If they go to high to protect themselves, the turn off, the speakers will cut to self-preservation. Was He do full full everything folder like don't do that. Does it? Anyway blows the speakers turns on. The lights are just makes a huge spectacle, and he did it also that people people could be talking about him the next day house like look I know the game like half the Shit we do here is a real We see is real, but this is just ridiculous. It's like reindeer. You're corning lose. In. That feeling came back. I'm going to run for the president. United States you're according to loser. That's the baseline. He's a corny loser. And then also there's a there's a potential for damage. It makes it creates a a an arena where trump actually benefits from. That's real. Dangerous, but then I look at it like I, look at like when he says I want to run for president in America like M.. I Shaw like Deneen like like I am I. Am I shocked in America. Celebrity wants to. If anything. That's the normal for that. You know. New so that's why I that part. I'm like whatever dude? Yeah like yeah. You. Guys have talked a lot about your Your Your Dad's on on weeding terrorists. Anything Dave. You've even outside of that, show you've you've talked about your dead? I'm curious how your Dad's have. Have reacted over the past three four months. Being being in lockdown. Will my dad was was dead. He continued to be dead, So has A. Call that a reaction kind of neutral SORTA. Allie Allie House I was waiting for. These guys not going. GonNa just he's not going to just say hey, man. My father passed away. He's GonNa find a way to be like. Hey, man! My Dad's dead. Thanks to do basic research about you know what I had in. My life is Allie Allie couldn't let you just like yet to make the interviewer likes. I was. A man just by the way my dad's dead at the final way, not only to do a joke, but make you remember this for the rest of your life do. Did you guys hear that fit with. Bill Cosby and ability what what's that? What's that comedian that? Comedian. Norman. Did you hear that bit between McDonald and Bill Cosby Now? And I just watched this like you know because I've been watching a lot of a lot of McDonald and he was saying. He opened for Bill Cosby Norm MacDonald for Bill cosby one night. and. He was telling Bill Cosby that I'm I'm your fan might my dad's the biggest fan? And so bill gimmes number, so give A. Shit, my dad's. He didn't Tell Bill, but his dad had passed away already, so he just gave like a random number. Bill bill calls later on bill calls and doesn't manage a calls norm. Macdonald back and said. I think it gives a wrong number. Numbers right number. He's waiting for your call and norm. Macdonald never told bill that has passed away. That's such a norm on brand. Respond to it is. Not doing their research. On the alley. Joking, I'm joking. There's no. There's no reason for you to know that don't. But this play that his great you'd be wasn't there. Already is a bad time for. My Dad was a keen political observer, if not a participant. Whether. It was Pakistan or England or in toback in the province Quebec. Where I was raised, he was very much a civic minded socialists minded often voted for the end EPA, and then finally became liberal in his later years. just because he's like the. MVP losers don't stand a chance, I'm just GonNa vote for the vote. And you know some a supporter of the arts and supporter of us a teacher supporter of education all that so basically everything that is that the trump was pretty much against yeah or Doesn't doesn't have the the basic sense to to support or promote. That's what my dad stood for. So would have been a bad ugly John for my father for shift. Fair, Enough Dave. How's your dad been reacting to all this? Man, I don't know. He just taught he. He'll tell me he'll just be like watching CNN too much, so he'll when I was in new. York us Cam, telling me about the updates like it's bad there. He'll talk about trump. He goes disguised. faulk men in in in a in his accent. or He'll just tell me to like. Where Mass? What was funny is I had him on facetime. I was with Romney. Yousef and he loves Romney. Like. He's always at. He'll ask about him. He hugged him. So he goes to Romney on the vase on, he goes Amen Web to masks. Everyone else even in our family wear one man. For the talented. The towns again to. Get get to on. A Dora will. How did how did the two of you guys I meet? Dave Kane among Shia I think I met you in Montreal. At the comedy works I think Jeff's Joel has a guy. Who was a comedian? I don't think I can say is. The! I don't think if he does anymore. But Joshua was a guy who when Dave lived in. TORONTO, they used to run shows together so then I think Jeffrey's. I bathed come. We'll do a show now. I with Montreal. And so I had gotten in Jeff since he moved to. Montreal and Jeff Introduce the day I think. We just flew from there I think. Professionally I asked if I could host. We ate terrorists in these like. I guess you know very flattering, flattering way of Vulcan me walking me into the comedy. Commune Outlook Man I was. I was just having a good time. I think that I don't even like what I say. I guess. I was probably just like. You down if you're down down, yeah, okay, okay. That was the tone, but. Personally. We just started hanging and then I think the next time I met him I was like just stay at my buddies flakes my buddy June musician. You say that his place he he wrapped in his. Basement, studio, we. Ate, grilled cheese sandwiches together ahead of good times, not alley to be honest to be honest, even just in general like if I, if I thought you were whack like Skillset, wise, a Lotta Times I would not even tell someone like you know like. Hey, good job I just clock. That guy's good. That guy could do a good job. I I wasn't open of. Nina and maybe that's not a good thing, so long has a lot to do with your own insecurities, but that's a conversation. So I probably I knew you were good. I was just like I think. When you ask those again and to me, it wasn't like. It wasn't like a big deal. It's some I. Don't allow like I didn't hold it as like I'm like you know in an ego way of like Oh. You WanNa be on my show. Ever Oh, you're new, obviously a walk on stage and you're you're at the time. You were funny. You know what I mean. He's funny I. It's not GonNa I didn't think you were going to ruin the shell. Again do join join the team so low bar. He can walk onstage decently. Recently adopted a ruin the. Really Hot! Those those are hard to come by, are they? Yeah, yeah, you know that those are hard to come by. It's true. There's always some risk of the show that it ruins. How how long had you been doing the show Dave up until? Least started. Hosting it's I. Wanted I knew I think I started two, thousand, six or seven? And two, thousand, eight or nine, so you've been doing a year or two most. You've done one big show in A. Four Ajax was at the inaugural downtown Toronto. Sold out, and they added a second show, but it went. It was like the most. Lineup outside Yuk Yuks, downtown Toronto and at the time house, like like still like an amateur comic. I believe and I was like this is not so like you know. It was the most money I made in like one show. It was like I didn't expedient expected to sell out, it was an insect. Get a second show added. We were like. Even I think Mark Breslin at the time came upstairs he goes. We had to turn people away. For the first job decided to add a second show, but by then he had to get like eighty people away well, yeah, or something like that can't remember the numbers and we were just like. I remember being young and being like what when they handed me the money. I remember I didn't even I just add it like a guess. Blocking! And drove to Windsor I think the next day will my cousin. I just didn't know what to do. I went to my Parents House I. Just you know to do with I think it was like thousand callers. Shared! Somewhere for me. We were GONNA. Do it in. In Ottawa it like we're going to do it around the Yuck, Yuck is, but that's had a disagreement with the booker at the time and we never. We did do it in Ajax, but it didn't. I. Don't think it did as well. I don't think I forgot like the marketing I. Don't know how he say. The Booker at the time there was Middle Eastern and he thought he saw you heard about the show, and he brought it there, but it didn't. It didn't do as well as it was it was it was not it was Ajax it was. You're right. Sorry about that buddy. It just didn't do as well as the Toronto. Yes, those are the two you had done before you before we met up and then I just became the host for a bit, and that we would collect miscellaneous brown people along the way in the cities, performing it in it after a while we. Think the show. Just be me in day. I host Dave comes on on headlines and then last year he turned onto. It turned into host. Then I'm gonNA bring you on. And then I'll leave, and then I did that I bring him on, and then I'm about to leave and I think was Edmonton. Day Goes. Where are you going? To, be you? GotTa go with what I think he was feeling like. Don't leave me alone with these Allen I. No member. All we did Saskatoon I member and we had the we had your. Alley wasn't it wasn't really hosting US doing like thirty, so he was doing thirty minutes fought, and then I was doing a thirty or whatever right, but when he instituted. I think we were ripping and I just stayed. We stayed on. I stayed on. Are you stayed on? And we just did it a duo? And then we went to Calgary, and we did the same thing, and then admitted we did this I think he did ten minutes at the top. Yeah and it. was, it was gonna be me and there's going to be you. Come on. We would tell some stories about our travel, but in the end we just wound up staying together on stage for ninety minutes and. It was weird. We'd be just became a dual act very organically. No discussion about doing it that way to instill is the best one of the top five shows ever done in my life so that because that was the first time. You started riffing together. Nah that in the audience was just on fire themselves attuning. Hey, we're like man. Broadway theaters the best. The Guy who runs the Broadway Kirby does this festival is the best is his right hand. Man's any Matt, the best downstairs you'd go, there's a coffee filter. You open up the coffee filter. Their suit joints welcome to the Broadway theatre. You open the fridge. It's full of Beer Osborne. Is there like a green? Rome fit for artists? You know they really cheat you well, so you being respected, we get in the night before, so we spent the full twenty four hours in saskatoon, observing all kinds of weird shit, y'all the weather though it was. A man it was cold in like the sun in January only gets up late nine thirty into the Scott. Is Eight thirty nine. It's dark and it's called. You're like this is how people get jamming and depression is crazy member. The sorry, the I told you were gonNA. Tell them remember the poster. We saw the the most insane thing. We're just walking across the. Broadway Avenue and all that and see a poster with the word terrorist sign it and we all terrorists. That's school. No, it's another show how talking with terrorists what? is a different show with the word, so then on stage. We are like lenses men. There's another show. Happening right now. Talking with terrorists. As accessible, you understand how rare it is to have any show with the word terrorists who had to write and then are some giggling. The woman who was hosting that show was in our audience. We're like a year to steal from us. We got three nights. We only got one night. What are you? What are you trying to steal from While she's in the audience, people whose restaurants we aid in were in the audience is was like a real like a family feel it was amazing. It's by far again like I said it was the top prize. Done on. Yeah, we have a Fan April. Who is sort of followed us? Saints have been a huge supporter and That whole festival has been really kind to us as rolex like it's like. I'm so glad I got the share with you. Like, it was like I still. Didn't you know I still think about how there's like a? There's like a awesome photo to though we have I. don't know where I think. It's in my phone, but it's on the Internet future. It's a year standing and I'm my like I'm bent down and it was like shot. I think it. Yes, someone shot up from the graph. April even yeah, Oh okay and. It's so dope. The Not that Calgary and Edmonton, words a man. We just hit it like a high note. Right out. The Gate is Sitcom. The gods give you gifts. Sometimes you know, and they just they were. Gods out that night to spit out we. We did late forty minutes together before we started talking about material. It's just on the audience and about Saskatoon. You, didn't it was a lot of white people in the audience They were so with it like they were so like not like I felt like when we talked to him after that. White people will go to ethnic show and they'll just either. They'll ask them questions like you know what I mean like. They'll just come with some wack shit after you're like I'm like you should probably never came like at the engaged with you now after this, but these these guys. These people were member that they were on like one of the boss. Look twilight zone. Because you're going to saskatoon, why am forever will love? Saskatoon, it was none of the none of that. All Ali your from Pakistan I love Hamas you know none of that stuff. It was like she was not. By all was really really cool with they were. They were with it as they'd says the just. Fight, why did you guys decide to end it? I guess if they don't know that we terrorist yet. They're just never gonNA. Figure it out. You know they. They should be aware at this point. I just you know do I've done it for so long and not that I think I think I. Just I think myself an alley I feel are not passed it, I. Don't know that's a good word is just that. I don't feel the name for me. I originally did the name and I was like you know people I. Hear Era Middle Eastern people getting called terrorists, I would just hear it, and I go all May. Be Funny to do a show with that title in like Germany, and that was just as as a the idea in my head, but as I. You know time pass is. It's not like I. Don't want to say that. The title Got Hacky do that make like. Like I just was like I don't feel really attached to this as much anymore. I love working with Alli I. Think I think we both have grown and I, just personally just grown out of or lost like. Not Interest because I enjoyed getting on stage and recording the album and album. We had so much fun like I would get on stage again with Alli, do another show for sure but I think under that moniker idol title. I wanted to under that title I I just want. I think that's perfectly said even though it was like a meandering rig very tight, it's still perfectly said. You know when you start to sing. They restarted in the mid two, thousand, two thousand, you still in the shadows of. Of Nine Eleven. And nine eleven had a long shadow because the policies were just coming out in two, thousand, three, two, thousand, two, thousand and four that were connected the bureaucracy. You move slowly so some things like. You know you travel restrictions and other weird shapes, still in two, thousand, four, two, thousand, five were just becoming reality L.. Like after to the after nine eleven I was still able to travel freely, and then by two thousand, three, two, thousand, four, hundred, zero, having more trouble traffic. So it was it was something very very relevant when it started. And after a while you like I, don't want to be known as the person who not a terrorist or shits on terrorism. That should be obvious. She auden said I have no connection to that I should be obvious that it's not something I support you know especially a Ali Hassan is like a CNBC personality, but on the side bombmaker may be, it's not like it's clear that this is not something we connect with. The point was delivered. It was a good brand for a very long time. I think as you evolve as a comedian. There's other things you want to hit your your ride to. The matter more tool retie. It's like Allie to is like it's hard to for me why you know that it came out meandering. It's just like a heart. Put together in my mind and choosing the right words without like. Like? dissing something that I've been doing. You know when you say you outgrow it. It's just like you said it's like. It was almost it's not a timepiece, but our the emotions. I felt at the time, and then as you go I, think we've we've started other discussions and we've gone past that and we want to talk about other things, and also to is allies. Career is like you know he's doing his thing. It's like you know Keith can tour by himself and he should tour by himself. He should put that energy there as well and I WANNA put that. That energy there myself in investing myself. That was another reason shore think the last two years. We both proven that to ourselves as well and and Phil you know mid size small size for me mid-size for for for Dave and at theaters in the US. You can fill them on your all your own name as you say you should. It's time to stand on your own and not rely on a brand or whatever it is, you are the brand. Look you. Guys could have just stopped it, but he decided to do a final. Show. was that jest. For getting the recording out there. Or was it just gets together one last time and knock it out of the park. I mean you could. You could say your feeling if I just I love. I love this idea of. Legacy I'm older than they might think about legacy a lot. I think about what you leave. What is what what mark did you make on the world? What did you do you know so? The shows were great in. That is part of your legacy that to really cement something. Having filmed her to habit written. You don't like Muslim. interrupted. His show that I've been doing for the last four years. One of the proudest things for me is to have gotten the book. So Simon and Shuster The commissioner right Muslim interrupted in even if my kids are like man, that Guy Pretty quick to anger really had some issues that he never dealt with. A piece of Shit sometimes look this book. He left the legacy. He did something. What is mark on something? That's how I feel about terrorists filming it and capturing it like that you know this is part of our legacy man, and it should be remembered as something we did. Even though the jokes evolve, and we've evolved this people. We put something out there that no one could ever take away from this. I believe in that Earth. Strong Nice Alley. Those are all yeah I i. agree with everything Allie. Allie said and I think for me to was like we had such a fun time. We had such A. IT would be ashamed personally to not record it and I just thought we had the material you know as as a as a duo, and we had stories that we shared together on and off stage, so I was like you know. Let's put this together in Toronto. Let's cord it on Howland roar a label that mostly puts out I believe female Comedians, female comedians people of Color. It's just it's. It's the exact right label. Think that we should be with that. We should be around our our people especially now you know. Rather than be the tokenistic Brown guys on the label with mostly white people like you know, we're kind of among its label analysis door residents, all allison and I was speaking I was in the allison was in New York recording an album. I think for Bonnie McFarlane. out in New York so I was when we went for lunch and then I think i. A week later I brought the idea to Allie as like you know since we toward, let's record it and also I thought it'd be awesome to do a duo comedy. You don't have the two two comedians on, you know. Normally people just do themselves in record, and now might be a little bit different and I wanted to for for for me as well personally I. wanted it to time capsule like have it on your knee recording. Maybe you can make a record like an actual record in. And have it around me man, and then I can recall I can listen to it and just I still hearing it. I just remember that how fun that night was like. Even from the control always gets me of like how that? That intro is like our our chemistry in our energy together like a perfect. If anything else on that on that album that doesn't cement it that opening part cement. Say So. Yeah, it was such A. We got to see all our friends come out. Suppor and we've got to do it in a city that we love doing comedy. You'll have speak for myself. I'm pretty sure Allie of course of course so. Yeah so is there. Toronto or gone gone. Shit on the place that gave you your life. So Dave is they're going to be a physical record release or is? It could be digital well. No, it's going to go digital for sure on Friday on like hope, speeding platforms, but I just said this out loud now, so I'd have to talk. I'll talk to Ali and I. Do want to have like you know I know some connex have done it I. Think Arthur. Simeon did it and yeah. I'm interested in doing that. I think Ali would be too so sure. Sure Steph told is done that I'd probably ask them to see you know. How many should we prince? You know rather the full ten thousand out of the gate, and then I'm like honey. We need some space in the garage. some stuff. I gotTA WE GOTTA. We gotta get rid of our shirts that we have a box of. Admiral so my DVD's for eight years ago, those things. A lot of stuff take much space. Yeah, did you was it always planned to release it at this time? War was there because it's interesting because we've been talking. Around the world, but North American shore about race, and about race relations, and how we treat each other. Some curious if it was guys, time is never been better. To release this particular title while Dave, all was said to me, he goes man I'm not releasing southbound lentil. There's a pandemic and I'm civil strife in the end. With the black communities people can't general like man. We're it. Be waiting a long fucking time with this idiot and. Profit he watch dude five months from now like. I had one of those lamps. You know the old. We're. We're in a bunker I. T, and we had some random British people in the room. We didn't even know when I was like. It's GonNa Happen Dude. Never coming out because it seems like a lifetime ago. That you recorded it so seven, December and only December. Much, how you do time and distance but I feel like. Two days ago by EGO, fought moves been forty years. Shows out for fucking ages you may. Just snitched the entire season two because he thought around me, season two came out in nineteen, ninety, four or something I. Don't know your concept of time although skewed for. They can. Look at a calendar. Living in the same room since March Up Breath and look at calendars funded. Look at a calendar. satis nuts. I'm looking forward to this album. Very much because it was, it was a great night. It was it was. It was fantastic comedy. Even the openers that you guys had. We're. We're really really good. and. Then couple of months ago. You guys have released stuff on on instagram like some videos of the two of you in the park and stuff, yeah. That's hilarious. What what are you guys up to like in? Looking actively to work together and then your future. You moved away. With some distance between us, so it's GonNa be a little more difficult. But. I don't think. I. Don't think it's possible to to to sort of plan like future tours and stuff like that. All the dates I had for the spring of Twenty, twenty one. I've been pushed the fall twenty wants his. There's too much unpredictability there in UN's an. Unknown I think off on I. Think you've got a wreck is. So I ate on the. We can plan for anything like that, but I think he and I both have been at both had goals are still goals for. Getting back on stage I starting to write a new show that was connected to food, which is something I used to shop. And my goal was to be on the food network for many years, so I'm doing something that it's always needed to be done for sure I had to do this food show at some point, so I think we're working on our own personal projects, but there's no way they Mahajan I would work together again. Offer sure if we have we have. The chance comes for sure. That's my brother. So hundred percent that is awesome. Sorry to tell me what else are you? What else do you have coming up? In twenty twenty. The drive in shows that I already mentioned that one yet. Then there's also the drive in shows. That I mentioned that one more dimension Montreal, so did the right in. Should this I'm hosting? The Canada reads have been canceled in March and worship become by, but it's going to be in the twentieth to the twenty third of July. And then a few other various things here that have yet to be announced on the smallest scale, virtual events and and then I'm writing this book. Sort of a deadline in September, so we can have come out in September of next year and hopefully everything's cool in the fall of next year. Because sure you know, you want people out and about coming book signings you WANNA. Do shows actual book citing so. I'm basically just going to you know. EAT chips and do push ups until September twenty twenty. One And then hope for better. Better World when I come out of the bunker. Fair, Dave. What's happening with you? While you know interest, album, dude, July, ten all streaming platforms hundred percent. Get that I listen to it. Share it message us. Tell us how you feel. That's that's hundred. That's what I you know. I'm excited about and then A- podcast that I've been working out with co-hosts. feebles in an actual therapist, real professional therapist named Ben I'm. Working on for. For months and months we finally you know we're GONNA put it out hopefully. in July and we touch on topics in mental health. He! We have a professional on there. So this'll be embarrassed. Informative the ease there to guide us in that way, so it's called the beautifully anxious. There is an instagram handle on there, so you can go join, and beyond the lookout for actually love that name beautifully anxious is a great name, but I also love the fact that you had to say. He was a professional like four times. TIMES, I'd washable professional therapist, not the last guy who was a professional tattoo artists slash therapist turned out didn't really know that much about therapy. DISRAELI Walk Articles. That was a mistake, but this guy, actual credentials and everything will. We don't want anyone to be I I, didn't want to do a podcast where misinforming people, enfeeble, says well. My calls didn't want that, either, so an and we actually. As we recording I was learning a lot, so I would apply what he would talk about on there in my real life and through that. Odd Cast I started to see therapist through that his company so I. You know halfway through I think. Four or five episodes in I was like you know it's time for me to see a therapist, so it it did. It's done wonders for me personally in Mentally Azema, come out, and I'm the one you know. It's our podcast so I've always wanted to talk about these things I always wanted to to have an open discussion. Know you know. A lot of friends of mine family members, both through various a mental health issues and I think it's like when you start discussing it not just one one day of the year. You know how bell does that Bell Talk, which is fine I'm thinking like we have a through all Oh gosh. Gives me more mental health. Than any other fucking company this God, awful. Bro, Liangelo full of Shit Dave I don't want. Addiction only belt bell stinks. That's all lip service, but that show that you're doing giving your own commitment to therapy Anthony Bosa both the host, and then having a professional in their shows gonNa land hard and going to be helpful. to May many people I think Kareem when we talk about the evolve as Comedians as people. Yeah, we all start with the like Amen my Dick. FART jokes above, but there comes a time where you're like as a comedian with some some some level of following, there's some good I could do. I think this is a great example which particular. Thank you yeah I'm sure that's been really well. That is awesome. Listened guys. I am so appreciative of your time. Thank you so much for for spending the past hour with me. I really appreciate it and. We! Thank you, but also I want to say you know you give spoiler already, but look if you're going to watch, please watch season. Two of Romney on in Canada on craved Balas well stars. CREPE stars in an in Gaza. Hulu please just omit. Watch, season one as well if you habit for you know, also know the Kareem as soon as interviews over you are going to go in. Our album in just deliver every punch line of the jokes on the album. A few months before you do that, guys on the second joke ends. Or they're. His Dad was hiding in the closet. And what? It's a four minutes to get there. Buddy banks man. You let it breathe, but the album breeds. How many how many months and I give? December wait till Christmas and I going. To. Lead to. Thank you guys so much with them Thanksgiving take care. Role Right.

Dave. Allie Allie Toronto Montreal Saskatoon Ali Hassan Romney York instagram Kareem New York Toronto Allie David I Windsor president Ben I Bill Cosby I Shaw United States
Comedian Ali Hassan

Welcome with Karim Kanji

1:12:39 hr | 1 year ago

Comedian Ali Hassan

"Okay brand new headphones pretty shit quality. Police think it's a good good. They were like fourteen. Yeah Okay Nice. They made it happen. It happened and it was quite a while in the making apologized for that. That's all on me nowhere. He's not now now. Now Tell me a joke here comedian. You must have a joke at ready. A for audio. No I wanted to do people. Do you get that alert or have you ever got that a lot for sure so that we're fam family gatherings Sunday gatherings is more like Gatherings like here's a joke for you. That's different right like that's more like you think you're funny. I'm funny let me tell you something. That's more or less family whereas other people are trying to be a little bit of demeaning and they're trying to be like strangers or more like in a demeaning way like I'll be the judge of if you're funnier not give me a joke. Oh my God Joe. Oh my good school reunions or something like that. Yeah good well. We'll see oh shoot. I think might be cancelled. We have one in. It was may fifteen sixteen weekend. I don't think it's going to happen. But you're like you went to school out east Montreal Montreal Okay Okay. I was thinking like the the maritimes or something Born in New Brunswick until the age of two I was in New Brunswick. Don't thing about it how did you how did your family end up in New Brunswick in the first place. My Dad went from Pakistan to Leeds in England and warm leads to I guess scholarships teaching positions that kind of stuff. He only got into places in in north. America was in New Jersey. I believe Paterson New Jersey and one was Fredericton New Brunswick while he he was an English teacher and you wanted to wanted to teach English and and and get his PhD. And all that and I guess one family member was like Canada is friendlier or something like this Canada's The you know I always think about that. Like how different. Yeah Yeah exactly. Who would I been for sure? I wouldn't have been a comedian who I would have been surrounded by what might might vibes value with a bit. Even my dad my dad would have been a different person right so I wouldn't. How should yeah? So you've been at What we do in this week at CBC? You were doing the As it happened I was filling in on as it happens. I just got a tweet from somebody five minutes ago saying is there any show Ali? Hassan does not fill in on and There's no telling if that's a compliment oriented super annoyed with me. But they're sick of your voice. Yeah exactly exactly do you. Do you have to because as it happens is not obvious comedy. Show I dare. Does your voice changed. You have to approach it in a different way like all these different shows that you do. Yeah Yeah I would not have thought that that's a thing but laugh out loud is very different from Q. Is Very different from as it happens is very different from here and now here now is the drive home show in Toronto. I don't you know depending on where your listeners Trying Yeah Yeah. It's the most popular drive home show In in all of Toronto which is saying something you know. There's a lot of different radio stations. If people could June into big one several hundred thousand people listened and that one. I'm probably most myself. I'm literally the zero performance. Happening there But I'm like an octopus and could continuously to this person this person sheet from this personnel. We just got this cancel though this. It's it's high energy. There's a lot going on. It takes work to make it sound like it's just an average an average radio show calm and all that you know but the ducks are moving quickly. Under the water dexsa legs are were workout quickly. Under the laugh out loud has to be a bit of a performance has to be. It can't be. It can't be earnest you know. It's a comedy show Campanella guys. Thanks for tuning in. We're GONNA play some comedy you know. I'm not I'm not I can't be like jazz. Fan My gotTa be known to welcome to the shade has to be a little high. Energy has to be a little bit. Different is well. There's parts that are as it happens. The trickiest thing the trickiest as it happens is the hard left turns because at one point you're talking about what was the thing we did yesterday. some guy who lost his hard hat five years ago. He lost his And today's about Zam a guy who Who who got this thing called a toe in collect machine for goose poop and started cussing if the poop Zamboni yes and the company Zamboni called him and said Hey. You might not using our name associated with feces. So that's one story. And then the next story is about deaths from the corona virus in Italy so your energy is like constantly changing and listeners. Of coming all the time. Yeah yeah listeners. Come to expect it but for me it's like all my God. I went into this too happy. I should have been brought the energy down. You so yeah. It's very very interesting. How you got to wear. It's not like sometimes it's subtle. It's not always huge by is the same voice so besides doing as it happens. Your life has changed this past week or so it Both from Because you're a comedian. So there's gigs that you're always doing But then all stove is Scott cancelled. Yeah yeah everything is Dead By. Everything's Data I. There's no there's no pity party because I know people. In far worse conditions are so yeah yet with the exception of CBC working and that is not guaranteed by any means. You know. There's no idea when I'll be called in to fill in and make that guy on twitter annoyed again. I don't know when that's going to happen. But definitely all the comedy shows and comedy tours comedy for this stuff in July and August. That's been canceled because although sales at happened. Yeah 'cause they'll sales would have to happen now and people are not really buying stuff when they don't know what's going on you know three or four months from now and then there's another tour that I was going to be on September and October and it looks like that's GonNa hold as well because the clients had a sixty day window within two within which to cancel. Yeah and And that window is about twenty days from expiring and so within the next twenty days. They're probably going to be look. We just don't know what's going to be happening in the fall so we'll You know just on the one hand people might be like. We're GONNA need a laugh in the fall but if are also have some some people some people who know saying this is not even close to being over. We're not even at the worst of it. So yeah in a bit of a pickle you know. Yeah what are you GonNa? You're just not in charge of any of it. You know so and you and and and I'm guessing that based on your work with laugh out loud that you probably know tons of Comedians. That like you said you know. There's other people in worship. Oh yeah there's because I I know people who have two jobs one his standup comedy and the other is as a server in a restaurant or or cook in a restaurant. Both those are. They don't have position where they were able to accumulate enough to save they were. They were paycheck to paycheck. And it's not because of their own financial illiteracy or whatever it's just because of the opportunities they had in life and they were trying to make the most and what they had and they hadn't quite gotten around to like putting money aside just yet and So those guys like I'm more concerned for for for some of those friends that I have to be honest and it's not like you can plant for something like this right. Nobody plans for everybody. Stay at home. Don't talk to anybody for months. Exactly crazy you and me talking right now is just You don't even know what you're giving me. You don't even know what you're doing for me right now. It's great 'cause what I've been doing is I've been making a cooking videos. I was a chef for many years. So I'm cooking anyway. So let's short film. It now takes a different level of preparation and all this stuff and let me just film it so then at least you know the biggest complaint people always had about cooking. I just don't have the time I just don't have the time we got lots of time. Most people have time. Yeah There's that Combined with the fact that the grocery stores are the only places that are really open right now combined with the fact that Now more than ever we should be nourishing ourselves in positive ways you know build our immunity and stuff like that. Goddamn Zombie apocalypse out there. You know so All those things together and you know one of them skills. I have one of the few skills I have is cooking lenny. Start putting that is That is also an effort on my part to stay connected with community the community at large whatever community that might be might might little community. But it's not the same when it's coming in like. Hey Ali what do you do with how you make salary not taste shit? You know. That's that's not the same thing as you would meet talking. Otherwise got four kids wife. And that's that's wonderful but also A break where I could talk to somebody in the outside world this. Oh this is quite valuable to me. Oh well thank you. I mean you talking to me is is exciting to me. I wanted to ask you talked about cooking and from what I read about you. You got into comedy because of cooking. That's right so how right I I. I wanted to have a cooking show when I say I wanted to have a cooking show. That doesn't even quite cover it man. I had a singular focus in life and it was to be on the food network. Not even just any network. It was the Food Network Holy Grail. That's what I was going to do. That's all I wanted nothing else. Who's going to nothing else mattered? And so I started. Stand up comedy because I was like. Maybe I'll start you know getting up in front of audiences. I'll treat the audience. They're a studio audience. I'll build my might my confidence in front of a group of people make jokes about food. You know it was all about food. Everything served that. Yeah and and that's what I wanted and then and then as soon as I started doing comedy I got I got bit by that bug so to speak and I And that was that was all she wrote. I mean the flirting with production companies continued for a decade way where I was on the doorstep of getting a show so many times but it just it never panned out and Maybe that's for the best comedy has given me a ton although I probably have a J if I was on the food network right now I'd probably have a job but people are turning to the food network in large numbers right. Yeah so I mean both comedy. The both of those things that you've done in do are two things that that I can do. And so on the cooking side dish I made the other. I mean I don't even know how to pronounce what the Heck animate some Allu- or Newsday a Rogan Josh Carey in it which I thought was quite unnecessary looking for that. That's a bit much but I have no clue the weird thing was is. I was just looking for curry paste but then I saw like the only reason I remember. Rogan Josh is because of Joe Rogan. I look at Joe Joe Rogan curry paste at so. I founded so quickly at the grocery store the other day but cooking from me so I never went out of town for school and so my wife insists because of that. That's why I don't know how to cook. Because they never had to fend for myself. You know I went to school at York. University was an hour and a half commute and I would. Just come home and you know. Mum's cooking would be there. Whatever it was and And so there's been times in my life where I've tried to cook And I don't have so time is a thing and I can understand that but there's also like the patients of an understanding like what you need. Do like my wife saw what I made because now we need to more. We need to add more more of Joe Rogan curry paste. This is this. This was in her words. She goes to this for white people. We need to add more more for the Indian for the Indian tongue right. She's India's. Your background is Indian as well. Yeah both of us. Yeah Okay Yeah that goes neither of US cook not. You're just both getting into it. No I don't Cook. She does she does she. Does she was coming from a place of knowledge and taking a crap on your Saga Lou. Attempts that's right that's right so like this week. It's like everybody's GonNa Cook. I'm like what am I going to cook? I'll make like eggs an exit toast or something like that and then comedy I've been to like every time I go to New York and outside of this year. Well I did go to New York this year by Gorlic every year for work and I always end up going at least three three nights. I'll go to the comedy cellar. Yeah and of just started going to comedy shows in Toronto And I just love going to comedy shows in a behind this thing in the back of my mind that maybe I'll do like an open mic just once in my life. Just go up there do it. And it's over you know it's a bucket list for me but there's that fear of of just being what I would consider like you're you're naked on stage Looking for people's approval of what you're GONNA say sure. That's the that's the beauty and the horror of standup up comedy. There's no You know this is not like Improv or sketch. There's no yeah SOM- all there's no people to lean on this issue in the might and that's you either find super exciting and challenging and Yeah like something you WanNa do or you see that and you'll why would you? That's insane. Yeah you must have had like a strong desire for this cooking. Show to put yourself in. That position was a I did. There's no doubt about that but also I had for the the few years prior to To that day that I got on stage I would have been like April. Two thousand six prior to that. I was hosting weddings. Couple of weddings. A year friends would ask me. My cousin asked me to host. The wedding and Indian. Pakistani weddings are talking about four hundred five hundred people and I'm hosting these weddings and I'm finding myself getting less and less nervous and I'm treating them like my own sort of comedy show. I'm feeling like the Maestro up there and I think I can do this. I was I was less fearful because of that but then that night at the comedy the night I started the first day I was actually a I was pretty pretty nervous. It's a very common story but I did like A. I did a six minutes set in like three and a half minutes. I just went fast and every time people laugh that was like what is that noise. What's happening right now? It's just so much more intimate in a small comedy club. The comedy works was similar to the seller. Small low ceilings brick walls. It's like it's different. You know it's like people are there to see comedy this. Is You know I can fail in front of Supportive. Family and friends were there for a wedding. Fraud gathered that show. I remember after I got off stage. My knees almost just like buckle as I stepped offstage. My knees just went. Oh what did you just do what it was? It was a hell of a thrill. Did you WANNA go back right away like tomorrow night or next week? I Well this is very common with me and I always going to something hard or or not at all. Either I right now. I'm struggling with. I'm struggling with movie I WANNA I want to edit these videos as I'm filming at home these kinds of cooking videos and I when you said What what did you say you said? You didn't say you don't have the interest but you said something about cooking you don't have the I don't have the patience the patient Haitian so. That's where I'm at I. I also don't have the inclination but I also don't have the patience. I'm like I'll get somebody else to do it but now it's such a personal thing and like I should really learn this but I have the sheets for for making a video in stringing different things together my kids watch these youtubers and it's like a lot of moving parts man. There's a lot of like audio beds and clips and lot of different you know sliding in graphics and sliding in all kinds of different clips and other you know picture in picture sort of regional inserts and. I'm like this is a lot is what I would love for. Mind to look like but it's not going to for a long time. He and It's my own fault for not not ever doing it myself. You know when you say. Let somebody else do it. Just always been a believer in that but then but then sometimes you get overcome with this source of great guilt. And that's also what's happening in the house like being being just sort of like a handyman around the house. Yeah I'm all like I will pay somebody to do this work and then somebody goes. You know if you do it yourself. You can save three hundred bucks. I'm like I don't care about the three hundred I care about not having to be on my hands and knees doing grout in my In my shower or whatever the thing is you know. Yeah Yeah no. I did the same thing sky. The most useless handyman. You've ever seen because of the years of thinking that so you must do use that APP Jiffy. I don't know I'm gonNA write this down. I don't know no I don't use anything I want. I'm okay I'll I'll I'll send you or send you also there's this. There's this APP called Jiffy to Canadian APP and Literally the same thing I did. We had this grout in the bathroom. Ya I made that up. I mean but we do have to do that and I went on this APP an and I. This is what I needed done. And so you know you put in what you need done in your house you put in when you want it done and then the APP. Find Somebody for you okay. and that person and then you pay a flat fee for like an hour. That person comes in. They do the job and they're out you don't have to like tip them nothing. They don't bother you they don't you know they're not like a car mechanic saying aw there's fifteen other things that's wrong with your bathroom right okay. That's Hillary's and out and I'm I am the same way their stuff that I I don't know how to do this and I'll get someone else to do it. And even editing like these podcasts. Do Yeah so I started a new podcast at the beginning of this year called. Welcome to the music. And I've got a CO host for that and I am so lucky that my co host. He does the editing and he'll add in the music and play around with the sound levels and everything Because that's again I don't have that brain capacity Or even the interest to look after that stuff. I rather you know. Sit Down Whether it's skype or you know in a in a booth or in a restaurant or whatever it is and just chat with somebody and recorded and say okay here. I'M GONNA give this to the world and if somebody wants to clean it up by all means clean it up but let's get it out there you know Another thing I have in common with you. Itching shingles man great thing to have in common with each other. No but you had shingles on your face I had shingles on my forehead yet on your four and I consider myself lucky. Where did you did you on your back? Mine was yeah like the back front. Sorta thing while I'll tell you why you consider myself lucky because I have a certain level of vanity where I was like what is this. I gotta go get this fixing and I was told that I came in early enough that it wasn't too bad yet but it's definitely Shingles it still hurt like hell. I I watched my dad with with the shingles on his back and his his side's at every time he coughed. Yeah Or somebody made him laugh. He was on the phone. He's like don't you make me laugh? You son of a bitch like really really painful sit. He couldn't sleep properly coughing. Or whatever it was I didn't have that And I also went quickly if you had it on your back. I had it and I thought I'd gone to. This was at the beginning of the of whatever year it was maybe three years ago And had gone and I said okay. So it's the end of the early me go to the dentist a bunch of times. Let me go to you know. Get get bunch of massages you know because you want to take advantage of all your health benefits We initials in twenty twenty. No this was back maybe twenty seventeen two thousand eighteen so not so long ago and again I had heard of shingles but it was like an old person's disease like this. This doesn't happen till the kids like us right. And so exactly that was the whole thing. The auditors were shingles me and then the other one was that it's called herpes zoster. Herpes me more loyal than than this Larry. They really need a rebrand on that name. Very very unfortunate. That has nothing to do with the other stuff that was I used to. I got about five minutes on stage. Thanks to shingles when the doctor reassured me in herpes zoster housing herpes. He goes it. It's nothing to do with her BS. I go then. Why call it thin writing anything? We're other all the other names taken. What are you doing? This is ridiculous. That is crazy like did you. I guess you took medication. And everything for it. Yeah I did yeah I was all. That was an early self-isolation case actually if I think I was I was lucky enough to be in Montreal. At time I was just sort of my wife when Toronto was can you not come back? I kinda newlyweds here. We should be spending time she goes. We don't really need that kids. Don't need that right now because highly infectious in the first few days or week or whatever. It is right okay. Yeah so I was. I was Corentin. I was quarantined in my parents basement in Montreal away from my wife and kids in Toronto. Wow so when I got it I I think I was like a few days into it and I. I thought I've got some sort of a rash Maybe when the person was massaging me or something maybe the oil they used or whatever And then it was. My boss told me so you have Sounds like you have shingles. I said what I Gordon Doctors. The Doctor Says Yep you've got shingles. Do you need any pain medication. I'm going well it it it just more than it hurts so no And so I was supposed to go to a scout camp because I'm a scout leader. I didn't go there and then I think two days later I'm in like extreme pain And was like you said you can't get up outta bed. You just want to lie down and and I couldn't get a doctor's prescription for like tylenol. Six or whatever it was that he was going to prescribe so now. This is back in the day before now. Part is legal And you know I'm I'm not like some other guys right can figure out where to get this stuff. I call my brother lives in. Whitby and I'm at scarred by says come get me. We need to go somewhere and get some gumy's here and so he's laughing on the phone. Could make one of the most straight edge guys that he knows yes and so we we end up going finding a place on the Danforth getting some Gumy's and I was converted right then and there is that right all my goodness. I'm since then telling you the funniest thing is that you're a scout leader looking for dummies. It just it's really doesn't and also you're a scout leader and you don't do the grout in your own basement scouts on its on. Its head for me. Owed Dude I. I know like just like three knots. Maybe nuts that's it. That's you know I'm not. Yeah I'm not like these other guys that know like every single and what it's used for you know I'll I'll go gator on a pedestal. Do maybe this is a mistake. I should I hear. I hear scout leader. I think this is the guy who's going to lead us through Zombie Apocalypse. He's going able to skin animals alive. Cook them he's going to be able to fell trees and create fires. And there's none of that I can. I can make a fire. I can canoe. I can throw up a tent I can hike for for weeks on end but you asked me to. I can cook. I can cook at Camp. Camp cooking is very different than home cooking. But you asked me to make a not. You asked me to build a house order. Yeah no believable. You asked me J. U. Believable was. That's what I would. You've turned with a bunch of Comedians. Yeah I WANNA ask you about Russell Peters Because he's from like from where I'm sitting in for where. He's like huge massive Godfather man but he's not like he's unknown. It seems like in the in the world of comedy or is he. I don't think you could call him unknown anymore. Maybe a couple of years ago. He was on March Mary. This podcast. You Know W. T. APP is a huge podcast. I remember Marc Maron. Kind of in a you know because when you know Russell it's all you know you just you just know Russell you assume everybody else knows. Rosso now the same year a buddy of mine from Chicago. He brought his his white girlfriend. Up FROM CHICAGO TO TORONTO. Yes she was a hairdresser and she loves comedy and she didn't know Russell Peters was and I got sick love comedy. She had no idea she was all. I should look him up and she knew like ten comedians she. She did know college she did like I was like. Oh that's so weird that she wouldn't if that's an aberration but then Russell was on a Merrin. Marc Maron Goes Dude. Who who are you? Who are you a noble? You are below. Where did you come from? How do you like what you saw? I never hear about you. I don't know you and yet I understand that you you sold out the O two arena. Then you sold out Madison Square Garden twice like I don't understand. How have I not seen you and I do not know you? Yeah so then I was like oh as crazy and then I realized that psych. It's kind of this massive cult following like it doesn't feel fair to call it a cult following when he's selling out arenas and he's there but in effect that's what it is and I mean. Tell me a little bit about Russell that maybe other people don't know how Russell is you know. I'll tell you something I'll tell you A. He's actually he'll him mess with. He loves to mess with people. He loves Thomas Oh he he comes off like a bit of a brick like When we were in Jordan Amman. He does this thing. I'm sure this is somebody who does all the time. Where a you come off stage as a young comedian. You're hoping that somebody tells you that was great up there You know that that you did a good job so then You know your backstage and he'll he'll either. You're walking around backstage. She'll be like. Hey Kid I'm not the same age almost as you come here. Yeah Yeah you'll be like You did great up there. That was a great set Russell. I haven't gone yet. I'm nasty. I'm sure you'll do well. You know what I mean. Like he doesn't say or he'll I don't know he'll he'll he's always mess with you backstage. Something just goofing around like that being a dick but he's He you know there is a guy that I met a few years ago on the Danforth. I think he had a restaurant of the Danforth. His wife and his child died in some terrible car accident and Russell knew him and Russell was dude. Forget about everything. Come on tour with me for six months. Just come unto you. Just forget about everything no expenses. I'll take care of you bubble. You know and from what I understood. Russell didn't know him that. Well but Russell is that type of guy to to really help out people you know when I tell people that people go what people should be talking about that matter when things Russell's at Dick so it was like a guy who likes the best would be based the bus people's balls. He met my wife many many years ago and he looked at her and she had like a Bob. Haircut he goes. Your head looks like a doorbell. Ding Dong he's always with my wife does not like recipe tres. Like I kind of burst. Oppression is at what does that. What does that but I think he's a very good guy. I think he's a generous dude and I think he's He's the OJEA men and I go with respect to people who like laid the laid the groundwork and laid the foundation. Yeah yeah another another guy whose name comes up And that's where I saw you In Toronto this is Dave Marash. A lot of people call him like. He's like the originals. The originals as well had on your show year I had a year ago this week like last March break. When we were allowed to congregate get together and hang out when did you. When did you guys I mean and hook up and start doing stuff together. Yeah he's one of my closest friends. He's become my brother and and it just came out of like he came to Montreal to the comedy. Works my my Home Club. There and he was just site Just a good dude. He was just you know he he. I don't think he'd even seen me do comedy. And as I came in. If you need a host for this show I'd love to do it. I think what happened was. He came for a Thursday Friday Saturday and then he was doing a show on the Sunday with a guy. Jeff Shwe another friend of ours was a comedian and they were Valentine's love show and I was like if you guys need post for Sunday just let me know and Dave was like Yemen. All right go like he just. He didn't really have a nobody. You know he was just like I don't care what. He was like really focused on improving his own comedy so he wasn't like. I got to see what disguise like I as a host. I don't really know him. You just give me a chance like that. And it was a bit and I was hosting the the we in terrorist show that he had started back then. Ten twelve years ago and then we started doing some touring around Ontario around Quebec. We were touring. The show called we in terrorist. It became really fun and being on the road with this guy. Meeting his family was was just a a highlight and he stayed with me. And he's you know he's uncle Dave to my kids and wow watching his his struggles and his His assent has been Has Been One of my life's greatest joys. Actually yeah I remember. See Him on. MR D. Yeah when when he when he first started out. I can't remember the second third last season or whatever it was and it was like this kid is funny. This is really really good And then somebody shared. I think I don't know an album. Whatever he did at Some Toronto location and it was the funniest thing I've ever seen. And so you have been a fan. I Love I love the. He's got a bit part but that shows on on Hulu Ramey Well actually severe. They just they just wrapped on season. Two on his part is bigger. He takes more of the really do ya Ya. How but her Salah a lead joined the cast this year too so he was working with him. It's it's absolutely amazing to see what this guy's been able to do. You know his his just his reach keeps getting bigger and bigger. I don't know if you remember the show blossom ever remember that Sharia Joey Loss Miam- B. I knew we were last year January. We were doing. We interests in Calgary and were staying in an Airbnb in Calgary and I'm in the bedroom. He's out in the Living Room and I just hear Holy Shit and I'm like what's up. He goes. Do check this out and it was. It was Miam- Bialik from loss of loss. Message him she's also been on What's that show the most popular show the nerds? Oh Ya oh my goodness I talk Big Bang theory big. Thanks Mary Jeff's so she's also been on Big Bang theory so she continues to be a working actor. She sent him a direct message. Saying your comedy. Because he had a Netflix. Half hour she said. Your comedy is some of the most amazing crazy things I don't know if you know me I'm also performed but I thought your your comedy special was just fantastic in the message you to tell you that. Like wool dude. You'll made day after Ronson message. Big Thing I've been there for a number of his big moments in it. It really brings me a lot of joy. Yeah he's he's got like his style like that net flicks bit that he does like. How like okay. So you're how do you rehearse? How do you create that? Because it seems so spontaneous rather that is that is years in the making that is yams in the Megan. The one fellow comedian told me this a bunch of years ago six years ago. Eight years this Guy Day. Dave to sonus Albanian Canadian Montreal. He says to me he goes. I loved Abraham Dave rehashes guy who if the if all the comics are doing badly in the room is terrible. You send in Dave and all of a sudden he lights the place up just great but also if everybody is doing well and the room is hot you send Dave in there and he just kills the room and nobody knows what happened. And here's the story goes. He's always like meant. But that Guy Dave because Dave knows he was Kinda like that he has such a deep energy from everybody right and he wanted to have his own unique voice in his own energy. That's a big part of the comedic process. You WanNa have aren't very you up there but It took time it took time and took him really working on himself and discovering his voice and seeing how he can use it in different situations and see how he can be that guy who always always kills and he's got a pretty good rate like he's he's generally doing very very well on stage and not a lot to say that that they're always killing. I went to see him at a barbershop. Okay Heck's I don't carry wearing Toronto. It was what was literally a barbershop during the day. And I believe it turned into a bar. I think it's the in the junction. If it's the same one that I know about I think it's on Dundas West but I might be wrong. That's one of them that wanted to do that. Show yes so it was Was Is it. Seema is a very. That's right yeah. He was there Another guy whose name can't remember. Could it have been Patrick Hickey? Yes yes and then yeah and then I think it was this dude. I just remember but he had a white do the mustache. He makes his look jess. Jerry Jared Jared Jared Campbell. Yes yes jared. Yeah and did he tell you about this show? I know all these people you're talking about because these are close by these the the it was the funniest thing so I don't know maybe twenty thirty people in this place mall obviously small place and obviously looks. You know there's people that live upstairs and so there was one Thai so so Dave's Dave and somebody opens the door as excuse me you're making a lot of noise. Can you turn it into energy is it was the funniest thing? Dave just riff on that we'll heckle. Yeah Yeah Yeah. His ripping is the best. And when Patrick was on right before Dave Yeah Pat. Patrick is making a joke about just making a joke about like a like a a retarded person you use the word retard. Yeah I know some people that yeah but but when I'm in a comedy show you know to me I understand that all everything's off you know everything is is it okay. If she can make it funny I mean that's just me I can understand right. Not himself doesn't do that anymore. For too many complaints over the years we all interesting fucking. Yeah Yeah and so. There was literally a girl in the front row. That was so mad and so angry and she walked out but it went on for like ten minutes and then when Dave came on. Does he goes. He goes men. Men these These dorito chips are retarded. Like he's like I'm not even talking about a human being in this whole thing right now. Dave came on eight K. Motte and Dave because there was an interruption in the show sorta thing yeah he just went on and on and it was the funniest thing just just to see that energy and him just it was similar to At your last show the we terrorist. I think it was just riffing off of I think trump he was riffing off of anyway so and it was just like seems right off the cuff when he was angry. With Don Cherry. Y'All Harry's that's right that's right. Yeah and it's just so funny when he when he has that energy. Yeah that's the best. Yeah when did you find out that you didn't have to come up with a new joke? Every time you went on stage that you continue to work on the same material iphone that odor very very early on that yet. That's Yeah that's usually should know that early on. I did not but I think it was. Maybe my third or fourth time going on stage in some some Guy Guy Carl. I still remember who he is. Comedian was like. Hey you're going on tonight and I said I am man but I'm sorry it's it's GonNa be the same material and this veteran comedian. Scott Falconbridge is still very much performs and tours he walks by me doesn't even look at me just walked by because never apologized for your material and then kept walking as no no. No I was just saying I am. He was gone there was he didn't care to hear anything from me. He just wanted to tell me. Yeah brought apologized for your material and I told somebody that story. And they're like him and the whole name of the game is repetition. You're not gonNA get good. You know like the idea is to know your jokes and your bids inside out and know them in a way where you can start the joke. Somebody can heckle. You can handle them. Take care of that. Go right back into the joke finish. The job can still kill the joke. Know what I mean. There's like there's no it's just seamless. It's absolutely seamless and you can dip in and out of your jokes and you gotTa know your material that way. You know you're yourself you've got to know it. So well saying that only comes from repetition and. When do you know that? Okay let's move. Let's create another show another line another another bit. Well it's not about knowing for me. I can't speak for all comics in their process. But it's like sometimes you're just you're like a fountain. You're just a well wellspring of hot. I got to work down there. Solta WANNA work on and then months go by men. I haven't written a new joke. I got nothing like you went to whatever. It is absolute comedy in the Ottawa in January. Now it's August and you're going back to do forty five minutes again at absolute comedy and auto on your like Jesus. I haven't. I'm not even giving these guys like four minutes of fresh material. It's just a reset and some people are okay with that. Some people like that's my set the set in you that that that's the whole job. I don't like that. I like to like continuously be working but there are times where you just life gets in the way and it's like no more. There's no new material you're not particularly inspired or you're not challenging yourself or whatever it is it just it happens it happens to everybody where comic. Sir just sick of their own voice and like out gotta gotTa rights material and some people sit and write. I don't do that as much I to be. Perfectly honest might my best jokes. My favorite jokes have come to me when I've been doing vacuuming lawn mowing in the shower. These ideas when you free your mind everything. While you're doing something brainless I find. That's often when something comes to whether it's an idea for a bid or an idea per story or something you can write about or so. It's it's really amazing how that happens and is good. It makes me back you more than I. Normally only Orson very clean house. I can get a joke. Is How many chances do you give a joke like? So if you go into okay I think you have a joke. You go on stage. You tell it doesn't go as well as you think. Do Scrap right away or did you continue to work on it. How many chances do you give it? It's that that the answer to that is kind of like a moving a moving target type of thing you know you. Sometimes you do a joke and you're like I'M GONNA go. He's got WANNA take a risk here. Take a riskier. I'm not sure about the joke. And you go and you do it. And the crowd does not like it. You ask route. I never cared for that joke anyway. And they never sees the light of day ever again. Okay I I have a joke that I can tell you exactly that my mother once we were in Pakistan and I was trying to make the joke so it wasn't in Pakistan necessarily but we are once and I am whoever the architect was who built this house. Forgive had had the bathroom right behind Reverend Wright inside the dining room like you go to the bathroom and the owner of the bathroom. And you're in the dining room and I'm in Pakistan and my stomach is not feeling good at all you know. I've eaten all the wrong things and I'm like an bad shape and I'm just like sweating trying to hold it in my mother's like just cold. The bathroom goal in nine. Look I don't eat would idiot built this house. I'M GONNA walk in on dinner. They're gonNa hear me from dinner. Then I'm GONNA walk in. The door is going to open. It's going to be terrible smell and my mother goes wah what smell you know you. Just take the soul of you. Wash your hands with soap and the soap smell will be. We'll go in the bathroom and I was like. Are you even my mom? Do you know what I hear you. So what was I gonNa Take Care of this? It's basically a glorified shit joke. I have a bunch of eggs on it but to be honest. I don't WanNa do glorified shit jobs. I don't WanNa do it but I found it a funny story and I was like I'm not trying to bring that to to the full. I did it it didn't work and I'm like you know what you're right. Not like that joke. I don't either and that's all it's never going to tell you that it's that one time was done. And you know even even after I tell that jared Campbell the same guys you were mentioning Jarrett's who came up to me and he goes You know you could do that. He even gave me attack. Here's something you could do. You could say this and even then again never have do a joke again ugly times. A joke doesn't work but you stick to it so stubbornly so stubbornly you're like not. I'm going to make this work and it's a combination of finding out. Maybe you got to shrink it. Maybe you've got to give context. Maybe you gotta be funnier quicker. Maybe make it more relatable. There's so many things that could be the reason for why you're joke is not working especially since my jokes are a little longer. It's not just a one liner. One liner does work. You're like okay. That's not. That's not a good joke but for me to minute. Joke about the cottage. I'm going make this. I'm GonNa make this thing saying somehow have got to turn it into something and so you stick to it stubbornly. Sometimes sometimes you do the joke commandment changed nothing but maybe on stage. Something will come to me. Maybe somebody will interrupt me and say something that will give me the idea who knows and then you do the joke. Nobody directs nothing. Changes do the same way again. It doesn't work a dammit. I gotTA FIGURE OUT. I got to figure this out. This is a bit this has got to be a bit so sometimes it's unsafe sometimes. It's months you stick with something and it's now nowhere. Yeah Yeah. It depends on comedians individual level of arms stubborn. Sure and percents one of the things I've always wondered about. Is You know obviously in Canada. We get tons of American TV shows all the late night shows. Everybody is making fun of trump. Or you know whether it's as looks or how he speaks is They're they're they're spinning and riffing on his policies and whatnot. We've never had Our comedy is very different in Canada. It seems there's there's there's no one comedian that I can remember that has been hard on like politicians mercer. Rick Mercer is a satirist is definitely the guy if you if you wanted be not because I I toured with him and he ripped all of them you know. He ripped everybody. We toured in October November. When Justin Trudeau's black face was still fresh andrew? Zannier about it being a you know in the insurance industry really you know painted that one on thick turned out. He was like a summer intern or something like that. But rumor so is making fun of Al Andrew. Scheer would sometimes be like let me put on my old insurance cap for a minute and think about that dude was a summer. You were injured. You've got coffee for people. Relax putting on your whole half but he made he he you know rick is probably more. He Leans Liberal. You know as a as a man from Newfoundland. I you could probably do the math on it but char- you don't know it like that's not what he says. He makes fun of everybody across the Board and so. I think we do have our at least that one guy and I hear you know. Steve Patterson will do it in a couple of other guys. I really enjoy that role but yeah I mean. I think we may not have as much fun to Megan and Canadian politics. We've bought into the fact that it's boring so people up more exciting stuff that I can talk about. You know by the ones who do well do a really great job. Rix The first one who comes to mind I The name the guy he just said. Who Does the debaters listening tonight? I had a chance to To see him host to be a host At this Awards banquets I went to. While within the past month He is hilarious. He is so funny unbelievably funny. He's a guy who when I early on he used to live in Montreal for a short period of time two years and I saw him on on stage and I while I shouldn't be a comedian like I really. That's what good comedy is. I'M NOT GONNA get there like there's no reason for me to To pursue this. I I really had like a reckoning. After seeing him he was so his material was amazing. He was so unbelievable. You know what it was. It was Saint Patrick's Day. It was a nightmare. It was the worst environment for Comedians. Because people are drunk their heckling so kappa wooden that his material live like he'd be funny for a bit they land and they need like beg people to let him finish this joke right not going to get that one patient that he going on people would refund make fun of them and just loved it. And I'm like I'm watching this thinking I'm never gonna be able to do this and thankfully over time you realize it. Oh it just it takes a lot of practice. It takes a lot of good and bad situations that you have to study up to pick apart and be like okay. This is the this is the direction we can go in. And you just have to build your your tool kit you know and I had had toolkit one year two years in watching Steve Paterson. I was like I gotta quit. But he's really the best so good as you still do stand up. Do you know he does we. We did a show together. We toured together with the Saskatoon J allow. His name is Is Limited for. He's not GONNA do He was touring with Ivan Decker. He was touring with a couple of other comedians. I don't remember who else but he he's done that recently. As of two years ago now with the debaters he's also doesn't help. The debaters live. Scott all the corporate gigs. He does but he had a tour called. This is not debatable. He did have that was two years ago. Yeah yeah he is he is he is funny Up and coming COMEDIANS. That that you really I would say jared Campbell who we've mentioned a couple of times here. Jarrett is He's kind of crossover the UP AND COMING. He's he's he's got a set from just for laughs from last year on on TV. But I think I don't know if Jarrett's even been doing it like six or seven years but he's great. There's a kid named Jacob Baltin in Toronto who comes to mind Another Jacob Jacob Samuel from Vancouver is such a good comedy writer he's Great There's another guy out of Edmonton who was the Yoyo champion. That was his claim to fame before comedy. And he's so so good. I'M GONNA look him up Yoyo. Chant comedy edney tonight. I have to tell you this guy's name very very dry very The way he delivers his like nothing else I've ever seen before. Yeah but I have to get his name at some point. I don't know how to no. It's not coming up his name now. I look at Yoyo and champion. How many Yoyo champions are there? This is regrettable in Edmonton yeah out of Edmonton originally. I think he lives in Vancouver now. But we'll see again we'll we'll we'll look him up. what's Ugandan comedian Oh Arthur Simeon. That's not covered by any. He's not up for coming but he's hilarious. He's fantastic. He's wanting to S. He's really another guy who Dave and Arthur and I would tour together Sometimes we did a little tour called legends. In the making now I was the host. I was not the legend making it that day but we toured together. We had so much fun. We had just a ridiculous amount of fun and I don't know man. I watched him grow into something very very special. Also he's really really good One of my life. I don't know if it's on anymore but designated survivor when it first came out I remember So during the day I work in the advertising space and I remember getting The first the first episode and in watching that I like this. You know Kiefer Sutherland. As President Okay can get behind that And I watched it all and it wasn't until I to prep for this then. I realize you're on that show dude. You had watched it and just not no. I had not known I had not known that. That was you How tell me about that experience working with working with Kiefer Sutherland? In in that whole crew it was you don't because of the environments it's like it's very surreal. You're like Oh man I watched you like I. Don't get star struck That's really how I get. Yeah Yeah but I did get like. Is this really happening to me right now? I really am keeper southern. I've been watching since I was a kid. But because of the environment which is very very like Hyperproductive so this guy keeper Sutherland. Is You know the executive producer and He you know I think he helps. Direct a little babies. I you know. the lead. Obviously he's in most of the scenes and his thing is also. He doesn't want anybody to have their scripts on on set. Sometimes people are like fumbling till the last second to remember their lines. Everybody should come prepare. So it's very get a. I've never had that with any other set. Where my agent sends we mail saying? Production is asking that you come fully prepared knowing your lines some people. That's not part of their process. They're like man that sucks. But that's what Kiefer Sutherland Ass Ford. He's got more lines than anybody plus executive producing the show. And he's a workaholic and ease of musician tours with his band on his off time. So if keeper can do it we can do it so I came very very prepared and it was really like let's go. Let's go and he's very hard on himself when he doesn't get the line so it was so serious and so intense so quickly that I had no time to feel how surreal it was but it was an amazing experience. Was Really Yeah. That was that was really nice. You're doing some more acting. Is that something? You're you're doing more of where you want to do more I am. I've got about. I guess the first time I did any acting twenty eleven. I was in three things I was in three films and I was like well. Looks like I'm an actor. Now this is my life and then Little nothing changed and I was like man. This is so KEDO wakeup call. You know yeah. I was in Movie called breakaway. A movie goon had a lot of people were like. You're seeing was terrific and goon is just one scene but it was opposite. Sean Sean Sean. William Scott on Michael. Scott Sean William Scott Jaye Barish Shell stiffler. Stiffler is right. Sean I'm Jay Baer Sean. Yeah an Eugene Levian Day integrate and then people were like This is gray. You know pumping my tires. Basically as in a movie called French immersion with an all star Canadian cast in Quebec cast and people were like you did a great job and housing is is who I am. Nothing changed not one extra. I didn't do another movie for a bunch of years. Actually it was more like TV and other things came up. Yeah so it just it. It was a good early reminder to me that You know nothing is guaranteed to you. Nothing nothing's likes changing. It's not like it's on the days that older comics talk about like if you got on Johnny Carson. Your Life with the next day you'd get a deal you'll get a sitcom you get something this is now with the world we live it. You know. It's not nothing equals anything. Nothing's guaranteed any. Yeah that's right. Yeah it was good. It was good for me to bre- allies that right away and realize it comedy will always be my anchor. I was like I will make sure that I am always doing comedy. Because comedy always provides me with something and that that should be my anchor. And that's where people you know. Speech should know that. That's that's my priority. And that's the way I've operated and it's worked out and that comedian from Edmund. Who I was talking to you about Charles. Haycock Charles RECCO. Yeah Nice terrific. Do you remember if it was on one of four point five or if it was on ten or ten fifty on Sunday nights there would be a like an hour to hour comedy Late at night I think it was four point five but I would listen to this show every Sunday night to discover I. I guess because it was hilarious and I would listen to people like like. You can't listen people anymore. Because I don't know if it's right or wrong but you know you'd hear Bill Cosby. You hear Woody Allen Woody Allen as a stand up. Comic blue was hilarious. I don't know if you've ever had a chance to listen to his his old. Stand up stuff feminine. Yeah Yeah I was a New York couple of years ago. I think when Louis C. K. Was making his comeback and you know he shows up at the at the cellar unannounced so. I was there on the his second. Iv did that okay And he was funny and so my question to you. I'm more I'm asking for your advice now. Can we separate? What are your thoughts on separating the arts from the artist? It's it's the it's such a enormous discussion it's A. It's a huge huge subject. I don't know man I don't know I'm I'm not really able to do it to be honest people who do look there's the bill cosby's of the world like why would you want to like it's come on how many women does a man have to rape in their sleep for you to be united still like well if you can separate that like there might be something wrong with you as well. You know I'm talking about. I loved guns N. Roses when I was growing gloved gun. Oh yes and then. Axl Rose turned out to be such a prick and not to me directly. Just a short is such a loser and then I was like I'm done with. This band is over this advance. I don't like this guy so I'm I'm quick to pull the shoot. I know not. Everyone needs to do that. In the case of Louis C. K. I felt like he was such a brilliant writer. And all this a brilliant comic incredible work ethic but he was so unapologetic. I really felt like is like you. These these these flex got what they wanted or whatever you know his his attitude was like he wasn't really. I don't know he came back. More slugging arrogant I thought and I was like There was an opportunity for you to generally be a little bit humble about this and I never really saw that. Yeah but I'm not the guy I'm not the guy who's like how dare Yuk Yuks Book Louis. If People Wanna go see him and that's that doesn't that doesn't I'm not in a place where I could be like. You should not go and see this person. That's for sure. Yeah but it but it's tricky because you know female friends who are like well. This guy is basically a a sexual harasser. Now if this happened to your girlfriend or if this happened to your To your to your sister all of a sudden would you be so keen to be like come on let Louis perform you know you more personally needle Chapman? Maybe maybe I'm not looking at this correctly. So it's it's idle. Have all the answers man? But it's very very tricky territory and I've always had. I was able to shoot quickly because there are people out there. There's good people and good. Camacho building support those guys absolutely absolutely. I'm always I'm always. I'm always worried about you. Know the heroes that you might have seen. That will one day ego shit now. I like that guy anymore. You know I I Love Bill. Burr I just loved Ober about seems and I think it's probably visiting Montreal so I didn't live in Montreal anymore so might have been twenty thirteen. Twenty fourteen he hadn't peak peak yet but he was so great. Things are going really well for him and I walk into the comedy works my home club and the Bruins are playing the halves on TV. I know he's from Boston. I know he loves the BRUINS. I know a lot about this man. I'm Harris Fan. He's watching TV. He's drinking beer. And I'm like I. I can see a half of his profile and his beards looking at the TV. And I took. I took about ten seconds to deliberate. Should I go up to bill? Burr has I know I walked right by him and it takes a lot of like you know how people are when they see someone they love. I just have to tell you this I just had to meet you. Did you after you had acted disturb this person's life that was sold them a favor but I could fall in? I could see myself falling into that trap. Yeah that with Matson Dean. Once and later I was like why did I start talking to Matson Dean and make him feel weird. I don't even like the leafs. I don't even like Matson Dean. What's this is like fame changes you as a human being on the spot. Sometimes so I just basically. I walked by Bill. Burr and I had no regrets. I don't WanNa meet my hero in this case. Because what if he's a prick? Then what if all a good thing that? I walked by so yeah sometimes you don't WanNa meet your heroes. You know it turns out to be like a little bit unappealing and then then then I'm not guy the guy who pulls the shoot not make Marianna hero nine euro and what if you meet somebody on a bad day. Yeah exactly exactly and you hope that all that all that to say there are also these cases where the disease on Saris of the world right about that. I just got a raw deal. That's just a kind of. He's kind of Goof. He's kind of a goofball with no game but he got he got he got invalided to something bigger into this Louis C. K. and Harvey Weinstein thing. Then you know Darby Weinstein is a monster Louis C. Monster as he's on sorry you know he was he just he just asked for a blowjob in a weird way. You know what it felt like I. There's those cases also that you're like I can't really get behind that one. He's kind of goofball and he was you know I heard his latest special. He did feel genuinely. It seemed like he was genuinely shamed and humiliated. Yeah appreciate of people coming out because it could all be taken away from you at any moment. That's interesting. Les Man This has been This has been great. Meant I appreciate all the time right. I really do. I feel like you're a guy who I feel. I feel I am talking to a comedy fan. Who could talk about it forever over sure thanks? Yeah yeah listen if if people want to keep up with what you're doing whether it's your new cooking endeavors or whatnot. Where's the best place for them to go Standup ALI DOT COM is the website. I'm about to go in and put the word can sold on a bunch of gigs. It's all right. People can see like the life of an artist and how these things go but a standup. I lead dot. Com is the website and then everything else is by Leon on instagram on twitter on facebook at underbelly. Now now you brought up another question. I have You know so whether it's you I know you've you've got the the glamorous CBC GIG and But again there's other artists leather comedians. that you know there were serving a restaurant like you said they're Dicamba in both of those things have been taken away from them. What can what little can we do as consumers and fans due to help out? What would you recommend? A lot of comics are a Posting hosting or posting online comedy. So they are basically look as a comedian. If you've got that hustle if you've got that need to do comedy you go you seven. Ten days without comedy doesn't feel right. It doesn't feel right in your stomach. You're like men might think by saying that I love. I'm not doing it why I haven't gotten on so long and that first time back that second time back you're like my rhythms off. I'm not my jokes. Aren't exactly where they need to be. I don't feel the same comfort on stage. So we're all taking the sort of forced hiatus and I think a lot of people are doing comedy from home right now and they don't have the laughter they won't have the sound of laughter. They won't have that. But if you WANNA watch some comedians try out some stuff. Give them some support. Pell them that you thought this joke work. This joke didn't all of that kind of stuff. I think it will go a long way and you know it's interesting that right now. In this time global pandemic people are turning to the artists right. They're turning the. Tv turned into comedy like on television. They're turning to their actors and they miss the performances and they miss all that when when this is all over and God willing. It'll be sooner rather than later. Please come out with some artists in every way. You can't right now another thing you did. You can buy the albums that Comedians Comedians have put out not expensive five bucks ten bucks if you have the means. I mean if you're if you're in the dumps yourself right now do you know. Don't don't put yourself out but you know bookmark that say that when you get some money. I will support this comic. Because they've worked so hard and they've made so many people laugh or entertained so many people. I think that's one way to do it. I think I mentioned more than one way there but I think that's a good way to sort of see things right now. Ali Matt. Thank you again for your time. Thank you so much off took.

Toronto Montreal Abraham Dave Russell Peters Scott Falconbridge jared Campbell Canada Pakistan Ali New Brunswick Danforth CBC Saint Patrick Jarrett Dave Marash Joe Joe Rogan Kiefer Sutherland New Jersey America
Keluarga #3 - Memiliki Keturunan yang Sholih

Radio Fajri 99.3FM

10:15 min | 7 months ago

Keluarga #3 - Memiliki Keturunan yang Sholih

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Allows loan on your son Lem men do can panic home. Lucky. Lucky there. Yeah. Womb took money. One Nita one need Diane's wool anger clocked yet is a law Maliki through Magnon Banger. Muscle loss loan alumnus up there. The Zo would you were. Fat in Neem theorem become aluminum. Nicola. In Sang at ben-yahya then you run. Out of Subaru come. I can burn demon Kellyanne Dr up on Mount Woman Young Lane had this really at doubt. Again BOOLA collect. Derek Yelm sorting. Humber. ICON here unhidden moving up. Right Red Deion thingy. But Al Liam Raza Alan. Ganglia. Kucan condolence. Dunia the last supper number one. How to a hidden? Yeah. The the WHO you borrow Ratchet Ding Dong Malaysia Dita line DECARLA and poon one generally Banja Connell has sung. LLERENA. Loss of low Ali Hassan lumber sub there. In La Azoic Jila layer FAO Delta judgmental up this sorely fill Jenna fair who'll Yara be. Fair wool besides the fiery one at the Catholic. 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Al Liam Raza Alan Maliki Jerry L. Minion Taro Mulally Annika Han Cancun Karuna Rubab Jagna Anna Muslim Liquor NATO Adela Monica Salam Young Lion Blue Salama Derek Yelm Leominster Lincoln Ali Hassan Steve Benyak Anna Ding Scarlett Kelly Yamba Kanye Subaru Ganj Area Yvonne Beg Duhniah Jim Newark Kanye
March 25: Arch support

As It Happens from CBC Radio

49:51 min | 1 year ago

March 25: Arch support

"Hi I'm Leah and I'm Falen you know us as the host of the podcast. The secret life of Canada. And we've got an exciting better news for you. We do. We want to go to school with you. That's right. We are now part of the curriculum in a way. We've teamed up with educators from across the country to create teaching guys that go along with some of our best episodes. We've got teaching guards for indigenous history. Caribbean Canadian Migration Black History Asian history. It's very exciting. But is very exciting. And so each guard comes with ad free audio transcripts lesson plan slide shows and a whole bunch of other stuff. Yeah just had to. Cbc DOT CA Slash Teaching Guides for more info. And it's free it's free this is a CBC PODCAST. Hello. I'm Carol off and I'm Ali Hassan. This is as it happens. The podcast edition tonight arch support conservative. Leader Andrew Scheer says the Trudeau government has his support in fighting the corona virus. But there are limits to what his party will support a lifeline. But who for the? Us Senate stimulus package contains a big chunk of aid for corporations but one Democratic senator tells us his party fought to make sure the money gets to people who need it insult to injury. It was hard enough to get tested for corona virus. Let alone suffer from the disease but there was one more. Blow that an uninsured. Boston woman got a J Norma's hospital bill. The artists behind the classic Asterix and over leaks cartoons has died reached one of his biggest fans. Who's the author of a modern kids classic herself who describes his masterful combination of action and warmth who says cheetos never prosper our daily trip into the as it happens archives yields a twenty fourteen interview with an artist who works exclusively in a medium that leaves his fingers? Bright Orange and the United States Library of Congress released its annual selection of audio to be preserved forever in the national recording registry as it happens the Wednesday Edition Radio. That preserves an explanation. It took them until just before dawn but this morning after hours of Haggling Parliament finally granted Justin Trudeau the authority to start shoveling money into the fight against the corona virus. Then reporters asked the prime minister when desperate Canadians could hope to see some cash. We need to make sure we're getting that money out quickly but also reliably to Canadians. And that means doing things that government hasn't done before and scaling up our processes extremely quickly. We are hopeful that the system will be up and running by the sixth of April and the direct deposits will be flowing days after that. We recognize that that is a ways off still and there are people who stopped working week and a half ago two weeks ago That are now receiving their last paycheck and not knowing when the next money is coming in. We recognize that. We're looking for ways to help people bridge but we will continue to work diligently and rapidly to make sure we're helping every Canadian we can't that was Prime Minister Trudeau in Ottawa. Today Andrew Shears the leader of the opposition. We reached him in Ottawa. This this year. How much confidence do you have? The bill passed in the wee hours of this morning. Is What county needs at this point. Well we're we're optimistic cautiously optimistic. We've we've seen a few examples of the government moving very slowly in some areas and in the case of the legislation surprising every opposition party with unprecedented powers instead of just focusing on getting financial assistance. Out The door so You know we're we're trying to cooperate in a in an effort of goodwill and show Canadians that we can find common ground between all different parties But we are going to hold the government to account when it's slow to react when it has to reverse its policies or when it It does things that in I'd never credit way. The most crucial thing is that Canadians at this point. Need to have a tremendous amount of confidence that the government was doing the partisan fighting we saw during last night. How much confidence do you think that may have been shaken in Canadians by watching? What was shaking. Was the confidence in the government to proceed on that basis of good faith. You know we did not have a partisan position We were told to come back to Ottawa to pass much needed financial assistance. We were prepared to do so At the very last hour we received legislation with complete sidelining of parliamentary oversight. And we just cannot accept that not because we were conservatives but because we're parliamentarians and Canadians who believe in our democracy So we were able to get major concessions from the government to put back in and accountability and oversight and we're satisfied with the outcome so far but you know it's essentially the government recognize that Having accountability actually makes for good decisions Some of their early decisions for example not to restrict travel from international destinations. A few weeks ago had to be reversed almost immediately So when the government says something that's wrong or when? They say that they're doing something and they're not doing it. They need permit there to hold them to account to get action on these issues. Because my point out what you're referring to is this you were you found. In the legislation this section that would grant the government unlimited tax and spend powers until the end of next year The Global Mail. Aditorial calling that Mr Trudeau's for stumble and otherwise good response. Did you see it that way? What was a major stumble You know if it was either very unwise or it was a deliberate attempts to seize the opportunity to Give himself more More power and that's not something we could abide by. You know we were surprised to find That they were giving themselves broad new powers to make payments to various entities that there was no mechanism for for oversight with terms of the Finance Committee So we're able to put all of those things but I think what's critical here and as you heard. The Prime Minister say there are going to be people who are suffering in real time and our message to the government yesterday was if we if we need to get assistance so quickly then focus on doing that. Don't don't start including other measures that give minister sweeping new powers if they if they WANNA have a conversation about greater latitude during a time of crisis have that separately from the conversations around getting financial. Help out so we can do that quickly. And then we can take our time on on the other types of things we spoke with. Doug meet Zing last night. He's out that were. They weren't going far enough with wage subsidies the MVP like to see even more being done but interestingly enough conservative Senate leader Don Plant. Who calls himself a staunch fiscal conservative? He fears that the aid package does not go far enough and that is not an adequate financial support for what people need would you. Do you share that with your conservative colleague? Mr Plant. Well we all recognize that. These are unprecedented times. We're not seeing people lose their job because of market conditions. They're closing the door because they're being told to by government and that's why we do believe that it's appropriate for the government to provide assistance. A ten percent wage. Subsidy is not going to make the difference for the vast majority of businesses who have had to keep their doors closed for the last two weeks. What we're very concerned about his. Will THERE BE JOBS FOR PEOPLE TO GO BACK TO A? We believe that there needs to be System there so that when this crisis over stores and restaurants and retailers can open their doors again and people can go back to work and if there isn't that assist provided many of those small business owners go bankrupt. Many of those stores won't real and people will be relied on these types of Government benefits for much longer. I believe this. Liberal government has a version to supporting small businesses they. They launched an attack on small business. Just a few years ago and they've completely left them out in this. Financial Package is a census. Some are giving that that that this corona virus oddly enough could make for a reset of the Canadian economy. There's a lot of things are going could change and a lot of things could be redirected if that's possible and I know this is looking for in the future but what what what would change. What do you think the Post virus economy in? Canada is gonNA look like well. I'm not sure I don't know if it's GonNa be a reset but it's certainly going to inflict tremendous damage. I think we're going to be looking at weeks and months of very very difficult. Economic conditions many. Many people will see a drastic reduction in their income. And that's why it's essential that once the health crisis components over that we get our economy back up and running The best thing for Canada has and always will be a robust free market. Free people buying and selling freely That that that is what we need to get back to. As quickly as possible crisis when government has told people not to work it is appropriate but the government provide that assistance throughout this period. But then we have to quickly get back to A normal free market economy that allows everyone to To Prosper we have seen a remarkable level of all party cooperation in this crisis. And and as you know it's Canadians want to see you all pulling together. But I'm wondering after what happened with this this attempt to put in this these extraordinary powers as your trust in Mr Tobin shaken. It has and I'll tell you why we have been indicating a very publicly our support for many of the measures. We have definitely changed the tone of our critiques when when we are pointing out things that they're not doing we're doing it in a way that's constructive and not just aimed to try to grab a headline and we were assured that there would be no surprises in the legislation So it took us all by surprise and for me to go back to my own caucus i. It's it's made it harder for me to tell my team You know we're working on a deal because the last time this happened. So I'm hopeful that we can restore that trust. I'm always an optimist but actually there's been some Some real damage to our ability to operate in good faith. We will leave it there. Mr Scherr thank you. Thank you very much. That's opposition leader Andrew Scheer. We reached him today in Ottawa. The two trillion dollar stimulus package proposed by the US Senate. Today is meant to provide relief to American businesses workers and the markets but it may not change very much for millions of Americans who don't have health insurance if you are uninsured and you test positive for corona virus and you happen to need hospital care in the US. It could be a perfect storm. Danny Skinny found herself in that situation. This month she's recently uninsured American recovering from lymphoma treatment. It took her three visits to the hospital to get tested for Corona virus and when the results came back she tested positive and her hospital. Bill was astronomical. We reached any skinny in Boston. Danny first of all does give us the grand total of your hospital bill. It is thirty five thousand one hundred and twelve dollars and twenty two cents. I had a few things added on the last week. How are you processing that number? It's very overwhelming and scary I'm just recovering from fulmer. And it just feels like such a huge setback for me. This how did I might want to get a sense of it. Got To be that amount you. I had symptoms. That were seemed that you were sick. The very end of February. What was that like? What were you feeling yes. We had chest pain shortness of breath and I had very high pulse and blood pressure at first on the twenty nights and it went into the emergency room because I land call just had recommended doing that and we lowered my blood pressure and I started to feel better I went home and then the next day the fever coughing and the sore throats truck. Okay now this because it's the undefended beginning of March. It's hard for us to remember what the assumptions were made at that time but Now of course they would probably test you for covert nineteen. Was there any discussion about the possibility that you had corona virus? Yes we discussed it. Because I'm immuno-compromised I'd been at a hospital. I actually attended the biogen conference here in Boston. And seeing friends from all over the world and there was some discussion but there were no tests. So we couldn't test me and so they treated me for pneumonia and sent me home for the second visit and I just continue to get worse before you went to the third visit. What was the state of your health? Started by feeling like I was fighting off the virus at a very high temperature. I was coughing a ton. I have had a very hard time breathing but eventually about five days. After my first visit might temperature drops. My breasts became really shallow and fast and I couldn't breathe. I was coughing up a lot of mucus and you could hear my chest rattling and every day that we had called the Department of Public Health here in Massachusetts to try and get a task and no tests were available and then finally you know with the Emergency Room and colleges. We decided I had to go back and get treatment again and people have described as if feeling like you're drowning. It is terrible. It really causes you a deep sense of panic when every tiny tried to breathe in you immediately costs and you can never catch a full breath. It's very scary on the third visit. You got the test I did. The doctors really insistence. I'm laughing because they were literally yelling on the phone and I could hear them through the isolation door Yelling at the CDC in the Department of Public Health and they finally did get me a task. What was the argument? He they were having with the the Center for Disease Control. They basically wouldn't talking. Because I hadn't left the United States it was. It was very heated. I felt taken care of by the doctors nurses but I felt really. Yeah I felt really let down by the state. How long did it take before when you had the test to when you found out that you had Kovac nineteen yet? It took about five days so we actually had to send it to a private lab in the test. Cost nine hundred seven dollars because of that fact So was never done by State Department of Public Health so it took about five days to get the test results back by then I had started to really feel recovered But in total urban a total of ten days from when I first had symptoms until I finally got a positive test results. Were you ever admitted to hospital for this? No we discussed being admitted. But because I'm uninsured. Unfortunately in the United States it actually is very difficult to people who are uninsured. If the hospital thinks that you won't be able to pay the full bill and so instead they sent me home with a lot of supplies like an oxygen canister an ice. Iv Bags on also nurse. So you know that kind of weighed in and I felt pretty confident. Once we stabilize my vitals that I could maintain them and and I was able to do that but I think I should have probably been admitted but the fact that I didn't have insurance it talked to that you didn't have insurance and your bill came to about thirty five thousand dollars. What cost so much A lot of it is the hospital isolation room when you're in isolation for a respiratory disease everything that is going to be used on you during your visit has to be in the room with you when you first arrive and then after you leave everything that wasn't used house we thrown away and you're built for all of that but also the room itself cost five thousand dollars each visit and the doctors and nurses costs about thirteen to fifteen hundred dollars a piece for each visit. So is very expensive Canadians. Listening to this are aghast because this is our greatest fear that we would ever not have the universal health care that we have twenty seven million Americans. Do not have insurance. That's almost the population of Canada. What what is what do these bills have? Because I'm not the only. What does this mean for you to have have a sticker price of this size? Yeah I am going to apply for the low income health insurance program and if that is denied which it might be I will apply for charity care from the hospital. But there's no guarantee either not required by law to to pay for this And then I'll have to declare bankruptcy otherwise and I think this should also factor in the number of uninsured. People factor into how Canada considers opening the border again with the United States. Given all of what's coming out of DC about possibly reopening the country by Easter. I really think Canadians should seriously consider the safety of your public health. I can assure you that is on the minds of many people and as you mentioned president trump has said that the economy has to get going The the cure is being worse than the the sickness. How do those statements that with you? I think none of these. I was at the hospital again yesterday. I have permanent lung and heart damage now from this virus and I have lost capacity and they just got put on three new heart medications yesterday. I don't think that any of these people have visited the intensive care units and they have not seen what it looks like in the in the ICU and like literally dozens of people on ventilators and people coughing and suffocating for their life. I think it's so insensitive. What they're saying is so devoid of the folks on the ground. They're more interested in dollars and sense than people's lives and it's it's shocking to me as somebody who's now going to have a permanent disability from this virus Getting choked up. It's very shocking to hear our political leaders making those kind of statements Knowing that I could have lost my life I already know. I have one friend in Seattle. Who has passed Who is a frontline healthcare worker And that's just really it's shocking and sad for me Danny. I'm glad you're okay and I'm sorry you're going through all this and Voice feels the way for all the other ones that are probably confronting the same thing appreciate you speaking with us. Thank you thank you so much. Carol by Danny S. skinny is recovering from Kovic nineteen and is currently dealing with a thirty five thousand dollar hospital. Bill reached her in Boston. And you can find more on her story on our website at CBC DOT CA Slash Ai. H over the decades hundreds of people have gone out searching for evidence of the SASQUATCH. And they've come back empty-handed but a few years ago we spoke with the man who found the legendary ape creature all on his own in a bag of cheetos tonight's trip into the as it happens. Archives takes us back to November of twenty fourteen to our interview with the Kentucky man named Andy Hewitt. He's a mechanical engineer by trade. But he's also an artist and a visionary where you and I opened a bag of flaming hot cheetos and see a snack or instant heartburn. Mr Hewitt sees art a sasquatch for example and the tippety scene and a monkey throwing feces from our archives. Here's Carol's conversation with Andy Hewett on November thirteenth. Twenty fourteen. Andy what was your first. Cheeto discovery CHEETO. That launched your vision. That would be sasquatch. It was a SASQUATCH. It was cheetos that looked like sasquatch. Yes no one's actually seen sasquatch how you sure that matches the serious medical watch all right then after that. What what did you find in your cheetos bag? I found a number seven which was actually a pretty good number. Seven very intricate and I say I think it was a fan cheering in the crowd. I called it like a guy with his arms up and then you had like a hammerhead shark cat cats and so now after you discovered these works of Art. Cheetos bag winded. Actually I mean the whether just discoveries when did you actually pass over into creating pictures of them in the early part? But maybe the first twenty to thirty. I was holding them with my hands taking a picture with my phone. And then I switched to a tweezers after getting comments about my cheesy singer. Steve People's that you didn't look terribly well groomed or your fingers right. Yeah because I was working out project and I you know thirty right and Cheetos can really really be kinda greasy and dirty to all right so then you started taking photos in a more elaborate way. How did how did you do that? What I did was after the tweezers I did. I took a piece of Plexiglass then. I just had a wooden box and I hung the over. I let it can't leader over the edge of the box like a diving board and draped a sheet on the floor and I just set the Te'o on there and that would take a picture with my phone and then you would send these out on instagram post among instagram. How Popular Have Your Cheeto? Works been pretty popular some better than others. They've been pretty popular an instagram. They were GONNA mass. A lot of followers people like this but we talked about the SASQUATCH and then the number seven and Things like a cat from there. You went into some pretty elaborate. Cheeto art. I mean I'm thinking about one which is called interpreter and guide for the Lewis and Clark Edition. Yes yes that was the first one where I actually really elaborated on on the caption. I call them the title. I look at those camps titles but that was the first one where I actually had an elaborate description and I really liked the descriptions being more elaborate so I I just switched to that and I was able to create better art Another one second Joe. Is that how you pronounce it Julia? Yes seconds away nods her head as she holds her baby. Jean Baptiste Charbonneau. Yes and that's what you saw you just I you look at set there. It is second. Julia nodding your head as she her baby. Jean Baptiste Charbonneau. There was no other interpretation for that. Tito was actually the first thing I had that one for two weeks before I actually figured out what it was. I actually thought I I. We're going to call it a swamp monster of some sort. Does the Cheeto tell you what it is it in a way it does? Sometimes it doesn't want to tell me and I have to coax it out but some of them it tells me right away and others I really oh actually no. It looks like something. I'll take a picture and then I just look at the picture and try and figure out what. How do you coax out of the CHEETO? What it is I basically ask questions the soccer trivia. I looked at it and I thought okay. That's that actually looks like somebody holding something. What are they holding? And Oh maybe it's a baby okay. Whose baby kind of beating. And then. I thought wait a minute baby that. She's carrying around so the Chitose speaks to you do they teach me do they. Did Tito speak to you know Not Really I just I in a way you can say to me and they tell me a story right actually hearing voice okay so and what happens to the rest of the cheetos into how many works of this nature. Do you find in. Say an average bag of cheetos. It's been for a while. I actually only eat about sixty to seventy percent of the bag and if I find anything I call shadow. You follow what we call. What a suspect she inspected. Okay I will save it in You know probably usually just on a paper plate that I have sitting on my town. Just I said if they're in that come back to it and I go for further observations so I take another look at them and by that time they're already sailed so I don't end up emails but thirty percent of the man. It usually ends up on that plate. That's a high ratio of art to Tito right and do you. Do you worry that you bet you may be have eaten? Something that really should have been an artwork I don't worry about it. I think I'll give you a pretty good look. I don't worry but I I'm sure that earlier point my life I've eaten plenty of pieces of art but I didn't know about all right. It's it's fascinating Andy. Thank you bye-bye. From our archives Carol speaking with any Hewitt who finds the artistic beauty in Cheetos that first aired in November two thousand fourteen and you can find more of that story at CBC DOT CA Slash A. H. Hi Emily And I'm feeling you know us. The host of the podcast the secret life of Canada. And we've got an exciting better news for you. We do. We want to go to school with you. That's right. We are now part of the curriculum in a way. We've teamed up with educators from across the country to create teaching guys that go along with some of our best episodes. We've got teaching guides for indigenous history. Caribbean Canadian Migration Black History Asian history. It's very exciting. It is very exciting and so each guard comes with ad free audio transcripts lesson plans slide shows and a whole bunch of other stuff. Yeah just had to. Cbc DOT CA Slash Teaching Guides for more info. And it's free it's free. It's designed to be a two trillion dollar lifeline. And if passed by Congress it will be the biggest fiscal stimulus package in. Us history. The package contains billions of dollars in loans for small businesses and five hundred billion dollars in aid for large corporations. It includes direct payment of checks to Americans and it provides aid to hospitals struggling for medical equipment cove nineteen has ground the US economy to a halt and despite stern warnings from health officials president. Donald TRUMP is vowing to open up the country again by Easter. Mark Warner is Democratic senator. In Virginia he supports the stimulus package. That was proposed today. We reached him this afternoon in Alexandria Virginia. Senator Warner is package for Wall Street or from mainstream a package. That originated was frankly more geared for Wall Street. I think it's been dramatically changed. I'm not a big fan of the administration. Usually but the treasury secretary came in I think worked with us to make enormous improvements. It really breaks into four or five categories direct support for families a lot of support for small businesses and medium sized businesses with the ability for smaller businesses to actually get full reimbursement for four to six weeks a lot of support as well for hospital system and muchly expanded unemployment insurance so that back in America United States about seventy percent of our workers. Don't get traditional unemployment because they may be gig workers or independent contractors. Those workers are now be covered. So I think it's a much better package and I'm anxious to get it to the president's desk at this point and this may change before we go to air with this interview but it seems that it's being held up and that the Republicans are saying there's a massive drafting error in the current version and concerns that the enhanced unemployment benefits are an incentive for people not to work. Is that something that you can address? I do not believe that's the case This has been negotiated with the administration until the wee hours. Last night I would be disappointed in the markets. I think the world would be disappointed if we don't move this legislation. It is a generous unemployment program for four months and it does cover a lot of workers that have not been covered in the past when we've got this kind of healthcare crisis when it's not frankly the fault of the workers or for that matter businesses Let's make sure we get the assistance out and also let's make sure that the assistance businesses that we have the kind of transparency and restrictions on stock buybacks executive compensation that so angered Americans after the Tarp Program. Back in two thousand eight dazzling. Ask you next. Because today's packages you point five hundred billion in aid for large corporations and people remember what happened in two thousand and eight and nine where the corporations use the money sometimes to buy back their own stock lots of abuse for what they call the troubled asset relief program. What guarantees is not going to be abused again? Well there are guarantees on the direct lending component that will put restrictions on stock buybacks on dividends on excessive executive compensation they'll also be enormous transparency literally within a week. Any of the terms of direct lending We'll have to be distributed and sunlight is the best disinfectant. There will be the ability for the Treasury to go in and buy up commercial paper corporate debt that stabilizes the market but it is something the Fed has done in the past because this is both a a program run by the Treasury but also leverage some of the ability of the Federal Reserve as well. Is it really possible at this point to stimulate the economy? I mean is this. Is this disaster. Relief or is the stimulus. I think it's a bit about. My focus was on disaster relief. How do we make sure those families that have been laid off or quarantined or sick or those frontline health care providers who are putting their lives on the line literally every day? Get the equipment. They need get economic security. They need there is a general stimulus as well with this. Twelve hundred dollar check Per adult up to a certain income level I think that will be helpful but not as targeted as the disaster relief components have to ask you a also about the plans. It president trump seems to have to reopen your country by Easter To kick start the economy. What's stopping him from doing that? What's stopping him? And I would hope and wish and pray that we would be able to open by Easter driving through the streets of Washington seem deserted. It's pretty strange but this country is going to follow the advice of the healthcare professionals of our mayors governors as a former governor. I've let are my state through a disaster. In the past. I know what kind of responsibility nothing would be worse than trying to send this country back to work before. There was an all clear if people started going back to work and the illness started. Despite the lack of trust in government and frankly the lack of trust of people even being willing to go back to work would undermine for a long long time to come so I think. Rational approaches will prevail but president trump. And he's not alone in this seems to be making a calculus as to how many American lives might be okay to sacrifice for the sake of the economy. That's been something quite shocking to many people in the world but it seems to be a kind of an idea that is being picked up by others. What do you make of that or I make it at? Maybe the fact that president trump may not know friends or family Who's got the illness I've got friends and family. I've got your friends who who are got housing candidate who are caught in. We're trying to get them the appropriate care in Montreal at this point I think as this comes home to roost. More families across country and across the world across Canada across the world that that kind of cavalier attitude will will move beyond. And as we've seen from this president. He has a tendency to make comments or tweets that Oftentimes are not followed through on. And I I think the kind of universal rejection of those comments yesterday. are an indication of where we're headed. I'd love to see US Open by Easter if healthcare experts allowed But I don't think we're going to see a forcing of people going back to work while the virus is still running rampant and speaking of people have seen. Who are ill. We spoke with a woman in Boston. Who has no health insurance who tested positive for covert one thousand nine hundred spent three sessions in the emergency department and now has thirty five Thousand Dollar Hospital Bill? How will today stimulus package? Help people at Kerr. We've already put in place. The ability to make sure all testing is free and one of them stories after the crisis United States is inability to get testing equipment out in efficient fashion and its failure to adopt the German. Who Standards is answers? We still need to get. There has been additional funding in this recent package to make sure that folks who are uninsured. Don't receive those kind of oftentimes. They're viewed as what we call them. The state's surprised billing my family. Who's got very good health insurance? I had a daughter go to a hospital. Come home with a ninety two thousand dollars bill and we have as good of his insurance as anyone. this is a a an abuses taking place in our system right now that again. There's some bipartisan interest. In making sure we closed down. Canadians is find. This kind of thing shocking. So Appreciate what Americans find it shocking? His wealth and this is not just an American or Canadian and this is a worldwide pandemic and the more we can haul in together. I think the better we all be off Senator Warner. I hope that your country is able to cope with this We're hoping ours as well and I appreciate speaking with you. Thank you thank you. Mark Warner is Democratic senator. In Virginia we reached him earlier today in Alexandria Virginia What's the sound of bells ringing? Saint George in the Pines Anglican Church in Banff. If you live in the area you've come to expect to hear that sound more often recently. The Churches Pianist Heather Gene Jordan has been ringing them every day around one o'clock in the afternoon everyone inside. She's hoping to send a message of hope echoing through her community. Heather Gene Jordan spoke to the BBC's CBC Calgary's eye opener about how the idea formed. I played every Sunday at Saint George's except for the last couple of days and But the church still streamed services and the first thing that we did it. I rang the bells and people really touched them and they said I really needed that so I thought well I don't have any other work really so I might as well do it every day. What are what are the bills like that when you ring them? What do you actually do? You press down on a lever so there are eleven levers and it's kind of a if you saying the kids like go right me foucault it's like go to doe and a low. T. and then two extra notes that are accidental. Chill out for a larger range. Oh lots so you can see. You have an option of what you play. Yes it's still very limited But but I can play quite a few different things on there. You could do doe deer a female deer and go through the whole tone. I did that. Yes I'm able to do that and and people really liked it. I've been playing quite a few secular pieces because it's for everybody and every day I try to Donald Canada. So what's what's been the response and bath. Can you describe that for me? Oh well I mean I just kind of started doing it. And then people started reaching out on on facebook and sending me texts and they people seem to love it and you can hear it. The town is probably almost half. The town is laid off so but it's a very quiet hound but you can hear it way across the river up into the Middle Springs area which is on the way to the Rim rock if people know that area other clearly has Baid Bam feel better. We're hearing how that's how we heard about you. We heard for people in Bam saying you've got to hear these bells. They're fantastic. What a nice addition to the town. But I have to ask. Does it make you feel better to play the bells right now? It does. Yeah it does You know I'm I'M I. I also teach last week time teaching online lessons. But everything else is so all over the place and you know every even with lessons. It's it's all new so making it as one o'clock and you know you might be feeling pretty low in the morning and by the time you get there you go okay. I've got a ring any bells because there are people who are waiting for them and then by the end. I don't know there's something about bells I by the end. I'm feeling really good. That was banff music teacher Heather Gene Jordan. Speaking with the. Cbs's David Gray. Miss Jordan is ringing the bells at her church every day at around one o'clock comic characters come and go but some live for generations. Asterix is among those few. The French cartoon hero was created in one thousand nine hundred fifty nine and is still treasured today. In the CO creator of the Esta Rick Stories the illustrator Albert who died yesterday of a heart attack. He was ninety too. Many people were influenced by the tales of the plucky Gaul Asterix and his Sidekick Obelix rebelling against the ancient Romans one of them was Cressida cowl. She's the UK Children's laureate and author illustrator of how to train your dragon and the wizards of once we reach in London. Cressida as a child. What did you love about Asterix? Oh I don't Asterix. As a child. I loved the cleverness of the stories. And the the wonderful rations. I mean he's just a genius Stoning illustrations and it was very influential for me. That's why although I writes books for older children which are attacked two books rather than comic book. Novels I include massive massive massive. Have pictures because I think I think pitches are away in for Children. That's certainly a how Albert odors low was hoping it would be and this illustrations are so wonderful. What is it about those? I Guess Asterix and Obelix the two principal characters the inhabitants of this goal French village holding out against the Romans. What is it about those? Two characters that appeals to kids. We'll the underdog I mean they. The children love we all love the idea of underdogs holding out this one. Little village student told by to Rome Irene. That feels to adults as well as children. I think it's the lovely affectionate relationship three strikes in out of legs that we so lovely and appealing. I think for children and I think you see children often. They're so smart. Children very very clever. But tally and film is just beamed magically into children's heads without them having to to work at it and the problem with books and reading. Is that a child has to make an effort to access and if a child even if a child doesn't have a reading difficulties even harder said dyslexic will have a a sort of a problem with reading but even if they don't a book in Perry easily come to represent something that makes them feel stupid even though they're not at all so those illustrations which were absolutely key that the lavish illustrations combined with a very sophisticated story right. But as you say with those characters that with so lovable Australia's but strict so clever and smart safe different aspects. You say smart at Overlake Smith. Just so loveable so adorable. I wonder what influence that That Albert had because now the kinds of the way. He illustrated those gastric stories. It we see it's it's familiar. There are many who have obviously been influenced by what what what style did he develop. Storytelling for kids and illustrations. Yes I you you don't even realize do you. How how influential something is I mean? I am typically as an illustrator myself. I don't think you you consciously realize that you'll being influenced by somebody else but of course if you grow up with something if you if you read something as a child just embeds itself in your consciousness and as soon as you said I hadn't even thought of it would be until you said it but obelix of course he influenced my STOIC. Bost That lovable character. You know that the test has slipped a bit described himself as not being fat but his chance to flip the great That sort of intensely lovable character to influence generations. I'm not just knee generations of of children's illustrators. It was so widespread that had so it. It had an effect on I think. Illustrators crosswell wrong and remind people that what you're referring to is your wonderful series how to. Train Your Dragon. Yes with your scrawny Viking. Hero named Hiccup but so he did have an influence on you. Obviously an influence on the whole idea of graphic novels and telling stories in that way. I'm sure there's lots of people who are doing graphic novels. Most grown up with Asterix. I'm guessing yes asterix and I think that I mean go skin. Go Skinny wrote many graphic novels. A New Dessert Papa illustrate you own papa without go skinny but I think that was that it was the combination of the two of them. That was was so very successful with shop. Writing of Gascony. A new disease stunning illustrations. That was a certain magic happens when they worked together. And of course that was ready. Goscinny or go skinny. He died sometime ago and then Albert who they're losing oneself. He very successfully which is hugely unusual. I I think he'd when you had a successful partnership for him to manage to carry on successfully a writing on his own but I suppose he was a writer when you're in you often telling stories at the same time and he knew those characters there well it already written so many books together but the two giants really what Tintin and Asterix those the ones that went although I say Even just go skinny and dessert Did many graphic novels and I think in France Graphic novels for that age group of us are still terrifically popular. And there's much bigger range actually worldwide. I would say the biggest impact was created by Asterix. And before we let you go what what does give us your favorite asterix so tricky. I Dude Asterix in Switzerland. 'cause there's a magnificent. Two wonderful scenes asterix in Britain. Of course I've got a bit of a spot for goodness I can't choose one. I strikes Asterix in Spain with. They risk you. This kid knocked kids. You can't keep on holding his breath. I mean the whole thing was so funny and clever I is very difficult to to choose a single one. And it's given generations of pleasure. We're going to get our listeners. Sending in their favorite Asterix and crested. I really appreciate your tribute to Albert with today. Thank you genius. He was a genius. A wonderful wonderful man. Thank you bye Cressida. Cal is the author of the how to train your dragon series and a lifelong fan of the late Albert or there. There's we reached her in London. And you can find more memories of Alberto there's on our website at CBC DOT CA Slash H. The Library of Congress might have the hottest mixed tape outright now. It's certainly the most ECLECTIC each year. The United States Library of Congress selects twenty five recordings to be preserved for posterity and added the national recording registry. Today the list of Twenty Twenty inductees was released and it does not disappoint. Here's a taste saw beautiful lanes for which good folks no doggy. Dogg and Dr Dre. Don't make it added in order from the top. That was the theme from Mister Rogers neighborhood. Dr Dre as nothing but a G Thang Baseball Announcer Russ hodges famous. Nineteen fifty one shot heard round the world. Home run call. I think the giants won the pennant in that one and finally Whitney Houston's I will always love you those are just some of the twenty. Five recordings added today to the National Recording Registry by the United States Library of Congress. Liberia Carla Librarian. Carla Hayden called the twenty twenty selections quote the ultimate. Stay at home playlist. You've been listening to the as it happens. Podcast our show can be heard Monday to Friday on. Cbc Radio One and on Sirius Xm following the world at six. You can also listen to the whole show on the BBC listen APP. Download it for free from the APP store or from Google play. Thanks for listening. I'm Carol off. I'm Ali Hassan for more. Cbc PODCASTS GO TO CBC DOT CA slash podcasts.

United States Canada Boston cheetos president Donald TRUMP CBC Carol Prime Minister Trudeau CHEETO Ottawa United States Library of Congr Albert senator Andrew Scheer Senator Warner Ali Hassan
August 10: Pressing on

As It Happens from CBC Radio

50:01 min | 9 months ago

August 10: Pressing on

"Keith MacArthur unlocking bryson's brain is a podcast about my son. I am. The rare disease that keeps him from walking or talking Bryson's perfect. His life is really hard and our families search for a cure. All my gosh maybe science is ready for this. It's part memoir part medical mystery. We can do just about anything modifying DNA. Heart, in my throat cure his controversial unlocking braces brain subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. This is a CBC podcast. Hello I'm Peter. Armstrong and I'm Ali Hassan. This is as it happens the podcast edition. Tonight pressing on journalists in Hong Kong say they won't be deterred from reporting on politics and the regions pro democracy movement despite an alarming rate on a major newspaper and its founder Competitive Advantage researchers in the UK compare thousands of soccer matches from before and during the pandemic, the head researcher tells us he may have figured out what home field advantage is really all about ship wrecked oil pouring from a damaged cargo ship near the island nation of Mauritius has turned. It's clear blue waters black. Our guest says it may be about to get much. Worse. Laying the ground when India's Prime Minister laid the cornerstone for a controversial new. Hindu temple our guest says he was also laying the groundwork for the further mistreatment of Muslims in the country we remember singer and performer slow me bay. She died over the weekend at the age of eighty six a friend and colleague tells us what made her Canada's First Lady of the Blues and Kitty quitter key political operative in the Foreign Office has resigned surprising his many fans his duties included photo ops with visiting dignitaries and killing as many mice as possible. As happens the Monday edition radio that nosy pounds of prevention is worth a pound of cure. Staffers at next digital and it's apple daily newspaper in Hong Kong. Say they'd been expecting some kind of crackdown but that didn't make today's police raid on their offices. Any less jarring this morning officers stormed into the building questioned reporters rifled through their belongings and left with more than two dozen boxes of documents at the same time. Police arrested next digital founder Jimmy Lai along with a number of other company executives and political activists. Mr Lies is the highest profile arrest yet under Hong Kong's controversial. Security Law and Chris Young says, it's a frightening attack on press freedom Mr Young is the chair of the Hong Kong journalists. Association we reached him in Hong. Kong. Chris. Tell me about today's police operation. We're talking what hundreds of police officers involved right yes. What we bought until hundred. Is. Unprecedented I, think we had never seen such A. Massive safe police raid at the media organizations. In Hong Kong full full full many case I. Myself have never seen such an in his horrifying I think to a lot of journalists are having seen. Police officers around every corner of the newsroom. In addition, of course, to we had the raid on the apple daily offices, Jimmy Lai, number of others were arrested. What do we know about the other individuals who were detained today? most of them are senior executives in the bowl of a Nixon. Media Group Of course, the details are unclear at this moment all of. The the main thing of course will be initiative security law which carries. A maximum sentence of life imprisonment. and their case at least ten years in jail. If convicted it just happened at the police arrests in a student leader Atlas Child on suspected rich of a national security law. So it seems that now about one in the Hoffman's all after the there should security me fat they have kind of intensified the the enforcement and perhaps more cases of arrests follow by prosecution will follow. This almost this exact scenario is what everyone was so concerned about when this new national security law was was passed and was introduced a I mean you know Jimmy Lai's made no secret of his criticisms the Communist Party he's been arrested many times in the past with this new law in place. What makes his arrest? So different this time. the the low I think will become a pretty powerful say political tour to send to jail because I one major crime, you will be facing his collusion with foreign forces which is illegal define and be say politically manipulated. To say, coca a case. We don't know whether it will be at the case will be even a how in local call it because under the law, the the mainland authorities have say decision to say I have power designs say whether that case should be Okapi Hendel in Maine Courts but even on call 'cause the the protection to say defendants is highly questionable because the law. Is being written in the way that is well, you get serious trouble deal. If you face if you face charges of those crimes, all what what do we know at this point about what this raid really means for his media company next digital the apple daily newspaper I mean are they going to be able to continue publishing? In the short run of course. The they have a lot of support in this society is a protest and there's a sense of crisis. So one indicator, of course, is a share prices up sharply because of supporters buying the shares and and some even said that they're going to buy the newspaper moral you even you carry nothing but just right paper. So I think that's the kind of a sentiment. Among their supporters and among the Mauka support us here. But that may be short run in It probably won't take long for the newspapers to face be. Hot. Times in for instance stabilizing their stuff sentiments. giving promises on how they're going to carry on their work without facing threats to the personal safety of journalists. They have already faced problem in getting advertisement and for many years because also the political trouble Jimmy Lai was was facing saw. Advertised says a fear of offending China so avoid putting ads in the newspaper so they can only survive on say street sales and also supporters and others also. So the major source of advertising revenue already been cut because of political reasons. So they they will face mall both difficulties He knew well, even in the short runs, the change that we're seeing has come. So quickly I mean over the summer, we've seen a bunch of arrests pro democracy candidates disqualified from elections pro democracy scholars fired from their jobs the upcoming elections been delayed by year, and now all of this when you sorta pile all those things together, what do you now expect to happen what's coming next? I think a lot of people here in Hong Kong now just don't have high expectations that the well live will return to normal in the near in the Niran Be We're going to face a lot of unknowns, uncertainties, supplies says. And Anthony ugly scenes. I like what we see now today in in the newsroom in this building journalists have expect that what have happened in a society like Hong Kong people here I will rations they they build up as a very successful Hong call from nothing, but it seems that within months we ain't what we are doing a lot of south destructions. Of what we have done. In the past case food hot work and diligence and and an enterprising spirit of our older generations. Very Sad. It's very sad development phonecall. It's It's been quite something to watch from afar as well. Chris. Thank you so much for making the time today. Thank you. Chris Young is the chair of the Hong Kong. Journalists Association. We reached him in Hong Kong and for more on this story visit our website at CBC dot. CA SLASH AI H. It's by far the worst oil spill Mauritius has ever experienced on July twenty fifth Japanese cargo ship ran aground on a coral reef just off the small island in the Indian Ocean and since then nearly a thousand tons of oil have leaked into the ocean and onto the shore, the spill has damaged important ecological habitats and left the island scrambling to save already endangered animals. Now, residents fear that the ship which still has oil on board is about to break into Senio. Dorka sing is a former global strategist for Greenpeace and former member of parliament. He's been taking part in the recovery efforts. We reached him incur- PEOP-, Mauritius. Do Arcus and you've been at the site of this spill. Can you describe what you saw when you were there? What what I saw was like a horrible stream of black substance. Coming ride from the reefs and and slowly dispersing around on the shoreline and this was like heavier very thick. Nostra smelling heavy oil was deposed. You did on the shoreline of Mauritius more than fifteen kilometers of Costa shoreline has been. Impacted by pollution and can you give us a sense of what kind of damage had? This has already caused the ecosystem? Where they shipped wrecked The she's in the locker room the largest wounded we have on the island. Like who used to be a query and two thousand one when sentence extraction was. Banned and what during San, extraction all these like and coral were killed. It was literally dead everywhere, and now after fifteen years we saw course regenerating in this whole going. So I see an hour this spilled we might be losing the stock will again. Citizens have really answered the call when this emergency struck, they've been taking it upon themselves to do what they can to protect the coast, protect the wildlife, paint a picture for us of what people are doing. What first of all, it was a sense of revolt. When this happened because you should as most you know that the shift wall stay on on on the reefs and twelve days no offer these government didn't react to it to anything about a lot this wreckage I don't know why what they were waiting for to act. So that created that was sense of revolt when when when they will this. But then their first reaction was lettuce mitigate the pollution and by themselves and by the by the by the changes spirit the built up locally made a booms out of sugarcane strolls, using plastic bottles and all and stop it. Going inside the lagoon and relate on all these locally made boom so that a pretty to prevent further spreading of the oil that was already in the water and that was very very, very effective I can say, so yes, the society is very, very much involved. It's their country it's the island it's their beach. So they love their places and they want to fight against disposition. You talk about these locally made booms that people are. Making to to try to to to control the oil that's in the water I I read somewhere that people are actually cutting off their own hair to to help create these booms. What's going on there? Yeah. In fact, in fact it's known technique. It's known technique that Gross Hale and like you know stores and all the hall of the Military and capacity to contain all I, think one Kiddo of and eighty of oil. So, and and if you see pictures of these booms, really are really effective. My goodness and They've they've done something. Fantastic. outs off. As you say, the ship was on the reef for like ten or twelve days. What do we know what this point about how this happened? Well how this? Is Very strange story and and we don't know much in fact it's now that that enquiries being carried out because the staff and I think the captain will he can in current time. But what I can tell you is like what we what we learn is like. They entered our water our national goes Scott. Tried to reach out to the captain and for two hours continuously. The country wants not answering any phone, call the only phone, call the captain answered according to our National Coastguard. When was when she was already on the rich to see to send an SOS or I'm grounded now on the race but this inquiry that have started will window more in the days to come. We've already seen and you've described this horrific damage that's taken place. But the the concern now is that this ship that's already leaking will literally split into two and spit even more oil into the water how devastating with that be let me tell you that since yesterday there has been no leakage from the. Reason being that the tank that was damage has been successfully emptied by the local authorities, but they'll still two tanks on the ship and where you still have two thousand, five, hundred domes of your and heavy oil they are. So if that is not being removed and by by any accident in the days to come. This oil is still on the shape and she breaks into which is most probably going to happen so. If that happens and if we haven't cleared all the oil from this, the remaining oil from the tanks. I I just imagined what's going to happen I'm afraid. I'm afraid of when I when I tried to visualize that scene. How are people on the ground reacting to seeing what kind of devastation can be caused by a spill like this they sense of revolt in the country. If you look at the social media, if you look at how people are reacting and claiming that the minister, the minister responsible must resign and go so they sense of revolt but that sense of revolt was overtaken by this love for the country and tried to save it first. So People House like turned down there the anger in to trying now to Perth even trying to prevent further damage to way because he's Stanford managed to our show line you don't it was like so -vivor instinct but that sense of anger is still there. All right. We'll have to keep an eye on it but thank you so much for making the time to speak with us today. Thank you. So Neil Dorka sing is an environmentalist and former member of the parliament. We reached him incubate peop-. Mauritius. A Long. Long. Wait no we each. I'm just a woman. Who? Only When you should feel. That is Salami basing I am blue from one, thousand, nine, hundred album I like your company Salami Bay had many talents as a performer. She was a singer and actor a writer and a director or work in music and theatre won her many awards the of Canada and also the reputation is Canada's first lady of the Blues Salami Bay died this weekend. She was eighty six years old here. She is speaking with ski and morningside in Nineteen eighty-one. BLUES IS A. Something that we all get I'm not saying, we can all sing it. But It's it's commenting on. What is down feeling in our lives I mean. They can be a happy approach to the blues. Also, you can talk about my man show loves me and I love the way he loves me you know and that's nice. And I think we can all. We can all the blues. What is it is it is it partly that it's so close to real life that it's folk music in the real meaning of folk music that makes it so rich and to to sing into listen to I. I think that's it. I mean you know like if if I go into a club and I hear a Etta James. Or? You know whatever one is considered as jazz one is considered as blues once considered as rhythm and blues and an I get the same feeling. To me these are all categories they put us in I guess this full commercial reason you know, and then this is a folk music country and Western and I listened to. Willie Nelson. In a wasting saying blues, but it's called country and Western. And I listened to somebody else saying blues in its call Rhythm and Blues and somebody else saying, blues as call pop. So I don't know I don't know I. I myself get a little turned off with all these names. Salami Bay speaking with Peters ski the host of Morningside in February nineteen eighty-one. Ms Bay died on Saturday. Daryl ally was her production director for many years. He was also her friend. We've reached him in Toronto. Their unsold. Sorry for your loss. How are you doing? I'm doing. Well, thank you very much. I'm so glad our producer found that clip of Salamis speaking with Peter Saskia morningside what was it like for you to hear your friend talking about the blues and what it meant to her? Well it brought back great memories because she was so much of a champion of black music in general and trying to break down barriers was also pack of. Disease she really enjoyed explaining those things. Because Basically Salami understood that Blues Music was at the root of American Popular Music that the Georgia Sea Island singers were as important as any pop group that America had produced and that you could find it and as she said in Willie Nelson her and country music and folk was always there sort of underneath everything else of course and I, mean when we think of liquor? Richard Buddy guy he's A. Completely different styles of music. In the sense of what they represent, but the root of it is exactly the same music, the same cards. And the same type of expression. Tell us about the first time. You saw slow me Bay perform what what do you remember about that night. I remember being pretty much thunderstruck mid I saw because I had not met before I had not known. Anything about it as a matter of fact, her husband who was a friend and associate wanted to me go and see my wife performing namely pseudo. Maybe she's at Global Village. and. Introduce yourself afterwards back snitch. And then here comes this. punning. Black woman with African features and the most middle diffuse contralto voice I mean. She could go from deep deep down all the way up and from a whisper to a scream with tremendous range and. For me, it was mind blowing would probably be the best expression. No I mean her talent of singing translated into musical theatre as well. Tell us what you remember most about her her contribution to. Well I worked. In a drama at one stage radio no music whatever and I remembered how no-one's to performance was and how careful she was about going about doing that and then of course, I worked with with indigo which was the groundbreaking a shattering. MUSICA in. TORONTO. which transformed. For many of us, black performers, black artists, the industry because here she was she was writing this thing for a long time and I remember doing backers. Additions is five, seventy six. We're just my cellphone Haina microphone under like a follow spot. She pushed and pushed and decided that I wanted to do this with all those black artists in town who don't get regular jobs in. Because I know them. I know they're good and we're GonNa do this rich she refused to compromise. What was it? Was it just that sort of genuine nature of it what was it about the production of indigo that just made it so successful I think one of the things just the energy indigo a bathroom. None of the songs in in Indigo, when you in that sense too many people were known but to us, they were not mu. But because of what Salami had envisioned, we had a collective energy that decided that we are going to make this great and we found ways. To inject that energy into the show at every level of the show and that was it audiences game and rural appreciation. Every night we were sold for thirteen months nonstop. Just Mathis. This tells us so much about the artist about the performer. Tell us a bit about what slummy money was like off the stage as as your friend. She was so marvelous I. It's amazing. She was complex. All off offstage she was Djamil. She was quiet almost shy. Sent to to to speak unless she actually knew she was guided but she was devoted to family and friends. She was tender She's also very political for example, with Indigo said, we have to make this statement about like artists in Toronto. We have to show them that we deserve a spot in the brake light like everybody else, and that's how I got my break and that's how. Many other people got their breaks because Salami pave that road and insisted that will good enough. Let's show them who we are P was busy with. Organic Sushi was. About the environment about civil rights about mankind about humanity, she was that company and at the same time she was a hurricane force. When we look back at Salamis Legacy, what do you think it will be Canadian Blues and and Canadian music I am overjoyed already see what she has left I'm sure people like her contemporaries perhaps younger like. To Borough tabby. Johnson has always had a good career jet Jackie Richard Soon the Sean Jackson's The. Are Speaks Dan Brooks they all came through that seventies era and they all got more notice after indigo. We all did and today when I hear Julie Black. Some other young black senior I go. Thank God. Salami was to make that breakthrough because before that don't forget doors were largely closed. We did pieces of Indigo in the Eaton Centre, as at lunchtime to make people we don't. Go you were doing. Yes. We we did off all sorts of stuff like that. You know. But we needed to break. We needed to break down to do and that we really exist and we could actually do. As. Well as anybody else in performing. Well, it's an amazing story and it's an amazing life and Daryl I'm just so grateful you're able to come on and share some of these stories with us today. Thank you very much. I appreciate the opportunity and I still continue to live in the inspiration that just left by me and live with a commitment to delivering the best that we can all time. She was. No doubt. All right. Well, thanks so much. You're welcome. Thank you very much. Good. Darrell away is both a friend and former colleague of Salami Bays Ms Bay died on Saturday she was eighty six. The. He smashed pretty much every billboard and streaming record that matters it has already been streamed more than a billion times people still to this day point to this is the moment everything changed. But whether you agree with those claims are not this podcast isn't really about him either you're not an astute businessman or you're inherently racist when it comes to black music in this country, this is not a drake podcast available now on CBC listen or wherever you get your podcasts. That I'm wrong. From you. To. US Once Mall. Man. Giant wheel. But I do wish to say that official that I'm wrongfully right now. Uncover season seven. Dead Wrong. Killed Tipple if they ask ninety nine. Available on CBC listen and wherever you get your podcasts. When professional soccer players returned to the pitch this summer they were greeted with silence. No cheers claps certainly no ole-ole as soccer during a pandemic means once packed stadiums sit empty and the rowdy chance from home supporters are replaced with the sounds of a ball being kicked around field but researchers at the University of reading saw an opportunity in the strange spectacle of covid era soccer they compared more than six thousand, four, hundred matches played before, and during the pandemic with the goal of finding out what effect live crowds have on the home team's chances economics professor James Read was part of the study we reached him in Didcot England. I read what happens to a team's home advantage when there aren't any fans in the stands. is a little bit less noise huge amount less. You might expect it to be a lot less especially given. There are no funds, the shouting and cheering especially wedding Germany all the known themes couldn't win, but we're looking at seventeen countries and six thousand matches. We find out you the effects is is not fight bigotry. And yet the one area that did seem to get affected was the behavior of referees showing what have we see fewer yellow cards to way teams. There's enough. The awaiting seem to be less harshly punished if you like they get still yellow cards in these matches, not fact he's really quite struggled really quite significant suggesting that it is the referees while there anything else because we're looking at these are the specs of the game the goals scored the outcomes even red cards. the same kind of effect it seems that the batteries are being influenced at being influenced by the crowd. Laugh or not when the crowd's not there. What do you think explains that? Is that just the crowd getting on the raft to try to goad him into into to calling yellowcard. There's a lot of evidence or quite a bit of evidence out there about social pressure on vessels. So when this? Crowd President, it does have some kind of influence. So the studies of how Directories Watch fouls on Games. With the sound turned off on a video number determined turned on and they call more fouls when the sound is turned on the example of the researchers looked to injury assignment and do games, and if the home team's losing with a bigger crowd, the home team gets more injury-time turn things around. So I mean people are going to pour over this data to try to figure out where they can get an advantage. What does this tell us about what factors might give a team? Any kind of home advantage in a game? Well I think the main thing to say is that it appears to be there for your influence. So we've tried to look at the idea of familiarity as well. So one of the explanation as to why a team will win off when he's playing in its home stadium is more familiar with the surroundings and so one of the audience especially when Germany we started. Was it. The players weren't familiar with playing without fans and low behold once it became more familiar, they began to win more dame's now that might that was certainly true for Germany but is not true over the seventeen countries that we looking. And so the only real thing we left with this referee effect. I guess teams be ethical. They don't want to influence the referee kind of. Way. Totally show what the policy implications of this are the implications for the organizers sports leagues of. Course says. Are Susceptible to social? Time pressure as well. So maybe we need to think about ways in which we would use that pressure on the referees. So maybe that's the real takeaway finishes for the Sports League organizers while on the teams themselves. This article about your your research was bouncing around a what's at Chap, the group that I'm in, and it was all these fans huge supporters of various clubs that are as you probably know convinced that they have a material impact on the outcome of every game. You Know How many times have I heard these guys say I can't come tonight the team needs me defense actually matter when you look at the data. Well I mean I'm a fan myself. Right. So I think that when I've been in my teams I've played a role as well. Yeah. The thing that says I think I. Think we've got to with. This is ongoing research thing that want to tease out little boys, the different kinds of matches. So the way I look at. Founds come. Shortly be a positive influence when they're really chain behind the team and pumps in the team is the underdogs Welt but equally you, we've all been those kinds of games where stadium's half empty and your team's not doing as well as it should against pops Amisi opposition and certifies can build their own helpful towards the teams outcome. So you want to look a little bit more the real nuance, the kind of the intricacies in the relationship between funds and outcomes. We have to matter to some extent. Of understanding a bit more out the detail of that relationship. Now, a lot of the matches, a lot of football matches and indeed the NHL. The National Hockey League are playing matches in neutral venues. In the NHL, we've had to hub cities one in Toronto one in Edmonton both of the host cities were actually ousted from the play in round in the playoffs to play without them. Is there a sense of playing in neutral venues that might actually benefit the underdog in in some of those cases? Thing. Home advantage would help is, of course, the home team is up then the hunting an extra edge. Home advantage so they can remove that home advantage. Obviously helps the team it would away in the first place. So I'm familiar with Edmonton the oilers so I guess they'll play in Chicago and. Some element of of play a game behind closed doors, it used to be in football a punishment funds bathing, bobby twitter's a punishment. There's a belief that it must affect home advantage. Of course, police often end up being self fulfilling them play differently in play differently in these kinds of circumstances. So I think it has to happen to affect. It's just the great thing about I hate to call. covid nineteen a great thing but it's giving us a lot of data a lot of natural experiments to look at about the way in which playing in and out of that natural surrounds playing in different circumstances in football most substrates, drinks, breaks. So on also significant changes that would allow us to analyze think about the ways in which different influences on behavior and actions of some kind of impact. Do. You think is, is there a way we could better insulate referees from the kind of influence that fans do hold once they actually get back into the stands at some point in future. My. Senses. Dalil. Way To do that is is technology and of course, during technology properly as well. So they are in England hasn't been particularly popular. The been lots of controversies you have these has breath humble oil's in place being offside by the by the armpit and things like this But the point is that they are technology takes up pressure away from the officials. It has to be done properly as I say because in football, you've how this situation where the fans in the stadium don't know what's going on. Aiding things and not saying anything actually leaving the referees more the whims of the of the anger of the crowd technology is the way to do it but hopefully you in the right way in trump's bound kind of way. But nonetheless. JUICES THAT SPLIT Second. Free. Has To make a call. Listen, you've inspired some global debates around this stuff were grateful to get you on the show to talk about it. Thanks for doing this today. Thanks very much. James Reid is a professor of economics at the University of Reading. We reached him indeed caught England. Manitoba remains in mourning today on Friday at Tornado touched down near Verdon killing two teenagers. Carter Tilbury, and Shayna Barnett ski were both eighteen years old. They died after the tornado through them from their vehicle and both were from the town of Melita in southwestern Manitoba. Aaron Jack is an amateur storm, chaser. He was taking photographs of the storm on Friday. Night, he spoke to CBC Manitoba's Bryce Hoy. That moment, the tornado had just across the road and hit just hit the farm that's just across the field here from us right now, and so I had run across the road and into the field I wanted to get on the other side of the power lines view at the monster out in the field there. It was remarkable and. I wanted to get that shot that's been really resonate with people have been the one. And it obviously bid had touched down in that video but. What was it like for you to bodily to be so close something like that that as we know today was fatal it killed two people. Yeah. You know a lot of times around tornadoes you get violent winds and whatnot I can expand quite a ways out and this tornado the winds were more compacted and closer the tornado kind of an eerie calm there but will sticking. With me, the most is I know. I. Just witnessed the tornado hit the farmhouse there months clean the house want to get back to that farmhouse and make sure no one was injured or whatnot but I didn't expect when I got to the house. Actually the fine cars have been thrown off the road and fortunately no one was home at the House and the house was okay. Did do some damage grain silos and whatnot and so when I walked up to the car I yelled out the safe anyone was in there and sure enough I heard from the older gentleman that was in the Red Grand. Cherokee there is upside down in the in the ditch me he yelled out that you need help and so I sat there and was talking to him you're. Kind of comfort him while Machel at my fiance was also serves as she called nine one one and we waited fifteen minutes while that was all happening and comforting over and some other people showed up the emt came on was terrible that point we do not other people injured possibly deceased that out in the field and the firemen showed up, they came across some people young couple. Very, tragic news from just graduated from school and they found them out in the field there and y'all tornadoes are the remarkable and they're so dangerous like people have to take them seriously and I think people can sometimes get mesmerized by just all surreal it is and they don't. They don't realize that they're in the path of. Aaron J. Jack is an amateur storm chaser. He spoke with CBC Manitoba's Bryce Hoy. Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi made a trip out of the capital last week that was decades in the making. Almost. Thirty years ago in the northern town of a Yoga Hindu nationalists destroyed a mosque that they believe stood on the birth site of one of Hinduism Central God's Rome. At the time, Narendra Modi was a worker in the Hindu nationalist party and he promised to return to your idea when a temple for ROM would be built on Wednesday moldy laid down the cornerstone for that, temple. While, it may be a moment of healing enclosure for Hindu nationalists. It's a very different different feeling for Indian. Muslims. The destruction of the mosque in Nineteen ninety-two led to riots across India in which thousands died. Run you was just nine years old at the time. She's now a journalist well known for investigating Modi and his political party. We reached MISSI UBE in Mumbai. How does it feel for you personally to see the construction begin on the rump temple. Oh you. I was about nine when the bobby must shit which was a symbol of faith or about two fifty, million Muslims in the country was demolished and anti demolition was like a spectacle of fascism in the country I have memories which I wanted to erase I wanted a closure because that demolition led to the carnage of about a thousand Muslims all over India, and me and my family being displaced from our candy over the years we have seen instances of fascism and communal carnage in India, that in the Mr Harijans pandemic. The Prime Minister of the country who since he hazard? Dibaba in twenty fourteen has only guy. Given a least respond agenda three days ago kind of lays the foundation to a temple over a mosque that was demolished in a criminal act and the Supreme Court van der calls it a criminal act you feel ushered in your own country. You feel that you know you have new respectability as an equal citizen of this country and. Like second class citizen in your own country than a symbol of your feet, it's not just demolished. hindu-nationalist led by Brandon has constructed over it, and it's like a spectacle because the images of it a splash on times square well, and images, not just of the temple being built. But of the Prime Minister himself laying the cornerstone how did his visit his? Involvement in in the construction of this temple go over with with Indian Muslims. Last week Indiana missiles are used to the Prime Minister of India active not just did one point, three, billion Indians but as a Hindu nationalist I as a Hindu man in a Hindu leader for us. So Indian Muslims have had a day fair for the last six years we. Must also remember that Mr Moody was the Chief Minister of Gujarat. In two, thousand and two when a dozen Muslims were massacred over a period of three days and the Supreme Court of India called him a Modern Day Niro who look the other way when innocent Muslims and women on children were butchered so Muslims were used to the idea but to see. Him being the Prime Minister of the country actually attack the symbol of faith for Muslims in the country and lay the foundation stone over a piece of land that was criminally polished by Hindu nationalist I. think it said the agenda for the next few years for Muslims. In the country Muslims have been living with inferior in apprehension it just validated older apprehensions. I mean from a political standpoint at this time in this moment, what do you think the president is trying to say, bye bye presiding over the laying of the cornerstone being so instrumental in the beginning of this construction. Since the Prime Minister in the movie came to cover. The first thing he did was revoked the special status of Chamade all which is the only muslim-majority state in India and because seem decades of insurgency and many offense you disappeared the special status was a healing factor for many committees and slowest thing that you do after you're on to. The second German father in two thousand, nineteen followed by adopting the citizenship amendment act read everybody except Muslims from the neighboring states of India will begin citizenship in India and then following up. With something like this key is sketching to eighty two percent Hindu majority because he knows that says would bank he is not walking to work in inclusive in secular. India is walking tours laying the foundation of a Hindu India because he knows politically the only thing that will a have him and the BJP survive in follow because the government has not Deli word in terms of development unemployment is at an all time high India's economy is an all time. Miss India ranks number three in the highest number of cases, accord nineteen. So in the absence of any development in the absence of any work, the prime minister stalking majoritarianism to stay in power and I think he succeeded in doing that and you can hear some of that in in this speech, he gave in front of the site. He said, you know this temples an instrument to unite the country that the God roms the basis of all. Indian. Culture. Say then to do nationalists who want to pay tribute to what they see as as a sacred site for them are not building inclusive India by building around temple. We must not forget that in nineteen, ninety, two by the bobby mustard was demolished. It was considered a criminal act. This was not the priority for especially for country, which is still enmeshed in fundamentalism just do these off the the construction of Ram Temple a Muslim man was beaten iten rods and sticks, and he bled on the streets he was made the John. Jesse Dombi is. The number of lynchings between twenty fourteen to twenty, nine, hundred, I'll go up to about hundred in which Muslims have been lynched on the agent at their bill has been pulled off and they have been gold as those who eat beef and have been attacked for the religious identity. So I think what has happened is instructional around with has led to the embodiment off the Hindu nationalists who think that it is now right to humiliate Muslim senator dean basis. The whole world has been watching this story unfold I. Wonder what you'd like to see from the international community and what they hear when when they hear the word, I, O the and and see this temple. You know the world has been complicit in its silence because for the last six years, Mr Multi has been floating his Washington majority data agenda and despite the eggs most world leaders have not sent a statement of condemnation especially ran donald trump was in Delhi dispirited when he was taking part in dinner hosted for game and just betty miles of Muslims have. been killed. In anti-muslim garnered a New Delhi and the next day Donald Trump gets a statement that Mr Moody is doing the right thing and it's not just donald trump one leaders who have an important say have looked the other way as Indian democracy. The world's largest democracy goes down under and that is applicable also to the Muslim leaders across the. World who had given me the highest civilian autos for their business interests and have not spoken would about Moody's complicity in in the enabling of hidden India out owed them to protest always international energy to make sure the wolves dot largest democracy remains seconal inclusive country that again, meaning Hindus across the world should make their voices loud and clear in their. Condemnation of the making of Kim do state as opposed to what India used to be a secular democracy that the dreams of Gandhi at Mahatma Gandhi who we all quote Anhui reveal. This country means the land of Gandhi. So it's time the wall speak southern. It's time Indians advil meaning Indians all over the blog speak up about this everyday decline a fandango fascism. You thanks for speaking with us today. Thank you so much. Ube is journalist in Mumbai and that is where we reached her. As you no doubt been hearing on the news a sudden departure of a high level bureau cat has left the public in the British reeling the resignation of Palmerston chief Mouser at the UK's for an office came out of nowhere giving many pause. In his official resignation letter posted on twitter Palmerston rights of the newfound joys of working from home. He says it was the slower pace of corona virus constrained life that led him to realize it was time to step away from office life the black and white rescue cat has held the chief mouser position since two thousand sixteen and his tenure has not been without controversy. He made headlines more than once for his aggressive political style and occasional violent clashes in particular with Larry his esteemed counterpart at number ten Downing Street. Nevertheless, Palmerston has by and large been a model diplomat often photographed with visiting dignitaries and executing his duties with dedication that was nothing short of Rochas. A colleague reminisced on twitter about the time. He left quote a slightly chewed dead mouse next to my desk end quote in his resignation letter Palmerston noted that his new official living quarters in the countryside of him more ample time to engage the local rodent population are replacement has not yet been appointed, but no doubt will soon since you know. Cats people love them. You've been listening to the as it happens podcast our show can be heard Monday to Friday on CBC. Radio. One. Following the world at six you can also listen to the show on the web at CBC dot Ca Slash Ah. Thanks for listening. I'm Peter Armstrong. I'm Ali Hassan. Dan. From For more CBC PODCASTS TO CBC DOT CA slash. PODCASTS.

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October 19: Damage control

As It Happens from CBC Radio

50:38 min | 7 months ago

October 19: Damage control

"There are caused that take you from a to B. Then there's the new mini countryman the mini SUV with space for every escape all-wheel-drive for every road and minis renowned handling to boot it won't just take you from A to B. It'll take you everywhere. You want to be inspire your drive in the new mini countryman the many SUV explorer for yourself by taking a virtual walk around at many don't see. This is a CBC podcast Hello I'm Carol off, and I'm Ali Hassan this is as it happens the podcast edition. Tonight damage control as Nova Scotia's lobster fishing dispute gets even more tense. We ask Indigenous Services Minister Mark, Miller, how much longer both sides need to wait for his government to come to the table approval rating many police unions in the United States have endorsed Donald Trump but some black officers speaking out saying taking the president's side is a betrayal herd mentality. Sweden famously took a more hands off approach to covid nineteen restrictions. Officials there say it's working but our guest says the numbers tell a different and much darker story. You Sush Orange after Friday's murder of schoolteacher in France critic safe French authorities are blaming a whole Muslim community for the crime of one Deja flu people in Ontario. Another said of long lines, tricky appointments and short supplies. This time the trouble is with flu shots something one doctor calls hunt acceptable and heavy hitter many in the elite echelons of big vegetable growing have gone high-tech but our guest kept it. Old School didn't put his prized pumpkin anywhere near a scale before competition day. As. It happens the Monday edition radio that always strives to be ahead of the car. The federal government is scrambling to stop a volatile situation in Nova Scotia from getting even worse after violence and threats from non indigenous fishermen. Last week, a lobster pound was burned to the ground in a suspicious fire over the weekend. At issue is the MEKA fishermen asserting their right to operate a moderate livelihood by harvesting lobster outside the commercial season. That's what the Supreme Court granted more than twenty years ago in one thousand, nine, hundred, ninety, nine treaty, right non-indigenous fishermen in southwestern Nova Scotia that kind of harvest is ecologically unsound jeopardizes lobster stocks. Mark. Miller is Canada's indigenous services minister we reached him in Ottawa. Minister Miller. It seems that there's one point that all sides in this bitter dispute agree on and that set the federal government has failed everyone indigenous fishermen, commercial fisherman, the conservation groups. Will you accept responsibility? Well Carolina. Point where we have to acknowledge the the fault lines that still do exist with respect to implementation of the Marshall. Decision to say that. Nothing has been done in twenty years would be would be factually wrong yet. That's probably cold comfort to the my people today who feel under attack and under assault. And and Physically they're. They're at risk particularly in the water where it can get quite dangerous but don't you think it's not just the indigenous fishermen. Everyone wants everyone we've spoken with believes the federal government needs to step in and do something and it's not just one side against the other. They're. The one thing they do agree on is that t that this has been messed up by the federal government. Well. Look We could sit around and examine failure over over or not only decades but but but centuries and and nothing would get done in the last few weeks. Obviously, everyone has reacted with legitimate horror over. What shouldn't happen in any country let alone let alone Canada and obviously there's a there's a need to act and that is why Minister Blair in. Particular. has agreed to a request of government another Scotia to reallocate resources the RCMP to make sure everyone stays safe. Obviously law and order has to be retained the MIC. My people have been let down by the police and we saw that on Saturday morning is everyone woke up to see a fish plant in flames, and then prior to that the assault of of chief sack on that point on the rcmp being a having to the indigenous people down. Is a federal police force. So the finger gets pointed back again at your government. So you say that that this that somehow this independent police force has failed done, we're has been the resources where has been the mandate for them to have stepped in. That's what we heard from chief sack. We heard from other people in in non-indigenous Fisher men who've said that they have been threatened, they're looking for to the RCMP and. They're not seeing the mandate of the resources there. Well, look I think it's important to set the record straight on on how the RCMP works. It has actually delegated police force in Nova Scotia, which which then therefore falls under the authority of the Nova Scotia government I again, coal comfort for people who feel betrayed by it, and they expect the federal government to step up and that is why we have stepped up. There have been to arrest. There are many investigations ongoing We need to let that increase police force protect people that haven't necessarily felt protected by police, and then over the next days continue goes difficult nation nation discussions that need to happen in order to. Perfect the right that has been acknowledged. In the Marshall Decision, but the hard work needs to be done outside the public eye with the MIC, my people but it has to be done in a peaceful sense of order in that isn't hasn't been the case in the last we'll talk but this moderate livelihood, which is what you're speaking about in that they're the right the the courts gave, and you say nation to nation talks to resolve how that is actually applied. That's also the court said. And so who else is it that table I mean, we spoke with the nonindigenous fishermen. Last week's at times we've spoken with them. They think they should be at the table to they have a place. Are you are you including them in your discussions? Well, there is a time and place in a sequence tall this nation to nation discussions there is no place for third parties. There is absolutely no question that the same time that there is a greater discussion to be had about the state of the fishing industry and I want to make clear that indigenous a portion of the fishing industries is is miniscule in the in the grand scheme of things yet there is concerned obviously about conservation about the regulation and those discussions at some point that will have to be had with with commercial fisherman, but the key aspect and. All this has to be done in a in an atmosphere of peace and order which hasn't been afforded today in September your colleague Minister Jordan put out a statement saying that fishing without a license is a violation under the fisheries act and anyone fishing outside the activities authorized under a license may be subject to enforcement action but you message now is that the magma do have a clear right to fish do understand how how confusing this mixed message is coming from the government, which is again pointing back. This idea why people are saying that that you have let them down. Look. What people absolutely do have a right to pursue a moderate livelihood they have been at odds with Department of fisheries notion for some time and This is a right that has been tested throughout time with the success at times and not in others. It's way to for people to have the right perfect his to have to go to court all the time entirely unacceptable in a country like Canada yet here we are, and so how do we resolve these government where? Yes people expect us to condemn. Untoward should never happened in our violent nature. They also expect us to act and sit down at a table and that's precisely what we did. Minister Jordan. An I in Carolyn. Bennett had an opportunity yesterday morning to speak with the assembly of Make Ma Notebook much chiefs. To parse Haute and work out how that password might look. Dumb. While we can't guarantee the outcome we are dedicated to to pushing these forward. Inexpedient timeframe there was a call from that from chief sack to bring in the army that he doesn't feel that the federal that the RCMP is doing the job to set yourself save let down the indigenous people we've thought we've seen it at Ohka. We've seen this happen before in Quebec, will you consider as your government considering sending in the army? I think you could use the oaken analogy I. Remind you of the temp ten years earlier there is also listed Gersh. People, there are many people that don't feel safe with with the army round as well. in oak being exact precise example of that now. The job of the armed forces should not be confused with the job of the police, which is serve and protect and keep people safe in the community really assurances from the government that they do have the resources to keep the situation under control and. They that to happen they have resources why haven't they been doing it up to now? Well. That's a question we can absolutely examine and I like many Canadians would would absolutely like some answers I suspect. You could probably say that through that a few a policeman can easily get overwhelmed by a mob, but perhaps there's a failure of intelligence on the ground. Those. Are Issues that we obviously should examine But right now we are in the middle of a situation that is is volatile of particularly my fear on the water and resources have and will continue to be reallocated to keep people safe just very briefly. Yes or no will is your government considering chief sacks request that you did you send in the army. I think this is something that we have to assess on the ground on a continuous basis as we as we looked to keep people safe I think this is an expression of trying to keep people safe. And I have. The assurance is currently that people are are are now in a situation where peace can be maintained in that is the proper role of the police. Okay. But you're not ruling it out. The role of the police is to keep the peace and we expect to be done. All right. We'll leave it. There Mr Miller. Thank you. Thank you. Mark Miller is Canada's indigenous services minister. He is in Ottawa. Eight months into this global pandemic and Sweden's health authority appears now to be tinkering with its code nineteen strategy. Today health authorities will start telling people to avoid places such as shopping malls, gyms, and concerts, and to avoid public transport or visiting the elderly. Those are new measures to Sweden. Last spring. All eyes were on the Nordic country as other countries. Lockdown Swedes were living life as usual school and work went on. There was talk of a herd immunity but the experiment has failed the latest data show Sweden's per capita death rate from cove nineteen is the twelfth highest in the world. Lena Einhorn is a Varela Gist author and filmmaker in Sweden and one of the dozens of people who is calling for tougher measures. We reached her in Stockholm. His Einhorn is the Swedish government finally willing to admit that it's approach to tackling the covid nineteen has failed. I haven't seen any such signs. No, you think they'll discontinue as they are. Well there have been incremental changes in the recommendations, there has never been an idea out there ever will be. Any. Kind of the mission of having made mistakes. But it does seem that the Swedish government is handing power back to regional health authorities to make its own decision. So is that a good sign? Well it's not really regional. It's actually the public health agency which is a national expert agency it. There is a tradition in Sweden to do this but in in very extreme crises, the government can can take over fully and they definitely have not. So it's not a good sign if you were to describe Sweden's approach to tackling the corona virus, what words would you use? I don't know am stubborn is probably the best word I can come up with I mean when they started their initial assumptions were fair they assumed it. This would be like SARS. They were convinced it's only spread from symptomatic people. So like source, you could isolate the symptomatic people and and stop the spread that way. So that was fair you know sometime in January it was not fair in April or in May So they stuck to that and one could say that when the spread really when it really hit Europe and and Sweden they did the opposite of our Scandinavian and Nordic neighbours Who went into lockdown and we did not they told people who are not symptomatic to when they came back from risk areas in in Italy and such to to go back to work and they had to go back to school. There was an idea that we heard from coming from Sweden in the spring and I guess he continued that Sweden would attempt something called herd immunity that if enough people were to contract the virus than eventually, there would be a general immunity enough within the population that it would have a better effect and locking things down and keeping people from getting it is that what happened? Well, this was the second stage. Once once the cases went through the roof and they really did for a few weeks, we have the highest per capita death numbers in the world. So what do they do? Well, they don't back down, they don't go into lockdown they don't put restrictions that our country did. So it has been assumed that they were going for her immunity, but they've been speaking with two sides of their mouths on the one hand. They've been denying it on the other hand they said, it would be a bonus and they said come fall and the second wave we will be much better protected than our Scandinavian neighbors who had ten times less deaths than we did. In relation to population, but it became very clear. Once broad testing of antibodies was being done that there was nothing close to her Muniz the I mean. Sweden. latest numbers I saw Sweden has between six and eight percent antibody positivity in the population in Stockholm has around twelve percent. Of course, they realized that they can't go for heard immunity it's going to kill too many people I, mean, it's already killed almost six thousand people in the population of ten million at the center of all this as we have followed, what's going on in is a man named unders tag Nell, Sweden's chief epidemiologist, and he seems to be a bit of a Rockstar in your country for the decisions he made people have tattoos of him why is he so popular? Part of it I'm sure is that when there is a national crisis, people want to believe in authority everywhere they want to do it. The other aspect is that he he has a very calming demeanor even when the numbers were going through the roof, he kept saying that we're flattening out where he we're hitting the peak. He had a way of sounding extremely calming. In combination with the fact that the government handed over all decision making basically to take nail in the public health agency, those were contributing factors and what do you think of Andrea Techno As a as an I have no opinions about him. Personally but I think he has not handled this well and he keeps on attending this well but you know just doesn't example Sweden is the only country together with Somalia Yemen, Eritrea. Syria Greenland and some Pacific islands who have. Still. No recommendations for facemasks whatsoever. So you know he hates facemasks a says, they don't help you have to understand in the Swedish hospitals. The doctors and nurses do not wear face masks. Eggs. And that's because they are told not to or because they believe it will make any difference. They referred to public health agency. When they when they motivated, it's hard to wear a face mask. Nobody else wears it and and when doctors are asked in official capacity why don't you wear face masks? Why don't you tell your staff to wear face masks? They always refer to the public health. Agency. There was a a freedom of information bunch of emails that were published by journalists in your country that show that Mr Tag Nel said that at one point that when it was suggested that ten percent of those who get the disease would be elderly maybe they would die ten percent might be worth it. He apparently said how much of the decisions are being driven by this idea that well, maybe we have to keep Sweden moving keeping the businesses open and that's part of the motivation. They will never admit that the economy is is is an aspect by the way Sweden's economy has not fared any better than its nordic. Neighbours we have ten times as many dead as Norway and Finland per-capita and five times as many as Denmark I mean these are horrendous numbers that we have in. There's no benefit from it. We you know the numbers now rising again in the fall and the rising more in Sweden than in on neighbor's. Yikes. All right. We'll leave it there Ms Einhorn I. Appreciate speaking with you. Thank you. Thank you so much. All right. Good night. Good night. Lane Horn is a garage gist author and filmmaker. In Sweden, you can find more on this story on our website CBC DOT CA Slash Ai H. Sometimes it's worth going that extra mile or even lots of extra miles. What if say you've managed to grow a truly Jain Norris Gourd you might take a look at that Pumpkin of enormous proportions and just know you're ready for the big leagues, which in this case is the forty seventh annual Safeway. World Championship Pumpkin way off a prize who's prestigious mast owned matched only by its payout seven. US dollars per pound and that can add up to a pretty penny all of which explains why Travis Ginga loaded up his growing project and made the trip from NOCA- Minnesota to half Moon Bay California, we reached Mr Gingrich in. Chavis, what's it like being on a road trip with a giant Pumpkin? It was actually Kinda stressful because if it cracks at all, you get nothing you're completely disqualified. So every bump every turn here kinda white knuckling so to speak. At the Rig where you're transporting the Pumpkin in. So I have my truck in dump trailer is what we actually brought in. So we had to kind of make some adjustments to make the suspension where it should be by adding some extra way to put it on a ride and yeah, because he didn't want bouncing around back there. Exactly, exactly, and so I any encounters along the way with your Pumpkin did people people asking you questions about it? Yeah. So the funny thing is is on the way out, we had it all carpet and wrap so it wouldn't lose weight on the way back we did not. But on the way there people are wondering why every gas station when wet blankets down and this and that they're like you transporting it Dolphin. Okay. So you did a case to still get you to the competition yet to get to half Moon Bay California with your Pumpkin Right Yup Yup thirty five hour trip. And had you ate it ahead of time did to have an idea of whether you had. We didn't. We had all the technology to pre way it and actually the girls thought I was kinda crazy to not pre way it and use go out there because it can go quite a bit heavier. It could go quite a bit light but I'm like you know what? That's half the fun of it. Did you think you had a good chance to winning the competition I did I wouldn't have went if I didn't but there's a couple of girls out there that. Definitely. Grow some big ones. So you just never know you arrived and then yeah, they waited in. Were you really nervous as they were doing that. Oh. Yeah. Well, and actually you know people are like asking me after the fact where you relieved when you see me twenty, one, seventy, four right before you and I said honestly not because. All these pumpkins throughout the day I mean there was only a few that went really heavy. other mad. They're all kind of going light and so I'm up on stage going just don't let this be a balloon. You know don't let this be a balloon whatsoever and when I see anything twenty, three, hundred, I was happy with. And when twenty, three fifty. Two, thousand, three, hundred, and fifty pounds for your Pumpkin. Holy and so it So you one. Yeah. So we won and with that. We got seven dollars a pound and. Trip to New York and yeah it was Kinda Neat what did you? What did you win in prize money then? So. Sixteen thousand four, hundred dollars. How That cover of Easter costs getting their impact on Minnesota Yeah I always say if you take the second or third, you know probably not. Probably. Equal thing there you're not making any money but Yeah, I, definitely do. All right everybody wants me to ask you the question as to how you did it. What was your secret? So. We there is no secrets in grow needs. It's all nine but you know I, started pretty early with my steed I watered quite a bit I've got great soil that have been modifying for. At, least four years now. So I've been building up that soil and then I fertilize quite a bit to then. Let the fertilizer in. Well, you just gave away the I. Guess this year a secret, which is whatever you're modifying that soil with right? Yeah. I would say I mean you you can do whatever you want but if you don't have the key ingredient of good soil. It's it's tough and and so you're in a no cut Minnesota. Yup. We growing this on a farm? It's it's like you can kinda consider it a hobby farm, but it's more than just a regular place with a backyard. A. Huge space you pumpkin in your backyard. Yeah. Yeah. Like literally walk out the door and it's right there and you have good soil. Yeah I didn't when I first moved in for sure. But even feeding it with. So Seaweed. So it's like a seaweed kelp mixture, right? And that's what it pretty much coast on all season. Maybe a little bit of potassium. For pumpkin. It all depends a lot of guys tissue testing soil test and I didn't really do much that this year I just Kinda knew what needed from years prior. And just gave it a little bit of everything. It's kind of weird shape. Isn't it? Will this one's actually great shape I? Mean this one's just. Fairly, round, fairly orange, whatever compared to most better this size can you make a Jackal Andrew none of it? Yeah. We we will. ACTUALLY WE WILL BE MAKING A. Big Tiger because it was nicknamed Tiger Kings. So it'll be all relief carved and look like real for. Okay. So you had the the biggest Pumpkin, the heaviest Pumpkin in North America this year but I understand there I mean I have some giant Pumpkin stats here that apparently twenty eighteen was the the largest in the United States from New Hampshire twenty five hundred pounds. Yup. And the largest if you if you're going for a world record, the largest heaviest Pumpkin in the world twenty sixteen the European Championships in Germany two, thousand, six, hundred pounds. Yes Cronin Belgium in climate controlled greenhouse. Okay. Oh Wow. That's not fair. Yeah Yeah actually I mean most people had this level kind of grow climate-controlled greenhouses and. Skipping hard not to compete like that. They're not growing it in their backyard like you. Yeah. Yeah I mean we have five process before September eighteenth. Well Travis big congratulations to you. Thank you. All right. Have a happy Halloween. Appreciate it. Thank you guys. Bye Bye. Travis Game Pumpkin One, the big prize at the Safeway World Championship pumpkin weigh off in California he spoke to us from a NOCA- Minnesota you can take in his giant Pumpkin called tighter king on our website CBC DOT CA slash I H. Do the work from three. UNCANNY four is a show at the intersection of race and personal relationships that untangled the uncomfortable offensive and sometimes downright racist moments that inadvertently occur her with our family friends and colleagues come examine our biases together and learn how to do the work of being anti-racist. You can listen to do the work wherever you get your podcasts. There ought cars that take you from a to B. Then there's the new mini countryman the mini SUV with space for every escape all drive for every road and minis renowned handling boot. It won't just take you from eight to be. It'll take you everywhere. You want to be inspire your drive in the new mini countryman the many SUV, explore it for yourself by taking a virtual walk around at many don't see A. US President Donald Trump tout's the endorsements he's received from police unions across the US. He's listed some of them at the first presidential debate. But some black police union members are not only embarrassed by those endorsements. They are angry Philadelphia's first black female sheriff for one called the National Police Union support for president trump an outrage. The endorsements come in the midst of months of demonstrations over police violence and systematic racism within forces. Terence Hopkins is the President of the Black Police Association of Dallas. Texas. We. REACHED HIM IN DALLAS. Mr Hopkins I know you got a call just yesterday from an officer who was quitting the Dallas Police Association, which is your main police union net because of the endorsement of Donald Trump what did that officers say to you? Well he basically made statements regarding how? He wasn't reached out to. For his feelings regarding that endorsement. The how does how how does he feel about that endorsement? Well he he doesn't feel that it. It reflects what he believes as a black man I and as a black officer is it because Donald Trump has said racist things and has endorsed racist physicians. Well, you know pretty much. I mean when you look at the campaign itself, some of the statements he's made I mean there's a large collection of people who believe that he does not do enough. To stamp out racism and when you're talking about minorities, that's a a very hot topic. Years is not the only one that has association that has endorsed Donald Trump. So are people feeling black police officers feeling betrayed by their unions. You know I think it would probably have to say that to a certain degree because again if a large segment of society regard him as someone who doesn't stand up to defend are in opposition to racism then you're pretty much just as much for it. So a lot of minorities are feeling that he promote that doesn't do enough to stop it or ended so they don't want to be associated with any groups that support him. But is it your feeling or is it? They're feeling? You can speak for everybody but is there a sense that that the these unions actually endorse or support? Donald Trump's statements is position on white supremacy and on some of the other racist tropes that he has indulged in I mean do they Are they supporting those ideas is that a feeling within your union? That is a feeling that has been expressed to me by some for sure. That's your fellow. White police officers support the ideas of white supremacy. Just? That's that's been expressed to me before. Yes, ma'am. What's it like for you to hear that expressed you among from your colleagues? You know what's hurtful and and you know I've never been one to paint with a broad brush and I know a lot of white officers don't feel that way but it's just the relationship and knowing some of the things that he's said before that have been so insightful that rubs a lot of folks. The wrong way because when we look at policing people want to believe or feel that they are safe with their police officers and and when you see something like this, what I get from a lot of African Americans is they feel that if you've supported someone else who supported some type of hate than how are you out there policing? Those minorities that you're sworn to treat properly protect to serve. Is it at all possible that some are worried about what they've heard from liberal politicians who are calling to defend the police. Is it possible that some of that endorsement of Donald Trump comes from from that camp For. Sure. You know the funding issues been another hot topic. It's been a political play from certain sides that you know. If you don't go this way, you're police departments will be funded and you're not won't call. We'll go unanswered. So you know now it's just made so political and weaponized. You know that in itself creates major problems. How. Much more difficult has this made? Being a police officer being a black police officer. You know there's so much division, the police officer associations and unions and police themselves want you to be on a certain side. The community wants you to be on a certain side So I, it's just tough all around. It's not an easy time right now our country. How unusual is it for police union steps you make a presidential endorsement. Well. This is my thirtieth year law enforcement I. Just do not recall it ever happening here in Dallas like this is not the norm. You must have seen it coming though, and we saw police association leaders on stage with Donald Trump supporting him even after George Floyd even after all of the different cases of of the films, we've seen the videos of black people being killed by police that they have been strong supporters of Donald. Trump's politics right and that's what makes it so difficult you know it's like you know we're we're split down way lines and you know I it's not good. Get any better anytime soon. And show you know there are a lot of what if scenarios being bandied about that following the results of this election. There might be violence that there might be violent reactions to that vote and so. How difficult is it going to be to actually police when there's a perception that the police are in in bed with with one side of that election or is definitely gonNA be harder it's tougher already. So, yeah down the road. If certain things take place I think it's going to be a lot harder owners in this country has law enforcement when we deal with minorities. And that is a potential reality. Do you worry about what's going to happen in the days after the election. I do that is actually part of my job with protest groups and and the marches and demonstrations and things of that nature. So yeah it it worries me. Let's see greatest fear. Is that violence and may break out at somebody's demonstrations and protest? You know we we all. Want everybody to exercise their First Amendment Rights. But you know we we know that sometimes that comes with the violence. Mr Hopkins will leave it there. Thank you. My pleasure. Terence Hopkins is the President of the Black Police Association in Dallas. Twin Democ by now, you may have heard the term it's something doctors warn could happen when both the flu and cove nineteen are circulating this winter, and if it's a bad flu season. Doctors fear that hospitalizations could overwhelm the healthcare system. The good news demand for the flu shot is way up but some family doctors in Ontario say their early supply is already drying up the health minister says, the province will be receiving a large shipment of shipment of the vaccine soon to meet the demand but at least one Ottawa doctor is comforted by those words, Dr Ali Khan Abdulah spoke to CBC about his concerns. I got one hundred, ten doses when I normally expect five hundred typically gets fifteen hundred over a month and we have no idea what the next shipment was coming. How many high risk patients do you have who will need this vaccine I? Of calculated the numbers we have about three hundred and thirty under the age of five or one thousand over sixty five and many hundreds that are considered high risk. So let's say two thousand total. So how are you going to decide who gets the vaccines first season that exactly the rub right you know the hundred and ten we'll go to the ones that are coming in that meet those criteria, and then we'll go through the alphabetical list. We really can't triage who are the highest risk of those two thousand and we have to hope that by the time we're done another batch comes in. The health minister said that there are no shortages of vaccines. We got a statement saying that the province has ordered more vaccines than other years it'll just arrive in multiple shipments why in your view is that not good enough So the the minister is not incorrect. They did order twenty percent more. The problem is, is that they created advertising You Know Marketing Plan that let people know that flu vaccines are the absolute critical thing that they need to do. So they've created artificial demand a bit of hysteria. So to speak, and in fact, if you think about it, I was supposed to get five hundred I got one, hundred ten there's no excuse for that. There's no explanation for that. There's no one you can talk to about that. You may have enough supply, but if you can't get it to the people that actually need to give the shots that there is a problem in policy. What is the risk in some of your patients waiting a little bit longer for the vaccine? The risk is the is here in the community people are exposed to with in addition to the possibility of Covid, and then therefore they're worst outcomes for their health. So we do want to get the job done within a month, but if we're getting one hundred, ten vaccines in whatever frequency, we're not going to get to the numbers that we need to get to. That's unacceptable. That's Dr Ali Khan Abdulah speaking with auto morning host, Robin Bresnahan about his dwindling supply of flu vaccines. Inc.. The French government is investigating more than fifty French Muslim organizations and bowing the shut them down there responding to a gruesome beheading of a schoolteacher on Friday Samuel. Patty had recently shown pictures of the Prophet Mohammed to his class during a discussion about freedom of speech depictions of the Prophet. Mohammed. Ken Seriously offend some Muslims and on Friday and eighteen year old russian-born Chechen stabbed and decapitated Mr Patty police shot and killed the attacker and France's interior minister has said apparently without any evidence that one French Muslim Ngo was quote obviously involved in Friday's attack the NGO He's speaking of is called the collective against Islamaphobia in France or. F-, Marin used to be the spokesperson for. We reached him in. Paris. Mr Mohamed a Francis Interior. Minister has called the organization you used to work for. An enemy of the states, what's your message to the Minister? My a message to the minister is that he should remember the used to be a supporter of our organization when he was coming to conferences and supporting our work in commending our work before he became a minister of interior and before France was on the verge of becoming the first. State to let the far-right govern. Trends. Right. What does he said? What does the government said is the reasons why they have they think that you're NGO is suspicious. Because we criticize Islamaphobia in. France in essence for them criticizing the current Islamophobia in the into county is a way of rejecting the the republic. So they think that's a raising awareness discrimination and hate crime constitutes an act of defiance. Some of the awareness that they say that you are raising with the collective against Islamophobia in France is that the the took your organization took part in a social media campaign against this teacher who has been. And that a father of one of his students had reached out to your NGO for help is that what happened? No it's not what happened. The CIS never incited are shared the video Ara transmitted video via mail WHATSAPP tweeter or any social network for that for that matter. But it is true that the person who shot the video tried after issues the video after he disseminated the video few days later tried to contact the helpline and a clerk at the help line. told him that before taking any testimony. It was advisable for him to take down the video because it could be counterproductive and even dangerous. So not only the wasn't involved in any way in this crime or in the incitement to targeting the teacher but they adopt the exact opposite position by calling for more reasonable resolution and by hoping that the person would take down the video. Did they did the CCF? Your organization? Did it comment? About the teacher showing pictures of the Prophet Mohammed. Tunes was at something that you organization did no they did not comment and they weren't involved until after there was horrible horrendous killing, and after that, of course, the public, the published a statement condemning, of course, violence and expressing support for the victim his family in the community of teachers. You heard about the brutal murder of this teacher Samuel Patsy what affected that have on you that news. Shocked because I'm so involved in the school of my children and I'm so involved with that. We did teach teachers when the when the need health, how did we get it? So wrong to antagonize people like that to the point where in eighteen year old kid from eighty kilometers way comes and kills an innocent man just for lack of discussion justice for lack of dialogue in our French society today, and on one side, we are exposed to terrorist attacks like it's been the case regularly in. France over the last few years and on the other side, we are exposed to racism and the government is now asking us to choose between the two. Can you expand on that? What do you mean about having to decide between the two? Basically what the government is saying is that if you are denouncing criticizing Islamaphobia, it means you condone terrorism and issue are a good. French Muslim citizen have to show your loyalty to the nation. You have to do this by criticizing and accepting the stigmatisation. Organization you have to choose between your faith and your citizenship in any other country. These two parts are complementary in identity but in France now we said that either you have to choose your loyalty to France or royalty tweet your religion as as you. These were to opposed concepts when something like this happened this horrendous murder wh, what's the response within your community with with among Muslims in France do they brace for the other side that won their horrified by what's happened, but then waiting for the backlash against them when this happens people are horrified, but there's some parts within us that he's hoping without saying the worst Oh my God. He's make sure he's not. Muslim. He's make sure the perpetrator is not Muslim and of course, as soon as we discovered that the person has claimed that he does this in the name of Islam we know that we're going to have like one week or two weeks of horrendous backlash the in the media, but we just have to turn the TV off and social networks off and let it pass and hope that our neighbors our friends. Our colleagues will remember that we are human beings and that we grew up together studied together, raise our kids together. The French police are raiding, the homes of dozens of Islamic radicals. They say, they they are probing. More than fifty Muslim associations including the one you used to work at what effect does that going to have on your community the minister has been explicit this morning in the in the newspaper Lack Hawk. And he said that these a rates had nothing to do with the case in an of itself, but they were used to send a message. So he for the first time acknowledged that basically these raids had no specific legal a motivation but they were used. To Hers Islamic Organization to stop criticizing the government and to send a message and this in and of itself, using the states infrastructure and the police to rehearse political opponents are people we did. We disagree with is the very definition of arbitrary measures and we can't confirm that is that the Interior Minister of France did say that the raids on houses in many cases had nothing to do with the murder of the teacher and they were done to send a message. Over there and I appreciate speaking with you tonight. Thank you pick you so much. Marwan Mohamed is former spokesperson for the collective against Islamaphobia in France. He's in Paris. This weekend New Zealand journalists, Tova. O'Brien tweeted Woah that's quite something to wake up to. It was after one of her interviews or as the Guardian called it a brutal takedown went viral. She was interviewing politician Jamie Lee Ross who was just voted out of parliament. He's a former National Party MP and his writing is called. Botany. Miss O'Brien's questioning of Mr. Lee has earned praise and in the US CNN's Jake Tapper tweeted that she has some fans in his country. Here's just a bit of that interview. After a decade in politics full national impede Jamie Ross is out of parliament. The advance indeed co-leader joins me now Jamie Lee, you just described yourself as a loser you. Out of national out of parliament out of botany, your political career is intent. Do you have any regrets? Look? We gave it a good guy this time round we put together a new patty in just a few months time we only gathered one vote it clearly wasn't enough but of enjoyed the opportunity to work with all the people that I have with Advanced Zealand, have another crack it out answering that because I just ask you if you have any recreates you've just been. Part of political movement which has been piddling misinformation during the election campaign. Do you have any regrets? Think we were asking some hard questions about the direction of Covid nineteen if you're asking me about regrets threat three Tim, of course, we could vote on things a lot differently in a the back in two thousand eighteen. But we he now we might have beat and we just melted focus on the street. Why? Why on earth? Did you get into bed with the League Tika? I could see that there was a lot of growth on social media, lot of growth in the number of people coming. Political ambition. Could see. The was people out there who were asking questions around things that I believe in two around freedom and sovereignty for New Zealand and the Plan D MEK no. I've never seen that. He has I've Neve- assume that covid nineteen. So we are asking questions about with the country was going in the right direction know exactly what you were doing your whipping up fear and hysteria among vulnerable communities, Dole. If you look at the mortality right of covid nineteen compared to other fluid. Here I don't. WanNa. Twenty. To on well, if you're GONNA come on, you're gonNA come on the show inside things which it is factually incorrect. I can't do that actually politics all you've known what are you going to do? What are you going to do after this I? Think it's time for a risk but look I've enjoyed the decay that have been in parliament. I think it's been one where I've been up SUV my community of botany of I've done that diligently and the last two years wasn't what? I expected when we hit election twenty seventeen but there's a hold of characters in the National Party to that I. Think we'll be looking back at this tube and thinking that could've been should have done things differently. You said you do have some regrets from the three parliamentary tomb perhaps more broadly in your political career I'm this might be the last time that you're on probably the last time that wheel and bite you wander any apologies that you want to ask you twenty one. I think we all and the National Patty. Bacon. Twenty eight thousand could have done things differently. And that was probably the start of the decline of the National Patty. Had we all done things differently would be in a different position, but it happened we move forward and we focus on the future. That was former new. Zealand politician Jamie Lee Roth speaking with news hub political editor editor Tova O'Brien just after he was voted out of parliament. You've been listening to the as it happens podcast. Our show can be heard Monday to Friday on CBC Radio One following the world at six. You can also listen to this show on the web at CBC Dot. CA. Slash Aih thanks for listening I'm Carol off and I'm Ali Hassan. For, more CBC PODCASTS GO TO CBC DOT CA slash podcasts.

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March 27: A lifeline, in the nick of time

As It Happens from CBC Radio

50:44 min | 1 year ago

March 27: A lifeline, in the nick of time

"Hi I'm Leah and I'm Falen you know us as the host of the podcast. The secret life of Canada. And we've got an exciting better news for you. We do. We want to go to school with you. That's right. We are now part of the curriculum in a way. We've teamed up with educators from across the country to create teaching guys that go along with some of our best episodes. We've got teaching guards for indigenous history. Caribbean Canadian Migration Black History Asian history. It's very exciting. But is very exciting. And so each guard comes with ad free audio transcripts lesson plan slide shows and a whole bunch of other stuff. Yeah just had to. Cbc DOT CA Slash Teaching Guides for more info. And it's free it's free this is a CBC PODCAST. Hello. I'm Carol off and I'm Ali Hassan. This is as it happens. The podcast edition tonight lifeline. In the nick of time the Federal Government announces a huge program to help businesses pay their workers during the pandemic event. Couvert restaurant owner tells us it'll help. Keep him afloat for now. It's going to get worse before it gets any better Brooklyn. Doctor says he and his colleagues are already facing war zone like conditions and the peak is still to come wait for IT I. She learned her double mastectomy had been cancelled then she discovered she's not the only one having vital surgery put off as hospitals prepare for a surge of covert nineteen cases researchers discover some very very old donkey bones the prove aristocrats us the humble animal to play. Polo in China but a thousand years ago. Now that's brainpower flattening the curve while dealing with a steep learning curve an employee at Oklahoma's shuttered cowboy museum discovers. He's a bit of a Greenhorn. When it comes to social media and sharing is caring but sharing your pants is just a whole other level. We reached into the archives. Pulled out two men one of whom was in need of pants as it happens. The Friday edition radio. That's always happy to cut you some slacks this morning in Ottawa. Prime Minister Justin Trudeau. Threw a lifeline to Canadian business owners. Last week we hit announced that we would cover ten percent of wages. But it's becoming clear that we need to do more much more. So we're bringing that percentage up to seventy five percent for qualifying businesses. This means that people will continue to be paid even though their employer has had to slow down or stop its operations because of covert nineteen. We're helping companies keep people on the payroll so that workers are supported and the economy is positioned to recover from this. That is our priority. That was Prime Minister Trudeau announcing a massive increase in help for small businesses affected by the covert nineteen pandemic. The Canadian restaurant industry has been one of the hardest hit so far. And it's one of the sectors that could be kept afloat by the new subsidy. Doug Stephen Co owns two restaurants a food truck and a catering company. We reached him in Vancouver. Dag what is your reaction to the prime minister's announcement. I think this is an incredible step forward for small and medium sized businesses who are currently trying to maintain the employment of all their staff The realities to me are that the more people that we can continue to have employed that can continue to make purchases from other businesses. This will hopefully help. Keep our economy afloat and keep all these small businesses afloat. I think it's incredible news. And when you heard it when you heard that the seventy five percent figure wha wha what did how did you feel about that? What was your reaction? I literally did a fist pump. While I in bed that that that instantly changed both my wife and myself a changed our The feeling that we've been having over the last two weeks. Now tell us a bit about your business. How many people you employ and what kind of work. They're doing Between all of our restaurants and food concepts we have almost fifty employees and a few have been able to continue operation. A few unfortunately have not just as a result of the concepts that they are but this will allow us to Help maintain employment and also help take care of those of our staff who have had to take time off because they are either immunosuppressed have respiratory challenges are high risk individuals in their household. That's who we were. The most concerned about was how they were going to continue to to live. And I think with this With this subsidy will be able to get a paycheck in their Hanson Be Able to take care of them. You had some of you. Workers were not not able to work or not wanting to work because of their health concerns and then in addition to that did to lay people off Suss far. We've actually been fortunate enough that we haven't only because of the nature of our business levels at one of our concepts. We were actually strongly looking at it up until today's announcement gives us what kinds of services you're still if you're still in business What are you actually doing? Where do you able what are you? What are you offering to the public at this point? Takeout PICKUP END. We have elected to delivery Using our own staff in an effort to maintain his high unemployment rate as possible. To how much of Your Business had were you losing? Or how'd you lost since the lockdown began right? Now we're down Company WIDE. Were probably down about forty forty five percents ranging anywhere from twenty percent in In one location to about fifty to sixty percents in the other does this does this announcement of the wage. Subsidy doesn't mean that you will not lay anybody off the Jewish. Keep your your full staff hundred percent and you have to contribute anything that seventy five percents of the what they're making that goes directly to them. Do you have to contribute anything to that? We will make sure that anybody who maintains employment with US gets four one hundred percent time of their hour of their full-time hours. And we'll also look at ways to Take care of those people who are A part of our full-time team who have had to take time off the unfortunate side of The employment insurance measures that had been announced. Is that that wasn't enough for some people to pay rent so this I'd much rather them get a paycheck from US and be able to pay their rent. Put ARE THEY SAYING. What kind of I is the word out among your employees that this is going to happen. They'RE GONNA THEY'RE GONNA be paid. We literally we found out and then came down to the store to do our morning briefing with our staff every day. We do a briefing normally today Of well today every day since the pandemic has really started affecting us. We've been doing longer briefings talking to the staff about every Economic OPTION. That's being put forward as well as The nature of where the world's at N- asking them checking how they're doing So we we got out of bed and we immediately While got ready to go and then came down here. to the restaurant and For most of our staff it was their first time hearing it. There were cheers during our briefing this morning. As a result of this how close would they do not being able to pay the rent at this point to lay them off our crew that we were working with they were there they were going to probably be fine but they understood the realities of not just our own business but the entire Canadian economy eventually having an effect on all businesses everywhere and Some of the things that we talk about in so for them they also understood that this measure. It's not just for our benefits. Not just for the people who we currently work beside. This is an opportunity for other small medium sized businesses that have maybe already close their doors to reopen and to Try to find a way to make a work and try to find a way to keep their employees fully employed. They're part of the statement that the prime minister gave was that the the point of this is to keep people employed obviously but but also to be have businesses like yours in the position for the recovery when the economy surges to life. Again as they were saying I'm as I was in our city Toronto and as I'm sure it is in Vancouver start looking at these businesses and wondering how much of the landscape is going to change. How many of these these. These businesses aren't going to be there when when When the dust settles our when we recover from this was that you're concerned where you're starting to think I just wonder what kind of a kind of a city we're gonNA live if we don't able to hold onto these these little these enterprises we myself Am I am my business partner? Wife sat down with a couple of other friends. This was all starting to kind of shakedown socially distanced of course and we had a very honest conversation amongst all of ourselves in the realities are for most businesses. Regardless of how busy they are they usually only have a couple of months especially small to medium. Sized businesses usually have a couple of months of bare necessity Cashflow ready to go in the reserves. this I still think this is going to change the landscape a lot of places but I think this will at least give a lot more businesses the opportunity to make it through this Alive to also be able to continue business down the road well Doug. I'm glad things worked out at least for the time being with your restaurant and hopefully it's doesn't last long. Thanks so much for speaking with US Carol. Thank you so much for calling me. I really appreciate it. Bye Bye Bye Doug. Stephen is a restaurant owner. We reached him in Vancouver Sydney Loni has been waiting for cancer surgery for weeks and now because of the demands on Canadian Hospitals Dudakovic Nineteen. Her Double Mastectomy has been put off indefinitely. The writer and editor has since discovered that. She's just one of many people who aren't getting urgent procedures. All of them now faced an agonizing. Wait to find out when they might get the medical help that they need. Sydney loney wrote about her experience. In a piece published in Maclean's magazine we reached her in Oakville Ontario. Send he just. How pressing is it for you to get this surgery From my understanding cancers fairly serious so I feel it's you know rather pressing and what was your understanding as to when it will be happening. There doesn't seem that's very good question. I I have no idea at this point when it will be happening. What's your doctor telling you? My doctor is Doing the best you can and and I think has been sort of left to triage patients on her own from my from what I could understand. And she is hoping that by putting me on talks in it will just sort of hold that the cancer check for now until such time as we're able to you find a surgery date until or Operating at full capacity again. What did your doctor say when she told you that the surgery was not going to go ahead. And when you're having when your book for something like this you your whole life is focused on. That isn't it. That's the moment and your family's moment when the it's the beginning of the end of something that That that has been a nightmare. So how did she tell you? That wasn't gonNA happen. Yeah that's exactly I read sort of you know I had in my mind and and reassured family that this was going to be taken care of and by the end of March there would be nothing to worry about and She she was very matter of fact about it. She you know making the best of the terrible situation and I understood that and I also know that I'm not only one so I was just trying to remain stoic as I could It happened so quickly to she. Just you know waited for several hours that she came. She came in downs. And we can't do this. Here's what we're going to do and we just sort of did that was very very businesslike. Like okay this is what's going to happen and we're going to hope for the best. Was your reaction when you heard that I felt ill but You know I yeah I just felt ill then you had to go home and tell your family yes. That was the worst part. I think you know I it's one thing For me it's just. It's another for my for my kids and You know we really haven't talked about it in I. I try not to make it a thing in our have have tried not to make the thing in our lives. It's just something that you know. A minor inconvenience will devastate back. We'll get over it but now it's I don't know what to tell them and I don't know how to reassure them and telling telling you. My family was the worst part. How old your kids and in thirteen so old enough that they knew mum was going to go for the surgery and she was going to get better. That's right. Yeah and how how what reaction would affect it had on them knowing this? Yeah they they sort of looked at me to see how I'm reacting and I I just try to have been not emotional about it in front of them but there are times especially when I see them upset during the day. We're busy at night and everyone is struggling in this very strange time. So there's extra stress anyway and I think by nighttime. Everyone is a little more upset. And that's when it's it turns into you know they're they're they're upset and sadden. We're just trying to get through it so we're so far talking to you as a cancer patient and now it's up to you as journalists because you put that other hat on didn't do at some point to find out to dig a bit deeper into who else is being affected. And what did you find out? I did the day after my my terrible appointment. I thought I you know I I should really talk to somebody about this and people should know about this because I I had no idea it was still in my understanding that only elective procedures were being cancelled and then I thought well wait a minute. I'm a journalist. I could do this and I made a few calls. I spoke to a couple of doctors and I learned that That this is a widespread. Pedantic planning thing that's happening in hospitals and hospitals are shutting down their activity and as of last Friday. That was it was shut down at least in Toronto. Up to seventy percents with the goal being to get it much higher than that and really just very minimal procedures are being done and there doesn't seem to be. I would like to see more of a plan in place or hear more of a planet in terms of what? What exactly is going to happen to this backlog of critically ill people. I'm I'm not the only one with cancer. It's not just cancer. It's people waiting for organs and people who have heart disease. I mean it just. I can't even imagine how many people this affects but in your research You asking around what seems to be. The case at this point is that the hospitals are anticipating this or preparing for. But they don't really have that rush of patients yet that they're anticipating so what do you think? How could they have done things differently? As far as what you've been able to learn yes and that was something that frustrated frustrated me before I even The end speaking to a few doctors. I just thought well. Why not get through because backlog is going to be Immense and when I posed that question to one of the physicians I spoke to He. He agreed he said you know it was common sense to him to have treated as many people as possible and move them through and got them in and out Rather than wait and wait for how long have we don't we don't know and even now you know. The the focus of efforts is still on on testing and there aren't that many people In the hospital system yet so it made sense for to me into him most people through and then again as he sat. You know hindsight's whether or not that was the right decision but I I. It's not a decision that I understand. You were diagnosed in January. Yes I was Sort of late December early January. And do you have any idea can you? Can you can find out how much your cancer may have progressed since your diagnosis. No because they haven't the day that I went for the The appointment I my doctor sent me to to go and having ultrasound just so that we could see so it could. It could help her decide whether or not she'd made the right decision I think and see. How far has cancer progress in my last? My last biopsy In early January my ultrasound in January and the diagnostic imaging is also Shut down so I was told you know they're not even booking appointment and she justice sent me back with a forum and said you know try back in. May and maybe we'll be booking in May and that was that was it. That was the best they could do. Sydney I'm sorry you're going through this thank you. I appreciate that and I hope that it all. That's it. You're able to get what you need as soon as possible that we get through this as quickly as possible for me and for everybody else thinks. He's waiting Sydney. Thank you thank you very much. Sydney Loni is a writer and editor. She was in Oakville Ontario. You can find more on this story on our web page at CBC DOT CA Slash H in life under lockdown enforcement is inevitably part of the equation and in Europe's hardest hit countries Italy and Spain. That means police are patrolling the streets but in my Orca. The sound of sirens is a welcome intrusion partly because of the sound that comes next radio. Aw coupling the Lebron Concord Ma Value Tampa police in my Orca Spain with their rendition of the children's tune in John Petite Columbia. They're playing for residents. Who are singing along from their balconies. yeah hope so for a while. Now we've been spending more time in the as it happens. Archives sure the archives are housed in the sub sub sub basement of the building and there's a disturbingly large population of feral cats down there. What is not too dangerous as long as you? Take some kibble with you plus. We're feeling some relief from re airing some of the odd and amusing stories that we've erred in the past and so are you. Apparently here's a call. We received high as it happens. This is Valerie. Miron calling from Victoria and wanted to say thank you I. I have so many favorite shows on. Cbc and I wanted to say thank you to you in particular. I don't have email and not online and I don't have television. I don't have a cell phone so Cdc is kind of my lifeline. And particularly I want to say thank you to as it happens for being really conscious to include humor and lighthearted stories and uplifting stories in your program these days it's just so needed particularly the The woman that you had on just recently from a couple of years back that you interviewed who won the last thing the laughter the laughing championship the US. She's great That was wonderful and I am daily practicing laughter and Upgrading my laughing skills. And it's not that hard to it's not that hard to invent so anyway bless your heart. I'm just so very grateful I WanNa wish you take very good care. Keep well and Keep me connected. Thank you everybody by keep practicing that laugh Valerie and thank you for calling and thank you to everyone who's contacted us with a request or suggestion. Keep them coming email us at Aih at CBC DOT CA tweet us at CBC as it happens or leave a message for talkback at four one. Six two zero five five six eight seven now without further ado we whisk you back to twenty nine thousand nine hundred a time when we freely mingled together a time when we shook hands Willy Nilly a time when we could just ask a stranger to borrow their pants and that stranger would happily oblige okay. That was never a common thing but it did happen last April when Jake Wolf a student at the University of Illinois arrived at chemists chemistry class in shorts that wasn't just a fashion Faux Pas. It was not allowed and it would cost to mark's so he needed somebody help and somebody's pants from our archives. Here's Carol's conversation with Mr Wolf. Jake take us back to last Tuesday. Just how nice was it? That day. It was so nice it was like Seventies. It was just. It was great weather for short. And so you had to break out in shorts. When did you realize you've made a serious mistake at seven fifty eight two minutes before my class? That's when I realized what would be the consequences of going to that class with shorts I would be thrown out a Latte which basically guarantees a drop in the letter grade. And why? Can't you wear shorts in chemistry? It's more of a liability like if you spill like a hazardous chemical on your leg could be dangerous. So so that's why you can't go in with it. I get it. Yeah that makes sense to me so the class begins at eight. You are two minutes in and you wearing the wrong clothes. You'RE GONNA lose a whole grade. Could you go home? No I cannot go home in my panic state. I thought maybe I can make it home. Change and get back but the latest you can. Swipe into class is eight ten so you can be ten minutes late and still make the lab. But there was no way. I could run home in time. I thought I could. That's why I started running but it would be actually impossible okay. So when did you get an idea how you might turn this around So I was about halfway home and I looked at my watch and it was eight. O four so six minutes is already passed. I'd six minutes left only halfway home so I thought I have to resort to something else thousand last resort mode desperation mode And that's when I saw Sam walking into I think it was the business school In pants and it was just. I haven't tried something insane today. Let's give it a go. So that's that's what I went up and asked him Like a bar with pants and we have Sam Brown on the phone. Hi Sam Hi. How are you okay now? Did you know Jake? Had you ever seen him before? No I had not until he approached me. I'd never met her seen them around campus. And how did he approach you so I was walking in the building and I heard someone behind me on? Hey Hey hey so I turn around look and I saw some guy running towards the door. He kind of said like this is going to sound crazy. But I'm running late to my lab. I'M GONNA need to borrow your pants and I was pretty shocked. Nobody's ever come up to me and asked if they could use my pants especially stranger. Did you wonder about this dude did you? Did you buy the story? I mean I understand the story but it was kind of in a short amount of time. I didn't really have time to think whether like this was a good idea or not. So that's kind of when I decided. What kind of pants were you wearing? I was wearing a black sweatpants. Okay back to you jake. So so so. What did you guys do? So we both ran into the business school. I of course didn't know where the bathrooms are so I was like. Where's the bathroom? He's like Oh it's over to your left And we both rushed in and we switch pants and I quickly got his number. 'cause I wanted to give his pants back And I didn't even have enough time to like ask for the name. I just saved it in my phone pants. I ran the lab. That's what happened so they fit your well their sweat pants so they're elastic waist right so they've fit beautifully and Sam. How about the shorts? Did they fit you perfectly fine as well so wearing each other's clothes and what what did you think what did you think? Did you think you'd ever see your pants again He told me he was. GonNa text me so I I believe Hughes. He seemed pretty panic though. But I was like all right so I just walked upstairs. The class thought this was probably when the crazier things I've done so okay. So and when did you connect again with Jake? Saw was round eleven when I walked back downstairs and I text him and he was standing by the bats are Megan is said he was so thankful and that was a lifesaver for our that. We just went back to the bathroom and swap pants and take. How grateful were you? I was so grateful Absolutely ecstatic I actually put twenty bucks in his pants because Sam was such a nice kid for doing that. I knew if I handed him. Twenty Bucks you would definitely say no no keep it. Actually Slipped in and his sweatpants and I talked to them later in. Sweatpants though and now would you have done the same thing if somebody Jacob. Somebody had asked you your pants a stranger. It depends the vibe that the person would give me but I feel like if somebody came up to me and asked me like dude. I need your pants like I would definitely think no before I thought yes so and when you told people about this. How did they respond Well I texted my one friend and he thought absolutely hilarious and then I immediately called my mom and she was crying laughing. And then that's when my friend thought it was so funny that he tweeted out and the whole thing went. Viral blew up. And so you two are doing doing interviews. You kind of joined at the HIP now. Aren't you in so many ways Jake and Sam? It's a great story and I really appreciate you telling it to us. Thank you both. Thank you forever. Thank you from our archives. Carol speaking with Jake Wolf and the heroic pence providers Sam Brown on April nineteenth two thousand Nineteen Haley Halen. And Hey listeners are we are. The hosts of a podcast called the secret life of Canada. We are a history podcast. Yeah and we've covered topics things like the gold rush or the bay blanket. Yes kind of unconventional stories. Though that you might have missed in your Canadian history class so we're here to uncover those secrets. That's right Czechoslo. Wherever you get your podcasts doctors and nurses in New York City are already at a breaking point and the peak of the covy nineteen crisis. Hasn't even hit yet this week. A hospital in Queens reported thirteen deaths in a single day. Some nurses in Brooklyn were trash bags. After running out of medical gowns. Another hospital started splitting oxygen from a single ventilator so that to patients could use it Dr Tons Zebo Sane works at New York University. Langone hospital in Brooklyn. We reached him in the middle of his busy shift. Dr Hussain we have been following. What's happening at your hospital? And just first of all I wanted to. Just thank you and all your colleagues for what you're doing now you're on the. This is what we signed up for and these are the moments that make Dr into doctor. I'm sure this is not what anybody anticipated. Could happen in their careers. But just what are you seeing? Just your shift so far today. What's it been like in general what we've been seeing in most of our shifts are subtle patients a day coming in for restaurant symptoms all very similar symptoms shortness of breath fever cough days to the point where by the time they arrived at the hospital there having significant shortness of breath and their oxygen levels are very low. What's been different? The last two weeks is really just the volume of these cases of these patients. Coming in. I think we're used to getting Sahgal. Patients in our but with different acuity is with different symptoms different disease processes think having so many people with the same processes coming in flooding. The emergency rooms. That's what's really difficult is managing the acuity and the volume in a short amount of time and as far as dealing with the patients themselves. And what they're going through. What does the fear? I guess what they've got and what what it might end with. What how difficult is it for you to to actually deal with that level of it? Yeah and I. It is very challenging for physicians of all the hospital staff. Everyone who is involved in the hospital and it feels. The gravity of the situation understands the seriousness. We try to support each other through it. We try to get some support from the patients themselves and then honestly for me the biggest releases going home in my wife she is also scientists. She is here and she's actually in the thick of things working with the mayor's office on the Mayor's covered council trying to figure out how the policy makers can improve delivery of equipment delivery of resources to us and so when I go home and talk to her and discuss these things with her that they get a bigger picture and together the support we have between each other. I think really helps once outside the hospital so I think for a lot of physicians. It's disappoint structure within and without within outside the hospital. That keeps US going because without that. This is a challenging time for us. All when you have a patient when you have someone who's come in and you have to into bait them you have to do put put them on on vital air and on ventilators and they can't have anybody else with your. They're isolated. Wha what's what's that like for you what. What relationship are you having with them at that point? How are you helping them? Through that one of our jobs that relations and caretakers including the nurses respiratory therapists. The whole staff. That's there with the patient went into is about to happen. I think our job is really if the patient is coherent enough to be able to understand what is going on is to be able to be there for them. Be a support and try to give them hope a lot of patients. They're so sick that they might not be conscious enough and so would emergent innovations and in those cases. There's less of a emotional toll but the ones who are still alert at the in those situations it is very talked to the the ones at the bedside to let the patient know. Hey we don't have any guarantee that you might be able to come out of this but we need your consent to do this because from what we've seen this is what's going to help. And how often are you contemplating the fact that a patient is not gonNA come out of every day it would be patient? That's a concern because this disease is so serious And it is. It weighs on every one of us when we're doing this each with each patient because we don't know which ones will make it through in which means all these patients possibly their final moments and they don't have family with them. How difficult is that for them? Do you think no I think that is probably one of the most difficult aspects of this is because of the isolation necessary Safety these patients are on their own. Usually in a hospital setting you will always have family members of some big refunds coming by there with the patient before something as big as integration occurs but now in these settings now these patients are just with us and I was mentioning earlier. How some of the support I get by going home and being with someone who can understand this and and support each other to imagine not having that in the most critical of times in the hospital is just unfathomable. You desperately need ventilators. That's been made clear by your the state government in by your city Yesterday president trump scoffed at the request governor made for thirty thousand ventilators if you could show him something if you could bring him into your hospital and show him what you're dealing with. What what would you what would you do? Would you tell him? What would you demonstrate to him about what you're up against? I think just walking into one of the units into seeing the gravity of the situation in those units to see how many patients there are of all ages doesn't matter for young or old being able to see the illness process and the fact it hasn't individuals that's when he realized this is. This is seriously. It's not just numbers. It's not just projections. It's actual really. It's real people who are being affected in. You're seeing very young people aren't you? Yes so this idea that. Somehow this isn't something it only takes older people and that will some politicians of said. Well maybe that's we'll have to accept that for the sake of rebuilding the economy and opening it up by Easter. What do you say to them? Honestly what's the rate of admissions? Were Seeing I. I can't see that being a smart solution at this point. It's still peeking. In my opinion and so two data mine is still too early. So you feel that this is when when there's a sense that there is it still going up. When do you think you might hit the sort of peak now? So it's been about a little over two weeks now hoping within the next two weeks. Maybe we'll we'll finally start seeing the tip decrease until maybe another six to eight weeks Where I feel. We've been bad position where we can start thinking about other things. But I think it's going to be a couple of weeks at least factor Hussein. I wish you and your colleagues strength and again thank you for what you're doing you take care you too. Tounzi Hussein is a doctor at New York University Langone Hospital in Brooklyn and that's where we reached him today to Kia has lived most of his life alone on a tiny island near Victoria. Bc Wolf literally alone one but despite his remoteness he was loved by people all over the world. Most people are in shock today. Because this week Takeo was shot and killed by hunters on Vancouver Island. Wolf gained international attention after a documentary by Cheryl Alexander which showed his life on discovery island before he swam to Vancouver Island. Miss Alexander has been following Takeda's life for nearly seven years and she spoke with. Cbc Victoria about what the Animal's death means to her. Oh well I think two K. Is GOING TO LEAVE. A huge legacy. He had through the sharing of his story I get hundreds of emails and notes a day from people all around the world in places as remote as you know. Slovenia and Poland and France and Germany and Italy and all the European countries and and South Africa and I mean it's phenomenal the cord that he has touched with people. And you know what's happened right now and this is. I was so horrendous for me to have to put this Out On my instagram about Takeda's being killed because he actually in this time we're facing which in which people around the world are finding themselves isolated and afraid and needing to figure out how to survive and he actually was providing people with hope and with You know a perspective that he he was probably the biggest isolationist in the world he'd spent most of his life and isolation and that gave people a sense of hope that he was you know able to figure it out that he survived and if he could then so can we figure it out and I. It's just so sad that I had to tell people at this time when they need. Hope that this terrible thing had happened. Sheryl Alexander who produced a documentary about Takeda the Lone Wolf that once lived on discovery island on Tuesday hunters shot and killed two KIA The Polo player takes the Field Mallet. In hand the players powerful steed trots into place its sleek flanks gleaming in the sunlight its main gently rippling in the breeze then it slowly opens its mouth and braise like a squeaky swing set. What I'm getting at is the steed was a donkey and his rider was a Chinese noblewoman. The discovery of a set of rare donkey bones has provided physical proof that the animals were used to play Polo in China. More than a thousand years ago. Few Marshall is one of the researchers. She's an anthropologist at Washington University in Saint Louis we reached her in Saint Louis Missouri Vessel Marshall. First of all our donkey's really fast enough to play Polo. Well that's a good question In fact they are don't keep domesticated from their ancestor. Equa Africanus Which is a very fast animal known as dip Akali or African wild ass. They are beautiful. They're they look more like Arabian Horses. With stripy legs and long ears. Then in fact wild horses did and they could move fast and so it varies with the kind of. Don't care around the world. The miniatures would not be as fast. But don't you can move quickly. Well we're we're actually quite interested in your African wild ass suggestion. That sounds like quite now. We're not going there But just you but did they cooperate enough to play Polo. The donkeys Well I haven't personally played donkey. The the game of lived. You is written in the historic nature in China that lots of people played it. And in fact if you look on the Internet you will find communities playing Polo on donkeys today to attract crist in the foothills of the Himalayas. And it looks as if they're moving pretty fun so there is written evidence that donkey used to play. Polo and Imperial China. So what does it? What's the significance of what you've discovered now so there's two ways in which it was. An extraordinary finding one is that not donkeys have been documented physically in ancient societies east of Iran. So these are the I don't. He's known They should be there. According to some of the ancient literature and certainly would have been important on the silkroute but the bones have not been found So just finding donkeys at all Is Very exciting. And then in terms of the Polo. The same thing is true. The literature suggests that was Polo. That's also true. Horse Polo Horse Polo is depicted on murals and some of the Emperor's tombs but there was no material evidence of any kind of people playing polo on donkeys no paintings and no no sculptures and no bones so finding these bones of donkeys in the in the tomb of this woman. I guess it's it's important to know who she might have been. Yes exactly and that was not known When they excavated this tune in order to save it they they would not have known whose tomb it was The architecture made it evident. It was a Tang dynasty elite tomb. So somebody important was buried there but who whether man or woman was not known until they finish the research so she was Queen? She the inscriptions on the tomb were very specific. We know she was the lady Clichy we know. She was in her fifties. We know the date of her burial And so that was the revelation that a noble woman would ever be buried with three. Don't keep would be totally unexpected. Like what does it tell you though that about the Dong he's himself? How do you know that they were Polo donkeys that she had buried with her? So all the different lines of evidence put together Don't make sense in any other way and that's the donkey was used for Polo. So the the history is really important. There the history of the Times the history of the family and the bones themselves all three of those things pointing the direction of Polo So the Tang Emperor of the time Was really passionate about Polo. And in fact he even advanced a quincy's husband who who became I two general and then the governor of two really important Tang provinces. It said in the history that he he was advanced because he was so good at Polo. And the emperor really cared about Polo. In fact the emperor even said he's famous saying if polo was imperial examination. I would have excelled Polo was played by the court at the time and it was originally played as by generals as a way to Prepare for war against the nomads. The showing new but the but you mentioned that the murals we have the depictions we have a horses with the Polo with donkeys. Was this a more kind of I guess? Acceptable female version of Polo? Is that why she would be using having playing Don Temple We don't know exactly why the texts Only mentioned slightly. They don't give an account of a donkey polo game. They say that donkey Polo live. Ju Is well-known and women played it Older people played it And also people without horses and so. It's inferred that it was safe for. The donkeys are lower to the ground and went a little more slowly but most importantly don't he's don't start way Horses do That's because they wild ancestors are not hurt animals so they will not just follow a leader. Who's galloping away They they make their own decisions. They're much more steady in Queens. She had these Donkeys buried with her because she intended to play Polo in the afterlife. I guess yes well. It sounds a little while but it's the only explanation that makes sense In fact there was a government regulatory body specifically in charge of animals for the Tang imperial state and they specify that capital could not be slaughtered neither could horses and nor could donkeys and the reason for the hoses and the donkeys was. They was so important for a state transport. They could only be killed for very important sacrifices ceremony and no donkey. Cermony hit ever beaten recruited but horses and cattle had so the only reason that they would The donkeys would be present in the tomb was because They were killed in a ceremony at the time she was buried and the only contact her woman a noble woman would have with donkeys would be through donkey polo quite the story and we needed that professor marsh something to take our minds off everything else. Thank you so much for speaking with us. Take by Fiona. Marshall is an anthropologist at Washington University in St. Louis. She was in Saint Louis Missouri You've got little campfire story for you. It's about a cow poke. Who's out there exploring the wild frontier fellow by the name of Tim? Tim Send is the head of security at the National Cowboy Museum in Oklahoma City. In normal times he keeps city slickers from put an greasy hands on the historic wagon wheels and whatnot but when Kovic nineteen road into town. The museum shutdown. Leaving Tim to run what they call the social media now in first tim was kind of a greenhorn. For example near the start of his stint he tweeted twitter tips. Please then he tweeted. Sorry thought that thought that I was googling that thanks Tim. He signs off every tweet. Thanks Tim early on. He also tweeted a photo of John. Wayne's hat from the movie true Grit and he wrote Hashtag John Wayne as three separate words. No pound sign in a follow up he wrote. Thanks for all the tips friends realize I have been doing the hashtags wrong. I need to use that pound sign from the phone. I'm learning then. He added Hashtag Hashtag John Wayne as in the Hashtag. Sign the word Hashtag and John Wayne no over the last ten days old. Tim's become reluctant international hero posting Dad Jokes and pictures from around the National Cowboy Museum usually featuring the Hashtag Hashtag the cowboy. That is the Hashtag sign the word Hashtag and the cowboy and always adding. Thanks Tim. Well Tim we're much obliged that you saddled up and if it's all the same to you we're going to sign off with your catchphrase. Thanks Tim. You've been listening to the as it happens. Podcast our show can be heard Monday to Friday on. Cbc Radio One and on Sirius Xm following the world at six. You can also listen to the whole show on the CBC listen APP. Download it for free from the APP store or from Google play. Thanks for listening. I'm Carol off. I'm Ali Hassan for more. Cbc PODCASTS GO TO CBC DOT CA slash podcasts.

Jake Wolf Cbc Tim Send Polo Vancouver Queens Carol Sam Brown writer and editor Doug Stephen Co Canada Ali Hassan US prime minister China Toronto CBC Brooklyn Oakville
616: I Am Not a Pirate

This American Life

1:08:23 hr | 2 years ago

616: I Am Not a Pirate

"Support for this. American. Life comes from squarespace, make your website your own with the ability to customize, look and feel settings products and more for a free trial of your new website. Visit squarespace dot com slash American and enter American squarespace think it dream it. Make it. When I was a kid. I was one hundred percent about astronauts, spaceships Saifi, and I was zero present pirates. The fact that pirates were bad asses that they didn't obey rules that they were rebels that did not speak to the little nerd boy that I was one of our producers on a Baker. She was into priorites GI tau scary. They were she told me this amazing story that has been her favourite since she first heard it true story about a man named Steed bonnet who is known as the gentleman pirate. Am basically it takes place in the early seventeen hundreds. I he was from Barbados. So he grew up on a plantation sugar plantation to one of the wealthiest families in Barbados he had ninety four slaves. He was married have three kids, and he traveled in high society, which is unusual for a pirate vast majority of people who turn the piracy did. So out of desperation in this man didn't twos. This. So I've told this story so many times too. So. Many people that I just wanted to make sure I was getting the facts, right? So I decided to talk to a pirate historian. That's Mark Hanna. He's also a professor at UC San Diego. The vast majority of buyers start their lives by mutinying or they gather a crew together, and they steal ship from someone. He actually had a ship built thought I will go down to local shipyard. I'll have my ship built according the specifications that I think are best. And then he hired a crew, and he paid them wages like regular normal people wages, which was like a big. No, no, no. The vast majority of parts that you don't capture ship. You don't make any money you want your crew to be invested in the outcome of attacking ship. So if you know, hey, I'm doing, okay. I know I'll be paid this week. You're going to be a little less aggressive about capturing a ship. And so I think on it right off the bat didn't understand the economic model that is the basis of most pirate attacks. And why did he why did he want to be a pirate? Like what kind of? Midlife crisis is just like, I'm a wealthy landowner with a wife and three kids and I'm gonna go marauding on the seven seas. Well, I it's explained in a book from seventeen twenty four this way. Captain Charles Johnson wrote, quote, this humor of going a pirating proceeded from disorder in his mind, which is said to have been occasioned by some discomfort C found in a married state. Wait. What what what is? He say. He says and other books say the same thing that I what led him to piracy was that he had a nagging wife. No way, they're blaming the wife, they blame the nagging wife so bonnet has this ship built. And he calls it the revenge, and he makes sure that it has a cabin with a well stocked library, which doesn't seem that weird. If you're going to be on a boat for months at a time that you have a lot of books. Most pirates are illiterate IRA after he had absolutely no idea what he was getting into. I think he might have heard stories in the local taverns about the excitement of life at sea. Perhaps he had heard stories that you can go to other islands, and maybe meet other women. But clearly he had no idea what he was getting into. And it seems like the reality set in very soon after he started off on his voyage. And this is what I love about. This story is that instead of just dreaming of this alternate life where he's a bad guy. He goes for it. And. He's the worst pirate. Like, he does everything wrong. Like, for instance, the captain of the pirate ship is supposed to be the most experienced sailor, and bonnet has no experience sailing. So it looks like when he was about to attack ship. He would have to look around and ask advice, which is not something you want to be seen doing as a captain. You wanna be seen as decisive fast aggressive, but they have a few successes. You know, they take a few ships heaving gets a reputation. This is when they start calling him the gentleman pirate. Does he kill people? No. Actually, he's kind of a nice pirate. He captures people. He takes their goods. And then he lets them go good. But then he tacks a big ship. A Spanish man of war and over thirty of his men are killed or wounded. And it's a huge disaster. Bonnet is gravely injured, and they have to escape and flee to the Bahamas and there he met one most iconic pirates in world history. Edward teach is better known. As blackbeard. Yeah. This is where the story takes a remarkable turn. So basically, here's this guy who has idolized pirates, and who does he happen upon, but basically the most famous pirate in the world who is in fact, bonnets polar opposite. He's a successful sailor. He's aggressive he's decisive. He's cruel. He sadistic. But he's also charisma attic and bold as opposed to bonnet who's indecisive nervous and Blackbeard was this consummate performer was incredibly violent. He was unpredictable. There's a reason he's one of the most famous pirates even pirates were like, whoa. This guy is out of control, and he would first appear on your ship. He would have prepared for that moment by tying these pieces of twine called slow matches into his long big beard, and he would light them on fire just as he appeared. So that there was this cloud of smoke and in the smoke. You would just see the eyes of Blackbeard. So he looked like he was appearing out of hell. I don't understand that at all. I could just seems like the fire would catch fire to his beard. He had a method. I'm sure. And this was actually a strategy. Their whole thing was to inspire as much terror as possible because if they may do incredibly afraid you would give up the ship without a fight. Oh, this never occurred to me the second. So the skull and crossbones and all that it's all like a brand to make people scared. Yeah. Their brand was death. They arrive with a school in crossbows. If you think death is coming for you, you're going to surrender. But in fact, some pirates Blackbeard they didn't even kill many people. In fact, there's no evidence Blackbird ever killed anyone till the very end. So it was very theatrical. They're putting on a show, and they understood that and I like imagining these pirates rid of scheming and plotting it out being no ever really gonna this is so scary. Basically, the most skilled pirate needs the least skilled and Blackbeard treats bonnet in a very friendly manner. Which is uncharacteristically of Blackbeard bonnet is gravely injured Blackbeard comes on board and says all captain your ship as help to you. Yes. Extremely rich, man. Yes. So what he's doing? Exactly. All right. He let's bonnet sort of hang out in and he'll in the captain's quarters. Well, he captains the ship. So do we know what Blackbeard gets out of this? We don't know. But bonnets novelty Blackbeard wouldn't have gotten a chance to ever hang out with an aristocrat the end up being together for almost a year. Wow. And at some point black bear gives bonnet his ship back. And when bonnet final goes out on his own again, he fails at pirating so badly his crew begs Blackbeard, they're like, we cannot work. For this guy. He is a terrible pirate. Please take over this shit and so black beard intervenes. And he puts his second in command in charge of bonnet ship, and he invites bonnet over just to stay on his ship for a while. Then he tells him, you know, you're just not cut out for this lifestyle. Just just sail with me. So again, it's sort of this ruse of like hang out with me, put your feet up, relax. This was a transformative moment for Monnet. I think this was a moment when he realized he made a huge mistake. In fact, Kevin Charles Johnson recalled that he at this moment saw has folly and quote, he reflected upon his, past course of life and was confounded with shame. When he thought upon what he had done. So he clearly fell into a deep deep depression because he was like, oh, I had a midlife crisis. And I left my wife and three kids and now I'm pirate. And I'm at it. Yes. That's exactly right. In fact, he he tells the rest of the pirates he actually really regrets actually becoming a pirate in the rest of the pirates are sort of embarrassed to look at him. Yeah. And in fact, one of the historical account said that when he ventured out on deck. He Warren elegant morning gown. And usually carried the book he was reading in his hands. And then he would sort of silk with despair. So he has all this regret about being a pirate. And then something incredible happens, which is that the king issues this decree that there is a pardon available for pirates, and you can return to your life without any criminal charges. So when they get to port he takes the pardon and bonnets plan is to become a privateer with a it's like a mercenary navy that works for the king. Okay. But when he gets back to ship Blackbeard has betrayed him. That is so not a surprise at all. He's plundered his ship. And he's taken his men and Marin them on a deserted island, any leaves them for dead. It saves them. He is really furious Blackbeard in fact, decides he wants to go after and capture Blackbeard himself, which is as you can imagine an astounding misperception of his own skill sets. Here's this guy who had minor success. His crew never respected him goes. After probably the most successful pirates world history who is much more aggressive and things that somehow he's going to enact revenge, and he's finally living up to the name of his ship for the first on his back in the game. Yeah, he never actually catches Blackbeard the Walli chasing him. He finally becomes a real pirate. He takes thirteen ships. He got violent. He logged his men. He threatened to burn down a whole town and to shoot his own crew, if they surrendered and in the final battle where he was captured he and his men kill eighteen people. So you could say that he had some I guess personal growth. Learn specific lessons learned that. If you're going to do this you have to put on the show, and you've got to actually a. Appear to be someone who is it is worth sprinted. Yes. Abundant eventually has matured into a murderous part. Wait. So he had a romantic idea of what it was like to be somebody who like murders people and takes their stuff. And then he actually ends up like actually murdering people and taking their stuff. Yep. That's horrible. Yeah. He becomes a bad guy and the catch him and they put him on trial. We go to switch the world finally thought he was a pirate like mission accomplished. Yeah. Now, it could be hanged at thirty. And there's actually a transcript of his trial. So do the admitting pirate was he proud? No. He pled not guilty. He said his crew held him on board against his will. And that he wasn't doing any of the piracy. And apparently, this kind of defense is typical Marquette told me pirates usually deny that they're parrots or they rationalize it. Like, there's some good reason that they did this, you know, they were poor sailors or they were badly treated, and it was only fair to start sealing from these big trading companies ships. So to defense work. Did you get off? Now, he went to the gallows in Charleston, South Carolina. There's actually a marker in a park there. I goes and hangs out with parents. And even though he does not seem to have the smallest aptitude for pirating. He's becoming a pirate today in our program. We hear the story of another guy a guy who's alive right now guy today who gets near two pirates. Did it change them? We try to figure that out WBZ Chicago. It's this American life from our glass. Are you going to stay with us? No, we're not using. Glenn highway change denier, he may remember hearing about Rachel and Paul Chandler a few years back there. British couple who've spending their retirement sailing around the world, but I told her two thousand nine in the middle of the night abandoned, Somali pirates boarded the boat with guns kidnapped them for ransom. They were held for months and the smelly Bush with threatened and fed a steady diet of goat liver back in England. Rachel's brother, a guy named Steven Collett was negotiating with pirates. He's been eight months trying to work out a deal mostly with pirate called how Lee if I came to an agreement four hundred forty thousand dollars for each one pulse. Freedom a contract was written up and signed in facts to lease office in Somalia pirates have offices and fax machines. And then the day before Rachel Paul was scheduled to be released the pirates let Stephen talk directly to Paul what we have made arrangements poll to deliver money to the parts by plane. To attend clue Dado tomorrow at eleven o'clock. Yes. Yes. Now, it's the plane can run the game to click you. Then you move say with a Mista Muhammed Aiden tomorrow night in Edyta. Yes. Now here how many Aiden he's the district of Nha. Who lives in the show? And he's not apart. I repeat he is not apart. Yes. He's bookie on our side. He's a good, man. You can trust him. I'm an added guy Stephen mentions. He's the governor of a region in Somalia were Rachel empower held. He's actually American Somali American his born in Mogadishu, but spent half his life in Minneapolis must people. Call him by his nickname TI, Stephen says apart I repeat as not apart. It's actually the question of this story TI took a public stand against piracy work to end piracy in his area. But then ended up in a Belgian prison arrested for piracy and for criminal organization. He was in that prison when the story for Sarah today shows a rerun from two years ago. He denies the charges though. Of course, as you just heard denying your pirate is an old tradition in pirating. So is he innocent. Does. He pirate is colluding with pirates. If he is how does a guy who comes all the way from America with the best of intentions hoping to do the right things end up in this situation. Whatever producers Dana is into it t I used to be just another boring data Minnesota in two thousand eight he was finishing a masters degree in public administration at Minnesota state and starting a small health services company. He lived in three bedroom condo in the suburbs of Minneapolis with his wife shops. Oh and their five sons. He was a regular WalMart shopping football loving homework. Checking father he was also active in the small community in Minneapolis. And he did this thing that do good or experts. Do he raised money from other members of his clan? Send back home tried to improve things back in Somalia, clans, run Somalia. There's no powerful central government there and TI's clan is made up of hundreds of thousands of people in two thousand eight the clan was trying to. Restore order to part of the country. They're from a region called him in head a five thousand square mile patch of sand that hadn't had a functioning government since the early nineties a place with no running water rife with bandits warlords were camel herders wandered, the desert and pirates plundered the sees where you couldn't drive from one town to another because the warring tribes wouldn't allow it. So members of the clan from all over the world gathered in Dubai to come up with a plan to create a government there. T-? I went to that conference. He says he was actually picked to run the meeting and he did such a good job the clan. Elders drafted him to be part of a small team. That would actually move to him in heb for three months, write a constitution and get government started. He's the guy who has trouble saying, no. So he flew to Africa directly from the conference. So we let you go back. You were you couldn't go back to Minneapolis. No, you want St. street to know Samaya because they go back home as we would never come back. So in a way, it was set up. Yeah. It was a setup conscripted if at the end of those three months he done such a good job that the local elders asked him to stay and run the place for a few years. He didn't wanna do it lobbied against it for a week. But his friends finally sat him down and said, you have no choice if any of us had been asked we do it. So he agreed. The appointed mate. That was my. They in my tired life. He saying it was the scariest day in his entire life. That's TI talking to me in January. He's calling me from the prison in Belgium. So it's a little hard to hear. I like like little go. Do you remember calling Trump? So and telling her this news. Actually what I do. I think to be honest, you she's she's what's called the both shooting. The one who works in the house. He says it was hard to bring himself to tell his wife. So he asked his friends to call her figuring. She couldn't say no to them. I do I didn't have the ball. First. He told his wife Shaam, so he'd only on a few months, but now he had to explain to her. Well, his friends did actually that he was gonna stay in Somalia for a few years leaving her with five boys to manage back in Minneapolis. Well, he lived in the lawless country they'd both fled years ago. When asked him what is goals were in Somalia? He said he didn't wanna die first of all by much about here today there. Walkway. My team was you know, to to make this vision the best I can. Mic safe to make new Dennis good. You know, like a lot of the appro- walking. And there's a lot of income on, you know, but it was a dream. I've been talking to TI since December. When I visited him at the prison in Belgium. It's a massive and forboding place with a moat for some reason TI doesn't look like a pirate. He looks like a professor he's six feet tall and a little chubby. He's forty four years old goatee that starting to gray. And since we met he's been calling me from phone in the lounge area of his cellblock, we've spent hours talking about his work in Somalia and his legal case, there's always a TV on in the background. So it can get a little tough to hear. Hey, good evening. How are you doing? Hey, I like talking to TI he smart. He has a good sense of humor. At one point. We're trying to figure out how much he's phone calls cost. He thought they were really expensive of a five so five seventy five minute is the best price for my God. I'm. It's like calling unpack Toco somewhere. No, minus not. Keesing you fire. See look at that. To share to. She turns out, by the way. TI? Overestimated, the calls were much less than that only about a dollar and change overestimating might be a character flaw of his as you'll hear. So here's the story. He told me about how he went into Somalia full of hope and good intentions and ended up in the clink in Belgium. TI's? First priority is governor of him in hab was to hire police and set up a court system. He knew he couldn't make any progress unless there was some security in the area. He heard police impede them. Fifty bucks a month? He told me he didn't pay his small administrative staff salary. I because he wanted to save the little money. He had for the police in the judges made sure they'd say on the side TI was setting up a government from scratch. So it's not like everyone just accepted the new order his first month there. The court heard a land dispute two men claimed to own the same piece of property and the guy who lost the case was pretty unhappy about it. So he had a bunch of relatives with guns surrounded the disputed land TI soldiers showed up and the occupiers. One of my soldier died. TI's men ended up killing three of the occupiers. I'm not proud of getting people. But that was actually the point of the respect that we get that's the bay that fishing became real restrictions after that incident. People started to respect he is new administration. He had thority now he was writing laws, and he was able to enforce them. But it was still pretty scary. Every morning when you wake up, you know, you thinking about how I'm going to die today. If I'm going to bet I'm going to bag with bullet. I might go today which kind. I might go into with suicide. I'm going to with my staff can in me. So that suits and the environment too. You're walking on. What I do daily is to solve the problems for the people whether it's lack of food nece water, that's TI tuck into a New York Times video journalist in two thousand nine a year after he started the government in other see you can measure your success. But this is too much of the success. You can see the people is that you have them feel good. You feel about that? That interview happen because New York Times reporter named Jeffrey Gettleman caught wind of the changes happening in Dotto, and he decided to go see for himself to get there. He had to hire one militia for the start of the journey who handed him off to a second militia who driven the rest of the way into Dotto. That we saw lots of new construction lots of houses with brand new shiny metal roofs, a relatively new school new stores like it was like an oasis of development in the middle of very neglected remote area. Did you feel safer there than you did in your other trips around solu-, I felt pretty safe there? And maybe that was totally ridiculous. But I felt safe there because I trust the TA and he had control like I I've been in small enough. I could kinda tell who was the real deal, and who is a pretender, and he seemed like the real deal. I still had one major problem to tackle pirates. They will more powerful than anyone else. I thought the years at TI was governor two thousand eight until twenty thirteen that's on the piracy epidemic was raging in Somalia. In fact, piracy was so pervasive that it was basically its own industry. One the cost the world economy. Billions each year in twenty ten more than a thousand people were taken hostage. Itsy nobody not the Somali federal government or rich. Western nations had been able to rouse them. TI's region was home to one of the most notorious pirate towns in Somalia a place called Herod Darah TI, set up local governments and other towns in the region. But when he went to Jared Darah, the elders there told him not to bother the pirates controlled everything they even set up a pirate stock exchange there in the building for anyone could go and buy shares in pirate venture, they had more guns and more men and more money than TI did and they weren't gonna listen to him. In April two thousand nine TI says he met with the president of Somalia and told him he needed help fighting the pirates. Luckily, the president had worked to radically piracy himself in the same area in two thousand six and it had worked for a little while the president knew someone who could help TI a guy called Mohammed Ali Hassan. He goes by the nickname f we n- which means big mouth. He was a small businessmen. And also, the godfather of modern Somali piracy f Wayne is the guy who figured out that you could run a piracy business like any other legitimate business by reason capital from investors and then funding piracy ventures on the high seas. Did you have the thought of like why would I hire a guy who's a big pirate to run my anti-piracy campaign actually, actually at that time? He was to be honest with you. I'm not hiding in team. It was he was if he says, so he wasn't wasn't hijacking ships no role. He was he was paced. You have office in that time. He's bringing Pat. Oh, that was his business chart is a leaf that gives you a little buzz when you to it. It's legal in Somalia and pirates apparently to the stuff all day long. What was a Flaine like as a member of the committee? What was he actually doing? New must of those guys especially amendment. He knows allow most of the middle, man. Yes. Yes. Even the kingpin a lot because most of them used to work for him doesn't seem like the greatest idea to hire. One of the most notorious pirates to help U N piracy TI said he didn't have much of a choice and actually f Wayne turn out to be really helpful. This was their plan step one pirate shaming convinced the local imams to start teaching people that piracy is forbidden in the Koran. So the pirates become ostracized step to create an economic incentive. Give the pirates other job opportunities that don't require hijacking and kidnapping like maybe create a market for fish step. Three pirate rehabilitation when they caught the lower level pirates. The soldiers TI sent them to a rehabilitation camp top them new job skills, including how to. Read and write and with the pirate bosses the kingpins TI had one especially attractive incentive to offer them to get them to quit the business immunity, which TI points out only applies to the Somali government. It doesn't mean the US or Britain or Belgium, for instance, couldn't capture them later. But he doesn't mention that part to them. You think I never liked them so high I the money line many light the kingpins. Yes. Yes. Lays too good to get them out of hiding, exactly. You have to lie because. You want to finish one to be your legacy? Twenty twelve pirate attacks on big ships had affectively stopped in all of Malia a lot of that had to do stuff that was happening on the water. Foreign navies were patrolling the ocean and maritime company started putting armed security on their boats and sailing faster and further from the coast. And in him and then head in December twenty twelve TI. I held a press conference where he sat on stage is a bunch of local pirates publicly retired in front of cameras and reporters in return for immunity. It was a huge moment for him. It was good. It was the biggest thing I ever done other than I introduced the peace order and good governors. So that's something. A few months after the press conference t I got an Email out of the blue from a guy called unis Collier. Who's with the film company in Europe? He said they wanted to make a documentary about piracy, and they wanted to talk to TI about how he dealt with the pirates in him in head TI agreed to meet New York for few days to talk about the project the filmmakers put him up at the Trump International hotel and tower right on central park. The first morning there UNICEF as up TI noticed. He was a little, hyper and his clothes were in his Mace's us expecting so TI teases him. You don't like, you know, you are in infinite company. It wasn't fancy. It wasn't fancy. I can't see that. So I talked about you don't at don't press like walking in. I I go okay Monday. I would call you have a good trip. Okay. Thanks so much. Have a good have a nice. I don't know. I guess a nice weekend you're in prison. But yeah, you say that okay. Sometimes I forget he's in prison. Anyway, we got back to the story. A few days later TI says Unis's boss was there. Also, they spent three days together took TI on a helicopter ride around Manhattan and out for nice meals. Eventually Eunice got down to business. He wanted TI enough. Wayne to be consultants on the film. What do you want? We gonna show you as he says, we're gonna pay you. You know, your time. How much are they gonna pay you? We be if the portrait finish on everything finished one hundred dollars each God. That's so much money. Yeah. It's one of east. That TI. Agreed. They had one last meal of the Grand Central Easter bar, the filmmakers asked t I to convince f Wayne to help to and once Wayne was onboard. They don't meet in Europe for a week or they'd get to work seventies. In Europe, two hundred thousand dollars each to consult on a film about pirates pirates who could refuse. TANF Wayne landed in Brussels a month later when they showed their passports. There was something wrong. With Wayne's visa they were escorted to airport. Police my gut feeling TENNIS New mean trouble, really what it is. Yes. So after one hour for that, I came. And you know, interest himself. He says, my name is fun hustle. I'm loose. And I'm here to take them away. He was all res all of it was fake Eunice Collier of the meetings in New York the documentary film about Radicati piracy. It was the Belgian federal police the whole time an elaborate plan to lure f Wayne to Belgium where they could arrest him and prosecute him for the hijacking of a Belgian ship called the Pompeii. The pump was taken in April two thousand nine which was actually just a few months before africaine joined up with TI to fight piracy. The Belgians found Africans DNA on a coffee Cup in the captain's cabin of the Pompeii. They use TI to get to African TI's lawyer says the Belgians weren't after TI at all but in their excitement over catching Wayne, they got carried away unlock TI up to did you did you feel a little like, the the world's worst prank had just been played on you. I feel like cheap. A what? Yeah. Cheap very cheap, cheap could unvetted cheap. Yeah. TI enough Wayne the guys who say they put the pirates out of business in him. And and heb we're both charged with piracy. There's pretty strong evidence against he I the Belgians are saying that when TI started working without pointing at Wayne was still hijacking ships, and I got wrapped up in Athens. Criminal organization would insert himself into the negotiations for hostage releases and used to run a little side hustle. He demand additional money from the hostages families. Tens of thousands of dollars for use of the airport at Dotto, that's extortion. The Belgians claim he extorted money from the families of hostages enforce Pacific. Piracy cases, one of them is the kidnapping of Rachel and Paul Chandler. That's the recording. You heard at the beginning of this story. Rachel's brother, Stephen is on the phone with Paul telling him to trustee. I days of good. You can trust him. He's not apart. I repeat he is not apart. But Stephen told me that wasn't how he actually felt about TI in that moment in reality. I was very skeptical of him and forty was just a. A greedy little faith to be honest. Coming up. Story we hear what actually happened between Stephen and TI the actual recordings of the conversations is trying to get the hostages safety. It isn't pretty that's in a minute which Kabul radio when our program continues. Support for this American life comes from squarespace, providing designer crafted website templates that are mobile friendly, ecommerce ready, and customizable, squarespace websites offer analytics tell you grow in real time with free and secure hosting and award-winning customer service. Make your idea stand out with a new website from squarespace start your free trial and receive a special offer on your first purchase at squarespace dot com slash American and use promo code American squarespace think it dream it. Make it. This American life glass today on our program. I am not a pirate stories where people make that claim. Apparently, it's something people say when they aren't pirate. At also when they are a pirate. We presented today show two years ago. We're in the middle of Dan Chavez's story about TI, Amanda return to Somalia to try to help out and ended up accused of criminal conspiracy with pirates, and we pick up the story in the middle of negotiation. The TI was involved in with Stephen Colette trying to arrange for safe passage for his sister in his brother-in-law Rachel and Paul who being held by pirates. Again, here's Dana this point in the negotiation. Stephen had agreed to pay the pirates four hundred forty thousand dollars for Rachel in Paul's release TI wasn't involved in that part of things, but he'd offered to help Stephen with the logistics of getting retail and Paul out of Somalia. T I wrote an Email saying his administration, quote are not part of the pirates and don't deal or an share money, and we are not expecting any. This word is capitalised any payment from the pirates or pollen, Rachel family. The only support we are offering was humanitarian support and to facilitate Paulin, Rachel safe passage. Stephen needed permission to use the airport in Dada, which is far as I can tell just a dusty landing strip a few miles outside town as governor TI, I was the only person who could give planes permission to land there. So Stephen called TI to get that permission. Inside. Did she talk about logistics? And then Stephen asks how much is this gonna cost of because we nothing that. Listen, not gonna chart you. And. Kony? I'm not gonna watch you one of the. Money all any eight. I'm doing this material found out. Kinda hard to hear TI says I'm not going to charge you anything as long as you pay the expenses four days later when Stephen calls TI back. There's been a slight hitch in the plan they were going to get the money to the pirates through guy in Nairobi, but that fell through. So now they need to deliver the ransom money to the pirates at the Dotto airport. TI doesn't like this before the plane was just coming to pick up Rachel and Paul. But now it's also bringing a huge sack of cash, and he says that creates a big security risk. He's worried people might get violent and steal the money hill allow it, but he needs extra security. Go ahead. I'm brings the money to to hear music who almost I rented about one hundred people soldiers in the air force today at the secure the barometer on everything indicates, so including the fee and everything it's gonna be twenty one seven hundred fifty. Can you repeat that place? Okay. Okay. We Stephen lorraine's for about seventy to one hundred soldiers to secure the airport, which will cost even twenty one thousand seven hundred and fifty dollars. Stephen wasn't expecting that. I know I'm I'm confused about is cost. Muhammad. You told me many times, it would not take any money. I I know it's it's difficult. The family doesn't have this amount of money to spell because we give. Give name. Money one you want. You know, if you'll find out. Okay. This wouldn't doing Davis landing team the ex- police that we put it expensive. We came up. Like. In other countries, we small unsatiable, it's beyond. We have a lot of effort indicates. I appreciate it. But we just do not have we just do not have twenty thousand dollars. So what are you Ted in me? Is you don't have I understand. But how could I saw this? What do you need school to do you need? So what should I do? Can you feel call? Depending on how you hear this call there. Either in the midst of a beer credit stalemate or a small time extortion. This one. Name. I bet we did. Something goes to the of. Menu. Getting for that TI's saying that the number. He gave Stephen the twenty one thousand seven hundred and fifty dollars. That's the minimum amount needed to cover the expenses for securing the airport. He's not personally getting any of that money. They do some more haggling. And then TI says let me see what I can do a few minutes later. He calls Steven back. He's managed to secure a discount. One seven fifty. And then we say fifty percents. Com. That is gonna be. In. Eighty seven cents. Yeah. You know, we have this money. That have the money, and it's going to take me alone time to get hold of it. To you. This is what he wants is on you'll want that airplane come with the money, not security, and then they hand out everything. That's what he wants. And then the stock in my people on then almost fifty seven people died. Because of this tomorrow, money and vehicle w one closer than anyone head incident. Steven didn't believe the tea I was worried about security. He thought it was a scam. He knew he'd go to he he was in control. It was his field. He do what he liked. We'd spoken to local pilots the Bush points who do sometimes run into these places. A nascent gnome of fee was about one hundred dollars a hundred dollars a normal landing fee. Yes. And he's asking for twenty one thousand seven hundred fifty dollars. That's right. The then he gave us a discount fifth cash. Yeah. He did. The UN released a report that has a lengthy section on TI enough, Wayne and their alleged criminal activity it mirrors, the Belgian case closely, and in it there's a sheet from the Himanen heb regional administration it signed by TI and outlines fees for airlines using the Datta airport. The costs are five dollars per ticket one dollars per sack of outgoing goods fifty dollar security fee for fifty seat flight. Of course, those prices were for normal flights in and out of Dotto carrying regular passengers and bags of chat, not to British hostages nearly half a million dollars, but still given those prices twenty one thousand seven hundred and fifty dollars seems a bit extravagant even with the extra security. I went around and around with TI about this fee, and what it was spent on. And it never added up. Maybe he was pocketing part of the cash. Maybe he wasn't maybe the people he had to pay for the use of the airport and security were inflating their price. There's no way to know for sure. Finally, Stephen gave in they agreed on a price of twenty thousand dollars the money was transferred to a him in inhabited ministration account TI assure Stephen it's modest personal account. He's not a dictator. The ransom and rescue operation is set for June. Seventeenth the pilot will take off from Nairobi at dawn with a leather bag containing five bundles of one hundred dollar bills four hundred forty thousand dollars in total. There's one last glitch, which is that the pilot refuses to actually touch down in Dotto because we won't recoup recoup parts. So instead, he'll fly very low to the ground and two security guys on board will Chuck the ransom out the window into the pirates hands a guy called Allie. He's the pirates even has been negotiating with for months. The pilot will know where Ali is because and I'm not joking here. He will Mark the spot with an X on the roof of his car. Now TI had told Stephen he would supply a hundred policemen to provide security at the airport, but when the pilot got into a data's airspace. All he saw was one lonely car with an excellent it's roof parked off the end of the runway the pilot was already on the phone with Stephen says, even called TI and said. So said the never vaguely paid from town. The pilots Ilias can see. Pick-up coming from town. I with a couple of Maine, in fact, oh my God. So his one hundred security men and five armored cars turned out to be to make up truck and two guys will pick up truck driving into goes in and who were late relate the pilot did one low pass and then on the second. They through the ransom out. The window alley called Steven few minutes later to confirm he had the money. The pirates were supposed to spend the next few counting it, and then once they confirmed it was all there they would hand ritual Impala over. So what what happened? So. Wouldn't Quant and that war dissident to we did have suspicions eve night. We is doesn't sound good. And we did try ringing, Andy, but his phone was turned of night. He didn't hear from Elliot again for two days. And then Stephen got a text demanding another one million dollars in ransom. Eventually Stephen got alley on the phone Alley's gone, full Blackbeard and Stevens stiff upper lip is gone. He tries threats alley mocks him. Here's that call Rabl all bosses, but the Somali parts cannot be trusted the you. You cannot be listed. I will tell you. If you don't. Or? All these old. Do you know that pirates are all thieves were all dirty people like come on? Stephen, what did you expect alley laughs at him? Teaching scum at the owners will never ever trust. You a guy when you're ready to the release of Wrightson pool. Cool me you have number even cool fish time between eleven and twelve o'clock you'll time. Talk about the release of rates on pole. I we'll talk about the money. Didn't release Rachel and Paul for another five months. Fast forward to now, the UN and the Belgians Stephen Colette say that those phone calls were TI's demanding money of Stephen that's extortion. He's refusing to let Steven use the Datta airport unless Stephen pays him in amount that far exceeds the normal cost for use of the airport. And they say this is part of a pattern with TI that he did this in at least three other hostage cases up to one hundred twenty thousand dollars in one case TI says he's innocent of all charges of wrongdoing. But two months after we started talking I heard all those recordings of his phone calls. And I realized that some of the things he told me weren't true. For instance, we were talking about the plan for retail and Paul's release, and he told me. He says there's no cost whatsoever. That's not what I heard on that phone. Call was Steven you're saying you didn't ask him for any money. No, no. I I think I think we can clear this up. I wanna play something for you. So the fees and everything, but the the it's going to come to one and one seven hundred fifty him. Plead him that phone call you heard? I he sounded confused. He stuck with his denial fever quality corny. But I never came out money. Will you just I mean, you just heard yourself, right? Ask him for money in that tape. I just played you. I I just done clearly t I told me the twenty one thousand seven hundred fifty dollars was money. The airport owners were demanding not him. But I mean, you can you can see how this would look like extortion. In a way. Expulsion? But before them social. How is it not extortion of much Monica? Explain how. Okay. So he social. I and son. That's what I'm saying. But to me that time I have that much meaning his administration couldn't cover the expenses. And the fact that no security was on duty when the pilot drop the ransom TI explained that when he learned the pilot wasn't gonna land the plane. He decided there was no reason to send police that day. But he says he used evens money five months later when Rachel and Paul were finally released and in a book Rato in Paul wrote about their ordeal. They do describe drive into the airport with TI in a convoy of fifteen Toyotas and three or four trucks mounted with guns. You had to hang up before we were done talking about this. The next time. I reached him was two days later. Let me go back a little bit. This is I never discussed anyone before this one. What I'm saying? Except to. I I call the airports t. And I told them that this is what's going to happen. Tells me he asked the owners of the airport to let Rachel Paul use it for free as a humanitarian gesture, but they said, no, they said, we built an airport we get to charge people use it. So then TI says he went to the regional parliament and ask them to step in. I wasn't able to confirm any of this. By the way, he says they also said no his hands were tied. He had to ask for the twenty one seven fifty. He said actually, the airport owners weren't making much profit for themselves at that price, regardless twenty one thousand seven hundred and fifty dollars is the number. He no admits he demanded from Steven actually he didn't he didn't like it. No on on on. Who I knew that? Because if I wear shoes it's going to be saying would we'll bist of. Unfeasible theater. You know, like to me something. Plane to him I explained to him again, and again and then. Explain it to him. It sounds very much as though you're telling him I'm in charge of the airport. And and I talked to my committee and we assessed that it's going to cost you this much. You don't explain it to him the way that you just explained it to me, which is I mean, in the way, you just explained to me you're not responsible for any of the costs. But I did want to screen the way. I explain to you. How come I didn't want? I want to show him that was kind of weak in a win. It shows me that I was weak, and I didn't want to show that I and I'm telling you that I never discussed anyone before except you know, what were you worried about? Why were you worried about looking weak to Stephen? Because what I'm saying is if even find out that these I don't have control anything, then he he wouldn't find out that I don't have a control what I'm saying. I'm the man who says, hey, I couldn't pull him in a way. Yes. I didn't like about that. But I don't control Sefton Attias. And and there's a certain elements that I have. No, I thought it whatsoever. T? I told me he was worried that if Steven or the pirates realized he didn't have as much control over the airport as they thought he did that the deal would fall apart and Rachel in Paul would remain in captivity. So he swallowed a bitter pill and demanded the money from Stephen. Yes. Of course, I lost that walk. But I knew I I I'm gonna win another war. I was feeling very complicated. I was feeding vary in a way. Yes. I'm I'm doing something postive and in a way that I was doing something horrible. And I'm the one who's leaving the message both both sides. He was doing something positive helping to free Rachel and Paul, and he was doing something horrible demanding money from Rachel's, desperate, brother. I should do differently. My intention was very goes on never be a pilot of my life. I if I did some call all if I did something still bid or something that some other person like it. I'm sorry. My intention was good. That's that's what I'm saying. I don't know how to explain other than that. Somali pirates were once just some Ali fishermen, but then in the nineties during the civil war when there was no longer government watched foreign boats sail into their waters scoop up their fish and leave unpunished so they decided to do something about it initially the fishermen just wanted to scare the legal boats away. But then some of them started charging those boats of fine finds turned into ransoms and some Ali piracy was born in a semi lawless state like some Olea without a functioning government. Everything is up. Rationalization? One man's fine is another man's ransom or TI's case one man's airport fee is another man's extortion. I think it's possible that TI. Sincerely believes he was doing the right thing. Randall this past a former US diplomat who worked in Somalia and his followed it closely for years. She didn't want me to use her name, but she dealt with TI when he was an dot O, and she's worked with lots of people in Somalia liked TI people who spent years in the US, and then return to work in Somalia. She says people like TI who've lived outside Smalley for years. They often have a hard time when they return she called them in between people they come of age living in the US. Learn how the country runs here. And then they go back and they can't play the US game one hundred percent, but they also can't play the Somali game one hundred percent and they get in trouble. She said TI probably went to him and in head with the best of intentions, but she said quote with no finances to support government functions and one of the most dangerous security situations anywhere in the world TI and others have been drawn into that murky place where they believe that they have no choice, but to find combinations with those who are engaged in corrupt or criminal practices with their western backgrounds. They can't claim that they don't understand what constitutes criminal behavior. She told me TI meddled in too many things he should have stayed out of. And he wasn't savvy enough to protect himself to add layers of deniability have someone else handle those phone negotiations put some distance between himself and the criminals not that. She was advocating these things for him or anyone else. And she wanted me to make clear that she does not condone piracy. But that was her theory. I put this to TI he agreed that he should have protected himself better. Basically the moral of what happened to me? So I learned my lesson which is that you have to protect yourself. Whatever it takes do you think you were a little naive? Yes. I was. That's what I said. Right. I say that wasn't if I get it away. Because I didn't think about the clinical I posted. We we got in Bedford tool that everybody was helping. So that's why. Yeah, I wasn't eve. TI's case is on appeal right now, the piracy charges were dropped for lack of evidence. But he was convicted of being involved in a criminal organization of pirates. If he loses the appeal he could spend the next six years in prison if he wins he could get out in June. Once he's out. He says we'll go back to Minneapolis take a pause his kids. But after that he might return to small Lia and run for president. Dan Chavez since reverse broadcast this story in twenty seventeen TI's appeal did not work out. How we wanted. Here's release from prison in twenty seventeen after serving four years in two months, he returned to Minnesota to be with his family. But then after just six months, he returned to Somalia he's there now and is running for president of one of the states there. To see Yoho. So today, we've heard two stories about how when you close to pirates people start thinking that you're one of them that you're living by pirate rules. So we thought it would close today's program with this story of somebody who got involved with pirates, and then went on to remake the roles remake the rules of piracy here Stephanie FU, so here's a fact, I learned recently that I love the most powerful pirate of all time was a woman. Her name was chang- Isao. She makes the other pirates look like amatuers. She makes Blackbeard look like an amateur. Absolutely. She had way more money. She had a bigger fleet. She pirated for longer, and she was more successful. That's Laura up Duncombe who wrote about Chinese owner book pirate women the princesses prostitutes. And privateers who ruled the seven seas sow was Chinese. She was working on a floating brothel in the early eighteen hundreds when a pie. Britt Chenji propose marriage tour. We don't know much about their love story. So this is a bit of legend. But supposedly at first Cheney sow turned him down and tried to claw his eyes out. Then after some thought she agreed that she would marry him. But only if you would give her half of his fleet and his treasure and he went along with it. Any husband was a pretty big deal already. But once they got married. The two of them got to work uniting warring pirate factions into one pirate monopoly when her husband died. Cheng Sao took over as leader of the pirate empire and grew it to the largest pirate fleet in history. Which some members of our staff have insisted I mentioned is apparently a very Kalisa move. I don't know. I don't watch game of thrones. Anyway, Blackbeard had maybe four ships with pirates, but Chinese how anywhere from fifty to seventy thousand pirates with a around two thousand ships all told this is larger than many legitimate navies of the time periods, certainly the Chinese navy and just one year eighteen o eight they destroyed half of the Chinese navy's entire fleet sixty three out of a hundred and thirty five ships having seventy thousand employees. That's as big as Exxon Mobil, so Jenny sow ran it like a corporation. She had. Offices on shore where she managed her counts. And she came up with a whole new way of making tons of money. A protection racket where salt ships and rich coastal cities paid regular taxes to the pirates. If you didn't pay you got pillaged, it was like the seafaring, mafia, and we're other pirates not doing that. That was really a kind of a chimney so innovation one of her many. How old was she when she was doing all of this. So she was thirty two when she took command. I don't know what I'm doing with my life. Another innovation of Chinese sow the rules on Herships. We know about these from book written at the time in eighteen thirty most captains had rules on their ships. Of course, by her punishments were particularly extreme for instance, rule number one, don't go eight wall. So anyone goes on shore without Cheney sows permission? They get their ears slit if they do it again, they're suffered death. They're they're killed real number two. Don't steel company treasure. Each crew could keep twenty percent of the Budi at plundered the rest went into the company treasure hold and the punishment for taking more again death. There's a pretty consistent theme here. Yeah. Lot lots of death. You know, you you disobey Chinky sow death is in your future. But the most famous rule in her employee. Handbook is the one Laura thinks no other pirate. Had they could not rape their female captives the punishment. You guessed it death immediate death. Chevy's out ran this operation solo for three years. She evaded Chinese authorities until finally China had lost so much money and so much control of its waters that they resorted to something they really hated doing. They asked other countries for help England and Portugal loan the Chinese government ships and with the ships. They come after her and trap her in a bay. They finally have her where they want her. So they have her surrounded people from all over Chinese government officials are coming to witness the end of this great pirate. Like, there's no way she's getting out of this. And they're setting up lawn chairs on the deck, basically to to watch her defeat. They fire on her for eight days, but they can't sink her. Finally, they send out fireboats flaming boats full of explosives to her fleet. But then the wind changes the fireboats. I'm right back towards the government ships and damaged them instead Jenny sow gets away. But she decided she couldn't keep this up forever. So she went to Chinese leaders to negotiate a surrender. She doctorship and walked directly into the governor general's headquarters onshore they're expecting, you know, pirate Queen armed to the teeth with a full complement of like burly bodyguards, come ITO. She's terrifying. Figure and in walks. This, you know, thirty five year old woman with some wives and some children and must have taken them completely by surprise. And I think it gave her the upper hand in the negotiations, and she got an incredible deal that amounted to basically a retirement package for her and her employee's. She got to keep her plunder secured pardons for almost all of her pirates. But she also secured government payouts for her and her pirates to transition into civilian life and spots for some of them in the Chinese navy as part of this Chaney sow wrote a letter. Of surrender to the Chinese government. Laura. Read part of it for me, originally, we were good people, but we became pirates for a variety of reasons because some of us were not careful in making friends, we fell into a bad situation became robbers other of us were unable to secure livelihood or captured and forced into piracy. Therefore, we violated the laws of the empire and destroyed the merchants this was unavoidable. I love how the I love this was unavoidable. Like, yes, like, I I would say almost star cast it because it's clear she holds all the power, and she does not need to do this. Laura says wherever there was piracy. There were women pirates. They spent hundreds of years across the globe. It was an unusually progressive workplace for the time. It's the funny thing about piracy it. Oh, it's you're not going to see a woman could not expect to rise to the ranks where they were competing with men and commanding men in most legitimate societies. And yet we see it over and over again in piracy that these women just sort of excelled, and I I like to think of the stakes were a little bit higher. If they had to go back on land to be gentle lady's sitting in parlors or doing whatever work was available to women of these time periods. They knew what was what was in store for them if they were unsuccessful. So I think they it just made them fight harder work harder. That sounds very familiar. Stephanie. Alone sailing by the stores across the says. With no as kids aids. The. Verde men who. What bug? Stay by Stephanie FU, our staff staffer the show includes Baker Susan Burton Bencun that we chased in Shiva's Sean Cole new drumming. Seth man. Jonathan heave are Robin semi-in Christmas, Attala material, Diane. Woo but action help from Viva Cornfeld senior producer for today shows Brian read, especially thanks today to Laura Heaton, Clara, Moses Ogden. Michael, Scott, more, John Steed, oceans beyond piracy, Marcus Rediker. Diane Murray, Mark Hanna this joined that you heard at the top of the program is the author of pirates Ness and the rise of the British empire. Fifteen seventy to seventeen forty our website this American life dot org. This American life is public radio stations by PR X, the public radio exchange sport for this. American. Life comes from air table. Their table is the all in one cooperation platform used by creative teams that companies like Atlantic records, Conde nast entertainment, and we work to manage their work their way, visit era table dot com slash American special offer. Eligible to this American life listeners. They says always programs co co-founder, Mr. Tori, mount t you know, he does me all the time the radio show keep calling him calling him always with the same message. We cannot work for this guy. I'm IRA glass back next week with more stories this American life. Next week on the podcast of this American life in the nearly five years since policeman shot Michael Brown and Ferguson, Missouri about half a dozen people connected to the protests and aftermath have turned up dead, Johnny Cobb traveled Ferguson where you know, like nobody wants to believe in a conspiracy. What are you supposed to believe when in the past so many awful other things have turned out to be true conspiracy theories seemed to be everywhere these days all around us? So when is it right to connect the dots? This next week on the podcast, the public radio station.

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[Encore Episode] 51 The Birth of Online Dating (September 24, 2018)

2 Girls 1 Podcast

1:08:43 hr | 1 year ago

[Encore Episode] 51 The Birth of Online Dating (September 24, 2018)

"Hey friends we got a lot of new stuff coming at you but today we've got an encore episode. That's right I'm still single. I still haven't tried women and once you listened to today's episode. That'll make more sense. Welcome new listeners. We are happy to have you here and we are excited. To bring you Gary Kremlin yet again. The founder of Online Dating Aka. The man who ruined my life. It's a great interview and I hope you enjoy it. Say everybody I'm Jen. I'm Ali Hassan. Podcast Malcolm thank you so much for listening. We're so happy that you're here so to briefly. Tell you who we are. Allie and I are performers who've been performing Internet material live on stage using the Internet as our script for a lot of years We went down. A lot of weird wormholes and fascinating were holes and we learned a lot about different communities from there remained a web series called girls. One show which you can find on hoo-ha Dot Com Matt. Don't Echo Yeah. I knew it. I thought it was over anyway. We made a web series where we did these interviews. We've unscripted adventures and from there. We decided the inner so awesome that we wanted to make this podcast with Matt and the daily Dots. And you know here we are you know. Hello Matthew or you guys. We're pretty well pretty well today. We have a really freaking cool show. It's a little monumental. Now you guys know that. I have talked a ton about online dating and it's always tragic today. We're going to beat the founder of online dating and that is not an overstatement we are speaking to Gerry. Kremlin who founded match DOT com. So this guy truly truly was a pioneer as I say a lot on the show is the founder of my dating which is really actually I mean. The story is incredible We'll see how much get to today. But it's really pretty wild and it really changed. I think not just dating. But it's changed a lot of the way like the way that people interact on the Internet and I think it's also a major contributor to text culture alley. No what I wanted to say. I'm so glad you said. He's a pioneer because that was in my brain as well but also he birthed it which is a little bit of a mother number. Yeah as he's an anchor and also a visionary and wow. We haven't used that word on the show but yeah he really is. We thought the story is so fascinating. About how and his team was against him and wanted to just like put newspaper personals online and like give newspapers the technology and of course they were moving too slow and the whole thing is really kind of wild speaking of newspaper personals in preparation for this. I was thinking a lot about like what what dating was like before we had online dating and I completely forgot because we were too young to do it. You use you could place dating personals in a newspaper. Do you know that that was yeah? I mean other than meeting people the old fashioned way I mean in terms of yet in terms of dating services that was a pretty much the only thing that was available thank although I'm really excited to ask him what the landscape was like before he invented match dot com. Be Too I. I was looking up some newspaper. Personals just curious as like what did these look. I was at reading them as a kid. I mean third kind of similar to what you might read on dating sites today but like here's one for example it says forever single and the title of it and the person says phooey says this very attractive slim successful male professional thirty. Who's more sensitive? The mother Theresa More Lovable Than E. T. wiser than iota and more modest on a presidential candidate seeking seeking a pretty slim warm female warm. Who you're better not be dead serious relationship. That is more fun than humans. Being should be allowed to have these and they are really. It's like it seems like they're from the nineteen fifties but they're from this eighty four. Actually I love that. You found that. Wait what else did you find? Okay hold on. That was very rare. I mean in ways that was like significantly more poetic and informative than anything I've ever seen on tinder. I quit match. The match group now owns but yeah I mean on all that's right okay. The purpose of life is the title revealed here for the first time fun intimacy bearing witness to each other's days and nights. Creativity sensuality lazy. Sunday's art music and with the right person raising children very bright attractive thirty one year old man seeks pretty Gal in her twenties with similar similar views prominent ideals and prominent dare who is not the type to answer an ad that guy nowadays would be sending Dick Pic. I know that's one thousand nine hundred five. Wow I just love how. It wasn't even a thing back then to be like yeah. I'm like forty years old seeking an eighteen year old. What's changed the other thing is that personals were considered like pretty low brow and dirty and like now. They're like love letters. Do you know what I mean like. That's communities were so small like if these were in local newspapers I guess they were anonymous right but it. By the person. I'd be like Oh that Guy. He's friendlier than Et. I know who this dude is wiser than Yoda? And he's humble as president humility humility and presidency. Don't I don't know about those anymore. I don't talk about the perfect. The perfect ad from Nineteen eighty-four. Let me reference every Popular Spielberg movie. Ara- from that year and Yeah I wonder if he met the woman of his dreams based on that too now. Here's the real question. Does he look like a Combo of iota and et? That's my dream. Is the number one problem with these personals to anonymous and there were no photos come along it would take to set up a date. You were composed that it would take you like two weeks to write then you would send it into the local paper. Another two weeks publish it. We used to go by before you got a date. Probably have you guys? Seen the video. Dating Archives from the eighties ended up on Youtube. A couple of years yes. It's exactly what you just read in video for amazing right with big hair. Yeah listeners. If you haven't watched that you're doing yourself a disservice. It's just so great to see how people put themselves out there and what was considered attractive. And it's hilarious. Lucy graphics guys. I'm really excited about today's show. I'M EXCITED SPEAK TO GERRY. But we do need to take a break. I'm sorry so let's be serious matthew. You're not excited. You don't care at all about online dating. You don't know what it is or maybe you're really interested as like how. How does the other half live? This is what I'm saying like what's Internet dating. I've never even heard of it. It's going to blow your mind. It's GonNa blow your mind all my non single friends like swipe through dating APPs. I'm sure they do for you too right. L. Matt my views single friend of mine. A while back showed me tinder like in the early days of tender. Become have you taken? Meinen Jen's phone and just swiped for US please ask is a produce. Oriole DUTY OF YOURS. I will produce your date. Let's break because apparently breaks make you more productive. So let's do it. It's true it's true but but before we do that we have to have trivia. I'm sorry I know I know you think federally legislated what's wrong. I don't make the rules. I just follow them. Today's episode about online dating but the concept of computer matchmaking has actually been around since the mid nineteen sixty s going going away back to the beginning of computers the first digital a dating service in the US was created by two guys in a Harvard. Dorm Room in one thousand nine sixty five sounds a little familiar. Yeah what's up with that all right for three dollars? College age singles could mail in a questionnaire about themselves and this questionnaire included things like do you believe in a God who answers prayer and is extensive sexual activity in preparation for marriage. Part of growing up. These were some of the questions that would like their extensive just inclusion of the the the the word extensive. That's I thought about was gonNA tell us he'd give us three dollars if we got it right but it turns out that snow. You're saying that that is just the premise of this question but then to top it off. Clerical workers would then type the questionnaires manually into an IBM computer. Which was about the size of a bus and it would. It would imprint onto punchcards. This is the old Ye olden days of punch-card computing. And then the computer would cross reference the answers and spit out five potential matches and then those matches were mailed back to the applicants by US Postal Mail and the address. I think phone numbers of the matches and it was up to you to like. Call THEM UP. Send them a letter etc. That is the dreamy EST shit. I have ever heard the question though from this crazy time is what was this early. Computer dating service called. It was actually a business that was presented to the public. And what did they call it? Here are your choices. A matchmaker matchmaker. Okay Yes yes compatibility -bility more see operation match. I feel like the answer is C. But I'M GONNA go with fiddler on the roof a I'm going to go with compatibility simple to the point. We will find out the correct answer after the break. So guys Matt's always telling us like not to talk about sex so much we know like some of your injured or whatever if you need more sex in your life and love and dating and relationships all of that we have a podcast to recommend Frio. It's called seek treatment. They are so fun they almost make me want to move back to New York. Said they would maybe hang out with me. Oh well when you come to visit US meet up it's Katherine Cohen. Pat Reagan fat cat back at and they have a guest on every week and they're just dishing the dirt you really feel like you're right there with them and they're also comedians so it's highlight. Yes it is it is a fun time and you should check out PAT and cat. I also refer to themselves as shy slutty psycho bitches. That alone should intrigue you to seek treatment. Yeah how do you not want to hang out with that so check it out seek treatment you can find it actually telling you to seek treatment words to look up this gas but I'll look up seek treatment wherever you find your favorite podcast and website. You think hey we're been henry and Marcus. Host of the last podcast on the left are shows dedicated to uncovering hilariously horrifying stuff. Like alleged LUMINOSITY CONSPIRACIES SATANIC DOOMSDAY CULTS. And of course unfounded claims alien contact and now the last podcast and left exclusively on spotify. And we want you to join us. That is if you want to. Yeah obviously we'd never force anyone to just blindly joy no way just because we're super into urban legends and colts who creepy things like Chan. Choi does that mean. We are creepy coal and matching linens fashionably running around trying to get innocent people absolutely not because that be crazy but if you like stories about doomsday cults the do exactly that and more than please on spotify visit spotify dot com slash last podcast to listen free retail borough connection advertisement entitle weakest midnight. Menu ran away woman. What rival snout out dating website got breaks boys to the yard? You five eight scruffy glasses wearing a black hoodie outside and I asked you for a lighter. You lit my cigarette and we talked about our wishes for the New Year. We had the countdown. Starion decided to stay outside. I started to cry. And you kiss me and then we started to make out after a minute. I felt something wrong and realized that you pissed yourself. I pushed you away. And that's when you ran but I wish you had stayed peed on me but it's okay I just WanNa know you please reply in when you do. Tell me why I started crying so I know it's you if you'll remember streams she's crying before she gets you think she would cry after she gets peed on. I think she was crying because she needed a good golden shower and then happened and she was like. Why did you run away? Do you get that feeling sometimes. Like hunger thirst where you're just like. I just need a golden shower. I want to make any of our listeners. Who enjoy a golden shower to feel bad but I personally have never felt the calling for a golden shower me. Neither I love when it's called at Sun so epic two girls who podcast go on go on matthew cloudy Golden shower community. It's an episode about the Golden Girls. Jets going to love it. It sounds like something you would win at the end of a video game or something right like ask for certain video games. That's what happens. Would you like to hear the Trivia Answer? I would definitely like to stop talking about golden showers. Today's question is about the origin of digital dating. I Dunno certainly wasn't called that. But dating dating computational dating this was not online dating our guest today. We'll discuss the beginnings of that but before the consumer Internet there were giant computers. That would shuffle. Punchcards around and try to match people based on compatibility quizzes but they mailed in it was developed by two. Harvard students in nineteen sixty five. Interestingly there was another similar service in the UK or Europe The year before. So it's not the first one but this is the first in the. Us The question today was. What is this called a matchmaker? Matchmaker be compatibility or see operation match alley. You went with Yeah only because I cannot let my people down. I don't believe it's the right answer though I let you sticking with it. Genuine with the clean compatibility choice. Be just that clean. Simple is that right. Yeah I can hear somebody saying that. In an old timey nineteen sixties about. I don't really know what that means. But yeah sure it's clean and simple. Let's do what's your timey. Nineteen sixties voice. I think it all sixties voice would sound like like mid Atlantic but that's probably forties like Katherine Hepburn. It's almost like what you do. Compatibility newscaster compatibility compatibility all right. Let's stop because I'm sure this is very annoying to your listeners. Radio direct answer is C. operation. Okay for the record. That's the one that I said I thought was right but I was sticking with people. Well Matt you change it up every week. That one was too obvious and yes right answer. Yeah very kind of energy so the actually the name of the company so that was the name of the the product system that they devise. The company was called like Compatibility Research Inc the most boring name. It started with like college age singles Verd- and then had up to seventy thousand applicants. Some of them are even still married today. Wow they gained national exposure on the game. Show to tell the truth. I think Tel The television show got wind of the project and featured them and they were getting letters from all over the all over the country may even all over the world in January. I find strangely delightful. You know what I mean because you know it's like Oh love letters and now we get Dick Pics. This is like this weird in between where it's like. This is like the Modern Day love letter. The Bay heads like fill up these questionnaires and go to these lengths and I love that. Like America was so taken aback by the story was so novel. And now it's like that's kind of how everybody needs. A hot works down way. I love that they gave it kind of like a militaristic name. It just sounds like people were flying to the moon around. That shouldn't get people to fuck each other. So interestingly on the fivethirtyeight look a little mini documentary about the computer dating service and the founders of it and also the people who used it and most of them are older at this point some some of them are still married but there was one woman who talked about how she got her five matches in the mail and it was. It was a list of names and addresses and phone numbers but at the time it was very customary for the man to make the first contact to reach out so a lot of would get their matches and just like wait for the phone to ring because it was not acceptable. It was very interesting observation a from the sixties and now we have bumble tumble so much guys. I deleted tinder again as I am now trying bumble resent so much that people call it with feminist dating APP because what is feminist about women having to do all the work anyhow. I've I think that's story about operation. Matchmaker matchmaker is I find it strangely. Adorable Yup Yup. Yeah I do too well. I think it's time to speak with our guest. Were thing definitely okay? So we're talking about all right. We are so excited right now. We're so excited right now. To speak with Gary Kremlin. He's an entrepreneur inventor investor. He's many projects and companies and interests. But we're speaking to him today about the fact that he founded match dot com. Welcome Gary and managed to be here today. All right Kerry we read that you launched match back in one thousand nine hundred ninety four. That's right I started thinking about it in ninety three but launched it in ninety four. When I came up with the idea from dating we would love to hear what was the landscape like back. Then and how did you get the idea to invent? The phenomenon has ruined my life. Ooh discuss that issue. In your life being ruined by sometimes the best entrepreneurial ideas are the ones you can kinda personally understand. The problem and my problem was I needed to find the right person to marry and Gary Meant to quality gates. Oh Okay so you can understand the challenge right. I understand your soul in. Maybe we can work on your challenge that you're having right now but so I was doing back then. One method of meeting people other than friends introduction and going to bars in hoping things helped you randomly was at the personal ads in the back of newspapers. Is anyone familiar with these? Lar- that's a good word for it. Lor that's right. Wow a lot of newspapers especially the alternative. Newspapers actually got most of their money from the classified advertising. Mentz in within class odds They would put people pay money to put ads. And then when you would wanNA contact with our senior after leave a message on a nine hundred number so it was a double way to make income and especially the alternative. Newspapers did really well with this model and I was using them in spending thousands of dollars trying to find ms right unsuccessful row. So were you actively dating people from personals. And how? How did that go? I was actively dating someone. Better than others My Best I had some low points. My best method was I had a good strategy where I I studied women and women trusted. So who do you think women trust their fathers? I don't know Iraqi so fast. Wow I was gonNA say Nice Guy. Police is this women's studies in College. Is that what people talk? That's really not no. Why did you? Why did I just started ellen? Sting professionals now you trust your nice gay friend right. Yes yet so I came up with this idea. Why don't I put ads in gay newspapers with my gay friend with Alagic that if you say gay man straight man the hard to get to women will all my gay friend is introducing me so I trust so I'll go on the day we back up so I confused so ads in the game papers that you were to friends looking for two people to date? Yeah Gay Guy Straight Guy. Looking for guidance. His hand fed phone. Okay this crafty. Well see what I'm saying. It's different distribution channel. I doesn't that dating site exist because I know isn't that a good question out to my friend brand you and I would double all the fucking time. I can't wait to send him this. Do you get the logic in fact. I just recently found the ad that I was doing like ninety one ninety two. Can you that ad? I need to see that but the thing. That's great about that from my perspective is of the date sucked. I would still get to hang out with brand exactly exactly so many wins here. So many wins exact. Okay okay I was doing things like that Did you have a gay friend or did you have to go find one like Brennan Mine? Simon Simon Simon was actually very helpful early on at match dot com to so great guy. So I was doing that. And you know sometimes it was hit or miss in stuff like that and said it was classified section classifieds setups and who you happen to me right right in the challenge was that wasn't quick interaction. There wasn't You didn't have audio union video. You didn't have a picture so what was happening at the same time as was doing One of my first startups. I did which was selling some software online on the nascent Internet. Tiff worlds first. Open source software company taking software downloading in Modem. If you remember that word and selling it to people at big corporations that didn't have access to the Internet calling Ah Ninety S. Yes early early nineties so one day I in email in this was all done through email because the web there was no or very little it was very academia academic and we would in what was happening is companies warned things like Lotus notes and they started hooking up to the outside world. So you can use to be only to send email internally within a company but people started hooking it up from the outside world in and we would start getting purchase. Orders are software. Maybe he's a couple of hundred bucks in. That was good because that meant we could eat that week feeding. Yes at done. A lot of that might sow. So one day we get a purchase order from Hewlett Packard. I'll never forget the day. It was like for seven hundred dollars at my partner comes running in goes. Oh my God we just got seven hundred dollar order when I look at it and I go. Oh look at its from it says from a woman she senate and he goes. We'll probably be Adleman The person who's ordering and I go. Yeah but you think she's cute. Okay all right. And then that was following. Here he goes. What are you talking about? I go in an attachment just been invented as I said. We'll one of. We could convince her to take her picture. The KINKO's scanner Dan and send it to us now. We discuss podcast before he goes his for Kink. You gotta remember the time. This is really back in the day. So how did you convince her? Why didn't put it? Was the genesis of the idea that like. Why don't we use email for a dating service? And you could attach pictures. And you can fill out a profile on an email form and I can rightous piece of software parse through it all and then look up in a database in find the closest match. That was the genesis. This is before the web and I quit that company that I started called. Los Altos Technologies moved from the San Jose Area. Up to the city at the same time we got a new. Ceo who inherit cold Meetings before companies. That's appropriate gun prayer meeting Jenin. I do that too. Yeah like it but we always do a little prayer. I prayed detector. That's honestly making sense. That's the genesis. That was the question you asked right. Yeah but but I mean. The whole thing is is amazing and fascinating. It just really speaks to help how much the world has changed so quickly and fundamentally so okay so you started this email service. Is that how it started? I can email service. So you would fill out this form. And then invented the idea of anonymous email stripping your email name and substituting it with a different name and main credit card advance bought a server and opened up was little dating service idea and so it was and that's how it was launched as an email service and how we're sign ups in the initial launch because as we all know there used to be huge stigma around online dating and now it couldn't be more normal so to speak. So what was that like? There was a year right. There was a huge stigma. But then I you know it's always successful successful. Ventures might be a series of inventions our idea's. You know the first thing people would prefer something with more information than what's in the newspaper. You know a couple lines at a newspaper with Cryptic Code. It preferred more information. Maybe a PIC picture to the second one was there was very little women online. I've been online since the early eighties and I realized one woman would bring fifty men especially if those picture so I came up with a marketing strategy. Kinda bars used to do of Lay's night just focus on getting women were talking about the heterosexual market and we we definitely did stuff in the LGBTQ market Significance which led to my downfall. That's what we did. We focus just on making the website work for women. We didn't care if it work well for men because we know for every woman. We'd have fifty minimum. Did you test this on yourself? To get started since it was generated from a personal need. I mean I looked at the information but I was dating someone at the time so I had that rare thing. That was actually with someone which was shocking. Because that was an arm. Nice so you just mentioned it and I read this on the Internet and thought it was really interesting Internet. It must be true. Everything you read on. The Internet is true. Oh God the things I've read about teletubbies and snipe severance okay. So you ended up so you had an argument with your VC's about servery serving the LGBTQ market and that's what led to you. Leaving can talk to us about that. Oh yes so. It's things started working growing at one to three percent a day. Sometimes we'll even before that I said okay. We need to have diversity inclusion and Mir what was going on in my opinion in the real world living in San Francisco but I raise money from investors and investors. It was a time where you know dating service. They didn't even want to tell their investors the limited partners about it and when they found out I added in. Lgbtq feature to the site they were just up in arms they were like what if our investors find out. We'RE GOING TO HAVE WE'RE GONNA lose our money. And they got their money from you. Know University pension funds and family offices. And you gotTa look at the Times. I guess if you if you try to look at it from The most favorable from their position and they told me to take it off and I said no. I'm serving a market. That has every right to have a dating service and we had a big disagreement that it led to you know she with the Gold has the rules even though they were all a bunch of man and they brought in a coo over me. Wow I love and hate that story so fucking match. Yeah so probably cracks me a couple of hundred million dollars my decision to advocate for lgbt access. It does it. Does it help that. You did the right thing so because it absolutely you did the right lane and you go down in history as having done the right thing. It's just so crazy to also I mean I'm glad gay rights are advancing as much as they are but the fact that in the ninety s that you wouldn't serve that market is also just insane because it speaks to how diversity is a business imperative like it's an enormous market that can bring you lots of dollars but you don't Wanna serve them so and and when when would spend hours at a going there well homophobic nature but even when I tried to get past that I would try to make a dollars and cents just rate of return argument and it was like talking to Stonewall It was it was crazy. It just shows how people's prejudices can affect the bottom line and in a capitalist society that just makes no sense to me. It's no doesn't yeah a problem where people don't want certain markets and then. Yeah they're losing out. My friend has a huge business just based on the fact that he is totally down to serve the Trans Community. He does custom suits but nobody else wants to serve them. It's fucking nuts sample. But I had these conservative investors that white shoe investors behind him and they were just absolutely opposed to that. They were absolutely opposed to any kind of dating. That wouldn't lead the marriage. You know like a long Sean. You Talk Straight White assholes time. They run everything. They run everything. Okay so yeah so. I don't know we got off on a tangent a little bit but it's not attention. I love it. This is the episode. Hanjin transients in their beliefs caused them to lose all the money in the end of the day. I was the only one who made any little bit of money on the whole thing but because of their transient. But that's another story. Why we tell that one so gary. I'm curious when this first started. Did you notice anything about the way that people were dating one another where people on the site looking for relationships with looking for hookups? What was the culture? I'm dating like at the time while again. There was this huge pressure for my investors to like ban hookups. You know it was crazy They said No. It has to be this long term relationship but I observed what was going on and it was clearly people were marrying what goes on in The non online world even which was ninety five percent of the market at the time and some were people. It was a continuum in a spectrum but to focus was because of this investor pressure on long term marriage long-term relationship marriage at the end of the day. They kind of made me do what they wanted to do. So you departed and I don't know if if after that you're like fuck it or if you still I mean this was over this over a year period. I stayed on the board. But you know when you're not. Ceo At least at the time it was. I actually should have stayed but it is what it is you know. Well can you talk to us from your insider perspective about how the online dating landscape grew and changed her. What contributed to the stigma disappearing? Just there I mean it's because it is so fast anyhow online dating has completely taken over and have been there from the beginning. What can you tell us about how that grew? You know it's funny you know we're talking about Lgbtq I it's Kinda like the same thing it's like the acceptance except when you're from a non accepting world had an acceptance happen well you met someone who Let's say was Trans and you're like. Oh this is just a person and I think same analogy is here. Which is oh. You met someone who met someone online. Oh well that they're they're good people so What's wrong with that? So that was one of the I would say. That's one of the things that happened. If that makes sense totally. I've a friend who married someone. And she kept telling me that they met through mutual friend and then at the wedding I realized I'd never met the mutual friend and then I realized they met online and I was really pretty pissed about it. Yeah I take. Us was that was in the beginning. A lot. Yeah this is like should they got married in like. Oh nine and she knew I was online dating and I'd be like bitching about online dating and she was like well. You know me and my husband. It was absurd and then I figured out and I was like you whore anybody what was going to say. I didn't start online dating until a year ago. And I think Jennifer Jennifer soap here vehicle from my reading group from Oxford graduates or whatever throughout this just a pioneer. I'm an early adopter late to the game. A I know I was skeptical of the quality of connection. You can make with you because I think some of some of the APPS in the last few years of earned sort of the best reputation because it can be about hookups. But I'm with you what's going on. What Bush. This is not a prude. Gary Johns actually like sixteen men right now Jenny Snapshot Me Right now. Back to what you were saying. You think it's not a deep series connection. It isn't while it's a line. The idea is still that you go meet offline line. What's wrong jen? People just have to have the right intentions going into it and I think some people I just WanNa have fun but that's fine too. It's nothing she wasn't my intent. It's just a lined intentions aligned intention. Exactly exactly yeah. You can actually tell us the story before we shamed. Eugen joined last year and and yeah and her dating life. It's been so much better. She's killing it now. Yea- let's hear more about it serious here. I WANNA TALK SALES GARY STARTING STATUTE. This is all going out on twitter to all the eligible partner. Okay here's something I want to know. Do you think you can find a love through an online service uses and cry? She claims her love for you. Average intervention and her CNN tens of billions of marriages through online dating. But are they in love? You can ask all marriages matthew kidding. I don't know John. I'm on your website right now so we might need to work a couple things sensing in real life. You haven't met anyone video. We did the daily dot looking at right. Now we're what we were talking about was the evolution of online dating. That's what we were talking about mine. And so what are your thoughts on how he grew and then how he gave rise to share and things like that and that whole ecosystem matching tender? But I'm a big fan of that location based dating. I mean you know. There is not one product that may fit all sides. You know it's evolved that matches more for long term and some things are more for. They STARTED HOOK UP BASE. But any hookup can lead to a long-term in some long term can lead the sharp term. I'm I'm for more. New Technology quicker looked there. There's a saying in business that contacts equal contracts so nearly the January deb Samore dates. It's a number that could yes. Yeah I'm working my way all right so before we move on to too much we do in here a little bit more about the early days of match so what else can does. Yeah so we did some pretty innovative stuff. You know invented anonymity. We invented the idea web different web pages for different people. Got Some patents there. I think we're probably the first technology company to hire women in numbers General Manny what even if there is some today maybe we were the first and only. Can you expand on that? Oh my God well you know. There was a belief that only men could do technology and startups said. Didn't probably change for fifteen years. Believe still exists. I've been wondering who have told me that women just aren't interested in technology and then I send them reading material and when it's clear that they've read it I ghost. I'm educating men. One tender data time. Thank you Ali. I started them. Send them video from the Claiming Institute for Gender Studies called leveling. Yes generally go to nice. Well Okay so. So you're like fuck this we're GonNa hire some women crazy that's right. Isn't that insane and a woman the run the business unit and because my belief was at least at the time the idea was you have to have a product and service that was focused on women only and this idea that you know men were They were in Cillari to the process but that was a big men are great at speaking for women. That's how exactly I'M GONNA GO Shelly Self. Yeah not seriously but the resistance that time what you WanNa hire women managers you out women to design a product. What is wrong with you? That's against all convention Fights over gender issues was pretty interesting because this was also the nineties. It wasn't that long ago like I love how I mean. I hate that. Everyone's like Oh me too. Things are changing for women. And I'm like this is the tip of the Iceberg Lake. All of the idea of women being able to do anything is so fucking new. Okay I have an answer. I have a tangential question. Gary you mentioned creating web pages individual pages for users. Does that mean that you you said the word invented or created. Does that mean you created the profile? The online profile is that accurate. I mean before we got there. A Web pages were static web pages. They wouldn't change depending on who you were. Or what kind of device you had Housi- Oh yes. This was so early on that there was probably a couple thousand thousand people on the web. So the idea that a webpage could be dynamic. That could change based on like. Let's say a match. That was something we came up with the idea for for nets used by a couple of billion people every justin dating in everything. That's actually how I ended up making any money on the whole thing but yes so you know when you're early sometimes you come up with inventions and ideas the idea of the two way match. That was our idea that I didn't have to just like you but it would be good if you liked me. You know yeah mutual. There's an idea. So were there. Any specific incidents that led to waves of people signing up and its eventual ascent into so-called normalcy. Yeah so there was. I kind of zeroing on what what questions in. What worked in profiles you know. In the beginning we asked two hundred questions YOU KINDA. Viking the harmony Kinda model founded. That's a real poor model. People just have attention spans. What people think they want? It's really is there. Someone close to me that Kinda hits the rough area of her by well. It's not always hot because Well hat is the I N. In the eye of the beholder. And it's not always images you know. It could be what someone says. Yeah Yeah for sure because it can allow you know. I think that movie Kissing Jessica Stein is a great example of that wasn't exactly what she was looking for. But it worked out okay I haven't actually seen that movie but a Heritz phantasm either grab. It's an old. It's an old school movie of The Times and I date myself sometimes with my reference. I know the movie it's about right. Well yes now. But it's about a woman who's looking for someone specific that's a soul mate and it was about the quote that did it and then she found. Oh is from a woman but the quote was so powerful. It allowed SPANNER HORIZON ABOUT BISEXUAL. Transcending all genders. I Dunno it's it's about that there might be. You know many things that could work. And if you're focused on just your narrow your ask is narrow your Your your set of people is narrow but if you brought in yourself out Jan made you do a little God dating so much. I know but it's because but also because she started online dating last year so now she's killing it. I know I know she. Killing it gots. I'm thankful killing it. I mean killing it as I've been dating a lot of people but I think for all but I think given what I want is a relationship so I think I'm getting closer to something meaningful but who knows. Just keep going until we find. It should be similar. Things getting therapy. Thank you very much channing. Gerry. What's what's your other. What's your dating advice for us to single women in our thirties were fucked could be could be. I mean there's clearly some Michigan's got nothing. You are talk this end badly. An I'm good with free. Can I start with freezing your eggs the way you're going that's another podcast episode? That's like oh it's for another different. That's for that V life. That's another podcast that we've been I was GONNA do an insurance company. Yeah you know. That's another entrepreneur but all my friends are freezing their eggs and is so fucking expensive unless you work for pays for it. It's expensive not think of the value of preserving your options that is valuable there so you don't have to panic and Mary some you know or get with you know have a baby with God knows what that is not the apple panics. Thinking like thinking like Guiseley just as you guys don't Xanax. Every morning you'll feel so much better. I don't feel any panic I should. I guess but I don't feel panicked. Yeah Alright Gary enough about our our withering eggs okay. So do you have any other major online dating advice to give to our listeners? I'm asking for a friend while I mean. Yeah I mean you know. I think the pickiness is the killer you know. You just need to broaden your horizons whether they be age race gender etc. You need to really just get some more at bats so to speak more rather than fewer. That's so upsetting. What else you do podcast talking to humans hanging out for my ex whether Yep oh I didn't ask you. You have a crazy story about how you finally met your wife. Can you tell that story? That would be my ex wife but Shortly went so far the judge. Will you married her? Jesus offered a reward. So here's the problem. Okay now. Jim Think of all your friends. I mean maybe three or four but at best city new friend So when they need someone think of all the people your friend can set someone out. How do you get there? Mindshare how do you get there? Eyeball people up more than triumphant. But they probably arpanet with you. Sell what I said is wonderful. Acl crazy so how do you get that setup among all the possible people who could be getting at how do you get that mind show so they think about this setup? Will you offer a reward like lead? Gen Fee so I gave a legion fee. So if you set me up with the person I marry you get the trip to Hawaii for two. And it hasn't changed to Hawaii would work man. I think this is a good idea. Like incentivizing setups incentivizing setup. I think would not be a bad idea. It's not a great title incentivizing setup dot com but I figured it's a really good model it. What about this firm cash pimpernel? Your friends definitely go by that. You are immediately and speaking of that takes us to our next topic. Which is you own some interesting you are ells on. I think it made some money just by like sitting on sex dot com right like I tell us those stories. What happened on your match? Your was during that sex's before so you know I saw even a greater vision than the jazz dating. I just saw the staging of the newspaper industry when I was researching personals and going out to talk in newspapers they thought they would have monopolies forever and I said well. Why are we putting pictures in classified advertising. Why can't we communicate same kind of thing dated so? I said I WANNA do on the classified advertising at the same time I was doing dating so I got jobs. Dot Com of DOT COM HOUSING DOT COM PROPERTY DOT com. All the good stuff. You know what I'm saying. Sex Dot Com ride you had sex DOT com. That's right that was actually just an afterthought that was a good afterthought took off after it's a good afterthought brilliant So you're sitting on all of these I'm sitting at him I was gonNA use them all so And data what happened was What what what happened was Someone stole it from five. Ten convicted felon convince someone at the network solutions. Who is the registry of the time to turn it over to? What will the bad dude you know what I mean okay and five time convicted felon? It's good dude there way. So where's it going? Is that a big legal fight with the guy got him tossed in jail And ran sex DOT COM for for five years. It's actually in the adult. Business is sex DOT COM. Exactly what we think it is no it was. I didn't want to go do. I didn't WANNA be in the porn business per se so I turned it into Google porn. We didn't have any content. But if you typed in you know dating challenged women in New York City maybe you would come up with some attention to this west treating you bad you know talking about the talking about so and then I did sell that. He's going to do some. Seo Magic after the show to like point those search terms to Jen's twitter. Oh that's right you. Can you do some hacking and find us are soulmates? Can you do that? Jr after this whole I gotta be honest after this whole conversation is this is going to be a dad for gotta find me my husband. I'll give you a trip for two to like coffee. How's that working out? Carrie I know I know you get the hard case. I see that right now. Well you you too might be hard. Cases are so fun because we're so fun. Yeah is it better dating in my thirties than my twenties. Because I think in your twenties did want like a hot normal girl who's like Kinda quiet and then in their thirties. They realize knoll. I WANNA be entertained till I die and now I'm doing a lot better when they're in their twenties. They don't want normal but maybe in their thirties they want. They want like the picture. Perfect like she's quiet and she's pretty but then they realized that's not fun for life. This is a actually. They want the wild one in their twenties The problem with women many women in their twenties not U2 is. They're kind of focused on that bad boy situation. That usually doesn't work out that well. This is getting complicated anyway. It's getting accurate. I mean not not for me your your theories definitely ring true with like everything that I've heard and read but you're using a sample size of one gary. It's got a lot more. He's got all our data correct. I don't know that it applies to me. But he's never ask. Does I think I spent a lot of time in my twenty S. Dating the very nice people that I was supposed to date and not the people that actually attracted into so now. I'm fucking assholes just getting anyway at all Jacob so do now what can you tell us? I have two questions. But what would you like to let the listeners? Know what you're up to now while so I've been really focusing last ten years in Trying to do some give back. I started to companies in renewable energy solar and in the last couple years have been focused on water a lot. You know really trying to give water to the under served than those without n. Daf I'm an elected official responsible. One of the people responsible for providing the two million people in Silicon Malley with water. Yeah that's smoker. It's wonderful silicon valley's really into coconut water your supplant coconut ball. My show against those people go to jail. Why is it a scam? Why why I mean. I love coconut water. Just because feel like if I'm drinking coconut water I can close my eyes and pretend I'm somewhere else suffer me. It's just like this is like a fantasy thing. It's not like I believe I'm healthier. I see why sometimes use on this all right. Well Jennifer about you but I have one question so you you've had a very long entrepreneurial career and I think like the way that you founded match and then exited from that and everything I think it's all very fascinating sued. Do you have any major lessons that you could share with our audience? So I'm a big believer in you know focus on let's say maslow's hierarchy of needs whether it be sacks food water self-esteem that's a good place to be and Denno cam now focus and then you know understanding the Problem Yourself. I think is pretty good. You know I see a lot of startups and ideas out there. Where people truly don't understand the problem. They're trying to solve another groups problem in. There is nothing like being in a field in sobbing problems. You deeply deeply understand yourself. It's been one of the keys to success. Yeah all right. Thank you gary. This has been delightful even though you guys so much. We should totally do intervention on. Don't you think so? Do you think we could do that to get a drink and discuss man? Yes I live. Got An ready okay. We'll keep girls up with men though. I like men okay. I'll try and Gary right problem. It's been great to talk to you later. Jen what I want to apologize to you. For what Allie for. What if you know then? We're good good. Appreciate appreciate what you guys did. Because I think it's a sign of love. I mean guarantees. No me but like I think you have to put them down. Yeah Yeah Yeah totally. That seemed like a real deep thing that we should dive into unhealthy. It was just too much fun. Ganging up on you and the deep dark secret is if it wasn't you it was going to be me exactly or usually it's mad as the thing usually it's he doesn't have a dating thing to tear apart but they now married since he was a fetus. It's illegal but listen sure. Your marriage is legal. If you looked into this leads me to my business idea guys. Are you ready? Oh God yes yeah. We're talking about freezing eggs. A dating service a dating service for frozen gates. Meaning you freeze your eggs features freezer sperm and than computers match up the DNA. So that you can show skins and you eliminate the dating and the husbands and the wives in the marriage you just you just connect the DNA dots and get the best baby. Boom it's got such do it well so it's Zinder I that's great for someone who literally just wants a baby right. I don't like great great. I'm sure there's a market for that. I can see the world heading in that direction. Much more interested in the life partner thing the rest of it. I don't super care about. I think Gary had a really interesting perspective on broadening your horizons. It's challenging to me but I like it can start to think about how you going to start to date women. I mean that's basically what he's getting. He thinks he date women. Maybe maybe it's time it's all the same bed times many times in many countries and cities and in fact. I think we're doing that again in several cities in October. We send a comforter. Yeah yeah totally shared. I know I have a question that I think I would like you to unpack both of you completely ready. Yeah we joke and we talk often. A Ha Ha. You're in your thirties. And you're single and dating so crazy. Haha. An an an I believe it an I get my question for you is you. Don't get it but thank you for trying. I don't understand the pain like I respect it and so my question for you is where two things fall apart meaning like you guys are clearly meeting lots of dates and prospects and lots of your meeting. Lots of people going on lots of dates and having various levels of relationship with various people. And then my question that I don't understand is like what happens. Where you or? The person are like This isn't working. Like what is it for you? Is it like this person is not the life partner or is it like? Whoa this person actually super knowing. Where do you get stuck and have to start over? That's the part I don't know much about. Yeah this is GonNa be so great for my mother to listen to but I think you should go. I seriously because I think my parents. They met at twenty two and they don't understand it like you're going on dates. How have you not met someone? Yeah freezing. I'm like what's wrong in and a lot of people do that but I do think that correct correct. It's a two levels. I think the first level is chemistry. So there's so many different kinds of chemistry and I find that the one that's most lacking with other people for me like when it would fall apart would be an emotional kind of intellectual chemistry even more than the physical. Obviously you're not going to continue to see somebody if you're not physically attracted to them but like if you can't get in their deep enough and feel really connected to them Then it's not going to progress but then beyond that if you have all of that all systems are go and both people are willing and they wanna be you know. We both want to be involved in some sort of relationship. I guess the next level is just like that every day shit like. Can you make your lives compatible enough? Are you willing to make them compatible enough with one another to keep something going and I think that just gets harder as you get older and people up more shit to deal with. I guess the perfect answer. That really makes a ton of because e- even feel it as just as a regular human being who has to interact with other humans as we all do. It's like I'm not looking for relationship but it's like when you meet a colleague or a friend or new renew acquaintances like you know fairly quickly of like. Oh this person's Super Fund and then you get them deeper and you're like We have nothing in common ever get and I understand that as just an interpersonal at an interpersonal level. That makes yeah. Yeah I mean I just think there is a ton of luck involved in everything in life you know like I certainly try to remind myself that there are people that have met the love of their lives but they don't like their job or actually they're getting divorced. Everybody is something I think. There's just like a lot of luck involved in life and I'm very lucky that I love my job. I let my city like there's so many things I love about my life but I think there is a lot of luck like if you happen to meet Lawrence O. Young which is like delightful. I'm sure it has. Its own struggles in many ways but You know I think I think if you hadn't met her in fucking high school it's possible that you would go on thousands of dates and just like not really feel that it was right until you then met her. But it's just like I don't know I mean most people you meet them and like you don't WanNa get naked with them or hang out with him every day like a you know what I mean. It's it's really finding a life. Partner is actually think about it a very tall order so I agree but that gets back to agenda of like when you're older you have more requirements or criteria MOCO. So when we when my wife and I met we were basically kids. So it's like date mate. Exactly what I always say is that we built our lives together and SORTA figured out what we wanted. Our lives to be together so it's not like we met as at thirty and it's like she had her life and I had my life and like oops were not compatible because we want different things we figure that out together and that is why we work now and hopefully work. You know going forward into the future. You could argue the reverse in the sense that not you but a lot of couples get married young. They say oh. We changed and we grew so differently. You know so it so a lot of people say like I am no this older woman who tells me late lasting late last You know so I don't know I always perceived it as like if you're thirty you know what you want if you want kids you know it if you don't want if you WanNa live here you WanNa live there you you you sort of know what you want out of life and that to me feels like shouldn't dating be easier because everyone kind of has more shit figured out but but. I think we're all looking for a needle in a haystack. And you could go searching in that in that barn helping jen with my farm analogies nine needle you could get lucky and find that needle right away and then the rest of us are fucking still picking over the wrong. Hey trying to find that goddamn needle. Gary's advice would be stop looking for a needle. Just look for a wider. I don't know is that good advice or bad. I don't know I don't know because sometimes I'm like I need to be more open and broaden my horizons and then I just end up on a lot of dates. I'm not interested and when pickier I might have fewer dates but the dates are actually better and then it's also like you're looking for the haystack. They're looking for a needle in Haystack. And I might not be looking for the same needle you know what I mean. So it's like Psalms I go I'll go up the guy and a great time but like he clearly has terrible judgment and he didn't have a great time so whether you're in a relationship or not I think it's like a really fine line that push and pull between knowing what you want being open to change and I guess the most successful people can like ride the space on that line like for. Yeah that's that's really hard because sometimes I find that I'm too stuck in what I want. I'm not open enough other times. I'm like wait to open and I invite somebody into my life. He's like clearly not the good person for me. So yeah but I I imagine the same interrelationship because you obviously if you know somebody from really a young age. You're going to change a lot with that person. So how do you facilitate that? It's hard work no matter what stage. You've summed it up really clearly about articulating. That line is everything and it makes a lot of sense. So that's really helpful. I mean not. That doesn't matter to me but like it's fascinating all right. Let us know you know where you're at with all this what you think. The secret sauce is to finding love or finding happiness in terms of relationships and other people when date Man Gen. Send us an email with the photo attachments. That email address is due g. One podcast G MAIL DOT COM. You can also tweet us at Allie Gold A. L. L. I. G. O. L. D. and at June. Bugger J. O. N. B. You are. You could also leave a voicemail number. Seven one expires. Four eight that number again. Three seven six tip. You don't want to date us. You can still give us your money. Patriots DOT COM slash to g one P and lastly. If you WANNA chat with US PLATONIC. We've got a discord jat room and that is discord. Doug slashed to g. One P. Elliot's thousand nine hundred sixties. Mid Atlantic accent. Is that what we're doing now? I just really wanted to take away their with the dating. So don't forget what we're looking for. This week is your bio over the photo attachment. You still don't want to date us or give us your money. You can send us the craziest dating story that you've had we want to hear it through all of those channels. I just mentioned but seriously if jen and I met are soulmates. The podcast think that'd be pretty funny. Oh what if it's each other? Okay down here. We're all good things. Everybody will see next week as ten of are in it and in five Max Silverman in New York City for this episode by a run accent assistance provided by the actual show is run on a number of summers working memory. Warning light on being Internet. Subscribe to the show. You'll never appears at the end. A Sign Universe peed on me. But it's okay.

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February 17: Terms of internment

As It Happens from CBC Radio

48:10 min | 1 year ago

February 17: Terms of internment

"Hi I'm Rosemarie. Barton Ella mean mood and we are. The hosts of party lines launched his podcast to help you make sense of the twenty nine thousand nine federal election. But here's the thing you liked us. You'll like to so much that we're coming back. We will drop a new episode every Thursday and we will talk about the biggest political stories of the week. It will be smart and fun party lines and get it wherever you get your podcast from because talking politics should be for every including you and me and all of us this is a CBC podcast. Hello I'm Carol off and I'm Ali. Hassan this is as it happens. The podcast edition tonight terms of internment a leaked document reveals disturbing new details about Muslims being held in Chinese detention camps including who they are and why they're government loft them away wrong baby on board to Newfoundland. Men are suing after discovering. They were switched at birth nearly sixty years ago and that's inspired our guests to finally tell her story of being given the wrong baby at the same hospital stringing him. Along when an American Violin teacher realizes her in China is stuck inside because of the corona virus outbreak. She steps up his skype lessons to keep him occupied real banal people in Ottawa. Say a new edition being built onto the shadow. Loria could ruin the view of the Rideau Canal. Now UNESCO is sending signals. It might cost the Ottawa waterway. Its status as a world heritage site. Green Eating and Edmund restaurant isn't as counting calories. It's also counting the carbon emissions that go into creating each meal and literary buzz an eleven year old girls. Passion for insects used to get bullied than it. Got Her book deal tonight. She joins Carol in Studio to explain. Why bugs don't bug her but insults sting as it happens. The Monday edition radio that loves to relax with a little might reading in China's Xinjiang province wearing a thick beard or visiting the wrong website. Could land you in an internment camp. That's what a new set of leaked documents appeared to show. They were leaked to the BBC and Associated Press and they offer a shocking window into the fate of Wieger. Muslims detained in China. The documents are essentially a database profiling. Three hundred and eleven people from one county Incheon. Jiang province is a spreadsheet that shows how often people pray how they dress and who they contact. Adrian's ends is a senior fellow in China studies at the victims of Communism Memorial Foundation. And he's been poring over these documents. We reached him in Saint. Paul Minnesota Mr says you know we have many sources telling us about these human rights abuses against leaguers in China. What does this latest leaked document? Tallus that we didn't know the slater's documents Gives US great detail about the fate of hundreds of individuals it's except reasons why they were put into internment camps and why data being kept out while might be released. The document clearly shows at what Beijing is doing is not in any way a fight against terror. It's a witch hunt against any slightest sign of religiosity. It's interning people for having grown a beard. Several years ago it's turning people fall having prayed before meals or going to a mosque and some of. It's not even having done anything. Just being untrustworthy. Yes the arbitrary. Nature of the detentions is notable. The government is distrusting these ethnic groups and in order to do something about them to bring them on the long-term control it has introduced. General categories of suspicion such asked the Labor untrustworthy person. Ones are an linked to anything abroad violating birth control policies. And just the one child policy if people fall into these categories of this is the reasons for taking them away. What what's happening to them? By virtue of these these accusations in the camps they learned that they have to stay away from even the slightest form of religion. People who have been allowed by the government to two of these camps and to to speak detainees found out that they'd and said I'm no longer Muslim. I no longer believe in Islam. I no longer pray. Basically forced to abstain from even the slightest trace of even superficial Religiosity and at what point do any of these people get released from these camps from this internment people have to be in reeducation camps for at least one year no matter what after one year people can be released? If their performance is up to par they have to have confessed. And repented does a lot of confession and repentance language in these verdicts but not only dad government very closely monitors their families if the family continues to exhibit a quote unquote dense atmosphere. Or if they don't follow local regulations such as attending mandatory flag-raising ceremony every morning and the people that have to remain reeducation camps. How difficult is it to actually meet these demands? That is to get out when so many of the cases are people who it's not them it's family members. It's it's a female member of the family. Were avail once. How can you demand it? Summon reformed for things that did not even doing people. That are heavily intimidated. There have been starved. Some of them have been tortured. They have been through a terrible experiences. And I never WANNA go back. This must be a tremendous risk. That people are taking to get these documents into the hands of the foreign media. What what do you know about it? The greatest risk would have been taken by the person who leaked them out of Xinjiang. It is almost certainly would have to have been a government official possibly a weaker government officials because one hunt Chinese would not be likely to risk but then the whistleblowers abroad who received a document and pasta it onto the media also received threats Ozzy Abdulah hip in Holland. Who gave me and to many media outlets document. She had received death threats anonymously. What do you think motivates them to take that risk? What are they seeing or learning? That makes them willing to do that. The wego seeing the destruction of their own people in front of day is and they just cannot bear it. I mean this is cultural genocide on an unprecedented scale. It's basically the largest incarceration of an ethnic religious minority. Since the Holocaust people absolutely desperate you cannot talk to any excess weaker with does not have a large number of family members in one of these camps coup is desperate to find out anything about the loved ones. It's not like the world doesn't know that this is happening to these hundreds of thousands of workers. How do you think the international community should be responding to this kind of information that keeps coming out about the the international community and particularly the Muslim nations should unanimously rise up and make strong statements and let the strong statements be followed up with action be at resolutions at the United Nations? Human Rights Council targeted economic sanctions sanctions on bilateral coach would exchange. How are you GONNA do? Kutcher exchange with China China's interning millions of his ethnic minorities. Do you think to some extent the the issue of the Corona viruses overshadowing the plight of weaker Muslims in China. Yes no it has captured the news. It has put China in the spotlight but it also highlights the risk that the virus poses to the region of Xinjiang. Many people are in internment camps with terrible conditions. Dangerous did rise of that but also seeing some of the practices that China has pioneered the ancient young among the weeks of domestic security of facial recognition. Lot of these mechanisms are now being used in eastern China in Beijing Wuhan and Shanghai in order to fight the war on the virus in order to lockdown communities there so in some sense the Han Chinese majority is now in a small degree experiencing some of the draconic measures that are commonplace in this sense. We'll leave it there and I appreciate speaking with you tonight. Thank you thank you. Bye-bye Adrian sense is a senior fellow in China studies at the victims of Communism Memorial Foundation and we reached him in Saint Paul Minnesota for the past six months. Anthea CRESTON has made a weekly skype call from Oregon to a teenager in Chengdu China. Miss Creston is a world renowned violinist and fourteen year old. Kevin Tang is pupil but since the corona virus has swept through China Kevin and millions of others in the country are essentially under lockdown with a student who suddenly had a lot of time on his mistrust and decided to put him to work upping their lessons from weekly. Tha Daily and offering the lessons free of charge. Here is Kevin Performing for his teacher after long hours of practice and the Creston has been helping him with that piece. We reached her in. Corvallis Oregon. Anthea what piece of Music. Are We hearing your student? Kevin play in that clip. That's a law symphony. Spaniel the beginning of the second page of the first movement. It's where it can of emerges from anger into kind of a beautiful love story. You're already giving Kevin Weekly lessons on skype. How did you learn that? Perhaps Kevin Situation was had altered. Well he didn't mention anything to me but when I was giving him his lesson I think was February. Second I noticed some things were just a little bit different. He escapes me from his living room. Or somehow the Family Room. It's usually extremely tidy but it had There was a little bit messy. Some things were a little bit funny. He was also wearing his winter coat and rubbing his hands a lot. His hair looks slightly less teenager. Funky he kind of has A. He has a great attitude. Great teenager attitude. So he's physically looked a little strange and also he's normally extremely well prepared. I think these extra lessons are a big big part of their family. It's a financial commitment for them to have an extra have a weekly lesson with an American teacher on top of their Chinese professor so usually his extremely well prepared and he seemed lethargic. He wasn't making jokes. He wasn't interacting and From all those things combined eight thought something was quite different with him now. Did you figure it out immediately that he might be part of the lockdown part of the quarantine that so many people in China were going through? It did occur to me right away although I had been doing research online for Chengdu which is a good thousand kilometers away from Wuhan. I hadn't found anything. Nothing showing up on the Guardian or New York Times and when I have been searching for it I couldn't find any mention of Chengdu and so I thought everything was okay. I thought he was far enough away but I asked him if he was okay. You said he was cold and then I said Howard lessons going. He said I'm not having lessons. I'm not at school I said. Are you able to play with your friends in the courtyard says no? We can't go outside and I said. Do you have enough to eat any said well when we run out of food someone has to go out there. The reference of him wearing a coat. What we have learned is that people have an idea that the virus say the corona virus might travels through the pipes of their buildings so they're shutting off their heat and so well you there you were. You know thousands of miles away. What did you? What did you figure could do to help him? The first thing I try to do is maintain a professional relationship with him. I don't WanNa put him in any kind of dangerous. I didn't. I'd never set the word virus. I we never talk about the government. We never talk about those kinds of things. It's hard to tell what is safe and what's not safe there so extra careful that you're right from everything we've heard you have to be really careful because he can't really say much county. No I mean I don't know what they can see and they can't see or hear so. I'm always super careful with that. So I felt like I had enough information from him and then after doing more research online. I still didn't find any information and I talked to my husband. I was really really worried and I said I don't think he's doing well. Then I said what happens if I propose to him his dad that you know while he's inside that we have a special kind of project if I can give him a specific assignment every day very difficult technical exercise and then also a new page of this concerto so I thought this concerto is the perfect thing I usually would take a fourteen year old maybe a year to learn this concerto and I said to him. Why don't we learn it in twenty days and so did did it work? Did your idea of giving daily lessons free of charge. Get him out of his lethargy well it took him in his dad a day to decide to do it. I'm sure that they as I don't want to add stress to his life so I'm sure they had to think about that and I said that we could do it in a way. That stress-free that it's like a fun project and I noticed. After three or four days he started like emojis started to appear again in our chat that he was smiling still wearing his coat and he jumps up and down all but I think he's pretty cold there but that you can even hear from that recording. His passion level is is great and interestingly enough in the last three or four days I think his father is happier. I mean I can imagine the stress that his parents are under. His mother works for a hospital for supply so she's apparently going all around. Do desperately looking for masks and medical safety equipment for the the hospital people so it's a stress for them to have her go out and do that and also for her to come back. I mean it's A. It's a double edged sword. I understand that there are others you. There's a connection with some other music students in China who you are helping to connect with teachers in the United States might be able to help. Yes yes actually. There is a New York Times article and since that time a bunch of my friends and former teachers who are all professors wonderful universities in from Berlin to Brazil and throughout the states and far flung places have contacted me and said they'd be happy to help out as well and so I've been able to pair some people up actually friends of Kevin's because right now I can't get through to any of the music schools when I write to them things bounce back so just through. Kevin specifically in through his network of friends. I am getting some videos from those people date for safe to speak some English although I have a bunch of friends who speak Chinese so I'm able to also put people together who don't have English language so but I'm just trying to put some really simple parameters of like the the amount of work and how it has to be optimistic as more of like a practice buddy or someone you would meet at the gym and so my sister has a student Jason. My husband has a student and I'm slowly pairing people up. I would love to make it more broad but I just have no access to to the schools or anything. Well good work on your part. And that's great that some kids will be able to have a connection with the outside and music makes a difference doesn't it I think it does. Thanks for telling the story. Thank you so much. Have a great day you too. And the CRESTON is a violinist based in Corvallis Oregon not is where we reached her Sofia. Spencer just turned eleven and she's already got a published book under her belt. The bug girl. A true story is well. Just that is the true story of Sofia's love of all things creepy crawly and how it has affected her short life in big and sometimes difficult ways. Sophia wrote the book with Margaret Margaret McNamara. And it came out last week today. She and her mom Nicole. Spencer joined Caroline Studio to talk about the buzz. It's generating severe welcome to the as it happens studio. Thank you and your Mom Nico. Welcome as well. Thank you for having us. Thank you both coming in Okay severe have to start with the million dollar question. Why do you love bugs? So much Well I get asked that a lot and I think it's mainly because they have their own ecosystem like they've made their own world. There are many universe but I mean Nobo- I know you you love bugs and you. The rule is in your house. You're not allowed to kill bugs but I would but bugs that sting and bite Now we still don't kill them. We have a net and will catch them and I'll grab them. Just let them outside. I WanNa ask you need also having a house with a no kill bugs rule. What's at like Detroit Manage It's not too bad. There's only been a few times where I've covered the bug with the net for her to take the next day and the next morning when we wake up. The bug is gone But I'm not going to discourage her from you know heard. The rule is no killing bucks. They're important so I manage it. It's okay this story of the bug girl and your story. Sufi begins with the first time you fell in love with an insect. Can you tell us that story Well when I was two and a half I went to a Butterfly Conservatory Niagara Falls which is a zoo. That's just for butterflies on as soon as I walked in there blue butterfly pushed on my shoulder and it was just crying all over my face and it didn't leave the entire time I was layer was just on me and when I left 'cause YOU CAN'T TAKE. Comb exotic butterflies. The guard had to Take it off of me because again. You can't take home exotic butterflies so when you when did you realize your your daughter had a really special connection with insects after we left the conservatory. She asked if she could get bug net so she tried to catch some bucks. So it pretty much spiraled after that where I was buying containers Annette and magnifying glasses. In my life revolved around Google for a really long time because If she found a bug outside she'd worn a know about the bug. Severe when you start going to kindergarten you at first you had classmates who that you could share your at your level bugs with. How did they respond in school? Well when I was in kindergarten they they loved it like save founded bug. They could be like Sophia. What spock and I would ag- usually no it was And they responded really well and I still know some of the kids from kindergarten. And they're like. I can't believe children did that. Like it's cool that you're both folk you would you referring to is what happened when you switched schools. I think in grade one and you had a very different experience. What happened with the kids there? Well the kids at my newer school They didn't like the fact that I was different so they would tease me. They would believe me if I would bring a bug in from home they would like knock off my shoulder and kill it so I felt just really upset really sad and you know beat down and so at one point you decided that you just had to give up a bit on the Bug. Your bug Interest right is things up what happened. What did you do? Um Y started to pack up all my bucks for my bug nats. I let all the bugs I were at home. I left him go. I just gave out because you know I wind friends if I could have friends but not how do my passion than I was ready to give that up and did that help. Did the did the kids. They say oh they stop bullying. You become friends with you No not really. They knew still liked bugs. They just they knew that I liked bugs but they knew I was just faking. So they still didn't like me Nicole for you for being a mom and to see the effect this had on her in school. What what affected that have on you? When you see your child. Side and thinking will stop leaking. Something maybe L. have friends. It's heartbreaking to see your kid go through something like that and then you get really angry and I just was upset. I didn't WANNA see her. Give something that she had loved for so long and was so excited about so. You had an idea for what to do what did you. What did you think might work I thought if I thought outside the box and wrote a letter to the site of Kindo we could maybe get a pen pal for her and it went viral and we had an amazing outpouring of support from across the world and it was just incredible to see so many people reach were surveyed. Did you think when your mom wrote the letter to the entomologist the society? Did you think that the you'd get much responded? Where did you think yeah mom that might work or did you? Were you Kinda doubtful about that She didn't telling she's doing it. She didn't want to get my hopes up. And then nothing was respondent. So yeah she didn't tell me and then wanted to see happen. I'm Welsh told me that she Asked them you know it wouldn't viral and that there's so so many people that liked bugs in that cat and that told me I should keep doing what I love from all around the world right. This was women from the that. We're studying bugs in the Amazon writing emails to us in telling her that you know. They had had similar experiences growing up that they had been bullied for their love of insects and they didn't let it stop them so affected that having. What did you tell you the other kids at school? Did they know that you were becoming a kind of star Well I when this happened. I was in a different school. I changed schools. I again after a grade. One and The kids there are a lot nicer. Day encouraged me a lot a lot better. And then yeah we started took you make. The Buck became the bug girl. A true story which is is a beautiful book. What do you think of it when you when you saw the whole book put together like that when I first read it? I thought it was just an amazing book. I thought it was just so cool. It really does express like this story really really well so I tested your book on the weekend with my granddaughters and they love your book and but they had some questions for you. They wanted to know my granddaughter. Chloe WHO's almost eight. She wanted to know what feelings you had when you first had that butterfly. Land on you Their first reaction I had was like this is really cool. Like it's not leaving. It's on me. It's not leaving me and I thought it was really really cool and I was very surprised that the fact that as the only one the whole conservatory stain on and then Clara. Who is almost six wants to know but one fact you have on the book you said that there are bugs in Antarctica. I yeah that's impossible. It's so cold there nope okay. I'll tell Clara that's the case and they both had one last question for you. What do you WanNa be when you grow up? I'm well I'd like to be in Tamala just I'd like to grow up to study bugs and different environments. So congratulations on your beautiful book. Thank you and you call. Thank you so much for bringing Sophia into talk to us. Thank you so much for having us. It was a pleasure. Sophia Spencer Co wrote the bug girl with Margaret McNamara. It's illustrated by the French DUAL CASCO IT and published by Penguin Random House. Sophia joined Carol in our Toronto Studio with her. Mom Nicole Spencer and she's right by the way about that Antarctic bug. We looked it up. It's a message. Hi I'm Gary Barden elamine Abdel Mahmoud and we are the hosts of party lines. We launched podcast to help you make sense of the twenty nine thousand nine federal election. But here's the thing you liked us. You liked so much that we're coming back. We will drop a new episode every Thursday and we will talk about the biggest political stories of the week. It will be smart and fun party lines and get it wherever you get your podcast from because talking politics should be forever including you and me and all of us. Clarence hines and Craig. Avery were switched at birth in the nineteen sixties at a small hospital income by chance. Newfoundland and Labrador. The two men are now in their mid fifties. They've never met their birth parents now. They're suing the regional health authority. Their story is shocking but it may not be the only mix up that happened at the hospital's maternity ward that year. A Newfoundland woman is now speaking out about what happened to her. We reached Muriel. Stringer in Hodge's cove Newfoundland Mariel. I know you're nineteen years old back in nineteen sixty two when you gave birth to your son at Wallin cottage hospital. How many days old was he when you got to take them home three days old but in the car when I looked at me looked a bit different but mom said Oh no that's probably the diplomacy is Suet what now? You're in the car going home from come by chance. Heading back to Hodge's cove. Is that right? And so what differences were there that made you wonder if this was really? Your little boy can't well. He is knows different canceled on. I got a biggish knows but I didn't ask myself that just in the hostile and gave them to mom now and you wouldn't think that something would go wrong there. You'd think that you had your baby right. I didn't think it could happen. What happened when you got home where we sat on? I'm still Admin AMS and I was looking at her and she said No. He's not your baby. How did your mom no? It wasn't your baby because his name was on the bracelet he had on his arm. What was the name the bracelet baby boy Adams? Not your baby boy can't was it. No how did you react when you saw that scare for and surprised but didn't know what we were going to do. Everything was going through and so I went to the post office and phoned up and said look we got around baby. She said bring the baby up here but I think she said was the mother. No our own own baby but then I said at the hospital is so anyway up. They went announced here. I guess the word got around in the hostile because mother was on the steps and said she was there waiting on the steps. The mother Baby Adam is so she knew her baby was missing. Yes she must have been for going to bring him back or cut you know where was baby. Kent. It was still in the hospital. What happened was that they put the babies in the wrong cribs and they just looked at the name that was unequivocal daddy and they adams baby was only had just been born. He wasn't more than a day. Is that right? That's right. You're on my gosh. The mother must have been frantic. See it we've been worried too because on the infant baby take them on a long bumpy overall like that could been in action or anything right. This is going through her mind. Okay so then. They straightened it out. Yes got up to the hospital and changed babies and came home at Lea- ever editor. Okay happily what were you angry at them for? What had happened? We were so the bit that we're nurse. Didn't she know her own baby? Be Live to angriest thing that was said between any of the straight didn't take the wrong baby. You're given the wrong baby that's right. Yeah now this is way back in nineteen sixty two but this summer there. The story came out of these two. Men Clarence hines Craig. Avery were born in the same hospital and realized just by chance. Come by chance as well named. Isn't it that they? They had been switched at birth in the same year. We'll see we found at the time back but they didn't find out about this a couple of years ago. It was a really disgusting story when came out because these two men that were really sad not to. They had good lives but they had never got to know their parents. It's true that's true. Yeah this that's the worst. That was a really bad mistake. That was well. Now what did you think when you heard their story knowing what had happened to you in the same year with only a few months difference? Well pity them like everything and glad that we got our baby. You know it turned right for us. Is this raise questions for you about what might have been going on at that. Hospital back in nineteen sixty two. When when your baby kit was born? My daughter wouldn't share it. Vote this the other day. She spun that got mad about a semi. There was something going on back then then I wonder if the wolves you know but that back way back then I was too busy having family and babies out around meal so late that didn't come the Mo and you know how many more did you have. After Kent led six. Children can sick former babies after Kent now. Did you start to wonder though when you're talking to your daughter about that? Maybe some other there other instances of the same thing yes I did and the and the air there was somebody else around here. I happen to to another story of somebody else who had gave birth in the come by chance hospital. Who got a switch? It's okay well. That sounds serious did I can't remember. They were the two men clearance signs and Craig. Avery are suing the health authority for what happened now that they've found out but the health authority says it's not for what happened that hospital because that's doesn't exist anymore. It's all part of a new a new system. What would what would you want them to know about what it was like for you before you got your baby back. I can understand how they feel that it was. It only happened to me few hours so they must have been really really mad and couldn't do anything about both parents were deceased and and they didn't know anything about it. Well at least can't got back to the right family then at least you go baby back. Oh yes. There's no no problem. No because he looks just like his father Mary. I really appreciate speaking with you. Thank you thank you take care. Memorial stringer was a young mother in one thousand nine hundred two and she says she was given the wrong baby by wall wooden cottage hospital in come by chance Newfoundland. We reached Miss Stringer in Hodge's cove Newfoundland earlier we told you about. Clarence hines and Craig Avery. Two men who were switched at birth in the nineteen sixties at the same hospital. The two men never got to meet their birth parents now. They are suing the provincial government for negligence. Last month Mr Avery spoke with. Cbc's the current about what happened fifty years ago and how that makes up his life upside down. Well when you find out that You have siblings that you grew up with and then all of a sudden you've got siblings. That's in another family. And now you find that you got different parents and then you find it in your parents that you should have gone up at passed on and you never got to meet them. And you didn't grow up all your siblings. It was crazy. It was heartbreaking heart. Ready about how hard is that knowing. I mean both both sets of parents died before any of this was discovered. How hard is that for you Craig? Knowing that that you didn't get to talk to the people who are truly your birth mother father before before they passed well when I went to the grave so he and I stood in front of their headstones. Look at stones knowing as close as they do you ever. GonNa get it. It tore me and pizzas. And it's still really hard for you now it'll be our at perver- that was Craig Avery. Speaking with the current host Matt Galloway in January mystery. Clarence hines were switched at birth fifty eight years ago income by chance Newfoundland when police raided the Australian public broadcasters newsroom in Sydney last year some journalists called it media intimidation today a federal court in that country dismissed. Abc's intrusion complaint and said the raid was legal police raided the ABC offices after journalists published a series of articles called the Afghan files. They were based on classified military documents. David MacBride leak those documents to ABC. He's a former military lawyer with the Australian Armed Forces and here. He is speaking to Carol in June. Mister McBride did you ever think you'd see a day when the Australian Federal Police would raid? Australia's public broadcaster. Times are changing side. What did they see what the police take from ABC? Well that's a good question. It was an unusual very modern kind of warrant. Where did they had the rights access computers and delete things on the cell? I guess that says something interesting in that they weren't trying to gather evidence for a court case rob. They were trying to leach things which they didn't want people to read. They had the right to do that. And I think that was probably the real purpose was not deceased anything but to a rice things not what they did with the hundreds of documents that you provided was they made a series called the Afghan files which has some quite shocking allegations. Can you tell us what has been reported at this point? The key things they reported on was to say sometime in Afghanistan one special forces patrols in the mountains head shot a shepherd boy by the stikes thinking he was Taliban and they didn't reported the Afghan falls were mainly reports of investigated by independent Australian investigators who by lodge said. This is an unfortunate incident. However there's no cause for criminal charges. What either late was the biggest story was the fact that the leadership the generals and I believe also. The politicians had performed some illegal operations and they tried to come about. That's the purpose of these lightest rides. The police have realized that there is much more to the Afghan falls was first revealed. That was David McBride. A former military lawyer with the Australian Armed Forces on as it happens in June. He's facing criminal charges for leaking documents about the Australian military's rule in Afghanistan. He'll appear in court next week As its name suggests the high level diner in Edmonton is no greasy spoon. When you sit down. Tuck into their comfort food. You'll know just how much gas you'll be producing greenhouse gas that is because the carbon footprint of options on the menu has been calculated and is now clearly displayed alongside each item. Debbie Parker is the CO owner of the high level diner. That is where we reached her. Debbie if I open the menu at your restaurant what would I see in terms of carbon footprint information? So there's Symbols on the menu that represents a low level carbon footprint a medium or a high level. And so what would be something to say? If I was really hungry would have a meal. That'd be a low carbon footprint We have a tight coconut curry. And it's on the lower level and As well we have a pad Thai And mostly the Vegan. Vegetarian dishes are going to be the lowest carbon footprint. And what have I didn't care Then we have a short ribs. We have a Guinness Cottage Pie We have a prime rib steak and chicken and fish and that kind of thing as well. A new tell people with the carbon footprint is for each of those items on your menu. There is an estimated value beside the majority you of the items and then on the Northern Climate Stewardship and Sustainability Society website. There is Listening with each of the items listed. How did you calculate how much carbon footprint of your meals We gave the information to the NC SS and they basically took all of the values from the sourcing the the recipe size the portions Where the product was coming from and And they compiled all of that data to come up with the estimate for each new item and that's the northern climate stewardship and Sustainability Society. That is correct. Okay so why did you want to do this? we've noticed an increasing number of people that are concerned about their their own carbon emissions and carbon footprint and so when we were approached by northern climate they had said there was a a restaurant in. Sweden. That had done this and we thought that it would be interesting to try this pilot project with them and see what kind of response we would get. And what kind of response have you had Our customer base. We've had a very positive response. People are interested They WanNa know what items they can eat what they can't eat some and that sort of thing and some people are not pleased about it. Unfortunately I think they feel that we're we're against maybe the The beef and the meat industry's the dairy and all of that kind of thing. But it's definitely not that we're trying to offer our customers options and We've been supporting local Alberta beef and dairy producers for almost forty years so this is just a matter of offering consumers options but I mean you are in cattle country well in Alberta generally but then also oil and gas country that it's been resistance to this idea of what's the carbon impact So are you gonNA lose customers because you're doing this? I don't think we'll lose customers over this. I think that most people realize it is a pilot project and the whole idea is to get people talking. we've spoke even with With one of our local farmers who was talking about The industry itself and how agriculture is also looking at different ways that they can lower the carbon footprint. I think in Europe maybe in the Netherlands. They've been feeding beef activated a charcoal and that has had a positive impact on reducing their carbon footprint. And you know I think that it helps with the conversation and and get people talking and and that's a positive thing. Do you have anybody who comes in. And they've decided not to have the prime rib or not to have the the pork ribs. Because what you said about the carbon footprint Not that we've been able to calculate so far it's only been A week and a half. Now since we've had the menu out and so do you think though also there might be a bit of virtue signaling when you when people want to see what's coming out of the kitchen for your table your might fit okay. Maybe I should have the spinach by perhaps perhaps but I think in general it just gives people the option similar to nutrition facts on a label. That if you're concerned about your sodium intake or sugar intake then that would be something that that you're going to pay close attention to but I know even myself included when I go out to a restaurant you know I I want to indulge in. That's the time that you may want to just go ahead and order the steak and there's nothing wrong with that certainly We're just putting it out there and starting the conversation and seeing what happens. Will your glass of wine might have a bigger carbon footprint than your stake truly depending on how many air miles points that has also people. I presume drive to your restaurant do they do? They get a reduced carbon footprint. If they walked well we do give a ten percent discount for people that ride their bikes again. The the more and parking is definitely an issue. So you know the more that people walk the more that people are working towards that. I think the better for everybody so this is a pilot project. How long you keep it up before you evaluate whether it's a good idea We'll be doing a review in six months to take a look and And see where we'll go from there. All right we'll leave it there. I'm sure we'll hear some from our listeners. In reaction to this Debbie. It's to talk to You. Thank you thank you. Bye Bye bye. Debbie Parker is the CO owner of the high level diner and Edmonton. We reached her at the restaurant. When you own a gorgeous heritage property in a picturesque setting you value your view scape you. Don't call it a view escape. Would you still don't want some developer building some eyesore nearby? And completely wrecking it. This is why UNESCO is upset about the Rideau canal in Ottawa which it refers to as the best preserved example of a slack water canal in North America the UN organizations still views the canals a world heritage site with outstanding universal value. But it takes a dim view of what's happening to what it calls the view scape because of the Chateau Loria as you've undoubtedly heard the owners of the historic hotel next to parliament. Hill are putting an addition on it. An addition that has been described as a post modernist mess an act of architectural violence and like a travelodge rear ended a hotel. There's been a huge fewer about it in Ottawa with public complaints legal challenges and General Disgust and apparently UNESCO shares that discussed in a recent letter. It asked Canada to put put the construction on hold until the potential damage to the view. Scape can be reviewed. Unesco isn't saying the Rideau Canal doesn't still have outstanding outstanding universal value. It's just saying it's an awful Nice slack water canal and it would be a shame if something happened to its World Heritage Site Status and if something does happen that addition to the shadow laureate will be the view scapegoat. You've been listening to the as it happens podcast. Our show can be heard Monday to Friday on Radio. One and on Sirius. Xm following the world at six. You can also listen to the whole show on the CBC listen APP. Download it for free from the APP store or from Google play. Thanks for listening. I'm Carol off. I'm Ali Hassan for more. Cbc podcasts Goto CBC DOT CA slash podcasts.

China Craig Avery Nicole Spencer Carol Newfoundland Clarence hines Ottawa Kevin Ali Hassan Sophia Spencer Co Hodge Oregon Adrian UNESCO Cbc New York Times Debbie Parker Rideau Canal
July 15: Low bar

As It Happens from CBC Radio

50:05 min | 10 months ago

July 15: Low bar

"I'm Keith. MacArthur unlocking bryson's brain is a podcast about my son I am. The rare disease that keeps him from walking or talking Bryson's perfect. His life is really hard, and our families search for a cure. Oh my Gosh! Maybe science is ready for this. It's part memoir part medical mystery. We can do just about anything modifying DNA Heart in my throat cure. His controversial unlocking braces brain. Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. This is a CBC podcast. Hello I'm Nico off and I'm Ali Hassan. This is as it happens the podcast edition. Tonight Low bar young people in Montreal are turning up for Cova nineteen tests by the hundreds after the city told all bargo hours to get swabbed. The influx though has testing facilities overwhelmed a nightmare on repeat. We reach a former federal day school survivor, who says the settlement process is broken and worse. It's adding to his trauma. Cold Comfort after Washington vows to change the name of its football team. Pressure is on once again for Edmonton to do the same. Our guest says it should not have taken this long for Canada to see. Are Not Mascots. Molecular Virologist flossie Wong Stall. She was a pioneer. Of HIV. AIDS research colleague WHO's hard at work on a vaccine. Today tells us he's still drawing on lessons learned from her work chimp off the old block. It's been sixty years since Jane Goodall I walked into a forest in Tanzania to creatures that would change her life. You'll hear the time. She made chimpanzee sounds for the CBC and a real whopper Burger. King claims it has produced a newer lower emission burger from cows who release less climate-damaging methane. An expert in the field tells us he suspects. It's all a bunch of hot air as it happens. The Wednesday edition radio that has to admit we're having a gas. Quebec's Kobe nine hundred numbers are going the wrong way. More than one hundred new infections are cropping up per day. The province is falling well short of its stated testing goals, and among those who are getting tested positive tests are up. Dr David Kaiser is a physician with the public. Health Authority for the island of Montreal. Before. The weekend we were at a rate of about. One percent, which means one positive test out of every hundred that is done and what we saw from tests that are coming in over the last few days is a rate at three percent, so that's three times as many positive tests. Per hundred tests that are done and including the large increase in the actual number of tests that tells us is there really is something there. That is worth continuing. To deal with that? There are cases that wouldn't necessarily have been detected and that bringing young people out to get tested is going to help us with the public health response. There is some good news. Young people are listening to the city's call for bar goers in particular to get tested since the weekend thousands of head swap stuck in their noses, but testing facilities in the Montreal area. In lineups are very very long Kevin O'CONNELL is the general manager at Annie's pub in Bellevue on the city's West Island. Last week, the pub shut down after a staff member tested positive for covid nineteen today they reopened. We reached Mister O'CONNELL in Montreal. Mister O'CONNELL. Tell me about the decision to shut down any last week. so yeah last week, one of. Her staff members who is in administration, who normally doesn't deal with customers or staff was pitching in on the weekend to help us out because we were extremely busy, and unfortunately he came down with some symptoms, so he went immediately to get tested, and when results came back as positive, we decided to shut down the restaurant so that we can get everybody tested. Because unfortunately, he had come into contact with people in the restaurant. Part of an extended amount, but he contact with people in restaurants, so we closed down sent everyone over testing, and it took four days or so to get everyone's results back, but fortunately everybody on staff came back negative so once. That was the case we decided to reopen today. That's a relief I bet to get. All of those tests smack negative huge release. The four days were hard. It was a voluntary shutdown because we just couldn't. We can guarantee a safe environment for our staff or for the community or the Patriots. So out of an abundance of. Caution. We as I said, we'd closed down, but once we got the results back. There was a sense of relief for sure, and we opened back up. However, we changed the of the the procedures now, so we eliminated the bar. We have a bar area, but we've. We're not allowing people to sit at the bar anymore and we are no longer allowing walk up service, so anybody in the restaurant will have to remain at. At their table for service, and we're required to wear masks inside the establishment now so like a lot of places. I bet the the patio space. The outdoor space is a big part of your business, but it's interesting. What you what you said just at the start of our chat about how busy it was the day that person who normally works at administration came into contact with everyone. People are still coming out. Yeah it was July first weekend was that Friday Saturday and Sunday we had an extreme amount of business it was it was encouraging in one sense. But obviously, something happened. We don't know I. Don't know if my staff member was infected here or elsewhere, and and maybe brought it to the work, but. With it, not passing to anyone, we feel like you know. The security measures. We have in place were effective. So, but you're right. There were a lot of people out that weekend and There was a lot of people are not. Paying attention to the social distancing, so that's why we've implemented. The rules of Table Service only know Galeano walking around. We wanted to maintain the. The secure feeling for everybody, so it's we're going to be pretty much doing our business on the terrorist known. What was your experience getting tested like? well, I went to a walking, because I wanted to get done as fast as possible. The general manager here so I was hoping to get my results as quick as possible. Unfortunately, the walk in clinic I went to at six hundred people show up that day. And I was two hundred in line, so it took me four hours for the test, and in three and a half days for the results, so three and a half days were tough. I was at home quarantined in my bedroom. 'cause I have a family so I couldn't leave my bedroom for three and a half days until I got the results, but fortunately they came back negative. That's a relief. It was a huge relief. What's your reaction to all of the LINEUPS? Not just the one that you experienced since the city started encouraging all of these bargo whereas to get tested. I wish they had maybe foreseen that there was gonna be a big surge in demand, and maybe he had. The testing centers prepared for the volume. But apart from that I think it was a good idea to get the message out. Because in the beginning we were str- like we put the message on our facebook that you know there was a positive test, and that's why we were closing. We wanted to message out there and then people are asking us, are we? You know they're going to be an announcement to the public as well as on our hands into the government. When it had made it that announcement, so I was relieved that they made the announcement, since it took the pressure off of us and told everyone to go get tested, and the lineups show that people were concerned to find out if they were. Infected or not, so I think that's a good thing. Just wish there was more. Looking at the volume of people who've tested, so our colleague said CBC. Montreal, McGill Microbiology and immunology. Chair Dr Don Shepherd about this how he felt about bars opening up in Quebec I. WanNa play you a little bit of what he said. You know what happens when you open bars, and you have one case of someone in a bar you have spread and people should understand. This is very likely to happen. Then asked them. Is this really the best way for them to be acting at this point and it worth the risk. I actually think we're reaping a little bit. What we so when it comes to opening the bars in particular. What do you say to his concerns? I, he's you know he's got a valid point there for sure. We have. Eliminated bar service in essence because like I agree with him in that sense that the people congregating around bars is not very. Conducive to. Stifling the break, so we're operating his restaurant, so we're not the operator of the party more because we don't think that we can provide a safe environment for patrons. And you're coming into contact with so many people. You've talked about telling customers. They have to wear masks when they come. What's the response been because we've certainly heard and seen in places across the United States, for example, even here in Canada that some people are averse to taking that measure. So so far today we since eleven o'clock a everybody's been. Told that they will be required to wear a mask. If they come insight, do use our facilities and one hundred people have either had their own mask or willingly taken one from us, and not giving us any kind of addity. Oh I think that bodes well. There's the mandatory masks requirement being place as of Saturday province-wide goal hopefully that sort of. People ready for for it but I haven't encountered any resistance today. If there is another positive case, and we certainly hope there is not of covid nineteen at any pub. What your plan to do the same thing? Would if it happens again. I went to ensure that everybody would be tested and but we would have to reexamine this situation going forward after that if if it happened on for a second time. Does that mean that we can't provide a safe environment? So you know myself and the The rest of the management and ownership would would have to sit down and have a hard heart discussion about future. Stroke, on, I hope it is all things considered a good season for you and your staff. Thanks so much for your time. My pleasure have a nice day. Take Care bye-bye. Kevin O'CONNELL is the general manager of Annie's pub in Montreal, and that's where we reached him. They haven't been able to get on the field, but the Edmonton Eskimos defense is still keeping busy. For years, the Canadian football team has been under pressure to change its name amid accusations that it is racist, an outdated, but now that scrutiny may be at a tipping point with the team sponsors weighing in and the promises by another football team. WASHINGTON'S NFL team to change its name and logo not to know bed is the president of Canada's national. ORGANIZATION INUIT TAP Kinda. Tommy. We reached him in Ottawa. Mr Obama earlier this week Washington, retired, it's NFL teams, name and logo. How closely do you think that was being watched in Edmonton? I would hope there would be a clear sense of connection between the forces. The made Washington retire as Racist Editions Monitor. With the continued use of the. Name here in Canada. When you do here at Minton's team name or see that logo? How does it affect you personally? It's been used against the as an ethics splur- so. There's. A whole host of things that brings up in me about the treatments that I've had as. An indigenous person. And it also is a reminder that even in twenty twenty. This country Canada is okay. With its continued use. And that speaks to me about how far we need to go on the conciliation and I can't wait until I don't have to see that name. Not Word appear across media in this country visited last place where that term used on a day-to-day basis, and only because you know, we made that happen. Talking about it in a way as you say, helps, get to this point. That are you tired of frustrated by having to keep talking about it? It's. Really difficult for me to see the ongoing online abuse. That has been targeted against me and it goes new because of this conversation. I'm tired of having to explain why using editions, people as mascots. Monikers is fundamentally wrong. because. These teams are not indigenous owned teams. These aren't names that are coming from within US aside. And I don't understand why. People can't just understand that. Just, the man, the teams change and move on with the sport. Leave US alone. We may be getting to that point earlier this year though the team wrapped up a three year long reviews saying it would keep the name after finding quote. No consensus now they've launched a second review which included a survey about potential name change, did you? Did you see that survey and if you did? What did you make of it? It is see that survey. Straw polls on racism are unethical. The fact that many enemies. Have stated very publicly. But. That term has been used against on racial slur. As an ethnic slur and is derogatory. Should. Really be taken to heart by the team. Yes there are innovator okay with the turn. There are some intimate who support the use of that name. But nothing is going to displace those who have been devastated by the use of that name. That's why this seems to go to protect those who have been hurt by it and reconcile with the fact that we are living breathing, Canadian and indigenous people. We're not placing for a sports, organization or city. For our listeners, who who may not be aware of what was in the survey, it asked among other things whether the term eskimo is disrespectful of Innuendo or indigenous people. It also asked whether there's quote too much. Cancel culture today. It isn't up to a non ambitious person. To wait, and this isn't a debate. It can't be a debate. You don't see this happening against any other ethnicity in this country this time. And I want to thank Boston Pizza and also Belair direct who have? Either threatened to or overdrawing their sponsorship of the team and I would then question preparations like tsn Tim Hortons tell us. Is this what your brand releasing as well? It is time to change this name. This survey also says the team chose its name more than a century ago out of quote, acknowledgement, perseverance and hardiness of any culture. What do you think when you hear that? The broader use of indigenous mascots in sports across North America was largely predicated on the idea of a noble savage, also on the idea that indigenous peoples were going to die out. And that was a widely held belief in late eighteen hundreds of early. So the idea of celebrating a society that was destined to be obliterated off the face of the earth. And celebrating the traits that a nonindigenous society they have about an indigenous people that they've never met her interacted with. was highly offensive, then even though it was socially acceptable and even more offensive, no. I wonder. Do you think all of the conversations? Happening now suggests that things are different now and that a change to the name may actually come. In large part to focus on flak last night or movement, and then mazing, what happened from black community mobilizing and those allies of particularly but. It is now than progress into support for indigenous rights and pushing back against then racism. So it makes me optimistic that. We're able to see things that we might not have ever thought would be possible lifetimes. I have no idea how this particular issue is going to play out. But I'm heartened by all of the things that have happened in the last few months whether it be the removal of statues that celebrate people who've committed genocide. Or whether it is this renewed focus on a practice of? Non Indigenous Communities and corporations taking on indigenous mass causing monikers as if somehow. Are Honoring our respective. Dishes People's. Thank you so much for your time. Thank you for the opportunity take, care you, too. Not Tano bed is the president of inner Top Tommy Canada's National Inuit Organization. He was in Ottawa. School. Burger King wants you to know something. The cows they use to make their burgers emit gas, and they plan to do something about it to reduce those emissions, so they hired Mason Ramsey also known as the Walmart Yodeling kid to sing a little ditty about cow, burps and farts take a listen. release. M, men met. Does, do the. and. Walk? Change our. J.. Grizz just me. The AD goes on to say that. Burger King has developed a new cattle feed. That includes lemongrass at the company claims reduces methane emissions by about a third, but some scientists think that claim may not pass the smell test. Frank Mitt Learner researches emission mitigation in livestock at the University of California Davis. That's where we reached him. So I don't know whether to say you're welcome or I'm sorry to our listeners professor meet the owner. What was your first thought when you saw and heard this new Burger? King add. Well I was quite conflicted. I have to say because On the one hand I applaud Burger King Foot taking this issue of greenhouse gases from livestock, and thus from the put that they serve seriously so you know finding negation efforts and funding mitigation efforts for researchers, not for me by my colleagues in different places. That's positive what I do not like at all is the hook they used because they are trying to make it a laughing matter when it is serious. And that the basis of the whole piece, which is the mitigation effective of LEMONGRASS has not really been published yet. So in one study it was found to be inconclusive and the in the other study it was written up in a report, but never published, and so with such unsure results, I would not go out to the world and say here. We have something that everybody should know. Go and run with. Claim is that they've found a feed that reduces emissions. By thirty three percent. There was another study about lemongrass in cattle feed done as I understand it by one of your. UC Davis colleagues. What did that one find? It was inconclusive because the type of lemon grass was fed to those cows. Was Not effective in reducing. And? It's believed that it didn't have enough of the active ingredient, which is ten in it. I understand your colleague was using a different kind of lemongrass and the researchers in Mexico, who worked with Burger King were using? How much of a difference might that make? That might make a lot of difference because if the active ingredient is different in concentration than the result will be different as well. What do you think Burger King is basing that claim on that? I mentioned to the claim about the thirty three percent reduction of emissions. Five I know solely on the study from Mexico But as I said, this is not a published study, and so in my opinion, this is pretty shaky ground and we should be clear I think the producers want me to say these words on as it happens, but. It's not. FARTS! That are the issue. It's burps when we're talking about cows and methane emissions right? Yeah, there are two sources of methane kettle. The one is enteric emissions, and that's methane coming from the rumen from the stomach of those animals that have belched out, and the second source is waste that these animals produce, and which overtime emits gases when that waste decomposes, but it's not an excellent. Important to notes. And we should point out here that your own research isn't funded or backed at all by the beef industry. The other factor is when, and how long as I understand it. The cows are actually eating this feed. So how should that factor into the claims Burger? King is making. So think about the life span of a beef animal being fourteen to sixteen months. So that is approximately the time they are life. And only the last third of their lives, they are in the feet lot the rest of their lives there are on pasture, and so if you truly want to have a thirty three percent reduction of methane, then you would have to show that reduction throughout the entire life cycle that animal and not just finishing face. And so, that also was not considered in their reporting, so it's not really reducing the overall footprint. If it does then by no more than maybe five or ten percent at most. So Burger. King has already selling. It's reduced. Methane emissions beef whopper catchy, maybe not as catchy. A title as the song might be, it's it's being sold in some American cities now. So how many people do you think we'll? We'll hear that ad that. And just. I don't know. Swallow it whole so to speak. I don't know that's that's the question I answered, but what I do know is that most people will not. The nuance around all of this. We'll just believe what they are being told and. I find it kind of unfortunate that the company didn't wait. Until, they had real clarity around what this stuff does, and how well or so it works. Why do you think the company decided to do this now? Is it perhaps because of the pandemic will one hand business maybe slower on the other, though you know sort of more captive audience and hungry, if I can use that word for these kinds of cute funny videos, then end up going viral. Well as you said, it is a cute video and It's catchy and the usual are used, and they want to show that they care can. That's good thing. They want to show that they care and and I support that. But in my opinion, that didn't go about this the right way and that will customs credibility. Sentence of their video was since we are part of the problem, we are working to be part of the solution. No I totally agree with that statement and that being a good moto one that I would agree I do myself. Yeah in my lab at UC Davis but. If you proclaim that what you're doing is scientifically sound and has been proven by major universities, and so on, and then people look into this and find nothing then you are risking reputational damage. Professor Turner. This has been a fascinating conversation. I'm so glad we could chat. Well. Thank you for having me appreciate it. Take Care You, too. Frank Meet Learner is a professor in the Department of Animal, science at UC Davis. We reached him in Davis California. He smashed pretty much. Every billboard and streaming record that matters has already been strained more than a billion. People still to this day. Point to this is the moment everything changed, but whether you agree with those claims or not, this podcast is really about him either you're. An astute businessman or you're inherently racist when it comes to black music country, this is not a drake podcast available now on CBC listen or wherever you get your podcasts. I told the court that I'm wrong to. ME. To. Use One, small man! Giant wheel. I do wish to say official that I'm wrongfully right now. Uncover season seven. Dead Wrong. killed. If they may, be. Available on CBC listen and wherever. You get your podcasts. At the start of this year, thousands of former federal day school students were able to start applying for compensation day. Schools like residential schools were designed to assimilate indigenous students while stripping away their languages and cultures. Some of those schools operated into the nineteen nineties, but for Wilfrid Bolio the process hasn't been easy seven months later. He's left confused by the delays. Mr Bolio is a day school survivor in Fort. Resolution in the Northwest Territories matters where we reached him and a note for our listeners. This interview contains descriptions of abuse. Mr Bolio Kenny you take us back about seven months or so when you were filling out. Day School claim. What's the process of filling out that claim like? Reprocess, filling claim about getting was. CUTTING BEEN EMOTIONAL PARTLY It's time to. Go back and let's do all. All the abuse and school that happened in federal day school, so I had to go backtrack along wage back into the sixties. Until Lake was six years old. Nineteen sixty six. So there's a lot of backtracking and when I did Kinda Bach. To where really wanted to start from? From there this they To Stay Ben some ties all over again. There are five levels of compensation as I understand it. The level one doesn't ask for for a lot of Specific proof of what happened levels two to five require a bit more. Which one did you apply for? Salmon, one of those levels to? When I I did told me. Is GonNa take? Two hundred ten days until they go to payment. On my two hundred day I called him back. Just to get a status. Update as two things on my claim, after I give them on my information to who I am like my sin number date of birth. Like got in partner told me. Of My. Case was still under review. It was another. We were talking you told me. To. Cut Me off, is it? Something time to get hold of you yesterday. And you said the reason wiser timing. Because! My application was incomplete. Emits on hold. Did they tell you how you can fix that situation? Awesome. How and they said he doesn't have access to just do. I'm just. Tells them to see Deloitte has had the process can take up to a year. They say they've also received more than sixty thousand claims. There's also the pandemic of course. Can You understand why the process might be slower, or do you think that's not a good enough reason? that's done good enough reason because. From January to middle loads, align all midland January actually. It's a long time and then. Since that time. I've been cutting one word of any kind of correspondence from the. Nobody's given me a letter giving me a phone call Mrs why a cup colleague. So. What have they told you will happen next? told me. Everything is done thing. There's nothing you can do. No goodness, send me an altercation. You've already said how traumatic it was filling it up the first time. Do you. Through the process again. Don't think actually doing things so. This is a difficult question to ask Mr Voglio, but as much as you're willing to to reveal to us. Can you tell me a little bit about what you experienced during your four years at the Peter Pond Day school. On! It's like I, said it's in between of I was too too far. Was a lot of bullying. I went through with the teachers. Not just the teachers who they kinda favored something maybe talk boys. I did see that and then. Is Talk with guys withdraw two smaller kids like myself and Bowie. Some of our listeners might not know what level two to five means. So for you. What was it like in in the classrooms at that school? There was some good times. When they got to. Participate of either. They can sports and. Also how bad times these are! Times that didn't make Gordon School didn't make it in school or scared of the teachers and. I failed a grade because of that. Numb those lot of. Emotional abuse been called. Turnover that'd be like a useless immune. Make everybody else in. The community. Told stuff that and getting ahead banged against the wall, getting straps and. Get in the back of my hair pulled in my ear, twisted and. Shoved into the dust. Self there yet. When and Given then. Just the beginning. I'm so sorry you had to go through that Mr Bolio I know it's some. It's affected you into life now. Obviously and you and you struggle with PTSD. I'm having good. Even talk with you, know. Kinda. Do fewer. Commitment again. Sorry install it. Just comes to me when. Jacuzzi Bob. If someone from Deloitte WHO's working on these claims or someone in the government is listening to this interview. What would you like to say to them? What would you like them to do? For you into really Get a hold of each client ones that haven't been compensated yet and better off where things are. Just like myself. They should've told me a long time ago. My application been good doc in January, but get over reviewing it. Listen. There two hundred and ten days is up to me. Normally, altercation is not good. Out there six months of telling means that they've been. My case is under review under review review on. I really do hope you get an answer soon and that we stay in touch so that we can find out what happens. Thank you so much for your time. Thank you very much for you guys times. T care like your. Wilford? Voglio is a federal day school survivor. We reached him in Fort Resolution Northwest Territories. In a statement to CBC North the Federal Department of Crown. Indigenous Relations said. The mistreatment of indigenous children is a tragic and shameful part of Canada's history. The department directed survivors who have concerns about the settlement process to contact Deloitte and Deloitte has now responded to CBC. North's request for comment saying quote, we are meticulously reviewing claims in order to ensure survivors received the compensation. They are owed as quickly as possible. Adding that an incomplete claim form will require collection of additional information and caused delays in processing. I think it's fair to say that. No human being knows chimpanzees quite as well as Jane Goodall. It's a chimp laugh. They have a sense of humor They don't blush and they don't. Cry didn't have tears. Jane Goodall Imitating Chimp Laugh on CBC. A few decades ago, it was a few decades before that that a twenty six year old spiring researcher walked into a forest and Tanzania for the first time the research she would do there forever changed our understanding of chimps and challenged the conventions of scientific research, for example that naming your subjects is a no, no, but miss. Goodall used emotional insight in tandem with detached scientific observation to learn more than anyone had ever heard about fee David Greybeard and Frodo. This week marks the sixtieth anniversary of that game changing trip, so here's a little Jane Goodell's interview with the CBS's Peter. Sqi from Nineteen eighty-six. The chimpanzee is the closest creature to humans alive. Today we share ninety nine percent of our genetic material. And if by studying a creature that's very complex and very intelligent, but not quite as complex as the human, not depending on culture, the way that we do and moreover a creature without spoken language. If we can sort out. Something, regarding the biological basis of behavior. Then we can look humans and say well. Perhaps this factor is important for us to let's let's test it. To what degree has over? Over your own years of observation and study to what degree has has your sense of their intelligence or have have you since their intelligence is greater than you had I anticipated? That's a wordy way of saying. Do you think they're smarter now than you thought when you started well I, do and it's not really just because of the work I've done gunby low cost. The longer you study, these chimps, the more you realize. How intelligent they are, but of course there's so much work being done on captive chimps teaching them asl sign language of the deaf testing them putting them in conditions where they are forced to work. To give an answer to solve a problem. Encouraging them to use their brains I mean we humans most of us don't use more than a very tiny percentage of our brain, power and ordinary everyday life, not the chimps, so you see the the real brilliance of the chimp intellect more in captive situations than in the world, but but in a while too I mean thinking. He made use of his elder brother in achieving top dominance rank in the mail hierarchy only challenge the higher ranking male when his brother was president, because he knew that his brother would help him, and his brother did these these are good examples of using intelligence. Pioneering primatology Jane Goodall on CNBC, CB's morningside in nineteen eighty six this week mark sixty years since the primatology began her research on apes in Tanzania. Law. One of the giants in the fight against HIV AIDS that's how a vice chancellor at UC San Diego remembers her on twitter. The CEO of the California Life Science Association called her a humble giant and a leader for women science. They were talking about flossie Wong. Stall the Chinese American. Molecular virologist who spent decades researching HIV and AIDS miss install died earlier this month. She was seventy three. Dr George Pavlak. I met Flossie Wong stall in the nineteen eighties. He's a section chief at the national. Cancer Institute today and we reached him in Frederick Maryland. Dr Is. Tell us what flossie Wong Staal was like as a colleague and friend. He was a very accomplished scientists, a very strong woman in the months world, I met her during exciting times, and she was scolding her own. And they're pretty tough and moving conditions. Tell me about those exciting times. How did you meet? When did you mean? Or I met at the beginning of the eighties, which was also the beginning of the as. We're working in the same building at the National Cancer Institute investor as a young independent researchers at that time I wanted to get the DNA clone over the AIDS virus express by the brand new technology of genetic engineering, which would what developing at that time so that we produce a vaccine for AIDS in Flosi, the Gallup rope were cloning the virus in the same, bending with bathrooms Khan and others in the group. So That's how we started our instead of just meeting that corridors a we started our collaborations. How do you think miss? Install felt about being a prominent female scientists at that time as you mentioned a man's world. Oh see loved it, so that was care world. See, was they? Could Scientists see enjoyed at work and see enjoyed the being in the middle of I, compare the climate that this time in says that was pretty much what we signed this experience now within your vitals very exciting traveling times at the same time, but also very rapid progress. Lots of collaborations, lots of changes really a A special time MS, Wong. Stall was working with the scientists, Robert, Gallo, in some may remember that they were years of controversy involving Mister Gallo and French scientists, both sides, claiming to have discovered the link between HIV AIDS how did she feel about this time? And and did you think it overshadowed the work that they were all doing in a way? Yes, very is a big shadow over a lot of people and in this era quite unfortunately. Of course they were big egos and big interest and lots of controversies in there is enough blame to go around. But there was also a tremendous amount of good and useful science that was done, which also has to be put on the balance and a philosophy did had set or more, and actually I believe she was Voice of reason, plus you would never saw weakness of course, but few thanks to be fair I think over all had good relationships with a lot of other scientists so I think so over also was a voice of reason. What would you say? flossie Wong stalls greatest achievement west. Well. See was tremendously instrumental in. Cloning the virus That's I used that that who you know, essentially start my career nightside. Eight suites continues in addition, the other contributions like understanding. Sam over regulatory circuits of HIV that was extremely important to try to understand the disease, and also one thing that we still use those of us that we still try to develop AIDS vaccines. After thirty five forty years, see was among the first to study, the virus regions and the cost regions of ide-. I read that her dad named her flossy after a typhoon. It really does sound like she was force of nature. Yes S, he was stronger woman, she was elegant. and the woman did not want to so weakness. He was cool. I've never really seen her very rarely seen. lose her temper. And Was admire of Grace Kelly. And see loved the beautiful things and Beautiful tessies. She was a very very interesting woman. She. She made some comments in the years before her death about the importance of diversity. HOW PROUD! She was to to be an immigrant to the United States. What do you think she made a of the time? That you're in in the US right now in terms of representation. For. I'm not sure that Looking at where we are now that Let me put it this way. I hope that's who would not be totally disappointed that we were not moving. Really as fast as we should, and could things that I saw him doing the beginning of V8 Debbie. bad behaviors stig my fights. Political problems said I that I was hoping that that we would be wiser and we will not go through that again, but here we are. And we have to try more and better. I didn't know her, but I suspect she would have wanted that as well doctor. Thank you so much for your time. Thank you for helping us. Celebrate the life, or an achievement of a great sense. Thank you? Dr George Pataki says a scientist and section chief at the national. Cancer Institute! He was in Frederick Maryland Flossie Wong Stall Leader in HIV AIDS. Research died this month. She was three and you can find more on this story on our web page at CBC dot Ca Slash Ah. Eden Robinson's book son of a trickster defies classification. It's fantasy meets. Humor meets horror with a dash of young adult literature, thrown in for good measure or maybe bad measure, but in a good way. It's kind of complicated. Take the takes eight years to right, but it has kept the highs la in health soup author on the best of lists ever since it came out and this year it's caught. The eye of Canada reads panelists. GANEA DEA horn the Mohawk actor will be defending the novel in next week's scheduled. Canada reads debates which I have the honor of hosting and. Got To sit down with Eden Robinson for a little one on one about the book. To me at the heart of of a trickster is jared the extreme care that he has support all the other characters, and even though they're complicated and sometimes dangerous. Yes still cares so. How you first introduced to the trickster character. We get in the crib with the ball They told us trickster stories as kids like. Daily so mutual someone I I had to remember like the stories. That would be lake. After dinner. Everyone used together at the kitchen table. And we would. Be Having dessert in smoking. Drinking a lot of coffee and I have so many wonderful storytellers, my family. They would all try to one up each other. So when they started on the weakest stories, they would get faster in crazier in Funnier, and the goal is to make people laugh until they beat. Off. What is the one thing I should make sure everyone knows about your book. I would like people to enjoy the grey areas, the complexities and the interactions with the characters. I don't think having characters that are like all likable all the time interesting true. That's like I like playing bad guys. Sometimes because it's like you know you get to go into the mind and you get to see what motivates them because they are. Not just bad, and that's it. That! Yeah? He now let's tracking them. It's you know it's not it's. It's something that they feel very. Yeah, those are the characters. Son of a trickster author Eden Robinson speaking with the books Canada reads champion GonNa. Do Horn. The Battle of the books kicks off on Monday for all the details. You can visit CBC Books Dot CA. You've been listening to the as it happens podcast, our show can be heard Monday to Friday on CBC Radio One following the world at six. You can also listen to the show on the web at CBC. Dot Ca Slash Aih. Thanks for listening I'm you cook saw and I'm Ali Hassan. For more CBC podcasts. GOTO CBC DOT CA slash podcasts.

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Ep. 2 Can't Nobody Stop Us

Peace Of Mind with Bhi Bhiman

26:31 min | 2 years ago

Ep. 2 Can't Nobody Stop Us

"History pools that dictatorships do not grow out of strong and successful governments, but out of weak and helpless one. From critical frequency. I'm be beaming in this is peace of mind. I'm a singer, songwriter and producer. I'm a dad, and I'm an American peace of mind is an experiment. It's my new album, but I'm releasing it as a podcast. Today's episode is can't nobody stop us in the theme of this episode is democracy in what happens when the pillars of democracy. Start to fall our guest today. Our voice of America reporters, celebs Solomon, retired superior court. Judge the doors for Dell an investigative journalist for frontline on PBS. Neil dougherty. Let's talk about the four pillars of modern democracy here in America. There's a legislative branch who makes laws the executive branch that carries out the laws. The judicial branch who interprets and enforces the laws for Bruce and a free press holds all of these two accounts. But let's start with the judicial branch, which I thought I knew something about, but really I didn't know a whole hell of a lot. So I sat down with judge the doors Cordell. She taught me why an independent judiciary is essential in the healthy democracy. I'm trying to do my best to educate people about the judiciary. It is the third branch of government. And it is the least dangerous. Until a nice big now under Trump. The judiciary has become very dangerous sometime about the federal federal judges were pointed for life, and it's stunning because without that sturdy independent branch of our government democracy is doomed. Absolutely. Do you know that there's nothing in the constitution? That says there any qualifications. You have to have to be appointed to the supreme court by the president. So Trump could nominate his daughter. And there's nothing in the constitution. It says how many supreme court justices. There have to be free. We have nine once there were six months, there were ten and confirmation hearings. There were none in the beginning. The first chief Justice was John J appointed seventeen Eighty-nine his confirmation hearing lasted two days that was it. It was done ready to go. So it's time we become more informed about who are these people in black robes who have so much control over our lives. The judge. I have all the power you coming into my colon. That's my house. I am the producer director. I tell you when to speak when to sit down when to stand up, and I make decisions about your life that could be whether or not you get to keep your kids. And then, of course, on the criminal side. Right. I can take your liberty away from you. I can sentence you to death. Now, interestingly, you know, they're law schools all around the country, right? There's no schools that teach dredging could be a lawyer who's been sitting at a desk, and contracts and transactional work side. I want be a judge so ply run for judge your jet. You'd leave your office announced you gotta row go to work now. Go ahead and decide who gets custody of the kids have no training. You have no background or decide on a criminal case set bail here. You have no training. And it's it's shocking is isn't a stunning. No. Because you wouldn't go get brain surgery from a foot doctor. If you can't tell the Doris is a bit of a force to be reckoned with she's broken barriers across race and gender. She's a fierce advocate for police oversight, and she's not afraid to voice her opinion. Even when his unpopular in two thousand sixteen the doors came under fire when she spoke out against the recall of the judge in the Brock Turner case. Her reasoning was lost on a lot of people liberals, especially here's a clip of her discussing her position on MPR. I am against the recall for a number of reasons. The first of which the said, I believe it is a dangerous threat to the independence of the two dish airy I believe this recall is terrible for racial Justice. It sends a message to every judge on every court in California and really beyond. And so lot of the defendants are young people and mostly males of color Latino and African American they are the ones who are going to receive the sentencings of these judge. Who are going to be hesitant? If not fearful to impose a leniency in a sentence. And I'm very concerned about what's happening in this country starting with the administration in Washington is head a trickle down effect where the judiciary is now targeted by those who just think well judges are not doing what we want to. Let's just toss them all out the whole Egitim ac- of our judiciary is at stake here. Now back to my conversation with the doors. And you went on. And you got pushback. So I mean that just proves how unfair full you are in your kind of a disruptor. I've never been called a disrupted. I do that. I mean, I- judiciary. I like it all I like it. The doors is one of the most impressive people I've ever talked to and on top of everything else. She's also an accomplished musician artist, and she's a fixture with the Commonwealth club checkout. More judge Cordell dot com. Something I fully taken advantage of as a songwriter and the son of immigrants in America is the right to free speech. Those first amendment rights really set America part in my opinion, is what makes us really great freedom of religion freedom of peaceful, assembly, freedom of speech and freedom of press. You can look all over the world see that authoritarian regimes target the press. I I talked about this with journalists slim Solomon, she's a reporter with voice of America's Africa division and has a unique perspective. Having also worked for the state owned media in her native air tria when I was in air. I wasn't aware of the impact journalism had because I was working a state owned media. So we didn't have say as much but after leaving the country. I started seeing the value of actual journalism and telling the stories of the most vulnerable, those people who don't have that form to connect with the world and bringing attention to issues that need to be in, you know, pause. He makers minds when they're making these decisions, and how it affects the daily lives of average people who are powerless if someone is in public office. They shouldn't have anything to hide in. And it really goes hand in hand. End with a country enjoying less cases of corruption. When there is a fourth estate or oppress that really checks what's going on in the interest of the people. And so you have really strong civil liberties for that reason it when you're serving the public including journalists, by the way, you need to be held to account for what you've put out as well. I think it goes both ways to hide exactly. So criminal. Then that's exactly the value that reporters and press freedom upholds when you're chasing a soya about on corruption of people were breaching laws or bending them. So that they can suppress without any accountability. And I think it really applies in all these pillars that we're talking about. When we're looking at civil liberties one of the affects of living in this post truth, click bait Twitter world, we live in is that the integrity of journalism has been dragged through the mud by called the fake news. The enemy of the people, and they are amount of work that goes into writing a story fact checking it making sure you're legally covered to print. It is something journalists deal with every day. Neil dougherty. Is a veteran. Investigative news journalist who has written for newspapers and created several documentaries for PBS's frontline, including on our watch about the genocide in. Are four and Putin's way which details the Russian president's meteoric rise. I spoke to Neil from his home in Toronto. I actually think the price in particular president America is actually doing a pretty good job. Given what facing with the Trump administration? I think that is doing a great job of trying to find out story in so-so by get to the bottom of the story. May I think would need of a great civic Fleiss in that moment in North America where you know, if something goes on CNN or the New York Times or the Washington pools, whatever newspaper editors and then often schools Julio's before he can get published. I think there's a great need for understanding what it takes to put an item on or in them proper newspaper and people I think losing sight of that. I mean, I've worked with newspapers in Britain have what with the New York Times here. I I mean, I know for hand how difficult it is to to get things on prove them. And through the editors and the questions that we get has. And then the legal screenings that go on you don't hear about that. From my end, the consumer India, it's an obvious process in a lot of things don't get said. No because I'm not true. But because perhaps we can second source some so I mean, I've been in hundreds of discussions link pen and also as for material to be withdrawn because over it, occasionally, what's both ways where someone in the team wants it on and you have to adult discussions where you decide that actually sustain this improve it. So I'd like to see people. Take more cognizant so haunted is to these things on line and print. So have you ever gotten yourself into a bit of a vulnerable, potentially scary situation? Maybe you're careful, but you seem to have no fear in certain regards. Well, yeah. Well, yeah, we've been in a few scrapes. I must say I've never looked at any of this. And there are many journalists who've been many more dangerous situations than I have. But the worst was heating and that was the nineties when RSD was being returned to power coach ac- of American influence and military, actually, and we will just before he was due to come back. And they had these very nasty gangs told the tone, the Tashin is. Two incidents were the attaches worried. What terrible one was I was trying to get interview with the leader of the attaches. You know, when you go broad in these places you've rely on very brave journalists, we we hope fixers and the fix in KOTA France in heating was young woman. And she said, well, they attaches all hang out on the street in Port-au-Prince. So we can go there if you want, but it's pretty dangerous. So I said, well, let's go check it out and one with a crew cameraman I signed by the driver and the fixer and the an I got the car, and there was a throng of guys with guns and talking in the hundreds and was weaving through them trying to find the leader. Who refined? I'm known discussions with the leader trying to reach an interview and the guy behind me screaming and leading off it rifle into the air. Pruned to noise slide noise. I don't play noises. I remember, Tony George exasperate. And what is that guy? Seeing. He said he's saying let should this shit now which barred from the alliteration with pretty Kimmy. So I took it. We just kept talking to buddy the chief. And he agreed to be interviewed. We probably might guy show for for the interview. And that's pretty well. What happened he agreed to be interviewed? And and we would've we've our way out of there into the cruise treaded they could see those problem, and they came out of the van to want to try and help us so make space to get back to the van. So that was pretty scathing. The trouble was these days is the completely Trump down. They were paid but strokes. And the next day. I remember we were doing a stunned up whether reporter front of the American embassy in Port-au-Prince announcing what was happening. And I think the next day the military Judeo Ryan. And with this group of attaches, turn the corner in g porous Louis harms, and they jump the Jeep and the could've gone on all of us in a Mike gone with right on my nose number as a terrifying experience to book on the bottle of a gallon. That's terrifying springs in and all that sounds, but to do it and see the guys is like saucers and understand. He's completely drugged. And if he believes you away, he probably won't remember it. Well. Well. And I do think back to that. And think I was very very lucky to get out of there because the whim of somebody's. Yes. And and that is a that is a really Saudi tweaks given she don't want it too much of that. Neil Tomio lot of crazy stories during our conversation. And he kept saying the worst was this in the worst was that. It just goes to show how many crazy situations. Journalists put themselves in all around the world. Doc was trying to do a film Monday genocide Dopp fort we were accused of spying by who by the government. And so we're under house arrest for about ten days and below maneuvering to get his tend to get Sydney's fixing them. So after escaping John. I did have the conversation with ceremony wife about going back because the pretend days they're on it. They looked pretty bad. And I didn't go back. We did make a film so took two trips to complete it to trips. Yeah. You know? It was the Janice. I don't we wanted to tell the story. So I think you also if the way how important is a story as to how much danger you're prepared to pick yourself in one of these stories of the decade, in my opinion, and almost all but forgotten in many circles today thinking is very important. I remember raging Elaine about a blind man, a particular, you know, it was faced out of Sudan, the flying wife had been killed his two children, and he was waiting in a refugee camp, very near the border. And they were very fearful that the Jan Joe eat where combating terror all over southern Sudan the job we were about to come. And remember rating the line of hell has a waiting room in my shoe. They look like this. I remember that one. Yeah. Very troubling, very sad half of that stories about Darfur and Sudanese government and the refugees, but the other half is the impotence of the UN. Yeah. And that was just as heartbreaking because the writing on the wall about things going on now Myanmar and the Rohingya or Yemen and just how effective are they? And what are they? Right. And how never again has become as a promise semi as a whole ring to it in a way. Having traveled the world as an investigative journalist. Neil knows what democracy looks like. And he also knows what it doesn't look like I think one of my worries is being traveling the world and looking at various countries and many of them have been in the sorry state Stanley, many of those no ping democratic is actually the paucity of democracy that there is in this world and the lack of dude governance wherever you go. If you think about it, you have western Europe, North America and one or two of the countries, there's not much China is obvious and tame state Russia's a clipped Tokar Z, India's a democracy for sure but corruption is rife and is always on the knife edge as to whether that's going to be sold or not. So that's a lot of humanity. Just in that. And then you now in countries like Chad or elsewhere, there's no semblance of democracy at all. And all of them are marked by no free press violence against journalists. Jailing and killing of journalists. No real opposition. No, real elections and terrible, poverty and great inequality. These are qualities you find wherever you travel in the world at doesn't have democracy. I mean people suffer as a result. And I have to say there's too much of that around. I mean is overwhelming sometimes ho little decent governance arrays. How little even a semblance of these governance in this world? And it's really a worry. We tend to think democracy is big to into the system and can be undone and I'm not so sure that's true. I think it can't be undone could be undone. Up next. I'll breakdown the song you've been hearing throughout the episode can't nobody stop us. But first recommendation of another podcast. I think you'll enjoy. Hey, this is Chris Jacobs host of the shift list and new podcast where chefs talk about the music that fills their kitchens restaurants in recipes from LA to Copenhagen music inspire. Some of the world's greatest chefs to push further into their creativity and deliver exciting new dishes. Discover new music every week from the people who use it in their kitchens every day before during and after a shift on the shiftless podcast available now from BGS wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts. You might be thinking that I wrote this song in response to Trump. But you'd be wrong. I wrote this song in two thousand nine and it was in response to the Sri Lankan president and war crimes and atrocities that took place under his watch. But this song is is really a military March. It's like a dictators inaugurations. I had these two chords chords. We're just chunk it along and the baseline was kind of this intertwined locomotive engine. And I always look for that sort of synergy. You know what I'm saying? Like each thing is playing off each other. And then recording the song. I did something. I don't do often. Which is lupus section in jam over it on the Qatar until I come up with. You know, the parts. It was actually really fun really spur of the moment. Really fast. Took like ten minutes of me looping. And a long time ago. I had heard this song called hubby by Ali Hassan coupon. I don't know if I'm saying, right? Hey, you be. And then I popped back up and this movie that baron Cohen did called the dictator. Played in somehow because beat is the drumbeat is pretty similar. One of the bands that meant a lot to me growing up was rage against the machine. I had never seen anything like them before. And this really reminds me of rage for whatever reason, maybe you here too. It's the first person because sometimes I feel like I can say a lot more interesting things by taking the role of the bad guy. And so in this song, I'm the dictator. You know, I say lines like. Journalists in prison. Talking has they warned us. The typing has prescribed in hands prescribe. Kind of like a nod to the news media and print media and the docking heads. Now, here's the full song. Be sure to come back next week. We're talking about voter suppression and the multi pronged attack on voting in America. Our guests are Dale ho director of the ACLU voting rights project and Taza met of eighteen million rising the good Muslim bad Muslim podcast. If you're enjoying the show, so far please rate us on I tunes. It helps us find listeners. Cain. Nobody's. Flying. Peace of mind is produced and distributed by critical frequency, our producers, Katie Ross, Jen rice and Amy westervelt all music for the show is written in performed by me, DB Mun sound design and mixed by John Jamea, additional editing by Finn Matthews for bonus material and to support the show please had to peace of mind, pot dot com. You can also support us by leaving us a five star rating in review on your favorite podcast app. And join us next week for some peace of mind.

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Kisah Hikayat Kehidupan Nabi Muhammad SAW Versi Bahasa Inggris Podcast Edition

Jannah Firdaus Mediapro Podcast

2:52:08 hr | 2 years ago

Kisah Hikayat Kehidupan Nabi Muhammad SAW Versi Bahasa Inggris Podcast Edition

"Life of prophet Muhammed solo all you asylum. The last messenger and prophet of God English edition written by Jonathan does media pro narrated by mafia Moroney at marina. Chapter one. Perfect muhammed. So low Ali Hassan them was born in mecca Arabia on Monday, twelve for a while or to August, eighty five hundred seventy his mother, I'm gonna was the daughter also what even up Duman of of the family. His father of the law was the son of Abdul metallic is you -nology has been traced to the noble house of Ishmael the son of profit ever home in about the fourteenth destined. Muhammed's father died before his birth before. He was six years old his mother died and the doubly orphan Muhammad was put under the charge of his grandfather up boom without it who took the most tender care of him. But the old chief died two years afterwards. His deathbed he confined to his son. I would leave the charge of the little orphan. When Muhammad was twelve years old, he accompanied his uncle would deli on American tile journey to Syria, and they proceeded as far as Bush raw the journey lasted for some months. It was a Bushra that the Christian mung Bahira net. Muhammed his related to have set to deliver. We turn with this boy and guard him against the hatred of the Jews for a great career awaits your nephew. After this journey. The youth of Muhammad seems to have been passed on eventful, but all thority agree in scribe. Ing to him such Courtney of MENA and purity is morals as were rare. Among the people of mecca the fair character and the honorable bearing of the NFC truths of youth one the upper Bachchan of the citizens of mecca and by common consent. He received the title of all mean the faithful. In his early years. Mohammed was not free from the cares of life. He had to watch the flocks of his uncle who like the rest of the Bani Husham had lost the greater part of his wealth. From youth demand. Hurt. He let an almost solitaire relies the lawlessness rive among the meccas the sudden outburst of cost less and bloody quarrels among the tribes. Reckoning the fair of Okada the Arabian Olympia, and they morality and skepticism of the garage naturally cost feelings of petey and sorrow in the heart of the sensitive youth such scenes, social misery and religious aggregation were characteristic of depraved age. When was twenty five years old, he travelled ones more to Syria as a factor of a noble. Enrich core issue. Widow named Cutty Java and having proved himself faithful in this commercial interest of that lady. It was soon awarded with her hand in marriage this marriage proved fortunate and singularly happy DJ was much the senior of her husband. But in spite of the disparity of age between them the most tender devotion on both sides existed. This marriage gave him the loving heart of a woman who was ever ready to console him in his despair and to keep alive within him the feeble flickering, flame of hope when no men believed in him and the world appeared gloomy in his eyes until you reach thirty years of age mama was almost a stranger to the outside world since. The death of his grandfather authority in Macau was divided. Among the ten senators who constituted the governing body of the Arabian Commonwealth. There was no such accord among them as to ensure the safety of individual rights and property, though family relations, afforded some degree of protection to citizens yet. Strangers were frequently exposed to persecutions and oppressions in many cases, they were robbed not only for their goods, but even of their wives and daughters at the instigation of the faithful Muhamud an old league called the federation of food will favor was revived with the object of repressing lawlessness and defending every week individual what they're beckoned or stranger free or slave against any wrong or oppression to which you might be the victim within the territories of mecca. When Muhammed reached thirty five years his subtle by his judgement. A grave dispute which threatened to plunge the whole of the Rabiah into a fresh series of her off Corey wars in rebuilding the sacred house of of the cut by eighty six hundred and five the question arose as to who should have the honor of racing the Blackstone. The most Hawley relic of that house into its proper place. Each tribe claimed that honor the senior citizen advise disputants to except for their arbitrator. The first men to enter from certain gate. The proposal was agreed upon and the first men who entered the gate was Muhammad. I'll I mean. His advice satisfied all the contending parties. He ordered the stone to be placed on a piece of cloth and each tribe to share the honor of lifting it up by taking hold of a part of the cloth. The stone was thus deposited in its place and the rebuilding the house was completed without further interruption. It is related that about this time a certain of smut even Horry's supported by Xanten gold. Maiden attempt to convert the territory of adjust into a Roman dependency. But the attempt failed chiefly through the instrumentality of Mahama. These are nearly all the public acts related by historians in which Muhammad took part in the first fifteen years of his marriage to Caniggia as for his private live. He is described have been ever helpful to the needy and the helpless. His uncle with Ali had fallen into distress through his endeavors to maintain the old position has family. Muhammed being rather rich this time, but his aligns with Khudzha tried to discharge part of the debt of gratitude and obligation which he owed to his uncle by undertaking, the bringing up an education of his son a Li a year later, he adopted a kill another of his uncle sons. Khadijah Boreham HAMAs three sons and four daughters all the males died in childhood but in loving Ali. He found much consolation. This time. Muhammad set a good example of kindness, which created a solitary effect upon his people his wife could EJ had made him a present of young slave named Zaidi Eben Horita who had been brought as a captive to mce and sold to. When her read the heard that Muhammed possessed Zaidi he came to mecca and offered a large sum for his ransom were fun. Hamad said leads Zahid come here and who chooses to go with you take him without ransom. But if it be his choice to stay with me. Why should I not keep him the being brought into home Matz presence declared that he would stay with his master who treated him as if he was his only son Mohammed, no sooner hurt this that he took site by the hand, and let him to the Blackstone of Coppa where he publicly adopted him as his son to which the father acquiesced and returned home well-satisfied henceforward Zion was called the son of Muhammad. Muhammad was now approaching his fourteen year and his mind was ever engaged in profound contemplation. And reflection before him lay his country bleeding and torn by fratricidal wars at intolerable dissensions. His people sunk in our Barham addicted to the survey tion of rights and superstitions were with all the desert virtues, lawless and cruel his to physics to Syria had opened him a scene of unu- Trebol, moral and social desolation rival crates and sex tearing each other to pieces carrying their hatred to the valleys and deserts of jobs and rending the townships of Arabia with our quarrels and bitterness. Chapter two. For years after his marriage. Muhammad had been accustomed to seclude himself in a cave in mount hero, a few miles from that. To this cave used to go for clear and meditation sometimes alone and sometimes with his family. There. He often spend the whole night's deep side and profound communication with the unseen yet. All knowing a lot of the universe. It was during one of those retirements and in the still hours of the night. When no human sympathy was near that an angel came to him to tell him that he was the messenger of Allah sent to. Reclaim a fallen people to good knowledge and service of their Lord renewed compilers of offensive traditions of Islam agree on the following account of the first revelations received by the prophet Muhammed would seclude himself in the cave of mount hero in worship three days and nights. He would whenever he wished returned to his family at mecca and then go back again taking with him the necessities of life, thus he continued to return to from time to time until. One day. The revelation came down to him and the angel Gabriel or Gebreel appeared to him and said read, but as Mohammed was illiterate. Having never received any instruction in reading or writing. He set to the angel A m not a reader the angel took a hold of him and squeezed him as much as he could bear. And then sat again read the prophet said, I am not a reader the angel again sees the prophet in squeezed him and said read in the name of your Lord who has created all that exist has created a man from a clot a piece of thick cried related blood read, and your Lord is the most generous who has thought the writing by the pen has thought the men that which he knew not chapter ninety six I one to four occur on. The prophet. Repeated the words with a trembling heart he returned to Egypt from mount here and said wrote me up rep me up. She wrapped him in a garment until his fear was dispelled. He told kalija would accord and that he was becoming either soothsayer or one smitten with madness she replied a lover bit. Who will surely not let such a thing happen for us. The truth. You are faithful interest you bear the afflictions of the people you spend in good works. What you gain in trade? You are hospitable and you assist your fellow men. Have you seen anything terrible? Muhammad replied. Yes. And told her what he had seen were pawn. Could you set rejoice? Oh, dear husband and be cheerful. He is who's handstands Caniggia's live bears witness to the truth of the fact that you will be the profit to the people then she arose and went to her cousin, Laura even know fall who was old and blind. And who knew the scriptures of the Jews and Christians, and is stated to have translated them into a rubber. When she told him of what she had heard he cried out. Holy holy there. Really? This is the nominees. The Holy Spirit who came to mosses. He will be the prophet of his people tell him this. Embiid him to be brave at heart. When the two men met subsequently in the street, the blind old student of the Jewish and Christians ruptures, spoke of his faith and trust. I swear by him in who hen were 'cause live is all law has chosen you to be the profit of the Spiegel. They will call you a liar. They will persecute you they will banish you and there will fight against you. Oh that I could lift those days I would fight for these. And he kissed him on the forehead. The first vision was followed by a considerable period during which Muhammad suffered much mental depression, the angel spoke to the grieved heart of hope and trust and off the bright future. When he would see the people of the earth crowding into the one true faith, his destiny was unfolded to him when wrapped in profound meditation melancholy and sad his felt himself called by voice from heaven to arise and preach. Oh, you enveloped in garments arise and warn in your Lord magnify chapter seventy four. I one two three offer on. He arose an engaged himself in the work to which he was called Cutty Joe was the first to accept his mission. She was to believe in the revelations to abandon the idol Lateri, a her people and to join him and purity of hard an offering up prayers to along the mighty. At the beginning of his mission Muhammed here in after cult the prophet opened his soul only to those who were attached to him and try to free them from the gross practices of their forefathers. After his cousin Ali was the next companion. The profit used often to go into the desert around mecca with his wife and young cousin that they might together. Offer their heart felt things do the Lord of all nations for his manifold blessings once they were surprised by. Golly. The father of Ali he said to the prophet. Oh, son of my brother. What is this religion? You were following. It is the religion of a law of his angel of his messengers of our incest or labral home answered the profit. A law has sent me to his servants to direct them towards the truth. And you, oh, my uncle are the most worthy of all it is meat that. I should thus call upon you. And it is Mead that you should accept the truth and help in spreading it. Batali replied stunned if my brother I cannot jor the religion of my fathers, but by the supreme Lord while I am allies non shoal dare to injure you then turning towards Ali. The federal chief ask what religion was his Ali answered. Oh father. I believe in a law and his profit and go with him. With Oliver plight. Well, my son who will not call you to anything except what is good. Therefore, you are free to go with him. After only Muhammad's adopted son Zayd became a convert to the new faith. He was followed by up Bucker, a leading member of the Karaj tripe, and an honest wealthy merchant who enjoyed great consideration among his compatriots. It was two years younger than the profit. His adoption of the new faith was great moral effect soon after five notables presented themselves before the prophet unaccepted Islam. Several converts also came from lower classes of the arrests to adopt. The new religion. For three wary long years the profit Laborde very quietly to deliver his people from the worship of idols volley fees them was deeply rooted Mon the people it offered attractions, which the new faint in purity did not possess. The Karaj had personal material interests in the old warship and their prestige was dependent upon its maintenance the prophet had to contend with the idolatrous worship of its followers and to oppose the ruling oligarchy which govern its destiny. Chapter four. As the number of believers increased and the cost of the prophet was trying to buy the conversions of many powerful citizens. The process preaching alarmed, the Karaj their power and prestige were at stake. There were the custodians of the idols which the profit had threatened to destroy. They were the ministers of the worship, which he denounced in fact, their existence and living wholly dependent upon the maintenance of the old institutions the profit, THAAD that in the side of his Lord all human were equal. The only distinction recognize among them being the weight of their PT a law exulted said oh, men kind. We have created you from a male and female and made you into nations and tribes that you may know one another very early the. Most honorable of you in the site of a law is that believer who has atop qua- one of them would cooed pious and righteous person who fear much up stained from all kinds of sins and evil, which he has forbidden and low along much perform all kinds of good deeds, which he has ordained. Fairly all law is all knowing and all aware chapter fourteen nine I thirteen Alker on. The garage would have none of this leveling of distinctions as it reflected upon their long inherited privileges accordingly. They organized a system of persecution in order to suppress the movement before it became firmly established they decided that each family should take up on its self the task of stamping out the new face on the spot. Each household tortured, its own members or DARREN'S or slaves who were supposed to have connected themselves with the new religion, with the exception of the prophet. Who was protected by Abu Thalib, his kinsmen and Otto Bacher and a few others who were either distinguished by the ring or possessed some influence among the Karaj all other converts were subjected to different sorts of torture. Some of them were thrown into prison starved and locked the hill of Ramadan. And the place called Bata, thus became scenes of Kerr will torture one day the garage tried to induce the profit to discontinue his teachings of the new religion, which sewn dischord among their people. Even Rubia was delegated to see the prophet and speak to him. Best said oh Sunday. My brother, you are distinguished by your qualities yet, you have sown discord among our people and cast dissensions in our families, you denounced our gods goddesses, and you charge our ancestors with Impe. Now, we are come to make a proposition to you. And I ask you to think well before you rejected. I am listening to you. Oh, father also lead said the profit. Oh, son of my brother is by this affair you intend to acquire riches honors and dignity. We are willing to collect for you a fortune larger than by any one of us. We shall make you or cheese and will do nothing without you. If you desire dominion, we shall make you are king. And if the demon which possesses you cannot be subdued. We will bring you doctors and gives them richest until the cure. You. When I had finished his scores. The prophet said. Now. Listen to me. Oh, father of Wally. I listen, he replied the profit recited to him the first thirteen versus of Serov facilit-, which may be interpreted as follow in the name of a law. The most beneficent the most merciful mean these letters are one of the miracles on the Koran and non, but although alone knows their meanings. A revelation from a law the most benefit the most more civil a book were of the versus are explained in detail. A core on our big for people who know giving glad tidings Terry dies to the one who believes in the one of a law, Islamic, monotheism and fears a lot much of stains from all kinds of sins and evil deeds and loves much by performing all kinds of. Deeds which he has ordained and warning punishment in the hellfire to be the one who disbelieves in the oneness of a law. But most of them tarring away. So they listen not and they say or hearts, our undercover ngs from that to which you invite us and enor- ears is deafness, and between us a new is a screen so war you on your way fairly. We are working on our way say oh, mama. I am only a human being light you. It is inspired in me that you're a law or God is one Ila that is a law therefore, take the straight pass to him with true, faith, or Islamic monotheism and Abedian to him and seek forgiveness of him and go to almost rekeying or policed pagans idolaters and disbelievers in the one of a law. Those who worship. Others along with or setup rivals or partners to along those who not the car, and they are disbelievers in the hereafter truly those who believe in the one of all law and in his messenger Muhamud and do righteous good deeds for them will be endless reward that will never stop paradise. Stay hama. Do you disbelieve him who created the earth into days and you set up rivals in worship with him? That is the Lord of the Allah mean mankind, June and all that exists. He plays. They're in the earth for mountains from above it. And he blessed did and measured. Therein, it's Steyn's for its dwellers in four days equal all these four days equal in the length of time. For all those who ask about its creation, then he is still wall rose over towards the heaven when it was smoke and set to it and to the earth come both of you willingly or unwillingly. They off say we come willingly, then he completed and finished from their creation as seven heavens in two days, and he made in each heaven with lambs or stars to be an endorsement as well as to guard from the devils by using them as missiles against the devils such is the decree of him. The all mighty the all Noar. But if they turn away then say, oh, how mud I have warned you oversaw goal, a destruction awful cry torment hit asunder role. Like this. I gotta which overtook on end some mood. People chapter forty one I one to thirteen Alker on when the prophet had finished his recitation. He said to this is my reply to your proposition. Now, take what course you find best persecution by the Karaj grew fiercer every day and the sufferings of the prophets disciplines became unbearable. He had heard of the righteousness toll Orense and hospitality of the neighboring Christian king of Addison. Yeah, he recommended such of his companions who were without protection to seek review g in the kingdom of that pie is king all majority or Negus some fifteen of the unprotected DARREN'S of Islam promptly avail themselves of the advise and sailed to Abyssinia. Here they met with the very kind of -ception from the Negus. This is called the first draw or may Gratien in the history of Islam and occurred in the fifth year of the froth. Muhammad's mission a d six hundred fifteen these emigrants were soon. Followed by many of their fellow sufferers until the number reached eighty three men and eighteen women. Chapter three. Astor three years of constant. But quite struggle only, thirty followers were secular an important change now occurred in relations of the profit with the citizens of mecca his compatriots had begun to doubt Hussein ity thinking him crazy or possessed by an evil spirit. Hitherto he preached quietly and unobstrusive -ly he noticed that it to appeal publicly to the meccas requesting them to abandon their idolatry for this hearing gathering on a neighbouring hill, and they're spoke to them of their folly in the site of a law in worshiping pieces of stone, which they called their gods invited them to abandon their old imperious, worship and adopt. The face of love truth, and purity he warned them off the fate that had overtaken past races. Who had not heeded the preaching a former prophets, but the gathering depart without listening to the warning given them by the profit. Having thus failed to do. This fellow citizens to listen to him hit turned his attention to the strangers arriving in the city on commerce or pilgrimage, but the garage made attempt to frustrate his efforts. They hastened themselves to meet the strangers. I on different routes to warn them against holding any communication with the prophet whom they were presented as dangerous magician. When the pilgrims or traders return to their homes. They carried with them. The news of the event of the blood preacher who was inviting the air ABS loudly and the risk of his own life to abandon the worship of their dear idols now, the prophet and his followers became subject to some persecution, and indignity. The hostile Karaj prevent the profit from offering his Breyer's at the state house on the ball. They pursued him wherever he went the covered him and his disappointed with Doric and full when engaged in their devotion. They scattered thorns the places which for can did for devotion and meditation emits all these trials the providence not waiver. He was full of confidence in his mission it on several occasion who was put in imminent danger of losing his life. This time homes all the youngest son of optimum dollar adopted. Islam hums was a man of distinguished bravery. An intrepid warrior generous end true who ROY ZIM earned for him. The title of the lion of a law. He became a devoted Adaren of Islam and ever Lostis live in the costs the product continued preaching to the Arabs in the most gentle and reasonable manner. He called the people accustomed to inequality wrongdoings to evanger, their abominations in burning words, which excited the hearts of his hearers. He wanted them of the punishment which ally inflicted upon the engine tribes of odd and the mood who had obscenely disobey the teachings of a laws nasty to them. He adjoured them by the wonderful sides of nature by. The noonday brightness by the night when it spreads fail but day when appears in glory to listen to his warning before a similar destruction befell them. His spoke to them all day on the reckoning when their deeds in this world will be weighed for the tunnel judge when the children who had been buried alive. We'll be asked for what the crime they were put to death. Almighty, a set. They wonder that there has come to them a Warner from among themselves. So the disbelieve or say, this is a strange thing when we are dead and have become dust, shall we be restricted that is a far return. We know that which the earth takes of them the dead bodies. And with us is a book preserved. Name, but they have denied the truth when it has come to them. So they are confused date cannot different shade between right wrong has not looked as having a boss them. How we have made it an adorned it. And there are no red Senate and the earth with spread it out and said there on mountain standing firm at has produced the rain every kind of lovely growth or plans an inside and a reminder for every slave turning to law the one who believes in and performs deeds of his obedience. And always that his harden, and we send down blessed water from the sky that we produce there with gardens grain every kind of harvests that are read and tall date homes with ranged clusters provision for a law slaves, and we give live there with Adele. Hedlund thus will be the restriction of the dead denied before them. These pagans of Maka denied you. Oh, ho mud. The people of Noah and the dwellers of Ross and the psalm mood and odd and Faeroe and the brethren of lot and the dwellers of the wood and the people bucks every one of them denied their centers. So my threat took effect chapter fifteen I to to fourteen occur on. Almighty, a law also declared all praises in things beach, a law who alone created the heavens and the earth and originated the darkness and the light yet. Those who disbelieve hold others as equal their Lord. He it is who has created you from clay, and that has decreed a state term for you to die. And there is with him another determined term for you to be respected yet, you Dowd in the rest wreck Shen, and he is a law to be worshipped alone in the heavens and on the earth. He knows what you conceal and what veal and he knows what you earn either. Good or bad at never on. I out or signed comes to them from the pros Avidan lessons signs revelations of their Lord. But that they have been turning away from it. Indeed. Rejected the truce when it came to them. But there will come to them the news of that the torment which they used mock at have they not seen how many generation before them. We have destroyed whom we had established on the earth such as we have not established you and we poured out on them rain from the sky in abundance and made the rivers flow under them yet. We destroyed them for their sins and created Astor them other generations chapter six I one to six all on. Chapter five. The hostal garage furious at the escape of the victim's stunned deputes to the king of Edison. Lia to request him to deliver up the refugees that they might be put to death for during their old religion and embracing new one the king summoned the poor fugitives an inquired of them. What was the religion which they had adopted in prevalence through their old faith? Jaafar son of avocado and brother of Ali acted a spokes men for the examples his focus. Oh king. We were plunged in the death of ignoring and prepares them. We adored idols. We lived in chesting, and we aid bodies and respect abominations. We disregarded every feeling of humanity and sends of duty towards or neighbors, and we knew no law, but that of the strong when all law raced among as a man of who Spar truthfulness honesty, and purity we were aware he called us to prove the unity of a law and thought to associated nothing with him. If a betas the worship of idols and enjoined us to speak the truth to be faithful to or trusts to be merciful. And to regard the rights of neighbors. He forbade is the speak evil, the worship of Allah and not to return to the worship of idols of what and stone and to obstain from evil to offer prayers to give Elms to observe the fast. We have believed in him. We have accepted his teachings and his injunctions to worship alone and to associate nothing with him hens. Our people have persecuted us trying to make us forego the worship of a law and return to the worship of idols of wood and stone in other bomb nations. They have door chewed us engineered us until finding safety among them. We have come to your kingdom trusting you will give us protection against their persecution. After hearing the above speech. The hospitable. King ordered deputees to return to their people in safety and not to interfere with their fugitives. Thus the emigrants passed the period of exile in peace and comfort, while the followers of the profits out safety in foreign lands against persecution of their people. He continued his warnings to the Karaj more strenuously than ever again. They came to him with offers of riches and honour which he firmly neutrally refused, but they mocked at him and urged him for miracles to prove his mission. He used to answer a law has not sent me to work wonders, he has sent me to preach to you. Thus disclaiming all power of wonder working the prophet of rest at the truth of his divine mission upon his wise teachings he addressed himself to the inner consciousness of men to his common sense and to his own better judgement. Say oh Muhammad. I am only a human being like you. It is inspired in me that your law is one Ila therefore take the straight path to him with true fate and Abedian to him and seek forgiveness of him and woe to almost retain polytheists by GAN's idolaters and disbelievers in the one of all those who worship others among with a look or set up rivals or partners to Awal chapter forty one for six occur on. Despite all the exhorting of the prophet, the garage resistant in asking him for sign the insisted that unless some sign be sent down to him for his Lord. They would not believe the disbelievers used to ask. What has Muhammad nuts being seen with miracles like previous profits? The prophet replied because miracles had proved inadequate to convince Noah was send with signs and with what effect where was the loss. Strive of the moot. They had refused to receive the preaching of the prophet. Sully unless you showed them a sign and cost the rock bring forth a living Campbell. He did what they asked in scorn. They cut the camel feed. And then during the profitable fill his threats of judgement were found dead in their beds. The next morning stricken by the angel. Lourdes. There are some seventeen places in the core on in which the prophet Mahmud is challenged to work assign, and he answered them all to the same or similar affect a law has the power working miracles and has not been delivered. There were greater miracles in nature than any which could be brought outside of it. And the Koran was a great everlasting miracle the Koran which the profit used to assert to the display levers as a book of blessings, which is a warning for the whole world. It is complete guidance and explains everything necessary it is a reminder of what is imprinted on human nature and free from every discrepancy and from error and falsehood. It is a book of true guidance and a light to all. Asked to the sacred idols so much honored and steamed by the pag Arabs, the profit openly resided, the are, but names which have named you and your fathers for which a law has sent down authority chapter. Fifty three I twenty three occur on. When the prophet spoke reproach vally of the sacred guts of the garage the letter redoubled their persecution. But the profit nevertheless continued his preaching undoubted, but has styling of his enemies are by their bitter persecution of him. And despite all position and increased persecution the new faith gamed ground the national fair at or caught near mecca attracted many desert Madrid. And trading citizens of distant towns, these listened to the teachings of the prophet to his admonitions and do his denunciation of their sacred idols and of their superstitions. They carried back all they had heard to their distant homes. And thus the advent of the profit was made known to almost all parts of the peninsula. The mechanism. However were more than ever furious at the profits increasing preaching against the religion. They ask his uncle Abu type to stop him. But he could not do anything. As the profit persisted. His ardent denunciations against their on gutless impliedly. They turned him out from the capo where he used to sit and preach and subsequently went in a buddy to Dali the arched. The venerable chief to prevent his nephew from abusing their gods any longer or uterus. Any ill words against their ancestors. They warned without that. If he would not do that he would be excluded from the communion of his people and driven to side with Muhammad. The matter would then be settled by fight onto one of the two parties were exterminated. I will neither wish to separate himself from his people nor forsake his nephew for the idolators to revenge themselves upon his spoke to the prophet, very softening and backed him to abandon his affair. To the suggestion. The profit firmly replied, oh, my uncle if they placed the sun in my right hand and the moon in my left hand to cause me to renounce my task verily I would not deserve their form until a law mate manifest his cause. Or perished in the attempt. The prophet overcome. By the thought that his uncle and protector was willing to desert him turn to depart. But I would have called him loudly to come back. And he came say, whatever you please four by the Lord, I shall not desert you ever. Chapter six the crush again attempted in faint to cause ob- ended his nephew the federal chief declared his intention to protect his nephew against any Manet or violence. He appealed to the sense of honor of the two families of the body hushing and the bunny metallic both families being kinsmen of the profit to protect their member from falling affecting to the hatred of rival parties. All the members of the two families. Notably responded to the appeal of ability except up real help. One of the prophets on goals took part with persecutors during this period. Oman Elka adopted Islam in him, the new faith gain valuable Dern at an important factor in the future development and propagation of Islam hitherto. He had been violent poster of the prophet and bitter enemy of Islam. His conversion is set to have been worked by the miraculous effect on his mind of a Sarah of the Koran which his sister was reading in her house where he had gone with the intention of killing her for adopting slum, thus the party of the prophet had been strengthened by the conversation by his uncle homes up a man of great valour and merit. And of Abu Bacher, an Omar. Both men of great energy and reputation the Muslims now ventured to perform their devotion in public. Alarmed the bowl part, which the prophet his followers were not able to assume roused by the return of the deputies from Abyssinia and the announcement of their unsuccessful mission. The Karaz determined to check by Disip blow any further progress of Islam towards the end in the seventh year of the mission. They made a solemn Cavanna against the descendant of hushing and Dahlie engaging themselves to contract no marriage with any of them and to have no communication with them. Upon this. The garage became divided into two factions and the two families of hush human phthalate all repaired to Abu dollop as their chief. Upolu hub the profits. On-call how ever out of his inventory hatred of his nephew at his doctrine? When over the opposite party whose chief was opposite of fan, even heart of the family of Maya. The persecuted party Muslims as well as idolators betoken themselves to divall on the eastern skirts mecca they lift in this defensive position for three years the provisions which they had carried with them were soon exhausted. Probably they would have entirely perished. But for the sympathy and occasional help receive from less Goto competitor's towards the beginning of the tenth year of the mission for consultation was concluded between the Koran and the two families of Husham an upgrade MacAulay through the intermediation of sham even Omar and beer Eben. Abu. Area. Thus the alliance against the two family was abolished, and they were able to return to mecca. During the period, the prophet and his Kins people passed in their defensive position if some may no progress outside, but in the sacred months when violence was considered sacrilege the prophet used to come out of his temporary prison to Islam to the pilgrims in the following year. Both dollop in Khudzha died. Thus the prophet lost in valley. The kind guardian of his youth who had hitherto protected him against his enemies and in Caniggia his most end courageous companion. She was ever his angel of hope and consolation. The prophet weighed down but loss of his enable protect her his beloved wife without hope of turning the garage phone idolatry with a saddened heart yet full of trust. Resolve to exercise his ministry in some over field. He chose Steve a town about sixty miles east of mecca where he went accompanied by faithful servants Zahid the tribe of talkies who were the inhabitants of Taif received from Hamad, very coldly. However, his stay there for one month. So the more considerate and better sort of men treated him with a little respect the slaves in common. People refused to listen to St. Ching's. They were outrageously indignant at his invitation to abandon the gods. They worshiped with such freedom of morals and lightness of heart at length. They rose against him and bringing him to the wall of the city obliged him to depart and return to mecca. The repose greatly discourages followers. However, the province boldly continued to preach to the public assemblies the pilgrimage in game. Several new converts among whom were six of the city of ya threat later called Medina of the Jewish tribe of cash rich when these Yatra beats returned home. They spread the news among their people that prophet had Reisen among the air ABS who was to call them to a law and put an end to their inquiries and the twelfth year of his mission the profit made his night journey from mecca to Yere Selam. And then to have been his journey known in history as Mirage or ascension was real bodily one and not only a vision. It was at this time that a low order the Muslims to pray. The five daily prayers almighty alot had said. Glorified and exalted be he of all evil the associate with him who took his slave mama for a journey by night from all must Geeta haram or at Maka to the farthest mosque in Jerusalem. The neighborhood where all we have blessed. Order that we might show him of our, Bruce, evidences lessons and signs very early. His the all here the all sear chapter seventeen. I one CoR on. Chapter seven. A bus even mullet reported that Molly even saw said that almost messenger described them his night journeys saying while I was lowing in a hut team or a hitter. Suddenly someone come to me and cut my buddy open from here to here. I ask all jerus- who was by my site. What does he mean? He said it means from his throat to his public area or said from the top of the chest. The profit further said he then took out my heart that gold tray of believe was brought to me, and my heart was washed and was field with believe, and then return to its original place, then a wide animal which was smaller than a mule and bigger than a donkey was brought to me on this aisle. Jude ask was it in the Barat. Oh homes. I replied in the verminous. The prophet said the animal step was still white that it reached the farthest point within the reach of the animals site. I was carried on it. And Gabriel said out with me till we reach the nearest heaven. When he asked for the gate to be opened. It was asked who is it? Gabriel answered Gabriel. It was asked who was the company you Gabriel replied Muhammad. It was asked has Muhammed been called Gabriel replied in the Verma tive that it was said he is welcomed wouldn't excellent. Visit his the gate was open. And what I went over the I haven- I saw Adam there. Gabriel set to me. This is your father, Adam behavior. Greetings. So I greeted him. And he returned the greeting to me and said you are welcomed. Oh, pious son and pious prophet, then Gabrielle ascended with me till reached the second heaven Gabriel asked for the gate to open. It was uh CT who is it get real answered Gabriel. It was asked who was the company you. Gabriel replied, mama. It was asked has he been called Gabriel answer in the Verma tive than it was said he is welcomed what an excellent visit. Who's this? The gate was open. When I went over the second heaven here, I saw John or Yahoo. And Jesus or ISA who were cousins of each other. Garrels set to me. These are John Jesus, pay them your greetings. So I greeted them and both of them return. Mike readings to me and said you are welcomed oh pie rather and pious profit than Gabriel ascended with me to the third heaven and ask for gate to open. It was asked who is it and Gabrielle replied Gabriel. It was asked who was accompany you. Gabrielle replied Muhammad. It was asked has he been called Gabrielle replied in the verminous than it was said his welcomed what an excellent visit his is the gate was open. And when I went over the third heaven there, I saw just south or you shoes. Gabriel set to me. This is Joe south. They him your greetings. So he greeted him. And he returned the greetings to me and said, you are welcomed oh pies, brother and pious profit, then Gabrielle ascended with me to the fourth heaven and ask for its gate to be opened. It was asked who is it real replied Jabe real. It was asked who is a company you Gabriel replied Mahama. It was asked has he been called Gabriel. Replied, the verminous. Then it was said his welcomed what an excellent visit his is the gate was open. And when I went over the fourth heaven there so an interest Gabriel sent to me this is bay him your greetings. So I greeted him and return the greetings to me and said, you are welcome. Oh, pious brother and pious profit than Ghraib real ascended with me, the fifth heaven and ask for its gate to be opened. It was asked who is it Gabriel replied Gabriel. It was asked who was accompanying you gave. Brielle replied mutt. It was asked has he been called Gabrielle replied in the Verma tive? Then it was said his welcomed what an excellent visit his. So when I went over the fifty seven there I saw Aaron or her own. Garrow sit to me this Erin, pay your greetings. So I greeted him, and he returned the greetings to me and said, you are welcomed oh pie is brother and pious profit the Gabrielle ascended with me to six heaven and ask for its gate to be opened. It was asked who is it Gabriel replied Gabriel. It was us CT who is accompanying you get real replied Mahomet. It was said he has been called Gabrielle replied in the verminous. It was said his welcomed what an excellent visit his. When I went over the sixth heaven there, I saw mosses Gabriel set to me this mosses bay him your greetings. So I greeted him, and he returned the greetings to me and said, you are welcomed oh pie is brother and pies profit when I left him he wept. Someone asked him. What makes you we must said. I we because after me there has been send as a prophet, a young men whose followers will enter paradise in greater numbers than my followers. Then Gabriel ascended with me to the seventh heaven and ask for its gate to be open. It was asked who isn't Gabriel replied Gabriel. It was uh picked who is accompanying you camera replied Mahama. It was asked has he been called Gabriel replied in the verminous than it said. He is welcomed what an excellent visit his so when I went over the seventh heaven there, so a bre ham. Gabriel stick to me. This is your father pay your greetings to him. So I greeted him, and he returned the greetings to me and said, you are welcome. Oh, pious son and pious profit. That was made to ascend to draw to win the heart or the low tree of the most foundry behold, it's fruits will like the jars of Hajer, and it leaves were as big as the years of elephants. Gabriel said this is the low tree of the utmost and boundary. Behold, there ran for rivers to were hidden and two were visible. I asked what are these two kinds of river? Oh, Abril he replied s for the hidden rivers. They are two rivers in paradise and the visible rivers are the Nile and the youth rates than all by more. The secret house was shown to me and a container full wine and another full of milk and third full of Honey were brought to me, I took the milk. Gabriel remarked this these law religion, which you and your followers are following the prayers were enjoying on me. They were fifty prayers day when I return I passed by mosses who asked me, what have you been ordered to do replied, I have been ordered to offer fifty prayers day, Masa said your followers cannot bear fifty prayers day in by a law. I have tested people. Before you, and I have tried my level best with bunny is roiling vein. Go back to your Lord and ask for reduction to lessen your followers burden. So I went back and allow reduce ten players for me. Then again, I came to mosses, but he repeated the same as he's had said before then again, I went back to all. And he reduced ten more prayers when I came to mosses he said the same. I went back to all. And he ordered me to observe ten prayers day when I came back to Mazas he repeated the same advice. So I went back to a law, and it was ordered to observe five prayers day. When I came back to Moses he said, what have you been ordered a reply. I have been ordered to observe five prayers day. He said your followers cannot beer fear prayers day, and no doubt, I have gotten experience at the people before you, and I have tried my level best with Bonnie's Royal so go back to your Lord and ask for reduction to lessen your followers. I said I have requested so much of my Lord that I feel ashamed, but I am satisfied now and surrender to almost older when I left I heard voice saying I have passed my order and have lessened the burden off my worshipers. Chapter eight. In this year. Twelve men of Yatra of whom ten were the Jewish tribe of drudge and the other two of OSs common to mecca and took an oath of fidelity to the prophet at all Akaba a hill on the north of that city. This oath was called the women's. Not that any women were present this time. But because men was not there by Blick to take up arms in defense of the prophet or his religion it being the same oath. That was afterwards. Exected of the women. This oath was as follows we will not associate anything with a law will not steal nor comet adultery or foreign occasion nor kill or children as the pagan eras used to do when they handed that they would not be able to maintain them nor forged calumnies will obey the prophet in everything that is reasonable, and we will be faithful to him in. Well, and sorrow. When they had solemnly engaged to do all this. The prophet sent one of his disciplines was up even Meyer home with them to teach them, the fundamental doctrines and ceremonies of the religion Musab having arrived at your through by the assistance of those who had been formerly converted gained. Several new converts, particularly aside, even who diet achieve of men of the city and saw even want brings of the tribe of OSs. Islam spread so fast that there was a scars a house that did not have some Muslims in it. The next year being the Turks things on the mission. AD six hundred twenty two was returned from your throat, accompanied by seventy three men and two women of that city who had adopted Islam besides others who were as yet unbelievers on their arrival. These young three beats immediately sent to the prophet an invited him to their city. The profit was not in great need of such as this distance for his opponents had by this time grown so powerful in mecca that it could not stay there much longer without imminent danger. He therefore accepted their proposal and met them one night by appointment at all Koba attended by his uncle a bus who thought he has not than convert wished his nephew. Well, I'll abyss made a speech to those of Yasser wearing he told them. That as the prophet. Muhammad was obliged to quit his native city in seek shelter. Elsewhere. And they had offered him their protection they would do well to deceive him and that if they were not firmly resolve to defend and not to prepare him. They had better declared their minds and let him provide for his safety in some manner upon their professing their sincerity. The profit swore to be faithful to them on condition that they should worship none. But a law of serve the presents of Islam. Obey the profit in all that was right and protect him against all insults. As hardly as they would their wives and families. They then ask him what would be their return if they should happen to be killed in the cost of a law. He answered paradise whereupon. They pledged their faith to him his cost the providence elected twelve. Both men out of their number to act as his delegates. Thus was concluded. The second covenant of all Koba, the yet repeats returned home leaving the profit to arrange for the Judy to their city the profit directed his followers to seek immediate safety at three which the accordingly did about one hundred families silently disappeared from mecca and proceeded to throat where they were received with enthusiasm and much husky tally. Finally, all the disciplines had gone to Yesler. It the profit loan remained mce keeping with him only his young cousin a Lee and his devoted friend Booker. The Mexicans fearing the consequence of this new alliance begun to think seeriously preventing Mahama from escaping to yet threat. They met in all haste after several mildew expedients had been rejected the desire that he should be killed the agreed that one men should be chosen out of every tribe and that each men should strike a blow at him with a sword. So that responsibility of the guilt would arrest equally on all trots. The Bonnie Husham Mohamed own tribe were much in various and therefore would not be able to revenge. Their kinsman death. A number of noble youths were selected for the bloody deed as the night at fans, the assassins posted themselves round, the profits dwelling, they watched all night long waiting to murder Muhamud would he should leave his house of the early dawn. By some the prophet had warned of the danger and he directed Ali to lie down in his place and wrap himself up in his green cloak, which he did the prophet miraculously escaped through the window. And he repaired to the house of Abu Bacher unperceived by door. These in the meantime, looking through crevasse and seeing Ali whom they mistook for Muhammad himself asleep continued watching there until morning. When all your rose, they found themselves to seved the fury of the garage was now unbounded the news that there would be assassins had returned unsuccessful and that Mohammed had escaped roused their whole energy. A prize of a hundred camels was set up on HAMAs. Head narrated Aisha been Abakan the wife of the prophet. I never remembered my parents believing in any religion other than the true religion Islam, and I don't remember a single day passing without or being visited by a Los messenger in the morning and in in the evening when the Muslims were put to rest troubled by the pagans, I will Bucker said out migrating to the land of Abyssinia, and when he reached bark mod, even on Duggan. Ah the chief of the tribe of Cora. Meet him and said Abu Bucker where are you going? Buck reply. My people have turned me out of my country. So I want to wonder on the earth and worship my Lord. Even I've Duggan said, oh Bacher a man like you should not leave his homeland, nor should he be driven out because you help the destitute earned their living, and you keep good relations with your kids and kin how the weak and the poor entertain guests. Generously and help the calamity stricken persons. Therefore, I am your protect her. Go back and worship your Lord. In your town. Chapter nine. So Abu buck return and even a Dougie now accompanied him in the evening, even Dino visited the nobles of rush and said to them. A man like Otto Bacher should not leave his homeland, nor should he be driven out. Do you drive out of men who helps the destitute orange? They're living keeps good relations with his Qin and Qin helps the weak and poor entertain guests. Generously and helps the calamity stricken Parsons, so the people of garage could not refuse even digging as protection, and they said to even Dina let up Walker worship has lowered in his house. He can pray and recite their whatever he likes, but he should not hurt us with it. And should not do it publicly because we are afraid that he may affect our women and children. Even told a Bucker all of that. I will Bucker stayed in that state worshiping his Lord in his house. He did not pray publicly nor did he recite Koran outside his house. Then a thought occurred to Abubakar to build a mosque in front of his house. And there he used to pray and recite the Koran. The women children of the pagans begun to gather around him in great number the used to wonder at him and look at him. Abu Bucker was a man who used to we to botch, and he could not help weeping reciting. The Koran that situation scare the nobles of the packets of garage. So they sent for even a Duggan ah what he came to them. They said we accept your protection of Abu Bacher on condition that he should worship his Lord in his house, but he has filed at the condition, and he has built a mosque in front of his house where he prays an recites the core on publicly. We are not afraid that he may affect or women and children unfavourably so prevent him from that if he likes to confine the worship of his lured to his house, he may do so, but if he insists on doing that openly ask him to release you from your location to protect him for we disliked to break are packed with you. But we deny Booker the right to announce his act publicly. Even digging a win to Walker and said oh a Walker. You know, well, what contract have made on your behalf? Now, you are either to abide by it. Oriels release me from my obligation to protecting you because I do not want the Erebus here that my people have dishonored a contract. I have made on behalf of another man. I will replied I release you from your pack to protect me an pleased with the protection from a law. Aisha's narration continues at that time the profit was in mecca and he sent to the Muslims in a dream. I have been shown your migration place a land of date palm trees between two mountains the to Stony tracks. So some people migrated to Medina and most of those peop-. Who had previously migrated to the land of THEO Pia returned to Medina? I will buck also prepared to leave for Medina. But a Los messenger set him wait for a while. Because I hope that I will be allowed to migrate. Also, I will buck replied, do you? Indeed, expect this let my father, be sacrificed for you. The prophet said. Yes. So Otto Bucker did not migrate for the sake of unless messenger in order to accompany him. He said to camels he possessed with the leaves of some more tree that fell on being struck by stick for four months one day while we were sitting in house at noon, someone said to Bucker this is almost messenger with his head covered coming at a time at which he never used to visit us before Abu bar said may might parents be secretary for him by a law. He has not come at this hour except for great necessity. So I'll list messenger came and asked permission to enter and he was allowed to enter what he entered. He said to Abu Bucker tell everyone was present. With you go away a buck replied there are none. But your family may my father be suck revised for you owe a loss messenger. The prophet said. I has been given permission to migrate. A Walker stead shall I accompany? You may my father be sick revised for you a loss. Messenger. Almost messenger said. Yes, I will Bucker said oh, I'll loss messenger. May my father be secretary for you. Take one of these two camels of mine. Loose messenger. Replied, I will accept it with Cayman. So we prepared the baggage quickly and put some journey food in a leatherback for them. Osma will buck daughter cut a piece from her waist belt and tied the mouth of the leatherback with and for that reason, she was named the aid the owner of the two belts. A-list messenger. Abu buckle reached a cave on the mountain of our and stayed there. For three nights up the law, even Bucker who wasn't intelligent sagacious use used to stay with them overnight. He is to leave them before daybreak. So that in the morning he would be with greyish as if he had spend the night in mecca. He would keep in mind any plot made against them. And when it became dark. He would go and inform them of it. I'll mayor even Hira the free slave of Abu Bakar used to bring the milk sheet of his master Albuquerque to them a little while after nightfall an older to rest, the sheep there. So they always had fresh milk at night, the milk of their sheep and the milk, which they warmed by throwing heated stones in it. Omair even higher would then call the hurt away when it was still dark. He did the same in each of those three nights all messenger. Albuquerque had hired a man from the tribe of Bani odd dial from the family of bunny, even as an expert guide, and he was in alliance with the family of us, even what you me, and he was in the religion of the infidels of garage. The prophet and Abu Bacher trusted him and gave him there to camels and took his promise to bring their two camels to the cave of the mountain of that were in the morning after three nights later, and when they set out a mere even Haida and guide when along with them and the guy lead them along the shore. So hey, a Bihari. Chapter ten. The nephew of Sura Pau even to Shaam said that his father is formed him that he heard short Ohka. It'd been som- saying the messengers of the packets of Koran came to us to clearing but they had assigned for the person who would kill or arrest a loss messenger. And Abu Bucker a reward equal to their blood money while I was sitting in one of the gatherings of my tribe. Bani moons Leauge a man from them came to us and stood up. While we were sitting and said, oh shoot. All. No, I have seen some people far away on the seashore. And I think they are Mohammed and his companions. I to realize that it must have been they. But I said, no, it is not they, but you have seen so and so and so in so whom we saw set out I stayed in the gathering for a while. And then got. Up and left her my home, an ordered my slave girl to get my horse, which was behind the hillock and keep it ready for me. Then I took my spare and left by the back door of my house dragging, the lower end of the spare on the ground in keeping low did I reach my horse mounted and made it galop when I approached them my horse stumbled, and I fell down from it. Then I stood a gold hold of my quiver and took out the divining EROs, and drew lots as to whether I should harm them or not and a lot which I disliked came out. But I reminded my horse and let it glow giving no importance to the divining EROs when I hurt the recitations of the core on by a less messenger. Who did not look hither and fetter while Bacher was doing it often. Suddenly the four lex of my horse sank into the ground up to the niece, and I fell down from it. Then I rebuked it and got up, but could hardly take out. It's four lex from the ground, and what it stood up straight. Again. It's four lex costs dust rise up in the sky like smoke that again, I drew lots the divining EROs and the lot which I disliked came out. So I called upon them to feel secure they stopped an hour amounted, my horse and went to them when I saw how I had been hampered from harming them. It came to my mind that the cost of messenger would become victorious. So I said to them your people have signed a reward equal to blood money for your hint than I told them all the plans, the people of mecca had made concerning them, then I offered them some journey foods and goods. But they refused to take anything and did not ask for anything. But the prophet set to not tell others about us. Then I requested him to write for me, a statement of security and peace. He ordered almere even for Jairo who wrote it from me on parchment and the a list messenger proceeded on his way. So he a boy. No rated Ottawa even Zubaydah I'll list messenger met as buyer in a caravan of Moslem March ins a were returning from sham. As the wire provided a less messenger and Otto Bacher with white clouds to where when the Muslims of Medina heard the new off the departure of Alice messenger from mecca towards Medina. This started going to the Hora every morning. They would wait for him till the heat of the noon force them to return. One day after waiting for a long while they returned home. And when they went through their houses, a Jew climbed up to the roof of one of the forts of his people to look for something and he saw all messenger and his companions dressed in white clothes emerging out of the desert marriage. The Jew could not help shouting at the top of his voice. Oh, you errands. Here is your great men whom you have been waiting for. So all the Muslims rushed to their arms received Allah's messenger on the summit of Hora. The province turned with them to the right and a at the quarters of bunny armor, IBA oath, and this was on Monday in the month of Rabin will one. I will buck or stood up receiving the people while almost messengers set down and kept silent. Some of the onstar who came and had not seen olas messenger before begun greeting upper. But when the sunshine fell on all massacre and will Bucker came forward in shaded him with a sheet only, then the people came to know all less messenger. Olis messenger state was bunny or even out for ten nights, and is to Bush the mosque mosque of Kuba, which was founded on biting. Almost dusted your prayed in it, and then mounted his camel and proceeded on accompanied by the people till his camel now down at the place of the mosque of a listener singer at Medina. Some Muslims used to pray there in those days and that place was a yard for drying dates belonging to sue Heil, shawl, the orphan boys who were under the guardianship of ins Rura. When he's Kimball knelt down. Almost Messager said this place all law willing will be our abiding place Olis' messenger. Then call the two boys and told them to suggest a prize for that yard. So that he might take it as a mosque the two boys said, no, but we will give it as gift oh almost messenger almost messenger than build a mosque there. The prophet himself started hearing on burned bricks for its building and while doing so he was saying this load is better than the load of Kyd bar for it is more pious in sight of a law and pure and better reward -able. He was also saying oh a law. The actual reward is the reward in the hereafter. So stole your mercy on the Unser and the emigrants thus the profit recited, by way of Prevert, the poem of some Muslim poet whose name is unknown to me, even she said, it it does not a court almost messenger resided, a Complete Poetic I other than this one. So he boy. Thus was accomplished. The he draw or the flight of Muhammad s called any rope. Ian annals from which these Lama calendars dates when the prophet Muhammad his companions settled at. Yes, this city change its name and henceforth was called al-medina. I'll know little the illuminated city or more shortly. Medina the city. It is situated about eleven days journey to the north of mecca. And that time it was ruled by to Qatar night. Tribes also an hydro these two tribes, however were constantly quarreling among themselves. It was only about that time. When the prophet announced his mission at mce, the tribes after long years of continuous warfare entered on a period of comparative peace when the prophet settled at Medina, the tribes of OSs and hush Dutch forgot entirely their old fuse, and we're United together in the bond of Islam. They're old divisions were sued effaced and the Unser the helpers of the prophet became the common. Designation of all Medine who had helped the prophet in his costs. Those who emigrated with him from that come received the title of muhajeeden or the immigrants. The private in order to unite both classes in closer bonds established between them a brotherhood which linked them together as children off the same parents with a profit as their guardian. The first step the profit took after his settlement at Medina was to build a mosque for the worship of a law. According to the principles of Islam also houses for the combination of the emigrants were soon erected. Chapter eleven. Medina in its suburb. Where this time habit by three distinct parties, the emigrants the helpers and the juice in order to weld them together into an orderly federation, the prophet granted a charter to the people clearly defining the rights and obliga- Sion's this charter represented the framework of a first Commonwealth organized by the profit. It started thus in the name off the most merciful and compassionate Lord. This charter is given by Muhammad the messenger of Allah to all believers, whether of Greis or Medina and all individuals of whatever origin. We have made common cause with them who shall all constitute one nation. The following are some extracts from the charter the state of peace and war shall become into all Muslims. No one among them shall have the right of concluding peace with or declaring war against the enemies of his core. Religious te the Jews who attached themselves to or Commonwealth shall be protected from all insults and fixations. They shall have an equal right with our people tours assistance and good offices. The juice of the theories branches all other domiciled in Medina shell floor with the Muslims. One comp aside nation they shall practice? The religion as freely as the Muslims, the allies of the Jews shall enjoy the same security and freedom the guilty shall be pursued and punished the juice shawl. Join the Muslims in defending Medina all enemies, the interior of Medina Shelby, a sacred place for all who accept this. Charter all true Muslim show. Holden aboard every men guilty of crime in Justice or disorder. No one shall uphold the culpable, though, he be his nearest kin. After dealing with the interior management of the state the charter concluded as follows all future disputes arising among those who accept this charter Shelby, revert under a law to the prophet. Thus this charter put an end to the state of energy that prevailed among the Arabs constituted the prophet. Mohammed is chief magistrate of the nation. The party of the on source or helpers included. Some Luke warm converts who retain ill-concealed Brit election for idolatry. These were headed by delay. Even by a man with some claims distinction, they extensively joins us loan. But in secret disaffected, they often were a source of considerable danger to the newborn Commonwealth and required. Unceasing watchfulness on the part of the profit. Towards them. He always showed the greatest spacious and for barons, hoping in the end to win them over to the faith which expectations were fully justified by the result. While the death of to live by his party, which were known as the party of the moon. Affi keen or the hypocrites disappeared? The juice who considered the third party of the Madden. It's were however, the most serious element of danger. No, kindness or generous treatment on the part of the prophet would seem to satisfy them. They soon broke off and range themselves with the enemies of the new face. They did not have to declare openly that they pervert idolatry with its attendant evils to the faith of Islam, thus the prophet hat to keep an eye on his enemies outside Medina on the one hand. And those within the city on the other. The Meccan to had sworn. Muhammad's death were well acquainted. Thanks to the party of the hypocrites and the Jews at Medina with the real forces of the Muslims. They also knew that the Jews had accepted. Muhammad's alliance only from motive of temporary expedients, and that they would break away from him to join the idolaters as soon as the latter showed themselves in the vicinity of Medina the safety of the state required. The process corruption on the traders who were sick critically giving information to the common enemy about six men were executed for high treason of this nature. Towards the second year of the he draw the idolaters of mecca begun a series of hostile acts against the Muslim off Medina. They sent men in parties to commit depredations on the fruit. Trees of the Muslims of Medina and to carry away their flocks now came the moment of severe strive to his loan. It became the duty of the profit to take serious measures to guard against any blood rising from within or a sudden attack from without. Hip put Medina in a stayed off military discipline. He had to send Friedkin reconnoitering parties to guard against any sudden onslaught no sooner did the prophet organize his state than a larger well equipped army of the MAC was a field. A force constituent. Ing of one thousand men marched under JAL a great enemy of the slum towards Medina to attack the city the Muslims receive timely notice of their enemies intention, a buddy of three hundred DARREN'S of whom two thirds were citizens of Medina was gathered to forestall idolaters by occupying. The valley of butter situated near the sea between Makah admitting when the prophet saw the army of the in villes approaching the valley, he prayed that the little band of Muslims might not be destroyed. The army of the MacIntosh advanced into the open space, which separated the Muslims from the idolaters, according to Arab usage. The battle was begun by simple combat's, the engagement that become channel the results of the battle was that the meccas were driven back with great loss. Several of their cheese were slain, including Joan a large number of idolaters remain prisoners in the hands of the Muslims. They were contrary to all use h and traditions of the Arabs to read it with the greatest to manage the profit gave strict orders that sympathy should be shown to them in their misfortune, and that they should be treated with kindness. These instructions were faithfully abate by the Muslims to whose care the prisoners were confided. Dealing with this even Sir William we're it has booked live of Muhammed quotes, one of the prisoners saying blessing be on the men of Medina. They made as right while they themselves walked they gave us we and Brett to eat where there was little of it contenting themselves with dates almighty, a loss set and a low has already made you victorious at Bader when you were a weak little force, so fear Olaf much abstain from all kinds of sins and evil deeds, which he has forbidden and love Allama JR. Performs all kinds of good deeds, which he has ordained that you may be grateful. Remember when Muhammad set to the believers is it not enough for you that your Lord should help you with three thousand angel send down. Yes. If you hold onto patience and piety and the enemy comes rushing at you. Your Lord will help you with five thousand angels having marks of distinction. Almost made it not. But as a message of good news for you. And as an insurance to our heart, and there is no victory except from a LA the almighty, the all wise that he might cut off a part of those who disbelieve or expose them to infamy. So that they retire for strayed. It chapter three I one hundred twenty three to one hundred twenty seven Kurt on. Chapter twelve the remarkable circumstances, which led to the victory of butter and results which followed from it made a deep impression on the minds of the Muslims. The angel of the heaven had battled on their side against their enemies. The division of the spoils created some dissensions between the Muslim warriors for the moment. The profit divided equally among all subsequently a Koran revelation laid down a rule for future divisions. The spoils. According to this rule, a fifth was reserved for the public treasury for the support of the poor and indigent while the distribution of the remaining four fifths was left to the description of the chief of the state. The next battle between the garage and the Muslims was the battle of hill about four miles to the north of Medina the idolaters to revenge. Their loss at butter made tremendous preparation for new attack upon the Muslims. They collected an army three thousand strong men of whom seven hundred were armed with coats of mail and two hundred horses. These forces advanced under the conduct of opposite view on and encamped at village six miles from Medina where they gave themselves up to spoiling the fields and flocks of the Mets. The prophet be much inferior to his enemies number at first determined to keep himself within the town and to receive them there but afterwards the advise of some of his companions prevailing. He marched out against them. At the head of one thousand men of whom one hundred were armed with coats of mail, but he had no more than one horse besides his own it his whole army with these forces. He halted at mount who'd he was soon abandoned by Abdulah, even by the leader of the hypocrites with three hundreds of his followers. Thus the small force of the profit was reduced to seven hundred. At mount of who the Muslim troops passed the night and the morning after offering their prayers the advanced into the plane the profit contrive to have the hill has back and the better to secure his men from being rounded place, fifty archers on the height in the wear behind the troops gave them strict orders, not to leave their posts. Whatever might happen. When they came to engage. The prophet had superiority at first but afterwards, his Archer left their position for the sake of plunder thus allowing the enemy to attack the Muslims in the fear, and surround them the profit lost the day and very nearly lost his life. It was struck down by shower stones and wounded in the face by two EROs and one of his frontier was broken of the Muslims. Seventy men were killed among whom was the profits on goal hums zone. Of the infidels. Twenty two men were lost. The Koresh were too exhausted to follow up their advantage, either by attacking Medina or by driving the Muslims from the heights of ood. They retreated from the med- into territories after Babar's -ly, mutilating the courses of their dead enemies, almighty alot set. So do not become weak against your enemy, nor be sad. And you will be superior in victory. If you are indeed true believers, if a wound and killing has stuck to be sure a similar wound and killing has stuck the others. And so are the days good and not so good. We gift amend by turns that along may test those who believe and that he may take mortars from among you and a low likes not dissolve mean. And that a law may task or purify the believers from sins and destroy the disbelievers. Do you think that you will enter paradise before a low test those of you who fought in his cause? And also tests those who are patient. You did indeed wish for death before you meant it. Now, you have seen it openly with your own eyes chapter three I one hundred thirty nine to one hundred and forty three Ulker on. Although the exulted also said we shall cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve because they joined others in worship with a law for which he has sent no authority there about will be the fire, and how evil is the abode of the Dalai mean and a lot did indeed fulfill his promise to you when you were killing them with his permission until the moment you lost your corrige and fell to disputing about the older. And it's so Baid after showed you which you love. Among you are some that desire this world and some that desire the hereafter than he made you flee from your enemy, and he might test you. But surely, he forgave you and allies most gracious to the believers and remember when you ran away, truthfully. Without even costing a side glance at anyone and the messenger was in your rare calling you back there a lot give you one distrust after another by way of required to teach you not to grieve for that which had escaped you nor that which had befallen you and a law is well aware of all that you do then after the distress his sent down security for you slumber, overtook a party view while another party was thinking about themselves as how to save their own. Sales ignoring the others and the profit and thought wrongly a law the thought of ignoring they said have we any part in the affair say you Hon? Indeed, the affair belongs wholly to law. They hide within themselves. What they dare not reveal to you saying if we had anything to do with the affair. None of us would have been killed here say if you had remained in your home's those for whom death was decree with certainly have gone forth to the place of death. But that a low my test, what is in your rust, and to he's detest to purify to get rid of that which was in the hearts and a law is all Noar of what is in your breast chapter three. I one hundred fifty one to one hundred fifty four Kerr on. No, rated al-basra even Z. The president appointed even Jubair as the commander of the inventory men were archers who were fifty on the day of the battle who he instructed them stick to your place and don't leave it, even if you see Burt snatching us till I send for you. And if you see that we have to feed it, the infidels and made them flee, even then you should not leave your place ally. Send for you, then the infidels were defeated, but a law. I saw the women fleeing lifting the clothes revealing their leg Bengals in their legs. So the companions of Deloitte, Eben jabbar's said the booty, oh, people the booty your companions have become victorious. What are you waiting for now up to your buyer set? Have you forgotten what a less messenger set to they replied? But a lot we will go to the people and collector share from the war booty. But would they went to them? They were forced to turn back to feed it and that time almost messenger in their rare was calling them back only twelve men remained with the prophet and the infidels Martinez. Seventy men from us the prophet and his companions cost the Pegasus to lose one hundred and forty men seventy of whom were captured and seventy were killed than obvious to ask three times. Is Muhammad present among these people the prophet older his companions not to answer him that he asks three times is even cool Hoffa present most these people he asked again three times is even a hook up president of Mon these people he then returned to his companions and said as for these men they have been killed whom are could not control himself and said to fill you told a lie by a law. Oh, enemy of a law. All those you have mentioned our allies and the thing which will make you unhappy still there was fan said or victory today. Compensates for yours in the battle of butter and in war. The victory is always undecided and shared interns by the Belgians, you will find some of your killed men mutilated, but I did not urge my men. To do. So yet, I do not feel sorry for their deed after that. His started residing cheerfully. Oh who ball be superior on that the prophet said to his companions? What don't you answer him back? They said oh alost messenger. What shall we say? He said stay a is higher and more sublime than opposite him said, we have the idol of ozone, and you have no the prophet set to his companions. Why don't you answer him back? They asked oh a less messenger. What shall we say? He said say a lot or helper, and you have no helper. So i'll. Chapter thirteen. The moral affect of this. Disastrous battle was such as to encourage some neighboring no metrics to make flory's up on the Madinat. Territories. But most of these were repel the Jews also were not slow to involve in the trouble. The prophet and his followers. They tried to create disaffection among his people and slender him and his dairies. They miss pronounce the words of the core on so as to give them offensive, meaning they also cost they're poets who were superior in culture and intelligence she used their influence to so sedition among the Muslims one of their distinguished poets. Call Cobb of the bunny on Nigeria spare no efforts in publicly deploring the ill success of the idolaters after their defected butter. By his setire 's against the prophet at his decibels at his allergies on the meccas who had fallen butter cop succeeded in exciting the garage to that Francey offense, which broke out at he then returned to Medina where he continued to tech the profit and the Muslims men and women in terms of the most obscene character, though, he belonged to the tribe of bunny deer which had entered into the compact with the Muslims and pledge it sell both for the internal and external safety on the state he openly directed his acts against the Commonwealth of which he was a member. Another ju solemn by name of the same tribe behaved equally fiercely and bitterly against the Muslims. He lived with a party of his strive at Kyd bar a village five days journey north west of Medina. He made every effort to excite the neighboring Arab tribes against the Muslim the Muslim Commonwealth with the objective. Securing safety among the community passed a sentence of outlawry upon Cobb and Salone the members of another Jewish Dr namely bunny guy, gall were sentenced to expulsion from the mandate territory for having openly and knowingly infringed. The terms of the compact it was necessary to put an end to their hostal actions of the sake of maintaining peace and security. The prophet had to go to their headquarters where he required them to enter definitively into the Muslim Commonwealth by embracing slum or to leave Medina to. This they replied in the most offensive terms. You have had a quarrel with men ignoring of the art of war if you are desirous of having any dealing with us. We'll show you that. We are men they then shut themselves up in their fortress and sent the prophet and his authority at DeVine's the Muslims decided to reduce them and late siege to the fortress without loss of time after fief teen days, they surrendered so the Muslims that I intended to inflict some severe punishment on them. They contend it themselves by banishing the bunny guide. The buddy dear had now paved in the same way as funny guy in all the had likewise knowingly in publicly does regard it at the terms of the charter the prophet, send them a message similar to the which was sent to their brethren the going goal, then relying on the assistance of hypocrites party return for a divine reply. After a siege of fifteen days. They sued for terms the Muslims renewed their previous offer and the Jews of unknown. Dear chose to execute Medina. They were allowed to take with them all their movable property with the exception of their arms before leaving Medina. They destroyed all the dwellings in movable property and arms, which they could not carry away with them. We're just abused by the prophet with the consent of the Unser in the immigrant. A principal was henceforth adopted that any acquisition not made in actual warfare should belong to that state, and that its disposal should be left to the description of the ruling authorities almighty, a set, and there is also share in this booty for the poor immigrants who were expelled from their homes and their property seeking bounties from a law and to please him and helping alot helping. His religion and his messenger. Hum, mud such are. Indeed, the truthful to what we say and those who before them had homes in all Medina and had adopted the faith love those who emigrate to them and have no jealousy in their breast for that, which they have been given from the booty of bunny Unna deer and give them emigrants preference over themselves. Even though they were in need if that and who so ever is safe from his own covetousness such are they who will be successful chapter fifty nine I eight to nine Koran. The expulsion of the bunny nuttier took place in the fourth year of the draw the remaining portion of this year and the early part of the next were passed in repressing, the hostile attempts of the nomadic tribes against the Muslims and inflicting punishment for various murderous forays on the Medine. Territories of this nature was the expedition against the Christian Arabs of demont agenda. A place about seven days Giordani to the south of Damascus who had stopped the Mets traffic with Syria and even threaten a raid. Upon medina. These Morodor's however fled on the approach of the Muslims and the prophet returned to Medina after concluding a treaty with neighbouring cheese to whom he grunted permission of pest Raj in the Medina. Territories in the same year, the enemies of slow made every possible attempt to stir up the tribes against the Muslim the Jews. Also active if hidden part of those intrigues an army of ten thousand well equipped men marched towards Medina under the command of opposite view on the income to near mount who a few miles away from the city, the Muslims could gather only army three thousand men seeing their invariably numbers on the one hand and the turbulence of the hypocrites within the town on the other. They preferred to remain on the defensive they dug a deep mode round the unprotected quarters of Medina and encamped outside the city with a trench in front of them. They relied for safety of the other side upon their allies the Corre who possessed several fortress at a short distance towards the south and were found by the compact was as the Muslims against any raiders. These Jews however were induced by the dollars to via. Their pledge to join the garage as these Jews were acquainted with hypocrites within the walls of the city were waiting for an opportunity to play their part. The situation of the Muslims was most dangerous the siege. Had already lasted for twenty days. The enemy made great efforts to cross the trench. But every attempt was fiercely repulsed by the small Muslim force does union was now rive in the midst of the besieging army. Their horses were Parisian fast and provisions were becoming less every day during the night, a storm of win in rain cost there tends to be overthrown and their lights extinguished. I was feeling in the majority of his army fled and the rest refused with grows on the Muslims. So they were satisfied with the failure of their enemies. Could not help thinking that the victory was unsatisfactory so long as the Greige who had violated their sworn pledge remained so near. The juice might at any time surprise Medina from their side the Muslims felt it their duty to demand an explanation of the violation of the pledge. This was yearly refused consistently. The Jews were besieged and compelled to surrender at discretion. They only ask that their punishment should be left to the judgment of Iban want. The prince of the tribe of us this chief who is a fierce soldier had been wounded in the attack and indeed died of his Rune the following day. Infuriated by the treacherous conduct of the bunny Groza, he gave judgment that the fighting men should be death. And that the women and children should become the slaves of the Muslims. The sentence was carried into execution. Chapter fourteen. It was about this time that the profit granted to the moans of the ministry of Saint Catharine near Mount Sinai, his liberal charter by which secured for the Christians, noble and generous privileges immunities, he undertook himself, an enjoined his followers to protect the Christians to defend their churches and the residences of their priests and to guard them from all injuries. They were not to be unfairly taxed no Bishop was to be driven out of his diocese. Christian was to be forced to reject his religion. No mom was to be expelled from his Mona's Trie. Nope. Pilgrim was to be stopped from his pilgrimage, nor were the Christian churches to be pulled down for the sake of building mosques or houses for the Muslims. Christian women Mary to Muslims were to enjoy their own religion and not to be subjected to compulsion. Or annoyance of any kind. If the Christians should stand in need of assistance for the repair of the churches or monasteries or any other matter pertaining to their religion the Muslims were to assist them. This was not to be considered supporting their religion. But a simply rendering them assistance in special circumstances should the Muslims be engaged in stilling his without site. Christians Christian resident among the Muslims should be treated with contempt on account of his creed. The provost declared that any Muslim violating any clause of the charter should be regarded as a transgressor of a loss amendments violator of his testament and glad full of his face. Six years had already elapsed since the profit has MAC and follower had fled from the birthplace. Their hearts begun to year for their homes and for their sacred house the Cupo as the season of the pilgrimage approached the prophet announced his intention to visit the holy center at Marras voices of his disciples responded to the call. Preparations were soon made for the journey to mecca the prophet accompanied by seven or eight hundred Muslims arrogance, and and source all totally on armed said out on the pilgrimage the garage who were still full of animus towards the Muslim gathered a large army to prevent them from entering mecca and maltreated, the envoy whom the prophet had sent to us permission to visit the holy places after much difficulty attreaty ways concluded by which it was agreed that all styles should seize for ten years that anyone coming from the Karaj to the profit without the permission of the guardian or chief should be given back to the idolaters the any Muslim person's going over to the Mackin should not be surrendered that any tribe desires of entering into a alliance, either the cry or with the Muslims should be at a. Liberty to do. So without disputes that the Muslims should go back to Medina on the present occasion. And stop in Vanson further that they should be permitted in the following year to visit mecca and to remain there for three days with the army. They used on journeys, namely, their skin matures sheets. The treaty of diabetes. This ended the prophet returned with his people to Medina. About this time. It was revealed to the prophet that has mission should be universal. He dispatched several invoice to invite the neighboring severity to Islam. The embassy to the king of Persia caused throws Parviz was received with disdain and continually. He was harshly amazed at the boldness of the mecca fugitives in addressing him on terms of equality. He was so enraged that he tore up into pieces. The prophets letter of invitation to a slum and dismissed the envoy from his presence with great contempt. When the province received information on this treatment, he calmly observed thus will the empire, of course, Roze be torn to pieces the embassy to Heraclitus the emperor of the Romans was received much, more, politely and Rivera chilly. He treated the embassador with great respect and send the prophet agrees. Use reply to his message another envoy was sent to an era price of the guessing eat try a Christian few Detorri of Iraq is this prince instead of receiving the invoice with any respect cruelly murdered him this act cost great concern ish among the Muslims who considered it as an outreach of international. Allegations narrated delay even a bus up associate even heart informed me that Herat Cleese had sent a enjoyed him. While he had been accompanying caravan from Karachi. There were merchants doing business in Shum Syria Palestine, Lebanon, Jordan at the time when Olis' messenger had a truce with obvious to John and crush in feels so Abu Sufian his companions went to Iraq lease at Ilia or Jerusalem. Her reckless called them in the court, and he had all the senior room dignitries around him he called for his translator who translating Iraq. Lease question set to them who among you is closely related to that men who claims to be a prophet a Sufian replied, I am the nearest relative to him amongst the group. Her Requiest stay bring him close to me and make his companion stand behind him a Pacific edit correctly, Stolt his translator to tell me companions that. He wanted to put some question to me regarding that man or the profit. And if I told a lie. They should contract me by a low. I not being afraid of my companions leveling me a lawyer. I would have not have spoken the truth about the profit. I was Vince narration continues the first question he asked me about him was what is his family stages? Among you replied, he belongs to good noble family. Amongst us reckless further us CT has anybody mung you ever claimed the same to be a profit before him are plight. No. He said was anybody monks is incest as king replied, no correctly is asked do the nobles or the poor follow him. I replied as the poor who follow him. He said or his followers increasing or decreasing day by day. Our replied, they are increasing. He then asked. Does anybody most those who embrace his religion become displeased and renounce the religion afterwards? I replied, no correctly said have you ever accused him of telling lies before his claim to be a prophet? I replied. No, a lease said does he breaks his promises? I replied, no. We are a truce with him. But we do not know what he will do when it I could not find what unity to say anything against him. Except that correctly is asked have you ever had a war with him replied? Yes. Then he said, what was the outcome of the battles replied, sometimes he was Fiqh Doria's in some sometimes we erect said what does he order you to do? I said he tells us to worship a law and alone and not to worship anything along with him. And to renounce all that are in Suster said said, he odor us to pray to speak the truth to be chaste and to keep good relations with other kids and Kim. Chapter fifteen. Correctly asked the term Slater to convey to me the following. I ask you about his family, and you'll reply was that he belonged to a very noble family. In fact, all the Mason Gers come from noble families among their respective peoples. I question you, whether anybody else among you claimed such thing your reply was in the negative. If the answer had been in the -firmative, I would have thought that this man was following the previous men statement that I ask you whether anyone of his assessor was a king reply was in the negative, and if it had been in the Verma tive, I would have thought that this man wanted to take back his incestuous kingdom further ask whether he was ever accused of telling lies before he said what he said in your reply was in the negative. So I wondered how a person who does not tell a lie about others could ever tell a lie about a law. I then ask you whether the rich people followed him or the poor you're applying that it was the poor who followed him. And in fact, all the messengers have been followed by this very class of people that I ask you, whether his followers were increasing or decreasing replied that they were increasing and in. In fact, this is the way of true faith till it is complete in all respects. I further ask you whether there was anybody who after embracing his religion became displeased, discarded, his religion. You reply was in the negative. And in fact, this is the sign of true faith, when it's delight enters the hearts and mixed with them completely. I ask you whether he had ever betrayed your replied in the negative, and like wise, the messengers never trade. Then I asked you what he ordered you to do your apply that he ordered you to worship a law and a LA alone and not to worship anything along with him. And for bait you to worship idols and order you to pry to speak the truth and to be chased. If what you have said is true. He will vary sued occupy this place underneath my feet. And I knew it from the scriptures that he was going to appear, but I did not know that would be from. And if I could reach him definitely I would go immediately to meet him. And if I were with him, I would certainly wash his feet. Harare's than ask for the letter addressed by messenger, which had been delivered by Dionne to the governor was wrong. Who forwarded to correctly is to read the contents of the letter were as follows in the name of Allah, the beneficent the merciful. This letter is from HUD, the slave of Allah and his messenger to Iraq Lewis, the ruler of design team. Peace be upon him. Who follows the right pass? Furthermore, I invite you to Sloan, and if you become Muslim you will be safe and allow will double your reward. And if you reject this invitation of slum, you will be committing sin by misguiding your subjects in recite to you a loss statement say oh, mama. Oh, people of scripture, Jews and Christians come to a word that is just between us in you that we worship none. But a low and that we associate no partners with him. And that none of us shall take others as lords besides alot. Then if they turn away say bear witness that we are Muslims opposite fan than edit. When her reckless had finished, his speech and had read the letter. There was a great, Hugh in cry the Royal court, so we turned out of the coach. Court. I told my companions that the question of even become Shah the frosted Mohammed had become so prominent that even the king of bunny Astrada by seventeen was afraid of him. Then I started to become sure that he would be the conqueror in the near future to lay embraced a slum. I'll look guided me to it. The sub narrator added that even tour was the governor of Ilia or Jerusalem and reckless was the head of the Christian of show even tour rated that once while reckless was visiting Ilia or Jerusalem, he got up in the morning with a sad mood, some of his priest. Ask him why he asks in that move directly as was a four tower and trawler he replied at night when I looked at the stores. I saw that the leader of those who practice circumscription had appeared become the conquer. Who are? They who practice. Circumcision the people replied except the Jews. Nobody practices circumcision. So you should not be afraid of them. Just issue. Orders to kill very ju present in the country. While they were discussing it a messenger stunned by the king of gush on to convey, the news of a less messenger. To reckless was brought in having heard the news he ordered the people to go and see whether the messenger of Gazon was circumcised the people after seeing him told correctly is that he was circumcised correctly is than ask him about the Arabs the messenger. Replied Arabs, also practice concision. After hearing that Herat clears remarked that severeignty of the Arabs had appeared her reckless than wrote a letter to his friend in Rome who was as good as reckless as Nola JR. Iraq, less then left for homes, a town in Syria and stayed there till he received the reply of his letter from his friend who agreed with him in his opinion about the emergence of the profit. And the fact that he was a prophet. On that Harare's invited all the heads of the bison teens to assemble in his palace at homes when they assembled he ordered the all the doors of his palace closed that he came out and said oh bizarre teens, if suck says is your desire, and if you see ROY guidance and one your pyre to remain then give a pledge of allegiance to this profit or embrace Islam. On hearing the fuse of Iraq liaise. The people rent words, the gates of the palace like amateurs, but found the doors closed her reckless realized their hatred towards Islam, and when he lost the hope of their embracing Islam. He ordered that they should be brought that in audience when they returned. He said, what was already set was just detest a string of your conviction in have seen it. The people pro-trade it before him and became pleased with him. And this was the end of reckless story in connection with his faith. So high L bahory. In the same year. The Jews of Khyber a strongly fortified territory at a distance of floor days dirty from Medina showed in place the bull hatred towards the Muslims. United by alliance with a tribe of gut fund as well as with other Cauquenes, tribes, the juice of Khyber made serious attempts to form a coalition against the Muslim. The prophet and his DARREN'S were apprised of this movement and immediate measures were taken in order to repress any new attacks upon Medina an expedition of fourteen hundred men was soon prepared to March against bar, the allies of the juice left them to face the war with the Muslims, all alone. The Jews firmly resisted the attacks of the Muslims, but eventually all the fortress had to be surrendered one after the other to their enemies, they prayed for forgiveness, which was accorded to them on certain conditions. Their lands immovable property secured to them together with the free practice of their religion. After subduing bar the Muslims returned to Medina in safety. Before the end of the year it being the seventh year he draw the prophet and his Durance Vilgam selves their armistice with the Karaj to visit the holy all the profit accompanied by two hundred Muslims when to mecca to perform the rights of pilgrimage on this occasion. The Karaj evacuated the city during the three days, which the ceremonies lasted. Chapter sixteen. So really Moore in his book. Life of Muhammad falling three commends on the incident as follows it was surely a strange site, which at this time presented itself at the veil of a site unique in the history of the world. The engine city is for three days evacuated by all inhabitants high and low every house deserted and they retire. The exalt converts many years vanished from the birthplace approach integrate buddy accompanied by their allies revisits, the empty homes of their childhood and within the shored allotted space fulfill the rights off pilgrimage the outside inhabitants, climbing the heights around take refugee under tens or other shelter. Among the hills in glens and clustering on the overhanging peak of Abacus base, then watch the movements of the visitors beneath as the profit at. Their hand they make the circuit of the Cup and rapid possession between SAFA and Marwa anxiously skin. Every figure is perchance. They may recognize among the worshippers some long lost friend relatives. It was a scene rendered only by the throws would you gave birth to Islam in accordance with terms of the treaty. The Muslims left mce the end of three days. Visit these peaceful. Visit was followed by important conversions among the gresh Hulley, even elite known as the sort of a law who before this had been bitter enemy of Islam. And who commended the garage ca Valerie at an honor Eben, all another important character and warrior adopted the new faith. When the prophet his followers returned to Medina. They arranged in expedition to accept what to bution from the prince who had killed the Muslim in. Void a force of three thousand men under the profits adopted sons with send to take reparation from the offending tribe. Hulley even elite was one of the generals chosen for the expedition when they reached their neighborhood of Muto affiliates to the southeast of the debt. See they met with an overwhelming force as errors and Romans who were assembled to oppose them the Muslims. However resolved resolutely to push forward, their courage was of no avail, and they suffered great losses in this battle Zaid and Jaafar a cousin of the prophet and several other notables were killed hully gully by a series of maneuvers succeeded in drawing off the army and conducting it without further losses to Medina a month later. However, I'm or even a s marched unopposed through the lens of the hostile tribes received their submission and restore the prestige of Islam on the Syrian frontier. About the end of the seventh year of the he draw the garage and their allies the bunny Bucker violated the terms of the peace concluded at diabetes by attacking the bunny whose who were in alliance with the Muslims the bunny who saw appeal to the profit for help and protection the profit determined to make a stop to the reign of injustice and oppression which had lasted so long at mce. He mmediately gathered ten thousand men to March against the idolators and said out on January six hundred thirty after eight days the Muslims army halted and a lighted. Mar Zahran a day's journey from mecca on the night of the arrival of young who was delegated by the crisis to ask the profit to abandon his project presented himself and bestowed an interview. In the morning. It was granted has the time. Not come was set the profit for you to acknowledge that there is no diety save a law in that. I am his missing jer I was fan after has taken for awhile pronounce the prescribed formula of believe an adopted Slome. He was then sent back to prepare the city for the profits approach with the exception of a slight resistance by certain clans headed by Crema and stuff one in which many Muslims were killed the providence. Enter mecca almost unopposed the city which had treated him. So cruelly driven him and his faithful bend for refugee among strangers the city which had sworn his life and the lives of his devoted a DARREN'S. Now lay at his mercy. His old prosecutors were now completely at his feet. The providence. Enter it mecca on his favorite camel. I'll cuss wa having Asama even Zaid sitting behind him. On his way, he recited fos or fishery the first first of which may be interpreted thus fairly. We have given you Omaha med a manifest victory that a love may forgive you your sins of the past and future and complete his favors on new and guide you on the straight pass. And that a look may help you with strong help chapter forty eight. I one two three occur on. The muslims. Army entered the city on pretentiously peacefully. No house was robbed. No men or women was insulted. The prophet granted a general amnesty to the entire population of mecca only four criminals who Justice condemned were prescribed. He did however ordered the destruction of all idols and pag images of worship upon which three hundred fifty idols which were in the sacred house of Coppa were thrown down the prophet himself destroyed wooden pigeon hung from the roof and regarded as one of the diocese of the garage. During the downfall of the images than idols. He was hurt to cry. Allow a law is great truth has come in falsehood has fanning fairly falsehood is fleeting the old adulterers observed thoughtfully the destruction of their guts, which were usually powerless after the prophet had up all these idols in every pegged right deliver a sermon to the assembled people. He dwelt upon the natural brotherhood of men in the words of the grown. Oh, men calling. We have created you for a male and female and made you inter-nation and tribes that you may know, one another very early the most honorable of you in the sight of a law is that believer who has a wa one of the bias and righteous person who fear a love much of stained from all kinds of sins in evil deeds, which he has forbidden and love much perform all kinds of good deeds, which he has ordained. Verily Alah is all knowing all aware chapter forty nine. I thirteen Ulker on. Narrated Hisham's father when almost messenger said out towards mecca during the year of the conquest of mecca and this news rich the infidels of rush. I was too young hockey me, but his and dial even came out together in Vermeille Shen about Ellis messenger. They proceeded on their way till they reached a place called Mata run, which is near mecca behold there. They saw many fires as they were the fires of out of. Dial. Even what Okoh said the new are less in number than that. Some of the guards of all list messengers saw them and took the over caught them and bring them to almost messenger. I was fan embraced Islam. When the prophet proceeded. He said to us keep up with Fiene standing at the top of the mountain. So that he would look at the Muslims. So I'll abyss kept him standing at that place and the tribes with the profit started passing in front of opera surf yet in military batches. A batch passed in front of opposite fan and said oh up us who are these a set? They are bun guy. Far fan said I've got nothing to do with far then a batch of the tribe of Johanna passed by and he said similarly as a bus, then a batch of the tribe of sod even whose line passed by. And he said similarly as above then came a batch the like of which I was to had not seen. He said who are these of a said, they are the Unser headed by Saad, even but the one holding the flack side, even but is it I was so few today is the day of great battle and today. What is prohibited in the Coppa will be permissible fan said? Oh bus how excellent the day of destructionists. Then k. Another batch of warriors, which was the smallest of all the batches an- in it though was almost messenger and his companions and the Fleck of the froth. It was carried by us buyer, even a warm. When Msgr passed by opposite fan. The latter said to the profit do you know what side even to sit the profit set? What did he say? Sufia? He said so and so the prophet said sought doled ally. But today a low will give superiority to the couple and today the Coppa will be covered with a cloth covering a less messenger. Ordered that his flight befits at alleged. Chapter seventeen. Narrated? Would we now see even bide even with? I'm said I heard a bus seeing as buyer even a a wom. Daloa almost messenger. Order you to fix the flag here. Olis messenger ordered Khalid even to enter mecca from its upper part from Cadel won't the prophet himself. Enter from up to men from the cavalry of colleague, even elite named who by even a shot and chorus even Jobe fealty were martyred on that day. So he a bully. Now, great multitudes came to adopt Islam and take the oath of allegiance to the prophet for this purpose. An assembly was held at us SAFA mountain. Oman acting as the prophets depuy administered the oath whereby the people found themselves not to adore any diety, but a lot to obey the profit to abstain from theft adultery infanticide, lying and backbiting. Thus was fulfilled. The prophecy embodied in the seora fuss in the Koran. During his stay at Makah the profit dispatched his principal to symbols in every direction to preach. Islam among the wild tribes of desert and call them to the true religion of a law. His sense small detachment of his troops into the suburbs. Who destroyed the temples of the Sua Emma knows the three famous idols in the temples of the neighboring tribes. The profit gave strict orders that these expeditions should be carried out in a peaceful manner. These injunction were obeyed in all cases, with one exception the troops under Hulley lead, the fierce newly converted warrior killed a few of the bunny Jasim up when the news of this one block, shed reached the prophet. He was deeply grieved and exclaimed. Oh, my Lord. I am innocent of what Honey. Lead has done. He dispatched a large sum of money for the widows and orphans of the slain and severely rebuked Khalid. At this time, the tribes of housing in showed on willingness to render 'obedient to the Muslims without resistance. They formed a leak with the intention of attacking the profit. But he was vigilant enough to frustrate their plan. A big battle was fout with this new enemy of Islam near nine a deep and narrow divide nine miles northeast of mecca the idolaters were usually defeated one buddy of the enemy consisting. Chiefly of the Turkey tribe took refuge in their fortified city of dive, which eight or nine years before dismissed the profit from within its walls with injuries and insults. The remainder of the defeated force consisting principally of the Hassine Sout at a camp in the valley of out dust. This skin was raided by the Muslim troops, the families of the housing their flocks and hurts with all the other effects were captured by the troops of the prophet. Was then besieged for a few days only after which the prophet raise the siege. Well, knowing that the people of life would soon before Spicer stances to stop mitt without bloodshed. Returning to his camp where the prisoners of Hawaii were left safely. The prophet found a deputation from this hostile tribe who that him to set free their families. The prophet replied that he was willing to give back his own share of those captives and that of the children of up to him with. But that he could not force his followers to bend the fruits of the victory. The disciplines followed the generous example their teacher. The hearts of several members of the duck your tribe were so influenced by this that they offered their allegiance in soon became Ernest. Muslims the profit now return to Medina fully satisfied with the chief moments of his mission. The Knin year the draw is known as the year of embassies as being the year in which the various tribes of Arabia submitted to the claim of the profit and send embassies to render home much to him. These tribes had been waiting the issue of the war between HUD and the garage. But as soon as the tribe the principle of the whole nation and the descendants Vish mile whose prerogative none of to dispute pet submitted. There were satisfied that it was not in their power to oppose Muhammad. Hence their embassies flocked into Medina to make their submission to him. The conquest of mecca decided the fate of idolatry in Arabia now deputations began to arrive from all sides to render the DARREN'S to slow of the reas tribes among the rest five Princess of the tribe of him yard, professed Islam and send ambassadors to notify Mahama of the same. These were the princes of yeoman Mara Oman in your, mama. The idolaters of the very people who had driven the messenger of Islam from their missed with violence in contempt. Now, send a deputation to pray forgiveness. An ask to be numbered among his followers. They backed however for temporary preservation of their idols as a last appeal. They backed for one month of grace only. But even this was not conceded. The prophet said Islam, and the idols could not exist together they then backed for exemption from the daily prayers. The prophet replied that without devotion religion would be nothing at loss. This updated to all that was required them. They have never asked to be exempted from destroying the idols with their own hands. This was granted the province elected. I was fan Melita to destroy the idols of dive the chief of which was the notorious Eitel of. This was carried out. Amidst cries of despair and grief from the women of. The conversion of this tribe of is worthy of notice this tribe, which hitherto had proved hostile to the new phase was noted among the Arabs for its idolatry. Priesthood a small detachment under Ali was send to reduce them to 'obedient and to destroy their idols. The prince of the tribe was ide- the son of the famous hut. The whose generosity was spoken of all over Arabia on the approach of the Muslim force deflect to Syria living his sister with his principal clansman to fall into the hands of the Muslims. These were conducted by Ali with every sign of respect and sympathy to Medina. When the daughter of team came before the profit, she addressed him in the following works messenger of Allah. My father is dead. My brother might only relation fled into the mountains on the approach of the Muslims. I cannot ransom myself I count on your generosity for my deliverance. My father was a new history as men the prince of his tribe a man who ran some prisoners protected. The honor of women set the poor couth the afflicted and was deaf to no appeal. The prophet replied. Your father had the virtues of true Muslim, if it were permitted to invoke the mercy of a law on any whose life was passed in adultery. I would prey to allow for mercy for the soul of the then addressing the Muslim around him. He said the daughter of team is free. Her father was a generous and humane men along loves and wards merciful with the daughter of hunting. All her people were set at liberty, she proceeded to Syria and related to her brother, the generosity of Muhammed. ID touched by gratitude hastened to Medina where he was kindly received by the prophet. He professed Islam and return to his people and persuaded them to abandon idolatry. They all submitted and became devoted Muslims. Chapter eighteen. Hitherto no prohibiting had been enforced against idolaters entering the holy cuppa or performing their abominable rights within the sacred presents towards the end of the year of the draw during the month of pilgrimage Ali was delegated by the prophet to read a book Lamasion that ran as follows. No, I Don shooter shell after this year perform the pilgrimage no-one shawl make the circuit of the by naked such a disgraceful. Custom was practiced by the pagan Arabs and treaty with the profit shall continue in force. But four months are allowed to every man to return to his territories after that, there will be no obligations on the profit except towards those with whom treaties have been concluded the fos- multitude who had listened to the above declarations return to their homes and before the following year was over the majority of them were Muslims. During the tenth year of the draw as in the preceding one numerous embassies continue to pour intimate Dina for all parts of Arabia to testify to the allegiance of the cheese and their tribes. Teachers were sent by the profit into the different provinces to teach the new converts the principles and percents of Islam. These teachers were invariably given the following injunctions. When they were about to depart on their mission deal, gently with the people and be not harsh cheer them. And do not look down upon them with contempt. You will meet with many believers in the holy scriptures. Who will ask you? What is the key to have been answered them it or the key to having is to bear witness to the divine truth into do good, thus the mission of the prophet. Muhammad was. Now accomplished the whole work was achieved in his lifetime. Dollar tree with its nameless. Abominations was entirely destroyed. The people who were sunk in superstitions, cruelty and FIS in regions, were spiritual. Live was usually unknown were now United in one bond, faith, hope and charity the tribes which had been from time memo, Royal engaged in perpetual wars were now United together by the ties of brotherhood love. And harmony henceforth their aims were not confined to this earth alone. But there was something beyond the grace much higher. Pure and diviner calling them to the practice of charity. Goodness. Justice and universal love. They could now perceive that a law was not that which they had carved out of wood or stone. But the almighty loving merciful, the creator of the universe on the return of the sacred month of pilgrimage the profit under the presentiment of his approaching end determined to make a farewell pilgrimage to mecca. In February six hundred thirty two he left Medina with very considerable course of Muslims. It is stated that from ninety thousand to one hundred and forty thousand people accompanied the profit. Before completing all rights of the pilgrimage. He addressed the assembled multitude from the top of mount a refund in the following works. Oh people. Listen to my words for I know, not weather. Another year will be thoug- safe to me after this year divine myself, among you, your lives and property are sacred and inviolable among one another until you appeared before the lured as this day, and the small are sacred for all and remember you will have to appear before your Lord who will demand from you an account for all your actions. Opie people you have rights over your wife and your wife's have a right over you. Verily? You have taken them on the security of a law and have made their people lawful unto you, by the words of a law and your slaves seeing that you feed them with such food as you eat yourself and close them with the stuff you wear, and if they commit a fault, which you are not inclined to forgive than part with them for. They are the servants of the Lord and are not to be harshly treated. Oh people. Listen to my words, and understand them know that all Muslims are brothers. You are one brotherhood. But no men shall take out from his brother unless by his free consent. Keep yourself injustice. Let him who was present tell this to him. Who is absent? It may be that. He who is told this afterward may remember better than he who has now heard it. The profit concluded his sermon by exclaiming Olarte. I have fulfilled. My message unaccomplished my work, the assembled multitude all in one foist, cried y'all fairly you have the profit again exclaimed. All Lord, I beseech you bear witness to it. Having regard performed all the ceremonies of the pilgrimage that his example might be followed by all Muslims for all succeeding ages. The prophet return with his followers to Medina the eleventh year of he draw being the last year of how much life was spent at Medina there. He settled the organization of the provincial and tribal communities which had adopted Islam and become the competence part of the Muslims. Federation more officers had to be deputed to the. Terrier provincials for the purpose of teaching their inhabitants. The percents off the religion administering Justice and collecting caught even Jabba was sent to Yemen on his departure to distant prevents the prophet. Enjoying him to use his own Chretien in the even of his being unable to find express authority in the Koran. Ali was deputed to Yama in the southeast of the peninsula to him. The prophet said never decide between any two parties who come to you for Justice unless you I hear both of them. A force was not being prepared under some evenings. Eight whose father was skilled at muka against the Byzantine to accept the loan delayed reparation for the murder of the envoy to steer. However, the news of the prophets sickness and failing health costs that expedition to be stopped. This news student noised abroad and produced disorder in some districts, three pretenders had arising who gave themselves out as profits and tried by all kinds of imposture to win over the tribes. The most dangerous these pretenders with known as a swat. He was chief of Yemen and conjurer. He stood succeeded in gaining over his tribesmen and with help reduce to subjection. Many of the neighboring towns he killed char whom the prophet had appointed as governor of Sunda in the place of his father bas on who had just died. Bas on had been the viscera of Yemen under choice rose of Persia after he had Islam. He was allowed by the profit to remain as governor of Yemen. He was able to convert to Islam all the Persian colony in that province. I'll ask what the conjurer had now killed char. But soon after he was massacred by the Persians of Yemen. The other two pretenders and Haroon by name would not suppressed until after the death of the prophet during the reign of Abu Bucker honeymoon better known as asylum a- address to the profit letter, which ran as follows from Salema the prophet of a law to Mahama the profit of a law. Peace be to you. I am your partner. Let the exercise of authority be divided between us healthy earth will be mine and half will belong to your rush. But the garage are too greedy to be satisfied with just a vision. To this ladder the profit replied as follows from Hama the messenger of a law. Duma Salema the liar. B's be those who follow the right pass the earth Bologne to a law. It is he who mixed the rain whomsoever, he pleases only, those will prosper who fear the Lord. The health of the profit grew worse. His last days were remarkable for the calmness and serenity of his mind. He was able so weak and feeble to lead the public prayers until within three days of his death. Requested that he might be permitted to stay at ugliest house close to the mosque during his illness an arrangement to which his other wives ascended as long as his strengths last hit took part in the public prayers. The less time he appeared in the mosque. He addressed the congregation after the usual prayers were over in the following words. Oh, muslims. If I have wronged. Anyone view hero AM to answer for if I o anything to anyone only may happen to possess belongs to you a man in the crowd rose and claimed three d'or homes, which he had given to a poor man at the request of the profit. They were immediately paid back with these words better to blush in this world than the next. The and. Epi look. The than prayed and implored almost mercy for those who had fallen in the persecution of their enemies. He recommended to all his followers, the observance of religious duties and the leading of alive of peace and goodwill, then he spoke with emotion, and with the voice still so powerful as to reach beyond the outer doors of the mosque by the Lord in whose hen laws, the soul of Muhammad estimate self no men can lay hold on me in any matter. I have not made lawful. Anything accepting Alah has made lawful nor have I prohibited. Anything? But that which alone in his book has prohibited than turning to the women who said close by he exclaimed. Oh, Thema my daughter and Sophia might end work. You both said which procure you acceptance with the Lord for fairly I have no power to save you in any wise, he then rose and re entered the house of Asia after this. The prophet never appeared at public prayers a few hours after he returned from the mosque the profit died while laying his head on the bus of Asia. As soon as the prophets death was announced a crowd of people gathered at the door of the house of ice show exclaiming how can our messenger be dead set. No, his not dead. He will be restored to us. And those are traitors to the cost of Islam who say he is dead. If they say, so let them become in pieces. But Abu poker entering the house at this moment. And after he had touched the body of the prophet with a demonstration of profound affection, he appeared at the door and address the crowd with the following speech. Oh, muslims. If anyone view has been worshiping Mahama than let me tell you that Mohammed is dead. But if you really do worship a law than know that a lot is living and will never die. Do you forget the verse in the Koran? Muhammad is not more than a messenger, and indeed many messengers have passed away before him if he dies or is killed will you then turn your back on your heels as disbelievers, and he who turns back on his heels, not the least harm will he do Alah and a love will give reward to those who are grateful chapter three I one hundred and forty four on. Upon hearing this speech of Albuquerque, Omar acknowledged his error and the crowd was satisfied and dispersed a bus the profits coal presided the preparation for the bureau, and the body was Doley washed and perfumed. There was some dispute between the crush the unsourced asked the place of burial. However will Bucker settled the dispute by averting that he had heard the profit say that a profit should be buried at the very spot where he died a grave was accordingly dug in the ground within the house of Aisha and under the bed on which the profit died in this grave, the body was bullied, and the usual rites performed by those who were present thus ended the glorious life off that prophet. Muhammad solo Ali Hassan them may the peace and blessings of alone. Also with Allah be above him.

Muhammad mecca Gabriel Ali Karaj Syria Gabrielle Muhamud Ali Hassan Mahama Blackstone Caniggia Noah mecca Arabia CT Abedian Ishmael DARREN'S Bani Husham
July 14: Outsourcing trouble

As It Happens from CBC Radio

52:26 min | 10 months ago

July 14: Outsourcing trouble

"The? He smashed pretty much. Every billboard and streaming record that matters it has already been streamed more than a billion times. People still to this day point to this is the moment everything changed, but whether you agree with those claims are not this podcast. Is it really about him? Either? You're not an astute businessman, or you're inherently racist when it comes to black music and his country, this is not a drake podcast available now on CBC. Listen or wherever you get your podcast. This is a CBC podcast. Hello I'm Nico, saw and I'm Ali. Hassan. This is as it happens the podcast edition. Tonight, outsourcing trouble Oshawa. Ontario hires private security to deal with. It's growing community of homeless people. We speak to the city's mayor who was once homeless himself superiority complex for decades, a late Western university professor researched and wrote about racial superiority and genetics now a group of Black Alumni Sates time to address the school's lingering legacy of tenured racism shot in the dark the. The first human trial of a potential cove in nineteen vaccine is underway in Canada. We'll ask one of the scientists behind it. Just how much is riding on a homemade solution? Run from the border. After a congresswoman came on the show to call for Canada to get going with plans to reopen the border with the US. You answered the call with a resounding no. They've got it covered people in a UK long-term care home fight the corona virus blues by riffing off. Some classic album covers in a photo series, starring their lockdown rock and cells and shock treatment. A pub in Cornwall England has become so frustrated by the behavior of its patrons when it comes to physical distancing that they've installed an electric fence inside the bar. As it happens the Tuesday edition radio that brings you all kinds of current affairs. There are private security guards on the streets of Oshawa Ontario. They were put there by the city government. Even before the covid nineteen pandemic began, there were already a fair number of homeless people living in Oshawa and counselor say that since the spring, the homeless population there has spiked, and so it's hired cdn protection to patrol the downtown, but advocates for homeless say that approach is harmful and wrongheaded Dan. Carter is the mayor of Shas a young man. He was homeless himself. We reached him in Oshawa. Mayor Carter for our listeners who aren't familiar with Oshawa. Can you paint a picture for us of what is happening on the streets there and why you felt it was necessary to hire a private security firm to patrol the downtown core. Fifty seven kilometers east of Toronto population about a hundred and seventy two thousand people is traditionally been known for General Motors and the mobile industry, but We also have been known as a caring compassionate community for over a hundred years. We always been a compassionate and kind to those individuals that are struggling those individuals that are on sheltered or dealing with addictions, and we are now finding ourselves inundated with From across the province that are coming to us while seeking help, but at the same time. What's happening is we have a criminal element that has also appeared in our community that take advantage of those individuals that are unsheltered that are dealing with addiction and mental health, and so we've had to do some extraordinary steps and meeting the needs of not only those that are suffering. How do we also meet the needs of our community to make sure it's safe? that people are getting the services that they need at the right time, but why not use police bylaw? Officers are social workers even to try to do this work and help people as you say. Well we are, so we work with their mutual police. We have to foot patrol officers through the daytime and our downtown core. They been helping us really kind of help individuals that are in our community, those that are committing crimes that are here to deal drugs and sell drugs to those individuals that are addicted, so the police are doing a great job in regards to the criminal element of things are bylaw officers are not equipped to. To deal with the severity of the mental health and addiction issues that we're now facing from a population we've never seen before. We're used to having an influx of the individuals that come into our communities that are unsheltered, but eat has exploded. We thought it through our data that we have individuals from all across the province that we just have not seen before. The severity of their illnesses have brought a lot of complexities to our community. In the history of being carrying and compassionate, and I think that's why, for for some wars seeing the story unfold. That's what they can't in part reconcile. Our colleagues at Metro morning spoke to Christine Thornton. Who leads the anti-poverty group in Oshawa called Dire. I'm sure you're familiar with it, but let's take a listen for a moment to what misfortune told our colleagues CBC Toronto. I would like them to ask themselves if they would like to be treated like this. When they were at their worst, because I certainly wouldn't. If I was struggling, and I lost everything, and I was on the streets, and the only thing that was my friend was perhaps a substance that made me feel a little bit less alone. What I would want was compassion I wouldn't want to be woken up with dog or an angry security guard. WHO's frustrated because I've fallen asleep behind the automotive? Museum here something. What's your response to to that Mayor Carter? Is this really the the best most humane way to help? People who are living on the streets? But, the reason why we have reach teams of why we've taken this approach out of collective collaborative effort to be able to make sure that we're meeting. All the needs of individuals I've said this time and time again number one is. There's no reason why anyone is sleeping on the streets of the city of Oshawa. We have a bad for those that obsolete. You WanNa bed, we. We will provide it. We're GONNA utilize every resource. It's absolutely possible to be able to meet the needs of our community, and especially those individuals that are struggling like they are. This security organization has been instructing as part of their contract that they do not use their canine division. They cannot be hands on except for an emergency what they're trying to save someone's life by administrating. Oxen, if somebody's othing. Their First Line of defense is to be able to connect with the individual. Find out how they could help that person at that particular time make the calls that are necessary and of criminal behavior is underway. They call nine one one and they get Durham regional police and by the way. You know my background. Many viewers know the background that I struggled with addiction to help. That I have never forgotten, and I heard this this morning. Never forgotten about my last day on the streets and my first day recovery, and I dedicated twenty nine years of my life to be able to be an advocate, educator and three little serve the community and I. Take liberties. When people say maybe he forgot. I never forgot I. Remember that day of my wife and myself have started an organization and we have donated. A million dollars to help organizations I have worked tirelessly to make sure that we have a conversation about how four thousand Canadians die of opiate over crisis across this country. We have two hundred forty thousand people that call the streets home. I find it unacceptable that anybody dies on our streets in the city of Oshawa, I can tell how much it stings that that criticism when people insinuate that you may have forgotten how difficult it was to be homeless and deal with addiction. But can you understand that people have a hard time reconciling? What's playing out here? This is one hundred thousand dollar program and many critics said. Could this money not have been spent? In other ways that don't involve security guards because people respond in a different way to security guards, even if that guard happens to have a kind demeanor sends a different kind of message. This particular company that has been working with our reach teams with working with the social agencies in our community for over a year now that's one of the reasons why I think. Council selected this organization because they had proven that they work with those organizations, so council made a decision that based upon their their actions through their compassion through the way that they've been able to help individuals that are struggling. That was part of their decision, making I understand what people at first light WANNA grab onto it. It, but understand that this is part of an overall strategy regards to helping individuals. Find the help that they need. Because we find it unacceptable that anyone sleeps on the streets and anybody on our streets. I will not stop until we find a way of saving their lives because I believe somebody's parrot, somebody's loved. One expects the mayor the city of All Shwe to do everything they possibly can to save their child's life. I'm committed to that Mayor Carter I. Thank you very much for your time. I thank you very much for reaching out to us I only wish you all the best and I look for retard next conversation. Thank you. Dan Carter is the mayor of Oshawa Ontario. The. First Canadian human clinical trials for a vaccine for covid nineteen have begun in Quebec City the vaccine candidate was developed by Medicare go inc a Quebec suitable company. It shown promising results tests on animals, and now researchers have the go ahead to try it out on human volunteers. Yesterday six people got their first trial dose for the COVID. Nineteen vaccine candidate naturally laundry Medica goes executive vice president of scientific and medical affairs. Ms Laundry there is such a race such fervor right now to find a vaccine, so how Canadians feel about the fact that we're seeing a potential corona virus vaccine being tested on humans here in Canada. So. This is a very important they for us, and and this is a technology that we have up here in Canada, so this is a unique technology that uses plans as bio reactor to produce a virus like particle vaccine. These vaccine they look like the virus, but they're not infectious, and and when you inject as vaccine, people will flop good immune response. This is quite an achievement for us. in the world in general I think there's more than one hundred fifty. That aren't developing vaccines. And I think we're There's two twenty five companies that are in clinical development and Medicaid GonNA WANNA set. The stage you're at now, are in fact, safety tests. So how hard is it been for you to convince people to take part? It's not that difficult given the situation with covid nineteen, and and should we say that vaccines are safe products in general it is, it's not like some treatment that could eventually at some side effects vaccine are recognize to be a safe products, and we have a lot of experience with an influenza vaccine is seasonal influence vaccine that has been produced using our technology, and for which we have completed phase one. And phase three trials and the those C- is currently being reviewed by Al Qaeda for marketers, so we have. A lot of experience out to produce up this type of vaccine meaning influence I in the backseat for Covid nineteen is somehow similar in nature to that of influenza, and we have extensive clinical experience so. I would say that we offer a solution that could help protect and fight against this disease. How many people are you doing? These safety tests on. A hundred eighty for phase one. They are h eighteen to fifty five years of age, and they're lt volunteer, so we just three different does level of the vaccine with or without an adjective, an edge of being substance that will stimulate an immune response. And after we get the data, we will select the best vaccine option, and we will move in to face to where the objective are similar. We look at safety and the immune response, but we do that in a larger number of subject, and we go to older adults, l. e., people, and also people would co morbidity. The idea is to select the best vaccine options for the target population, so we will be able to start the face to. Somewhere in October that could provide results by the end of December and after up, we would be ready if everything goes well for the last clinical trial, that is a face tree where we evaluate the if you can see if the vaccine in a large number of subject, and that's the last trial that is needed to prove that the vaccine is safe, immuno-genetic and effective at preventing the. And after that when the regulatory authorities reviewed those say, the vaccine is available to the population. How do you prepare yourself? Though you know as you've likely seen in some parts of the world, the United States first of all we can talk about even the idea of wearing masks during this pandemic has become controversial issue of freedom for some people and we also know about ANTIBAC- sers are people who are doubtful about vaccine. So how do you prepare yourself for that conversation? THAT POTENTIAL FIGHT! Well You know vaccine They Save Life. This is one of the very important invention. Of the modern world, then if we remember the mortality in kids was very I several years ago. I would say in the early. Nineties and vaccine is something that can protect people to I at the young age from deadly disease. It can protect also our elderly people. To suffer a complication of of viral disease so You know there's there's always people that will be against a certain recommendations, but we have. Multiple evidence that vaccine are are in general very safe, and they can prevent very severe disease. If not that, what would it mean for you and your team is laundry and this country? If you were the ones to develop the first vaccine. Main deferred the second of the third is is not that important in a sense because no vaccine manufacturer can is able to produce any of those to to protect everybody so everybody as a every vaccine manufacturing pick. No, yes, some limitations in terms of capacity, so we need multiple option second vaccine that will protect the pediatric population, sometimes are different than vaccine would protect the elderly so what I mean by that we need many vaccine options that for differently at and using an immune response so. It won't be a race with a single winner. There will be multiple companies that will participate to global effort, so we can control the spending make. Ms, laundry I. Thank you so much for your time. You're welcome. Natalie laundry is the executive vice president of scientific and medical affairs for Medica. Go Inc the first Canadian. Human clinical trials for covid nineteen vaccine have begun in Quebec City. It's official. The Canada US border will remain closed into August. That announcement came today, but some American politicians have been arguing that it is time to open things up last week. New. York Congresswoman Kathleen Rice shared her argument that the two neighbours start planning to reopen, and then we heard from many of you Joseph. Terrence emailed from COM Premier Ontario. To, get straight to the point. My entire family and most of our friends do not want the border open maybe a year from now. Maybe we have many American, family and friends in the US were clearing the virus up. Let's keep it that way and Nancy. WHO's twitter handle is at voting ABC tweeted. We love our American neighbors. But many of you are not feeling very well right now. Get better soon and we can all visit again. This virus has Canada has cost Canada enough in lives and money and our Canadian listeners weren't alone. Jesse Salisbury tweeted from Kansas American. Here, keep your borders closed. We don't have this under control at all, and here's what you told talkback. High Flynn the Holland speaking I'm calling from cache, CREEK BC I caught the tail. End of the woman was talking about opening the border, and how we should be starting a conversation, and the economy is the ultimate goal, and no SEWRI health is the ultimate goal and you. The United States have a job to do before there can ever be any start of conversation. Since go, Jim I'm calling from the sunshine. Coast and it's obvious went. Isn't it obvious it's when their get their numbers under control? But it's like we have to have a big talk. About what is you know the scientific evidence? It's all there. Get the numbers under control. Get it down and then the borders starting to open. Thank you to everyone who got in touch. If you have anything you'd like to share. Our borders are always open. Email us at a I H at CBC. DOT CA or call talkback at four, one, six, zero, five, five, six, eight seven. Breath. And Folks at the Sidmar Lodge are not letting the corona virus. Keep them from rocking out the residents and caregivers at the long term care home in edgeware England have been posing for photos, replicating classic album covers and the largest activities director has been sharing the results. There's who's ninety-three mimicking the pose of Adel on the cover of her album twenty-one Aroma Cohen, a lightning bolt on her face, just like David Bowie on Aladdin Sane. The whole thing has blown up into a social media sensation Robert Speaker. Is that activities director? He's in edgeware. Mr Speaker what do Mar. Lodge residents make of all the attention. They're getting from all around the world. Yeah, they can't quite believe even if I tell them. They call me a liar they could be. You'll making it up. They say you'll make it up Debbie daft. Obviously social media to somebody. WHO's ninety one hundred it? It's hard to grasp, and it's hard to grasp the actual fake. Even when somebody says to me, my sister said nine million people. Obscene my original tweets and even I can't believe that so what I'm trying to explain the Macarena cheat you. The residents also down to F that they adjust happy to listen to some music that I'm playing as they were happy to have buffet to graph taken as an album cover. The goal wasn't to go viral. Necessarily, it was to lift resident spirits right. So what? What kinds of things have they told you? Or whether it was just to have a laugh often i. do things just so? The residents will smile. And when I showed them the final piece, a they weigh in Fitsville Derek's and when we were doing it over Asli, when I'm drawing a lightning bolt on somebody's face or some tattoos on ninety three year old ladies. That can't be left. At the same time, so it was great fun doing it even asking somebody to pose guided, say what do odd for me is by the, and then we'd have such a laugh, and we have to start again, so it was really good fun, and it was nice one to one time with each resident as always doing it. It was nice for them to get some attention just for them. Both a nicer me to be able to just check all said that they will all right during this time. We've been in lockdown for four months so. Is there a specific story from one resident that stands out to you? There are few to be honest style. has its own little story. Each restaurant isn't individual at the end of the day. They've all got a life stories that the the obvious one is Sheila is ninety three, and she's not your classic ninety three year old, so she knows current. She knows what is going on in the world, and she also doesn't mind sharing her views where the good Obama'd you will hear about it, but she is also fake game, so one of the things I've done in the past is to do eighty bucket list by Downli calling. It's bucket list I. Say things that you want to do in your lifetime and she said. Said Easy I. Want to go and see rock by a man. He's a singer so I got on the case I took her to a festival to see rag and bone man I we got VIP tickets, and as a surprise I'd Organiz for him to meet it before Hong where he gave her signed album. which appear is next to the actual recreation of. You'll be able to see it. Says Da Sheila. RAG INVITING MIND above and beyond Mr Speaker. That is the way I like to wear. When you think of something, you have to always strive for that goal. Just describe a couple of them to me. Sheila's cover. For example we started off doing. HEFF s actually because she gets me. She gets my sense of humor on my madcap ideas, so we did the Elvis Presley and the collapse, and I did pretty basic posts for that one, but with the Rackham vitamin that she participated thin. That's why I went to a deep level because she had a much closer connection with the actual autism so I spent quite a bit of time drawing a Tattoo on copying a picture, and then it was trying to get into the similar position, but For a ninety three year olds to do that, same position of leaning over a Chad is not quite as easy, so it wasn't my intention to exactly the same I wanted to put some personal edge on it so that you could see the individual's personality so I hope that shown through. Speaker, Covid nineteen has certainly laid bare the problems with long term care homes in this country. It's really been the epicenter of the crisis, so many lives lost. As we consider the future of long-term care in this country, what do you think we should learn? I think we learn that. Just because somebody is in a cast setting h shouldn't be seen how it was perhaps seen in the ATS way. They just play Bingo overboard. Games or have quizzes. It should be more than that They've lived full lives for eighty ninety years before they come to a catching sometimes and that life has to be lent about to have to learn about each individual to now. How best to help them to make sure that? That it isn't about giving up. It's about WH-, can we do? What can I do to make that life? Fulfilling the fact is that there's plenty of opportunity out there. There's a loss of people out there. Who wanted to help on the pandemic show that I just hope that other Kaffa civilities can appreciate how important they are and people in cat sector should be treated as human beings who have exactly the same rights. And should be treated. The, same, if not better because of what they have done in that lives. Mr Speaker I'm so glad we had a chance to chat kindness, humanity and laughter. They should be the norm, not rarities. Sidmar and the residents are certainly lucky to have you. Thanks so much for your time. Thank you very much indeed following. Robert Speaker is activities director at Sidmar. Lodge, we reached him in edgeware. England and you can see the Sidmar album cover collection on our website. CBC DOT CA Slash H. The theaters have closed, but the show logo on play me. PODCAST is thrilled to present a new series. The show must go on featuring provocative productions from some of North America's most acclaimed creators for the stage. Sit back and experience everything from chilling thrillers to Gut wrenching dramas to irreverent comedies each month experience the exhilaration of theater from the comfort of your own home. Me Available wherever you get your podcasts. He smashed pretty much. Every billboard and streaming record that matters it has already been stream more than a billion times. People still to this day. Point to this is the moment everything changed, but whether you agree with those claims are not. This podcast isn't really about him either. You're not an astute businessman, or you're inherently racist. When it comes to black music in this country, this is not a drake podcast available now on CBC listen or wherever you get your podcasts. It's been decades since they walk the halls of Western, university. But a group of Black Alumni Henry reunited to compel the school to take action against anti-black racism. Their calls come after the Antero University responded to a report that found a deeply entrenched anti-black lead at the school. President Alan Shepherd vowed to hire a senior adviser on diversity issues and apologized for the work of Philip. Rushton a former psychology professor whose teachings attempted to link race and intelligence, but the group says the university isn't doing enough to receive even a passing grade. Geraldine Marie is a member of the group Black Western alumni. We reached her in New York. Missouri by left Western thirty years ago, so what compelled you to reconnect with your former classmates now and talk about racism at the University? Thirty years ago I had a very traumatic and disturbing experience that happened across my undergraduate career and I got an email from someone I hadn't seen in thirty years asking if I knew that the issue of Rushton had reared. And the universe issued two statements one from the president and one from the psychology department and I looked at those two statements and realized they still hadn't gone far enough, and the university still didn't understand the harm that they had created in two weeks later. We've created a list of thirteen action items, and we're trying to get something finally done at Western, the Russian you mentioned is Philippe Rushton. Someone who was working at the university from Nineteen Seventy, seven to twenty twelve for those who are not familiar with Philippe Rushton. Remind us about who he was, and what was so problematic about his work. So even that question is hard for me to answer because the problem with Rushden is, he used pseudoscience fake science to promote racism. His varies were based on intelligence and Lincoln pissed degrees of intelligence to race. And his unscientific research was supported by the university, and that's what led to a lot of the harm that was done to students who attended the school then until today. It was racism under the guise of research and I. Hesitate to ask because I know it's. It's so difficult to go back to that time. But what was it like for you on a daily basis? The university created a climate at the school where we felt less than where we had our intelligence questioned where in every class we went to at that time, we were asked to defend ourselves to explain why Rushton was wrong. Do you know how humiliating and Dehumanizing Gut is? When you're in a classroom in? You're being asked questions about your own intelligence. It's the equivalent of being asked. How did you get here? Why are you here? We? We face that everyday and not only that we faced avert very extreme. Circumstances of racism, including one pair who had bananas taste to her dormitory door. Another one in a hazing process was taped to a cross, left outside across, and I can go on. It wasn't just that Rushton. Did this racist research? It's that he created a climate at the university that allowed people to express their racism in very hostile and direct ways that was western yesterday and Western is still the same way today. Will this group that you're that? You're a part of? There's an instagram pages while I was looking at it and some of the experiences that people are accounting our recent experiences. The use of the N. word scrawled on a wall or uttered in a classroom by professor. Absolutely part of the problem is they haven't created an environment that is diverse enough. That prevents these things from happening, and so when you're black and a student at Western, there's almost no representation in faculty in administration and what we're asking for thirteen different action items to change that, but also to prevent the type of pseudoscience, but they allow to happen from ever happening again. Because tell you the work that Rushton did is now seen as foundational work for you. Genesis and white supremacists globally, and that is a smear on this university. They allow that to happen. The current president of Western Alan Shepherd recently apologized for Russians work and the quote. Deep harm that has been experienced also made promises including to review policies on how the university responds to racist incidents and to hire a senior adviser to the president on diversity issues. What you make of those promises. I think that it's a baby. Step, the problem is. It doesn't include. A definitive measurable steps that can happen and when it will happen to make a difference, we're asking for very very specific things we want them to create a cause in their ethics. Review approval system to prevent funds from. Organizations like the Pioneer Fund that promote hate from giving money to the university. We really really want them to have a review system to make sure that this type of pseudoscience never happens again. How did you push through as a black young woman at that time? I. Don't know how to answer that question. I can tell you for sure is. Now, but I've connected with people. I went to school with thirty years ago. The conversations we've had are incredibly meaningful. Because what we've discovered is in spite of all of that harm that happened while we were at the university. We've succeeded. We've gone on to live very full lives, but what we all share is. A deep pain hasn't gone away. And what we all share is a commitment to changing the university for the future and I'll also say none of us have ever given a dine to university, nor will we give any money or our time or energy? Until things change has to change. Geraldine Marie. Thank you so much for your time. Thank you so much. Geraldine Maria is a member of the group black at Western. We reached her in New York, and you can find more on this story on our web page at CBC DOT CA. Slash as it happens. Blue. Maksim grenade was paddling. The waters of the Saint Lawrence when a pot of Beluga whale surrounded him. The Quebec paddler had never seen a Beluga and he was terrified, so he did what a lot of us would do in a moment like this. He pulled out his phone and recorded. Here's what it sounded like. Oh, my God. Oh, my God! Okay, here's the data. Now Beluga whales are known to visit that stretch of water around leases Cuma Quebec. Many hoped to catch a glimpse of the elusive gentle giants, but maximum gonyea didn't think anyone would believe him without evidence and here he is telling the story to CBC Quebec. Talking to my go fan on the phone just because I was. Pretty tight at about sending. Far Away but. Then I saw to those that were getting closer and closer so I hang up the phone and then I started to record about moment, and then when I saw about a thing gonNA swimming under my my paddle board I got kind nervous in the. Even scared as you can here on the video. At some point, they have been trying to push on the board, so Cana. I can realize I could finally end ended up in the water. And then that very cold water, so I got a bit nervous about that, but then I quickly realized as well they were. Very courteous and can have fun so. I don't think I was an endangered point there. The just WANNA play with up It's actually a little funny to hear you on the video sort of. Poison realized that ended up in the water. So it was like it was a moment or two where you weren't sure what might happen. Yeah, exactly and I I will ensure a of. Should I feel about this situation so? I I was hoping. For share was one of my dream. but then when it? Happens to you. You're not sure about how you should feel it all that. Should. I be scared and alone in the middle of a big launch forever was gonna I was GonNa Freak it out first and then I just realized uh I'm just very lucky, and I got to enjoy this moment as much as I can. Even better, if I can share that to other people that that would probably be dreaming of thought as well. That was maximum Gurney speaking with the CBC Susan Campbell after he had a surprise visit from some Beluga. Whales while paddling in the Saint Lawrence. The beaver could get crowded, but for people who loved the Divey Toronto. Bar, that was kind of the point shoulder to shoulder drag shows Trivia Nights. Karaoke performances are generally way more fun than the alternative, but they're also not terribly pandemic proof, and so the owners of the Toronto Lgbtq Bar have announced that what started as a temporary closure will be a permanent one. Adam callan worked as a manager at the BEAVER, and says the bars shut down a warning of what succumb. We reached Mr Callan in Toronto. Mr Cowan, what was the typical night at the beaver like? Usually it would be the dirtiest messy. The drag Queens. You'd ever seen. It would just be the same time very warm, welcoming, you would have. Like a no judgment, just every single type of person would would come to the beaver it just a warm and welcoming place and the. Do People really made it there? There was a lot of folks. Just putting out there weird and wonderful. Actually feed it via Nov who is also known as DJ dancing. Fill in the city posted about the beaver and wrote beaver. Toronto was where I found. My footing is a queer kid in Toronto. It's where I danced the hardest dress. The best met all of my favorite Weirdos and he goes on beyond that. What kind of memories does beaver hold for you? It was it was very formative for me like a a gave me my home I I don't think I would have. I would never have met so many of the great people if I worked there in there as patron, most weekends and I think it's hard to imagine what life and I think. A lot of paramount of folks would would-be without the place I know the founders of the beaver Lynn McNeil and we'll monroe really wanted to prove that lgbtq spaces could thrive outside of Toronto's Gay village. Why do you think that was so important? Bleed back in will will stay in there was. Parties. That were lgbtq weren't really happening outside of the village. Than not, so I'd say the village was. Predominantly like. What gay male space and what will did was. All types of genders and Were welcome and. With that, it was just sort of freedom that we're not tied to a certain location, not tied to a certain identity or anything. Are there any particular memories that that? Stay in your mind that you've been thinking about over these last few days? Yes, there was an actual wedding that occurred there. It was it was between A. One of our regular drag performers and it was. It was really beautiful. Men To is on. There's about forty or fifty of us all A. Most people dressed up in their drag garb. You know and Having having a drag queen as a the officiator and I guess having a wedding in a small little dive bar. It was really it was really special in bizarre. I loved it so much. You you've talked about how welcoming. It is and those kind of moments, but at the same time this was a place to party. So when we think of the logistics of that because we do think of these things in covid nineteen more now just how crowded and packed. Pubs and bars are so. What do you think business at the beaver would have looked like if physical distancing were being enforced. A think it just. It wouldn't be systematically possible. It's too small and then I guess part of the appeal. Yes, to the beaver was that everyone would be so cramped together just hip to hip. and. We can't really do that anymore. It's unsafe. It's doesn't make any. It wouldn't be able to stay in business. If. We had to cut capacity in half. It was always kind of a fine line anyway. So with realities that were in now. It's hard. What have you been hearing people since the permanent closure was announced. been getting so many heart feeling messages and I honestly didn't expect it to. Get this much outpouring, but it I think it's held a special place for a lot of people from quite a lot of generations to I didn't realize instagram had a max limit on how many stories you could share. Discovered that today? As people have been tagging their memories over the years. What's your sense of the types of places? That are closing because of covid nineteen. What kinds of places establishments is the city of Toronto losing? Do you think? I think it. Exasperated all the trends that we've been hearing about for years and. About this runaway real estate, and how neighborhoods get pushed out by the expensive rents and win a small little hole in the wall like ours. Is Hit with this then. There's just no way for for us to keep going and. kind of almost I feel like it's almost a death spiral of wiped why we live in cities. We live in cities because we're. We like to be near things. The events that are happening and I know we're like A. Pretty small community, but imagine imagine it's happening to a lot of different communities. Where and how do you think people will gather now? I mean people still wanNA dance and connect. Guess. It'll be. It'll be outdoor stuff for quite some time now, i. Thought. His interest is kind of a framework for how this works. It's almost now going out and meeting folks. It's Kinda got a view it as harm reduction. that. You're taking this risk just by being around a group of people. It's I think it's important to be around to still be around folks of course, but it's what you want to be able to see people in person we can't. Be like this forever, but it's. The vaccine. That's going to be the reality, right? In your statement announcing the beavers permanent closure, you wrote quote. A building is just a place, so are you hoping that one day you'll find a new place? That's the hope. Yeah, and I'm hoping it'll be larger better and bigger and be something for the community will really like well. Adam we hope you do find a new place. Maybe we'll chat with you. Then if and when that happens at encounter, I thank you for your time. Take Care, thank you. Adam Callan is a former staffer at the beaver in Toronto, which just announced its permanent closure due to covid nineteen. Sue Akil Augustine says. As soon as he read radicalized, he was reminded of the TV show Black Mirror with all its dire warnings about the perils and pitfalls of technology, but also with a with a side, helping of optimism that the show often lacks next week. The sports broadcaster will be looking for a win when he champions the book on Canada reads, and when he first met its author this year, he asked him about his vision for radicalized one that has become all the more timely since the battle of the books was postponed due to a certain pandemic. Here's Curry Dr Oh speaking to Mr Augustine. I work on all these abstract technical issues we mentioned. The book is about the these four novellas about people kind of taking control of their technology in difficult situations. Refugees ones, but a superhero ones about A. Ones about data watches his wife. You know, get cancer. That's treatable, but the insurance company won't treat you know all of these technical issues that underpin these stories. They're really abstract. They're really complicated and kind of boring right like. But the technical issues right, but like if I go to, you like well. Let's talk about circumvention of technical protection measures whether or not that should be limited to instances in which is bonafide copyright infringement. But if you tell me you're not gonNA, be able to use your toaster. That, this is going to be a means for wealth extraction. If you put the meat on the bones right if you take these dry, abstract questions, and you turn them into really vivid stories about people living and dying by them, then you not only create a sense of urgency for things that feel like they're a long way away and not very immediate in your life when you know, the world is on fire, but it also means that as these problems become Sherpur because. If you've no problem, it just gets worse. We gotTA vocabulary for talking about it. So that's what I'm trying to get at right I WANNA get people. All fired up about things that will eventually be on fire when they're still smoldering so that we're not all on fire when it's time to deal with them. Corey doctoroff is the author of radicalized a collection of four novellas that will be championed by sports broadcaster Keel Augustine. In next week's Canada reads debates moderated by yours truly to find out how to listen visit. CBC BOOKS DOT CA. com? So a fellow by the name of Johnny McFadden has recently made some important discoveries about human nature I. When you serve people drink. They change Mr. McFadden runs a pub in a small town in Cornwall Cornwall England, and he means an alcoholic drink. The change has to do with a person's ability to follow simple, but crucial rules such as keeping your distance fro the humans, so you don't worsen the spread of a global pandemic. His second observation is even more cutting. It's this. People are like sheep. And, so he's decided to treat the patrons who've been flocking to his star in Pub- accordingly by installing an electric fence. Inside the bar! Mr McFadden described it to. The BBC is just a normal electric fence that you would find in a field according to Mr. McFadden his customers find the electric fence amusing. But also according to Mr McFadden, his insurance broker does not word got back that the broker had told someone close to Mr, McFadden I hope he is not electrocuting people. I have to say I'm I'm with them on that one, but Mr McFadden is being coy about whether the fence is in fact turned on so far. No one has been willing to test it. Which I guess tells us something else about human nature. Most of us don't include being electrocuted on our list of fun things to do of an evening. You've been listening to the as it happens podcast. Our show can be heard Monday to Friday on CBC radio. One following the world at six. You can also listen to the show on the web. At CBC, dot Ca Slash Ah. Thanks for listening I'm cooks. All and I'm Ali Hassan. For more see PODCASTS GOTO CBC DOT CA slash podcasts.

CBC BEAVER Toronto Canada Oshawa United States Mayor Carter Philippe Rushton Quebec City CBC Ali Hassan Ontario Robert Speaker Adam callan Covid Johnny McFadden instagram professor president executive vice president
Deliberate Evil

Dateline NBC

1:23:46 hr | 1 year ago

Deliberate Evil

"I'm Lester Holt tonight. On dateline a murder tears apart one family and exposes sickening secrets of another in Houston now on reporting. I just heard three gunshots. There's a female victim was shot. Nicole slumped over I. I can't believe she's gone. Male been found apparent gunshot wounds and sounded apartment screaming. I can't understand you. It will never know anybody that's been murdered but to no two wants to be stuck right in the middle of that. It was like hunting party stalking your family. I had a lot of fears for people's safety. This Guy Marshall his whole family as part of this criminal enterprise right. There's a moment in court. Were Ali stares at you and goes like this like he's ringing your neck yes. He didn't like he's an evil man. Worse worse than Charles Manson Here's Josh Markowitz with deliberate evil and sometimes it looks as if Houston Texas just goes on forever sprawling all the way to the horizon. This was also so the setting of a sprawling crying one began on a quiet Sunday night with a young woman named Gallery boggles Audie January fifteenth. Two thousand twelve. She'd stopped by her boyfriend. Corey's house for a surprise visit. She just came to the door knocking on doors. It was like surprise. What are you doing here? And she's like I could not stay away and we hung out for a couple of hours. She went home and I told her like when she got home to text me and let me know that she made it home. Okay just past eleven. PM now heading home. Delray wound through the streets of Houston's Galleria neighborhood as and she drove. She chatted on the phone with her friend Rabin Bandar. She got closer to home. We're on the phone. We're talking then. As Gila Rate Pool into the townhouse complex. Likes where she lived with her parents. For a moment she stopped talking and when I asked you there she said hold on she honked and she said they're not moving and then the phone dropped and I heard a very loud scream. Was this cream like it was from bottom of her lungs like she shouted Solo Solo. Rabin dialed nine one one on another line as he galleries house with my friend. She's actually done. I think she got in a car accident. I heard something. She's not responding back but the phone is still on lean arrived at the front door of gallery and and her parents and everything looked normal. Have Power Insensitive With a smile and I ask if killer is home they said no and I set. I was on the phone with her. I was still on the phone with her. When I actually knocked on the door the call was still alive but there was nothing coming from galleries galleries end of the line? Rabin drove off to look for and called nine one one again. What if something really terrible happen to her? I can't I can't I know what she she is. Though just north of town galleries boyfriend cory waited for her takes him. She was home safe. We kind of have this thing because I would get so absorbed with studying that I wouldn't check my phone sometimes and says she would be like you need to call me and don't disappear and then so this night I external. Hey are you. Okay let me know you made it home and I'm thinking maybe she's doing that to me now that she's like I'm going to show you how it feels all those. Yeah and so So then I just kind of like then I went to bed. He wasn't that concerned but over at galleries complex neighbors had been calling nine. One one I just heard what I'd like three gunshot right behind my unit and a car leaving suddenly and I'm afraid you figure and see what's happened. Did you see the car. I can't see my garage. Define my Tan House. I heard three gunshots and then Repeats Higher Higher Speed. You see the vehicle that it came from no screeching tires pulling out here and it all happened. The garage is of the same complex where gallery and her parents lived soon patrol unit for the Houston Police Department pulled up to the rear driveway. Ryan Ryan Kors Guard was a reporter for NBC affiliate K. P. R. C. Net. I Responding officer know something's wrong. A car crashed into a garage door engine on wheel spinning he looks around reaches in number one to shut that engine off so the tire. Stop the the front passenger window was shattered inside. A woman in the driver's seat slumped to her right and he looks over realizes there's nothing that he can do to to help her And realizes he's got a call for investigators. The woman had been shot through the hand it was gallery within minutes the Houston police. Department's it's homicides want arrived at the rear of the townhouse complex and I went back to killers house police over there and yellow ribbons no grunting crumbs EXAC exactly galleries friend Rabin says he hadn't heard the gunshots over the phone. He was still searching searching for an accident scene and wondered if that lay behind the tate. What did you think it happen? I don't know I couldn't connect dots breath. It would take a long time to connect those dots because this was a mystery almost too surreal to believe and solving it would take not just years but also at least one more murder when we return love ones get the news. That Gallo Ray is Scott. He called me and told me I couldn't speak up my moist white ball. ooh and later or cellphone her purse all that stuttle still. They're all there no robbery. So what's going on here but we really don't know but someone does know it was something she said. I've got a lot to tell you if you'll listen to and when Corrie beaver said good night to his girlfriend galleria Elleray on that Sunday evening in January. He had no idea he would never see her again. The couple had only been dating a little while but the young romance demands was moving quickly real over there. I think we were. We were head over heels for one another. I mean we were together. Twenty four seven for two months. They'd met in school at Md.. Anderson Galleria who moved here from Iran in two thousand seven was studying molecular genetics addicts after graduation she'd hoped to become a CSI one afternoon. Corey was waiting for his sister-in-law Nasreen who happened the walk out with a classmate gallery and I told Miss Arena was like yeah. She's pretty cute and then so sure enough. She went and told her she had a party. And then we started dating a couple of days after that gallery and Corey. Fill fast and hard. Would you like her when she was cute. But what else. She just seemed really league genuine and caring like he didn't have to change anything about yourself and so I was really comfortable being with her. These young couples often do do they spent every spare minute together. Driving School movies dinners. Were just hanging out at all and during much of that time they had company. So you guys all hang around together pretty much yep the other couple in this foursome Nisreen and her husband. Kuti Curry's identical twin Lena Serene and gallery. We were the ones driving to school all the time together coming home together so they got a lot closer than because To close friends dating twin brothers. Right right I'm thinking you were probably not unhappy to see her with your son. I could tell he was happy. Surely Surely McCormick. The twins mom thought her boys had both done. Well cody with Nasreen Corey with gallery as a mom. That's that's what you want. And she seemed like a very good person. slightness rain was a good person. You know surely loved the Energy Delray brought to her household. That's supposed to be the time in your life where the kids moved out. And it's just you and the bomber any yes but I preferred it. That way was nice and there they were all happy. Gilroy had just spent Christmas with the family gallery. After Waif who are in cody's brother. Adam remembered how thrilled she was. She'd gotten a number of Christmas presents for Corey and for other people and was just so excited to give them out selfish. Just this ball of energy you cut bouncing around and so happy. She wanted other people to be happy. That ball of energy was what friends like Kathy. Soltani loved show is is full of life. She was funny crazy full of energy. Everything packaged in tiny body altogether but very loud super loud. Yes they're animated. She couldn't hide her feelings about anything about about the traffic about anything. She loved church playing piano dancing. And most of all our friends and family killary the center of attention in the best sort of way she was just screaming all the time on running and jumping and even hugging people. It wasn't a normal heart hardship kind of hanging on your neck because she was so petit ten so full of life so she she was very sweet and so that morning after gallery was murdered. Kathy could hardly believe it when she received a call that was so surreal. Our of our friends from our grew he called me and said have you heard the news about Galleria. Thought she was about to hear good news. I I was so excited I thought I said. Did she get engaged and He said No. Obviously you haven't heard the news this morning or last night I said No. Why the news on then he told me I? I couldn't speak up my voice Bonding very sad. anyways I try to talk but I couldn't get my voice I couldn't hear my own voice on i. Finally I was yelling but this guy fairly faint voices coming out galleries galleries friend Rabin found himself just as speechless. Hard to talk about her. Sometimes after this corey was among the last to find out he was looking forward to seeing gallery later that day but he hadn't turned on the news before he drove over to her place. There is a bunch of news crew in the alleyway. This report comes up to me and she taps on the glass. You don't know anything about the thirty year old girl that lives compartment right there and I was like yeah. That's where my girlfriend lives and Point I don't know like just a million in pot started racing through my head. She just told me you need to go talk to the family. And so I just jumped out of my car knocked on the door. And and her her data answered as what happened to her. And he's like Geller is dead and it's like it sounds weird but I was thinking maybe she was just in a car accident or something not that like. She was just what happens next. So I I go into their house and her mom's just Iraq Gillary Burgers Bagherzadeh as parents Abraham and Monterey but a tough time. You're remembering what are you thinking about. I couldn't live. Wouldn't you think had happened Badillo. Because she has no any enemy grief and questions were fighting for space in everyone's heads and not one single answer would come easily coming out. Detectives focus on Gallo race friend Rabin the way it turns out was also her ex. I remember calling a friend and telling them if you don't hear from me by tomorrow known look from because I sent something is wrong and you're going to be blamed for it possibly when dateline continues. There's so many in Houston Easton knew and loved gallery so many came to celebrate and to mourn her. That chapel is. I think it's Seats seven hundred people and it was fully packed. There were people standing. People were outside pitcher her. That was the big picture of her and that was a sad day. Her friends were there. Her professors were there in the few number of years to live in. Houston she knows. So many people at all of the Minnesota Jacques. Everybody our life change in Dan for her family. Even that outpouring of sympathy could not blunt their pain. You know when I laugh. My laughing is changed is not like before As murder also the beavers family hard and not just corey the rest of the foursome Nisreen and cody and he was was just losing it over gallery and then I can hear Nisreen in the background screaming and crying all of them fall into pieces at the same time while the family dealt with the shock. Investigators puzzled over who was responsible for galleries. Murder Houston P. Eighty detective Richard Bolton now retired ran lead on the case. He remembers the crime scene that night. A jumble of shattered glass pass burnt rubber and blunt and you can smell like burning tire and you can see evidence on the ground where you know. The car was just sitting there and just spending for a while. Investigators began with the contents of her car which explained exactly what kind of crime time this was not for her cell phone. Her purse her wallet. All that stuff of Geller's was still. They're all there so no robbery. Obviously no sexual assault no sexual assault. So what's going on here at that point time. We you know we really don't know the forensic team went to work. galleria Elleray was shot from outside the passenger window. That bullet passing straight through her hat and fragmenting on the ground. Another grazed her arm. I am launched in the driver's side door. We're kind of gun killer. According tire firearms analysis. It was the thirty eight caliber. Pretty Common Yes sir. Outside the car detectives notice one of the lights over. The garage was out making a deemed driveway. Even dimmer. WHO's not a killer at work irk? Somebody might have reached up on screwed light bulb or could be standing there. Hi CSI swab. The light for DNA dusted it for prints and then did a full work up on galleries car. They found a latent print and sent that off to on the ground near her car. A cigarette rut evidence. Perhaps that someone had been waiting for gallery and pass the time smoking reporter Ryan Cores Guard. They didn't know where it came from or who might have come from so at that point they gathered that. DNA evidence thinking there might be something on there to get that process. Investigators canvas the townhouse complex. WCHS DOOR TO DOOR NEIGHBOR to neighbor turns out one neighbor had heard something and then peaked out his window. He heard two gunshots and then moments let's later. He saw either light blue or silver Honda accord or Toyota Camry fleeing the same. It wasn't much to go on but it was a start now. The detective wondered among the millions in the greater Houston Metro area. How did the killer select gallery? They I needed to trace her steps in the minutes before her murder in the car received yelled at night at a gas station the station enhanced security cameras. So you look at that tape of Gallery in the gas station right anybody with her. No she seem in any way upset or worried Nelson certain she's not looking over your shoulder Nassar. She purchases a pack of cigarettes and she leaves the videotape. Doesn't show any other cars. You know pull him behind her following her or anything honey like that which brought the cops back to Rabin Bandar who arrived at the murder scene just minutes after the shooting. The cops came to me and I was trying to go to see what's going on and they said who are you. I said I'm looking for my friend. And I was on the phone with her and and They grabbed me and put me in the back of the Chalker. Keep you from learning anything. Exactly of course they asked Rabin about the nature of his relationship with gallery. We learned that in the past that he gallery Haditha each other. We had a lot of similarities. You know personality wise on all that Latte. We had a strong feelings but we clash so much so we decided to stay friends so you made the transition from boyfriend girlfriend to to to be pals exactly so And that worked out it worked out. She was dating somebody else. I was having somebody else to then. Then you're okay with that and we both okay and Police asked you about all of this. I'm sure they did about whether there was any lingering anger that things haven't worked out between you and gallery. That was the main concert. Yes so Rabin's presence at the scene right after the murder remained at the very least least provocative detectives. We just don't know at this time we don't really know. I remember calling the friend telling them you know. I don't know what happened but if you so you don't hear anything from me like by tomorrow known. Look for me because I sent. Something is wrong and I didn't know Oh and that you're going to be blamed for it possibly now Rabin wasn't the only person detectives have their eyes on Gallery. Had A number of France. Popularity can sure complicate a murder investigation. Coming out turns out. She'd recently had an unfriendly. Friendly encounter online. They had gotten argument on facebook. Like that Friday. You'll be sorry the next time that I see you. Aw reassembling a murder. Victim's life is a process that moves slowly even though those doing it desperately want just the opposite and so- Houston police focused on the hours before galleries life ended and that landed them on the doorstep of her new Boyfriend Cory beavers. We learned that she was at the core sales that Evening Hill. They watch movies and then left. I think before midnight. Detectives detectives were eager to talk with Cory. Cory says he was eager as well even left his number with a reporter at the crime scene hoping he says that cops would reach out to him so I gave her my phone number like another. Detectives are going to want to talk to me. Because I'm the boyfriend so if you can just pass on my information into them when they get here. Corey came into talk the evening after galleries murder straight from the book. Investigators asked him where he was when Galleria. It was shot at home. Corey said except for quick run out for a soda. After she left I went to a gas station and I told him about this after a long conversation. Corey was free to go for the time being Houston. PD had other leads to run down now. Like a friend of Rabin's Galleria had words with just a couple of days before she was murdered. They had gotten argument on facebook like that Friday. I I think he he had threatened her. You'll be sorry the next time that I see you. And she just Kinda like laughed about it and it was like he's just being silly boy so investigators ran a fool check on the facebook friend. We get you know court orders to stuff his cell phones and he's at a bar so we're able to you know roll this person. I got the feeling it's him then. Another possibility jealous. Father had been embroiled in a lawsuit with former employer. A lot of money was at stake along with some people's reputations. I know it was for quite a bit of money and so I told them maybe they were out for some kind of revenge or something against her dad. Gilroy lived with her parents and so police wondered. You've heard murder. Could somehow be tied to that galleries. Fran Dan. Cathy Sultani acted as the family. Surrogate police told you they were investigating the possibility that the loss of galleries father was involved in against his former employer. Employer literally looked at that. Yeah these are these are routes. They did go but they weren't giving us every little detain unless it was something that they thought they should come on check with the family and get more information on the list went on investigators. Instigators looked at another ex-boyfriend and came by his place for a talk and he had a solid alibi. Detectives also checked out a report of a man who bragged about killing women in the area. Where Gallery was shot? He turned out to be disturbed but not seidel and they spent some time on tracking down a carjacking crew. That was working galleries neighborhood. Well we had the gang task force go over there. We're thinking maybe this was the same group trying to still another car and didn't work out and they shot her. It didn't work out in the shot but their weapon of choice didn't match what killed gallery. He said man we had shotgun. He said we rob people at Shotgun. Then there was that thing about galleries father's lawsuit after a closer look. That fizzled out to two. They went down one after another after another trail and never got anywhere after working through each new person of interest investigators hitters turned back to one of their first. Corey may called in and wanted to polygraph me. which I thought was weird because this was like three or four months later? And it's like why didn't then you polygraph me. The first you know within the first week if you're trying to track down who did this and the answer might be that you're so distraught. Then that that Reading Ryan made any difference I just remember they were asking me these questions. That were what color your shirt was and that was like the baseline question and then they would ask you like did you shoot that girl and then I remember Rabba get really upset because they were just calling her. That girl Koi wasn't just upset about how they were questioning. He was upset. They weren't going harder on him. You were upset because you weren't under enough suspicion right well because in my mind it's like if you're not looking at me what are you GonNa do when you have a guy that actually did it. Do you think he's going to tell you that he did it. So the fact that you didn't feel under sufficient suspicion rite aid. You feel like they weren't working very hard right exactly well. Okay but maybe they got a honest uninvolved vibe off of you bright and even if Corey Saudi should have faced more scrutiny. He passed the polygraph and his cell records backed up his alibi. Corey was nowhere around the Yo dairy at the time of her death. This time. The boyfriend didn't do it. So where does that leave. Detectives maybe whole the other theory would provide the answers coming up. Investigators learned delray had protested against the regime in her native country autry. There was one theory that the Iranian government could have been involved really at added to the intrigue of this case when Dateline continues with all all of the possible theories of galleries murder one simply came from the fact that she sought the spotlight for a cause she dreamt of regime change in her native Iran in this country. Gallery demonstrated organized. Protest groups did anything to make her case. The Way I met her is my mom noticed Ganor because she was chanting so loudly. My Mom Cops are on her shoulder older. Ansett young girl. Don't do that. It's not good for your throat on your voice. They won't hear you Iran and she said no I'm so frustrated and and that's why I'm doing it so loud that's Davey met and after that loud seems to be sort of the default setting. Geller definitely yes. I don't know oh how that voice fit in that tiny body protesting the Iranian regime was also how she met her friend Rabin Bondar she. She was very outspoken person. And in a way feminist. I can say that so. She took this pretty seriously shit. Did she did and she was pretty involved. Did you ever worry that. She was too outspoken. But that was GONNA get in trouble. Yes you did. Did you talk to her about that. Oh Yeah and what would you say. She's not worried. I have to save the took now with Geller as murder. In the headlines there was quite a lot of speculation. There was one theory that was out. There that did the Iranian government could have been involved That's because she was very involved in these appro. Human rights campaigns in Iran was very outspoken. About it would even go to rallies so it was thought it was a belief but really it added to the intrigue of this case. Were you concerned that that part of Geller's personality Monday Governor General we were we reached out to. FBI We even met with an FBI retired agent who is Probably an expert in like Middle East affairs to try to determine if this could be something politically done while the fence looked into it. Police revisited. Someone they'd met the the crime scene. I believe that I was the main suspect because I was on the phone with her I've been back and forth to Polish Elissa session downtown. What police asking you just about everything? For one thing. Detectives noticed Rabin had a photo of guns on his facebook page and we went back and we met with him again over that you know. What did you see what what made you meet with them? He's got guns. Let's go to see if he's still hasn't way maybe he's got a thirty eight can compare and that definitely got police attention. A police attention that access to everything. I can't imagine all my life all my facebook. We could you feel the wait. Could you feel the way I found it that. Yes that wasn't the last time they talk doc with Rabin they asked me to Take a polygraph test you. Did I did willingly. You didn't hire an attorney Rabin gene told us he thought he was the main suspect. Was He right at one point time he was they. I mean but everybody was months went by with no answers in galleries murder. Uh what are the police not much. Everybody was in this bubble of confusion and frustration and so many leads on so many calls through crime stoppers galleries family offered two hundred thousand dollars for information. How many tips came in on crime? Stoppers for that giant reward unless I ten to fifteen yeah ten to fifteen real legitimate tips that you would end up spending man hours jagged out Yep and any of that go anywhere. No I mean took us to a couple people who were. I'd say mentally unstable maybe trying to collect two hundred thousand thousand dollars on her way you know. And forensics results from the crime scene weren't very telling the light that was suspiciously dimmed ceus is couldn't pull up print or any DNA from it. The latent print off the hood of galleries car. It belonged to a mechanic who'd worked on it recently Lee and he had a solid alibi and that cigarette but they found lead nowhere. We process it and it really didn't get us anything Kevin Then Rain No. DNA as for the theory that the Iranian government was behind galleries murder those close to her had always regarded it. It as preposterous. We are not important. They wouldn't waste their energy and time to come and do something like this jewelry. Would the big enough fish. No none of us was eventually. Investigators became convinced as well. The speculation amounted to nothing. We looked but there was nothing. New suggested that Iranian Iranian government had anything to do with this and galleries friend Rabin seemed to be clearing himself. Results from his is polygraph showed nothing suspicious and as for his cell records. Hey said onus outside tower near his home when he's on the phone would gallery. What again exactly where he said he was all along? That said detective still weren't done with Rabin. They thought he might have buried memories. There's that awful night day hypnotize me. Maybe my unconscious mind. You know. We'll tell them something the help I don't think so. And I and I was in June six months after galleries murder. Her friends and family gathered to marker birthday. It was memorialized in this video. Jealous Boyfriend Cory. Beavers was there too and clearly struggling. There's no getting over something like that is there. It's kind of always there you you learn to live with it but I don't. It's doesn't go away now Summer crept into fall and so did the investigation no breaks no arrests and then in the northern end of the city late afternoon as dusk approached came a call to nine one coming up another murder. She found him unresponsive on the floor of the apartment. Could it have anything to do with Galloway Elleray. A witness is about to speak up issues as I've got a lot to tell you if you'll listen to me in. The future has a way of arriving unannounced. One Minute Corey beavers life revolved around a woman named gallery. The next she was is gone murdered in cold blood. I didn't want to believe she wishes come for months. It seemed the ache and anguish would never end and then just as the heaviness lifted enough for Corey to refocus on school and a series of upcoming exams. If you found them in your out of the program. Graham life delivered another serving of the worst news possible it was November twelfth. Two thousand twelve and Corey. beavers woke up feeling Ling drizzle. I was just like I was out of it. Like my brain fog when people talk about that. Twenty twenty connection that that happened that day twin connection cody and corey that innate sense that one twin has when something is up with the the other corey didn't know what that something was at the time his mom Shirley McCormick was first to hear the devastating news around midnight got knock on the door that no parent wants to get voice right. They asked me if I was cody's mother and so I asked them yes I am and is he okay and they said no she she immediately headed for the home of Kuti's identical twin brother who worry about one thirty in the morning and I kind of oak up and rolled over and saw that my text message. She said I'm at your front door. Come come open the door. What'd you say? She just said somebody somebody. Somebody killed cody and then how I remember a whole lot just ten months after the murder of his girlfriend. Corey was confronted with the death of his twin brother. Someone who'd been as constant as his own shadow for twenty eight years. We are really good growing up kind of like. Here's my best friend. Any always he always had my back but then kinda started to drift as we got older. But we were always close now two members of that happy foursome had died violently. Mostly will never know anybody. That's been murdered right exactly. It's one thing if two people were murdered at one point and then it's another that like one person is murdered and then ten months later somebody else's murdered Cudi beavers had been shot shot to death in his own apartment. Sergeant James Do save the Harris County sheriff's Office was among the first on the scene of Cody's murder. Could you tell what kind of weapon killed. Cody I cannot. I cannot tell you at that time. What kind of weapon? It was It was later determined to be a small caliber cartridge casings. At the scene. There were none. It was about four thirty in the afternoon that cody's wife Nasreen stepped into the apartment to find the TV on and the COPPERY coppery set of blood in the air. She found him unresponsive on the floor of the apartment and she immediately began crying and shouting and a neighbor heard that activity and when he came over He actually helped her to dial nine one one to report it. They can't believe that happened. If you're like a nightmare I really wanted that dominate. It was obviously extremely upset. Crying This what you would expect from someone that is lost someone they love and at twenty four Nasreen. Beavers had only been married a little more than a year and now she was a widow. I'm sure you feel at this. This point tremendous sympathy for her. Yes but it would be a mistake to sort of look only at that and let off the hook here. Correct while the worst thing an investigator so you can do is develop what we call. Tunnel Vision Yes it was still wide open at that point so the homicide detective took the wife statement. According to Nasreen the last time she had seen her husband was at about five thirty that morning she had left for work at that time he he would walk her to her car and still dark at that hour. Yes sir it was still dark. The newlyweds had only been in their new apartment for a month. They're so misery and explained she had the only key to the front door. He would leave it alive because she had a key she had the cat so somebody's somebody's maybe observing their routine and goes into the apartment knowing it's unlocked while they're walking to her car right possible. The detective was all ears. It's listening for anything that didn't ring true particularly of interest. How Nisreen would explain the contents of her handbag by the Dan? You came into contact with Nasreen. She did have a gun he was carrying a gun. Yes as the sky darkened the detective. Put the new widow in his car. He he had more questions that it turned out. Nisreen had answers for things he'd never imagined asking. She told me she said sort of a new say. I've got a lot to tell you if you'll listen to me coming up stories of a diabolical plot with other victims. She was being held at the House. She's being essentially kidnapped. Yes and later unveiled may connect cody's murder back to Gallo raise. It had several license plate numbers written down on it and there was at least one address when dateline continues. Hey Guys Willie geist here. This week on the Sunday. Sit down. PODCAST I get together with one of the biggest stars not just in country but in all of music. Nick Miranda Lambert get our conversation for free wherever you download your podcasts Continuing with our story. I cory beavers girlfriend was murdered. Then his twin brother was taken to. You know mostly will never know anybody. That's been murdered exactly coincidence or were the killings connected. Did a witness is about to speak up. She put a lot out there. I'm in the story. Kept growing a story of murder and money. To how much money did he wasn't entitled. Oh bill hundreds of thousands of dollars a scheme so sinister. It could only come from the darkest kind of mastermind. He's an evil man worse. Then Charles. Manson err again Josh Michael wits in the wake of murder those left behind struggle to make sense of the senseless and someone loses a twin. The agony can be even more profound a mirror image vanished after cody. beavers murder came haunting question. Was it possible that his identical twin brother Corey galleries boyfriend was the real target. It was this all a case of mistaken identity in the beginning. I thought what if they were after cory. What if Galleria on Corey where we're into something? I mean we've talked about it. I even go to kill by Mr Yes by mistake. Not According to Cody beavers wife who said said he is murder was no mistake. She had put a lot out there when the story kept growing the story Nisreen told. The detective began three years earlier. In the fall of two thousand nine. She enrolled in a local community college. There she met Corey beavers. Who set her shop with his twin brother? Cody as rain. And Cody. Were instantly a couple soon. She ditched her job started wearing makeup and as her relationship with cody grew more serious Nisreen even converted to Christianity her father Ali. Hassan was an immigrant from Jordan and when he found out he was not pleased he had his beliefs and he forbid her from seeing cody. Who wouldn't let her date played any any boy without his approval? Misery and set. Her father was trying to control her and confined Nasreen to the Family John. She was being held at the house by her mother and siblings miseries. How old at this point at that point white? She was twenty three. If I'm not mistaken and she's being essentially kid that not allowed to leave yes it was the summer of two thousand eleven and Nasreen said she wanted to escape when her father left her in the custody of her stepmother and sister so he could travel back to Jordan Nisreen SAR chance. She said that she climbed out a window and then went to a a neighbor's house and ask them to give her a ride. The neighbor did and that's when she Went to the house in spring workout. He was yes sir. Kuti Corrie's mother surely remembers when Nisreen suddenly suddenly showed up on her doorstep so misery incomes and lives with. You shouldn't have any clothes and a now. She only had the clothes on her back literally. Literally I came on one day from work and she was Cleaning House but she had owned cody. Shorts Cody's t-shirt in she's he's very very tiny so we we have to get used clothes so those of you. I don't know I'm Emma Rescuer. But you know this person that's needy and on your doorstep. I don't know I like to help nope. Two weeks later. Nisreen and Cooney were married by a justice of the peace when you saw them together just stars in their eyes he was low of yes they both were very much. There were some however did not not wish the newlyweds happily ever after. According to Nasreen her father was way past anger at her decision to run off and Mary Cody Levers he became. She says dangerously unhinged obsessed to the point of stalking Nasreen. Her new husband uh-huh and his family many of her neighbors had told her that a person that matching her father's description had approached them and offer them money for information aware. She and cody were living. You eventually confirmed this with the neighbors and spring. Yes we do. So misery is telling the truth about this. Yes the stalking continued after. Nasreen and cody were married and living in their own place. In fact one neighbor reported that a few days before cody was murdered. Stranger had come to her door asking where cody lived. She talked to the person through the door and she only looked through the people at the individual. And so you get a sketch with somebody looked through a people craig. The man in the sketch did not look like like Nasreens. Dad but Nasreen said it might resemble one of her relatives. She told the detectives that gun she'd been carrying in her pocket. Book at the crime scene had been one of many. She and her husband had recently acquired to protect themselves from Nasreens family. You examine that. Yes same caliber as the weapon. That killed her husband. Elsa did she insists on an attorney never and she took a polygraph and passed. Yes anything she tell you not check out. She said proved to be falls out that I can think of no so. You're growing more confident that she's giving the straight story. It's surely in that way at that point. After the murder Nisreen had no place to go. She couldn't go back to the apartment. She shared with cody. That was a crime scene gene so she called her mother-in-law Shirley McCormack room just devastated both both surely and misery in had a bad feeling with cody's killer or killers still on the loose. They didn't feel safe anywhere familiar. We didn't go back to buy a house to spend the night because not serve. No so he went to Spend the night listen. France with some friends Nisreen slept with me that night and just cried all night. Call out for cody For Nasreen haunted by family secrets. There would be many more sleepless nights coming got. Investigators learn gallery at had her own run in witness. Rene's father turns out. Your daughter stood up to him and he didn't like that it. It was in the sterile confines of an interview room. That Nasreen beavers unspoiled the tangled tangled facts of her life. What she'd seen what she'd heard what she thought all of it was interesting? One nugget was a true showstopper. She told me about her close friend. Yellow Ray who had been killed earlier that year. She expressed best that she had concerns that her father was involved in the murder of her friend. Gallery that might have been surprising to sergeant. Do say but it already occurred to some people close together. A blogger Zodda Gillary had known all about Nisreen family troubles. She even had a couple of run INS with Nisreen. Dan Ali Hassan over the phone. At one point he had called gallery and she kind of just told him off and said like just let her liver life. She's old enough to do her own thing at this point. You're not in charge of her anymore. You prison for that goal. She she told me about this call. Corey beaver says that about a month later. I'll ears on contacted delray again. She said hello and then he said is resist that Iranian bitch and then that's when she dislike went off on him the tiny woman with the big voice let Ali Hassan hear exactly what she thought of him then. She started like yelling at him and Farsi and My understanding would be that she was cursing him out gallery. Generate may have had the last word but her parents say their daughter was rattled. Turns out your daughter stood up to him. Not Very many people stood up up to him. He didn't like that you're known anybody like him before like him. A few days days later gallery was murdered. Anto Corey several times when he would talk about gallery at faint. It might have been Ali really really probably Ali Jobe conclusions. She was a voice on the phone to him. What he's GonNa kill her? Hell no just I just felt like he had something to do with it. When did you first hear the name earlier on I heard about it after code had been killed and then I started hearing from the family about about her friend's father being after her on? I I kept saying. Why didn't you tell me all these things that sound? That's make sense. Richard Bolton the Houston detective working the gallery case says Ali. Hassan had been on his radar in between gallery and county for ten. The months prime suspects. Well I'M NOT GONNA say suspects and persons of interest it was rogue. Being a person of interest was corey. Your you know Ali. Our Son brought off the bat. Nisreen Saturday I did. It really seems to me like he wasn't at the top of your list and I'm thinking that the proof of that is interesting. Well we have no evidence to arrest him me. She's making an allegation but there's nothing to substantiate check that while it might seem far fetched that a couple of telephone conversations between strangers could lead to a murder molten. Says he took you can seriously. He brought Ali Hassan in for an interview and asked him if he knew anything about gallery talking to him about gallery. You know I mean. I don't know her. I don't know nothing on what you're talking about. What Open with us about anything you know it's like Sprang anelle have a two by four. They kept an eye on her. Sop even checked out his phone records. They're not even on the phones at that hour that I you know and so we're not able to tell L. whether he was there or not so misters had something to do with his records. Don't cell phones. Dan indicated at all now. Now after cody's murder Sergeant James do say of the Harris County Sheriff's office needed to talk to Ali our saw and he says the man who showed up at his interrogation Meru didn't act at all like the Monster Nisreen described came across as the poor helpful. Father that his his daughter had when it ran away from home and he was merely trying to find her and bring her home. Just help me get her back Hess. I explained to him that I was there. Are you to the murder of cody. BIEBER's and that's what I was investigating. He said he didn't know the guy. Sorry that happened to him but he didn't know anything about it. Uh well say interviewed Ali. Hassan police searched the earth. John Home. That turned up some guns and Ammo but nothing that could be definitively notably matched to either crime-scene however two vehicles were parked in the yard with curious contents. One held some knives wigs knit caps and gloves in the glove box of one of the cars. Investigators found this an envelope with scribbles on both sides. It had several license plate numbers written down on it and there was an address at least one address on that envelope. Sure altogether it seemed suspicious. That wasn't enough to make an arrest. It wasn't enough for a conference call. We had had of course US we had Houston Police Department. We had Recovery County Sheriff's Office of Inspector General Ed FBI and Homeland Security courtesy. That's a lot of artillery against just one guy yes by the time mourners had marked the first anniversary bursary of Delray Staff Sergeant. Do say had assembled a task force and Ali Your saw was squarely in its crosshairs. Just coming up. Investigators make discovery at the earth. San's house a GPS unit with a story to tell they were able to recover. Data which put that unit not only to the exact location but within the same date and time period of the cody Merck. Commend Dateline continues. The if Ali Hassan was a murderer he was a good one. There'd been no fingerprints no DNA no shell casings left behind. Hi that either crime scene. There'd been no witnesses no murder weapons Korean cody's older brother. Adam says the family was not shy about asking investigators questions. What are you going to do to solve this murder and hold the people accountable? They listened but we were given very limited response. We're working the case very generic kind of answers. What were they doing? They had Ali Hassan under constant surveillance and with the help of the fat so they were digging through every part of her son's life arrived in the US from Jordan in nineteen seventy nine and married miseries mother. An American woman who was blind she told investigators about years of physical and sexual abuse at the hands of Earth John. No charges were ever filed his second wife. A Jordanian woman named Sh- Mu was only in her teens when they married by two thousand fourteen Ali. Hassan was the father of twelve. How did he support that family? They will not with a nine to five Gig. Some of the allegations that Nasreen had brought forth worth that her father was involved in multiple frauds odds FBI agent. Carlos constant was a member of the task force. He says the search of the compound backed up Nisreen claims and revealed a paper hieber trail from local fraudster federal Franz Federal Fraud with the Social Security Administration benefits frauds. Special agent at Casta says some of the ripoffs offs schemes were as ingenious as they were brazen in order to boost his government benefits. Kosta says I'll hear Psalm filed fraudulent fraudulent claims in the names of his children and then put multiple mailboxes at the end of his driveway to receive the checks. You how much money did Mr Shawn get from the federal government that he wasn't entitled though several hundreds of thousands of dollars over a period of time in May two thousand fourteen a a year and a half after the cody beavers murder and more than two years. After the murder of Galleria bloggers the full weight of the Task Force landed on Ali Hassan doorstep while helicopters circled overhead the FBI executed the search. While it's SWAT team served arrest warrants parts and by the end of the day. I'll your son. His wife and another daughter were all in federal custody on fraud charges and in the end was it easier to prove credit card for a lot of social security fraud against Ali than than any murder charge. Yes we removed food boxes and boxes of documents out of the House. The attic was full. I think we stayed out there for two or three days. Police call you and say allier sounds been arrested. Yeah they told him. They told us that they picked him up for the fraud. But we'RE GONNA try to turn that into a mountainside prosecution correct. Yeah we know that this was like how we're going to try and get him off the street by now. Investigators thought they had a handle on earth. John's possible motive live from murder. In the case. Of Cody it was clear. Ersan disapproved of the marriage and murder one way to end it as for Delray. She'd never even met earlier song. It seemed her crime was speaking her mind over the phone to a man who resented any defiance dance from women and she didn't care she defended now. She talked before she thought. Investigators had in fact learned that one of Ali. Hassan is cars had been near the delray crime scene and so that got roussin indicted for galleries murder in addition to the fraud charges. They still didn't have quite enough evidence to add on the murder of cody beavers. So surveillance of the earth. John Home continued and that is what eventually really produced a critical piece of evidence. One of our surveillance teams contacted me and they informed me that they observe observe two sons accessing an area of the roof line of the House and the rear of the house which they believe was it was a hidden compartment. INVESTIGATORS RECOVER TO GPS units. That had been hidden in a space behind the gutters. The leader unit was operable over a period of months forensic tax at the FBI computer lab managed to coax one of them back to life. They they were able to recover data which put that unit not only to the exact location but when the same date and time period of the cody murder her it's a roadmap from Ollie's house to cody's House on the day of the Murder Day. The murderer actually departs Ali's primarily residents. All all the way to the apartment or quotas murder in April two thousand fifteen. Three years after gallery. Bloggers and cody. Beavers were killed Donald Ali. Hassan was charged with capital murder. In both cases. We just Kinda WanNa justice and it was just a long time to wait for. The wheat wasn't close to over and neither was the trail of bodies. Adis coming out. All the earth's on goes on trial and it's unlike anything prosecutors have experienced before. There's a moment in court or alley stares at you and goes like this like keys wringing her neck yes she didn't like the dateline. We don't quote tolstoy that often but somehow it seems appropriate here. He said famously that each unhappy family is unhappy in its own way few could have imagined a family as unhappy or as seemingly only dysfunctional as the one headed by Ali or SOM- a father of twelve now charged with murdering his daughter's husband and her best friend and prosecutor said he had help from his wife and his eldest son realize it was really a family operation. He his wife Son Involved in this really trying to take everyone out of his daughters orbit In this alleged crime family. It's patriarch was the first stand trial. In June. Two thousand eighteen. The victims families and friends had waited six years during the summer in Houston everybody's frustrated anyways with the heat and then put on top of it courtroom and all the things that had to here at times it was. The air was super heavy when you're in the courtroom. You see Ali Hassan for the first time in person probably pretty hard to conceal your hatred for somebody like that. I don't even know if I hate him. I didn't really pay that much attention to him. I paid attention to the jury because they were the ones that would decide special prosecutors. Anna Emma's Marie Pram and John Stevenson prosecuted the people vs Ali Hassan their first hurdle explaining what they saw. Aw as the motive than all your son was enraged. His daughter had married outside the families. Faith he killed cody the Christian Christian husband and Geller the friend who talked back to him and who may have encouraged NASREENS relationship he wanted to kill all of those involved in bringing shame shame and dishonor in his mind to his family. Special prosecutors said this was a person's own twisted version of an already twisted notion known as honor killing. He's belief that a woman could be murdered for bringing shame her family and her religion. This is one man and one families extremist views that were taken to the extreme and led to the deaths of two innocent people. You already backers and cody beavers one of the things. You talked about an opening arguments this how this isn't really representative of Islam. And how you're not putting the Muslim religion on trial. This is the way Ali. Hassan interpreted religion right just one man's crazy beliefs and how he used those two stock and murdering people the tricky relationship between fathers and daughters always comes with its own supply of baggage which that doesn't usually include murder this time misery and said it did. She took the stand to describe a lifetime of abuse abuse and control. It was very emotional for Nasreen to get on the stand. She Just being in the same room again with her father who she knows killed her friend and her husband. And he's looking to run out. Looking staring daggers at her when came the evidence prosecutors said linked Ursa onto both crimes the data pulled from that. GPS Unit and remember that envelope found an earth. Science glovebox turns out the address on. It traced back the former home of galleries parents and as for those license plate numbers. One of those plate. Numbers came back to two galleries vehicle. At one of the other ones came back from a vehicle. That cody beavers. Had rented and a key piece piece of evidence came from combing through the files of the Texas Highway Patrol. We data search of All or sands vehicles or the license plates numbers and found that that vehicle had been stopped on the day of galleries murder. Stop for speeding. He was stopped for speeding and the GPS trooper's vehicle go ahead DASHCAM Earth's on getting out of the vehicle. He tells the officer he isn't feeling well and can be seen sinking to his knees. How long after she was shot was only in his family stopped by DPS? I WanNa say something like forty five minutes something of that nature and that's about how long it would take to drive from galleries parents house where the murder occurred to where they were stopped. That's correct was this video that also told prosecutors Ali. Hassan wasn't alone his wife Xu was with it was a young man. Seated in the backseat. Prosecutors say that was earth on Sun the seem this time offering evidence proving all that would be a lesson in the not so happy family dynamic and Matthew told the jury he heard on some talk about the shootings and and then there was a person's wife Schmo after years in jail. She flipped and agreed to testify about both murders in exchange for the promise us of Reduced Jail Time. She's kind of the Lynch Pin. All of this century. She sort of gave you everything that a guilt side for the outside hi to she was first galleries person's wife Hsinchu admitted she was there waiting in the car while Galleria was was killed or San supposedly got out of the vehicle to approach her car. He was gonNA try to coax her out of the vehicle she would not roll. Roll the window down. Wouldn't get out of the vehicle. She testified it was their son. The scene who at the direction of his father pulled the trigger schmooze move also testified. She was there when Cudi was killed again waiting in the car. This time she said Ali did the shooting himself and she was able to provide us with enough information. Things that had happened at both scenes that we could corroborate with the things that had happened happened. Or maybe something that had said to her like she had never been in to cody's apartment but he described it to her and stated they have a cat let things that she wouldn't have known had he not told her throughout trial Ali. Hassan was a menacing presence in the courtroom kind kind of had to restrain myself a couple of times and I had to take a couple of deep breaths but it was like a sadness that then just like immediately turned to to anger because the guy is sitting like right there there was a moment in court. Were always stares at you and goes like this. I didn't say it but other people saw it like he's ringing your neck. Yes he didn't like be a man who was threatening even in custody lead prosecutors to ask ask your son would do. If he were to walk free I had a lot of fears for people's safety because because I figured he would be very focused on the people that spoke out against him so all these people were going to be his new. Hit List if you will. I'm never tried a case where you really thought. These people's lives were in danger coming up all. We are. Sawn sits down with US and makes a stunning allegation against his own daughter. She left a message for us. That you will all up so misery and the real villain Getty Ed. When dateline continues for four weeks the jury listened as prosecutors carefully painted a criminal portrait of Ali or SOM- tyrannical manacle father master manipulator vengeful killer? He's an evil man so he's worse than you expect it. I'm being I'm serious when I say he's worse than Charles Manson. He's incredibly evil and calculating and very deliberate with what he was doing. Uh but up close Ali Hassan defense. Team say they saw a different man. He was loving father. He loved her strove defense counsel. Alain Tanner his co-counsel Rudy. Duarte argued the case against her son was just a character attack. And more importantly weak and circumstantial I believe is at the end of the day. I've been Murph. Never wish you heard everything. You will not have any true idea. Yeah what happened at either mercy. I really believe our position was there was nothing to link him. To either of the crime scenes that one with gallery array or the one with cody beavers. There was no fingerprints. There's no DNA. There was nothing there except the testimony of his wives and his daughters. Okay but that's not nothing. That's his own family. Turning against it right. They had motives to his wife was given tremendous benefit by testifying against instagram. His daughter hated him. According to them Nisreen lied to the jury about matters both great and small at one one point she was telling the jurors said how none of the children in the house were ever allowed to have birthday parties and if they had a birthday party Ali would beat them all severely and then. I had a photo album with a bunch of family photographs. I started pass them to Alan. She was able to see you know that we had caught her an ally what about that. GPS EPS done that show stocking. Doesn't that show Ali going from his house to the scene of the murder. Well it shows someone go in there on that particular day it show someone but not necessarily him. We don't know who it was who was in the vehicle. Unlike many defendants Ali Hassan was not satisfied with being just a spectator at his own trial. He testified yes sir that was his choice. Yes Sir would you prefer that he didn't we. We just leave that up to the client every time Ali actually did really well only testify arly on testified to what he told. Investigators gators all along that the allegations against him from abuse to stocking murder were downright false and concocted by police and family members. who were out to get him? That's what Sam told me. We spoke by phone in lockup it about Islam put on triumph. According to John There were only two reasons why he was being accused of murder religious bigotry and family betrayal and the law enforcement for some time the government and the United States. They bullied blackmailed and intimidate and reports. On that. Put me here. you think everybody who testified against you did so because they were intimidated. Them that the main thing guests so your wife your nephew a few your daughter who testified against using that only happen because they were intimidated. Yes there were forced. If you don't do it we're going to get you and you think I think this is Islam on trial you yes. It just slammed because my daughter clamped to them that because Christian that I'm gonNA come after her. There's ream wanted you to. We were long and if you had left her alone. You probably wouldn't be in here if the police did not use the KGB technique out not be here and hand. According to his father. Misery was the one who threatened to kill anyone who got in her way. She left a message that you'll get to all of the going to catch on. We'll find out about so ms ruins the real villain. I have no I guess he is yes he is the gunman yes sir. I did not kill the girl because I never thought I'd nothing to do with her. And I did not kill the guy. I have nothing to do with them. I am not sorry that he died the hell he can go straight to hell but I didn't tell him. Uh Why can he go straight to hell because because he disrupted my family. You're just trying to protect his family. That the fact that your daughter had married this guy that that you saw that as a as a sort of personal offense against you and your family. That's all a coincidence. I did not kill the gate. I DID NOT HAVE ANYTHING TO I. Never uh-huh face-to-face number. Four the impact of wants Ali. Hassan had told his story it was for the jury to the side was was he a homicidal mastermind or a father looking out for people he loved. The jury definitely answered Sir that question. Let's just say that answer was easier to understand than the answer to this question. I WanNa talk about your son all in law. who was killed? Not Cody beavers. The other one coming up a chilling story from deep in the Earth. John Family's past Nasreen told me that her father had shot and killed that male because he did not want him to be married to his eldest daughter. It it took the jury just thirty five minutes to come to a verdict and Ali or sounds trial guilty of two counts of capital murder next Kim. The penalty phase. Yes and that was when jurors heard something as unexpected as it was disturbing the prosecution claimed Allier saw was something of a serial son-in-law killer Nasreen told me that her father had shot and killed that mail at their home because he did not want him to be married to her daughter so his eldest daughter. That's right in nineteen ninety nine. I'll ear Ceann shot and killed a man who married Nasreens oldest sister. It happened the Earth's on home north of Houston in Montgomery County Texas. They ended up getting prosecuted. It was not because we were advised that he had claimed. It was self-defense. And that it had been treated as such it gave ever appearance that it was self defense. Detective Jeff Wells of the Montgomery County Sheriff's Office reinvestigated that nineteen ninety nine killing for the task force. He says it started when Earth tones oldest daughter wanted to marry a man. He disapproved of in response. She says I on locked her in a room and beat her daily and Askar frequently during the beatings. Do you still love him but the couple was was persistent and eventually married just three weeks later. That new husband was dead in the earth. John Home and the scene looked like self defense. It's the son-in-law had a gun in his hand and Ali Hassan said he shot him to protect himself and his family prior to the the murder itself Ali had fouled report was a sheriff's department that the victim was Harassing the family threatening the family. It look like self defense. He was holding a gun a gun which had been fired trae. It had been nearly two decades later. A different story emerged searched. One that suggests that it wasn't self defense at all but premeditated murder members of the family now told detective whales that Ali Hassan on had made up the charges about his son-in-law harassing it they also said the scene was staged to look. As if there'd been a struggle and the Earth John then placed a gun in his dead son-in-law's hand. That case would never have been reexamined. If Hillary and cody hadn't hadn't been killed true it would not have because he got away he got away was it wasn't charge and he boasted about it too. Many people able when I spoke with him Ali. Hassan denied faking the crime scene and said the original investigation. Got It right. The killing was was an act of self-defense. He says he's wife and daughter. Who told investigators this story were simply lying? They made a historic. So everybody's lying here took to save. Their skin. Served the bus if that nineteen ninety nine case it'd been prosecuted differently. Shortly approach differently a lot of people might still be alive today. He got very lucky. It was almost like a perfect extorted for him. The crime scene officer that they had going to see nothing else whether I murder or second homicide detective was brand in new. She had an investing cases on her own yet. This was one of her. I had montgomery taken that investigation and worked at the way that they should have gallery. And Cody would still be alive. There was no end to the what ifs Corey. Beavers for one was haunted by the thought that even after the death of his girlfriend gallery Houston police might have done more. And if they take in the nineteen ninety nine killing into account when looking at Ali Earth Johnny thought his twin brother. Cody might still be alive. Uh seems like as time went on if he was the one that was responsible then police would have figured it out after we had already given them his name and there was no so. So maybe you were on right so I was like surely you know. They did their job and looked into him and if he was is responsible they would have found it by now but that wasn't the case after hearing about the first slain son-in-law jurors decided Ali your son should pay for taking the lives of gallery bloggers. Not and cody beavers with his own Scrub but moment of. I don't know just a huge relief because none of it brings back Kodner gallery but the very least that you want is justice in this person who stalked all of us so yes yes we are very happy. They don't have to deal with that anymore. Ursuline son the scene. The man his mother's Schmooze said shot gallery bloggers. aww later pleaded guilty to her murder and was sentenced to forty years in prison as for those federal fraud charges Sh- Mu Ali and his his daughter. All pleaded guilty. That daughter was never charged in connection with the murders but is charged with stalking Nasreen. The daughter pleaded did not guilty. Now all that's left for those who loved cody and Yellow Ray of the memories of who they were and perhaps apps visions of who they might have become. What's life been like since he's the building? There's a lot of times like I see something That I think of that I wish I could tell him about that back or just think like how excited he might be to hear this. And he's not there. Beavers lost both his twin brother and the woman he loved. She was intensely passionate about out everything. If you needed help she was going to help you whether you wanted her to or not. I'm guessing the reason I wanted to help. So many people is because the two of you taught her. That's the right thing to do. Yeah came from the to you. That's who she was. Yeah and I was angry and she told me I am life you and she was a person who is so helpful so full of energy and So positive imagine all the things she could've could've done for so many other people in her lifetime that's all for this edition of Dateline Line.

murder Nasreen Corey Mary Cody Levers investigator Rabin Dan Ali Hassan Houston Jordan Nisreen Nasreen cory Gallo Ray Fran Dan Donald Ali Geller Delray reporter Houston Police Department facebook
Apr 30, 2020

Sword and Scale Daily

13:12 min | 1 year ago

Apr 30, 2020

"Hello and welcome back to sword and skill daily. I'm your host Ryan Williams. It's Thursday April thirtieth coming up on certain skill daily the US Postal Service is offering a fifty thousand dollar reward for information leading to the arrest of conviction in the murder of Indianapolis Milk. Here you're Angeles Summers. In Washington state a thirteen year old suspect in a deadly shooting reportedly told investigators he committed the crime just because he felt like it authorities are asking for the public's assistance in locating missing soldier. Vanessa Gideon who vanished from her post at Fort Hood army base in Texas finally an Arizona. Police say they have evidence that man and his stepdaughter who reported missing last week maybe to see all this and more coming up on sort and scale daily the United States Postal Service is offering a fifty thousand dollar reward for information leading to an arrest and conviction in the murder. Forty-five-year-old Angela Summers Angeles Summers in Indianapolis. Mail carrier was fatally shot while she was delivering mail on Denny Street in Indianapolis e side on Monday Indianapolis Metro Police Department received the call about person. Shot Dinnie street just before four. Pm On Monday. Andrew was taken to hospital where she later succumbed to her wounds. Angel was shot in the chest on her route outside of home that the post office had stopped delivering mail to do the problems with residences dogs. Paul Toms the President of the National Association of Letter Carriers Indianapolis Local Branch thirty nine told W I S H news aid quote. There's an issue with dogs at the residence and you give three letters and on the third one. We curtail the mail. The Post Office stopped delivering mail to the address. Two weeks earlier requiring the residents to pick up their mail themselves at the Post Office people who lived on Summers route described. There's always smiling and said that she brought dog treats for their pets. One of the residents Angeles Summers route. Aaron Oliver told news eight quote. We'd seen her basically every day that we've been living here. She would pet the dogs everything. She was a really nice person. Oliver was aware that his neighbors male had been curtailed quote but being shot by somebody because they couldn't get their mail. No I couldn't even think could happen. Any Annapolis Metro. Police arrested a suspect in the shooting just after ten pm on Tuesday the suspect's name is not been released. The United States Postal Service is offering a fifty thousand dollar reward for information leading to an arrest and conviction in the case local branch president. Paul Tom's told NBC News. Twenty six quote. I want them caught and brought to justice. She was just doing your job like she's done every day. Since becoming a carrier I started in nineteen seventy three and this is the first death violence of any type of. We've had to an Indianapolis Post Officer. Why how could it happen? She was a wonderful wonderful person. The killing of a postal carrier in the white of duty maybe prosecuted as federal fence the Indianapolis Metro Police. Fbi and Postal Service or carrying out the investigation. Our next story takes us to Washington state the Seattle Times reports that a thirteen year old is suspected of shooting and killing thirty five year old son Ali Hassan on one hundred and fifty second street last Tuesday night. According to court documents the suspect told investigators that he committed the act because he was depressed and because he just felt like doing it. The police claim that the suspect whose name is being withheld due to his age sauce on walking along one hundred fifty second street and followed him for almost a block before pulling out a gun and shooting the victim in the back of the head. A song was shot as he walked near the Highland Performing Arts Center at about nine ten PM. A neighbor called nine one one according to Sergeant Ryan Abbott a spokesman for the King County Sheriff's office quote. The call was that they heard a gunshot and they saw someone lying on the ground. Emergency Medical Services transported the victim to harborview medical center where he sadly passed away his injuries two days later according to investigators the suspect fled the scene on foot running through an apartment complex to seek shelter at a friend's house per core documents. He knocked on the window and showed him the gun but scared when he heard sirens and ran away before his friend had time to Letterman. The friendly told police about this incident. Surveillance footage supplied key evidence to suspect the shooting as a captured. The suspect making his way from a transit center to the location shooting. Took place and then back according to Sergeant Abbott. There were able to follow the suspect from the Transit Center. All the way to where the victim was shot. Investigators learned that the suspect had been living with his former girlfriend. The owner of the residents told law enforcement that the suspect left the home on the morning of April twenty first and hadn't been seen since she added that her gun disappeared the same time as the suspect on Friday night. The suspect was arrested while walking around and written according to court documents during his police interview. The suspect quote admitted shooting the victim because he was depressed and felt like he didn't kill anyone he would just kill himself. And because he just felt like doing it sergeant. Abbott told K. I. M. News Twenty Nine. The Hassan was very likely ran. Victim Quote. It's really sad when you think about it. Just the entire picture. Somebody's life was taken a thirty five year old male and just the fact that the suspect is thirteen years old. It's very tragic tragic story. The victim never met this guy. DidN'T SAY ANYTHING TO HIM. Didn't even know it was coming. The suspect is being held at youth detention facility. He's not been charged because prosecutors are still deciding whether or not he will be charged as an adult. The next story comes from Texas. Authorities are searching for twenty year old soldier. Vanessa Qian who disappeared from her post at Fort Hood army base last Wednesday leaving all her personal belongings behind the United States. Army Criminal Investigation. Command is offering a fifteen thousand dollar reward for information leading to her whereabouts. Private First Class of Houston was last seen in the parking lot of her army barracks at around one PM on Wednesday April. Twenty second her car keys room key wallet and ID. Cards related discovered in the armory room where she had worked earlier that day. When Keane was last seen she was wearing Pale purple leggings. A black T. shirt and black shoes. The Austin American Statesman reported that Morgan Vanessa. Sister had a text conversation with her the night before she disappeared. Margaret told a statesman. She didn't notice anything. Amiss and the her sisters talked about our plan to buy a new car. Vanessa's old car was left behind the base a wide ranging search of the base and the nearby areas didn't yield any results. The circumstances around Jean's disappearance have given rise to rumors about possible foul play inside the base. Some of which attempt to link gains disappearance with the two dozen team death of another female soldier on the base on. March twenty ninth to nineteen thirty five year old specialist Erica. Atkinson was found unresponsive at her post. Atkinson Chaplain's assistant was taken to the Carl R Darnall Army Medical Center where she was pronounced dead at the time. The Army Criminal Investigation Command spokesman. Chris Gray said they were unable to rule out foul play completely encased quote. I can tell you that at this point in the investigation. We don't have any indication of foul play but haven't completely ruled out. It's not clear how the investigation into Atkinson's death preceded after the break police in Arizona have evidence that a man in his stepdaughter who were reported missing last week or likely dead did now for our final story of the day. Police in Chino Valley Arizona. Said they have evidence that David baton and his stepdaughter Lisa. Landry who were reported missing last week are thought to be seized. The third person reported missing baton. Landry Landry's boyfriend Mitchell. Ming's has been located and taken into custody in Iowa. Police considered a person of interest on the debts forty-five-year-old Baton twenty-eight-year-old Landry twenty-four-year-old Meetings. Were less on the afternoon of Sunny April nineteenth. They were reported missing three days later on Tuesday. The twenty-first on April twenty second officers searched Benz home and discovered evidence of foul play which led them to declare that the three had vanished. Under mysterious circumstances. Police alerted the public. That the three maybe driving landry's blue two thousand thirteen. Subaru Forester and warned people to stay away from the trio if they spotted them as they were considered armed and dangerous following up on the evidence discovered at the residence on April Twenty Fifth and Twenty. Sixth police conducted thorough search of the sides of highway eighty nine. No people or vehicles were discovered but the search did turn up baton and Landry cell phones. This week they announced they have evidence to indicate the battening landry dead however according to some outlets it remains unclear. If the evidence of death pertains the both of them are only one on Monday. April twenty seventh United States marshals arrested Mitchell meeks residents in Waterloo Iowa according to the Waterloo searfoss courier minx was arrested on outstanding warrants for parole violation. Which was filed on April? First MEEKS who moved to Arizona from Iowa was sentenced to more than two years in prison on a federal weapons possession charge stemming from a two thousand seventeen traffic stop in Waterloo. His supervised release was transferred to Arizona in October. Two Thousand Nineteen investigators from Chino Valley. County are traveling to Waterloo Iowa to question about the whereabouts Baton Landry authorities continue the search for baton and Landry. That's it for today's episode of Sword and Skill Daily. We'll see you back here tomorrow. And until then stay safe sort. Scale daily is an incongruity media. Production your host Ryan Williams Research and writing by Barack executive producer. Mike Day if you like the show subscribing Livas review if you bought the rights with Becker suggestions use the email address daily. It's WINDSCALE DOT com. Do you need something to listen to next. We'll check out this other show from cast media. Hi I'm Jacob Tula I'm Jamie BB and we're your host of circle stocking in each episode. We're going to bring you a new stalking case covering the INS and outs of each stocker. Their victims and their shoulders. You Know Weapon. What is is it a gun nine. She hated me so much. She found my stepmother Brendan her and then was caught. Making a plan to attack me with my stepmother he shows up to my gallery and he's wearing a space suit. He looks at me and he goes. You look like Jessica Rabbit Lou from the Fifth Element and then he looks very intensely and he goes and I'm GonNa Stock You. We hear about the cops not really do anything or not. Really caring about the crime stock. There's a lot of shame for the Predator. Who'd been stalking me for. Forty four years was starting to really interfere with my life and my freedom a lot more than he had been one of those random messages on my damn it was like. I'm coming and I'll see you on this date. I was responding to this and then it was like a verification of flake offset all of a sudden. I hear knock at the door so I opened the door. And there they fix. Put something gentleman standing in front of me with a backpack and he looks at me and he said. Are you Erin kind of panicked? Because this isn't Larry he followed me to my workplace and he grabbed me. Push man the dorm and was I. I'm block me. Unblock may be blocked me. I'm Jacob Tula. I'm Jamie be strictly talking mayors on January twenty third. We subscribe on Apple podcasts. Spotify or wherever you listen to podcasts and like God. This person will stop texting me. Stop calling me just keeps showing up everywhere. Then that's when it's like you're like Oh shit.

Landry Landry Angela Summers Angeles Summers Arizona Indianapolis United States Sergeant Ryan Abbott Post Office United States Postal Service Iowa Mitchell meeks Ryan Williams Texas Ali Hassan Washington Indianapolis Metro Police Depa Jacob Tula Atkinson Waterloo Indianapolis Metro Police stalking